Video: World Net Daily Columnist Supports Uganda Death Penalty for Gays

Religion • Views: 5,365

World Net Daily columnist Molotov Mitchell comes right out and defends Uganda’s bill to make homosexuality a capital offense — because “God created the death penalty” for gays. This caveman even quotes Martin Luther King as some kind of twisted support for his “kill the gays” rant.

This has to be one of the stupidest, most hateful videos I’ve seen yet. Apart from the obnoxious rock music soundtrack, how is this different from the Taliban?

Youtube Video

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339 comments
1 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:49:09pm

So once again...

Need any more evidence that the far religious right and the dominionist types are evil?

2 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:51:00pm
Apart from the obnoxious rock music soundtrack, how is this different from the Taliban?

He lives in our country.

I'd like to add, from another source:


In his June 10 video, Mitchell appeared to endorse the killing of abortion doctor George Tiller, asserting he "killed babies for money" and claiming: "Two weeks ago, George Tiller was killed in a fourth-trimester abortion, a lethal lead injection."
3 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:51:02pm

God loves everyone.

4 Gus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:54:02pm

He tries to justify the event in Uganda by stating that our founding fathers were and would have been in agreement with this law. I highly doubt this but "for the record" our founding fathers were wrong on many accounts. This is the 21st century not the mid 18th century.

5 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:54:48pm

re: #4 Gus 802

NONO! THE WILL OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS IS INVIOLATE!

6 HAL2010  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:55:02pm

Abhorrent doesn't even begin to describe the video.

For the record, this is what the actual bill would accomplish:

7 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:55:03pm

re: #1 ludwigvanquixote

So once again...

Need any more evidence that the far religious right and the dominionist types are evil?

No... this is nuts.

8 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:55:58pm

Our founding fathers made homosexuality a capital offense? I can't seem to find that in the constitution...

9 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:56:03pm

WND has dropped the Birther issue. Their front page used to be solid Birther articles but now there's not a single article about it. A few Counter-Jihad type stories and generic Tea Party crap but no birther stories.

10 Gus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:56:06pm

re: #5 windsagio

NONO! THE WILL OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS IS INVIOLATE!

I wonder if Molotov Mitchel would use the same argument to defend slavery.

11 jaunte  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:56:26pm

What a jerk. I wonder if this is the King Mwanga he's talking about.

Married Life and Offspring
He is on record as having married sixteen wives and fathering seven sons and four daughters including Kabaka Daudi Chwa II, Kabaka of Buganda, who reigned between 1897 and 1939.
Reign
Mwanga saw the greatest threat to his rule coming from the Christian missionaries who had gradually penetrated Buganda. His father had played-off the three religions; Catholics, Protestants and Muslims against each other and thus balanced the influence of the colonial powers that were backing each group. Mwanga II took a much more aggressive approach, expelling missionaries and insisting that Christian converts abandon their faith or face death.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
12 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:57:23pm

re: #8 Thanos

Our founding fathers made homosexuality a capital offense? I can't seem to find that in the constitution...

It's interesting to see the mythical history the right wing is inventing these days. They might as well be talking about Atlantis.

13 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:58:11pm

First, the graphics make me thank of Grand Theft Auto 4.

Second "god created the death penalty" Wow.... I really just can't find the words... I mean I know we humans are pretty stupid, but isn't our history pretty much one long string of us killing each other for some offense or other? I don't think we needed any help to figure out the idea of killing those we don't like...

WAIT WAIT WAIT!

Okay show me where the Founding Father's made Homosexuality a crime punishable by death!

"They don't want to kill the homosexuals..." Mighty big claim there pal. Be sort of like saying "The Spanish Inquisition didn't want to kill the Jews, it just wanted them to them to stop practicing the Jewish religion.... wouldn't it?

Oh by the way, nice job lumping Nazi Germany in with "other socialist regimes" take a liberal fascism point.


"Ugandans are making the same decisions that our founding fathers did so long ago..." I suppose that means we should start supporting some new nation that passes a law about its okay for them to own slaves then, right?


By the way if anyone was wondering where I was recently, I've come down with a nasty stomach virus that I'm still not over, now then if you'll excuse me after watching those three minutes I'm going to need my plastic vomit bucket for the third time today....

14 freetoken  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:58:12pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

Mitchell is of course a birther, and Keyes fan:

15 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:58:32pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Well you know, there were alot of Masons in that group....


Its all Illuminated conspiracy!

16 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:58:53pm

And unfortunately, we also can find the rhetoric among Muslims and Jews. I think all religions should start reexamining their positions on this and consider the wider implications.

17 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 5:59:00pm

re: #13 jamesfirecat

Feel better, man. Fluids and bad TV.

18 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:00:03pm

re: #4 Gus 802

He tries to justify the event in Uganda by stating that our founding fathers were and would have been in agreement with this law. I highly doubt this but "for the record" our founding fathers were wrong on many accounts. This is the 21st century not the mid 18th century.

Was there a death penalty for homosexual behavior in the early U.S.? I know it was extremely rare in the colonial period.

19 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:00:16pm

re: #15 windsagio

Well you know, there were alot of Masons in that group...

Its all Illuminated conspiracy!

Who controls the British Crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!

20 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:01:06pm

Hey, this is an appropriate thread for something my friend wrote. He's a gay man who's partner just died. He's also one of the nicest men I've ever met.

When I went to the hospital the day after, it was hard enough from keeping from crying. After all, that's where I saw him last - already dead.

So I get to the counter and tell the person that my spouse had died there the night before, and I needed to pick up his effects. The was an awkward pause, and I was asked to wait.

Ten minutes later someone came out and informed me that while they had a garbage bag with his things on it, it wasn't possible to release it to me because I wasn't next of kin. Even though I had signed the death certificate, and looked into organ donation, etc., for some reason taking home his shoes, and the clothes they had ripped off of him in the ER was out of the question unless I could have someone who WAS part of his family either come to the hospital (they're all on the West Coast) or overnight a notarized letter authorizing me to take possession.

"But I have a civil union certificate." I said. They apologized, but despite that, because of FEDERAL regulations concerning patient confidentiality, and since he wasn't able to sign the requisite paperwork when he was admitted to the ER, they weren't able to recognize any legal relationship outside of what the Federal Government did.

Of course eventually it was all sorted out and I was able to get the garbage bag with his stuff (through the funeral director who - for some reason - COULD get his effects and give them to me).

So - every time now when some farkING IDIOT says that gays already have the "same rights" as heterosexuals, or that "civil unions are good enough", I have to restrain myself from getting extremely violent.

21 Gus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:01:12pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

Was there a death penalty for homosexual behavior in the early U.S.? I know it was extremely rare in the colonial period.

I'd have to search but I doubt it.

22 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:01:23pm

re: #17 Obdicut

Feel better, man. Fluids and bad TV.

Bravo reality shows. Especially if you happen on a marathon.

23 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:01:28pm

Things Dominionists hate:

The Fourteenth amendment
Article VI
The First Amendment

24 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:02:16pm

oh,.... and Gay people

25 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:02:18pm

Unless Mitchell is without sin, he needs to drop the stone.

26 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:02:38pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes.

[Link: digitalcommons.unl.edu...]

But a lot of other practices were also illegal.

It just fell under sodomy, in general.

27 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:02:57pm

re: #25 MandyManners

Unless Mitchell is without sin, he needs to drop the stone.

I'm without sin! Though, I prefer to lob snowballs...
;)

28 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:02:59pm

re: #23 Thanos

Things Dominionists hate:

The Fourteenth amendment
Article VI
The First Amendment

The United States of America.

29 Gus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:02:59pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

Was there a death penalty for homosexual behavior in the early U.S.? I know it was extremely rare in the colonial period.

Here's something:

Homosexuals and the Death Penalty in Colonial America

30 Gus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:03:21pm

re: #26 Obdicut

Yes.

[Link: digitalcommons.unl.edu...]

But a lot of other practices were also illegal.

It just fell under sodomy, in general.

My Google-Fu is slow today. ;)

31 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:03:26pm

re: #17 Obdicut

Feel better, man. Fluids and bad TV.

Fluids no problem, school was even willing to give me some Gatorade powder so that I'd be able to get some more calories into my diet as I can only manage to get about 750 worth of them in solid food down.

Also been watching my way through the fifth through 12th Season of the Simpsons on DVD....

Nearly done with most of the episodes I want to see though, may be time to switch over to Spin City...

32 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:04:08pm

re: #21 Gus 802

Are we talking colonial or post-colonial, early US?

The document I linked above is colonial only, I believe. It's very good, though.

33 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:04:42pm

I stand with the gays...it's just the principle of the thing...
come get some you assholes...ever seen a really pissed off homo?

34 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:04:59pm

re: #8 Thanos

Our founding fathers made homosexuality a capital offense? I can't seem to find that in the constitution...

That's because people ignore what happened when these gentlemen went back to their home states and what laws they helped enact. Never fits the narrative. Reality burns sometimes.

35 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:05:05pm

re: #31 jamesfirecat

....may be time to switch over to Spin City...

Good Lord! Call a doctor! He's delirious with fever!

36 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:05:46pm

re: #35 Guanxi88

Good Lord! Call a doctor! He's delirious with fever!

What's wrong with Spin City? It's the first two seasons with Micheal J. Fox!

37 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:05:47pm

re: #29 Gus 802

Here's something:

Homosexuals and the Death Penalty in Colonial America

This is why Dominionists hate the 14th. Equal protection, etc. enabled federal laws to overcome state statutes like those.

38 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:06:57pm

re: #36 jamesfirecat

What's wrong with Spin City? It's the first two seasons with Micheal J. Fox!

Okay, so long as you stay with the early runs, it should be ok.

I;d suggest Newsradio afterwards. Great show.

39 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:07:37pm

re: #26 Obdicut

Yes.

[Link: digitalcommons.unl.edu...]

But a lot of other practices were also illegal.

It just fell under sodomy, in general.

You know, our kids are going to find it incredible that we remember a time when sodomy was illegal (Hello, Lawrence v TX!) and that gay people couldn't get married or openly serve in the military.
They're going to look back on all this the way we do Jim Crow, or women not having the vote.

40 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:08:01pm

re: #20 Obdicut

Hey, this is an appropriate thread for something my friend wrote. He's a gay man who's partner just died. He's also one of the nicest men I've ever met.

That is very sad.

41 zora  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:08:06pm

another idiot with his own twisted gospel

Legislator: Disabled kids are God's punishment (Audio added)
[Link: www.newsleader.com...]

42 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:08:20pm

I've watched this video a few times now and if I didn't know that it was a douchebag from WND in it, I'd think it was a parody like the Landover Baptist Church. Mitchell is out of his fucking mind.

43 RogueOne  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:08:31pm

re: #39 iceweasel

You know, our kids are going to find it incredible that we remember a time when sodomy was illegal (Hello, Lawrence v TX!) and that gay people couldn't get married or openly serve in the military.
They're going to look back on all this the way we do Jim Crow, or women not having the vote.

The "good ol' days" always sucked.

44 Gus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:09:39pm

Here's one from the pre-Revolution era:

Capital Lawes of New-England, as they stand now in force in the Common-Wealth. By the Court, in the Years 1641, 1642.

Capital Lawes, Established within the Jurisdiction of Massachusetts.

1. If any man after legall conviction, shall have or worship any other God, but the Lord God, he shall be put to death. Deut. 13:6, &c and 17:2, &c. Exodus 22:30.
2. If any man or woman be a Witch, that is, hath consulteth with a familiar spirit, they shall be put to death.
3. If any persons shall blaspheme the Name of God the Father, Sonne, or Holy Ghost, with direct, expresse, presumptuous, or high-handed blasphemy, or shall curse God in the like manner, he shall be put to death.
4. [Murder by premeditated hatred]
5. [Murder by anger or passion]
6. [Murder by guile or poisoning]
7. If man or woman shall lye with any beast, or bruit creature, by carnall copulation, they shall surely be put to death; and the beast shall be slaine, and buried. Lev. 20:15, 16.
8. If a man lyeth with mankinde, as he lyeth with a woman, both of them have committed abomination, they both shall surely be put to death. Lev. 20:13.
9. If any person committeth adultery with a married, or espoused wife, the Adulterer and the Adulteresse, shall surely be put to death. Lev. 20:10, 18, 20; Deut. 22:23, 24.
10. If any man shall unlawfully have carnall copulation with any woman childe under ten years old, either with, or without consent, he shall be put to death.
11. If any man shall forcibly, and without consent, ravish any maid or woman that is lawfully married or contracted, he shall be put to death. Deut. 22:25, &c.
12. If any man shall ravish any maid or single woman (committing carnall copulation with her by force, against her will) that is above the age of ten yeares; he shall be either punished with death, or with some other grievous punishment, according to the circumstances, at the discretion of the Judges: . . .

45 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:10:02pm

I just laugh at the rightwing intrusion into with their religious qwackery...and their dissolve the Fed, clean your guns macho blather doesn't move me so much...but if it's an out and out war on homosexuality, then that really pisses me off enough to go out and yell at somebody or worse....these are our brothers and sisters and it's nobody's business but theirs...that's what makes me the most angry

46 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:10:12pm

re: #42 ArchangelMichael

Why is a dude on WND taking the first name of an arch-commie asshole, anyway?

What's up with that?

47 Gus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:10:34pm

Pennsylvania Law, 1706:

. . . if any person or persons shall be convicted of sodomy and buggery, provided he or they be at the age of discretion, and consenting thereunto [he or they] shall suffer imprisonment at hard labor during life, and shall be whipped at the discretion of the magistrates (not exceeding thrity-nine lashes at one time) every three months during the first year after conviction.

Source: James T. Mitchell and Hnery Flanders, eds., The Statutes at Large of Pennsylvania from 1682 to 1801 (Harrisburg, 1896), vol. 2, p. 184.

48 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:10:59pm

re: #39 iceweasel

You know, our kids are going to find it incredible that we remember a time when sodomy was illegal (Hello, Lawrence v TX!) and that gay people couldn't get married or openly serve in the military.
They're going to look back on all this the way we do Jim Crow, or women not having the vote.

Huh... will there ever be a time when "camp gay" (if done by a straight person) will be considered as offensive as Black Face?

Just throwing a question out there not sure if .... I mean it'd be "interesting" (I can't think up a more appropriate word so it'll have to do) if there comes a time when we consider Will and Grace is viewed in the same light as Songs of the South....

49 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:11:20pm

re: #41 zora

another idiot with his own twisted gospel

Legislator: Disabled kids are God's punishment (Audio added)
[Link: www.newsleader.com...]

He's also the prick who, along with Gov Gilmore, tried to intervene in a vegetative state case at Annaburg Manor. He failed.
*Spits @ Marhsall's feet*

50 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:11:23pm

re: #39 iceweasel

You know, our kids are going to find it incredible that we remember a time when sodomy was illegal (Hello, Lawrence v TX!) and that gay people couldn't get married or openly serve in the military.
They're going to look back on all this the way we do Jim Crow, or women not having the vote.

Maybe not... I have a feeling this is going to hang on longer than racial issues. There seems to be something hard wired in a lot of people that just seems to make them say and do really stupid thing in regards to homosexuality.

I hope you're right, but I don't see it shaking out as smoothly as some other issues.

51 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:11:27pm

re: #46 Obdicut

Why is a dude on WND taking the first name of an arch-commie asshole, anyway?

What's up with that?

Reverse nickname? Like calling a bald guy Curly?

52 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:11:32pm

somebody should tell mitchell that the bible also forbids tattoos, like the one on his arm.

i love how conservative christian fundamentalists just pick and choose whatever they want from the bible to justify anything, while ignoring whatever they want as well.

here's another one of his too,

53 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:11:45pm

re: #48 jamesfirecat

This question is even more baffling than your average question, James. And that's saying something.

54 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:12:06pm

re: #46 Obdicut

Why is a dude on WND taking the first name of an arch-commie asshole, anyway?

What's up with that?

Maybe he thinks its edgy.

55 freetoken  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:12:13pm

re: #47 Gus 802

Gary North has often commented on how the Christianized colonies' beliefs were overwhelmed by the Deist US Constitution.

It's part of a long (and winding) argument in favor of Theocracy, and how the Confederacy was a better way to go.

56 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:13:05pm

Won't watch it. Don't want him getting another hit from LGF...probably just give the fucker an erection.

57 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:13:24pm

re: #53 Obdicut

This question is even more baffling than your average question, James. And that's saying something.

Trying to run on having only eaten about 1000 calories yesterday will do that.....

58 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:13:28pm

re: #48 jamesfirecat

It is a really good question.

A corollary of it is 'are we looking at a time when the 'flaming' dialect and mannerisms will be a thing of the past as well?'

59 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:13:49pm

re: #55 freetoken

Gary North has often commented on how the Christianized colonies' beliefs were overwhelmed by the Deist US Constitution.

It's part of a long (and winding) argument in favor of Theocracy, and how the Confederacy was a better way to go.

The bill of Rights could be trumped by local law until the 14th - that's why the dominionists and neoconfederates hate it so much.

60 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:13:58pm

re: #48 jamesfirecat

Huh... will there ever be a time when "camp gay" (if done by a straight person) will be considered as offensive as Black Face?

Just throwing a question out there not sure if ... I mean it'd be "interesting" (I can't think up a more appropriate word so it'll have to do) if there comes a time when we consider Will and Grace is viewed in the same light as Songs of the South...

Ah... I think the gay community saw Will and Grace as a very positive depiction of gay and straight issues. What makes you think there was a problems with the show. Maybe I'm missing something.

61 Racer X  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:14:17pm
62 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:16:06pm

re: #54 MandyManners

Maybe he thinks its edgy.

And rasputny kasla was taken (phonetic pronunciation for 'goat fucker')

63 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:16:11pm

re: #48 jamesfirecat

Huh... will there ever be a time when "camp gay" (if done by a straight person) will be considered as offensive as Black Face?

Just throwing a question out there not sure if ... I mean it'd be "interesting" (I can't think up a more appropriate word so it'll have to do) if there comes a time when we consider Will and Grace is viewed in the same light as Songs of the South...

And I think there is gay people playing straight people all the time... it's called acting.

64 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:16:41pm

re: #59 Thanos

The bill of Rights could be trumped by local law until the 14th - that's why the dominionists and neoconfederates hate it so much.

equal protection under the law? even for blacks? pffft


(yet they would love to see the 2nd amend. be incorporated by the 14th)

65 Aye Pod  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:17:24pm

Pope Benedict continues his crusade to modernise the Catholic Church and guide it to a more enlightened place:

The fires of Hell are real and eternal, Pope warns

Hell is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, the Pope has said.

Addressing a parish gathering in a northern suburb of Rome, Benedict XVI said that in the modern world many people, including some believers, had forgotten that if they failed to “admit blame and promise to sin no more”, they risked “eternal damnation — the Inferno”.

Hell “really exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more”, he said.

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

66 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:17:48pm

re: #63 Walter L. Newton

That's a fallacy kind of. WUB and his partner are great friends of mine. They're very gay in the 'I like to have gay sex' way, but you could never ever pick 'em out in a crowd, and they're not 'acting' either.

67 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:18:12pm

re: #65 Jimmah

My question is always "Where?"

68 Digital Display  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:18:16pm

re: #39 iceweasel

You know, our kids are going to find it incredible that we remember a time when sodomy was illegal (Hello, Lawrence v TX!) and that gay people couldn't get married or openly serve in the military.
They're going to look back on all this the way we do Jim Crow, or women not having the vote.


We have raised 5 kids...I can only hope I have given them a vision of the future...A man or woman that stands upon a foundation of the best we are..
Our best Angles...My beautiful children...I am very proud of them Ice...

69 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:18:24pm

re: #1 ludwigvanquixote

So once again...

Need any more evidence that the far religious right and the dominionist types are evil?

Just the far right?

70 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:18:27pm

re: #60 Walter L. Newton

Ah... I think the gay community saw Will and Grace as a very positive depiction of gay and straight issues. What makes you think there was a problems with the show. Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm not saying that there was a problem with the show I liked it as well.

I just recall reading at some point how the show ended up hiring Sean Hayes to play Jack after turning down someone who was actually Gay because they weren't able to act "gay enough" to suit them.

I'm just wondering if, in the future will there be a comparison made between the way Sean Hayes acted and "Black Face" given that both of them involve pretending to be something your not (race or sexual orientation) and then playing up the stereotypical aspects of that particular group.

I'm not wondering how the Gay Community of the 20 and 21rst century saw Will and Grace, I'm wondering how the Gay Community of the 22 and 23rd will....

71 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:19:10pm

very enlightening....
Hell is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire,

I don't take this stuff too seriously

72 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:19:28pm

Speaking of crazy-ass goat fuckers:

Geneva:

Today the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights has
confirmed that American attorney Dr. Orly Taitz has applied for urgent
action under the mandate for human rights defenders.

Dr. Taitz, a well known Constitutional attorney, has been under increasing attack in the United States from groups and individuals opposed to her legal actions challenging the Constitutional qualifications of Barrack Hussein Obama to hold the office of President of the United States.

The California attorney has been the victim of death threats, vandalism, false complaints, and a suspected assassination attempt. Her reports to law enforcement and the judiciary have been ignored.

This office has been retained by Dr. Taitz to support her efforts for a UN investigation of her claims.

For more information contact:

Dr. Jonathan Levy
Attorney
1629 K Street NW Suite 300
Washington DC 20006 USA

O'RLY?

73 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:19:43pm

re: #70 jamesfirecat

I'm not saying that there was a problem with the show I liked it as well.

I just recall reading at some point how the show ended up hiring Sean Hayes to play Jack after turning down someone who was actually Gay because they weren't able to act "gay enough" to suit them.

I'm just wondering if, in the future will there be a comparison made between the way Sean Hayes acted and "Black Face" given that both of them involve pretending to be something your not (race or sexual orientation) and then playing up the stereotypical aspects of that particular group.

I'm not wondering how the Gay Community of the 20 and 21rst century saw Will and Grace, I'm wondering how the Gay Community of the 22 and 23rd will...

By then, science will have advanced to allow humans to reproduce asexually.

/thanks to those goddamn furries. :q

74 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:20:03pm

re: #67 Obdicut

My question is always "Where?"

Detroit maybe?

75 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:20:43pm

re: #72 darthstar

lol

76 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:21:36pm

re: #65 Jimmah

Pope Benedict continues his crusade to modernise the Catholic Church and guide it to a more enlightened place:

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

Ah yes. Here's Pope Benedict in December:


Pope Benedict said Monday that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behaviour was just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction.

The Church "should also protect man from the destruction of himself. A sort of ecology of man is needed," the pontiff said in a holiday address to the Curia, the Vatican's central administration.

in October, a leading Vatican official called homosexuality "a deviation, an irregularity, a wound."

The pope said humanity needed to "listen to the language of creation" to understand the intended roles of man and woman. He compared behavior beyond traditional heterosexual relations as "a destruction of God's work."

77 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:21:57pm

re: #75 SpaceJesus

I think this is just a pre-cursor to her suing the UN for not taking her seriously.

78 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:21:58pm

re: #72 darthstar

Speaking of crazy-ass goat fuckers:

O'RLY?

Ya rly.

79 Donna Ballard  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:21:58pm

re: #71 albusteve

very enlightening...
Hell is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire,

I don't take this stuff too seriously

Thank goodness I'm mostly Buddhist, we don't believe in hell or damnation. When we die we go to school and learn what we did wrong and when we have learned our lesson were reborn to try and get it right.

80 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:22:03pm

re: #65 Jimmah

Pope Benedict continues his crusade to modernise the Catholic Church and guide it to a more enlightened place:

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

Good find, but you need to know that I agree with Pope Benedict. Hell is real, and it is eternal. It's not intolerant to say so, and belief in Hell is part of established Christian theology,

81 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:22:43pm

re: #66 windsagio

This is apropos:

Real gay people:

82 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:22:54pm

re: #73 laZardo

By then, science will have advanced to allow humans to reproduce asexually.

/thanks to those goddamn furries. :q

How do furries lead to asexual reproduction?

I can see furries lead to genetic engineering to the point where we give up buying clothes and start shaving individual patterns in our now much more glorious fur, or give us prehensile tails, but I don't get how furies lead to asexual reproduction.

I may be thinking about this too hard, but I just don't get the joke....

83 Marcus Dracon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:23:08pm

Ugandans are basing their Death Penalty for Gays on a bunch of fairy tales, whack jobs like that video's narrator.

84 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:23:24pm

re: #33 albusteve

I stand with the gays...it's just the principle of the thing...
come get some you assholes...ever seen a really pissed off homo?

Yeah. Mark Bingham, a great American.

85 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:23:27pm

These are Pope Benedict XVI's exact words from that sermon in a parish near Rome -

Hell is a “state of eternal separation from God”, to be understood “symbolically rather than physically”.

Nothing bad here. Nothing medieval here. I like this pope.

86 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:24:47pm

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

Good find, but you need to know that I agree with Pope Benedict. Hell is real, and it is eternal. It's not intolerant to say so, and belief in Hell is part of established Christian theology,


so what about the Bushmen that never had a chance to know Jesus or submit to God?...what happens to them?...are just fucked by circumstance?

87 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:25:00pm

re: #85 keloyd

He gave the sermon in English?

88 Marcus Dracon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:25:01pm

re: #84 Olsonist

Yeah. Mark Bingham, a great American.

Hell a fictional place made up in a book of fairy tales to keep the mindless religo-zombies toeing the party line.

89 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:25:26pm

re: #82 jamesfirecat

How do furries lead to asexual reproduction?

I can see furries lead to genetic engineering to the point where we give up buying clothes and start shaving and dying individual patterns in our now much more glorious and multicolored fur, or give us prehensile tails, but I don't get how furies lead to asexual reproduction.

I may be thinking about this too hard, but I just don't get the joke...

I know a few people with...shall we say, fursonas that are fully-functional in both genders.

90 Donna Ballard  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:25:29pm

re: #85 keloyd

These are Pope Benedict XVI's exact words from that sermon in a parish near Rome -

Hell is a “state of eternal separation from God”, to be understood “symbolically rather than physically”.

Nothing bad here. Nothing medieval here. I like this pope.

He sounds like a very enlightened man and a good choice for Pope in these days and times.

91 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:25:45pm

re: #85 keloyd

These are Pope Benedict XVI's exact words from that sermon in a parish near Rome -

Hell is a “state of eternal separation from God”, to be understood “symbolically rather than physically”.

Nothing bad here. Nothing medieval here. I like this pope.

So...It'll be no different than I feel now?

92 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:25:48pm

re: #84 Olsonist

Yeah. Mark Bingham, a great American.

and Pat Condell...look out!

93 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:25:52pm

re: #87 Obdicut

correction - an exact cut and paste of the quote that was likely translated.

94 Lidane  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:26:02pm

Between this video and the hand-wringing and rationalizations I've been seeing online for the jackass suicide flier here in Austin, it's been a rage inducing day.

Maybe this is a good time to start practicing some mediation techniques. Or maybe I'll just put on the iPod and drown everything out with some music for a while. =P

95 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:26:17pm

re: #48 jamesfirecat

But will gay men ever act in a way that is not campy? I've had gay friends that acted more camp around me the more comfortable they felt around me.
What's wrong with a gorgeous Drag Queen? Is that too camp?

96 mich-again  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:26:21pm

re: #74 albusteve

Detroit maybe?

Yeah, but by the time 2025 rolls around, and the world is running low on water, Detroit will look pretty good to people who thought it would be a good idea to move out into the middle of the desert thinking somehow water would get pumped out to their man-made oasis forever. Actually the D is probably the greenest ghetto around. Mother Nature quickly reclaims the lots people abandon.

97 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:26:24pm

re: #88 Marcus Dracon

Hell a fictional place made up in a book of fairy tales to keep the mindless religo-zombies toeing the party line.

I totally agree with you, but Mark Bingham was still a great American.

98 cronus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:26:34pm

re: #85 keloyd

These are Pope Benedict XVI's exact words from that sermon in a parish near Rome -

Hell is a “state of eternal separation from God”, to be understood “symbolically rather than physically”.

Nothing bad here. Nothing medieval here. I like this pope.

But I'll confess I still don't understand what that means.

99 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:26:45pm

re: #86 albusteve

man there are thousands of pages of text on that very issue. Its a great subject.

Essentially people usually say they either get a pass or go to the cool part of Hell (per Dante)

100 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:27:09pm

re: #88 Marcus Dracon

Hell a fictional place made up in a book of fairy tales to keep the mindless religo-zombies toeing the party line.

and coughing up their wealth...the Pope lives pretty good eh?

101 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:27:14pm

re: #79 Dragon_Lady

I'm a Human-League-ist.
I believe, I believe
what the old man said
andI know there is no lord above.
I believe in you,
I believe in me,
Though you know I believe in love.
I believe in truth though I lie a lot,
I can feel the pain from the push and shove,
no matter what you put me through
I still believe in love...
(I still have those lyrics memorized after all these years!)

102 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:27:48pm

re: #101 darthstar

oops...transposed an and and a though up there...

103 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:27:50pm

re: #101 darthstar

I'm a Human-League-ist.
I believe, I believe
what the old man said
andI know there is no lord above.
I believe in you,
I believe in me,
Though you know I believe in love.
I believe in truth though I lie a lot,
I can feel the pain from the push and shove,
no matter what you put me through
I still believe in love...
(I still have those lyrics memorized after all these years!)

[Video]

I thought you were a waitress in a cocktail bar...

104 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:27:51pm

re: #89 laZardo

I know a few people with...shall we say, fursonas that are fully-functional in both genders.

Damn it, why must there always be those people who make me feel ashamed to be a "furry" because I enjoy a catgirl fantasy now and again...

Apparently there's always another level of crazy....

105 Donna Ballard  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:28:03pm

re: #101 darthstar

I'm a Human-League-ist.
I believe, I believe
what the old man said
andI know there is no lord above.
I believe in you,
I believe in me,
Though you know I believe in love.
I believe in truth though I lie a lot,
I can feel the pain from the push and shove,
no matter what you put me through
I still believe in love...
(I still have those lyrics memorized after all these years!)

[Video]

Very nicely said! Upding for you!

106 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:28:35pm

re: #96 mich-again

Yeah, but by the time 2025 rolls around, and the world is running low on water, Detroit will look pretty good to people who thought it would be a good idea to move out into the middle of the desert thinking somehow water would get pumped out to their man-made oasis forever. Actually the D is probably the greenest ghetto around. Mother Nature quickly reclaims the lots people abandon.

Detroit!...an oasis!...you could be right, and I shouldn't be picking on Detroit

107 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:28:35pm

re: #96 mich-again

Yeah, but by the time 2025 rolls around, and the world is running low on water, Detroit will look pretty good to people who thought it would be a good idea to move out into the middle of the desert thinking somehow water would get pumped out to their man-made oasis forever. Actually the D is probably the greenest ghetto around. Mother Nature quickly reclaims the lots people abandon.

Just look at Pripyat.

108 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:28:43pm

Has a date been set for final args in the Prop 8 trial yet? Last I heard was "sometime in March"...

109 Donna Ballard  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:28:46pm

re: #103 laZardo

I thought you were a waitress in a cocktail bar...

LOL! LMAO! LOL! Funny! Very funny!

110 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:28:53pm

re: #81 Obdicut

really cool video :D

Its sad that the strongest thing that I got from it was that there was a big black bald guy called "Marcellus". Just like in the movie!!!

111 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:28:58pm

re: #104 jamesfirecat

Damn it, why must there always be those people who make me feel ashamed to be a "furry" because I enjoy a catgirl fantasy now and again...

Apparently there's always another level of crazy...

Catgirls ≠ furries.
;)

112 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:29:15pm

re: #104 jamesfirecat

A catgirl fantasy is not crazy, be it catgirl or catgirlboy.
Black leather looks great.

113 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:29:33pm

re: #88 Marcus Dracon

Don't diss Christianity like that. If you think Hell does not exist, simply say that. Don't fling insults.

114 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:29:53pm

re: #103 laZardo

I thought you were a waitress in a cocktail bar...

I was a bartender, though I did "wait" a few times when we had "ladies night" with male strippers when I was in college.

115 Marcus Dracon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:30:15pm

re: #97 Olsonist

I totally agree with you, but Mark Bingham was still a great American.

How odd I quoted something totally different, a glitch in the matrix.

Welcome to the Catholic Church one of the richest corporations in the World, has a vested interest in not allowing their followers to practice effective birth control, keeps the numbers up. Perpetuating the poverty cycle in doing so.

116 Racer X  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:30:16pm
117 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:30:22pm

re: #104 jamesfirecat

You haven't lived until you've sat in a hotel hallway sorting furry bondage portfolios for sale while bemused staff wander by, glance over, and then hurry away.


I have lived.

118 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:30:30pm

re: #104 jamesfirecat

Damn it, why must there always be those people who make me feel ashamed to be a "furry" because I enjoy a catgirl fantasy now and again...

Apparently there's always another level of crazy...

Catgirls != furries. I'm not sure if I have the full pic but there's a sort of "meter" that points out the distinction between nekomimi (lit. "cat ears," typical anime catgirls) and furries (i.e. anthro felines.)

119 mich-again  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:30:46pm

re: #89 laZardo

I know a few people with...shall we say, fursonas that are fully-functional in both genders.

You know not one, but a few? What are the odds of that? And how did you happen to find out that bit of trivia about them? Too weird. Are they all friends? Some kind of support group..

120 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:31:04pm

re: #118 laZardo

man I should dig WUB up again for this >

121 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:31:37pm

re: #118 laZardo

Catgirls != furries. I'm not sure if I have the full pic but there's a sort of "meter" that points out the distinction between nekomimi (lit. "cat ears," typical anime catgirls) and furries (i.e. anthro felines.)

This?

122 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:31:47pm

re: #119 mich-again

You know not one, but a few? What are the odds of that? And how did you happen to find out that bit of trivia about them? Too weird. Are they all friends? Some kind of support group..

Actually more like AIM buddies back from '02ish. It's why I moved to MSN these days. 0:

123 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:31:57pm

re: #108 Thanos

Has a date been set for final args in the Prop 8 trial yet? Last I heard was "sometime in March"...

That's the last I heard as well. However it's decided it's guaranteed that the other side will appeal.
I wish it had gotten more coverage, frankly, particularly the associations with the LDS and other churches.

124 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:32:01pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

Don't diss Christianity like that. If you think Hell does not exist, simply say that. Don't fling insults.

well the notion is so remarkable, it's hard to to goof on it

125 metrolibertarian  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:32:02pm

re: #52 SpaceJesus

I e-mailed him right after Andrew Sullivan first posted this in January, and he never responded.

126 Donna Ballard  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:32:23pm

re: #104 jamesfirecat

Damn it, why must there always be those people who make me feel ashamed to be a "furry" because I enjoy a catgirl fantasy now and again...

Apparently there's always another level of crazy...

Nothing wrong with a fantasy, it means your healthy and normal. Not crazy at all! :-)

127 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:32:55pm

re: #95 prairiefire

But will gay men ever act in a way that is not campy? I've had gay friends that acted more camp around me the more comfortable they felt around me.
What's wrong with a gorgeous Drag Queen? Is that too camp?

Well I'm just saying, take the particular example I gave of Sean Hayes playing Jack McFarland, a straight man playing a character whose "gayness is visible from space" in the "future" (for a given value of future) will this kind of thing ever be considered as offensive as Black Face? Is so why? If so why not?

I'm not saying it is or isn't, I'm just looking into the future and squinting to try and predict possible events based on past patterns....

128 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:33:02pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

Besides, the Bible doesn't tell fairy stories. Fairy stories are very straightforward and morally certain.

The Bible is rather more complex. Have someone read the book of Job and ask them what the fuck that was about. Always fun.

I'd like to mention my friend Robert Alter, who's done a new translation of the Torah, or, as the Christians call it, the first five books of the bible.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

129 Aye Pod  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:33:15pm

re: #76 iceweasel

Pope Benedict said Monday that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behaviour was just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction.

The Church "should also protect man from the destruction of himself. A sort of ecology of man is needed," the pontiff said in a holiday address to the Curia, the Vatican's central administration.

in October, a leading Vatican official called homosexuality "a deviation, an irregularity, a wound."

The pope said humanity needed to "listen to the language of creation" to understand the intended roles of man and woman. He compared behavior beyond traditional heterosexual relations as "a destruction of God's work."

Neanderthal stuff from the holy primate.

130 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:33:26pm

re: #114 darthstar

I was a bartender, though I did "wait" a few times when we had "ladies night" with male strippers when I was in college.

Well, you're only human.

[embedding disabled]

131 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:33:27pm

Evening lizards!

I would rather shove needles in my eyes than watch that video. There are some really sick people out there. Let's see if WND has the stones to fire his ass.

132 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:33:37pm

re: #98 cronus

I'll confess I'm not Catholic, but I've been around a lot of Catholicism, and it's pretty standard boilerplate theology. The Catholics got rid of the literal hellfire and brimstone imagery centuries ago. When some of us had the Reformation, they did their own bit of housecleaning within their Aegean stables.

Also, I think the Bushmen get a pass. Current consensus with the Catholics, afaik, is one must consciously reject the Church after its teachings are presented in a competent manner, then you go to hell. Current consensus adds that humanity should not speculate on who goes where because it's above our pay grade.

We must all be careful though - arguing over religion on the internet is almost as much of a taffy pull as arguing over AGW, imho.

133 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:33:39pm

re: #126 Dragon_Lady

Nothing wrong with a fantasy, it means your healthy and normal. Not crazy at all! :-)

Yes, but my cat just looked at his post and said, "Don't upding that guy."
/

134 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:33:40pm

re: #124 albusteve

well the notion is so remarkable, it's hard to to goof on it

Perhaps to you, Steve, but not to me. We just look at things from different angles.

135 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:33:45pm

re: #115 Marcus Dracon

Everything you said and priests get paid tax free, cuz religion's special.

136 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:34:08pm

re: #129 Jimmah

Neanderthal stuff from the holy primate.

uh oh!....haha!

137 darthstar  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:34:28pm

re: #130 laZardo

Copy the URL box, not the embed:

138 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:34:43pm

re: #118 laZardo

Catgirls != furries. I'm not sure if I have the full pic but there's a sort of "meter" that points out the distinction between nekomimi (lit. "cat ears," typical anime catgirls) and furries (i.e. anthro felines.)

Its the presence or lack of a muzzle last time I checked....

Not that I've ever checked of course.....

139 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:35:03pm

re: #95 prairiefire

maybe its a regional thing, but none of the Gays I know well (at least none of the younger ones) act campy at all. They're all depressingly mainstream >>

140 freetoken  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:35:10pm

re: #131 NJDhockeyfan

Let's see if WND has the stones to fire his ass.

"Fire" him? Why get rid of him when he is one of their favorites? This guy has been at it for quite a while. See the spin-off I put up.

141 Racer X  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:35:20pm

Woos

Trippy. Reminds me of this one time in 1982 where I . . . .

142 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:35:36pm

re: #139 windsagio

maybe its a regional thing, but none of the Gays I know well (at least none of the younger ones) act campy at all. They're all depressingly mainstream >>

too bad

143 cronus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:35:40pm

This thread on Scott Brown's Ning site has huge meltdown potential.

Comment by Relentless_Righteous_and_Right
Great. Another marxist. Case closed. Thanks, Scott. Guess we'll have to wait another 6 years to find a real Conservative to fill the dead kennedy's seat.
144 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:35:42pm

re: #137 darthstar

Copy the URL box, not the embed:

[Video]

I'm only human, born to make mistakes... o/~

145 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:36:01pm

re: #48 jamesfirecat

Huh... will there ever be a time when "camp gay" (if done by a straight person) will be considered as offensive as Black Face?

Um, I'm guessing no.

146 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:36:24pm

re: #132 keloyd

I'll confess I'm not Catholic

Be advised that many do not consider Benedict moderate at all.

He's no Pope John Paul II.

147 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:36:26pm

re: #142 albusteve

It makes for boring parties. A bunch of grunge and metal guys hanging around talking about games and music.

148 Lidane  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:36:29pm

re: #131 NJDhockeyfan

Let's see if WND has the stones to fire his ass.

Pfft. They'll promote him and give him a raise. WND are a bunch of bugfuck crazy loons.

149 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:36:43pm

re: #140 freetoken

"Fire" him? Why get rid of him when he is one of their favorites? This guy has been at it for quite a while. See the spin-off I put up.

I never read that site. Has Molotov Mitchell written anything as bad as this or has he crossed a new line?

150 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:36:47pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

But the difference is, DF, you're telling us to treat your faith with deference and we're not telling you to goof on the wacky books.

151 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:36:59pm

re: #123 iceweasel

That's the last I heard as well. However it's decided it's guaranteed that the other side will appeal.
I wish it had gotten more coverage, frankly, particularly the associations with the LDS and other churches.

Yeah, here's the latest news article I could find on it.

[Link: www.time.com...]

I also wish there were more coverage - it's become the first big civil rights case of this century, and one that will leave a lasting legacy no matter which way it goes in the final ruling by the supes.

152 Digital Display  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:37:05pm

re: #140 freetoken

"Fire" him? Why get rid of him when he is one of their favorites? This guy has been at it for quite a while. See the spin-off I put up.

A few years ago I checked out WND...I never went back..My BS meter pegged out that day

153 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:37:06pm

re: #149 NJDhockeyfan

This is standard. Read above what he wrote about Tiller's death.

154 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:37:16pm

re: #139 windsagio

maybe its a regional thing, but none of the Gays I know well (at least none of the younger ones) act campy at all. They're all depressingly mainstream >>

Where I am, the gays are very stereotypically emancipated and - more importantly - dreadfully out of shape. Seriously, they're either supermodel-anorexic or gloriously rotund.

155 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:37:21pm

re: #127 jamesfirecat

Is Sean Hayes straight? I think I see what your saying. Spike Lee doesn't like Tyler Perry's work because he thinks it is too much shuffle&jive, aw shucks stupid black people. And yet, Tyler Perry's movies and plays have a large black audience. I think it's more a matter of personal taste then painting with a broad cultural brush.

156 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:37:36pm

re: #148 Lidane

Pfft. They'll promote him and give him a raise. WND are a bunch of bugfuck crazy loons.


?...Haven't heard that one before.
:)

157 mich-again  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:38:19pm

re: #132 keloyd

We must all be careful though - arguing over religion on the internet is almost as much of a taffy pull as arguing over AGW, imho.

mmm taffy.

158 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:38:37pm

re: #154 laZardo

heh, Where are you at? Just for general comparison purposes :p

I know you know what WUB is really like, so he's a good comparison for what I"m talking about >>

159 cliffster  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:38:43pm

Hi, I'm cliffster. How are you?

160 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:38:50pm

re: #152 HoosierHoops

A few years ago I checked out WND...I never went back..My BS meter pegged out that day

I don't like the layout. It looks like one of those scam websites that gives you viruses.

161 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:38:57pm

re: #143 cronus

This thread on Scott Brown's Ning site has huge meltdown potential.

Wow just because he voted to allow the Senate to vote on the jobs bill?
Damn the democratic (but obviously Marxist) system....
/

162 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:39:00pm

watching the freeps tear each other to pieces arguing over whether joe stack was a leftist terrorist or a conservative freedom hero is pretty fun right now fyi

163 Donna Ballard  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:39:01pm

re: #133 darthstar

Yes, but my cat just looked at his post and said, "Don't upding that guy."
/

To each his/her own my friend! Fantasy is another way of showing your sentience, animals don't fantasize. Keep smiling!

164 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:39:08pm

re: #139 windsagio

I looooove my campy gay friends. They bring fierce style and spark any party.

165 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:39:17pm

Meanwhile Bob McDonnell, rising Republican star and the guy tapped to give the R response to Obama's SOTU, strips sexual-orientation discrimination protection from gay state workers by executive order. [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Virgina's governor: A overflowing toilet, in human form!

166 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:39:18pm

re: #132 keloyd

. . .Current consensus with the Catholics, afaik, is one must consciously reject the Church after its teachings are presented in a competent manner, then you go to hell. Current consensus adds that humanity should not speculate on who goes where because it's above our pay grade.
. . ..

That's the way it's always been.
I recall learning that in 1st grade in the 1959-1960 school year.

167 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:39:58pm

re: #158 windsagio

heh, Where are you at? Just for general comparison purposes :p

I know you know what WUB is really like, so he's a good comparison for what I"m talking about >>

I'm in the gratuitously Catholic Philippines.

Also, what's WUB stand for?

168 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:40:15pm

re: #150 Olsonist

Have you read this dude: [Link: www.doncupitt.com...] ?

He gives a very good argument for respecting the faith of others from an atheist point of view. One of his great points is that theists who think they know the will of God in any way are very different who think that God wants us to use our faculties to derive from ourselves a sense of morality, but attribute that ability to him. He says that the second group are really actually agnostics of a certain type-- they believe that god is knowable but not his nature.

Really fascinating stuff.

169 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:40:19pm

OT: In case this hasn't been posted...

Former Vice President Dick Cheney Hospitalized With Chest Pains

Former Vice President Dick Cheney has been hospitalized with chest pains, Fox News confirms.

The 69-year-old Republican, who served as Vice President from 2001 to 2009 in the administration of George W. Bush, was said to be resting comfortably Monday at George Washington Hospital, Washington D.C.

"His doctors are evaluating the situation," a statement from his office said.

Cheney has a history of cardiovascular problems. He suffered his first heart attack 32 years ago at the age of 37. Since then, he has suffered four heart attacks.

170 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:40:38pm

re: #165 WindUpBird

re: #49 Varek Raith

He's also the prick who, along with Gov Gilmore, tried to intervene in a vegetative state case at Annaburg Manor. He failed.
*Spits @ Marhsall's feet*

Sigh. I've voted against this fool in every election.

171 Aye Pod  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:40:41pm

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

Good find, but you need to know that I agree with Pope Benedict. Hell is real, and it is eternal. It's not intolerant to say so, and belief in Hell is part of established Christian theology,

Sure but a lot of people have come to see that hell = infinite punishment for finite crimes, not a particularly just concept. And when one of the 'crimes' that can send you there is 'unbelief', that just makes God look like a demon - albeit a fictional one.

I know what the apologetic line is - "oh, people send themselves to hell, they choose it by cutting themselves off from God's love" - but that doesn't make any sense. For one thing, if that were how it worked, unbelievers would be in hell now, while they still live - yet they seem to be no less happy than anyone else.

172 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:40:41pm

re: #167 laZardo

WindUpBird.

173 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:40:54pm

re: #164 prairiefire

I looove my campy gay friends. They bring fierce style and spark any party.

I am not campy, nor am I stylish. I will however, bring the best beer to the party. Because friends don't let friends drink Bud Light and Corona. :D

174 Donna Ballard  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:40:55pm

re: #159 cliffster

Hi, I'm cliffster. How are you?

Ummm, I'm good how are you? I know you aren't new, you just funnin with us dude? :-)

175 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:40:55pm

re: #135 Olsonist

Everything you said and priests get paid tax free, cuz religion's special.

Priests pay tax on the income from their pay.
Why do you think they don't?

176 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:41:06pm

re: #167 laZardo

I'm in the gratuitously Catholic Philippines.

Also, what's WUB stand for?

Stands for me :)

177 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:41:48pm

re: #166 reine.de.tout

Reine, you would probably love my friend Robert Alter's book that I linked above.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

178 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:42:12pm

re: #169 NJDhockeyfan

OT: In case this hasn't been posted...

Former Vice President Dick Cheney Hospitalized With Chest Pains

...again?

179 jaunte  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:42:30pm

re: #175 reine.de.tout

Priests pay tax on the income from their pay.
Why do you think they don't?

Some additional compensation info:
[Link: www.dioceseny.org...]

180 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:42:36pm

re: #145 goddamnedfrank

Um, I'm guessing no.

Bringing the term "oh snap" to the culture at large!

181 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:42:43pm

re: #176 WindUpBird

...oh.

/MOVING ON...

182 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:42:50pm

re: #154 laZardo

Where I am, the gays are very stereotypically emancipated and - more importantly - dreadfully out of shape. Seriously, they're either supermodel-anorexic or gloriously rotund.

I am not supermodel anorexic, I'm just nerd skinny. Not TOTALLY out of shape because I play drums and I play like Tommy Lee. :D But still mostly sedentary.

183 cliffster  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:42:53pm

re: #174 Dragon_Lady

Ummm, I'm good how are you? I know you aren't new, you just funnin with us dude? :-)

Hey Miss Fieryreptile. I'm not new, but I am fresh.

184 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:43:18pm

re: #74 albusteve

Detroit maybe?

Then I'm fucked

185 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:43:21pm

re: #177 Obdicut

Reine, you would probably love my friend Robert Alter's book that I linked above.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Why yes, I just might.
And look - it's on Kindle!
ordered.

186 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:43:33pm

re: #182 WindUpBird

I am not supermodel anorexic, I'm just nerd skinny. Not TOTALLY out of shape because I play drums and I play like Tommy Lee. :D But still mostly sedentary.

I'm trash drag.

187 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:43:40pm

re: #150 Olsonist

But the difference is, DF, you're telling us to treat your faith with deference and we're not telling you to goof on the wacky books.

I'm just asking you to please be respectful. I'm not a WND whack job, and I ask you to please not lump my in with those assholes.

188 Lidane  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:43:48pm

re: #160 NJDhockeyfan

I don't like the layout. It looks like one of those scam websites that gives you viruses.

That's because it is. It infects readers with the Stupidity Virus. Prolonged exposure kills brain cells by increasing orders of magnitude until all that's left are people like Joseph Farah and Molotov Mitchell. =P

189 cronus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:43:53pm

re: #132 keloyd

I'll confess I'm not Catholic, but I've been around a lot of Catholicism, and it's pretty standard boilerplate theology. The Catholics got rid of the literal hellfire and brimstone imagery centuries ago. When some of us had the Reformation, they did their own bit of housecleaning within their Aegean stables.

Also, I think the Bushmen get a pass. Current consensus with the Catholics, afaik, is one must consciously reject the Church after its teachings are presented in a competent manner, then you go to hell. Current consensus adds that humanity should not speculate on who goes where because it's above our pay grade.

We must all be careful though - arguing over religion on the internet is almost as much of a taffy pull as arguing over AGW, imho.

The Church appears a couple degrees of emphasis away from dispensing with the whole hell business altogether -- if Benedict helps lead the Catholic Church down that path than good for him. The minute that children are no longer told that some trivial thought or activity will lead to eternal damnation the better off humanity will be.

190 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:43:58pm

re: #155 prairiefire

Is Sean Hayes straight? I think I see what your saying. Spike Lee doesn't like Tyler Perry's work because he thinks it is too much shuffle&jive, aw shucks stupid black people. And yet, Tyler Perry's movies and plays have a large black audience. I think it's more a matter of personal taste then painting with a broad cultural brush.

Your question about if he's straight is actually a lot more open to discussion than I originally thought...

“When you see me play Jack, I want you to believe that that’s a gay character. After Will & Grace is over, when I play a straight character, I want you to believe that, too.” He also said: "If you see a movie and I'm in it, and the first thing you think of is who I'm sleeping with, then you're not watching the performance; you're watching the personality."

Though if he is straight then I don't think the Tyler Perry analogy holds up.

People are always given more leeway to make fun of/mock those groups that they themselves are a part of.

But whatever, there's no real right or wrong answer to my question, just something for us to keep in mind as a distant possibility someday....

191 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:44:09pm

re: #173 WindUpBird

Amen, brother. I have had a two boyfriends who a bit later decided they were gay. They were not campy at the time. Who know what they are wearing now?

192 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:46:01pm

re: #189 cronus

The Church appears a couple degrees of emphasis away from dispensing with the whole hell business altogether -- if Benedict helps lead the Catholic Church down that path than good for him. The minute that children are no longer told that some trivial thought or activity will lead to eternal damnation the better off humanity will be.

Benedict won't do that. He's an uber-traditionalist. As in, prefers the Mass to be held in Latin kind of traditionalist, amongst many other things.

193 Donna Ballard  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:46:08pm

re: #183 cliffster

Hey Miss Fieryreptile. I'm not new, but I am fresh.

I knew that! Fresh is always good, Just ask Gain!

194 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:46:17pm

re: #147 windsagio

It makes for boring parties. A bunch of grunge and metal guys hanging around talking about games and music.

I met a gay guy in Denver one time hitchhiking around the west...I was filthy and burned out and he offered to let me recover a bit at his and his friends pad...so I did, and ended up hanging out with them for 6 weeks...they were from Florida looking around CO for a business investment...they were not lovers but best friends...anyway they were two extremely bright and funny guys...and could really camp it up...so full of fun and energy and living the good life...neither one made a pass at me and went to the wall to make me feel comfortable and just hang out and have fun...and man it was a blast I will never forget...every little daily routine was an event...shopping for dinner every day...cocktails...and the stories they told were utterly hilarious...a great experience and I kept up with them for years til we lost track...

195 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:46:42pm

re: #189 cronus

The Church appears a couple degrees of emphasis away from dispensing with the whole hell business altogether -- if Benedict helps lead the Catholic Church down that path than good for him. The minute that children are no longer told that some trivial thought or activity will lead to eternal damnation the better off humanity will be.

It never seems fair to propose a period of infinite suffering as punishment for a life of finite sin....

(Not sure if someone else has said something similar to that...)

196 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:46:52pm

re: #146 iceweasel

Be advised that many do not consider Benedict moderate at all.He's no Pope John Paul II.


Putting aside truth and salvation, I wonder if that may be better for the Catholic Church as an organization. Some groups get more members by making it more pleasant, making 'the yoke easy and the burden light'. Other groups get more members by making it harder, by having tough rites of initiation and difficult standards, like maybe the US Marines.

In the context of religion, I wonder if membership #s or some other variable for success may improve by having a leader who enforces old-school rules on morality, discipline, making the nuns dress traditionally, latin rite masses, etc. Consider mainline protestant half empty churches vs. growing and healthy(?) communities of Orthodox Jews, Amish, Wahabi Muslims.

Let me be clear on this, I have no dog in that race. It is an interesting psychological puzzle to me.

197 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:47:10pm

re: #183 cliffster

Hey Miss Fieryreptile. I'm not new, but I am fresh.

From West Philadelphia, born and raised...

198 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:47:17pm

re: #179 jaunte

Some additional compensation info:
[Link: www.dioceseny.org...]

That's Episcopal priests.
Pay for Catholic Priests here seems to be the best I could find.

199 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:47:45pm

re: #197 laZardo

From West Philadelphia, born and raised...

Bad, laZardo, bad!

200 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:48:01pm
Apart from the obnoxious rock music soundtrack, how is this different from the Taliban?

The jihadist videos have sparkly logos at the beginning. Other than that, not much.

201 Donna Ballard  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:48:05pm

Time to go pick up RWC. BBL, Keep Laughing Lizards! :-)

202 Racer X  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:48:05pm

B-52s' Fred Schneider: Gay, Proud, and on the Comeback Trail

"Back then no one even knew what they were," the mastermind behind "Love Shack" told Howard of his sexual orientation. "You became gay in the '70s."

Schneider's mother always knew more about her son than he knew about himself. He came out of the closet while she was vacuum-cleaning. "Oh I know, Freddie," she said, and continued vacuuming without missing a beat.

"It's like, well, OK. I guess I'll go back outside and smoke some pot."

203 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:48:10pm

re: #175 reine.de.tout

You are sort of right but definitely not completely right. I looked it up and priests are categorized as self employed for purposes of Social Security taxes. The is in fact an entire tax manual devoted to this stuff, Income Taxes for Priests Only.

204 jaunte  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:48:24pm

re: #198 reine.de.tout

The IRS has a bit:
IRS Topic 417 - Earnings for Clergy
[Link: www.irs.gov...]

206 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:48:31pm

re: #199 Varek Raith

Bad, laZardo, bad!

I'm so bad....I need to be punished! ;D

/breathing heavily

207 freetoken  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:48:43pm

re: #143 cronus

Wow, they're really hating on their new hero.

208 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:49:22pm

re: #192 iceweasel

Benedict won't do that. He's an uber-traditionalist. As in, prefers the Mass to be held in Latin kind of traditionalist, amongst many other things.

I prefer high Latin Mass. I'm an atheist but I dig the tunes.
Veni Creator Spiritus

209 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:49:30pm

re: #207 freetoken

Wow, they're really hating on their new hero.

Lol, disagreeing with them = MARXIST!11!!

210 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:49:35pm

The Uganda legislature & Wing Nut Daily agree:

any excuse to persecute will do.

211 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:50:17pm

re: #206 laZardo

I'm so bad...I need to be punished! ;D

/breathing heavily

OK...

SMACK!

212 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:50:25pm

re: #203 Olsonist

You are sort of right but definitely not completely right. I looked it up and priests are categorized as self employed for purposes of Social Security taxes. The is in fact an entire tax manual devoted to this stuff, Income Taxes for Priests Only.

Well - then it isn't entirely right to say they are paid tax-free, either.

re: #135 Olsonist

Everything you said and priests get paid tax free, cuz religion's special.

213 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:50:30pm

re: #185 reine.de.tout

He's a really sweet and wonderful man. You can trust his ethical stance on the Bible absolutely. His wrote much of the commentaries, also, after his wife received a cancer diagnosis, so... I don't know. I feel that knowing that will more enable you to feel the author behind his words, that he's really trying to have a conversation with God through this book, as it were. Not despairing, just deeply thoughtful, sorrowful, and faithful.

I'm an atheist, as you know, but Robert Alter's faith is one that continually drives him to reexamine every ethical stance he has in the light of being good to other human beings, as he believes that God wants him to be. I can't deny that his eternal wrestle with the words of the Torah have made him an amazing man.

214 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:51:34pm

Churches can qualify as 501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations.

215 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:51:38pm

re: #196 keloyd

Putting aside truth and salvation, I wonder if that may be better for the Catholic Church as an organization. Some groups get more members by making it more pleasant, making 'the yoke easy and the burden light'. Other groups get more members by making it harder, by having tough rites of initiation and difficult standards, like maybe the US Marines.

In the context of religion, I wonder if membership #s or some other variable for success may improve by having a leader who enforces old-school rules on morality, discipline, making the nuns dress traditionally, latin rite masses, etc.

Benedict is bad news. There's a difference between being a traditionalist and actively seeking to turn the clock back, and unfortunately Benedict is more of the latter.

You have to also bear in mind the special status of the Pope in Catholicism. He's infallible when he speaks ex cathedra: i.e., on faith and morals. So this isn't so much about how the nuns dress, or holding the mass in latin (both of which are very bad ideas) but about a whole lot more.
More than a few US Catholics already aren't happy with Benedict.

216 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:52:20pm

re: #192 iceweasel

Benedict won't do that. He's an uber-traditionalist. As in, prefers the Mass to be held in Latin kind of traditionalist, amongst many other things.

I have this awesome mug that I use for pens on my desk.
It has a picture of the Pope (then Cardinal Ratzinger and head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith also known as the Holy Office aka Inquisition) and says:
The Cardinal Ratzinger Fan Club
"putting the smackdown on heresy since 1991"

217 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:52:33pm

re: #213 Obdicut

He's a really sweet and wonderful man. You can trust his ethical stance on the Bible absolutely. His wrote much of the commentaries, also, after his wife received a cancer diagnosis, so... I don't know. I feel that knowing that will more enable you to feel the author behind his words, that he's really trying to have a conversation with God through this book, as it were. Not despairing, just deeply thoughtful, sorrowful, and faithful.

I'm an atheist, as you know, but Robert Alter's faith is one that continually drives him to reexamine every ethical stance he has in the light of being good to other human beings, as he believes that God wants him to be. I can't deny that his eternal wrestle with the words of the Torah have made him an amazing man.

Then I will enjoy it. As I've gotten older, I find more and more that I reexamine my stand on everything, from a moral and ethical standpoint. It's a continuous process; and of course, for Catholics, the sacrament of reconciliation (confession) is part of that process.

218 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:53:14pm

re: #214 Olsonist

Churches can qualify as 501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations.

Yes, churches.
Employees of the church, including clergy, don't get paid "tax-free".
They pay tax. There may be a different category for them, but they pay tax.

219 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:53:31pm

re: #214 Olsonist

Scientology: a faith atheists and Christians can enjoy bashing...together.

220 cronus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:54:09pm

re: #192 iceweasel

Benedict won't do that. He's an uber-traditionalist. As in, prefers the Mass to be held in Latin kind of traditionalist, amongst many other things.

Fair enought, but if someone with Benedict's conservative pedigree can talk about Hell needing to be viewed symbolically I'd imagine a truly moderate Pope could kick that can further down the road by using Benedict's comments and reputation as cover.

221 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:54:22pm

re: #219 laZardo

Scientology: a faith atheists and Christians can enjoy bashing...together.

Scientology is not a religion, it is not a faith, it is a organized crime ring.

222 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:54:23pm

re: #196 keloyd

Here's my formula for success: Put on a good show on Sundays. Gregorian chants, that giant smoking thing they swing out over the crowd, lots of ancient mystical mumblings, etc. Then let people live modern lives, get divorces have pre-marital sex, be happy.

223 Aye Pod  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:54:51pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

I prefer high Latin Mass. I'm an atheist but I dig the tunes.
Veni Creator Spiritus

[Video]

Well, that is vastly better than the kind of excruciating modern hymns people have to listen to in churches in the UK, I have to admit :

224 Racer X  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:54:51pm

Professor destroys laptop.


Do not bring your laptop into this guy's class.

225 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:55:11pm

By the way allow me to give my thoughts in response to this video in musical form!

re: #219 laZardo

Scientology: a faith atheists and Christians can enjoy bashing...together.

Heck lets let Jews and Muslims in on that bandwagon as well along with the agnostics there's plenty of room on the Co$ bashing express!

226 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:55:12pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

I prefer high Latin Mass. I'm an atheist but I dig the tunes.
Veni Creator Spiritus

[Video]

The tunes are great, and I'm not denying that there's a general aesthetic pleasure to be had.
But if we're talking about people participating in their faith, and understanding it, and getting new converts (and just keeping children interested) it is a stupid, stupid idea to conduct your service in a dead language.

You wind up with people saying Kee-ree a -lay suh and not knowing WTF it means. Not wise.

227 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:55:17pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Also, female priests, and be cool with the gays.

And don't cover up massive systemic child abuse.

228 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:55:25pm

re: #219 laZardo

Scientology: a faith atheists and Christians can enjoy bashing...together.

I never got that... Why bash another religion when yours* is just as easy a target...?

*Not you, laZardo.

229 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:55:32pm

re: #219 laZardo

I like to defend scientology (well kinda). I mean its an awful scam, but pick on something with some controversy. I think the entire world has hating Scientology covered ;)

230 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:55:50pm

re: #221 Walter L. Newton

Scientology is not a religion, it is not a faith, it is a organized crime ring.

That you, Germany?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

(Boy, and ain't that the truth, though?)

231 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:55:58pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Here's my formula for success: Put on a good show on Sundays. Gregorian chants, that giant smoking thing they swing out over the crowd, lots of ancient mystical mumblings, etc. Then let people live modern lives, get divorces have pre-marital sex, be happy.

People do get divorced. I've been divorced (and annulled) twice.
Was also very happy in my pre-marital life. And current post-marital life as well.
:-)

232 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:56:03pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Here's my formula for success: Put on a good show on Sundays. Gregorian chants, that giant smoking thing they swing out over the crowd, lots of ancient mystical mumblings, etc. Then let people live modern lives, get divorces have pre-marital sex, be happy.

Actually that was always my favorite part.

233 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:56:08pm

re: #10 Gus 802

I wonder if Molotov Mitchel would use the same argument to defend slavery.

I think if he wanted to be consistent, he'd have to agree with the bible on that account.

This video reminds me of that open letter written to Dr Laura Schlessinger.

234 mich-again  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:56:12pm

re: #212 reine.de.tout

Reine, don't you love it when people just make stuff up. Hey as long as it fits the narrative.. Kind of like the other dumb comment someone made upstream..

The minute that children are no longer told that some trivial thought or activity will lead to eternal damnation the better off humanity will be.

Which is certainly not part of the Church's teaching, nor has it been in my 45 years but so what? it sounds so "compelling" to the enlightened.

235 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:56:14pm

re: #218 reine.de.tout

Well, priests don't pay Social Security tax and churches can be 501c3 tax-exempt. So let's start chipping away. Donations are tax deductible.

.. cuz religion is special.

236 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:56:56pm

re: #226 iceweasel

The tunes are great, and I'm not denying that there's a general aesthetic pleasure to be had.
But if we're talking about people participating in their faith, and understanding it, and getting new converts (and just keeping children interested) it is a stupid, stupid idea to conduct your service in a dead language.

You wind up with people saying Kee-ree a -lay suh and not knowing WTF it means. Not wise.

It means Lord have Mercy.
Kee-ree a a lay-ee-son.

237 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:57:12pm

re: #221 Walter L. Newton

I subscribed to Omni magazine in the 70's when Mr. Hubbard died. It was reported in the magazine the people around him kept his body out at sea for months. I guess they were cooking up the scheme.

238 Vambo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:57:18pm

I could only stomach about a minute of that video. I don't know who that Molotov Cocktease guy is, but I'm pretty sure there's some kind of Reich Wing competition to see who can be the most outrageous and hateful Fuhrer in the media. If this is the alternative to the "liberal media", bring on some more Joy Behar and Whoopi Goldberg -- at least they're not genocidal.

239 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:57:38pm

re: #178 laZardo

...again?

There are some pretty sick comments at CNN regarding Dick Cheney. How long will CNN take to clean up the comment section?

Here are a few:

roadrunner88
Hopefully the Dick will be history by tomorrow

Mark17
Great, hopefully he dies.

Kylesrubi
Oh, and I would LOVE to see him gone from this world. Actually, to see him suffer would be better

240 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:07pm

re: #234 mich-again

Reine, don't you love it when people just make stuff up. Hey as long as it fits the narrative.. Kind of like the other dumb comment someone made upstream..

Which is certainly not part of the Church's teaching, nor has it been in my 45 years but so what? it sounds so "compelling" to the enlightened.

Yeah, I mentioned upthread that what cronos or whoever said about hell etc and who is "damned" was what I learned in first grade in 1959.

But hey . . . don't let facts etc.

241 cronus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:18pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Here's my formula for success: Put on a good show on Sundays. Gregorian chants, that giant smoking thing they swing out over the crowd, lots of ancient mystical mumblings, etc. Then let people live modern lives, get divorces have pre-marital sex, be happy.

I just finished Karen Armstrong's book "The Case for God". She basically concurs with your views -- although she takes a REALLY long time getting there.

242 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:23pm

re: #239 NJDhockeyfan

Don't judge anyone by anonymous internet comments, unless they're right of center.

243 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:26pm

re: #235 Olsonist

Well, priests don't pay Social Security tax and churches can be 501c3 tax-exempt. So let's start chipping away. Donations are tax deductible.

.. cuz religion is special.

It is to me.

244 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:29pm

re: #239 NJDhockeyfan

Those were already really aggravating the third time he got hospitalized.

245 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:35pm

re: #236 reine.de.tout

It means Lord have Mercy.
Kee-ree a a lay-ee-son.

The point being that I know perfectly well what it means, and can spell it too.

246 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:35pm

Sorry once again, my thoughts on the video in musical form...

And what does Leviticus have to say?
Oh what does it say?
About being gay?
To lie with man is an abomination!
Like cursing your parents
Trimming your beard
Planting wheat and barely in the same furrow
Eating pork
Wearing polyester
And masturbation!

247 Gus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:35pm

New thread!

248 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:38pm

re: #215 iceweasel

So this isn't so much about how the nuns dress, or holding the mass in latin (both of which are very bad ideas) but about a whole lot more.

Well I like the Mass in Latin and think that in some areas, like the Bible Belt, it would do The Church good if Religous men and women wore habits and collars when out in public so that they are seen doing good (which they do a lot of) and are not viewed as something odd.

(I'm an odd Catholic. I like my church traditional (I mean where have all the confessionals gone?) but am a social liberal.)

249 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:58:55pm

re: #223 Jimmah

Yeah, the English have always had trouble creating good composers. Handel sucked and he's the best of the crop. You can pretty safely skip all English music between John Dowland and The Beatles and not miss much.

250 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:59:22pm

re: #247 Gus 802

New thread!

/Thanks for letting me know, but could you just send me an email next time?

251 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:59:37pm

re: #245 iceweasel

The point being that I know perfectly well what it means, and can spell it too.

My point being that we were taught what it meant.

252 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:59:42pm

re: #242 Guanxi88

Don't judge anyone by anonymous internet comments, unless they're right of center.

Ain't that the truth!

253 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:59:49pm

re: #242 Guanxi88

Don't judge anyone by anonymous internet comments, unless they're right of center.

I've always had this sneaking suspicion that most of the 13-year-old kids using racial slurs on *chan imageboards were actually of that demographic that they're slurring against. They only say that because they just wanna get a kick (i.e. "lulz") out of the reactions.

254 mich-again  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:59:57pm

re: #235 Olsonist

Donations are tax deductible.

.. cuz religion is special.

The country is chock full of all sorts of "special" organizations that get the tax break. And not just Churches.

255 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:00:01pm

re: #227 Obdicut

Also, female priests, and be cool with the gays.

And don't cover up massive systemic child abuse.

Yeah, I think female priests would solve a lot of problems. Also letting the preisthood marry would take care of a lot of things too.

256 Gus  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:00:09pm

re: #250 jamesfirecat

/Thanks for letting me know, but could you just send me an email next time?

Sure thing. What's your email address?

/

257 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:00:31pm

re: #251 reine.de.tout

My point being that we were taught what it meant.

Do you think it should be harder for people to understand the Mass than it needs to be?
It's a stupid idea.

258 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:00:53pm

re: #253 laZardo

I've always had this sneaking suspicion that most of the 13-year-old kids using racial slurs on *chan imageboards were actually of that demographic that they're slurring against. They only say that because they just wanna get a kick (i.e. "lulz") out of the reactions.

Yeah, it took me some time to learn about that whole deal. Weird, twisted, and, oddly enough, kinda funny, in a socially destructive kinda way.

259 webevintage  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:01:04pm

re: #226 iceweasel

The tunes are great, and I'm not denying that there's a general aesthetic pleasure to be had.
But if we're talking about people participating in their faith, and understanding it, and getting new converts (and just keeping children interested) it is a stupid, stupid idea to conduct your service in a dead language.

You wind up with people saying Kee-ree a -lay suh and not knowing WTF it means. Not wise.

But The Church is big enough for both there is no reason why any should be outlawed.

260 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:01:46pm

re: #257 iceweasel

Do you think it should be harder for people to understand the Mass than it needs to be?
It's a stupid idea.

Sure.
I much prefer the Mass in English.
I also enjoy hearing a Latin Mass on occasion, reminds me of being in 1st grade in 1959.

Just sayin' we were taught what we were saying.

261 albusteve  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:02:35pm

re: #255 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I think female priests would solve a lot of problems. Also letting the preisthood marry would take care of a lot of things too.

I bummed out, I cannot participate in this thread...enough people hate me as it is...but married priests is not gonna happen, no way...no how....not enough of them want to be and they have a sweet thing going...I'll say no more

262 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:04:01pm

re: #261 albusteve

I bummed out, I cannot participate in this thread...enough people hate me as it is...but married priests is not gonna happen, no way...no how...not enough of them want to be and they have a sweet thing going...I'll say no more

We have a married priest.
He was an Episcopal priest, married with children.
Whole family converted, he still felt the call.
He was accepted into the Catholic priesthood and is Asst Pastor at my church.
His wife teaches Phys Ed at my daughter's school.
It's not unheard of.

263 keloyd  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:04:26pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Here's my formula for success: Put on a good show on Sundays. Gregorian chants, that giant smoking thing they swing out over the crowd, lots of ancient mystical mumblings, etc. Then let people live modern lives, get divorces have pre-marital sex, be happy.

Bloody hell. That's pretty much what I do (except I've only seen the big swinging incense things on TV). Have you been watching me? Are you...watching me... now?

264 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:05:46pm

re: #260 reine.de.tout

Sure.
I much prefer the Mass in English.
I also enjoy hearing a Latin Mass on occasion, reminds me of being in 1st grade in 1959.

Just sayin' we were taught what we were saying.

I'm not a Catholic anymore, but I think it would be interesting, even [historically] fascinating to hear Mass in Latin (provided I had a translation on hand). I've always been rather fond of the pomp & ceremony involved with Catholic worship. Can't explain it.

265 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:06:29pm

re: #262 reine.de.tout

It is really, really, really, really, really, really rare, and if the Church doesn't change its policies on priests, there really isn't going to be a Catholic church anymore, or it at least is going to change vastly-- and I don't think the US Catholic church would stay part of it if it did.

266 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:06:31pm

re: #239 NJDhockeyfan

There are assholes like that on both sides of the aisle. You're right that CNN should clean up its comments. Haters like that need to be kept off respectable sites.

267 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:07:42pm

re: #265 Obdicut

Yeah. Its absolutely necessary. The maneuver with the conservative Episcopalians is brilliant tho'.

268 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:07:53pm

re: #265 Obdicut

It is really, really, really, really, really, really rare, and if the Church doesn't change its policies on priests, there really isn't going to be a Catholic church anymore, or it at least is going to change vastly-- and I don't think the US Catholic church would stay part of it if it did.

I agree.
And the Church could change its position on it - I don't think it will anytime soon, but one day we'll see it happen.

Right now - priests are so scarce - it's a very difficult job, being a priest. A priest is on duty 24/7.

269 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:07:57pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

Isn't it sad that multibillion dollar corporations can't do a good a job policing their sites as Charles?

It shows their contempt for their audience, in my opinion.

270 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:08:03pm

re: #261 albusteve

I bummed out, I cannot participate in this thread...enough people hate me as it is...but married priests is not gonna happen, no way...no how...not enough of them want to be and they have a sweet thing going...I'll say no more

Umm... isn't married priests the law of the land in the Anglican Church?

Hell didn't the Catholics even once recently offer to let the Anglican priests who were upset by the appointing of an openly gay bishop become catholic while allowing them to remain married?

271 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:08:39pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

There are assholes like that on both sides of the aisle. You're right that CNN should clean up its comments. Haters like that need to be kept off respectable sites.

The comments at CNN are, believe it or not, worse than at DKos right now.

272 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:08:40pm

re: #264 eclectic infidel

Christopher Hitchens is rather fond of the King James Bible, as I recall, and he is virulently atheist and anti-theist. I rather like the Iliad and Odyssey, two rather old religious texts. I'm with you on the Latin mass. I grew up Catholic and as stupid as the Church is, I'd be curious to hear a Mass to see if I recognize anything. A good Gregorian chant is probably as close as I'll get to a church, though.

273 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:08:46pm

re: #270 jamesfirecat

Umm... isn't married priests the law of the land in the Anglican Church?

Hell didn't the Catholics even once recently offer to let the Anglican priests who were upset by the appointing of an openly gay bishop become catholic while allowing them to remain married?

They have.
My church has a married priest.
Exactly the situation you mentioned.

274 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:08:53pm

re: #268 reine.de.tout

Out of interest: Do you think a schism is likely? Between the US church and the Pope and more conservative branch?

275 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:09:48pm

re: #269 Obdicut

as good a job. PIMF. I blame Stella.

276 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:09:59pm

re: #274 Obdicut

Out of interest: Do you think a schism is likely? Between the US church and the Pope and more conservative branch?

No.
I think there are a lot of studies and some very serious and contentious conversations that go on behind the scenes.
But I don't see a schism like you're talking about.

277 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:10:38pm

re: #272 Olsonist

Wait, in what world are the Odyssey and Illiad religious texts?

278 Vambo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:12:08pm

re: #261 albusteve

I bummed out, I cannot participate in this thread...enough people hate me as it is...but married priests is not gonna happen, no way...no how...not enough of them want to be and they have a sweet thing going...I'll say no more

I don't know why people hate you, but celibacy is not exactly a "sweet thing" IMO!!!

279 jamesfirecat  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:12:18pm

re: #273 reine.de.tout

They have.
My church has a married priest.
Exactly the situation you mentioned.

You mean you have a married catholic priest or married Anglican one?

280 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:12:41pm

re: #278 Vambo

lol *swish*!

281 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:13:16pm

re: #276 reine.de.tout

I haven't really paid much attention to the church politics, but I know some really awesome nuns out in Chicago I've stayed in touch with, and they're concerned about it. They say that the mother church still doesn't understand how much two issues have hurt US catholics: The sex abuse coverup and their handling, and the closing of churches.

They also see and fear (these are WWII era nuns, seriously) Europe swinging more to the right wing in the near future, and that affecting the Catholic church's politics.

So sorry, it's all just second hand hearsay.

282 Aye Pod  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:14:53pm

re: #275 Obdicut

as good a job. PIMF. I blame Stella.

Ms Artois has sabotaged my typing on several occasions too ;-)

283 laZardo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:16:16pm

re: #277 windsagio

Wait, in what world are the Odyssey and Illiad religious texts?

Ancient Greek religion?

284 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:17:32pm

re: #277 windsagio

Seriously, in Greece at the time, they were religious texts. The Aeneid was treated as a religious text of the state religion. We tend to look at this from our corporate monotheistic sensibility. The Greeks were polytheistic and the distinction between church and state was slim if not epsilon. Socrates was put to death for corrupting the youth, challenging the accepted notion of religion, a state offense.

Anyways, the Iliad and the Odyssey were religious texts. Both have their gods and both deal with hell, as does the Aeneid.

285 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:17:46pm

re: #283 laZardo

They're fiction, and always were fiction not religious texts.

Except for sibyls, The Greeks didn't really have religious texts as we know them. (or such is my understanding)

286 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:18:36pm

re: #284 Olsonist

I kinda hit it in 285, but I strongly disagree with that. The Romans were different, but the Greeks didn't have religious texts as we understand the term.

287 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:18:42pm

re: #284 Olsonist

The Aeneid was treated as a religious text of the state religion of Rome.

PIMF.

288 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:19:06pm

re: #285 windsagio

They're fiction, and always were fiction not religious texts.

Except for sibyls, The Greeks didn't really have religious texts as we know them. (or such is my understanding)

289 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:20:05pm

re: #288 Olsonist

How's this. Comparing them to something like the Bible or the Vedas would be deeply misleading at best :P

290 Vambo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:20:16pm

oh, and just so albusteve isn't the most hated member -- the idea of people spending "eternity" in Heaven or Hell is one of the most ridiculous, unbelievable fairy tale concepts ever dreamed up by the established religions.

Once you step into the "eternity" of Hell, your life on Earth ceases to exist. Poof!! You were never alive. There's no "before", because eternity is an infinite loop. You're in hell for eternity. Why are you in hell? Who knows! You're just there. The End.

291 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:20:38pm

re: #284 Olsonist

Seriously, in Greece at the time, they were religious texts. The Aeneid was treated as a religious text of the state religion. We tend to look at this from our corporate monotheistic sensibility. The Greeks were polytheistic and the distinction between church and state was slim if not epsilon. Socrates was put to death for corrupting the youth, challenging the accepted notion of religion, a state offense.

Anyways, the Iliad and the Odyssey were religious texts. Both have their gods and both deal with hell, as does the Aeneid.

No, the Aeneid was basically commissioned by Augustus to establish a divine provenance of sorts for both Rome in general and his family in particular. (Julian). That's one reason why Virgil essentially rewrites part of the Illiad and part of the Odyssesy. The visit to hell in the Aeneid is basically a rewriting of Odysseus' trip to the underworld. It's more of a literary device than it is a religious one.

292 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:21:07pm

re: #290 Vambo

I at least downdinged him because I thought he was implying that priests didn't want to marry because they enjoyed being pedophiles.

Top that, if you can ;)

293 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:23:24pm

re: #287 Olsonist

The Aeneid was treated as a religious text of the state religion of Rome.

PIMF.

Sort of, but the state religion as it was in Rome was very different from religion as we know it, and highly different from the Greeks.

294 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:24:10pm

re: #290 Vambo

oh, and just so albusteve isn't the most hated member -- the idea of people spending "eternity" in Heaven or Hell is one of the most ridiculous, unbelievable fairy tale concepts ever dreamed up by the established religions.

Once you step into the "eternity" of Hell, your life on Earth ceases to exist. Poof!! You were never alive. There's no "before", because eternity is an infinite loop. You're in hell for eternity. Why are you in hell? Who knows! You're just there. The End.

Prove it.

295 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:24:31pm

re: #293 iceweasel

Its my turn to be offensive :p


"Atheists in general would be more convincing if they knew something about religion in the first place. Most of them think of various faiths and cultures as Christianity in blackface."

TOP THAT VAMBO!

296 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:26:14pm

re: #295 windsagio

Its my turn to be offensive :p

"Atheists in general would be more convincing if they knew something about religion in the first place. Most of them think of various faiths and cultures as Christianity in blackface."

TOP THAT VAMBO!

Can we swap in "Christians" for atheists in that first word as needed? :)

297 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:26:25pm

re: #289 windsagio

This is a strange discussion for me since I'm an atheist but here goes.

Homer, in the Iliad, the Odyssey and the lesser known Theogony is dealing with creation, with the gods and with a cultural sense of what is expected of a Greek. I don't see in the least how this is different from the old and new testaments and the Koran. Granted I'm an atheist, but the differences are in degree not in kind.

The old+new testaments went through quite a bit of state enforced editing. Homer was adapted by the singers over time. The parallels are endless. Arguably, Homer influenced the old testament, or perhaps there were cultural exchanges across the Med.

298 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:27:02pm

re: #296 iceweasel

Of course. You can swap anyone in really. I'm just trying to offend the atheists tonight ;)

299 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:27:17pm

re: #297 Olsonist

The Theogony isn't Homer. It's Hesiod.

300 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:27:42pm

re: #297 Olsonist

The place I have an issue with you is that they have no concept of a 'sacred text'. It just doesn't exist, except maybe the transcribed proclamations of scripture.

301 Vambo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:27:46pm

re: #294 NJDhockeyfan

Prove it.

fuck off?

302 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:29:00pm

re: #296 iceweasel

Really, everyone in western culture sees everything through this crazy judeo-christian lens. Its just are you 'pro' or 'against'?

I love reading about that stuff, and the parallels between the various 'modern' (to misuse a term) faiths, and how they annihilate the old faiths everywhere they show up.

303 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:31:09pm

re: #128 Obdicut

Besides, the Bible doesn't tell fairy stories. Fairy stories are very straightforward and morally certain.

The Bible is rather more complex. Have someone read the book of Job and ask them what the fuck that was about. Always fun.

I'd like to mention my friend Robert Alter, who's done a new translation of the Torah, or, as the Christians call it, the first five books of the bible.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

You know Robert Alter? Cool.

304 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:31:35pm

re: #302 windsagio

Really, everyone in western culture sees everything through this crazy judeo-christian lens. Its just are you 'pro' or 'against'?

I love reading about that stuff, and the parallels between the various 'modern' (to misuse a term) faiths, and how they annihilate the old faiths everywhere they show up.

Yup.
The last remnants of my Catholicism probably died when I took a class on greek religion and read about the Dionysius cults. Pretty much every element that we think of as 'special' to Catholicism or Christianity is present in the greek mystery religions, and of course has even older (and eastern) beginnings. Martrydom, violent death, 3 days and resurrection, flesh and blood.

305 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:32:17pm

re: #293 iceweasel

Sort of, but the state religion as it was in Rome was very different from religion as we know it, and highly different from the Greeks.

Yes, as we know it. They didn't have the corporates sense of religion that we have. There's was really a state religion.

Also, the Roman state religion was nothing if not flexible. Caesar was Pontifex Maximus, and he wasn't very pious. [I'm a huge Caesarian, though.]

Virgil crafted the Aeneid onto the great epics partly as a show that Rome had arrived and that culturally it was on par with the Greeks.

306 Vambo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:32:29pm

re: #295 windsagio

Its my turn to be offensive :p

"Atheists in general would be more convincing if they knew something about religion in the first place. Most of them think of various faiths and cultures as Christianity in blackface."

TOP THAT VAMBO!

I agree with that actually. Although I don't think you need to be an expert in religion to consider yourself an atheist.

And my comment about eternity still stands!

307 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:33:16pm

re: #279 jamesfirecat

You mean you have a married catholic priest or married Anglican one?

A married Catholic priest.

308 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:33:26pm

re: #306 Vambo

fine.

"Atheists are just rebelling against Christianity."

/god, whats it take?

309 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:33:32pm

re: #299 iceweasel

Sorry, it's been awhile. I was conflating it with the Homeric Hymns.

310 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:33:49pm

re: #139 windsagio

maybe its a regional thing, but none of the Gays I know well (at least none of the younger ones) act campy at all. They're all depressingly mainstream >>

Friend of mine (another teacher) once asked "Why are sixth grade girls so like drag queens?" I thought about it and said that my best guess is that both of them are doing parodies of women's social behavior, the little girls because they can't quite manage it yet, and the men because they're taking it and pushing it off a cliff for art's sake.

311 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:34:18pm

re: #307 reine.de.tout

A married Catholic priest.

There are canonically legal married Catholic priests.

312 The Left  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:34:29pm

re: #309 Olsonist

Sorry, it's been awhile. I was conflating it with the Homeric Hymns.

Right, those are gorgeous. Demeter and the one to Aphrodite are the only ones I remember.

313 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:34:42pm

re: #304 iceweasel

It's a question for the ages whether it was right or not for the old Church to explicitly and intentionally pick up so much Pagan tradition. I'll admit it made it a world power >>

314 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:35:46pm

re: #303 SanFranciscoZionist


I do. Known him since I was a wee one. Gone to many beach parties with him. The sit around and eat beach parties, not the wild volleyball kind.

315 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:35:51pm

re: #305 Olsonist

To add some, there was no greek state religion, and we were talking about Homer.

*well, not counting city-gods, but that's something different.

316 Vambo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:36:10pm

re: #308 windsagio

fine.

"Atheists are just rebelling against Christianity."

/god, whats it take?

oh, that is even MORE true!!!

sorry, don't think it's going to happen. I'm more of a pantheist than an atheist anyway. But mostly I'm just a a dontgiveafuckist.

317 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:36:26pm

re: #281 Obdicut

I haven't really paid much attention to the church politics, but I know some really awesome nuns out in Chicago I've stayed in touch with, and they're concerned about it. They say that the mother church still doesn't understand how much two issues have hurt US catholics: The sex abuse coverup and their handling, and the closing of churches.

They also see and fear (these are WWII era nuns, seriously) Europe swinging more to the right wing in the near future, and that affecting the Catholic church's politics.

So sorry, it's all just second hand hearsay.

They are quite correct, imo, that Rome has absolutely no clue whatsoever how much the sex abuse scandals and cover-ups have hurt the church. None. I can't imagine where their heads are on that one - it's stunning to me how clueless they seem to be on that.

318 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:37:21pm

re: #315 windsagio

On that thought, would Timaeus and Critias count? The Atlantis bits are kinda about how Athena (as the Patron of Athens) was stronger than Poseidon.

319 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:37:49pm

re: #316 Vambo

haha you're no fun. I like the cut of your jib tho ;)

320 reine.de.tout  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:38:41pm

re: #311 Olsonist

There are canonically legal married Catholic priests.

yes.
There is one at my church.

321 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:40:24pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

I'm just asking you to please be respectful. I'm not a WND whack job, and I ask you to please not lump my in with those assholes.

D_F is, by longstanding evidence, not a WND whack job.

322 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:40:47pm

re: #317 reine.de.tout

One of these nuns was a friend of C.S. Lewis. She passed away a few years ago, but the rest soldier on, in sensible shoes.

323 Obdicut  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:41:42pm

re: #303 SanFranciscoZionist

And if you'd like to meet him sometime, I could probably arrange it. In the summer, more likely than now.

324 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:42:12pm

re: #315 windsagio

This comes down to a war of definitions. The Greeks had their gods and they had their religious customs and festivals. Homer and most of Greek tragedy fit into this religion. It was perfectly acceptable, in fact preferred, that the poets composed with the gods as characters. This might shock us. This is now.

325 Olsonist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:46:00pm

re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist

I never even remotely said he was. In fact, to be clear, he's generally a very pleasant adversary. We disagree on politics certainly but he almost never disagreeable.

326 windsagio  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:46:08pm

re: #324 Olsonist

That's probably as far as we can go then, I don't think we're communicating well :P

327 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:47:11pm

re: #271 NJDhockeyfan

The comments at CNN are, believe it or not, worse than at DKos right now.

I can believe that, as the Kos moderates its comments closely on a story like this. They know such a story will bring the assholes out to spew.

328 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:48:05pm

re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist

D_F is, by longstanding evidence, not a WND whack job.

Thank you, SFZ.

329 SlouchingPoet  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:56:51pm

It's nothing like Nazi Germany! If you want to leave, just raise your hand, acknowledge that you are a social undesirable and attach these electrodes to your testicles!

330 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:59:16pm

re: #202 Racer X

B-52s' Fred Schneider: Gay, Proud, and on the Comeback Trail

"Back then no one even knew what they were," the mastermind behind "Love Shack" told Howard of his sexual orientation. "You became gay in the '70s."

Schneider's mother always knew more about her son than he knew about himself. He came out of the closet while she was vacuum-cleaning. "Oh I know, Freddie," she said, and continued vacuuming without missing a beat.

"It's like, well, OK. I guess I'll go back outside and smoke some pot."

Two of my father's cousins came back from Vietnam and came out to great family wailing and wringing of hands.

When their baby sister came out some years later, their parents had run out of wails. "Oh, you always wanted to do whatever the boys did," Katie's mother told her. And that was that.

331 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:17:22pm

re: #304 iceweasel

Yup.
The last remnants of my Catholicism probably died when I took a class on greek religion and read about the Dionysius cults. Pretty much every element that we think of as 'special' to Catholicism or Christianity is present in the greek mystery religions, and of course has even older (and eastern) beginnings. Martrydom, violent death, 3 days and resurrection, flesh and blood.

Interesting. My research in ancient Middle Eastern religions just deepened my Judaism, as I saw the roots, and realized how old and layered this stuff is.

332 Vambo  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 8:24:16pm

In the spirit of this gay thread... I want to say that I keep reading the LGF headlines as "Monday Music: Diana Ross".

333 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:05:28pm
This video is not available in your country due to terms of use violation.
334 Nadnerb  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 9:10:03pm

re: #52 SpaceJesus

You know, when I saw the tattoo, I was also surprised. "Modern" Christians sometimes have a very militant, aggressive style just as this guy does. It is advocating theocracy and I think, quite un-Christian. As Mandy says above, he should put his stone down and look in the mirror. Guys (or gals) like this often have never had a breakdown moment of humility and realized the fallen, sinning nature of all man. Often I see lifted trucks or Suburbans on my commute to south Orange County (CA) with NOTW stickers on their windows right next to some aggro-style Skin Industries decal. How does Christianity distill down to a sticker? I would never tell a man what thoughts he may hold privately, but the imposition of religion without introspection is among one of the most hypocritical and harmful one can do.

335 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Feb 22, 2010 11:22:56pm

re: #334 Nadnerb

Often I see lifted trucks or Suburbans on my commute to south Orange County (CA) with NOTW stickers on their windows right next to some aggro-style Skin Industries decal.

I had to look that up, NOTW. The first thing I thought of when I saw their website was this. Weird.

On the topic: By his words, I see Molotov Mitchell as an evil piece of shit. I hope for his sake he divests himself of his hatred before it consumes him.

336 ...stephen  Tue, Feb 23, 2010 1:44:21am

Ugh. Blech. That was like, I dunno, waterboarding for the mind. "They don't want to kill the gays, but they do want to kill them if they act gay."

/Logic win?

337 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 23, 2010 8:35:10am

If everyone realized they have their own skeletons and vices, the world would be a better place. We all have and we all do.

338 pyrodoctor  Tue, Feb 23, 2010 3:40:43pm

Hypocrites and haters
Homophobic baiters
Restrictive pearly gate-rs

339 Timmeh  Tue, Feb 23, 2010 9:39:55pm

re: #10 Gus 802

I wonder if Molotov Mitchel would use the same argument to defend slavery.

The same thought occurred to me.

It's all an appeal to authority. I like the founders, but not everything they thought. Washington, Jefferson and others owned slaves for example. Does this justify slavery? The Bible assumes slavery as a given too.


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