Boehner to GOP: ‘Behave Like Grown-Ups’

Politics • Views: 2,821

At a closed meeting yesterday, House Minority Leader John Boehner told GOP legislators to “behave like grown-ups.”

Now, why would he think it was necessary to tell them that?

House Minority Leader John Boehner told his conference to “behave like grown-ups” if the healthcare bill is passed by the House on Sunday.

The Ohio Republican made the warning at a quick closed-door meeting with fellow House GOP lawmakers at noon in the Capitol.

According to several lawmakers who attended the 15 minute meeting, Boehner said “we will behave like grown-ups,” and not engage in taunting the vulnerable Democrats who support the controversial measure.

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603 comments
1 thedopefishlives  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:13:03am

But Daddy…..!

2 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:13:19am

Wouldn’t that be refreshing

3 nanook37  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:16:47am

Of course to Boehner behaving like grown-ups means calling people babykiller on Fox News instead of on the house floor…

4 Petero1818  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:17:10am

Regrettably, attendance at the meeting was not mandatory.

5 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:19:51am

Before or after the toys leave the pram?

6 ShaunP  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:20:03am

re: #4 Petero1818

Regrettably, attendance at the meeting was not mandatory.

Regrettably, the people running our country need to be reminded to act like adults…

7 thedopefishlives  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:21:24am

re: #6 ShaunP

Regrettably, the people running our country need to be reminded to act like adults…

I’d say “When I grow up, I want to be a politician”, but you don’t have to grow up in order to be one.

/Which leads to the question, why do we have a minimum age in order to get elected to public office?

8 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:21:27am

Frankly I wish both parties and both sides of every issue would behave like grown-ups. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a sane and reasoned debate without both sides resorting to namecalling and pejorative insults?

9 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:21:41am

re: #6 ShaunP

Thankfully the GOP as currently constituted don’t come under that statement…………

10 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:22:52am

re: #8 Jetpilot1101

Frankly I wish both parties and both sides of every issue would behave like grown-ups. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a sane and reasoned debate without both sides resorting to namecalling and pejorative insults?

What the hell man, you like a Nazi or something!?
///

11 iceweasel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:23:22am

Act like the grownups at Free Republic, dammit!

Freepers So Angry They Will Burn Toast At You!

The latest “put a food item in the mail to Washington, DC in order to send a strongly worded message to whomever” stunt involves … a cooked bread thing! Note that bread does not appear even once in the Constitution, which is a smear on Ron Paul and our other Founding Fathers. This is why only toast can advance the cause of Freedom

As a gesture to all of the traitors that screwed over the United States of America last night, I propose the following:
Place a piece of bread in your toaster. ‘Cook’ it until it is charred black. Place charred toast in a suitable envelope. Mail said envelope to your representative in DC.
They’ll get the message…..

How about this: instead of taking advantage of the Socialist mail service — one that is about to collapse beneath the weight of its 14 bazillion obese pensioners with Cadillac retirement plans — just pop that fucker in the fax.

That second link is pretty funny too. (Apologies for the repost from downstairs but I’m still laughing at this)

Ok, later folks, have a good one!

12 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:23:41am

re: #8 Jetpilot1101

Frankly I wish both parties and both sides of every issue would behave like grown-ups. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a sane and reasoned debate without both sides resorting to namecalling and pejorative insults?

True. I would liked to have seen a real debate on healthcare proposals but the Republicans just weren’t interested.

13 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:24:07am

re: #11 iceweasel

frakking toasters…………….


(i know, i know also as downstairs)

14 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:24:51am

Speaking of childishly simplistic politics, the Texas SBOE has indeed removed Thomas Jefferson from part of the curriculum:

According to Texas Freedom Network, a group that opposes many of the changes put in place by the Board of Education, the original curriculum asked students to “explain the impact of Enlightenment ideas from John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Voltaire, Charles de Montesquieu, Jean Jacques Rousseau and Thomas Jefferson on political revolutions from 1750 to the present.”

That emphasis did not sit well with board member Cynthia Dunbar, who, during Friday’s meeting, explained the rationale for changing it. “The Enlightenment was not the only philosophy on which these revolutions were based,” Dunbar said.

We have heard from Dunbar before. She is a hard-core theocrat who once called public education a subtly deceptive tool of perversion. She undoubtedly wants to promote the myth that Christianity was the philosophical foundation of American independence.

In a book published last year, Dunbar argued the country’s founding fathers created “an emphatically Christian government” and that government should be guided by a “biblical litmus test.” She endorses a belief system that requires “any person desiring to govern have a sincere knowledge and appreciation for the Word of God in order to rightly govern.”

Also in the book, she calls public education a “subtly deceptive tool of perversion.”

The establishment of public schools is unconstitutional and even “tyrannical,” she wrote, because it threatens the authority of families, granted by God through Scripture, to direct the instruction of their children.

15 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:25:24am

BBL

16 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:26:40am

laters gaters.

i have to go play sport and drink beer, concurrently.

17 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:26:51am

re: #12 Killgore Trout

True. I would liked to have seen a real debate on healthcare proposals but the Republicans just weren’t interested.

Very true. November 2010 will be the telling election. Now that the bill has passed, if the American people feel that the Republicans were obstructionists, the Democrats will really gain big in the fall. If the people have the perception that they got a raw deal, the Democrats will have a rough go at it.

18 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:28:06am

re: #14 Shiplord Kirel


Universal schooling came about, strangely enough, because Christians believed that every person should be able to read the Bible and form their own opinion about it.

that idea expanded to the notion that people whould be able to read what they choose and form their opinion about anything (including the Bible)

19 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:28:45am

In other news, on this date the British Parliament passed the Stamp Act of 1765.

20 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:29:11am

Hmmm….
;)

21 webevintage  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:29:26am

I guess behaving like adults includes yelling “Baby Killer” on the floor of the house at another member.

I called Stupak’s office to thank him for his vote and the speech he gave last night on the floor.
I called my local Rep. too. The staffer was so happy to get a friendly call, she said the ones they are getting are unbelievably ugly. So if you are happy with either the Yes or No vote your Rep. gave last night make sure you let them know.

22 thedopefishlives  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:29:51am

re: #11 iceweasel

Act like the grownups at Free Republic, dammit!

Freepers So Angry They Will Burn Toast At You!

That second link is pretty funny too. (Apologies for the repost from downstairs but I’m still laughing at this)

Ok, later folks, have a good one!

I saw a quote downstairs that, paraphrased, ran as followers: “You know it’s bad when the folks at 4chan, the cesspool of the interwebs, are more mature than the freepers.”

23 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:29:53am

re: #8 Jetpilot1101

Frankly I wish both parties and both sides of every issue would behave like grown-ups. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a sane and reasoned debate without both sides resorting to namecalling and pejorative insults?

There are no wise few. Every aristocracy that has ever existed has behaved, in all essential points, exactly like a small mob.
— G. K. Chesterton

24 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:29:55am

re: #17 Jetpilot1101

Single payer liberals were a chunk of those disatisfied in polls - some congressmen will become moonbat targets, but hopefully not too many unless they are out of step with all party policy.

Democrats can run adverts in family areas about republicans voting to keep those children with preexisting conditions of insurance rolls…… couple of sob storys and a GOP candidate left to spin how freedom is more important than a dying child.

Win win.

25 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:30:44am

re: #22 thedopefishlives

a million notional updings for any reference to 4chan…………

26 Randall Gross  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:31:14am

re: #11 iceweasel

Now that’s funny.

I’ve been on the fence about Health care — neither hard core for or against more of “there’s probably some good, some bad, let’s wait and see”

But I will say it’s reallllly really great that it’s passed or in process of being passed for certain. This will take away one heck of a lot of uncertainty away for buttloads of fortune 500 co bean counters. The economy can start moving again. Things will fall and things will rise due to this short term, but longer term we will be trending more to normality simply because the bean counters can make their projections with a bit more certainty now.

27 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:31:34am

re: #22 thedopefishlives

I saw a quote downstairs that, paraphrased, ran as followers: “You know it’s bad when the folks at 4chan, the cesspool of the interwebs, are more mature than the freepers.”

4chan ain’t that bad!
XD

28 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:32:28am

re: #11 iceweasel

Act like the grownups at Free Republic, dammit!

Freepers So Angry They Will Burn Toast At You!

What a waste of perfectly good bread.

Plus, what if the congress person who gets that burned toast actually likes burnt toast? Does that mean the terrorists win?

29 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:32:43am

re: #8 Jetpilot1101

Frankly I wish both parties and both sides of every issue would behave like grown-ups. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a sane and reasoned debate without both sides resorting to namecalling and pejorative insults?

especially here at LGF?….not gonna happen

30 thedopefishlives  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:33:13am

re: #29 albusteve

Er, what?

31 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:33:29am

Boehner’s one to talk. His “Hell no!” tantrum on the house floor was pathetic.

And if he thinks he’ll be able to control the radical tea party people he so embraced this last year, he’s in for a surprise if Immigration Reform becomes the next big issue heading into November. The Brietbarts, Gellers, RS McCains, Ericksons, Malkins, Coulters, and Palins will be tough to control.

32 Soap_Man  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:34:13am

For all those who predicted a massive fall in the stock market today because the bill passed should look at the ticker. All three major markets are posting gains. Not to say that it will stay that way by the time the bell rings, but the market doesn’t seem to be pissed about it.

33 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:35:55am

re: #26 Thanos

I agree. The bean counters will be happy because they will know how much it is going to cost the company. The question is, will you be happy when they pass those “savings” on to you. No F500 company is going to take a hit on this legislation. If costs go up, we get screwed. If costs go down, the rates won’t drop. Either way, the F500 folks will get their bonuses and we’ll foot the bill.

34 Randall Gross  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:35:55am

re: #32 Soap_Man

For all those who predicted a massive fall in the stock market today because the bill passed should look at the ticker. All three major markets are posting gains. Not to say that it will stay that way by the time the bell rings, but the market doesn’t seem to be pissed about it.

Longer term just finally making the decision heads towards stability as I mentioned above. Nobody is in limbo anymore.

35 nyny  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:36:25am

I’m starting a new political party, “the rational party” only open to people who can spot and call out logical fallacies, even when they are being used to further their own agenda…

36 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:36:43am

The new talking point seems to be that the bill is “unconstitutional” and will be overturned by the SCOTUS.

Right. Like the income tax, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the Civil Rights Bill and that damned amendment that started us down the road to Maoism, the 14th.

Good luck with that, wingers.

37 Irenicum  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:36:47am

re: #14 Shiplord Kirel

I just read an article that mentioned that they also removed Oscar Romero, the Bishop of San Salvador who was assassinated during Mass. It makes sense actually, it’s not like there are any Latinos living in Texas.
/////

38 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:37:02am

re: #32 Soap_Man

Several large conmpanys would rather have a public scheme that their taxes would fund - as it would work out a helluva lot cheaper per employeee than their current schemes………

Drug companies wanted reforms that would make their products available to millions more people…………

39 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:37:20am

re: #32 Soap_Man

For all those who predicted a massive fall in the stock market today because the bill passed should look at the ticker. All three major markets are posting gains. Not to say that it will stay that way by the time the bell rings, but the market doesn’t seem to be pissed about it.

Plus, isn’t reading anything into a single day of trading premature? I’m not an investor, but I would think that long-term trends would be more of an indicator than a single snapshot in time.

40 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:37:26am

re: #36 Cato the Elder

The new talking point seems to be that the bill is “unconstitutional” and will be overturned by the SCOTUS.

Right. Like the income tax, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the Civil Rights Bill and that damned amendment that started us down the road to Maoism, the 14th.

Good luck with that, wingers.

a lawyers wet dream

41 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:38:10am

re: #32 Soap_Man

For all those who predicted a massive fall in the stock market today because the bill passed should look at the ticker. All three major markets are posting gains. Not to say that it will stay that way by the time the bell rings, but the market doesn’t seem to be pissed about it.

The market won’t care about this legislation as any increase in costs will be passed on to the consumer. What the markets will care about is if the US loses it’s AAA credit rating. If that happens, watch out below.

42 Soap_Man  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:38:11am

re: #39 Lidane

Plus, isn’t reading anything into a single day of trading premature? I’m not an investor, but I would think that long-term trends would be more of an indicator than a single snapshot in time.

You are absolutely right. I was just countering all the gloom-and-doom-in-the-market talk from last night.

43 GlutenFreeJesus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:38:50am

He better be careful… or else he will have bricks thrown through his windows too.

nytimes.com

44 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:38:52am

re: #39 Lidane

MArkets do have a tendency to snap violently one way or another with trader feeling - the lack of an implosion shows it wasn’t a massive rider.

LOnger term of course - we will have to see.

45 GlutenFreeJesus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:39:26am

re: #39 Lidane

Plus, isn’t reading anything into a single day of trading premature? I’m not an investor, but I would think that long-term trends would be more of an indicator than a single snapshot in time.

Of course, but you can surely imagine the fringe right’s reaction if stocks were down today…

46 Irenicum  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:39:27am

re: #21 webevintage

Thanks for doing that and thanks for the reminder.

47 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:41:12am

To Boehner: Why start now?

48 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:41:29am

re: #45 efuseakay

Of course, but you can surely imagine the fringe right’s reaction if stocks were down today…

Would it really be any different than their current reaction? The way they’re carrying on, you’d think the Republic had fallen into total anarchy and we were on the verge of civil war.

49 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:42:21am

re: #47 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Because he bet the proverbial house and needs to win back some good will from beyond jis current base in the depths of Hades.

50 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:43:14am

re: #48 Lidane

Would it really be any different than their current reaction? The way they’re carrying on, you’d think the Republic had fallen into total anarchy and we were on the verge of civil war.

The signs at the teaparty events suggest that would be the case.

51 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:45:19am

re: #50 wozzablog

Trash talk is cheap. Their signs are just that.

52 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:45:23am

later days people.

beer calling.

53 Sacred Plants  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:45:24am

re: #36 Cato the Elder

Good luck with that, wingers.

Do you think they might do so if Beck demonstrates them, or is he afraid that Palin might put herself in front of him?

54 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:45:53am

With the House set to vote on health-care legislation, the congressional debate on the issue seems to be nearing its conclusion. But if the bill does become law, the battle over federal control of health care will inevitably shift to the courts.

some simple explanations here…

washingtonpost.com

55 avanti  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:46:02am

Here’s A poster from Hot Air solution to the leftie media once the “conservatives” are back in power:

“While the GOP can’t do anything about the Print media, there is NOTHING in the constitution that says that the FCC HAS to renew MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN’s broadcast licenses. Technically, “Freedom of the Press” ONLY applies to PRINT media.

Easy way to shut down the leftist media: Simply don’t renew their licenses on the grounds of misuse.

Of course, there will still be lefty news rags, and the Internet. But conservatives can OWN the airwaves with a simple order to the FCC.”

56 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:47:50am

But hey, the world likes us now. Right?

57 crown_of_feathers  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:48:28am

re: #17 Jetpilot1101

“If the people have the perception that they got a raw deal, the Democrats will have a rough go at it.”

This is going to be an historic turnover of Congress. Mr. Obama needs to huddle with Bill Clinton, on how to deal with a majority-Republican Congress, because it is going to be 1994-redux.

Just my prediction.

I’m a bit agnostic as to whether this Health-Care bill is going to be o.k. or a not.

58 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:48:40am

re: #55 avanti

Yeah, McCarthyism is pretty popular these days.

59 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:48:55am

Boehner did a good thing that was also necessary … win/win

60 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:52:15am

re: #55 avanti

Yeah! Never mind that NBC, CBS, ABC and CNN are all part of multi-billion dollar corporations. I’m sure those companies won’t kick up a fuss at all if the gubmint tries to shut them down. They’ll just roll over and take that kind of censorship with magnanimity. *nods*

What a moran.

61 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:53:22am

re: #37 Irenicum

I just read an article that mentioned that they also removed Oscar Romero, the Bishop of San Salvador who was assassinated during Mass. It makes sense actually, it’s not like there are any Latinos living in Texas.
///

Interesting. Did they remove St. Thomas Becket too?

62 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:54:11am

The Senate will now have to pass the reconciliation package from the House word for word before the chain reaction of changes takes effect starting this year, and really ramping up in 2014.

Anyone thinking that this will be repealable in 2010, 2012, or beyond is really fooling themselves. Ditto for those who think that the courts will find penalty/tax provisions unconstitutional. It’s just not going to happen.

So, when this mess starts blowing out the budget in 2015, 2016, 2017, and beyond because all the CBO projections that didn’t include the Medicare/Medicaid changes that were separately considered weren’t worth the paper they were written on, we’ll be stuck with a far more costly system than envisioned and no one will be accountable for the mess we’ll have at that point. Add to that the fact that the bill voted on included billions from the higher education reviso to balance the books shows the lengths to which the Congress and WH went to get this done without showing the public the true costs for this package on a year over year basis - from now until 2014, the government will be collecting new taxes and fees to begin paying out ever larger amounts in the new programs starting in 2014.

Then, there’s the tax on high cost policies - the Cadillac plans. Unions won a reprieve until 2018. What’s to prevent them from again reducing the 40% tax or further delaying its implementation? That would be a budget buster right there. But because those issues are so far out in the distance, everyone seems to gloss over their costs or even practicality.

63 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:55:20am

re: #61 Cato the Elder

Interesting. Did they remove St. Thomas Becket too?

Yeah, they substituted Oral Roberts.

64 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:55:22am

re: #62 lawhawk

The Senate will now have to pass the reconciliation package from the House word for word before the chain reaction of changes takes effect starting this year, and really ramping up in 2014.

Anyone thinking that this will be repealable in 2010, 2012, or beyond is really fooling themselves. Ditto for those who think that the courts will find penalty/tax provisions unconstitutional. It’s just not going to happen.

So, when this mess starts blowing out the budget in 2015, 2016, 2017, and beyond because all the CBO projections that didn’t include the Medicare/Medicaid changes that were separately considered weren’t worth the paper they were written on, we’ll be stuck with a far more costly system than envisioned and no one will be accountable for the mess we’ll have at that point. Add to that the fact that the bill voted on included billions from the higher education reviso to balance the books shows the lengths to which the Congress and WH went to get this done without showing the public the true costs for this package on a year over year basis - from now until 2014, the government will be collecting new taxes and fees to begin paying out ever larger amounts in the new programs starting in 2014.

Then, there’s the tax on high cost policies - the Cadillac plans. Unions won a reprieve until 2018. What’s to prevent them from again reducing the 40% tax or further delaying its implementation? That would be a budget buster right there. But because those issues are so far out in the distance, everyone seems to gloss over their costs or even practicality.

Will the government still subsidize my health care?

65 Soap_Man  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:55:49am

Yeah, lets see how this works when immigration rolls around. All Republicans automatically voting against any Dem bill—and losing most or all of the Hispanic vote—will only ensure many electoral defeats in the near and distant future.

McCain: Don’t expect GOP cooperation the rest of this year

“There will be no cooperation for the rest of the year,” McCain said during an interview Monday on an Arizona radio affiliate. “They have poisoned the well in what they’ve done and how they’ve done it.”

I voted for you Sen. McCain, but that’s just dumb as shit.

66 nines09  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:56:38am
67 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:56:58am

Independents as a group outnumber either party, in other words. Yet, given the hyperpartisanship that began under George W. Bush — and has accelerated during President Obama’s first year, thanks in large part to the enabling mechanism of the Internet — one would think that America were divided into hard left and hard right.
We’re not. We’re a vast middle, slightly right-of-center nation. How is it that so many feel so disenfranchised by so few?

washingtonpost.com

68 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:59:47am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Yeah, McCarthyism is pretty popular these days.

Sure is. As was noted last night:

M. Stanton Evans, Karl Denninger to Receive Reed Irvine Accuracy in Media Awards

Press Release %P% February 25, 2009

WASHINGTON, February 25, 2009—Accuracy in Media will honor M. Stanton Evans and Karl S. Denninger for their outstanding contributions to journalism in a ceremony taking place during the 2009 Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC). The Reed Irvine Accuracy in Media Award is named for AIM’s founder, Reed Irvine, who was America’s first media watchdog.

“I am thrilled to recognize the excellent work of Stan Evans and Karl Denninger,” said Don Irvine, chairman of Accuracy in Media. “When my father started AIM 40 years ago, few would have believed that one day independent journalists like Stan and Karl would be empowered to stand up to the elite media by reporting the ‘other side’ of important stories. Stan Evans’ investigative reporting into the media’s vilification of Senator Joe McCarthy was truly groundbreaking, and Karl Denninger has been a force to be reckoned with in exposing the true cost of federal bailouts and stimulus measures.”

WHO: M. Stanton Evans, Author of Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America’s Enemies & contributing editor at Human Events; and Karl S. Denninger, Founder of The Market Ticker blog (market-ticker.org) & capital markets trader…

M. Stanton Evans - Mr. Evans, author of Blacklisted by History, is a HUMAN EVENTS contributing editor.

M. Stanton Evans is Medford S. Evans who was also active with the John Birch Society and author of:

Forced Integration is Communism in Action. Jackson, Miss.: The Citizens’ Council, 1962. (McCain Library Mississippiana E185.61 .E93 1962)

and

Civil rights myths and Communist realities by Medford Evans Conservative Society of America, 1965

Also note in this photo the sign in the center reading “Integration is Communism.” This was inspired by the Birchers and Mr. Evans.

69 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:01:04am

re: #64 Walter L. Newton

Will the government still subsidize my health care?

if you can call it that, yes…where are all the doctors, anesthesiologists, specialists, PAs and NPs gonna come from?….overseas?…just don’t get sick

70 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:01:06am

re: #67 albusteve

Independents as a group outnumber either party, in other words. Yet, given the hyperpartisanship that began under George W. Bush — and has accelerated during President Obama’s first year, thanks in large part to the enabling mechanism of the Internet — one would think that America were divided into hard left and hard right.
We’re not. We’re a vast middle, slightly right-of-center nation. How is it that so many feel so disenfranchised by so few?

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

Because of partisans of both sides making out like the hard right and the hard left have taken over the whole political process. Because of partisans of both sides giving over emphasis to the politics of the hard right and the hard left in order to manufacture outrage. Because of partisans of both sides making out like the hard right and the hard left is the topic du jour in any debate about the politics of this country.

In short… it’s the American Idol, MTV, reality TV version of politics, short, fast and cheap shots.

71 garhighway  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:03:10am

re: #69 albusteve

if you can call it that, yes…where are all the doctors, anesthesiologists, specialists, PAs and NPs gonna come from?…overseas?…just don’t get sick

Yup.

All those doctors will quit now that people with pre-existing conditions can get health insurance.

72 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:03:15am

re: #62 lawhawk

and how do the ‘soon to become citizens’ illegals fit in?…where is all this care gonna come from?

73 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:03:37am

Cue the ominous music!

Rush Limbaugh: America Hangs by a Thread(today’s radio show transcript)

Must be a pretty stout thread if Rush is hanging on with us.

74 garhighway  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:03:59am

re: #73 Shiplord Kirel

Cue the ominous music!

Rush Limbaugh: America Hangs by a Thread(today’s radio show transcript)

Must be a pretty stout thread if Rush is hanging on with us.

Kevlar

75 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:05:07am

re: #71 garhighway

Yup.

All those doctors will quit now that people with pre-existing conditions can get health insurance.

that makes no sense at all

76 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:05:19am

Megyn Kelly grilling Bart Stupak right now … good TV

77 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:05:47am

re: #73 Shiplord Kirel

Cue the ominous music!

Rush Limbaugh: America Hangs by a Thread(today’s radio show transcript)

Must be a pretty stout thread if Rush is hanging on with us.

Only until he gets to Costa Rica and all their universal health care. After that, we’re on our own.

78 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:05:52am

Revenge of the white men
Victims of the ‘he-cession’ are turning against the Democrats, and that could sway the November elections.


White men have moved away from Obama as well. The same proportion of white women approve of him — 46%, according to Gallup — as voted for him in 2008. But only 38% of white men approve of the president, which means that millions of white men who voted for Obama have now lost faith in him.

The migration of white men from the Democratic Party was evident in the election of Republican Scott Brown in Massachusetts. His opponent won 52% of white women. But white men favored Brown by a 60%-to-38% margin, according to Fabrizio, McLaughlin & Associates polling. Once again, Democrats could not win enough other votes to compensate for the white male gap.

latimes.com,0,754352.story

79 garhighway  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:07:11am

re: #75 albusteve

that makes no sense at all

I agree that thinking doctors would quit because more people have health insurance makes no sense.

But at its heart, that is the “doctors will quit because of HCR” idea.

So you tell me: how does that make any sense?

80 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:07:40am

re: #78 RogueOne

Revenge of the white men
Victims of the ‘he-cession’ are turning against the Democrats, and that could sway the November elections.

[Link: www.latimes.com…]

what a magnificent job the Great Unifier is doing!…how much more unification can BO stand?

81 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:08:36am

re: #78 RogueOne

Revenge of the white men
Victims of the ‘he-cession’ are turning against the Democrats, and that could sway the November elections.

[Link: www.latimes.com…]

So they must have gone back to being racist.

82 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:08:52am

re: #79 garhighway

I agree that thinking doctors would quit because more people have health insurance makes no sense.

But at its heart, that is the “doctors will quit because of HCR” idea.

So you tell me: how does that make any sense?

that poll was proven bogus…what are you talking about?

83 garhighway  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:09:46am

re: #82 albusteve

that poll was proven bogus…what are you talking about?

I’m glad we agree.

84 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:10:14am

re: #68 Gus 802

M. Stanton Evans - Mr. Evans, author of Blacklisted by History, is a HUMAN EVENTS contributing editor.

M. Stanton Evans is Medford S. Evans who was also active with the John Birch Society and author of:

Forced Integration is Communism in Action. Jackson, Miss.: The Citizens’ Council, 1962. (McCain Library Mississippiana E185.61 .E93 1962)

and

Civil rights myths and Communist realities by Medford Evans Conservative Society of America, 1965

Also note in this photo the sign in the center reading “Integration is Communism.” This was inspired by the Birchers and Mr. Evans.

The Lubbock paper carried Evans’s column back in the 80s. I still remember one particular column that attributed AIDS to the “loathesome couplings of male homosexuals…..”

85 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:10:32am

re: #80 albusteve

what a magnificent job the Great Unifier is doing!…how much more unification can BO stand?

Unification against is still unification. Perhaps he should have been more precise in what he wanted.

86 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:11:29am

re: #85 CyanSnowHawk

Unification against is still unification. Perhaps he should have been more precise in what he wanted.

All I remember is hearing some ambiguous musings about ‘hope’ and ‘change’. Well, we have a ShLoad of ‘change’…that’s for sure.

87 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:12:31am

re: #66 nines09

Grownups indeed. Let’s hear the Republican plan…

Fail #1: publishing the Republican Plan at Human Events.

88 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:14:06am

re: #81 Oh no…Sand People!

So they must have gone back to being racist.

Makes sense. I’ve been told I’m a white fascist oppressor for years, so might as well roll with it.

/

89 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:14:20am

re: #76 _RememberTonyC

Megyn Kelly grilling Bart Stupak right now … good TV

Word at Fox News and within the industry is that the lovely Ms. Kelly got to where she is by sleeping with Brit Hume. At least that’s what I’ve heard from my friends who work there.

90 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:15:16am

re: #89 drcordell

one of the fox news models - harumph.

91 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:16:18am

re: #62 lawhawk

Hi lawhawk. It appears to potentially blow out the states as well. Section 1311 of the bill addresses grants to states to set up American Health Benefit Exchanges. States will have the grants available, and may renew them - if they meet certain criteria.

However, there are two issues that may result in fiscal problems. First, the renewals (specifically the amounts, if any) will be at the Secretary’s discretion. And second: no grants (read “renewals” as that is where this is included) will be awarded after January 1, 2015.

So, to your point about blowouts in 2016 and beyond, it appears it may be a state problem as well as a federal one.

Senate Bill (pdf)

92 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:16:22am

And I can’t wait for the Republicans to try and gin up outrage to repeal the provisions of this bill. Where to start?

Repeal the clause that prevents insurance companies from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions?

Repeal the clause that allows children to stay on their parents insurance coverage until they are 26?

Repeal the clause that makes the requirements for policy rescissions and premium increases much stricter?

93 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:16:37am

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Makes sense. I’ve been told I’m a white fascist oppressor for years, so might as well roll with it.

/

I read it quite a bit as well on these here interwebs.

94 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:16:46am

re: #86 Oh no…Sand People!

drive by - but… i’m sorry, you really can’t have been listening very hard.

I know it’s fashionable to be all “how’s that hope’n’change workin….”….. but the guy had some very detailed plans during the election, it’s how everyone knew to hate him.

95 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:17:17am

re: #79 garhighway

I agree that thinking doctors would quit because more people have health insurance makes no sense.

But at its heart, that is the “doctors will quit because of HCR” idea.

So you tell me: how does that make any sense?

Doctors are already quitting taking Medicare patients over lack of suitable reimbursement, this will exacerbate that problem.

Many people see this bill as reducing incentives to become a Doctor or go into other medical related fields as well. We will see as medical field enrollments and graduations drop in response to such disincentives should they materialize.

96 webevintage  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:17:19am

re: #65 Soap_Man

McCain: Don’t expect GOP cooperation the rest of this year

And how is any different then what they have been doing since Jan 20th, 2008?

OR Grumpy old man is grumpy…..

97 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:17:50am

re: #95 CyanSnowHawk

Doctors are already quitting taking Medicare patients over lack of suitable reimbursement, this will exacerbate that problem.

Many people see this bill as reducing incentives to become a Doctor or go into other medical related fields as well. We will see as medical field enrollments and graduations drop in response to such disincentives should they materialize.

That will be news to my friends who are currently trying as hard as they can to get into a competitive med school.

98 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:18:13am

re: #94 wozzablog

drive by - but… i’m sorry, you really can’t have been listening very hard.

I know it’s fashionable to be all “how’s that hope’n’change workin…”… but the guy had some very detailed plans during the election, it’s how everyone knew to hate him.

He is redistributing things quite well. I’ll give him that.

99 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:18:15am

re: #89 drcordell

Nice piece of slander of Ms. Fox…

100 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:18:27am

re: #86 Oh no…Sand People!

All I remember is hearing some ambiguous musings about ‘hope’ and ‘change’. Well, we have a ShLoad of ‘change’…that’s for sure.

I keep my change in a jar next to my bed. Twice a year it provides enough money for a day or two at Disneyland.

101 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:18:28am

re: #93 Oh no…Sand People!

I read it quite a bit as well on these here interwebs.

Years of training on my part. I remember in the fourth grade being taught to sing the song “To be young, gifted and black” and thinking “Wait a minute, I’m white.” From that moment on, RACIST!

/

102 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:18:29am

re: #92 drcordell

And I can’t wait for the Republicans to try and gin up outrage to repeal the provisions of this bill. Where to start?

Repeal the clause that prevents insurance companies from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions?

Repeal the clause that allows children to stay on their parents insurance coverage until they are 26?

Repeal the clause that makes the requirements for policy rescissions and premium increases much stricter?

why don’t you simply address Lawhawks #62….if you feel like enlightening the group here, that would be a start

103 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:19:07am

re: #84 Shiplord Kirel

The Lubbock paper carried Evans’s column back in the 80s. I still remember one particular column that attributed AIDS to the “loathesome couplings of male homosexuals…”

I’m still learning about these connections and sort of came across this by accident last night. I find the idolization of Mr. Evans and recent re-emergence and idolization of McCarthy to be alarming. More so the interest with Mr. Evans who clearly showed his racist views during the 1960s. Mr. Evans is also a board member of the American Conservative Union. There are many examples as you not. Here’s another I just came across at Vdare showing that he still retains his racist views:

In 1973, Human Events published “A Tale of Two Heretics,” an article by M. Stanton Evans defending the research of Arthur R. Jensen, then at the University of California, Berkeley, and the late Richard Herrnstein of Harvard University. Jensen had published a controversial paper in the Harvard Educational Review in which he argued that the underlying cause of the black/white IQ gap, as measured by valid intelligence tests, was largely genetic in origin. It remains one of the most cited pieces of scholarship in the social science literature. Herrnstein’s 1973 book I.Q. and the Meritocracy received widespread condemnation from the left for arguing that class differences, poverty and economic disparities were not the result of capitalism or oppression, but primarily due to differences in IQ.

104 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:19:20am

re: #55 avanti

FAIRNESS DOCTRINE!11!!


Wait…

105 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:19:22am

re: #97 drcordell

That will be news to my friends who are currently trying as hard as they can to get into a competitive med school.

Your friends are too small a sample to treat statistically. You should know that.

106 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:19:27am

I am going to exit this thread. Later.

107 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:19:33am

re: #98 Oh no…Sand People!

7/8s in the healthcare system is certainly better than 5/6s.

108 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:19:45am

In a related issue, here’s some additional background on how the CBO came up with their budgetary figures. It’s a look at the tax law as currently in effect for 2010 and 2011 and beyond. It looks at what happens when the EGTRRA and JGTRRA expire (the Bush tax cuts - all of ‘em).

If Congress doesn’t act on these tax changes, the income tax rates will shift upwards - on top of whatever other changes are imposed by the health care legislation (think the payroll tax, surtaxes, and fees).

For 2011 - if no action is taken, these are the following rates for a single individual:

Not over $34,850 ………………………………………………………. 15% of the taxable income
Over $34,850 but not over $84,350 ……………………………… $5,227.50 plus 28% of the excess over $34,850
Over $84,350 but not over $176,000 ……………………………. $19,087.50 plus 31% of the excess over $84,350
Over $176,000 but not over $382,650 …………………………. $47,499 plus 36% of the excess over $176,000
Over $382,650 ………………………………………………………….. $121,893 plus 39.6% of the excess over $382,650

Add to that the AMT, which hits those taxpayers above certain income levels. The AMT has to be manually adjusted by Congress annually to reflect inflation and a failure to do so would mean that the AMT hits income levels lower than originally intended.

Also, certain tax credits expire or revert to pre-Bush cut levels, including EITC, child tax credit, homeowner tax credits, HOPE and education credits.

There are no major changes to the corporate tax rates, but certain deductions change.

Estate taxes revert to their pre-Bush cut levels.

109 webevintage  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:20:07am

re: #80 albusteve

what a magnificent job the Great Unifier is doing!…how much more unification can BO stand?

Wait.
It is Obama’s fault that white guys are unhappy?

110 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:20:18am

re: #106 Oh no…Sand People!

later days :-)

111 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:20:22am

re: #97 drcordell

That will be news to my friends who are currently trying as hard as they can to get into a competitive med school.

if they don’t already know that, then they can’t be too bright

112 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:20:31am

re: #102 albusteve

why don’t you simply address Lawhawks #62…if you feel like enlightening the group here, that would be a start

I don’t have a problem with the cadillac health care plan tax. I don’t have a problem with income taxes being raised. They are the lowest they have ever been in the history of the country. Raise them back up to the rates that they were at under Reagan, the earth seemed to continue rotating just fine back then…

113 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:21:09am

re: #109 webevintage

as long as they have football and porno and books about war - i think they will be happy enough.

/

114 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:21:19am

re: #105 CyanSnowHawk

Your friends are too small a sample to treat statistically. You should know that.

As opposed to the sample size of zero that you referenced with your brilliant prediction that nobody will want to be a doctor after this legislation?

115 Joo-LiZ  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:22:08am

Apparently it wasn’t such a closed meeting?

116 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:22:18am

re: #108 lawhawk

In a related issue, here’s some additional background on how the CBO came up with their budgetary figures. It’s a look at the tax law as currently in effect for 2010 and 2011 and beyond. It looks at what happens when the EGTRRA and JGTRRA expire (the Bush tax cuts - all of ‘em).

If Congress doesn’t act on these tax changes, the income tax rates will shift upwards - on top of whatever other changes are imposed by the health care legislation (think the payroll tax, surtaxes, and fees).

For 2011 - if no action is taken, these are the following rates for a single individual:

Not over $34,850 … 15% of the taxable income
Over $34,850 but not over $84,350 … $5,227.50 plus 28% of the excess over $34,850
Over $84,350 but not over $176,000 … $19,087.50 plus 31% of the excess over $84,350
Over $176,000 but not over $382,650 … $47,499 plus 36% of the excess over $176,000
Over $382,650 … $121,893 plus 39.6% of the excess over $382,650

Add to that the AMT, which hits those taxpayers above certain income levels. The AMT has to be manually adjusted by Congress annually to reflect inflation and a failure to do so would mean that the AMT hits income levels lower than originally intended.

Also, certain tax credits expire or revert to pre-Bush cut levels, including EITC, child tax credit, homeowner tax credits, HOPE and education credits.

There are no major changes to the corporate tax rates, but certain deductions change.

Estate taxes revert to their pre-Bush cut levels.

Sounds great. Our nation can’t continue to function without raising taxes.

117 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:23:08am

deal me back in in a few hours.

118 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:23:22am

re: #113 wozzablog

as long as they have football and porno and books about war - i think they will be happy enough.

/

I resemble that remark, except that you left out Mexican beer. I’m also still trying to figure out what sort of career enhancement I can offer Megan Kelly.
//

119 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:24:40am

re: #109 webevintage

Wait.
It is Obama’s fault that white guys are unhappy?

who said it was his fault?…

120 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:24:42am

re: #113 wozzablog

as long as they have football and porno and books about war - i think they will be happy enough.

/

Youtube Video

Heh.

121 avanti  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:24:47am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Yeah, McCarthyism is pretty popular these days.

Check your new Texas school text books, he’s a American hero now.

122 Soap_Man  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:25:33am

re: #111 albusteve

if they don’t already know that, then they can’t be too bright

First of all, uncalled for. Second, my girlfriend is in med school and this bill hasn’t changed her passion for becoming a doctor.

Everyone is acting like they only do it for the money. Some? yes. But all this “well they might make less so they just won’t want to do it” is horseshit. It is incredibly disrespectful to the profession.

123 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:25:58am

re: #116 drcordell

Taxpayers would disagree with that statement since their personal finances can’t continue to function if governments at every level keep taking an ever greater bit of their income.

124 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:26:16am

re: #89 drcordell

Word at Fox News and within the industry is that the lovely Ms. Kelly got to where she is by sleeping with Brit Hume. At least that’s what I’ve heard from my friends who work there.

Don’t care …. she is sharp and tough …. a real star on TV. Funny business happens all the time in TV, she would not be the first.

125 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:26:28am

re: #114 drcordell

As opposed to the sample size of zero that you referenced with your brilliant prediction that nobody will want to be a doctor after this legislation?

he didn’t predict that….you are making shit up, why do you do that?

126 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:26:29am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Yeah, McCarthyism is pretty popular these days.

Difficult to reconcile with your posts from yesterday, showing just how small the crowds of goofballs actually were.

127 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:27:40am

re: #99 HoosierHoops

Nice piece of slander of Ms. Fox…

Megyn Kelly would kick dr cordell’s ass in a discussion ….. he’d be road kill

128 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:27:51am

re: #114 drcordell

As opposed to the sample size of zero that you referenced with your brilliant prediction that nobody will want to be a doctor after this legislation?

I said there will be disincentives that will reduce the number of people going into the medical field. Where did you see that I said nobody would want to go into it? What are you? A Freeper or DKosian that sees issues in terms of black and white only?

129 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:28:24am

re: #122 Soap_Man

First of all, uncalled for. Second, my girlfriend is in med school and this bill hasn’t changed her passion for becoming a doctor.

Everyone is acting like they only do it for the money. Some? yes. But all this “well they might make less so they just won’t want to do it” is horseshit. It is incredibly disrespectful to the profession.

which has nothing to do with the original post, that doctors are receiving less and less in medicare reimbursement….if med students don’t know that, they should

130 avanti  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:28:27am

re: #65 Soap_Man

Yeah, lets see how this works when immigration rolls around. All Republicans automatically voting against any Dem bill—and losing most or all of the Hispanic vote—will only ensure many electoral defeats in the near and distant future.

McCain: Don’t expect GOP cooperation the rest of this year

I voted for you Sen. McCain, but that’s just dumb as shit.

The other team scored on a trick play, so take the ball and go home./

131 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:28:50am

re: #123 lawhawk

Taxpayers would disagree with that statement since their personal finances can’t continue to function if governments at every level keep taking an ever greater bit of their income.

So explain to me how our nation managed to become the single most powerful nation on earth with a top-bracket tax rate of 70% or higher up until the 1980’s? Am I missing something here? Were we not the greatest nation on earth from WWII onwards, despite the top tax bracket being twice what it is now?

132 The Yankee  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:29:03am

I kinda hope that Obama doesn’t do anything for the illegal aliens. Their are way too many racist in the Tea Party crowd and way too many of them have guns. And too many people that think that the Tea Partiers or right wing can not sin.

This environment is too much of a recipe for stupid cake to happen with violence on top.

Why do so many right wingers alarm at the potential for something bad to happen. I mean Rush isn’t really blind to the potential of violence these people have in them.

With that said what parts of the health care bill do you people see staying after 2012.

133 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:29:38am

re: #126 SixDegrees

Difficult to reconcile with your posts from yesterday, showing just how small the crowds of goofballs actually were.

All the goofballs were there yesterday?!?

134 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:30:35am

re: #127 _RememberTonyC

Megyn Kelly would kick dr cordell’s ass in a discussion … he’d be road kill

I’d love the chance to utterly disembowel any of the blonde talking heads on Fox “News.” The problem is, that would require Fox booking someone with an opposing viewpoint and a pair of balls. And the producer not cutting my mic once the discussion started heating up.

135 thedopefishlives  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:30:40am

re: #131 drcordell

So explain to me how our nation managed to become the single most powerful nation on earth with a top-bracket tax rate of 70% or higher up until the 1980’s? Am I missing something here? Were we not the greatest nation on earth from WWII onwards, despite the top tax bracket being twice what it is now?

Correlation does not imply causation. Do you seriously think that the ridiculously high income taxes of the post-WWII era caused the economic boom, or simply took advantage of it?

136 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:30:55am

Online polls I found at CNN, ABC, and FOX:

What is your reaction to the newly passed health care reform bill?

For it
43%
88870
Against it
41%
85353
Not sure
17%
34685
Total votes: 208908
CNN
==========
What Do You Think House Approval of Health Care Reform Will Mean?

Progress. This day is long overdue 2806
Big Mistake: We’ll be paying for this for years 3624
Total Votes: 6430
ABC
===========
Is Health Care Bill a Victory for America?

Yes. It’s not perfect, but it’s a giant step in the right direction. 16% (16,072 votes)
Unsure. I agree that the health insurance industry needs reform, but is this the answer? 4% (4,457 votes)
No. This is just a giant tax package wrapped in 2,700 pages stamped “health care reform.” 79% (81,615 votes)
Other 1% (1,151 votes)
Total Votes: 103,295
FOX

137 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:30:57am

re: #113 wozzablog

as long as they have football and porno and books about war - i think they will be happy enough.

/

Pie also helps.

138 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:31:04am

re: #130 avanti

The other team scored on a trick play, so take the ball and go home./

McCain should have said that last year…then the Democrats wouldn’t have wasted a year trying to get Republicans to cooperate on HCR.

139 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:31:34am

re: #97 drcordell

That will be news to my friends who are currently trying as hard as they can to get into a competitive med school.

You could always go with a sample size larger then your friends that’s also under a system where the government actually does control healthcare.

The same thing was supposed to happen in Canada when socialized medicine was first introduced. It didn’t. It’s still apparently supposed to happen but reality just says other wise. A few years ago the number of medical school seats was increased in an attempt to deal with the need for more doctors due to rising population. Naysayers said they wouldn’t be filled. Well they were and there is still a waiting list for doctors to get into schools.

140 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:31:55am

re: #132 The Yankee

I kinda hope that Obama doesn’t do anything for the illegal aliens. Their are way too many racist in the Tea Party crowd and way too many of them have guns. And too many people that think that the Tea Partiers or right wing can not sin.

This environment is too much of a recipe for stupid cake to happen with violence on top.

Why do so many right wingers alarm at the potential for something bad to happen. I mean Rush isn’t really blind to the potential of violence these people have in them.

With that said what parts of the health care bill do you people see staying after 2012.


You people? You people? Who are you calling you people?
/Tropic Thunder

141 albusteve  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:32:07am

re: #134 drcordell

I’d love the chance to utterly disembowel any of the blonde talking heads on Fox “News.” The problem is, that would require Fox booking someone with an opposing viewpoint and a pair of balls. And the producer not cutting my mic once the discussion started heating up.

yeah, you could just make shit up as you go along like you do here…that would sure be a winning strategy

142 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:33:19am

re: #132 The Yankee

I kinda hope that Obama doesn’t do anything for the illegal aliens. Their are way too many racist in the Tea Party crowd and way too many of them have guns. And too many people that think that the Tea Partiers or right wing can not sin.

This environment is too much of a recipe for stupid cake to happen with violence on top.

Why do so many right wingers alarm at the potential for something bad to happen. I mean Rush isn’t really blind to the potential of violence these people have in them.

With that said what parts of the health care bill do you people see staying after 2012.

Are you saying Obama shouldn’t do anything for the illegal aliens because tea partiers will get violent? There’s a sound basis for policy.

143 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:33:41am

re: #135 thedopefishlives

Correlation does not imply causation. Do you seriously think that the ridiculously high income taxes of the post-WWII era caused the economic boom, or simply took advantage of it?

Nowhere did I say that they caused the economic boom. I am merely pointing out that for the entire history of our nation up until the 1980’s the top tax brackets paid well above a 50% tax rate. And the economic growth of our nation was not stifled in any way.

Yet all I hear is people blathering on and on and on about how our economy is going to be crippled by raising tax rates to a fraction of what they were for 200 years. It’s complete and utter horseshit. Without higher tax rates, our government will be bankrupt. It’s as simple as that.

144 William of Orange  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:33:51am

If there ever was a winy ass titty baby, it’s Boehner. I heard him this morning i n a first speach and if that’s his way of behaving as a grown up, I seriously wonder what NOT behaving like a grown up is.

145 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:34:34am

re: #141 albusteve

yeah, you could just make shit up as you go along like you do here…that would sure be a winning strategy

Why don’t you keep talking about how great your border fence is going to work? We could all use a few laughs.

146 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:35:10am

re: #113 wozzablog

as long as they have football and porno and books about war - i think they will be happy enough.

/

Not to mention an average house with a nice hardwood floor….

147 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:36:17am

re: #134 drcordell

I’d love the chance to utterly disembowel any of the blonde talking heads on Fox “News.” The problem is, that would require Fox booking someone with an opposing viewpoint and a pair of balls. And the producer not cutting my mic once the discussion started heating up.

Over the top.

148 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:36:39am

re: #143 drcordell

entire history of our nation up until the 1980’s the top tax brackets paid well above a 50% tax rate.

Well, the entire history after February 3, 1913 anyway.

149 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:36:48am

re: #121 avanti

Check your new Texas school text books, he’s a American hero now.

Very sad.

150 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:38:01am

re: #141 albusteve

yeah, you could just make shit up as you go along like you do here…that would sure be a winning strategy

And would you care to point out a factual fallacy in anything I have said?

You’re calling me a liar for pointing out that historical tax rates were at 70% or higher for the top tax brackets up until the 80’s?

You’re challenging my assertion that the U.S. was the dominant economic power in the world from WWII onwards despite much higher taxes?

You’re calling me an idiot for pointing out that even with government participation in the healthcare sector, the medical profession will still be a highly competitive field? (see Canada for example)

151 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:38:25am

re: #132 The Yankee

I kinda hope that Obama doesn’t do anything for the illegal aliens. Their are way too many racist in the Tea Party crowd and way too many of them have guns. And too many people that think that the Tea Partiers or right wing can not sin.

This environment is too much of a recipe for stupid cake to happen with violence on top.

Why do so many right wingers alarm at the potential for something bad to happen. I mean Rush isn’t really blind to the potential of violence these people have in them.

With that said what parts of the health care bill do you people see staying after 2012.

“I kinda hope that Obama doesn’t do anything for the illegal aliens. Their are way too many racist in the Tea Party crowd and way too many of them have guns. And too many people that think that the Tea Partiers or right wing can not sin. “

“I really hope we don’t do anything that might upset the armed racists!”

Yeah that’s what democracy is all about, letting a small vocal group get their way because the majority is afraid to resist their demands….

152 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:39:59am

re: #146 jamesfirecat

Not to mention an average house with a nice hardwood floor…

But sometimes that just ain’t enough to keep a guy like me interested.

153 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:40:09am

re: #148 CyanSnowHawk

Well, the entire history after February 3, 1913 anyway.

This is true. The entire history of our nation once we ascended to world power status and decided that we would send our military to intervene in foreign conflicts routinely.

154 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:40:30am

re: #143 drcordell

Nowhere did I say that they caused the economic boom. I am merely pointing out that for the entire history of our nation up until the 1980’s the top tax brackets paid well above a 50% tax rate. And the economic growth of our nation was not stifled in any way.

Yet all I hear is people blathering on and on and on about how our economy is going to be crippled by raising tax rates to a fraction of what they were for 200 years. It’s complete and utter horseshit. Without higher tax rates, our government will be bankrupt. It’s as simple as that.

The top tax bracket went down but the percentage of total taxes paid by the top 10% of earners has gone up. They already pay more than they’ve ever paid and you want to raise the rates further? 10% unemployment, the largest tax increase in history passed yesterday, deeper in debt than we’ve ever been and you’re plan is to raise taxes? I don’t think you’ve thought this all the way through.

155 The Yankee  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:40:48am

re: #142 wrenchwench

Are you saying Obama shouldn’t do anything for the illegal aliens because tea partiers will get violent? There’s a sound basis for policy.

Not really, subconsciously yes. I just don’t feel like living in that reality right now.

Back in the Bill Clinton years it use to be easy to be apathetic about stuff. Now some of my customers are so scare/angry that I kind of got to pay attention to see if Obama is that evil.

Almost every time I have come to the realization that he is not, the end of the world is not coming after Health Care Reform.

156 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:41:29am

re: #154 RogueOne

The top tax bracket went down but the percentage of total taxes paid by the top 10% of earners has gone up. They already pay more than they’ve ever paid and you want to raise the rates further? 10% unemployment, the largest tax increase in history passed yesterday, deeper in debt than we’ve ever been and you’re plan is to raise taxes? I don’t think you’ve thought this all the way through.

/Yeah, its crazy to think that if our government is in debt it should see that it can get its hand on more money so that it can pay off its debt!

157 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:41:45am

re: #154 RogueOne

The top tax bracket went down but the percentage of total taxes paid by the top 10% of earners has gone up. They already pay more than they’ve ever paid and you want to raise the rates further? 10% unemployment, the largest tax increase in history passed yesterday, deeper in debt than we’ve ever been and you’re plan is to raise taxes? I don’t think you’ve thought this all the way through.

When the only tool in your belt is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

158 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:42:24am

re: #144 William of Orange

If there ever was a winy ass titty baby, it’s Boehner. I heard him this morning i n a first speach and if that’s his way of behaving as a grown up, I seriously wonder what NOT behaving like a grown up is.

Boehner is a special needs Representative. One should not question his words or his motives…nor should one listen to him. Just smile and say, “Very good, Johnny.”

159 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:42:28am

re: #150 drcordell

You’re calling me a liar for pointing out that historical tax rates were at 70% or higher for the top tax brackets up until the 80’s?

Perhaps a history lesson is in order.

I would say ignorant rather than liar. I suspect that you are a liar, but you might actually have some friends and they might actually be trying to get into med school.

160 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:42:31am

re: #156 jamesfirecat

/Yeah, its crazy to think that if our government is in debt it should see that it can get its hand on more money so that it can pay off its debt!

Well, they could also downsize themselves. But that would break Maxwell’s equations or some other physical law, apparently.

161 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:42:38am

re: #131 drcordell

Despite (or in spite of) the confiscatory taxes then in existence. One could rightfully argue that had the tax rate been even lower, there would have been still more economic growth and development.

Here are the tax rates as in effect since 1913. Since you mentioned Reagan’s tax rates when you initially responded back - note that as a result of the IRC changes of 1986, the top tax rates dropped from 50% to 38.5% and then to 28%. It then rose back to 39.6% in the Clinton years, to be cut back for the Bush cuts in 2001/2003.

162 avanti  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:42:53am

Palin, just mentioned the 16,000 new IRS employees to enforce the new health care bill. I’ve heard that talking point over and over. Please, someone, anyone, tell me where that comes from ??

163 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:43:18am

re: #155 The Yankee

I just don’t feel like living in that reality right now.

I guess it’s nice to have a selection of realities from which to choose.

164 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:43:34am

re: #153 drcordell

This is true. The entire history of our nation once we ascended to world power status and decided that we would send our military to intervene in foreign conflicts routinely.

Hardly the entire 200+ year history you referred to earlier now, is it?

165 thedopefishlives  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:43:42am

re: #163 wrenchwench

I guess it’s nice to have a selection of realities from which to choose.

Sometimes it is. It depends on which voice in my head is talking at the time.

166 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:44:16am

re: #160 The Sanity Inspector

Well, they could also downsize themselves. But that would break Maxwell’s equations or some other physical law, apparently.

I’ve got an idea, lets do the Japan thing where we downsize our army to the point that it’s only large enough to be used defensively!

How’s that for a spending cut?

167 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:44:25am

re: #152 Guanxi88

But sometimes that just ain’t enough to keep a guy like me interested.

So you have to go out and have fun at someone else’s expense?

168 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:44:47am

re: #154 RogueOne

The top tax bracket went down but the percentage of total taxes paid by the top 10% of earners has gone up. They already pay more than they’ve ever paid and you want to raise the rates further? 10% unemployment, the largest tax increase in history passed yesterday, deeper in debt than we’ve ever been and you’re plan is to raise taxes? I don’t think you’ve thought this all the way through.

And you don’t see the correlation here at all? Let’s think for a second about why the richest 1% of Americans is paying the highest percentage of overall taxes in history. It’s not because the tax rates for the middle class have gotten lower. It’s because the middle class has gotten progressively poorer.

The richest 1% has gotten progressively richer while everyone else has seen their income stagnate. When 1% of the nation controls 40% of the wealth, obviously their tax burden will be substantially higher as well. The Gini Coefficient of the U.S. will reach that of Mexico’s in the next 30 years if we continue on the same path. Creating a stronger middle class tax base is the way to reduce the tax burden of the wealthiest Americans.

169 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:45:15am

re: #160 The Sanity Inspector

Well, they could also downsize themselves. But that would break Maxwell’s equations or some other physical law, apparently.

Hell, I think the Treasury ought to start buying Berkshire Hathaway bonds, like everybody else. Sometimes, they you need a sure thing, and treasuries ain’t it anymore.

170 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:46:02am

re: #156 jamesfirecat

/Yeah, its crazy to think that if our government is in debt it should see that it can get its hand on more money so that it can pay off its debt!

Of course not spending money you don’t have didn’t occur to anyone?

171 The Yankee  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:46:24am

re: #163 wrenchwench

I guess it’s nice to have a selection of realities from which to choose.

Yea they almost done legalizing medical marijuana in my state.

172 Soap_Man  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:47:35am

re: #170 RogueOne

Of course not spending money you don’t have didn’t occur to anyone?

How about cutting spending and raising taxes? I don’t think we can get out of debt while only doing one or the other.

173 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:48:36am

re: #164 CyanSnowHawk

Hardly the entire 200+ year history you referred to earlier now, is it?

You understand the point I’m trying to make. The U.S. economy prior to 1913 was barely industrialized.

174 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:48:41am

re: #166 jamesfirecat

I’ve got an idea, lets do the Japan thing where we downsize our army to the point that it’s only large enough to be used defensively!

How’s that for a spending cut?

But who will we get to build major bases here to serve as a deterrent?

175 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:48:54am

re: #171 The Yankee

Yea they almost done legalizing medical marijuana in my state.

Which state is that? Do you get to choose that as well?

176 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:49:13am

re: #172 Soap_Man

How about cutting spending and raising taxes? I don’t think we can get out of debt while only doing one or the other.

Works for me, plus raise taxes/cut spending are just buzzwords.

Who are we gonna raise taxes on (I vote the rich not being one of them) and what should we cut spending on? (I vote not the FDA or Public Schools since my dad works for the first, and my mom for the second)

177 The Yankee  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:49:58am

re: #175 wrenchwench

New Jersey I am not up on the details. In Cali it was easy to get a script from a doctor though.

178 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:50:20am

re: #92 drcordell

And I can’t wait for the Republicans to try and gin up outrage to repeal the provisions of this bill. Where to start?

Repeal the clause that prevents insurance companies from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions?

Repeal the clause that allows children to stay on their parents insurance coverage until they are 26?

Repeal the clause that makes the requirements for policy rescissions and premium increases much stricter?

Why wouldn’t they just let the Dems stew in their own juice?
Just add “gin” and stir.

179 Cineaste  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:50:22am

re: #95 CyanSnowHawk

Doctors are already quitting taking Medicare patients over lack of suitable reimbursement, this will exacerbate that problem.

This is a myth.

Big hospitals actually quite like Medicare vs. private insurance. While Medicare might pay $90 for a procedure that the private insurers offer $120 for the way Medicare works is they send you a check for $90 in 30 days. Period. No debates, no haggling and no hassling.

The private insurers hold all their bills until the end of the year. Then they bundle them all together and say to the hospitals: “listen, this is a lot of money. Cut us a deal.” The hospitals then spend several months, with their lawyers and account teams, negotiating a final price for everything. Eventually the private insurers pay, but it’s probably only $100, not the $120 they were billed. And it took a year and all the cost & man-hours of negotiating. In the end, they would have rather had $90 a year earlier without any expenses.

The other thing that happens is that Blue Cross & Blue Shield have a scam running between the states. If you are in Blue Cross in Maryland and have a procedure done in New York, Maryland’s Blue Cross pays Empire Blue Cross (New York’s) but Empire’s doesn’t pay the hospital. The hospital then comes after you for the bills and you have to show them that you paid and that your insurer paid. Then the hospital has to fight with Empire Blue Cross who does the same “hold & negotiate” strategy. There is currently a set of hospitals in Long Island that have banded together and filed suit against Empire Blue Cross for this.

181 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:50:40am

re: #166 jamesfirecat

I’ve got an idea, lets do the Japan thing where we downsize our army to the point that it’s only large enough to be used defensively!

How’s that for a spending cut?

Erm, like so many of our allies, since WWII Japan relies on us for the heavy lifting of their defense. Notice how we had to get involved in Bosnia because the Europeans couldn’t put out a brushfire in their own front yard. No, isolationism is not an option for us, and hasn’t been since the 1930s.

182 jvic  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:50:55am

Boehner to GOP: ‘Behave Like Grown-Ups’

Good.

A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single step.

But one swallow does not a summer make.

Burma Shave.

183 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:51:16am

re: #173 drcordell

You understand the point I’m trying to make. The U.S. economy prior to 1913 was barely industrialized.

Ah, the “don’t listen to what I say, listen to what I mean” gambit.

Isn’t there a fancy Latin phrase for that? If you want to win an argument fought with words, you really must use them correctly.

184 Cineaste  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:51:25am

re: #179 Cineaste

I should clarify, there are Doctors who quit Medicare for better money but they generally quit in favor of not taking any insurance, not in favor of private insurance.

185 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:51:42am

re: #172 Soap_Man

How about cutting spending and raising taxes? I don’t think we can get out of debt while only doing one or the other.

When the economy is in the toilet like ours (that should be something everyone can agree on) the worst thing to do is to increase taxes. Until the economy starts to come around they have no other option than to decrease spending.

186 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:51:43am

re: #173 drcordell

You understand the point I’m trying to make. The U.S. economy prior to 1913 was barely industrialized.

No point you attempt to make on anything means nothing until you apologize or take back or ask Charles to delete your Charles Manson comment above about disemboweling women. Until then, you don’t exist for me.

187 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:52:12am

re: #67 albusteve

Favorite part

As John Avlon writes in his book, “Wingnuts,” the lunatic fringe may have networks and netroots, “but we [centrists] have the numbers.” Isn’t it time we stand up to the extremes on both sides?

Well yeah! Past time.

188 Cineaste  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:52:36am

re: #180 Shiplord Kirel

Rush Limbaugh: “We Need To Defeat These Bastards” (Video)

Didn’t he promise us he’d leave if this passed? Rush, please keep your promise.

189 Cineaste  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:53:15am

re: #181 The Sanity Inspector

Erm, like so many of our allies, since WWII Japan relies on us for the heavy lifting of their defense. Notice how we had to get involved in Bosnia because the Europeans couldn’t put out a brushfire in their own front yard. No, isolationism is not an option for us, and hasn’t been since the 1930s.

Also - wasn’t Japan prohibited from building an offensive capability for decades after WWII?

190 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:53:31am

re: #176 jamesfirecat

Works for me, plus raise taxes/cut spending are just buzzwords.

Who are we gonna raise taxes on (I vote the rich not being one of them) and what should we cut spending on? (I vote not the FDA or Public Schools since my dad works for the first, and my mom for the second)

Cutting spending is not a buzzword. My state is currently cutting because we have a governor who has a brain in his head and not owned by the public employees union. When you don’t have the money and you can’t raise taxes what other option is there? This is basic math. Your options are to go broke or cut spending.

191 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:53:41am

re: #168 drcordell

And you don’t see the correlation here at all? Let’s think for a second about why the richest 1% of Americans is paying the highest percentage of overall taxes in history. It’s not because the tax rates for the middle class have gotten lower. It’s because the middle class has gotten progressively poorer.

The richest 1% has gotten progressively richer while everyone else has seen their income stagnate. When 1% of the nation controls 40% of the wealth, obviously their tax burden will be substantially higher as well. The Gini Coefficient of the U.S. will reach that of Mexico’s in the next 30 years if we continue on the same path. Creating a stronger middle class tax base is the way to reduce the tax burden of the wealthiest Americans.

That’s not true..I have a middle class tax cut under Obama of 38.00 every month than under Bush..That’s a fact..
In fact I’d give that 38 bucks up for Healthcare for the uninsured..
But that’s just me…And tax hikes on the really rich? Oh well..Those folks seem to always afford an Audi T4 Convertible and a Beach front Malibu home…Some how they will survive…

192 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:54:14am

re: #183 CyanSnowHawk

Ah, the “don’t listen to what I say, listen to what I mean” gambit.

Isn’t there a fancy Latin phrase for that? If you want to win an argument fought with words, you really must use them correctly.

You understand exactly what I meant. Which is most relevant to the U.S. economy today, the tax rate in 1899, or the tax rate in 1979? You’re completely deflecting away from the topic at hand here. Tax rates from 1913 until the early 80’s were at 70%+ for the highest bracket. And we did just fine. Explain why that wouldn’t be the case today.

193 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:55:06am

re: #190 RogueOne

Cutting spending is not a buzzword. My state is currently cutting because we have a governor who has a brain in his head and not owned by the public employees union. When you don’t have the money and you can’t raise taxes what other option is there? This is basic math. Your options are to go broke or cut spending.

I’m saying that having someone shout “I’d cut spending” by itself seems like a buzzword to me unless you have actual information on what they want to decrease the spending on.

That seem fair to you?

194 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:55:33am

re: #192 drcordell

You understand exactly what I meant. Which is most relevant to the U.S. economy today, the tax rate in 1899, or the tax rate in 1979? You’re completely deflecting away from the topic at hand here. Tax rates from 1913 until the early 80’s were at 70%+ for the highest bracket. And we did just fine. Explain why that wouldn’t be the case today.

If you’re looking for a return to the economy of the late 70’s then congratulations, you got it.

195 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:55:33am

re: #189 Cineaste

Also - wasn’t Japan prohibited from building an offensive capability for decades after WWII?

Yep so using them as an example is a bit off base.

196 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:56:00am

re: #186 Silvergirl

No point you attempt to make on anything means nothing until you apologize or take back or ask Charles to delete your Charles Manson comment above about disemboweling women. Until then, you don’t exist for me.

Yeah because the term “disembowel” has never been used in a figurative sense to describe dominating someone in a verbal argument. Get over yourself. From the context of the sentence you seriously believe that I meant I wish to go on Fox News and then literally cut Megyn Kelly’s stomach open and remove her organs? Really? In the sentence prior to my mentioning that my fear would be the producers cutting off my microphone?

197 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:56:04am

re: #194 RogueOne

If you’re looking for a return to the economy of the late 70’s then congratulations, you got it.

Just so long as we don’t return the economy to the early 30’s….

198 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:56:16am

re: #189 Cineaste

Also - wasn’t Japan prohibited from building an offensive capability for decades after WWII?

Yes.

Article 9

The Constitution came into effect on May 3, 1947, immediately following World War II. In its text, the state formally renounces war as a sovereign right and bans settlement of international disputes through the use of force. The article also states that, to accomplish these aims, armed forces with war potential will not be maintained.

199 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:56:26am

re: #168 drcordell

Well said.

The focus on income taxes is always kind of funny to me, given the existence of capital gains taxes. As Buffett and others have repeatedly reminded us, most of the ultra-rich pay a lower percentage of taxes than do people like myself, who make quite a high wage but who rely on income from actual work rather than unearned income.

This is one of the main things contributing to the increasing gap in wealth between the richest 1% and the middle class.

Social, economic mobility is at the heart of the American dream, and the blunt reality is that our mobility has been slowing and slowing over the years.

We need to revitalize the economic mobility in the US. We need it badly.

200 Cineaste  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:56:38am

re: #195 Jadespring

Yep so using them as an example is a bit off base.

It’s really irksome when people don’t know their history!

201 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:57:24am

re: #180 Shiplord Kirel

Yikes! The wingnut-o-sphere has gone completely apeshit even by their rarefied standards.
These are new string titles posted at Free Republic just during the last half hour:

Attorneys general in 12 states poised to challenge healthcare bill (for starters)

State AGs Start the Road to Repealing Obamacare

Calm Despair(John Derbyshire on HCR)

My Thoughts on Watching the Dems Stab the Constitution on the Congressional Floor(Ben “Expelled” Stein)

Useful Idiot Geraldo Rivera Is Giddy After Dems Vote to Nationalize Health Care (Video)

Rush Limbaugh: “We Need To Defeat These Bastards” (Video)

Parnell: Governor Comments on National Health Care(Alaska)

Vanity: Did the Dam Burst Sunday Night?

The Fort Sumter Healthcare Vote

The constitutional issue may well be a real one.
Federal vs State rights.

202 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:57:27am

re: #184 Cineaste

There are doctors who quit Medicare - stop accepting new patients. The same thing happens with insurance companies too; the doctors opt to no longer take certain insurance companies or accepting new patients. Some doctors are fed up trying to deal with all the paperwork and instead attempt to go cash only - because it means lower overhead (no need for a separate claims’ processor).

203 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:57:33am

re: #189 Cineaste

Also - wasn’t Japan prohibited from building an offensive capability for decades after WWII?

Hi Cineaste! Yes. It is why the name of Japan’s armed forces was the JDA - Japanese Defense Agency. IIRC, that name was changed a few years ago to the Defense Ministry, but the concept remains basically the same I believe.

204 Cineaste  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:57:56am

re: #198 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Absolutely correct. I think we made a good deal in agreeing to end WWII and provide military protection to Japan in exchange for them making an agreement not to go around starting World Wars anymore.

205 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:57:58am

re: #194 RogueOne

If you’re looking for a return to the economy of the late 70’s then congratulations, you got it.

Duhhhh… what about the economy from 1942 to 1969? Come on man, you can seriously do better than a lame Carter joke.

206 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:58:15am

re: #193 jamesfirecat

I’m saying that having someone shout “I’d cut spending” by itself seems like a buzzword to me unless you have actual information on what they want to decrease the spending on.

That seem fair to you?

1/2 the time when they say “we’re going to cut spending” you’re right, they don’t mean any such thing. They mean they’re going to cut the rate of growth. Indiana is actually cutting spending, we’re spending less this year than we did last year because we have to. The rest of the states that took all that stimulus money as a short-term fix to cover their public employee sector are going to be screwed next year and somehow we’ll all be asked to chip in again to cover their losses.

207 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:58:19am

re: #203 subsailor68

Hi Cineaste! Yes. It is why the name of Japan’s armed forces was the JDA - Japanese Defense Agency. IIRC, that name was changed a few years ago to the Defense Ministry, but the concept remains basically the same I believe.

I thought it was SDF, Self Defense Force, but my info on Japan’s military mostly comes from Monster Movies and Excel Saga….

208 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:59:04am

re: #186 Silvergirl

It’s pretty clear he meant ‘rhetorically disembowel’. I don’t like the phrase either, but I think you’re totally wrong to call it a “Charles Manson” comment.

209 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:59:32am

re: #208 Obdicut

It’s pretty clear he meant ‘rhetorically disembowel’. I don’t like the phrase either, but I think you’re totally wrong to call it a “Charles Manson” comment.

“If you just followed this show on the blogs, you would think I was just running around town, cutting people open from scrote to sternum, wearing their skin as a trophy.”

Jon Stewart….

210 Cineaste  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:59:39am

re: #202 lawhawk

There are doctors who quit Medicare - stop accepting new patients. The same thing happens with insurance companies too; the doctors opt to no longer take certain insurance companies or accepting new patients. Some doctors are fed up trying to deal with all the paperwork and instead attempt to go cash only - because it means lower overhead (no need for a separate claims’ processor).

Absolutely correct - I modified my statement with #184

211 Soap_Man  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 10:59:59am

re: #206 RogueOne

1/2 the time when they say “we’re going to cut spending” you’re right, they don’t mean any such thing. They mean they’re going to cut the rate of growth. Indiana is actually cutting spending, we’re spending less this year than we did last year because we have to. The rest of the states that took all that stimulus money as a short-term fix to cover their public employee sector are going to be screwed next year and somehow we’ll all be asked to chip in again to cover their losses.

Mitch Daniels is somebody I would love to vote for. But, even if he does run, I don’t know if he could get through the current field of losers the GOP is touting.

212 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:00:25am

Marketing knows no bounds:

Oathkeepers (yes, the wingnut conspiracy mob) is sponsoring a motorsports team. Specifically, this is Conquer Motorsports, which currently competes in the Lucas Oil Off-Road Race and has experience in NASCAR, motocross, and drag racing. It is owned by an Oathkeepers member btw.

Perhaps this is a response to the Census Bureau’s NASCAR sponsorship.

213 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:00:30am

re: #196 drcordell

Yeah because the term “disembowel” has never been used in a figurative sense to describe dominating someone in a verbal argument. Get over yourself. From the context of the sentence you seriously believe that I meant I wish to go on Fox News and then literally cut Megyn Kelly’s stomach open and remove her organs? Really? In the sentence prior to my mentioning that my fear would be the producers cutting off my microphone?

Poor, poor choice of words. Whether they’re universally accepted as dominating in an argument or not, you chose them, and you’re a misogynist on permanent ignore.

214 Donna Ballard  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:00:33am

re: #56 Oh no…Sand People!

But hey, the world likes us now. Right?

As long as the world owes us money we will never be liked. The think we grown the stuff on trees and can afford to toss it to anyone who puts their hand out, which is how we treat the stuff anyway, and forget about getting any of it back!

215 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:00:41am

re: #201 Spare O’Lake

The constitutional issue may well be a real one.
Federal vs State rights.

and a lawsuit like that that actually wins would be devastating. If the USSC decides the feds cannot force an individual to buy insurance then the way they plan on paying for all this goes out the window. Personally I don’t think the feds have the authority to tell someone they have to buy medical insurance but I’m going to go out on a limb (sarcasm) and say the USSC will probably disagree with me.

216 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:00:44am

re: #211 Soap_Man

Isn’t he a Socon?

217 Univac  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:00:52am

re: #207 jamesfirecat

Their “Navy” is (or at least was) the JMSDF - Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.

They went to the “Academy” for four years, then to their respective academy (Army, Air force, Navy) for one year.

218 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:00:58am

re: #208 Obdicut

I read it and instantly felt it violates rule #4, makes the blog look awful, and is way over the line.

219 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:01:09am

Crazy Pam is gonna flip when she sees this…
A 2010 Census Message from Nickelodeon’s Dora the Explorer

Youtube Video

220 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:01:34am

re: #199 Obdicut

Well said.

The focus on income taxes is always kind of funny to me, given the existence of capital gains taxes. As Buffett and others have repeatedly reminded us, most of the ultra-rich pay a lower percentage of taxes than do people like myself, who make quite a high wage but who rely on income from actual work rather than unearned income.

This is one of the main things contributing to the increasing gap in wealth between the richest 1% and the middle class.

Social, economic mobility is at the heart of the American dream, and the blunt reality is that our mobility has been slowing and slowing over the years.

We need to revitalize the economic mobility in the US. We need it badly.

Exactly. Warren Buffett has repeatedly emphasized that he pays a lower effective tax rate than his secretary.

221 Cineaste  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:01:40am

re: #215 RogueOne

and a lawsuit like that that actually wins would be devastating. If the USSC decides the feds cannot force an individual to buy insurance then the way they plan on paying for all this goes out the window. Personally I don’t think the feds have the authority to tell someone they have to buy medical insurance but I’m going to go out on a limb (sarcasm) and say the USSC will probably disagree with me.

Ironically, the workaround at that point might well be single-payer since that could be a government tax which they are entitled to levy…

222 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:01:48am

re: #211 Soap_Man

Mitch Daniels is somebody I would love to vote for. But, even if he does run, I don’t know if he could get through the current field of losers the GOP is touting.

I don’t think he wants the job. He sounds like he’s perfectly happy where he is, out of the limelight.

223 Decider  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:01:59am

Stay classy GOP.

224 blueraven  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:02:01am

Randy Neugebauer R-TX admits shouting babykiller at Stupak.

225 bratwurst  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:02:04am

re: #105 CyanSnowHawk

Your friends are too small a sample to treat statistically. You should know that.

Naturally…just make sure to point that out to the next person opposed to this bill who says “nobody I know has trouble getting health care” too.

226 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:02:17am

re: #216 Obdicut

Isn’t he a Socon?

No.

227 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:02:58am

re: #213 Silvergirl

Poor, poor choice of words. Whether they’re universally accepted as dominating in an argument or not, you chose them, and you’re a misogynist on permanent ignore.

Because no other television network screams “respect for women” like Fox News. Hahahahaahahahahahahahahaha.

228 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:03:09am

re: #218 Rightwingconspirator

I don’t like the phrase; I’m objecting to Cordell being tarred with the worst possible interpretation of the phrase. I don’t think it’s a good thing to say either and I don’t think it should be repeated. I just don’t think Cordell is Manson-esque.

229 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:03:09am

re: #207 jamesfirecat

I thought it was SDF, Self Defense Force, but my info on Japan’s military mostly comes from Monster Movies and Excel Saga…

LOL! I love it! Nope, it was the JDA, now the Defense Ministry. But you’re not actually incorrect, as it was sometimes referred to as the SDF or JSF. So you have heard that term.

230 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:03:10am

re: #222 RogueOne

I don’t think he wants the job. He sounds like he’s perfectly happy where he is, out of the limelight.

I would vote for Mitch..A man of Character and a real grown up..
You don’t see that every day in politics

231 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:03:11am

re: #189 Cineaste

Also - wasn’t Japan prohibited from building an offensive capability for decades after WWII?

They still are.

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:03:12am

re: #69 albusteve

if you can call it that, yes…where are all the doctors, anesthesiologists, specialists, PAs and NPs gonna come from?…overseas?…just don’t get sick

So, basically, we’ve only maintained our high level of healthcare in the United States by excluding people from coverage? Is that the idea? Because I have to say, I’m slightly bothered by that.

233 Cineaste  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:03:17am

re: #224 blueraven

Randy Neugebauer R-TX admits shouting babykiller at Stupak.

He’s from Texas so he probably doesn’t know this term but I’ll yell it anyway:

“SCHMUCK”

234 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:03:26am

re: #224 blueraven

Randy Neugebauer R-TX admits shouting babykiller at Stupak.

A Texan? Color me shocked.

235 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:03:43am

re: #224 blueraven

Randy Neugebauer R-TX admits shouting babykiller at Stupak.

Good for him owning up to it, now I bet I can expect to hear him say how his emotions got the best of him and he’s sorry…

And while he waits I’ll just try to download this stupid Bioshock 2 patch I need to be able to save my game is and is about 200 MB long off a server that is blocked by my schools internet set up…

Let see which happens first!

236 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:04:03am

re: #228 Obdicut

I don’t like the phrase; I’m objecting to Cordell being tarred with the worst possible interpretation of the phrase. I don’t think it’s a good thing to say either and I don’t think it should be repeated. I just don’t think Cordell is Manson-esque.

If anything I would prefer being likened to Hannibal Lecter, seeing as my handle is derived from one of his films…

237 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:04:39am

re: #179 Cineaste

This is a myth.

Big hospitals actually quite like Medicare vs. private insurance. While Medicare might pay $90 for a procedure that the private insurers offer $120 for the way Medicare works is they send you a check for $90 in 30 days. Period. No debates, no haggling and no hassling.

The private insurers hold all their bills until the end of the year. Then they bundle them all together and say to the hospitals: “listen, this is a lot of money. Cut us a deal.” The hospitals then spend several months, with their lawyers and account teams, negotiating a final price for everything. Eventually the private insurers pay, but it’s probably only $100, not the $120 they were billed. And it took a year and all the cost & man-hours of negotiating. In the end, they would have rather had $90 a year earlier without any expenses.

The other thing that happens is that Blue Cross & Blue Shield have a scam running between the states. If you are in Blue Cross in Maryland and have a procedure done in New York, Maryland’s Blue Cross pays Empire Blue Cross (New York’s) but Empire’s doesn’t pay the hospital. The hospital then comes after you for the bills and you have to show them that you paid and that your insurer paid. Then the hospital has to fight with Empire Blue Cross who does the same “hold & negotiate” strategy. There is currently a set of hospitals in Long Island that have banded together and filed suit against Empire Blue Cross for this.

I do believe that you are one spinning the myth here. It is a known and long running problem that Doctors are capping the number of Medicare patients they see.
From 2008.
Incentives to cap the number of Medicare patients. It’s about a third of the way down the page.
Dig the headline on this one.

238 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:05:18am

There was actually a big deal in Japan when they sent over a force to Iraq to aid in security and rebuilding as to whether it violated their constitution.

239 Uninformed Opinion  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:05:21am

/Happy America ruining, freedom killing, tax raising, job destroying healthcare.


maybe now i can get my teeth worked on.

240 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:06:01am

re: #226 RogueOne

Really? Here’s him taking some shots at atheists:

centerforinquiry.net

Using the same tired old “Atheism leads to brutality” argument.

241 Soap_Man  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:06:18am

re: #216 Obdicut

Isn’t he a Socon?

Yeah, but he basically ignores it. I have never even heard him bring it up. He cares as much about social issues as Obama cares about gun control. As in: he believes in it, but doesn’t give it very much priority.

Also, keep in mind that he turned down a speaking role at CPAC. That earns points in my book.

242 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:06:56am

re: #140 HoosierHoops

You people? You people? Who are you calling you people?
/Tropic Thunder

Who are you calling you people?

243 blueraven  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:06:58am

re: #224 blueraven

Randy Neugebauer R-TX admits shouting babykiller at Stupak.

Evidently he is a birther too. Shocka!

twitter.com

244 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:07:07am

re: #147 Silvergirl

Over the top.

maybe “Dr.” cordell is a proctologist …… it would explain a few things ….

245 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:07:33am

re: #236 drcordell

If anything I would prefer being likened to Hannibal Lecter, seeing as my handle is derived from one of his films…

Oh thank God.. I thought you were a real Doctor…I couldn’t get my head around that…
/whew!

246 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:08:03am

re: #232 SanFranciscoZionist

So, basically, we’ve only maintained our high level of healthcare in the United States by excluding people from coverage? Is that the idea? Because I have to say, I’m slightly bothered by that.

And the people we have excluded are essentially those who just don’t fit into a specific category. Extremely poor, without a job and on welfare? Congratulations you get healthcare! Retired, with no retirement savings and living off of Social Security? Congratulations, you get healthcare! A veteran, public sector employee or elected official? Congratulations, you get healthcare!

Worker with a family and two jobs, but not offered an employer-based insurance plan? Sorry, you make too much money! No healthcare for you! College graduate who can’t afford both student loan debt and health insurance with an entry-level job? You’re 25 and too old for your parents insurance, no health care for you!

247 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:08:24am

Alright, back.

So now we need to do the following.

1. What is the current unemployment rate? 9.7%?
2. What is the REAL unemployment rate? 17% approximately.

Employment = productivity.

*Don’s prognosticators hat*

1. I see at least a 12 - 14% unemployment rate coming quickly.
2. I see a 22 - 25% REAL unemployment rate paralleling that.

The (D)’s own anything and above an unemployment rate of 8%, and above the REAL rate of at least 15%. I am holding Obama and Biden to the 8% mark since that’s the rhetoric they spouted with El Stimuloso and most economists agree that the ‘REAL’ rate is almost 2 times that of the unemployment rate.

I hope I am wrong, if not, it will get super ugly super fast in all aspects of life.

248 Olsonist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:09:16am

re: #129 albusteve

which has nothing to do with the original post, that doctors are receiving less and less in medicare reimbursement…if med students don’t know that, they should

Factually wrong. Primary care reimbursements go up. Specialist reimbursements go down.

249 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:09:31am

re: #244 _RememberTonyC

maybe “Dr.” cordell is a proctologist … it would explain a few things …

Good news Tony, I have finally located your head!

250 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:10:02am

re: #248 Olsonist

Factually wrong. Primary care reimbursements go up. Specialist reimbursements go down.

Get your facts and logic the hell out of here. This is no place for empirical data.

251 Uninformed Opinion  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:10:11am

re: #248 Olsonist

Factually wrong. Primary care reimbursements go up. Specialist reimbursements go down.

expect many cardiologists to downsize their yachts.

252 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:10:17am

re: #240 Obdicut

Really? Here’s him taking some shots at atheists:

[Link: www.centerforinquiry.net…]

Using the same tired old “Atheism leads to brutality” argument.

I take shots at my fellow atheists all the time. I’m also a believer that the only thing that keeps a lot of people from acting like idiots is a firm belief in a god and the possibility of hell. Does that make me a so-con?

253 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:10:19am

re: #224 blueraven

Randy Neugebauer R-TX admits shouting babykiller at Stupak.

Did he provide any possible justification for doing so?

254 KingKenrod  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:10:39am

re: #224 blueraven

Randy Neugebauer R-TX admits shouting babykiller at Stupak.

It would be nice if the parties would start kicking jackasses like this out of their caucuses and not let them run for re-election under their banner.

255 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:11:43am

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

Did he provide any possible justification for doing so?

“Last night was the climax of weeks and months of debate on a health care bill that my constituents fear and do not support,” Neugebauer said in a statement. “In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase ‘it’s a baby killer’ in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership. While I remain heartbroken over the passage of this bill and the tragic consequences it will have for the unborn, I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct reference to Congressman Stupak himself.

“I have apologized to Mr. Stupak and also apologize to my colleagues for the manner in which I expressed my disappointment about the bill. The House Chamber is a place of decorum and respect. The timing and tone of my comment last night was inappropriate.”

256 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:12:36am

re: #249 drcordell

Good news Tony, I have finally located your head!

I do believe that’s the first ‘funny’ I have seen you make…wow. I will actually give you an ‘untaxed…for now’ upding.

257 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:12:47am

re: #249 drcordell

Good news Tony, I have finally located your head!


don’t quit your day job, doc. standup comedy is a bad career move for you …

258 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:13:07am

re: #255 drcordell

“Last night was the climax of weeks and months of debate on a health care bill that my constituents fear and do not support,” Neugebauer said in a statement. “In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase ‘it’s a baby killer’ in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership. While I remain heartbroken over the passage of this bill and the tragic consequences it will have for the unborn, I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct reference to Congressman Stupak himself.

“I have apologized to Mr. Stupak and also apologize to my colleagues for the manner in which I expressed my disappointment about the bill. The House Chamber is a place of decorum and respect. The timing and tone of my comment last night was inappropriate.”

What tragic consequences can this possible have for the unborn? The Hyde Amendment is still in effect.

259 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:13:14am

re: #247 Oh no…Sand People!

Interesting question about the real unemployment rate. Here are the BLS categories. Note that the “official” unemployment rate is covered under U3:

U1: Percentage of labor force unemployed 15 weeks or longer.
U2: Percentage of labor force who lost jobs or completed temporary work.
U3: Official unemployment rate per ILO definition.
U4: U3 + “discouraged workers”, or those who have stopped looking for work because current economic conditions make them believe that no work is available for them.
U5: U4 + other “marginally attached workers”, or “loosely attached workers”, or those who “would like” and are able to work, but have not looked for work recently.
U6: U5 + Part time workers who want to work full time, but cannot due to economic reasons (underemployment).

So, real unemployment would probably fall under U6

Source

260 Uninformed Opinion  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:13:35am

re: #258 SanFranciscoZionist

What tragic consequences can this possible have for the unborn? The Hyde Amendment is still in effect.

Sekrit babykiller effects.

261 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:13:45am

re: #241 Soap_Man

He’s getting along well enough with Socons to get an endorsement as a ‘pro-life’ guy.

mymanmitch.com

Legislation signed into law by Governor Daniels includes:

- requiring that any woman considering abortion be given the option of viewing an ultrasound her baby or to hear the baby’s heartbeat (2005)

- banning attempts to clone human beings (2005)

- establishing an umbilical cord blood bank to advance life-affirming stem cell research using cord blood instead of killing human embryos (2008)

All of those are crappy pieces of legislation, all of them are Socon in origin.

262 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:14:26am

re: #224 blueraven

Randy Neugebauer R-TX admits shouting babykiller at Stupak.

Holy guacamole! Neugebauer is my Congress-critter (19th District). He is normally a somewhat invisible type, noted for his inaccessability compared to his predecessor, Larry Combest.

Larry, also a Republican, set the standard for constituent access. I got a personalized response literally every time I called his office or wrote to them. He probably didn’t write all these himself, but he signed them and they all addressed my concerns specifically, none of them were form letters. Larry would also do his best to see you in person on the sole condition that you were registered to vote in the district. Neugebauer’s office has never responded to any of my letters or calls and I have never met him in person.

263 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:14:47am

re: #252 RogueOne

I take shots at my fellow atheists all the time. I’m also a believer that the only thing that keeps a lot of people from acting like idiots is a firm belief in a god and the possibility of hell. Does that make me a so-con?

I think it means you haven’t really thought the whole ‘what stops people from acting like idiots’ thing.

Would you say that atheism leads to brutality?

264 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:14:52am

re: #255 drcordell

“Last night was the climax of weeks and months of debate on a health care bill that my constituents fear and do not support,” Neugebauer said in a statement. “In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase ‘it’s a baby killer’ in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership. While I remain heartbroken over the passage of this bill and the tragic consequences it will have for the unborn, I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct reference to Congressman Stupak himself.

“I have apologized to Mr. Stupak and also apologize to my colleagues for the manner in which I expressed my disappointment about the bill. The House Chamber is a place of decorum and respect. The timing and tone of my comment last night was inappropriate.”

I’m confused, though. I thought when he said this, they had just agreed that there would be NO federal funding for abortions? Did I not read that right? (Not that it makes me happy, which it doesn’t.)

265 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:14:53am

re: #261 Obdicut

He’s getting along well enough with Socons to get an endorsement as a ‘pro-life’ guy.

[Link: www.mymanmitch.com…]

All of those are crappy pieces of legislation, all of them are Socon in origin.

Huh, for reference what makes the last one a crappy idea? That’s a talking point/idea I haven’t heard before so I’d love to hear what’s wrong with it….

266 Donna Ballard  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:15:42am

You know I actually thought my headache had gone away, but after just the last few moments of reading LGF I feel it coming back. Later all, and please try to Keep Laughing!

267 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:16:08am

re: #259 subsailor68

Interesting question about the real unemployment rate. Here are the BLS categories. Note that the “official” unemployment rate is covered under U3:

U1: Percentage of labor force unemployed 15 weeks or longer.
U2: Percentage of labor force who lost jobs or completed temporary work.
U3: Official unemployment rate per ILO definition.
U4: U3 + “discouraged workers”, or those who have stopped looking for work because current economic conditions make them believe that no work is available for them.
U5: U4 + other “marginally attached workers”, or “loosely attached workers”, or those who “would like” and are able to work, but have not looked for work recently.
U6: U5 + Part time workers who want to work full time, but cannot due to economic reasons (underemployment).

So, real unemployment would probably fall under U6

Source

the “official” unemployment rate is significantly higher than what they are telling us…but the Gov’t just shrunk the pie by removing off the map many businesses that closed their doors. It is still above 10% if they stuck by the older, as in 2 months ago, unemployment accounting practices.

268 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:16:13am

re: #192 drcordell

You understand exactly what I meant. Which is most relevant to the U.S. economy today, the tax rate in 1899, or the tax rate in 1979? You’re completely deflecting away from the topic at hand here. Tax rates from 1913 until the early 80’s were at 70%+ for the highest bracket. And we did just fine. Explain why that wouldn’t be the case today.

How could I know what you meant when what you said was not what you meant? I could make that assumption, but that way lies chaos.

Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
Correlation does not imply causation.

By your argument, prohibition could be blamed for the great depression. After all, the crash came only 9 years after prohibition started, and 4 years before prohibition ended, and we recovered some time after prohibition ended.

Nice to see that you are restricting your argument to the relevant time period. It’s good to see a student improve with a little guidance.

269 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:16:19am

re: #258 SanFranciscoZionist

What tragic consequences can this possible have for the unborn? The Hyde Amendment is still in effect.

I think he means future generations of unborn voters who will look back at this moment in history and wonder who the idiots were that so violently opposed a bill that forced health insurance companies to actually insure everyone.

270 Soap_Man  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:16:57am

re: #261 Obdicut

He’s getting along well enough with Socons to get an endorsement as a ‘pro-life’ guy.

[Link: www.mymanmitch.com…]

All of those are crappy pieces of legislation, all of them are Socon in origin.

I agree with you on the first (although it says “option” not “required”) and third, by how is banning attempts to clone human beings “crappy legislation”?

271 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:17:15am

re: #266 Dragon_Lady

You know I actually thought my headache had gone away, but after just the last few moments of reading LGF I feel it coming back. Later all, and please try to Keep Laughing!

Be well…You bring joy here

272 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:17:39am

re: #265 jamesfirecat

A) Cord blood is not the same as the cells from the zygotes.

B) There is no purpose for such a law except to pretend that we somehow hold that zygotes are special

C) Since fertility clinics routinely trash thousands upon thousands of zygotes, it’s a completely dishonest piece of legislation.

273 Mark Pennington  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:17:39am

I wonder why Michelle Malkin deleted this entry today?

It’s all conservative talk radio’s fault

274 Donna Ballard  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:17:58am

re: #271 HoosierHoops

Be well…You bring joy here

(((HH)))

275 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:17:59am

re: #263 Obdicut

I think it means you haven’t really thought the whole ‘what stops people from acting like idiots’ thing.

Would you say that atheism leads to brutality?

Yes I would. I would prefer that all other members of this planet, besides me of course, truly believed in a hell.

276 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:18:30am

re: #267 Oh no…Sand People!

the “official” unemployment rate is significantly higher than what they are telling us…but the Gov’t just shrunk the pie by removing off the map many businesses that closed their doors. It is still above 10% if they stuck by the older, as in 2 months ago, unemployment accounting practices.

Yep, and think of how that number keeps rising when you add U4, U5, and U6. I’d really like to know what the numbers in those three categories actually are - but we don’t even seem to be able to get an accurate U3, as you note.

277 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:18:31am

re: #270 Soap_Man

I agree with you on the first (although it says “option” not “required”) and third, by how is banning attempts to clone human beings “crappy legislation”?

Probably because its a waste of the people’s time and money to work on such silly legislation.

I think too many people don’t realize that a clone would be your identical twin not your double who magically has all your memories and is the same age you are, thus allowing him/her to kill you and take your place without anyone realizing it….

278 Uninformed Opinion  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:19:02am

re: #272 Obdicut

A) Cord blood is not the same as the cells from the zygotes.

B) There is no purpose for such a law except to pretend that we somehow hold that zygotes are special

C) Since fertility clinics routinely trash thousands upon thousands of zygotes, it’s a completely dishonest piece of legislation.

have you noticed the large amount of Israeli stem cells that have not cleared the current process?

279 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:19:16am

re: #264 marjoriemoon

I’m confused, though. I thought when he said this, they had just agreed that there would be NO federal funding for abortions? Did I not read that right? (Not that it makes me happy, which it doesn’t.)

There will be no federal funding of abortions, unless something slipped through last night I missed. No amount of wailing and screaming ‘baby-killer’ is going to change that.

Objecting to this bill on pro-life grounds means you’re either lying, or you’ve been lied to.

280 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:19:22am

re: #273 beekiller

I wonder why Michelle Malkin deleted this entry today?

It’s all conservative talk radio’s fault

I bet Rush came down on her like a ton of… well him…

(Too Mean?)

281 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:19:26am

Well, time to assist the ONSP jr, with his learning to ride a bike…which is soon to be taxed as well.

/

282 Lateralis  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:19:38am

re: #92 drcordell

And I can’t wait for the Republicans to try and gin up outrage to repeal the provisions of this bill. Where to start?

Repeal the clause that prevents insurance companies from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions?

Repeal the clause that allows children to stay on their parents insurance coverage until they are 26?

Repeal the clause that makes the requirements for policy rescissions and premium increases much stricter?

What happened to buying major medical insurance when you are in 20’s. You don’t need full coverage as a male in your 20’s.

283 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:19:45am

re: #268 CyanSnowHawk

How could I know what you meant when what you said was not what you meant? I could make that assumption, but that way lies chaos.

Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
Correlation does not imply causation.

By your argument, prohibition could be blamed for the great depression. After all, the crash came only 9 years after prohibition started, and 4 years before prohibition ended, and we recovered some time after prohibition ended.

Nice to see that you are restricting your argument to the relevant time period. It’s good to see a student improve with a little guidance.

You are the one trying to make the argument that raising taxes is death to the economy. Not me. There is a whole raft of empirical data to support the statement that a 70% tax bracket keeps the economy functioning just fine. Yes, the business cycle was still in effect and there were ups and downs. But you simply can’t make the argument that the U.S. economy didn’t experience phenomenal growth from 1913 to 1980.

You are the one who should be showing me how the 33% top tax bracket has done wonders for the economy since 2001. I’ll be waiting with baited breath…

284 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:20:44am

re: #275 RogueOne

Yes I would. I would prefer that all other members of this planet, besides me of course, truly believed in a hell.

Looking at the hideous things done by people who truly believe in hell, I don’t quite follow you.

285 Soap_Man  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:21:06am

re: #277 jamesfirecat

Probably because its a waste of the people’s time and money to work on such silly legislation.

I think too many people don’t realize that a clone would be your identical twin not your double who magically has all your memories and is the same age you are, thus allowing him/her to kill you and take your place without anyone realizing it…

No way man. That shit should be illegal.

286 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:21:19am

re: #270 Soap_Man

It’s reflexively asinine anti-science regulation. There’s no point to it. Scientists aren’t anywhere close to being able to reproductive clone human beings in any realistic way, but the phraseology of such bills almost always— and I would be shocked to the hilt if this was different— interferes with far more than just reproductive cloning, like therapeutic cloning.

And after a brief bit of research, I’m right:

2005 Senate Enrolled Act No. 268

Prohibits reproductive and therapeutic cloning; allows for the revocation of a hospital’s license involved in cloning; specifies that public funds may not be used for cloning; prohibits the sale of a human ovum, zygote, embryo or fetus;

287 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:21:52am

re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist

There will be no federal funding of abortions, unless something slipped through last night I missed. No amount of wailing and screaming ‘baby-killer’ is going to change that.

Objecting to this bill on pro-life grounds means you’re either lying, or you’ve been lied to.

That’s what’s confusing me. Shouldn’t he be shouting BABY SAVER?

I mean, not that Republicans are just contrary for the sake of being contrary, because we know the party of NO isn’t like that at all.

288 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:22:10am

Victor Davis Hanson jumps the shark.

Obama Has Crossed the Rubicon

Expect the health care formula to be followed by similar strategies for blanket amnesty, cap and trade, and expansions of the government takeover of cars, banks, student loans, and energy…

…The Race/Class/Gender Cult: This federal caring creed trumps all religion. We will hear thousands of homophobic, racist, sexist anecdotes (but not those from a Ruth Ginsberg, or Harry Reid, or Joe Biden) that remind us why the government must enforce diversity set-asides and affirmative actions, and fund new sociological studies proving why group X hates group Y, and why government bureau Z is fighting X on behalf of Y for all our benefit. We are in perpetual war with perpetual ologies and –isms and we need far more Van Joneses to win them!…

289 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:22:20am

re: #283 drcordell

The top bracket was 35% from 2001 onwards. Down from 39.6%. Just ignore that the rest of the brackets also declined - and that it meant that everyone had more money, not just the rich.

After all, the lowest tax bracket went from 15% to 10% under the Bush cuts. Or do they not count?

290 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:22:47am

re: #280 jamesfirecat

I bet Rush came down on her like a ton of… well him…

(Too Mean?)

In general I try not to be mean about people’s size or lack thereof.

But this is Rush. He’ll attack anyone about anything, so I don’t make a habit of defending him.

291 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:23:03am

re: #275 RogueOne

Yes I would. I would prefer that all other members of this planet, besides me of course, truly believed in a hell.

That’s pretty brutal.

292 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:23:12am

re: #167 Lidane

So you have to go out and have fun at someone else’s expense?

I drive really slow
in the ultra-fast lane
While people behind me
Are goin’ insane.

293 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:23:43am

re: #282 Lateralis

What happened to buying major medical insurance when you are in 20’s. You don’t need full coverage as a male in your 20’s.

Probably fear of not having it when your pre-existing condition pops up in your thirties.

294 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:23:53am

re: #292 Guanxi88

I drive really slow
in the ultra-fast lane
While people behind me
Are goin’ insane.

Sometimes I park in handicapped spaces,
Watch handicapped people
Make handicapped faces!

295 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:23:53am

re: #263 Obdicut

I think it means you haven’t really thought the whole ‘what stops people from acting like idiots’ thing.

Would you say that atheism leads to brutality?

Fyodor Dostoevsky had a splendidly double-edged line in one of his books. “Without God, everything is possible.” The history of Russia in the subsequent century was appalling proof of one of those edges.

296 reidr  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:23:57am

re: #232 SanFranciscoZionist

So, basically, we’ve only maintained our high level of healthcare in the United States by excluding people from coverage? Is that the idea? Because I have to say, I’m slightly bothered by that.

That’s always bothered me, too. When people complain that there will be longer waiting lines or reduced access to health care, I can’t help but hear, “FYIGM!” I want to followup with, “So you have no problem with millions of people visiting ERs as a last resort, going bankrupt due to serious illness/injury/disease, etc. so you don’t have to wait? Kind of callous, no?” Quite the disregard for others.

297 bratwurst  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:23:57am

re: #273 beekiller

I wonder why Michelle Malkin deleted this entry today?

It’s all conservative talk radio’s fault

Undoubtedly a plant by leftists to seed dissension in the ranks.
/

298 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:25:11am

re: #275 RogueOne

Sigh. Oh well. I’d note that the belief in heaven and hell is what motivates a lot of people to act really terribly towards their fellow human beings in this life, as well. I don’t see any point in saying things like “atheism leads to brutality”. It’s a simplistic, asinine, and untrue statement that serves only to raise a division between people of faith and people without faith.

299 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:25:16am

re: #277 jamesfirecat

Probably because its a waste of the people’s time and money to work on such silly legislation.

I think too many people don’t realize that a clone would be your identical twin not your double who magically has all your memories and is the same age you are, thus allowing him/her to kill you and take your place without anyone realizing it…

A few years ago, I saw some kind of fluff story on the alleged possibility of cloning Ramses the Great. They went out on the street and asked the masses their opinions. One person after another said things about how startled he would be in the modern world, and one even made an impromptu speech, complete with Rousseau references, about how unfair it would be to take a man from that environment and put him into present-day society. I kept thinking WTF? What do these people think cloning is anyway?

300 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:25:26am

re: #283 drcordell

You are the one trying to make the argument that raising taxes is death to the economy. Not me. There is a whole raft of empirical data to support the statement that a 70% tax bracket keeps the economy functioning just fine. Yes, the business cycle was still in effect and there were ups and downs. But you simply can’t make the argument that the U.S. economy didn’t experience phenomenal growth from 1913 to 1980.

You are the one who should be showing me how the 33% top tax bracket has done wonders for the economy since 2001. I’ll be waiting with baited breath…

Take a look at these charts and see if you see a big jump starting around 1980. Wonder what could have been the cause?
marktaw.com

The problem is easy, with the increase of funds came the increase in spending which in turn meant an increase in the tax rates. The only way to keep government spending under control is to limit the amount of money they have to spend.

301 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:25:29am

re: #294 jamesfirecat

Sometimes I park in handicapped spaces,
Watch handicapped people
Make handicapped faces!

I use public toilets
And piss on the seats
I walk around in the summertime
Sayin’ “How about this heat?”

302 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:26:50am

re: #284 SanFranciscoZionist

Looking at the hideous things done by people who truly believe in hell, I don’t quite follow you.

Those pale in comparison with the horrific crimes of actual atheists. I’m only saying that people who really believe in hell tend to behave better, that’s all. I don’t think all atheists are evil, most of them are, but I’m not so we can’t all be bad.

303 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:27:11am

re: #295 The Sanity Inspector

Fyodor Dostoevsky had a splendidly double-edged line in one of his books. “Without God, everything is possible.” The history of Russia in the subsequent century was appalling proof of one of those edges.

Aaah, they managed to do enough harm WITH God.

304 dmon  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:27:34am

re: #246 drcordell

I have always thought the arguement “If we allow everyone to have access to health care the rest of us will have to wait” is similar to arguing “If the poor people didn’t get food stamps the line would be shorter at the grocery store.”

305 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:27:39am

re: #302 RogueOne

Those pale in comparison with the horrific crimes of actual atheists. I’m only saying that people who really believe in hell tend to behave better, that’s all. I don’t think all atheists are evil, most of them are, but I’m not so we can’t all be bad.

I think they need to believe that they could go to Hell as well. People have done some pretty horrific things to try and get into heaven….

306 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:27:41am

re: #299 Shiplord Kirel

A few years ago, I saw some kind of fluff story on the alleged possibility of cloning Ramses the Great. They went out on the street and asked the masses their opinions. One person after another said things about how startled he would be in the modern world, and one even made an impromptu speech, complete with Rousseau references, about how unfair it would be to take a man from that environment and put him into present-day society. I kept thinking WTF? What do these people think cloning is anyway?

Somehow, the idea that cloning a person would result in the complete duplication of all memories of the person is a popular misconception.

307 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:27:58am

re: #302 RogueOne

Those pale in comparison with the horrific crimes of actual atheists. I’m only saying that people who really believe in hell tend to behave better, that’s all. I don’t think all atheists are evil, most of them are, but I’m not so we can’t all be bad.

Could you clarify that please? You’re saying most atheists are evil?

308 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:28:56am

re: #291 wrenchwench

That’s pretty brutal.

I know, I was j/k….mostly.

309 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:29:03am

re: #302 RogueOne

I don’t think all atheists are evil, most of them are

Downding for the bolded part. How can you even know how many atheists there are, let alone whether they are evil?

310 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:29:47am

re: #295 The Sanity Inspector

I’m sorry, but how do you make the connection that it was the lack of god that led to those things being possible? The Aztecs, Egyptians, Mayans all found it simplicity itself to engage in mass slaughter and genocide because of religious backing.

I’m really unsure why Stalins democides and other travesties are often blamed primarily under atheism, or any credibility is given to the thought that if only they’d remained religious it would have prevented these things. Hitler found it perfectly easy to use a bizarre pseudo-Christian mystical bunch of claptrap to back up his genocides. Why would religion have interfered with Stalin?

311 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:29:53am

re: #296 reidr

That’s always bothered me, too. When people complain that there will be longer waiting lines or reduced access to health care, I can’t help but hear, “FYIGM!” I want to followup with, “So you have no problem with millions of people visiting ERs as a last resort, going bankrupt due to serious illness/injury/disease, etc. so you don’t have to wait? Kind of callous, no?” Quite the disregard for others.

The Republican party doesn’t like to pay for other people. They’re the first to scream, “Don’t take away my Medicare,” but they are also the first to scream “Let’s get rid of welfare.” It’s ok when your taxes go to MY benefit, but not to YOURS.

The way they’ve behaved through this whole thing is not just disgusting, it’s embarrassing. We’re the world’s super power and yet a huge portion of us can’t get into the 21st century. I got news for them. We will push past them and over them, if need be, and we proved that last night. It’s not the best reform in the world, but I’m hoping it continues to get better.

312 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:30:05am

re: #300 RogueOne

Take a look at these charts and see if you see a big jump starting around 1980. Wonder what could have been the cause?
[Link: www.marktaw.com…]

The problem is easy, with the increase of funds came the increase in spending which in turn meant an increase in the tax rates. The only way to keep government spending under control is to limit the amount of money they have to spend.

Hi Rogue! Just a small point, but I think you meant to write “revenues” rather than rates. Government can set tax rates, but they have little control over tax revenues, as people can (and sometimes do) modify their behavior based on the rates. That’s one of the reasons we sometimes see a decrease in revenues as a result in an increase in rates. People tend (not always I grant) to make different economic decisions.

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:30:15am

re: #299 Shiplord Kirel

A few years ago, I saw some kind of fluff story on the alleged possibility of cloning Ramses the Great. They went out on the street and asked the masses their opinions. One person after another said things about how startled he would be in the modern world, and one even made an impromptu speech, complete with Rousseau references, about how unfair it would be to take a man from that environment and put him into present-day society. I kept thinking WTF? What do these people think cloning is anyway?

OK, that’s plain weird.

Of course, you’ve got those folks who are willing to pay bazillions to have dead pets cloned. I keep wanting to say “Damn it, the animal you loved is not coming back. I know how that hurts. But honor his/her memory by getting a kitten or puppy from the SPCA and giving it love, not by spending a fortune on a genetic copy.”

314 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:30:18am

re: #302 RogueOne

Most atheists are evil? What the fuck?

315 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:30:32am

re: #304 dmon

I have always thought the arguement “If we allow everyone to have access to health care the rest of us will have to wait” is similar to arguing “If the poor people didn’t get food stamps the line would be shorter at the grocery store.”

Welcome, hatchling.

316 garhighway  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:30:47am

re: #295 The Sanity Inspector

Fyodor Dostoevsky had a splendidly double-edged line in one of his books. “Without God, everything is possible.” The history of Russia in the subsequent century was appalling proof of one of those edges.

While Germany, on the other hand…

317 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:31:46am

re: #309 wrenchwench

Downding for the bolded part. How can you even know how many atheists there are, let alone whether they are evil?

I said it was a joke. Should I have added “present company excluded, of course”?

318 reidr  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:31:51am

re: #258 SanFranciscoZionist

What tragic consequences can this possible have for the unborn? The Hyde Amendment is still in effect.

The fear-mongering continues as he uses his constituents’ fear as justification. Wonderful.

319 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:32:07am

re: #302 RogueOne

Those pale in comparison with the horrific crimes of actual atheists. I’m only saying that people who really believe in hell tend to behave better, that’s all. I don’t think all atheists are evil, most of them are, but I’m not so we can’t all be bad.

Hell is for children.

Youtube Video

320 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:33:45am

re: #302 RogueOne

Those pale in comparison with the horrific crimes of actual atheists. I’m only saying that people who really believe in hell tend to behave better, that’s all. I don’t think all atheists are evil, most of them are, but I’m not so we can’t all be bad.

Jews don’t believe in Hell either. I don’t think Buddhists or Hindus do either. Actually, it’s pretty much a Christian thing, yes?

Although my gpa said he knew Hell existed because he lived with my gma :p

321 dmon  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:34:03am

re: #315 wrenchwench

Not exactly a hatchling, have been a member for several months….read the site almost everyday….but first post

Kinda nice to find a site where the posters are somewhat sane

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:34:08am

re: #302 RogueOne

Those pale in comparison with the horrific crimes of actual atheists. I’m only saying that people who really believe in hell tend to behave better, that’s all. I don’t think all atheists are evil, most of them are, but I’m not so we can’t all be bad.

I think you’re completely mistaken. The only way you can argue that the crimes of atheists are worse is to use numbers, but I would argue that technology is to blame, not ideology.

And on what grounds do you say that ‘most atheists’ are evil?

323 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:34:29am

Maaan, some of you atheists are a little touchy. It’s all fun and games when making fun of all catholics being pedo’s and all Muslims being one step away from strapping on a bomb belt but you get all uppity when someone makes fun of atheists.

324 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:34:40am

re: #306 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Somehow, the idea that cloning a person would result in the complete duplication of all memories of the person is a popular misconception.

In David Gerrold’s SF novel, The Man Who Folded Himself, the protagonist uses a time machine to constantly encounter duplicates of himself in alternate time streams. Some of these duplicates differ from the original by only a few minutes of experience, and some in fact differ only by being female. The inevitable happens, taking up a large portion of the narrative, and leading one critic to remark that “the ‘F word’ in the title should really be something else.

325 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:34:48am

I think if history has proven anything, its that humanity has been willing to latch onto just about any justification imaginable when it comes to committing atrocities in the name of the common good. Atheism, Theism, Left or Right wing, Racism, Nationalsim, all have their fair share of horror stories.

326 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:34:55am

re: #320 marjoriemoon

Jews don’t believe in Hell either. I don’t think Buddhists or Hindus do either. Actually, it’s pretty much a Christian thing, yes?

Although my gpa said he knew Hell existed because he lived with my gma :p

Buddhists believe in Samsara, though they also believe that unless you’ve gained enlightenment you’re already there…. (as best I can remember)

327 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:35:22am

re: #323 RogueOne

Maaan, some of you atheists are a little touchy. It’s all fun and games when making fun of all catholics being pedo’s and all Muslims being one step away from strapping on a bomb belt but you get all uppity when someone makes fun of atheists.

I think it was the “most atheists are evil” comment.

328 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:35:27am

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

I said, for the 3rd or 4th time, It was a joke. Relax, I don’t think you’re evil. Obdicut obviously is but you seem ok.

329 ShaunP  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:35:48am

re: #323 RogueOne

Maaan, some of you atheists are a little touchy. It’s all fun and games when making fun of all catholics being pedo’s and all Muslims being one step away from strapping on a bomb belt but you get all uppity when someone makes fun of atheists.

Personally, I’m just as offended by those blanket statements…

I get that you were joking, BTW. I think it struck a cord because there are sooooo many people that believe that and freely state as much…

330 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:36:34am

re: #323 RogueOne

Maaan, some of you atheists are a little touchy. It’s all fun and games when making fun of all catholics being pedo’s and all Muslims being one step away from strapping on a bomb belt but you get all uppity when someone makes fun of atheists.

What, did you decide to keep digging a hole?

Since when has anyone made “fun of all catholics being pedo’s” here at LGF?

Could you provide some examples?

331 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:36:38am

re: #323 RogueOne

Maaan, some of you atheists are a little touchy. It’s all fun and games when making fun of all catholics being pedo’s and all Muslims being one step away from strapping on a bomb belt but you get all uppity when someone makes fun of atheists.

“If religions didn’t want me to laugh at them then they shouldn’t have such silly beliefs “

What is silly about not believing in things that can’t be proven in any scientific way at all?

If there’s nothing silly about it then maybe it isn’t such a fertile ground for comedy as something that’s like it but is silly….

332 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:36:39am

re: #329 ShaunP

Personally, I’m just as offended by those blanket statements…

I get that you were joking, BTW. I think it struck a cord because there are sooo many people that believe that and freely state as much…

Out of all the troll-bombs I’ve tossed I never expected that one to hit so many nerves.

333 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:36:48am

re: #323 RogueOne

Maaan, some of you atheists are a little touchy. It’s all fun and games when making fun of all catholics being pedo’s and all Muslims being one step away from strapping on a bomb belt but you get all uppity when someone makes fun of atheists.

Lizards making those “all Catholics” and “all Muslims” references are also showered with ridicule, or haven’t you noticed that we don’t tolerate that shit around here?

334 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:37:00am

re: #323 RogueOne

Maaan, some of you atheists are a little touchy. It’s all fun and games when making fun of all catholics being pedo’s and all Muslims being one step away from strapping on a bomb belt but you get all uppity when someone makes fun of atheists.

Saying most of ‘em are evil just doesn’t make me laugh, even when you include yourself among them. And the “joking, mostly” post came kinda late in the conversation.

335 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:37:01am

re: #323 RogueOne

Saying that most atheists are evil isn’t really making fun of them.

Claiming fear of hell keeps people in line— without noticing that many religions don’t really have a hell— is also silly.

Hell, if you take Hinduism, most sects believe you get reincarnated with no real knowledge of your past self. It’s your duty to advance yourself karmically, but you don’t actually remember the past you. They have a very different sense of ‘self’, and you can’t really say that motivation for reward in the hereafter for them is part of the deal; it’s really for somebody else.

336 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:37:08am

re: #320 marjoriemoon

Jews don’t believe in Hell either.

No but there is the amorphous concept of Gehenna

337 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:37:12am

re: #323 RogueOne

Maaan, some of you atheists are a little touchy. It’s all fun and games when making fun of all catholics being pedo’s and all Muslims being one step away from strapping on a bomb belt but you get all uppity when someone makes fun of atheists.

I’m not an atheist.

338 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:37:34am

re: #326 jamesfirecat

Buddhists believe in Samsara, though they also believe that unless you’ve gained enlightenment you’re already there… (as best I can remember)

Jews do believe in a judgment or an assessment of your life. From there, I’m not terribly clear how it all works LOL and have no real desire to find out in the immediate future.

339 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:38:07am

re: #332 RogueOne

Out of all the troll-bombs I’ve tossed I never expected that one to hit so many nerves.

Do you realize that many people say that and mean it every day? And that the Mitch Daniels quote I was talking about basically implies that atheists are either evil or in the process of becoming evil?

What is the point of tossing out a ‘troll bomb’?

340 garhighway  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:38:29am

re: #302 RogueOne

I’m only saying that people who really believe in hell tend to behave better, that’s all.

Talk about an unprovable assertion.

341 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:38:42am

re: #337 SanFranciscoZionist

I didn’t think you were, the Zionist nick kind of gives it away. Probably why I think you’re ok.

342 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:39:05am

re: #328 RogueOne

I said, for the 3rd or 4th time, It was a joke. Relax, I don’t think you’re evil. Obdicut obviously is but you seem ok.

Well then, nevermind!

I do hope people know when I’m being sarcastic, because I like to leave it to my writing without putting a “/” everywhere, but I bet it doesn’t come across always. Ah well.

343 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:39:23am

re: #340 garhighway

Talk about an unprovable assertion.

And quite frankly I’d argue that the people who believe in hell are also the least likely to believe they’ll actually end up there.

344 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:39:24am

re: #324 Shiplord Kirel

In David Gerrold’s SF novel, The Man Who Folded Himself, the protagonist uses a time machine to constantly encounter duplicates of himself in alternate time streams. Some of these duplicates differ from the original by only a few minutes of experience, and some in fact differ only by being female. The inevitable happens, taking up a large portion of the narrative, and leading one critic to remark that “the ‘F word’ in the title should really be something else.

A high school English teacher of mine read that novel to us in her Sci-Fi class. She did skip over some of the explicit parts. I spent years looking for it and finally found it. It is one of my favorites.

345 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:39:30am

re: #309 wrenchwench

Downding for the bolded part. How can you even know how many atheists there are, let alone whether they are evil?

Some people are made of plastic,
Some people are made of wood,
And some people are up to no good.

346 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:39:56am

re: #320 marjoriemoon

This Buddhist believes in hell. Hell here on earth where the violent hold sway.

347 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:39:57am

re: #341 RogueOne

Actually, most of the original Zionists were non-religious, and there are plenty of secular Zionists today, as well. Hell, if all it takes to be a Zionist is believing in Israel’s right to exist and right to defend itself against attack, then I’m also a San Francisco Zionist.

348 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:40:12am

BOMBSHELL (and not quite off topic)

James Randi comes out of the closet (Phil Plait comments)

James Randi — one of the founders of the modern skeptical movement, a leading rationalist, thinker, and fighter of antiscience — has made a big announcement: he’s gay.

A lot of us already knew this, although I don’t know how widespread the knowledge is. I imagine this will surprise some folks, but not others. Some may wonder why he waited this long… but he makes it clear why in both his announcement on Swift as well as in his interview with JREF President (and openly gay man) D.J. Grothe on his podcast For Good Reason. D.J.’s interview with Randi is excellent; they discuss how this molded Randi’s life, his thoughts on gay marriage, his frequent mentioning of Sophia Loren (which made me smile), and how this affects (or more accurately, does not affect) the JREF’s mission.

I found out about the announcement right before a friend came to pick me up, and I told him about it. We chatted about it for a moment, and then he asked me, “What difference will this make?”

349 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:40:22am

re: #341 RogueOne

I didn’t think you were, the Zionist nick kind of gives it away. Probably why I think you’re ok.

Ah, there’s plenty of Zionist atheists in the world…

350 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:40:26am

re: #339 Obdicut

Do you realize that many people say that and mean it every day? And that the Mitch Daniels quote I was talking about basically implies that atheists are either evil or in the process of becoming evil?

What is the point of tossing out a ‘troll bomb’?

Because I was tired of talking about health care. We’re going to be arguing this one for the next 4 years, I thought I’d mix in a little atheists are evil. Who knew my fellow atheists were so thin-skinned.

351 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:40:35am

re: #302 RogueOne

Those pale in comparison with the horrific crimes of actual atheists. I’m only saying that people who really believe in hell tend to behave better, that’s all. I don’t think all atheists are evil, most of them are, but I’m not so we can’t all be bad.

ROTFLMFAO!

Dude, you just made my friggin’ day!

352 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:40:43am

Well, if I were a Calvinist, I would have to point out that most of us doomed to a fiery hell no matter what we did in life and that God saves who he chooses by predetermination.

Have I ever mention I think Calvin was full of shit?

353 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:40:49am

Anywho.

The DJI is up:

10,801.31
+59.33

And oil is up:

BRENT CRUDE FUTR (USD/bbl.) 80.410
WTI CRUDE FUTURE (USD/bbl.) 81.250

354 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:42:36am

re: #351 JasonA

ROTFLMFAO!

Dude, you just made my friggin’ day!

You’re welcome. I would have thought my….

I don’t think all atheists are evil, most of them are, but I’m not so we can’t all be bad.

would have made it obvious I was being sarcastic.

355 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:42:41am

re: #348 Shiplord Kirel

Is he going to change his name to The Fabulous Randi?

356 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:42:58am

re: #320 marjoriemoon

Jews don’t believe in Hell either. I don’t think Buddhists or Hindus do either. Actually, it’s pretty much a Christian thing, yes?

Although my gpa said he knew Hell existed because he lived with my gma :p

Hell in Islam really kicks ass.

357 drcordell  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:42:58am

re: #353 Gus 802

Anywho.

The DJI is up:

10,801.31
+59.33

And oil is up:

BRENT CRUDE FUTR (USD/bbl.) 80.410
WTI CRUDE FUTURE (USD/bbl.) 81.250

I have a feeling the markets as a whole will react well to the passage of health care reform. More health insurance means more health care consumers and ultimately more health care spending. Hopefully this spending will be more efficient in terms of per capita expenditures, but either way there is now a greater number of Americans able to purchase health care related products.

358 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:43:06am

re: #346 Rightwingconspirator

This Buddhist believes in hell. Hell here on earth where the violent hold sway.

Detroit?

359 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:43:33am

re: #345 Spare O’Lake

Some people are made of plastic,
Some people are made of wood,
And some people are up to no good.

Thanks! Great song, and I love the Watts Towers. I wish I’d seen that documentary.

360 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:44:15am

re: #252 RogueOne

I take shots at my fellow atheists all the time. I’m also a believer that the only thing that keeps a lot of people from acting like idiots is a firm belief in a god and the possibility of hell. Does that make me a so-con?

No, sadly just an incredible cynic.

361 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:44:34am

re: #347 Obdicut

Actually, most of the original Zionists were non-religious, and there are plenty of secular Zionists today, as well. Hell, if all it takes to be a Zionist is believing in Israel’s right to exist and right to defend itself against attack, then I’m also a San Francisco Zionist.

The original Zionists were heavy-duty socialists too.

362 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:44:37am

re: #336 Radicchio ad Absurdum

No but there is the amorphous concept of Gehenna

Well “hell” in Judaism is not being accepted into the book of life or not being a part of the light of God which is what heaven actually is. At least, that’s my rudimentary understanding. I think this is kind of what Gehenna is also, yes?

363 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:44:41am

re: #354 RogueOne

would have made it obvious I was being sarcastic.

I dunno. I take a look at the rest of the thread and it doesn’t seem that you pulled the sarcasm off very well. Just sayin’.

364 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:44:47am

re: #348 Shiplord Kirel

BOMBSHELL (and not quite off topic)

James Randi comes out of the closet (Phil Plait comments)

It’s hard to pick a better time. All the right wingers are busy lighting their torches and sharpening their pitchforks over health care so won’t be likely to notice. Should keep the pundit backlash to a minimum.

365 webevintage  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:45:30am

re: #255 drcordell

“Last night was the climax of weeks and months of debate on a health care bill that my constituents fear and do not support,” Neugebauer said in a statement. “In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase ‘it’s a baby killer’ in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership. While I remain heartbroken over the passage of this bill and the tragic consequences it will have for the unborn, I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct reference to Congressman Stupak himself.”

I am glad to see he apologized.
He only meant to call Democrats Baby Killers, not specifically Bart whom he has lots of respect for.
/

Btw, I’m lining up for my gov’t paid for abortion now.
I’ve been waiting forever for them to pay for it.
/

Michelle Bachman said that abortions will go up 30% because of the HC bill and another Repub said mothers and babies will die.
I get sick of their abortion shit and really sick of the pro-life movement treating women as if they are children.

366 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:45:51am

re: #354 RogueOne

would have made it obvious I was being sarcastic.

I’m very much evil, thankyouverymuch.
*Hurls Force Lightning at RogueOne*

367 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:47:34am

re: #356 Spare O’Lake

Hell in Islam really kicks ass.

That’s kind alike Daunte’s inferno, isn’t it?

368 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:48:22am

re: #357 drcordell

I have a feeling the markets as a whole will react well to the passage of health care reform. More health insurance means more health care consumers and ultimately more health care spending. Hopefully this spending will be more efficient in terms of per capita expenditures, but either way there is now a greater number of Americans able to purchase health care related products.

True. Although there still more work to be done in DC:

Health care reform now faces Senate challenge

We’ll see what happens. However, given the market data I can comfortably say that they don’t see this as “the end of the world” as the right wing pundits would have their readers believe.

369 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:49:28am

re: #363 JasonA

I dunno. I take a look at the rest of the thread and it doesn’t seem that you pulled the sarcasm off very well. Just sayin’.

I’m trying to give steve a run for bottom comment of the day. I won but I’m not going to make the list. gegenkritik keeps hogging the bottom 10.

370 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:49:31am

re: #263 Obdicut

I think it means you haven’t really thought the whole ‘what stops people from acting like idiots’ thing.

Would you say that atheism leads to brutality?

I think what he is saying is not that atheism leads to brutality but that removal of religious restraint allows brutality. It’s a very cynical view that I disagree with in the severest terms.

His/her argument does match up with many religious fundamentalists.

371 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:51:00am

Speaking of hell, I have to go use a machine with Windows ME installed on it now.

See you all later.

372 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:51:23am

re: #352 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, if I were a Calvinist, I would have to point out that most of us doomed to a fiery hell no matter what we did in life and that God saves who he chooses by predetermination.

Have I ever mention I think Calvin was full of shit?

I have trouble with Calvin.

373 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:51:30am

re: #369 RogueOne

I’m trying to give steve a run for bottom comment of the day. I won but I’m not going to make the list. gegenkritik keeps hogging the bottom 10.

Ah, well then, dis an actual religion. Not a lot of us atheists here.
/
;)

374 webevintage  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:51:32am

Reminder.
Here is a handy HCR subsidy calculator:
healthreform.kff.org

375 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:51:46am

Randy Neugebauer Revealed As ‘Baby Killer’ Shouter: Texas Republican Apologizes

“In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase ‘it’s a baby killer’ in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership,”

Pfft. That the best spin you got? Whatevers.

376 blueraven  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:52:16am

re: #341 RogueOne

I didn’t think you were, the Zionist nick kind of gives it away. Probably why I think you’re ok.

I think SFZ is more than ok, but it has nothing to do with her nic. Nice way to judge, my brother.

377 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:53:16am

re: #361 Spare O’Lake

The original Zionists were heavy-duty socialists too.

Damn skippy. Odd, how people who rant and rave about ‘European-style socialism’ are perfectly happy to defend Israel.

378 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:53:42am

re: #362 marjoriemoon

Well “hell” in Judaism is not being accepted into the book of life or not being a part of the light of God which is what heaven actually is. At least, that’s my rudimentary understanding. I think this is kind of what Gehenna is also, yes?


To be honest, I am not really sure. I think your definition fits as well as any. My understanding is that it is the farthest thing from the “Olam Ha ba” the World to come, but not necessarily a physical place (although it is tied to the Hinnom Valley outside Jerusalem from where (I think) the “scape goat” was released into the Judean Desert (or given a long walk off a short cliff)).

I am sure there are more educated individuals here who could offer a more accurate definition.

379 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:53:57am

re: #377 SanFranciscoZionist

Damn skippy. Odd, how people who rant and rave about ‘European-style socialism’ are perfectly happy to defend Israel.

Doesn’t the modern state of Israel have government run healthcare?

380 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:54:24am

re: #362 marjoriemoon

Well “hell” in Judaism is not being accepted into the book of life or not being a part of the light of God which is what heaven actually is. At least, that’s my rudimentary understanding. I think this is kind of what Gehenna is also, yes?

Judaism does not have any official doctrine on an afterlife. As a result, some of us have believed practically everything over the centuries. ;)

381 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:54:34am

re: #310 Obdicut

I’m sorry, but how do you make the connection that it was the lack of god that led to those things being possible? The Aztecs, Egyptians, Mayans all found it simplicity itself to engage in mass slaughter and genocide because of religious backing.

I’m really unsure why Stalins democides and other travesties are often blamed primarily under atheism, or any credibility is given to the thought that if only they’d remained religious it would have prevented these things. Hitler found it perfectly easy to use a bizarre pseudo-Christian mystical bunch of claptrap to back up his genocides. Why would religion have interfered with Stalin?

Because, unlike with Nazism, atheism became one of the tenets of Communism. Different paths, same results, if you prefer. The lack of God certainly helped pave the way to the Soviet tyranny. Smashing the intermediate institutions of society, like the church, the family, etc., left the people naked before the unchecked power of the State. The State viewed them as bereft of any God-given dignity, instead seeing them and their lives as raw material, to be molded, processed, and wasted at will.

And, since we’re such a diverse lot here nowadays and therefore must explain our basic presumptions to each other, I’ll say that I fear nothing of this sort from present atheistic company.

382 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:54:44am

re: #375 JasonA

Randy Neugebauer Revealed As ‘Baby Killer’ Shouter: Texas Republican Apologizes

Pfft. That the best spin you got? Whatevers.

In the heat and emotion of the debate? If Neugebauer was honest, he’d say that he was just enjoying acting like a fucking idiot because the rest of his fraternity was doing the same. I wonder if Joe “You lie!” Wilson high-fived him when he shouted it.

383 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:54:56am

re: #302 RogueOne

Those pale in comparison with the horrific crimes of actual atheists. I’m only saying that people who really believe in hell tend to behave better, that’s all. I don’t think all atheists are evil, most of them are, but I’m not so we can’t all be bad.

I hope that’s a tongue in your cheek.

384 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:55:01am

re: #376 blueraven

I think SFZ is more than ok, but it has nothing to do with her nic. Nice way to judge, my brother.

I’m fairly certain SFZ recognized I was joking. I’d hardly call that “judging”.

385 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:55:19am

re: #379 jamesfirecat

Doesn’t the modern state of Israel have government run healthcare?

Smaller population, lower rates of population growth; it’s comparing apples to pomegranates

386 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:55:30am

re: #377 SanFranciscoZionist

Damn skippy. Odd, how people who rant and rave about ‘European-style socialism’ are perfectly happy to defend Israel.

The Kibbutz.

387 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:55:32am

re: #367 marjoriemoon

That’s kind alike Daunte’s inferno, isn’t it?

First Onion headline when they started up again after 9/11: Hijackers Surprised To Find Selves In Hell.

388 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:55:45am

re: #383 b_sharp

I hope that’s a tongue in your cheek.

Or someone might have been really happy to see him.

389 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:55:48am

re: #383 b_sharp

I hope that’s a tongue in your cheek.

Keep scrolling through./

390 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:55:49am

re: #367 marjoriemoon

That’s kind alike Daunte’s inferno, isn’t it?

In Christianity and in Islam, true believers who repent can usually go to heaven no matter if they were evil sinners throughout their lives.
This is the truly brilliant marketing strategy which some say accounts for the relative popularity of these religions.
It’s called having your cake and eating it too.

391 webevintage  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:56:28am

Damn, will this woman never go away?

“It really reflects a lack of experience of President Obama’s, which — it was warned about during the campaign that Candidate Obama didn’t have executive experience, he hasn’t been an administrator or a manager of anything. So to jump into this huge — hugely important responsible position as President of the United States without the experience to know how to work across party lines, and to know how to administer and to manage a team to get policy through that makes sense, that’s supported by the people — it’s a bit, um, it’s a bit over his head, if you will. And, uh, things aren’t going well, and the public is really voicing their frustration.” Sarah Palin on Fox News Channel last night

BTW, anyone know when the reality show starts?

392 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:56:31am

re: #382 darthstar

In the heat and emotion of the debate? If Neugebauer was honest, he’d say that he was just enjoying acting like a fucking idiot because the rest of his fraternity was doing the same. I wonder if Joe “You lie!” Wilson high-fived him when he shouted it.

Hm. Maybe we should be happy to see a politician not doubling-down on their shenanigans? I’m gonna give that some thought.

393 avanti  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:56:47am

“Baby killer” commenter revealed:

link.

394 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:57:44am

re: #385 Guanxi88

Smaller population, lower rates of population growth; it’s comparing apples to pomegranates

I’m just saying that they evidently can make government run healthcare work without becoming communazis….

395 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:58:05am

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

First Onion headline when they started up again after 9/11: Hijackers Surprised To Find Selves In Hell.

Also soon after was God Angrily Clarifies ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill’ or something like that. Good stuff.

396 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:58:21am

Why is Drudge running a stock ticker today? I guess he was expecting the market to bottom out.

397 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:58:40am

re: #379 jamesfirecat

Doesn’t the modern state of Israel have government run healthcare?

There’s a govt. run health care system, as well as private practices, is what I know. Not much more than that, although I have heard hilarious stories from people trying to navigate the Israeli health-care system with inadequate Hebrew.

398 ShaunP  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:58:44am

re: #396 Killgore Trout

Why is Drudge running a stock ticker today? I guess he was expecting the market to bottom out.

Whoops…

399 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:58:44am

re: #379 jamesfirecat

Doesn’t the modern state of Israel have government run healthcare?

Oh yes, and a lot of other goodies too. Helps if you’re Jewish :) but you certainly don’t have to be.

The Kibbutz were a socialist project that ran fairly well for many, many years, but as Israel grew, and also the world, the kids didn’t want to stay on the Kibbutz. It was for a different time, I think and was good for that time, but all good things must end, I guess. Now there are few operational Kibbutz.

400 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:58:54am

That was fun while it lasted, who else can I piss off? Anyone want to hear my thoughts on Pagans or D&D players?

401 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:58:55am

re: #394 jamesfirecat

I’m just saying that they evidently can make government run healthcare work without becoming communazis…

Well, yeah; of course they can; lotsa folk can and have.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results; crops from one land often grow differently in an alien clime

402 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:59:02am

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

First Onion headline when they started up again after 9/11: Hijackers Surprised To Find Selves In Hell.

I remember that one…it was hilarious…

“I was told that these Americans were enemies of the one true religion, and that Heaven would be my reward for my noble sacrifice,” said Alomari, moments before his jaw was sheared away by faceless homunculi. “But now I am forced to suckle from the 16 poisoned leathern teats of Gophahmet, Whore of Betrayal, until I burst from an unwholesome engorgement of curdled bile. This must be some sort of terrible mistake.”

linky goodness

403 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:59:04am

re: #396 Killgore Trout

Why is Drudge running a stock ticker today? I guess he was expecting the market to bottom out.

Heh, Drudge…
:D

404 Olsonist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:59:11am

re: #381 The Sanity Inspector

That is a bit simplistic. When Stalin didn’t want churches competing for minds and hearts, he banned churches. When he was his troops to die for a cause during WWII, he revived the Orthodox Church as a kind of state religion.

405 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:59:26am

re: #396 Killgore Trout

Why is Drudge running a stock ticker today? I guess he was expecting the market to bottom out.

I thought he always ran one. I could be wrong though.

406 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:59:44am

re: #400 RogueOne

That was fun while it lasted, who else can I piss off? Anyone want to hear my thoughts on Pagans or D&D players?

Lol, as a D&D player, go for it!

:)

407 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 11:59:59am

re: #396 Killgore Trout

Why is Drudge running a stock ticker today? I guess he was expecting the market to bottom out.

I said in this mornings thread I figured it would go up, temporarily.

408 avanti  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:00:12pm

re: #396 Killgore Trout

Why is Drudge running a stock ticker today? I guess he was expecting the market to bottom out.

Yep, some of the right wing blogs were predicting a 200 point drop, up 57 at the moment.

409 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:00:55pm

re: #405 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought he always ran one. I could be wrong though.

Nah, usually only when something big is happening.

410 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:00:58pm

re: #371 Obdicut

Speaking of hell, I have to go use a machine with Windows ME installed on it now.

See you all later.

I’m sorry, I don’t believe that. No one has to use ME, and I was told all ME systems were destroyed in the purge of ‘07.

411 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:01:01pm

re: #406 Varek Raith

Lol, as a D&D player, go for it!

:)

Which edition? I certainly felt that 2d Edition was the Golden Age of D&D.

412 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:01:04pm

re: #380 SanFranciscoZionist

Judaism does not have any official doctrine on an afterlife. As a result, some of us have believed practically everything over the centuries. ;)

Actually, it does when you study Kabbalah, which I have not. The Satan is an angel who is actually the prosecutor during your “judgment” day. I’m not too clear beyond that.

413 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:01:17pm

re: #406 Varek Raith

Lol, as a D&D player, go for it!

:)

I set Walter off the very first day I was on with “damn dirty hippies”. Now I’ve found at least 3 soft spots. good times, good times.

414 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:01:31pm

re: #396 Killgore Trout

Why is Drudge running a stock ticker today? I guess he was expecting the market to bottom out.

I’m sure he was. So far, the market is not tumbling, boatloads of hysterical cardiologists are not fleeing the country, and cholera hasn’t broken out.

So far, so good.

415 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:01:49pm

re: #411 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Which edition? I certainly felt that 2d Edition was the Golden Age of D&D.

3.5. 4 sucks. 2 was probably the best.

416 Olsonist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:02:16pm

re: #412 marjoriemoon

I’m sure Madonna could fill in the details.

417 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:02:44pm

re: #416 Olsonist

I’m sure Madonna could fill in the details.

Lord spare us!

418 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:02:56pm

re: #408 avanti

Real panic out there, gold FELL $9
Heh.

419 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:03:09pm

re: #391 webevintage

Damn, will this woman never go away?

“It really reflects a lack of experience of President Obama’s, which — it was warned about during the campaign that Candidate Obama didn’t have executive experience, he hasn’t been an administrator or a manager of anything. So to jump into this huge — hugely important responsible position as President of the United States without the experience to know how to work across party lines, and to know how to administer and to manage a team to get policy through that makes sense, that’s supported by the people — it’s a bit, um, it’s a bit over his head, if you will. And, uh, things aren’t going well, and the public is really voicing their frustration.” Sarah Palin on Fox News Channel last night

BTW, anyone know when the reality show starts?

LOL “And… uh… wha… and… em…. uh…. and” and OBAMA is over his head!!!! LOL Gawd, I think I love this woman.

420 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:03:10pm

re: #415 Varek Raith

3.5. 4 sucks. 2 was probably the best.

You are correct.

421 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:03:16pm

re: #418 Rightwingconspirator

Real panic out there, gold FELL $9
Heh.

ZOMG!

422 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:03:23pm

re: #389 RogueOne

Keep scrolling through./

yah, I got it.

Beautiful POE.

423 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:03:34pm

re: #410 b_sharp

I’m sorry, I don’t believe that. No one has to use ME, and I was told all ME systems were destroyed in the purge of ‘07.

What a crap OS…Somebody had the brilliant idea to process 16 bit code with 32 bit Dll’s..Yea..That will work

424 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:03:59pm

re: #414 SanFranciscoZionist

So far, so good.


Keep your fingers crossed.

425 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:04:13pm

re: #415 Varek Raith

3.5. 4 sucks. 2 was probably the best.

3 was okay. The skills and multiclassing rules were certainly enjoyable, but the mechanics of the feats system meant a lot of the joy of roleplaying played a back seat to power-gaming. 2d editon was all about character development, not math.

426 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:04:22pm

re: #393 avanti

“Baby killer” commenter revealed:

link.

Everybody always mentions the baby killers, but we atheistic baby eaters hardly get any press.

427 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:04:27pm

re: #418 Rightwingconspirator

Real panic out there, gold FELL $9
Heh.

Gold’s been over-priced for ages; primarily because most commodities have been over-priced for ages.

428 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:04:31pm

re: #418 Rightwingconspirator

Real panic out there, gold FELL $9
Heh.

That’s just an effort to destroy Glenn Beck.

429 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:04:56pm

re: #414 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m sure he was. So far, the market is not tumbling, boatloads of hysterical cardiologists are not fleeing the country, and cholera hasn’t broken out.

So far, so good.

1500 cardiologists on a boat to Costa Rica. Once they get there they’ll get licensed by the socialist government there and hope the general strikes aren’t as bad as they say. Then, all 1500 of them will sit there and hope that Americans will fly down to Costa Rica for treatment. Maybe even get surgery there. I’m sure the hospitals in Costa Rica are top notch.

/

430 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:05:21pm

re: #408 avanti

Yep, some of the right wing blogs were predicting a 200 point drop, up 57 at the moment.

Actually, most of the market pages were anticipating an enormous drop this morning, based on futures trading more than 100 points down before the open. It wasn’t a particularly “right wing” reaction.

431 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:05:46pm

re: #425 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

3 was okay. The skills and multiclassing rules were certainly enjoyable, but the mechanics of the feats system meant a lot of the joy of roleplaying played a back seat to power-gaming. 2d editon was all about character development, not math.

Yep, when I’m a GM I go ballistic on the power gamers. Sigh, which means I don’t play as much. Ah, well.

432 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:06:26pm

re: #429 Gus 802

1500 cardiologists on a boat to Costa Rica. Once they get there they’ll get licensed by the socialist government there and hope the general strikes aren’t as bad as they say. Then, all 1500 of them will sit there and hope that Americans will fly down to Costa Rica for treatment. Maybe even get surgery there. I’m sure the hospitals in Costa Rica are top notch.

/

Hey, there’s worse places to go than Costa Rica; if I got to hang around somewhere or other in a fit of self-dramatization, it’d be on my short list

433 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:06:28pm

re: #428 darthstar
Headline
Glenn Beck appears on Cash For Gold…. indictment.
J/K darn it!

434 Radicchio ad Absurdum  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:07:02pm

re: #412 marjoriemoon

Actually, it does when you study Kabbalah, which I have not. The Satan is an angel who is actually the prosecutor during your “judgment” day. I’m not too clear beyond that.

I was actually surprised when I found “Satan” in the Chumash. I believe it was for the Parsha regarding giving of the 10 Commandments, probably in connection with the golden calf. If I remember correctly, I the word was defined as “the deceiver.” Too young to have studied Kabbalh myself so I have no idea what it says there. Maybe Madonna has some insights/

435 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:07:16pm

re: #427 Guanxi88

Gold’s been over-priced for ages; primarily because most commodities have been over-priced for ages.

Say it with me: “Bubble.”

It might be worth finding a gold-based fund or two to short. You’re correct - gold and many other commodities are extremely overpriced.

436 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:07:31pm

re: #434 Radicchio ad Absurdum

I was actually surprised when I found “Satan” in the Chumash. I believe it was for the Parsha regarding giving of the 10 Commandments, probably in connection with the golden calf. If I remember correctly, I the word was defined as “the deceiver.” Too young to have studied Kabbalh myself so I have no idea what it says there. Maybe Madonna has some insights/

Rosanne Barr is the expert on that area.

437 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:07:39pm

re: #404 Olsonist

That is a bit simplistic. When Stalin didn’t want churches competing for minds and hearts, he banned churches. When he was his troops to die for a cause during WWII, he revived the Orthodox Church as a kind of state religion.

Yes, it’s simplistic, it being a brief comment on a blog. ;) But you’re right, he did make the tactical decision to appeal to religion and The Motherland in his regime’s existential crisis of 1941-43. Religion is true for the believer, false for the philosopher, and useful for the ruler.

438 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:07:49pm

re: #432 Guanxi88

Hey, there’s worse places to go than Costa Rica; if I got to hang around somewhere or other in a fit of self-dramatization, it’d be on my short list

Sure it’s a nice place. I just think the fictionalized flight of the physicians is funny though within the context of Central America.

439 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:07:59pm

re: #430 SixDegrees

Actually, most of the market pages were anticipating an enormous drop this morning, based on futures trading more than 100 points down before the open. It wasn’t a particularly “right wing” reaction.

Fair enough, but I’m assuming the market pages weren’t planning to specially showcase it to prove a political point.

440 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:08:22pm

re: #432 Guanxi88

Hey, there’s worse places to go than Costa Rica; if I got to hang around somewhere or other in a fit of self-dramatization, it’d be on my short list

I hear they have beaches.

441 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:08:33pm

re: #419 marjoriemoon

LOL “And… uh… wha… and… em… uh… and” and OBAMA is over his head!!! LOL Gawd, I think I love this woman.

Unfortunately she is correct.

442 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:08:44pm

re: #438 Gus 802

Sure it’s a nice place. I just think the fictionalized flight of the physicians is funny though within the context of Central America.

There’s always Paraguay, which has the advantage that most folk can’t find it on a map.

443 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:08:49pm

re: #431 Varek Raith

Yep, when I’m a GM I go ballistic on the power gamers. Sigh, which means I don’t play as much. Ah, well.

I use D&D as a teaching aid. I GM my grandson so I can mix in a little ethical lesson with the blood and gore.

444 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:08:54pm

re: #430 SixDegrees

Actually, most of the market pages were anticipating an enormous drop this morning, based on futures trading more than 100 points down before the open. It wasn’t a particularly “right wing” reaction.

Hi Six! Reading your posts I can tell you’re a lot more market savvy than I am. I wasn’t really surprised that there wasn’t a tanking, because it seemed to me that although the House passed the bill, it still has a ways to go (Senate on reconciliation, etc.) so business and investment folks just went about their business. Any possibility that’s the case, or am I misreading things?

445 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:08:56pm

re: #431 Varek Raith

Yep, when I’m a GM I go ballistic on the power gamers. Sigh, which means I don’t play as much. Ah, well.

I just make sure the people who role play properly get a substantial bonus in XP for playing in character. Now as far as different gaming systems go, I would have to say Chaosiums % based system is one of the best, easiest systems to learn and run thru.

446 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:09:13pm

re: #408 avanti

Yep, some of the right wing blogs were predicting a 200 point drop, up 57 at the moment.

Markets don’t like uncertainty. And whether this will work out for long term good or ill, there’s a little less uncertainty this morning.

447 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:09:19pm

It has to be a good plan. The left loves it, the AMA loves it, Insurance companies love it, and even the evil pharma companies love it….what could go wrong?

Drug lobby applauds ‘reform’ passage


Last night, President Obama cheered the House passage of the health-care bill, and, as normal, claimed “We pushed back on the undue influence of special interests…. We proved that this government — a government of the people and by the people — still works for the people.” At the same time, the largest industry lobby in the country, also gave the House a standing O

washingtonexaminer.com

448 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:09:55pm

re: #436 Guanxi88

Rosanne Barr is the expert on that area.

Yes, but Roseanne Barr also believes that the Virgin Mary was a priestess of the Goddess in the Second Temple before it was destroyed, so I might double-, or even triple-check her religious notions.

449 Olsonist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:10:01pm

re: #437 The Sanity Inspector

Yeah, but I wouldn’t blame that on the philosopher.

450 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:10:03pm

re: #441 Spare O’Lake

Unfortunately she is correct.

Ha!

451 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:10:17pm

re: #430 SixDegrees

Actually, most of the market pages were anticipating an enormous drop this morning, based on futures trading more than 100 points down before the open. It wasn’t a particularly “right wing” reaction.

I don’t see why. This is a boon to the medical industry in this country. Short term their stocks are going to increase.

452 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:10:33pm

re: #445 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thanks I’ll look into that system. D&D is wearing thin on me… Too much munchkinism….

453 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:10:57pm

re: #438 Gus 802

Sure it’s a nice place. I just think the fictionalized flight of the physicians is funny though within the context of Central America.

I could see an SNL skit coming from this;

Refugee Jungle Doctors of Costa Rica

, with Rush Limbaugh in a Tarzan outfit, Anne Coulter as Jane, and a pet monkey named Alecbaldwin.

454 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:11:02pm

re: #452 Varek Raith

Thanks I’ll look into that system. D&D is wearing thin on me… Too much munchkinism…

Munchkinism!

455 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:11:15pm

re: #439 SanFranciscoZionist

Fair enough, but I’m assuming the market pages weren’t planning to specially showcase it to prove a political point.

Early this morning, the CNN futures page was headlined something like “Markets set to plunge on health care vote.”

456 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:11:41pm

re: #452 Varek Raith

Thanks I’ll look into that system. D&D is wearing thin on me… Too much munchkinism…

I take it you prefer the ‘wicked witch of the west’ism?

457 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:11:43pm

re: #448 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but Roseanne Barr also believes that the Virgin Mary was a priestess of the Goddess in the Second Temple before it was destroyed, so I might double-, or even triple-check her religious notions.

She’s of a more ecumenical sect, ‘tis true……. Still, their theology’s easy to keep straight; the whackier it is, the more at odds it is with EVERYTHING said by EVERYONE else, irrespective of sect, faction, or party, the greater the likelihood of its being in the catechism, as it were.

458 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:12:09pm

re: #453 shiplord kirel

, with Rush Limbaugh in a Tarzan outfit, Anne Coulter as Jane, and a pet monkey named Alecbaldwin.

They can all go Galt in…Costa Rica.

459 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:12:15pm

re: #453 shiplord kirel

, with Rush Limbaugh in a Tarzan outfit, Anne Coulter as Jane, and a pet monkey named Alecbaldwin.

It could be modeled after “Gilligan’s Island”.

460 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:12:52pm

Just for those who don’t know,

In gaming, a Munchkin is a player who plays what is intended to be a non-competitive game (usually a role-playing game) in an aggressively competitive manner. A munchkin seeks within the context of the game to amass the greatest power, score the most “kills,” and grab the most loot, no matter how deleterious their actions are to role-playing, the storyline, fairness, logic, or the other players’ fun. The term is used almost exclusively as a pejorative and frequently is used in reference to powergamers and to immature players in general.

:)

461 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:13:06pm

re: #390 Spare O’Lake

In Christianity and in Islam, true believers who repent can usually go to heaven no matter if they were evil sinners throughout their lives.
This is the truly brilliant marketing strategy which some say accounts for the relative popularity of these religions.
It’s called having your cake and eating it too.

hehe Well you can repent, but you have to physically change during your life, in Judaism anyway. You have to become a good person.

You know, I always think of King David in this scenario. I mean, his personal house was not in good order. Rather awful in many respects, yet he is regarded as one of our greatest scholars for what he did for his people, the country and the legacy he left behind. Not just the Temple, but his writings and his military prowess. I’m not sure I understand it all, but it’s fascinating to me.

462 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:13:07pm

re: #443 b_sharp

I use D&D as a teaching aid. I GM my grandson so I can mix in a little ethical lesson with the blood and gore.

And logic.

“Okay, while searching the deep woods, you come across a cabin. You see an old lady tending her garden.
“All right, I approach her and as I get close, I unlimber my battle axe and attack.”
“WHAT!?”
“Monsters have been raiding the village for weeks and we’re supposed to think this little old lady is just some lucky enough to have escaped their attention the whole time? Come on man.”
“…OK, roll for initiative.”

463 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:13:15pm

re: #447 RogueOne

It has to be a good plan. The left loves it, the AMA loves it, Insurance companies love it, and even the evil pharma companies love it…what could go wrong?

Drug lobby applauds ‘reform’ passage

Of course. The insurance and drug companies were in a win-win from day 1. If it didn’t pass, they could keep manipulating the market to their heart’s content. If it did pass, they’d get 31 million new subscribers. Lower prices, higher volume. Oh, woe is us!

I’ve never doubted that this bill wouldn’t hurt the insurance companies…lowering medical costs and insurance costs will cut into their profit temporarily, but in the long run, they’ll do fine. They just wanted to weaken the legislation as much as possible so they could profit the most from it.

464 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:13:29pm

re: #460 Varek Raith

Just for those who don’t know,


:)

There is also a GAME called Munchkin, which is great fun.

465 avanti  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:13:29pm

re: #418 Rightwingconspirator

Real panic out there, gold FELL $9
Heh.

BUY SEEDS !!!

466 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:14:26pm

re: #444 subsailor68

Hi Six! Reading your posts I can tell you’re a lot more market savvy than I am. I wasn’t really surprised that there wasn’t a tanking, because it seemed to me that although the House passed the bill, it still has a ways to go (Senate on reconciliation, etc.) so business and investment folks just went about their business. Any possibility that’s the case, or am I misreading things?

Don’t even think about calling me “market savvy.” But one thing the markets abhor is uncertainty; once the vote was over and done with, certainty - which the markets favor - returned. Despite a sharp drop at the open, likely caused by fear over how the (often irrational) market would react, the attitude, “Well, at least we now know what we’re dealing with” took hold.

Interestingly, most of the upward motion in early trading was in tech stocks. Not sure what that was about, or if it’s persisted.

467 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:14:42pm

re: #416 Olsonist

I’m sure Madonna could fill in the details.

hehe My mom’s been studying Kabbalah for maybe 20 years. Like the real stuff, not the red-bracelet-holy-water-Kabbalah-Made-For-Christians stuff :)

468 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:15:23pm

re: #441 Spare O’Lake

Unfortunately she is correct.

Not in a million years would she ever be correct.

469 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:15:47pm

re: #452 Varek Raith

Thanks I’ll look into that system. D&D is wearing thin on me… Too much munchkinism…

No XP and no going up in HP as you level. You gain experience in a given skill the more you use it, and the mere fact you are a seasoned adventurer doesn’t save you from the fact the low level thug armed with a shotgun got the drop on you.

470 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:15:51pm

re: #467 marjoriemoon

hehe My mom’s been studying Kabbalah for maybe 20 years. Like the real stuff, not the red-bracelet-holy-water-Kabbalah-Made-For-Christia ns stuff :)

I think I ate a kabbalah once. Didn’t much care for the sheep stomach though.

471 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:16:14pm

re: #466 SixDegrees

Don’t even think about calling me “market savvy.” But one thing the markets abhor is uncertainty; once the vote was over and done with, certainty - which the markets favor - returned. Despite a sharp drop at the open, likely caused by fear over how the (often irrational) market would react, the attitude, “Well, at least we now know what we’re dealing with” took hold.

Interestingly, most of the upward motion in early trading was in tech stocks. Not sure what that was about, or if it’s persisted.

Makes sense. Thanks!

472 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:16:36pm

re: #461 marjoriemoon

hehe Well you can repent, but you have to physically change during your life, in Judaism anyway. You have to become a good person.

You know, I always think of King David in this scenario. I mean, his personal house was not in good order. Rather awful in many respects, yet he is regarded as one of our greatest scholars for what he did for his people, the country and the legacy he left behind. Not just the Temple, but his writings and his military prowess. I’m not sure I understand it all, but it’s fascinating to me.

David was an enormously complicated man. Powerplays, eight wives, uncounted concubines, murders, rape and incest amongst the children, betrayal by various sons, his whole insane relationship to Saul’s family…

And yet he is remembered as a good king, a great warrior, and the author of the Psalms.

A very whole person. Totally unclassifiable.

473 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:16:45pm

America is neither left nor right but centrist

washingtonpost.com


It will surprise few to learn that the big picture often slips unnoticed past Washington’s window.

The tea party movement — organic, angry and thriving — is only the most recent to take insiders by surprise. Out yonder, among shuttered storefronts and leaner lifestyles, the tea party has been a predictable response to supersized government spending and aggressive hubris.

Another movement percolating right in front of our noses seems to be equally invisible to establishment eyes. Independents — neither right nor left but smack dab in the broad middle — today constitute 42 percent of the electorate, according to a recent CBS/New York Times poll.

Approximately 70 million strong, these are America’s new homeless class, people who are equally disgusted with both traditional parties and the special interests that control them. They’re all ages, sexes, races, ethnicities, though younger Americans are crowding the front rows. Of those born after 1977, 44 percent identify as independent.

Independents as a group outnumber either party, in other words. Yet, given the hyperpartisanship that began under George W. Bush — and has accelerated during President Obama’s first year, thanks in large part to the enabling mechanism of the Internet — one would think that America were divided into hard left and hard right.

If you’re not a centrist/independent, you’re a nutter. Sorry.

474 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:17:02pm

And have any gamers here not heard the story of the dread Gazebo monster?

475 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:17:37pm

re: #469 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No XP and no going up in HP as you level. You gain experience in a given skill the more you use it, and the mere fact you are a seasoned adventurer doesn’t save you from the fact the low level thug armed with a shotgun got the drop on you.

Reminds me of the Cthulu roleplaying game. Never had so much fun going insane.

476 Gus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:17:43pm

re: #465 avanti

BUY SEEDS !!!

And for the survivalist do-it-yourselfers don’t forget to get your very own Surgical Kit and Pack and stock up on your pharmaceuticals!

477 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:18:19pm

re: #453 shiplord kirel

, with Rush Limbaugh in a Tarzan outfit, Anne Coulter as Jane, and a pet monkey named Alecbaldwin.

Speaking of Coulter, the vice-President of a Canadian University she’s slated to speak at has told her to watch her mouth or else.

I would, however, like to inform you, or perhaps remind you, that our domestic laws, both provincial and federal, delineate freedom of expression (or “free speech”) in a manner that is somewhat different than the approach taken in the United States. I therefore encourage you to educate yourself, if need be, as to what is acceptable in Canada and to do so before your planned visit here. You will realize that Canadian law puts reasonable limits on the freedom of expression. For example, promoting hatred against any identifiable group would not only be considered inappropriate, but could in fact lead to criminal charges. Outside of the criminal realm, Canadian defamation laws also limit freedom of expression and may differ somewhat from those to which you are accustomed. I therefore ask you, while you are a guest on our campus, to weigh your words with respect and civility in mind.

478 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:18:23pm

re: #474 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hahahahaha! Classic.
XD

479 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:18:50pm

BBC Radio this morning made the interesting statement that the current law requiring hospital emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of their ability to pay was dropped in the HCR bill, potentially making things considerably worse for the many millions still left without any coverage under the new legislation.

I hadn’t heard anything about such a change. Anybody else?

480 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:19:09pm

re: #477 The Sanity Inspector

I hate Coulter, but I wouldn’t like to have to rewrite my material according to those standards.

481 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:19:27pm

re: #300 RogueOne

Take a look at these charts and see if you see a big jump starting around 1980. Wonder what could have been the cause?
[Link: www.marktaw.com…]

The problem is easy, with the increase of funds came the increase in spending which in turn meant an increase in the tax rates. The only way to keep government spending under control is to limit the amount of money they have to spend.

If you take Attila the Hun and give him modern technology, you’d have Attila the Hun with nukes.

482 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:19:31pm

re: #474 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


And have any gamers here not heard the story of the dread Gazebo monster?

All I know is playing Grand Thief Auto 4 everybody dies..
You know that old lady crossing the street on Crutches?
I run her over!
*wink*
/Die bitch grandma!
LOL

483 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:20:15pm

re: #479 SixDegrees

BBC Radio this morning made the interesting statement that the current law requiring hospital emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of their ability to pay was dropped in the HCR bill, potentially making things considerably worse for the many millions still left without any coverage under the new legislation.

I hadn’t heard anything about such a change. Anybody else?

No, I hadn’t heard that. Bad, if true. But if true, I can’t believe no one dug it up before.

484 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:20:19pm

re: #475 JasonA

Reminds me of the Cthulu roleplaying game. Never had so much fun going insane.

Chaosium publishes the Cthulhu game. They’ve expanded their rules to be a generic system for multiple genres.

485 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:20:27pm

re: #477 The Sanity Inspector

Speaking of Coulter, the vice-President of a Canadian University she’s slated to speak at has told her to watch her mouth or else.

With as much time as she spends with her head up her ass, it’s no surprise what her mouth is full of.

486 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:21:10pm

re: #481 Alouette

If you take Attila the Hun and give him modern technology, you’d have Attila the Hun with nukes.

My comment #481 was directed to Shiplord’s #299. Sorry for the mix up.

487 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:21:17pm

re: #419 marjoriemoon

LOL “And… uh… wha… and… em… uh… and” and OBAMA is over his head!!! LOL Gawd, I think I love this woman.

That’s an old journalistic trick: make people the reporter dislikes sound foolish by transcribing their speech hesitations verbatim.

488 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:21:34pm

re: #480 SanFranciscoZionist

I hate Coulter, but I wouldn’t like to have to rewrite my material according to those standards.

Inciting hate should be quite easy to steer clear of, unless you are a raving bigot.

489 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:21:47pm

re: #434 Radicchio ad Absurdum

I was actually surprised when I found “Satan” in the Chumash. I believe it was for the Parsha regarding giving of the 10 Commandments, probably in connection with the golden calf. If I remember correctly, I the word was defined as “the deceiver.” Too young to have studied Kabbalh myself so I have no idea what it says there. Maybe Madonna has some insights/

LOL I would be supportive of Madonna if she was bringing people to Judaism, but she’s not. She treats it as some kind of magic ritual. In fact, they spend $1000s for the Zohar and since it’s written in Hebrew, the faithful are told you don’t have to read it, just run your hand over it and you’ll absorb it. Well that’s Rabbi Berg and those folks out in L.A. who teach all the movie stars.

On the other hand, Madonna does go to Israel and performs, spends money, so that’s not a bad thing. I can’t hate her over it, but I’m disappointed.

490 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:22:00pm

re: #488 b_sharp

Inciting hate should be quite easy to steer clear of, unless you are a raving bigot.

That part’s OK.

491 ShaunP  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:22:23pm

re: #479 SixDegrees

BBC Radio this morning made the interesting statement that the current law requiring hospital emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of their ability to pay was dropped in the HCR bill, potentially making things considerably worse for the many millions still left without any coverage under the new legislation.

I hadn’t heard anything about such a change. Anybody else?

The EMTALA already requires that hospitals can’t deny care to those in need. No need for extraneous legislation; god forbid GOB reps had to read a bill that was any longer…

492 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:22:28pm

re: #488 b_sharp

Inciting hate should be quite easy to steer clear of, unless you are a raving bigot.

But then again, if she can’t incite hate, why are they inviting her at all?

493 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:22:34pm

re: #480 SanFranciscoZionist

I hate Coulter, but I wouldn’t like to have to rewrite my material according to those standards.

You wouldn’t have to. Coulter, on the other hand, uses the most inflammatory rhetoric she can because it sells books. Personally, I hope she finds it humiliating to be publicly told before a speech to behave like an adult.

494 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:23:33pm

re: #475 JasonA

Reminds me of the Cthulu roleplaying game. Never had so much fun going insane.

Plus, for some reason, all my professors in archeology and anthropology were noted international trap/skeet shooting champions, which explains why in addition to Latin, Ancient History, various other scholarly skills, I had the shotgun skill at 85%.

495 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:23:52pm

re: #493 darthstar

You wouldn’t have to. Coulter, on the other hand, uses the most inflammatory rhetoric she can because it sells books. Personally, I hope she finds it humiliating to be publicly told before a speech to behave like an adult.

Under penalty of law.

Yet ANOTHER reason why I’m glad to live here in the States.

496 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:25:25pm

re: #472 SanFranciscoZionist

David was an enormously complicated man. Powerplays, eight wives, uncounted concubines, murders, rape and incest amongst the children, betrayal by various sons, his whole insane relationship to Saul’s family…

And yet he is remembered as a good king, a great warrior, and the author of the Psalms.

A very whole person. Totally unclassifiable.

Oh yes, indeed. How it shakes out for me… the greatest good you can do (in God’s eyes) is to make a lasting, positive impact on as many people as possible.

497 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:25:43pm

re: #492 SanFranciscoZionist

But then again, if she can’t incite hate, why are they inviting her at all?

Just to measure her adam’s apple I suspect.

498 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:26:39pm

re: #497 b_sharp

Just to measure her adam’s apple I suspect.

I’ve about had it with the adam’s apple quips.

The lady has a grape stuck in her throat, all right?

499 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:27:24pm

re: #498 Guanxi88

I’ve about had it with the adam’s apple quips.

The lady has a grape stuck in her throat, all right?

I just want to feed Ann Coulter. I don’t like her, but no one should starve in America.

//

500 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:27:29pm

re: #487 The Sanity Inspector

That’s an old journalistic trick: make people the reporter dislikes sound foolish by transcribing their speech hesitations verbatim.

Have ya listened to her speak? You can’t understand any point she’s making. She talks just like that, bounces around from one thing to another. I mean, she may have some good ideas tucked away in there somewhere. I haven’t found any, but certainly she needs a speech class. Really. She can’t speak in front of an audience. Obama is worlds away from this woman.

501 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:27:31pm

re: #495 Guanxi88

Under penalty of law.

Yet ANOTHER reason why I’m glad to live here in the States.

Of all the things a human can say to another, avoiding comments intended to incite hate and violence is a very small task.

502 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:28:17pm
503 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:28:35pm

re: #501 b_sharp

Of all the things a human can say to another, avoiding comments intended to incite hate and violence is a very small task.

It is, and it is greatly complicated by the tendentious use of claims of incitement by the authority or the state and/or those acting on its behalf and/or with the intent of wielding that coercive apparatus as a means to silencing their enemies.

It shouldn’t be a crime to be an asshole.

504 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:28:40pm

re: #501 b_sharp

Of all the things a human can say to another, avoiding comments intended to incite hate and violence is a very small task.

That offends me. Luckily here in the states I can’t make a complaint to a federal official and have you dragged before a court.

505 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:28:41pm

re: #491 ShaunP

The EMTALA already requires that hospitals can’t deny care to those in need. No need for extraneous legislation; god forbid GOB reps had to read a bill that was any longer…

I’m familiar with EMTALA; the report indicated that it had been repealed, or perhaps weakened, by the new bill.

I was surprised to hear it, but BBC is usually pretty even handed when it comes to factual reporting.

They also expressed concern over the additional 30 million people who would be eligible for coverage, because there won’t be enough doctors to provide care for them in such a short amount of time, and there was no provision for boosting medical school enrollment. A separate bill to expand medical school capacity was thumpingly defeated last fall, apparently. So the feeling was that it will get harder for all to find doctors, and when found they will be more expensive thanks to short supply, a situation they expected to persist for many years due to both the length and relative narrowness of the doctor and medical professional supply pipeline.

506 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:28:42pm

re: #500 marjoriemoon

Have ya listened to her speak? You can’t understand any point she’s making. She talks just like that, bounces around from one thing to another. I mean, she may have some good ideas tucked away in there somewhere. I haven’t found any, but certainly she needs a speech class. Really. She can’t speak in front of an audience. Obama is worlds away from this woman.

Yes, Obama is definitely the superior orator, no question. Even he fum-fuhs away from a script, though.

507 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:29:01pm

re: #502 lawhawk

Google is pulling out of China...

GOOD! Strike one up for the good guys!

508 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:29:32pm

re: #507 RogueOne

And we should all block Baidu BTW.

509 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:29:59pm

re: #502 lawhawk

Google is pulling out of China...

Hmmm. Sort of. They just can’t quite bring themselves to walk away from all the dough that China represents, despite having to participate in evil to get at it.

510 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:30:00pm

re: #472 SanFranciscoZionist

David was an enormously complicated man. Powerplays, eight wives, uncounted concubines, murders, rape and incest amongst the children, betrayal by various sons, his whole insane relationship to Saul’s family…

And yet he is remembered as a good king, a great warrior, and the author of the Psalms.

A very whole person. Totally unclassifiable.

Imagine if he had missed Goliath with that slingshot…

511 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:30:18pm

re: #503 Guanxi88

It is, and it is greatly complicated by the tendentious use of claims of incitement by the authority or the state and/or those acting on its behalf and/or with the intent of wielding that coercive apparatus as a means to silencing their enemies.

It shouldn’t be a crime to be an asshole.

It might, however, be a reason not to pay a person to speak.

512 ShaunP  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:30:20pm

re: #505 SixDegrees

I was surprised to hear it, but BBC is usually pretty even handed when it comes to factual reporting…

Oh, I agree. I actually find the BBC to be one of the best news sites around. Let me see if I can dig up the details. Thanks for sharing…

513 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:30:36pm

re: #508 Rightwingconspirator

And we should all block Baidu BTW.

Heh, my hosts file already does!
:)

514 lostlakehiker  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:31:04pm

Now, why would he think it was necessary to tell them that?

Because it is?

But take a step back. Part of being an adult involves thinking ahead. This bill is an exercise in nonadulthood. Income is counted twice, expenses are wished away, and nobody expects it to work the way it’s been advertised.

So although the Democrats win in the matter of decorum, when it comes to the actual voting, their record is one of improvidence and wishful thinking.

515 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:31:20pm

re: #511 SanFranciscoZionist

It might, however, be a reason not to pay a person to speak.


Well, I’ll agree with that side of it; enough assholes get my cash already without me having people go to seek them out on my behalf.

Eh, I could take or leave Coulter, and pity the Canadians; they can’t be trusted, it seems, with harsh ideas or words.

516 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:31:25pm

re: #487 The Sanity Inspector

That’s an old journalistic trick: make people the reporter dislikes sound foolish by transcribing their speech hesitations verbatim.

The media has done a wonderful job of cleaning up Palin’s comments to make her sound more intelligent than she actually is…here’s a sample I diaried about at the Great Orange Satan a while back (note the filtering of her text as well as the grammatical correction) This was from her response to President Obama’s Nobel acceptance speech:

Palin’s exact words:

I liked what he said, in fact, I thumbed through my book quickly this morning to say ‘Wow, that that sounded really familiar’ because I talked in my book too about the fallen nature of man and why war is necessary at times and history’s lessons when it comes to knowing what it is that we engage in warfare and a couple of the other things he said were I thought, wow, those were a ni-nice, a broad message so broad I just wrote about those and a lot of Americans right now are getting to read off of my take on when war is necessary.

How she was “quoted”

“I liked what he said,” Palin told us in a phone interview. “I talked too in my book about the fallen nature of man and why war is necessary at times.”

I just loved the fact that she had to “thumb through” her book to see what she had said about the fallen nature of man.

517 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:31:38pm

re: #504 RogueOne

That offends me. Luckily here in the states I can’t make a complaint to a federal official and have you dragged before a court.

For a statement like that, nor can you be dragged in front of a court here. Don’t go chasing after a straw man.

518 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:33:04pm

re: #516 darthstar

I just loved the fact that she had to “thumb through” her book to see what she had said about the fallen nature of man.

I must agree. Cleaning up speech is polite, but in Palin’s case, it covers for her rambling convolutions to a degree that’s almost dishonest.

519 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:33:44pm

re: #507 RogueOne

GOOD! Strike one up for the good guys!

China! Tear down this wall!
We should never back track with information…
China needs a thousand Google-like websites…Overwhelm them with information..After all
The Truth shall set you free…

520 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:33:50pm

re: #505 SixDegrees

BBC is usually pretty even handed when it comes to factual reporting.

Their podcasts are stellar, if you’ve never heard them. I subscribe to their Global News one which is updated twice daily. Between the Beeb and the few online newspapers I read, I actually stay informed. It’s nice.

521 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:35:07pm

re: #517 b_sharp

For a statement like that, nor can you be dragged in front of a court here. Don’t go chasing after a straw man.

Wasn’t much of a strawman. You were inciting hatred against my people, assholes. I shouldn’t have to live in fear of reprisals from people like you just because I like to speak my mind.

522 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:35:25pm

re: #443 b_sharp

I use D&D as a teaching aid. I GM my grandson so I can mix in a little ethical lesson with the blood and gore.

Always prefered Traveller for that since it doesn’t have anything but natural consequences to the characters activities. It’s especially good in the New Era timeline where the events can be made character scaled.

Still a good use for your gaming :)

I have a friend who played a rogue who’s alignment changed from CG at the full moon to CE at the new moon, varying every day according to the phase of the moon. Interesting to GM her… really confused the bleep out of our Paladin who finally decided she was sick & his responsibility to “cure”.

William

523 blueraven  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:35:42pm

re: #473 RogueOne

America is neither left nor right but centrist

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

If you’re not a centrist/independent, you’re a nutter. Sorry.

It is an opinion piece. Who cares?

524 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:36:46pm

re: #515 Guanxi88

Well, I’ll agree with that side of it; enough assholes get my cash already without me having people go to seek them out on my behalf.

Eh, I could take or leave Coulter, and pity the Canadians; they can’t be trusted, it seems, with harsh ideas or words.

Incitement of hate is a little more than just harsh words, and we don’t penalize people for their ideas.

We also don’t go around suing others for every imagined slight. We regulate, you guys sue.

Don’t forget, the only time Canadians get in the US press is when something odd ball happens. That gives you a very distorted idea of what it is really like.

525 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:36:57pm

re: #506 The Sanity Inspector

Yes, Obama is definitely the superior orator, no question. Even he fum-fuhs away from a script, though.

Did Bush have a script? Quite seriously, Bush should have had more scripts. That way, he wouldn’t have just made up words.

Anyone who seriously thinks any politician who is giving a PREPARED speech doesn’t have it written down, is an idiot. That’s what “prepared” speech means. I’ve worked for professional men and women for 30 years and they all have prepared speeches at their conferences.

526 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:38:14pm

re: #391 webevintage

Damn, will this woman never go away?

Only when she’s no longer able to con people into giving her money.

527 Olsonist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:39:22pm

re: #525 marjoriemoon

Sort of like at a comedy club; you really really don’t want to go to amateur night when the office clown shows up. It’s painful to watch.

528 GlutenFreeJesus  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:39:50pm

re: #48 Lidane

Would it really be any different than their current reaction? The way they’re carrying on, you’d think the Republic had fallen into total anarchy and we were on the verge of civil war.

It would be just one more annoying thing we’d have to hear. I don’t know about you, but the less the better. It’s already reached the point of sensory overload.

529 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:39:51pm

re: #523 blueraven

It is an opinion piece. Who cares?

I don’t know, maybe the 42% of the public (more than Dem/Repubs combined) that calls themselves “independents”?

cbsnews.com

We’re tired of your crap and we’re taking over starting in November. We tried to warn you in 1994, 2000, and 2008 but no one listened so we’ll do it again in 2010 and play it by ear from there.

530 avanti  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:40:28pm

Here’s a reasoned response to the health car bare from a right wing blog:/

“The radical totalitarian progressive movement has finally achieved its long cherished goal of Eugenics. The House of Representatives passed the Obamacare Bill (220-211 (thanks Eliana!)) last night. Despite the fact that the American people are opposed to it, they went ahead with it anyway. This is not about reforming Health Care, it’s about achieving Totalitarian control over who lives and dies. It’s about creating a New Man or the Master Race the Progressives have been trying to achieve since the early 1900’s. Eugenics is the means through which the New Left will remodel society according to their Ideology.”

531 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:40:47pm

re: #522 wlewisiii

Always prefered Traveller for that since it doesn’t have anything but natural consequences to the characters activities. It’s especially good in the New Era timeline where the events can be made character scaled.

Still a good use for your gaming :)

I have a friend who played a rogue who’s alignment changed from CG at the full moon to CE at the new moon, varying every day according to the phase of the moon. Interesting to GM her… really confused the bleep out of our Paladin who finally decided she was sick & his responsibility to “cure”.

William

I played a Lawful Evil Rogue whose best friend in the group was the Paladin. Thanks to a series of badly rolled sense motive rolls, and the presence of things a lot worse than me around whenever he chose to Sense Evil, we got along great.

“You go back to the ship and get the crew ready to launch. I’m just going to have a quick talk with the tribal elders about that golden idol of theirs real fast.”
“Sure thing buddy.”

532 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:40:53pm

re: #529 RogueOne

I don’t know, maybe the 42% of the public (more than Dem/Repubs combined) that calls themselves “independents”?

[Link: www.cbsnews.com…]

We’re tired of your crap and we’re taking over starting in November. We tried to warn you in 1994, 2000, and 2008 but no one listened so we’ll do it again in 2010 and play it by ear from there.

You in da zone, dude.

533 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:41:03pm

re: #524 b_sharp

Incitement of hate is a little more than just harsh words, and we don’t penalize people for their ideas.

We also don’t go around suing others for every imagined slight. We regulate, you guys sue.

Don’t forget, the only time Canadians get in the US press is when something odd ball happens. That gives you a very distorted idea of what it is really like.

Hey, I watch South Park - I know all about you guys.

534 Olsonist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:41:05pm

re: #529 RogueOne

Who is your candidate then?

535 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:41:36pm

re: #531 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Heh, silly Paladin.
:)

536 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:42:11pm

re: #380 SanFranciscoZionist

Judaism does not have any official doctrine on an afterlife. As a result, some of us have believed practically everything over the centuries. ;)

PIRKE AVOT: All Israel have a share in the World to Come, as it is stated: and your people are all righteous; they shall inherit the land forever; they are the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, in which to take pride.

PIRKE AVOT 4:16. Rabbi Yaakov said, this world is like a vestibule before the World to Come; prepare yourself in the vestibule so that you may be worthy to enter the main hall.

537 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:42:26pm

re: #533 Guanxi88

Hey, I watch South Park - I know all about you guys.

What are you talking aboot?

538 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:42:50pm

re: #537 Mad Al-Jaffee

What are you talking aboot?

Fellah!

539 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:43:12pm

re: #533 Guanxi88

Hey, I watch South Park - I know all about you guys.

Come on, please, I’m sick and every time I start laughing I break out in a coughing jag. Be kind to my lungs.

540 Spider Mensch  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:43:15pm

re: #519 HoosierHoops

China! Tear down this wall!
We should never back track with information…
China needs a thousand Google-like websites…Overwhelm them with information..After all
The Truth shall set you free…

they already started a competitor website..”Googre!”… get it?

/I know, I know..cheap un P-C comment..I apologize beforehand..lol…don’t get yer chop sticks in a twist…lol

541 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:43:46pm

re: #538 Guanxi88

Fellah!

I’m not your friend, buddy!

542 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:43:50pm

re: #537 Mad Al-Jaffee

What are you talking aboot?

Eh, canadians always sort of struck me as being like slightly less brooding versions of Mainers, with an unhealthy respect for the law, authority, and the feelings of others.

543 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:44:22pm

re: #541 Varek Raith

I’m not your friend, buddy!

I’m not your buddy, guy!

544 Summer Seale  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:44:31pm

Yay for Google! Thank you Google for doing the right thing! =)

545 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:44:33pm

re: #534 Olsonist

Who is your candidate then?

Whoever is running against any incumbent that voted for the stimulus package and the HCR bill. Sen. Bayh is already gone and the seat will most certainly flip. My rep is Mike Pence ( I know, I know) and I’ve voted for him a grand total of one time but he’ll get my vote again this time so I hope the rest of you are happy. LOOK AT WHAT YOU’VE MADE ME DO!

546 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:45:02pm

re: #542 Guanxi88

Eh, canadians always sort of struck me as being like slightly less brooding versions of Mainers, with an unhealthy respect for the law, authority, and the feelings of others.

We’ve fooled the world. Except those who watch us play hockey.

547 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:45:26pm

re: #543 Mad Al-Jaffee

I’m not your buddy, guy!

Buddy Guy?

Youtube Video

548 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:45:47pm

re: #534 Olsonist

Who is your candidate then?

Well, for my part I took a look at Rand Paul, but decided instead to back Rand McNally because at least he’s got a road map.

;-)

549 Olsonist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:45:59pm

re: #545 RogueOne

Right. You’re not an independent. You’re a Republican.
Own it. Represent it. Say it.

550 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:46:12pm

re: #545 RogueOne

Whoever is running against any incumbent that voted for the stimulus package and the HCR bill. Sen. Bayh is already gone and the seat will most certainly flip. My rep is Mike Pence ( I know, I know) and I’ve voted for him a grand total of one time but he’ll get my vote again this time so I hope the rest of you are happy. LOOK AT WHAT YOU’VE MADE ME DO!

You’re just about to slide into home, aren’t you?

551 Kragar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:46:59pm

re: #535 Varek Raith

Heh, silly Paladin.
:)

They’re funny like that.

As we’re making our way back across a desert, the guide didn’t like the fact that I promised his village would offer a dragon a yearly sacrifice in exchange for an item we needed.

“What happened to the guide?”
“A giant bird flew down and snatched him away while you were asleep.”
/rolls a 2 on sense motive.
“OK, are we almost back to the village?”
“Yeah, but I need you to wait here with the horses, I think they might try and pull a fast one on us.”

552 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:48:17pm

re: #546 b_sharp

We’ve fooled the world. Except those who watch us play hockey.

Bah, hockey! You guys make a sport and a big deal outta the kind of mindless brutality that marks ever snowy day in the States.

I recall PJ O’Rourke, on the eve of the 1st Persian gulf War, proposing that we broadcast footage of the Watts Riots, the celebrations after major sports victories, the Rodney King Riots, and all the rest of it to the Iraqis, with the words “This is what we do to ourselves, in peacetime; imagine what we’ll do to YOU in a war” underneath, as a sort of psyops.

553 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:49:15pm

re: #552 Guanxi88

Bah, hockey! You guys make a sport and a big deal outta the kind of mindless brutality that marks ever snowy day in the States.

I recall PJ O’Rourke, on the eve of the 1st Persian gulf War, proposing that we broadcast footage of the Watts Riots, the celebrations after major sports victories, the Rodney King Riots, and all the rest of it to the Iraqis, with the words “This is what we do to ourselves, in peacetime; imagine what we’ll do to YOU in a war” underneath, as a sort of psyops.

STOP MAKING ME LAUGH. It hurts.

554 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:49:23pm

re: #545 RogueOne

Whoever is running against any incumbent that voted for the stimulus package and the HCR bill. Sen. Bayh is already gone and the seat will most certainly flip. My rep is Mike Pence ( I know, I know) and I’ve voted for him a grand total of one time but he’ll get my vote again this time so I hope the rest of you are happy. LOOK AT WHAT YOU’VE MADE ME DO!

Well, aren’t you the rogue one?

Seriously…the stimulus package stopped us from sliding into another depression. The HCR bill will benefit you more than it will cost you. You normally don’t sound like you’re sleeping with Sarah, but really, vote FOR someone FOR something. Don’t vote as protest…it diminishes your reason for voting. Positive…try to focus on the positive.

555 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:49:48pm

re: #552 Guanxi88

We’re the crazy drunken roofer who lives in the apartment right below you. Seems like a nice enough guy, but man, what a temper!

556 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:51:12pm

re: #554 darthstar

Well, aren’t you the rogue one?

Seriously…the stimulus package TARP PROGRAM(s) stopped us from sliding into another depression. The HCR bill will benefit you more than it will cost you IF you are currently uninsured or underinsured. You normally don’t sound like you’re sleeping with Sarah, but really, vote FOR someone FOR something. Don’t vote as protest…it diminishes your reason for voting. Positive…try to focus on the positive.


ftfy!

557 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:51:46pm

re: #549 Olsonist

Right. You’re not an independent. You’re a Republican.
Own it. Represent it. Say it.

That’s pretty rude.// Usually whoever the Libertarians put up in this district gets my vote other than in 2002 because of the war. My local state rep is a dem and he always gets my vote because he’s a good man, Bayh/Lugar are as moderate as their parties allow and almost interchangable but with Bayh making the wrong choices whoever they put up to run is going to take the brunt of it. I happen to like my governor for mulitiple reasons but mostly because he’s trying to drag a farm state into the 21st century over the howls of a shrinking farm population.

I don’t think most independents like me actually vote “for” someone, I think we usually vote “against” someone since we don’t have a lot of options.

558 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:51:57pm

re: #552 Guanxi88

Bah, hockey! You guys make a sport and a big deal outta the kind of mindless brutality that marks ever snowy day in the States.

I recall PJ O’Rourke, on the eve of the 1st Persian gulf War, proposing that we broadcast footage of the Watts Riots, the celebrations after major sports victories, the Rodney King Riots, and all the rest of it to the Iraqis, with the words “This is what we do to ourselves, in peacetime; imagine what we’ll do to YOU in a war” underneath, as a sort of psyops.

Even worse, it’s the kind of democracy we want to give them.

559 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:52:34pm

re: #558 darthstar

Even worse, it’s the kind of democracy we want to give them.

Hell, I think that a US-level of violence would be a welcome respite for those guys.

560 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:53:10pm

re: #556 sattv4u2

ftfy!

Thanks. But the stimulus package is also showing benefit.

561 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:53:17pm

re: #555 Guanxi88

We’re the crazy drunken roofer who lives in the apartment right below you. Seems like a nice enough guy, but man, what a temper!

The US is Canada’s best friend and frequently our schizophrenic drunken prom date.

562 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:53:33pm

re: #502 lawhawk

Google is pulling out of China...

China relieved since they forgot to take their pill this morning.
/

563 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:53:54pm

re: #559 Guanxi88

Hell, I think that a US-level of violence would be a welcome respite for those guys.

Good point.

564 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:53:58pm

re: #561 b_sharp

The US is Canada’s best friend and frequently our schizophrenic drunken prom date.

I think that might be a lot closer. Yeah, we’re that crazy guy you got stuck living next to your freshman year.

565 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:54:47pm

I thought Canada is “America’s hat.”

:)

566 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:55:24pm

re: #560 darthstar

Thanks. But the stimulus package is also showing benefit.

not nearly compared to the overall cost

567 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:55:33pm

re: #565 Mad Al-Jaffee

I thought Canada is “America’s hat.”

:)

That would make Alaska the pony tail sticking out the back.

568 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:55:40pm

re: #565 Mad Al-Jaffee

I thought Canada is “America’s hat.”

:)

Sombrero. Eh.

569 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:55:43pm

re: #565 Mad Al-Jaffee

I thought Canada is “America’s hat.”

:)

And Mexico would be our shoes?

570 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:55:55pm

re: #565 Mad Al-Jaffee

I thought Canada is “America’s hat.”

:)

Nope - they are “Unconquered source of hydropower and pulp wood” population - unknown.

Reminds me: Ya know what Canada and Mexico both have that America does not?

A single rich neighbor.

571 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:55:57pm

re: #540 Spider Mensch

they already started a competitor website..”Googre!”… get it?

/I know, I know..cheap un P-C comment..I apologize beforehand..lol…don’t get yer chop sticks in a twist…lol

LOL
good one..
After 4 days of serious College Basketball games.. I’m exhausted..
I’m laying with the dog on the Couch watching a kids movie called ET..
My points..
1. It’s always a smart idea when you travel half way across the Universe to have an armed guard while landing on the Earth…Didn’t any of you Aliens watch the in-flight movie?
2. Never let a Alien drink a 12 pack of Coors during any extended stay..For any reason…
3. Anybody making long range Inter Stellar radio equipment out of a hair dryer and foil really needs to get over eating Candy..(Those are children ET..I’m sure you’ve seen a few)
Ok..I’m having fun today.. But I’m going to expound on this theme..We will see after I see the Ending….I’m sure ET goes home but does he take a taxi?
*wink*

572 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:56:09pm

Gotta jet. Hope to catch up with you crazy cats later.

573 Guanxi88  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:56:16pm

re: #569 marjoriemoon

And Mexico would be our shoes?

Vivan los Zapatos!

574 darthstar  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:56:17pm

re: #566 sattv4u2

not nearly compared to the overall cost

Patience…these things take time. President Obama said, at the start of his presidency, that this could take three or more years. It’s only been one.

575 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:56:33pm

Has Rush left the country yet? Someone should call him and remind him to leave.

576 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:56:41pm

re: #62 lawhawk

Anyone thinking that this will be repealable in 2010, 2012, or beyond is really fooling themselves.

They really are. Matt Yglesias looked at the numbers. Repeal would be impossible in 2010 even if the GOP won every Senate election this year:

yglesias.thinkprogress.org

I’m not sure I agree with his assumption that Romney will end up the GOP nominee in 2012, and it’s too soon to make any claims on how that election will turn out. However, I’ll agree that anyone who thinks repeal has any traction any time in the near future is flat wrong.

577 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:56:58pm

re: #554 darthstar

…vote FOR someone FOR something. Don’t vote as protest…it diminishes your reason for voting. Positive…try to focus on the positive.

That would ruin my whole “down with the man” gig. The only thing I’m positive about is my belief that a large centralized government is a bad idea.

578 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:57:30pm

re: #575 Conservative Moonbat

Has Rush left the country yet? Someone should call him and remind him to leave.

We should make him a travel basket. Suntan lotion, crosswords to do on the plane…

579 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:57:50pm

re: #575 Conservative Moonbat

Has Rush left the country yet? Someone should call him and remind him to leave.

There’s already a website taking up a collection to pay for his ticket:

aticketforrush.com

Heh.

580 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:58:48pm

re: #574 darthstar

Patience…these things take time. President Obama said, at the start of his presidency, that this could take three or more years. It’s only been one.

“stimulus” wasn’t on the table then. TARP stabilized the banking/ ins institutions. If Stimulus was so needed (and working so well) why is he looking for Stimulus Part Two?

Can you say PAYBACK/PORK !?!?!?

581 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:59:32pm

re: #579 Lidane

There’s already a website taking up a collection to pay for his ticket:

[Link: www.aticketforrush.com…]

Heh.

Don’t be sending him up here. We have quite enough hot air of our own.

582 Olsonist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:01:24pm

re: #557 RogueOne

I’m beyond skeptical of Libertarians. Everything you criticize Obama for you could have loudly criticized Bush for. Loudly. I think your Libertarianism is in fact selective and for the most part, like Progressives for the Dems, Libertarians represent a safe Republican vote.

Basically, it sounds cool to be Libertarian, not as nutty as Paulian, cooler than Conservative and without the icky legislative/governing record of Republican.

583 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:02:11pm

re: #582 Olsonist

Nope, not really.
;)

584 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:02:40pm

re: #569 marjoriemoon

And Mexico would be our shoes?

Think of it as our shorts, and then think what that makes Baja California.

585 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:04:36pm

re: #582 Olsonist

I’m beyond skeptical of Libertarians. Everything you criticize Obama for you could have loudly criticized Bush for. Loudly. I think your Libertarianism is in fact selective and for the most part, like Progressives for the Dems, Libertarians represent a safe Republican vote.

Actually they, we, did. You must have been asleep. Don’t you remember the whole liberalterian stuff being promoted by Kos and quite a few dems? You loved us when bush was in office but now that your guy is taking the heat we’re the bad guys.

586 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:05:10pm

re: #545 RogueOne

Nobody made you do it.

issues2000.org

That’s what you’re voting for. Anti-choice, highly for the war on drugs. Opposes alternative energy. Rated 100% by the Christian Coalition.

Nobody is making you do it. That’s who you’re pulling the lever for.

587 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:05:55pm

re: #582 Olsonist

reason magazine often criticized Bush, and still does.

588 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:10:21pm

re: #586 Obdicut

Nobody made you do it.

[Link: www.issues2000.org…]

That’s what you’re voting for. Anti-choice, highly for the war on drugs. Opposes alternative energy. Rated 100% by the Christian Coalition.

Nobody is making you do it. That’s who you’re pulling the lever for.

I did it gladly. National defense is one of the very few places where I believe the federal government actually has a role in our lives. Until dems decide to stop being afraid of the military, in times of war, I’ll always pull the lever for the republican. The dems lost me for good in ‘91 by ignoring a UN resolution and the largest united coalition in history and have done nothing since then to change my mind. As long as it’s not their guy in the white house they will never vote for the use of force regardless of the situation.

589 Lidane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:13:54pm

re: #581 b_sharp

Don’t be sending him up here. We have quite enough hot air of our own.

Unless you live in Costa Rica, you’ve got nothing to worry about. ;)

590 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:16:01pm

re: #588 RogueOne

Wow. Okay. I didn’t realize you were that extremist.

591 garhighway  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:17:22pm

re: #473 RogueOne

America is neither left nor right but centrist

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

If you’re not a centrist/independent, you’re a nutter. Sorry.

I am beginning to think that the reason our party politics have gotten so divisive is the fact that so much of the electorate has gone independent. When the centrists leave the parties, the only people left are the extremists. So the primaries go to the more extreme candidate in each party, and the middle is less and less represented.

It’s just a theory.

592 Olsonist  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:18:08pm

re: #588 RogueOne

… Until dems decide to stop being afraid of the military, in times of war, I’ll always pull the lever for the republican. The dems lost me for good in ‘91 by ignoring a UN resolution and the largest united coalition in history and have done nothing since then to change my mind. As long as it’s not their guy in the white house they will never vote for the use of force regardless of the situation.

See, that sounds like a Republican talking point.

Recall the Democratic management of WWII. FDR had to prepare the country and Britain for the war against Republican opposition. That war was much more of an existential crisis than one Arab non-democracy invading another. Then there’s the whole backing Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war when it was in our interests.

I could go on, but really, you’re not a Libertarian.

593 HappyWarrior  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:31:42pm

So I see the baby killer yeller was identified huh.

594 webevintage  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:46:00pm

re: #575 Conservative Moonbat

Has Rush left the country yet? Someone should call him and remind him to leave.

Silly.
He just said he would go to Costa Rica for health care, not that he would actually leave the country.
If only it could be so easy to get rid of him….

595 Petero1818  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 1:59:13pm

re: #594 webevintage

Silly.
He just said he would go to Costa Rica for health care, not that he would actually leave the country.
If only it could be so easy to get rid of him…

Whatever he said, it was just satire….

596 Diane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 2:13:41pm

re: #302 RogueOne

I thought it was not what one believes in that matters, but how one behaves and treats others, atheist or not.

597 lostlakehiker  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 2:31:02pm

re: #143 drcordell

Nowhere did I say that they caused the economic boom. I am merely pointing out that for the entire history of our nation up until the 1980’s the top tax brackets paid well above a 50% tax rate. And the economic growth of our nation was not stifled in any way.

Yet all I hear is people blathering on and on and on about how our economy is going to be crippled by raising tax rates to a fraction of what they were for 200 years. It’s complete and utter horseshit. Without higher tax rates, our government will be bankrupt. It’s as simple as that.

Did you know that for most of the history of this nation, we didn’t even have an income tax? It’s less than a century old. On top of that, for most of the history of the nation, the taxpayer at the 95th percentile paid a small fraction of his income. The very high rates kicked in only for the very few who earned hundreds or thousands of times the median income.

The “top bracket” is of little consequence when it touches only a few movie actors and a couple of industrialists. When your average small business owner is paying about 50 percent, and then when they die the company they built must fold because almost all of its net value is soaked up by estate tax, well, that has consequences for the economy.

598 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 2:38:47pm

re: #597 lostlakehiker

The average small business owner is not paying 50% in income tax.

Why would you say that?

599 lostlakehiker  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 2:49:59pm

re: #598 Obdicut

The average small business owner is not paying 50% in income tax.

Why would you say that?

Federal, state, and local? The marginal rate is close to that, for successful small businesses. An unsuccessful business won’t pay much taxes, but then it won’t employ many workers either.

I probably unconsciously weighted “average small business” by the number of employees. As in, “think of a typical worker in a small business. Think of the owner of that business. What tax rate will he be paying when all the increases go into effect?”

600 Diane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 2:59:50pm

My 13 years old son went to a Florida hospital last week with quite a grave condition, he waited 1/2 hour at the emergency before he was treated by a very nice doctor. They sent him back in Canada presto with a not to the airline and an immunosuppressive drug to slow down his mysterious autoimmune disease. Back in Ottawa, he waited 5 hours at the emergency ward before a doctor saw him.

Two years ago, he showed up at the emergency room here in Canada, with a much graver condition. It took 12 hours before he received any treatment, by then he was disfigured…

I am very grateful that in the Canadian system, no one has to pay but I just hope that the accessibility of top medical treatments in the US will not reach the low points of the Canadian system. Many of us go to the States to be treated faster. We pay an awful lot of taxes and yet, the services seem to just disintegrate.

In any case, Bless America! I love your country as much as mine.

601 Diane  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 3:02:06pm

re: #600 Diane

*a note* to the airline

602 HappyWarrior  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 3:29:09pm

I heard some of Boehner’s speech. Perhaps he was looking at himself.

603 Uncle Obdicut  Mon, Mar 22, 2010 5:04:20pm

re: #599 lostlakehiker

In other words, you simply made it up.


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