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1699 comments
1 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 12:55:09pm

Gaaaa! I'm going to go mow the lawn. Bye.

2 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 12:57:01pm

Poor Ojoe!

Steny Hoyer was quite inspiring, reading the quotes of the presidents since Roosevelt.

3 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 12:58:23pm

/Hurrrumph.

4 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 12:58:51pm
5 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 12:59:24pm

The Dems seems really confident. Looks like they have this locked up.

6 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:00:50pm

Tweet of the day

Policy is best decided by small groups of people in short pants, yelling.

7 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:02:33pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Can only hope.

8 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:05:54pm

re: #6 Killgore Trout

Tweet of the day

Sounds like a t-ball league.

9 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:06:12pm

If this bill passes, I wonder how many people will complain that it will enable people, regardless of their stance now or their ideology, to retain their health insurance coverage when faced with a catastrophic illness that would have been canceled as is common now. Or those that will be able to obtain health insurance because of this legislation when now they would be refused because of preexisting conditions.

10 Virginia Plain  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:06:13pm

re: #6 Killgore Trout

Tweet of the day

Succinctly put. Did those idiot Tea Partiers think they could influence the course of action? Well, actually yes they did. They motivated politicians to vote for this bill, and showed the American people what nut bags they are.

11 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:07:00pm

BTW, here is the manager's amendment:

[Link: docs.house.gov...]

I think someone on twitter said it's only 11 pages long, maybe the republicans can read it by Sunday.

12 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:07:37pm

....biggest deficit reduction measure in history

....put us on the path to fiscal responsibility

Let's hope he's right.

13 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:08:13pm

re: #10 Virginia Plain

Succinctly put. Did those idiot Tea Partiers think they could influence the course of action? Well, actually yes they did. They motivated politicians to vote for this bill, and showed the American people what nut bags they are.

Agreed. The Tea Parties convinced me that the Dem reform plan is probably a pretty good bill.

14 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:10:26pm

Their rhetoric hurt them too. I mean death panels as spouted by Palin was just ridiculous and absurd.

15 The Curmudgeon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:11:16pm

There are two ways to look at Obama's speech. Either they don't yet have the votes, so he's making a desperation play; or they know they have the votes, and he's doing this to claim the credit for himself. I can't figure it out, so 'll just have to wait for the vote.

16 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:12:57pm

"don't do it for me. .. do it for all those people out there struggling."

Great, he's breaking out the Ellie Light letters now.

17 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:13:25pm

Catcall from the right: "Keep your government hands off our government!!!1!!"

18 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:13:33pm

Menacing

.... Rep. Barney Frank got an uglier version of the treatment. Just after Frank rounded a corner to leave the building, an older protestor yelled "Barney, you faggot." The surrounding crowd of protestors then erupted in laughter.

At one point, Capitol police officer threatened to throw a group of protestors out of the building but that only seemed to inflame them more; and apparently none were ejected.


CBC member: Health bill protesters called Rep. Lewis the N-word

Rep. Andre Carson (D-Ind.) claimed Saturday that healthcare protesters at the Capitol directed racial epithets at Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) as he walked outside.

Carson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus along with Lewis, told The Hill that protesters called Lewis the N-word.

Tea Party protesters held a rally outside the Capitol on Saturday, which included speeches by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) and actor Jon Voight, and then proceeded into the halls to lobby members at the 11th hour.

Lewis was one of the leaders of the civil rights movement alongside Martin Luther King. Jr.

19 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:14:11pm

re: #10 Virginia Plain

Succinctly put. Did those idiot Tea Partiers think they could influence the course of action? Well, actually yes they did. They motivated politicians to vote for this bill, and showed the American people what nut bags they are.

Not so much, I think. Their small numbers, in a city where every imaginable fringe group holds protests on a daily basis, suggests that their actual impact was nil.

20 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:15:20pm

re: #15 The Curmudgeon

There are two ways to look at Obama's speech. Either they don't yet have the votes, so he's making a desperation play; or they know they have the votes, and he's doing this to claim the credit for himself. I can't figure it out, so 'll just have to wait for the vote.

So it's either desperation or an attempt to claim credit? Both sound like negative assessments regardless of what you're hearing -- that is if you're actually listening to the speech. This wouldn't be the first time a president made a speech in favor of his legislative goals.

21 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:15:22pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Menacing

CBC member: Health bill protesters called Rep. Lewis the N-word

The "Real Americans"?

22 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:15:28pm

re: #15 The Curmudgeon

Nah, They're claiming to have things pretty wrapped up. If they thought there was a chance at failure they'd be back peddling or blaming Republican obstructionism or something. If it doesn't pass they're going to have egg on their face.

23 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:16:19pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Menacing

Oh you know it's just a plot by Rahm to make the right look bad. It's only liberals who are homophobes and racists.

24 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:16:29pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Nah, They're claiming to have things pretty wrapped up. If they thought there was a chance at failure they'd be back peddling or blaming Republican obstructionism or something. If it doesn't pass they're going to have egg on their face.

In fairness, they've been saying this thing is in the bag for a year now. They've GOT to get this thing done, or the egg will be beyond all measure.

25 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:17:41pm

"I've been in your shoes; I know what it is to take a tough vote."

26 Virginia Plain  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:17:48pm

I wish I were in Austin right now. Here's a sample of what SXSW has:

27 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:17:57pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Nah, They're claiming to have things pretty wrapped up. If they thought there was a chance at failure they'd be back peddling or blaming Republican obstructionism or something. If it doesn't pass they're going to have egg on their face.

The number of Democrats they needed to pin down to a "Yes" vote was small, and easily within bribery range. Watch the earmarks.

28 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:18:40pm

re: #26 Virginia Plain

I wish I were in Austin right now. Here's a sample of what SXSW has:


[Video]

Eh, it's cold here today; won't deter the revellers, but it's not the best weather we've had for it.

Love South By

29 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:19:48pm

CBC member: Health bill protesters called Rep. Lewis the N-word

What's next?

Rep. Wilson: "You lie, n*****!"

30 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:20:59pm

re: #29 Cato the Elder

CBC member: Health bill protesters called Rep. Lewis the N-word

What's next?

Rep. Wilson: "You lie, n***!"

Folk coming unhinged. Ugly, and, in light of what it is that they're all worked up about, rather puzzling. If you're gonna get your hate on, it should at least be for something worth trading your dignity for.

31 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:21:01pm

re: #29 Cato the Elder

What's next?

Rep. Wilson: "You lie, n***!"


We're already pretty close. I wouldn't be surprised.

32 Virginia Plain  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:21:10pm

re: #28 Guanxi88

Yeah, well it couldn't be colder than it is in Colorado right now.

33 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:22:44pm

re: #32 Virginia Plain

Yeah, well it couldn't be colder than it is in Colorado right now.

Well, I should hope so. South by's a great thing for us here; a real chance for Austin to shine, and a great boost to the local economy.

34 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:22:54pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Menacing

You see this yet?

Tea Party sign threatens gun violence if health care passes.

I enlarged the image which you can see here.

35 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:23:49pm

Oh geeze, go to #tcot on twitter for all the fun.

This vote has not happened yet. Don't be surprised at what happens overnight. KEEP FIGHTING! We may need to overthrow this government! #tcot

This President embarrassing. "Not bound to win, bound to be true", to my Marxist core. In this case a win/win, if he wins. #tcot #hcr

36 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:23:51pm

How Mr. Obama will feel if HCR does not pass.

37 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:24:32pm

"We are not bound to win...."

translation - it's in the bag.

38 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:24:39pm

re: #10 Virginia Plain

Succinctly put. Did those idiot Tea Partiers think they could influence the course of action? Well, actually yes they did. They motivated politicians to vote for this bill, and showed the American people what nut bags they are.

...which is of course their perfect right as citizens, we should add.

39 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:25:24pm

Wait... how did he do that whole thing without a teleprompter??? ///

40 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:26:07pm

re: #39 recusancy

Wait... how did he do that whole thing without a teleprompter??? ///

memorized it, mayhap?

41 Buck  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:27:17pm

re: #29 Cato the Elder

CBC member: Health bill protesters called Rep. Lewis the N-word

What's next?

Rep. Wilson: "You lie, n***!"

Why wait? Let's just say he did anyway. Fake but accurate...
I mean if it is reported that some guy in a crowd can do it, then clearly this is what what the Republican House member must have meant.

/

42 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:28:04pm

re: #29 Cato the Elder

CBC member: Health bill protesters called Rep. Lewis the N-word

What's next?

Rep. Wilson: "You lie, n***!"

Rep. John Lewis of Georgia? That's low. I met him once, years ago. I was working on a Habitat For Humanity project, when he and his entourage strode through site, gladhanding the volunteers.

43 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:28:08pm

Overall, a nice little speech. Didn't soar too awfully much, nor did it devolve into a Clintonian empathy-orgy. Struck a good balance between rallying the troops and preparing them for the worst eventuality.

On the whole, I rank it as one of the better short performances in the genre.

44 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:28:34pm

re: #34 Gus 802

You see this yet?

Tea Party sign threatens gun violence if health care passes.

I enlarged the image which you can see here.

Thanks for posting that. That sign was behind the stage with the speakers at one point. I had a hard time finding a good link for it. Nice find.

45 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:29:09pm

re: #34 Gus 802

You see this yet?

Tea Party sign threatens gun violence if health care passes.

I enlarged the image which you can see here.

Oh dear Lord.

46 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:29:37pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Thanks for posting that. That sign was behind the stage with the speakers at one point. I had a hard time finding a good link for it. Nice find.

YW. Yeah, it looked too small so I did a quick color correction and enlarged it. Now it's easily readable.

47 ryannon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:29:38pm

re: #34 Gus 802

You see this yet?

Tea Party sign threatens gun violence if health care passes.

I enlarged the image which you can see here.

From my years as a left-wanger in the 60s, I can assure you that the bearers of signs like these are being photographed by the Feds from all kinds of vantage-points and from every angle. They'll be identified, investigated (either overtly or covertly) and those judged to be dangerous won't be able to sneeze without a G-Man knowing about it.

48 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:30:18pm

re: #41 Buck

Why wait? Let's just say he did anyway. Fake but accurate...
I mean if it is reported that some guy in a crowd can do it, then clearly this is what what the Republican House member must have meant.

/

Buck off.

49 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:30:19pm

re: #34 Gus 802

You see this yet?

Tea Party sign threatens gun violence if health care passes.

I enlarged the image which you can see here.

What's the picture on the upper right of the sign?

50 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:30:42pm

re: #34 Gus 802

You see this yet?

Tea Party sign threatens gun violence if health care passes.

I enlarged the image which you can see here.

Can you tell what the photo is on the sign?

51 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:31:29pm

re: #49 recusancy

re: #50 Stanley Sea

Can't tell. Almost looks like a head of sorts.

52 ryannon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:32:26pm

re: #42 The Sanity Inspector

Rep. John Lewis of Georgia? That's low. I met him once, years ago. I was working on a Habitat For Humanity project, when he and his entourage strode through site, gladhanding the volunteers.

Hey, I was arrested with him. Just the two of us in a little Southern town. He was immediately sprung, I spent two weeks in a segregated county jail. The first night, the boys came around my locked cell to tell me that they were going to kill me in the morning with the sheriff's approval.

53 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:33:12pm

re: #43 Guanxi88

Overall, a nice little speech.

Sums up the man so far for me.

54 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:33:18pm

Lefties having fun interviewing Tea Partiers from earlier this week....
THE TEA PARTY & THE CIRCUS - Final Healthcare Reform Protest


Ignorance on parade.

55 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:33:36pm

re: #52 ryannon

Hey, I was arrested with him. Just the two of us in a little Southern town. He was immediately sprung, I spent two weeks in a segregated county jail. The first night, the boys came around my locked cell to tell me that they were going to kill me in the morning with the sheriff's approval.

What??? Expand on that. That's a hell of a story.

56 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:33:44pm

re: #53 Ojoe

Sums up the man so far for me.

Yup. Never let it be said I can't be fair to the man.

57 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:33:59pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Lefties having fun interviewing Tea Partiers from earlier this week...
THE TEA PARTY & THE CIRCUS - Final Healthcare Reform Protest

[Video]
Ignorance on parade.

Don't take the blue pill!!11!!!!

/

58 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:35:21pm

Alcee Hastings weighs in:

59 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:35:22pm

re: #52 ryannon

Hey, I was arrested with him. Just the two of us in a little Southern town. He was immediately sprung, I spent two weeks in a segregated county jail. The first night, the boys came around my locked cell to tell me that they were going to kill me in the morning with the sheriff's approval.

(((Ryannnon)))

60 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:36:02pm

re: #58 SixDegrees

Alcee Hastings weighs in:


[Video]

An honest man, ya gotta give him that much.

61 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:36:46pm

John Lewis is really one few people I could say in elected politics that I consider a hero these days. I mean the guy literally was beaten up fighting for civil rights. He knows perhaps more than anyone in Congress the dangers of racism.

62 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:36:52pm

re: #48 Cato the Elder

Buck off.

*wiping Golden Pheasant pilsner off the screen*

63 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:36:52pm

re: #59 Cato the Elder

(((Ryannnon)))

Cato - I'm shocked that an antique Roman would stoop to the hug, even in its virtual form. hand-clasp, sir; remember thy station.

64 ryannon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:36:53pm

re: #55 recusancy

What??? Expand on that. That's a hell of a story.

On the overnight thread - I don't want to take up space here. He was a serious and exceptional individual. We were both young, and we got along well.

65 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:37:50pm

re: #63 Guanxi88

Cato - I'm shocked that an antique Roman would stoop to the hug, even in its virtual form. hand-clasp, sir; remember thy station.

I always keep a dagger up my toga, just in case...

66 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:38:07pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

John Lewis is really one few people I could say in elected politics that I consider a hero these days. I mean the guy literally was beaten up fighting for civil rights. He knows perhaps more than anyone in Congress the dangers of racism.

He had his skull fractured by police in Selma. He is a true hero.

67 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:38:29pm

re: #65 Cato the Elder

I always keep a dagger up my toga, just in case...

I thought you were just glad to see me! ;)

68 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:39:02pm

re: #49 recusancy

What's the picture on the upper right of the sign?

re: #50 Stanley Sea

Can you tell what the photo is on the sign?

Found it! It's a picture of the Capitol Building:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

69 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:40:10pm

re: #66 recusancy

He had his skull fractured by police in Selma. He is a true hero.

That's right. An amazing man. Another guy I admired before he passed away was Tom Lantos of California.

70 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:40:16pm

re: #68 Gus 802

Nice find.

71 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:40:57pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Nice find.

Yep. This one does the trick. Clear photo and now we see there were two of these signs.

72 ryannon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:43:16pm

re: #59 Cato the Elder

(((Ryannnon)))

You would have loved that jail: it was pure Faulkner. But that first night was pure hell - I was sure they were going to beat my brains in. They said it had all been worked out - resisting this or that and 'falling' down a flight of concrete stairs. In fact, they had they home-made billies made out of sawed-off wooden stuff. The doors on the block were opened electronically every morning a floor below. Not a guard on our floor, and that's when they said they'd rush me.

I was a very lucky guy. A few years later, people like me ended up missing.

73 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:43:27pm

#tcot tweetarama

watch the expressions of Obama right now all you see is deceit, defiance, arrogance, fear, distraction, & distortion #tcot

WTF Fox news! First Estrich now you show that ugly old hag Ferraro too? #tcot

Check this out~Obama helped fund Alinsky Academy [Link: bit.ly...] #tcot #obama #tlot #tyrant #ampat #teaparty #sgp #p2 #ocra #ucot #gop

Top Conservatives On Twitter - land of the crazy.

74 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:43:34pm

re: #65 Cato the Elder

I always keep a dagger up my toga, just in case...

And you still kiss the ladies, to make sure they haven't had any wine, eh?

I'm onto you guys.

75 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:43:42pm

re: #71 Gus 802

Yep. This one does the trick. Clear photo and now we see there were two of these signs.

hehe... a bunch of old overweight men in polo shirts. That's basically the demo.

76 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:44:12pm

I wonder how these people would feel if they actually lived in countries that not only had strong Socialist parties but had Socialist parties in power. They think that every aspect of socialism is like the former USSR. Completely oblivious to social democracy's strong tradition in countries that we are aligned with including gasp Britain and Israel.

77 blueraven  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:44:31pm

re: #71 Gus 802

I wonder how Scott Brown feels about being associated with this bunch? Not that he would approve but obviously these people think of him as their silver bullet.

78 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:45:46pm

re: #73 Stanley Sea

#tcot tweetarama

Top Conservatives On Twitter - land of the crazy.

Whilst the other #tcot (Top Catholics on Twitter) are busily exposing St. Augustine as a CINO.

79 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:45:50pm

re: #77 blueraven

I wonder how Scott Brown feels about being associated with this bunch? Not that he would approve but obviously these people think of him as their silver bullet.

His flags were waving behind the podium.

The Second Revolution Flags.

80 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:46:11pm

re: #76 HappyWarrior

Hell, in the UK our Conservative Party *believes* in Social Justice..........making the rich pay taxes and healthcare for everyone.

81 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:47:02pm

re: #76 HappyWarrior

They wold probably be bitching about the local council not letting them change the paint color of their front door.

82 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:47:19pm

re: #77 blueraven

I wonder how Scott Brown feels about being associated with this bunch? Not that he would approve but obviously these people think of him as their silver bullet.

I doubt he would approve. That's one of the most blatantly pro-violence signs I've seen to date.

83 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:47:44pm

wold? would.

84 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:49:02pm

OK, one last tcot tweet. Then I'm showering:

dems are pulling the plug on America...on the eve of the spring soltice....same week Hitler killed the rep. of Germany...#tcot

85 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:49:15pm

I wonder, assuming, as appears likely, that this thing will happen, what these protestors are going to do now? I mean, the opposition to the proposal has animated and guided them thus far, but once that's up, will they find something new to engage them, or will it be back to golf?

86 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:49:42pm

re: #84 Stanley Sea

I need a shower after reading that........

87 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:49:53pm

re: #78 Cato the Elder

Poor St. Augustine. He is one of my personal heros.

88 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:50:09pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Lefties having fun interviewing Tea Partiers from earlier this week...
THE TEA PARTY & THE CIRCUS - Final Healthcare Reform Protest

Ignorance on parade.

Did she really say "drinking the Coca-Kool-Aid"?!

89 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:50:22pm

re: #85 Guanxi88

I wonder, assuming, as appears likely, that this thing will happen, what these protestors are going to do now? I mean, the opposition to the proposal has animated and guided them thus far, but once that's up, will they find something new to engage them, or will it be back to golf?

Hopefully they aren't golfing at their local socialist public municipal golf course.

90 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:50:33pm

re: #87 prairiefire

Poor St. Augustine. He is one of my personal heros.

Eh, him you can keep - silly Platonist that he was.

Gimme Aquinas any day; now THAT's an intellectual work-out.

91 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:51:31pm

OT -

would like to thank StanleySea for taking my kharma to 2000...............

92 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:52:15pm

re: #89 recusancy

Hopefully they aren't golfing at their local socialist public municipal golf course.

How do you get there?

Well, first you have to take the Socialist Interstate Highway then get off at exit 666 and take the Socialist Local Road for three miles. Can't miss it. There's a Socialist Post Office right across the street.

/

93 keithgabryelski  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:52:20pm

re: #88 Cato the Elder

Did she really say "drinking the Coca-Kool-Aid"?!

what? i just watched that -- she said "purple kool-aid".

94 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:52:32pm

re: #91 wozzablog

That's probably one of the most unselfconsciously gracious things I've seen here in a while. have an upding.

95 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:53:24pm

re: #92 Gus 802

Past the red properties on the left covered by mandated federal flood insurance..........?

96 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:53:29pm

re: #91 wozzablog

OT -

would like to thank StanleySea for taking my kharma to 2000...

Why, you are very welcome & I'm honored!

97 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:54:17pm

re: #94 Guanxi88

Have an upding for "unselfconciously".........

and thanks.

98 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:54:18pm

re: #95 wozzablog

Past the red properties on the left covered by mandated federal flood insurance...?

Yep. Watch your speed though because the Local Socialist Police have a lot of speed traps around those parts.

/

99 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:54:36pm

I wonder what they think of Socialist Police Departments and Fire Departments. I don't think many people realize that police departments and fire departments especially used to be private and it would be really ugly. There's a great seen in Martin Scorcese's Gangs of New York where rival fire companies are actually fighting each other while a house burns down.

100 blueraven  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:54:37pm

re: #82 Gus 802

I doubt he would approve. That's one of the most blatantly pro-violence signs I've seen to date.

Oh I totally agree. He seems like a very decent, level headed person.

101 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:55:10pm

re: #93 keithgabryelski

what? i just watched that -- she said "purple kool-aid".

Then she's conflating two events. It the was purple acid at Woodstock you were warned against taking. I don't know what color the Kook-Aid was at Jonestown.

That is one historically mixed-up old twit.

102 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:55:28pm

re: #98 Gus 802

But if you crash the socialist fire department have the heavy cutting equipment..........

103 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:56:30pm

re: #101 Cato the Elder

Then she's conflating two events. It the was purple acid at Woodstock you were warned against taking. I don't know what color the Kook-Aid was at Jonestown.

That is one historically mixed-up old twit.

not the purple, the brown...

104 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:56:31pm

re: #96 Stanley Sea

Niema problema.

105 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:56:45pm

re: #101 Cato the Elder

At Jonestown they drank Strawberry Fla-Vor-Aid.

106 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:57:01pm

re: #98 Gus 802

Yep. Watch your speed though because the Local Socialist Police have a lot of speed traps around those parts.

/

And those socialist police will save you from those glorious enterprising privateers trying commandeer your car stereo.

107 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:57:52pm

re: #106 recusancy

And those socialist police will save you from those glorious enterprising privateers trying commandeer your car stereo.

But if they get caught, eventually they'll find themselves in the Socialist Penal House.

/

108 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:58:24pm

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...] He's interesting to me for being a very early Christian.

You are correct, St. Thomas built on Augustine's ideas and brought forward more evolved Christian theology.

109 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:58:26pm

As one who has put himself and those around him through the wringer over pointless and petty stuff, allow me to offer a few words of advice to the opponents and protestors we've seen lately. This stuff is applicable across-the-board, and covers nearly any contingency:

1) There's no point in getting worked up over it. Your input was neither solicited nor required for this thing. The constellations and planets have aligned in such a manner as to bring about this circumstance; you can no more affect it than you can the precession of the equinox, so learn to live with it.

2) It's folly in its purest form to mistake modern politics for statesmanship or soul-craft; that's not what we do here, and we're not equipped to even begin to sketch something like that out.

3) there's a cycle to these things, an ebb and flow, a pendulum's swing, as it were. You can no more predict the direction or the trend than you can pick the kentucky Derby winner 3 years out. Roll with the punches.

4) No matter what it is, it's not the worst thing that has ever happened to this or any other nation. Even if your worst fears are realized, remember that thus has it been ever; you just never noticed it before.

110 keithgabryelski  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:58:35pm

re: #101 Cato the Elder

Then she's conflating two events. It the was purple acid at Woodstock you were warned against taking. I don't know what color the Kook-Aid was at Jonestown.

That is one historically mixed-up old twit.

it was brown acid at woodstock.

111 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 1:59:25pm

re: #99 HappyWarrior

I wonder what they think of Socialist Police Departments and Fire Departments. I don't think many people realize that police departments and fire departments especially used to be private and it would be really ugly. There's a great seen in Martin Scorcese's Gangs of New York where rival fire companies are actually fighting each other while a house burns down.

Some things the government can & should do better. And some things not.

112 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:00:33pm

re: #107 Gus 802

But if they get caught, eventually they'll find themselves in the Socialist Penal House.

/

/ahhhh, finally true equality...

113 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:01:16pm

re: #111 brookly red

Some things the government can & should do better. And some things not.

I agree with that. It's just some people act as if we've been totally free market capitalist for much of our history. Absolute free market capitalism bothers me as much as absolute Socialism and Communism.

114 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:02:21pm

re: #112 brookly red

/ahhh, finally true equality...

But first they have to face there day in Socialist Court. And if they can't afford an attorney the court will appoint them a Socialist Defense Attorney.

/OK, I'm getting carried away here.

/

115 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:02:56pm

They have replaced Kool-Aid with Kook-Aid.

Have some! (It turns your face orange.)

116 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:03:25pm

re: #111 brookly red

Some things the government can & should do better. And some things not.

So you like some socialism?

117 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:04:09pm

re: #115 Cato the Elder

They have replaced Kool-Aid with Kook-Aid.

Have some! (It turns your face orange.)

[Looks over at John Boehner.]

/

118 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:04:36pm

re: #117 Gus 802

[Looks over at John Boehner.]

/

They must use the same spray.

119 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:05:08pm

re: #101 Cato the Elder

Then she's conflating two events. It the was purple acid at Woodstock you were warned against taking. I don't know what color the Kook-Aid was at Jonestown.

That is one historically mixed-up old twit.

Brown acid at Woodstock. And although it was actually Flavor-Aid at Jonestown, the phrase "Drink the Kool-Aid" has stuck. And it was, indeed, grape flavored.

120 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:05:47pm

re: #117 Gus 802

Thanks for looking so i don't have to do it.

He is the only elected republican of colour in either House...........

121 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:06:08pm

re: #117 Gus 802

It's not quite oompa loompa orange.

122 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:06:18pm

re: #119 SixDegrees

Brown acid at Woodstock. And although it was actually Flavor-Aid at Jonestown, the phrase "Drink the Kool-Aid" has stuck. And it was, indeed, grape flavored.

Ah. I take it all back and declare myself a historically mixed-up old twit.

123 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:07:04pm

re: #121 pingjockey

Close though.

124 simoom  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:07:21pm

From Congressmen Mike Pence's Flickr Feed, the Congressman with "U.S. 2nd Revolution" flags at his back:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Not too exciting, but it's interesting they decided to have them up on the stage as the main backdrop to the speakers.

125 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:07:27pm

re: #122 Cato the Elder

Ah. I take it all back and declare myself a historically mixed-up old twit.

Well, in fairness, when one passes the 2 millennia mark, the memory loses some of its sharpness.

126 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:07:37pm

re: #118 recusancy

They must use the same spray.

The after image of seeing orange is blue. So if you close your eyes after seeing an orange face you'll see a blue face! That's why Boehner might make some people turn blue!

Seriously. Except for that last part.

127 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:07:51pm

re: #116 recusancy

So you like some socialism?

Of course, things like the military, police & fire depts., peoples air traffic control etc. I can even see some virtue in public education... the common good and all that. Health care? No thank you.

128 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:08:19pm

re: #127 brookly red

Of course, things like the military, police & fire depts., peoples air traffic control etc. I can even see some virtue in public education... the common good and all that. Health care? No thank you.

Health isn't a common good?

129 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:09:15pm

re: #123 wozzablog
Heh! Haven't seen anyone who does the spray tan thing who doesn't have that orange tint. Must be something in the spray that reacts with the skin that does it.

130 Joanne  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:10:19pm

re: #127 brookly red

Health care? No thank you.

Why? What do health insurance companies add to the healthcare system?

131 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:10:23pm

re: #127 brookly red

Of course, things like the military, police & fire depts., peoples air traffic control etc. I can even see some virtue in public education... the common good and all that. Health care? No thank you.

No on health care and the common good? What about local clinics, public hospitals, emergency care, etc? All of those are currently running. What about Medicaid and Medicare? Those are de facto health care systems already in place. What about the Veteran Administration hospitals and health care?

132 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:10:47pm

I don't particularily like to be the poster of bad stuff, but as an FYI, here's Rep. John Lewis' response:

Asked if racial epithets were yelled at him, Lewis responded, "Yes but it's OK. I've heard this before in the 60s. A lot of this is just downright hate."

[Link: thehill.com...]

133 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:10:53pm

re: #124 simoom

From Congressmen Mike Pence's Flickr Feed, the Congressman with "U.S. 2nd Revolution" flags at his back:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Nice.
I have a feeling that that image is why FOX zoomed in when a Congress Critter was speaking.

134 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:11:09pm

re: #128 recusancy

Health isn't a common good?

Of course it is, BUT so is housing. Should we all live in projects?

135 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:12:02pm

re: #130 JustJay


they never get between you and your doctor............

136 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:12:20pm

re: #131 Gus 802
The VA does not take care of all vets. I found this out while unemployed. I made too much money the year before for VA to have anything to do with me.

137 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:13:26pm

re: #134 brookly red

Of course it is, BUT so is housing. Should we all live in projects?

No. But we have the option to live in the projects.

138 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:13:31pm

re: #130 JustJay

Why? What do health insurance companies add to the healthcare system?

Well if left alone to provide a service, they provide competition & accountability.

139 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:13:41pm

re: #131 Gus 802

Also vaccination campaigns.

140 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:13:58pm

re: #136 pingjockey

The VA does not take care of all vets. I found this out while unemployed. I made too much money the year before for VA to have anything to do with me.

Really? I didn't know that they did that. That's not right.

141 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:14:01pm

re: #134 brookly red

Thats spurious.

Projects are there for those who can't afford to move up..... thats what the HCR Public Option was meant to do too.

People who want to keep their 2 car garage, three bedroom places in the gated communities can if they want.................

142 Joanne  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:14:14pm

re: #135 wozzablog

Right. Health insurance companies, the **real** death panels.

144 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:15:15pm

re: #137 recusancy

No. But we have the option to live in the projects.

and receive Medicaid... I prefer not to.

145 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:15:20pm

re: #142 JustJay

And i'll bet they never lose the original copies of long form birth certificates..........

146 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:15:21pm

This legislation won't nationalize health care. That's a myth.

147 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:15:29pm

re: #141 wozzablog

Altho' we need less of that in general. The American mania with owning a house is a blight.

148 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:15:47pm

re: #130 JustJay

Why? What do health insurance companies add to the healthcare system?

Currently, they're the only player in the provider-patient-coverage cohort that acts to lower costs.

149 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:16:21pm

re: #138 brookly red

lol. Look up 'monopoly' and 'cartel'.

150 Joanne  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:16:43pm

re: #138 brookly red

Well if left alone to provide a service, they provide competition & accountability.

Wow! In what world do you live? Do you seriously believe that?

I'm floored. Stunned. Have you missed the stories of health insurer abuse just in the last year? Apparently so.

151 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:17:03pm

re: #127 brookly red

Of course, things like the military, police & fire depts., peoples air traffic control etc. I can even see some virtue in public education... the common good and all that. Health care? No thank you.

Tell me that when your kid comes down with lymphoma and you find out it isn't covered because he once had the mumps.

152 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:17:09pm

re: #149 windsagio

lol. Look up 'monopoly' and 'cartel'.

Health insurance companies are exempt from anti-trust laws... Hmmm, wonder why...
;)

153 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:17:10pm

re: #148 SixDegrees

And again, whats with the sudden outpouring of love for the scummy coverage-denying, gouging insurance companies?

They're the only ones to lower costs!?!?!

154 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:17:45pm

re: #147 windsagio

Same in Britiain.

Thatcer sold off many of our council estates/projects........... and well, who'd have thunk there would immediately be a housing shortage?

The free market - working for you.

155 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:17:57pm

re: #152 Varek Raith

Health insurance companies are exempt from anti-trust laws... Hmmm, wonder why...
;)

Tort reform now!111!11!

156 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:17:58pm

O politicians, I wish you did not have the power to put other people and other generations into hock.

157 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:18:20pm

re: #147 windsagio

Altho' we need less of that in general. The American mania with owning a house is a blight.

it depends on the house. I was boring my fellow lizards here yesterday with a study I'm making of the cost of housing (home ownership) here in the US, using census data. Overall, the median new house, as a multiple of median income, as increased from 3X median income to closer to 5X median income over the past 40 or so years.

I'm working now to calculate median mortgage payments as a percentage of monthly take-home, to check my suspicions in that regard, but it does appear that we're spending a larger portion of our income on our houses.

158 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:18:20pm

re: #149 windsagio

And the GOP are voting against measures to sort that out as we speak........

159 recusancy  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:18:26pm

re: #144 brookly red

and receive Medicaid... I prefer not to.

Then you're for expanding medicare and medicaid? Because right now you don't have the option to get those because you don't qualify.

160 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:18:31pm

re: #140 Gus 802
I didn't like it but did understand. THe VA is overwhelmed with WWII and Korean vets plus the number of wounded vets from the ME wars who need help. So in their eyes if you aren't disabled, on a fixed income or completely indigent you're on your own. Not to mention, like any good gov't agency the VA is over staffed with drones doing nothing, producing nothing, and contributing nothing. BTW, the local VA clinic here has no one in the paperwork/admin dept who is a vet.

161 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:19:20pm

re: #157 Guanxi88

The problem is that most people don't actually need houses, and its eating up our land and resources (gas and water, for instance) at a totally unacceptable rate.

162 Joanne  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:19:25pm

re: #148 SixDegrees

Currently, they're the only player in the provider-patient-coverage cohort that acts to lower costs.

If we had a publicoption or Medicare for all the costs would drop like a rock.

163 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:19:31pm

re: #136 pingjockey

((pingjockey))
Nice to "see" you!

164 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:19:37pm

re: #157 Guanxi88

Britain is the same, the average house now costs 15x yearly earnings at the lower end. People with good jobs were having to take out 100%+ mortgages to live anywhere near their job.

165 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:20:11pm

re: #164 wozzablog

Britain is the same, the average house now costs 15x yearly earnings at the lower end. People with good jobs were having to take out 100%+ mortgages to live anywhere near their job.

And people wonder why we don't live as well as previous generations?

166 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:20:26pm

Lost in this debate is the actually

cost effective approach.

167 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:20:47pm

Looking over the various news report on this, I suspect this is going to pass. That's good.

168 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:20:57pm

re: #162 JustJay

US costs are 30% higher for covering fewer people per capita than the rest of the western democracies combined.

169 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:20:59pm

re: #163 Floral Giraffe
Hey there!
((FG))

170 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:21:05pm

re: #158 wozzablog

Theres the group of democratic and independant senators from the 'state of insurance company' that are helping them too, just to be fair :P

171 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:21:21pm

Again the lines are drawn, of course we need some reforms but I don't see this particular piece of legislation as providing them to my satisfaction. We can discuss the fine points till hell freezes over, but what is the point? The lines are drawn.

172 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:21:22pm

re: #161 windsagio

The problem is that most people don't actually need houses, and its eating up our land and resources (gas and water, for instance) at a totally unacceptable rate.

Well, that side of it, of course. But in places where open land is cheap, it makes some measure of sense to dodge the flat/townhome thing if possible.

173 simoom  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:21:44pm

re: #145 wozzablog

And i'll bet they never lose the original copies of long form birth certificates...

"Where is the long form birth certificate?" sign from today's rally:
[Link: twitpic.com...]

174 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:21:44pm

re: #147 windsagio

Not so, IMHO. Having your own place is a very important part of freedom.

175 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:22:29pm

re: #167 Walter L. Newton

Looking over the various news report on this, I suspect this is going to pass. That's good.

They better hurry because at the rate I'm going I'll end up in a hospital surrounded by a team of doctors who will say to themselves, "we can rebuild him."

/

176 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:22:35pm

re: #154 wozzablog

Same in Britiain.

Thatcer sold off many of our council estates/projects... and well, who'd have thunk there would immediately be a housing shortage?

The free market - working for you.

plenty of houses at wholesale prices... how do you feel about living in Detroit?

177 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:23:04pm

re: #174 Ojoe

Depending on the place, its the kind of freedom that makes everything a little bit worse .

Just because you have that kind of right doesn't mean its good to take advantage of it :P

178 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:23:21pm

re: #174 Ojoe

Thats a luxury to those who can't find anywhere to even rent.

179 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:23:47pm

re: #176 brookly red

plenty of houses at wholesale prices... how do you feel about living in Detroit?

Place is becoming re-wilded something fierce, here and there. A great opportunity, as I see it, for a new generation of pioneers. Not for me, but for certain hardy souls, just the thing.

180 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:23:52pm

re: #176 brookly red

cheap housing in Love canal and Centralia (PA) too >>


//actually not in the latter, but its funny to say >

181 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:23:53pm

re: #173 simoom

"Where is the long form birth certificate?" sign from today's rally:
[Link: twitpic.com...]

The design of their signs makes me think they have a day-care center or something.

182 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:24:00pm

re: #153 windsagio

And again, whats with the sudden outpouring of love for the scummy coverage-denying, gouging insurance companies?

They're the only ones to lower costs!?!?!

Who else is acting to lower costs? The doctors and hospitals? The pharmaceutical companies? The patients?

The patients would be the most likely group to do so, but they're typically insulated from the actual costs by insurance plans, and don't much care if a procedure costs $50 or $5000 if all they see is a $25 copay either way.

Insurance companies actively work to reduce the cost of medical services. I'm not aware of any other players at the moment who do, or who do so much.

For a very detailed look at health insurance, how it came to be the way it is and related topics like prescription copays and their effect on drug prices, I highly recommend this episode of This America Life. Very well done, and often surprising.

183 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:24:15pm

re: #175 Gus 802

They better hurry because at the rate I'm going I'll end up in a hospital surrounded by a team of doctors who will say to themselves, "we can rebuild him."

/

Does it cover cyberization? I'd so be for that!

184 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:24:34pm

re: #165 Guanxi88

We live less well because of the growth of the rentier class.

185 Joanne  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:24:56pm

re: #168 wozzablog

US costs are 30% higher for covering fewer people per capita than the rest of the western democracies combined.

For lesser care. Only if you have a good plan do you get good care. And all those who say Go to the emergency room...we ALL pay for that in higher premiums. Not to mention there's no long term care in the ER.

186 simoom  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:25:10pm

Another misspelled sign:
[Link: twitpic.com...]

Stop Dictator Hussen Obama

The Party of Know

187 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:25:34pm

re: #160 pingjockey

I didn't like it but did understand. THe VA is overwhelmed with WWII and Korean vets plus the number of wounded vets from the ME wars who need help. So in their eyes if you aren't disabled, on a fixed income or completely indigent you're on your own. Not to mention, like any good gov't agency the VA is over staffed with drones doing nothing, producing nothing, and contributing nothing. BTW, the local VA clinic here has no one in the paperwork/admin dept who is a vet.

The Pentagon also does its part to keep down costs by discharging vets with serious head injuries etc. under the heading "pre-existing condition", thus denying them any and all VA benefits for battle-related symptoms like PTSD.

Because, you know, those pre-existing conditions like emotional volatility, psych problems, debilitating phobias, etc., were there at the time of enlistment but somehow didn't manifest until Pvt. Joe Johnson made the mistake of getting too close to an IED one fine Baghdad morning.

But I must be lying, because nothing's too good for our men and women in uniform.

Epic feh.

188 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:25:37pm

re: #159 recusancy

Then you're for expanding medicare and medicaid? Because right now you don't have the option to get those because you don't qualify.

what part of prefer not to did you not understand?

189 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:25:41pm

More government!

Yay!

190 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:25:50pm

re: #186 simoom

Another misspelled sign:
[Link: twitpic.com...]

MORANS!11!11
;)

191 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:25:58pm

re: #178 wozzablog

The situation you mention is a bad one & shows how this country has lost its common let's pull together spirit.

192 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:26:07pm

re: #186 simoom

Another misspelled sign:
[Link: twitpic.com...]

Nothing like a dictator who allows you keep your misspelled signs.

193 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:26:11pm

re: #36 wrenchwench

How Mr. Obama will feel if HCR does not pass.

[Video]

If it does not pass, I'll feel like the dragonfly.

194 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:26:16pm

re: #173 simoom

"Where is the long form birth certificate?" sign from today's rally:
[Link: twitpic.com...]

What is a "long form" BC anyway?

(Asking this question on the way out the door to take my lazy ass 18 year old, who is still living at home and on our insurance whilst not taking responsibility for himself, to work)
/

195 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:26:36pm

re: #184 Ojoe

We live less well because of the growth of the rentier class.

There's no denying that, sad to say. To take but two examples:

1) Taxation. here, property tax funds most things, and, amazingly enough, since most voters aren't property owners, property taxes continue upward every year;

2) Rental income has become a factor in the valuation of residential real estate. Quite often, it's a better deal, economically, to commit a unit to rental use than to try to sell it for owner-occupancy. Feeds into the problem in (1), above, of course.

196 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:26:44pm

re: #182 SixDegrees

I grant you that pharma is part of the question.

The thing is the way our pharmaceuticals and insurance works is the main difference between our healthcare and the rest o the first world, and as has been said, we spend waaay more money to cover a smaller% of the people.

Given that circumstance, the suspects for the higher costs would be~~?

197 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:28:04pm

re: #195 Guanxi88

All this will eventually lead to either some sort of revolution or a lot of Eloi.

198 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:28:12pm

re: #194 webevintage

What is a "long form" BC anyway?


That's the form that's long enough to satisfy all birther questions. It's issued by the Republic of Erewhon.

199 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:28:18pm

All this insurance cost/benefits is very interesting to me. Just got the copy of the bill sent to my insurance for cancer surgery(neck) and a 4 day stay at UW medical Center....25,000 bucks. The room was 1440.00 a day. It's gonna be interesting when my creditors find out we'll be declaring bankruptcy due to me being out of work for recovery and no money coming in.

200 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:28:22pm

re: #162 JustJay

If we had a publicoption or Medicare for all the costs would drop like a rock.

Not at all clear. The Medicaid reform contained in the current HCR bill is there because so many doctors were pulling out of the system due to tightly controlled reimbursement that many urban areas were left with few if any doctors willing to participate in the system, leaving a whole lot of Medicaid recipients without access to any care at all. Sure, if you extend a governmental iron fist over all medical care, it's possible to control costs completely, although that raises a host of other questions over quality of care, and the difference between perceived "costs" and actual costs.

Meanwhile, in the present system, I'm not aware of anyone other than the insurance companies who act to restrain costs.

201 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:28:27pm

re: #183 Varek Raith

Does it cover cyberization? I'd so be for that!

202 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:28:29pm

I also would prefer not to eat in any establishment that hails it self 'home of the peoples burger"...

203 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:28:45pm

re: #195 Guanxi88

There's no denying that, sad to say. To take but two examples:

1) Taxation. here, property tax funds most things, and, amazingly enough, since most voters aren't property owners, property taxes continue upward every year;

2) Rental income has become a factor in the valuation of residential real estate. Quite often, it's a better deal, economically, to commit a unit to rental use than to try to sell it for owner-occupancy. Feeds into the problem in (1), above, of course.

And during a recession, when people back-burner their property taxes, government services at the local level get squeezed. They can't just up and sell bonds to the Chinese to cover the shortfall.

204 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:29:10pm

re: #191 Ojoe

The situation you mention is a bad one & shows how this country has lost its common let's pull together spirit.

16 y/o scotch........... if you are buying ;-)

205 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:29:32pm

re: #195 Guanxi88

I'm not a big fan of the largescale social engineering that what I'm about to say might imply, but~ The fact that its getting harder and more expensive to own a home doesn't change the fact that the 'everyone must own a home' model is deeply flawed. Smaller units closer in (or closer to public transit) would be better for everyone.

In places like LA, or LV, things like lawns are (or shojuld be) borderline criminal.

Or maybe we can just compromise on the idea of 'no new house building' >>

206 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:29:38pm

re: #197 Ojoe

All this will eventually lead to either some sort of revolution or a lot of Eloi.

To quote Madge the Manicurist from those old Palmolive ads:

"you're soaking in it now."

207 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:29:55pm

re: #187 Cato the Elder
It's enough to make me cry and has in frustration and rage. It just boggles the mind sometimes the thought processes the bean counters at the VA use.

208 suchislife  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:30:12pm

re: #43 Guanxi88

Overall, a nice little speech. Didn't soar too awfully much, nor did it devolve into a Clintonian empathy-orgy. Struck a good balance between rallying the troops and preparing them for the worst eventuality.

On the whole, I rank it as one of the better short performances in the genre.

Ezra Klein just tweeted
"Asked WH for text on Prez's speech. They said it wasn't pre-written. He was just talking. It's like there's a teleprompter IN HIS BRAIN."

[Link: twitter.com...]

209 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:30:22pm

re: #204 wozzablog

I'll buy some Grappa.

210 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:30:31pm

re: #199 pingjockey

All this insurance cost/benefits is very interesting to me. Just got the copy of the bill sent to my insurance for cancer surgery(neck) and a 4 day stay at UW medical Center...25,000 bucks. The room was 1440.00 a day. It's gonna be interesting when my creditors find out we'll be declaring bankruptcy due to me being out of work for recovery and no money coming in.

IIRC, that's the most common reason for declaring bankruptcy. So nobody will be surprised.

{{ping}}

211 simoom  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:30:31pm

[Link: tweetphoto.com...]

Pelosi Pimps the People

[Link: twitpic.com...]

Pelosi Congress
More Tricks than a Prostitute

[Link: twitpic.com...]

2010 Obama Heritage Tour
~ Inspire by ~
Karl Marx
Hawaii
Indonesia
Kenya
"ReDiscovering My Roots"
212 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:31:27pm

re: #205 windsagio

I'm not a big fan of the largescale social engineering that what I'm about to say might imply, but~ The fact that its getting harder and more expensive to own a home doesn't change the fact that the 'everyone must own a home' model is deeply flawed. Smaller units closer in (or closer to public transit) would be better for everyone.

In places like LA, or LV, things like lawns are (or shojuld be) borderline criminal.

Or maybe we can just compromise on the idea of 'no new house building' >>

/what is this Israel now???

213 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:31:33pm

re: #208 suchislife

gotta admit, that's a freakin' great line.

214 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:31:47pm

re: #210 wrenchwench
Really? Did not know that.

215 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:32:22pm

re: #207 pingjockey

It's the marketisation - always think of the bottom line. How much money can you save per procedure - not how many patients can you save per $$.

216 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:32:23pm

re: #199 pingjockey

All this insurance cost/benefits is very interesting to me. Just got the copy of the bill sent to my insurance for cancer surgery(neck) and a 4 day stay at UW medical Center...25,000 bucks. The room was 1440.00 a day. It's gonna be interesting when my creditors find out we'll be declaring bankruptcy due to me being out of work for recovery and no money coming in.

Very sorry to hear that.

217 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:32:23pm

re: #206 Guanxi88

More Eloi I think.

Better to go the route of:
Man turns into Scotsman.

218 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:32:31pm

re: #212 brookly red

hahaha I like that!

I just hate urban sprawl, and one of hte reasons that Portland is so much nicer (for me) than Seattle, is because they have strict zoning laws, and you can actually get out of the city easily.

219 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:32:33pm

re: #205 windsagio

I'm not a big fan of the largescale social engineering that what I'm about to say might imply, but~ The fact that its getting harder and more expensive to own a home doesn't change the fact that the 'everyone must own a home' model is deeply flawed. Smaller units closer in (or closer to public transit) would be better for everyone.

In places like LA, or LV, things like lawns are (or shojuld be) borderline criminal.

Or maybe we can just compromise on the idea of 'no new house building' >>

Real trick is to inform and remind people of what a house is and should be, and what it is not, and to help them keep the practicality of the thing foremost in their minds. For some, they may realize, as we did, that a smaller, older house makes more sense than a newer one, and that, in many cases, one gets far better value from the older designs than the new ones.

As for lawns and suchlike, well, I think they're wasteful in the extreme, and I was shocked at how green Vegas' neighborhoods were (such a waste in a thirsty land), but i doubt one could do anything to stop the folly, short of pricing water according to its actual value.

220 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:32:47pm

re: #214 pingjockey

Really? Did not know that.

Yes, and I hope you don't feel bad about it. It's not your fault.

221 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:32:49pm

Intrade has 'Obamacare' health reform to become law before midnight 30 Jun

86.6 bid by 87.00 ask

222 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:34:49pm

re: #196 windsagio

I grant you that pharma is part of the question.

The thing is the way our pharmaceuticals and insurance works is the main difference between our healthcare and the rest o the first world, and as has been said, we spend waaay more money to cover a smaller% of the people.

Given that circumstance, the suspects for the higher costs would be~~?

Doctors and pharmaceutical companies.

Take an hour and listen to that This American Life episode. It's well worth it, and often surprising. Insurance companies have had very good success containing and even reducing the cost of prescriptions, which is the focus of an entire segment.

The real problem with insurance, which is also addressed in the episode, is that insurance hides the costs from both providers and recipients, creating enormous distortions in the marketplace. An interesting idea, presented through the example of prescription copays, is to use some sort of proxy cost mechanism so consumers are exposed to some sort of cost, without being crippled by it.

223 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:35:02pm

re: #220 wrenchwench
I kinda do and don't. Shit happens and it just happened to land on me, it's life and that's just the way it is.

224 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:36:13pm

re: #207 pingjockey

It's enough to make me cry and has in frustration and rage. It just boggles the mind sometimes the thought processes the bean counters at the VA use.

In these cases it doesn't even get to the VA. The Pentagon docs make the decision at the time the wounded vet is discharged.

There is an appeals process, but it ain't pretty.

Can you imagine signing up to serve your country, getting nearly blown up (and two of your buddies actually dying, say), coming back with permanent ringing in your ears, night sweats, nightmares, and debilitating insomnia, for example, and then being told you were unstable to begin with? Discharged with no benefits and told to go to the fucking emergency room when things get bad?

225 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:36:27pm

re: #204 wozzablog

The people who can help get the housing crisis sorted in the UK are the absentee tenants, second home owners, buy-to-let landlords and the owners of decaying properties who refise to relaese them - at financial benefit to themselves to ease the burden.


People like them never had community spirit. They believed Magrat when she said there was no such thing as society.

In the UK - conservatives killed society - or tried to, for electoral reasons. People in communities tended to vote Labour - if they destroyed the communities they could ease out labour.

226 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:37:49pm

re: #224 Cato the Elder

Pro soldier but not Pro veteran.

Govt policy.

227 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:38:13pm

re: #223 pingjockey

I kinda do and don't. Shit happens and it just happened to land on me, it's life and that's just the way it is.

Make sure the kids don't feel bad about it either. There is no reason for that. It's just how things work the way they are set up now. Might be different in the future.

228 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:38:38pm

re: #224 Cato the Elder
I didn't know it was Pentagon docs! That sounds like orders from upstairs somewhere to me. If you are accepted into the military and pass all the damn tests and boot camp you are not "unstable" to begin with. What a crock.

229 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:38:55pm

re: #224 Cato the Elder

One of the main planks in the Modern Whig platform is to take much better care of veterans.

BBL

230 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:38:59pm

re: #219 Guanxi88

I think we can get along on that, I guess the other thing I'd add, is that you shouldn't make owning a house and property a moral value in and of itself.

For some people (say you have alot of kids) its really necessary, I'll admit that :)

231 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:40:17pm

re: #227 wrenchwench
The only folks feeling bad will be a couple of credit card companies, who got freakin' bailout money anyway!

232 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:40:21pm

re: #225 wozzablog

Not doubting you, but I'd never heard that.

Did she really say there was no society? That's pretty wacky.

233 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:40:26pm

re: #226 wozzablog

Pro soldier but not Pro veteran.

Govt policy.

Exactly why I don't want them touching MY health care... I don't want my current usefulness to be a factor is deciding my care, and like it or not that is what government does.

234 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:40:51pm

re: #229 Ojoe

I bet that's a gimme in almost every party (at least they'd say it :p)

235 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:40:53pm

Jamaica, Jamaica...

Welcome to Jamrock


- Damian Marley

Them na know no ting at tall

236 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:41:37pm

re: #233 brookly red

you can say that with a straight face despite all the spurious reasons insurance companies use to deny coverage?

237 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:41:37pm

re: #233 brookly red

I think that's a bit harsh, but it'd still be better than "We'll take any excuse to deny you care, whether you're useful or not!"

238 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:41:40pm

re: #230 windsagio

I think we can get along on that, I guess the other thing I'd add, is that you shouldn't make owning a house and property a moral value in and of itself.

For some people (say you have alot of kids) its really necessary, I'll admit that :)

Is housing a human right?

239 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:41:49pm

re: #236 wozzablog

Jinx!

240 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:41:50pm

re: #199 pingjockey

All this insurance cost/benefits is very interesting to me. Just got the copy of the bill sent to my insurance for cancer surgery(neck) and a 4 day stay at UW medical Center...25,000 bucks. The room was 1440.00 a day. It's gonna be interesting when my creditors find out we'll be declaring bankruptcy due to me being out of work for recovery and no money coming in.

Before you do that, see if you can get them to put you on some kind of hardship deferral. It may involve talking to someone higher up than the phonebot in the call center.

{{pingjockey}}
/and congratulations on your survival

241 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:42:03pm

re: #232 windsagio

Not doubting you, but I'd never heard that.

Did she really say there was no society? That's pretty wacky.

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

Prime minister Margaret Thatcher, talking to Women's Own magazine, October 31 1987

242 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:42:16pm

re: #231 pingjockey

The only folks feeling bad will be a couple of credit card companies, who got freakin' bailout money anyway!

They will be the LEAST surprised.

243 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:42:20pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

Is housing a human right?

Not yet.

244 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:43:13pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

Lord, that's a toughy. I'd say trying to guarantee shelter is or should be a major part of the social contract.

On the other hand, there'll always be a % that just aren't meaningfully houseable (usually for mental illness reasons)

245 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:43:27pm

re: #219 Guanxi88

Real trick is to inform and remind people of what a house is and should be, and what it is not, and to help them keep the practicality of the thing foremost in their minds. For some, they may realize, as we did, that a smaller, older house makes more sense than a newer one, and that, in many cases, one gets far better value from the older designs than the new ones.

As for lawns and suchlike, well, I think they're wasteful in the extreme, and I was shocked at how green Vegas' neighborhoods were (such a waste in a thirsty land), but i doubt one could do anything to stop the folly, short of pricing water according to its actual value.

Much of the cost of new homes is the luxury that people want in them - the fancy bathroom and kitchens particularly.

Habitat for Humanity builds very nice, well-built modest homes at very reasonable cost. But few people want that.

Guanxi - I'm with you, my house is a smaller, older home, we have a few things to fix, but the house is mine, free and clear, and fixing it costs less than a mortgage on a new house.

246 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:43:57pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

Is housing a human right?

Is housing a human right when one is no longer able to build their own habitat or structure such as a log cabin on what was once range land or prairies?

247 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:44:13pm

re: #240 The Sanity Inspector
Thanks. UW medical and the local clinic here will be taken care of. It's the plastic and a couple other things that are biting us in the ass!

248 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:44:23pm

re: #241 Guanxi88

So yeah. What a nut she was.

249 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:44:25pm

re: #232 windsagio

Yup.

She also said in the same speech our neighbours are an afterthought.

250 suchislife  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:44:27pm

re: #241 Guanxi88

I appreciate you finding the quote and posting it, but I really can't bring myself to upding that.

251 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:44:38pm

re: #236 wozzablog

you can say that with a straight face despite all the spurious reasons insurance companies use to deny coverage?

say what?

re: #226 wozzablog
Pro soldier but not Pro veteran.
Govt policy.
Exactly why I don't want them touching MY health care... I don't want my current usefulness to be a factor is deciding my care, and like it or not that is what government does.

you got a problem with the way government handles things talk to 226...

252 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:44:39pm

Paleo-principles do not apply to the modern landscape.

253 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:44:41pm

re: #245 reine.de.tout

Habitat Homes, and I've looked at a ton of them, are some of the best, most efficiently-designed residences being made today. They meet every purpose for which they are intended without having an 'institutional' feel to them.

254 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:44:51pm

re: #233 brookly red

Exactly why I don't want them touching MY health care... I don't want my current usefulness to be a factor is deciding my care, and like it or not that is what government does.

That's bullshit. I worked for the Department of Energy for 13 years. I will assure you, the were many, many useless people working there and their value to the department had nothing to do with the fact that they had a job that was near next to impossible to be fired from.

Our government reveres uselessness.

255 FullRoller  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:45:03pm

re: #25 Guanxi88

"I've been in your shoes; I know what it is to take a tough vote."

Right...... How many times did he vote "present"?

256 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:45:04pm

re: #250 suchislife

exactly. It was a dark time in politics (in both the US and Britian :p)

257 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:45:19pm

re: #237 windsagio

I think that's a bit harsh, but it'd still be better than "We'll take any excuse to deny you care, whether you're useful or not!"

it is what it is.

258 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:45:39pm

re: #199 pingjockey

You might also contact the hospital, to see if they can help you work out the situation. Debt reduction means some payment, bankruptcy means none. Heck they might find a job for you there, to help!
Good luck!

259 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:46:14pm

re: #257 brookly red

actually it isn't that at all, but even if it were it'd be better than what we have now.

I'll spare you the whole spiel about generalizing from single anecdotes, I'm sure you've heard it before. :p

260 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:46:17pm

re: #246 Gus 802

Is housing a human right when one is no longer able to build their own habitat or structure such as a log cabin on what was once range land or prairies?

Gus... I asked... I don't have an answer.

261 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:46:26pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

Having somewhere to live rented or otherwise at all and owning a second property purely for the purpose of investment are not inclusive concepts.

262 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:46:37pm

re: #254 Walter L. Newton

That's bullshit. I worked for the Department of Energy for 13 years. I will assure you, the were many, many useless people working there and their value to the department had nothing to do with the fact that they had a job that was near next to impossible to be fired from.

Our government reveres uselessness.

you do have a point, but they only revere their own uselessness.

263 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:47:29pm

re: #258 Floral Giraffe
Thanks, we already set a thing up with the hospital. It's just everything else has to come 2nd.

264 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:47:32pm

The sooner people, as individuals and as nations, realize the benefit and wisdom of living beneath their means, the sooner the long-drawn-out slide and decline can be, if not reversed, at least delayed.

It's wanting to live like kings that gets people into trouble, and even if you can pay for a thing, it doesn't mean you can afford it.

265 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:47:49pm

re: #261 wozzablog

Schadenfreude is bad, but I admit I got a kick out of seeing all the mcmansion speculators taking a bath when the bubble burst.

Those guys are crabs in society's pubes.

266 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:48:04pm

re: #251 brookly red

Under the HCR plan for the public option........ it's the same hospitals, doctors and nurses recomending care.

It was a plan that would not deny anyone coverage for any reason.

Your argument makes no sense.

267 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:48:15pm

re: #253 Guanxi88

Habitat Homes, and I've looked at a ton of them, are some of the best, most efficiently-designed residences being made today. They meet every purpose for which they are intended without having an 'institutional' feel to them.

Yes, indeed.
They've held up better in some storms than newer McMansion-style homes have.

268 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:48:19pm

re: #256 windsagio

exactly. It was a dark time in politics (in both the US and Britian :p)

This is a dark times in US politics. A President who can not lead shoving legislation through so he can leave his mark on society.

269 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:48:43pm

re: #264 Guanxi88

Oh so sadly painfully true. On the other hand, us being a debt-based society makes the rest of teh world rich! Too bad its to our own detriment >>

270 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:48:54pm

re: #261 wozzablog

Having somewhere to live rented or otherwise at all and owning a second property purely for the purpose of investment are not inclusive concepts.

I don't know what you are talking about? I ask a simple question. I shelter a human right? That's all. I don't have an answer.

271 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:49:04pm

re: #265 windsagio

Schadenfreude is bad, but I admit I got a kick out of seeing all the mcmansion speculators taking a bath when the bubble burst.

Those guys are crabs in society's pubes.

Too bad we had to take a blowtorch to the area to get rid of them.

272 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:49:33pm

re: #260 Walter L. Newton

Gus... I asked... I don't have an answer.

OK, I don't have an answer either. I think a good approach is to think of it in terms of giving people the ability to access housing. That is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which is difficult to attain in a service economy to being with let alone during a recession. And during better times in between this cycle of boom and bust it is also difficult to attain when greed has driven employment and manufacturing overseas.

273 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:49:37pm

re: #271 Guanxi88

Sometimes the solution is worse than the problem :P

274 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:50:16pm

re: #272 Gus 802

Again, (Thatcher aside) its worth thinking of it in terms of the social contract, not 'human rights'.

275 reine.de.tout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:50:38pm

re: #264 Guanxi88

The sooner people, as individuals and as nations, realize the benefit and wisdom of living beneath their means, the sooner the long-drawn-out slide and decline can be, if not reversed, at least delayed.

It's wanting to live like kings that gets people into trouble, and even if you can pay for a thing, it doesn't mean you can afford it.

The Roi has always insisted we live below our means. I will admit there have been times when it's grated at me - but right now, I'm perfectly happy I was able to retire at age 54, and we are financially secure and will be able to send the kid to college without her having to take out student loans. Can't ask for much better than that.

276 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:50:47pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

Is housing a human right?

How about property insurance? Should there be an entitlement for that kind of insurance? Say a struggling small mom and pop business is scraping bottom in this recession. They can't afford insurance on their building anymore, so they let it drop. Then it burns down. There they are, knocked flat with a massive financial hit, the labor of possibly decades gone in an hour. They set up a fund for donations at the neighborhood bank, but there's no way they can make good that way. Ought not the government, say maybe the SBA, step in and make them whole, rather than having them spend the next ten years delivering pizzas trying to claw their way back?

/Thoughts prompted by a real life happenstance in my general area.

277 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:50:47pm

re: #270 Walter L. Newton

I don't know what you are talking about? I ask a simple question. I shelter a human right? That's all. I don't have an answer.

Interesting... it is if you are a prisoner of war, but not if you are a working person.

278 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:50:53pm

re: #254 Walter L. Newton

Our government reveres uselessness.

Which is why I am so concerned about this major increase in the scope of our government. It scares the hell out of me. There are very few examples of past success stories.

279 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:50:55pm

re: #268 Lateralis

Yes that's totally why he's doing it.

Health care reform is all about Barry.

Yup, that's it.

280 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:51:10pm

re: #270 Walter L. Newton

Basic shelter that accomodates ones needs - i would postulate - is a human right.


Owning property for the purposes of speculation that drives up a massive bubble is not a right.

simple enough?

281 Kruk  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:51:20pm

re: #80 wozzablog

Hell, in the UK our Conservative Party *believes* in Social Justice...making the rich pay taxes and healthcare for everyone.

The average UK Conservative MP would be considered a raving Communist agitator in the US. Sad, but true.

282 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:52:37pm

re: #132 Stanley Sea

I don't particularily like to be the poster of bad stuff, but as an FYI, here's Rep. John Lewis' response:

[Link: thehill.com...]

It (and other instances of hate) are making the rounds of the newswires:

Tea Partiers Heckle Dems With Racist, Homophobic Slurs

Tea Partiers protesting the health care bill in Washington hurled racist and homophobic epithets at two Democratic Congressmen and reportedly tried to spit on a black Democratic legislator prior to President Obama's speech before House Dems this afternoon.

Rep. John Lewis was called "the N-word" when he was on the floor of the House earlier today by "a heckler from the Tea Party, a protestor," Kristie Grecho, a press secretary for House Majority Whip James Clyburn, said this afternoon. She added that another protestor allegedly tried to spit upon Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, another black Democrat, as he was walking from the Longsworth House building to attend Obama's speech. In a separate incident today, Rep. Barney Frank, who is openly gay, was called a "fag" as he was leaving the Longsworth building.

[...]

283 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:52:40pm

re: #278 Racer X

What are you saying bro, doesn't it work in France and in Europe?!

/

284 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:53:06pm

re: #282 freetoken

An entire movement's slip is showing.

285 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:53:11pm

re: #281 Kruk

The average UK Conservative MP would be considered a raving Communist agitator in the US. Sad, but true.


Sad for whom?

286 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:53:15pm

re: #275 reine.de.tout

Exactly - just because you can afford something does not always make it the best thing to buy.

I could by a pair of brand new calvin klein jeans, or 5 pairs of jeans that'll last me more than 5 times as long and still cost less.

Depends if you are fixated on labels or status. those who are not tend to live better.

287 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:53:29pm

Firefox easter egg:
type about:robots in the URL bar.

288 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:53:31pm

re: #275 reine.de.tout

The Roi has always insisted we live below our means. I will admit there have been times when it's grated at me - but right now, I'm perfectly happy I was able to retire at age 54, and we are financially secure and will be able to send the kid to college without her having to take out student loans. Can't ask for much better than that.

I've finally managed to persuade the Bitter Half of the need to do this. It took better than a decade of back-to-back "look, we'll get through this" financial crises for her to understand the wisdom of getting as much as you can for as little as possible, and she' finally embraced the down-sized life (which is really just a better version of how our parents and grandparents, the ones who built and sustained the West, lived) as a positive good.

289 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:53:52pm

re: #281 Kruk

Very true.

The Tory party has spent the last decade running away from her.

290 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:54:02pm

re: #278 Racer X

Which is why I am so concerned about this major increase in the scope of our government. It scares the hell out of me. There are very few examples of past success stories.

Heh, because conservatives have been so good on reducing government.
;)

291 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:54:24pm

re: #279 windsagio

Yes that's totally why he's doing it.

Health care reform is all about Barry.

Yup, that's it.

Congress would not be considering the actions they are if it was not about his Presidency going in the toilet the first year and calling it Health Care reform. This is transformation of a system that is not perfect and needs fixing but not transformation.

292 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:54:53pm

re: #25 Guanxi88

"I've been in your shoes; I know what it is to take a tough vote."

'Present!'

293 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:54:58pm

Old time politician passes away:

Stewart Udall dead at age 90

I seem to have generally positive memories of him.

294 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:55:00pm

re: #290 Varek Raith

Heh, because conservatives have been so good on reducing government.
;)

Sad but true. Sad but true.

295 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:55:08pm

re: #280 wozzablog

Basic shelter that accomodates ones needs - i would postulate - is a human right.

Owning property for the purposes of speculation that drives up a massive bubble is not a right.

simple enough?

Real estate monopolies, price fixing and anti-trust behavior is certainly not a right. One will find that real estate values and rentals are based on a form of market collusion.

Through planning and zoning one can create and environment that provides housing that is affordable for the less fortunate. Even in high rent districts. This is a matter of survival even for the upper class elite that require the housing of service employees. The same is true for production.

296 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:55:19pm

re: #290 Varek Raith

Heh, because conservatives have been so good on reducing government.
;)

Let me clarify:

Dems suck.
GOP sucks.

Does that help?

297 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:55:24pm

Housing is not a "right". Ask the farm workers here. Folks built mcmansions but not rental units due to growth management bs. Now the rental vacancy is about 1% and the local city council has pulled what that city in Conn. did. Rezoned a trailer park, kicked out the renters and sold the property to a development corporation.

298 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:55:34pm

re: #280 wozzablog

Basic shelter that accomodates ones needs - i would postulate - is a human right.

Owning property for the purposes of speculation that drives up a massive bubble is not a right.

simple enough?

Why are you challenging me? You're second point is nothing I even touched on. You mentioned the first time to me in your last comment. I just got here a few minutes ago, and I saw a few questions about housing, and so, I asked a simple, one subject question.

I didn't ask about property investment for this, that or anything. Why did you even go there?

299 suchislife  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:55:36pm

re: #274 windsagio

re: #272 Gus 802

OK, I don't have an answer either. I think a good approach is to think of it in terms of giving people the ability to access housing. That is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which is difficult to attain in a service economy to being with let alone during a recession. And during better times in between this cycle of boom and bust it is also difficult to attain when greed has driven employment and manufacturing overseas.

I wonder, have you ever heard of the capability approach in political theory?

300 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:55:51pm

re: #290 Varek Raith

Yay! That gives us an excuse to expand it MUCH more!

/

301 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:56:02pm

re: #299 suchislife

re: #272 Gus 802

I wonder, have you ever heard of the capability approach in political theory?

No, I haven't.

302 Joanne  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:56:31pm

re: #268 Lateralis

This is a dark times in US politics. A President who can not lead shoving legislation through so he can leave his mark on society.

Funny, it looks like he's leading us to a historic vote on healthcare - and doing a good job of it. Sure looks like it's going to pass. How can you say that's not leadership?

You can dislike or disagree with him but I think it's a stretch to say he can't lead.

303 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:56:37pm

re: #270 Walter L. Newton

I don't know what you are talking about? I ask a simple question. I shelter a human right? That's all. I don't have an answer.

Needs are natural, rights are invented. If the majority in a representative republic regards something as a right, it is regarded as one (a dissenting minority may have other views).

304 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:56:43pm

re: #298 Walter L. Newton

Why are you challenging me? You're second point is nothing I even touched on. You mentioned the first time to me in your last comment. I just got here a few minutes ago, and I saw a few questions about housing, and so, I asked a simple, one subject question.

I didn't ask about property investment for this, that or anything. Why did you even go there?

/they are programed to do so...

305 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:57:16pm

re: #291 Lateralis

It was in his manifesto to do first - ahead of cap and trade, renewables, etc............

The bill has been toned down from what the president wanted - your analysis is entirely flawed.

306 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:57:19pm

re: #282 freetoken

The mask fell.

307 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:57:35pm

re: #298 Walter L. Newton

he's expounding on the point (to my mind), your question could be seen as kind of disingenuous anyways.

As it is, you're reading as just wanting to pick a fight.

308 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:57:45pm

re: #300 TheMatrix31

Yay! That gives us an excuse to expand it MUCH more!

/

Why sarc what you really mean?
;)
Shrinking the size of government is a pipe dream, pure and simple.

309 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:57:48pm

re: #300 TheMatrix31

Yay! That gives us an excuse to expand it MUCH more!

/

I get tired of the "but the GOP did this / that" retort.

They both suck. Ass.

Politics suck. Politicians suck.

/I'm in a sucky mood today I guess.

310 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:58:07pm

re: #302 JustJay

Funny, it looks like he's leading us to a historic vote on healthcare - and doing a good job of it. Sure looks like it's going to pass. How can you say that's not leadership?

You can dislike or disagree with him but I think it's a stretch to say he can't lead.

lead would imply consent...

311 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:58:54pm

re: #308 Varek Raith

That's why I don't want this shit to pass. It's irreversible.

312 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:59:02pm

Housing is not a right yet eminent domain is a right?

313 jvic  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:59:17pm

Here is how this conservative-tilting libertarian stopped working against the bill.

I made a list of Congresspeople to call. After calling a couple, I checked in at The Corner to find Kathryn Lopez chatting about co-hosting a broadcast with Rick Santorum...and Tom DeLay himself called in!

Afaic Santorum is a synonym for stupid; DeLay, for corrupt. I was not pleased.

Then she tried to fire me up with this video.

My palm smacked my forehead. They think we've forgotten how crazy and corrupt and dumb and incompetent they are. They think they have the rubes marching to their tune again.

I made no more calls.

I hope the bill is defeated. If it passes as seems likely, I'll go on from there. I'm picking my battles. Stoicism is a virtue that merits revival.

As for reinstating my subscription to National Review? Fuhgedaboudit.

You betcha.

314 suchislife  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:59:17pm

re: #301 Gus 802

I don't think I can summarize it succinctly right at this minute, but your comment that we should secure people an ability, instead of just focusing on a right made me think of it.

315 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:59:20pm

re: #308 Varek Raith

Shrinking the size of government is a pipe dream, pure and simple.

Uncontrolled government expansion will be the ruin of us all.

316 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:59:22pm

re: #302 JustJay

Not leading. Chicago politics.

317 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:59:31pm

re: #298 Walter L. Newton

I'm not challenging you - sorry if you got that indication.

I thought my first reply was clear on my stance, which is wahy i asked if the second one worked - i read back the first one and it wasn't at all clear on my belief as to the fundemental right.


Sorry Walter.

318 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:59:44pm

re: #309 Racer X

I get tired of the "but the GOP did this / that" retort.

They both suck. Ass.

Politics suck. Politicians suck.

/I'm in a sucky mood today I guess.

That's not what I was doing. Just pointing out the painfully obvious double standard. If that makes it tu quoque, then so be it.

319 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:59:47pm

re: #311 TheMatrix31

That's why I don't want this shit to pass. It's irreversible.

nothing is irreversible, I assure you.

320 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:59:48pm

re: #315 Racer X

so the choice is always 'tax and spend' or 'don't tax and spend'

321 Joanne  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:59:49pm

re: #291 Lateralis

What actions are you referring to?

322 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 2:59:53pm

re: #307 windsagio

he's expounding on the point (to my mind), your question could be seen as kind of disingenuous anyways.

As it is, you're reading as just wanting to pick a fight.

Hey Windy, my question is my question, nothing more, nothing less. In that case, you could claim a "color" to anyones comment and make anyone out to be sincere or not sincere. That's bullshit. I asked a simple question... which, up to this point, you're the only one that came back with a direct answer.

Are you prone to answering disingenuous questions?

323 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:00:01pm

re: #282 freetoken

Mother Jones is a wire service?

324 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:00:02pm

re: #314 suchislife

I don't think I can summarize it succinctly right at this minute, but your comment that we should secure people an ability, instead of just focusing on a right made me think of it.

OK, thanks. Just took a quick look at the Wiki entry. Seems interesting.

325 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:00:27pm

re: #319 brookly red

nothing is irreversible, I assure you.

My rain coat is.

326 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:00:32pm

re: #322 Walter L. Newton

ok, ok, don't bite me >>

327 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:00:39pm

re: #317 wozzablog

I'm not challenging you - sorry if you got that indication.

I thought my first reply was clear on my stance, which is wahy i asked if the second one worked - i read back the first one and it wasn't at all clear on my belief as to the fundemental right.

Sorry Walter.

Ok... understood now.

328 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:01:22pm

re: #326 windsagio

ok, ok, don't bite me >>

In your dreams sailor.

329 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:01:30pm

re: #310 brookly red

There was the small matter of an election where the President said he would like to see a Bill during his first term that encompassed healthcare reform including a Public Option, and Exchange and myriad smaller fixes.

Public opinion polls also showed a majority.

330 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:01:41pm

re: #328 Walter L. Newton

When I think of you, I just can't sleep :(

331 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:02:03pm
332 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:02:33pm

re: #331 TheMatrix31

What a dumbfuck.

Lol, I wish I could say shit like that...
:(

333 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:02:55pm

re: #329 wozzablog

So it doesn't matter HOW that goal is achieved, just that its achieved? Ok.

"Get something done, just so I can have something to show."

Now I understand.

334 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:02:58pm

re: #331 TheMatrix31

What a dumbfuck.

he's not that dumb. He's smart enough to know he's sufficiently immunized that he can say the truth of the thing outright.

335 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:03:19pm

re: #320 windsagio

so the choice is always 'tax and spend' or 'don't tax and spend'

Are those your only choices?

Not mine.

I think our public servants have an obligation to provide services to all of us based on the revenue we are all willing to give (taxes).

No more / no less.

They are obligated to provide those services as efficiently as possible. I have yet to see government deliver on those obligations.

336 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:03:25pm

re: #330 windsagio

When I think of you, I just can't sleep :(

It's happened to a lot of people. Don't beat yourself up over it.

337 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:03:59pm

re: #302 JustJay

Funny, it looks like he's leading us to a historic vote on healthcare - and doing a good job of it. Sure looks like it's going to pass. How can you say that's not leadership?

You can dislike or disagree with him but I think it's a stretch to say he can't lead.

If he could lead he would not need to use procedures that are going to face challenges in the court. He should of been able to bring congress together in a compromise that did not need Chicago politics to push it through. It should not be this hard for a party that has a super majority.

338 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:04:20pm

re: #331 TheMatrix31
He is also one of 9 impeached federal judges since 1900.

339 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:04:28pm

re: #335 Racer X

Let me rephrase that: Right now, those are the choices we have, at least if we're looking at the situation realistically.

What you're saying is great in concept, but its not how the US system works, sadly.

340 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:04:35pm

re: #334 Guanxi88

That's true. Maybe "prick" is more accurate.

341 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:04:55pm

re: #338 pingjockey

He is also one of 9 impeached federal judges since 1900.

Looks like he's done well for himself. And Fitzgerald said there were no second acts in American lives.

342 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:05:19pm

re: #320 windsagio

so the choice is always 'tax and spend' or 'cutt taxes and spend'

FTFY.

343 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:05:43pm

re: #305 wozzablog

It was in his manifesto to do first - ahead of cap and trade, renewables, etc...

The bill has been toned down from what the president wanted - your analysis is entirely flawed.

That bill is a bureaucratic nightmare.

344 Joanne  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:05:47pm

re: #316 TheMatrix31

Riiiigt. What was it? 362 electoral votes? Largest win in modern history? You make it seem like people didn't want this reform. Polls show that when people learn about the bill (meaning, no, there really aren't death panels, etc.), they want reform. That's hardly "Chicago politics."

345 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:05:50pm

re: #342 Varek Raith

Fixt with a bonus typo!!!! :D:D

346 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:06:03pm

re: #340 TheMatrix31

That's true. Maybe "prick" is more accurate.

yeah, it fits. Still, it IS refreshing to come across someone who's decided to just go with it. I prefer honest contempt over patronizing concern any day, which is why my wife and I get along so well.

347 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:06:16pm

re: #345 windsagio

Fixt with a bonus typo!!! :D:D

Dammit, you noticed...
XD

348 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:06:27pm

re: #341 Guanxi88
I should be so lucky! Get busted, go to congress, get rich. What a sweet deal.

349 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:06:35pm

re: #344 JustJay

LOL ok bro.

350 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:07:21pm

re: #323 SixDegrees

I should have said general media. The same story popped up on several sites, and I picked the MJ article just because it was a nicely formatted summary.

351 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:07:29pm

re: #333 TheMatrix31

Uh-huh.

Of the Bill that has - at a guess - been scored by the CBO on a more regular basis (even the drafts headed for the trash) than any other.

Name a Bill that has had more scrutiny or column inches devoted to it in the last ten years?.............

352 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:07:33pm

re: #337 Lateralis

If he could lead he would not need to use procedures that are going to face challenges in the court. He should of been able to bring congress together in a compromise that did not need Chicago politics to push it through. It should not be this hard for a party that has a super majority.

You need to keep up. They are not using deem and pass. It's going for a vote, and it's not Chicago, it's Washington, D.C.

(I'm holding back)

353 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:07:40pm

re: #348 pingjockey

I should be so lucky! Get busted, go to congress, get rich. What a sweet deal.

hey, nice work if you can get it. The summit of my political ambitions (never realized) was when I wanted to get a job at the Mass State House as an aid to one of the Solons up there. I hung around Foley's pub for months, but never made the necessary connections to get anywhere.

354 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:08:05pm

re: #344 JustJay

Riiigt. What was it? 362 electoral votes? Largest win in modern history? You make it seem like people didn't want this reform. Polls show that when people learn about the bill (meaning, no, there really aren't death panels, etc.), they want reform. That's hardly "Chicago politics."

You can call them what you want but the reality of government health care is they will decide who gets treatment for certain diseases and who does not. The more people understood that they are being led down the road of socialized medicine the more they were against it.

355 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:08:13pm

What is the latest on Cap & Trade/Tax? Will that be next after this passes?

356 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:08:16pm

re: #348 pingjockey

I should be so lucky! Get busted, go to congress, get rich. What a sweet deal.

not to mention the sweet health care coverage...

357 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:08:27pm

re: #344 JustJay
Nobody, including the Prez or congress has a clue what is in that behemouth of a bill.

358 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:09:20pm

re: #352 Stanley Sea

You need to keep up. They are not using deem and pass. It's going for a vote, and it's not Chicago, it's Washington, D.C.

(I'm holding back)

Reconciliation. Spare me with the don't hold back comment.

359 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:09:21pm

re: #357 pingjockey

Nobody, including the Prez or congress has a clue what is in that behemouth of a bill.

but they know for sure we need it right fucking now!

360 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:09:34pm

re: #355 Bagua

I think immigration is next on President Obama's wild, magical, achievement tour.

361 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:09:40pm

re: #353 Guanxi88
Heh!

362 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:10:35pm

I always loved Burroughs' take on politics:

When Did I Stop Wanting to be President?

363 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:10:36pm

re: #355 Bagua

What is the latest on Cap & Trade/Tax? Will that be next after this passes?

I think Lindsay Graham is taking the reins on that one, along with immigration reform. We'll see...

364 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:10:40pm

uh-oh, a hate-spiral!

365 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:10:46pm

re: #360 TheMatrix31

I think immigration is next on President Obama's wild, magical, achievement tour.

well that and the complete control of banks & financial institutions... cap & trade can wait.

366 Joanne  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:10:50pm

re: #337 Lateralis

Again, what procedures? If you're talking Deem and Pass, that's not going to be used. And you realize the GOP used that same procedure more than 100 times and it's been through the courts and deemed legal, right? Or were you referring to something I've yet to hear?

367 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:10:56pm

Mankind has until today been in winter. Man’s reality has not yet been flourished. The spring of man’s flourishment will be tantamount to rule of monotheism and justice worldwide by Imam of Age (Hazrat Mahdi, May God Hasten His Reappearance.

The winter of mankind is on the end stage and the weather is full of spring fragrance and breath. The time is the time of reappearance of Hazrat Mahdi and the key to longevity, freshness and growing wisdom of the Iranian nation is their faith in truth and their much hope on rule of the Imam of Age on the universe.

Enemies were and are angry with our people’s freshness, vibrancy and hope but they should know that our nation is today fresher, more kind, more determined and more powerful than the previous year, being resolved to continue their great aspirations.

Government still seeks lofty divine and humanitarian aspirations, materialization of peace, security and welfare, lasting welfare for all on the basis of monotheism, justice, purity and kindness,” said the president, adding, “Iranian nation will powerfully defend its national security and prudently, swiftly and strongly cut the hands of anybody aiming to harm it.

Happy New Years to All Our Friends and Enemies

368 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:11:30pm

If this bill was so great why didn't it get passed when there was 60 democrat senators and that huge majority in the house of reps? Like last fall maybe?

369 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:11:42pm

re: #364 windsagio

uh-oh, a hate-spiral!

Seemed pretty calm in here until a few minutes ago.

370 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:11:48pm

re: #360 TheMatrix31

I'm curious to see how much enforcement will be required for everyone, citizens and undocumented immigrants alike, to pay into health insurance.

371 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:11:49pm

re: #360 TheMatrix31

Bush would have done it if his own caucus wouldn't have torn him a new one.

Obama's plan will probably end up close to what GWB would have done.

Yup. Dangerous radical.

372 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:11:58pm

re: #366 JustJay

The constitutionality of forcing citizens to buy healthcare will be challenged. If the Slaughter rule is used, THAT will be challenged.

373 [deleted]  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:12:21pm
374 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:12:31pm

re: #373 TheMatrix31

immigrants*

375 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:12:45pm

re: #357 pingjockey

Nobody, including the Prez or congress has a clue what is in that behemouth of a bill.

I'm pretty sure they have a clue. It is NOT just about health care, even though that is what the debates all come down to. There is so much more than just health care packed inside this thing.

The bill they are about to pass is a liberal wet dream. Pure and simple.

376 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:12:49pm

re: #366 JustJay

Again, what procedures? If you're talking Deem and Pass, that's not going to be used. And you realize the GOP used that same procedure more than 100 times and it's been through the courts and deemed legal, right? Or were you referring to something I've yet to hear?

They are going to use reconciliation. Regardless of how often it has been used before it should not be used for legislation effecting 1/6 of the economy.

377 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:12:59pm

re: #365 brookly red

I'm not going to bite on............


complete control of the financial system.............
378 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:13:09pm

re: #362 Guanxi88

I always loved Burroughs' take on politics:

When Did I Stop Wanting to be President?


[Video]

"Then across the street, to the Courthouse Cafe, to drink coffee with other lazy, worthless bastards in the same line of business. And we'd wallow in corruption and graft like contented alligators."

379 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:13:18pm

re: #355 Bagua

What is the latest on Cap & Trade/Tax? Will that be next after this passes?

I think Financial reforms will be the next to pass. After that it will probably to some sort of immigration reform.

380 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:13:19pm

re: #368 pingjockey

because congress is corrupt and the insurance companies have a huge amount of sway.

~It's also because the way the Republicans value party first, only 1 or 2 Democrats needed to be bought out to sink the bill.

381 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:13:45pm

re: #369 Gus 802

Seemed pretty calm in here until a few minutes ago.

I told ya 6:00 does it every time...

382 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:14:10pm

re: #376 Lateralis

It's a sixth of the economy because they couldn't ram through reform in the 90's that would have reduced costs.


(yeah, i'm going there..............)

383 [deleted]  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:14:12pm
384 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:14:19pm

re: #373 TheMatrix31

Fuck illegal immegrants.

Why don't you go post that over at Vdare and Malkin's site.

385 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:14:19pm

re: #375 Racer X
That's what I'm thinking. 2400 pages and I'm sure our reps have read the whole thing and the consequences of it./

386 Joanne  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:14:35pm

re: #354 Lateralis

Baloney! And I'd take socialized medicine, which this is anything but, over the death panels that are insurance companies any day. They serve no purpose other than to delay claims, make doctors jump thru hoops, and say No.

387 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:14:42pm

re: #382 wozzablog

You shouldn't "ram" through ANY legislation. That right there is the problem.

388 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:14:55pm

re: #384 Gus 802

That's some fuckin' bullshit.

389 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:15:17pm

re: #388 TheMatrix31

That's some fuckin' bullshit.

Whatever you say Mongo.

390 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:15:31pm

Good night everybody.

I'm off. Can't be doing with this tonight.

391 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:15:55pm

re: #360 TheMatrix31

I think immigration is next on President Obama's wild, magical, achievement tour.

Quite likely. Another 10 million taxpayers or so will help keep annual deficits in the 13-digit range.

392 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:16:21pm

re: #373 TheMatrix31

Fuck illegal immigrants.

Is that you Pocahantus?

393 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:16:24pm

re: #390 wozzablog

Good night everybody.

I'm off. Can't be doing with this tonight.

Sleep well mate.

394 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:16:25pm

re: #389 Gus 802

I already gave my justification for saying such a comment.

395 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:16:35pm

re: #391 SixDegrees

Quite likely. Another 10 million taxpayers or so will help keep annual deficits in the 13-digit range.

And help secure the votes needed to keep the great boons shortly to be bestowed on us permanent.

396 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:16:35pm

re: #387 TheMatrix31

Going to hand back some of those taxcuts you got on that basis?

397 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:16:55pm

re: #387 TheMatrix31

Man, where have you been?

I like how things that are normal in our government, and have been for freakin' decades, are all of a sudden "Appalling, I say Appalling!" (in a foghorn leghorn voice) whenever its the other side doing it.

398 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:16:56pm

re: #391 SixDegrees

Quite likely. Another 10 million taxpayers or so will help keep annual deficits in the 13-digit range.

assuming of course they can find work...

399 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:17:07pm

re: #393 Bagua

Cheers, MOTD on the teevee.

My team won. Whoop!

Night all.

400 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:17:23pm

re: #375 Racer X


The bill they are about to pass is a liberal wet dream. Pure and simple.

Not sure I would put it that way. After all, many Democratic Party Representatives were objecting to the missing truly gov't run health care. What the bill has instead is an insurance company run health care with the gov't mandating coverage.

401 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:17:45pm

re: #379 Killgore Trout

I think Financial reforms will be the next to pass. After that it will probably to some sort of immigration reform.

Interesting, so that would likely put Cap & T past the midterm elections as an issue?

402 Joanne  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:18:06pm

re: #376 Lateralis

They are going to use reconciliation. Regardless of how often it has been used before it should not be used for legislation effecting 1/6 of the economy.

Do you even know what reconcilliation is?

I'm out. This is turning into crazy talk.

403 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:18:45pm

re: #400 freetoken

Not sure I would put it that way. After all, many Democratic Party Representatives were objecting to the missing truly gov't run health care. What the bill has instead is an insurance company run health care with the gov't mandating coverage.

Confucius:

Even as, in filling a ditch, if I stop one basketful before completion, I have stopped, so, too, in piling up earth to make a mountain, the first basketful is progress.

404 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:18:56pm

re: #402 JustJay

Wait, explain it to us commoners before you leave us!

405 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:19:05pm

re: #395 Guanxi88

And help secure the votes needed to keep the great boons shortly to be bestowed on us permanent.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Things are looking very grim, indeed, for the Dems in the upcoming midterms. A major factor, by the way, in getting HCR passed now, by any means necessary and no matter what the bill actually contains.

406 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:19:12pm

re: #368 pingjockey

If this bill was so great why didn't it get passed when there was 60 democrat senators and that huge majority in the house of reps? Like last fall maybe?

Because the GOP was obstructing it. But that's about over now. Fortunately, after tomorrow, the Democrats will be able to proudly stand up and take credit for the total reformation of the substandard and unfair state of health care in this country.

The GOP has made a really big mistake not paying close attention to the will of the majority of Americans, who want this reform, who want this bill, Americans and doctors and the medical community who in poll after poll has shown favor to this health care reform bill.

But, the public will be able to make their dissatisfaction known this coming November when they will have to opportunity to vote out the GOP incumbents who spent so much time and effort in attempting to deny this legislation to this country.

Can anyone disagree with these facts?

407 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:19:23pm

re: #402 JustJay

The storm seems to be largely passing >

408 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:19:30pm

re: #372 TheMatrix31

As goes healthcare reform - so goes mandated flood insurance........

409 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:19:56pm

re: #401 Bagua

Interesting, so that would likely put Cap & T past the midterm elections as an issue?

No, I think Cap and trade is sort of a dead issue. I don't think they'll get to it but I haven't really been paying much attention.

410 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:20:09pm

Apologies for 373.

411 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:20:18pm

re: #379 Killgore Trout

Concur. Immigration will be the hot topic for the election. Until then, financial reform will be attempted. I suspect any carbon legislation to be swamped, just because the other topics are loaded with plenty of constituencies.

412 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:20:20pm

re: #402 JustJay

Do you even know what reconcilliation is?

I'm out. This is turning into crazy talk.

Nonsense. This is crazy talk:

No. If he wanted to break the ring no, please I get a month. They did it. Come on. (A name, not clear) cut me off and says you are not to be the beneficiary of this will. Is that right? I will be checked and double-checked and please pull for me. Will you pull? How many good ones and how many bad ones? Please I had nothing with him he was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fight. No business; no hangout; no friends; nothing; just what you pick up and what you need. I don't know who shot me. Don't put anyone near this check~ you might have -please do it for me. Let me get up. heh? In the olden days they waited and they waited. Please give me a shot. It is from the factory. Sure, that is a bad. Well, oh good ahead that happens for trying. I don't want harmony. I want harmony. Oh, mamma, mamma! Who give it to him? Who give it to him? Let me in the district -fire-factory that he was nowhere near. It smoldered No, no. There are only ten of us and there ten million fighting somewhere of you, so get your onions up and we will throw up the truce flag. Oh, please let me up. Please shift me. Police are here. Communistic...strike...baloney...honestly this is a habit I get; sometimes I give it and sometimes I don't. Oh, I am all in. That settles it. Are you sure? Please let me get in and eat. Let him harass himself to you and then bother you. Please don't ask me to go there. I don't want to. I still don't want him in the path. It is no use to stage a riot. The sidewalk was in trouble and the bears were in trouble and I broke it up. Please put me in that room. Please keep him in control. My gilt edged stuff and those dirty rats have tuned in. Please mother, don't tear, don't rip; that is something that shouldn't be spoken about. Please get me up, my friends. Please, look out. The shooting is a bit wild, and that kind of shooting saved a man's life. No payrolls. No wells. No coupons. That would be entirely out. Pardon me, I forgot I am plaintiff and not defendant. Look out. Look out for him. Please. He owed me money; he owes everyone money. Why can't he just pullout and give me control? Please, mother, you pick me up now. Please, you know me. No. Don't you scare me. My friends and I think I do a better job. Police are looking for you allover. Be instrumental in letting us know. They are English-men and they are a type I don't know who is best, they or us. Oh, sir, get the doll a roofing. You can play jacks and girls do that with a soft ball and do tricks with it. I take all events into consideration. No. No. And it is no. It is confused and its says no. A boy has never wept nor dashed a thousand kim. Did you hear me?

Kindly take my shoes off. (He was told that they were off.) No. There is a handcuff on them. The Baron says these things. I know what I am doing here with my collection of papers. It isn't worth a nickel to two guys like you or me but to a collector it is worth a fortune. It is priceless. I am going to turn it over to... Turn you back to me, please Henry. I am so sick now. The police are getting many complaints. Look out. I want that G-note. Look out for Jimmy Valentine for he is an old pal of mine. Come on, come on, Jim. Ok, ok, I am all through. Can't do another thing. Look out mamma, look out for her. You can't beat him. Police, mamma, Helen, mother, please take me out. I will settle the indictment. Come on, open the soap duckets. The chimney sweeps. Talk to the sword. Shut up, you got a big mouth! Please help me up, Henry. Max, come over here. French-Canadian bean soup. I want to pay. Let them leave me alone.

413 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:20:34pm

re: #382 wozzablog

It's a sixth of the economy because they couldn't ram through reform in the 90's that would have reduced costs.

(yeah, i'm going there...)

This bill will not reduce cost. Most cost are incurred in the last stages of life. This is strictly about socializing medicine, nothing more.

414 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:21:01pm

re: #412 Guanxi88

That is certainly crazy talk.

415 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:21:18pm

re: #398 brookly red

assuming of course they can find work...

Unfortunately, we're likely to see a repeat of Reagan's mistake of allowing amnesty to go forward without any robust tightening of border and immigration controls, and we'll get to face this exactly same problem, only an order of magnitude worse, in another decade or two.

416 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:21:25pm

re: #406 Walter L. Newton

Because the GOP was obstructing it. But that's about over now. Fortunately, after tomorrow, the Democrats will be able to proudly stand up and take credit for the total reformation of the substandard and unfair state of health care in this country.

The GOP has made a really big mistake not paying close attention to the will of the majority of Americans, who want this reform, who want this bill, Americans and doctors and the medical community who in poll after poll has shown favor to this health care reform bill.

But, the public will be able to make their dissatisfaction known this coming November when they will have to opportunity to vote out the GOP incumbents who spent so much time and effort in attempting to deny this legislation to this country.

Can anyone disagree with these facts?

see you in September November...

417 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:21:31pm

re: #406 Walter L. Newton

(all you needed was to start the post with "O, Glaucon...." very well done, sir.)

418 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:21:49pm

re: #410 TheMatrix31

Apologies for 373.

No worries, it happens.
:)

419 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:22:37pm

re: #414 windsagio

That is certainly crazy talk.

Last words of Arthur Flegenheimer, aka Dutch Schultz.

My favorite line "A boy was never wept, nor dashed a thousand kim."

420 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:23:20pm

Does this really really force people to buy insurance or be fined?

That is not my idea of a free country.

I do not like this at all.

421 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:23:20pm

re: #415 SixDegrees

I actually think they should totally open the borders to anyone that can show any kind of work.

We can't close the US-Mexico border, and in general the people that come in to work (no not all of them) are extremely hard workers, and benefits to their communities.

The actual problem is that those good conservative industrial farmers would likely prefer they remain an illegal underclass so they don't have to pay them as much.

422 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:24:02pm

re: #417 Guanxi88

(all you needed was to start the post with "O, Glaucon..." very well done, sir.)

Wait... I was serious?

423 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:24:14pm

Nativism is some reprehensible shit.

424 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:24:21pm

re: #420 Ojoe

Yes it does.

425 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:24:42pm

re: #422 Walter L. Newton

Part of your charm is that with you we can never tell >>

Predictability is for boring people!

426 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:24:54pm

re: #409 Killgore Trout

No, I think Cap and trade is sort of a dead issue. I don't think they'll get to it but I haven't really been paying much attention.

My prediction as well, you probably won't see cap and trade until 2011, and then it will likely be more carbon tax and energy bill package. It will likely wait until post election and post census redistricting so that parties can see how both congress and the electoral college are re-plumbed. There's a huge amt of patronage in who gets to slack off on carbon and who doesn't if they do it in the form of cap and trade, so it will be interesting to see what form emerges.

427 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:24:59pm

re: #424 TheMatrix31

Screw that I refuse on principle.

428 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:25:11pm

re: #406 Walter L. Newton
How can you obstruct when the majority has a super majority ro bring it(bill) to the floor and the votes to override any filibuster? I guess I don't know enough arcane House/Senate rules. As for the HRC, my parents both in their mid 70s and a number of their friends feel that the 1/2 billion cut to medicare will affect retirees health care.
I also politely disagree with you, my thespian friend. I do not feel a majority of our fellow citizens want this HCR as it is. Hell, I want HCR too, but I also want to reign in scum suckers like the silky pony, IOW tort reform, which I don't think is anywhere in this bill.

429 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:25:12pm

re: #423 windsagio

Yes it is. If you're confusing my comment for "nativism", you're completely wrong. I don't like people coming illegally when there are means to come in legally, like my parents and 90% of my freakin' family did.

430 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:25:16pm

re: #422 Walter L. Newton

Wait... I was serious?

Heh, with you, one seems to never be entirely sure...
;)

431 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:25:20pm

re: #425 windsagio

Part of your charm is that with you we can never tell >>

Predictability is for boring people!

I couldn't do it with my good looks alone!

432 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:25:42pm

re: #406 Walter L. Newton

If a majority of Americans wanted this change they would have an easier time getting it passed. The problem is that Americans do want changes to the system not a government take over of the system.

433 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:25:44pm

My solution to illegal immigrants:

Welcome to America!

You are all invited to apply to become American citizens. There a few conditions to your application being approved.

1. You cut in front of others in line. There is a financial penalty. You will be allowed to pay this penalty over time if you wish (I'm thinking about $5,000 each).

2. You will be required to show proof of employment, for tax purposes you see. No job - please apply again at a later date - now go get back in line.

3. You will be required to take the oath to pledge allegiance to America. I'm sure your home country was nice, but you are American now.

4. There will be a probation period. Commit a crime and you go back to where you came from.

Welcome to America!

434 KingKenrod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:25:55pm

re: #420 Ojoe

Does this really really force people to buy insurance or be fined?

That is not my idea of a free country.

I do not like this at all.

Yes it does - everyone has to obtain minimum coverage one way or another.

435 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:26:19pm

I am also going to protest the fact I can't drive without auto insurance now!!!111!!!!1111!!!!

436 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:26:19pm

re: #432 Lateralis

If a majority of Americans wanted this change they would have an easier time getting it passed. The problem is that Americans do want changes to the system not a government take over of the system.

DEATH PANELS!

437 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:26:19pm

re: #431 Walter L. Newton

I couldn't do it with my good looks alone!

Nonsense - anyone with a swank housecoat and the force of personality to be photographed smoking a pipe is an unstoppable force.

438 blueraven  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:26:19pm

re: #291 Lateralis

Congress would not be considering the actions they are if it was not about his Presidency going in the toilet the first year and calling it Health Care reform. This is transformation of a system that is not perfect and needs fixing but not transformation.

Right, because he didn't campaign on this issue for two years. He never said HCR was one of his top priorities. Yep, thats how he got elected, by never mentioning what he would do about HC. Surprise!!

439 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:26:22pm

re: #429 TheMatrix31

notice I didn't address it to anyone, that was intentional.

In general there's unreasonable anti-mexican immigrant attitude, and its stupid and harmful.

440 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:26:49pm

If you want to work towards affecting climate, the best route at present is through local and state legislation. I recommend finding the anti-nukers in your respective state, and also working towards moratoriums on new coal and oil energy generation.

441 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:26:54pm

re: #437 Guanxi88

Nonsense - anyone with a swank housecoat and the force of personality to be photographed smoking a pipe is an unstoppable force.

True dat!

442 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:27:19pm

re: #435 bratwurst

I am also going to protest the fact I can't drive without auto insurance now!!!111!!!1111!!!

Driving a car and simply being alive are very different conditions.

443 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:27:25pm

re: #439 windsagio

by the way, I"m also for full amnesty for noncriminal illegals. Show you have a legal job, and you should be off the hook.

444 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:27:45pm

re: #430 Varek Raith

Heh, with you, one seems to never be entirely sure...
;)

Any one on the left that wants to use that, feel free.

445 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:28:03pm

re: #439 windsagio

There are other people who immigrate besides Mexicans.

446 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:28:05pm

re: #420 Ojoe

Well, I don't like it either. That why I responded to RacerX. The "compromise" in this bill - that is, instead of having a true gov't directed (funded) health care system what we've ended up with is a law requiring people to participate in a type of business (as offered by and managed by insurance companies.)

IMO we would be better off with gov't owned/funded health centers, possibly contracted out to be run by private operators in areas where that is practical.

Now, we've instituted an entire layer of middle-men - The Insurance Company.

447 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:28:18pm

re: #421 windsagio

I actually think they should totally open the borders to anyone that can show any kind of work.

We can't close the US-Mexico border, and in general the people that come in to work (no not all of them) are extremely hard workers, and benefits to their communities.

The actual problem is that those good conservative industrial farmers would likely prefer they remain an illegal underclass so they don't have to pay them as much.

Interesting three paragraphs.

1. Disagree!

2. Pretty much agree.

3. Agree!

448 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:28:22pm

re: #440 Thanos

/pimf "finding" == "Fighting"

449 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:28:29pm

re: #442 Bagua

Driving a car and simply being alive are very different conditions.

Agreed, but for the VAST majority of Americans, you cannot have a job without driving a car. I wish this were not the case, but it is.

450 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:28:46pm

re: #438 blueraven

Right, because he didn't campaign on this issue for two years. He never said HCR was one of his top priorities. Yep, thats how he got elected, by never mentioning what he would do about HC. Surprise!!

It am not surprised. If you really think he was elected on substance you are kidding yourself.

451 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:29:02pm

re: #421 windsagio

I actually think they should totally open the borders to anyone that can show any kind of work.

We can't close the US-Mexico border, and in general the people that come in to work (no not all of them) are extremely hard workers, and benefits to their communities.

If it's true that we need immigrant labor to do jobs citizens can't or won't do, I really don't have a problem with allowing as many in as needed. I'm not, however, in favor of eliminating border protocols. What's needed if this is the case is a revamped Green Card program, or perhaps something altogether new, to ensure that those here are here legitimately - and are paying legitimate taxes. Nor am I in favor of granting citizenship based on squatter's rights; although that will almost certainly be necessary to get past the current logjam, it needs to be addressed up front and curtailed.

452 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:29:04pm

re: #444 Walter L. Newton

Its funny, because I was trying to frame a response to that comment, and I coudln't come up with anything.

I think the real thing is that we'll see in 2012 how popular it actually is, once the hype has cooled down and we've had the system for a little while.

453 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:29:09pm

re: #443 windsagio

by the way, I"m also for full amnesty for noncriminal illegals. Show you have a legal job, and you should be off the hook.

I'm all for letting them move in with me... especially the woman folk.

454 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:29:20pm

re: #445 TheMatrix31

who would you keep out, under the terms I outlined?

455 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:29:39pm

re: #450 Lateralis

It am not surprised. If you really think he was elected on substance you are kidding yourself.

Now, in fairness, no one would be elected on substance. Sizzle, not steak, after all, is what one sells.

456 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:29:44pm

re: #453 Walter L. Newton

Things I learn every day!

now I have to be jealous of all the hispanic women in the world :(

457 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:29:59pm

re: #441 Varek Raith

True dat!

You wanna buy it... look good on you... cheap... 1 American dolla..

458 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:30:17pm

re: #433 Racer X

2. You will be required to show proof of employment, for tax purposes you see. No job - please apply again at a later date - now go get back in line.

That means somebody has to hire illegals. Vicious circle.

459 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:31:08pm

re: #458 wrenchwench

People do! They just pay them 1/10th minimum wage!

460 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:31:10pm

re: #454 windsagio

I would keep out anyone who comes here illegally.

I thought I said that.

461 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:31:14pm

re: #456 windsagio

Things I learn every day!

now I have to be jealous of all the hispanic women in the world :(

My last wife of 15 years was Pueblo-Castilian.

462 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:31:21pm

There are more than 4 different programs for employers to get noncitizens into this country to work legally.

463 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:31:27pm

re: #455 Guanxi88

Now, in fairness, no one would be elected on substance. Sizzle, not steak, after all, is what one sells.

The unfortunate reality of politics today.

464 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:31:47pm

re: #457 Walter L. Newton

You wanna buy it... look good on you... cheap... 1 American dolla..

Hey! You be hanging around my shop! You go 'way! you steal business! You go, I call cops, fix you good!

465 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:31:59pm

re: #460 TheMatrix31

you're dodging. You wouldn't say that if you didn't have something specific in mind.

466 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:32:00pm

re: #457 Walter L. Newton

You wanna buy it... look good on you... cheap... 1 American dolla..

:D

467 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:32:00pm

re: #458 wrenchwench

That means somebody has to hire illegals. Vicious circle.

Somebody already has hired them. They are here now working. Most illegals are hard working decent people. I have no problem with them staying.

468 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:32:09pm

re: #443 windsagio

by the way, I"m also for full amnesty for noncriminal illegals. Show you have a legal job, and you should be off the hook.

how can someone be here non-legally AND have a legal job.... that is such a crock.

469 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:32:20pm

re: #465 windsagio

altho I guess you could be disputing just to dispute, that's also possible.

470 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:32:45pm

re: #468 brookly red

the second legal shouldn't be in there, sorry for the typo :p

471 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:32:45pm

re: #443 windsagio

by the way, I"m also for full amnesty for noncriminal illegals. Show you have a legal job, and you should be off the hook.

You can't have a legal job if you are here without a work visa.

472 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:33:22pm

re: #471 Walter L. Newton

See 470. That's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it !

473 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:33:28pm

re: #449 bratwurst

Agreed, but for the VAST majority of Americans, you cannot have a job without driving a car. I wish this were not the case, but it is.

Having a job and being alive are also very different conditions. This is a fee/tax on being alive.

474 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:33:45pm

re: #468 brookly red

how can someone be here non-legally AND have a legal job... that is such a crock.

Who do you think is in the back room working at just about every restaurant in the west? I'm serious.

475 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:33:47pm

re: #465 windsagio

What?

476 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:34:06pm

re: #473 Bagua

Having a job and being alive are also very different conditions. This is a fee/tax on being alive.

so much for death & taxes...

477 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:34:43pm

Fake SS#'s are really easy to obtain.

478 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:34:47pm

re: #464 Guanxi88

Hey! You be hanging around my shop! You go 'way! you steal business! You go, I call cops, fix you good!

(my wife says, not that she believes in reincarnation, but if she did, that I'd be a reincarnated Shanghai vegetable merchant, late 19th century. One of those guys in the black jackets, pigtails down my back, who gets crushed when his cart rolls over on him when he's trying to catch the guy who snagged a bok choy leaf. "you would die in some stupid way like that.")

479 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:34:50pm

A fee/tax on being alive. That's a new anti reform talking point for me!

480 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:35:12pm

re: #449 bratwurst

I responded to your #118 on the previous thread.

481 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:35:12pm

re: #476 brookly red

so much for death & taxes...

Now it is death, taxes and healthcare.

482 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:35:24pm

re: #475 TheMatrix31

What kind of illegal immigrants are you concerned about, since you specifically excluded mexicans? Costa Ricans? Those damn Illegal New Zealanders?

Under the terms I put (show you can get a job, be welcome in, in essence) who wouldn't you allow?

483 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:35:37pm

re: #473 Bagua

Having a job and being alive are also very different conditions. This is a fee/tax on being alive.

If you can 'splain me a way to be alive without income, I am SO THERE. ;)

484 MandyManners  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:35:44pm

re: #476 brookly red

so much for death & taxes...

Wait for the raise in taxing estates.

485 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:35:56pm

re: #478 Guanxi88

(my wife says, not that she believes in reincarnation, but if she did, that I'd be a reincarnated Shanghai vegetable merchant, late 19th century. One of those guys in the black jackets, pigtails down my back, who gets crushed when his cart rolls over on him when he's trying to catch the guy who snagged a bok choy leaf. "you would die in some stupid way like that.")

Heh!


Probably right, too!
:D

486 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:36:01pm

re: #477 Racer X

Fake SS#'s are really easy to obtain.

except they are not fake... they already belong to some one else.

487 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:36:09pm

re: #482 windsagio

What kind of illegal immigrants are you concerned about, since you specifically excluded mexicans? Costa Ricans? Those damn Illegal New Zealanders?

Under the terms I put (show you can get a job, be welcome in, in essence) who wouldn't you allow?

Irish. We got enough of them, and just look at what happened the LAST time we let them in. Turned this country from an empire wilderness into an industrial powerhouse.

488 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:36:46pm

re: #474 Racer X

They(INS/ICE)mjust busted a local apple orchard, packing shed, big damn fruit operation for having over 500 illegal workers. Problem is, the illegals counterfeit paperwork was too damn good for anybody but a document expert to pick up on.

489 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:36:56pm

re: #484 MandyManners

Because the heirs totally earned that value!

(And believe me, me and my sister are gonna get freakin' raped on estate taxes. I'm still for them.)

490 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:37:03pm

re: #479 Stanley Sea

A fee/tax on being alive. That's a new anti reform talking point for me!

How else would one term mandatory health insurance?

Pro or anti, this is the reality.

491 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:37:12pm

re: #487 Guanxi88

Irish. We got enough of them, and just look at what happened the LAST time we let them in. Turned this country from an empire wilderness into an industrial powerhouse.

The Irish caused global warming?

492 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:37:14pm

re: #484 MandyManners

Wait for the raise in taxing estates.

fuck it, wait for the raise in taxing everything... I for one say no.

493 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:37:27pm

re: #487 Guanxi88

The problem is I'd bet $50 I know what he actually means but won't say :p

494 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:37:50pm

re: #492 brookly red

well we always hear that 'real conservatives' are for balancing the budget :D:D

495 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:38:05pm

re: #474 Racer X

Who do you think is in the back room working at just about every restaurant in the west? I'm serious.

In all my life.. I have never seen a white man work in the Grape Fields in Napa.. Never once..I think Napa Valley has a special relationship with our Southern friends and they are great farmers and growers...

496 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:38:07pm

re: #488 pingjockey

They(INS/ICE)mjust busted a local apple orchard, packing shed, big damn fruit operation for having over 500 illegal workers. Problem is, the illegals counterfeit paperwork was too damn good for anybody but a document expert to pick up on.

Yep.

Those 25 million illegal immigrants who are here now are blending right in. They are working somewhere. Good for them.

497 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:38:35pm

re: #491 wrenchwench

The Irish caused global warming?

I fookin' knew it!

498 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:38:40pm

re: #491 wrenchwench

The Irish caused global warming?

Yep, you can be sure of it. Who dug the coal here in the States, eh? Who built the mills and then worked them? Who laid the railroad tracks? I tell ya, they've got a lot to answer for, and i don't just mean Riverdance.

499 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:38:44pm

re: #482 windsagio

What kind of illegal immigrants are you concerned about, since you specifically excluded mexicans? Costa Ricans? Those damn Illegal New Zealanders?

Under the terms I put (show you can get a job, be welcome in, in essence) who wouldn't you allow?

I'm worried about the ILLEGALITY of it. Not the race/nationality of it.

I don't know why it always has to be broken down into such terms.

If you're ILLEGAL, you're ILLEGAL. I don't give a fuck WHERE you're from.

500 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:39:02pm

re: #495 HoosierHoops

any farm of real size works the same way, at least with fruits and vegetables. (they might not need them with grain, don't know enough about wheat farming :P)

501 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:39:16pm

re: #490 Bagua

How else would one term mandatory health insurance?

Pro or anti, this is the reality.

I know we are on different pages, but basically, how I see mandatory health insurance, is that people who don't have health insurance will. Those who already have it, well, have it.

It's been explained much more thoroughly in other places.

502 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:39:37pm

re: #499 TheMatrix31

I'm worried about the ILLEGALITY of it. Not the race/nationality of it.

I don't know why it always has to be broken down into such terms.

If you're ILLEGAL, you're ILLEGAL. I don't give a fuck WHERE you're from.

Completely agree.

503 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:39:43pm

re: #490 Bagua

How else would one term mandatory health insurance?

Pro or anti, this is the reality.

any don't forget the insurance must be approved... now that would be a sweet committee to sit on. spit!re: #494 windsagio

well we always hear that 'real conservatives' are for balancing the budget :D:D

yup... spend less. period.

504 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:39:51pm

re: #499 TheMatrix31

because you specifically mentioned that there were other races than Mexicans.

505 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:40:01pm

re: #480 wrenchwench

I responded to your #118 on the previous thread.

I saw but am too jealous to respond!

506 pingjockey  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:40:39pm

Y'all have a fine afternoon, evening. Going to get the Bar B Q going!

507 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:40:46pm

re: #503 brookly red

Reality bites tho', and that's not gonna happen under any party :p

508 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:40:49pm

re: #504 windsagio

Only in response to your comment about being "strong anti-Mexican" sentiments regarding immigration.

Other nationalities besides Mexicans immigrate to the US.

509 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:41:04pm

re: #505 bratwurst

I saw but am too jealous to respond!

That is a good response.

510 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:41:29pm

re: #508 TheMatrix31

That is literally true.

511 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:41:29pm

re: #507 windsagio

Reality bites tho', and that's not gonna happen under any party :p

no?... have you seen NJ lately?

512 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:41:29pm

What I will always opposere: #487 Guanxi88

Irish. We got enough of them, and just look at what happened the LAST time we let them in. Turned this country from an empire wilderness into an industrial powerhouse.

Damn Irish. Haha kidding being part Irish myself. I think we should make it easier to immigrate legally if anything we should be honored that people want to come here. One thing I have a problem with and I am not accusing anyone here of doing it is demonizing certain groups. The Hispanics especially get shat on and assumed to be illegal immigrants even though there are many Hispanic families especially in the Southwest that have been in this country longer than mine has.

513 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:41:54pm

On a bright note, Quiznos now has five dollar foot longs.

Mmmm. Toasty.

514 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:42:24pm

Day of Wrath

Thousands of demonstrators took to the streets across Russia on Saturday demanding the resignation of local and national leaders, including Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, over lingering economic woes.

A coalition of opposition groups, hoping to channel rising anxiety over unemployment and financial policy into anti-government activism, had called for nationwide protests under the slogan "Day of Wrath."

515 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:42:27pm

BBT. Stay frosty!

516 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:42:31pm

re: #513 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

On a bright note, Quiznos now has five dollar foot longs.

Mmmm. Toasty.

Sub sandwiches, for those between-pie snacks.

517 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:42:42pm

re: #509 wrenchwench

That is a good response.

Maybe it is the beer talking, but if you happen to still be single I propose we become LGF's second power couple!

518 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:42:45pm

re: #511 brookly red

NJ doesn't have to do things like keep defense spending up :P

On the national level, neither party has any actual interest in cutting the budget, because they're not willing to cut any popular, expensive programs.

They talk a good game, but that's the reality.

519 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:43:00pm

re: #483 bratwurst

If you can 'splain me a way to be alive without income, I am SO THERE. ;)

Many people live without producing income. A percentage of the population is permanently unemployed. Other segments are unemployable.

Many people go through periods when they have no income, sometimes by choice. Some people live off the land, their farm, their friends, their families.

520 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:43:14pm

re: #513 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

On a bright note, Quiznos now has five dollar foot longs.

Mmmm. Toasty.

how is that a bright note... should be 2.l50 tops ;)

521 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:43:28pm

and I'm wasting a beautiful day in my underground apartment.

So I'm gonna go out for a while, have some fun :D

522 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:43:29pm

re: #517 bratwurst

Maybe it is the beer talking, but if you happen to still be single I propose we become LGF's second power couple!

We'll leave you two alone to talk things over.

523 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:43:36pm

re: #519 Bagua

*planting seeds*

524 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:43:59pm

re: #517 bratwurst

Maybe it is the beer talking, but if you happen to still be single I propose we become LGF's second power couple!

You want me to marry your beer?

525 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:44:51pm

re: #524 wrenchwench

You want me to marry your beer?

You have no idea how long he's waited to hear those words!

526 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:45:03pm

re: #514 Racer X

Day of Wrath

Thousands of demonstrators took to the streets across Russia on Saturday demanding the resignation of local and national leaders, including Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, over lingering economic woes.

A coalition of opposition groups, hoping to channel rising anxiety over unemployment and financial policy into anti-government activism, had called for nationwide protests under the slogan "Day of Wrath."

awww whatever, same thing happened in Washington today but it's not newsworthy.

527 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:45:40pm

re: #520 brookly red

how is that a bright note... should be 2.l50 tops ;)

Are you nuts?

528 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:45:40pm

re: #524 wrenchwench

You want me to marry your beer?

I do! I so freakin do!

529 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:46:00pm

re: #519 Bagua

Some people live off the land, their farm, their friends, their families.

While I am waiting for my crops to grow, will you talk to my old man for me?

530 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:46:22pm

re: #518 windsagio

NJ doesn't have to do things like keep defense spending up :P

On the national level, neither party has any actual interest in cutting the budget, because they're not willing to cut any popular, expensive programs.

They talk a good game, but that's the reality.

we shall see...

531 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:46:56pm

Afternoon everyone. After two weeks of very nice weather, it is snowing, cold and altogether shitty here in Chicago today.

A lot of people are complaining, but I had to remind them that it is March in Chicago. Plus, we have been pretty lucky so far. Just hunker down on the couch and watch some basketball!

532 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:47:15pm

So, how is this "HCR" that uses 10 years of taxing for 6 years of benefits going to work?
Are we all going to have to take 4 years off every 10 years from health care?
With "40" more million people getting healthcare, what is in the bill to increase the number of doctors to handle the increased load?
/need I??

533 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:47:29pm

Tea Party protesters mob Reps Lewis, Carson, Cummings

I didn't hear any racial slurs but it gives you an idea of the gauntlet they went through.

534 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:47:56pm

re: #524 wrenchwench

You want me to marry your beer?

I put together my new bike today..What a pain in the ass...
I love my new black Fuji 21 speed Mountain bike...
/I have a couple extra bolts left over..That's ok right?
*wink*

535 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:48:07pm

re: #531 soap_man

Afternoon everyone. After two weeks of very nice weather, it is snowing, cold and altogether shitty here in Chicago today.

A lot of people are complaining, but I had to remind them that it is March in Chicago. Plus, we have been pretty lucky so far. Just hunker down on the couch and watch some basketball!

No kidding! I recently relocated ot the area and having been bitching about the weather since I arrived shortly before the beginning of the year...but the fact is that we have fared FAR better than a lot of the country.

536 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:48:45pm

re: #526 brookly red

awww whatever, same thing happened in Washington today but it's not newsworthy.

Oh, it's in the news, and not in a good way.


Tea Partiers yell slurs at Congressmen

537 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:48:57pm

re: #532 Taqyia2Me

So, how is this "HCR" that uses 10 years of taxing for 6 years of benefits going to work?


You could easily google and find the information on how the bill will work but I suspect you already know that the information is widely available.

538 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:49:24pm

re: #524 wrenchwench

You want me to marry your beer?

"Will you take this beer to be your long necked spouse? In carbonation and in flatness?"

539 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:49:34pm

re: #532 Taqyia2Me

So, how is this "HCR" that uses 10 years of taxing for 6 years of benefits going to work?
Are we all going to have to take 4 years off every 10 years from health care?
With "40" more million people getting healthcare, what is in the bill to increase the number of doctors to handle the increased load?
/need I??

that would be the immigration bill...

Q: are you a doctor?
A: Si, doctor, Si...

OK sign here...

540 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:49:40pm

re: #531 soap_man

Afternoon everyone. After two weeks of very nice weather, it is snowing, cold and altogether shitty here in Chicago today.

A lot of people are complaining, but I had to remind them that it is March in Chicago. Plus, we have been pretty lucky so far. Just hunker down on the couch and watch some basketball!

It's coming down here..Stupid weather

541 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:49:45pm

re: #532 Taqyia2Me

So, how is this "HCR" that uses 10 years of taxing for 6 years of benefits going to work?
Are we all going to have to take 4 years off every 10 years from health care?
With "40" more million people getting healthcare, what is in the bill to increase the number of doctors to handle the increased load?
/need I??

Oops, sorry. I missed the sarc tag.
Apologies.

542 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:49:46pm

re: #495 HoosierHoops

In all my life.. I have never seen a white man work in the Grape Fields in Napa.. Never once..I think Napa Valley has a special relationship with our Southern friends and they are great farmers and growers...

Sure they do... like plantation owners thought they had with their slaves. What about the "pay by the season" employers ("paga por la estación") and then they call "la migra" at the end of the year. Those workers are treated like second class citizens.

543 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:49:48pm

re: #534 HoosierHoops

Hey Hoops. Your bracket holding up?

544 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:51:22pm

re: #543 soap_man

Hey Hoops. Your bracket holding up?

Eh, if he used those sheet-rock anchors, it should stay just where he wants it without tearing up the drywall.

545 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:51:35pm

re: #533 Killgore Trout

Hmmm, I think I might here the "n" word at 0:11.

546 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:51:35pm

Well, things can't be too apocalyptic if the Rapture Index is only at 171.

547 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:51:38pm

re: #531 soap_man

Afternoon everyone. After two weeks of very nice weather, it is snowing, cold and altogether shitty here in Chicago today.

A lot of people are complaining, but I had to remind them that it is March in Chicago. Plus, we have been pretty lucky so far. Just hunker down on the couch and watch some basketball!

This is what it looked like this morning when I woke up (yes, the Windstar slide down the side of the driveway, I have to call AAA before the end of the weekend)

Image: windstar.JPG

548 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:51:40pm

re: #535 bratwurst

No kidding! I recently relocated ot the area and having been bitching about the weather since I arrived shortly before the beginning of the year...but the fact is that we have fared FAR better than a lot of the country.

This has been the nicest March I can remember.

549 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:51:49pm

re: #534 HoosierHoops

I put together my new bike today..What a pain in the ass...
I love my new black Fuji 21 speed Mountain bike...
/I have a couple extra bolts left over..That's ok right?
*wink*

Now take it to your friendly local bike shop and have them check it!

550 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:51:50pm

Gollum ausador: We wants it, we needs it. Must have the old system. They are stealing it from us. Sneaky little democratses. Wicked, tricksy, false!

Smeagel ausador: No. Not master Obama!

Gollum ausador: Yes, democratses, false! They will cheat you, TAX you, LIE.

Smeagol ausador: Master Obama is our friend!

Gollum ausador: You don't have any friends; nobody likes you except Glenn beck!

Smeagol ausador: I'm not listening... I'm not listening...

/

551 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:52:04pm

re: #268 Lateralis

This is a dark times in US politics. A President who can not lead shoving legislation through so he can leave his mark on society.

wocka wocka wocka

552 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:52:08pm

re: #534 HoosierHoops

I put together my new bike today..What a pain in the ass...
I love my new black Fuji 21 speed Mountain bike...
/I have a couple extra bolts left over..That's ok right?
*wink*

Those are "pocket bolts". Completely natural.

553 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:52:28pm

re: #514 Racer X


Oh no, a tea Vodka Party!

554 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:52:31pm

re: #538 bratwurst

"Will you take this beer to be your long necked spouse? In carbonation and in flatness?"

urrrp! I do!

555 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:52:42pm

re: #548 soap_man

This has been the nicest March I can remember.

I was GIDDY last week.

556 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:53:05pm

re: #547 Walter L. Newton

This is what it looked like this morning when I woke up (yes, the Windstar slide down the side of the driveway, I have to call AAA before the end of the weekend)

[Link: newton.acrossthebow.com...]

Wow. All of our snow has melted by now (not including the inch or so that fell today.)

557 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:53:09pm

re: #555 bratwurst

I was GIDDY last week.

I felt much the same way, then I got the city out to fix the gas leak.

558 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:54:16pm

re: #538 bratwurst

"Will you take this beer to be your long necked spouse? In carbonation and in flatness?"

You'd make a hoppy couple!

559 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:54:29pm

re: #546 freetoken

Well, things can't be too apocalyptic if the Rapture Index is only at 171.

Where the hell did you find that!?!

560 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:55:48pm

re: #546 freetoken

I swear... people who prophesy the end of the world from the Bible. They may have been reading it, but they sure don't understand it.

561 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:55:57pm

re: #543 soap_man

Hey Hoops. Your bracket holding up?

It's not good....At least Kansas is getting their butts kicked..So far

562 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:56:08pm

re: #559 Stanley Sea

Where the hell did you find that!?!

The Rapture? 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

563 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:56:24pm

re: #558 Racer X

You'd make a hoppy couple!

At the wedding there will be an open bar-ley.

564 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:56:56pm

'Stupak dozen' is now a half-dozen holdouts

That's good news. In re: ditching deem and pass--

Van Hollen said Democrats still maintain that deeming the Senate bill passed would have been appropriate and perfectly legal. But, he said, "there was no reason to allow the misinformation campaign to continue. Despite the fact that Republicans used it, we wanted to make the process absolutely clear."

Obv they feel confident they have the votes, but I wonder how much of that new determination is due to a backlash over the GOP hoax memo from yesterday that ran through the rightwing puke funnel, from Breitbart to Drudge to Powerline to NRO to Daily Caller, Politico, etc,. and which Boehner's office was pushing to several of those outfits.

Looks like the pukefunnel might have helped out for once. Cheers, wingnuts!

565 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:57:03pm

re: #551 webevintage

wocka wocka wocka

You must be one of the President's puppets, oh sorry Muppet's.

566 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:57:04pm

re: #563 bratwurst

At the wedding there will be an open bar-ley.

Will there be amnesty for the imports?

567 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:57:31pm

re: #560 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I swear... people who prophesy the end of the world from the Bible. They may have been reading it, but they sure don't understand it.

Hallelujah... you are so right.

568 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:57:52pm

I eat when I'm hungry,
I drink when I'm dry,
If a tree don't fall on me
I'll live 'till I die.

(from The American Mother Goose)

I'll eat till I'm bloated
I'll drink lots of booze
If the govm't takes care of me
How can I lose?

— The current batch of low brow politicians.

569 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:57:57pm

re: #559 Stanley Sea

What?! You mean you don't check daily on whether you're going to get plucked off this stinkin' planet?

570 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:58:09pm

re: #546 freetoken

Well, things can't be too apocalyptic if the Rapture Index is only at 171.

Why is "nuclear nations" only listed as 4? They are a little behind on that.

571 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:58:52pm

re: #569 freetoken

What?! You mean you don't check daily on whether you're going to get plucked off this stinkin' planet?

Hey, it's bookmarked now. I feel safer already.

572 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 3:59:19pm

re: #570 soap_man

The "4" is a number on their scale, not the # of nations. I think somewhere on that site is an explanation.

573 TheMatrix31  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:00:09pm

Basketball beckons. Later.

574 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:00:29pm

re: #567 Walter L. Newton

Hallelujah... you are so right.

Heck, I'm a Christian...

I have more faith in folks who try to prophesy from tea leaves, monkey turds, or the Mayan Calendar.

At least they're trying to be honest about it.

575 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:02:09pm

re: #561 HoosierHoops

It's not good...At least Kansas is getting their butts kicked..So far

Good luck; I didn't do one. I'm not big into college basketball, even though I really enjoy March Madness. I just root for the underdog every time.

576 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:02:21pm

Jim DeMint tweet about those cordial, well-behaved, decent teabaggers:

I am grateful for the thousands of patriots who are storming the Capitol today protesting government healthcare and defending freedom. Pray

[Link: twitter.com...]

577 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:03:42pm

re: #568 Ojoe

I eat when I'm hungry,
I drink when I'm dry,
If a tree don't fall on me
I'll live 'till I die.

(from The American Mother Goose)

I'll eat till I'm bloated
I'll drink lots of booze
If the govm't takes care of me
How can I lose?

— The current batch of low brow politicians.

Never make a politician (aaa-aaah) grant you a favour;
(doo-doo-doo-doo)
They will always want (aaa-aaah) to control you forever, eh!
(forever, forever)
So if a fire make it burn (make it burn, make it burn)
And if a blood make ya run (make ya run, run, run),
Rasta de 'pon top (aaa-aaah), can't you see? (doo-doo-doo-doo)
So you can't predict the flop. Eh-eh! (doo-doo-doo-doo)

>Bob Marley (as if I had to)

578 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:03:46pm

re: #533 Killgore Trout

Tea Party protesters mob Reps Lewis, Carson, Cummings


[Video]I didn't hear any racial slurs but it gives you an idea of the gauntlet they went through.

I'm really glad none of those three is named "Bill".

/silver lining

579 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:05:23pm

re: #575 soap_man

Good luck; I didn't do one. I'm not big into college basketball, even though I really enjoy March Madness. I just root for the underdog every time.

Thanks.. I am having a lot of fun this weekend..I love College BBall

580 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:06:20pm

BTW, that disgusting Browning sign that Gus and KT found?

Not an isolated incident.

h/t Balloon Juice.

581 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:07:27pm

re: #580 iceweasel

BTW, that disgusting Browning sign that Gus and KT found?

Not an isolated incident.

h/t Balloon Juice.

It looks like there is only 50 people there?

582 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:07:48pm

re: #579 HoosierHoops

Thanks.. I am having a lot of fun this weekend..I love College BBall

I heard on the radio yesterday that there were 4.5 million brackets filled out on ESPN.com, and only two, two, are perfect so far. And that was as of yesterday afternoon.

583 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:08:58pm

re: #582 soap_man

I heard on the radio yesterday that there were 4.5 million brackets filled out on ESPN.com, and only two, two, are perfect so far. And that was as of yesterday afternoon.


And those were filled out by chimps!

584 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:09:00pm

re: #582 soap_man

I heard on the radio yesterday that there were 4.5 million brackets filled out on ESPN.com, and only two, two, are perfect so far. And that was as of yesterday afternoon.

so most people don't know shit? what a surprise.

585 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:09:49pm

re: #529 bratwurst

While I am waiting for my crops to grow, will you talk to my old man for me?

About what, paying your mandatory health insurance bill?

586 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:10:34pm

re: #585 Bagua

About what, paying your mandatory health insurance bill?

stones can't bleed.

587 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:11:22pm

re: #585 Bagua

About what, paying your mandatory health insurance bill?

Since I am taking my stance against mandatory auto insurance and can't work, would you mind?

588 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:11:50pm

Hello everyone!

589 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:11:54pm

re: #584 brookly red

so most people don't know shit? what a surprise.

From the Wall Street Journal:

Filling out a perfect bracket means predicting the outcome of 63 games. If each game were a true toss-up, that would mean your chance of perfection is a mere one in two to the 63rd power, or one in nine million trillion (yes, million trillion -- there are no tidy terms for numbers this large). Put another way, you are about 60 billion times more likely to win the multistate Powerball lottery.

590 Guanxi88  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:12:08pm

re: #529 bratwurst

While I am waiting for my crops to grow, will you talk to my old man for me?

Depends on the crop.....

Wait a minute..... is that.....?

Yeah, dude, I can TOTALLY talk to your old man for ya. But I'll need a cut.

Glaucoma and anxiety, ya know.

591 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:12:10pm

re: #580 iceweasel

BTW, that disgusting Browning sign that Gus and KT found?

Not an isolated incident.

h/t Balloon Juice.

Yeah, there were two of those signs that were caught by the cameras.

592 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:12:48pm

re: #581 Walter L. Newton

It looks like there is only 50 people there?

The guy's flickr stream only has two random photos of today.

But here's the uncropped version. Guess what? Someone else standing there holding the same sign.

So that makes three. I wonder who made them?

593 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:12:57pm

re: #589 soap_man

/the odds are better if you read the bill first...

594 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:13:26pm

re: #586 brookly red

You will, I predict, see people claiming it is against their religion to be forced to buy health insurance & I think their case will stand up in the Supreme Court and this ridiculous part of the reform bill will bite the dust.

BBL

595 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:13:48pm

re: #591 Gus 802

Yeah, there were two of those signs that were caught by the cameras.

TP has them up along with other things here


[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

596 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:13:57pm

Attention: Jimmah-Ice Productions: check YouTube channel comments please.

597 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:13:58pm

re: #582 soap_man

I heard on the radio yesterday that there were 4.5 million brackets filled out on ESPN.com, and only two, two, are perfect so far. And that was as of yesterday afternoon.

It's killing me brother...It's March madness...
If Kansas loses tonight it will all be worth it...Come on Northern Iowa!

598 limewash  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:13:59pm

re: #564 iceweasel

Hoax thing make it look really desperate to try anything. Which is really sad.

599 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:14:42pm

re: #595 Thanos

TP has them up along with other things here

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Thanks, saw those before and posted about the Flickr image there earlier.

600 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:14:48pm

re: #591 Gus 802

Yeah, there were two of those signs that were caught by the cameras.

This shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A bananas.

601 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:15:14pm

re: #596 bratwurst

Attention: Jimmah-Ice Productions: check YouTube channel comments please.

Will do! Thanks. :)

602 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:16:02pm

re: #594 Ojoe

You will, I predict, see people claiming it is against their religion to be forced to buy health insurance & I think their case will stand up in the Supreme Court and this ridiculous part of the reform bill will bite the dust.

BBL

In general is it constitutional to force citizens to purchase health care insurance?

603 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:16:25pm

re: #602 Lateralis

No fucking way.

604 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:16:44pm

BBL

605 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:16:47pm

re: #594 Ojoe

You will, I predict, see people claiming it is against their religion to be forced to buy health insurance & I think their case will stand up in the Supreme Court and this ridiculous part of the reform bill will bite the dust.

BBL

oh, we do need stikin badges after all? hahahahah!

606 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:17:12pm

re: #600 iceweasel

This shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A bananas.


[Video]

Yeah. Bananas for banana country tools that hold up signs like that. They're the type that would be at the beckoning call of a banana country dictator in no seconds flat. Most of them are the "I heart insurance companies" tools which is false anyway. The insurance companies and real capitalists don't care about ignorant undereducated yokels anyway.

607 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:17:12pm

re: #591 Gus 802

Yeah, there were two of those signs that were caught by the cameras.

Let's not forget the "2nd Revolution" sign that Republican Congress Critters willingly stood in front of today.

What is it with tea party folks?
There go after a kid who's mother is sick, they scream and yell at a man with Parkinson's, they carry signs promoting violence, they call a gay Rep a fa@@ot, spit on another Rep. and call John Lewis a ni**er.

I want my country back!

608 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:17:15pm

re: #592 iceweasel

So that makes three. I wonder who made them?

Browning?

Heh, why turn down free advertisement?

609 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:17:25pm

re: #603 Ojoe

I hope not.

610 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:17:41pm

re: #592 iceweasel

The guy's flickr stream only has two random photos of today.

But here's the uncropped version. Guess what? Someone else standing there holding the same sign.

So that makes three. I wonder who made them?

I bet the secret service knows.

611 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:17:52pm

sorry that should be flag.'
2nd Revolution FLAG.

612 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:18:49pm

re: #599 Gus 802

Did you notice the "Fire line Do not cross" tape border?

Also in the wonk room there it looks like they are going to go to a vote and note use Deem and pass, so they are pretty confident.

[Link: wonkroom.thinkprogress.org...]

613 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:19:02pm

re: #600 iceweasel

This shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A bananas.

[Video]

Although. I do heart Stefani. ;)

614 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:19:36pm

re: #596 bratwurst

Attention: Jimmah-Ice Productions: check YouTube channel comments please.

Hey cutie! Aren't you sweet. Thanks. ;) Answered.

615 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:19:56pm

re: #610 Stanley Sea

I bet the secret service knows.

Let's hope and pray the Secret Service is doing their job on that crap.

616 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:20:04pm

re: #612 Thanos

Did you notice the "Fire line Do not cross" tape border?

Also in the wonk room there it looks like they are going to go to a vote and note use Deem and pass, so they are pretty confident.

[Link: wonkroom.thinkprogress.org...]

Correct. That was reported this morning. So anyone that still thinks they're going to use deem and pass is behind the news curve.

617 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:20:32pm

re: #613 Gus 802

Although. I do heart Stefani. ;)

I do too. ;)

618 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:21:15pm

re: #587 bratwurst

Since I am taking my stance against mandatory auto insurance and can't work, would you mind?

It is a false comparison. Driving a car or flying an airplane is not a fundamental condition such as being alive.

619 KingKenrod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:21:30pm

re: #602 Lateralis

In general is it constitutional to force citizens to purchase health care insurance?

Supporters of this bill laugh this question off, but I've still not heard a good legal justification for this.

620 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:21:30pm

re: #616 Gus 802

Correct. That was reported this morning. So anyone that still thinks they're going to use deem and pass is behind the news curve.

hours ago they announced they wouldn't...

621 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:22:33pm

re: #618 Bagua

It is a false comparison. Driving a car or flying an airplane is not a fundamental condition such as being alive.

You do understand that people outside of the larger cities are limited to jobs within walking distance without paying for auto insurance, right?

622 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:23:00pm

re: #616 Gus 802

Correct. That was reported this morning. So anyone that still thinks they're going to use deem and pass is behind the news curve.

That would have been me up until a few mins ago, I"ve been alternately reading & assembling an aerator for my lawn tractor most of the day.

623 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:23:10pm

re: #619 KingKenrod

Supporters of this bill laugh this question off, but I've still not heard a good legal justification for this.

Herbie pushed tony from the boys' club roof
Tony thought that his rage was just some goof
But herbie sure gave tony some bitchen proof
'"hey,'; herbie said, "tony, can you fly? "
But tony couldn't fly . . . tony died

624 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:23:28pm

Here's a really good source for up to date postings on the vote.

Load page, then refresh when it tells you there's an update

625 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:23:42pm

re: #622 Thanos

That would have been me up until a few mins ago, I"ve been alternately reading & assembling an aerator for my lawn tractor most of the day.

OK, sorry. I should probably slow down there a bit.

626 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:24:10pm

re: #255 FullRoller

Right... How many times did he vote "present"?

According to Snopes.com, in Illinois, by convention, a present vote is functionally a no vote.

627 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:24:23pm

re: #577 brookly red


Revolution


- Bob

Never make a politician, grant you a favour, they will always want to, control you forever.

628 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:24:46pm

re: #626 b_sharp

According to Snopes.com, in Illinois, by convention, a present vote is functionally a no vote.

did not know that...

629 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:24:59pm

re: #559 Stanley Sea

Where the hell did you find that!?!

Rapture Ready is always good for a laugh, just read the frigging forum, Neocons on steroids doesn't even begin to describe it. Just don't read too much, I've never seen anyplace on the internet so full of depressed people wishing for a quick non-suicidal (sinful) death. Once you trig to the "death-cult" aspect of the place it isn't really that funny anymore, you just feel sorry for them.

630 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:25:33pm

re: #580 iceweasel
Not isolated At All!

Talking about violent signs at a protest? I lose track of who is linkable so I'll just say zombie time has bone chilling protest signs photographed during the Bush presidency. The atmosphere we have had since at least Clinton's Presidency is appalling. No links for that either but I remembers seeing awful stuff then too.

3 Presidents along-It now seems to be an "accepted" level of protest, as there has always been fairly little outrage, apart from supporters of the threatened President of course.

631 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:26:23pm

re: #619 KingKenrod

Supporters of this bill laugh this question off, but I've still not heard a good legal justification for this.

I don't think that there is a good legal argument but I am sure soon enough we will find out.

632 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:27:24pm

re: #598 limewash

Hoax thing make it look really desperate to try anything. Which is really sad.

Yeah. Not so much the initial hoax, even, but the way it ran right through the whole Wingnut Scream Machine. I posted this morning that most of those outlets either hadn't retracted, or they'd added an update in tiny type to the bottom of the post and not changed the headline.
Several of them also phrased it as 'dems 'challenge' authenticity', or insinuated that it was a Dem plot to make the GOP look bad, and one aide in Bohener's office even said "the provenance of the memo doesn't matter, because this is really what the Dems are doing anyway" . (i paraphrase only slightly)

There was no freakin way to shut it down other than ditch deem and pass. Even that won't stop the screaming, but I suspect it did stiffen a few Dem spines, for once.

633 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:27:30pm

re: #271 Guanxi88

Too bad we had to take a blowtorch to the area to get rid of them.

OK, that was cringe worthy.

634 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:27:45pm

re: #602 Lateralis

In general is it constitutional to force citizens to purchase health care insurance?

The short answer is no.

635 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:27:48pm

re: #626 b_sharp

According to Snopes.com, in Illinois, by convention, a present vote is functionally a no vote.

re: #628 brookly red

did not know that...

It's true. It's way more common here in Illinois than people think it is.

636 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:28:17pm

re: #621 bratwurst

You do understand that people outside of the larger cities are limited to jobs within walking distance without paying for auto insurance, right?

They can't car pool? Work at home? You are saying everyone must have car insurance?

The fact they they can commute to job suggests gainful employment, they are a participant and can afford the costs. Insurance is an expense, a cost of the lifestyle they choose. They are not required to purchase car insurance should they choose to remain at home, car pool, hitchhike, not be employed, life off of their art, whatever... they are different issues.

637 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:29:16pm

re: #635 soap_man

It's true. It's way more common here in Illinois than people think it is.

It's an Obamameme. Still here in 2010.

.

638 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:29:51pm

re: #636 Bagua

They can't car pool? Work at home? You are saying everyone must have car insurance?

The fact they they can commute to job suggests gainful employment, they are a participant and can afford the costs. Insurance is an expense, a cost of the lifestyle they choose. They are not required to purchase car insurance should they choose to remain at home, car pool, hitchhike, not be employed, life off of their art, whatever... they are different issues.

It is also a state issue, NOT a federal mandate.

639 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:30:12pm

re: #632 iceweasel

Yeah. Not so much the initial hoax, even, but the way it ran right through the whole Wingnut Scream Machine. I posted this morning that most of those outlets either hadn't retracted, or they'd added an update in tiny type to the bottom of the post and not changed the headline.
Several of them also phrased it as 'dems 'challenge' authenticity', or insinuated that it was a Dem plot to make the GOP look bad, and one aide in Bohener's office even said "the provenance of the memo doesn't matter, because this is really what the Dems are doing anyway" . (i paraphrase only slightly)

There was no freakin way to shut it down other than ditch deem and pass. Even that won't stop the screaming, but I suspect it did stiffen a few Dem spines, for once.

Hoaxes - bribes. Pick your poison.

640 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:30:20pm

re: #635 soap_man

It's true. It's way more common here in Illinois than people think it is.

so then why not just vote no?

Oh, that would mean taking a stand, never mind.

641 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:30:46pm

re: #636 Bagua

They can't car pool? Work at home? You are saying everyone must have car insurance?

The fact they they can commute to job suggests gainful employment, they are a participant and can afford the costs. Insurance is an expense, a cost of the lifestyle they choose. They are not required to purchase car insurance should they choose to remain at home, car pool, hitchhike, not be employed, life off of their art, whatever... they are different issues.

Bicycle! I can't believe you left out bicycle!

642 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:31:16pm

re: #638 CapeCoddah

It is also a state issue, NOT a federal mandate.

Time for states rights to mack a comeback?

643 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:31:36pm

re: #636 Bagua

They can't car pool? Work at home? You are saying everyone must have car insurance?


If you work the overnight shift at 7-11 in Paola, KS (as only one of MANY examples)...you must either live within walking distance or pay for car insurance, correct.

644 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:31:44pm

re: #636 Bagua

Insurance is an expense, a cost of the lifestyle they choose.

I agree with you that this is where the analogy to car insurance breaks down.

Health insurance is also an expense, a cost of the 'lifestyle choice' of being and staying alive.

645 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:32:11pm

re: #643 bratwurst

If you work the overnight shift at 7-11 in Paola, KS (as only one of MANY examples)...you must either live within walking distance or pay for car insurance, correct.

Bicycle with lights!

646 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:32:41pm

re: #642 brookly red

Time for states rights to mack a comeback?

I would agree.

647 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:32:49pm

re: #630 Rightwingconspirator

Not isolated At All!

Talking about violent signs at a protest? I lose track of who is linkable so I'll just say zombie time has bone chilling protest signs photographed during the Bush presidency. The atmosphere we have had since at least Clinton's Presidency is appalling. No links for that either but I remembers seeing awful stuff then too.

3 Presidents along-It now seems to be an "accepted" level of protest, as there has always been fairly little outrage, apart from supporters of the threatened President of course.

This is targeting congress and government as a whole. Whatever Zombie posted was specifically against Bush and Cheney. There wasn't a general revanchist or atavistic ideology behind the anti-war protesters unless one were to look at the anarchist groups. The Tea Party movement is larger as a group then the anarchists and better armed and known to have connection with existing anti-government militia groups.

648 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:32:51pm

re: #641 wrenchwench

Bicycle! I can't believe you left out bicycle!

In the winter we jsut went through? Darn global warming! ;)

649 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:33:55pm

re: #644 iceweasel

I agree with you that this is where the analogy to car insurance breaks down.

Health insurance is also an expense, a cost of the 'lifestyle choice' of being and staying alive.

Driving is a privilege not a right. I think I have a constitutional right to be alive.

650 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:34:32pm

re: #645 wrenchwench

Bicycle with lights!

made by UAW workers $14,995... batteries not included.

651 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:34:48pm

re: #625 Gus 802

Why apologize? You were just stating facts, no offense taken.

652 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:35:08pm

I have racked up 85 miles on my commuter bike since January 14th. A few of those miles were while it was snowing. When there was snow and ice on the street, I walked.

653 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:35:14pm

re: #649 Lateralis

Driving is a privilege not a right. I think I have a constitutional right to be alive.

at least until Sunday...

654 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:35:23pm

re: #640 brookly red

so then why not just vote no?

Oh, that would mean taking a stand, never mind.

If I understand correctly, voting present is just a milder way to say no. Sort of like "no" is "this bill is bullshit" and "present" is more like "I'm not opposed in principle, but I oppose this particular bill" or "I don't hate it, but I don't like it either."

They should probably just get rid of it, since accusations of fence-sitting are common. But a present vote is still a no vote, no matter how you want to slice it.

655 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:35:29pm

re: #649 Lateralis

Driving is a privilege not a right. I think I have a constitutional right to be alive.

You also have a right to be dead. Apparently, we will need permission to die.

656 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:35:37pm

re: #653 brookly red

at least until Sunday...

Death panels!

657 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:36:42pm

re: #652 wrenchwench

I have racked up 85 miles on my commuter bike since January 14th. A few of those miles were while it was snowing. When there was snow and ice on the street, I walked.

You rock!

658 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:36:42pm

re: #656 Gus 802

Death panels!

Like I said earlier, if we're going to euthanize the seniors can we at least start with Congress? Listening to their own bullshit for hours on end seems a fitting way to send them off.

659 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:37:33pm

re: #656 Gus 802

Death panels!

I can't die, I pay taxes...

660 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:38:07pm

re: #640 brookly red

Uh-huh.

He explained.

Several times during the Democratic debates and the earlier parts of the campaign.

It's a meme.

Rises to the level of meme and nothing more.

661 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:38:19pm

So if health care is not a right then staying alive is not a right. What if you go further and say that being health is not a right? What if we extend that and say that there is no right to clean air and clean water. After all, remaining healthy requires a healthy environment.

In that case than environmental control is tied in with health care. Thus becoming ill due to toxins and requiring health care is not a right? Sounds like something Ron Paul would support.

662 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:38:24pm

re: #654 soap_man

But a present vote is still a no vote, no matter how you want to slice it.

In fact, when newpapers report a total vote, they lump the "nos" and "presents" together.

"The bill failed by a 41-23 vote this afternoon..."

663 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:38:35pm

re: #659 brookly red

I can't die, I pay taxes...

Sure you can if you get sick and can't get anyone to treat you because you are broke.

664 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:38:41pm

Opps, Obamacare is slipping on Intrade

Bid 78.1 Ask 83.9, down 4.7. re: #643 bratwurst

If you work the overnight shift at 7-11 in Paola, KS (as only one of MANY examples)...you must either live within walking distance or pay for car insurance, correct.

Correct, thus one has the choice to live within walking distance, car pool, not work at that 7-11, stay home and work on one's novel, paint, write poetry, do nothing... the freedom is there to life an alternative lifestyle at one's own choice.

Mandatory expense for the lifestyle choice or simply being alive, just like mandatory employment, does not strike me as freedom, rather as sort of servitude. Some of us march by a different drummer, and are willing to take our chances with the things we choose not to participate in or prepare for.

665 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:39:11pm

re: #647 Gus 802

All true but beside my point. The atmosphere is now such that violent signs are accepted as a apart of a peaceful protest. I say this not on a legal context but the sheer lack of popular outrage against such. The rest is mere detail. Which President, Tea Party or Anarchist, gun or noose or burning in effigy.

I hate this stuff, I really do. So much I have been unable to forget the crap I have seen, and therefore can not treat todays as something fundamentally new. Or rare. Or (long term) right wing exclusive. I am glad of the call out here. I'd really be thrilled to see this outrage be more popular and long lasting. So just maybe the anarchists and the Tea Party gets enough heat to tone it down.

666 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:39:20pm

re: #660 wozzablog

Uh-huh.

He explained.

Several times during the Democratic debates and the earlier parts of the campaign.

It's a meme.

Rises to the level of meme and nothing more.

will you please get a life...

667 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:39:38pm

re: #666 brookly red

No.

668 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:39:41pm

I skimmed through the Hot Air thread about the hateful slurs at the Tea Party. They pretty much all agree that it was leftist plants or the stories are just made up.

669 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:40:34pm

re: #663 PT Barnum

Sure you can if you get sick and can't get anyone to treat you because you are broke.

hint: date doctors...

670 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:40:38pm

re: #666 brookly red

will you please get a life...

Kinda sucks to have someone shoot down your nonsense with facts, doesn't it?

671 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:40:41pm

re: #657 HoosierHoops

You rock!

Eh, it's nothing, really. I do it because I like it. Our two-person household owns one motorized vehicle, which I use to do the shopping and go to the laundromat. It's too easy for people to think of reasons they can't commute by bike, and not that hard to figure out how they can.

672 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:40:45pm

re: #656 Gus 802

Death panels!

Heh.

673 KingKenrod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:40:56pm

re: #661 Gus 802

So if health care is not a right then staying alive is not a right. What if you go further and say that being health is not a right? What if we extend that and say that there is no right to clean air and clean water. After all, remaining healthy requires a healthy environment.

In that case than environmental control is tied in with health care. Thus becoming ill due to toxins and requiring health care is not a right? Sounds like something Ron Paul would support.

I'm not sure if you are arguing that health care is a right (the right to enter contracts is a natural right), or if society is required to provide health care to you (a legal right).

674 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:41:11pm

re: #661 Gus 802

What you've touched on is, I believe, that there is a lack of a unified contemporary view of the concept of a "right". That the word is so poorly defined, or perhaps better still, conflictingly defined, makes sense if you look at the history of the concept.

675 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:41:12pm

re: #669 brookly red

hint: date doctors...

So now you're suggesting people should prostitute themselves to get medical care?

676 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:41:21pm

re: #670 PT Barnum

Kinda sucks to have someone shoot down your nonsense with facts, doesn't it?

I guess, if you say so ...

677 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:41:21pm

If health care is not a right than if you get ill because of toxins from say a coal powered power plant than legal redress for payment of health expenses is not a right? You get sick and aren't rich or have wealthy parents or health insurance tough shit? According to Constitutionalists like Ron Paul you should not even have a right to sue.

678 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:41:50pm

re: #667 wozzablog

I mean, thank you - but, no.

The present/not present debate was hashed over in the early months of his candidacy. It was old news in January 2009.

679 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:42:03pm

re: #675 PT Barnum

So now you're suggesting people should prostitute themselves to get medical care?

works for me ;) I also like to kiss the barmaids....

680 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:42:39pm

re: #668 Killgore Trout

HotWingNuts - home of da Nile.

681 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:42:51pm

re: #653 brookly red

at least until Sunday...

This will not end tomorrow, the Republicans have enough votes to send it back for a re-vote on a couple of points of order.
Constitutionally, there will be a big problem if it is assed in this fashion, because the language being voted on is not identical in both chambers. That is a big No-No, like it or not. Even if it passes, the only dems who will be left in either chamber come January will be those who are not up for re-election, and this mess, if it passes will be scuttled then. The main campaign point, should this pass will be promises to repeal it and we will see what blowout really means. The donks are signing their own death warrant with this, and they think it will keep them in office.
They are in for a shocka.

682 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:42:57pm

re: #679 brookly red

works for me ;) I also like to kiss the barmaids...

Beerwhore!

683 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:43:17pm

re: #678 wozzablog


The present/not present debate was hashed over in the early months of his candidacy. It was old news in January 2009.

But the wingnuts have the memory of a goldfish, so it's still a valid point to them.

684 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:44:44pm

re: #665 Rightwingconspirator

All true but beside my point. The atmosphere is now such that violent signs are accepted as a apart of a peaceful protest. I say this not on a legal context but the sheer lack of popular outrage against such. The rest is mere detail. Which President, Tea Party or Anarchist, gun or noose or burning in effigy.

I hate this stuff, I really do. So much I have been unable to forget the crap I have seen, and therefore can not treat todays as something fundamentally new. Or rare. Or (long term) right wing exclusive. I am glad of the call out here. I'd really be thrilled to see this outrage be more popular and long lasting. So just maybe the anarchists and the Tea Party gets enough heat to tone it down.

Meanwhile, in another part of Washington...

685 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:44:52pm

re: #673 KingKenrod

I'm not sure if you are arguing that health care is a right (the right to enter contracts is a natural right), or if society is required to provide health care to you (a legal right).

Does this mean the people who got ill at Ground Zero have no right to health care, from society? Or is it their personal responsibility to have had health insurance to being with?

Just asking questions.

686 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:44:54pm

re: #681 CapeCoddah

I will repeat to you what I posted above...

Fortunately, after tomorrow, the Democrats will be able to proudly stand up and take credit for the total reformation of the substandard and unfair state of health care in this country.

The GOP has made a really big mistake not paying close attention to the will of the majority of Americans, who want this reform, who want this bill, Americans and doctors and the medical community who in poll after poll has shown favor to this health care reform bill.

But, the public will be able to make their dissatisfaction known this coming November when they will have to opportunity to vote out the GOP incumbents who spent so much time and effort in attempting to deny this legislation to this country.

Can anyone disagree with these facts?

687 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:45:29pm

re: #682 Bagua

Beerwhore!

and now that you mention it... since her husband died the landlady is lookin kinda cute too.

688 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:45:40pm

Mr. Trolololo quotes Pushkin

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

689 KingKenrod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:45:55pm

re: #681 CapeCoddah

This will not end tomorrow, the Republicans have enough votes to send it back for a re-vote on a couple of points of order.
Constitutionally, there will be a big problem if it is assed in this fashion, because the language being voted on is not identical in both chambers. That is a big No-No, like it or not. Even if it passes, the only dems who will be left in either chamber come January will be those who are not up for re-election, and this mess, if it passes will be scuttled then. The main campaign point, should this pass will be promises to repeal it and we will see what blowout really means. The donks are signing their own death warrant with this, and they think it will keep them in office.
They are in for a shocka.

My understanding is the House will vote on the exact Senate bill language tomorrow. If it passes, then Obama just needs to sign it. What they do to "fix" it afterwards is anybody's guess.

690 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:46:09pm

re: #681 CapeCoddah

This will not end tomorrow, the Republicans have enough votes to send it back for a re-vote on a couple of points of order.
Constitutionally, there will be a big problem if it is assed in this fashion, because the language being voted on is not identical in both chambers. That is a big No-No, like it or not. Even if it passes, the only dems who will be left in either chamber come January will be those who are not up for re-election, and this mess, if it passes will be scuttled then. The main campaign point, should this pass will be promises to repeal it and we will see what blowout really means. The donks are signing their own death warrant with this, and they think it will keep them in office.
They are in for a shocka.

I think the repubs are going to have a hard time running against regulation of the insurance industry, which will mean that even if they do repeal it, some of the items will either stick around or be fun little points for the next election.

Senator Lardbottom made it possible for your insurance company to drop your coverage just because you got sick.

Senator Lardbottom sided with the insurance companies to deny care to sick children.

etc. etc...

691 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:46:39pm

re: #681 CapeCoddah

TThe donks are signing their own death warrant with this, and they think it will keep them in office.

I guess you should hope they pass it then, huh?
Reminder: deem and pass is off the table. Which was constitutional anyway.

692 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:46:57pm

Let's see. So health care is not a right. Basically, it's not society's responsibility to take care of their brothers and sisters -- collectively. However, the ability to deny health insurance to someone which in the end results in their death is a right since it maintains profitability as a whole.

Interesting.

693 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:47:00pm

re: #689 KingKenrod

My understanding is the House will vote on the exact Senate bill language tomorrow. If it passes, then Obama just needs to sign it. What they do to "fix" it afterwards is anybody's guess.

Fixes needed...

1) Public option (or extend Medicaid to all)

All fixed.

694 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:47:04pm

re: #686 Walter L. Newton

I will repeat to you what I posted above...

Fortunately, after tomorrow, the Democrats will be able to proudly stand up and take credit for the total reformation of the substandard and unfair state of health care in this country.

The GOP has made a really big mistake not paying close attention to the will of the majority of Americans, who want this reform, who want this bill, Americans and doctors and the medical community who in poll after poll has shown favor to this health care reform bill.

But, the public will be able to make their dissatisfaction known this coming November when they will have to opportunity to vote out the GOP incumbents who spent so much time and effort in attempting to deny this legislation to this country.

Can anyone disagree with these facts?

Hommie your your pearls are being trampled underfoot...

695 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:47:45pm

re: #693 Walter L. Newton

Fixes needed...

1) Public option (or extend Medicaid to all)

All fixed.

Who are you and what have you done with Mr. Crankypants? :)

696 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:48:25pm

re: #693 Walter L. Newton

Fixes needed...

1) Public option (or extend Medicaid to all)

All fixed.

wow. You think that is a fix. Unbelieveable.

697 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:48:25pm

re: #695 PT Barnum

Who are you and what have you done with Mr. Crankypants? :)

FU (better?)

698 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:48:32pm

re: #692 Gus 802

Let's see. So health care is not a right. Basically, it's not society's responsibility to take care of their brothers and sisters -- collectively. However, the ability to deny health insurance to someone which in the end results in their death is a right since it maintains profitability as a whole.

Interesting.

Won't someone think of the corporations? Who stands up for their rights, huh?

699 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:48:43pm

re: #695 PT Barnum

Well, remember, he's an Actor.

700 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:48:54pm

re: #697 Walter L. Newton

FU (better?)

Yeah, you had me worried there for a minute...

:)

701 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:49:01pm

re: #696 Lateralis

wow. You think that is a fix. Unbelieveable.

Unbelievable . SP sorry

702 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:49:12pm

re: #699 windsagio

Well, remember, he's an Actor.

Would you stay the fuck out of this while I have some fun?

703 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:49:40pm

re: #693 Walter L. Newton

Fixes needed...

1) Public option (or extend Medicaid to all)

All fixed.

/dose 5% appear too small?, be greatfull I don't take it all...

704 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:49:54pm

re: #702 Walter L. Newton

Steve's not around, and the nuts are being too nutty, who else do I have to bicker with?

705 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:50:19pm

re: #701 Lateralis

Unbelievable . SP sorry

That's better. I wasn't going to reply to you with that mangled English. What's wrong with extending Medicaid to everyone?

706 KingKenrod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:50:22pm

re: #685 Gus 802

Does this mean the people who got ill at Ground Zero have no right to health care, from society? Or is it their personal responsibility to have had health insurance to being with?

Just asking questions.

OK, that is a legal question. If society wants to pay for these people - and a compassionate society would (I hope) - then these people can obtain the legal right to have their health issues paid for. However, they do not have a natural right to be provided for.

707 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:50:32pm

re: #698 iceweasel

Won't someone think of the corporations? Who stands up for their rights, huh?

This calls for some harmonica music!

So much for going John Galt no? lol What a joke. They're the furthest from John Galt if you think about it. It's like they want to have their cake and eat it too. They claim to be against government collectives yet they're just so crazy about corporate collectivism.

708 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:51:07pm

re: #688 Thanos

Mr. Trolololo quotes Pushkin

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

From your liink:

Khil's son Dmitry, also a musician, says his dad doesn't really know what the Internet is and suspects all this newfound attention is some kind of joke.

Lololo

709 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:51:23pm

re: #690 PT Barnum

I think the repubs are going to have a hard time running against regulation of the insurance industry, which will mean that even if they do repeal it, some of the items will either stick around or be fun little points for the next election.

Senator Lardbottom made it possible for your insurance company to drop your coverage just because you got sick.

Senator Lardbottom sided with the insurance companies to deny care to sick children.

etc. etc...

I'm going to repeat myself, and suggest that you, too, have a listen to the This American Life episode I linked above. It covers the history of our present health insurance system, the wild success - and looming failure - of prescription copays introduced by the insurance industry, various distortions directly caused by insurance plans and other interesting facets of this complex and not always obvious topic.

When it first aired a few months ago, I sent links to my representatives; I think it ought to be mandatory listening for everyone in the House and Senate. Rather obviously, no one has taken my advice.

710 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:51:29pm

re: #686 Walter L. Newton

I will repeat to you what I posted above...

Fortunately, after tomorrow, the Democrats will be able to proudly stand up and take credit for the total reformation of the substandard and unfair state of health care in this country.

The GOP has made a really big mistake not paying close attention to the will of the majority of Americans, who want this reform, who want this bill, Americans and doctors and the medical community who in poll after poll has shown favor to this health care reform bill.

But, the public will be able to make their dissatisfaction known this coming November when they will have to opportunity to vote out the GOP incumbents who spent so much time and effort in attempting to deny this legislation to this country.

Can anyone disagree with these facts?

They can proudly take credit for anything they want, Walter. The American people are not stupid, by and large. People are pissed. This will be the death of their majority. There will be more janitors than democrats left on the hill when this is over. Hopefully, after the next election, we can get a few lws that actually make sense, like forcing the insurance companies to form a high risk pool outlawing denial for pre existing conditions, fraud and waste elimination... the simple things that need to be done to make things better for everyone. Most Americans see this for what it is, no matter party affiliation. They can crow all they want, but it will backfire bigtime. Crowing will seal it for them, permanent vacation wise.

711 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:51:30pm

re: #699 windsagio

Well, remember, he's an Actor.

Hush! I wanna see Walter make a case for the public option! :)

712 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:51:36pm

re: #690 PT Barnum

That is the gift of all gifts.

The favorabillity of Reform was at one point exceptionally high - adverts like that will connect and remind the soccermoms that the GOP would like insurance companies to be able to drop the coverage of their children down the line because she had cancer/diabetes/broken leg/acne/athetes foot.

713 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:51:55pm

Maybe the Health Care bill will have the same fate as the President's Kansas pick.

714 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:52:09pm

re: #704 windsagio

Steve's not around, and the nuts are being too nutty, who else do I have to bicker with?

You want I should call Stevo and tell him to get on here and bat you around? I got his phone number. I got a LOT of Lizard phone numbers. I'm actually rather friendly when I'm off of here. SOme of these Lizards even stop by and say hi... even yucky Lizards like Cato.

Do you know what it's like to have a Cato in your guest bedroom?

715 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:52:32pm

re: #680 freetoken

HotWingNuts - home of da Nile.

Yup. Nobody's even close to acknowledging the problem.

716 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:52:35pm

Yahoo! Kansas lost to Northern Iowa! You have no idea how happy I am!
This is great..*running around the house yelling!*

717 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:52:35pm

re: #689 KingKenrod

What they do to "fix" it afterwards is anybody's guess.


DEATH PANELS!!

718 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:52:51pm

re: #681 CapeCoddah

This will not end tomorrow, the Republicans have enough votes to send it back for a re-vote on a couple of points of order.
Constitutionally, there will be a big problem if it is assed in this fashion, because the language being voted on is not identical in both chambers. That is a big No-No, like it or not. Even if it passes, the only dems who will be left in either chamber come January will be those who are not up for re-election, and this mess, if it passes will be scuttled then. The main campaign point, should this pass will be promises to repeal it and we will see what blowout really means. The donks are signing their own death warrant with this, and they think it will keep them in office.
They are in for a shocka.

The GOP will win back many seats this year (although I highly doubt they will take control of either chamber) but their long-term prospects look grim.

The Dems are waiting for this summer for immigration reform. The GOP will oppose it strongly, in part because many won't like any bill the Dems will put forward. The rest will oppose it because they are scared of the Tea Parties. And speaking of the Tea Parties, if you think its ugly now, wait until immigration reform starts. You ain't seen nothing yet.

So, the GOP can say bye-bye to the fastest growing voting bloc in the country. They do it at their own peril.

719 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:53:09pm

re: #706 KingKenrod

OK, that is a legal question. If society wants to pay for these people - and a compassionate society would (I hope) - then these people can obtain the legal right to have their health issues paid for. However, they do not have a natural right to be provided for.

Moot. they have a class action lawsuit that a judge just tossed back cause 650 millionish was too small.

720 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:53:52pm

DUDE!
N. Iowa!
!!!!!!!!!!!

721 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:54:11pm

re: #684 SixDegrees

There you have it. It appears leftwingnut heads actually do spin in the opposite direction from rightwingnuts!

722 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:54:52pm

re: #716 HoosierHoops

Yahoo! Kansas lost to Northern Iowa! You have no idea how happy I am!
This is great..*running around the house yelling!*

I'm a UNI alum...don't care about basketball, but cool

723 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:55:00pm

re: #641 wrenchwench

Bicycle! I can't believe you left out bicycle!

Oh, and you are going to tell me am I REQUIRED to buy a helmet now too, right? ;)

724 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:55:02pm

re: #714 Walter L. Newton

You want I should call Stevo and tell him to get on here and bat you around? I got his phone number. I got a LOT of Lizard phone numbers. I'm actually rather friendly when I'm off of here. SOme of these Lizards even stop by and say hi... even yucky Lizards like Cato.

Do you know what it's like to have a Cato in your guest bedroom?

Having talked to you...No matter what..You have a beautiful spirit Walter in person..It's hard to stay mad at you Bastard! *wink*

725 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:55:25pm

re: #713 Lateralis

Maybe the Health Care bill will have the same fate as the President's Kansas pick.

You didn't answer my question... "What's wrong with extending Medicaid to everyone?"

726 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:55:55pm

re: #713 Lateralis

Maybe the Health Care bill will have the same fate as the President's Kansas pick.

No it will first pass and then be voided as unconstitutional... I have nothing against TRUE reform. But this will not stand.

727 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:56:26pm

re: #724 HoosierHoops

Having talked to you...No matter what..You have a beautiful spirit Walter in person..It's hard to stay mad at you Bastard! *wink*

Windy said it's my charm... I still think it's my good looks. But, who knows... one shouldn't quibble over so many wonderful qualities like I have... I guess I should just thank Gaia that I have them.

728 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:56:31pm

re: #723 bratwurst

Oh, and you are going to tell me am I REQUIRED to buy a helmet now too, right? ;)

You are flirting!!

729 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:56:41pm

re: #726 brookly red

No it will first pass and then be voided as unconstitutional... I have nothing against TRUE reform. But this will not stand.

Yes it will... watch.

730 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:56:59pm

re: #723 bratwurst

Oh, and you are going to tell me am I REQUIRED to buy a helmet now too, right? ;)

BICYCLE!

731 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:56:59pm

re: #718 soap_man

Ticking off those being buried by insurance costs and hispanics - not a winning policy given the demographics of the next 20 years.

They are welcome to do it.

I still feel for the *homeless* GOP voters who don't like the complete sell out to the uber nonsensical Right - but any sympathy i had the the GOP i had as an entity is pretty much gone. The caucus and the stratergists have an elctoral death wish. anything the Democrats can do to help them with that is fair game now.

If they slide far enough towards obscurity maybe a sane conservative party will emerge that is not entirely kneejerk towards everything and anything invented since 1950.

732 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:57:02pm

re: #714 Walter L. Newton

Lord, don't do that, you called my bluff :P

733 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:57:49pm

re: #729 Walter L. Newton

Yes it will... watch.

it will pass, it will not stand... remember McCain/Finegold?

734 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:57:52pm

re: #727 Walter L. Newton

Windy said it's my charm... I still think it's my good looks. But, who knows... one shouldn't quibble over so many wonderful qualities like I have... I guess I should just thank Gaia that I have them.

You are a joy to speak to.. Windy is a lucky girl..
kind regards

735 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:58:12pm

re: #730 PT Barnum

BICYCLE!


[Video]

A low point for an otherwise excellent band, pretty much anyway you look at it.

736 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:58:20pm

re: #720 webevintage

DUDE!
N. Iowa!
!!!

The ultimate bracket breaker. I had KU taking it all.

Go Northern Iowa! Where the hell is that school anyway. North Iowa I suppose - a gym in the middle of a cornfield? Can I get the GPS coordinates.

737 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:58:37pm

re: #734 HoosierHoops

You are a joy to speak to.. Windy is a lucky girl..
kind regards

Windsagio... should I tell him?

738 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:58:54pm

re: #731 wozzablog

I didn't mean *people buried by Hispanics....* - the percentage of people actually ticked off by gravediggers of Hispanic origin must be interminably small.

739 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:59:01pm

re: #737 Walter L. Newton

Windsagio... should I tell him?

Windy is composing a response, I trust.

740 freetoken  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:59:05pm

re: #736 The Shadow Do

It's outside Waterloo. Not a very big school either, I think.

741 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:59:08pm

re: #737 Walter L. Newton

I'm living my dream right now, don't ruin it >>

742 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:59:55pm

re: #739 Stanley Sea

I spent an internet lifetime having people think that, I'm lovin' it :D

743 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 4:59:56pm

re: #723 bratwurst

Oh, and you are going to tell me am I REQUIRED to buy a helmet now too, right? ;)

You are in Massachusetts.

744 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:00:04pm

re: #741 windsagio

I'm living my dream right now, don't ruin it >>

Really... I almost fell of my fucking chair when HH said that. HH... Windy is my nickname for Windsagio... not my girlfriend.

745 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:00:11pm

re: #733 brookly red

it will pass, it will not stand... remember McCain/Finegold?

Yeah. Thank good that was overturned through Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission. I am really happy now that corporations can play an unprecedented role in politics now and that legal precedent was ignored by the SCOTUS for the first time in history.

746 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:00:14pm

re: #740 freetoken

It's outside Waterloo. Not a very big school either, I think.

Isn't that in France?

747 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:00:42pm

re: #736 The Shadow Do

The ultimate bracket breaker. I had KU taking it all.

Go Northern Iowa! Where the hell is that school anyway. North Iowa I suppose - a gym in the middle of a cornfield? Can I get the GPS coordinates.

Cedar Falls, IA...Excellent school for learning things....most undergrad classes taught by professors rather than underpaid Graduate Assistants.

748 blueraven  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:01:24pm

re: #698 iceweasel

Won't someone think of the corporations? Who stands up for their rights, huh?

SCOTUS

749 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:01:31pm

Well, the brown butter experiments were a huge success. I wound up with about a cup of fried milk solids that absolutely reek of that brown butter aroma, and a cup of clarified butter that's also infused with it. Mix the two together, and it's like brown butter to the nth degree.

I'm betting the solids alone will make an interesting condiment. I may be forced to sprinkle them on eggs and hash browns tomorrow.

750 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:01:45pm

re: #747 PT Barnum

Cedar Falls, IA...Excellent school for learning things...most undergrad classes taught by professors rather than underpaid Graduate Assistants.

Got a gym too, one supposes...

751 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:01:50pm

re: #725 Walter L. Newton

You didn't answer my question... "What's wrong with extending Medicaid to everyone?"

Paying for it, Walter. "Everything free in America" sounds great, but nothing is free.
Why has reality taken a hiatus?

752 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:01:59pm

Wow, Lateralis registered the same day I did. I guess we cancel each other out.

753 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:02:10pm

re: #725 Walter L. Newton

You didn't answer my question... "What's wrong with extending Medicaid to everyone?"

If everyone has government health care, Medicaid, or quality of care will decline. For starters, if the government is in total control of the health care system there is now way you are going to have the same caliber of individual choosing to put themselves through med school. We need a few changes to the system to improve care such as risk pools.

754 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:02:19pm

re: #733 brookly red

it will pass, it will not stand... remember McCain/Finegold?

It will stand. Every last bit of it, section by section... and more will be added.

755 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:02:52pm

re: #748 blueraven

SCOTUS

Exactly. Some of the peeps here who are so violently against HCR are also, naturally, fierce defenders of Citizens United. lol.

756 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:03:22pm

With Kansas out...I could still win this year!
I picked the Orangeman to win it all...98% of everybody picked Kansas!
Woo hoo!

757 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:03:23pm

re: #753 Lateralis

If everyone has government health care, Medicaid, or quality of care will decline. For starters, if the government is in total control of the health care system there is now way you are going to have the same caliber of individual choosing to put themselves through med school. We need a few changes to the system to improve care such as risk pools.

Where did I say anything about total control? Please quote me? I asked you "What's wrong with extending Medicaid to everyone?" Extending... not requiring.

758 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:03:41pm

re: #748 blueraven

OH SNAP!

759 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:03:45pm

re: #756 HoosierHoops

With Kansas out...I could still win this year!
I picked the Orangeman to win it all...98% of everybody picked Kansas!
Woo hoo!

ME TOO!

760 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:03:49pm

re: #745 Gus 802

Yeah. Thank good that was overturned through Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission. I am really happy now that corporations can play an unprecedented role in politics now and that legal precedent was ignored by the SCOTUS for the first time in history.

pissh. Cooperations... like you have no steak.

761 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:04:00pm

re: #733 brookly red

it will pass, it will not stand... remember McCain/Finegold?

That damned pesky Constitution again!

762 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:04:01pm

Actually I love the N. Iowa story today. Indiana State alum here. Some basketball got played there too - back in the day

763 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:04:10pm

re: #752 prairiefire

Wow, Lateralis registered the same day I did. I guess we cancel each other out.

Karma counts my friend.

764 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:04:14pm

I couldn't help but notice people using polling data to "prove" that American public opinion is against this health care reform legislation.

Given the context of LGF I suggest these same people better not look at polling data regarding public approval of the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan.

Would they come to the same conclusion based on public opinion in those matters?

765 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:04:30pm

re: #753 Lateralis

If everyone has government health care, Medicaid, or quality of care will decline. For starters, if the government is in total control of the health care system there is now way you are going to have the same caliber of individual choosing to put themselves through med school. We need a few changes to the system to improve care such as risk pools.

So European, Canadian, Brit, Australian,... doctors are all lower calibre?

The government is going to have total control? How so?

766 limewash  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:04:45pm

re: #751 CapeCoddah

That is understandable. What I understood is that one can pay into this system before age 65. I like the idea that I can pay into a health care insurance that I want.

767 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:04:52pm

re: #757 Walter L. Newton

Where did I say anything about total control? Please quote me? I asked you "What's wrong with extending Medicaid to everyone?" Extending... not requiring.

Dude you kill me. It depends what is means right.

768 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:04:56pm

My sister lives in Waterloo Iowa.
I called her and they are going CRAZY at her house!

769 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:05:43pm

re: #751 CapeCoddah

Paying for it, Walter. "Everything free in America" sounds great, but nothing is free.
Why has reality taken a hiatus?

I will bet you that you and I could sit down and look over all the thousands and thousands of dollars being wasted on pork programs and find enough money right there. There is money available.

770 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:06:46pm

re: #768 webevintage

My sister lives in Waterloo Iowa.
I called her and they are going CRAZY at her house!

What highschool did she go to?
Or is she a recent transplant?

I went to Waterloo Central (sadly no longer exists)

771 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:06:59pm

re: #759 Stanley Sea

ME TOO!

Isn't this great?!
The reason I love March Madness is because it's like the Superbowl times 65..
I might win...There is going to be a lot of bummed out people at the water cooler Monday morning..YES!

772 soap_man  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:07:34pm

re: #767 Lateralis

Dude you kill me. It depends what is means right.

That don't make no sense.

Anyway, I'm out. I'm obligated to go to this shindig tonight, although I'm not happy about braving the weather.

Have a safe night everyone.

773 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:07:36pm

re: #770 PT Barnum

What highschool did she go to?
Or is she a recent transplant?

I went to Waterloo Central (sadly no longer exists)


Transplant from St. Louis.

774 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:07:43pm

re: #767 Lateralis

Dude you kill me. It depends what is means right.

When does "extending" mean "total control?" I never said total control, did I. And dude, you kill me, because you didn't answer my question. I asked you "What's wrong with extending Medicaid to everyone?" Now that you understand my question, and the meaning of extending, how is my suggestion a problem?

775 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:07:48pm

re: #756 HoosierHoops

With Kansas out...I could still win this year!
I picked the Orangeman to win it all...98% of everybody picked Kansas!
Woo hoo!

Northern Iowa will kick their ass!

776 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:07:48pm

re: #757 Walter L. Newton

There are problems inherent with everything.

The case made for compulsion during the primary - it was the only difference between Hilary and Obama in policy terms - was that it would increase the take up among those who wanted it but could not afford it, over the voluntary system where those at the very bottom who would like it but can't afford it would be deterred by paperwork.
If you HAVE to do the paperwork you are more likely to do it. Thats the case made anyway.

777 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:08:37pm

re: #749 SixDegrees

Well, the brown butter experiments were a huge success. I wound up with about a cup of fried milk solids that absolutely reek of that brown butter aroma, and a cup of clarified butter that's also infused with it. Mix the two together, and it's like brown butter to the nth degree.

I'm betting the solids alone will make an interesting condiment. I may be forced to sprinkle them on eggs and hash browns tomorrow.

Interesting. What prompted the experiment? I've been dabbling with a little simple cheese making. I'm looking forward to experimenting with some more complex cheeses.

778 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:08:37pm

re: #772 soap_man

That don't make no sense.

Anyway, I'm out. I'm obligated to go to this shindig tonight, although I'm not happy about braving the weather.

Have a safe night everyone.

You too. We got about 18 inches yesterday, hope it doesn't bring you that much?

779 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:09:27pm

re: #769 Walter L. Newton

I will bet you that you and I could sit down and look over all the thousands and thousands of dollars being wasted on pork programs and find enough money right there. There is money available.

well now you touched a nerve... OK I will go along with single payer if we take all the funding from existing programs... no problemo bring it on!

780 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:10:14pm

re: #774 Walter L. Newton

When does "extending" mean "total control?" (snip)

It doesn't, but some people see everything in terms of the extremes. Nuance and subtlety fly right by them.

781 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:10:15pm

re: #775 The Shadow Do

Northern Iowa will kick their ass!

Can you believe it? The only time Kansas was a head was 2-0.. Period..
Ali just drained the shots.. Ice cold...WOW.. This is great this year

782 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:10:18pm

re: #769 Walter L. Newton

I will bet you that you and I could sit down and look over all the thousands and thousands of dollars being wasted on pork programs and find enough money right there. There is money available.

But that wasted money will never be taken from those pork programs, or all the other places it is wasted. Again with the reality.

783 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:10:18pm

re: #776 wozzablog

There are problems inherent with everything.

The case made for compulsion during the primary - it was the only difference between Hilary and Obama in policy terms - was that it would increase the take up among those who wanted it but could not afford it, over the voluntary system where those at the very bottom who would like it but can't afford it would be deterred by paperwork.
If you HAVE to do the paperwork you are more likely to do it. Thats the case made anyway.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. I suggested extending Medicaid for anyone who wants it. Would you like that?

784 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:10:35pm

re: #745 Gus 802

Yeah. Thank good that was overturned through Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission. I am really happy now that corporations can play an unprecedented role in politics now and that legal precedent was ignored by the SCOTUS for the first time in history.

Are you suggesting that things were any different prior to the ruling? The only real difference I see is that now, corporations will be directly linked to the ads they fund, whereas in the past their sponsorship was often obscured through a convoluted chain of PACs and SIGs. I'd much prefer to see a political ad "Paid for by Monsanto" than one from the "Americans for Fairness Coalition" or some other such aggregator. Restrictions on corporate funding, just like contribution limits for individuals, never accomplished anything like their intended ends; they simply caused the same amount of money to flow through different pathways.

Also, the notion that corporations are to be treated as individuals forms the basis for laws holding corporations responsible and liable for things like faulty products, polluted land and water, and manslaughter. Be careful what you demand - assigning special status to corporations and removing their identity as individuals throws an awful lot of babies out with the bathwater.

785 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:11:17pm

re: #760 brookly red

pissh. Cooperations... like you have no steak.

I don't hate corporations. I just believe in balance. Frankly the corporate tax is too high comparatively speaking. They do great things but they also fail in many aspects. They're not the answer to everything in society.

786 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:11:48pm

re: #782 CapeCoddah

But that wasted money will never be taken from those pork programs, or all the other places it is wasted. Again with the reality.

No again with the let's not look at the possibilities. So, we just go along with the status quo, we don't try to make a real effort to change anything. I hope you're happy with that?

787 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:12:01pm

re: #730 PT Barnum

BICYCLE!


[Video]

I am all about Fat Bottomed Girls!

788 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:12:43pm

re: #774 Walter L. Newton

When does "extending" mean "total control?" I never said total control, did I. And dude, you kill me, because you didn't answer my question. I asked you "What's wrong with extending Medicaid to everyone?" Now that you understand my question, and the meaning of extending, how is my suggestion a problem?

Because Medicaid does not work from a cost stand point. They force physicians to take reimbursement rates well below what it cost for the procedures. In turn the cost is shifted to private insurance carriers.

789 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:13:35pm

re: #786 Walter L. Newton

No again with the let's not look at the possibilities. So, we just go along with the status quo, we don't try to make a real effort to change anything. I hope you're happy with that?

the DA's office needs a few good people.

790 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:14:06pm

re: #772 soap_man

That don't make no sense.

Anyway, I'm out. I'm obligated to go to this shindig tonight, although I'm not happy about braving the weather.

Have a safe night everyone.

I may be quoting it wrong but I do recall a past president contemplating the meaning of is.

791 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:14:29pm

re: #785 Gus 802

I don't hate corporations. I just believe in balance. Frankly the corporate tax is too high comparatively speaking. They do great things but they also fail in many aspects. They're not the answer to everything in society.

Corporations are made up of people. Employees who depend on those companies to feed, house and clothe them and their families. Millions of them. Why should they have no say? They have every right to campaign for what is best for them and those millions of folks, staying in business profitably and keeping those folks gainfully employed. Corporations do not exist without the workforce of human beings they employ.

792 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:15:10pm

Statement just released:

Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO) just released a statement detailing an incident today in he says an anti-reform protestor spat on him as Cleaver entered the Capitol. The man who allegedly spat on the three-term incumbent Democrat was later arrested Capitol by police, Cleaver's office said.

Statement here

793 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:15:11pm

re: #779 brookly red

well now you touched a nerve... OK I will go along with single payer if we take all the funding from existing programs... no problemo bring it on!

I'm not sure what you mean my "all the money" and "existing programs." But anyway, I am sure that there is enough money out there in those sorts of program, really unnecessary, make work, make nice programs that could be defunded. Will some people take a hit. Well sure. So what?

I'm not suggesting that we force anyone to take any sort of coverage, and I am not suggesting that we stop anyone from paying all they want and all they can for some private insurance... but I am suggesting that we extend, offer, make available Medicaid to all those who want to go that route.

794 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:15:18pm

re: #786 Walter L. Newton

No again with the let's not look at the possibilities. So, we just go along with the status quo, we don't try to make a real effort to change anything. I hope you're happy with that?

No, not happy with that, Walter, but, again with the reality thing. Wishing feeds no one.

795 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:16:14pm

re: #792 Stanley Sea

That is sad. Reverend Cleaver is a good man.

796 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:16:19pm

re: #783 Walter L. Newton

You made the distinction between requiring and expanding - i gave the campaign rationale for requiring enrollment.

I couldn't decide during the Democratic primary between extensions of offered programmes and requirements to enroll.

Medicare Part E(veryone) was being kicked around within the progressive democratic caucus - the bluedog dems would never have voted for it if it even if it was the stated Presidential policy.

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid, is generally the best policy, unfortunately the best policy was never on the table. Exspansion to everyone is pretty much moot until this system is atleast bedded in.

797 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:16:21pm

re: #784 SixDegrees

Sounds good. They were hidden in PACs anyway. We'll just have to wait and see what happens this year and in 2012.

798 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:16:29pm

re: #788 Lateralis

Because Medicaid does not work from a cost stand point. They force physicians to take reimbursement rates well below what it cost for the procedures. In turn the cost is shifted to private insurance carriers.

That can be changed, couldn't it?

799 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:16:30pm

re: #781 HoosierHoops

Can you believe it? The only time Kansas was a head was 2-0.. Period..
Ali just drained the shots.. Ice cold...WOW.. This is great this year

I had Kansas, Syracuse, Villanova and Kentucky in my final four. This ain't workin out so hot.

Know why I love the NCAA's? It reminds me of the high school tournament I grew up with in Indiana. There, once every fifty years or so, arises a Milan to win it all. When a small school wins a Regional it is every bit as satisfying as winning it all. Maybe better. David and Goliath and all that.

800 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:16:54pm

re: #791 CapeCoddah

Corporations are made up of people. Employees who depend on those companies to feed, house and clothe them and their families. Millions of them. Why should they have no say? They have every right to campaign for what is best for them and those millions of folks, staying in business profitably and keeping those folks gainfully employed. Corporations do not exist without the workforce of human beings they employ.

I know of several corporations who treat their people so well the employees recently voted to decertify their unions.

Those bastards!

801 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:16:56pm

re: #787 bratwurst

I am all about Fat Bottomed Girls!

Finally a meeting of the minds!

Back It Up


- Beenie Man
802 SixDegrees  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:17:25pm

re: #777 Killgore Trout

Interesting. What prompted the experiment? I've been dabbling with a little simple cheese making. I'm looking forward to experimenting with some more complex cheeses.

I just really, really like brown butter. It adds a lot more flavor than ordinary butter. The problem is, the flavor is caused by the milk solids in the butter frying in the butter's fat, and there's not a whole lot of those solids in butter, so there's a limit on flavor - not to mention gobs of saturated fat.

The solution was to add milk solids - in the form of non-fat powdered milk - to the butter after most of the water had been simmered off. You get huge volumes of the solids, which can be strained out through cheesecloth and kept separate and used alone for flavoring, without all the fat - which can also be kept, of course.

I threw some of each on green beans tonight, and it rocked.

803 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:17:27pm

re: #785 Gus 802

I don't hate corporations. I just believe in balance. Frankly the corporate tax is too high comparatively speaking. They do great things but they also fail in many aspects. They're not the answer to everything in society.

Quite a few people seem to have boundless faith in and love for corporations. Taibbi gets it.

The peasant mentality lives on in America.

actual rich people can’t ever be the target. It’s a classic peasant mentality: going into fits of groveling and bowing whenever the master’s carriage rides by, then fuming against the Turks in Crimea or the Jews in the Pale or whoever after spending fifteen hard hours in the fields. You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and taking your shit. Whatever the master does, you’re on board. When you get frisky, he sticks a big cross in the middle of your village, and you spend the rest of your life praying to it with big googly eyes. Or he puts out newspapers full of innuendo about this or that faraway group and you immediately salute and rush off to join the hate squad. A good peasant is loyal, simpleminded, and full of misdirected anger. And that’s what we’ve got now, a lot of misdirected anger searching around for a non-target to mis-punish… can’t be mad at AIG, can’t be mad at Citi or Goldman Sachs. The real villains have to be the anti-AIG protesters! After all, those people earned those bonuses! If ever there was a textbook case of peasant thinking, it’s struggling middle-class Americans burned up in defense of taxpayer-funded bonuses to millionaires. It’s really weird stuff.
804 limewash  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:17:55pm

re: #788 Lateralis

Is Medicare Cost Effective?
[Link: www.hopkinsmedicine.org...]

Medicare and doctors:
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

"At the beginning of each year, providers decided whether they will do business with Medicare. In other words, they choose whether or not to accept public insurance like Medicare or Medicaid. Almost all of them choose to do so, because providing health services to Medicare patients is actually a very profitable business (Medicaid patients, less so). But you can go here for a list of "participating" physicians. And for all the talk of underpayment, these providers don't participate because the law says they have to. It doesn't. They can refuse to participate in Medicare just as they can refuse to participate in Aetna. But by and large, they don't refuse, because it's good business to work with Medicare."

805 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:18:00pm

re: #796 wozzablog

You made the distinction between requiring and expanding - i gave the campaign rationale for requiring enrollment.

I couldn't decide during the Democratic primary between extensions of offered programmes and requirements to enroll.

Medicare Part E(veryone) was being kicked around within the progressive democratic caucus - the bluedog dems would never have voted for it if it even if it was the stated Presidential policy.

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid, is generally the best policy, unfortunately the best policy was never on the table. Exspansion to everyone is pretty much moot until this system is atleast bedded in.

Expansion to every? Do you mean mandatory for everyone? Is that what you best policy suggestion encompasses?

806 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:18:34pm

re: #788 Lateralis

Because Medicaid does not work from a cost stand point. They force physicians to take reimbursement rates well below what it cost for the procedures. In turn the cost is shifted to private insurance carriers.

If this goes into effect, you are gonna see those docs who stay go cash/ fee only. Refuse insurance. LOTS of that happening here in Mass, because they cannot survive on the cuts implemented. THAT is a fact. Now, we will all have "Insurance" but, no one will take it. They have every right to do that. What then?

807 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:19:46pm

re: #794 CapeCoddah

No, not happy with that, Walter, but, again with the reality thing. Wishing feeds no one.

I never used the term "wishing." And I am not talking about "food" I don't think. Nothing to see here...

808 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:20:13pm

re: #806 CapeCoddah

If this goes into effect, you are gonna see those docs who stay go cash/ fee only. Refuse insurance. LOTS of that happening here in Mass, because they cannot survive on the cuts implemented. THAT is a fact. Now, we will all have "Insurance" but, no one will take it. They have every right to do that. What then?

I heard recently there are several hospitals suing the state of Mass over lack of payments. True?

809 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:20:22pm

re: #806 CapeCoddah

If this goes into effect, you are gonna see those docs who stay go cash/ fee only. Refuse insurance. LOTS of that happening here in Mass, because they cannot survive on the cuts implemented. THAT is a fact. Now, we will all have "Insurance" but, no one will take it. They have every right to do that. What then?

Reform the payment structure so it makes sense.

810 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:21:34pm

re: #808 Racer X

I heard recently there are several hospitals suing the state of Mass over lack of payments. True?

Absolutely true, along with proposed rationing by our legless governor.

811 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:22:09pm

As someone from a country with single payer universal care, I have to say our system failed my maternal grandfather, supported my paternal grandfather, extended the life of my maternal grandmother, consoled my paternal grandmother, and gave my mother many extra years and eased her pain when she most needed it.

The country hasn't gone bankrupt, in fact it is one of the most prosperous in the world, none of my freedoms have been compromised and I know when it is time for me to see Death and Binky in person, the system will do everything it can to make me comfortable and at ease.

The big bad socialist medical system, really isn't scary.

812 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:22:24pm

re: #809 Walter L. Newton

Reform the payment structure so it makes sense.

That will not happen either.

813 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:22:28pm

re: #803 iceweasel

Exactly. Don't blame AIG, Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs, Citi, etc. for the financial meltdown. Instead blame it all on Barney Frank, select Democrats, and so on. Then when it's time to bring back regulations that can prevent that. Fight against those regulations and speak as though one is a part of that elitist class of financial executives some of which "are doing God's work."

I also see it as a plantation mentality.

814 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:23:14pm

re: #798 Walter L. Newton

That can be changed, couldn't it?

Sure. More taxes to fund it so the reimbursement rate is higher. In fact, instead of this health care bill why don't they just increase taxes to cover the 20 - 40 million not covered and require risk pools in each state. However, I still think the reality of it is that the changes do not address the fact that most health care spend is in the last years and months of life.

815 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:23:18pm

re: #792 Stanley Sea

Statement just released:

Statement here

This is petty of me, but now I hope the bill passes just because that spitter is against it.

816 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:23:21pm

re: #799 The Shadow Do

I had Kansas, Syracuse, Villanova and Kentucky in my final four. This ain't workin out so hot.

Know why I love the NCAA's? It reminds me of the high school tournament I grew up with in Indiana. There, once every fifty years or so, arises a Milan to win it all. When a small school wins a Regional it is every bit as satisfying as winning it all. Maybe better. David and Goliath and all that.

Awesome! Great post!
I played ball in school..To beat a bigger stronger faster team once in your life is life changing.. The Nor Iowa team must be in the clouds tonight!

817 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:23:37pm

re: #801 Bagua


Funny how something like this has a way of bringing men of diverse opinions together! Sir Mix-A-Lot was truly wise.

818 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:23:42pm

re: #806 CapeCoddah

If this goes into effect, you are gonna see those docs who stay go cash/ fee only. Refuse insurance. LOTS of that happening here in Mass, because they cannot survive on the cuts implemented. THAT is a fact. Now, we will all have "Insurance" but, no one will take it. They have every right to do that. What then?

well it is coming, but it can't stand & that is the folly... if they had gone about this the right way they could have come up with a plan (like in Mass.) that would work, but they had to get greedy & corrupt... they can pass it but they can't keep it cause it is just plain illegal.

819 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:23:45pm

re: #808 Racer X

I heard recently there are several hospitals suing the state of Mass over lack of payments. True?

Shhh... Look, Unicorns!

820 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:23:54pm

re: #800 Racer X

I know of several corporations who treat their people so well the employees recently voted to decertify their unions.

Those bastards!

I suspect you will also find, anecdotally speaking of course, companies that treat their workers like shit but know it is an employer's market out there.

821 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:24:05pm

re: #805 Walter L. Newton

Expanding the option to enroll in medicaid to everyone is what i thought you were arguing for.

I was putting the case given for requirement to enroll in either medicaid or medicare - requirement being the current policy to enroll in any available applicable programme.

I don't particularly have an opinion as what is best under the presently hypothetical choice between requiring enrollment of all without insurance into medicaid/medicare or the requirement of all without insurance to join.

822 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:24:22pm

re: #802 SixDegrees

I just really, really like brown butter. It adds a lot more flavor than ordinary butter. The problem is, the flavor is caused by the milk solids in the butter frying in the butter's fat, and there's not a whole lot of those solids in butter, so there's a limit on flavor - not to mention gobs of saturated fat.

The solution was to add milk solids - in the form of non-fat powdered milk - to the butter after most of the water had been simmered off. You get huge volumes of the solids, which can be strained out through cheesecloth and kept separate and used alone for flavoring, without all the fat - which can also be kept, of course.

I threw some of each on green beans tonight, and it rocked.

What a fantastic idea!

823 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:24:23pm

re: #810 CapeCoddah

Absolutely true, along with proposed rationing by our legless governor.

Interesting.

Massachusetts health program, model for Obama’s reform, strains state budget

In 2006, the state of Massachusetts passed a sweeping overhaul of the state’s health-care system. The system, which influenced the Obama administration’s plans for national reform, has since faced unexpected and unchecked growth in costs, both to the government and individuals, forcing the government to cut benefits and raise taxes. Now analysts say that without significant policy changes, the program’s long-term viability is in doubt.

824 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:25:47pm

re: #802 SixDegrees

I just really, really like brown butter. It adds a lot more flavor than ordinary butter. The problem is, the flavor is caused by the milk solids in the butter frying in the butter's fat, and there's not a whole lot of those solids in butter, so there's a limit on flavor - not to mention gobs of saturated fat.

The solution was to add milk solids - in the form of non-fat powdered milk - to the butter after most of the water had been simmered off. You get huge volumes of the solids, which can be strained out through cheesecloth and kept separate and used alone for flavoring, without all the fat - which can also be kept, of course.

I threw some of each on green beans tonight, and it rocked.

Would you stop talking about it, I had to suffer through store bought pizza tonight, and my jealously meter just pegged.

825 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:25:48pm
826 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:25:56pm

re: #811 b_sharp

As someone from a country with single payer universal care, I have to say our system failed my maternal grandfather, supported my paternal grandfather, extended the life of my maternal grandmother, consoled my paternal grandmother, and gave my mother many extra years and eased her pain when she most needed it.

The country hasn't gone bankrupt, in fact it is one of the most prosperous in the world, none of my freedoms have been compromised and I know when it is time for me to see Death and Binky in person, the system will do everything it can to make me comfortable and at ease.

The big bad socialist medical system, really isn't scary.

I don't think you can compare the bureaucracy that will ensue with socialized medicine in a country the size of the US compared to smaller socialized countries.

827 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:26:25pm

re: #823 Racer X

From that article which was from Reason magazine by the way:

Others say budgetary concerns have been blown out of proportion. A November 2009 article in the New England Journal of Medicine, for example, notes that the cost to the state’s general fund has not been unmanageable.

828 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:26:53pm

re: #820 b_sharp

I suspect you will also find, anecdotally speaking of course, companies that treat their workers like shit but know it is an employer's market out there.

Absolutely!

But the free market also course corrects. Those corporations who treat their people like shit usually don't succeed. The big companies that have been around a while usually treat their people well.

829 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:27:07pm

re: #820 b_sharp

Anecdotaly speaking, of course.

830 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:27:41pm

re: #825 CapeCoddah

6 hospitals sue Massachusetts

oooops.

831 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:28:12pm

re: #812 CapeCoddah

re: #809 Walter L. Newton

Reform the payment structure so it makes sense.

That will not happen either.

It certainly won't if you don't try.

832 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:28:50pm

re: #818 brookly red

well it is coming, but it can't stand & that is the folly... if they had gone about this the right way they could have come up with a plan (like in Mass.) that would work, but they had to get greedy & corrupt... they can pass it but they can't keep it cause it is just plain illegal.

It is NOT working here at all... it is bankrupting us at warp speed, even with federal subsidies, the hole is 22 mil so far, THIS YEAR. Rationing has been proposed, rates have skyrocketed EVERY year and hospitals are going into the black hole of debt. It is an utter failure, and noone wants to see that. Those are the hard, cold FACTS.

833 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:29:05pm

re: #828 Racer X

Those corporations who treat their people like shit usually don't succeed.

Is that the Wal-Mart way?

834 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:29:13pm

re: #816 HoosierHoops

Awesome! Great post!
I played ball in school..To beat a bigger stronger faster team once in your life is life changing.. The Nor Iowa team must be in the clouds tonight!

I'm fer em!

835 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:29:47pm

re: #825 CapeCoddah

6 hospitals sue Massachusetts

Sadly, we will no doubt see more evil medical corporations suing the government to obtain their illicit profits.

836 blueraven  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:29:53pm

re: #791 CapeCoddah

Corporations are made up of people. Employees who depend on those companies to feed, house and clothe them and their families. Millions of them. Why should they have no say? They have every right to campaign for what is best for them and those millions of folks, staying in business profitably and keeping those folks gainfully employed. Corporations do not exist without the workforce of human beings they employ.

Wow. "I owe my soull to the company store"
Yes and the people who make up corporations are individuals.

The corporation does not own their voices.

837 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:30:18pm

re: #832 CapeCoddah

It is NOT working here at all... it is bankrupting us at warp speed, even with federal subsidies, the hole is 22 mil so far, THIS YEAR. Rationing has been proposed, rates have skyrocketed EVERY year and hospitals are going into the black hole of debt. It is an utter failure, and noone wants to see that. Those are the hard, cold FACTS.

I know that, I just threw it out there as red meat for the yapping curs...

838 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:31:01pm

re: #837 brookly red

I know that, I just threw it out there as red meat for the yapping curs...

Yapping curs... that's nice... thanks...

839 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:31:10pm

re: #828 Racer X

Absolutely!

But the free market also course corrects. Those corporations who treat their people like shit usually don't succeed. The big companies that have been around a while usually treat their people well.

Just so. That is how it goes.

840 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:31:22pm

re: #817 bratwurst

Funny how something like this has a way of bringing men of diverse opinions together! Sir Mix-A-Lot was truly wise.

It's a beautiful thing...

Whine Up

- Kat DeLuna & Elephant Man
-

841 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:31:29pm

re: #833 bratwurst

Is that the Wal-Mart way?

Yes.

Walmart treats their truck drivers like kings. They consistently vote no to unions. Drives the Teamsters nuts.

842 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:31:43pm

re: #836 blueraven

Wow. "I owe my soull to the company store"
Yes and the people who make up corporations are individuals.

The corporation does not own their voices.

no the voices are controlled by the union...

843 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:32:37pm

OK, forget the bike thing.

Too dangerous.

844 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:32:54pm

re: #834 The Shadow Do

I'm fer em!

I just hooked up the new HP Elitebook Laptop to the Samsung big screen..
I can stream any game I want wireless from CBSsportsline.com to the TV..
I can do picture in picture also..Technology Rocks!

845 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:32:56pm

BBIAB... don't solve health care reform until I get back.

846 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:33:30pm

re: #825 CapeCoddah

6 hospitals sue Massachusetts

There are budgetary problems all across the board during this recession and it is also affecting the health care budget there. Even that article indicates it as the reason:

Six community hospitals, squeezed by the economic downturn and the Massachusetts budget crunch, are set to file a lawsuit in Suffolk Superior Court this morning seeking millions of dollars from the state for unpaid health care services.

Same article also states:

Porten said the 212-bed hospital, where 71 percent of patients are covered by Medicaid or other public insurance, has been forced to lay off 88 employees over the past year.

Citing Holyoke’s high poverty rate, he said: “There’s not a lot of other places people here can go for care. Long term, we have to get a solution to our funding.’’

They can and must find a solution. Sacrificing the lives of those people who have nowhere else to go is not an option.

847 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:33:57pm

re: #841 Racer X

Yes.

Walmart treats their truck drivers like kings. They consistently vote no to unions. Drives the Teamsters nuts.

I don't think Coors has a union either. At least they didn't used to.

848 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:34:21pm

We don't have the money. Right. Yeah, I forgot it's more important to use that money in "nation building."

849 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:35:08pm

re: #838 Walter L. Newton

Yapping curs... that's nice... thanks...

hey I have to listen to all kinds of insults (in fact I guarantee -3 on this post ) so what is the big deal?

850 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:35:08pm

re: #837 brookly red

I know that, I just threw it out there as red meat for the yapping curs...

LOL!!

851 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:35:24pm

re: #848 Gus 802

We don't have the money. Right. Yeah, I forgot it's more important to use that money in "nation building."

Hey, if you put that money into your own nation, it's socialism! Redistributing the wealth!

..Wait, what?

852 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:35:51pm

re: #826 Lateralis

I don't think you can compare the bureaucracy that will ensue with socialized medicine in a country the size of the US compared to smaller socialized countries.

Yes, of course, it is so much more difficult to govern 300mil as opposed to 30mil ///

By that logic, it should be a slam dunk to get it to work in smaller groups. Perhaps the country should be broken into smaller chunks, with their own local control and responsibility, and they could be known as, oh say, Provinces, or States?

Sorry for the dripping sarcasm, but that argument is just another 'no true Scotsman' fallacy and should be retired, quickly.

853 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:36:03pm

re: #836 blueraven

Wow. "I owe my soull to the company store"
Yes and the people who make up corporations are individuals.

The corporation does not own their voices.

And when those corporations are taxed out of business... Where do those employees go, may I ask?

854 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:36:39pm

re: #850 CapeCoddah

LOL!!

/ I see your rodent & raise you a clam, LOL~!

855 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:36:55pm

re: #844 HoosierHoops

I just hooked up the new HP Elitebook Laptop to the Samsung big screen..
I can stream any game I want wireless from CBSsportsline.com to the TV..
I can do picture in picture also..Technology Rocks!

Holy shit! Hoops heaven!

If only I weren't such an electronic luddite, I could go there too...
(I'm old school for a reason...I'm old, dammit)

856 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:37:47pm

re: #853 CapeCoddah

And when those corporations are taxed out of business... Where do those employees go, may I ask?

They run for congress?

857 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:38:06pm

re: #851 iceweasel

Hey, if you put that money into your own nation, it's socialism! Redistributing the wealth!

..Wait, what?

Well that's different!!111!!!! THe future of humanity is at steak!11!!

/

858 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:38:33pm

re: #840 Bagua

The fact we can see eye-to-eye on the issue of female posteriors gives me hope that we can reach consensus elsewhere!

859 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:38:55pm

re: #853 CapeCoddah

And when those corporations are taxed out of business... Where do those employees go, may I ask?

Walmart? (too easy)

860 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:38:56pm

re: #853 CapeCoddah

And when those corporations are taxed out of business... Where do those employees go, may I ask?

uhh, into the welfare state?

861 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:39:01pm

re: #846 Gus 802

They can and must find a solution. Sacrificing the lives of those people who have nowhere else to go is not an option.

The hospitals are not getting paid, or are getting paid much less than they need to survive, because this debacle has BANKRUPTED US!! What don't you get? The problem is you don't WANT to get it.

862 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:39:37pm

re: #858 bratwurst

For the record, Swass was the only Mix album worth a damn.

863 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:39:41pm

re: #853 CapeCoddah

And when those corporations are taxed out of business... Where do those employees go, may I ask?

Duh, China. Everyone knows that.

864 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:40:00pm

re: #853 CapeCoddah

Canard.

865 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:40:15pm

re: #863 Bagua

it is funny when you mention that, business wise, the only major communist state in the world is kicking our asses >

866 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:40:24pm

re: #861 CapeCoddah

The hospitals are not getting paid, or are getting paid much less than they need to survive, because this debacle has BANKRUPTED US!! What don't you get? The problem is you don't WANT to get it.

I do get it. My point is simply that we're wasting our money in other places and health care is far more important.

867 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:40:30pm

re: #860 brookly red

George W Bush - 8 More Years.

868 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:40:57pm

Life is about balance.

Bad employers get balanced out by the good ones. Government must be balanced out by private corporations. When things get out of balance it gets messy.

869 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:41:11pm

re: #861 CapeCoddah

The hospitals are not getting paid, or are getting paid much less than they need to survive, because this debacle has BANKRUPTED US!! What don't you get? The problem is you don't WANT to get it.

/ NO, no, no, no la la la hope & change I can't hear you... la la la

870 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:41:20pm

Watch in 480p

A Nearby Starburst Galaxy

871 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:41:34pm

re: #864 wozzablog

Canard.

Canary.

872 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:41:40pm

re: #868 Racer X

That's why in an ideal world, it'd be easy for unions to come in and out of use as the balance shifted.

Unfortunately, we're a long ways from ideal >>

873 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:41:55pm

re: #862 windsagio

For the record, Swass was the only Mix album worth a damn.

Hey, I used to live in the Seattle area and ate many a burger at Dick's. The posse is indeed on Broadway!

874 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:42:27pm

re: #869 brookly red

/ NO, no, no, no la la la hope & change I can't hear you... la la la

I see reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits.

875 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:42:38pm

re: #864 wozzablog

Canard.

Reality. Glad to know you think everyone employed by a large corporation is disposable.

876 jvic  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:42:39pm

re: #313 jvic

re: #731 wozzablog

I still feel for the *homeless* GOP voters who don't like the complete sell out to the uber nonsensical Right - but any sympathy i had the the GOP i had as an entity is pretty much gone.

Although I've never actually registered GOP, I consider myself one of those homeless voters. Put me in the 'Obama is Bush on steroids' camp. Afaic the difference is in degree, not in kind.

I thought Sotomayor was a mediocre choice for SCOTUS--but when I watched the conniptions on the Right, I wondered where those people were during the Miers nomination. (I know where some of them were: when I protested on conservative sites, they treated me like cannon fodder who should do what he was told.)

I wonder where the Right's fiscal responsibility was while Bush did not veto a single spending bill from the Republican Congress.

I would be pleased to see Obamacare defeated--but I wonder where the Right's moral indignation was in 2004:

An internal investigation by the Department of Health and Human Services confirms that the top Medicare official threatened to fire the program's chief actuary if he told Congress that drug benefits would probably cost much more than the White House acknowledged.

Those Bush conservatives...so doggone compassionate...

877 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:42:51pm

re: #855 The Shadow Do

Holy shit! Hoops heaven!

If only I weren't such an electronic luddite, I could go there too...
(I'm old school for a reason...I'm old, dammit)

I got an HP 6930 laptop running the Hi Def big screen TV...I'm posting with a dual core dell d620 and I have a Lenovo T61 logged into the corporate network via VPN across the room..I'm a tech nut...System Admin

878 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:43:15pm

re: #865 windsagio

it is funny when you mention that, business wise, the only major communist state in the world is kicking our asses >

Who is this our paleface?

879 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:43:33pm

re: #833 bratwurst

Is that the Wal-Mart way?

I'd say so.

When it comes to commiserating with the downtrodden store worker, or saving a pile of money, the money will win. To hell with the worker.

Market worshippers (oops, did I just make it a religion? My bad), don't seem to have a good grasp of human psychology, humans do not unfailingly do what is best for them, they do what they believe, or have been convinced, is best for them. The two are not necessarily the same thing.

880 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:43:47pm

re: #868 Racer X

Life is about balance.

Bad employers get balanced out by the good ones. Government must be balanced out by private corporations. When things get out of balance it gets messy.

Dangerous.

881 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:43:52pm

Some awesome amounts of butthurt on this thread, I must say, but it's been pretty civil, for the most part.

882 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:44:01pm

re: #873 bratwurst

My sister and I (we both bought it orignially) still jointly own the original cassette with its poster/fanclub signup intact!

also:

Me and Kid sensation, in home away from home/
in the black benz limo with the cellular phone...


Oh, the early '90s.
883 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:44:33pm

re: #867 wozzablog

George W Bush - 8 More Years.

WTF? is that the best you can do? on you f'n knees! the statute of limitations on Bush is over and you ain't got shit to say. O owns this whole shit storm, have a nice day.

884 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:44:33pm

Canary

885 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:44:36pm

re: #881 iceweasel

well you know, there's really no reason to gloat :P

886 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:44:37pm

re: #806 CapeCoddah

If this goes into effect, you are gonna see those docs who stay go cash/ fee only. Refuse insurance. LOTS of that happening here in Mass, because they cannot survive on the cuts implemented. THAT is a fact. Now, we will all have "Insurance" but, no one will take it. They have every right to do that. What then?

$800 million for new community health centers that pay VA rates for drugs and supplies, thanks to Bernie Sanders.

887 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:44:55pm

re: #881 iceweasel

Some awesome amounts of butthurt on this thread, I must say, but it's been pretty civil, for the most part.


[Video]

Yeah. I'm surprised teh Mooslims haven't been blamed yet.

888 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:45:06pm

re: #838 Walter L. Newton

Yapping curs... that's nice... thanks...

Some of those yapping cures have nice sharp pointy teeth, don't they Walter?

889 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:45:06pm

re: #882 windsagio

err *late 80s

890 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:45:20pm

re: #874 Gus 802

I see reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits.

He got it dead on. No pun intended.

891 Randall Gross  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:45:33pm

The other Canary

892 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:45:34pm

re: #887 Gus 802

What's the impact of this bill in the War on Terror?!

893 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:46:10pm

re: #874 Gus 802

I see reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits.

why do I need to know how to read... congresspeople don't have to.

894 blueraven  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:46:17pm

re: #842 brookly red

I don't think the unions should be able to speak louder than their individual members either. But you seem to think corporations should have that power.

re: #853 CapeCoddah

I didn't realize the SCOTUS decision was about taxes. I thought it was about campaign contributions. Nice attempt at deflection though.

895 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:46:17pm

re: #892 windsagio

What's the impact of this bill in the War on Terror?!

Feck health care!1!! We have to use that money to fight Ishlamic Extremism!11!!

/

896 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:46:22pm

I blame Bush.

897 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:46:42pm

re: #889 windsagio

err *late 80s

If you can remember the 20th century, you weren't really there! ;)

Saw a lot of gigs at Starry Nights in PDX back in the day too.

898 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:47:03pm

re: #892 windsagio

What's the impact of this bill in the War on Terror?!

Has anyone considered yet how passing HCR might embolden our enemies? All this talk about the sick makes us look weak to them!1!

899 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:47:33pm

re: #893 brookly red

Its always fascinating how the conservative mindset is almost always couched with this hyperbolic cynicism about politicians.

900 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:47:52pm

re: #892 windsagio

What's the impact of this bill in the War on Terror?!

Healthier recruits for the armed forces.

901 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:49:07pm

Evening folks! I see the Mass health care system is being discussed. The failure in the health care system going on in Mass is not just financial...

In Massachusetts, Universal Coverage Strains Care

AMHERST, Mass. — Once they discover that she is Dr. Kate, the supplicants line up to approach at dinner parties and ballet recitals. Surely, they suggest to Dr. Katherine J. Atkinson, a family physician here, she might find a way to move them up her lengthy waiting list for new patients.

Those fortunate enough to make it soon learn they face another long wait: Dr. Atkinson’s next opening for a physical is not until early May — of 2009.

In pockets of the United States, rural and urban, a confluence of market and medical forces has been widening the gap between the supply of primary care physicians and the demand for their services. Modest pay, medical school debt, an aging population and the prevalence of chronic disease have each played a role.

Now in Massachusetts, in an unintended consequence of universal coverage, the imbalance is being exacerbated by the state’s new law requiring residents to have health insurance.

Since last year, when the landmark law took effect, about 340,000 of Massachusetts’ estimated 600,000 uninsured have gained coverage. Many are now searching for doctors and scheduling appointments for long-deferred care.

Here in western Massachusetts, Dr. Atkinson’s bustling 3,000-patient practice, which was closed to new patients for several years, has taken on 50 newcomers since she hired a part-time nurse practitioner in November. About a third were newly insured, Dr. Atkinson said. Just north of here in Athol, the doctors at North Quabbin Family Physicians are now seeing four to six new patients a day, up from one or two a year ago.

[snip]

902 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:49:20pm

re: #875 CapeCoddah

Hmmm.

You see, now, right - uh-huh..... if companys are not being allowed to fail because of their own failures at the moment due to the catastrophic effect they would have on employment, etc - why would they be allowed to fail if taxes set by the government that is saving companys all over the place allow them to fail then?


Also - the only companies that would be put out of business by increases in taxes are already operating paper thin margins - and if it was not a tax bill it would be an unpaid invoice or late orders.
If a company can be put out of business by a late invoice - should it not fail under market conditions?.

Taxes are just another invoice - it's the invoice that keeps the streets paved so they can move goods, the schools funded so the employees walking in are not dunces, funds the firedepartment if their business caught alight............

903 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:49:54pm

re: #898 iceweasel

Has anyone considered yet how passing HCR might embolden our enemies? All this talk about the sick makes us look weak to them!1!


It will only show our enemies that we weak and unhealthy!!!!11!! They will use it against us!1!11

Are you with me? You're either with us or against us!

904 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:49:54pm

re: #897 bratwurst

The man you wanna talk to is WUB, he can go on for hours about the NW music scene. I'm more just an appreciative fan-from-a-distance.

What years were oyu in Seattle if I may ask? (Was in HS when Grunge really hit, personally >>)

905 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:50:16pm

Somne hospitals have found a formula for re: #877 HoosierHoops

I got an HP 6930 laptop running the Hi Def big screen TV...I'm posting with a dual core dell d620 and I have a Lenovo T61 logged into the corporate network via VPN across the room..I'm a tech nut...System Admin

You clearly have the ability to set up the ultimate 'man room'.

906 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:50:42pm

re: #826 Lateralis

Except when it advances a conservative talking point.

907 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:51:02pm

re: #899 windsagio

Its always fascinating how the conservative mindset is almost always couched with this hyperbolic cynicism about politicians.

What conservative mindset is that ? I am a registered Democrat form New York Liberal Fucking City...

908 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:51:15pm

re: #894 blueraven

I don't think the unions should be able to speak louder than their individual members either. But you seem to think corporations should have that power.

re: #853 CapeCoddah

I didn't realize the SCOTUS decision was about taxes. I thought it was about campaign contributions. Nice attempt at deflection though.

It is about the right of corporations to support candidates who will keep the tax rates in check somewhat. Nice dodge yourself. Donks biggest problem is never looking past the first layer of any issue, they are like crows spotting something shiny.... something that turns out to have nasty consequences after one picks it up. But, all you see is the shiny. It is unfortunate, but one cannot fix stupid.

909 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:51:34pm

re: #901 NJDhockeyfan

MA still like their health care system 68-27

[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

910 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:51:42pm

re: #907 brookly red

I said 'conservative' not 'Republican'.

And seriously, I only buy crack from people I trust :P

911 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:51:56pm

re: #898 iceweasel

Has anyone considered yet how passing HCR might embolden our enemies? All this talk about the sick makes us look weak to them!1!

I still say the Netherlands have the best health care in the world.. I wish we would adopt their ideas..

912 Lateralis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:52:19pm

re: #898 iceweasel

Has anyone considered yet how passing HCR might embolden our enemies? All this talk about the sick makes us look weak to them!1!

No but continued economic deterioration does make us look weak and Health Care reform will only make that decline worse. Watch the markets on Monday.

913 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:52:45pm

re: #910 windsagio

I said 'conservative' not 'Republican'.

And seriously, I only buy crack from people I trust :P

grow a pair and post the quote...

914 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:52:51pm

re: #841 Racer X

Yes.

Walmart treats their truck drivers like kings. They consistently vote no to unions. Drives the Teamsters nuts.

I can vouch for this.
They do.
They are the highest paid non-management workers in the company.

915 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:52:55pm

re: #903 Gus 802

It will only show our enemies that we weak and unhealthy!!!11!! They will use it against us!1!11

Are you with me? You're either with us or against us!

YES! Fortunately, the brave little corporations are looking out for us:

Readers here have reported the same thing.

I work for a company that employs 10’s of thousands of people—mostly in red and purple states. I didn’t work the last few days of this past week—so I’m just learning about a memo they sent us that essentially tells us we could lose our jobs if HCR passes on Sunday—so we should call our representatives and tell them to vote “no.”

I'm so glad we have their help on the WoT. Where might we be without Blackwater?

916 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:52:57pm

re: #911 HoosierHoops

They also have *gasp* reasonably priced higher education out there >>

It pains me to even say it, but if the European model is socialism, that's something I'm becoming more and more interested in.

917 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:53:10pm

re: #909 Conservative Moonbat

RAINOS - Real Americans In Name Only

918 SpaceJesus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:53:17pm

*tears now worthless bracket into pieces*

919 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:53:43pm

re: #904 windsagio

The man you wanna talk to is WUB, he can go on for hours about the NW music scene. I'm more just an appreciative fan-from-a-distance.

What years were oyu in Seattle if I may ask? (Was in HS when Grunge really hit, personally >>)

Well I was at Evergreen when Nirvana played in my friend's dorm room in 1988 and 1989. I personally witnessed Chris (aka Krist) Novoselic getting hit up for beer money there. I am not kidding!

920 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:53:46pm

re: #913 brookly red

lolwut?

*Totally confused*

what quote?

921 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:53:59pm

re: #907 brookly red

What conservative mindset is that ? I am a registered Democrat form New York Liberal Fucking City...

The kind of 'nyc democrat' that claims gaybashing in the West Vilage is being done....by liberal dems who live in manhattan.

Yeah.

922 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:54:10pm

re: #905 The Shadow Do

Somne hospitals have found a formula for

You clearly have the ability to set up the ultimate 'man room'.

Yes brother...I'm into high tech.. It's my life..
Kind regards

923 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:54:14pm

re: #915 iceweasel

I'm so glad we have their help on the WoT. Where might we be without Blackwater?

Let us sing a song of love and victory for Xe Services LLC!

I think I'm going to cry.

/

924 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:54:42pm

re: #919 bratwurst

OK that's freaking awesome!

That being said, 'lol Evergreen'.

(no offense to your alma mater, but... yeah I can't help myself. Its not the school you went to with success in mind :P)

925 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:54:50pm

re: #921 iceweasel

The kind of 'nyc democrat' that claims gaybashing in the West Vilage is being done...by liberal dems who live in manhattan.

Yeah.

Gaze for life.com

926 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:55:01pm

re: #909 Conservative Moonbat

MA still like their health care system 68-27

[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

Well of course they do, but we are not supposed to mention that.
The narrative and all...

927 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:55:05pm

re: #921 iceweasel

The kind of 'nyc democrat' that claims gaybashing in the West Vilage is being done...by liberal dems who live in manhattan.

Yeah.

Really?

Wow.

928 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:55:24pm

re: #839 The Shadow Do

Just so. That is how it goes.

(cough)bullshit(cough)

Some of those corps that have been around a while were forced to treat their employees well because their employees unionized. Even if that unionization has passed it's useful time, there would be some corps willing to grovel at the foot of their bean counters and go back to the good old days if it suddenly disappeared.

There have also been companies that treated their workers well that went under. Determining success and failure is more complicated than simply how happy the employees are.

The unemployment rate has more to do with who works for a company than how they get treated, and the success of a company is more determined by how many are willing to purchase their goods or services based on price than based on happy employees.

929 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:55:31pm

re: #925 brookly red

To quote somebody or other, 'who pissed in your cheerios all of a sudden'?

930 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:56:06pm

re: #924 windsagio

OK that's freaking awesome!

That being said, 'lol Evergreen'.

(no offense to your alma mater, but... yeah I can't help myself. Its not the school you went to with success in mind :P)

NOW you tell me!

931 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:56:12pm

Corporations are all evil.

We need bigger government - they will solve all of our problems.

Sorry folks - that has been tried. It failed.

Next?

932 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:56:14pm

re: #921 iceweasel

The kind of 'nyc democrat' that claims gaybashing in the West Vilage is being done...by liberal dems who live in manhattan.

Yeah.

Are you saying it's unimaginable? Some of the most homophobic people I know are liberals.

933 darthstar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:56:22pm

Hey everyone...I'm pleasantly exhausted after a day of ski patrolling. Gorgeous day...but warm. Oh how I hate the first day of spring in the Sierras. Why can't winter last until May?

934 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:56:39pm

re: #918 SpaceJesus

*tears now worthless bracket into pieces*

So many brackets went KABOOM today.

My 10 year old nephew to my sister to pick NO Iowa over Kansas and she was all "what! are you NUTS!".

935 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:56:41pm

re: #925 brookly red

Gaze for life.com

Fortunately, I have their link for you.

936 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:56:58pm

re: #929 windsagio

To quote somebody or other, 'who pissed in your cheerios all of a sudden'?

oh as soon as your queen shows up you get jiggy? LOL

937 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:57:11pm

re: #931 Racer X

dude if yer gonna take that logic, you have to admit that the last 3 decades haven't been exactly kind to the concept of giving business free reign either >>

938 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:57:42pm

re: #936 brookly red

My only queen is WUB.

Ice is more of a rival.

939 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:57:43pm

re: #933 darthstar

Hey everyone...I'm pleasantly exhausted after a day of ski patrolling. Gorgeous day...but warm. Oh how I hate the first day of spring in the Sierras. Why can't winter last until May?

Global Warming™

940 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:58:00pm

re: #938 windsagio

My only queen is WUB.

Ice is more of a rival.

Heh.

941 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:58:04pm

re: #938 windsagio

Oh and I wish Walter was my King.


/one can dream!

942 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:58:14pm

re: #854 brookly red

/ I see your rodent Rodan & raise you a clam Deuce, LOL~!

FTFY

943 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:58:14pm

re: #931 Racer X

I could have got that from a bumper sticker.

944 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:58:29pm

re: #897 bratwurst

If you can remember the 20th century, you weren't really there! ;)

That was the 60s. Paul Katner, IIRC.

945 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:58:47pm

re: #927 Gus 802

Really?

Wow.

Sure did. That was an epic moment. When I objected to that ridiculous statement, brookly red informed me he 'didn't like outside agitators'.

That's when I came out of the closet as a native new yorker who lives in manhattan.
Brookly red has loathed me ever since. lol.

946 blueraven  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:59:02pm

re: #908 CapeCoddah

It is about the right of corporations to support candidates who will keep the tax rates in check somewhat. Nice dodge yourself. Donks biggest problem is never looking past the first layer of any issue, they are like crows spotting something shiny... something that turns out to have nasty consequences after one picks it up. But, all you see is the shiny. It is unfortunate, but one cannot fix stupid.

Sure, ok...so it is all about taxes. Nothing in there about setting minimum wage, or perhaps zoning laws. Maybe taking someones land to build another much needed walmart and on and on. No its all about keeping taxes low. I agree on one point. You cant fix stupid.

947 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:59:04pm

re: #937 windsagio

dude if yer gonna take that logic, you have to admit that the last 3 decades haven't been exactly kind to the concept of giving business free reign either >>

Exactly!

Like I said earlier - life is about balance. The government fucked up. They let shit get out of balance. Greedy corporations took advantage of that. It is the government's job to keep things in check - not to take them over entirely.

Right?

948 darthstar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 5:59:53pm
949 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:00:08pm

re: #947 Racer X

Your premise that its all the government's fault is kinda iffy, but I totally agree with the idea that the ideal state is a balance.

The US has always been substantially on the freemarket part of the scale tho >>

950 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:00:30pm

re: #945 iceweasel

Sure did. That was an epic moment. When I objected to that ridiculous statement, brookly red informed me he 'didn't like outside agitators'.

That's when I came out of the closet as a native new yorker who lives in manhattan.
Brookly red has loathed me ever since. lol.

Gaze...

951 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:00:55pm

re: #943 wozzablog

I could have got that from a bumper sticker.

Pretend I'm slow. OK don't pretend. What?

952 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:01:01pm

re: #825 CapeCoddah

6 hospitals sue Massachusetts

Try not to inject your bias in between the lines, there really isn't room. The recession has been cruel to most.

Most complex systems only work stably within the narrow bounds of specific conditions, which is why they need to be continually tweaked. The survival of the status quo is a figment.

953 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:01:10pm

re: #902 wozzablog

Hmmm.

You see, now, right - uh-huh... if companys are not being allowed to fail because of their own failures at the moment due to the catastrophic effect they would have on employment, etc - why would they be allowed to fail if taxes set by the government that is saving companys all over the place allow them to fail then?

Also - the only companies that would be put out of business by increases in taxes are already operating paper thin margins - and if it was not a tax bill it would be an unpaid invoice or late orders.
If a company can be put out of business by a late invoice - should it not fail under market conditions?.

Taxes are just another invoice - it's the invoice that keeps the streets paved so they can move goods, the schools funded so the employees walking in are not dunces, funds the firedepartment if their business caught alight...

Again, dont bother to look past the first layer.
Schools funded, huh, ok.
What would you say to a school administrator, who works 9 months a year (with an extra 30 days paid vacation thrown in for a total of 7 months a year on the job), being paid say $159K a year, and demanding $10, 300 for a small town to "Buy Back" 15 personal days? Think that's a good deal, or would you call that piggishness on the part of the union/administrator? That's roughly $686 per day. THAT is where the money goes.
Do you think that is fair?

954 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:01:25pm

re: #916 windsagio

They also have *gasp* reasonably priced higher education out there >>

It pains me to even say it, but if the European model is socialism, that's something I'm becoming more and more interested in.

You know they have great ideas.. Everybody pays for HC in the Netherlands..
It doesn't matter if you work at McDonalds or a CEO you all pay 125 Euros a month for HC.. So you don't have a job? It comes out of your unemployment check..125 Euro's period..Everybody pays the price...For an extra 25 euros a month you can get the Gold plan...Everybody pays..period..
They say that won't work in America.. The Lifespan of a Dutch person is 81+ years...Longer than any American or European..
They are doing something right.. Let's study the system and take the best

955 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:01:26pm

re: #950 brookly red

Isn't that (after the previous post) like gaze for infinity +1?

956 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:01:50pm

re: #950 brookly red

Gaze...

So you keep sayin...
and we know why.

957 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:02:27pm

Well this thread is quickly turning to shit.

BBL.

958 SpaceJesus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:02:38pm

re: #934 webevintage

So many brackets went KABOOM today.

My 10 year old nephew to my sister to pick NO Iowa over Kansas and she was all "what! are you NUTS!".

i almost filled out a comedy option bracket while i was in vegas over st patty's. i really should have done that.

959 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:03:07pm

re: #853 CapeCoddah

And when those corporations are taxed out of business... Where do those employees go, may I ask?

Taxed out of business? Is that any more a problem than being forced out of business by larger, more powerful competitors. It certainly is less likely.

960 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:03:34pm

re: #955 windsagio

Isn't that (after the previous post) like gaze for infinity +1?

It's more like after you promise to ignore me you keep coming back, gazeish.

961 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:03:54pm

re: #883 brookly red

Sorry, it was a little obtuse.

George W Bush was the Cmdr In Chief of the Corporate Welfare State.

Endless giveaways.

Thats to whom the companies that go out of business should turn, it was upon your answer in the post you replied to me replying to.

And no - it was not the best i could do. It was pith.

962 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:03:56pm

re: #960 brookly red

don't woryr I'll never ignore you! (hugs)

963 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:03:58pm

re: #950 brookly red

Gaze...

Image: gaze.jpg

964 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:04:52pm

re: #962 windsagio

don't woryr I'll never ignore you! (hugs)

thanks, I think ...

965 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:05:24pm

re: #963 Jimmah

[Link: i238.photobucket.com...]

Why it's Michelle Bachman! The reverent "queen" of Health Care Reform Denialists™.

/

966 jvic  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:05:32pm

re: #956 iceweasel

So you keep sayin...
and we know why.

She does have crazy eyes, doesn't she?

One shouldn't jump to conclusions. Not everybody with crazy eyes is crazy.

In this particular case, the evidence is conclusive.

967 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:05:43pm

man, listening to all these old mix-a-lot songs, they really wouldn't fly these days.

"Page one says open, page 2 says fill, page 3 says cock, page 4 says KILL!"

968 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:05:45pm

re: #929 windsagio

To quote somebody or other, 'who pissed in your cheerios all of a sudden'?

Was it not you "Weeping for the decline of our culture" a few nights ago? That is REALLY classy.

969 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:05:58pm

re: #962 windsagio

don't woryr I'll never ignore you! (hugs)

You are nothing if not magnanimous, sir!

970 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:06:06pm

re: #928 b_sharp

(cough)bullshit(cough)

Some of those corps that have been around a while were forced to treat their employees well because their employees unionized. Even if that unionization has passed it's useful time, there would be some corps willing to grovel at the foot of their bean counters and go back to the good old days if it suddenly disappeared.

There have also been companies that treated their workers well that went under. Determining success and failure is more complicated than simply how happy the employees are.

The unemployment rate has more to do with who works for a company than how they get treated, and the success of a company is more determined by how many are willing to purchase their goods or services based on price than based on happy employees.

I would never argue against the value of unions. Obviously they bring pressure to improve to the marketplace. Even just the threat of them helps (eg Coors).

Demonizing corporations is just dumb however. People will buy goods and services based on their value - what could be more obvious. But to get there those corporations will have to continue to capitalize my and others 401K's, provide health insurance, etc.

Bean counters vs employee development...same old, same old

971 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:06:35pm

re: #968 CapeCoddah

What can I say?

I'm a freakin' class act!

972 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:06:36pm

Hey, I just noticed the DVR taped on of my favorite Dr. Who ep.
Blink.
I have a girl crush on Sally Sparrow...I kind of wish she had not moved on to being nominated for Oscar's and winning BAFTA's and just stayed on as his companion.
(after Donna of course)

973 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:06:43pm

oh here come the tag team... what a fuckin joke. Yeah OK off with my head yada , yada, yada,...


what a fucking lame existence.

974 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:07:01pm

Hey, guess what! I changed my mind! You know how people will argue and flame and jibe and swear and name-call, and then (once they get their licks in) say that no one's going to change their mind? Well, it's not true! I changed my mind! Somebody hit upon just the right combination of profanity & abuse, and I couldn't help myself. I changed my mind! How about that! Nobody say anything, I want to savor this moment....Aw, it's gone now...how about that...
/

975 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:07:02pm

re: #966 jvic

She does have crazy eyes, doesn't she?

One shouldn't jump to conclusions. Not everybody with crazy eyes is crazy.

In this particular case, the evidence is conclusive.

Oh yeah. Hey, I left you some LGF links on Bachmann as well the other night. Hope it helps out with your friend. Also, loved your William James post there.

976 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:07:34pm

re: #861 CapeCoddah

The hospitals are not getting paid, or are getting paid much less than they need to survive, because this debacle has BANKRUPTED US!! What don't you get? The problem is you don't WANT to get it.

I'm making some assumptions here, so I trust you will correct me if I cross a line or don't make sense, but...

Mass is being bankrupted by a 22 million dollar dept? Huh?

977 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:07:37pm

re: #973 brookly red

all playing aside for a moment, you just came on too damn hard. Relax a bit, have some fun. We all know you have some good things to say, when you're not pisst.

978 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:07:46pm

re: #952 b_sharp

Try not to inject your bias in between the lines, there really isn't room. The recession has been cruel to most.

Most complex systems only work stably within the narrow bounds of specific conditions, which is why they need to be continually tweaked. The survival of the status quo is a figment.

The recession is about 18-20 months old. This law is 4 years old. Nice try, It is an utter and complete failure, on every count.

979 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:07:59pm

Scroll is your potential friend.
;)

980 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:08:30pm

Also, I'm waiting until the revolution is complete, then the purges can start!!!

981 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:08:38pm

Universal coverage? First, look at the disaster in Massachusetts

To much fanfare from both right and left in 2006, Massachusetts became the first state in the nation to require all residents to buy health insurance. A new state health insurance clearinghouse was created, with taxpayers subsidizing those who couldn’t afford to buy coverage. Then Gov. Mitt Romney, a Republican, promised that “every uninsured citizen in Massachusetts will soon have affordable health insurance.” Yet just two years later, Romney’s much-heralded “solution” — touted by many as the model for a national program — has become an embarrassing flop.

Just a year after the universal coverage law passed, The New York Times reported, state insurers were already jacking up rates to twice the national average. According to Dr. Paul Hsieh, a physician and founding member of Freedom and Individual Rights in Medicine, 43 mandatory benefits — including those that many people did not want or need, such as invitro fertilization — raised the costs of coverage for Massachusetts residents by as much as 56 percent, depending upon an individual’s income status. So much for “affordable” health care.

Small businesses with more than 10 employees were required to provide health insurance or pay an extra fee to subsidize uninsured low-income residents, yet the overall costs of the program increased more than $400 million — 85 percent higher than original projections. To make up the difference, payments to health care providers were slashed, so many doctors and dentists in Massachusetts began refusing to take on new patients. In the state with the highest physician/patient ratio in the nation, some people now have to wait more than a year for a simple physical exam.

The irony is that Massachusetts officials reluctantly admitted that, despite increased enrollment, the state is still far from universal coverage — the original goal of the landmark law. To make matters worse, Massachusetts is grappling with a multibillion-dollar deficit while Democratic Gov. Deval Patrick desperately tries to slow down those still-spiraling health care costs, which he said last week were “not sustainable.”

If this sounds just like Canadian-style socialized medicine, that’s because it is. Massachusetts residents now pay more for less access to health care, yet their state still has an uninsured problem!

982 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:08:42pm

re: #953 CapeCoddah

Deflection - if i hadn't mentioned education you would have complained about potholes.

Sales taxes paid by regular people - regular people, the ones earning under $60,000, also pay those bloated salaries.

983 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:08:52pm

re: #977 windsagio

all playing aside for a moment, you just came on too damn hard. Relax a bit, have some fun. We all know you have some good things to say, when you're not pisst.

awwww, too hard....

984 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:09:03pm

re: #979 Varek Raith

Scroll is FOR THE WEAK!!!!1!.
;)

FiXt.

985 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:09:38pm

How much of the problem in the US economy is due to jobs being shopped out to China and India?

Are the low, low prices available from Wal-Mart, et al, exacerbating unemployment?

986 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:10:29pm

re: #959 b_sharp

Taxed out of business? Is that any more a problem than being forced out of business by larger, more powerful competitors. It certainly is less likely.

At least the employees have somewhere to go... the bigger company.

987 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:10:35pm

re: #983 brookly red

heh I'm obviously having a good time tonight. If you come in with a chip on the shoulder, and then lean forward to yell, you can't be surprised when the chip falls off.

(I expect some downdings for the hideously strained metaphor)

988 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:10:40pm

And re: #980 windsagio

Also, I'm waiting until the revolution is complete, then the purges can start!!!

John Boehner has said America is so weak as a country that if the HC legislation passes it will destroy us.
What happened to American Exceptionalism?

989 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:10:53pm

re: #951 Racer X

I just thought we were above that level of discussion. I was wrong.

990 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:11:29pm

re: #987 windsagio

heh I'm obviously having a good time tonight. If you come in with a chip on the shoulder, and then lean forward to yell, you can't be surprised when the chip falls off.

(I expect some downdings for the hideously strained metaphor)

I hope you brought enough chips for the whole class! Make mine salt & vinegar.

991 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:11:31pm

re: #988 webevintage

Under the bus with the uninsured working man ;-)

992 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:11:33pm

re: #989 wozzablog

lol wherever would you get that idea? >>

993 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:12:01pm

re: #985 b_sharp

How much of the problem in the US economy is due to jobs being shopped out to China and India?

Are the low, low prices available from Wal-Mart, et al, exacerbating unemployment?

no, lots of manufacturing jobs are coming to the US (Toyota, Mercedes etc. ) just in non-union states...

994 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:12:15pm

re: #992 windsagio

heh. yup, my bad/

995 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:12:21pm

re: #990 bratwurst

I think they're wood chips :p

Also!

"All the way to Bremerton, where the fat is at. The girl's a Bremelo!"

man I love that man.

996 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:12:41pm

re: #976 b_sharp

I'm making some assumptions here, so I trust you will correct me if I cross a line or don't make sense, but...

Mass is being bankrupted by a 22 million dollar dept? Huh?

That 22 mil hole is for less than 90 days... not to mention the other debt on top of it, and the next 9 months. LOOK>>>> a shiny thing!

997 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:12:42pm

re: #985 b_sharp

How much of the problem in the US economy is due to jobs being shopped out to China and India?

Are the low, low prices available from Wal-Mart, et al, exacerbating unemployment?

It seems the 3 dollar an hour manufacturing jobs have dried up in the USA..
And no union is going to save that job from going to China...

998 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:13:01pm

re: #881 iceweasel

Some awesome amounts of butthurt on this thread, I must say, but it's been pretty civil, for the most part.


[Video]

OK, tell me, what the heck is butthurt?

In English, please, I'm old and set in my ways, new fangled words scare me.

999 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:13:06pm

re: #987 windsagio

heh I'm obviously having a good time tonight. If you come in with a chip on the shoulder, and then lean forward to yell, you can't be surprised when the chip falls off.

(I expect some downdings for the hideously strained metaphor)

I don't have a chip but you are starting to give me one :)

1000 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:13:07pm

re: #963 Jimmah

My eyes! My eyes!
Why did I click on that?
*stupid*
(waves, anyway!)

1001 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:13:34pm

re: #999 brookly red

You should trust my psychic powers :p

1002 jvic  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:14:30pm

re: #975 iceweasel

Oh yeah. Hey, I left you some LGF links on Bachmann as well the other night. Hope it helps out with your friend. Also, loved your William James post there.

Saw them and linked them, thanks Ice.

I might have been just a leetle undiplomatic about folks on your side of the issues, so excuse me for withholding the URL... ;-)

1003 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:14:31pm

re: #899 windsagio

Its always fascinating how the conservative mindset is almost always couched with this hyperbolic cynicism about politicians.

But they love the equally trustworthy corporations.

1004 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:15:31pm

re: #993 brookly red

no, lots of manufacturing jobs are coming to the US (Toyota, Mercedes etc. ) just in non-union states...

No duh. The UAW still can't wrap its head around the need for productivity.

1005 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:15:44pm

re: #998 b_sharp

OK, tell me, what the heck is butthurt?

In English, please, I'm old and set in my ways, new fangled words scare me.

A silly word for a silly emotion.

Butthurt:
An inappropriately strong negative emotional response from a perceived personal insult. Characterized by strong feelings of shame. Frequently associated with a cessation of communication and overt hostility towards the "aggressor."

As in: butthurt conservative:

A conservative that feels victimized when something doesn't go their way. Often comes with the feeling that anything that doesn't reflect their world view has some unfair bias against them.
1006 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:15:50pm

re: #981 NJDhockeyfan

DING!! Reality.

1007 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:16:07pm

re: #998 b_sharp

OK, tell me, what the heck is butthurt?

In English, please, I'm old and set in my ways, new fangled words scare me.

This is butthurt:

1008 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:16:08pm

re: #998 b_sharp

OK, tell me, what the heck is butthurt?

Tune over to Fox News Channel late tomorrow night and all will become clear!

1009 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:16:18pm

Oklahoma legislature bans sharia law

OKLAHOMA CITY (March 15, 2010) – State lawmakers have voted to allow Oklahoma voters to prevent judicial rulings in foreign countries from impacting local court decisions through approval of the "Save Our State" constitutional amendment./blockquote>
...
The proposed amendment would prohibit all Oklahoma courts from considering the legal precepts of other nations or cultures, even in cases of first impression.
1010 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:16:44pm

re: #907 brookly red

What conservative mindset is that ? I am a registered Democrat form New York Liberal Fucking City...

So you vote middle of the road but talk right. OK.

1011 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:17:40pm

re: #1002 jvic

Saw them and linked them, thanks Ice.

I might have been just a leetle undiplomatic about folks on your side of the issues, so excuse me for withholding the URL... ;-)

Oh hey, no problem. I updinged a post you made upthread in which you said you were opposed to HCR because it was cogent, thoughtful, and well-written. I like talking to folks who have different opinions than I who are like that!

1012 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:17:40pm

re: #981 NJDhockeyfan

but yet it still has nearly a 75% popularity rating

1013 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:17:46pm

re: #982 wozzablog

Deflection - if i hadn't mentioned education you would have complained about potholes.

Sales taxes paid by regular people - regular people, the ones earning under $60,000, also pay those bloated salaries.

The kids in the school I referred to there, are required to pay $250 a year to ride the school bus.
We are pretty good with potholes here, with the exception of Boston. No deflection at all.. fact. No shiny things.

1014 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:17:49pm

re: #1004 Dark_Falcon

No duh. The UAW still can't wrap its head around the need for productivity.

and now that it is owned by the government I don't see much hope.

1015 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:18:26pm

re: #1008 bratwurst

Tune over to Fox News Channel late tomorrow night and all will become clear!

haha-- brilliant. ;)

1016 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:18:47pm

re: #972 webevintage

Amazing lady, love her episodes.

1017 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:18:50pm

re: #998 b_sharp

A really hard wedgie. Pants legs up to your neck.
That kind of feeling.

1018 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:19:08pm

re: #998 b_sharp

OK, tell me, what the heck is butthurt?

In English, please, I'm old and set in my ways, new fangled words scare me.

It's derived from the feeling of just having had ones ass kicked I believe.

1019 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:20:01pm

re: #1014 brookly red

and now that it is owned by the government I don't see much hope.

Nor do I.

1020 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:20:10pm

re: #1018 Conservative Moonbat

It's derived from the feeling of just having had ones ass kicked I believe.

Yeah. Inappropriate feelings of rage, hostility, and shame over someone having spanked you in an argument.

1021 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:20:13pm

re: #1010 b_sharp

So you vote middle of the road but talk right. OK.

actually I did vote pretty left, now I am ahem, butthurt... I guess I will have to do a Regan.

1022 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:20:24pm

re: #1011 iceweasel

Hi Ice!
I figure if my monthly HC cost go down ..I'm for it
If they go up.. I'm against it
Except for maybe paying for Walters HC.. He is all into the free shit these days..
/

1023 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:20:43pm

re: #916 windsagio

They also have *gasp* reasonably priced higher education out there >>

It pains me to even say it, but if the European model is socialism, that's something I'm becoming more and more interested in.

It's not so much socialism as it is pragmatism. Nobody wants to go way over to the left where Statism rules and going to the far right is just as bad.

1024 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:21:49pm

re: #1005 iceweasel

Interesting - and antagonistic obviously. Which is dumber, the user or the usee?

Better use of language is universally respected. Or not.

1025 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:22:24pm

re: #1021 brookly red

Increase the national debt?........

/

1026 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:22:32pm

re: #1022 HoosierHoops

Hi Ice!
I figure if my monthly HC cost go down ..I'm for it
If they go up.. I'm against it
Except for maybe paying for Walters HC.. He is all into the free shit these days..
/

Hey handsome! That dog of deserves spoiling! Hope you're well. (Have an email to send you actually-- check in a few)

1027 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:23:11pm

re: #1025 wozzablog

Increase the national debt?...

/

well we do need more prisons...

1028 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:23:40pm

Socialism!?! Tory leader David Cameron says tories to follow Obamas bank tax plan:

David Cameron has said the Conservatives would impose a tax on banks to repay the billions used to bail out financial institutions, claiming it is "fair and necessary".

The opposition leader has not disclosed details of the proposal, but said such a levy was vital to repay taxpayers and protect them from future collapses.

US President Barack Obama has already put forward plans for a similar scheme and Sweden has introduced a levy. However, City minister Lord Myners said the announcement was "ill thought-out" and could force bankers to leave Britain.

Mr Cameron admitted his announcement may not prove popular in the City, adding: "We had the biggest bank bail-out in the world. We can’t just carry on as if nothing happened.

“In America, President Obama has said he will get taxpayers back every cent they put in. Why should it be any different here?

“So I can announce today that a Conservative government will introduce a new bank levy to pay back taxpayers for the support they gave and to protect them in the future.

“No, it won’t be popular in every part of the City. But I believe it’s fair and it’s necessary.”

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

1029 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:24:04pm

re: #1024 The Shadow Do

Interesting - and antagonistic obviously. Which is dumber, the user or the usee?

Better use of language is universally respected. Or not.

Hardly antagonistic. It's a silly word, intentionally so. But one of the interesting meta-features of the word 'butthurt' is that its mere use tends to cause the silly reactions it describes.

1030 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:24:04pm

re: #1027 brookly red

For debtors of healthcare companies?.........

1031 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:24:16pm

re: #1024 The Shadow Do

Interesting - and antagonistic obviously. Which is dumber, the user or the usee?

Better use of language is universally respected. Or not.

The sociopathic mind excels at trying to make the victim look like the abuser, and gets a real thrill out of it. I know, I grew up a victim of it. I can see and smell it a mile off.

1032 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:25:04pm

???

1033 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:25:17pm

re: #1028 Jimmah

"Call Me Dave" has been playing a blinder.

I can't stand the guy - or most of his policies - but he is a freaking left wing democrat by comparison to the heads of the GOP.

1034 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:25:25pm

re: #1032 Varek Raith

???

You noticed that too?

1035 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:25:34pm

re: #1032 Varek Raith

???

Quadruple ????

dang

1036 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:25:38pm

re: #1029 iceweasel

Hardly antagonistic. It's a silly word, intentionally so. But one of the interesting meta-features of the word 'butthurt' is that its mere use tends to cause the silly reactions it describes.

Clever insult. See, that is a better use of language! I approve.

1037 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:25:41pm

Sarkozy's party braces for a wipeout:[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

1038 brookly red  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:25:54pm

well that was fun, but well you know... LOL

1039 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:26:45pm

re: #931 Racer X

Corporations are all evil.

We need bigger government - they will solve all of our problems.

Sorry folks - that has been tried. It failed.

Next?

Again with the all or nothing attitude.

How about a balance between the two? If the system as it is is failing, try something different. If the free market results in more pain than gain, then let the government supply an option. If the government is screwing up and studies show private companies can do better while holding services equally high, then let them.

1040 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:26:52pm

re: #1029 iceweasel

There's the metameaning of it too, of course.

I remember people used to really flip over the term, lo 1 month ago :P

1041 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:27:23pm

Cousins is a ninja Wildcat!

1042 jvic  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:27:33pm

re: #1011 iceweasel

Oh hey, no problem. I updinged a post you made upthread in which you said you were opposed to HCR because it was cogent, thoughtful, and well-written. I like talking to folks who have different opinions than I who are like that!

I haven't examined HCR in the depth that you have.

But my Romneycare premium just went up about 15%.

And I don't have confidence in Obama to implement something of this complexity. If he was a successful two-term governor whose state is riding out the recession well--or if we were in a V-shaped recovery with unemployment dropping near 7%--, my attitude might be different.

1043 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:27:33pm

Exactly who is abusive?[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

1044 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:27:38pm

re: #1034 Gus 802

You noticed that too?

1045 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:27:46pm

re: #933 darthstar

Hey everyone...I'm pleasantly exhausted after a day of ski patrolling. Gorgeous day...but warm. Oh how I hate the first day of spring in the Sierras. Why can't winter last until May?

You want cold? I'll send you a bottle of Canadian prairie winter air.

1046 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:28:15pm

re: #1009 Conservative Moonbat

Oklahoma legislature bans sharia law

I guess it is good that OK is taking care of that?
/

1047 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:28:20pm

re: #1026 iceweasel

Hey handsome! That dog of deserves spoiling! Hope you're well. (Have an email to send you actually-- check in a few)

I look forward to talking to you and jimmy after he gets in town and settled down.. You guys are not going to believe where I am going shortly..
Love you guys!

1048 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:28:31pm

re: #1028 Jimmah

Socialism!?! Tory leader David Cameron says tories to follow Obamas bank tax plan:

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

My concern is that the banks will simply get their money back via higher interest rates and fees.

1049 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:28:31pm

re: #936 brookly red

oh as soon as your queen shows up you get jiggy? LOL

Are you being a jerk for a reason?

1050 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:28:46pm

re: #1043 prairiefire

Just communist interlopers trying to make working folks look bad.

/

1051 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:29:30pm

re: #1048 Dark_Falcon

Thats what they exist for doing.

1052 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:29:48pm

re: #948 darthstar

Ah...I see the Tea Party has gone mellow in their message.
///...to infinity.

And beyond?

1053 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:30:05pm

re: #1044 Varek Raith

[Video]

Wow, that's a lot of "indeeds."

1054 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:30:25pm

re: #1053 Gus 802

Wow, that's a lot of "indeeds."

...indeed.

1055 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:30:53pm

re: #1054 Varek Raith

INDEEED

1057 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:31:42pm

re: #950 brookly red

Gaze...

You live in NY? OMG! The horrors!

Come to Canada. The prairies. No people. Lotsa trees, water, aminals. Real air.

1058 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:32:26pm

re: #1031 CapeCoddah

The sociopathic mind excels at trying to make the victim look like the abuser, and gets a real thrill out of it. I know, I grew up a victim of it. I can see and smell it a mile off.

See, this would be an example of an antagonistic comment.

1059 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:33:05pm

re: #1047 HoosierHoops

I look forward to talking to you and jimmy after he gets in town and settled down.. You guys are not going to believe where I am going shortly..
Love you guys!

Love you back Hoops! email sent, let me know.

1060 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:33:13pm

re: #1042 jvic

I haven't examined HCR in the depth that you have.

But my Romneycare premium just went up about 15%.

And I don't have confidence in Obama to implement something of this complexity. If he was a successful two-term governor whose state is riding out the recession well--or if we were in a V-shaped recovery with unemployment dropping near 7%--, my attitude might be different.

It's pretty much the bill that came out of Baccus's finance (?) committee. Obama hasn't had a huge hand in it. The bill spent so long long in the subcommittee, btw, because Baccus was trying to make it bipartisan and get committee members Grassley and Snowe to support it. The final result is that the bill really is a lot more bipartisan than it's been given credit for.

1061 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:33:16pm

re: #1048 Dark_Falcon

My concern is that the banks will simply get their money back via higher interest rates and fees.

You would prefer the markets to crash?

Consider that most of our collective suffering from the last crash was from the market decline, not bank losses.

1062 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:33:41pm

re: #1057 b_sharp

Don't even need to go to Canada for that. Come to the west coast (outside LA), or as we like to call it, 'the livable part of the country'.

1063 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:34:27pm

re: #1034 Gus 802

You noticed that too?

Yeah, that a Douche-blog meme.

1064 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:34:35pm

re: #1058 iceweasel

See, this would be an example of an antagonistic comment.

Just my opinion, Ma'am. I have see more antagonism out of you than anyone here combined.
"Then the classic it's not my fault" response.
You need help.

1065 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:34:41pm

re: #1062 windsagio

Don't even need to go to Canada for that. Come to the west coast (outside LA), or as we like to call it, 'the livable part of the country'.

Canada is closer than California for me.
;)

1066 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:34:52pm

re: #1042 jvic

I haven't examined HCR in the depth that you have.

But my Romneycare premium just went up about 15%.

That's nothing.
To keep the plan we had with my hubbys employer we would be paying 35% more.
We had to get one with a higher deductible instead with less coverage.

1067 sandbox  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:35:17pm

re: #1009 Conservative Moonbat

Re sharia law, I agree with the sentiment of preventing it in the US.

1068 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:35:39pm

re: #1059 iceweasel

Love you back Hoops! email sent, let me know.

And where is my little cuddle bunny Windsagio?

1069 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:35:47pm

re: #1056 Killgore Trout

Gashaw Tahir Fights Deforestation, Plants One Million Trees In Ethiopia


[Video]

I love that story. Planting a forest like that helps make the landscape look far better and it helps fight AGW at the same time.

1070 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:36:36pm

re: #1061 Bagua

You would prefer the markets to crash?

Consider that most of our collective suffering from the last crash was from the market decline, not bank losses.

No, I just don't like more of my money being nibbled away. It greatly annoys me.

1071 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:36:36pm

re: #1043 prairiefire

Exactly who is abusive?[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

"A lot of us have been saying for a long time that much of this, much of this is not about health care a all. And I think a lot of those people today demonstrated that this is not about health care... it is about trying to extend a basic fundamental right to people who are less powerful."

I'm still very allergic to language like that. This program may or may not bring about a highly desirable social good. But no way is it a right. Rights do not require the time and/or money of other citizens to be spent on one's behalf. Health care does.

1072 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:37:16pm

re: #1067 sandbox

Re sharia law, I agree with the sentiment of preventing it in the US.

But does a state really need to pass a law to do that? The way the law is worded it would also ban Christian law and the boyscout honor code from being considered in courts, btw.

1073 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:37:59pm

re: #1068 Walter L. Newton

And where is my little cuddle bunny Windsagio?

Kawaii!11!1

1074 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:38:06pm

re: #1064 CapeCoddah

Thanks for sharing.

1075 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:38:14pm

re: #953 CapeCoddah

Again, dont bother to look past the first layer.
Schools funded, huh, ok.
What would you say to a school administrator, who works 9 months a year (with an extra 30 days paid vacation thrown in for a total of 7 months a year on the job), being paid say $159K a year, and demanding $10, 300 for a small town to "Buy Back" 15 personal days? Think that's a good deal, or would you call that piggishness on the part of the union/administrator? That's roughly $686 per day. THAT is where the money goes.
Do you think that is fair?

It's OK for a corp CEO to bargain for 7 digit salaries but not for a member of a union to bargain for 6 digits? Why?

In the free market its all about how much you can get both parties to contract for.

1076 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:38:23pm

re: #1070 Dark_Falcon

The banks will have payed backmore to the government than was lent to them.

How they find ways to pay that interest has been left up to them.

The bailouts though - were unfortunately required.

1077 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:38:30pm

re: #1074 iceweasel

At your service.

1078 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:39:19pm

re: #1075 b_sharp

It's OK for a corp CEO to bargain for 7 digit salaries but not for a member of a union to bargain for 6 digits? Why?

In the free market its all about how much you can get both parties to contract for.

One comes out of taxpayers pockets, the other from profits. Big difference.

1079 GForce  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:39:20pm

Obama = Train Wreck

1080 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:39:31pm

re: #1070 Dark_Falcon

No, I just don't like more of my money being nibbled away. It greatly annoys me.

I have to agree. While it is not a great deal of money, I am PISSED I now am faced with the choice of giving Citibank $60 a year or damaging my credit rating by closing out a 20 year old credit card.

1081 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:39:56pm

re: #1079 GForce

Obama = Train Wreck

Varek = Vampire

1082 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:40:01pm

re: #1074 iceweasel

Well played Ice!

1083 sandbox  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:40:22pm

re: #1072 Conservative Moonbat

Then maybe the law is unnecessary. BTW one of the criteria for establishing if someone is a radical islamist is if that person advocates sharia law among the host country's Muslim population.

1084 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:40:49pm

re: #1071 The Sanity Inspector

Rights do not require the time and/or money of other citizens to be spent on one's behalf.

Are you in favor of scrapping jury trials and public defenders?

1085 Digital Display  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:41:03pm

re: #1059 iceweasel

Love you back Hoops! email sent, let me know.

It is my great pleasure to speak of you and Jimmah Sunday Morning..
Know this..During MTP I'll be composing a special prayer for you and Jimmah for the 10am prayer list...
I am very proud to be your friends here...

1086 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:41:35pm

re: #1082 Rightwingconspirator

Well played Ice!

Cheers, RWC! How's DL? Any better?

1087 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:41:47pm

re: #1068 Walter L. Newton

I'm here!

(cute image inserted)

You never shoulda told me that you can't stand the anime >>

1088 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:42:02pm

This is clever. The New York Times is giving some op-ed space to a wingnut on the eve of this historic health care reform vote. Doesn't he realize how stupid he looks...

In reality, if you strip out all the gimmicks and budgetary games and rework the calculus, a wholly different picture emerges: The health care reform legislation would raise, not lower, federal deficits, by $562 billion.

1089 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:42:05pm

re: #970 The Shadow Do

I would never argue against the value of unions. Obviously they bring pressure to improve to the marketplace. Even just the threat of them helps (eg Coors).

Demonizing corporations is just dumb however. People will buy goods and services based on their value - what could be more obvious. But to get there those corporations will have to continue to capitalize my and others 401K's, provide health insurance, etc.

Bean counters vs employee development...same old, same old

I'm not demonizing, I'm bringing up a counterpoint.

1090 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:42:30pm

re: #1086 iceweasel

Getting better but layed out on the couch just a few feet away. We did new avatars today just for fun. Both from my furnace photography.

1091 jvic  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:42:40pm

re: #1064 CapeCoddah

Just my opinion, Ma'am. I have see more antagonism out of you than anyone here combined.
"Then the classic it's not my fault" response.
You need help.

Beyond a general goodwill toward the nation and the world, I agree with Ice on damn little. Yet she has been the essence of courtesy to me.

Just my experience.

1092 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:43:12pm

re: #1078 CapeCoddah

Profits which are money paid to the company by consumers for goods and services.

Corporate money does not just appear from thin air.

Corporations who provide utillities and healthcare - goods that are not easily obtainable elsewhere are essentially paid by the public purse and are fleecing us in corporate compensation packages.

1093 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:44:09pm

The State is your Friend!

1094 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:44:21pm

re: #973 brookly red

oh here come the tag team... what a fuckin joke. Yeah OK off with my head yada , yada, yada,...

what a fucking lame existence.

Poor baby.

Can't get a good argument up so you whine about the number of people who disagree with you.

I hear they have drugs for that.

1095 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:44:21pm

re: #1090 Rightwingconspirator

We did new avatars today just for fun. Both from my furnace photography.

Sounds like hot stuff!

1096 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:44:37pm

Pseudo-objectivism.

1097 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:44:39pm

re: #1093 Bagua

So are big corporations!

1098 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:44:47pm

re: #1091 jvic

Beyond a general goodwill toward the nation and the world, I agree with Ice on damn little. Yet she has been the essence of courtesy to me.

Just my experience.

Well, that is just fine. I prefer not to look the other way when a chronically abusive person is about, whether I am a target or not.

1099 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:44:49pm

re: #1057 b_sharp

You live in NY? OMG! The horrors!

Come to Canada. The prairies. No people. Lotsa trees, water, aminals. Real air.

The Canadian is not an American--at least, not entirely, not yet.
--Alistair Horne, 1961

1100 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:44:58pm

re: #1093 Bagua

The State is your Friend!

No, it isn't....and neither are corporations.
;)

1101 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:45:05pm

The banks and corporations are enemies of the State!

1102 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:45:18pm

re: #1087 windsagio

I'm here!

(cute image inserted)

You never shoulda told me that you can't stand the anime >>

Well, we have a policy around here between my two step-critters and the rest of the family, we rotate watching each others"favorite" TV and movie stuff.

So... it was "Dollhouse" season one for them, LOST season six for my girlfriend and I... well, the "Dollhouse" season one boxed set is done... so now I have to watch "Death Note" next... at jizillion episodes, or what ever the count is up to now...

1103 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:45:37pm

re: #978 CapeCoddah

The recession is about 18-20 months old. This law is 4 years old. Nice try, It is an utter and complete failure, on every count.

Has the system been failing the whole time?

1104 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:45:44pm

re: #1098 CapeCoddah

Well, that is just fine. I prefer not to look the other way when a chronically abusive person is about, whether I am a target or not.

Ah, I get it. You're here to protect us.

1105 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:45:51pm

re: #1102 Walter L. Newton

Well, we have a policy around here between my two step-critters and the rest of the family, we rotate watching each others"favorite" TV and movie stuff.

So... it was "Dollhouse" season one for them, LOST season six for my girlfriend and I... well, the "Dollhouse" season one boxed set is done... so now I have to watch "Death Note" next... at jizillion episodes, or what ever the count is up to now...

Death Note's not so bad.

1106 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:45:56pm

re: #1101 Bagua

Only in the sense that they're enemies of the protelariat, and the protelariat is the state.

oh wait, I guess you're right.

/this isn't very clever, even as a 'joke'.

1107 keloyd  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:45:57pm

re: #1067 sandbox

Re sharia law, I agree with the sentiment of preventing it in the US.

You know how people on blogs rip on Texas, not without cause sometimes? Well, that's how we Texans rip on the Okeys.

I smell a rat with this Oklahoma law. The intended audience for this is the right wing and provincial member of the Okey public. There can't be many Oklahoma Muslims outside of its tiny college student communities. I lived there a few years and knew some Muslims pretty well at OSU back in the day. They even invited non-Muslims to visit their tiny mosque during Ramadan immediately following 9/11. The lamb chops, dates and yogurt were excellent. They aren't making any trouble. They certainly did not stick around in Oklahoma after graduation. This is less about Islam and more about country fried politician chest thumping, imho.

1108 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:46:18pm

re: #1085 HoosierHoops

It is my great pleasure to speak of you and Jimmah Sunday Morning..
Know this..During MTP I'll be composing a special prayer for you and Jimmah for the 10am prayer list...
I am very proud to be your friends here...

The same, Hoops! I'll always remember how you've been consistently kind to me here, especially back when there were very few libs.

As atheist lizards, we'd still appreciate good thoughts from folks during Jimmah's flight tomorrow, given the raised terror alert in the UK.

You're a great guy, Hoops. So are most people here. We'll always be grateful to the community here and to Charles, since we met here.

May those who love us, love us;
and those who don't love us,
may God turn their hearts;
and if He doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
so we'll know them by their limping

1109 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:46:25pm

re: #1105 Varek Raith

Death Note's not so bad.

Creepy though...

1110 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:46:39pm

re: #1101 Bagua

The banks and corporations are enemies of the State!

I am beginning to get the idea that al of your posts may not be TOTALLY sincere. I hope this was not the case when we were both praising large buttocks earlier.

1111 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:46:43pm

re: #1102 Walter L. Newton

lol, I feel for you.

I'm curious if you'll like that tho', since you seem to (no offense intended) like over the top writing and dialogue.

1112 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:47:07pm

re: #1079 GForce

Obama = Train Wreck

Maybe. We'll see tomorrow. If Obama gets his bill passed, then it will be a signal victory. I still think the Dems will get clunked in November, but they'll have gotten a key part of their agenda passed.

/Not said as an argument for or against the bill. Simply stated as analysis.

1113 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:47:21pm

re: #1111 windsagio

One of my dark secrets is that the way I keep from falling asleep at work is watching trash anime on grey market dvds at work >>

1114 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:47:25pm

re: #1084 publicityStunted

Are you in favor of scrapping jury trials and public defenders?

There's that, you're right. I was thinking more of free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

1115 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:47:27pm

re: #1083 sandbox

Then maybe the law is unnecessary. BTW one of the criteria for establishing if someone is a radical islamist is if that person advocates sharia law among the host country's Muslim population.

Well, this law wouldn't stop that anyway.

1116 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:48:01pm

re: #981 NJDhockeyfan

Universal coverage? First, look at the disaster in Massachusetts

It doesn't sound anything like Canada's health care system.

1117 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:48:10pm

re: #1111 windsagio

lol, I feel for you.

I'm curious if you'll like that tho', since you seem to (no offense intended) like over the top writing and dialogue.

He just watched all the Saw movies iirc.

1118 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:48:27pm

re: #1064 CapeCoddah

Just my opinion, Ma'am. I have see more antagonism out of you than anyone here combined.
"Then the classic it's not my fault" response.
You need help.

Folks, this projection was brought to you by IMAX sytems.

1119 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:48:38pm

re: #1092 wozzablog

Profits which are money paid to the company by consumers for goods and services.

Corporate money does not just appear from thin air.

Corporations who provide utillities and healthcare - goods that are not easily obtainable elsewhere are essentially paid by the public purse and are fleecing us in corporate compensation packages.

Well, then, just shut them down. What do we need them for anyway?
Corporations are in business to make a profit, no matter the product. They are under no obligation whatsoever to give away what they produce because we all need the product. Like it or not.
Donks fail to consider things like the cost of research, research equipment, the cost of trials, bringing new drugs to market, etc... We NEED that stuff, how DARE they make a profit after all they spent to bring them to us and improve our miserable lives!

1120 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:48:46pm

re: #1111 windsagio

lol, I feel for you.

I'm curious if you'll like that tho', since you seem to (no offense intended) like over the top writing and dialogue.

I don't know? I don't even know what it is about, nor have I seen a single minute of it. I know nothing.

1121 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:49:18pm

re: #1112 Dark_Falcon

I disagree as to how bad i believe the tonking will be - but the Dems will definitely not gain.

Already kicked around upthread with PT Barnum some adverts the Dems could use to stem loses.

1122 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:49:46pm

re: #1103 b_sharp

Has the system been failing the whole time?

Yes.

1123 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:49:50pm

re: #1098 CapeCoddah

Well, that is just fine. I prefer not to look the other way when a chronically abusive person is about, whether I am a target or not.

I've heard this objection before, but for the life of me I can't figure out how iceweasel is chronically abusive. Could you please elaborate on why you think she is? Because I do not see it.

1124 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:50:29pm

re: #1071 The Sanity Inspector

I can see your point, T.S.I. And I understand your wording, "allergic." I've been around many people with conservative viewpoints my whole life. I think there is a lot that conservatives can add to the debate.

1125 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:50:34pm

re: #1117 Stanley Sea

He just watched all the Saw movies iirc.

No... "Saw Saturday" just started last week... we are up to "Saw II" today... I have 4 of them here... will have to Netflix the other 2 when we get to "Saw V."

1126 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:50:58pm

re: #1104 Stanley Sea

Ah, I get it. You're here to protect us.

Nope, but I will speak my mind, just like you will.

1127 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:51:05pm

re: #1125 Walter L. Newton

No... "Saw Saturday" just started last week... we are up to "Saw II" today... I have 4 of them here... will have to Netflix the other 2 when we get to "Saw V."

See, I feel for you on that!

1128 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:51:11pm

re: #936 brookly red

oh as soon as your queen shows up you get jiggy? LOL

What a sly asshole you are, aren't you?

/I'd say keep the discussion focused on the topics at hand and not attacking other members, but that's apparently shot to hell for some around here...

1129 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:51:55pm

re: #1120 Walter L. Newton

That's why I"m curious, if you're willing keep us informed as you watch it.

I'd say its even odds you'll find it unbearable :p

1130 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:52:06pm

re: #1110 bratwurst

I am beginning to get the idea that al of your posts may not be TOTALLY sincere. I hope this was not the case when we were both praising large buttocks earlier.

Trust the Bagua, let him be your friend.

(But know he shuns the / yet loves the pun!)

1131 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:52:29pm

re: #1128 talon_262

its more that you only see the attacks when the other side does it.

1132 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:53:03pm

re: #1091 jvic

Beyond a general goodwill toward the nation and the world, I agree with Ice on damn little. Yet she has been the essence of courtesy to me.

Just my experience.

Thanks for your honest and clearly non partisan input, jvic. Appreciated.

1133 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:53:03pm

re: #1128 talon_262

specifically going back to the other day when Avanti was talking about what it was actually like in the good ol' days of LGF.

1134 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:53:03pm

re: #1129 windsagio

That's why I"m curious, if you're willing keep us informed as you watch it.

I'd say its even odds you'll find it unbearable :p

I will... and if I don't like it... I'll probably insult someone with my opinion about it.

1135 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:53:20pm

re: #1129 windsagio

That's why I"m curious, if you're willing keep us informed as you watch it.

I'd say its even odds you'll find it unbearable :p

It was alright until the last few episodes. Won't spoil it, though. I knew the outcome for sometime, it's just lame how it reached it.
;)

1136 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:53:44pm

re: #1124 prairiefire

I can see your point, T.S.I. And I understand your wording, "allergic." I've been around many people with conservative viewpoints my whole life. I think there is a lot that conservatives can add to the debate.

I appreciate you saying that.

1137 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:53:44pm

re: #1130 Bagua

I guess I knew deep down that some things are too serious to joke about!

1138 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:54:07pm
1139 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:54:22pm

re: #1095 bratwurst
I am such a pyro, totally caught up in the images of fire at work, at 1/8000th of a second. More like a silk dancer than what your eyes show. The new avatar was from a flame 6 feet tall.

1140 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:54:47pm

re: #986 CapeCoddah

At least the employees have somewhere to go... the bigger company.

I'm sorry, I've never heard of a company going under because of taxes, but I have taken part in more than one company going under because of a multinational moving into the area. Some did get jobs with the new company, lost their pensions and had to take lower wages and benefits, but most did not end up with the newer company.

It can be argued that any loss of a business is good for similar competing businesses so employment shouldn't be upset too much, but in reality, both cases would screw employees royally.

1141 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:55:16pm

re: #1119 CapeCoddah

Well, then, just shut them down. What do we need them for anyway?
Corporations are in business to make a profit, no matter the product. They are under no obligation whatsoever to give away what they produce because we all need the product. Like it or not.
Donks fail to consider things like the cost of research, research equipment, the cost of trials, bringing new drugs to market, etc... We NEED that stuff, how DARE they make a profit after all they spent to bring them to us and improve our miserable lives!

Not to mention that they spend almost twice their research budget on marketing just to convince us we need their products in the first place. And bribing doctors by flying them to seminars in the Cayman Islands, yeah, that' really justifies the fact that life preserving heart medications are $15 a pill (but only in the US, they can afford to charge less in other places).

Let's also talk about how little R&D goes into some drugs. For the past 50 years there have been two drugs available to treat ADHD, which has changed its name a few times. They just keep repackaging them in new extended release formulations and changing the name. The $5 generic stuff works just as well but is less convenient. It's the same with drugs for a lot of other ailments. They just keep repackaging the same old drugs with a new patent.

1142 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:55:23pm

re: #1123 Dark_Falcon

I've heard this objection before, but for the life of me I can't figure out how iceweasel is chronically abusive. Could you please elaborate on why you think she is? Because I do not see it.

Just my opinion from watching the baiting on her part for a long while now, then watching her turn it on her victim every time. Some dont like my opinion, fine. I am not pursuing a popularity contest win, and I call a spade a spade, as I see it. Some agree with me, some do not. It is my opinion, and I am as entitled to it as the next person.

1143 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:55:55pm

Bagua's Crystal Ball™

The markets will fall on Monday should 'Obamacare' pass. Crude Oil will close below $80 bbl.

1144 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:56:06pm

re: #1123 Dark_Falcon

I've heard this objection before, but for the life of me I can't figure out how iceweasel is chronically abusive. Could you please elaborate on why you think she is? Because I do not see it.

I think it has to do with the fact that she's liberal and she's right a lot.

1145 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:56:14pm

re: #1126 CapeCoddah

Nope, but I will speak my mind, just like you will.

I for one value your on-the-spot perspective of doings in the Bay State. It's nice to have such a geographically diverse forum where people can get the regional, real life, views of things.

1146 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:56:30pm

re: #1139 Rightwingconspirator

I see a Griffin at the top.

1147 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:56:44pm

re: #1127 Stanley Sea

See, I feel for you on that!

I have the first four "Saw" movies on DVD, have watched the first three a number of times, haven't opened four yet.

I actually found the first two clever. Even though the acting was mediocre and slightly gratuitous blood and guts, the core story and clever twists were not bad. Number three really got to the level of slasher stuff, over the top gore for no good reason. I suspect the rest of the series is that way.

I don't mind gore, it's just not really fun. Clever is fun. Well, I take that back, gore is fun if it's a movie like Peter Jackson's "Brain Dead."

1148 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:56:58pm

re: #988 webevintage

And

John Boehner has said America is so weak as a country that if the HC legislation passes it will destroy us.
What happened to American Exceptionalism?

The US is the best and strongest country in the world except when health care changes. I think word 12 is where your exceptionalism went, but I could be wrong.

1149 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:57:46pm

re: #1119 CapeCoddah

What has that got to do with how much they pay the executives of regional monopolies?

And i specifically referenced Healthcare Companies - not Drug Companies, i do not conflate them.
Healthcare Firms should have been spending billions on introducing electronic records - all that research and software development they are supposed to do under your model of capitalism was not done. They failed. And they continued to pay massive salaries to the CEOs.

1150 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:57:49pm

re: #1144 Conservative Moonbat

I think it has to do with the fact that she's liberal and she's right a lot.

Ding ding ding!

And really pisses people off, enough that they start railing.

1151 KingKenrod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:58:08pm

re: #1143 Bagua

Bagua's Crystal Ball™

The markets will fall on Monday should 'Obamacare' pass. Crude Oil will close below $80 bbl.

I'm not so sure. The markets like certainty, and a bill passage will mean certainty. Companies can start planning. That means they will figure out a way to continue to make profit.

1152 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:58:30pm

re: #1143 Bagua

Bagua's Crystal Ball™

The markets will fall on Monday should 'Obamacare' pass. Crude Oil will close below $80 bbl.

Brent crude is already below $80. The DJI futures are only at -30 points for Monday.

1153 keloyd  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:58:51pm

re: #1076 wozzablog

The banks will have payed backmore to the government than was lent to them.
How they find ways to pay that interest has been left up to them.
The bailouts though - were unfortunately required.


1. + for the future perfect tense.
2. The benevolent federal boot on your neck has one advantage of being able to make its own terms and turn a profit repeatedly in these situations. When Chrysler was bailed out in the 80s, we taxpayers got repaid in full, plus interest. I'm thinking the same goes for GM this time and the banks. I don't like statism, but the government, from whom all blessings flow, makes sure it gets paid before all other lenders, leans on management, and generally throws its weight around in its own interest.

re: #1088 Walter L. Newton
Ex-directors of the CBO are not wingnuts, necessarily, though I don't know whether to agree on his bean counting. The CBO has a good reputation and is remarkably nonpartisan.

1154 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:59:10pm

re: #1123 Dark_Falcon

I've heard this objection before, but for the life of me I can't figure out how iceweasel is chronically abusive. Could you please elaborate on why you think she is? Because I do not see it.

Some people come in here and attack her repeatedly and then try to accuse her of being 'abusive' or some such nonsense. It's so old - you'd think they'd realise this was a failed strategy by now.

I said to ice-ski recently offline that if I were a conservative posting on LGF, I'd expect to see better than this sort of nonsense from my political compatriots - ie proper debate, not stupid personal attacks. I'd be demanding it in fact. Kudos to you my friend for your decency.

1155 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 6:59:13pm
1156 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:00:02pm

re: #1092 wozzablog

Profits which are money paid to the company by consumers for goods and services.

Corporate money does not just appear from thin air.

Corporations who provide utillities and healthcare - goods that are not easily obtainable elsewhere are essentially paid by the public purse and are fleecing us in corporate compensation packages.

Huh?

1157 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:00:10pm

re: #1135 Varek Raith

I've seen it, but walter's a different generation and all that >

re: #1134 Walter L. Newton

pff you won't offend me, I already know that most of it is 'guilty pleasure trash' at best > I just like different perspectives.

1158 limewash  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:00:11pm

re: #1102 Walter L. Newton

heh..deathnote...the japanese movie was good ^_^

1159 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:00:13pm

re: #993 brookly red

no, lots of manufacturing jobs are coming to the US (Toyota, Mercedes etc. ) just in non-union states...

So the larger, higher tech jobs are coming in while the small consumer goods jobs are going out. A lot of the Asian companies have systems where unions aren't needed to give the workers fair wages and benefits, and frankly automotive unions have gone way too far and should be pushed back some.

1160 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:00:20pm

re: #1123 Dark_Falcon

I've heard this objection before, but for the life of me I can't figure out how iceweasel is chronically abusive. Could you please elaborate on why you think she is? Because I do not see it.

It's a little meme pushed by certain now banned members, some of whom frantically emailed charles for months demanding that he ban their personal enemies, and lost their shit when he wouldn't.
Handy translator:
"abusive"=winning arguments
"bullying"=refusing to be bulled
etc.

Most of it has to do with misdirected rage at the perceived 'change' in focus on LGF, the addition of new liberal posters, and so on. As one of the first more outspoken and more combative libs to arrive last summer, ire tends to focus on me.

1161 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:00:32pm

re: #1108 iceweasel

Happy Trails/Flight for Jimmah!
May your journey be swift & easy!
And your honey waiting at the end of the trip!

1162 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:00:58pm

I think I'm gonna puke.

1163 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:01:05pm

re: #1157 windsagio

I've seen it, but walter's a different generation and all that >

re: #1134 Walter L. Newton

pff you won't offend me, I already know that most of it is 'guilty pleasure trash' at best > I just like different perspectives.

I figured you'd seen it, just didn't want to spoil it for Walter.
;)

1164 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:01:05pm

re: #1144 Conservative Moonbat

I think it has to do with the fact that she's liberal and she's right a lot.

It does not have one single thing to do with her politics. Not one. There are a lot of liberals here, and I just picked her out of thin air? Nope.

1165 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:01:25pm

re: #1161 Floral Giraffe

Happy Trails/Flight for Jimmah!
May your journey be swift & easy!
And your honey waiting at the end of the trip!

Is the wedding soon?

1166 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:02:26pm

re: #1162 Racer X

I think I'm gonna puke.

Too much green beer???

1167 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:02:44pm

Louis Armstrong on the Ed Sullivan show:

1168 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:02:56pm

re: #1146 prairiefire

Yeah, I get these shapes from the flame. D_L's is what we call the Laughting dragon. I have a dolphin too.

1169 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:03:24pm

re: #996 CapeCoddah

That 22 mil hole is for less than 90 days... not to mention the other debt on top of it, and the next 9 months. LOOK>>> a shiny thing!

You know nothing about me, so don't go making the assumption I'm too stupid to look beyond the superficial. I asked because I don't know the history of the system and assumed you did.

1170 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:03:28pm

One has an obligation to one's fellow human beings to keep one's self as healthy and as in-shape as possible.

Have I heard this thought expresses much at all in this one year plus shouting match on "health care reform?"

No, I have not.

This shouting match has been pandering on one side and selfishness on the other, and not much good for the real strength of the country.

Moron politicians, from the top on down.

And the sleepy, lazy constituents, morons too.

1171 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:03:31pm

re: #1157 windsagio

I've seen it, but walter's a different generation and all that >

re: #1134 Walter L. Newton

pff you won't offend me, I already know that most of it is 'guilty pleasure trash' at best > I just like different perspectives.

Different generation... get off that... we both understand, enjoy and appreciate "guilty pleasure trash" the same way. Just the other night I was watching a Kate Smith movie with Donald O'Connor... what a gas...

1172 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:03:32pm
1173 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:04:13pm

re: #1161 Floral Giraffe

Happy Trails/Flight for Jimmah!
May your journey be swift & easy!
And your honey waiting at the end of the trip!

Thanks so much FG. I was just thinking, when I first got here, some days it was almost impossible to post, but I always knew that I could count on a kind word from people like you, Hoops, and DF.
Really, it made all the difference and kept me going. Thank you!

Hope you're well today and wish you joy always.

1174 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:04:18pm

re: #1166 Varek Raith

Too much green beer???

Doctor! I believe we attached the enema tube into the wrong orifice.

/

1175 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:04:27pm

re: #1142 CapeCoddah

Just my opinion from watching the baiting on her part for a long while now, then watching her turn it on her victim every time. Some dont like my opinion, fine. I am not pursuing a popularity contest win, and I call a spade a spade, as I see it. Some agree with me, some do not. It is my opinion, and I am as entitled to it as the next person.

I have seldom seen her bait. I have seen her hammer poor arguments or incorrect data hard, but that is not baiting in my book. I would ask you for a specific example.

1176 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:04:43pm

re: #1156 The Shadow Do

See first line of the statement.

1177 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:04:44pm

re: #1173 iceweasel

Thanks so much FG. I was just thinking, when I first got here, some days it was almost impossible to post, but I always knew that I could count on a kind word from people like you, Hoops, and DF.
Really, it made all the difference and kept me going. Thank you!

Hope you're well today and wish you joy always.

And you know what you can always count on me for... :)

1178 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:04:49pm

re: #1154 Jimmah

Some people come in here and attack her repeatedly and then try to accuse her of being 'abusive' or some such nonsense. It's so old - you'd think they'd realise this was a failed strategy by now.

I said to ice-ski recently offline that if I were a conservative posting on LGF, I'd expect to see better than this sort of nonsense from my political compatriots - ie proper debate, not stupid personal attacks. I'd be demanding it in fact. Kudos to you my friend for your decency.

One must wonder why more than one person would make that accusation. You can only brush that off so many times. Not everyone is blind.Lots of people do not want to see truths like that. I know, I lived it. I have disagreements politically with lots of folks here. No one else here has ever made me voice an opinion of that nature. And, I am not alone, as you point out.

1179 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:05:06pm

re: #1005 iceweasel

Thank you.

1180 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:05:14pm

re: #1161 Floral Giraffe

Happy Trails/Flight for Jimmah!
May your journey be swift & easy!
And your honey waiting at the end of the trip!

Thanks FG :)

1181 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:05:18pm

re: #1169 b_sharp

You know nothing about me, so don't go making the assumption I'm too stupid to look beyond the superficial. I asked because I don't know the history of the system and assumed you did.

Then you have my apology.

1182 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:05:31pm

re: #1170 Ojoe

"expressed"

PIMF

1183 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:06:00pm

re: #1168 Rightwingconspirator

Yeah, I get these shapes from the flame. D_L's is what we call the Laughting dragon. I have a dolphin too.

That is so cool. I can see an eagle too.

1184 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:06:09pm

re: #1170 Ojoe

One has an obligation to one's fellow human beings to keep one's self as healthy and as in-shape as possible.

what the fuck country are you living in? Sparta?

1185 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:06:12pm

re: #1173 iceweasel

My crystal ball, sees shoe shopping in your future.
! LOL!
You're a treat & a treasure, as is Jimmah!
Be well, have fun & don't forget the cleats for Jimmah's shoes!

1186 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:06:27pm

Richard Nixon signs the National Cancer Act of 1971

1187 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:06:46pm

re: #1177 Walter L. Newton

And you know what you can always count on me for... :)

CRANKYPANTS!
Hoorah!

1188 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:07:09pm

A good bar is filled with good people, good atmosphere, and endless opportunities for drunken debauchery. A sad bar is filled with about five or six people who sit at the bar looking as if their souls have been crushed long ago, their faces a mixture of apathy and despair, giving off a vibe of "too lazy for suicide". Here are those people's favorite places to hang out, also known as The Saddest Bars to Drink In:

The 5 Saddest Bars to Drink In

1189 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:07:23pm

re: #1007 Jimmah

This is butthurt:


[Video]

Thanks. Did you do that one?

I'm still laughing.

1190 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:07:31pm

re: #1184 The Shadow Do

Can't be.

because THIS IS SPARTA!!!

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

1191 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:07:48pm

re: #1184 The Shadow Do

what the fuck country are you living in? Sparta?

1192 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:08:10pm

re: #1152 Gus 802

Brent crude is already below $80. The DJI futures are only at -30 points for Monday.

Did you agree or disagree with the prediction?

1193 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:08:28pm

re: #1170 Ojoe

Would this obligation that one owes to society encompass the use of trans fats and salts?Also, Michelle Obama's fight against child hood obesity:[Link: www.3stepads.com...]

1194 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:09:02pm

re: #1018 Conservative Moonbat

It's derived from the feeling of just having had ones ass kicked I believe.

Hoof in ass disease?

1195 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:09:28pm

re: #1178 CapeCoddah

One must wonder why more than one person would make that accusation. You can only brush that off so many times. Not everyone is blind.Lots of people do not want to see truths like that. I know, I lived it. I have disagreements politically with lots of folks here. No one else here has ever made me voice an opinion of that nature. And, I am not alone, as you point out.

Oh let me see what could possibly be the reason more than one person would try to pull this garbage? Um....because there's more than one butthurt wingnut who doesn't have the necessaries for proper debate and finds it easier to resort to this hopeless crap?

Seriously - of all the dumb arguments. You might as well say that since Charles has more than one detractor - nay several - they must have a point. You are now at the very bottom of the barrel of stupid. Well done.

1196 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:09:34pm

re: #1184 The Shadow Do

No, the USA. I see plenty of bovine overweight people and you know their health problems are totally preventable.

1197 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:09:35pm

re: #1171 Walter L. Newton

I just like calling you old :D

1198 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:10:02pm

re: #1021 brookly red

actually I did vote pretty left, now I am ahem, butthurt... I guess I will have to do a Regan.

Voting on the issues rather than the ideology makes sense IMHO.

1199 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:11:16pm

My husband just read about Rep. Cleaver being spat upon. Mr. Independent shook his head and said the Tea Party is going to bite the Republicans in the ass.

1200 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:11:18pm

But I got zee Crystal Ball!


- Peter Tosh
1201 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:11:20pm

re: #1195 Jimmah

Well you know that old canard about smoke and fire :P

1202 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:12:13pm

re: #1160 iceweasel

Zactly! Cape has this one all wrong.

1203 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:12:21pm

re: #1192 Bagua

Did you agree or disagree with the prediction?

No. I agree with KingKenrod. The market likes certainty. If anything if it passes we might see a rally with health care stocks. But certainty is the key here. Won't have any effect on oil prices in either case.

1204 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:12:28pm

re: #1196 Ojoe

Prevention is the best kind of medicine - the UK is going that way, slowly, but surely.

The system of family doctors and medical practice dieticians in the UK is quite good at catching conditions early - and helping people lose weight when they get into the system.

1205 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:12:39pm

re: #1165 webevintage

Is the wedding soon?

Already happened! The wedding was just before Christmas, in Central Park. We made a video to commemorate the event (this caused a lot of butthurt btw) :

1206 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:13:32pm

What's worse than being a communist?
A HomoCommunist!
Rep. Frank wants GOP to distance itself from Tea Party protests after gay slurs

Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), called a "Homo Communist" on Saturday by protesters opposed to President Barack Obama's health plan, says his GOP colleagues need to do more to "differentiate themselves" from the hateful speech spewed in the healthcare debate's final hours.

Frank, an openly gay lawmaker, had to call the Captiol Police “to move away” five or six protesters who were banging on his office door and shouting through the mail slot.

While making the trek across the street from his office to the Capitol, Frank was called a “Homo Communist” and told to “go homo to Massachusetts” by several protesters, according to witnesses and confirmed by Frank.

1207 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:14:07pm

re: #1189 b_sharp

Thanks. Did you do that one?

I'm still laughing.

We did! we did a whole series. Our first Jimmah ice production. comes in damn handy, I must say. John Cole at Balloon Juice featured the Beck one the day Obama won the Nobel.
Throbbing

Butthurt

Smarting
Safe
That's me on the voiceovers, lol.

1208 Ojoe  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:14:14pm

re: #1204 wozzablog

Good!

1209 [deleted]  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:14:23pm
1210 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:15:48pm

re: #1209 CapeCoddah

GAZE

1211 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:16:46pm

re: #1203 Gus 802

No. I agree with KingKenrod. The market likes certainty. If anything if it passes we might see a rally with health care stocks. But certainty is the key here. Won't have any effect on oil prices in either case.

The Oil price has bee tightly correlated with the market indices recently.

1212 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:16:48pm

Now this is a real bar. Dave's Stagecoach Inn[Link: www.yelp.com...]

1213 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:17:00pm

re: #1209 CapeCoddah

I never said you bullied me, you could not do it, I would not allow it, or leave because of it. I will hand it right back every time. Actually, I find LGF better, now. There is an actual difference of opinion, and a debate to be had. It is no longer one sided. I am certainly not in a "Rage", and I was not here much when you first got here. Your opinion of yourself is hugely overinflated, which is one of the BIG red flags, whether you realize it or not. I am one of those who is not fooled by you, and never will be. You are a toxic personality who enjoys hurting other people.You are a quintessential school bully, and I will make no apologies for my opinion.

Huh? You just said:

I never said you bullied me...

And then finished with:

You are a quintessential school bully...

1214 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:17:03pm
1215 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:17:34pm

re: #1064 CapeCoddah

Just my opinion, Ma'am. I have see more antagonism out of you than anyone here combined.
"Then the classic it's not my fault" response.
You need help.

That was uncalled for. Your attacks have been unnecessarily personal and vitriolic. You seem to see the devil where he doesn't exist.

1216 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:17:47pm

re: #1206 Killgore Trout

What's worse than being a communist?
A HomoCommunist!
Rep. Frank wants GOP to distance itself from Tea Party protests after gay slurs

Awful awful awful.

1217 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:18:30pm

re: #1211 Bagua

The Oil price has bee tightly correlated with the market indices recently.

Ah, OK. All I know is that higher oil prices is actually a good indicator. I know that might seem odd.

1218 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:19:05pm

re: #1176 wozzablog

See first line of the statement.


"Profits which are money paid to the company by consumers for goods and services"

Money is paid to a company, profits are, well, not necessarily so. I can only wish that profits would be paid to a company. Hell, I would start a few just so someone could pay me profits.

Like I said, "huh?"

1219 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:19:18pm

re: #1210 Rightwingconspirator

GAZE

Not a problem, But, I refuse to bow to bullies so that I dont get a bloody nose.

1220 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:19:30pm

re: #1209 CapeCoddah

I do not concur. I've not seen ice go after a reasonable argument, or a factual statement. The problem, IMO, is that she does go after mistakes and then the people so targeted won't back off their mistake out of pride, anger, or partisanship. I have that problem myself, sometimes. But I try not to let it poison my relationships with others.

1221 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:19:54pm

re: #1209 CapeCoddah

I never said you bullied me, you could not do it, I would not allow it, or leave because of it. I will hand it right back every time. Actually, I find LGF better, now. There is an actual difference of opinion, and a debate to be had. It is no longer one sided. I am certainly not in a "Rage", and I was not here much when you first got here. Your opinion of yourself is hugely overinflated, which is one of the BIG red flags, whether you realize it or not. I am one of those who is not fooled by you, and never will be. You are a toxic personality who enjoys hurting other people.You are a quintessential school bully, and I will make no apologies for my opinion.

I love it. Only on the internet do the smart kids get called bullies.

1222 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:20:14pm

re: #1209 CapeCoddah

Your opinion of yourself is hugely overinflated, which is one of the BIG red flags, whether you realize it or not. I am one of those who is not fooled by you, and never will be. You are a toxic personality who enjoys hurting other people.You are a quintessential school bully, and I will make no apologies for my opinion.

This sort of statement would be one of the huge red flags of a wingnut suffering post-iceweasel-induced-stress-trauma.

Thanks for your input. May I remind you at this point that you don't know me, as b-sharp had to remind you above when you made unfounded judgements and assumptions about him?
I'm pretty certain I won't be getting an apology from you, although you were shamed into offering him one for far less.

1223 Super-ego  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:20:15pm

Settle down boys and girls. It's time to get serious now.

Alien Abduction Day is here!

To your foil hat.

1224 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:20:28pm

A dancing Hugh Jackman is a hot Hugh Jackman.[Link: justjared.buzznet.com...]

1225 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:20:34pm

re: #1183 Stanley Sea

Flames and clouds, the mind simply awaits the imaginative opportunities.

1226 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:20:53pm

You have all been found guilty and sentenced to the Happy Hippy Drum Circle.

:P

1227 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:21:34pm

re: #1226 Varek Raith

You have all been found guilty and sentenced to the Happy Hippy Drum Circle.

:P

I'll bring the Robert Bly poetry.

1228 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:21:42pm

re: #1213 Gus 802

Huh? You just said:

I never said you bullied me...

And then finished with:

You are a quintessential school bully...

Yes, I said she has not bullied ME. That does not mean she is not a bully. Simple.

1229 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:22:22pm

re: #1071 The Sanity Inspector

I'm still very allergic to language like that. This program may or may not bring about a highly desirable social good. But no way is it a right. Rights do not require the time and/or money of other citizens to be spent on one's behalf. Health care does.

It's part of the social contract we all sign by being social animals, it is in effect written in our DNA. The idea of a 'right' is archaic and needs to be re-defined.

I have yet to meet someone who can define it as it stands.

1230 Cheechako  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:22:34pm

re: #877 HoosierHoops

I got an HP 6930 laptop running the Hi Def big screen TV...I'm posting with a dual core dell d620 and I have a Lenovo T61 logged into the corporate network via VPN across the room..I'm a tech nut...System Admin


I hope this is a wireless set-up so you don't trip over all the cables!!111!!

1231 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:22:52pm

re: #1209 CapeCoddah

A tirade of abuse - that's all that post is. Keep going - you are just exposing yourself as the hater you are.

1232 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:22:56pm

re: #1215 b_sharp

That was uncalled for. Your attacks have been unnecessarily personal and vitriolic. You seem to see the devil where he doesn't exist.

Called for or not, it is my opinion. Period.
I happen to believe it is LONG overdue.

1233 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:23:15pm

re: #1228 CapeCoddah

Yes, I said she has not bullied ME. That does not mean she is not a bully. Simple.

Y'know, if you were concerned with 'civility' and having interesting discussions, you'd probably be posting about something other than your deranged hate of other posters here.
Just a thought.

1234 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:23:26pm

re: #1206 Killgore Trout

What's worse than being a communist?
A HomoCommunist!
Rep. Frank wants GOP to distance itself from Tea Party protests after gay slurs

The GOP should certainly denounce those attacks, but it likely will not for fear of those who condemn those attacks being called RINOs.

1235 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:23:28pm

Laser Pointer Aimed Toward Space In 1997 Finally Annoying Planet 13 Light-Years Away

ZORAXION CITY, IMPERIAL HOMEWORLD—A laser pointer directed at the night sky by a young human in 1997 has finally reached the home planet of the Zoraxian race and is "annoying the hell out of everybody," sources on the alien planet reported Tuesday. "What is that irritating dot?" Zoraxian Emperor Fi'ar Shal Shoka communicated in a telepathic message delivered to the outer edges of the Throndastural Sands. "It's pointed right at my facial genitalia. This is so embarrassing." At press time, irritated Zoraxian military personnel were hard at work building a giant megalaser designed to incinerate the source planet of the irritation.
1236 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:23:28pm

re: #1079 GForce

Obama = Train Wreck

Want to show me a politician who hasn't failed in some manner?

1237 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:23:29pm

re: #1217 Gus 802

Ah, OK. All I know is that higher oil prices is actually a good indicator. I know that might seem odd.

Not odd at all, with the recent correlation, a higher oil price indicates the market is rising and the economy doing well. The idea being, the better the largest market is doing (US), the more oil will be consumed, thus the higher price.

1238 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:23:48pm

re: #1226 Varek Raith

You have all been found guilty and sentenced to the Happy Hippy Drum Circle.

:P

Oh go pound happy hippy drum sand up your ass :)

The last time I went to a drum circle 8 drunk, pot bellied middle aged men started beating the shit out of each other with the drumsticks because one of them got into an argument about the benefits of green tea as a diuretic.

1239 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:23:54pm

Ice I have a note from D_L for ya

((IW))!!

1240 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:24:14pm

LGF is a big place. Some people just don't get along. It might be due to politics, or it might just be due to personalities.

Either way its not the end of the world. Deal with it.

1241 Super-ego  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:24:51pm

re: #1238 Walter L. Newton

Oh go pound happy hippy drum sand up your ass :)

The last time I went to a drum circle 8 drunk, pot bellied middle aged men started beating the shit out of each other with the drumsticks because one of them got into an argument about the benefits of green tea as a diuretic.

That visual makes me laugh.

1242 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:24:58pm

re: #1238 Walter L. Newton

Oh go pound happy hippy drum sand up your ass :)

The last time I went to a drum circle 8 drunk, pot bellied middle aged men started beating the shit out of each other with the drumsticks because one of them got into an argument about the benefits of green tea as a diuretic.

XD

1243 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:25:45pm

re: #1240 Racer X

LGF is a big place. Some people just don't get along. It might be due to politics, or it might just be due to personalities.

Either way its not the end of the world. Deal with it.

1244 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:25:55pm

re: #1238 Walter L. Newton

Oh go pound happy hippy drum sand up your ass :)

The last time I went to a drum circle 8 drunk, pot bellied middle aged men started beating the shit out of each other with the drumsticks because one of them got into an argument about the benefits of green tea as a diuretic.

I've never seen a drum circle that involved drumsticks. I'm deducing you've never seen a drum circle.

1245 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:26:09pm

bullies and haters and huggies....
is this third grade or fifth grade?
of course there are bullies and assholes...who's who tho?

1246 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:26:11pm

re: #1220 Dark_Falcon

I do not concur. I've not seen ice go after a reasonable argument, or a factual statement. The problem, IMO, is that she does go after mistakes and then the people so targeted won't back off their mistake out of pride, anger, or partisanship. I have that problem myself, sometimes. But I try not to let it poison my relationships with others.

I have seen her debase those who agree with her to an extremely unacceptable level, then continue the antagonism. Sorry, DF, but that is a sign of a serious problem. She enjoys debasing others, and gets a kick from it. Some see it, some do not. Some, I suspect, are afraid to call it. I am not.

1247 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:26:28pm

Some interesting info for any King Crimson fans -

Something nasty in your garden's waiting
Patiently, till it can have your heart
Try to go but it won't let you
Don't you know it's out to get you running
Keep on running
They're running after you babe

If you've ever wondered about the somewhat 'heavy' lyrics of the song "Land of Make Believe" by frivolous 80's pop nothings Buck's Fizz, here's the reason: they were written by none other than King Crimson lyricist Pete Sinfield:

1248 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:26:43pm

re: #1246 CapeCoddah

I have seen her debase those who agree with her to an extremely unacceptable level, then continue the antagonism. Sorry, DF, but that is a sign of a serious problem. She enjoys debasing others, and gets a kick from it. Some see it, some do not. Some, I suspect, are afraid to call it. I am not.

Correction... those who DISAGREE with her

1249 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:26:58pm

re: #1245 albusteve

bullies and haters and huggies...
is this third grade or fifth grade?
of course there are bullies and assholes...who's who tho?

Oh shit. Albusteve is here.

/

1250 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:27:00pm

re: #1244 Conservative Moonbat

I've never seen a drum circle that involved drumsticks. I'm deducing you've never seen a drum circle.

Then what the fuck do you beat the drum with? Your peni... :)

1251 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:27:34pm

re: #1245 albusteve

How's the grandkid??

1252 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:27:49pm

re: #1234 Dark_Falcon

That's just what Rahm says.[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

1253 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:28:05pm

re: #1240 Racer X

LGF is a big place. Some people just don't get along. It might be due to politics, or it might just be due to personalities.

Either way its not the end of the world. Deal with it.

Quite Concur.

1254 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:28:22pm

Good night everybody!

1255 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:28:28pm

re: #1250 Walter L. Newton

1256 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:28:54pm

re: #1245 albusteve

bullies and haters and huggies...
is this third grade or fifth grade?
of course there are bullies and assholes...who's who tho?

Steve, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, Steve. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, Steve. And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!

1257 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:29:19pm

re: #1232 CapeCoddah

wait, are we giving unvarnished opinions?

You'd better be careful what you ask for, that particular door is hard to close >

1258 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:29:26pm

re: #1222 iceweasel

This sort of statement would be one of the huge red flags of a wingnut suffering post-iceweasel-induced-stress-trauma.

Thanks for your input. May I remind you at this point that you don't know me, as b-sharp had to remind you above when you made unfounded judgements and assumptions about him?
I'm pretty certain I won't be getting an apology from you, although you were shamed into offering him one for far less.

LOL, There is that ego again, "Post IW induced stress"! LOL, You are pretty full of yourself, huh?
Here is a tip, it is not all about you.
I offer sincere apologies when I am wrong.You are correct, you will not be getting one from me, ever.

1259 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:29:29pm

Harry Truman signs up for his Medicare card.

1260 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:29:46pm

re: #1081 Varek Raith

Varek = Vampire

Raith = Raith.

1261 keloyd  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:29:54pm

How about we all get back to arguing about AGW and Israel and who's blowing dog whistles?

1262 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:30:01pm

re: #1218 The Shadow Do

Profits are made by a company exceeding their outgoings with the incomings - throw in some net and gross and you have a balance sheet.

That balance sheet then gets broken down into where the money - in our case above the outgoings - has gone, what i am highlighting is the pay of the top executives in industries that are almost monopolistic and rely on the consumer for their incomings.

People need healthcare and power.

The consumer often has no choice in where those dollars go companywise and no say in how that money is spent - very very large pay deals for executives who keep their companys behind the curve of information technology and development are not justified.

I cite that as a reason the market is (in these cases) no better than anything the government can come up with as the Government is charged with doing exactly the same - but in healthcare for less money overall.

1263 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:30:05pm

re: #1252 prairiefire

That's just what Rahm says.[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

I'm actually agreeing with Rahm Emanuel. I think the world must be coming to an end.

[runs around screaming]

1264 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:30:24pm

re: #1251 Stanley Sea

How's the grandkid??

he cries because he wants his grandpa...but they played Sticky Fingers for him and he settled down with a smile on his face...my boy

1265 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:30:26pm

re: #1261 keloyd

How about we all get back to arguing about AGW and Israel and who's blowing dog whistles?

That would be torture.

1266 Bryntröll  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:30:30pm

re: #1263 Dark_Falcon

[Link: 130.208.67.1...]

Its erupting here at least...

1267 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:31:08pm

re: #1266 Bryntröll

What is that?

1268 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:31:10pm

re: #1256 Walter L. Newton

Steve, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, Steve. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, Steve. And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!

Great Team America: World Police reference.

1269 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:31:16pm

re: #1264 albusteve

he cries because he wants his grandpa...but they played Sticky Fingers for him and he settled down with a smile on his face...my boy

Oh that is good.

1270 Bryntröll  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:31:39pm

re: #1267 Rightwingconspirator

A volcanic eruption in Iceland that just started

1271 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:31:48pm

re: #1229 b_sharp

It's part of the social contract we all sign by being social animals, it is in effect written in our DNA. The idea of a 'right' is archaic and needs to be re-defined.

[...]

Would you mind expanding on that thought?

1272 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:31:49pm

re: #1233 iceweasel

Y'know, if you were concerned with 'civility' and having interesting discussions, you'd probably be posting about something other than your deranged hate of other posters here.
Just a thought.

Please show me where I said I hated you. I simply said I see right thru you, and I know what you are. I am less than impressed. I also know how folks with your personality handles opinions like that. You detest anyone who sees the truth.

1273 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:31:54pm

re: #1256 Walter L. Newton

Steve, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, Steve. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, Steve. And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!

give me a minute here...I'm working on this

1274 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:32:00pm

re: #1258 CapeCoddah

LOL, There is that ego again, "Post IW induced stress"! LOL, You are pretty full of yourself, huh?
Here is a tip, it is not all about you.
I offer sincere apologies when I am wrong.You are correct, you will not be getting one from me, ever.

The post-iceweasel-induced-stress-trauma was a joke. Sarcasm. A poke in the eye. It wasn't meant to be anything more than that. Will you give it a rest already and stop being so overly sensitive.

1275 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:32:02pm

re: #1239 Rightwingconspirator

Ice I have a note from D_L for ya

((IW))!!

Thanks RWC, right back at her. And you!
I tend to think that jvic is right on this: people can disagree completely on political issues, but if they share a common good will towards people and society, they can get along. For the most part everyone here embodies that. That's why so many of us with wildly divergent opinions get along all the same.

. . . when the effects of female jealousy do not appear openly in their proper colours of rage and fury, we may suspect that mischievous passion to be at work privately, and attempting to undermine, what it doth not attack above-ground. Fielding, Tom Jones

There is a sort of jealousy which needs very little fire: it is hardly a passion, but a blight bred in the cloudy, damp despondency of uneasy egoism. Elliot, Middlemarch

1276 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:32:12pm

re: #1250 Walter L. Newton

Then what the fuck do you beat the drum with? Your peni... :)

It's generally conga drums beat with the heel and flat of the hand.

Not that it's really my scene but they seem to be ubiquitous at larger lefty functions.

1277 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:33:22pm

re: #1276 Conservative Moonbat

It's generally conga drums beat with the heel and flat of the hand.

Not that it's really my scene but they seem to be ubiquitous at larger lefty functions.

Well, this was a beginner drum circle... we had drumsticks and empty cream of wheat containers.

1278 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:33:26pm

re: #1276 Conservative Moonbat

It's generally conga drums beat with the heel and flat of the hand.

Not that it's really my scene but they seem to be ubiquitous at larger lefty functions.

Oh, you already gave it away. I think I've seen you down at my local beach./

1279 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:33:40pm

re: #1272 CapeCoddah

Please show me where I said I hated you.

Calling her the school yard bully is hardly a term of endearment..........

1280 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:33:48pm

re: #1261 keloyd

How about we all get back to arguing about AGW and Israel and who's blowing dog whistles?


I keep telling you it was only an ice cream cone.

1281 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:34:12pm

re: #1279 wozzablog

Calling her the school yard bully is hardly a term of endearment...

Wasn't sociopath thrown around at the beginning. Yep, I think it was.

1282 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:34:59pm

re: #1281 Stanley Sea

Wasn't sociopath thrown around at the beginning. Yep, I think it was.

some people just have it all...the complete package

1283 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:35:07pm

re: #1281 Stanley Sea

We could be dealing with one of those "hate the sinner, not the sin" type situations.

I'll keep listening and let you know..........

1284 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:35:18pm

re: #1257 windsagio

wait, are we giving unvarnished opinions?

You'd better be careful what you ask for, that particular door is hard to close >

Shoot.. I can take it.

1285 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:36:00pm

re: #1154 Jimmah

Some people come in here and attack her repeatedly and then try to accuse her of being 'abusive' or some such nonsense. It's so old - you'd think they'd realise this was a failed strategy by now.

I said to ice-ski recently offline that if I were a conservative posting on LGF, I'd expect to see better than this sort of nonsense from my political compatriots - ie proper debate, not stupid personal attacks. I'd be demanding it in fact. Kudos to you my friend for your decency.

And how did she answer?

1286 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:36:17pm

re: #1234 Dark_Falcon

The GOP should certainly denounce those attacks, but it likely will not for fear of those who condemn those attacks being called RINOs.

The GOP wants to cultivate the "Radical Gay Agenda" thing anyways so they're more than happy to welcome these people to fight against gay rights and promote conspiracies about Obama teaching "fisting" to school children. They are also more than happy to welcome the racists too. An all white Christian party is what they're aiming for.

1287 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:36:53pm

re: #1270 Bryntröll

Cool and ironic. Iceweasel spars and Iceland erupts. Heh.

1288 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:37:43pm

re: #1258 CapeCoddah

LOL, There is that ego again, "Post IW induced stress"! LOL, You are pretty full of yourself, huh?
Here is a tip, it is not all about you.
I offer sincere apologies when I am wrong.You are correct, you will not be getting one from me, ever.

Actually, given how often stalkers focus on iceweasel, post IW induced stress seems quite real. I don't agree with her on much politically, but I've found her a civil debater. Again, if you think she is not, please cite a specific example to prove your contention. I give you my word that a pose citing an example will not be downdinged by me.

1289 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:37:52pm
1290 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:38:05pm

re: #1274 Gus 802

The post-iceweasel-induced-stress-trauma was a joke. Sarcasm. A poke in the eye. It wasn't meant to be anything more than that. Will you give it a rest already and stop being so overly sensitive.

Couched as a joke, but a running theme all too often.

1291 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:38:09pm

re: #1286 Killgore Trout

The Republicans who have the worst fringe problem araound have always used the fringe against the opponents as in Dem = commie!

Just utterly craven hypocrisy.

1292 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:38:12pm

re: #1258 CapeCoddah

LOL, There is that ego again, "Post IW induced stress"! LOL, You are pretty full of yourself, huh?
Here is a tip, it is not all about you.
I offer sincere apologies when I am wrong.You are correct, you will not be getting one from me, ever.

Is there anything going on inside your head other than your deranged hatred of iceweasel? Again, all you are doing by continuing this and repeating this garbage is demonstrating that you are obsessed with iceweasel and demented with hate for her. Even people who are on your side politically are cringing at this display you are putting on.

For pity's sake - Image: lolcatsdotcomttbwex6me2ieahcu.jpg

1293 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:38:45pm

re: #1288 Dark_Falcon

Nor me.

1294 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:39:11pm

re: #1279 wozzablog

Calling her the school yard bully is hardly a term of endearment...

Nor was it meant to be, but, I never expressed hatred for IW. Do not put words in my mouth. I say exactly what I mean. No more, no less.

1295 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:39:36pm

re: #1196 Ojoe

No, the USA. I see plenty of bovine overweight people and you know their health problems are totally preventable.

Folks are addicts Ojoe. Bovinity is but one expression. They can not be eliminated. At least not in good conscience.

1296 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:39:37pm

re: #1288 Dark_Falcon

I - on the other hand am often an ass.


:-(

1297 Bryntröll  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:39:46pm

re: #1289 jaunte

[Link: www.ruv.is...]

That's live from the area at 02:38

1298 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:39:56pm

re: #1281 Stanley Sea

Wasn't sociopath thrown around at the beginning. Yep, I think it was.

Yep. And objecting to the ongoing meltdown by our butthurt friend, in any way, or responding to it, even as politely as I so far have, is of course ..further proof that I have a massive ego.

I'm interested by the number of freaks who need to tell me over and over that I think too highly of myself, that I'm really not all that clever, and at the same time that my opinions don't matter a bit and they're not at all threatened by me. Talk about self-refuting.

Oh well. This is boring. I'll be ignoring the actual bully posting a continuous stream of abuse now.

1299 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:40:31pm

re: #1281 Stanley Sea

Wasn't sociopath thrown around at the beginning. Yep, I think it was.

Yes, I said that.

1300 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:41:19pm

What about them Lakers, eh?

1301 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:41:27pm

re: #1288 Dark_Falcon

Actually, given how often stalkers focus on iceweasel, post IW induced stress seems quite real. I don't agree with her on much politically, but I've found her a civil debater. Again, if you think she is not, please cite a specific example to prove your contention. I give you my word that a pose citing an example will not be downdinged by me.

your word?...no downding?...dude you are in way too deep, you've been sucked into some nether blog world where relativity has been bent...you are confusing reality with the internet...jus sayin

1302 Bagua  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:41:30pm

re: #1289 jaunte

Increasing signs of activity at Eyjafjallajökull in Iceland
Anyone know how to pronounce that?

Sure, just say "Eyjafjallajökull".

1303 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:42:03pm

re: #1302 Bagua

Sure, just say "Eyjafjallajökull".

Just like it sounds.

1304 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:42:18pm

re: #1290 CapeCoddah

Couched as a joke, but a running theme all too often.


1305 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:43:25pm

re: #1289 jaunte

Increasing signs of activity at Eyjafjallajökull in Iceland
Anyone know how to pronounce that?

If it's ice-capped and it blows, there's going to be mudslides. I hope the folks downslope will be safe!

1306 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:43:35pm

just thought I'd drop by on this crazy saturday and see if everyone's being nice to each other..?

1307 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:43:36pm

re: #1288 Dark_Falcon

Actually, given how often stalkers focus on iceweasel, post IW induced stress seems quite real. I don't agree with her on much politically, but I've found her a civil debater. Again, if you think she is not, please cite a specific example to prove your contention. I give you my word that a pose citing an example will not be downdinged by me.

I am not a stalker. Go back and take a look at what she did to Sharmuta, for example. As for downdings, I could not care less about them. I have a real life. There are 60 registered users logged on. I am averaging 7 to 10 downdings. That is a LOT of folks keeping silent. I will take that.

1309 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:44:03pm

Lawmaker won't press charges after being spat on by Capitol Hill protestor

A congressman who was spat on by a protestor on Capitol Hill says he is declining to press charges, but turns out the Capitol Police say they made no arrests.

Missouri Democrat Emanuel Cleaver was making his way through a group of angry protestors when the incident occurred. It was one of several ugly incidents in a day of protests against President Barack Obama's health care overhaul measure, which faces a House vote on Sunday.

Cleaver, who is black, was also one of several lawmakers who faced racial epithets as they walked to the Capitol to vote. Sgt. Kimberly Schneider of the U.S. Capitol Police said in an e-mail later: "We did not make any arrests today."

1310 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:44:11pm

Oh brother.

1311 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:44:17pm

re: #1302 Bagua

Sure, just say "Eyjafjallajökull".

The third "L" is silent, mind.

1312 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:44:24pm

And this seems as good a time as any to announce the results of a major research project. Falcon's Wing Research is proud to conclude our study into Rabies transmission. Our study has researched wingnut claims as well as conducted first hand observations. Here are the study's findings:

1. The Iceweasel (Mustela Articus Liberalus) is not carrier of rabies.

2. The misperception by trolls that the species is a carrier is caused by the iceweasel's hunger for the Gamey Buttocks of trolls, as these are the iceweasel's favorite food. Trolls think that they have been infected with rabies after Iceweasel's logic bites them on the back side, but in reality they are simply suffering from severe butthurt.

1313 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:44:28pm

re: #1294 CapeCoddah

Nor was it meant to be, but, I never expressed hatred for IW. Do not put words in my mouth. I say exactly what I mean. No more, no less.

Nice try, but all these posts of yours on this subject here tonight are seething with hatred. The fact that you didn't actually say "I hate iceweasel" means nothing.

1314 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:45:10pm

re: #1292 Jimmah

Is there anything going on inside your head other than your deranged hatred of iceweasel? Again, all you are doing by continuing this and repeating this garbage is demonstrating that you are obsessed with iceweasel and demented with hate for her. Even people who are on your side politically are cringing at this display you are putting on.

For pity's sake - [Link: i238.photobucket.com...]

Trust me when I tell you that Ice occupies not even the smallest portion of my mind at any time.

1315 Bryntröll  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:45:43pm

re: #1305 The Sanity Inspector

It's actually between two glaciers, they now think, at fimmvörðuháls.
[Link: ja.is...]

1316 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:45:45pm

re: #1304 Conservative Moonbat

man goes to the psyches office - doctor says how can i help you..... well....

the man sits down on the couch and tells tales of shadowy figures following him around..... days on end, never letting him rest, but that no one else sees them


end of the session and a brick comes through the window of the doctors office -

Doctor says, i have some good news and some bad news.

The good news is you are not paranoid - the bad news is you will have to leave through the bathroom window.

1317 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:45:53pm

re: #1200 Bagua

Here is one Glenn Beck (and a few Lizards) might not approve of as it deals with the dreaded "social justice":

1318 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:45:53pm

re: #1301 albusteve

your word?...no downding?...dude you are in way too deep, you've been sucked into some nether blog world where relativity has been bent...you are confusing reality with the internet...jus sayin

True, thanks for pulling me back. i needed that.

1319 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:46:22pm

the longer and more elaborate the defense, the higher the guilt...
excluding myself...

1320 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:46:22pm

re: #1314 CapeCoddah

Trust me when I tell you that Ice occupies not even the smallest portion of my mind at any time.

I call BS on that one.

1321 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:46:39pm

re: #1295 The Shadow Do

You think just like I do and you are a conservative. Wild.

1322 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:47:00pm

re: #1284 CapeCoddah

Shoot.. I can take it.

I'm not really worried about your response :p

Once we really start flinging real insults, the reasonable people either get offended and involved, or just leave.

The hit and run angry conservative is like LGF's summer cold. You can never really get rid of it, but you have to try to keep it from ruining your day too much.

1323 Escaped Hillbilly  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:47:01pm

I've been in class all day and half the evening...and this is what I come back to? On a positive note, the teenager responsible for the Walmart "All black people should leave..." announcement has been arrested.

1324 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:47:15pm

re: #1306 cliffster

just thought I'd drop by on this crazy saturday and see if everyone's being nice to each other..?

We're undergoing new post deprivation and turning on each other.

1325 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:47:17pm

Haha, looks like not. And it's not even a heated discussion about HCR.

1326 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:47:27pm
1327 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:47:32pm

re: #1319 albusteve

Ofcourse excluding yourself, my good and dear friend.........


:-)

1328 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:47:45pm

re: #1317 bratwurst

Ahhhh, just what I needed. I usually only do Reggae on sunday mornings but I'll make an exception in this case.

1329 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:48:23pm

re: #1313 Jimmah

Nice try, but all these posts of yours on this subject here tonight are seething with hatred. The fact that you didn't actually say "I hate iceweasel" means nothing.

Well, if you say so, Jimmah! You know me better than I do!

1330 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:48:37pm

re: #1326 Dark_Falcon

What if it wasn't a bobcat? What if it's name was really Steve?

1331 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:49:15pm

re: #1207 iceweasel

We did! we did a whole series. Our first Jimmah ice production. comes in damn handy, I must say. John Cole at Balloon Juice featured the Beck one the day Obama won the Nobel.
Throbbing

Butthurt

Smarting
Safe
That's me on the voiceovers, lol.

Great voice.

There are two things that draw me to a woman, intellect, voice and eyes.
Sorry.
There are three things that draw me to a woman; intellect, voice, eyes and smile.

OK, something ain't workin'.

1332 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:49:23pm

re: #1320 Dark_Falcon

I call BS on that one.

This shit is bananas. Loved your research report, btw.

There is nothing nobler or more admirable than when two people who see eye to eye keep house as man and wife, confounding their enemies and delighting their friends.

Homer (not Simpson, I don't think. :) )

1333 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:49:40pm

that darn ice, why she gotta be such a meanie?

1334 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:49:49pm

re: #1330 PT Barnum

I thought steve was an egg.......

1335 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:50:05pm

re: #1323 Escaped Hillbilly

I've been in class all day and half the evening...and this is what I come back to? On a positive note, the teenager responsible for the Walmart "All black people should leave..." announcement has been arrested.

Stupid kid needs to be taught a lesson. I favor making him walk the streets with a sandwich board reading "I made a stupid racist announcement, and caused others distress. I'm sorry for being a fool."

1336 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:50:11pm

re: #1320 Dark_Falcon

I call BS on that one.

You may, but as I said, I have a life, DF, IW gets zero thought from me. I do not live for any blog.

1337 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:50:11pm

re: #1313 Jimmah

Nice try, but all these posts of yours on this subject here tonight are seething with hatred. The fact that you didn't actually say "I hate iceweasel" means nothing.

not the one's I've read...seething hatred is way over the top, but hey!...everyone's a hater troll now!

1338 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:50:19pm

MU playing tomorrow. K State are going to the Sweet 16. Will Mu win and go to the dance? Could be another Border War.

1339 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:50:33pm

re: #1209 CapeCoddah

I never said you bullied me, you could not do it, I would not allow it, or leave because of it. I will hand it right back every time. Actually, I find LGF better, now. There is an actual difference of opinion, and a debate to be had. It is no longer one sided. I am certainly not in a "Rage", and I was not here much when you first got here. Your opinion of yourself is hugely overinflated, which is one of the BIG red flags, whether you realize it or not. I am one of those who is not fooled by you, and never will be. You are a toxic personality who enjoys hurting other people.You are a quintessential school bully, and I will make no apologies for my opinion.

Many more notches down and you'll become a non-entity.

1340 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:50:39pm

re: #1315 Bryntröll

It's actually between two glaciers, they now think, at fimmvörðuháls.
[Link: ja.is...]

Looks like that coastal highway would be vulnerable to a flash flood of meltwater. I've seen nature documentaries of Icelandic towns getting socked with mudslides. Hope this one doesn't turn out like that.

1341 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:51:49pm

re: #1296 wozzablog

I - on the other hand am often an ass.

:-(

Only three people agreeing?

I am shocked. Shocked i say.

1342 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:53:12pm

re: #1336 CapeCoddah

Okay so zero thought about Ice and a bunch of posts about Ice. So, no thought per post. Got it.

1343 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:53:23pm

re: #1314 CapeCoddah

Trust me when I tell you that Ice occupies not even the smallest portion of my mind at any time.

Then perhaps it's time for you to let it drop? Or is the image in the mirror that you fight so compelling?

1344 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:53:40pm

re: #1262 wozzablog

First, I don't give a rip about the whole health care thing that is on the front burner right now. It is defective now, and will be defective come monday when it is law.

That said, your comment:

what i am highlighting is the pay of the top executives in industries that are almost monopolistic and rely on the consumer for their incomings.


is horse hockey. Are you jealous?
Why yes you are, aren't you?

1345 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:53:41pm

re: #1339 b_sharp

Many more notches down and you'll become a non-entity.

Oh, lord, what shall I do?

1346 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:53:58pm

re: #1336 CapeCoddah

You may, but as I said, I have a life, DF, IW gets zero thought from me. I do not live for any blog.

Not me. I had a dream last night LGF let me ding limitlessly. I downdinged albusteve over and over again. By the time I woke up, his karma matched our national debt. Booya!

1347 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:54:58pm

re: #1342 Rightwingconspirator

Okay so zero thought about Ice and a bunch of posts about Ice. So, no thought per post. Got it.

Here and now, it seems to be the topic. Trust me, I will not be tossing and turning tonight or biting my nails over it tomorrow.

1348 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:55:40pm

re: #1346 cliffster

Not me. I had a dream last night LGF let me ding limitlessly. I downdinged albusteve over and over again. By the time I woke up, his karma matched our national debt. Booya!

over here!...look! a real deranged hater!

1349 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:55:41pm

re: #1341 wozzablog

Only three people agreeing?

I am shocked. Shocked i say.

"ass" is way too kind. Try again.

1350 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:56:10pm

Computer animation of volcanic mudflow at a Filipino volcano in 2006

[Link: www.buffalo.edu...]

Story here.

1351 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:56:11pm

re: #1343 wlewisiii

Then perhaps it's time for you to let it drop? Or is the image in the mirror that you fight so compelling?

Replying to the replies. That is what we do here.

1352 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:56:31pm

re: #1300 Racer X

What about them Lakers, eh?

I am hate filled
/Mavericks devotee

1353 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:56:36pm

re: #1347 CapeCoddah

Okay I'm done on the topic at hand. Anyone else?

1354 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:56:56pm

re: #1348 albusteve

over here!...look! a real deranged hater!

I'll think about you when I'm pulling weeds tomorrow.

1355 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:57:25pm

re: #1337 albusteve

not the one's I've read...seething hatred is way over the top, but hey!...everyone's a hater troll now!

Yeah that's right steve. Imagine thinking that calling someone - with zero justification - a sociopath and a toxic bully - and going on and on ad on about it - in any way denotes hate! How silly///

1356 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:57:26pm

re: #1341 wozzablog

Only three people agreeing?

I am shocked. Shocked i say.

Only three, because you stuck in "often".
// ;) //

1357 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:57:28pm

re: #1344 The Shadow Do

*yawn*

In this debate i have done nothing but try to stand up for people without healthcare or with limited coverage - calling out the CEOS of behind the curve companys responsible for said healthcare who are taking salaries of such magnitude as could be counted in hundreds of lives improved by a more modest recompense is not a selfish act.

But ofcourse - everyone in this world is ultimately selfish - that is the only goal in life, accruing personal wealth, therefore i am like everyone else - right?.

1358 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:57:42pm

re: #1209 CapeCoddah

I never said you bullied me, you could not do it, I would not allow it, or leave because of it. I will hand it right back every time. Actually, I find LGF better, now. There is an actual difference of opinion, and a debate to be had. It is no longer one sided. I am certainly not in a "Rage", and I was not here much when you first got here. Your opinion of yourself is hugely overinflated, which is one of the BIG red flags, whether you realize it or not. I am one of those who is not fooled by you, and never will be. You are a toxic personality who enjoys hurting other people.You are a quintessential school bully, and I will make no apologies for my opinion.

Uhh, what?!?

1359 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:57:54pm

re: #1349 cliffster

If i was a real kharma whore i would..........

1360 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:58:29pm

re: #1359 wozzablog

I'm trying to get you to a 1:1 ratio, but its hard

1361 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:58:40pm

re: #1356 The Sanity Inspector

True. True.

Always would have garnered more agreement - noob mistake, won't happen again.

1362 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:59:31pm

re: #1360 windsagio

I'm that obvious?.........


(and thanks, it helps my self esteem issues)

/

1363 suchislife  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:59:42pm

I would just like to note that this is a flame fight, or a policy/values discussion getting out of hand, or whatever, or a general mood, but instead one single commenter not critizing but attacking iceweasel again and again. I'm really sick of that. And I really don't like that this kind of behavior will just be ignored and forgotten afterwards, there won't be an apology, people will joke with Capecoddah, "no hard feelings, both sides suck, right? I just wish everybody would not fight so much!" This is just not ok. It's not somehow ok to attack Iceweasel just because she can defend herself.

1364 [deleted]  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 7:59:44pm
1365 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:00:13pm

re: #1307 CapeCoddah

I am not a stalker. Go back and take a look at what she did to Sharmuta, for example. As for downdings, I could not care less about them. I have a real life. There are 60 registered users logged on. I am averaging 7 to 10 downdings. That is a LOT of folks keeping silent. I will take that.

Rubbish. Sharmuta attacked iceweasel out of the blue, with no provocation whatsoever, and started downdinging her and sniping at her relentlessly. Iceweasel made repeated overtures to her to contact her and deal with what was clearly a personal issue offline but this was repeatedly refused. Sharm instead continued to snipe, and email other people with lies about 'evil iceweasel'. I was on holiday in Glasgow with iceweasel when it happened.

Eventually, Sharm made the lies that she had been feeding her friends in emails public by posting them on this site, at which point we were compelled to refute them. It was regrettable having to do that, because we had to reveal something that was acutely embarrassing to her - but at that point we had no choice.

1366 suchislife  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:00:20pm

re: #1363 suchislife

obviously I meant this isn't, not this is

1367 Obdicut  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:00:30pm

re: #1358 talon_262

Apparently CapeCoddah has a PhD in interwebs psychology. Oh, an Iceweasel has 'fooled' all the rest of us, but CapeCoddah is so wise and smart they're not fooled by Ice. So, sorry, but it appears if you like Ice, you're just dumb.

1368 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:00:38pm

re: #1364 albusteve


wozzablog

(Logged in)
Registered since: Oct 11, 2009 at 3:52 pm

1369 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:00:41pm

re: #1350 The Sanity Inspector

Computer animation of volcanic mudflow at a Filipino volcano in 2006

[Link: www.buffalo.edu...]

Story here.

...and maybe Charles can fix it so that .mov files will appear inline, if he needs a challenge or anything.

1370 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:00:41pm

re: #1346 cliffster

Not me. I had a dream last night LGF let me ding limitlessly. I downdinged albusteve over and over again. By the time I woke up, his karma matched our national debt. Booya!

Well, I wanted to upding.
BUT.
Albusteve's a good guy!
What you wanna put him out like the national debt for?
He's a new grampy.
With a cute new kiddo.
And, mostly a nice guy.

So, no upding for you!

1371 Obdicut  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:00:44pm

re: #1364 albusteve

The god of irony should reward you for that post, Steve.

1372 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:01:13pm

re: #1246 CapeCoddah

I have seen her debase those who agree with her to an extremely unacceptable level, then continue the antagonism. Sorry, DF, but that is a sign of a serious problem. She enjoys debasing others, and gets a kick from it. Some see it, some do not. Some, I suspect, are afraid to call it. I am not.

OK, that's enough asshole.

You're not some Internet Psychiatrist, you're a wannabe, you have no god given right to abuse anyone like that and your experience being part of a dysfunctional relationship at one time of your life, no matter how bad, is far more likely to fuck you up than give you an ability to 'see' something in someone else. If you have problems dealing with people on the Internet, then get off the Internet. If you imagine you can somehow see psychosis in others over a medium that is as sparse of information about the real person as this blog is, then for your sake get some help.

If you can't discuss another person without being irrational, well then shut the fuck up.

1373 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:01:38pm

re: #1355 Jimmah

Yeah that's right steve. Imagine thinking that calling someone - with zero justification - a sociopath and a toxic bully - and going on and on ad on about it - in any way denotes hate! How silly///

yeah...do you have a hobby?...other than LGF?...you choose to be part of it or not

1374 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:02:22pm

re: #1354 cliffster

I'll think about you when I'm pulling weeds tomorrow.

I've always imagined myself as a thistle

1375 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:02:23pm

I'm just gonna say it looks like Ice is ready to Move One. I am Moving On.
Music Link!
A personal fave of mine.

1376 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:02:32pm

re: #1256 Walter L. Newton

Steve, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, Steve. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, Steve. And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!

I love that cartoon. Even if it is full of neo-conservative crap.

1377 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:03:04pm

PIMF
Ice looks ready to move on not one. Ugh.

1378 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:03:12pm

re: #1367 Obdicut

Apparently CapeCoddah has a PhD in interwebs psychology. Oh, an Iceweasel has 'fooled' all the rest of us, but CapeCoddah is so wise and smart they're not fooled by Ice. So, sorry, but it appears if you like Ice, you're just dumb.

Right. See, the fact that there are people who like me here even though we disagree completely politically, and with whom I get along perfectly fine, is just further proof of how evil I am.

Trickse, trickse lib!

1379 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:03:14pm

re: #1360 windsagio

ooops. missed the second part - you mean i should shut up?

//

1380 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:03:16pm

I just love the pissing matches.
/

1381 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:03:22pm

re: #1370 Floral Giraffe

Well, I wanted to upding.
BUT.
Albusteve's a good guy!
What you wanna put him out like the national debt for?
He's a new grampy.
With a cute new kiddo.
And, mostly a nice guy.

So, no upding for you!

That's right! And I meant to puff a cigar for him today. Maybe I'll go ahead and do it, but it's so late.. don't want to go to bed with a cigar high. Congrats again, a-steve - I'll dream about updinging you tonight.

1382 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:03:40pm

re: #1364 albusteve

I know you're just trolling us, but didn't this come up just the other day, where the few old-time liberals talked about how insanely toxic it was, back in the good ol' days?

1383 Obdicut  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:04:02pm

Well, I'm not in the mood for any of this, so I'm out.

Goodnight, all, hope everyone's evening transforms into a blithe and happy one.

1384 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:04:31pm

re: #1321 prairiefire

You think just like I do and you are a conservative. Wild.

So many distinctions drawn between people are, well, just false distinctions. Good folks are good folks. Don't give a rip about who you vote for or even why - just check them out first...are they good folks - or not?

1385 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:04:31pm

re: #1367 Obdicut

I'm the only doctor of internet psychiatry we need >

1386 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:04:42pm

re: #1363 suchislife

Thank you very, very much for that post.

1387 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:05:04pm

Presidents Kennedy and Johnson touting the benefits of the new Medicare legislation:

1388 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:05:36pm

re: #1386 iceweasel

Its sad because some of us would get shouted down for saying that, its good to have reasonable third parties around >>

1389 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:05:37pm

re: #1314 CapeCoddah

Trust me when I tell you that Ice occupies not even the smallest portion of my mind at any time.

The way you're going on and on about this makes me think you'd be over at Blogmocracy or Correspondence Committee in a shot if ever you were bounced or flounced...you just ain't making a whole lot of sense right now.

1390 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:06:15pm

re: #1375 Rightwingconspirator

I'm just gonna say it looks like Ice is ready to Move One. I am Moving On.
Music Link!
A personal fave of mine.

Hey, that should be "let's all Move On dot org", pal! //

1391 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:06:20pm

re: #1383 Obdicut

Well, I'm not in the mood for any of this, so I'm out.

Goodnight, all, hope everyone's evening transforms into a blithe and happy one.

Maybe the gods of saturday night rain run and ebullience on you

1392 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:06:25pm

I hearby decree that all self-proclaimed "internet psychologists" need a GOOD shrink. And a serious course of at least 52 weeks of head examining. No, not for lice, you fool!
///

1393 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:06:54pm

re: #1391 cliffster

Maybe the gods of saturday night rain run fun and ebullience on you

Fixed it for me

1394 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:07:00pm

re: #1382 windsagio

I know you're just trolling us, but didn't this come up just the other day, where the few old-time liberals talked about how insanely toxic it was, back in the good ol' days?

I gave my opinion...insanely toxic? quite an exaggeration, like 2/3 of most of the bullshit that passes for discourse here...I'm not trolling anybody

1395 Lidane  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:07:10pm

re: #1380 Cannadian Club Akbar

I just love the pissing matches.
/

And I always miss them. By the time I get here, these threads have 1000+ posts and I'm totally lost about what the actual conversation is.

Ah well. C'est la vie, I guess. :)

1396 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:07:39pm

re: #1383 Obdicut

Well, I'm not in the mood for any of this, so I'm out.

Goodnight, all, hope everyone's evening transforms into a blithe and happy one.

Shit Obdi, I was hoping you'd stick around and we could all start talking about HCR or music or anything else.

1397 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:08:24pm

re: #1395 Lidane

And I always miss them. By the time I get here, these threads have 1000+ posts and I'm totally lost about what the actual conversation is.

Ah well. C'est la vie, I guess. :)

Do what I do. Pour a big fuckin' drink and just watch. It's better than TV.:)

1398 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:08:30pm

re: #1395 Lidane

You haven't missed anything.

It's available on instant replay any day ending in Y around here without daddy.

1399 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:08:53pm

re: #1396 iceweasel

Shit Obdi, I was hoping you'd stick around and we could all start talking about HCR or music or anything else.

Ain't a party without Obdi. Shit, dawg, why you gotta bail?

1400 suchislife  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:09:05pm

re: #1386 iceweasel

Well, you know. I do hope I wouldn't let that kind of thing happen to a less fun person, but you do make it easy.

1401 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:09:32pm

Chemical Brothers - Galvanise

1402 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:09:53pm

re: #1394 albusteve

no you totally are, but that's why we love you :D

as to the other thing, look it up. A few people were talking about it yesterday and the day before.

1403 Lidane  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:10:08pm

re: #1397 Cannadian Club Akbar

Do what I do. Pour a big fuckin' drink and just watch. It's better than TV.:)

I might just do that. I didn't have any big plans tonight anyway. Plus, I already have popcorn ready. ;)

1404 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:10:21pm

re: #1397 Cannadian Club Akbar

Do what I do. Pour a big fuckin' drink and just watch. It's better than TV.:)

Almost as good as wrasslin'...

///

1405 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:10:27pm

blog sprogs -

i am off to the land of nod.

laters gaters.

1406 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:11:11pm

Why I Parted Ways With The Right
Opinion %P% Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 6:49:45 pm PST

1. Support for fascists, both in America (see: Pat Buchanan, Robert Stacy McCain, etc.) and in Europe (see: Vlaams Belang, BNP, SIOE, Pat Buchanan, etc.)

2. Support for bigotry, hatred, and white supremacism (see: Pat Buchanan, Ann Coulter, Robert Stacy McCain, Lew Rockwell, etc.)

3. Support for throwing women back into the Dark Ages, and general religious fanaticism (see: Operation Rescue, anti-abortion groups, James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Tony Perkins, the entire religious right, etc.)

4. Support for anti-science bad craziness (see: creationism, climate change denialism, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, James Inhofe, etc.)

5. Support for homophobic bigotry (see: Sarah Palin, Dobson, the entire religious right, etc.)

6. Support for anti-government lunacy (see: tea parties, militias, Fox News, Glenn Beck, etc.)

7. Support for conspiracy theories and hate speech (see: Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Birthers, creationists, climate deniers, etc.)

8. A right-wing blogosphere that is almost universally dominated by raging hate speech (see: Hot Air, Free Republic, Ace of Spades, etc.)

9. Anti-Islamic bigotry that goes far beyond simply criticizing radical Islam, into support for fascism, violence, and genocide (see: Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, etc.)

10. Hatred for President Obama that goes far beyond simply criticizing his policies, into racism, hate speech, and bizarre conspiracy theories (see: witch doctor pictures, tea parties, Birthers, Michelle Malkin, Fox News, World Net Daily, Newsmax, and every other right wing source)

And much, much more. The American right wing has gone off the rails, into the bushes, and off the cliff.

I won’t be going over the cliff with them.

1407 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:12:40pm

re: #1401 Jimmah

Chemical Brothers - Galvanise

Budweiser - Galvanise

1408 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:13:31pm

re: #1402 windsagio

no you totally are, but that's why we love you :D

as to the other thing, look it up. A few people were talking about it yesterday and the day before.

probably people that have not been here long...why the fixation anyway on what was?...you some kinda troll?....do you ever post anything other than your opinion about other people?....a people troll?

1409 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:14:15pm

re: #1406 Gus 802

Yeah, I can't find much fault with that.

1410 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:14:45pm

re: #1406 Gus 802

I didn't leave my righty principles. I don't ebb and flow with popular belief. I don't have polls or any of that bullshit. I have my beliefs and I stick to them. Can you see why I'm not a politician?

1411 keloyd  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:14:53pm

OOOh - There is more speculation about General Petraus running for president. If he waits until 2016, I'm voting for him "early and often*."

*and not for the first time in my family. When my great-grandmother wanted fo vote the first time it was allowed for women, the officials weren't having any of that hippy nonsense...until she told them who she wanted to vote for, then they let her go twice.

1412 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:15:02pm

re: #1395 Lidane

And I always miss them. By the time I get here, these threads have 1000+ posts and I'm totally lost about what the actual conversation is.

Ah well. C'est la vie, I guess. :)

Bunnies.

1413 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:15:35pm

Any gun nuts here tonight? I finally got my first 50 reloads done today. I bought a Lee Loader - that's the simple little kit that only works for one caliber & you use a hammer to get all the bits together (great stress reliever I might add). See the link in my blue name if you want more info. So my usual weekly Monday morning range time will start with those.

.38 special, 125 gr. JFP over 4.5 grains of Universal for those who care. Much cheaper than even the last box of Magtech I bought :)


/hey, it's better than keeping the other thing going... :eek:
William

1414 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:16:11pm

re: #1413 wlewisiii

I fi that description. :)>

1415 Lidane  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:16:33pm

re: #1404 talon_262

Almost as good as wrasslin'...

///

But is it as entertaining as UFC? That's what I want to know. ;)

1416 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:16:59pm

re: #1406 Gus 802

Why I Parted Ways With The Right
Opinion %P% Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 6:49:45 pm PST

1. Support for fascists, both in America (see: Pat Buchanan, Robert Stacy McCain, etc.) and in Europe (see: Vlaams Belang, BNP, SIOE, Pat Buchanan, etc.)

2. Support for bigotry, hatred, and white supremacism (see: Pat Buchanan, Ann Coulter, Robert Stacy McCain, Lew Rockwell, etc.)

3. Support for throwing women back into the Dark Ages, and general religious fanaticism (see: Operation Rescue, anti-abortion groups, James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Tony Perkins, the entire religious right, etc.)

4. Support for anti-science bad craziness (see: creationism, climate change denialism, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, James Inhofe, etc.)

5. Support for homophobic bigotry (see: Sarah Palin, Dobson, the entire religious right, etc.)

6. Support for anti-government lunacy (see: tea parties, militias, Fox News, Glenn Beck, etc.)

7. Support for conspiracy theories and hate speech (see: Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Birthers, creationists, climate deniers, etc.)

8. A right-wing blogosphere that is almost universally dominated by raging hate speech (see: Hot Air, Free Republic, Ace of Spades, etc.)

9. Anti-Islamic bigotry that goes far beyond simply criticizing radical Islam, into support for fascism, violence, and genocide (see: Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, etc.)

10. Hatred for President Obama that goes far beyond simply criticizing his policies, into racism, hate speech, and bizarre conspiracy theories (see: witch doctor pictures, tea parties, Birthers, Michelle Malkin, Fox News, World Net Daily, Newsmax, and every other right wing source)

And much, much more. The American right wing has gone off the rails, into the bushes, and off the cliff.

I won’t be going over the cliff with them.

Shit we just saw in evidence today, with TPers casting slurs at Barney Frank and John Lewis...I'm with Charles, because shit like this is absolutely disgusting and has no place in American politics.

1417 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:17:14pm

re: #1410 Cannadian Club Akbar

I didn't leave my righty principles. I don't ebb and flow with popular belief. I don't have polls or any of that bullshit. I have my beliefs and I stick to them. Can you see why I'm not a politician?

unless you freak out with months of histrionics about the right, you probably are not even a credible voter...cracks me up when people say "I am no longer a conservative!"...haha!

1418 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:18:23pm

re: #1413 wlewisiii

I am not familiar with Universal. Fast powder? We use Winchester 231 for .45 & .40

1419 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:18:31pm

re: #1416 talon_262

Shit we just saw in evidence today, with TPers casting slurs at Barney Frank and John Lewis...I'm with Charles, because shit like this is absolutely disgusting and has no place in American politics.

Today was more craziness on display. I think the Tea Party as a movement is on its way out. Given their behavior and rhetoric. What we saw at the Tea Party convention.

1420 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:18:52pm

re: #1417 albusteve

Declared unto the blogosphere from the mountaintop

1421 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:18:56pm

re: #1418 Rightwingconspirator

Or Supertarget.

1422 DaddyLawBucks  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:19:39pm

Is it true that there is a sex tape with Ann Coulter and Liz Chaney?

1423 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:19:50pm

re: #1420 cliffster

Declared unto the blogosphere from the mountaintop

you did?...I missed it

1424 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:20:18pm

re: #1367 Obdicut

Apparently CapeCoddah has a PhD in interwebs psychology. Oh, an Iceweasel has 'fooled' all the rest of us, but CapeCoddah is so wise and smart they're not fooled by Ice. So, sorry, but it appears if you like Ice, you're just dumb.

Nope, as I said, I have dealt with that personality all too often. Most never see the problem or are afraid to stand up to it. I see it and am not afraid of it. Simple as that. I am also not the only one, by far.

1425 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:20:28pm

re: #1419 Gus 802

Today was more craziness on display. I think the Tea Party as a movement is on its way out. Given their behavior and rhetoric. What we saw at the Tea Party convention.

Damn, I really really hope so. It's been unreal. Just cruised the wingnutsphere and it's like an alternate reality. (even more so than before, that is).

1426 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:21:07pm

re: #1411 keloyd

OOOh - There is more speculation about General Petraus running for president. If he waits until 2016, I'm voting for him "early and often*."

*and not for the first time in my family. When my great-grandmother wanted fo vote the first time it was allowed for women, the officials weren't having any of that hippy nonsense...until she told them who she wanted to vote for, then they let her go twice.

Trivia: Who are the only two Presidents of the 20th Century who graduated from military academies?
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Ike, from West Point.
And Jimmy, from Annapolis.

1427 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:21:10pm

re: #1423 albusteve

you did?...I missed it

Not me. Among other things, I lack the dramaphilia

1428 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:21:23pm

re: #1425 iceweasel

The fade of the fringe will get even stranger as the sensible ascends. I hope!

1429 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:21:46pm

re: #1372 b_sharp

OK, that's enough asshole.

You're not some Internet Psychiatrist, you're a wannabe, you have no god given right to abuse anyone like that and your experience being part of a dysfunctional relationship at one time of your life, no matter how bad, is far more likely to fuck you up than give you an ability to 'see' something in someone else. If you have problems dealing with people on the Internet, then get off the Internet. If you imagine you can somehow see psychosis in others over a medium that is as sparse of information about the real person as this blog is, then for your sake get some help.

If you can't discuss another person without being irrational, well then shut the fuck up.

Not being irrational at all. Just truthful. Dont like it, too bad.

1430 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:22:38pm

Ok folks - I got a plane to catch - see y'all later.

1431 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:22:55pm

re: #1425 iceweasel

Damn, I really really hope so. It's been unreal. Just cruised the wingnutsphere and it's like an alternate reality. (even more so than before, that is).

I'm hoping as well. They'll never make is as a national party as they are now. They're too backwater and far too reactionary and shall we say off.

1432 Aye Pod  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:23:07pm

For my shining light - see you very soon honey :)

1433 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:23:30pm

re: #1389 talon_262

The way you're going on and on about this makes me think you'd be over at Blogmocracy or Correspondence Committee in a shot if ever you were bounced or flounced...you just ain't making a whole lot of sense right now.

Think again. I have no intention of flouncing. No reason for it. No respect for those who have.

1434 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:23:32pm
1435 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:23:47pm

re: #1424 CapeCoddah

Ok, enough with your threadshitting. Take a look over at our stats. At any given moment there are over a thousand people reading here.

They're not coming to read bullshit like what you're spewing.
They're not coming here to read your vindictive and nasty crap aimed at someone you don't even know.

Post something sensible or STFU. If you indeed have anything to contribute, and if indeed you care about LGF at all.

1436 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:23:49pm

re: #1432 Jimmah

For my shining light - see you very soon honey :)


[Video]

Whipped!!!
/

1437 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:24:00pm

re: #1425 iceweasel

Damn, I really really hope so. It's been unreal. Just cruised the wingnutsphere and it's like an alternate reality. (even more so than before, that is).

the theocrats are on the march...and they are picking up steam, the GOP has given them the vehicle and I don't see why the movement would slow or stop....that opportunity was lost months ago...a lot will get sorted out soon come

1438 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:24:10pm

re: #1430 Jimmah

Ok folks - I got a plane to catch - see y'all later.

Good flying!

1439 DaddyLawBucks  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:24:23pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but during the early to mid 1960's didn't we experience an even stronger (and violent) reaction to civil rights progress similar to what we are seeing in opposition to HCR? My thesis is that the same type of people, terrified of change, are having a similar reaction, just less violent this time.

1440 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:24:23pm

re: #1408 albusteve

You've gotta think up a new line of attack man, that one's a dry socket.

1441 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:24:54pm
1442 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:24:57pm

re: #1432 Jimmah

For my shining light - see you very soon honey :)


[Video]

YAY!

1443 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:25:02pm

re: #1418 Rightwingconspirator

I am not familiar with Universal. Fast powder? We use Winchester 231 for .45 & .40

Fairly fast. It's supposed to be a bit more all-around version of Clay's. I was looking for W231 but found that instead. It seems (from the reloading data books) that Universal is good for lower pressure stuff - .38 Special, .45 Colt or ACP but not so much for higher pressure rounds like 9mm or .40.

I'll have to figure a good high pressure powder soon enough as I think my next toy will be a S&W Sigma. Not sure or 9mm or .40 yet - probably 9mm due to the existence of Milsurp hardball.

William

1444 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:25:04pm

re: #1430 Jimmah

Ok folks - I got a plane to catch - see y'all later.

have a safe and uneventful trip bro

1445 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:25:39pm

re: #1440 windsagio

You've gotta think up a new line of attack man, that one's a dry socket.

prove it otherwise...man

1446 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:26:29pm

re: #1422 daddylawbucks

Is it true that there is a sex tape with Ann Coulter and Liz Chaney?

Totally false, the tape I saw was with Anne and Michelle Obama. :-/

1447 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:26:47pm

re: #1427 cliffster

Not me. Among other things, I lack the dramaphilia

you have as much voice as anybody here

1448 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:27:17pm

re: #1439 daddylawbucks

Correct me if I'm wrong, but during the early to mid 1960's didn't we experience an even stronger (and violent) reaction to civil rights progress similar to what we are seeing in opposition to HCR? My thesis is that the same type of people, terrified of change, are having a similar reaction, just less violent this time.

How much money did the gubment steal from people and their employers for civil rights?

1449 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:27:17pm

re: #1430 Jimmah

May your trip be short & painless & easy!

1450 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:27:19pm

re: #1434 Cato the Elder

Racism? Homophobia? Pass the crumpets.

Yup, it's a national story and the culmination of what we've been talking about here on LGF for the past year. It's not just the Tea Parties but it's the GOP and conservatism in general. Embarrassed and disgraced for not cleaning house. Not only are they repeatedly exposed as extremists, idiots and lunatics they also failed to stop reform of the healthcare system. Epic fail. More fails to come. They aren't getting the message yet.

1451 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:27:28pm

re: #1430 Jimmah

Ok folks - I got a plane to catch - see y'all later.

Have a good trip. Don't forget to visit beautiful New Jersey.

1452 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:27:48pm

re: #1447 albusteve

you have as much voice as anybody here

Lick me, New Mexico man

1453 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:28:08pm

re: #1435 iceweasel

Ok, enough with your threadshitting. Take a look over at our stats. At any given moment there are over a thousand people reading here.

They're not coming to read bullshit like what you're spewing.
They're not coming here to read your vindictive and nasty crap aimed at someone you don't even know.

Post something sensible or STFU. If you indeed have anything to contribute, and if indeed you care about LGF at all.

LOL! Dont tell me what to do, say or think...ever.

1454 Escaped Hillbilly  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:28:46pm

re: #1406 Gus 802
This saddens me. We need intelligent and balanced right wingers to swing us back toward a more centrist position. We can't gain balance with the extremists in charge of either (sometimes both) parties.

1455 DaddyLawBucks  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:29:29pm

re: #1448 Cannadian Club Akbar

Actually, I think any economist would tell you that the civil rights act of 1964 was an overall boost to our economy.

1456 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:30:04pm

re: #1443 wlewisiii

I went with Supertarget over 231 for a lower perceived recoil and a cleaner powder. I aim for a power factor high enough for IDPA competition, yet comfortable for those long 300 round plus practice days. I use 231 loads for Steel Challenge, just enough to ring the steel well.

1457 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:30:32pm

1.1 volt battery used for electroplating--2000 years ago. The Baghdad Battery.

1458 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:30:33pm

re: #1452 cliffster

Lick me, New Mexico man

huh?..why do you say that?

1459 windhorse  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:31:01pm

...threadshitting... bullshit... spewing... vindictive... nasty crap....

Come on CapeCoddah, post something sensible.

1460 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:31:29pm

re: #1445 albusteve

I would but the posts are invisible to you anyways.

That's part of the fun tho', its fun watching new people come in, get pissed off at you once or twice, then get clued into your schtick. Its like a rite of passage :D

1461 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:31:35pm

re: #1455 daddylawbucks

Actually, I think any economist would tell you that the civil rights act of 1964 was an overall boost to our economy.

I agree. You said people were afraid of change. The civil rights movement wasn't about the gubment setting legislation to take money away from the tax payer. That was the question.

1462 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:32:23pm

re: #1433 CapeCoddah

Think again. I have no intention of flouncing. No reason for it. No respect for those who have.

Not that I wish you to flounce or get the stick, but I've seen this play before and it's not been pretty. If you don't get along with someone, just ignore them and move on with the program.

/your thoughts betray you...

1463 keloyd  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:32:40pm

re: #1426 The Sanity Inspector

Carter!? Devil his due, he was good at a lot of things before making a pigs breakfast of being president.

We need to go back to the old school - in the Roman republic. I mean the ambitious, plucky republic, not the fat, indulgent, soft, perverted Empire. When they had a war, they routinely lost 1/4 to 1/3 of their senators. Being a leader in government was earned by something like merit. It meant putting your money where your mouth was and leading armies. They didn't put up with that half-arse crap military service that Gore and W got away with due to family connections, or Clinton's manoeuvrings to flee the country"for college".

1464 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:33:03pm

re: #1459 windhorse

...threadshitting... bullshit... spewing... vindictive... nasty crap...

Come on CapeCoddah, post something sensible.

LOL, Pot, meet kettle.
(not you, WH)

1465 Lidane  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:33:15pm

re: #1419 Gus 802

Today was more craziness on display. I think the Tea Party as a movement is on its way out. Given their behavior and rhetoric. What we saw at the Tea Party convention.

I definitely hope so.

Some of the signs on display were bad enough, but the racial slurs and members of Congress being spit on and all that is just beyond uncalled for. Also, someone throwing a brick at Rep. Louise Slaughter's office is way, waaaay out of line.

There's a lot of unhinged anger out there, and very little of it has to do with health care. I refuse to believe that this bill could cause that much rage. It's much deeper and much scarier than all that. I just wish there were elected Republicans out there willing to take these nutjobs on and call them out on crap like that. It would be nice.

1466 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:33:57pm

re: #1463 keloyd

A ding and a bingo.:)

1467 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:35:01pm

re: #1458 albusteve

huh?..why do you say that?

Ha! Sorry, misread what you wrote. Scratch the licking invitation

1468 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:35:02pm

re: #1439 daddylawbucks

Correct me if I'm wrong, but during the early to mid 1960's didn't we experience an even stronger (and violent) reaction to civil rights progress similar to what we are seeing in opposition to HCR? My thesis is that the same type of people, terrified of change, are having a similar reaction, just less violent this time.

You can stand corrected. Not even close. Neither Bush, Sheriff Clark nor Hitler are stand ins for every government initiative one decries. But it is damned easy to do!

1469 DaddyLawBucks  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:35:04pm

re: #1461 Cannadian Club Akbar

I see your point. Fortunately, the reaction to HCR has been non-violent so far, but the level of vitriol is similar. The cost factor is up for debate. In the long run, we probably make money, not lose it, by just giving everyone a health care card. Less days off work, fewer bankruptcy petitions, all that.

1470 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:35:09pm

Never play peek-a-boo with a child on a long plane trip.
There's no end to the game. Finally I grabbed him by the bib and
said, "Look, it's always gonna be me!"
-- Rita Rudner


Though a plane is not the ideal place really to think, to
reassess or reevaluate things, it is a great place to have the
illusion of doing so, and often the illusion with suffice.
-- Shana Alexander

You define a good flight by negatives: you didn't get
hijacked, you didn't crash, you didn't throw up, you weren't late, you
weren't nauseated by the food. So you are grateful.
-- Paul Theroux, _The Old Patagonian Express_, 1979

Air travel shrink-wraps the world leaving it small, odourless,
tidy, and usually out of sight.
-- Michael Palin, _Around the World in 80 Days_, 1989

1471 CapeCoddah  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:35:22pm

re: #1462 talon_262

Not that I wish you to flounce or get the stick, but I've seen this play before and it's not been pretty. If you don't get along with someone, just ignore them and move on with the program.

/your thoughts betray you...

If I get the stick for voicing an opinion about a bully, so be it. I do ignore IW. She replies to me, and baits with it. I will not turn the other cheek for her or anyone else. I slap back.

1472 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:36:52pm

re: #1465 Lidane


There's a lot of unhinged anger out there, and very little of it has to do with health care. I refuse to believe that this bill could cause that much rage. It's much deeper and much scarier than all that. I just wish there were elected Republicans out there willing to take these nutjobs on and call them out on crap like that. It would be nice.

Oh absolutely. I hope this shames some of them at least into calling it out.

"This is incredible," House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-SC) told reporters of the slurs. "It's shocking to me." He said he hadn't heard such vitriol since March 15, 1960 when he was protesting segregation laws that forced him to sit in the back of buses. "A lot of us have been saying for a long time that much of this, much of this, is not about health care at all," Clyburn said. "I think a lot of those people today demonstrated this is not about health care."

Sounds right to me. They're uninformed, bigoted, angry and virulent.

1473 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:37:08pm

re: #1456 Rightwingconspirator

I went with Supertarget over 231 for a lower perceived recoil and a cleaner powder. I aim for a power factor high enough for IDPA competition, yet comfortable for those long 300 round plus practice days. I use 231 loads for Steel Challenge, just enough to ring the steel well.

I'm thinking about getting into IDPA SSR as well (there's a place not too far from here) but for now I'm just interested in a good basic load to get used to reloading & to be able to afford more range time. If I get into that, I intend to load only 158 gr. LSWC to help with the power factor, but for now these will do.

I might add these are for a S&W Model 64 4". Very nice trade in that I got my hands on cheaply.

William

1474 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:37:10pm

There's an ignominy to modern air travel that I'd come to
dread. There's no arousing sense of passage towards your destination:
no slowly changing landscape reaches back along the line of your
motion, adding usefully to an awareness of where you will end up. The
quantitative measure of the distance you are travelling loses all
relevance; miles mean nothing as you leap, in a single stratospheric
bound, across the barriers that have guided, ever since humankind
stood vertical enough to get over them, the very passage of
civilizations.
-- Jason Elliot, _An Unexpected Light: Travels in
Afghanistan_, 2001

1475 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:37:44pm

Kentucky won.
100th tournament win.
They are in their proper place.
All is right with the world....

1476 Lidane  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:38:25pm

re: #1454 Escaped Hillbilly

This saddens me. We need intelligent and balanced right wingers to swing us back toward a more centrist position.

I would love for there to be an intelligent, balanced right wing out there. I'd also love to see a real debate on the issues and a real conversation going on in this country.

However, as long as the right is dominated by carnival barkers like Beck and Limbaugh whipping people into a frenzy like they have over this bill, and as long as we keep seeing the kind of unhinged crazy that the Teabaggers are bringing to the party, we're not going to get anywhere. That's just sad, IMO.

1477 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:38:35pm

re: #1450 Killgore Trout

Yup, it's a national story and the culmination of what we've been talking about here on LGF for the past year. It's not just the Tea Parties but it's the GOP and conservatism in general. Embarrassed and disgraced for not cleaning house. Not only are they repeatedly exposed as extremists, idiots and lunatics they also failed to stop reform of the healthcare system. Epic fail. More fails to come. They aren't getting the message yet.

there has always been closet revolutionaries, bigots, racists etc...they are out there and they never much bothered me...like I said all last year, wait and see what shakes out...well what shook out is the astounding degree of credibility the GOP has given the kooks, and that cred had blended into a party doctrine of sorts...I keep falling back to the next line of defense, how much of this shit is the gen pop gonna swallow?...and there again we will see some smoke clear this next cycle...conservatism is less about politics than lifestyle, or equal to anyway...I still think it's a reach to say that conservatives embrace bigotry and racism on principle even tho the GOP has...it's good to not be a republican...it's interesting and I for one do not see the demise of the theocrats anytime soon

1478 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:39:13pm

re: #1469 daddylawbucks

OK. I think we are on the same page. The problem I see is this: I don't need lawyers (no offense if you are one) writing legislation dealing in economics. You get me Dr. Thomas Sowell agreeing, or any of other economist, and I'm there. Not career politicians. I fuckin' know more than they do.

1479 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:39:13pm

re: #1473 wlewisiii

Looks like an excellent start. IDPA is great fun. Really sharpened us up. Safe and challenging.

1480 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:39:21pm

re: #1475 webevintage

Kentucky won.
100th tournament win.
They are in their proper place.
All is right with the world...

My only hope each year is for an all-ACC Final Four. Gets less likely with every passing decade, it seems.

1481 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:39:32pm

re: #1467 cliffster

Ha! Sorry, misread what you wrote. Scratch the licking invitation

NO!

1482 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:39:39pm

re: #1463 keloyd

We need to go back to the old school - in the Roman republic.

You're either insane, or drunk, or somewhat underinformed about the Roman republic.

1483 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:39:40pm

re: #1472 iceweasel

Sounds right to me. They're uninformed, bigoted, angry and virulent.

The civil rights protests were the first thing that came to my mind when I read what went on today.

1484 DaddyLawBucks  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:39:55pm

re: #1468 The Shadow Do

hang on, I was saying the reaction in the 1960's was stronger and more violent. Do you disagree with that?

1485 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:39:58pm

re: #1472 iceweasel

Sounds right to me. They're uninformed, bigoted, angry and virulent.

From one of the articles up thread.

"Any movement in which the intellectual leader is Michele Bachmann is obviously going to be problematic.” - Barney Frank

lol

1486 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:40:00pm

re: #1465 Lidane

I definitely hope so.

Some of the signs on display were bad enough, but the racial slurs and members of Congress being spit on and all that is just beyond uncalled for. Also, someone throwing a brick at Rep. Louise Slaughter's office is way, waaay out of line.

There's a lot of unhinged anger out there, and very little of it has to do with health care. I refuse to believe that this bill could cause that much rage. It's much deeper and much scarier than all that. I just wish there were elected Republicans out there willing to take these nutjobs on and call them out on crap like that. It would be nice.

Regardless of how the health care legislation is voted on once that passes the Tea Party will largely go extent. Their only other platform that may be relevant is taxation and/or spending. However, if we disregard their shall we say, moral deficiencies they have nothing. They have zero credibility with foreign policy, the environment, transportation, military, education, etc. They are for the most party a single issue organization.

1487 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:40:25pm

re: #1475 webevintage

Kentucky won.
100th tournament win.
They are in their proper place.
All is right with the world...

Wisconsin is going to kick their asses. Hell, Cornell will if needs be.

1488 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:40:46pm

re: #1475 webevintage

Kentucky won.
100th tournament win.
They are in their proper place.
All is right with the world...

They will win it all. so it is written, so it shall be.
/bastids

1489 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:40:59pm

re: #1429 CapeCoddah

Not being irrational at all. Just truthful. Dont like it, too bad.

1490 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:41:17pm

re: #1484 daddylawbucks

hang on, I was saying the reaction in the 1960's was stronger and more violent. Do you disagree with that?

Was that the Chicago 8? (I was born in '67)

1491 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:41:23pm

re: #1486 Gus 802

Regardless of how the health care legislation is voted on once that passes the Tea Party will largely go extent. Their only other platform that may be relevant is taxation and/or spending. However, if we disregard their shall we say, moral deficiencies they have nothing. They have zero credibility with foreign policy, the environment, transportation, military, education, etc. They are for the most party a single issue organization.

From your lips to the voters ears!

1492 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:41:26pm

re: #1271 The Sanity Inspector

Would you mind expanding on that thought?

Holy shit, you're asking for my hypotheses on human group dynamics, evolutionarily stable strategies, development of moral convention and the impact of game theory on social groups larger than optimum.

That could be a really long post.

I suspect it will have to be my next blog post.

There is an unspoken agreement within social groups that can be summarized as 'you watch my back and I'll watch yours but if you fail to watch my back or just happen to put a knife into it, I or my kin will take revenge, not just on you but your family. I will also keep a tally of how well you hold up your end of the bargain and I expect you will do the same, so as long as the ratio of favours asked to favours performed stays balanced, we'll live together with a modicum of friction.

Our current social groups are too large for this kind of personal bookkeeping, so we write laws and develop systems, like governments, NGOs, charities and such to keep track of the 'who owes who' and to try to balance inequities.

In the small groups we developed in, usually less than ~100 members and most likely around ~40, any breaking of the contract resulted in almost instantaneous and frequently violent, or costly in some other way, resolution. In large groups the resolution can be so slow, it is almost non-existent, so many ignore it and believe the contract doesn't exist. Unfortunately for some, even though it can take a long time, it still ends in costly outcomes, just ask Marie Antoinette, Louis XVI, and the Russian Tsarist autocracy.

BTW, we still deal with small groups which we tend to matryoshka doll, one group nests within a larger group, so our bookkeeping is made simpler. We deal with our immediate family directly, but in the larger neighbourhood we deal with other family groups rather than the individuals. It just expands outward, with each layer being slightly more removed and less important to us. We protect our family against all others, even close friends. We protect our close friends against all others, except our family. And so on.

Anyway, that is the very short and simple version of my hypotheses. Sort of.

1493 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:42:14pm

Back in the thirties we were told we must collectivize the nation because the people were so poor. Now (the late 60s) we are told we must collectivize the nation because the people are so rich.
--William F. Buckley Jr.

1494 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:42:21pm

re: #1272 CapeCoddah

Please show me where I said I hated you. I simply said I see right thru you, and I know what you are. I am less than impressed. I also know how folks with your personality handles opinions like that. You detest anyone who sees the truth.

For your own sake, shut up about this.
Take a break.

1495 Bob Dillon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:42:33pm

re: #12 Guanxi88

...biggest deficit reduction measure in history

...put us on the path to fiscal responsibility

Let's hope he's right.

We have 8 toll bridges in the SF Bay Area and are gearing up for the 4th bore on the Caldecott Tunnel complex.

I'm handling all the sales for options or outright ownership. Your pick.

While some parts of the bill are good, I can't believe the rhetoric.

1496 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:42:33pm

re: #1487 cliffster

Wisconsin is going to kick their asses. Hell, Cornell will if needs be.

Nevah.
Muhwahahahahahaha

1497 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:42:45pm

re: #1475 webevintage

Kentucky won.
100th tournament win.
They are in their proper place.
All is right with the world...

UNM got clobbered by UW...no NM team has ever moved past the first round, but ironically we put both universities into the dance...there are fewer people in NM than Boston, and for that alone we deserve some credit imo

1498 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:43:04pm

re: #1476 Lidane

I would love for there to be an intelligent, balanced right wing out there. I'd also love to see a real debate on the issues and a real conversation going on in this country.


Huh? You talkin to me, you talkin to me!?...

1499 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:43:32pm

re: #1485 marjoriemoon

Michelle Bachman is not bright. On the other hand Captain Obvious Barney Frank is the guy who said this:

WASHINGTON -- House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank said the first priority in overhauling financial regulation is to set up an entity to oversee systemic risks of the kind that walloped Wall Street last year.[Link: online.wsj.com...]


No kidding.

1500 DaddyLawBucks  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:43:39pm

re: #1490 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes, among lots of others, mostly on the anti side, there were a lot of murders down south.

1501 keloyd  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:44:01pm

re: #1482 negativ

You're either insane, or drunk, or somewhat underinformed about the Roman republic.

I'm not completely sober, but correct me where I'm wrong about the pre-Julius-Caesar republic. I mean the era when they were still going after the Etruscans and Greeks to get the whole Boot to themselves.

1502 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:44:15pm

GO JAYHAWKS!!! Wait, what?

1503 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:44:26pm

re: #1488 The Shadow Do

They will win it all. so it is written, so it shall be.

So say we all.

1504 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:44:32pm

re: #1492 b_sharp

Okay, I've bookmarked your blog. You may expound at your leisure, and I'll read it at mine.

1505 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:45:11pm

re: #1499 jaunte

Michelle Bachman is not bright. On the other hand Captain Obvious Barney Frank is the guy who said this:

No kidding.

The article says it was proposed by the Bush admin last year.

1506 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:45:27pm

re: #1496 webevintage

Nevah.
Muhwahahahahahaha

Wake Forest beat my Longhorns. Why? TX-player-who-will-not-be-named missed like 6 out of 7 free throws at the end of the game. Glad you took WF down - they didn't deserve to be in the second round. Neither did TX, of course.

1507 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:45:34pm

re: #1499 jaunte

Michelle Bachman is not bright. On the other hand Captain Obvious Barney Frank is the guy who said this:


No kidding.

Barney Frank should at the very least get kicked out of public office. He and Chris Dodd. Talk about total mismanagement and dereliction of duty. Those two clowns are the epitome of inept.

1508 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:45:44pm

re: #1483 webevintage

The civil rights protests were the first thing that came to my mind when I read what went on today.

the Civil Rights Movement was an astounding chapter in American, even world history....very little detail is taught in the public schools...in a few short decades, most of it has been lost

1509 The Shadow Do  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:45:55pm

re: #1484 daddylawbucks

hang on, I was saying the reaction in the 1960's was stronger and more violent. Do you disagree with that?

A whole 'nother deal. Trust me on that one.

1510 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:46:00pm

re: #1483 webevintage

The civil rights protests were the first thing that came to my mind when I read what went on today.

Yes, me too. Truly demented people. I still can't get over it. To have this kind of rage and acting out over health care.
Of course, it's enacted by the first black POTUS; there is no doubt as we all know that racist sentiment is also fueling what we've been seeing.

1511 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:46:06pm

If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is certain that you will create a despotic government to be your master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual.
-- Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment

1512 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:46:15pm

re: #1499 jaunte

Michelle Bachman is not bright. On the other hand Captain Obvious Barney Frank is the guy who said this:


No kidding.

What's wrong with that?

1513 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:46:27pm

re: #1500 daddylawbucks

Yes, among lots of others, mostly on the anti side, there were a lot of murders down south.

I'm from the south. Don't be fooled by my nic.:)

1514 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:46:37pm

re: #1411 keloyd

OOOh - There is more speculation about General Petraus running for president. If he waits until 2016, I'm voting for him "early and often*."

*and not for the first time in my family. When my great-grandmother wanted fo vote the first time it was allowed for women, the officials weren't having any of that hippy nonsense...until she told them who she wanted to vote for, then they let her go twice.

Your great-grandmother lived in Chicago?

//

1515 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:46:58pm

re: #1486 Gus 802

Regardless of how the health care legislation is voted on once that passes the Tea Party will largely go extent. Their only other platform that may be relevant is taxation and/or spending. However, if we disregard their shall we say, moral deficiencies they have nothing. They have zero credibility with foreign policy, the environment, transportation, military, education, etc. They are for the most party a single issue organization.

they will morph...bet me

1516 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:47:11pm

Grilled Halibut
Grilled asparagus
Broiled tomato with parmesan
Raspberry Lambic

Dinner was really good!

1517 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:47:24pm

re: #1493 The Sanity Inspector

Back in the thirties we were told we must collectivize the nation because the people were so poor. Now (the late 60s) we are told we must collectivize the nation because the people are so rich.
--William F. Buckley Jr.

nice

1518 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:47:46pm

re: #1516 Racer X

Grilled Halibut
Grilled asparagus
Broiled tomato with parmesan
Raspberry Lambic

Dinner was really good!

Sauce for da fish?

1519 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:47:48pm

re: #1505 marjoriemoon

I think any government regulators will have a hard time staying ahead of the financial innovators they're trying to regulate.

1520 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:47:54pm

re: #1502 Cannadian Club Akbar

GO JAYHAWKS!!! Wait, what?

hahahaha... oopsie

1521 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:48:09pm

re: #1515 albusteve

they will morph...bet me

Hmm, yeah. Just slapped my forehead. I forgot about immigration reform.

[sigh]

1522 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:48:22pm

re: #1516 Racer X

Grilled Halibut
Grilled asparagus
Broiled tomato with parmesan
Raspberry Lambic

Dinner was really good!

Did you use salt? /menacing pc glare/

1523 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:48:38pm

re: #1507 Racer X

Barney Frank should at the very least get kicked out of public office. He and Chris Dodd. Talk about total mismanagement and dereliction of duty. Those two clowns are the epitome of inept.

agreed...Dodd is very likely a felon

1524 keloyd  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:49:02pm

re: #1482 negativ

You're either insane, or drunk, or somewhat underinformed about the Roman republic.

AND when I said 'be like Rome' my only point was get more pols with a proper military background, and I want President Petreus in 2016. I don't mean some trustafarian who's powerful family got them to serve the Viet Nam War doing something plushy, I mean career military guys retiring from active service to serve in politics.

Really, nothing else about ancient Rome is that much of a good example for us anymore, just the pols having skin in the game part.

1525 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:49:06pm

re: #1507 Racer X

Barney Frank should at the very least get kicked out of public office. He and Chris Dodd. Talk about total mismanagement and dereliction of duty. Those two clowns are the epitome of inept.

Chris Dodd isn't even running for reelection. I forget the Dem. who is running to replace him but he's really popular and has the election all but locked up. He's the state atty. general or lt. gov. or something like that.

1526 Cato the Elder  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:49:15pm

re: #1501 keloyd

I'm not completely sober, but correct me where I'm wrong about the pre-Julius-Caesar republic. I mean the era when they were still going after the Etruscans and Greeks to get the whole Boot to themselves.

You're right. In the early days, the patrician class either went to the wars themselves, or if too old sent their sons.

Later, under the Empire (which America is in all but name now), they hired substitutes, or sent armies of teutones to fight instead of Romans. When the German tribes finally turned their attention to Rome itself, there was nothing and no one to stand in their way.

1527 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:50:10pm

re: #1515 albusteve

they will morph...bet me

It will come back twice as bad if/when immigration reform hits the table.

1528 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:50:16pm

re: #1512 Conservative Moonbat

What's wrong with that?

It's one of the functions of he House Financial Services Committee.

1529 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:50:44pm

re: #1517 cliffster

nice

Back when our car was speeding downhill, we were told we must put on the brakes. But now that our car is chugging slowly uphill, we are told we must put on the gas.
-- Jethro Q. Walrustitty Jr.

1530 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:50:44pm

re: #1486 Gus 802

Regardless of how the health care legislation is voted on once that passes the Tea Party will largely go extent. Their only other platform that may be relevant is taxation and/or spending. However, if we disregard their shall we say, moral deficiencies they have nothing. They have zero credibility with foreign policy, the environment, transportation, military, education, etc. They are for the most party a single issue organization.

They will be used by politicians hoping to surf on their wave to greater power, and then dumped. Just like the New Right was in the 80s.

1531 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:50:51pm

re: #1507 Racer X

Barney Frank should at the very least get kicked out of public office. He and Chris Dodd. Talk about total mismanagement and dereliction of duty. Those two clowns are the epitome of inept.

Quite Concur.

1532 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:50:51pm

re: #1516 Racer X

Grilled Halibut
Grilled asparagus
Broiled tomato with parmesan
Raspberry Lambic

Dinner was really good!

Yummy.

Last night we had take out from a local gyros/pizza place and I had spanakopita. It was so good I decided to try my hand it tonight.
Turned out pretty good for my first time.
Theirs was creamier, I think they put their tzatziki sauce in the spinach/ricotta/feta mix.

1533 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:50:58pm

re: #1526 Cato the Elder

Cato should know, he was there.

1534 Racer X  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:51:08pm

re: #1518 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sauce for da fish?

Marinated in honey, garlic, balsamic vinegar, olive oil, soy sauce. Reduced the remaining marinade down to a glaze. My wife is the best!

1535 keloyd  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:51:09pm

re: #1514 Dark_Falcon

Your great-grandmother lived in Chicago?

//

Nah, Texas. She also rose from the grave to vote for LBJ, with the same green pen and handwriting, in alphabetical order, as many other ghosts, wraiths, banshees, and assorted phantasms.

1536 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:51:16pm

re: #1521 Gus 802

Hmm, yeah. Just slapped my forehead. I forgot about immigration reform.

[sigh]

the kooks have one quality that will fuel their continuation...arrogance, and it's NOT all about HCR...per Iceweasle

1537 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:51:17pm

re: #1528 jaunte

It's one of the functions of he House Financial Services Committee.

Can we form a committee to see how the gubment is spending our money?

1538 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:51:25pm

re: #1396 iceweasel

Shit Obdi, I was hoping you'd stick around and we could all start talking about HCR or music or anything else.

Anything else.

How about chocolate.

1539 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:52:20pm

re: #1532 webevintage

Yummy.

Last night we had take out from a local gyros/pizza place and I had spanakopita. It was so good I decided to try my hand it tonight.
Turned out pretty good for my first time.
Theirs was creamier, I think they put their tzatziki sauce in the spinach/ricotta/feta mix.

Try sour cream.

1540 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:53:21pm

re: #1538 b_sharp

Anything else.

How about chocolate.

Chocolate: discuss.
I like it!
Food posts and music are usually something people can agree on...

1541 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:53:26pm

re: #1413 wlewisiii

Any gun nuts here tonight? I finally got my first 50 reloads done today. I bought a Lee Loader - that's the simple little kit that only works for one caliber & you use a hammer to get all the bits together (great stress reliever I might add). See the link in my blue name if you want more info. So my usual weekly Monday morning range time will start with those.

.38 special, 125 gr. JFP over 4.5 grains of Universal for those who care. Much cheaper than even the last box of Magtech I bought :)

/hey, it's better than keeping the other thing going... :eek:
William

I gotta question for the reloaders here. What takes the place of lead shot, is it stainless steel or something else?

1542 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:53:36pm

re: #1534 Racer X

Marinated in honey, garlic, balsamic vinegar, olive oil, soy sauce. Reduced the remaining marinade down to a glaze. My wife is the best!

I'm moving in. Got room for a Foosball table?
/

1543 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:53:54pm

re: #1519 jaunte

I think any government regulators will have a hard time staying ahead of the financial innovators they're trying to regulate.

I don't know. Doesn't sound so bad to me, but then again, I'm just one of those intelligent, politically savvy, argumentative liberal females with an overly inflated ego [i.e. know-it-all] you've heard tell about.

1544 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:54:04pm

re: #1533 cliffster

Cato should know, he was there.

cruisin the Via Appia in his Linc

1545 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:54:50pm

re: #1543 marjoriemoon

I don't know. Doesn't sound so bad to me, but then again, I'm just one of those intelligent, politically savvy, argumentative liberal females with an overly inflated ego [i.e. know-it-all] you've heard tell about.

Represent!

1546 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:55:44pm

re: #1539 Cannadian Club Akbar

Try sour cream.

Thanks, I will.
It is bothering me now, so I'm gonna pull some of the mix out of the crust and mix it with various things to see what will give me the proper taste I want.

1547 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:55:50pm

re: #1537 Cannadian Club Akbar

Can we form a committee to see how the gubment is spending our money?

Sure. It is called the "Federal We Don't Give A Shit If You Know Where We Are Spending Your Money Subcommittee On Things Transparent That You Didn't Know Existed and Even If You Knew We Wouldn't Give A Flying Fig".

or the

FWDGASIYKWWASYMSOTTTYDKEAEIYKWWGAFF.

1548 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:56:34pm

I grew up in Milwaukee, WI..... there were two places that will always stand out clearly about Milwaukee.... the Ambrosia Chocolate factory, and the Red Star Yeast factory....

1549 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:56:41pm

re: #1543 marjoriemoon

I don't know. Doesn't sound so bad to me, but then again, I'm just one of those intelligent, politically savvy, argumentative liberal females with an overly inflated ego [i.e. know-it-all] you've heard tell about.

I've heard of you...

1550 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:56:48pm

re: #1463 keloyd

Carter!? Devil his due, he was good at a lot of things before making a pigs breakfast of being president.

It was the butt of many a joke at the time, but he really did deserve to have that nuclear submarine named after him. Also, as a failed President first and a humanitarian later, he was Herbert Hoover in reverse.

After American Relief Administration extended its operations into Russia and then into Ukraine, a joke went the rounds among the Jews of Kiev: ARA stood for "Amerike Ratevet Aleman"--"America Rescues Everyone".

1551 webevintage  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:56:49pm

re: #1540 iceweasel

Chocolate: discuss.
I like it!
Food posts and music are usually something people can agree on...

mmmmmmm, chocolate....
(done in my homer simpson voice)

1552 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:56:57pm

re: #1548 WindHorse

I grew up in Milwaukee, WI... there were two places that will always stand out clearly about Milwaukee... the Ambrosia Chocolate factory, and the Red Star Yeast factory...

What? Not Summerfest?

1553 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:57:22pm

re: #1537 Cannadian Club Akbar

Can we form a committee to see how the gubment is spending our money?

that's what the CBO is for to some extent...of course they work for congress

1554 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:57:48pm

re: #1544 albusteve

cruisin the Via Appia in his Linc

Cruisin' down the viae in my 6 - 4
Jockeyin' the bitches
Slapping the ho's

damn, that's the sweetest EZE reference ever

1555 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:58:13pm

re: #1548 WindHorse

I grew up in Milwaukee, WI... there were two places that will always stand out clearly about Milwaukee... the Ambrosia Chocolate factory, and the Red Star Yeast factory...

Really? I think of Dahmer and Laverne and Shirley.

1556 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:58:13pm

re: #1552 marjoriemoon

What? Not Summerfest?

really...what a gig!....yowza!

1557 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:58:17pm

re: #1524 keloyd

AND when I said 'be like Rome' my only point was get more pols with a proper military background, and I want President Petreus in 2016. I don't mean some trustafarian who's powerful family got them to serve the Viet Nam War doing something plushy, I mean career military guys retiring from active service to serve in politics.

Really, nothing else about ancient Rome is that much of a good example for us anymore, just the pols having skin in the game part.

Eh, I'm sorry, we (as a nation) got lucky that our first president did believe in the Cincinnatus myth. We Could Never Be So Lucky Again to riff off of Jimmy Doolittle.

Now, this old leftist veteran does think that there needs to be public service if you want the right to vote - rather like Bob Heinlein in Starship Troopers thought not exclusively military service. But just assuming that having being a general is enough? I don't think so. Even then, I'd slightly prefer Wes Clark in the role.

William

1558 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:58:29pm

re: #1543 marjoriemoon

Upding for that! I just get impatient with the regular announcements of special committees to save us from the last unforeseen disaster.

1559 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:58:36pm

re: #1552 marjoriemoon

I never spent summers in Milwaukee and never made it to Summerfest. I hear it is a good time though....

1560 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:58:40pm

re: #1553 albusteve

that's what the CBO is for to some extent...of course they work for congress

But, but, none partisans!!!!

1561 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:59:00pm

re: #1554 cliffster

Cruisin' down the viae in my 6 - 4
Jockeyin' the bitches
Slapping the ho's

damn, that's the sweetest EZE reference ever

cow horns on the grill....

1562 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 8:59:14pm

re: #1495 Bobibutu

We have 8 toll bridges in the SF Bay Area and are gearing up for the 4th bore on the Caldecott Tunnel complex.

I'm handling all the sales for options or outright ownership. Your pick.

While some parts of the bill are good, I can't believe the rhetoric.

Why does SF need Troll bridges?

1563 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:00:12pm

re: #1562 b_sharp

Why does SF need Troll bridges?

To support "shooting galleries."

1564 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:00:43pm

I also remember a couple of St Paddy's Days in Oshkosh.... anyone been there recently? (rumor had it that THAT was the place to be on St. Patrick's Day....) I always wondered how it rated.... I can tell you that I remember a few things - but not many

;)

1565 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:01:36pm

re: #1504 The Sanity Inspector

Okay, I've bookmarked your blog. You may expound at your leisure, and I'll read it at mine.

So you're going to hold me to it are you? And here I thought I could sneak away unscathed.

It will take a while, my thoughts are a bit messed up and need some rearrangement. Re-filing might be a better word.

1566 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:02:23pm

re: #1543 marjoriemoon

I don't know. Doesn't sound so bad to me, but then again, I'm just one of those intelligent, politically savvy, argumentative liberal females with an overly inflated ego [i.e. know-it-all] you've heard tell about.

Stop women's suffrage!! Why do we allow women to suffer?? Stop it now!

1567 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:02:26pm

re: #1541 b_sharp

I gotta question for the reloaders here. What takes the place of lead shot, is it stainless steel or something else?

Depends. There are a number of non-toxic lead substitutes out there in shotgun shells. Steel is the cheapest but can be hard on the barrels. Realistically, it's cheaper to buy than reload those rounds though.

Now, if you're talking about California & it's latest eco move against any lead in ammuntion, that's a whole different game.

William

1568 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:03:09pm

re: #1565 b_sharp

So you're going to hold me to it are you? And here I thought I could sneak away unscathed.

It will take a while, my thoughts are a bit messed up and need some rearrangement. Re-filing might be a better word.

I thought you did a damn good job as it was, but I wanna see the blog post. Esp game theory, etc. Although I'm not up to that convo right now, I'm afraid. Too hyper w/J's flight and all!

1569 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:03:11pm

re: #1516 Racer X

Grilled Halibut
Grilled asparagus
Broiled tomato with parmesan
Raspberry Lambic

Dinner was really good!

I'm going to go grab a bowl of cherrios. It's too late for more pizza.

1570 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:03:16pm

re: #1566 cliffster

Stop women's suffrage!! Why do we allow women to suffer?? Stop it now!

Fine!! Just don't let 'em drive!!
/

1571 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:03:18pm

re: #1556 albusteve

really...what a gig!...yowza!

I saw David Cassidy there when I was 12. My parents took me :) I guess it was my first concert, come to think of it.

Anyway, he came out in a white jumpsuit that was fairly popular in the day. He stood with his back to the audience singing "I think I love you" and shaking his fanny through the whole song. People began yelling at him to turn around. When he wouldn't, they started lobbing mud balls at him (summer rain in Milwaukee can make a field mighty dirty). When he got hit by one, he stopped singing, turned around (finally!) and shouted, "I'm never coming back to Milwaukee again!" and left the stage.

In better news, a couple years later, the Beach Boys sang "409" to my g/f for her birthday. Much better concert.

1572 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:03:53pm

re: #1508 albusteve


It's been distilled into class discussion on Martin Luther King day. They do discuss it, in the general frame of ref. of MLK's accomplishments. I would like to see more about the cold war and civil rights issues in the upper grades.

1573 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:04:01pm

re: #1558 jaunte

Upding for that! I just get impatient with the regular announcements of special committees to save us from the last unforeseen disaster.

hehe I was going to say it's a Dem thing, but Bush wanted to do it also.

1574 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:04:06pm

re: #1557 wlewisiii

[...]
Now, this old leftist veteran does think that there needs to be public service if you want the right to vote [...]

William

Respectfully disagree, for the same reason that I presume you would object to being required to sign a loyalty oath before registering to vote.

1575 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:04:13pm

re: #1562 b_sharp

Why does SF need Troll bridges?

Because it takes an awful lot of trolls to provide a feast for a city that size.

1576 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:04:54pm

re: #1559 WindHorse

I never spent summers in Milwaukee and never made it to Summerfest. I hear it is a good time though...

I guess the big draw is the beer gardens, but they always had popular headliners. I can't imagine what it costs today. Also the arts and crafts stuff was a bunch of fun.

1577 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:05:32pm

re: #1565 b_sharp

So you're going to hold me to it are you? And here I thought I could sneak away unscathed.

It will take a while, my thoughts are a bit messed up and need some rearrangement. Re-filing might be a better word.

I won't tolerate a cloud of sociological squid ink. This will be on the test!

Remember, if you have an idea but you can't express it, you don't really have an idea.

1578 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:05:47pm

re: #1564 WindHorse

The secret to St. Patrick's Day.

You took your own party? You had a great time? You got amnesia drunk?

If you said yes? Then. yes. You had the perfect St. Paddy's day.

1579 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:06:03pm

re: #1566 cliffster

Stop women's suffrage!! Why do we allow women to suffer?? Stop it now!

Unfortunately, I've seen the video.

1580 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:06:08pm

re: #1541 b_sharp

I gotta question for the reloaders here. What takes the place of lead shot, is it stainless steel or something else?

Just plain old iron shot (steel), and the softer the grade the better. Stainless steel shot would eat out the inside of your barrel, since it is harder than than the steel used in casting it. Recently some companies have started promoting shot made of Bismuth which is heavier than iron and more closely approximates the shot patterns and throw that you could get with lead shot.

When people say "steel shot" they don't actually mean steel, it is actually iron shot, and definitely not stainless steel.

1581 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:07:24pm

re: #1571 marjoriemoon

He

1. Didn't know what he was up against.
2. Didn't know what it was all about
3. Had so much to think about...

1582 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:07:24pm

re: #1574 The Sanity Inspector

Respectfully disagree, for the same reason that I presume you would object to being required to sign a loyalty oath before registering to vote.

Understood & updinged. It's a kneejerk though that I get sometimes...

William

1583 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:08:17pm

it's that time...what's shakin in Tennessee?

1584 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:08:40pm

re: #1581 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He

1. Didn't know what he was up against.
2. Didn't know what it was all about
3. Had so much to think about...

4. Was on coke.

1585 keloyd  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:09:26pm

I agree unreservedly that voters with 'skin in the game' are better voters. Being a veteran, owning property, literacy - good voters need all that to make altruistic and well-informed decisions. We should have restrictions of all kinds on the condition that they didn't get used to "gerrymander" the electorate...like it has every time, every place before.

I'm fine with 18 year olds voting because even though 9 out of 10 are pathetically ignorant, they don't bother voting, so no harm no foul.

1586 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:10:10pm

re: #1584 Cannadian Club Akbar

4. Was on coke.

Could have been LCD, also.

1587 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:10:43pm

re: #1585 keloyd

I agree unreservedly that voters with 'skin in the game' are better voters. Being a veteran, owning property, literacy - good voters need all that to make altruistic and well-informed decisions. We should have restrictions of all kinds on the condition that they didn't get used to "gerrymander" the electorate...like it has every time, every place before.

I'm fine with 18 year olds voting because even though 9 out of 10 are pathetically ignorant, they don't bother voting, so no harm no foul.

And I am fine with a person under the age of 21 with a military ID having a beer.

1588 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:11:00pm

re: #1540 iceweasel

Chocolate: discuss.
I like it!
Food posts and music are usually something people can agree on...

You always hear that women really, really like chocolate, they sometimes prefer it over sex.

Now, I'm a normal guy, I'm 6', 220lb, intelligent (I think), fair looking, used to be in martial arts, have fired a gun or two, but I think I'm a pansy when it comes to chocolate. I'm addicted to the stuff. I eat a bar just about every day (part of why I'm 220lb).

Doctor, please tell me, is there something wrong with me. Is chocolate my attempt to release my inner woman? Should I try on my wife's undies? Or should I put chocolate in her undies?

Confused.

1589 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:11:04pm

re: #1579 marjoriemoon

Unfortunately, I've seen the video.

I figured everyone has at this point. That's why I didn't bother digging it up.

1590 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:11:06pm

re: #1585 keloyd

I agree unreservedly that voters with 'skin in the game' are better voters. Being a veteran, owning property, literacy - good voters need all that to make altruistic and well-informed decisions. We should have restrictions of all kinds on the condition that they didn't get used to "gerrymander" the electorate...like it has every time, every place before.

I'm fine with 18 year olds voting because even though 9 out of 10 are pathetically ignorant, they don't bother voting, so no harm no foul.

I voted when I was 18, but I was the one who was not ignorant.

1591 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:11:06pm

re: #1586 Dark_Falcon

He was a big liquid crystal diode user.

1592 WindHorse  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:11:10pm

re: #1578 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I remember one party..... in a very old, large (3 or 4 story) typical old house where a bunch of college kids shared housing. Anyhow, there were probably a couple of hundred people in this house.... music blaring. There was a guy sitting on a radiator in the living room and there were so many people dancing there in the living room (wood floors, furniture removed) that the floor was deflecting to the beat and the poor guy on the radiator was bouncing around so much that every time he tried taking a drink out of his beer cup, it would spill all over him.

When we left that party a little later, there were about a half dozen youths that had climbed up on scaffolding that was situated on one side of the house (the owner was in the middle of getting his house sided in Aluminum siding). Anyway, the workmen had left there tools out and these guys were up there with hammers and screw drivers trashing the siding (putting holes in it.)

1593 keloyd  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:11:58pm

re: #1587 Cannadian Club Akbar

And I am fine with a person under the age of 21 with a military ID having a beer.

When I was under 21, Texas allowed that exception, but no one could make that fake ID. I loves me some Texas.

1594 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:12:05pm

re: #1586 Dark_Falcon

Could have been LCD, also.

LDS

1595 Gus  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:12:35pm
1596 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:13:02pm

re: #1591 jaunte

He was a big liquid crystal diode user.

PIMF. Sorry.

1597 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:13:05pm

re: #1549 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've heard of you...

And here I thought it was all just a myth...

/

1598 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:13:22pm

Weather Report's "This is This", with Steve Kahn taking the Carlos Santana part.

1599 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:13:23pm

John Hiatt invented Sat nights...and for anybody that still doesn't know Sonny Landreth....
Ridin With the King....get some

1600 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:13:35pm
1601 DaddyLawBucks  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:14:08pm

Good night Lizards..........

1602 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:14:22pm

re: #1596 Dark_Falcon

My apologies for the cheap acronympun play, I just can't resist.

1603 Sheila Broflovski  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:14:24pm

The weather was so beautiful on Friday, mid 70's, and now it's back to freezing.

1604 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:14:36pm

re: #1581 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He

1. Didn't know what he was up against.
2. Didn't know what it was all about
3. Had so much to think about...

lol Years ago, I think it was on Behind the Music, he whined and moaned about how he always wanted to be another Robert Plant, but instead he got stuck as this teen idol for a bunch of pre-pubescent little girls. Oh boo fucking hoo. All the fame and fortune he made from both the show and his records. Yeesh.

1605 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:14:49pm

re: #1599 albusteve

John Hiatt invented Sat nights...and for anybody that still doesn't know Sonny Landreth...
Ridin With the King...get some

Got some already. But never hurts to have a little more

1606 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:14:52pm

re: #1583 albusteve

You ever worry about that looming quake that's going to sink Memphis into the river? It could cause property damage in Middle TN.

1607 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:15:07pm

re: #1585 keloyd

I agree unreservedly that voters with 'skin in the game' are better voters. Being a veteran, owning property, literacy - good voters need all that to make altruistic and well-informed decisions. We should have restrictions of all kinds on the condition that they didn't get used to "gerrymander" the electorate...like it has every time, every place before.

I'm fine with 18 year olds voting because even though 9 out of 10 are pathetically ignorant, they don't bother voting, so no harm no foul.

I understand your impluse here, but I can't agree. All citizens have 'skin in the game' ---by virtue of being citizens. Obviously we have to have some kind of restriction-- which we do, the age of 18.

You can't start creating other conditions without disenfranchising and disempowering huge segments of the population.
Not even all of us vote, as it is. Those concerned enough to vote shouldn't ever be disenfranchised, even if (ESPECIALLY IF, in a democracy) we don't agree with them.

1608 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:15:09pm

re: #1603 Alouette

You have a beautiful new avatar.

1609 Sheila Broflovski  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:15:55pm

re: #1608 prairiefire

You have a beautiful new avatar.

That's Mookie, my 25th grandbaby. Isn't she a peach?

1610 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:15:55pm

re: #1592 WindHorse

How'd that happen?

1611 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:16:35pm

re: #1602 jaunte

My apologies for the cheap acronympun play, I just can't resist.

Same here.

1612 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:16:49pm

re: #1567 wlewisiii

Depends. There are a number of non-toxic lead substitutes out there in shotgun shells. Steel is the cheapest but can be hard on the barrels. Realistically, it's cheaper to buy than reload those rounds though.

Now, if you're talking about California & it's latest eco move against any lead in ammuntion, that's a whole different game.

William

I live in Sask, and there are some talking about getting rid of led shot because it gets into the food chain, but the gun shops around here sell nothing but lead.

I don't want it for shotgun shells, I have a different use for it, I want to use it in a sand blaster to get consistent size dimples on silver and copper.

1613 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:17:18pm

re: #1609 Alouette

You have some pro-creatin' offspring, dontcha?

1614 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:17:58pm

re: #1568 iceweasel

I thought you did a damn good job as it was, but I wanna see the blog post. Esp game theory, etc. Although I'm not up to that convo right now, I'm afraid. Too hyper w/J's flight and all!

I can imagine.

Is he coming to you or going away?

1615 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:18:01pm

re: #1609 Alouette

That's Mookie, my 25th grandbaby. Isn't she a peach?

I don't know, looks kind of determined and irked at the same time in that photo. I'd watch out for that one, looks like trouble to me...

1616 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:18:07pm
1617 Kruk  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:18:07pm

re: #1585 keloyd We should have restrictions of all kinds on the condition that they didn't get used to "gerrymander" the electorate...like it has every time, every place before.

That's the problem right there. I personally think given the even the tiniest crack in universal sufferage, people will find ways to lock out the 'wrong' voters. And once you're locked out, it's very hard to get it, as women and blacks found out in the last couple of centuries.

1618 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:18:13pm

re: #1607 iceweasel

Aren't you moving to Nepal or something?

1619 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:18:18pm

re: #1585 keloyd

I agree unreservedly that voters with 'skin in the game' are better voters. Being a veteran, owning property, literacy - good voters need all that to make altruistic and well-informed decisions. We should have restrictions of all kinds on the condition that they didn't get used to "gerrymander" the electorate...like it has every time, every place before.

I'm fine with 18 year olds voting because even though 9 out of 10 are pathetically ignorant, they don't bother voting, so no harm no foul.

I missed this, almost.

Wow@saying that in order to be a good voter you have to be a veteran, and even better, a property owner.

That's some serious elitist, military-fetish, grade-a bullshit right there.

Being a soldier doesn't make you a better voter any more than having money does. Also, 2 of 3 things you mention there were used in the past to disenfranchise blacks. Good job, or something!

1620 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:18:41pm

re: #1613 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You have some pro-creatin' offspring, dontcha?

Alouette is a blogging rabbit.

1621 Sheila Broflovski  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:19:10pm

re: #1620 Cannadian Club Akbar

Alouette is a blogging rabbit.

I am a vicious babushka.

1622 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:19:33pm

re: #1612 b_sharp

I live in Sask, and there are some talking about getting rid of led shot because it gets into the food chain, but the gun shops around here sell nothing but lead.

I don't want it for shotgun shells, I have a different use for it, I want to use it in a sand blaster to get consistent size dimples on silver and copper.

I always wondered about the effect of the occasional leftover shot that ends up in quail or whatever by the time it hits your plate.

1623 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:19:35pm

Antipode map. See what's on the other side of the world from your location.

1624 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:19:46pm

re: #1606 Conservative Moonbat

You ever worry about that looming quake that's going to sink Memphis into the river? It could cause property damage in Middle TN.

I've been drunk in Memphis...so be it

1625 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:20:33pm

G'night knuckleheads.

1626 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:20:38pm

re: #1577 The Sanity Inspector

I won't tolerate a cloud of sociological squid ink. This will be on the test!

Remember, if you have an idea but you can't express it, you don't really have an idea.

That, unfortunately for my colander mind, is quite true.

1627 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:20:43pm

re: #1587 Cannadian Club Akbar

And I am fine with a person under the age of 21 with a military ID having a beer.

Damn, yes.

Two stories.

I'd been stationed in Germany for 18 months & was PCS'd to Ft. Riley (shudder). One week shy of my 21st birthday and so couldn't have a glass of red at a restaurant with my pasta (this was back when Kansas had 3.2 at 18, wine at 21 in restaurants & hard liquor at 21 in "private clubs". Sheesh)

My FIL was in the Navy in WWII and was stationed in Virginia due to having malaria as a teen - he wasn't allowed to go to the south pacific as he wanted as a result. Instead he was on anti-sub patrol in PT Boats. One evening he stopped into a bar, in uniform as his liberty required, and ordered a beer. He was 19 IIRC at the time. The barkeep served him a root-beer. He took it to the far end of the bar & began pouring it out along the bar as he walked towards the exit dropping the empty glass to break on the floor. No one stopped him.

William

1628 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:21:05pm

re: #1616 jaunte

Lyle Lovett and John Hiatt - Natural Forces

really nice...thanks

1629 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:21:06pm

re: #1624 albusteve

I've been drunk in Memphis...so be it

I haven't. Note to self....

1630 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:21:06pm

re: #1625 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Me too. Out! Ice, see ya next time.

1631 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:21:15pm

The Bottle Rockets -- Indianapolis

1632 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:21:32pm

re: #1614 b_sharp

I can imagine.

Is he coming to you or going away?

He's coming here. We haven't seen each other since January. We were married in December, and I'm waiting for my spousal visa to the UK. He's coming over to wait with me until I get it, which should be soon, and then we should never be separated again; I'll go back to Scotland with him.
yay!

re: #1618 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Aren't you moving to Nepal or something?

The Soros seekrit progressive lair has many locations. ;)

1633 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:22:15pm

re: #1580 ausador

Just plain old iron shot (steel), and the softer the grade the better. Stainless steel shot would eat out the inside of your barrel, since it is harder than than the steel used in casting it. Recently some companies have started promoting shot made of Bismuth which is heavier than iron and more closely approximates the shot patterns and throw that you could get with lead shot.

When people say "steel shot" they don't actually mean steel, it is actually iron shot, and definitely not stainless steel.

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll have to rethink this.

1634 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:23:48pm

re: #1612 b_sharp

I live in Sask, and there are some talking about getting rid of led shot because it gets into the food chain, but the gun shops around here sell nothing but lead.

I don't want it for shotgun shells, I have a different use for it, I want to use it in a sand blaster to get consistent size dimples on silver and copper.

Buy bismuth shot then, in the smaller sizes (bigger numbers due to historical accident) it should do what you're looking for.

William

1635 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:23:57pm

re: #1631 Conservative Moonbat

The Bottle Rockets -- Indianapolis

[Video]

the Bottle Rockets!
2ptsre: #1629 Cannadian Club Akbar

I haven't. Note to self...

do Graceland, then you can die happy

1636 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:24:01pm

re: #1616 jaunte

Lyle Lovett and John Hiatt - Natural Forces

Hey - that's sweet.

1637 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:24:08pm

re: #1624 albusteve

I've been drunk in Memphis...so be it

It's generally the best way to experience the city. I try to make the Beale St. Blues Festival every few years. That whole area is going to sink into the river sooner or later.

1638 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:25:51pm

re: #1627 wlewisiii

I was in Mississippi. They let us drink beer because of New Orleans proximity.
Worked for me!! (BTW, I didn't drink then)

1639 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:27:04pm

re: #1637 Conservative Moonbat

Beale St kicks ass. Been there a couple of time. Always got some great local talent going. Haven't been in a decade though. Hmmm.. summer weekend getaway?

1640 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:27:52pm

I am return'd from Scotland charm'd with my expedition: it is of the Highlands I speak: the Lowlands are worth seeing once, but the Mountains are extatic, & ought to be visited in pilgrimage once a year. None but those monstrous creatures of God know how to join so much beauty with so much horror...Italy could hardly produce a nobler scene, or a finer season, and this is so sweetly contrasted with that perfection of nastiness, & total want of accommodation, that Scotland only can supply.
-- Thomas Gray, letter to William Mason, 8 November 1765

1641 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:27:52pm

re: #1635 albusteve

do Graceland, then you can die happy

You probably don't much care for the guy but have you ever read the eulogy Steve Cohen gave for Warren Zevon? It includes a bit about Steve taking Warren to Graceland.

[Link: www.knoxviews.com...]

1642 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:28:21pm

re: #1637 Conservative Moonbat

It's generally the best way to experience the city. I try to make the Beale St. Blues Festival every few years. That whole area is going to sink into the river sooner or later.

I hope I'm there for that event...that will be HUGE!

1643 windsagio  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:28:38pm

oops, work.

Don't take any wooden nickels!

1644 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:30:17pm

Cry Love...studio Hiatt

1645 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:31:35pm

A Ride With Bob: The Bob Wills Musical. A promo video for the tribute show created by Asleep At The Wheel's Roy Benson

1646 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:31:43pm

re: #1644 albusteve

dude, you got me all excited for some Cry Love, but that's Ridin' with the King. Nothing wrong with the latter, but you set it up for the former..

1647 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:32:08pm

I love stand-up comedy. The guy on Comedy Central right now sucks. I hate bad comedy, which should be considered just talking.

1648 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:32:34pm

re: #1634 wlewisiii

Buy bismuth shot then, in the smaller sizes (bigger numbers due to historical accident) it should do what you're looking for.

William

Are they fairly consistent in size? What is the size of the smallest?

Thanks for that, I'll give the gun shop a call on Monday and see what he has in stock.

1649 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:32:57pm

re: #1641 Conservative Moonbat

You probably don't much care for the guy but have you ever read the eulogy Steve Cohen gave for Warren Zevon? It includes a bit about Steve taking Warren to Graceland.

[Link: www.knoxviews.com...]

whoa...some powerful stuff there....everybody should read that, thanks

1650 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:35:11pm

re: #1646 cliffster

dude, you got me all excited for some Cry Love, but that's Ridin' with the King. Nothing wrong with the latter, but you set it up for the former..

I'm a Hiatt junkie...seen him many times with his various bands...his stuff is the very best out there, none better than Hiatt....copped my only hat tip here for a Hiatt post...and to think people never heard of him

1651 keloyd  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:35:16pm

Windsagio - read my post again. You're agreeing with me. I may not be the only one here about to go to sleep and not quite sober. I gave examples of 'skin in the game' helping a voter's judgment, but not requirements. I want to keep the rules right where they are because pols will abuse it otherwise.

re: #1607 iceweasel

I understand your impluse here, but I can't agree. All citizens have 'skin in the game' ---by virtue of being citizens. Obviously we have to have some kind of restriction-- which we do, the age of 18.

You can't start creating other conditions without disenfranchising and disempowering huge segments of the population.
Not even all of us vote, as it is. Those concerned enough to vote shouldn't ever be disenfranchised, even if (ESPECIALLY IF, in a democracy) we don't agree with them.

Ah, but there are degrees of skin in the game. Obama's last speech to some college kids got the loudest applause line, by far, with something about student loans. That's a penny ante thing compared to the bulk of issues in that specific speech. Their ecstasy at the idea of free money for them, paid by others, was unseemly. Some voters are more 'gimme gimme' oriented than others. OTOH, any way you try to fix that makes it worse.

Later Taters.

1652 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:36:03pm

re: #1647 Cannadian Club Akbar

I love stand-up comedy. The guy on Comedy Central right now sucks. I hate bad comedy, which should be considered just talking out of one's ass.

moderately improved

1653 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:36:09pm

Hiatt
Shredding the Document

1654 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:37:54pm

re: #1650 albusteve

Hiatt is #1, no doubt. Ridiculous all the clowns that make it big in music, while this guy has made a life of slugging it out in the wings

1655 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:38:11pm

re: #1652 Dark_Falcon

moderately improved

Redneck doing a song. Hmm. If you didn't suck you would be in Nashville.

1656 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:39:09pm

anybody notice how leftbangers don't understand rock and roll or the blues?...they all seem to be into Amy Winebottle or some rage metal?...just an observation

1657 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:39:39pm

re: #1648 b_sharp

Are they fairly consistent in size? What is the size of the smallest?

Thanks for that, I'll give the gun shop a call on Monday and see what he has in stock.

Heh. Short version is here: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] That page has a good chart that should allow you to decide what size will work for your application. Good luck with it!

William

1658 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:39:59pm

COLD in Austin today. 41 degrees, 25 MPH gusts. Still, big crowds at Auditorium Shores despite all the rain last night. Zoe Deschanel's duo, She & Him, is surprisingly good. Saw the Alejandro Escovedo show last night at Jo's.

Killer Bee!

And good evening. It appears the R's are saying that the Healthcare Reform process is unconstitutional.

Let's send it to the Supreme Court! Activist judges are evil!

1659 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:40:43pm

re: #1632 iceweasel

OMG, a Scotsman.

My maternal grandfather was a Scot. Although he was born in Canada, both his parents were Scottish.

A few years before she died, my grandmother went over to Scotland to see if she could trace his family. She actually found his family had a shield and a tartan. She brought a sample of both back, but when she died, they disappeared so we have no idea what they looked like. My Aunt had a list of surnames in his lineage, but last I spoke to her she couldn't find it (of course I lost the email she sent to me a couple of years ago that contained the names.)

1660 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:40:48pm

re: #1649 albusteve

whoa...some powerful stuff there...everybody should read that, thanks

He's been my favorite member of the TN congressional delegation ever since I read that. If he ever faced a serious primary challenge (a Democrat will always win that seat) I'd consider dropping everything I was doing and heading out there to volunteer.

1661 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:40:59pm

re: #1654 cliffster

Hiatt is #1, no doubt. Ridiculous all the clowns that make it big in music, while this guy has made a life of slugging it out in the wings

Well he *was* married to Roseanne Cash..

1662 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:41:12pm

re: #1656 albusteve

anybody notice how leftbangers don't understand rock and roll or the blues?...they all seem to be into Amy Winebottle or some rage metal?...just an observation

Or Industrial. Chords, people. Learn 'em, love 'em, live 'em

1663 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:42:31pm

re: #1654 cliffster

Hiatt is #1, no doubt. Ridiculous all the clowns that make it big in music, while this guy has made a life of slugging it out in the wings

well, Ive actually talked to him about that...but I'd be bragging I guess...he is very comfortable with his work, his money and his life...and you are exactly right about mediocre talent making tons of money, but it's always been that way...even so I resent it and mock that paradigm whenever I can

1664 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:42:50pm

re: #1651 keloyd


Ah, but there are degrees of skin in the game.

Their ecstasy at the idea of free money for them, paid by others, was unseemly.

Some voters are more 'gimme gimme' oriented than others.

1) There is no such thing as having 'degrees' of 'skin in the game'.
2) Student loans aren't 'free'.
3) Cheering at a line about student loans is not 'unseemly'. For 'unseemly', you have to look at teaparties and places where calls for revolution, or claims that some of our citizenry are less equal than others, get huge applause.
4) 'gimme gimme'? Let's see how this works: appluading student loans is being 'gimme gimme', objecting to HCR for those without insurance is....what, exactly?
It's "I got mine so fuck you Jack".

Sorry to respond when you've just left. Have a good night.

1665 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:42:51pm

re: #1641 Conservative Moonbat

You probably don't much care for the guy but have you ever read the eulogy Steve Cohen gave for Warren Zevon? It includes a bit about Steve taking Warren to Graceland.

[Link: www.knoxviews.com...]

That was fantastic. Now I gotta read up on Steve Cohen. (Already love Warren Z.)

1666 jaunte  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:43:38pm
1667 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:43:45pm

re: #1657 wlewisiii

Heh. Short version is here: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] That page has a good chart that should allow you to decide what size will work for your application. Good luck with it!

William

Thank you very much William. I certainly appreciate the help.

1668 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:43:46pm

re: #1656 albusteve

anybody notice how leftbangers don't understand rock and roll or the blues?...they all seem to be into Amy Winebottle or some rage metal?...just an observation

Eyebrow up. I think we're on the verge of a failure to communicate here. Define rock & blues. - I've probably got as much in my itunes directory as anyone here... ;)

And Amy Winehouse as well. A serious train wreck but I hope she'll give us one more great album before she kills herself.

William

1669 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:44:01pm

re: #1656 albusteve

anybody notice how leftbangers don't understand rock and roll or the blues?...they all seem to be into Amy Winebottle or some rage metal?...just an observation

Sorry dude, that's the younger crowd. Us old lefties will go toe to toe with you anytime.

1670 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:44:04pm

re: #1661 austin_blue

Well he *was* married to Roseanne Cash..

Really? I missed that one.

1671 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:44:30pm

re: #1660 Conservative Moonbat

He's been my favorite member of the TN congressional delegation ever since I read that. If he ever faced a serious primary challenge (a Democrat will always win that seat) I'd consider dropping everything I was doing and heading out there to volunteer.

really, I am impressed...a pol I can relate to?....am I near death?

1672 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:45:12pm

re: #1659 b_sharp

OMG, a Scotsman.

My maternal grandfather was a Scot. Although he was born in Canada, both his parents were Scottish.

A few years before she died, my grandmother went over to Scotland to see if she could trace his family. She actually found his family had a shield and a tartan. She brought a sample of both back, but when she died, they disappeared so we have no idea what they looked like. My Aunt had a list of surnames in his lineage, but last I spoke to her she couldn't find it (of course I lost the email she sent to me a couple of years ago that contained the names.)

Is the email still in her Sent box? See if your local library has free access to ancestry.com, if you have to start over.

1673 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:45:38pm

re: #1668 wlewisiii

Eyebrow up. I think we're on the verge of a failure to communicate here. Define rock & blues. - I've probably got as much in my itunes directory as anyone here... ;)

And Amy Winehouse as well. A serious train wreck but I hope she'll give us one more great album before she kills herself.

William

if you need R/R or the blues defined, you are automatically up for re-ed

1674 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:45:50pm

re: #1656 albusteve

anybody notice how leftbangers don't understand rock and roll or the blues?...they all seem to be into Amy Winebottle or some rage metal?...just an observation

You better define "leftbanger" in a way that excludes me then.

Actually, in case you haven't noticed, most blusemen aren't white and aren't rich and most likely aren't right wing.

1675 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:46:00pm

re: #1663 albusteve

Did you? How'd that happen? Call my phone on 3-way next time that conversation comes up.. I've got some questions of my own.

1676 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:46:52pm

re: #1669 austin_blue

Sorry dude, that's the younger crowd. Us old lefties will go toe to toe with you anytime.

I'm surfin for a buzz that's all...I can count on you to figure Delbert from Kenny G

1677 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:47:16pm

re: #1671 albusteve

really, I am impressed...a pol I can relate to?...am I near death?

As a new grandfather? I certainly hope not! You need to have a long time to enjoy and cuddle that child.

1678 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:47:41pm

re: #1673 albusteve

if you need R/R or the blues defined, you are automatically up for re-ed

I know what it is (More fun in the new world :) but do I know if you do :)

/ LOL

William

1679 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:48:24pm

re: #1674 Conservative Moonbat

You better define "leftbanger" in a way that excludes me then.


[Video]Actually, in case you haven't noticed, most blusemen aren't white and aren't rich and most likely aren't right wing.

there are exceptions I guess...nice post

1680 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:48:28pm

re: #1665 Stanley Sea

Here he is recently commemorating Alex Chilton on the floor of congress a couple days ago:

1681 The Left  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:49:48pm

re: #1640 The Sanity Inspector

I changed my ding on that after i saw some of the other shit you updinged tonight. Sorry.

1682 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:50:13pm

re: #1680 Conservative Moonbat

Here he is recently commemorating Alex Chilton on the floor of congress a couple days ago:


[Video]

That was him! Really cool guy.

Hell, I'll go to work for him if he's primaried.

1683 The Sanity Inspector  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:50:39pm
1684 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:51:36pm

re: #1676 albusteve

I'm surfin for a buzz that's all...I can count on you to figure Delbert from Kenny G

Thanks! Hard to believe that Delbert is almost 70 now. Doesn't play that much anymore here, but he is Austin royalty.

1685 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:52:38pm

re: #1684 austin_blue

Bullshit. He's nowhere near 70??

1686 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:53:17pm

re: #1685 cliffster

Bullshit. He's nowhere near 70??

Yup. Lubbock boy. 1940.

1687 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:55:19pm

re: #1686 austin_blue

Wow. I saw him play not that long ago. I never would have guessed near-70 by the number of early twentysomething girlies trying to climb up on stage with him, grab him, grope him, etc

1688 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:56:50pm

G'night.

1689 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:57:50pm

re: #1675 cliffster

Did you? How'd that happen? Call my phone on 3-way next time that conversation comes up.. I've got some questions of my own.

well I'm a groupie...I get onto these tours and see several gigs in a row...and when you keep showing up, the sound guy, or manager, or security will let you get backstage....I've literally conned my way backstage with bullshit stories about catering problems or messages to deliver...the first time I met Hiatt was at the Ark in Ann Arbor years back....my buddy was show security so when everybody had to leave the place I just hung out and up walks Hiatt to the bar after signing a bunch of autographs...I bought him a beer and we just stood there and talked for about twenty minutes or more...a couple of others people were there but that was it...he was unwinding and relaxed...I met him at Norfolk a couple of years later under the same circumstances and he claimed to remember me!....from the Ark!....Hiatt is just a normal, country guy, concerned about his girls, his horses his family....he talked about music etc, but invariably most of the stars I've met are more interested in sports, home repairs and life away from recording and touring

1690 austin_blue  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:59:03pm

re: #1687 cliffster

Wow. I saw him play not that long ago. I never would have guessed near-70 by the number of early twentysomething girlies trying to climb up on stage with him, grab him, grope him, etc

He's very well preserved, especially for a musician (heh). Delbert's a treat.

I'm off upthread.

1691 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:59:12pm

re: #1687 cliffster

Wow. I saw him play not that long ago. I never would have guessed near-70 by the number of early twentysomething girlies trying to climb up on stage with him, grab him, grope him, etc

If he looks and sounds good, the groupies don't pay much attention to age.

1692 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 9:59:23pm

re: #1677 austin_blue

As a new grandfather? I certainly hope not! You need to have a long time to enjoy and cuddle that child.

I will in a few weeks...headed north for some baby/family time...put away my vices and tidy up for the folks back home...I'm juiced

1693 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 10:00:40pm

re: #1678 wlewisiii

I know what it is (More fun in the new world :) but do I know if you do :)

/ LOL

William

I know you do...I AM the blues!....hahaha!...white boy blues!

1694 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 10:02:13pm

re: #1684 austin_blue

Thanks! Hard to believe that Delbert is almost 70 now. Doesn't play that much anymore here, but he is Austin royalty.

yes he is, and he deserves it...one guy I would love to drink with

1695 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 10:03:08pm

re: #1689 albusteve

Cool. He sure seems like The Songwriting Genius Next Door

1696 cliffster  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 10:04:10pm

That's it for me. Peace and purpose to anyone left skimming this thread.

1697 albusteve  Sat, Mar 20, 2010 10:07:57pm

re: #1695 cliffster

Cool. He sure seems like The Songwriting Genius Next Door

well he is...but he's gifted and he doesn't seem to make much of it...he is extremely appreciative that people cover his songs...there is a huge difference between how these people see themselves as opposed to how their fans see them...when you scream "Clapton is God!" or whatever, some musicians just gag...they know their limits...and Clapton in particular, for example, is very insecure about his playing...believe it or not

1698 I Am Kreniigh!  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:14:57am

Holy God, I do not have time to read through seventy-seven undred messages in this thread (owing to the fact that I have a Darkspawn invasion to stop), but really...

This issue has a lot of room for reasonable people with good, valid arguments to come together and discuss their differences and work in good faith to come to some kind of agreement about how best to proceed.

Reasonable People. Valid Arguments. Everyone else, FUCK THE FUCK OFF PLEASE!!!!!

God. DAMN!

What does it take to clear the clowns off the stage? Jesus!

1699 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:13:13am

Capecoddah, you should settle down because Ice rocks.

Also have some awesome gaming: [Link: adamatomic.com...] Canabalt rules!


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