Texas BOE Member Walks Out As Racists Take Over

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
US News • Fri Mar 12, 2010 at 9:59 am PST • Views: 556

Texas State Board of Education member Mary Helen Berlanga walked out of the meeting today, in protest over the Republican religious fanatics’ attempts to turn sociology into a “whites only” course.

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — A longtime State Board of Education member accused her colleagues of “whitewashing” curriculum standards Thursday and walked out of the panel’s meeting in frustration amid heated debates about race and the inclusion of Hispanics in lesson plans.

The board had rejected an effort to include the names of two Hispanic Medal of Honor recipients and one black recipient in lessons for a world history class, but agreed to revisit the amendment for an American history class. It also approved an amendment that deletes a requirement that sociology students “explain how institutional racism is evident in American society.”

“I mean we’ve already been whitewashing all of social studies up to this point and now we’re doing it in sociology?” Democratic board member Mary Helen Berlanga said after Republican Barbara Cargill’s amendment was proposed. “You’ve got to leave some integrity in this.”

The amendment was adopted on a 10-5 party line vote.

Decisions by the board — long led by social conservatives who have advocated ideas such as teaching more about the weaknesses of evolutionary theory — affects textbook content nationwide because Texas is one of publishers’ biggest clients.

Berlanga, who has served on the board since 1982, walked out of the meeting after reviewing upcoming amendments involving the inclusion of Hispanic names in the standards.

“I’ve had it, this is it,” she said. “I’m leaving. We can just pretend this is a white America and Hispanics don’t exist.”

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321 comments

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1 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:01:13am

Good for her

2 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:01:25am

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

3 SteveMcG  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:02:25am

How long is it until whites are a minority in TX? Don't they have the slightest concern that the tide can turn against them?

4 researchok  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:02:30am

Good on her. She held up a mirror to her opponents and the reflection was lipstick on a pig

5 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:03:19am

Pardon my language.
:/

6 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:04:16am

I really, really thought that the GOP was going to get a much-needed shot in the arm by the inclusion of Hispanics when G.W. Bush was elected. I didn't like him, but I thought, "oh well, at least he'll steer the party away from that nativist thing"

And yet here we are.

7 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:05:51am

And a lot of people in the past, "Gosh Charles..why do you focus on this Creationism in Science class stuff! It's one of the LEAST important things! Gosh...Geesh...huhuh."

Charles is a bit ahead of the curve if you all haven't noticed by now.

8 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:06:27am

re: #5 Varek Raith

Pardon my language.
:/

It's ok, Rahm.
/

9 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:06:36am

The good news about this is it might be enough to get Perry defeated in November.

10 SteveMcG  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:06:50am

re: #6 Obdicut

I really, really thought that the GOP was going to get a much-needed shot in the arm by the inclusion of Hispanics when G.W. Bush was elected. I didn't like him, but I thought, "oh well, at least he'll steer the party away from that nativist thing"

And yet here we are.

REALLY? You bought into that? Wanna buy a bridge? You don't have to move it, you just get to keep the tolls.

11 researchok  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:06:59am

re: #6 Obdicut

I really, really thought that the GOP was going to get a much-needed shot in the arm by the inclusion of Hispanics when G.W. Bush was elected. I didn't like him, but I thought, "oh well, at least he'll steer the party away from that nativist thing"

And yet here we are.

Good point.

W was elected with a lot of Hispanic support.

12 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:07:19am

re: #6 Obdicut

I really, really thought that the GOP was going to get a much-needed shot in the arm by the inclusion of Hispanics when G.W. Bush was elected. I didn't like him, but I thought, "oh well, at least he'll steer the party away from that nativist thing"

And yet here we are.

Considering the GOPs response to them since they got onboard was "Sit down and shut up", I imagine we'll be seeing a lot more of this in the future. They're fucking themselves in the long run, and given their agenda and beliefs, thats a good thing.

13 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:07:40am

re: #8 Taqyia2Me

It's ok, Rahm.
/

Heh, I cuss like a sailor offline. It's difficult to hold it at bay online sometimes.
:)

14 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:08:08am

re: #9 darthstar

The good news about this is it might be enough to get Perry defeated in November.

I wish. Oh, how I wish.

15 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:08:43am

I hope the publisher refuses Texas' business, or that a competing publisher comes up to service the rest of the country.

16 SteveMcG  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:08:45am

re: #11 researchok

Don't forget the Spreme Court voting bloc. And the Ralph Nader supporters. And the "Jews for Buchanon" lobby.

17 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:09:40am

This is the kind of logic we can expect from students of Texas schools in the future:

“You talk about discrimination, there are a lot of stories and it hurts,” Miller said. “But we keep going and we learn tolerance. And the tolerance, in my opinion, in all of this discussion, is you don’t leave anybody out … we either list them all or put an asterisk.”

What the fuck is she saying?

18 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:09:44am

Of course whenever I hear about someone telling off a group of people and leaving, I always think of the scene from Half Baked.

(pointing to each person there) "Fuck you. Fuck you. You're cool. Fuck you."

19 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:10:11am

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Of course whenever I hear about someone telling off a group of people and leaving, I always think of the scene from Half Baked.

(pointing to each person there) "Fuck you. Fuck you. You're cool. Fuck you."

That is so me.

20 MandyManners  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:10:31am
walked out of the meeting

APPLAUSE!

21 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:10:58am

*Pulls out spotlight with 'SpaceJesus' insignia*

*shines light*

This thread is calling his name...

22 abbyadams  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:10:58am

re: #17 Obdicut

Must have gone to the Sarah Palin School of Elocution.

23 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:11:14am

re: #17 Obdicut

This is the kind of logic we can expect from students of Texas schools in the future:

What the fuck is she saying?

"sound and fury, signifying nothing" - Some English guy, or something

24 SteveMcG  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:11:16am

re: #20 MandyManners

Mandy, they need your avatar next door.

25 KingKenrod  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:11:18am

re: #15 darthstar

I hope the publisher refuses Texas' business, or that a competing publisher comes up to service the rest of the country.

Other states should band together and refuse to buy any "Texas approved" book.

26 MandyManners  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:11:50am

The Yellow Rose of Texas sure has quite a few pricks lately.

27 researchok  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:12:07am

re: #16 SteveMcG

Bush support from the Hispanic community was real, widespread and well documented unlike the unimportant and marginal lexamples you gave. He also had widespread support from the Black community as well. He was re elected as Governor with big numbers from those voting blocs.

Don't blame him for the GOP faux pas.

Don't forget the Spreme Court voting bloc. And the Ralph Nader supporters. And the "Jews for Buchanon" lobby.

28 wee fury  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:12:24am

re: #17 Obdicut

This is the kind of logic we can expect from students of Texas schools in the future:

What the fuck is she saying?

Think she called me an asterisk.

29 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:12:34am

Where in Texas is this happening? Just Austin?

The board agreed to strengthen nods to Christianity by adding references to “laws of nature and nature’s God” to a section in U.S. history that requires students to explain major political ideas.

They also agreed to strike the word “democratic” in references to the form of U.S. government, opting instead to call it a “constitutional republic.”

The board added a reference to the Second Amendment right to bear arms in a section about citizenship in a U.S. government class and agreed to require economics students to “analyze the decline of the U.S. dollar including abandonment of the gold standard.”

Wow. Just WOW.

30 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:12:38am

The source, KOHM radio, is Texas Tech's public radio station. It has a really good classical format, some local and some from NPR.

31 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:12:42am

re: #15 darthstar

I hope the publisher refuses Texas' business, or that a competing publisher comes up to service the rest of the country.

Take their order, then just ship them loads of bibles.

"We didn't think you would notice the difference."

32 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:14:15am

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Good for her

Amen!

33 SteveMcG  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:14:25am

re: #27 researchok

I think you're comparing his local TX support to the Presidential vote (which I am going by), which he lost quite handily.

34 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:14:48am
An approved amendment introduced by former board chairman Don McLeroy, one of the board’s most prominent social conservatives, deleted a reference to hip-hop as an example of a significant cultural movement; McLeroy said hip-hop music is nihilistic and replaced it with country music.

Amazing

35 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:15:36am

re: #34 Shiplord Kirel

Amazing

PFFFTTT...He's got that ass backwards!

36 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:15:54am

re: #26 MandyManners

The Yellow Rose of Texas sure has quite a few pricks lately.


And they're all in office, obviously!

37 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:15:55am

Yep...they also struck the dangerous "d" word from their texts:
They also agreed to strike the word “democratic” in references to the form of U.S. government, opting instead to call it a “constitutional republic.”

38 simoom  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:16:54am

Nightline put up a segment on the TX SBOE's work, yesterday, with a Focus on creationist board member Don McLeroy.

I don't think I can embed the video directly, so here's a link to the 6 minute segment:
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

Some excerpts (my quick transcribing):

Harris: You have been quoted at times saying the amount of power you have boggles your mind.

McLeroy: Well, I did say that, I wish I hadn't of said that, but I did say that because it is pretty influential.

Harris: Right now the board is working on the Social Studies guidelines, and here are some examples of things the conservative block has pushed through:
* They've require that textbooks mention pillars of the conservative movement like the Moral Majority, the National Rifle Association and the Contract with America, with no liberal counterbalance.
* They've insisted that the words of Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederacy during the Civil War, be considered alongside those of Abraham Lincoln
* And they have inserted language insisting that actions of the infamous anti-communist senator Joseph McCarthy were justified.

McLeroy at one point scrawled a note saying recent scholarship showed that McCarthy had been vindicated.

It goes on like that with all kinds of bad craziness on religion, civil right, women's suffrage, etc.

39 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:17:22am

Stalkers now taking over the BBC thread about my interview -- the exact same raving freaks who showed up at Dangerous Minds, including "buzzsawmonkey" (posting as "CaptainAmerica"):

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

40 researchok  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:17:31am

re: #33 SteveMcG

I think you're comparing his local TX support to the Presidential vote (which I am going by), which he lost quite handily.

Well, that was the discussion and in fact, he did garner a lot of Hispanic votes in the general election. Certainly that was the case with the Texas Hispanic voters who knew him best.

41 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:17:37am

re: #37 darthstar

Yep...they also struck the dangerous "d" word from their texts:
They also agreed to strike the word “democratic” in references to the form of U.S. government, opting instead to call it a “constitutional republic.”

My headache just got worse... And I WAS feeling better. *SIGH*

42 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:17:54am

re: #29 marjoriemoon

Where in Texas is this happening? Just Austin?

Wow. Just WOW.

I'll bet even the Kansas school boards are saying, "Fuck, that's extreme!"

43 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:18:12am

Current conversation in the backrooms of the meeting, "Now if we can just get the kids off teh intertubes or just get control of them altogether..."

/I think...?

44 Millicent Islam  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:18:17am

re: #37 darthstar

Yep...they also struck the dangerous "d" word from their texts:
They also agreed to strike the word “democratic” in references to the form of U.S. government, opting instead to call it a “constitutional republic.”

Well, we've had the unending references to the "Democrat Party" (sic) and a failed push to force the Democratic Party to rename itself the "Socialist Democrat Party"-- the next best thing is to start removing the word 'democratic'.

Fine. I shall not abandon my push to rename the GOP "Your Crazy Racist Uncle".

45 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:18:18am

Damn, where's SpaceJesus when ya need him?

46 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:18:37am

If I see a Texas public school listed on a resume in the future I am sure going to have to question that applicant's knowledge in full depth to make sure they can handle a tech job.

(since I hire in technical fields I have series of technical questions I go through that get progressively harder if you answer the initial ones successfully. Too many applicants nowadays will put down that they are are proficient with tech x, y, or z because one time they happened to see a server that had that app or tech on it... )

47 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:19:29am

This really is no coincidence that there would be an attempt to remove Jefferson and replace him with Calvin.

The writings of Jefferson are a direct assault on the notions of "spiritual aristocracy" as proposed by Calvin. They replaced the man who wrote that it was a self evident truth that all men are created equal, with a man who wrote that only an elect few are loved by God enough to go to heaven, no matter how good they are or what they do.

One can only hope that non crazy Americans pause and reflect that Thomas Jefferson was replaced by a French theologian - whose beliefs formed the core of Puritanism - as a more important part of American history. People can reflect that these cretins really are saying that they are morally and spiritually better - inherently so - and were always destined to be more loved by God. People can then ask if such an idea sounds American at all.

We can hope that the average American on wondering why one would do such a crazy thing to education, will look into the agenda of these cretins. One can only hope that national outrage makes a difference. I think it might as well. If science can defeat these fools in the public forum, then the man who wrote that all men are created equal can win.

I am not one for mincing words. The Religious Right is making an assault on truth itself. They honestly believe as a part of their faith, that they know better than you and are better than you inherently, because they are on Gods list and you aren't. For sometime, they have been doing their level best to replace facts with their beliefs and extinguish anything that might belie their fevered delusions of reality.

48 MandyManners  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:19:58am

re: #36 Dragon_Lady

And they're all in office, obviously!

Someone's putting them there.

49 Girth  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:20:59am

re: #37 darthstar

Yep...they also struck the dangerous "d" word from their texts:
They also agreed to strike the word “democratic” in references to the form of U.S. government, opting instead to call it a “constitutional republic.”

These stupid fuckers don't want their children exposed to homonyms. Might turn them teh ghey.

50 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:21:04am

re: #46 Thanos

If I see a Texas public school listed on a resume in the future I am sure going to have to question that applicant's knowledge in full depth to make sure they can handle a tech job.

(since I hire in technical fields I have series of technical questions I go through that get progressively harder if you answer the initial ones successfully. Too many applicants nowadays will put down that they are are proficient with tech x, y, or z because one time they happened to see a server that had that app or tech on it... )

You're telling me...I've been interviewing and filtering candidates for three weeks now. I had one guy, seriously, put Microsoft Word down as a skill. Word! We've got an app that analyzes 18 different programming languages and runs on several platforms...Knowing how to use Word isn't exactly going to make you stand out.

51 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:21:20am

re: #45 Varek Raith

Damn, where's SpaceJesus when ya need him?

No one expects the SpaceJesus. His chief weapon is suprise!

52 SteveMcG  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:21:47am

re: #50 darthstar

Well, it might be a skill if it's Word 2007!

53 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:21:47am

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No one expects the SpaceJesus. His chief weapon is suprise!

And the comfy chair!

54 sffilk  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:22:41am

re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Considering the GOPs response to them since they got onboard was "Sit down and shut up", I imagine we'll be seeing a lot more of this in the future. They're fucking themselves in the long run, and given their agenda and beliefs, thats a good thing.

I hope you're correct.

55 abbyadams  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:22:57am

re: #37 darthstar

That is just scary. I mean like, 1984 Orwellian scary.

56 sffilk  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:23:04am

re: #15 darthstar

I hope the publisher refuses Texas' business, or that a competing publisher comes up to service the rest of the country.

I honestly think that won't happen, to be honest.

57 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:23:12am

re: #42 darthstar

I'll bet even the Kansas school boards are saying, "Fuck, that's extreme!"

Ok, so are there any sane people left in Austin to protest against this crap?

I can understand Berlanga's frustration in walking out. She's been dealing with this for quite some time, but I do hope she comes back. Even if her voice is drowned out, they need her voice. WE need her voice.

58 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:23:14am

On the subject of revisionism, Ben GLeck, er, I mean Glen Beck revisits McCarthy:

"It was Republican Sen. Joe McCarthy, who shined the spotlight on the Communist Party again," Beck said rhapsodically. "McCarthy later led a Senate committee investigation into inefficiencies in the government. Critics accused him of falsely identifying Communists, and smearing their names." Those pesky critics! Beck then brought up, for some reason, the Cold War "domino theory," that if one nation went Communist, so would its neighbors. "Kind of feels like that now, doesn't it?" he asked.

59 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:23:18am

re: #48 MandyManners

Someone's putting them there.

And to think I considered moving there at one time... I liked the idea of openly carrying my gun. Now I'm afraid if I did move there I might just shoot someone. Not going to happen now...
I was a conservative...till now. Lord knows what I am now...I'm so confused...

60 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:23:31am

re: #52 SteveMcG

Well, it might be a skill if it's Word 2007!

I had another guy list Notepad++. He also happened to lie about his previous company (didn't even exist)...it was fun when the recruiter tried to argue that I should interview him...I shut her up pretty quick.

61 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:23:45am

re: #50 darthstar

You're telling me...I've been interviewing and filtering candidates for three weeks now. I had one guy, seriously, put Microsoft Word down as a skill. Word! We've got an app that analyzes 18 different programming languages and runs on several platforms...Knowing how to use Word isn't exactly going to make you stand out.

One of the people on the team short list to cut actually has "Proficient with Powerpoint" as her leading job skill. Which explains why no one trusts her with more serious work.

62 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:23:46am

re: #47 LudwigVanQuixote

I have but one upding to give...not counting the other one on the last thread...that would make it two..heh.

63 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:24:04am

re: #57 marjoriemoon

All the sane people in Austin are at a music festival this weekend.

64 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:25:02am

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

And the comfy chair!

And about this time, I wish I had a sockpuppet named Cardinal Fang.

65 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:25:06am

re: #62 Oh no...Sand People!

I have but one upding to give...not counting the other one on the last thread...that would make it two..heh.

I was asked to repost that.. And thank you very much.

66 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:25:33am

re: #59 Dragon_Lady

We're not all insane here in Texas. Many of us are rightly outraged over this crap. It's infuriating.

67 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:25:45am

Note to self:

1. Go to Texas.
2. Start a church.
3. Cash the checks.

Anyone want in? It's the first 100% fool proof get rich quick scheme I have thought of to this point...and I have thought up some doozies in the past.

68 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:26:11am

re: #66 Lidane

We're not all insane here in Texas. Many of us are rightly outraged over this crap. It's infuriating.

You just made me feel better. Thank you!

69 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:26:18am

re: #67 Oh no...Sand People!

Note to self:

1. Go to Texas.
2. Start a church.
3. Cash the checks.

Anyone want in? It's the first 100% fool proof get rich quick scheme I have thought of to this point...and I have thought up some doozies in the past.

Is that you, L Ron Hubbard??

70 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:26:21am

re: #63 darthstar

All the sane people in Austin are at a music festival this weekend.

And for the next week and a half-- SXSW goes until March 21st. :)

71 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:26:25am

re: #47 LudwigVanQuixote

I have to give you an up ding on that. Fair is fair.

72 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:26:27am

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Would the avatar be a picture of Gilliam in his snazzy red uniform?

73 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:26:46am

re: #71 Walter L. Newton

I have to give you an up ding on that. Fair is fair.

yeah, me too. it stung a little/

74 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:26:56am

re: #67 Oh no...Sand People!

Note to self:

1. Go to Texas.
2. Start a church.
3. Cash the checks.

Anyone want in? It's the first 100% fool proof get rich quick scheme I have thought of to this point...and I have thought up some doozies in the past.

Tempting.

75 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:26:56am

re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

One of the people on the team short list to cut actually has "Proficient with Powerpoint" as her leading job skill. Which explains why no one trusts her with more serious work.

In these times of budget cuts and downsizing, every office needs their Powerpoint Monkey. Whiz, bang, zoom!!!

76 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:27:29am

At least the country creationist cretin McLeroy has been voted out of office.
Unfortunately, he can still do an awful lot of damage before his current term expires on New Years day.

77 Idle Drifter  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:27:42am

There are problems within the educational system yet this is pouring gasoline on the fire.

78 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:28:05am

re: #77 Idle Drifter

There are problems within the educational system yet this is pouring gasoline on the fire.

Anti-matter, actually.

79 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:28:11am

re: #50 darthstar

You're telling me...I've been interviewing and filtering candidates for three weeks now. I had one guy, seriously, put Microsoft Word down as a skill. Word! We've got an app that analyzes 18 different programming languages and runs on several platforms...Knowing how to use Word isn't exactly going to make you stand out.

The questions I ask tend to focus on understanding the concepts behind the technologies usually, e.g.
can you explain why the ability to finely slice time is important for transmitting and encoding data?
Please give me an example of a race condition on a server...
Please give an example of a TDM circuit, a DS3 circuit, and a DWDM circuit..
What moves faster - Electricity through a copper cable or light through a fiber optic cable?
etc etc. etc.

80 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:28:23am

re: #72 oaktree

Would the avatar be a picture of Gilliam in his snazzy red uniform?

I was thinking of this one.

81 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:28:34am

re: #69 Aceofwhat?

Is that you, L Ron Hubbard??

Not quite, my book is called, Diarrehenetics: How paying me money clears up your bowels.
/

82 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:29:12am

re: #76 Shiplord Kirel

At least the country creationist cretin McLeroy has been voted out of office.
Unfortunately, he can still do an awful lot of damage before his current term expires on New Years day.

That's a long walk for a lame duck.

83 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:29:22am

re: #37 darthstar

Yep...they also struck the dangerous "d" word from their texts:
They also agreed to strike the word “democratic” in references to the form of U.S. government, opting instead to call it a “constitutional republic.”

That is the double plus good of stating true think. Democratic is a purged word. It is double plus bad.

84 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:29:44am

re: #81 Oh no...Sand People!

Not quite, my book is called, Diarrehenetics: How paying me money clears up your bowels.
/

invite me to your yacht and let me wear a snazzy uniform and i'm there..

85 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:29:46am

re: #66 Lidane

We're not all insane here in Texas. Many of us are rightly outraged over this crap. It's infuriating.

Is it just happening in Austin?

86 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:30:37am

re: #84 Aceofwhat?

invite me to your yacht and let me wear a snazzy uniform and i'm there..

Are snazzy, evil uniforms acceptable???

87 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:30:39am

re: #83 LudwigVanQuixote

Or double ungood. The hope is no longer with the proles...they want this stuff.

88 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:30:40am

re: #66 Lidane

We're not all insane here in Texas. Many of us are rightly outraged over this crap. It's infuriating.

Did I mention I really like your style? You have my sympathy. It is very painful for an educated and basically sane person to see her world slip into madness.

Take back your state!

89 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:30:43am

re: #83 LudwigVanQuixote

That is the double plus good of stating true think. Democratic is a purged word. It is double plus bad.

"double plus ungood" is one of my favorite phrases from 1984

90 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:31:14am

Texans: Allowing these cretinous creationists to control your curricula is a big, long-term mistake.

91 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:31:23am

re: #75 Jeff In Ohio

In these times of budget cuts and downsizing, every office needs their Powerpoint Monkey. Whiz, bang, zoom!!!

"OK, We need someone who can stay late and over the weekend who can scan 600 servers, can do root cause analysis on the findings and help the engineering team resolve the issues? Who do we have available?"
"Kragar and the Power Point girl"
"..."
"I'll call Kragar and let him know."

92 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:32:08am

re: #89 darthstar

"double plus ungood" is one of my favorite phrases from 1984

Goldstien!

Ungood has too many syllables and will incite the proles!

93 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:32:59am

re: #90 Thanos

Texans: Allowing these cretinous creationists to control your curricula is a big, long-term mistake.

Some of us having been saying this for ages, but being a liberal and/or a Democrat in this state is like being a Bears fan in Green Bay. Not pretty.

94 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:33:02am

re: #50 darthstar

You're telling me...I've been interviewing and filtering candidates for three weeks now. I had one guy, seriously, put Microsoft Word down as a skill. Word! We've got an app that analyzes 18 different programming languages and runs on several platforms...Knowing how to use Word isn't exactly going to make you stand out.

You know, I just turned down a job offer because the District Manager has the personality of a Sherman Tank and the subtly of a Howitzer. I have lots and lots of experience in Excel, Word, Publisher and lots of other programs as well as customer service, cash register, credit card machine and oodles of other experience as well as being a really fast learner. She rolled her eyes and say in a very sarcastic tone that if she heard THAT again it would be too soon. I was also informed that if I "Wasn't prepared to bring it, she would fire me in a heartbeat". I won't work for someone like that. EVER! And I would never vote for someone like that either!

95 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:33:55am

re: #67 Oh no...Sand People!

Note to self:

1. Go to Texas.
2. Start a church.
3. Cash the checks.

Anyone want in? It's the first 100% fool proof get rich quick scheme I have thought of to this point...and I have thought up some doozies in the past.

Count me in!

96 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:34:00am

re: #86 Varek Raith

Are snazzy, evil uniforms acceptable???

preferable, imho. snazzy, good uniforms always tend towards the chintzy.

97 MandyManners  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:34:37am

re: #59 Dragon_Lady

And to think I considered moving there at one time... I liked the idea of openly carrying my gun. Now I'm afraid if I did move there I might just shoot someone. Not going to happen now...
I was a conservative...till now. Lord knows what I am now...I'm so confused...

Don't let others define you. I'm conservative but, I'm opposed to this kind of bullshit.

98 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:35:26am

re: #97 MandyManners

Don't let others define you. I'm conservative but, I'm opposed to this kind of bullshit.

Good advice. However, there comes a point where a line must be drawn.

99 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:35:26am

re: #94 Dragon_Lady

You know, I just turned down a job offer because the District Manager has the personality of a Sherman Tank and the subtly of a Howitzer. I have lots and lots of experience in Excel, Word, Publisher and lots of other programs as well as customer service, cash register, credit card machine and oodles of other experience as well as being a really fast learner. She rolled her eyes and say in a very sarcastic tone that if she heard THAT again it would be too soon. I was also informed that if I "Wasn't prepared to bring it, she would fire me in a heartbeat". I won't work for someone like that. EVER! And I would never vote for someone like that either!

Actually, be proud of yourself that you dodged that bullet. You recognized the misery you'd be in for and that's a good thing.

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:35:58am

re: #77 Idle Drifter

There are problems within the educational system yet this is pouring gasoline on the fire.

I don't think the problem with the education system was ever that they were mentioning too many Hispanic Medal of Honor awardees.

101 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:36:14am

re: #80 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perfect. I would have chosen a similar expression if possible. :)

102 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:37:12am

re: #94 Dragon_Lady

"prepared to bring it"? I would have laughed in her face at that phrase.

103 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:37:13am

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think the problem with the education system was ever that they were mentioning too many Hispanic Medal of Honor awardees.

As far as I can tell, according to the link here and on the last thread, they aren't mentioning any MOH winners. Is that not right?

104 Learned Mother of Zion  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:37:24am

re: #39 Charles

Stalkers now taking over the BBC thread about my interview -- the exact same raving freaks who showed up at Dangerous Minds, including "buzzsawmonkey" (posting as "CaptainAmerica"):

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

"bweep" appears to be an anti-Semitic whacko.

105 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:37:25am

re: #91 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"OK, We need someone who can stay late and over the weekend who can scan 600 servers, can do root cause analysis on the findings and help the engineering team resolve the issues? Who do we have available?"
"Kragar and the Power Point girl"
"..."
"I'll call Kragar and let him know."

LOL

but engineers make the worst powerpoint presentations.

"I'm going to make all the 500 words on this slide fly in one at a time"

106 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:37:35am

re: #85 marjoriemoon

Is it just happening in Austin?

Oddly enough, Austin is very un-Texas like. It's very different from the rest of the state due to all the transplants from other states that come here to work in the tech sector. I like to call Austin a small island of reason surrounded by an ocean of WTF and douchebaggery.

It just so happens that the SBOE meets here, seeing as how it's the state capital and all.

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:38:38am

re: #103 RogueOne

As far as I can tell, according to the link here and on the last thread, they aren't mentioning any MOH winners. Is that not right?

Not totally clear to me. Either way though...

108 Escaped Hillbilly  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:38:47am

re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

One of the people on the team short list to cut actually has "Proficient with Powerpoint" as her leading job skill. Which explains why no one trusts her with more serious work.

Must have been an officer. Standard Army education model...Death by Powepoint.
Class I'm in right now, the slides don't match the lesson plan, references don't match the IETM's we've been given, and the review questions have no relation to the test. Instructors (NCOs) have no ability to change them because the classes at our level are written by civilians and approved by a general officer.

109 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:38:48am

re: #93 Lidane

Some of us having been saying this for ages, but being a liberal and/or a Democrat in this state is like being a Bears fan in Green Bay. Not pretty.

oh, come on. being a republican in Chicago was a riot. there's so much good material laying around and you have less competition to pick it up and run with it!

110 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:39:22am

re: #93 Lidane

Some of us having been saying this for ages, but being a liberal and/or a Democrat in this state is like being a Bears fan in Green Bay. Not pretty.

I'm a Republican, I voted for Nixon, Ford, Bush, Reagan, Dole, Bush, McCain... I will continue to say the same thing until it sinks in. If the crazy continues past elections 2010 I'll probably be registering Democrat however.

111 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:39:35am

re: #58 Jeff In Ohio

On the subject of revisionism, Ben GLeck, er, I mean Glen Beck revisits McCarthy:

Good grief. I am a life-long anti-communist. Further, I believe in the reality of Marxist ideological infiltration in government, academia, and the media (though not in any kind of unified conspiracy). I make no apologies for that.

This notion that "McCarthy was right" comes up frequently in anti-communist circles these days. This has to be based either on ignorance of McCarthy's career and claims or on willfull prevarication. McCarthy did not unmask a single communist or prove any act of subversion, not at the time and not in hindsight. He was an incoherent drunk riding a shamefully credulous wave of media attention and political hysteria. On balance, his insane and cruel accusations probably did more to damage the anti-communist cause than any other single factor in the Cold War.

112 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:39:39am

re: #104 Alouette

"bweep" appears to be an anti-Semitic whacko.

He was banned from LGF for spewing that same crap -- almost THREE YEARS ago.

And he's still stalking me around the web.

113 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:40:30am

re: #109 Aceofwhat?

oh, come on. being a republican in Chicago was a riot. there's so much good material laying around and you have less competition to pick it up and run with it!

Problem is, the Democrats here might as well have "Kick Me!" signs stapled to their backs. Most of them are forgettable, especially since Ann Richards died.

I have some hope for Bill White in November, but at this point I've resigned myself to Perry staying in office until he retires or resigns.

114 jvic  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:40:34am

re: #3 SteveMcG

How long is it until whites are a minority in TX?

According to Wikipedia, they already are (barely).

Don't they have the slightest concern that the tide can turn against them?

Governor George Bush attracted a big chunk of the Hispanic vote. IMO the religious right wants to proselytize enough Hispanics to maintain a strong majority.

Besides, I question whether one-person-one-vote is an essential part of the dominionist agenda.

115 recusancy  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:40:50am

re: #106 Lidane

Oddly enough, Austin is very un-Texas like. It's very different from the rest of the state due to all the transplants from other states that come here to work in the tech sector. I like to call Austin a small island of reason surrounded by an ocean of WTF and douchebaggery.

It just so happens that the SBOE meets here, seeing as how it's the state capital and all.

Here's a map of your small island in a sea of red from '08 elections.

116 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:40:52am

I remember when I was approximately 10 years old, I turned on the TV and this televangelist was on, SLIGHTLY paraphrasing, "I had to go to Cancun on my yacht the last 2 weeks for when I laid on your letters you mailed in and prayed over them...the INK seaped into my veins and I got so sick...my Dr. said it could have been fatal had I not got immediate sun exposure...so please send your donations to cover my Dr. costs!"

Even at that age my BS detector went off. Vile cretins they are.

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:41:10am

re: #111 Shiplord Kirel

He was an incoherent drunk riding a shamefully credulous wave of media attention and political hysteria.

I can see why Beck might feel a connection.

118 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:41:40am

Federal. Education. Standards. For. Text. Books.

With that, I'm out for a bit.

119 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:42:01am

re: #102 darthstar

"prepared to bring it"? I would have laughed in her face at that phrase.

I was too shocked to do that. I wish now that I had. She's ex-military and boy does it show! She should have been wearing khakis and carrying an M16 instead of a short skirt and a purse. RWC says I should have pulled out my RO (range Officer) persona and told her to take a flying leap and not do me any favors by saying she'd hire me. *Sigh* Hindsight is always 20/20..

120 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:42:28am

re: #106 Lidane

Oddly enough, Austin is very un-Texas like. It's very different from the rest of the state due to all the transplants from other states that come here to work in the tech sector. I like to call Austin a small island of reason surrounded by an ocean of WTF and douchebaggery.

I have relatives in Dallas who are not douchebags.

121 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:42:43am

re: #111 Shiplord Kirel

Good grief. I am a life-long anti-communist. Further, I believe in the reality of Marxist ideological infiltration in government, academia, and the media (though not in any kind of unified conspiracy). I make no apologies for that.

This notion that "McCarthy was right" comes up frequently in anti-communist circles these days. This has to be based either on ignorance of McCarthy's career and claims or on willfull prevarication. McCarthy did not unmask a single communist or prove any act of subversion, not at the time and not in hindsight. He was an incoherent drunk riding a shamefully credulous wave of media attention and political hysteria. On balance, his insane and cruel accusations probably did more to damage the anti-communist cause than any other single factor in the Cold War.

Wait. What about the Venona Cables?

122 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:42:59am

re: #106 Lidane

Oddly enough, Austin is very un-Texas like. It's very different from the rest of the state due to all the transplants from other states that come here to work in the tech sector. I like to call Austin a small island of reason surrounded by an ocean of WTF and douchebaggery.

It just so happens that the SBOE meets here, seeing as how it's the state capital and all.

I must admit I'm a bit ignorant as to how these things work. Is this curriculum they're setting for all Texas public schools?

123 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:43:08am

re: #105 Jeff In Ohio

LOL

but engineers make the worst powerpoint presentations.

"I'm going to make all the 500 words on this slide fly in one at a time"

CSV files are my most powerful weapon.

"Kragar, you just sent me a 64,000 line CSV detailing the faults on the systems."
"Yeah, you now have all the raw data for you to sort thru as you need it."
"But I only asked if the scans were done."
"Yeah, but I know how this goes, so I preempted you. Red lines are high priority, yellow are high but not due yet, orange are contractually disputed, greens are false findings. I'm going to lunch.

124 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:43:20am

re: #111 Shiplord Kirel

And had the effect of hurting so many good people, like my friend Charles Muscatine.

[Link: www.trackedinamerica.org...]

Fired for refusing to sign a loyalty oath.

125 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:44:05am

re: #97 MandyManners

Don't let others define you. I'm conservative but, I'm opposed to this kind of bullshit.

Thanks, you go a long way to helping ease the confusion. :-)

126 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:44:07am

re: #108 Escaped Hillbilly

Must have been an officer. Standard Army education model...Death by Powepoint.
Class I'm in right now, the slides don't match the lesson plan, references don't match the IETM's we've been given, and the review questions have no relation to the test. Instructors (NCOs) have no ability to change them because the classes at our level are written by civilians and approved by a general officer.

Former Chief Petty officer, hired because the supervisor knew her from his Navy days and she had a clearance. He chose...poorly.

127 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:44:08am

re: #111 Shiplord Kirel

Good grief. I am a life-long anti-communist. Further, I believe in the reality of Marxist ideological infiltration in government, academia, and the media (though not in any kind of unified conspiracy). I make no apologies for that.

This notion that "McCarthy was right" comes up frequently in anti-communist circles these days. This has to be based either on ignorance of McCarthy's career and claims or on willfull prevarication. McCarthy did not unmask a single communist or prove any act of subversion, not at the time and not in hindsight. He was an incoherent drunk riding a shamefully credulous wave of media attention and political hysteria. On balance, his insane and cruel accusations probably did more to damage the anti-communist cause than any other single factor in the Cold War.

Whittaker Chambers did more, to my mind, than just about any other public figure of the day, and he hated the limelight.

128 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:44:32am

re: #88 LudwigVanQuixote

Did I mention I really like your style? You have my sympathy. It is very painful for an educated and basically sane person to see her world slip into madness.

It's always been there, so part of me has gotten used to this state slipping into madness, but in the last couple of years the wingnuts have really gone overboard.

It's enough to drive a person to drink, or at the very least wish for very heavy history books to smack these people with. I haven't decided which is the better option. =P

Take back your state!

I want to. Believe me. And I wish there was a much stronger Democratic party around here. Since Ann Richards died, the party has basically fallen into irrelevance. *sigh*

129 recusancy  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:44:38am

re: #122 marjoriemoon

I must admit I'm a bit ignorant as to how these things work. Is this curriculum they're setting for all Texas public schools?

Yes. And publishers usually decide to just make one version of a book to make it easier and those standards are usually set by their largest customer ie Texas. So most or all of America is effected.

130 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:44:44am

re: #122 marjoriemoon

I must admit I'm a bit ignorant as to how these things work. Is this curriculum they're setting for all Texas public schools?

Well, from what I understand, Texas, being such a huge player in purchasing the texts from publishers, will cause the REST of us to be forced to adopt whatever they use as textbooks due to the sake of cost.

I may be wrong on that however.

131 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:44:45am

re: #111 Shiplord Kirel

Good grief. I am a life-long anti-communist. Further, I believe in the reality of Marxist ideological infiltration in government, academia, and the media (though not in any kind of unified conspiracy). I make no apologies for that.

This notion that "McCarthy was right" comes up frequently in anti-communist circles these days. This has to be based either on ignorance of McCarthy's career and claims or on willfull prevarication. McCarthy did not unmask a single communist or prove any act of subversion, not at the time and not in hindsight. He was an incoherent drunk riding a shamefully credulous wave of media attention and political hysteria. On balance, his insane and cruel accusations probably did more to damage the anti-communist cause than any other single factor in the Cold War.

You can repeat that last 100 more times! McCarthy and his Bircher tagalongs are an anathema to the Anti communist cause.

132 fantasmaguero  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:45:05am

Any mind warped enough to see John Calvin - the Torquemada of Geneva - as morally and intellectually superior to the Deist/Agnostic architects of our Constitution simply cannot be trusted to produce a meaningful thought on any subject of worth. We should be thankful that - unlike the aforementioned Swiss tyrant - these people haven't the power to imprison and execute. (Not that Texas requires further expedience in that area.)

133 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:45:31am

re: #131 Thanos

You can repeat that last 100 more times! McCarthy and his Bircher tagalongs are an anathema to the Anti communist cause.

mmm. tagalongs!

[Link: www.littlebrowniebakers.com...]

134 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:46:05am

re: #120 Mad Al-Jaffee

I have relatives in Dallas who are not douchebags.

So do I. I've got relatives in San Antonio and all along the border, too. And I went to high school in Houston.

I just like it here better than anywhere else, since it really IS very different from the rest of the state. :)

135 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:46:09am

re: #133 Guanxi88

mmm. tagalongs!

[Link: www.littlebrowniebakers.com...]

It's that time of year again!

136 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:46:37am

re: #122 marjoriemoon

I must admit I'm a bit ignorant as to how these things work. Is this curriculum they're setting for all Texas public schools?

Sadly, yes. What the SBOE votes on is the statewide educational standards.

137 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:46:44am

re: #85 marjoriemoon

Is it just happening in Austin?

No, it isn't just in Austin. Bob Craig and I are both in Lubbock. So is the source of this report, KOHM radio (NPR).

138 theheat  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:47:10am

When I talk to some of my friends about the hard push from the religious right in the education system, most of them pass it off like, "So, what's the harm of a little religion in school? I don't know what the big deal is. Besides, our country has more important issues at hand. Let them pray. Let them talk about Intelligent Design. Big deal. It doesn't hurt kids to have a little religion in their lives. What we really need to do is stop Obama!"

It puts me at stroke level. It really does. Why the fuck is any of this okay? It's a horrible injustice, it's an affront to reason and intelligence.

Mr. Heat gets it. He's probably sick of hearing me squawk about it, but he indulges me. Last time I brought up Perry's agenda, all he said with a sly grin was, "I bet you're thankful for all your Jewish friends."

Amen, and I am. And the gays. And the liberals. And the atheists. And the non-fundie Christians. And everyone I know that isn't cramming their fundie shit down the country's throat.

139 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:47:52am

re: #129 recusancy

Yes. And publishers usually decide to just make one version of a book to make it easier and those standards are usually set by their largest customer ie Texas. So most or all of America is effected.

bah. trust in capitalism, even if the Texas maroons don't. publishers will print whatever they can sell. plenty of states aren't going to fall in line with this.

now if textbook printing were a centrally-controlled government industry.../

140 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:49:25am

re: #134 Lidane

So do I. I've got relatives in San Antonio and all along the border, too. And I went to high school in Houston.

I just like it here better than anywhere else, since it really IS very different from the rest of the state. :)

Texas, for those not blessed with the Divine favor to be born here, or the good sense to move here, is such a vast and variable place as to almost defy description.

Wifey goes to a hard-core Baptist church; got a gay youth minister (20+ years on the job - they won't let the guy retire), a Green pastor, and a huge buncha republican ladies all cheek-by-jowl with ancient native-borns bred outta Tejano, Germanic, and Czech stock.

Now, you get out int he sticks in East Texas, or you get too far over into the West Texas oil patch, and things get a little odd.

141 Escaped Hillbilly  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:49:32am

re: #126 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir) I'm not hip to Navy rank Chief Petty Officer is NCO no?

142 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:49:40am

re: #129 recusancy

Yes. And publishers usually decide to just make one version of a book to make it easier and those standards are usually set by their largest customer ie Texas. So most or all of America is effected.

re: #130 Oh no...Sand People!

Well, from what I understand, Texas, being such a huge player in purchasing the texts from publishers, will cause the REST of us to be forced to adopt whatever they use as textbooks due to the sake of cost.

I may be wrong on that however.

I don't know what to say. It seems completely unconstitutional and I don't know how it could stand.

143 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:49:40am

I have written many times that the thing that causes me the most pain (and it does literally hurt my head, there is a physical sensation) is the act of stating that something is its opposite.

American ideals:

All men (as in everyone - and this notion extended to women) have the same spiritual and political worth in the eyes of God and the nation.

God is "nature's God." In otherwords, God Himself follows His own laws and runs the universe in an orderly way that men can emulate by using their reason.

As a direct result, religion is firmly divorced from the state so that no-one may impose their religious views on others through state coercion.

As a direct result, race does not matter. You are just as American no matter what your ethnic or national ancestry.

As a direct result, science and technology flourish and we can have a notion of progress.

These are three cornerstone principles that have made America the beacon of freedom to the world. For all of our flaws, these are the three notions that most define us as a nation worth fighting for.

Not all Americans agree with that though.

There have always been plenty who see those things as only true when applied to themselves. They pervert the ideals of this nation and cloak themselves in the imagery of the nation. Most commonly, in America, that means white, wealthy and Christian people wrap themselves in the flag to impose themselves unjustly on those they consider lesser and express their contempt for all others who either disagree or do not fit in their image.

Their hubris is that they are God Himself and that they would remake you in their own image. This is unless you are not of them. Then you will learn "your place" and serve them.

It is nearly impossible to express how bad the Calvinist world view is, when it is taken to the extremes that these people take it. Calvin himself in his doctrine of predestination was playing a sort of intellectual and theological game. I doubt sincerely that he wanted people to actually see themselves as the elect or with special privileges. However, much like the Nazi's abused Darwin the American Taliban is abusing Calvin.

They really do believe that they are spiritually better than you and have a divine right to reshape this nation - away from - and in a way that completely destroys he principles of America. It is of course the same story though. A group of power thinks that they have inherently more rights thnan others, including the right to abuse others. The difference between a "master race" and an "elect" when taken in this light is very small indeed.

Is it a coincidence that it is called Dominionism? Is it a coincidence that so many of these people are deeply racist? Of course not.

144 Millicent Islam  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:50:14am

re: #129 recusancy

Yes. And publishers usually decide to just make one version of a book to make it easier and those standards are usually set by their largest customer ie Texas. So most or all of America is effected.

That's right. IIRC TX is one of the single largest buyers of textbooks in the nation-- as TX goes, so does the country.

145 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:50:43am

re: #141 Escaped Hillbilly

I'm not hip to Navy rank Chief Petty Officer is NCO no?

E-7 and higher, I know she made Chief, not sure about Master or Senior Chief

146 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:50:45am

re: #138 theheat

When I talk to some of my friends about the hard push from the religious right in the education system, most of them pass it off like, "So, what's the harm of a little religion in school? I don't know what the big deal is. Besides, our country has more important issues at hand. Let them pray. Let them talk about Intelligent Design. Big deal. It doesn't hurt kids to have a little religion in their lives. What we really need to do is stop Obama!"

It puts me at stroke level. It really does. Why the fuck is any of this okay? It's a horrible injustice, it's an affront to reason and intelligence.

Mr. Heat gets it. He's probably sick of hearing me squawk about it, but he indulges me. Last time I brought up Perry's agenda, all he said with a sly grin was, "I bet you're thankful for all your Jewish friends."

Amen, and I am. And the gays. And the liberals. And the atheists. And the non-fundie Christians. And everyone I know that isn't cramming their fundie shit down the country's throat.

Sounds to me like your friends have been brain washed, so much so they don't see whats right in front of them. And it sounds as if your hubby is a pretty nice guy.

147 Girth  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:51:09am

From the TFN liveblog earlier:

11:33 – Bob Craig tries, once again, to talk some sense into these folks. Board member Cynthia Dunbar argues that the original standard’s focus on the rights of “petition, assembly, speech, and press in a democratic society” unfairly emphasizes the First Amendment over others. She suggests taking that out altogether if the Second Amendment isn’t included. Board member Ken Mercer argues that the right to bear arms is too important not to include here. But it IS included in the standards. The purpose of the original standard is to have students understand the rights to free expression in a democratic society. The right to bear arms is not relevant to that purpose.

11:40 – We wonder why they wouldn’t include the freedom of religious expression in this amendment instead of the right to bear arms.

These people are too fucking stupid to be designing curriculum for school children. Sorry Texas children, your parents don't care about you being educated, they just want you to think like they do.

148 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:51:36am

re: #139 Aceofwhat?

bah. trust in capitalism, even if the Texas maroons don't. publishers will print whatever they can sell. plenty of states aren't going to fall in line with this.

now if textbook printing were a centrally-controlled government industry.../

You don't get it, do you? Texas is the bellwether for American textbook publishers. The books chosen in Texas set the orders in many other states.

It's actually precisely a matter of capitalism. Publishers print what sells the most.

149 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:52:02am

re: #134 Lidane

So do I. I've got relatives in San Antonio and all along the border, too. And I went to high school in Houston.

I just like it here better than anywhere else, since it really IS very different from the rest of the state. :)

My bro lived in Greenville, I believe, outside of Dallas? for awhile. Lovely area. I used to visit every chance I got. The people were wonderful. The nightlife was great, food, clubs. Maybe 20 years ago. I really fell in love with Dallas at the time.

150 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:53:02am

re: #144 iceweasel

That's right. IIRC TX is one of the single largest buyers of textbooks in the nation-- as TX goes, so does the country.

not true

151 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:53:02am

re: #149 marjoriemoon

My bro lived in Greenville, I believe, outside of Dallas? for awhile. Lovely area. I used to visit every chance I got. The people were wonderful. The nightlife was great, food, clubs. Maybe 20 years ago. I really fell in love with Dallas at the time.

Ahh, yes! The BIG D! All the best of everything, all in one place, spread out like peanut butter on a cheapskate's sandwich.

152 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:53:15am

re: #148 Cato the Elder

You don't get it, do you? Texas is the bellwether for American textbook publishers. The books chosen in Texas set the orders in many other states.

It's actually precisely a matter of capitalism. Publishers print what sells the most.

Thats just down right scary! :-O

153 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:53:59am

re: #148 Cato the Elder

You don't get it, do you? Texas is the bellwether for American textbook publishers. The books chosen in Texas set the orders in many other states.

It's actually precisely a matter of capitalism. Publishers print what sells the most.

How else you gonna explain those teenage vampire books?

154 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:54:28am

re: #151 Guanxi88

Ahh, yes! The BIG D! All the best of everything, all in one place, spread out like peanut butter on a cheapskate's sandwich.

It's still laid out better than Houston. The layout there makes a Jackson Pollock painting look coherent. =P

155 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:54:35am

re: #148 Cato the Elder

You don't get it, do you? Texas is the bellwether for American textbook publishers. The books chosen in Texas set the orders in many other states.

It's actually precisely a matter of capitalism. Publishers print what sells the most.

you don't really believe that you can wander in to a public high school in each state and you'll find the same book, do you? you'll find a limited set of books.

I emphasize the word SET.

156 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:54:48am

After careful consideration, I have to say Anthrax's "Persistence of Time" is one of the greatest Metal albums ever released.

My evidence:

157 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:55:31am

omg evan turner just hit a 30' shot to beat Michigan...

158 Escaped Hillbilly  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:55:32am

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The thing is, the career counselors actually tell ex mil. to use Powerpoint profieciency on their resume. Like anyone actually cares! When I had my break in service I went thru the whole employment program and heard that lame advice.

159 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:55:49am

re: #121 Oh no...Sand People!

Wait. What about the Venona Cables?

The Venona Cables did not confirm any of McCarthy's claims at all. They did confirm the guilt of the Rosenbergs but they had been tried and executed during the early phases of McCarthy's career. He had no role in the investigation or prosecution. Some of the targets of the House UnAmerican Activities were in fact confirmed as Soviet agents. HUAC is often confused with McCarthy, especially by leftists who ignorantly refer to "McCarthy's HUAC hearings", but they are not the same. Venona did implicate several others, previously unsuspected, as Soviet agents, but nobody on any of McCarthy's famous lists.

160 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:56:09am

re: #148 Cato the Elder

You don't get it, do you? Texas is the bellwether for American textbook publishers. The books chosen in Texas set the orders in many other states.

It's actually precisely a matter of capitalism. Publishers print what sells the most.

And of course, since it is all about money in the education business, whether or not the text books are true, takes second place to profits.

This is a great case of where capitalism fails, and there should, their really should, be a national standard - set by educators and not by politicians.

161 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:56:22am

re: #154 Lidane

It's still laid out better than Houston. The layout there makes a Jackson Pollock painting look coherent. =P

Houston's lay-out is really just a 3-d exercise in anamorphism, and a layground for future archaeologists.

I figure, between Houston and Las Vegas, we'll have them pretty well confused.

162 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:56:23am

re: #156 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

After careful consideration, I have to say Anthrax's "Persistence of Time" is one of the greatest Metal albums ever released.

My evidence:


[Video]

Brutal!

163 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:57:19am

re: #155 Aceofwhat?

you don't really believe that you can wander in to a public high school in each state and you'll find the same book, do you? you'll find a limited set of books.

I emphasize the word SET.

Not in each state, perhaps. But in many. It's called "economies of scale". And no, they don't used "sets" of books for a given subject like social studies. They use a book. And if that book was vetted in Texas, the largest textbook buyer in the country (larger than California, I believe, because Cali does not have a statewide program), your kids will be taught what the kids in Texas are taught.

164 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:57:26am

re: #162 LudwigVanQuixote

Brutal!

The instrumental "Intro to reality" is one of my all time favorites.

165 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:58:00am

While we're slapping around public schools I thought this graph might come in handy:

[Link: www.higheredinfo.org...]

The damn-dirty hippies in CO are kicking the rest of the countries ass. Anyone notice anything similar about the upper half of the grouping?

166 Girth  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:58:18am

I can't begin to describe just how glad I am that I'm not a teacher in the state of Texas.

167 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 10:59:06am

re: #159 Shiplord Kirel

The Venona Cables did not confirm any of McCarthy's claims at all. They did confirm the guilt of the Rosenbergs but they had been tried and executed during the early phases of McCarthy's career. He had no role in the investigation or prosecution. Some of the targets of the House UnAmerican Activities were in fact confirmed as Soviet agents. HUAC is often confused with McCarthy, especially by leftists who ignorantly refer to "McCarthy's HUAC hearings", but they are not the same. Venona did implicate several others, previously unsuspected, as Soviet agents, but nobody on any of McCarthy's famous lists.

I want to agree with you, but like her or not, Ann Coulter puts up a way solid wall with a boatload of sources showing that McCarthy was teh MAN, but I read it a LONG time ago, I'll have to dig it out.

168 theheat  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:00:00am

re: #146 Dragon_Lady

Sounds to me like your friends have been brain washed, so much so they don't see whats right in front of them. And it sounds as if your hubby is a pretty nice guy.

I'm afraid the brain washing about "a little religion in [public] school isn't a big deal" is country wide, which is frightening. Few people ponder the implications, and the fundies rely on such apathy. As long as there are other matters to distract the attention of the masses, the fundies are free to rewrite history.

At least with Mr. Heat, the godawful terrier, and the horses - they don't interrupt when I blow a circuit over this stuff. It's a motley crew, but they have my back ;-)

169 recusancy  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:00:27am

re: #139 Aceofwhat?

bah. trust in capitalism, even if the Texas maroons don't. publishers will print whatever they can sell. plenty of states aren't going to fall in line with this.

now if textbook printing were a centrally-controlled government industry.../

Bah. It matters, even with the magical capitalism.

170 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:00:55am

re: #161 Guanxi88

Has anyone generated what Houston is going to look like if there is a minor rise in sea level? I seem to recall that most of that area is simply not sitting that high above the Gulf of Mexico.

And my visits to Texas seem to carry weather effects, mainly rain. Three trips to Houston/Galveston have all involved thunderstorms and minor flooding. But that's early summer and probably standard for that area.

A visit to San Antonio for two days had rain falling half the time I was there.

My most recent visit was to Fort Worth last September. Started raining the day I got there and kept up until I left. Flooding near Dallas, and I think it also signaled the end of a drought.

Maybe I'm like that truck driver in the Hitchhiker's Guide books. I'm a rain god in Texas and they should pay me to stay out of the state.

171 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:01:26am

re: #163 Cato the Elder

Not in each state, perhaps. But in many. It's called "economies of scale". And no, they don't used "sets" of books for a given subject like social studies. They use a book. And if that book was vetted in Texas, the largest textbook buyer in the country (larger than California, I believe, because Cali does not have a statewide program), your kids will be taught what the kids in Texas are taught.

There are a set of 'social studies' books, to use your example, available for states to choose from. Texas is large enough to be a market for which a publisher will create a custom book, or more.

That is not at all to say that other options have not, are not, and will not remain available to other states. Florida has alternative choices, and will continue to have alternative choices.

172 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:02:22am

re: #170 oaktree

Maybe I'm like that truck driver in the Hitchhiker's Guide books. I'm a rain god in Texas and they should pay me to stay out of the state.

Hell, here in Central Texas, we'd pay you to stick around. Stupid drought. Although, El Nino is helping things a bit.

173 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:02:43am

re: #155 Aceofwhat?

you don't really believe that you can wander in to a public high school in each state and you'll find the same book, do you? you'll find a limited set of books.

I emphasize the word SET.

I went to public school in 3 different states. Three states, three completely different sets of curriculum. In fact, moving from the east coast to the midwest, I was practically a full grade ahead of my peers which was pretty awful. But that was the 70s.

174 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:02:56am

re: #170 oaktree

Has anyone generated what Houston is going to look like if there is a minor rise in sea level?

Like Venice, if it were built by lunatics.

175 Ericus58  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:03:00am

re: #141 Escaped Hillbilly

I'm not hip to Navy rank Chief Petty Officer is NCO no?

E-7

176 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:03:23am

re: #160 LudwigVanQuixote

And of course, since it is all about money in the education business, whether or not the text books are true, takes second place to profits.

This is a great case of where capitalism fails, and there should, their really should, be a national standard - set by educators and not by politicians.

Except I don't trust our national pols to do any better.

177 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:04:09am

re: #165 RogueOne

While we're slapping around public schools I thought this graph might come in handy:

[Link: www.higheredinfo.org...]

The damn-dirty hippies in CO are kicking the rest of the countries ass. Anyone notice anything similar about the upper half of the grouping?

And yet another reason to legalize marijuana :p

178 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:04:10am

re: #176 Cato the Elder

Except I don't trust our national pols to do any better.

Even with the Texas debacle, I favor states' rights in this case.

179 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:04:12am

re: #171 Aceofwhat?

I think that is pretty standard SOP. I worked in a text-book warehouse (owned by Raytheon) for a short time. Most states have their own curriculum and the books are tailored for each specific state. The History book my sis-n-law uses in her high school class in Indiana was edited by teachers in this state (3 of which are teachers at my former high school).

180 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:04:44am

IN honor of the Texas School board:

181 cliffster  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:05:13am

re: #170 oaktree

Has anyone generated what Houston is going to look like if there is a minor rise in sea level? I seem to recall that most of that area is simply not sitting that high above the Gulf of Mexico.

And my visits to Texas seem to carry weather effects, mainly rain. Three trips to Houston/Galveston have all involved thunderstorms and minor flooding. But that's early summer and probably standard for that area.

A visit to San Antonio for two days had rain falling half the time I was there.

My most recent visit was to Fort Worth last September. Started raining the day I got there and kept up until I left. Flooding near Dallas, and I think it also signaled the end of a drought.

Maybe I'm like that truck driver in the Hitchhiker's Guide books. I'm a rain god in Texas and they should pay me to stay out of the state.

That's funny. I've been to Seattle 3 times. Twice for 5 days, once for 4, total of 14 days (that's math - AND I was educated in Texas). Out of all that, I've seen one day of rain. One. What's all this BS about it raining all the time there

182 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:06:13am

Did you guys read the article?
[Link: kohm.org...]

183 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:07:57am

It doesn't look anything like "Republican religious fanatics’ attempts to turn sociology into a “whites only” course."

184 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:08:56am

re: #39 Charles

I just went and posted again. Heh, I'll bet the unemployment rate among your stalker/ haters is 99%. Just what I surmise from all their extra time.

My latest comment at BBC may get moderated off, as I pointed out Oil Tick refers to the Saudi Royal family-And that before oil they were "pilgrimage tics" as they would charge for access to Mecca during the Pilgrimage. So, we'll have to see how their moderator treats that.

185 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:09:59am

re: #171 Aceofwhat?

There are a set of 'social studies' books, to use your example, available for states to choose from. Texas is large enough to be a market for which a publisher will create a custom book, or more.

That is not at all to say that other options have not, are not, and will not remain available to other states. Florida has alternative choices, and will continue to have alternative choices.

Ace... Cato is right on this subject...

"Decisions by the board — long led by social conservatives who have advocated ideas such as teaching more about the weaknesses of evolutionary theory — affects textbook content nationwide because Texas is one of publishers’ biggest clients."

186 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:10:36am

re: #59 Dragon_Lady

Arizona baby!!! Open carry, & sensible CCW.

187 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:11:04am

re: #180 LudwigVanQuixote

IN honor of the Texas School board.

In honor of the Texas school board and Mandy, see my new avatar.

188 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:11:08am

re: #183 mr. hammer

It doesn't look anything like "Republican religious fanatics’ attempts to turn sociology into a “whites only” course."

"An approved amendment introduced by former board chairman Don McLeroy, one of the board’s most prominent social conservatives, deleted a reference to hip-hop as an example of a significant cultural movement; McLeroy said hip-hop music is nihilistic and replaced it with country music."

189 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:11:50am

re: #183 mr. hammer

It doesn't look anything like "Republican religious fanatics’ attempts to turn sociology into a “whites only” course."

"But Republican board members argued that pinpointing three war heroes out of the thousands that have been honored “diminishes the accomplishment of other recipients.”"

And are you aware of the background of these board members mentioned above?

190 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:11:53am

re: #66 Lidane

Speak up speak out. Change from within. :)

191 fantasmaguero  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:12:13am

re: #147 Girth

Plenty of Texas parents DO care. Just not enough - yet - to prevent the retrogrades from running roughshod on the great rational and empirical traditions of humanity. Dei sacrificium intellectus is still a default mental state to far too many people. I'd like to think that they are merely a galvanized and vocal minority, but cases like this give me pause.

192 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:12:41am

re: #189 Walter L. Newton

But Walter, they are talking about a WORLD history class.

193 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:12:50am

re: #179 RogueOne

I think that is pretty standard SOP. I worked in a text-book warehouse (owned by Raytheon) for a short time. Most states have their own curriculum and the books are tailored for each specific state. The History book my sis-n-law uses in her high school class in Indiana was edited by teachers in this state (3 of which are teachers at my former high school).

EXACTLY.

For those who wish a little supply chain theory...

The production volumes required to fulfill any medium-sized US state are more than enough to drive a simple product like textbook printing down to the lower bound of cost.

The devil in these details is whether a publisher thinks they have enough volume to justify the creation of a new product, the cost barrier of which is much, much higher than the cost of printing additional volumes of existing textbook X, Y or Z.

Cato...Walter...others: simply put, economies of scale with regard to production (as opposed to product development, mind you) of a simple product have a natural limit at the output of a stand-alone facility.

I know of no publishing facility which can fulfill the orders of one state, much less the entire nation. Ergo, production costs are a non-factor for the purposes of this discussion.

Make sense?

194 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:13:12am

re: #179 RogueOne

I'm sorry, but that's largely untrue. Most publishers publish a single version of their textbooks, not multiple versions for each state.

This is going to affect the whole country, unless the publishers just hold off until the new board gets sworn in.

195 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:13:15am

re: #58 Jeff In Ohio

Glenn Beck was way better on CNN. Think about it, what was the most outrageous thing he said or did there? The venue sure made a difference!

196 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:13:53am

And by the way...

"Whites only" curricula?

Anyone who claims that the right in America is not racist will be bitten.

197 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:13:56am

re: #190 Rightwingconspirator

Speak up speak out. Change from within. :)

Lidane's in Austin - "speaking out" here would have to tend rightward, as the place is culturally and politically, of the left. It's not as left as most places, but is about as left as Texas gets.

198 cliffster  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:14:12am

re: #188 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"An approved amendment introduced by former board chairman Don McLeroy, one of the board’s most prominent social conservatives, deleted a reference to hip-hop as an example of a significant cultural movement; McLeroy said hip-hop music is nihilistic and replaced it with country music."

Haha, I was about to point that out. Those are both stupid.

199 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:14:13am

re: #193 Aceofwhat?

Do you mind that that conflicts with actual reality?

200 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:14:18am

re: #188 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"An approved amendment introduced by former board chairman Don McLeroy, one of the board’s most prominent social conservatives, deleted a reference to hip-hop as an example of a significant cultural movement; McLeroy said hip-hop music is nihilistic and replaced it with country music."

You can have my Jay-Z when you pry it from my cold, dead hands...

201 lostlakehiker  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:15:10am

This is indeed sad. The medal of honor is in most cases awarded posthumously. What do you have to do to earn some respect around the Texas school board curriculum committee?

No greater love---

202 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:15:44am

re: #188 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"An approved amendment introduced by former board chairman Don McLeroy, one of the board’s most prominent social conservatives, deleted a reference to hip-hop as an example of a significant cultural movement; McLeroy said hip-hop music is nihilistic and replaced it with country music."

Hip-hop is but the latest iteration of jazz, THE American contribution to Western music.

203 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:15:56am

What is the point of inclusion of include the names of two Hispanic and one black Medal of Honor recipients in lessons for a world history class??

What's the beef?

204 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:16:25am

re: #194 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but that's largely untrue. Most publishers publish a single version of their textbooks, not multiple versions for each state.

This is going to affect the whole country, unless the publishers just hold off until the new board gets sworn in.

dude. i don't think that's true. even if it were true, there's more than one publisher.

205 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:17:15am

re: #199 Obdicut

Do you mind that that conflicts with actual reality?

i would love to have a supply-chain debate. which part do you disagree with?

206 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:17:19am

I know I must be missing something here.

207 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:17:32am

re: #204 Aceofwhat?

I work at a company that makes education children's toys. I know what the hell I'm talking about.

[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...]

There's a good article on it.

Publishers create usually just one version of their textbooks, and sell it throughout the US. That is what actually happens.

208 Dragon_Lady  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:18:07am

re: #168 theheat

I'm afraid the brain washing about "a little religion in [public] school isn't a big deal" is country wide, which is frightening. Few people ponder the implications, and the fundies rely on such apathy. As long as there are other matters to distract the attention of the masses, the fundies are free to rewrite history.

At least with Mr. Heat, the godawful terrier, and the horses - they don't interrupt when I blow a circuit over this stuff. It's a motley crew, but they have my back ;-)

If they try that here in California the Atheists would file a lawsuit the size of Texas so fast it would make a tornado look like it's standing still. We have so many of them here it's not funny and they really squawk when any type of religion is introduced into the school curriculum. When I see whats happening in Texas, I'm almost glad of the loud voice our Atheists have. Almost, but not quit.

209 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:18:16am

re: #207 Obdicut

I work at a company that makes education children's toys. I know what the hell I'm talking about.

[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...]

There's a good article on it.

Publishers create usually just one version of their textbooks, and sell it throughout the US. That is what actually happens.

there exists more than one publisher of textbooks. choice has, does, and will continue to exist.

210 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:18:27am

re: #205 Aceofwhat?

The theory of supply-chain? Nothing. What actually is true for textbook publishing, outside of abstract theory? Mainly that publishers create one version of their textbooks, not multiple versions for individual states.

211 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:19:03am

re: #201 lostlakehiker

This is indeed sad. The medal of honor is in most cases awarded posthumously. What do you have to do to earn some respect around the Texas school board curriculum committee?

No greater love---

And pointless - a HUGE part of our proud military heritage in this state is because of the valor of our Tejano fighting men. Pull up a list of the recipients sometime - it reads like Germany, Mexico, and Ireland all decided to honor their war heroes in one place, to save time.

212 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:19:12am

re: #207 Obdicut

I work at a company that makes education children's toys. I know what the hell I'm talking about.

[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...]

There's a good article on it.

Publishers create usually just one version of their textbooks, and sell it throughout the US. That is what actually happens.

Which is why I ended up reading from close to 20 different books and countless photocopied phamplets for my US History course. Our teacher told us on day 1 our textbook was crap.

213 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:19:17am

re: #209 Aceofwhat?

And if those publishers cannot sell their textbooks to Texas, they are at an enormous competitive disadvantage.

214 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:20:26am

re: #210 Obdicut

The theory of supply-chain? Nothing. What actually is true for textbook publishing, outside of abstract theory? Mainly that publishers create one version of their textbooks, not multiple versions for individual states.

the theory that existing versions of a subject across different publishers will not wither and die on the vine.

215 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:20:50am

re: #206 mr. hammer

I know I must be missing something here.

Critical thinking skills?

216 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:21:01am

re: #193 Aceofwhat?

I know of no publishing facility which can fulfill the orders of one state, much less the entire nation. Ergo, production costs are a non-factor for the purposes of this discussion.

Make sense?

In a world where production can be outsourced to four-score-and-seven countries with slave-labor wages, none whatsoever.

217 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:21:59am

re: #148 Cato the Elder

So California with its huge student population is chopped liver? Does California use Texas approved books?

218 lostlakehiker  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:22:10am

re: #165 RogueOne

While we're slapping around public schools I thought this graph might come in handy:

[Link: www.higheredinfo.org...]

The damn-dirty hippies in CO are kicking the rest of the countries ass. Anyone notice anything similar about the upper half of the grouping?

Northern states do better than southern. Even poor northern states, such as the Dakotas. Correlation with school spending is negative.

219 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:22:13am

re: #213 Obdicut

And if those publishers cannot sell their textbooks to Texas, they are at an enormous competitive disadvantage.

note that the converse is also true, proving my point. multiple markets exist, all large enough to profit different publishers.

are you foretelling the doom of all publishers but one? serious question.

and what 'competitive disadvantage'? not related to production, certainly.

220 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:22:17am

re: #215 Walter L. Newton

Enough with the insults. Did you read the article?

WORLD HISTORY!

221 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:23:44am

re: #213 Obdicut

re: #219 Aceofwhat?

One word:

KINDLE!

222 LudwigVanQuixote  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:24:19am

re: #187 Cato the Elder

In honor of the Texas school board and Mandy, see my new avatar.

Brilliant but you better 'splain why you have that avatar clearly or the stalker types will use it as evidence of your commie ways.

223 jvic  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:24:23am

re: #138 theheat

When I talk to some of my friends about the hard push from the religious right in the education system, most of them pass it off like, "So, what's the harm of a little religion in school? I don't know what the big deal is. Besides, our country has more important issues at hand. Let them pray. Let them talk about Intelligent Design. Big deal. It doesn't hurt kids to have a little religion in their lives. What we really need to do is stop Obama!"

My guess is that the religious right can keep running Texas as long as they 1) keep a handle on demographics--convertible Hispanics are welcome, white liberals are not--and b) maintain an attractive business/employment environment relative to the rest of the country.

Their irrationality will eventually catch up with them, but enormous damage could be done first.

224 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:24:38am

re: #216 Cato the Elder

In a world where production can be outsourced to four-score-and-seven countries with slave-labor wages, none whatsoever.

If my lowest cost boundary is 1 million books, for example, and you order 3 million books, my costs are not lower. I have already hit my lowest-cost bound.

I may actually increase costs to deliver your order within a shorter timeframe. It depends. But price doesn't change much once volumes hit a certain point.

Now does it make sense?

225 cliffster  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:24:59am

re: #220 mr. hammer

Enough with the insults. Did you read the article?

WORLD HISTORY!

I'll agree that there wasn't anything in the article to make one become outraged unless they just wanted to. But the lady had been on the board for a very long time - for her to walk out, I gotta believe that there's plenty going on other than what's being mentioned there.

226 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:25:03am

re: #220 mr. hammer

Enough with the insults. Did you read the article?

WORLD HISTORY!

And here is a ARMY page discussing metal of honor winners in regards to WORLD WARS.

That's what this is about...

[Link: www.history.army.mil...]

227 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:25:15am

re: #217 Rightwingconspirator

So California with its huge student population is chopped liver? Does California use Texas approved books?

bingo

228 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:25:36am

re: #219 Aceofwhat?

note that the converse is also true, proving my point. multiple markets exist, all large enough to profit different publishers.

The converse is not true, Ace. Why do you believe it is?

There is one textbook market. The books compete with each other for sales across the US (and Canada). If you cannot sell your books in Texas-- if you are prohibited by law from doing so-- you are locked out of that market.

The vast majority of other states do not have standards in the same way Texas does, nor do they mandate the purchase in the same way. So, Texas distorts the market, hugely.

Please adjust your theoretical overview to accept the actual distortions of the market caused by Texas's governmental regulations.

are you foretelling the doom of all publishers but one? serious question.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about. no, I'm not.

and what 'competitive disadvantage'? not related to production, certainly.

Sales.

229 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:26:02am

re: #221 Guanxi88

re: #219 Aceofwhat?

One word:

KINDLE!

it's so true. aren't some districts already going e-book?

230 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:26:21am

re: #208 Dragon_Lady

If they try that here in California the Atheists would file a lawsuit the size of Texas so fast it would make a tornado look like it's standing still. We have so many of them here it's not funny and they really squawk when any type of religion is introduced into the school curriculum. When I see whats happening in Texas, I'm almost glad of the loud voice our Atheists have. Almost, but not quit.

God bless the atheists :)

231 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:26:44am

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

Why are you focusing on physical printing of books? Printers and publishers are normally not the same businesses. We're not talking about printers.

232 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:26:45am

re: #226 Walter L. Newton

OK... soo... .. what's the connection???

233 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:27:14am

re: #194 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but that's largely untrue. Most publishers publish a single version of their textbooks, not multiple versions for each state.

This is going to affect the whole country, unless the publishers just hold off until the new board gets sworn in.

Have you taken a look at the high school books your local school is using this year? I don't know about your state but I do know the text books used in my state are edited by Indiana teachers and tailored to Indiana history.

234 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:27:32am

re: #229 Aceofwhat?

it's so true. aren't some districts already going e-book?

Can you just imagine the efficiencies and improvements to be seen in just a few years? I'm very skeptical of this stuff, but the reader-machine platforms (that is, these etcha-sketch devices with the wireless tele-fax or whatever they are) have the potential to end this kinda crap double-quick.

235 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:28:26am

re: #225 cliffster

OK, Cliff, I'll buy that, but in my opinion, this particular article doesn't illustrate Sir Charles introduction... not at all.

236 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:28:28am

re: #230 marjoriemoon

God bless the atheists :)

The ones in Texas get a double-helping, ya know. State law.

237 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:28:55am

re: #218 lostlakehiker

Northern states do better than southern. Even poor northern states, such as the Dakotas. Correlation with school spending is negative.

That's a good one. I was tending towards the states that have the most libertarian leanings are almost all in the top half, led by CO of course.

238 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:29:43am

Lindane, Ice? WTF?

239 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:29:52am

re: #231 Obdicut

Why are you focusing on physical printing of books? Printers and publishers are normally not the same businesses. We're not talking about printers.


because it's the only arena in which 'economies of scale' make sense.

you have already said that more than one publisher will continue to exist. ergo, more than one version of math, history, language, etc. textbooks will continue to exist.

240 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:30:16am

re: #220 mr. hammer

Enough with the insults. Did you read the article?

WORLD HISTORY!

So wait...war isn't part of world history?

Think about that for a while, and think about exactly why we give out the Medal of Honor, then come back.

241 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:31:06am

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

If my lowest cost boundary is 1 million books, for example, and you order 3 million books, my costs are not lower. I have already hit my lowest-cost bound.

I may actually increase costs to deliver your order within a shorter timeframe. It depends. But price doesn't change much once volumes hit a certain point.

Now does it make sense?

Nope. There are multiple publishing factories in the world. You can have a million books done in Thailand, three million in India, and seven million in China. Within a month.

And they'll give you a free trip to the Bali brothels as a bonus.

242 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:31:40am

re: #233 RogueOne

Have you taken a look at the high school books your local school is using this year? I don't know about your state but I do know the text books used in my state are edited by Indiana teachers and tailored to Indiana history.

That's true, but it's icing on the cake. Publishers are not going to go out of business en masse because Texas aggregates its purchases. Therefore, choice will remain available to other states.

243 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:31:46am

re: #240 Lidane

From my experience, American History class is where this material would be addressed. NOT World History. Call me old fashioned.

244 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:32:11am

re: #233 RogueOne

Indiana is a state that does do some specialized textbook buys, yes. Though I don't know what their standards are, I know the list:

[Link: dew4.doe.in.gov...]

However, you'll notice there are plenty of books on that page which are not specialized Indiana editions.

For example, in grade eight, the approved textbooks for sociology are both the Indiana version and the general one of Holt McDougal: United States History.

245 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:32:46am

re: #222 LudwigVanQuixote

Brilliant but you better 'splain why you have that avatar clearly or the stalker types will use it as evidence of your commie ways.

Will do. I know none of them can read Latin, because most of them can't read English.

246 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:33:34am

re: #239 Aceofwhat?

because it's the only arena in which 'economies of scale' make sense.

you have already said that more than one publisher will continue to exist. ergo, more than one version of math, history, language, etc. textbooks will continue to exist.

I was never arguing that they wouldn't. I really have no clue what you're arguing.

Texas is a hugely important market to publishers. If they can't sell their books there, they're at a huge competitive disadvantage. Many states do not have textbook adoption standards or accept Texas-mandated textbooks.

I'm really not sure what the argument here is about.

247 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:34:02am

re: #241 Cato the Elder

Nope. There are multiple publishing factories in the world. You can have a million books done in Thailand, three million in India, and seven million in China. Within a month.

And they'll give you a free trip to the Bali brothels as a bonus.

Now THAT is a perk/

And at each of those factories, orders in excess of X books cost roughly the same, all other things being equal. So if serving a market >X, you're not at a printing cost disadvantage.

And you'd be surprised how much printing still occurs in the states.

248 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:34:09am

re: #245 Cato the Elder

Will do. I know none of them can read Latin, because most of them can't read English.

But they can infer the shit of anything.

249 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:34:50am

re: #243 mr. hammer

From my experience, American History class is where this material would be addressed. NOT World History. Call me old fashioned.

So WORLD WAR I and WORLD WAR II aren't part of World History? And the Vietnam War only involved the U.S.?

I happen to know the mother of a Medal of Honor recipient. I've known her all my life, pretty much. It would be a damned shame if kids in this state didn't learn about his sacrifice just because some imbeciles at the SBOE thought it would "diminish" the accomplishments of other soldiers that just happened to be white.

250 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:35:56am

re: #246 Obdicut

I was never arguing that they wouldn't. I really have no clue what you're arguing.

Texas is a hugely important market to publishers. If they can't sell their books there, they're at a huge competitive disadvantage. Many states do not have textbook adoption standards or accept Texas-mandated textbooks.

I'm really not sure what the argument here is about.

it is about whether other states will be 'forced' to adopt these same textbooks.

they will not be forced to do so.

further, textbooks warped to the Texas standards will be at a huge disadvantage in other areas. New York and California aren't likely to be fans of this new set of textbooks. There is plenty of market left over to allay our fears that our kids will be 'forced to adopt' Texas books.

251 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:35:56am

I don't presume to speak for Lidane or the other Texans here, but this kinda sh*t ought to be outlawed as a matter of Texas pride. Makes the whole damned state look bad.

The town I'm moving to is named after its MEXICAN governor who was a HERO of the War for Texas Independence, who led Mexican, Txican, and Irish cavalry units against the Mexican army. Man's a damned hero here, and anyone who tries to suppress the role of Hispanics in Texas history is sure to run afoul not only of the Hispanic population here, but also of every right-thinking Texan, regardless of party or religion.

252 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:36:26am

re: #249 Lidane

What the hell are you talking about?? The World Wars are not taught in World History Class.

253 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:37:54am

I will say that, on one item in this news story, the revisionists have a simulacrum of a point. This bit:

It also approved an amendment that deletes a requirement that sociology students “explain how institutional racism is evident in American society.”

Language like that is just an attempt to fit students for liberal hairshirts.
Require them to study if institutional racism in American society? A worthy thought experiment.
How institutional racism was evident in American society? Fine.
How institutional racism is evident in American history? Of course.
But presenting the students with the conclusion, and requiring them to argue their way to it, is underhanded. I fully understand the feelings of the parents who refuse to let their children be indicted with that kind of original sin.

254 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:37:55am

I think some of you guys are just looking for something to be mad about. This article proves nothing.

255 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:37:58am

re: #250 Aceofwhat?

it is about whether other states will be 'forced' to adopt these same textbooks.

they will not be forced to do so.

further, textbooks warped to the Texas standards will be at a huge disadvantage in other areas. New York and California aren't likely to be fans of this new set of textbooks. There is plenty of market left over to allay our fears that our kids will be 'forced to adopt' Texas books.

Do you fucking understand that Texas has already been warping the textbooks for years and we've already had to put up with this shit? Yes, the other states do buy the textbooks coming out of Texas, for economic goddamn reasons, rather than requesting special fucking editions.

It's already fucking happened, Ace. I am getting fucking beyond fed up here.

I'm taking a break.

256 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:38:16am

re: #252 mr. hammer

What the hell are you talking about?? The World Wars are not taught in World History Class.

Since when are the two World Wars not taught in a World History class? You'd have to ignore the 20th Century if that was the case. I call bullshit on that.

257 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:38:51am

re: #244 Obdicut

Indiana is a state that does do some specialized textbook buys, yes. Though I don't know what their standards are, I know the list:

[Link: dew4.doe.in.gov...]

However, you'll notice there are plenty of books on that page which are not specialized Indiana editions.

For example, in grade eight, the approved textbooks for sociology are both the Indiana version and the general one of Holt McDougal: United States History.

Choice is always good but in order to pass the ISTEP test, which is also tailored to Indiana history, it would be helpful if the local school district chose the Indiana version. Looking at our state rankings though I'm not convinced our local districts are making very good choices.

258 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:39:02am

re: #210 Obdicut

Are you telling me California will wind up with the Texas dominionist textbooks?

259 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:39:13am

re: #225 cliffster

I'll agree that there wasn't anything in the article to make one become outraged unless they just wanted to. But the lady had been on the board for a very long time - for her to walk out, I gotta believe that there's plenty going on other than what's being mentioned there.

Very good point. We're probably not hearing the half of what she's been enduring over the years from these people.

260 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:39:35am

re: #258 Rightwingconspirator

Are you telling me California will wind up with the Texas dominionist textbooks?

Yup, they will.

261 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:39:53am

re: #256 Lidane

Since I was in school. The Wars were taught in US History class, and the article stated that the board agreed to revisit the amendment for an American history class.

262 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:40:37am

re: #243 mr. hammer

From my experience, American History class is where this material would be addressed. NOT World History. Call me old fashioned.

In regard to the medals of honor, the article did not indicate US history or World History. It said "social studies".

Debate on the social studies standards has been marked by ideological squabbles over religion and reflection of political viewpoints. Several people have asked the board during previous meetings to include more examples of prominent Hispanics.

Berlanga gave the reason if you read the article.

Berlanga said race relations in the U.S. have progressed, but Hispanics “are still going through discrimination if we can’t even put two names as recipients of the Medal of Honor.”

Republicans answered

But Republican board members argued that pinpointing three war heroes out of the thousands that have been honored “diminishes the accomplishment of other recipients.”

If those other "thousands" include the minority, then fine, but Texas of all places, with a high immigrant population, should be representative of all people there and give honor to them.

263 Millicent Islam  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:41:12am

re: #258 Rightwingconspirator

Are you telling me California will wind up with the Texas dominionist textbooks?

CA wouldn't, because, IIRC, CA is the other largest textbook buyer nationwide.
But other states will. This has been a problem for ten years at least-- this is also why the TX BOE had previous pushes to include creationism in their textbooks, and why those decisions also had potential nationwide impact.

264 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:41:15am

re: #227 Aceofwhat?

With all due respect, I'll have to see that. Unimaginable that LAUSD, or Berkley would go for that. No Jefferson, and Calvin in?

265 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:41:34am

Lemme, add, too, that assimilating new-comers to life in these United States and Texas will be complicated greatly if they don't see that their culture has ALWAYS been a part of the culture of their new home.

Precisely to the degree that a Tex-Mex identifies himself or herself as a Tex-Mex, and not as a "mexican living in Texas", is the degree to which he or she identifies as an American. Best thing to do to assimilate newcomers is to show them they're not new, just the latest ones to come to the land.

Texas changed my mind on a lot of my immigration concerns, and what I've seen and read about New Mexico confirms it - these places make some of the best Americans anywhere.

266 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:42:14am

re: #262 marjoriemoon

I disagree. The subject of the article shifts after the second paragraph. They started off writing about World History, then went on to discuss racism in regards to Sociology.

267 Millicent Islam  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:43:11am

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yup, they will.

updinged, because with the financial situation in CA i really don't know if they can still have the pull that TX does w/r/t textbooks.

In any case this is far more than a TX problem, and I don't understand why some others don't grasp that. Recusancy has a good link at the first comment in the thread above.

268 Ghost of Insanity  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:43:20am

re: #208 Dragon_Lady

If they try that here in California the Atheists would file a lawsuit the size of Texas so fast it would make a tornado look like it's standing still. We have so many of them here it's not funny and they really squawk when any type of religion is introduced into the school curriculum. When I see whats happening in Texas, I'm almost glad of the loud voice our Atheists have. Almost, but not quit.

It's interesting that atheism is looked at as something to be tolerated, but only under certain circumstances. Are we the last 'indian', 'black', 'gay' (all groups subject to the line 'some of my best friends are "___"') group of America?

How many atheists or agnostics do we have here?
Have you ever had to hide your atheism/agnosticism?

Just some interesting questions.

I've been an atheist for about 40 years and have had to hide it several times from people to avoid serious fights. How about you?

269 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:43:55am

Look, maybe these guys are racists. All I am claiming is that the article does not demonstrate that.

270 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:46:08am

re: #269 mr. hammer

Look, maybe these guys are racists. All I am claiming is that the article does not demonstrate that.

Except for the hispanic woman with 25+ years serving on the board accusing them of racism. I can see where that can be easily missed.

271 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:46:27am

Ice? What is your problem with my #266?

272 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:47:22am

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That she accused them, doesn't prove anything Kragar! This is all politics!

273 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:47:23am

re: #266 mr. hammer

I disagree. The subject of the article shifts after the second paragraph. They started off writing about World History, then went on to discuss racism in regards to Sociology.

I see where you saw it in the first paragraph. But it doesn't change my point. Wherever they are teaching it, doesn't matter. It's what they aren't teaching that matters. It's discriminatory and doesn't represent their own population.

274 Ghost of Insanity  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:47:54am

re: #239 Aceofwhat?

because it's the only arena in which 'economies of scale' make sense.

you have already said that more than one publisher will continue to exist. ergo, more than one version of math, history, language, etc. textbooks will continue to exist.

All of them largely biased towards Texas. Obdi isn't saying there is only one publisher, he's saying all of them take Texas into consideration when putting together a text because of the costs involved in publishing 50 different texts, especially with many of the markets so small (ND, SD). Many will add sections specific to a market, but the core of the book's text is based on the largest markets.

275 Millicent Islam  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:48:08am

re: #268 b_sharp

It's interesting that atheism is looked at as something to be tolerated, but only under certain circumstances. Are we the last 'indian', 'black', 'gay' (all groups subject to the line 'some of my best friends are "___"') group of America?

How many atheists or agnostics do we have here?
Have you ever had to hide your atheism/agnosticism?

Just some interesting questions.

I've been an atheist for about 40 years and have had to hide it several times from people to avoid serious fights. How about you?

We have quite a few atheists and agnostics here, and at least one Deist. I'm an atheist myself. I'm pretty certain everyone has a story about needing to hide it at one point or another.
In my case it's been mostly because I was interacting with religious people who would take any expression of my own beliefs as an attack on their belief system, even though it is not.

It's interesting that many religious people have no problem understanding the concept of tolerating other religions and understand that they should show respect towards them, but extend no such tolerance or respect towards those who simply lack religious beliefs.

276 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:48:27am

re: #272 mr. hammer

That she accused them, doesn't prove anything Kragar! This is all politics!

Eh, in my experience, that kinda charge doesn't get thrown around at the state level here. Worse than crying fire in a crowded theatre.

277 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:48:53am

re: #272 mr. hammer

That she accused them, doesn't prove anything Kragar! This is all politics!

Yeah, you can't take the word of a woman who has worked with these people so many years. What would she know?

278 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:49:56am

re: #273 marjoriemoon

Marjorie, I disagree. As I read the article, somebody moved to require by law the inclusion of the names of some MOH recipients in a WORLD history class. That motion was rejected. That's not proof of discrimination or racism or religious fanaticism or any other such thing.

279 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:50:38am

re: #277 wrenchwench

Yeah, you can't take the word of a woman who has worked with these people so many years. What would she know?

Must be her time of the month or something.

///

280 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:50:43am

re: #255 Obdicut

Do you fucking understand that Texas has already been warping the textbooks for years and we've already had to put up with this shit? Yes, the other states do buy the textbooks coming out of Texas, for economic goddamn reasons, rather than requesting special fucking editions.

It's already fucking happened, Ace. I am getting fucking beyond fed up here.

I'm taking a break.

you ought to. this is fiction. 10th graders are studying from myriad different textbooks this year in their world or us history class (i forget which is taught in 10th grade).

they will study from myriad different textbooks in 2011.

we can deplore the choices made by Texas and any other state who CHOOSES the same silly curricula without making economically untrue statements like "this will drastically affect students across the country".

281 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:51:06am

re: #251 Guanxi88

I don't presume to speak for Lidane or the other Texans here, but this kinda sh*t ought to be outlawed as a matter of Texas pride. Makes the whole damned state look bad.

The town I'm moving to is named after its MEXICAN governor who was a HERO of the War for Texas Independence, who led Mexican, Texican, and Irish cavalry units against the Mexican army. Man's a damned hero here, and anyone who tries to suppress the role of Hispanics in Texas history is sure to run afoul not only of the Hispanic population here, but also of every right-thinking Texan, regardless of party or religion.

Amen to that. Some of us have had our families in this state for a long, long time, and even have Texas history in our blood. Diminishing that, or the role of Hispanics here is offensive and insulting.

282 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:51:14am

re: #222 LudwigVanQuixote

Brilliant but you better 'splain why you have that avatar clearly or the stalker types will use it as evidence of your commie ways.

Done. Lapidary enough for you?

283 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:51:16am

re: #277 wrenchwench

C'mon wrench. Show me something more substantive here.

284 Ghost of Insanity  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:51:42am

re: #280 Aceofwhat?

you ought to. this is fiction. 10th graders are studying from myriad different textbooks this year in their world or us history class (i forget which is taught in 10th grade).

they will study from myriad different textbooks in 2011.

we can deplore the choices made by Texas and any other state who CHOOSES the same silly curricula without making economically untrue statements like "this will drastically affect students across the country".

read my #274

285 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:52:19am

re: #274 b_sharp

All of them largely biased towards Texas. Obdi isn't saying there is only one publisher, he's saying all of them take Texas into consideration when putting together a text because of the costs involved in publishing 50 different texts, especially with many of the markets so small (ND, SD). Many will add sections specific to a market, but the core of the book's text is based on the largest markets.

that makes absolutely no sense. only a CEO with the intelligence of a bag of hair would alter their entire range of textbooks to chase one crowded market at the expense of the rest of the country.

286 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:52:38am

re: #281 Lidane

Amen to that. Some of us have had our families in this state for a long, long time, and even have Texas history in our blood. Diminishing that, or the role of Hispanics here is offensive and insulting.

DAMN! If I had that kinda history in my background, I'd wear a t-shirt informing others of the fact.

287 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:52:55am

re: #283 mr. hammer

C'mon wrench. Show me something more substantive here.

Or, conversely, you could provide evidence discrediting the claims of racism and revisionism. We'll wait.

288 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:54:07am

re: #268 b_sharp

How many atheists or agnostics do we have here?
Have you ever had to hide your atheism/agnosticism?

I'm atheist. Been one for about the last 20 years. Longer, if I'm really honest about it, since I really stopped believing in most of it when I was in middle school.

The only time I hide it is with my family, but only in terms of the extent of my atheism. I just tell them I don't go to church anymore, which is bad enough in their eyes, but they just consider me a lapsed Catholic. I don't correct them, so I can avoid any major arguments.

289 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:54:30am

re: #287 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gimme a break. I can't prove that, and wouldn't presume. All I am claiming is that the article proves nothing.

290 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:55:34am

re: #283 mr. hammer

C'mon wrench. Show me something more substantive here.

What do you want? Where do you see racism? Anywhere?

291 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:56:06am

re: #274 b_sharp

50 versions is silly. But 2 or 4 is no big deal. I think we have some over reactions here. I'll cheerfully eat my words if Calvin replaces Jefferson at JEFFERSON HIGH SCHOOL.

292 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:56:27am

re: #284 b_sharp

read my #274

it made less sense than the nonsensical "one publisher is going to get all this business and crowd out the others".

you are saying that multiple publishers will compete for this business. sure, but at the expense of the rest of the US market? nope. they know they can't sell this crazy everywhere.

293 Lidane  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:56:49am

re: #286 Guanxi88

DAMN! If I had that kinda history in my background, I'd wear a t-shirt informing others of the fact.

Heh. I ended up making my Texas History teacher's day back in middle school when I told her he was an ancestor of mine. She loved it. He's a direct ancestor on my dad's side.

It also inspired my mom to finally get her PhD, since I brought the book home, pointed at him and asked if we were related. She said yes, I asked how. Her dissertation was the explanation, since it ended up being my family tree, going back centuries. It was awesome. :D

294 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:57:19am

re: #289 mr. hammer

Gimme a break. I can't prove that, and wouldn't presume. All I am claiming is that the article proves nothing.

Except when taken in the context of previous information about the BOE and the background of its members and its actions over the years.

Read up on the subject, look at the background and come up with an arguement before charging in like the fucking "ITS NOT TRUE" fairy.

295 blueraven  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:57:46am

re: #46 Thanos

If I see a Texas public school listed on a resume in the future I am sure going to have to question that applicant's knowledge in full depth to make sure they can handle a tech job.

(since I hire in technical fields I have series of technical questions I go through that get progressively harder if you answer the initial ones successfully. Too many applicants nowadays will put down that they are are proficient with tech x, y, or z because one time they happened to see a server that had that app or tech on it... )

The problem is, this will not only affect Texas school children. Thankfully, though I live in TX, my youngest graduated high school last year. Everyone knows that text books nationwide are based on Texas guidelines due to the large number of TX students.

For those of you who think this won't affect your kids, think again.

296 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:57:50am

re: #290 wrenchwench

That's not the issue. Mr. C gave us a big introduction to this article - filled with nasty Texas Neanderthals and racists and religious fanatics, and I say it doesn't live up to the hype. That's all.

297 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 11:59:10am

re: #294 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And I say read what this article actually says, before you presume to curse at people you don't know.

298 Kragar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:00:53pm

re: #297 mr. hammer

And I say read what this article actually says, before you presume to curse at people you don't know.

I did, I know the background, and I'll continue to express my opinions as I damn well please.

299 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:01:55pm

re: #278 mr. hammer

From the article

The board had rejected an effort to include the names of two Hispanic Medal of Honor recipients and one black recipient in lessons for a world history class, but agreed to revisit the amendment for an American history class.

This is the Medal of Honor? It's an honor to a solider who bravely serves his country so yes, it probably would be more appropriate for American History. But Berlanga distrusts them. Someone said she'd been on the board 25 years? That's pert near a lifetime. (Using Texas lingo).

I'm actually disappointed she walked out. She should have stayed. I'd like to hear her side of the story.

It also approved an amendment that deletes a requirement that sociology students “explain how institutional racism is evident in American society.”

That bit I don't understand.

300 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:02:01pm

re: #298 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And so will I. But you'll not find me cursing at the others in this playground.

301 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:02:57pm

re: #268 b_sharp

I love and married a heathen atheist. Does that count? Eh, we can't all be perfect.

302 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:04:08pm

re: #299 marjoriemoon

Good Heaven's, Marjorie! You're not agreeing with me are you? Beware the rain of down dings and cursing.

303 Ghost of Insanity  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:05:24pm

re: #285 Aceofwhat?

that makes absolutely no sense. only a CEO with the intelligence of a bag of hair would alter their entire range of textbooks to chase one crowded market at the expense of the rest of the country.

Change their books?

They select authors who will sell well in large markets. Authors will direct their work towards where they will make the most money.

In books like math, where there is little wiggle room, a nation wide book from each publisher will be available, but in the social sciences, history, even science like biology where the basics are not the entire book, aiming the book at a large market like Texas, rather than losing sales to another publisher who does, makes money.

304 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:10:34pm

re: #302 mr. hammer

Good Heaven's, Marjorie! You're not agreeing with me are you? Beware the rain of down dings and cursing.

Oh hush!

In this instance, it looks like they are batting the ball into another court for the time being, but I can't say. I do hope that Ms. Berlanga continues to go to the meetings and fight for what's right.

What is clear from the middle of the article is that Texas social studies are reflecting more religious and rightwing political views. Charles has oodles of articles here on it. People have been asking the Board to include more Hispanics and they aren't doing it. So it's a problem.

305 mr. hammer  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:12:38pm

re: #304 marjoriemoon

Fair enough Marjorie. That's all anybody had to say instead of cursing at me and down dinging my every comment. I'll leave it alone and go back to work now.

306 Ghost of Insanity  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:15:37pm

re: #291 Rightwingconspirator

50 versions is silly. But 2 or 4 is no big deal. I think we have some over reactions here. I'll cheerfully eat my words if Calvin replaces Jefferson at JEFFERSON HIGH SCHOOL.

That was my point, publishers want to put together a text that will sell well, the fewer changes/versions the better. The simplest way is to publish a core with a single added chapter for each region. If they put together one text and ignore Texas standards they lose not just Texas, but any other State that follows Texas' lead, just like they would lose any State that rejects Texas' lead if they went all Texas.

Perhaps we need to actually ask a publisher how many different texts they produce for the country and how much of the text is changed for each region. We should also ask them directly how much Texas impacts their choices.

307 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:44:23pm

re: #268 b_sharp

I'm a hardcore atheist who finds Dawkins a little weak on the subject of atheism.

308 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:44:44pm

re: #306 b_sharp

FYI, I am a publisher, or rather, the company I work for is. Which is why this conversation is driving me fucking crazy.

309 middy  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:44:51pm

re: #218 lostlakehiker

Northern states do better than southern. Even poor northern states, such as the Dakotas. Correlation with school spending is negative.

With notable exceptions. Tennessee does quite well, while Maine does poorly.

310 middy  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 12:48:29pm

re: #230 marjoriemoon

God bless the atheists :)

Thanks for nothing. ;)

311 Ghost of Insanity  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:15:59pm

re: #307 Obdicut

I'm a hardcore atheist who finds Dawkins a little weak on the subject of atheism.

I was much like Dawkins and PZ before meeting (meating? (little joke there)) my wife, and for a few years after. She taught me not all of the religious are nut cases and should be treated as humans. I still have trouble with Bible thumpers and will argue with them until they either give up or smack me with their IXOYE fish.

312 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:23:16pm

re: #311 b_sharp

I have no trouble treating the religious well, and I really like the non-real god concept promoted by Don Cupitt.

[Link: www.doncupitt.com...]

313 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:05:09pm

Okay I'll post this in a couple places, but as we oppose the Texas Textbook Massacre- Lets each who cares enough to post here call our local district and beg, plead, insist these changes not hit the schools in (fill in your town). Grass roots folks, take 5 minutes.

Thanks!

314 Petero1818  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:15:36pm

re: #58 Jeff In Ohio

On the subject of revisionism, Ben GLeck, er, I mean Glen Beck revisits McCarthy:

I watched that same segment. One of the weirder things I have ever seen. He actually suggested that current anti globalist protestors at global G20 and G8 meetings were the modern equivalent of kristallnacht. It was absurd. More and more I am convinced that he believes that he can say anything he wants without accountability simply because no rational or sane person can follow his "lectures". He makes no sense. It is one faulty syllogism after another.

315 lostlakehiker  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:35:30pm

It also approved an amendment that deletes a requirement that sociology students “explain how institutional racism is evident in American society.”
How would one answer that honestly and truthfully? The past includes all sorts of institutional racism against blacks, Chinese, Irish, Japanese, Hispanics, depending on time and place.

Today, the public institutions are rigorously free of institutional racism against blacks, Irish, and Hispanics, but California's University admissions standards today are written with an eye to holding down the fraction of ethnic Chinese and Japanese admitted. What else can that be called, but institutional racism?

It's tough to argue that the schools are as a matter of public policy racist. The entire chain of command in school systems such as Washington, D.C. is liberal and/or minority. If results are rotten, and rotten compared to results for comparably socioeconomically placed minorities elsewhere, it's because of institutional stupidity, not racism. Or take Kansas City, where they are now closing many schools. A federal judge, in a decades old discrimination case, ordered palatial amenities for inner city schools, to the point that rural Missouri had to make do on about $2000 per student per year, while KC got more like $30 000. When this failed to close the achievement gap, he ordered spending doubled yet again in KC, and ordered the state to levy whatever taxes it might take to meet that new spending goal. This order was shot down by the Supreme Court, which held that judges do not have the authority to levy taxes. But that's not institutional racism.

If we're talking about "Institutions" as including large corporations and major churches, then we can find instances of institutional racism from more recent times. The Mormon Church has only recently changed its stance on race. Evidence of institutional racism in corporations is thin. While it is true that the fraction of minorities in high spots is small, the fraction of whites in the NBA is small compared to the general population, but the reasons for that go more to merit than to discrimination.


So, today, the answer would be that while there are racist private clubs, and private individuals hold views all over the map on matters of race, in the institutional sphere, today's victims are few, and the actual victims of institutional racism are entirely a different group from the group the authors of this school requirement probably had in mind.

316 What, me worry?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:49:24pm

re: #315 lostlakehiker

All I kept thinking while reading that was it's a shame they're dropping the course, because that would have been an A paper!

Not that I agree with you. I don't, but it's a great example of the discourse they're NOT going to have in the schools. I think a teacher would be fine with a student thinking it didn't exist if they had a reason why. Not having these courses, not asking these questions, limits a student's critical thinking skills. Or are they only going to include the material where they know what the "right" answer will be?

317 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:03:50pm

re: #315 lostlakehiker

That's a total whitewash.

318 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:18:42pm

re: #106 Lidane

OT -
But i must evangelize Artz Ribs in austin...

319 lostlakehiker  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:52:15pm

re: #317 Obdicut

That's a total whitewash.

Oh? Even a stopped watch is right twice a day. The Texas school board curriculum committee has gone off the deep end. Most of what they're doing is indefensible. But this particular item has its logic.

What institutional racism? Where? Documented, solid evidence for the thing is just not there, not as regards the last decade or two, except with regard to Asians. No good saying that the differential in economic success proves institutional racism. After all, if Indians (subcontinent immigrants) are doing better economically than WASPS, does that prove that all society is rigged in favor of that group of immigrants. Hardly. As Thomas Sowell has explained in several books, there can very well be other explanations.

There are indeed policies that hurt minorities badly, and they're State policies. Tenure for incompetent teachers, for example. But those policies have been adopted with a view to helping minorities, or if not that, then at any rate adopted by the party that is officially deemed clean of any taint of institutional racism. The policies are counterproductive, but absent proof that those who have forged these policies did it for subtle racist reasons, charging "institutional racism" is unjustified.

320 eneri  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:16:58am

I think these idiots are just that, idiots, with a touch of xenophobia. I am embarrassed for my state.

321 Joven  Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:44:48pm

If you don't want the Know Nothing Texan standard, why not opt for the Californian one?


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