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664 comments
1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:18:26am

People actually think this shit is clever?

2 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:18:30am

They're completely and utterly wrong, too. If Brown can't stop 'it'-- being HCR, I assume-- then a Browning (I assume this means shooting Obama or one of the Democrats) would completely cement the passing of the bill.

I really hope it doesn't come anywhere close to that.

3 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:18:52am

Frakkin' knotheads. Make folks who want to argue coherently look as looney as them.

4 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:19:04am

I think I might have been the first to find that sign but that pic is better than the one I originally found. I think the Hat tip needs to go to someone else. Anyone remember who first linked to that pic.
/not to squabble about hat tips but.....

5 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:19:38am

Ah, corrected now.

6 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:20:26am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

I think it was Gus 802.

Notice also the image of Obama with a Hitler mustache emerging from the donkey's ass.

7 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:21:29am

The people holding signs like that need a nice visit from the Secret Service to remind them that threats of death are a crime.

8 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:21:45am

John Browning is spinning in his grave. I really hate it when protesters abuse their rights, as in the 1st, and the rights of others. The real Browning Company has now had its reputation damaged. No legitimate gun owner or maker wants to see this kind of contemptible sign.

9 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:22:14am

re: #2 Obdicut

They're completely and utterly wrong, too. If Brown can't stop 'it'-- being HCR, I assume-- then a Browning (I assume this means shooting Obama or one of the Democrats) would completely cement the passing of the bill.

I really hope it doesn't come anywhere close to that.

I wonder how long it will be before we start seeing a far-right equivalent to something like Weather Underground.

10 Uninformed Opinion  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:23:03am

re: #9 Soap_Man

I wonder how long it will be before we start seeing a far-right equivalent to something like Weather Underground.

right wing domestic terrorism? We havent seen that since the 90s!

11 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:23:21am

That First Amendment is a pesky thing.

12 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:24:26am

re: #9 Soap_Man

Tim McVeigh. To our collective shame. Nothing at WACO or Ruby Ridge justified that in any way.

13 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:24:36am

re: #10 Uninformed Opinion

right wing domestic terrorism? We havent seen that since the 90s!

I'm talking about organized groups, not just lone wolf type stuff.

14 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:24:41am

re: #8 Rightwingconspirator

John Browning is spinning in his grave. I really hate it when protesters abuse their rights, as in the 1st, and the rights of others. The real Browning Company has now had its reputation damaged. No legitimate gun owner or maker wants to see this kind of contemptible sign.

True. John Moses Browning was an American patriot, who during WWI accepted a fixed fee for his military weapons inside of royalties so as to lower their cost to the nation. There is however, no Browning corporation. His designs that remain in production are produced by Colt in the US and FN in Belgium.

Gotta go, BBL.

15 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:25:33am

It's not even that funny. Ooh Obama with a Hitler mustache how original. How many times have we seen that lame joke now.

16 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:26:40am

re: #15 HappyWarrior
Yep. I wish the right and left both would dump the Hitler pics and references.

17 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:26:40am

re: #11 pingjockey

So is not being able to shout "FIRE" in a crowded theatre.

18 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:27:07am

Hitler-Obama getting shit out by a mule.

On his forty acres?

Lovely!

19 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:27:12am

re: #11 pingjockey

That First Amendment is a pesky thing.

Not really. I'm not sure that sign would be covered as free speech. Threatening assassinations is not covered by the fist amendment. Even if the sign is legal it's very disturbing that those people were wandering the halls of congress and were shouting at politicians outside with no security screening or metal detectors.

20 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:27:15am

re: #16 pingjockey


Make sure you make the 'tu quoque' argument. Oh wait, you already did.

21 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:27:41am

What bothers me most about this sign is the Fireworks by the capitol dome ... that and the "Fire Line" do not cross" border. The Incendiary explosion by the dome implies more than just gunfire.

22 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:28:10am

re: #17 wozzablog
Concur. Just saying, there are times right and left both probably wish they could sit on some of their more enthusiastic users of the 1st.

23 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:29:02am

re: #13 Soap_Man

I'm talking about organized groups, not just lone wolf type stuff.

You mean like the militias and the minutemen and the Oath Keepers?

Nothing to see here.

24 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:29:25am

Hot Air just put up a thread about the Republicans condemning racist slurs. The readers are outraged at weak Republicans falling for leftist Alinsky tactics.

25 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:29:39am

re: #15 HappyWarrior

It's not even that funny. Ooh Obama with a Hitler mustache how original. How many times have we seen that lame joke now.

It's not a joke.

26 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:29:56am

This is not surprising at all... very bothersome, but not surprising. There are certainly people on the far right who would have no problem seeing fighting in the streets break out over the current administration.

I was pointing these possibilities out almost two years ago, right here on LGF.

27 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:30:01am

re: #20 Obdicut

Wait a second-To fairly argue for the end of this kind of crap, you have to point out how it has cut both ways or you are thought a mere partisan objector.

Does the obvious catch-22 trump tu quoque?

28 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:30:10am

re: #22 pingjockey

Concur. Just saying, there are times right and left both probably wish they could sit on some of their more enthusiastic users of the 1st.

Sorry, the Right's elected representatives spoke to this rally, with both this yellow sign and the 2nd Revolution Flags flying behind them, this is not just enthusiastic users, this is approved by their leadership.

29 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:30:16am

re: #20 Obdicut
Do not know of what you speak. I don't know if these signs cross the line for the Secret Service to investigate. It would appear they do but I have no idea how far a citizen can go.

30 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:30:23am

re: #22 pingjockey

Agreed, but i don't believe it's the first amendment they are using when they pull this shit.

31 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:31:38am

re: #28 Stanley Sea
Fine, ya don't like the reps...November is on the way.

32 Uninformed Opinion  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:31:50am

re: #13 Soap_Man

I'm talking about organized groups, not just lone wolf type stuff.

Militia, patriot, minutemen, oathkeepers, and a resurgence of white nationalism isnt enough?

33 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:32:07am

re: #27 Rightwingconspirator

I think concentrating on the present time is worthwhile. I do not think the comparison is at all even, either. But mostly I just think that it's more important to pay attention to the guys with the signs threatening violence right now, then to try to make equivalency arguments.

34 amused  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:32:21am

Better access to healthcare? Nah, I think I'll have to get violent about THAT. WTF is wrong with these people?

35 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:32:56am

McVeigh was not a lone wolf. He was produce from a well-tended garden of poisonous plants.

36 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:33:16am

re: #34 amused

fairly simple -

there is a communist/facsist/racist/illegal government now.

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:34:25am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Hot Air just put up a thread about the Republicans condemning racist slurs. The readers are outraged at weak Republicans falling for leftist Alinsky tactics.

Yeah. You've definitely fallen for the Alinsky tactics if you object to people hurling racial slurs at your colleagues.

//These people are CRAAAAAZEEEEEE.

38 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:34:48am

re: #33 Obdicut

I think concentrating on the present time is worthwhile. I do not think the comparison is at all even, either. But mostly I just think that it's more important to pay attention to the guys with the signs threatening violence right now, then to try to make equivalency arguments.

I think you are right. There was a lot of "kill bush" rhetoric going on during the 8 years of the Bush administration, but that is all over now, and he didn't get killed so it's not a problem.

The problem is the current threats.

39 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:35:07am

re: #29 pingjockey

Do not know of what you speak. I don't know if these signs cross the line for the Secret Service to investigate. It would appear they do but I have no idea how far a citizen can go.

I think that's crossing the line, and I would expect the Secret Service to look into it.

40 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:35:27am

re: #33 Obdicut

I think concentrating on the present time is worthwhile. I do not think the comparison is at all even, either. But mostly I just think that it's more important to pay attention to the guys with the signs threatening violence right now, then to try to make equivalency arguments.

That's how the right is trying to distance themselves, without actually denouncing what they see in front of their faces. Cowardly in my opinion.

41 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:35:45am

re: #39 SanFranciscoZionist
I dearly damn hope so.

42 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:35:48am

sparsely attended

What are you talkin' about Willis.
Michelle Bachman told me 50,000 patriots showed up and Gateway Pundit said 100,000!!!111!!!!

43 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:37:32am

re: #34 amused

Better access to healthcare? Nah, I think I'll have to get violent about THAT. WTF is wrong with these people?

The thing that drives them the most crazy is that the feds will require them to buy insurance. These separatist freaks are going to go batshit nuts when they start getting letters and fines from the IRS.

44 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:37:46am

Bircher / Beck / Domininionist TP Vigil rapped up the TP bad craziness yesterday, reportage on it over at Frums
[Link: www.frumforum.com...]

45 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:38:24am

re: #33 Obdicut

You only have to go back 3 years to see violent anti Bush signs. In this case tu quoque primacy would be leading us away from resolving the problem. Unless you are unconcerned for when the pendulum swings back the other way again.

IMHO
Violence, like racism is to be opposed at all times with all accurate references.

46 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:39:00am

First and Second Amendment rights being excercised here. Doesn't the Second Amendment guarantee citizens the right to take up arms whenever they disagree with what the government is doing?

47 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:39:08am

re: #32 Uninformed Opinion

Militia, patriot, minutemen, oathkeepers, and a resurgence of white nationalism isnt enough?

It's too much. What I meant by my comments is that I'm worried about far-right groups moving from barking to biting. I wasn't saying they don't exist.

48 andres  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:39:10am

re: #38 Walter L. Newton

I think you are right. There was a lot of "kill bush" rhetoric going on during the 8 years of the Bush administration, but that is all over now, and he didn't get killed so it's not a problem.

The problem is the current threats.

Can someone correct me (I wasn't that interested in USA politics during the Bush years), but did the Democratic leadership/congresspeople participated in those anti-Bush rallies that carried threats towards Bush?

49 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:39:40am

re: #43 KingKenrod
What's gonna happen to the folks who can't afford any health insurance? Are we gonna toss 'em in jail? Fine them? How can the gov't make you buy a service you don't want or can't afford?

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:39:52am

re: #46 ralphieboy

First and Second Amendment rights being excercised here. Doesn't the Second Amendment guarantee citizens the right to take up arms whenever they disagree with what the government is doing?

Er, I don't think the Second Amendment says anything about that....

...so it must be a right reserved to the states!!! LOCK AND LOAD!!!


//OK, I'm kind of tense this morning.

51 Racer X  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:39:56am

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

The people holding signs like that need a nice visit from the Secret Service to remind them that threats of death are a crime.

Agreed.

52 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:40:20am

So what happens today when these folks (the ones still DC) meet up with the huge numbers of folks coming to Washington for the immigration march?

Will the march even be covered by the media?
I'm sure FOX will have all day coverage.
/

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:41:50am

re: #52 webevintage

So what happens today when these folks (the ones still DC) meet up with the huge numbers of folks coming to Washington for the immigration march?

Will the march even be covered by the media?
I'm sure FOX will have all day coverage.
/

I'm sort of curious about that myself.

54 Uninformed Opinion  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:42:05am

re: #44 Thanos

Bircher / Beck / Domininionist TP Vigil rapped up the TP bad craziness yesterday, reportage on it over at Frums
[Link: www.frumforum.com...]

yikes.

55 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:42:11am

re: #52 webevintage

So what happens today when these folks (the ones still DC) meet up with the huge numbers of folks coming to Washington for the immigration march?

Will the march even be covered by the media?
I'm sure FOX will have all day coverage.
/

As I mentioned yesterday, once immigration reform starts, the Tea Parties are going to start getting real ugly. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

56 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:42:11am

re: #27 Rightwingconspirator

Wait a second-To fairly argue for the end of this kind of crap, you have to point out how it has cut both ways or you are thought a mere partisan objector.

Does the obvious catch-22 trump tu quoque?

Something else we have to consider, RWC, is that these wingnut types are far more capable of acting on their threats than were the fantasy prone leftists.
The latter's idea of violent revolution is wearing a black mask, chanting catchy slogans and assaulting the occasional store window or outnumbered bystander. The real risk takers might whip up a pipe bomb, on the basis of faded underground paper illustrations, with which they are far more likely to harm themselves than any of their targets. The wingnuts' idea of violence is to actually use those millions of guns and billions of round of ammunition they have stashed, not to mention the competently fabricated bombs and other nasty devices they are quite capable of putting together.

57 amused  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:42:13am

Yes, it is illegal to advocate the violent overthrow of the government:

[Link: uscode.house.gov...]

58 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:42:28am

re: #46 ralphieboy

Ofcourse - that is the 2nd amendment argument.

Guns keep you free from government.

Its why Europe is socialist and america is still capitalist..........

59 Uninformed Opinion  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:43:24am

re: #55 Soap_Man

As I mentioned yesterday, once immigration reform starts, the Tea Parties are going to start getting real ugly. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

I agree with you there. After two years in Phoenix I have no illusions.

60 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:43:25am

re: #44 Thanos

Bircher / Beck / Domininionist TP Vigil rapped up the TP bad craziness yesterday, reportage on it over at Frums
[Link: www.frumforum.com...]

How very strange.

61 Ojoe  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:43:56am

1. This threatening of violence is no good.

2. An actual leader would get people to cooperate.

3. The two-party system encourages the kind of strife we see here; there is no center to "2."

4. Need I post something about the Modern Whig Party?

5. Go ahead and google it yourself.

BBL

62 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:44:11am

re: #49 pingjockey

What's gonna happen to the folks who can't afford any health insurance? Are we gonna toss 'em in jail? Fine them? How can the gov't make you buy a service you don't want or can't afford?

Of course not.
They will be fined, pay the fine and you get insurance, don't pay the fine and it will come out of you tax refund.
If you can't afford it there is a subsidy:
[Link: healthreform.kff.org...]

63 mich-again  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:45:52am

re: #46 ralphieboy

Doesn't the Second Amendment guarantee citizens the right to take up arms whenever they disagree with what the government is doing?


Thats what elections are for.

64 amused  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:46:59am

I don't think a few people with handguns and hunting rifles are much of a match against a government with stealth bombers, aircraft carriers, and lots and lots of tanks. And a large standing professional army.

It's silly to think that the second amendment gun clause is the only thing holding the government in check.

65 andres  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:47:47am

re: #61 Ojoe

Ojoe, can I contact you somehow, to ask you something about the Modern Whigs?

66 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:48:11am

re: #62 webevintage
What if ya don't get a tax refund...like my family. we made less than 67k and got back a grand total of 180.00 and I have a 10 yr old and a 16 yr old. I figure after this HCR is passed I'll be paying over 1000.00 back to the IRS to fund those who can't/won't buy health care.

67 Ojoe  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:48:32am

re: #63 mich-again

Thats what elections are for.


In which many lazy people do not vote.

BBL really

68 van helsing  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:48:41am

re: #62 webevintage

Of course not.
They will be fined, pay the fine and you get insurance, don't pay the fine and it will come out of you tax refund.
If you can't afford it there is a subsidy:
[Link: healthreform.kff.org...]


Which will come out of another taxpayers refund.

69 Ojoe  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:49:00am

re: #65 andres

OK

70 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:49:04am

Don't just assume all Republicans are condemning the racist and homophobic slurs of yesterday:

SCULLY: A lot of angry comments aimed at a couple of your colleagues, including Barney Frank and Congressman John Lewis, using the “n” word as some of the protesters jeered at him as he walked through the halls of the Capitol.

NUNES: Yeah, well I think that when you use totalitarian tactics, people, you know, begin to act crazy. I think, you know, there’s people that have every right to say what they want. If they want to smear someone, they can do it. It’s not appropriate. And I think I would stop short of characterizing the 20,000 people protesting, that all of them were doing that –

SCULLY: — those are just some of the stories.

NUNES: Of course. I think the left loves to play a couple of incidents here or there.

Rep. Nunes of CA

71 Uninformed Opinion  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:49:16am

re: #64 amused

I don't think a few people with handguns and hunting rifles are much of a match against a government with stealth bombers, aircraft carriers, and lots and lots of tanks. And a large standing professional army.

It's silly to think that the second amendment gun clause is the only thing holding the government in check.

You have no idea what you are talking about. This goes far, far, far beyond handguns and hunting rifles. fortified compounds, explosives, land mines, living off the grid, mercenaries, and anti government plots is just the beginning.

72 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:50:13am

re: #64 amused

Up-ding for the avatar. Love it!

73 Ojoe  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:50:26am

BBL

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:50:28am

re: #71 Uninformed Opinion

You have no idea what you are talking about. This goes far, far, far beyond handguns and hunting rifles. fortified compounds, explosives, land mines, living off the grid, mercenaries, and anti government plots is just the beginning.

Think they can stand up against the 101st Airborne?

///Bad thoughts. I have to stay away from this coversation.

75 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:50:44am

re: #44 Thanos

Bircher / Beck / Domininionist TP Vigil rapped up the TP bad craziness yesterday, reportage on it over at Frums
[Link: www.frumforum.com...]

That does raise some interesting possibilities. Beck's act certainly has some elements borrowed from evangelical TV preachers but this takes it to a new level. It looks like Beck might not only be effecting politics but there's a whole new hybrid religion cropping up.

76 Uninformed Opinion  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:51:33am

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Think they can stand up against the 101st Airborne?

///Bad thoughts. I have to stay away from this coversation.

Its not so much about that. Its more about the possibility of broad based terrorist insurgency.

and yes, im being slightly far fetched.

77 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:51:44am

re: #64 amused

Agreed - in theory.

Use of those items against a small revolting population would cause large collateral damage though.

78 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:52:45am

re: #49 pingjockey

What's gonna happen to the folks who can't afford any health insurance? Are we gonna toss 'em in jail? Fine them? How can the gov't make you buy a service you don't want or can't afford?

Those people are in for a rude awakening when they realize the govt subsidies will not cover their costs.

Personally, I think the coverage mandate will get ruled unconstitutional. But I also think Democrats might be secretly wishing for that - because then they will have to come up with a different coverage/funding mechanism, which probably includes a universal fee/tax, like a permanent increase in Medicare/Medicaid taxes.

79 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:52:48am

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Small groups in a guerilla war hiding among the urban population - or in wilderness isolation are pretty difficult against any force hunting them.

80 amused  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:53:14am

re: #72 Soap_Man

Thanks!

May you be touched by His noodly appendage,

81 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:53:21am

Laters all.

82 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:53:35am

re: #75 Killgore Trout

Yeah it's pretty disturbing, and Noah's not some leftist trying to bash the Tea party. He's sympathetic to some of their fiscal goals etc from what I've read.

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:53:56am

re: #76 Uninformed Opinion

Its not so much about that. Its more about the possibility of broad based terrorist insurgency.

and yes, im being slightly far fetched.

I get it. I just hate thinking about this crap...:)

84 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:54:17am

A Hot Air reader is outraged at the Government oppression of whites.....


My government slurs my race every chance it gets, diverts a disproportionate amount of money to races other than mine and is attempting to enslave the entire medical profession in order to fulfill its socialist dreams — and WE have denouncing to do?

Ronnie on March 21, 2010 at 1:42 PM

85 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:54:24am

re: #78 KingKenrod
Like we aren't taxed enough....sheesh

86 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:54:35am

re: #62 webevintage

Of course not.
They will be fined, pay the fine and you get insurance, don't pay the fine and it will come out of you tax refund.
If you can't afford it there is a subsidy:
[Link: healthreform.kff.org...]

Yes... go use that calculator... I did, tried a number of scenarios... same results each tome... if you can't afford it... it all comes back to Medicaid... which we already have... let's try again. How does this bill help those who don't have any or barely any funds to afford premiums?

87 van helsing  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:54:51am

re: #78 KingKenrod

Those people are in for a rude awakening when they realize the govt subsidies will not cover their costs.

Personally, I think the coverage mandate will get ruled unconstitutional. But I also think Democrats might be secretly wishing for that - because then they will have to come up with a different coverage/funding mechanism, which probably includes a universal fee/tax, like a permanent increase in Medicare/Medicaid taxes.

Several states have already enacted or begun developing legislation to push the Constitutional aspect of the mandate.

As far as adding to the taxes to pay for it if declared un-Constitutional, that will be interesting...

88 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:56:24am

re: #84 Killgore Trout

The last bastion of racists is victimhood. That's why I sometimes remark on certain partie's assertions here.

89 Uninformed Opinion  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:56:35am

re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist

I get it. I just hate thinking about this crap...:)

Its pretty disturbing. Driving down through parts of texas and seeing fortified compounds with artillery was an eye opening experience.

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:57:25am

re: #86 Walter L. Newton

Yes... go use that calculator... I did, tried a number of scenarios... same results each tome... if you can't afford it... it all comes back to Medicaid... which we already have... let's try again. How does this bill help those who don't have any or barely any funds to afford premiums?

First, why do you see that as a goal of this bill? We have existing programs, such as Medicaid, that are supposed to assist those who have no funds. The primary focus of this bill was always working people who could not afford or access insurance.

91 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:58:12am

I have been getting visits to my blog from "Zionist" (actually Kahanist) websites like Oh My Valve and Sheik Yermami, which shows that Juice are not immune from Teh Crazee. There are as many Obama=Hitler stupid photoshops at those sites as you would see at an average tea party.

92 Digital Display  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:58:22am

re: #66 pingjockey

What if ya don't get a tax refund...like my family. we made less than 67k and got back a grand total of 180.00 and I have a 10 yr old and a 16 yr old. I figure after this HCR is passed I'll be paying over 1000.00 back to the IRS to fund those who can't/won't buy health care.

I haven't quite figured it out yet..
This last year I got a tax break from Obama of 19 dollars a pay period...I get paid twice a month.. This year I got 100 dollars less from my Federal check..
I gotta call my auditor/tax guy...Cause this doesn't feel like a tax break...

93 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:58:48am

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

First, why do you see that as a goal of this bill? We have existing programs, such as Medicaid, that are supposed to assist those who have no funds. The primary focus of this bill was always working people who could not afford or access insurance.

You mean there is only 32 million working people who can't afford insurance of any sort?

94 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 10:59:54am

re: #91 Alouette

I have been getting visits to my blog from "Zionist" (actually Kahanist) websites like Oh My Valve and Sheik Yermami, which shows that Juice are not immune from Teh Crazee. There are as many Obama=Hitler stupid photoshops at those sites as you would see at an average tea party.

Yep, the Kahanists have made the same crazy reach around to proto fascism that Shrieky Shriekerson has from what I've seen. Love the new Avatar btw.

95 sngnsgt  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:00:05am

I couldn't help but get a chortle from this Bill Clinton one liner:

Elsewhere in his remarks, he noted he was speaking on the night before the start of spring, “otherwise known to Al Gore as proof of global warming.”

blogs.wsj.com

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:00:48am

re: #93 Walter L. Newton

You mean there is only 32 million working people who can't afford insurance of any sort?

No, that's not what I said. I'm talking about the focus of the bill.

If you have NO MONEY, that's a different situation.

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:01:06am

re: #94 Thanos

Yep, the Kahanists have made the same crazy reach around to proto fascism that Shrieky Shriekerson has from what I've seen. Love the new Avatar btw.

The Kahanists were always there.

98 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:01:43am

re: #93 Walter L. Newton

You mean there is only 32 million working people who can't afford insurance of any sort?

Did you count the illegals?

99 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:01:55am

re: #92 HoosierHoops

There will be no tax breaks for anyone making over 40k a year period. Taxes will go up and continue to go up for the forseeable future. My kids and grandkids are going to have a lower standard of living than their parents or grandparents.

100 van helsing  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:02:07am

re: #92 HoosierHoops

I haven't quite figured it out yet..
This last year I got a tax break from Obama of 19 dollars a pay period...I get paid twice a month.. This year I got 100 dollars less from my Federal check..
I gotta call my auditor/tax guy...Cause this doesn't feel like a tax break...

Cause it isn't.

101 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:02:16am

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

No, that's not what I said. I'm talking about the focus of the bill.

If you have NO MONEY, that's a different situation.

The legislation, affecting virtually every American and more than a year in the making, would extend coverage to an estimated 32 million uninsured, bar insurers from denying coverage on the basis of existing medical conditions and cut federal deficits by an estimated $138 billion over a decade.

Why doesn't Medicaid cover these 32 million already, according to your logic?

102 van helsing  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:03:00am

Since 45% of the wage earners in the US have ZERO federal tax liability, how will federal tax credits help them?

103 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:03:09am

re: #94 Thanos

Yep, the Kahanists have made the same crazy reach around to proto fascism that Shrieky Shriekerson has from what I've seen. Love the new Avatar btw.

Didn't "Sheik Yermami" used to post here?

104 Irenicum  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:03:12am

re: #44 Thanos

That has got to be one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. I'm flabbergasted.

105 mich-again  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:03:15am

Heres my strategy to deal with all the changes in health care services and costs coming our way. Stay healthy.

106 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:03:47am

re: #101 Walter L. Newton
How in hell is it going to cut the deficit? I keep hearing this crap and do not believe any of it.

107 Uninformed Opinion  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:04:01am

re: #105 mich-again

Heres my strategy to deal with all the changes in health care services and costs coming our way. Stay healthy.

funny. thats been my plan for 8 years now.

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:04:14am
109 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:04:15am

re: #92 HoosierHoops

I haven't quite figured it out yet..
This last year I got a tax break from Obama of 19 dollars a pay period...I get paid twice a month.. This year I got 100 dollars less from my Federal check..
I gotta call my auditor/tax guy...Cause this doesn't feel like a tax break...

How many pay periods was your federal withholding $19 less? If it was greater than 5 then you paid less taxes.

110 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:04:33am

re: #106 pingjockey

What is the cost of not passing the bill?

111 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:04:45am

re: #106 pingjockey

How in hell is it going to cut the deficit? I keep hearing this crap and do not believe any of it.

The CBO says it will... the ex-head of the CBO says it won't. But he doesn't count.

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:05:14am

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

The CBO says it will... the ex-head of the CBO says it won't. But he doesn't count.

How about they both count, and it will half cut the deficit?

113 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:05:37am

re: #110 Obdicut

What is the cost of not passing the bill?

Billions and billions of dollars...

114 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:06:05am

Nah. These righties aren't going to do anything. They're tough in a crowd just like the anti-Israel lefties and Muslims at Civic Center rallies. The two tards with the signs would have to be illiterate morons to not understand the consequences. I think the right-wing talks tough but in the end, they're cream puffs. I think the Jihadi kids have more gravitas than they do. Just my opinion.

115 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:06:20am

re: #56 Shiplord Kirel

I was going to withhold this point until I saw a claim above about artillery. Artillery? Really? At a fortified militia? I call BS.

But here is my real point-We have to also consider how very, very well served the left side is by showing and exaggerating the images shown above. These two can be characterized as just fantasy. (Not by me)
A perfect storm of whackjob and exploitation.

116 mich-again  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:06:40am

re: #102 van helsing

Since 45% of the wage earners in the US have ZERO federal tax liability, how will federal tax credits help them?

IDK for sure but maybe it involves the earned income tax credit.

117 Uninformed Opinion  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:06:41am

re: #113 Walter L. Newton

Billions and billions of dollars...

Trillions. More trillions than the cost of changing the system.

118 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:06:49am

re: #110 Obdicut
No frakkin' idea. All I know is my taxes are going up, this bill doesn't improve me or mines health care and is another gov't boondoggle. The gov't can't run a thing properly, but y'all want to trust them with your health. Madness.

119 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:07:18am

re: #112 SanFranciscoZionist

How about they both count, and it will half cut the deficit?

Because he said it will cost billions. I don't really care, I'm fixing to take as much advantage of this bill passing as I can.

120 Uninformed Opinion  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:08:02am

re: #115 Rightwingconspirator

I was going to withhold this point until I saw a claim above about artillery. Artillery? Really? At a fortified militia? I call BS.

But here is my real point-We have to also consider how very, very well served the left side is by showing and exaggerating the images shown above. These two can be characterized as just fantasy. (Not by me)
A perfect storm of whackjob and exploitation.

El Paso, Texas.

121 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:08:19am

re: #115 Rightwingconspirator

I was going to withhold this point until I saw a claim above about artillery. Artillery? Really? At a fortified militia? I call BS.

But here is my real point-We have to also consider how very, very well served the left side is by showing and exaggerating the images shown above. These two can be characterized as just fantasy. (Not by me)
A perfect storm of whackjob and exploitation.

Right. Just ignore the armed whackjobs and they'll quietly go away.

I'm glad the DHS and the Secret Service don't think like you do.

122 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:08:29am

re: #103 Alouette

Didn't "Sheik Yermami" used to post here?

Yes, he and Weasel Zippers and others of that Ilk

123 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:08:45am

re: #118 pingjockey

No frakkin' idea. All I know is my taxes are going up, this bill doesn't improve me or mines health care and is another gov't boondoggle. The gov't can't run a thing properly, but y'all want to trust them with your health. Madness.

Just because they fuck things up in the past doesn't reflect on this bill... that's the old tu toque. Meaningless.

124 van helsing  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:09:41am

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

Just because they fuck things up in the past doesn't reflect on this bill... that's the old tu toque. Meaningless.

I hope that is sarcasm...

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:09:58am

re: #124 van helsing

I hope that is sarcasm...

You'll never know.

126 mich-again  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:10:28am

Both Allied and Axis soldiers in WWII used Browning pistols. Odd symbol for the Tea Partiers.

127 Digital Display  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:10:29am

re: #109 Girth

How many pay periods was your federal withholding $19 less? If it was greater than 5 then you paid less taxes.

Yup..I think you are right.. Under Obama I have paid 38 dollars less a month in taxes...I did get a 100 less refund this year...But who cares? I like the numbers so far..

128 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:10:45am

re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist

You'll never know.

Mirror of your mind... catchy song.

129 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:11:03am

re: #118 pingjockey

No frakkin' idea. All I know is my taxes are going up, this bill doesn't improve me or mines health care and is another gov't boondoggle. The gov't can't run a thing properly, but y'all want to trust them with your health. Madness.

Ah, the standard 'government is bad, government should do nothing argument'. Very compelling.

And you're conflating health care and health insurance.

And you have no clue what the cost of not passing the bill would be, and apparently don't care.

You lack any argument beyond "don't let the government do things".

130 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:11:23am

re: #123 Walter L. Newton
Walter, you know I spent 20 years in the Navy, the gov't has trouble running the military, Medicare has billions in fraud, waste and abuse. Suddenly the gov't is going to competently going to run another trillion dollar program? Wish I had your faith!

131 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:11:48am

re: #121 Cato the Elder

Nobody would ignore real artillery in private hands, apart from museums etc, where they are disabled. In no way did I suggest anyone threatening vilence be ignored.

re: #120 Uninformed Opinion
Well did you call it in? I would.

132 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:12:54am

re: #129 Obdicut
Well I've had up close and personal dealings with Uncle Sam and his health care...the VA, si I have some idea of how big a mess it is.

133 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:13:26am

re: #130 pingjockey

Cool. What was your rating or NEC? There's quite a few ex-Navy guys on here.

But really: Do you have any argument beyond 'The government can't do things right, so don't let them do anything'?

134 RurouniKenshin  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:13:58am

It's people like that are a small part of why I own guns.

It's a sad state of affairs when I'm less concerned about my government wanting to oppress me than huge numbers of crazy people attacking my government for not oppressing me.

135 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:14:12am

re: #132 pingjockey

Huh. That's odd, given that the VA outranks private insurance in customer satisfaction. I'm sorry to hear you've had bad experiences with them.

[Link: www.defense.gov...]

136 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:14:43am

re: #121 Cato the Elder

I don't mind the ding, as a disagreement, but I really object to your claim any of these nuts should be ignored. It's just wrong. May we please not confuse a call to not exaggerate as a call to ignore?

137 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:14:46am

So Rep. Nunes says "totalitarian tactics" make people "crazy" and you get the occasional spit-on-the-n****r incident.

Wouldn't totalitarian tactics include locking up the spitter(s) and ruining their families? Or, say, an instant shot to the base of the skull?

Instead, Rep. Lewis forgave the guy and refused to press charges.

Wimpy-ass totalitarians we've got these days. It's the wussification of America.

138 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:14:53am

re: #102 van helsing

Since 45% of the wage earners in the US have ZERO federal tax liability, how will federal tax credits help them?

I made only 13 thousand last year, I paid taxes, for a matter of fact, proportionately, more than if I was married, making 120 total and had a shit load of deductions, which was true 6 years ago.

Who the fuck are these 45 percent people you're talking about. Homeless?

Well, I'm on my way to showing zero wages for this coming year, so I should be in seventh heaven being part of that 45 percent.

139 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:15:13am
140 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:15:36am

re: #136 Rightwingconspirator

I don't mind the ding, as a disagreement, but I really object to your claim any of these nuts should be ignored. It's just wrong. May we please not confuse a call to not exaggerate as a call to ignore?

Frankly I don't see any exaggeration, so a call not to exaggerate amounts to a call to ignore.

141 van helsing  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:16:01am

re: #133 Obdicut

Cool. What was your rating or NEC? There's quite a few ex-Navy guys on here.

But really: Do you have any argument beyond 'The government can't do things right, so don't let them do anything'?

How about they just start with cutting fraud from the existing programs? if they can get the $50bn that they claim for 2 consecutive years, then I'll feel much better about their competence.

142 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:16:33am

re: #141 van helsing

What is the rate of fraud in private insurance companies, and what do they do in order to prevent fraud?

143 pingjockey  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:17:07am

re: #133 Obdicut
Sonar Tech. Yep it's a pretty piss poor argument I know, but gov't can't do it all. And I believe HCR is anything but reform. No tort reform, how much would costs drop if doctors malpractice insurance was less? More competition by carriers. Anyway I gotta go. Will catch all you fine folks later. The 16 yr old is getting ready for his driving test, so I'm going to put more grey in my hair by going for a drive!

144 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:17:12am

re: #121 Cato the Elder

Right. Just ignore the armed whackjobs and they'll quietly go away.

I'm glad the DHS and the Secret Service don't think like you do.

I'm not afraid of the armed wackos. I can take care of myself.

145 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:17:15am

Seen on Twitter:

ezraklein
Rep. Blackburn: "Today is the death of freedom as a cause for celebration." Forecast for rest of day: 70 degrees, with crazy showers.

146 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:17:32am

re: #142 Obdicut

What is the rate of fraud in private insurance companies, and what do they do in order to prevent fraud?

Drop peoples coverage.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:17:59am

re: #138 Walter L. Newton

I made only 13 thousand last year, I paid taxes, for a matter of fact, proportionately, more than if I was married, making 120 total and had a shit load of deductions, which was true 6 years ago.

Who the fuck are these 45 percent people you're talking about. Homeless?

Well, I'm on my way to showing zero wages for this coming year, so I should be in seventh heaven being part of that 45 percent.

I've never been sure about that. I can't imagine that I am making more than 45% of Americans, and I have to flip through a couple of pages of amounts to get to where I am.

How can these people really be paying no taxes? Can someone explain it to me?

148 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:18:17am

re: #142 Obdicut

What is the rate of fraud in private insurance companies, and what do they do in order to prevent fraud?

They don't. Their policy is to defraud policy-holders of legitimate benefits by denying any claim they can. They know that 30% of people denied will never even bother to appeal, so that's money in their pockets right there.

149 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:19:02am

Who Does Health-Care Refom Help
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

150 metrolibertarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:19:07am

The protesters are back to calling Barney Frank slurs again:

Anna Edney Tweet:

Protesters calling Frank a [homophobic slur] again today. His partner is with him, recording this time.

I wonder if Glenn Reynolds will demand Barney Frank to apologize like he demanded those who were called the n-word do...

151 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:19:08am

re: #143 pingjockey

Why don't look look at places where tort reform has already passed, like Texas, and see how it worked there? I'll give you a big hint: the costs haven't actually dropped there at all.

Given that the current bill allows more competition by carriers, it's kind of odd that you'd list that as something you'd want to see explored. Shouldn't that be something you support in the bill?

152 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:19:54am

re: #137 Cato the Elder

So Rep. Nunes says "totalitarian tactics" make people "crazy" and you get the occasional spit-on-the-n***r incident.

Wouldn't totalitarian tactics include locking up the spitter(s) and ruining their families? Or, say, an instant shot to the base of the skull?

Instead, Rep. Lewis forgave the guy and refused to press charges.

Wimpy-ass totalitarians we've got these days. It's the wussification of America.

Yep, but Nunes wouldn't know real totalitarianism if it bit him in the ass. I saw what he said. Of course they have the right to say what they said but it also shows I think the real reason why some of these people oppose the bill. Lewis's race and Frank's sexuality have nothing to do with the bill. I am impressed Lewis forgave the guys. That's tough to do but he's always struck me as a classy gentleman.

153 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:20:26am

re: #148 Cato the Elder

I agree: The private insurance companies use mass denial or other procedural steps as a safeguard against fraud that also penalizes very large numbers of non-fraudulent claims.

Sadly, since private insurance companies don't reveal that kind of information, we have no clue what their fraud rate is even with those protections in place.

154 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:20:46am

re: #140 Cato the Elder

I can cite an example. Much ado was made about the escalated number of threats against Obama, rightly so. Then we got the left exploiting this data point. Then, we find out most of the increase was from foreign sources as in the jihadis and angry Arabs who email and blog.

155 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:20:55am

GOP Rep blames 'totalitarian tactics' for Tea Party outbursts.

Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) came to the defense of the racists and bigots who shouted slurs at members of Congress Saturday. The Tea Party protesters shouted the ‘n’ word at African American members of Congress the ‘f’ word at an openly gay member.

Rather than condemn the anachronistic behavior, Nunes blamed the Democrats, saying that they make people do and say crazy things with their tyrannical behavior.

“When you use a totalitarian tactics, people, you know, begin to act crazy,” Nunes told C-SPAN’s Steve Scully Sunday morning when asked about the slurs. “I think that people have every right to say what they want. If they want to smear someone they can do it. It’s not appropriate--I think I would stop short of characterizing the 20,000 people protesting, that all of them were doing that.”

Nunes claimed that Democrats were using the racist behavior of health care protesters to distract from the vote itself. “Of course. I think the left loves to play a couple of incidents here or there, anything to draw attention from what they are really doing and that is that they have 250-some democrats in the House.

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:21:01am

re: #150 metrolibertarian

The protesters are back to calling Barney Frank slurs again:

Anna Edney Tweet:

I wonder if Glenn Reynolds will demand Barney Frank to apologize like he demanded those who were called the n-word do...

Glenn Reynolds done WHUT?

157 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:21:10am

re: #102 van helsing

Since 45% of the wage earners in the US have ZERO federal tax liability, how will federal tax credits help them?


Well, because credits, unlike deductions, can be paid to the taxpayer even if he paid no tax in. These crap started with earned income tax credits and has multiplied since. I have been a receipient this year (although still waiting for my new home buyer credit which they tell me is in the mail.) In years past I found it a little annoying that I was getting a smaller refund than my non-working, food stamp receiving, baby making, relatives. But...that's the way it benefits "the poor".

158 Uninformed Opinion  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:21:53am

re: #154 Rightwingconspirator

I can cite an example. Much ado was made about the escalated number of threats against Obama, rightly so. Then we got the left exploiting this data point. Then, we find out most of the increase was from foreign sources as in the jihadis and angry Arabs who email and blog.

except for that guy that they arrested from my area.

159 blueraven  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:22:11am

re: #136 Rightwingconspirator

I don't mind the ding, as a disagreement, but I really object to your claim any of these nuts should be ignored. It's just wrong. May we please not confuse a call to not exaggerate as a call to ignore?

If it were just this one incident, I might agree. But it is the totality that is a big problem. The Revolution II flags, the talk of the tree of liberty and bloodshed, the appearance of armed people at political rallys.

160 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:22:15am

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

I've never been sure about that. I can't imagine that I am making more than 45% of Americans, and I have to flip through a couple of pages of amounts to get to where I am.

How can these people really be paying no taxes? Can someone explain it to me?

Oh my goodness... we finally are on the same page on a topic. And you wonder why I make the comments I do.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:23:05am

re: #160 Walter L. Newton

Oh my goodness... we finally are on the same page on a topic. And you wonder why I make the comments I do.

No, Walter, I never wonder.

OK, you got any ideas? Because I hear this percentage endlessly, and it makes no sense to me.

162 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:23:14am

re: #150 metrolibertarian

The protesters are back to calling Barney Frank slurs again:

Anna Edney Tweet:

This teaparty people are geniuses....
/
On tape this time.
sheesh.

163 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:23:21am

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

They're not really paying 'no taxes'.

164 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:23:37am

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

I'm not afraid of the armed wackos. I can take care of myself.

Right. But then, nobody is likely to fly a plane into your house. Or bring a Browning to your town-hall meeting vernal equinox party.

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:23:52am

re: #163 Obdicut

They're not really paying 'no taxes'.

What are they not paying? I mean, what does the stat actually describe?

166 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:24:17am

re: #138 Walter L. Newton

Me. And I am not homeless (close at one time.) I am in the military and have been for almost 2 decades except for a brief break in service. I have paid no or close to no taxes about half those years. And no, I don't cheat.

167 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:25:17am

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

I've never been sure about that. I can't imagine that I am making more than 45% of Americans, and I have to flip through a couple of pages of amounts to get to where I am.

How can these people really be paying no taxes? Can someone explain it to me?

I believe the claim is made based on whether people have to send in a check after doing their taxes. Most people, in fact, over-withhold and receive a refund. This creates an illusion of not "paying" taxes, despite having handed the government an interest-free loan over the course of the year. In reality, though, you still pay taxes, even though not having to send in more money or even receiving a refund may mask your payments.

168 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:25:41am

Speaking of taxes, just mailed mine out.

Getting 10 grand back.

Poor planning. I'm pretty embarrassed by it.

But, I'll take it.

169 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:25:44am

re: #163 Obdicut

They're not really paying 'no taxes'.

Right.
They may pay no Federal taxes, but they do pay taxes just like the rest of us.
Regressive taxes that eat a larger % of their income then it does for those above EITC levels.

170 van helsing  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:26:12am

re: #142 Obdicut

What is the rate of fraud in private insurance companies, and what do they do in order to prevent fraud?

I don't know.
But they aren't touting fraud reduction as a funding source.

171 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:26:17am

re: #158 Uninformed Opinion

I'm glad he got caught.

172 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:27:46am

re: #167 SixDegrees

I believe the claim is made based on whether people have to send in a check after doing their taxes. Most people, in fact, over-withhold and receive a refund. This creates an illusion of not "paying" taxes, despite having handed the government an interest-free loan over the course of the year. In reality, though, you still pay taxes, even though not having to send in more money or even receiving a refund may mask your payments.

Wait. That statistic refers to people who pay their taxes through withholding, and don't owe more at the end of the year? THAT'S the 45% of Americans who 'pay no taxes and leave the burden for the rest of society' that I hear so much about?

WOW.

173 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:28:14am

re: #165 SanFranciscoZionist

What are they not paying? I mean, what does the stat actually describe?

Mostly elderly and low income and single parent families. These people still pay FICA and Medicare tax on income.

[Link: taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org...]

174 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:28:55am

re: #139 Killgore Trout

The populist outrage continues at the Capitol today

They look lonely.

Immigration crowds are looking thin this year as compared to last. Here's today's photos so far
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

175 limewash  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:29:10am

re: #134 RurouniKenshin

Sorry had to log in, love the name. Ken-san...sigh..miss shinsengumi fansubs ^_^.

As for guns, that is why we own quite a few.

176 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:30:08am

re: #159 blueraven

Time will tell. Attendance to the Tea Party rallies is plummeting. Yesterday was a tiny blip in terms of attendance. Yet it got a great deal of attention. By the air time its was huge. By attendance, heh, I think we have seen bigger wedding parties.

177 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:30:13am

re: #161 SanFranciscoZionist

No, Walter, I never wonder.

OK, you got any ideas? Because I hear this percentage endlessly, and it makes no sense to me.

No I don't. You know it not my nature to turn for help unless I really feel I have to. There has only been two other times in my life that I did actually look to the government for some support. I wasn't even looking for a total hand holding, just some extra support while I was trying to get things moving again.

I came across the same thing both time. You either have to be totally destitute or a crook. What a stupid way to offer help. In Texas, I was actually told to sell my 300 car, my only transportation to a part time job I had at the time, my only job, in order to get 84 dollars a month for food stamps.

Sell my car. No... I needed a little push, not to be totally dependent on largesse.

There is special interest at both end of the spectrum, the money end and the lack of money end. If some of these programs were designed to be helpful, preventive, and not oppressive, it would accomplish much more.

Most people don't like to be owned by anyone, but all people can use a little help sometimes.

178 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:30:16am

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

I've never been sure about that. I can't imagine that I am making more than 45% of Americans, and I have to flip through a couple of pages of amounts to get to where I am.

How can these people really be paying no taxes? Can someone explain it to me?

Beauracracy in action. The same government that promises they can save you money, reduce the deficit, insure more people, and provide quality of care at the same time, wrote the tax code. You're not making your money the right way or losing it to the right causes. Or maybe you're being too responsible. Or you don't bribe the right congress people. I don't know about that 45% figure, but it probably isn't that far off.

179 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:31:00am

re: #167 SixDegrees

I believe the claim is made based on whether people have to send in a check after doing their taxes. Most people, in fact, over-withhold and receive a refund. This creates an illusion of not "paying" taxes, despite having handed the government an interest-free loan over the course of the year. In reality, though, you still pay taxes, even though not having to send in more money or even receiving a refund may mask your payments.

That can't really be what they mean by that, can it? If so that's easily the most misleading statistic I've ever heard someone claim.

180 William of Orange  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:31:46am

I simply could not withold this from you. I've been playing this so many times and everytime it cracks me up. I simply cannot stop laughing. Forget the first minute, the fun starts after one and a half minutes. I warn you, you'll never look at a horse the same again after watching this.
Hahaha!!!!

181 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:33:04am

re: #164 Cato the Elder

Would you go so far as to say the left will not exaggerate for effect the importance of the most egregious violent protest signs or slurs?

182 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:33:45am

re: #158 Uninformed Opinion

except for that guy that they arrested from my area.

What guy? I missed that. Can you expand?

183 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:33:49am

re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait. That statistic refers to people who pay their taxes through withholding, and don't owe more at the end of the year? THAT'S the 45% of Americans who 'pay no taxes and leave the burden for the rest of society' that I hear so much about?

WOW.

I don't know. That's speculation on my part. But the notion that 45% of wage earners pay NO tax is absurd. The first ~$14k of income isn't taxed; anything above that gets hit for 10%, and things get worse from there.

If 45% of the nation is making less than $15k per year, I'm moving. And based on the service I'm getting at restaurants, I'm tipping way too much.

184 van helsing  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:34:05am

re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait. That statistic refers to people who pay their taxes through withholding, and don't owe more at the end of the year? THAT'S the 45% of Americans who 'pay no taxes and leave the burden for the rest of society' that I hear so much about?

WOW.

Taxes
And I'll mark the 45% as an error on my part, and after more reading I'm not sure I trust their stats process,

Sorry, granddaughter asleep on shoulder, hard to type.

185 subsailor68  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:34:15am

Here's a Washington Post article from last April that talks a bit about the tax situation:

According to the most recent IRS statistics, about 45 million households -- a third of all filers -- owed no federal income tax after taking their credits and deductions in 2006. This year, with the profusion of new credits in the stimulus package, about 65 million households -- or 43 percent of all filers -- are likely to owe no income taxes, according to a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution.

Of course, even filers who have no income tax liability still pay federal taxes, due in large part to the payroll tax, which funds federal insurance programs like Social Security. According to the CBO, taxpayers shelled out an average of 7.5 percent of their earnings in payroll taxes in 2006.

Americans' Tax Burden Near Historic Low

186 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:35:40am

re: #179 Girth

That can't really be what they mean by that, can it? If so that's easily the most misleading statistic I've ever heard someone claim.

Again, I have no idea. Anything over about $14k per year is taxed, beginning at 10% and increasing in steps thereafter. The idea that 45% of the nation's wage earners pay NO Federal tax is absurd.

187 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:35:53am

re: #165 SanFranciscoZionist

I have no clue where the statistic comes from. The highly partisan tax foundation claims that 30% of filers have zero income tax liability. It appears they generated this number theoretically, however.

Normally, when people say 'pay no taxes', they're buying into the dumb meme that only income tax matters.

There are plenty of people who have no or zero federal income tax liability, due to things like the child tax credit, mortgage credits, and a lot of other tax credits. I don't know what the numbers are.

188 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:36:10am

In late 1942 / early 1943, a small handful of students from the University at Munich, along with their philosophy professor, secretly handed out several leaflets filled with writings opposing the German Reich. A quote from one leaflet:

Here we will not pass judgment on the many possible forms of the state - democracy, constitutional monarchy, and so on. But one matter needs to be brought out clearly and unambiguously. Every individual human being has a claim to a useful and just state, a state which secures the freedom of the individual as well as the good of the whole. For, according to God's will, man is intended to pursue his natural goal, his earthly happiness, in self-reliance and self-chosen activity, freely and independently within the community of life and work of the nation.

Another quote from another leaflet:

But our present "state" is the dictatorship of evil. "Oh, we've known that for a long time," I hear you object, "and it isn't necessary to bring that to our attention again." But, I ask you, if you know that, why do you not bestir yourselves, why do you allow these men who are in power to rob you step by step, openly and in secret, of one domain of your rights after another, until one day nothing, nothing at all will be left but a mechanized state system presided over by criminals and drunks? Is your spirit already so crushed by abuse that you forget it is your right - or rather, your *moral duty* - to eliminate this system? But if a man no longer can summon the strength to demand his right, then it is absolutely certain that he will perish. We would deserve to be dispersed through the earth like dust before the wind if we do not muster our powers at this late hour and finally find the courage which up to now we have lacked. Do not hide your cowardice behind a cloak of expediency, for with every new day that you hesitate, failing to oppose this offspring of Hell, your guilt, as in a parabolic curve, grows higher and higher.

They lived in a time and place where those thoughts amounted to treason, and everyone was an informant. A university janitor saw one of them - a 21 year-old girl named Sophie Scholl - throw a handful of leaflets over the balcony overlooking the atrium of the main building. The Gestapo were called, and within 5 days, four of "the White Rose Society" (most of them in their early 20s) had died under one of Hitler's 20 guillotines.

But here, in our dark, brutal, dystopian Hell-on-Earth under Obama, things are SO BAD that vaguely implied assassination threats are met with... some commentary on a blog or two. TYRANNYY!!!11eleventy

189 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:36:12am

People make light of this kind of thing because they (rightly) assume that most freepers, minutemen, militia guys and the rest are not of the intellectual caliber of Winnie the Pooh.

Unfortunately there are among them those who have the intellectual capacity to herd Winnie, Tigger and Eeyore into a troop and point them in the direction of, say, a CDC installation.

Some of the troop leaders advance to the position of ideologues. And some of the ideologues wind up on Glenn Beck's clown rodeo. And more Winnies and Tiggers and Eeyores get wound up and trigger-happy and sore, until something goes pop.

When something big happens - and it will - don't say I didn't warn you. Stop reading those books to your children now!

190 blueraven  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:36:12am

MSNBC reporting...Stupak is a yes on the basis of an executive order to be issued by Obama stating that the Hyde amendment covers this bill.

191 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:37:03am

re: #180 William of Orange

You could've with-held it.

Crazy world we live in, no?

192 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:37:15am
Speaking with TPMDC's Brian Beutler shortly after I chatted with him, Frank recounted a story of an anti-reform protester in the House viewing gallery who had to be led off by security after the protester became disruptive.

Frank said that as the protester was being led away, Republican members on the floor began cheering him on loudly. Frank said the scene was a shock.

"I've never seen members of the house cheering on a guy resisting being kicked out of the chamber," he said. "It's a dangerous situation and The republicans are cheering him on."

193 Lidane  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:37:43am

I just don't have any words for this:

*sigh*

194 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:37:46am

re: #185 subsailor68

Here's a Washington Post article from last April that talks a bit about the tax situation:

According to the most recent IRS statistics, about 45 million households -- a third of all filers -- owed no federal income tax after taking their credits and deductions in 2006. This year, with the profusion of new credits in the stimulus package, about 65 million households -- or 43 percent of all filers -- are likely to owe no income taxes, according to a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution.

Of course, even filers who have no income tax liability still pay federal taxes, due in large part to the payroll tax, which funds federal insurance programs like Social Security. According to the CBO, taxpayers shelled out an average of 7.5 percent of their earnings in payroll taxes in 2006.

Americans' Tax Burden Near Historic Low

That's what I was saying - there's a huge difference between "paying no tax" and "owe[ing] no income taxes" after filing.

195 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:38:16am

re: #102 van helsing

Since 45% of the wage earners in the US have ZERO federal tax liability

[Link: xkcd.com...]

196 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:38:38am

re: #177 Walter L. Newton

Been there too. Also, the laws vary widely state to state. In NM the requirements are way more stringent than in GA but the benefit is more. In GA you would only have to sell a 2nd car and only if they both ran and you didn't have a sick person in the family. In WI they were doing a lot of work getting people jobs and training when I lived in IL, but IL was doing next to nothing (years ago, don't know now.)

197 subsailor68  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:39:31am

re: #194 SixDegrees

That's what I was saying - there's a huge difference between "paying no tax" and "owe[ing] no income taxes" after filing.

Exactly. And it supports Obdicut's point in 187 as well.

198 Lidane  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:39:53am

Also, this guy is a douche for justifying the slurs from yesterday:

199 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:40:02am

re: #181 Rightwingconspirator

Would you go so far as to say the left will not exaggerate for effect the importance of the most egregious violent protest signs or slurs?

I would say they require no exaggeration whatsoever.

200 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:42:05am

re: #185 subsailor68


Americans' Tax Burden Near Historic Low

Of course, this statement is misleading, as well. Overall, it is quite likely true, but that's impacted by the huge unemployment levels that have been in play over the last full tax year, which dramatically lowers the overall tax burden, as does generally depressed earnings. Typically, a fist-pumping cry of "Woo Hoo! I don't owe any Federal income tax!" isn't the first thing uttered by those who've been unemployed for a substantial fraction of the year.

201 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:42:30am

C-span coverage of the proceedings.

202 van helsing  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:42:51am

I see I left out 'income' tax.
Everyone pays ss and medicare. The Post article speaks of income tax as well.

203 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:43:06am

re: #196 Escaped Hillbilly

Been there too. Also, the laws vary widely state to state. In NM the requirements are way more stringent than in GA but the benefit is more. In GA you would only have to sell a 2nd car and only if they both ran and you didn't have a sick person in the family. In WI they were doing a lot of work getting people jobs and training when I lived in IL, but IL was doing next to nothing (years ago, don't know now.)

If behooves state and federal agencies who offer aid to have a good pool of needy participants. Aid programs that are actually helpful and designed from beginning to end on moving people up and off that aid are self defeating to the people who run the programs.

204 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:43:28am

re: #183 SixDegrees

You are oversimplifying. There are lots of kinds of income that are nontaxable, such as military "benefits" like basic housing allowance and separate rations, that are paid as part of our paychecks. Some people hide income as well. Tips, which can be as much as 2/3 some people's income are almost universally under reported. Illegal income is almost never reported in any form. And if you add credits on top of extremely low taxes, the "refund" received can be more than was paid in. No, I don't think the number is 45%, but I don't know what it is either...I doubt anyone does. But it is not as small as you might think either.

205 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:45:24am

re: #204 Escaped Hillbilly

Illegal income is almost never reported in any form.

I'm appalled!

206 bratwurst  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:45:34am

re: #115 Rightwingconspirator

But here is my real point-We have to also consider how very, very well served the left side is by showing and exaggerating the images shown above.

When the same type of images show up at these events again and again and again, at what point do we transcend the realm of exaggeration?

207 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:46:03am

re: #180 William of Orange

Can't laugh over it. More like repulsed.

208 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:46:06am

re: #199 Cato the Elder

I submit this-The jihadis are a far larger threat than sign carrying pretenders and camo jockeys.

209 Kronocide  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:46:39am

re: #205 Cato the Elder

I'm appalled!

I'm oft-palled.

210 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:47:04am

re: #204 Escaped Hillbilly

You are oversimplifying. There are lots of kinds of income that are nontaxable, such as military "benefits" like basic housing allowance and separate rations, that are paid as part of our paychecks. Some people hide income as well. Tips, which can be as much as 2/3 some people's income are almost universally under reported. Illegal income is almost never reported in any form. And if you add credits on top of extremely low taxes, the "refund" received can be more than was paid in. No, I don't think the number is 45%, but I don't know what it is either...I doubt anyone does. But it is not as small as you might think either.

Sure, if you're going to start counting the uncountable, then anything at all is possible. But given that we're interested in actual, countable numbers, I strongly suspect the 45% figure is based on a definition of "liability" that counts only those who pay additional income tax, and excludes withheld taxes entirely. In fact, that's what the article cited clearly states.

211 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:47:33am

re: #197 subsailor68
So one guy guesses that's what was really meant and then you accept it as fact and build an argument from it? NO SOME PEOPLE PAY NO INCOME TAXES. I know how much I paid in and how much I get back. I do my own taxes 2 of every 3 years. Guess how much I paid this year? There are other taxes of course, but that was not the original assertion. (And I paid a huge debilitating and painful amount last year. So its a wash for me.)

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:49:31am

re: #208 Rightwingconspirator

I submit this-The jihadis are a far larger threat than sign carrying pretenders and camo jockeys.

Meaning what? Jihadis are also a far greater threat than serial killers.

213 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:50:25am

re: #208 Rightwingconspirator

How does this conflict relate to the war on terror?

FiXt

214 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:50:30am

re: #210 SixDegrees

Sure, if you're going to start counting the uncountable, then anything at all is possible. But given that we're interested in actual, countable numbers, I strongly suspect the 45% figure is based on a definition of "liability" that counts only those who pay additional income tax, and excludes withheld taxes entirely. In fact, that's what the article cited clearly states.

Did you see my #173?

215 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:50:40am

re: #210 SixDegrees
Where did that 45% figure come from anyway? Who started that? I just realized I never asked.

216 subsailor68  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:51:32am

re: #211 Escaped Hillbilly

So one guy guesses that's what was really meant and then you accept it as fact and build an argument from it? NO SOME PEOPLE PAY NO INCOME TAXES. I know how much I paid in and how much I get back. I do my own taxes 2 of every 3 years. Guess how much I paid this year? There are other taxes of course, but that was not the original assertion. (And I paid a huge debilitating and painful amount last year. So its a wash for me.)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The article I linked to seems to support your statement. Some folks (via deductions etc.) pay no federal income tax, but do pay other federal taxes, such as the payroll tax. Is that what you meant?

217 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:51:32am

re: #215 Escaped Hillbilly

Where did that 45% figure come from anyway? Who started that? I just realized I never asked.

re: #102 van helsing

Since 45% of the wage earners in the US have ZERO federal tax liability, how will federal tax credits help them?

218 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:52:18am

re: #203 Walter L. Newton

God, I hate it when you're right.

219 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:52:19am

"crazy totalitarian tactics" arrggggggh. "Totalitarian Tactics" encourage craziness" They are voting in congress, they might all be dems, but they are voting... that's not totalitarian.

What bs - elections do have consequences, and anything that happens today is reversible, this is how congress works, there were similar periods when the R's controlled Congress.

220 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:52:50am

re: #208 Rightwingconspirator

I submit this-The jihadis are a far larger threat than sign carrying pretenders and camo jockeys.

Yes, one would like to think so, wouldn't one?

221 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:54:35am

re: #219 Thanos

"crazy totalitarian tactics" arrgggh. "Totalitarian Tactics" encourage craziness" They are voting in congress, they might all be dems, but they are voting... that's not totalitarian.

What bs - elections do have consequences, and anything that happens today is reversible, this is how congress works, there were similar periods when the R's controlled Congress.

You are watching the C-Span of Nunes, like I was? I just turned it. That he just lies about the abortion (non) coverage, and the interviewer says nada.

222 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:54:39am

re: #214 KingKenrod

Did you see my #173?

Yes. But if you're going to shift from "wage earners" to all citizens - children, infants, retirees and so on - the discussion becomes utterly meaningless.

223 Kronocide  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:55:12am

re: #219 Thanos

"crazy totalitarian tactics" arrgggh. "Totalitarian Tactics" encourage craziness" They are voting in congress, they might all be dems, but they are voting... that's not totalitarian.

And Dems now have the majorities and are acting as such. Funny how the roles change but the tactics don't.

224 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:55:56am

re: #218 Escaped Hillbilly

God, I hate it when you're right.

In regards to topic like that, I wish I wasn't right.

225 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:56:00am

re: #217 Walter L. Newton
Because you can claim a credit without paying taxes. You file a form and report zero income. Credits are not deductions. Some credits anyway. My mother "bought" a house this year (my nephew is buying but didn't have the credit, mom's name is on the mortgage doc.) so she claims the new home buyer credit. My dad is deceased leaving her an income too small to have a tax liability. She files, and gets the full amount of the credit. It is legal and even designed to work that way.

226 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:57:05am

re: #199 Cato the Elder

You may have just made my point. Time will provide the answer. Feel free to point out actual violence by the Tea Party, or Oath keepers etc as it happens. Funny thing, we both hope nothing of the sort occurs.

Sorry to disagree CATO, that's rare for me to disagree with you.

227 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:57:20am

re: #219 Thanos

"crazy totalitarian tactics" arrgggh. "Totalitarian Tactics" encourage craziness" They are voting in congress, they might all be dems, but they are voting... that's not totalitarian.

What bs - elections do have consequences, and anything that happens today is reversible, this is how congress works, there were similar periods when the R's controlled Congress.

Didn't you hear? We've changed the meaning of totalitarian.

totalitarian %P%tōˌtaliˈte(ə)rēən%P%
adjective
of or relating to a system of government that is led by those guys over there that you disagree with : a totalitarian regime

228 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:58:16am

re: #217 Walter L. Newton
OOps sorry was meaning to reply thusly and hit the RETURN too soon.

Thanks, but I was wondering where he got it from? I mean, was it quoted in some report or article or something.
Sorry again for the mistake.

229 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:58:41am

re: #206 bratwurst

I'm stuck in the catch 22 I mentioned before. And I have made my point as much as I should or more.

230 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 11:59:39am

re: #221 Stanley Sea

You are watching the C-Span of Nunes, like I was? I just turned it. That he just lies about the abortion (non) coverage, and the interviewer says nada.

I don't know how the guys who take the calls stand it.
Crazy nutjobs calling about the JOOOS/commies/muslims and they just look at the camera without rolling their eyes or LOLing.

231 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:01:36pm

So I just finished Michael Pollan's new booklet, Food Rules - An Eater's Manual, that lists 64 "rules" to apply when eating. It takes about a half-hour to get through. Most of the entries are very short - a single sentence, sometimes a short paragraph - and although I think as a whole it's a bit over-the-top in it's disdain for processed food, and overlooks the impossibility of feeding the world's current population using Pollan's preferred sources of wild game, fish and locally collected plants, overall it's a worthwhile read. If you only take a small portion of it seriously - as Pollan himself suggests - you'll probably be better off in the long run.

My personal favorite - It's not food if it arrived through the window of your car.

232 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:01:59pm

While I wait for the page to load, thought I'd mention that I received an email from a friend who claims that Obama Administration is orchestrating an arms embargo against Israel. Has anyone heard about this?

233 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:02:13pm

GOP Talking Points Bingo to pass the time:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

I love Luntz in the middle.
hahahahaha

234 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:03:14pm

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

Meaning that once we have shown how harmful and foolish these signs are we are about done. No need to assume these people are much more than trash talking bullshitters. Like I said their sun sets. TP attendance and popular interest wanes as we speak.

Remember the reaction to the hanged census worker? Assumptions were made, and it tuened out to be a suicide.

Look, I just want to keep it real. Surely that is appropriate?

235 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:03:46pm

re: #203 Walter L. Newton

If you think the 'pool of needy recipients' is gonna dry up, regardless of what you do, I have some wonderful cheap apartments to rent out in Manhattan, for just a small finders fee.

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:04:09pm

re: #232 eclectic infidel

While I wait for the page to load, thought I'd mention that I received an email from a friend who claims that Obama Administration is orchestrating an arms embargo against Israel. Has anyone heard about this?

Yes. We talked about it here a couple nights ago. Basically, it appears that some website made something up, or misinterpreted a JINSA report.

There is no embargo.

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:04:48pm

re: #234 Rightwingconspirator

Meaning that once we have shown how harmful and foolish these signs are we are about done. No need to assume these people are much more than trash talking bullshitters. Like I said their sun sets. TP attendance and popular interest wanes as we speak.

Remember the reaction to the hanged census worker? Assumptions were made, and it tuened out to be a suicide.

Look, I just want to keep it real. Surely that is appropriate?

Sure. I'm just deeply skeptical of the 'jihadis are worse than' argument.

238 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:05:29pm

re: #216 subsailor68

Ok. I didn't realize that was the point you were trying to make as it sounded like you were in agreement that people who owed no income tax at the end of the year because they paid it through income deductions (thus not having to send in a check) were the ones we meant when we said they paid no income tax.

239 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:05:30pm

He's going Orwellian now...

Nunes is posing as the greatest fiscon ever but he's a hypocrite

[Link: nl.newsbank.com...]

[Link: nl.newsbank.com...]

240 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:06:31pm

re: #234 Rightwingconspirator

Meaning that once we have shown how harmful and foolish these signs are we are about done. No need to assume these people are much more than trash talking bullshitters. Like I said their sun sets. TP attendance and popular interest wanes as we speak.

Remember the reaction to the hanged census worker? Assumptions were made, and it tuened out to be a suicide.

Look, I just want to keep it real. Surely that is appropriate?

It is somewhat difficult to muster much outrage over this when simultaneously confronted with the extremely sparse turnout depicted by KT, above. There are certainly loons, certainly with unpleasant attitudes, but they just as certainly seem to be outliers.

241 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:06:49pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

also, that kind of threat always deserves some attention no matter what.

I'm sure the Secret service or the FBI are all over it tho'

"What do you think about Bush's wiretapping bill now?!"

(Actually they probably hated it the first time)

242 subsailor68  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:06:58pm

re: #238 Escaped Hillbilly

Ok. I didn't realize that was the point you were trying to make as it sounded like you were in agreement that people who owed no income tax at the end of the year because they paid it through income deductions (thus not having to send in a check) were the ones we meant when we said they paid no income tax.

Ah! Got ya. No, I was agreeing with your statement, and noting that the article I linked supported what you were saying. All good.

243 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:07:24pm

re: #232 eclectic infidel

This is the blog post to which my friend made the claim:

[Link: www.pennwellblogs.com...]

The post itself is based on this news bit:

The latest development in Obama's arms embargo against Israel happened Thursday. World Tribune reported the Administration ordered the U.S. military to divert a shipment of smart bunker-buster bombs from Israel to a military base in Diego Garcia. They said the shipment of 387 smart munitions had been slated to join pre-positioned U.S. military equipment in Israel Air Force bases.
244 Lidane  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:07:49pm

More crazy in the halls of Congress. Emphasis is mine:

Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) just told our Brian Beutler that a short time ago, a protestor watching the House proceedings from the gallery got rowdy, yelling "Kill the Bill." He resisted four Capitol Hill police officers trying to remove him from the gallery and as this was happening he was cheered loudly by dozens of House Republicans.

"I've never seen members of the House cheering on a guy resisting being kicked out of the gallery," said Frank. "It's a dangerous situation and the Republicans are cheering him on."

In general, Frank says things seem a bit calmer with the protestors than they were yesterday.

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

245 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:08:24pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

Well not "worse" but the larger real threat. I am much more comfortable with Obama near a bunch of TP attendees than when he travels to Middle east countries. Just my feeling of course. I really worry when/if he travels like that.

246 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:08:53pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks. Been busy with activism lately, haven't had much time to check lgf till today.
Glad it's just bad rumor.

247 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:09:17pm

re: #244 Lidane

What the hell? Seriously, that's just so goddamn classless. Fucking making the cops jobs harder. Assholes.

248 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:09:52pm

re: #240 SixDegrees

By way of replies to several good people here I have beat this to death.
Moving on.

249 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:10:00pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you recall which thread it was discussed on?

250 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:11:44pm

re: #6 Charles

Notice also the image of Obama with a Hitler mustache emerging from the donkey's ass.

I think I'm noticing a pattern here :P


Sign w/ Pres. Obama shoving the HCR bill up Uncle Sam's backside:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

[Link: twitpic.com...]

Ram it down our throats in '09
We'll shove it up your ass in '10

[Link: tweetphoto.com...]

Hey Congress
Ram Obamacare down our throats
and we'll shove it
up your *** (guess - obscured line)
251 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:12:10pm

re: #226 Rightwingconspirator

You may have just made my point. Time will provide the answer. Feel free to point out actual violence by the Tea Party, or Oath keepers etc as it happens. Funny thing, we both hope nothing of the sort occurs.

Sorry to disagree CATO, that's rare for me to disagree with you.

Sadly, given the superheated nature of the debate and the apocolyptogasmic character of the rhetoric ("The Death of the Constitution!" - "The End of the Republic!" - "Hitler-Stalin Pact to Destroy America!" - "Blue Pills for the Elderly!!!1!") now being promulgated at the very highest levels, I daily expect the news that some Christo-jihadist has outdone Tim McVeigh someplace in the Homeland. It is, in fact, nearly inevitable. The potent mix of race-hate, fear of inevitable demographic change (why do you think so many nirther types are against the census? - they don't want their eventual WASP minority status to get out), religious intolerance, and good old bloodlust practically guarantees an explosion. A big, literal explosion.

252 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:12:26pm

Breitbart is providing a bit of entertainment on this rainy Sunday (so are the Republicans spewing their spewings on C-SPAN)

@andrewbreitbart
Why is Steny Hoyer in Los Angeles sitting on Anthony Weiner's shoulders screaming the N word into my home? Weird.

253 SpaceJesus  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:12:47pm

freeper live health care thread

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]


threats of violence, repenting before our lord and savior jayzus, and crying.

254 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:12:52pm

re: #250 simoom

Well if they like anal, that's their business :p.

255 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:13:00pm

re: #232 eclectic infidel

It seems to be the weird answer to the inexplicable shipment. Some say its Obama getting ready to hammer Iran, some say its a diverted Israeli shipment. My point at the time we talked about this before was some key facts are missing in action.

256 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:13:36pm

re: #243 eclectic infidel

This is the blog post to which my friend made the claim:

[Link: www.pennwellblogs.com...]

The post itself is based on this news bit:

Though I frequently fail, I try not to shoot the messenger. "World Tribune" is on Alex Jones' blogroll. That alone instantly discredits it as a source of anything other than broken-clock-correct-twice-daily bullshit.

[Link: www.infowars.com...]

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:15:07pm

re: #249 eclectic infidel

Do you recall which thread it was discussed on?

This one. Sorry took me a minute to track it down.

258 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:15:22pm

Sign that reads, "Public Enemy" with Pres. Obama's head pictured underneath, and Calvin (of Calvin and Hobbes) peeing on Obama:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

(left-hand edge of the photo)

259 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:15:28pm

re: #256 negativ

Thanks for the heads up. Do you recall on which LGF thread this topic was discussed?

260 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:16:13pm

re: #251 Cato the Elder

You know, one of the things I wonder is 'how much of a real connection is there between these over-the-top breast-beating acts and the real militia types who have the craziness and means to actually pull something like that off?'

I do agree that its something that shouldn't be dismissed, but its an interesting side question >

261 Lidane  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:16:20pm

re: #253 SpaceJesus

freeper live health care thread

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

threats of violence, repenting before our lord and savior jayzus, and crying.

Threats of assassination are on Twitter now, too:

[Link: jezebel.com...]

262 Jadespring  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:16:25pm

re: #253 SpaceJesus

freeper live health care thread

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

threats of violence, repenting before our lord and savior jayzus, and crying.

I get a 404 not found for that link.

263 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:16:29pm

re: #251 Cato the Elder

Sadly, given the superheated nature of the debate and the apocolyptogasmic character of the rhetoric

Bob Dylan sucks! My office building awaits; fire up your airplane.

264 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:18:01pm

re: #260 windsagio

You know, one of the things I wonder is 'how much of a real connection is there between these over-the-top breast-beating acts and the real militia types who have the craziness and means to actually pull something like that off?'

I do agree that its something that shouldn't be dismissed, but its an interesting side question >

Perhaps none. Or rather, the breast-beaters are seen as useful idiots and objects of misdirection for the ones in the compounds quietly making other plans.

265 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:18:54pm

re: #261 Lidane

Threats of assassination are on Twitter now, too:

[Link: jezebel.com...]

OMG. Who is that guy? Who cares, SS is on it's way.

266 SpaceJesus  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:19:02pm

re: #262 Jadespring

I get a 404 not found for that link.

woops

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

oh, and here's a gem

"We have 3 options to beat back this communist coup.....

1. Ballot box - in 2010 & 2012 to overturn this and the new "programs" coming (Amnesty, Cap&Tax, etc)

2. Legal box - i.e. lawsuits and hope SCOTUS overturns on basis of unconstitionality

3. Ammo box - No explanation needed
1,977 posted on Sunday, March 21, 2010 1:19:33 PM by newfreep (Palin/DeMint 2012 - Bolton: Secy of State) "

267 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:19:11pm

re: #264 Cato the Elder

That makes a lot of sense.

Also, it might be more dangerous if they think people would actually support them.

268 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:19:20pm

Televangelist Hair C-Street staying Todd Tiahrt

269 Ojoe  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:20:39pm

OT:

Subject: Position Statement of the U.S. Economy with Reference to Us Sailors!

We, in retirement, take exception to everyone saying that Bernanke, Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are spending like drunken sailors………

When we were drunken sailors, we quit when we ran out of money.

(from someone I know, yes a sailor.)

270 SpaceJesus  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:21:33pm

re: #261 Lidane

Threats of assassination are on Twitter now, too:

[Link: jezebel.com...]

saw that earlier. i would vote for any politician right now who ran on a platform of imprisoning all conservatives.

271 Athens Runaway  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:22:46pm

re: #270 SpaceJesus

saw that earlier. i would vote for any politician right now who ran on a platform of imprisoning all conservatives.

Liberal tolerance.

272 Ojoe  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:23:28pm

re: #270 SpaceJesus

That's extreme also, S. J.

273 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:23:40pm

re: #271 Athens Runaway

Its so good when people get SJ's schtick.

Or rather it would be good.

274 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:24:07pm

More signs:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Obama:
Take your flight
now and don't ever
come back.
We'll Manage!

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Hey Nancy:
St. Joseph won't
answer you
because Lucifer
already has!!!
275 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:24:20pm

re: #200 SixDegrees

re: #216 subsailor68

According to the most recent IRS statistics, about 45 million households -- a third of all filers -- owed no federal income tax after taking their credits and deductions in 2006. This year, with the profusion of new credits in the stimulus package, about 65 million households -- or 43 percent of all filers -- are likely to owe no income taxes, according to a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution.

This is not saying they owed no additional taxes (at the end of the year), it says owed no federal income tax.
I think it means what it says.

re: #203 Walter L. Newton

Still wish Walter L. was less correct.
Now I will shut up for a while.

276 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:24:27pm

re: #266 SpaceJesus


1,977 posted on Sunday, March 21, 2010 1:19:33 PM by newfreep (Palin/DeMint 2012 - Bolton: Secy of State) "

Apparently this genius really wants Obama to have a second term.

277 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:25:09pm

re: #265 Stanley Sea

OMG. Who is that guy? Who cares, SS is on it's way.

He'll be singing a different tune when he suddenly finds himself being traded amongts members of the Arayan Brotherhood for an unopened pack of cigarettes.

278 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:25:35pm

re: #258 simoom

Sign that reads, "Public Enemy" with Pres. Obama's head pictured underneath, and Calvin (of Calvin and Hobbes) peeing on Obama:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

(left-hand edge of the photo)

Nice find

279 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:26:02pm

re: #275 Escaped Hillbilly

I think he's substantially less correct than you do :P

They're secure in the fact that there'll always be people who need their services. In fact the problem is that they're totally swamped.

280 SpaceJesus  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:26:03pm

re: #276 Girth

Apparently this genius really wants Obama to have a second term.


sometimes i find it hard to believe these people aren't just trolls trying to make conservatives look bad.

281 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:26:03pm

re: #270 SpaceJesus

So sorry, Manzanar has been reduced to a memorial park. A memorial to such folly and a worthy reminder to not ever do that again.

282 Athens Runaway  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:26:39pm

re: #273 windsagio

Its so good when people get SJ's schtick.

Or rather it would be good.

Ah, so advocating the imprisonment of all people that one disagrees with, even in jest, is okay?

In that case, "I would vote for any politician right now who ran on a platform of imprisoning all liberals."

It's a joke, see?

283 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:27:05pm

OT: I don't really do twitter, but I do wonder about the channel #assasinations.

284 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:27:37pm

re: #282 Athens Runaway

SJ likes to put out those bait, just to see who bites. It can be fun.

285 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:27:48pm

re: #282 Athens Runaway

I might posit that you're giving him anger, which is what he wants. I never said it was a joke :P

He was seeking an outraged response (seems to me) and you gave it to him in spades.

286 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:28:02pm

re: #284 Rightwingconspirator

yeah exactly that.

287 Areozol  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:28:38pm

Guys, what you could expect from people, who are watching Glenn Beck, listening to Alex Jones and cursing Cameron for his latest action-advanture movie...?

288 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:28:50pm

re: #282 Athens Runaway
re: #286 windsagio


Hey I'll vote for any politician who would jail all the incumbent politicians.
///

289 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:29:06pm

One pet peeve of mine in politics is acting like you're oppressed when you are expressing free speech. It was just as stupid in the Bush years as it is now. Some people just love having a victim complex I guess.

290 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:29:31pm

re: #280 SpaceJesus

sometimes i find it hard to believe these people aren't just trolls trying to make conservatives look bad.

Poe's Law.

291 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:30:12pm

re: #289 HappyWarrior

If you're the victim you can't be expected to actually fix your situation. Its all the outrage without any pressure to change things.

292 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:30:18pm
293 SpaceJesus  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:30:19pm

re: #285 windsagio

I might posit that you're giving him anger, which is what he wants. I never said it was a joke :P

He was seeking an outraged response (seems to me) and you gave it to him in spades.

it was both

294 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:31:03pm

SJ, you really ought to change your avatar to Image: trollface.jpg

295 sergeant major  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:31:04pm

Charles,
I'm not parting ways with the right they're pushing/throwing/ me I don't see a positive future for the Republican Party. Anyone who associates with these fucking idiots should not and will not ever be elected.
I am truly embarrassed by the article below.

[Link: www.mcclatchydc.com...]

296 Athens Runaway  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:31:09pm

re: #285 windsagio

I might posit that you're giving him anger, which is what he wants. I never said it was a joke :P


You are correct in believing that you're allowed to posit, but my posting around here may have slacked off in the past year or so, and I've been here long enough to understand who SJ is and what his schtick is.

He was seeking an outraged response (seems to me) and you gave it to him in spades.


Hardly. It was just a disinterested observation.

297 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:31:12pm

re: #282 Athens Runaway

Lighten up Francis.

298 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:31:40pm

re: #263 negativ

Bob Dylan sucks! My office building awaits; fire up your airplane.

I would never harm anyone merely for dissing Dylan.

Say something bad about Norah Jones, however, and all bets are off.

299 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:32:31pm

re: #292 Killgore Trout

Odd indeed.

However, I do feel that we are having this crammed down our throats a bit. Perhaps that would have been a better image.

300 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:33:04pm

re: #293 SpaceJesus

That's why I love you man >>

301 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:33:18pm

re: #278 Killgore Trout

Nice find

Thanks. Another, somewhat closer shot of the Calvin peeing sign, far right of the photo this time:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

302 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:33:50pm

re: #291 windsagio

If you're the victim you can't be expected to actually fix your situation. Its all the outrage without any pressure to change things.

True that. It's alot easier to find fault with everything than not to offer any solution up.

303 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:34:52pm

C-SPAN Live Stream getting testy.

304 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:35:25pm
305 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:35:25pm

re: #301 simoom

Thanks. Another, somewhat closer shot of the Calvin peeing sign, far right of the photo this time:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I see Abe Lincoln in the crowd too.

306 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:35:58pm

re: #303 Killgore Trout

Man, no kidding, I expect them to start debating Thai style any minute.

307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:36:06pm

re: #305 Killgore Trout

Hey, Blinkin'!

308 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:36:40pm

re: #303 Killgore Trout

C-SPAN Live Stream getting testy.

I've been watching.

OMG!
Things just go real testy....

309 Escaped Hillbilly  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:37:04pm

re: #279 windsagio

I promised to shut up, so forgive me just one more, then really I will, really. I know many are swamped. That means there are too many people in need of service. Unfortunately, the way funding is directed and utilized, there is very little incentive to create and effectively run programs that get people permanantly off the roles (except by icking them off ready or not). It is not the fault of the poor overworked social worker filling out the forms in their cubicles. It is all the pointy haired bosses out there who don't want their departments or their budgets shrinking. When I was a drug and alcohol counselor we had similar problems. Really getting people well is the goal of the street level workers, not the administrators.

310 Athens Runaway  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:37:45pm

Thanks for all the downdings, guys. :)

311 claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:37:55pm

re: #275 Escaped Hillbilly

I think it means what it says.

Yes, it does.


Tax Day, April 15, is looming for the nearly 142 million Americans who will file a tax return for income earned in 2009. While most taxpayers worry about paying the correct amount and even pay for professional assistance to make sure they do, many millions of tax filers will be "nonpayers."

A nonpaying tax return is one filed by an individual or couple who, thanks to legal credits and deductions, owes nothing. Most people who get a refund after filing their tax returns are not nonpayers; they have overpaid their taxes through paycheck withholding and are being refunded just a tiny portion of that payment.

But during 2008, more than a third of all tax returns resulted in complete nonpayment; that is, people got back every dollar that was withheld from their paychecks during the year. Many got quite a bit more, turning Tax Day into a payday.

Two Records Set in 2008: Most Nonpayers and Highest-Earning Nonpayers
Nonpaying status used to be a sure sign of poverty or near-poverty, but Congress and the President have changed the tax laws to pull much of the middle class into the growing pool of nonpayers. The income level at which a typical family of four will owe no income taxes has risen rapidly, now topping $51,000.

As a result, recently released IRS data for the 2008 tax year show that a record 51.6 million filers had no income tax obligation.[1] That means more than 36 percent of all Americans who filed a tax return for 2008 were nonpayers, raising serious doubts about the ability of the income tax system to continue funding the federal government's ballooning expenditures.

Maybe not 45%, but if correct it's about 1/3 of filers.

312 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:38:01pm

Man, Louise Slaughter is not taking any of the Republican's bull shit.

313 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:38:07pm

re: #309 Escaped Hillbilly

haha sorry, I missed you saying you were done. I'll drop it :p

314 bratwurst  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:38:23pm

re: #283 windsagio

OT: I don't really do twitter, but I do wonder about the channel #assasinations.

I check it out at the end of the day while I sit in my high-back red upholstered chair with a snifter of brandy...helps me unwind.

315 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:39:28pm

re: #310 Athens Runaway

no problem, have another :D

316 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:40:21pm

One interesting thing I've noticed is mixed deep in the crowed are a few pro-HCR reform folks. Pretty gutsy :P.

Here's an example of one who made it pretty close to the stage:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Pass HCR
Let the noisy minority find
something else to be wrong about

Also, in the same photo, on the right-side is a NWO sign:

FREEDOM vs TYRANNY
* czars * fascists
* socialism
* new world order
317 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:40:27pm

re: #298 Cato the Elder

I would never harm anyone merely for dissing Dylan.

Say something bad about Norah Jones, however, and all bets are off.

Now see, there we agree. I'm a big fan of other members of her family as well.

318 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:40:54pm

An image on NPR from the immigration rally. Protesters punch an effigy of an ICE officer. This is strange, as the immigration rallies often exemplify the high ground of public protest.

319 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:41:08pm

re: #299 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Odd indeed.

However, I do feel that we are having this crammed down our throats a bit. Perhaps that would have been a better image.

I wonder if "crammed down out throats" is really a proper way to look at this HCR bell, which will probably become law with in the next 24 hours.

None of use are privy to the amount of information, statistics, facts and figures and even proprietary data, and insight, as our government, politicians, agencies and various staff people have.

We can sit on the outside looking in, developing opinions based on foggy, partial understanding, anecdotal data, over-the-fence philosophy and flawed understandings, but we do not have the resources to fully realize the depth of the problem.

And the same thing can be said about the solution. It is nearly impossible for us to be able to pull together the varied sources of answers that our elected leaders can. That's what a representative government is all about.

I suggest that we trust the system. It's worked for almost 250 years, and it's much stronger than it's weakest link... those who need help, those who our obligation is to, our elected leaders.

320 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:41:54pm

re: #309 Escaped Hillbilly

I promised to shut up, so forgive me just one more, then really I will, really. I know many are swamped. That means there are too many people in need of service. Unfortunately, the way funding is directed and utilized, there is very little incentive to create and effectively run programs that get people permanantly off the roles (except by icking them off ready or not). It is not the fault of the poor overworked social worker filling out the forms in their cubicles. It is all the pointy haired bosses out there who don't want their departments or their budgets shrinking. When I was a drug and alcohol counselor we had similar problems. Really getting people well is the goal of the street level workers, not the administrators.

I agree with you... hope you don't have any bad dreams over it.

321 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:42:08pm

re: #316 simoom

One interesting thing I've noticed is mixed deep in the crowed are a few pro-HCR reform folks. Pretty gutsy :P.

Here's an example of one who made it pretty close to the stage:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Ha, I am sure the Russian czars would be delighted to know that they are Socialists in some people's books.

322 SpaceJesus  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:43:16pm

rodan at stalkerblog weighs in on health care vote today

"This is all about Eugenics. This is the means through the Progressives will create their new society. Their new man or master race they have been wanting to do for over 150 since Marx called for the elimination of inferior races and people. This is what their whole agenda of control is based on."

323 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:43:27pm

Heh, I like the guy with the gavel.

324 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:43:33pm

OT, but too good not to share: Louis Armstrong does death metal (h/t to WUB for pointing this out to me)

325 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:43:42pm

re: #321 HappyWarrior

Ha, I am sure the Russian czars would be delighted to know that they are Socialists in some people's books.

History is not your average tea partier's strong suit.

326 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:44:19pm

re: #325 Girth

History is not your average tea partier's strong suit.

Indeed, indeed.

327 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:45:15pm
328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:46:27pm

re: #327 Super-ego

Ah geez. What was your old nic?

329 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:46:49pm

re: #327 Super-ego

maybe you should criticize these guys before you can say the left is just as bad?

Otherwise, it looks like Tu Quoque-style deflection.

330 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:47:02pm

re: #328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Lord that was fast

331 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:47:20pm

Was it the link?

332 Super-ego  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:47:21pm

re: #328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ah geez. What was your old nic?

What was that about>

333 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:47:33pm

re: #328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I didn't click his link, was there something there that gave him away?

334 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:47:58pm

That was quick. Of course it was wrong for the left to do it to Bush. The far left is also doing it to Obama too. Read a story about the anti war protests and apparently they were calling Obama a war criminal.

335 Super-ego  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:48:39pm

re: #333 windsagio

I didn't click his link, was there something there that gave him away?

Is was a link to signs bashing Bush, just like the Obama signs.

336 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:48:51pm

Zombietime is a no linky site I think.

337 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:49:02pm

re: #332 Super-ego

I don't think links to zombie's blog are welcome here.

338 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:49:12pm

Some odd ones:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

How many
Hatians must die
before you
Impeach
Obama

Three child protesters (7 year olds maybe?):
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Socialized
Medicine
Kills

A kid bizarrely wearing a partial Elmo costume (head and feet):
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

339 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:49:12pm

re: #332 Super-ego

Zombietime links always get deleted.

340 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:49:42pm

re: #335 Super-ego

Big time, no linky site. Sorry.

I thought you might be a sock...

Are you?

341 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:49:44pm

From Ezra's Tweets

GOP getting confused and condemning "the Louisiana purchase." Oops.

342 Super-ego  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:49:54pm

re: #337 Floral Giraffe

I don't think links to zombie's blog are welcome here.

Ok. Weird, but LGF has that right.

343 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:50:14pm

re: #338 simoom

A kid bizarrely wearing a partial Elmo costume (head and feet):
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I'm glad to see the kid's involved.

344 jvic  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:50:18pm

My comment yesterday described how my anti-Obamacare activism stopped on a dime.

Today, I find that Instapundit thinks this is a serious analysis:

What they don’t realize is that today’s vote isn’t the end, but just a new beginning in the debate over health care. Buckle up, because if they manage to cobble together enough votes to pass the Senate Health Bill today, we’re set for weeks and perhaps months of a constitutional and political crisis the likes of which we haven’t seen in our lifetimes.

...Also, it [Obamacare--jvic] is in direct conflict with state law in at least two states, Idaho and Virginia.

While the legal battles wage on, expect an enormous public back-lash against the Democrats.

1. How about the Constitutional crisis from the Clinton impeachment?

2. The author seems unaware that (constitutional) federal law supersedes state law.

3. ...expect an enormous public back-lash against the Democrats. Yup, even bigger than the enormous public backlash in November 1998.
*** *** ***
These clowns might be in for quite a surprise.

345 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:51:59pm

re: #342 Super-ego

There's a history. Question it no more.

346 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:52:11pm

re: #342 Super-ego

Ok. Weird, but LGF has that right.

Not weird considering the cuthroat crap Z posted against Charles after years and years of Charles linking to him and building his site.

347 Super-ego  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:52:32pm

re: #340 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Big time, no linky site. Sorry.

I thought you might be a sock...

Are you?

I just thought it was fair to point out the same vitriolic signs were there for Bush too.

I wears socks. Does that count?

348 Super-ego  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:53:03pm

re: #345 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's a history. Question it no more.

Got it!

349 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:53:29pm

re: #343 Walter L. Newton

That kid's creepy lookin'.

350 avanti  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:53:33pm

Stupak to do a 4 PM presser, Politico says the deal is done.

351 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:53:48pm

re: #347 Super-ego

He/She's a sock. Being too purposefully obtuse.

352 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:53:54pm

re: #348 Super-ego

That stuff being said, your post is still tu quoque bullcrap.

353 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:54:28pm

re: #338 simoom

Elmo kid is freaky.

354 Super-ego  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:54:54pm

re: #351 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He/She's a sock. Being too purposefully obtuse.

Seriously, what is a freakin' "sock?"

355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:55:11pm

On Drudge, now...

FLASH: Senate Republicans found a provision in the new House health care bill that likely makes it ineligible for expedited 'reconciliation' procedures in the Senate. Dems refused to meet with GOP and Parliamentarian.... Developing....

What does this mean? Anybody care to take a shot?

356 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:55:33pm

re: #317 negativ

Now see, there we agree. I'm a big fan of other members of her family as well.

Me too. I saw Ravi and Anoushka Shankar in a father-daughter concert a few years back. It was soul-uplifting.

357 Super-ego  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:56:01pm

re: #355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

On Drudge, now...

What does this mean? Anybody care to take a shot?

Politics at it's best. It's war time.

358 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:56:31pm

re: #349 windsagio

That kid's creepy lookin'.

So... didn't we have a conversation yesterday about a 7 or 11 year old kid making pro health care reform comments on the radio?

359 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:56:48pm

re: #355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Last gasp BS I'd bet.

360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:57:06pm

re: #354 Super-ego

A sock is someone who used to be here, was shown the door (via the big ban stick), and sneaked (snuck?) back in using another name.

If you are not a sock, you are doing an excellent impression of one.

And, if you are not a sock, my apologies.

361 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:57:14pm

re: #355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

On Drudge, now...
What does this mean? Anybody care to take a shot?

The Democrats are fucked?

362 claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:57:46pm

Why can't they just vote on the Goddamn bill like a regular bill?

363 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:57:51pm

re: #355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

On Drudge, now...

What does this mean? Anybody care to take a shot?

They think Tahrt's parliamentary maneuver to scuttle this is going to work when this is just basically a test vote to see where they are. probably 2-3 more votes before the real vote.

364 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:58:23pm

re: #355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

On Drudge, now...

What does this mean? Anybody care to take a shot?

It means the GOP is going to try to find procedural objections to block the vote. At the very least they're just going to raise questions to bog down the process. They probably won't succeed.

365 Super-ego  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:58:50pm

re: #360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A sock is someone who used to be here, was shown the door (via the big ban stick), and sneaked (snuck?) back in using another name.

If you are not a sock, you are doing an excellent impression of one.

And, if you are not a sock, my apologies.

Got it! I'm not. Have Charles check IP's if you need to. Nothing has changed since my birth as a lizard.

366 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:58:55pm

re: #361 Walter L. Newton

You read lawyer speak, what does it mean? Do you know?

367 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 12:59:56pm

re: #365 Super-ego

No, no problem. There are some pesky re-joiners.

I ain't the police anyway. Should've kept my mouth shut.

368 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:00:01pm

re: #352 windsagio

That stuff being said, your post is still tu quoque bullcrap.

"tu quoque" rebuttals are becoming quite common around here, but in this and many other cases, they're being applied incorrectly. Pointing out that the opposition has engaged in the same sort of behavior is not, in itself, a tu quoque fallacy, since the comparison is not being made to discredit the opposition's point of view in most of these cases. Rather, it is simply pointing out that both sides are equally guilty of abhorrent behavior; it is raised merely as an observation, not necessarily as criticism.

More here.

369 Super-ego  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:00:12pm

re: #362 claire

Why can't they just vote on the Goddamn bill like a regular bill?

Wouldn't that be the logical thing to do?

370 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:02:04pm

re: #369 Super-ego

Wouldn't that be the logical thing to do?

The whole health care debate has been rather lacking in logic...

371 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:03:15pm

Basically the "I didn't hear you" and "The gentlemen's time expired before he finished his question" means that his point wasn't acknowledged, and that gives the Dems strategerizing time to properly foil the point of order during next vote or the one after.

372 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:03:58pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

Didn't think you were in that one. But yes, there was a discussion on the subject.

It would be really something if that kid had also done his thing in an oversized muppet head.

Not good, but it'd be something.

373 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:04:07pm

re: #362 claire

Why can't they just vote on the Goddamn bill like a regular bill?


This is pretty standard stuff. The reconciliation has been used plenty of times in the past. The Bush tax cuts and plenty of other things have passed by reconciling the House and Senate versions of a bill. Despite what the wingnuts claim there's nothing unusual going on.

374 van helsing  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:04:10pm

re: #215 Escaped Hillbilly

Where did that 45% figure come from anyway? Who started that? I just realized I never asked.

Sorry. Busy day.
This

Here's a Washington Post article from last April that talks a bit about the tax situation:

According to the most recent IRS statistics, about 45 million households -- a third of all filers -- owed no federal income tax after taking their credits and deductions in 2006. This year, with the profusion of new credits in the stimulus package, about 65 million households -- or 43 percent of all filers -- are likely to owe no income taxes, according to a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution.

Of course, even filers who have no income tax liability still pay federal taxes, due in large part to the payroll tax, which funds federal insurance programs like Social Security. According to the CBO, taxpayers shelled out an average of 7.5 percent of their earnings in payroll taxes in 2006.

Americans' Tax Burden Near Historic Low


From sub sailor 68 post
And here - Tax foundation which someone said was 'highly partisan'. Indeed, there is a statement that they derived their figures from IRS data and their own calculations so it bears more scrutiny.

And this is only about federal income tax, and like a dumbass I did not make that clear upthread.

I blame the granddaughter...

375 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:04:20pm

re: #355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

On Drudge, now...

What does this mean? Anybody care to take a shot?

No clue at all. Drudge certainly isn't the best source for impartial information. In any case, it's a challenge based on parliamentary procedures, so it will be decided by the house parliamentarian. On the whole, it's unlikely to be sustained, given that the parliamentarian has already been involved in these matters to a very large degree and probably wouldn't have missed such a thing.

But, stranger things have happened...

376 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:04:35pm

re: #366 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You read lawyer speak, what does it mean? Do you know?

No.

377 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:04:57pm

re: #373 Killgore Trout

This is pretty standard stuff. The reconciliation has been used plenty of times in the past. The Bush tax cuts and plenty of other things have passed by reconciling the House and Senate versions of a bill. Despite what the wingnuts claim there's nothing unusual going on.

Free viagra for Seniors was passed pretty much this way iirc

378 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:05:25pm

re: #364 Killgore Trout

It means the GOP is going to try to find procedural objections to block the vote. At the very least they're just going to raise questions to bog down the process. They probably won't succeed.

And if they do succeed they own the earmarks that don't get reconciled out, since they'll have blocked the fix.

379 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:05:29pm

re: #362 claire

Why can't they just vote on the Goddamn bill like a regular bill?

Because if they lose they'll be humiliated. And I'll be doing the Happy Dance.

380 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:05:37pm

re: #368 SixDegrees

In his case he was raising it as a deflection.

And it was critical, you're just choosing not to see it.

*Funny thing, I have that page bookmarked, and I always check ot make sure its an appropriate usage before I make the accusation.

381 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:05:54pm

re: #362 claire

Why can't they just vote on the Goddamn bill like a regular bill?

That's basically what they're doing. Before a bill can be voted on, it must be subjected to a period of debate, which is what's currently taking place.

382 jvic  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:06:24pm

re: #362 claire

Why can't they just vote on the Goddamn bill like a regular bill?

My understanding is that if they followed normal procedure, the bill would die in the Senate via filibuster. (Now that Scott Brown has replaced Ted Kennedy, the Democrats+Sanders can no longer break a filibuster on a party-line vote.)

383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:06:55pm

re: #377 Thanos

Free viagra for Senators was passed pretty much this way iirc

sneaky me... only had to add a letter and change one.

384 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:07:52pm

re: #356 Cato the Elder

I saw them at the McFarlin Auditorium on the SMU campus a few years back. Might have been the same tour, ~2005 or so. They had a percussionist whose name I SEVERELY regret not knowing. The last song of the show was an absolute barn-burner that must be the Raga equivalent of Voodoo Chile. It was somewhere around 40 minutes long, no exaggeration. It was the exact sort of thing that makes it very easy to mock elaborate big-name productions that feature extensive choreography and million-dollar computerized stage lighting.

385 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:08:35pm

re: #380 windsagio

In his case he was raising it as a deflection.

And it was critical, you're just choosing not to see it.

*Funny thing, I have that page bookmarked, and I always check ot make sure its an appropriate usage before I make the accusation.

I see; we're all supposed to be attacking one another at every opportunity. I must have missed the memo.

386 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:10:16pm

I guess I should be cleaning my guns, since Jesus told me that as soon as this passes a brownshirt disguised as a census worker will be knocking on my door to figure out how many people in my household will need to be hauled in front of a death panel.
/

387 Super-ego  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:10:30pm

re: #380 windsagio

In his case he was raising it as a deflection.

And it was critical, you're just choosing not to see it.

*Funny thing, I have that page bookmarked, and I always check ot make sure its an appropriate usage before I make the accusation.

There was no deflection intended. The post was trying to point out that "both sides are equally guilty of abhorrent behavior."

Don't try and read my mind, please.

388 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:12:14pm

re: #387 Super-ego

We spent quite some time on this upthread. Did you see any of that? Its said and done.

389 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:12:45pm

Stupak is a yes.

390 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:13:11pm

Yeah, voting in bills on Christmas Eve and Sunday afternoons. Nothing to see here, just the usual bullshit. Move along little doggies....

391 Super-ego  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:13:12pm

re: #388 Rightwingconspirator

We spent quite some time on this upthread. Did you see any of that? Its said and done.

Yes sir. Just defending my position.

Done.

392 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:13:40pm

re: #380 windsagio

In his case he was raising it as a deflection.

And it was critical, you're just choosing not to see it.

*Funny thing, I have that page bookmarked, and I always check ot make sure its an appropriate usage before I make the accusation.

You really not that clever... you're much more transparent than President Obama... "It's a rebuttal." "Well, ok, it's not a rebuttal, but it's a deflection." What next... "Ok, it's not a deflection... but... but... we'll dammit, I just don't like it."

Using your logic, you can minimize a comment down to being worthless at the flip of your tongue.

That's not debate, that's ignoring the point.

393 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:13:40pm

re: #389 Stanley Sea

Stupak is a yes.

Where'd you hear that?

394 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:13:55pm

re: #362 claire

Why can't they just vote on the Goddamn bill like a regular bill?

They are.

395 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:13:57pm

Rep Stupak and several of his group are on CNN ducking gracefully.

396 recusancy  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:14:08pm

re: #393 Dark_Falcon

Where'd you hear that?

His own mouth. He's giving a presser right now.

397 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:14:16pm

re: #390 Claire

Yeah, voting in bills on Christmas Eve and Sunday afternoons. Nothing to see here, just the usual bullshit. Move along little doggies...

I'll remind you (this is tu quoque, but I'm sick of all the "how could they do this" crapola)

The Terri Schaivo invasion was voted on Palm Sunday.

398 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:14:21pm

More signs:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Tyranny Today
Revolution Tomorrow

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

BUCK
OFAMA

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Judas is your name

(center-left)

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Gov't Healthcare
Unbiblical
+
Unconstitutional!

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Commodity Futures
Tar - UP
Feathers - UP

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Oba-Mao's
'Great leap forward'

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

ObamaCare
Old people will die

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Deemed
(wierd half-Obama half-lizardperson image)
Tyrant

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Brett Baier
for
President

(lol)

399 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:14:27pm

re: #393 Dark_Falcon

Where'd you hear that?

he's on TV right now saying it....

400 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:14:40pm

re: #390 Claire

Yeah, voting in bills on Christmas Eve and Sunday afternoons. Nothing to see here, just the usual bullshit. Move along little doggies...

It is fairly lame. It won't make much of a difference this second time, since the news nets are at full readiness.

401 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:14:48pm

re: #393 Dark_Falcon

Where'd you hear that?

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Apparently he just had a presser.

402 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:15:04pm

re: #390 Claire

Yeah, voting in bills on Christmas Eve and Sunday afternoons. Nothing to see here, just the usual bullshit. Move along little doggies...

wocka wocka wocka

403 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:16:25pm

re: #396 recusancy

His own mouth. He's giving a presser right now.

Just tuned in. Given his support, I'd call passage a done deal.

404 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:16:58pm

re: #403 Dark_Falcon

Just tuned in. Given his support, I'd call passage a done deal.

Good.

405 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:17:29pm

re: #389 Stanley Sea

Stupak is a yes.


What did they bribe him with?

406 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:17:47pm

re: #390 Claire

Yeah, voting in bills on Christmas Eve and Sunday afternoons. Nothing to see here, just the usual bullshit. Move along little doggies...

I don't see it as a big deal. It would be an issue if it was some kind of surprise vote on Sunday, as if they were trying to sneak it past the public. This isn't any different than voting tomorrow or two days ago.

407 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:17:55pm

re: #404 Walter L. Newton

Good.

I don't think so, but if the deal has been made fairly, then I accept that I am outvoted.

408 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:18:04pm

re: #405 Claire

What did they bribe him with?

Health Care for ALL Americans. It's a strong bribe.

409 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:18:08pm

re: #405 Claire

What did they bribe him with?

wocka wocka

410 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:18:34pm

The teapartier's answer to ACORN?:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

W.A.L.N.U.T.
Workers Against Lazy Non-producers United Together
411 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:18:38pm

re: #405 Claire

What did they bribe him with?

Executive order that no public money will be spent on abortions and that none will be done in the community health care clinics.
Wow, what a bribe.
/

412 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:19:22pm

re: #405 Claire

What did they bribe him with?

A tall ladder to climb down from a high ledge.

413 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:19:31pm

re: #397 Stanley Sea

I'll remind you (this is tu quoque, but I'm sick of all the "how could they do this" crapola)

The Terri Schaivo invasion was voted on Palm Sunday.

And what was good about that? That was a self-important dare I say "historical" cluster-fuck.

414 avanti  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:20:07pm

re: #406 Soap_Man

I don't see it as a big deal. It would be an issue if it was some kind of surprise vote on Sunday, as if they were trying to sneak it past the public. This isn't any different than voting tomorrow or two days ago.

A executive order by the POTUS that says the Senate bill says what it says basically.

415 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:20:35pm

re: #407 Dark_Falcon

I don't think so, but if the deal has been made fairly, then I accept that I am outvoted.

Well sure it's good DF. Think about this. You're out of work, I'm out of work, we both may need something to help us out in the future. If the government wants to pay for you health care, be happy, don't worry.

I assure you, the way things are going, I am probably almost beyond a shadow of a doubt going to need it, and I intent to be as selfish as I need to and take as much as I possibly can.

If it's going to happen... it's a gift. What's wrong with that?

416 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:21:15pm

re: #392 Walter L. Newton

I liked you better yesterday :(

417 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:21:28pm

re: #405 Claire

What did they bribe him with?

The chance that one day a Catholic might have a chance to be President again.

(because this abortion BS from him was exactly the thing that people used to not vote for Kennedy. That the Pope would be telling him what to do.)

418 avanti  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:21:44pm

re: #405 Claire

What did they bribe him with?

Sorry, I replied to the wrong post:

A executive order by the POTUS that says the Senate bill says what it says basically.

419 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:22:02pm

re: #398 simoom

More signs:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

(lol)

Dude, I saw the lady with Oba-Mao's Great Leap Forward here in Fairfax, Va at his speech. Wild.

420 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:23:00pm

re: #415 Walter L. Newton

I have very good retired/Fed insurance. I want you to have as good, even if my taxes go up a bit. (It's what I do instead of tithing.)

421 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:23:47pm

Conservatives should be pretty happy with this outcome. Considering the huge Dem majorities in both houses and a Dem president, the current legislation is moderate, it could have been much worse. There's no single payer, no public option.

The only thing in it I find radical is the insurance mandate, because it seems to me to be an invention of a new federal power.

422 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:24:33pm

hahahahaha
On Twitter:
@Johngcole
Stupak caves, and Rahm didn't even have to beat him tro death in the shower with his penis.

423 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:25:05pm

re: #422 webevintage

hahahahaha
On Twitter:
@Johngcole
Stupak caves, and Rahm didn't even have to beat him tro death in the shower with his penis.

Word must have spread.

424 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:25:20pm

Now I'm picturing all the speakers in that Cspan feed wearing Elmo heads.

Disturbing.

425 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:25:35pm

re: #421 KingKenrod

I think it will be found to be unconstitutional.

Constitutional Scholar that I am.

426 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:26:49pm
427 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:27:32pm

re: #424 windsagio

Now I'm picturing all the speakers in that Cspan feed wearing Elmo heads.

Disturbing.

I think that means its time to cut back on the LSD.

/kidding

428 avanti  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:28:17pm

Intrade has the bill at 98% just now.

link.

429 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:28:21pm

re: #410 simoom

The teapartier's answer to ACORN?:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Something tells me that some mental gymnastics were required to come up with "non-producers".

430 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:28:39pm

re: #416 windsagio

I liked you better yesterday :(

Am I suppose to care? You have no problem with pointing out "flaws" in people around here, I'm just giving you my two cents. It's a technique with you. You keep needling something down in an effort to, in your mind, to deny that the original point has any merit. You keep moving the target, until it's a bit difficult to have a rhetorical tie back to the foundational assertion. You just did that with the "tu quoque" above.

First you slammed it. Then when Six Degrees pointed out that it was a rebuttal, not tu quoque, you agreed, and tried to diminish it by reframing it as a "deflection."

My comment to you was just an imaginary extrapolation as to how you could take the diminishment one step further.

You should be thanking me for helping you out :)

431 swamprat  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:28:57pm

Better than Scientology;


Seinfeldology!

Trained Seinfeldologists doing a skit about creation.

432 HC4BO  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:30:11pm

re: #421 KingKenrod

Conservatives should be pretty happy with this outcome. Considering the huge Dem majorities in both houses and a Dem president, the current legislation is moderate, it could have been much worse. There's no single payer, no public option.

The only thing in it I find radical is the insurance mandate, because it seems to me to be an invention of a new federal power.

Some will disagree VERY MUCH with you ...

They claim this is the most far leftist bill ever ...

Ask Peggy Noonan !

433 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:30:24pm

re: #419 HappyWarrior

Dude, I saw the lady with Oba-Mao's Great Leap Forward here in Fairfax, Va at his speech. Wild.

I don't see how anyone can find comparison between Obama and Mao. Mao killed and killed with enthusiasm. Obama is a fairly mild figure who shows no violent inclinations whatsoever. Any comparison fails on that basis alone.

434 keloyd  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:30:59pm

I have a question that is something of a long shot. Has anyone in the media or academe tried to measure and compare the nuttery of different presidents' demonstrators?

It's easy to just say the Obama-Hitler and gun nut threats are bad. We all agree on that (here at LGF). We all have anecdotal memory of Bush-Hitler signs for 8 years. I have missing karma for repeatedly making the case "meh - seen it all before". I would rather be definitively proven right or wrong - with data - than keep arguing.

Surely, some political science prof has found every "current guy = Hitler" photo on Google and counted them up? Or counted the number of arrests made at demonstrations where the sitting president is speaking? Or counted the average # interruptions in Congress? Or during presidential addresses? It's hard to quantify, but I've seen more difficult questions measured and answered. Until then, it's the battle of the anecdotes.

...and my favorite Animal Farm character was Benjamin the donkey. He should have his own 10 chapters.

435 jvic  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:31:06pm

re: #407 Dark_Falcon

I don't think so, but if the deal has been made fairly, then I accept that I am outvoted.

DF, if the Right had your attitude, they'd still be in power.

However, I don't think the bill is final until SCOTUS approves it or refuses to consider it.

436 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:31:14pm

re: #432 HC4BO

Some will disagree VERY MUCH with you ...

They claim this is the most far leftist bill ever ...

Ask Peggy Noonan !

And those people who will very much disagree are mostly wingnuts.

437 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:32:20pm

re: #432 HC4BO

Some will disagree VERY MUCH with you ...

They claim this is the most far leftist bill ever ...

Ask Peggy Noonan !

Peggy "serious face" Noonan is very concerned...

438 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:32:23pm

re: #435 jvic

DF, if the Right had your attitude, they'd still be in power.

However, I don't think the bill is final until SCOTUS approves it or refuses to consider it.

Quite Concur.

439 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:33:12pm

Cue wingnut Stupak = Judas meme in 3.....2......1.....

440 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:33:15pm

re: #433 Dark_Falcon

I don't see how anyone can find comparison between Obama and Mao. Mao killed and killed with enthusiasm. Obama is a fairly mild figure who shows no violent inclinations whatsoever. Any comparison fails on that basis alone.

Neither do I. Honestly maybe it's the image he projects but I can't even imagine Obama getting really angry with those he disagrees with politically let alone violently oppress them. Totally wild that I saw this lady though Friday afternoon though. She was being interviewed by someone too.

441 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:36:29pm

Wrapping up,

Signs:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Who is
John Galt

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Three Stooges of Communism
(photos of Reid, Obama and Pelosi)

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

ObamaCare = Death Warrant for Grandma

Larouchers:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

T-shirt:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Vote for
the American
442 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:36:59pm

re: #433 Dark_Falcon

I don't see how anyone can find comparison between Obama and Mao. Mao killed and killed with enthusiasm. Obama is a fairly mild figure who shows no violent inclinations whatsoever. Any comparison fails on that basis alone.

It's the same dumbassery that leads people to paint Hitler mustaches on pictures of Reagan / Bush / Clinton / The Other Bush / Cheney / Rice / Rumsfeld / The Other Clinton / Obama, ad infinitum.

They diminish the lessons of the past by doing so.

This is intended as humor, but it's entirely too accurate:

Image: Hitler-Topic_CE.jpg

443 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:39:24pm

re: #441 simoom

Wrapping up,

Signs:
[Link: [Link: www.flickr.com...]...]

Who is
John Galt

Don't they know?

One of my favorite sites:
[Link: godhatesprotesters.wordpress.com...]

444 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:39:56pm

re: #390 Claire

Yeah, voting in bills on Christmas Eve and Sunday afternoons. Nothing to see here, just the usual bullshit. Move along little doggies...

I don't have a problem with Sundays, more working American can actually watch the debates on Sundays.

445 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:39:59pm

re: #434 keloyd

Why would anybody have to do that? Haven't you heard? In a coincidence of mind-blowing cosmic proportions all the stupid fanatics in the country were born Republicans and all the smart fanatics were born Democrats. Iceweasel can point you to the study!

446 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:40:55pm

re: #444 Thanos
Good point, but I highly doubt that's the reason they are doing it today.

447 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:41:27pm

re: #430 Walter L. Newton

Even the first time I talked to that super-ego guy I called it deflection. Also, and I never agreed with your buddies statement that it wasn't TQ. In fact it can be both :p

I do like how you keep things exciting :D

448 jvic  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:41:28pm

re: #442 negativ

It's the same dumbassery that leads people to paint Hitler mustaches on pictures of Reagan / Bush / Clinton / The Other Bush / Cheney / Rice / Rumsfeld / The Other Clinton / Obama, ad infinitum.

They diminish the lessons of the past by doing so.

This is intended as humor, but it's entirely too accurate:

[Link: cdn-www.cracked.com...]

That sentence is worth bolding, so I did.

Because those who forget the past,...

449 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:42:03pm

re: #446 Claire

why do you think they are?

450 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:42:08pm

re: #446 Claire

Good point, but I highly doubt that's the reason they are doing it today.

why do you care what day they are doing it on?

451 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:42:18pm

re: #446 Claire

Good point, but I highly doubt that's the reason they are doing it today.

So exactly why do you think they are doing it on a Sunday?

452 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:43:11pm

re: #449 windsagio

re: #450 webevintage

re: #451 Thanos

453 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:43:29pm

re: #452 windsagio

dammit, it didn't work. The first link was supposed to be 'synchronicity I' >>

454 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:43:33pm

re: #448 jvic

..snip
Because those who forget the past,...


Are doomed to repeat ninth grade.

455 Cheechako  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:43:48pm

Serenity break for a Sunday afternoon:

Mendenhall Glacier

Still a little bit chilly...about 41 degrees. But, there's now more daylight than darkness.

456 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:43:48pm

I don't know but I've been reassured that it's nothing unusual at all. Why do you think they are?

457 keloyd  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:44:01pm

re: #442 negativ

Is that a Hitler-Mr.-Rogers? Best.Hitler.Reference.Evar.

458 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:44:22pm

re: #447 windsagio

Even the first time I talked to that super-ego guy I called it deflection. Also, and I never agreed with your buddies statement that it wasn't TQ. In fact it can be both :p

I do like how you keep things exciting :D

Just exciting? Come on... this sentence "You keep moving the target, until it's a bit difficult to have a rhetorical tie back to the foundational assertion." was almost momentous... one of the most finely crafted bits of English verbiage that I have strung together in a long time.

459 swamprat  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:44:27pm

re: #434 keloyd

I'll bet even Washington has been equated to King George.

460 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:44:27pm

re: #456 Claire

I don't know but I've been reassured that it's nothing unusual at all. Why do you think they are?

Sorry you doubted, then please explain why you doubt. I asked first

461 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:44:43pm

re: #456 Claire

I don't really know, but its not a big deal to me.

I have this creeping suspicion that there's something you think, but you're not willing to say about the significance of the day. Just come out with it :)

462 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:45:13pm

re: #455 Cheechako

Serenity break for a Sunday afternoon:

Mendenhall Glacier

Still a little bit chilly...about 41 degrees. But, there's now more daylight than darkness.

I see it moving!

463 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:45:46pm

re: #458 Walter L. Newton

when your point is fundamentally wrong, its hard to accept your skillful use of language.

If writing skill were the criteria, I'd never have a chance vs. you, so I guess I"m lucky in that sense :p

464 bratwurst  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:46:14pm

re: #444 Thanos

I don't have a problem with Sundays, more working American can actually watch the debates on Sundays.

This is also where elections are held on weekends in much of the world.

465 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:46:35pm

re: #456 Claire

I don't know but I've been reassured that it's nothing unusual at all. Why do you think they are?

But why do you care even if it is "unusual"?
I think a historic vote on a day when most Americans can take time to pay attention if they want is quite a good thing AND our highly paid Congress Critters can do some over-time.

466 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:46:36pm

re: #455 Cheechako

Serenity break for a Sunday afternoon:

Mendenhall Glacier

Still a little bit chilly...about 41 degrees. But, there's now more daylight than darkness.

Before 1750, the Mendenhall Glacier was advancing; its face was 2.5 miles down valley from its present position. Since then, due to slightly warmer temperatures, the glacier began receding. Land buried under ice for centuries is being exposed. Simple forms of life quickly take hold and begin a steady progression from pioneering plants and animals to a complex climax forest.

467 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:47:07pm

re: #463 windsagio

when your point is fundamentally wrong, its hard to accept your skillful use of language.

If writing skill were the criteria, I'd never have a chance vs. you, so I guess I"m lucky in that sense :p

Touchy... I mean touche'

468 mj  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:47:08pm

4:19 P.M. Well Past 216 Votes Needed by Democrats?

We’re not going to say it’s over until it’s over, but Mr. Stupak is suggesting that with his band of satisfied anti-abortion Democrats declaring they’ll vote in favor of the legislation, the Democrats are well past the 216 they need.

From colleague David M. Herszenhorn, Mr. Stupak: “We’re well-passed 216, yes.”

[Link: prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com...]

469 wiz 52  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:47:38pm

I'm sure after reading the posts here, that the people holding the signs, have had their backgrounds checked by everyone here, and you are all positive beyond any reasonable doubt that they are right wing extremists.....the leftists are too dumb to plant anyone like this.........right?? But judge you will and spout your pompous drivel at the horror of the sign.

As far as funding this bill................."See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them and gives it to the other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expence of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime." Frederic Bastiat This is, but again, legalized theft.............

470 rurality  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:47:51pm

re: #434 keloyd

When Bush was compared to Hitler by the left, it had to do with warrantless wire taps, infringement of liberties, getting the country into war under false premises ("faulty intelligence" or faulty interpretation of intelligence) turning the DOJ into an enforcement are of the Whitehouse, war spending off the books, the term "patriotism" as cudgel of silence. I'm not saying I was for it, but at least could understand how the analogy was made. With Obama...is he Hitler cause of his birth certificate, or the death panels, or he's going to take our guns (not)? What is the link between HCR and Hitler? Both groups used the most loaded, hated dictator at their reference, but there is just irrational hate in the stuff we're seeing lately.

471 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:47:54pm

re: #457 keloyd

Is that a Hitler-Mr.-Rogers? Best.Hitler.Reference.Evar.

and a Kitler!

472 bratwurst  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:47:56pm

re: #464 bratwurst

This is also where why elections are held on weekends in much of the world.

I am not even drinking and I can't type.

473 avanti  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:48:22pm

Good news from the freeper site. Since God will stop the bill one way or another, if it passes, it means Christ is coming back shortly.

474 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:48:28pm
475 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:48:33pm

re: #469 wiz 52

Plants~! They were plants!

///

476 keloyd  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:49:07pm

re: #445 Claire

Why would anybody have to do that? Haven't you heard? In a coincidence of mind-blowing cosmic proportions all the stupid fanatics in the country were born Republicans and all the smart fanatics were born Democrats. Iceweasel can point you to the study!



And keloyd said unto Iceweasel, From whence comest thou? And Iceweasel answered keloyd, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it...and here's your political science link about the demonstrators. (kidding!)

477 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:49:21pm

re: #469 wiz 52

Gosh, if they were plants why weren't they run off?

478 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:49:28pm

re: #469 wiz 52

Post of the week, imo.

479 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:49:49pm

re: #470 rurality

LOL. Leftist plants! Comedy gold!

480 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:50:28pm

re: #469 wiz 52

...the leftists are too dumb to plant anyone like this...right??

Get real.

481 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:50:29pm

re: #475 Thanos

Plants~! They were plants!

///

I swear, that is the most head in the sand excuse I've heard.

The people who yelled n#@# at John Lewis were Democratic plants. Yep yep yep.

482 jamesfirecat  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:50:50pm

re: #8 Rightwingconspirator

John Browning is spinning in his grave. I really hate it when protesters abuse their rights, as in the 1st, and the rights of others. The real Browning Company has now had its reputation damaged. No legitimate gun owner or maker wants to see this kind of contemptible sign.

AK-47, because when you're about to be executed by a warlord's private army for daring to speak out against his favorite cousin, you don't want to have the whole thing drawn out by having the gun that's about to ventilate your forehead jam!

483 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:50:51pm

re: #473 avanti

Good news from the freeper site. Since God will stop the bill one way or another, if it passes, it means Christ is coming back shortly.

I guess I need to let the folks at After The Rapture Pet Care where the dog and cat food is.
[Link: www.aftertherapturepetcare.com...]

(Oh, forgot, the rapture is BS)

484 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:50:53pm

re: #475 Thanos

Plants~! They were plants!

///

re: #477 Thanos

Gosh, if they were plants why weren't they run off?

Too well-rooted.

485 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:51:07pm
486 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:51:17pm

re: #481 Stanley Sea

If the democrats were that ruthless and organized, gore would have won in 2000, AND kerry would have won in 2004, even tho' thats impossible.

487 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:51:18pm

re: #469 wiz 52

LOL. Leftist plants! Comedy gold!

wrong re: above

488 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:52:06pm

re: #485 Walter L. Newton

The progression in recovery, just like the receding glacier.

489 bratwurst  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:52:10pm

re: #469 wiz 52

I'm sure after reading the posts here, that the people holding the signs, have had their backgrounds checked by everyone here, and you are all positive beyond any reasonable doubt that they are right wing extremists...the leftists are too dumb to plant anyone like this...right?? But judge you will and spout your pompous drivel at the horror of the sign.

I know I always theorized that Code Pink is in reality a "black op" by Focus on the Family!
/

490 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:52:57pm

re: #469 wiz 52

Seriously, thank you for a good laugh on a beautiful Sunday afternoon.

491 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:53:16pm

re: #334 HappyWarrior

That was quick. Of course it was wrong for the left to do it to Bush. The far left is also doing it to Obama too. Read a story about the anti war protests and apparently they were calling Obama a war criminal.

Yes indeed. I was embedded at the anti-war, Let's hate on Israel rally yesterday at the Civic Center in San Francisco. I got pictures! I got pictures! While I was busy clicking away, the two friends who arrived with me found themselves surrounded by a small mob of Jihadi kids - but fortunately the SFPD were nearby. It never fails.

492 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:53:40pm

re: #469 wiz 52

I'm sure after reading the posts here, that the people holding the signs, have had their backgrounds checked by everyone here, and you are all positive beyond any reasonable doubt that they are right wing extremists...the leftists are too dumb to plant anyone like this...right?? But judge you will and spout your pompous drivel at the horror of the sign.

Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.

OR -

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

AND -

Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.

493 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:53:41pm

re: #488 windsagio

The progression in recovery, just like the receding glacier.

I'm still not sure what you are talking about? I was making a pro-AGW point about a receding glacier. What recovery at Helens, what glacier at Helens... I'm confused about your connection?

494 keloyd  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:53:58pm

re: #470 rurality

All true, but there was also Hitlerian beer hall pusch(?) references right out of the gate after the 2000 elections, and I'm not much a fan of W either. I want a disinterested 3rd party to be the referee, some bland, bean counting, soulless Canadian faculty at a state college to run the numbers without passion and answer my question - who's nuts are more nuttier?

495 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:54:10pm

Claire if someone holds a vote on Christmas you could speculate that they want to keep the vote and debate obscured from the public. If someone holds a vote on Sunday you can only speculate that they want more Americans to see the debate and vote.

/unless of course you came galloping in on your "xtian culture waryur martyr" steed...

496 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:54:16pm

There are no better-concealed Stalinist cadres than the John Birch cells.

497 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:55:01pm

re: #493 Walter L. Newton

lol.

498 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:56:17pm

Has anyone seen that picture on HuffPo with Pelosi holding that ridiculously oversized mallet? It's pretty funny.

499 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:56:22pm

BBIAB

500 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:56:35pm

re: #493 Walter L. Newton

no, I'll help you out afterall.

A while ago, there was this mountain that blew up, and it wiped out all life just as much as having a glacier over you would (and to tie it in just for you, the dust probably helped fight global warming for a while :p)

I'm always amazed by the ability of nature to recover from something like that, and having been there, the progression forest is simply wonderful to see.

501 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:57:07pm

re: #498 Soap_Man

Has anyone seen that picture on HuffPo with Pelosi holding that ridiculously oversized mallet? It's pretty funny.

Actually, that should say gavel, but it does look a lot like a mallet.

502 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:57:20pm

re: #497 windsagio

lol.

Honestly... I asking that question in all honesty. The first link was to that glacier. I look up info on that glacier, and found that it was receeding like many other glaciers, I posted that information.

Then you posted the pic of Helens?

What's the connection?

503 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:58:12pm

NCAA meets HCR

Just like Democrats, Michigan State had a huge advantage early, suffered some injuries, nearly blew it, then came through in the clutch.

Nate Silver of 538 twitter

504 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:58:31pm

re: #502 Walter L. Newton

Read on, macduff!

(man I've wanted to say that like forever)

505 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:58:56pm

re: #500 windsagio

no, I'll help you out afterall.

A while ago, there was this mountain that blew up, and it wiped out all life just as much as having a glacier over you would (and to tie it in just for you, the dust probably helped fight global warming for a while :p)

I'm always amazed by the ability of nature to recover from something like that, and having been there, the progression forest is simply wonderful to see.

?

Ok... I understand what you are saying, I wasn't sure how that related to receding glaciers. Are you trying to say the glacier will recover on it's own.

506 avanti  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:59:00pm

re: #501 Soap_Man

Actually, that should say gavel, but it does look a lot like a mallet.

It's the one used when Medicare passed.

507 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 1:59:59pm

re: #461 windsagio

I don't really know, but its not a big deal to me.

I have this creeping suspicion that there's something you think, but you're not willing to say about the significance of the day. Just come out with it :)

Desperation before the consensus falls apart because it's not a strong bill? Or, they actually want to earn brownie points with the public by pretending to have work ethic that sacrifices a trip back home on the weekend to get the people's work done??? It's THAT important! Like anybody would buy that. Or maybe they are sick of it and want it to be over. Or maybe Sunday is not a big news day. Any or all of the above? I dunno.

If their reason is that they must hurry so not ONE MORE person is denied coverage for pre-existing conditions!!!! Then they could have passed a single-item bill saying exactly that a year ago and would have gotten a bi-partisan 80% vote, no doubt about it. I'm sure the real reason is a combo of moral preening and political expendiency, because it usually is.

508 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:00:22pm

re: #506 avanti

It's the one used when Medicare passed.

Now, that is cool.

509 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:00:50pm

re: #505 Walter L. Newton

The only thing I'm saying is that seeing plants creep back into a totally devastated, essentially lifeless place is amazing, beautiful, and moving.

We used to visit St. Helens every year so I could actually see it happening.

510 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:01:13pm

re: #506 avanti

It's the one used when Medicare passed.

Thanks for the info. But it still looks ridiculous. :)

511 avanti  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:01:14pm

I need to step away for a moment, my unicorns are having a party, and I need to quite them down a bit.

512 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:02:07pm

re: #507 Claire

Then they could have passed a single-item bill saying exactly that a year ago and would have gotten a bi-partisan 80% vote, no doubt about it.

heh.

513 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:02:55pm

re: #511 avanti

Stupid unicorns, are they eating your lilies?

(50 points for anyone who can catch the reference, its an obscure one :P)

514 rurality  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:02:59pm

re: #494 keloyd

The 2000 election was just plain ugly--and gave off the impression that sharp elbows and behind scene operators as well as the SCOTUS decided and not the people---R's would have felt the same had it gone the other way, without the added frustration of winning the popular vote. But, don't remember talk of civil war, stocking up on bullets, violence ceaselessly in the air. And the country did rally behind Bush after 9/11. Someone up thread posted a twitter saying that they hoped DC was nuked. The feeling that more than a few people around the country hope for some sort of attack, to either undermine this president, help their party or cause their vindictive assholes--well, that's new and scary. The irrationality and violence make these current nuts the nutso winners. Unless some were really worried about Code Pink? How many dem. politicians stood before a crowd of Pinkers and fed them raw crazy meat?

515 prairiefire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:03:28pm

Go, Nancy!!!!

516 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:04:20pm

re: #513 windsagio

Stupid unicorns, are they eating your lilies?

(50 points for anyone who can catch the reference, its an obscure one :P)

Unicorn tapestry at the Cloisters?

517 Jadespring  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:04:35pm

For anyone that is watching C-span right now....

What exactly are they doing right now?

518 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:05:24pm

re: #516 Decatur Deb

Not what I was thinking of, but that might be where Thurber got it.

Its one of my favorite short stories, I'll see if its old enough to be on gutenberg yet.

519 avanti  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:06:12pm

re: #517 Jadespring

For anyone that is watching C-span right now...

What exactly are they doing right now?

Limited debate before the first vote. They have 1 minute and are using it to say they'll make a speech later after the vote to play to their base.

520 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:06:19pm

re: #518 windsagio

Found it!

Thurber is probably my favorite writer ever.

[Link: english.glendale.cc.ca.us...]

521 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:06:28pm

re: #520 windsagio

oops, sorry doublelink :(

522 Jadespring  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:07:02pm

re: #519 avanti

Limited debate before the first vote. They have 1 minute and are using it to say they'll make a speech later after the vote to play to their base.

Ah got it. Thanks.

523 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:07:54pm

re: #495 Thanos

Claire if someone holds a vote on Christmas you could speculate that they want to keep the vote and debate obscured from the public. If someone holds a vote on Sunday you can only speculate that they want more Americans to see the debate and vote.

/unless of course you came galloping in on your "xtian culture waryur martyr" steed...

Not attributing nefarious reasons to Christmas Eve, just cynical ones. I'm not a Christian, don't have a horse 'cept maybe a high one now and then.

524 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:09:12pm

On Monday the keyword for the full gamut of right wing media will be "flawed" with an occasional "unconstitutionally Flawed"

525 albusteve  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:09:44pm

re: #515 prairiefire

Go, Nancy!!!

really, just go

526 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:11:11pm

re: #518 windsagio

Not what I was thinking of, but that might be where Thurber got it.

Its one of my favorite short stories, I'll see if its old enough to be on gutenberg yet.

Not a plant man, might be lillies in here. Don't know the Thrurber story.

[Link: www.washington-heights.us...]

527 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:11:15pm

re: #514 rurality

The 2000 election was just plain ugly--and gave off the impression that sharp elbows and behind scene operators as well as the SCOTUS decided and not the people---R's would have felt the same had it gone the other way, without the added frustration of winning the popular vote. But, don't remember talk of civil war, stocking up on bullets, violence ceaselessly in the air. And the country did rally behind Bush after 9/11. Someone up thread posted a twitter saying that they hoped DC was nuked. The feeling that more than a few people around the country hope for some sort of attack, to either undermine this president, help their party or cause their vindictive assholes--well, that's new and scary. The irrationality and violence make these current nuts the nutso winners. Unless some were really worried about Code Pink? How many dem. politicians stood before a crowd of Pinkers and fed them raw crazy meat?

Murtha allied himself with them, but I don't think he was ever out there picketing the wounded vets at Walter Reed with them.

528 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:11:16pm

re: #523 Claire

Not attributing nefarious reasons to Christmas Eve, just cynical ones. I'm not a Christian, don't have a horse 'cept maybe a high one now and then.

So then it was just a coincidence that you brought up two days that Christians say you shouldn't work during.

529 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:11:57pm

re: #515 prairiefire

Go, Nancy!!!

re: #525 albusteve

really, just go

Bah-dum-ching.

530 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:11:59pm

Wow. The most inane use of a quote from "A Man for All Seasons" evah just passed the lips of one Dan Lungren, illiteratus and moron from California.

531 avanti  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:12:03pm

re: #525 albusteve

really, just go

For once, I agree with you, I'm not a fan of Nancy.

532 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:12:50pm

re: #530 Cato the Elder

Wow. The most inane use of a quote from "A Man for All Seasons" evah just passed the lips of one Dan Lungren, illiteratus and moron from California.

And he flubbed it.

533 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:15:51pm

Televangelist Hair....

534 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:16:46pm

re: #511 avanti

Never play leap frog with a unicorn.

-atheist proverb

535 Jadespring  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:17:18pm

It's to bad all these peeps can't just say, "Ditto', to what the last guy said.

536 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:17:34pm

re: #524 Thanos

On Monday the keyword for the full gamut of right wing media will be "flawed" with an occasional "unconstitutionally Flawed"

I often wonder who comes up with these scripts. The practice has probably been going on since the dawn of time, but I remember the 2000 election featured everyone and their dog compulsively saying things about G.W. Bush's GRAVITAS. Now we're getting things RAMMED DOWN OUR THROAT. There have been numerous other examples in the intervening years.

I want to know who it is that sits around formulating memes day in and day out. I also want to know why vast legions of people repeat the shit, frequently without even knowing what it's supposed to mean.

Ya know, you humans are damn weird, and as soon as my repair parts arrive from Tralfamadore, I'm gonna be off and up-out this beeotch.

537 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:17:55pm

re: #470 rurality

What is the link between HCR and Hitler?

I see you haven't watched Glenn Becks excellent Fox News documentary:
Revolutionary Holocaust: Live Free or Die

Beck -
A: Hitler advocated Universal Health Care
B: Progressives advocate Universal Health Care

Therefore, by virtue of the transitive property (or something),
Progressives = Hitler.

///

538 jamesfirecat  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:19:22pm

re: #536 negativ

I often wonder who comes up with these scripts. The practice has probably been going on since the dawn of time, but I remember the 2000 election featured everyone and their dog compulsively saying things about G.W. Bush's GRAVITAS. Now we're getting things RAMMED DOWN OUR THROAT. There have been numerous other examples in the intervening years.

I want to know who it is that sits around formulating memes day in and day out. I also want to know why vast legions of people repeat the shit, frequently without even knowing what it's supposed to mean.

Ya know, you humans are damn weird, and as soon as my repair parts arrive from Tralfamadore, I'm gonna be off and up-out this beeotch.

If you're really from Tralfamadore and you don't like you're time hear then you should be focusing your mind on another section of your life you weird plunger headed alien....

539 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:20:06pm

re: #538 jamesfirecat

Welcome back!

540 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:20:13pm

re: #536 negativ

I want to know who it is that sits around formulating memes day in and day out.

Frank Luntz

541 Jadespring  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:20:30pm

I am enjoying listening to all the different accents though.

542 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:20:35pm

Crazy Michelle meme "Dangerous"

543 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:21:09pm

re: #536 negativ

I often wonder who comes up with these scripts. The practice has probably been going on since the dawn of time, but I remember the 2000 election featured everyone and their dog compulsively saying things about G.W. Bush's GRAVITAS. Now we're getting things RAMMED DOWN OUR THROAT. There have been numerous other examples in the intervening years.

I heard these three a number of times today, on the Sunday shows:

Start from scratch, with a fresh sheet of paper, and take a Step-by-step approach.
544 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:21:14pm

re: #537 simoom

Hitler advocated universal health care? Wow. All those Lebensunwertes Leben kids will be thrilled to know.

545 jamesfirecat  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:21:26pm

re: #539 Stanley Sea

Welcome back!

That's right,

THE CAT, IS BACK!

And better than ever I might add!

I am now a 22 year old, do nothing, know it, liberal arts college attending, parent's healthcare relying upon (which given that my dad works for the FDA, make that government healthcare relying upon), catnip smoking, democrat!

I am back at college and back on LGF, or I will be for as long as it takes Bioshock 2 to install....

546 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:21:26pm

Brrr... I just came back from three hours of sitting in a 55-degree drizzle, watching first one kid's soccer game and then the other's. I sat with some other fathers, who were grousing about the health care bill. In the Reagan administration, one year the entire federal budget topped $500 billion dollars--and people groaned about what a fiscal atrocity that was. At this rate, by the time my kids enter the tax rolls, we'll be printing sums like that out of thin air, and tossing them around like Waffle House tips.

547 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:21:38pm

re: #537 simoom

I see you haven't watched Glenn Becks excellent Fox News documentary:
Revolutionary Holocaust: Live Free or Die

Beck -
A: Hitler advocated Universal Health Care
B: Progressives advocate Universal Health Care

Therefore, by virtue of the transitive property (or something),
Progressives = Hitler.

///

Ha using Glenn logic.
Hitler hated Communists and Marxism.
Glenn hates Communists and Marxist.
Therefore, Glenn= Hitler.
See Glenn how easy it is to compare someone to Hitler.
*I'm not comparing Glenn Beck to Hitler.

548 Athens Runaway  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:22:05pm

re: #540 Girth

Frank Luntz

I'll never understand you liberals' hatred for Luntz. He's the one who coined the term "climate change" for you guys.

549 Jadespring  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:22:24pm

re: #544 negativ

Hitler advocated universal health care? Wow. All those Lebensunwertes Leben kids will be thrilled to know.

He and the Nazi's were also big on 'social justice'. I'm still puzzling that one out.

550 rurality  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:22:35pm

re: #527 The Sanity Inspector

Code Pink is women for peace, so I can see any number of politicians aligning themselves with them until their methods undermined their message and therefore, their mission. Yeah, it was annoying when they held up signs during Committee hearings and imagine politicians distanced themselves. R's do not seem to care about the methods or the message of Teafolk or other fringe elements--they just see enthusiastic voters. When R's in the house applaud a protester who'd yelled "Kill, Kill, Kill the bill" as he was being hauled off by four officers, IN THE HOUSE OF REP.(today) when Cong. King doesnt think anything wrong with racial slurs being slung around yesterday, then you have a party that has lost it's way big time.

551 Lidane  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:23:00pm

re: #540 Girth

Frank Luntz

Yes, it's Daily Kos, but I thought it was amusing:

GOP Talking Points Bingo

Luntz is the free square in the middle. Heh.

552 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:23:00pm

re: #544 negativ

Some universes are bigger than others.

553 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:23:27pm

re: #546 The Sanity Inspector

Brrr... I just came back from three hours of sitting in a 55-degree drizzle, watching first one kid's soccer game and then the other's. I sat with some other fathers, who were grousing about the health care bill. In the Reagan administration, one year the entire federal budget topped $500 billion dollars--and people groaned about what a fiscal atrocity that was. At this rate, by the time my kids enter the tax rolls, we'll be printing sums like that out of thin air, and tossing them around like Waffle House tips.

But they will be healthy.

554 keloyd  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:23:31pm

re: #514 rurality

I suspect you're right, but all we have is anecdotes and media bias to make us (well, me) dubious of how to weigh them. I hate the idea of anecdotes being all there is.

If economists in Freakonomics can find data to answer things like:
1. if the drug industry is so lucrative, why do so many drug dealers live at their mama house in the ghetto and appear to be very poor?
2. Did abortion rights cause crime to drop more than get-tough measures caused crime to drop?
3. Are prostitutes better off with a pimp? (YES!)
4. Are home sellers better off with a realtor taking 6%? (YES!, reasons similar to #3)
and some even better ones I can't recall, surely someone can find a way to quantify the wingnutter vs. moonbattery question.

555 blueraven  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:23:52pm

Waterloo
by David Frum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

[Link: www.frumforum.com...]

556 Bulldoglover100  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:25:17pm

re: #555 blueraven

They brought it on their self

557 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:26:14pm

re: #547 HappyWarrior

Ha using Glenn logic.
Hitler hated Communists and Marxism.

Heh, in Glenn Beck's documentary he actually went the other way, arguing commonalities between the Nazis and the Communists to reclassify Fascism as a leftist ideology :P.

558 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:26:35pm

re: #555 blueraven

Waterloo
by David Frum

[Link: www.frumforum.com...]

It was the "Waterloo" boast that made this mess nasty and necessary. Now maybe they can work on health care reform.

559 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:26:36pm

The FL guy just made the most substantive and ratiional arg that the R's have against this.
1. Could cut medicare
2. Could hurt Small business

the other arguments were
1. might end up containing earmarks
2. Abortion!!!!
3. wahhhh ! It's not bipartisan

560 rurality  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:26:40pm

re: #537 simoom

Beck and Rush are like the Brothers Grimm of politics. They could turn a pumpkin into Hitler.

561 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:27:01pm

re: #553 Walter L. Newton

But they will be healthy.


Yep, pulling rickshaws for the Chinese will keep them them in great shape. :/

562 Girth  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:27:09pm

re: #548 Athens Runaway

I'll never understand you liberals' hatred for Luntz. He's the one who coined the term "climate change" for you guys.

I'm not a liberal. Try again.

563 Athens Runaway  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:28:38pm

re: #555 blueraven

Waterloo
by David Frum

[Link: www.frumforum.com...]

Some problems with Frum's "analysis":

Republicans and conservatives did work with Democrats on this bill... Snowe, McCain, The Heritage Foundation all wanted to work to moderate the bill. Their efforts were rebuffed.

I know dancing on the graves of the GOP is the cool thing around here, but let's try to be the rationalists we all claim to be. Even Obama admitted that the GOP had good ideas (some of which were partially incorporated into his bill).

564 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:29:01pm

re: #562 Girth

I'm not a liberal. Try again.

Awww, dammit. I was hoping to be able to classify you in a simple group so I can know to dismiss everything you write even before I read it.

Why must you make things so complicated?

///

565 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:29:31pm

What an absolute clusterf--k on the House floor.

566 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:29:54pm

re: #557 simoom

Heh, in Glenn Beck's documentary he actually went the other way, arguing commonalities between the Nazis and the Communists to reclassify Fascism as a leftist ideology :P.

Yeah, I heard. For someone who reads as much as he claims to he must have forgotten the little bit where Hitler and the Nazis scapegoated Communists for the Reichstag bombing and purged the left wing aspect of their party in the Night of Long Knives. I find it amusing as a liberal that I get derided for supporting multiculturalism but at the same time I am considered akin to a Nazi by people like Beck who were really uh openly racist and white supremacist.

567 blueraven  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:30:24pm

re: #556 Bulldoglover100

They brought it on their self

Absolutely! By declaring that HCR defeat would be Obama's waterloo from the beginning, then setting out to make that happen. Their strategy has backfired.

568 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:30:46pm

re: #555 blueraven

Waterloo
by David Frum

[Link: www.frumforum.com...]

This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

569 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:30:52pm

re: #547 HappyWarrior

Ha using Glenn logic.
Hitler hated Communists and Marxism.
Glenn hates Communists and Marxist.
Therefore, Glenn= Hitler.
See Glenn how easy it is to compare someone to Hitler.
*I'm not comparing Glenn Beck to Hitler.

By all accounts, Hitler loved dogs, was fond of [Arayan] children, and was very kind and charming to his female secretaries.

Therefore, MOST NORMAL PEOPLE == HITLER!

570 Digital Display  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:31:12pm

re: #566 HappyWarrior

Beck called FDR a commie last week...

571 jamesfirecat  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:31:15pm

re: #567 blueraven

Absolutely! By declaring that HCR defeat would be Obama's waterloo from the beginning, then setting out to make that happen. Their strategy has backfired.

Oh it's Obama's Waterloo all right, the problem is that Obama is Wellington...

572 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:31:59pm

re: #545 jamesfirecat

That's right,

THE CAT, IS BACK!

And better than ever I might add!

I am now a 22 year old, do nothing, know it, liberal arts college attending, parent's healthcare relying upon (which given that my dad works for the FDA, make that government healthcare relying upon), catnip smoking, democrat!

I am back at college and back on LGF, or I will be for as long as it takes Bioshock 2 to install...

Welcome back!

573 Kruk  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:32:43pm

re: #571 jamesfirecat

Oh it's Obama's Waterloo all right, the problem is that Obama is Wellington...

Heh. Well, this bill was a damn close run thing, for sure. I'm still half thinking the Democrats will find a way to **** this up.

574 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:33:33pm

If the bill passes, Dems own it and lose.
If the bill by some weird fate doesn't pass, Dems own the loss, and lose.
It's a lose-lose for them.
Deem and pass?
More like Demon Pass.... and they're caught in it.

575 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:33:35pm

re: #573 Kruk

Heh. Well, this bill was a damn close run thing, for sure. I'm still half thinking the Democrats will find a way to *** this up.

Nice paraphrase.

576 blueraven  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:33:42pm

re: #563 Athens Runaway

Some problems with Frum's "analysis":

Republicans and conservatives did work with Democrats on this bill... Snowe, McCain, The Heritage Foundation all wanted to work to moderate the bill. Their efforts were rebuffed.

I know dancing on the graves of the GOP is the cool thing around here, but let's try to be the rationalists we all claim to be. Even Obama admitted that the GOP had good ideas (some of which were partially incorporated into his bill).

Did any republican vote for the bill? No, even when their ideas were incorporated.

577 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:33:44pm

re: #322 SpaceJesus

rodan at stalkerblog weighs in on health care vote today

"This is all about Eugenics. This is the means through the Progressives will create their new society. Their new man or master race they have been wanting to do for over 150 since Marx called for the elimination of inferior races and people. This is what their whole agenda of control is based on."

ahahahaha that guy must be just surrounded by dusty Art Bell cassettes, what a twit

578 Jadespring  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:34:10pm

I have a loaf of bread in the oven. The smell is driving me batty. I can't wait for it to be done. I don't care about the calories. I'm going to slather a freshly baked slice with real butter!

Just have to hold on for 10 mins.

579 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:34:17pm

"The gentleman is reminded to address all his remarks to the Chair."

580 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:34:29pm

re: #548 Athens Runaway

I'll never understand you liberals' hatred for Luntz. He's the one who coined the term "climate change" for you guys.

Explain the logic by which you arrived at this.

581 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:34:29pm

re: #563 Athens Runaway

Some problems with Frum's "analysis":

Republicans and conservatives did work with Democrats on this bill... Snowe, McCain, The Heritage Foundation all wanted to work to moderate the bill. Their efforts were rebuffed.

Their efforts are reflected in the bill, as it's essentially the Senate Finance Committee bill. Senator Olympia Snowe even voted in support of the bill in that committee (as I recall, her main concern w/ respect to the final legislation was that she didn't want the Public Option added).

582 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:34:48pm

re: #574 tradewind

so there's no chance that it'll pass, work, and they'll reap the benefits of their hard work?

583 jamesfirecat  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:35:01pm

re: #573 Kruk

Heh. Well, this bill was a damn close run thing, for sure. I'm still half thinking the Democrats will find a way to *** this up.

I think you wanted four asterisks there, and of course as Democrats its our prerogative to not even be able to bang the legislative gavel without hitting the desk so hard that it breaks and someone gets a splinter in the eye....

584 rurality  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:35:28pm

re: #554 keloyd

Don't know a thing about Freakonomics--couldnt get past the name. I find media bias often in the eyes of the beholder. I feel "liberal bias" theme is a strawman. If the media was so liberal, why would they legitimize endlessly, right wing fringe groups? Show more than one brain scalding clip of Bachman? Let lies and gibberish be aired without dispute. Media is about money and crazy sells, drama sells, news/facts are just too boring.

585 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:35:32pm

re: #574 tradewind

If the bill passes, Dems own it and lose.
If the bill by some weird fate doesn't pass, Dems own the loss, and lose.
It's a lose-lose for them.
Deem and pass?
More like Demon Pass... and they're caught in it.


Deem and pass is not being used! For the 14th time I've had to type this.

586 Lidane  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:35:34pm

re: #573 Kruk

Heh. Well, this bill was a damn close run thing, for sure. I'm still half thinking the Democrats will find a way to *** this up.

I don't take anything for granted until the final votes are counted.

587 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:35:51pm

re: #579 The Sanity Inspector

"The gentleman is reminded to address all his remarks to the Chair."

What if he'd prefer to address his remarks to the Curtains?

588 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:36:15pm

re: #582 windsagio
Let's see.... higher taxes for ten years. Cuts in medicare. Cuts in doctor payments. 16k new IRS inspectors to enforce fines on people who don't wanna play.
No kick in for years.
Yeah, it's a beaut.

589 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:36:17pm

re: #587 negativ

"Pay no attention to the President behind the Curtain"?

590 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:36:19pm

re: #576 blueraven

Did any republican vote for the bill? No, even when their ideas were incorporated.

Cao from LA is the vote to watch.

591 webevintage  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:36:32pm

re: #579 The Sanity Inspector

"The gentleman is reminded to address all his remarks to the Chair."

Rep Jackson has done a bang up job...

592 jamesfirecat  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:36:38pm

re: #587 negativ

What if he'd prefer to address his remarks to the Curtains?

Just so long as he doesn't address them to the man behind them....

593 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:36:43pm

re: #588 tradewind

I have to acknowledge that it was a rhetorical question :p

Of course you think that.

594 Lidane  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:36:53pm

re: #587 negativ

What if he'd prefer to address his remarks to the Curtains?

Pfft. He should totally address the Roomba and the dust bunnies under the couch.

595 rurality  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:37:05pm

bagels have proofed, time to boil. later.

596 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:37:07pm

re: #585 Stanley Sea
I know. Never said it was. Used it as an example of the stupidity that was kicked around in the panic.
Also made a fun word play.

597 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:37:10pm

Somebody somewhere said that, if the health care bill would bring down the deficit by @$140 billion, then we should insure all of China and eliminate our debt completely.

598 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:37:17pm

re: #570 HoosierHoops

Beck called FDR a commie last week...

I'm not shocked. I am shocked by his crazy hatred for Teddy Roosevelt. I was always of the thought that most people on both sides of the aisle in both liberal and conservative ideology had some reverence for him.

599 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:37:24pm

re: #548 Athens Runaway

I'll never understand you liberals' hatred for Luntz. He's the one who coined the term "climate change" for you guys.

I hate him because he's a liar. he falsifies poll results, and he came up with the term "climate change" to soften the language and cast doubt on the science.

Once again, political hacks

600 jamesfirecat  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:37:40pm

re: #588 tradewind

Let's see... higher taxes for ten years. Cuts in medicare. Cuts in doctor payments. 16k new IRS inspectors to enforce fines on people who don't wanna play.
No kick in for years.
Yeah, it's a beaut.

You missed the part about no more pre-existing conditions, kids get to be covered by their parents for longer, and nobody can be dropped when they get sick kick in the day after the bill becomes a law (or something close to it as I understand...)

601 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:37:49pm

re: #599 WindUpBird

political hacks (is less than) science :D

602 limewash  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:37:50pm

re: #563 Athens Runaway

Could you point me to articles about what she proposed that was rebuffed besides the "let's start over" and even though it's been about 9-10months of working with her she wanted to slow down the process more?

McCain? What did he proposed during the debate besides put it down and mis-inform people? [Link: mediamattersaction.org...]

603 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:38:25pm

re: #601 WindUpBird

<<<<<<<<<<

Neener.

Also, have a beer, you seem on edge >

604 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:38:27pm

re: #595 rurality
....something that should have been done to the proposals in this bill.
Never would'a risen.

605 simoom  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:38:38pm

re: #566 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I heard. For someone who reads as much as he claims to he must have forgotten the little bit where Hitler and the Nazis scapegoated Communists for the Reichstag bombing and purged the left wing aspect of their party in the Night of Long Knives.

In this case, the problem is what he read, which was
Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left by Jonah Glodberg.

606 Digital Display  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:38:50pm

re: #598 HappyWarrior

I'm not shocked. I am shocked by his crazy hatred for Teddy Roosevelt. I was always of the thought that most people on both sides of the aisle in both liberal and conservative ideology had some reverence for him.

Beck is a clown.. Blaming shit on Teddy...

607 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:39:09pm

re: #588 tradewind

Let's see... higher taxes for ten years. Cuts in medicare. Cuts in doctor payments. 16k new IRS inspectors to enforce fines on people who don't wanna play.
No kick in for years.
Yeah, it's a beaut.

higher taxes on who, pray tell? Not me! Unless I suddenly start making a TON more money.

Oh yeah, and this eventually makes it possible for me to have affordable health care as an independent contractor.

608 limewash  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:39:12pm

re: #574 tradewind

Er, no sorry No Deem and Pass, just and up or down vote. This was eliminated yesterday.

609 jamesfirecat  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:39:14pm

re: #598 HappyWarrior

I'm not shocked. I am shocked by his crazy hatred for Teddy Roosevelt. I was always of the thought that most people on both sides of the aisle in both liberal and conservative ideology had some reverence for him.

That's because Teddy was the man.

How many people grow up from being sickly kids with asthma to starting a speech with "I'll have to keep this brief as I have just been shot"?

610 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:39:20pm

re: #600 jamesfirecat
The pre-existing condition clause... something every Republican would agree to... doesn't even kick in for four.
Just hang on for four years, folks.//

611 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:39:20pm

re: #603 windsagio

<<<<<<<<<<

Neener.

Also, have a beer, you seem on edge >

I just woke up!

612 torrentprime  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:39:25pm

re: #563 Athens Runaway

Some problems with Frum's "analysis":

Republicans and conservatives did work with Democrats on this bill... Snowe, McCain, The Heritage Foundation all wanted to work to moderate the bill. Their efforts were rebuffed.

I know dancing on the graves of the GOP is the cool thing around here, but let's try to be the rationalists we all claim to be. Even Obama admitted that the GOP had good ideas (some of which were partially incorporated into his bill).

Did it hurt at all to claim simultaneously that GOP ideas were both rebuffed and incorporated in the final bill? I'm just wondering if directly contradicting yourself causes a twinge in the fingers, or something.

613 blueraven  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:39:33pm

re: #590 Stanley Sea

Cao from LA is the vote to watch.

Quite right about that. I had forgotten Cao. Wonder if he will now vote with the Stupak bloc?

614 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:39:51pm

re: #608 limewash

didn't you read? He didn't mean deem and pass, even tho' he said it >

615 Soap_Man  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:39:53pm

re: #598 HappyWarrior

I'm not shocked. I am shocked by his crazy hatred for Teddy Roosevelt. I was always of the thought that most people on both sides of the aisle in both liberal and conservative ideology had some reverence for him.

They do. But Glenn Beck is not "most people."

616 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:40:03pm

re: #607 WindUpBird
If you sleep better believing that stuff, then there's a health benefit for you after all.

617 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:40:27pm

re: #574 tradewind

If the bill passes, Dems own it and lose.
If the bill by some weird fate doesn't pass, Dems own the loss, and lose.
It's a lose-lose for them.
Deem and pass?
More like Demon Pass... and they're caught in it.

Oh Tradewind

618 limewash  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:40:27pm

re: #614 windsagio

lol

619 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:40:56pm

re: #608 limewash
Err, please read my post. Never said that Deem and Pass was passed.

620 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:41:16pm

re: #609 jamesfirecat

That's because Teddy was the man.

How many people grow up from being sickly kids with asthma to starting a speech with "I'll have to keep this brief as I have just been shot"?


Yep, a true bad ass. Can't wait to see what Scorsese's movie is like.

621 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:41:25pm

re: #616 tradewind

If you sleep better believing that stuff, then there's a health benefit for you after all.


hahaha I'm in too good a mood to take your goofy suspicions seriously :D

622 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:41:50pm

re: #619 tradewind

Err, please read my post. Never said that Deem and Pass was passed.

no, you just brought it up for your weak pun!

623 Lidane  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:42:13pm

re: #609 jamesfirecat

That's because Teddy was the man.

How many people grow up from being sickly kids with asthma to starting a speech with "I'll have to keep this brief as I have just been shot"?

Could you imagine any politician today starting a speech that way? I can't.

I like Teddy. I'd even take Nixon over the twatwaffles running the GOP these days.

624 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:42:18pm

re: #584 rurality

Media is about money and crazy sells, drama sells, news/facts are just too boring.

Usually, when people suggest that "The Media" isn't conservative or liberal, but is instead just pro-media, they get pilloried.

It is funny, though, that the people who claim to trust The Media the least are always willing to take The Media at face value.

625 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:42:22pm

re: #617 WindUpBird

Sigh.
Of course none of those idiotic moves are going to be used, but in desperation a few weeks ago, they sure as hell looked for them. The slaughterhouse rule, deem and pass... whatever Chicago-style politics would work.
Of course, reality set in, and they understood none of that would fly.

626 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:42:36pm

re: #622 WindUpBird
Exactly.

627 van helsing  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:42:39pm

One thing I keep missing is how this bill will reduce the cost of delivering health care.

I don't think limiting what doctors get paid is going to do that.

So how does the 'cost curve' get bent?

628 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:42:49pm

re: #622 WindUpBird

my theory is that he thought it was used and is backpedalling >>

PS: New thread, jump or stay? >>

629 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:43:26pm

re: #625 tradewind

Sigh.
Of course none of those idiotic moves are going to be used, but in desperation a few weeks ago, they sure as hell looked for them. The slaughterhouse rule, deem and pass... whatever Chicago-style politics would work.
Of course, reality set in, and they understood none of that would fly.

Reality set in = they got the votes. :)

630 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:43:42pm

re: #628 windsagio

my theory is that he thought it was used and is backpedalling >>

PS: New thread, jump or stay? >>

I dunno, I gotta get back to work

631 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:43:49pm

re: #621 WindUpBird
Good... I won't spoil it further.
That can wait 'til November.........

632 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:44:12pm

re: #545 jamesfirecat

That's right,

THE CAT, IS BACK!

And better than ever I might add!

I am now a 22 year old, do nothing, know it, liberal arts college attending, parent's healthcare relying upon (which given that my dad works for the FDA, make that government healthcare relying upon), catnip smoking, democrat!

I am back at college and back on LGF, or I will be for as long as it takes Bioshock 2 to install...

Welcome back.

633 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:44:16pm

re: #629 WindUpBird
Remember that Chinese proverb...

634 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:44:19pm

re: #630 WindUpBird

Forward it is then! I'd only stay in becasue you tend to not jump forwrad >>

635 jamesfirecat  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:44:55pm

re: #623 Lidane

Could you imagine any politician today starting a speech that way? I can't.

I like Teddy. I'd even take Nixon over the twatwaffles running the GOP these days.

Clear this up for me, "twatwaffles" is that an actual phrase or did you just lapse into Angrish? [Link: tvtropes.org...]

636 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:45:01pm

re: #545 jamesfirecat

That's right,

THE CAT, IS BACK!

And better than ever I might add!

I am now a 22 year old, do nothing, know it, liberal arts college attending, parent's healthcare relying upon (which given that my dad works for the FDA, make that government healthcare relying upon), catnip smoking, democrat!

I am back at college and back on LGF, or I will be for as long as it takes Bioshock 2 to install...

I still need to play that :(

637 austin_blue  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:45:12pm

re: #469 wiz 52

I'm sure after reading the posts here, that the people holding the signs, have had their backgrounds checked by everyone here, and you are all positive beyond any reasonable doubt that they are right wing extremists...the leftists are too dumb to plant anyone like this...right?? But judge you will and spout your pompous drivel at the horror of the sign.

As far as funding this bill..."See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them and gives it to the other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expence of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime." Frederic Bastiat This is, but again, legalized theft...

You seem unhappy, Grasshopper!

638 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:45:55pm

re: #598 HappyWarrior

I'm not shocked. I am shocked by his crazy hatred for Teddy Roosevelt. I was always of the thought that most people on both sides of the aisle in both liberal and conservative ideology had some reverence for him.

The great virtue of my radicalism lies in the fact that I am perfectly ready, if necessary, to be radical on the conservative side.
-- Roosevelt, to William Howard Taft, 4 September 1906

The insistence upon honesty- not merely technical honesty, but honesty in purpose and spirit- is an essential element in arriving at the right conclusion.
--Theodore Roosevelt, message to the first session of the sixtieth Congress, December 3 1907

639 allegro  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:45:59pm

re: #620 HappyWarrior

Yep, a true bad ass. Can't wait to see what Scorsese's movie is like.

OOooo, Scorsese is making a movie about Teddy? I can't wait! TR is one of my heroes, as founder of the Fish & Wildlife Service and Yellow Dog Club.

640 tradewind  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:46:06pm

re: #628 windsagio
Heh.
That's two things in one post you've gotten wrong. :)

641 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:46:59pm

re: #636 WindUpBird

for a reasonable fee, I can lend you my xbox >>

of course you say that, I'd say that too, if I'd screwed up and was dishonest :D

642 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:47:33pm

re: #639 allegro

OOooo, Scorsese is making a movie about Teddy? I can't wait! TR is one of my heroes, as founder of the Fish & Wildlife Service and Yellow Dog Club.

[Link: www.imdb.com...]
I can't wait. My favorite director and one of my favorite presidents.

643 windsagio  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:47:44pm

re: #641 windsagio

err, lol, second part was supposed to be a response to #640. Just as well probably.

644 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:48:05pm

re: #635 jamesfirecat

Clear this up for me, "twatwaffles" is that an actual phrase or did you just lapse into Angrish? [Link: tvtropes.org...]

[Link: xkcd.com...]

645 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:48:22pm

re: #528 Thanos

So then it was just a coincidence that you brought up two days that Christians say you shouldn't work during.

Yes, apparently. Those are sure two days not commonly associated with Congress being in session! They usually book out of DC as fast as possible in December for their leaisurely month long college break. And I thought not working on Sunday went out of fashion in the 1800's? No?

/I'm a sekrit Amish, lol...

646 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:48:22pm

re: #547 HappyWarrior

I've known hard-core libertarians who equate liberalism with National Socialism because of the alleged "socialist" connection. That's always bothered me. Hitler was anything but a socialist and you'd think that a quick review of history would reveal that but no...anything to demonize liberals is acceptable, history be damned.

647 Lidane  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:48:40pm

re: #635 jamesfirecat

Clear this up for me, "twatwaffles" is that an actual phrase or did you just lapse into Angrish? [Link: tvtropes.org...]

[Link: www.urbandictionary.com...]

Heh.

648 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:49:06pm

re: #636 WindUpBird

I still need to play that :(

I haven't played that either. Game I am waiting most for is Red Dead Redemption. GTA in the West :) it seems like it's gonna be. And it's coming out right around when I finish finals.

649 limewash  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:49:45pm

re: #619 tradewind

heh, but that's the way with the internet as I can't read your tone but must guess at what you meant. My interpretation reading your posting was it was a choice they had to make and if they did it was a "demon pass" which as I posted above it didn't need to be as they didn't use it. Oh well ways of the internet.

650 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:51:01pm

re: #646 eclectic infidel

I've known hard-core libertarians who equate liberalism with National Socialism because of the alleged "socialist" connection. That's always bothered me. Hitler was anything but a socialist and you'd think that a quick review of history would reveal that but no...anything to demonize liberals is acceptable, history be damned.

I always respond to people who say "the Nazis were socialist, they called themselves National Socialists" so do you believe that North Korea and Cuba are democratic? That generally quiets them.

651 allegro  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:51:17pm

re: #642 HappyWarrior

Thanks for the link. Leonardo DeCaprio is playing Teddy? Hmmm.....

652 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:51:58pm

re: #606 HoosierHoops

Beck is a clown.. Blaming shit on Teddy...

True. Glen Beck would not be fit to shine the shoes of either President Roosevelt. They were men, whereas he is a grown up child.

653 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:54:54pm

re: #651 allegro

Thanks for the link. Leonardo DeCaprio is playing Teddy? Hmmm...

not sure I like that. He's still too-boyish looking for my tastes in that role, though he is the same age TR was at the time. He's also smaller. He does have the acting chops to do it, however.

654 HappyWarrior  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 2:55:13pm

re: #651 allegro

Thanks for the link. Leonardo DeCaprio is playing Teddy? Hmmm...

Yeah. Apparently the movie is about his youth up until I think his time as VP so Leo can probably do it. I hated DeCaprio as a kid because all the girls I had crushes on wouldn't shut up how cute he was but he's a talented actor.

655 DaddyLawBucks  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 3:00:57pm

re: #555 blueraven

Good! and just what was that "crushing defeat" back in the 1960's? Could that have been the civil rights bill of '64?

Not that it's come up in the past hour or so, but anyone with a sign that hints at shooting to stop legislation should be an immediate guest of the DC Police in my opinion.

656 allegro  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 3:01:21pm

re: #653 Dark_Falcon

DeCaprio won me over in the acting department with The Aviator. Simply brilliant. My first thought, that you also mentioned, is that he is slight of build, lacking that solid physical presence.

re: #654 HappyWarrior

I tend to discount the cuties, too until they prove themselves. Tom Cruise in Fourth of July, Mel Gibson playing Hamslet...

657 Silvergirl  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 3:09:32pm

re: #653 Dark_Falcon

not sure I like that. He's still too-boyish looking for my tastes in that role, though he is the same age TR was at the time. He's also smaller. He does have the acting chops to do it, however.

Roundish faces on both. It could work.
Yes on the acting chops.

658 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 3:12:13pm

re: #597 The Sanity Inspector

We don't currently have to pay for the healthcare of China. We do currently pay for the healthcare of the uninsured in the United States. So that's a really nonsensical thing to say.

659 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 3:18:16pm

re: #627 van helsing

One thing I keep missing is how this bill will reduce the cost of delivering health care.

I don't think limiting what doctors get paid is going to do that.

So how does the 'cost curve' get bent?

All I can think of is that they will now have premiums coming in to the IRS from in from 20 million under 40 year-olds that never had insurance that will be used to fund the credits to the people who can't afford premiums but are now required to buy them, kinda like S.S. which will be a big ponzi scheme when the demographics run out as well. Those young people will never get as much out of it as they contributed. It, like S.S. will be broke by the time they need it. And the people who think health care will be a gift from the government might be shocked to find to find their hourly rates reduced by their employers to fund the employers now mandatory contribution, AND $200 to $400 every month taken out of their paychecks ala' FICA whether they like it or not when this kicks in, in a few years. The money has to come from somewhere.

660 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 3:19:20pm

re: #659 Claire

SS does not resemble a ponzi scheme. It has a glut of people in the pipe, that's all.

661 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 3:23:38pm

re: #660 Obdicut


It's the definiiton of a ponzi scheme when every dime you have contributed for 50 years has already been spent, and your retirement is being paid for by new people coming in. It's a ponzi scheme that fails when the supply of "new" people dries up.

662 Gus  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 3:25:54pm

Thanks for the hat tip Charles.

663 Claire  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 3:29:06pm

re: #660 Obdicut

SS does not resemble a ponzi scheme. It has a glut of people in the pipe, that's all.


And it's not a "glut" of people in the pipeline, the population has doubled since the plan was enacted That has now ended. One reason why illegal workers haven't been addressed. You have a "glut" of new workers paying into S.S. with no chance of ever collecting. Not all illegal workers are paid under the table. Sweet deal for the feds.

664 peterb  Sun, Mar 21, 2010 6:00:45pm

Over at freep/kook central, users are posting links to youtube videos of tarring and feathering. Fasten your seat belts, folks, it's going to be a long, hate-filled, and bumpy ride.


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