Video: A Warming World - Piecing Together The Temperature Puzzle

Environment • Views: 5,200

Here’s a video from NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies with stunning satellite imagery, illustrating the basic principles of global warming. If you already know the basics, you won’t get any new information from this — but it’s worth watching anyway for the pretty pictures. The 720p HD version is beautiful.

Youtube Video

(Hat tip: Thanos.)

Jump to bottom

405 comments
1 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 3:59:58pm

No new info for lizards, but for others this might be info they aren't aware of.

2 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:06:43pm

Nothing new to see here.

3 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:08:02pm

Well, I take that back, it's freezing up on me... that's what happens with three computers going at the same time on DSL. I wish the mountains would get some cable broadband.

4 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:08:56pm

Pretty pictures - an understatement. Nice time lapse images.

5 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:10:24pm

Bah nothing new hear you can't learn by watching your Matt Groening...

6 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:10:39pm

The important thing to me is that this is direct from Goddard and Nasa. There's already a downding campaign to derate the video, take a second to rate it up if you like it.

7 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:11:59pm

And it's snowing very heavy right now. Big March like flakes, wet, about an inch so far. Weather forecast said barely no accumulation... wrong again. Let's see how wrong.

Late snows (Mar. Apr. May) can be the worst snows of the whole season. Easy to get big heavy dumps.

8 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:12:31pm

re: #6 Thanos

???

9 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:13:46pm

re: #6 Thanos

The important thing to me is that this is direct from Goddard and Nasa. There's already a downding campaign to derate the video, take a second to rate it up if you like it.

I can't stream it... the step-critters are on faster laptops than this 7 year old tower, and they are always watching videos, suck all my bandwidth (yet I pay for it, how does that work?)

10 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:14:54pm

Okay solar activity/sunspots got discussed. Why is the variables of the orbital track not discussed?

I get lost honestly, I lack the time to keep up. Has this been debunked?
[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

11 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:15:55pm

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

And it's snowing very heavy right now. Big March like flakes, wet, about an inch so far. Weather forecast said barely no accumulation... wrong again. Let's see how wrong.

Late snows (Mar. Apr. May) can be the worst snows of the whole season. Easy to get big heavy dumps.

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

And it's snowing very heavy right now. Big March like flakes, wet, about an inch so far. Weather forecast said barely no accumulation... wrong again. Let's see how wrong.

Late snows (Mar. Apr. May) can be the worst snows of the whole season. Easy to get big heavy dumps.

we are getting hammered in NYC (no statement one way or the other on AGW) It has been snowing heavy since last night- but it's 37 degrees... the word for today is slush.

12 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:16:47pm

re: #9 Walter L. Newton

Wireless or copper? If copper unplug them from the switch/hub. Problem fixed.

13 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:17:26pm

Ahh duty calls. BRB

14 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:18:08pm

re: #11 brookly red

Storms that track up the East Coast are always fun. A few miles west, you get hammered, a few miles east, you get jack squat. Makes predicting them rather hard.

15 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:18:37pm

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

And it's snowing very heavy right now. Big March like flakes, wet, about an inch so far. Weather forecast said barely no accumulation... wrong again. Let's see how wrong.

Late snows (Mar. Apr. May) can be the worst snows of the whole season. Easy to get big heavy dumps.

Gonna' go shake out your trees?

16 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:18:49pm

re: #10 Rightwingconspirator

Looks like just bad reporting.

He continued: "Note that we have here focused on the long-term natural climate trends that are related to changes in Earth's orbit around the Sun. Our study is therefore relevant to the long-term climate future, and not so much for the next decades or century."

A case of "paper and scientist don't say what the article claims they do".

17 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:19:39pm

re: #8 brookly red

Goddard

18 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:20:50pm

Just great. Now nitrous oxide is a greenhouse gas? I get the distinct impression that these guys don't want me getting high on anything.
/

19 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:20:58pm

re: #12 Bubblehead II

Wireless or copper? If copper unplug them from the switch/hub. Problem fixed.

They are on wireless, just like me. I have a wireless card in my tower, since the only place I could put my tower was in the common room/kitchen area. There is a hard wired tower in a back bedroom, which is usually commandeered by one of the critters, watching video on the hard wire source.

Really kills bandwidth for everyone else in the house.

It's not unusual for having 1 hard wired and 3 wireless computers going at the same time when everyone is home.

20 darthstar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:21:00pm

Will Shatner is going to do a TV pilot for "Shit my dad says" That's the twitter page where the guy posts the random rantings of his 73 year old father.

And no, his dad isn't John McCain.

21 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:21:09pm

re: #14 Varek Raith

Storms that track up the East Coast are always fun. A few miles west, you get hammered, a few miles east, you get jack squat. Makes predicting them rather hard.

yup... on this side of the Hudson 37 degrees & slush... in Jersey 31 degrees and snow. Lots & lots of snow & we are talking maybe a 4 mile difference.

22 windsagio  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:21:27pm

re: #18 Slumbering Behemoth

Wait till they start talking aobut the smoke from your joint...


Bastards.

23 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:22:07pm

re: #22 windsagio

Wait till they start talking aobut the smoke from your joint...

Bastards.

I've always said, brownies people! You don't get lung cancer from eating brownies!

24 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:22:18pm

re: #17 Thanos

Goddard

got that, it was the up/down ding biz that made me go huh?

25 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:22:25pm

re: #10 Rightwingconspirator

Okay solar activity/sunspots got discussed. Why is the variables of the orbital track not discussed?

I get lost honestly, I lack the time to keep up. Has this been debunked?
[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

I don't think it needs debunking - it's just more data. The paper isn't refuting modern AGW theory, it's talking about the possibility that even early MM changes from agriculture etc. could have staved off the normal glacial cycle. That theory is still in development, and it's not as widely accepted as is this century man made contributions to warming.

26 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:22:30pm

re: #10 Rightwingconspirator

Okay solar activity/sunspots got discussed. Why is the variables of the orbital track not discussed?

I get lost honestly, I lack the time to keep up. Has this been debunked?
[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

They don't discuss it because it is very long period changes, as in 20,000+ years between even the minor oscillation cycles. There is a wealth of information online if you choose to review it, you will find that it has no bearing on the current cliamte cycle at all.

In other words they don't think to mention it because it does not apply, scientists, go figure...

27 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:22:48pm

Click watch on Youtube. Click 720p. Pause. Let it load.

Looks better.

28 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:24:05pm

re: #20 darthstar

Your first link isn't working for me, but that would be freaking awe-some!

"Don't mess with him...Trust me, you don't fuck with a man that sleeps next to a woman he never screws. They're unpredictable."

29 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:25:03pm

re: #22 windsagio

Wait till they start talking aobut the smoke from your joint...

Bastards.

My joint doesn't smoke. It mostly just creaks and pops.

30 darthstar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:25:56pm

re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth

Your first link isn't working for me, but that would be freaking awe-some!

"Don't mess with him...Trust me, you don't fuck with a man that sleeps next to a woman he never screws. They're unpredictable."

Second try...

Previewed...it works.

31 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:26:00pm

re: #29 Slumbering Behemoth

My joint doesn't smoke. It mostly just creaks and pops.

The hell you rolling into it???
/

32 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:27:29pm

Regarding current weather:

[Link: www.giss.nasa.gov...]

So, what has been going on out there these past few months? As for the Arctic winter weather, it is exactly that — Arctic. A pattern of high sea-level pressure over the Arctic has led to weaker westerly winds that typically pin cold air closer to the North pole. According to John M. Wallace, an atmospheric sciences professor at the University of Washington, the weakened jet stream has allowed cold Arctic air to creep into more southern latitudes over the U.S., Canada, Europe and Asia.

This pattern of pressure is called the "Arctic Oscillation." The oscillation comes in two phases: a "negative phase" where there is relatively high pressure over the North pole and low pressure at the mid-latitudes (at about 45 degrees North); and a "positive phase" in which this pressure system is reversed. This winter, the Arctic Oscillation has been in an extremely negative state. This has caused unseasonably cold air masses to sweep over what are normally temperate latitudes, and unusually mild air masses to be brought in over much of the Arctic itself, Wallace explained.

33 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:27:32pm

Grizzlies encroach on polar bear territory

Grizzly bears are being spotted in Manitoba, Canada, where biologists say only polar bears are usually found.

Scientists from City University of New York say sightings are increasing.

"Grizzlies would likely hibernate in polar bear maternity denning habitat," says CUNY's Linda Gormezano.

They would come out of hibernation at the same time and can kill polar cubs," warned Ms Gormezano, who has seen the grizzlies from the air.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

34 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:27:43pm

re: #29 Slumbering Behemoth

My joint doesn't smoke. It mostly just creaks and pops.

creak not good... pop? still hope...

35 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:28:05pm

re: #31 Varek Raith

Sometimes Bengay, sometimes Icy Hot.

36 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:28:31pm

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

Bummer. Our network is now all copper. Wireless has caused too many headaches here at BH HQ. Though you could always change the password at the server while your on.

Very Evil Grin

37 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:29:56pm

BBIAW. Beer run.

38 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:30:44pm

re: #37 Bubblehead II

a noble pursuit...

39 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:31:24pm

re: #16 Obdicut

Okay thanks. I am experiencing issue data point overload-Elections-AGW-Health reform-economy *sound of scream*

40 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:31:41pm

re: #18 Slumbering Behemoth

Only on Virgin Air.

41 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:32:05pm

re: #39 Rightwingconspirator

Okay thanks. I am experiencing issue data point overload-Elections-AGW-Health reform-economy *sound of scream*

Heh, I find blowing crap up in games greatly helps with such overloads.
;)

42 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:32:39pm

re: #23 jamesfirecat

Or the "volcano" vaporizer. :)>

43 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:33:06pm

re: #39 Rightwingconspirator

Okay thanks. I am experiencing issue data point overload-Elections-AGW-Health reform-economy *sound of scream*

drink.

44 Kragar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:33:11pm

re: #36 Bubblehead II

Bummer. Our network is now all copper. Wireless has caused too many headaches here at BH HQ. Though you could always change the password at the server while your on.

Very Evil Grin

My greatest WTF moment was when the LT asked if he could get a secure network drop set up as wireless.

45 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:33:50pm

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My greatest WTF moment was when the LT asked if he could get a secure network drop set up as wireless.

ROFL...

46 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:34:29pm

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My greatest WTF moment was when the LT asked if he could get a secure network drop set up as wireless.

Make him happy. Patch a STU-3 into a sound card.

47 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:34:38pm

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My greatest WTF moment was when the LT asked if he could get a secure network drop set up as wireless.

depends on the meaning of the word "secure"...

48 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:35:05pm

re: #32 Thanos

Regarding current weather:

[Link: www.giss.nasa.gov...]

So, what has been going on out there these past few months? As for the Arctic winter weather, it is exactly that — Arctic. A pattern of high sea-level pressure over the Arctic has led to weaker westerly winds that typically pin cold air closer to the North pole. According to John M. Wallace, an atmospheric sciences professor at the University of Washington, the weakened jet stream has allowed cold Arctic air to creep into more southern latitudes over the U.S., Canada, Europe and Asia.

This pattern of pressure is called the "Arctic Oscillation." The oscillation comes in two phases: a "negative phase" where there is relatively high pressure over the North pole and low pressure at the mid-latitudes (at about 45 degrees North); and a "positive phase" in which this pressure system is reversed. This winter, the Arctic Oscillation has been in an extremely negative state. This has caused unseasonably cold air masses to sweep over what are normally temperate latitudes, and unusually mild air masses to be brought in over much of the Arctic itself, Wallace explained.

Excellent post.

One of the most important facets of climate change is shifting currents in both air and water.

Many overlook this.

This is one of the primary issues from an ecological standpoint however.

If your crops/growing season/mating season/migrating times/blooming etc are dependent on local climates staying as they are, then deep shifts in how hot or how cold they are and for how long throws everything out of whack.

There will always be some denier idiot who then goes and claims that "for some this will be a benefit."

That's true. The species that do best in such situation are things like cockroaches and other vermin.

49 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:35:18pm

re: #41 Varek Raith

Heh. That's why I need to get back to the tactical pistol range I think. A little run and gun. Hmmm gotta call Dragon_Lady and line that up for Saturday.

50 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:36:27pm

re: #48 ludwigvanquixote

Excellent post.

One of the most important facets of climate change is shifting currents in both air and water.

Many overlook this.

This is one of the primary issues from an ecological standpoint however.

If your crops/growing season/mating season/migrating times/blooming etc are dependent on local climates staying as they are, then deep shifts in how hot or how cold they are and for how long throws everything out of whack.

There will always be some denier idiot who then goes and claims that "for some this will be a benefit."

That's true. The species that do best in such situation are things like cockroaches and other vermin.

Why is it whenever it looks like humanity has found a way to wipe itself out the cockroaches benefit? Damn it I want to take those exosketial bastards out with us!

51 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:37:09pm

re: #41 Varek Raith

I find this game exceedingly helpful at relieving stress. I wish they made more like 'em.

*CONTENT WARNING*

52 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:37:14pm

re: #50 jamesfirecat

Why is it whenever it looks like humanity has found a way to wipe itself out the cockroaches benefit? Damn it I want to take those exosketial bastards out with us!

I got a few spare P.S.P's in the basement...
:evilgrin:

53 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:37:30pm

re: #32 Thanos

Regarding current weather:

[Link: www.giss.nasa.gov...]

So, what has been going on out there these past few months? As for the Arctic winter weather, it is exactly that — Arctic. A pattern of high sea-level pressure over the Arctic has led to weaker westerly winds that typically pin cold air closer to the North pole. According to John M. Wallace, an atmospheric sciences professor at the University of Washington, the weakened jet stream has allowed cold Arctic air to creep into more southern latitudes over the U.S., Canada, Europe and Asia.

This pattern of pressure is called the "Arctic Oscillation." The oscillation comes in two phases: a "negative phase" where there is relatively high pressure over the North pole and low pressure at the mid-latitudes (at about 45 degrees North); and a "positive phase" in which this pressure system is reversed. This winter, the Arctic Oscillation has been in an extremely negative state. This has caused unseasonably cold air masses to sweep over what are normally temperate latitudes, and unusually mild air masses to be brought in over much of the Arctic itself, Wallace explained.

The negative phase oscillation has resulted in snow over wide area. That snow is reflecting some heat back out into space correct?

54 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:38:25pm

re: #51 Slumbering Behemoth

I find this game exceedingly helpful at relieving stress. I wish they made more like 'em.

*CONTENT WARNING*

I've been playing Alien Vs Predator and having Great Fun ripping off people's heads.
:P

55 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:38:43pm

re: #41 Varek Raith

Heh, I find blowing crap up in games greatly helps with such overloads.
;)

Any excuse to trot out something with a Superlaser, eh Varek? :D

56 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:39:19pm

re: #50 jamesfirecat

The meek inherit...

57 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:39:32pm

To continue the discussion of changing currents...

Ask a farmer what happens when you have vastly less or more rain, or things bloom too early or too late.

The fact is that the UNITED STATES is looking at drastic reductions in food supply from the following sources:

1. Lack of freshwater/rain
2. Shifting growing patterns
3. Plants are actually very temperature sensitive.

As an example.

Almost all of our food in America is corn based (in terms of what we feed livestock). Corn has a near 90% drop in growth is it gets a mere three degrees warmer on average.

58 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:40:04pm

re: #56 Rightwingconspirator

The meek inherit...

...a burned out cinder. They can have it!
;)

59 darthstar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:40:08pm

re: #51 Slumbering Behemoth

Warriors...come out to play-ay...

60 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:40:29pm

re: #50 jamesfirecat

Why is it whenever it looks like humanity has found a way to wipe itself out the cockroaches benefit? Damn it I want to take those exosketial bastards out with us!

They were around 60 million years before us and will be here 60 million after us. Truthfully, they are a marvel of evolution.

Then again so are many icky things.

61 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:41:21pm

re: #60 ludwigvanquixote

They were around 60 million years before us and will be here 60 million after us. Truthfully, they are a marvel of evolution.

Then again so are many icky things.

Bugs are awesome.

62 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:42:07pm

re: #53 Racer X

The negative phase oscillation has resulted in snow over wide area. That snow is reflecting some heat back out into space correct?

Heat is not reflected. You mean IR, the answer is yes it does increase our albedo a little. Too bad the snow doesn't last and the CO2 is still up there.

The one effect does not balance the other.

The CO2 wins.

63 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:42:27pm

re: #57 ludwigvanquixote

To continue the discussion of changing currents...

Ask a farmer what happens when you have vastly less or more rain, or things bloom too early or too late.

The fact is that the UNITED STATES is looking at drastic reductions in food supply from the following sources:

1. Lack of freshwater/rain
2. Shifting growing patterns
3. Plants are actually very temperature sensitive.

As an example.

Almost all of our food in America is corn based (in terms of what we feed livestock). Corn has a near 90% drop in growth is it gets a mere three degrees warmer on average.

A. stop eating livestock
B. invest in Canadian corn futures

64 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:43:10pm

re: #57 ludwigvanquixote

To continue the discussion of changing currents...

Ask a farmer what happens when you have vastly less or more rain, or things bloom too early or too late.

The fact is that the UNITED STATES is looking at drastic reductions in food supply from the following sources:

1. Lack of freshwater/rain
2. Shifting growing patterns
3. Plants are actually very temperature sensitive.

As an example.

Almost all of our food in America is corn based (in terms of what we feed livestock). Corn has a near 90% drop in growth is it gets a mere three degrees warmer on average.

Would it be possible to breed crops with more temperature tolerance? That might seem like a good tactic. Not proposed as subsitute for anti-AGW action, but rather a measure to deal with such warming as occurs.

65 Kragar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:46:29pm

re: #47 brookly red

depends on the meaning of the word "secure"...

The fun part was this officer was part of the Division intel office.

66 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:46:36pm

re: #50 jamesfirecat

Why is it whenever it looks like humanity has found a way to wipe itself out the cockroaches benefit? Damn it I want to take those exosketial bastards out with us!

Jaron Lanier proposed using the 'redundant' parts of the DNA of Manhattans cockroaches to store a digital record of human culture on, the idea being that they would survive anything, so it would be the most secure form of 'time capsule' available to us. Also, the records could be pieced together again following a nuclear armageddon or whatever, even after the insects have been breeding and mixing it up.

Here's the original article: [Link: www.jaronlanier.com...]

67 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:46:49pm

re: #57 ludwigvanquixote

Corn has a near 90% drop in growth as it gets a mere three degrees warmer on average.

May I ask where you obtained this info?

68 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:47:57pm

re: #65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The fun part was this officer was part of the Division intel office.

hence my distrust of authority...

69 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:49:05pm

re: #47 brookly red

I'm back and WEP certainly isn't the definition.

70 darthstar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:49:41pm

re: #51 Slumbering Behemoth

I find this game exceedingly helpful at relieving stress. I wish they made more like 'em.

*CONTENT WARNING*

Aw, fuck it...here's the clip

71 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:49:44pm

re: #63 brookly red

A. stop eating livestock
B. invest in Canadian corn futures

No more prime rib?! boo...ooo

72 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:49:54pm

re: #67 Racer X

May I ask where you obtained this info?

//Denier! Racist!, Heretic! Enemy of the people! dirty stinking Republican!

73 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:50:36pm

re: #71 MandyManners

No more prime rib?! boo...ooo

hey, save the planet...

74 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:51:11pm

re: #59 darthstar

Warriors...come out to play-ay...

You forgot to clink the beer bottles together...

"Warriors 'clink-clink' come out to play-ay 'clink-clink' Warriors come out to play-ay!"

Good flick, one of a kind for sure.

75 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:51:37pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Would it be possible to breed crops with more temperature tolerance? That might seem like a good tactic. Not proposed as subsitute for anti-AGW action, but rather a measure to deal with such warming as occurs.

There are fundamental limits and trade offs involved.

Botany and plant biology is not my specialty, so I asked that same question to a colleague in that field.

She said, that we have spent 100 years optimizing corn for growing very fast and with very high yield in the conditions that we now have.

Modifications to make it more temperature resistant mean it grows more slowly and produces less yield. Things that do well in hot arid environments
grow slowly. Consider the cactus.

Further, the point is moot if you can not water your crops adequately.

The United States is looking at a 50-75% reduction in soil moisture from lack of rainfall over the entire country.

That does not translate linearly into 50-75% less food. It is of course, worse than that.

The crops either get enough water to thrive or they do not.

People need to wake up and get the fact that not only is the science saying that unless we change course now, things will get very very grim, but if we let that happen we will not be able to fix it. There will be no magic bullet.

I am astonished at people who take that stance and also deny AGW.

On the one hand they assume that they know better than us scientists and that we are full of crap when we talk about this. On the other, they assume that just in case they are wrong, we clod headed scientists will come up with a magic miracle fix in the nick of time.

Let me repeat. There will be no miracle fix.

If we let this happen, the UNITED STATES (that means you and your kids) faces mass starvation.

76 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:52:06pm

re: #54 Varek Raith

I've been playing Alien Vs Predator and having Great Fun ripping off people's heads.
:P

Violent Content Warning! Alien Vs Predator 360/PS3

77 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:52:26pm

re: #67 Racer X

May I ask where you obtained this info?

Well there was a paper in Nature that I posted here three times. I made such a big deal about it at the time that YOU said I was being a broken record or some such and asked me to not keep reposting it.

78 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:53:04pm

re: #74 ausador

James Remar FTW!

NSFW.

79 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:53:28pm

re: #74 ausador

Wasn't it banned in NYC?

80 darthstar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:54:01pm

re: #74 ausador

Reposted the link to the video...I thought Luther was great, but he shouldn't have shot Cyrus.

Can you dig it?

81 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:54:29pm

re: #79 Bubblehead II

Wasn't it banned in NYC?

no that was French frys...

82 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:54:41pm

*rolls eyes*

83 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:55:02pm

re: #82 MandyManners

*rolls eyes*

At what, if I may ask?

84 darthstar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:55:12pm

re: #79 Bubblehead II

Wasn't it banned in NYC?

Originally, yes, when it came out. They were afraid it would inspire copy-cat brawls.

85 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:55:35pm

re: #77 ludwigvanquixote

Well there was a paper in Nature that I posted here three times. I made such a big deal about it at the time that YOU said I was being a broken record or some such and asked me to not keep reposting it.

You only posted it three times and expect people to remember it? Hah!

You goofy scientist types, as if average people had that kind of memory retention...

///

86 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:55:48pm

re: #57 ludwigvanquixote

Ludwig, this isn't related to currents but I thought you'd might be interested if you haven't heard of it yet.

I was listening to a science round up show on the radio the other day and they talked about another issue related to the consequences of climate change that's recently cropped up.

In a nutshell it's increased pollution migration.
I'm going from memory here so hopefully I have it right.
Basically researchers from the Canadian Dept of Fisheries started to notice increased levels of human caused pollutants in some areas in the north. Not knowing why this was occurring they looked into it.
Most people consider the north to be a fairly pristine and non polluted environment. It's not and as they pointed out that pollutants like PCBS and other heavy metals tend to migrate through the eco-systems both north and south and gets sequestered in ice and whatnot. This is a well documented phenomenon that's been occurring ever since humans started doing stuff. I remember reading once about traces of coal dust and other industrial type pollutants found up there that can be traced back to Roman times.
What they discovered was that as the ice and ecosystem up there becomes more volatile these pollutants are starting to get freed up and move around the eco-system more and moving up the food into species like fish. The scientist that was interviewed said they were surprised by this and that because it's something new they aren't sure what sort of consequences there will be nor the severity of it.

87 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:55:56pm

re: #76 Varek Raith

How about Predator vs. Pedobear?

88 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:56:09pm

re: #82 MandyManners

*rolls eyes*

What are you rolling your eyes for, Mandy? Just curious.

89 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:56:25pm

re: #82 MandyManners

BTW, did you get the you tube link for the eye roll. Figured it would save you some eye strain.

90 Kragar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:57:07pm

re: #68 brookly red

hence my distrust of authority...

My favorite computer idiot moment was the Warrant officer at supply who didn't realize their was a significant difference between CAT-5 UTP cable and the huge cable spools used for satellites and field comm equipment. We had ordered 5000 yards of UTP cable to use in rewiring the battalion and after 3 months, the warrant officer wanted it all accounted for, visually. His exact words were "I want it all here in supply so I can see it after lunch or someone is getting brought up on charges." and he wanted no excuses. I took a team down and completely unwired his buidling and placed about 100 yards of patch cables in his office at 1300. "Well here is the first batch Sir. Do you want me to bring you the COs and the rest of HQs patch cables next?" He finally understood what it was after that.

91 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:57:14pm

re: #86 Jadespring

Oops forgot to say they found the increased levels in fish in rivers.

92 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:57:40pm

re: #85 ausador

You only posted it three times and expect people to remember it? Hah!

You goofy scientist types, as if average people had that kind of memory retention...

///

Here it is again though just in case. This is the PNAS about it. I will look for the Nature paper.

[Link: www.agcarbonmarkets.com...]

93 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:57:47pm

why do i have positive karma all the sudden? this isn't right.

94 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:57:57pm

i am a creationist

95 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:58:16pm

re: #82 MandyManners

*rolls eyes*

Stop it, you'll get lint all over them.

96 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:58:23pm

re: #72 brookly red

//Denier! Racist!, Heretic! Enemy of the people! dirty stinking Republican!

LVQ is a smart guy - I'm not questioning his stance on GW. Its just that one statement stood out to me, and I'd like to learn more.

97 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:58:26pm

re: #93 SpaceJesus

why do i have positive karma all the sudden? this isn't right.

Muhahahaha! Have some more! XD

98 Kragar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:58:33pm

re: #93 SpaceJesus

why do i have positive karma all the sudden? this isn't right.

I downdinged you for old times sake SJ.

99 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:58:49pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

sad I see much of that everywhere...

100 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:59:01pm

Prime rib.

101 Gus  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:59:08pm

re: #94 SpaceJesus

i am a creationist

Lettuce prey.

/

102 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:59:22pm

re: #94 SpaceJesus

i am a creationist

I'm a Big Boomer...I don't give a shit where I came from

103 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 4:59:43pm

[crickets]

104 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:00:06pm

re: #93 SpaceJesus

Because hell froze over. quit your bitchin. :-)

105 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:00:12pm

[Xenomorphs]
?

106 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:00:23pm

re: #103 Jimmah

[crickets]

[cockroaches]

You're turn.

107 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:00:36pm

re: #94 SpaceJesus

i am a creationist

WHERE DID WE GO RIGHT?

WHERE DID WE GO RIGHT?

GIVE ME THOSE BOOKS!
FAT FAT FATTY!

GIVE ME THOSE BOOKS!

108 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:00:44pm

re: #67 Racer X

May I ask where you obtained this info?

I don't know where Ludwig found it, but I suspect like me he went to the source:

In a paper published online this week in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, North Carolina State University agricultural and resource economist Dr. Michael Roberts and Dr. Wolfram Schlenker, an assistant professor of economics at Columbia University, predict that U.S. crop yields could decrease by 30 to 46 percent over the next century under slow global warming scenarios, and by a devastating 63 to 82 percent under the most rapid global warming scenarios. The warming scenarios used in the study – called Hadley III models – were devised by the United Kingdom’s weather service.

The study shows that crop yields tick up gradually between roughly 10 and 30 degrees Celsius, or about 50 to 86 degrees Farenheit. But when temperature levels go over 29 degrees Celsius (84.2 degrees Farenheit) for corn, 30 degrees Celsius (86 degrees Farenheit) for soybeans and 32 degrees Celsius (89.6 degrees Farenheit) for cotton, yields fall steeply.

“While crop yields depend on a variety of factors, extreme heat is the best predictor of yields,” Roberts says. “There hasn’t been much research on what happens to crop yields over certain temperature thresholds, but this study shows that temperature extremes are not good.”

109 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:00:45pm

Buddy Holly is dead

110 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:00:56pm

re: #95 Slumbering Behemoth

Stop it, you'll get lint all over them.

And if one of them ends up under the fridge again, I am not helping you get it back this time.

111 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:00:57pm

re: #77 ludwigvanquixote

Well there was a paper in Nature that I posted here three times. I made such a big deal about it at the time that YOU said I was being a broken record or some such and asked me to not keep reposting it.

I did? I don't recall that.

112 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:01:07pm

re: #96 Racer X

LVQ is a smart guy - I'm not questioning his stance on GW. Its just that one statement stood out to me, and I'd like to learn more.

But of course, you did notice that I used 2 sarc tags...

( that still wasn't good enough for somebody, but hey they can bite me)

113 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:01:29pm

re: #93 SpaceJesus

why do i have positive karma all the sudden? this isn't right.

+23? OMFG what happened?

Quick say something about not worrying about global warming because your daddy will fix it!

114 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:01:46pm

re: #106 Walter L. Newton

[cockroaches]

You're turn.

We already did cockroaches - see upthread.

115 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:01:59pm

re: #53 Racer X

Correct

116 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:02:11pm

re: #109 albusteve

So is Elvis

117 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:02:15pm

The video was graphically pleasing. I mean it looked nice. The graphics were well done.

118 Achilles Tang  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:02:49pm

re: #1 Thanos

No new info for lizards, but for others this might be info they aren't aware of.

How many will be watching, including those in Congress?

This evening I ran into a very nice neighbor while we were walking our dogs, in a nastily cold breeze for, Florida. The comment I received was, "and how does this go for global warming?".

I switched the subject, based on the excuse that the dogs started humping; but what was the point of trying to explain that central Florida wasn't the center of the planet, let alone the average and perhaps we should wait and see what the hurricanes do in a few months, or years?

Once upon a time it was those who could put things in writing and had to go to the trouble of printing it and having people review it, and survived the process, that had their day and were respected for their insight.

Now anyone can publish and anyone can pick, and fund, the position that best pleases them from their center of the universe, and who has the time to sort the garbage from the gems when they have to go and walk the dogs?

119 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:03:03pm

re: #108 goddamnedfrank

I'm scared shitless...what are we gonna do?....nothing? and let those models become reality?

120 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:03:19pm

re: #116 Bubblehead II

So is Elvis

So is Generalisimo Franco.

121 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:03:40pm

re: #111 Racer X

I did? I don't recall that.

ou don't have the memory of a scientist

122 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:04:09pm

re: #116 Bubblehead II

So is Elvis

you bummer

123 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:04:33pm

re: #120 MandyManners

So is Generalisimo Franco.

/yet Marx lives on...

124 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:04:39pm

re: #119 albusteve

I'm scared shitless...what are we gonna do?...nothing? and let those models become reality?

Well, as soon as LVQ stops denying that my ship can indeed surpass the speed of light, I'm leaving the planet!
/:)

125 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:05:04pm

re: #120 MandyManners

He was a musician?

126 Kragar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:06:12pm

re: #124 Varek Raith

Well, as soon as LVQ stops denying that my ship can indeed surpass the speed of light, I'm leaving the planet!
/:)

Jump to warp space, no pesky speed of light limitations. Just make sure your Gellar fields are functioning or you get those pesky warp entities bleeding thru the walls and possessing the crew.

127 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:06:21pm

re: #92 ludwigvanquixote

Here it is again though just in case. This is the PNAS about it. I will look for the Nature paper.

[Link: www.agcarbonmarkets.com...]

Thank you.

First I have seen it.

128 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:06:26pm
Old TV sets, wiring cases and general household waste are being turned into what a Swansea-based company hopes will be the "house of the future".

Affresol has developed technology to build low carbon houses from plastic and minerals extracted from recycled rubbish.

The firm developed a material called Thermo Poly Rock (TPR) from recycled plastics and minerals for use as a structural building product.

Wyre Davies spoke to Ian McPherson from Affresol and took a tour of the house

Video :

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

129 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:06:44pm

re: #123 brookly red

/yet Marx lives on...

Sadly true.

130 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:06:55pm

re: #125 Bubblehead II

He was a musician?

Played the flute.

131 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:07:01pm

re: #125 Bubblehead II

He was a musician?

Who was Kieth Moon

132 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:08:00pm

re: #126 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I feel the Warp overtaking me. It is a good thing.

133 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:08:28pm

re: #127 Racer X

Thank you.

First I have seen it.

sadly, our grand children will never have sweet corn apparently

134 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:08:42pm

re: #118 Naso Tang

Well one of the reasons is that scientists have really been doing a poor job at communicating - picking Al Gore as spokesperson, politicizing it, and then arguing with the denialists instead of communicating the basics of the situation to the general public.

I like this approach, and maybe if they'd been doing this all along the anti-science crowd wouldn't be able to exploit public opinion on this topic so easily.

135 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:09:30pm

re: #132 Slumbering Behemoth

I feel the Warp overtaking me. It is a good thing.

That's why I use the webway.

136 Kragar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:10:13pm

re: #119 albusteve

I'm scared shitless...what are we gonna do?...nothing? and let those models become reality?

There are literally hundreds of ways the majority of life on Earth can be wiped out in a matter of minutes. Nothing we can do about them, so can't worry about it.

137 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:10:34pm

re: #135 jamesfirecat

Wimp.

138 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:10:36pm

re: #109 albusteve

Buddy Holly is dead

What?

139 Kragar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:10:57pm

re: #135 jamesfirecat

That's why I use the webway.

Eldar scum.

140 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:11:43pm

re: #139 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Eldar scum.

Foolish Mon'keigh

141 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:11:50pm

re: #126 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Jump to warp space, no pesky speed of light limitations. Just make sure your Gellar fields are functioning or you get those pesky warp entities bleeding thru the walls and possessing the crew.

I don't think her fields will ever be stable. In fact I think Charles has shown time and again they are and will continue to be very unstable.

/yeah, I know it's spelled with an E not a A. But it's such an easy target.

142 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:12:09pm

Warhammer 40K?

143 jaunte  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:12:28pm

re: #138 b_sharp

E's joined the choir invisible.

144 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:12:34pm

My guilty pleasure is my Charger. I call it the charger of the carbon offset brigade, and I drive it really fast where ever I go. The only way I feel good about is the fact that I told my boss I was working from home three years ago, and now I fill up only once per month. I use less gas on average than the guy in the Prius and I still enjoy it when I drive.

145 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:12:53pm

re: #130 MandyManners

Interesting. Just learned something new. Therefore the day hasn't been wasted.

146 Kragar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:13:05pm

re: #141 Bubblehead II

I don't think her fields will ever be stable. In fact I think Charles has shown time and again they are and will continue to be very unstable.

/yeah, I know it's spelled with an E not a A. But it's such an easy target.

STAY ON TARGET!

147 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:13:59pm

re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There are literally hundreds of ways the majority of life on Earth can be wiped out in a matter of minutes. Nothing we can do about them, so can't worry about it.

and I have my eye on all of them...ice falling off a jet plane could kill scores if it fell on Tiger Stadium during a game...holy shit!

148 webevintage  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:14:02pm

Am I the only one who thinks it is just extremely odd that Andrew Breitbart re-tweets twitter posts about himself?

149 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:14:18pm

re: #127 Racer X

Thank you.

First I have seen it.

Fair enough. But, I really really did post that paper here many many times.

The Nature paper I did not post because I could not find a non subscription version to link.

150 Kragar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:14:27pm

re: #142 Varek Raith

Warhammer 40K?

But of course.

I have to say, they've done a good job with most of the Horus Heresy books so far.

151 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:14:29pm

re: #133 albusteve

sadly, our grand children will never have sweet corn apparently

I think we can all relax a bit.

Holding current growing regions fixed, area-weighted average yields are predicted to decrease by 30 – 46% before the end of the century under the slowest (B1) warming scenario, and decrease by 63– 82% under the most rapid warming scenario (A1FI) under the Hadley III model.

152 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:14:52pm

re: #145 Bubblehead II

Interesting. Just learned something new. Therefore the day hasn't been wasted.

*psssttt*

153 webevintage  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:15:05pm

and I wanna make a super sonic man out of you!!!!

154 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:15:24pm

re: #147 albusteve

Plus 1 for the Star Wars reference.

155 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:15:27pm

re: #147 albusteve

and I have my eye on all of them...ice falling off a jet plane could kill scores if it fell on Tiger Stadium during a game...holy shit!

/well lets just hope the toilets don't malfunction...

156 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:16:20pm

re: #143 jaunte

E's joined the choir invisible.

He's just resting.

157 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:16:35pm

re: #147 albusteve

and I have my eye on all of them...ice falling off a jet plane could kill scores if it fell on Tiger Stadium during a game...holy shit!

You could run into the Raptor's Mascot

158 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:16:42pm

re: #155 brookly red

/well lets just hope the toilets don't malfunction...

What I am really worried about is the manipulation of humanity by non-human intelligences... be they alien, inter-dimensional, demonic, satanic... whatever consciousness it is, they are operating on (and in) this planet, and they look upon humankind as sheep and cattle to be herded and slaughtered at will. I don't mean this to be controversial; but we need to consider taking a serious approach to a serious issue, issues that are rarely or never reported by the mainstream media.

159 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:16:53pm

re: #149 ludwigvanquixote

Fair enough. But, I really really did post that paper here many many times.

The Nature paper I did not post because I could not find a non subscription version to link.

Are you certain it was me who said you were being a broken record and to stop posting it?

160 Kragar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:17:19pm

re: #154 Bubblehead II

Plus 1 for the Star Wars reference.

That wasn't Steve.

161 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:17:28pm

re: #148 webevintage

Am I the only one who thinks it is just extremely odd that Andrew Breitbart re-tweets twitter posts about himself?

Noticed that before on his last tweet meltdown.

162 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:17:35pm

re: #158 Walter L. Newton

Hmmm, you're a possible threat to our plans...
/

163 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:17:46pm

re: #157 Thanos

You could run into the Raptor's Mascot


[Video]

shoulda worn Air Jordans the goof

164 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:17:49pm

re: #158 Walter L. Newton

What I am really worried about is the manipulation of humanity by non-human intelligences... be they alien, inter-dimensional, demonic, satanic... whatever consciousness it is, they are operating on (and in) this planet, and they look upon humankind as sheep and cattle to be herded and slaughtered at will. I don't mean this to be controversial; but we need to consider taking a serious approach to a serious issue, issues that are rarely or never reported by the mainstream media.

elections have consequences ...

165 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:18:13pm

Anyone else watching the hockey game?

166 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:18:18pm

re: #162 Varek Raith

Hmmm, you're a possible threat to our plans...
/

Holy shit... YOU! I never saw that comin....

167 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:18:56pm

re: #165 Jadespring

Anyone else watching the hockey game?

What's the score?

168 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:19:04pm

Have to pee? There's an app for that.

No shit.

169 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:19:28pm

re: #166 Walter L. Newton

Holy shit... YOU! I never saw that comin...

Aww, dammit, I outed myself...

170 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:19:37pm

re: #167 b_sharp

What's the score?

2-0 for Canada

171 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:19:45pm

re: #160 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That wasn't Steve.

I have no clue, I'm no Star Wars geektoid, but I did like Jabba the Hut

172 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:20:45pm

Actually I am going to post this paper one more time.

I beg everyone here to consider the basic consequences of what it is saying.

[Link: www.agcarbonmarkets.com...]

The United States produces 41% of the world’s corn and 38% of the world’s soybeans. These crops comprise two of the four largest
sources of caloric energy produced and are thus critical for world
food supply. We pair a panel of county-level yields for these two
crops, plus cotton (a warmer-weather crop), with a new fine-scale
weather dataset that incorporates the whole distribution of temperatures
within each day and across all days in the growing
season. We find that yields increase with temperature up to 29° C
for corn, 30° C for soybeans, and 32° C for cotton but that temperatures
above these thresholds are very harmful. The slope of
the decline above the optimum is significantly steeper than the
incline below it.
The same nonlinear and asymmetric relationship
is found when we isolate either time-series or cross-sectional
variations in temperatures and yields. This suggests limited historical adaptation of seed varieties or management practices to
warmer temperatures because the cross-section includes farmers’
adaptations to warmer climates and the time-series does not.

Holding current growing regions fixed, area-weighted average
yields are predicted to decrease by 30–46% before the end of the
century under the slowest (B1) warming scenario and decrease by
63–82% under the most rapid warming scenario (A1FI) under the
Hadley III model.

So under the slowest models we are looking at 30-46% reduction in crops just from temperature - and that does not include the associated lack of rainfall.

The full blown worst case scenario - i.e. we pass a tipping point with the methane bogs in Siberia and Canada (which is possible and in any case we are currently marching towards) we are looking at up to 90% reduction in our food supply - in America.

So again, for those who are economically minded, what happens to the economy when things like bread eggs and milk cost much more than ten times what they do now and we have mass starvation and food riots in America?

173 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:20:47pm

re: #165 Jadespring

Anyone else watching the hockey game?

no, this is a Breitbart thread

174 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:20:52pm

re: #145 Bubblehead II

Interesting. Just learned something new. Therefore the day hasn't been wasted.

I was joshing.

175 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:20:53pm

re: #169 Varek Raith

Aww, dammit, I outed myself...

Just hold the pen up to your webcam.

176 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:20:59pm

re: #160 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Then he got a free upding. You got one as well. :-)

177 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:21:06pm

You cannot exist outside of the holodeck, you have to accept that, your only a construct of light and energy.

/Dead? what is that?

178 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:21:23pm

re: #169 Varek Raith

Aww, dammit, I outed myself...

Felix, the boss want's to speak with you...

179 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:22:03pm

re: #159 Racer X

Are you certain it was me who said you were being a broken record and to stop posting it?

In retrospect no. I do recall you complaining about it.

I also recall it being called hysterical hyperbole by a certain poster here who likes to call things published in the Proceedings of the National Academy, "hysterical hyperbole."

180 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:23:07pm

re: #170 Jadespring

2-0 for Canada

Way to go ladies. Go Wickenheiser.

181 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:23:14pm

re: #178 brookly red

Felix, the boss want's to speak with you...

... about your new assignment, at Sea World.

182 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:24:34pm

re: #172 ludwigvanquixote

Actually I am going to post this paper one more time.

I beg everyone here to consider the basic consequences of what it is saying.

[Link: www.agcarbonmarkets.com...]

So under the slowest models we are looking at 30-46% reduction in crops just from temperature - and that does not include the associated lack of rainfall.

The full blown worst case scenario - i.e. we pass a tipping point with the methane bogs in Siberia and Canada (which is possible and in any case we are currently marching towards) we are looking at up to 90% reduction in our food supply - in America.

So again, for those who are economically minded, what happens to the economy when things like bread eggs and milk cost much more than ten times what they do now and we have mass starvation and food riots in America?

If you want to grow corn in Canada, the other grains will have to move north meaning trees will have to come down.

183 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:24:53pm
184 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:25:11pm

re: #93 SpaceJesus

Didn't I warn you in October that it would happen because you went on that mission from dog?

BTW, I may need your help again in a couple weeks.

185 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:25:40pm

re: #182 b_sharp

If you want to grow corn in Canada, the other grains will have to move north meaning trees will have to come down.

we'll eat the trees...a twofer

186 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:25:48pm

re: #182 b_sharp

If you want to grow corn in Canada, the other grains will have to move north meaning trees will have to come down.

/they were coming down anyway... where did you think the TARP money came from?

187 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:26:12pm

re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There are literally hundreds of ways the majority of life on Earth can be wiped out in a matter of minutes. Nothing we can do about them, so can't worry about it.

There's a difference between blithely marching into a long slow self-induced ecological disaster, and being uncomfortably close to a supernova. We call that difference human culpability.

188 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:26:17pm

re: #179 ludwigvanquixote

In retrospect no. I do recall you complaining about it.

I also recall it being called hysterical hyperbole by a certain poster here who likes to call things published in the Proceedings of the National Academy, "hysterical hyperbole."

Ah-HA! So your data sets were wrong!

I'm just fucking with you man. We're all just dots on a page and I guess we all look alike. Its all good. Interesting info. The future looks bleak.

189 darthstar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:26:20pm

Rush Limbaugh, unable to find someone his own size to pick on, goes after President Obama's children.

In short, the fat fuck calls the kids fat and claims it's what Michelle said about her own two children.

Now, why, since Obama just described this wonderful system where his two daughters -- two fat daughters, according to his wife -- his two fat daughters came down with some sort of a disease and had to rush them to the emergency room, why design a system that destroys the very best private health care that he says he's so thankful for?

Paging Sarah Palin...satire defense needed on aisle 5. We all know how you hate when people attack children.

190 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:26:37pm

re: #185 albusteve

we'll eat the trees...a twofer

Yummm...bark.

191 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:27:27pm

re: #189 darthstar

Rush Limbaugh, unable to find someone his own size to pick on, goes after President Obama's children.

In short, the fat fuck calls the kids fat and claims it's what Michelle said about her own two children.


Paging Sarah Palin...satire defense needed on aisle 5. We all know how you hate when people attack children.

He's lower than whale shit.

192 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:27:40pm

re: #189 darthstar

Rush Limbaugh, unable to find someone his own size to pick on, goes after President Obama's children.

In short, the fat fuck calls the kids fat and claims it's what Michelle said about her own two children.

Paging Sarah Palin...satire defense needed on aisle 5. We all know how you hate when people attack children.

outta context, again.

193 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:28:02pm

re: #182 b_sharp

If you want to grow corn in Canada, the other grains will have to move north meaning trees will have to come down.

The main problem with that scenario is the soil. Just moving north and cutting down the trees doesn't mean you end up with soil conditions that are great for growing grain.

194 darthstar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:28:05pm

re: #192 brookly red

Me or Rush?

195 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:28:13pm

re: #174 MandyManners

So he didn't play the flute. Still learned something new.

Can I have my leg back now? :-)

196 webevintage  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:28:24pm

re: #192 brookly red

outta context, again.

He was just doing satire, right?
/

197 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:28:49pm

re: #187 goddamnedfrank

There's a difference between blithely marching into a long slow self-induced ecological disaster, and being uncomfortably close to a supernova. We call that difference human culpability.

as for GW it's a done deal...humans can do little to slow it down, let alone reverse it

198 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:28:53pm

re: #194 darthstar

Me or Rush?

you... he was speaking about the health care system.

199 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:30:47pm

re: #189 darthstar

Rush Limbaugh, unable to find someone his own size to pick on, goes after President Obama's children.

In short, the fat fuck calls the kids fat and claims it's what Michelle said about her own two children.

Paging Sarah Palin...satire defense needed on aisle 5. We all know how you hate when people attack children.

I seem to remember a thread here yesterday where some people were making fun of a politicians size. Didn't seem to bother anyone then?

200 darthstar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:30:47pm

re: #198 brookly red

you... he was speaking about the health care system.

Bullshit. Rush was just bloviating and trying to see how much offensive shit he could say about the first family before someone noticed. It's what he always does. That man doesn't have a sincere bone in his body, and you know it.

201 darthstar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:31:02pm

re: #199 Walter L. Newton

I seem to remember a thread here yesterday where some people were making fun of a politicians size. Didn't seem to bother anyone then?

Was the politician 12 years old?

202 jaunte  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:31:03pm

re: #172 ludwigvanquixote

Given that time line, it seems like our priority should be a kind of Manhattan Project to develop hardier crops.

203 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:31:14pm

re: #197 albusteve

as for GW it's a done deal...humans can do little to slow it down, let alone reverse it

We might be able to make the difference between a disaster and a really big disaster. (We probably won't, because the issue isn't science, it's politics.)

204 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:31:16pm

re: #172 ludwigvanquixote

Actually I am going to post this paper one more time.

I beg everyone here to consider the basic consequences of what it is saying.

[Link: www.agcarbonmarkets.com...]

So under the slowest models we are looking at 30-46% reduction in crops just from temperature - and that does not include the associated lack of rainfall.

The full blown worst case scenario - i.e. we pass a tipping point with the methane bogs in Siberia and Canada (which is possible and in any case we are currently marching towards) we are looking at up to 90% reduction in our food supply - in America.

So again, for those who are economically minded, what happens to the economy when things like bread eggs and milk cost much more than ten times what they do now and we have mass starvation and food riots in America?

These are some of the best arguments you can make. Show people how it's going to hurt their wallet.

205 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:31:17pm

re: #193 Jadespring

The main problem with that scenario is the soil. Just moving north and cutting down the trees doesn't mean you end up with soil conditions that are great for growing grain.

maybe we can learn to harvest algae, seaweed...that sort of thing....looks like corn is a gonner

206 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:31:40pm

re: #198 brookly red

you... he was speaking about the health care system.

Explain.

LIMBAUGH: Any person in America, from the richest guy in the country to the cheapest, poorest illegal immigrant can do exactly the same thing Obama just described and that's go to the emergency room. And Tom Coburn made that point. Everybody gets treated in this country. That's not what we're here talking about. We're talking about fraud, waste -- we just need to get it out of there.

Now, why, since Obama just described this wonderful system where his two daughters -- two fat daughters, according to his wife -- his two fat daughters came down with some sort of a disease and had to rush them to the emergency room, why design a system that destroys the very best private health care that he says he's so thankful for?

207 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:31:56pm

re: #201 darthstar

Was the politician 12 years old?

No... but I don't think anyone should be made fun of because of their size... or looks... or color... or [fill in the blank]...

208 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:32:38pm

re: #195 Bubblehead II

So he didn't play the flute. Still learned something new.

Can I have my leg back now? :-)

I lost it.

209 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:32:41pm

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

No... but I don't think anyone should be made fun of because of their size... or looks... or color... or [fill in the blank]...

Completely agree, it's petty, unproductive and just plain rude.

210 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:33:07pm

re: #199 Walter L. Newton

I seem to remember a thread here yesterday where some people were making fun of a politicians size. Didn't seem to bother anyone then?

It bothered me.

211 darthstar  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:33:08pm

Okay folks...gotta run. Meeting friends for dinner and I need to hit the pet food store on my way to get treats for my dogs, as they're having a spa weekend.

Play nice.

212 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:33:16pm

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

No... but I don't think anyone should be made fun of because of their size... or looks... or color... or [fill in the blank]...

I do think people should be made fun of for their stupidity!

213 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:33:46pm

re: #202 jaunte

Given that time line, it seems like our priority should be a kind of Manhattan Project to develop hardier crops.

People already are. The issue still comes down to biological one though. There are limits biologically to just how far a plant can be pushed regardless of the tech involved.

214 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:33:58pm

let's fight over what Rush Limbaugh said today....to hell with the economy!...AmIdol politics rules!

215 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:34:05pm

re: #212 jamesfirecat

I do think people should be made fun of for their stupidity!

Not really, just for willful ignorance.

216 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:34:14pm

re: #200 darthstar

Bullshit. Rush was just bloviating and trying to see how much offensive shit he could say about the first family before someone noticed. It's what he always does. That man doesn't have a sincere bone in his body, and you know it.

Obama told a story about how he needed to take his daughters to the emergency room, and then commented on how it concerned him about his health care coverage. Rush pointed out that emergency room care is denied to no one. Get over it.

217 Ojoe  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:34:14pm

Sunset on the San Gabriel Mountains of California. The Towercam, Pacific time zone.

And sunset on another day of an ineffective presidency.

218 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:35:30pm

re: #183 albusteve

it's not the publications that are hysterical, it's the people that post them imo, but I'm a AGW bystander...bring it on

Ahhh.. So I really do hope you will someday keep your word and not talk to me.

However, this time, I shall point a few things out.

The publications, which you do not question (here at least), are claiming massive loss of coastline (including most of our major cities, places like NY and Boston etc...) Complete loss of melt water in the American SW, leaving entire states like Az, NM, Colorado etc without fresh water, and oh yes, and overall reduction of food production by over 60% (in the mid range predictions).

In other words, the science which you claim to believe, in other words is predicting. Millions of Americans without homes, millions without water (not without water to bath, but without water to drink, i.e. move or die), and all of us with vastly less food.

That is what the science, which you are currently claiming you do not dispute predicts.

Yet you have the chutzpah to claim that saying this will be an utter catastrophe for America is some how hysterical.

What the hell is wrong with you?

219 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:36:02pm

re: #212 jamesfirecat

I do think people should be made fun of for their stupidity!

but when I do that to you, you get all pissy...so what's the point?

220 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:36:02pm

re: #216 brookly red

Obama told a story about how he needed to take his daughters to the emergency room, and then commented on how it concerned him about his health care coverage. Rush pointed out that emergency room care is denied to no one. Get over it.

Didn't Rush also imply that if Obama had his way people would be denied ER care?

That's not part of any plan I've seen anyone put forward....

221 stevemcg  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:36:27pm

re: #211 darthstar

Don't mix up the dinner food and the pet food.

222 Gus  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:36:36pm

re: #209 Varek Raith

Completely agree, it's petty, unproductive and just plain rude.

It is. However, the reality is that no one was making fun out of J. D. Hayworth's weight. That's a complete fabrication.

223 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:36:40pm

re: #179 ludwigvanquixote

In retrospect no. I do recall you complaining about it.

I also recall it being called hysterical hyperbole by a certain poster here who likes to call things published in the Proceedings of the National Academy, "hysterical hyperbole."

While we watch wild swings in "normal" weather patterns going on all around the globe. While we see rainfall patterns shift, a great leap in desertification in asia and australia, still people deny that anything has changed.

You can't change that, they are not going to believe, not until they are forced to by circumstances. Not until it affects them personally and painfully. AGW is just bunk, and even if it is real it only means a minor rise in sea level since that is the only change the press has focused on. Nothing about species shifts, crop patterns, ocean currents, nope, those are never to be brought up. You might panic people if you told them the truth.

Too bad, they need to be worried, they need to be scared, they need to see that our future is extremely grim unless we gain control of this progression.

Sigh...

224 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:36:46pm

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

No... but I don't think anyone should be made fun of because of their size... or looks... or color... or [fill in the blank]...

I agree, but only up to a certain point.

225 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:37:50pm

re: #204 Thanos

These are some of the best arguments you can make. Show people how it's going to hurt their wallet.

This appalls me, largely because people should be thinking how it will hurt their ability to eat enough, have enough water to livem or have a place to sleep.

Food water and shelter are the most basic of all possible things.

I suppose that Americans are so spoiled and have had it so good for so long, that the idea of most of America without these things is just not something they can compute.

226 Ojoe  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:38:08pm

re: #223 ausador

People ignore dire predictions, but they respond to proposed actions that seem doable and effective.

BBL

227 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:38:27pm

re: #205 albusteve

maybe we can learn to harvest algae, seaweed...that sort of thing...looks like corn is a gonner

Nah corn is not a goner. The corn itself will be fine and continue to be grown where conditions meet what it needs.

What will be a goner is the economy that's based on corn and considering that currently is a foundational pillar in both the food and industrial system in a place like the US then you're talking major instability. Corn is much more then just a food in the current economy.

228 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:38:29pm

re: #220 jamesfirecat

Didn't Rush also imply that if Obama had his way people would be denied ER care?

That's not part of any plan I've seen anyone put forward...

No, he stated that in America all, including illegals, were entitled to emergency care regardless of their ability to pay...

lose the hate.

229 jaunte  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:38:35pm

re: #213 Jadespring

People already are. The issue still comes down to biological one though. There are limits biologically to just how far a plant can be pushed regardless of the tech involved.

Sure, I'm just thinking that the possibility of stopping AGW within a hundred years by halting enough anthropogenic emissions is lower than the possibility of adapting our food supply for survival's sake.

230 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:38:41pm

re: #208 MandyManners

YOU WHAT! I will have you know that that leg was made with finest materials available to mankind. How could you be so irresponsible as to misplace such a valuable item? I'm socked I tell ya.

231 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:39:38pm

re: #225 ludwigvanquixote

This appalls me, largely because people should be thinking how it will hurt their ability to eat enough, have enough water to livem or have a place to sleep.

Food water and shelter are the most basic of all possible things.

I suppose that Americans are so spoiled and have had it so good for so long, that the idea of most of America without these things is just not something they can compute.

Me too, but it's what works Ludwig. People have bias - and penalty / reward plays a big part towards most of those built in biases. It's a product of our social evolution, use it to your benefit. Personalize the problem towards a person's own wallet and you will get a lot more people on board.

232 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:40:03pm

re: #226 Ojoe

People ignore dire predictions, but they respond to proposed actions that seem doable and effective. until it bites us in the ass, then we run around screaming like fools.

BBL


;)

233 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:40:18pm

re: #230 Bubblehead II

YOU WHAT! I will have you know that that leg was made with finest materials available to mankind. How could you be so irresponsible as to misplace such a valuable item? I'm socked I tell ya.

Maybe it's in the Lost and Found office.

234 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:40:40pm

re: #214 albusteve

let's fight over what Rush Limbaugh said today...to hell with the economy!...AmIdol politics rules!

We're not fighting. We're mostly agreeing that Rush is dishonorable slimeball. Michelle Obama talks about how she's trying to help keep her kids healthy and Rush uses this to attack her. It's another "No Obama can do any right, they are wrong and EVIL!!1" type of attack.

235 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:41:12pm

re: #223 ausador

While we watch wild swings in "normal" weather patterns going on all around the globe. While we see rainfall patterns shift, a great leap in desertification in asia and australia, still people deny that anything has changed.

You can't change that, they are not going to believe, not until they are forced to by circumstances. Not until it affects them personally and painfully. AGW is just bunk, and even if it is real it only means a minor rise in sea level since that is the only change the press has focused on. Nothing about species shifts, crop patterns, ocean currents, nope, those are never to be brought up. You might panic people if you told them the truth.

Too bad, they need to be worried, they need to be scared, they need to see that our future is extremely grim unless we gain control of this progression.

Sigh...

Honestly if people took the time to think for half a minute about what the science is saying, they would realize that the sane response is to be scared green.

Again, no food, no water, no shelter.

Hungry desperate people with guns and nothing to lose.

Add it up.

It really is the end of America as we know it. OF course the global calamity will be just as bad.

There will be no moving to Canada to grow crops. They will fight us for them.

236 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:41:27pm

If someone added up what extra $$$$$$$$$$ people will spend in the US SW to cool their homes in the next decade a lot of jaws would drop.

237 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:41:38pm
238 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:42:40pm

re: #237 albusteve

I never said I wouldn't talk to you...you made that up...it was in fact the other way around...there is nothing wrong with me...you have posted the same disaster scenarios over and over, presumably to enlighten us fools...so what?...what does it all mean?...there is little to be done about it and in any case we get your point...we are not govts...we are not industry...we are just posters that will not have a nickels worth of difference, just like you...but keep posting your disasters if it makes you feel smarter than me

How about working to stop the disaster, Steve?

239 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:42:44pm

re: #225 ludwigvanquixote

This appalls me, largely because people should be thinking how it will hurt their ability to eat enough, have enough water to livem or have a place to sleep.

Food water and shelter are the most basic of all possible things.

I suppose that Americans are so spoiled and have had it so good for so long, that the idea of most of America without these things is just not something they can compute.

Strangely, we have one ace in the hole--our wastefulness. When scarcity forces accurate re-evaluation of resources, when water goes to ten dollars a gallon, we'll get religious about their use. Could buy us some time.

240 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:42:55pm

re: #193 Jadespring

The main problem with that scenario is the soil. Just moving north and cutting down the trees doesn't mean you end up with soil conditions that are great for growing grain.

True, but the way it is here in southern Sask there isn't much of a tree line, there are trees in clumps in areas where grain is grown and as you travel north the clumps get larger. You have to get north of Prince Albert to find thick forest where grasses don't do well. The biggest limit to growing grain here is the weather, rather than the soil. Besides, we produce more potash than you can shake a truck full of dead cats at so soils can be conditioned relatively easily.

As the globe warms, we're going to have to move north anyway, the south west portion of the province is prone to drought and the southeast is prone to floods. Both conditions will increase and move north.

The problem with losing large chunks of forest, aside from losing a carbon sink, is the disruption of wind patterns and water erosion patterns. Without the trees, because the root systems of wheat and other grains are shallow, during fallow times the top soil will either blow away or wash away.

241 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:43:08pm

Corn is bad for you anyway. It makes you fat.

242 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:43:19pm

People are already spending a lot more than they should just from the 1.5 degree raise so far.

243 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:43:23pm

re: #236 Thanos

If someone added up what extra $$$ people will spend in the US SW to cool their homes in the next decade a lot of jaws would drop.

And that's another reason to install solar panels down there.

BBL

244 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:43:32pm

re: #225 ludwigvanquixote

This appalls me, largely because people should be thinking how it will hurt their ability to eat enough, have enough water to livem or have a place to sleep.

Food water and shelter are the most basic of all possible things.

I suppose that Americans are so spoiled and have had it so good for so long, that the idea of most of America without these things is just not something they can compute.

so much drama...do you have any advice for albusteve on how to avoid these catastrophic certainties?

245 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:44:24pm

Now crickets, crickets are yummy and a great source of protein.

Mmm, crickets.

246 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:44:30pm

re: #233 MandyManners

Well dinner has arrived so I have to go eat. I fully expect you to check L&F and see if it is there. I want my leg back. I will check back with you on the LNDT tomorrow. I expect results lady. :-)

Night All.

247 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:44:39pm

*picks spiny legs from my teeth*

248 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:45:08pm

re: #236 Thanos

If someone added up what extra $$$ people will spend in the US SW to cool their homes in the next decade a lot of jaws would drop.

If a place is to hot for you to live in perhaps conquering it was not such a good idea?

249 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:45:09pm

re: #237 albusteve

And yet another shift from a confirmed troll.

If you wish to deny what an unutterable pain in the ass you are about this go ahead. You however, fool no one.

Consider how you were just now calling me hysterical. When beaten down by the science, you shift to "it doesn't matter."

Well Jack ass, it does matter.

If enough people take this seriously soon enough we can agitate for real changes and avoid the problem.

We have the technology and it would even be economically beneficial to switch away from fossil fuels in its own right without considering AGW.

Yet, not only do scientists like me have to contend with entrenched politicians and moneyed lobbies, we have to contend with assholes like you in the public.

250 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:45:48pm

re: #238 Dark_Falcon

How about working to stop the disaster, Steve?

yeah I'm a real Disaster Buster...what about you? what are you doing to avert disaster? we should all work together right? do we have a chance to avoid disaster?

251 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:46:51pm

re: #241 Racer X

Corn is bad for you anyway. It makes you fat.

it's the stupidest agricultural investment there is...even worse when you grow it for ethenol

252 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:46:54pm

re: #239 Decatur Deb

Strangely, we have one ace in the hole--our wastefulness. When scarcity forces accurate re-evaluation of resources, when water goes to ten dollars a gallon, we'll get religious about their use. Could buy us some time.

Nope, that is the whole point of tipping points. By the time that happens we are committed. It will be too late. We get real now and start taking serious action in the next decade or nothing will stop the things I am talking about and nothing will fix it.

253 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:47:20pm

re: #248 brookly red

If a place is to hot for you to live in perhaps conquering it was not such a good idea?

You are talking to someone who used to live in Fairbanks Ak. My house was well insulated, the home here in Kansas is not. It costs more to heat here than the house built with 2X6's instead of 2X4's in AK did and the climate is much harsher there.

254 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:48:00pm

re: #250 albusteve

yeah I'm a real Disaster Buster...what about you? what are you doing to avert disaster? we should all work together right? do we have a chance to avoid disaster?

You are about one three-hundred millionth of the local solution. Maybe more.

255 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:49:15pm

re: #228 brookly red

No, he stated that in America all, including illegals, were entitled to emergency care regardless of their ability to pay...

lose the hate.

And yet he describes it as "private healthcare"

"why design a system that destroys the very best private health care that he says he's so thankful for?"

How is the ER "Private Helathcare" if its given to everyone regardless of if they can pay or not?

256 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:49:31pm

re: #250 albusteve

yeah I'm a real Disaster Buster...what about you? what are you doing to avert disaster? we should all work together right? do we have a chance to avoid disaster?

I do not own a car, have a TV cable or otherwise, eat meat or fly except when required to by my employer... anyone else who does not meet these standards need not lecture me on responsibility, now or ever.

257 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:49:37pm

re: #244 albusteve

so much drama...do you have any advice for albusteve on how to avoid these catastrophic certainties?

Well step one would be to stop using such sarcastic tones and take this seriously. If you get real about it, you could, start to do the sensible things.

You could agitate for electric vehicles and nuclear power. You could support solar and wind and smart grids. You could tell your representatives and the dude in the coffee shop so he does too.

You can recycle.

You can turn out lights that you are not using.

You can buy less shit from sweat shops.

You can actually make a difference.

But that would require you getting real and not being such an asshole all the time.

258 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:49:42pm
259 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:49:48pm

re: #252 ludwigvanquixote

Nope, that is the whole point of tipping points. By the time that happens we are committed. It will be too late. We get real now and start taking serious action in the next decade or nothing will stop the things I am talking about and nothing will fix it.

Honest question now... I remember (I believe I remember) that you studied chaos theory and such areas, but now in your employment you deal with [fill in blank]. Just curious, I know you have mentioned it before, but I really forgot.

260 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:51:28pm

re: #255 jamesfirecat

And yet he describes it as "private healthcare"

"why design a system that destroys the very best private health care that he says he's so thankful for?"

How is the ER "Private Helathcare" if its given to everyone regardless of if they can pay or not?

exactly, the system is already providing to everyone... so what more do you want?

261 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:51:34pm

re: #252 ludwigvanquixote

Nope, that is the whole point of tipping points. By the time that happens we are committed. It will be too late. We get real now and start taking serious action in the next decade or nothing will stop the things I am talking about and nothing will fix it.

I'm not optimistic for short-term action. I don't remember masses of humans voluntarily doing anything painful for long-term gain. We have to feel the painful alternative first.

262 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:51:57pm

re: #259 Walter L. Newton

Honest question now... I remember (I believe I remember) that you studied chaos theory and such areas, but now in your employment you deal with [fill in blank]. Just curious, I know you have mentioned it before, but I really forgot.

I do chaos and non-linear dynamics. I specifically work on turbulence theory and fluid mechanics at the moment. All that talk about jet streams and currents.... I have direct knowledge of.

263 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:52:26pm

re: #240 b_sharp

True, but the way it is here in southern Sask there isn't much of a tree line, there are trees in clumps in areas where grain is grown and as you travel north the clumps get larger. You have to get north of Prince Albert to find thick forest where grasses don't do well. The biggest limit to growing grain here is the weather, rather than the soil. Besides, we produce more potash than you can shake a truck full of dead cats at so soils can be conditioned relatively easily.

As the globe warms, we're going to have to move north anyway, the south west portion of the province is prone to drought and the southeast is prone to floods. Both conditions will increase and move north.

The problem with losing large chunks of forest, aside from losing a carbon sink, is the disruption of wind patterns and water erosion patterns. Without the trees, because the root systems of wheat and other grains are shallow, during fallow times the top soil will either blow away or wash away.

It's still not a simple solution and there are no guarentees as you point out cutting down huge swaths of forest can bring on other issues as well there is just no guarantee that the weather patterns themselves will be conducive to growing crops at the same levels as before. Canada I think at least from models and predictions I've seen is however in a better position in terms of options and possibilities because at least we do have large swaths of the north to move into but it's not something I particularly would particularly count on.

264 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:53:12pm

re: #260 brookly red

exactly, the system is already providing to everyone... so what more do you want?

Umm....

So you're saying that the ER alone can solve every medical problem anyone might have?

265 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:53:25pm

re: #260 brookly red

exactly, the system is already providing to everyone... so what more do you want?

Ugh.

266 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:53:42pm

re: #249 ludwigvanquixote

And yet another shift from a confirmed troll.

If you wish to deny what an unutterable pain in the ass you are about this go ahead. You however, fool no one.

Consider how you were just now calling me hysterical. When beaten down by the science, you shift to "it doesn't matter."

Well Jack ass, it does matter.

If enough people take this seriously soon enough we can agitate for real changes and avoid the problem.

We have the technology and it would even be economically beneficial to switch away from fossil fuels in its own right without considering AGW.

Yet, not only do scientists like me have to contend with entrenched politicians and moneyed lobbies, we have to contend with assholes like you in the public.

I'm not beaten down, and it's not your science...you are a mouthpiece...I lve in the SW...I do not cool my house and barely heat it in the winter....my car gets almost 40mpg and I rarely use it....I use very little water, most New Mexicans are way ahead of you water wasters, wherever you are....I'd bet I do more than you to slow the AGW while you strut your plumage on some blog....you should be in the sociology business where you might do more good up in the urban areas where waste is rampant...your preaching to me falls on deaf ears...I'm doing more than you regardless of your tripe

267 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:53:51pm

re: #260 brookly red

exactly, the system is already providing to everyone... so what more do you want?

If it's providing to everyone, why do I hear of people being driven to bankruptcy by medical bills?

268 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:54:47pm

re: #261 Decatur Deb

I'm not optimistic for short-term action. I don't remember masses of humans voluntarily doing anything painful for long-term gain. We have to feel the painful alternative first.

Then we can can pray that it get bad enough soon enough that we act, but not so bad that we cross a tipping point. It is a hard fight for certain.

However, the alternative of throwing up our hands now is the certainty of the collapse of our civilization as we know it and billions of deaths.

When the choice is between a long shot and that, the long shot looks good.

In fact, it is the only shot we have.

I was commenting to a colleague that the fate of the world hangs on the next American election.

The GOP has a part of their plank that they will do nothing about this. The Dems may still be swayed.

If the GOP wins, America falls to AGW.

269 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:54:55pm

re: #262 ludwigvanquixote

I do chaos and non-linear dynamics. I specifically work on turbulence theory and fluid mechanics at the moment. All that talk about jet streams and currents... I have direct knowledge of.

Thanks.

270 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:56:23pm

re: #268 ludwigvanquixote

Then we can can pray that it get bad enough soon enough that we act, but not so bad that we cross a tipping point. It is a hard fight for certain.

However, the alternative of throwing up our hands now is the certainty of the collapse of our civilization as we know it and billions of deaths.

When the choice is between a long shot and that, the long shot looks good.

In fact, it is the only shot we have.

I was commenting to a colleague that the fate of the world hangs on the next American election.

The GOP has a part of their plank that they will do nothing about this. The Dems may still be swayed.

If the GOP wins, America falls to AGW.

Well we can draw a little hope from the fact that we're running an incumbent and they have at the moment f*** all in the way of people to run against him give or take Mitt Romney...

271 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:56:27pm

Oh and I have to do this.

Canada beats the US to win gold!!!

272 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:56:58pm

re: #257 ludwigvanquixote

Well step one would be to stop using such sarcastic tones and take this seriously. If you get real about it, you could, start to do the sensible things.

You could agitate for electric vehicles and nuclear power. You could support solar and wind and smart grids. You could tell your representatives and the dude in the coffee shop so he does too.

You can recycle.

You can turn out lights that you are not using.

You can buy less shit from sweat shops.

You can actually make a difference.

But that would require you getting real and not being such an asshole all the time.

don't be such a naive doofus....I'm only an asshole to you because I get tired of your juvenile crisis scenarios, when in fact you are a greater cause of it than me, and I've never been impressed with your shit

273 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:57:17pm

re: #245 Racer X

Now crickets, crickets are yummy and a great source of protein.

Mmm, crickets.

Just watch out for the wings, they can be difficult to remove from between your teeth.

274 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:57:28pm

Top NY Official Resigns in Wake of Allegations

And Paterson is done.

I predict Change.

275 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:57:46pm

re: #267 b_sharp

If it's providing to everyone, why do I hear of people being driven to bankruptcy by medical bills?

I pray that neither you nor I get sick... if I do I have health insurance. I purchased it instead of a car. We all make our own choices.

276 Ojoe  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:58:20pm

re: #248 brookly red

What you do is, build massive adobe buildings that moderate the daily temperature swings to a pleasant average; not everything is so dire as some think.

BBL

277 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:58:59pm

re: #266 albusteve

No what you do is snipe at the science every chance you get. Do we really need to drag up your posts? Do we really need to drag up all the denialist crap you go and spew?

Yes, yes I get that you don't like me. Iget that it makes you feel like something special to try to take the physicist down a peg. Populist "self edumicated, mountain man types like you always think you are smarter than us scientists anyway. It's all plumage after all... And it is yet another attempt to insult me and ignore the science.

NO step one for you to learn to shut the fuck up.

Ste two is to use that silence to learn the science.

278 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:59:07pm

re: #263 Jadespring

It's still not a simple solution and there are no guarentees as you point out cutting down huge swaths of forest can bring on other issues as well there is just no guarantee that the weather patterns themselves will be conducive to growing crops at the same levels as before. Canada I think at least from models and predictions I've seen is however in a better position in terms of options and possibilities because at least we do have large swaths of the north to move into but it's not something I particularly would particularly count on.

Half of Sask's population lives in areas where climate change is going to make life difficult. We'll all have to move north where there is much less land but much more water, now. I hate to think of what will happen when those lakes dry up.

Manitoba, Ontario and Quebec have even less arable land in the north because of the shield. It ain't going to be good.

279 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:59:29pm

re: #274 Racer X

Top NY Official Resigns in Wake of Allegations

And Paterson is done.

I predict Change.

Can't come soon enough; NY State needs adults in charge.

280 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:00:01pm

re: #275 brookly red

I pray that neither you nor I get sick... if I do I have health insurance. I purchased it instead of a car. We all make our own choices.

Not a fair comparison to a person who doesn't live in a place with massive public transpo. Wish I could ditch the car and the driving.

281 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:00:05pm

re: #279 Surabaya Stew

Can't come soon enough; NY State needs adults in charge.

The whole country does.

282 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:00:52pm

re: #280 Stanley Sea

Not a fair comparison to a person who doesn't live in a place with massive public transpo. Wish I could ditch the car and the driving.

Yeah and he sort of made our point for us. He just highlighted exactly what I want, no one in the US should have to choose between a car and health insurance.

283 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:01:04pm

re: #280 Stanley Sea

Not a fair comparison to a person who doesn't live in a place with massive public transpo. Wish I could ditch the car and the driving.

move. we all make our own choices.

284 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:02:05pm

re: #283 brookly red

move. we all make our own choices.

I'll have to repeat myself then, ugh.

285 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:02:24pm

re: #272 albusteve

don't be such a naive doofus...I'm only an asshole to you because I get tired of your juvenile crisis scenarios, when in fact you are a greater cause of it than me, and I've never been impressed with your shit

My "juvenile crisis scenarios" are those predicted by the science community which I am in. They are backed by the data and the evidence.

You claim not to dispute the science.

The science is clearly saying we have a crisis.

Yet, you call that juvenile and dismiss it and claim you are not a denier or a troll.

Do you really think that others on this blog are that stupid? Do you really think you fool anyone?

You are a troll. At least have the sense to lay in the bed you made.

286 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:03:18pm

re: #268 ludwigvanquixote

Then we can can pray that it get bad enough soon enough that we act, but not so bad that we cross a tipping point. It is a hard fight for certain.

You are almost describing a "moment of optimal deterioration". Can't tell how long till that. There is always the fond hope of a massive clean energy breakthrough or other technological save. We seem politically primitive, but fairly good with slide rules. I think the answer is more likely to come from a lab than a conference hall.

287 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:03:21pm

I was gonna type something out about remaining civil, but I fear I'm wasting my fingertips.

288 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:03:35pm

re: #282 jamesfirecat

Yeah and he sort of made our point for us. He just highlighted exactly what I want, no one in the US should have to choose between a car and health insurance.

drive you car all you want, but don't you dare lecture me about the climate change... take some responsibility for once in your life.

289 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:04:51pm

Very telling that in the post above about solutions there is a lot of "you need to do this, and you need to do that".

Not "we".

290 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:05:05pm

re: #275 brookly red

I pray that neither you nor I get sick... if I do I have health insurance. I purchased it instead of a car. We all make our own choices.

I'm a Canadian. If I get sick, I get treated. I will not go bankrupt because of medical costs.

291 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:05:12pm

re: #274 Racer X

Top NY Official Resigns in Wake of Allegations

And Paterson is done.

I predict Change.

Paterson should go now.

292 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:05:31pm

re: #274 Racer X

One can only hope...

293 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:06:25pm

re: #290 b_sharp

I'm a Canadian. If I get sick, I get treated. I will not go bankrupt because of medical costs.

excellent!

294 The Shadow Do  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:06:29pm

re: #268 ludwigvanquixote

I was commenting to a colleague that the fate of the world hangs on the next American election.

The GOP has a part of their plank that they will do nothing about this. The Dems may still be swayed.

If the GOP wins, America falls to AGW.

It would be cataclysmic should a Republican be elected. There is just no doubt about it.

I had no idea the "fate of the world" hinged on my next vote.

Ron Paul!

The hominid is not to be differentiated from the Dinosaur. Both will stupidly wander about in their changing environment...until they die. Such dumbasses we all are. Evolution, smeevolution...

295 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:06:34pm

re: #277 ludwigvanquixote

No what you do is snipe at the science every chance you get. Do we really need to drag up your posts? Do we really need to drag up all the denialist crap you go and spew?

Yes, yes I get that you don't like me. Iget that it makes you feel like something special to try to take the physicist down a peg. Populist "self edumicated, mountain man types like you always think you are smarter than us scientists anyway. It's all plumage after all... And it is yet another attempt to insult me and ignore the science.

NO step one for you to learn to shut the fuck up.

Ste two is to use that silence to learn the science.

I've never sniped at the science, not once...you make stuff up...I don't like you because you are a super aggressive narcissist who freaks out when people don't accept your style...like I said, I have a extremely small carbon footprint, and if you are some sort of scientist making good money than I'd wager yours is far larger than mine...you can't preach to me about 'doing something'....and telling people that annoy you to "shut the fuck up" is a sure sign of insecurity....use the scroll function before you blow a cork....you are nobody special here, regardless of your endless dooms day crap

296 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:06:36pm

re: #281 Racer X

The whole country does.

Not even talking about people that I agree with being in charge, how about just some f*cking adults instead of the children we have for most of our representatives, governors, senators, etc!?! Let me also add for all their faults, we've been blessed to always have an adult for our president. Not sure if the USA survives without an adult at the helm....

297 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:06:41pm

re: #289 Racer X

Very telling that in the post above about solutions there is a lot of "you need to do this, and you need to do that".

Not "we".

I suspect that Ludwig is already doing those things.

298 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:06:54pm

re: #292 lawhawk

Can he be prosecuted for something if he did make that phone call to the victim?

299 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:06:59pm

re: #291 MandyManners

Paterson should go now.

He should have left a while ago.

300 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:07:08pm

re: #288 brookly red

drive you car all you want, but don't you dare lecture me about the climate change... take some responsibility for once in your life.

Umm... I haven't been talking about climate change I've been talking about healthcare, and how I want it to be more affordable.....

301 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:07:23pm

re: #290 b_sharp

No, but your country could... or they might reduce the level of medical care and people who are fed up with the level of care will try to go elsewhere (as Danny Williams did). Canada's population is also a far cry from the US...

302 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:07:56pm

re: #300 jamesfirecat

Umm... I haven't been talking about climate change I've been talking about healthcare, and how I want it to be more affordable...

You want health care to be more affordable... don't get fucking sick.

303 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:08:10pm

re: #299 Surabaya Stew

He should have left a while ago.

I don't follow the politics in NY so I'll have to take your word for it.

304 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:08:15pm

re: #289 Racer X

Very telling that in the post above about solutions there is a lot of "you need to do this, and you need to do that".

Not "we".

Well I already do those things - and much more. And yes everyone needs to do that.

The most important step zero thing that everyone can do is learn the science.

Learn it and think it through for yourself so you know it is true and have the certainty that you would have when talking about the fact that the Earth orbits the sun.

Then open your mouth about it.

Convince others about the truth.

Shut down the deniers and don't bitch if a practical solution has a short term cost associated with it.

305 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:08:50pm

re: #277 ludwigvanquixote
Or whoever else has expertise-
Gut checking my own conclusions from reading links etc-The more I read (as much as I can, but I admit my limits) , the more I suspect AGW has been slowed by a couple natural factors, and when that changes the effects will become more clear, more dangerous. We are in a a solar minimum, we are in a cooler part of the very long solar orbit/tilt cycle, and maybe the soot part of our pollution. Uh global dimming.
So the worst has been masked by 2 natural and one man made factor.

306 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:09:06pm

re: #300 jamesfirecat

Umm... I haven't been talking about climate change I've been talking about healthcare, and how I want it to be more affordable...

Oh, OK... first rule of business is to get rid of the middle man. In this case the middle man is the government. Does that help?

307 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:09:12pm

re: #285 ludwigvanquixote

Steve is not a troll.. and is a valued member of LGF

308 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:09:14pm

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

You want health care to be more affordable... don't get fucking sick.

My current healthcare plan is to live forever or die trying!

309 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:09:23pm

re: #295 albusteve

Really you don't deny the science, but you were calling what the science says a "juvenile crisis scenario."

Just piss off troll.

310 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:09:24pm

re: #286 Decatur Deb

That so has the ring of truth about it.

311 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:10:04pm

re: #306 brookly red

Oh, OK... first rule of business is to get rid of the middle man. In this case the middle man is the government. Does that help?

I'd argue middle man is the guy selling you insurance. Is he going to give you surgery if you get sick? Does he make the pills that help you get better?

312 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:10:11pm
313 kingkenrod  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:11:02pm

re: #218 ludwigvanquixote

Ahhh.. So I really do hope you will someday keep your word and not talk to me.

However, this time, I shall point a few things out.

The publications, which you do not question (here at least), are claiming massive loss of coastline (including most of our major cities, places like NY and Boston etc...) Complete loss of melt water in the American SW, leaving entire states like Az, NM, Colorado etc without fresh water, and oh yes, and overall reduction of food production by over 60% (in the mid range predictions).

In other words, the science which you claim to believe, in other words is predicting. Millions of Americans without homes, millions without water (not without water to bath, but without water to drink, i.e. move or die), and all of us with vastly less food.

That is what the science, which you are currently claiming you do not dispute predicts.

Yet you have the chutzpah to claim that saying this will be an utter catastrophe for America is some how hysterical.

What the hell is wrong with you?

What's the time frame for these predictions?

314 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:11:22pm

re: #313 kingkenrod

What's the time frame for these predictions?

2035

315 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:11:29pm

re: #278 b_sharp

Half of Sask's population lives in areas where climate change is going to make life difficult. We'll all have to move north where there is much less land but much more water, now. I hate to think of what will happen when those lakes dry up.

Manitoba, Ontario and Quebec have even less arable land in the north because of the shield. It ain't going to be good.

Yep I know. I live in Ontario. I'll be pretty honest here, I've been aware of and spent years, getting close to 25 now, advocating about climate change and hoping all the while that I was wrong. About five years ago I came to the realization that the likelihood that the political will to do something real about it, in enough time to make difference was more then likely not going to happen. I'm still hopeful in that regard but with the recent political climate both here and in the US it's not looking that great. I try not to be a pessimist but it's difficult. When I moved where I currently live it was with the future in mind in terms of climatic conditions, potential future conditions (made sure I moved where there's a sound water supply is one example) and my work changed from outright political advocacy to working at practical and small scale measures based more on surviving and adapting to whats coming. My focus is mostly around food partly for my own and families future security but for the future of my local community as well.

316 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:12:02pm

re: #312 Walter L. Newton

Evident the Premier of Newfoundland is not as certain about the Canadian health care system as you are...

An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.

"I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

Is it possible that America has the very best Healthcare but only at prices that say 10% of the population can afford and the rest of us get much worse healthcare than the average person from Canada does?

317 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:12:34pm

re: #303 MandyManners

I don't follow the politics in NY so I'll have to take your word for it.

That's cool, keeping track of one's own state and neighboring states is difficult enough! It's not just that Paterson is just a bad leader, he has no credibility with anybody here due to his indecisiveness and isolation. Why he is every trying to run again is beyond me.

318 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:12:38pm

re: #309 ludwigvanquixote

re: #295 albusteve

I'll just ask you guys to not get terribly pissed and have this thread go all angry. Just a request gentlemen.

319 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:12:46pm

re: #309 ludwigvanquixote

Really you don't deny the science, but you were calling what the science says a "juvenile crisis scenario."

Just piss off troll.

the science is separate from your drama...you don't have to get so angry about it

320 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:13:26pm

re: #315 Jadespring

All that, and hockey gold.

321 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:14:08pm

re: #304 ludwigvanquixote

Well I already do those things - and much more. And yes everyone needs to do that.

The most important step zero thing that everyone can do is learn the science.

Learn it and think it through for yourself so you know it is true and have the certainty that you would have when talking about the fact that the Earth orbits the sun.

Then open your mouth about it.

Convince others about the truth.

Shut down the deniers and don't bitch if a practical solution has a short term cost associated with it.

Agreed.

And I would add "in a polite yet effective manner."

322 brookly red  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:14:32pm

re: #311 jamesfirecat

I'd argue middle man is the guy selling you insurance. Is he going to give you surgery if you get sick? Does he make the pills that help you get better?

actually you make a good point. if you can negotiate a better deal with your doctor & your pharmacy by all means do it.

323 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:15:12pm

re: #316 jamesfirecat

Is it possible that America has the very best Healthcare but only at prices that say 10% of the population can afford and the rest of us get much worse healthcare than the average person from Canada does?

Italy makes the best cars. Italy is not the world's best car producer.

324 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:15:31pm

re: #316 jamesfirecat

The operation that Williams got is available in Canada. In fact one of the pioneers of the technique was a Canadian in Canada.
There's much more to the story of why he decided to go to the US then just availability and a supposed inferior system.

325 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:15:49pm

re: #316 jamesfirecat

Is it possible that America has the very best Healthcare but only at prices that say 10% of the population can afford and the rest of us get much worse healthcare than the average person from Canada does?

I didn't say anything about us having the best, did I. And I guess you are missing the idea here. Why didn't the Premier stick with the Canadian health care system like all of the other citizens? Is there something wrong with the Canadian health care?

326 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:16:36pm

re: #317 Surabaya Stew

That's cool, keeping track of one's own state and neighboring states is difficult enough! It's not just that Paterson is just a bad leader, he has no credibility with anybody here due to his indecisiveness and isolation. Why he is every trying to run again is beyond me.

I'm just wondering why he would stick his neck out for an abuser.

327 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:16:47pm

re: #318 Rightwingconspirator

re: #295 albusteve

I'll just ask you guys to not get terribly pissed and have this thread go all angry. Just a request gentlemen.

But Ludwig has a right to get upset. Steve won't agree with him. What would you do other than shout and scream if someone didn't agree with you. Lay off Ludwig.

328 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:17:05pm

re: #305 Rightwingconspirator

Or whoever else has expertise-
Gut checking my own conclusions from reading links etc-The more I read (as much as I can, but I admit my limits) , the more I suspect AGW has been slowed by a couple natural factors, and when that changes the effects will become more clear, more dangerous. We are in a a solar minimum, we are in a cooler part of the very long solar orbit/tilt cycle, and maybe the soot part of our pollution. Uh global dimming.
So the worst has been masked by 2 natural and one man made factor.

OK. It is very interesting that you bring this.

We are in a solar minimum right now, yet we are still warming quite a lot. When the sun "gets back to normal" it will be worse.

I am always amused at the deniers who go on and on about the sun as an article of faith, but, they miss the point that since we are in a minimum, but still warming, it can not possibly be the sun causing the warming.

However, it should be noted that the minimum we are getting from the sun is a very small minimum indeed. We are talking the smallest fraction of a percent less solar output. IN fact, it is a small blip on the radar as far as AGW is concerned when we look at energy budgets.

As to the fact that we are in a cool phase of the orbits and long term cycles, yes you should be alarmed that we completely reversed that trend.

Particulate matter does not stay in the atmosphere for very long. Also, since it tends to kill trees and other plants that would scrub the CO2, it is more of a problem than a help. Because of this, it in of itself, is not a solution. Again, it is up there for months to a year or so at most. CO2 on the other hand is up there for centuries.

329 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:17:41pm

re: #312 Walter L. Newton

Mr Williams chose to have surgery in the US because he wanted a new procedure that was less invasive than traditional heart valve surgery and would leave him without a visible scar.

330 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:18:27pm

re: #298 MandyManners

According to this, the call was made by the Governor to the woman, but it's not clear what was said or whether it influenced any proceeding. Mind you, no one knows what was said, but the appearance of impropriety is overwhelming here.

It looks real bad, and it quite likely broke ethical guidelines. AG Cuomo will definitely be investigating this (which I'm sure will further push him to run against Paterson particularly by those last remaining Democrats who are still supporting Paterson consider fleeing the sinking ship).

331 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:18:30pm

re: #313 kingkenrod

What's the time frame for these predictions?

By the end of this century, we the world as we know it will no longer exist.

Along the way though, it will not be a pleasant ride.

332 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:19:13pm

re: #324 Jadespring

The operation that Williams got is available in Canada. In fact one of the pioneers of the technique was a Canadian in Canada.
There's much more to the story of why he decided to go to the US then just availability and a supposed inferior system.

More details:

Surgery Williams had in U.S. available here

The treatment Danny Williams received in the United States is available in at least four Canadian centres including hospitals in Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto, doctors told CBC News.

Williams has made no apologies for following what he said were doctors' orders in flying to Miami to have "minimally invasive" surgery earlier this month to repair a leaky heart valve.

However, Montreal cardiac surgeon Dr. Hugues Jeanmart finds that medical advice puzzling.

"I was very surprised, especially for the reason he [Williams] advanced, saying that we didn't have this kind of expertise in Canada, which I completely disagree with," he said.

Jeanmart repairs heart valves using the latest in robotic technology. Instead of open-heart surgery, the operation is performed through an incision under the arm, so there is no large chest scar and there are other benefits as well, Jeanmart said.

"There's less pain, less bleeding, less chance of infection and the main point is faster recovery after these kinds of surgery."

...


There is a wait-list in Montreal of up to three months, but urgent cases can get the surgery right away, Jeanmart said.
333 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:19:32pm

re: #324 Jadespring

The operation that Williams got is available in Canada. In fact one of the pioneers of the technique was a Canadian in Canada.
There's much more to the story of why he decided to go to the US then just availability and a supposed inferior system.

Yes, there is a lot more to the story, which is all detailed at the link I posted. Want some highlights?

"(But) this is not a unique phenomenon to me. This is something that happens with lots of families throughout this country, so I make no apologies for that."

"We do whatever we can to provide the best possible health care that we can in Newfoundland and Labrador. The Canadian health care system has a great reputation, but this is a very specialized piece of surgery that had to be done and I went to somebody who's doing this three or four times a day, five, six days a week."

Williams also said he paid for the treatment, but added he would seek any refunds he would be eligible for in Canada.

"If I'm entitled to any reimbursement from any Canadian health care system or any provincial health care system, then obviously I will apply for that as anybody else would," he said.

334 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:19:36pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

I didn't say anything about us having the best, did I. And I guess you are missing the idea here. Why didn't the Premier stick with the Canadian health care system like all of the other citizens? Is there something wrong with the Canadian health care?

Umm...

"I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

If He says that...

And he goes to America to get the procedure done...

Is it safe to assume that at least HE thinks America has the best healthcare system?

Like I said the shiny golden best American healthcare out there is probably better than the average healthcare even a rich person might get in Canada.

But what kind of healthcare rich people can get anywhere shouldn't matter we should be looking at what the middle class do.

When the middle class people start leaving Canada to go to the US for operations I'll be dubious of their healthcare system.

335 solomonpanting  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:19:46pm

re: #314 Walter L. Newton

re: #313 kingkenrod

What's the time frame for these predictions?

2035

Bloom Energy unveils fuel cell of the future

Sridhar predicted it will take about a decade for the technology to get to the point where it can be used in homes


/

Given this time frame, I suspect the new point of no return for the global apocalypse to be less than ten years.

336 Surabaya Stew  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:20:22pm

re: #322 brookly red

actually you make a good point. if you can negotiate a better deal with your doctor & your pharmacy by all means do it.

My wife does that all the time (I have COBRA, she's uninsured) by being the nicest and sweetest girl every time she has to see her GP or get some testing done. This is helped along by the fact that she is pretty, young looking, well groomed, and wears attractive clothing. After her visit or blood-work or whatever, she kindly asks the doctor he he can lower the bill because she is uninsured and doesn't earn a lot of money. With those big, round, Javanese eyes staring at the billing agent, she always gets a discount of 50% to 75%.

Were she to turn old or ugly, she would be shit out of luck.

337 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:21:38pm

re: #332 publicityStunted

So, Williams, a proponent of the Canadian health care system didn't get the right information from his Canadian doctors about the availability in Canada and instead went to the States? Still missing information here...

338 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:22:21pm

re: #330 lawhawk

According to this, the call was made by the Governor to the woman, but it's not clear what was said or whether it influenced any proceeding. Mind you, no one knows what was said, but the appearance of impropriety is overwhelming here.

It looks real bad, and it quite likely broke ethical guidelines. AG Cuomo will definitely be investigating this (which I'm sure will further push him to run against Paterson particularly by those last remaining Democrats who are still supporting Paterson consider fleeing the sinking ship).

I hope they also go after the state police for this.

339 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:23:53pm

re: #337 lawhawk

So, Williams, a proponent of the Canadian health care system didn't get the right information from his Canadian doctors about the availability in Canada and instead went to the States? Still missing information here...

Might have wanted to see the Appalachian Trail.

340 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:23:58pm

re: #338 MandyManners

It wouldn't be the first time that the State Police were manipulated by the governor's office (same kinds of charges were alleged in the Spitzer administration).

341 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:24:08pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

Yes, there is a lot more to the story, which is all detailed at the link I posted. Want some highlights?

"(But) this is not a unique phenomenon to me. This is something that happens with lots of families throughout this country, so I make no apologies for that."

"We do whatever we can to provide the best possible health care that we can in Newfoundland and Labrador. The Canadian health care system has a great reputation, but this is a very specialized piece of surgery that had to be done and I went to somebody who's doing this three or four times a day, five, six days a week."

Williams also said he paid for the treatment, but added he would seek any refunds he would be eligible for in Canada.

"If I'm entitled to any reimbursement from any Canadian health care system or any provincial health care system, then obviously I will apply for that as anybody else would," he said.

Why? He's rich!

342 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:24:37pm

re: #319 albusteve

the science is separate from your drama...you don't have to get so angry about it

You are the one who always starts with sniping and you have not quite yet.

I have answered any thing you have said that was of scientific meaning. In the mean time though, please, you really are fooling no one.

Do go away.

You have nothing of merit to add.

343 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:25:13pm

re: #340 lawhawk

It wouldn't be the first time that the State Police were manipulated by the governor's office (same kinds of charges were alleged in the Spitzer administration).

Does it need to be overhauled?

344 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:25:44pm

re: #301 lawhawk

No, but your country could... or they might reduce the level of medical care and people who are fed up with the level of care will try to go elsewhere (as Danny Williams did). Canada's population is also a far cry from the US...

The problems we have with health care are overblown. What makes the news, and consequently infects peoples minds, are the cases were something goes wrong.

I had a cancer scare last October. From the time I mentioned the problem to my doc till the specialist had a camera in a place that was both painful and embarrassing was 3 weeks. Two years ago, my wife had septicemia. From the time I took her to the hospital, till they removed a gangrenous gall bladder, including diagnostic time using both an MRI and CT scan, was just over 3 weeks. The MRI and CT were used as soon as they felt it necessary, there was no wait at all. Most of the time was taken trying to diagnose the problem because she was presenting non-typically and it took several blood tests to show the infection, and in trying to find an effective anti-biotic.

Anecdotal as these stories may be, there are more of them than the opposite. Long wait times are usually for things like hip replacements and such.

Danny was told the treatment was not available in Canada. That was wrong, it was not available in Newfoundland, but is available in most other provinces.

What does population size have to do with it?

345 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:27:02pm

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

But Ludwig has a right to get upset. Steve won't agree with him. What would you do other than shout and scream if someone didn't agree with you. Lay off Ludwig.

Walter, you are being a pissant again. Stevie is calling the science hysterical and juvenile and trying to make it about me, while claiming he doesn't disagree with the science, just me, even though I am only bringing the science.

You are going through an asshole phase again, but he is an asshole all the time.

346 Jadespring  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:30:48pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

With respect I'm not going to debate this with you. If you want to put Williams up on some sort pedestal and use it as another Canada healthcare blah blah bash thing then go right ahead. Suffice it to say I think you are way of base with conclusions you and some others are drawing and know very little of what you are talking about.

Honestly as a Canadian I find the whole healthcare debate in the US to be quite pathetic starting right down at it's moral foundations and out of respect for people on this largely US board I tend to stay out of it. Do want you want and continue to blah on Canada for the pinko healthcare socialists that we are when it comes to how we view our healthcare. I don't particularly care. While our system isn't perfect and has it's issue there's no bloody way in hell that I would ever trade it for what the US has right now.

347 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:33:00pm

re: #312 Walter L. Newton

Evident the Premier of Newfoundland is not as certain about the Canadian health care system as you are...

An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.

"I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

Good for Danny.
Ask Canadians which system they would rather have, the Canadian version, including all the warts, or the US version. Politicians campaigning on going the US direction do not get voted in.

How many in Europe want the US system?

348 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:34:31pm

re: #342 ludwigvanquixote

You are the one who always starts with sniping and you have not quite yet.

I have answered any thing you have said that was of scientific meaning. In the mean time though, please, you really are fooling no one.

Do go away.

You have nothing of merit to add.

your doomsday predictions precede my sniping....it's all been posted before and I say you have nothing to add yourself....you are using GW science to enhance your blog status here and I personally find that rather disgusting....it's less about the science than it is about you...that's what leads you to call people names and ruin threads...it's all about you, except with me it isn't...the science is your vehicle and in the end you do the AGW situation no good at all

349 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:35:55pm

re: #315 Jadespring

Yep I know. I live in Ontario. I'll be pretty honest here, I've been aware of and spent years, getting close to 25 now, advocating about climate change and hoping all the while that I was wrong. About five years ago I came to the realization that the likelihood that the political will to do something real about it, in enough time to make difference was more then likely not going to happen. I'm still hopeful in that regard but with the recent political climate both here and in the US it's not looking that great. I try not to be a pessimist but it's difficult. When I moved where I currently live it was with the future in mind in terms of climatic conditions, potential future conditions (made sure I moved where there's a sound water supply is one example) and my work changed from outright political advocacy to working at practical and small scale measures based more on surviving and adapting to whats coming. My focus is mostly around food partly for my own and families future security but for the future of my local community as well.

Our biggest problem right now is the minority government with Harper in charge.

350 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:37:33pm

re: #345 ludwigvanquixote

Walter, you are being a pissant again. Stevie is calling the science hysterical and juvenile and trying to make it about me, while claiming he doesn't disagree with the science, just me, even though I am only bringing the science.

You are going through an asshole phase again, but he is an asshole all the time.

I don't disagree with the science...you are simply making stuff up...the science is not hysterical, you are...you are not getting it, you are fabricating a fantasy...I'd challenge you to prove my disagreement with the science, but I know you can't

351 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:37:35pm

re: #348 albusteve

It has been posted again and again by me for over a year, much longer than you have even been here.

I have educated hundreds of the truth of the science. It is the field I work in after all.

You in the mean time do nothing but snipe. It makes you a troll.

So at this point I say fuck off :)

352 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:39:45pm

re: #337 lawhawk

So, Williams, a proponent of the Canadian health care system didn't get the right information from his Canadian doctors about the availability in Canada and instead went to the States? Still missing information here...

For all we know it could be a personal thing, i.e. some special knowledge of or connection to the hospital in the US (e.g. his own doctor saying something like, "I know the surgeon personally, he's fantastic").

Speaking in more general terms, however, there are lots of reasons for "medical tourism", and Americans are no stranger to the practice - like trips to Mexico to get care at a much cheaper rate than they'd pay in the States...or perhaps heading North instead!

353 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:40:26pm

re: #350 albusteve

I don't disagree with the science...you are simply making stuff up...the science is not hysterical, you are...you are not getting it, you are fabricating a fantasy...I'd challenge you to prove my disagreement with the science, but I know you can't

If the science is predicting a catastrophe of proportions never before seen in human history, then calling it so is not hysterical.

You are of course challenging the science with your tone, attitude and choice of words.

It is actually not about my ego, it is about yours.

It always has been.

Again, I get that you don't like me. That's fine. I find you an ignorant and repugnant ass myself - but that has nothing to do with the fact that you really just hate it when people who are smarter and better educated than you talk.

That's fine. Snipe at me all you want on some shit that doesn't matter. This does. Getting it wrong leads to billions of deaths.

354 albusteve  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:40:49pm

re: #351 ludwigvanquixote

It has been posted again and again by me for over a year, much longer than you have even been here.

I have educated hundreds of the truth of the science. It is the field I work in after all.

You in the mean time do nothing but snipe. It makes you a troll.

So at this point I say fuck off :)

I've been here longer than you, I have no clue what that is supposed to mean...you are just blowing your own horn now, consumed by the science

355 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:41:43pm

re: #328 ludwigvanquixote

Thanks for that-If I may share my part of the carbon footprint, we do try to do our best. At the refinery of my employer-We scrub the Nox and acid vapors from our aqua regia acid reaction exhaust. We scrub the metal fumes from smelting in two story tall "baghouse" air filters. Based on my experience I have real hope about carbon capture/afterburn scrubbers for the future. A worth R&D project I believe.

We do all this to recycle all the metals from scrap jewelry. We do all we can to cut emissions and energy usage. If anyone ever wants to see the advantages of hydrogen combustion over other heat fuels just email. I can prove its advantages.

All this helps me believe we can find technical solutions given the will.

356 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:43:31pm

re: #354 albusteve

I've been here longer than you, I have no clue what that is supposed to mean...you are just blowing your own horn now, consumed by the science

OK fine, you've been here a little longer. I just checked. That actually makes it worse for you. You know full well that this is about saving lives, that people don't get it, and that the truth needs to be repeated again and again or else they will refuse to look at it.

Of course, back handed denier that you are, that may well be what you are hoping for. Again. You add nothing to this. The only one with nothing to say is you. Take your arrogance and foolishness elsewhere.

357 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:45:03pm

re: #355 Rightwingconspirator

Thanks for that-If I may share my part of the carbon footprint, we do try to do our best. At the refinery of my employer-We scrub the Nox and acid vapors from our aqua regia acid reaction exhaust. We scrub the metal fumes from smelting in two story tall "baghouse" air filters. Based on my experience I have real hope about carbon capture/afterburn scrubbers for the future. A worth R&D project I believe.

We do all this to recycle all the metals from scrap jewelry. We do all we can to cut emissions and energy usage. If anyone ever wants to see the advantages of hydrogen combustion over other heat fuels just email. I can prove its advantages.

All this helps me believe we can find technical solutions given the will.

We actually do have the technology right now.

The solution is nuclear, solar, wind, smart grids and high energy density batteries.

We have the technology.

What we lack is the political will to break the death grip of the fossil fuel industry and their pet politicians.

358 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:46:12pm

re: #332 publicityStunted

Tinfoil hat on: he's probably buddies with a republican senator or someone and agreed to be a talking point.

359 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:51:28pm

re: #356 ludwigvanquixote

OK fine, you've been here a little longer. I just checked. That actually makes it worse for you. You know full well that this is about saving lives, that people don't get it, and that the truth needs to be repeated again and again or else they will refuse to look at it.

Of course, back handed denier that you are, that may well be what you are hoping for. Again. You add nothing to this. The only one with nothing to say is you. Take your arrogance and foolishness elsewhere.

Why are you so hateful tonight? Chill the fuck out...
You are so smart about AGW.. I built Nuclear Submarines for 20 years..You don't know shit about Westinghouse Reactors...I could just blow your ass off this blog about Nuclear subs...Please show some grace here...Not all of us are climate scientists here...But be careful..And teach don't trash.Please Ludwig..I ask you.....

360 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:53:08pm

That was an informative little clip. Glad they didn't sling words like "albedo" around, otherwise I would've had a hard time keeping up.

361 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:56:25pm

re: #257 ludwigvanquixote

Although I am at times your erstwhile allie on these subjects you need to knock it the fuck off with the ad-hominem comments about people.

Sorry for the downding, but you went out of your way to ask for that one, it was solely for the needless "asshole" comment, not the other content of your post.

I have asked you before and now I will ask you again, Please, please stop with the needless insults. Instead of seeming like a serious intellectual you seem like a 15 year old punk "internet toughguy." You destroy the credibility of everything else you have said by throwing in that one inane comment...

362 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:56:33pm

re: #359 HoosierHoops

Why are you so hateful tonight? Chill the fuck out...
You are so smart about AGW.. I built Nuclear Submarines for 20 years..You don't know shit about Westinghouse Reactors...I could just blow your ass off this blog about Nuclear subs...Please show some grace here...Not all of us are climate scientists here...But be careful..And teach don't trash.Please Ludwig..I ask you...

Hoops?

Huh?

I don't claim expertise in things I don't know about.

As to Stevie, are you honestly denying that he snipes at me and the science every chance he gets?

Are you honestly denying that he is absolutely trying to de rail the conversation in attack after attack against me, but no real talk about the science?

WTF?

363 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:58:25pm

re: #361 ausador

Although I am at times your erstwhile allie on these subjects you need to knock it the fuck off with the ad-hominem comments about people.

Sorry for the downding, but you went out of your way to ask for that one, it was solely for the needless "asshole" comment, not the other content of your post.

I have asked you before and now I will ask you again, Please, please stop with the needless insults. Instead of seeming like a serious intellectual you seem like a 15 year old punk "internet toughguy." You destroy the credibility of everything else you have said by throwing in that one inane comment...

Then where were you when he was attacking me for the last ten posts?

Did we suddenly switch to a different universe?

364 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:58:37pm

Dinner time folks I'm outtta here for now.

365 Achilles Tang  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 6:58:42pm

re: #134 Thanos

Well one of the reasons is that scientists have really been doing a poor job at communicating - picking Al Gore as spokesperson, politicizing it, and then arguing with the denialists instead of communicating the basics of the situation to the general public.

I like this approach, and maybe if they'd been doing this all along the anti-science crowd wouldn't be able to exploit public opinion on this topic so easily.

Sorry for the late reply, but do you really think the "scientists" have been doing a poor job of communicating (never mind Al Gore)?

I read their communications all the time, not only on LGF, and much of it is damned good stuff, and even entertaining. It is available everywhere, even on TV.

The problem lies elsewhere and to put it simply and bluntly, it amounts to a distortion of democracy where even the ignorant have the same voice as the informed.

Electronic communication is the new face of evolution.

366 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:02:13pm

re: #362 ludwigvanquixote

Hoops?

Huh?

I don't claim expertise in things I don't know about.

As to Stevie, are you honestly denying that he snipes at me and the science every chance he gets?

Are you honestly denying that he is absolutely trying to de rail the conversation in attack after attack against me, but no real talk about the science?

WTF?

I prefer grace and kindness my dear friend.. I still don't understand climate science.. But I am learning...
Please..Be kind to the lizards..We can learn so much from you...
K?

367 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:03:57pm

Ludwig, you may appreciate this piece at HuffPo, from Prof. Bill Chameides: Screwups in Climate Science. The science, however correct it may be, does not speak for itself. A Carl Sagan or an Isaac Asimov is needed, to get out in front of runaway misrepresentations in the popular press.

368 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:03:59pm

re: #366 HoosierHoops

I prefer grace and kindness my dear friend.. I still don't understand climate science.. But I am learning...
Please..Be kind to the lizards..We can learn so much from you...
K?

My friend did you notice that I talk with grace and kindness to all who show such to me?

369 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:07:56pm

re: #365 Naso Tang

Sorry for the late reply, but do you really think the "scientists" have been doing a poor job of communicating (never mind Al Gore)?

I read their communications all the time, not only on LGF, and much of it is damned good stuff, and even entertaining. It is available everywhere, even on TV.

The problem lies elsewhere and to put it simply and bluntly, it amounts to a distortion of democracy where even the ignorant have the same voice as the informed.

Electronic communication is the new face of evolution.

Trouble is, we can't simply tell the public to sit down and shut up, because their futures are tied up in this science. It's not like rebuffing some layperson horning into a serious astrophysical issue, when they only know what they read in Discover magazine.

370 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:09:21pm

re: #367 The Sanity Inspector

Ludwig, you may appreciate this piece at HuffPo, from Prof. Bill Chameides: Screwups in Climate Science. The science, however correct it may be, does not speak for itself. A Carl Sagan or an Isaac Asimov is needed, to get out in front of runaway misrepresentations in the popular press.

That is for sure true.

About needing better communication from the science community. However, I do believe that the science speaks for itself.

Consider the following statement.

CO2 is a GHG. If you dump huge amounts of a gas into the atmosphere that traps more heat from the sun, you must make your planet warmer.

It really is that simple.

371 Achilles Tang  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:11:46pm

re: #363 ludwigvanquixote

Thanks for the ding, but I didn't deliberately jump in the middle of one of your slanging matches and I don't want to give the impression that I did so in your support. I have few disagreements with your positions, but I have plenty with your strident form of debate, not to mention overly sensitive ego.

But I like you, really.

372 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:15:53pm

re: #371 Naso Tang

Thanks for the ding, but I didn't deliberately jump in the middle of one of your slanging matches and I don't want to give the impression that I did so in your support. I have few disagreements with your positions, but I have plenty with your strident form of debate, not to mention overly sensitive ego.

But I like you, really.

You know that is a remarkable mis-perception.

So for you and anyone else who is upset with my strident sense of writing. Let me remind you of some facts that no one here is claiming to deny.

We just established that AGW means the collapse of America's food supply, economy and many of her cities.

We established that billions die world wide.

Anyone who does not see that first and foremost - before the sensitive egos of silly pseudo trolls who wish to sound important is being a fool.

My ego is not fragile. I've been taking shit from these creeps for over a year and I keep coming back to tell the truth.

Why?

Because billions die.

There is no other point.

Billions die if we get this wrong.

Get that straight and take you sympathy for the stupid elsewhere. Their fragile egos can be alive to hate me.

373 Racer X  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:18:10pm

re: #372 LudwigVanQuixote

You know, it just may be possible that you would win over a few more people to your position if you took a different tact.

374 Achilles Tang  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:18:12pm

re: #369 The Sanity Inspector

Trouble is, we can't simply tell the public to sit down and shut up, because their futures are tied up in this science. It's not like rebuffing some layperson horning into a serious astrophysical issue, when they only know what they read in Discover magazine.

Of course one can't tell "the public" to shut up. My point is simply, even though irrelevant, that until not long ago "the public" was shut up by default because it was too much trouble to say anything and even then there was little way to know if there was another, shall we say, crackpot withing 500 miles.

As to reading Discover magazine, that would do just fine. I consider myself a layperson.

375 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:18:54pm

re: #368 ludwigvanquixote

My friend did you notice that I talk with grace and kindness to all who show such to me?

Fair enough bro...I have a great story for you..Back in the early days of the 688 attack sub development we had a problem.. The designers of the boat placed a 6" pipe along the outer hull of the boat for the SW1 salt water valve to dump to sea.. The problem was a 3/4" thick 6" pipe would not bend on a 33 ft diameter..The math does work my friend.. I figured it out when I was 25 years old....All 688 subs use my math to bend pipes in a 33 foot hull...
During my Masters a teacher challenged me and I blew him away on the chalk board...
You know how you bend a pipe to impossible angles? You place a straight 6 foot pipe on the center line of the boat and build from there...I detailed it on the chalkboard at Sonoma State University..And humiliated my Prof...
Show grace my friend

376 solomonpanting  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:21:09pm

re: #372 LudwigVanQuixote

Because billions die.

There is no other point.

Billions die if we get this wrong.

The Carl Sagan prognostication.

377 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:21:11pm

re: #373 Racer X

You know, it just may be possible that you would win over a few more people to your position if you took a different tact.

History shows that I won't. They keep coming back with the same shit over and over. You've been here long enough to know I started out with respectfully this and respectfully that. You know I have been explaining the science over and over for over a year.

Yet exactly as is the case with evolution deniers, the denier types will not hear. They plug their little ears and go la la la I can't hear you and then start with the insults.

Through all of that it too me a very long time to get fed up with them.

I also came to realize that the benefits of calling stupid stupid outweigh the false benefits of letting deniers seem to be "equals" in a "debate."

378 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:22:27pm

re: #376 solomonpanting

The Carl Sagan prognostication.

YOU see that is the sort of thing I am talking about. When you phrase it like that, it seems a joke.

No. Quite literally, billions will die.

379 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:27:07pm

re: #375 HoosierHoops

Fair enough bro...I have a great story for you..Back in the early days of the 688 attack sub development we had a problem.. The designers of the boat placed a 6" pipe along the outer hull of the boat for the SW1 salt water valve to dump to sea.. The problem was a 3/4" thick 6" pipe would not bend on a 33 ft diameter..The math does work my friend.. I figured it out when I was 25 years old...All 688 subs use my math to bend pipes in a 33 foot hull...
During my Masters a teacher challenged me and I blew him away on the chalk board...
You know how you bend a pipe to impossible angles? You place a straight 6 foot pipe on the center line of the boat and build from there...I detailed it on the chalkboard at Sonoma State University..And humiliated my Prof...
Show grace my friend

Hoops you know full well I used to do some stuff with the nuclear Navy right?

As to profs getting things wrong, they are humans and they do make mistakes. I would never ever try to humiliate and educated person who made an honest error.

As to blowhards who try every underhanded trick in the book to derail a science discussion. They are not worth my spit. However, since insulating the rest of the world from their lies and distortions is the only way to save my family, nation and friends, not to mention you and me, I have to engage them.

The way that ID gains traction, the way that Israel loses the propaganda war and the way that AGW iis getting beaten down, is preciesl because epoele take the false "high road."

If you give the cretins equal time and more respect than they deserve, they are seen falsely as people who might have a legitimate point.

They do not.

Yet because we lack the courage to call stupid lies stupid lies, it is a "debate" when the reality is that the truth only has one side.

380 solomonpanting  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:27:17pm

re: #378 LudwigVanQuixote

YOU see that is the sort of thing I am talking about. When you phrase it like that, it seems a joke.

No. Quite literally, billions will die.

I predict that in less than one hundred years at least six billion will die.

381 windhorse  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:28:34pm
382 Achilles Tang  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:28:40pm

re: #372 LudwigVanQuixote

We will all die sooner or later Ludwig. Most of us will be sooner than any cause of AGW. There are many other more immediate ways of dying that conceivably could have preventable or delayed or less unpleasant forms if we made them our priority.

I'm just suggesting that you consider that not everyone who disagrees with you is insulting you; at least not in the initial posts, after which it becomes irrelevant.

383 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:28:52pm

re: #380 solomonpanting

I predict that in less than one hundred years at least six billion will die.

Are you trying to be funny? Yes I get the point.

Everyone alive today will most likely be dead in 100 years.

You see it is shit like this that dismisses utterly the realities I am talking about that cause me to call people like you assholes.

384 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:32:35pm

re: #363 ludwigvanquixote

Then where were you when he was attacking me for the last ten posts?

Did we suddenly switch to a different universe?

Did you know that it is possible to reply to your detractors in a straightforward and erstwhile manner while making them look like idiots?

I certainly do, but then again I have been dealing with trolls for more than 20 years. Calling someone an idiot or an asshole is nowhere near as effective as making them look like an idiot or an asshole from the content of your reply.

You consistently degrade yourself and any reputation you might have earned here from your breath of knowledge by your gutter language and childish vindictive replies. Most times you come across as an over educated 15 year old punk, you destroy your own credibility, no one else has to do it for you.

You seemingly have the knowledge to tear these ill-informed posts apart, but rather than do that you resort to calling people idiots and assholes, it brings you right down to their level instantly. Instead of being seen as a knowledgeable professional you become a foul mouthed child, and that is what readers come away with from your posts.

Keep it up, no skin off of my nose, I just thought you might care about how people see you and whether they find you as a trustworthy source.

385 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:35:11pm

re: #379 LudwigVanQuixote

Be well ludwig....Show grace...
Hope today finds you well...you snap so easily about science,,,,Show our lizards information and data not hate brother..
you are good people..be kind my friend

386 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:36:43pm

re: #384 ausador

And that did not work.

How many times did careful reasoned and oh so clever replies sway an evolution denier here?

Don't be silly.

The facts speak for themselves.

I always bring the facts.

The fact that so many can not wait to whine about me just shows how little their "side has."

As to my writing, my first posts on this thread were all very cordial.

I was not the one who started swinging. Don't be silly.

387 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:37:42pm

re: #385 HoosierHoops

Be well ludwig...Show grace...
Hope today finds you well...you snap so easily about science,,,Show our lizards information and data not hate brother..
you are good people..be kind my friend

Hoops you are good people too. Did you miss the first dozen or so posts I made tonight that were all about the facts.

I think you got onto this thread a little late and saw me responding to the troll.

Do me the kindness of scrolling up.

388 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:38:38pm

Gots to go for now. Be well.

389 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:39:21pm

re: #383 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you trying to be funny? Yes I get the point.

Everyone alive today will most likely be dead in 100 years.

You see it is shit like this that dismisses utterly the realities I am talking about that cause me to call people like you assholes.

Point taken, Ludwig. I'm not sure that what's at work is simply being an asshole. It may just be the way people feel overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of the issue. That's why I keep asking those questions about steps forward. By looking at AGW as a series of smaller puzzles it seems less daunting, and that helps me avoid despair and act.

390 cliffster  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:40:38pm

re: #385 HoosierHoops

Be well ludwig...Show grace...
Hope today finds you well...you snap so easily about science,,,Show our lizards information and data not hate brother..
you are good people..be kind my friend

I should take lessons from you. As there a cure for asshole?

391 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:42:00pm

re: #387 LudwigVanQuixote

Hoops you are good people too. Did you miss the first dozen or so posts I made tonight that were all about the facts.

I think you got onto this thread a little late and saw me responding to the troll.

Do me the kindness of scrolling up.

Thats right because the only adult response to someone questioning your statements is to call them an asshole...

///they dangled the bait and you bit, again, but then you do every time for the trolls don't you? It is so easy to make you look foolish and childish that they hardly have to really try do they?

392 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:50:12pm

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

I agree.

Ludwig, I really, really think that what would improve your posts if you had a tagline that indicated things people could actually do-- including issues they could vote on. That cap-and-trade is not the solution, for example, but what is, in your opinion? Lots of funding for alternative energy? Focus on the cars? What's the best way to reduce CO2? If it's cultural, if it's really just using less for every individual, then say that. If it's voting for people who will push alternative energy, say that.

I say this with all due respect; you know I'm one of the biggest supporters, but I think that you've become stymied by their refusal to move past the 'oh it's not really happening' snideness or the 'people are just making money off of it' whinges. I think you can actually leapfrog them by talking about solutions. I think everyone gets, on some level, that oil is bad, whether it's from an environmental standpoint or a foreign policy one. I think people would appreciate advocacy for actual issues they could act on or vote for.

Hope you actually get this.

Goodnight.

393 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:50:40pm

re: #391 ausador

He wasn't calling you the troll.

394 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 7:53:05pm

re: #393 Obdicut

He wasn't calling you the troll.

That was never in question, I was just trying to educate him on the proper response to the trolls instead of making himself look childish.

395 Digital Display  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 8:04:19pm

re: #390 cliffster

I should take lessons from you. As there a cure for asshole?

I one time slide my foot under a Ballers foot and snapped his ankle..
He was trash talking me all night and I hurt him bad....
I can never forgive myself for that....I hate some of the trash talking here...
I really really do..But I totally understand

396 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 8:21:14pm

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

That is a great idea.

Though the number of times I have written nuclear, solar, wind, smart grid and high energy density batteries is difficult for me to count.

In fact I typed that on this very thread.

The number of times I have typed out the political and economic benefits of doing these things, like creating tens of thousands of American jobs, staunching the flow of billions of dollars yearly to regimes that hate us, and oh yes clearing up many of the evils of the Mid East and Africa, is also difficult to count.

There it is yet again.

People are missing some salient points here.

1. With a real denier it does not matter. Denying the science is a religion for them. Al the facts data and truth in the world will not matter. The only thing we can do is point out that they are just as stupid, ignorant and silly as those who think the Earth is flat.

We used to do that with great relish here for the Evolution deniers.

We used to give them much more hell regularly than I give these trolls at my most cranky.

2. Some of the posters here made it personal a long time ago.

3. I was not the one to make it personal.

4. There is a real animus there. I am not going to lie that there are certain posters here who I detest utterly. They hate me and I detest them. So be it.

5. All of that is secondary or even tertiary. Let me repeat, if we get this wrong, billions die. We are currently getting it wrong. And no it is not the lame excuse of people will die anyway. This is people die and civilization as we know it collapses.

As long as people are not real about that, they are living in a delusion.

I personally do not mind the fact that it is human nature to deny bitter truths and tell ourselves comfortable lies, but this is one case where we can not afford such weakness and stupidity.

IF we fuck this up it is game over for our civilization.

I for one would prefer to keep America, and all of the advances of the last 500 years around.

397 lostlakehiker  Thu, Feb 25, 2010 11:03:11pm

re: #237 albusteve

I never said I wouldn't talk to you...you made that up...it was in fact the other way around...there is nothing wrong with me...you have posted the same disaster scenarios over and over, presumably to enlighten us fools...so what?...what does it all mean?...there is little to be done about it and in any case we get your point...we are not govts...we are not industry...we are just posters that will not have a nickels worth of difference, just like you...but keep posting your disasters if it makes you feel smarter than me

We DO make a difference. Opinions shape others' opinions, and eventually shape actions. What's more, we aren't facing an inevitably dire future. It should be bright. We just have to be sensible and get on the stick and do what it will take to make it bright.

Wind. Solar. Nuclear. Green buildings. Green efficiency in transport etc. LED lighting. With massive investment in all these good things now, and over the course of the next half century, we can get to where coal and oil are not needed in planet-stifling quantities. We can have our industrial civilization and skate by the edge of disaster. There will be a price to pay, but it will be quite bearable. Our abundant clean energy will compensate for some of the indignities the new climate will impose on us.

398 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 12:11:03am

re: #397 lostlakehiker

We DO make a difference. Opinions shape others' opinions, and eventually shape actions. What's more, we aren't facing an inevitably dire future. It should be bright. We just have to be sensible and get on the stick and do what it will take to make it bright.

Wind. Solar. Nuclear. Green buildings. Green efficiency in transport etc. LED lighting. With massive investment in all these good things now, and over the course of the next half century, we can get to where coal and oil are not needed in planet-stifling quantities. We can have our industrial civilization and skate by the edge of disaster. There will be a price to pay, but it will be quite bearable. Our abundant clean energy will compensate for some of the indignities the new climate will impose on us.

Excellent post.

399 SixDegrees  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 12:22:53am

re: #25 Thanos

I don't think it needs debunking - it's just more data. The paper isn't refuting modern AGW theory, it's talking about the possibility that even early MM changes from agriculture etc. could have staved off the normal glacial cycle. That theory is still in development, and it's not as widely accepted as is this century man made contributions to warming.

The article is mainly about a new theory of orbital configuration-linked climate which posits that orbit alone explains prolonged warming, without recourse to human influence over the last couple thousand years. The latter is difficult, at best, to reconcile with facts.

400 Super-ego  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 6:41:35am

I have a question.

The alarmist believe humans can stop or reverse so called AGW. If so, then wouldn't logic say doing that may cause AGC. How do they plan on warming back up?

Where is the temperature's happy medium between life and death?

401 MKELLY  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:30:25am

re: #108 goddamnedfrank

Your information notes that above "But when temperature levels go over 29 degrees Celsius (84.2 degrees Farenheit) for corn, ..." The average temperature in Pierre, South Dakota is 89 deg F in July. That is almost 5 deg above where corn should drop off steeply. Des Moines, Iowa average is 86 deg F in July again in the range for drop.

Why grow corn in areas that according the study we shouldn't?

Also this paragraph near the end of the study cited by LVG:
"An important caveat concerns our inability to account for CO2
concentrations. Plants use CO2 as an input in the photosynthesis
process, so increasing CO2 levels might spur plant growth and
yields. Yield declines stemming from warmer temperatures
therefore may be offset by CO2-fertilization. Although higher
CO2 concentrations may boost yields, the magnitude of the effect
is still debated. Long, et al. (12, 20) recently stressed that existing
laboratory studies and field experiments might overestimate this
effect. We cannot account for CO2 effects in regression analysis
of observed yields because CO2 concentrations quickly dissipate
throughout the atmosphere, leaving only a gently increasing time
trend, which is impossible to statistically disentangle from technological
change."

Studies that do not account for all factors that make plants grow should be eye'd with some amount of skepticism.

402 filetandrelease  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:58:31am

Another great post Charles. Keep the facts coming. Since battling AGW will take significant policy changes the battle has to be won in the arena of public opinion.

We need a nuclear grid. We need electric cars and high speed mag lev trains.

France and Japan are kicking our butt in developing nuclear energy.
And China is kicking our butt in developing the batteries of the furture.

403 Coracle  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:01:33am

re: #400 Super-ego

I have a question.

The alarmist believe humans can stop or reverse so called AGW. If so, then wouldn't logic say doing that may cause AGC. How do they plan on warming back up?

Heh. Since when does turning off your stove burner make ice form in your soup?

404 Super-ego  Sat, Feb 27, 2010 4:08:51am

re: #403 Coracle

Heh. Since when does turning off your stove burner make ice form in your soup?

Isn't that the point? Making temperatures cooler so the glaciers can refreeze and prevent massive flooding.

Did I miss something?

405 The Yankee  Sat, Feb 27, 2010 7:46:38am

This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 39 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
A Closer Look at the Eastman State Bar DecisionTaking a few minutes away from work things to read through the Eastman decision. As I'm sure many of you know, Eastman was my law school con law professor. I knew him pretty well because I was also running in ...
KGxvi
Yesterday
Views: 95 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1