I was so hoping for an open!
Regards, Charles.
Be safe, in your travels!

New thread smell!!

We're still getting good threads, so I'm happy. Enjoy your trip.

Just filled out my census form...added 27 hispanic housemates...fuck you, Michelle Bachmann!

Okay...I didn't add the 27 housemates. But no sooner had I filled out the form did a black helicopter start hovering above my house.

re: #4 darthstar

FREAKING NWO.

OK, I'll try it again here--posting my response to the horse/man marriage thread, since the thread itself is dead:

Let's, for a moment, take this argument seriously (and include pedophilia and necrophilia, two other fundie boogeymen, along with bestiality), and address it logically, leaving aside any instinctive revulsion we feel for these behaviors.

A horse, a child, a corpse... none of these can give CONSENT. You cannot have a consensual, mutual, equal marital relationship with an animal, a child, or a dead person. This simple fact alone makes such marriages legally impossible. You don't need arguments from the Bible, or from nature, or even from the natural sense of revulsion these behaviors prompt.

Now, when it comes to polygamy, it gets a bit trickier. Some don't have any moral or ethical problems with polygamy. I do, because I think it results in an inherently unequal relationship (of course, some people don't think marriage is an equal partnership). But are my moral objections to polygamy sufficient argument against it? No. However, I think a strong argument can be made that legalizing polygamy would create too many legal issues and complexities, for the individuals involved in the marriages and for society as a whole. Divorces in polygamous marriages would be legal nightmares. I think the case can be made that allowing polygamous marriage would be against society's best interests.

It's been a long time since I've been this high up on a thread.

re: #6 Tigger2005

Rachel just talked to JD Horseworth but I wasn't paying attention. I just tend to tune him out when I hear his voice.

remember that old joke about the punishment for poligamy...is having 2 wives. re: #6 Tigger2005

re: #7 Plato

It's been a long time since I've been this high up on a thread.

I've been there. Trust me, it's no big deal.

re: #10 The Curmudgeon
I think I'm starting to get a nose bleed.

re: #7 Plato

It's been a long time since I've been this high up on a thread.

The air is crisp.

re: #6 Tigger2005

I think the argument goes--if we redefine marriage to allow for gay marriage, then why not allow for polygamy? I don't have an answer.

So tomorrow I will fly my last flight during my command tour. This will most likely be my last flight in the Navy...Kinda sad...

My plan is to fly to Tampa for lunch and then back to Jacksonville. Should be fun.

Hi everybody!

re: #4 darthstar

Just filled out my census form...added 27 hispanic housemates...fuck you, Michelle Bachmann!

Okay...I didn't add the 27 housemates. But no sooner had I filled out the form did a black helicopter start hovering above my house.

Please... don't anyone fudge your census forms. That information is very important to the country, and it really is your civic duty to be as honest and forthright as you can...

re: #13 sandbox

I think the argument goes--if we redefine marriage to allow for gay marriage, then why not allow for polygamy? I don't have an answer.

easy dude marriage penalty X2...

re: #14 rwdflynavy
You'll probably start hanging out at a small airport and take up somebody's stearman.

re: #14 rwdflynavy

So tomorrow I will fly my last flight during my command tour. This will most likely be my last flight in the Navy...Kinda sad...

My plan is to fly to Tampa for lunch and then back to Jacksonville. Should be fun.

Couldn't do a little detour over Norfolk?
Congrats.

re: #13 sandbox

I think the argument goes--if we redefine marriage to allow for gay marriage, then why not allow for polygamy? I don't have an answer.

How is polygamy like a gay union?

Obama: Premiums Will Decrease 3000% So You Should Get A Raise When H'care Is Passed

re: #18 Plato

You'll probably start hanging out at a small airport and take up somebody's stearman.

I've never had to pay to fly, that'd be like paying for sex (never done that either, although I am married so...).

re: #14 rwdflynavy

Congrats on a fine career! What will you fly?

re: #20 Walter L. Newton

You could ask, 'why should polygamy be illegal at all?'

re: #20 Walter L. Newton

It is a re-definition of marriage.

re: #20 Walter L. Newton
because it's different

I'm off to sleep with this in my head. Cuz it's an awesome song. =)

Night everyone! =)

(Yes, it'll get stuck in YOUR head too!) =)

re: #16 Walter L. Newton

Please... don't anyone fudge your census forms. That information is very important to the country, and it really is your civic duty to be as honest and forthright as you can...

As much as I like to make the noises, I always fill out my census.

re: #18 Plato

You'll probably start hanging out at a small airport and take up somebody's stearman.

Stearman!...a friend of mine owns one
2 pts

Image: Stearman%20II.jpg

re: #13 sandbox

I think the argument goes--if we redefine marriage to allow for gay marriage, then why not allow for polygamy? I don't have an answer.

As long as it's a marriage between one adult with multiple personality disorder and another with multiple personality disorder, then I suppose it's okay. But to not have an answer to such an asinine question defies reason.

re: #20 Walter L. Newton

It is a consenting adult alternative lifestyle. The burden is to prove why not. If we are going to set aside all prejudice anyway.

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

Congrats on a fine career! What will you fly?

Updinged to counter very odd downding.

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

Congrats on a fine career! What will you fly?

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

Congrats on a fine career! What will you fly?

One of these

re: #21 NJDhockeyfan

Obama: Premiums Will Decrease 3000% So You Should Get A Raise When H'care Is Passed

And a Unicorn. I heard there were unicorns.

re: #13 sandbox

I think the argument goes--if we redefine marriage to allow for gay marriage, then why not allow for polygamy? I don't have an answer.

The answer is in the redefinition.

re: #21 NJDhockeyfan

Obama: Premiums Will Decrease 3000% So You Should Get A Raise When H'care Is Passed

Evidently a mistake on his part... so, what does this prove?

re: #13 sandbox

I think the argument goes--if we redefine marriage to allow for gay marriage, then why not allow for polygamy? I don't have an answer.

Well, I think I gave the answer. Morally, I object to it because of the inequality inherent in it, but is that sufficient argument against it? I don't think so, because don't consenting adults have the right to freely enter into unequal partnerships?

But, I think a very strong case can be made that allowing polygamous marriage would simply place too great a burden on society as a whole. Divorces in monogamous marriages can get complicated enough as it is...imagine the legal nightmares involved in sorting out divorces in polygamous marriages.

re: #29 albusteve

a friend of mine owns one...blue body yellow wings

We just got our census form today also.
How do I count my Siberian Husky?
Black?
White?
She's both!
/

re: #14 rwdflynavy

So tomorrow I will fly my last flight during my command tour. This will most likely be my last flight in the Navy...Kinda sad...

My plan is to fly to Tampa for lunch and then back to Jacksonville. Should be fun.

Outstanding!

A B-52 pilot from my base at KI Sawyer AFB flew his plane under the Mackinaw Bridge his last flight. I wouldn't recommend you do anything remotely similar.

re: #31 Rightwingconspirator

It is a consenting adult alternative lifestyle. The burden is to prove why not. If we are going to set aside all prejudice anyway.

Fine with me then. What are you all scared of?

I have a Netflix movie "Hangover"

Is it worth watching for some mindless entertainment?

BBIAB - supper...

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

Outstanding!

A B-52 pilot from my base at KI Sawyer AFB flew his plane under the Mackinaw Bridge his last flight. I wouldn't recommend you do anything remotely similar.

No, I'll still be in the Navy for another 5 or so years, but not if I fly below a bridge!

Saw this on digg:

[Link: tampabay.com...]

An interesting exercise might be to take a story of American, far right religious/teabagger nuttery, and do some replacements. Sub out "God" for "Allah," Geographic names of Texas/Utah/Alabama with Iran/Afghanistan/Yemen, and names like John/Michael for Muhammed/Achmed.

Then plant the story at a crazy site in the nutosphere and watch them hate on the infidels without knowing its one of their own.

The similarities are jarring.

re: #34 Racer X

And a Unicorn. I heard there were unicorns.

dude, it is a lie. that is all.

re: #42 Alouette

I have a Netflix movie "Hangover"

Is it worth watching for some mindless entertainment?

You want mindless? Yes.

re: #13 sandbox

He just gave you an answer.

re: #42 Alouette

I have a Netflix movie "Hangover"

Is it worth watching for some mindless entertainment?

Not as funny as we had been led to believe.

re: #38 Plato

a friend of mine owns one...blue body yellow wings

same as the pic I posted...I think my buddy's is all yellow...what a trip!

re: #42 Alouette

I have a Netflix movie "Hangover"

Is it worth watching for some mindless entertainment?

The recent one? Are you kidding?

One of the best comedies ever!

re: #33 rwdflynavy

Naval Rotary wing pilot? Holy smokes that is hard flying. Top respects dude!

re: #36 Walter L. Newton

Evidently a mistake on his part... so, what does this prove?

that he lied.

re: #52 Rightwingconspirator

Naval Rotary wing pilot? Holy smokes that is hard flying. Top respects dude!

indeed...HAIL!

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

Congrats on a fine career! What will you fly?

Sandbox, I hope your downding was just a bad click.

re: #51 Racer X

The recent one? Are you kidding?

One of the best comedies ever!

OK going to watch it now. BBL

re: #42 Alouette

I have a Netflix movie "Hangover"

Is it worth watching for some mindless entertainment?

Mike Tyson acts like he belongs in the movies with the small role he has in this flick!

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

Thanks that is odd. Finger slip maybe.

re: #52 Rightwingconspirator

Naval Rotary wing pilot? Holy smokes that is hard flying. Top respects dude!

Thanks, It has been a fun ride!

My Cable was all messed up for the last 5 minutes...I've got 4 remotes going crazy pressing every button.. There were bad words involved...
What is going on? mmm..keep pressing menu button...Nothing is working..
Reboot..
The answer to all technical problems known to mankind

re: #49 rwdflynavy

Not as funny as we had been led to believe.

I recommend it if only to watch Mike Tyson throw that punch.

I laughed my ass off watching that flick.

(yeah I know, I'm sick, twisted yadayadayada)

re: #41 Walter L. Newton

Fine with me then. What are you all scared of?

maybe the resulting shortage of women, and the resulting increase in single (and angry) men. Just saying...its one possibility.

re: #62 Petero1818

maybe the resulting shortage of women, and the resulting increase in single (and angry) men. Just saying...its one possibility.

as a result of gay marriage? I think I missed something.

re: #36 Walter L. Newton

Evidently a mistake on his part... so, what does this prove?

He thought there would be no math.

re: #63 eastsider

as a result of gay marriage? I think I missed something.

No, as a result of polygamy.

re: #60 HoosierHoops

You forgot:

Shake it.
Turn the power on.
Make sure everything is plugged in.
Call a more tech savvy friend and ply them with beer AFTER they fix the problem.

re: #14 rwdflynavy

So tomorrow I will fly my last flight during my command tour. This will most likely be my last flight in the Navy...Kinda sad...

My plan is to fly to Tampa for lunch and then back to Jacksonville. Should be fun.

Thank you, Sir.

William (ex-ground pounder NCO)

re: #42 Alouette

I have a Netflix movie "Hangover"

Is it worth watching for some mindless entertainment?

If you don't watch it you are a retard (emphasis on the second syllable)...

re: #63 eastsider

as a result of gay marriage? I think I missed something.

//oh come on, they tell us all the time they don't need us :)

re: #63 eastsider

as a result of gay marriage? I think I missed something.

No , Polygamy

re: #60 HoosierHoops

turn everything off, close your eyes and use the force

re: #66 Obdicut

You forgot:

Shake it.
Turn the power on.
Make sure everything is plugged in.
Call a more tech savvy friend and ply them with beer AFTER they fix the problem.

The bigger the hammer..The better the job

re: #14 rwdflynavy

(((rwdflynavy)))

re: #63 eastsider

You missed a couple polygamy comments.

re: #45 eastsider

Saw this on digg:

[Link: tampabay.com...]

An interesting exercise might be to take a story of American, far right religious/teabagger nuttery, and do some replacements. Sub out "God" for "Allah," Geographic names of Texas/Utah/Alabama with Iran/Afghanistan/Yemen, and names like John/Michael for Muhammed/Achmed.

Then plant the story at a crazy site in the nutosphere and watch them hate on the infidels without knowing its one of their own.

The similarities are jarring.

That reminds me of the failed attempt by NBC to show how racists NASCAR fans were by planing muslims in the crowd and film racist reaction. Nothing happened and NBC had egg on their faces.

re: #65 Tigger2005
re: #70 Petero1818

Oh I missed that. Yeah I think polygamy is the best counterargument to those who support gay marriage. Because it has (theoretically) consenting adults involved.

re: #34 Racer X

And a Unicorn. I heard there were unicorns.

Homosexual, polygamous unicorns?

re: #21 NJDhockeyfan

Obama: Premiums Will Decrease 3000% So You Should Get A Raise When H'care Is Passed

And, how much more will my taxes go up?

Apparently, the campaign is not over.

3000%. Alrighty, then.

WHAT ABOUT POLYANDRY???

re: #77 MandyManners

Homosexual, polygamous unicorns?

eww no, way too much cholesterol...

Time for my beauty sleep!

Nighty Night Lizardkind!

re: #78 MandyManners

And, how much more will my taxes go up?

how much you got?

re: #75 NJDhockeyfan

That reminds me of the failed attempt by NBC to show how racists NASCAR fans were by planing muslims in the crowd and film racist reaction. Nothing happened and NBC had egg on their faces.

Interesting. Well, a non-reaction would be as educational and informative as much as a reaction. I'd love for that hypothesis to be disproved.

I suspect you might find a difference between the way people interact in public and on the internet.

re: #34 Racer X

And a Unicorn. I heard there were unicorns.

Yes and they fart rainbows.

re: #80 MandyManners

Fair is fair.

re: #31 Rightwingconspirator

It is a consenting adult alternative lifestyle. The burden is to prove why not. If we are going to set aside all prejudice anyway.

What if the "core" spouse is ill. Which spouse gets to determine medical care?

re: #80 MandyManners

WHAT ABOUT POLYANDRY???

Don't yell about it, you'll get horse.

re: #78 MandyManners

And, how much more will my taxes go up?

Who cares? Break you arm, go to the doctor and collect a check!

Any man who can afford more than one wife is rich.

Any man who wants more than one wife is a fool.

/swamprat

re: #74 Rightwingconspirator

I'm confused. Are some posters in favor of legalizing polygamy?

re: #75 NJDhockeyfan

That reminds me of the failed attempt by NBC to show how racists NASCAR fans were by planing muslims in the crowd and film racist reaction. Nothing happened and NBC had egg on their faces.

The funny thing is, if you have ever been to a race they're focused on beer and who's in front. It's also loud. If the muslims didn't have a bomb or try to take someone's drink, no one would notice.

re: #78 MandyManners

3100%

I had my thrill for the night. Lucky 7 and number 9 number 9 number 9. Bye Bye.

3-Time Iditarod Champ Still Leads the Way Without Pot

As this story went live, a pretty mantastic dude named Lance Mackey and a dozen of his sled dogs were working their way across the frozen wilderness of Alaska's Seward Peninsula toward the finish line of the Iditarod, easily one of the toughest races on earth.

Mackey is in the lead again, a position the three-time champ has become used to, but this year there's something missing for Lance, namely a few sweet little puffs of performance-enhancing marijuana.

For 2010, an explicit ban on dope on the trail is finally being enforced. And it's all because of Mackey, an admitted marijuana user. We caught up with Mackey and a few of his competitors at the start of the race to talk about Mary Jane's last stand in the Last Frontier.

re: #87 MandyManners

Pre nups?

re: #88 jaunte

Don't yell about it, you'll get horse.

According to Hayworth, that's right down the road.

re: #94 Plato

I had my thrill for the night. Lucky 7 and number 9 number 9 number 9. Bye Bye.

Excuse me! Why the heck are there pizza boxes on my seat?

Is that a beer stain? You guys dripped... hell no that isn't a drip, thats a pour, you guys poured beer on my seat?

It took me three days to get the damn nacho sauce out of there last week, I can still smell the kerosene. Do you know how hard I had to scrub to get the cheese out? Now I have to get rid of beer stain, and I'll bet its something stupid like Coors Lite.

That's it people, the plastic cover is going back on the chair, and I'm unplugging the XBox.

Since my chair is wet I'm going to need another place to sit.

re: #78 MandyManners

And, how much more will my taxes go up?

less than premiums have been rising over the last decade (roughly doubling, and forecasted to continue to rise).

And oh by the way, taxes are lower now than they ever were under Reagan. There's room to increase them, at least on the top 1-5% of earners (35% marginal rate now vs 50% under Reagan).

re: #95 Racer X

3-Time Iditarod Champ Still Leads the Way Without Pot

As this story went live, a pretty mantastic dude named Lance Mackey and a dozen of his sled dogs were working their way across the frozen wilderness of Alaska's Seward Peninsula toward the finish line of the Iditarod, easily one of the toughest races on earth.

Mackey is in the lead again, a position the three-time champ has become used to, but this year there's something missing for Lance, namely a few sweet little puffs of performance-enhancing marijuana.

For 2010, an explicit ban on dope on the trail is finally being enforced. And it's all because of Mackey, an admitted marijuana user. We caught up with Mackey and a few of his competitors at the start of the race to talk about Mary Jane's last stand in the Last Frontier.

pot is a well known performance enhancer

re: #97 MandyManners

According to Hayworth, that's right down the road.

It would behoove him to find another argument.

re: #96 Rightwingconspirator

Pre nups?

What if the other spouses file for an injunction?!

re: #100 eastsider

less than premiums have been rising over the last decade (roughly doubling, and forecasted to continue to rise).

And oh by the way, taxes are lower now than they ever were under Reagan. There's room to increase them, at least on the top 1-5% of earners (35% marginal rate now vs 50% under Reagan).

yeah well that is great if you have a job...

re: #101 albusteve

pot is a well known performance enhancer

Tell me about it.

re: #91 sandbox

I'm confused. Are some posters in favor of legalizing polygamy?

No, you're just confused.

re: #95 Racer X

3-Time Iditarod Champ Still Leads the Way Without Pot

As this story went live, a pretty mantastic dude named Lance Mackey and a dozen of his sled dogs were working their way across the frozen wilderness of Alaska's Seward Peninsula toward the finish line of the Iditarod, easily one of the toughest races on earth.

Mackey is in the lead again, a position the three-time champ has become used to, but this year there's something missing for Lance, namely a few sweet little puffs of performance-enhancing marijuana.

For 2010, an explicit ban on dope on the trail is finally being enforced. And it's all because of Mackey, an admitted marijuana user. We caught up with Mackey and a few of his competitors at the start of the race to talk about Mary Jane's last stand in the Last Frontier.

I wonder how Scott Palin is doing in the race this year?

re: #102 jaunte

It would behoove him to find another argument.

Yes, that mane argument is bogus.

We're talking polygamy? Cool.

I vote for the marriage types in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

re: #100 eastsider

less than premiums have been rising over the last decade (roughly doubling, and forecasted to continue to rise).

And oh by the way, taxes are lower now than they ever were under Reagan. There's room to increase them, at least on the top 1-5% of earners (35% marginal rate now vs 50% under Reagan).

I'm always surprised when people, without blinking, say that it's ok to take over 1/2 of what a person makes. Over half. Taken. To give to other people. And that's just fine, in some people's book.

re: #102 jaunte

It would behoove him to find another argument.

It can be tough to oppose gay Mare-age.

[snicker]

re: #109 b_sharp

Those contained incest, dude.

Polygamy is definitely a complicated issue. Personally I think we're better off without it. I think monogamy recognizes the worth and dignity of the individual...it recognizes that each partner in the marriage deserves the full love, attention, and devotion of the other. I think that, in general, it makes us better people. But, once again, this is not sufficient reason to disallow it. The Constitution states that we have the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." If consenting adults want to enter into unequal partnerships, into relationships where they are devalued as individuals, is that not their choice?

But, the Constitution doesn't deny society the right to make laws protecting the common good or common welfare, even if that involves restricting individual liberties. And the expensive legal issues and complexities that polygamy would inevitably produce would definitely be detrimental to society.

Plumber. Electrician. Computer geek. Auto-mechanic. Doctor. And, an attorney to keep them all in line.

Inglourious Basterds -Slate Clapper

re: #91 sandbox

I'm confused. Are some posters in favor of legalizing polygamy?

Yes.

I am. As long as it isn't attached to religion.

let me tell you how it will be...
heres one for you nineteen for me...

What about the kids in a poly-union? What about their inheritance? Won't it be watered down significantly? Won't it allow real property to be busted up into smaller and smaller parcels?

Bogart!

re: #112 Obdicut

Those contained incest, dude.

Not that I remember.

re: #116 b_sharp

Yes.

I am. As long as it isn't attached to religion.

I am as well...to hell with religionists

re: #117 brookly red

let me tell you how it will be...
heres one for you nineteen for me...

Taxation and polygamy in one post!

re: #91 sandbox

I think it naturally follows the concepts behind gay marriage, and consenting adults. The concept of society tolerating various human relationships. I observe considerable prejudice on the matter, similar to what we have seen on gays.

I am more in favor of chasing that sort of prejudice out of our culture rather than polygamy/polyandry (that's for you Mandy) than endorsing any of those lifestyles.

re: #110 cliffster

I'm always surprised when people, without blinking, say that it's ok to take over 1/2 of what a person makes. Over half. Taken. To give to other people. And that's just fine, in some people's book.

i'm always surprised when people don't understand marginal tax rates. they don't take 50% of everything, just 50% of every dollar you make after the first $375,000

re: #92 Unakite

The funny thing is, if you have ever been to a race they're focused on beer and who's in front. It's also loud. If the muslims didn't have a bomb or try to take someone's drink, no one would notice.

Ah'm rootin' fer Dale!

ALLAHU ACKBAR!!

Yeah! Wut you said! I'll watch while you go to the snackbar! I'll tell you wut happened!

Camera2, can we fake a voiceover or something? To heck with it. Yeah. Tell me when I get back. I need a beer.

Hey! If yer flyin' I'm buyin'!

re: #118 MandyManners

What about the kids in a poly-union? What about their inheritance? Won't it be watered down significantly? Won't it allow real property to be busted up into smaller and smaller parcels?

inheritance? ha ha ha ha ...

re: #114 MandyManners

Plumber. Electrician. Computer geek. Auto-mechanic. Doctor. And, an attorney to keep them all in line.

Accountant.

re: #119 Racer X

Bogart!

Bogart!

re: #104 brookly red

yeah well that is great if you have a job...

which you probably do, if you're in the top 5% of earners.

re: #117 brookly red

let me tell you how it will be...
heres one for you nineteen for me...

heh

Be sure to read all the way to the end:

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for peanuts
Anyway!
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his __.

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.
Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid.

Put these words
Upon his tomb,
Taxes drove me
to my doom...'

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge T ax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Ser vice FeeTax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Ta

re: #116 b_sharp

How can society draw that distinction? If polygamy is allowed, then it has to be for everyone. I assume you were referring to sharia law, where the man can take up to 4 wives.

Folks, poly-unions can save you a lot of money.

re: #124 eastsider

i'm always surprised when people don't understand marginal tax rates. they don't take 50% of everything, just 50% of every dollar you make after the first $375,000

And if you make $375,001, then that's a good argument. Quickly loses validity though.

re: #118 MandyManners

There are practical challenges. But the kids would inherit from 3 rather than two.

re: #122 MandyManners

Taxation and polygamy in one post!

Taxaplygamy??

re: #122 MandyManners

Taxation and polygamy in one post!

/I assure you I am not a Saudi... perish that thought silly female.

re: #131 Taqyia2Me

Excellent.

re: #118 MandyManners

What about the kids in a poly-union? What about their inheritance? Won't it be watered down significantly? Won't it allow real property to be busted up into smaller and smaller parcels?

Right. There are just too many potential legal nightmares involved in allowing polygamy...for the individuals involved (including the children) and for society as a whole. I think this is a more than sufficient argument against legalizing it.

Gay marriage, on the other hand, is no more complicated, legally, than hetero marriage.

re: #117 brookly red

let me tell you how it will be...
heres one for you nineteen for me...

You'll love this one:

re: #134 cliffster

And if you make $375,001, then that's a good argument. Quickly loses validity though.

Yes, we should shed tears for the poor poor people making $5M who pay $2.2M in taxes. I'm sure they have a tough time getting by on $2.8M.

re: #135 Rightwingconspirator

There are practical challenges. But the kids would inherit from 3 rather than two.

Each child's pie would be divided by the number of the children in each union.

re: #109 b_sharp

TANSTAAFL

re: #139 Tigger2005

Right. There are just too many potential legal nightmares involved in allowing polygamy...for the individuals involved (including the children) and for society as a whole. I think this is a more than sufficient argument against legalizing it.

Gay marriage, on the other hand, is no more complicated, legally, than hetero marriage.

that's what lawyers are for...if I want three wives it's none of your business

re: #144 albusteve

that's what lawyers are for...if I want three wives it's none of your business

What Duke says, so shall be!

re: #141 eastsider

Yes, we should shed tears for the poor poor people making $5M who pay $2.2M in taxes. I'm sure they have a tough time getting by on $2.8M.

They didn't fleece all those poor people just to "get by".

re: #139 Tigger2005

Right. There are just too many potential legal nightmares involved in allowing polygamy...for the individuals involved (including the children) and for society as a whole. I think this is a more than sufficient argument against legalizing it.

Gay marriage, on the other hand, is no more complicated, legally, than hetero marriage.

Has any nation which allows homosexuals to marry been challenged by Muslims who want polygamous marriage?

re: #125 swamprat

Ah'm rootin' fer Dale!

ALLAHU ACKBAR!!

Yeah! Wut you said! I'll watch while you go to the snackbar! I'll tell you wut happened!

Camera2, can we fake a voiceover or something? To heck with it. Yeah. Tell me when I get back. I need a beer.

Hey! If yer flyin' I'm buyin'!

Hee. ALLAHU SNACKBAR!

re: #145 Varek Raith

What Duke says, so shall be!

"your face, your ass...what's the difference?"

re: #138 MandyManners

Excellent.

Thank you!
Lovely Rosie O'Donnell photo, btw.
/
( I am still looking for a Calvin kneeling at the Crucifix avatar)

re: #141 eastsider

Yes, we should shed tears for the poor poor people making $5M who pay $2.2M in taxes. I'm sure they have a tough time getting by on $2.8M.

Yup. Saw that screw-the-rich comment coming right down the road. Like I said, it's mind-boggling that people think like that.

re: #142 MandyManners

Well sure but that also works against large families.

Hey kids, earn your own cash!//
Post recession wisdom.

Chef.

re: #150 Taqyia2Me

Thank you!
Lovely Rosie O'Donnell photo, btw.
/
( I am still looking for a Calvin kneeling at the Crucifix avatar)

It's not Rosie.

It's Eleanor Rigby, she's a witch!
She hates us!
She's ugly!

re: #147 MandyManners

Oh that is so going to happen! Great point.

re: #151 cliffster

Yup. Saw that screw-the-rich comment coming right down the road. Like I said, it's mind-boggling that people think like that.

If you could re-do the federal tax system, how would you do it?

re: #152 Rightwingconspirator

Well sure but that also works against large families.

Hey kids, earn your own cash!//
Post recession wisdom.

Imagine seven wives and each has seven kids.

(if you drive a car, car;) - Ill tax the street;
(if you try to sit, sit;) - Ill tax your seat;
(if you get too cold, cold;) - Ill tax the heat;
(if you take a walk, walk;) - I'll tax your feet.

la la la ...

re: #154 MandyManners

It's not Rosie.

The back isn't hairy enough.

Lakers vs. Golden State in 25 minutes...
The Team I hate the most against the Team I grew up with...I can't wait..
Who wants popcorn?

re: #80 MandyManners

WHAT ABOUT POLYANDRY???

Polyandry is not a race.

It's a series of tubes.

re: #156 Rightwingconspirator

Oh that is so going to happen! Great point.

But, has it happened already?

re: #144 albusteve

that's what lawyers are for...if I want three wives it's none of your business

Even divorce in monogamous marriages often has costs for society as a whole. Those costs would be multiplied exponentially with the legalization of polygamous marriage/divorce. You don't think society should have any say in that?

re: #151 cliffster

Yup. Saw that screw-the-rich comment coming right down the road. Like I said, it's mind-boggling that people think like that.

If they can help pay for my health insurance, fine with me.

re: #157 eastsider

If you could re-do the federal tax system, how would you do it?

that would surely get me banned...

re: #158 MandyManners

Imagine seven wives and each has seven kids.

/and they all get welfare...

re: #13 sandbox

I think the argument goes--if we redefine marriage to allow for gay marriage, then why not allow for polygamy? I don't have an answer.

I don't have an answer either, but I will say that 'redefining' marriage to include same-sex marriage requires nothing more than allowing any two people regardless of gender to enter into a marriage contract. Legally speaking, polygamy would be much more complicated.

Will we get there eventually? I don't know, but I also don't see that possibility as a reason not to move on same-sex marriage now.

re: #120 b_sharp

You're right, sorry. It's other books that he endorses incest in, though i think he hints at it (in the child-raising part) of TMIAHM.

I like Heinlen, but a lot of his stuff is just half-baked socio-political philosophizing that can be disproved on the back of an envelope.

re: #132 sandbox

How can society draw that distinction? If polygamy is allowed, then it has to be for everyone. I assume you were referring to sharia law, where the man can take up to 4 wives.

I'm talking about any agreement that is influenced by any religion. The partners have to be adult, they have to be capable of making a decision, all partners have to have equal rights and the contract has to be agreed to by all parties.

The idea that marriage has to be one woman and one man is religious nonsense. We've grown beyond the need for a god, we now choose to have one or not, so we've hopefully grown beyond the need for an absolute figurehead to determine how we interact.

re: #158 MandyManners

I would also imagine a very tired hubby! But yeah that would be tough.

re: #132 sandbox

How can society draw that distinction? If polygamy is allowed, then it has to be for everyone. I assume you were referring to sharia law, where the man can take up to 4 wives.

I think you're trying to make a point, but it's a non sequitur. Slow down and make your argument.

Hi everyone. I realize that the concept of "raising taxes" sound heretical on its face. But the fact of the matter is that tax rates are lower now than they have been for an incredibly long time, and the federal government is into some very expensive activities that aren't going away. I'm not saying we should go Greek and have austerity measures, I'm just saying that the concept of raising taxes shouldn't mean instant political death and instant lgf-mockery.

And yes, of course, reigning in spending must be a priority as well.

re: #154 MandyManners

It's not Rosie.

But KSM always reminded me of her!

re: #167 brookly red

/and they all get welfare...

Well, I was talking about inheritance and how it could affect the value of real property. But, I do get your point.

re: #16 Walter L. Newton

Please... don't anyone fudge your census forms. That information is very important to the country, and it really is your civic duty to be as honest and forthright as you can...

Read a very funny column during the last census--a woman heard that African Americans were undercounted, and decided to help out by listing her household as AA. The kids were amused, but understanding.

re: #174 Taqyia2Me

But KSM always reminded me of her!

KSM and Rosie O'Donnell have about the exact same level of courage, imho.

re: #164 Tigger2005

Even divorce in monogamous marriages often has costs for society as a whole. Those costs would be multiplied exponentially with the legalization of polygamous marriage/divorce. You don't think society should have any say in that?

no, mind your own business...if the feds can subsidize single parent families, they can figure a way to deal with poly marriges...I won't even ask you what you mean by costs

re: #175 MandyManners

Well, I was talking about inheritance and how it could affect the value of real property. But, I do get your point.

property? like real estate? or cash reserves... I would not count on anyone inheriting anything but debt.

What's with the polygamy discussion? Just more reason for the government to stay out of the business of marriage to begin with. Whose business is it who I want to be partners with? Other than my partner(s).

Sonofabitch!

I'm gonno go Veg now. Damn cute little lamb.

re: #173 eastsider

Hi everyone. I realize that the concept of "raising taxes" sound heretical on its face. But the fact of the matter is that tax rates are lower now than they have been for an incredibly long time, and the federal government is into some very expensive activities that aren't going away. I'm not saying we should go Greek and have austerity measures, I'm just saying that the concept of raising taxes shouldn't mean instant political death and instant lgf-mockery.

And yes, of course, reigning in spending must be a priority as well.

As long as those taxes are mostly frittered away, raising taxes will continue to be mocked by me. Moreover, I don't trust government that much.

Of course, it won't be 3000% right away. That is the projected rate at the end of the 5 year plan, comrade!

/ducks

re: #175 MandyManners

Well, I was talking about inheritance and how it could affect the value of real property. But, I do get your point.

We get to still own land?

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

Read a very funny column during the last census--a woman heard that African Americans were undercounted, and decided to help out by listing her household as AA. The kids were amused, but understanding.

I see they have other as a choice of race on the Census form..
Perhaps they should have included undecided also.
/

re: #173 eastsider

Hi everyone. I realize that the concept of "raising taxes" sound heretical on its face. But the fact of the matter is that tax rates are lower now than they have been for an incredibly long time, and the federal government is into some very expensive activities that aren't going away. I'm not saying we should go Greek and have austerity measures, I'm just saying that the concept of raising taxes shouldn't mean instant political death and instant lgf-mockery.

And yes, of course, reigning in spending must be a priority as well.

Through in REAL corruption busting, REAL non-partisan corruption busting, and then let's talk!

re: #177 Taqyia2Me

KSM and Rosie O'Donnell have about the exact same level of courage, imho.

I disagree. KSM is evil but he would prefer to die than grovel. Put Rosie in the same situation and she'd beg for mercy.

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

As long as those taxes are mostly frittered away, raising taxes will continue to be mocked by me. Moreover, I don't trust government that much.

do you trust them more or less than for-profit health insurance companies?

re: #179 brookly red

property? like real estate? or cash reserves... I would not count on anyone inheriting anything but debt.

Yep. Real property is real estate.

re: #62 Petero1818

maybe the resulting shortage of women, and the resulting increase in single (and angry) men. Just saying...its one possibility.

Well, first, you're assuming that 'polygamy' always means 'polygyny'.

Secondly, there is no reason to think that, even if polygamous marriages were given legal recognition in the U.S., they would ever be popular enough to create some sort of gender imbalance.

re: #151 cliffster

Yup. Saw that screw-the-rich comment coming right down the road. Like I said, it's mind-boggling that people think like that.

That they should be asked to pay their share?

When 90% of the wealth is held by 10% of the population, 10% of the population should pay the most tax.

Incredible pictures of giant ice sculptures carved by sea water and polar winds

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

I disagree. KSM is evil but he would prefer to die than grovel. Put Rosie in the same situation and she'd beg for mercy.

Good point.

re: #186 Taqyia2Me

Through in REAL corruption busting, REAL non-partisan corruption busting, and then let's talk!

deal.

re: #189 MandyManners

Yep. Real property is real estate.

unless the state wants it for "the common good" then you are shit outta luck.

re: #157 eastsider

If you could re-do the federal tax system, how would you do it?

Fair would work.

ahh charles posting from the i-phone...
loving mine!iv'e had three smart phones before this one,(verizon cripples them mercilessly)this one delivers the goods!

re: #172 Unakite

I will try again. With the influx of Muslims to western countries, under sharia law ( which is what observant Muslims follow), the man is allowed to have up to four wives. So if we are redefining marriage to include same sex marriage, then why, they will ask, can't it also include sharia type polygamous marriages?

re: #34 Racer X

And a Unicorn. I heard there were unicorns.

You can depend on the Unicorns.

It's OK t love your bicycle.
Not OK to Love your bicycle

re: #184 swamprat

We get to still own land?

That's the rumor.

re: #110 cliffster

I'm always surprised when people, without blinking, say that it's ok to take over 1/2 of what a person makes. Over half. Taken. To give to other people. And that's just fine, in some people's book.

'To give to other people'? To use to keep society running.

re: #184 swamprat

We get to still own land?

as long as the taxes you pay on it are greater than what it can be sold for...

re: #196 Unakite

Fair would work.

Don't get me started on Paulian economics. You guys gotta give up the nonsense and get back to reality.

re: #192 Racer X

Incredible pictures of giant ice sculptures carved by sea water and polar winds

Awesome. Simply

re: #180 cliffster

What's with the polygamy discussion? Just more reason for the government to stay out of the business of marriage to begin with. Whose business is it who I want to be partners with? Other than my partner(s).

Well, most of the religious right's arguments against gay marriage are absurd (i.e. it will lead to people marrying horses, kids, or dead people). But polygamy is different. If we allow same-sex marriage, is there then really any case against allowing polygamous marriage?

re: #195 brookly red

unless the state wants it for "the common good" then you are shit outta luck.

Thanks, Supremes!

re: #180 cliffster
re: #175 MandyManners

We can have poly-easter once a year, a holiday for bad suits.

re: #118 MandyManners

What about the kids in a poly-union? What about their inheritance? Won't it be watered down significantly? Won't it allow real property to be busted up into smaller and smaller parcels?

One reason why, even in societies where polygamy is permitted, it's not wildly common to have many spouses.

re: #188 eastsider

do you trust them more or less than for-profit health insurance companies?

Less. For profit may be an asshole, but a predictable asshole.

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

sorry when the govt'wants more than 50% of what i make it's time to re-boot.

re: #197 Boondock St. Bender

ahh charles posting from the i-phone...
loving mine!iv'e had three smart phones before this one,(verizon cripples them mercilessly)this one delivers the goods!

My World Edition Blackberry just Sucks rendering LGF.. It's strictly laptop here for me..I'm running a sweet little dual core right now...

re: #200 Racer X

It's OK t love your bicycle.
Not OK to Love your bicycle

It's a Raleigh, you wouldn't understand.

re: #6 Tigger2005

However, I think a strong argument can be made that legalizing polygamy would create too many legal issues and complexities, for the individuals involved in the marriages and for society as a whole. Divorces in polygamous marriages would be legal nightmares. I think the case can be made that allowing polygamous marriage would be against society's best interests.

Evening all.

I disagree, at least on this argument.

What legal nightmares? Contested monogamous marriages can be legal nightmares, except to lawyers of course. Why would a polygamous one be worse just because the pot is divided up between more people, which comes down in the end to simple arithmetic? In truth, we have the equivalent of polygamous marriage everywhere when half of children are born out of wedlock and perhaps 80% in some sectors, with multiple fathers/mothers within a household.

Why does "marriage" constitute a social threat when we don't seem to think doing the same thing without marriage is hunky dory?

Take children out of the equation and it becomes nothing more than a legal contract between a group of adults. Happens all the time in business.

No, my main opposition against polygamy is that historically it is a major method for men to dominate women with the collusion of the law, and those who would mostly take advantages of it, if allowed, would do so for exactly that reason.

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

Less. For profit may be an asshole, but a predictable asshole.

I trust corporations as far as I can throw the Feds and vice versa.

re: #165 Walter L. Newton

If they can help pay for my health insurance, fine with me.

I'm with you...oh, wait, who's paying for my health insurance??
//being stuck in the middle sucks.

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

What you can depend on a rent-seeking company to do is to rent-seek, though.

A company that is for-profit and has a naturally broken market is not going to be trustable without a lot of oversight. Like the private prisons.

To me, the amount of regulation that will be necessary to get private insurers to actually supply the market would be so onerous that there's really not much point in not simply making it single-payer.

But I know you've heard that from me often before, so I'm just putting it down again for the record, so to speak.

re: #196 Unakite

Fair would work.

can you elaborate? fair is sadly a subjective term.

re: #164 Tigger2005

Even divorce in monogamous marriages often has costs for society as a whole. Those costs would be multiplied exponentially with the legalization of polygamous marriage/divorce. You don't think society should have any say in that?

Some of the costs suffered in the breakup of a monogamous marriage will not happen in a larger group because the remaining members can take up the slack.

You seem to be assuming that if one or two people in a polygamous marriage decide to leave the entire group will break up. Why would that be the case?

BTW, I am not advocating marriages like we see where there is a charismatic leader who choses who he wants, adult or not and children and women are abused, so get all ideas of Mormon, or Muslim, or even archaic Christian marriage systems out of your mind.

re: #211 Boondock St. Bender

sorry when the govt'wants more than 50% of what i make it's time to re-boot.

How...vague. Care to explain what this "reboot" involves?

re: #196 Unakite

It wouldn't.

It's deeply regressive.

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

'To give to other people'? To use to keep society running.

Interesting argument. But, if the goal was to "keep society running", you could whack quite a few zeros off the national budget right away.

re: #212 HoosierHoops

That was my last phone(exellent for e-mail and related things,but yes the browser was painfully slow.

re: #216 Unakite

I'm with you...oh, wait, who's paying for my health insurance??
//being stuck in the middle sucks.

I'm not sure if you were kidding or not, but I'm serious. I don't care who is paying for my health care, as long as someone is. And I'm not worried about your health care.

Not anymore. It's every man for themselves.

re: #211 Boondock St. Bender

Ah, the magic of round numbers. For some reason we think they're important.

re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist

One reason why, even in societies where polygamy is permitted, it's not wildly common to have many spouses.

That's a good point. Most likely even if polygamous marriage is allowed, the vast majority of people will not choose it. A relationship with one person can be confusing enough...

re: #110 cliffster

I'm always surprised when people, without blinking, say that it's ok to take over 1/2 of what a person makes. Over half. Taken. To give to other people. And that's just fine, in some people's book.

To give to other people? like soldiers?

re: #222 cliffster

Interesting argument. But, if the goal was to "keep society running", you could whack quite a few zeros off the national budget right away.

Heh, more vagueness! How, exactly, would you go about this?

And Charles, I hope you have an enjoyable visit with family!

re: #211 Boondock St. Bender

sorry when the govt'wants more than 50% of what i make it's time to re-boot.

Quite Concur.

re: #226 Tigger2005

That's a good point. Most likely even if polygamous marriage is allowed, the vast majority of people will not choose it. A relationship with one person can be confusing enough...

Imagine trying to keep up with how four people want to arrange the kitchen.

Wow, some people are really into this polygamy thing. I wonder if their spouse knows about this? Would they argue as passionately if their wife/husband was at the table with them???

re: #230 Dark_Falcon

What about when it reaches 49.99%?

What about when a person has to spend 50% of what they make on health insurance?

love the debate, continue another time. Cheers everyone.

re: #228 Varek Raith

Heh, more vagueness! How, exactly, would you go about this?

Vague? You want me to put together a spreadsheet for you?

re: #214 Naso Tang

In truth, we have the equivalent of polygamous marriage everywhere when half of children are born out of wedlock and perhaps 80% in some sectors, with multiple fathers/mothers within a household..

Mostly agree, especially with your points about the uses of polygamy historically to dominate women, but one small caveat-- I don't think we have the equivalent of polygamy or polyandry in the example you give so much as we have serial monogamy.

re: #198 sandbox

I will try again. With the influx of Muslims to western countries, under sharia law ( which is what observant Muslims follow), the man is allowed to have up to four wives. So if we are redefining marriage to include same sex marriage, then why, they will ask, can't it also include sharia type polygamous marriages?

What proportion of Muslim men in the world today have more than one spouse at a time?

re: #232 cliffster

Wow, some people are really into this polygamy thing. I wonder if their spouse knows about this? Would they argue as passionately if their wife/husband was at the table with them???

Does anybody watch Big Love on HBO with the Morman with the 3 wives?

If they throw a VAT on top of all the taxes we already pay, I, for one, will certainly bitch a lot more.

re: #215 Varek Raith

I trust corporations as far as I can throw the Feds and vice versa.

I still regard private corps as the lesser of two evils.

re: #232 cliffster

Wow, some people are really into this polygamy thing. I wonder if their spouse knows about this? Would they argue as passionately if their wife/husband was at the table with them???

If you could rent a six-pack over the weekend...

re: #232 cliffster

Polygamy would be such a goddamn headache. My fiancee really wouldn't oppose it on principle, but both of us would oppose it on terms of practicality.

I don't know anyone who wants polygamy for non-religious reasons, actually.

re: #13 sandbox

I think the argument goes--if we redefine marriage to allow for gay marriage, then why not allow for polygamy? I don't have an answer.

An uncertain marriage law is a national calamity.
-- J. P. Senn

re: #211 Boondock St. Bender

sorry when the govt'wants more than 50% of what i make it's time to re-boot.

OK, go ahead and re-boot. But the 'given to other people' business annoys me.

re: #235 cliffster

Vague? You want me to put together a spreadsheet for you?

How about something??? This just sounds like platitudes, to me.

re: #227 EastSider

teachers, doctors, police, fire, coastguard...

highways, byways. waterways, safe water, clean air, safe food, safe drugs...

re: #220 Varek Raith

time to re-think the tax code.middle class (which is what i am)should never pay anything approaching 50%.if thats the case, time for govt' to scale back it's spending.(my revolution would involve a ballot box...and lots of unemployed politicians.)

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

I still regard private corps as the lesser of two evils.

Get rid of the insurance companies anti-trust exempt status and we'll talk.
;)

...Netanyahu consulted Sunday with the forum of seven senior cabinet ministers over a list of demands that U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made in a telephone conversation Friday.

...Haaretz has learned that Clinton's list includes at least four steps the United States expects Netanyahu to carry out to restore confidence in bilateral relations and permit the resumption of peace talks with the Palestinians.

1. Investigate the process that led to the announcement of the Ramat Shlomo construction plans in the middle of Biden's visit. The Americans seek an official response from Israel on whether this was a bureaucratic mistake or a deliberate act carried out for political reasons. Already on Saturday night, Netanyahu announced the convening of a committee to look into the issue.

2. Reverse the decision by the Jerusalem District Planning and Building Committee to approve construction of 1,600 new housing units in Ramat Shlomo.

3. Make a substantial gesture toward the Palestinians enabling the renewal of peace talks. The Americans suggested that hundreds of Palestinian prisoners be released, that the Israel Defense Forces withdraw from additional areas of the West Bank and transfer them to Palestinian control, that the siege of the Gaza Strip be eased and further roadblocks in the West Bank be removed.

4. Issue an official declaration that the talks with the Palestinians, even indirect talks, will deal with all the conflict's core issues - borders, refugees, Jerusalem, security arrangements, water and settlements.

Was there a list of demands handed to the Palis?

re: #247 Boondock St. Bender

time to re-think the tax code.middle class (which is what i am)should never pay anything approaching 50%.if thats the case, time for govt' to scale back it's spending.(my revolution would involve a ballot box...and lots of unemployed politicians.)

Now, we're getting somewhere. Reduce spending where?

re: #225 Obdicut

not so much round numbers,but the govt. should never benefit from my labors more than i do...

re: #247 Boondock St. Bender

time to re-think the tax code.middle class (which is what i am)should never pay anything approaching 50%.if thats the case, time for govt' to scale back it's spending.(my revolution would involve a ballot box...and lots of unemployed politicians.)

In CA last week there was a news story about a guy who ran for public office and lost. Now he is collecting unemployment benefits. I cracked up.

re: #14 rwdflynavy

So tomorrow I will fly my last flight during my command tour. This will most likely be my last flight in the Navy...Kinda sad...

My plan is to fly to Tampa for lunch and then back to Jacksonville. Should be fun.

A naval aviator, you are? Hat's off to you, then. This is for you:

Yet once an aviator was in combat […] one found new doors, new tests, coming up with a mad rapidity. Your first day in combat…your first bombing run…first strafing run…the first time you're shot at…the first time you see a SAM…which also means the first time you dive for the deck straight into the maw of the flak cannons…the first time your ship gets dinged by flak…and the first time you _see someone else_ in
your own formation blown out of the sky over the North-and in many ways what an aviator saw with his own eyes was more terrible than the sudden unseen things happening to himself.

For Dowd and Garth Flint this came one day during a bombing run near the Iron Triangle. They were closing in on the target, barreling through the eternal cloud cover, unable to see even the ships in their own wing, when all at once a great livid ghost came drifting across their path, from left to right. It was an F-4. It had taken a direct hit, and smoke was pouring out of the cockpit. The smoke enveloped the fuselage in the most ghostly fashion. The pilot had cobbed it to starboard in a furious effort to reach the water, the gulf, to try to bail out where Navy rescue planes could reach them. In the blink of an eye the ghastly cartridge disappeared, swallowed up by the clouds. They would never make it. Dowd and Flint plowed on to
the target, following their wing command, even though the gunners below obviously had dead range on the formation. To have done otherwise would have been unthinkable.
-- Tom Wolfe, "The Truest Sport: Jousting With Sam and Charlie", 1975

Yikes!

The Internet grew 20 percent uglier last year, with terrorists and racists increasingly turning to social media sites such as Facebook and Twitter -- and targeting children, finds the 2010 Digital Hate Report.

re: #232 cliffster

Wow, some people are really into this polygamy thing. I wonder if their spouse knows about this? Would they argue as passionately if their wife/husband was at the table with them???

LOL.

I think for those arguing in favor it's more a matter of being passionate about individual liberty, not that they necessarily want several spouses themselves.