Blumenthal Fires Back at Breitbart (Again)

In the very public ongoing battle between Andrew Breitbart and Max Blumenthal, Blumenthal has another article at Huffington Post on James O’Keefe and on some of the disturbing events at CPAC: Feeling the Hate at CPAC 2010 With Andrew Breitbart, Hannah Giles and the Crazy Mob.

While I was filming at CPAC for a forthcoming project, I was confronted by Hannah Giles, Andrew Breitbart and a mob of crazed teabaggers. They were enraged by an article I wrote for salon.com about James O’Keefe’s attendance of and assistance with a white nationalist event featuring open racialists Jared Taylor and John Derbyshire as well as Kevin Martin of the right-wing front group Project 21. Project 21, by the way, is a black front group created and operated by white conservative operatives to provide cover to figures like Taylor.

Did O’Keefe plan the event with his friend, the white nationalist Marcus Epstein, the Tancredo aide who pled guilty to randomly attacking a black woman and calling her the n-word? O’Keefe’s role in helping out with and freely attending the event, along with his palling around with characters like Epstein and Taylor highlighted a career filled with racist pranks, from his ACORN pimp costume minstrel show (see Bradblog on the deceptive means Breitbart used to push the pimp costume myth) to his “affirmative action bake sale,” in which he and his friends charged white students extra for baked goods while minorities ate for little or nothing. Then there are his diaries about the hell of living in a multicultural university environment. James O’Keefe, the apparent hero of the conservative movement’s youth wing, is what racism looks like today. …

It is also worth noting that CPAC played host to Thomas Woods, a former leader of the white supremacist League of the South and contributor to the neo-secessionist Southern Partisan magazine. And that CPAC held a seminar called “Abraham Lincoln: Friend or Foe of Liberty?” led by Thomas DiLorenzo, another League of the South figure who insists Lincoln was the very embodiment of evil. The presence at CPAC of Islamophobes Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller (Geller once argued Obama was “involved with a crack whore in his youth”), promoters of the European neo-fascist Geert Wilders, can not be overlooked either. And stay tuned for my interview with Birther leader Philip Berg, who insisted Obama was actually an Indonesian Muslim who should be tried for treason and possibly executed. These people must have left their sheets at the dry cleaners.

Jump to bottom

336 comments
1 BunnyThief  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:20:42pm

Max Blumenthal is sheer, undiluted scum.

Oh, and stupid.

Stupid as to insist that when he's stupid, it's obviously some grand conspiracy against him.

Google up "Max Blumenthal" "hotlink" and see for yourself.

2 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:21:51pm

I feel like a fucking sucker for believing one iota of those O'Keefe videos.

3 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:22:24pm

re: #1 BunnyThief

Exactly what about the article do you find inaccurate?

4 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:22:25pm

I remember Kevin Martin from FreeRepublic. He used to post there (maybe still does) using the handle "TrueBlackMan"

5 zora  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:22:43pm

re: #1 BunnyThief

do you believe he is lying about the environment at cpac? or the associations noted?

6 windsagio  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:23:56pm

I wonder how far the Lincoln hate is gonna carry. The GOP leaders can't be happy with that >

7 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:26:03pm

Kevin Martin, the black conservative invited as cover to that 2006 event by Marcus Epstein, has a post at Big Journalism:

[Link: bigjournalism.com...]

His main point of contention seems to be that he was invited weeks before the event, not at the last minute as the article at "One People's Project" claimed.

Includes a mind-warping picture of Epstein, white nationalist Jared Taylor, Martin, and John Derbyshire, with their arms around each other.

It's a little amazing that these folks seem to think it's completely unheard of for people like Taylor and American Renaissance to hang around with people like Kevin Martin just so they can say, "Look, we're not racists! This guy is black!"

8 Bubblehead II  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:26:37pm

"The presence at CPAC of Islamophobes Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller (Geller once argued Obama was “involved with a crack whore in his youth”), promoters of the European neo-fascist Geert Wilders, can not be overlooked either."

I am so glad that Charles disassociated himself (and by extension, us) from these two loons.

9 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:28:31pm

re: #6 windsagio

I wonder how far the Lincoln hate is gonna carry. The GOP leaders can't be happy with that >

Nobody complained. The video is proudly posted at Fox News

10 darthstar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:29:24pm

re: #1 BunnyThief

caveat lepus furis

11 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:30:12pm

re: #8 Bubblehead II

"The presence at CPAC of Islamophobes Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller (Geller once argued Obama was “involved with a crack whore in his youth”), promoters of the European neo-fascist Geert Wilders, can not be overlooked either."

I am so glad that Charles disassociated himself (and by extension, us) from these two loons.

We will continue to see fallout from the people who chose to associate with racists, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, etc. They sealed their own fate.

12 windsagio  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:30:14pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

Maybe they figure blacks won't vote for them anyways >

Of course, I shouldn't dump TOO much of this CPAC crap on the Republicans, they've gotta be wincing too >

13 BunnyThief  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:30:17pm

re: #2 Obdicut

I feel like a fucking sucker for believing one iota of those O'Keefe videos.

One very telling point: ACORN had to constantly "correct" their statements about the whole O'Keefe thing, rewriting their story as more and more inconvenient truths came out. They only went to Baltimore. They were turned away everywhere else. They never went to New York. No one at ACORN offered them any help whatsoever. They never left the east coast.

It'd make a fascinating project, to construct a timeline of ACORN's constantly-changing story over the whole period while Breitbart and O'Keefe released a single video at a time, never once saying how many they had in the can...

14 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:33:54pm

re: #13 BunnyThief

Do you think the fact that O'Keefe was lying like a rug perhaps affected ACORN's statements a little?

Your first post here attacks Blumenthal, your second one attacks ACORN. Are you more comfortable doing that than examining what this Blumenthal article says about CPAC, Brietbart, and O'Keefe, much, if not all, of which is corroborated by other evidence?

15 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:34:31pm

**BREAKING***

We interrupt this thread to announce the birth of Alouette's 25th grandchild, A BABY GIRL, born just a few minutes ago to my son and his wife in Birmingham, Alabama.

***BREAKING***

16 Kragar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:35:56pm

re: #15 Alouette

**BREAKING***

We interrupt this thread to announce the birth of Alouette's 25th grandchild, A BABY GIRL, born just a few minutes ago to my son and his wife in Birmingham, Alabama.

***BREAKING***

Gratz

17 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:36:04pm

re: #15 Alouette

מזל טוב על הולדת הבת

18 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:36:34pm

re: #13 BunnyThief

One very telling point: ACORN had to constantly "correct" their statements about the whole O'Keefe thing, rewriting their story as more and more inconvenient truths came out.

Until they release all of the unedited footage there really is no such thing as an objective truth from O'Keefe & Co. in the matter.

19 BunnyThief  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:36:58pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

Exactly what about the article do you find inaccurate?

Very little. Blumenthal went with his story already written, and just needed a few key details to plug into his prepared narrative. He was there not as an observer, but as a hostile.

And he was treated hostilely. Big surprise.

Well, it was, to him. But like I said -- he's an idiot.

"While I was filming at CPAC for a forthcoming project, I was confronted by Hannah Giles, Andrew Breitbart and a mob of crazed teabaggers."

How many scrota were shoved in his mouth, I wonder?

I've watched the video of Blumenthal and Breitbart. Blumenthal got his ass handed to him. And he had it coming.

20 RogueOne  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:37:33pm

When the original blumenthal story first broke I said I didn't believe a word he said but since Weigel backed up his claim I'd take Weigels word for it. When weigel clarified his statement the original blumenthal story was based on, as far as I could tell, nothing.

21 Bubblehead II  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:38:21pm

re: #11 Killgore Trout

That reminds me, I haven't been over to the Shreakers place to see how many people aren't posting comments at her site.

re: #15 Alouette

Congratulations. Spoil her rotten. (being a Grandparent has its perks)

22 BunnyThief  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:38:23pm

re: #5 zora

do you believe he is lying about the environment at cpac? or the associations noted?

I'm certain he found the environment at CPAC quite hostile. And he has earned every bit of it.

23 simoom  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:39:00pm

I wonder if the media is going to give O'Keefe, Giles and Breitbart a pass on all the ACORN "sting" video fabrications they unwittingly(?) allowed them to push through their outlets.

[Link: washingtonindependent.com...]

I asked Giles about a criticism that’s often been leveled against them — that they hyped up the video by wearing outrageous clothes in promotional materials and the videos’ introductions that they didn’t wear in the actual stings.

We never claimed that he went in with a pimp costume,” said Giles. “That was b-roll. It was purely b-roll. He was a pimp, I was a prostitute, and we were walking in front of government buildings to show how the government was whoring out the American people.”


O'Keefe on Fox and Friends, wearing the pimp costume and going along with lie:

Giles being intervied on Fox's Red Eye, also playing along:

Greg: It's amazing to me, because seriously you guys looked like you came from a frat party, where it was pimps and hoes. I would think they would have just said, "get out of here!", but in fact they were trying to help you set up a brothel.

Hannah: Yeah.

Breitbart at CPAC, opening his speech with an apology for the lie dripping with sarcasm:

24 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:39:36pm

re: #15 Alouette

**BREAKING***

We interrupt this thread to announce the birth of Alouette's 25th grandchild, A BABY GIRL, born just a few minutes ago to my son and his wife in Birmingham, Alabama.

***BREAKING***

Are you guys trying to get your own Congressional district?
///Good for your son and wifey.

25 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:40:10pm

re: #15 Alouette

Remember to call everyone you know and tell them.

26 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:40:37pm

re: #25 Obdicut

Remember to call everyone you know and tell them.

Thanks for reminding me.

27 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:41:16pm

re: #24 Cannadian Club Akbar

Are you guys trying to get your own Congressional district?
///Good for your son and wifey.

Zionist Overlords taking over the world by uncontrolled breeding.

28 Locker  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:46:40pm

re: #15 Alouette

**BREAKING***

We interrupt this thread to announce the birth of Alouette's 25th grandchild, A BABY GIRL, born just a few minutes ago to my son and his wife in Birmingham, Alabama.

***BREAKING***

Amazing and wonderful. Congratulations and best wishes to you, the family and your brand new addition.

29 BunnyThief  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:47:30pm

re: #15 Alouette

Are Methodist-raised agnostics allowed to say "Mazel Tov?"

Spoil 'em rotten! Best revenge on your kids for all they did while you were bringing THEM up!

30 brookly red  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:47:44pm

re: #15 Alouette

Congratulations !

31 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:49:54pm

re: #15 Alouette

Congratulations!!!

32 darthstar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:50:39pm

re: #15 Alouette

**BREAKING***

We interrupt this thread to announce the birth of Alouette's 25th grandchild, A BABY GIRL, born just a few minutes ago to my son and his wife in Birmingham, Alabama.

***BREAKING***

Congratulations!

33 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:51:57pm

Apropos of nothing: I absolutely despise Windows, and Microsoft Office is a tool of Satan.

This nation could easily double it's productivity by banning MO and it's legion of hell-spawned excuses for tools, and replacing them with something faster and more efficient - like stone tablets and chisels.

[end rant]

Signing off now, and rebooting into the sane, peaceful world of Linux.

34 Locker  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:52:02pm

re: #13 BunnyThief

One very telling point: ACORN had to constantly "correct" their statements about the whole O'Keefe thing, rewriting their story as more and more inconvenient truths came out. They only went to Baltimore. They were turned away everywhere else. They never went to New York. No one at ACORN offered them any help whatsoever. They never left the east coast.

It'd make a fascinating project, to construct a timeline of ACORN's constantly-changing story over the whole period while Breitbart and O'Keefe released a single video at a time, never once saying how many they had in the can...

This sounds like a birther/Gren Breck argument. All you need is a chalkboard.

35 brookly red  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:52:15pm

re: #32 darthstar

Congratulations!

/sure glad this ain't a drinkin game...

36 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:52:27pm

To be followed by another night of unhinged feverish Tweeting by Andrew Breitbart. Luck for him he has opposable thumbs.

37 Kragar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:54:07pm

re: #33 SixDegrees

Apropos of nothing: I absolutely despise Windows, and Microsoft Office is a tool of Satan.

This nation could easily double it's productivity by banning MO and it's legion of hell-spawned excuses for tools, and replacing them with something faster and more efficient - like stone tablets and chisels.

[end rant]

Signing off now, and rebooting into the sane, peaceful world of Linux.

All you need is notepad.

38 BunnyThief  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:54:39pm

re: #34 Locker

This sounds like a birther/Gren Breck argument. All you need is a chalkboard.

You saying I gotta draw you a picture?

39 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:57:14pm

re: #38 BunnyThief

Again: Do you think ACORN's statements were at all affected by the fact that O'Keefe was lying like a rug about the videos?

40 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:58:00pm

re: #1 BunnyThief

Your damage control procedures could use...work.
;)

41 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:58:26pm

While we're on the topic of kooks and Andrew Breitbart. Drudge Report has an image of the Obama campaign logo above an image of the star and crescent moon from the Turkish flag with the caption:

Islamic flag? Crescent moon and star

This links to the Wiki page for Islamic Flags.

Yep, Drudge and Breitbart have jumped the shark once again.

42 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:58:52pm

re: #38 BunnyThief

You saying I gotta draw you a picture?

Sure, and make it pretty, because right now words are failing you.

43 Kragar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:59:01pm

re: #40 Varek Raith

Your damage control procedures could use...work.
;)

"YOU MADE THE FIRES WORSE!"
"Worse...or better?"

44 brookly red  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:59:33pm

re: #38 BunnyThief

You saying I gotta draw you a picture?

I try not to get too upset about ACORN, bickering about it one way or the other really won't solve anything... it is on the radar now & sooner or later anything that is or is not there will see the light of day.

45 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:01:02pm

re: #13 BunnyThief

One very telling point: ACORN had to constantly "correct" their statements about the whole O'Keefe thing, rewriting their story as more and more inconvenient truths came out. They only went to Baltimore. They were turned away everywhere else. They never went to New York. No one at ACORN offered them any help whatsoever. They never left the east coast.

It'd make a fascinating project, to construct a timeline of ACORN's constantly-changing story over the whole period while Breitbart and O'Keefe released a single video at a time, never once saying how many they had in the can...

This is so amazingly Tu Quoque it really beggars belief. Is this a form of Tourettes now? Just, every so often, you grit your teeth and start randomly shouting ACORN! at passers by on the internet?

46 Bubblehead II  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:01:06pm

Time to call it a day. See ya on the LNDT in the A.M.

L8R

47 brookly red  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:01:11pm

re: #41 Gus 802

While we're on the topic of kooks and Andrew Breitbart. Drudge Report has an image of the Obama campaign logo above an image of the star and crescent moon from the Turkish flag with the caption:

Islamic flag? Crescent moon and star

This links to the Wiki page for Islamic Flags.

Yep, Drudge and Breitbart have jumped the shark once again.

/looked more like a freaking star trek emblem to me...

48 Silvergirl  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:01:30pm

re: #41 Gus 802

While we're on the topic of kooks and Andrew Breitbart. Drudge Report has an image of the Obama campaign logo above an image of the star and crescent moon from the Turkish flag with the caption:

Islamic flag? Crescent moon and star

This links to the Wiki page for Islamic Flags.

Yep, Drudge and Breitbart have jumped the shark once again.

CBS picked it up too. We talked about it in some other thread. The last one?

49 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:01:46pm

re: #45 WindUpBird

This is so amazingly Tu Quoque it really beggars belief. Is this a form of Tourettes now? Just, every so often, you grit your teeth and start randomly shouting ACORN! at passers by on the internet?

ACOOOORRRRNNNN!!!11!
/James Tiberius Kirk

50 darthstar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:01:52pm

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

All you need is notepad.

Or a dos prompt:
copy con mytextfile.txt
type, type, type
type
type
Ctrl-Z to finish.

51 BunnyThief  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:01:54pm

re: #39 Obdicut

Again: Do you think ACORN's statements were at all affected by the fact that O'Keefe was lying like a rug about the videos?

Given the nature of ACORN's lies, I'd say no. Their lies were utterly unforced errors.

"They didn't go to any other offices besides Baltimore."

"They were thrown out of every other office they visited."

"We reported them to the police in Philadelphia."

"They never went to New York City."

"They never went to the west coast."

Each and every one, later proven to be a flat-out lie.

They bought their own rope, then hanged themselves.

Repeatedly.

52 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:02:10pm

re: #41 Gus 802

While we're on the topic of kooks and Andrew Breitbart. Drudge Report has an image of the Obama campaign logo above an image of the star and crescent moon from the Turkish flag with the caption:

Islamic flag? Crescent moon and star

This links to the Wiki page for Islamic Flags.

Yep, Drudge and Breitbart have jumped the shark once again.

Screenshot

Looks like the kooks also freaked about the new missile defense agency logo.

53 brookly red  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:02:24pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"YOU MADE THE FIRES WORSE!"
"Worse...or better?"

/I will show mercy and not post a link to "disco inferno" ...

54 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:02:25pm

re: #38 BunnyThief

You saying I gotta draw you a picture?

We're saying you might want to get down off the roof and put your clothes back on.

55 SpaceJesus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:02:33pm

lol conservatives:

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

56 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:02:51pm

re: #52 Gus 802

Screenshot

Looks like the kooks also freaked about the new missile defense agency logo.

Oh, for the love of....
:rolls eyes:

57 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:03:13pm

re: #49 Varek Raith

ACOOORRRNNN!!!11!
/James Tiberius Kirk

DRUDGE SAID THEY PUT CREATURES IN OUR EARS

58 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:03:40pm

re: #48 Silvergirl

CBS picked it up too. We talked about it in some other thread. The last one?

I don't know who picked up on the story. Just seeing this now on Drudge including the one comparing the Obama logo to Islamic flags. First I heard of it. There's no story to the MDA logo either.

59 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:04:42pm

re: #51 BunnyThief

So yes, you would much rather talk about ACORN than the subject of the article, at any costs. You would also like to present 'quotes' without any attribution, and call ACORN's statements 'lies' without any proof.

You really might want to stop digging this hole.

For example, they did file a police report in Philadelphia. So you, actually, are the one lying.

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

60 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:04:58pm

re: #52 Gus 802

Screenshot

Looks like the kooks also freaked about the new missile defense agency logo.

This one is industrial strength idiocy.

61 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:05:21pm

re: #59 Obdicut

So yes, you would much rather talk about ACORN than the subject of the article, at any costs. You would also like to present 'quotes' without any attribution, and call ACORN's statements 'lies' without any proof.

You really might want to stop digging this hole.

For example, they did file a police report in Philadelphia. So you, actually, are the one lying.

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

Deflectors at maximum, Captain BunnyThief.
;)

62 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:05:31pm

re: #60 Charles

This one is industrial strength idiocy.

Yeah. Have to wear protective gear for this one.

63 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:05:36pm

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

All you need is notepad emacs.

Fixed that for you.

64 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:06:09pm

I know someone in a local Tea Party chapter. A few days after the big Tea Party event, where Tancredo made his statements about "test for voting" and other remarks, I asked this person if they knew what transpired at the event.

This person had not idea that Tancredo had said things like that and this person claimed not to agree with Tancredo's statements.

But, I find out that the local chapter was sending out an email with a link to a 100 question "history" test, for fun I was told.

Sounded a lot like a test to test if someone has enough understanding of American history, maybe as a right to vote test.

This person wouldn't/couldn't see the possible connection with Tancredos remarks and how the Tea Parties may have responded to it.

65 SixDegrees  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:06:38pm

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

All you need is notepad.

Sadly, the world currently requires certain documents to be submitted in Word format; even Plain Old Text Files are rejected. So I'm forced into Windows from time to time in order to comply.

Idiots.

66 Silvergirl  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:07:16pm

re: #58 Gus 802

I don't know who picked up on the story. Just seeing this now on Drudge including the one comparing the Obama logo to Islamic flags. First I heard of it. There's no story to the MDA logo either.

McSpiff posted in the last thread and a conversation followed.

67 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:07:28pm

re: #59 Obdicut

So yes, you would much rather talk about ACORN than the subject of the article, at any costs. You would also like to present 'quotes' without any attribution, and call ACORN's statements 'lies' without any proof.

Can we have a Godwin's Law just for ACORN? Pretty soon the nutbags are going to start blaming ACORN for their hemorrhoids, their wife laving them, and that persistent knock in their 1996 Crown Vic.

68 BunnyThief  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:08:14pm

Back to the subject at hand... anyone ELSE recall Max Blumenthal's utter beclowning himself when he was caught hot-linking the Family Research Council for a hit piece on Christopher Hitchens? When the victims of his rip-off changed the image to mock him, he accused them of "hacking" his article.

I'd like to think that Max has learned a few things since then... but apparently he's still a jerk.

69 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:08:15pm

re: #67 WindUpBird

Sure. Let's call it "O'Keefe's Folly".

70 brookly red  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:08:15pm

re: #65 SixDegrees

Sadly, the world currently requires certain documents to be submitted in Word format; even Plain Old Text Files are rejected. So I'm forced into Windows from time to time in order to comply.

Idiots.

all your desktops are belong to us...

71 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:09:24pm

re: #68 BunnyThief

Wow, how...subtle, on your part. At least try to not make you deflections painfully obvious.
;)

72 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:09:26pm

re: #68 BunnyThief

How is the 'subject at hand' something that Blumenthal did in the past, please?

Wouldn't the subject at hand be the article that Charles posted?

73 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:09:40pm

re: #66 Silvergirl

McSpiff posted in the last thread and a conversation followed.

OK Was working until now and this is the first I saw of any of this. Rather pathetic about all of it including the MDA logo. This is Jeff Rense territory.

74 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:10:47pm

The thing about the event that James O'Keefe attended is this -- it was a white nationalist event. It was organized by Marcus Epstein, well-known for writing articles for white nationalist websites, a guy convicted of a racially motivated attack on a black woman. It featured one of the most notorious "racialist" white supremacists, Jared Taylor.

When the organizer is a white nationalist, and the main draw for the event is a white nationalist, why exactly is it incorrect to say that James O'Keefe attended a white nationalist event?

He did. And there have been other stunts O'Keefe's been involved in that are questionable to say the least.

75 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:11:03pm

re: #13 BunnyThief

One very telling point: ACORN had to constantly "correct" their statements about the whole O'Keefe thing, rewriting their story as more and more inconvenient truths came out. They only went to Baltimore. They were turned away everywhere else. They never went to New York. No one at ACORN offered them any help whatsoever. They never left the east coast.

It'd make a fascinating project, to construct a timeline of ACORN's constantly-changing story over the whole period while Breitbart and O'Keefe released a single video at a time, never once saying how many they had in the can...

uh...not quite.

Acorn didn't have the facts (and still doesn't have all of them...because the videos have been heavily doctored to make a misleading narrative), and had to quickly make statements based on what appeared to be badly damaging videos. As more information became available over time from the employees and the experts who examined the tapes, it is not surprising that Acorn has made inaccurate statements or has had to make changes.

If there is anything inconvenient, it is the conclusion of forensic video experts that O'Keefe and Giles are liars who took advantage of generally well-meaning volunteers and employees, and then edited the conversations to look like something else.

76 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:11:14pm

You know what i just discovered?

Okay guys, get this:

The PRESIDENTIAL SEAL...oh my God. Oh MY GOD! It looks a lot like...the double-headed eagle emblem of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople! THROW OFF THE REINS AND YOKES OF THE SECRET TURKISH MASTERS! Seal your children in plastic! Hide your wives! Panic!

77 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:12:31pm

re: #66 Silvergirl

McSpiff posted in the last thread and a conversation followed.

I don't think there was any forethought in the process of designing that logo, but I wonder if there should have been. Semiotics are important to culture, and someone should have considered what these familiar shapes "could" say to certain people. It's no different than how marketers plan out a campaign and take many aspects into consideration.

Semiotics, also called semiotic studies or semiology, is the study of sign processes (semiosis), or signification and communication, signs and symbols, and is usually divided into three branches:

Semantics: Relation between signs and the things to which they refer; their denotata

Syntactics: Relations among signs in formal structures

Pragmatics: Relation between signs and their effects on those (people) who use them

Bottom line... I don't think anyone saw this coming, maybe someone should have.

78 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:12:49pm

re: #74 Charles

But, but, but ACOOORRRNN!

79 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:13:09pm

re: #15 Alouette

**BREAKING***

We interrupt this thread to announce the birth of Alouette's 25th grandchild, A BABY GIRL, born just a few minutes ago to my son and his wife in Birmingham, Alabama.

***BREAKING***

Hearty Congratulations friend!

80 spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:13:11pm

Charles- How can someone get in touch with you about the details of this story?

81 Racer X  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:13:24pm

re: #57 WindUpBird

DRUDGE SAID THEY PUT CREATURES IN OUR EARS

Mine felt a little squishy going in, but now I can understand Farsi!

82 Silvergirl  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:13:43pm

re: #73 Gus 802

OK Was working until now and this is the first I saw of any of this. Rather pathetic about all of it including the MDA logo. This is Jeff Rense territory.

Yeah, someone in the last thread posted an image of the flag of South Carolina.

And then in the 90s we had that thing about Procter & Gamble's logo being satanic.

83 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:13:53pm

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Bottom line... I don't think anyone saw this coming, maybe someone should have.

What so we can avoid offending morons?

84 BunnyThief  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:14:07pm

re: #59 Obdicut

So yes, you would much rather talk about ACORN than the subject of the article, at any costs. You would also like to present 'quotes' without any attribution, and call ACORN's statements 'lies' without any proof.

You really might want to stop digging this hole.

For example, they did file a police report in Philadelphia. So you, actually, are the one lying.

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

1) Is Media Matters now considered an impeachable source? Not to me.

2) The police report shown says that O'Keefe was not on the premises when they police arrived, but has his name. O'Keefe and Giles used false names during their visits. That raises a red flag to me.

3) The police report came from ACORN, not the police.

Maybe it's a legit report, maybe it's a fake. If you want to put your faith in ACORN's innocence based on the word of ACORN itself and Media Matters, feel free. I'll pass.

85 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:14:38pm

re: #82 Silvergirl

Yeah, someone in the last thread posted an image of the flag of South Carolina.

And then in the 90s we had that thing about Procter & Gamble's logo being satanic.

Yep, this reminds me of the stupidity surrounding the P&G logo.

86 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:14:56pm

re: #68 BunnyThief

Back to the subject at hand... anyone ELSE recall Max Blumenthal's utter beclowning himself when he was caught hot-linking the Family Research Council for a hit piece on Christopher Hitchens? When the victims of his rip-off changed the image to mock him, he accused them of "hacking" his article.

I'd like to think that Max has learned a few things since then... but apparently he's still a jerk.

Dude I herad one time, Max Blumenthal didn't close a tag after boldfacing something. SO THE ENTIRE PARAGRAPH WAS BOLDFACED.

Another time, Max Blumenthal, the ASSHOLE. The wretch! This lowlife, he...he used a floating point variable when he should HAVE USED AN INTEGER! That was a valuable memory address! That wastrel!

Max Blumenthal. I heard the bastard doesn't even put synthetic in his car.

87 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:15:24pm

re: #84 BunnyThief

Heh, and if you wanna trust Breitbart...

88 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:15:57pm

re: #83 Gus 802

What so we can avoid offending morons?

Just an observation on my part.

89 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:16:06pm

re: #15 Alouette

**BREAKING***

We interrupt this thread to announce the birth of Alouette's 25th grandchild, A BABY GIRL, born just a few minutes ago to my son and his wife in Birmingham, Alabama.

***BREAKING***

YAY!!!

Ceud Mile Failte!

(10,000 greetings to your newest family member) :)

90 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:16:09pm

re: #82 Silvergirl

And then in the 90s we had that thing about Procter & Gamble's logo being satanic.

That one goes back to the '80s, even. No surprise, everything was satanic back then.

91 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:16:10pm

re: #84 BunnyThief

Of course you'll pass. You're spending all the time you can in this thread deflecting from the actual story. You'd much rather trust O'Keefe, who as been proven to be a liar.

The question is, of course, why?

92 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:16:19pm

re: #88 Walter L. Newton

Just an observation on my part.

Understood.

93 Kragar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:16:21pm

re: #86 WindUpBird

Dude I herad one time, Max Blumenthal didn't close a tag after boldfacing something. SO THE ENTIRE PARAGRAPH WAS BOLDFACED.

Another time, Max Blumenthal, the ASSHOLE. The wretch! This lowlife, he...he used a floating point variable when he should HAVE USED AN INTEGER! That was a valuable memory address! That wastrel!

Max Blumenthal. I heard the bastard doesn't even put synthetic in his car.

I heard he once ended a sentence with a preposition, the cur!

94 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:16:26pm

re: #81 Racer X

Mine felt a little squishy going in, but now I can understand Farsi!

ahahahahahahahahaha

it's sorta like They Live after they put the glasses on. Only every American looks exactly like John Wayne. :D

95 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:16:41pm

re: #85 Gus 802

Yep, this reminds me of the stupidity surrounding the P&G logo.

This?

96 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:17:09pm

re: #95 Varek Raith

This?

Oh noz it's teh debil!!!1!!
/

97 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:17:37pm

re: #93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I heard he once ended a sentence with a preposition, the cur!

That's just a convention and not a rule! But I get where you're coming from. That's something I have a problem with.

98 Racer X  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:17:49pm

re: #94 WindUpBird

ahahahahahahahahaha

it's sorta like They Live after they put the glasses on. Only every American looks exactly like John Wayne. :D

'They Live' is the best movie ever.

Ever!

99 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:17:52pm

re: #86 WindUpBird

He tears tags off of mattresses and pillows, the cad.

100 webevintage  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:18:03pm

So basically O'keefe never went to an office dressed as a pimp, but edited the video to make it seem like he did?
Plus he probably also heavily edited the videos themselves to make the ACORN employee's conversations with him not what they really were purported to be?

101 Kragar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:18:28pm

re: #90 Slumbering Behemoth

That one goes back to the '80s, even. No surprise, everything was satanic back then.

Rob Halford once said something to effect that if they were going to put subliminal tracts on their albums, the band would have gone with "Buy more Judas Priest albums and t-shirts".

102 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:18:33pm

re: #95 Varek Raith

This?

Uh oh! Don't look now but here's the Apollo 14 patch.

Notice the crescent moon and the star!111!!!

103 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:18:42pm

Birchers!
.. Acorn!
Oathkeepers!
.. Acorn
Glen Beck!
.. acorn...
Shrieking Harpy
... acorn?
Hating Republican President Lincoln!

acorn?

104 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:18:45pm

re: #84 BunnyThief

I heard Max Blumenthal uses OTHER PEOPLES' TOOTHBRUSHES.

105 Kragar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:18:58pm

re: #97 Obdicut

That's just a convention and not a rule! But I get where you're coming from. That's something I have a problem with.

CUR!

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:19:23pm

Limply, she asks, "If Obama is secretly an Indonesian Muslim, how can we try him for treason?"

107 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:19:34pm

re: #83 Gus 802

What so we can avoid offending morons?

It was an observation. And guess what, you are as suceptible to it as almost anyone. Before you just jump all over it, perhaps you may want to read up on semiotics. It effects you on a daily basis and you don't even know it, yet and I don't think you are a moron. We are all effected by semiotics, every day, and it's an interesting subject.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

So, before you just leap, read.

108 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:20:14pm

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

All you need is notepad.

All you need is vi

109 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:20:36pm

re: #107 Walter L. Newton

No. We're affected. If we're effected by semiotics, then the universe really has gotten weird, and the ba'al shem are in charge.

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:20:51pm

re: #6 windsagio

I wonder how far the Lincoln hate is gonna carry. The GOP leaders can't be happy with that >

The Party of Lincoln is fighting off an infestation of Lincoln-haters. That's kind of a problem.

111 Silvergirl  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:21:42pm

re: #90 Slumbering Behemoth

That one goes back to the '80s, even. No surprise, everything was satanic back then.

You're right. The 80s! Remember women wore bangs that went straight up?

112 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:21:45pm

re: #57 WindUpBird

DRUDGE SAID THEY PUT CREATURES IN OUR EARS

These are..."pets".

Not...quite...domesticated.

It would be entertaining to put one on Breibart and actually get the truth out of him...but I don't want even his dark soul on my conscience.

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:22:18pm

re: #7 Charles

Kevin Martin, the black conservative invited as cover to that 2006 event by Marcus Epstein has a post at Big Journalism:

[Link: bigjournalism.com...]

His main point of contention seems to be that he was invited weeks before the event, not at the last minute as the article at "One People's Project" claimed.

Includes a mind-warping picture of Epstein, white nationalist Jared Taylor, Martin, and John Derbyshire, with their arms around each other.

It's a little amazing that these folks seem to think it's completely unheard of for people like Taylor and American Renaissance to hang around with people like Kevin Martin just so they can say, "Look, we're not racists! This guy is black!"

Racists think that they are very clever when they try crap like this. Sort of like kittens who think you can't see their fluffy butts if their heads are under the pillow.

They are always surprised when no one falls for it.

Kittens have an excuse. They have brains the size of lima beans, and are adorable.

114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:22:24pm

re: #98 Racer X

'They Live' is the best movie ever.

Ever!

My favorite line:

Frank: "Where do they come from?"
Nada: 'Well, they ain't from Cleveland!"

115 spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:22:45pm

Charles- there are more details about this case.

About conversations that Kevin Martin had with Daryle Lamont Jenkins which he is denying.

Kevin Martin was not happy about the Jared Taylor racist forum, in fact he was quite upset, which he is also denying now.

116 Silvergirl  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:23:00pm

re: #107 Walter L. Newton

It was an observation. And guess what, you are as suceptible to it as almost anyone. Before you just jump all over it, perhaps you may want to read up on semiotics. It effects you on a daily basis and you don't even know it, yet and I don't think you are a moron. We are all effected by semiotics, every day, and it's an interesting subject.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

So, before you just leap, read.

Lawhawk was wondering why someone even needed to waste the money on the new design.

117 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:23:04pm

re: #99 Slumbering Behemoth

He tears tags off of mattresses and pillows, the cad.

Max Blumenthal left his Plasma TV on after he went to bed, and he didn't even care.

118 brookly red  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:23:11pm

re: #84 BunnyThief

1) Is Media Matters now considered an impeachable source? Not to me.

2) The police report shown says that O'Keefe was not on the premises when they police arrived, but has his name. O'Keefe and Giles used false names during their visits. That raises a red flag to me.

3) The police report came from ACORN, not the police.

Maybe it's a legit report, maybe it's a fake. If you want to put your faith in ACORN's innocence based on the word of ACORN itself and Media Matters, feel free. I'll pass.

In Brooklyn there is no longer an ACORN... It is now "New York Communities for Change" Don't get bent outta shape over this, it will all come out in the wash.

119 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:23:48pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

The Party of Lincoln is fighting off an infestation of Lincoln-haters. That's kind of a problem.

Sounds like a job for Cognitive Dissonance Man!

120 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:23:54pm

re: #115 spockista

There is a 'contact' thing on the page to the left. use that to contact Charles.

121 Stonemason  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:24:00pm

re: #64 Walter L. Newton

Hi again Walter,
that quiz was linked here one late night a few years ago, does that make us tea partiers?

122 spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:24:40pm

Stonemason- thank you, I had looked for it before and could not locate it...

123 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:24:42pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

The Party of Lincoln is fighting off an infestation of Lincoln-haters. That's kind of a problem.

I am actually becoming concerned for the health and viability of our democracy. If this kind of unreason and hatred can continue to spread and influence the operation of government, than we are in actual danger of destroying our democratic institutions.


What the fuck happened to basic civics education in this country?

124 Buck  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:24:51pm

re: #18 goddamnedfrank

Until they release all of the unedited footage there really is no such thing as an objective truth from O'Keefe & Co. in the matter.

Anytime... they have agreed to show the whole thing...

Problem is that in some states they can't do it legally (due to the whole recording consent thing), unless ACORN agrees to waive that. And right now ACORN are suing based on the recording consent laws.

BUT they have said that they will RELEASE FULL ACORN* (Now Dissolving!) TAPES for public viewing.

125 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:25:04pm

re: #107 Walter L. Newton

It was an observation. And guess what, you are as suceptible to it as almost anyone. Before you just jump all over it, perhaps you may want to read up on semiotics. It effects you on a daily basis and you don't even know it, yet and I don't think you are a moron. We are all effected by semiotics, every day, and it's an interesting subject.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

So, before you just leap, read.

Well, I'm not arguing against semiotics I'm arguing against people that become unglued about an innocent looking logo. I'm not affected by any of the logos in question and certainly don't see any Islamic symbolism in either the Obama logo or the MDA logo. Besides that, there are designs that mimic what could be called Islamic designs throughout the world because for one thing it's hard to avoid the crescent moon and the star.

126 brookly red  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:25:38pm

re: #123 celticdragon

I am actually becoming concerned for the health and viability of our democracy. If this kind of unreason and hatred can continue to spread and influence the operation of government, than we are in actual danger of destroying our democratic institutions.

What the fuck happened to basic civics education in this country?

it became inconvenient.

127 Racer X  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:26:44pm

re: #114 WindUpBird

Best line ever.

I'm here to chew bubblegum...

128 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:26:48pm

re: #109 Obdicut

No. We're affected. If we're effected by semiotics, then the universe really has gotten weird, and the ba'al shem are in charge.

Are you correcting my word usage? I used the wrong word there, I suspect. But what does the Ba'al Shem have to do with my comment.

129 Silvergirl  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:27:02pm

re: #15 Alouette

**BREAKING***

We interrupt this thread to announce the birth of Alouette's 25th grandchild, A BABY GIRL, born just a few minutes ago to my son and his wife in Birmingham, Alabama.

***BREAKING***

Yay! You now have an upding for each grandchild--and beyond!

Congratulations to your big happy family, Alouette.

130 Buck  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:27:02pm

On the subject, did O’Keefe plan the event with his friend, the white nationalist Marcus Epstein? Do we have any proof of that?

Did we get the uncropped picture of O’Keefe at a table distributing racist literature?

No?

Why not?

131 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:27:46pm

If you track these young wingnuts back they usually tend to fall into the EITHR Ron Paul camp, YAfF or both.
Infamous YAF'ers:
James O'Keefe
Ryan Sorba
Kyle Bristow

132 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:29:26pm

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Bottom line... I don't think anyone saw this coming, maybe someone should have.

I suspect no matter what any logo that is associated with hsi Administration is, it'll be savaged by wackos and maniacs who see Crescent Stars or Rosicrucian symbology, or numberology, or whatever in it.

Every. Single. Logo. they have come up with has had this happen. Remember the public works logo? That shield thing? I remember conservatives losing their mud about that. Losing their minds. The actual Obama campaign logo itself. They tried to find crap with that. There was a thing about his campaigns eal, there was that bullshit about whether he put his hand in the right place for the pledge of allegiance....

They could pull in noted semiotics professor Umberto Eco to research dusty tomes from antiquity for possible connections to anything nefarious, painstakingly create the perfect logo, and there'd still be some wacky association that crazies will bring up. You can't reason with crazy.

So no, I'm not buying Logogate. There's nothing they did wrong, the administration is not at fault.

133 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:29:36pm

re: #125 Gus 802

Well, I'm not arguing against semiotics I'm arguing against people that become unglued about an innocent looking logo. I'm not affected by any of the logos in question and certainly don't see any Islamic symbolism in either the Obama logo or the MDA logo. Besides that, there are designs that mimic what could be called Islamic designs throughout the world because for one thing it's hard to avoid the crescent moon and the star.

Well, some people are just not as smart as you are Gus. My comment was meant to show something interesting about symbols and how many people react to them, even unintentionally. All you see is morons. Sorry I brought it up.

134 Racer X  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:30:20pm
135 simoom  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:31:55pm

Andrew Breitbart Identifies With Kevin Bacon in Footloose

Conservative web aggregator and writer Andrew Breitbart is so diligent in his war with liberal media that not only does he aggressively go after mainstream outlets for corrections, but he hunts down perceived slights on small-size liberal blogs, too.
...
Which brings us to his more recent awesome outburst, in the form of an e-mail to liberal blog Deus Ex Malcontent.

Breitbart: james fucks with liberal narratives. and they can't take it. i am gleeful he has found me. what an historic innovator. i'm sure you and the rest of the town elders will vote that he and his friends can't dance. but i promise you the futre won't be stopped by john lithgow & co this time.

LOL, "historic innovator."

136 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:32:26pm

re: #132 WindUpBird

I suspect no matter what any logo that is associated with hsi Administration is, it'll be savaged by wackos and maniacs who see Crescent Stars or Rosicrucian symbology, or numberology, or whatever in it.

Every. Single. Logo. they have come up with has had this happen. Remember the public works logo? That shield thing? I remember conservatives losing their mud about that. Losing their minds. The actual Obama campaign logo itself. They tried to find crap with that. There was a thing about his campaigns eal, there was that bullshit about whether he put his hand in the right place for the pledge of allegiance...

They could pull in noted semiotics professor Umberto Eco to research dusty tomes from antiquity for possible connections to anything nefarious, painstakingly create the perfect logo, and there'd still be some wacky association that crazies will bring up. You can't reason with crazy.

So no, I'm not buying Logogate. There's nothing they did wrong, the administration is not at fault.

No... if you think I am supporting the idea, you all got it wrong.

I am presenting a possible reason for some people making these connections, and of course, Eco is a very good example of what I am talking about, since he embodies modern semiotic studies.

I was just offering an interesting look at how symbols affect people, even when they are not aware of it.

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:32:46pm

re: #67 WindUpBird

Can we have a Godwin's Law just for ACORN? Pretty soon the nutbags are going to start blaming ACORN for their hemorrhoids, their wife laving them, and that persistent knock in their 1996 Crown Vic.

ACORN will make you fall in love with a penguin.

138 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:33:06pm
139 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:33:49pm

re: #128 Walter L. Newton

Yes, you did use the wrong word in a post lecturing someone on semiotics, which, among other things, includes the study of syntax and semantic content.

It was pretty funny.

140 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:33:53pm

re: #125 Gus 802

Well, I'm not arguing against semiotics I'm arguing against people that become unglued about an innocent looking logo. I'm not affected by any of the logos in question and certainly don't see any Islamic symbolism in either the Obama logo or the MDA logo. Besides that, there are designs that mimic what could be called Islamic designs throughout the world because for one thing it's hard to avoid the crescent moon and the star.


Someone please tell me how this shit isn't as racist as it gets. Black guy in office with a non-whitey name, suddenly everything he does is sekrit izlam.

141 jaunte  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:33:55pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

ACORN will make you fall in love with a penguin.

How do you know the penguin's not dressed to get married?

142 brookly red  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:34:00pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

My interpretation of the Missile Defense Logo.
;)

just as long as the freakin thing works...

143 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:34:11pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

And that penguin will spurn your love.

144 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:34:48pm

re: #139 Obdicut

Yes, you did use the wrong word in a post lecturing someone on semiotics, which, among other things, includes the study of syntax and semantic content.

It was pretty funny.

And you are making fun of me for this error?

145 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:35:18pm

re: #140 WindUpBird

Someone please tell me how this shit isn't as racist as it gets. Black guy in office with a non-whitey name, suddenly everything he does is sekrit izlam.

Islam is not a race, is it?

146 Soap_Man  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:35:22pm

re: #132 WindUpBird

I suspect no matter what any logo that is associated with hsi Administration is, it'll be savaged by wackos and maniacs who see Crescent Stars or Rosicrucian symbology, or numberology, or whatever in it.

Every. Single. Logo. they have come up with has had this happen. Remember the public works logo? That shield thing? I remember conservatives losing their mud about that. Losing their minds. The actual Obama campaign logo itself. They tried to find crap with that. There was a thing about his campaigns eal, there was that bullshit about whether he put his hand in the right place for the pledge of allegiance...

They could pull in noted semiotics professor Umberto Eco to research dusty tomes from antiquity for possible connections to anything nefarious, painstakingly create the perfect logo, and there'd still be some wacky association that crazies will bring up. You can't reason with crazy.

So no, I'm not buying Logogate. There's nothing they did wrong, the administration is not at fault.

If Obama really was the seekrit mooslim terrorist, like some believe, he wouldn't be sneaking hints and clues in the logos of government agencies. He would be doing his best to avoid leaving clues people can find.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:35:25pm

re: #76 WindUpBird

You know what i just discovered?

Okay guys, get this:

The PRESIDENTIAL SEAL...oh my God. Oh MY GOD! It looks a lot like...the double-headed eagle emblem of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople! THROW OFF THE REINS AND YOKES OF THE SECRET TURKISH MASTERS! Seal your children in plastic! Hide your wives! Panic!

Extra giggle for 'seal your children in plastic'.

148 webevintage  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:35:59pm

re: #132 WindUpBird

I suspect no matter what any logo that is associated with hsi Administration is, it'll be savaged by wackos and maniacs who see Crescent Stars or Rosicrucian symbology, or numberology, or whatever in it.

Every. Single. Logo. they have come up with has had this happen. ........ You can't reason with crazy.

So no, I'm not buying Logogate. There's nothing they did wrong, the administration is not at fault.

All you can do with teh!crazy like this is mock/ignore and tell them to go to hell. The most important thing is to never give in to teh!crazy.

149 Vambo  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:36:00pm

update on "Miss Beverly Hills"
[Link: www.towleroad.com...]

Fox News ran a story without fact-checking? SHOCKA!!!

150 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:36:16pm

re: #140 WindUpBird

Someone please tell me how this shit isn't as racist as it gets. Black guy in office with a non-whitey name, suddenly everything he does is sekrit izlam.

Paranoid, xenophobic conspiracy lunatics looking to associate anything and everything with either Communism or Islam.

151 abbyadams  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:37:19pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

What if I'm in love with a whole team of Penguins? Should I just start with Crosby?

152 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:37:26pm

re: #100 webevintage

So basically O'keefe never went to an office dressed as a pimp, but edited the video to make it seem like he did?
Plus he probably also heavily edited the videos themselves to make the ACORN employee's conversations with him not what they really were purported to be?

I like movies. I even like mockumentaries. I just like it to be clear exactly what it is that I'm watching.

153 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:37:26pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

My interpretation of the Missile Defense Logo.
;)

By Jove I think you've got it!

My only complaint about the logo is the bevel and emboss effect. ;)

154 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:37:30pm

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

I'm making fun of the error. If you want to take that personally, feel free.

155 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:37:33pm

re: #150 Gus 802

Paranoid, xenophobic conspiracy lunatics looking to associate anything and everything with either Communism or Islam.

I wouldn't care if President Obama worshiped trees. And I don't think he is a Muslim at all. But what is racist about someone who thinks that. Muslim is a race?

156 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:37:51pm

re: #140 WindUpBird

Someone please tell me how this shit isn't as racist as it gets. Black guy in office with a non-whitey name, suddenly everything he does is sekrit izlam.

Are you suggesting that criticizing BHO is racist?

BTW, Islam is not a race.

157 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:38:08pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

D'oh, the 'Earth line' is pointing to the wrong object. Should be the...well, planet.
:P

158 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:38:14pm

re: #154 Obdicut

I'm making fun of the error. If you want to take that personally, feel free.

Yea, I did.

159 doubter4444  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:38:17pm

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Bottom line... I don't think anyone saw this coming, maybe someone should have.

Agreed.
This is a non issue, but also an unforced error, since there is a such a hair trigger in the wingnutosphere.
It's my business to create this kind of stuff (logo design and advertising), and they should of seen this coming.
Not to mention that it's just plain lazy to riff off the Obama logo. I see it as a bit of corporate brown nose-ism, not the coming of sharia law.

160 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:38:19pm

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

I wouldn't care if President Obama worshiped trees. And I don't think he is a Muslim at all. But what is racist about someone who thinks that. Muslim is a race?

Did I say racist? I said xenophobic. I think you want WindUpBird.

161 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:39:53pm

re: #160 Gus 802

Did I say racist? I said xenophobic. I think you want WindUpBird.

You were adding to his comment about calling Obama a "secret Muslim" was racist.

So, you didn't agree with his comment?

162 Racer X  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:40:02pm

Obama is not a Muslim.

He's an alien.

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:40:17pm

re: #128 Walter L. Newton

Are you correcting my word usage? I used the wrong word there, I suspect. But what does the Ba'al Shem have to do with my comment.

I think he meant the lowercase ba'alei shem, rather than the Besht.

164 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:40:36pm

re: #159 doubter4444

Agreed.
This is a non issue, but also an unforced error, since there is a such a hair trigger in the wingnutosphere.
It's my business to create this kind of stuff (logo design and advertising), and they should of seen this coming.
Not to mention that it's just plain lazy to riff off the Obama logo. I see it as a bit of corporate brown nose-ism, not the coming of sharia law.

I think you are completely over analyzing the logo. Does the old logo look familiar?
ZOMG, it's the OBAMA Campaign Symbol!111!

165 doubter4444  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:41:00pm

re: #94 WindUpBird

ahahahahahahahahaha

it's sorta like They Live after they put the glasses on. Only every American looks exactly like John Wayne. :D

up ding for the They Live reference.

166 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:41:05pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

My interpretation of the Missile Defense Logo.
;)

That's nice, but what does it have to do with the price of acorms in Brooklyn?
/

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:41:30pm

re: #145 Walter L. Newton

Islam is not a race, is it?

Aaaaaaaaahhhhh!

168 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:41:30pm

re: #161 Walter L. Newton

You were adding to his comment about calling Obama a "secret Muslim" was racist.

So, you didn't agree with his comment?

In a way. You see this also has to do with Barack Obama. That's when race comes into play in what motivates people.

169 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:42:34pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, the Besht might still be dancing between the raindrops, for all we know. I really just capitalized them so that they'll teach me how to us the Enki virus.

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:43:02pm

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

I wouldn't care if President Obama worshiped trees. And I don't think he is a Muslim at all. But what is racist about someone who thinks that. Muslim is a race?

What is racist about that is that if he were a white dude, no one would think he was a secret Muslim. Islam is not a race. Paranoia about Muslims is often rooted in racism. Ya see the difference?

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:44:06pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

Aaaahhh!

BTW, I've decided that every time someone says "Islam isn't a race" for a reason that doesn't make sense to me, I'm just gonna scream. I hope this doesn't bother anyone.

172 doubter4444  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:44:06pm

re: #107 Walter L. Newton

It was an observation. And guess what, you are as susceptible to it as almost anyone. Before you just jump all over it, perhaps you may want to read up on semiotics. It effects you on a daily basis and you don't even know it, yet and I don't think you are a moron. We are all effected by semiotics, every day, and it's an interesting subject.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

So, before you just leap, read.

It is. My subject in school, so very long ago.
Over doing it can send you into Umberto Eco land, but a fascinating subject.

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:44:34pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

Aaaahhh!

I am also going to scream whenever anyone uses the Margaret Thatcher quote about running out of other people's money.

174 jaunte  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:44:45pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

How about "Islam isn't NASCAR?"

175 Vambo  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:44:52pm

re: #162 Racer X

Obama is not a Muslim.

He's an alien.


[Video]

BEST MOVIE EVAH!!!!

176 spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:44:56pm

Okay Charles- sent u message..

177 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:44:58pm

Bwahahahah!

The new McCain Campaign ad features Nirthers Orly Taitz, Phil Berg, and ... JD Hayworth

178 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:45:01pm

re: #168 Gus 802

In a way. You see this also has to do with Barack Obama. That's when race comes into play in what motivates people.

Right, got it. Because Obama is black, comments about him are racist. I see. Comments that have nothing to do with race, his race, other people race (Muslims are not of a single race), any sort of comments made about Obama, as long as they are not praise, can be suspect as racist.

Convenient.

I agree with a few policy decisions decisions that he has made, especially in regards to the military, and military funding, and his more recent harder stance on Iran, and at the same time, there is practically nothing I like about his domestic policy. Hate his domestic policy.

Guess that makes me a little racist.

179 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:45:08pm

re: #174 jaunte

Islam is NOT the Kentucky Derby!

180 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:45:15pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

What is racist about that is that if he were a white dude, no one would think he was a secret Muslim. Islam is not a race. Paranoia about Muslims is often rooted in racism in the fact that 19 Muslims flew planes into buildings, blew up the USS Cole, bombed a nightclub in Berlin, ditto in Bali, blew up the Marine barracks in Lebanon, pushed a disabled man off the Achille Lauro, killed a bunch of Israeli athletes, et cet.. Ya see the difference?

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:45:24pm

re: #174 jaunte

How about "Islam isn't NASCAR?"

I can live with that. I think.

182 jaunte  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:45:49pm

re: #179 Obdicut

Islam is not the Paris-Dakar Rally. Oh, wait a minute.

183 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:46:07pm

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

Right, got it. Because Obama is black, comments about him are racist. I see. Comments that have nothing to do with race, his race, other people race (Muslims are not of a single race), any sort of comments made about Obama, as long as they are not praise, can be suspect as racist.

Convenient.

I agree with a few policy decisions decisions that he has made, especially in regards to the military, and military funding, and his more recent harder stance on Iran, and at the same time, there is practically nothing I like about his domestic policy. Hate his domestic policy.

Guess that makes me a little racist.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. When I say it motivates people I mean it motivates some people. Otherwise I'd be guilty as well.

184 Racer X  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:46:24pm

Islam is not a race. It is a socialist plot that will soon run out of other people's money.

*eyes SFZ with hands over ears*

185 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:46:35pm

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

Right, got it. Because Obama is black, comments about him are racist. I see. Comments that have nothing to do with race, his race, other people race (Muslims are not of a single race), any sort of comments made about Obama, as long as they are not praise, can be suspect as racist.

Convenient.

I agree with a few policy decisions decisions that he has made, especially in regards to the military, and military funding, and his more recent harder stance on Iran, and at the same time, there is practically nothing I like about his domestic policy. Hate his domestic policy.

Guess that makes me a little racist.

I think I'm also going to scream every time someone suggests that no one is allowed to criticize Obama because criticizing Obama is racist.

186 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:46:52pm

re: #156 MandyManners

Are you suggesting that criticizing BHO is racist?

I'm saying that conspiracy theories about how logos for his administration are TEH SEKRIT MUZLIM are absolutely racist.

see, when you associate the scary black guy in office with scary middle-easten guys who are secretly taking over the government, you're trying to "other" him, using his skin and his name as your foundation. That's racism. If Barack Obama's name was Barry O'Brien, and he was a Republican with white skin, freckles, red hair, a pretty white blonde wife, and looked like a skinny Ed Schultz, I don't believe we'd see maniacs attempting to connect everything in his administration to OMG TEH ISLAAAM. Racism.

Oh, and so you don't have to waste the time, I'll just fire your meme bingo back at you. Islam is Not a Race, Lee Greenwood, Amazing Grace, McCarthy Was Right, Google Lizards, Piss Up a Rope.

187 jaunte  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:46:56pm

re: #184 Racer X

Anarchist!

188 Silvergirl  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:47:00pm

I'm trying to figure out dinner tonight, and this is all I keep seeing. I'm being unduly influenced by this thread!

189 brookly red  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:47:04pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

What is racist about that is that if he were a white dude, no one would think he was a secret Muslim. Islam is not a race. Paranoia about Muslims is often rooted in racism. Ya see the difference?

Yes sometimes it is based in racism, but sometimes the terrorism thing influences people too. What can I say?

190 Racer X  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:47:33pm

Acorns are not trees!

191 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:47:35pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

What is racist about that is that if he were a white dude, no one would think he was a secret Muslim. Islam is not a race. Paranoia about Muslims is often rooted in racism. Ya see the difference?

Really. If a white dude was named Barrack Obama, and he had a Muslim father and spent some time in a Muslim country, maybe in a Muslim school, there would probably be some nuts that would want to equate all that with this white dude being a secret Muslim.

Ya see the sameness?

192 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:47:51pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, I've decided that every time someone says "Islam isn't a race" for a reason that doesn't make sense to me, I'm just gonna scream. I hope this doesn't bother anyone.

I'm just going to mock the person who says it. :D

193 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:48:05pm

re: #186 WindUpBird

I'm saying that conspiracy theories about how logos for his administration are TEH SEKRIT MUZLIM are absolutely racist.

see, when you associate the scary black guy in office with scary middle-easten guys who are secretly taking over the government, you're trying to "other" him, using his skin and his name as your foundation. That's racism. If Barack Obama's name was Barry O'Brien, and he was a Republican with white skin, freckles, red hair, a pretty white blonde wife, and looked like a skinny Ed Schultz, I don't believe we'd see maniacs attempting to connect everything in his administration to OMG TEH ISLAAAM. Racism.

Oh, and so you don't have to waste the time, I'll just fire your meme bingo back at you. Islam is Not a Race, Lee Greenwood, Amazing Grace, McCarthy Was Right, Google Lizards, Piss Up a Rope.

We told you to stay away from the brown acid but ya' didn't listen, didja'?

194 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:48:27pm

Chicken is done roasting.

195 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:48:53pm

re: #185 SanFranciscoZionist

I think I'm also going to scream every time someone suggests that no one is allowed to criticize Obama because criticizing Obama is racist.

Then maybe you should carefully read some of the comment that appear in discussions like this... maybe even you own...

"What is racist about that is that if he were a white dude, no one would think he was a secret Muslim. Islam is not a race. Paranoia about Muslims is often rooted in racism. Ya see the difference?"

196 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:49:15pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

What is racist about that is that if he were a white dude, no one would think he was a secret Muslim. Islam is not a race. Paranoia about Muslims is often rooted in racism. Ya see the difference?

They know this is true, they're willfully ignoring it.

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:49:24pm

re: #180 MandyManners

Not even gonna try. OK, I yield, there is absolutely no trace of racism in saying Obama is a sekret Muslim. I'm sure that if he were a white guy named Harris, folks would also call him a sekret Muslim.

198 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:49:44pm

re: #174 jaunte

re: #179 Obdicut

re: #182 jaunte

Man, there isn't any fun in Islam, is there?

199 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:49:48pm

re: #196 WindUpBird

They know this is true, they're willfully ignoring it.

It could also be religious bigotry.

200 windsagio  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:49:55pm

re: #186 WindUpBird

Somebody got steroids in their cheerios!

201 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:50:31pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

Not even gonna try. OK, I yield, there is absolutely no trace of racism in saying Obama is a sekret Muslim. I'm sure that if he were a white guy named Harris, folks would also call him a sekret Muslim.

I'll repeat myself...

Not Harris but if it were a white dude was named Barrack Obama, and he had a Muslim father and spent some time in a Muslim country, maybe in a Muslim school, there would probably be some nuts that would want to equate all that with this white dude being a secret Muslim.

Don't ya think?

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:50:34pm

re: #184 Racer X

Islam is not a race. It is a socialist plot that will soon run out of other people's money.

*eyes SFZ with hands over ears*

Laughing too hard to scream.

203 Vambo  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:50:49pm

re: #177 Thanos

Bwahahahah!

The new McCain Campaign ad features Nirthers Orly Taitz, Phil Berg, and ... JD Hayworth


[Video]

ahhhh, the Maverick makes a comeback. I'm starting to remember why I like him again... his 2008 campaign was shameful, even before the Mooseburger.

204 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:51:02pm

re: #190 Racer X

Acorns are not trees!

But bonsais are retarded trees. Just sayin'.

205 windsagio  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:51:13pm

re: #199 Varek Raith

What? People might be anti-islamic bigots?! NEVER!

206 jaunte  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:51:16pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

Seriously I think this is a case of overlapping fear sets. A single characteristic doesn't necessarily drive the fear in all cases; they both play a part.

207 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:51:17pm

re: #189 brookly red

Yes sometimes it is based in racism, but sometimes the terrorism thing influences people too. What can I say?

Sure, but Barack Obama isn't a terrorist, so I'm gonna guess there's some racial connection going on.

208 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:51:48pm

re: #199 Varek Raith

It could also be religious bigotry.

It is that as well. But it's primarily racism.

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:51:59pm

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

Really. If a white dude was named Barrack Obama, and he had a Muslim father and spent some time in a Muslim country, maybe in a Muslim school, there would probably be some nuts that would want to equate all that with this white dude being a secret Muslim.

Ya see the sameness?

Sure, and if my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bus.

210 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:51:59pm

re: #194 MandyManners

Chicken is done roasting.

Your chickens have come home to roast!

211 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:52:31pm

re: #184 Racer X

Islam is not a race. It is a socialist plot that will soon run out of other people's money.

*eyes SFZ with hands over ears*

Islam is not a race!


it's a rally!

212 Gus  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:53:09pm

re: #177 Thanos

Bwahahahah!

The new McCain Campaign ad features Nirthers Orly Taitz, Phil Berg, and ... JD Hayworth

[Video]

Excellent! I see the McCain campaign has picked up on what will be a very widely used theme in the coming months.

213 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:53:13pm

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

Then maybe you should carefully read some of the comment that appear in discussions like this... maybe even you own...

"What is racist about that is that if he were a white dude, no one would think he was a secret Muslim. Islam is not a race. Paranoia about Muslims is often rooted in racism. Ya see the difference?"

Oh, be real. Saying that Obama is secretly practicing a different religion than the one he professes and plotting to destroy America is a TEENY bit different from saying "I do not like Barack Obama's domestic policy".

214 darthstar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:53:23pm

Ha!...Don't piss off Anthony Weiner. Serious smack-down of the GOP on HCR.

215 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:54:01pm

re: #198 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #179 Obdicut

re: #182 jaunte

Man, there isn't any fun in Islam, is there?

Depends who's running it. I mean, the Taliban banned kit flying. We're talking about people who do not want you to enjoy yourself even slightly.

216 Vambo  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:54:11pm

re: #180 MandyManners

The Muslins, they is EVILLLLL.

do you think the majority of the "sekrit muslin" idiots even know about nightclub bombings and the Isreali athlete murders from the '70s???

217 brookly red  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:54:28pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure, but Barack Obama isn't a terrorist, so I'm gonna guess there's some racial connection going on.

Hmmmm, could be.

218 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:54:29pm

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

Really. If a white dude was named Barrack Obama, and he had a Muslim father and spent some time in a Muslim country, maybe in a Muslim school, there would probably be some nuts that would want to equate all that with this white dude being a secret Muslim.

Ya see the sameness?

Nuts in congress? Nuts on talk radio? Elected nuts? Nuts that are now making their move to become the activist base of the GOP? Racism. And congressmen pandering to such.

219 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:54:31pm

re: #214 darthstar


I like Weiner. I don't like Grayson.

220 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:54:51pm

re: #186 WindUpBird

I'm saying that conspiracy theories about how logos for his administration are TEH SEKRIT MUZLIM are absolutely racist.

see, when you associate the scary black guy in office with scary middle-easten guys who are secretly taking over the government, you're trying to "other" him, using his skin and his name as your foundation. That's racism. If Barack Obama's name was Barry O'Brien, and he was a Republican with white skin, freckles, red hair, a pretty white blonde wife, and looked like a skinny Ed Schultz, I don't believe we'd see maniacs attempting to connect everything in his administration to OMG TEH ISLAAAM. Racism.

Oh, and so you don't have to waste the time, I'll just fire your meme bingo back at you. Islam is Not a Race, Lee Greenwood, Amazing Grace, McCarthy Was Right, Google Lizards, Piss Up a Rope.

I repeat myself to you too!

Really. If a white dude was named Barrack Obama, and he had a Muslim father and spent some time in a Muslim country, maybe in a Muslim school, there would probably be some nuts that would want to equate all that with this white dude being a secret Muslim.

Hatred of Muslims is a hatred of a religion, and not necessarily always attribute to race.

I know a lot of white dudes that would treat a "secret white muslim president" in the exact same way that you see these nuts talking about Obama.

Now, I am not saying that NO ONE tooting the "secret Muslim" line about Obama is never doing it because he is black, but there are many layers of hatred and stuff that's going on here, and every ounce of hate or disagreement with Obama does not always equate to racism.

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:54:54pm

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

I'll repeat myself...

Not Harris but if it were a white dude was named Barrack Obama, and he had a Muslim father and spent some time in a Muslim country, maybe in a Muslim school, there would probably be some nuts that would want to equate all that with this white dude being a secret Muslim.

Don't ya think?

Sure. It's all cultural, and there's not a trace of racism in it.

So: we're agreed that it's religious bigotry and xenophobia then? I'm OK with that.

222 Racer X  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:54:56pm

I'm just as racist as the next guy - which is to say not much (I honestly believe).

I'm just not a fan of Obama. I think he is going about the whole 'keep America from the brink of financial disaster' thing all wrong. What got us into this mess was average American's spending more than they can afford. He wants the government to spend more than they can afford. Not gonna work long term.

I also think introducing a flawed health care bill was a poor decision. Unless it was a devious plan to introduce a piece of crap, get people all fired up, then introduce something a little more reasonable and get it passed. Then it was brilliant. But devious.

223 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:55:07pm

re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, be real. Saying that Obama is secretly practicing a different religion than the one he professes and plotting to destroy America is a TEENY bit different from saying "I do not like Barack Obama's domestic policy".

It's fucking astonishing to me that we're even having this conversation with people. Oh well!

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:55:18pm

re: #206 jaunte

Seriously I think this is a case of overlapping fear sets. A single characteristic doesn't necessarily drive the fear in all cases; they both play a part.

Very true.

225 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:55:52pm

re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, be real. Saying that Obama is secretly practicing a different religion than the one he professes and plotting to destroy America is a TEENY bit different from saying "I do not like Barack Obama's domestic policy".

Of course it is... but is it always racist?

226 jaunte  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:56:10pm

re: #224 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course, it's important to remember the words of Margaret Thatcher in these cases...

227 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:56:20pm

re: #180 MandyManners

Do you really wanna play that game? Really?

228 darthstar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:56:24pm

re: #216 Vambo

The Muslins, they is EVILLL.

do you think the majority of the "sekrit muslin" idiots even know about nightclub bombings and the Isreali athlete murders from the '70s???

I don't cotton to muslins...I hear they worship Satin.

229 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:57:14pm

re: #212 Gus 802

Excellent! I see the McCain campaign has picked up on what will be a very widely used theme in the coming months.

AP's got a thread up on it, and you can smell the Nirth in the comment thread before you open it.

230 doubter4444  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:57:36pm

re: #164 Varek Raith

I think you are completely over analyzing the logo. Does the old logo look familiar?
ZOMG, it's the OBAMA Campaign Symbol!111!

I'm not over analyzing anything.
I saw the logo, I think it's as stupid an issue can be.
But I also know that this kind of work is researched and backed up by reams of bullshit to justify the cost charged to develop it (even if it took an hour), so thought and rationale went into it.
And I think the company (a big one in the sector, with several Admin contracts already) gave a little nod (or lick) to the clients.
It's not the first time, it's no big deal.
It's how the world works.

231 Vambo  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:57:49pm

re: #214 darthstar

Ha!...Don't piss off Anthony Weiner. Serious smack-down of the GOP on HCR.


[Video]

He has balls. If more Democrats were like him, I'd be a Democrat.

232 darthstar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:58:20pm

re: #219 Obdicut

I like Weiner. I don't like Grayson.

I like Grayson too...he's just not as camera friendly as Weiner is. But he also tells it like it is, and without apology.

233 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:58:33pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure. It's all cultural, and there's not a trace of racism in it.

So: we're agreed that it's religious bigotry and xenophobia then? I'm OK with that.

Yes, I would certainly include those items, and I never said that race does not motivate some people. But that's not the only reason, not by a long shot. There can be other reason, two which you mention above.

I listen to black callers in Denver who call talk shows and some of them are nuts into the secret Muslim thing. Is it racism motivating them? When I heard these blacks talk, I hear more of a religious reasoning given.

234 Vambo  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:59:34pm

re: #228 darthstar

I don't cotton to muslins...I hear they worship Satin.

[Link: isbarackobamamuslin.com...]

235 Silvergirl  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:59:50pm

re: #230 doubter4444

I'm not over analyzing anything.
I saw the logo, I think it's as stupid an issue can be.
But I also know that this kind of work is researched and backed up by reams of bullshit to justify the cost charged to develop it (even if it took an hour), so thought and rationale went into it.
And I think the company (a big one in the sector, with several Admin contracts already) gave a little nod (or lick) to the clients.
It's not the first time, it's no big deal.
It's how the world works.

I really do wonder at the cost. And why we needed a new one.

236 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:01:03pm

re: #232 darthstar

His theatrics kinda bore me, and I think they turn a lot of moderate people off. He's said a few things that aren't that defensible. I think Weiner presents the same issues with more class and less vanity.

238 darthstar  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:01:21pm

re: #177 Thanos

Good...except for the 'character matters' part...This is the same McCain who only last week blamed President Bush for his 'suspending his campaign' panic/stunt.

239 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:03:23pm

Sekrit Muslin plot to brainwash your childruns is uncovered!

240 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:03:41pm

re: #156 MandyManners

BTW, Islam is not a race.

1.) In terms of biology and genetic distance there is only one human race.

2.) The common colloquial term for attacks based on ethnicity is racism. Questioning Obama's stated religion because of his ancestry is racism, outrage over the MDA logo is a MacGuffin a plot device designed to advance the action.

3.) Your logo is borderline racist because it uses the Arab word for "God," which is also used by millions of Arab Christians, for metaphorical urinary water-sports.

241 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:04:27pm

re: #220 Walter L. Newton

There are layers of hatred, sure. I would say that it's like a cheesecake. The cheesecake filling is racism. The crust is the other stuff. He's a black guy, with a weird name that people associate with terrorists and Bad Guys. They use that as their hook to convince people that he's an enemy of the state. They're "othering" him because of his skin, and his name. That's racism. I'm sure there are plenty of kooks who are 100% about believing that he's a secret muslim and they're not racist at all. But it's primarily racism.

Here's what I want to know: if a racist does believe "islamic" just means evil middle-eastern-guy, and he hates everyone from the middle east, and thinks a dude from Jordan is the same as a dude from Istanbul is the same as a Palestinian, is he not actually racist because "Islam is Not a Race"? (tm) Does he get a pass?

I think what's happening here is you're trying to make fine distinctions, distinctions that are not made by the actual haters in question. This is simple tribalism, simple motivations. These people are blunt objects.

242 Silvergirl  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:04:54pm

re: #233 Walter L. Newton

Yes, I would certainly include those items, and I never said that race does not motivate some people. But that's not the only reason, not by a long shot. There can be other reason, two which you mention above.

I listen to black callers in Denver who call talk shows and some of them are nuts into the secret Muslim thing. Is it racism motivating them? When I heard these blacks talk, I hear more of a religious reasoning given.

I've been hearing what you're saying. I was thinking it's like the McCarthy era. All those actors and other suspected Communists were dragged into hearings and had their careers ruined. Suspicious minds. Sometimes it's hunting the devil and shooting everyone no matter their color.

I conclude that it can be racist and also not racist.

243 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:05:47pm

re: #180 MandyManners

and it all comes out. Bravo!

244 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:05:58pm

re: #156 MandyManners

Are you suggesting that criticizing BHO is racist?

BTW, Islam is not a race.

No, criticizing him is certainly not racist in of itself. I have done a fair bit of it myself I think you have to wonder if you would see some of the same criticisms if his dad was from Norway.

Seriously.

This country has a deep pathology where race is concerned, and we are seeing all the poison and hatred coming out attached to cultural dog whistles.

Also, we know that Islam is not a race. I do not believe that belief systems should enjoy the same level of tolerance that race and culture do. I happen to think that Islam is one of the greatest threats to women's rights in the world today. Don't get me started on female genital mutilation...

But...

We all know that Islam is associated with "brown skinned" people, and the dog whistles have been blowing nonstop whenever you hear him called "Hussein".

When I saw that South Carolina congressman actually interrupt the President during a speech and call him a liar to his face, I could almost hear the sneering addition of "boy" at the end. It was certainly implied. Just iceing on the cake that he was also a member of the Sons of Confederate veterans and a fan of keeping the Stars and Bars over the Statehouse.

I have to actually dig to find actual, good faith substantive criticism of this President. Brooks is pretty good. I generally like Peggy Noonan and Kathleen Parker. However, reason is not what drives the right at this moment. What sells are those pictures of Obama dressed as a witch doctor or shithouse rat crazy conspiracy theories and demands that he be impeached and/or executed for treason(add new wacko demand each day as necessary).

Racism is what is selling in many corners of the right, as far as I can tell. The real travesty of it all is that the things that really do need to push back on get ignored. The cancellation of the F-22 is a mistake we will almost certainly regret. Both Dem and GOP defense minded pols should have been all over that.

Not a fucking word.

Cancel the Zumwalt destroyer?

*crickets*

ZOMG!!!! Obama is a seekrit mooslim terrrooorost who hates America and wants to sell us to France!!

Yep.

245 Lidane  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:06:26pm

OT, but the Arizona GOP is now officially crazy:

Arizona Goes 'Birther'? Nearly Half Of State Legislators Want To See Obama's Birth Certificate Before 2012 Run

Nearly half of the Arizona Legislature wants to force President Barack Obama to show his birth certificate to state officials if he runs for re-election.

A state House committee on Tuesday approved the measure sponsored by 40 of the state's 90 legislators. It would require presidential candidates who want to appear on the ballot in Arizona to submit documents proving they meet the requirements to be president.

All 40 co-sponsors are Republicans, comprising 75 percent of the GOP caucus. Two of them have since resigned to run for Congress.

The idea was proposed by Skull Valley Republican Rep. Judy Burges. She says if people have to prove their citizenship to apply for a job or get a passport, they should have to prove it to run for president.

246 simoom  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:06:28pm

re: #186 WindUpBird

I'm saying that conspiracy theories about how logos for his administration are TEH SEKRIT MUZLIM are absolutely racist.

IMO the right-wing media obsession with rooting out Obama admin terrorist-sympathizers, or discovering Islamic conspiracies to subvert our institutions, or painting the president as a Muslim Manchurian candidate are all just a modern incarnation of old school Red-baiting. I would agree that the one of the reasons belief in these conspiracies is so wide spread does have something to do with the President's race. I think it makes many folks much quicker to suspend disbelief and accept sensational claims backed with little or no evidence.

247 doubter4444  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:07:25pm

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

I'll repeat myself...

Don't ya think?

re: #218 WindUpBird

Not Harris but if it were a white dude was named Barrack Obama, and he had a Muslim father and spent some time in a Muslim country, maybe in a Muslim school, there would probably be some nuts that would want to equate all that with this white dude being a secret Muslim.


Maybe.
Maybe.
For most people, I don't think it would resonate as much, I think it would be just one of the many slurs that are tossed to see if it sticks.
But i don't fucking know.
There is validity in both arguments.
(see how that semiotic education worked out for me? Damn this fence is uncomfortable)

248 doubter4444  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:08:58pm

re: #235 Silvergirl

I really do wonder at the cost. And why we needed a new one.

That's the question, really.

249 Vambo  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:09:36pm

re: #240 goddamnedfrank


3.) Your logo is borderline racist because it uses the Arab word for "God," which is also used by millions of Arab Christians, for metaphorical urinary water-sports.

up
ding

250 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:10:56pm

re: #233 Walter L. Newton

Yes, I would certainly include those items, and I never said that race does not motivate some people. But that's not the only reason, not by a long shot. There can be other reason, two which you mention above.

I listen to black callers in Denver who call talk shows and some of them are nuts into the secret Muslim thing. Is it racism motivating them? When I heard these blacks talk, I hear more of a religious reasoning given.

I agree that there are non-racists into the sekrit muslim thing! I think we just disagree about the proportions. I think it's vastly more likely that the core of hatred is coming from "he doesn't look like us, doesn't have a name like us, and I associate that name with Saddam". How's this: it's racism as the wood in the fireplace, and paranoia about sekrit islam as the accelerant.

251 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:11:24pm

re: #241 WindUpBird

There are layers of hatred, sure. I would say that it's like a cheesecake. The cheesecake filling is racism. The crust is the other stuff. He's a black guy, with a weird name that people associate with terrorists and Bad Guys. They use that as their hook to convince people that he's an enemy of the state. They're "othering" him because of his skin, and his name. That's racism. I'm sure there are plenty of kooks who are 100% about believing that he's a secret muslim and they're not racist at all. But it's primarily racism.

Here's what I want to know: if a racist does believe "islamic" just means evil middle-eastern-guy, and he hates everyone from the middle east, and thinks a dude from Jordan is the same as a dude from Istanbul is the same as a Palestinian, is he not actually racist because "Islam is Not a Race"? (tm) Does he get a pass?

I think what's happening here is you're trying to make fine distinctions, distinctions that are not made by the actual haters in question. This is simple tribalism, simple motivations. These people are blunt objects.

People hate for different reasons. I know people who would hate Obama if he was a white man with the same name and any inkling that he could possibly have anything to do with Islam. These people would hate any Muslim, black, white or otherwise.

And I know people who couldn't care less if Obama was a full head on practicing Muslim, they hate him because he is black. They don't need any "theories" to hate him, he's black and that's good enough. Anything else they can hang on him is just icing.

So, it runs the gamut, and classifying someone's hatred of Obama all under racism is ignoring the many other sick reason that people hate.

That's the problem, we want to come up with easy answers for complex issues, much easier to lump everyone of some sort of mindset into one label. That's bigotry, plain and simple, and it hides the real issues.

252 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:12:10pm

re: #244 celticdragon


We all know that Islam is associated with "brown skinned" people, and the dog whistles have been blowing nonstop whenever you hear him called "Hussein".

When I saw that South Carolina congressman actually interrupt the President during a speech and call him a liar to his face, I could almost hear the sneering addition of "boy" at the end. It was certainly implied. Just iceing on the cake that he was also a member of the Sons of Confederate veterans and a fan of keeping the Stars and Bars over the Statehouse.

Bolded for emphasis!

253 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:15:11pm

re: #220 Walter L. Newton

I repeat myself to you too!

Really. If a white dude was named Barrack Obama, and he had a Muslim father and spent some time in a Muslim country, maybe in a Muslim school, there would probably be some nuts that would want to equate all that with this white dude being a secret Muslim.

Hatred of Muslims is a hatred of a religion, and not necessarily always attribute to race.

I know a lot of white dudes that would treat a "secret white muslim president" in the exact same way that you see these nuts talking about Obama.

Now, I am not saying that NO ONE tooting the "secret Muslim" line about Obama is never doing it because he is black, but there are many layers of hatred and stuff that's going on here, and every ounce of hate or disagreement with Obama does not always equate to racism.

Riiigghhht....

The sooper seecrit white Muslim dudes are everywhere waiting to made fun of by your friends.

I call shenanigans. We all know damned well that in this country, Islam=brown skin for 80+ percent of the American people. If you tried to tell the average American that there are white Chechnyan Muslim terrorists in Russia, you would get a blank look. Almost nobody here knows about the Russian school massacre or the botched rescue of hostages in the Moscow theatre. The only reason this zombie meme keeps shambling along is because he is not white and he has a foreign middle name. There is no chance this would fly with a white person.

254 Racer X  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:18:00pm

re: #251 Walter L. Newton

That's the problem, we want to come up with easy answers for complex issues, much easier to lump everyone of some sort of mindset into one label. That's bigotry, plain and simple, and it hides the real issues.

Agreed.

I have a problem with the budget, and with the continuing political back room deals that were supposed to disappear.

255 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:19:07pm

re: #250 WindUpBird

I agree that there are non-racists into the sekrit muslim thing! I think we just disagree about the proportions. I think it's vastly more likely that the core of hatred is coming from "he doesn't look like us, doesn't have a name like us, and I associate that name with Saddam". How's this: it's racism as the wood in the fireplace, and paranoia about sekrit islam as the accelerant.

Nope, I'll agree that there can be many fires, burning for different reasons, all result in the same thing, but each fire has been set for a different reason.

We're going to run out of metaphors soon :)

256 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:21:10pm

re: #251 Walter L. Newton

So, it runs the gamut, and classifying someone's hatred of Obama all under racism is ignoring the many other sick reason that people hate.

That's the problem, we want to come up with easy answers for complex issues, much easier to lump everyone of some sort of mindset into one label. That's bigotry, plain and simple, and it hides the real issues.

Aww, all those poor racists and religiously intolerant bigots getting wrongly slapped with each other's label ... that's just tragic.

257 sakublock  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:22:15pm

Blumenthal is a self hating Jew. He goes to Israel to film selective intoxicated jewish revelers and than edits it into a nice package for distribution to say look everybody Israeli's hate Obama and are racists. I hope Breitbart rips him to shreds.

258 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:23:25pm

re: #256 goddamnedfrank

Aww, all those poor racists and religiously intolerant bigots getting wrongly slapped with each other's label ... that's just tragic.

Well, yes, you're right. If Obama was a Republican, and you didn't like his policies but didn't care a whit that he was black, and someone claimed that you don't like his policies because he was black, you would be so understanding, accept the verdict, take the mantle of being a racist.

I don't think so. But, I don't know you, maybe you would.

259 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:23:35pm

re: #251 Walter L. Newton

People hate for different reasons. I know people who would hate Obama if he was a white man with the same name and any inkling that he could possibly have anything to do with Islam. These people would hate any Muslim, black, white or otherwise.

And I know people who couldn't care less if Obama was a full head on practicing Muslim, they hate him because he is black. They don't need any "theories" to hate him, he's black and that's good enough. Anything else they can hang on him is just icing.

So, it runs the gamut, and classifying someone's hatred of Obama all under racism is ignoring the many other sick reason that people hate.

That's the problem, we want to come up with easy answers for complex issues, much easier to lump everyone of some sort of mindset into one label. That's bigotry, plain and simple, and it hides the real issues.

"why" is a complex issue, sure. People will hate for different reasons, but MANY of those different reasons are under the aegis of "othering", and to me, that's racism. It's not that it's "easy", it's that it's a big category that most of this behavior falls under. Get more granular with it, and you'll have a million reasons WHY people behave this way. It does run the gamut, and I'm positive of course there are nonracists who are still bigoted towards him for what they suspect is his hidden religious beliefs. I think they're they minority. I think there are "soft" racists who aren't anything like the Klan, would never be violent or anything, but they just have a low grade suspicion and distrust about Obama because of how he looks, and then they pick up the Sekrit Muslim tack as a way they can rationalize their unease. The grand unified theory.

But just because people have distinctions about why they think Obama is Not Really President, Not Really American, A Foreign Interloper, Trying to Sabotage America, the attacks on his legitimacy, I believe, have at their core, two things: His race, and his association (through family, through his father's homeland, and through his name) with a culture that people in America are deeply suspicious of. It's not the RELIGION by itself to the vast majority of people who behave this way, it's the culture. It's a big category! Within the suspicion and bigotry about the cultural awssociations his family and his name bring, and his skin, there's many distinctions, many reasons, many layers, many justifications. But they fold into the big ones.

260 Vambo  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:23:54pm

John McCain was born in Panama.

Where is the Nirther conspiracy for John McCain?

261 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:23:58pm

re: #257 sakublock

Blumenthal is a self hating Jew. He goes to Israel to film selective intoxicated jewish revelers and than edits it into a nice package for distribution to say look everybody Israeli's hate Obama and are racists. I hope Breitbart rips him to shreds.

I would rather see Breitbart exposed as a Cylon agent on Battlestar Galactica and shoved out an airlock, but you can't always get what you want.

262 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:25:19pm

re: #260 Vambo

John McCain was born in Panama.

Where is the Nirther conspiracy for John McCain?

IOKIYAR.


It's okay if you're a Republican. Substitute Democrat as necessary.

263 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:25:29pm

re: #225 Walter L. Newton

Of course it is... but is it always racist?

It's certainly bigoted. The exact definition of racism...eh.

264 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:25:45pm

re: #257 sakublock

Blumenthal is a self hating Jew. He goes to Israel to film selective intoxicated jewish revelers and than edits it into a nice package for distribution to say look everybody Israeli's hate Obama and are racists. I hope Breitbart rips him to shreds.


I'm guessing you're not sticking around. Fire and forget much?

265 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:25:56pm

re: #259 WindUpBird

"why" is a complex issue, sure. People will hate for different reasons, but MANY of those different reasons are under the aegis of "othering", and to me, that's racism. It's not that it's "easy", it's that it's a big category that most of this behavior falls under. Get more granular with it, and you'll have a million reasons WHY people behave this way. It does run the gamut, and I'm positive of course there are nonracists who are still bigoted towards him for what they suspect is his hidden religious beliefs. I think they're they minority. I think there are "soft" racists who aren't anything like the Klan, would never be violent or anything, but they just have a low grade suspicion and distrust about Obama because of how he looks, and then they pick up the Sekrit Muslim tack as a way they can rationalize their unease. The grand unified theory.

But just because people have distinctions about why they think Obama is Not Really President, Not Really American, A Foreign Interloper, Trying to Sabotage America, the attacks on his legitimacy, I believe, have at their core, two things: His race, and his association (through family, through his father's homeland, and through his name) with a culture that people in America are deeply suspicious of. It's not the RELIGION by itself to the vast majority of people who behave this way, it's the culture. It's a big category! Within the suspicion and bigotry about the cultural awssociations his family and his name bring, and his skin, there's many distinctions, many reasons, many layers, many justifications. But they fold into the big ones.

"Otherism" is racism. By who's definition.

266 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:26:28pm

re: #255 Walter L. Newton

Nope, I'll agree that there can be many fires, burning for different reasons, all result in the same thing, but each fire has been set for a different reason.

We're going to run out of metaphors soon :)

I need my metaphors! They're like candy to me!

267 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:27:31pm

re: #263 SanFranciscoZionist

It's certainly bigoted. The exact definition of racism...eh.

Really...

Racism is the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.[1] Or, on the opposite side, racism can be described as the belief that a certain race or races portray undesirable characteristics. In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get preferential treatment.

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.

268 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:28:38pm

Dinner calls, as does homework.

Meh.

Good night for now lizards. Stay safe and see you tomorrow.

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:28:54pm

re: #258 Walter L. Newton

Well, yes, you're right. If Obama was a Republican, and you didn't like his policies but didn't care a whit that he was black, and someone claimed that you don't like his policies because he was black, you would be so understanding, accept the verdict, take the mantle of being a racist.

I don't think so. But, I don't know you, maybe you would.

Walter, you're confusing the issue here. No one here has argued that disliking Obama's policies is racist.

270 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:29:52pm

re: #260 Vambo

John McCain was born in Panama.

Where is the Nirther conspiracy for John McCain?

Oh, that's OK, because he was born on a Naval base, so it's like American soil.

Not kidding. Heard several people explain this.

Plus, everyone actually seems to AGREE that he was born in Panama.

271 Sakublock  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:29:59pm

re: #264 WindUpBird

I didn't know you ran a country club that says "no jews allowed"?

272 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:30:46pm

re: #266 WindUpBird

I need my metaphors! They're like candy to me!

Settle down, settle down... I send you a box on your birthday.

273 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:31:13pm

re: #265 Walter L. Newton

"Otherism" is racism. By who's definition.

Otherism of a black man who is suspected of being a Muslim by people who overwhelmingly associate Islam with a specific race of people in a specific corner of the world which blows up our buildings. Otherism is not always racism, but I believe it predominantly is in this case. The core is his race, that's where it starts, and from there you extrapolate the muslim stuff, it has the foundation it needs. Without his race and his Kenyan father, and his name, there would be no major hook for the sekrit muslim thing. Celticdragon is actually making the point better than I am.

274 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:31:26pm

re: #267 Walter L. Newton

Really...

Racism is the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.[1] Or, on the opposite side, racism can be described as the belief that a certain race or races portray undesirable characteristics. In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get preferential treatment.

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.


OK.

275 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:32:02pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, you're confusing the issue here. No one here has argued that disliking Obama's policies is racist.

I certainly didn't. Mandy tried to infer that I did.

Fuck, *I* don't like some of Obama's policies. :D

276 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:33:54pm

re: #275 WindUpBird

I certainly didn't. Mandy tried to infer that I did.

Fuck, *I* don't like some of Obama's policies. :D

RACIST :)

277 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:34:00pm

re: #275 WindUpBird

I certainly didn't. Mandy tried to infer that I did.

Fuck, *I* don't like some of Obama's policies. :D

Me too!

I'm bored to tears at this point. No one is being accused of racism for critiquing Obama's policies. No one should be. I am done with the damn apologetics. Anyone whose feelings are hurt by the suggestion that there is some racism out there being aimed at The Only President We Got needs to toughen up.

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:34:21pm

Gotta go. Hawaiian food awaits.

279 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:34:59pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, you're confusing the issue here. No one here has argued that disliking Obama's policies is racist.

Yes they have... I just did... I just proved my point... re: #276 Walter L. Newton

Wait... that's fucked, isn't it?

280 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:35:43pm

re: #271 Sakublock

I didn't know you ran a country club that says "no jews allowed"?

Hey, look a troll! Hold on, I'll get your character sheet.

Hopefully 3.5 ed. works for you? Okay, says here you have a -1 penalty to armor class, and a +8 to strength and constitution. Now, i'm pretty sure I have the iniative because I have wings and hollow bones, and that gives me a dex boost. But I'll hold my action and let you swing first.

281 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:37:42pm

re: #271 Sakublock

As a Jew:

What the fuck? And fuck off.

282 Vambo  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:40:18pm

re: #267 Walter L. Newton


Or, on the opposite side, racism can be described as the belief that a certain race or races portray undesirable characteristics.

Obama is a Muslim --> Muslims are evil

I'd call that an undesirable characteristic.

283 Spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:40:36pm

I can never understand why we as Jews are not "allowed" to disagree with Israeli Nationalism?
And if we do, we are "self hating"? WTF?

284 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:45:32pm

re: #283 Spockista

I can never understand why we as Jews are not "allowed" to disagree with Israeli Nationalism?
And if we do, we are "self hating"? WTF?

If you can do it with some supporting comment about your position, instead of just trolling on a dead thread with stupid comments.

How about explaining your reason for being bothered by Israeli Nationalism?

What part of "Israel has a legal right to exist" don't you agree with?

285 sakublock  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:46:40pm

re: #281 Obdicut

La Chaim to you brother I see you have forgot what civility means? or is this your Haman Purim imitation?

286 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:46:50pm

re: #282 Vambo

Obama is a Muslim --> Muslims are evil

I'd call that an undesirable characteristic.

Wait a second. Are you being sarcastic, or are you really saying that "Obama is a Muslim" and that equals "Muslims are evil?"

You don't mean any of those two statement, do you?

287 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:47:21pm

re: #15 Alouette

**BREAKING***

We interrupt this thread to announce the birth of Alouette's 25th grandchild, A BABY GIRL, born just a few minutes ago to my son and his wife in Birmingham, Alabama.

***BREAKING***

Darn it. For just a few days, my mother was even with you!

288 sakublock  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:47:35pm

re: #280 WindUpBird

Yes everybody is a troll who disagrees with whatever nonsense you are spouting. I just wasted 3 seconds of my life responding to you.

289 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:48:41pm

re: #285 sakublock

Unimpressed.

290 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:48:53pm

re: #285 sakublock

La Chaim to you brother I see you have forgot what civility means? or is this your Haman Purim imitation?

Speaking for myself and the way I read Obdicuts comment, it was plain simple English, not connected to any religious story.

291 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:49:26pm

re: #289 Obdicut

Unimpressed.

Same here.

292 Spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:50:11pm

Walter L Newton- I am not trolling, I am defending Max being called a self hating Jew because he exposed what is happening in Gaza.

I am against all forms of nationalism, it can border on fascism and as someone who has actually lived in Israel, I left there in great dislike of what I saw.

My friend Jose' also spent some time there and made this video:

[Link: ladylibertyslamp.wordpress.com...]

293 Sakublock  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:52:24pm

re: #283 Spockista

Blumenthal does not disagree with Israeli policies, he deliberately filmed the worst,, at their worst. Not mentioning that they were not all Israeli's they were totally intoxicated and they do not reflect Israeli opinion of Obama.

294 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:54:08pm

re: #288 sakublock

Yes everybody is a troll who disagrees with whatever nonsense you are spouting. I just wasted 3 seconds of my life responding to you.

You'll never get those seconds back! I have stolen them from you. Like a witch.

295 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:56:17pm

re: #292 Spockista

Walter L Newton- I am not trolling, I am defending Max being called a self hating Jew because he exposed what is happening in Gaza.

I am against all forms of nationalism, it can border on fascism and as someone who has actually lived in Israel, I left there in great dislike of what I saw.

My friend Jose' also spent some time there and made this video:

[Link: ladylibertyslamp.wordpress.com...]

What you saw is not the whole picture. And you come in here with a total hatred for the existence of the state of Israel. That was apparent by your comments above.

There are levels of nationalism in Israel (and among supporters worldwide), but Blumenthal only see one, a total hatred for Israel.

That's not productive at all, and neither are you. And to try to equate Obdicat with Haman is plain hatred. You have nothing to give here.

296 Spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:57:23pm

re: #293 Sakublock

Blumenthal does not disagree with Israeli policies, he deliberately filmed the worst,, at their worst. Not mentioning that they were not all Israeli's they were totally intoxicated and they do not reflect Israeli opinion of Obama.

Max filmed what he saw. If you don't like what he filmed then don't blame the messenger.
As someone who has been there, I found the racism on the side of the israelis appalling.

I never felt more ashamed of my heritage after what I saw.

We did not survive the Holocaust to become part of another one.

It is my mission to defend all peoples of oppression, not just a select group.

297 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:57:38pm

re: #295 Walter L. Newton

No, it is not in the least bit apparent that he has a total hatred for the existence of the state of Israel. That is you playing psychologist on the interwebs again. It is clear that he is against Israeli nationalism, which is going to get him shouted at a lot here.

You are also mixing up two posters, I do believe.

298 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:57:38pm

re: #288 sakublock

Yes everybody is a troll who disagrees with whatever nonsense you are spouting. I just wasted 3 seconds of my life responding to you.

And you didn't even send a single spark heavenward. You are wasting our time.

299 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:58:16pm

re: #297 Obdicut

No, it is not in the least bit apparent that he has a total hatred for the existence of the state of Israel. That is you playing psychologist on the interwebs again. It is clear that he is against Israeli nationalism, which is going to get him shouted at a lot here.

You are also mixing up two posters, I do believe.

You're on your own... enjoy.

300 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:58:22pm

re: #296 Spockista

There is no holocaust going on in Israel against the Palestinians. Now you're over the line.

Sigh.

301 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:58:47pm
We did not survive the Holocaust to become part of another one.

Oh brother. t("t)

302 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:58:51pm

re: #123 celticdragon

I am actually becoming concerned for the health and viability of our democracy. If this kind of unreason and hatred can continue to spread and influence the operation of government, than we are in actual danger of destroying our democratic institutions.

What the fuck happened to basic civics education in this country?


My brother-in-law is a public school teacher. He once bragged that he torched an American flag during one class to demonstrate what free speech is. I just think he's a twit. This comment doesn't help any, I know.

303 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:59:17pm

re: #300 Obdicut

There is no holocaust going on in Israel against the Palestinians. Now you're over the line.

Sigh.

What was I mixing up?

304 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:00:12pm

re: #299 Walter L. Newton

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right.

re: #303 Walter L. Newton

And to try to equate Obdicat with Haman is plain hatred.

When did he do that, exactly?

305 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:01:19pm

re: #300 Obdicut

There is no holocaust going on in Israel against the Palestinians. Now you're over the line.

Sigh.

It's getting sorta weird in here this evening!

306 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:01:24pm

re: #304 Obdicut

re: #285 sakublock

La Chaim to you brother I see you have forgot what civility means? or is this your Haman Purim imitation?

307 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:02:04pm

re: #304 Obdicut

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right.

re: #303 Walter L. Newton

When did he do that, exactly?

You even down ding the comment. What's wrong with you?

308 Spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:02:36pm

The true meaning of Purim is to get drunk! Do any of you nonJews know that?

309 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:03:54pm

re: #305 WindUpBird

It's getting sorta weird in here this evening!

Sort of is. In this time line, I thought I was on Obdicuts side, but Obdicut must be posting from an alternate time line where he is agreeing with sakublock that he is doing a Haman imitation.

310 windsagio  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:03:56pm

re: #305 WindUpBird

Its an all about Israel day, kinda odd>>

311 gegenkritik  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:04:18pm

re: #257 sakublock

Blumenthal is a self hating Jew. He goes to Israel to film selective intoxicated jewish revelers and than edits it into a nice package for distribution to say look everybody Israeli's hate Obama and are racists. I hope Breitbart rips him to shreds.

Indeed. This guy is a hardcore Israel-hater.

312 windsagio  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:04:29pm

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

pff you're on nobody's side but Khornes!

/my bad on the gamer geek joke

313 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:04:50pm

re: #84 BunnyThief

Are you "Jay Tea" from Wizbang?

314 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:05:40pm

re: #280 WindUpBird

Now, i'm pretty sure I have the iniative because I have wings and hollow bones, and that gives me a dex boost.

Not to mention full access to the 'power word-stun' spell. You are devastating the scenery tonight, WUB. Great stuff :)

315 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:05:49pm

re: #312 windsagio

pff you're on nobody's side but Khornes!

/my bad on the gamer geek joke

And your bad because I have no idea what that means. If it is a insult, I hope it is a real jolly of a good one since it appears that it should have actually hurt just typing it.

316 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:06:47pm

Apparently Jay Tea likes to troll other blogs:

[Link: wizbangblue.com...]

317 windsagio  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:07:57pm

re: #316 Charles

I'm starting to wonder if its not a concerted effort tonight >>

318 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:09:00pm

re: #317 windsagio

I'm starting to wonder if its not a concerted effort tonight >>

Who else but BunnyThief was acting like a troll in this thread?

319 windsagio  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:11:05pm

re: #318 Walter L. Newton

You yourself said Spokista was trolling, and everyone thinks Sakubak (sic) is.

320 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:11:17pm

re: #306 Walter L. Newton

Which would be a very different poster than Spockista.

321 Spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:14:35pm

I am not trolling. I am defending Max as a fellow Jew who agrees with his concerns about Israel.

322 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:14:56pm

re: #257 sakublock

Blumenthal does entertain an anti-Israel bias that is not grounded in reality (facts). While I give him kudos for addressing racists, I refuse to do so when it comes to his commentary on Israel. He parrots the same whiny complaints that the leftists do, facts be damned. To be honest though, if he fell off the face of the Earth tomorrow, I wouldn't miss him either way.

323 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:19:22pm

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

When did he ever say that, Walter?

Do you realize there are two different posters, sakublock and Spockista?

324 windsagio  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:20:20pm

re: #323 Obdicut

unless... They're really the same person!

325 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:21:54pm

re: #324 windsagio

Maybe you're all just figments of my imagination.

In which case I really need to deal with a few issues I apparently have with myself.

326 windsagio  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:22:41pm

re: #325 Obdicut

It does add new meaning to the term 'self-loathing Jew', if I'm allowed to say that ;)

327 Spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:22:58pm

re: #324 windsagio

unless... They're really the same person!

LOL! No, there is just one of me...

328 windsagio  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:23:41pm

re: #327 Spockista

well since the thread is kinda winding down I can be all meta, do you, or have you ever known the guy you're being confused with?

329 Obdicut  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:24:34pm

re: #327 Spockista

Seriously, though, if you post what you just did in an active thread, you are going to get dogpiled. And if you refer to the treatment of the Palestinans as a Holocaust, it will probably be by nearly everyone on the site. And deservedly so, in my opinion.

330 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:25:09pm

re: #324 windsagio

unless... They're really the same person!

GIS for Spock Block.

331 Spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:27:28pm

re: #328 windsagio

well since the thread is kinda winding down I can be all meta, do you, or have you ever known the guy you're being confused with?

No, I have no idea who you are talking about.

I only came on here to let Charles know that I know someone who can give him more info on the Kevin Martin/O'Keefe/Jared Taylor drama

I saw my friend Max being attacked and thought I should jump in and defend him, because he is a good guy and I agree with his quest to help those who are oppressed.

I am on the level, not trying start trouble.

332 Timmeh  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:29:31pm

"European neo-fascist Geert Wilders"?

Is this true?

333 Buck  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:43:01pm

re: #245 Lidane

OT, but the Arizona GOP is now officially crazy:

Arizona Goes 'Birther'? Nearly Half Of State Legislators Want To See Obama's Birth Certificate Before 2012 Run

Ya, and Washington State was all truther in it's day...."Introduced Impeachment Resolutions".

334 Spockista  Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:45:48pm

Here is a little more on this case...

KEVIN MARTIN'S RUCKUS: AN EDITORIAL BY DARYLE LAMONT JENKINS

335 sakublock  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:10:04am

re: #322 eclectic infidel

Totally Agree

336 amrafel  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 1:53:02pm

"O’Keefe’s role in helping out with and freely attending the event, along with his palling around with characters like Epstein and Taylor highlighted a career filled... "

Palling around...palling around... now where have I heard that phrase before?


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