The Chilean 8.8 monster quake was so powerful it actually shifted the Earth’s axis and shortened the length of a day.
The devastating earthquake in Chile that killed almost 700 people probably also shifted the Earth’s axis, say NASA scientists, permanently making days shorter by 1.26 microseconds. But since a microsecond is one-millionth of a second, you may not have noticed.
1 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:24:04pm |
I thought it was nano-seconds!
I’m going to have to do math again?
I was told there would be no math.
3 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:24:13pm |
I did. I was late for work by 1.13 milliseconds today. Wondered why?
4 |
badger1970 Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:25:09pm |
I wonder if a quake could actually lengthen a day?
| 5 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:25:16pm |
Boy, that has to be a serious shift in weight.
6 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:25:26pm |
Dies iræ! dies illa
Solvet sæclum in favilla:
Teste David cum Sibylla!
Quantus tremor est futurus,
Quando iudex est venturus,
Cuncta stricte discussurus!
Tuba, mirum spargens sonum
Per sepulchra regionum,
Coget omnes ante thronum.
Mors stupebit, et natura,
Cum resurget creatura,
Iudicanti responsura.
8 |
aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:25:42pm |
The log10 base of the richter scale can understate these things. An 8.8 is 100 times more powerful than the Haiti quake. My mind is having trouble wrapping around a magnitude like that…
12 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:28:30pm |
| 13 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:29:40pm |
re: #6 Cato the Elder
Dies iræ!
I recognize that because of crossword puzzles.
“Never studied…”
-Peter Venkman
| 14 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:30:22pm |
15 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:31:08pm |
| 16 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:32:33pm |
re: #8 aceofwhat?
The log10 base of the richter scale can understate these things. An 8.8 is 100 times more powerful than the Haiti quake. My mind is having trouble wrapping around a magnitude like that…
Momma Nature has a way of bitch slapping us in every conceivable direction. (And in some that haven’t even occurred to us.)
She’s working up something else right now…(snorting and hocking sound)
Hellooo! Yellowstone Caldera?
| 17 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:32:37pm |
short, sweet discussion and view of the subduction zone off the Chilean coast by NASA, if anyone’s interested…
18 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:32:54pm |
I read the article and I think the key word is “Probably”. I would honestly love to see the actual proof that this shortening of our day is true. NASA is one of the best science institutes out there but the word “probably” has me shaking my head in confusion. Am I alone in this observation an confusion?
| 19 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:33:33pm |
re: #16 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Momma Nature has a way of bitch slapping us in every conceivable direction. (And in some that haven’t even occurred to us.)
She’s working up something else right now…(snorting and hocking sound)
Hellooo! Yellowstone Caldera?
yeah, that Caldera phenomenon is a little creepy. it’d be a lot creepy but i spend a good deal of time pretending that it doesn’t really exist…
| 20 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:33:43pm |
21 |
keloyd Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:33:57pm |
MSNBC mentioned on the way to a commercial that the earth’s axis was nudged 3 inches as well. They didn’t say if it’s more straight or more slanted though.
Cato - I’m still pecking through that figuring out the 4/5 of the words I don’t remember …got a good translation? For the rest of you, Latin is elegant (at least in the form given to us as students, maybe not the slack jawed pigeon ghetto version spoken by illiterate peasants and provincials of the real world.) The grammar and orderly pronunciation of a language with letters custom made to fit - it’s like watching the motions of a Swiss watch.
22 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:34:08pm |
You know what this means?! A SHORTER WORK WEEK! HURRAY!
(if only)
23 |
lawhawk Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:34:19pm |
Are we in the US prepared for a 8.8 quake? In a word? No. Sure, we’ve got good building codes and new construction is likely going to fare well, but much of our infrastructure and many buildings were built before the modern seismic codes, and the damage would be extreme in some parts of the country that have not experienced major quakes in decades.
24 |
Bagua Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:34:25pm |
re: #12 Decatur Deb
Another AGW thread?
They need to release the data to prove the earth really moved and the days are shorter. I’ve been watching the clock at work all morning and the time is dragging on and on, if anything the day is LONGER not WARMER!
Er, I mean SHORTER! Freudian slip.
25 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:35:50pm |
I feel the earth move under my feet…
| 26 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:36:16pm |
re: #21 keloyd
studying Latin makes learning lots of other languages sooo much easier. including English.
27 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:37:28pm |
re: #23 lawhawk
Are we in the US prepared for a 8.8 quake? In a word? No. Sure, we’ve got good building codes and new construction is likely going to fare well, but much of our infrastructure and many buildings were built before the modern seismic codes, and the damage would be extreme in some parts of the country that have not experienced major quakes in decades.
I would say it depends on where. There’s fault lines all over this country except for down here where we just get 200 mph winds :p
Cali is better prepared for sure, than say Illinois.
| 28 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:37:31pm |
re: #19 Aceofwhat?
yeah, that Caldera phenomenon is a little creepy. it’d be a lot creepy but i spend a good deal of time pretending that it doesn’t really exist…
For every potential catastrophe, there is a cataclysm that can render it insignificant.
| 29 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:37:36pm |
re: #26 Aceofwhat?
studying Latin makes learning lots of other languages sooo much easier. including English.
Yup. Much appreciation for the 3 years of Latin I was able to take in high school.
30 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:37:49pm |
Knowledgeable people, Those Who Know®, will naturally recognize this event as a major milestone in the nefarious and long-running HAARP conspiracy.
The long-term objective, as spelled out in the top-secret Protocols of the Elderberries of Groom Lake, is to stop the rotation of the Earth entirely and leave our enemies in perpetual darkness, after which they will have to either starve or surrender themselves to our labor camps and organ farms.
Remain steadfast, Lizardoid minions. Our Place in the Sun is at hand.
31 |
darthstar Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:38:41pm |
After the 2004 quake, they reported a 4 inch rise in the water tables in Florida. Other. Side. Of. The. Fucking. Planet. That quake, too, slowed the planet.
It almost makes you wonder if Mother Earth is going to just get tired of the 6-7 billion human fleas on her ass some day and just shrug us all off in one big motion.
| 32 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:39:33pm |
re: #29 torrentprime
Yup. Much appreciation for the 3 years of Latin I was able to take in high school.
I did 5 in seminary, then John XIII said “Never mind”.
| 33 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:39:44pm |
re: #19 Aceofwhat?
May as well… Just mark my words.
We’re gonna find a way to cut through the nonsense and solve global warming, and we’re gonna find renewable sources of energy.
Birds are going to sing, the Rainforests will replenish, then?…
BANG! POW! ZOOM! And all of the other “Batman” words and there ain’t gonna be a damn thing we can do about it.
| 34 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:40:30pm |
re: #21 keloyd
Both of my children took five years of Latin.
36 |
SixDegrees Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:41:16pm |
re: #18 Dragon_Lady
I read the article and I think the key word is “Probably”. I would honestly love to see the actual proof that this shortening of our day is true. NASA is one of the best science institutes out there but the word “probably” has me shaking my head in confusion. Am I alone in this observation an confusion?
The explanation given by the Discover article is shoddy, at best. The earth’s axis may well have moved, but that doesn’t lead to a change in rotational speed. What they seem to be losing in translation is that the earth’s mass distribution changed - the earth effectively got a tiny bit smaller. Like a spinning skater pulling in her arms, this would cause the planet to spin a bit faster. Sounds like the shrinkage involved was on the order of 3 inches or so, but here the article becomes so ambiguous, it’s difficult to say what’s meant.
This doesn’t seem unreasonable. If I cared, I could calculate it, but I don’t, and I’m willing to take NASA’s word. My gut tells me it’s about right.
It should also be easily measurable, especially over a period of a few weeks. Microsecond timing accuracy is very easy to achieve, and the stars provide an excellent, “fixed” reference.
| 37 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:41:39pm |
1.26 microseconds… so over the course of 10 years, how much time is that?
1.26 x 365 = 459.90 microseconds
459.60 x 10 = 4596.00 microseconds. How much time is that anyway?
Is that right?
I’m with FBV, where’s the pie?
| 38 |
Bagua Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:41:50pm |
re: #33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My biggest fears are from the avian flu. I can’t imagine life without chickens.
| 39 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:41:57pm |
re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Both of my children took five years of Latin.
We can all go about reading the inscriptions on public buildings.
| 40 |
Velvet Elvis Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:42:10pm |
So I’m going to turn 40 that much sooner?
*sigh*
| 42 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:42:37pm |
re: #28 Decatur Deb
For every potential catastrophe, there is a cataclysm that can render it insignificant.
That’s it! Always look on the bright side of life! lol
| 43 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:42:49pm |
re: #30 Shiplord Kirel
C’mon y’all! Ding that!
| 45 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:43:21pm |
re: #32 Decatur Deb
I did 5 in seminary, then John XIII said “Never mind”.
LOL. I took mine in the late 80s, which made it even less socially acceptable.
| 46 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:43:44pm |
re: #36 SixDegrees
The explanation given by the Discover article is shoddy, at best. The earth’s axis may well have moved, but that doesn’t lead to a change in rotational speed. What they seem to be losing in translation is that the earth’s mass distribution changed - the earth effectively got a tiny bit smaller. Like a spinning skater pulling in her arms, this would cause the planet to spin a bit faster. Sounds like the shrinkage involved was on the order of 3 inches or so, but here the article becomes so ambiguous, it’s difficult to say what’s meant.
This doesn’t seem unreasonable. If I cared, I could calculate it, but I don’t, and I’m willing to take NASA’s word. My gut tells me it’s about right.
It should also be easily measurable, especially over a period of a few weeks. Microsecond timing accuracy is very easy to achieve, and the stars provide an excellent, “fixed” reference.
Well, that helps. Somewhat. I appreciate your insight.
| 47 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:44:19pm |
re: #33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
May as well… Just mark my words.
We’re gonna find a way to cut through the nonsense and solve global warming, and we’re gonna find renewable sources of energy.
Birds are going to sing, the Rainforests will replenish, then?…
BANG! POW! ZOOM! And all of the other “Batman” words and there ain’t gonna be a damn thing we can do about it.
Seriously. I’m buying a Hummer.
| 48 |
keloyd Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:44:33pm |
Ace of what - True! Mostly! I studied French and Latin back in the day, then a decade later staff for a few years who spoke Spanish, and little English. When I tried communicating in broken, pigeon Spanish, they got Latin or French words with a bad Spanish accent fairly often.
For those of you playing at home, Cato’s poem/hymn has its own Wiki page.
| 49 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:44:39pm |
re: #37 marjoriemoon
A nano-second happens every thirty-something years.
50 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:45:19pm |
re: #21 keloyd
Centurion: What is this then? Romanes eunt domus, “People called Romanes they go the house”?
Brian: It-it says, “Romans, go home”!
Centurion: No, it doesn’t! What’s Latin for “Roman”? [grabs Brian’s ear] Come on, come on!
Brian: Romanus!
Centurion: Goes like?
Brian: Annus!
Centurion: Vocative plural of annus is…?
Brian: Anni?
Centurion: [writes] Romani. And eunt? What is eunt?
Brian: “Go”! Let-
Centurion: Conjugate the verb “to go”.
Brian: Ire; eo, is, it, imus, itis, eunt!
Centurion: So eunt is…?
Brian: Third person plural, present indicative. “They go!”
Centurion: But “Romans, go home” is an order, so you must use the…?
Brian: The… imperative!
Centurion: Which is…?
Brian: I!
Centurion: [twisting Brian’s ear] How many Romans?
Brian: [yelling] I.. Plural, plural! Ite, ite!
Centurion: [writing] Ite. Domus? Nominative? But “go home”, it is motion towards, isn’t it, boy?
Brian: Dative, sir!
[The centurion promptly draws his swords and presses it against Brian’s throat. Brian yells:] No, not dative! Not the dative, sir! No! The… accusative, accusative! Domum, sir, ad domum!
Centurion: Except that domus takes the…?
Brian: The locative, sir!
Centurion: Which is?
Brian: Domum!
Centurion: [writing] Domum… -um [sheathing his sword] Understand?
[Brian nods eagerly]
Now, write it out a hundred times!
Brian: Yes, sir, thank you, sir! Hail Caesar!
Centurion: Hail Caesar. If it’s not done by sunrise, I’ll cut your balls off!
Brian: Oh, thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar and everything, sir!
| 51 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:45:45pm |
re: #42 marjoriemoon
That’s it! Always look on the bright side of life! lol
“For life is quite absurd
And death’s the final word
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin
Enjoy it - it’s your last chance anyhow.
So…always look on the bright side of death
Just before you draw your terminal breath “
I lack the self control to pass up a Monty Python reference. Freely admitted.
| 52 |
darthstar Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:45:47pm |
re: #38 Bagua
My biggest fears are from the avian flu. I can’t imagine life without chickens.
You and Gonzo alike.
| 55 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:46:42pm |
re: #21 keloyd
MSNBC mentioned on the way to a commercial that the earth’s axis was nudged 3 inches as well. They didn’t say if it’s more straight or more slanted though.
Cato - I’m still pecking through that figuring out the 4/5 of the words I don’t remember …got a good translation? For the rest of you, Latin is elegant (at least in the form given to us as students, maybe not the slack jawed pigeon ghetto version spoken by illiterate peasants and provincials of the real world.) The grammar and orderly pronunciation of a language with letters custom made to fit - it’s like watching the motions of a Swiss watch.
A literal translation:
The day of wrath, that day
Will dissolve the world in ashes
As foretold by David and the sibyl!
How much tremor there will be,
when the judge will come,
investigating everything strictly!
The trumpet, scattering a wondrous sound
through the sepulchres of the regions,
will summon all before the throne.
Death and nature will marvel,
when the creature arises,
to respond to the Judge.
| 56 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:46:48pm |
re: #47 Aceofwhat?
Seriously. I’m buying a Hummer.
Great. Another heavy object to fall out of the sky.
| 57 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:46:58pm |
re: #53 MandyManners
Isn’t that illegal in most jurisdictions?
Only a crime against fashion, my dear.
;)
| 58 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:47:19pm |
re: #53 MandyManners
Isn’t that illegal in most jurisdictions?
Only if you have to go out and purchase it.
| 59 |
Bagua Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:47:24pm |
We are slowing rapidly, consider that we are already losing 2.68 microseconds as a result of the 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake.
| 60 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:48:09pm |
re: #48 keloyd
Ace of what - True! Mostly! I studied French and Latin back in the day, then a decade later staff for a few years who spoke Spanish, and little English. When I tried communicating in broken, pigeon Spanish, they got Latin or French words with a bad Spanish accent fairly often.
For those of you playing at home, Cato’s poem/hymn has its own Wiki page.
heh. i actually did it backwards. lived in Belgium while younger, learned French. then i took Latin in high school because acing AP French didn’t get me out of the requirement for additional language classes. good thing, in hindsight.
61 |
Kragar Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:48:18pm |
Today’s word in earth science is Verneshot
Connection with mass-extinctions
Verneshots have been proposed as a causal mechanism explaining the statistically unlikely contemporaneous occurrence of continental flood basalts, mass extinctions, and “impact signals” (such as planar deformation features, shocked quartz, and iridium anomalies) traditionally considered definitive evidence of hypervelocity impact events.[1]The verneshot theory suggests that mantle plumes may cause heating and the buildup of carbon dioxide gas underneath continental lithosphere. If continental rifting occurs above this location, an explosive release of the built up gas may occur, potentially sending out a column of crust and mantle into a globally dispersive, super-stratospheric trajectory. It is unclear whether such a column could stay coherent through this process, or whether the force of this process would result in it shattering into much smaller pieces before impacting. The pipe through which the magma and gas had travelled would collapse during this process, sending a shockwave at hypersonic velocity that would deform the surrounding craton.
| 62 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:48:55pm |
re: #53 MandyManners
Isn’t that illegal in most jurisdictions?
Sure, but when the Caldera blows, you’ll be asking for a ride!
63 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:49:00pm |
To everything - turn, turn, turn
There is a season - turn, turn, tur
| 64 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:49:02pm |
Meanwhile, I just finished watching Salieri finish off Mozart.
Which, of course, is a slur on Salieri. He killed Mozart the way Hillary murdered Vince Foster.
But “Amadeus” is still a fun ride.
| 65 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:49:17pm |
As the time for mass approached, the first altar boy arrived at the back of the church, put on a cassock and washed his hands carefully, saying “Lavabo inter innocentes manus meas”. The second boy barely madi ti in time to splah in the sink and say “Asperges mei”. The last kid, runiing late, dashed past the sink and said “Vidi aquam”.
| 66 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:49:34pm |
| 69 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:50:42pm |
re: #65 Decatur Deb
As the time for mass approached, the first altar boy arrived at the back of the church, put on a cassock and washed his hands carefully, saying “Lavabo inter innocentes manus meas”. The second boy barely madi ti in time to splah in the sink and say “Asperges mei”. The last kid, runiing late, dashed past the sink and said “Vidi aquam”.
Damn it; I can *almost* do that without needing teh google.
| 70 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:50:51pm |
re: #59 Bagua
We are slowing rapidly, consider that we are already losing 2.68 microseconds as a result of the 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake.
Yeah and from everything the geologist are saying good old sunny So. Cal’s on the top of the list for the next big one. Good thing RWC and I stay prepared and have done for a long time now.
| 71 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:51:15pm |
re: #51 Aceofwhat?
“For life is quite absurd
And death’s the final word
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin
Enjoy it - it’s your last chance anyhow.So…always look on the bright side of death
Just before you draw your terminal breath “I lack the self control to pass up a Monty Python reference. Freely admitted.
hehe…
The Galaxy Song is still probably my fav. There was a fellow at our Italian Renn faire who used to dress as Galileo and go through an astronomy lesson in a big tent which was much fun. He ended the show singing The Galaxy Song. Really looked like him too!
72 |
Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:52:22pm |
re: #50 Mad Al-Jaffee
You just have to wonder how much abuse of students they saw in school. They riffed on it constantly in their material.
I still think one of their best segues was in _The Meaning of Life_ where it jumped from the masters vs students rugby game straight to a World War I battlefield. I also see that as a riff on the famous “The battle of Waterloo was won on the fields of Eton” quote.
| 74 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:53:32pm |
re: #69 torrentprime
It would be easier for you if I could type.
| 75 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:54:00pm |
re: #71 marjoriemoon
But the animation montage in the middle pisses me off.
76 |
Political Atheist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:54:23pm |
My friends from NYC noticed the shorter day right away!
///
| 77 |
darthstar Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:55:26pm |
It doesn’t matter…the earthquakes, the tsunamis, the hurricanes, the rapture…none of it…the Breitbartpocalypse is less than two weeks away.
| 78 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:55:34pm |
re: #73 marjoriemoon
I don’t think it would fly on “Big Government”.
| 79 |
keloyd Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:55:37pm |
Oaktree-
It just shows how subjective is the concept of “abuse”. If you live in a time and region the world is a hard place, the kids need that extra dose of blood and iron to survive.
| 80 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:56:14pm |
Ya knooow, we also have Mammoth Mountain that has been showing signs of waking up in the near future… Mammoth Lake has had an increase of carbon dioxide being put out in the last few years. A whole grove of trees has been killed on the shores of the lake. It’s awfully close to L.A. only a few hours out, not to mention Big Bear… Both are slumbering calderas… Hummm.
| 81 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:56:53pm |
re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
But the animation montage in the middle pisses me off.
No way, the birthing thing? Why?
| 83 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:57:19pm |
| 84 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:57:22pm |
re: #71 marjoriemoon
hehe…
The Galaxy Song is still probably my fav. There was a fellow at our Italian Renn faire who used to dress as Galileo and go through an astronomy lesson in a big tent which was much fun. He ended the show singing The Galaxy Song. Really looked like him too!
[Video]
Can we have your liver?
| 85 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:58:01pm |
86 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:58:07pm |
re: #8 aceofwhat?
The log10 base of the richter scale can understate these things. An 8.8 is 100 times more powerful than the Haiti quake. My mind is having trouble wrapping around a magnitude like that…
I’ve been in something the size of the Haiti quake. I cannot imagine what an 8.8 is like.
| 87 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:58:57pm |
re: #81 marjoriemoon
Simply because I hate it. That’s all.
Despise it.
My least favorite MP thingy ever.
| 88 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:59:32pm |
re: #72 oaktree
You just have to wonder how much abuse of students they saw in school. They riffed on it constantly in their material.
I still think one of their best segues was in _The Meaning of Life_ where it jumped from the masters vs students rugby game straight to a World War I battlefield. I also see that as a riff on the famous “The battle of Waterloo was won on the fields of Eton” quote.
I never thought of that! True.
What about the sex lesson where John Cleese, as the professor, has sex with his wife in the classroom? I think the Meaning of Life, but I get them mixed up. Not sure how that fits in with your theory, though lol
| 89 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:59:53pm |
re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist
I’ve been in something the size of the Haiti quake. I cannot imagine what an 8.8 is like.
Actually, i’m bored enough at work that i’m fiddling with the equation on scrap paper. I think it’s closer to 200x as powerful.
| 90 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:00:47pm |
re: #88 marjoriemoon
I never thought of that! True.
What about the sex lesson where John Cleese, as the professor, has sex with his wife in the classroom? I think the Meaning of Life, but I get them mixed up. Not sure how that fits in with your theory, though lol
Yeah, that’s from the Meaning of Life.
| 91 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:01:15pm |
re: #80 Dragon_Lady
I had to spend the night up at Mammoth Lakes. Went out in the middle of the night, drove a bit out of town, laid back in the grass (yeah, was in the summer) and watched the stars.
I swear, they were right there.
What a beautiful evening it was.
| 92 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:01:36pm |
re: #64 Cato the Elder
Meanwhile, I just finished watching Salieri finish off Mozart.
Which, of course, is a slur on Salieri. He killed Mozart the way Hillary murdered Vince Foster.
But “Amadeus” is still a fun ride.
It’s a fabulous movie.
It’s also been adapted as a fun Simpsons episode, with Bart as Mozart, Lisa as Salieri, and Nelson as the young Beethoven.
| 93 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:01:52pm |
re: #66 Aceofwhat?
I’m definitely buying a Hummer.
If I had a Hummer,
I’d hum ‘er in the morning,
I’d hum ‘er in the evening,
All over this land…
| 94 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:02:09pm |
OT: the transcript from McDonald v Chicago is posted now.
I’m not a lawyer, nor do i aspire to be…but there are 9 extremely sharp people on that bench and i love watching them go back and forth with each other and the solicitors.
| 95 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:02:42pm |
re: #91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I had to spend the night up at Mammoth Lakes. Went out in the middle of the night, drove a bit out of town, laid back in the grass (yeah, was in the summer) and watched the stars.
I swear, they were right there.
What a beautiful evening it was.
yep. went bouldering in Joshua Tree a while back. slept outside. same exact feeling.
| 96 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:02:53pm |
re: #89 Aceofwhat?
Actually, i’m bored enough at work that i’m fiddling with the equation on scrap paper. I think it’s closer to 200x as powerful.
Lets just pray that we here in Sunny So Cal don’t get slammed with one that size… 7.1 was bad enough! Literally shook us outta bed… Not fun at all! We didn’t see our cats for almost three days afterward and it too quite awhile to clean up.
| 97 |
Political Atheist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:03:00pm |
re: #80 Dragon_Lady
This Summer-Shake & Bake bay!
| 98 |
Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:03:00pm |
re: #79 keloyd
I don’t buy that. I’ve just seen too many occasions involving students where a “character building” event being carried out by a superior (be it faculty or fellow students in a supervisory capacity) is more of a power trip by the controller than a true attempt at education.
I spent 10+ years doing volunteer work for a social fraternity. A lot of hazing activity is hidden under the veneer of claiming that it builds character or helps the pledges come together as a group. If teaching how to deal with adversity and challenges are the goal, there are practically always alternative routes to follow that are much more positively oriented.
| 99 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:03:32pm |
re: #88 marjoriemoon
I never thought of that! True.
What about the sex lesson where John Cleese, as the professor, has sex with his wife in the classroom? I think the Meaning of Life, but I get them mixed up. Not sure how that fits in with your theory, though lol
There’s a story in the Talmud where a student hides under his master’s bed, because he wants to know how a Torah scholar makes love to his wife. (He gets caught and removed.)
| 100 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:04:00pm |
re: #64 Cato the Elder
Meanwhile, I just finished watching Salieri finish off Mozart.
Which, of course, is a slur on Salieri. He killed Mozart the way Hillary murdered Vince Foster.
They had ACORN hit-teams back then?
| 101 |
Political Atheist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:04:32pm |
re: #97 Rightwingconspirator
PIMF! Shake & Bake Baby!
| 102 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:04:38pm |
re: #97 Rightwingconspirator
This Summer-Shake & Bake bay!
??? Where??? Enlighten me, I’m a little off right now…
| 103 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:04:51pm |
re: #79 keloyd
Same rationalization Kevin Bacon’s character used in “Sleepers”.
| 104 |
Political Atheist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:05:51pm |
re: #102 Dragon_Lady
Here in SoCal in the Summer.
| 105 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:06:17pm |
re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist
There’s a story in the Talmud where a student hides under his master’s bed, because he wants to know how a Torah scholar makes love to his wife. (He gets caught and removed.)
Ack! Pretty creepy, that (no offense to any voyeurs out there).
| 106 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:06:55pm |
re: #104 Rightwingconspirator
Ahhh. Where else would we go? Unless my Bro in L.V. wouldn’t mind a visit?
| 107 |
Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:06:59pm |
re: #88 marjoriemoon
I see that as a piece of solid satire. Given how horny teenage boys are supposed to be, can you see them acting all bored, note passing, and acting out while a professor actually lectured and demonstrated sex? Or that if they really did educate like that then all the “forbidden fruit” attraction of it would go out of it and the subject would then become much more mundane.
I also expect that a lot of the schools had a heavy Church of England aspect to them - so bringing some explicit sexual references into it would be a heavy prod at them as well.
| 108 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:07:13pm |
re: #98 oaktree
I don’t buy that. I’ve just seen too many occasions involving students where a “character building” event being carried out by a superior (be it faculty or fellow students in a supervisory capacity) is more of a power trip by the controller than a true attempt at education.
I spent 10+ years doing volunteer work for a social fraternity. A lot of hazing activity is hidden under the veneer of claiming that it builds character or helps the pledges come together as a group. If teaching how to deal with adversity and challenges are the goal, there are practically always alternative routes to follow that are much more positively oriented.
My elementary school was run by nuns and a one-legged veteran of the First Cav. We learned to tough it out. It’s a hoot to think of a ten year-old telling a whining buddy: “Go see the chaplain and get your TS card punched”.
TS card= 1950 Army slang for Tough Shit form.
| 109 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:07:56pm |
re: #101 Rightwingconspirator
PIMF! Shake & Bake Baby!
“Hi, I’m Ricky Bobby. If you don’t chew Big Red, then Fuck You.”
| 110 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:08:46pm |
re: #105 marjoriemoon
Ack! Pretty creepy, that (no offense to any voyeurs out there).
You’re far too nice. Offending voyeurs, IMHO, is not a practice for which an apology is required…
| 111 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:08:48pm |
re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist
There’s a story in the Talmud where a student hides under his master’s bed, because he wants to know how a Torah scholar makes love to his wife. (He gets caught and removed.)
Is that what they call master baiting?
| 112 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:09:52pm |
re: #111 Spare O’Lake
Is that what they call master baiting?
(Said to a friend walking by my cube as this was posted)
You see, this is why I come here.
| 113 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:10:02pm |
re: #107 oaktree
I see that as a piece of solid satire. Given how horny teenage boys are supposed to be, can you see them acting all bored, note passing, and acting out while a professor actually lectured and demonstrated sex? Or that if they really did educate like that then all the “forbidden fruit” attraction of it would go out of it and the subject would then become much more mundane.
I also expect that a lot of the schools had a heavy Church of England aspect to them - so bringing some explicit sexual references into it would be a heavy prod at them as well.
Good comments! Much agreed.
| 114 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:10:05pm |
re: #110 Aceofwhat?
You’re far too nice. Offending voyeurs, IMHO, is not a practice for which an apology is required…
That’s why they call em voyeurs… ;-)
| 115 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:10:57pm |
re: #112 torrentprime
(Said to a friend walking by my cube as this was posted)
You see, this is why I come here.
Ya get Monteverdi and putz jokes.
| 116 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:11:06pm |
re: #110 Aceofwhat?
You’re far too nice. Offending voyeurs, IMHO, is not a practice for which an apology is required…
Hey dude, whatever floats yer boat!
| 117 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:11:28pm |
| 118 |
Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:11:50pm |
re: #108 Decatur Deb
My elementary school was run by nuns and a one-legged veteran of the First Cav. We learned to tough it out. It’s a hoot to think of a ten year-old telling a whining buddy: “Go see the chaplain and get your TS card punched”.
TS card= 1950 Army slang for Tough Shit form.
It’s not all power trips and a black/white issue. There are things to be toughed out, and there are things were it has crossed the line and more harm is being done than good.
I think we can both be right on this issue. Though in the example of the rugby game in _The Meaning of Life_ is there that much redemption in a game where a group of adults utterly crush a bunch of 9-12 year-olds in a physical game. (And where it’s made clear that being forced to play in that game is a punishment?)
| 119 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:12:02pm |
re: #111 Spare O’Lake
Is that what they call master baiting?
You are too funny! Upding for that one!
| 120 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:12:18pm |
re: #116 marjoriemoon
Hey dude, whatever floats yer boat!
That probably would read as an endorsement of Peeping Toms then wouldn’t it. So much for me trying to be clever.
| 121 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:13:14pm |
| 122 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:14:16pm |
re: #118 oaktree
Sorry. Opportunities to “toughen people up” often masquerade as a reason to bully someone weaker.
| 123 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:15:52pm |
re: #118 oaktree
It’s not all power trips and a black/white issue. There are things to be toughed out, and there are things were it has crossed the line and more harm is being done than good.
I think we can both be right on this issue. Though in the example of the rugby game in _The Meaning of Life_ is there that much redemption in a game where a group of adults utterly crush a bunch of 9-12 year-olds in a physical game. (And where it’s made clear that being forced to play in that game is a punishment?)
Not familiar with that movie or game scene. Considering the young adulthood many English men of the 1914 and 1939 cohorts faced, it might have been “Good Training”.
124 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:16:24pm |
The devastating earthquake in Chile that killed almost 700 people probably also shifted the Earth’s axis, say NASA scientists, permanently making days shorter by 1.26 microseconds. But since a microsecond is one-millionth of a second, you may not have noticed.
Big time is ripping us off!
| 125 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:16:30pm |
BBL, gotta headache coming on. Gonna go lay down. Keep Laughing everyone!
| 126 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:16:49pm |
Gotta jet… You guys are funny.
I’m still trying to figure out what to do about the 1.26 microseconds I’ll be missing each day.
And there it goessss!
| 127 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:16:53pm |
re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Sorry. Opportunities to “toughen people up” often masquerade as a reason to bully someone weaker.
Some religious right “leaders” have defended anti-gay bullying as societal self-correction, that it serves a valid purpose in educating the crowd on how people “should” act and be (ie, don’t be gay).
| 128 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:17:26pm |
re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Sorry. Opportunities to “toughen people up” often masquerade as a reason to bully someone weaker.
in addition, i am not interested in others’ “toughening my kids up”. I’ll do that myself, thankyouverymuch…i trust someone else to strike that balance correctly like i trust Andy Dick to stay off the sauce…
| 129 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:18:18pm |
re: #127 torrentprime
Some religious right “leaders” have defended anti-gay bullying as societal self-correction, that it serves a valid purpose in educating the crowd on how people “should” act and be (ie, don’t be gay).
You’re kidding. someone said that out loud?
130 |
cliffster Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:18:19pm |
| 131 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:18:43pm |
| 132 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:19:35pm |
re: #129 Aceofwhat?
You’re kidding. someone said that out loud?
I’m trying to find the email now; I want to back that up with a linky.
| 133 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:19:50pm |
re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Sorry. Opportunities to “toughen people up” often masquerade as a reason to bully someone weaker.
Any idiot knows that.
| 134 |
cliffster Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:20:26pm |
re: #127 torrentprime
Some religious right “leaders” have defended anti-gay bullying as societal self-correction, that it serves a valid purpose in educating the crowd on how people “should” act and be (ie, don’t be gay).
| 135 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:20:37pm |
| 136 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:21:17pm |
SPLC: Rage on the Right
The radical right caught fire last year, as broad-based populist anger at political, demographic and economic changes in America ignited an explosion of new extremist groups and activism across the nation.Hate groups stayed at record levels — almost 1,000 — despite the total collapse of the second largest neo-Nazi group in America. Furious anti-immigrant vigilante groups soared by nearly 80%, adding some 136 new groups during 2009. And, most remarkably of all, so-called “Patriot” groups — militias and other organizations that see the federal government as part of a plot to impose “one-world government” on liberty-loving Americans — came roaring back after years out of the limelight.
| 137 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:22:26pm |
re: #136 Killgore Trout
According to the latest annual count by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), these groups rose again slightly in 2009 — from 926 in 2008 to 932 last year — despite the demise of a key neo-Nazi group. The American National Socialist Workers Party, which had 35 chapters in 28 states, imploded shortly after the October 2008 arrest of founder Bill White for making threats against his enemies.
At the same time, the number of what the SPLC designates as “nativist extremist” groups — organizations that go beyond mere advocacy of restrictive immigration policy to actually confront or harass suspected immigrants — jumped from 173 groups in 2008 to 309 last year. Virtually all of these vigilante groups have appeared since the spring of 2005.
| 138 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:23:28pm |
re: #129 Aceofwhat?
You’re kidding. someone said that out loud?
I’ve certainly heard objections to anti-bullying programs on the grounds that it’s an attempt to force political correctness on the kids, and the issue of homophobia comes up routinely in that debate.
| 139 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:25:08pm |
re: #128 Aceofwhat?
in addition, i am not interested in others’ “toughening my kids up”. I’ll do that myself, thankyouverymuch…i trust someone else to strike that balance correctly like i trust Andy Dick to stay off the sauce…
You mean like when the choirmaster tells your kid to suck it up?
(NTTAWW choirmasters)
| 140 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:25:23pm |
re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist
I’ve certainly heard objections to anti-bullying programs on the grounds that it’s an attempt to force political correctness on the kids, and the issue of homophobia comes up routinely in that debate.
Here’s what the Christian Action League has to say.
| 141 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:27:05pm |
re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist
I’ve certainly heard objections to anti-bullying programs on the grounds that it’s an attempt to force political correctness on the kids, and the issue of homophobia comes up routinely in that debate.
Ugh. How disgusting to go there.
Bullying is to political correctness as coffee is to marsupial turds. 99.9% unrelated.
| 142 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:27:21pm |
re: #139 Spare O’Lake
You mean like when the choirmaster tells your kid to suck it up?
(NTTAWW choirmasters)
I once read a letter to a teacher’s board by a woman teaching in a Catholic school. She was worried, because the choirmaster (as it happens), was, she felt, verbally abusive to the children, yelling at them, insulting them, and using obscene language, and when challenged, he would say that they needed to learn to imitate Jesus, who didn’t complain on the cross.
Old School.
| 144 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:29:21pm |
re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist
Here’s what the Christian Action League has to say.
Well…are they accurate in saying that the bill under consideration only protects enumerated classes of kids?
If so, they’re right.
If not, they’re wrong.
seems straightforward, if we can figure that last part out.
| 146 |
cliffster Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:31:04pm |
re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist
I once read a letter to a teacher’s board by a woman teaching in a Catholic school. She was worried, because the choirmaster (as it happens), was, she felt, verbally abusive to the children, yelling at them, insulting them, and using obscene language, and when challenged, he would say that they needed to learn to imitate Jesus, who didn’t complain on the cross.
“My God, why have you forsaken me??” That’s not complaining?
| 147 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:31:22pm |
| 148 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:31:58pm |
re: #132 torrentprime
I’m trying to find the email now; I want to back that up with a linky.
I found one of the politicians I remember reading about, but not the RR leader.
(Not that I think you’re all waiting breathlessly for my link, but I don’t want to post something like I did wo/backup)
| 149 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:32:03pm |
re: #144 Aceofwhat?
Well…are they accurate in saying that the bill under consideration only protects enumerated classes of kids?
If so, they’re right.
If not, they’re wrong.
seems straightforward, if we can figure that last part out.
Just grabbed them as an example. I can try to look it up further, although I have yet to find a case where the rule in fact, protects only enumerated classes of kids. That’s their way of saying that no one’s going to hassle their child for being straight, so we don’t need to include sexual orientation.
| 150 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:33:26pm |
re: #146 cliffster
“My God, why have you forsaken me??” That’s not complaining?
“I’m not complaining, I’m just asking…”
| 151 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:34:08pm |
re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist
I once read a letter to a teacher’s board by a woman teaching in a Catholic school. She was worried, because the choirmaster (as it happens), was, she felt, verbally abusive to the children, yelling at them, insulting them, and using obscene language, and when challenged, he would say that they needed to learn to imitate Jesus, who didn’t complain on the cross.
Old School.
Strangely, the volunteer civilian music director was the toughest teacher in our school, harder than the nuns or military instructors. Old school Italian. We had physical punishment, but in a very well-ordered due-process. I can only remember a nun losing it once in 5 yers.
152 |
Taqyia2Me Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:34:56pm |
re: #146 cliffster
“My God, why have you forsaken me??” That’s not complaining?
“It is finished” as He breathed his last.
| 153 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:35:37pm |
re: #144 Aceofwhat?
Well…are they accurate in saying that the bill under consideration only protects enumerated classes of kids?
If so, they’re right.
If not, they’re wrong.
seems straightforward, if we can figure that last part out.
nah, they’re never right about that stuff. This bill, like others, protects everyone from issues arising from sexual orientation or gender identity. Period. The CAL and similar just like to pretend that orientation is only the gays (and the pedophiles and the bestial… n/m. I’ll just get angry again)
| 154 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:35:40pm |
re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist
Just grabbed them as an example. I can try to look it up further, although I have yet to find a case where the rule in fact, protects only enumerated classes of kids. That’s their way of saying that no one’s going to hassle their child for being straight, so we don’t need to include sexual orientation.
I’m sympathetic to part of the argument, which is that if a bullying law is already on the books, why are we redoing one with specific enumerations…but then i’m not a big fan of hate crime laws, either. Make an anti-bullying law that focuses on bullying. Enumeration seems like (a) a waste of time and (b) mud in the water…but I certainly agree that their website goes waaaay too far in ascribing blame to the “homosexual agenda”.
they should stick to the fact that enumeration is wholly unnecessary to the construction of an anti-bullying construct.
| 155 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:36:21pm |
re: #153 torrentprime
nah, they’re never right about that stuff. This bill, like others, protects everyone from issues arising from sexual orientation or gender identity. Period. The CAL and similar just like to pretend that orientation is only the gays (and the pedophiles and the bestial… n/m. I’ll just get angry again)
why not just protect everyone from bullying?
156 |
AlexRogan Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:36:37pm |
re: #80 Dragon_Lady
Ya knooow, we also have Mammoth Mountain that has been showing signs of waking up in the near future… Mammoth Lake has had an increase of carbon dioxide being put out in the last few years. A whole grove of trees has been killed on the shores of the lake. It’s awfully close to L.A. only a few hours out, not to mention Big Bear… Both are slumbering calderas… Hummm.
Wasn’t that part of the plot to Dante’s Peak?
| 157 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:38:22pm |
For those who are following the doctored ACORN tapes Patterico has a “defense” posted called “Debunking Some Emerging ACORN Liberal Myths”. After a quick skim it looks more like a denial rather than a fact checking but some of you might want to check it out.
| 158 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:40:47pm |
re: #157 Killgore Trout
For those who are following the doctored ACORN tapes Patterico has a “defense” posted called “Debunking Some Emerging ACORN Liberal Myths”. After a quick skim it looks more like a denial rather than a fact checking but some of you might want to check it out.
Oh, OK.
| 159 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:41:15pm |
re: #155 Aceofwhat?
why not just protect everyone from bullying?
Right - I mean, we have a Constitution: why did we need those civil rights laws? Isn’t everyone equal already?
/
We need to remember that laws depend partially on who enforces them. Without mention of what kinds of bullying “count”, anti-gay bullying can be dismissed as acceptable or, at least, not proscribed, and those who need protection still don’t get it. Same with racial bullying, religious, etc.
| 160 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:41:33pm |
re: #155 Aceofwhat?
why not just protect everyone from bullying?
Yeah, and while your at it, how about some protection from wives who nag their husbands?
*steps away from open window*
| 162 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:44:33pm |
re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh, OK.
It looks really weak to me. They might have something on the claim that O’keekfe was posing as a concerned boyfriend and not a pimp. I’ve seen the claim repeated but I don’t know the source of the information. However, It’s pretty clear that the tapes are substantially edited and I suspect Breitbart is going to find himself in legal trouble before this is over. You just can’t frame innocent people for crimes. I suspect some prosecutors are looking into this.
| 163 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:45:13pm |
re: #157 Killgore Trout
For those who are following the doctored ACORN tapes Patterico has a “defense” posted called “Debunking Some Emerging ACORN Liberal Myths”. After a quick skim it looks more like a denial rather than a fact checking but some of you might want to check it out.
I took a quick glance. I don’t know if the ‘liberal myths’ are correct or not, but he seems to be refuting them with transcripts that he claims to be from the unedited tapes. I would like proof of that claim. If the transcripts are really from unaltered tapes, that is VERY different from if they’re not.
| 164 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:46:06pm |
re: #159 torrentprime
Right - I mean, we have a Constitution: why did we need those civil rights laws? Isn’t everyone equal already?
/We need to remember that laws depend partially on who enforces them. Without mention of what kinds of bullying “count”, anti-gay bullying can be dismissed as acceptable or, at least, not proscribed, and those who need protection still don’t get it. Same with racial bullying, religious, etc.
correctly describing the behavior that is now forbidden is unrelated to a discussion of its motivations.
If bullying does not count in an instance, and we think it ought to, then clearly we need to improve our definition of the behavior we wish to ban.
the motivating factor is irrelevant when the behavior to be banned is aptly spelled out in the legislation, because the behavior leaves no wiggle room for discernment.
you’re solving the problem the hard way. ban the behavior and the motivation becomes impossible to factor.
| 165 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:46:12pm |
I was horribly bullied in elementary school. It had nothing to do with race, religion, gayness. I was short and nerdy and four-eyed and got picked on.
The teachers and my parents didn’t help by telling me “when they laugh at you, just laugh with them!”
Just thinking about it now, I hate them all.
| 166 |
cliffster Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:48:05pm |
It’s a noble cause. I don’t think you’ll ever get rid of bullying or even really reduce it.
| 167 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:48:23pm |
re: #157 Killgore Trout
For those who are following the doctored ACORN tapes Patterico has a “defense” posted called “Debunking Some Emerging ACORN Liberal Myths”. After a quick skim it looks more like a denial rather than a fact checking but some of you might want to check it out.
Mythology is highly underrated these days.
What if the Greeks had debunked all their myths?
How boring would that have been?
Why can’t we enjoy a good myth anymore?
Sheesh!
168 |
Stanley Sea Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:48:30pm |
re: #162 Killgore Trout
It looks really weak to me. They might have something on the claim that O’keekfe was posing as a concerned boyfriend and not a pimp. I’ve seen the claim repeated but I don’t know the source of the information. However, It’s pretty clear that the tapes are substantially edited and I suspect Breitbart is going to find himself in legal trouble before this is over. You just can’t frame innocent people for crimes. I suspect some prosecutors are looking into this.
Yeah, some crooked prosecutors.////// Gah.
| 169 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:48:37pm |
re: #165 Alouette
I was horribly bullied in elementary school. It had nothing to do with race, religion, gayness. I was short and nerdy and four-eyed and got picked on.
The teachers and my parents didn’t help by telling me “when they laugh at you, just laugh with them!”
Just thinking about it now, I hate them all.
Exactly. When there is no motivating factor that could lead us to excuse a particular behavior, it is far more logical to ban the behavior outright than to make enumerations based on motivation. The motivation is assumed to be unjust, regardless of what it it. It is no less just to bully you for being a nerd than for being (insert category here). Making the distinction in the ban, therefore, is unnecessary.
| 170 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:48:39pm |
re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist
I took a quick glance. I don’t know if the ‘liberal myths’ are correct or not, but he seems to be refuting them with transcripts that he claims to be from the unedited tapes. I would like proof of that claim. If the transcripts are really from unaltered tapes, that is VERY different from if they’re not.
I suspect that Breitbart is releasing audio and transcripts is because they’re easier to edit without being noticed. I’m pretty sure the raw video wasn’t destroyed after they edited their films. Most filmakers keep all their originals, outtakes etc. for future edits.
171 |
SteveC Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:48:56pm |
re: #5 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Boy, that has to be a serious shift in weight.
“Move your fat ass, Henry!” - George Washington to Henry Knox, The Crossing
| 172 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:49:28pm |
re: #165 Alouette
I was horribly bullied in elementary school. It had nothing to do with race, religion, gayness. I was short and nerdy and four-eyed and got picked on.
The teachers and my parents didn’t help by telling me “when they laugh at you, just laugh with them!”
Just thinking about it now, I hate them all.
Well, they told me that when I grew up, I would see what a big fuss I made about being bullied, and realize it was no big deal.
I’m thirty-six, and I still might punch out some of those girls if I could get a hold of them.
And you’re about my mother’s age, if I infer correctly…OK, I guess I’m not gonna get over it!
173 |
The Sanity Inspector Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:49:35pm |
re: #22 MrSilverDragon
You know what this means?! A SHORTER WORK WEEK! HURRAY!
(if only)
Hey, there won’t be so much month left at the end of the money now!
| 174 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:50:18pm |
re: #166 cliffster
It’s a noble cause. I don’t think you’ll ever get rid of bullying or even really reduce it.
You can reduce it, or at least reduce its impact. Or, at least, there is some stuff you should NOT do.
| 175 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:50:46pm |
re: #164 Aceofwhat?
correctly describing the behavior that is now forbidden is unrelated to a discussion of its motivations.
If bullying does not count in an instance, and we think it ought to, then clearly we need to improve our definition of the behavior we wish to ban.
the motivating factor is irrelevant when the behavior to be banned is aptly spelled out in the legislation, because the behavior leaves no wiggle room for discernment.
you’re solving the problem the hard way. ban the behavior and the motivation becomes impossible to factor.
I’m sorry; this doesn’t take into account what happens when the presiding authority (teacher, principal, etc.) has their thumb on the scale and declares the bullying acceptable or not a problem. Explicit description of the kinds of bullying only help people in the real world administer the law.
Also, frankly, you’re misstating when you claim that we’re looking at motivations. We’re saying “don’t hassle people on the basis of who they sleep with.” That’s an action. Looking at their motivation would be, “Don’t hassle gay people if you’re doing it because of your religion” or “Don’t hassle gay people if you’re in the closet and can’t admit it.”
This bill is still on the what. The why is irrelevant.
176 |
Qabal Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:53:01pm |
OT: Another post by my favorite T/S author, Rick Ungar, about the slide towards McCarthyism on the right (and the next big outrageous outrage):
| 177 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:53:31pm |
re: #169 Aceofwhat?
Exactly. When there is no motivating factor that could lead us to excuse a particular behavior, it is far more logical to ban the behavior outright than to make enumerations based on motivation. The motivation is assumed to be unjust, regardless of what it it. It is no less just to bully you for being a nerd than for being (insert category here). Making the distinction in the ban, therefore, is unnecessary.
I’m bowing out of this, since I picked a bad link to demonstrate. Let’s just say that bullying about sexuality is a huge issue for both gay and straight kids, and there are folks out there who do not want sexuality included in any anti-bullying policy.
| 178 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:53:44pm |
re: #167 Spare O’Lake
Mythology is highly underrated these days.
What if the Greeks had debunked all their myths?
How boring would that have been?
Why can’t we enjoy a good myth anymore?
Sheesh!
These day’s its hit or myth…Sorry! I couldn’t resist… ;)
| 179 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:53:54pm |
re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, they told me that when I grew up, I would see what a big fuss I made about being bullied, and realize it was no big deal.
I’m thirty-six, and I still might punch out some of those girls if I could get a hold of them.
And you’re about my mother’s age, if I infer correctly…OK, I guess I’m not gonna get over it!
Being bullied as a child and not being able to do anything about it, while the grownups told me to “laugh with it!” gave me a very low self esteem. I went to a different high school just to get away from those bitches and assholes who made my life so much hell.
| 180 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:54:03pm |
re: #175 torrentprime
I disagree that I am misstating the part about motivations.
“Don’t hassle people on the basis of who they sleep with” includes a motivation.
“Don’t hassle people” excludes the motivation. It also excludes the ability of an authority figure to decide whether the activity was indeed pursued on a “basis” that you would deem “forbidden”.
The basis is irrelevant unless it is ok, in some cases, to hassle people.
Is that what you’re saying?
| 181 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:55:28pm |
re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist
I’m bowing out of this, since I picked a bad link to demonstrate. Let’s just say that bullying about sexuality is a huge issue for both gay and straight kids, and there are folks out there who do not want sexuality included in any anti-bullying policy.
No problem. I wholeheartedly agree that any provision which could be construed to permit the bullying of someone based on their sexuality, or on any other characteristic for that matter, is just sixteen kinds of wrong.
And since i think that was a major part of your point, we’re all good there. Now i’m just having fun with Torrentprime…
182 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:56:20pm |
re: #180 Aceofwhat?
i’m coming in late so this might have been covered.
You realize you’re making a geenral argument used against hate crime laws right?
| 183 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:56:27pm |
re: #179 Alouette
Being bullied as a child and not being able to do anything about it, while the grownups told me to “laugh with it!” gave me a very low self esteem. I went to a different high school just to get away from those bitches and assholes who made my life so much hell.
that stinks. bullying is wrong for any reason.
| 184 |
The Sanity Inspector Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:56:28pm |
re: #166 cliffster
It’s a noble cause. I don’t think you’ll ever get rid of bullying or even really reduce it.
So far so good, at my kids’ charter school. They are top of their classes academically, as well as being distinctive-looking*, but the school’s anti-bullying policy has fostered a pretty comradely, learning-friendly environment.
*They arrived reversed: She’s too tall, and he’s too pretty. ;)
| 185 |
SteveC Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:56:39pm |
re: #165 Alouette
I was horribly bullied in elementary school. It had nothing to do with race, religion, gayness. I was short and nerdy and four-eyed and got picked on.
All of the above, plus I was a “sick kid” and the bullies knew that I wouldn’t/couldn’t fight back.
I was getting picked on one day and he was pushing all of my buttons, and then he’d throw this in: “Whatcha gonna do? I’ll punch you in the chest and give you a heart attack!” (Pretty much impossible with my heart defect, but bullies aren’t brainy)
Well I had had it up to HERE and I popped him, right on the chin! Not very hard, but it caught him by surprise…
…. and his head snapped back and hit the metal pole he was leaning against. There was an audible DING!; he looked at me, his eyes crossed, and he sat down!
Then he fell over and puked.
I was never bothered again. But if it hadn’t been for that metal pole, I probably would have gotten my ass whipped.
| 186 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:57:45pm |
speaking of bullying (I love to tell stories)
in the elementary school, I had my arm broken by the same bully… twice… in the same year.
As I remember it nothing much happened to him (altho I got the hell out of that school). Of course that was a long time ago :P
| 187 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:58:07pm |
re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist
You can reduce it, or at least reduce its impact. Or, at least, there is some stuff you should NOT do.
I’m of the opinion that the teachers would just pay more attention to the kids when their outside the classroom, on the war to lockers and other classes there would be less of a problem with bullying. I was one of those kids that got a lot of bullying. The teachers complete ignored it, as soon as the kids left the room there was no one to put a stop to my torment. And it was torment let me tell you! By the time I left High School I hated every one of my class mates with very, very few exceptions.
| 188 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:58:29pm |
re: #186 windsagio
oh and its not meant to be a tale of woe, its just funny what didn’t get punished sometimes >>
| 189 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:58:36pm |
re: #165 Alouette
I was horribly bullied in elementary school. It had nothing to do with race, religion, gayness. I was short and nerdy and four-eyed and got picked on.
The teachers and my parents didn’t help by telling me “when they laugh at you, just laugh with them!”
Just thinking about it now, I hate them all.
More recently, some of the kids who felt they were being bullied took their daddy’s assault weapons to school…
| 190 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:58:49pm |
re: #164 Aceofwhat?
correctly describing the behavior that is now forbidden is unrelated to a discussion of its motivations.
If bullying does not count in an instance, and we think it ought to, then clearly we need to improve our definition of the behavior we wish to ban.
the motivating factor is irrelevant when the behavior to be banned is aptly spelled out in the legislation, because the behavior leaves no wiggle room for discernment.
you’re solving the problem the hard way. ban the behavior and the motivation becomes impossible to factor.
It’s also worth pointing out that people are perfectly willing to accept other enumerations, such as religion, but not to accept the poison pill of sexual orientation, such as the Iowa reps who
| 191 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:58:50pm |
re: #182 windsagio
i’m coming in late so this might have been covered.
You realize you’re making a geenral argument used against hate crime laws right?
sorta, except sometimes it’s more illuminating to use a narrow example. i have already posted the caveat that i’m not a big hate crime law fan.
the difference here, though, is that we aren’t dealing with the “crime against a class of people” part of the HC laws, but rather whether an activity needs to have its motivations enumerated if the activity is to be banned outright regardless of the motivations.
so…yes and no?
| 192 |
AlexRogan Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:58:50pm |
re: #185 SteveC
All of the above, plus I was a “sick kid” and the bullies knew that I wouldn’t/couldn’t fight back.
I was getting picked on one day and he was pushing all of my buttons, and then he’d throw this in: “Whatcha gonna do? I’ll punch you in the chest and give you a heart attack!” (Pretty much impossible with my heart defect, but bullies aren’t brainy)
Well I had had it up to HERE and I popped him, right on the chin! Not very hard, but it caught him by surprise…
… and his head snapped back and hit the metal pole he was leaning against. There was an audible DING!; he looked at me, his eyes crossed, and he sat down!
Then he fell over and puked.
I was never bothered again. But if it hadn’t been for that metal pole, I probably would have gotten my ass whipped.
F**king awesome!
| 193 |
cliffster Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:59:42pm |
re: #185 SteveC
bullies generally don’t know what to do if a real fight comes to them. You probably would have been just fine.
| 194 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:59:58pm |
re: #187 Dragon_Lady
I’m of the opinion that the teachers would just pay more attention to the kids when their outside the classroom, on the war to lockers and other classes there would be less of a problem with bullying. I was one of those kids that got a lot of bullying. The teachers complete ignored it, as soon as the kids left the room there was no one to put a stop to my torment. And it was torment let me tell you! By the time I left High School I hated every one of my class mates with very, very few exceptions.
Even when the teachers do notice something going on, like the time I ran inside to the classroom during recess, sobbing uncontrollably, and the teacher told me to just “laugh with them!”
One of the suckiest moments of my life.
| 195 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 1:59:58pm |
re: #191 Aceofwhat?
lol fair enough. Its one of those issues where the whole thing has this bad habit of slogging into the nighmare morass of ‘definitions’.
| 196 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:00:32pm |
re: #186 windsagio
speaking of bullying (I love to tell stories)
in the elementary school, I had my arm broken by the same bully… twice… in the same year.
As I remember it nothing much happened to him (altho I got the hell out of that school). Of course that was a long time ago :P
These days your little sister would probably be arrested.
| 197 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:00:45pm |
re: #190 torrentprime
It’s also worth pointing out that people are perfectly willing to accept other enumerations, such as religion, but not to accept the poison pill of sexual orientation, such as the Iowa reps who
I disagree with those enumerations as well. If a behavior is universally banned, no enumeration is necessary.
| 198 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:00:51pm |
re: #185 SteveC
All of the above, plus I was a “sick kid” and the bullies knew that I wouldn’t/couldn’t fight back.
I was getting picked on one day and he was pushing all of my buttons, and then he’d throw this in: “Whatcha gonna do? I’ll punch you in the chest and give you a heart attack!” (Pretty much impossible with my heart defect, but bullies aren’t brainy)
Well I had had it up to HERE and I popped him, right on the chin! Not very hard, but it caught him by surprise…
… and his head snapped back and hit the metal pole he was leaning against. There was an audible DING!; he looked at me, his eyes crossed, and he sat down!
Then he fell over and puked.
I was never bothered again. But if it hadn’t been for that metal pole, I probably would have gotten my ass whipped.
I’m with you there Steve! I had Rheumatoid Arthritus my whole childhood and the teachers never failed to make me feel like a weakling and, as you can guess, I was the one all the bullies loved to go after!
| 199 |
SteveC Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:01:14pm |
re: #192 talon_262
F**king awesome!
As soon as I did it, I thought “Well, that wasn’t really bright!”
| 200 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:01:27pm |
re: #193 cliffster
That’s something that is said alot (bullies as cowards), but often they’re just big and strong, and can fight just fine :p
It makes me think of a friend, had a hell of a time in Elementary school, matured early, and beat the hell out of eveyrone he could get his hands on (mostly his old enemies) in Middle School. He had become a bully by any means and his own admission, but he certainly wasn’t afraid to fight.
| 201 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:01:46pm |
re: #195 windsagio
lol fair enough. Its one of those issues where the whole thing has this bad habit of slogging into the nighmare morass of ‘definitions’.
i’m a sucker for that kind of morass…a fault that i need to be transparent about, since i clearly am not able to surmount it :)
| 202 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:02:12pm |
re: #186 windsagio
speaking of bullying (I love to tell stories)
in the elementary school, I had my arm broken by the same bully… twice… in the same year.
As I remember it nothing much happened to him (altho I got the hell out of that school). Of course that was a long time ago :P
(We can tell!) ;) Just funnin ya!
| 203 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:02:26pm |
re: #196 Spare O’Lake
These days your little sister would probably be arrested.
ok, i laughed and updinged…but just to make sure…that was a joke, right?
205 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:02:57pm |
re: #186 windsagio
speaking of bullying (I love to tell stories)
in the elementary school, I had my arm broken by the same bully… twice… in the same year.
As I remember it nothing much happened to him (altho I got the hell out of that school). Of course that was a long time ago :P
You needed a big brother.
| 206 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:03:14pm |
re: #202 Dragon_Lady
oh dude (I use it gender neutral :p), some time get me on the line of “Awful things I’ve seen at group homes. I could write a horror novel.
| 207 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:03:15pm |
re: #200 windsagio
That’s something that is said alot (bullies as cowards), but often they’re just big and strong, and can fight just fine :p
It makes me think of a friend, had a hell of a time in Elementary school, matured early, and beat the hell out of eveyrone he could get his hands on (mostly his old enemies) in Middle School. He had become a bully by any means and his own admission, but he certainly wasn’t afraid to fight.
Pay backs a bitch, ain’t it? Those kids probably deserved it!
| 208 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:03:31pm |
re: #200 windsagio
yeah, i’m happy to be skinny now but i was damn skinny in jr high. some of the bullies couldn’t back it up…but some of them could beat up most teachers.
i hear ya.
| 209 |
cliffster Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:03:37pm |
re: #200 windsagio
That’s something that is said alot (bullies as cowards), but often they’re just big and strong, and can fight just fine :p
It makes me think of a friend, had a hell of a time in Elementary school, matured early, and beat the hell out of eveyrone he could get his hands on (mostly his old enemies) in Middle School. He had become a bully by any means and his own admission, but he certainly wasn’t afraid to fight.
Ha. I said, “generally”, which I think is true. There are, of course, some kids who can beat your ass and are also bullies. My dad taught me to fight when I was a kid, for just that kind of guy. I don’t think people teach their sons how to fight any more. But my dad is old skool.
| 210 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:03:51pm |
re: #207 Dragon_Lady
He certainly thought so! Like SFZ, still dislikes them to this day, altho I don’t think he’d beat ‘em up now :D
| 211 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:04:04pm |
re: #181 Aceofwhat?
No problem. I wholeheartedly agree that any provision which could be construed to permit the bullying of someone based on their sexuality, or on any other characteristic for that matter, is just sixteen kinds of wrong.
And since i think that was a major part of your point, we’re all good there. Now i’m just having fun with Torrentprime…
:)
I think we may disagree on the motivation question. You’re acting as if the words spoken by a bully are a never-wrong, crystal clear window into his/her motivation. Actions can belie motivations; one is not the other. I’m not that sanguine about assuming someone’s inner heart and mind; I think “you can’t give people crap about their race, their religion, their orientation” etc bans behavior, regardless of why they’re saying what they are saying.
You’re inferring intent/motivation from actions. I don’t think it’s necessary or safe to do so; just ban the behavior and leave motivations up to individuals.
| 212 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:04:06pm |
re: #185 SteveC
All of the above, plus I was a “sick kid” and the bullies knew that I wouldn’t/couldn’t fight back.
I was getting picked on one day and he was pushing all of my buttons, and then he’d throw this in: “Whatcha gonna do? I’ll punch you in the chest and give you a heart attack!” (Pretty much impossible with my heart defect, but bullies aren’t brainy)
Well I had had it up to HERE and I popped him, right on the chin! Not very hard, but it caught him by surprise…
… and his head snapped back and hit the metal pole he was leaning against. There was an audible DING!; he looked at me, his eyes crossed, and he sat down!
Then he fell over and puked.
I was never bothered again. But if it hadn’t been for that metal pole, I probably would have gotten my ass whipped.
Hilarious. Wish I could give you more than one puny upding.
| 213 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:04:26pm |
re: #204 windsagio
Do you see pedantry as a virtue? :D
No, and yet I fall into it on a near-daily basis.
Sigh.
I’m so fallible.
| 214 |
The Sanity Inspector Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:04:33pm |
re: #179 Alouette
Being bullied as a child and not being able to do anything about it, while the grownups told me to “laugh with it!” gave me a very low self esteem. I went to a different high school just to get away from those bitches and assholes who made my life so much hell.
{{Alouette}}
| 215 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:04:35pm |
re: #206 windsagio
oh dude (I use it gender neutral :p), some time get me on the line of “Awful things I’ve seen at group homes. I could write a horror novel.
I’ve been called worse… ;)
| 216 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:04:49pm |
re: #205 RogueOne
Everyone’s scared of my big brother, but he’s disabled.
I told you guys the baseball bat story didn’t I? Since I’m on a jag :D
| 217 |
SteveC Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:04:58pm |
re: #204 windsagio
Do you see pedantry as a virtue? :D
I like Pendants! I gave my girlfriend a really nice one last Christmas….!
///
| 218 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:05:45pm |
re: #217 SteveC
heh, I was careful to spell it right!
(man wheres this nervous posting energy coming from?)
| 219 |
Kragar Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:05:55pm |
Wow, the things you learn browsing the internet:
“The Greatest Disaster Suffered from Animals”
Repeated calls by the British for the Japanese to surrender were ignored: the Marines holding the perimeter shot any Japanese attempting to escape, while within the swampland hundreds of soldiers died over the course of several days for lack of food or drinking water. Some, including naturalist Bruce Wright, claimed that the crocodiles attacked and ate numerous soldiers:
“That night [of the 19 February 1945] was the most horrible that any member of the M.L. [motor launch] crews ever experienced. The scattered rifle shots in the pitch black swamp punctured by the screams of wounded men crushed in the jaws of huge reptiles, and the blurred worrying sound of spinning crocodiles made a cacophony of hell that has rarely been duplicated on earth. At dawn the vultures arrived to clean up what the crocodiles had left…Of about 1,000 Japanese soldiers that entered the swamps of Ramree, only about 20 were found alive.”[2]
However, these claims are disputed, and interviews with senior residents of Ramree deny that crocodiles attacked the beleaguered Japanese soldiers. When the British eventually moved in on the swamp, they found that of the nine hundred troops that originally fled into the swamp, only around twenty seriously wounded and weakened Japanese soldiers were captured. In all, about 500 Japanese soldiers escaped from Ramree despite the intense blockade instituted to stop them.
| 220 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:07:22pm |
re: #211 torrentprime
:)
I think we may disagree on the motivation question. You’re acting as if the words spoken by a bully are a never-wrong, crystal clear window into his/her motivation. Actions can belie motivations; one is not the other. I’m not that sanguine about assuming someone’s inner heart and mind; I think “you can’t give people crap about their race, their religion, their orientation” etc bans behavior, regardless of why they’re saying what they are saying.
I think we’re getting somewhere!
that last part in bold…help me…how does that protect, for example, Alouette, who got crap because she was perceived to be a nerd?
| 221 |
AlexRogan Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:08:00pm |
re: #199 SteveC
As soon as I did it, I thought “Well, that wasn’t really bright!”
Well, it put the fear of G-d (with a little assist from that metal pole) into those bullies, didn’t it?
;-P
| 222 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:08:42pm |
re: #216 windsagio
Everyone’s scared of my big brother, but he’s disabled.
I told you guys the baseball bat story didn’t I? Since I’m on a jag :D
Didn’t know that about your brother. If my brother had come home and told my mom that someone was picking on him and I hadn’t taken care of it…I would have been in the shit.
| 223 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:09:14pm |
re: #219 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Wow, the things you learn browsing the internet:
I’ve heard a similar story involving feral hogs at the Battle of Shiloh.
| 224 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:09:20pm |
re: #218 windsagio
heh, I was careful to spell it right!
(man wheres this nervous posting energy coming from?)
Too much caffeine? I’m just sayin…
| 225 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:09:58pm |
re: #220 Aceofwhat?
I think we’re getting somewhere!
that last part in bold…help me…how does that protect, for example, Alouette, who got crap because she was perceived to be a nerd?
Just laugh with them!
| 226 |
SteveC Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:10:10pm |
re: #221 talon_262
Well, it put the fear of G-d (with a little assist from that metal pole) into those bullies, didn’t it?
;-P
That pole was my secret weapon! “You wanna make something of it, let’s go outside. Here, you lean against this pole…!”
| 227 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:10:18pm |
re: #218 windsagio
heh, I was careful to spell it right!
(man wheres this nervous posting energy coming from?)
for some reason, i get the impression that you usually post with nervous energy.
don’t mean that in any way good or bad…it’s just funny the vibes you get when you encounter friends frequently through this medium but not through any tactile or voice medium.
it’d be interesting on a lounge night to talk about the vibes that we all give off to each other through our posting styles…
| 228 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:11:01pm |
re: #187 Dragon_Lady
I’m of the opinion that the teachers would just pay more attention to the kids when their outside the classroom, on the war to lockers and other classes there would be less of a problem with bullying. I was one of those kids that got a lot of bullying. The teachers complete ignored it, as soon as the kids left the room there was no one to put a stop to my torment. And it was torment let me tell you! By the time I left High School I hated every one of my class mates with very, very few exceptions.
Gotta be out in the halls, gotta be out on the yard, gotta be actively involved.
| 229 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:11:11pm |
Obama proposes $3,000 home energy rebates
I might take advantage of something like this. I wonder how many other people would. Could help create some jobs.
| 230 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:11:16pm |
| 231 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:11:35pm |
re: #222 RogueOne
My brother, being autistic used to ask for me to come home so he could attack me. My mom would leave a baseball bat on the front porch as a warning (altho, why she used that I don’t know, I would just see it and go next door to my grandparents.)
My whole family (myself included) finds this story hilarious :D
and with that, I’m gonna go and get some food or something, get my electrolytes back in check :D Its not the “talk about windie” blog >>
| 232 |
SteveC Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:11:41pm |
re: #220 Aceofwhat?
Alouette, who got crap because she was perceived to be a nerd?
Alouette, you can hang around here anytime, I like women with BRAINS! :)
| 233 |
Stanley Sea Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:12:23pm |
re: #210 windsagio
He certainly thought so! Like SFZ, still dislikes them to this day, altho I don’t think he’d beat ‘em up now :D
You facebook him yet?
| 234 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:12:29pm |
re: #203 Aceofwhat?
ok, i laughed and updinged…but just to make sure…that was a joke, right?
Well, if you’re gonna twist my arm…YES IT WAS A JOKE!
| 235 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:12:30pm |
re: #232 SteveC
Alouette, you can hang around here anytime, I like women with BRAINS! :)
seriously. smart women are straight sexy.
| 236 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:12:55pm |
| 237 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:13:20pm |
re: #220 Aceofwhat?
I think we’re getting somewhere!
that last part in bold…help me…how does that protect, for example, Alouette, who got crap because she was perceived to be a nerd?
If they had added “no bullying the uncool” to statutes, my entire high school would be felons.
So if I can explain why Alouette should have been protected by a bill enacted in her future, you’ll agree with me? Wow, it seems so tempting…
| 238 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:13:37pm |
re: #234 Spare O’Lake
Well, if you’re gonna twist my arm…YES IT WAS A JOKE!
sorry to ask. i laughed out loud and updinged, but then Windie downdinged and i got scared for a second that there was some dark history i was missing.
Windie - laugh it off, dude. That was just straight funny.
| 239 |
Kragar Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:13:57pm |
re: #223 Alouette
I’ve heard a similar story involving feral hogs at the Battle of Shiloh.
It was my understanding that the hogs at Shiloh were eating the dead after the battle.
240 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:14:19pm |
re: #219 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Wow, the things you learn browsing the internet:
Another of the brutal operations against the Japanese, in the main rendered brutal by the IJA refusal to surrender. That made any fight where the Japanese were hemmed in bloody woe. Still, the very fact that the UK had enough amphibious forces to mount the assault meant doom to Japan, since the IJn could no longer shield against the Allied navies.
| 241 |
SteveC Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:14:31pm |
re: #235 Aceofwhat?
seriously. smart women are straight sexy.
And LGF has a whole crew of smart ladies!
(Not going to call names because I’ll miss someone and then I will be in deep do-do. But you know who you are!)
| 242 |
The Sanity Inspector Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:14:41pm |
re: #221 talon_262
Well, it put the fear of G-d (with a little assist from that metal pole) into those bullies, didn’t it?
;-P
We all need one small victory from time to time.
| 243 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:15:00pm |
re: #238 Aceofwhat?
I have no excuse :P At least not that I’m willing to go into. I’m just feeling all werewolfy, thats why I’m *TRYING* (glare) to get away from the computer for a while :p
| 244 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:15:18pm |
re: #237 torrentprime
If they had added “no bullying the uncool” to statutes, my entire high school would be felons.
So if I can explain why Alouette should have been protected by a bill enacted in her future, you’ll agree with me? Wow, it seems so tempting…
Oh, so it’s ok to bully sometimes. Just not on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.
Just so you know, that’s what you’re saying…you sure that’s what you want to say?
(Alouette was a hypothetical…think “nerd” if you must)
| 245 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:15:36pm |
I just remembered, there is a kid’s book that describes the bullying phenomenon quite accurately. Blubber, by Judy Blume.
| 246 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:15:39pm |
re: #232 SteveC
Alouette, you can hang around here anytime, I like women with BRAINS! :)
And there are entire web sites dedicated to women w/ glasses. Jan Smithers (WKRP) seems to be a favorite.
| 247 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:16:06pm |
re: #244 Aceofwhat?
How about its never okay but its worse if you’re doing it for the stated reasons? Would that work for you?
| 248 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:16:10pm |
re: #220 Aceofwhat?
I think we’re getting somewhere!
that last part in bold…help me…how does that protect, for example, Alouette, who got crap because she was perceived to be a nerd?
Any decent anti-bullying rule will cover that.
What we’re trying to deal with in rules that clearly cover issues like sexuality is leave no loophole for the educator who insists that leaving notes that say ‘faggot’ in a kid’s locker is NOT bullying.
Happens oftener than one might think.
| 249 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:16:13pm |
re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
It was my understanding that the hogs at Shiloh were eating the dead after the battle.
They might have eaten men too weak to fight them off, though. Wild pigs have done that at times, and a pig can digest human flesh as easily as a human can digest pork.
| 251 |
Taqyia2Me Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:16:22pm |
re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
It was my understanding that the hogs at Shiloh were eating the dead after the battle.
Reminds me of that HBO series Deadwood.
| 252 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:16:24pm |
re: #243 windsagio
I have no excuse :P At least not that I’m willing to go into. I’m just feeling all werewolfy, thats why I’m *TRYING* (glare) to get away from the computer for a while :p
you can make fun of me if it helps. i shoot my foot at least thrice daily…
| 253 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:16:32pm |
re: #237 torrentprime
If they had added “no bullying the uncool” to statutes, my entire high school would be felons.
So if I can explain why Alouette should have been protected by a bill enacted in her future, you’ll agree with me? Wow, it seems so tempting…
I want to be able to retroactively sue those kids and the teachers for all my mental pain and suffering.
| 254 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:16:44pm |
re: #216 windsagio
Everyone’s scared of my big brother, but he’s disabled.
I told you guys the baseball bat story didn’t I? Since I’m on a jag :D
My brothers all picked on me, gently for the most part mind you, but if they found out that anyone picked on me look out! Our neighborhood bullies left me alone when we were home. They just waited until I was at school. Then it was practically a free for all.
Ask RWC! One of my older brothers was in the Marines when RWC and I started dating and I would right to him every week and i told him about RWC. The very next letter I got back had a very subtle message to RWC about what would happen to any guy who hurt his little sister, something about broken legs… I think he (RWC) got the point. Four brothers is enough to put off most guys, but RWC’s got guts I must say. ;-)
| 255 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:16:53pm |
re: #247 windsagio
How about its never okay but its worse if you’re doing it for the stated reasons? Would that work for you?
nope. you had me at never ok.
| 256 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:17:05pm |
re: #252 Aceofwhat?
haha hows this.
Telling people why you think they did something generally leads to brutal fights :p
| 257 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:17:20pm |
| 258 |
SteveC Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:18:02pm |
re: #243 windsagio
I have no excuse :P At least not that I’m willing to go into. I’m just feeling all werewolfy, thats why I’m *TRYING* (glare) to get away from the computer for a while :p
Ah-oooooooo, windsagio of London…..
260 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:18:13pm |
re: #222 RogueOne
Didn’t know that about your brother. If my brother had come home and told my mom that someone was picking on him and I hadn’t taken care of it…I would have been in the shit.
I don’t care for Bullies.. I don’t recall ever being Bullied in School…
But there were times I’ve stepped in for my classmates in school
*maybe you want a piece of me*
I was kind of popular in school so I never really had to back it up and could get a Bully to shut up and back off…
Of course there was this other guy on the Basketball team that I fought with in practice all the time..Drove the coach insane…It was the kind of fight we would just rolled around the floor and people would pull us apart…A lot of yelling and stuff but no punches thrown….
| 261 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:18:17pm |
re: #257 Aceofwhat?
because you’re trying to mold young minds!
Seriously. You’re trying to change thought behaviors young, and making it really clear that that kind of thought isn’t okay (which you cna’t do directly, but can through punishing actions) is a way to get the message across.
| 262 |
Kragar Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:18:41pm |
re: #240 Dark_Falcon
Another of the brutal operations against the Japanese, in the main rendered brutal by the IJA refusal to surrender. That made any fight where the Japanese were hemmed in bloody woe. Still, the very fact that the UK had enough amphibious forces to mount the assault meant doom to Japan, since the IJn could no longer shield against the Allied navies.
In this case, the Japanese were faced with staying were they were and dying or attempt to escape thru the swamps. They tried the swamps, which were filled with thousands of salt water crocodiles averaging 15+’ in length. They got torn apart literally.
| 264 |
vaynela Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:23:02pm |
re: #32 Decatur Deb
Stick around. Hebrew is back after 2000 years. Latin will have it’s day, but just not while Berlusconi is running the show.
| 265 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:23:38pm |
re: #228 SanFranciscoZionist
Gotta be out in the halls, gotta be out on the yard, gotta be actively involved.
Yeah, but you try explaining that to them! Not one of them could care less, at least not at the school I went to! The only time I really had a school official stand up for me was when one of my class mates thought it was funny to yell obscenities at me from across the hall and I went to the boys vice-principle and told him about it. The next day he was standing just out of sight and got a earful of what I had been enduing for the last few weeks. I found out that he (the kid) was suspended and subsequently diagnosed with a brain tumor. I saw him about ten years after the incident and he thanked me for reporting his behavior, seems I save his life. They got the tumor out just in time. You never know what reporting an incident will do… maybe even save a life! Made me feel good!
| 266 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:23:56pm |
re: #261 windsagio
because you’re trying to mold young minds!
Seriously. You’re trying to change thought behaviors young, and making it really clear that that kind of thought isn’t okay (which you cna’t do directly, but can through punishing actions) is a way to get the message across.
We agree on the first sentence.
Whatever the motivation for the bullying, it was wrong. If no motivation is an excuse for bullying, then logically you would not attempt to list all possible motivations in a ban on bullying. You would simply ban bullying.
Then, when punishing the offender, you would delve into the heart of the motivation and attempt to mold the mind. I agree with that.
I’m only saying that it’s illogical to enumerate motivations for an action if the action is never permissible.
Let’s say theft.
If theft is never permissible, would you write a bill that says “in the case of X, Y, and Z, theft is not permissible”? Of course not. You’d simply define what theft is and ban it. Period.
Did that analogy help or complicate my point? (did the bullet go into the sky or into my metatarsal…)
| 267 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:24:39pm |
re: #260 HoosierHoops
I don’t care for Bullies.. I don’t recall ever being Bullied in School…
But there were times I’ve stepped in for my classmates in school
*maybe you want a piece of me*
I was kind of popular in school so I never really had to back it up and could get a Bully to shut up and back off…
Of course there was this other guy on the Basketball team that I fought with in practice all the time..Drove the coach insane…It was the kind of fight we would just rolled around the floor and people would pull us apart…A lot of yelling and stuff but no punches thrown…
I was too big to be physically bullied much, but I often was mocked and picked on. The only major time I had problem with someone in grade school was actually with a girl, who decided to make my life trouble one week. She finally actually started throwing punches at recess that Thursday, whereupon the school staff sent me inside for everyone’s sake. She got suspended for her actions and her parents landed on her hard enough that she did not try violence again.
| 268 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:26:40pm |
re: #267 Dark_Falcon
funny aside: i was the tallest boy in sixth grade and the exact same height as the shortest girl in my class.
| 270 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:26:58pm |
re: #244 Aceofwhat?
Oh, so it’s ok to bully sometimes. Just not on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.
Just so you know, that’s what you’re saying…you sure that’s what you want to say?
(Alouette was a hypothetical…think “nerd” if you must)
I’m surprised that my unwillingness to fall into your little deadfall wasn’t a hit! :)
We both know that’s not what I am saying. (Thanks for the check, though; when others put words in my mouth, it’s nice of them to ask permission!) If you need a definitive statement, try this: “The success of my argument about enumerating types of forbidden behavior doesn’t rise or fall depending on your confusion as to whether a potentially forbidden act must be listed specifically.”
“Don’t mess with people” would be line one of a law. Lines two through Z would include specific examples. Is that a problem, to give those who must administer the law examples of bad behavior? Our Alouette (who I sympathize and empathize with) would be protected either way.
| 271 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:27:19pm |
When I was a kid bullies were REAL bullies. They never discriminated and they never used verbal assaults or swarming…they just came up to you, one on one, and beat the crap out of you for absolutely no reason.
It was AWESOME.
272 |
wrenchwench Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:28:11pm |
I was mildly picked on in school. I also picked on one particular kid, who was smart, fat, and had a little bit of an accent, and whose Brazilian father visited our elementary school wearing a bright Nehru jacket once. Many years later, I apologized to him for being a nasty person. He held no grudge and responded, “Eh, kids are mean.”
| 274 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:29:02pm |
re: #268 Aceofwhat?
funny aside: i was the tallest boy in sixth grade and the exact same height as the shortest girl in my class.
6th grade is a weird time, the only one in most male’s live when they are smaller than the girls.
| 275 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:29:08pm |
re: #270 torrentprime
Don’t mess with people” would be line one of a law. Lines two through Z would include specific examples. Is that a problem, to give those who must administer the law examples of bad behavior?
Yes, it is a problem, because it provides an excuse for bullying those who are not in the “protected class.”
| 276 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:29:12pm |
re: #266 Aceofwhat?
We agree on the first sentence.
Whatever the motivation for the bullying, it was wrong. If no motivation is an excuse for bullying, then logically you would not attempt to list all possible motivations in a ban on bullying. You would simply ban bullying.
Then, when punishing the offender, you would delve into the heart of the motivation and attempt to mold the mind. I agree with that.
I’m only saying that it’s illogical to enumerate motivations for an action if the action is never permissible.
Let’s say theft.
If theft is never permissible, would you write a bill that says “in the case of X, Y, and Z, theft is not permissible”? Of course not. You’d simply define what theft is and ban it. Period.
Did that analogy help or complicate my point? (did the bullet go into the sky or into my metatarsal…)
You’re still completely confusing motivation with action. No one is outlawing motivation (“don’t bully because you believe X or are trying to achieve Y”). The outlawing covers what you do, such as call someone a fag. Understand motivation isn’t necessary to ban that.
| 277 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:29:39pm |
re: #270 torrentprime
It was a hit - updinged. Good stuff.
I actually wasn’t sure that was what you were saying, so thanks for the clarification. I hate it when others read too much into me, too, although I screw it up myself plenty of times.
I’d say that your last paragraph seems like good common ground.
Nicely done.
| 278 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:29:42pm |
Nothing was more fun than watching the school bully try to get into it with a car full of the rival school’s students at the state basketball quarter-finals outside the old Colosseum in Seattle. He tried to punch out the passenger window and got six broken hand bones for his trouble. Went to jail and lost his wrestling scholarship. Sweet.
| 279 |
brookly red Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:29:46pm |
re: #273 MandyManners
Boy-bullies are usually easy to see and deal with. Girl-bullies, though, are another story.
//just give up the chocolate & no one gets hurt…
| 280 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:30:06pm |
re: #269 MandyManners
I wonder what a bully’s home life is like.
My experience with bullying is that most of them endure verbal abuse at home and in order to feel better about themselves they turn it on others when away from home. I had a few kids in my neighborhood that would cower like a whipped dog as soon as a parent was spotted, but become real mean as soon as they were out of sight.
281 |
Guanxi88 Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:30:12pm |
In middle school -with a strict no-fighting policy - had a beef with one of my classmates. He was taller, stronger, and, in general, better built for combat than I was.
I removed my glasses, folded my hands behind my back, and invited him to take a shot, but, if he did, he should know that I’ll settle the score later.
A swing, a pop, and out flies a tooth and blood.
It was stupid and childish, and, in the weeks that followed, he and I patched over our differences and got to be kinda chummy.
Brought him his soda one day at lunch. Cherry Coke it was.
He took a nice long drink and slowly turned green and bolted for the bathroom. He was in the stall, convulsing from the dry heaves that a doubled-up dose of ipecac syrup will cause to a person who’s already vomited himself clean.
He looked up at me.
“Gotcha, ya son of a bitch!” And then I kicked him in the back of the head.
Same punishment for that as if I’d have thrown a punch back at the start of it.
Oddly enough, I never had any problems like that again.
| 282 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:30:15pm |
re: #275 Alouette
Yes, it is a problem, because it provides an excuse for bullying those who are not in the “protected class.”
Unless there is a group of people who don’t have sexual orientations, races, or genders, I’m not sure who isn’t in the protected class. We’re not talking about “special rights”, here.
284 |
Silvergirl Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:31:16pm |
re: #219 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Wow, the things you learn browsing the internet:
Scorpions and mosquitoes and crocodiles … oh, my!
And then the vultures appear.
What a living hell.
| 285 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:31:27pm |
re: #271 Spare O’Lake
When I was a kid bullies were REAL bullies. They never discriminated and they never used verbal assaults or swarming…they just came up to you, one on one, and beat the crap out of you for absolutely no reason.
It was AWESOME.
I think things were different then. About 50% of my classmates were juvenile delinquents (and had the paperwork to prove it). We still had standards, i.e. we would never hit a kid two grades below us, wouldn’t bother beating up the same kid twice.
| 286 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:31:27pm |
re: #274 Dark_Falcon
6th grade is a weird time, the only one in most male’s live when they are smaller than the girls.
I was always the shortest kid in the class, at all times and in all grades. The weird thing is that in high school these tall, basketball-playing dudes would ask me out. They thought I was “cute.” But the short guys always wanted a girl who was taller than they were.
287 |
ryannon Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:32:23pm |
re: #189 Spare O’Lake
More recently, some of the kids who felt they were being bullied took their daddy’s assault weapons to school…
A long time ago in Chicago, I began to be the target of a sadistic jerk - an older, heavier and much tougher guy. I gave it a couple of weeks and finally told him I’d pay some people to have him crippled with baseball bats. He found out that I lived in the housing projects and never bothered me again.
| 288 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:32:34pm |
re: #276 torrentprime
You’re still completely confusing motivation with action. No one is outlawing motivation (“don’t bully because you believe X or are trying to achieve Y”). The outlawing covers what you do, such as call someone a fag. Understand motivation isn’t necessary to ban that.
That’s fine. Where you were helpful was in your distinction between examples and motivations.
The discussion began with my question about whether the ban did indeed address motivations. Unless i misread him (careful caveat), Windsiagio also is concerned about motivations.
You are talking about clarifications, which I think is different and far more logical.
Did that help?
| 289 |
Guanxi88 Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:34:01pm |
All that’s necessary in dealing with any enemy is a clear determination to prevail, and the will to implement something sufficiently shocking as to give others pause for EVER trying that kinda thing again.
| 290 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:34:06pm |
re: #282 torrentprime
Unless there is a group of people who don’t have sexual orientations, races, or genders, I’m not sure who isn’t in the protected class. We’re not talking about “special rights”, here.
You still don’t get it. I was not picked on because I was perceived to be “gay.” I was picked on because I was short, skinny and wore glasses. The fat kids were also picked on. Nobody was picked on for being “gay” although this was back in the 50’s/60’s.
291 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:34:28pm |
Wanna talk about bullies — growing up in Hawaii, in the public schools they had something called “Kill Haole Day,” the last day of school. At the end of the day, the locals would line up on one side of the school yard and wait for “haoles” (white kids) to come out, then pounce on them and kick the living crap out of them. It was a mob composed entirely of bullies.
I avoided this festive occasion twice, by ducking out of the last class 30 minutes before the end. But I had a friend who actually ended up in the hospital one year.
| 292 |
keloyd Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:34:45pm |
I have no kids of my own, but it looks like the only realistic reading of the situation is to accept that bullying goes on, and your kids need tools to deal with it (brains, humor, fighting, gang up when needed, etc.) when it comes. All the school administrators saying all the most progressive and fashionable things will not move the settings of human nature by one tick.
| 293 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:35:09pm |
re: #288 Aceofwhat?
That’s fine. Where you were helpful was in your distinction between examples and motivations.
The discussion began with my question about whether the ban did indeed address motivations. Unless i misread him (careful caveat), Windsiagio also is concerned about motivations.
You are talking about clarifications, which I think is different and far more logical.
Did that help?
Yes. I don’t like thought-crime laws either. I don’t love getting into motivation and intent and “in your heart of hearts” crap, and it’s damn near impossible for an educator to have time to do so fairly. “Don’t call someone a fag” is a lot easier.
| 294 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:35:19pm |
re: #286 Alouette
I was always the shortest kid in the class, at all times and in all grades. The weird thing is that in high school these tall, basketball-playing dudes would ask me out. They thought I was “cute.” But the short guys always wanted a girl who was taller than they were.
Basketball players love cute girls in school..
I never considered that a character flaw…
295 |
rwdflynavy Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:35:21pm |
I was the only white kid dumb enough to go to Gilette Middle School (Kingsville Texas) on “Beat up Gringo Day”.
Hilarity ensued.
| 296 |
brookly red Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:35:28pm |
re: #289 Guanxi88
All that’s necessary in dealing with any enemy is a clear determination to prevail, and the will to implement something sufficiently shocking as to give others pause for EVER trying that kinda thing again.
The Bronx was a lovely place to grow up…
| 297 |
albusteve Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:35:51pm |
The Westchester resident suffered only minor injuries, a few cuts and scrapes from the damaged windshield.
What hurt far more was a $350 bill from the Glenside Fire Protection District, a fee critics refer to as a “crash tax.
| 298 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:35:56pm |
re: #291 Charles
Wanna talk about bullies — growing up in Hawaii, in the public schools they had something called “Kill Haole Day,” the last day of school. At the end of the day, the locals would line up on one side of the school yard and wait for “haoles” (white kids) to come out, then pounce and them and kick the living crap out of them. It was a mob composed entirely of bullies.
I avoided this festive occasion twice, by ducking out of the last class 30 minutes before the end. But I had a friend who actually ended up in the hospital one year.
Yikes.
| 299 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:36:46pm |
re: #266 Aceofwhat?
I’m only saying that it’s illogical to enumerate motivations for an action if the action is never permissible.
We’re enumerating types of actions in order to define the action. The basic problem with bullying is that, as Osama bin Laden so accurately pointed out to us, people like the strong horse, and the bully is often the strong horse, the voice of social approval.
Kids who are being bullied get told:
“Let me teach you to kick a ball so those guys won’t call you a faggot.”
“Maybe if you go over there at lunch and talk to those kids instead of reading in the library, they’ll stop making fun of you for reading so much.”
“Well, maybe if you make some GIRL friends, and don’t hang out with the guys all the time, they won’t call you a slut”.
“If you didn’t dress like a goth, they’d stop pointing and leaving messages calling you ‘Columbine Killer’ in your locker.”
“The other students won’t call you ‘fucking dykes’ if you stop holding hands on campus so much.”
“If you don’t cry when they bully you, they’ll stop.”
This is common. The message is: fix yourself, and maybe they’ll leave you alone. The message behind that: they’re right.
We need to clarify what counts as bullying. It cannot be left to common sense. Adding sexuality to the definition is important, because it’s far too common in our present society to think that calling another child a faggot is casual teasing.
‘At’s all.
| 300 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:36:54pm |
Wikipedia actually has an entry for Kill Haole Day.
| 301 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:37:05pm |
re: #275 Alouette
Yes, it is a problem, because it provides an excuse for bullying those who are not in the “protected class.”
I think he (he? i’m assuming TP is male but boy have i screwed that up in the past…sorry again Brookly…) was specific in stating that the core of the statute would ban the action. So you’re covered.
| 302 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:37:26pm |
re: #293 torrentprime
Yes. I don’t like thought-crime laws either. I don’t love getting into motivation and intent and “in your heart of hearts” crap, and it’s damn near impossible for an educator to have time to do so fairly. “Don’t call someone a fag” is a lot easier.
But it’s OK to call someone “four-eyes” “midget” and “spider-legs” not to mention the every popular “fatso”
| 303 |
Guanxi88 Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:37:41pm |
re: #296 brookly red
The Bronx was a lovely place to grow up…
I think it was Reagan who observed that the world is a rough neighborhood.
In the few fights it’s ever been my misfortune to be engaged in, I’ve always found that having snakes in my head has helped me to carry the day.
| 304 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:37:51pm |
re: #290 Alouette
You still don’t get it. I was not picked on because I was perceived to be “gay.” I was picked on because I was short, skinny and wore glasses. The fat kids were also picked on. Nobody was picked on for being “gay” although this was back in the 50’s/60’s.
I don’t get it? So when I was bullied incessantly for being fat and a nerd for 3 years of junior high that got so bad, my parents took me to an anger management counselor to learn to deal and threatened to sue the bully’s parents? LOL. Trust me, I get it.
What you are focusing on is the erroneous belief that only certain classes get protection. That is not and never has been the case in these laws, and certainly not in anything I’ve defended.
| 305 |
Silvergirl Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:37:54pm |
re: #291 Charles
I hope the public school admins and staff in HI are on top of that sort of thing these days.
| 306 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:38:01pm |
re: #291 Charles
and this was all fine and dandy with the adults???
| 307 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:38:19pm |
re: #291 Charles
Wanna talk about bullies — growing up in Hawaii, in the public schools they had something called “Kill Haole Day,” the last day of school. At the end of the day, the locals would line up on one side of the school yard and wait for “haoles” (white kids) to come out, then pounce on them and kick the living crap out of them. It was a mob composed entirely of bullies.
I avoided this festive occasion twice, by ducking out of the last class 30 minutes before the end. But I had a friend who actually ended up in the hospital one year.
In Canada we call this kind of thing an aboriginal land claim.
| 308 |
Political Atheist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:38:25pm |
When I was quite young, probably ten a kid would bug me and bug me. We were both at this day care place. Punches in the arm or whatever. This went on and on. Finally I snapped and tried to hurt him as I was being picked up.
My mom broke us up, and the very instant my mom let go of my arm I literally leaped back at him this time with far more serious intent. I hit him while he was still being held by the day care lady. She let go and it was on. I suppose It was really trying to beat him to at least unconsciousness. I had to go to the doctor a couple times, broken bones in my hand and severe bruising. My mother gave up trying to make me apologize or anything. I was far more willing to be grounded than give an inch.
Fortunately I grew up & learned how bad that moment was for my soul.
| 310 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:39:10pm |
re: #302 Alouette
But it’s OK to call someone “four-eyes” “midget” and “spider-legs” not to mention the every popular “fatso”
Really? Did someone say that? My goodness.
/
| 311 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:39:41pm |
re: #274 Dark_Falcon
6th grade is a weird time, the only one in most male’s live when they are smaller than the girls.
Sixth and seventh grades the girls shot up. It was a mostly Asian school. I and about five other black and Caucasian girls were suddenly taller than anyone.
I still imagine myself to be very tall. (I’m 5 foot 6.) Going to mostly Chinese schools will do that to you.
| 312 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:39:50pm |
re: #300 Charles
Wikipedia actually has an entry for Kill Haole Day.
We had May Day in Cleveland, but it wasn’t sanctioned by any grown-ups.
Still, it was openly discussed amongst certain bullies.
| 313 |
Silvergirl Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:39:53pm |
re: #300 Charles
Wikipedia actually has an entry for Kill Haole Day.
Wow. Still having incidents in 2006. That’s barbaric.
| 315 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:40:12pm |
re: #291 Charles
Wanna talk about bullies — growing up in Hawaii, in the public schools they had something called “Kill Haole Day,” the last day of school. At the end of the day, the locals would line up on one side of the school yard and wait for “haoles” (white kids) to come out, then pounce and them and kick the living crap out of them. It was a mob composed entirely of bullies.
I avoided this festive occasion twice, by ducking out of the last class 30 minutes before the end. But I had a friend who actually ended up in the hospital one year.
Kinda sounds like a bunch of girls that used to follow me home from school. I used to take the long way and go out of the opposite side of the school to avoid them. I got in trouble fro being late home but i kept my books intact. Unfortunately the eventually caught on to my avoidance tactic and I had to admit to my Mom what was going on. She went to the school and confronted them about it. Worst thing I ever did! Made it worse by far. Got my butt kicked the very next day. So much for parental protection… I can empathize with all picked on kids… its no fun!
| 316 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:40:20pm |
re: #291 Charles
Apropos to that: SPLC on native racism in Hawai’i
| 317 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:40:39pm |
re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist
We’re enumerating types of actions in order to define the action. The basic problem with bullying is that, as Osama bin Laden so accurately pointed out to us, people like the strong horse, and the bully is often the strong horse, the voice of social approval.
Kids who are being bullied get told:
“Let me teach you to kick a ball so those guys won’t call you a faggot.”
“Maybe if you go over there at lunch and talk to those kids instead of reading in the library, they’ll stop making fun of you for reading so much.”
“Well, maybe if you make some GIRL friends, and don’t hang out with the guys all the time, they won’t call you a slut”.
“If you didn’t dress like a goth, they’d stop pointing and leaving messages calling you ‘Columbine Killer’ in your locker.”
“The other students won’t call you ‘fucking dykes’ if you stop holding hands on campus so much.”
“If you don’t cry when they bully you, they’ll stop.”
This is common. The message is: fix yourself, and maybe they’ll leave you alone. The message behind that: they’re right.
We need to clarify what counts as bullying. It cannot be left to common sense. Adding sexuality to the definition is important, because it’s far too common in our present society to think that calling another child a faggot is casual teasing.
‘At’s all.
You left out “Laugh with them!”
| 318 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:40:45pm |
| 319 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:40:52pm |
re: #301 Aceofwhat?
I think he (he? i’m assuming TP is male but boy have i screwed that up in the past…sorry again Brookly…) was specific in stating that the core of the statute would ban the action. So you’re covered.
Right on all counts, assuming gays still count as men.
(Kidding!)
| 321 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:41:29pm |
re: #275 Alouette
Yes, it is a problem, because it provides an excuse for bullying those who are not in the “protected class.”
There is no such thing here. A straight kid is also protected from bullying based on sexuality.
Actually, no hate laws or bullying laws that I am aware of create protected classes.
| 322 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:41:37pm |
re: #260 HoosierHoops
I don’t care for Bullies.. I don’t recall ever being Bullied in School…
But there were times I’ve stepped in for my classmates in school
*maybe you want a piece of me*
I was kind of popular in school so I never really had to back it up and could get a Bully to shut up and back off…
Of course there was this other guy on the Basketball team that I fought with in practice all the time..Drove the coach insane…It was the kind of fight we would just rolled around the floor and people would pull us apart…A lot of yelling and stuff but no punches thrown…
I got my first suspension in the 3rd grade because he was being bullied and it continued until he finally had a major growth spurt the summer between middle and high school. I got my last suspension as a jr and he was a freshman. As a sr. I was voted “most likely to go to prison”. In my, and his, defense we moved a lot. I never started and finished a year at the same school until I was in high school so we were always the new kids.
| 323 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:41:42pm |
re: #291 Charles
Wanna talk about bullies — growing up in Hawaii, in the public schools they had something called “Kill Haole Day,” the last day of school. At the end of the day, the locals would line up on one side of the school yard and wait for “haoles” (white kids) to come out, then pounce on them and kick the living crap out of them. It was a mob composed entirely of bullies.
I avoided this festive occasion twice, by ducking out of the last class 30 minutes before the end. But I had a friend who actually ended up in the hospital one year.
Youch! Glad you avoided that. I wonder why that was even tolerated though. That sort of thing really should be stepped on, hard.
| 324 |
Guanxi88 Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:41:45pm |
re: #318 Decatur Deb
Do you wear a Borgia Ring?
[Link: www.eclecticvintage.com…]
No, but I do carry a snuff box, oddly enough.
(Eh, you’d never fit enough ipecac in something like that.)
| 325 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:41:50pm |
re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist
TorrentPrime did a good job of explaining that he (he?) is attempting to define examples as opposed to motivations.
I think you’re being helpful along similar lines.
I think it’s perfectly logical to enumerate examples of banned behavior, and I’m sorry if that’s what you and/or others meant all along and it took me this long to get it…
| 326 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:42:13pm |
re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist
‘cuz straight kids never get called ‘fag’ as a form of bullying.
/oh wait!
| 327 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:42:58pm |
re: #313 Silvergirl
Wow. Still having incidents in 2006. That’s barbaric.
Man that just sucks! I’d just love to toss a bunch of those racist little brats into a school in south central L.A. and see how they fare!
| 328 |
Guanxi88 Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:43:14pm |
re: #314 MandyManners
Going ape-shit on someone can be very intimidating.
Exactly true. If they’re pretty sure that you’re harmless if left alone, but unpredictable when agitated, persons of ill intent will give you a wide berth.
| 329 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:43:16pm |
re: #325 Aceofwhat?
I think your actual mistake was in thinking saying “this behavior is banned” meant also that “that behavior isn’t banned”
330 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:43:27pm |
re: #323 Dark_Falcon
My high school, all white, was totally lawless with kids getting the crap kicked out of them all the time. They’d set fires and shit. Out trophy case had wire mesh, ‘cuz glass got broken.
It sucked hardcore. Oh, and the teachers were bullies, too.
| 331 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:43:29pm |
re: #325 Aceofwhat?
TorrentPrime did a good job of explaining that he (he?) is attempting to define examples as opposed to motivations.
I think you’re being helpful along similar lines.
I think it’s perfectly logical to enumerate examples of banned behavior, and I’m sorry if that’s what you and/or others meant all along and it took me this long to get it…
Ace, let me take this a step further: if a bill ever comes along that says, “the action and the motivation must be listed in sub-section Q in order to be banned”, I’ll join you in opposing it.
| 332 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:43:39pm |
re: #314 MandyManners
Going ape-shit on someone can be very intimidating.
Don’t try to out-weird me, three eyes - I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal.
| 333 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:43:58pm |
re: #319 torrentprime
Right on all counts, assuming gays still count as men.
(Kidding!)
you’re all man, baby. you can even grab my ass. i just can’t reciprocate.
| 335 |
Guanxi88 Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:44:12pm |
re: #311 SanFranciscoZionist
I still imagine myself to be very tall. (I’m 5 foot 6.) Going to mostly Chinese schools will do that to you.
I’m surrounded by Chinese at work, but, oddly enough, they’re all of them (except for the women) taller than I am. Even they notice it.
| 336 |
brookly red Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:44:44pm |
re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist
There is no such thing here. A straight kid is also protected from bullying based on sexuality.
Actually, no hate laws or bullying laws that I am aware of create protected classes.
When you come right down to it IMO, bullying is the root cause of gangs…
| 338 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:45:23pm |
re: #335 Guanxi88
Heh, the first (certainly wrong) thought that came to mind was “Malnutrition as a kid”.
| 339 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:45:45pm |
re: #281 Guanxi88
In middle school -with a strict no-fighting policy - had a beef with one of my classmates. He was taller, stronger, and, in general, better built for combat than I was.
I removed my glasses, folded my hands behind my back, and invited him to take a shot, but, if he did, he should know that I’ll settle the score later.
A swing, a pop, and out flies a tooth and blood.
It was stupid and childish, and, in the weeks that followed, he and I patched over our differences and got to be kinda chummy.
Brought him his soda one day at lunch. Cherry Coke it was.
He took a nice long drink and slowly turned green and bolted for the bathroom. He was in the stall, convulsing from the dry heaves that a doubled-up dose of ipecac syrup will cause to a person who’s already vomited himself clean.
He looked up at me.
“Gotcha, ya son of a bitch!” And then I kicked him in the back of the head.
Same punishment for that as if I’d have thrown a punch back at the start of it.
Oddly enough, I never had any problems like that again.
Back when I was teaching middle school, a colleague of mine had a student who was being hassled by another seventh grade boy. The bully was tiny, the bullied was a big guy for their age.
He couldn’t get this kid to stop. He couldn’t bring himself to hit a much smaller child. So on this fateful day, when they were in the boy’s room together, and the bully started in again, this kid grabbed the other child’s backpack, slung it in the urinal, unzipped his pants and peed on it.
It was one of those conferences where the adults need to keep stern faces but keep having to leave the room to giggle.
| 340 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:45:46pm |
re: #335 Guanxi88
I’m surrounded by Chinese at work, but, oddly enough, they’re all of them (except for the women) taller than I am. Even they notice it.
Watching the Olympics figure-skating competition, it is very hard not to notice that the Western girls are so much bigger than the Asians.
| 341 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:45:50pm |
re: #331 torrentprime
Ace, let me take this a step further: if a bill ever comes along that says, “the action and the motivation must be listed in sub-section Q in order to be banned”, I’ll join you in opposing it.
we’re in lockstep.
| 343 |
Guanxi88 Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:46:28pm |
re: #338 windsagio
Heh, the first (certainly wrong) thought that came to mind was “Malnutrition as a kid”.
In my case, just untold generations of Slavic Jews in the background. We get the occasional Volga boatman, but most of us are kinda small….
| 344 |
Silvergirl Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:46:47pm |
(quick cartoon—not a big read)
| 345 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:47:06pm |
re: #290 Alouette
You still don’t get it. I was not picked on because I was perceived to be “gay.” I was picked on because I was short, skinny and wore glasses. The fat kids were also picked on. Nobody was picked on for being “gay” although this was back in the 50’s/60’s.
That’s also not allowed. Which isn’t to say that, like all the rest of this, it doesn’t happen.
| 346 |
brookly red Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:47:09pm |
re: #342 MandyManners
I thought one cause is the lack of a cohesive family of origin.
safety in numbers… same as it ever was.
| 348 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:47:43pm |
re: #329 windsagio
I think your actual mistake was in thinking saying “this behavior is banned” meant also that “that behavior isn’t banned”
no, i was saying (and still am) that “this behavior is banned if done for reason X” is illogical if the behavior is already banned outright.
my mistake was thinking that TP and SFZ disagreed on that point. they do not.
| 349 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:48:01pm |
re: #344 Silvergirl
I love that one, because its a realistic depiction of what actually happens to the ‘mouthy, smart, yet smaller’ kid >>
| 350 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:48:10pm |
re: #291 Charles
Wanna talk about bullies — growing up in Hawaii, in the public schools they had something called “Kill Haole Day,” the last day of school. At the end of the day, the locals would line up on one side of the school yard and wait for “haoles” (white kids) to come out, then pounce on them and kick the living crap out of them. It was a mob composed entirely of bullies.
I avoided this festive occasion twice, by ducking out of the last class 30 minutes before the end. But I had a friend who actually ended up in the hospital one year.
Southern Poverty Law Center’s magazine did a piece on anti-white hate crimes in Hawaii last year.
My husband grew up there. Still got some issues.
| 351 |
Guanxi88 Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:48:19pm |
re: #339 SanFranciscoZionist
Back when I was teaching middle school, a colleague of mine had a student who was being hassled by another seventh grade boy. The bully was tiny, the bullied was a big guy for their age.
He couldn’t get this kid to stop. He couldn’t bring himself to hit a much smaller child. So on this fateful day, when they were in the boy’s room together, and the bully started in again, this kid grabbed the other child’s backpack, slung it in the urinal, unzipped his pants and peed on it.
It was one of those conferences where the adults need to keep stern faces but keep having to leave the room to giggle.
See, the kid getting hassled in this case - a bright, inventive, and decisive young man like that - well, he’s the kinda guy you want on your side.
| 352 |
Political Atheist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:49:07pm |
re: #283 MandyManners
Dominance and violence are hard wired into the majority of the male human being. We are literally built to fight. Physiology and all.
| 353 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:49:32pm |
re: #311 SanFranciscoZionist
Sixth and seventh grades the girls shot up. It was a mostly Asian school. I and about five other black and Caucasian girls were suddenly taller than anyone.
I still imagine myself to be very tall. (I’m 5 foot 6.) Going to mostly Chinese schools will do that to you.
Here in L.A. I have to look down at a majority of the women I meet and I’m 5”5. Some of them are down right tiny and I feel huge! I’ve even helped a few at the grocery store because they cant reach the item they want on the top shelf!
| 354 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:50:02pm |
When my oldest daughter was having difficulty socializing in her school because she lived in the “wrong” neighborhood, we transferred her to another school and she made a variety of friends. She also included in her circle of friends, other girls that she sensed were being shunned for various reasons (the overweight girl, the goth girl, etc.)
| 355 |
keloyd Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:50:21pm |
I got out of Hawaii early enough to avoid Kill Haole Day (at age 0.5), but heard about it from the parents. As long as Hawaii is only 1/4 white, who’s going to stop it? No one that’s who. Human nature is nudged a little by religion and laws and adults when we’re small. Mostly, we’re just one more species that belongs on the Discovery Channel fighting over territory and females.
| 356 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:50:39pm |
re: #338 windsagio
Heh, the first (certainly wrong) thought that came to mind was “Malnutrition as a kid”.
Might be something to it. A study of the 1950 and subsequent generations in Korea would show. It’s the genotype-phenotype thing. All ROK army guards serving in the Joint Security Area were required to be over 6 ft, do freak out their DPRK counterparts.
| 358 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:51:23pm |
re: #354 Alouette
When my oldest daughter was having difficulty socializing in her school because she lived in the “wrong” neighborhood, we transferred her to another school and she made a variety of friends. She also included in her circle of friends, other girls that she sensed were being shunned for various reasons (the overweight girl, the goth girl, etc.)
Your daughter is a really good kid, I can tell!
| 359 |
Guanxi88 Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:51:24pm |
re: #354 Alouette
When my oldest daughter was having difficulty socializing in her school because she lived in the “wrong” neighborhood, we transferred her to another school and she made a variety of friends. She also included in her circle of friends, other girls that she sensed were being shunned for various reasons (the overweight girl, the goth girl, etc.)
Before getting transferred to a military academy (for the ipecac incident) I was part of such a group. Outkasts Local 13, we called ourselves, like we were in a union or something.
| 360 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:52:00pm |
re: #357 MandyManners
Girls, and women in general, are vicious. Guys just beat each other, women are MEAN!
| 361 |
brookly red Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:52:09pm |
| 362 |
Political Atheist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:52:22pm |
| 363 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:52:37pm |
re: #355 keloyd
What the hell do you mean “As long as Hawaii is only 1/4 white, who’s going to stop it?”
You think that non-white people are incapable of not bullying white people? What the hell, dude?
| 365 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:52:49pm |
re: #359 Guanxi88
I get the feeling that that really develops in HS (I know it did at my schools). Except for the one or 2 poor kids who are at the absolute BOTTOM of the pecking order (I’m sure everyone can remember who it was their year), in HS you seem to congeal into groups that stick together and stay away from everyone else.
| 366 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:52:50pm |
re: #304 torrentprime
I don’t get it? So when I was bullied incessantly for being fat and a nerd for 3 years of junior high that got so bad, my parents took me to an anger management counselor to learn to deal and threatened to sue the bully’s parents? LOL. Trust me, I get it.
What you are focusing on is the erroneous belief that only certain classes get protection. That is not and never has been the case in these laws, and certainly not in anything I’ve defended.
I got taken to a child psychologist in the sixth grade. To learn to change my behavior so I’d get better grades and stop blaming the other kids for my problems. (It is a fallacy to think that being shoved into your locker and called ‘Snausage meat’ is a reason to let your grades slip.)
Dr. B can kiss my ass.
| 367 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:53:08pm |
re: #352 Rightwingconspirator
Dominance and violence are hard wired into the majority of the male human being. We are literally built to fight. Physiology and all.
Quite Concur.
| 370 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:53:48pm |
re: #360 RogueOne
Girls, and women in general, are vicious. Guys just beat each other, women are MEAN!
heard a comedian say the other day (vulgarity removed here)…
“boys screw things up. girls are screwed up.”
| 371 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:54:20pm |
re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist
I got taken to a child psychologist in the sixth grade. To learn to change my behavior so I’d get better grades and stop blaming the other kids for my problems. (It is a fallacy to think that being shoved into your locker and called ‘Snausage meat’ is a reason to let your grades slip.)
Dr. B can kiss my ass.
OMFG. Really? That’s horrible.
| 372 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:54:29pm |
| 373 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:54:31pm |
re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist
When I was leaving my high school and telling the principal why I was leaving— that he let the bullies rule the school and abandoned any pretense of control— the principal just said, “Fine, run away and let them win.”
What an asshole.
| 375 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:55:15pm |
| 376 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:55:37pm |
re: #357 MandyManners
Girl-bullying is more psychological.
Um, Mandy I hate to differ with you but in my experience I got picked on and beaten up by a lot more girls than guys. There was a pair that even went so far as to destroy every book of mine they could lay their hands on. The ring leader went to jail for assault and battery as well as attempted murder just 6 months after I managed to back her down from really whaling on me! Don’t as me how I managed it, to this day I really don’t know how I got her to back down.
| 378 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:55:49pm |
re: #375 Aceofwhat?
Heh. I’ll just come right back in.
| 379 |
brookly red Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:55:55pm |
re: #368 windsagio
Or someone is thrown out the window.
huh, a local verbal warning has long been “can you fly?” … gravity is after all the universal weapon.
| 380 |
wrenchwench Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:55:56pm |
re: #354 Alouette
When my oldest daughter was having difficulty socializing in her school because she lived in the “wrong” neighborhood, we transferred her to another school and she made a variety of friends. She also included in her circle of friends, other girls that she sensed were being shunned for various reasons (the overweight girl, the goth girl, etc.)
One year my best friend and I started defending the most picked on girl in grade school. But it was in a strange way. We’d go touch hands with her and pick up the “cooties” and then chase the other kids and tag them with the cooties, then go back to Mary and get some more. It made Mary laugh and smile, which was quite unusual.
| 381 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:56:06pm |
re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist
I got taken to a child psychologist in the sixth grade. To learn to change my behavior so I’d get better grades and stop blaming the other kids for my problems. (It is a fallacy to think that being shoved into your locker and called ‘Snausage meat’ is a reason to let your grades slip.)
Dr. B can kiss my ass.
Still, it likely was the best idea your parents had. They couldn’t affect the bullying culture, so they tried to get make you less likely to be targeted by it. Not nice, but I do understand it.
| 382 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:56:10pm |
re: #345 SanFranciscoZionist
That’s also not allowed. Which isn’t to say that, like all the rest of this, it doesn’t happen.
I think what Alouette is saying, if I understand correctly, is that traditional bullying is, at its core, not motivated by race, religion, sexual orientation or the violation of any other category of “human rights”. Instead, it is generally motivated by the simple animal desire of one individual to physically dominate another weaker individual.
| 383 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:56:24pm |
re: #377 MandyManners
I suspect your spirit is already pretty much broken by the time you get enough experience to be a Principal. >>
| 384 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:56:36pm |
You guys are making very happy I “wasted” High School +1 in the seminary. I think I remember a fight. (If someone lost a watch, it would be pinned to the bulletin board until the owner picked it up). Social life sucked though.
| 386 |
brookly red Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:57:22pm |
re: #374 MandyManners
Never saw a weapon in my travails. However, I whipped out a knife on one but in court no one could testify to what it looked like.
well the Bronx is and was a very unique place…
| 387 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:57:23pm |
re: #384 Decatur Deb
No kidding. These stories make me think my HS was freakin’ paradise >>
| 388 |
keloyd Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:57:34pm |
re: #363 Obdicut
What the hell do you mean “As long as Hawaii is only 1/4 white, who’s going to stop it?”
You think that non-white people are incapable of not bullying white people? What the hell, dude?
I will clarify. The minority without strength of numbers is always at a disadvantage. Change the ethnicity of who is 1/4 and who is 3/4 and the result is always the same. In Malaysia or Indonesia where the minority is the Chinese, I’m guessing it’s the same. It’s in our DNA to split into factions and start some shite.
In Hawaii, I’m out of the loop now, but I’m guessing the Asian parents will say it’s a shame, but not get too exersized about it. The White parents will say it’s a shame, but there’s not enough of them. We are all as bad as each other.
| 391 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:58:27pm |
re: #389 MandyManners
oh don’t worry, I still think its absolutely awful. Its just interesting to think about why people do things :p
| 392 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:58:32pm |
re: #388 keloyd
There are plenty of places with minorities of 1/4 that don’t get systemically picked on and fucked with.
| 393 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:59:07pm |
Bullying behavior is one of the things we look for when evaluating job applicants. We have interns and college students who are often quite vulnerable, while some ARE bullies themselves, so we have to be especially careful about it. There are some signs you can look for, like a swaggering stance from someone who is in fact overweight and in poor condition. I also watch very closely how applicants behave around other employees in contrast to how they behave with those in authority.
That brings up another, related, thing I won’t tolerate, a lack of respect for people who do honest work. The latter, unfortunately, is endemic in this part of the country. A friend of mine, a cultural historian, hypothesizes that this is a distorted legacy of the slave-holding culture. There is a publisher here who is the world’s worst about this. She once sat across from me and referred to secretaries, janitors, and the like as “peons” with whom she could not be bothered. I told her to get her ass out of my building before I called my (very large) secretary to throw her out.
I did not invent these policies myself, of course. I learned a lot of it from Southwest Airlines, which for many years was voted the “best company in America to work for.” They applied the “no asshole rule” for decades before the term was coined. They had a policy that an applicant who was rude or demeaning to anyone in the company or associated with it would not be hired, regardless of the applicant’s qualifications and the company’s other needs. It didn’t matter if you were a senior captain with 10,000 hours of heavy jet time, if you were rude the security guard, the janitor, or the receptionist, you would have to seek employment elsewhere. It seems to have paid off for them.
| 394 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:59:33pm |
re: #392 Obdicut
The culture is inherently sick in Hawaii, as compared to this issue. I don’t actually think there is any solution… Even populations would certainly make the fight evener tho’ :p
| 395 |
brookly red Tue, Mar 2, 2010 2:59:52pm |
re: #390 MandyManners
This was in a small, Southern town.
Southern? hmmm let me not get into the South Bronx…
| 397 |
Silvergirl Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:01:41pm |
re: #380 wrenchwench
One year my best friend and I started defending the most picked on girl in grade school. But it was in a strange way. We’d go touch hands with her and pick up the “cooties” and then chase the other kids and tag them with the cooties, then go back to Mary and get some more. It made Mary laugh and smile, which was quite unusual.
That is a strange way. I wonder if Mary was smiling and laughing to keep from crying. Was she more accepted after the cooties thing?
| 398 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:02:11pm |
re: #394 windsagio
I think that things that look unsolvable in the current moment can basically vanish in a single generation. I’m amazed by how far race relations, and treatment of homosexuals, has progressed in my short life.
| 400 |
RogueOne Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:02:18pm |
Gotta run folks. If I don’t do my chores before my spouse gets home….she’ll beat me.
Enjoy your night.
| 401 |
Political Atheist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:02:20pm |
re: #357 MandyManners
I think so too. If you look at how we are built, you will notice the big blood vessels like arteries and the big nerve routes are on the inside of our arms and legs. Evolution is smart.
| 402 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:02:39pm |
re: #326 windsagio
‘cuz straight kids never get called ‘fag’ as a form of bullying.
/oh wait!
The really fun discussion is “OK, you’re straight, and he’s straight, and you like screaming “fag” at each other for fun, and no one’s feelings are hurt. It’s still not appropriate, kiddos!”
Also, the pure terror you can create in a group of pubescent boys by telling them that ten percent of them will be gay. “It could be ANY of you!!! Bwaahahah!”
| 403 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:02:40pm |
re: #385 MandyManners
Sounds as if they had some serious mental/personality disorder issues.
I was talking about the kind of bullying that is more subtle.
Oh I got plenty of that. My best friend was 5’9” blond and gorgeous and she liked to hang out with two others just like her. They called me her shadow because I was 5’5” and dark haired. Those two made my life miserable and made sure I knew I wasn’t welcome to hang out with them. Good thing my best friend stood up to them or else they would have trashed me too just like the two I mentioned before.
| 404 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:03:50pm |
re: #398 Obdicut
Maybe. The underlying problems in Hawaii (the SPLC story is really good on this) make resolution very difficult. To get change like we’ve had with gays, you need a universal acceptance that the actions are wrong. In HI, you have the bullies believing that they’re the aggrieved party, and thats a tough nut to crack.
| 405 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:04:24pm |
re: #393 Shiplord Kirel
Oh man, you reminded me of something at work that made me so mad.
We have Flor, a nice lady who comes into the office and does the trash, makes the coffee, and yes, cleans the bathrooms. When she cleans the bathrooms, obviously, we can’t use them.
At some marketing party, some of the marketing assholes had made up a song mocking her, with lyrics asking what the hell she was doing in there. And they didn’t even know her name. It made me fucking red with anger. Luckily HR felt the same way and chewed their asses out.
If someone fucking cleans up your disgusting mess, you give them respect. Jesus.
| 407 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:04:58pm |
re: #396 MandyManners
That’s why it’s very instructive to notice how a date treats waitstaff in a restaurant.
I love the Wait staff in restaurants..I like to be kind, Fun and tip well..
The next time you visit you get the best service in the world..
It’s called a seed and an enjoyable evening
| 408 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:05:44pm |
re: #404 windsagio
Sure. I’m just saying when I was younger I thought there was no way the tiny minority of gays would ever be able to be open in high schools anywhere— being ‘gay’ when I was a kid was total social ostracism. I’m just saying don’t give up on cultural shift, but not that it necessarily comes easy.
| 409 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:06:01pm |
re: #398 Obdicut
I think that things that look unsolvable in the current moment can basically vanish in a single generation. I’m amazed by how far race relations, and treatment of homosexuals, has progressed in my short life.
see? we can adapt quickly!
(i kid…i kid…)
| 410 |
Political Atheist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:06:07pm |
re: #404 windsagio
Take a look at the history, if you have not already. They are the aggrieved party. Not to justify of course!
| 411 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:06:20pm |
re: #402 SanFranciscoZionist
hah! That’s brutal >>
I sometimes feel like ‘fag’ is to some degree sliding away from especially referring to gays (see: moron), but we’re still a long ways from that.
| 412 |
Political Atheist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:06:48pm |
re: #408 Obdicut
Or fast… These things take time.
| 413 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:08:42pm |
re: #407 HoosierHoops
I love the Wait staff in restaurants..I like to be kind, Fun and tip well..
The next time you visit you get the best service in the world..
It’s called a seed and an enjoyable evening
NOW it’s getting interesting.
Used to be a waiter. Nowadays, when i go out, I’m always polite, regardless of what happens (because if something really sucks, you yell at the manager, not the waiter) but I find that i’m harder on their tips than my friends.
Funny how your standards change once you’ve done a job and feel you did it right…
| 414 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:09:06pm |
re: #408 Obdicut
Sure. I’m just saying when I was younger I thought there was no way the tiny minority of gays would ever be able to be open in high schools anywhere— being ‘gay’ when I was a kid was total social ostracism. I’m just saying don’t give up on cultural shift, but not that it necessarily comes easy.
Amen. When I read stories (from outsports.com and similar) of high school football players coming out openly in high school, it makes me weep. It wasn’t and never will be easy, but it is nice to know that America and the world in general didn’t need 200 years to work this one out.
| 415 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:09:07pm |
re: #410 Rightwingconspirator
Their way of dealing with it is awful :p
I do grant your point. They have a reason to be upset.
Its something I want to be really critical of, but hell, what would I do if I were in that situation?
| 416 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:09:16pm |
re: #404 windsagio
Maybe. The underlying problems in Hawaii (the SPLC story is really good on this) make resolution very difficult. To get change like we’ve had with gays, you need a universal acceptance that the actions are wrong. In HI, you have the bullies believing that they’re the aggrieved party, and thats a tough nut to crack.
Especially if they are, in classic liberal terms, the aggrieved parties in the sense of belonging to an expoited ethnic or socio-economic group.
| 417 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:09:25pm |
re: #396 MandyManners
I love the way you think Mandy, you just confirmed the reason why you are one of my favs to converse with… :-)
| 418 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:09:37pm |
re: #369 MandyManners
What did he tell you to do?
We worked on getting in touch with the ‘rebellious SFZ’ who prevented me from doing my best.
| 419 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:09:56pm |
re: #396 MandyManners
That’s why it’s very instructive to notice how a date treats waitstaff in a restaurant.
What an excellent idea! It wouldn’t cost much to invite applicants to lunch and see how they behave. I might try to start arranging that. Better yet, I could send them without me after arranging for a report from the wait staff. I know an ideal place for this, not too expensive and they know me pretty well.
| 420 |
keloyd Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:10:15pm |
re: #392 Obdicut
There are plenty of places with minorities of 1/4 that don’t get systemically picked on and fucked with.
True. Those are some nice places. There are others that are much worse than one day a year of crap. I’m sort of lucky growing up in a more diverse environment with just barely a plurality of Anglos. I had to deal with a mix of upper class and poor hispanics, black kids, Jewish kids, Asians, and “other”. It’s better that way. It kept the kids so mixed that we pick our friends by some other criteria, in my experience.
| 421 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:11:17pm |
re: #416 Spare O’Lake
I’m not sure if I’d go too far with ‘exploited’ (from my research anyways). Wrongly conquered and deprived of their nation, sure.
| 422 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:11:33pm |
re: #419 Shiplord Kirel
What an excellent idea! It wouldn’t cost much to invite applicants to lunch and see how they behave. I might try to start arranging that. Better yet, I could send them without me after arranging for a report from the wait staff. I know an ideal place for this, not too expensive and they know me pretty well.
yep. we always took management applicants to lunch, and that was one of the main reasons. get their guard down so that you can see what they’ll be like with their guard down.
423 |
Authoritarian F*ckpuddles Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:11:37pm |
re: #364 MandyManners
And, girl-bullying is planned.
Bullying by women can also have a bigger social element. In fact, social ostracism of the target is frequently the goal. Often, the bul;ly in such a case will network, getting as many other women as possible on their side, and conduct whispering campaigns against their target. They offer lies - usually easily disproven were they to see the light of day - to people who have a pre existing motive for not liking that person, and whom they can feel confident will buy what they are selling without asking too many questions. Their targets cannot respond to whatever is being said about them, so they cannot counter it, unless it eventually surfaces in public. I think this is one of those forms of bullying that actually is intrinsically cowardly. Very nasty stuff.
| 424 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:12:25pm |
re: #381 Dark_Falcon
Still, it likely was the best idea your parents had. They couldn’t affect the bullying culture, so they tried to get make you less likely to be targeted by it. Not nice, but I do understand it.
I get it. And there were a bunch of issues involved. I was going to a ‘gifted and talented’ academic program I’d tested into, and my parents were being told that keeping me in it was a lot more important than my mental health.
One nice thing about having kids later in life, I think, is that some of the crap my parents went through with being given lousy advice—I’m going to be ten-twelve years older than they were, and more set in my ways.
| 425 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:12:45pm |
re: #419 Shiplord Kirel
What an excellent idea! It wouldn’t cost much to invite applicants to lunch and see how they behave. I might try to start arranging that. Better yet, I could send them without me after arranging for a report from the wait staff. I know an ideal place for this, not too expensive and they know me pretty well.
Man, what I wouldn’t give to find a boss like you someday…
| 426 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:13:00pm |
re: #411 windsagio
hah! That’s brutal >>
I sometimes feel like ‘fag’ is to some degree sliding away from especially referring to gays (see: moron), but we’re still a long ways from that.
It is sliding away. (More personal TMI:) Most of my friends are straight, and they all decided on a rule. Whenever they call anything gay or call someone a fag (several times a day, normally), they must look to me or yell if they think I am in earshot and say, “Love you, [torrent]” They know they don’t mean homosexuals, and I know they don’t mean anything by it, so it’s never a foul, but they know what the word is and what it could sound like, and, so, they adapt. N.B. : I had nothing to do with this rule; they all came up with it on their own.
Not to mention the brilliant southpark on this topic.
| 427 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:13:21pm |
re: #414 torrentprime
Amen. When I read stories (from outsports.com and similar) of high school football players coming out openly in high school, it makes me weep. It wasn’t and never will be easy, but it is nice to know that America and the world in general didn’t need 200 years to work this one out.
Someday in the future when I retire I want either a bistro In Napa Valley or a titty bar..I’ve got time to make up my mind..*wink*
| 428 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:13:22pm |
re: #382 Spare O’Lake
I think what Alouette is saying, if I understand correctly, is that traditional bullying is, at its core, not motivated by race, religion, sexual orientation or the violation of any other category of “human rights”. Instead, it is generally motivated by the simple animal desire of one individual to physically dominate another weaker individual.
That’s true. I think it’s possible, though, to educate kids away from that, rather than toward it.
I have to say, Catholic schools are the best for that that I have seen so far.
| 429 |
albusteve Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:13:39pm |
re: #421 windsagio
I’m not sure if I’d go too far with ‘exploited’ (from my research anyways). Wrongly conquered and deprived of their nation, sure.
yup, depends on the definition of exploited…therefore one could just back up a agree their were robbed of the land and culture
| 430 |
wrenchwench Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:13:49pm |
re: #397 Silvergirl
That is a strange way. I wonder if Mary was smiling and laughing to keep from crying. Was she more accepted after the cooties thing?
Mary would be known as a “special needs” kid these days. I never saw her cry, but I’m pretty sure her life was very unhappy. One of her problems was incontinence. And she had false teeth. She liked to sing, which she did very badly. She’s still a mystery to me.
| 432 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:14:47pm |
re: #426 torrentprime
I forgot the SP on that very issue (which was a LITTLE heavy-handed, but brilliant :D). I was thinking of the earlier dust-up over “retard”.
Same thing tho’… how do you let the shift happen while still protecting the insulted parties from harm (harm in the loosest terms)?
| 433 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:16:14pm |
re: #429 albusteve
Their culture is relatively healthy. Certainly better than some mainland tribes I can think of.
~~
Actually I think thats why the HI thing sticks in my craw a little bit. The Indians have things so much worse, and aren’t dealing with it in this awful way.
| 434 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:17:00pm |
re: #425 Dragon_Lady
Man, what I wouldn’t give to find a boss like you someday…
Hahaha. Not so fast…he didn’t offer to pay for the lunch.
| 435 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:17:26pm |
re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist
I got taken to a child psychologist in the sixth grade. To learn to change my behavior so I’d get better grades and stop blaming the other kids for my problems. (It is a fallacy to think that being shoved into your locker and called ‘Snausage meat’ is a reason to let your grades slip.)
Dr. B can kiss my ass.
What a strange coincidence, my exotic dancer name is ‘Beggin’ Strips’.
| 436 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:17:28pm |
re: #433 windsagio
of course thats easy for me to say :P I have privilege up the yin-yang.
| 437 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:17:34pm |
re: #425 Dragon_Lady
Man, what I wouldn’t give to find a boss like you someday…
(Blush) Thank you. I can be very demanding and, er, I am not noted for patience; but I always try to put myself in the other person’s position.
| 438 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:18:08pm |
re: #405 Obdicut
Oh man, you reminded me of something at work that made me so mad.
We have Flor, a nice lady who comes into the office and does the trash, makes the coffee, and yes, cleans the bathrooms. When she cleans the bathrooms, obviously, we can’t use them.
At some marketing party, some of the marketing assholes had made up a song mocking her, with lyrics asking what the hell she was doing in there. And they didn’t even know her name. It made me fucking red with anger. Luckily HR felt the same way and chewed their asses out.
If someone fucking cleans up your disgusting mess, you give them respect. Jesus.
Worked at a school once where the parents were volunteer janitors.
Came the day when Mrs. Sanchez’s daughter explained to the boys that their bathroom had not been cleaned because it was too disgusting for her mother to think about.
Hope they recall the day they cleaned it themselves, and learned some dang respect.
| 439 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:18:16pm |
re: #432 windsagio
I forgot the SP on that very issue (which was a LITTLE heavy-handed, but brilliant :D). I was thinking of the earlier dust-up over “retard”.
Same thing tho’… how do you let the shift happen while still protecting the insulted parties from harm (harm in the loosest terms)?
It helps if “we” (we being the insulted party) aren’t assholes about it.
I’ve had several drunken conversations with good ol’ boys explaining that they are tired of feeling guilty for stuff they didn’t mean, and my way of handling such situations helped them “over” the issue. “My way” being near total indifference as long as the air is cleared at some point.
| 440 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:18:22pm |
re: #419 Shiplord Kirel
What an excellent idea! It wouldn’t cost much to invite applicants to lunch and see how they behave. I might try to start arranging that. Better yet, I could send them without me after arranging for a report from the wait staff. I know an ideal place for this, not too expensive and they know me pretty well.
You know, at my last job my desk was between two people that fought all the time when I first started working there.. when I left they were getting alone just fine because i worked real hard to keep the laughter flowing. I’ve been gone a year now and I hear their back to fighting again…*sigh*. All my hard work gone. :-(
| 441 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:18:26pm |
re: #435 goddamnedfrank
What a strange coincidence, my exotic dancer name is ‘Beggin’ Strips’.
Do you wear an eye patch in your act?
| 442 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:19:34pm |
re: #434 Spare O’Lake
Hahaha. Not so fast…he didn’t offer to pay for the lunch.
Nah, paying for lunch don matter, its the work place I’m talking about! I hate a hostile work place…
| 443 |
windsagio Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:19:57pm |
re: #439 torrentprime
That gets into the issue of advocacy groups of course.
You’re totally right tho’… any social circles with a fair number of gays in them (at least in my experience) tend to use the term a fair deal, but the discussion about it has generally come up at least once too.
Like you said, ‘clearing the air’.
| 444 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:22:09pm |
re: #437 Shiplord Kirel
(Blush) Thank you. I can be very demanding and, er, I am not noted for patience; but I always try to put myself in the other person’s position.
Hard work doesn’t scare me. I love it! It’s the attitude of the boss and co-workers that matter! Good attitude = less stress, less stress = happier me!
| 445 |
Donna Ballard Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:24:59pm |
Well, I have more housework to do. Dishes, pick up and a whole host of things I’m neglecting while chatting. Have a great evening and Keep Laughing Everyone! :-)
| 446 |
keloyd Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:25:01pm |
re: #433 windsagio
Their culture is relatively healthy. Certainly better than some mainland tribes I can think of.
~~
Actually I think thats why the HI thing sticks in my craw a little bit. The Indians have things so much worse, and aren’t dealing with it in this awful way.
I;m guessing it’s opportunity. Where else are white kids a minority AND the majority has a historical grudge? Put one English kid in an Irish school; put one Spaniard in a Basque school. Same thing, I’m guessing. How is it in NYC noaadays? I don’t know how much to believe from various movies.
In other news, everything we need to know about how to improve ethnic relations is in Clint Eastwoods movie Gran Torino.
| 447 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:25:40pm |
re: #443 windsagio
That gets into the issue of advocacy groups of course.
You’re totally right tho’… any social circles with a fair number of gays in them (at least in my experience) tend to use the term a fair deal, but the discussion about it has generally come up at least once too.
Like you said, ‘clearing the air’.
Yeah, I’m too laid back for serious in-your-face advocacy… but I do tend to mess with people who use the term around/to me without knowing it applies to me. Faking outrage and getting all huffy (“Oh no you dih-n’t!”) …. for about 10 seconds until I say, “just kidding. I’m f’ing with you. I’m gay, btw. ”
Amazing what humor can accomplish.
| 448 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:28:08pm |
re: #441 Decatur Deb
Do you wear an eye patch in your act?
You must have caught my act in the Big Easy. Yes, at the end it’s just me, the eyepatch, in ugg boots, and a deep lingering air of discomfort about the room.
| 449 |
Silvergirl Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:35:44pm |
My bullying story involving girls is when I was in 8th grade. I hung out with a girl named Cindy during the summer between 7th and 8th. I met her through another friend who I had gone to church with a few times. I didn’t go back to the church because it was fire and brimstone and speaking in tongues and it scared me—but that’s a tangent and another story altogether. So school starts and I naturally drifted into my usual circle of friends from the last school year, though I also attempted to include Cindy. Cindy was very possessive and apparently didn’t feel I was doing enough for her as a friend. I did have my bestest best friend Karen already and Cindy could barely tolerate her even though Karen was nice to her.
One day I got off at my bus stop and Cindy got off with a big thug of a girl. It was not Cindy’s bus stop and it wasn’t even Big Thug Girl’s bus. BTG does all this fake polite stuff and asks if she can hold my books and proceeds to gently take them out of my hands and put them on the ground. Then she tells me I might want to take off my clean white sweater (a cardigan) so I won’t get it dirty. As I’m taking it off and asking why it should get dirty, a side punch explodes in my ear. She grabbed my hair and was swinging me around by it. At some point Cindy took my sweater and spread it on the ground and sat on it. When the beating was over and I went staggering home with blood and bite marks everywhere, my mother didn’t even mess with the school. We piled in the car and went to the police station. I remember on the ride there my hair was coming out in big clumps as I was massaging my sore scalp.
I never saw either of the girls ever again, even to this day. Cindy was sent to Catholic school (by her Pentecostal parents) and I don’t know what the heck happened to BTG. She just disappeared.
Strange how this bully talks brings up things for so many of us that transports us instantly to our past.
| 450 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:37:28pm |
re: #449 Silvergirl
Strange how this bully talks brings up things for so many of us that transports us instantly to our past.
Agree. Worse? The feelings that Columbine evoked.
| 451 |
keloyd Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:41:26pm |
The question is what society has done that stripped away all the coping mechanisms from the kids (and not a few adults) that snap and kill a bunch of people. Bullying is a constant presence through all time and space, so bullying itself cannot be the cause.
| 452 |
torrentprime Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:48:33pm |
re: #451 keloyd
The question is what society has done that stripped away all the coping mechanisms from the kids (and not a few adults) that snap and kill a bunch of people. Bullying is a constant presence through all time and space, so bullying itself cannot be the cause.
I think (from personal experience) a sense of isolation and how stacked the deck is affects the victim. A powerless school, indifferent parents, an entire class on the bully’s side (all subjective, of course) can change how an individual sees the calculus of “fighting back.”
The situation of a kid who has several friends and a decent home life being bullied just isn’t the same as a kid who has no friends and absent parents (or, worse, parents that blame the victim!) going through the same.
Also, “bullying” that refers to systematic day-long abuse in a school zone isn’t the same as getting chased or picked on after school for 30 minutes a few times a week. It’s always a matter of degrees, imo.
| 453 |
Silvergirl Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:58:02pm |
re: #452 torrentprime
I think (from personal experience) a sense of isolation and how stacked the deck is affects the victim. A powerless school, indifferent parents, an entire class on the bully’s side (all subjective, of course) can change how an individual sees the calculus of “fighting back.”
The situation of a kid who has several friends and a decent home life being bullied just isn’t the same as a kid who has no friends and absent parents (or, worse, parents that blame the victim!) going through the same.
Also, “bullying” that refers to systematic day-long abuse in a school zone isn’t the same as getting chased or picked on after school for 30 minutes a few times a week. It’s always a matter of degrees, imo.
That’s for sure. Bullying in general sucks, but there are degrees and variations. Supportive parents are a godsend, and it’s a big support to have a few other friends to commiserate with. Who really knows which is worse in your examples of being chased and picked on vs. day-long abuse? I suppose that depends on what a person is feeling inside—how well they stand up to the abuse. I would rather have taken the beating I did than to be bullied day after day and have to suffer every day. I feel deeply for kids who eat lunch alone and who have to keep taking endless ridicule or are flat out ignored.
| 454 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Mar 2, 2010 4:07:42pm |
re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist
I got taken to a child psychologist in the sixth grade. To learn to change my behavior so I’d get better grades and stop blaming the other kids for my problems. (It is a fallacy to think that being shoved into your locker and called ‘Snausage meat’ is a reason to let your grades slip.)
Dr. B can kiss my ass.
LAUGH WITH THEM!
| 455 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Mar 2, 2010 4:19:40pm |
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
Abortions Outside Medical System Increased Sharply After Roe Fell, Study Finds The number of women using abortion pills to end their pregnancies on their own without the direct involvement of a U.S.-based medical provider rose sharply in the months after the Supreme Court eliminated a constitutional right to abortion, according ... Cheechako
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
