Sarah Palin’s Family Went to Canada for Health Care

Politics • Views: 7,522

Blatant hypocrisy — it’s spelled P-A-L-I-N: Sarah Palin sees eye-to-eye with Albertans in Calgary speech.

The vocal opponent of health-care reform in the U.S. steered largely clear of the topic except to reveal a tidbit about her life growing up not far from Whitehorse.

“We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada,” she said. “And I think now, isn’t that ironic?”

Good thing the “death panels” didn’t get her; we would have been deprived of Palin’s great wisdom.

LGF reader Killgore Trout points out that the wingnut blogs are trying to spin this by saying Canada didn’t switch to single payer health care until 1966 — but that’s highly misleading (as usual):

In 1957, the federal government passed the Hospital Insurance and Diagnostic Services Act to fund 50% of the cost of such programs for any provincial government that adopted them. The HIDS Act outlined five conditions: public administration, comprehensiveness, universality, portability, and accessibility. These remain the pillars of the Canada Health Act.

By 1961, all ten provinces had agreed to start HIDS Act programs. In Saskatchewan, the act meant that half of their current program would now be paid for by the federal government.

UPDATE at 3/8/10 3:41:40 pm:

LGF reader Jadespring adds:

She was born in Idaho in 1964 and move to Alaska when she was an infant. Single payer came in 1966. So in order for the defenders ‘defense’ to work she’d have to be talking about a very, very small window of time.

Jump to bottom

351 comments
1 Summer Seale  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:39:46pm

I'd channel her right now for everyone because it's been so long, but this is so easy and I'm having dinner right now....

2 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:39:48pm

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds - Emerson

A foolish inconsistency is the trademark of the wingnut - PT Barnum

3 researchok  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:39:51pm

There is this to consider: Maybe the closest quality care Palin needed was in Canada.

Wasilla is a long way off from UCLA Med.

4 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:40:04pm

I just posted on the other thread. You might want to add it Charles. She was born in Idaho in 1964 and move to Alaska when she was an infant. Single payer came in 1966. So in order for the defenders 'defense' to work she'd had to be talking about a very, very small window of time. :D

5 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:40:56pm

re: #3 researchok

There is this to consider: Maybe the closest quality care Palin needed was in Canada.

Wasilla is a long way off from UCLA Med.

But America has the greatest health care system in the world! Why would she want to go to Canada and deal with the death panels?
Also.

6 jaunte  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:41:50pm

Is she talking about a childhood experience or some time later?

7 darthstar  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:42:44pm

re: #6 jaunte

Is she talking about a childhood experience or some time later?

Sarah's still in the midst of a 'childhood experience'...probably always will be.

8 jaunte  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:43:16pm

re: #7 darthstar

I figured that would be one response, but do you know?

9 recusancy  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:43:48pm

re: #8 jaunte

I figured that would be one response, but do you know?

She doesn't specify, but does it matter?

10 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:44:11pm

Was that legal, what her family did?

11 jaunte  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:44:14pm

re: #9 recusancy

Well if it was a childhood recollection, she didn't make the decision.

12 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:44:42pm

re: #3 researchok

There is this to consider: Maybe the closest quality care Palin needed was in Canada.

Wasilla is a long way off from UCLA Med.

True. It's a pretty irrelevent story.

On the other hand, on top of the discovery that she and her married family get their health care through Todd's tribal membership--there's just something so horribly irritating about her on this topic.

13 darthstar  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:45:31pm

re: #8 jaunte

I figured that would be one response, but do you know?

My guess is that her parents used Canadian health care long enough for her to remember it...but I don't know. I also think she was just praising Canada's health care because she was in Canada.

14 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:45:40pm

re: #8 jaunte

I figured that would be one response, but do you know?

As a two year old, she should have had the foresight to know that one day decades later she would be in the political firestorm thereby insisting that her parents take her to the Mayo Clinic or Massachusetts General!
//

15 avanti  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:45:48pm

re: #8 jaunte

I figured that would be one response, but do you know?

If she was two or under, she has a remarkable memory for the event. If she was over two, she was using "socialized medical care" and survived.

16 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:45:59pm

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

It's like the teleprompter thing. It's not a big deal, except for the absolute hypocrisy of it.

17 jaunte  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:46:30pm

re: #13 darthstar

My guess is that her parents used Canadian health care long enough for her to remember it...but I don't know. I also think she was just praising Canada's health care because she was in Canada.

That's probably right on.

18 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:46:55pm

If anything, the complete meltdown of the wingnut right appears to be accelerating. How will it end? With a whimper or with an explosion?

19 jaunte  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:47:51pm

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

It will be fair and balanced: an explosive whimper.

20 recusancy  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:48:13pm

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

If anything, the complete meltdown of the wingnut right appears to be accelerating. How will it end? With a whimper or with an explosion?

Hopefully an implosion with no innocents hurt by shrapnel.

21 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:48:21pm

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

If anything, the complete meltdown of the wingnut right appears to be accelerating. How will it end? With a whimper or with an explosion?

I'm thinking it's last, dying gasp will be "Get offa my lawn, you damn kids"!

22 Kragar  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:48:29pm

OH NOES! TEH DEF PANELZ!

23 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:49:02pm

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

If anything, the complete meltdown of the wingnut right appears to be accelerating. How will it end? With a whimper or with an explosion?

My hope,,,implosion so those of us NON-wingnuts on the right aren't collateral damage!

24 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:49:45pm

re: #17 jaunte

That's probably right on.

Except that when asked about it before she says stuff like this, "“Canada needs to dismantle its public health-care system and allow private enterprise to get involved and turn a profit.”

25 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:49:49pm

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

I would say explosion, then ample whimpers.

26 Stanghazi  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:50:13pm

re: #3 researchok

There is this to consider: Maybe the closest quality care Palin needed was in Canada.

Wasilla is a long way off from UCLA Med.

Wasilla is a long way from Canada too. And Anchorage has hospitals.
The story is she was living in Skagway, which is close to the Canadian border.

But there's more.......

Apparently Palin at one point a few years ago described this emergency trip for her brother in a completely different way. They took a ferry to Juneau for his treatment. She was speaking with the ferry boat folks at that time, so who knows who she is pandering (lying) to.

In researching where the heck Skagway is, I also stumbled across an alternate version of her brother's Medicare story:

Palin drew from her Skagway past to illustrate her point. Her brother burned his foot badly jumping through a fire, and her mother had to take him down to Juneau on the ferry to the hospital. “All these years later, that’s still what people have to rely on here in some instances,” she said.

Calgary Herald

27 TampaKnight  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:50:15pm

I don't know WHY people continue to compare Canada to the US in this health care debate. The differences in population, culture, society, economics, goals, purposes, etc. are all vastly different.

And for the record, I still believe single payer health care in the US would be the biggest disaster ever.

28 avanti  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:51:00pm

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

If anything, the complete meltdown of the wingnut right appears to be accelerating. How will it end? With a whimper or with an explosion?

I've predicted that it will go so far that some conservative in high regard will risk standing up to it out of conscience, hopefully before something terrible happens.

29 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:51:29pm

If my Sarah Palin blow-up doll springs a leak, I'm taking her to Montreal.

30 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:51:35pm
31 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:51:55pm

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

If anything, the complete meltdown of the wingnut right appears to be accelerating. How will it end? With a whimper or with an explosion?

Not sure, the denial still continues and last time I checked the Hot Air thread nobody looked at the Wiki or brought up the fact that Palin probably recived healthcare at Canadian subsidized clinic. That the Wingnuts need is someone to excerpt the page for them with inconvenient facts deleted.
How will it end?
No clue but I suspect it will be a decade or two of Democrat presidents that might wake them up.

32 jaunte  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:52:28pm

re: #24 Jadespring

Except that when asked about it before she says stuff like this, "“Canada needs to dismantle its public health-care system and allow private enterprise to get involved and turn a profit.”

I guess Alberta provides a more sympathetic audience for her than most other places in Canada.

33 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:52:40pm

re: #29 Cato the Elder

If my Sarah Palin blow-up doll springs a leak, I'm taking her to Montreal Akron Ohio.


rubber capital of the world ,

two birds ,, one stone and all that!!

34 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:52:56pm

re: #26 Stanley Sea

Calgary Herald

For what it's worth, the wiki makes no mention of her living in Canada.

35 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:53:08pm

Eh, you know what? I think more Americans emigrate to Canada every year than the other way round.

36 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:53:12pm

OT: FHP: Driver lacked razor-sharp focus

Florida Highway Patrol troopers say a two-vehicle crash Tuesday at Mile Marker 21 on Cudjoe Key was caused by a 37-year-old woman driver who was shaving her bikini area while her ex-husband took the wheel from the passenger seat.

Wait, what?

37 researchok  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:53:49pm

re: #29 Cato the Elder

If my Sarah Palin blow-up doll springs a leak, I'm taking her to Montreal.

One the great cities.

38 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:55:13pm

Sarah Palin is the only person I know who is her own pimp and her own ho in one.

39 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:55:18pm

re: #27 TampaKnight

I don't know WHY people continue to compare Canada to the US in this health care debate. The differences in population, culture, society, economics, goals, purposes, etc. are all vastly different.

And for the record, I still believe single payer health care in the US would be the biggest disaster ever.

When there are those folks out there comparing socialized medicine or single payer healthcare as the first step into communism, then I think it's fair game.

40 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:56:33pm
She touched on climate change, saying that her skepticism has been vindicated by several recent controversies, and that money shouldn't be spent on “pie-in-the-sky, snake-oil ideas.”

Pull her string and hear real pablum come out!

41 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:57:14pm

Uh oh. Glenn Beck actually called Geert Wilders a "far right fascist" on his show today.

The shrieking harpy is stroking out.

42 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:57:18pm

re: #36 Slumbering Behemoth

Would you believe me if I told you that that happened to me once?

43 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:57:24pm

re: #26 Stanley Sea

Calgary Herald

Oh I'm sorry. She didn't say she lived there.

44 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:57:37pm

re: #32 jaunte

I guess Alberta provides a more sympathetic audience for her than most other places in Canada.

That's likely. Recently she was hired by a guy to come speak at a fundraiser for a hospital foundation in Ontario. She was to be paid a hundred or two hundred thousand dollars. They had to cancel her appearance because the outcry about having someone come and speak at a public institution with her stated viewpoint just didn't mesh and really was quite hypocritical. Many donors threatened to withhold their donations and the expected ticket sales just didn't happen.

45 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:57:55pm

re: #36 Slumbering Behemoth

OT: FHP: Driver lacked razor-sharp focus

Wait, what?

Thats not even the STRANGEST part

her ex-husband took the wheel from the passenger seat.


She said she was meeting her boyfriend in Key West

46 bratwurst  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:58:54pm

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

If anything, the complete meltdown of the wingnut right appears to be accelerating. How will it end?

Find out in the award-winning film The Butthurt Locker.

47 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:59:15pm

re: #41 Charles

Uh oh. Glenn Beck actually called Geert Wilders a "far right fascist" on his show today.

The shrieking harpy is stroking out.

LOOK ,, a pork sausage just flew by my window!

48 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 3:59:49pm

Btw, completely unrelated... it is insulting to the British to call them Brits?

49 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:00:19pm

re: #42 cliffster

Would you believe me if I told you that that happened to me once?

I don't think shaving your back is the same thing, though. Just sayin'.

50 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:01:21pm

re: #41 Charles

Uh oh. Glenn Beck actually called Geert Wilders a "far right fascist" on his show today.

The shrieking harpy is stroking out.

Hmmm, that doesn't sound like him. I wonder what's up with that.

51 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:02:12pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

Hmmm, that doesn't sound like WHAT I NEED him TO BE. I wonder what's up with that.

ftfy
//

52 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:02:14pm

re: #45 sattv4u2

Thats not even the STRANGEST part

her ex-husband took the wheel from the passenger seat.

She said she was meeting her boyfriend in Key West

Not to insult any of my fine Southern friends, but parts of Florida, even South Florida are a bit red-necky.

53 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:02:20pm

re: #26 Stanley Sea

I've been to Skagway. There's a road to it now I think but when I went the only way in was by train or boat. It was fun because we rode in an old fashioned caboose on the end of huge freight train. This would have been around the same era that Palin was there.

54 Olsonist  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:03:09pm

re: #3 researchok

Wasilla is 45 minutes from Anchorage.

55 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:03:45pm

re: #41 Charles

Uh oh. Glenn Beck actually called Geert Wilders a "far right fascist" on his show today.

The shrieking harpy is stroking out.

He probably fell off the wagon. Wait for retraction as soon as he's been to a couple of Mormon AA meetings.

56 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:03:46pm

re: #52 marjoriemoon

Not to insult any of my fine Southern friends, but parts of Florida, even South Florida are a bit red-necky.

Oh hell yeah ,,,,, The West coast especially ,,,, and don't EVEN get me started about parts of the panhandle. They don't call Panama City Beach The Redneck Riviera for nuffin!!

57 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:03:48pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

Hmmm, that doesn't sound like him. I wonder what's up with that.

One of crazy Pamela's readers has the scoop:

Haven't you heard Pam? Glenn has taken the blood money and changed sides on us. He now works for the Elites as their newest little bitch. He is spreading all types of lies these days.

Oh noes! They got to Glenn Beck! We're doomed!

58 Lidane  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:04:36pm

re: #41 Charles

That's not possible. Fascism is a leftist movement. Jonah Goldberg told me so!

/wingnut

59 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:05:26pm

re: #57 Charles

Oh noes! They got to Glenn Beck! We're doomed!

You owe me a new keyboard, Charles.

SMWO [spewed my wine out]

60 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:05:53pm

re: #57 Charles

Lol!

61 freetoken  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:06:05pm

re: #57 Charles

Wait! Are you telling me Beck is the Fed's bitch?

62 Gus  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:06:28pm

Sarah Palin's family goes to Canada for public (socialist!) health care while Glenn Beck went to the public library to self medicate educate!

Classic.

63 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:06:31pm

re: #52 marjoriemoon

If it had truly been rednecky, it would have been her dad in the backseat who was her ex husband.

64 ryannon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:06:41pm

re: #48 marjoriemoon

Btw, completely unrelated... it is insulting to the British to call them Brits?

Yes.

The proper expression is Twits.

/

65 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:06:45pm

re: #57 Charles

Oh noes! They got to Glenn Beck! We're doomed!

I wouldn't respect anything Glenn Beck says, or trust him. How can anyone after some of the crazy that has come from his "camp."

66 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:07:07pm

re: #61 freetoken

Wait! Are you telling me Beck is the Fed's bitch?

Edit the Fed!

That's what Luap Nor said, right?

67 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:07:21pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

btw ,,, did you call your insurance co today? If so, any luck?

68 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:07:47pm

re: #56 sattv4u2

Oh hell yeah ,,, The West coast especially ,,, and don't EVEN get me started about parts of the panhandle. They don't call Panama City Beach The Redneck Riviera for nuffin!!

The various Keys themselves are kind of mixed. Marathon is a pretty down home Southern town. Others have more summer homes and retirees. Also before you hit the Keys, the Redlands, Homestead, etc.

The central/northern part of Florida for sure.

69 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:07:48pm

re: #64 ryannon

Yes.

The proper expression is Twits.

/

Or, if you're a real Brit, twats. [doesn't mean what it means here]

70 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:08:07pm

Looks like Fox news isn't allowing people to post the Beck show on Youtube anymore. I'm surprised they let it go on this long.

71 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:08:22pm

re: #69 Cato the Elder

Or, if you're a real Brit, twats. [doesn't mean what it means here]

fags, twats, boots, bonnets..

72 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:08:29pm

re: #57 Charles

Oh noes! They got to Glenn Beck! We're doomed!

Oh take him back! We don't want him!

73 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:08:38pm

I've been searching for the video of Beck's statement on Wilders. As soon as I find it I'll post it. Can't wait for this one.

Meanwhile Powerline's Paul Mirengoff is promoting Geert Wilders's latest anti-Muslim rant. Which isn't surprising -- Mirengoff is Powerline's resident Eurofascist liaison. He also promotes the Vlaams Belang.

74 Gus  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:08:41pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Looks like Fox news isn't allowing people to post the Beck show on Youtube anymore. I'm surprised they let it go on this long.

Deletionism!

/

75 pharmmajor  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:09:15pm

Okay, this has been boiling up for too long, so please allow me to vent:

Fuck Sarah Palin, Fuck Barack Obama, Fuck George Bush, Fuck Hillary Clinton, Fuck Tom Delay, Fuck Nancy Pelosi, Fuck Harry Reid, Fuck John McCain, Fuck Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Moore, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, Ann Coulter, Bill Maher; fuck every pundit and politician who exploit hatred, fear and animosity to further their power base and fuck all the empty-headed sheep who call themselves "Democrats" and "Republicans" that mindlessly follow them.

76 ryannon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:09:52pm

re: #69 Cato the Elder

Or, if you're a real Brit, twats. [doesn't mean what it means here]

Just don't say it when you're sucking a fag.

77 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:10:12pm

re: #62 Gus 802

Sarah Palin's family goes to Canada for public (socialist!) health care while Glenn Beck went to the public library to self medicate educate!

Classic.

Spoooky.....

78 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:10:30pm

re: #75 pharmmajor

You gotta get out more and have sex once in awhile!

79 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:10:44pm

re: #76 ryannon

Just don't say it when you're sucking a fag.

in bed

80 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:11:43pm

re: #67 sattv4u2

btw ,,, did you call your insurance co today? If so, any luck?

Yeah I called them and figured it out. They can only hike rates once a year when my policy renews or when they move you into a new age bracket. I moved into a new age bracket in December and my policy renews in January. That pretty much doubled my premiums. They can't hike my rates again for another 10 months so I'll hang on a little longer and see what passes for reform and when it will take effect.

81 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:11:57pm

re: #73 Charles

I've been searching for the video of Beck's statement on Wilders. As soon as I find it I'll post it. Can't wait for this one.

Meanwhile Powerline's Paul Mirengoff is promoting Geert Wilders's latest anti-Muslim rant. Which isn't surprising -- Mirengoff is Powerline's resident Eurofascist liaison. He also promotes the Vlaams Belang.

How can you doubt Wilders? He gave a speech in front of old out-to-pasture politicians and inbred hereditary aristocrats the House of Lords.

82 jaunte  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:12:42pm

Rachel Maddow?

83 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:12:56pm

The wackos are really flooding Richard Metzger's site now:

[Link: www.dangerousminds.net...]

84 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:13:17pm

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

But don't we all have a "72 hour kit"??
He's always preaching on that one../

85 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:13:42pm

re: #64 ryannon

Yes.

The proper expression is Twits.

/

Noooo!! lol I have some British friends and I would like to playfully refer to them as Brits, but I don't know if that's a good thing or not and I don't want to insult them. Sorry if this is something obvious I should know already :p

86 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:14:01pm

re: #78 sattv4u2

You gotta get out more and have sex once in awhile!

I don't think he was using it that way..I think he was using it in the original meaning of the term from the Germanic fokken- to strike repeatedly

87 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:14:48pm

re: #85 marjoriemoon

Nooo!! lol I have some British friends and I would like to playfully refer to them as Brits, but I don't know if that's a good thing or not and I don't want to insult them. Sorry if this is something obvious I should know already :p

I believe they refer to themselves as "redcoats"

88 Gus  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:14:52pm

re: #73 Charles

I've been searching for the video of Beck's statement on Wilders. As soon as I find it I'll post it. Can't wait for this one.

Meanwhile Powerline's Paul Mirengoff is promoting Geert Wilders's latest anti-Muslim rant. Which isn't surprising -- Mirengoff is Powerline's resident Eurofascist liaison. He also promotes the Vlaams Belang.

Only reference from today that I found was this:

Far-right Dutch MP Geert Wilders last year was banned from the U.K. — they said his presence could "threaten community harmony and therefore public safety." But just last week he was not only in the country, he was at the House of Lords, where he screened a film on the Quran.

Which is from today and at his Fox News page here. He called him far-right. Otherwise I see no reference to fascist. I think the Shreiking Harpy might have been hearing voices.

89 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:14:54pm

re: #45 sattv4u2

That just had to be swingers going to party...

90 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:14:54pm

re: #85 marjoriemoon

Nooo!! lol I have some British friends and I would like to playfully refer to them as Brits, but I don't know if that's a good thing or not and I don't want to insult them. Sorry if this is something obvious I should know already :p

Go for the gold and call em Limeys

91 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:14:56pm

re: #85 marjoriemoon

Nooo!! lol I have some British friends and I would like to playfully refer to them as Brits, but I don't know if that's a good thing or not and I don't want to insult them. Sorry if this is something obvious I should know already :p

Brits are Brits and they're proud of its.

92 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:14:57pm

re: #80 Killgore Trout

Yeah I called them and figured it out. They can only hike rates once a year when my policy renews or when they move you into a new age bracket. I moved into a new age bracket in December and my policy renews in January. That pretty much doubled my premiums. They can't hike my rates again for another 10 months so I'll hang on a little longer and see what passes for reform and when it will take effect.


And they'll work with you on your tardiness in payment? Cause I thought THAT was the big issue the other night.

93 oldegeezr  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:15:30pm

Luv yeh…Luv Yah…lizards…!

I beat you all to press by 26 minutes…Mar 8, 2010 3:14:58pm /vs/ Mar 8, 2010 at 3:34:24

Geezer you olde bastard, you have to stay on topic…I’m sick and tired of your gottcha attitude…!

H&K’s…That’s Heckler and Kochs…
oxoxox...oldegeezr sends...
Hehehe…

My bad...!

94 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:15:38pm

re: #73 Charles

ah, how far my 2002 blog list has fallen...

95 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:15:47pm

re: #86 PT Barnum

I don't think he was using it that way..I think he was using it in the original meaning of the term from the Germanic fokken- to strike repeatedly

I know that ,,, but he seemed so ,,, well ,, pent up!!

KAAABBOOOMMMM!!!!!

96 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:15:54pm

re: #82 jaunte

Rachel Maddow?

I believe she only plays her side...so not a lot of that action going to be going on unless yours is artificial.

97 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:15:54pm

I also managed to talk the gas company into not shutting of the gas until Thursday. Good thing too, it's cold here and snowed a little this afternoon.

98 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:16:07pm

re: #75 pharmmajor

Dude, sometimes you have to work with what ya got.

99 ryannon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:16:32pm

re: #81 Cato the Elder

How can you doubt Wilders? He gave a speech in front of old out-to-pasture politicians and inbred hereditary aristocrats the House of Lords.

Pavlovian reaction to "House of Lords"

100 jaunte  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:17:23pm

re: #96 PT Barnum

She seems like the straightest news reporter in that list.

101 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:17:36pm

re: #92 sattv4u2

And they'll work with you on your tardiness in payment? Cause I thought THAT was the big issue the other night.

Yeah, I have them $400, a liitle less than half of what I owe. I will hopefully get caught up in the next month or two.

102 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:17:38pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

I also managed to talk the gas company into not shutting of the gas until Thursday. Good thing too, it's cold here and snowed a little this afternoon.

Hope things get better for you soon.

103 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:17:39pm

re: #75 pharmmajor

Why I could not have said it better myself. The closest I ever got in my humble efforts was this

"I want nothing to do with the pestilence of posturing pustular pundits."

104 ryannon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:18:00pm

re: #85 marjoriemoon

Nooo!! lol I have some British friends and I would like to playfully refer to them as Brits, but I don't know if that's a good thing or not and I don't want to insult them. Sorry if this is something obvious I should know already :p

I'd say it's the equivalent to calling us "Yanks".

In general, no harm meant by either expression.

105 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:18:41pm

re: #87 cliffster

I believe they refer to themselves as "redcoats"

You guys are bad. I love the British! What's not to love? Funny accents, silly walks. Actually it's probably the humor I like most, they are a funny bunch and the castles are pretty cool.

106 harry91  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:18:57pm

I lived in Whitehorse for many years.

1. Whitehorse in a Territory not a Province, they are pretty well ran by the Federal Government and have a toiken Parliament. If there are provincial meetings they are invited as an afterthought not as an equal member (at least when I was there).

2. If there was healthcare to be had pushed by the Feds they had it long before anyone else. The Federal government uses them as a shining example of centralized Federal Control.

3. They would have made them pay but the cost would have been pretty small. For around 20-50 dollars you can walk into a clinic and be seen by a doctor pretty well anywhere in Canada, no questions asked. In the US I've had different experiences in different states.

4. Skagway is across the border and it does makes sense that she came to Whitehorse, skagway is a shit hole. (no offence to those who live in skagway)

5. Palin is not an Alaskan, there I said it, Alaskans don't even call themselves American. I've gone on many a bender with Alaskans and they feel a stronger kinship with Canada than they do the US. Only the crazy methheads in Wasilla think different I guess.

I love Alaska and the people who live there, she is a stain on their good name.

End of my rant.

107 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:19:14pm

re: #61 freetoken

Wait! Are you telling me Beck is the Fed's bitch?

Another Pammy commenter weighs in...

He is paid by a muslim so he must make his masters happy. He also now believes in global warming. So defending islam is not even a stretch for him.

In an article entitled Don’t judge Beck by his cover, Beck tells interviewer Dennis McCafferty, “You’d be an idiot not to notice the temperature change.”

“He also says there’s a legit case that global warming has, at least in part, been caused by mankind,” writes McCafferty, under the subheadline, “He believes in global warming.”

Beck’s sudden conversion to the increasingly debunked man-made global warming belief system is a shocking stab in the back of conservatives who consider Beck to be their anointed leader.

Once again, Beck has exposed himself as a chameleon who changes his political viewpoints on a whim depending on whose company he keeps. Beck is nothing more than an actor, fake crying on demand like a circus clown, posturing as some kind of grass roots conservative leader when he has abandoned every true conservative principle.


That one ends with a link to infowars, of course.

108 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:19:18pm

re: #100 jaunte

She seems like the straightest news reporter in that list.

well this is true...although Jon Stewart comes up a close second or first in a lot of ways.

Kinda sad isn't it, the guy who is supposed to be a buffoon is a serious journalist and the guys who are supposed to be serious journalists are a bunch of buffoons (or baboons if you prefer)?

109 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:19:39pm

re: #101 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I have them $400, a liitle less than half of what I owe. I will hopefully get caught up in the next month or two.

Best thing you could have done, talking to them. I hope it continues to work out.

110 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:19:54pm

re: #102 PT Barnum

Hope things get better for you soon.

Thanks, I think I'll be ok. I paid off my mortgage last month and totally cleaned myself out. No more mortgage payments or wasted money on interest. I'll probably always be poor but it should be much easier for me in the near future.

111 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:19:58pm

re: #57 Charles

Oh noes! They got to Glenn Beck! We're doomed!

Circular Formation! Turn towards the center! Open fire!
;)

112 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:20:03pm

re: #88 Gus 802

Which is from today and at his Fox News page here. He called him far-right. Otherwise I see no reference to fascist. I think the Shreiking Harpy might have been hearing voices.

From that page, Beck said:

In France, polls have Nicolas Sarkozy (center right) at new lows — down to a 36 percent approval; meanwhile, Dominique de Villepin (far right) is at 57 percent.

The idiot is confusing Dominique de Villepin with Jean-Marie Le Pen.

113 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:20:26pm

re: #104 ryannon

I'd say it's the equivalent to calling us "Yanks".

In general, no harm meant by either expression.

Only if we're not Yanks, we're sepps. /
Cockney rhyming slang for yank. Septic tank=yank.

114 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:20:28pm

re: #91 Cato the Elder

Brits are Brits and they're proud of its.

Thank you!

115 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:20:30pm

re: #105 marjoriemoon

You guys are bad. I love the British! What's not to love? Funny accents, silly walks. Actually it's probably the humor I like most, they are a funny bunch and the castles are pretty cool.

Ok, fine. The reality is that you can use the words "British", "Scottish", "Irish", and "English" pretty much interchangeably. Doesn't really matter which you use.

116 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:20:32pm

re: #54 Olsonist

Wasilla is 45 minutes from Anchorage.

sure, but the view of Russia in the background is simply breathtaking...

117 simoom  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:20:39pm

That Castro cap photo always cracks me up.

118 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:20:51pm

re: #107 iceweasel

That one ends with a link to infowars, of course.

I am shocked it took them this long to figure out that he may not believe his own bullshit.

119 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:21:03pm

re: #90 PT Barnum

Go for the gold and call em Limeys

I think not, but thanks for playing lol

120 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:21:17pm

re: #99 ryannon

Pavlovian reaction to "House of Lords"

Pavlovian reaction to Beatles. That song was the first time I ever heard the phrase "House of Lords". Had to scurry to encyclopedia (World Book, my parents couldn't afford Britannica).

Thus began my education in English history.

121 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:21:26pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

I also managed to talk the gas company into not shutting of the gas until Thursday. Good thing too, it's cold here and snowed a little this afternoon.

Didn't know you were behind to the gas co. also. Thought it was just the health ins
Dude ,,,, not being preachy or telling you your business, but if you're that far behind in essentials (gas,, insurance(s),, etc) perhaps it's time to cut out NON-essentials for awhile
cable ,, internet ,, cell phone ,,, etc
Sorry ,,, but just sayin!

122 soap_man  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:21:42pm

SP going to Canada foe whatever she needed doesn't bother me. It's the "IF WE PASS THIS BILL WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!11!!!1!" shit.

It's simple really. The Canadian system has its advantages and its disadvantages. The American system has its advantages and its disadvantages. Personally, I prefer the American system with some sensible modifications. I don't think i would want a single-payer syste,.

I'm probably wasting my time expecting pundits and politicians to have a reasonable conversation about this though.

123 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:21:45pm

re: #106 harry91

[snip]

5. Palin is not an Alaskan, there I said it, Alaskans don't even call themselves American. I've gone on many a bender with Alaskans and they feel a stronger kinship with Canada than they do the US. Only the crazy methheads in Wasilla think different I guess.

[snip]

No wonder Alaska reminds me so much of Texas.

124 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:21:45pm

re: #63 PT Barnum

If it had truly been rednecky, it would have been her dad in the backseat who was her ex husband.

"I'm my own grandpa"

125 ryannon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:22:12pm

re: #115 cliffster

Ok, fine. The reality is that you can use the words "British", "Scottish", "Irish", and "English" pretty much interchangeably. Doesn't really matter which you use.

Especially in the Republic of Ireland. They love being called English!

126 Gus  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:22:30pm

re: #112 Charles

The idiot is confusing Dominique de Villepin with Jean-Marie Le Pen.

Beck's crack research team was hard at work again. You think they'd get Andy Levy on that case instead of using Bill Schulz.

127 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:22:37pm

re: #104 ryannon

I'd say it's the equivalent to calling us "Yanks".

In general, no harm meant by either expression.

Gotcha :)

128 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:22:45pm

re: #109 Walter L. Newton

Best thing you could have done, talking to them. I hope it continues to work out.

Thats what I suggested the other night. Be pro-active with a creditor instead of having them come after you

129 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:23:00pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

Thanks, I think I'll be ok. I paid off my mortgage last month and totally cleaned myself out. No more mortgage payments or wasted money on interest. I'll probably always be poor but it should be much easier for me in the near future.

That's great! I'm another 10 years away, but I'll have everything but that and a student loan I'm paying on paid off by October, provided my boss doesn't lose control of the company I do IT for.

Owner (his dad) died without leaving clear instructions about which of two brothers was to take over the helm.

So now I'm just waiting to see what shakes out...been paying down debt since last June and can see the light at the end of the tunnel finally.

130 ryannon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:23:44pm

re: #120 Cato the Elder

Pavlovian reaction to Beatles. That song was the first time I ever heard the phrase "House of Lords". Had to scurry to encyclopedia (World Book, my parents couldn't afford Britannica).

Thus began my education in English history.

Thus began your musical education as well - whether you knew it or not. It's quite a tune when you listen to the orchestration.

131 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:23:46pm

re: #115 cliffster

Ok, fine. The reality is that you can use the words "British", "Scottish", "Irish", and "English" pretty much interchangeably. Doesn't really matter which you use.

Uh, whoa cliffie. Don't use "English" interchangebly for Irish, Scot, or Welsh.

132 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:24:19pm

Here's the video - he doesn't call Wilders a fascist. But he says "the right is fascism in Europe," which is pretty close.

The wingnut blogs are totally freaking out over this.

133 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:24:24pm

re: #23 sattv4u2

My hope,,,implosion so those of us NON-wingnuts on the right aren't collateral damage!

INSIDE JOB!! Whoops, wrong thread...

134 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:24:26pm

re: #107 iceweasel

Beck’s sudden conversion to the increasingly debunked man-made global warming belief system is a shocking stab in the back of conservatives who consider Beck to be their anointed leader.

What kind of idiocy is needed to consider a libertarian pundit to be an anointed leader of conservatives?

TEA PARTY!
BONSAI!

135 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:25:06pm

re: #131 iceweasel

Uh, whoa cliffie. Don't use "English" interchangebly for Irish, Scot, or Welsh.

Oh dear, so correct. You really are asking for it if you do that. :)

136 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:25:24pm

re: #131 iceweasel

Uh, whoa cliffie. Don't use "English" interchangebly for Irish, Scot, or Welsh.

tee hee... oopsie ;)

137 researchok  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:25:39pm

re: #48 marjoriemoon

Btw, completely unrelated... it is insulting to the British to call them Brits?

Better than calling then teabags.

138 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:26:11pm

So, she's guilty because of something her parents did?

139 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:26:32pm

You're back!
:)

140 Gus  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:26:35pm

re: #132 Charles

Here's the video - he doesn't call Wilders a fascist. But he says "the right is fascism in Europe," which is pretty close.


[Video]The wingnut blogs are totally freaking out over this.

Woo hoo! "The right is fascism" as per Glenn Beck. Heads will explode.

Wait 'till Jonah Goldberg hears about this.

141 soap_man  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:26:56pm

re: #134 Slumbering Behemoth

TEA PARTY!
BONSAI!

Speaking of Tea Parties:

When is a tea party not a tea party? Political movement is complicating marketing of actual beverage

My favorite line, from a tea distributor:

"I worry that they're drinking bad tea," Robertson said.

142 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:27:13pm

re: #126 Gus 802

Beck's crack research team (on crack) was hard at work again.

FTFY

143 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:27:28pm

re: #120 Cato the Elder

Pavlovian reaction to Beatles. That song was the first time I ever heard the phrase "House of Lords". Had to scurry to encyclopedia (World Book, my parents couldn't afford Britannica).

Thus began my education in English history.

i heard the news today, oh boy...

144 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:27:32pm

BBL ,,, grill is smokin ,,,, 1st time cooking out in 2010!

145 Nervous Norvous  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:27:51pm

re: #134 Slumbering Behemoth

What kind of idiocy is needed to consider a libertarian pundit to be an anointed leader of conservatives?

TEA PARTY!
BONSAI!

I've been reading up on the coffee party which seems to be focused on trying to restore civility to public discourse. Don't think they'll get very far, but it's good to see somebody's trying

146 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:27:53pm

If the general attitude of Canadians toward their mighty neighbor to the south could be distilled into a single phrase, that phrase would probably be "Oh, shut up." The Americans talked too much, mainly about themselves. Their torrid love affair with their own history and legend exceeded--painfully--the quasi-British Canadian idea of modesty and self-restraint. ... They were forever busting their buttons in spasms of insufferable yahoo pride or all too
publicly agonizing over their crises.
--Bruce McCall, Thin Ice: Coming of Age in Canada, 1997

147 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:28:08pm

re: #134 Slumbering Behemoth

What kind of idiocy is needed to consider a libertarian pundit to be an anointed leader of conservatives?

TEA PARTY!
BONSAI!

This guy is just some random freak commenting on the shrieking harpy's blog, but he does flat-out say that anyone who isn't an AGW denier is de facto not allowed to be conservative.

That's a pretty damn interesting statement. And not confined to the cretins who comment over there.

148 darthstar  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:29:00pm

re: #69 Cato the Elder

Or, if you're a real Brit, twats. [doesn't mean what it means here]

I lived in England for a couple of years, and there was this morning talk show called "The Big Breakfast" (think Good Morning America meets the Daily Show...very funny program)...well, they had the American band Blink 182 on one morning as they were playing in London, and as the hostess of the show bent over to pick something off the floor (and yes, she was of course a hottie), one of the band members said, "Nice fanny." She stood up, red in the face, as her male counterpart explained that, in the US, 'fanny' means butt, but in the UK, it meant the other part of the woman's anatomy further forward...then the guys in the band turned red... It was hilarious.

149 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:30:04pm

re: #148 darthstar

Heh, Brits...
/

150 darthstar  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:30:42pm

re: #138 SeafoodGumbo

So, she's guilty because of something her parents did?

Nope...she's guilty of praising Canada's health care when in Canada, but railing against the same type of health care in the US.

151 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:31:23pm

re: #147 iceweasel

This guy is just some random freak commenting on the shrieking harpy's blog, but he does flat-out say that anyone who isn't an AGW denier is de facto not allowed to be conservative.

That's a pretty damn interesting statement. And not confined to the cretins who comment over there.

And anyone who used to be considered conservative and then accepts AGW is a backstabber, as the bolded part of your earlier comment showed, and as hundreds of comments here have shown.

152 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:31:25pm

re: #150 darthstar

Nope...she's guilty of praising Canada's health care when in Canada, but railing against the same type of health care in the US.

I thought that the health care proposals by the administration are not the same as Canadian health care?

153 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:31:39pm

re: #144 sattv4u2

BBL ,,, grill is smokin ,,, 1st time cooking out in 2010!

I have to ask, whatchya grillin'?

154 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:32:39pm

re: #130 ryannon

Thus began your musical education as well - whether you knew it or not. It's quite a tune when you listen to the orchestration.

I suggested that what we should do was write all but fifteen bars properly so that the orchestra could read it, but where the fifteen bars began we would give the musicians a simple direction: "Start on your lowest note and eventually, at the end of the fifteen bars, be at your highest note." How they got there was up to them, but it all resulted in a crazy crescendo. It was interesting because the trumpet players, always famous for their fondness for lubricating substances, didn't care, so they'd be there at the note ahead of everyone. The strings all watched each other like little sheep: "Are you going up?" Yes. "So am I." And they'd go up. "A little more?" Yes. And they'd go up a little more, all very delicate and cozy, all going up together. You listen to those trumpets. They're just freaking out.
-- Paul McCartney

155 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:33:06pm

re: #150 darthstar

Nope...she's guilty of praising Canada's health care when in Canada, but railing against the same type of health care in the US.

Where did she praise it?

156 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:33:54pm

re: #152 Walter L. Newton

I thought that the health care proposals by the administration are not the same as Canadian health care?

They're not the same; the health care she crossed the border for was better than our current proposals.

157 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:34:41pm

re: #129 PT Barnum

That's great! I'm another 10 years away, but I'll have everything but that and a student loan I'm paying on paid off by October, provided my boss doesn't lose control of the company I do IT for.

Owner (his dad) died without leaving clear instructions about which of two brothers was to take over the helm.

So now I'm just waiting to see what shakes out...been paying down debt since last June and can see the light at the end of the tunnel finally.

Gazelle-like intensity!

158 harry91  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:34:47pm

re: #152 Walter L. Newton

I thought that the health care proposals by the administration are not the same as Canadian health care?

The US could be so lucky. Not that it doesn't have problems but most provinces are now including a private option, and insurance companies still get their share and are doing quite well.

Also their banks are solvent because they are boring and stuffy and care about regulation.

159 Gus  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:35:17pm

More Glenn Beck craziness...

Glenn Beck Urges Listeners to Leave Churches That Preach Social Justice

On his daily radio and television shows last week, Fox News personality Glenn Beck set out to convince his audience that "social justice," the term many Christian churches use to describe their efforts to address poverty and human rights, is a "code word" for communism and Nazism. Beck urged Christians to discuss the term with their priests and to leave their churches if leaders would not reconsider their emphasis on social justice.

"I'm begging you, your right to religion and freedom to exercise religion and read all of the passages of the Bible as you want to read them and as your church wants to preach them . . . are going to come under the ropes in the next year. If it lasts that long it will be the next year. I beg you, look for the words 'social justice' or 'economic justice' on your church Web site. If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. Now, am I advising people to leave their church? Yes!"

"Social justis is teh Communism."

160 theheat  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:35:20pm

I've lost count Palin's fabrications, exaggerations, fibs, truth-stretching, and outright lies. All I can do is add this to the pile if it ends up being true. As if, I needed more to dislike about her. I couldn't stand her in 2008; I loathe her in 2010. If only she could shut up and keep her face off the tele, I'd forget about her completely. Sadly, she continues to embarrass herself into relevance.

161 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:35:35pm

re: #152 Walter L. Newton

I thought that the health care proposals by the administration are not the same as Canadian health care?

They aren't , but we talking Palin socialist evil death panel Obamacare medicine. Canada = socialist medicine ergo the same sort of thing. In Palin world it doesn't matter what the proposals actually are. Too many facts to deal with. Yeesh. ;)

162 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:36:23pm

re: #151 wrenchwench

And anyone who used to be considered conservative and then accepts AGW is a backstabber, as the bolded part of your earlier comment showed, and as hundreds of comments here have shown.

Exactly. I notice that in addition to the popularity of the "rammed down our throats" image, there's a lot of love for the "stabbed in the back" claim (huh, that's familiar) as well on the right.

163 pharmmajor  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:36:51pm

Me again. I wanted to apologize for the Cluster F-Bomb in my previous post, but I am in a very bad mood and am so sick of the people that I mentioned, I had to let it out.

164 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:36:58pm

Per Politico:

Socialized medicine apparently only kicked in in Yukon in 1972, post-Palin.


Not that it really matters because we're not responsible for what our parents do...

165 pharmmajor  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:37:46pm

re: #134 Slumbering Behemoth

What kind of idiocy is needed to consider a libertarian pundit to be an anointed leader of conservatives?

!

If Glenn Beck is a libertarian, I'm Miss Marple.

166 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:38:07pm

re: #151 wrenchwench

And anyone who used to be considered conservative and then accepts AGW is a backstabber, as the bolded part of your earlier comment showed, and as hundreds of comments here have shown.

I humbly accept their characterization of my intellect as "sharp"/

167 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:40:16pm

re: #48 marjoriemoon

Btw, completely unrelated... it is insulting to the British to call them Brits?

I'm polite, so I hope not. I'm Irish, so I still sleep nights.

168 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:40:40pm

re: #159 Gus 802

More Glenn Beck craziness...

Glenn Beck Urges Listeners to Leave Churches That Preach Social Justice

"Social justis is teh Communism."

It's not just Beck that says that about 'social justice' either. That's another wingnut meme I've seen around.

169 simoom  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:40:40pm

re: #132 Charles

Here's the video - he doesn't call Wilders a fascist. But he says "the right is fascism in Europe," which is pretty close.

[Video]

The wingnut blogs are totally freaking out over this.

Wow! As I recall, Beck was relatively supportive of Wilders when he had him on his show last year. That new video almost sounds rational :P.

170 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:40:41pm

re: #164 SeafoodGumbo

Per Politico:


Not that it really matters because we're not responsible for what our parents do...

Ah, as if that were the point. It is interesting to see the focus on "guilt", though.

Did Ms. Palin benefit from that treatment? Did they attempt to kill her or any member of her family, by trial-by-panel? Was the treatment used more than once, implying it had some benefit?
Yes-no-yes? Then, it appears that government-TAKEOVER-regulated health care doesn't do all the things Sarah Palin has recently said it would. Odd, that.

171 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:40:54pm

re: #166 Aceofwhat?

I humbly accept their characterization of my intellect as "sharp"/

Sharp as an atomic edged blade, or a sack of wet mice?
/:P

172 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:42:26pm

re: #129 PT Barnum

Hang in there, and good luck with that.

173 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:42:54pm

re: #165 pharmmajor

If Glenn Beck is a libertarian, I'm Miss Marple.

He says he is.

174 harry91  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:43:00pm

re: #164 SeafoodGumbo

Per Politico:

Not that it really matters because we're not responsible for what our parents do...


No again this is what matters:

1966

Canada Assistance Plan (CAP), federal, introduced; provides cost-sharing for social services, including health care not covered under hospital plans, for those in need, Royal Assent July, effective April 1.

Medical Care Act, federal, proclaimed (Royal Assent), December 19; provides 50/50 cost sharing for provincial/territorial medical insurance plans, in force July 1, 1968.

The Yukon goverment is basically a figurehead, when the feds introduced healthcare they would have been first in line. The fact the the Yukon government acknoledged it is no biggie.

The federal government controls the territories.

175 darthstar  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:43:06pm

re: #164 SeafoodGumbo

Per Politico:


Not that it really matters because we're not responsible for what our parents do...

Tell that to the people still ranting about Barack Obama's dad.

176 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:43:55pm

re: #171 Varek Raith

Sharp as an atomic edged blade, or a sack of wet mice?
/:P

well played.

(and you're right...i'm probably overestimating the edge required to puncture a back with no spine...)

178 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:45:02pm
179 Gus  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:45:03pm

re: #168 iceweasel

It's not just Beck that says that about 'social justice' either. That's another wingnut meme I've seen around.

Yeah, I know. That's part of Conservapedia's agenda which is to masculinize the Bible and also remove any references to social justice. And from the Wingnut Encyclopedia we find:

Conservative Bible Project
Third Example - Socialism

Socialistic terminology permeates English translations of the Bible, without justification. This improperly encourages the "social justice" movement among Christians.

For example, the conservative word "volunteer" is mentioned only once in the ESV, yet the socialistic word "comrade" is used three times, "laborer(s)" is used 13 times, "labored" 15 times, and "fellow" (as in "fellow worker") is used 55 times.

Looks like they're doing word counts like the rest of the lunatics.

180 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:45:28pm
181 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:45:45pm

re: #170 torrentprime

Do you really think that she's responsible for the choices her parents made?

182 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:46:31pm

re: #177 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Watermelons, eh?

Do a Google image search for "Obama" and "watermelons" and then weep for our Republic.

What a dumb thing to say. I swear, some white people have the hardest time talking about black people without screwing the fuck up.

183 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:47:00pm

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

Does anyone consider this racist?

Let Fox news say it. Then the MSM will.

184 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:47:04pm

re: #179 Gus 802

Looks like they're doing word counts like the rest of the lunatics.

Counting is also teh socialist! Capitalism sez the first prime number is 1, people!/
I have a real nice bit from conservapedia for you later, heh. Saving it for an open thread or when we get far enough off topic on a long one. :)

185 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:47:11pm

re: #181 SeafoodGumbo

I think she makes a choice to demonize government-funded healthcare when she's been the beneficiary of it.

186 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:47:22pm

re: #83 Charles

The wackos are really flooding Richard Metzger's site now:

[Link: www.dangerousminds.net...]

Well, hey! How could anyone trust what you say about evolution, if you've never accounted for yourself vis-a-vis "the Kalam cosmological argument"?
/

187 abbyadams  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:47:54pm

Other good Palin story of the day, if ya missed it. It's okay to write on your hand, just no daemon teleprompter:

A fan, she said, had sent her a biblical passage. Isaiah 49:16 reads: "See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me."

"Hey, if it was good enough for God, scribbling on the palm of his hand, it's good enough for me, for us. He says, in that passage he says, I wrote your name on the palm of my hand to remember you. And I'm like OK, I'm in good company," Palin said to laughter.

188 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:48:09pm

re: #165 pharmmajor

If Glenn Beck is a libertarian, I'm Miss Marple.

That seems to be a poorly defined term.

And I don't mean Miss Marple.

189 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:48:10pm

So just to comment on the topic of this thread, at what point was saint Sarah Moose Slayer not a hypocritical, opportunistic, utterly craven and shallow, dishonest hypocrite?

190 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:48:10pm

re: #41 Charles

Uh oh. Glenn Beck actually called Geert Wilders a "far right fascist" on his show today.

The shrieking harpy is stroking out.

This is not the only recent case where Glen Beck has said something sane and irritated the far right recently. I wonder why he is doing that. It can't for money, since its driving wingnuts away from him.

191 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:48:37pm

re: #181 SeafoodGumbo

Do you really think that she's responsible for the choices her parents made?

Missed the point again.

She is responsible for learning a lesson from her own experiences, yes. Her husband's health care springs to mind, too.

Does that help frame it in a "we don't hate Sarah; we laugh at her" way?

192 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:48:47pm

re: #163 pharmmajor

Me again. I wanted to apologize for the Cluster F-Bomb in my previous post, but I am in a very bad mood and am so sick of the people that I mentioned, I had to let it out.

In certain trying circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity furnishes a relief denied even to prayer.
-- Mark Twain

193 waste93  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:48:58pm

As it appears has been mentioned. The Canadian provinces adopted the national system at different times. Yukon did it in 1972 so there is at least a five year window there.

Another consideration is we are talking about Alaska in the 60's. Depending on the type of injury her brother had, the Canadian hospital may have been the closest with the level of care he needed.

And if you still want to point it out that Palin, as a child, her brother was taken by her parents to a Canadian hospital. Do I have to also remind you of the elected official from Canada that just finished have major surgery in the US even though it was offered in Canada? Or the Canadian health care system sending some high risk and multiple birth south of their border for care? Hypocracy cuts both ways.

194 darthstar  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:49:03pm

re: #177 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh Dan Dan Dan, you are a treasure, aren't you?

Dan Rather: "[Obama's] a nice person, he's very articulate" this is what's been used against him, "but he couldn't sell watermelons if it, you gave him the state troopers to flag down the traffic."

Dear anyone living in post 1964 America,

The use of 'watermelon', 'monkey', and 'fried chicken' (amongst others) in reference to people of African American heritage is not advised. Please make a note of it...or shut the fuck up.

Thank you.

195 Bob Dillon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:49:12pm

re: #3 researchok

There is this to consider: Maybe the closest quality care Palin needed was in Canada.

Wasilla is a long way off from UCLA Med.

The last time I was in Delta Junction checking out health care facilities (around '95 IIRC) there was a small (2 rooms) emergency clinic with 2 pints of blood on hand. I asked what they did for urgent care patients. Put them in a private plane (2 seater prop and very expensive if they could find one and a pilot) and flew them to Anchorage - which has 2 hospitals, or load them into some ones car and start driving to Anchorage. A run to Whitehorse for medical attention could be a wise decision depending on the weather.

If you live outside of Anchorage or Fairbanks (1 hospital) you are living on the edge. And as we said in Alaska - If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room.

196 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:49:15pm

re: #189 ludwigvanquixote

So just to comment on the topic of this thread, at what point was saint Sarah Moose Slayer not a hypocritical, opportunistic, utterly craven and shallow, dishonest hypocrite?

Well, this proves it - she was already a hypocritical, opportunistic, utterly craven and shallow, dishonest hypocrite when she was, what.. two? That's pretty bad.

197 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:49:19pm

re: #190 Dark_Falcon

He might have been told he has to dial it back a little bit or get fired. He took it pretty damn far.

198 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:49:35pm

re: #189 ludwigvanquixote

So just to comment on the topic of this thread, at what point was saint Sarah Moose Slayer not a hypocritical, opportunistic, utterly craven and shallow, dishonest hypocrite?

During the pauses between words in her speech.

199 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:49:36pm

re: #112 Charles

The idiot is confusing Dominique de Villepin with Jean-Marie Le Pen.

At what point do we expect Beck to have any understanding that would require an actual education or ability to fact check?

200 freetoken  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:50:05pm

re: #190 Dark_Falcon

Controversy brings fame, or at least attention.

Ultimately I think Beck is more of a religious Mormon doing his best to bring a Skousenian belief system to the world, and he simply uses the issues of the day to convince people that he, Beck, ought to be heeded.

201 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:50:14pm
202 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:50:19pm

re: #199 LudwigVanQuixote

At what point do we expect Beck to have any understanding that would require an actual education or ability to fact check?

15 minutes after the end of time.

203 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:50:34pm

re: #196 cliffster

The hypocrisy comes from her repeated, and utterly idiotic, assaults on government-funded healthcare.

204 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:50:49pm

re: #185 Obdicut

I think she makes a choice to demonize government-funded healthcare when she's been the beneficiary of it.

Her parents made the health care choices for the family. Not their children.

205 Gus  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:51:13pm

re: #201 Waste93

Yeah, we heard all about Newfoundland Premier and billionaire Danny Williams going to Florida to get heart surgery.

206 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:51:16pm

re: #204 SeafoodGumbo

Oy!

208 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:51:40pm

re: #204 SeafoodGumbo

Her parents made the health care choices for the family. Not their children.

And therefore she is contractually bound not to learn from it? Ditto with her husband's health care?

209 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:51:42pm

Charles if your reading it looks like I was incorrect on the dates when single payer actually came to the Yukon so my original comment which was posted in the OP is incorrect.

210 pharmmajor  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:52:19pm

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

Does anyone consider this racist?

Not racist, per se. Just retarded (which is understandable for Danny Boy.)

211 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:52:43pm

re: #204 SeafoodGumbo

Her parents made the health care choices for the family. Not their children.

Are you intentionally not getting the point? It has nothing to do with it being her parent's choice or not.

212 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:54:16pm

re: #210 pharmmajor

Not racist, per se. Just retarded (which is understandable for Danny Boy.)

Right... I see.

213 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:54:22pm

re: #147 iceweasel

This guy is just some random freak commenting on the shrieking harpy's blog, but he does flat-out say that anyone who isn't an AGW denier is de facto not allowed to be conservative.

That's a pretty damn interesting statement. And not confined to the cretins who comment over there.

So now some wingnuts have gone to reading AGW-accepters like me out of conservatism:

HALP! HALP!! I'VE TURNED INTO A RINO!!!1

/

214 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:54:27pm

re: #205 Gus 802

Yeah, we heard all about Newfoundland Premier and billionaire Danny Williams going to Florida to get heart surgery.

Didn't you know though, in Canada we're all billionaires just like Dan Dan.

215 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:54:43pm

re: #203 Obdicut

The hypocrisy comes from her repeated, and utterly idiotic, assaults on government-funded healthcare.

It's pretty clear this is a silly thing to go after her for. I hear cries of nontroversy about the right all the time, which I agree with. I think it's best to stay away from this sort of thing. That's just me, though - I don't like to be petty.

216 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:55:22pm

re: #201 Waste93

And if you still want to point it out that Palin, as a child, her brother was taken by her parents to a Canadian hospital. Do I have to also remind you of the elected official from Canada that just finished have major surgery in the US even though it was offered in Canada? Or the Canadian health care system sending some high risk and multiple birth south of their border for care? Hypocracy cuts both ways.

Yes, the story of those who can afford to hop around multiple countries to find the perfect locale for one service offers us much on how to solve the healthcare crisis in America. Step one: include private jet reservation phone numbers in ambulances to assist with post-emergency care.

217 zora  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:55:56pm

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

i had to read it like three times. why dan, why. i think it's just plain old stupid, but i might be giving him too much credit.

218 harry91  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:56:07pm

re: #209 Jadespring


I would say stand by your orginal comment. The fact that the Yukon Goverment ratified it in 72 does not mean it wasn't already in force.

Tell ya what, I call my ex-wife who was born in 66 and ask her to ask her mother (bless her cold craven heart) how much she paid.

219 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:56:48pm

re: #189 ludwigvanquixote

So just to comment on the topic of this thread, at what point was saint Sarah Moose Slayer not a hypocritical, opportunistic, utterly craven and shallow, dishonest hypocrite?

hey, now. don't demean moose hunters like that/

220 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:56:50pm

re: #211 Obdicut

Are you intentionally not getting the point? It has nothing to do with it being her parent's choice or not.

Or course it has to do with it being her parents' choice. How can you hold it against her because her parents took their kids to Canada for some medical care?

221 Gus  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:56:57pm

re: #214 Jadespring

Didn't you know though, in Canada we're all billionaires just like Dan Dan.

Right. It's almost like if Italy boasted about Ferrari by saying "we build the best sports car in the world... that's why billionaires come to Italy to buy them."

222 Lidane  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:57:38pm

re: #159 Gus 802

More Glenn Beck craziness...

Glenn Beck Urges Listeners to Leave Churches That Preach Social Justice

That includes damn near every mainstream Christian denomination.

Also, I love how programs that are designed to help the poor and needy are code for communism and all the things Beck doesn't understand like. I mean, it's not like Jesus advocated doing anything for the poor and needy or anything. =P

223 Stanghazi  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:58:18pm

re: #211 Obdicut

Are you intentionally not getting the point? It has nothing to do with it being her parent's choice or not.

You know what ridiculous about this stupid ass story of Palin's? She's contradicted her earlier story about her brother's incident. From the Anchorage Daily News:


"My first five years of life we spent in Skagway, Alaska, right there by Whitehorse. Believe it or not - this was in the ‘60s - we used to hustle on over the border for health care that we would receive in Whitehorse. I remember my brother, he burned his ankle in some little kid accident thing and my parents had to put him on a train and rush him over to Whitehorse and I think, isn't that kind of ironic now. Zooming over the border, getting health care from Canada."

She appears to have updated her memory of the time, because she earlier had told The Skagway News the Heaths had taken the ferry to Juneau for the emergency care.

[Link: www.adn.com...]

So here we are dissecting something that could be another one of her famous fibs.

224 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:58:24pm

re: #215 cliffster

It's pretty clear this is a silly thing to go after her for. I hear cries of nontroversy about the right all the time, which I agree with. I think it's best to stay away from this sort of thing. That's just me, though - I don't like to be petty.

Yes, but you might feel different if you were a Canadian who has to endure idiot pols from the states using it as friggin talking point when it's quite clear to those who actually know whats up that they're talking a bunch-o-crap.

225 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:58:44pm

re: #215 cliffster

It's pretty clear this is a silly thing to go after her for. I hear cries of nontroversy about the right all the time, which I agree with. I think it's best to stay away from this sort of thing. That's just me, though - I don't like to be petty.

The problem with criticism of Sarah is that it is ALL declared to be petty. All we are asking for (over and over and over again) is for logical consistency. No one cares about "she made different choices 4 decades ago." What we are asking is,
Why did another nation's health care system offer more than the American version? Is this situation still true today? Why does government run or subsidized health care that you and your family have reaped benefits from, for years, represent a threat to our nation's seniors and disabled when applied to more people?
I don't think its petty to ask for those answers.

226 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:59:10pm

I didn't know the guy, but I'll bet MLK's dreams included being able to say "watermelon" and a person who is black, without instantaneous frenzy. That seems to fall right in there with being judged not by the color of your skin, but by the content of your character.

227 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:59:21pm

re: #220 SeafoodGumbo

Or course it has to do with it being her parents' choice. How can you hold it against her because her parents took their kids to Canada for some medical care?

We wouldn't hold it against her had she not attacked Obamacare with such insane vehemence.

228 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:59:50pm

re: #217 zora

i had to read it like three times. why dan, why. i think it's just plain old stupid, but i might be giving him too much credit.

No... it's racist... it didn't take me three times to recognize a comment that only worked because of racial stereotypes. Did he do it on purpose, probably not, but the imagery unfortunately can only conjure up a typical stereotypical picture.

Of course it was stupid, and stunk of racial overtones.

229 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 4:59:54pm

re: #148 darthstar

Gives a different perspective on "Fanny Mae", don't it?

230 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:00:41pm

re: #215 cliffster

I would happily stay away from pointing out Palin's hypocrisy if I stopped hearing people repeat her talking points. I'm really not actually irritated at her for saying this, but for the lies and distortions she's made on health care.

Here, though, is something far more substantial:

Clearing up some of the distortions about the Canadian Healthcare system.

231 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:01:00pm

re: #218 harry91

I would say stand by your orginal comment. The fact that the Yukon Goverment ratified it in 72 does not mean it wasn't already in force.

Tell ya what, I call my ex-wife who was born in 66 and ask her to ask her mother (bless her cold craven heart) how much she paid.

Alright. I just don't want to give the outside LGF world any fodder for going after Charles for posting something that may be incorrect.

232 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:01:37pm

re: #230 Obdicut

I would happily stay away from pointing out Palin's hypocrisy if I stopped hearing people repeat her talking points. I'm really not actually irritated at her for saying this, but for the lies and distortions she's made on health care.

Here, though, is something far more substantial:

Clearing up some of the distortions about the Canadian Healthcare system.

Thank you, that's much better.

233 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:01:37pm

re: #207 simoom

It's the Right that's supposed to be so freaked out over Obama's race, but it's Dem politicians and MSM reporters who keep making these malapropisms.

234 abbyadams  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:01:57pm

re: #228 Walter L. Newton

I have to agree with you on this:

Did he do it on purpose, probably not, but the imagery unfortunately can only conjure up a typical stereotypical picture.
235 harry91  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:02:11pm

I hope this helps and yes Charles was right in his post, in fact it was a few years earlier:

The Yukon Health Insurance Service (Y.H.I.S.) came into existence on July 1, 1961 to provide hospital insurance for all residents of the Yukon Territory. Its three objectives were: to relieve territorial residents of the burden of hospital costs; to assure hospitals of payment for services rendered; and to raise standards of hospital care.

Y.H.I.S. provided hospital insurance for Yukon residents without cost, as long as they had lived in Yukon for ninety days. The Yukon Government administered the plan. The federal Department of National Health and Welfare took responsibility for the standards of nursing, equipment, and medical aspects for the Yukon's three hospitals (Whitehorse, St. Mary's in Dawson, and Mayo)

Stolen from here:

[Link: nomoremister.blogspot.com...]

During the fiscal year 1961-1962, the Y.H.I.S. passed from its developmental stage to full operation as one of the twelve plans (provincial and territorial) which together formed the framework for a national plan of health services....

[Link: www.tc.gov.yk.ca...]

236 Bob Dillon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:02:14pm

For what it's worth folks - Western Canadians and Eastern Alaskans share pretty much everything - the border to them is just a line on a map. They both live in remote and sometimes harsh conditions. That gives them a special bond few who live outside the area would understand.

237 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:02:28pm

re: #224 Jadespring

Yes, but you might feel different if you were a Canadian who has to endure idiot pols from the states using it as friggin talking point when it's quite clear to those who actually know whats up that they're talking a bunch-o-crap.

Here, I'll buy one of these shirts. Just tell me where to send it ;)

238 Lidane  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:03:02pm

re: #233 The Sanity Inspector

Idiocy transcends political ideology. So does racism.

239 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:03:33pm

re: #19 jaunte

It will be fair and balanced: an explosive whimper.

Sort of like an implosion, leaving the wingnuts dazed and confused.

240 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:04:08pm

re: #237 cliffster

I wonder if there are any "USA - Canada's ass" shirts out there? Business opportunity!

241 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:04:12pm

re: #226 cliffster

I didn't know the guy, but I'll bet MLK's dreams included being able to say "watermelon" and a person who is black, without instantaneous frenzy. That seems to fall right in there with being judged not by the color of your skin, but by the content of your character.

that may have been his dream, but we're not there yet...and i declare myself unfit to be the person who decides when we are.

242 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:04:23pm

re: #232 cliffster

One thing to pay attention to in there is the myth of Canda losing doctors every year.

It's a very good read in general, though.

243 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:04:37pm

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

We wouldn't hold it against her had she not attacked Obamacare with such insane vehemence.

So you admit that you are blaming her for what her parents did. That's unfair.

244 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:05:20pm

re: #243 SeafoodGumbo

So you admit that you are blaming her for what her parents did. That's unfair.

What's unfair is you completely missing the point.

;)

245 Gus  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:05:58pm

re: #222 Lidane

That includes damn near every mainstream Christian denomination.

Also, I love how programs that are designed to help the poor and needy are code for communism and all the things Beck doesn't understand like. I mean, it's not like Jesus advocated doing anything for the poor and needy or anything. =P

"Social Justice" search at the Holy See results in 626 hits. It's a common topic in the Catholic Church. For example:

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR JUSTICE AND PEACE

ORIGIN

The Second Vatican Council had proposed the creation of a body of the universal Church whose role would be "to stimulate the Catholic Community to foster progress in needy regions and social justice on the international scene" (Gaudium et Spes, No. 90). It was in reply to this request that Pope Paul VI established the Pontifical Commission "Justitia et Pax" by a Motu Proprio dated 6 January 1967 (Catholicam Christi Ecclesiam).

...

ACTIVITIES

The primary work of the Pontifical Council is to engage in action-oriented studies based on both the papal and episcopal social teaching of the Church. Through them, the Pontifical Council also contributes to the development of this teaching in the following vast fields:
JUSTICE. The Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace is concerned with all that touches upon social justice, the world of work, international life, development in general and social development in particular. It also promotes ethical reflection on the evolution of economic and financial systems and addresses problems related to the environment and the responsible use of the earth's resources.

PEACE. The Pontifical Council reflects on a broad range of questions related to war, disarmament and the arms trade, international security, and violence in its various and ever changing forms (terrorism, exaggerated nationalism etc.)...

I wonder if Glenn Beck realizes what he said. Of course, his ilk probably sees the Holy See as being another European-socialist conspiracy.

246 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:06:28pm

re: #241 Aceofwhat?

that may have been his dream, but we're not there yet...and i declare myself unfit to be the person who decides when we are.

That may be true. But I'll eat the shit out of some watermelon. And burritos too.

247 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:06:42pm

re: #233 The Sanity Inspector

It's the Right that's supposed to be so freaked out over Obama's race, but it's Dem politicians and MSM reporters Republican legislators and local party chairs who keep making these malapropisms through racist emails and jokes and campaign speeches.

FTFY.

Were you really ignorant of the host of GOP racism on parade over the last year? The watermelon emails, the witch doctor photo, the quest for a "great white hope" and the labels of Obama as "uppity"?

Or were you just pulling our leg with the whole FOX-imitation (ie, reality has nothing to do with history) thing?

248 abbyadams  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:07:19pm

re: #238 Lidane

Well said. I find it unfortunate that some on the right (and some here) think that all on the left think that all on the right are racist. I know plenty of Ds in my area who "wouldn't vote for the 'n-----.'"

I didn't appreciate it when I was accused of not supporting the troops and being unAmerican from 2001-2008 by people on the right, and I won't subject those on the right now to the same tarring with the same big brush.

I go on an individual basis.

249 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:07:55pm

re: #243 SeafoodGumbo

So you admit that you are blaming her for what her parents did. That's unfair.

Nice dodge. When you get around to it; there are several questions for you upthread. I'm curious to hear if you have answers.

250 simoom  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:10:47pm

re: #207 simoom

It's actually kind of interesting to see how this story is playing in the far right blogosphere. For example, at FreeRepublic they seem torn between criticizing Rather as a racist; essentially agreeing with Rather; or removing any ambiguity at all by posting images of: Obama carrying a watermelon, the White House lawn full of watermelons and old racist watermelon ads.

251 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:10:52pm

re: #243 SeafoodGumbo

So you admit that you are blaming her for what her parents did. That's unfair.

No, I blame her for failing to give credit where it was due and launching a crazy attack that had no basis in reality. If she'd kept to the facts and been honest, those here would not be attacking her.

252 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:11:51pm

re: #246 cliffster

That may be true. But I'll eat the shit out of some watermelon.

They're just seeds, dude, just seeds. That, or you're buying your produce from the wrong people.

253 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:11:58pm

re: #247 torrentprime

FTFY.

Were you really ignorant of the host of GOP racism on parade over the last year? The watermelon emails, the witch doctor photo, the quest for a "great white hope" and the labels of Obama as "uppity"?

Or were you just pulling our leg with the whole FOX-imitation (ie, reality has nothing to do with history) thing?

I was thinking of Joe Biden going on about how "articulate" Obama is, and Chris Matthews marveling over how Obama's speech made him forget he was a black man.

254 zora  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:12:09pm

re: #228 Walter L. Newton

three times, because i couldn't believe i was reading it correctly. i got the watermelon thing right away.

255 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:13:07pm

re: #253 The Sanity Inspector

I was thinking of Joe Biden going on about how "articulate" Obama is, and Chris Matthews marveling over how Obama's speech made him forget he was a black man.

So, focusing on the statements that the most sensitive cannot attribute to hatred or racism and ignoring the directly racist, then. Got it.

256 darthstar  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:13:28pm

re: #204 SeafoodGumbo

Her parents made the health care choices for the family. Not their children.

Stop attacking Sarah's parents! /

Sheesh...you've made this point umpteen fuckin' times already...we get it...Sarah used to be a kid whose parents made the decisions. What her statement really says about her is that she talks out her ass...of course its ironic that she went to Canada, given that she considers socialized medicine the work of the devil...(hyperbole...look it up).

257 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:14:12pm

re: #255 torrentprime

So, focusing on the statements that the most sensitive cannot attribute to hatred or racism and ignoring the directly racist, then. Got it.

A valid point, let me digest that.

258 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:14:18pm

The spirit of the International Women's Day thread was short-lived.

259 cliffster  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:14:23pm

re: #253 The Sanity Inspector

I was thinking of Joe Biden going on about how "articulate" Obama is, and Chris Matthews marveling over how Obama's speech made him forget he was a black man.

Chris Rock on "well-spoken"

260 Lidane  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:14:51pm

re: #223 Stanley Sea

[Link: www.adn.com...]

So here we are dissecting something that could be another one of her famous fibs.

The more she talks, the more I'm convinced that she sees public life as just another beauty pageant. She gets by just by smiling pretty, saying what she thinks are the right things, and she doesn't think it matters if her story changes from one place to the next because the audiences are different.

261 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:16:54pm

Sarah:

“And I think now, isn’t that ironic?”

No, Bible Spice. It's just unfortunate for your talking points.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Never gets old.

262 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:17:41pm

re: #249 torrentprime

Nice dodge. When you get around to it; there are several questions for you upthread. I'm curious to hear if you have answers.

you're being too kind. i can still see the red mark left by the ball after it bounced off of their thigh/

263 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:18:44pm

re: #260 Lidane

The more she talks, the more I'm convinced that she sees public life as just another beauty pageant. She gets by just by smiling pretty, saying what she thinks are the right things, and she doesn't think it matters if her story changes from one place to the next because the audiences are different.

Some women do that and if their looks hold out it often works, at least partially.

264 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:20:27pm

re: #259 cliffster

thank you

265 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:23:22pm

re: #54 Olsonist

Wasilla is 45 minutes from Anchorage.

The impression I get is that this is something that happened before they moved to Wasilla, and were up closer to the border.

266 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:24:16pm

re: #75 pharmmajor

Okay, this has been boiling up for too long, so please allow me to vent:

Fuck Sarah Palin, Fuck Barack Obama, Fuck George Bush, Fuck Hillary Clinton, Fuck Tom Delay, Fuck Nancy Pelosi, Fuck Harry Reid, Fuck John McCain, Fuck Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Moore, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, Ann Coulter, Bill Maher; fuck every pundit and politician who exploit hatred, fear and animosity to further their power base and fuck all the empty-headed sheep who call themselves "Democrats" and "Republicans" that mindlessly follow them.

Feeling any better?

267 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:25:28pm

re: #104 ryannon

I'd say it's the equivalent to calling us "Yanks".

In general, no harm meant by either expression.

'Yanks' is one of those things that seems to be meant as an insult oftener than it's perceived as one.

268 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:26:50pm

Son of Hamas founder spied for Israel to stop bombers

re: #191 torrentprime

Missed the point again.

She is responsible for learning a lesson from her own experiences, yes. Her husband's health care springs to mind, too.

Does that help frame it in a "we don't hate Sarah; we laugh at her" way?

What lesson?

269 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:26:52pm

re: #267 SanFranciscoZionist

catching up, are we//

270 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:28:00pm

D'oh. Mixed posts.

Son of Hamas founder spied for Israel to stop bombers

Another hypocrite...

271 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:28:55pm

re: #270 SeafoodGumbo

Now you're just trollin'.

272 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:29:03pm

re: #270 SeafoodGumbo

D'oh. Mixed posts.

Son of Hamas founder spied for Israel to stop bombers

Another hypocrite...

how is he a hypocrite again?

273 Randall Gross  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:30:56pm

re: #3 researchok

There is this to consider: Maybe the closest quality care Palin needed was in Canada.

Wasilla is a long way off from UCLA Med.

It's not far from Anchorage, where they have good hospitals. Getting to Canada by car, even in 1966, took a lot longer than the five hour plane trip to Seattle.

274 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:30:59pm

re: #267 SanFranciscoZionist

'Yanks' is one of those things that seems to be meant as an insult oftener than it's perceived as one.

My insult deafness is kicking in again. I see "Yank" and "Brit" as fundamentally comradely-- at worst, banter. Have people really hated me all these years?

275 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:33:35pm

re: #270 SeafoodGumbo

D'oh. Mixed posts.

Son of Hamas founder spied for Israel to stop bombers

Another hypocrite...

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but that story was covered at LGF last week:

Shocka: Hamas Founder's Son Spied for Israel

276 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:33:41pm

re: #272 Aceofwhat?

how is he a hypocrite again?

Well, Charles' line of thinking is that Palin is a hypocrite because she received help from an entity as a child, but grew up to disparage that entity as a bad system.

The son of Hamas' founder received a no doubt relatively comfortable lifestyle because of his father's position in the terrorist group, but he grew up to disparage that entity (Hamas) as a bad system.

Palin isn't a hypocrite here and neither is Hamas' founder's son.

277 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:34:49pm

re: #276 SeafoodGumbo

When you're comparing the Canadian health care system to Hamas, it's really time to stop.

278 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:35:44pm

re: #276 SeafoodGumbo

Would you stop baiting Charles. This isn't the first time you've done it, and it does nothing but get you in trouble.

279 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:37:33pm

re: #278 Dark_Falcon

Would you stop baiting Charles. This isn't the first time you've done it, and it does nothing but get you in trouble.

How am I "baiting" him? I have a different opinion and am expressing it.

280 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:39:07pm

re: #279 SeafoodGumbo

How am I "baiting" him? I have a different opinion and am expressing it.

It's OK to disagree with Charles (and I do so at times), but your tone and the "another hypocrite" comment had a snarky, hostile tone.

281 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:39:11pm

re: #276 SeafoodGumbo

in addition to being irritating, your basic facts are messed up.

oh, wait - those are likely related.

he was serving time when he flipped, and he flipped so that people he knew could be arrested rather than killed. if that's your definition of 'hypocrite', then you likely share Alanis Morrisette and Sarah Palin's definition of 'irony'...

282 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:39:15pm

re: #276 SeafoodGumbo


The son of Hamas' founder received a no doubt relatively comfortable lifestyle because of his father's position in the terrorist group, but he grew up to disparage that entity (Hamas) as a bad system.

The funny/sad thing is, I can see a modern wingnut (almost said conservative, but I know some of us hope the term will get a little of its old shine back, some day) actually equating "living off of terrorist profits" and "government run health care". They both seek to rob others of freedom, destroy the American way of life, etc. Perfectly logical!

283 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:40:29pm

re: #277 Obdicut

When you're comparing the Canadian health care system to Hamas, it's really time to stop.

I'm not comparing Canada's health care system to Hamas. I'm using the example to show that just because someone receives benefits from a bad system as a child, that doesn't mean the person is a hypocrite to not support - or even deride or attempt to change - that same system when they are older and, presumably, wiser....and making their own choices.

284 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:41:37pm

re: #280 Dark_Falcon

It's OK to disagree with Charles (and I do so at times), but your tone and the "another hypocrite" comment had a snarky, hostile tone.

Fair point.

285 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:43:06pm

re: #283 SeafoodGumbo

I'm not comparing Canada's health care system to Hamas. I'm using the example to show that just because someone receives benefits from a bad system as a child, that doesn't mean the person is a hypocrite to not support - or even deride or attempt to change - that same system when they are older and, presumably, wiser...and making their own choices.

Yay! You're caught up to our questions, now!
And what lessons from her childhood led her to oppose the health care she got as a child? What options existed then that made the Canada run a bad idea? What options exist now that make our system better than theirs? And what lessons did she learn from Todd's government-run healthcare system that cause her to oppose it today (well, the moments when she isn't actually using it for her family, that is)?

286 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:43:11pm

re: #283 SeafoodGumbo

I'm not comparing Canada's health care system to Hamas. I'm using the example to show that just because someone receives benefits from a bad system as a child, that doesn't mean the person is a hypocrite to not support - or even deride or attempt to change - that same system when they are older and, presumably, wiser...and making their own choices.

"being imprisoned" is not "receiving benefits".

you heard it here first.

287 harry91  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:44:28pm

re: #283 SeafoodGumbo

But she disparages a system that over 85% of Canadian's support. She trashes a system that was already in place in the Yukon in the 60's to score political points southside and praises it in Calgary.

288 oldegeezr  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:55:08pm

re: #93 oldegeezr

Hey, this is the internet baby...minutes count...new breaking info and intel...
Zero sum games
Believe me...they're...Zero Sum...!
Hey...
Olde news lets me count bodies...early news lets me save lives...!

289 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:55:20pm

re: #286 Aceofwhat?

"being imprisoned" is not "receiving benefits".

you heard it here first.

According to his wiki:

Mosab Hassan Yousef was born to Hassan Yousef and Salsabin.[1] His father was a sheikh and a Hamas founder and leader.[1] He has five brothers and two sisters.[1] Yousef grew up in Ramallah, a city 10 kilometers north of Jerusalem.[4]

Yousef's doubts about Islam and Hamas began forming when he realized Hamas' brutality.[1] Yousef says that he hated how Hamas used the lives of suffering civilians and children to achieve their goals.[1]

Yousef was held by Shin Bet agents in 1996. It was at this time that he was recruited as an agent, and was released from prison in 1997. Since his release, Yousef was considered the Shin Bet's most reliable source in the Hamas leadership, earning himself the nickname the "Green Prince" - using the color of the Islamist group's flag, and "prince" because of his pedigree as the son of one of the movement's founders. The intelligence he supplied Israel led to the exposure of a number of terrorist cells, and to the prevention of dozens of suicide bombings and assassination attempts on Israeli figures. Some maintain that none of Yousef's actions were done for money,[5] but a March 5, 2010 Wall Street Journal article does say, "He took money from Shin Bet and stayed on their payroll for a decade".

Yousef supplied intelligence that led to the arrests of several key Palestinian leaders, including Ibrahim Hamid, a Hamas commander in the West Bank, and Marwan Barghouti. Also, Yousef claims to have thwarted a 2001 plot to blow up Shimon Peres, then foreign minister and now President of Israel.

Sounds to me like "being imprisoned" WAS "receiving benefits." YMMV, but I consider someone breaking away from a terrorist organization and supplying information that helps avert the murder of many innocent people - which was a result of his imprisonment and turning by Shin Bet - to be a very good thing. Again, ymmv.

290 torrentprime  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:58:22pm

re: #289 SeafoodGumbo

I consider someone breaking away from a terrorist organization and supplying information that helps avert the murder of many innocent people - which was a result of his imprisonment and turning by Shin Bet - to be a very good thing. Again, ymmv.

And since you have said yourself you are in no way not at all absolutely not comparing Hamas to Canada's heath care, what is the takeaway from this heartening story of learning that terrorism is wrong?

291 Stanghazi  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 5:58:58pm

re: #289 SeafoodGumbo

Sounds to me like "being imprisoned" WAS "receiving benefits." YMMV, but I consider someone breaking away from a terrorist organization and supplying information that helps avert the murder of many innocent people - which was a result of his imprisonment and turning by Shin Bet - to be a very good thing. Again, ymmv.

Yep, first thing that comes to mind is Sarah Palin and Canadian health care.

Triple gainer half twist. No splash.

292 teleskiguy  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 6:01:33pm

re: #83 Charles

The wackos are really flooding Richard Metzger's site now:

[Link: www.dangerousminds.net...]

This guys 'steve' doesn't eat his own feedback!

293 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 6:02:44pm

re: #289 SeafoodGumbo

Sounds to me like "being imprisoned" WAS "receiving benefits." YMMV, but I consider someone breaking away from a terrorist organization and supplying information that helps avert the murder of many innocent people - which was a result of his imprisonment and turning by Shin Bet - to be a very good thing. Again, ymmv.

Ok, fine. Look what i'm going to do. I'm going to agree with you here.

Unfortunately, it makes a mess of your 'hypocrite' charge.

294 andres  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 6:08:04pm

re: #35 Cato the Elder

Eh, you know what? I think more Americans emigrate to Canada every year than the other way round.

Both north (Canada) and south (Mexico).

295 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 6:14:40pm

re: #293 Aceofwhat?

Ok, fine. Look what i'm going to do. I'm going to agree with you here.

Unfortunately, it makes a mess of your 'hypocrite' charge.

No mess made. No one is a "hypocrite" because they don't agree with choices their parents made for them when they were children. Palin's parents made the choice about where to take their kids. Child Sarah had no say in the matter. Thus, she's not a "hypocrite."

Also, she's using the example to note the irony because so many Canadians come here for health care; she's not supporting the Canadian system, she's pointing out that Canadians come to the U.S. for their medical care.

296 harry91  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 6:22:53pm

re: #295 SeafoodGumbo

No mess made. No one is a "hypocrite" because they don't agree with choices their parents made for them when they were children. Palin's parents made the choice about where to take their kids. Child Sarah had no say in the matter. Thus, she's not a "hypocrite."

Also, she's using the example to note the irony because so many Canadians come here for health care; she's not supporting the Canadian system, she's pointing out that Canadians come to the U.S. for their medical care.

Give me the percentage of Canadians who go to the US for healthcare.

297 webevintage  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 6:23:22pm

re: #12 SanFranciscoZionist

True. It's a pretty irrelevent story.

On the other hand, on top of the discovery that she and her married family get their health care through Todd's tribal membership--there's just something so horribly irritating about her on this topic.

Indeed when you consider her comments about sitting around the kitchen table when they were first married wondering how they would pay for health care.

298 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 6:27:55pm

re: #295 SeafoodGumbo

No mess made. No one is a "hypocrite" because they don't agree with choices their parents made for them when they were children. Palin's parents made the choice about where to take their kids. Child Sarah had no say in the matter. Thus, she's not a "hypocrite."

Also, she's using the example to note the irony because so many Canadians come here for health care; she's not supporting the Canadian system, she's pointing out that Canadians come to the U.S. for their medical care.

oh. because before, i could have sworn you said he was a hypocrite.

299 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 6:37:08pm

re: #298 Aceofwhat?

oh. because before, i could have sworn you said he was a hypocrite.

Look up! The Sarcasm Jet flew right over your head and you didn't even notice.

300 oldegeezr  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 6:56:55pm

re: #295 SeafoodGumbo

“…Also, she's using the example to note the irony because so many Canadians come here for health care; she's not supporting the Canadian system, she's pointing out that Canadians come to the U.S. for their medical care.”

SfG…I’m thinkin’ yer comment is rather more than passé…!

Insurance providers, here in the US, are raising their rates by 29 to 39 percent…this year for the policies of their [totally,filthy, rich] policy holder’s.

I’m 71 years olde and was dropped from my employer’s health insurance last year, since I wasn’t working full time, a thirty hour a week, as a consultant.

I can appreciate their [my employer’s] circumstance, especially as their health insurance costs have escalated to levels that are beyond ridicules…!

However; I’m also very fortunate since… I’m on Medi Care [govmint provided health care] and also receive my drug prescriptions from the VA for an $8.00 cop-pay due to my service in combat.

So SeafoodGumbo… I’d say stick yer salty sea, attitude were “the sun don’t shine”…!

Olde soldier sends all the very best regards…!

301 Cineaste  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 7:01:28pm

re: #27 TampaKnight

I don't know WHY people continue to compare Canada to the US in this health care debate. The differences in population, culture, society, economics, goals, purposes, etc. are all vastly different.

difference in population: they have a population centered around a handful of major cities separated by great distances that are more sparsely populated, we have the same, they have 33.3 million people, we have 10 times as many, they have a GDP of $1.4T and we have 10 times as much - frankly, it's remarkably proportional.

difference in culture: in Quebec they speak French, they like curling.

difference in society: huh? demographics? They're mostly white, we're mostly white (by a smaller margin).

difference in economics: they have prioritized certain things like national healthcare and spend less on defense since we can protect them but they're a member of NAFTA and so are we. Also, they didn't have a single bank take-over last year.

difference in goals: huh? They want to be happy, healthy and prosperous - we want to be the same.

difference in purposes: I don't even know what this means.

Yes, they have prioritized a more encompassing central government to provide more services and that is different but we have done the same to create a military that is more expensive than the next 14 most expensive militaries combined. We both believe in big, expensive central governments, we just don't like to admit it to ourselves and we don't like that big, expensive central government to provide things of direct utility.

And for the record, I still believe single payer health care in the US would be the biggest disaster ever.

I'm stunned. /

302 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 7:39:27pm

I don't know why, but I'm smelling something funny in here.

303 oldegeezr  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 7:52:30pm

re: #302 Charles

I donoe, Chas…

I always wear my heart on my sleeve…an I always wipe my nose with my glove…

Have I up chucked…?

Oh that...!

304 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 7:56:51pm

re: #300 oldegeezr

No thanks.

305 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 7:58:03pm

re: #302 Charles

I don't know why, but I'm smelling something funny in here.

Charles, I think my point is a valid one - that you can't call people hypocrites for things they did as children, at their parents' direction. I don't know why that smells "funny."

306 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:01:33pm

re: #3 researchok

There is this to consider: Maybe the closest quality care Palin needed was in Canada.

Wasilla is a long way off from UCLA Med.

That would depend on which province or territory she went to. The closest would be the Yukon, hardly a place with UCLA level medicine.

307 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:02:52pm

re: #306 b_sharp

And the roads are for shit.

308 oldegeezr  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:12:02pm

re: #305 SeafoodGumbo

So her parents were the fools before she had an opportunity to make an adult decision…?

Damn… my daddy and mommy didn’t know there arses’s from a holes in the ground…and the Lord knows they were wrong…

You jerkbah…!

309 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:17:42pm

re: #307 Obdicut

And the roads are for shit.

And many are only open during the winter.

310 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:20:48pm

re: #305 SeafoodGumbo

Charles, I think my point is a valid one - that you can't call people hypocrites for things they did as children, at their parents' direction. I don't know why that smells "funny."

The hypocrisy is in the fact that she herself acknowledges that her family benefited from public health care, yet she is now one of the chief purveyors of fear-mongering BS about public health care.

Thought it was obvious.

311 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:22:09pm

re: #303 oldegeezr

Bye now!

312 swamprat  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:24:06pm

Waiting for the democratic response to this issue. Followed by the Fox news special. Followed by the republican rejoinder. I am waiting for the Sarah Palin channel- ask your service provider.

313 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:26:19pm

I hate to jump in late, well not really, I do it all the time, but SeaFoodGumbo is right, you can't condemn a kid for what his/her parents did.

You can however, condemn the kid as a adult when that adult refuses to research her claims and simply makes a statement such as, "Canada's medical system is so good my parents used it when I was a kid" in order to kiss the butts of a few Canucks all the while using the same mouth (that same mouth that just sucked Canadian ass) that has repeatedly claimed systems like the Canadian system suck ass.

314 swamprat  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:30:11pm

re: #313 b_sharp

I'm sure she will address the controversy on her twitter, or facebook or something. Her fans will say "how adorable". Her detractors will say "bunk!" Both sides will still think the same of her.

315 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:32:34pm

re: #314 swamprat

I'm sure she will address the controversy on her twitter, or facebook or something. Her fans will say "how adorable". Her detractors will say "bunk!" Both sides will still think the same of her.

I can't quite figure out why so many can't quite figure out how really stupid, in the really stupid sense, she is.

316 ckb  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:51:35pm

re: #75 pharmmajor

Okay, this has been boiling up for too long, so please allow me to vent:

Fuck Sarah Palin, Fuck Barack Obama, Fuck George Bush, Fuck Hillary Clinton, Fuck Tom Delay, Fuck Nancy Pelosi, Fuck Harry Reid, Fuck John McCain, Fuck Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Moore, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, Ann Coulter, Bill Maher; fuck every pundit and politician who exploit hatred, fear and animosity to further their power base and fuck all the empty-headed sheep who call themselves "Democrats" and "Republicans" that mindlessly follow them.

One for the ages. Quoted for posterity.

317 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:53:17pm

re: #310 Charles

The hypocrisy is in the fact that she herself acknowledges that her family benefited from public health care, yet she is now one of the chief purveyors of fear-mongering BS about public health care.

Thought it was obvious.

Sarah Palin "owns" her (your characterization) "fear-mongering BS about public health care." She's a grown woman in her 40's making public comments.

Child Sarah Palin doesn't "own" her parents taking the family to Canada for health care.

For someone to be a "hypocrite," it seems that we should be saying someone has inconsistency between their actions and their professed morals when they're an adult.

I'm curious what your definition of "hypocrite" is...

318 swamprat  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:54:32pm

re: #303 oldegeezr

I donoe, Chas

I always wear my heart on my sleeve…an I always wipe my nose with my glove…

Have I up chucked…?

Oh that...!

William Teach?....got some serious stalking action going on. Google "chas" "Charles Johnson" lgf....Bunches of derogatory snides and snipes by a slew of different nicks...but they all sound the same.

319 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 8:55:04pm

re: #317 SeafoodGumbo

I'm curious what your definition of "hypocrite" is...

hypocrite %P%ˈhipəˌkrit%P%
noun
a person who indulges in hypocrisy.

320 ckb  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:00:40pm

re: #310 Charles

The hypocrisy is in the fact that she herself acknowledges that her family benefited from public health care, yet she is now one of the chief purveyors of fear-mongering BS about public health care.

Thought it was obvious.

It's not. What her *parents* did when she was a kid, living in a place that doesn't appear to have a ROAD to it, is not relevant to 2010.

I tried to get directions by care from Skagway, AK to Whitehorse, Yukon with Google maps. It could not do it. In a place like this I'm sure the border pretty much disappears for daily life. If you ask for directions to Juneau, it sends you to the Ferry.

321 FullRoller  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:08:44pm

It all boils down to the notion that somehow what her parents decided back in the 60's somehow reflects of her? Give me a freakin' break, how pathetically desperate can some people be?

322 Laroon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:10:26pm

OK... Charles, I'm a big fan of yours but I'm starting to detect a little Palin derangement syndrome here. I don't see the hypocrisy of pointing out that the "irony" is that in the beginning Canada's system worked great, but now it's the Canadians that have to use the US system often because our own is so crowded - sometimes to the point of being totally inaccessible. (hence why Jadespring's comment isn't really relevant either).
Just because Canada's healthcare system was good doesn't mean it was sustainable - it wasn't and isn't and sinks the provinces into enormous and growing deficits every year and yes, that affects quality and accessibility of care.
It is a disservice to the American people to try to boil down healthcare to two choices - private or Canada's way. There are other models and alternatives. Canada's way isn't the worst option, but it's not the best either. And not an experiment worth repeating on the scale of a population like the US's... in my opinion.

323 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:10:53pm

re: #319 Charles

hypocrite %P%ˈhipəˌkrit%P%
noun
a person who indulges in hypocrisy.


hyp·o·crite
   /ˈhɪpəkrɪt/ Show Spelled[hip-uh-krit] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2.
a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

324 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:12:04pm

re: #323 SeafoodGumbo

hyp·o·crite
   /ˈhɪpəkrɪt/ Show Spelled[hip-uh-krit] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2.
a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

Time to read your own definition, I guess. Again.

325 jaunte  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:17:46pm

re: #321 FullRoller

My initial reaction was that she didn't have much to do with the decision back then. But reminiscing in the present day about how her family used to take advantage of a system she now thinks should be dismantled makes her look like a hypocrite, a fool, or both.

326 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:18:33pm

re: #321 FullRoller

What it boils down to is that she had experienced health care in Canada and then described it in a way she knew first-hand was false. That qualifies as hypocrisy in my book.

327 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:22:29pm

Palin personally benefited from Canadian health care when she was a child, but now is one of America's most extreme fear-mongering opponents of creating a system that would benefit other people's children.

It's really not that difficult to understand if you stop spinning like crazy.

328 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:39:42pm

re: #317 SeafoodGumbo

Sarah Palin "owns" her (your characterization) "fear-mongering BS about public health care." She's a grown woman in her 40's making public comments.

Child Sarah Palin doesn't "own" her parents taking the family to Canada for health care.

For someone to be a "hypocrite," it seems that we should be saying someone has inconsistency between their actions and their professed morals when they're an adult.

I'm curious what your definition of "hypocrite" is...

Someone who uses her special-needs child as a prop for fear-mongering, lying, false-from-the-ground-up scare tactics about nonexistent "death panels", just maybe might could be?

329 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:44:27pm

re: #327 Charles

Palin personally benefited from Canadian health care when she was a child, but now is one of America's most extreme fear-mongering opponents of creating a system that would benefit other people's children.

It's really not that difficult to understand if you stop spinning like crazy.

Okay. Agreed. People are hypocrites when, as adults, they are vehement against something they involuntarily took part in when they were very young children.

330 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:47:33pm

re: #329 SeafoodGumbo

Okay. Agreed. People are hypocrites when, as adults, they are vehement against something they involuntarily took part in when they were very young children.

You dumb farmer, as my old dad would say.

She benefited from it as a child and now looks back in horror at that benefit. That is hypocrisy.

Now go hoe a row of beets, idiot.

331 SeafoodGumbo  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 9:55:31pm

re: #330 Cato the Elder

You dumb farmer, as my old dad would say.

She benefited from it as a child and now looks back in horror at that benefit. That is hypocrisy.

Now go hoe a row of beets, idiot.

You're right! We are all to be held accountable, till the day we die, for every awful transgression we committed when we were eight or 11 - I can't believe I let my parents tell me which doctor to go to.

332 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 11:49:35pm

re: #310 Charles

The hypocrisy is in the fact that she herself acknowledges that her family benefited from public health care, yet she is now one of the chief purveyors of fear-mongering BS about public health care.

Thought it was obvious.

I was going to ask a similar question. Are we now demanding lifelong, rigid consistency of position on issues, all the way back through childhood?

I really don't care much for Palin, but I'm not seeing where, exactly, the problem lies here. There are lots of things I did and believed when I was a child, even a young adult, that I now hold precisely opposite beliefs on and wouldn't even consider doing.

A charge of hypocrisy implies simultaneity. There seems to be a gulf of decades separating the events and positions here. If Palin were currently running over to Canada for treatment, while decrying such treatment plans, hypocrisy would be a fitting charge. Thirty or forty years after the fact, not so much.

333 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 8, 2010 11:57:01pm

re: #327 Charles

Palin personally benefited from Canadian health care when she was a child, but now is one of America's most extreme fear-mongering opponents of creating a system that would benefit other people's children.

It's really not that difficult to understand if you stop spinning like crazy.

Ronald Reagan was once President of the Screen Actor's Guild Union. He went on to be strongly opposed to several other unions, and was inclined against unions in general.

The gulf of time separating the two positions seems to remove all hint of hypocrisy. Had either person here done both things simultaneously - held a union position while decrying unions, or denounced nationalized health care while skipping across the border to partake of it - I'd buy it. But as things stand, the charge seems less than thin.

334 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 12:01:42am

re: #332 SixDegrees


A charge of hypocrisy implies simultaneity. There seems to be a gulf of decades separating the events and positions here. If Palin were currently running over to Canada for treatment, while decrying such treatment plans, hypocrisy would be a fitting charge. Thirty or forty years after the fact, not so much.

If there were an isolated event, that would be pretty fair, although for her to reference government healthcare as an afternoon lark or even something generally positive after prophesying babies would be killed by the government were we ever to consider something miles more conservative than her occasional childhood health care is a little convenient.

But, fortunately, it's not in isolation. We already know that Palin is very currently using government-funded health care for Trigg (apparently Trigg passed the death panel run by IHS?) and yet, again, she had no problems threatening that expanding such services would result in dead babies. Going to say it again, because she made this ridiculous charge. Dead. Babies.

Taking the two points together, we now see a pattern of benefit for the Palins personally from government-run insurance and government run healthcare. I think hypocrisy always was an accurate charge; this just makes it, as she herself said, ironic.

335 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 12:16:17am

re: #334 torrentprime

If there were an isolated event, that would be pretty fair, although for her to reference government healthcare as an afternoon lark or even something generally positive after prophesying babies would be killed by the government were we ever to consider something miles more conservative than her occasional childhood health care is a little convenient.

But, fortunately, it's not in isolation. We already know that Palin is very currently using government-funded health care for Trigg (apparently Trigg passed the death panel run by IHS?) and yet, again, she had no problems threatening that expanding such services would result in dead babies. Going to say it again, because she made this ridiculous charge. Dead. Babies.

Taking the two points together, we now see a pattern of benefit for the Palins personally from government-run insurance and government run healthcare. I think hypocrisy always was an accurate charge; this just makes it, as she herself said, ironic.

No, it really isn't accurate. As noted, hypocrisy demands simultaneity. Otherwise, everyone on the planet is a hypocrite. In real life, though, people change their mind.

Was Reagan a hypocrite? I'm sure I could come up with dozens of other, similar examples of politicians changing their position dramatically, even over their political lifetime, let alone reaching all the way back into childhood.

In the case of Trig, the charge may actually hold water; I don't know the details, and I really don't want to waste my time reading about Sarah Palin, who deserves to be righteously ignored in my opinion. But trying to label what she did as a child in light of her positions as an adult as hypocrisy just doesn't fly for me. It smacks of the sort of "All Hate, All The Time" bullshit that I had to wade through on forums during both the Clinton and Bush Administrations and that I am so heartily sick of.

It's not like there's any shortage of topics to legitimately criticize Palin for. I don't see the need to make shit up, to spin each and every act an utterance into a twisted distortion wrapped around glowing Palin-hatred.

336 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 12:27:20am

re: #335 SixDegrees


In the case of Trig, the charge may actually hold water; I don't know the details, and I really don't want to waste my time reading about Sarah Palin, who deserves to be righteously ignored in my opinion.

It's not like there's any shortage of topics to legitimately criticize Palin for. I don't see the need to make shit up, to spin each and every act an utterance into a twisted distortion wrapped around glowing Palin-hatred.

Your position boils down to "if we ignore the thing I admit I don't know much about, the entire argument falls apart because of the one thing I keep fixating on." Respectfully, our point is that this is a larger argument. This was a silly/funny/ironic bit of confirmation as to her unseriousness and lack of logical consistency. No one is hanging their entire argument or opinion on this story. It absolutely fits the larger pattern and charge of hypocrisy though - we're not backing down from that. Her habits of "feeding from the government trough" are well documented, both as a citizen and as a politician. Last, to assume that we "hate" Palin is to accept the right-wing frame. Most of us find her silly and view the scenario of her as POTUS to be scary, but to say we hate the woman is to give our feelings far too much edge. Now that the election is over, I only care about her to the point she muddies our political discourse, no more.

337 jim_beam  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 12:43:36am

WOW, she was 6 years old or something! How is that hypocritical at all?

I don't know about you, Charles, but I could barely understand simple Canadian concepts like "frosty breath" when I was six, let alone socialized medicine.

Another note, the health care system of the 1960's was definitely a LOT different than the system in 2010. This was not a full fledged socialist system. It had user fees. Private hospitals and clinics were allowed, wages were not controlled by the government. The Canadian system was built in a piecemeal fashion, it didn't happen overnight.

Palin's statement means nothing, and any attempt to find meaning is shallow and pedantic.

338 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 1:08:54am

re: #332 SixDegrees

I was going to ask a similar question. Are we now demanding lifelong, rigid consistency of position on issues, all the way back through childhood?.

No. Just a little consistency through less than a year's worth. Palin in August (or so) 2009: DeAtH PaNeL!

339 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 1:16:32am

re: #336 torrentprime

Very well said.

340 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 6:30:32am

Being a Canuck, I would like to point out that while Universal Health Care is "free" for us, it certainly isn't for Non-Canadians. So, it may have been the closest hospital, but almost certainly Palin's folks paid for it. Barring that, they were presented with a bill.

True Universal Health Care didn't come into effect until 1972, simply to keep the minority Liberals in power. As far as I am aware, and I am more than willing to be corrected on this, the government may have been in charge but that does not mean it was being given away. Extra billing in Canada was a normal practice at least until the mid-70's, because I remember my folks paying for doctor's visits.

341 robdouth  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 7:59:34am

This is weird, because Charles has been king of exposing the faux outrageous of the right, but this is a pretty clear example of a faux outrage and a poorly labeled supposed hypocrisy.

It seems very straight forward, (and since when is it hypocrisy to be blamed for what our parents did)? Also, given where they lived, it seems entirely plausible that they could have had to go into Canada in the 60's for healthcare because it was the only decent hospital in the area.

This should have brought some clarity: the part where she says "“And I think now, isn’t that ironic?” which means that in her view it's ironic because now the roles have reversed, meaning Americans should not and are not running across the border, but it's Canadians coming south now. It is completely consistent with what she believes. As to whether she is correct or not, that's another discussion, but nothing she said points to any hypocrisy. This looks like a case where you're looking for hypocrisy where a more simple explanation exists. No worries, happens to the best of us from time to time.

342 DaveC13  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 8:13:55am

Why is she being held to something her parents did?

Besides, her parents were still US citizens and would have to pay out of pocket.

From the AP
[Link: www.google.com...]

Palin's father said his family probably boarded the train for the Whitehorse hospital only twice — once when a daughter had rheumatic fever, and once when his son, also named Chuck, severely burned his leg and an infection set in.

"We much preferred to use our facilities because my insurance didn't cover anything in Whitehorse. And even though they have socialized medicine, I still had to pay the bill, being an American citizen," Heath said.

343 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 9:48:59am

This must be the talking point everyone has settled on.

"Our beloved Sarah is NOT a hypocrite! How dare you!"

It's predictable and pathetic.

344 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 9:50:58am

re: #335 SixDegrees

As noted, hypocrisy demands simultaneity.

Really? Gee, I must have missed that rule when I learned what "hypocrisy" means.

How about the fact that she's simultaneously acknowledging that she benefited from public health care, but at the same time wants to stop other children from receiving the same benefits? Not "simultaneous" enough for you?

345 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 1:27:28pm

re: #344 Charles


How about the fact that she's simultaneously acknowledging that she benefited from public health care, but at the same time wants to stop other children from receiving the same benefits? Not "simultaneous" enough for you?

Um, I hate to do this, but she didn't benefit from socialized medicine. She went to the nearest doctor and her father paid for it. The Canadian taxpayer did not pay for her visits to Canadian doctors. It simply makes her obtuse in that she thought it was "free".

Her example, in and of itself, is flawed. It speaks to the deeper idiocy of the woman, but not of hypocrisy.

346 DaveC13  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 2:08:05pm

There's a difference between receiving care and taking advantage of a health care system.

It's nuanced but it's there.

Damn her for being 6 and not questioning her parents for taking her siblings to Canada for emergency care.

347 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 4:02:05pm

re: #346 DaveC13

"Taking advantage of a health-care system" would be what the insurance companies do here in America.

348 robdouth  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 4:15:55pm

re: #344 Charles

She mentioned that she went to Canada for healthcare in the 60's. This is a huge stretch to say she benefitted from free healthcare and is now denying it to US kids. That makes a lot of assumptions. One - the healthcare coverage she get in the 60's was free and universal to her and her family (it wasn't as noted above.) It also assumes that if the Democrats enact Universal Healthcare, that it will be a benefit to kids, moreso than our current system (which may be in some, and not others case, and isn't clear long term). It's also somewhat petty to make it sound like we agree with Palin just because we disagree with faulty logic and mislabeled hypocrisy.

Call my opinion a concurrent opinion, like in the Supreme Court. I disagree with Palin, but for other more logical reasons, not this which is a stretch and just seems like a faux outrage, which you usually blow holes in. It's like the Danny Glover non-defense, defense during the Haiti misunderstanding. Danny Glover is crazy as you stated, but that time you gave him the benefit of the doubt. I agreed with you then for the same reason I disagree with you now. I try to take every statement, from every person at face value before I ascribe nefarious motives.

349 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 6:49:02pm

re: #348 robdouth

You mean "concurring".

350 DaveC13  Tue, Mar 9, 2010 7:34:46pm

How's this for irony..

That over 40 years ago, the Heath family went to Canada for an emergency..

Earlier this year, the Canadian Premier of Newfoundland went to the US to have heart surgery.

[Link: www.vancouversun.com...]


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