What Right Wing Racism?

Politics • Views: 12,176

White nationalist Richard Spencer has launched a new site to promote his “academic” brand of racism: Alternative Right - An Online Magazine of Radical Traditionalism.

We’re not talking Stormfront here, with neo-Nazi troglodytes tossing around the ‘N’ word with abandon. Spencer and his cohorts are slicker than that. Their twisted breed of white supremacism masquerades as intellectualism. These “racialists” (as they sometimes call themselves) use the scientific-sounding phrase “human biological diversity” to make their argument: that whites (and Asians) are inherently, genetically superior to other races.

It’s the same age-old racism with a pseudo-scientific rationale.

Also participating in this shiny happy-faced hate site: the National Review’s John Derbyshire and Steve Sailer of vdare.com (a site that has also featured Michelle Malkin for years). And they don’t appear to lack funding — the site is very professionally designed, and obviously not done on the cheap.

Erik Kain has a piece at True/Slant about “Alternative Right,” and he links to this article at Frum Forum by Alex Knepper, describing an encounter between Knepper and Richard Spencer at last year’s CPAC circus:

“Show me one black nation that’s ever been run competently,” he [Richard Spencer] challenged me.

“That’s a ridiculous methodology. I’ll accept that claim for argument’s sake and still say that it’s bogus: African nations have not failed because the skin color of the people is black. The skin color is just a coincidence. It’s the culture that’s the problem.”

“Not true,” he said. “You look at Liberia, where ex-slaves went back to Africa, tried to bring American ideals to the country, and failed, because the blacks wouldn’t accept them.”

“This is not Western,” I said. “How can you possibly claim to stand for Western civilization? What’s brilliant about our values is that they stand for the individual, not the supremacy of the group. You come to America, you’re judged by your merits — not by what you look like.”

After a few more back-and-forths, we arrived at our destination, and as our car-mates went ahead, he told me to stay with him for a minute so he could talk to me. As the others faded into the background, he moved just inches away from my face, gave me a menacing look and yelled: “You little child. How dare you talk to me — me! — about the West! You don’t know the first thing about the West! You’re a little twelve-year-old who thinks he knows shit. Don’t you ever talk to me like that again or I will beat your face into the fucking ground!”

As with my infamous argument with gay-basher Ryan Sorba, my confrontations with collectivists always tend to end up degenerating into threats of physical force. Richard Spencer is a fairly tough guy, and I’m, well, kind of scrawny. So I kept my mouth shut. But I was frightened.

I let him walk ahead of me, and it ended there. But that is the real Richard Spencer: a white nationalist, a bully, and an intellectual coward.

These “racialists” know how to clean up when the cameras are on them, but when it’s one-on-one it doesn’t take much to make the mask drop.

But perhaps even more disturbing are the comments posted at Frum Forum underneath Knepper’s article — because it’s quite clear that even at FF, a site that’s trying to define a moderate style of conservatism, there’s quite a bit of support for the ugly racism of people like Spencer.

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737 comments
1 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:13:40pm

Charles thank you so much! Lol, this is perfectly timed with the last thread comments!

2 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:17:44pm

This could be called the "Taki" approach to right-wing ethno-nationalism.

Dress it up in multi-syllabic words and somehow it tastes better. A little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down.


Brimelow is already complaining about the "hegemonists" trying to do in AltRight.

3 Obdicut  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:19:20pm

There is absolutely no secret that Ron Paul is both himself racist (or willing to race-bait). Ron Paul's start is rising in today's GOP-- even with the contents of his newsletter well-known.

Limbaugh is defended no matter how clearly he race-baits.

Birtherism is incredibly prominent in the modern GOP.

4 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:21:52pm

so quiet. no one wants their crow.

5 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:22:29pm

re: #4 zora

so quiet. no one wants their crow.

Nah, they're downstairs making incoherent posts raving about having been downdinged.

6 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:22:40pm

Someone needs to run tape on Richard Spencer when he throws one of his little bitchy tantrums. It'd be a youtube senation!

7 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:23:48pm

Yeesh!

8 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:24:49pm

re: #5 iceweasel

Nah, they're downstairs making incoherent posts raving about having been downdinged.

I'm here... what do you want me to say?

9 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:25:32pm

Notice that Alex Knepper met Richard Spencer because they were both at an event promoting far right Dutch populist Geert Wilders, the guy who wants to make Islam illegal.

When people like Richard Spencer are on the same side with you, some people might take that as a wake-up call.

10 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:25:36pm

re: #8 Walter L. Newton

I'm here... what do you want me to say?

Since when have you ever been incoherent? :)

11 Irenicum  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:26:07pm

That account by Erik Kain is amazing. Spencer is a douchebag to the highest degree.

12 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:28:23pm

re: #3 Obdicut

There is absolutely no secret that Ron Paul is both himself racist (or willing to race-bait). Ron Paul's start is rising in today's GOP-- even with the contents of his newsletter well-known.

Limbaugh is defended no matter how clearly he race-baits.

Birtherism is incredibly prominent in the modern GOP.

The Ron Paul/Glenn Beck/Birch society racism is a tricky critter to grasp. They hate Lincoln for the Civil War and think the Civil Rights movement and "social justice" churches are a communist plot. Obama's deep seated hatred of "white culture". Rush has his own problems but seems eager to adopt the Birch Society version of racism because it's really hard for most "normal" people to get a grip on.

13 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:29:53pm

re: #5 iceweasel

Nah, they're downstairs making incoherent posts raving about having been downdinged.

Not another dingquisition, surely. Jeez...

14 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:30:38pm

Evening Lizards. Hope everyone is keeping well.

15 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:31:13pm

evening, jadespring

16 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:31:37pm

re: #14 Jadespring

Evening Lizards. Hope everyone is keeping well.

Not everyone, but that's nothing new..

17 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:31:38pm

it remains to be seen how institutionalized racism in the GOP will become...it is certainly overt in the media, but I have my doubts that it is top to bottom dogma for the entire party...and if you vote for a racist, then are you one yourself?, party wise?, philosophically?....the entire right, the GOP and conservatives have some choices to make, above and beyond the media and net blather...should be interesting

18 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:31:49pm

re: #4 zora

so quiet. no one wants their crow.

eh?
Most of the conservatives still here condemn the racism and insanity of the current crop of conservative "leaders".

So . . . what are you saying - you want us to eat crow for having a conservative viewpoint?

19 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:32:15pm

re: #10 iceweasel

Since when have you ever been incoherent? :)

Ok... the racist element on the right has been much more vocal and public of late. And they seem to feel that they have a place at the table, a public place, a place that in the past, was relegated to back rooms, geographic pockets and the pulpit of certain religious organizations.

It's a problem, always been a problem, will continue to be a problem. I don't consider it as completely institutionalized quite yet, but, I am curious to see how much longer it continues and how much more public it becomes before some of the more influential members of the GOP finally put their foot down.

Just a reminder, I am not a Republican.

20 SteveC  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:33:03pm
After a few more back-and-forths, we arrived at our destination, and as our car-mates went ahead, he told me to stay with him for a minute so he could talk to me. As the others faded into the background, he moved just inches away from my face, gave me a menacing look and yelled: “You little child. How dare you talk to me — me! — about the West! You don’t know the first thing about the West! You’re a little twelve-year-old who thinks he knows shit. Don’t you ever talk to me like that again or I will beat your face into the fucking ground!”

Academic Racism at its finest! Reminds me of Bill Murray:

"Back off man, I'm a scientist."

21 sandbox  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:33:17pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

I guess we're watching different shows. I've seen Glen Beck, I find him a kind of odd right wing entertainer. But I haven't detected racism in Glen Beck. Enlighten me.

22 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:33:19pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Well, a more obvious variant of that ilk can be found on subject of this thread. One of their writers, Richard Hoste, wrote an article on the Texas SBOE mess titled "The Culture War Lives".

He ends that piece with this:

A day earlier, longtime board member Mary Helen Berlanga accused her colleagues of "whitewashing" the standards and walked out of the panel's meeting in frustration. Berlanga voted against the standards on Friday.

Berlanga also bristled when the board approved an amendment that deletes a requirement that sociology students "explain how institutional racism is evident in American society."

Funny that she would appose “whitewashing” school standards as it appears that Ms. Berlanga has been whitewashing her appearance.

The link in the quoted section is Hoste's.

I have no idea what he is trying to say with it, other than it smells a whole lot like racism.

23 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:34:26pm
It’s the same age-old racism with a pseudo-scientific rationale.

Actually the old racism had a pseudo-scientific rationale, too. Indeed, for some decades in the 19th century, it constituted the scientific orthodoxy.

24 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:34:34pm

re: #18 reine.de.tout

eh?
Most of the conservatives still here condemn the racism and insanity of the current crop of conservative "leaders".

So . . . what are you saying - you want us to eat crow for having a conservative viewpoint?

it's not good enough...the pressure is on, the GOP is generally where the conservatives vote and for that reason we will be condemned....conservatism is dead...killed by both the left and the right

25 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:34:58pm

From the comment thread at 'The Occidental Quarterly online' article on Richard Spencer launching AltRight, "AmusedEuro" weighs in with this nugget:

The Jewish media spent three generations telling white people that being pro-white meant being “Nazi Jew hater” – and continue to do so.


Well imagine that. How did they get such an idea?

26 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:35:09pm

then i'm not talking to those people. i'm talking to the ones who were deflecting from the issue of racism by feigning ignorance and bringing up democratic corruption. i realize that the general consensus here is racism=bad.

27 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:35:14pm

re: #17 albusteve

it remains to be seen how institutionalized racism in the GOP will become...it is certainly overt in the media, but I have my doubts that it is top to bottom dogma for the entire party...

Of course it isn't, and neither are they all YEC or anti science or Glenn Becks, but they don't have the balls to be critical of any of those.

28 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:35:25pm

re: #18 reine.de.tout

eh?
Most of the conservatives still here condemn the racism and insanity of the current crop of conservative "leaders".

So . . . what are you saying - you want us to eat crow for having a conservative viewpoint?

I think she may have been referring to the argument downstairs where some were asking for examples or proof.

29 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:35:29pm

By the way, just so no one misunderstands -- I've been out riding my bike and didn't see any of the discussion in the previous thread before posting this. Erik Kain emailed about his post at True/Slant, and that was what prompted me to write it. It's not a finger pointing at you (although I do get weary of the reflexive excuse-making sometimes).

30 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:37:03pm

re: #21 sandbox

I guess we're watching different shows. I've seen Glen Beck, I find him a kind of odd right wing entertainer. But I haven't detected racism in Glen Beck. Enlighten me.

I think the reference, like mine, was more in the line of fruitcake.

31 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:37:13pm

re: #22 freetoken


I have no idea what he is trying to say with it, other than it smells a whole lot like racism.

You're right, that does not pass the smell test.

32 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:37:31pm

One bright day in the middle of the night
Two dead boys got up to fight
Back to back they faced each other
Drew their swords and shot each other
A deaf policeman heard the noise
He came and killed those two dead boys
One bright day in the middle of the night

As I was walkin' up the stair
I saw a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
Oh how I wish he'd go away

Jaybird sittin' on a hickory limb
He winked at me and I winked at him
His eyes were red and his teeth were green
Sat there pickin' on a tambourine

A monkey and a flea and three blind mice
Sat on a curbstone shootin' dice
The monkey did a flip and fell on the flea
The flea said, "Whoops, there's a monkey on me"

A Twinkie and a Tastycake knockin' at the door
They'd just come from the Mini-Mart store
Granny went upstairs to get her gun
Shoulda seen the Twinkie and the Tastycake run

As I was walkin' down the street
Who do ya think I chanced to meet?
It was Godzilla and old King Kong
Stompin' on buildings and singin' a song

Red and blue and delicate green
The King can't catch it 'n' neither can the Queen
Bring it in the house through the 'lectric socket
Catch a rainbow and put it in your pocket

If you don't believe these lies are true
Ask the blind man, he saw it too.

33 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:37:49pm

re: #25 jaunte

From the comment thread at 'The Occidental Quarterly online' article on Richard Spencer launching AltRight, "AmusedEuro" weighs in with this nugget:

Well imagine that. How did they get such an idea?

"Occidental Quarterly"?

I can't wait to pwn Google searches.

34 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:38:09pm

re: #21 sandbox

I guess we're watching different shows. I've seen Glen Beck, I find him a kind of odd right wing entertainer. But I haven't detected racism in Glen Beck. Enlighten me.

Glenn Beck is racist to his core.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

35 butterick  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:38:14pm

I'm assuming the tree in the background of the page is Yggdrasil - the tree from Norse myth that represents, in racist circles, the white / European family tree. Dog whistle web design at its finest.

36 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:38:39pm

re: #31 The Sanity Inspector

Well, I looked at the photo, and I just don't get it.

Is he trying to imply that she is trying to make her face more white, sort of like Michael Jackson?

37 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:39:15pm

re: #27 Naso Tang

Of course it isn't, and neither are they all YEC or anti science or Glenn Becks, but they don't have the balls to be critical of any of those.

on the last thread the GOP was condemned as racist from top to bottom...the fact that Romney or Steele or whoever does not condemn this stuff is a separate argument

38 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:39:15pm

re: #33 Alouette

It popped up in a Google image search. I wanted to see how tough Richard Spencer looked.

39 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:39:17pm

re: #36 freetoken

Well, I looked at the photo, and I just don't get it.

Is he trying to imply that she is trying to make her face more white, sort of like Michael Jackson?

Is she hispanic?

40 sandbox  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:39:32pm

re: #30 Naso Tang

The charge of racism is a show stopper. How is Glenn Beck a racist? I'm willing to listen.

41 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:39:55pm

re: #29 Charles

By the way, just so no one misunderstands -- I've been out riding my bike and didn't see any of the discussion in the previous thread before posting this. Erik Kain emailed about his post at True/Slant, and that was what prompted me to write it. It's not a finger pointing at you (although I do get weary of the reflexive excuse-making sometimes).

Finally it is turning to springtime here Charles..Long Winter...So I'm going to ride my new 21 speed Fuji soon..
I know you love bikes..What do you ride if I may ask?

42 Obdicut  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:40:22pm

re: #36 freetoken

It's probably the dyed blonde hair.

Such a shallow, obviously racist attack on her. Dying your hair blonde doesn't mean you're trying to look white. Jesus, what a moron.

43 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:41:35pm

re: #32 negativ

One bright day in the middle of the night
Two dead boys got up to fight
Back to back they faced each other
Drew their swords and shot each other
A deaf policeman heard the noise
He came and killed those two dead boys
One bright day in the middle of the night

As I was walkin' up the stair
I saw a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
Oh how I wish he'd go away

Jaybird sittin' on a hickory limb
He winked at me and I winked at him
His eyes were red and his teeth were green
Sat there pickin' on a tambourine

A monkey and a flea and three blind mice
Sat on a curbstone shootin' dice
The monkey did a flip and fell on the flea
The flea said, "Whoops, there's a monkey on me"

A Twinkie and a Tastycake knockin' at the door
They'd just come from the Mini-Mart store
Granny went upstairs to get her gun
Shoulda seen the Twinkie and the Tastycake run

As I was walkin' down the street
Who do ya think I chanced to meet?
It was Godzilla and old King Kong
Stompin' on buildings and singin' a song

Red and blue and delicate green
The King can't catch it 'n' neither can the Queen
Bring it in the house through the 'lectric socket
Catch a rainbow and put it in your pocket

If you don't believe these lies are true
Ask the blind man, he saw it too.

I like it! Where's it from?

44 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:42:20pm

re: #41 HoosierHoops

Finally it is turning to springtime here Charles..Long Winter...So I'm going to ride my new 21 speed Fuji soon..
I know you love bikes..What do you ride if I may ask?

a fat tire Murry with a handy sixer in the basket and ball cards clipped on the spokes?....maybe not

45 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:42:22pm

re: #35 butterick

I'm assuming the tree in the background of the page is Yggdrasil - the tree from Norse myth that represents, in racist circles, the white / European family tree. Dog whistle web design at its finest.

Good catch.

46 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:42:47pm

re: #35 butterick

I'm assuming the tree in the background of the page is Yggdrasil - the tree from Norse myth that represents, in racist circles, the white / European family tree. Dog whistle web design at its finest.

Good catch. That's exactly what it is.

The "racialists" think it's clever to insert these little racist shout-outs, knowing that most people won't get it.

47 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:43:09pm

re: #43 Stanley Sea

I like it! Where's it from?

It's a collection of schoolyard rhymes.

48 Obdicut  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:43:44pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

I love Norse legend. I fucking hate it that white supremacists have coopted it.

Odin, the one-eyed god, would walk the earth testing the hospitality of man, punishing those who failed to be gracious to guests.

All these Pagan-Nordic white supremacists who want to kick out immigrants would fail the test of the god they claim to admire.

49 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:43:50pm

re: #36 freetoken

Well, I looked at the photo, and I just don't get it.

Is he trying to imply that she is trying to make her face more white, sort of like Michael Jackson?

He's taking a jab at her ethnicity, apparently not realizing that you don't have to be brown to be hispanic. Someone should show him a map of Europe, particularly a region we know as "Iberia"...

50 SteveC  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:44:54pm
A Twinkie and a Tastycake knockin' at the door
They'd just come from the Mini-Mart store
Granny went upstairs to get her gun
Shoulda seen the Twinkie and the Tastycake run

Anyone who'd chase off a Tastycake is nuckin' futs. Might be time to find Granny an assisted living facility.

51 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:46:44pm

re: #48 Obdicut

I love Norse legend. I fucking hate it that white supremacists have coopted it.

Odin, the one-eyed god, would walk the earth testing the hospitality of man, punishing those who failed to be gracious to guests.

All these Pagan-Nordic white supremacists who want to kick out immigrants would fail the test of the god they claim to admire.

Odin was one-eyed because he plucked out the other one with is own hand in exchange for wisdom.

These new racialists wouldn't buy a clue for a plugged nickel.

52 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:47:11pm

re: #49 The Sanity Inspector

He's taking a jab at her ethnicity, apparently not realizing that you don't have to be brown to be hispanic. Someone should show him a map of Europe, particularly a region we know as "Iberia"...

Yep I just looked up her background. He's jabbing at the color of her hair because it's 'blondish' therefore she's trying to be 'white'.

53 Racer X  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:47:27pm

"Radical Traditionalism"

?

54 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:48:04pm

Everyone go downthread and read my awesome limerick :D

55 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:48:11pm

re: #48 Obdicut

I agree. Not the worst thing they do, but very annoying to some of us who want to study that history without being considered white supremacists.

56 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:48:29pm

ΠΙΜΦ: "...his own hand..."

or 'is

57 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:48:35pm

re: #40 sandbox

why do you think he has lost most of his sponsors?

58 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:48:37pm

re: #49 The Sanity Inspector

I wonder if anyone will ever call him on it?

Onto the next writer... Derbyshire. His association with this site/group ought to cause problems with the NR.

If the NR doesn't dump him, publicly, then this will eventually come back to bite them. They've already embraced teh stupid with blogs like "Planet Gore". However, by allowing Derbyshire to openly present himself as representing the NR on the AltRight website now there will be no room for the management of the NR to maneuver.

59 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:49:42pm

re: #13 Jimmah

Not another dingquisition, surely. Jeez...

Give me all of your dings!
LOL!
*waves*

60 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:49:49pm

re: #34 Charles

Glenn Beck is racist to his core.

As much as I hate to be caught defending him, that quote in itself strikes me as no more than a knee jerk wish for the supposedly good old days of white anglo saxon christian dominance in politics. It can be a cultural bias as much as a racist one, and I think we are all prone to the former.

On the other hand, I often wonder how Mormons reconcile their obviously racist theology, tempered only because they had to do so, not because the golden plates said so.

61 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:50:00pm

I wonder if Richard Spencer is in touch with Robert.

62 SteveC  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:50:09pm

re: #57 zora

why do you think he has lost most of his sponsors?

The gold peddlers are still there - hanging in 'till the bitter end!

63 Racer X  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:50:31pm
64 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:50:39pm

re: #58 freetoken

I wonder if anyone will ever call him on it?

Onto the next writer... Derbyshire. His association with this site/group ought to cause problems with the NR.

If the NR doesn't dump him, publicly, then this will eventually come back to bite them. They've already embraced teh stupid with blogs like "Planet Gore". However, by allowing Derbyshire to openly present himself as representing the NR on the AltRight website now there will be no room for the management of the NR to maneuver.

Have to say I'm pretty damn shocked by that. Not that the derb wasn't always a douche, but this is something else again. And I loathe NRO anyway, mainly because of Jonah Goldberg-- but this? Wow.

65 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:50:49pm

re: #55 jaunte

I agree. Not the worst thing they do, but very annoying to some of us who want to study that history without being considered white supremacists.

Yes I'm have an interest Celtic history and studies. It really stinks as I've noticed over the past couple of years a co-option of this area into white nationalist ville. It's gotten to the point where you have to be careful of sites that come up when looking for information on something.

66 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:50:53pm

re: #43 Stanley Sea

I like it! Where's it from?

Don't know, but I remember it from childhood.

67 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:51:05pm

re: #59 Floral Giraffe

Give me all of your dings!
LOL!
*waves*

Hi you!
*waves*

68 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:51:21pm

re: #60 Naso Tang

As much as I hate to be caught defending him, that quote in itself strikes me as no more than a knee jerk wish for the supposedly good old days of white anglo saxon christian dominance in politics. It can be a cultural bias as much as a racist one, and I think we are all prone to the former.

On the other hand, I often wonder how Mormons reconcile their obviously racist theology, tempered only because they had to do so, not because the golden plates said so.

What about his famous line about Obama having a "deep-seated hatred for white people and

white culture"

? Was that race-baiting or just projection?

69 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:51:33pm

re: #57 zora

why do you think he has lost most of his sponsors?

Funny you mention this, I have been writing emails to the few that remain all day. :D

70 SteveC  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:52:08pm

re: #59 Floral Giraffe

Give me all of your dings!

Gimmie all your lovin'
All your hugs and kisses too....

71 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:52:11pm

re: #40 sandbox

The charge of racism is a show stopper. How is Glenn Beck a racist? I'm willing to listen.

Read this site much?
You can do a search, in the top right box for "Glen Beck racist".

72 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:53:23pm

re: #59 Floral Giraffe

Give me all of your dings!
LOL!
*waves*

Hey hon, glad you are here.

I do tilt at windmills...

When you meet someone who insists that an orange is an elephant, they are crazy.. it is madness to attempt convince them otherwise.

73 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:53:34pm
because it’s quite clear that even at FF, a site that’s trying to define a moderate style of conservatism, there’s quite a bit of support for the ugly racism of people like Spencer.

How can conservatives not be racist?

74 sandbox  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:53:43pm

re: #57 zora

I don't know. I assume because he is right wing, gets into conspiracies theories over much.

75 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:53:47pm

re: #29 Charles

By the way, just so no one misunderstands -- I've been out riding my bike and didn't see any of the discussion in the previous thread before posting this. Erik Kain emailed about his post at True/Slant, and that was what prompted me to write it. It's not a finger pointing at you (although I do get weary of the reflexive excuse-making sometimes).

Beautiful day for a bike ride!

76 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:53:54pm

re: #64 iceweasel

It will be interesting to watch if/when Malkin/HotAir/Townhall start to link to articles and writers on the AltRight website.

77 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:53:56pm

Forty-six years have I been an active and self-declared conservative, ever since I worked for the Goldwater campaign as a teenager in 1964. That is longer than most of you have been alive. Now the conservative movement has come to this, a mob of crypto-nazis and superstitious knuckle-draggers.

We are well and truly screwed.

78 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:54:16pm

re: #73 laZardo

How can conservatives not be racist?

I'm a conservative and I'm not racist.

79 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:54:32pm

re: #65 Jadespring

I've been surprised by that co-opting as well.

80 sngnsgt  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:54:53pm

re: #78 NJDhockeyfan

I'm a conservative and I'm not racist.

Ditto.

81 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:55:01pm

re: #67 HoosierHoops

Magnificent here in Santa Barbara!
70's and breezy, down to the high 40's tonight.
Hope your Spring is truly taking hold!
{{HH}}

82 Racer X  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:55:42pm
83 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:55:46pm

re: #72 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey hon, glad you are here.

I do tilt at windmills...

When you meet someone who insists that an orange is an elephant, they are crazy.. it is madness to attempt convince them otherwise.

It's not an Orange, it's a Tangerine, silly!
{{LVQ}}

84 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:55:48pm

re: #76 freetoken

It will be interesting to watch if/when Malkin/HotAir/Townhall start to link to articles and writers on the AltRight website.

I'm pretty certain we can count on that happening almost immediately. Certainly in Malkin/Hot Air's case.

How long til Powerline and Instahack do it?

If NR doesn't give Derbyshire the boot over this, I say it's going to be linked everywhere. Hope I'm wrong.

85 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:56:16pm

re: #74 sandbox

I don't know. I assume because he is right wing, gets into conspiracies theories over much.

READ. That's all we can say, please read up on these issues.

86 Racer X  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:56:58pm

re: #73 laZardo

How can conservatives not be racist?

So, all conservatives are racist?

87 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:57:14pm

re: #60 Naso Tang

As much as I hate to be caught defending him, that quote in itself strikes me as no more than a knee jerk wish for the supposedly good old days of white anglo saxon christian dominance in politics. It can be a cultural bias as much as a racist one, and I think we are all prone to the former.

On the other hand, I often wonder how Mormons reconcile their obviously racist theology, tempered only because they had to do so, not because the golden plates said so.

I wonder how Mormonism reconcile the fact that they based a lot of their early "theology" on the concepts of Anglo-Israelism period.

88 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:57:34pm

And BTW, the entire phrase "white culture" is about as stupid and ignorant as it gets.

It is also inherrently racist on two counts.

First, there is no such thing as "white culture." There are many different cultures of different people who are white - just like it is with Asians. For example, the Japanese have a distinct culture from teh Chinese or the Koreans, Just as the French are distinct culturally from the Greeks or the Irish or the Russians or Jews.

So why make up the silly lie - it is obviously trying to lump all whites together and in context it was a statement that a black man hates "white culture."

In other words, white folks, all of you white folks, put aside your differences because them uppity darkies is a commin!

OF COURSE THAT IS RACIST.

The second from that it is ignorant and racist to mention white culture is because it cheapens all the diverse cultures or different white peoples and replaces them with a mushy lump.

89 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:58:07pm

re: #83 Floral Giraffe

It's not an Orange, it's a Tangerine, silly!
{{LVQ}}

Loves ya back!

90 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:58:13pm

re: #69 bratwurst

1800 Pet Meds already wrote back and told me a lie that they couldn't control where their ads turn up during an 8 hour block...nevermind the 100+ Fox News advertisers who have already done just that.

91 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:58:56pm

Ok, Lizards. Have fun.
Back to the vacation for me!
Returning to my regularly scheduled Lizard time, come Monday!

Be well. Get out & enjoy your Springtime.
Don't forget the TIME CHANGE tonight!

92 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:58:57pm

re: #90 bratwurst

1800 Pet Meds already wrote back and told me a lie that they couldn't control where their ads turn up during an 8 hour block...nevermind the 100+ Fox News advertisers who have already done just that.

Intuit just bailed.

93 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:59:01pm

Conservatism does not equal racism. OK? We know that.

But the racists are coming back, big time, and there don't seem to be any conservatives like William F. Buckley around to call them out.

Unless the conservative movement starts cleaning these freaks out, there's going to be a day when conservatism DOES equal racism.

94 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:59:23pm

Gilbert Keith Chesterton on conservatism:

All conservatism is based upon the idea that if you leave things alone you leave them as they are. But you do not. If you leave a thing alone you leave it to a torrent of change.

Which is to say, in a world where "conservatism" regularly votes against "conservation", conservatism itself must change or die.

95 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:59:46pm

re: #93 Charles

Conservatism does not equal racism. OK? We know that.

But the racists are coming back, big time, and there don't seem to be any conservatives like William F. Buckley around to call them out.

Unless the conservative movement starts cleaning these freaks out, there's going to be a day when conservatism DOES equal racism.

You're calling them out, quite nicley, I think!

96 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 6:59:59pm

re: #81 Floral Giraffe

Magnificent here in Santa Barbara!
70's and breezy, down to the high 40's tonight.
Hope your Spring is truly taking hold!
{{HH}}

My lawd...I have an Uncle in Santa Barbara.. Lives on the Coast..Works for Hallmark and is richer than hell...

97 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:00:03pm

re: #86 Racer X

As seen with the articles here, well, I'm finding less reason to disagree.

Of course, there is a difference between conservatives and (sane) libertarians, the latter of which those of you that haven't flounced are.

98 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:00:30pm

re: #79 prairiefire

I've been surprised by that co-opting as well.

Yeah some of it is pretty sickening. There's absolutely nothing wrong with looking into ones ancestral heritage and being proud of it. The problem is when it's taken and used as part of the whole proving we're superior.
The worst thing I've come across is the use of symbols, like versions of the celtic cross which does appear to be increasing in some white nationalist circles. Makes me ill when I think of some of the jewelry I have sitting on my night table. I would hate for that symbol to get to a point where wearing those pieces would peg me as something that I am not.

99 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:00:32pm

re: #73 laZardo

How can conservatives not be racist?

So few men are really worth knowing, that it seems a shameful waste to let an anthropoid prejudice stand in the way of free association with one who is.
-- H. L. Mencken

100 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:00:38pm

re: #74 sandbox

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: www.theroot.com...]

[Link: newsone.com...]

if you really want to know. these are good places to start.

101 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:00:41pm

re: #96 HoosierHoops

He would like a visit from you, I bet!

102 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:00:48pm

re: #93 Charles

Unless the conservative movement starts cleaning these freaks out, there's going to be a day when conservatism DOES equal racism.

Exactly. Seems that day's gonna be very soon, too.

103 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:00:51pm

re: #93 Charles

Conservatism does not equal racism. OK? We know that.

But the racists are coming back, big time, and there don't seem to be any conservatives like William F. Buckley around to call them out.

Unless the conservative movement starts cleaning these freaks out, there's going to be a day when conservatism DOES equal racism.

Well, I think that day has arrived as far as the politics of this nation go. Buckly would be a RINO today and there is no point in denying that. All of those conservatives who are not racist and not in bed with the religious right agenda against gays and women and education are RINOs. So sayeth the Leaders of the GOP, so sayeth the flock.

104 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:01:15pm

re: #95 Floral Giraffe

You're calling them out, quite nicley, I think!

And look how the right wing is reacting to me.

105 Racer X  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:01:48pm

re: #97 laZardo

As seen with the articles here, well, I'm finding less reason to disagree.

Of course, there is a difference between conservatives and (sane) libertarians, the latter of which those of you that haven't flounced are.

Ahh. Thanks for clarifying who and what I am. I had not known.

106 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:01:51pm

re: #104 Charles

And look how the right wing is reacting to me.

Flack = over the target!

107 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:01:57pm

I'm a conservationist.

108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:02:14pm

re: #78 NJDhockeyfan

I'm a conservative and I'm not racist.

I'm a conservative and I'm not racist.

109 Racer X  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:03:46pm

re: #108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm a conservative and I'm not racist.

I'm a conservative and I'm not racist.

110 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:04:11pm

re: #73 laZardo

How can conservatives not be racist?

pretty easy...even you could figure it out

111 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:04:12pm

re: #104 Charles

And look how the right wing is reacting to me.

Meh. They're a lost cause. Just keep telling the truth. You are reaching a LOT of people, and opening many eyes. It's good work.
THANK YOU!

112 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:04:17pm

re: #88 LudwigVanQuixote

And BTW, the entire phrase "white culture" is about as stupid and ignorant as it gets.

It is also inherrently racist on two counts.

First, there is no such thing as "white culture."

Excellent post. Abbreviated only for emphasis. I would add, to tie it into the earlier points in re: norse mythology and celtic stuff, that there is also a certain element among white supremacists that fantasises about some 'pure' white culture. That's why they seek to co-opt those particular references and cultures. It has some parallels with the various fascist and racist nationalistic movements in the UK-- there it's a fantasy about some "british culture" or "english cultural tradition" which in fact never existed at all, not in the way they mean it.

The whole strategy isn't very different from the Nazis' various fantasies about Aryans and a master race and their similar efforts to distort and appropriate history to that effect.

113 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:04:56pm

re: #98 Jadespring

I think it is still under the radar for the general public. But the Celtic Cross, or a version of it, is showing up in a lot of tattoos on white nationalist thugs.[Link: www.thecelticplace.net...]

114 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:05:20pm

re: #104 Charles

Well, look on the bright side: You can only be crucified once.

115 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:05:41pm

To all of you good conservatives who are not racist, homophobic, bigoted or otherwise ignorant cretins, can we agree that Limbaugh, Beck, Malkin, Coulter, Pat Robertson, RSM, RP, The Birchers, The Ronulans, Buchanan etc.. are?

And can we agree that these are not small voices in the GOP?

Can we agree that the GOP would not make this play so loudly for so long if it did not resonate with a majority of their constituents?

116 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:05:46pm

F**k, I know I used to identify myself as a conservative and I don't know what I'd be considered now, but I'm not racist.

/Is there anyone, anyone at all, who's sane, not racist, and can stand up to the right-wing krayzees?

117 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:05:48pm

Unless you turn out to be a zombie, of course.

118 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:06:07pm

re: #68 Cato the Elder

? Was that race-baiting or just projection?

Yes, it can be taken as racist, literally; but on the other hand I see Glenn Beck as too smart to say that if he thought about it beforehand, and too stupid to think before he speaks.

I hear comments from the right about the glorious past too often to see this one any differently. The common thread is a cultural issue, even though the past culture was certainly racist; but my point is that if we want to we can reduce many things to racism just because that is the simplest label to use.

As an example, someone in the school system here made a reference to a problem school (largely black) and the small number of "hoodlum" students who were causing problems. Incredibly the local NAACP spokesman and a black racist group called Uhuru called for that person (white) to resign or be fired.

Surprise! Some black people think they own the English word Hoodlum because it includes the letters h-o-o-d. Beats me how that becomes racist, but if you had heard the words I said when when I first read about it you would have called me a racist. I am not; but I have no false respect for certain cultural memes.

119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:06:32pm

re: #93 Charles

I'm right there with ya.

Related (somewhat)... was at a customer's house today who ranted and railed against "what is happening to our country!". "Bailouts and the like are bankrupting America!".

Then proceeded to ask me if my windows (I sell replacement windows, in addition to kitchen remodels and stuff) qualified for the Federal Tax Credit.

They were ready to get them some of that.

The hypocrites suck too.

120 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:06:34pm

re: #73 laZardo

i really thought you were joking. but i see that's your story and you're sticking to it. good luck with that.

121 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:06:39pm

re: #116 talon_262

F**k, I know I used to identify myself as a conservative and I don't know what I'd be considered now, but I'm not racist.

/Is there anyone, anyone at all, who's sane, not racist, and can stand up to the right-wing krayzees?

You can start with yourself.

122 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:07:16pm

re: #59 Floral Giraffe

Give me all of your dings!
LOL!
*waves*

Hi there! :)

123 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:07:25pm

re: #112 iceweasel

Excellent post. Abbreviated only for emphasis. I would add, to tie it into the earlier points in re: norse mythology and celtic stuff, that there is also a certain element among white supremacists that fantasises about some 'pure' white culture. That's why they seek to co-opt those particular references and cultures. It has some parallels with the various fascist and racist nationalistic movements in the UK-- there it's a fantasy about some "british culture" or "english cultural tradition" which in fact never existed at all, not in the way they mean it.

The whole strategy isn't very different from the Nazis' various fantasies about Aryans and a master race and their similar efforts to distort and appropriate history to that effect.

My favorite version of it has always been that they are the actual Jews and that Jesus was a guy with blond hair and blue eyes.

I encountered one of those. His name was McKenzie. His ancestors came from the tribe of McKenzie in the province of Judea known as Glasgow.

124 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:08:03pm

re: #58 freetoken

I wonder if anyone will ever call him on it?

Onto the next writer... Derbyshire. His association with this site/group ought to cause problems with the NR.

If the NR doesn't dump him, publicly, then this will eventually come back to bite them. They've already embraced teh stupid with blogs like "Planet Gore". However, by allowing Derbyshire to openly present himself as representing the NR on the AltRight website now there will be no room for the management of the NR to maneuver.

A shame about Derbyshire; I have a fondness for sour old Tories. "The Supreme Court: the branch of government charged with making the laws that Congress has omitted to make."

At least there's precedent, if they do decide to get rid of him. Buckley and the editors disassociated themselves from Joseph Sobran when he started wading into the fever swamps. They did the same thing with Buchanan, until they let their frustation with George H. W. Bush goad them into endorsing him in the Republican primaries.

125 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:08:30pm

re: #112 iceweasel

Excellent post. Abbreviated only for emphasis. I would add, to tie it into the earlier points in re: norse mythology and celtic stuff, that there is also a certain element among white supremacists that fantasises about some 'pure' white culture. That's why they seek to co-opt those particular references and cultures. It has some parallels with the various fascist and racist nationalistic movements in the UK-- there it's a fantasy about some "british culture" or "english cultural tradition" which in fact never existed at all, not in the way they mean it.

The whole strategy isn't very different from the Nazis' various fantasies about Aryans and a master race and their similar efforts to distort and appropriate history to that effect.

British Israelism

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

126 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:08:44pm

re: #115 LudwigVanQuixote

Can we agree that the GOP would not make this play so loudly for so long if it did not resonate with a majority of their constituents.


I don't think it's a majority; I think it's a losing play for them, because they are trying for a coalition of voters susceptible to racist pitches and voters uneasy with their perception of free-spending Democrats in charge. The fis-cons are not going to be longtime allies of the racists.

127 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:08:44pm

re: #88 LudwigVanQuixote

And BTW, the entire phrase "white culture" is about as stupid and ignorant as it gets.

It is also inherrently racist on two counts.

First, there is no such thing as "white culture." There are many different cultures of different people who are white - just like it is with Asians. For example, the Japanese have a distinct culture from teh Chinese or the Koreans, Just as the French are distinct culturally from the Greeks or the Irish or the Russians or Jews.

So why make up the silly lie - it is obviously trying to lump all whites together and in context it was a statement that a black man hates "white culture."

In other words, white folks, all of you white folks, put aside your differences because them uppity darkies is a commin!

OF COURSE THAT IS RACIST.

The second from that it is ignorant and racist to mention white culture is because it cheapens all the diverse cultures or different white peoples and replaces them with a mushy lump.

thanks for that...I'm enlightened!...actually I live in one of the most diverse subcultures in the country and enjoy it immensely....maybe some one else will benefit tho

128 Racer X  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:08:45pm

re: #104 Charles

And look how the right wing is reacting to me.

Honestly Charles, I think there are many conservatives who read your blog and agree with you about the fungus that has taken over the right side of the political spectrum.

I cannot wait for a prominent politician to take a stand and denounce these so-called "conservatives" who embrace the radical right. That day will come.

129 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:08:47pm

I would like to know if any Jewish lizards consider the Roma the lost tribe of Israel?

130 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:09:04pm

I couldn't claim to be a conservative if I wanted to. In a world where "top conservatives" spend their time teaching dogs to howl at the name of the president, and where eliminationist thugs like the EDL bear the label along with people who fly planes into government buildings because they were not allowed to declare their house a church to avoid paying taxes, the word has lost all meaning.

131 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:09:09pm

re: #101 Floral Giraffe

He would like a visit from you, I bet!

Saw him a few years ago when Jordan got back from Iraq..We rented a beach house on Cleveland Street in Oceanside and did the whole home tour thing..Most of our family flew in from Napa to celebrate our son's return.. I have lots of pics..
My cube has all kinds of pictures of Jordan at his homecoming with his Brothers and Sisters and Mom and Dad...
I am very proud of him and the Marines

132 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:09:20pm

re: #73 laZardo

OK, that's being an ass. I'm not a racist, nor is Mandy, nor NJDHF, nor Thanos. There are a good number of conservatives still on this blog and none of them are racist.

133 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:09:35pm

re: #20 SteveC

Academic Racism at its finest! Reminds me of Bill Murray:

"Back off man, I'm a scientist."

THE CANDLES! ARE STILL! STANDING!

134 palomino  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:09:56pm

I almost feel sorry for Frum. He tries to stand up to the far right's excesses, and his reward is being called a RINO traitor by the Repubs who frequent his site.

135 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:10:04pm

re: #131 HoosierHoops

*smooch*
And, runs!
Bye, now, really!

136 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:10:08pm

re: #116 talon_262

F**k, I know I used to identify myself as a conservative and I don't know what I'd be considered now, but I'm not racist.

/Is there anyone, anyone at all, who's sane, not racist, and can stand up to the right-wing krayzees?

Not right now.
We can hope someone comes along.
But I don't see much of anything on the horizon right now that would suggest that's going to happen any time soon.

137 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:10:32pm

re: #129 prairiefire

I would like to know if any Jewish lizards consider the Roma the lost tribe of Israel?

No one has ever suggested that, not even the Rom themselves.

I have read some peculiar theories that the Native American tribes were the lost tribes of Israel, but I don't believe that either.

138 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:10:32pm

re: #118 Naso Tang

Yes, it can be taken as racist, literally; but on the other hand I see Glenn Beck as too smart to say that if he thought about it beforehand, and too stupid to think before he speaks.

I hear comments from the right about the glorious past too often to see this one any differently. The common thread is a cultural issue, even though the past culture was certainly racist; but my point is that if we want to we can reduce many things to racism just because that is the simplest label to use.

As an example, someone in the school system here made a reference to a problem school (largely black) and the small number of "hoodlum" students who were causing problems. Incredibly the local NAACP spokesman and a black racist group called Uhuru called for that person (white) to resign or be fired.

Surprise! Some black people think they own the English word Hoodlum because it includes the letters h-o-o-d. Beats me how that becomes racist, but if you had heard the words I said when when I first read about it you would have called me a racist. I am not; but I have no false respect for certain cultural memes.

At least you are not niggardly with your arguments.

139 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:10:46pm

re: #128 Racer X

Honestly Charles, I think there are many conservatives who read your blog and agree with you about the fungus that has taken over the right side of the political spectrum.

I cannot wait for a prominent politician to take a stand and denounce these so-called "conservatives" who embrace the radical right. That day will come.

There needs to be another Buckley! But that's been said a million times here.

140 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:10:50pm

re: #127 albusteve

thanks for that...I'm enlightened!...actually I live in one of the most diverse subcultures in the country and enjoy it immensely...maybe some one else will benefit tho

Oh steve you are so much smarter than me. Thank you for reminding me that my posts must meet with your approval! How dare I think that I might know something you do not already know?!? We know that is not possible...

////

141 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:11:09pm

Charles, you have a direct link to the racist webpage, rather than a google cache. They are getting traffic from lgf.

142 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:11:15pm

What I'd like to know is: where's the money coming from?

"Alternative Right" took some fairly serious money to set up. That's not a cheapo site. Somebody got paid a lot of dough for it.

143 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:11:26pm

re: #125 Walter L. Newton

British Israelism

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

from the wiki page:
...The central tenets of British Israelism contradict modern genetic, linguistic, and historical evidence, and have been accorded little scientific credibility.

they don't need no stinkin' facts

144 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:11:29pm

re: #136 reine.de.tout

Not right now.
We can hope someone comes along.
But I don't see much of anything on the horizon right now that would suggest that's going to happen any time soon.

To have faith means to dare, to think the unthinkable, yet to act within the limits of the realistically possible; is the paradoxical hope to expect the Messiah every day, yet not to lose heart when he has not come at the appointed hour.

145 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:11:30pm

re: #121 Walter L. Newton

You can start with yourself.

I do what I can, but I'm just one man, same as you. What frightens and infuriates me is that the bad craziness currently infecting the right wing is insidious and creeping; it's going to take more than just us at LGF to turn it around, unfortunately.

146 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:11:31pm

re: #126 jaunte

I don't think it's a majority; I think it's a losing play for them, because they are trying for a coalition of voters susceptible to racist pitches and voters uneasy with their perception of free-spending Democrats in charge. The fis-cons are not going to be longtime allies of the racists.

But they are now. They simply can not bring themselves to speak up enough to stop this madness.

147 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:11:41pm

re: #134 palomino

I almost feel sorry for Frum. He tries to stand up to the far right's excesses, and his reward is being called a RINO traitor by the Repubs who frequent his site.

Eh, it's actually sort of satisfying to be at odds with your peeps on your blog. I have a blog and I've taken some unpopular positions (like my position on smoking in bars) and oh man was I in the vast minority.

148 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:11:44pm

re: #115 LudwigVanQuixote

To all of you good conservatives who are not racist, homophobic, bigoted or otherwise ignorant cretins, can we agree that Limbaugh, Beck, Malkin, Coulter, Pat Robertson, RSM, RP, The Birchers, The Ronulans, Buchanan etc.. are?

And can we agree that these are not small voices in the GOP?

Can we agree that the GOP would not make this play so loudly for so long if it did not resonate with a majority of their constituents?

I'll agree with the following modification: Substitute "a majority" with the phrase "at least a substantial minority".

149 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:12:13pm

re: #134 palomino

Frum is pretty clearly a neo-conservative, and the paleocons and libertarian fundamentalists hate him for it, and have done so for quite a while.

150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:12:18pm

re: #115 LudwigVanQuixote

I prefer not to guess what is in people's hearts.

But I'm a judgmental mutherfracker when it comes to people's actions.

151 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:12:23pm

re: #129 prairiefire

I would like to know if any Jewish lizards consider the Roma the lost tribe of Israel?

For what it's worth... (no, I don't believe it)...

[Link: www.swaveda.com...]

152 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:12:28pm

re: #146 LudwigVanQuixote

I believe that the panderers have miscalculated by trying to enlist the fanatics, and will continue to lose.

153 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:08pm

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

What's that from? That's beautiful.

154 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:13pm

re: #115 LudwigVanQuixote

To all of you good conservatives who are not racist, homophobic, bigoted or otherwise ignorant cretins, can we agree that Limbaugh, Beck, Malkin, Coulter, Pat Robertson, RSM, RP, The Birchers, The Ronulans, Buchanan etc.. are?

And can we agree that these are not small voices in the GOP?

Can we agree that the GOP would not make this play so loudly for so long if it did not resonate with a majority of their constituents?

I don't identify with the GOP....those people are their problem, bunch of talking heads won't budge me from my principles...I don't get all swept away with them, in fact I care exactly as much for them as they do for me....the only generalization I ever make is that I hate the feds, all of them, always have

155 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:14pm

We have a Black president. This is how it started.

Now every racist and bigot in the country has a bandwagon to jump on. Is this where we want to go? Does it mean we'll never have another non-white male as President? A woman, an Asian, a Jew, an American Indian? They are trying to keep it from ever happening again. That's what this is all about.

156 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:16pm

re: #94 Cato the Elder

Gilbert Keith Chesterton on conservatism:

All conservatism is based upon the idea that if you leave things alone you leave them as they are. But you do not. If you leave a thing alone you leave it to a torrent of change.

Which is to say, in a world where "conservatism" regularly votes against "conservation", conservatism itself must change or die.

And, typically, he has a bookend for that quote:

The reformer is always right about what is wrong. He is generally wrong about what is right.

157 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:17pm

re: #142 Charles

What I'd like to know is: where's the money coming from?

"Alternative Right" took some fairly serious money to set up. That's not a cheapo site. Somebody got paid a lot of dough for it.

Maybe they used an offshore web design company, in Eastern Europe? Russians and Poles are cheap, and they have skills.

158 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:17pm

re: #137 Alouette

Thanks, Alouette. Is the mall open? I think you mentioned the mud based items for excema.

159 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:19pm

re: #130 Cato the Elder

I couldn't claim to be a conservative if I wanted to. In a world where "top conservatives" spend their time teaching dogs to howl at the name of the president, and where eliminationist thugs like the EDL bear the label along with people who fly planes into government buildings because they were not allowed to declare their house a church to avoid paying taxes, the word has lost all meaning.

No it just means ignorant racist homophobic anti-woman, anti-science anti-constitutional liberties.

It just means religious right and white.

160 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:43pm

re: #146 LudwigVanQuixote

But they are now. They simply can not bring themselves to speak up enough to stop this madness.

This stuff moves in ebbs and tides, the exorcism of these guys from the GOp might take a decade. They might win some elections because they're thinking short term, but the credibility is shot as long as the activist core is around-the-bend nuts.


Now imagine in 2016 if Obama wins in 2012, and then Michelle runs. If Obama ends on a high note, it may happen. And then the meltdowns will increase logrithmically!

161 palomino  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:44pm

re: #128 Racer X

Honestly Charles, I think there are many conservatives who read your blog and agree with you about the fungus that has taken over the right side of the political spectrum.

I cannot wait for a prominent politician to take a stand and denounce these so-called "conservatives" who embrace the radical right. That day will come.

I hope you're right about "that day", but I don't see any promising developments on this front or any prominent pols willing to go out on this limb. They'll get the same response that people like Frum and CJ get--being labeled RINOs or accused of betrayal.

162 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:53pm

re: #128 Racer X

Honestly Charles, I think there are many conservatives who read your blog and agree with you about the fungus that has taken over the right side of the political spectrum.

I cannot wait for a prominent politician to take a stand and denounce these so-called "conservatives" who embrace the radical right. That day will come.

And that Republican will win the race (whatever one he/she is in) I really believe that.

163 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:55pm

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

OK, that's being an ass. I'm not a racist, nor is Mandy, nor NJDHF, nor Thanos. There are a good number of conservatives still on this blog and none of them are racist.

You're holding Mandy up as an example of "good" conservatism?

Ahem.

164 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:13:57pm

re: #112 iceweasel

Excellent post. Abbreviated only for emphasis. I would add, to tie it into the earlier points in re: norse mythology and celtic stuff, that there is also a certain element among white supremacists that fantasises about some 'pure' white culture. That's why they seek to co-opt those particular references and cultures. It has some parallels with the various fascist and racist nationalistic movements in the UK-- there it's a fantasy about some "british culture" or "english cultural tradition" which in fact never existed at all, not in the way they mean it.

Yeah it's a fantasy. It never existed. There's been some pretty fascinating stuff coming out of the study of linguistics as well as biology regarding dna and work done on migration patterns that have been connecting the Celtic tribes of old more with the regions in Indo asia. Gaelic as a language may have more in common with pre-hindu languages then european ones. There are a lot of cultural similarities as well including cosmology and general worldview.

165 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:14:03pm

re: #149 freetoken

Frum is pretty clearly a neo-conservative, and the paleocons and libertarian fundamentalists hate him for it, and have done so for quite a while.

What people forget about neo-cons is they're often socially liberal!

166 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:14:21pm

re: #158 prairiefire

Thanks, Alouette. Is the mall open? I think you mentioned the mud based items for excema.

the Zionist Mall is open 24/7

Dead Sea cosmetics.

167 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:14:22pm

BTW, I believe Karl Rove is going to be on Meet the Press in the morning. Guess he's crawled out of whatever hidey hole he's been under.

Speaking of powerful Republicans with lots of $$.

168 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:14:44pm

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

OK, that's being an ass. I'm not a racist, nor is Mandy, nor NJDHF, nor Thanos. There are a good number of conservatives still on this blog and none of them are racist.

After all the "islam is not a race" stuff...

169 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:15:07pm

re: #167 marjoriemoon

BTW, I believe Karl Rove is going to be on Meet the Press in the morning. Guess he's crawled out of whatever hidey hole he's been under.

Speaking of powerful Republicans with lots of $$.

Mandy praised him the other day for boasting that he was proud of torturing people.

170 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:15:18pm

re: #155 marjoriemoon

We have a Black president. This is how it started.

Now every racist and bigot in the country has a bandwagon to jump on. Is this where we want to go? Does it mean we'll never have another non-white male as President? A woman, an Asian, a Jew, an American Indian? They are trying to keep it from ever happening again. That's what this is all about.

It started during the primaries, and guess which party had racism problems back then?

Democrats Face Racial Issue Again

After the Democratic primary in South Carolina turned racially divisive in January, Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama essentially declared a truce and put a stop to fighting between their camps. But this week, race has once again begun casting a pall over the battle between the two.

171 sandbox  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:15:35pm

re: #168 WindUpBird

Is Islam a race?

172 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:15:54pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

I'll agree with the following modification: Substitute "a majority" with the phrase "at least a substantial minority".

Well, part of the problem is that the GOP base has shrunk dramatically, if you look at who is still willing to identify themselves as "Republican". So while it isn't true to say it of "everyone registered as Republican" (and no one here is, afaik) it definitely is true about the leadership and those still in that base. That's why the current leadership is blowing those dogwhistles.

And it's terrible. Not just for the sane and normal conservatives here, but just terrible strategy because these decisions aren't going to increase the GOP demographics.

173 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:16:20pm

re: #152 jaunte

I believe that the panderers have miscalculated by trying to enlist the fanatics, and will continue to lose.

I hope you are right.

174 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:16:21pm

re: #169 Cato the Elder

She replaced Palin as your target?

Wearing thin Cato.

175 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:16:41pm

re: #153 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What's that from? That's beautiful.

It was said by Erich Fromm, it's the last speech in my play "I Never Promised You a Rose Garden." There is a connection in the story line to Erich, if you know the history of psychotherapy.

I though it had a nice message for hope, that's why I posted it.

176 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:17:05pm

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

I'm just not convinced you're conservative is all. Sane-libertarian when it comes to government, moderate and centrist otherwise, but not conservative as these articles have so recently revealed.

177 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:17:20pm

re: #140 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh steve you are so much smarter than me. Thank you for reminding me that my posts must meet with your approval! How dare I think that I might know something you do not already know?!? We know that is not possible...

///

they don't have to meet my approval...your preaching does not apply to me, but they are fun to read sometimes

178 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:17:29pm

re: #154 albusteve

I don't identify with the GOP...those people are their problem, bunch of talking heads won't budge me from my principles...I don't get all swept away with them, in fact I care exactly as much for them as they do for me...the only generalization I ever make is that I hate the feds, all of them, always have

So in otherwords, you don't have a dog in this race and were just trolling... carry on then!

179 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:18:06pm

re: #174 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

She replaced Palin as your target?

Wearing thin Cato.

That's what they told me when I refused to stop hammering Palin.

Look how that turned out.

180 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:18:29pm

re: #172 iceweasel

re: #173 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks iceweasel, for posting the Gallup info:

So far in 2009, aggregated Gallup Poll data show the divide on leaned party identification is 53% Democratic and 39% Republican -- a marked change from 2001, when the parties were evenly matched, according to an average of all of that year's Gallup Polls. That represents a loss of five points for the Republicans and a gain of eight points for the Democrats.


Racism is a loser tactic.

181 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:18:41pm

re: #168 WindUpBird

After all the "islam is not a race" stuff...

Well, it isn't. It clearly isn't. Mandy has expressed opposition to a religion, but not racism.

182 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:18:41pm

re: #169 Cato the Elder

Mandy praised him the other day for boasting that he was proud of torturing people.

Shhh.... it was not torture. It was enhanced interrogation!

183 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:18:55pm

re: #138 Cato the Elder

At least you are not niggardly with your arguments.

I'm reading too much of Ludwig I think.

184 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:19:26pm

re: #179 Cato the Elder

That's what they told me when I refused to stop hammering Palin.

Look how that turned out.

Hmmm,,, she's even MORE popular/wealthy/influential then ever!?!?!

Yup ,, your diabiolical plan is working to a T

185 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:19:27pm

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

You can't compare the statement that Ferraro made with what's happening in the article Charles just posted. Worlds away.

There was no "racial tension" between Hillary and Obama. At all. Never. and Geraldine Ferraro is no bigot either. She made a stupid statement. I don't believe Harry Reid is a bigot either.

186 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:19:36pm

re: #109 Racer X

I'm a conservative and I'm not racist.

What, do we have to write it 100 times on the chalkboard or something...?

187 palomino  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:19:49pm

re: #147 WindUpBird

Eh, it's actually sort of satisfying to be at odds with your peeps on your blog. I have a blog and I've taken some unpopular positions (like my position on smoking in bars) and oh man was I in the vast minority.

Maybe so in some cases, but here you should look at what his commenters are saying. They've got no respect for him whatsoever and kick him around like he's a sack of potatoes. Moreover, they blame his "kind" (RINOs) for all their electoral woes and see him as a giant wussy traitor.

188 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:19:53pm

re: #172 iceweasel

Well, part of the problem is that the GOP base has shrunk dramatically, if you look at who is still willing to identify themselves as "Republican". So while it isn't true to say it of "everyone registered as Republican" (and no one here is, afaik) it definitely is true about the leadership and those still in that base. That's why the current leadership is blowing those dogwhistles.

And it's terrible. Not just for the sane and normal conservatives here, but just terrible strategy because these decisions aren't going to increase the GOP demographics.

I'm still registered as a Republican.

189 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:20:15pm

re: #163 Cato the Elder

You're holding Mandy up as an example of "good" conservatism?

Ahem.

I don't feel left out myself....I dislike those groups made up on the fly

190 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:20:32pm

re: #180 jaunte


Racism is a loser tactic.


Attacking "immigration" is not, however.

Packaging makes the product.

191 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:20:43pm

re: #180 jaunte

Racism is a loser tactic.


This applies to you idiots at the Texas SBOE, if any of you are reading here, for pissing off a huge Hispanic voting bloc.

192 palomino  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:21:05pm

re: #149 freetoken

Frum is pretty clearly a neo-conservative, and the paleocons and libertarian fundamentalists hate him for it, and have done so for quite a while.

True, but at his site, it's the culture warriors who are out for his blood because he's a non-teabagging moderate on some issues.

His neoconservatism doesn't seem to bother his right-wing detractors that much.

193 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:21:26pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

I'm still registered as a Republican.

Ditto ,, and considering the choices I have (sorry OJOE ,, no WHIG here) I'll most likely be staying that way at least thru this next election

194 Racer X  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:21:31pm

Amazing and Beautiful Flooded Meadow

Take a deep breath, relax for a few minutes.

195 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:21:32pm

re: #184 sattv4u2

Hmmm,,, she's even MORE popular/wealthy/influential then ever!?!?!

Yup ,, your diabiolical plan is working to a T

I was talking about the change of opinion on this blog.

Mandy's exact words about Rove's self-pleasuring torture rant were: "ROVE, YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD! I'M GOING TO READ YOUR BOOK."

Epic feh.

196 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:21:59pm

re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote

So in otherwords, you don't have a dog in this race and were just trolling... carry on then!

I'm the only dog in this race...

197 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:22:16pm

Here's a nasty article from the site in question. It's closet anti-Semitism:

Biden, Bibi and Bombing Iran

198 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:23:00pm

re: #183 Naso Tang

I'm reading too much of Ludwig I think.

Soon my apprentice you too will join the dark side.

Did I mention we have really shiny space cruisers and ewok darts - you use the force to toss ewoks at the trash compactor!

If there is a girl you like - trust me that mind trick comes in handy...

"Why I am Brad Pitt..."

And never ever forget choking the insolent with the force. It is more stress relieving then a massage from the chick who thinks you are Brad Pitt.

199 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:23:05pm

re: #123 LudwigVanQuixote

My favorite version of it has always been that they are the actual Jews and that Jesus was a guy with blond hair and blue eyes.

I encountered one of those. His name was McKenzie. His ancestors came from the tribe of McKenzie in the province of Judea known as Glasgow.

That was always the worst part of Judea. Especially on a friday night.

200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:23:18pm

re: #179 Cato the Elder

That's what they told me when I refused to stop hammering Palin.

Look how that turned out.

Your goal is?

201 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:23:22pm

re: #195 Cato the Elder

I was talking about the change of opinion on this blog.

Mandy's exact words about Rove's self-pleasuring torture rant were: "ROVE, YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD! I'M GOING TO READ YOUR BOOK."

Epic feh.

That's a "George C Scott as Patton" take.

202 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:23:48pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

I'm still registered as a Republican.

Right-- the point is, lots and lots of people registered as republicans are disgusted with the GOP and the racist tactics (among other issues). Many of them are right here!

If you look at the demographic breakdown in that Gallup poll, the only demo that remains solid for the GOP is older white male conservative christians (primarily in the south) who attend church at least once a week.

That's a demographic that is quite literally dying out. Bad move for the GOP to not appear to care at the moment about expanding their demographics.

203 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:24:15pm

re: #185 marjoriemoon

You can't compare the statement that Ferraro made with what's happening in the article Charles just posted. Worlds away.

There was no "racial tension" between Hillary and Obama. At all. Never. and Geraldine Ferraro is no bigot either. She made a stupid statement. I don't believe Harry Reid is a bigot either.

Again it is just a very conservative ideal he is making. GOP wrongs are only 3/5 of a wrong while Liberal ones are 5/3 of a wrong to compensate (even if they are not a wrong!). It is all fair and balanced!

204 palomino  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:24:28pm

re: #155 marjoriemoon

We have a Black president. This is how it started.

Now every racist and bigot in the country has a bandwagon to jump on. Is this where we want to go? Does it mean we'll never have another non-white male as President? A woman, an Asian, a Jew, an American Indian? They are trying to keep it from ever happening again. That's what this is all about.

Well said, and especially true when you consider how emotional many people's reactions are to presidents. Anger at Clinton over blowjobs ("he betrayed us, in the oval office of all places") or Bush over everything ("halliburton, bush lied, blah blah") are but the tip of the iceberg.

205 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:24:49pm

re: #199 Jimmah

That was always the worst part of Judea. Especially on a friday night.

Yeah, G-d help you after a football game with the Babylonians!

206 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:25:15pm

re: #198 LudwigVanQuixote

Downding, just to get even, and because I think you've been tippling.

207 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:25:40pm

re: #198 LudwigVanQuixote

Soon my apprentice you too will join the dark side.

Did I mention we have really shiny space cruisers and ewok darts - you use the force to toss ewoks at the trash compactor!

If there is a girl you like - trust me that mind trick comes in handy...

"Why I am Brad Pitt..."

And never ever forget choking the insolent with the force. It is more stress relieving then a massage from the chick who thinks you are Brad Pitt.

Good stuff, Ludwig. But Varek Raith is our resident Sith Master. And if there's to be a duel of Dark Jedi then I'll be heading for the hills.

208 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:25:44pm

re: #189 albusteve

I don't feel left out myself...I dislike those groups made up on the fly

Did you ever stop to think it might be easier at this point to just say what you DO like?

209 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:25:46pm

re: #200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Your goal is?

All in good time.

210 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:26:00pm

re: #202 iceweasel

Right-- the point is, lots and lots of people registered as republicans are disgusted with the GOP and the racist tactics (among other issues). Many of them are right here!

If you look at the demographic breakdown in that Gallup poll, the only demo that remains solid for the GOP is older white male conservative christians (primarily in the south) who attend church at least once a week.

That's a demographic that is quite literally dying out. Bad move for the GOP to not appear to care at the moment about expanding their demographics.

And as we know, the minority voice can sometimes be the loudest.

I don't believe for one minute that all Republicans are racist. I mean really. I don't believe all Republicans dislike Obama because of the color of his skin. I think most think his policies stink, but there was no love lost for Clinton either. So...

211 palomino  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:26:40pm

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

Teabagging racists are really Dems? Huh?

You can deflect all you want because there's always some Dem guilty of something. Doesn't change the landscape.

212 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:26:42pm

re: #195 Cato the Elder

I was talking about the change of opinion on this blog.

Mandy's exact words about Rove's self-pleasuring torture rant were: "ROVE, YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD! I'M GOING TO READ YOUR BOOK."

Epic feh.

Whatb "change of opinion"

People here have been telling Mandy that they have been offended by her avatar for a long time. Difference is, most stated it then left it, feeling it was Charles decision to pursue it

Similiar to your frequent time outs. Posters may have been offended by your words, but Charles is the only one that could do anything about it

213 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:26:51pm

re: #197 Dark_Falcon

The author, Hackard, blogs on Taki's site. Take it for what it's worth.

214 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:27:16pm

re: #182 LudwigVanQuixote

Shhh... it was not torture. It was enhanced interrogation!

Remember..We only waterboarded KSM 182 times..
or was it 183 times? I hate KSM..But give me a fucking break...After a certain point show some fucking honor and send the boy to court and I don't care where or by whom..Just stop waterboarding him for Gods sake....
We are Americans..Not Barbarians

215 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:27:25pm

re: #208 bratwurst

Did you ever stop to think it might be easier at this point to just say what you DO like?

A picture is easier: Image: 67CamaroRS-Top.jpg

216 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:27:47pm

re: #211 palomino

Teabagging racists are really Dems? Huh?

You can deflect all you want because there's always some Dem guilty of something. Doesn't change the landscape.

Just reminding you that racists are everywhere, not just on the right.

217 Racer X  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:28:07pm

re: #210 marjoriemoon

I don't believe for one minute that all Republicans are racist. I mean really. I don't believe all Republicans dislike Obama because of the color of his skin. I think most think his policies stink, but there was no love lost for Clinton either.

Yep.

218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:28:44pm

re: #209 Cato the Elder

Well stop it, please.

219 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:29:42pm

re: #215 jaunte

Nothing controversial there!

220 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:29:58pm

I am not a Republican. And I am not a conservative.

I used to protest against being labeled "right wing" or "conservative," but I stopped doing it for two reasons: 1) the media and other bloggers were going to do it anyway, no matter how much I protested, and 2) after 9/11, the "neo-conservative" movement didn't seem like such a bad thing to be associated with.

But since the election of Barack Obama, the bad old racism has come raging back into the mainstream, big time. Not all conservatives are racists, but the ones who aren't racists are standing by and letting the kooks take over.

Count me OUT of this. I doubt I'll ever vote for a Republican candidate again.

221 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:30:11pm

re: #216 NJDhockeyfan

Just reminding you that racists are everywhere, not just on the right.

And so are hypocrites.

222 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:30:33pm

re: #214 HoosierHoops

Thank you Hoops.

223 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:30:35pm

re: #207 Dark_Falcon

Good stuff, Ludwig. But Varek Raith is our resident Sith Master. And if there's to be a duel of Dark Jedi then I'll be heading for the hills.

LOL... I could never match her evil...

Just the other day I was talking about how I like to enhanced interrogate my prisoners by stapling them to the floor with a carpet gun and then striding over their heaving bodies.

She said what - "no cleats?!? You amateur!"

224 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:30:55pm

re: #212 sattv4u2

Whatb "change of opinion"

People here have been telling Mandy that they have been offended by her avatar for a long time. Difference is, most stated it then left it, feeling it was Charles decision to pursue it

Similiar to your frequent time outs. Posters may have been offended by your words, but Charles is the only one that could do anything about it

I have had exactly one timeout, asshat. It was for suggesting that the solution to AGW might be worse than the problem.

And I was talking about the change of opinion here regarding "Deth Panil" Palin. Or hadn't you noticed? When I first told the truth about her here, I was in SpaceJesus territory.

And by the way, the possessive form of "Charles" is "Charles's". And what does "similiar" mean? Have you been drinking?

Now go borrow a rope from Mandy.

225 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:31:08pm

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well stop it, please.

No.

226 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:31:30pm

re: #208 bratwurst

Did you ever stop to think it might be easier at this point to just say what you DO like?

that stuff is for other people...ask me tho and I'll give you an honest answer...everybody here, that's paid attention for 3 years, know I'm an old fashioned three legged conservative...I don't relate to groups or parties other than sharing a point of view

227 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:31:31pm

re: #214 HoosierHoops

Remember..We only waterboarded KSM 182 times..
or was it 183 times? I hate KSM..But give me a fucking break...After a certain point show some fucking honor and send the boy to court and I don't care where or by whom..Just stop waterboarding him for Gods sake...
We are Americans..Not Barbarians

Amen!

And people were angry that I mentioned that behavior as comparable to the Norks.

228 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:32:08pm

re: #203 LudwigVanQuixote

Again it is just a very conservative ideal he is making. GOP wrongs are only 3/5 of a wrong while Liberal ones are 5/3 of a wrong to compensate (even if they are not a wrong!). It is all fair and balanced!

I think it's true that we can find ill-conceived remarks from both sides as well racists on both sides. But what troubles me is that certain Republicans of influence are associating with these racist folks. I never thought Limbaugh had any real influence until Steele was made to apologize and that pretty well blew my mind.

229 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:32:10pm

re: #224 Cato the Elder

Now go borrow a rope from Mandy.

Can't you piss up one without help!?

230 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:32:19pm

re: #166 Alouette

Hey, I ordered 2 things from Dead Sea. When looking at other things in the mall, Safari popped up a message that they could not verify the identity of Judaica Web Store, FYI.

231 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:32:22pm

re: #223 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL... I could never match her evil...

Just the other day I was talking about how I like to enhanced interrogate my prisoners by stapling them to the floor with a carpet gun and then striding over their heaving bodies.

She said what - "no cleats?!? You amateur!"

Hmm, did I accidentally put on the Gender Bender belt today???

232 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:32:36pm

re: #212 sattv4u2

So Satt you really never do have anything to contribute other than being a gadfly. You know some of us post for reasons other than vendetta.

233 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:33:02pm

re: #231 Varek Raith

Hmm, did I accidentally put on the Gender Bender belt today???

OOOps! sorry.

234 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:33:02pm

re: #224 Cato the Elder

And by the way, the possessive form of "Charles" is "Charles's".

I thought it was "Charles' " without the extra S.

/semantics, semantics

235 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:33:26pm

re: #233 LudwigVanQuixote

OOOps! sorry.

Heh, no problemo.

236 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:33:27pm

re: #223 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL... I could never match her evil...

Just the other day I was talking about how I like to enhanced interrogate my prisoners by stapling them to the floor with a carpet gun and then striding over their heaving bodies.

She said what - "no cleats?!? You amateur!"

Uh, Varek is a he.

237 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:33:29pm

re: #220 Charles

Not all conservatives are racists, but the ones who aren't racists are standing by and letting the kooks take over.

I do not know of any self-identified "conservative" blogs/bloggers that are publishing about the the problems of racism surfacing in the "right" online presence or print.

If anyone has a link to a "conservative" blogger who is tackling this issue, perhaps they could share?

238 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:33:49pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

That's a "George C Scott as Patton" take.

Those were her exact words, including the shouting.

239 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:34:22pm

re: #225 Cato the Elder

No.

To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it.
-- G. K, Chesterton, A Short History of England, Ch.10

240 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:34:25pm

re: #223 LudwigVanQuixote

"How about we go over to my place for some enhanced interrogation techniques?" - Actual House line

241 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:34:40pm

re: #236 Dark_Falcon

Uh, Varek is a he.

Lol, that's twice today.
XD

242 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:34:51pm

re: #228 marjoriemoon

I think it's true that we can find ill-conceived remarks from both sides as well racists on both sides. But what troubles me is that certain Republicans of influence are associating with these racist folks. I never thought Limbaugh had any real influence until Steele was made to apologize and that pretty well blew my mind.

But it is so much more than just Limbaugh and it is so much more than just a few careless remarks.

Open talk of secession and Dixie flags are inherently racist. Any sensible black person sees a Dixie flag the way we see a swastika- and that is the correct view.

243 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:34:53pm

re: #214 HoosierHoops

How many would have had to die for you to regret not water-boarding him the 183rd time?

He is safe and cozy now, free to sue for each and every drop of water spilled upon his brow.
You are safe because rough men are willing to do unpleasant things to keep you so.

This in no way negates the the fact that you find unpleasant or wrong the actions which keep you safe. In fact, it speaks well of you.

/my 2 cents

244 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:36:18pm

re: #234 laZardo

I thought it was "Charles' " without the extra S.

/semantics, semantics

No.

245 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:36:24pm

re: #232 LudwigVanQuixote

So Satt you really never do have anything to contribute other than being a gadfly. You know some of us post for reasons other than vendetta.

THIS from a person that can't control his temper, has been told any number of times about it (and given your own timeout, iirc), often reverts to name calling akin to a 4th grader in a school yard when someone DARES ask a question or disagree!

{yawn}

246 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:36:42pm

re: #230 prairiefire

Hey, I ordered 2 things from Dead Sea. When looking at other things in the mall, Safari popped up a message that they could not verify the identity of Judaica Web Store, FYI.

Judaica web store is one of my affiliate partners. All the products at the Zionist Mall are sold through partner vendors. ZM is not responsible if vendors do not update their certificates.

247 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:36:45pm

re: #226 albusteve

that stuff is for other people...ask me tho and I'll give you an honest answer...everybody here, that's paid attention for 3 years, know I'm an old fashioned three legged conservative...I don't relate to groups or parties other than sharing a point of view

Yep, no one would call you LGF's man of mystery, that's for sure. You've always been straightforward.

248 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:37:28pm

re: #225 Cato the Elder

No.

how about you and me take a trip to the outback and consider the land and the sky for a while?....forget everything else and return fresh and happy and tolerant once again...I'll even put up with your bilingual rantings about persecuted poets and unclean taco eaters...consider it

249 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:37:48pm

re: #239 The Sanity Inspector

To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it.
-- G. K, Chesterton, A Short History of England, Ch.10

Funny, you never quoted that when people were advocating torture here.

Some still are. And laughing about it.

250 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:37:51pm

re: #230 prairiefire

Hey, I ordered 2 things from Dead Sea. When looking at other things in the mall, Safari popped up a message that they could not verify the identity of Judaica Web Store, FYI.

Which products gave you the error message? I may need to update if the vendor is out of inventory.

251 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:37:55pm

re: #244 Cato the Elder

No.

Okay.

252 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:37:59pm

re: #245 sattv4u2

I have never had a time out Satt and I actually, unlike you write about other things than just trying to snipe at people. That is all you ever post.

I mean really, do you have anything substantive to contribute? I mean ever?

253 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:38:32pm

re: #246 Alouette

Ok, thanks.

254 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:38:42pm

Who was the lizard that recommended the Lindsay Davis novels with the Roman detective? I read one today and it was very entertaining.

255 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:38:42pm

re: #251 laZardo

Okay.

Could be worse... I use too many commas!
,,,

256 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:38:50pm

re: #252 LudwigVanQuixote

I have never had a time out Satt and I actually, unlike you write about other things than just trying to snipe at people. That is all you ever post.

I mean really, do you have anything substantive to contribute? I mean ever?

nope ,, it's my own personal niche!

You have validated how good I am at it ,, thanks!

257 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:39:23pm

re: #242 LudwigVanQuixote

But it is so much more than just Limbaugh and it is so much more than just a few careless remarks.

Open talk of secession and Dixie flags are inherently racist. Any sensible black person sees a Dixie flag the way we see a swastika- and that is the correct view.

That's what I meant. What troubles me is that these aren't just weird nuts. They're influential Republicans. Some of them anyway.

258 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:39:27pm

re: #241 Varek Raith

Lol, that's twice today.
XD

It's because of your comments on KOTOR when you mentioned what you can do to Carth as a female. I assumed incorrectly from that.

259 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:39:27pm

And if you want to see how bad the craziness is getting on the right, check out the #texastextbookfact feed on Twitter.

It's mind-blowing. These people live in a parallel universe.

260 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:39:30pm

re: #256 sattv4u2

nope ,, it's my own personal niche!

You have validated how good I am at it ,, thanks!

And proud of it it seems?

261 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:39:41pm

BBIAB

262 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:39:57pm

re: #257 marjoriemoon

That's what I meant. What troubles me is that these aren't just weird nuts. They're influential Republicans. Some of them anyway.

Much more than some.

263 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:40:07pm

re: #260 Walter L. Newton

And proud of it it seems?

you're still not naked !

264 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:40:18pm

re: #220 Charles

I am not a Republican. And I am not a conservative.

I used to protest against being labeled "right wing" or "conservative," but I stopped doing it for two reasons: 1) the media and other bloggers were going to do it anyway, no matter how much I protested, and 2) after 9/11, the "neo-conservative" movement didn't seem like such a bad thing to be associated with.

But since the election of Barack Obama, the bad old racism has come raging back into the mainstream, big time. Not all conservatives are racists, but the ones who aren't racists are standing by and letting the kooks take over.

Count me OUT of this. I doubt I'll ever vote for a Republican candidate again.

I'm about to turn that corner with you, but I gave my word to hand in and fight through next election.

265 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:40:28pm

re: #263 sattv4u2

you're still not naked !

I had forgotten about that.

266 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:40:41pm

re: #228 marjoriemoon

I think it's true that we can find ill-conceived remarks from both sides as well racists on both sides. But what troubles me is that certain Republicans of influence are associating with these racist folks. I never thought Limbaugh had any real influence until Steele was made to apologize and that pretty well blew my mind.

and mine..Steele had a golden opportunity long before that shuffle to speak out and he didn't....the floodgates opened, and he's an accomplice to this madness...he's black...wtf kind of man is he?

267 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:40:59pm

re: #258 LudwigVanQuixote

It's because of your comments on KOTOR when you mentioned what you can do to Carth as a female. I assumed incorrectly from that.

Ah, I tend to roleplay characters that are as far removed from myself as possible. Hence, female characters.
:)

268 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:41:05pm

re: #248 albusteve

how about you and me take a trip to the outback and consider the land and the sky for a while?...forget everything else and return fresh and happy and tolerant once again...I'll even put up with your bilingual rantings about persecuted poets and unclean taco eaters...consider it

I'm going to go take a break right now and do just that. Sometimes the persistence of smirking evil gets overwhelming.

Later, bro.

269 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:41:09pm

/hang in...

270 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:41:59pm

re: #265 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had forgotten about that.

hehehehehe

271 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:42:13pm

re: #263 sattv4u2

you're still not naked !

Let me give you the IP of my web cam.

272 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:42:22pm

re: #270 sattv4u2

hehehehehe

I thought that was SB's gig???

273 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:42:37pm

re: #259 Charles

And if you want to see how bad the craziness is getting on the right, check out the #texastextbookfact feed on Twitter.

It's mind-blowing. These people live in a parallel universe.

I sense some mocking going on...


WarriorBanker RT @Shoq:As best science can determine, God created the Grand Canyon as a deep water port for Noah's Ark
274 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:42:53pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

Let me give you the IP of my web cam.

Fat Veggie B wants it also

275 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:43:33pm

re: #274 sattv4u2

No, not really. Thanks anyway. You are much too kind. I'll let you bask in the "whiteness".

276 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:43:39pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

Let me give you the IP of my web cam.

Ah no, you promised an avatar!

277 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:44:13pm

re: #273 jaunte

I sense some mocking going on...

Lots of mockery now -- it started as a right wing thread, but it's been taken over by sane people.

278 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:44:15pm

re: #276 Stanley Sea

Ah no, you promised an avatar!

WE WANT AN AVATAR
WE WANT AN AVATAR
WE WANT AN AVATAR
WE WANT AN AVATAR

279 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:44:19pm

re: #262 LudwigVanQuixote

Much more than some.

Let me have my diplomacy. I'm getting over the flu :p

280 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:45:09pm

re: #243 swamprat

How many would have had to die for you to regret not water-boarding him the 183rd time?

He is safe and cozy now, free to sue for each and every drop of water spilled upon his brow.
You are safe because rough men are willing to do unpleasant things to keep you so.

This in no way negates the the fact that you find unpleasant or wrong the actions which keep you safe. In fact, it speaks well of you.

/my 2 cents

You honestly feel you need to water board an man a 183 fucking times?
Do it right the first time is what the DOD always taught me..
And don't you dare call me safe and cozy about America...My Son served in Iraq...I think..and you can check this out..I think I got the highest updings in history around 73 when I posted about Jordan calling home from a roof top in Iraq at 3 am..You can't even go to bed for 2 days.
Be well... Thank God for keeping my boy safe in Fallujah

281 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:45:32pm

re: #259 Charles

Looks like they're getting punk'd on their own feed, at this moment.

282 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:45:45pm

re: #259 Charles

And if you want to see how bad the craziness is getting on the right, check out the #texastextbookfact feed on Twitter.

It's mind-blowing. These people live in a parallel universe.

Parallel? It's more like they want to well and truly f**k up our universe...

283 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:46:19pm

proof that religion is bad for your health...
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

284 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:46:47pm

re: #280 HoosierHoops

You honestly feel you need to water board an man a 183 fucking times?
Do it right the first time is what the DOD always taught me..
And don't you dare call me safe and cozy about America...My Son served in Iraq...I think..and you can check this out..I think I got the highest updings in history around 73 when I posted about Jordan calling home from a roof top in Iraq at 3 am..You can't even go to bed for 2 days.
Be well... Thank God for keeping my boy safe in Fallujah

The OIG of the CIA itself concluded that the procedures for even the EIT were exceeded when waterboarding KSM.

That may be my record for most acronyms in one sentence, btw.

Take care Hoops. Thanks to your son and good wishes to you both.

285 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:47:13pm

re: #277 Charles

Lots of mockery now -- it started as a right wing thread, but it's been taken over by sane people.

Yeah it looks like it.

"the flintstones is an accurate historical record"

Early cowboys rustled Dinosaurs out of Mexico, then one day, they invented cattle

Jesus rode a dinosaur when he fought in the Alamo

286 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:48:17pm

re: #281 The Sanity Inspector

Looks like they're getting punk'd on their own feed, at this moment.

"The bigger the hair, the closer to God"

287 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:48:29pm

This thread reminded me of a issue I really don't know how to address. I spend a lot of time on a old car hobbiest web site and we occasional discuss issues that are off topic. One poster who is very popular in the hobby often posts cleverly disguised racist comments that he uses to sway folks to his way of thinking.
After some research, I found he was a very active, and well know member of Crosstar, a white nationalist hate group. Problem is, he is otherwise a well respected car nut, and his racism is not well known. How should I deal with the issue, since he is spreading his racist crap without being extremely overt about it ? I'm convinced the group would be shocked to find a respected hobbyist was a neo-Nazi that is spreading his hate covertly.
Do I just e-mail him and suggest he stick to hobby topics since I know his background or what ?

288 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:48:49pm

re: #283 albusteve

proof that religion is bad for your health...
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I saw that. Holy (heh) crap.

289 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:48:51pm

re: #286 Stanley Sea

"Joseph McCarthy saved the US from communist infiltration. And witches."

290 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:48:56pm

Glad I don't do the twitter thing.

291 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:49:01pm

re: #278 sattv4u2

WE WANT AN AVATAR
WE WANT AN AVATAR
WE WANT AN AVATAR
WE WANT AN AVATAR

I want a Hurt Locker.

292 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:49:21pm

re: #250 Alouette

Dead Sea Premium was out of AHAVA Dermud gentle facial cleanser on the first order. I just tried again and it showed as in stock for a second order.
Judaica webstore says their certificate was issued by "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority", good through mid July, but Safari says that is an inknown authority.

293 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:49:22pm

This goes out to NJDhockeyfan, and others, who seem to think the mere existence of racism among those who are registered (D) somehow means that the thrust of the Democratic Party is also that, or that it somehow excuses the racism running rampant among conservative and GOP circles.

From the 2008 campaign, here is the Secretary-Treasurer of the AFL-CIO ( regarded as a Democratic stronghold) addressing racism in his own party:

The problem is there is right now no, as far as we know, no one on the "right" who will likewise stand up in front of a crowd of their own and do something likewise.

294 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:49:23pm

re: #275 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #278 sattv4u2

re: #274 sattv4u2

re: #276 Stanley Sea

Ah no, you promised an avatar!

Ok... are you all going to pile on me because I haven't changed my avatar to a picture of me naked with my Siberian Husky.

Charles... can we have a ruling on this?

295 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:49:24pm

re: #283 albusteve

that's really sad.

296 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:49:27pm

re: #286 Stanley Sea

"The bigger the hair, the closer to God"

no shit

297 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:50:01pm

To all thin skinned whiny types of all stripes.

LGF is not conservative. It is not liberal.

What we are is anti - idiot.

If you say idiotic things you get hell.

If you say that ID is science, we give you hell.

If you say that the Palestinians are really freedom fighters, we give you hell.

If you say AGW isn't real, we give you hell.

If you say that there is no racism in the GOP, we give you hell.

If you say that Rush is just a satirist or make any of the other lame excuses like that for any of the others of his ilk, like RP, Beck, Buchanan etc.. we give you hell.

The pattern here is that we are pro fact, pro rationality and anti-idiot.

Since the web is the place for people to say stupid things that they would not have the courage to say in public, we get a metric fuck ton of idiots. They all get the same treatment.

If you do not like to be called out for saying stupid things, then have the facts to back your statements and make o case for them. If on the other hand you feel that you are an expert in all things and that your bluster about something completely untrue should be accepted, at first you get a counter argument with facts and then if you persist, you get put in the idiot bin.

And by the way, at LGF we hate idiots.

298 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:50:10pm

If anybody thinks interrogative torture is funny, or that somehow America is going to avoid any fallout from the practice;
They are very wrong.

I hope to hell we have accomplished more than just pissing off alot of people while we lower our standing with the world. I hope these actions have resulted in demonstrable saving of lives.
Both sides are claiming the high ground. I sure hope the swamp is getting drained while all these people are posturing.

299 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:50:20pm

re: #287 avanti

This thread reminded me of a issue I really don't know how to address. I spend a lot of time on a old car hobbiest web site and we occasional discuss issues that are off topic. One poster who is very popular in the hobby often posts cleverly disguised racist comments that he uses to sway folks to his way of thinking.
After some research, I found he was a very active, and well know member of Crosstar, a white nationalist hate group. Problem is, he is otherwise a well respected car nut, and his racism is not well known. How should I deal with the issue, since he is spreading his racist crap without being extremely overt about it ? I'm convinced the group would be shocked to find a respected hobbyist was a neo-Nazi that is spreading his hate covertly.
Do I just e-mail him and suggest he stick to hobby topics since I know his background or what ?

Does the board have moderators you could email?

300 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:50:21pm

re: #287 avanti

Public forum? Can you reply, "What do you mean by that?" And have your question appear specific.

Is the guy dangerous?

301 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:50:41pm

re: #287 avanti

This thread reminded me of a issue I really don't know how to address. I spend a lot of time on a old car hobbiest web site and we occasional discuss issues that are off topic. One poster who is very popular in the hobby often posts cleverly disguised racist comments that he uses to sway folks to his way of thinking.
After some research, I found he was a very active, and well know member of Crosstar, a white nationalist hate group. Problem is, he is otherwise a well respected car nut, and his racism is not well known. How should I deal with the issue, since he is spreading his racist crap without being extremely overt about it ? I'm convinced the group would be shocked to find a respected hobbyist was a neo-Nazi that is spreading his hate covertly.
Do I just e-mail him and suggest he stick to hobby topics since I know his background or what ?

you didn't say what the issue is...

302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:50:56pm

re: #294 Walter L. Newton

Better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission, I always say...

303 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:51:14pm

re: #294 Walter L. Newton

re: #278 sattv4u2

re: #274 sattv4u2

re: #276 Stanley Sea

Ok... are you all going to pile on me because I haven't changed my avatar to a picture of me naked with my Siberian Husky.

Charles... can we have a ruling on this?

...No avatar change, thankyouverymuch!
:)

304 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:51:40pm

It;s pretty funny now... lots of mocking....

Glenn Beck & Sean Hannity are direct decendants of the founding fathers

Socialists, Communists, Maoists and Nazis are all pretty much the same. Some blog said so

Rosa Parks was white and carried a gun

the louisiana purchase was made at walmart

And then, thank heavens, some hacked emails proved the evolutionists had planted fossils all over the world

305 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:51:41pm

re: #300 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Public forum? Can you reply, "What do you mean by that?" And have your question appear to everyone?

Is the guy dangerous?

I have no idea why I typed specific there. No earthly idea.

306 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:52:02pm

re: #303 Varek Raith

...No avatar change, thankyouverymuch!
:)

You're afraid I'm self centered enough to do it... aren't you?

307 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:52:42pm

re: #284 iceweasel

The OIG of the CIA itself concluded that the procedures for even the EIT were exceeded when waterboarding KSM.

That may be my record for most acronyms in one sentence, btw.

Take care Hoops. Thanks to your son and good wishes to you both.

No...(ICE)
One time when Jordan was home on leave i cornered him in the kitchen as we drank a bud light..
Son..What happens when you capture a terrorist?
Do you kick his ass? What do you do?
Jordan got serious..Looked me in the eye and said ' Pops..We just send those guys up the chain of command'
I sleep well at night knowing our kids our heros in this war....

308 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:53:06pm

re: #283 albusteve

proof that religion is bad for your health...
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

What religion was she following? Doesn't say.

It looks as though I may have to go on a lengthy fast in order to qualify for a new health insurance policy when my Aetna premiums go up in 2 months.

309 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:53:08pm

re: #306 Walter L. Newton

You're afraid I'm self centered enough to do it... aren't you?

Nah, well, maybe...
:P

310 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:53:37pm

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission, I always say...

I don't do either, but I have had an unusual sort of life...so far....if I'm wrong about things I may have to resort to begging forgiveness if the alternet is an eternity burning in hell...even so I don't think they will fall for it....I'm fucked

311 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:53:43pm

re: #280 HoosierHoops


It speaks well of you. I hope it was necessary.
Not a light thing.

312 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:54:19pm

Hey Charles check out the referrers. Got one coming in from some blog...A Conservative Teacher


Little Green Footballs Wrong on Texas School Board

Typical wingnut pablum. Pablum puking wingnuts... hmmm, I like it.

313 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:54:38pm

BBIAB, gotta check that damned useless sump pump.

314 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:54:40pm

re: #308 Alouette

pentecostal.

315 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:55:09pm

re: #299 The Sanity Inspector

It does, perhaps just a heads up, and hope the moderator is a rational fellow. To be honest, neo-Nazi's make me a bit nervous about how they would react to being outed while secretly doing their thing.

316 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:55:27pm

re: #313 Varek Raith

BBIAB, gotta check that damned useless sump pump.

Gotta pump your sump?

317 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:55:55pm

re: #308 Alouette

What religion was she following? Doesn't say.

It looks as though I may have to go on a lengthy fast in order to qualify for a new health insurance policy when my Aetna premiums go up in 2 months.

I can't imagine...good luck with that

318 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:56:09pm

re: #314 zora

pentecostal.

Don't they know that Muslims fast for an entire month? During the daylight hours, they can stuff all they want once the sun goes down.

Jews have only 6 fast days a year, and only 2 of those are 24-hours.

319 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:56:20pm

re: #297 LudwigVanQuixote

If you say that there is no racism in the GOP, we give you hell.


Glad to see you are being specidfic making the qualification now, we are done grasshopper now that you've learned the lesson.

320 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:57:02pm

re: #300 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Public forum? Can you reply, "What do you mean by that?" And have your question appear specific.

Is the guy dangerous?

He may not be personally dangerous, but his group could well be, and he is pretty high up in their organization.

321 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:57:03pm

re: #317 albusteve

I can't imagine...good luck with that

Who needs "death panels" when we already have "fat panels"?

322 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:57:12pm

re: #318 Alouette

Don't they know that Muslims fast for an entire month? During the daylight hours, they can stuff all they want once the sun goes down.

Jews have only 6 fast days a year, and only 2 of those are 24-hours.

Thanks. Now I'm hungry.

323 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:57:12pm

re: #314 zora

pentecostal.

I see nothing wrong with that. Adults the bunch of them. If it were children, a problem, adults, their problem.

324 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:57:15pm

re: #315 avanti

It does, perhaps just a heads up, and hope the moderator is a rational fellow. To be honest, neo-Nazi's make me a bit nervous about how they would react to being outed while secretly doing their thing.

just ignore the guy

325 Bagua  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:57:29pm

re: #310 albusteve

I don't do either, but I have had an unusual sort of life...so far...if I'm wrong about things I may have to resort to begging forgiveness if the alternet is an eternity burning in hell...even so I don't think they will fall for it...I'm fucked

No problem. Just say, you got messed up.


- RLB
326 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:58:39pm

re: #321 Alouette

Who needs "death panels" when we already have "fat panels"?

Insurance premiums are different depending on a persons weight?

327 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:58:51pm

re: #283 albusteve

proof that religion is bad for your health...
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

They'll have to update this study with that anecdote, then...

328 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:59:03pm

re: #323 Walter L. Newton

I see nothing wrong with that. Adults the bunch of them. If it were children, a problem, adults, their problem.

me neither...if they don't like food it's non of my business

329 Racer X  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 7:59:37pm

re: #324 albusteve

just ignore the guy

Ignoring racists got us into the mess we are in now.

330 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:00:21pm

re: #319 Thanos

Glad to see you are being specidfic making the qualification now, we are done grasshopper now that you've learned the lesson.

Thanos, you are a massive hypocrite and a jerk for writing that.

The GOP is riddled from top to bottom with racism. It is not a small thing. It is not a small movement and it is not a fact that will go away no matter how much you click your heels and want to go home.

I have never said that all people in the GOP are racist.

What is as obvious as the momentum conservation is that the GOP panders to racism daily and that most of its loudest voices are racist. It is as obvious that the GOP is racist as it is that the Dems are liberal, and that is said in the same way. Just as not all Dems are liberal, there are blue dogs, the Democratic party as a whole is liberal. The same principle applies to the GOP. It is a racist party.

I have no problem debating facts with you but I am sick of you distorting my words in order to deflect from the facts. Save your false sense of slighted honor for elsewhere and argue honorably.

331 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:00:53pm

re: #329 Racer X

Ignoring racists got us into the mess we are in now.

then pursue the alternative...pretty simple
do you think that will convince him of his evil ways?

332 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:00:54pm

re: #329 Racer X

Ignoring racists got us into the mess we are in now.

Would that I had a thousand updings for that.

333 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:01:04pm

re: #326 Jadespring

Insurance premiums are different depending on a persons weight?

Yes, they determine rates according to your BMI.

334 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:01:07pm

re: #301 albusteve

you didn't say what the issue is...

If you don't see the issue, I'll try again. A neo-nazi is spreading his crap with being up front about his motives or background on a blog.
This guy is not a "casual racist", he's very active.

335 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:01:26pm

re: #287 avanti

This thread reminded me of a issue I really don't know how to address. I spend a lot of time on a old car hobbiest web site and we occasional discuss issues that are off topic. One poster who is very popular in the hobby often posts cleverly disguised racist comments that he uses to sway folks to his way of thinking.
After some research, I found he was a very active, and well know member of Crosstar, a white nationalist hate group. Problem is, he is otherwise a well respected car nut, and his racism is not well known. How should I deal with the issue, since he is spreading his racist crap without being extremely overt about it ? I'm convinced the group would be shocked to find a respected hobbyist was a neo-Nazi that is spreading his hate covertly.
Do I just e-mail him and suggest he stick to hobby topics since I know his background or what ?

Next time he makes a comment, you could say, "I don't want to discuss X anymore. Let's stick to cars." and change the subject. Something along those lines. And hopefully, he'll shut up. You're probably not the only one noticing the "disguised comments" so others may support you off the bat.

And then maybe make a rule that you won't discuss those topics anymore. My hubby and I belong to a gaming group. We've been playing together 7 years now. We have never, ever, ever discuss politics, religion, even current events. You may want to set a rule like that.

336 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:01:48pm

re: #324 albusteve

just ignore the guy

I'm not comfortable with that choice.

337 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:01:54pm

re: #314 zora

pentecostal.

I went to a pentecostal church once when I was young...
Everybody was talking in Tongues..
I'm sure they were talking about me..But I'm not sure

338 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:01:55pm

re: #324 albusteve

just ignore the guy

No.

Avanti, I don't know. Hoping to see some responses here, because I think it's a big deal. Don't be silent.

339 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:02:01pm

re: #330 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks for calling me a racist. I'm a jerk?

340 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:02:05pm

re: #332 LudwigVanQuixote

Would that I had a thousand updings for that.

scold 'em!...that will work

341 Bagua  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:02:42pm

re: #320 avanti

He may not be personally dangerous, but his group could well be, and he is pretty high up in their organization.

Neo-Nazi? You are right to consider your security with one such as he. Email me the details and I'll join up and out the bastard.

342 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:02:48pm

re: #333 Alouette

Yes, they determine rates according to your BMI.

That's pretty screwy.

343 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:02:49pm

I know this gets tiresome: Hot Air sez.....
“Thousands” rally at Minnesota capital to “Kill the Bill”

Give the Star Tribune credit; they actually report that “thousands” attended a rally in freezing weather today to demand an end to the ObamaCare effort. Minnesota Majority staged the rally on the state capital mall to hear Reps. John Kline and Michele Bachmann speak to the gathered opponents of the overhaul of the health-care system, as well as several other speakers — including me. The Strib did better than the Associated Press, which went with “at least hundreds” instead:

I just assume the "thousands" claim is bogus because it's repeated on a right wing blog. The pics are dubious. Who is the "Minnesota Majority"? Here's their suggested reading list from Amazon....

The 5000 Year Leap: by W. Cleon Skousen (Birch society propaganda)

Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand (freakazoid fiction)

An Inconvenient Book: by Glenn Beck (more Birch society propaganda)

Taking America Back by Joseph Farah (birther idiot from World Nut Daily)

The Marketing of Evil by David Kupelian (another WND idiot)

Original Intent: by David Barton (WallBuilders idiot)

The Fair Tax Book: by Neal Boortz (easily debunked nonsense)

The Revolution: A Manifesto by Ron Paul (Ron Paul!)

The Federalist Papers by Alexander Hamilton (A Favorite of right wing terrorists)

Why do I bother? This isn't even a challenge anymore. At least the lefties under the Bush Regime were a challenge to fact check.

344 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:02:53pm

re: #325 Bagua

No problem. Just say, you got messed up.

[Video]
- RLB

very nice...I just might have to expand my relationship with you

345 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:03:15pm

re: #339 Thanos

Thanks for calling me a racist. I'm a jerk?

What I did not call you racist! Where did I call you racist? I don't think you are a racist. I think you are being willfully blind and arguing falsely.

346 palomino  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:03:36pm

re: #216 NJDhockeyfan

Just reminding you that racists are everywhere, not just on the right.

Point taken. I knew plenty of racist Dems growing up in TX, including my own grandparents.

But as I got older the Dems at least tried to clean their own house of this, and now it seems to infect the right to a much greater degree.

347 lostlakehiker  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:03:45pm

re: #155 marjoriemoon

We have a Black president. This is how it started.

Now every racist and bigot in the country has a bandwagon to jump on. Is this where we want to go? Does it mean we'll never have another non-white male as President? A woman, an Asian, a Jew, an American Indian? They are trying to keep it from ever happening again. That's what this is all about.

The logic is warped, that's for sure. If you know how armed forces qualification scores, IQ test scores, SAT scores, and so forth, are distributed within each of the statistical categories that are kept, by "race", you know that averages scores within different groups are different.

But whether or not the fraction of really bright whites is different from the fraction of really bright blacks, that percentage is beside the point when it comes to individuals. Obama is a bright guy. And by their own account, these hyperventilaters on matters of race are aware that Asians do just fine, thank you, on tests of intelligence. Jews too. They should be aware that there have been very, very bright Hispanics---e.g. Capablanca, many times world chess champion. And though blacks haven't made the ranks of world chess champion, world go champion, Nobel prize in physics, Fields medal, or what have you, we don't pick presidents from that tier very often. Jefferson may have been an exception, and Lincoln, but then who?

There are black international grandmasters at chess. At a venture, none of this gang can match that. And when it comes to wisdom, our current black justice on the supreme court stands tall. So we should put aside race as a category, and take people one by one, in all their individual variety.

348 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:03:45pm

re: #342 Jadespring

That's pretty screwy.

Not when you are the one who is being screwed.

349 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:03:53pm

i re: #337 HoosierHoops

i've been to a couple myself. the first time i was about ten and was scared shitless.

350 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:03:56pm

Blood-selling Packers fan voted to team's fan Hall

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- A man who said his loyalty to the Green Bay Packers helped save his life has been voted into the team's Fan Hall of Fame. The team announced the honor Saturday for 79-year-old Jim Becker. He attended Packers games for 56 years. Becker said he and his wife raised 11 kids, so money was tight. To afford his season tickets without taking money from his family, he began selling his blood for $15 per pint.

His doctor later found that Becker's father died at age 43 of a condition in which the blood retains too much iron. The only treatment is to remove the iron by giving blood.

By that time Becker had sold 145 pints to pay for his season tickets. He said if he hadn't, he too may have died young.

351 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:04:25pm

re: #345 LudwigVanQuixote

Back at the beginning of all of this when you just said the whole GOP was racist without any qualification, obviously you are still tearing the ricepaper.

352 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:05:01pm

re: #334 avanti

If you don't see the issue, I'll try again. A neo-nazi is spreading his crap with being up front about his motives or background on a blog.
This guy is not a "casual racist", he's very active.

why is that your concern?...if you feel you must, then slam his ass if you think you need to...I don't believe this confrontational stuff....it's the internet, he'll probably threaten to kill you...blah blah

353 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:06:47pm

re: #339 Thanos

Thanks for calling me a racist. I'm a jerk?

standard MO

354 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:07:34pm

re: #351 Thanos

Back at the beginning of all of this when you just said the whole GOP was racist without any qualification, obviously you are still tearing the ricepaper.

Umm I have never said the whole GOP is racist in the sense you are falsely and untruthfully implying. I expect lies and distortions from the wingnuts but not you. I thought you were smarter and more honorable than that.

This is especially obnoxious since I explained exactly what I meant by the phrase to you several times on several different threads. So now it it at the point of you just deciding to be right at all costs and to deflect from the real point by any shady way you can.

The GOP is a racist party. That is a true statement even if there are individual GOPers who are not themselves racist.

355 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:07:43pm

re: #333 Alouette

Yes, they determine rates according to your BMI.

Interesting. Most of us over 40 may be over.

How do they classify you weight? They use something called the Body Mass Index. The typical insurance company considers a BMI of between 18.5 and 24.9 to be normal. Over 25 classifies you as overweight. Above 30 and they think you're obese.

The BMI is calculated as follows. Got your calculator ready?

Enter your weight in pounds and multiply it by 703.

Divide the result by your height measured in inches

Again divide the resulting number by your height in inches

The result displayed is your Body Mass Index
[Link: www.buzzle.com...]

356 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:07:44pm

The "unifying force" behind all of these "scientific racialists" was Paul Weyrich's Free Congress Foundation - if you dig into the past of the neoconfederates, the Buchananites, the VDARE crowd, in the shadows behind them you will find FCF and Heritage. Who has Weyrich's mantle passed to?

357 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:08:30pm

re: #354 LudwigVanQuixote

If you say so dude, I thought I read it.

358 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:08:43pm

re: #338 Stanley Sea

No.

Avanti, I don't know. Hoping to see some responses here, because I think it's a big deal. Don't be silent.

yeah...get involved in a blog fight with a white supremacist?...sounds like fun

359 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:08:58pm

re: #353 albusteve

standard MO

NO not at all... more like distorting what I say when losing an argument and trying to drum false sympathy is the standard MO around here for the wingnuts. God you guys cry like the worst sissies ever.

As to your MO, well you are a troll and always have been.

And no you are not a jerk Stevo, you are an utter asshole.

360 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:09:51pm

re: #358 albusteve

yeah...get involved in a blog fight with a white supremacist?...sounds like fun

No, not a blog fight. An intelligent, and safe way to handle.

Avanti - maybe call the SPLC? Hell, they might give advice over the phone?

361 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:09:54pm

re: #334 avanti

If you don't see the issue, I'll try again. A neo-nazi is spreading his crap with being up front about his motives or background on a blog.
This guy is not a "casual racist", he's very active.

Tough call. Normally I'd say confront him and out him on the board. But those particular sorts of creeps are often dangerous, and I'm guessing he could find enough info about you to know who you are.

Emailing the mods may or may not help. Depends how 'subtle' this guy is being pushing his other agenda (and how committed they are to moderation in general).

You could try emailing the mods and letting them know the situation, register another nic and out him under that one. I wouldn't normally advocate that sort of thing but this might be an exception-- assuming the mods would be cool with it and your own nic can't be attached to the 'new' one by the crazy person. (I'm advocating the new nic solely as a way to preserve your personal safety).
Of course, an unknown member doing that sort of thing won't get the community support that you would, though.

Tough call. I'd definitely think about contacting the mods and admin with as much info as you have, citing examples of what he's up to. But of course, he might be buddies with one of the mods.

362 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:11:28pm

re: #349 zora

i

i've been to a couple myself. the first time i was about ten and was scared shitless.

Hope you are well tonight.. I might have gone over the line teasing the Christian's. My lawyer has prepared a Statement that said to anyone I offended I apologize...You know the whole boilerplate thing.

363 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:12:06pm

re: #321 Alouette

Who needs "death panels" when we already have "fat panels"?

And no age limits as to who goes before them, it seems:

Heavy infant in Grand Junction denied health insurance

364 palomino  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:12:52pm

re: #155 marjoriemoon

We have a Black president. This is how it started.

Now every racist and bigot in the country has a bandwagon to jump on. Is this where we want to go? Does it mean we'll never have another non-white male as President? A woman, an Asian, a Jew, an American Indian? They are trying to keep it from ever happening again. That's what this is all about.

I don't think you have to worry about a woman's chances being harmed by this. A lot of Dems and independents are right now lamenting the fact that they didn't just hold their noses and vote for Hillary. Watching her chew out Netanyahu while Obama and Biden seemingly watch helplessly just reinforces this.

365 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:12:55pm

Texastexbookfact fun:

the only universally accepted scientific discipline is cosmetology #Texastextbookfact

366 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:12:58pm

re: #347 lostlakehiker

The logic is warped, that's for sure. If you know how armed forces qualification scores, IQ test scores, SAT scores, and so forth, are distributed within each of the statistical categories that are kept, by "race", you know that averages scores within different groups are different.

But whether or not the fraction of really bright whites is different from the fraction of really bright blacks, that percentage is beside the point when it comes to individuals. Obama is a bright guy. And by their own account, these hyperventilaters on matters of race are aware that Asians do just fine, thank you, on tests of intelligence. Jews too. They should be aware that there have been very, very bright Hispanics---e.g. Capablanca, many times world chess champion. And though blacks haven't made the ranks of world chess champion, world go champion, Nobel prize in physics, Fields medal, or what have you, we don't pick presidents from that tier very often. Jefferson may have been an exception, and Lincoln, but then who?

There are black international grandmasters at chess. At a venture, none of this gang can match that. And when it comes to wisdom, our current black justice on the supreme court stands tall. So we should put aside race as a category, and take people one by one, in all their individual variety.

Tsk Tsk, you left out women :)

Hey, the American people voted in a Black president once, they WILL do it again or at least someone that doesn't fit the usual physical mold, despite what these folks do or say. So I believe anyway.

367 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:13:16pm

re: #343 Killgore Trout


[...]

The Federalist Papers by Alexander Hamilton (A Favorite of right wing terrorists) [...]

Erm, and also of quite a lot of schools' assigned reading lists, it being a seminal document in our nation's Founding and everything. Should I take down my American flag because the Klan also waves it?

368 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:13:27pm

no worries. i am well.

369 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:13:29pm

re: #362 HoosierHoops

Hope you are well tonight.. I might have gone over the line teasing the Christian's. My lawyer has prepared a Statement that said to anyone I offended I apologize...You know the whole boilerplate thing.

Rule of thumb

if you think you've gone over the line,. you have
if you KNOW you've gone over the line,, you've gone WAY over !!

370 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:13:30pm

RT @whisper1111 the louisiana purchase was made at walmart #Texastextbookfact

371 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:13:36pm

re: #359 LudwigVanQuixote

NO not at all... more like distorting what I say when losing an argument and trying to drum false sympathy is the standard MO around here for the wingnuts. God you guys cry like the worst sissies ever.

As to your MO, well you are a troll and always have been.

And no you are not a jerk Stevo, you are an utter asshole.

you don't impress me...I see you are expanding you name calling, including some new stuff....keep it up, you are always good for a few laughs

372 simoom  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:13:45pm

Only tangentially related, but some of the arguments in the quoted Spencer conversation reminded me of something I saw the other day. Yahoo news has a registered user commenting feature I'd never paid much attention to, but I when I noticed one article with thousands, I took the time to read some of them.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

It's an AP article about how minority births may be the majority of all births this year, and the comments posted are pretty awful. Worse still, if you sort the responses to display the highest rated first, you find it's mostly the bilge that wins out (some with 1000+ recommendations).

The highest rated comment has a Tea Party flag for an avatar and advocates:

How about we all answer "American" to the race question on the census form and put an end to racial discrimination by our government?
373 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:14:00pm

re: #337 HoosierHoops

I went to a pentecostal church once when I was young...
Everybody was talking in Tongues..
I'm sure they were talking about me..But I'm not sure

Speaking in tongues never happens in a synagogue.

If it did, the rabbi would stop the service and ask if there was a doctor.

Three people would get up.

When they found nothing physical wrong with him they would get the psychiatrist.

374 researchok  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:14:08pm

One helluva day on LGF.

375 Tigger2005  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:14:13pm

re: #242 LudwigVanQuixote

But it is so much more than just Limbaugh and it is so much more than just a few careless remarks.

Open talk of secession and Dixie flags are inherently racist. Any sensible black person sees a Dixie flag the way we see a swastika- and that is the correct view.

My dad is a decent person, but is in his late 80's and comes from another time. He also listens to Rush Limbaugh a lot.

A few years ago I was eating dinner with him at a buffet restaurant that attracts practically equal numbers of blacks, Hispanics, and whites. He decided to talk about the attempts to get some Southern states to get rid of the Dixie flag. "They're just honoring their soldiers," he said in their defense (and his family is Yankee).

I kept looking around hoping nobody was listening to him and silently begging him to talk about something else.

376 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:14:20pm

re: #362 HoosierHoops

no worries. i am well.

377 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:14:20pm

re: #350 NJDhockeyfan

That's cool as heck.

378 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:14:22pm

re: #349 zora

i

i've been to a couple myself. the first time i was about ten and was scared shitless.

That sounds like my mother's experience with Baptist tent revivals in Georgia in the 1930's. After a couple, she was scared completely out of religion.

379 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:15:22pm

The Texastan SBOE would not approve:

DC Promotes Female Condom

380 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:15:46pm

re: #360 Stanley Sea

No, not a blog fight. An intelligent, and safe way to handle.

Avanti - maybe call the SPLC? Hell, they might give advice over the phone?

has this guy broken a law?...like made threats?...just because avanti is uncomfortable with some racist doesn't automatically mean he needs to promote a confrontation

381 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:15:48pm

re: #363 publicityStunted

And no age limits as to who goes before them, it seems:

Heavy infant in Grand Junction denied health insurance

Ah yes. The much lauded and glorified insurance corporations at work once again.

Alex's pre-existing condition — "obesity" — makes him a financial risk. Health insurance reform measures are trying to do away with such denials that come from a process called "underwriting."

"If health care reform occurs, underwriting will go away. We do it because everybody else in the industry does it," said Dr. Doug Speedie, medical director at Rocky Mountain Health Plans, the company that turned down Alex.

382 srb1976  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:17:03pm

evening folks....

383 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:17:16pm

re: #334 avanti

If you don't see the issue, I'll try again. A neo-nazi is spreading his crap with being up front about his motives or background on a blog.
This guy is not a "casual racist", he's very active.

Ah well that's very different. If it's something that's really disturbing, I'd probably find another group. I'd want to get off that guys radar. I wouldn't tell the Mods anything. If they can't see, maybe a problem with them, too. There will be another battle to fight another day, ya know?

384 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:17:26pm

re: #379 freetoken

The Texastan SBOE would not approve:

DC Promotes Female Condom

Right after approving gay marriage, too.
See? Teh Culture is Decaying all Around Us Now!!11!

385 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:17:28pm

re: #350 NJDhockeyfan

Blood-selling Packers fan voted to team's fan Hall

Now that's IRONy!

386 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:17:36pm

re: #369 sattv4u2

Rule of thumb

if you think you've gone over the line,. you have
if you KNOW you've gone over the line,, you've gone WAY over !!

*wink*

387 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:17:38pm

re: #379 freetoken

That salon owner is a good man.

388 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:18:25pm

re: #384 iceweasel

Right after approving gay marriage, too.
See? Teh Culture is Decaying all Around Us Now!!11!

Quick! Call Focus on the Family at once! We must issue a Fatwa against this immediately!

389 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:18:30pm

re: #334 avanti

If you don't see the issue, I'll try again. A neo-nazi is spreading his crap with being up front about his motives or background on a blog.
This guy is not a "casual racist", he's very active.

Do you know and trust a goodly number of the other board members? Maybe you could email them privately and persuade them to cyber-shun the neo-nazi. The silent treatment.

390 palomino  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:18:39pm

re: #318 Alouette

Don't they know that Muslims fast for an entire month? During the daylight hours, they can stuff all they want once the sun goes down.

Jews have only 6 fast days a year, and only 2 of those are 24-hours.

It becomes a real problem for athletes during Ramadan. Hakeem Olajuwon used to have a hell of a time explaining to Rockets fans why he was losing wait at the beginning of each year.

391 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:18:48pm

re: #386 HoosierHoops

*wink*

Great ,, I have Walter offering me his web cam IP addy so I can see him naked, NOW I have Hoops WINKING at me!!!

NTTAWWT!!!

392 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:18:53pm

re: #384 iceweasel

Right after approving gay marriage, too.
See? Teh Culture is Decaying all Around Us Now!!11!

It started with pineapple on pizza.
/

393 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:19:19pm

re: #361 iceweasel

That's the problem in a nutshell, the guy is very popular in the hobby, and well liked and respected, and that's why he's dangerous IMHO.

The safest thing might be to do the sock puppet thing the next time he goes off racially, and just provide a link to his activities in Crosstar. Even a new poster with that sort of link would get the groups attention. Having said that, I feel a little odd about doing that. I'll try the push back to his comments first, and maybe he'll get the hint that I know his real motive.

394 Bagua  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:19:27pm

re: #344 albusteve

very nice...I just might have to expand my relationship with you

Beware deals with the devil...Evil Woman Blues


- Joe McCoy
395 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:20:21pm

I just ordered pizza for iceweasel in New York and was understood first time (used my American accent).

396 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:20:24pm

re: #383 marjoriemoon

Ah well that's very different. If it's something that's really disturbing, I'd probably find another group. I'd want to get off that guys radar. I wouldn't tell the Mods anything. If they can't see, maybe a problem with them, too. There will be another battle to fight another day, ya know?

good advice...call it the Irish Rose Rule

397 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:20:30pm

re: #391 sattv4u2

Great ,, I have Walter offering me his web cam IP addy so I can see him naked, NOW I have Hoops WINKING at me!!!

NTTAWWT!!!

I thought you wanted to see the dog.

398 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:20:36pm

re: #384 iceweasel

Yahoo!

399 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:21:05pm

re: #395 Jimmah

I just ordered pizza for iceweasel in New York and was understood first time (used my American accent).

you FAKE!...can you really do a NYC accent?

400 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:21:27pm

re: #395 Jimmah

yahoo!

401 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:21:41pm

re: #380 albusteve

has this guy broken a law?...like made threats?...just because avanti is uncomfortable with some racist doesn't automatically mean he needs to promote a confrontation

""THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew......"

402 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:21:48pm

Robert Stacy McCain is attacking me again tonight, for the 500th time, and pretending to be the heir to Hunter S. Thompson.

Thompson would have kicked that white supremacist turd to the curb.

403 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:21:51pm

re: #397 Walter L. Newton

I thought you wanted to see the dog.

That sorta looks like a bone in the dogs mouth!!!

404 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:22:09pm

re: #393 avanti

That's the problem in a nutshell, the guy is very popular in the hobby, and well liked and respected, and that's why he's dangerous IMHO.

The safest thing might be to do the sock puppet thing the next time he goes off racially, and just provide a link to his activities in Crosstar. Even a new poster with that sort of link would get the groups attention. Having said that, I feel a little odd about doing that. I'll try the push back to his comments first, and maybe he'll get the hint that I know his real motive.

If you do that, it won't be hard for him to figure out who the sockpuppet is. These lunatics make all kinds of shit up anyway.

If there's any possibility of danger to yourself, and IMO there is with these types, I say steer COMPLETELY clear of him under your avanti name there, register the sock puppet and bam.

405 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:22:15pm

re: #387 jaunte

That salon owner is a good man.

Agree. It's also pretty obvious, from an evolutionary standpoint. Women want to make themselves "prettier" (whatever that means...) for, among other reasons, to attract a mate. The owner is being honest with himself - his business is about (in part) helping his customers find sexual mates.

406 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:22:25pm

re: #393 avanti

That's the problem in a nutshell, the guy is very popular in the hobby, and well liked and respected, and that's why he's dangerous IMHO.

The safest thing might be to do the sock puppet thing the next time he goes off racially, and just provide a link to his activities in Crosstar. Even a new poster with that sort of link would get the groups attention. Having said that, I feel a little odd about doing that. I'll try the push back to his comments first, and maybe he'll get the hint that I know his real motive.

And why you want to challenge this goon?

407 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:22:40pm

re: #395 Jimmah

I just ordered pizza for iceweasel in New York and was understood first time (used my American accent).

Best wishes
I loved the story about you and Ice in a Taxi in New York..

408 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:22:42pm

I'm still laughing at the texastextbookfact site:

Grover Cleveland was the creator of Sesame Street

409 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:22:55pm

re: #401 avanti

""THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew..."

so just what do you think you can do?...you came to a blog for advice...call the FBI

410 Racer X  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:22:56pm

Why the GOP sucks:
The GOP has embraced the crazies on the far right side of the aisle. For the most part they refuse to accept the reality of evolution. Global warming is more about politics than about science. There are too many on the right who are hypocrites - especially when it comes to family values and gay rights.
They suck.

Why the Dems suck:
They often come across as elitists (do as I say, not as I do). They want to spend lots of money on social projects, yet when those projects don't work the only answer is 'we need more money'. Way too often money allocated for those social projects ends up in someone's pocket. They want bigger government, when in reality the government just does a horrible job at getting things done at a reasonable cost.
They suck.

IMHO.

411 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:22:59pm

re: #402 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain is attacking me again tonight, for the 500th time, and pretending to be the heir to Hunter S. Thompson.

Thompson would have kicked that white supremacist turd to the curb.

Or just shot him. Hunter liked really heavy hardware.

412 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:23:08pm

re: #402 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain is attacking me again tonight, for the 500th time, and pretending to be the heir to Hunter S. Thompson.

Thompson would have kicked that white supremacist turd to the curb.

He's a real piece of shit work.

413 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:23:23pm

re: #403 sattv4u2

That sorta looks like a bone in the dogs mouth!!!

Nope... not going there... no way... nope.

414 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:23:57pm

re: #413 Walter L. Newton

btw ,, thanks

415 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:24:07pm

re: #407 HoosierHoops

Best wishes
I loved the story about you and Ice in a Taxi in New York..

Heh. And he married me anyway!

My phone is busted, so I can't make calls! (broke it today).

In other news, I am pleased to announce that Jimmah will be here in ny with me next week!

416 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:24:09pm

re: #396 albusteve

good advice...call it the Irish Rose Rule

Let's assume the guy was posting here, would you suggest all the non racists leave rather then out the bastard ?

417 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:24:24pm

re: #406 marjoriemoon

And why you want to challenge this goon?

I'm not looking at it as challenge him, but rather out the mofo.

418 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:25:39pm

re: #416 avanti

Let's assume the guy was posting here, would you suggest all the non racists leave rather then out the bastard ?

Stinky would make an appearance, I'm sure.

419 Stanghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:25:47pm

re: #414 sattv4u2

btw ,, thanks

Did I miss something? Did you get a photo?

420 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:25:53pm

re: #334 avanti

Tough thing to deal with. I don't blame you for feeling you want to do something about it.
I find it hard to give specific advice on whether to contact the mods or not because I don't know the blog and don't know the mods. Be aware that you may run into mods that don't care or are actually 'sympathetic' which won't get you anywhere.

My one piece of advice is that if you do try to contact or do anything publically in a outing manner, is document, document, document. If the guy is subtle and I know EXACTLY the type because I've dealt with those myself then you run into the problem that many people just don't 'get' or 'see it' unless it's laid out for them point by point. You need to be able to show a pattern of what he is trying to do. Also be one hundred and ten percent sure about your background research on this guy. The last thing you want is to start getting I'm going to charge you with 'defamation' crap and not have really concrete stuff to back it up. These folks nearly always go for a 'you are defaming me line of fear to scare people off' from saying or doing anything. Just remember that it is not defamation if you are saying things that are true. Sounds obvious but in the thick of it they are very good and scuing people into thinking that just pointing out facts that he belongs to this group or that is sullying his name. Also make sure you have your arguments clear when they or he starts throwing out 'free speech, free speech' screams. There's a very good chance that could happen too. It's part of the MO.

421 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:25:59pm

re: #399 albusteve

you FAKE!...can you really do a NYC accent?

Heh. I probably sound like a Canadian who's spent some time in Mexico - but it certainly seems to make me a lot more understandable with you lot than I am speaking normally;-)

422 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:26:30pm

re: #419 Stanley Sea

Did I miss something? Did you get a photo?

Lets just say we're having cigarettes now!!
./

423 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:26:36pm

re: #409 albusteve

so just what do you think you can do?...you came to a blog for advice...call the FBI

For crying out loud, the FBI probably has folder a foot thick on the guy.

424 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:27:14pm

re: #367 The Sanity Inspector

Should I take down my American flag because the Klan also waves it?


That's up to you.

425 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:27:20pm

re: #416 avanti

Let's assume the guy was posting here, would you suggest all the non racists leave rather then out the bastard ?

but he isn't posting here...so out him if you think it will make a difference...I say doing that would play right into his hand...there are kooks everywhere and they love a fight

426 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:27:26pm

re: #395 Jimmah

I just ordered pizza for iceweasel in New York and was understood first time (used my American accent).

"American accent" covers a lot of territory here. Did you use an NY accent? Or a midwestern non-accent?

When I was a student a study group I was in spent a few days in New York. A few of the locals stopped to make merry over our southern accents, one time.

427 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:27:28pm

re: #421 Jimmah

Heh. I probably sound like a Canadian who's spent some time in Mexico - but it certainly seems to make me a lot more understandable with you lot than I am speaking normally;-)

Watch reruns of Matlock. Tell 'em yer from Georgia.

428 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:27:30pm

re: #412 Thanos

He's a real piece of shit work.

429 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:28:18pm

re: #417 Stanley Sea

I'm not looking at it as challenge him, but rather out the mofo.

he's outed himself...or it would not be a question

430 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:28:19pm

re: #416 avanti

I would suggest Charles use the bam stick. I think you should start with the mods, Avanti. I hope they care enough about it to watch for the pernicious attacks, that it's not just "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" racism. Yuch.

431 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:28:34pm

re: #410 Racer X

Why the GOP sucks:
The GOP has embraced the crazies on the far right side of the aisle. For the most part they refuse to accept the reality of evolution. Global warming is more about politics than about science. There are too many on the right who are hypocrites - especially when it comes to family values and gay rights.
They suck.

Why the Dems suck:
They often come across as elitists (do as I say, not as I do). They want to spend lots of money on social projects, yet when those projects don't work the only answer is 'we need more money'. Way too often money allocated for those social projects ends up in someone's pocket. They want bigger government, when in reality the government just does a horrible job at getting things done at a reasonable cost.
They suck.

IMHO.

The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected.
-- G. K. Chesterton, 1924

432 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:28:46pm

re: #426 The Sanity Inspector

"American accent" covers a lot of territory here. Did you use an NY accent? Or a midwestern non-accent?

When I was a student a study group I was in spent a few days in New York. A few of the locals stopped to make merry over our southern accents, one time.

My son moved to NY last summer after living in Russia for 10 years. His kids have already shed their Russian accents.

433 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:28:47pm

re: #417 Stanley Sea

I'm not looking at it as challenge him, but rather out the mofo.

I think you have to pick your battles and if he thinks this guy's connected, I'd find another battle. But that's me. I like the least amount of drama in my life.

434 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:29:14pm

re: #423 avanti

For crying out loud, the FBI probably has folder a foot thick on the guy.

well then...consider your contribution, like what can you add?

435 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:29:15pm

re: #395 Jimmah

I just ordered pizza for iceweasel in New York and was understood first time (used my American accent).

Good for you. I can fool Canadians for a few words but I don't have the guts to try to pass off my British accent on Londoners yet. I'm not sure I'll ever be ready for that.

436 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:29:39pm

re: #421 Jimmah

Nah we love it when you guys say "fook".

437 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:29:50pm

re: #402 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain is attacking me again tonight, for the 500th time, and pretending to be the heir to Hunter S. Thompson.

Thompson would have kicked that white supremacist turd to the curb.

He's delusional. Hunter S. Thompson hated Nixon, was last opposed to the War in Iraq. I'm pretty sure Thomson would have loathed the likes of a lowly blogger like RS McCain.

438 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:30:13pm

re: #436 LudwigVanQuixote

Nah we love it when you guys say "fook".

hee hee...Jimmah, more dialect posts!

439 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:30:47pm

re: #421 Jimmah

Heh. I probably sound like a Canadian who's spent some time in Mexico - but it certainly seems to make me a lot more understandable with you lot than I am speaking normally;-)

can you say taco? and make yourself understood?...if so you are an honorary New Mexican

440 blueraven  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:31:30pm

re: #380 albusteve

has this guy broken a law?...like made threats?...just because avanti is uncomfortable with some racist doesn't automatically mean he needs to promote a confrontation

Don't get so upset about it. Let it slide, everything will take care of itself. You will only make things worse. /

441 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:31:48pm

re: #435 Killgore Trout

Killgore's British accent....

442 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:32:51pm

re: #429 albusteve

he's outed himself...or it would not be a question

He has not "outed himself", he's being subtle in his posts. He starts with a post that is just a little over the line, waits for a cheer from a few posters and moves it up a notch.

443 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:32:54pm

re: #407 HoosierHoops

Best wishes
I loved the story about you and Ice in a Taxi in New York..

Cheers Hoops. For me, it was like a scene from a movie. Except in a movie you probably would have not gotten away with such blatant stereotypes as that cop and that taxi driver...lol

444 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:33:36pm

re: #441 Killgore Trout

That was painful to listen to. Still love him, the old lush.

445 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:33:54pm

re: #437 Gus 802

More on Thompson:

Thompson wrote passionately on behalf of African American rights and the African American Civil Rights Movement. He strongly criticised the dominance in American society of, what he called, "white power structures". He was a proponent of the right to bear arms and privacy rights. A member of the National Rifle Association, Thompson was also co-creator of "The Fourth Amendment Foundation", an organization to assist victims in defending themselves against unwarranted search and seizure.

Part of his work with The Fourth Amendment Foundation centered around support of Lisl Auman, a Colorado woman who was sentenced for life in 1997 under felony murder charges for the death of police officer Bruce VanderJagt, despite contradictory statements and dubious evidence. Thompson organized rallies, provided legal support, and co-wrote an article in the June 2004 issue of Vanity Fair, outlining the case. The Colorado Supreme Court eventually overturned Auman's sentence in March 2005, shortly after Thompson's death, and Auman is now free. Auman's supporters claim Thompson's support and publicity resulted in the successful appeal.

SNIP

Thompson was also an ardent supporter of drug legalization and became known for his less-than-shy accounts of his own drug usage. He was an early supporter of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws and served on the group's advisory board for over 30 years until his death.[47] He told an interviewer in 1997 that drugs should be legalized "Across the board. It might be a little rough on some people for a while, but I think it's the only way to deal with drugs. Look at Prohibition: all it did was make a lot of criminals rich."

After the September 11, 2001 attacks, Thompson voiced skepticism regarding the official story on who was responsible for the attacks. He suggested to several interviewers that it may have been conducted by the U.S. Government or with the government's assistance. In 2002, Thompson told a radio show host "You sort of wonder when something like that happens, well, who stands to benefit? Who had the opportunity and the motive? You just kind of look at these basic things [...] I saw that the US government was going to benefit, and the White House people, the Republican administration to take the mind of the public off the crashing economy. [...] And I have spent enough time on the inside of, well in the White House and you know, campaigns and I've known enough people who do these things, think this way, to know that the public version of the news or whatever event, is never really what happened."

In 2004 Thompson, regarding politics, wrote: "Nixon was a professional politician, and I despised everything he stood for — but if he were running for president this year against the evil Bush–Cheney gang, I would happily vote for him."

So he was almost a truther it seems. About the only thing in common Thompson had with wingnuts was that he was a gun nut.

446 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:33:58pm

re: #441 Killgore Trout

Mary Poppins - isn't that one of those horribly long movies that seems to go on forever? I seem to remember never being able to sit through the whole thing.

447 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:34:12pm

re: #440 blueraven

Don't get so upset about it. Let it slide, everything will take care of itself. You will only make things worse. /

so your conclusion is what?....confront the guy over the internet?...once, or a running fight?...what's your strategy for dealing with net wackos?

448 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:35:10pm

re: #426 The Sanity Inspector

I used - cough - my interpretation of a NYC accent...lol

449 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:35:19pm

re: #404 iceweasel

If you do that, it won't be hard for him to figure out who the sockpuppet is. These lunatics make all kinds of shit up anyway.

If there's any possibility of danger to yourself, and IMO there is with these types, I say steer COMPLETELY clear of him under your avanti name there, register the sock puppet and bam.

Yes I agree with this.

Another option which does take a whole lot more work and way more sneaky but I have seen it done quite effectively is to set up another blog entirely to talk about what's going on at that forum and document some of the crap you see. Make sure that in setting up the blog you are using info that is hard to track, new email, not your real name in registration etc etc. Ask 'why is this forum allowing this guy XXX to post XXXX?' Post all the info you have about this group etc etc and examples of the racist stuff.
Then you can drop a few links in the forum in question with a sock. Just make sure it's not from your regular ip address. This takes the onus of you the forum poster as the 'outing' is a result of some annon on the internet who was just reading the forum.

450 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:35:51pm

re: #442 avanti

He has not "outed himself", he's being subtle in his posts. He starts with a post that is just a little over the line, waits for a cheer from a few posters and moves it up a notch.

I consider that outed...give yourself some credit, if you can see it, certainly others can

451 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:36:41pm

re: #446 freetoken

Mary Poppins - isn't that one of those horribly long movies that seems to go on forever? I seem to remember never being able to sit through the whole thing.

some window pane helps get through it

452 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:36:45pm

re: #443 Jimmah

Cheers Hoops. For me, it was like a scene from a movie. Except in a movie you probably would have not gotten away with such blatant stereotypes as that cop and that taxi driver...lol

Hopefully this summer we will met up in NY for a weekend.. Burn those miles up Bro is want I say...
Have a great time this next week...Best wishes

453 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:36:46pm

Ahem, just let me state loudly,clearly, and for the record that there is no, absolutely no, racism within the Republican party. Why, we even have a negro African American as our party chairman!

///

454 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:37:16pm

re: #446 freetoken

Mary Poppins - isn't that one of those horribly long movies that seems to go on forever? I seem to remember never being able to sit through the whole thing.

Here's a short, condensed version ;-)

455 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:37:45pm

re: #451 albusteve

I think the movie had a song about that.

456 Bagua  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:38:20pm

Truck Driver


- Scott H. Biram


I’ve been to Detroit, LA, New York, Mississipi-A, Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam, East Texas and Vietnam. Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy on a weary soul.

457 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:38:25pm

re: #455 jaunte

I think the movie had a song about that.

Innagoddadivita?
just a guess

458 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:38:50pm

re: #453 ausador

Ahem, just let me state loudly,clearly, and for the record that there is no, absolutely no, racism within the Republican party. Why, we even have a negro African American as our party chairman!

///

True, but he ain't down with the struggle.
/Reverend Al.

459 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:39:15pm

I'm not done with the whole creationism/homeschooling issue, btw. I'm feeling internally driven to dig some more and write some. There is an especially dense, jungly quality to this issue that ties it with so many others, probably because the cognitive dissonance one needs (when subjected to creationism in this modern world) to live is parallel to that in dealing with the other issues (racism, government, war, etc.)

460 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:39:30pm

re: #457 albusteve

Innagoddadivita?
just a guess

Very like it

461 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:40:44pm

re: #460 jaunte

Very like it

[Video]

spoonfull, spoonfull
spoon full
JB

462 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:40:55pm

re: #437 Gus 802

He's delusional. Hunter S. Thompson hated Nixon, was last opposed to the War in Iraq. I'm pretty sure Thomson would have loathed the likes of a lowly blogger like RS McCain.

That would have made an entertaining debate. HST could out-think and out-write Robert Racism McStain half-asleep after a week-long bender with one hand tied behind his back.

463 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:41:12pm

re: #443 Jimmah

Cheers Hoops. For me, it was like a scene from a movie. Except in a movie you probably would have not gotten away with such blatant stereotypes as that cop and that taxi driver...lol

Heh. The taxi story.

And more.

464 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:41:13pm

re: #450 albusteve

I consider that outed...give yourself some credit, if you can see it, certainly others can

You made my point, some conservatives listen to subtle racists and would be appalled to find more about their real agenda. That's why this thread reminded me of this jerk.

465 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:41:34pm

re: #454 Jimmah

That's very good.

466 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:41:40pm

re: #437 Gus 802

He's delusional. Hunter S. Thompson hated Nixon, was last opposed to the War in Iraq. I'm pretty sure Thomson would have loathed the likes of a lowly blogger like RS McCain.

Speaking of which, I want to read Transmetropolitan.

467 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:41:54pm

re: #421 Jimmah

Heh. I probably sound like a Canadian who's spent some time in Mexico - but it certainly seems to make me a lot more understandable with you lot than I am speaking normally;-)

Oh, a New York accent isn't hard. Just imagine the sound of a goose being assaulted with a bicycle horn.

/ channeling--and cleaning up--P. J. O'Rourke

468 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:42:53pm

re: #449 Jadespring

I'd support that strategy as well. Avanti, think about it!

469 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:43:11pm

re: #401 avanti

""THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew..."

A neighbor and I were speaking and she was telling me about shopping at the flea market, "I really Jew'd em down!" I looked at her, "You know I'm Jewish, right? Why did you say that?" She replied she didn't mean anything by it, she just got a good deal. I told her never to say it again and it's an insult.

We were still "neighborly" to each other (she moved). I liked her daughter, about 10 at the time. She'd bring her friends into the yard and we'd pick flowers for their beany babies. Maybe she'll remember me as that nice Jewish lady one day instead of something else.

There's a little, tiny battle I fought and won. I think. I'm not sure. I'll consider it victory.

Confronting neo-Nazis are your own is pretty silly IMO.

470 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:43:59pm

re: #453 ausador

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

471 blueraven  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:44:02pm

re: #447 albusteve

so your conclusion is what?...confront the guy over the internet?...once, or a running fight?...what's your strategy for dealing with net wackos?

Well, I guess I would have to think on that a bit. That is what I usually do, instead of dismissing things out of hand. If I felt strongly enough about something, I would find a way.

472 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:44:07pm

re: #462 Pawn of the Oppressor

That would have made an entertaining debate. HST could out-think and out-write Robert Racism McStain half-asleep after a week-long bender with one hand tied behind his back.

Seriously. And he was so eccentric one could almost respect him just for that. He was also an American icon. How a lowlife blogger like RS McCain that gets 8 comments for his blogs can compare himself to Thompson is mind boggling. He fits in well with the other Moonie like nutcases over at the Washington Slimes.

473 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:44:37pm

re: #450 albusteve

if i may add my two cents, i agree with albusteve completely. out him further to what end. you may be underestimating the people on your blog as to whether they have detected his bigotry. does he add anything of substance to the topic of the blog? that may be all they care about. if he is really a threat and has an fbi file as some suggest, let them take care of it. enjoy your blog, insert your beliefs if it is warranted. fuck this guy.

474 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:45:02pm

re: #459 freetoken

I'm having similar feelings. Fact checking used to be a challenge with new thing to learn but the new American right has transformed the exercise into an impenetrable wall of intentional ignorance. There's not much point in pursuing it, it's too easy and makes no difference.

475 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:45:26pm

re: #442 avanti

He has not "outed himself", he's being subtle in his posts. He starts with a post that is just a little over the line, waits for a cheer from a few posters and moves it up a notch.

Well there's your problem. He's got company.

I'd find the Car Aficionado Non-Racist Club, tout suite!

476 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:46:24pm

re: #435 Killgore Trout

Good for you. I can fool Canadians for a few words but I don't have the guts to try to pass off my British accent on Londoners yet. I'm not sure I'll ever be ready for that.

Our teacher-chaperone on our trip to London had this verbatim exchange with the cockney ticket-taker on a city bus:

"...and what number bus do we take to get there?"
" Ite."
"...pardon me?"
"Ite."
"...???..."
"As in, between seven and nine."

477 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:47:01pm

re: #474 Killgore Trout

I'm having similar feelings. Fact checking used to be a challenge with new thing to learn but the new American right has transformed the exercise into an impenetrable wall of intentional ignorance. There's not much point in pursuing it, it's too easy and makes no difference.

think about your grapes...be the grape

478 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:47:06pm

re: #468 iceweasel

I'd support that strategy as well. Avanti, think about it!

Lots of good ideas, I'll ponder them all. I'm just uncomfortable with undercover skin heads in a great hobby.

479 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:48:32pm

racists have hobbies.

480 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:48:37pm

re: #478 avanti

Sorry, Avanti.

481 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:49:15pm

re: #478 avanti

it's them, not the hobby... carry on.

482 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:49:20pm

re: #479 zora

racists have hobbies.

Stamp collecting? ya think? lol

483 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:49:37pm

re: #478 avanti

Lots of good ideas, I'll ponder them all. I'm just uncomfortable with undercover skin heads in a great hobby.

I'm a Civil War buff. I used to post on the same Usenet forum where Stacy McCain made his grotesque racist comments. Oddly enough, he was only the 2nd or 3rd most obnoxious asshole on that forum.

484 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:49:51pm

re: #459 freetoken

I'm not done with the whole creationism/homeschooling issue, btw. I'm feeling internally driven to dig some more and write some. There is an especially dense, jungly quality to this issue that ties it with so many others, probably because the cognitive dissonance one needs (when subjected to creationism in this modern world) to live is parallel to that in dealing with the other issues (racism, government, war, etc.)

You might find these links useful for research:
[Link: www.thsc.org...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

485 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:49:56pm

re: #482 marjoriemoon

Stamp collecting? ya think? lol

Lamp shade making.

486 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:50:36pm

re: #485 Alouette

You aren't from Plainfield are you?

/Ed Gein off

487 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:50:42pm

re: #402 Charles

Robert Stacy McCain is attacking me again tonight, for the 500th time, and pretending to be the heir to Hunter S. Thompson.

Thompson would have kicked that white supremacist turd to the curb.

Well to give credit where it is due we probably should say that if Hunter S. Thompson had been a semi-literate with racist views and an only mediocre I.Q. and was also afflicted with a permanently juvenile temperament then he would probably have been just like Stacy McCain.

/of course since none of that is true McCain is just suffering from delusions of grandeur.

488 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:51:15pm

re: #483 Alouette

I'm a Civil War buff. I used to post on the same Usenet forum where Stacy McCain made his grotesque racist comments. Oddly enough, he was only the 2nd or 3rd most obnoxious asshole on that forum.

ever see some of the battle field parks?...I love that stuff...I like history and old American leftovers

489 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:51:58pm

re: #476 The Sanity Inspector

My main goal is to say "no" like a Londoner. If you ask "does this bus go to King's Cross'? or "can I have my crumpets with tomaaato ketchup and peanut butter?" they'll give you the same answer: They cock their head to one side and with a look of contempt, pity, disdain and sympathy they'll say "no" but with extra syllables "Nooooaaahaaaaaa" in a regretful yet gleeful tone. I want to do that.

490 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:52:24pm

re: #488 albusteve

ever see some of the battle field parks?...I love that stuff...I like history and old American leftovers

I live in Michigan, no Civil War battlefields around here.

My son lives in Alabama, maybe he can recommend some tours the next time I visit.

491 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:52:27pm

re: #477 albusteve

think about your grapes...be the grape

I am the grape. No doubt about it.

492 zora  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:52:55pm

one of my favorites as a kid was the battlefield at fort lee, va.

493 darthstar  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:53:03pm

Just got home from Shutter Island (the movie, no, I wasn't at a CPAC post conference)...meh. Wait for it to come out on network TV with commercial interruptions.

494 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:53:14pm

re: #476 The Sanity Inspector

Our teacher-chaperone on our trip to London had this verbatim exchange with the cockney ticket-taker on a city bus:

"...and what number bus do we take to get there?"
" Ite."
"...pardon me?"
"Ite."
"...???..."
"As in, between seven and nine."

495 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:53:37pm

re: #489 Killgore Trout

My main goal is to say "no" like a Londoner. If you ask "does this bus go to King's Cross'? or "can I have my crumpets with tomaaato ketchup and peanut butter?" they'll give you the same answer: They cock their head to one side and with a look of contempt, pity, disdain and sympathy they'll say "no" but with extra syllables "Noooaaahaaa" in a regretful yet gleeful tone. I want to do that.

There's also that knack of saying "I'm sorry" or "Pardon" in such a way that it's far, far more offensive than #$%^@! and conveys the same meaning.

I like that.

496 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:54:00pm

I am the walrus....

/shut the fuck up Donnie

497 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:54:20pm

re: #491 Killgore Trout

I am the grape. No doubt about it.

You turn into a raisin as you get older. If you go crazy, well then you become a craisin®.

498 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:55:20pm

re: #488 albusteve

ever see some of the battle field parks?...I love that stuff...I like history and old American leftovers

My son is up in Virginia right now on a school trip in and around Williamsburg. High School sophomores and juniors. They left yesterday and will be there till next Friday

499 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:55:40pm

re: #490 Alouette

I live in Michigan, no Civil War battlefields around here.

My son lives in Alabama, maybe he can recommend some tours the next time I visit.

drive over to Gettysburg, see the park...easy weekend..awesome place...btw I'm a Kalamazactian...WMU Bronco grad

500 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:56:13pm

re: #495 iceweasel

I like young and old calling each other luv'.

501 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:56:15pm

re: #474 Killgore Trout

Well, on fact checking the self proclaimed "right": It's becoming more evident to me that the online presence, the right-o-sphere, is simply becoming impervious to accepting data. Note PJM's increased obsession with anti-AGW-science articles, such as Bill Whittle's vid of the Lord High Denier himself, followed by another vid on PJTV by Chris Horner, etc. Instaputz pimpls PJM, which in turn pimp Instaputz, both pimp HumanEvents/Malkin/Beck, etc. Outside data streams are just being cut off.

That is why I find the subject of this thread so telling. If NRO refuses to address the increasingly obvious racism of Derbyshire then I conclude that the "conservative" movement has just collapsed, intellectually, and is incapable of fighting any honest intellectual battles.

502 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:57:49pm

re: #499 albusteve

drive over to Gettysburg, see the park...easy weekend..awesome place...btw I'm a Kalamazactian...WMU Bronco grad

I can't do long drives any more. We used to drive to New York and Philadelphia and back all the time, not anymore. A drive to Toronto (where another son lives) is about all we can handle now.

503 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:57:57pm

re: #491 Killgore Trout

I am the grape. No doubt about it.

OK. (steps on Killgore as one would a wine grape)

/kidding

504 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:58:21pm

Gyp is another one. I was gypped. Not nice for Gypsies. Jerry-rigged. Not nice for germans. Indian-giver.... Welsh rabbit...no rabbit in it/politically correct is "rare"-bit. Oddly "fairy" (farie) was the polite expression for the gay, but was used too often."Negro" used to be polite and "black" the more vulgar.
Language fascinates me.

505 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:58:36pm

I just set the clock ahead for DST but I'm not sleepy.

506 simoom  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:58:36pm

re: #343 Killgore Trout

I know this gets tiresome: Hot Air sez...
“Thousands” rally at Minnesota capital to “Kill the Bill”

A selection of signs from the event:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

When government declares
war on its citizens the citizens must declare war
on their immoral, corrupt, MARXIST government.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Abort heathcare
Abort Obama
Save Our Country

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

God is a
rightwing Extremist
then so
am I!

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Kill the Bill
Amy-n-Al
Arrest
Nancy Pelosi

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Holy Father,
Please be merciful.
Stop ObamaCare

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

ObamaCare:
Facism in a white smock

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Health Care Poison
(disturbing green tinged image of Obama with tongue distended)
ObamaCare

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Marx
Lenin
Stalin

Obama
Pelosi
Reid

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Obama
LIES
Babies
DIE!
507 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:59:21pm

re: #498 sattv4u2

My son is up in Virginia right now on a school trip in and around Williamsburg. High School sophomores and juniors. They left yesterday and will be there till next Friday

Williamsburg!
2 pts

I played G Washington at the courthouse one time...I had to prosecute some guy that let his pigs run wild...it was hysterical and it went on and on...my kids thought I was the bomb...what a great place

508 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:59:22pm

re: #489 Killgore Trout

as a londoner i advise you to say "nah"

509 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:59:39pm

re: #495 iceweasel

There's also that knack of saying "I'm sorry" or "Pardon" in such a way that it's far, far more offensive than #$%^@! and conveys the same meaning.

I like that.

Yes...lol. "I'm sorry" here has two possible meanings:

1) I'm Sorry

2)) How dare you, you contemptible piece of scum.

510 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 8:59:57pm

re: #507 albusteve

Williamsburg!
2 pts

I played G Washington at the courthouse one time...I had to prosecute some guy that let his pigs run wild...it was hysterical and it went on and on...my kids thought I was the bomb...what a great place

I've been to the other Williamsburg, the one in Brooklyn.

511 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:00:27pm

re: #495 iceweasel

There's also that knack of saying "I'm sorry" or "Pardon" in such a way that it's far, far more offensive than #$%^@! and conveys the same meaning.

I like that.

The English have an extraordinary ability for flying into a great calm.
-- Alexander Woollcott

512 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:00:27pm

re: #502 Alouette

I can't do long drives any more. We used to drive to New York and Philadelphia and back all the time, not anymore. A drive to Toronto (where another son lives) is about all we can handle now.

sorry to know hat...driving is what I do for a living...travel is my whole gig

513 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:01:29pm

re: #501 freetoken

They actually think that they are "using" the crazies to beat Obama into the ground and that they will walk away clean. Of course, they also thought the same thing about "using" the religious right and just look where that has gotten us...

514 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:01:35pm

re: #469 marjoriemoon

A neighbor and I were speaking and she was telling me about shopping at the flea market, "I really Jew'd em down!" I looked at her, "You know I'm Jewish, right? Why did you say that?" She replied she didn't mean anything by it, she just got a good deal. I told her never to say it again and it's an insult.


Gyp is another one. I was gypped. Not nice for Gypsies. Jerry-rigged. Not nice for germans. Indian-giver... Welsh rabbit...no rabbit in it/politically correct is "rare"-bit. Oddly "fairy" (farie) was the polite expression for the gay, but was used too often."Negro" used to be polite and "black" the more vulgar.
Language fascinates me.

515 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:01:44pm

re: #447 albusteve

so your conclusion is what?...confront the guy over the internet?...once, or a running fight?...what's your strategy for dealing with net wackos?

It's safe and easy to tell racists to fuck off on an anonymous net site, so why not do so straight out?

516 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:01:48pm

re: #512 albusteve

sorry to know hat...driving is what I do for a living...travel is my whole gig

I like to travel, but the airline experience utterly sucks.

517 simoom  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:01:53pm

re: #506 simoom

Since this was a Minnesota rally "Amy-n-Al" in that second sign refers to Sen. Amy Klobuchar and Sen. Al Franken.

518 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:01:53pm

re: #501 freetoken

Well, on fact checking the self proclaimed "right": It's becoming more evident to me that the online presence, the right-o-sphere, is simply becoming impervious to accepting data. Note PJM's increased obsession with anti-AGW-science articles, such as Bill Whittle's vid of the Lord High Denier himself, followed by another vid on PJTV by Chris Horner, etc. Instaputz pimpls PJM, which in turn pimp Instaputz, both pimp HumanEvents/Malkin/Beck, etc. Outside data streams are just being cut off.

That is why I find the subject of this thread so telling. If NRO refuses to address the increasingly obvious racism of Derbyshire then I conclude that the "conservative" movement has just collapsed, intellectually, and is incapable of fighting any honest intellectual battles.

That's some list. Regarding outside data streams watned to add, as you know, they're already rejecting NASA, NOAA, and other government science bodies. National Science Foundation has also been rejected by the far right. They also reject all mass media news outlets save Fox News. After years of hammering by David Horowitz, academia is also blocked or looked at with suspicion by these people.

519 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:02:48pm

re: #505 Alouette

I just set the clock ahead for DST but I'm not sleepy.

Just wait til waking up time tomorrow. :/

520 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:03:31pm

re: #515 Spare O'Lake

It's safe and easy to tell racists to fuck off on an anonymous net site, so why not do so straight out?

dunno, ask avanti...it's his mission

521 darthstar  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:04:03pm

re: #506 simoom

Who is Tom Peters, and why did he steal someone's Juicy Fruit?

522 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:04:16pm

re: #506 simoom

Check out the sign on the right: No to Healtcare.

Missing the second "h."

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

523 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:04:34pm

re: #514 swamprat

Gyp is another one. I was gypped. Not nice for Gypsies. Jerry-rigged. Not nice for germans. Indian-giver... Welsh rabbit...no rabbit in it/politically correct is "rare"-bit. Oddly "fairy" (farie) was the polite expression for the gay, but was used too often."Negro" used to be polite and "black" the more vulgar.
Language fascinates me.

I thought "Jerry-rigged" was actually something of a compliment to their ingenuity. Like "Jerrycans", out of admiration for the superiority of their portable gas and water containers.

524 wee fury  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:04:46pm

re: #343 Killgore Trout
Star/Trib article

525 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:05:25pm
526 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:06:10pm

re: #523 The Sanity Inspector

Slur from WWII, changed to juryrigged.

527 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:06:26pm

re: #523 The Sanity Inspector

I thought "Jerry-rigged" was actually something of a compliment to their ingenuity. Like "Jerrycans", out of admiration for the superiority of their portable gas and water containers.

That's what I thought too.

528 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:06:51pm

re: #514 swamprat

And speaking of weird racist moments, there is actually a scooter sold around here called...

529 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:06:55pm

I sure hope the health care bill... I am dying to find out what's in the bill.....

/

530 simoom  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:06:57pm

re: #521 darthstar

Who is Tom Peters, and why did he steal someone's Juicy Fruit?

Closeup of the Juicy Fruit and Oompa-Loompa signs:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I'm guessing counter protesters mocking / parodying the main group? :P

531 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:07:12pm

re: #529 WindHorse

passes.... oops

532 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:07:29pm

re: #525 Gus 802

wtf?

533 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:08:07pm

re: #508 wozzablog

as a londoner i advise you to say "nah"

Don't say "nah", say Tah"!

534 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:08:38pm

re: #532 Killgore Trout

wtf?

I'm stumped. Counter protest of sorts?

535 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:08:39pm

re: #514 swamprat

Gyp is another one. I was gypped. Not nice for Gypsies. Jerry-rigged. Not nice for germans. Indian-giver... Welsh rabbit...no rabbit in it/politically correct is "rare"-bit. Oddly "fairy" (farie) was the polite expression for the gay, but was used too often."Negro" used to be polite and "black" the more vulgar.
Language fascinates me.

I can honestly say, that I never met a gypsy. I don't think. Although I have this fantasy that maybe I have gypsy blood. My dad got his mom's family back to Hungary in 1776.

I've been somewhat surprised during my life how much "Jew ya down" is acceptable speech.

536 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:08:44pm

re: #519 The Sanity Inspector

Just wait til waking up time tomorrow. :/

It's Sunday, I can sleep late.

537 lostlakehiker  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:09:10pm

re: #381 Gus 802

Insurance is a bet. The insurer bets you won't get sick. You bet you will. The insurer will lose money if he plays this betting game badly. Then he'll go under.

Insurers have tables of odds, just like with horse racing or any other gamble. They have learned that the exceptionally large or small are a bad bet. The baby may well have some sort of major health issue that is driving this growth and will in due course cause serious health problems. Or not, but they do have their tables. They're not in the business of selling coverage that they know, ahead of time, is likely to cost them a lot more in benefits than the premiums they stand to collect.

The rational course for the family is to just go without insurance, and if the company is wrong about this bet, they'll simply have saved themselves some premiums. If the insurance company is right, then they have no grounds for complaint against the insurance company, which is not a charity. They can then appeal to real charities for aid, and one would hope it would be forthcoming. Their situation is a perfect fit for charity, because there's no issue of moral hazard here.

Capitalism is very good at what it does. Charity is not one of its talents. It can't be, when you think about it. Charity has its place in the world. It's indispensable. Government cannot take the place of charity: consider the folly of government flood insurance, which has become the means by which the rich build beach houses on hurricane prone gulf coast frontage, and rebuild, and rebuild, each on the taxpayer's dime. That, in the name of charity.

Capitalism cannot do what is properly the work of charity. This situation makes that clear. And regulation cannot do it either. If the State steps in and rules that no child may be excluded from coverage, then parents with healthy children will wait until the hour of need to buy "insurance", and with no solid premium base of healthy but cautious insurance customers to offset the losses the company takes on sick people, the company will go under.

538 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:09:19pm

re: #526 swamprat

Slur from WWII, changed to juryrigged.

it's just a nickname...sometimes it goes too far...is Yank as slur?...I have friends down on the Gulf that would be insulted if you denied they were Rednecks...and jolly good people

539 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:09:31pm

re: #532 Killgore Trout

That satire is murky.

540 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:09:33pm
541 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:09:39pm

re: #530 simoom

Closeup of the Juicy Fruit and Oompa-Loompa signs:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I'm guessing counter protesters mocking / parodying the main group? :P

Yep. Looks like a couple of Joe College wise-acres.

542 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:10:14pm

Defending Dan Riehl:

[Link: tabithahale.com...]

Describes herself as a "Christian," but sees nothing wrong with Riehl's hateful rant.

Linked to by Robert Stacy McCain, a white supremacist.

The right wing blogosphere is so far off the rails, it's insane.

543 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:10:17pm

re: #535 marjoriemoon

I have used it. I have offended. I have learned.

544 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:10:40pm

re: #526 swamprat

Slur from WWII, changed to juryrigged.

I think they're separate but related terms. Jury-rigging started as a nautical term (if wikipedia is right)

Jury rigging refers to makeshift repairs or temporary contrivances, made with only the tools and materials that happen to be on hand. Originally a nautical term, on sailing ships a jury rig is a replacement mast and yards improvised in case of damage or loss of the original mast.

Similar phrases

* The phrase "jerry-built" has a separate origin and implies shoddy workmanship not necessarily of a temporary nature.[6][7]
* "Jiggered" is derived from "jerry-rigged". Although this has come into more common usage, it is still a pejorative term used to denote a poor quality short-lasting fix.
* The folk etymology is that "Jerry-rigged" was employed by World War II British troops to refer to the German use of scavenged parts to keep vehicles and weapons functional, from the use of "Jerry" as a pejorative term for German soldiers.
* To "MacGyver" something is to rig up something in a hurry to make an item work, from the U.S. television show of the same name and its title character, who would often use such homemade rigs.

545 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:10:56pm

re: #534 Gus 802

I'm stumped. Counter protest of sorts?

racists, obviously...the sign with the letters Obama proves it

546 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:11:40pm

re: #534 Gus 802

I'm stumped. Counter protest of sorts?

Looks like some college in-joke.

547 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:11:54pm

re: #537 lostlakehiker

I don't buy it. It's done all over the world. There's no excuse and I am not interested in the defense of insurance company snakes.

548 wee fury  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:12:04pm

Petters has been dubbed as the biggest swindler in US history (in Minnesota). His trial was followed closely . . . in jail now.

549 darthstar  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:12:16pm

re: #530 simoom

Closeup of the Juicy Fruit and Oompa-Loompa signs:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I'm guessing counter protesters mocking / parodying the main group? :P

I figured as much...good for them!

550 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:12:45pm

re: #530 simoom

Closeup of the Juicy Fruit and Oompa-Loompa signs:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I'm guessing counter protesters mocking / parodying the main group? :P

But DADDY I WANT AN OOMPA LOOMPA and I WANT IT NOW!!!eleventy!!11

///Veruca Salt

551 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:13:14pm

re: #539 jaunte

That satire is murky.

Too clever for its own good.

552 avanti  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:13:17pm

re: #523 The Sanity Inspector

I thought "Jerry-rigged" was actually something of a compliment to their ingenuity. Like "Jerrycans", out of admiration for the superiority of their portable gas and water containers.

"Jury rigging refers to makeshift repairs or temporary contrivances, made with only the tools and materials that happen to be on hand. Originally a nautical term, on sailing ships a jury rig is a replacement mast and yards improvised in case of damage or loss of the original mast."

553 Bagua  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:13:20pm

Woke up this morning... and got myself a gun.


- RLB
555 palomino  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:13:59pm

re: #540 Gus 802

Notice the ethnic diversity in these photos? Me neither.

Doesn't make the movement racist necessarily by any stretch. But it does make it a long term demographic loser.

556 wee fury  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:14:03pm

re: #530 simoom

Closeup of the Juicy Fruit and Oompa-Loompa signs:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I'm guessing counter protesters mocking / parodying the main group? :P

See my #548 -- Petters stole money from innocent people -- so the sign guy is saying that Petters even stole his gum. Maybe.

557 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:14:28pm

re: #544 iceweasel

Thanks for the explanation, ice.

558 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:15:05pm

re: #555 palomino

Notice the ethnic diversity in these photos? Me neither.

Doesn't make the movement racist necessarily by any stretch. But it does make it a long term demographic loser.

Yeah, looks like they were handing out bottle of vinegar as a beverage.

559 darthstar  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:15:09pm

re: #554 Gus 802

Tea Party sign calls for declaring war on the government, if needed

A "Marist" government, whatever the hell that is. Someone was kind enough to go put a small 'x' in the sign but the damage was already done. You can't be against something you can't even spell.

560 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:15:22pm

re: #536 Alouette

It's Sunday, I can sleep late.

Lucky you. I've gotta go to church & then work.

561 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:15:43pm

re: #518 Gus 802

Yes, and when the various National Academies of Sciences of the various nations that are doing the nth check of the IPCC and comes back with the conclusion that the basic science is sound, even if the process is not 100% perfect and allows in a small percentage of un-peer-reviewed pieces of information, the right-o-sphere will just reject the result.

It is very, very similar to dealing with creationists. If you are one of those dreaded materialists then simply your data won't matter.

Cognitive-dissonance, if indeed it is a real human phenomenon (and not just a catchy phrase) exists because it is somehow beneficial to the species. Fighting it then would probably be a waste of time.

We have to find a way around it.

562 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:16:09pm

re: #559 darthstar

A "Marist" government, whatever the hell that is. Someone was kind enough to go put a small 'x' in the sign but the damage was already done. You can't be against something you can't even spell.

Well, since they're protesting against health care reform I assume he's really a billionaire that went to the finest private schools as a youth.

/

563 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:16:25pm

re: #557 Dark_Falcon

Thanks for the explanation, ice.

I'd looked it up myself a couple of months ago-- haven't fact checked it or anything. Looks like a bunch of separate terms that evolved-- I just like knowing that sort of thing about language. Interesting stuff. It doesn't always proceed linearly.

564 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:16:33pm

re: #537 lostlakehiker

Getting decent healthcare shouldn't be connected with the idea that it has anything to do with giving 'charity'.

Personally I find that connection morally disgusting.

565 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:16:45pm

re: #543 swamprat

I have used it. I have offended. I have learned.

Upding for you then!

566 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:17:36pm

re: #565 marjoriemoon
Thanks.

567 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:17:43pm

re: #561 freetoken

Yes, and when the various National Academies of Sciences of the various nations that are doing the nth check of the IPCC and comes back with the conclusion that the basic science is sound, even if the process is not 100% perfect and allows in a small percentage of un-peer-reviewed pieces of information, the right-o-sphere will just reject the result.

It is very, very similar to dealing with creationists. If you are one of those dreaded materialists then simply your data won't matter.

Cognitive-dissonance, if indeed it is a real human phenomenon (and not just a catchy phrase) exists because it is somehow beneficial to the species. Fighting it then would probably be a waste of time.

We have to find a way around it.

I've explained that before...AGW must be assaulted from the flank

568 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:17:54pm

re: #559 darthstar

A "Marist" government, whatever the hell that is. Someone was kind enough to go put a small 'x' in the sign but the damage was already done. You can't be against something you can't even spell.


Must be an anti-Catholic nut.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

569 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:17:58pm

re: #547 Gus 802

I have a set of relatives living in Australia that came over last Christmas for the family gathering. One of them said "One of the best things about Australia, free healthcare."

I later learned that they were also here to get a back operation for my aunt, who had a spinal problem that was causing her to lose feeling in her right leg. Because the condition was not deemed "life-threatening" she would have faced a six-month wait in Australia. Their savings enabled them to pay for the operation at a decent facility here thanks to the exchange rate here (P42ish to AU$1) and she's well on her way to recovery.

I'm not defending private insurance either, I just believe that even universal health care systems need reform every now and then to ensure that medical decisions are medical, not political.

570 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:18:09pm

By the way, I'm going to be traveling again for 3 or 4 days, starting tomorrow. So posting is going to be a bit light.

571 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:18:20pm

re: #559 darthstar

A "Marist" government, whatever the hell that is. Someone was kind enough to go put a small 'x' in the sign but the damage was already done. You can't be against something you can't even spell.

Heh.

572 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:18:40pm

re: #564 Jadespring

Getting decent healthcare shouldn't be connected with the idea that it has anything to do with giving 'charity'.

Personally I find that connection morally disgusting.

Right. Charity. Pity. The country with the highest GDP in the world and people defending health insurance company profit margin based on the rejection of one infant. Well, there are thousands of others.

573 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:19:10pm

re: #570 Charles

By the way, I'm going to be traveling again for 3 or 4 days, starting tomorrow. So posting is going to be a bit light.

godspeed...we'll survive somehow

574 wee fury  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:19:22pm

re: #553 Bagua

Woke up this morning... and got myself a gun.

[Video]
- RLB

Not RLB -- Alabama

576 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:19:40pm

re: #570 Charles

By the way, I'm going to be traveling again for 3 or 4 days, starting tomorrow. So posting is going to be a bit light.

Bon Voyage! Be safe.

577 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:20:17pm

re: #5 albusteve

godspeed...we'll survive somehow

You're in charge till he gets back!

578 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:20:28pm

I can't be left unsupervised!

579 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:20:52pm

re: #558 Gus 802

Yeah, looks like they were handing out bottle of vinegar as a beverage.

LOL I particularly like bringing 4 year olds to these events. Let them learn early, I say!

580 darthstar  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:21:43pm

re: #570 Charles

By the way, I'm going to be traveling again for 3 or 4 days, starting tomorrow. So posting is going to be a bit light.

You should get a sub to post your threads for you.

581 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:21:54pm

re: #578 albusteve

I can't be left unsupervised!

That'll be Walters job

582 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:21:56pm

re: #542 Charles

She liked Zombie's attack on Holdren too:

[Link: tabithahale.com...]

To call Holdren a "czar" just means she doesn't know about his position.

583 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:22:09pm

This is not mine;

We have to find a way around it.
I've explained that before...AGW must be assaulted from the flank

How can you post with no comment number?

584 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:22:57pm

re: #567 albusteve

I was writing about the cognitive dissonance that is raging throughout the right-o-sphere in general, not just about AGW.

585 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:22:59pm

re: #583 swamprat

This is not mine;


How can you post with no comment number?

refresh ,,, happened to me ,,, happens sometimes on longish threads

586 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:23:03pm

re: #577 sattv4u2

You're in charge till he gets back!

all right mates...

on the count of three...

587 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:23:13pm

re: #582 freetoken

She liked Zombie's attack on Holdren too:

[Link: tabithahale.com...]

To call Holdren a "czar" just means she doesn't know about his position.

And here we are going into year 2 of the administration. What has Holdren done that was predicted by those crackpots? Nothing much really.

588 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:23:33pm

Good night, all. Have a couple of Swedish babes singing an old Steely Dan album track:

589 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:23:38pm

re: #564 Jadespring

Getting decent healthcare shouldn't be connected with the idea that it has anything to do with giving 'charity'.

Personally I find that connection morally disgusting.

As a Canadian, I can tell you that every citizen should be entitled, as of right, to the highest level of health care that society can reasonably afford to provide...which in Canada's case is unfortunately not extremely high.

590 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:24:11pm
591 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:24:12pm

re: #582 freetoken

She liked Zombie's attack on Holdren too:

[Link: tabithahale.com...]

To call Holdren a "czar" just means she doesn't know about his position.

Oh yeah. Her sub-title says it all. Figures.

No true Scotsman.

592 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:24:32pm

re: #585 sattv4u2

refresh ,,, happened to me ,,, happens sometimes on longish threads

I once saw one quoted line of text that landed between comment balloons. The code gets fatigued, I guess.

593 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:24:59pm

re: #587 Gus 802

Science Advisor is a coordinating position, to make sure efforts and funding is not duplicated and to make sure there are no serious holes (wrt science) in the overall Gov't science budget/efforts.

It's a very visible position whose value is mostly in that he has (in theory) the President's ear.

594 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:25:35pm

brb lunch.

595 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:25:42pm

re: #590 laZardo

Obama cancelled the Constellation program. D:

Wish they'd kill it altogether, and put the money into unmanned space probes.

596 albusteve  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:25:56pm

re: #584 freetoken

I was writing about the cognitive dissonance that is raging throughout the right-o-sphere in general, not just about AGW.

I picked out AGW because it's a perfect example of having to circumvent the deniers somehow...to continue functioning we have to keep moving forward rather than continue this brawl between us and them...go around if we must

597 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:26:58pm

re: #570 Charles

By the way, I'm going to be traveling again for 3 or 4 days, starting tomorrow. So posting is going to be a bit light.

Have a great trip.

598 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:27:01pm

re: #589 Spare O'Lake

As a Canadian, I can tell you that every citizen should be entitled, as of right, to the highest level of health care that society can reasonably afford to provide...which in Canada's case is unfortunately not extremely high.

Folks complain about the Canadian system, but let me ask you this:

Would you trade your system for ours?

599 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:27:10pm

re: #592 The Sanity Inspector

I once saw one quoted line of text that landed between comment balloons. The code gets fatigued, I guess.

I once saw an elephant in my pajamas ,,,, how he got on my pajamas i'll never know!!

THE "Marxist" ,,,

600 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:27:16pm

re: #593 freetoken

Science Advisor is a coordinating position, to make sure efforts and funding is not duplicated and to make sure there are no serious holes (wrt science) in the overall Gov't science budget/efforts.

It's a very visible position whose value is mostly in that he has (in theory) the President's ear.

Right. We know that. However, according to Zombie, he makes it sound like he was going to help create a draconian state where births would be controlled by a big brother government. They still believe that.

I'm still waiting. Not really waiting but you know what I mean.

601 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:27:54pm

re: #595 The Sanity Inspector

Wish they'd kill it altogether, and put the money into unmanned space probes.

That's it! We'll ship all the sick folks to the moon!

602 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:28:12pm

Wooden Ships on the water.....

603 darthstar  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:28:27pm

Bed. It beckons. See you all tomorrow.

604 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:28:38pm

re: #601 marjoriemoon

That's it! We'll ship all the sick folks to the moon!

I'm not sick but, I volunteer!

605 sattv4u2  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:29:13pm

re: #604 Varek Raith

I'm not sick but, I volunteer!

Anyone that "volunteers" IS sick !!

606 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:29:33pm

re: #600 Gus 802

Right. We know that. However, according to Zombie, he makes it sound like he was going to help create a draconian state where births would be controlled by a big brother government. They still believe that.

I'm still waiting. Not really waiting but you know what I mean.

Check this out from the tabitha hale post-- perfect example of what FT and KT were saying about the imperviousness of the wingnut to facts:

Just a thought: Czar’s have no approval process. There’s no way this guy would have gotten through. And yet… here he is. I can guarantee you the there will be other things coming out regarding the czars. Unchecked power at its finest. Rest assured that we’ll hear nothing else about him either – no explanations are necessary when you’re simply a revolutionary.

Update: When I’m wrong I’ll own it. Holdren was actually confirmed. That actually makes me even more sad, because he got through the process. However, the fact that he was approved was ultimately a show, as he could have been approved regrdless.

"Indeed, having been wrong is in fact central to my point..."

607 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:29:40pm

re: #605 sattv4u2

Anyone that "volunteers" IS sick !!

Oh, yeah!
Commie!

608 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:29:50pm

re: #605 sattv4u2

I'm sick too! I'll go!

609 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:30:15pm

re: #589 Spare O'Lake

As a Canadian, I can tell you that every citizen should be entitled, as of right, to the highest level of health care that society can reasonably afford to provide...which in Canada's case is unfortunately not extremely high.

Yep and although the healthcare issue here may contain a lot of debate on delivery methods, problems, costs or the debate about allowing more privatization etc etc the basic principle of right and entitlement for all citizens to healthcare no matter who they are, their level of health and financial means is never in question.

610 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:30:36pm

re: #605 sattv4u2

Anyone that "volunteers" IS sick !!

Or fat!

611 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:30:37pm

re: #598 austin_blue

Folks complain about the Canadian system, but let me ask you this:

Would you trade your system for ours?

Nevah.

612 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:31:36pm

re: #606 iceweasel

"Indeed, having been wrong is in fact central to my point..."

They always have an out. "Yes I was wrong but in fact that really proves my initial point." The other bit being, "oh but that was different" if you find similar occurrences in the past.

613 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:32:10pm

re: #611 Spare O'Lake

Nevah.

Have a cookie.

614 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:33:46pm

re: #554 Gus 802

Tea Party sign calls for declaring war on the government, if needed

Violent Bad Craziness at work. It'll get somebody killed.

615 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:33:55pm

re: #612 Gus 802

They always have an out. "Yes I was wrong but in fact that really proves my initial point." The other bit being, "oh but that was different" if you find similar occurrences in the past.

Up is orange
Down is book
Left is fire
Right is aura

;)

616 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:34:17pm

re: #611 Spare O'Lake

Nevah.

Thank you. That's what I thought.

In fact, no one that I know who has ever lived in a country where the Gubmint either controls or highly regulates medical care would even *think* of trading their system for ours. We are the last country in the western world that encourages profit to be made by shareholders on people's illnesses.

617 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:34:50pm

re: #609 Jadespring

Yep and although the healthcare issue here may contain a lot of debate on delivery methods, problems, costs or the debate about allowing more privatization etc etc the basic principle of right and entitlement for all citizens to healthcare no matter who they are, their level of health and financial means is never in question.

This is why I have such disdain for Obama and the Dems for pissing away a historic opportunity to pass a single payer system.
EPIC DEM FAIL

618 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:35:13pm

re: #613 Gus 802

619 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:35:20pm

re: #616 austin_blue

Thank you. That's what I thought.

In fact, no one that I know who has ever lived in a country where the Gubmint either controls or highly regulates medical care would even *think* of trading their system for ours. We are the last country in the western world that encourages profit to be made by shareholders on people's illnesses.

On illnesses and death.

But yeah, "save the unborn."

620 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:35:24pm

re: #570 Charles

By the way, I'm going to be traveling again for 3 or 4 days, starting tomorrow. So posting is going to be a bit light.

Hope you have fun. We'll get by while you're gone.

621 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:36:15pm

re: #618 WindHorse

[Video]

Funny kid.

622 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:36:52pm

re: #617 Spare O'Lake

This is why I have such disdain for Obama and the Dems for pissing away a historic opportunity to pass a single payer system.
EPIC DEM FAIL

Funny. I don't remember you arguing in favour of single payer or health care reform this summer.

I must have missed it.

623 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:38:05pm

re: #616 austin_blue

Interesting spin. I hope we do this more like the French and Norwegians, and less like the British, French and Cubans.

624 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:38:39pm

re: #615 Varek Raith

Up is orange
Down is book
Left is fire
Right is aura

;)

Hey, thought of something funny before. 30 years from now Jonah Goldberg will be saying that the Tea Party was really a Leftist movement.

/

625 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:38:58pm

I'm still not feeling well, so I'm going to turn in early. Goodnight, All.

626 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:39:26pm

re: #625 Dark_Falcon

I'm still not feeling well, so I'm going to turn in early. Goodnight, All.

Later DF.

627 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:39:46pm

re: #623 swamprat

Interesting spin. I hope we do this more like the French and Norwegians, and less like the British, French Canadians and Cubans.

628 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:41:25pm

just watched the big fight and probably off to bed if i can sleep.

629 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:41:31pm

re: #617 Spare O'Lake

This is why I have such disdain for Obama and the Dems for pissing away a historic opportunity to pass a single payer system.
EPIC DEM FAIL

I actually thought a lot about the state of the healthcare debate in the US while on my way to the hospital. I thought about what this trip or the decision to even take the trip would have been like if I was living with some of insurance regimes or even with no insurance regime down south that I've heard about from people here and elsewhere.

It just made me really durn sad to think about it and do the 'what if' game.

630 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:41:32pm

I'm surprised, they actually have the clip on youtube, I Want an Oompa-Loompa Now!

631 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:41:34pm

re: #617 Spare O'Lake

This is why I have such disdain for Obama and the Dems for pissing away a historic opportunity to pass a single payer system.
EPIC DEM FAIL

Not really. They had no chance. The money on the other side was too much. Their paid mouthpieces too vocal. The Senate bill is milquetoast but it *did* kick the can down the road a bit. Health care reform, and a single-payer system, will be a slow process here. Single-payer may *never* happen. We may end up with a system like the Swiss or the Germans, where insurance companies are tightly controlled, can't deny coverage, and premiums are set by rule.

Yet, amazingly, they still make tidy profits. Fancy that.

632 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:41:41pm

re: #613 Gus 802

Have a cookie.

A case of decadent double chocolate chip by overnight courier will do.

633 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:42:27pm

re: #632 Spare O'Lake

A case of decadent double chocolate chip by overnight courier will do.

Hmm, in that case I'll have one too.

634 jaunte  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:42:40pm

Goodnight all. Keep chipping away at it.

The amelioration of the world cannot be achieved by sacrifices in moments of crisis; it depends on the efforts made and constantly repeated during the humdrum, uninspiring periods, which separate one crisis from another, and of which normal lives mainly consist.
-- Aldous Huxley

635 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:43:11pm

re: #623 swamprat

Interesting spin. I hope we do this more like the French and Norwegians, and less like the British, French and Cubans.

So the French are good *and* bad?

Is your Freudian Slip showing?

;-)

636 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:43:46pm

re: #626 Gus 802

Later DF.

Night DF! Be well, my man.

637 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:44:40pm

re: #616 austin_blue

Good for most French, bad for the 20,000 that could have been treated during the heatwave had all the doctors not been out on their scheduled vacations.

638 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:45:11pm

re: #627 swamprat

Germany, Switzerland and Taiwan have some interesting systems. Of course, we can't seem to resist the temptation to reinvent the wheel.

639 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:45:51pm

re: #637 laZardo

Good for most French, bad for the 20,000 that could have been treated during the heatwave had all the doctors not been out on their scheduled vacations.

Most were elderly, in apartments without AC. They died at home, not in the ER.

640 Silvergirl  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:46:03pm

re: #602 WindHorse

Wooden Ships on the water...

Thanks for putting that song into my head. It hasn't been there in a long time. I don't quite know what you're talking about in this thread yet, I'm I'm going to try to stay a bit and find out.

I see DF has left the building, but good-night and be well, kid!

641 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:46:30pm

re: #615 Varek Raith

Up is orange
Down is book
Left is fire
Right is aura

;)

Cool, now I can beat that dungeon level that keeps driving me crazy! q;

642 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:46:46pm

re: #629 Jadespring

Hey, how is your hornet sting? You went to the hospital?

643 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:46:51pm

re: #637 laZardo

It was a phoenominal heatwave - we had the tail end of it in the UK.

Biggest life savers would have been airconditioning units delivered to the elderly in the worst affected areas. Would have done a lot more than any number of missing doctors.

644 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:47:31pm

re: #641 laZardo

Cool, now I can beat that dungeon level that keeps driving me crazy! q;

Awesome, my nonsense was useful!
:)

645 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:49:27pm

re: #643 wozzablog

re: #639 austin_blue

Points made.

646 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:49:36pm

Goodnight folks - from myself and ice-ski. Have a good one :)

647 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:49:52pm

Not a good sign when the Vatican has to be in perpetual defense mode:

Vatican: Pope not in sex ‘cover-up

The Vatican yesterday denounced what it called aggressive attempts to drag Pope Benedict XVI into the spreading scandals of pedophile priests in his German homeland.

The Vatican’s campaign followed acknowledgment by the Munich archdiocese that it had allowed a suspected pedophile priest to continue to work in the community while Benedict was archbishop there. The priest went on to abuse other children.

648 Silvergirl  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:49:54pm

re: #578 albusteve

I can't be left unsupervised!

I am in a mood. That was a throw the head back and guffaw.

649 Silvergirl  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:50:33pm

re: #646 Jimmah

Goodnight folks - from myself and ice-ski. Have a good one :)


[Video]

Nighty-night.

650 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:52:32pm

6am.

Mothersday today. Must be up before noon.............


g'night all

651 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:53:03pm

re: #642 prairiefire

Hey, how is your hornet sting? You went to the hospital?

Yep after I logged off I talked with the hubby and we decided to take a trip into emerg. The sting was swelling like crazy and sending shooting pains across my chest to my shoulders and up my neck. I wasn't worried that I was going to go into some sort of shock that was life threatening but it was worrisome enough that I wasn't sure if antihistmine pill would cut it. So I went and got a shot and within about 1/2 hour it started to go away. I think I was there for about 45 mins.

Now I have to be concerned about becoming sensitized to it so since it's more then likely I will get stung again at some point we're going to get an epi-pen for our home first aid kit just to be safe.

652 Irenicum  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:56:41pm

Well, this has been an interesting thread. I just had a long conversation with a good friend from West Michigan who argued every right wing talking point. In fact, the reason he even called me was b/c of a post I made on my FB page. We discussed evolution, AGW, church/state, abortion, and several personal issues. In each part of the conversation I explained my views, as did he, of where we're coming from. While on the issue of abortion we agreed, I mentioned also that while it is among the primary issues of importance to me, it is one of many, and so I can't use it as a stand alone issue that defines everything I do. But on every other issue he spoke every talking point I've heard before. It was pretty amazing. to be honest. I feel like I've been prepared for this very kind of conversation by LGF and the links it has provided. As a matter of fact I was helped by the Big Bang theory video posted earlier today to answer his questions regarding red shift and the background radiation. My knowledge of that was directly helped by the post I read. Hopefully he'll read what I recommend. He's a close friend. I value my relationship with him. And I respect that he decided to call me instead of posting a snarky comment on my FB page. This is the kind of dialogue that can change minds among Christian conservatives. Or at least let them know that other Christians come to different conclusions. Christians like me.

653 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:57:11pm

0.o

Could this be our own Western version of "rage boy?"

654 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:57:14pm

re: #651 Jadespring

Yep after I logged off I talked with the hubby and we decided to take a trip into emerg. The sting was swelling like crazy and sending shooting pains across my chest to my shoulders and up my neck. I wasn't worried that I was going to go into some sort of shock that was life threatening but it was worrisome enough that I wasn't sure if antihistmine pill would cut it. So I went and got a shot and within about 1/2 hour it started to go away. I think I was there for about 45 mins.

Now I have to be concerned about becoming sensitized to it so since it's more then likely I will get stung again at some point we're going to get an epi-pen for our home first aid kit just to be safe.

Good idea. Better safe than...errr... not safe.

655 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:57:16pm

re: #651 Jadespring

Yes, you will have to be careful. My father-in-law was stung about 6 times by hornets while helping a neighbor with yard work. He passed out, and the Dr. told him he can't sustain another sting again in his life. They have an epi-pen in the freezer. Have an exterminator check for nests in eaves or any other place you can't easily see.
Take care, and good night, Lizards.

656 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:57:18pm

re: #635 austin_blue

It's a love/hate relationship; what can I say?

657 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:57:43pm

re: #622 iceweasel

Funny. I don't remember you arguing in favour of single payer or health care reform this summer.

I must have missed it.

Bring it.

658 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:58:38pm

re: #657 Spare O'Lake

Bring it.

You two aren't gonna get into a break dance duel, are you???

659 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:59:05pm

Silvergirl....

And it's a fair wind, blowin' warm,
Out of the south over my shoulder,
Guess I'll set a course and go...

I was (indirectly) wishing Charles well on his upcoming journey....

(so I am a little ambiguous....)

660 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:03:14pm

re: #631 austin_blue

Not really. They had no chance. The money on the other side was too much. Their paid mouthpieces too vocal. The Senate bill is milquetoast but it *did* kick the can down the road a bit. Health care reform, and a single-payer system, will be a slow process here. Single-payer may *never* happen. We may end up with a system like the Swiss or the Germans, where insurance companies are tightly controlled, can't deny coverage, and premiums are set by rule.

Yet, amazingly, they still make tidy profits. Fancy that.

But I thought single payer was a major plank of Obama's platform. With legislative majorities in both House and Senate, they could have passed it if they had the party discipline.
Epic fail...and no one to blame but themselves.

661 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:04:00pm

re: #652 Irenicum

As I mentioned above, I'm concerned that we have to find a way around the cognitive dissonances that describe so many of our fellow citizens.

You've shown one way - friendship (non-sexual bonding). Since the real issues are usually not the ones on the surface of the discussion, one way to help people is to created a non-threatening atmosphere in which more sensitive struggles can surface.

662 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:04:21pm

re: #660 Spare O'Lake

It never ever was - and whoever told you that was selling you a sack of shit

663 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:04:55pm

Andrée Peel, Rescuer of Allied Airmen, Dies at 105

Andrée Peel, a highly decorated French resistance figure who helped save dozens of American and British airmen shot down over France during World War II, died on March 5 in the English village of Long Ashton, outside Bristol. She was 105.
...
She was best remembered for playing an important role in the rescue of 102 Allied airmen, by her account, in a network that set up safe houses for fliers on the run from the Germans and then took the men to isolated sections of the Brest beaches, where they boarded boats transporting them to England.
...
She was beaten and tortured, then imprisoned at the Ravensbrück and Buchenwald concentration camps. She was about to be killed by a firing squad at Buchenwald when it was liberated by American troops in April 1945.

“I saved 102 pilots before being arrested, interrogated and tortured,” the BBC quoted her as once having said. “I suffer still from that. I still have the pain.”
...On Feb. 3 she celebrated her 105th birthday at her nursing home. Wearing 11 decorations for valor on her blouse, she was presented with a cake decorated with the French flag and sang the French national anthem.

“You don’t know what freedom is if you have never lost it,” Mrs. Peel once told The Bristol Evening Post. “The only fear we had was of being tortured and of speaking under torture,” she added. “I rarely thought of my personal safety. I just acted and did what I believed was the right thing.”

664 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:05:33pm
665 Silvergirl  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:06:09pm

re: #659 WindHorse

Silvergirl...

And it's a fair wind, blowin' warm,
Out of the south over my shoulder,
Guess I'll set a course and go...

I was (indirectly) wishing Charles well on his upcoming journey...

(so I am a little ambiguous...)

Just a more interesting bon voyage. Poetic.

666 blueraven  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:06:43pm

re: #660 Spare O'Lake

But I thought single payer was a major plank of Obama's platform. With legislative majorities in both House and Senate, they could have passed it if they had the party discipline.
Epic fail...and no one to blame but themselves.

You are mis-informed. Single payer was never part of Obama's health care reform.

667 freetoken  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:07:19pm
668 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:08:15pm

re: #663 Gus 802 I will now sing the French National Anthem, as I had to do at school.

Founded by a French expatriot.

669 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:08:16pm

re: #666 blueraven

In an ideal world - with a clean slate and unde rthe very best of conditions it his his ideal mechanism..........

But since he acknowledges we have none of those things he has never proposed it as policy during his presidential run or while in the white house.

670 Silvergirl  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:08:51pm

re: #663 Gus 802

Andrée Peel, Rescuer of Allied Airmen, Dies at 105

What a life! Action-packed doesn't always match up with longevity, but it worked for her.

671 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:08:54pm

re: #663 Gus 802

Vive la Resistance!

672 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:09:07pm

re: #668 swamprat

I will now sing the French National Anthem, as I had to do at school.

Founded by a French expatriot.

Hey, I was just thinking about posting a You Tube of the anthem.

673 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:09:23pm

re: #652 Irenicum

Glad it worked out so positively! I'm more apprehensive. I was going to put something on my FB about the Texas BoE, but I don't think I will. Too many co-workers and family and while it's definitely a topic I would do face-to-face, I'm leaving FB for lighter stuff.

Mr. Moon is political and loves to post atheist stuff. The only response he's gotten are from his two sisters that always comment "I'm telling mom!" ... and laughter ensues.

674 Irenicum  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:09:31pm

re: #661 freetoken

Thanks for your kind words. I'm very grateful, as I mentioned to my right wing friend, that I have friends from across the political spectrum. And so I hear views that challenge my own views on a regular basis. That cross pollination keeps my political sensibility intact and keeps me from straying too far into any political wilderness of either the left or the right. That's a good thing.

675 lostlakehiker  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:10:09pm

re: #547 Gus 802

I don't buy it. It's done all over the world. There's no excuse and I am not interested in the defense of insurance company snakes.

So what you're saying is that the insurance company has a moral obligation to make this bad bet? And any other bad bet that may come along? That it has plenty of money, and no number of bad bets could possibly sink it, because they have, like, scads of money?

Rubbish. Insurance is only possible when premiums cover the money paid out on insured losses. Insurance companies are not snakes. You demonize them without just cause and without thinking through what must happen if they act as you would have them act.

There are State-run health systems here and there. They run, badly, but they provide coverage of a sort. You can go to a hospital, perhaps. Free. But consider the quality of care. strapped down and left to die of dehydration.
This is an extreme case, but it's emblematic. State run institutions, really big organizations not local efforts, are not much good at their work. Be it the post office, or big city school systems, or Britain's NHS, or our own VA, they just don't come up to the standard of private enterprise.

The armed forces somehow manage to escape this syndrome. NASA avoided it for decades before beginning to succumb. This observation is not a law of physics, and it does have its exceptions. Just not many.

676 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:10:16pm

re: #670 Silvergirl

What a life! Action-packed doesn't always match up with longevity, but it worked for her.

Sure was. Amazing to think about. Her life and all that happened. Having been born in 1905.

677 blueraven  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:11:15pm

re: #669 wozzablog

In an ideal world - with a clean slate and unde rthe very best of conditions it his his ideal mechanism...

But since he acknowledges we have none of those things he has never proposed it as policy during his presidential run or while in the white house.

Yes, that is what I meant. Problem is, so many people believe otherwise...government takeover and all that. Obama is more of a pragmatist than an ideologue.

678 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:11:30pm

re: #667 freetoken

Hugo wants your blog:

Venezuela's Chavez calls for internet controls

He's just envious that some video on YouTube is getting more hits than his agitprop.

/ q;

679 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:13:46pm

re: #675 lostlakehiker

I'm sorry. I just do not agree at all - and the Daily Mail is a scare rag of the lowest order.

I've never had anything but great treatment from the NHS.

Never been denied a drug i've needed.

Never paid more than £7 for any drug i've ever needed on prescription.

Always been seen in good order when attending an emergency room.

Always been able to get an appointment to see a general practitiner or practice nurse.

My grandmother has always had good treatment too - and at 94 has always been well treated and fussed. over.

Please take your scare mongering elsewhere.

680 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:14:37pm

re: #675 lostlakehiker

Yes, here we go again with the worst case scenarios. Always comparing it to the NHS. Always making insurance companies look like the victims with no money. No one is saying it should be like the NHS. No one is saying it should be like Canada. But instead we get the same old right wing propaganda.

Why not go all out and drop the NHS meme and start comparing it to Cuba. I think that would greatly ramp up the fear factor. Maybe throw in some death panels while we're at it.

681 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:15:47pm

re: #668 swamprat


tyranniea... always sang tee-a-llee-ah

682 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:16:11pm

re: #680 Gus 802

Ding ding ding brother.

Oh, and i'm sure no-one has EVER been removed from an insurance roll and died as a result.

683 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:17:27pm

God rest, Andree Peel!

684 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:17:28pm

re: #662 wozzablog

It never ever was - and whoever told you that was selling you a sack of shit

He sure was...and he was for it before he was against it.

685 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:17:36pm

Aetna CEO Ronald A. William
2008

Compensation for 2008
Salary $1,091,764.00
Bonus $0.00
Restricted stock awards $6,456,630.00
All other compensation $101,487.00
Option awards $ $13,537,365.00
Non-equity incentive plan compensation $1,950,000.00
Change in pension value and nonqualified deferred compensation earnings $1,162,866.00
Total Compensation $24,300,112.00

Boo hoo. The poor man. At that rate if he's CEO for 10 years he'll only have made probably close to 300 million dollars.

686 Irenicum  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:19:06pm

re: #673 marjoriemoon

I understand. I decided to be myself on my FB page about a year ago. I wanted my friends and coworkers to know exactly where I'm coming from. It is risky in terms of our relationships though. as my conversation earlier tonight illustrates. But it does offer opportunities for conversation that can shed more light than heat. That's my hope at least.

687 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:19:20pm

re: #684 Spare O'Lake

Jeeebus.

When on the campaign trail did he say say his POLICY - not his best case scenario when little green men appear to give us a clean slate - but his POLICY was to get a single payer BILL through congress?


Please.......... i'll be ineterested to hear this...........

688 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:20:09pm

re: #660 Spare O'Lake

But I thought single payer was a major plank of Obama's platform. With legislative majorities in both House and Senate, they could have passed it if they had the party discipline.
Epic fail...and no one to blame but themselves.

Democrats are...Democrats.

Will Rogers famously said:

"I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

It's always been a coalition. Southern rural Ds (Blue Dogs) are much more moderate/conservative than their northern and urban counterparts. The Party had the numbers, but not the votes. Political reality in the US for the Ds.

The Rs, on the other hand, have been very successful in running off their moderate wing. Which is why they can't call the kookier factions involved in the Tea Party movement kooks. This a big-time problem for them. Too much of the base is frothing and involved in the movement. The Talking Heads on the right can say anything that they want, but calls for armed insurrection, not immediately condemned by the Rs to placate the base, tangentially involved with the kooks, is going to bite them in the ass with Independents.

689 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:20:54pm

re: #677 blueraven

Yes, that is what I meant. Problem is, so many people believe otherwise...government takeover and all that. Obama is more of a pragmatist than an ideologue.

The real problem is that Obama has been speaking out of both sides of his mouth for so long that no one can be too sure of what, if anything, his position is on anything.

690 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:20:59pm

re: #682 wozzablog

Ding ding ding brother.

Oh, and i'm sure no-one has EVER been removed from an insurance roll and died as a result.

Oh yeah. Never. And since we are talking about insurance and the motivation behind all of this was the rejection of an overweight infant it doesn't take into account that the parents would be a) paying premiums probably until the child reached adult age and b) also paying high deductible. So it's not like they would not be paying for the service in the first place.

It's just bullshit. They're even defending the insurance companies from unethical practices. This wasn't even really about single payer nor public health insurance. They're even against health care regulatory reform.

691 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:22:10pm

Nancy Pelosi = Fail.

692 blueraven  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:22:16pm

re: #682 wozzablog

Ding ding ding brother.

Oh, and i'm sure no-one has EVER been removed from an insurance roll and died as a result.

Or died from neglect or mal practice in a privately run hospital.

693 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:23:15pm

re: #690 Gus 802

If the democrats bundled everything the GOP wanted in a bill and labelled it the Tort Reform, Apple Pie for Veterans and a Flag PinFor Every CHild Act 2010.........

It would still not get a republican vote.

694 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:23:23pm

Somehow I think the only reason that universal health care systems aren't trying to iron out their own problems is because of a fear of a slippery-slope to an American-style system...

695 blueraven  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:24:09pm

re: #689 Spare O'Lake

The real problem is that Obama has been speaking out of both sides of his mouth for so long that no one can be too sure of what, if anything, his position is on anything.

No the real problem is a lie is repeated over and over by the far right.

696 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:24:51pm

re: #684 Spare O'Lake

He sure was...and he was for it before he was against it.

No he wasn't. He talked about it and said that if he was starting from scratch with a blank slate so to speak he would likely go for some form of single payer. Then he went on to say that since this wasn't the case in the US that doing a massive switch to that wouldn't work. He said things like maybe we can get there eventually but that it wasn't practical. He then went onto talk about things like extending government funded care to those that were without (ie some sort of public option) and blabbed about taking more moderate steps.

That talk started the whole meme that he was really and truly for single payer (socialism commie blah blah) and his 'agenda' was to sneak it in. And on the single payer supporter side of the spectrum started the meme that he really and truely IS for single payer and will implement it but he had to be careful about not advocating for it in a serious way during his election. Then when he didn't and didn't fight for single payer those folks got pissed and freaked out.

697 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:25:34pm

re: #667 freetoken

Hugo wants your blog:

Venezuela's Chavez calls for internet controls

He's an idiot ruling a Petrocracy. No future in it. In fifty years, when the oil fields are depleted, Venezuelans will be dining on each other because they didn't build an alternative to an oil-only economy.

Hello failed state in the West!!

698 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:25:40pm

re: #694 laZardo

The British system is not entirely public any more - private operators are coming in under the radar and at the fringes to take some of the load off the central services.

I can visit a private optometrist, dentist, chiropractor or physiothereapist for - compared to american health insurance co-pays - very reasonable rates.

699 swamprat  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:26:00pm

No need to argue about what healthcare was supposed to be, or how Obama wanted it to be done.

Some version will get passed, and then, no matter what version is passed, it will get changed to what is wanted, and that will spark outrage, so it will be changed further.

Arguing now, is like yelling about how your mom made you mop the floor when you were 4 years old.
Totally irrelevant.

700 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:26:36pm

re: #688 austin_blue

Democrats are...Democrats.

Will Rogers famously said:

"I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

It's always been a coalition. Southern rural Ds (Blue Dogs) are much more moderate/conservative than their northern and urban counterparts. The Party had the numbers, but not the votes. Political reality in the US for the Ds.

Can't argue with Will Rogers.
BTW your observation that "The Party had the numbers, but not the votes" is a brilliant catch phrase.
Good night all.

The Rs, on the other hand, have been very successful in running off their moderate wing. Which is why they can't call the kookier factions involved in the Tea Party movement kooks. This a big-time problem for them. Too much of the base is frothing and involved in the movement. The Talking Heads on the right can say anything that they want, but calls for armed insurrection, not immediately condemned by the Rs to placate the base, tangentially involved with the kooks, is going to bite them in the ass with Independents.

701 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:28:01pm

re: #693 wozzablog

If the democrats bundled everything the GOP wanted in a bill and labelled it the Tort Reform, Apple Pie for Veterans and a Flag PinFor Every CHild Act 2010...

It would still not get a republican vote.

Wait. I have an idea...

The Operation Nigeria, Operation Somalia, Creationist Education, Sanctity of Life, Marriage Amendment, Tort Reform, Apple Pie for Veterans, Health Care Reform, and a Flag Pin for Every Child Act 2010.

Can we count on Mr. DeMint's signature?

/

702 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:29:59pm

re: #700 Spare O'Lake

I screwed that post up, sorry.
Will Rogers is right.
Good night.

703 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:31:15pm

Nite kids.

704 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:31:20pm

re: #702 Spare O'Lake

I screwed that post up, sorry.
Will Rogers is right.
Good night.

Night!

705 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:31:48pm

re: #703 wozzablog

Nite kids.

Tah!

706 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:31:57pm

re: #35 butterick

I'm assuming the tree in the background of the page is Yggdrasil - the tree from Norse myth that represents, in racist circles, the white / European family tree. Dog whistle web design at its finest.

Well, that's dumb. Yggdrasil is the World Tree, there's no reason on earth to think that only white people are perched up there in the branches.

/OK, I go to too many parties with Asatru worshippers.

707 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:32:06pm

re: #703 wozzablog

Nighty.

708 Jadespring  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:32:08pm

re: #702 Spare O'Lake

I screwed that post up, sorry.
Will Rogers is right.
Good night.

Night!

709 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:32:34pm

re: #706 SanFranciscoZionist

My favorite interpretation of Viking Mythology... MAX PAYNE.

/the game, that is. the movie was absolute dogshit.

710 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:32:34pm

re: #42 Obdicut

It's probably the dyed blonde hair.

Such a shallow, obviously racist attack on her. Dying your hair blonde doesn't mean you're trying to look white. Jesus, what a moron.

It's a Texas thing.

Being blond, I mean.

711 Irenicum  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:33:38pm

In the words of the evil scientist in the Bugs Bunny cartoon, nighty night!

712 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:34:32pm

re: #48 Obdicut

I love Norse legend. I fucking hate it that white supremacists have coopted it.

Odin, the one-eyed god, would walk the earth testing the hospitality of man, punishing those who failed to be gracious to guests.

All these Pagan-Nordic white supremacists who want to kick out immigrants would fail the test of the god they claim to admire.

Also, the Norse were not racists. There's no evidence that they thought skin color mattered a damn. What they cared about was courage, fair dealing, and generosity.

713 Gus  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:34:55pm

Hires, Fires And Retires: Oct. 13-20, 2006

This week, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission's investigation into backdated stock options snared a really big fish. On Sunday, UnitedHealth Group CEO William McGuire became the most prominent executive to resign amid inquires into past stock option grants and an undisclosed financial relationship. Stephen Hemsley, UnitedHealth's chief operating officer and president, will replace McGuire as CEO. Board member Richard Burke will take over McGuire's chairman duties in the new position of non-executive chairman.

McGuire is in good company: David Lubben, UnitedHealth's (nyse: UNH - news - people ) general counsel, and William Spears, head of the compensation committee, also stepped down. The board plans to fill five seats with new independent directors over three years. Investors credit McGuire with building UnitedHealth into the largest insurer in the country, with over $70 million in revenue expected this year. McGuire, trained as a pulmonologist, joined UnitedHealth in 1988 and became CEO and chairman in 1991. By the end of 2005, he held over $1.6 billion in stock options.

McGuire racked in $124.8 million in 2004 alone. Now that crook is gone.

714 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:35:07pm

re: #709 laZardo

My favorite interpretation of Viking Mythology... MAX PAYNE.

/the game, that is. the movie was absolute dogshit.

Try Neil Gaiman's American Gods. Great little book.

715 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:36:30pm

re: #55 jaunte

I agree. Not the worst thing they do, but very annoying to some of us who want to study that history without being considered white supremacists.

I know Norse-style pagans who are positively paranoid about reaching out to new people or contacts, because as one woman said to me, "For every sane guy I meet who just wants to honor Thor, it seems like there's ten freakin' weirdo racists."

716 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:37:16pm

re: #712 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, the Norse were not racists. There's no evidence that they thought skin color mattered a damn. What they cared about was courage, fair dealing, and generosity.

Well, at the time, in their world, there was only *one*, which was white as aspirin and tended to burn on exposure to the sun....

717 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:38:30pm

re: #68 Cato the Elder

? Was that race-baiting or just projection?

I say, mostly whining. Some people seem to think that just mentioning that, say, black people have had a rather hard time of it this past few hundred years, is some kind of personal attack of them and their supply of martyr cookies.

718 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:41:30pm

re: #98 Jadespring

Yeah some of it is pretty sickening. There's absolutely nothing wrong with looking into ones ancestral heritage and being proud of it. The problem is when it's taken and used as part of the whole proving we're superior.
The worst thing I've come across is the use of symbols, like versions of the celtic cross which does appear to be increasing in some white nationalist circles. Makes me ill when I think of some of the jewelry I have sitting on my night table. I would hate for that symbol to get to a point where wearing those pieces would peg me as something that I am not.

I get pretty manic about the use of the Celtic cross. That is a beautiful and revered old symbol, and the thought of these jerks getting their grubby little fingerprints on it makes me nuts.

They've already messed up the swastika. Do they have to appropriate every sun symbol they can find and get filth all over it?

719 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:43:09pm

re: #123 LudwigVanQuixote

My favorite version of it has always been that they are the actual Jews and that Jesus was a guy with blond hair and blue eyes.

I encountered one of those. His name was McKenzie. His ancestors came from the tribe of McKenzie in the province of Judea known as Glasgow.

Then there's the folks who will tell you Jesus was a black guy. EVERYONE wants a piece of Jesus.

720 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:43:52pm

re: #129 prairiefire

I would like to know if any Jewish lizards consider the Roma the lost tribe of Israel?

Eh? Never heard that. I thought they started out from Northern India somewhere.

721 laZardo  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:44:46pm

re: #719 SanFranciscoZionist

Then there's the folks who will tell you Jesus was a black guy. EVERYONE wants a piece of Jesus.

But you don't fuck with the Jesus.

722 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:48:50pm

re: #254 Alouette

Who was the lizard that recommended the Lindsay Davis novels with the Roman detective? I read one today and it was very entertaining.

That was me! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

723 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:49:53pm

re: #720 SanFranciscoZionist

Eh? Never heard that. I thought they started out from Northern India somewhere.

I think you are correct. The LDS, on the other hand, or a chunk of it, believes American Indians are one the lost tribes of Israel:

"The Book of Mormon, one of the religious texts of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), claims that early residents of the Americas included descendents from the tribe of Joseph, and particularly through Manasseh."

The transportation mechanism, however, has never been reasonably explained.

The most reasonable explanation is aliens.

724 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:52:35pm

re: #363 publicityStunted

And no age limits as to who goes before them, it seems:

Heavy infant in Grand Junction denied health insurance

We've collectively lost our minds about weight in this country.

725 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:54:44pm

re: #375 Tigger2005

My dad is a decent person, but is in his late 80's and comes from another time. He also listens to Rush Limbaugh a lot.

A few years ago I was eating dinner with him at a buffet restaurant that attracts practically equal numbers of blacks, Hispanics, and whites. He decided to talk about the attempts to get some Southern states to get rid of the Dixie flag. "They're just honoring their soldiers," he said in their defense (and his family is Yankee).

I kept looking around hoping nobody was listening to him and silently begging him to talk about something else.

My family's Best Thanksgiving Moment Ever:

My cousin, in a loud whisper: "MOM! Grandpa's a bigot!"

My aunt, not in a whisper at all: "Why yes, honey. He is. Did I forget to tell you that? I'm sorry."

Which is probably unfair to our late grandfather. He was rather liberal for Fresno in the 1930s, and changed very few of his ideas after that.

726 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:56:01pm

re: #379 freetoken

The Texastan SBOE would not approve:

DC Promotes Female Condom

I hope no one will think this is TMI, but my only experiment with such a device was extremely entertaining, but was my last such experiment for a reason.

727 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 10:56:49pm

re: #390 palomino

It becomes a real problem for athletes during Ramadan. Hakeem Olajuwon used to have a hell of a time explaining to Rockets fans why he was losing wait at the beginning of each year.

Eventually, the holiday would have cycled to a different point in the solar calender though.

728 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 11:01:38pm

re: #716 austin_blue

Well, at the time, in their world, there was only *one*, which was white as aspirin and tended to burn on exposure to the sun...

Well, in the immediate vicinity. But they made it as far as North Africa and Turkey, they eventually got to see folks who didn't look like them.

729 Bagua  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 11:06:46pm

re: #574 wee fury

Not RLB -- Alabama

Oops, best be Goin down south.


- RLB
730 Silvergirl  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 11:16:13pm

re: #209 Cato the Elder

All in good time.

"All in good time, my little pretty, all in good time."

Your new green avatar suggestion

731 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 11:21:13pm

re: #728 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, in the immediate vicinity. But they made it as far as North Africa and Turkey, they eventually got to see folks who didn't look like them.

True. "Skraelings" was the term for Inuit. And they ruled Sicily for quite a while. But hadn't they been Christiainized by then?

732 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 11:21:52pm

re: #731 austin_blue

True. "Skraelings" was the term for Inuit. And they ruled Sicily for quite a while. But hadn't they been Christiainized by then?

Going up thread.

733 lostlakehiker  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 11:25:09pm

re: #680 Gus 802

Yes, here we go again with the worst case scenarios. Always comparing it to the NHS. Always making insurance companies look like the victims with no money. No one is saying it should be like the NHS. No one is saying it should be like Canada. But instead we get the same old right wing propaganda.

Why not go all out and drop the NHS meme and start comparing it to Cuba. I think that would greatly ramp up the fear factor. Maybe throw in some death panels while we're at it.

Why should I not compare our own impending NHS to Britain's or Canada's? What other two nations are more like our own, and yet more like how the Democrats would like ours to be?

I do not compare the system the Dems have in mind to impose on us majority of lame-o losers who don't want it, to Cuba, because Cuba is not a logical comparison.

I do not compare it to Switzerland or Denmark because those societies are just so very different from ours. For one thing, they are small enough that it is socially possible for their State enterprises to run fairly well.

734 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 11:29:02pm

re: #731 austin_blue

True. "Skraelings" was the term for Inuit. And they ruled Sicily for quite a while. But hadn't they been Christiainized by then?

Mostly, yes, although not totally. Erik the Red wasn't a Christian, and he encountered the Inuit. (Mrs. the Red was a Christian, which leads to one of the more charming stories I know about Erik.) The Varangian Guard is first mentioned in 911, when a fair chunk of the Norse-speaking world was still pagan.

The Icelanders held out the longest, and they eventually accepted Christianity as a nation in 1000, although that a was a political decision, and clearly, pagan practices continued for a generation at least afterward.

735 mph  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 11:37:54pm

Kejda and I came across Richard Spencer about a year ago at this debate titled "Is Zionism Racism?":
[Link: toddseavey.com...]

Crazy crazy and openly racist...told me he was a white nationalist ron-paulian-lew-rockwellian...the works...but never mind that -- just one look and you know the guy is insane.

Richard Spencer is a known friend of good old Robert Stacey McCain.

Stacey McCain defends his friend [Link: 74.125.113.132...] : "Richard Spencer, as I have written before, is a young radical intellectual who has read too much Nietzsche. Should he be shunned therefore? He was a graduate student at Duke during the lacrosse-team "rape" hoax, and I suppose that might radicalize anyone."

736 mph  Sat, Mar 13, 2010 11:49:36pm
re: #542 Charles
The right wing blogosphere is so far off the rails, it's insane.

To be fair -- at the debate I reference above -- Richard Spencer was supporting the ridiculous Palestinian terrorist-sympathizer who argued on behalf of the "zionism = racism" position -- only, Spencer made it clear he thought that was what made Zionism a good thing.

Spencer (and RSM) are representatives of the paleo-con epidemic...though it isn't a fair statement to lump all right-wingers into his camp...and yet the right-wing can't ignore these people either (as many are wont to do). There are different degrees of the paleo-con disease -- but it very contagious and must be fought at the source.

737 Spockista  Sun, Mar 14, 2010 10:44:23pm

thank you for exposing this! :-)


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