Texas BOE Throws Thomas Jefferson Down the Memory Hole

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Yesterday in Texas, the State Board of Education, packed with Republican creationists and “social conservatives” by Governor Rick Perry, voted to take Texas schoolchildren back into the Dark Ages.

Kids in Texas public schools will no longer be taught about one of the greatest political philosophers in American history, Thomas Jefferson. That’s right. They removed Thomas Jefferson from the curriculum — replacing him with religious right icon John Calvin. There’s no mystery about why they did this, either; among the founding fathers, Jefferson was one of the strongest advocates for the separation of church and state, and that’s exactly what these cretins are trying to reverse.

And the removal of Jefferson is not all, not by a long shot. Also thrown down the memory hole: the Enlightenment.

What’s going on in Texas is a genuine outrage; a frightening example of what happens when religious fanatics get into positions of power.

Texas Freedom Network live-blogged the hearings, in horror: Blogging the Social Studies Debate IV.

The latest update:

12:38 – Let the word go out here: The Texas State Board of Education today refused to require that students learn that the Constitution prevents the U.S. government from promoting one religion over all others. They voted to lie to students by omission.

Jump to bottom

232 comments
1 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:08:17am

Oh, Texas…

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:09:46am

*speechless*

3 teleskiguy  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:09:57am

I didn’t know Thomas Jefferson was a sekrit kommunist godless heathen. Thank Yaweh for saving the precious Texas school children from the dreaded and evil Thomas Jefferson.

//

4 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:10:00am

It can happen here.

5 Jadespring  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:10:01am

You know it’s bad when kids in entirely different countries will end up knowing more about US history then those that live there. Heck I’m not even American and I learned about Jefferson in school.

6 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:10:29am

That’s the strangest thing. Wouldn’t it concern people across the political spectrum? Thomas Jefferson is a hero to many, or at the very least someone to admire. I didn’t read the link yet, but the news itself was surprising. What could they be thinking?

7 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:10:31am

CALVIN is now an icon of the right? i have to sign away my free will AND my science education to remain in the party??

8 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:10:42am

The Texas Ministry of truth strikes again. .. if you read the liveblog at Texas freedom network you will see that they also don’t like Capitalism or Free Markets, and also opted to toss them down the memory hole. The only good news here is that this is the last hurrah of Don McElroy’s holy horde as he lost his seat in the last election.

9 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:10:57am

re: #5 Jadespring

These are the same people who think that liberals have a propagandistic agenda. I guess the beam in their own eye inhibits their thinking somewhat.

10 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:11:27am

They also discarded the word “enlightenment”. Because enlightenment could lead to Buddhism.

11 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:11:33am

re: #3 teleskiguy

I didn’t know Thomas Jefferson was a sekrit kommunist godless heathen. Thank Yaweh for saving the precious Texas school children from the dreaded and evil Thomas Jefferson.

//

I think he also spent time in France! FRANCE!

12 garhighway  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:11:42am

re: #6 Silvergirl

That’s the strangest thing. Wouldn’t it concern people across the political spectrum? Thomas Jefferson is a hero to many, or at the very least someone to admire. I didn’t read the link yet, but the news itself was surprising. What could they be thinking?

Because only certain parts of the political spectrum care about the curriculum being, you know, true.

Other parts prefer the ideologically-pure fairy tales.

13 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:11:46am

re: #9 Obdicut

These are the same people who think that liberals have a propagandistic agenda. I guess the beam in their own eye inhibits their thinking somewhat.

heh. well quoted.

14 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:12:28am

re: #10 Cato the Elder

They also discarded the word “enlightenment”. Because enlightenment could lead to Buddhism.

I so want to live in the middle ages again.

15 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:13:13am

re: #7 Aceofwhat?

CALVIN is now an icon of the right? i have to sign away my free will AND my science education to remain in the party??

Don’t forget your daughter’s rights to control their own bodies…you gotta give that up too…for their own good, of course.

16 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:13:38am

Is this where SpaceJesus starts to approve of home schooling?

17 jaunte  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:13:40am

Maybe changing the school textbook system to a ‘print on demand’ process would help neutralize influence of the Texas religious right.

18 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:13:47am

re: #7 Aceofwhat?

CALVIN is now an icon of the right? i have to sign away my free will AND my science education to remain in the party??

See Mandy’s avatar.

19 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:14:04am

What the fucking hell?

20 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:14:26am

For any who might be unfamiliar with “Memory Hole” here’s the pertinent section from the Wiki on it:

In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages, to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and in the side wall, within easy reach of Winston’s arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building.(pp. 34-35)

In the novel, the memory hole is a slot into which government officials deposit politically inconvenient documents and records to be destroyed. Nineteen Eighty-Four’s protagonist Winston Smith, who works in the Ministry of Truth, is routinely assigned the task of revising old newspaper articles in order to serve the propaganda interests of the government. For example, if the government had pledged that the chocolate ration would not fall below the current 30 grams per week, but in fact the ration is reduced to 20 grams per week, the historical record (e.g., an article from a back issue of the Times newspaper) is revised to contain an announcement that a reduction to 20 grams might soon prove necessary, or that the ration, then 15 grams, would soon be increased to that number. The original copies of the historical record are deposited into the memory hole.

21 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:15:26am

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They don’t actually like the United States very much.

22 Virginia Plain  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:15:31am
12:38 – Let the word go out here: The Texas State Board of Education today refused to require that students learn that the Constitution prevents the U.S. government from promoting one religion over all others. They voted to lie to students by omission.

This is the latest update.

23 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:15:50am

re: #9 Obdicut

These are the same people who think that liberals have a propagandistic agenda. I guess the beam in their own eye inhibits their thinking somewhat.

I’m just glad that Texas kids won’t be a threat in educational olympics, like national debates, science competitions, etc.

24 Virginia Plain  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:15:52am

re: #21 Obdicut

They don’t actually like the United States very much.

They would do better in the KSA or Iran

25 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:15:58am

and with a warm, friendly, ear to ear grin

26 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:16:18am

re: #18 Cato the Elder

See Mandy’s avatar.

I did my best yesterday to offer my two cents on that. I understand if i came across as waffling…

27 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:16:52am

Oh, and to repost:

Here are two of the assholes that kicked this off way back when:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Some of their objections were aimed at the story of Robin Hood on the grounds that it sanctioned stealing and a history textbook that says, “The law that allowed slavery in America was wrong, so people could break the law.” on the grounds that the statement encourages insubordination.[2]

Many people were alarmed at the activities of the Gablers. PZ Myers, a University of Minnesota biology professor, said that Mel Gabler was “a dishonest old man who reviewed biology textbooks through the lens of his own stupidity and religious prejudice, and he was darned good at it.”[3] Myers also criticized the Texas Board of Education for “taking Gabler seriously” .[3] Myers noted that unlike many Young Earth Creationists who claim to make a distinction between “microevolution” (which they acknowledge) and “macroevolution” (which they do not) the Gablers explicitly rejected microevolution as well.[3] Critics often noted that neither of the Gablers had college degrees, although Mel Gabler attended college for one year.

28 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:17:21am

re: #21 Obdicut

They don’t actually like the United States very much.

can we question their patriotism now//

29 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:18:18am

text books are a huge money maker…somebody is gonna make a ton of money…religion in America is the new blockbuster goldmine

30 Summer Seale  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:18:19am

I keep trying to say that I’m not surprised by anything these people will do. But then, as it actually happens in the real world and not just my deepest fears, it does shock me that they aren’t actually talking about these sorts of things but are actually doing them…each and every time.

It’s one thing to imagine and fear for the worst; it’s another thing to watch it happening before your eyes.

There was an interview with a former evangelical creationist several months ago on Point of Inquiry where he explains that all these people do not live in the same country, or even planet, as we do - that their “reality” is so different from ours that there is no closing of the gap.

This is just yet another thing which proves this particular point of view absolutely correct.

31 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:18:57am

Not only should they have to learn about Thomas Jefferson, they should have to read his actual words, not just someone’s summary of them.

32 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:18:59am

Some teacher who got laid off in Modesto, when asked by her class what she’d do, said “I’m going to become a stripper and sell my eggs.” (obviously a bit of sarc there)…well, one girl told her mother, and they got to be on MSNBC demanding an apology. The spokesmodel on MSNBC said, “Well, she’s been laid off. What else can they do to her?” Hilarity.

33 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:19:01am

re: #7 Aceofwhat?

CALVIN is now an icon of the right? i have to sign away my free will AND my science education to remain in the party??

Calvin is an icon of the “Stone the Gays” style dominionists, from North to Rushdoony. While many fundamentalist types will publicly decry that, they keep Rushdooney’s and Calvin’s books under their mattresses and pull them out to fantasize about under the covers with at night.

34 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:19:14am

I’m glad we have a thread on this. I couldn’t believe it when simoon posted those excerpts from TFN last night. Much, much worse than I could even have imagined.

35 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:19:18am

re: #28 Aceofwhat?

can we question their patriotism now//

sure, but faith trumps patriotism

36 Jadespring  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:19:19am

re: #9 Obdicut

These are the same people who think that liberals have a propagandistic agenda. I guess the beam in their own eye inhibits their thinking somewhat.

I think their argument on those points would be that they are just ‘correcting’ the ‘liberal propragandist agenda’ that’s been foisted on the country since it’s inception.

37 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:19:25am

re: #30 Summer

well…you are just a figment of my imagination, so…

38 teleskiguy  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:20:36am

This is a disgrace. I have friends raising children in Texas, and those children won’t be exposed to Jefferson? What’s next, flat-earth “God created what you see in 6 days” bullshit? Oh wait…

(head slams down on keyboard)

ialdfshpioguwq34fweioguoo38y94ty3etyhi8uq3gt

39 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:20:45am

re: #34 iceweasel

I’m glad we have a thread on this. I couldn’t believe it when simoon posted those excerpts from TFN last night. Much, much worse than I could even have imagined.

just the tip of the iceburg

40 Donna Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:21:13am

I find it sad that our greatest American Hero’s are being tossed to the wind. When I was in school we had to study all of the founding fathers and how they created our great nation. Makes me want to cry as Texas used to be such a great state and now their throwing it all away.

41 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:21:24am

Next Juneteenth, maybe the Texas school system could be liberated.

42 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:21:56am

re: #41 EmmmieG

Next Juneteenth, maybe the Texas school system could be liberated.

INVADE!

43 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:22:09am

At least students will only have to learn the sixteen official presidents of the United States:
-Ulysses S. Grant

-Rutherford B. Hayes

-James A. Garfield

-Chester A. Arthur

-Benjamin Harrison

-William McKinley

-Theodore Roosevelt

-William Howard Taft

-Warren G. Harding

-John Calvin Coolidge

-Herbet Hoover

-Dwight Eisenhower

-Richard Nixon

-Gerald Ford

-Ronald Reagan

-George H.W. Bush

-Geroge W. Bush

44 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:22:21am

re: #5 Jadespring

You know it’s bad when kids in entirely different countries will end up knowing more about US history then those that live there. Heck I’m not even American and I learned about Jefferson in school.

Reminds me of a favorite joke:

A tenth grade history teacher is having the usual trouble keeping her students interested. She decides to play a game in which she will read a quote from history, and the students must give her a name and date for it.

She begins “Ok, tell me who said this and when it was said, ‘Give me liberty or give me death!’”
The kids sit there glassy-eyed, except for this Japanese boy sitting at the front of the class. He quickly puts up his hand and declares “That was Patrick Henry, 1770!”
“Right, excellent,” says the teacher. “The next one is ‘I have not yet begun to fight!”
Again, only the Japanese kid knows the answer, “John Paul Jones, 1778!”

This goes on for a while and the teacher becomes frustrated, “Ya know, I’m ashamed of you kids who were born here. We have this young man from Japan, who has only lived here 6 months, and he literally knows more about your history than all of you put together.”

She turns around to write something on the board. Somebody at the back of the room mumbles, “Fuck them Japanese anyway.”

The teacher hears this. Outraged, she spins around and demands, “WHO SAID THAT!!? WHO SAID THAT!!?”

One of the American kids, unheard from up to this time, raises her hand and says, “Harry Truman, 1945.”

45 TampaKnight  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:22:53am

I just need to chime in with this- I fully and utterly disagree with Charles’ assertion that Romney is “devolving” by now opposing abortion, and that the Republican party is “radical” for opposing abortion as well.

That’s a fairly ridiculous claim. Abortion goes way beyond a simple political matter.

46 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:22:59am

Meanwhile two states over narrow minded bigots have canceled a prom to spite everyone because one person wanted to attend with a same sex date.

47 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:23:32am

They also stuffed the second amendment into a section meant to be covering the first:

1:21 – Board member Barbara Cargill wants to insert a discussion of the right to bear arms in a standard that focuses on First Amendment rights and the expression of various points of view. This is absurd. If they want students to study the right to bear arms, at least try to find an appropriate place in the standards for it. This is yet another example of politicians destroying the coherence of a curriculum document for no reason other than promoting ideological pet causes. Republican board member Bob Craig of Lubbock is suggesting a better place for such a standard. But the amendment passes anyway. The board’s far-right faction is simply impervious to logic.

11:30 – Board member Pat Hardy notes that elsewhere the standards already require students to study each of the freedoms and rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. No one seems to care.

11:33 – Bob Craig tries, once again, to talk some sense into these folks. Board member Cynthia Dunbar argues that the original standard’s focus on the rights of “petition, assembly, speech, and press in a democratic society” unfairly emphasizes the First Amendment over others. She suggests taking that out altogether if the Second Amendment isn’t included. Board member Ken Mercer argues that the right to bear arms is too important not to include here. But it IS included in the standards. The purpose of the original standard is to have students understand the rights to free expression in a democratic society. The right to bear arms is not relevant to that purpose.

They’re also doing this, as Virginia PLain already noted:

Let the word go out here: The Texas State Board of Education today refused to require that students learn that the Constitution prevents the U.S. government from promoting one religion over all others. They voted to lie to students by omission.

48 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:23:46am

re: #43 darthstar

Oh, they’d hate Teddy Roosevelt. He was a goddamn progressive.

49 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:24:11am

re: #45 TampaKnight

FU for going off topic to divert the thread so soon
‘

50 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:24:18am

re: #40 Dragon_Lady

I find it sad that our greatest American Hero’s are being tossed to the wind. When I was in school we had to study all of the founding fathers and how they created our great nation. Makes me want to cry as Texas used to be such a great state and now their throwing it all away.

I think they are priming the pump for the massive influx of of new citizens, people who could care less about Jefferson, but are generally very devout Catholics…maybe not tho

51 TampaKnight  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:24:34am

re: #49 Thanos

FU for going off topic to divert the thread so soon
‘

Mature.

52 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:24:51am

re: #45 TampaKnight

Stick to the topic at hand, please.

53 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:25:16am

After a quick refresher, I fail to see how Calvin’s tenets of total depravity, unconditional election and predestination could possiblly be help up as a replacement for the political teachings and accomplishments of Jefferson.

54 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:25:26am

How about someone makes their avatar Calvin pissing on the Constitution?

55 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:25:31am

re: #45 TampaKnight

So in a thread about religious people trying to destroy education to push their religious views on the nation, you want to threadjack so you can talk about another area that religion tries to push its views on others?

That’s rich.

56 TampaKnight  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:26:09am

re: #55 Obdicut

So in a thread about religious people trying to destroy education to push their religious views on the nation, you want to threadjack so you can talk about another area that religion tries to push its views on others?

That’s rich.

Actually, my stance has not a THING to do with religion.

But thanks for the baseless, false assertion.

57 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:26:25am

re: #53 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

After a quick refresher, I fail to see how Calvin’s tenets of total depravity, unconditional election and predestination could possiblly be help up as a replacement for the political teachings and accomplishments of Jefferson.

held up, not help up

58 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:27:49am

re: #48 Obdicut

Oh, they’d hate Teddy Roosevelt. He was a goddamn progressive.

Pretty much. By their standards, the man would be a RINO and a librul. =P

59 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:28:06am

re: #45 TampaKnight

I just need to chime in with this- I fully and utterly disagree with Charles’ assertion that Romney is “devolving” by now opposing abortion, and that the Republican party is “radical” for opposing abortion as well.

That’s a fairly ridiculous claim. Abortion goes way beyond a simple political matter.

They also oppose Thomas Jefferson.

From Wiki:

Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743 – July 4, 1826)[2] was the third President of the United States (1801–1809), the principal author of the Declaration of Independence (1776), and—for his promotion of the ideals of republicanism in the United States—one of the most influential Founding Fathers. Jefferson envisioned America as the force behind a great “Empire of Liberty”[3] that would promote republicanism and counter the imperialism of the British Empire.

Granted, the “republican” party started by Jefferson is now known as the Democratic party, but it is still ironic when you think about it.

Oh, and try to stay on topic.

60 Donna Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:28:29am

re: #54 Alouette

How about someone makes their avatar Calvin pissing on the Constitution?


I’ll pass thank you. I’m going to hold out hope that someday someone comes to their senses and actually starts to pay attention to what our founding fathers meant when they wrote our constitution. Call me an optimist if you must…

61 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:28:37am

re: #56 TampaKnight

A) Did I say that your stance had something to do with religion?

B) The vast majority of people opposed to abortion are opposed to it on religious grounds.

C) There aren’t any good reasons for opposing safe, legal abortion other than religious ones.

D) The topic of the thread, are you at all interested in it? Concerns you any?

62 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:28:39am

So lets just have a quick run down of people not fit to be examples of great Americans now.

Teddy Rosevelt
Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Jefferson

Who else do we throw aside? Fucking bastards.

63 Olsonist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:29:01am

re: #56 TampaKnight

So instead of saying what your stance isn’t related to tell us what it is related to.

64 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:29:15am

re: #36 Jadespring

I think their argument on those points would be that they are just ‘correcting’ the ‘liberal propragandist agenda’ that’s been foisted on the country since it’s inception.

Right, by deciding that ‘capitalism’ is now a dirty word—

12:08 – Pat Hardy notes that the scholar who recommended that “capitalism” and “free market” be used in the standards teaches at Texas A&M and is a Republican. He is “not some kind of crazy liberal,” she says.

12:11 – One is tempted to climb to the top of the Texas Education Agency building and shout: “These people have lost their minds.”

12:12 – Pat Hardy is calling out the board for its silliness and the suggestion that “capitalism” is a “nasty word.”

12:13 – Ken Mercer: I think capitalism is a good word, but academics don’t. Really? And where does he get that? This is a classic example of how some board members attack and smear without any facts.

12:15 – Guess what? It passes. The Texas State Board of Education has stricken from the standards references to “capitalism” and “free market” because the board’s right-wingers think “capitalism” is a negative term. The only permitted term for such an economic system will be “free enterprise.” We wouldn’t believe this if we hadn’t just watched it happen. This is so stupid it makes our head hurt.

I thought it was supposed to be liberals that were accused of distorting the language and redefining terms?
Maybe we should just rename ‘capitalism’ ‘pie’. Everyone likes pie!

65 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:29:47am

re: #54 Alouette

How about someone makes their avatar Calvin pissing on the Constitution?

That was a specialty of the last administration.

66 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:29:48am

re: #62 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I’m really surprised they left Paine in there, but they probably believe Beck about him.

67 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:29:56am

re: #14 EmmmieG

I so want to live in the middle ages again.

I’d settle for the Middle Ages over what these folks are proposing. Especially if they taught medieval poets like François Villon in English translation.

Ballad of the Ladies of Bygone Times

Tell me where, or in what land
is Flora, the lovely Roman,
or Archipiades, or Thaïs,
who was her first cousin;
or Echo, replying whenever called
across river or pool,
and whose beauty was more than human?
But where are the snows of yesteryear?

Where is that brilliant lady Heloise,
for whose sake Peter Abelard was castrated
and became a monk at Saint-Denis?
He suffered that misfortune because of his love for her.
And where is that queen who
ordered that Buridan
be thrown into the Seine in a sack?
But where are the snows of yesteryear?

Queen Blanche, white as a lily,
who sang with a siren’s voice;
Big-footed Bertha, Beatrice, Alice,
Arembourg who ruled over Maine;
and Joan, the good maiden of Lorraine
who was burned by the English at Rouen —
where are they, where, O sovereign Virgin?
But where are the snows of yesteryear?

Envoi:

Prince, do not ask in a week
where they are, or in a year.
The only answer you will get is this refrain:
But where are the snows of yesteryear?

68 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:29:59am

re: #63 Olsonist

So instead of saying what your stance isn’t related to tell us what it is related to.

Its much easier to deny, evade and snipe if you never settle in a position.

69 researchok  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:30:00am

re: #4 Obdicut

It can happen here.

You know, I really don’t want to believe that.

Thing is, you’re right.

70 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:30:45am

re: #62 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So lets just have a quick run down of people not fit to be examples of great Americans now.

Teddy Rosevelt
Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Jefferson

Who else do we throw aside? Fucking bastards.

Nope…Fucking bastards are the only ones NOT being thrown aside…then again, they’re the ones making the decisions in Texas.

71 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:31:11am

Gotta fly, but one last thought:

I had a teacher that would flout the school board and teach what she thought was important.

Hooray for teachers like her. I never appreciated her properly until now.

72 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:31:12am

Here’s the overweening religious puritan tyrants that these cretinous luddites follow.

Warning: Evil religious anti-constitutionalist youtube channel

Youtube Video

Note they are calling for revolution…

73 Iron-Confederate  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:31:14am

re: #14 EmmmieG

Hate to bust your balls on this but that was when the Spanish Inquisition started:

Youtube Video

Though if I am wrong, please do correct me.

74 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:31:34am

re: #23 darthstar

I’m just glad that Texas kids won’t be a threat in educational olympics, like national debates, science competitions, etc.

They’ll be real contenders in the Special Education Olympics, though.

75 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:31:52am

re: #47 iceweasel

They also stuffed the second amendment into a section meant to be covering the first:

Bob Craig is, and has always been, a voice of reason on the SBOE. It is a thankless job, or would be if people like me were not around to lend some moral support and provide a counterpoint to the local demogogues who condemn him as a RINO and a closet lefty.

Incidentally, he is sitting not 100 feet from me as we speak and I will probably speak to him personally in pretty short order.

76 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:33:10am

re: #43 darthstar

Strike Richard Nixon. He was in favor of national health care.

77 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:33:11am

re: #75 Shiplord Kirel

Give him my warmest regards: a random American very glad he’s doing what he does.

78 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:33:47am

re: #75 Shiplord Kirel

Bob Craig is, and has always been, a voice of reason on the SBOE. It is a thankless job, or would be if people like me were not around to lend some moral support and provide a counterpoint to the local demogogues who condemn him as a RINO and a closet lefty.

Incidentally, he is sitting not 100 feet from me as we speak and I will probably speak to him personally in pretty short order.

Good for you, and good for him!

79 The Curmudgeon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:33:48am

Jefferson has always been hated by theocrats, even in his own lifetime. They never forgave him for dis-establishing the church in Virginia (with Madison’s help). And they constantly quote-mine his Declaration to pretend that it isn’t an overtly Deist document.

80 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:33:49am

re: #70 darthstar

Nope…Fucking bastards are the only ones NOT being thrown aside…then again, they’re the ones making the decisions in Texas.

Well played sir, well played.

81 Summer Seale  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:34:14am

The one slightly silver lining to this incredible and shameful act is that I can soon look forward to an article by Hitchens on the subject. Hitchens admires Jefferson and reveres him in many ways, and he usually likes to introduce himself as Jefferson’s “biographer”.

I’m fairly certain that Hitchens will tear the TBOE a bigger asshole in public than anyone else could possibly ever dream of doing.

82 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:34:17am

re: #75 Shiplord Kirel

cool

83 Donna Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:34:20am

re: #69 researchok

You know, I really don’t want to believe that.

Thing is, you’re right.

I agree, the thought is quite scary to me. I a proud American, but having said that I’m ashamed to know there are those who aren’t and who want to throw our history into the garbage can because it doesn’t fit their ideals. So, so sad. :-(

84 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:34:31am

re: #67 Cato the Elder

I’d settle for the Middle Ages over what these folks are proposing. Especially if they taught medieval poets like François Villon in English translation.

How about teaching Occitan in the public schools?

85 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:34:36am

re: #76 Cato the Elder

Strike Richard Nixon. He was in favor of national health care.

… and Theodore Roosevelt for the same reason

86 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:34:46am

re: #76 Cato the Elder

Eisenhower continued rural electrification, rural telephony, and built the interstate system. He’s probably off the list.

87 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:34:56am

re: #45 TampaKnight

I just need to chime in with this- I fully and utterly disagree with Charles’ assertion that Romney is “devolving” by now opposing abortion, and that the Republican party is “radical” for opposing abortion as well.

That’s a fairly ridiculous claim. Abortion goes way beyond a simple political matter.

Romney is not merely devolving. He’s spinning around in the devolving door so fast he can’t tell whether he’s coming or going.

88 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:35:09am

re: #71 EmmmieG

Gotta fly, but one last thought:

I had a teacher that would flout the school board and teach what she thought was important.

Hooray for teachers like her. I never appreciated her properly until now.

That’s how I taught when I was a teacher. When I had religious fundie kids refusing to read Othello or Huck Finn on religious grounds, I assigned them Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale as an alternate. Since I could safely assume none of their parents had read it, I was never questioned about why I chose that text for them.

89 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:36:11am

re: #88 darthstar

That’s how I taught when I was a teacher. When I had religious fundie kids refusing to read Othello or Huck Finn on religious grounds, I assigned them Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale as an alternate. Since I could safely assume none of their parents had read it, I was never questioned about why I chose that text for them.

I never read “A Handmaid’s Tale” but I thought the movie sucked.

90 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:36:21am

re: #87 Cato the Elder

While loudly stating that he’s standing perfectly still, and always has been.

91 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:36:23am

re: #54 Alouette

How about someone makes their avatar Calvin pissing on the Constitution?

Would you donate your time to photoshop that for me?

92 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:36:42am

re: #88 darthstar

That’s how I taught when I was a teacher. When I had religious fundie kids refusing to read Othello or Huck Finn on religious grounds, I assigned them Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale as an alternate. Since I could safely assume none of their parents had read it, I was never questioned about why I chose that text for them.

Ha!
Waiting on the day when Texas changes their name to the Republic of Gilead though…a few other states might get there first (OK, for example).

93 researchok  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:36:44am

These are the same people who went apoplectic when some fools wanted to have schools named after Jefferson and Washington re-branded.

I guess it’s OK when you’re white.

I’m all for limited government but the time has come for a national educational standards board. The hard right and left morons have no business rewriting history.

Enough is enough.

94 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:37:18am

re: #71 EmmmieG

Gotta fly, but one last thought:

I had a teacher that would flout the school board and teach what she thought was important.

Hooray for teachers like her. I never appreciated her properly until now.

Upding for the teacher’s feisty attitude, but it could go the other way too. She could have chosen to spread not-so-noble or admirable teachings.

95 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:37:20am

re: #89 Alouette

I never read “A Handmaid’s Tale” but I thought the movie sucked.

It did, but the book is terrific. Just reread it last week, actually.

96 Donna Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:38:16am

Well my Fellow Americans and Lizards, I’m going to go lay down, I’ve tolerated this headache long enough. BBL, and Try to Keep Laughing, will you?

97 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:38:17am

re: #89 Alouette

I never read “A Handmaid’s Tale” but I thought the movie sucked.

The movie missed out on the key points of the book. I would have the students write a paper explaining one simple line from the book in the context of the story, “The pen is envy.” (loved that play on words)

98 teleskiguy  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:38:39am

re: #95 iceweasel

PRAISE BE!

99 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:39:25am

re: #98 teleskiguy

PRAISE BE!

May the Lord open!

signed, Ofjimmah.

100 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:40:31am

re: #95 iceweasel

It did, but the book is terrific. Just reread it last week, actually.

OfCharles would be a great sockpuppet nickname…for riling the nutters.

101 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:40:59am

I wish I had longer to goof off this morning, but my life can’t carry on without me. I haven’t been around for a bit and would love to linger today.

Have a fabulous Friday!

102 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:42:24am

re: #53 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

After a quick refresher, I fail to see how Calvin’s tenets of total depravity, unconditional election and predestination could possiblly be help up as a replacement for the political teachings and accomplishments of Jefferson.

World history’s full of unloveable types, unfortunately. Mencken called Calvin “the Geneva Muhammad”. Yet, he’s an important figure in world history and high school students should know why. Not at the expense of learning about Jefferson, of course.

This curriculum is World History, I gather. Once they start removing Jefferson from U.S. History, then we’re truly over the falls.

More bloggage of the live bloggage is at this Science Blogs page, apologies if it’s already been linked.

103 Martinsmithy  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:42:46am

This decision taken in isolation wouldn’t be too alarming. Thomas Jefferson’s main chapters in textbooks would come in a U.S. history class, not a political philosophy class.

But taken in context, the decision is indeed alarming.

104 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:42:54am

re: #76 Cato the Elder

Strike Richard Nixon. He was in favor of national health care.

And wage & price controls, more fool he.

105 Stan the Demanded Plan  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:42:59am

My one appointment, deep in the traffic hell known as Friday, canceled. Oh joy!

106 subsailor68  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:43:14am

Sigh, I live in the Texas Hill Country, and this SBOE debacle is infuriating. Just off the top of my head, I wonder why we decided it would be a good idea to have people elected to these positions - especially after reading the current list of members. If I were running the SBOE, I’d work as hard as I could to establish expert panels to review, set, update, and verify standards. How?

Hmm….

I guess I’d start by putting together a four or five person panel of freakin’ HISTORIANS to handle the history standards.

And, ummmm….

Oh yeah, how about a four or five person panel of MATHEMATICIANS to handle the math standards?

And, ummm….

Maybe a four or five person panel of CHEMISTS, BIOLOGISTS, PHYSICISTS, etc. to handle the science standards.

And….let me see….

Ah! A four or five person panel of ENGLISH, EUROPEAN, ASIAN, AFRICAN and SOUTH AMERICAN literature professors to handle the English and Literature standards.

And, oh yeah -

A panel of four or five ECONOMICS and BUSINESS experts to handle the economics standards.

And, finally…

The DALLAS COWBOY CHEERLEADERS to handle the physical fitness standards.

(Okay, maybe not the last one.)

But that’s just me.

107 Olsonist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:43:14am

re: #71 EmmmieG

When I lived in Knoxville I had a fundie Biology teacher who wouldn’t teach evolution. My brother and I led a school strike. The principle was quite proud of us.

108 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:43:33am

re: #66 Obdicut

I’m really surprised they left Paine in there, but they probably believe Beck about him.

They also left in Voltaire, one of the biggest mockers of religion ever.

“What can we say to a man who tells you that he would rather obey God than men, and that therefore he is sure to go to heaven for butchering you? Even the law is impotent against these attacks of rage; it is like reading a court decree to a raving maniac. These fellows are certain that the holy spirit with which they are filled is above the law, that their enthusiasm is the only law that they must obey.”

Not that he didn’t believe in God:

“God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best.”

And my favorite:

“If God made us in His image we have certianly returned the compliment.”

109 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:43:34am

re: #102 The Sanity Inspector

they’re blogging about the live bloggers?/

110 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:43:57am

re: #103 Martinsmithy

This decision taken in isolation wouldn’t be too alarming. Thomas Jefferson’s main chapters in textbooks would come in a U.S. history class, not a political philosophy class.

But taken in context, the decision is indeed alarming.

Rubbish. Are you seriously going to suggest that Jefferson isn’t foundational in any political philosophy class, especially a US one?

111 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:44:09am

A Fox News report on this in…
;)

112 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:44:34am

Last week, South Dakota’s state legislature adopted a bill which “urges” schools to take a “balanced approach” to teaching about climate change, because the science is “unresolved” and has been “complicated and prejudiced” by “political and philosophical viewpoints”

spreading like an oil slick fire

Bundling warming with evolution in calls for “academic freedom” may make it harder to challenge these laws. Steve Newton of the National Center for Science Education in Oakland, California, observes that the US constitution restricts the teaching of religious ideas in state schools, but not the teaching of bad science. A study last year found that evangelical Christians, who account for most creationists, are up to three times as likely as other Americans to deny that warming has human origins.

[Link: www.newscientist.com…]

113 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:44:46am

re: #108 Cato the Elder

Heh. Their very ignorance probably cripples them; they don’t know which ones to attack first.

114 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:44:50am

It’s amazing that in some states, the best all around education will probably be only available at Catholic Schools. At least they keep the religious instruction confined to one class, and the other classes are chock full of heresy.

At least that was my experience for 12 years.

115 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:45:07am

re: #106 subsailor68

Sigh, I live in the Texas Hill Country, and this SBOE debacle is infuriating. Just off the top of my head, I wonder why we decided it would be a good idea to have people elected to these positions - especially after reading the current list of members. If I were running the SBOE, I’d work as hard as I could to establish expert panels to review, set, update, and verify standards. How?

Hmm…

I guess I’d start by putting together a four or five person panel of freakin’ HISTORIANS to handle the history standards.

And, ummm…

Oh yeah, how about a four or five person panel of MATHEMATICIANS to handle the math standards?

And, ummm…

Maybe a four or five person panel of CHEMISTS, BIOLOGISTS, PHYSICISTS, etc. to handle the science standards.

And…let me see…

Ah! A four or five person panel of ENGLISH, EUROPEAN, ASIAN, AFRICAN and SOUTH AMERICAN literature professors to handle the English and Literature standards.

And, oh yeah -

A panel of four or five ECONOMICS and BUSINESS experts to handle the economics standards.

And, finally…

The DALLAS COWBOY CHEERLEADERS to handle the physical fitness standards.

(Okay, maybe not the last one.)

But that’s just me.

But why bother with all those supposed experts when everything worth learning can be taught by one book?

///

116 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:45:17am

re: #108 Cato the Elder

Of course they left in Voltaire…you have to remember that Perry and the Texas BOE are a bunch of people who never really paid attention in school. They just want to cater to the fundies who tell them what is and isn’t appropriate.

117 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:45:23am

re: #114 Walter L. Newton

It’s amazing that in some states, the best all around education will probably be only available at Catholic Schools. At least they keep the religious instruction confined to one class, and the other classes are chock full of heresy.

At least that was my experience for 12 years.

likewise

118 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:45:45am

re: #76 Cato the Elder

Strike Richard Nixon. He was in favor of national health care.

Not only that, he worked to desegregate public schools, endorsed the ERA, passed the first real affirmative action program (the Philadelphia Plan), signed of on both Title IX and Title X along with the EEOC, and created the EPA, OSHA, and the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Plus, he was at least nominally pro-choice and supported Roe v. Wade. Oh, and there’s that whole visiting China while Mao was in power thing, and Nixon’s biggest sin of all— taking us off the gold standard.

Just like Teddy Roosevelt, Nixon would be a RINO and librul in today’s Republican party.

119 emcesq  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:45:55am

Texaliban! God is Great!

//if needed

120 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:46:26am

re: #81 Summer

I can’t wait. That will be epic. Hitchens will absolutely rip these idiots a new one.

121 Slap  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:46:51am

I’m thinking this is the first step toward secession and an alliance with Cuba, frankly. (Just picking the geographically-nearest institutionalized distorters of US history here.) Or, there’s a fair amount of hubris for them to think that the country will follow them — “as texas goes, so goes the Union”. The board is clearly unconcerned that texas schoolchildren will be at a significant disadvantage if they ever move to a proper state and attempt to get good grades in history.

Someone brought up devolution?

Youtube Video

(One of the best live bands I’ve ever seen….)

122 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:46:53am

re: #87 Cato the Elder

Romney is not merely devolving. He’s spinning around in the devolving door so fast he can’t tell whether he’s coming or going.

That’s a perfect description of my chosen party atm… caught in a devolving door…

123 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:46:55am

re: #118 Lidane

i admit that one very small silver lining here is reading you singing Nixon’s praises!!

124 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:47:02am

re: #119 emcesq

Texaliban! God is Great!

//if needed

Remember the Allah-mo!

/I could not resist

125 Olsonist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:47:10am

re: #108 Cato the Elder

Sadly, the only Voltaire that anyone reads is Candide. I’ve tried in vain to find anything else at the bookstores but it’s always Candide. Grumble.

126 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:47:21am

re: #45 TampaKnight

I just need to chime in with this- I fully and utterly disagree with Charles’ assertion that Romney is “devolving” by now opposing abortion, and that the Republican party is “radical” for opposing abortion as well.

That’s a fairly ridiculous claim. Abortion goes way beyond a simple political matter.


Abortion should not be a political matter at all. Fuck the Republicans for keeping it their #1 political matter.

127 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:47:43am

re: #117 Aceofwhat?

likewise

Me too. Well, eight years. Then I went to a Baptist high school for a year where they cured me of my faith in god. Public after that.

128 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:48:14am

re: #91 Cato the Elder

Would you donate your time to photoshop that for me?

Here you are.

129 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:48:45am

re: #125 Olsonist

Sadly, the only Voltaire that anyone reads is Candide. I’ve tried in vain to find anything else at the bookstores but it’s always Candide. Grumble.

Candide is good enough though. Pangloss’s “best of all possible worlds” schtick is of course mocking Liebniz and his solution to the problem of theodicy— not that any of these freaks knows that, of course.

130 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:48:57am

re: #113 Obdicut

Heh. Their very ignorance probably cripples them; they don’t know which ones to attack first.

More Voltaire:

“God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.”

And this one, which is written on my battle flag:

“I have only made but one prayer in my life: “O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.” And God granted it.”

131 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:49:22am

re: #123 Aceofwhat?

i admit that one very small silver lining here is reading you singing Nixon’s praises!!

Compared to the whackjobs that control the Republican party these days, Nixon was a fucking saint.

I’d rather live through ten Nixon administrations than ever give any of these lunatics any power again. Of course, I’d also want Hunter S. Thompson to still be alive so he could eviscerate Nixon on a daily basis, but we can’t always get what we want. Heh.

132 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:49:36am

re: #103 Martinsmithy

What utter garbage. Even prior to writing the declaration Jefferson was highly influential, look at the colony and state constitutions if you don’t believe.

133 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:50:16am

re: #93 researchok

These are the same people who went apoplectic when some fools wanted to have schools named after Jefferson and Washington re-branded.

I guess it’s OK when you’re white.

I’m all for limited government but the time has come for a national educational standards board. The hard right and left morons have no business rewriting history.

Enough is enough.

Gotta disagree about the national standards part. It’s easier for a determined faction to take over a single federal department, than it is to take over 50 state BOEs, or 13,000 school districts. There will always be some nuttery afoot in some locale somewhere. But better that should happen, than they should seize control of the national levers of power.

134 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:50:19am

re: #131 Lidane

Gary Trudeau would perk the fuck up if Nixon came back.

135 Olsonist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:50:20am

re: #119 emcesq

Texistan.

136 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:50:26am

re: #126 wrenchwench

Abortion should not be a political matter at all. Fuck the Republicans for keeping it their #1 political matter.

misplaced, your wrath is. it’s quickly becoming another lodestone around our neck, regardless of one’s actual perspective on the topic. self-defeating principles are their own derision…

137 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:50:27am

If the ‘religious fanatics’ are willing to omit history to further their agenda, you CANNOT, I REPEAT, you CANNOT tell me that this same tactic has and was not used on the actual Bible itself in order to keep the power and control the message.

This is not a new concept.

138 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:50:54am

re: #128 Alouette

Here you are.

Oh, my. Thank you!

(((Alouette)))

139 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:50:54am

re: #133 The Sanity Inspector

Can you demonstrate that, please?

140 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:50:56am

Jefferson is a major figure in world, as well as in US history. He was one of the most important philosophers of the latter part of theAge of Enlightenment and probably the most effective in terms of putting Enlightenment principles into actual practice.

141 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:50:57am

re: #107 Olsonist

When I lived in Knoxville I had a fundie Biology teacher who wouldn’t teach evolution. My brother and I led a school strike. The principle was quite proud of us.

Good for you!

142 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:51:47am

re: #137 Oh no…Sand People!

If the ‘religious fanatics’ are willing to omit history to further their agenda, you CANNOT, I REPEAT, you CANNOT tell me that this same tactic has and was not used on the actual Bible itself in order to keep the power and control the message.

This is not a new concept.

i can tell you that it has not. there. i did it.

143 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:52:17am

We need minimum education standards for text books in this country. Enough of this revisionist bull shit.

144 Olsonist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:53:50am

re: #131 Lidane

No HST needed, or wanted. When Nixon was around we had an active independent press whereas we now have a stenography pool.

145 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:53:55am

At heart these are luddite loyalist / Royalists who want to go back to pre-Jeffersonian times and the Virginia charter:

JAMES, by the Grace of God, King of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc. WHEREAS our loving and well-disposed Subjects, Sir Thomas Gates, and Sir George Somers, Knights, Richard Hackluit, Clerk, Prebendary of Westminster, and Edward-Maria Wingfield, Thomas Hanham, and Raleigh Gilbert, Esquires William Parker, and George Popham, Gentlemen, and divers others of our loving Subjects, have been humble Suitors unto us, that We would vouchsafe unto them our License, to make Habitation, Plantation, and to deduce a colony of sundry of our people into that part of America commonly called VIRGINIA, and other parts and Territories in America, either appertaining unto us, or which are not now actually possessed by any Christian Prince or People, situate, lies, and being all along the Sea Coasts, between four and thirty Degrees of Northerly Latitude from the Equinoctial Line, and five and forty Degrees of the same Latitude, and in the main Land between the same four and thirty and five and forty Degrees, and the Islands thereunto adjacent, or within one hundred Miles of the Coast thereof;

You know, the Religious approval of the divine right of Kings Tyrants and all that.

147 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:54:17am

re: #136 Aceofwhat?

misplaced, your wrath is. it’s quickly becoming another lodestone around our neck, regardless of one’s actual perspective on the topic. self-defeating principles are their own derision…

I say that as someone who is still registered as a Republican. Is my wrath still misplaced?

148 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:54:25am

And unfortunately, this kind of dropping of important historical figures and historical events is not just relegated to conflicts between fostering religious views versus secular views. There are school officials who see certain aspects of American history as unnecessary and not productive to our school aged youth.

149 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:54:45am

re: #146 Charles

God Bless Texas and the Texas Board of Education!! %P% Conservative American News

ARRRGGGHHH!!!!!

150 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:54:47am

re: #140 Shiplord Kirel

Jefferson is a major figure in world, as well as in US history. He was one of the most important philosophers of the latter part of theAge of Enlightenment and probably the most effective in terms of putting Enlightenment principles into actual practice.

Fundies are trying to roll back the clock on the whole “Age of Enlightenment”. Highly overrated, dontcha know?

151 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:55:00am

re: #109 Aceofwhat?

they’re blogging about the live bloggers?/

Yes.

152 Firstinla  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:55:11am

These BOE decisions are little different than those of the mullahs in Islamic countries. The fanatical religious conservations in the U.S. want to enact the same kind of Sharia laws that bring oppression to those they deem inferior. These are truly creepy idiots who insist on mandatory ignorance for all.

153 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:56:04am

re: #149 Varek Raith

ARRRGGGHHH!!!

Dammit, now I’m pissed…

Sigh.

154 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:56:26am

re: #147 wrenchwench

I say that as someone who is still registered as a Republican. Is my wrath still misplaced?

mmm…no, but the post doesn’t read as someone speaking to a group which includes themselves. i apologize for not remembering your registration, though.

155 Olsonist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:56:27am

re: #141 The Sanity Inspector

Well, it would have been better for me if I’d spelled principal correctly.

156 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:56:36am

re: #144 Olsonist

No HST needed, or wanted. When Nixon was around we had an active independent press whereas we now have a stenography pool.

It’s precisely because we have a stenography pool that we need a new HST. Matt Taibbi comes close, but he doesn’t have the mescaline fueled rage driving him. He’s good, but not quite deranged enough. Heh.

157 researchok  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:56:43am

re: #133 The Sanity Inspector

Gotta disagree about the national standards part. It’s easier for a determined faction to take over a single federal department, than it is to take over 50 state BOEs, or 13,000 school districts. There will always be some nuttery afoot in some locale somewhere. But better that should happen, than they should seize control of the national levers of power.

You are right, of course.

It’s just that it is frustrating to know that a generation of kids will lose out on the single most precious thing a free society can give them- an unbiased and untainted education. Zealots on the right and left have been given free reign and that has to stop before they hobble yet another generation.

How can we talk about American the very real values of American exceptionalism and at the same time, water down and obfuscate the truth?

We’re beginning to treat education the way the Soviets did.

158 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:56:49am

re: #153 Varek Raith

Dammit, now I’m pissed…

Sigh.

ruh roh…

159 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:56:59am

re: #146 Charles

God Bless Texas and the Texas Board of Education!! %P% Conservative American News

Taking back our country, one state, one text book, twenty million young minds at a time!

Creepy. As. Hell.

160 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:57:21am

re: #151 The Sanity Inspector

Yes.

winner

161 stevemcg  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:57:25am

I was done with the Republican party by 1994. Sure there were some admirable people, like Arlen Spector (No, really, it was 1994!), James Baker and Dick Cheney (No, really, it was 1994!). I even admired H. But they were being taken over by this insidious infection that left the Democratic Party two decades before. So it took a lot of you gys an extra decade and a half, but I guess better late than never. As far as I am concerned the Republican Party is like a mold-ridden house. You just can’t go ack in. But it was the Republicans who embraced these people, relished in their votes to take back the House, then the White House, then the Senate, now they’re just shocked to find out that it’s the invaders calling the shots.

162 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:57:52am

re: #154 Aceofwhat?

mmm…no, but the post doesn’t read as someone speaking to a group which includes themselves. i apologize for not remembering your registration, though.

I don’t talk about it much…..

163 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:58:02am

re: #158 Cato the Elder

ruh roh…

Gonna go find some cute bunnies to hurl lightning bolts at…
That’ll make me feel better!

164 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:58:21am

re: #162 wrenchwench

I don’t talk about it much…

heh. understandable.

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:58:26am

re: #7 Aceofwhat?

CALVIN is now an icon of the right? i have to sign away my free will AND my science education to remain in the party??

Yes, and if you don’t, we will burn you at the stake.

Whose love is given overwell
Shall look on Helen’s face in hell,
While they whose love is thin and wise
May view John Knox in paradise.

(Dorothy Parker. Just occurred to me.)

166 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:58:39am

re: #139 Obdicut

Can you demonstrate that, please?

Demonstrate what? The taking over of a department? It seems straightforward to me. Likeminded people cluster together, attracting other likeminded people, and simply by the climate created deter other-minded people from coming in.

167 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:58:42am

re: #142 Aceofwhat?

i can tell you that it has not. there. i did it.

heh.

I dedicate this to you, Aceof”what”.

///

168 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:58:49am

re: #10 Cato the Elder

They also discarded the word “enlightenment”. Because enlightenment could lead to Buddhism.

That would be funny if it didn’t make me throw up.

169 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:59:27am

re: #165 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, and if you don’t, we will burn you at the stake.

Whose love is given overwell
Shall look on Helen’s face in hell,
While they whose love is thin and wise
May view John Knox in paradise.

(Dorothy Parker. Just occurred to me.)

you’re masterful, as usual…

170 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 9:59:28am

This is one of the big reason why I have been registered as unaffiliated for so many years. Even though I lean to many conservative principles, there is a infection on the right and it’s called fundamentalism.

171 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:00:08am

It’s getting even worse. See the next post.

172 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:00:09am

re: #146 Charles

Is that ‘Dueling Banjos’ playing in the background there?
///

173 The Curmudgeon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:00:41am

re: #161 stevemcg

I was done with the Republican party by 1994. Sure there were some admirable people, like Arlen Spector (No, really, it was 1994!), James Baker and Dick Cheney (No, really, it was 1994!). I even admired H. But they were being taken over by this insidious infection that left the Democratic Party two decades before.

Thanks to Nixon’s “Southern Strategy,” the ghost of William Jennings Bryan lives on, in the GOP.

174 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:00:43am

re: #145 Thanos

At heart these are luddite loyalist / Royalists who want to go back to pre-Jeffersonian times and the Virginia charter:

You know, the Religious approval of the divine right of Kings Tyrants and all that.

I regret that I only have one upding to give for that. As I pointed out a while back, the John Birch Society in particular is based on a conspiracist worldview that is profoundly reactionary in character.
In their very hard to get 60s era book, The Hidden Hand, the current monetary and similar conspiracies go all the way back to the 18th century and the role of freemasons, Jews, and the “Illuminati” in undermining the established order of that time. This, in turn, is part of an even older conspiracy whose purpose is to overthrow Christianity.

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:00:55am

re: #41 EmmmieG

Next Juneteenth, maybe the Texas school system could be liberated.

By the U.S. Cavalry?

176 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:01:09am

re: #166 The Sanity Inspector

You asserted that one thing is easier than the other. Can you demonstrate this, or is it just theoretical?

Personally, I think it’s far easier to cause change by incremental, low-level effort. Note, for example, that even though the Bush administration tried to corrupt and thwart a lot of the science coming out of NASA, that NASA was able to most subvert that.

177 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:01:35am

re: #43 darthstar

At least students will only have to learn the sixteen official presidents of the United States:
-Ulysses S. Grant

-Rutherford B. Hayes

-James A. Garfield

-Chester A. Arthur

-Benjamin Harrison

-William McKinley

-Theodore Roosevelt

-William Howard Taft

-Warren G. Harding

-John Calvin Coolidge

-Herbet Hoover

-Dwight Eisenhower

-Richard Nixon

-Gerald Ford

-Ronald Reagan

-George H.W. Bush

-Geroge W. Bush

These guys don’t like Teddy Roosevelt, and I have a feeling they’re going to turn on Eisenhower soon.

178 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:01:36am

re: #167 Oh no…Sand People!

heh.

I dedicate this to you, Aceof”what”.

///

HA!! Would you believe i’ve never seen that before? That was awesome.

179 Spider Mensch  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:01:54am

and in a related story….all people who have Jefferson nickels in their pockets are being turned back at the Texas borders…..
“damn yankees and thot thar funny money of thar’s..”

180 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:02:23am

re: #178 Aceofwhat?

HA!! Would you believe i’ve never seen that before? That was awesome.

Good ol’Samwell…

181 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:02:34am

The tree of humanity forgets the labour of the silent gardeners who sheltered it from the cold, watered it in time of drought, shielded it against wild animals; but it preserves faithfully the names mercilessly cut into its bark.
Heinrich Heine, 1833

182 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:03:32am

Whoa, unrelated but on the theme of religious right wing craziness:

Last night, Alan Colmes had Janet Porter on his radio program to discuss her recent appearance at the “Convergence 2010” conference where she prayed for God to give Christians total control over the media.
[…]

Colmes then spent several minutes trying to get Porter to answer the simple question of whether she believes that non-Christians should have any power and influence, which she refused to answer before finally saying that yes, that is what she is praying for and then asserting that regardless of what anyone believes, there is a “one true living God.”

For some reason, Porter kept insisting that this was somehow an attack on her right to pray, which Colmes diligently tried to explain was not the issue as nobody was attacking her right to pray or speak as she sees fit, but to no avail.

Eventually, the discussion turned to the May Day prayer rally she is hosting at the Lincoln Memorial and Porter defended her assertions that America is cursed for having elected Barack Obama, that anyone who has ever voted for a pro-choice candidate is cursed, and that anyone who voted for Obama is going to hell.

[Link: www.rightwingwatch.org…]

I’ll see you all in hell, I guess!

183 SteveMcG  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:04:34am

re: #62 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So lets just have a quick run down of people not fit to be examples of great Americans now.

Teddy Rosevelt
Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Jefferson

Who else do we throw aside? Fucking bastards.

Good thing Mt. Rushmore isn’t in Texas. They’d pull a Taliban and blow off their heads.

184 Slap  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:04:52am

re: #182 iceweasel

I have my seats reserved. If I get there first, shall I order you a mint julep?

185 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:04:58am

re: #182 iceweasel

Whoa, unrelated but on the theme of religious right wing craziness:

[Link: www.rightwingwatch.org…]

I’ll see you all in hell, I guess!

Well, I’m pro choice and voted for McCain. Going to hell anyway, I suppose. At least we’ll get badass horns and wings!

186 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:05:14am

re: #182 iceweasel

In other words, porter said “God damned America”?

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:05:16am

re: #88 darthstar

That’s how I taught when I was a teacher. When I had religious fundie kids refusing to read Othello or Huck Finn on religious grounds, I assigned them Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale as an alternate. Since I could safely assume none of their parents had read it, I was never questioned about why I chose that text for them.

How can you refuse to read Othello on religious grounds?

188 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:05:46am

re: #176 Obdicut

You asserted that one thing is easier than the other. Can you demonstrate this, or is it just theoretical?

Personally, I think it’s far easier to cause change by incremental, low-level effort. Note, for example, that even though the Bush administration tried to corrupt and thwart a lot of the science coming out of NASA, that NASA was able to most subvert that.

OK, fair enough.

189 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:06:25am

re: #184 Slap

I have my seats reserved. If I get there first, shall I order you a mint julep?

Yes please. Something nice and cooling.:)
Save me a spot on your left!

190 wee fury  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:06:38am

Narrow minded self-righteous people make me angry. Especially so, when they also think that they are intelligent.

191 Girth  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:06:47am

If students were to really learn about Thomas Jefferson, they’d find out that the thing that he was most proud of, besides Monticello, was the Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom. And we certainly can’t have that, can we wingnuts?

[Link: religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu…]

Money quote:


Be it therefore enacted by the General Assembly, That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in nowise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.
192 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:06:55am

re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist

Black people are in it.

Seriously, I think Othello is a Muslim. Or it just doesn’t make a big deal about religion.

193 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:07:00am

re: #182 iceweasel

Whoa, unrelated but on the theme of religious right wing craziness:

[Link: www.rightwingwatch.org…]

I’ll see you all in hell, I guess!

seeeriously. apparently i totally read John 3:16 the wrong way//

194 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:07:31am

Lunch.

195 abbyadams  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:08:05am

Soooo…who exactly wrote the Declaration, then, in this alternative universe? Or do we not care about that document any more?

196 Slap  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:08:56am

re: #189 iceweasel

That one’s for the missus. But there’s another couple of empties next to her. We’re considering renting a luxury box because of all the entertaining we’re going to have to do.

197 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:09:03am

re: #195 abbyadams

Sooo…who exactly wrote the Declaration, then, in this alternative universe? Or do we not care about that document any more?

God wrote it. And if you say otherwise, you’re some kind of commie.

198 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:09:28am

re: #195 abbyadams

Sooo…who exactly wrote the Declaration, then, in this alternative universe? Or do we not care about that document any more?

well…it was predestined, so the author is quite unimportant//

(at least i think that’s sarcasm…)

199 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:10:03am

re: #197 iceweasel

God wrote it. And if you say otherwise, you’re some kind of commie.

can you recommend a comfy set of commie boots//

200 Slap  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:10:31am

re: #191 Girth

IMO, one of the single most maginificently-constructed documents in the history of humanity.

201 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:10:51am

re: #196 Slap

That one’s for the missus. But there’s another couple of empties next to her. We’re considering renting a luxury box because of all the entertaining we’re going to have to do.

heh. A luxury box in hell. nice!

I believe they’re building a new circle for Obama voters and pro-choice voters.

Tenth Circle Added To Rapidly Growing Hell

202 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:11:09am

re: #146 Charles

This really is no coincidence. The writings of Jefferson are a direct assault on the notions of “spiritual aristocracy” as proposed by Calvin.
They replaced the man who wrote that it was a self evident truth that all men are created equal, with a man who wrote that only an elect few are loved by God enough to go to heaven, no matter how good they are or what they do.

You are doing a great service by drawing attention to this. One can only hope that as non crazy Americans pause and reflect that Thomas Jefferson was replaced by a French theologian - whose beliefs formed the core of Puritanism - as a more important part of American history. People can reflect that these cretins really are saying that they are morally and spiritually better - inherently so - and were always destined to be more loved by God. People can then ask if such an idea sounds American at all.

We can hope that the Average American on wondering why one would do such a crazy thing to education, will look into the agenda of these cretins. One can only hope that national outrage makes a difference. I think it might as well. If science can defeat these fools in the public forum, then the man who wrote that all men are created equal can win.

I am not one for mincing words. The Religious Right is making an assault on truth itself. For sometime, they have been doing their level best to replace facts with their beliefs and extinguish anything that might belie their fevered delusions of reality.

203 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:11:15am

re: #43 darthstar

They’ll have to drop Teddy. He was a PROG-ressive.

I’m waiting for the orders to start demolish faces off of Mt Rushmore. Or at least some cosmetic surgery to convert them to other presidents.

204 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:11:40am

re: #192 Obdicut

Black people are in it.

Seriously, I think Othello is a Muslim. Or it just doesn’t make a big deal about religion.

Othello is a former Muslim who has embraced Christianity.

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:11:50am

re: #192 Obdicut

Black people are in it.

Seriously, I think Othello is a Muslim. Or it just doesn’t make a big deal about religion.

Uhhhhh. Huuuh. Whhhaaaa?

206 Donna Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:12:29am

re: #146 Charles

God Bless Texas and the Texas Board of Education!! %P% Conservative American News

Thats depressing, it really is. *Sigh*

207 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:12:29am

re: #195 abbyadams

Sooo…who exactly wrote the Declaration, then, in this alternative universe? Or do we not care about that document any more?

Only when yelling that it says ‘Creator’, which means we’re a Christian nation.

The rest of the document is irrelevent.

/

208 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:12:57am

re: #204 Alouette

I haven’t read it in a long time. Sorry, forgot. You’d think they’d love it then— except, of course, he’d embraced Catholicism, so maybe that’s it.

Apologies for the flub.

209 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:13:03am

Old old joke - from the 17th century.

Why don’t Calvinists have sex standing up?

Because it might lead to dancing!

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:13:11am

re: #204 Alouette

Othello is a former Muslim who has embraced Christianity.

You’d think they’d like that.

211 iceweasel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:13:38am

re: #202 LudwigVanQuixote

Excellent post even by your always excellent standards, Ludwig. Favourited. May I suggest reposting it on the top thread? Purely so I have the joy of dinging it again. :)

Seriously, people need to see it.

212 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:16:08am

re: #204 Alouette

Othello is a former Muslim who has embraced Christianity.

And Iago spews false piety when it suits him.

213 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:20:59am

re: #211 iceweasel

Thank you and done.

214 Slap  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:22:44am

re: #201 iceweasel

We’ve been trying to get in ahead of the influx of all the new candidates. I believe we received our notice of the change when we catered our dear friend’s Planned Parenthood fundraiser a couple years back, so we are trying to make an efffective plan.

I knew we were in trouble years back, thanks to karen hughes. The missus and above-mentioned dear friend attended the March for Women’s Lives; during CNN’s coverage, the lovely and broadminded hughes indicated that the attendees were no better than the terrorists we were fighting. So, being married to a terrorist, I figured it was a good time to start stocking up for the transition./

215 Batman  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:23:07am

To libertarians, Jefferson was the only founding father in existence. To social conservatives, he didn’t even exist.

I don’t think it’s quite as important for kids to learn that these people existed than for them to learn how they interacted. It’s okay to know that the founding fathers disagreed on nearly everything. Pointing to one guy in history who agrees with your point doesn’t mean it’s right.

If anyone wanted to they could easily find a founding father that agrees with their own viewpoints, even ones who wanted to inject religion into the government, but they’d also have to stumble upon dozens who disagreed wholeheartedly in the process.

216 ryannon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:23:38am

re: #67 Cato the Elder


All Things Must Pass.

Cool Tombs

WHEN Abraham Lincoln was shoveled into the tombs, he forgot the copperheads and the assassin … in the dust, in the cool tombs.

And Ulysses Grant lost all thought of con men and Wall Street, cash and collateral turned ashes … in the dust, in the cool tombs.

Pocahontas’ body, lovely as a poplar, sweet as a red haw in November or a pawpaw in May, did she wonder? does she remember?… in the dust, in the cool tombs?

Take any streetful of people buying clothes and groceries, cheering a hero or throwing confetti and blowing tin horns … tell me if the lovers are losers … tell me if any get more than the lovers … in the dust … in the cool tombs.

- Carl Sandburg.

217 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:26:10am

I wish I could access YouTube from work so I could post a link to the Mr. Show “Founding Fathers” sketch.

218 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:31:09am

re: #217 Mad Al-Jaffee

I wish I could access YouTube from work so I could post a link to the Mr. Show “Founding Fathers” sketch.

I’ll do it. I love that sketch:

Youtube Video
219 The Curmudgeon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:33:27am

You gotta see this thread at the ever-irrational Free Republic. It’s posted by their glorious founder, Jim Robinson: God Bless Texas and the Texas Board of Education!!

220 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:45:03am

re: #219 The Curmudgeon

You gotta see this thread at the ever-irrational Free Republic. It’s posted by their glorious founder, Jim Robinson: God Bless Texas and the Texas Board of Education!!

Not surprising, but appalling nonetheless.

221 elizajane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:47:51am

re: #202 LudwigVanQuixote

System wouldn’t let me upding this but I wanted to register a polite round of applause.
Now can you explain what on earth Thomas Aquinas is doing in there? I thought this must be a joke, but I went and read the whole “Blogging the Social Studies Debate” and it isn’t.
I am printing out the recent page of that blog and intend to discuss it with my children, so they understand just how the history they are taught in school is constructed.
It makes me happy to be in art history, where nobody really cares that much if Leonardo gets more credit than Raphael for the Renaissance….

222 Randy W. Weeks  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:48:48am

Of course they want nothing to do with Jefferson:

“I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” This sentence is taken from a September 23, 1800, letter by Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush wherein he defends the constitutional refusal to recognize a state religion.

There are not many times that I’m embarrassed to be a Texan, but this is one of them.

223 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:12:56pm

re: #222 LoneStarSpur

There are not many times that I’m embarrassed to be a Texan, but this is one of them.

They’re making the rest of us look bad, and that’s damned infuriating. =P

224 martinsmithy  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:57:34pm

re: #110 iceweasel
Iceweasel, you don’t provide any arguments to buttress your “rubbish” claim. I was a political science major, and I don’t remember ever studying Thomas Jefferson in a “political philosophy” class. I do remember studying him in an “American political history” class.

re: #132 Thanos
Thanos, the Declaration of Independence and the colonial constitutions are best studied as documents of American History, not political philosophy. The political philosophy behind the documents (and Jefferson’s work) is primarily that of John Locke, although others such as Montesquieu had some influence too.

To repeat, on the face of it, the decision of the Texas board is not objectionable. But, as Charles has amply demonstrated with mounds of evidence, “the face of it” is not what is involved here. What is involved here is an attempt to rewrite American history to emphasize Christianity and deemphasize the dominant non-Christian foundations of our republic.

225 DodgerFan1988  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:36:25pm

Texas is fastly becoming the Waziristan of the United States.

226 Political Atheist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:05:28pm

Okay I’ll post this in a couple places, but as we oppose the Texas Textbook Massacre- Lets each who cares enough to post here call our local district and beg, plead, insist these changes not hit the schools in (fill in your town). Grass roots folks, take 5 minutes.

Thanks!

227 ...stephen  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:28:25pm

So… Founding Father < Kooky Frenchman who set up in Geneva?

/You’d think they’d focus less on Europe…

228 Petero1818  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:36:51pm

I am curious as to how one has a serious discussion about the First Amendment without an in depth study of Jefferson. Are they going to pretend there is no Bill of Rights?

229 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:12:56pm

re: #228 Petero1818

I am curious as to how one has a serious discussion about the First Amendment without an in depth study of Jefferson. Are they going to pretend there is no Bill of Rights?

Your right to free speech and your right to worship the Christian God comes directly from Jesus. Period. End of story.

230 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:29:58pm

re: #157 researchok

The soviets had better Gymnasts………….

231 [deleted]  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:01:09pm
232 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:12:42pm

re: #231 cosmo

Get off my website, you fanatic moron. And I’ll get rid of your sock puppets too while I’m at it.


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