And Jon McCain earns another begrudged white mark in my book...

Especially given what I thought might be happening with a title like "McCain Plays the Birther Card..."

Glad to know there are still a few drops of Maverick in him, but he might need an emergency transfusion of it some day, but I think his daughter is probably a good match...

"John McCain, not bat-shit insane."

I like it.

Hopefully this is a trend.

Hoo-ah!

I may yet forgive him for picking Sarah.

re: #2 goddamnedfrank

I like it.

Jon McCain a conservative who isn't about to be committed...

(I mean that in the good way)

(In the "committed = drag off to the loony bin sense)

J.D. Hayworth made the mistake of assuming that because John McCain is a gentleman, he wouldn't throw a hard negative ad. However. unlike the Wright-Ayers matters with Obama (which McCain decided were not worth using), the Birther issue is clearly a valid one. McCain also forcing Hayworth to deny he is a Birther. Hayworth will do so, but in so doing he will alienate the Birthers, causing them to sit out the primary. Either way Hayworth loses.

Oh, thank goodness. I thought it was going to be McCain pandering to Nirthers. This kind of dealing is OK.

I like how Hayworth includes the element of "identity theft."

Hayworth says he's only interested in this for "procedural reasons" what with all the "identity theft" that's in the news. I wonder who he thinks stole Barack Obama's identity.

re: #8 jaunte

Hayworth says he's only interested in this for "procedural reasons" what with all the "identity theft" that's in the news. I wonder who he thinks stole Barack Obama's identity.

Some Muslim guy who then went to a plastic surgeon to get his face touched up. The real Barack Obama is probably tied up in a shed somewhere!

re: #7 wrenchwench

Oh, thank goodness. I thought it was going to be McCain pandering to Nirthers.

Yeah. IMO Charles should rephrase the post title to make it clear McCain is ridiculing Birthers.

Hey two or three signs of sensibility on the right in the same week.
Finally!!!

Great move by John McCain. Note, this is a preview of the fall campaigns.

In other news, J.D. Hayworth got an endorsement from the xenophobic extremist group, ALIPAC.

re: #10 LotharBot

Yeah. IMO Charles should rephrase the post title to make it clear McCain is ridiculing Birthers.

No way. That's part of the fun. Is he or isn't he? Only by reading the first sentence can you know the answer.

re: #13 Charles

No way. That's part of the fun. Is he or isn't he? Only by reading the first sentence can you know the answer.

That's clever.

re: #12 Gus 802

Great move by John McCain. Note, this is a preview of the fall campaigns.

In other news, J.D. Hayworth got an endorsement ...

Wow, is that really a picture of Hayworth? That guy is enormous!

Welcome back Y2K John McCain! it sure has been a while...

re: #15 Charles

I think he's lost at least one of himselves in the last couple of years.

re: #13 Charles

No way. That's part of the fun. Is he or isn't he? Only by reading the first sentence can you know the answer.

Wow Mr. Jameson you really know how to sell a newspaper!

re: #15 Charles

Wow, is that really a picture of Hayworth? That guy is enormous!

OMG, read the photo caption!:

"J.D. Hayworth: "Bronze elephant" indeed"

re: #15 Charles

Wow, is that really a picture of Hayworth? That guy is enormous!

Yeah, I scratched my head when I saw that. I guess he's pretty tall and has some weight on him in that photo.

re: #20 Gus 802

Yeah, I scratched my head when I saw that. I guess he's pretty tall and has some weight on him in that photo.

He's really a fucking fat person, isn't he. I bet he smells too! Fat people always smell.

re: #20 Gus 802

Yeah, I scratched my head when I saw that. I guess he's pretty tall and has some weight on him in that photo.

Photos can also make someone look bigger than they really are.

re: #21 Walter L. Newton

He's really a fucking fat person, isn't he. I bet he smells too! Fat people always smell.

Huh?

re: #21 Walter L. Newton

He's really a fucking fat person, isn't he. I bet he smells too! Fat people always smell.

I'm fat, and I don't smell. I have a good deoderant, though, and I shower regularly.

A smart political move from McCain. However, he's still pandering to "fiscal responsibility" crowd (aka Tea Party economic Paulians) by claiming he only supportted TARP because he thought it was something else. He did say durring the campaign that he didn't understand economics but he's not stupid. He should own up to. There's no shame in saving the economy.

This is funny. TPM asks, "Does running on an anti-Birther platform help in a Republican primary?" They might have a point. This might actually hurt McCain.

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

I'm skinny and I stink.

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

I'm fat, and I don't smell. I have a good deoderant, though, and I shower regularly.

(I know someone was waiting for me to point this out)... then why are we pointing out this guys weight? What does it matter how big he is? Once again I see people making sport of other people because of some physical condition. I don't find that enjoyable. I guess some do.

re: #26 Gus 802

Heh, good point.

The only thing I disliked about McCain was picking S. Palin as his running mate. But I can forgive him for that because he was going to lose to Obama anyway. The media allowed Obama to run against Bush and McCain was simply not going to prevail. Senator McCain is a good man and we need people in both parties who can work with those on the opposite side of the aisle. McCain is one of those people.

re: #27 Killgore Trout

I'm skinny and I stink.

do you smell like trout?

Outstanding!

I live in that pompous Oaf's former district, I have met JD, and he is about the dumbest specimen to ever walk the earth.

Big, stupid oaf, I am SO glad McCain is calling him on this.

A few days ago, Hayworthless claimed that what he said on his radio show was just for entertainment value, not what he really believed vis-a-vis birthers.

LOL. No how, no way ever will JD the Oaf get my vote.

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

Old movie star joke-Ageing model/actress says after an unflattering angle is shown-"Well the camera adds ten pounds!"

The skeptical director says "How many cameras were on you my dear?"

re: #20 Gus 802

in recent photos and videos he looks about 50 lbs lighter than in that photo

re: #34 zora

in recent photos and videos he looks about 50 lbs lighter than in that photo

I don't care. I didn't bring up his weight.

re: #26 Gus 802

Only if he runs again, which I doubt.

re: #31 _RememberTonyC

do you smell like trout?

Not yet. I just got my fishing license today and I probably won't make it out to the river until next Monday. I haven't fished in a few years because of tough economic times but I'm back in action. I can't wait!

ok

re: #36 Rightwingconspirator

Only if he runs again, which I doubt.

This is a primary so by hurting McCain it would be that he would lose the birther Republicans which according to polls there are many.

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Not yet. I just got my fishing license today and I probably won't make it out to the river until next Monday. I haven't fished in a few years because of tough economic times but I'm back in action. I can't wait!

will killgore trout killmore trout?

re: #21 Walter L. Newton

He's really a fucking fat person, isn't he. I bet he smells too! Fat people always smell.

Easy Walter..
I went to this wedding once..And met a lineman from the Dallas Cowboys.. He was a lineman when they won the Super Bowl with Troy...Can't remember his name.. His Superbowl ring was designed as a football field with diamonds..
The man was huge..A roadgrater of a man...
He didn't stink..Smelled like Eternity for men to me..
/He was just huge dude

re: #9 jamesfirecat

Some Muslim guy who then went to a plastic surgeon to get his face touched up. The real Barack Obama is probably tied up in a shed somewhere!

I think we have already discussed this.

I am Barack Obama!!!1111!!!

Whenever I see Hayworthless, I think of a dumber version of Shreck

I was at my favorite Asian market today and they had live Geoduck for sale really cheap. I didn't buy any because I don;t know what to do with them. Maybe I'll have a bbq this weekend. Geoduck chowder?

re: #43 Egregious Philbin

Whenever I see Hayworthless, I think of a dumber version of Shreck

He's Shreck without the common sense.

re: #40 _RememberTonyC

will killgore trout killmore trout?

Probably not. With a fly rod I'm more of a danger to birds, squirrels and myself. The trout, steelhead and salmon are pretty safe around me.

re: #43 Egregious Philbin

Whenever I see Hayworthless, I think of a dumber version of Shreck

Mongo want to see Obama birth certificate. Mongo care about identity theft. Care about people good.

/

re: #47 Gus 802

Mongo want to see Obama birth certificate. Mongo care about identity theft. Care about people good.

/

Candygram for Gus 802!

I lived in Jeff Flake's district, he is a good man, and a hell of a pork and waste fighter, then I got redistricted into the oaf's district, I refused to vote when he ran against Mitchell Lots of us did, he is a thoroughly unlikeable man.

McCain's comment "the fundamentals of our economy are sound" two weeks before Lehman, Fannie, Freddie, WaMu, Wachovia, and AIG collapsed has to be the most tone-deaf statement in Presidential candidate history.

But Hayworth is even dumber.

Arizona House panel approves bill requiring presidential candidates to show birth certificates

PHOENIX (AP) — Nearly half of the Arizona Legislature wants to force President Barack Obama to show his birth certificate to state officials if he runs for re-election.

A state House committee on Tuesday approved the measure sponsored by 40 of the state's 90 legislators. It would require presidential candidates who want to appear on the ballot in Arizona to submit documents proving they meet the requirements to be president.

All 40 co-sponsors are Republicans, comprising 75 percent of the GOP caucus. Two of them have since resigned to run for Congress.

The idea was proposed by Skull Valley Republican Rep. Judy Burges. She says if people have to prove their citizenship to apply for a job or get a passport, they should have to prove it to run for president.

re: #15 Charles

Wow, is that really a picture of Hayworth? That guy is enormous!

I've met that guy before - I think it was somewhere near Washington D.C...

Image: 2cndyfa.jpg

Fat folks are the last frontier of discrimination.

re: #50 Linden Arden

McCain's comment "the fundamentals of our economy are sound" two weeks before Lehman, Fannie, Freddie, WaMu, Wachovia, and AIG collapsed has to be the most tone-deaf statement in Presidential candidate history.

But Hayworth is even dumber.

McCain was wrong about the economy and ran a lousy campaign. However, he is a competent senator. Hayworth is a hack who gets by throwing red meat to the base and even that tactic is failing him.

I hope everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he wasn't "Conservative enough" is fucking happy now.

Here she is, The Zionist Overlord Princess

last night i got home from work really late and was listening to george noory's coast to coast all night radio show. he said there was a photo on the internet of a sheep in Turkey that gave birth to a stillborn lamb with a human face. it sounds like something beyond creepy and very disturbing. did anyone see the photo on the internet?

re: #56 Alouette

Here she is, The Zionist Overlord Princess

Daughter or granddaughter? I should know the answer, but I do not. Sorry.

re: #55 MandyManners

I hope everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he wasn't "Conservative enough" is fucking happy now.

I hope everybody that voted for Obama thinking politics would hopefully change is horrified...

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

Daughter or granddaughter? I should know the answer, but I do not. Sorry.

My 25th grandchild, born this afternoon to my son and his wife in Alabama. (Their first child)

re: #60 Alouette

My 25th grandchild, born this afternoon to my son and his wife in Alabama. (Their first child)

God bless your family Alouette...
You must be so proud

re: #60 Alouette

My 25th grandchild, born this afternoon to my son and his wife in Alabama. (Their first child)

Mazel Tov

I just fucking happy that John McCain is not President.

re: #51 Gus 802

Somewhere from deep within the infernal planes, Evan Mecham smiles.

re: #64 WindUpBird

Somewhere from deep within the infernal planes, Evan Mecham smiles.

Make Mongo happy. Very happy. /

re: #15 Charles

Wow, is that really a picture of Hayworth? That guy is enormous!

JD stands for Just Diet

re: #56 Alouette

Here she is, The Zionist Overlord Princess

SNUGGABLELICIOUS!

Sorry to interrupt yet another thread. Carry on. :)

re: #60 Alouette

My 25th grandchild, born this afternoon to my son and his wife in Alabama. (Their first child)

That is so awesome! Congrats.

No, I don't feel at all guilty about overpopulating the planet. We are, after all, Teh Overlords.

re: #41 HoosierHoops

If you didn't see my message up thread, I was being sarcastic. It bothers me when people start making fun of other people because of their size, or look or things like that.

I must be stupid for being bothered.

re: #68 Alouette

Sorry to interrupt yet another thread. Carry on. :)

You go right ahead.
Babies are always a good interruption.
Congrats!!

re: #59 HoosierHoops

Remember what Biden said about taxes and patriotism?

Here's the Arizona birther bill:

HB 2441

HB 2441 provides a procedure for determining a presidential candidate’s eligibility for office.

History

United States Constitution prescribes all powers, rights and limitations to the executive branch of the federal government, stating “the executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.” The Constitution further prescribes the manner for the election of the President and establishes the individual eligibility requirements for the office of the President. The requirements includes that the individual be a natural born citizen, at least 35 years old and have been a resident within the United States for at least 14 years (United States Constitution, Article 2, Section 1).

Provisions

Requires that written notice from a national political party committee for a presidential candidate that is entitled to representation on the ballot be sent to the Arizona Secretary of State (Secretary), that contains the party’s nomination of candidates for president and vice-president.

States that within 10 days of the submittal of the names of the candidates, the national political party committee shall submit an affidavit of the presidential candidate which states the candidate’s citizenship and age.

Stipulates that presidential candidate affidavit include documents that prove:

That the candidate is a natural born citizen.

That the candidate’s age.

That the candidate meets the residency requirements for President of the United States as prescribed in the United States Constitution.

States that the Secretary shall not place that candidate’s name on the ballot if upon review of the affidavit and other documents submitted pursuant to this Act, the Secretary believes the candidate does not meet the citizenship, age and residency requirements prescribed by law.

Introduced by:

Representatives Burges, Ash, Barnes, Biggs, Gowan, Hendrix, Lesko, Mason, Montenegro, Seel, Williams, Senators Gray C, Gray L, Harper, Pearce R: Representatives Antenori, Barto, Boone, Court, Crump, Driggs, Goodale, Jones, Kavanagh, Konopnicki, McComish, McLain, Nichols, Pratt, Reagan, Stevens, Tobin, Weiers JP, Yarbrough, Senators Allen S, Gorman, Huppenthal, Melvin, Nelson, Verschoor

re: #66 _RememberTonyC

JD stands for Just Diet

I'm going to play fool the guesser and say that dude is 3-1/2 spins. That might be low.

re: #54 Dark_Falcon

McCain was wrong about the economy and ran a lousy campaign. However, he is a competent senator. Hayworth is a hack who gets by throwing red meat to the base and even that tactic is failing him.

Rove and Bush destroyed McCain in 2000 (who I avidly supported).

The "shell shock" and "black child" destruction politics harmed a good man who would have served the US much better in the wake of 9/11 than Bush did.

(There would have been no Cheney to force him into Iraq).

re: #74 Gus 802

Scareizona!

As far as I'm concerned, McCain has burned all bridges. Expediency rules the day for him. That's the only reason he's using the birther card. There's no way he can ever shake off Sarah Palin.

re: #74 Gus 802

Here's the Arizona birther bill:

HB 2441

WTH?
Obama met all those requirements.

What a total waste of time and money.
I guess the State of Arizona has money to just throw around.

re: #76 Linden Arden

Rove and Bush destroyed McCain in 2000 (who I avidly supported).

The "shell shock" and "black child" destruction politics harmed a good man who would have served the US much better in the wake of 9/11 than Bush did.

(There would have been no Cheney to force him into Iraq).

I know a few moderates on these intertubes who wanted a guy like Romney or Bayh, who voted for Obama reluctantly because they wanted the 2000 McCain, and instead they got the suspend-his-campaign-to-pull-a-stunt-and-make-Palin-my-running-mate 2008 McCain.

And they are not regretting their decision at all.

re: #60 Alouette

My 25th grandchild, born this afternoon to my son and his wife in Alabama. (Their first child)

Congratulations.

Finally, Arizona has a viable candidate against John McCain.
Trouble is, they're both feculent.

John McCain is like George H. Bush in the sense that eight years after their first Presidential campaign, when they finally had the nominations, they were shadows of the men they used to be.

re: #79 webevintage

WTH?
Obama met all those requirements.

What a total waste of time and money.
I guess the State of Arizona has money to just throw around.

Agreed. It's pandering to the birthes. Probably more than pandering and we're now talking actual birthers in the Arizona house:

Bill requiring citizenship proof for presidential contenders passes House committee

PHOENIX — The House Government Committee voted Tuesday to require presidential contenders to prove to Arizona's secretary of state they're "natural born citizens" to get their names on the ballot.

The 6-1 vote came on the proposal by Rep. Judy Burges, R-Skull Valley, who said it's only fair to require those who want to lead our country prove they meet the standards of the U.S. Constitution. She said that, at the very least, it means producing a birth certificate.

"One must have a birth certificate if you're going to enroll your child in a sports program for school," Burges said. The same is true of passports...

re: #82 Van Helsing

upding for "feculent"

re: #82 Van Helsing

Finally, Arizona has a viable candidate against John McCain.
Trouble is, they're both feculent.

How is John McCain feculent?

re: #84 Gus 802

So for a state to mirror the constitutional requirement is pandering to the birthers? Seems utterly harmless. I needed my birth certificate on several occasions, none as important as public office. So did Barry Obama.

re: #71 Walter L. Newton

If you didn't see my message up thread, I was being sarcastic. It bothers me when people start making fun of other people because of their size, or look or things like that.

I must be stupid for being bothered.

It sorta bothers me too, I try not to do this. Being a nerd, I know a lot of totally awesome hyper-smart fat people. The biggest guy I know, is the smartest guy I know. Ever met someone who can understand anything almost implicitly? Just has no barrier, if he sets his mind to something, he just does it and does it great? Dude has a machine shop. For fun. He does laser fabrication as a hobby.

So if you see me making fun of someone's weight, feel free to internet kick me or hit me with a newspaper or something.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

McCain Backs Down To Hannity: ‘I Never Quite Understood’ Global Warming

re: #87 Rightwingconspirator

So for a state to mirror the constitutional requirement is pandering to the birthers? Seems utterly harmless. I needed my birth certificate on several occasions, none as important as public office. So did Barry Obama.

Sure it is. Especially when you consider the motivation that is driving the sponsors.

re: #85 zora

upding for "feculent"

I love that word. I also love the word "befouled".

re: #88 WindUpBird

So if you see me making fun of someone's weight, feel free to internet kick me or hit me with a newspaper or something.

Me too. Then ask how many drinks I have had... And suggest bed rest.

re: #83 stevemcg

John McCain is like George H. Bush in the sense that eight years after their first Presidential campaign, when they finally had the nominations, they were shadows of the men they used to be.

I'd like to see how I'd fare after having the burden of protecting America on my shoulders for eight years.

How about you?

Maddow is doing the play-by-play of Anthony Weiner's rant in the senate. "he's back in the penalty box!" Great stuff.

I miss Pres. Bush.

re: #94 WindUpBird

Durr, congress I mean.

re: #86 Dark_Falcon

How is John McCain feculent?

Since he's my senator and I listened to his interviews re: Comprehensive Immigration Reform (IT'S NOT AMNESTY!!!111), his condescension to the constituents that attended some of his meetings ("I'll pay you $50/hr to pick lettuce, you can't do it my friend" - while a good 1/3 of the crowd was offering to take him up on the offer) and of course now he has reversed his position on that, which is good. Most Arizonans are in favor of securing the border, then dealing with the issue of the illegal immigrants that are already here.

I appreciate his military service. As a senator, and certainly as a presidential candidate I can't see too much to recommend him.

IMHO...

re: #95 MandyManners

I miss Pres. Bush.

I miss my ex wife...
but my aim is geting better

Also his initial support for cap & trade legislation. A non-solution to a real problem. Nice that he's turned around on that, too.

re: #93 MandyManners

I don't know what you mean. To me, each sold his soul to get the nomination. I don't see how having the burden of protecting America figures.

re: #97 Van Helsing

Since he's my senator and I listened to his interviews re: Comprehensive Immigration Reform (IT'S NOT AMNESTY!!!111), his condescension to the constituents that attended some of his meetings ("I'll pay you $50/hr to pick lettuce, you can't do it my friend" - while a good 1/3 of the crowd was offering to take him up on the offer) and of course now he has reversed his position on that, which is good. Most Arizonans are in favor of securing the border, then dealing with the issue of the illegal immigrants that are already here.

I appreciate his military service. As a senator, and certainly as a presidential candidate I can't see too much to recommend him.

IMHO...

I agree with you on immigration, but I also see him as strong on defense and against government waste. He's a better senator than most.

re: #87 Rightwingconspirator

So for a state to mirror the constitutional requirement is pandering to the birthers? Seems utterly harmless. I needed my birth certificate on several occasions, none as important as public office. So did Barry Obama.

But why waste the time?

re: #87 Rightwingconspirator

So for a state to mirror the constitutional requirement is pandering to the birthers? Seems utterly harmless. I needed my birth certificate on several occasions, none as important as public office. So did Barry Obama.

Can't Arizona's electoral board get that information from directly secret service? They would have already gone through the process of confirming the legitimacy of the documents, probably in a more thorough fashion than the states could. Do we really need every state in the union duplicating that effort for every candidate? Talk about government inefficiency...

re: #103 ShaunP

Can't Arizona's electoral board get that information from directly secret service? They would have already gone through the process of confirming the legitimacy of the documents, probably in a more thorough fashion than the states could. Do we really need every state in the union duplicating that effort for every candidate? Talk about government inefficiency...

It's a birther bill hook, line and sinker:

Bill stems from Obama 'birther' controversy

...
Rep. Judy Burges, R-Skull Valley, is crafting a measure to require anyone running for president or vice president to provide proof to the Arizona Secretary of State's Office that they are legally eligible to seek the office. The U.S. Constitution requires the president - and, by extension, the vice president - to be "a natural born citizen."

More to the point, Burges would require the secretary of state to verify, independently, that the information is accurate.

"And if it's not certifiable, then that person's name would not go on the ballot," she said.
...
Burges did not support Obama and is not a fan. And she said if, in fact, he is not a "natural born" citizen, that makes him suspect.

"When someone bows to the king of Saudi Arabia and they apologize for our country around the world, I have a problem with that," she said.
...
Burges said her suspicions about Obama go beyond that well-publicized bow in Saudi Arabia.

"Obama has a book and it said, when it came down to it, he would be on the Muslim side," Burges continued. "Doesn't that bother you just a little bit?"
...

The quote that Burges mentions is of course taken completely out of context.

re: #102 webevintage

I'm sure of two things on the time spent-Their time certainly could have been much better spent. And if we made a list of all the wasteful things they have spent time on, this would not make the top 10.

re: #103 ShaunP

Secret service? No. They should be busy elsewhere.
Producing a copy of a birth certificate is a routine requirement for all of us. Is see no reason to stop a state from asking a candidate for office to simply do the same.

I am not denying this is pandering I just say its harmless. If we make a list of pandering bills lets see if this makes the top ten, just for perspective.

re: #105 Rightwingconspirator

I'm sure of two things on the time spent-Their time certainly could have been much better spent. And if we made a list of all the wasteful things they have spent time on, this would not make the top 10.

Quite Concur.

Buddy, can you spare 800 thousand dollars? I want one of these for my house.

re: #95 MandyManners

I miss Pres. Bush.

Me too, especially that time he met Tinky Winky.

re: #101 Dark_Falcon

I agree with you on immigration, but I also see him as strong on defense and against government waste. He's a better senator than most.

I agree on that, but it would reassure me more if he was to be a whole lot more vocal about some of the waste. I recognize that there is little he can actually do, but I'd like to hear from him illuminating the kind of crap spending that still goes on even with the Most Ethical Congress Evah.

re: #98 albusteve

I miss my ex wife...
but my aim is geting better

You do know what I have over the mantle of one of my fireplaces, don't you?

BTW< I'll always believe that Dan Quayle's job was to make H impeachment-proof.

re: #100 SteveMcG

I don't know what you mean. To me, each sold his soul to get the nomination. I don't see how having the burden of protecting America figures.

Well, then, you'll never get it.

re: #109 goddamnedfrank

Me too, especially that time he met Tinky Winky.

Why don't you hop on an air carrier and make that joke?

re: #110 Van Helsing

I agree on that, but it would reassure me more if he was to be a whole lot more vocal about some of the waste. I recognize that there is little he can actually do, but I'd like to hear from him illuminating the kind of crap spending that still goes on even with the Most Ethical Congress Evah.

That I agree with.

re: #112 SteveMcG

Just like Joe Biden!

re: #87 Rightwingconspirator

So for a state to mirror the constitutional requirement is pandering to the birthers? Seems utterly harmless. I needed my birth certificate on several occasions, none as important as public office. So did Barry Obama.

It is pandering to the birthers.

For one thing, if a presidential candidate has travelled out of the country, and most have done so before they run for office, then they must have a US passport and to get that, they have to present a certified birth certificate.

I just looked up Louisiana's qualifying requirements to run for office, and realized that the only presidental qualifying they have is for those serving as electors in the electoral college; there are no requirements that the actual presidential candidate has to meet (in state - I'm sure there are qualifications the candidate has to meet through, probably, the party apparatus or something).

re: #110 Van Helsing

I agree on that, but it would reassure me more if he was to be a whole lot more vocal about some of the waste. I recognize that there is little he can actually do, but I'd like to hear from him illuminating the kind of crap spending that still goes on even with the Most Ethical Congress Evah.

Also, its good to see you. How have you been?

"Character matters." Yes, it does. Now, who was it who blamed President Bush for his own decision to panic/suspend his own presidential campaign? Who was it that spent less than two days researching his Vice Presidential nominee? Who was it that aired an ad attacking the same President Obama on the radio show of his primary candidate? Who was it that said "whatever" when one of his most popular laws (McCain-Feingold) was nullified by the Supreme Court this year? Don't lecture us about 'character', Senator. You showed your character loud and clear the last two years. You were a war hero in the 70s, a "maverick in the 80s and 90s" and a coward after 2000. Now you're just another angry old man desperate to hang on to a job he doesn't need because he can live comfortably off his wife's fortune.

I hope I'm not being too harsh, but I really wish there was an alternative in Arizona to the Hayworth/McCain ticket.

re: #113 MandyManners

Do you expect me to believe that they somehow bore the burden alone? It is obvious that ambition is the root of their transformations, not the wear and tear of eight years of heroically thwarting our enemies by endless fundraising and "Meet the Press" appearances.

Oh brother.

Sen. Scott Brown Dines With MassResistance

MassResistance, which has the distinction of being one of the few organizations classified as an anti-gay hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, just sent out an email bragging that the organization was invited to attend a breakfast meeting with Sen. Scott Brown earlier this week which included this photo of Brown with MassResistance head Brian Camenker...

Well tonight's American Idol...12 guys..11 sucked..
I thought last night was bad with maybe 2 girls binging down the house..
Tonight was horrible..#11 is the only guy I'll ever vote for.. Casey James will be the only guy that I would vote for...

re: #116 Rightwingconspirator

Just like Joe Biden!

Remember his face when Mrs. Biden blabbed about Joe getting first dibs for the job. If he was really an "impeachment deterrant", he wouldn't have gotten the choice.

re: #21 Walter L. Newton

He's really a fucking fat person, isn't he. I bet he smells too! Fat people always smell.

So..you're making a generalization to make a point.

What's your point Walter?

re: #111 MandyManners

You do know what I have over the mantle of one of my fireplaces, don't you?

You have multiple fireplaces in your home? You do pretty well for someone who blogs all day.(not that I'm complaining...I'm quite comfortable myself)

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

Also, its good to see you. How have you been?

Better than I have any right to be. Thanks for asking.
The eldest son is home for 4 weeks after his 2nd Iraq tour. He spent a week and a half in Hawaii with my wife and I (well, I got away from work for 4 days) and I've just generally been enjoying having him around.

Now I get back to the 10-12 hours days to make up for using my vacation time.

'Lean' business models suck at times...

re: #120 SteveMcG

Do you expect me to believe that they somehow bore the burden alone? It is obvious that ambition is the root of their transformations, not the wear and tear of eight years of heroically thwarting our enemies by endless fundraising and "Meet the Press" appearances.

How many times did Pres. Bush appear on MTP?

re: #122 HoosierHoops

They'll get better with practice. If you had a chance to compare the finalists in the late rounds with the early rounds you'd see a world of development. Idol's not my bag, but since it's on in the other room, I wind up hearing a lot of it.

re: #117 reine.de.tout

As I said, I do not deny that it's pandering. I just think its harmless. Way down the scale of things to worry about.

This is a good time to mention I am unconvinced more than a few of the birthers actually believe in a conspiracy or he is not a citizen. I truly think this is a deliberate lie they like. Its an insult. A jibe. A stick in the proverbial eye.
So as such I do not think them as so crazy as willing to be dishonest to insult our President. I have a whole different mindset about them, more subtle than a simple "those people are crazy".

re: #121 Gus 802

Oh brother.

Sen. Scott Brown Dines With MassResistance

Hate! It's what's for dinner!//

re: #126 Van Helsing

Better than I have any right to be. Thanks for asking.
The eldest son is home for 4 weeks after his 2nd Iraq tour. He spent a week and a half in Hawaii with my wife and I (well, I got away from work for 4 days) and I've just generally been enjoying having him around.

Now I get back to the 10-12 hours days to make up for using my vacation time.

'Lean' business models suck at times...

Agreed. I'm glad you got to spend some time with your son, and I'm grateful for his service.

re: #130 iceweasel

Hate! It's what's for dinner!//

That and stupidity. Brown is a fool to break bread with them.

Trivia sidebar, just because it's a McCain thread. It looks like we're never going to have a Korean War or Vietnam War veteran as President. Gore, Kerry, and McCain, Vietnam vets all, were all defeated. George W. Bush served in the Texas National Guard during the war. Carter and Mondale served in the military during the Korean War, but not in the conflict itself.

Further trivia: President Truman was the only World War One veteran to serve in combat (Ike served stateside). Presidents Eisenhower through Ford, and George H. W. Bush were all WWII vets, serving overseas. Reagan served stateside during the war.

re: #130 iceweasel

Hate! It's what's for dinner!//

C-Street here he comes!

re: #125 darthstar

You have multiple fireplaces in your home? You do pretty well for someone who blogs all day.(not that I'm complaining...I'm quite comfortable myself)

I don't just "blog" all day. I also volunteer for various causes, I am on a few committees at the club, I help raise funds for civic endeavors...oh, whatever.

Why the heck am I accounting for my day to you?

re: #127 MandyManners

Mandy, I meant George H Bush. I think he grated for eight years waiting for another chance to run, just like McCain did, and by the time the years had passed, they weren't going to let their principles get in the way when it was finally their turn.

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

That and stupidity. Brown is a fool to break bread with them.

Most definitely, but homophobia is all the rage (so to speak) on the right at the moment, and will be for the foreseeable future.

re: #55 MandyManners

I hope everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he wasn't "Conservative enough" is fucking happy now.

Eh. McCain goofed when Palin was chosen for his running mate.

re: #111 MandyManners

You do know what I have over the mantle of one of my fireplaces, don't you?

I thought you kept those pickled in a mason jar, on top of the TV.

Iran enriched more uranium today.

re: #133 The Sanity Inspector

Trivia sidebar, just because it's a McCain thread. It looks like we're never going to have a Korean War or Vietnam War veteran as President. Gore, Kerry, and McCain, Vietnam vets all, were all defeated. George W. Bush served in the Texas National Guard during the war. Carter and Mondale served in the military during the Korean War, but not in the conflict itself.

Further trivia: President Truman was the only World War One veteran to serve in combat (Ike served stateside). Presidents Eisenhower through Ford, and George H. W. Bush were all WWII vets, serving overseas. Reagan served stateside during the war.

One need not be in combat in order to be a veteran of war.

re: #135 MandyManners

I don't just "blog" all day. I also volunteer for various causes, I am on a few committees at the club, I help raise funds for civic endeavors...oh, whatever.

Why the heck am I accounting for my day to you?

What organizations do you volunteer for? I'm just curious.

re: #136 SteveMcG

Mandy, I meant George H Bush. I think he grated for eight years waiting for another chance to run, just like McCain did, and by the time the years had passed, they weren't going to let their principles get in the way when it was finally their turn.

Another chance to run? George H. Bush?

re: #134 Gus 802

C-Street here he comes!

Here she comes...

re: #126 Van Helsing

Better than I have any right to be. Thanks for asking.
The eldest son is home for 4 weeks after his 2nd Iraq tour. He spent a week and a half in Hawaii with my wife and I (well, I got away from work for 4 days) and I've just generally been enjoying having him around.

Now I get back to the 10-12 hours days to make up for using my vacation time.

'Lean' business models suck at times...

Thank your son for us for his service.

re: #138 eclectic infidel

Eh. McCain goofed when Palin was chosen for his running mate.

I note the passive voice of "was chosen".

re: #128 SteveMcG

They'll get better with practice. If you had a chance to compare the finalists in the late rounds with the early rounds you'd see a world of development. Idol's not my bag, but since it's on in the other room, I wind up hearing a lot of it.

I saw the very first American Idol shown.. I'm a big fan..I watch all of them..
I thought tonight with the woman so weak last night the Men would just come out really strong..Weak to say the least..Really weak guy singers...

re: #139 The Sanity Inspector

I thought you kept those pickled in a mason jar, on top of the TV.

Nah. I have only one. It's mounted.

re: #135 MandyManners

I don't just "blog" all day. I also volunteer for various causes, I am on a few committees at the club, I help raise funds for civic endeavors...oh, whatever.

Why the heck am I accounting for my day to you?

My apologies...I was just being snarky. Didn't mean to pry.

re: #133 The Sanity Inspector

Perhaps from the Modern Whigs we will get a president who is a veteran of Iraq or of Afghanistan.

re: #127 MandyManners

How many times did Pres. Bush appear on MTP?

How many?

re: #144 iceweasel

[Video]Here she comes...

I'm willing to bet that he's out in '12.

re: #140 Ojoe

Iran enriched more uranium today.

And, the centrifuges are spinning and spnning.

re: #129 Rightwingconspirator

As I said, I do not deny that it's pandering. I just think its harmless. Way down the scale of things to worry about.

This is a good time to mention I am unconvinced more than a few of the birthers actually believe in a conspiracy or he is not a citizen. I truly think this is a deliberate lie they like. Its an insult. A jibe. A stick in the proverbial eye.
So as such I do not think them as so crazy as willing to be dishonest to insult our President. I have a whole different mindset about them, more subtle than a simple "those people are crazy".

I agree!
They cannot seriously believe that he is not a citizen. They just can't, it is just utter nonsense.

re: #137 iceweasel

Most definitely, but homophobia is all the rage (so to speak) on the right at the moment, and will be for the foreseeable future.

And that's part of why I'm not sympathetic to the Religious Right like I used to be. Working with gay co-workers for 2.5 years has given me perspective, and I simply don't cotton to anti-gay rhetoric any longer.

re: #140 Ojoe

True.
The jig was up when NK set one or two off and got away with it.
Non proliferation has no teeth.

re: #149 darthstar

My apologies...I was just being snarky. Didn't mean to pry.

That's okay.

re: #156 Rightwingconspirator

We will pay.

re: #158 Ojoe

We will pay.

No. Israel will pay.

re: #152 Gus 802

I'm willing to bet that he's out in '12.

Get us a bookie and I'm in. With you, that is.
Brown's trying to straddle (cough) too many lines here. Mavericky, Massachusettsy, Teabaggy.

That wide stance is only going to end with a Blackberry falling into the toilet.

re: #145 The Sanity Inspector

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

I'll pass that on to him.
Thanks, folks.

re: #143 MandyManners

The point I am trying to make is that when George H Bush ran in 1988 he was nothing like the man who had run eight years before. In 1988 he embrace the moral majority that he ignored in 1980, he completely abandoned his economic philosophy and wtf was Dan Quayle doing on the ticket? 1980 George Bush railed against voodoo economics. The 1988 model embraced them.

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

America, the land where all are valued and accepted as long as they contribute to the whole.

The far right has lost it.

re: #156 Rightwingconspirator

nonproliferation never really had any teeth, tbh. Anybody that seriously wanted nukes and had money got them (see: India, Pakistan, Israel)

re: #162 SteveMcG

The point I am trying to make is that when George H Bush ran in 1988 he was nothing like the man who had run eight years before. In 1988 he embrace the moral majority that he ignored in 1980, he completely abandoned his economic philosophy and wtf was Dan Quayle doing on the ticket? 1980 George Bush railed against voodoo economics. The 1988 model embraced them.

George H. Bush did not run in 1988.

re: #159 MandyManners

No. Israel will pay.

Israel can take care of itself...they've got enough firepower to take out Egypt, Jordan, what's left of Iraq, and probably Iran (if you count nukes).

re: #140 Ojoe

Iran enriched more uranium today.

Lalalalala-we're not listening, we're not listening, the shah, the 1953 coup, we're not listening, lalalalalala...

re: #165 MandyManners

I presume you're just quibbling over whether he'd be "H" or "HW".

re: #166 darthstar

Israel can take care of itself...they've got enough firepower to take out Egypt, Jordan, what's left of Iraq, and probably Iran (if you count nukes).

So, you're okay with nuclear conflagration in Southwest Asia?

re: #159 MandyManners

In the final accounting, the crazies will pay the most.

Or, maybe we will use force soon enough to prevent a really big tragedy.
Probably not before 2012 though

re: #169 MandyManners

What do you want us to do about it?

re: #165 MandyManners

George H. Bush did not run in 1988.

He means George H.W. Bush, not W...

re: #171 windsagio

hmm that comes off a bit harsh, please don't take it that way :P

re: #165 MandyManners

Then how did he get inaugurated in 1989? Wasn't he the 41st President? Did I just drop in from an alternate universe?

BBL

re: #170 Ojoe

In the final accounting, the crazies will pay the most.

Or, maybe we will use force soon enough to prevent a really big tragedy.
Probably not before 2012 though

God bless BHO and any sane policies he has to smack the living shit out of Iran.

re: #162 SteveMcG

The point I am trying to make is that when George H Bush ran in 1988 he was nothing like the man who had run eight years before. In 1988 he embrace the moral majority that he ignored in 1980, he completely abandoned his economic philosophy and wtf was Dan Quayle doing on the ticket? 1980 George Bush railed against voodoo economics. The 1988 model embraced them.

Steve-- Mandy never figured out that you were 1) talking about Bush sr and 2) talking about the 8 year distance between his first run for POTUS and the 8 years between McCain's campaigns.

In other words, she hasn't understood the point of your post from the beginning. Hence the mindless comment about '8 years of protecting our freedums' or whatever.

*This lesson in wingnut reading comprehension was paid for by a grant from the Soros Foundation, and brought to you by PBS.*

re: #169 MandyManners

So, you're okay with nuclear conflagration in Southwest Asia?

Nope...I'm against anyone having nukes. Otherwise, everyone should have them. Israel has them (though they smile and deny it). Pakistan has them (those scare me the most right now as that country's about as stable as a Tea Party delegate off his meds). India has them (and they're building more). Either get everyone to dump 'em, or make sure everyone has a dozen or so so noone is stupid enough to use them in fear of retaliation.

re: #160 iceweasel

Get us a bookie and I'm in. With you, that is.
Brown's trying to straddle (cough) too many lines here. Mavericky, Massachusettsy, Teabaggy.

That wide stance is only going to end with a Blackberry falling into the toilet.

Tea Partiers like to talk a big line about liberty but it's a bunch of BS. Brian Camenker is one of them and that movement is chock full of homophobes and other haters.

re: #174 SteveMcG

Then how did he get inaugurated in 1989? Wasn't he the 41st President? Did I just drop in from an alternate universe?

ROFLMAO!

re: #160 iceweasel

COCKPUNCH!

re: #170 Ojoe

In the final accounting, the crazies will pay the most.

Or, maybe we will use force soon enough to prevent a really big tragedy.
Probably not before 2012 though

Certainly you're not implying that the pre-emptive use of force or a disproportionate response could actually do good are you?

/

heh, and we're off >>

re: #176 MandyManners

Fine by me if he smacks them

I might even vote for him if he does

(yes "BBL")

re: #177 iceweasel

I didn't realize she was a wingnut. Nutty, maybe, wingy, nah.

re: #178 darthstar

Nope...I'm against anyone having nukes. Otherwise, everyone should have them. Israel has them (though they smile and deny it). Pakistan has them (those scare me the most right now as that country's about as stable as a Tea Party delegate off his meds). India has them (and they're building more). Either get everyone to dump 'em, or make sure everyone has a dozen or so so noone is stupid enough to use them in fear of retaliation.

Whoa.

Do you think MAD will work with Iran?

re: #177 iceweasel

Steve-- Mandy never figured out that you were 1) talking about Bush sr and 2) talking about the 8 year distance between his first run for POTUS and the 8 years between McCain's campaigns.

In other words, she hasn't understood the point of your post from the beginning. Hence the mindless comment about '8 years of protecting our freedums' or whatever.

*This lesson in wingnut reading comprehension was paid for by a grant from the Soros Foundation, and brought to you by PBS.*

Don't call Mandy a wingnut. She is a clear-thinking, sane conservative.

re: #158 Ojoe

re: #159 MandyManners

You are both right in the short term. And Mandy, they can get one here as soon as they have them, on a plane or ship.

They have a space program, set to orbit satellites. Every nation that can orbit any serious mass at all can attack nearly anywhere on the globe. Between GPS and google earth navigation is pretty easy these days. Look into the future more than a few years and you see dozens of nations becoming space and nuclear capable. Someday (a mere century?) 50 nations or more will be that advanced.

re: #124 eclectic infidel

So..you're making a generalization to make a point.

What's your point Walter?

Most people caught this up thread... I was being sarcastic... why are we pointing out this guys weight? What does it matter how big he is? Once again I see people making sport of other people because of some physical condition. I don't find that enjoyable. You do?

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

OK I was gonna stay out of it, but that broke my brain :(

So I'll just leave it with a random quote:

"Even in Utopia there's Myopia"

re: #150 Ojoe

Perhaps from the Modern Whigs we will get a president who is a veteran of Iraq or of Afghanistan.

That's something to consider, that right now there's a young captain serving, who in 30 years' time will run for President, invoking the storied names of his former commanders, Petraeus and Odierno and McChrystal. You can already envision the debates: "Now, my opponent was perfectly within her rights as an American to picket Walter Reed Hospital with her Code Pink comrades, while I was fighting street to street with my Marines in Fallujah. But still..."

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

Don't call Mandy a wingnut. She is a clear-thinking, sane conservative.

And one that doesn't mince words or insults.

But mandy, seriously. Do you have a suggestion for what to do about Iran's nuclear program, or is it not okay for others to ask that?

You sure seem to want to know what others would like to do >

Bush 41 listened to Colin Powell and wisely decided not to occupy Iraq.

Bush 43 forced the same General Powell into lying to the UN about "mobile weapons labs" and "mushroom clouds".

The difference is remarkable.

re: #186 MandyManners

Whoa.

Do you think MAD will work with Iran?

Yes. Iran's leadership isn't as secure as those who want to see it preemptively destroyed to protect Israel will have you believe. And there's so much about that country that is beautiful, that turning it into a war zone would be criminal. I know a lot of Iranians (just as I know a lot of Israelis and Jews who have lived in Israel), and they don't like Ahmadinejad any more than we do. After the election fiasco recently, they're on even shakier ground right now. An iron thumb will only keep that government in power for so long.

re: #189 Walter L. Newton

Most people caught this up thread... I was being sarcastic... why are we pointing out this guys weight? What does it matter how big he is? Once again I see people making sport of other people because of some physical condition. I don't find that enjoyable. You do?

No, I don't.

re: #30 _RememberTonyC

The media allowed Obama to run against Bush and McCain was simply not going to prevail.

That was it, huh?

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

Don't call Mandy a wingnut. She is a clear-thinking, sane conservative.

It was a lesson in wingnut reading comprehension:

1. Totally misunderstand what's going on.
2. Random 'patriotic' sentiments, vague accusations that the 'other' is somehow not patriotic
3. Never admit you didn't have a clue
4. Never apologise.
5. change subject when all else fails.

Yep, regardless of what Miss Manners is or is not, this was classic wingnut reading incomprehension.

People using crazy talk tonight.

Cockpunch? Don't think I've ever even seen that word.

I'm sitting kind of funny right now.

re: #177 iceweasel

Being a little catty, aren't we?

re: #178 darthstar

But that is not what we will get. We will get additions to the club because when stable regimes went nuclear we did nothing effective at changing that. Then when a regime as harsh as NK tested, we did nothing hardly at all.
The die is cast.

re: #195 darthstar

Also, US intervention will actually make the gov't more secure unless we try to occupy the whole nation a'la Iraq... and good luck with that.

They don't like american Imperialism.

re: #186 MandyManners

The Iranians won't be as reckless with a nuke as you may fear.

re: #202 windsagio

Also, US intervention will actually make the gov't more secure unless we try to occupy the whole nation a'la Iraq... and good luck with that.

They don't like american Imperialism.

Hell, I don't like American Imperialism. Did we learn nothing from the English?

re: #200 talon_262

Being a little catty, aren't we?

Nah. I made a joke and people want to turn it into a fight. Not gonna happen.

re: #199 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

People using crazy talk tonight.

Cockpunch? Don't think I've ever even seen that word.

I'm sitting kind of funny right now.

Really, how about pudwhacker?

re: #193 windsagio

But mandy, seriously. Do you have a suggestion for what to do about Iran's nuclear program, or is it not okay for others to ask that?

You sure seem to want to know what others would like to do >

I'll go by what Israel thinks should be done.

Olympic news..S. Korea just lost short track from disqualification...No medals tonight..Can we finally face the truth that they push, punch and cheat?
I hate their sportsmanship...
/You lose.. what comes around goes around you bitches!
You got busted tonight.. Train more cheat less
//Bitches!
USA!

re: #204 darthstar

Well we've been essentially beneficiaries of it, so we don't feel it like they do.

In Iran they have real reason to be wary of us messing with them.

(LOLASSASINATEDDEMOCRATICALLYELECTEDPRESIDENT)

re: #195 darthstar

Yes. Iran's leadership isn't as secure as those who want to see it preemptively destroyed to protect Israel will have you believe. And there's so much about that country that is beautiful, that turning it into a war zone would be criminal. I know a lot of Iranians (just as I know a lot of Israelis and Jews who have lived in Israel), and they don't like Ahmadinejad any more than we do. After the election fiasco recently, they're on even shakier ground right now. An iron thumb will only keep that government in power for so long.

Ever heard of the 12th Imam?

re: #207 MandyManners

I'm all for letting them handle it, if it needs to be handled at all >

re: #178 darthstar

Nope...I'm against anyone having nukes. Otherwise, everyone should have them. Israel has them (though they smile and deny it). Pakistan has them (those scare me the most right now as that country's about as stable as a Tea Party delegate off his meds). India has them (and they're building more). Either get everyone to dump 'em, or make sure everyone has a dozen or so so noone is stupid enough to use them in fear of retaliation.

You've got good people and bad people in the world. It is a Good Thing for the former to outnumber and outgun the latter.

And before you start, "Who are we to judge?" is a question, not an answer.

re: #194 Linden Arden

Bush 41 listened to Colin Powell and wisely decided not to occupy Iraq.

Bush 43 forced the same General Powell into lying to the UN about "mobile weapons labs" and "mushroom clouds".

The difference is remarkable.

Do you think Powell was forced into lying, or do you think he was lied to?
I suspect both, actually. First he was lied to, then later he was stuck and had to keep going.

re: #210 MandyManners

Ever heard of the 12th Imam?

Was that Judas or Peter?
/

re: #129 Rightwingconspirator

As I said, I do not deny that it's pandering. I just think its harmless. Way down the scale of things to worry about.

This is a good time to mention I am unconvinced more than a few of the birthers actually believe in a conspiracy or he is not a citizen. I truly think this is a deliberate lie they like. Its an insult. A jibe. A stick in the proverbial eye.
So as such I do not think them as so crazy as willing to be dishonest to insult our President. I have a whole different mindset about them, more subtle than a simple "those people are crazy".

And you know, it's not really harmless, inasmuch as it feeds the birther craziness.

Look - we've passed a law requiring the birth certificate of a presdential candidate! There must be some reason why . . .

re: #206 Jeff In Ohio

Really, how about pudwhacker?

Heard it.

re: #203 SteveMcG

The Iranians won't be as reckless with a nuke as you may fear.

And what amends can you or anyone else who thinks so make, if that's not true?

re: #212 The Sanity Inspector

You've got good people and bad people in the world. It is a Good Thing for the former to outnumber and outgun the latter.

And before you start, "Who are we to judge?" is a question, not an answer.

I refuse to live with that kind of fear.

re: #205 iceweasel

Nah. I made a joke and people want to turn it into a fight. Not gonna happen.

I'm not trying to fight with you, ice. I just did not agree with what I though your characterization was. You have since clarified your characterization to my satisfaction, in a way that makes it clear you did not mean an insult.

re: #217 The Sanity Inspector

What amends would you make if some Russian general suddenly had a psychotic break and nuked Poland? It would be totally our responsibility!

re: #213 iceweasel

Is there a teensy tiny ittle bitty chance that they believed it? A lot of other people at the time believed it.

About Iran (and I try to be brief), They won't put a nuke on a missile. They make pretty pictures but I don't even think they would trust one of their own rockets to come down where it's supposed to. And I don't think they will want the inevitable blood of Palestinians who will also perish from a nuke on their hands. They would be contaminating Holy Ground. ANd, the guys who would launch the missiles will want to be around to enjoy the fruits of the devestation. I have no doubt they enjoy sending young men to die, but I doubt they would put their own necks on the line.

re: #203 SteveMcG

Iran-A nation with deliberate trained suicide bombers as part of their regular military. A nation that has epic terrorist ties. A nation that has a huge religious component to the military structure.

Not me. Not at all.

re: #216 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Heard it.

That's a relief. I was thinking I might have to school you.

re: #214 darthstar

Was that Judas or Peter?
/

*sigh*

re: #210 MandyManners

Mythical Big Guy returning from the dead to save all the critters.

Substitute "Jesus" if appropriate.

re: #213 iceweasel

Do you think Powell was forced into lying, or do you think he was lied to?
I suspect both, actually. First he was lied to, then later he was stuck and had to keep going.

I think Powell had bad information and gave his presentation on what he thought was true. So did Bush and Cheney. Our intel was bad, and it caused us to make a serious mistake.

re: #225 MandyManners

*sigh*

Awww...you downdinged me for that?

re: #222 SteveMcG

For now they have those limitations. Orbital launch capacity has serious ramifications. Geosynch orbital capacity is way past ICBM tech. Iran wants to put up satellites that high.

re: #205 iceweasel

Silly girl, they always want to make it a fight.

re: #217 The Sanity Inspector

You can't make amends any more than you could for Munich 1938. Strategically, we have few options, and don't expect the Isrealis to bail you out. Because they can't.

re: #220 windsagio

What amends would you make if some Russian general suddenly had a psychotic break and nuked Poland? It would be totally our the Germans' responsibility!

/because I share The Comedian's outlook on nuclear apocalypse.

re: #213 iceweasel

Do you think Powell was forced into lying, or do you think he was lied to?
I suspect both, actually. First he was lied to, then later he was stuck and had to keep going.

Never. Such things do not happen in the world of politics///

re: #232 laZardo

Stupid Germans. Master race my ass.

re: #228 darthstar

Awww...you downdinged me for that?

Well, you kept it righteous. I was going to go with Spinal Taps twelfth drummer.

re: #234 windsagio

Stupid Germans. Master race my ass.

They certainly couldn't handle the Canadians on the ice.

re: #236 darthstar

Man wouldn't it be nice if the best country really was decided by the Olympics?

re: #198 iceweasel

1. Totally misunderstand what's going on.
2. Random 'patriotic' sentiments, vague accusations that the 'other' is somehow not patriotic
3. Never admit you didn't have a clue
4. Never apologise.
5. change subject when all else fails.

Evidently you've seen the writing on the wall hand of every fox news pundit ;)

re: #234 windsagio

Maybe not the master race, but for the life of me I can't figure out how two thirds of the German army held of the might of the Soviet Union for almost four years.

re: #237 windsagio

Man wouldn't it be nice if the best country really was decided by the Olympics?

Or the World Cup.

Decide all wars with a sporting event.

re: #237 windsagio

Man wouldn't it be nice if the best country really was decided by the Olympics?

Dionne has the answer.

re: #218 darthstar

I refuse to live with that kind of fear.

Fear? Why does facing facts instead of just plugging in our Ipod earbuds a little tighter equal "fear"? It's an unpleasant reality, no question. But being fearful would be our worst mistake.

It's the responsibility of the government to predict the worst that Iran could do, nevermind what they say they'll do, and plan accordingly.

And no, I have no solution to this conundrum.

re: #226 Linden Arden

Okay. You're not nice.

Bye.

re: #210 MandyManners

Ever heard of the 12th Imam?

Ever heard of the Book of Revelations?

Dominionists want dominion, film at eleven.

re: #239 SteveMcG

They were pretty awesome except for that whole 'Nazi' thing.

re: #239 SteveMcG

I recommend reading "A War To Be Won" for an answer to this and other questions about WWII.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

re: #55 MandyManners

I hope everyone who refused to vote for McCain because he wasn't "Conservative enough" is fucking happy now.

I refused to vote for McCain because he picked a bubble-headed bimbo to be the one who would have taken over if he scratched his ticket in office. But then you know that.

re: #241 darthstar

I have to link the free association >>

re: #240 Linden Arden

Or the World Cup.

Decide all wars with a sporting event.

That's a good idea, we can decide the fate of the two Koreas using their native sport!

re: #245 windsagio

When I was little I thought they had the coolest tanks. Then I saw The World at War.

re: #233 Jimmah

Never. Such things do not happen in the world of politics///

I blame the lack of vision from the Gulf war 1.. We had Saddam on the ropes..
After the point we really didn't finish the war off after ecological terrorism by burning the oil fields by Saddam..We pushed it off to future generations..
America needs better vision

re: #213 iceweasel

Do you think Powell was forced into lying, or do you think he was lied to?
I suspect both, actually. First he was lied to, then later he was stuck and had to keep going.

I don't think anyone thought they were being lied to.
WMDs in Iraq

re: #154 reine.de.tout

I agree!
They cannot seriously believe that he is not a citizen. They just can't, it is just utter nonsense.

Perhaps not, but this behavior really is, if nothing else, REALLY RUDE.

re: #244 goddamnedfrank

Ever heard of the Book of Revelations?

Dominionists want dominion, film at eleven.

Argh, those Joel's Army people scare the bejeezus out of me.
So to speak.

They really do scare me, though.

re: #252 Van Helsing

I thought they were lying :p

re: #226 Linden Arden

Mythical Big Guy returning from the dead to save all the critters.

Substitute "Jesus" if appropriate.

Pretty much the same idea. Except the 12th imam will not have a scorpion army to help him kick ass like some returning demi-gods I could mention ;-)

re: #244 goddamnedfrank

Ever heard of the Book of Revelations?

Dominionists want dominion, film at eleven.