Yay for sane conservatives!

No one knows exactly what Beck is selling - not even Beck. It is that simple. He doesn't have any plan other than doing what's best for the Beck brand (such as it is).

Levin has been on after Beck for some time; he's also calling out Rand Paul as being a chip off the old block.

A transcript of the end of my last phone conversation with Mark Levin:

[Levin] Get off my phone, you Commie!

[Me] Commie? How can you call me a Commie you McCain loving RINO! (not that being a Republican means anything good in my book)

[Levin] Can't you hear me?! Get off my phone you Commie!

[Me] Well your passive quasiprogressivismistic tendencies aren't hidden by calling patriots Commies.

[Levin] Shut up, moron!

[Me] Me? Moron?

[Levin] What? You can't hear anymore? You like that loudmouth Limbaugh? Need a hearing aid and some marital aids for your next trip to the Caribbean?

[Me] Are you trying to imply I am an elitist for vacationing in the Caribbean?

[Levin] No. I am calling you a moron. That is what I am doing. You are a moron. Only a hard of hearing moron would not understand that. Now get off my phone you Commie!

So we don't talk a lot anymore...

I question the venue. The guy has a website. Why is this on Facebook? Maybe I'm just not "internet savvy" enough. Looks like a cheap and sloppy way to make a blog.

A lot of people don't seem to realize that one of the people most responsible for promoting the John Birch Society back into the mainstream is the other big star at CPAC, Ron Paul. Paul has been associated with the JBS for many years, and even gave the main speech at their 50th anniversary convention.

And Ron Paul also has a regular segment on the Alex Jones conspiracy freakshow.

With this and the Hot Air thing and the Malkin calling out McCain for being a radical progressive thing, it's turning out to be a day full of things.

I mean, a day full of internecine strife in the kookosphere.

But props to Levine on this.

re: #4 wrenchwench

I question the venue. The guy has a website. Why is this on Facebook? Maybe I'm just not "internet savvy" enough. Looks like a cheap and sloppy way to make a blog.

it is.

I found one reason there were so many young people at CPAC.

3-Day Conference Pass

* Admittance to all three days of the general sessions and the Exhibit Hall

175.00

...

Student Registration

* Admittance to all three days of the general sessions and the Exhibit Hall.
* To purchase discounted banquet tickets, please call[no phone numbers allowed] for more information.
*Valid Student ID Required.

25.00

That's practically bribery.

First time i've ever given Levin some props - but hopefully not the last time on this topic...

Hey, waitaminnit! What's the big idea about starting a new blog post without reciting the Pledge of Allegiance first? ...What? Are you laughing, you effin' pinkos?!?!?

re: #9 wozzablog

First time i've ever given Levin some props - but hopefully not the last time on this topic...

The most annoying vocal chords in all of talk radio.

Someone took the word conservative and ran off with it. I wish I could have it back.

Three years worth of work and the final product all fits on a 4 gig thumb drive.

Kinda puts my career in perspective.

re: #12 DaddyG

Someone took the word conservative and ran off with it. I wish I could have it back.

Take it back and stop letting idiots define you.

re: #12 DaddyG

Now the Rational Conservatives know how the Rational Liberals felt when the Liberal tag was usurped.

re: #11 The Sanity Inspector

I really really can't stand him, but stopped clocks and all that.

re: #14 MandyManners

Take it back and stop letting idiots define you.

I speak for the sane whenever possible. For the insane the rest of the time.

re: #14 MandyManners

Mandy, Irish Rose was here earlier. She lost your email. Resend it to her.
Sorry for the interruption, peeps.

re: #15 wozzablog

Now the Rational Conservatives know how the Rational Liberals felt when the Liberal tag was usurped.

Rational Liberals...

You really expect me to leave a golden straight line like that alone?

:-p

re: #11 The Sanity Inspector

The most annoying vocal chords in all of talk radio.

Michael Savage is worse.

re: #20 Mad Al-Jaffee

Michael Savage is worse.

He warms up be gargling draino. /

re: #10 The Sanity Inspector

Hey, waitaminnit! What's the big idea about starting a new blog post without reciting the Pledge of Allegiance first? ...What? Are you laughing, you effin' pinkos?!?!?

The way nutters are calling for the Pledge these days, it's only a matter of time before one goes ape shit over someone not saying the Pledge of Allegiance before saying the Pledge of Allegiance.

Leave it to Fox to make a mountain out of a mole-hill:

Hilarity ensues, most notably on behalf of an unidentified woman standing behind a lectern. Becerra, seated on stage, can be seen smiling and stifling his laughter as he bends slightly forward in his chair.

"No, I'm serious," David's staffer continues. "Congressman, shouldn't we say the Pledge of Allegiance if we all want to be citizens? Wouldn't that be appropriate to say the Pledge of Allegiance?"

"Sure, of course," the woman on stage replies. "OK, let's go for it -- you lead."

My guess is he wasn't laughing at the Pledge, but chuckling at the uber-patriotism as being kind of cute, in a "Did that kid just remind me to say grace?" kind of way.

re: #5 Charles

A lot of people don't seem to realize that one of the people most responsible for promoting the John Birch Society back into the mainstream is the other big star at CPAC, Ron Paul. Paul has been associated with the JBS for many years, and even gave the main speech at their 50th anniversary convention.

And Ron Paul also has a regular segment on the Alex Jones conspiracy freakshow.

I just listened to a segment on NPR about CPAC. One thing they mentioned that hasn't been reported much is, when Ron Paul won the straw poll, he was roundly booed by the room.

re: #23 SixDegrees

I just listened to a segment on NPR about CPAC. One thing they mentioned that hasn't been reported much is, when Ron Paul won the straw poll, he was roundly booed by the room.

A report said only about 25% of the staw ballots were voted. What's that?

re: #23 SixDegrees

I just listened to a segment on NPR about CPAC. One thing they mentioned that hasn't been reported much is, when Ron Paul won the straw poll, he was roundly booed by the room.

At least we know where that 1.5% in national elections comes from. It is pretty astounding that they could get them all in a convention center at one time.

re: #24 Decatur Deb

A report said only about 25% of the staw ballots were voted. What's that?

About a quarter.
/

re: #23 SixDegrees

I just listened to a segment on NPR about CPAC. One thing they mentioned that hasn't been reported much is, when Ron Paul won the straw poll, he was roundly booed by the room.

He was sort of roundly cheered and booed at the same time. And while I was typing that, Weigel tweeted his Fresh Air interview. Is that what you heard?

re: #24 Decatur Deb

A report said only about 25% of the staw ballots were voted. What's that?

The bar was short on cocktail napkins. It happens.

re: #24 Decatur Deb

A report said only about 25% of the staw ballots were voted. What's that?

That just means that voter turnout amongst uber-conservatives is about 25%...even when they have a captive audience.

re: #24 Decatur Deb

A report said only about 25% of the staw ballots were voted. What's that?

They didn't discuss how the poll was conducted; they did mention it was "unscientific," meaning it wasn't a truly random sampling. The actual protocol used, though, wasn't mentioned.

Given Ron Paul and polls, I would put more credence in the booing than in the results.

Levin is indeed an on-air wildman and a rhetorical extremist but unlike, say, Beck or Ron Paul, he is not a fantasy ideologue.
He is well-grounded in modern conservative theory (Goldwater, Buckley, Reagan) and served in the Reagan administration as Chief of Staff to AG Edwin Meese.
He may tell you to "get off the phone you big dope," but he knows dangerous nuts when he sees them.

I find this slightly astonishing, given that Levin's entire shtick seems to be:
1) Play audio clip of someone saying something.
2) Say: "In other words,

[something not even close to what the person actually said]

."
3) YELL!
4) Story time! Read a passage from his latest book.
5) Call {Obama, Democrats, any branch of government that isn't military} a bunch of "tyrants."
6) Take a call.
7) repeat 2 through 5
8) Commercial!
9) repeat

Everything I've ever heard from Mark Levin seemed to indicate that his heart would swell with pride just at the mere mention of the JBS.

re: #27 wrenchwench

He was sort of roundly cheered and booed at the same time. And while I was typing that, Weigel tweeted his Fresh Air interview. Is that what you heard?

Might have been. It was in the car, and I didn't hear the show's tagline.

re: #19 DaddyG

Have at it...

/

re: #30 SixDegrees

They didn't discuss how the poll was conducted; they did mention it was "unscientific," meaning it wasn't a truly random sampling. The actual protocol used, though, wasn't mentioned.

Given Ron Paul and polls, I would put more credence in the booing than in the results.

I'm surprised they didn't just look at the results, look at the crowd, and then announce, "Mitt Romney got thirty seven per cent of the vote, and Sarah Palin got a hundred and eleventy!"

re: #22 darthstar

My guess is he wasn't laughing at the Pledge, but chuckling at the uber-patriotism as being kind of cute, in a "Did that kid just remind me to say grace?" kind of way.

I don't really think there's an appropriate place TO say the Pledge outside of school and citizenship ceremonies, and I think it's entirely optional in either case.

re: #30 SixDegrees

They didn't discuss how the poll was conducted; they did mention it was "unscientific," meaning it wasn't a truly random sampling. The actual protocol used, though, wasn't mentioned.

Given Ron Paul and polls, I would put more credence in the booing than in the results.

Are you suggesting that Ron Paul fans would stuff the ballot box? Inconceivable!

re: #27 wrenchwench

He was sort of roundly cheered and booed at the same time. And while I was typing that, Weigel tweeted his Fresh Air interview. Is that what you heard?

I expect that even at CPAC, very few people feel NEUTRAL about Ron Paul.

Good for Mark. He needs to spread this, get the message out to upcoming candidates. Paul, Beck and the JBS will drive the conservative cause to the nut hut.

re: #37 RogueOne

Are you suggesting that Ron Paul fans would stuff the ballot box? Inconceivable!

"Raymond Shaw Ron Paul is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."

Don't know much about Levin but I'll give him props because the Birchers are nuts and should be regarded as much.

Which of these things doesn't belong here:

Barry Goldwater Conservative
Constitutional Conservative
Reagan Conservative
Living People

*sigh*

Speaking of Ron Paul, it's been a fun day. So far, I've been compared to both Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity by rabid Ron Paul fanboys for saying the guy's a crackpot who is tied to the Birchers and Alex Jones. Oh, and for linking to the story about the Neo-Nazi pinheads liking Paul's victory at CPAC, and for saying that Ron Paul's ideas are unworkable fairy tales.

I couldn't help but laugh.

Apparently, I engage in the same "smear by association" tactics that those two Fox News blowhards do because I point out the truth about Paul and his ideas. What fun. Heh.

re: #32 negativ

[...]Everything I've ever heard from Mark Levin seemed to indicate that his heart would swell with pride just at the mere mention of the JBS.

Just because people are in the same business doesn't make them allies. "I'm working this street corner, bitch--scram!"

re: #39 Nadnerb

I predict he'll be called "Marx Levin" and all sorts of other crap soon. Look for oblique rhetorical references to Judaism.

re: #40 SixDegrees

"Raymond Shaw Ron Paul is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."

Awesome movie. Props.

re: #43 Lidane

Just remember this line: He smeared himself by his associations.

re: #42 DaddyG

Which of these things doesn't belong here:

Barry Goldwater Conservative
Constitutional Conservative
Reagan Conservative
Living People

*sigh*

Hey, I'm not dead yet! There must be, oh, at least 10 or 12 Goldwater conservatives still out there. Somewhere.

re: #48 shiplord kirel

Hey, I'm not dead yet! There must be, oh, at least 10 or 12 Goldwater conservatives still out there. Somewhere.

Dibs on party secretary!

re: #49 DaddyG

Dibs on party secretary!

I get to be treasurer! (please, no books though...I hate bookkeeping)

re: #47 wrenchwench

Just remember this line: He smeared himself by his associations.

Very true, but my personal favorite line of the day is this one--

Ron Paul: the most promising Republican candidate since Harold Stassen.

Heh.

re: #48 shiplord kirel

Hey, I'm not dead yet! There must be, oh, at least 10 or 12 Goldwater conservatives still out there. Somewhere.

Yeah but Goldwater and Reagan themselves aren't.

re: #48 shiplord kirel

One of them is Secretary Of State...

///

re: #48 shiplord kirel

You know that the Birchers really liked Goldwater, right?

[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]

And when Buckley condemned the Birch Society, Goldwater didn't. He just condemned the leader:

I think you have clearly stated the problem which Mr. Welch’s continued leadership of the John Birch Society poses for sincere conservatives. . . . Mr. Welch is only one man, and I do not believe his views, far removed from reality and common sense as they are, represent the feelings of most members of the John Birch Society. . . . Because of this, I believe the best thing Mr. Welch could do to serve the cause of anti-Communism in the United States would be to resign. . . . We cannot allow the emblem of irresponsibility to attach to the conservative banner.

[Link: www.fortliberty.org...]

I'm taking off home for the day. If I don't make it back, it's nat'l pancake day, everyone enjoy the rest of the evening.

re: #30 SixDegrees

They didn't discuss how the poll was conducted; they did mention it was "unscientific," meaning it wasn't a truly random sampling. The actual protocol used, though, wasn't mentioned.

Given Ron Paul and polls, I would put more credence in the booing than in the results.

Probably slips of paper left on every seat. Turn them in to the lady when you leave the room. Ha!

Someone has to come out and call Ron Paul a reactionary because that is exactly what he is. Oh and the man he endorsed for president, Chuck Baldwin has emerged as an apologist for terrorist Joseph Stack.

JBSer annoys young people at CPAC:

re: #54 Obdicut

By the way, I don't endorse Fort Liberty as a website. I really need to start linking to google caches. Apologies.

re: #57 HappyWarrior

Someone has to come out and call Ron Paul a reactionary because that is exactly what he is. Oh and the man he endorsed for president, Chuck Baldwin has emerged as an apologist for terrorist Joseph Stack.

You know, after years and years of being told that the LEFT are apologists for terrorism, this Stack business is causing me to do a slow, simmering boil.

re: #59 Obdicut

By the way, I don't endorse Fort Liberty as a website. I really need to start linking to google caches. Apologies.

Yeah, we kinda figured. ; )

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

Mandy, Irish Rose was here earlier. She lost your email. Resend it to her.
Sorry for the interruption, peeps.

and MANDY
If you don't have it, I do, I'll send it to you.

re: #49 DaddyG

re: #50 darthstar

Can y'all imagine Barry at the just-concluded CPAC?

Slavering mob: BOO! Get out of here! Sarah! Sarah! RONPAUL! RONPAUL!
Barry: Are you nuts?
Slavering mob: Queer-lover! Baby-killer!
Barry: Yeah, you're goddamn fucking nuts!

re: #62 reine.de.tout

and MANDY
If you don't have it, I do, I'll send it to you.

Thanks, Reine.

re: #56 Stanley Sea

Probably slips of paper left on every seat. Turn them in to the lady when you leave the room. Ha!

Couldn't find the methodology, but saw that the 2900 or so votes made the largest return in CPAC history. Perhaps they just don't like the poll process.

Omigosh -- just saw this in the article linked upthread:

he is running to replace Democratic U.S. Rep. Henry Waxman in a neighboring district.

We aren't going to have "Witchunt" Waxman to kick around anymore? No more investigations into steroids etc? What the heck is the world coming to...

McCain = Radical Progressive
Hot Air = Not Conservative Enough
Mark Levin = Dissin CPAC
Varek Raith = Mah haid hertz!

re: #24 Decatur Deb

The rest were stuffed into man-shaped clothing bags and then soundly beaten...

re: #66 Thanos

Omigosh -- just saw this in the article linked upthread:

We aren't going to have "Witchunt" Waxman to kick around anymore? No more investigations into steroids etc? What the heck is the world coming to...

He and his amazing nostrils will be missed...

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

the modern *conservative* really doesn't classify any white middle class American man as a terrorist or potential terrorist... they are "freedom fighters", or "honest men pushed to the edge"...

I don't think any mainstream media-con will call the Stack thing terrorism... if they do i will eat one of my many and assorted hats.

I don't see that incoherence in politics has ever really bothered the average American voter.

Ronald Reagan's first term springs to mind.

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, after years and years of being told that the LEFT are apologists for terrorism, this Stack business is causing me to do a slow, simmering boil.

I went straight past simmering boil and into full-on rage over that stuff. It's galling.

What's worse is all this simpering, hand-wringing bullshit over the definition of terrorism and whether or not it applies to Stack. WTF? The last time I checked, deliberately slamming a plane into a building filled with innocent people in order to make an incoherent political point was considered an act of terrorism. Why is that any different with Stack?

All I want is some consistency. If Tim McVeigh, Eric Robert Rudolph, and Ted Kaczynski are all considered terrorists, then Joe Stack is one too. There shouldn't be some separate standard because he wrapped his selfish and self-absorbed actions in a bunch of incoherent populist ranting.

Kaczynski wrote long, incoherent manifestos too. That didn't make him any less of a terrorist. It's just that all this stupid teabagger shit has people making excuses for what was clearly a terrorist act because the upper middle class white guy who slammed a plane into a building whined about his taxes and about being screwed over by the government. It's ridiculous.

Sorry for ranting. Just had to vent a bit. :)

re: #54 Obdicut

I am aware of that. So what? This was during the lead-up to the 1964 campaign, when Goldwater was almost a lone voice in the Rockefeller-dominated national GOP. Goldwater felt the need for a well-organized and ideologically committed base to get his campaign rolling. He sought to split the JBS membership from the leadership by associating the organization's extremism and conspiracy claims with the leadership including Welch.

This was a mistake, since there was no such schism within the JBS to be exploited, but it was worth a try in the context of the time. The JBS continued to back Goldwater through the campaign, doing much more harm than good imho, but they definitely did not support him for the remaining 25 years of his public career.

re: #72 Lidane

Not a rant when you articulated exactly what I'm thinking.

Gah.

[Link: sports.yahoo.com...]

re: #73 shiplord kirel

It was because of JBS that the Daisy ad was so effective against Goldwater.

Good afternoon!

Snowing in South Austin, not in Vancouver.

Gotta love El Nino winters!

re: #72 Lidane

I went straight past simmering boil and into full-on rage over that stuff. It's galling.

What's worse is all this simpering, hand-wringing bullshit over the definition of terrorism and whether or not it applies to Stack. WTF? The last time I checked, deliberately slamming a plane into a building filled with innocent people in order to make an incoherent political point was considered an act of terrorism. Why is that any different with Stack?

All I want is some consistency. If Tim McVeigh, Eric Robert Rudolph, and Ted Kaczynski are all considered terrorists, then Joe Stack is one too. There shouldn't be some separate standard because he wrapped his selfish and self-absorbed actions in a bunch of incoherent populist ranting.

Kaczynski wrote long, incoherent manifestos too. That didn't make him any less of a terrorist. It's just that all this stupid teabagger shit has people making excuses for what was clearly a terrorist act because the upper middle class white guy who slammed a plane into a building whined about his taxes and about being screwed over by the government. It's ridiculous.

Sorry for ranting. Just had to vent a bit. :)

Nothing wrong with this rant. You're speaking exactly where I am coming from. It should also be pointed out that Stack's victim, Vernon Hunter was a father, Vietnam War vet, and was planning to use his retirement to help teach learning disabled kids. Yet people are all caught up in pseudo revolutionary bullshit because they don't like who's in charge of the government. What's worse is once someone like gets power in the government they will be the most nosiest trying to shut off dissent against that person.

re: #77 austin_blue

Good afternoon!

Snowing in South Austin, not in Vancouver.

Gotta love El Nino winters!

Yes, kicked our asses in Virgina, it has...
:)

re: #6 Obdicut

With this and the Hot Air thing and the Malkin calling out McCain for being a radical progressive thing, it's turning out to be a day full of things.

I mean, a day full of internecine strife in the kookosphere.

But props to Levine on this.

Not really... I heard the broadcast when he made this statement, and his quickly went on to other issues, and did talk about CPAC in a positive way.

At least for the moment, he's made his statement and seems to be playing hands off.

I hope he continues, but I don't think so. He's like most of these other high profile media folks, ratings and sponsors are more important than truth.

re: #72 Lidane

I went straight past simmering boil and into full-on rage over that stuff. It's galling.

What's worse is all this simpering, hand-wringing bullshit over the definition of terrorism and whether or not it applies to Stack. WTF? The last time I checked, deliberately slamming a plane into a building filled with innocent people in order to make an incoherent political point was considered an act of terrorism. Why is that any different with Stack?

All I want is some consistency. If Tim McVeigh, Eric Robert Rudolph, and Ted Kaczynski are all considered terrorists, then Joe Stack is one too. There shouldn't be some separate standard because he wrapped his selfish and self-absorbed actions in a bunch of incoherent populist ranting.

Kaczynski wrote long, incoherent manifestos too. That didn't make him any less of a terrorist. It's just that all this stupid teabagger shit has people making excuses for what was clearly a terrorist act because the upper middle class white guy who slammed a plane into a building whined about his taxes and about being screwed over by the government. It's ridiculous.

Sorry for ranting. Just had to vent a bit. :)

In ... (what's the Latin word for "rage?) veritas.

re: #79 Varek Raith

Yes, kicked our asses in Virgina, it has...
:)

In Florida an unusually cold winter has tried to destroy crops (orange, strawberries, etc) has killed manatees and sea turtles as well as sea coral.

re: #82 Cannadian Club Akbar

In Florida an unusually cold winter has tried to destroy crops (orange, strawberries, etc) has killed manatees and sea turtles as well as sea coral.

Who's going to write the Family Guy episodes now?

re: #73 shiplord kirel

Goldwater felt the need for a well-organized and ideologically committed base to get his campaign rolling. He sought to split the JBS membership from the leadership by associating the organization's extremism and conspiracy claims with the leadership including Welch.

I wasn't claiming they always liked him, just that, well, exactly what you said-- he rather cynically, in my opinion, tried to grab them by ousting Welch as their leader, but why on earth would he think people who were attracted to such an organization and such a leader would be good supporters?

re: #83 SixDegrees

Who's going to write the Family Guy episodes now?

Those manatees are in Los Angeles, not Florida.

re: #85 ArchangelMichael

Those manatees are in Los Angeles, not Florida.

Oh.

re: #70 wozzablog

the modern *conservative* really doesn't classify any white middle class American man as a terrorist or potential terrorist... they are "freedom fighters", or "honest men pushed to the edge"...

I don't think any mainstream media-con will call the Stack thing terrorism... if they do i will eat one of my many and assorted hats.

I just googled. Beck apparently called it terrorism last week. Has he changed his tune this week? Can I pick out the hat?

re: #86 SixDegrees

And the ones names "Hugh" have been in New Jersey since at least 1937...

;)

re: #81 jamesfirecat

In ... (what's the Latin word for "rage?) veritas.

Furor? I don't know if that's the proper form, though. Cato will know.

re: #77 austin_blue

snowed at my GF's office in northern SanAntone... but nothing in the back yard though 10 minutes drive away...

re: #87 Claire

I just googled. Beck apparently called it terrorism last week. Has he changed his tune this week? Can I pick out the hat?

Apparently Beck did call it terrorism, but compared Stack to White House advisors. I think he thinks Stack is a terrorist, but has IDed him as a left-winger.

I guess that counts, but it should be a hat with no feathers on it.

re: #87 Claire

I just googled. Beck apparently called it terrorism last week. Has he changed his tune this week? Can I pick out the hat?

Oh, this is good though. Point for Beck:

We have no idea what this man’s ideology was…he could be from the left, he hates capitalism, he has an anti-business creed that goes on and on. It sounds like anything you could hear in a speech from Van Jones. When you read his anti-tax ravings and his anti-tax or IRS stuff it sounds like you could be reading bumper stickers off the cars or the signs of the Tea Party. We have no idea. But here’s the point. I have no idea if he’s left or right. Is he a communist or a radical constitutionalist. Here’s the point: it doesn’t matter. The guy is a killer.

Beck went on to compare Stack to Osama bin Laden and Timothy McVeigh and warned against rationalizing any of their actions: “I don’t like the IRS either, but I don’t kill people.”

re: #84 Obdicut

I wasn't claiming they always liked him, just that, well, exactly what you said-- he rather cynically, in my opinion, tried to grab them by ousting Welch as their leader, but why on earth would he think people who were attracted to such an organization and such a leader would be good supporters?

Keep in mind that the JBS was relatively new at the time and had grown very quickly. Welch was an expert publicist and marketeer. Then, as now, they did not place great emphasis on their underlying conspiracist beliefs, though they did not conceal them quite as assiduously as they do in the 21st century.

Goldwater may have felt that a great many people had jumped on the JBS's anti-communist bandwagon without being fully aware of the underlying worldview. I was just a teenager at the time, but it certainly looked that way to me. I was aware of the society and its underlying craziness partly because of my relationship with Sam Rayburn, whom Welch had accused of being a commie tool.

The JBS's real agenda was not a secret, but this was the golden age of marketing, when advertising pros like Welch could perform miracles of manipulation. Goldwater could well have supposed that the lack of emphasis on the underlying agenda in the JBS's public presentation may have duped many of the members. Again, this turned out to be wrong (though JBS membership did fall precipitously among the influential) but it would have been a logical supposition given what Goldwater knew at the time.

Interesting...
[Link: thehill.com...]

re: #87 Claire

If you've got the direct quote i've got the straw boater...

re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist

Furor? I don't know if that's the proper form, though. Cato will know.

Furor works.

How would we look in Rome?

[Link: intertran.tranexp.com...]

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

Glenn Beck is a relativist cnut.

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, this is good though. Point for Beck:

We have no idea what this man’s ideology was…he could be from the left, he hates capitalism, he has an anti-business creed that goes on and on. It sounds like anything you could hear in a speech from Van Jones. When you read his anti-tax ravings and his anti-tax or IRS stuff it sounds like you could be reading bumper stickers off the cars or the signs of the Tea Party. We have no idea. But here’s the point. I have no idea if he’s left or right. Is he a communist or a radical constitutionalist. Here’s the point: it doesn’t matter. The guy is a killer.

Beck went on to compare Stack to Osama bin Laden and Timothy McVeigh and warned against rationalizing any of their actions: “I don’t like the IRS either, but I don’t kill people.”

Credit should go where credit is due. I think Beck's a nutjob but he's right on in this matter. Beck forgets though that the far right hates captialism as well though but that's a relative trivial matter since he's not claiming him to be a left winger. What I hate about this and stories like this is how people like Stack get more attention than the victims or the heroes. Robin Dehaven, the glass worker who used his ladder to save all those people actually posted on the facebook group I joined that thanks him for what he did. Shows just how interconnected the world now is.

I want to have RDJ's babies.

re: #87 Claire

come to think of it... does Beck self identify as "conservative"... i thought he was one of those "constitutionalists"...

/

re: #100 wozzablog

come to think of it... does Beck self identify as "conservative"... i thought he was one of those "constitutionalists"...

/

I think he's just incontinent.

re: #100 wozzablog

come to think of it... does Beck self identify as "conservative"... i thought he was one of those "constitutionalists"...

/

Glenn Beck -C
(clown party)

re: #101 darthstar

re: #102 HoosierHoops

those tooo

re: #94 Cannadian Club Akbar

Interesting...
[Link: thehill.com...]

Definitely interesting. From the article:

Republicans say they have found a loophole in the budget reconciliation process that could allow them to offer an indefinite number of amendments.

Though it has never been done, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) says he’s prepared to test the Senate’s stamina to block the Democrats from using the process to expedite changes to the healthcare bill.

Experts on Senate procedural rules, from both parties, note that such a filibuster is possible. While reconciliation rules limit debate to 20 hours, senators lack similiar constraints on amendments and could conceivably continue offering them until 60 members agree to cut the process off.

The trick here is they have to come up with enough amendments to the bill to drag it out . Smart amendments. Must see democracy!

re: #104 Stanley Sea

The trick here is they have to come up with enough amendments to the bill to drag it out . Smart amendments. Must see democracy!

Something I doubt has ever been done. Not sure of the allotted time to present each amendment.

re: #104 Stanley Sea

The trick here is they have to come up with enough amendments to the bill to drag it out . Smart amendments. Must see democracy!

So... the GOP is going to continue more of the obstructionist tactics that have backfired on them over and over so far?

Speaking of babies.
[Link: www.sltrib.com...]

wow.
Now that's a law that will never be used in the wrong way.

R. Paul is on MSNBC, the host said he was going to ask him about the booing at CPAC.

re: #93 shiplord kirel

It still involves him thinking that JBS members didn't believe what the JBS society did, which seems to me like an awfully risky assumption. And it turns out, as you say, that it was a bad assumption to make.

I'm not trying to hammer you or anything on this, I'm just trying to note that historically, "Goldwater Conservatives" were at one point largely Birchers.

Jed Lewison from dKos does a nice collage of Fox News trying to un-spin the Ron Paul victory at CPAC...It's worth watching. First, they say he got boos and jeers, then as that 31% keeps glowing brighter than the other numbers, they move on to "most were students who voted" and other efforts to minimize their embarrassment. But the best part is when some young lumberjack-Republican is on Fox&Friends and says that the "Glenn Becks, Ann Coulters, and you guys" are the future of the GOP. That gets both hosts to sit back as if they were actually offended by their inclusion.

My day just gets better and better. I've now been told that I am a thick-headed hypocrite whose words are cancerous lies. All for criticizing St. Ron of Paul. I love fanboys. They get so defensive it's hilarious.

Cancerous lies. I never knew I had that kind of power. At this rate, they'll tell me my words can kill the elderly, ravage the world economy, and destroy the ozone layer. Awesome. Maybe I should talk more about how the [insert commodity here] standard is a horrible idea. That ought to get them going. XD

re: #110 darthstar

yes the young people did it. they act like college students can't vote.

re: #104 Stanley Sea

The trick here is they have to come up with enough amendments to the bill to drag it out . Smart amendments. Must see democracy!

Well, that, and they have to convince their entire membership to lock formation and not waver at all. Not an easy task.

Rather than concentrating on individual battles, the GOP needs to come up with an overall strategy of their own, beginning with an alternative plan, or cogent explanations of why they are opposed to what's offered.

OT: Cool news! Saab's not dead after all! I always liked driving Saabs and I was worried GM would ruin the brand (hell, they almost killed it).

re: #5 Charles

A lot of people don't seem to realize that one of the people most responsible for promoting the John Birch Society back into the mainstream is the other big star at CPAC, Ron Paul. Paul has been associated with the JBS for many years, and even gave the main speech at their 50th anniversary convention.

And Ron Paul also has a regular segment on the Alex Jones conspiracy freakshow.

Most don't care about that unfortunately. They believe the filth being spread.

re: #113 SixDegrees

Well, that, and they have to convince their entire membership to lock formation and not waver at all. Not an easy task.

Rather than concentrating on individual battles, the GOP needs to come up with an overall strategy of their own, beginning with an alternative plan, or cogent explanations of why they are opposed to what's offered.

I posted this yesterday, I think.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

*rolls eyes*

Beck, Levin, Rush and some others are all entertainers with enough common conservative/constitutionalists substance to keep audience's listening.

They are clever, informed and know how to turn a phrase.
They are too smart and well paid to run for office, even if Lou Dobbs threatens too.

The fact that they drive all Democrats and increasingly more Republicans crazy, just adds to the fun.

When they speak the truth it hurts and we all understand that.

re: #111 Lidane

My day just gets better and better. I've now been told that I am a thick-headed hypocrite whose words are cancerous lies. All for criticizing St. Ron of Paul. I love fanboys. They get so defensive it's hilarious.

Cancerous lies. I never knew I had that kind of power. At this rate, they'll tell me my words can kill the elderly, ravage the world economy, and destroy the ozone layer. Awesome. Maybe I should talk more about how the [insert commodity here] standard is a horrible idea. That ought to get them going. XD

And where were you words called "cancerous lies?" I can't seem to find that reference on this thread?

More advice to Beck from Levin
Levin also warned Beck to be wary of the mainstream media and told the Fox News host to stop “acting like a clown.”

“The mainstream media is not your friend. It will promote you for the purpose of destroying you,” he said, seemingly alluding to the somewhat favorable coverage of Beck’s speech. “Be careful playing footsie with the mainstream media.”

“Decide what you are,” Levin added, “A circus clown, self-identified, or a thoughtful and wise person. It’s hard to be both.”

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

re: #115 LudwigVanQuixote

Most don't care about that unfortunately. They believe the filth being spread.

I think you mean "most Paulians."

re: #120 Rightwingconspirator

More advice to Beck from Levin
Levin also warned Beck to be wary of the mainstream media and told the Fox News host to stop “acting like a clown.”

“The mainstream media is not your friend. It will promote you for the purpose of destroying you,” he said, seemingly alluding to the somewhat favorable coverage of Beck’s speech. “Be careful playing footsie with the mainstream media.”

“Decide what you are,” Levin added, “A circus clown, self-identified, or a thoughtful and wise person. It’s hard to be both.”

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

I don't' trust Levin at all. A few weeks ago he was praising Beck.

re: #119 Walter L. Newton

And where were you words called "cancerous lies?" I can't seem to find that reference on this thread?

Oh, it's not here. I'm debating some Ron Paul fanboys on LiveJournal and laughing about it.

Yes, it's OT for the thread at large, but because CPAC has been the topic of conversation over there, it's at least tangentially relevant. Maybe. Either way, it's been my entertainment for the day. :)

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, this is good though. Point for Beck:

We have no idea what this man’s ideology was…he could be from the left, he hates capitalism, he has an anti-business creed that goes on and on. It sounds like anything you could hear in a speech from Van Jones. When you read his anti-tax ravings and his anti-tax or IRS stuff it sounds like you could be reading bumper stickers off the cars or the signs of the Tea Party. We have no idea. But here’s the point. I have no idea if he’s left or right. Is he a communist or a radical constitutionalist. Here’s the point: it doesn’t matter. The guy is a killer.

Beck went on to compare Stack to Osama bin Laden and Timothy McVeigh and warned against rationalizing any of their actions: “I don’t like the IRS either, but I don’t kill people.”

It is not as much of a point though as one would like.

McVeigh was as far right and neo nazi as they come. Stack is clearly far right also. Yet, Beck manages to still in a slimy way compare him to van Jones and other liberal whipping boys.

It is only a point for Beck in as much as he does not like neo-nazi scum, but he is clearly not above the "nazis are leftists" bullshit.

He is also cleary not above trying to use the name to falsely stigmatize others.

re: #116 Cannadian Club Akbar

I posted this yesterday, I think.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Good article. I'd add that the Republicans could seize part of the initiative by insisting that the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of waste and fraud that were identified by the Democrats in Medicare and Medicaid, whose elimination was supposed to largely fund their original proposal, be addressed separately and immediately. It's unconscionable that so much waste has been found, yet nothing is being done to curtail it. I'd think it would be addressed no matter what other legislation it happened to be attached to.

re: #122 Walter L. Newton

I don't' trust Levin at all. A few weeks ago he was praising Beck.

Oh Levin is a raving nut case. He just has a bit of sanity here.

re: #123 Lidane

Oh, it's not here. I'm debating some Ron Paul fanboys on LiveJournal and laughing about it.

Yes, it's OT for the thread at large, but because CPAC has been the topic of conversation over there, it's at least tangentially relevant. Maybe. Either way, it's been my entertainment for the day. :)

Oh... I was just wondering, because I was going to smack some ass for that kind of rhetoric.

You can disagree with someone without using that kind of language... we... some people can't, but anyway.

re: #122 Walter L. Newton

Praising Beck for something specific or in general?

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

Is there any radio pundit that doers not deserve that description from time to time?

re: #125 SixDegrees

I wish we'd finally do the Cheney review of military spending that we were going to do before 9/11, too, speaking of immense amounts of waste and fraud.

laters kids, happy trails... just dlearing round before the GF gets home, doing the dutiful house husband thang

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh Levin is a raving nut case. He just has a bit of sanity here.

And I tire of the "tempo" of his show. About 20 minutes into each half hour, he will blast off almost on schedule. Twenty after the hour and 50 minutes into the hour, he builds his pace and then explodes.

It's contrived, transparent and insincere. To much of an actor, and no real action. I don't trust someone who can turn the hate on and off like that. Comes across as a real phony to me.

(Not like me for instance, Mr. Crankypants 24 hours a day, and proud of it)

re: #128 Rightwingconspirator

Praising Beck for something specific or in general?

I don't remember, just that he was talking about something positive in regards to Beck. I turn Levin on occasionally when I get annoyed with Michael Brown (ex-FEMA head) on KOA in the evenings.

You know what radio show I miss? Phil Hendry.

re: #125 SixDegrees

Good article. I'd add that the Republicans could seize part of the initiative by insisting that the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of waste and fraud that were identified by the Democrats in Medicare and Medicaid, whose elimination was supposed to largely fund their original proposal, be addressed separately and immediately.

Too busy complaining the HC bill is too big and then whining the President's proposal is too small.
Or telling the President that he better put his HC proposal on-line at least 72 hours before the Thursday meeting and then whining that he has one and ruined the meeting for them.
Assholes.
Useless, whiney assholes.

re: #134 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hah! Me too.

re: #134 Cannadian Club Akbar

You know what radio show I miss? Phil Hendry.

How do you know it was really Phil Hendry?

re: #137 Walter L. Newton

How do you know it was really Phil Hendry?

He had Michael Schermer as a guest. (no one will get that)

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

It is not as much of a point though as one would like.

McVeigh was as far right and neo nazi as they come. Stack is clearly far right also. Yet, Beck manages to still in a slimy way compare him to van Jones and other liberal whipping boys.

It is only a point for Beck in as much as he does not like neo-nazi scum, but he is clearly not above the "nazis are leftists" bullshit.

He is also cleary not above trying to use the name to falsely stigmatize others.

That's true, but he made a better moral point than Scott Brown managed to.

XKCD aproponess:

[Link: xkcd.com...]

re: #127 Walter L. Newton

That's cool. If it was here, I'd reference whatever post it was. It's no big deal-- just a couple of really earnest college students who are starry eyed over Ron Paul, Austrian economics, and the gold standard. I can handle them just fine.

At this point, I'm needling them more than anything else-- throwing out YouTube videos of Nixon ending the convertibility of the dollar into gold, pointing out the JBS/Ron Paul connection and all the loony stuff that the Campaign For Liberty sponsored at CPAC, etc. Anything to make the work day go faster. ;)

[Link: www.wnd.com...]

world nut daily suspects beck is a global warming believer and doesn't like him palling around with lefties. beck has to deny that he ever used fluorescent light bulbs. priceless.

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

And I tire of the "tempo" of his show. About 20 minutes into each half hour, he will blast off almost on schedule. Twenty after the hour and 50 minutes into the hour, he builds his pace and then explodes.

It's contrived, transparent and insincere. To much of an actor, and no real action. I don't trust someone who can turn the hate on and off like that. Comes across as a real phony to me.

(Not like me for instance, Mr. Crankypants 24 hours a day, and proud of it)

I love his *quiet hushed tone* then *LOUD COMMANDING STATEMENT!* then *quiet hushed tone* then *LOUD COMMANDING STATEMENT!*, over and over again, for the whole show segment. Sprinkle liberally with bits that start out sounding like his normal rhetoric and then end up as a commercial for Goldline.

So the Stimulus actually did create/save jobs?
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

re: #134 Cannadian Club Akbar

You know what radio show I miss? Phil Hendry.

Dude! No reason to miss Phil Hendrie, his show is on the air now. I listen every night, and I have a subscription to his website. I've been a fan for 1 years, pretty much the only radio show I like these days.

re: #142 zora

[Link: www.wnd.com...]

world nut daily suspects beck is a global warming believer and doesn't like him palling around with lefties. beck has to deny that he ever used fluorescent light bulbs. priceless.

Actually, that interview where he talks about the CFL lightbulbs is in the Sunday morning insert (USA Today, I guess), not with WND.

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

You might like this one, Stack's ranting manifesto "translated."

re: #129 Rightwingconspirator

Is there any radio pundit that doers not deserve that description from time to time?

Rachel Maddow.

re: #147 ausador

You might like this one, Stack's ranting manifesto "translated."

Heh. That's pretty good.

on his morning show he was explaining away his usa today interview.

On fluorescent light bulbs, Beck explained that the bulbs were there when he bought his house, and he removed them.

"There's no way I put those fluorescent light bulbs in my house. I hate them."

re: #150 zora

on his morning show he was explaining away his usa today interview.

On fluorescent light bulbs, Beck explained that the bulbs were there when he bought his house, and he removed them.

"There's no way I put those fluorescent light bulbs in my house. I hate them."

I like them. The ones I've installed have lasted for years.
:)

re: #147 ausador

You might like this one, Stack's ranting manifesto "translated."

"I am a special snowflake" summarizes it completely.

re: #144 webevintage

So the Stimulus actually did create/save jobs?
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Of course not! It didn't create a single job! It probably destroyed jobs! It only created government jobs! All those teachers would have kept their jobs even without the stimulus. Hahahaha!!!

/I don't know.

re: #150 zora

on his morning show he was explaining away his usa today interview.

On fluorescent light bulbs, Beck explained that the bulbs were there when he bought his house, and he removed them.

"There's no way I put those fluorescent light bulbs in my house. I hate them."

hahah that's one thing I can agree with him on, flourescents sort of irritate me as well.

re: #152 MandyManners

I like, "I am unable to solve problems, so instead I create them." too.

re: #152 MandyManners

"I am a special snowflake" summarizes it completely.

"IM SPESHUL SNOWFLAEK"
;)

re: #142 zora

[Link: www.wnd.com...]

world nut daily suspects beck is a global warming believer and doesn't like him palling around with lefties. beck has to deny that he ever used fluorescent light bulbs. priceless.

Yes it is an article of faith amongst the wingnuts that the science is a lie. That alone should tell you how sane they are.

re: #147 ausador

There are fewer employment opportunities in Austin for psychotic, tax-evading contract engineers compared with California. This was news to me.

Heh.

re: #157 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes it is an article of faith amongst the wingnuts that the science is a lie. That alone should tell you how sane they are.

Why should I like science? It says my warp drive's impossible.
/Jerk.
//:)

re: #150 zora

"There's no way I put those fluorescent light bulbs in my house. I hate them."

Idiot.
We actually saw a difference in the amount of money we pay each month for electricity when we changed to fluorescent light bulbs.

Upding Levin. I still think your radio show sucks, but I'm happy you 'came out' against the Birchers.

Has Stack's grown daughter spouted off lately?

re: #162 MandyManners

Has Stack's grown daughter spouted off lately?

Apparently.. Insanity runs in the family

re: #163 HoosierHoops

Apparently.. Insanity runs in the family

Oh?

re: #154 WindUpBird

hahah that's one thing I can agree with him on, flourescents sort of irritate me as well.

You may be uncomfortable living in the UK or any other EU province as the incandescent bulbs are now under an 'Europe' wide ban with the 100watt bulbs being the first victim.

light-bulbs banned

re: #160 webevintage

Idiot.
We actually saw a difference in the amount of money we pay each month for electricity when we changed to fluorescent light bulbs.

So, someone is an idiot because they don't like the same kind of light bulbs you do?

re: #166 Cannadian Club Akbar

I don't like them either.

re: #166 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, someone is an idiot because they don't like the same kind of light bulbs you do?

I'm not even going to tell him I don't like the same kind of coffee he does. No telling what I'll be called!!

// (,,,or not!!)

re: #167 MandyManners

I don't like them either.

Miss Idiot!!

///

re: #168 sattv4u2

I'm not even going to tell him I don't like the same kind of coffee he does. No telling what I'll be called!!

// (,,,or not!!)

Tim Horton's coffee RULES!!!

I am currently under a ban on letting anyone out of my seventh-block study hall. I may, actually, lose my mind right here.

re: #169 sattv4u2

Miss Idiot!!

///

That's "Ms".

re: #165 Bagua

You may be uncomfortable living in the UK or any other EU province as the incandescent bulbs are now under an 'Europe' wide ban with the 100watt bulbs being the first victim.

light-bulbs banned

Aren't we in the U.S. also under a time-line? I thought incandescents were outlawed, eventually, here too.

re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar

He had Michael Schermer as a guest. (no one will get that)

All Phil Hendry's guests are Phil Hendry.

re: #172 MandyManners

That's "Ms".

Sorry ,,, I "miss"ed the Ms!

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

I am currently under a ban on letting anyone out of my seventh-block study hall. I may, actually, lose my mind right here.

Taser. You need a taser... or tear gas.
/

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

I am currently under a ban on letting anyone out of my seventh-block study hall. I may, actually, lose my mind right here.

It you lose it we'll help you find it again.

re: #174 Alouette

All Phil Hendry's guests are Phil Hendry.

I know. Made a point to Walter that was in the parentheses that no one would get the inside joke. I listened to Phil for years.

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

I am currently under a ban on letting anyone out of my seventh-block study hall. I may, actually, lose my mind right here.

Are these the kids!?!?

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

re: #173 RogueOne

Aren't we in the U.S. also under a time-line? I thought incandescents were outlawed, eventually, here too.

I'm stocking up...I love incandescent light and the heat it produces. Just try running an Easy-Bake oven with a 15 watt flourescent...

I have to sign off soon, but I would like to ask a serious question for people to ponder in relation to DPAC and all the crazy that we see.

The question is about what we consider just and good in our society and about logical consistency.

So let's start with something I think all Lizards can agree with.

We have a large amount of problems with the Saudis because they do really nasty things like make theocracies, deny basic human rights, finance terrorism etc... it is a long list.

Yet we are the ones who pay them to do these things.

And let's look at the Saudi financing of terrorism. Surely we think that is horrible and evil.

Why? Because paying for doing something evil is well evil in of itself.

Yet buying blod diamonds or blodd gold which finances equally brutal and terrible things is not evil when we do it?

And what about torture.

We despise the Saudis and the Norks for torture. But it is not evil when we do it?

I realize how much of a pain in the ass I am when I wrote these things. No one likes being told that they are a party to evil or that what they do is evil. It is a great word for other people.

But now that we are past that. And given that I accept my own many imperfections, here is the question.

If you acknowledge an act as evil, and you acknowledge that when someone else does it, they are evil too, on what basis does your doing it suddenly cleanse the sin of its stain?

re: #160 webevintage

Idiot.
We actually saw a difference in the amount of money we pay each month for electricity when we changed to fluorescent light bulbs.

Way too harsh.

I've switched over pretty much my whole house to CFLs over the last few years, and I've also noticed about a 20% reduction in year-over-year energy bills when compared against my incandescent past. And the CFLs last forever - I've yet to replace one, where several locations would have required several ordinary bulb replacements by now. The only place I still have incandescent bulbs are a couple of fixtures that simply won't accommodate the CFL form factor.

But the definitely bother some people. I'm not sure if it's the color or maybe the high frequency flickering they produce, but quite a few people find them objectionable, and can pick them out in an instant, even when the bulbs themselves aren't visible and they haven't been told they're in use. I believe this is a real, valid complaint whose cause is, currently, unknown.

They don't bother me at all, but I'm not everyone.

re: #179 sattv4u2

Are these the kids!?!?

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

More like Animal House.

re: #165 Bagua

You may be uncomfortable living in the UK or any other EU province as the incandescent bulbs are now under an 'Europe' wide ban with the 100watt bulbs being the first victim.

light-bulbs banned

Black market light bulb market!

The reason I don't like flourescents is they show color strangely when I'm painting. It's not as huge a deal as it used to be because I work digitally now, but they still bug me.

re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist

More like Animal House.

What's their age group?

re: #182 SixDegrees

Way too harsh.

I've switched over pretty much my whole house to CFLs over the last few years, and I've also noticed about a 20% reduction in year-over-year energy bills when compared against my incandescent past. And the CFLs last forever - I've yet to replace one, where several locations would have required several ordinary bulb replacements by now. The only place I still have incandescent bulbs are a couple of fixtures that simply won't accommodate the CFL form factor.

But the definitely bother some people. I'm not sure if it's the color or maybe the high frequency flickering they produce, but quite a few people find them objectionable, and can pick them out in an instant, even when the bulbs themselves aren't visible and they haven't been told they're in use. I believe this is a real, valid complaint whose cause is, currently, unknown.

They don't bother me at all, but I'm not everyone.

They drive me bonkers.

re: #173 RogueOne

Aren't we in the U.S. also under a time-line? I thought incandescents were outlawed, eventually, here too.

The 2008 energy bill has a section banning incandescent light bulbs starting in 2012 and all gone by 2014.

So yea, get used to fluorescent light.

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

PIMF

I have to sign off soon, but I would like to ask a serious question for people to ponder in relation to CPAC and all the crazy that we see.

The question is about what we consider just and good in our society and about logical consistency.

So let's start with something I think all Lizards can agree with.

We have a large amount of problems with the Saudis because they do really nasty things like make theocracies, deny basic human rights, finance terrorism etc... it is a long list.

Yet we are the ones who pay them to do these things.

And let's look at the Saudi financing of terrorism. Surely we think that is horrible and evil.

Why? Because paying for doing something evil is well evil in of itself.

Yet buying blood diamonds or blood gold which finances equally brutal and terrible things is not evil when we do it?

And what about torture?

We despise the Saudis and the Norks for torture. But it is not evil when we do it?

I realize how much of a pain in the ass I am when I wrote these things. No one likes being told that they are a party to evil or that what they do is evil. It is a great word for other people.

But now that we are past that, and given that I accept my own many imperfections, here is the question:

If you acknowledge an act as evil, and you acknowledge that when someone else does it, they are evil too, on what basis does your doing it suddenly cleanse the sin of its stain?

re: #185 Varek Raith

What's their age group?

Fifteen to eighteen or so. Twenty-bloody-six of them, and no one is allowed to go to the bathroom. I hate study halls.

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

If you acknowledge an act as evil, and you acknowledge that when someone else does it, they are evil too, on what basis does your doing it suddenly cleanse the sin of its stain?

IOKIYAR
/

re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist

More like Animal House.

Stand up. Scream and pull your own hair at the same time. Sit down and make one of your eyes twitch. That'll shut them the fuck up.:)

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

Fifteen to eighteen or so. Twenty-bloody-six of them, and no one is allowed to go to the bathroom. I hate study halls.

At least you have us!

re: #190 darthstar

IOKIYAR
/

What does that mean?

re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist

More like Animal House.

A big zit.

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

Fifteen to eighteen or so. Twenty-bloody-six of them, and no one is allowed to go to the bathroom. I hate study halls.

Ah, in that case, Bean. Bag. Shotgun.
/:Dark Side Points Gained:

re: #182 SixDegrees

I'm one of those people :( The cause is just the nature of the beast. Flourescents flicker and give off different color frequencies. They're not he worst thing in the world, but I definitely notice them.

re: #187 Bagua

The 2008 energy bill has a section banning incandescent light bulbs starting in 2012 and all gone by 2014.

So yea, get used to fluorescent light.

Or candles.

re: #193 LudwigVanQuixote

What does that mean?

It's ok if you're a Republican.

re: #187 Bagua

The 2008 energy bill has a section banning incandescent light bulbs starting in 2012 and all gone by 2014.

So yea, get used to fluorescent light.

What's next? Monitoring our thermostats?

re: #184 WindUpBird

Black market light bulb market!

The reason I don't like flourescents is they show color strangely when I'm painting. It's not as huge a deal as it used to be because I work digitally now, but they still bug me.

The light actually gives me a headache, I hate it with a passion. It has glare, flickering and a pale, ugly light.

re: #191 Cannadian Club Akbar

Stand up. Scream and pull your own hair at the same time. Sit down and make one of your eyes twitch. That'll shut them the fuck up.:)

Drool, too.

re: #199 MandyManners

What's next? Monitoring our thermostats?

It has been talked about. More so in California.

My 4th block doesn't act like this! They got caught passing dope earlier this year, but they don't act like this!

Maybe that's WHY they don't act like this!

re: #193 LudwigVanQuixote

What does that mean?

It's a standard acronym on liberal sites when "family values" types like Sanford get caught with their pants down. "It's okay if you are a Republican."

re: #200 Bagua

The light actually gives me a headache, I hate it with a passion. It has glare, flickering and a pale, ugly light.

There are some twisty bulbs available that I can't tell from incandescent light.

No, it's not a rerun...
Tea Party Leader On Obama: 'Our Half White, Racist President'

A top Tea Party leader derided Barack Obama as "our half white, racist president" in an email to colleagues.

Mark Williams, the conservative talk radio host who has become a prominent spokesman for the Tea Party Express, sent an email in September -- obtained by TPMmuckraker -- to other leaders of the group, in which he appeared to be responding to charges of racism against himself.

re: #203 SanFranciscoZionist

My 4th block doesn't act like this! They got caught passing dope earlier this year, but they don't act like this!

Maybe that's WHY they don't act like this!

Good dope?

re: #202 Cannadian Club Akbar

It has been talked about. More so in California.

I remember that.

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

I have to sign off soon, but I would like to ask a serious question for people to ponder in relation to DPAC and all the crazy that we see.

The question is about what we consider just and good in our society and about logical consistency.

So let's start with something I think all Lizards can agree with.

We have a large amount of problems with the Saudis because they do really nasty things like make theocracies, deny basic human rights, finance terrorism etc... it is a long list.

Yet we are the ones who pay them to do these things.

And let's look at the Saudi financing of terrorism. Surely we think that is horrible and evil.

Why? Because paying for doing something evil is well evil in of itself.

Yet buying blod diamonds or blodd gold which finances equally brutal and terrible things is not evil when we do it?

And what about torture.

We despise the Saudis and the Norks for torture. But it is not evil when we do it?

I realize how much of a pain in the ass I am when I wrote these things. No one likes being told that they are a party to evil or that what they do is evil. It is a great word for other people.

But now that we are past that. And given that I accept my own many imperfections, here is the question.

If you acknowledge an act as evil, and you acknowledge that when someone else does it, they are evil too, on what basis does your doing it suddenly cleanse the sin of its stain?

Reality... politics, nations and the such are not as black and white as you (or myself) would prefer them to be. Bottom line, it's just possible that most nations are evil, and there is nothing you or I can do to really change that. Of course, that's a quick, probably simplified answer, but it basically jives with the reality of the situation, like it or not. (I don't).

re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist

There are some twisty bulbs available that I can't tell from incandescent light.

Twisty?

re: #11 The Sanity Inspector

The most annoying vocal chords in all of talk radio.

Whenever he bashes liberals, which is all the time, Levin always strikes me as whiny and petty. I think he's just another conservative jerk with an opinion built on hot air (no pun intended given other posts) like Michael Savage.

re: #203 SanFranciscoZionist

My 4th block doesn't act like this! They got caught passing dope earlier this year, but they don't act like this!

Maybe that's WHY they don't act like this!

Years ago I had a cook that would stress. I would send him out back for a special cigarette break. Worked every time.

re: #187 Bagua

The 2008 energy bill has a section banning incandescent light bulbs starting in 2012 and all gone by 2014.

So yea, get used to fluorescent light.

I'm curious if they'll ban full spectrum incandescent floods from photgraphy supply shops and art stores as well... better stock up, I guess!

re: #207 darthstar

Good dope?

One of my English students from last year knows how to do pot butter, it turns out.

re: #210 Bagua

Twisty?

The fluorescent bulbs.

First, they fucked up our toilets. Now, they're gonna' fuck up our lamps.

re: #196 WindUpBird

I'm one of those people :( The cause is just the nature of the beast. Flourescents flicker and give off different color frequencies. They're not he worst thing in the world, but I definitely notice them.

The only thing I still haven't quite gotten used to is the warm-up time; they remain noticeably dim for about a minute after you turn them on.

An acquaintance who doesn't like them also used to have trouble with computer monitors. The 60 Hz refresh rate, it turned out, was giving him headaches. When 75 Hz monitors became commonplace, his problems stopped. So I think the flickering may have something to do with the problem, and I think some people are more sensitive to it than others.

re: #198 Varek Raith

It's ok if you're a Republican.

Ahh then it was very very apt to the point.

CPAC is what, a bunch of folks who are torn between turning America into a racist homophobic theocracy and those who would simply turn it into a racist police state where the rule of law only applies to the in crowd.

John Birch is pure screaming madness and evil.

As an American, I was taught such things were evil.

So how is it that these folks missed the boat on what is evil by the standards of America?

By what basis is it that it is somehow ok for any such people to get up and deny the truth of such evil?

re: #216 MandyManners

First, they fucked up our toilets. Now, they're gonna' fuck up our lamps.

And our AC.

re: #215 SanFranciscoZionist

The fluorescent bulbs.

Oh right. Hate them. Pale, ghastly light.

re: #206 Killgore Trout

That's hypocrisy in five words. Impressive.

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

If you acknowledge an act as evil, and you acknowledge that when someone else does it, they are evil too, on what basis does your doing it suddenly cleanse the sin of its stain

I learned a long Long LONG time ago that the world is not black and white, "good" and "evil". There are millions of shades of gray between those two extremes. 99.9999% of people can agree what is truely black and white, good and evil. Where we have our disagreements on is how what shade of "gray" something is. What is commonplace to you may seem terrible to me, and vice versa. Where I see you go off the rails is when someone disagrees with your shade of gray

re: #211 eclectic infidel

Whenever he bashes liberals, which is all the time, Levin always strikes me as whiny and petty. I think he's just another conservative jerk with an opinion built on hot air (no pun intended given other posts) like Michael Savage.

Savage has a FAR BETTER RADIO SHOW. :D I mean, the stuff Savage says is nuts, but he's fantastic radio. Levin is a C-grade host who seems like he's trying to ape some of Savage's schtick.

re: #220 Bagua

Oh right. Hate them. Pale, ghastly light.

Hey, that's me!!
//

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

One of my English students from last year knows how to do pot butter, it turns out.

A very healthy alternative with respect to consumption. That particular kind of product is popular with the older, aging crowd, in my experience.

re: #210 Bagua

Twisty?

Speaking of 'twisty'...I was watching the Olympic "ice dancing" last night...they need to shit-can that event, and fast. "Twizzles" is the official term for synchronized spinning.

re: #178 Cannadian Club Akbar

I know. Made a point to Walter that was in the parentheses that no one would get the inside joke. I listened to Phil for years.

My favorite characters are Lloyd Bonafide (I Gotta Boogie), Doug Dangle (the Gay Journalist) and the Church of Meth guy.

re: #223 WindUpBird

Savage has a FAR BETTER RADIO SHOW. :D I mean, the stuff Savage says is nuts, but he's fantastic radio. Levin is a C-grade host who seems like he's trying to ape some of Savage's schtick.

I'm inclined to agree. Savage *is* entertaining, until he starts bashing gays, which is when I find another channel or turn the radio off.

re: #222 sattv4u2

If you acknowledge an act as evil, and you acknowledge that when someone else does it, they are evil too, on what basis does your doing it suddenly cleanse the sin of its stain

I learned a long Long LONG time ago that the world is not black and white, "good" and "evil". There are millions of shades of gray between those two extremes. 99.9999% of people can agree what is truely black and white, good and evil. Where we have our disagreements on is how what shade of "gray" something is. What is commonplace to you may seem terrible to me, and vice versa. Where I see you go off the rails is when someone disagrees with your shade of gray

My problem is when people say a specific thing is black when the mean scary brown people in other parts of the world do it, and trhe same specific thing is a nice pleasant shade of 10% Paynes Grey when we do it. :)

re: #199 MandyManners

What's next? Monitoring our thermostats?

Why - yes, as a matter of fact. And all your appliances, too.

That's what the much-touted Smart Grid technology is supposed to do. During times of high energy demand, it can send a signal to SG-aware appliances and tell them to cut back on their power consumption until the receive the "all clear" signal. This sort of technology has been used for several years to control air conditioning usage; around here, you can opt to get your A/C hooked up to a separate electric meter that the utility can interrupt as needed, in exchange for a slightly lower rate on electricity.

I had one once, and will never do it again. It was a disaster I'm not anxious to repeat.

re: #219 Cannadian Club Akbar

And our AC.

Banning freon?

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

Reality... politics, nations and the such are not as black and white as you (or myself) would prefer them to be. Bottom line, it's just possible that most nations are evil, and there is nothing you or I can do to really change that. Of course, that's a quick, probably simplified answer, but it basically jives with the reality of the situation, like it or not. (I don't).

Oh Walter, I am not talking about the tough calls and the grey zones here.

There is no grey zone for promoting the murder of gay people for instance. That is evil.

There is no grey zone with backing brutal dictators to get you shinies for profit. That is evil.

I am asking something else. I am asking how people are so easily blind to it when it is in their own back yard or they themselves are doing it.

re: #203 SanFranciscoZionist

My 4th block doesn't act like this! They got caught passing dope earlier this year, but they don't act like this!

Maybe that's WHY they don't act like this!

You may be the luckiest Teacher in the world.. You didn't have me for Study Hall..
When the sun falls Friday night drop to your knees and Thank the Lord for that blessing...I'm sure there are nuns today in the old Nun's Convent still traumatized by me.. I just didn't care about their mental health..
*wink*

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

One of my English students from last year knows how to do pot butter, it turns out.

It's not rocket science. The resin with the THC is fat soluble, not water. The butter melts at a temperature below which the resin wont boil off as vapour.

re: #231 MandyManners

Banning freon?

Already happening. BBIAB

re: #230 SixDegrees

Why - yes, as a matter of fact. And all your appliances, too.

That's what the much-touted Smart Grid technology is supposed to do. During times of high energy demand, it can send a signal to SG-aware appliances and tell them to cut back on their power consumption until the receive the "all clear" signal. This sort of technology has been used for several years to control air conditioning usage; around here, you can opt to get your A/C hooked up to a separate electric meter that the utility can interrupt as needed, in exchange for a slightly lower rate on electricity.

I had one once, and will never do it again. It was a disaster I'm not anxious to repeat.

Cut your AC???

re: #197 SixDegrees

Or candles.

LED technology is progressing rapidly. It will be the next wave after CFL.

re: #216 MandyManners

First, they fucked up our toilets. Now, they're gonna' fuck up our lamps.

The toilets, at least, have gotten a LOT better in the last few years. Despite hanging on long past forever, I finally bit the bullet and replaced our home's 40-year-old toilets with new models, and I've gotta say that the new ones actually flush better than the old ones did, despite using maybe a third as much water.

The original low-volume designs were awful, but that's a thing of the past.

I still, however, remove the flow restrictor from my shower heads, which makes me a criminal.

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

One of my English students from last year knows how to do pot butter, it turns out.

THC dissolves nicely in fat. All you have to do is slowly sautée it for a little while, then strain the butter and you're good to go. I like to cook, but I don't smoke or consume pot any more, except on rare occasions. Nothing against it, just don't do it. But good butter makes for some seriously good cookies.

I honestly being on the autistic spectrum have a special hatred for Savage because of what the asshole said a couple years back about autistic kids. If that fool thinks it's just an act maybe he should see what life is like on the spectrum. The thing about most political radio hosts I've observed is that they're self absorbed assholes who are in love with the sound of their own voice. In that respect I am glad that liberal talk radio never took off the way conservative talk radio did. I didn't listen or care for Air America when it was on and even if it had been better I still wouldn't. I prefer actual intellectual conversation rather than some demeogue who pretends like he's a common man and understands my interests.

re: #237 Taqyia2Me

LED technology is progressing rapidly. It will be the next wave after CFL.

Pale, ghastly light. I've got loads of them.

re: #227 Alouette

My favorite characters are Lloyd Bonafide (I Gotta Boogie), Doug Dangle (the Gay Journalist) and the Church of Meth guy.

Doug Dannger is fun. :D I am a giant fan of Vernon Dozier (Plane Go Boom) Herb Sewell (trying to convince callers it's a good idea to stage a simulated rape of your own daughter to make yourself look like a good parent) and of course Bobbi Dooley (too many awesome bits to list)

Lloyd cracks me up when he's trying to hang the phone up and failing :D

re: #182 SixDegrees

Way too harsh.

Seriously people?

Then I apologize for saying Beck is an idiot and writing it as a general demonization of everyone who would rather use the light bulbs that waste energy.
I'm sorry, please accept my sincere apology.
I hate offending individuals on this site.

BTW, teenage boys, LARPing and exposed knuckles can result in a broken knuckle.

re: #238 SixDegrees

The toilets, at least, have gotten a LOT better in the last few years. Despite hanging on long past forever, I finally bit the bullet and replaced our home's 40-year-old toilets with new models, and I've gotta say that the new ones actually flush better than the old ones did, despite using maybe a third as much water.

The original low-volume designs were awful, but that's a thing of the past.

I still, however, remove the flow restrictor from my shower heads, which makes me a criminal.

What?

re: #237 Taqyia2Me

LED technology is progressing rapidly. It will be the next wave after CFL.

I agree. Still has a ways to go, but it's getting there.

re: #222 sattv4u2

If you acknowledge an act as evil, and you acknowledge that when someone else does it, they are evil too, on what basis does your doing it suddenly cleanse the sin of its stain

I learned a long Long LONG time ago that the world is not black and white, "good" and "evil". There are millions of shades of gray between those two extremes. 99.9999% of people can agree what is truely black and white, good and evil. Where we have our disagreements on is how what shade of "gray" something is. What is commonplace to you may seem terrible to me, and vice versa. Where I see you go off the rails is when someone disagrees with your shade of gray

Again Satt, I fully acknowledge shades of grey and tough calls. That does not answer my question. I am talking about things that we all know are evil. There is no tough call.

When the Saudis stone people to death for being gay for instance we rightly call it evil.

Yet we have no problem doing business with them evn at the cost of our environment and the hazard to future generations.

When the Norks torture people we call them every foul name in the book - because they are brutal and evil, yet you personally do not apologize for or blink an eye at us sending people to Syria for the same treatment.

I am asking how it is possible for "good" people to be so blind to evil that they are doing themselves.

re: #241 Bagua

Pale, ghastly light. I've got loads of them.

It's bad enough people hold up cell phones instead of cigarette lighters at concerts anymore...

re: #229 WindUpBird

My problem is when people say a specific thing is black when the mean scary brown people in other parts of the world do it, and trhe same specific thing is a nice pleasant shade of 10% Paynes Grey when we do it. :)

you mean like when the "mean scary brown people" were (and some still are) in the slave trade business and "we" got out of it!?!?

re: #237 Taqyia2Me

LED technology is progressing rapidly. It will be the next wave after CFL.

They pose issues with warm up times in cold weather

re: #241 Bagua

Pale, ghastly light. I've got loads of them.

FANTASTIC for high output flashlights and car lights! And raver toys :D But yeah, i wouldn't use them for home, they can't be gotten in full-spectrum. At least the flourescents can be had in full spectrum, they just have that damn flicker...

re: #232 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh Walter, I am not talking about the tough calls and the grey zones here.

There is no grey zone for promoting the murder of gay people for instance. That is evil.

There is no grey zone with backing brutal dictators to get you shinies for profit. That is evil.

I am asking something else. I am asking how people are so easily blind to it when it is in their own back yard or they themselves are doing it.

Because many/most people are self serving, selfish, scared, frightened, xenophobic member of tribes.

And it's the survival of the fittest.

You ever notice how people like you (or I) don't fit in too well? That's because in general we are not self serving, selfish, scared, frightened, xenophobic member of a certain tribe.

Reality bites.

re: #239 darthstar