Great! Not only do the deceased get to vote, but now they have the right to legal counsel?

re: #1 Guanxi88

Great! Not only do the deceased get to vote, but now they have the right to legal counsel?

And he can have a trial by jury of his peers. Not sure how we can find out what 12 dead terrorists think, but we can work it out.

You have the right to be silent, oh wait, you already are!

"You have the right to remain dead..."

Why, he's just like Charles Manson.

re: #5 MandyManners

Why, he's just like Charles Manson.

Great, just another member of the family!

People who can predict the future like that are amazing.

I'll read Miranda to bin Laden, if I can piss on his corpse first.

It's rare for me to type these words, but here goes:

Holder is correct

"You have the right to remain silent, now use it!"

Would it be bad to go OT so early? I just saw a really disturbing Hamas video I want to share -- or should I keep that in the previous thread (doesn't seem to active anyway)

Personally I think the guy has already been turned into air pollution, all those bombed caves has to have had some success. Don't you think?

re: #11 Joo-LiZ

I'll just wait till another time. Nobody seems to be around.

re: #12 Dragon_Lady

Personally I think the guy has already been turned into air pollution, all those bombed caves has to have had some success. Don't you think?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's dead. We haven't seen him on video since 2003 or so.

This is all too true. Even during Bush's two terms there were protocols in place to take him out on confirmed sighting. There's even speculation that some of the original means were extreme and involved multiple heads up protocols with foreign nations that non nuclear ICBM's where headed somewhere.

I'm curious as to whether or not there will be a corpse left over. If he's found, my guess is that there will be remains spread out over a wide distance...

I think Holder meant to be speaking in past tense.

re: #15 Thanos

This is all too true. Even during Bush's two terms there were protocols in place to take him out on confirmed sighting. There's even speculation that some of the original means were extreme and involved multiple heads up protocols with foreign nations that non nuclear ICBM's where headed somewhere.

Well, that's one approach to the problem, I suppose. A bit drastic, but effective, to be sure.

That gave me a chuckle.

re: #17 cliffster

I think Holder meant to be speaking in past tense.

I look forward to the day were everything said by Holder will be from the past, not present.

Where is the fucking compassion? I can understand people have opposing ideological views on a complex subject like healthcare, but really...where is the fucking compassion? It's free, people. Compassion and empathy are free and they do not cause communism.

I'm ashamed to live in the same state as these assholes.

Tea Partiers Mock And Scorn Apparent Parkinson's Victim

re: #18 Guanxi88

Well, that's one approach to the problem, I suppose. A bit drastic, but effective, to be sure.

That was before we had Drones and hellfires in the region.

Attorney General Eric Holder is turning into quite a rambunctious cowboy

Maybe I've been in the West too long, but I'm OK with a cowboy in the White House.

re: #18 Guanxi88

Well, that's one approach to the problem, I suppose. A bit drastic, but effective, to be sure.

Rule 37 of the Mercenary Handbook: There is no 'overkill'. There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload'.

re: #21 Jeff In Ohio

wow

Holder claims to be crafting a fair wartime detention policy, but deflects tough questions by simply dismissing them as not possible. For instance, he refused to consider the idea that KSM could be found not guilty if put on trial in the US. But it's a real possibility, and OBL being captured alive is a real possibility (though in reality he's probably dead). I think the AG should answer these questions. "That could never happen" = famous last words.

A Hot Air poster twists himself in knots spinning the statement:

"So let me get this right… IF Bin Laden can’t be taken alive according to Holder, then why bother, in the first place, in continuing to search for him??? He obviously has no interest in what Bin Laden may say and he is throwing in the towel."

re: #22 Thanos

That was before we had Drones and hellfires in the region.

Not if the ACLU has anything to say about it...

re: #21 Jeff In Ohio

Yeah, that's pretty bad. It's a result of the Tea Party mentality. They are resisting fascism and secret government plots to destroy the country. There's not much room for compassion with stakes that high.

re: #25 Thanos

wow

Yeah, that was my first thought. But I gotta wonder how the Feds are going to make sure there is no B.S. going on behind the scene. Every time the Feds start something with a pile of money, they some how screw it up and we manage to get stuck with the bag. Kinda makes me a bit nervous, and I really could use the med coverage.

re: #28 Aceofwhat?

Not if the ACLU has anything to say about it...

Yep?

Achmed the Dead Terrorist does not think this is funny.

re: #26 KingKenrod

Holder claims to be crafting a fair wartime detention policy, but deflects tough questions by simply dismissing them as not possible. For instance, he refused to consider the idea that KSM could be found not guilty if put on trial in the US. But it's a real possibility, and OBL being captured alive is a real possibility (though in reality he's probably dead). I think the AG should answer these questions. "That could never happen" = famous last words.

Meh. I thought the "KSM will be found guilty" was a gaffe, but i have no problem with him endorsing the policy of ending OBL's existence without a trial, in the unlikely event that OBL still exists. Seems different to me.

re: #32 Cato the Elder

Achmed the Dead Terrorist does not think this is funny.

[Video]

"I KEEL YOU!"

re: #21 Jeff In Ohio

Where is the fucking compassion?

There is none from the "I got mine, fuck you, not one more dime of taxes" people.

Hopefully they will keep getting caught on tape doing shit like that and more and more of the American public will become disgusted with them.

OBL's head in a satchel, delivered to the President's desk in the dead of night by a Special Forces helicopter, is the only contact with our legal system he deserves.

Killing Bin Laden upon confirmation of it really being him is exactly the right thing to do. The only people to be concerned about would be uninvolved people in the same room/cave/ or madrasa. Before Al Qaeda was on the run, capture made sense. Now, not in the least.

re: #31 cliffster

Yep?

Joy, another frivolous law suit. I wonder how much money they spend on tying up the courts every year.

re: #32 Cato the Elder

Achmed the Dead Terrorist does not think this is funny.

[Video]

SILENCE!

I KILL YOU!

re: #31 cliffster

Yep?

WTH?
I thought the ACLU handled free speech issues.

re: #21 Jeff In Ohio

Hoping that was staged. How horrible.

In related news, the ACLU has sued the government for sensitive information on drone attacks, in a stated bid to assess the "wisdom and morality" of this tactic.

"The government's use of drones to conduct targeted killings raises complicated questions – not only legal questions, but policy and moral questions as well,” said Jameel Jaffer, director of the ACLU National Security Project. “These kinds of questions ought to be discussed and debated publicly, not resolved secretly behind closed doors. While the Obama administration may legitimately withhold intelligence information as well as sensitive information about military strategy, it should disclose basic information about the scope of the drone program, the legal basis for the program and the civilian casualties that have resulted from the program.”

re: #32 Cato the Elder

Achmed rocks!

re: #2 EmmmieG

And he can have a trial by jury of his peers. Not sure how we can find out what 12 dead terrorists think, but we can work it out.

This guy can be on the jury.

re: #38 Dragon_Lady

Joy, another frivolous law suit. I wonder how much money they spend on tying up the courts every year.

If i were the govt lawyer in charge of responding to this suit, this would be my submission to the court.

For those who haven't seen it before:
La Femme Nikita is on Hulu. (you can sign up for a password of get a free one off the web). Great movie and still holds up. Very innovative directing, gritty and dark action/spy movie without all the old tired American cliches. Jean Reno (from The Professional) has a really cool but small role as a "cleaner" (like Mr Wolf from Pulp Fiction)

re: #44 Mad Al-Jaffee

This guy can be on the jury.

At least the trial will be entertaining.

re: #40 webevintage

WTH?
I thought the ACLU handled free speech issues.

sometimes they do...

National Debt Up $2 Trillion on Obama's Watch

The latest posting from the Treasury Department shows the National Debt has increased over $2 trillion since President Obama took office.

The debt now stands at $12.6 trillion. On the day Mr. Obama took office it was $10.6 trillion.

President George W. Bush still holds the record for the most debt run up on his watch: $4.9 trillion. But it took him over four years to rack up the first two trillion dollars in debt. It has taken Mr. Obama 421 days.

re: #45 Aceofwhat?

If i were the govt lawyer in charge of responding to this suit, this would be my submission to the court.

LMAO! Oh, God I love it! Upding for you my dear!

re: #49 cliffster

Furthermore..

In the 2011 federal budget released last month, the administration projects the National Debt will soar ever upward to over $25 trillion in the year 2020. The total debt will amount to more than 100 percent of the national economy as early as 2012.

Hope Despair

re: #44 Mad Al-Jaffee

This guy can be on the jury.

Upding for you too!

re: #21 Jeff In Ohio

Where is the fucking compassion? I can understand people have opposing ideological views on a complex subject like healthcare, but really...where is the fucking compassion? It's free, people. Compassion and empathy are free and they do not cause communism.

I'm ashamed to live in the same state as these assholes.

Tea Partiers Mock And Scorn Apparent Parkinson's Victim

[Video]

The guy throwing money at the end is carrying an "I Am AFP" sign. Is that Americans for Prosperity?

The full report on the rally is here:

[Link: www.dispatch.com...]

Hope the link works.

re: #33 Aceofwhat?

Meh. I thought the "KSM will be found guilty" was a gaffe, but i have no problem with him endorsing the policy of ending OBL's existence without a trial, in the unlikely event that OBL still exists. Seems different to me.

It's a simple acknowledgment of the fact that if he is still alive and we get his location, nobody is gonna fuck around and try to take him alive, they'll send in some BAMFs with orders to put two in the chest and one in the forehead.

re: #45 Aceofwhat?

If i were the govt lawyer in charge of responding to this suit, this would be my submission to the court.

This suit is obviously related to the common belief among lefties that we need a legally correct law enforcement approach rather than military force for the struggle against terrorism.
Unfortunately, Osama bin Laden is still at large, but could the ACLU’s non-military, due-process approach really work? Perhaps they would like to show up the Pentagon by trying it themselves:

ACLU rep (peering into cave): “Yoo-Hoo! Come out, Mr. Bin Laden, I have a suitcase full of arrest warrants for you.”

Osama: “Be gone, impudent strumpet of the Great Satan!”

ACLU rep : “Well! There’s no reason to talk like a Republican. It’s to your advantage to stand trial, you know. You could explain how your impoverished childhood and Bush’s Imperialist Foreign Policy caused the revolt on September 11th. Our top historian, Oliver Stone, says so.“

Osama: (Mumbling) “Impoverished? Revolt? Buwaaahaahaa!” (shouting again) “Silence, brazen female without veil. You should be stoned.”

ACLU rep: “Stoned? Thanks, but this is no time for an office party, and your chauvinism is Republica—, er, repugnant. Please, we can help! Media interns, er, peace activists, have ordered a million ‘Free Osama’ tee shirts. Saddam Hussein’s personal lawyer, Ramsey Clark, might help with your defense.”

Osama: ”Clark? Phooey! His clients keep getting bombed or hanged. Not want Saddam’s lawyer anyway! Saddam was blasphemer and communist!”

ACLU rep: “Commu-—? Accchhh! That’s McCarthyism! First sexism, and now this! The horror! You belong in prison after all! Come out now, you red-baiting sexist beast!”

Osama: “Enough of your insolence, hippie harridan!”

(We leave the scene as 200 armed terrorists swarm out of the cave.)

re: #33 Aceofwhat?

Meh. I thought the "KSM will be found guilty" was a gaffe, but i have no problem with him endorsing the policy of ending OBL's existence without a trial, in the unlikely event that OBL still exists. Seems different to me.

I don't have a problem with that either. But what if someplace like Pakistan or Yemen captures him?

Hate to be the first dissenting vote on this one... but wouldn't it be worth keeping him alive for information? And I don't think that there'd be any need for 'enhanced interrogation techniques', in the unlikely event that OBL IS still alive I'm sure he'd be running off at the mouth like niagara.

But yeah, after he's sung his song, ventilate the bastard.

re: #55 Shiplord Kirel

I love the story in The Onion about the ACLU defending the rights of Nazis to burn down an ACLU building.

re: #41 Mr. Hammer

Hoping that was staged. How horrible.

Which part? The Tea Party protest was real, outside Rep. Kilroys office in Columbus, Oh.
The dude on the ground with a sign supporting HCR and claiming to have Parkinson's might not real. And him not being real makes the actions of people who don't know if he's real or not excusable? Sorry, they are assholes if he's real, they are assholes if he is a provocateur.

re: #51 cliffster

Furthermore..

Hope Despair

Motivational poster, anyone?

re: #56 KingKenrod

I don't have a problem with that either. But what if someplace like Pakistan or Yemen captures him?

I think the military can come up with a trillion dollars in petty cash laying around.

re: #56 KingKenrod

I don't have a problem with that either. But what if someplace like Pakistan or Yemen captures him?

they give him to us. we kill him.

right?

Osama bin Laden “will never appear in an American courtroom,” Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. told House members at a hearing Tuesday.

“Let’s deal with the reality here,” Holder said in response to questions from Rep. John Culberson (R-Tex.). “The reality is, we will be reading Miranda rights to a corpse.”

Ah, so no trial for him? Why's that? The evidence he was involved in 9/11 and responsible for the attacks is overwhelming. How then would his case differ from that of KSM, who Holder wants to have tried in federal court until reality intervened and is in the process of walking back from that terrible decision to try 'em in tribunals instead.

OBL is probably already dead - so no trial for him.

What then of Zawahiri and Mullah Omar, both of whom are wanted by the US? Will they too get the same treatment (no trial in a US courtroom)? And if so, why is their case being handled differently than that of KSM?

I'm quite curious about the leapin' lapses of logic in Holder's rationale here. It's good for some terrorists but not others?

re: #61 cliffster

I think the military can come up with a trillion dollars in petty cash laying around.

Careful, you'll make tea partiers' heads explode.

Works for me.

re: #59 Jeff In Ohio

Which part? The Tea Party protest was real, outside Rep. Kilroys office in Columbus, Oh.
The dude on the ground with a sign supporting HCR and claiming to have Parkinson's might not real. And him not being real makes the actions of people who don't know if he's real or not excusable? Sorry, they are assholes if he's real, they are assholes if he is a provocateur.

Oh, I agree completely. It matters not whether he was legit. I am horrified at the response.

re: #55 Shiplord Kirel

In the unlikely event that the ACLU ever endorses the entire Bill Of Rights as defined by SCOTUS I would begin to respect them. Until then, well my only regret is I have no birdcage to put their press releases in. Selective enforcement is contemptible coming from them.

re: #57 Ken K

Hate to be the first dissenting vote on this one... but wouldn't it be worth keeping him alive for information? And I don't think that there'd be any need for 'enhanced interrogation techniques', in the unlikely event that OBL IS still alive I'm sure he'd be running off at the mouth like niagara.

But yeah, after he's sung his song, ventilate the bastard.

If we did find him we would never be able to capture him, his virgins await him and I'm sure he would be an instant martyr. One of his lackeys most likely would off him just to keep him out of the "Great Satan's" hands.

OBL, if alive, will never be captured alive. He'll go out in a hail of gunfire, or a bodyguard will shoot him. We ain't gonna get him alive.
;)

re: #54 Girth

It's a simple acknowledgment of the fact that if he is still alive and we get his location, nobody is gonna fuck around and try to take him alive, they'll send in some BAMFs with orders to put two in the chest and one in the forehead.

Bingo. One need not be an unabashed Holder cheerleader to support his position on this item.

re: #37 rightwingconspirator

Killing Bin Laden upon confirmation of it really being him is exactly the right thing to do. The only people to be concerned about would be uninvolved people in the same room/cave/ or madrasa. Before Al Qaeda was on the run, capture made sense. Now, not in the least.

Agreed...and a confirmed kill would be the only detail I'd require to be satisfied. I don't care if it's by drone, by missile, by sniper, or by exploding candygram. I just want the fucker dead. And I definitely don't need a detailed 24/7 news cycle about it. Let Wolf Blitzer suck ass somewhere else...surely there's a non-issue he can hyperventilate about.

re: #53 KingKenrod

The guy throwing money at the end is carrying an "I Am AFP" sign. Is that Americans for Prosperity?

The full report on the rally is here:

[Link: www.dispatch.com...]

Hope the link works.

Thanks for that.

We should let Eric Cartman take care of him, Bugs Bunny style. That reminds me, new South Park tonight.

re: #71 darthstar

Agreed...and a confirmed kill would be the only detail I'd require to be satisfied. I don't care if it's by drone, by missile, by sniper, or by exploding candygram. I just want the fucker dead. And I definitely don't need a detailed 24/7 news cycle about it. Let Wolf Blitzer suck ass somewhere else...surely there's a non-issue he can hyperventilate about.

hmmm...the shark candygram might not be such a bad idea...it always worked in SNL/

re: #67 rightwingconspirator

In the unlikely event that the ACLU ever endorses the entire Bill Of Rights as defined by SCOTUS I would begin to respect them. Until then, well my only regret is I have no birdcage to put their press releases in. Selective enforcement is contemptible coming from them.

Hey our neighbors have a bird, we could just give them the press releases... ;)

Afternoon all! I am a little uncomfortable about the Attorney-General of the United States making statements like this. He's the head of our Department of Justice, but his observation sounds more like something that would come from a vigilante. How will his statement appear if, for some reason, Bin Laden - surrounded by U.S. Marines - puts up his hands and surrenders?

I guess I just wish he hadn't said anything.

re: #21 Jeff In Ohio

Where is the fucking compassion? I can understand people have opposing ideological views on a complex subject like healthcare, but really...where is the fucking compassion? It's free, people. Compassion and empathy are free and they do not cause communism.

I'm ashamed to live in the same state as these assholes.

Tea Partiers Mock And Scorn Apparent Parkinson's Victim

[Video]

Because we are now in a society where anyone having a different point of view is actually evil and deserves whatever horrible affliction they have. All that dirty fucking hippy stuff that Christ used to talk about where the meek inherit the Earth and blessed are the poor...rich men and camels through the eyes of needles...that's all communist Acorn loser bullshit now.

Glen Beck luvs me this I know
Fox Broadcasting tells me so
No-regs banking keeps us strong
Corporations do no wrong

Yes, Glen Beck Luvs me!
Advertising subsidy...
keeps his eyes bubbly!
Fox News tells me so!

re: #74 Aceofwhat?

hmmm...the shark candygram might not be such a bad idea...it always worked in SNL/

Mongo like candy!

re: #77 celticdragon

Because we are now in a society where anyone having a different point of view is actually evil and deserves whatever horrible affliction they have. All that dirty fucking hippy stuff that Christ used to talk about where the meek inherit the Earth and blessed are the poor...rich men and camels through the eyes of needles...that's all communist Acorn loser bullshit now.

Glen Beck luvs me this I know
Fox Broadcasting tells me so
No-regs banking keeps us strong
Corporations do no wrong

Yes, Glen Beck Luvs me!
Advertising subsidy...
keeps his eyes bubbly!
Fox News tells me so!

Oh, very well done! Upding!

re: #76 subsailor68

Afternoon all! I am a little uncomfortable about the Attorney-General of the United States making statements like this. He's the head of our Department of Justice, but his observation sounds more like something that would come from a vigilante. How will his statement appear if, for some reason, Bin Laden - surrounded by U.S. Marines - puts up his hands and surrenders?

I guess I just wish he hadn't said anything.

I don't have any problem with it. He's expressing the reality. Bin Laden has declared war on us, there's no grey area here.

re: #76 subsailor68

Afternoon all! I am a little uncomfortable about the Attorney-General of the United States making statements like this. He's the head of our Department of Justice, but his observation sounds more like something that would come from a vigilante. How will his statement appear if, for some reason, Bin Laden - surrounded by U.S. Marines - puts up his hands and surrenders?

I guess I just wish he hadn't said anything.

i'm fine with us shooting him on the spot. but that's just me.

re: #76 subsailor68

Afternoon all! I am a little uncomfortable about the Attorney-General of the United States making statements like this. He's the head of our Department of Justice, but his observation sounds more like something that would come from a vigilante. How will his statement appear if, for some reason, Bin Laden - surrounded by U.S. Marines - puts up his hands and surrenders?

I guess I just wish he hadn't said anything.

In a country where the administration is repeatedly accused of being 'soft on terror' and the president an 'ally of terrorists' a little excessive rhetoric is sometimes necessary. Don't worry. The administration's critics will still find something wrong with it...like Holder wasn't believable enough or something.

Candygram for Mongo! Candygram for Mongo!

an unrelated but humorous story

Evil Socialist media link

re: #4 Killgore Trout

"You have the right to remain dead..."

"If you give up the right to remain dead...well, you're more man than most!"

re: #82 darthstar

He had his fingers crossed.

re: #83 oaktree

Candygram for Mongo! Candygram for Mongo!

Mongo just a pawn in the chess game of life.

re: #81 Aceofwhat?

i'm fine with us shooting him on the spot. but that's just me.

I'm with you on that, my only regret is that I have only one set of cross hairs to use...He'd look good in them I'm sure!

re: #75 Dragon_Lady

Hey our neighbors have a bird, we could just give them the press releases... ;)

They'd give them back after the bird calls the ACLU and Amnesty International!

Whoa guys! Believe me, I have absolutely no problem with our taking down Bin Laden. None whatsoever. And I agree that he did declare war on the West. My only point was that I wish the Attorney General had simply - well, perhaps worded his statement differently, or refrained from commenting.

re: #89 SteveC

They'd give them back after the bird calls the ACLU and Amnesty International!

Nope, these are our Persian friend we've talked about in the past! ;)

re: #55 Shiplord Kirel

This suit is obviously related to the common belief among lefties that we need a legally correct law enforcement approach rather than military force for the struggle against terrorism.

There are more than a few people on the Right who also think that little things like due process and rule of law are not to be dispensed with just because they are inconvenient...

Try the bastards IAW the law or recognized them as POWs.

If you are holding someone who claims not to be a terrorist, than pony up the damned evidence and prove it.

Buying some poor bastards from a warlord who got pissed that they didn't come up with enough opium crops last year and now claims they are "terrorists" that his boys captured... is not a great way to prosecute the GWOT, imo...and we have had this very scenario play out more than once.

I am divided on this.

If we find Bin Laden and kill him in a shoot-out, then fine and so be it.

However, I really wouldn't mind capturing Bin Laden alive. Think about it: he's an icon to so many out there. It would be great if he was absolutely shamed by being shaved and forced into an orange jump suit and brought to the dock to face a no-nonsense judge in full view of the world cameras.

I think that image alone would hurt their cause so much in the end.

Maybe I'm dreaming, but it's still a nice dream.

re: #90 subsailor68

Whoa guys! Believe me, I have absolutely no problem with our taking down Bin Laden. None whatsoever. And I agree that he did declare war on the West. My only point was that I wish the Attorney General had simply - well, perhaps worded his statement differently, or refrained from commenting.

It's provocative but it's no worse than Bushe's "Dead or Alive" statement.

re: #79 Dragon_Lady

Oh, very well done! Upding!

Thank you ;)

re: #62 Aceofwhat?

they give him to us. we kill him.

right?

yep...one of his guards shoots him in custody, there's a big stink for about three weeks, and then the guard is let off with a 'Don't do that again.' warning, followed by appearances on Fox news and Leno.

re: #93 Summer

I am divided on this.

If we find Bin Laden and kill him in a shoot-out, then fine and so be it.

However, I really wouldn't mind capturing Bin Laden alive. Think about it: he's an icon to so many out there. It would be great if he was absolutely shamed by being shaved and forced into an orange jump suit and brought to the dock to face a no-nonsense judge in full view of the world cameras.

I think that image alone would hurt their cause so much in the end.

Maybe I'm dreaming, but it's still a nice dream.

Those around OBL, and himself, know this. Which is why we'll never get him alive.

/pimf "Bush's"

this is what happens when you multitask...without a "Multipass!"

re: #88 Dragon_Lady

I'm with you on that, my only regret is that I have only one set of cross hairs to use...He'd look good in them I'm sure!

I'd settle for a good old fashioned stoning.

re: #99 darthstar

I'd settle for a good old fashioned stoning.

Me too, but only for those who say "Jehovah."

re: #92 celticdragon

There are more than a few people on the Right who also think that little things like due process and rule of law are not to be dispensed with just because they are inconvenient...

Try the bastards IAW the law or recognized them as POWs.

If you are holding someone who claims not to be a terrorist, than pony up the damned evidence and prove it.

Buying some poor bastards from a warlord who got pissed that they didn't come up with enough opium crops last year and now claims they are "terrorists" that his boys captured... is not a great way to prosecute the GWOT, imo...and we have had this very scenario play out more than once.

so what's the rational basis for the drones lawsuit, then?

In honor of the TV ad playing right now...

"Taken care of...wolf style!"

re: #40 webevintage

WTH?
I thought the ACLU handled free speech issues.

I'm afraid I also have some bad news about Santa Claus for you, too...

re: #93 Summer

I am divided on this.

If we find Bin Laden and kill him in a shoot-out, then fine and so be it.

However, I really wouldn't mind capturing Bin Laden alive. Think about it: he's an icon to so many out there. It would be great if he was absolutely shamed by being shaved and forced into an orange jump suit and brought to the dock to face a no-nonsense judge in full view of the world cameras.

I think that image alone would hurt their cause so much in the end.

Maybe I'm dreaming, but it's still a nice dream.

A valid point, but the scenario is not likely if any of his guard are there.

re: #100 Mad Al-Jaffee

Me too, but only for those who say "Jehovah."

One of the funniest Monty Python movie scenes ever.

re: #93 Summer

I am divided on this.

If we find Bin Laden and kill him in a shoot-out, then fine and so be it.

However, I really wouldn't mind capturing Bin Laden alive. Think about it: he's an icon to so many out there. It would be great if he was absolutely shamed by being shaved and forced into an orange jump suit and brought to the dock to face a no-nonsense judge in full view of the world cameras.

I think that image alone would hurt their cause so much in the end.

Maybe I'm dreaming, but it's still a nice dream.

apparently it's not humane to "humiliate" prisoners, so the ACLU would block that action...

re: #76 subsailor68

Afternoon all! I am a little uncomfortable about the Attorney-General of the United States making statements like this. He's the head of our Department of Justice, but his observation sounds more like something that would come from a vigilante. How will his statement appear if, for some reason, Bin Laden - surrounded by U.S. Marines - puts up his hands and surrenders?

I guess I just wish he hadn't said anything.

If his hands are up, it makes a bigger target.

re: #103 The Sanity Inspector

I'm afraid I also have some bad news about Santa Claus for you, too...

Oh, no...HELL NO DON'T SAY IT! I WANT TO BELIEVE!

So no one thinks that this is a moot point because he is dead or not going to be found?

re: #103 The Sanity Inspector

I'm afraid I also have some bad news about Santa Claus for you, too...

Wha? Whats wrong with Santa? Is he sick or something?

re: #101 Aceofwhat?

so what's the rational basis for the drones lawsuit, then?

I have no idea. I haven't read it. Ask whomever filed it.

re: #109 Uninformed Opinion

So no one thinks that this is a moot point because he is dead or not going to be found?

Wouldn't that make Holder's statement true, then, technically?

re: #109 Uninformed Opinion

So no one thinks that this is a moot point because he is dead or not going to be found?

"He's dead, Jim"

I asked Santa for OBL's head in a basket. I've been a very good boy, Santa.

re: #111 celticdragon

I have no idea. I haven't read it. Ask whomever filed it.

I read the ACLU's reason for filing it. It made as much sense as a bread pilot!

re: #94 Thanos

It's provocative but it's no worse than Bushe's "Dead or Alive" statement.

Hi Thanos! That's a good point, and I'm not all that comfortable with that statement either. I wish President Bush had phrased it a little differently. Perhaps something like:

"Osama Bin Laden has declared war on the West, and on the United States of America. As such, he is an enemy combatant. His fate, therefore, may - and should be - the same as our enemies in past conflicts. He will either be killed on the battlefield, wherever that may be, or will be captured and treated in accordance with our laws and the Geneva Conventions. Either outcome is acceptable to me."

re: #101 Aceofwhat?

so what's the rational basis for the drones lawsuit, then?

One doesn't logically follow from the other. In any way.

I hope the Obama administration captures Bin Laden alive, just so I can savor the exploding wingnut heads. Imagine the furious spinning and conspiracy theories that would ensue. It would be highly amusing, if you enjoy that kind of humor.

re: #109 Uninformed Opinion

So no one thinks that this is a moot point because he is dead or not going to be found?

Nah, dead or not, we need to keep looking. What happens if he did slip the noose? (Heaven forbid) It wouldn't do the have him pop up at some later date if we've declared him dead and not worth looking for. We'd look like idiots!

I just find it silly that this gets press. He is either dead or hiding in a country we are not going to find him. He has been on dialysis how long?

re: #118 Charles

I hope the Obama administration captures Bin Laden alive, just so I can savor the exploding wingnut heads. Imagine the furious spinning and conspiracy theories that would ensue. It would be highly amusing, if you enjoy that kind of humor.

Do I ever!
XD

Well, I'm apt to believe that he's already probably dead. But if he's not, I do hope there's a chance we can get him alive. The ACLU might go on and on but I'm willing to bet that a lot of it would be self-muted.

I know it's a long shot but it would still be nice. I'd rather see him in an orange jump suit and sentenced by the court in public and on camera than see him shot in a "valiant" struggle which would make him into a bigger hero. I think just capturing him would be so shameful that it's worth the attempt. =)

Again, I know it's probably just a dream but...we have captured big names before when we get enough info and stuff. Sometimes it actually does happen. =)

re: #119 Dragon_Lady

Nah, dead or not, we need to keep looking. What happens if he did slip the noose? (Heaven forbid) It wouldn't do the have him pop up at some later date if we've declared him dead and not worth looking for. We'd look like idiots!

I agree we need to keep looking, but this seems like another nontroversy to me.

re: #105 darthstar

One of the funniest Monty Python movie scenes ever.

Needs to be posted:

re: #117 garhighway

One doesn't logically follow from the other. In any way.

That's because I was originally mocking the drones lawsuit. The departure wasn't terribly straightforward, so the return path to central theme will be a little tortured as well.

No harm. I often depart from central themes, often in erratic fashion. Not throwing stones here. (Jehovah!!)

re: #101 Aceofwhat?

so what's the rational basis for the drones lawsuit, then?

Because the filers are Progressistes sans frontières.

Next you're all going to tell me there are no leprechauns.

Lalalala *fingers in ears* Not listening!

re: #116 subsailor68

Hi Thanos! That's a good point, and I'm not all that comfortable with that statement either. I wish President Bush had phrased it a little differently. Perhaps something like:

"Osama Bin Laden has declared war on the West, and on the United States of America. As such, he is an enemy combatant. His fate, therefore, may - and should be - the same as our enemies in past conflicts. He will either be killed on the battlefield, wherever that may be, or will be captured and treated in accordance with our laws and the Geneva Conventions. Either outcome is acceptable to me."

Yeah, but that's neither concise nor stirring... Remember it's very hard to keep a majority of congress or Americans focused on a point longer than a bumper sticker can state...

Maybe Bin Laden can't get it up

Erectile dysfunction (ED) is a robust predictor of all-cause mortality and cardiovascular events in men with cardiovascular disease or risk factors, new data show

re: #120 Uninformed Opinion

I just find it silly that this gets press. He is either dead or hiding in a country we are not going to find him. He has been on dialysis how long?

He's shaved his beard and is smoking a hookah on a beach in Turkey.

re: #118 Charles

I hope the Obama administration captures Bin Laden alive, just so I can savor the exploding wingnut heads. Imagine the furious spinning and conspiracy theories that would ensue. It would be highly amusing, if you enjoy that kind of humor.

To be sure! I would enjoy that immensely. Spinning whingnuts head's would make for great fodder.

re: #128 Thanos

Yeah, but that's neither concise nor stirring... Remember it's very hard to keep a majority of congress or Americans focused on a point longer than a bumper sticker can state...

Well, okay, ya got me there!

;-)

re: #124 darthstar

Stoning

re: #118 Charles

How's the family? All's well I hope?

re: #55 Shiplord Kirel

Somehow I think you underestimate the ACLU.

re: #106 Aceofwhat?

apparently it's not humane to "humiliate" prisoners, so the ACLU would block that action...

Sexual humiliation or smearing people with feces shouldn't be okay with anybody, I would think. (numerous photos and reports from Bagram and Abu Ghraib of this)

That doesn't even begin to get into this guy whose genitals where sliced and diced with a razor...

[Link: articles.sfgate.com...]
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

I guess having your nads sliced is pretty humiliating.

Unless you are on Jerry Springer...

re: #92 celticdragon

There are more than a few people on the Right who also think that little things like due process and rule of law are not to be dispensed with just because they are inconvenient...

Try the bastards IAW the law or recognized them as POWs.

If you are holding someone who claims not to be a terrorist, than pony up the damned evidence and prove it.

Buying some poor bastards from a warlord who got pissed that they didn't come up with enough opium crops last year and now claims they are "terrorists" that his boys captured... is not a great way to prosecute the GWOT, imo...and we have had this very scenario play out more than once.

The context of my post is the drone attacks and certain leftist efforts to have them abolished as contrary to due process requirements. Code Pink has been especially active in this area. Talk show host Jay Diamond goes further, insisting for example that terrorist head-chopper Abu Musab Al Zaqarwi was "murdered" in 2006 because he wasn't given due process before an F-16 dropped a bomb on his house.
Due process has its place in dealing with these people, but I am talking about the insistence that it be made a substitute for, or an exclusive alternative to, military force.

re: #136 celticdragon

Sexual humiliation or smearing people with feces shouldn't be okay with anybody, I would think. (numerous photos and reports from Bagram and Abu Ghraib of this)

That doesn't even begin to get into this guy whose genitals where sliced and diced with a razor...

[Link: articles.sfgate.com...]
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

I guess having your nads sliced is pretty humiliating.

Unless you are on Jerry Springer...

I agree with everything you've posted. At the same time, if it would humiliate a terrorist to shave their head, i'd shave it immediately.

(actually...i'd give them a Vanilla Ice fade with stripeys on the side...now THAT is humiliating!!)

re: #109 Uninformed Opinion

So no one thinks that this is a moot point because he is dead or not going to be found?

These audio tapes of his keep getting released at intervals. Maybe the CIA is just pretending to believe that they're from him.

At least one good thing: he's no longer openly strutting around, granting interviews to intrepid Western journalists, and using leaked evidence from terrorist trials in American civilian courts to duck surveillance.

re: #127 EmmmieG

Next you're all going to tell me there are no leprechauns.

Lalalala *fingers in ears* Not listening!

Now my dear EmmmieG, we all know that Leprechauns exist. No worries!

Dennis is in.

"This is not the bill I wanted to support," Kucinich said, acknowledging that he nonetheless needed to make a decision about the measure as written.

"I have doubts about this bill," he said. "I do not think it is a step toward anything I have worked for."

Then why are you voting yes, you moron?

re: #138 Aceofwhat?

I agree with everything you've posted. At the same time, if it would humiliate a terrorist to shave their head, i'd shave it immediately.

(actually...i'd give them a Vanilla Ice fade with stripeys on the side...now THAT is humiliating!!)

Heh!

That is kinda funny :)

Bad mullets for prisoners? I could see that. ;)

Is it too early to start drinking green beer?

re: #141 SteveC

Dennis is in.

Then why are you voting yes, you moron?

"I am running for President of the United States to enable the Goddess of Peace to encircle within her arms all the children of this country and all the children of the world. "

-Dennis Kucinich

re: #143 cliffster

It's past 5:00pm in Ireland, right?

re: #118 Charles

I hope the Obama administration captures Bin Laden alive, just so I can savor the exploding wingnut heads. Imagine the furious spinning and conspiracy theories that would ensue. It would be highly amusing, if you enjoy that kind of humor.

Wanted Dead Or Alive works much better for me.

re: #145 cliffster

It's past 5:00pm in Ireland, right?

6:58PM
:)

If UBL's still alive he's rumored to travel with a Praetorian or Elite guard, nick named The Black Guard (matches his black turban etc.) There are several articles that dig into that over at LWJ

[Link: www.longwarjournal.org...]

Plug in "black guard"

re: #140 Dragon_Lady

Now my dear EmmmieG, we all know that Leprechauns exist. No worries!

As I posted in the last thread:

[Link: www.bassharp.com...]

re: #142 celticdragon

Heh!

That is kinda funny :)

Bad mullets for prisoners? I could see that. ;)

Accchhh! Anything but that. Have you no decency?
//

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

Somehow I think you underestimate the ACLU.

I never underestimate them, I just try not to pay attention to them at all.

re: #143 cliffster

Is it too early to start drinking green beer?

Its afternoon somewhere in the world, I say go for it! ;)

re: #143 cliffster

Is it too early to start drinking green beer?

Actually you are well overdue, and late you slacker!

re: #142 celticdragon

Heh!

That is kinda funny :)

Bad mullets for prisoners? I could see that. ;)

Mullets - even better! and we shave the beards but leave the moustaches, and mirror half of everyone's cell so they have to look at it every day!

re: #144 Aceofwhat?

"I am running for President of the United States to enable the Goddess of Peace to encircle within her arms all the children of this country and all the children of the world. "

-Dennis Kucinich

Sounds like Steve Martin's Christmas Wish:

[Link: acrentropy.blogspot.com...]

Btw, I used to refer to a mullet as a "televangelist haircut" before I knew what they were really called.

re: #143 cliffster

Is it too early to start drinking green beer?

Not unless you're in Hawaii.

re: #149 Mad Al-Jaffee

As I posted in the last thread:

[Link: www.bassharp.com...]

Wow that green is painful to look at! But thank you for making my point! ;) Upding for the Leprechauns!

re: #155 Mad Al-Jaffee

Sounds like Steve Martin's Christmas Wish:

[Link: acrentropy.blogspot.com...]

that's the best part...one was an all-time great SNL sketch...the other was a serious statement by a congressman running for president. yowza.

re: #144 Aceofwhat?

"I am running for President of the United States to enable the Goddess of Peace to encircle within her arms all the children of this country and all the children of the world. "

-Dennis Kucinich

LOL!

And, Mr. Kucinich, I will be voting against you because the Goddess of Peace just called to tell me she thinks you're goofy as a loon.

subsailor68

re: #159 Aceofwhat?

that's the best part...one was an all-time great SNL sketch...the other was a serious statement by a congressman running for president. yowza.

The only thing I like about that gnome politician is his wife.

re: #2 EmmmieG

And he can have a trial by jury of his peers. Not sure how we can find out what 12 dead terrorists think, but we can work it out.

American ingenuity!

In honour of St. Patrick's Day, does anyone know if the POTUS will be using his Irish name?

re: #158 Dragon_Lady

Wow that green is painful to look at! But thank you for making my point! ;) Upding for the Leprechauns!

They used to make balloon animals for me and my friends when we were kids.

re: #21 Jeff In Ohio

Mob mentality, I hate it.

Everyman has a mob self and an individual self, in varying proportions.
--D. H. Lawrence, 1929

re: #118 Charles
re: #131 Dragon_Lady

As GWB failed to capture or kill Bin Laden (assuming he is alive) we have been subjected to the left wing fantasy of omnipotent government capacity, as in "those satellites showed where Osama was all the time, GWB just wanted him alive to keep the war on". Well now that Obama has had time, this was obviously cravenly wrong. Perspective FAIL.

Do leftwingnuts spin in the opposite direction from rightwingnuts?

re: #153 Thanos

Actually you are well overdue, and late you slacker!

I have several coworkers that took the day off. They were right on time on the green beer, I'm sure.

Check out Google's beautiful Saint Patrick's day graphic.

(They're still evil though)

re: #166 rightwingconspirator

re: #131 Dragon_Lady

As GWB failed to capture or kill Bin Laden (assuming he is alive) we have been subjected to the left wing fantasy of omnipotent government capacity, as in "those satellites showed where Osama was all the time, GWB just wanted him alive to keep the war on". Well now that Obama has had time, this was obviously cravenly wrong. Perspective FAIL.

Do leftwingnuts spin in the opposite direction from rightwingnuts?

LMAO!

re: #141 SteveC

Dennis is in.

Then why are you voting yes, you moron?

“Something is better than nothing — that’s what I keep hearing from my constituents,’’ Mr. Kucinich said.

God forbid that "moron" actually represent the people who elected him.

re: #145 cliffster

It's past 5:00pm in Ireland, right?

The sun is over the yardarm somewhere on this planet!

re: #166 rightwingconspirator

re: #131 Dragon_Lady

As GWB failed to capture or kill Bin Laden (assuming he is alive) we have been subjected to the left wing fantasy of omnipotent government capacity, as in "those satellites showed where Osama was all the time, GWB just wanted him alive to keep the war on". Well now that Obama has had time, this was obviously cravenly wrong. Perspective FAIL.

Do leftwingnuts spin in the opposite direction from rightwingnuts?

Nah, they both spin in circles, which is why they keep running into each others.

I look forward to the wingnut spin on this.
:)

re: #156 Shiplord Kirel

Btw, I used to refer to a mullet as a "televangelist haircut" before I knew what they were really called.

Mullets were only cool until Bowie and Eno quit wearing them and the time guys like this started...

re: #172 Shiplord Kirel

Nah, they both spin in circles, which is why they keep running into each others.

No strings! No strings! As they spin their way to freedom...

:-D

re: #172 Shiplord Kirel

Nah, they both spin in circles, which is why they keep running into each others.

They spin right round baby, right round, like a record player

re: #137 Shiplord Kirel

The context of my post is the drone attacks and certain leftist efforts to have them abolished as contrary to due process requirements. Code Pink has been especially active in this area. Talk show host Jay Diamond goes further, insisting for example that terrorist head-chopper Abu Musab Al Zaqarwi was "murdered" in 2006 because he wasn't given due process before an F-16 dropped a bomb on his house.
Due process has its place in dealing with these people, but I am talking about the insistence that it be made a substitute for, or an exclusive alternative to, military force.

Actual use of combat arms is one thing of course, and I giggle every time some Jihadi meets a Hellfire missile.

Oops! That had to hurt...!

When somebody is rendered Hors de combat, other rules apply.

I know perfectly well that it can be nearly irresistible for infantry in the field to keep from beating the living hell out of prisoners who were only shooting at them minutes before. This guy here who shot a captured Jihadi who had just thrown gasoline on an anthropologist co worker and burned her has my full support. I would have done the same thing...and most of us here as well, I suspect.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

But as far as cooler heads in the rear who are dealing with prisoners in an interrogation or establishing actual proof of activities (or lack of proof) need to be held to a higher standard, and there really is no room for sadism, incompetence or "I saw this on '24' last week" bullshit.

re: #174 Thanos

Mullets were only cool until Bowie and Eno quit wearing them and the time guys like this started...

Oh, dear me. Where's the brain bleach?

Give that guy a cheeseburger.

re: #178 MandyManners

Oh, dear me. Where's the brain bleach?

Give that guy a cheeseburger.

Sorry, no brain bleach.

re: #178 MandyManners

Oh, dear me. Where's the brain bleach?

Give that guy a cheeseburger.

He can haz?

re: #178 MandyManners

Oh, dear me. Where's the brain bleach?

Give that guy a cheeseburger.

Saw a mullet just like that just this week, only the guy had used a ton of hair gel. Unlike the gentleman in the picture though, the guy I saw was wearing a shirt, his best tank top, but a shirt nonetheless. Claaasy.

re: #178 MandyManners

Oh, dear me. Where's the brain bleach?

Give that guy a cheeseburger.

mmm, cheeseburgers.

mmm, fish 'n chips

re: #183 cliffster

mmm, fish 'n chips

Oh, go get lunch already.

re: #174 Thanos

Mullets were only cool until Bowie and Eno quit wearing them and the time guys like this started...

Oh man, I just realized my little brother wears his hair like that! Oh man. Thats disturbing... :(

We were taught as soldiers that "No Quarter" was against the law of war.
It apparently still is:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

re: #184 EmmmieG

Oh, go get lunch already.

I lost 10 pounds over the last few weeks. I have a feeling I'm going to find a few of those pounds tonight.

re: #170 goddamnedfrank

“Something is better than nothing — that’s what I keep hearing from my constituents,’’ Mr. Kucinich said.

God forbid that "moron" actually represent the people who elected him.

Why wouldn't everyone vote for
Dennis "the (Israelis') slaughter of innocents in Gaza" Kucinich?
WAKE UP AMERICA!/

re: #185 Dragon_Lady

Oh man, I just realized my little brother wears his hair like that! Oh man. Thats disturbing... :(

Your parents adopted him and never told you. Does that help?

re: #177 celticdragon

Actual use of combat arms is one thing of course, and I giggle every time some Jihadi meets a Hellfire missile.

Oops! That had to hurt...!

When somebody is rendered Hors de combat, other rules apply.

I know perfectly well that it can be nearly irresistible for infantry in the field to keep from beating the living hell out of prisoners who were only shooting at them minutes before. This guy here who shot a captured Jihadi who had just thrown gasoline on an anthropologist co worker and burned her has my full support. I would have done the same thing...and most of us here as well, I suspect.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Interestingly, this was also the situation of General Nguyễn Ngọc Loan, whose impromptu execution of captured terrorist Nguyen Van Lem became one of the iconic photographs of the Vietnam War. Lem was the leader of an assassination squad that had busied itself murdering the families of the very police officers Loan commanded. This inconvenient fact is ignored and the photo is often cited as representative of the alleged brutality and evil of the allied cause.

But as far as cooler heads in the rear who are dealing with prisoners in an interrogation or establishing actual proof of activities (or lack of proof) need to be held to a higher standard, and there really is no room for sadism, incompetence or "I saw this on '24' last week" bullshit.

Agree completely.

re: #189 Cathypop

Your parents adopted him and never told you. Does that help?

Nah, I remember when was born...Now I really bummed... :(

re: #183 cliffster

mmm, fish 'n chips

FRESH FISH!

(Gilligan starts freaking out)

re: #122 Summer

Correct in every line.

re: #174 Thanos

Mullets were only cool until Bowie and Eno quit wearing them and the time guys like this started...

Now mullets are a competitive sport.

In terms of Osama:

re: #163 Spare O'Lake

In honour of St. Patrick's Day, does anyone know if the POTUS will be using his Irish name?

*crickets*
Barry O'Bama
*more crickets*

re: #191 Dragon_Lady

Nah, I remember when was born...Now I really bummed... :(

Accidentally switched in the nursery - your real brother is running a hardware store in Deerlick, Indiana.

re: #197 SteveC

Accidentally switched in the nursery - your real brother is running a hardware store in Deerlick, Indiana.

If only that were true... *sigh*

re: #186 Decatur Deb

We were taught as soldiers that "No Quarter" was against the law of war.
It apparently still is:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I'm kind of proud that we do that, but what happens in a scenario like my granddad's, where Jap soldiers were surrendering, but the occasional one has a live grenade in his shirt, then he gets close enough to take a few of us out with him? Does the offer of surrender preclude our shooting them anyway because there's some reasonable suspicion that they're using our laws against us? Did y'all get into that level of hair-splitting?

re: #192 SteveC

FRESH FISH!

(Gilligan starts freaking out)

Ha!

Reading Miranda to a corpse... where have I heard that before... Oh yes here:

About 1:10 into it.

re: #197 SteveC

Accidentally switched in the nursery - your real brother is running a hardware store in Deerlick, Indiana.

Is that what they renamed French Lick to in a spate of patriotic fervor?

re: #196 Spare O'Lake

*crickets*
Barry O'Bama
*more crickets*

Spare O'Lake, ladies and gentlemen. He's here all week. Don't forget to tip your lovely waitresses and bartenders.

re: #199 keloyd

I'm kind of proud that we do that, but what happens in a scenario like my granddad's, where Jap soldiers were surrendering, but the occasional one has a live grenade in his shirt, then he gets close enough to take a few of us out with him? Does the offer of surrender preclude our shooting them anyway because there's some reasonable suspicion that they're using our laws against us? Did y'all get into that level of hair-splitting?

If there is a perceived threat you go into a gray area, and he goes into a pile. The surrender has to be real.

re: #170 goddamnedfrank

“Something is better than nothing — that’s what I keep hearing from my constituents,’’ Mr. Kucinich said.

God forbid that "moron" actually represent the people who elected him.

I think he is, he's as liberal as they come (besides Bernie Sanders) so his vote really shouldn't come as a surprise. The HCR doesn't go as far as he would like but like he said, to his constituents "something is better than nothing".

re: #202 oaktree

Is that what they renamed French Lick to in a spate of patriotic fervor?

I thought that was Freedom Lick.

re: #203 cliffster

Spare O'Lake, ladies and gentlemen. He's here all week. Don't forget to tip your lovely waitresses and bartenders.

Tough crowd tonight...get me an Irish Whisky...I'm dyin' out here...make it a triple!

Everybody ready For St. Paddy's day parties tonight?
1 1/2 hours till It's time to bring the house down...

Gonna eat some lunch, BBL! :-)

re: #202 oaktree

Is that what they renamed French Lick to in a spate of patriotic fervor?

That was the town where they played the Regional Playoffs in the movie Hoosiers :)

re: #199 keloyd

I'm kind of proud that we do that, but what happens in a scenario like my granddad's, where Jap soldiers were surrendering, but the occasional one has a live grenade in his shirt, then he gets close enough to take a few of us out with him? Does the offer of surrender preclude our shooting them anyway because there's some reasonable suspicion that they're using our laws against us? Did y'all get into that level of hair-splitting?

Hard to say, and I think it could be argued that in those circumstances, if prisoners refuse to undress down to underwear before approaching to show they are not rigged to explode, then any infantryman in the uncertainty of battle cannot reasonably be held to not act to defend themselves.

re: #206 ArchangelMichael

I thought that was Freedom Lick.

Hey, man is that Freedom Rock?!

re: #208 HoosierHoops

Everybody ready For St. Paddy's day parties tonight?
1 1/2 hours till It's time to bring the house down...

I *hic* can't wait.

re: #210 SteveC

That was the town where they played the Regional Playoffs in the movie Hoosiers :)

What is it?
What's the matter?
I'll make it Coach...
Ok..Get the ball to Jimmy
/Hoosiers

re: #212 Mad Al-Jaffee

Hey, man is that Freedom Rock?!

If it was French Rock before 2002-ish... then "Turn that OFF man!"

re: #207 Spare O'Lake

Tough crowd tonight...get me an Irish Whisky...I'm dyin' out here...make it a triple!

"And there's another triple, and if this keeps up I'll be having one myself." - Atlanta Braves Radio Announcer Skip Carey

re: #208 HoosierHoops

Everybody ready For St. Paddy's day parties tonight?
1 1/2 hours till It's time to bring the house down...

I'm taking it easy tonight. Just two beers, staying home watching tv. I Overdid it this weekend and haven't had a good night's sleep in a couple of days.

re: #214 HoosierHoops

What is it?
What's the matter?
I'll make it Coach...
Ok..Get the ball to Jimmy
/Hoosiers

I love you guys

re: #208 HoosierHoops

Everybody ready For St. Paddy's day parties tonight?
1 1/2 hours till It's time to bring the house down...

Hey Hoops - I missed your post about the bracket challenge. Praire said that it wasn't possible. I started to set up a group on CBS & it seemed like I would be able to do that & then provide people here the password, somehow. Clue me in! I've got to fill them out stat! Tks!

re: #118 Charles

I hope the Obama administration captures Bin Laden alive, just so I can savor the exploding wingnut heads. Imagine the furious spinning and conspiracy theories that would ensue. It would be highly amusing, if you enjoy that kind of humor.

I thought you were under the impression (as I am) that all the tapes from Bin Laden post 2003-2004 or so were just a real life Weekend at Bernie's.

re: #217 Mad Al-Jaffee

I'm taking it easy tonight. Just two beers, staying home watching tv. I Overdid it this weekend and haven't had a good night's sleep in a couple of days.

It's a beautiful day here..My buddy is firing up the BBQ grill..
Good friends..Great food..Cold beer...

re: #199 keloyd

I'm kind of proud that we do that, but what happens in a scenario like my granddad's, where Jap soldiers were surrendering, but the occasional one has a live grenade in his shirt, then he gets close enough to take a few of us out with him? Does the offer of surrender preclude our shooting them anyway because there's some reasonable suspicion that they're using our laws against us? Did y'all get into that level of hair-splitting?

I think once one side starts abusing the rules, or there are even rumors they are abusing the rules among the soldiers, the odds of successfully surrendering goes way down. One it quickly devolves into tit-for-tat where neither side tends to take prisoners at the local level (company and beneath) of command. World War 2 included a known "feud" between Canadian soldiers and the SS unit they were fighting in/near Caen in Normandy.

There have been studies that indicate there is considerable risk in spontaneous surrenders of small groups (compared to negotiated ones which often involve larger formations). Whether or not your attempt to give up is accepted or not is a somewhat risky proposition since you simply can't be sure what the current attitude is of the soldiers that you are attempting to surrender to.

Also, if you've been putting up a furious defense to that point that has been inflicting casualties the last minute "I quit" could be pushing your luck a great deal. There's a ton of emotion running on the battlefield, and once that happens the rationality of the situation is often running in second place. I recall anecdotes about German machine gunners in WW1 being killed out of hand when they attempted to surrender once their position was out-flanked after they had held up an advance for a couple of hours.

re: #118 Charles

I hope the Obama administration captures Bin Laden alive, just so I can savor the exploding wingnut heads. Imagine the furious spinning and conspiracy theories that would ensue. It would be highly amusing, if you enjoy that kind of humor.

The wailing and gnashing of teeth will set off earthquakes, cause volcanoes to erupt, and turn the Moon to blood.
The wingnuts can't go back on their wish to see OBL dead, as so many have on their support for the Iraq war, but they can dismiss it as some kind of evil stunt to get the One re-elected.

re: #216 SteveC

"And there's another triple, and if this keeps up I'll be having one myself." - Atlanta Braves Radio Announcer Skip Carey

Skip Carey and Ernie Johnson. I never missed a game back then. RIP, skip!

re: #223 Shiplord Kirel

The wailing and gnashing of teeth will set off earthquakes, cause volcanoes to erupt, and turn the Moon to blood.
The wingnuts can't go back on their wish to see OBL dead, as so many have on their support for the Iraq war, but they can dismiss it as some kind of evil stunt to get the One re-elected.

The timing!!1! The timing!!!1!

re: #219 Stanley Sea

Hey Hoops - I missed your post about the bracket challenge. Praire said that it wasn't possible. I started to set up a group on CBS & it seemed like I would be able to do that & then provide people here the password, somehow. Clue me in! I've got to fill them out stat! Tks!

CBS posts your real name. along with your nic and opens up your email to other members...Nothing to stop a stalker from joining by clicking on the link to the group... Given more time and searching we could have had a group bracket challenge at LGF.. We'll perfect a site for fantasy baseball and use it year round for other sports...

Breaking News - got this on a sekrit ZOG mailing list:

The UC Berkeley Student Senate is voting on a divestment (from Israel) referendum tonight at 8:30 PM at the ASUC Senate Meeting.

I wish I had a website to send ya'll to but UCB Tikvah hasn't updated their blog for some time now.

re: #226 HoosierHoops

CBS posts your real name. along with your nic and opens up your email to other members...Nothing to stop a stalker from joining by clicking on the link to the group... Given more time and searching we could have had a group bracket challenge at LGF.. We'll perfect a site for fantasy baseball and use it year round for other sports...

Ah, well that sucks. Thanks for trying.

Holder's reaction reveals even he is uncomfortable with the administration's completely irrational approach to the issue (civilian trials for some, military tribunals for others, indefinite detention and hellfire missiles for the rest). As a couple of commenters above have suggested, Holder doesn't even want to think about what happens if we catch OBL alive (or KSM is acquitted/has charges dismissed). But, ah, that's kind of his job.

Just because we can try these people in civilian court doesn't mean it's a good idea. OBL captured alive and being told to remain silent while we bring him his lawyer is the perfect illustration of why it's a stupid, politically-motivated policy.

re: #224 cliffster

Skip Carey and Ernie Johnson. I never missed a game back then. RIP, skip!

"And the next contestant in the Home Run Derby is Cliffster, who lives in a post office box in Deerlick, Indiana." -- Skip

I got a postcard selected in the Home Run Derby once. The deal was if a Brave hit a home run, you'd win a minimum of $500 if the Brave batting hit a home run. If no one hit a homer that game the total would go up $50 per game until there was a winner.

The total was up to $2000 when they picked me! But my batter was Rafael Balliard (2 home runs lifetime) and the So and So popped up on the first pitch. Skip hadn't even finished saying my name yet!

re: #221 HoosierHoops

I'll definitely be grilling some time this weekend. And hopefully getting my bike out.

re: #227 eclectic infidel

Breaking News - got this on a sekrit ZOG mailing list:

The UC Berkeley Student Senate is voting on a divestment (from Israel) referendum tonight at 8:30 PM at the ASUC Senate Meeting.

I wish I had a website to send ya'll to but UCB Tikvah hasn't updated their blog for some time now.

Hey man, too busy speaking truth to the power!

re: #230 SteveC

"And the next contestant in the Home Run Derby is Cliffster, who lives in a post office box in Deerlick, Indiana." -- Skip

I got a postcard selected in the Home Run Derby once. The deal was if a Brave hit a home run, you'd win a minimum of $500 if the Brave batting hit a home run. If no one hit a homer that game the total would go up $50 per game until there was a winner.

The total was up to $2000 when they picked me! But my batter was Rafael Balliard (2 home runs lifetime) and the So and So popped up on the first pitch. Skip hadn't even finished saying my name yet!

No one ever won because you had to hit two home runs in one at-bat. PIMF!

re: #230 SteveC

I remember Rafe when he played for the Pirates. Another in a long line of Pirate infielders who could field real well but not hit a lick. Belliard hit above the Mendoza line, mind you, but basically had zero power.

re: #229 harrylook

True that. In today's Washington Post , General McChrystal outright contradicts AG Holder via phone from Kabul. Worth a read, for those interested in being intellectually honest and keeping informed rather than just automatically assuming Holder is right and everyone who remains a registered Republican is wrong. Some folks still have a lingering case of Cheney Derangement Syndrome.

BTW, I don't care one way or the other about UBL being brought to justice. In battle, or in a military tribunal. It just needs doing. But since I am not a member of Special Forces or the Clandestine service, I have the good sense to leave that decision up to the folks managing that task. Rather than get in a lather over the political 'cowboy' Eric Holder.

Let's all keep our powder dry and see how it plays out.

re: #234 oaktree

I remember Rafe when he played for the Pirates. Another in a long line of Pirate infielders who could field real well but not hit a lick. Belliard hit above the Mendoza line, mind you, but basically had zero power.

Yeah, his nickname was Pac Man, because he'd swallow any little white dot that came his way! :)

re: #234 oaktree

I remember Rafe when he played for the Pirates. Another in a long line of Pirate infielders who could field real well but not hit a lick. Belliard hit above the Mendoza line, mind you, but basically had zero power.

He could run like the wind, though

re: #26 KingKenrod

Holder claims to be crafting a fair wartime detention policy, but deflects tough questions by simply dismissing them as not possible. For instance, he refused to consider the idea that KSM could be found not guilty if put on trial in the US. But it's a real possibility, and OBL being captured alive is a real possibility (though in reality he's probably dead). I think the AG should answer these questions. "That could never happen" = famous last words.

That already has happened.

Three times in the last 8 years.

In the military tribunal.

Anyone else a fan of newsmap?

I often have it set to show only national, international news.

Here's a quick description of it from the site's developer:
[Link: marumushi.com...]

Newsmap is an application that visually reflects the constantly changing landscape of the Google News news aggregator.

A treemap visualization algorithm helps display the enormous amount of information gathered by the aggregator. Treemaps are traditionally space-constrained visualizations of information. Newsmap's objective takes that goal a step further and provides a tool to divide information into quickly recognizable bands which, when presented together, reveal underlying patterns in news reporting across cultures and within news segments in constant change around the globe.

Newsmap's objective is to simply demonstrate visually the relationships between data and the unseen patterns in news media.

Google News automatically groups news stories with similar content and places them based on algorithmic results into clusters. In Newsmap, the size of each cell is determined by the amount of related articles that exist inside each news cluster that the Google News Aggregator presents. In that way users can quickly identify which news stories have been given the most coverage, viewing the map by region, topic or time. Through that process it still accentuates the importance of a given article.

re: #205 RogueOne

I think he is, he's as liberal as they come (besides Bernie Sanders) so his vote really shouldn't come as a surprise. The HCR doesn't go as far as he would like but like he said, to his constituents "something is better than nothing".

Yes, Kucinich really is what people like to pretend Obama is. He's a real progressive. And yes, he'll vote for something he's not a hundred and ten on because his constituents want him to--something that is seen as a virtue when the politician votes for something one wants, and a vice when they vote against.

re: #239 simoom

Anyone else a fan of newsmap?

I often have it set to show only national, international news.

Here's a quick description of it from the site's developer:
[Link: marumushi.com...]

That is very cool. I've bookmarked it, thanks!!

re: #235 Ebetty

Hers is what McChrystal said in the WaPo article

Wow. No. If Osama bin Laden comes inside Afghanistan," he told reporters by telephone from Kabul, "we would certainly go after trying to capture him alive and bring him to justice. I think that is something that is understood by everyone."

How many think Osama bin Laden will show his sorry ass in Afghanistan?

re: #235 Ebetty

True that. In today's Washington Post , General McChrystal outright contradicts AG Holder via phone from Kabul. Worth a read, for those interested in being intellectually honest and keeping informed rather than just automatically assuming Holder is right and everyone who remains a registered Republican is wrong. Some folks still have a lingering case of Cheney Derangement Syndrome.

BTW, I don't care one way or the other about UBL being brought to justice. In battle, or in a military tribunal. It just needs doing. But since I am not a member of Special Forces or the Clandestine service, I have the good sense to leave that decision up to the folks managing that task. Rather than get in a lather over the political 'cowboy' Eric Holder.

Let's all keep our powder dry and see how it plays out.

The General did not know about Holders comment, and the question was tossed in unexpectedly. Holder just said capturing him alive was unrealistic and I agree. If we find him, he'll get a missile with his name on it, or be killed in a fire fight or be killed by his own guards. I don't picture him coming out with his hands in the air and spoiling his martyrdom.

re: #235 Ebetty

True that. In today's Washington Post , General McChrystal outright contradicts AG Holder via phone from Kabul.

Where's the contradiction? The Attorney General didn't articulate a change in our policy toward capturing or killing Bin Laden, he instead commented that the chances of him being captured alive were slim.

re: #239 simoom

Anyone else a fan of newsmap?

I often have it set to show only national, international news.

Here's a quick description of it from the site's developer:
[Link: marumushi.com...]

very cool. thanks!

re: #239 simoom

Anyone else a fan of newsmap?

I often have it set to show only national, international news.

Here's a quick description of it from the site's developer:
[Link: marumushi.com...]

For fun, hit the sports tab or the entertainment tab.

re: #243 avanti

The General did not know about Holders comment, and the question was tossed in unexpectedly. Holder just said capturing him alive was unrealistic and I agree. If we find him, he'll get a missile with his name on it, or be killed in a fire fight or be killed by his own guards. I don't picture him coming out with his hands in the air and spoiling his martyrdom.

I want the body. If we don't get the body, it only intensifies the King Arthur "I will return" routine he's undoubtedly already establishing.

re: #143 cliffster

My town is about 3/4's drunk by now.[Link: kcirishparade.com...]

Benazir Bhutto: Bin Laden was Murdered @ 2:15
broadcast November 2007

re: #244 simoom

Where's the contradiction? The Attorney General didn't articulate a change in our policy toward capturing or killing Bin Laden, he instead commented that the chances of him being captured alive were slim.

Yep, and if Holder had said we'll make every effort to capture him alive, we'd be talking about what a pussy Holder is.

re: #250 avanti

Yep, and if Holder had said we'll make every effort to capture him alive, we'd be talking about what a pussy Holder is.

Oof. Touché...

re: #208 HoosierHoops

Everybody ready For St. Paddy's day parties tonight?
1 1/2 hours till It's time to bring the house down...

Did you do green hair?

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, Kucinich really is what people like to pretend Obama is. He's a real progressive. And yes, he'll vote for something he's not a hundred and ten on because his constituents want him to--something that is seen as a virtue when the politician votes for something one wants, and a vice when they vote against.

I agree, mostly. I've never been sure where the "Obama is a moderate" meme started. I don't see any evidence in his previous career or his current positions that would classify him as anything other than to the left of Bill Clinton, an actual moderate.