A Closer Look at the ‘Climategate’ Computer Code

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An excellent post at Deep Climate looks into the exaggerated and false claims being made about the computer code released along with those stolen “Climategate” emails: McClimategate continues: Yet another false accusation from McIntyre and McKitrick.

How do they get away with it? That’s the inevitable question as I examine one of the most specious – and despicable – “climategate” allegations from contrarians, namely the oft-repeated claim that climate scientists at East Anglia University’s Climate Research Unit inappropriately adjusted certain tree-ring temperature proxy data to provide a better match with instrumental temperature record.

In an extraordinary interview with FoxNews in December of last year, economist Ross McKitrick alleged that scientists were “faking the match” between proxy and temperature data. McKitrick averred this was “not being honest with the reader” and even invoked a comparison to falsified experimental medical research. Stephen McIntyre of ClimateAudit recently claimed that the “artificial correction” seemed “to have entered the CRU toolkit” (in his submission to the U.K. parliamentary committee examining allegations arising from stolen CRU emails, no less).

Yet a close examination of the computer code and ensuing research bears out the key contention of the firm rebuttals from East Anglia University, as well as CRU scientist Tim Osborn, namely that the specific adjustments in question were for private exploration only and never incorporated into CRU scientists’ subsequent published temperature reconstructions. So, once again, McIntyre and McKitrick have made odious and unfounded accusations, based on non-existent evidence. They should withdraw these specious allegations immediately. [Don’t hold your breath. – ed.]

And here’s a quote from the submission to the UK Parliament by CRU paleoclimatologist Tim Osborn, that makes the deceptive nature of the claims about the computer code even clearer:

8. CRU’s Computer Code is Fit For Purpose and Does Not Reveal Secret Manipulation of Data

A small sample of my computer programming code was included in the disclosed files. It has been argued that comments within the code such as “Fudge factor” and “shouldn’t usually plot past 1960 because these will be artificially adjusted to look closer to the real temperatures” demonstrate that data have been manipulated in an inappropriate and undisclosed manner. My programs that were highlighted on BBC Newsnight that contained comments such as these were not the basis for any published article or dataset, and thus are not a valid indication of inappropriate data manipulation. If we do need to make adjustments to data that are scientifically justified, then we state clearly both the justification and the adjustment when we publish the article or dataset. In relation to the second of the two highlighted comments, it was simply a note that should have read “…because these will have been artificially adjusted…” to remind myself that I had applied an adjustment to this particular set of data (for the purposes of exploring the consequences of recent trends for the calibration of tree-ring temperature proxies) and that if I did plot them it would give a false impression of the agreement between tree-rings and temperature because of the adjustment. Thus, rather than indicating that an undisclosed adjustment would be made, it was a warning to avoid using adjusted data without realising it. To re-iterate: I have made no adjustments to data except those that are scientifically justified and stated in published papers. [Emphasis added].

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441 comments
1 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:48:48pm

Glad I saw this before Shabbos.

In otherwords, the journals are actually what they say they are. If you were to actually read any of the published papers, the scientists always, and I do mean always discuss in detail the results that they got and the methods used to get them.

Part of what makes these claims so infuriating is that it allows people who claim they are "just concerned about the science" to endlessly drivel away and create a false impression that where there is smoke there is fire. The smoke only comes from those dishonest sources.

The truth is that there never was a fire and that all of the data and methodology was always clearly reported in vastly greater detail than the typical person could understand.

I do not mean the last sentence as an insult, rather as a statement of fact. The average person does not know multivariate statistics.

Yet if one did, not only is it all there, but it is all there with the math, and always has been.

The false slanders coming from those who would falely create a scandal have never been anything other than elaborate lies and smears that work because of the hubris of the unqualified to assume that they know what data analysis is without even looking at the papers that give the analysis.

And here I am just going to say it. Periodically you hear this vile smear directed at the data and its analysis from cowardly and incompetent to discuss it hypocrites on these very pages.

Periodically, I present them with the papers that answer in detail all of their supposed complaints. The papers always have the methodology - always.
Yet, it is far more "scientific" to whine about science without knowing it or reading it, and then claim to be doing so for the sake of "proper science."

It is dishonest scumbaggery at its most hypocritical.

2 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:50:41pm

This is for you, Walter.

Please note that I said over and over that it was a mistake to make assumptions about this code. Now you have egg on your face, because the code was NEVER USED to produce actual temperature reconstructions -- it was for purposes of calibration.

This is what happens when you fall for the bullshit. Whoever assembled this collection of emails and code carefully designed it to trick gullible people, and you fell for it.

3 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:51:42pm

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote
Love it when Charles exposes the BS!

Have a good Shabbos, and weekend Ludwig!

4 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:51:43pm

re: #2 Charles

This is for you, Walter.

Please note that I said over and over that it was a mistake to make assumptions about this code. Now you have egg on your face, because the code was NEVER USED to produce actual temperature reconstructions -- it was for purposes of calibration.

This is what happens when you fall for the bullshit. Whoever assembled this collection of emails and code carefully designed it to trick gullible people, and you fell for it.

In a very short time, he will find something else to whine about and claim is for the good of the science.

5 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:52:09pm

re: #3 Rightwingconspirator

Love it when Charles exposes the BS!

Have a good Shabbos, and weekend Ludwig!

You too my friend.

See you later all, this time I am out of here.

6 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:54:30pm

Good Shabbos, Ludwig and all my other Jewish Lizard peeps.

7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:55:44pm

re: #6 SanFranciscoZionist

Shabbat Shalom, y'all.

(is that right?)

8 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:58:09pm

re: #2 Charles

This is for you, Walter.

Please note that I said over and over that it was a mistake to make assumptions about this code. Now you have egg on your face, because the code was NEVER USED to produce actual temperature reconstructions -- it was for purposes of calibration.

This is what happens when you fall for the bullshit. Whoever assembled this collection of emails and code carefully designed it to trick gullible people, and you fell for it.

Thank you Charles.

And when you can post some information about the generation of the CRU TS 3.0 data set, we will be on the same page.

Dr. Osborn's memorandum to the UK Parliament was in regard to code that was discussed in creating CRUTEM3...

[Link: www.publications.parliament.uk...]

My discussion on LGF and the information in the document from Ian Harris was in regards to the creation of the newest version of the CRU Time Slice data set, CRU TS 3.0.

But, I am certainly open to and further information you have.

9 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:59:18pm

Happy happy Friday!

Interesting... how some people will purposely lie through omission etc. None of us are pure, all of us have done this at times either knowingly, or as coached by our built in biases. But those people who do for hire -- well now those are like the scum sucking bottom feeders of US politics.

10 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:00:56pm

re: #8 Walter L. Newton

Sorry, man. Your credibility on this is shot.

11 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:02:16pm

re: #10 Charles

Sorry, man. Your credibility on this is shot.

I stand by my comment at re: #8 Walter L. Newton...

12 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:02:51pm

re: #9 Thanos

Happy happy Friday!

Interesting... how some people will purposely lie through omission etc. None of us are pure, all of us have done this at times either knowingly, or as coached by our built in biases. But those people who do for hire -- well now those are like the scum sucking bottom feeders of US politics.

This entire false scandal was based on stolen documents, deliberately selected to trick people. It worked.

And yes, it was almost certainly done by people in the pay of the energy industries, trying to sabotage the Copenhagen summit.

13 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:02:54pm

re: #2 Charles

This is for you, Walter.

Please note that I said over and over that it was a mistake to make assumptions about this code. Now you have egg on your face, because the code was NEVER USED to produce actual temperature reconstructions -- it was for purposes of calibration.

This is what happens when you fall for the bullshit. Whoever assembled this collection of emails and code carefully designed it to trick gullible people, and you fell for it.

Thus Charles puts the lie to those who claim he threatens and bans instead of arguing. Here, he went and found the facts when speaking to a long time poster, and at all times civility was maintained. Don't believe the propaganda, Charles Johnson is an honest purveyor of information.

14 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:04:43pm

re: #5 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #6 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

An interesting development in my office as my boss did the (forgive me for likely spelling error) Tefillin prayers, as he has each Friday for the last year or so.
Very interesting and uplifting.

Anyway as we are back to AGW, confirmed again-I have been reading all I could find on the Hyperion reactors. I can not find a single one installed anywhere!

This leads to my point-Most of us can not or should not wait for out government to change policies on AGW. In fact it is time to verbally and legally assault the rules and regulations that stop us individuals from installing green tech. Getting a cistern or gray water system approved in LA is a nightmare. A paper monster that will seem to make your carbon footprint for the permits appalling. We should be browbeating the CC&R's, the water regulators, the zoning authorities. Other wise as Ludwig would point out Billions will die. Not this decade. But we are learning more...

15 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:05:06pm

Anything coming out of the woodwork yet?

16 windsagio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:06:03pm

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Apropos wiki link.

17 sattv4u2  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:06:06pm

re: #13 Dark_Falcon

Thus Charles puts the lie to those who claim he threatens and bans instead of arguing. Here, he went and found the facts when speaking to a long time poster, and at all times civility was maintained. Don't believe the propaganda, Charles Johnson is an honest purveyor of information

well ,, almost

.re: #4 LudwigVanQuixote

In a very short time, he will find something else to whine about and claim is for the good of the science.

18 windsagio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:06:41pm

re: #13 Dark_Falcon

Sometimes I think he puts up with extra from people just to prove that very point :p

19 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:07:54pm

re: #6 SanFranciscoZionist

Good Shabbos, Ludwig and all my other Jewish Lizard peeps.

Sorry, to poke my nose in where it probably doesn't belong, but what is Shabbos?

Curious atheists want to know.

20 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:08:10pm

re: #12 Charles

Not intending to get personal, but as you live in a gated community you face strict CC&R's. Could you and your neighbors install solar, cisterns etc if you got the city permits?

I'd Love to hear from anyone in a gated residential zone on this.

21 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:08:55pm

re: #20 Rightwingconspirator

Not intending to get personal, but as you live in a gated community you face strict CC&R's. Could you and your neighbors install solar, cisterns etc if you got the city permits?

I'd Love to hear from anyone in a gated residential zone on this.

I don't know - I haven't looked into that yet.

22 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:09:03pm

re: #19 b_sharp

It's a time during with Jews are prohibited from bowling.

23 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:09:19pm

re: #22 Obdicut

During which. PIMF. Sorry.

24 windsagio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:09:55pm

re: #23 Obdicut

I like the first one, it implies that they can bowl on their own all they want >

25 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:10:18pm

re: #22 Obdicut

It's a time during with Jews are prohibited from bowling.

Cool.

Brawling isn't really a good thi...

Oh, bowling. Time to put away the 10 balls is it?

26 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:11:22pm

re: #17 sattv4u2

Correction: Between Charles and Walter, civility was maintained at all times.

27 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:11:49pm

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Any AGW paper that was published without the methodology would be laughed at mercilessly, and the journal would be embarrassed as hell.

Science is probably the most self-regulating field on earth. If media self-regulated in the same way that science did, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because the climategate 'scandal' would have been what it should have been: a report on people trying to warp the political process by stealing private information and slandering scientists.

28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:13:46pm

LVQ is honoring Shabbos.

Will not be here to defend himself.

29 sattv4u2  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:13:47pm

re: #21 Charles

I don't know - I haven't looked into that yet.

wow ,, be careful

I lived in one in Greensboro N.C. for a year. Didn't read the covenant prior (skimmed over it ,, never in depth) I got fined for painting my own front door,,, the SAME color it already was.

Seems as if any outdoor painting had to have
A) prior approval of the board (by this they meant at a meeting, I had to provide a sample of the paint on a piece of material that was the same to be painted)
B) be done only by a (very short list) of preferred painting contractors
C) be done only during the hours of 9 a.m. till 4 p.m. Mondays thru Fridays
D) no ladders, tarps or material of any kind left in sight outside of those hours

I WANTED TO PAINT MY FRAKKIN FRONT DOOR,,,,,,, MYSELF

30 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:13:47pm

re: #26 Dark_Falcon

Correction: Between Charles and Walter, civility was maintained at all times.

And on my part, I intend to keep it that way.

31 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:13:52pm

re: #21 Charles

My point is that eco-impact footprint reduction deserves a bottom up approach, and waiting for top down just may not be wise. I realize my point has zero bearing on big energy production etc. But hey, a couple million residences are out there. I'll speculate you (or most) would have a wrangle on your hands to get approvals.

I feel more ready to get to work than debate the"ifs" about AGW. Much more.

32 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:13:58pm

It amazes me how anti-AGW-science has become a plank in the far right ideology.

Who would have thought it 20 years ago? Yes, the RR always looked upon materialistic science with disdain, and the paid-by-corporate-sponsor politicians always played fast and loose with science, yet at least for the latter it was all about who paid the bills, not about the "truth".

33 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:15:25pm

re: #32 freetoken

It amazes me how anti-AGW-science has become a plank in the far right ideology.

Who would have thought it 20 years ago? Yes, the RR always looked upon materialistic science with disdain, and the paid-by-corporate-sponsor politicians always played fast and loose with science, yet at least for the latter it was all about who paid the bills, not about the "truth".

I wonder if it will become part of someone's campaign platform.

34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:16:13pm

re: #29 sattv4u2

S'what you get for being a gazillionaire.

You are supposed to have people to do those things for you.

35 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:18:20pm

re: #28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LVQ is honoring Shabbos.

Will not be here to defend himself.

And I will not be bringing him up further till he returns.

36 sattv4u2  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:18:40pm

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

S'what you get for being a gazillionaire.

You are supposed to have people to do those things for you.

no ,,, the community I lived is was full of wannabees. The houses, size and price wise were very modest,, ESPECIALLY considering it was Greensboro and not Chapel Hill or somewhere withing the triangle

37 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:19:33pm

re: #32 freetoken

re: #33 Walter L. Newton

Honestly there's a lot of knee jerk anti environmentalism on the right, and a lot of "environmental overstatement" on the left. So there's bias on both sides of the issue, I used to write anti-AGW alarmism stuff simply because for me there are higher priorities, but with the pro AGW visible effects evidence mounting (which I wasn't expecting as much of until well later in this century) I can't bring myself to do even the alarmism smackdowns anymore.

38 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:20:49pm

On LVQ... imagine how much discipline it took him to walk away from this one.

Good on you LVQ!

39 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:24:22pm

re: #33 Walter L. Newton

Didn't a Tea Party group already list it as a requirement?

40 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:25:40pm

All the stories debunking "climategate" are very interesting reads to those of us who think critically. Unfortunately, the damage has been done. The perception, right or wrong, that data was manipulated and things were covered up is out there and being trumpeted by a myriad of talking heads. To the vast swaths of ideologically driven denizens, no amount of data is going to sway their opinion one way or the other. This applies to the left as much as it does to the right. Until the country learns to think critically and quits listening to the vast majority of main stream media outlets and talk radio, the AGW problem will not be addressed in any meaningful way. Sure there will be politically driven solutions attempted but nothing will come close to solving the problem. Call me a pessimist but I don't see much happening in this arena when most of the public doesn't have time to properly research the issue and those who seem to have higher levels of intelligence spend all their time and energy yelling at each other on cable shows. The only real people we should be listening to in this argument are the scientists but until folks pick up peer reviewed scientific journals and actually get the facts, the voices of the smartest scientists on the planet will remain silent. It sickens me to no end that politics is such a driving force in a problem that affects the left and the right equally but unless something drastic happens, the issue is doomed to be endlessly batted back and forth like a political tennis ball with no real solution in sight.

41 Racer X  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:26:11pm

re: #33 Walter L. Newton

I wonder if it will become part of someone's campaign platform.

I can see this happening. The GOP is in disarray and pandering for votes wherever they can get them.

42 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:26:29pm

re: #37 Thanos

The strident reactionary nature that AGW now engenders among the far right is pretty amazing. They've become quite emotionally invested into the whole concept.

43 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:26:33pm

AGW is on the ropes popularity wise, whoever has tried to compromise the science in order to sway opinion....it seems like it worked

so they need to change the perception of the problem....make energy independence and efficient renewables a matter of national security...go that route

44 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:27:20pm

re: #39 freetoken

Didn't a Tea Party group already list it as a requirement?

I really don't know. I don't give much attention to the Tea PArties, or Republicans in general. And I am not being snarky about it, I just don't know.

Wouldn't surprise me. My comment was in effect to solicit responses about that possibility.

45 Racer X  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:28:06pm

re: #43 albusteve

AGW is on the ropes popularity wise, whoever has tried to compromise the science in order to sway opinion...it seems like it worked

so they need to change the perception of the problem...make energy independence and efficient renewables a matter of national security...go that route

Excellent point. And I might add Job Creation.

46 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:28:21pm

re: #12 Charles

This entire false scandal was based on stolen documents, deliberately selected to trick people. It worked.

And yes, it was almost certainly done by people in the pay of the energy industries, trying to sabotage the Copenhagen summit.

And it worked. Falsity flies and the truth comes limping after, as Pope or Swift wrote a few years back.

47 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:28:25pm

re: #32 freetoken

Anti-AGW positions are just so damn nihilistic it confused the crap out of me when people hold them. I mean, people who know better, and most of the lobbyists pushing the FUD know better, they know it really is occurring.

With Russia, we can approach an explanation: they think they stand to gain from climate change relative to the rest of the world. I have no explanation for Americans who know better, though. I certainly hope it's not a calculation of the same sort.

48 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:30:09pm

re: #45 Racer X

Excellent point. And I might add Job Creation.

connect all the dots...and presto!...problem solved...the USA will be in he export business again...world leaders in renewables, desalination, and technology

49 BenghaziHoops  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:30:37pm

My take on this
1. I've seen some powerful push back from Scientist lately on the Internet
2. We owe it to Humanity to give our brightest and Smartest Scientists the best tools possible and available.
3. Take politics out of Science.. The GOP is just demonizing scientists

And this is my own view that nobody has talked about...
If I was a scientist ( not a denier) That had a computer model that disproves AGW I'd be a Billionaire, superstar overnight in my field..And you damn well know it...
Yet..There doesn't seem to be any real scientist that has that data in a model that disproves AGW..
If I could disprove it with science I'd be publishing by Monday..
Not going to happen...The Earth is a speck of sand in the Universe..It is a rare complex habitat for Life..
God Charged us with caring for this fragile planet.. All you rightwing GOPers that think it's our right to trash the planet? Go watch Beck and stop injecting yourselves into matters of Science..

50 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:32:25pm

Being the eternal optimist I have confidence that science will win out on this over time. If nothing else the temperatures themselves will do it.

51 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:33:34pm

I still can't believe I was an AGW denier at one point....

52 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:33:52pm

re: #37 Thanos

re: #33 Walter L. Newton

Honestly there's a lot of knee jerk anti environmentalism on the right, and a lot of "environmental overstatement" on the left. So there's bias on both sides of the issue, I used to write anti-AGW alarmism stuff simply because for me there are higher priorities, but with the pro AGW visible effects evidence mounting (which I wasn't expecting as much of until well later in this century) I can't bring myself to do even the alarmism smackdowns anymore.

There's a lot of bias. If you look at the list of memo's that were submitted to the UK Parliament ahead of the 03-01-2010 hearing with Dr. Phil Jones and other climate scientist, you will find pro and con submissions from highly respected scientist to outright run of the mill environmental nut cases.

The thing to understand about these 55 submissions to Parliament is that most of them were not used in actual the actual hearing. There was a set series of questions that the Parliament gave out for public input, and a lot of those 55 responses didn't even address the points that the Parliament was asking for input on.

A good number of the responses were from people who wanted to make a point, regardless if their point was part of what the Parliament wanted input on.

If you have a full evening, here is the index of submissions to the UK Parliament...

[Link: www.publications.parliament.uk...]

And here is the actual transcript of the 03-01-2010 hearing with Dr. Phil Jones and others... which I have pointed out before, the hearing was very positive for the climate scientist etal and climate science in general...

[Link: www.publications.parliament.uk...]

53 Racer X  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:34:56pm

re: #48 albusteve

connect all the dots...and presto!...problem solved...the USA will be in he export business again...world leaders in renewables, desalination, and technology

I get so frustrated at the lack of common sense. Even when I was a denier, I still thought it was totally OK to take drastic action just because of the environmental / economic benefit.

54 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:35:30pm

MIT researchers discover new energy source

(CNN) -- It's so tiny, you can't see it with the naked eye.

Scientists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology have discovered an energy source that you can see only through a microscope.

The researchers devised a process for generating electricity using nanotechnology. They plan to refine the process in hopes of creating a new environmentally friendly battery, among other products.

It works like this: Researchers used tiny wires, known as carbon nanotubes, to create a powerful wave of energy, according to Michael Strano, and MIT associate professor of chemical engineering. He is also the senior author of a paper on this new phenomenon, published in this week's Nature Materials journal.

55 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:36:12pm

re: #26 Dark_Falcon

Correction: Between Charles and Walter, civility was maintained at all times.

A somewhat strained civility. I would say if Charles's post had omitted a few words, it would be more gracious. Like this:

This is for you, Walter.

Please note that I said over and over that it was a mistake to make assumptions about this code because the code was NEVER USED to produce actual temperature reconstructions -- it was for purposes of calibration.

Whoever assembled this collection of emails and code carefully designed it to trick gullible people.

I took out

Now you have egg on your face
This is what happens when you fall for the bullshit.
and you fell for it

Who likes to be told they have egg on their face or they are gullible enough to fall for bullshit? With the words written without this extra, I believe it makes the point in a kinder way, and perhaps more effectively since it doesn't cause defensiveness.

56 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:36:15pm

It's time for me to see my parents and face my father's anger. Wish me luck and I'll be back later.

57 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:36:43pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

It's time for me to see my parents and face my father's anger. Wish me luck and I'll be back later.

Good luck!

58 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:37:48pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

It's time for me to see my parents and face my father's anger. Wish me luck and I'll be back later.

Yikes! I feel for ya! We're with you, DF.

59 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:38:11pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

It's time for me to see my parents and face my father's anger. Wish me luck and I'll be back later.

Make your stand and be proud of it.

60 Racer X  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:38:15pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

It's time for me to see my parents and face my father's anger. Wish me luck and I'll be back later.

Hang tough my friend. Good things will come.

61 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:38:38pm

there is wealth to be generated and spread around via reducing carbon emissions...and I don't mean trading carbon credits, that's simply a scam...but real wealth through RD and manufacturing, installation, upgrades etc....knowledge, talent, production, wealth

the whole paradigm has been hijacked by pandering congressman, nimbys and activist judges....in other words a few people have the many by the balls...it could easily be different....the crisis is not CO2, the crisis is attitude

62 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:38:58pm

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

Walter, I'm honestly not that interested in the political debates on the subject anymore, I am interested in the science. Every serious TP against AGW has been torn down, and I really wanted to believe them, that the greenhouse effect wasn't going to get us until next century or the one after, but it's not looking good at all for that. It's time we start turning down coal reactors -- but we can't do that without replacing the energy with equally cheap but clean power or people starve.

If you have a point to retaining coal, oil, and gas generated energy past the half mark of the century, that's the strongest argument you can make.

63 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:39:08pm

re: #47 Obdicut

There is a very real clash of world-views going on wrt to this topic. I would not doubt that every party thinks of themselves as doing the right thing, even if some of them have to singe their conscience every now and again.

The Earth Is A Little Blue Marble In Space crowd has my greatest support. We really do live on one planet, and we now share the resources of this planet among all our tribes.

This world-view is at war with the Texas SBOE world-view, where each tribe gets their own few (or in a couple of cases, more than a few) square miles of land from God, and we are supposed to fight over them until it is proven that those who follow God the most faithfully will win.

The Russian oil and gas oligarchs are unlikely to care about the rest of the world. Russia, like Canada, is also not fully explored wrt coal resources, etc. There is a lot of money yet to be made from hydrocarbons in Russia.

64 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:40:33pm

re: #51 Varek Raith

I have just managed to talk my dad out of being one. He's a very smart and savvy man, and he swallowed it, too.

It really doesn't matter so much whether you fell for it, but whether you've managed to admit to yourself you were fooled, pick yourself up, and not humiliate yourself trying to defend a debunked position.

And this is against the background of the general anti-science sentiment in the US. People are suspicious, jealous, resentful, and probably a lot of other adjectives of scientists. Even people like engineers and programmers have strange attitudes towards science-- see the large number of engineers who are 9/11 truthers, and AGW deniers.

Science is a magesterium, it has mysteries that are not penetrable and analyzable by outsiders. That rightly makes people nervous. However, science also has very easily-understandable safeguards and checks and balances, and once people really understand how science works, they usually are reassured.

The biggest coup in science is disproving a theory. AGW denial, in general, depends on ignoring that fact as hard as they can.

65 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:41:15pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

You deserve to hold your head up high, DF. Best wishes.

66 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:42:20pm

re: #64 Obdicut

well time to move beyond that snag...if people don't want to beleive it, they don't have to....that's a secondary issue imo....what's next?

67 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:42:31pm

re: #49 HoosierHoops

Hoops, you remind me of both my grandfathers, and that's a big compliment, trust me.

Keep being you.

68 Racer X  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:43:00pm

re: #66 albusteve

...what's next?

Free government stuff?

69 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:43:26pm

re: #68 Racer X

Free government stuff?

MINE!

70 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:43:54pm

re: #62 Thanos

Walter, I'm honestly not that interested in the political debates on the subject anymore, I am interested in the science. Every serious TP against AGW has been torn down, and I really wanted to believe them, that the greenhouse effect wasn't going to get us until next century or the one after, but it's not looking good at all for that. It's time we start turning down coal reactors -- but we can't do that without replacing the energy with equally cheap but clean power or people starve.

If you have a point to retaining coal, oil, and gas generated energy past the half mark of the century, that's the strongest argument you can make.

Well then you will have to look somewhere else for that point. As someone who was in the renewable industry for 13 years, I'd certainly like to see an eventual slide to more earth friendly energy sources.

My response to you was based mainly on your statement "Honestly there's a lot of knee jerk anti environmentalism on the right, and a lot of "environmental overstatement" on the left..." I was simply supplying links to the Parliamentary memos that were part of the basis of this thread.

71 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:45:53pm

re: #64 Obdicut

Heh, I was completely fooled until I hit myself with a cluebat.

72 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:46:53pm

BTW, the hand wringing and aspersion contests over AGW can be put in context when we integrate what else is happening in American society and politics:

Paul, once the outsider, gains GOP support in Ky.

Rand Paul has run his U.S. Senate campaign as the consummate outsider: a grassroots candidate drawing support from regular Joes and Janes. Now that his candidacy has gained momentum, he's beginning to pick up support from the Republican establishment.

Once dismissed as an oddball and extremist with little chance of being elected to the Senate, Paul is now considered the man to beat in Kentucky. Paul - the son of former Republican presidential candidate and Texas congressman Ron Paul - tried to win favor among state GOP bigwigs Friday by offering his support to Republican congressional candidates in a "take back the House" rally in Lexington.

Well, Rand Paul is an oddball and an extremist.

That he is now leading the polls is a sad and scary thing.

That the establishment wants to coalesce around the leader in popularity is not surprising, but that now means the establishment is embracing oddball and extremist views.

People want what other people have or want.

73 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:48:29pm

re: #63 freetoken

Your earth as as blue marble comment reminded me of a Joni Mitchell song I love. This piece has the part I thought of:

In a highway service station
Over the month of June
Was a photograph of the earth
Taken coming back from the moon
And you couldn't see a city
On that marbled bowling ball
Or a forest or a highway
Or me here least of all
You couldn't see these cold water restrooms
Or this baggage overload
Westbound and rolling taking refuge in the roads

74 BenghaziHoops  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:48:36pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

It's time for me to see my parents and face my father's anger. Wish me luck and I'll be back later.

I know this is hard for you to hear tonight..I have never meet my birth parents.
Be kind to Pops..Show him grace..Give him his due and disarm him with Love and kindness..
Your true Honor will be the bigger Man tonight..
Sometimes the Best man is Humble..It builds character..
/And when you shut the door behind you tonight..Who really gives a shit? You won...
Kind regards

75 Racer X  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:48:58pm

re: #69 albusteve

MINE!

Thats nacho cheese!

76 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:48:59pm

sloggng thru the muck...just bumbling along
executive orders and closing the land to development....progress!

77 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:49:35pm

re: #55 Silvergirl

Am I irritated by Walter's baseless claims about the computer code? Yes, I certainly am.

Am I irritated that he claimed over and over he was going to prove the code led to false data being used in the real world, utterly failed to do that, then wouldn't retract the claim? Yes, I certainly am.

If/when Ian Harris ever surfaces and talks about the code he wrote, I have absolutely no doubt that there will be even more egg on Walter's face.

Just to be perfectly clear why I wrote what I did.

78 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:51:07pm

re: #72 freetoken

BTW, the hand wringing and aspersion contests over AGW can be put in context when we integrate what else is happening in American society and politics:

Paul, once the outsider, gains GOP support in Ky.

Well, Rand Paul is an oddball and an extremist.

That he is now leading the polls is a sad and scary thing.

That the establishment wants to coalesce around the leader in popularity is not surprising, but that now means the establishment is embracing oddball and extremist views.

People want what other people have or want.

Here's Rand Paul's new video ad, in which he compares himself to Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan.

79 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:52:09pm

re: #77 Charles

Am I irritated by Walter's baseless claims about the computer code? Yes, I certainly am.

Am I irritated that he claimed over and over he was going to prove the code led to false data being used in the real world, utterly failed to do that, then wouldn't retract the claim? Yes, I certainly am.

If/when Ian Harris ever surfaces and talks about the code he wrote, I have absolutely no doubt that there will be even more egg on Walter's face.

Just to be perfectly clear why I wrote what I did.

I'm sure you are irritated. I imagine your post about it was written with some restraint, and though DF put a blue ribbon of civility on it, I thought it wasn't entirely so.

80 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:53:14pm

re: #77 Charles

Yes, I do stand by what I have said. And I understand your points/position quite clearly.

81 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:54:11pm

Wikipedia finally unlocked the Climategate article, which now redirects here. Edit war is in full swing.

82 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:54:33pm

re: #54 Varek Raith

MIT researchers discover new energy source

Never mind all that. When do we get to the part where I get my damn nanite augmentations?!?

83 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:55:20pm

Songbirds in the US are getting smaller, and climate change is suspected as the cause.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

84 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:57:07pm

re: #78 Charles

Its techniques are intended to appeal to the same type of people who are duped by the TV preachers.

The use of iconic images of authority figures combined with images of the state-religion...

They hypocrisy of the Paulians: They skewer Lincoln when they can, but use his image to appeal to the Pavlovian-trained responses of the Tea Partiers.

85 Kruk  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:57:53pm

re: #82 Slumbering Behemoth

Never mind all that. When do we get to the part where I get my damn nanite augmentations?!?

That never ends well. Trust me.

[Link: memory-alpha.org...]

86 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:58:35pm

re: #78 Charles

This Rand Paul is Ron Paul's son, right? Ron Paul is of the virulent anti-Lincoln crowd, correct? So the son differs in this area?

87 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:58:46pm

re: #51 Varek Raith

I still can't believe I was an AGW denier at one point...

What did it take to change your mind?

88 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:01:04pm

re: #87 b_sharp

What did it take to change your mind?

Dunno 'bout my deathless colleague there (sorry! Aleutian Islander.) but I just followed the money and concluded the money to be made FROM the idea being a scam was less than the money to be made from the idea NOT being a scam, for the people pushing it.

As cynical as that.

89 BenghaziHoops  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:01:05pm

re: #87 b_sharp

What did it take to change your mind?


Remember this song?

Blinded by science, I'm on the run
Blinded by science, where do I belong?
What's in the future, has it just begun
Blinded by science, I'm on the run

I worry 'bout the world that we live in
I'm worried by all the confusion
I wonder 'bout the lies I've been reading
I wonder where this madness is leading

Is this a road going nowhere?
Or is someone leading us somewhere?
I can't believe we're here for no reason
There must be something we can believe in

Blinded by science, I'm on the run
I'm not an appliance, so don't turn me on
What's in the future, has it just begun
Blinded by science, I'm on the run

90 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:01:18pm

re: #87 b_sharp

What did it take to change your mind?

It was an "ah ha" type of thing. I noticed that the anti AGW arguments sounded a lot like creationist arguments against evolution. After this rather obvious (now that I look back) connection, I dug into the subject.
Needless to say, I felt monumentally stupid.
Live and learn.

91 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:01:40pm

re: #83 albusteve

Lots of articles on species... hitting the newswires the past few days.

The reason? We have another COP coming up. Not of the UNFCCC, but of CITES:

CITES COP15

I've posted a few articles, on tuna, etc.

The political action this time will the East Asian block, led by Japan on this issue, making a deal with various African nations.

The US and the EU want to ban bluefin tuna fishing, which the Japanese in particular is fighting. OTOH, some African nations want to sell their old stores of ivory (from Elephants), which the East Asians want to buy, but other nations, including some in Africa, want to ban. This is on old ivory (say accumulated from police raids in Africa) - killing elephants for new ivory has been banned for a while.

92 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:02:09pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

Look at you, all intellectual and stuff.

93 Alexzander  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:02:14pm

Anybody else want to discuss the unusual criticism by Clinton over the newly announced settlements?

94 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:02:28pm

re: #92 Guanxi88

Look at you, all intellectual and stuff.

Heh...no.
;)

95 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:03:30pm

re: #94 Varek Raith

Heh...no.
;)

No, comparative morphology of arguments ain't easy; that some heavy-thinking kinda stuff.

96 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:04:12pm

re: #85 Kruk

That never ends well. Trust me.

[Link: memory-alpha.org...]

Bah! Those are mech-augs, no where near the same as nanite-augs. Serves 'em right, the tin-men.

97 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:04:21pm

re: #93 Alexzander

Anybody else want to discuss the unusual criticism by Clinton over the newly announced settlements?

yeah, why not? We;ve all been a little too chummy here lately. I'm up for it.

98 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:05:12pm

re: #86 Silvergirl

This Rand Paul is Ron Paul's son, right? Ron Paul is of the virulent anti-Lincoln crowd, correct? So the son differs in this area?

Yes and since Lincoln was born in Kentucky, it would be politically expedient for Randy Paul to admire Lincoln, drink bourbon and dig bluegrass.

99 bratwurst  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:05:12pm

OT: Not content with demonizing Woody Guthrie's "This Land Is Your Land" as anti-American, Glenn Beck has picked a fight with Bruce Springsteen over his pro-communist anthem Born in the USA:

[Link: bigthink.com...]

100 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:05:58pm

re: #99 bratwurst

OT: Not content with demonizing Woody Guthrie's "This Land Is Your Land" as anti-American, Glenn Beck has picked a fight with Bruce Springsteen over his pro-communist anthem Born in the USA:

[Link: bigthink.com...]

This land is your land, this land is my land, it looks like one of us, has a forged deed to this land.

Stolen with pride from PJ O'Rourke.

101 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:06:11pm

repost...here's where the rubber hits the road, the results of climategate and AGWs poor showing through the years

SCHOOLS in three US states - Louisiana, Texas and South Dakota - have been told to teach alternatives to the scientific consensus on global warming. The moves appear to be allied to efforts to teach creationism in public schools. Such efforts have in the past been thwarted when courts ruled them unconstitutional, but those advocating the teaching of sound science may find it harder to fight misrepresentations concerning climate change.

When New Scientist asked what these were, the bill's sponsor, Don Kopp, mentioned claims commonly cited in opposition to the idea of human-induced global warming: for example, that any global warming is due to changes in solar activity. "I am against bankrupting the country to fight warming," he said, "without being sure it's true."

[Link: www.newscientist.com...]

102 Alexzander  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:06:42pm

re: #97 Guanxi88

yeah, why not? We;ve all been a little too chummy here lately. I'm up for it.

Its not an issue I'm an expert on by any means, but much of the media (including BBC) are making a big deal out of it.

103 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:06:54pm

re: #99 bratwurst

heh, what a douche.

104 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:07:33pm

re: #98 Jeff In Ohio

Right. "Lincoln" is just an image which pops up on the screen, like an eagle, or a waving flag. These images are intended to evoke emotions, thus making the viewer more susceptible to what the marketer is trying to sell.

Very much like using scantily clad women in car/motorcycle ads.

105 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:08:19pm

re: #98 Jeff In Ohio

Yes and since Lincoln was born in Kentucky, it would be politically expedient for Randy Paul to admire Lincoln, drink bourbon and dig bluegrass.

Ah hah.

But does his dad know he's promoting Lincoln? I thought Ron Paul was vocal about his Lincoln problem.

106 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:08:27pm

Did someone just say "scantily clad women"?!?!

107 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:08:48pm

re: #93 Alexzander

Anybody else want to discuss the unusual criticism by Clinton over the newly announced settlements?

Not sure if there's anything new or interesting going on....
REAGAN OUTLINES HIS STAND ON JEWISH SETTLEMENTS

Clinton Letter to Arafat Criticizes Settlements

Bush criticises settlements on Israel visit

It all seems standard procedure to me.

108 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:08:53pm

re: #102 Alexzander

Its not an issue I'm an expert on by any means, but much of the media (including BBC) are making a big deal out of it.

Well, to my mind, her voicing the Admin's opposition to it is hardly surprising - I mean, the LAST thing they need right now is to look as weak and ineffective in the Mideast as they do in trying to get their health insurance thing through Congress.

My take on it - Israelis have got every right to live in Israel in general, and Jerusalem in particular. It's no more a "settlement" than a new subdivision in Topeka.

109 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:10:03pm

re: #104 freetoken

Right. "Lincoln" is just an image which pops up on the screen, like an eagle, or a waving flag. These images are intended to evoke emotions, thus making the viewer more susceptible to what the marketer is trying to sell.

Very much like using scantily clad women in car/motorcycle ads.

What? Whenever I climb on my motorcycle, my wife changes into lingerie....

not. She's still pissed I put a solo seat on it. Really, if I want to haul around a large meat sack with a center of gravity about 30" to high, I prefer not to do it at 80mph.

110 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:10:23pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Not sure if there's anything new or interesting going on...
REAGAN OUTLINES HIS STAND ON JEWISH SETTLEMENTS

Clinton Letter to Arafat Criticizes Settlements

Bush criticises settlements on Israel visit

It all seems standard procedure to me.

and all fundamentally wrong...it's only by Israels graceful intentions there any Arabs at all in the West Bank

111 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:11:27pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Not sure if there's anything new or interesting going on...
REAGAN OUTLINES HIS STAND ON JEWISH SETTLEMENTS

Clinton Letter to Arafat Criticizes Settlements

Bush criticises settlements on Israel visit

It all seems standard procedure to me.

yeah, in general, they've all made these kinda comments. I just hate that these supposed "settlements" that are getting bitched about are in f*cking jerusalem. If you can call an Israeli house in jersualem a settlement, then you've dropped all pretense that you think Israelis can live ANYWHERE in Israel.

112 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:11:43pm

re: #109 Jeff In Ohio

What? Whenever I climb on my motorcycle, my wife changes into lingerie...

not. She's still pissed I put a solo seat on it. Really, if I want to haul around a large meat sack with a center of gravity about 30" to high, I prefer not to do it at 80mph.

you're wife is a large meat sack?....sounds interesting

113 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:12:06pm

re: #66 albusteve

well time to move beyond that snag...if people don't want to beleive it, they don't have to...that's a secondary issue imo...what's next?

Well, I actually think that people not believing in it are doing so out of an antipathy to science that needs to be addressed and corrected overall. We're seeing it in Texas, we see it in the fight against AGW, we see it all over the place.

You are entirely right that the crisis is one of attitude.

114 Racer X  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:12:36pm

re: #111 Guanxi88

yeah, in general, they've all made these kinda comments. I just hate that these supposed "settlements" that are getting bitched about are in f*cking jerusalem. If you can call an Israeli house in jersualem a settlement, then you've dropped all pretense that you think Israelis can live ANYWHERE in Israel.

Its only natural. The Jews control our government, we may as well tell them what to do.

/ ///

115 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:13:04pm

re: #110 albusteve

and all fundamentally wrong...it's only by Israels graceful intentions there any Arabs at all in the West Bank

More or less agreed. It's all window dressing anyways. Every administration throws its hat in the ring for peace in the middle east just in case it actually happens. Nobody really thinks anything is going to happen but they want to be able to claim credit just in case.

116 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:13:31pm

re: #105 Silvergirl

Ah hah.

But does his dad know he's promoting Lincoln? I thought Ron Paul was vocal about his Lincoln problem.

Meh, Romney panders to the wingnuts, the Rand panders to the center. It's way to confusing for me. Next to Bunning, anyone not blustering red faced seems rational in Kentucky.

117 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:13:56pm

Don't know if this was discussed downstairs, but it is interesting. News from the UK:

Court bars far-right party from taking new members

A British court has barred a far right, anti-immigrant political party from accepting new members until it stops discriminating against nonwhite people.

The British National Party was ordered last year to scrap its whites-only membership rules to comply with race relations laws.

The party voted last month to change its constitution so that black and Asian people could join, but critics said the changes were too vague.

A judge at the Central London County Court ruled Friday that the party was "likely to commit unlawful acts of discrimination" and ordered it to close its membership list.

The BNP opposes immigration and claims to fight for "indigenous" Britons. Leader Nick Griffin is notorious in Britain for denying the Holocaust in the past.

118 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:14:00pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

More or less agreed. It's all window dressing anyways. Every administration throws its hat in the ring for peace in the middle east just in case it actually happens. Nobody really thinks anything is going to happen but they want to be able to claim credit just in case.

It'll happen when hell freezes over.
/Cynic.

119 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:14:10pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Not sure if there's anything new or interesting going on...
REAGAN OUTLINES HIS STAND ON JEWISH SETTLEMENTS

Clinton Letter to Arafat Criticizes Settlements

Bush criticises settlements on Israel visit

It all seems standard procedure to me.

Well Obama hasn't pretended that he will do so and then not followed through on moving our embassy to Jerusalem. Who knows though, he might end up playing the Jerusalem card before the end of his second term.

120 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:14:51pm

re: #113 Obdicut

Well, I actually think that people not believing in it are doing so out of an antipathy to science that needs to be addressed and corrected overall. We're seeing it in Texas, we see it in the fight against AGW, we see it all over the place.

You are entirely right that the crisis is one of attitude.

i don't interpret these aberrations as signs of a rejection of "science" by those involved. They're not denying the overall validity of the scientific method, or the ration-technical manipulation of matter to the relief of man's estate - they think they're holding the line against some infringement on either their most closely-held and fundamental beliefs, or against yet another intrusion by government "for our own good".

In studying aberrants, it's always useful to try to figure out, not what they're doing and why, but what they THINK they're doing and why the think they're doing it.

Anthropology and pathopsychology 101.

121 bratwurst  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:15:03pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Not sure if there's anything new or interesting going on...
REAGAN OUTLINES HIS STAND ON JEWISH SETTLEMENTS

Clinton Letter to Arafat Criticizes Settlements

Bush criticises settlements on Israel visit

It all seems standard procedure to me.


Quite concur. I say this as a "Zionist" Jew and a supporter of Magen David Adom.

122 Racer X  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:15:11pm

re: #119 Thanos

Well Obama hasn't pretended that he will do so and then not followed through on moving our embassy to Jerusalem. Who knows though, he might end up playing the Jerusalem card before the end of his second term.

I just shuddered a bit.

123 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:15:19pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

KT: Thought of you when this popped up:

Cleveland Transforms Mall into Giant Greenhouse


[...]

Ultimately, Gardens Under Glass hopes to install several hydroponic units and expand the project to the furthest reaches of the shopping center.


[...]

124 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:15:22pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

It was an "ah ha" type of thing. I noticed that the anti AGW arguments sounded a lot like creationist arguments against evolution. After this rather obvious (now that I look back) connection, I dug into the subject.
Needless to say, I felt monumentally stupid.
Live and learn.

You've done better than many. That "ah ha" epiphany seldom hits most people. It seems reserved for those of us who spend time (perhaps too much) thinking.

125 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:15:34pm

re: #114 Racer X

Its only natural. The Jews control our government, we may as well tell them what to do.

/ ///

Ha! Brilliant!

126 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:16:02pm

re: #122 Racer X

I just shuddered a bit.

I don't see anything yet from the right that's going to stop it from becoming reality.

127 Racer X  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:16:35pm

re: #126 Thanos

I don't see anything yet from the right that's going to stop it from becoming reality.

Sadly, you are right.

128 Jadespring  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:16:44pm

re: #99 bratwurst

OT: Not content with demonizing Woody Guthrie's "This Land Is Your Land" as anti-American, Glenn Beck has picked a fight with Bruce Springsteen over his pro-communist anthem Born in the USA:

[Link: bigthink.com...]

I learned a Canadianized version of This Land is You Land in school and at summer camp. The first time I heard the original version I got mad because I thought Americans had stolen one our songs! :D

129 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:16:44pm
130 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:16:58pm

re: #126 Thanos

I don't see anything yet from the right that's going to stop it from becoming reality.

Well, we;ve got this to console us - there's plenty from the left that might be more effective at preventing a second BHO administration.

131 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:17:12pm

re: #116 Jeff In Ohio

Meh, Romney panders to the wingnuts, the Rand panders to the center. It's way to confusing for me. Next to Bunning, anyone not blustering red faced seems rational in Kentucky.

I don't know that much about KY. If you're truly in or from OH, then you must know a bit about your neighbor to the south.

132 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:17:15pm

re: #129 darthstar

Looks like McCain got 26 more Generals to sign on to his DADT objection
/

oops...military people, not all generals

133 Racer X  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:17:16pm

I'm gonna go watch that freaky Alice movie.

BBL

134 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:17:38pm

re: #113 Obdicut

Well, I actually think that people not believing in it are doing so out of an antipathy to science that needs to be addressed and corrected overall. We're seeing it in Texas, we see it in the fight against AGW, we see it all over the place.

You are entirely right that the crisis is one of attitude.

if they won't join us, if we can't go through them, then we have to go around them...they will be paying $500 for a truck load of firewood, rather than use a solar roof...at some point they will have to be disregarded as part of the solution imo

135 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:18:32pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

More or less agreed. It's all window dressing anyways. Every administration throws its hat in the ring for peace in the middle east just in case it actually happens. Nobody really thinks anything is going to happen but they want to be able to claim credit just in case.

it's the Biggest Prize Of All

136 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:19:30pm

re: #110 albusteve

and all fundamentally wrong...it's only by Israels graceful intentions there any Arabs at all in the West Bank

Holy shit.

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:19:54pm

re: #7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Shabbat Shalom, y'all.

(is that right?)

Indeed!

138 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:20:42pm

re: #117 freetoken

Don't know if this was discussed downstairs, but it is interesting. News from the UK:

Court bars far-right party from taking new members

Britain is so fucked up, that sooner or later they will take a huge hit with regard to freedom of speech etc....I wonder about the US sometimes

139 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:22:12pm

re: #127 Racer X

Sadly, you are right.

I don't know about that just yet. Admittedly, the GOP and many of it's more vocal members and it's right-wing supporters have been going completely off the rails and over the cliff this last year or so. Still, I would not count them out, as this info here may turn out to be a major "game changer" come the next elections.

140 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:22:32pm

I wonder if HotAir, RedState, etc will run this story?

Wacky winter a signal of years to come: Climatologist


From the balmy Arctic, to the open water of the St. Lawrence and snowless western fields, this winter has been the warmest and driest in Canadian record books.
141 Tigger2005  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:23:12pm

re: #49 HoosierHoops

God Charged us with caring for this fragile planet.. All you rightwing GOPers that think it's our right to trash the planet? Go watch Beck and stop injecting yourselves into matters of Science..

On some level they DO think it's our right to trash the planet. They think "subdue the Earth" means to treat it like a dumping ground.

Now here's where it gets really confusing: A bunch of them hold two completely contradictory ideas as absolute truth.

1) The end of history is nigh, God is going to destroy the planet and gather the Elect into Heaven, so it really doesn't matter what we do to the planet anyway. In fact, by helping to mess it up, we might be doing God's will.

2) God has blessed our way of life and therefore it cannot possibly damage the environment in any long-term fashion that will dramatically affect our way of life. We can keep on doing what we're doing, God has set things up in such a way that the planet can absorb the waste products of industry indefinitely with no lasting effects, no matter what the dumb scientists say.

Yes. They believe both things at once.

142 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:23:31pm

re: #123 freetoken

KT: Thought of you when this popped up:

Cleveland Transforms Mall into Giant Greenhouse


[...]

Very cool! Thanks for linking that.

143 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:24:16pm

re: #133 Racer X

I'm gonna go watch that freaky Alice movie.

BBL

Aw, damnit! Well, have fun anyway.

144 Jadespring  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:25:22pm

re: #140 freetoken

I wonder if HotAir, RedState, etc will run this story?

Wacky winter a signal of years to come: Climatologist

Yep, you guys stole most of the snow this year.

145 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:25:54pm

re: #131 Silvergirl

I don't know that much about KY. If you're truly in or from OH, then you must know a bit about your neighbor to the south.

I was born in Lexington, most of my inlaws live in Louisville, I've played a lot of music there and live across the river in Cincinnati. I'm not an expert on the local pols as I don't vote there, but the population is, um, pretty interesting in an reactionary kind of way. Lot's of color and contradictions. Sometimes scary, always entertaining.

146 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:27:02pm

re: #144 Jadespring

Yep, you guys stole most of the snow this year.

Well, Canada can have it back!

147 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:27:24pm

About Clinton's statement on the settlements -- it's just not even news that the US is publicly against Israeli settlement building. As Killgore pointed out, this little song and dance has been running for decades.

The only thing even slightly newsworthy about it is that Clinton was actually right -- Netanyahu made the announcement at a time that can only be seen as a deliberate insult. Which isn't very smart on his part.

148 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:27:40pm

re: #144 Jadespring

Yep, you guys stole most of the snow this year.

We also stole you bacon and renamed it "smoked ham". Bwahahaha!

149 Jadespring  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:28:34pm

re: #148 Slumbering Behemoth

We also stole you bacon and renamed it "smoked ham". Bwahahaha!

Cretians!!! Not our bacon!

150 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:29:24pm

mmmmm, bacon....

151 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:31:58pm

re: #149 Jadespring

Next, we be stealin' yer women folk!

/You can keep Celine Dion, though. Srsly.

152 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:32:30pm

FNDT ...

153 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:33:36pm

I was going to post a link to nutball Ventura on the Today show but it goes to a Ron Paul 2012 youtube channel... guh. Shoulda known that...

154 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:33:49pm

re: #145 Jeff In Ohio

I was born in Lexington, most of my inlaws live in Louisville, I've played a lot of music there and live across the river in Cincinnati. I'm not an expert on the local pols as I don't vote there, but the population is, um, pretty interesting in an reactionary kind of way. Lot's of color and contradictions. Sometimes scary, always entertaining.

I wondered what music you play so I looked at your profile. Acoustic and electric guitar, and Americana is listed. Do you know of The Mammals? I'm a fan.

155 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:33:53pm

re: #147 Charles

About Clinton's statement on the settlements -- it's just not even news that the US is publicly against Israeli settlement building. As Killgore pointed out, this little song and dance has been running for decades.

The only thing even slightly newsworthy about it is that Clinton was actually right -- Netanyahu made the announcement at a time that can only be seen as a deliberate insult. Which isn't very smart on his part.

I dunno, though, that it was all that dumb to insult the admin either. It's not as if they were expecting a pro-Israel administration, after all. From the israeli side, it's a nice way to secure your hold on your domestic constituencies by being seen to stand up against THAT GUY over there.

156 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:34:07pm

OT: don't know if it's been mentioned yet-- Stupak news of the day!

He also said that, while he is holding firm and voting against health care reform, some of his 12 fellow pro-lifers are caving.

"At this point, there is no doubt that they've been able to peel off one or two of my twelve," he said. "I didn't cave. The others are having both of their arms twisted, and we're all getting pounded by our traditional Democratic supporters, like unions."

But on House leadership moving forward without his support, Stupak said: "They're ignoring me."

Aw.

157 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:34:26pm

re: #151 Slumbering Behemoth

Next, we be stealin' yer women folk!

/You can keep Celine Dion, though. Srsly.

really...give me Court and Spark anyday

158 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:34:37pm

re: #152 Thanos

FNDT ...

Thanks for the reminder, off I go.

BBL

159 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:35:34pm

re: #155 Guanxi88

I dunno, though, that it was all that dumb to insult the admin either. It's not as if they were expecting a pro-Israel administration, after all. From the israeli side, it's a nice way to secure your hold on your domestic constituencies by being seen to stand up against THAT GUY over there.

Israel loses nothing with that...nada

160 Jadespring  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:35:41pm

re: #140 freetoken

I wonder if HotAir, RedState, etc will run this story?

Wacky winter a signal of years to come: Climatologist

On a more serious note as much as having a winter where I spent very little shoveling. In some areas it doesn't bode well for regions that depend on snowfall to replenish the watersheds and ground water aquifers. Major cities like Vancouver depend on meltwater for water the rest of the year. When the snowpack is poor and if spring rainfall doesn't make up for it causes major headaches. Snowfall also affects some of our major growing areas in the plains as well.

161 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:36:32pm

re: #159 albusteve

Israel loses nothing with that...nada

That's what I;m saying - the worst thing that could be anticipated - an objection to the new home construction - was a foregone conclusion.

162 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:37:51pm

re: #161 Guanxi88

That's what I;m saying - the worst thing that could be anticipated - an objection to the new home construction - was a foregone conclusion.

HRC...the nerf SecS...weightless

163 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:38:25pm

re: #160 Jadespring

On a more serious note as much as having a winter where I spent very little shoveling. In some areas it doesn't bode well for regions that depend on snowfall to replenish the watersheds and ground water aquifers. Major cities like Vancouver depend on meltwater for water the rest of the year. When the snowpack is poor and if spring rainfall doesn't make up for it causes major headaches. Snowfall also affects some of our major growing areas in the plains as well.

So, since you're a Canadian, could I take up my beef with and admiration for, Gordon Lightfoot with you?

'Cause, that talented SOB's mournful swan song "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" has eaten up more hard-drive and bandwidth in my poor skull than I can stand.

164 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:39:56pm

re: #163 Guanxi88

So, since you're a Canadian, could I take up my beef with and admiration for, Gordon Lightfoot with you?

'Cause, that talented SOB's mournful swan song "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" has eaten up more hard-drive and bandwidth in my poor skull than I can stand.

Barf... "talented SOB's..." oh come on.

165 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:40:35pm

re: #154 Silvergirl

I wondered what music you play so I looked at your profile. Acoustic and electric guitar, and Americana is listed. Do you know of The Mammals? I'm a fan.

Only as being on a label of a guy I use to hang with in western Massachusetts many many moons ago (I'm on his email list), I've not heard their music till now, I'll have to check it out when I'm not on a laptop, always like some clawhammer banjo and fiddle. It's a bit different then what Signature Sounds normally puts out (singer songwriter stuff).

166 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:41:00pm

re: #164 Walter L. Newton

Barf... "talented SOB's..." oh come on.

Hey, I'm not sayin' he's Dylanesque or anything of the sort, but the guy's work strikes me as pretty good. For a Canadian.

167 prairiefire  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:41:51pm

Court And Spark with a plug for some guy's website:

168 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:43:53pm

re: #166 Guanxi88

Hey, I'm not sayin' he's Dylanesque or anything of the sort, but the guy's work strikes me as pretty good. For a Canadian.

Certainly better then those awful Canadians Neil Young and Leonard Cohen.

169 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:44:06pm

ut oh...
it's a minced clams and cream cheese run here... Good thing I didn't finish that snifter yet...

170 Jadespring  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:45:16pm

re: #163 Guanxi88

So, since you're a Canadian, could I take up my beef with and admiration for, Gordon Lightfoot with you?

'Cause, that talented SOB's mournful swan song "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" has eaten up more hard-drive and bandwidth in my poor skull than I can stand.

That's quite the song isn't it. IMO he's a Canadian treasure. His songs and especially that one just seem to capture something that's intangibly "Canadian". I spent the night on the edge of Lake Superior during a massive storm and that song just really fit somehow. Yeah I know that might sound dorky to some but there's just something about it that I find hard to explain.

171 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:45:26pm

re: #168 Jeff In Ohio

Certainly better then those awful Canadians Neil Young and Leonard Cohen.

That's what I mean.

uhh, wait a minute.....

172 HypnoToad  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:45:54pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

It was an "ah ha" type of thing. I noticed that the anti AGW
arguments sounded a lot like creationist arguments against evolution.
After this rather obvious (now that I look back) connection, I dug into
the subject.

Needless to say, I felt monumentally stupid.

Live and learn.

Don't worry, you were not the only one. I was skeptical for quite a while (not of the warming, but the anthropogenic part of it) until I started reading some of the links here and watching the various arguments unfold. That said, this will be a political argument with the general public for some time to come. The changes will have to become quite obvious before a lot of people will reexamine their beliefs on the matter.

173 Jadespring  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:46:04pm

re: #168 Jeff In Ohio

Certainly better then those awful Canadians Neil Young and Leonard Cohen.

Boo. Hiss. Booo

174 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:46:44pm

re: #164 Walter L. Newton

Barf... "talented SOB's..." oh come on.

You must be an Englebert fan. I've heard that the Lightfoot-Humperdink feud runs deep.

/

175 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:47:01pm

re: #160 Jadespring

Several news stories on this lack of precipitation in the North:

Water shortages may hit northern Rockies

Much of the nation may be snow-weary, but farmers and ranchers who rely on winter snowpack in the northern Rockies for irrigation during the dry months of the growing season could face water shortages this summer unless more snow arrives soon.

Wet spring and summer conditions in 2008 and 2009 helped pull the region out of a decade-long drought, but now hydrologists are once again reporting below-average mountain snowpack throughout much of the northern Rockies.

176 prairiefire  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:47:23pm

re: #160 Jadespring

Thank you for Ms Mitchell, as well.

177 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:49:23pm

People who live in gated communities shouldn't throw keys.

Apropos of nothing, really.

I'm going to have trout for dinner.

Feed a man a fish, and he'll bite.

178 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:50:01pm

re: #176 prairiefire

Thank you for Ms Mitchell, as well.

[Video]

I tell you what's gonna happen - we're gonna pull one of those LDS post-mortem naturalizations for these guys and make 'em Americans the way the Good Lord meant 'em to be.

179 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:50:08pm

re: #174 goddamnedfrank

You must be an Englebert fan. I've heard that the Lightfoot-Humperdink feud runs deep.

/

Now you really got me mad... what kind of classless fool do you take me for? If you want to start talking about real talent, you're going to have to step up to a higher plateau... let's discuss Allen Sherman.

180 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:51:35pm

re: #179 Walter L. Newton

Now you really got me mad... what kind of classless fool do you take me for? If you want to start talking about real talent, you're going to have to step up to a higher plateau... let's discuss Allen Sherman.

hello mudda

181 darthstar  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:51:55pm

re: #180 albusteve

hello mudda

hello fadda

182 Jadespring  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:51:59pm

re: #178 Guanxi88

I tell you what's gonna happen - we're gonna pull one of those LDS post-mortem naturalizations for these guys and make 'em Americans the way the Good Lord meant 'em to be.

I think that's already happened. I've met a few Americans in my life that just assume that Young and Mitchell are American. Actually to be fair I've met Canadians who have assumed that as well. :)

183 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:52:50pm

True comment from my wife the other day:

" Somebody look at the books on your shelf, read some of your letters and such, they'd think you're some high-brow intellectual, but a look in the mirror shows you're a unibrowed schlub."

184 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:53:16pm

re: #173 Jadespring

Aw, c'mon now, who can not love Leonard Cohen:
The Future

Give me crack and anal sex
Take the only tree that's left
and stuff it up the hole
in your culture

Cohen fucking slays me.

185 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:53:51pm

re: #182 Jadespring

I think that's already happened. I've met a few Americans in my life that just assume that Young and Mitchell are American. Actually to be fair I've met Canadians who have assumed that as well. :)

Sorta a reverse version of the way Austria never gets blamed for him-whose-name-evokes-Godwin?

186 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:54:00pm

re: #181 darthstar

hello fadda

One hippopotami, is not two hippopotamus...

187 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:54:17pm

re: #176 prairiefire

Thank you for Ms Mitchell, as well.

I'll see you that and raise you this.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

I like the part of her taking off her shirt.

188 prairiefire  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:54:20pm

re: #178 Guanxi88

Mr. Young "A Man Needs A Maid":

189 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:54:37pm

surfin some Joni Mitchell....what a fine lyricist and arranger...

Coyote

190 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:54:54pm

re: #165 Jeff In Ohio

Only as being on a label of a guy I use to hang with in western Massachusetts many many moons ago (I'm on his email list), I've not heard their music till now, I'll have to check it out when I'm not on a laptop, always like some clawhammer banjo and fiddle. It's a bit different then what Signature Sounds normally puts out (singer songwriter stuff).

The only song of theirs I could find on YouTube is John Henry. I've only seen The Mammals perform live once. My second chance didn't end up happening even though they were actually on the west coast--a rarity. I was most impressed with Ruth Unger who sings and plays fiddle and ukulele. One of them--Tao Rodriguez-Seeger--is Pete Seeger's grandson. I looked him up on Wikipedia just now to make sure I spelled his name right and found this:

Barack Obama Inaugural Celebration

On January 18, 2009, Tao performed with his grandfather Pete Seeger, Bruce Springsteen and a youth chorus. They sang Woody Guthrie's famous song "This Land Is Your Land" during the finale of President Barack Obama's We Are One Inaugural Celebration in Washington, D.C., before an audience estimated to be 400,000 people. This performance was noteworthy for the singing of two of Woody's original verses that have traditionally been widely censored. One verse mentioned "private property" and the other made reference to a depression era relief office.

191 Jadespring  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:54:55pm

re: #184 Jeff In Ohio

Aw, c'mon now, who can not love Leonard Cohen:
The Future

Cohen fucking slays me.

No! I meant 'boo hiss boo' for dissing them! :D

192 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:55:01pm

re: #188 prairiefire

sexist yes he does!

193 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:55:31pm

re: #168 Jeff In Ohio

Certainly better then those awful Canadians Neil Young and Leonard Cohen.

Not nice, but at least you didn't bring RUSH into it.

194 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:56:17pm

re: #167 prairiefire

Court And Spark with a plug for some guy's website:

[Video]

At one time I think I had every song on that album memorized.

195 Kruk  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:57:19pm

re: #156 iceweasel

OT: don't know if it's been mentioned yet-- Stupak news of the day!

Aw.

Heh. Stupak's had his fifteen minutes of fame, but I think even he realises the game's up.

196 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:57:27pm

re: #194 Silvergirl

At one time I think I had every song on that album memorized.

a brilliant record...her masterpiece, no question

197 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:57:47pm

Another great moment in married bliss:

Wife: "Ya know, you're such a transparently crooked son of a bitch, even the f*ckin dog sees through you!"

198 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:58:32pm

re: #195 Kruk

Heh. Stupak's had his fifteen minutes of fame, but I think even he realises the game's up.

The TPM piece described him as 'dejected'.

Heh.

It's beginning to look a lot like Health Care! ev'rywhere you go....

199 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:58:39pm

BTW, Buchanan's new piece has a line that is sure to be grasped by the Tea Partiers, and if it becomes part of the revanchist mantra that gets people elected then we could be in for a rough ride:

Nations rise on economic nationalism; they descend on free trade.

This will split off the pure theoretical "libertarians" from those who simply exploit fundamentalist libertarianism for their own purposes.

200 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:59:15pm

re: #190 Silvergirl

Here's a couple of more songs
[Link: www.myspace.com...]

If you like string music with a more updated feel, check out The Carolina Chocolate Drops. Great band from the Chapel Hill/Raleigh NC area.

201 Stanghazi  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:59:29pm

re: #184 Jeff In Ohio

Aw, c'mon now, who can not love Leonard Cohen:
The Future

Cohen fucking slays me.

Wow - that was great.

202 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:00:06pm

re: #197 Guanxi88

Another great moment in married bliss:

Wife: "Ya know, you're such a transparently crooked son of a bitch, even the f*ckin dog sees through you!"

If you knew my personality, you'd know I could ONLY end up married to someone capable of stuff like this.

203 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:00:11pm

re: #173 Jadespring

re: #193 goddamnedfrank

C'mon people, sarcasm.

204 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:01:28pm

re: #202 Guanxi88

If you knew my personality, you'd know I could ONLY end up married to someone capable of stuff like this.

I like her!

BTW, watched some of that IFC doc you recommended on conspiracy theorists-- great stuff. Thanks again.

205 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:01:47pm

Great line from a lady I was once engaged to:

"Thing about you is, you're a nice enough guy and all the rest, but you're not really fully human. Now, you know that, and so you've got the good sense to try to conceal it, but it's really dishonest and unfair for those who have to deal with you."

206 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:03:47pm

My good friends from Winnipeg Twilight Hotel. Dave and Brandi lay down some righteous old school rock grooves.

If your nice, and its late and every ones is drunk, Brandi will play some Ukrainian folk songs on her accordion.

207 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:03:50pm

re: #205 Guanxi88

So you're a Raelian hybrid?

208 Kruk  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:03:53pm

re: #205 Guanxi88

Great line from a lady I was once engaged to:

"Thing about you is, you're a nice enough guy and all the rest, but you're not really fully human. Now, you know that, and so you've got the good sense to try to conceal it, but it's really dishonest and unfair for those who have to deal with you."

Heh. You should have simply quoted Mr Spock:

"He seems so.....human."

"No-one's perfect, Saavik."

209 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:06:01pm

re: #207 freetoken

So you're a Raelian hybrid?

Nope, but Mr. Sea and I are countrymen. So's my #1 son. We're not in all respects what some folk call "neurotypical" and, oddly enough, people have said that it's a bit like being from another planet, for some of us and at some times.

210 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:06:35pm

Exchange on Facebook:

Friend: "Good luck to so-and-so at the Michael Jackson tribute tonight."

Me: "Who is Michael Jackson?"

Friend: "You didn't see Star Wars either, did you?"

Me: "Umm...wait...wasn't that the thing Ronald Reagan used to talk about?"

Friend: "Wasn't he the guy who made movies with chimps? Which brings us right back to Michael..."

LOL

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:08:34pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

It's time for me to see my parents and face my father's anger. Wish me luck and I'll be back later.

Godspeed.

212 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:08:50pm

BTW, today was the first day to order an iPad. Rumors have it that orders are above expectation (this is based on order numbers on invoices.)

Anyway, Apple stock is up, and as of today Apple replaces Walmart as #3 on the total value of stock of American companies (ExxonMobil Is #1, Microsoft is #2.)

213 Jadespring  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:08:50pm

Well any recognition of great Canadian singers would not be complete without some Stompin Tom!

The Hockey Song

Bud The Spud

214 prairiefire  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:09:41pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

How's your head?

215 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:09:54pm

re: #200 Jeff In Ohio

Here's a couple of more songs
[Link: www.myspace.com...]

If you like string music with a more updated feel, check out The Carolina Chocolate Drops. Great band from the Chapel Hill/Raleigh NC area.

I'm liking what I'm hearing from the Carolina Chocolate Drops. Thanks!

216 freetoken  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:10:43pm

Apple sells 50,000 iPads in two hours

No one will know the truth until Apple discloses it, but there is sport out there in guessing.

217 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:11:21pm

re: #18 windsagio

Sometimes I think he puts up with extra from people just to prove that very point :p

Ya think? :p

218 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:11:42pm

re: #170 Jadespring

That's quite the song isn't it. IMO he's a Canadian treasure. His songs and especially that one just seem to capture something that's intangibly "Canadian". I spent the night on the edge of Lake Superior during a massive storm and that song just really fit somehow. Yeah I know that might sound dorky to some but there's just something about it that I find hard to explain.

I've always liked Ballad of the Yarmouth Castle a bit better than that one. Dunno why

219 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:12:23pm

re: #212 freetoken

BTW, today was the first day to order an iPad. Rumors have it that orders are above expectation (this is based on order numbers on invoices.)

Anyway, Apple stock is up, and as of today Apple replaces Walmart as #3 on the total value of stock of American companies (ExxonMobil Is #1, Microsoft is #2.)

I saw a poll on CNN about it. When I put my "No" in, I saw it was 90 something percent NOT pre-ordering an iPad.

220 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:14:00pm

Oops, I was just ordering a new filter for my pond before I remembered to do it through LGF.
Bio Pressurized Pond Filter, 3000 Gal should do the trick for my ailing pond. I'm hoping to get the pond healthy enough this year to support a small colony of frogs. Should be great slug control!

221 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:15:04pm

re: #215 Silvergirl

I'm liking what I'm hearing from the Carolina Chocolate Drops. Thanks!

Cool beans. Lot's of great stuff going on in North Carolina. I miss not being there....sigh.

222 prairiefire  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:16:02pm

What happened to James Dobson?[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:16:48pm

re: #111 Guanxi88

yeah, in general, they've all made these kinda comments. I just hate that these supposed "settlements" that are getting bitched about are in f*cking jerusalem. If you can call an Israeli house in jersualem a settlement, then you've dropped all pretense that you think Israelis can live ANYWHERE in Israel.

The NY Times article said the housing, (which is going into a heavily Orthodox neighborhood), was 'for Jews'. I am still trying to figure out if this just means "Israelis", or if there's something I'm missing here.

224 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:17:23pm

re: #221 Jeff In Ohio

Cool beans. Lot's of great stuff going on in North Carolina. I miss not being there...sigh.

If you're not there, you're not being there right now, so you can't miss it. Just sayin'.

225 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:17:36pm

re: #220 Killgore Trout

Oops, I was just ordering a new filter for my pond before I remembered to do it through LGF.
Bio Pressurized Pond Filter, 3000 Gal should do the trick for my ailing pond. I'm hoping to get the pond healthy enough this year to support a small colony of frogs. Should be great slug control!

Sweetness, man! We've got a little pond - stocked with 8 koi (what else?) that's MONDO toad habitat, and we love the little guys. Hell, I count them among the family's pets.

226 Ben G. Hazi  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:18:16pm

re: #218 Thanos

I've always liked Ballad of the Yarmouth Castle a bit better than that one. Dunno why

I love "Beautiful" and "Canadian Railroad Trilogy" myself...

227 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:18:51pm

Heads up for Racer X - some fucktard or other is using your name on dangerous minds:

[Link: www.dangerousminds.net...]

228 simoom  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:20:58pm

re: #198 iceweasel

It's beginning to look a lot like Health Care! ev'rywhere you go...

I'd give that an upding, but I don't want to risk jinxing it :p.
*/eternal_pessimist*

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:21:13pm

re: #128 Jadespring

I learned a Canadianized version of This Land is You Land in school and at summer camp. The first time I heard the original version I got mad because I thought Americans had stolen one our songs! :D

Years ago, I was working with someone at a local synagogue putting together song sheets. She couldn't find "Go Down Moses" in the books she'd been consulting. "I looked in all the Jewish song sections," she complained.

"Don't they have a section on spirituals?" I asked.

She looked blank. Turns out she thought it was WRITTEN as a Pesach song.

230 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:21:39pm

re: #225 Guanxi88

I've been using an underpowered filter for a very long time and it causes water quality problems. Fish do ok but frogs and even snails will die of sometimes. My pond is 2000 gallons so a 3,000 gal filter should keep things nice and clean.

231 Ben G. Hazi  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:21:40pm

re: #227 Jimmah

Heads up for Racer X - some fucktard or other is using your name on dangerous minds:

[Link: www.dangerousminds.net...]

That's just several kinds of f**ked up, right there.

BTW, to everyone here: LGF is pretty much the only political blog I comment on...if you see my nick on any other political blog, there's a 99.999% chance it ain't me.

232 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:21:42pm

re: #227 Jimmah

Heads up for Racer X - some fucktard or other is using your name on dangerous minds:

[Link: www.dangerousminds.net...]

Some other fucktard used Racer X's nic on a Big Dumb Breitbart site, on a shrieking harpy post there about LGF.
That one I thought was just some random hater with the same cultural reference. This might be the same fucktard, but in any case I'm sure everyone knows it isn't our Racer X.

Some fucknut there is now impersonating lvq too.

233 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:21:44pm

re: #227 Jimmah

Heads up for Racer X - some fucktard or other is using your name on dangerous minds:

[Link: www.dangerousminds.net...]

Yeah, they're still spewing like complete lunatics over there.

I hope they don't stop. Couldn't ask for a better demonstration of how completely insane the stalkers are, and they don't even seem to realize it.

234 Achilles Tang  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:21:56pm

re: #205 Guanxi88

Tooting your own horn again.

235 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:22:16pm

re: #228 simoom

I'd give that an upding, but I don't want to risk jinxing it :p.
*/eternal_pessimist*

I hear you. :)

Still....house vote next week, I think.

236 Seltzer123  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:23:26pm

Thanks for this post, Charles.

Here is a link to some recent polling results concerning public opinion on global warming: [Link: pollingreport.com...]

237 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:23:57pm

re: #206 Jeff In Ohio

My good friends from Winnipeg Twilight Hotel. Dave and Brandi lay down some righteous old school rock grooves.


[Video]If your nice, and its late and every ones is drunk, Brandi will play some Ukrainian folk songs on her accordion.

They do, they do!

I'm playing it twice.

238 Achilles Tang  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:25:03pm

re: #230 Killgore Trout

I've been using an underpowered filter for a very long time and it causes water quality problems. Fish do ok but frogs and even snails will die of sometimes. My pond is 2000 gallons so a 3,000 gal filter should keep things nice and clean.

Go green young man. Take 500 gallons of your 3000 and make it a wetland to do do its own filtering.

239 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:25:34pm

re: #224 Cato the Elder

If you're not there, you're not being there right now, so you can't miss it. Just sayin'.

You need to get laid.

240 Achilles Tang  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:26:36pm

re: #239 Jeff In Ohio

You need to get laid.

If he's not he's not missing it.

241 simoom  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:27:09pm

re: #32 freetoken

It amazes me how anti-AGW-science has become a plank in the far right ideology.

I remember that in late 2008 Rupert Murdoch did an about face on AGW and started advocating for global action to address it. Does anyone know if his change-of-heart was ever reflected in News Corp. media at the time? FNC has clearly been in total climate skeptic/denial mode for the past year, but I don't recall where they were at prior to then.

242 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:29:49pm

re: #214 prairiefire

How's your head?

Still pretty good!

243 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:30:11pm

re: #240 Naso Tang

If he's not he's not missing it.

What do the kids say....oh yeah, LOL!

244 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:30:13pm

re: #239 Jeff In Ohio

You need to get laid.

I'm wooing Mandy right now with my new avatar.

245 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:31:23pm

Birther Non-Denial Denials from Republican Senate Candidates

Et tu, Rob Portman? Ye of sensibility and rectitude? Ye of maturity and political resolve? Despite inquires from the Cincinnati Enquirer and Plain Dealer, Portman's campaign won't directly answer the question of whether the candidate believes that President Obama is a citizen. (Obama is.) So now, we're up to five Republican Senate candidates -- major ones, not including J.D. Hayworth in Arizona for the moment -- who have flirted with Birtherism.

Several of these candidates have later corrected their initial hesitation, but it is precisely that initial hesitation that contains so much information about what Republican candidates fear right now. No doubt that Portman and Marco Rubio know that Birtherism is bullshit. The gap between their private beliefs and how they articulate them publicly is fairly wide. I'm not a fan of stories that begin with X "refuses to denounce" Y -- I usually skip them. I make an exception here because the accusation is so reckless, so tied to race and culture, and so stupid that those who try to Wink at the Birthers are adding potency to a poison that everyone is forced to gulp.

Rep. Roy Blunt called the question "legitimate" and said he did not know whether Obama was a citizen. Bonus: he said this in February.

Rand Paul bonus:

Rand Paul, the favorite to win the GOP primary in Kentucky, defended those who raised the question and calls it now a "moot point."
246 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:31:25pm

re: #238 Naso Tang

Go green young man. Take 500 gallons of your 3000 and make it a wetland to do do its own filtering.

I'm in a pretty tight space so I don't really have the room to expand the pond but during the summer I make an improvised mobile marsh out of a 2' by 4' shallow plastic container for growing water chestnuts. They do a great job of cleaning the water.

247 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:31:35pm

re: #244 Cato the Elder

I'm wooing Mandy right now with my new avatar.

Snort!

Golden showers abound!

248 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:32:23pm

re: #244 Cato the Elder

I'm wooing Mandy right now with my new avatar.

To make that right you really need to replace Cartoon Calvin's face with Dominionist Calvin's face...

Image: File:Portrait_john_calvin.jpg

249 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:33:12pm

re: #248 Thanos

To make that right you really need to replace Cartoon Calvin's face with Dominionist Calvin's face...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Hey, that's my proctologist!

250 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:33:23pm

Wow, the things you learn by looking at #tcot on Twitter.

Did you know there's a whole genre of YouTube videos dedicated to showing dogs who hate President Obama?

Dog hates Obama

Check out the related videos.

Apparently, this kind of thing is highly amusing to conservatives.

251 BartB  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:33:35pm

Can anyone spell "Cold Fusion"?
It's hard to look at a piece of code and say what the whole program will do. However, comma, there appear to be serious problems with the raw data.
GIGO still applies, and the data appear suspect.
Are the entire programs public? When the IEEE plans a new standard, the proposals are public for a couple of years and are picked to death.
At the end of that time, with thousands of qualified people making their comments, the product is pretty reliable.
That does not seem to be the situation regarding AGW.

252 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:34:20pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

Years ago, I was working with someone at a local synagogue putting together song sheets. She couldn't find "Go Down Moses" in the books she'd been consulting. "I looked in all the Jewish song sections," she complained.

"Don't they have a section on spirituals?" I asked.

She looked blank. Turns out she thought it was WRITTEN as a Pesach song.

And it was and it is. In America.

253 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:35:30pm

re: #251 BartB

Can anyone spell "Cold Fusion"?
It's hard to look at a piece of code and say what the whole program will do. However, comma, there appear to be serious problems with the raw data.
GIGO still applies, and the data appear suspect.
Are the entire programs public? When the IEEE plans a new standard, the proposals are public for a couple of years and are picked to death.
At the end of that time, with thousands of qualified people making their comments, the product is pretty reliable.
That does not seem to be the situation regarding AGW.

Complete unmitigated bullshit.

254 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:35:34pm

re: #251 BartB

Oh, good Lord, not this shite again.

Do you look anything like this guy?

255 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:35:35pm

re: #251 BartB

C O L D F U S I O N

256 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:36:11pm

re: #205 Guanxi88

Great line from a lady I was once engaged to:

"Thing about you is, you're a nice enough guy and all the rest, but you're not really fully human. Now, you know that, and so you've got the good sense to try to conceal it, but it's really dishonest and unfair for those who have to deal with you."

She's probably got a daughter now who's neck-deep in love with that Twilight actor.

257 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:36:26pm

re: #255 Jeff In Ohio

C O L D F U S I O N

But have we checked the Texas standards on how to spell that? /

258 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:36:32pm

re: #233 Charles

Yeah, they're still spewing like complete lunatics over there.

I hope they don't stop. Couldn't ask for a better demonstration of how completely insane the stalkers are, and they don't even seem to realize it.

Yep - they seems to think that a few extreme , frothing and obviously dishonest rants will set the record straight on the issue of their extremism and tendency towards obviously dishonest rants. And they are right...just not in the way they think.

259 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:37:25pm

re: #221 Jeff In Ohio

Cool beans. Lot's of great stuff going on in North Carolina. I miss not being there...sigh.

Whereabouts? Mountains, Metrolina, or seaboard?

260 Achilles Tang  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:38:46pm

re: #246 Killgore Trout

I'm in a pretty tight space so I don't really have the room to expand the pond but during the summer I make an improvised mobile marsh out of a 2' by 4' shallow plastic container for growing water chestnuts. They do a great job of cleaning the water.

If that works you could just try some floating plant holders with suitable water plants, and periodically empty some thereby removing the nutrients they have absorbed and grown on.

261 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:39:22pm

re: #251 BartB
re: #253 Charles

I have all the palladium wire anyone wants to buy to replicate cold fusion. It's available at a deep discount as its slightly used. Used by those poor bastards that thought they could replicate the process the first time.

ROFL.

262 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:39:35pm

Hah. Looks like the creationist troll at Boing Boing got disemvoweled.

[Link: www.boingboing.net...]

263 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:39:36pm

re: #251 BartB

Can anyone spell "Cold Fusion"?

Are the entire programs public?

Hey Bart, suck mah data sets...

[Link: www.realclimate.org...]

264 BenghaziHoops  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:39:44pm

re: #251 BartB

You have got to be kidding me! You wanna talk about the difference between Cold fusion and Climate change science?
Shut up or get smoked..Your Choice

265 Achilles Tang  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:39:58pm

re: #251 BartB

Wow, thanks.

266 bratwurst  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:40:19pm

re: #250 Charles

Wow, the things you learn by looking at #tcot on Twitter.

Did you know there's a whole genre of YouTube videos dedicated to showing dogs who hate President Obama?

Hey, if you really believed Sarah Palin is qualified to be President of the United States you might also find stupid pet tricks to be the height of comedy as well.

267 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:41:29pm

re: #244 Cato the Elder

I'm wooing Mandy right now with my new avatar.

These things too shall piss...

268 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:41:32pm

The new wave in moderating comments perhaps? Hah. DisemVoweled.

269 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:42:05pm

re: #257 iceweasel

But have we checked the Texas standards on how to spell that? /

Whoops! I have issued a correction.

H A N D O F G O D

270 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:42:47pm

re: #266 bratwurst

Hey, if you really believed Sarah Palin is qualified to be President of the United States you might also find stupid pet tricks to be the height of comedy as well.

That particular stupid trick has long been popular with the denizens of stormfront and the like. This is just the new iteration.

The old one was videos (or stories) of their dogs being trained to bark at the sight of black people.

Not kidding, i wish I were.

271 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:43:35pm

re: #270 iceweasel

Yep.

You can find a section of 'jew-hating' dogs, too.

272 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:43:42pm

re: #256 The Sanity Inspector

She's probably got a daughter now who's neck-deep in love with that Twilight actor.

It'd serve her right, I tell you what.

Like I'm supposed to be some kinda mind-reader or something? Said I "lacked empathy" - told her "yeah, so what if I do?"

She'd say, "What do you suppose X thinks of me?" I'd walk over and ask X what she thought of her, which, I've since learned, is not ALWAYS what one is expected to do.

"Whaddaya want from me? I;m not a damned mind-reader. I try to figure out what I can from clues they may drop, but when in doubt, I'll just ask them."

Oh, and she hated the fact that I'd sit and converse with people like I was some kind of anthropologist just stumbled onto some un-contacted tribe of pacific islanders.

These were all signs, but who knew it then?, of what would later be found out by a neurologist when she started trying to figure out why #1 son doesn't talk at age 3 and can barely walk down the hall way without bumping into something, and why I've got 3 nephews who've got the same problem, or worse, or why mu mother's great-uncle was always called "odd but smart" and all the rest of it.

273 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:44:51pm

re: #271 Obdicut

Yep.

You can find a section of 'jew-hating' dogs, too.

Hell, i've got one in my house. Got two cats who're the same way, too.

274 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:45:19pm

re: #268 Rightwingconspirator

The new wave in moderating comments perhaps? Hah. DisemVoweled.

A few people do that-- PZ myers does. I really like it, personally-- the trolls generally freak out and keep posting over and over. Hilarity ensues.
Disemvowelment is an awesome way to deal with trolls, but the kind we get here, deletion is better imo.

275 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:45:23pm

re: #259 The Sanity Inspector

Whereabouts? Mountains, Metrolina, or seaboard?

Yes, yes, yes!!! Sisters in Raleigh, lived for a bit in Greenville, been going to Hatteras Island since I was 5, played dozens of times in the Ashville, Black Mountain area as well as the Triangle. If I hadn't married a local girl, I'd be gone, daddy, gone, gone from Ohio.

276 bratwurst  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:45:54pm

re: #270 iceweasel

That particular stupid trick has long been popular with the denizens of stormfront and the like. This is just the new iteration.

Huh...guess it is just a coincidence that dogs are being trained to growl at the mention of the first black president.

277 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:46:10pm

re: #262 Charles

Hah. Looks like the creationist troll at Boing Boing got disemvoweled.

[Link: www.boingboing.net...]

You can click on the nic of the (verbal) knife-wielder and see all her recent comments. I'd open registration for that one. If she isn't too busy over there...

278 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:46:20pm

re: #271 Obdicut

Yep.

You can find a section of 'jew-hating' dogs, too.

I'm pleased that I managed to avoid knowing that til now, somehow. But it doesn't surprise me a bit.

279 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:46:37pm

re: #251 BartB

The cold fusion guys chose to run to the popular media for their short-lived revelation. AGW has a deep body of peer-reviewed literature behind its several aspects.

280 bratwurst  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:46:40pm

re: #273 Guanxi88

Hell, i've got one in my house. Got two cats who're the same way, too.

*wiping the beer off my monitor*

281 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:46:44pm

re: #72 freetoken

BTW, the hand wringing and aspersion contests over AGW can be put in context when we integrate what else is happening in American society and politics:

Paul, once the outsider, gains GOP support in Ky.

Well, Rand Paul is an oddball and an extremist.

That he is now leading the polls is a sad and scary thing.

That the establishment wants to coalesce around the leader in popularity is not surprising, but that now means the establishment is embracing oddball and extremist views.

People want what other people have or want.

Aw, shit. It would be a FAIL of epic proportions if the new GOP Senators of 2010 include Luap Dnar in their number. Back from dinner with enough money to sustain for a while but with a very sour stomach. My father was angry, but not furious. I need to focus on finding a new job, but he did give me some good budgeting ideas.

282 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:47:25pm

re: #163 Guanxi88

So, since you're a Canadian, could I take up my beef with and admiration for, Gordon Lightfoot with you?

'Cause, that talented SOB's mournful swan song "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" has eaten up more hard-drive and bandwidth in my poor skull than I can stand.

That's a great song! I keep meaning to do that at karaoke.

283 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:47:26pm

re: #270 iceweasel

That particular stupid trick has long been popular with the denizens of stormfront and the like. This is just the new iteration.

The old one was videos (or stories) of their dogs being trained to bark at the sight of black people.

Not kidding, i wish I were.

That should qualify as animal abuse.

284 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:49:07pm

re: #280 bratwurst

*wiping the beer off my monitor*

Lemme tell you about my baptist wife. She says she's not an anti-semite, she just hates my family, but doesn't hold us against Jews in general, who are, she's sure, fine people trying to suffer along and tolerate us like everybody else.

Says to me one day: Ya know who really hates your guts? The pastor at my church. He knows you're not a Christian, and yet he hasn't tried to put the squeeze on ya. If he's right, you're gonna burn, so I guess he must want you to burn, huh?

285 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:49:12pm

re: #274 iceweasel

A few people do that-- PZ myers does. I really like it, personally-- the trolls generally freak out and keep posting over and over. Hilarity ensues.
Disemvowelment is an awesome way to deal with trolls, but the kind we get here, deletion is better imo.

No ice, roasting them is better. And I do have charcoal for that.

286 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:49:31pm

re: #278 iceweasel

I knew a dude in Chicago who raised 'jew-hating' dogs. His dogs loved me. He wasn't that bright.

287 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:50:04pm

re: #282 WindUpBird

That's a great song! I keep meaning to do that at karaoke.

If you started at happy hour, you might could wrap up before last call.

288 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:50:43pm

re: #270 iceweasel

That particular stupid trick has long been popular with the denizens of stormfront and the like. This is just the new iteration.

The old one was videos (or stories) of their dogs being trained to bark at the sight of black people.

Not kidding, i wish I were.

I read a book with my students about dogs trained to attack the Japanese. Eyes of the Emperor by Graham Salisbury. Fiction, but the event happened. The young Japanese soldiers were used as a bait (even though they were somewhat protected, it was still risky) for the dogs who were trained on the premise that the Japanese smell different!

October 31, 1942
Twenty-six men from the 100th (Company B, Third Platoon) leave Camp McCoy, Wisconsin for Ship Island and Cat Island off the Mississippi Gulf coast, on special assignment to be used to train dogs to recognize and attack Japanese, based on their supposedly unique scent.

289 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:51:10pm

re: #282 WindUpBird

That's a great song! I keep meaning to do that at karaoke.

Really, they'd have the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald at carry-o-key? That seems like a long time to be ironic.

290 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:51:11pm

re: #284 Guanxi88

Lemme tell you about my baptist wife. She says she's not an anti-semite, she just hates my family, but doesn't hold us against Jews in general, who are, she's sure, fine people trying to suffer along and tolerate us like everybody else.

Says to me one day: Ya know who really hates your guts? The pastor at my church. He knows you're not a Christian, and yet he hasn't tried to put the squeeze on ya. If he's right, you're gonna burn, so I guess he must want you to burn, huh?

Is this your CURRENT wife?

291 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:51:27pm

re: #289 Jeff In Ohio

Really, they'd have the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald at carry-o-key? That seems like a long time to be ironic.

re: #287 Guanxi88

If you started at happy hour, you might could wrap up before last call.

292 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:51:43pm

re: #287 Guanxi88

If you started at happy hour, you might could wrap up before last call.

I think the longest song I ever did was November Rain. Thankfully the bar was empty or else I probably would have been dodging pint glasses.

293 reine.de.tout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:52:22pm

re: #242 SanFranciscoZionist

Still pretty good!

was there something wrong with your head?

294 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:52:38pm

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

Is this your CURRENT wife?

My first, and, I imagine, my last, as well. Whether that's because she'll do me in early, or because I couldn't imagine myself living with someone who wasn't quick and witty like that, is anyone's guess.

295 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:52:41pm

re: #274 iceweasel
Yeah I agree. But it works in an odd way.

296 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:52:44pm

re: #292 WindUpBird

A Jamaican friend of mind did a rasta version of Stairway To Heaven. That ruled.

297 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:52:58pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

No ice, roasting them is better. And I do have charcoal for that.

Welcome back, DF!

298 Silvergirl  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:53:32pm

Running off to a bridal shower now.

299 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:53:57pm

re: #289 Jeff In Ohio

Really, they'd have the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald at carry-o-key? That seems like a long time to be ironic.

Our karaoke bar has a different vibe, it's not all people being jokey. There's ironic hipsters and drunk college kids, that show up, but mostly it's a bunch of rock fans who are die-hard regulars who can (usually) really sing. There's a big guy with an absurd range who does a great Geoff Tate/Dio, there was a guy there for a while who sounded INDENTICAL to Sting. Like you walk in and you think it's a recording from the record, and then you see him up there.

300 BenghaziHoops  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:54:35pm

re: #282 WindUpBird

That's a great song! I keep meaning to do that at karaoke.

I love karaoke! Back around 1990 I was TDY at Pearl and we all sang down at Songbirds on the beach..The Mainland had never ever heard of singing in a bar making a fool of yourself...I'm not shy..I sing well and love having fun when going out...
/I miss hanging out in Hawaii in the 90's singing all night with my friends till 4am and having a blast...

301 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:55:30pm

re: #288 Silvergirl

My dad spent 4 years as a battalion scout in the Pacific jungle in WWII. One of the (many) things he goes on about was being able to tell how long a Japanese camp had been vacated by the strength of the odor the Japanese men left behind.

302 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:55:47pm

re: #286 Obdicut

I knew a dude in Chicago who raised 'jew-hating' dogs. His dogs loved me. He wasn't that bright.

I concluded he wasn't all that bright by the end of your first sentence.

303 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:56:12pm

re: #291 Guanxi88

A really long time.

304 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:56:20pm

I'm tempted to start disemvoweling instead of deleting here. And then if a troll shows that he/she is especially nasty, instead of banning put them on auto-disemvowel.

It might be pretty hilarious.

The actual code to do it is trivial:

preg_replace('/[a%P%e%P%i%P%o%P%u]/is', '', $thecomment);

305 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:56:41pm

re: #272 Guanxi88

It'd serve her right, I tell you what.

Like I'm supposed to be some kinda mind-reader or something? Said I "lacked empathy" - told her "yeah, so what if I do?"[...]

claps arm around Guanxi88's shoulder...

Not your fault, buddy-ro. Some women are just late in realizing that they belong to the superior sex. They think that, because they know every thought rattling around in their man's head, that his antennae should be likewise. This can give rise to unfortunate scenes, as when he comes home and she looks up from her women's magazine and demands "Hey! Why don't you ever affirm my personhood?"

In the sex-war, thoughtlessness is the weapon of the male, vindictiveness of the female.
--Cyril Connolly

306 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:56:57pm

Iceland

307 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:57:29pm

1re: #304 Charles

I'm tempted to start disemvoweling instead of deleting here. And then if a troll shows that he/she is especially nasty, instead of banning put them on auto-disemvowel.

It might be pretty hilarious.

The actual code to do it is trivial:

preg_replace('/[a%P%e%P%i%P%o%P%u]/is', '', $thecomment);

AWESOME

308 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:58:21pm

re: #304 Charles

I hope you at least try it out and see what happens.

309 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:58:26pm

re: #305 The Sanity Inspector

claps arm around Guanxi88's shoulder...

Not your fault, buddy-ro. Some women are just late in realizing that they belong to the superior sex. They think that, because they know every thought rattling around in their man's head, that his antennae should be likewise. This can give rise to unfortunate scenes, as when he comes home and she looks up from her women's magazine and demands "Hey! Why don't you ever affirm my personhood?"

In the sex-war, thoughtlessness is the weapon of the male, vindictiveness of the female.
--Cyril Connolly

yeah, my wife has concluded that - unlike breaking the dog of pissing on the rug - I'm sorta a hopeless case, so she's resigned herself to it.

310 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:58:48pm

re: #304 Charles

I'm tempted to start disemvoweling instead of deleting here. And then if a troll shows that he/she is especially nasty, instead of banning put them on auto-disemvowel.

It might be pretty hilarious.

The actual code to do it is trivial:

preg_replace('/[a%P%e%P%i%P%o%P%u]/is', '', $thecomment);

Ooh, I didn't even know you could put someone on auto-disemvowel. I guess that must be what PZ and some others do--
It really is hilarious, because the blog owner can be asleep and the troll will manically keep posting, as if on the 20th try in a row this! one! comment! will get through.

311 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:58:52pm

re: #296 Obdicut

A Jamaican friend of mind did a rasta version of Stairway To Heaven. That ruled.

Jamaicans are supreme masters at that...they can cover anything in reggae

312 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:59:23pm

re: #304 Charles

I'm tempted to start disemvoweling instead of deleting here. And then if a troll shows that he/she is especially nasty, instead of banning put them on auto-disemvowel.

It might be pretty hilarious.

The actual code to do it is trivial:

preg_replace('/[a%P%e%P%i%P%o%P%u]/is', '', $thecomment);

You could "Fudderize" them as well...

Fudderizer excercise

We used to do that at a Unix bbs I was at long ago...

313 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 5:59:44pm

re: #297 iceweasel

Welcome back, DF!

Thanks. You should know that you and Charles are the target of buzzsawmonkey's latest round of invective over at the Stalker blog. It's a yet another BSM song parody that charmingly refers to iceweasel as "rabid". The full explanation for why he's doing this seems to be that iceweasel lives in his head.

314 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:00:01pm

re: #275 Jeff In Ohio

Yes, yes, yes!!! Sisters in Raleigh, lived for a bit in Greenville, been going to Hatteras Island since I was 5, played dozens of times in the Ashville, Black Mountain area as well as the Triangle. If I hadn't married a local girl, I'd be gone, daddy, gone, gone from Ohio.

:D I grew up in the shadow of Charlotte, vacationed a lot in the Smokies as a child, and come from a long line of eastern NC dirt farmers.

315 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:00:49pm

re: #305 The Sanity Inspector

claps arm around Guanxi88's shoulder...

Not your fault, buddy-ro. Some women are just late in realizing that they belong to the superior sex. They think that, because they know every thought rattling around in their man's head, that his antennae should be likewise. This can give rise to unfortunate scenes, as when he comes home and she looks up from her women's magazine and demands "Hey! Why don't you ever affirm my personhood?"

In the sex-war, thoughtlessness is the weapon of the male, vindictiveness of the female.
--Cyril Connolly

Give her credit, though, she's taken lemons (me) and made lemonade. These little "flukes" of mine are used as weapons in dealing with others. She gives me the nod, and by gadfrey! things are gonna get weird.

Nothing worse than a pissed-off Aspie who's just been given permission to "go with it" and say what's on his mind.

316 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:01:06pm

re: #313 Dark_Falcon

Thanks. You should know that you and Charles are the target of buzzsawmonkey's latest round of invective over at the Stalker blog. It's a yet another BSM song parody that charmingly refers to iceweasel as "rabid". The full explanation for why he's doing this seems to be that iceweasel lives in his head.

Actually, Charles lives in his head, and mullah buzzsaw is a misogynistic fuckwad. I'm just standing in for all women for him.

317 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:04:09pm

re: #296 Obdicut

A Jamaican friend of mind did a rasta version of Stairway To Heaven. That ruled.

Did it sound like this?

Dread Zeppelin was a reggae Zep tribute band, fronted by an Elvis impersonator.

318 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:04:31pm

re: #313 Dark_Falcon

Thanks. You should know that you and Charles are the target of buzzsawmonkey's latest round of invective over at the Stalker blog. It's a yet another BSM song parody that charmingly refers to iceweasel as "rabid". The full explanation for why he's doing this seems to be that iceweasel lives in his head.

BTW, mullah buzzsaw most definitely is the person on dangerous minds charles already pointed out. Simultaneous posting on the stalker blog about rachel corrie, involving a very charming image of her 'sucking off' all of hamas, then the comment on DM, and then full shrieking poo-flinging howler monkey outrage on the stalker blog when cj busted him here.

319 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:05:08pm

re: #317 The Sanity Inspector

That's beautiful man.

And my friend just did the reggae-style singing with the straight song, rather than an altered one. Was amazing how well it worked.

320 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:05:15pm

re: #314 The Sanity Inspector

:D I grew up in the shadow of Charlotte, vacationed a lot in the Smokies as a child, and come from a long line of eastern NC dirt farmers.

AH, Charlotte. We use to play this joint north of downtown called Pucketts Farm Equipment. Always a good time.

321 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:05:34pm

is this the FNST?

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:06:02pm

re: #286 Obdicut

I knew a dude in Chicago who raised 'jew-hating' dogs. His dogs loved me. He wasn't that bright.

Maybe the dogs were just smarter.

323 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:06:10pm

The dialectizer

[Link: www.rinkworks.com...]

324 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:07:00pm

re: #293 reine.de.tout

was there something wrong with your head?

I had/have a sore gland or something in my mouth, that was making my ear hurt. Huge amounts of ibuprofen are helping greatly.

325 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:07:14pm

re: #313 Dark_Falcon

Thanks. You should know that you and Charles are the target of buzzsawmonkey's latest round of invective over at the Stalker blog. It's a yet another BSM song parody that charmingly refers to iceweasel as "rabid". The full explanation for why he's doing this seems to be that iceweasel lives in his head.

"buzzsawmonkey" is one of the crackheads who's posting at every site I link to. He's also the one using LGF readers' names at Dangerous Minds.

And he's been sending me really messed-up emails full of weird homophobic insults, over and over, every day for months -- emails that get automatically filed in the trash unread, like everything that comes through the contact form with a proxy IP.

He needs psychological help, but he's too insane to know it. I feel sorry for anyone who has to be around him in real life.

326 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:07:31pm

re: #316 iceweasel

Actually, Charles lives in his head, and mullah buzzsaw is a misogynistic fuckwad. I'm just standing in for all women for him.

Indeed. He clearly doesn't like catching flak and so turned to intense hostility. Thusly:

327 BenghaziHoops  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:08:00pm

re: #310 iceweasel

Back when the web started there was something called IRC.. The beginning of all chat/blog/IM in History..
There were script programs called eggbots that reviewed the room and offered access with rules.. It's old school..
Someday to post on a blog you will be reviewed by a personal robot..
A personal agent will determine your fate on a thread until further review by the owner...
Eggbots+20 years....
Tools

328 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:08:22pm

re: #301 Jeff In Ohio

My dad spent 4 years as a battalion scout in the Pacific jungle in WWII. One of the (many) things he goes on about was being able to tell how long a Japanese camp had been vacated by the strength of the odor the Japanese men left behind.

A lot of Asians insist that Westerners smell odd, as well. I think it may have something to do with diet.

329 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:08:28pm

re: #325 Charles

"buzzsawmonkey" is one of the crackheads who's posting at every site I link to. He's also the one using LGF readers' names at Dangerous Minds.

And he's been sending me really messed-up emails full of weird homophobic insults, over and over, every day for months -- emails that get automatically filed in the trash unread, like everything that comes through the contact form with a proxy IP.

He needs psychological help, but he's too insane to know it. I feel sorry for anyone who has to be around him in real life.

This is the same person that use to post here under that name?

330 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:08:50pm

re: #329 Walter L. Newton

This is the same person that use to post here under that name?

Indeed it is.

331 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:09:27pm

re: #327 HoosierHoops

The game "Kingdom of Loathing" requires people to pass an English language proficiency test before they're allowed to talk in the chat channels.

332 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:09:48pm

re: #327 HoosierHoops

Back when the web started there was something called IRC.. The beginning of all chat/blog/IM in History..
There were script programs called eggbots that reviewed the room and offered access with rules.. It's old school..
Someday to post on a blog you will be reviewed by a personal robot..
A personal agent will determine your fate on a thread until further review by the owner...
Eggbots+20 years...
Tools

Yep, I suspect Charles has an automated stinky sock check machine...

333 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:10:44pm

re: #318 iceweasel

BTW, mullah buzzsaw most definitely is the person on dangerous minds charles already pointed out. Simultaneous posting on the stalker blog about rachel corrie, involving a very charming image of her 'sucking off' all of hamas, then the comment on DM, and then full shrieking poo-flinging howler monkey outrage on the stalker blog when cj busted him here.

"Dangerous Minds" would seem to describe the man. He is clearly clever but he wastes that cleverness blogstalking Charles and venting misogyny.

334 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:10:54pm

re: #328 SanFranciscoZionist

A lot of Asians insist that Westerners smell odd, as well. I think it may have something to do with diet.

Yes, in part, i think it's the beef. A lot of the chinese I know say they hate summertime, cause westerners smell like cold cooked beef when they sweat.

I've noted a similar thing with some lower-class new arrivals from China - there's this oyster-sauce odor to them when they sweat.

335 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:13:25pm

re: #328 SanFranciscoZionist

A lot of Asians insist that Westerners smell odd, as well. I think it may have something to do with diet.

No doubt. And just so I'm clear, not odd, but distinctive. My old man witnessed a lot of shit in his life and never hated a single human that I could tell (well, except for officers).

336 reine.de.tout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:13:35pm

re: #328 SanFranciscoZionist

A lot of Asians insist that Westerners smell odd, as well. I think it may have something to do with diet.

I think you are correct.
When I was in college a gajillion years ago, my neighbors were a family from AFrica, I forget which country. But they smelled exactly like the food they ate, or probably more accurately, the spices they used in their food..

337 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:13:59pm

re: #251 BartB

Can anyone spell "Cold Fusion"?
It's hard to look at a piece of code and say what the whole program will do. However, comma, there appear to be serious problems with the raw data.
GIGO still applies, and the data appear suspect.
Are the entire programs public? When the IEEE plans a new standard, the proposals are public for a couple of years and are picked to death.
At the end of that time, with thousands of qualified people making their comments, the product is pretty reliable.
That does not seem to be the situation regarding AGW.

I guess I missed seeing the woodwork opening up.

What serious problem with what raw data?

338 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:15:06pm

Glenn Beck blames World War II on progressive oppression of Japan (Not kidding)
Beck: Pearl Harbor bombed "because Woodrow Wilson told England, 'You need to align yourself with us and not Japan' "

339 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:15:35pm

re: #334 Guanxi88

Yes, in part, i think it's the beef. A lot of the chinese I know say they hate summertime, cause westerners smell like cold cooked beef when they sweat.

I've noted a similar thing with some lower-class new arrivals from China - there's this oyster-sauce odor to them when they sweat.


Former Navy SEAL Richard Marcinko said that he and his team would eat fermented fish soup for days before a mission, so that they would smell like Vietnamese while they were creeping around VC emplacements.

340 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:17:11pm

re: #333 Dark_Falcon

"Dangerous Minds" would seem to describe the man. He is clearly clever but he wastes that cleverness blogstalking Charles and venting misogyny.

Actually, no. He isn't that clever. That's why he turns into a howling poo-flinging monkey at any criticism or disagreement.

Bullshit monkey put me on his shitlist forever not for being a woman or a lib, but because he claimed to have 'given lectures' about noir fiction.
I asked him very nicely about that, and it rapidly became clear he was ignorant of some stuff that anyone teaching noir fiction would know.

I'm quite serious when I say that bs monkey is an intellectual fraud and perceives himself as a failure, which is why it is so extremely important to him that he be perceived on the internet as clever.

I've paid attention to him, and like Charles I feel very sorry for anyone who knows him in real life.
Some really sick stuff being posted by him under his own name on stalker sites, btw.
He needs help.

341 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:17:30pm

re: #339 The Sanity Inspector

Former Navy SEAL Richard Marcinko said that he and his team would eat fermented fish soup for days before a mission, so that they would smell like Vietnamese while they were creeping around VC emplacements.

makes sense - humans excrete in more ways than we know, and most of what we take in goes out in metabolites or otherwise.

342 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:17:41pm

re: #251 BartB

Can anyone speww "Cowd Fusion"? It's hawd to wook at a piece of code and say what the whowe pwogwam wiww do. Howevew, comma, thewe appeaw to be sewious pwobwems wif the waw data. GIGO stiww appwies, and the data appeaw suspect. Awe the entiwe pwogwams pubwic? When the IEEE pwans a new standawd, the pwoposaws awe pubwic fow a coupwe of yeaws and awe picked to death. At the end of that time, wif thousands of qwawified peopwe making theiw comments, the pwoduct is pwetty wewiabwe. Dat does not seem to be the situation wegawding AGW.

The entiwe pwogwams awe pubwic.

343 BenghaziHoops  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:17:42pm

re: #332 Thanos

Yep, I suspect Charles has an automated stinky sock check machine...

The tools of technology have not kept up with the speed of advancements in modern blogs.
But it will...
In the old days when you logged into a channel a robot read you the rules before you made your first posts...And a script program reported key words to the owner..Good old eggbots...
The tools are coming..I love technology!

344 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:18:04pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Who the fuck is the web designer for Media Matters? It could be a useful site (especially these days) but the format is unreadable.

345 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:18:14pm

Jaron Lanier's new book really is great. He makes a very compelling argument that the design of the Internet was influenced in the beginning by leftist libertarians, making it inevitable that the web would be used for stalking, trolling, and other dysfunctional pursuits.

I think he's right. The inherent anonymity of the stateless Internet has enabled all kinds of really bad stuff, from credit card fraud to sexual predators to people like "buzzsawmonkey."

I'm about half finished with the book, and I highly recommend it. Here's the Amazon link: You Are Not a Gadget: A Manifesto.

346 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:19:40pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck blames World War II on progressive oppression of Japan (Not kidding)
Beck: Pearl Harbor bombed "because Woodrow Wilson told England, 'You need to align yourself with us and not Japan' "

Beck: "Did we give up when the Germans Woodrow Wilson bombed Pearl Harbor?!"

Rodger Ailes: "He's rolling (up our credibility)."

Please Mr. Ailes, fire that buffoon and put in someone who actually cares about the truth. Do it for sanity, if nothing else.

347 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:20:55pm

re: #333 Dark_Falcon

"Dangerous Minds" would seem to describe the man. He is clearly clever but he wastes that cleverness blogstalking Charles and venting misogyny.

His vocabulary word for today is "cathexis."

348 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:21:17pm

re: #286 Obdicut

I knew a dude in Chicago who raised 'jew-hating' dogs. His dogs loved me. He wasn't that bright.

My wife is aboriginal. We visited my dad's GF a few years ago where we met a rather large long haired German Shepard who absolutely loved my wife. I later ran into the paternal GF's teen aged grandkids who proceeded to tell me how much their dog hated Indians. I told them they were full of shit, nothing but rednecks and to FO. Just before we left the next day, my wife and I played with the dog for 15 minutes or so.

349 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:22:15pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck blames World War II on progressive oppression of Japan (Not kidding)
Beck: Pearl Harbor bombed "because Woodrow Wilson told England, 'You need to align yourself with us and not Japan' "

The Glenn Beck Meltdown is proceeding nicely.

350 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:22:25pm

re: #345 Charles

Jaron Lanier's new book really is great. He makes a very compelling argument that the design of the Internet was influenced in the beginning by leftist libertarians, making it inevitable that the web would be used for stalking, trolling, and other dysfunctional pursuits.

I think he's right. The inherent anonymity of the stateless Internet has enabled all kinds of really bad stuff, from credit card fraud to sexual predators to people like "buzzsawmonkey."

I'm about half finished with the book, and I highly recommend it. Here's the Amazon link: You Are Not a Gadget: A Manifesto.

I've wavered back and forth on the subject of net anonymity several times, there are things to be said for elder tech of the LECs. You can be anon when you make a phone call, but if you say something dangerous or threatening they can track your ass down easy. Now with Skype etc. that's going away. Even though I blog anon as a thin sham to distance myself from employer, it's not something I am in favor of. (If anyone wants to know who I am that's easy enough to find out...)

351 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:23:18pm

re: #333 Dark_Falcon

"Dangerous Minds" would seem to describe the man. He is clearly clever but he wastes that cleverness blogstalking Charles and venting misogyny.

He's not clever. He's mentally ill. Mental illness often presents itself as cleverness.

352 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:24:02pm

re: #346 Dark_Falcon

Please Mr. Ailes, fire that buffoon and put in someone who actually cares about the truth. Do it for sanity, if nothing else.


I don't think enough people on that side are interested in what's true these days. If it was just Fox it wouldn't be a problem. Elected Republican representatives can't come up with honest objections to healthcare reform or financial reform and rely on the same dishonest talking points. Honesty and reality are the last thing today's Republicans want to deal with.

353 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:25:05pm

re: #349 Charles

The Glenn Beck Meltdown is proceeding nicely.

He's very close to Buchanan's thesis that we humiliated the Germans into starting WWII.

354 HypnoToad  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:26:17pm

re: #340 iceweasel

The one thing that has really bothered me over the years I've been reading this site, has been when long-time posters who I've grown to respect and enjoy through their posts, go flying off the rails. I guess that I really don't understand human nature like I should.

355 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:26:43pm

re: #353 Killgore Trout

He's very close to Buchanan's thesis that we humiliated the Germans into starting WWII.

The 'backstab' idiom has been popular on the right for a long, long time.

356 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:26:44pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck blames World War II on progressive oppression of Japan (Not kidding)
Beck: Pearl Harbor bombed "because Woodrow Wilson told England, 'You need to align yourself with us and not Japan' "

Choice line: "Unless you're specking at Barack Obama's inauguration, then you still refer to people as 'the yellow man'." Thanks much for the racist lying Beck, you douche.

357 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:27:12pm

OK, who the hell scared away BartB?

358 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:27:45pm

re: #357 b_sharp

OK, who the hell scared away BartB?

You did. Have you looked at your avatar lately?

359 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:27:54pm

re: #354 HypnoToad

The one thing that has really bothered me over the years I've been reading this site, has been when long-time posters who I've grown to respect and enjoy through their posts, go flying off the rails. I guess that I really don't understand human nature like I should.

To quote Tom Reagan:

Nobody knows anybody, not that well.

360 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:28:57pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

You did. Have you looked at your avatar lately?

he's right, man. Ya need to shave.

361 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:29:27pm

re: #360 Guanxi88

he's right, man. Ya need to shave.

Shave... more like see a doctor.

362 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:30:12pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

You did. Have you looked at your avatar lately?

I forgot to shave. So sue me.

363 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:30:40pm

re: #354 HypnoToad

The one thing that has really bothered me over the years I've been reading this site, has been when long-time posters who I've grown to respect and enjoy through their posts, go flying off the rails. I guess that I really don't understand human nature like I should.

It's pretty damned freaky.
I checked out some reviews of the Lanier book when Charles first mentioned it. As someone with a long-time interest in the dysfunctional aspects of the internet, I plan to read it.
Even with my prior knowledge of web dysfunction, I've personally found some of the dysfunction swirling around the LGF haters to be breathtaking. There are people who I vaguely 'knew' -- and liked!-- purely as posters here, who seemed rational here-- who are not at all rational.

364 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:30:48pm

re: #354 HypnoToad

The one thing that has really bothered me over the years I've been reading this site, has been when long-time posters who I've grown to respect and enjoy through their posts, go flying off the rails. I guess that I really don't understand human nature like I should.

You can recognize the ones who are eventually going to head down that path very easily. They tend to go monomaniacal on single subjects, will never admit being wrong on even the smallest jot even when being shown overwhelmingly how out of synch with reality they are, and they lose all sense of humor.

365 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:30:59pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck blames World War II on progressive oppression of Japan (Not kidding)
Beck: Pearl Harbor bombed "because Woodrow Wilson told England, 'You need to align yourself with us and not Japan' "

Yes, without Wilson's interference England quite obviously would have aligned itself with a Nanking raping Imperial Japan, that makes sense.

So ... apparently Glenn Beck huffs paint. Gold paint.

366 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:31:16pm

re: #340 iceweasel

Actually, no. He isn't that clever. That's why he turns into a howling poo-flinging monkey at any criticism or disagreement.

Bullshit monkey put me on his shitlist forever not for being a woman or a lib, but because he claimed to have 'given lectures' about noir fiction.
I asked him very nicely about that, and it rapidly became clear he was ignorant of some stuff that anyone teaching noir fiction would know.

I'm quite serious when I say that bs monkey is an intellectual fraud and perceives himself as a failure, which is why it is so extremely important to him that he be perceived on the internet as clever.

I've paid attention to him, and like Charles I feel very sorry for anyone who knows him in real life.
Some really sick stuff being posted by him under his own name on stalker sites, btw.
He needs help.

Absolutely correct ice-ski. For all his pompous, verbose flannel, bs monkey couldn't argue his way out of a paper bag. As soon as he started losing an argument with you, me, sal or anyone else who challenged his bullshit, he would resort to his purple-faced personal attacks.

367 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:31:35pm

re: #361 Walter L. Newton

Shave... more like see a doctor.

Oh that? My mother was a poodle.

368 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:32:24pm

re: #361 Walter L. Newton

Shave... more like see a doctor.

I know a specialist: Dr. Malavaqua

369 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:32:47pm

re: #349 Charles

The Glenn Beck Meltdown is proceeding nicely.

and he's wrong about the UK's break with Japan. The cause of that was the Washington Naval Treaty (which was negotiated in the summer and fall of 1921 (after Wilson had left office in April). The treaty was negotiated by the administration of Warren G. Harding, a Republican. If however that fact were made plain to Beck, he would of course promptly call Harding a "RINO!!1".

370 simoom  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:34:29pm

re: #250 Charles

Did you know there's a whole genre of YouTube videos dedicated to showing dogs who hate President Obama?

Dog hates Obama

I didn't realize it had become a fad, by I did see one a while back that was posted over at Wonkette. Here it is:

No Treats From Obama

Would you like to have a treat?
Here's a treat from Mom.
Here's one from Dad.
Here's one from Barack Obama ...
371 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:35:23pm

re: #221 Jeff In Ohio

Cool beans. Lot's of great stuff going on in North Carolina. I miss not being there...sigh.

By the way, there's a reason I jumped on you for that. I miss not being in Baltimore. As in, I miss Massachusetts, Maine, Colorado, New Mexico (most particularly) and the Mojave desert. I did not miss Baltimore while I was not here.

372 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:36:23pm

re: #371 Cato the Elder

By the way, there's a reason I jumped on you for that. I miss not being in Baltimore. As in, I miss Massachusetts, Maine, Colorado, New Mexico (most particularly) and the Mojave desert. I did not miss Baltimore while I was not here.

baltimore, huh? You any kin to that Mencken fellow? You remind me of him sometimes.

373 BenghaziHoops  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:36:38pm

re: #340 iceweasel

Actually, no. He isn't that clever. That's why he turns into a howling poo-flinging monkey at any criticism or disagreement.

Bullshit monkey put me on his shitlist forever not for being a woman or a lib, but because he claimed to have 'given lectures' about noir fiction.
I asked him very nicely about that, and it rapidly became clear he was ignorant of some stuff that anyone teaching noir fiction would know.

I'm quite serious when I say that bs monkey is an intellectual fraud and perceives himself as a failure, which is why it is so extremely important to him that he be perceived on the internet as clever.

I've paid attention to him, and like Charles I feel very sorry for anyone who knows him in real life.
Some really sick stuff being posted by him under his own name on stalker sites, btw.
He needs help.

My dear friend.. I don't know about that stuff..
This is what I do know.. When confronted with another political idea Buzzsaw
went off on you..He just started snapping...It was at that point I first posted about a man being so intimidated that he ends up in the corner in a fetal position sucking his thumb...Unsightly with hate of woman in my view.
No Class Buzzsaw

374 [deleted]  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:36:45pm
375 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:37:25pm

re: #374 Cato the Elder

I'll ask Alouette if she can oblige.

What?

376 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:38:52pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck blames World War II on progressive oppression of Japan (Not kidding)
Beck: Pearl Harbor bombed "because Woodrow Wilson told England, 'You need to align yourself with us and not Japan' "

I'm sitting here, trying to think of something useful to say.

Nothing much is occurring to me.

I mean, we could have a discussion about industrialization, and the development of twentieth-century Japanese nationalism. But I don't think that's exactly what Beck means.

Is there a moral he draws from this theory? Maybe that we should encourage England to trade with Japan more?

Blink. Blink.

377 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:40:19pm

re: #367 b_sharp

Oh that? My mother was a poodle.

Reminds me of my own dear sainted mother and one of our more heated discussions:

She's settled into one of her cold furious rants and lays into me with some comment ending in "...and that's why you're a wretched son of a bitch."

I grin and say "You don't see the humor in that, do you?"

There was a pause, our eyes meet in pure shared mirth, and then she slapped the taste right outta my mouth, but laughing as she did so.

378 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:40:30pm

re: #374 Cato the Elder

DAMMIT!

That was meant for #248. And it's the forty-second time that's happened since I got these new Prog glasses. They make you skip ahead. Which is the problem with Progressives everywhere, come to think of it. We go:

Plan to Save the World:

1. Start making plan
2. [...]
3. [...]
[...]
X. World saved!

Sorry, Alouette, I meant no innuendo.

379 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:40:54pm

re: #376 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sitting here, trying to think of something useful to say.

Nothing much is occurring to me.

I mean, we could have a discussion about industrialization, and the development of twentieth-century Japanese nationalism. But I don't think that's exactly what Beck means.

Is there a moral he draws from this theory? Maybe that we should encourage England to trade with Japan more?

Blink. Blink.

Does Beck know what he's talking about? Ever?

380 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:41:05pm

re: #361 Walter L. Newton

Shave... more like see a doctor.

Walter, you should actually look at the current thread over on the stalker blog. Bunk X has shown up and is posting your correspondence over there along with his insults. I'm letting you know so you can clear the record where needed.

381 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:41:10pm

re: #339 The Sanity Inspector

Former Navy SEAL Richard Marcinko said that he and his team would eat fermented fish soup for days before a mission, so that they would smell like Vietnamese while they were creeping around VC emplacements.

Now that is interesting. Was this something that started because they noticed they could be smelled out as infiltrators, or was it just something they thought of doing?

382 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:41:28pm

re: #375 Walter L. Newton

What?

See #378. Charles, would you please delete #374?

383 Stanghazi  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:41:50pm

re: #376 SanFranciscoZionist

Every day (not every time like it used to be) that I hear of Beck's newest antic, I just say "again?" in my Rocky from Bullwinkle voice.

384 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:43:30pm

re: #372 Guanxi88

baltimore, huh? You any kin to that Mencken fellow? You remind me of him sometimes.

What a very flattering thing to hear! He's one of my role models.

385 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:44:33pm

re: #348 b_sharp

My wife is aboriginal. We visited my dad's GF a few years ago where we met a rather large long haired German Shepard who absolutely loved my wife. I later ran into the paternal GF's teen aged grandkids who proceeded to tell me how much their dog hated Indians. I told them they were full of shit, nothing but rednecks and to FO. Just before we left the next day, my wife and I played with the dog for 15 minutes or so.

I doubt dogs react to race as much as they react to the signals their people give off about others. Left to their own devices, why would a dog care about slight variations in the single breed that is people?

386 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:44:40pm

re: #384 Cato the Elder

What a very flattering thing to hear! He's one of my role models.

meant that way. He was one of the first writers I came across who disabused me of the notion that we Yanks are just borrowing our language and culture. The man's a true treasure, and a first-rate intellect.

387 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:45:16pm

re: #380 Dark_Falcon

Walter, you should actually look at the current thread over on the stalker blog. Bunk X has shown up and is posting your correspondence over there along with his insults. I'm letting you know so you can clear the record where needed.

Which stalker blog? You mean the blog where they posted my essay on Ian Harris' document?

If he posted the full thread of emails between himself and me, then really there is no problem, since I posted them here once, and the whole thread of emails shows how vile and nasty some of those folk are.

Why would "Bunk X" post emails from me that so aptly describe the problems with that blog?

Kind of self-defeating, isn't it.

388 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:45:47pm

re: #376 SanFranciscoZionist


Yeah, it's a new one to me too. I'm not sure exactly where it comes from but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it's the standard Birch Society line on WWII. The Paulians are pretty serious isolationists and the previous tie they used to share with the left under the Bush regime was that the US and European colonialism is responsible for all the world's problems. Sadly, this is now becoming a "conservative" line of thought as well.
For now we can still see vestiges of was the American right was. All that's being pretty rapidly erased. In another 12 months the American right is going to be unrecognizable.

389 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:45:56pm

re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist

I doubt dogs react to race as much as they react to the signals their people give off about others. Left to their own devices, why would a dog care about slight variations in the single breed that is people?

You are exactly right.

390 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:46:12pm

re: #381 SanFranciscoZionist

Now that is interesting. Was this something that started because they noticed they could be smelled out as infiltrators, or was it just something they thought of doing?

seems fitting...the strong odor of IJ troops in the jungle is well documented fact, especially by the Aussies, who fought in the very worst jungle conditions of all the Allies...my own dad talked about it...everything in the jungle smells stronger, more profound...soooo, as for us smelling them, then the reverse must be true

391 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:46:27pm

re: #379 b_sharp

Does Beck know what he's talking about? Ever?

Possibly, but I usually have no idea what he's driving at.

392 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:47:07pm

re: #382 Cato the Elder

See #378. Charles, would you please delete #374?

get your shit together, comrade

393 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:47:31pm
394 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:47:46pm

re: #387 Walter L. Newton

Which stalker blog? You mean the blog where they posted my essay on Ian Harris' document?

If he posted the full thread of emails between himself and me, then really there is no problem, since I posted them here once, and the whole thread of emails shows how vile and nasty some of those folk are.

Why would "Bunk X" post emails from me that so aptly describe the problems with that blog?

Kind of self-defeating, isn't it.

Yes, it is. I only told you to make sure you knew. I always want to make sure that when someone starts posting correspondence, the party to same knows so they can check it.

395 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:48:50pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

Yeah, this was predictable....

....Welch circulated a letter calling President Dwight D. Eisenhower a possible "conscious, dedicated agent of the Communist Conspiracy."[26] The controversial paragraph was removed before final publication of The Politician.[27] Welch also wrote that President Franklin D. Roosevelt knew about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in advance, but said nothing because he wanted to get the U.S. involved in World War II.
396 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:49:19pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it's a new one to me too. I'm not sure exactly where it comes from but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it's the standard Birch Society line on WWII. The Paulians are pretty serious isolationists and the previous tie they used to share with the left under the Bush regime was that the US and European colonialism is responsible for all the world's problems. Sadly, this is now becoming a "conservative" line of thought as well.
For now we can still see vestiges of was the American right was. All that's being pretty rapidly erased. In another 12 months the American right is going to be unrecognizable.

This is just weird. I mean, I used to think the right wing was pretty wrong-headed about many things, but in, you know, rational ways. Now they're all over the damn place, and I see stuff that sounds like my moonbat college friends' stuff coming from Glenn Beck. Too bizarre.

397 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:50:21pm

re: #394 Dark_Falcon

Yes, it is. I only told you to make sure you knew. I always want to make sure that when someone starts posting correspondence, the party to same knows so they can check it.

Thanks... no I didn't know. But if it's the whole intact thread of 3-4 emails from me to Bunk, that's really stupid, unless they thrive on the all the negative attention that I give them in the emails.

398 HypnoToad  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:50:34pm

Stop the world, I wanna get off!

A year and a half ago, I was comfortably republican, assuming that my party and most of its members were rational, skeptical of AGW, ignoring the religious right, laughing at and fearing the machinations of liberals, and living my somewhat isolated life.

Now, I've learned and changed, fear the direction my party has taken, and am actually reading and replying to libs on this blog!

What have I become? I still hold to my values, but don't know where I belong anymore. Is there a place for a fiscally conservative, socially moderate, athiest nerd? (other than here of course)

399 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:51:03pm

re: #373 HoosierHoops

My dear friend.. I don't know about that stuff..
This is what I do know.. When confronted with another political idea Buzzsaw
went off on you..He just started snapping...It was at that point I first posted about a man being so intimidated that he ends up in the corner in a fetal position sucking his thumb...Unsightly with hate of woman in my view.
No Class Buzzsaw

Cheers Hoops.

He would have lost his shit inevitably towards me, for being female and a lib. (and not properly deferential towards him).

But he first lost it because of this conversation about noir fiction, and the problem was that he knew at that moment that I knew he was a fraud.
It was a perfectly pleasant conversation, btw, but he didn't know something he should have known. Nobody else reading knew, probably, but I did and he did. And that's why he lost it.
Next thing I knew, he was downdinging me to heck and calling me horrible names.
BTW, he was always a raging homophobe as well. And a misogynist. We would have clashed anyway but that wasn't the initial reason for his raging hate-on for me.

I don't have any problems believing he's been sending obscene, abusive, and homophobic emails to Charles for months, because he's been posting such screeds every day since he was banned (and posted some here as well before that).

400 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:51:13pm

re: #395 Killgore Trout

Yeah, this was predictable...

The whole "Roosevelt knew" thing's been around since December 8th, as it were. There was very strong anti-war opinion in this country; some folk were still pissed about the Great War, and didn't want to get tangled up in another one. Others thought the New Europe that was taking shape was the wave of the future, and feared we'd end up on the wrong side.

And there were whacky folk ready, willing, and able to supply any excuse to support this inclination.

401 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:51:14pm

re: #398 HypnoToad

Stop the world, I wanna get off!

A year and a half ago, I was comfortably republican, assuming that my party and most of its members were rational, skeptical of AGW, ignoring the religious right, laughing at and fearing the machinations of liberals, and living my somewhat isolated life.

Now, I've learned and changed, fear the direction my party has taken, and am actually reading and replying to libs on this blog!

What have I become? I still hold to my values, but don't know where I belong anymore. Is there a place for a fiscally conservative, socially moderate, athiest nerd? (other than here of course)

I don't know, but your avatar is very neat, if that helps.

402 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:51:45pm

re: #395 Killgore Trout

Yeah, this was predictable...

More Bircher Propaganda from Beck. I'm not sure what's worse: That he mainstreams conspriracy theories, or that FOX lets him do it.

403 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:52:01pm

re: #398 HypnoToad

I still hold to my values, but don't know where I belong anymore. Is there a place for a fiscally conservative, socially moderate, athiest nerd? (other than here of course)

Any good engineering, IT, or accounting firm.

404 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:52:17pm

re: #402 Dark_Falcon

More Bircher Propaganda from Beck. I'm not sure what's worse: That he mainstreams conspriracy theories, or that FOX lets him do it.

Didn't they used to not let Birchers into the Army?

405 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:52:18pm

re: #398 HypnoToad

Stop the world, I wanna get off!

A year and a half ago, I was comfortably republican, assuming that my party and most of its members were rational, skeptical of AGW, ignoring the religious right, laughing at and fearing the machinations of liberals, and living my somewhat isolated life.

Now, I've learned and changed, fear the direction my party has taken, and am actually reading and replying to libs on this blog!

What have I become? I still hold to my values, but don't know where I belong anymore. Is there a place for a fiscally conservative, socially moderate, athiest nerd? (other than here of course)

Get a grip :)

406 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:52:25pm
407 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:53:12pm

re: #398 HypnoToad

Stop the world, I wanna get off!

A year and a half ago, I was comfortably republican, assuming that my party and most of its members were rational, skeptical of AGW, ignoring the religious right, laughing at and fearing the machinations of liberals, and living my somewhat isolated life.

Now, I've learned and changed, fear the direction my party has taken, and am actually reading and replying to libs on this blog!

What have I become? I still hold to my values, but don't know where I belong anymore. Is there a place for a fiscally conservative, socially moderate, athiest nerd? (other than here of course)

darwincentral.org

408 Cato the Elder  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:53:54pm

re: #248 Thanos

To make that right you really need to replace Cartoon Calvin's face with Dominionist Calvin's face...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I'll have to ask Alouette if she can oblige.

409 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:54:08pm

re: #378 Cato the Elder

And it's the forty-second time that's happened since I got these new Prog glasses.

What are Prog glasses? Are the like the glasses worn by members of King Crimson, Gentle Giant, and Pink Floyd over the years? If so, they're just the same as regular glasses, but they're in a 13/16 time signature, subdivided 5/8 and 4/4.

410 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:54:16pm

re: #406 Thanos

Frozen Decay
[Link: noblesseoblige.org...]

Very nice.

411 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:54:19pm

re: #400 Guanxi88

The whole "Roosevelt knew" thing's been around since December 8th, as it were. There was very strong anti-war opinion in this country; some folk were still pissed about the Great War, and didn't want to get tangled up in another one. Others thought the New Europe that was taking shape was the wave of the future, and feared we'd end up on the wrong side.

And there were whacky folk ready, willing, and able to supply any excuse to support this inclination.

FDR wanted to fight Germany, not necessarily Japan...the more urgent war was Europe by far

412 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:55:14pm

re: #411 albusteve

FDR wanted to fight Germany, not necessarily Japan...the more urgent war was Europe by far

Yep, and the Empire of the Sun was what got us into it, finally. Kinda funny, the way that worked. Sometimes the bad guys just ain't that bright.

413 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:56:27pm

re: #411 albusteve

FDR wanted to fight Germany, not necessarily Japan...the more urgent war was Europe by far

Unless you were Chinese.

414 BenghaziHoops  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:56:50pm

re: #399 iceweasel

You are good people Ice...

415 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:57:19pm

re: #411 albusteve

FDR wanted to fight Germany, not necessarily Japan...the more urgent war was Europe by far

I'd say, by the way, that Japan's hitting the USA was the Pacific version of Hitler invading Russia - it was needless and foolish and was the beginning of the end for them both.

416 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:57:26pm

re: #410 Killgore Trout

Thx...

417 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:58:02pm

OT
The Discovery Channel's Dirty Jobs series with Mike Rowe really outdid itself tonight. They started with a nifty visit to Rancho LaBrea and showed the process of recovering and restoring the fossils there.

Then, though, they lifted the edge of the world and looked underneath when they visited a northern California rendering plant. They pulled no punches, from the smelly truck that picks up the half-decomposed cows to the grotesque grinding machine that swallows them whole to the hellish cellar room where uncured hides are salted and stored. The giant cookers were the worst. This is where ground, half-rotten cow is converted into oil for cosmetics and bone meal for chicken feed, among other things. The show was full of disclaimers, including some from Mike on the spot, about the graphic and disturbing nature of the images. Some of it would have gagged a maggot (many of which were in evidence in the footage).
I've been through two wars and a variety of other unpleasantness but the video made me want to retch just watching. With the smell added in, I almost certainly would have been ill.
Mike's insights into our unwillingness to face the processes we nevertheless use, and from which we profit, approached the level of philosophy. This is honest and necessary work but, as with so many things, it is something most would prefer not to know about. It was really intriguing, if more than a little bit disgusting.

418 BartB  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 6:58:13pm

Just wondering how many of you scientists have duplicated the results from the AGW crowd.
Just wondering how many stations provided data above 65 degrees.
(answer: 1)
Just wondering how many NOAA approved measurements were coming from BBQ pits or AC exhausts.
Just wondering how many millions were spent on and by the unbiased AGW crowd, and where did the money come from?
Just wondering how many people are in the unbiased AGW crowd.

Just wondering...

419 albusteve  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:00:05pm

re: #412 Guanxi88

Yep, and the Empire of the Sun was what got us into it, finally. Kinda funny, the way that worked. Sometimes the bad guys just ain't that bright.

he new the Philippines would fall should it come to that, but Australia was the real worry out there...a mighty long way from the homeland tho....that's why the Aussies simply had to stop Japan in New Guinea, and to take New Guinea they had to have the Solomans....where we stopped them cold and cut up their navy...jus sayin...the Pacific was managable at that point

420 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:00:35pm

re: #413 negativ

Unless you were Chinese.

Ain't that the truth, though? What went on in China when the IJ were there was the sort of stuff that gives one nightmares.

"The unit is pulling out. Make sure you release the bubonic-plague fleas."

421 HypnoToad  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:00:54pm

re: #405 Walter L. Newton

Its difficult. As someone pointed out a couple of months ago, a self induced psychosis is just a lick of my lips away....

422 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:01:38pm

re: #421 HypnoToad

Its difficult. As someone pointed out a couple of months ago, a self induced psychosis is just a lick of my lips away...

I find the occasional melt-down here to be very therapeutic. Oh, and beer.

423 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:03:11pm

re: #418 BartB

Just wondering how many of you scientists have duplicated the results from the AGW crowd.
Just wondering how many stations provided data above 65 degrees.
(answer: 1)
Just wondering how many NOAA approved measurements were coming from BBQ pits or AC exhausts.
Just wondering how many millions were spent on and by the unbiased AGW crowd, and where did the money come from?
Just wondering how many people are in the unbiased AGW crowd.

Just wondering...

You know Bart... and please, take this with all the love I can extend to you... you are a fucking jerk. Where as, in another life, you and I could possibly agree on a few of the problems with certain parts of the process and procedures that revolve around the way some of the climate data was compiled, YOUR talking points have no basis in reality.

You are spewing clip and paste rhetoric and I don't think you could discuss the real issues with anyone, pro or con, skeptic or believer.

Really, if you are going to try to contribute to any side of this debate, come to the table with some facts, but don't waste our time with grammar school levels of discourse like you have done.

Troll.

424 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:03:48pm

re: #418 BartB

Lots have see here
[Link: www.realclimate.org...]

425 BenghaziHoops  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:04:29pm

re: #423 Walter L. Newton

Nice...Thanks Walter...

426 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:04:29pm

re: #420 Guanxi88

Ain't that the truth, though? What went on in China when the IJ were there was the sort of stuff that gives one nightmares.

"The unit is pulling out. Make sure you release the bubonic-plague fleas."

Yargh-- i have to leave this thread and move upstairs if that's the new topic. Talked to someone here the other day who hadn't heard of the Rape of Nanking. If that and Unit 731 et al are on the table I need to be in the other room now, no offense.

427 BenghaziHoops  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:05:44pm

Upstairs..And a new movie on the big screen

428 Randall Gross  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:06:23pm

re: #418 BartB

Just wondewing how many of you scientists have dupwicated the wesuwts fwom the AGW cwowd. Just wondewing how many stations pwovided data above 65 degwees. Oh, dat scwewy wabbit! (answew: 1) Just wondewing how many NOAA appwoved measuwements wewe coming fwom BBQ pits ow AC exhausts. Oh, dat scwewy wabbit! Just wondewing how many miwwions wewe spent on and by the unbiased AGW cwowd, and whewe did the money come fwom? Just wondewing how many peopwe awe in the unbiased AGW cwowd. Just wondewing....

You shew do wondew awot.

429 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:06:33pm

re: #345 Charles

Jaron Lanier's new book really is great. He makes a very compelling argument that the design of the Internet was influenced in the beginning by leftist libertarians, making it inevitable that the web would be used for stalking, trolling, and other dysfunctional pursuits.

I think he's right. The inherent anonymity of the stateless Internet has enabled all kinds of really bad stuff, from credit card fraud to sexual predators to people like "buzzsawmonkey."

I'm about half finished with the book, and I highly recommend it. Here's the Amazon link: You Are Not a Gadget: A Manifesto.

Being on the net is a bit like being in traffic. You're in public and in private at the same time. You can yell at the person in the next car, when you'd never dream of doing the same thing to the person next to you on the escalator.

The net has been very liberating, for both our good and bad sides. We're online, we're connected, we're worldwide...but we're still us.

430 Guanxi88  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:06:36pm

re: #426 iceweasel

Yargh-- i have to leave this thread and move upstairs if that's the new topic. Talked to someone here the other day who hadn't heard of the Rape of Nanking. If that and Unit 731 et al are on the table I need to be in the other room now, no offense.

Not at all; the pity is we have to share a world where such things are possible, never mind accomplished facts.

431 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:06:50pm

re: #423 Walter L. Newton

You know Bart... and please, take this with all the love I can extend to you... you are a fucking jerk. Where as, in another life, you and I could possibly agree on a few of the problems with certain parts of the process and procedures that revolve around the way some of the climate data was compiled, YOUR talking points have no basis in reality.

You are spewing clip and paste rhetoric and I don't think you could discuss the real issues with anyone, pro or con, skeptic or believer.

Really, if you are going to try to contribute to any side of this debate, come to the table with some facts, but don't waste our time with grammar school levels of discourse like you have done.

Troll.

Thank you, Walter. That was a beautifully delivered troll beatdown.

432 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:08:43pm

re: #414 HoosierHoops

You are good people Ice...

I'll second that.

433 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:09:29pm

re: #430 Guanxi88

Not at all; the pity is we have to share a world where such things are possible, never mind accomplished facts.

The good news is that The Imperial Japanese Army that did those foul things was bled white by the US and UK. The Imperial Japanese Navy that rampaged through the Pacific was hammered into wreck by the US Navy. The thing to remember is that we won the war, though the fight was long and the cost high.

434 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:11:00pm

re: #418 BartB

Wow.

Crazy enough?

435 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:19:42pm

re: #417 Shiplord Kirel

I don't know what Mike Rowe gets paid per episode, but it's not nearly enough.

436 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:21:33pm

re: #418 BartB

Just wondering how many of you scientists have duplicated the results from the AGW crowd.
Just wondering how many stations provided data above 65 degrees.
(answer: 1)
Just wondering how many NOAA approved measurements were coming from BBQ pits or AC exhausts.
Just wondering how many millions were spent on and by the unbiased AGW crowd, and where did the money come from?
Just wondering how many people are in the unbiased AGW crowd.

Just wondering...

You're back!

The scientists doing the work have replicated the results many times, each time getting more accurate. That work has gone through peer review.

BTW, have you replicated Newton's, and Einstein's, and Lorenz's and Bohr's and ... work?

Watts' has been shown to be full of shit by a number of groups that have actually done the work Watts should have done and the verdict is the sites he, and apparently you, claim should show a warming bias, show a cooling bias.

See that's what happens when you actually do the numbers rather than just guessing.

How are fields such as quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, fluid dynamics funded? Where do they get their money?

How much money does Moncton make? Tim Ball? Plimer?

How do grants work?

Do you know?

437 Pythagoras  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:23:04pm

re: #20 Rightwingconspirator

Not intending to get personal, but as you live in a gated community you face strict CC&R's. Could you and your neighbors install solar, cisterns etc if you got the city permits?

I'd Love to hear from anyone in a gated residential zone on this.

As far as I know none of the gated communities near HH Island, SC permit solar collectors. There may be some but none of the ones I know of allow such things. My community even bans skylights.

438 b_Snark  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:23:31pm

re: #428 Thanos

You shew do wondew awot.

I think you just won the thread.

439 reine.de.tout  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:25:33pm

re: #385 SanFranciscoZionist

I doubt dogs react to race as much as they react to the signals their people give off about others. Left to their own devices, why would a dog care about slight variations in the single breed that is people?

Your right. My dog very clearly reacts to my reaction about people.

If it's someone I know - everything's OK.
If it's someone I don't know -he senses it somehow - and is very wary.

440 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 12, 2010 7:39:01pm

re: #417 Shiplord Kirel

You sure do talk pretty.

And I agree absolutely. Dirty Jobs has matured nicely.

441 BartB  Sun, Mar 14, 2010 2:59:55pm

#423, 428, 425, 431, 434
contributed nothing worth keeping or discussing. They are uninformative, vulgar, and disruptive. If these people think they are making some sort of point, I don't think they would want to show them to their parents, or any other responsible adult.
#436 raised a few points before getting snotty. Have a Kleenex.
Only one poster, #424 presented any useful discussion and information.
Thanks.
I don't see any point in my making any further posts.


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