Bad Craziness Dominates GOP

Wingnuts • Views: 4,606

John Avlon says this new Harris poll is scary, and that’s probably an understatement. Bad craziness has taken over the right to an appalling degree.

Obama Derangement Syndrome—pathological hatred of the president posing as patriotism—has infected the Republican Party. Here’s new data to prove it:

  • 67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist.
  • 57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim
  • 45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was “not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president”
  • 38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is “doing many of the things that Hitler did”
  • Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama “may be the Antichrist.”

These numbers all come from a brand-new Louis Harris poll, inspired in part by my new book Wingnuts.  It demonstrates the cost of the campaign of fear and hate that has been pumped up in the service of hyper-partisanship over the past 15 months. We are playing with dynamite by demonizing our president and dividing the United States in the process. What might be good for ratings is bad for the country.

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1365 comments
1 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:29:08am

Point #1 is a fact, anyone can see that.

Points 2 - 4 are full of fail.

2 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:29:55am

re: #1 Oh no...Sand People!

Point #1 is a fact, anyone can see that.

Points 2 - 4 are full of fail.

and #5 is just plain goofy

3 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:31:29am

re: #2 Guanxi88

Oops. I counted up to four after I counted point 1... I should have had 5 points.

Good call.

4 Virginia Plain  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:31:33am

Not goofy, but terrifyingly crazy.

5 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:31:37am

I don't doubt for a minute that there are plenty of people with those views. But I do doubt that the numbers are as high as that story says.

6 bosforus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:34:24am

Those "overall" stats are scary enough on their own.

7 Qabal  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:34:45am

re: #1 Oh no...Sand People!

Yes, Obama has clearly avoided centrist policies like sending more troops to Afghanistan, continuing the Patriot Act, continuing second term Bush foreign policy, and dropping the public option, among numerous others. Clearly, 100% socialist!

Oh, not to mention that Republicans were for the individual mandate before they were against it. Socialists! ([Link: www.npr.org...]

8 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:34:50am

And I love that this is the same crew that wants our children to be less educated than they are. (I'm looking at YOU Texas...)

*head smack*

9 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:36:08am

I'd love to know what percentage of that percentage that think he is a socialist actually know what socialism looks like....

10 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:36:16am
We are playing with dynamite by demonizing our president and dividing the United States in the process.

No. We are not.

It's a 2 party system. Well...now that the Executive and Legislative branches are (D)'s... it doesn't require a whole lot to be 'uniters' on policy.

[Link: blog.sarcasmsociety.com...]

11 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:36:26am

re: #5 _RememberTonyC

I don't doubt for a minute that there are plenty of people with those views. But I do doubt that the numbers are as high as that story says.

While most of my conservative friends and family members are pretty much the same, I've seen more than a few become increasingly crazy in the past year or so.

12 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:36:30am

re: #7 Qabal

Yes, Obama has clearly avoided centrist policies like sending more troops to Afghanistan, continuing the Patriot Act, continuing second term Bush foreign policy, and dropping the public option, among numerous others. Clearly, 100% socialist!

Oh, not to mention that Republicans were for the individual mandate before they were against it. Socialists! ([Link: www.npr.org...]

I would love to ask these same people to define the following phrases:

Socialism
Communism
Capitalism
Democracy
Republic

And then ask them to list the full bill of rights. If they got more than two of them right I'd be surprised.

13 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:36:37am

They left out the part about Obama eating puppies for breakfast!

14 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:37:15am

re: #7 Qabal

Yes, Obama has clearly avoided centrist policies like sending more troops to Afghanistan, continuing the Patriot Act, continuing second term Bush foreign policy, and dropping the public option, among numerous others. Clearly, 100% socialist!

Oh, not to mention that Republicans were for the individual mandate before they were against it. Socialists! ([Link: www.npr.org...]

You make it sound like we were fine with Bush and his policies and the Patriot Act.

15 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:37:21am

re: #13 Mad Al-Jaffee

They left out the part about Obama eating puppies for breakfast!

'Cause they're for lunch

16 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:37:50am

re: #9 jamesfirecat

I'd love to know what percentage of that percentage that think he is a socialist actually know what socialism looks like...

Or know that socialism isn't just the Soviet Union and that the Soviets actually persecuted Socialists too. The one that makes me rise my eyebrow the most is the Anti-Christ one though.

17 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:38:03am

From the link:

The full results of the poll, which will be released in greater detail tomorrow, are even more frightening:

Tease.

I'll be back tomorrow.

18 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:38:05am

re: #13 Mad Al-Jaffee

They left out the part about Obama eating puppies for breakfast!

That's because he doesn't eat them himself. He cuts them up into little pieces and gives them to minorities and illegal immigrants. That's socialism.

19 Coracle  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:38:16am

re: #1 Oh no...Sand People!

Point #1 is a fact, anyone can see that.


I you you brought enough of what you're smoking to share.

20 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:38:16am

re: #11 Soap_Man

While most of my conservative friends and family members are pretty much the same, I've seen more than a few become increasingly crazy in the past year or so.

I don't disagree. But I have never been polled, and I have seen polls be wrong. Remember the exit polls in the 2004 election when it looked like a john kerry victory over GWB? Or Dewey over Truman?

21 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:38:30am

re: #9 jamesfirecat

I'd love to know what percentage of that percentage that think he is a socialist actually know what socialism looks like...

They've seen it on Glenn Beck. That's all they need.

I see this poll as more an indication of what people are digesting from their media. No way they came up with this stuff without the constant fearmongering of Fox, Beck, Limbaugh et al.

22 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:38:34am

re: #2 Guanxi88

and #5 is just plain goofy

Seriously...everyone knows Bush was the anti-christ, and I can prove it with the Bible--so it has to be true.

Evidence #1: Rev. 13:3 "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."
Evidence #2: Bush's head wound from choking on a pretzel.
Evidence #3: A pretzel...yes, it does look like three sixes laid on top of each other...

666 ! OMFGZ! I'm right, Bush is the anti-christ! Call Glenn Beck, and get me on the show!

23 bosforus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:39:10am

re: #12 Cineaste
Along that line of thinking...
Top ten most misunderstood words as inferred by Google's auto-suggest when typing in the word "define: ":
Agnostic, Love, Integrity, Culture, Avatar, Ethics, Irony, Socialism, Leadership, Metaphor

24 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:39:32am

re: #9 jamesfirecat

I think they really mean somethingIdon'tlikeism or Ididn'tgetmywayism or waaaah!ism.

25 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:39:33am

re: #19 Coracle

I you you brought enough of what you're smoking to share.

[Link: news.nationaljournal.com...]

Put that in your pipe.

26 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:39:43am

I saw his article posted on yahoo. People were commenting and acting like he was some Democratic and liberal hack. This guy worked for Rudy Giuliani. He's not someone with a bias for Obama and the left like myself.

27 bosforus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:39:44am

re: #13 Mad Al-Jaffee

They left out the part about Obama eating puppies for breakfast!

Can't I just eat my puppies!

28 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:39:53am

This is the fourth or fifth poll I've posted here that shows similar results.

29 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:40:23am

Hey, this is no fair... Bush is the anti-christ

Pope fears Bush is antichrist, journalist contends

30 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:40:31am

re: #21 Stanley Sea

They've seen it on Glenn Beck. That's all they need.

I see this poll as more an indication of what people are digesting from their media. No way they came up with this stuff without the constant fearmongering of Fox, Beck, Limbaugh et al.

"You tell us what you're thinking, then we select the polls that we like to use as proof to tell you what to think the next time we ask you what you're thinking. It's like taking a sausage and feeding it back into the grinder it came out of. And that's what we in the business call, the cycle of meat!"

(Paraphrasing Stephen Colbert)

31 jaunte  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:40:52am

Antichrist! I guess that solves some holiday shopping problems.

32 simoom  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:40:53am

The full poll results sound like they will be even more bleak:

The full results of the poll, which will be released in greater detail tomorrow, are even more frightening: including news that high percentages of Republicans—and Americans overall—believe that President Obama is "racist," "anti-American" "wants the terrorists to win" and "wants to turn over the sovereignty of the United States to a one-world government." The "Hatriot" belief that Obama is a "domestic enemy" as set forth in the Constitution is also widely held—a sign of trouble yet to come.

bleh.

33 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:41:14am

re: #23 bosforus

Along that line of thinking...
Top ten most misunderstood words as inferred by Google's auto-suggest when typing in the word "define: ":
Agnostic, Love, Integrity, Culture, Avatar, Ethics, Irony, Socialism, Leadership, Metaphor

that's excellent!

My favorite is typing in "where is" and the 2nd most sought after thing, according to google auto-suggest is:

"Where is Chuck Norris"

It's a good question. You never want him sneaking up on you.

34 Coracle  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:41:32am

re: #25 Oh no...Sand People!

That stale hash was played out before the last election. You're welcome back to reality anytime. We have cookies.

35 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:41:42am

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

...Many socialists, from Henri de Saint-Simon, one of the founders of early socialism (Utopian Socialism), to Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx, advocated for the creation of a society that allows for the widespread application of modern technology to rationalise economic activity by eliminating the anarchy of capitalist production.[8][9] They reasoned that this would allow for economic output (or surplus value) and power to be distributed based on the amount of work expended in production, although there is disagreement among socialists over how and to what extent this can be achieved.

"Are you not entertained! Are you not ENTERTAINED!" - Russell Crowe as that Gladiator dude.

36 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:42:01am

re: #28 Charles

This is the fourth or fifth poll I've posted here that shows similar results.

Nobody is saying you played fast and loose with the numbers ... maybe the Republicans I know are more moderate than the rest. But those numbers seem high to me.

37 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:42:12am

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

Hey, this is no fair... Bush is the anti-christ

Pope fears Bush is antichrist, journalist contends

The Pope's got bigger fears right now. Like making sure no one finds out how mixed up in the pedophile priest situation in Germany he was.

38 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:42:15am

By this current definition of "Socialism", Teddy Roosevelt would be a socialist.

Now, supposing that he was a socialist, can you honestly say that he wasn't a decent competent leader?

39 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:42:16am

re: #18 Cineaste

That's because he doesn't eat them himself. He cuts them up into little pieces and gives them to minorities and illegal immigrants. That's socialism.

But first he has to use his awesome commie executive powers to snatch those puppies from all the hard working business owners out there so he can then cut them up and give them out to the undeserving.

40 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:42:28am

re: #19 Coracle

I you you brought enough of what you're smoking to share.

Al Sharpton agrees with #1.

“First of all, then we have to say the American public overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they elected President Obama. Let’s not act as though the president didn’t tell the American people – the president offered the American people health reform when he ran. He was overwhelmingly elected running on that and he has delivered what he promised.”

41 recusancy  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:42:37am

re: #25 Oh no...Sand People!

[Link: news.nationaljournal.com...]

Put that in your pipe.

Liberal ≠ Socialist

42 Donna Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:43:02am

re: #4 Virginia Plain

Not goofy, but terrifyingly crazy.

That is no joke! It just shows how the conservative religious right is controlling the constituency through fear. The Churches have been doing it for hundreds, if not thousands, of years but now the political religious right have now taken up the fear hammer to get control. Its nothing new but politics has taken on a new form of evil, using the Church to control what happens in the Government.

43 bosforus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:43:03am

re: #33 Cineaste

Now type, "how do vamp" and look at the third suggestion.

44 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:43:16am

re: #41 recusancy

Liberal ≠ Socialist

Classical Liberal? Or you talking 'Progressive'?

45 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:43:23am

re: #20 _RememberTonyC

I don't disagree. But I have never been polled, and I have seen polls be wrong. Remember the exit polls in the 2004 election when it looked like a john kerry victory over GWB? Or Dewey over Truman?

True.

My friend got polled a few weeks ago about healthcare. This is how he described to me:

Pollster: Do you support or oppose the Democrat's Healthcare Reform plan.
Friend: Neutral.
Pollster: Okay, I'll put you down as "no opinion."
Friend: Don't do that. It makes it sound like I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't think it's that bad and I don't think it's that good. I think its just okay. I don't care if it passes or not. I'm neutral.
Pollster: (long pause) So I'm going to put you down as "no opinion."

46 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:43:31am

By the way ..... Jerusalem is not a settlement. As much as the palestinians and the political left seem to believe it is.

47 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:43:42am

re: #39 webevintage

But first he has to use his awesome commie executive powers to snatch those puppies from all the hard working business owners out there so he can then cut them up and give them out to the undeserving.

Yes. Mostly from plumbers who plan to be making more than $2M next year. *cough* Joe *cough*

48 Coracle  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:44:00am

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

Al Sharpton agrees with #1.

Yeah. He's _my_ political maven. Please. It really loses it's punch without the sarc tag.

49 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:44:08am

re: #36 _RememberTonyC

Nobody is saying you played fast and loose with the numbers ... maybe the Republicans I know are more moderate than the rest. But those numbers seem high to me.

People said the same after the Daily Kos poll. Now Harris confirms it wasn't just a fluke. I actually don't blame the people who believe this crap--they're just loyal fans of Fox news, who airs the rabid rantings of the likes of Michelles Malkin and Bachmann, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, etc. and don't ever try to off-set those claims with factual rebuttal.

50 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:44:25am

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

Al Sharpton agrees with #1.

“First of all, then we have to say the American public overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they elected President Obama. Let’s not act as though the president didn’t tell the American people – the president offered the American people health reform when he ran. He was overwhelmingly elected running on that and he has delivered what he promised.”

Why do I suspect that's the only time you'll ever quote Al Sharpton as a reliable source on anything?

51 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:44:39am

I am telling you what bugs me is the dishonesty about socialism. I am not going to say all socialism is good but there are many things in society today that we use or take for granted that are the result of socialistic measures or activism. I am no fan of Marx or Marxism but Marx did argue against child labor when conventional capitalistic wisdom was okay with it. Not everything is so black and white. Not all socialists are totalitarian tyrants and of course equally so not all capitalists are greedy people either.

52 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:45:21am

re: #48 Coracle

Yeah. He's _my_ political maven. Please. It really loses it's punch without the sarc tag.

Well, the President certainly seems to value the man's efforts on his behalf

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

53 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:46:04am

13 State AG's Sue Over Health Care Overhaul


TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - Attorneys general from 13 states sued the federal government Tuesday, claiming the landmark health care overhaul bill is unconstitutional just seven minutes after President Barack Obama signed it into law.

The lawsuit was filed in Pensacola after the Democratic president signed the bill the House passed Sunday night.

"The Constitution nowhere authorizes the United States to mandate, either directly or under threat of penalty, that all citizens and legal residents have qualifying health care coverage," the lawsuit says.

Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum is taking the lead and is joined by attorneys general from South Carolina, Nebraska, Texas, Michigan, Utah, Pennsylvania, Alabama, South Dakota, Idaho, Washington, Colorado and Louisiana. All are Republicans except James "Buddy" Caldwell of Louisiana, who is a Democrat.

Some states are considering separate lawsuits and still others may join the multistate suit.

54 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:46:09am

re: #51 HappyWarrior

I am telling you what bugs me is the dishonesty about socialism. I am not going to say all socialism is good but there are many things in society today that we use or take for granted that are the result of socialistic measures or activism. I am no fan of Marx or Marxism but Marx did argue against child labor when conventional capitalistic wisdom was okay with it. Not everything is so black and white. Not all socialists are totalitarian tyrants and of course equally so not all capitalists are greedy people either.

Libraries, Police, Firefighters a nation's army... indeed, some things should not be left to the mercy of the free market....

55 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:46:25am

re: #45 Soap_Man

True.

My friend got polled a few weeks ago about healthcare. This is how he described to me:

Pollster: Do you support or oppose the Democrat's Healthcare Reform plan.
Friend: Neutral.
Pollster: Okay, I'll put you down as "no opinion."
Friend: Don't do that. It makes it sound like I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't think it's that bad and I don't think it's that good. I think its just okay. I don't care if it passes or not. I'm neutral.
Pollster: (long pause) So I'm going to put you down as "no opinion."

poll data is always succeptible to manipulation. framing the question a certain way determines a lot about the answer. and the example you showed is a good one.

56 Qabal  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:46:58am

I usually wait for Nate Silver's parsing of these kinds of polls before I get too excited about them. He had some legitimate caveats with the last one that Daily Kos funded with regards to question order and how it could have led to more sane people dropping out of the survey when they realized it was basically a "how much of a wingnut are you?" kind of poll.

57 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:47:00am

re: #51 HappyWarrior

I am telling you what bugs me is the dishonesty about socialism. I am not going to say all socialism is good but there are many things in society today that we use or take for granted that are the result of socialistic measures or activism. I am no fan of Marx or Marxism but Marx did argue against child labor when conventional capitalistic wisdom was okay with it. Not everything is so black and white. Not all socialists are totalitarian tyrants and of course equally so not all capitalists are greedy people either.

Yes, I agree. A moticum of government is required. I am deeply grateful to those old cliche' ridden '17th century' founding fathers who understood that some things were best for the engine of capitalism to flourish by government intervention...like roads and national defense.

58 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:47:13am

re: #55 _RememberTonyC

poll data is always succeptible to manipulation. framing the question a certain way determines a lot about the answer. and the example you showed is a good one.

Wonder how the Anti-Christ question was phrased..!

59 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:47:58am

re: #9 jamesfirecat

I'd love to know what percentage of that percentage that think he is a socialist actually know what socialism looks like...

I'd say 25%, with me being a part of that 25%. Or rather, I think Obama is left-liberal, and favors some socialist policies. I don't think he has some kind of "socialist agenda".

60 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:48:30am

re: #46 _RememberTonyC

By the way ... Jerusalem is not a settlement. As much as the palestinians and the political left seem to believe it is.

running OT already.

But to that end. Remember all that right-wing huffing and puffing about how the US-Israel relationship was destroyed by Hillary & Joe's phone calls last week? I guess they wuz wrong:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Looks like things are fine to me.

(ps: that's my friend Tony Blinken in the foreground next to the VP!)

61 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:48:37am

If we're talking the antichrist, we might as well have the right musical accompaniment.

62 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:48:48am

And what percentage of them watch Fox News religiously?

I only ask because my friend's parents have gone completely Apocalyptic Fundamentalist Christian, think President Obama is the anti-christ, and keep Fox News on every waking hour.

63 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:48:48am

re: #46 _RememberTonyC

By the way ... Jerusalem is not a settlement. As much as the palestinians and the political left seem to believe it is.

Quite Concur.

64 bosforus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:49:21am

re: #58 Stanley Sea

Wonder how the Anti-Christ question was phrased..!

You walk into a barn and you see four horses, is it reasonable to assume that one of them is black?

65 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:49:21am

Tea partiers told to 'drop by' Tom Perriello's home

A tea party organizer angry over Rep. Thomas Perriello’s (D-Va.) vote in favor of health care reform published what he thought was the freshman member’s home address on a blog, in case any readers “want to drop by” and provide a “personal touch” to their views.

Rather than giving out Perriello’s address however, the tea party activist mistakenly printed the home address of the congressman’s brother. Perriello’s brother and wife have four children under the age of 8.
...
In an interview with POLITICO, Troxel admitted to writing the post and said that he has no intention of removing the address from the blog.
....
Troxel, a 2005 graduate of Liberty University, added “I was a journalism major in college, so I have every reason to believe my research is accurate.”

Fail

66 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:49:21am

re: #54 jamesfirecat

Libraries, Police, Firefighters a nation's army... indeed, some things should not be left to the mercy of the free market...

We actually tried private firefighting companies once. Didn't work out too well.

Also: don't forget the maritime industry. The companies would not be conforming to half of the modern safety developments without the IMO twisting their arms.

67 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:49:39am

re: #64 bosforus

You walk into a barn and you see four horses, is it reasonable to assume that one of them is black?

Huh?

68 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:49:41am

re: #51 HappyWarrior

I am telling you what bugs me is the dishonesty about socialism. I am not going to say all socialism is good but there are many things in society today that we use or take for granted that are the result of socialistic measures or activism. I am no fan of Marx or Marxism but Marx did argue against child labor when conventional capitalistic wisdom was okay with it. Not everything is so black and white. Not all socialists are totalitarian tyrants and of course equally so not all capitalists are greedy people either.

not to mention that I would be loathe to go back to the days of private fire brigades...

69 recusancy  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:49:43am

re: #55 _RememberTonyC

poll data is always succeptible to manipulation. framing the question a certain way determines a lot about the answer. and the example you showed is a good one.

I'm sure you'll have the same arguments and caveats every time Rasmussen polls Obama's approval ratings. And when Fox has a poll on approval of Health Care Reform.

70 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:49:59am

re: #58 Stanley Sea

Wonder how the Anti-Christ question was phrased..!

Probably like this ...

"Do you think President Obama has policies that are different from Charlie Crist?" (Yes)

"Then does that mean you think Obama is the "Anti Crist?" (Yes)

71 lostlakehiker  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:50:00am

Sigh. People will believe anything.

90% of Democrats believe that a program is fiscally sound if ten years of revenue will cover the cost of six years of outlays.

72 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:50:10am

re: #62 eclectic infidel

And what percentage of them watch Fox News religiously? ....

Updinged for correct adverb choice.

73 bosforus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:50:41am

re: #67 jamesfirecat

Huh?

...anti-christ... ...four horses of the apocalypse...

74 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:50:50am

re: #66 Dante41

We actually tried private firefighting companies once. Didn't work out too well.

Also: don't forget the maritime industry. The companies would not be conforming to half of the modern safety developments without the IMO twisting their arms.

I think Terry Pratchett put it fairly well... (as best I can recall)

"Ankh Morepork tried having private firefighting companies once. It took them about three days to figure out that if they were paid to put out fires it was in their best interest to see there were plenty of them. The Patrician quickly disbanded them after charcol wensday...."

75 bosforus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:50:58am

re: #73 bosforus

...anti-christ... ...four horses of the apocalypse...

...misleading question...

76 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:51:09am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Tea partiers told to 'drop by' Tom Perriello's home

Fail


They teach journalism at Liberty University? They only have one book.

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:51:16am

re: #38 Dante41

By this current definition of "Socialism", Teddy Roosevelt would be a socialist.

Now, supposing that he was a socialist, can you honestly say that he wasn't a decent competent leader?

I don't know, but he appears to be a major target for Glenn Beck these days.

78 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:51:19am

This is where I stand...leave my money alone and no one gets hurt.

Swing from chandeliers in your own home, smoke what you will, do whatever your little heart desires in the confines of your own home as long as it is legal and all parties are consenting.

But as soon as you try to legislate it into my home or bring it to the public square, then I will, in turn, bring out everything I have in my home and fight you in that public square if I disagree with what you are trying to legislate into my home.

I will allocate and donate my own resources how I see fit. Offer me a good or service that I deem is necessary and acceptable and fills a 'want' or 'need' and I will spend my money on it. If not..I will not.

Is that so hard to understand?

79 Coracle  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:51:33am

re: #52 Guanxi88

Well, the President certainly seems to value the man's efforts on his behalf

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

re: #52 Guanxi88

Ergo socialist. Of course. Your logic could cut diamonds.
/

80 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:51:36am

re: #69 recusancy

I'm sure you'll have the same arguments and caveats every time Rasmussen polls Obama's approval ratings. And when Fox has a poll on approval of Health Care Reform.


of course they should .... all polls are required to be seen with a bit of skepticism.

81 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:52:07am

re: #76 darthstar

They teach journalism at Liberty University? They only have one book.

"Thou shalt not scoop thy neighbor's wife"

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:52:18am

re: #46 _RememberTonyC

By the way ... Jerusalem is not a settlement. As much as the palestinians and the political left seem to believe it is.

Of course it's a settlement. It's been continuously settled for thousands of years.

///

83 theheat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:52:22am

re: #62 eclectic infidel

completely Apocalyptic Fundamentalist Christian, think President Obama is the anti-christ, and keep Fox News on every waking hour.

I second that. It's a freaky phenomenon. Huge. Bigtime. Totally off the rails, and this is what they have in common.

84 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:52:31am

re: #1 Oh no...Sand People!

Talk to a socilaist - see if they count him as a fellow traveller or not.

Hint - he isn't.

85 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:53:04am

re: #71 lostlakehiker

Sigh. People will believe anything.

90% of Democrats believe that a program is fiscally sound if ten years of revenue will cover the cost of six years of outlays.

Believing a Glenn Beck conspiracy and CBO analysis are not equivalent.

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:53:11am

re: #49 darthstar

People said the same after the Daily Kos poll. Now Harris confirms it wasn't just a fluke. I actually don't blame the people who believe this crap--they're just loyal fans of Fox news, who airs the rabid rantings of the likes of Michelles Malkin and Bachmann, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, etc. and don't ever try to off-set those claims with factual rebuttal.

I blame the people who believe this crap.

This is too weird.

87 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:53:16am

re: #84 wozzablog

Talk to a socilaist - see if they count him as a fellow traveller or not.

Hint - he isn't.

I said socialist...not communist.

88 Donna Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:53:32am

re: #78 Oh no...Sand People!

This is where I stand...leave my money alone and no one gets hurt.

Swing from chandeliers in your own home, smoke what you will, do whatever your little heart desires in the confines of your own home as long as it is legal and all parties are consenting.

But as soon as you try to legislate it into my home or bring it to the public square, then I will, in turn, bring out everything I have in my home and fight you in that public square if I disagree with what you are trying to legislate into my home.

I will allocate and donate my own resources how I see fit. Offer me a good or service that I deem is necessary and acceptable and fills a 'want' or 'need' and I will spend my money on it. If not..I will not.

Is that so hard to understand?

Not to me its not, but then I'm a conservative and as such I hope you don't consider yourself a liberal with an attitude like that...

89 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:53:47am

re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist

I blame the people who believe this crap.

This is too weird.

They believe what they want to believe. Fox helps them do that. So I suppose you have a point there.

90 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:54:17am

re: #60 Cineaste

running OT already.

But to that end. Remember all that right-wing huffing and puffing about how the US-Israel relationship was destroyed by Hillary & Joe's phone calls last week? I guess they wuz wrong:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Looks like things are fine to me.

(ps: that's my friend Tony Blinken in the foreground next to the VP!)

Why won't Obama allow any photos to be taken of him and Netanyahu?

91 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:54:22am

re: #87 Oh no...Sand People!

I said socialist...not communist.

So are there any actual socialists out there who are open about it? Or is it like you're a socialist iif you're in the closet and a communist if you're out proud and open about it?

92 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:54:22am

re: #5 _RememberTonyC

Among primary voting GOP'ers?.......... i'm not sure i schare your scepticism.

93 Vambo  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:54:23am

re: #5 _RememberTonyC

I don't doubt for a minute that there are plenty of people with those views. But I do doubt that the numbers are as high as that story says.

and I hope you are right. 14% of Americans believe the president is the Anti-Christ? good grief.

94 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:54:32am

re: #84 wozzablog

Talk to a socilaist - see if they count him as a fellow traveller or not.

Hint - he isn't.

My brother was telling me that Colbert had the actual Socialist candidate on during the campaign. He was like are you kidding me, he's not one of us. And hell it needs to be pointed out that there are many liberals who feel Obama is not liberal enough. Myself among them at least on some issues. Like I want him to be more forceful on gay rights and move to a more practical approach on the drug war.

95 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:54:54am

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know, but he appears to be a major target for Glenn Beck these days.

Teddy Roosevelt: RINO.

Words cannot describe the failure of that sentiment.

96 Donna Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:54:56am

BBL All! Have a great day, and Keep Laughing!

97 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:55:03am

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

Why won't Obama allow any photos to be taken of him and Netanyahu?

Oh god, Cropping Gate.....

98 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:55:20am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Tea partiers told to 'drop by' Tom Perriello's home

Yeah, that's not creepy at all. =P

“I was a journalism major in college, so I have every reason to believe my research is accurate.”

LOL forever. That's hilarious.

99 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:55:29am

re: #71 lostlakehiker

Sigh. People will believe anything.

90% of Democrats believe that a program is fiscally sound if ten years of revenue will cover the cost of six years of outlays.

It's a planned ratchet effect, letting them revisit the legislation later. If the GOP wises up next year, we can preempt that by making smarter revisions sooner. More choice in available plans, fewer mandates, but still maintain the increased oversight and exchanges. That's the smart play. Most likely, the GOP will just call names and obstruct. He's a song for that:

Youtube Video
100 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:55:44am

re: #79 Coracle

re: #52 Guanxi88

Ergo socialist. Of course. Your logic could cut diamonds.
/

Iron cuts diamonds; logic is applicable to syllogisms, not to matters of fact.

Sharpton certainly appears to be under the impression, at least at the time he uttered the words, that he was not making a surprising or controversial statement. Now, I'd point out that conflating the beneficent commonsense of the President's advocacy for this health reform with socialism is a vile and reprehensible thing, as we've been told endlessly. Is BHO now betrayed by Sharpton? Has the Fox News consipracy spread this far?

Recall, if you will, that Julian Bond noted that Dr. King was certainly in the socialist strain, and the question becomes whether calling someone a socialist is such a bad thing after all. Beck et al can throw the word as a weapon, but Sharpton and Bond seem to use the word approvingly.

101 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:55:49am

re: #88 Dragon_Lady

Not to me its not, but then I'm a conservative and as such I hope you don't consider yourself a liberal with an attitude like that...

Only cut from the 'Classical' cloth, which is a 'fiscal conservative'. Socially...meh, I don't care who kills their own baby / fetus however you want to name it or who marries whom. Just leave my money alone...which they can't...and so I am pissed.

102 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:56:19am

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

Why won't Obama allow any photos to be taken of him and Netanyahu?

I was wondering if people would get their panties in a twist because the President is focused on his meeting and not taking time out to give photo-ops. I'm sure there will be pics of Netanyahu entering the White House. People know he's there. This is a nontroversy.

103 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:56:31am

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

It's a planned ratchet effect, letting them revisit the legislation later. If the GOP wises up next year, we can preempt that by making smarter revisions sooner. More choice in available plans, fewer mandates, but still maintain the increased oversight and exchanges. That's the smart play. Most likely, the GOP will just call names and obstruct. He's a song for that:


[Video]

I've got a better one for the state of the current GOP...

Youtube Video
104 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:56:39am

re: #51 HappyWarrior

I am telling you what bugs me is the dishonesty about socialism. I am not going to say all socialism is good but there are many things in society today that we use or take for granted that are the result of socialistic measures or activism. I am no fan of Marx or Marxism but Marx did argue against child labor when conventional capitalistic wisdom was okay with it. Not everything is so black and white. Not all socialists are totalitarian tyrants and of course equally so not all capitalists are greedy people either.

We abolished child labor. We got worker's rights. It was pure socialism, fought for by socialists and 'progressives', and ditzy society ladies, and dirty Commies, and we AIN'T going back.

Nowadays, of course, the same people who call Teddy Roosevelt a socialist argue that the Third World needs child labor and no factory inspections and machine operators making three bucks a month to survive and flourish, because they know no one here is going to buy it any more.

105 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:56:47am

re: #87 Oh no...Sand People!

He isn't.

Not even close on current definitions of world left wing polictics.

He is to the left of George W Bush but to the right of Hilary Clinton. Clinton isn't a socialist either.

"there are reds under the hospital beds....." - not going to work as a campaign slogan.

106 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:57:19am

re: #102 darthstar

I was wondering if people would get their panties in a twist because the President is focused on his meeting and not taking time out to give photo-ops. I'm sure there will be pics of Netanyahu entering the White House. People know he's there. This is a nontroversy.

Hannity raised a stink over him using Grey Poupon mustard. This is a veritable step up.

107 Coracle  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:57:25am

re: #100 Guanxi88

Beck et al can throw the word as a weapon, but Sharpton and Bond seem to use the word approvingly.

It's equally inaccurate no matter who uses it for what purpose.

108 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:57:30am

Socialism

Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization which advocate either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.

109 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:57:46am

re: #103 jamesfirecat

I've got a better one for the state of the current GOP...


[Video]

That works too.

110 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:58:00am

re: #105 wozzablog

He isn't.

Not even close on current definitions of world left wing polictics.

He is to the left of George W Bush but to the right of Hilary Clinton. Clinton isn't a socialist either.

"there are reds under the hospital beds..." - not going to work as a campaign slogan.

No. He is to the left of Hillary Clinton. He was 2007 MOST liberal voting senator.

/Oh..but since 2007 was SOOO far away.

111 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:58:01am

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

Why won't Obama allow any photos to be taken of him and Netanyahu?

I know! It's totally insane that there aren't any photos of them together. Photos like this...

oh...

*good grief*

112 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:58:13am

re: #106 Dante41

Hannity raised a stink over him using Grey Poupon mustard. This is a veritable step up.

Grey Poupon is made by Kraft. An American company. OMFG!

113 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:58:15am

re: #100 Guanxi88

Iron cuts diamonds; logic is applicable to syllogisms, not to matters of fact.

Sharpton certainly appears to be under the impression, at least at the time he uttered the words, that he was not making a surprising or controversial statement. Now, I'd point out that conflating the beneficent commonsense of the President's advocacy for this health reform with socialism is a vile and reprehensible thing, as we've been told endlessly. Is BHO now betrayed by Sharpton? Has the Fox News consipracy spread this far?

Recall, if you will, that Julian Bond noted that Dr. King was certainly in the socialist strain, and the question becomes whether calling someone a socialist is such a bad thing after all. Beck et al can throw the word as a weapon, but Sharpton and Bond seem to use the word approvingly.

If I recall correctly I think my mom once told me how the phrase "Yankees" came about as us being called "John Cheese" by some group of people with a particular accent.

History is full of examples of people taking an insult and turning it into a badge of pride...

114 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:58:26am

re: #104 SanFranciscoZionist

We abolished child labor. We got worker's rights. It was pure socialism, fought for by socialists and 'progressives', and ditzy society ladies, and dirty Commies, and we AIN'T going back.

Nowadays, of course, the same people who call Teddy Roosevelt a socialist argue that the Third World needs child labor and no factory inspections and machine operators making three bucks a month to survive and flourish, because they know no one here is going to buy it any more.

Don't let Glenn know. He's getting a book from a progressive era library to tell us how Teddy Roosevelt destroyed American meals forever when he established the FDA. I should have the right to have a rat in my steak damnit.

115 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:58:39am

Now I must depart. Later all.

116 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:58:54am

Meeting time for me. Later.

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:58:57am

re: #76 darthstar

They teach journalism at Liberty University? They only have one book.

But it's all eyewitness accounts!

118 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:59:06am

re: #55 _RememberTonyC

poll data is always succeptible to manipulation. framing the question a certain way determines a lot about the answer. and the example you showed is a good one.

Not just that. I found the polling for HRC to be mostly useless. How about asking why people oppose the bill?

Do you think it is too liberal? Not liberal enough? Would you support it if the public option was in there? Would you support it if it contained most of the provisions but cost less overall? I can think of 20 similar questions.

But all we got was this useless black and white poll. For example, for the people who opposed, if most say they oppose because it is too liberal, then it is losing support because it is too liberal. If those opposed split between too liberal and not liberal enough, then it is appealing to the mainstream.

I want that polling info dammit!

119 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 9:59:43am

re: #112 darthstar

Grey Poupon is made by Kraft. An American company. OMFG!

But it's rich peoples mustard. Therefore he thinks he's better than us real Americans by using it. Man, what an elitist.

/// /// ///

120 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:00:11am

re: #119 Dante41

But it's rich peoples mustard. Therefore he thinks he's better than us real Americans by using it. Man, what an elitist.

/// /// ///

Elitist is tea party talk for uppity

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:00:18am

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

Why won't Obama allow any photos to be taken of him and Netanyahu?

I don't know. Link?

122 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:00:41am

re: #112 darthstar

Grey Poupon is made by Kraft. An American company. OMFG!

THE EUROPEEN SOCIALISTS R TAKIN OVER OUR COMPANIES!!11 QUICK!1 BUY THEZE SURVIVAL SEEDZ BEFORE THEY FORCE YOU TO EAT ARGULA WITH YOUR BURGER!!111

/Glenn Beck

123 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:00:56am

re: #108 Olsonist

Socialism

Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization which advocate either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.

Please don't confuse the discussion by inserting facts.

124 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:01:21am

re: #111 Cineaste

I know! It's totally insane that there aren't any photos of them together. Photos like this...

oh...

*good grief*

Bibi hits the Hill

After a defiant speech to the AIPAC conference last night, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu hit the Hill Tuesday morning, meeting with GOP leaders, Jewish members, the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and Speaker Nancy Pelosi before she rushed to Obama's signing of the health care reform bill.

He showed up late for the 8am meeting with Jewish members and it was somewhat rushed, one Hill source said. Whatever matter was the focus of conversation, Netanyahu found a way to link it to Iran, the staffer said.

"He knows that this is something that is going to move members of Congress, even if they are angry about the expansion of Jewish housing, that they are going to Iran as a threat," the staffer said. "He connected Iran to just about every subject that was raised." He pushed members to a reconciled Iran sanctions bill to the president's desk soon, even if there is collateral damage, e.g. if Iranian p eople are hurt by the sanctions, that is the price of peace, his argument was summarized.

Netanyahu also showed members a map of how Israel was still, he argued, "respecting 1967 conditions," the staffer said.

...Netanyahu has a meeting and photo op with the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ken.) at 3:15PM. He then is due to meet with Obama tonight at the White House, no photos, no press.

Why not?

125 Vambo  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:01:56am

re: #118 Soap_Man

Not just that. I found the polling for HRC to be mostly useless. How about asking why people oppose the bill?

Do you think it is too liberal? Not liberal enough? Would you support it if the public option was in there? Would you support it if it contained most of the provisions but cost less overall? I can think of 20 similar questions.

But all we got was this useless black and white poll. For example, for the people who opposed, if most say they oppose because it is too liberal, then it is losing support because it is too liberal. If those opposed split between too liberal and not liberal enough, then it is appealing to the mainstream.

I want that polling info dammit!

bingo.

Fox News: "70% of Americans don't want this bill!!!!", and none of their viewers even stop to wonder if that 70% includes hardcore socialists.

126 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:01:57am

Even accepting for the moment the proposition that Obama was the most liberal Senator doesn't make Obama a socialist. That would be like saying the most conservative Senator is automatically a fascist. That's just dumb.

127 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:02:05am

The Anti-Christ is perhaps the most pathetic one by far though it also has the least amount of people believing it but still.

128 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:02:08am

re: #124 NJDhockeyfan

Why not?

why is it required?

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:02:20am

re: #111 Cineaste

I know! It's totally insane that there aren't any photos of them together. Photos like this...

oh...

*good grief*


Well, you can see by the President's closed-off body language how much he resents Bibi.

//

130 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:02:30am

re: #96 Dragon_Lady

BBL All! Have a great day, and Keep Laughing!

Kind regards!
You know Winston and I just walked around the Backyard..
Winston..We are opening the pool in 6 weeks
Open it now Hoopster!
Don't worry little Winston..Soon it will be hotter than Hell in Indiana..
Open it now Hoopster!
Wanna go inside and watch pre season Baseball Winston?
OK Ok...
Open the Pool Hoopster!
I swear to God Winston..When I open the pool I'm throwing you in first thing..
You wouldn't!
I'll be laughing at you..Swim you bitch!
I hate you Hoopster!
*wink*

131 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:02:40am

re: #125 Vambo

bingo.

Fox News: "70% of Americans don't want this bill!!!", and none of their viewers even stop to wonder if that 70% includes hardcore socialists.

I think given that they support Glenn Beck fox news doesn't care who agrees with them as long as they do....

132 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:03:07am

re: #53 NJDhockeyfan

13 suits that will go nowhere, but get lots of publicity for the Aspiring Governors who filed them. It's all a dog and pony show.

133 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:03:09am

re: #94 HappyWarrior

I saw that interview.

Socialists believe in the Government hoding the means of production for the greater good - Obama does not - a hint as to how you can tell - Coal Mines, still under private ownership.

Power companies - still privately owned.

Most banks (aside formt the ones Comrade Bush nationalised) - still privately owned.

And there are no moves afoot for the government to start running any of them that do not collapse threatening the capitalist system.

Everything he has done has been to salvage capitalism - Healthcare PRemiums are on track to reach a level that is beyond most people, the banks of systemic risk may need worked over by the FDIC to save the privately run banking system........

A true socialist would have taken all of them under Government ownwership - for keeps, not so that the Government can consistently get the worse end of the bargain everytime.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:03:23am

re: #112 darthstar

Grey Poupon is made by Kraft. An American company. OMFG!

Even Malkin's commenters didn't buy that one. They were pointing out that they bought their Grey Poupon at Cost Mart, and that the only reason to think it was chichi was if you remembered those silly 80s ads with the limos.

135 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:04:10am

re: #133 wozzablog

I saw that interview.

Socialists believe in the Government hoding the means of production for the greater good - Obama does not - a hint as to how you can tell - Coal Mines, still under private ownership.

Power companies - still privately owned.

Most banks (aside formt the ones Comrade Bush nationalised) - still privately owned.

And there are no moves afoot for the government to start running any of them that do not collapse threatening the capitalist system.

Everything he has done has been to salvage capitalism - Healthcare PRemiums are on track to reach a level that is beyond most people, the banks of systemic risk may need worked over by the FDIC to save the privately run banking system...

A true socialist would have taken all of them under Government ownwership - for keeps, not so that the Government can consistently get the worse end of the bargain everytime.


Again with the facts.

136 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:04:25am

re: #110 Oh no...Sand People!


Because a voting record reflects so well what is in ones heart - and not whats in the bill in front of them/

137 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:04:27am

re: #110 Oh no...Sand People!

No. He is to the left of Hillary Clinton. He was 2007 MOST liberal voting senator.

And John Kerry was called the most liberal voting senator in 2004, at the same time that he was the Democratic nominee for President. Personally, I thought the result was hilarious considering that there's an actual Socialist in the Senate in Bernie Sanders.

Any poll that tries to make the case that somehow Obama or Kerry are to the left of Sanders-- or hell, even to the left of Feingold-- on anything is, quite frankly, full of shit.

138 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:05:11am

re: #124 NJDhockeyfan

Why not?

You make a fantastic point. The President will be publicly hosting the Prime Minister of Israel to a private dinner at the White House. Last night Bibi had dinner with the Vice President and the White House released the photos. Clearly Obama the Anti-Semite (///) is avoiding Bibi.

I think that the dinner at VP's residence (at which the picture I posted was taken) was closed to photos as well, because it was private. That doesn't mean there isn't the official White House photographer and that there is no evidence of the meeting.

====

"There's a world for people who think that everyone is out to get them... Yes! Perceptive!"
-- Woody Allen

139 Vambo  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:05:36am

re: #135 garhighway

Again with the facts.

I know! Damn that bitch!

140 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:05:37am

re: #137 Lidane

And John Kerry was called the most liberal voting senator in 2004, at the same time that he was the Democratic nominee for President. Personally, I thought the result was hilarious considering that there's an actual Socialist in the Senate in Bernie Sanders.

Any poll that tries to make the case that somehow Obama or Kerry are to the left of Sanders-- or hell, even to the left of Feingold-- on anything is, quite frankly, full of shit.

Yup.

I believe that "most liberal" thing is the opinion of one publication, although I can't remember which.

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:05:56am

re: #124 NJDhockeyfan

Why not?

Uh, probably because they're going to work, and it's not a photo op? Because the press is not invited, and he's passing on Michelle snapping photos of them with her little digital camera like a proud mom before prom?

142 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:06:18am

re: #114 HappyWarrior

Don't let Glenn know. He's getting a book from a progressive era library to tell us how Teddy Roosevelt destroyed American meals forever when he established the FDA. I should have the right to have a rat in my steak damnit.

You know if public libraries is socialist, that makes Andrew fricken Carnegie a socialist.

Also, Glenn Beck seems to want to return to the days of The Jungle. Perhaps he should read that book, and find out why the FDA was created.

143 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:06:28am

re: #139 Vambo

Beeeeotch...... please ;-)

144 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:06:44am

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh, probably because they're going to work, and it's not a photo op? Because the press is not invited, and he's passing on Michelle snapping photos of them with her little digital camera like a proud mom before prom?

But America is about to get its grove on with its hot Jewish date!

145 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:07:22am

re: #142 Dante41

You know if public libraries is socialist, that makes Andrew fricken Carnegie a socialist.

Also, Glenn Beck seems to want to return to the days of The Jungle. Perhaps he should read that book, and find out why the FDA was created.

Nepotistic upding for FDA reference, my dad, (and possibly soon my brother) works there!

146 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:07:41am

re: #144 jamesfirecat

But America is about to get its grove on with its hot Jewish date!

Obama has Shiksappeal?

147 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:07:44am

re: #140 Soap_Man

Yup.

I believe that "most liberal" thing is the opinion of one publication, although I can't remember which.

It's right up there with "the most pro-abortion president in history". Establishment of truth through acclamation, otherwise known as "repeat a lie often enough..."

148 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:07:51am

re: #142 Dante41

You know if public libraries is are socialist, that makes Andrew fricken Carnegie a socialist.

Also, Glenn Beck seems to want to return to the days of The Jungle. Perhaps he should read that book, and find out why the FDA was created.

PIMF

149 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:07:57am

It's the National Journal who publishes those ratings. Someone wrote an article saying that there is much fault with those since it focuses on the party line of a vote. They used the example of Kucinich planning to vote against the health care bill because it wasn't liberal enough being counted as a conservative vote. And the other thing in 2007 with Obama and 2004 with Kerry they were campaigning most of those years. Don't you think that their actual votes went down thus skewing their average? I looked at where Kerry and to a smaller extent Obama were in years where they did not run for president and it was much more in the center of hte Dem caucus.

150 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:08:21am

re: #147 torrentprime

It's right up there with "the most pro-abortion president in history". Establishment of truth through acclamation, otherwise known as "repeat a lie often enough..."

Otherwise known as Truthiness.

151 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:08:39am

re: #142 Dante41

You know if public libraries is socialist, that makes Andrew fricken Carnegie a socialist.

Also, Glenn Beck seems to want to return to the days of The Jungle. Perhaps he should read that book, and find out why the FDA was created.

He thinks he knows. He thinks it was all about extending government control, and he simply won't listen to contradictory evidence, He sees no reason to change, since his position is making him lots of money. I can't fully understand how someone thinks like that.

152 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:08:48am

re: #142 Dante41

You know if public libraries is socialist, that makes Andrew fricken Carnegie a socialist.

Also, Glenn Beck seems to want to return to the days of The Jungle. Perhaps he should read that book, and find out why the FDA was created.

And the Space Race should totally have been done through private enterprise. That would have showed the Russians...

oh wait...

153 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:08:57am

re: #142 Dante41

Also, Glenn Beck seems to want to return to the days of The Jungle. Perhaps he should read that book, and find out why the FDA was created.

He doesn't need to read it. He just needs to tour a factory farm slaughterhouse these days. There's a reason why millions of people come down with food borne illnesses every year, and it isn't all due to improper cooking.

154 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:09:03am

re: #130 HoosierHoops

For the first month I read LGF I thought that 'little Winston" referred to your johnson.

Now back to work.

155 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:09:14am

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh, probably because they're going to work, and it's not a photo op? Because the press is not invited, and he's passing on Michelle snapping photos of them with her little digital camera like a proud mom before prom?

Heh. That reminds me of the little pink camera Marisa Tomei had in My Cousin Vinny.

156 Vambo  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:09:24am

re: #142 Dante41

You know if public libraries is socialist, that makes Andrew fricken Carnegie a socialist.

Also, Glenn Beck seems to want to return to the days of The Jungle. Perhaps he should read that book, and find out why the FDA was created.

I loved the Beck clip where he said "books are free! I went to the library!"

Very much like the anti-reform nuts who say "health care is free! just go to the ER!".

HEADDESK x infinity

157 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:09:50am

re: #142 Dante41

You know if public libraries is socialist, that makes Andrew fricken Carnegie a socialist.

Also, Glenn Beck seems to want to return to the days of The Jungle. Perhaps he should read that book, and find out why the FDA was created.

Yep, I was thinking of the Jungle and how it led to the creation of the FDA which is why Beck's Roosevelt hatred is so inane. And public libraries is something Jon Stewart pointed out when they poked fun at his CPAC speech when he was saying he got his information from library books.

158 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:10:07am

re: #146 Cineaste

Obama has Shiksappeal?

Of course. He has that total Midwestern coolth thing going on.

159 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:10:53am

re: #71 lostlakehiker

Sigh. People will believe anything.

90% of Democrats believe that a program is fiscally sound if ten years of revenue will cover the cost of six years of outlays.

So you're drawing an equivalency between bad policy and lies that cause citizens to believe their president is a hitler-loving muslim terrorist without a valid birth certificate? Sorry, neither fair nor balanced.

160 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:11:20am

re: #152 Cineaste

And the Space Race should totally have been done through private enterprise. That would have showed the Russians...

oh wait...

I'm sure that is seen as a national defense project, and thereby exempt.

161 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:11:39am

re: #76 darthstar

They teach journalism at Liberty University? They only have one book.

Yeah, but it's THE book. Once you've got it, all others are superfluous.

162 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:12:59am

re: #151 Dark_Falcon

He thinks he knows. He thinks it was all about extending government control, and he simply won't listen to contradictory evidence, He sees no reason to change, since his position is making him lots of money. I can't fully understand how someone thinks like that.

Mental instability. My dad is a Vietnam Vet who was driven insane by the war, and I see that level of cognitive dissonance whenever he starts talking conspiracy theories.

163 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:13:17am

OT - Internet Explorer is rapidly falling toward the 50% mark for browsers visiting my website:

MS Internet Explorer 50.8 %
Firefox 20.8 %
Netscape 14.4 %
Safari 8.1 %
Google Chrome 3.1 %

164 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:13:33am

Jesus Fucking Christ, where did they take this poll, at a Tea Party?

165 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:13:35am

re: #161 palomino

Yeah, but it's THE book. Once you've got it, all others are superfluous.

They have a copy of Pride and Prejudice? Count me surprised.

166 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:14:06am

re: #162 Dante41

Mental instability. My dad is a Vietnam Vet who was driven insane by the war, and I see that level of cognitive dissonance whenever he starts talking conspiracy theories.

You don't have to be crazy to work for Fox, but it sure helps!

167 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:14:23am

re: #124 NJDhockeyfan

Why not?

probably because they actually want to have a substantive discussion and not some bull shit "happy happy joy joy" photo op.

Next faux!outrage?

168 ShaunP  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:15:19am

re: #167 webevintage

probably because they actually want to have a substantive discussion and not some bull shit "happy happy joy joy" photo op.

Next faux!outrage?

Why is Obama so ashamed of Israel?

////

169 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:15:39am

re: #164 CyanSnowHawk

Jesus Fucking Christ, where did they take this poll, at a Tea Party?

Tea Party, RNC headquarters...

Is there a difference these days?

170 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:16:14am

House Judiciary Chairman Says Constitution's Non-Existent ‘Good and Welfare Clause’ Authorizes Congress to Force Americans to Buy Health Insurance

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) said the “good and welfare clause” gives Congress the authority to require individuals to buy health insurance as mandated in the health care bill. However, there is no “good and welfare clause” in the U.S. Constitution.

If you can't win an argument, make shit up.

171 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:16:39am

re: #169 Cineaste

Tea Party, RNC headquarters...

Is there a difference these days?

Yeah, only one of them is willing to offer enough money to get Sarah Palin to show up.

ZING!

172 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:16:49am

re: #108 Olsonist

Socialism

Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization which advocate either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.

It doesn't matter what it really means. It's a scary word, especially for older folks who heard it in connection with the Russkies while they were hiding under their desks during civil defense drills. And since Obama is already "the Other" it becomes easier for many of them to believe there's evil there.

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:17:08am

re: #162 Dante41

Mental instability. My dad is a Vietnam Vet who was driven insane by the war, and I see that level of cognitive dissonance whenever he starts talking conspiracy theories.

Well, your dad has a good excuse. What's wrong with the rest of these folks? Too many Twinkies?

174 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:17:24am

re: #162 Dante41

Mental instability. My dad is a Vietnam Vet who was driven insane by the war, and I see that level of cognitive dissonance whenever he starts talking conspiracy theories.

Why do you say he was driven insane? Was it actual insanity or severe PTSD? You can decline to answer if you wish. I don't want to ask questions that are over the line.

175 jayzee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:17:34am

I agree with 1. The rest is batshit crazy. And as far as socialism goes:
1) There are many types of socialism-democratic socialism for example-and the President and many liberals do lean in that direction.
2) Even Carl Rove said sometimes socialism is good (I will look for the link later-he said it during an interview on Fox).

176 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:17:40am

re: #172 palomino

It doesn't matter what it really means. It's a scary word, especially for older folks who heard it in connection with the Russkies while they were hiding under their desks during civil defense drills. And since Obama is already "the Other" it becomes easier for many of them to believe there's evil there.

Do you support socialism?

177 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:17:43am

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

House Judiciary Chairman Says Constitution's Non-Existent ‘Good and Welfare Clause’ Authorizes Congress to Force Americans to Buy Health Insurance

If you can't win an argument, make shit up.

He was probably just talking about the Welfare Clause.

178 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:18:12am

re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, your dad has a good excuse. What's wrong with the rest of these folks? Too many Twinkies?

Very good reference, and very on point for your home city.

179 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:18:17am

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

House Judiciary Chairman Says Constitution's Non-Existent ‘Good and Welfare Clause’ Authorizes Congress to Force Americans to Buy Health Insurance

If you can't win an argument, make shit up.

I believe they won the argument yesterday, no?

That being said, this was pretty stupid of Conyers.

180 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:18:26am

re: #110 Oh no...Sand People!

Well, it's not 2007 any more and he's not a Senator. You're a dead ender still fighting the last election.

181 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:18:33am

re: #174 Dark_Falcon

Why do you say he was driven insane? Was it actual insanity or severe PTSD? You can decline to answer if you wish. I don't want to ask questions that are over the line.


Severe PTSD. He gets full disability from the government for it.

182 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:19:21am

re: #164 CyanSnowHawk

Jesus Fucking Christ, where did they take this poll, at a Tea Party?

Unknown. But FWIW, they're the answers I probably would have given if I had been contacted.

But then, I utterly despise pollsters, and go out of my way to skew their results by giving bullshit answers.

In fact, given pretty much any question about anyone where one of the answers was, "Do you think he/she is the Anti-Christ?" I would almost certainly answer "Yes!" just on principle.

183 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:19:39am

re: #165 Olsonist

They have a copy of Pride and Prejudice? Count me surprised.

It's not Pride and Prejudice, though. It's Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. ;)

184 simoom  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:19:47am

Speaking of polls, Gallup updated their Daily Presidential Approval polling at 1PM EST:
[Link: www.gallup.com...]

Today's numbers were 51% approve, 43% dissaprove (it was at 46+/48- mid-last week). Post-HCR bump?

185 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:20:00am

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

House Judiciary Chairman Says Constitution's Non-Existent ‘Good and Welfare Clause’ Authorizes Congress to Force Americans to Buy Health Insurance

If you can't win an argument, make shit up.

It supplanted the Good 'n' Plenty clause of the Articles of Confederation.

Is he trying to talk about 'general welfare'?

186 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:20:03am

re: #180 palomino

Well, it's not 2007 any more and he's not a Senator. You're a dead ender still fighting the last election.

Cheney!

187 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:20:21am

re: #154 Obdicut

For the first month I read LGF I thought that 'little Winston" referred to your johnson.

Now back to work.

LOL No..Little Winston is my Beverly Hills spoiled dog...My first pet...My Dog goes where ever I go...Check my avatar.The Poor dogs hate swimming with me in the summer..The music is loud..The weather is hot..The water is cool and the food is good and the Beer is Cold..My last summer in Indiana..
After this last Winter..Winston is finally going out with glee..
Those days where I let him out in Blizzards to do his business was not pleasant for him...
Go ahead Winston..Do your thing..Go on..
He would have a look in his eyes like you have got to f*cking kidding...You come out here and pee and poop in 40 MPH winds, Snow and ice..
You come out and try this!
Go ahead..Do your business Winston
I hate you Hoopster.. I'm dying here dude...Why Indiana?
Remember last summer?
No..I'm a dog dipshit..
//.

188 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:20:29am

re: #176 NJDhockeyfan

Do you support socialism?

I think it's important to bare in mind that saying "socialism" by itself is a loaded way of asking a question.

Socialism is a sliding scale.

Rapture run by Andrew Ryan is on one side...

Rapture run by Sophia Lamb is on the other....

(Guess what FPS series I've been playing lately)

America obviously falls between the two, and certain people drift in different directions. I approve of certain socialistic ideas like government run libraries where information is pooled so that no one is denied a chance to educate themselves should they have the desire.

See what I mean?

189 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:20:29am

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

House Judiciary Chairman Says Constitution's Non-Existent ‘Good and Welfare Clause’ Authorizes Congress to Force Americans to Buy Health Insurance

If you can't win an argument, make shit up.

Maybe he consults Monica on Constitutional matters.

190 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:20:31am

re: #181 Dante41

Severe PTSD. He gets full disability from the government for it.

sorry to hear that...very sad

191 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:20:38am

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

House Judiciary Chairman Says Constitution's Non-Existent ‘Good and Welfare Clause’ Authorizes Congress to Force Americans to Buy Health Insurance

If you can't win an argument, make shit up.

That being said, I do think he meant Article 1-Section 8:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Which cites "general welfare".

192 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:21:22am

Ezra Klien on the legal challenges to the mandate:

[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

And as a final note, let me propose a new rule: No conservative who supports these legal challenges can complain about activist judges ever again.

193 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:21:49am

re: #176 NJDhockeyfan

To the extent that there are some things--roads, GPS, emergency services, schools, ...--that are public goods, which are more efficiently supplied by a government, yeah I support socialism.

So do you.

194 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:21:54am

re: #188 jamesfirecat

I think it's important to bare in mind that saying "socialism" by itself is a loaded way of asking a question.

Socialism is a sliding scale.

Rapture run by Andrew Ryan is on one side...

Rapture run by Sophia Lamb is on the other...

(Guess what FPS series I've been playing lately)

Up. I've played it once; need to restart for more achievements.

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:21:55am

re: #176 NJDhockeyfan

Do you support socialism?

Sure. There are socialist countries that are good allies to the United States, and there are aspects of socialist policy that have greatly improved the lives of Americans. I am all for it.

Would I like to see the U.S. as an actual socialist nation? Whole different question.

196 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:22:01am

re: #51 HappyWarrior

I am telling you what bugs me is the dishonesty about socialism. I am not going to say all socialism is good but there are many things in society today that we use or take for granted that are the result of socialistic measures or activism. I am no fan of Marx or Marxism but Marx did argue against child labor when conventional capitalistic wisdom was okay with it. Not everything is so black and white. Not all socialists are totalitarian tyrants and of course equally so not all capitalists are greedy people either.

It's no accident that capitalism has brought with it progress, not merely in production but also in knowledge. Egoism and competition are, alas, stronger forces than public spirit and sense of duty.
--Albert Einstein

197 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:22:13am

re: #181 Dante41

Severe PTSD. He gets full disability from the government for it.

Thank you. Still, I can understand how someone fighting against an insurgency could start to believe in those. Spend time in a high-stress situation where things are often not what they seem and the need to look deeper at everything can become far more ingrained than it should be. Survival traits adopted during a crisis sometimes carry severe penalties when people try to get back to normal life.

198 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:22:30am

re: #177 Soap_Man

There is some legal mumbo jumbo that does conflate a couple of clauses - tracked it down the other night but lost the link

*sob*

199 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:22:32am

re: #189 SixDegrees

Maybe he consults Monica on Constitutional matters.

I was thinking of Sarah Palin's "Department of Law".

200 theheat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:22:33am

re: #188 jamesfirecat

I approve of certain socialistic ideas like government run libraries where information is pooled so that no one is denied a chance to educate themselves should they have the desire.

It may be the only hope Texas schoolchildren have in the near future.

201 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:22:35am

re: #190 albusteve

sorry to hear that...very sad


Yeah. He was a door gunner on a chopper for a year, and then became a LRRP for the 101st. He's got the CIB certificate framed to prove it. I am pretty damn sure he saw the hell of that war in ways I can't even imagine.

202 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:22:54am

re: #124 NJDhockeyfan

I guess this proves he's an anti-Semite.///

The fact that you're always looking for shit doesn't mean you're actually finding the shit you want. But you can always hope, can't you?

203 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:22:57am

re: #194 torrentprime

Up. I've played it once; need to restart for more achievements.

You better mean 2 I've played 1 like four times now, the last one of which earned me a big old pair of brass balls, hard, no vita chambers, no quick saves....

204 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:22:58am

re: #192 webevintage

Ezra Klien on the legal challenges to the mandate:

[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]

And as a final note, let me propose a new rule: No conservative who supports these legal challenges can complain about activist judges ever again.

suddenly Ezra is very popular...is he more astute than say VDH?...the truth is whatever you make it

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:23:00am

re: #181 Dante41

Severe PTSD. He gets full disability from the government for it.

All honor to him.

206 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:23:17am

re: #183 Lidane

Anti-Austenist. Go back to France.

207 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:23:26am

re: #172 palomino

It doesn't matter what it really means. It's a scary word, especially for older folks who heard it in connection with the Russkies while they were hiding under their desks during civil defense drills. And since Obama is already "the Other" it becomes easier for many of them to believe there's evil there.

Actually, we were hiding under our desks because of Communism, specifically Soviet Communism. Not Socialism.

Socialism was always viewed as Communism's retarded sibling.

I suppose that view isn't considered enlightened anymore.

208 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:23:29am

When the shallow critics denounce the profit motive inherent in our system of private enterprise, they ignore the fact that it is an economic support of every human right we possess and without it, all rights would soon disappear.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

...the myth of socialism is far stronger than the reality of capitalism. That is because capitalism is not really an ism at all. It is what people do if you leave them alone.
--Arnold Beichmen

209 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:23:43am

re: #191 Cineaste

Go one step further than that - Clause 18 is the necessary and proper clause to allow Congress the power to enact laws in furtherance of those enumerated powers. General welfare includes health, therefore legislation laying groundwork on health care reform falls within necessary and proper.

States might have a chance to argue that the legislation creates unfunded mandates without any funding mechanisms in place, but there again the courts have generally enabled the federal government to do such things.

210 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:24:08am

re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

The in phrase with the Economists is "mixed economy".

A bit of the government running stuff, a bit of the private sector and charitable organisations all undertaking to provide public service and goods/services.

211 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:24:27am

re: #197 Dark_Falcon

Thank you. Still, I can understand how someone fighting against an insurgency could start to believe in those. Spend time in a high-stress situation where things are often not what they seem and the need to look deeper at everything can become far more ingrained than it should be. Survival traits adopted during a crisis sometimes carry severe penalties when people try to get back to normal life.

Maybe. All I know is that he is can be a really nice guy, and a brilliant military historian. Then he segues into why there is concrete proof that the Jews secretly pulled off 9/11.

212 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:25:04am

re: #207 SixDegrees

Actually, we were hiding under our desks because of Communism, specifically Soviet Communism. Not Socialism.

Socialism was always viewed as Communism's retarded sibling.

I suppose that view isn't considered enlightened anymore.

Huh, I think it'd almost be more correct to say Socialism is to Communism as Canada is to America....

213 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:25:13am

Interesting quote from Frum's piece...

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

Yup. Pretty radical stuff there.

214 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:25:15am

re: #193 Olsonist

To the extent that there are some things--roads, GPS, emergency services, schools, ...--that are public goods, which are more efficiently supplied by a government, yeah I support socialism.

So do you.

sort of a duh! argument....people that oppose socialism, by and large, are concerned with it's effect on the economy and the accumulation of wealth....I think you know that, but carry on about schools and cops

215 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:25:54am

re: #209 lawhawk

Go one step further than that - Clause 18 is the necessary and proper clause to allow Congress the power to enact laws in furtherance of those enumerated powers. General welfare includes health, therefore legislation laying groundwork on health care reform falls within necessary and proper.

States might have a chance to argue that the legislation creates unfunded mandates without any funding mechanisms in place, but there again the courts have generally enabled the federal government to do such things.

Unfunded mandates aren't unconstitutional.

216 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:26:02am

re: #207 SixDegrees
Who's base was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Socialist - right there in the title.

217 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:26:14am

re: #181 Dante41

Severe PTSD. He gets full disability from the government for it.

And I thank your father for his service. This video is for all those who've faced grave danger and stood tall:

Youtube Video
218 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:26:26am

re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

Israel is more socialist than the US in a lot of ways, for example, and some socialist values-- like those of a Kibbutzim-- are highly valued.

219 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:26:30am

re: #212 jamesfirecat

Blame Canada.......

220 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:26:40am

re: #214 albusteve

sort of a duh! argument...people that oppose socialism, by and large, are concerned with it's effect on the economy and the accumulation of wealth...I think you know that, but carry on about schools and cops

Did you read the definition of socialism from upthread? If so, is that what you mean when you use the word?

221 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:26:43am

re: #201 Dante41

Yeah. He was a door gunner on a chopper for a year, and then became a LRRP for the 101st. He's got the CIB certificate framed to prove it. I am pretty damn sure he saw the hell of that war in ways I can't even imagine.

LRRPs where the best and toughest...you can be proud of him and I'm sure you are

222 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:26:45am

re: #215 garhighway

Unfunded mandates aren't unconstitutional.

But they are bullshit (usually)

223 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:26:55am

re: #165 Olsonist

They have a copy of Pride and Prejudice? Count me surprised.

Pride and Prejudice with Zombies. Kenyan Muslim non-birth certified Zombies.

224 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:27:12am

re: #216 wozzablog

Who's base was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Socialist - right there in the title.

Yes and as Jon Stewart pointed out we need to be aware of those "red staters" among us what with how they're Republicans and there's a People's Republic of China who are also "red"!

Its all connections people!

225 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:27:56am

re: #192 webevintage

Ezra Klein's reading of what an activist judge is skewed considering that if you argue that the HCR was itself an unconstitutional mandate and that the Constitutions prohibits such impositions, that isn't activist - it is merely following the mandate of the Court pretty much since its inception (well since Marbury and the judicial review concept came into existence) - to strike down laws that are unconstitutional. A judge who finds that HCR provisions are unconstitutional doesn't make them activist judges any more than a judge who upholds them makes them activist.

Creating rights out of whole cloth where none exist is a hallmark of an activist judge. Divining deeper meanings in penumbras and emanations is a hallmark of judicial activism.

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:27:58am

re: #214 albusteve

sort of a duh! argument...people that oppose socialism, by and large, are concerned with it's effect on the economy and the accumulation of wealth...I think you know that, but carry on about schools and cops

People who oppose socialism often do not acknowledge the socialist origins of things they want and need.

227 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:28:09am

re: #224 jamesfirecat

and the map to the treasure is on the back of the constitution...............

228 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:28:19am

re: #218 Obdicut

Israel is more socialist than the US in a lot of ways, for example, and some socialist values-- like those of a Kibbutzim-- are highly valued.

Membership in a kibbutz is voluntary, though.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:28:39am

re: #216 wozzablog

Who's base was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Socialist - right there in the title.

Democratic Republic of the Congo.

230 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:29:03am

re: #225 lawhawk


Creating rights out of whole cloth where none exist is a hallmark of an activist judge.

Like making people out of corporations, for example?

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:29:20am

re: #218 Obdicut

Israel is more socialist than the US in a lot of ways, for example, and some socialist values-- like those of a Kibbutzim-- are highly valued.

And yet, they are highly valued for being an democracy in the region.

232 kingkenrod  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:29:27am

re: #209 lawhawk

Go one step further than that - Clause 18 is the necessary and proper clause to allow Congress the power to enact laws in furtherance of those enumerated powers. General welfare includes health, therefore legislation laying groundwork on health care reform falls within necessary and proper.

States might have a chance to argue that the legislation creates unfunded mandates without any funding mechanisms in place, but there again the courts have generally enabled the federal government to do such things.

I don't see how a mandate to purchase insurance falls in the power granted in "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises...". Is the mandate a tax, duty, impost or excise tax?

233 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:29:33am

re: #228 The Sanity Inspector

Membership in a kibbutz is voluntary, though.

Healthcare provided by companies with government funding however is not.... (in Israel)

234 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:29:42am

re: #215 garhighway

Unfunded mandates aren't unconstitutional.

maybe they should be...just look at NJ and CA for examples of spending abuses...and IL, MI etc

235 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:30:07am

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

Democratic People's Republic of Korea......... you seee, right there in the title...... our friends :-)

/

236 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:30:10am

re: #199 torrentprime

I was thinking of Sarah Palin's "Department of Law".

"Monica Conyers as Queen of the Morons" is a lot nearer and dearer to my heart, living in the Detroit area.

After she got pissed off at the judge for sentencing her to 36 months for extortion instead of the 48 months Federal prosecutors had asked for, she tried to "withdraw" her guilty plea, then said, "I may be guilty of extortion, but I never took a bribe!"

Thanks for clearing that up, Monica. Gives the Feds something else to prosecute you for.

237 SpaceJesus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:30:19am

24 percent? obama is the most metal president ever

238 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:30:22am

re: #232 kingkenrod

I don't see how a mandate to purchase insurance falls in the power granted in "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises...". Is the mandate a tax, duty, impost or excise tax?

Tell you what then, why don't we establish single payer?

239 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:30:43am

Personally I think the HC legislation should have had an opt out of the mandate.
BUT to opt out you would have to promise never, ever, ever not pay a health care bill. Or that you will never get sick and the rest of us will have to pick up the bill.
That if you are in a horrible accident and do not have insurance that you will allow the hospital to kick you out without providing any care if your bank and credit check proves you are not capable of paying the bill. That if your kid gets sick and needs, well you get my drift.

(yes I joke, but really there is a reason for the mandate.)

240 abbyadams  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:30:52am

Hey, this is great. Threatening lawmakers' kids. Smashing windows.


Slaughter has been at the center of the push for reform. Last Thursday she received a chilling recorded message at her campaign office. “Assassinate is the word they used…toward the children of lawmakers who voted yes."

More here.

Sorry if this has been mentioned.

241 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:30:57am

re: #232 kingkenrod

I don't see how a mandate to purchase insurance falls in the power granted in "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises...". Is the mandate a tax, duty, impost or excise tax?

It's a tax. That's why the IRS is handling this. "Conditions A-Z allow you to not pay this tax (eg, having insurance from your employer or spouse's employer, not paying taxes); if none of those conditions apply, you pay."

242 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:31:04am

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

I had to check in on what the Orange County Register had to say when the HRC bill passed. They called it The Europeanization of America, thanks to health care “reform” So I guess our cooking will improve.

243 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:31:17am

re: #228 The Sanity Inspector

Sure. Israel still has universal health care, state-owned companies (recently in the decline) and a lot of other things that are at least associated with Socialism. And Israel has been a good ally to the US.

244 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:31:23am

re: #235 wozzablog

Democratic People's Republic of Korea... you seee, right there in the title... our friends :-)

/

Jon Stewart has a schtick about how you can tell how bad the country is by the number of lies in the official name of the country.

245 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:31:26am

re: #234 albusteve

maybe they should be...just look at NJ and CA for examples of spending abuses...and IL, MI etc

The Illinois General Assembly loves to tell local school districts "you have to [fill in the blank]" then gives them no money to actually do it (not to mention that the state tax cap laws keep their revenue stagnant). It's out of control.

246 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:31:52am

re: #236 SixDegrees

"Monica Conyers as Queen of the Morons" is a lot nearer and dearer to my heart, living in the Detroit area.

After she got pissed off at the judge for sentencing her to 36 months for extortion instead of the 48 months Federal prosecutors had asked for, she tried to "withdraw" her guilty plea, then said, "I may be guilty of extortion, but I never took a bribe!"

Thanks for clearing that up, Monica. Gives the Feds something else to prosecute you for.

She and John deserve each other. What a pair of knuckeheads.

247 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:31:59am

re: #220 garhighway

Did you read the definition of socialism from upthread? If so, is that what you mean when you use the word?

when I think of socialism, I think in relation to capitalism, free enterprise and an unequal outcome...not sure what you mean otherwise

248 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:32:02am

re: #242 Olsonist

I had to check in on what the Orange County Register had to say when the HRC bill passed. They called it The Europeanization of America, thanks to health care “reform” So I guess our cooking will improve.

Depends which part of Europe, with out luck we might only end up getting British food....

249 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:32:04am

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

People who oppose socialism often do not acknowledge the socialist origins of things they want and need.

And socialists sometimes claim credit afterward for things that were none of their doing. Libraries are a wonderful government service--but Melville Dewey and Andrew Carnegie were no socialists.

250 kingkenrod  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:32:06am

re: #238 jamesfirecat

Tell you what then, why don't we establish single payer?

Go for it.

251 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:32:19am

re: #221 albusteve

LRRPs where the best and toughest...you can be proud of him and I'm sure you are

I am. Although, he is the reason I hold anti-war views. I've seen first-hand what war does to the people that fight it. If you want to declare a war, it had damn well be worth it.

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:32:26am

re: #242 Olsonist

I had to check in on what the Orange County Register had to say when the HRC bill passed. They called it The Europeanization of America, thanks to health care “reform” So I guess our cooking will improve.

I'm not using all that heavy cream, I don't CARE if French women don't get fat.

253 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:33:23am

re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist

And rightly so. Like the fictional left/right axis, socialism and capitalism are not actually simply scalar values opposed to each other-- and socialism and democracy aren't opposed at all.

254 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:33:23am

re: #244 SanFranciscoZionist

he is trully teh Roxor.


;-)

"United States" Of America.

*Great* Britain......

(the list goes on)

255 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:34:04am

re: #247 albusteve

not sure what you mean otherwise

The accepted geo political definition.

256 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:34:27am

re: #243 Obdicut

Sure. Israel still has universal health care, state-owned companies (recently in the decline) and a lot of other things that are at least associated with Socialism. And Israel has been a good ally to the US.

and China has been a good economic partner

257 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:35:11am

re: #236 SixDegrees

"Monica Conyers as Queen of the Morons" is a lot nearer and dearer to my heart, living in the Detroit area.

After she got pissed off at the judge for sentencing her to 36 months for extortion instead of the 48 months Federal prosecutors had asked for, she tried to "withdraw" her guilty plea, then said, "I may be guilty of extortion, but I never took a bribe!"

Thanks for clearing that up, Monica. Gives the Feds something else to prosecute you for.

That's fantastic. Hadn't heard that one before.

258 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:35:16am

re: #245 Soap_Man

The Illinois General Assembly loves to tell local school districts "you have to [fill in the blank]" then gives them no money to actually do it (not to mention that the state tax cap laws keep their revenue stagnant). It's out of control.

The Legislators who do it get to posture about how they're "helping schools" and then they can shuffle any failures off onto someone else. It's a perfect politician's scam. Well, hopefully some of those assholes get voted out this year. I also hope we get rid of Pat "raise income taxes" Quinn.

259 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:35:23am

re: #254 wozzablog

he is trully teh Roxor.

;-)

"United States" Of America.

*Great* Britain...

(the list goes on)

Well it's only one lie in the name so the level of repression isn't so bad. Meanwhile when you have "The People's Democratic Republic of Congo..." I believe the advice they have for you is "hide".

260 Cineaste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:35:33am

re: #256 albusteve

and China has been a good economic partner

wouldn't mind them floating the yuan though...

261 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:35:49am

re: #251 Dante41

I had a friend who came back from Afghanistan/Iraq all messed up, and he's been making some progress with the help of an awesome ex-military support group, but it's a long, long road he has to go.

I hope your dad finds peace.

You might be interested in the book Dr. Excitement's Elixir of Longevity. It's a vastly underrated story about a Vietnam Vet desperately trying to cling to sanity.

262 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:36:22am

re: #247 albusteve

when I think of socialism, I think in relation to capitalism, free enterprise and an unequal outcome...not sure what you mean otherwise

I mean this:

re: #108 Olsonist

Socialism

Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization which advocate either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.

263 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:36:44am

re: #256 albusteve

and China has been a good economic partner

Not bad considering they have had a 1000 ICBM's pointed at them for 30 years...
We need to get over this bs and reset global economics...

264 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:37:14am

re: #258 Dark_Falcon

The Legislators who do it get to posture about how they're "helping schools" and then they can shuffle any failures off onto someone else. It's a perfect politician's scam. Well, hopefully some of those assholes get voted out this year. I also hope we get rid of Pat "raise income taxes" Quinn.

After some serious thought, I'm voting for Brady. I hate some of his SoCon stances, but I just can't deal with four more years of these assholes. I'd vote for a Golden Retriever before I will punch (D) on a state-wide ballot.

265 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:37:30am

re: #232 kingkenrod

I don't see how a mandate to purchase insurance falls in the power granted in "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises...". Is the mandate a tax, duty, impost or excise tax?

There's no mandate to purchase (or carry) insurance. But you get taxed at a different rate if you do rather than don't.

It's similar to having 3/5 of a vote.

266 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:37:39am

I was 6yrs old when LBJ started "the Great Society" programs and I don't think the level of hysteria we're seeing from my side(God Help Me!) was anything on the scale we see now over Health Care. I don't like it, but it passed and now we'll see. I do know some of the funding/math numbers don't seem to compute...ie. talking 500 billion or whatever from Medicare and putting it into this bill. But I will admit some of the folks on the right have gone into lala land I used to think was only inhabited by DKos folks and Freepers. Sheesh.

267 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:38:09am

re: #176 NJDhockeyfan

Do you support socialism?


Who are you? The Grand Blog Inquisitor, keeping records for the sake of ideological purity. Should I call you Torquemada?

As for your question, the answer is No. I support Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, public schools, parks, libraries and the like. But I would never want any hint of socialism in America.

Why does it matter given the frightful context of the word and its reckless use to fearmonger against political opponents? When Beck and Bachmann and the like run around screaming "socialism", you think that's in good faith?

268 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:38:31am

re: #262 garhighway

soooo, what - like, you are saying that it isn't an "either or" with that?.

Just believing in an increased roll for Government in HEalthcare does not automatically make the sitting President a asocialist, and that he has to believe in taking over the means of production too????? - get the hell out.

/

269 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:38:36am

re: #247 albusteve

when I think of socialism, I think in relation to capitalism, free enterprise and an unequal outcome...not sure what you mean otherwise

Or this: (from dictionary.com)

so·cial·ism [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.
procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.
(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

270 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:38:41am

re: #251 Dante41

I am. Although, he is the reason I hold anti-war views. I've seen first-hand what war does to the people that fight it. If you want to declare a war, it had damn well be worth it.

OTOH my brother in law was over there from 66 to 69 before he got sick and hung it up...he seemed to not mind being there and enjoyed his duty, entirely with combat units...you never know...his bottom line was that the whole gig was a waste of time and he is still bitter about the death toll, but he just moved on

271 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:38:55am

re: #265 SixDegrees

There's no mandate to purchase (or carry) insurance. But you get taxed at a different rate if you do rather than don't.

It's similar to having 3/5 of a vote.

Maybe not the best analogy you could use... the last group of people who ended up being counted for 3/5ths as much as someone else in the US didn't exactly have a choice in the matter...

272 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:39:14am

OT
Wildflower fans, landscape photogs, our California poppies are coming!!

273 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:39:41am

re: #257 torrentprime

That's fantastic. Hadn't heard that one before.

It's been a laugh a minute here in the Motor City lately. Looks like the Feds are circling around Kwame Kilpatrick, his dad and his wife, preparing to bring RICO charges. They've empaneled a Grand Jury, and the list of witnesses suggests a whole lotta people are gonna be in a whole lotta trouble here soon.

274 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:39:48am

re: #266 pingjockey

I do know some of the funding/math numbers don't seem to compute...ie. talking 500 billion or whatever from Medicare and putting it into this bill.

It's stopping the overpayments made to certain doctors. In other words, stopping fraud and abuse. You know, the stuff the GOP kept asking us to put in the bill?

(Not attacking you; just so tired of the fear-mongering)

275 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:39:58am

re: #261 Obdicut

I had a friend who came back from Afghanistan/Iraq all messed up, and he's been making some progress with the help of an awesome ex-military support group, but it's a long, long road he has to go.

I hope your dad finds peace.

You might be interested in the book Dr. Excitement's Elixir of Longevity. It's a vastly underrated story about a Vietnam Vet desperately trying to cling to sanity.

Thanks. He has come to peace with it, I think, but it still fucked him up in the head. No amount of time or money will ever give that piece of him back.

276 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:40:22am

re: #265 SixDegrees

Comparisons of this to slavery are stupid and odious.

277 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:40:41am

re: #271 jamesfirecat

Maybe not the best analogy you could use... the last group of people who ended up being counted for 3/5ths as much as someone else in the US didn't exactly have a choice in the matter...

Paying $100 a year for health care, being sold as chattel. 6, half dozen, right?

278 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:40:42am

re: #254 wozzablog

he is trully teh Roxor.

;-)

"United States" Of America.

*Great* Britain...

(the list goes on)

Britain used to be great, though--and America can unite when need be, as many an al-Qaeda terrorist discovered to his cost this past decade.

279 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:40:48am

re: #186 albusteve

Cheney!

Cheney was on the ballot in the last election?

It's Dick's policies I have trouble with. I won't relive past campaigns because my guy lost and I want sympathy.

280 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:41:06am

re: #271 jamesfirecat

Maybe not the best analogy you could use... the last group of people who ended up being counted for 3/5ths as much as someone else in the US didn't exactly have a choice in the matter...

Er...and what choice do either of the current parties have?

281 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:41:08am

re: #264 Soap_Man

After some serious thought, I'm voting for Brady. I hate some of his SoCon stances, but I just can't deal with four more years of these assholes. I'd vote for a Golden Retriever before I will punch (D) on a state-wide ballot.

Same here. If they Dem hadn't come up with a tax-and-spend liberal, I would have given that person a serious look. As it is, I'd much rather have a SoCon than one of them. It isn't even a question. We can't afford any more financial mismanagement, and Brady is the only one of the two of them who can deal with that problem. That gets my vote.

282 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:41:44am

re: #270 albusteve

OTOH my brother in law was over there from 66 to 69 before he got sick and hung it up...he seemed to not mind being there and enjoyed his duty, entirely with combat units...you never know...his bottom line was that the whole gig was a waste of time and he is still bitter about the death toll, but he just moved on

Different ways people cope, I guess. Still, War is Hell.

283 blueraven  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:41:44am

re: #186 albusteve

Cheney!

Carter!!

284 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:41:55am

re: #262 garhighway

what are you asking me?...if I accept this definition?

285 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:42:08am

re: #280 SixDegrees

Er...and what choice do either of the current parties have?

I think buy health insurance/get taxed more, is a choice, its a choice that may be limited by your circumstance (how much money you have) but it is a choice you can make.

I don't think people have a choice over who their parents were or what color their skin is.....

286 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:42:22am

re: #274 torrentprime
The damn FWA bird has been in DC forever, I don't think it's going to just stop. FWA=Fraud, waste and abuse. It's endemic to the system and I wish to hell we could get it cleaned up!

287 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:43:07am

re: #266 pingjockey

I was 6yrs old when LBJ started "the Great Society" programs and I don't think the level of hysteria we're seeing from my side(God Help Me!) was anything on the scale we see now over Health Care. I don't like it, but it passed and now we'll see. I do know some of the funding/math numbers don't seem to compute...ie. talking 500 billion or whatever from Medicare and putting it into this bill. But I will admit some of the folks on the right have gone into lala land I used to think was only inhabited by DKos folks and Freepers. Sheesh.

Welcome to the Internet age. I would imagine that the level of hysteria around those other controversial programs would have been similar.

288 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:43:12am

re: #283 blueraven

Carter!!

"Mississippi!"

"South Carolina!"

289 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:43:14am

re: #207 SixDegrees

Actually, we were hiding under our desks because of Communism, specifically Soviet Communism. Not Socialism.

Socialism was always viewed as Communism's retarded sibling.

I suppose that view isn't considered enlightened anymore.

Think back harder. You may remember that socialism (as in Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) was thrown around randomly and often conflated with the type of social welfare system we have. Ooooh, so scary!

290 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:44:15am

re: #287 CyanSnowHawk

Heh. You are probably right. Wonder what the uproar would've been over Social Security?!

291 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:44:17am

re: #284 albusteve

what are you asking me?...if I accept this definition?

Yes.

If we are going to have a discussion of who is or is not a socialist, it might be helpful to know what the word means.

292 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:44:30am

re: #273 SixDegrees

It's been a laugh a minute here in the Motor City lately. Looks like the Feds are circling around Kwame Kilpatrick, his dad and his wife, preparing to bring RICO charges. They've empaneled a Grand Jury, and the list of witnesses suggests a whole lotta people are gonna be in a whole lotta trouble here soon.

whoa...keep me posted...you don't beat RICO charges

293 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:44:35am

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

People who oppose socialism often do not acknowledge the socialist origins of things they want and need.

Bingo! "Keep your socialist hands off my Medicare, you damn Kenyan"

294 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:44:45am

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

As long as good people like you are willing to overlook the moral and ethical nastiness of the Socons out of a belief that they will behave better economically than a Democrat would, we are going to have massive problems in this country.

295 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:45:07am

re: #288 jamesfirecat

"Mississippi!"

"South Carolina!"

New Jersey!

Vermont!

(This is fun.)

296 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:45:31am

Done compiling. Back to work.

297 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:45:45am

re: #279 palomino

Cheney was on the ballot in the last election?

It's Dick's policies I have trouble with. I won't relive past campaigns because my guy lost and I want sympathy.

not interested

298 theheat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:46:12am

Caribou Barbie (Palin) and her ridiculous eyebrows net a reported $1 million per episode to yap about the state she quit as governor.

299 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:46:17am

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

No, you wouldn't have voted for a Democrat under any circumstance. Bush with Republican majorities wasn't anywhere near to balancing any budget he ever presented so your fiscal conservativism argument holds no water.

300 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:46:25am

re: #286 pingjockey

The damn FWA bird has been in DC forever, I don't think it's going to just stop. FWA=Fraud, waste and abuse. It's endemic to the system and I wish to hell we could get it cleaned up!

Hi Ping! Long time no see.. How the heck are you Stud?
/Braves vs. Mets on Preseason Baseball...
How are the brackets holding up?

301 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:46:30am

re: #289 palomino

Think back harder. You may remember that socialism (as in Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) was thrown around randomly and often conflated with the type of social welfare system we have. Ooooh, so scary!

No, I remember quite clearly that the enemy was Communism, while Socialism was something practiced by quite a few countries that were allies, albeit not particularly bright ones.

And I'm pretty sure that even Marx made a distinction between the two, although he probably didn't word it exactly the way I have.

302 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:46:33am

re: #280 SixDegrees

Er...and what choice do either of the current parties have?

This is getting offensive.

Slaves can simply address their representatives, vote for replacements, and run for office themselves if they don't like what their elected reps did, right? Oh wait - that's for people who aren't slaves. How long are you going to compare "my reps didn't do what I liked" to slavery?

303 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:47:01am

Totally OT...have a show on the History Channel called WWII in HD. Lots of personal stories. Kind of makes this HCR look small compared to wiping out Nazis and fascists.

304 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:47:06am

re: #288 jamesfirecat


Mornington Crescent

305 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:47:23am

re: #290 pingjockey

Heh. You are probably right. Wonder what the uproar would've been over Social Security?!

I think AARP would have been in favor.
/

306 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:47:29am

re: #291 garhighway

Yes.

If we are going to have a discussion of who is or is not a socialist, it might be helpful to know what the word means.

I don't care who is or who isn't a socialist...you have me confused with somebody else

307 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:48:04am

re: #297 albusteve

not interested

you would be if you counted...but you don't, so you're not.

308 badger1970  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:48:06am

re: #200 theheat

It may be the only hope Texas American schoolchildren have in the near future.

FIFY

309 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:48:14am

re: #301 SixDegrees

Socialism was something practiced by quite a few countries that were allies, albeit not particularly bright ones.

Ok.

I'm outta here.

310 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:48:40am

re: #300 HoosierHoops
I was a wuss. Didn't do any brackets. IIRC almost 5 million people did brackets on ESPN. None, not any are still correct. Mwahaha.

311 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:49:38am

re: #294 Obdicut

As long as good people like you are willing to overlook the moral and ethical nastiness of the Socons out of a belief that they will behave better economically than a Democrat would, we are going to have massive problems in this country.

I hear you, and I didn't vote for Brady in the primary. But the non-SoCons punched each other out and he won the primary. That means I either vote for the SoCon or the Tax-and-Spend Liberal. To me, that choice makes itself. I know Brady's problem, and I do not overlook them. But I have concluded that the problems that come with Quinn are much worse, hence my decision.

312 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:49:55am

re: #307 palomino

you would be if you counted...but you don't, so you're not.

rather than follow me around repeating yourself, you might post about your issues

313 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:50:11am

re: #305 CyanSnowHawk
My grandma was one of those who got Soc. Sec. without ever paying in a dime. Grandpa did and when he passed she got his. She worked as a waitress and they didn't take it out back in the day.

314 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:50:21am

re: #310 pingjockey

I was a wuss. Didn't do any brackets. IIRC almost 5 million people did brackets on ESPN. None, not any are still correct. Mwahaha.

Which is why the games are still played. (At least until the self-esteem cops come in and declare "everybody's a winner.")

315 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:50:54am

re: #310 pingjockey

I was a wuss. Didn't do any brackets. IIRC almost 5 million people did brackets on ESPN. None, not any are still correct. Mwahaha.

I got the Orangeman winning...
98% of all America picked Kansas..LOL

316 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:51:39am

re: #314 CyanSnowHawk
Gawd I hope not. I get a kick of how the crowds will always bet behind the lower seed against the higher seed.

317 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:51:45am

re: #292 albusteve

whoa...keep me posted...you don't beat RICO charges

It's almost certain that's what's going on. You need 6 people to bring RICO charges, and the Feds have shown an interest in at least 9, including Kwame, his wife, his mom, his dad, and several former aides. As you suggest, the Feds normally don't even bother convening a Grand Jury unless they're almost certain they can make - and win - a case.

No details have been released yet, but it's almost certain the old man was peddling influence for a fee while Kwame was mayor.

The Detroit Free Press is doing some serious digging on this.

318 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:52:23am

re: #302 torrentprime

This is getting offensive.

Slaves can simply address their representatives, vote for replacements, and run for office themselves if they don't like what their elected reps did, right? Oh wait - that's for people who aren't slaves. How long are you going to compare "my reps didn't do what I liked" to slavery?

As long as I feel like it. There's really nothing you can do about it.

319 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:52:25am

re: #301 SixDegrees

No, I remember quite clearly that the enemy was Communism, while Socialism was something practiced by quite a few countries that were allies, albeit not particularly bright ones.

And I'm pretty sure that even Marx made a distinction between the two, although he probably didn't word it exactly the way I have.

No? The S-word is in the freakin name of the USSR. In the US, socialism and communism were routinely conflated, by both left and right, in the domestic discourse of the Cold War. Why do you think American politicians so studiously avoided the label for themselves even while we were passing manifestly socialist programs?

Take a look at the rhetoric of McCarthy, Goldwater, Reagan, and even their Dem contemporaries--all denouncing socialism repeatedly.

320 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:52:27am

re: #311 Dark_Falcon

I hear you, and I didn't vote for Brady in the primary. But the non-SoCons punched each other out and he won the primary. That means I either vote for the SoCon or the Tax-and-Spend Liberal. To me, that choice makes itself. I know Brady's problem, and I do not overlook them. But I have concluded that the problems that come with Quinn are much worse, hence my decision.

Not knowing the players in that race, all I keep seeing is Brady Quinn, and thinking, isn't he in the NFL??

321 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:52:34am

re: #315 HoosierHoops
Yup. Don't know about the Orange. Isn't one of their starters hurt for this weeks game?

322 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:52:36am

re: #303 pingjockey

Kind of makes this HCR look small compared to wiping out Nazis and fascists.

That's because it IS small. This country has endured far worse than a health care bill passed by a narrow margin. The idea that HCR is going to doom the Republic is insulting when you consider everything America's gone though in its history.

323 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:52:39am

re: #306 albusteve

I don't care who is or who isn't a socialist...you have me confused with somebody else

You're right. My mistake.

324 theheat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:52:55am

re: #298 theheat

I think the show should be called, "How I Quit That Bitch, And Laughed All The Way To The Bank."

325 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:53:50am

re: #309 wozzablog

Ok.

I'm outta here.

Sorry you don't like what was being taught in the public schools 40 years ago. Not much I can do about it.

326 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:53:52am

re: #318 SixDegrees

As long as I feel like it. There's really nothing you can do about it.

Hey, if you want to beclown yourself by comparing one of humanity's greatest sins to a ban on pre-existing condition denials, rescissions, and lifetime payout limits, fire ahead.

327 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:53:56am

re: #312 albusteve

rather than follow me around repeating yourself, you might post about your issues

If you can count back three posts, you'll realize you followed me.

I'll discuss issues with people who count.

328 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:54:18am

Uh Oh.
[Link: news.blogs.cnn.com...]

Iran is helping train Taliban fighters within its borders, according to U.S. military and intelligence officials.

The United States has already said that the Taliban may be receiving limited training from the Iranians in Afghanistan, but the officials told CNN that training in the use of small arms was occurring within Iran.

"We've known for some time that Iran has been a source for both material and trained fighters for Taliban elements in Afghanistan," said Army Lt. Col. Edward Sholtis on Monday. But, he said, it is unknown whether that training is occurring with the support of Tehran, or it is "simply something that is happening beyond the government's control."

"For some years, Iran has supplied arms and munitions to the Afghan Taliban," said a U.S. intelligence official. "It has also helped conduct at least small-scale weapons training for the Taliban. There's reason to believe that some of this training has occurred in Iran."

329 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:54:21am

re: #320 Stanley Sea

Not knowing the players in that race, all I keep seeing is Brady Quinn, and thinking, isn't he in the NFL??

[smiles] Bill Brady is the Republican nominee for Governor of the state of Illinois this year. The Democratic incumbent is Pat Quinn.

330 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:54:24am

re: #319 palomino

No? The S-word is in the freakin name of the USSR. In the US, socialism and communism were routinely conflated, by both left and right, in the domestic discourse of the Cold War. Why do you think American politicians so studiously avoided the label for themselves even while we were passing manifestly socialist programs?

Take a look at the rhetoric of McCarthy, Goldwater, Reagan, and even their Dem contemporaries--all denouncing socialism repeatedly.

See SFZ's responses, above.

331 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:54:46am

re: #326 torrentprime

Hey, if you want to beclown yourself by comparing one of humanity's greatest sins to a ban on pre-existing condition denials, rescissions, and lifetime payout limits, fire ahead.

[yawn]

332 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:55:08am

I'll be honest. Polls like these immediately send me into silly-nit-picking mode.

Obama may indeed be the antichrist. Key word here is may. He may also be a unicorn, Polyphemus reborn, an alien...possibilities are endless.

Also, for the record, I do things that Hitler did, as well. I eat, breathe, metabolize food, etc. I just hope I don't do any of the things that Hitler does that made him Hitler.

//Silly nit picking mode off.

333 uncah91  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:55:22am

I think there is a current trend to conflate socialism with regulation.

Government regulation is NOT socialism. Somehow people seem to think that if a regulation is passed that "interferes" with what a business can or cannot do, that this is socialism.

Medicare is socialism, because the government effectively prevents private insurance for those over 65 (except as a supplement to Medicare).

But regulating what a private business can do, like, say preventing melamine from being sold as milk, isn't socialism. It just makes all the private industries play by the same rules.

334 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:55:26am

re: #331 SixDegrees

[yawn]

Wise choice.

335 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:55:30am

re: #322 Lidane
Someone said that yesterday. I agree. I don't agree with the Pres., Pelosi or Reid but the bill isn't going to kill the republic. We may end up bankrupt but hell we're damn there now and anyone under 40 should be very concerned about the debt load us boomers and congress are creating.

336 celticdragon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:55:51am

re: #21 Stanley Sea

They've seen it on Glenn Beck. That's all they need.

I see this poll as more an indication of what people are digesting from their media. No way they came up with this stuff without the constant fearmongering of Fox, Beck, Limbaugh et al.

Don't leave out churches.

My mother is absolutely convinced that Obama fits Scriptural prophecy from Revelations and Zacharia, and is the Antichrist.

I wish I was kidding. I try to avoid the subject.

337 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:56:43am

re: #298 theheat

Caribou Barbie (Palin) and her ridiculous eyebrows net a reported $1 million per episode to yap about the state she quit as governor.

It's actually a role I think she'll do well in. She looks fairly good and her 'you betcha' personality works for a TV hosting gig. It's a somewhat shallow role, but one she fills well.

338 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:56:44am

re: #334 torrentprime

Wise choice.

Maybe you could fire off an email to the list and tell them to start dogpiling.

339 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:56:51am

re: #322 Lidane

That's because it IS small. This country has endured far worse than a health care bill passed by a narrow margin. The idea that HCR is going to doom the Republic is insulting when you consider everything America's gone though in its history.

The assumption that HCR will doom us also assumes that it won't be changed as the problems become apparent. Not like we did with Social Security when it was obviously going bankrupt.

Uh oh.

340 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:57:31am

re: #323 garhighway

You're right. My mistake.

no problem

341 theheat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:58:08am

re: #337 Dark_Falcon

I can't wait until she interviews the current governor.

342 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:58:16am

re: #338 SixDegrees

Maybe you could fire off an email to the list and tell them to start dogpiling.

Nah, you stuck to your guns long enough to make the point clear.

343 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:58:26am

re: #327 palomino

If you can count back three posts, you'll realize you followed me.

I'll discuss issues with people who count.

Cheney!

344 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 10:59:27am

re: #298 theheat

Caribou Barbie (Palin) and her ridiculous eyebrows net a reported $1 million per episode to yap about the state she quit as governor.

That's over ten times what she'd make in a year as governor. Per episode.

Nice work, if you can get it.

345 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:00:03am

re: #332 EmmmieG

I'll be honest. Polls like these immediately send me into silly-nit-picking mode.

Obama may indeed be the antichrist. Key word here is may. He may also be a unicorn, Polyphemus reborn, an alien...possibilities are endless.

Also, for the record, I do things that Hitler did, as well. I eat, breathe, metabolize food, etc. I just hope I don't do any of the things that Hitler does that made him Hitler.

//Silly nit picking mode off.

I knew it. The 'G' stands for Godwin.

346 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:00:27am

re: #330 SixDegrees

See SFZ's responses, above.

His points are unrelated to mine. If you think the right hasn't used socialism in a bogeyman way or that there's no history of demonizing suspected socialists in America, then I can only tell you you're wrong and should read up on it.

347 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:01:33am

re: #319 palomino

No? The S-word is in the freakin name of the USSR.

Take a look at the rhetoric of McCarthy, Goldwater, Reagan, and even their Dem contemporaries--all denouncing socialism repeatedly.

And the Nazi's were the National Socialist Workers Party, but to say that they were anything but totalitarian is silly. Just because they say that they are something doesn't mean that they are.

Also: singin' the praises of Joe McCarthy is not a wise thing to do.

348 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:02:16am

re: #346 palomino

His points are unrelated to mine. If you think the right hasn't used socialism in a bogeyman way or that there's no history of demonizing suspected socialists in America, then I can only tell you you're wrong and should read up on it.

If you think what I've stated isn't what I was taught in school during and after the period this whole topic is actually discussing, you need to revisit my childhood.

Would you like the names of my elementary, middle and high school teachers?

349 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:02:28am

re: #343 albusteve

Cheney!

Obama! Clinton!

350 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:02:35am

re: #328 Rightwingconspirator

I wonder if this is actually true.

A bit of history. Iran shares a border with Afghanistan and had to deal with the problems stemming from the pre-911 civil war. Iran backed the Northern Alliance and fought against the US backed Taliban. We were backing the Taliban since they were essentially a unifying force and were supposedly anti-opium. But after 911 we switched sides and then backed the Northern Alliance. Briefly, the US and Iran were allies, until the Axis of Evil speech.

351 SpaceJesus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:02:47am

the internet mud flies at yahoo over obama

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

352 celticdragon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:03:21am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Tea partiers told to 'drop by' Tom Perriello's home

Fail

The comments from the right at Politico are really leaning towards going to a private residence and frakking with the people living there...just because.

Unbelievable fail.

Anybody showing up should be greeted at gunpoint.

353 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:03:45am

re: #335 pingjockey

Someone said that yesterday.

Heh. It might have been me. I've been harping on that point for days since all the apocalyptic doom and gloom talk about revolutions and civil war and how America is dead because HCR passed annoys me greatly. After everything we've been through as a nation, it's going to take a hell of a lot more than HCR to destroy the country.

I agree. I don't agree with the Pres., Pelosi or Reid but the bill isn't going to kill the republic. We may end up bankrupt but hell we're damn there now and anyone under 40 should be very concerned about the debt load us boomers and congress are creating.

I'm under 40 and have consigned myself to never seeing a dime of Social Security for all I pay into it. I also can't afford private health insurance and only have catastrophic coverage to fall back on in an emergency. Both parties spend money like drunk sailors on shore leave and neither has any claim to any fiscal responsibility or fiscal conservatism. I came to terms with that a long time ago.

That said, I'm an optimist at heart and think that we'll be fine in the long run, no matter what all the doomsayers are predicting. I think we're better than that.

354 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:04:47am

re: #298 theheat

Caribou Barbie (Palin) and her ridiculous eyebrows net a reported $1 million per episode to yap about the state she quit as governor.

They keep calling her prospective deal a reality show. But it sounds more like a travelogue of Alaska.

Reality shows usually have contestants and melodrama. Hers sounds more like Dateline: Alaska.

355 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:05:24am

re: #353 Lidane

It's easy to be an optimist when you live in Austin, though, eh? Especially on such a nice day?

I tell you what - folk outside the Lone Star State got no idea what they're missing out on. The Bluebonnets are up, those little orangey-red flowers are up, and life is good.

356 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:05:33am

re: #203 jamesfirecat

You better mean 2 I've played 1 like four times now, the last one of which earned me a big old pair of brass balls, hard, no vita chambers, no quick saves...

Yes, I went through Bioshock 1 many, many times. Still need to do a run 2 on Bioshock2.

357 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:05:37am

re: #249 The Sanity Inspector

And socialists sometimes claim credit afterward for things that were none of their doing. Libraries are a wonderful government service--but Melville Dewey and Andrew Carnegie were no socialists.

Well...

358 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:06:14am

re: #355 Guanxi88

It's easy to be an optimist when you live in Austin, though, eh? Especially on such a nice day?

I tell you what - folk outside the Lone Star State got no idea what they're missing out on. The Bluebonnets are up, those little orangey-red flowers are up, and life is good.

If only that cold front hadn't blown through...

359 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:06:54am

re: #348 SixDegrees

If you think what I've stated isn't what I was taught in school during and after the period this whole topic is actually discussing, you need to revisit my childhood.

Would you like the names of my elementary, middle and high school teachers?

I guess we got our signals crossed. I was talking about a reality somewhat larger than your childhood academic experience.

360 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:06:55am

re: #358 Dante41

If only that cold front hadn't blown through...

Yeah, but it's the price we pay, I suppose. Still, glad it's over now. It's all I can do to keep myself from going outside to perform pastoral dances.

361 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:07:15am

re: #286 pingjockey

The damn FWA bird has been in DC forever, I don't think it's going to just stop. FWA=Fraud, waste and abuse. It's endemic to the system and I wish to hell we could get it cleaned up!

Of course it's going to just stop. It takes legislation to do it. Fortunately, that's what just happened.

This doesn't make GOP fantasies that stopping FWA will magically solve our solvency concerns true, but we the money saved still counts, of course.

362 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:07:27am

re: #358 Dante41

If only that cold front hadn't blown through...

Some rain tomorrow, but we could use it, all things considered, and I'll take it any day.

363 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:07:38am

re: #357 SanFranciscoZionist

Well...

Great find!! I love the NYT archives.

364 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:07:40am

re: #361 torrentprime

Of course it's not going to just stop. It takes legislation to do it. Fortunately, that's what just happened.

This doesn't make GOP fantasies that stopping FWA will magically solve our solvency concerns true, but we the money saved still counts, of course.

PIMF

366 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:07:45am

re: #269 garhighway

Or this: (from dictionary.com)

so·cial·ism [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.
procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.
(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

Why am I thinking suddenly of the Monty Python skit where they have all the dead Communists completing on a game show?

367 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:08:19am

re: #272 Rightwingconspirator

OT
Wildflower fans, landscape photogs, our California poppies are coming!!

Those are blooming like mad along the creek near my house.

368 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:08:32am

re: #355 Guanxi88

It's easy to be an optimist when you live in Austin, though, eh? Especially on such a nice day?

Yeah, that definitely helps. Also, SXSW is over and the tourists are gone, so I can get around the city without wanting to kill people again. Hehe.

I tell you what - folk outside the Lone Star State got no idea what they're missing out on. The Bluebonnets are up, those little orangey-red flowers are up, and life is good.

It definitely is. I just don't have it in me to complain today. Yet. ;)

369 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:08:43am

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

Why am I thinking suddenly of the Monty Python skit where they have all the dead Communists completing on a game show?

My favorite bit though, is the guy who thinks he's Trotsky.

Trotsky! My lack of god!

370 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:08:46am

re: #353 Lidane

I'm under 40 and have consigned myself to never seeing a dime of Social Security for all I pay into it. I also can't afford private health insurance and only have catastrophic coverage to fall back on in an emergency. Both parties spend money like drunk sailors on shore leave and neither has any claim to any fiscal responsibility or fiscal conservatism. I came to terms with that a long time ago.

That said, I'm an optimist at heart and think that we'll be fine in the long run, no matter what all the doomsayers are predicting. I think we're better than that.

Honestly, it's difficult to say. Deficits are fantastically high, and there is no indication they will be coming down in the foreseeable future. And debt service is even higher, rapidly approaching 80% of GDP; if borrowing continues at the present pace, interest and principle payments will exceed GDP in just a few years. Long before that happens, the nation's bond rating will fall, increasing interest rates and adding even more debt to the pile.

We are borrowing at a completely unsustainable rate, and are doing nothing to stop it.

371 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:09:24am

re: #280 SixDegrees

Er...and what choice do either of the current parties have?

That's within throwing distance of...not a Godwin...I suggest we call it 'Harriet', after Tubman.

372 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:09:51am

re: #369 Guanxi88

My favorite bit though, is the guy who thinks he's Trotsky.

Trotsky! My lack of god!

Best dog name ever. The neighbors across the street had a dog named Trotsky.

373 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:10:08am

re: #370 SixDegrees

Honestly, it's difficult to say. Deficits are fantastically high, and there is no indication they will be coming down in the foreseeable future. And debt service is even higher, rapidly approaching 80% of GDP; if borrowing continues at the present pace, interest and principle payments will exceed GDP in just a few years. Long before that happens, the nation's bond rating will fall, increasing interest rates and adding even more debt to the pile.

We are borrowing at a completely unsustainable rate, and are doing nothing to stop it.

Except passing legislation to reduce the deficit and address one of the key runaway spending line items both now and in our future.
Aside from that, we've done nothing, true.

374 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:10:11am

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

New Jersey!

Vermont!

(This is fun.)

Wyoming! (Beat that!!)

375 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:10:22am

re: #355 Guanxi88

It's easy to be an optimist when you live in Austin, though, eh? Especially on such a nice day?

I tell you what - folk outside the Lone Star State got no idea what they're missing out on. The Bluebonnets are up, those little orangey-red flowers are up, and life is good.

Austin, maybe. But I lived in Houston for 18 years, and you can keep that hellhole. Heat, humidity, mosquitoes, cockroaches and a million good ole boys who think screaming "baby killer" on the House floor is an act of patriotism.

376 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:10:35am

re: #374 SanFranciscoZionist

Wyoming! (Beat that!!)

Detroit?

377 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:10:40am

re: #353 Lidane
Hey now! I was a drunken sailor and I spent my money, not other peoples money. That's the difference between drunk squids and congress!

378 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:11:02am

re: #352 celticdragon

The comments from the right at Politico are really leaning towards going to a private residence and frakking with the people living there...just because.

Unbelievable fail.

Anybody showing up should be greeted at gunpoint.

That's the right spirit, but you should never start off pointing the gun. That's often considered 'menacing' and if that was recorded, you could be arrested. Since it is your property, you could greet them firearm in hand, but it should be pointed towards the ground, absent a clear demonstration of hostile intent.

379 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:11:07am

re: #373 torrentprime

Except passing legislation to reduce the deficit and address one of the key runaway spending line items both now and in our future.
Aside from that, we've done nothing, true.

What exactly did we pass that will reduce the deficit?

380 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:11:11am

re: #301 SixDegrees

No, I remember quite clearly that the enemy was Communism, while Socialism was something practiced by quite a few countries that were allies, albeit not particularly bright ones.

And I'm pretty sure that even Marx made a distinction between the two, although he probably didn't word it exactly the way I have.

Marx saw it as a transitional stage.

381 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:11:39am

re: #354 palomino

They keep calling her prospective deal a reality show. But it sounds more like a travelogue of Alaska.

Reality shows usually have contestants and melodrama. Hers sounds more like Dateline: Alaska.

Also, in reality shows as the genre has come to be defined, the subjects don't typically get paid any sort of upfront salary. Hence their enormous popularity with the networks - very low production costs compared with any sort of program that requires paying actual talent.

I suppose what they're going to do is borrow the hand-held camera look. But it doesn't sound like reality to me at all. It sounds like it'll be extremely scripted.

382 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:11:46am

re: #374 SanFranciscoZionist

Wyoming! (Beat that!!)

WOLVERINES!

Er, sorry. Couldn't resist. ;)

383 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:12:00am

re: #379 CyanSnowHawk

What exactly did we pass that will reduce the deficit?

A little thing we've been kicking around for awhile: Health Care Reform, signed this morning.

384 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:12:06am

re: #379 CyanSnowHawk

What exactly did we pass that will reduce the deficit?

more fantasy

385 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:12:08am

re: #372 Olsonist

Today, I saw a dog,
Yes, a dog.
Talking to a pig,
Yes, a pig.
They were on the pavement,
Discussing Trotsky.
Not brotsky or crotsky or drotsky or frotsky.
But Trotsky.

-Rick, The Young Ones

386 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:12:17am

re: #375 palomino

Austin, maybe. But I lived in Houston for 18 years, and you can keep that hellhole. Heat, humidity, mosquitoes, cockroaches and a million good ole boys who think screaming "baby killer" on the House floor is an act of patriotism.

Um...when was the last time you lived in Houston? The parts about it being built in a swamp I'll grant you, but you do know that it both just elected a lesbian mayor and provided the best hope for the Democrats retaking the Governor's Mansion since Ann Richards, right?

387 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:12:29am

re: #372 Olsonist

Best dog name ever. The neighbors across the street had a dog named Trotsky.

Oddly enough, that was my great-grandmother's nickname for me.

388 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:13:05am

re: #384 albusteve

more fantasy

Or studies-bolstered plans. Like science, referred to as "fantasy" "conspiracy" "marxist plots", etc by the GOP.

389 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:13:08am

re: #383 torrentprime
I'll believe that when it happens. NO entitlement program has ever reduced a deficit.

390 Olsonist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:13:14am

re: #382 Lidane

X-Men.

391 drcordell  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:13:27am

re: #384 albusteve

more fantasy

Well, it was the best bill we could produce seeing as one political party just threw a temper tantrum for the past 12 months instead of trying to legislate.

392 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:13:29am

re: #375 palomino

But I lived in Houston for 18 years, and you can keep that hellhole. Heat, humidity, mosquitoes, cockroaches and a million good ole boys who think screaming "baby killer" on the House floor is an act of patriotism.

I lived there for 17 years, from the time I was 8 until I was 25. I agree-- they can keep Houston. I'll never go back there, except possibly for a high school reunion or two. I sure as hell won't live there again. =P

393 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:13:31am

re: #374 SanFranciscoZionist

Wyoming! (Beat that!!)

Utah!

394 Altermite  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:13:32am

Is it me, or has the birther ratio dropped a little from previously? I think it may have.

395 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:13:36am

re: #383 torrentprime

A little thing we've been kicking around for awhile: Health Care Reform, signed this morning.

You really believe that? I seriously thought you forgot the sarc tag.

396 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:14:24am

re: #381 SixDegrees

Also, in reality shows as the genre has come to be defined, the subjects don't typically get paid any sort of upfront salary. Hence their enormous popularity with the networks - very low production costs compared with any sort of program that requires paying actual talent.

I suppose what they're going to do is borrow the hand-held camera look. But it doesn't sound like reality to me at all. It sounds like it'll be extremely scripted.

Hell, Palin better be scripted, can't imagine listening to her word salad for an hour.

397 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:14:42am

re: #381 SixDegrees

True, I think it will be more like Sarah doing her impression of Oprah. The unflattering stuff you see in most reality shows won't be there.

398 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:14:51am

re: #386 Dante41

Um...when was the last time you lived in Houston? The parts about it being built in a swamp I'll grant you, but you do know that it both just elected a lesbian mayor and provided the best hope for the Democrats retaking the Governor's Mansion since Ann Richards, right?

They have a special mayor for the lesbians? How progressive.

399 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:14:52am

re: #336 celticdragon

Don't leave out churches.

My mother is absolutely convinced that Obama fits Scriptural prophecy from Revelations and Zacharia, and is the Antichrist.

I wish I was kidding. I try to avoid the subject.

Has she ever thought this about previous presidents, or other people?

400 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:14:56am

re: #389 pingjockey

I'll believe that when it happens. NO entitlement program has ever reduced a deficit.

That's fine. Skepticism is a good trait when evaluating politics. But claiming that every number ever generated by everyone in Washington must ipso facto be a lie doesn't make the numbers go away.

401 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:14:58am

re: #373 torrentprime


yes, nothing to reduce the deficit at all.

Nothing to see here - move along now...nothing to see here

402 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:15:45am

re: #373 torrentprime

Except passing legislation to reduce the deficit and address one of the key runaway spending line items both now and in our future.
Aside from that, we've done nothing, true.

Remains to be seen. As noted earlier, quite a few of the "savings" already appear headed for the wayside. And still, nothing whatsoever has been done to eliminate incessant, never-ending borrowing or adding to ever-increasing debt. The nation is currently on a collision course with insolvency, and it's going to hit that wall in a very short amount of time.

403 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:15:49am

The lesbian teen who wanted to wear a tux and bring her girlfriend to the prom has not been invited to the alternative prom either.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Nice.
(why do I the feeling that the "alternate" prom is mostly white, well-off and full of jocks and cheerleaders? Yeah, high school was a bitter experience for me, why do you ask?)

IMNSHO Prom was a night for the "haves" to point at us "outcasts & losers" and remind us, once again, how much high school sucked. I get her point and I support her lawsuit because these schools in the South need to be pulled into the 21st century, but my advice to her is to do like Beth Ditto and get the hell out as soon as she can.
Take that scholarship and shake the dust of that small town off her feet and never look back. (except to visit family and go to her class reunion and shove her successful happy life in the face of her classmates. no I don't attend class reuions either...if I did not like this people when I was a teenager why would I want to waste time with them now?)

404 drcordell  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:15:50am

re: #395 CyanSnowHawk

You really believe that? I seriously thought you forgot the sarc tag.

Cyan, you do realize that we have had universal health care in this country the whole time. It's simply paid for by you and me and everyone else with insurance in an ass-backwards way. Reimbursing the hospital for the money they lose on uninsured ER patients by jacking up the rates for everyone else who can pay. That is how we are saving money. Because now those people will be able to have insurance.

405 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:15:59am

re: #398 CyanSnowHawk

They have a special mayor for the lesbians? How progressive.

SMACK!

406 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:15:59am

re: #357 SanFranciscoZionist

Well...

Touche'.

407 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:16:06am

re: #395 CyanSnowHawk

You really believe that? I seriously thought you forgot the sarc tag.

Accepting that we've started to fix through legislation previous unsustainable legislation is a hard bridge to cross for some.

408 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:16:45am

re: #397 palomino

I'm curious about the upcoming Marion Barry reality show.

409 celticdragon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:16:52am

re: #378 Dark_Falcon

That's the right spirit, but you should never start off pointing the gun. That's often considered 'menacing' and if that was recorded, you could be arrested. Since it is your property, you could greet them firearm in hand, but it should be pointed towards the ground, absent a clear demonstration of hostile intent.

Fair enough. I'll start by pointing with the bayonet from my brand new Brown Bess musket. The rest comes later.

410 theheat  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:17:06am

re: #397 palomino

And if they run out of shows for Alaska, they can always point their cameras toward Russia.
//

411 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:17:14am

re: #400 torrentprime
I didn't say the numbers were a lie. I am extremely skeptical. Just like that mess of a bailout or stimulus package that hasn't done diddly squat.
I blame both sides of the aisle for that FUBAR.

412 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:17:30am

re: #386 Dante41

Um...when was the last time you lived in Houston? The parts about it being built in a swamp I'll grant you, but you do know that it both just elected a lesbian mayor and provided the best hope for the Democrats retaking the Governor's Mansion since Ann Richards, right?

I'll admit I was pleasantly surprised when Annise Parker won. That was pretty cool.

As for Bill White, I have a small sliver of hope that he can win, but I've resigned myself to Rick Perry staying in office until he quits to run for President, retires, or is indicted for something. I'm not holding my breath.

413 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:17:33am

re: #402 SixDegrees

And still, nothing whatsoever has been done to eliminate incessant, never-ending borrowing or adding to ever-increasing debt. The nation is currently on a collision course with insolvency, and it's going to hit that wall in a very short amount of time.

Except what we just did.

The situation you refer to is a totality of the circumstances issue: when you look at all we spend on everything, etc. We just started to address one of those items. You can claim it won't work; you can't claim we ignored the issue.

414 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:17:43am

re: #408 Mad Al-Jaffee

I'm curious about the upcoming Marion Barry reality show.

Dammit!
Wrong pol.
When do I get my all Palin, all the time, show?

415 celticdragon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:17:45am

re: #399 SanFranciscoZionist

Has she ever thought this about previous presidents, or other people?

No.

My folks went off the reservation when Obama got the nomination.

I talk about anything but politics with them.

416 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:18:03am

re: #398 CyanSnowHawk

They have a special mayor for the lesbians? How progressive.

My bad grammar notwithstanding, you knew what I meant.

417 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:18:48am

re: #411 pingjockey

Just like that mess of a bailout or stimulus package that hasn't done diddly squat.
I blame both sides of the aisle for that FUBAR.

I am sure those financial analysts who received their full annual bonus would beg to differ the bill did nothing. ;)

418 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:18:55am

re: #409 celticdragon

Fair enough. I'll start by pointing with the bayonet from my brand new Brown Bess musket. The rest comes later.

Even better would be a more modern rifle, held at the ready with the barrel pointed to the ground. Just my two cents.

419 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:19:07am

Later folks, off to get some lunch.

420 drcordell  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:19:15am

re: #413 torrentprime

Except what we just did.

The situation you refer to is a totality of the circumstances issue: when you look at all we spend on everything, etc. We just started to address one of those items. You can claim it won't work; you can't claim we ignored the issue.

I guess he much prefers the "principled opposition" of screaming "baby killer" rather than trying to actually address the problems facing our nation.

421 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:19:21am

re: #370 SixDegrees

And debt service is even higher, rapidly approaching 80% of GDP;

The US GDP for 2008 was roughly $14.4 trillion.

The interest on US Govt debt was roughly $240 billion, or 9.5 % of public spending. (And a whole lot less than 80% of $14.4 trillion.)

422 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:19:28am

re: #386 Dante41

Um...when was the last time you lived in Houston? The parts about it being built in a swamp I'll grant you, but you do know that it both just elected a lesbian mayor and provided the best hope for the Democrats retaking the Governor's Mansion since Ann Richards, right?

and Dallas nearly elected a gay mayor just months earlier. The Democrat put up a good showing, but lost 58/42 to the Republican who also ran a good, clean campaign. I voted for Leppert (R) but the other guy woudln't have bothered me. OTOH, Our last mayor, Laura "No Sports in my town" Miller was the very devil.

Let's see some fufu librull places match that! It's kind of like how most of Europe looked down their noses at the US for being sooo racist and provincial, then how many black guys with foreign names have been prime ministers there?

Mangling a Kissenger quote again - there are Texans, then there are Texans.

423 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:19:30am

re: #417 torrentprime
Good one!

424 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:19:43am

re: #396 Stanley Sea

Hell, Palin better be scripted, can't imagine listening to her word salad for an hour.

All of her appearances are now very tightly controlled and orchestrated; I would certainly not expect a television show to be any different.

425 celticdragon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:20:37am

re: #418 Dark_Falcon

I have an honest to badness Tommy Gun and an SKS modified to take unaltered Kalashnikov 30 rnd mags...but the bayonet on my Bess is over a foot long. It looks real, real nasty... ;)

426 badger1970  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:21:10am

re: #424 SixDegrees

There's nothing real about reality shows.

427 celticdragon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:21:35am

Off to chemistry lab.

Bye for now :)

428 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:21:43am

re: #386 Dante41

Um...when was the last time you lived in Houston? The parts about it being built in a swamp I'll grant you, but you do know that it both just elected a lesbian mayor and provided the best hope for the Democrats retaking the Governor's Mansion since Ann Richards, right?

I was born and raised there, and go back at least twice a year. The lesbian mayor surprised me, as did Obama's narrow victory in Harris County (Houston) last year.

But it's still a hellhole. All the political progress in the world won't change the miserable weather and bug problems. And it's the fattest city in the fattest country in the history of the world--gynormous freaking fat people everywhere. A result of great food, and nothing to do but sit in air conditioned rooms all day. I'm not joking, studies are done annually on obesity and Houston "wins" almost every year.

429 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:21:57am

re: #422 keloyd

and Dallas nearly elected a gay mayor just months earlier. The Democrat put up a good showing, but lost 58/42 to the Republican who also ran a good, clean campaign. I voted for Leppert (R) but the other guy woudln't have bothered me. OTOH, Our last mayor, Laura "No Sports in my town" Miller was the very devil.

Let's see some fufu librull places match that! It's kind of like how most of Europe looked down their noses at the US for being sooo racist and provincial, then how many black guys with foreign names have been prime ministers there?

Mangling a Kissenger quote again - there are Texans, then there are Texans.

I know. I was just pointing out how ridiculous it was to include Houston with the likes of the idiot who screamed out "baby killer!".

430 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:22:04am

re: #363 Stanley Sea

Great find!! I love the NYT archives.

The whole world at your fingertips...

431 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:22:59am

re: #369 Guanxi88

My favorite bit though, is the guy who thinks he's Trotsky.

Trotsky! My lack of god!

"Well done, Karl! You're on your way to your lounge suite!"

432 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:23:26am

re: #372 Olsonist

Best dog name ever. The neighbors across the street had a dog named Trotsky.

Awww.

433 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:24:04am

re: #392 Lidane

I lived there for 17 years, from the time I was 8 until I was 25. I agree-- they can keep Houston. I'll never go back there, except possibly for a high school reunion or two. I sure as hell won't live there again. =P

Problem is, my whole family lives there, so I have to go back regularly. Sad story: years before I was born my parents considered moving farther west, to AZ or CA, but they settled on Houston. They told me and my brothers about this years later, after we were all adults. We still haven't forgiven them.

434 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:25:08am

re: #431 SanFranciscoZionist

I seriously wonder what percentage of the citizens in the US (or the UK for that matter) would be able to identify who Trotsky was. Not that the percentages able to identify who Lenin, Stalin, or Mao were would necessarily be that much higher.

435 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:26:21am

re: #404 drcordell

Cyan, you do realize that we have had universal health care in this country the whole time. It's simply paid for by you and me and everyone else with insurance in an ass-backwards way. Reimbursing the hospital for the money they lose on uninsured ER patients by jacking up the rates for everyone else who can pay. That is how we are saving money. Because now those people will be able to have insurance.

Forgive me if I don't believe that the HCR will magically remove fraud, waste, and abuse caused by people gaming the system.

436 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:26:24am

re: #426 badger1970

There's nothing real about reality shows.

Except that they're really popular!

437 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:26:28am

re: #398 CyanSnowHawk

They have a special mayor for the lesbians? How progressive.

Well, Harvey Milk was 'the mayor of Castro Street', but I think in this case the mayor is a lesbian who happens to be everyone's mayor.

438 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:26:55am

re: #403 webevintage

And people wonder why young adults leave towns like this in droves. Partly because there aren't jobs, and partly due to this kind of bigotry.

439 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:27:14am

re: #435 CyanSnowHawk

Forgive me if I don't believe that the HCR will magically remove fraud, waste, and abuse caused by people gaming the system.

A good thing no one is advancing that proposition, then.

When you disagree with something hcr proponents actually believe, let us know.

440 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:28:20am

re: #408 Mad Al-Jaffee

I'm curious about the upcoming Marion Barry reality show.

"The bitch set me up!"

441 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:28:29am

re: #416 Dante41

My bad grammar notwithstanding, you knew what I meant.

Laugh damn you, laugh!

442 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:28:57am

re: #408 Mad Al-Jaffee

I'm curious about the upcoming Marion Barry reality show.

Maybe not as wholesome, but a hell of a lot more fun than Palin showing off the giant iceberg she used to govern.

443 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:29:00am

re: #413 torrentprime

Except what we just did.

The situation you refer to is a totality of the circumstances issue: when you look at all we spend on everything, etc. We just started to address one of those items. You can claim it won't work; you can't claim we ignored the issue.

Deficits are projected to remain two to three times higher than the largest deficits of the past for at least the next ten years, adding enormously to the nation's total debt, and to it's debt payments.It is a dramatic increase in deficit spending by any measure, relative to the past, and as noted debt service payments will shortly begin to approach total GDP, and will become unsustainable well before reaching that point, if they haven't already.

I am not at all sanguine about the future. Spending needs to be cut, and cut drastically. Soon. Now.

444 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:30:01am

re: #408 Mad Al-Jaffee

I'm curious about the upcoming Marion Barry reality show.

A friend of mine was once called by her gandmother, who yelled into the phone, "Do you know what your people have done?" The people in question were African Americans in general, and what they had done was reelect Marion Barry.

We have never fully established why it was 'your people' rather than 'our people'.

445 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:30:06am

re: #294 Obdicut

As long as good people like you are willing to overlook the moral and ethical nastiness of the Socons out of a belief that they will behave better economically than a Democrat would, we are going to have massive problems in this country.

You don't live in Illinois. (or maybe you do. I don't know.)

Look, his socon stances will have little impact here. The public and the general assembly wont have it. It's a moot point. The most important issue in this state, by far, is fixing the mess of a budget and the horribly dysfunctional state government.

I had to give this a lot of thought. A lot. But I just can't vote for another Democrat for Gov. Can't. Do. It.

446 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:30:51am

re: #411 pingjockey

I didn't say the numbers were a lie. I am extremely skeptical. Just like that mess of a bailout or stimulus package that hasn't done diddly squat.
I blame both sides of the aisle for that FUBAR.

The bailouts and stimulus were bad, I agree.

But for both Bush and Obama, wasn't the alternative even worse: sit back, watch the entire economy collapse, and get called Herbert Hoover for the rest of your life.

447 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:30:56am

re: #443 SixDegrees

Deficits are projected to remain two to three times higher than the largest deficits of the past for at least the next ten years, adding enormously to the nation's total debt, and to it's debt payments.It is a dramatic increase in deficit spending by any measure, relative to the past, and as noted debt service payments will shortly begin to approach total GDP, and will become unsustainable well before reaching that point, if they haven't already.

I am not at all sanguine about the future. Spending needs to be cut, and cut drastically. Soon. Now.

I agree. [snaps fingers, points to hcr bill] We just cut planned spending for the next decade+. Not enough, but a start.

Glad we agree on the goal, even if you don't believe that what we just did will move in that direction. Time will tell, indeed.

448 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:31:00am

re: #426 badger1970

There's nothing real about reality shows.

They really suck. Otherwise, yes.

449 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:31:29am

re: #443 SixDegrees

and as noted debt service payments will shortly begin to approach total GDP,

Wrong.

The US GDP for 2008 was roughly $14.4 trillion.

The interest on US Govt debt was roughly $240 billion, or 9.5 % of public spending. (And a whole lot less than 80% of $14.4 trillion.)

450 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:31:49am

re: #433 palomino

Problem is, my whole family lives there, so I have to go back regularly.

Lucky for me, most of my family is in San Antonio, Laredo, or down in the RGV. In my senior year of high school, my mom divorced my stepfather and she got the hell out of Houston for good once I graduated. I stayed for a few extra years because I thought of it as home, but once I moved here to Austin, I changed my mind.

I still have my childhood and high school friends in Houston, and a lot of memories, both good and bad, but that's what Facebook is for. Heh. I don't have to visit the city at all except when there's a reunion or a wedding or something.

Sad story: years before I was born my parents considered moving farther west, to AZ or CA, but they settled on Houston. They told me and my brothers about this years later, after we were all adults. We still haven't forgiven them.

Ouch. You have my sympathy.

451 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:32:15am

re: #444 SanFranciscoZionist

A friend of mine was once called by her gandmother, who yelled into the phone, "Do you know what your people have done?" The people in question were African Americans in general, and what they had done was reelect Marion Barry.

We have never fully established why it was 'your people' rather than 'our people'.

Same reason why the girls are my children when they throw things from the loft, or why Dudeleh is my son when he knocks down dinner from the table.

452 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:33:07am

re: #442 palomino

Maybe not as wholesome, but a hell of a lot more fun than Palin showing off the giant iceberg she used to govern.

Let's not get ugly, now...

453 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:33:36am

re: #428 palomino

I was born and raised there, and go back at least twice a year. The lesbian mayor surprised me, as did Obama's narrow victory in Harris County (Houston) last year.

But it's still a hellhole. All the political progress in the world won't change the miserable weather and bug problems. And it's the fattest city in the fattest country in the history of the world--gynormous freaking fat people everywhere. A result of great food, and nothing to do but sit in air conditioned rooms all day. I'm not joking, studies are done annually on obesity and Houston "wins" almost every year.

I was born and raised there myself. Hell, I go to school at TAMUG down in Galveston. I am not going to dispute that in the summer it is a muggy hellhole, and that our populace is pretty sedimentary.

However, saying that it is filled with dumb country hicks is an insult I shall not stand for, sir!

454 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:33:40am

re: #447 torrentprime

I agree. [snaps fingers, points to hcr bill] We just cut planned spending for the next decade+. Not enough, but a start.

Glad we agree on the goal, even if you don't believe that what we just did will move in that direction. Time will tell, indeed.

Somehow, saying one day, "We're gonna spend this outrageous amount!" then saying a few days later, "OK, we decided to spend this slightly smaller outrageous amount!" doesn't strike me as prudent economics.

455 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:34:16am

re: #449 garhighway

Wrong.

The US GDP for 2008 was roughly $14.4 trillion.

The interest on US Govt debt was roughly $240 billion, or 9.5 % of public spending. (And a whole lot less than 80% of $14.4 trillion.)

I read it the first time it was posted. It's not what I said.

456 blueraven  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:34:23am

re: #435 CyanSnowHawk

Forgive me if I don't believe that the HCR will magically remove fraud, waste, and abuse caused by people gaming the system.

Not exactly sure of the amount, but there is a provision to hire private investigators to go after fraud. I think it is 250,000,000 and that the idea came from the republican side.

457 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:34:40am

re: #446 palomino

The bailouts and stimulus were bad, I agree.

But for both Bush and Obama, wasn't the alternative even worse: sit back, watch the entire economy collapse, and get called Herbert Hoover for the rest of your life.

"Russian man I know, his American fiancee make him change name to Gerbert Goover. For honor. Next election, Gerbert Goover don't win. How he feel then, that Russian fellow? Be the same with you."

458 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:34:47am

re: #446 palomino

The bailouts and stimulus were bad, I agree.

But for both Bush and Obama, wasn't the alternative even worse: sit back, watch the entire economy collapse, and get called Herbert Hoover for the rest of your life.

And you knew who you were then
Girls were girls and men were men
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again

459 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:35:00am

re: #454 SixDegrees

Somehow, saying one day, "We're gonna spend this outrageous amount!" then saying a few days later, "OK, we decided to spend this slightly smaller outrageous amount!" doesn't strike me as prudent economics.

Well, the public option would help us spend less, as would single-payer, but the conservatives (GOP and Dem) weren't ready for it. You support those ideas, one might assume, in the name of fiscal conservatism?

460 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:35:23am

re: #453 Dante41

I was born and raised there myself. Hell, I go to school at TAMUG down in Galveston. I am not going to dispute that in the summer it is a muggy hellhole, and that our populace is pretty sedimentary.

SNIP

The replacement oil deposits for the future have to come from somewhere...

j/k ;)

461 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:35:25am

re: #453 Dante41

I was born and raised there myself. Hell, I go to school at TAMUG down in Galveston. I am not going to dispute that in the summer it is a muggy hellhole, and that our populace is pretty sedimentary.

However, saying that it is filled with dumb country hicks is an insult I shall not stand for, sir!

Where did Palamino use the term "country hicks?"

462 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:36:20am

Ooh, ooh! Everyone who thinks we should copy Europe, please copy this!

463 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:36:40am

re: #458 Mad Al-Jaffee

And you knew who you were then
Girls were girls and men were men
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again

As a doorstop?

464 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:36:53am
# 67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist.
# 57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim

This explains why no sane GOP politician has stepped forward to comprehensively denounce the crazies: They have been aware for some time that the lunatic fringe is now the lunatic mainstream.
John McCain, national hero and former presidential candidate, may actually lose his primary to non-entity JD Hayworth. By any reasonable standard, outing Hayworth as a birther should have made it a slam-dunk for McCain. Instead, the opposite has happened.

This newly radicalized GOP is not too likely to win a majority in Congress this fall. It is not impossible, however, given the traditional mid-term gains by the opposition---- and the right set of foul-ups and missteps by the Democrats. That is truly a frightening prospect, since this would not be a return to Republican majorities of the past, but an entirely new majority, one based on ideologies and movements that were suppressed or marginalized during previous periods of Republican dominance.

465 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:36:54am

re: #457 SanFranciscoZionist

"Russian man I know, his American fiancee make him change name to Gerbert Goover. For honor. Next election, Gerbert Goover don't win. How he feel then, that Russian fellow? Be the same with you."

I know this fellow. Garvard, class of vocem godu, no?

466 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:37:45am

re: #455 SixDegrees

I read it the first time it was posted. It's not what I said.

Then perhaps you could clarify. When you say "debt service", I think "interest payments on the debt". What do you mean?

467 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:38:08am

No wonder we have sore feet. Walking upright for 3.6 million years will do that to ya!

[Link: www.wired.com...]

468 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:38:11am

re: #463 SanFranciscoZionist

As a doorstop?

Outta my chair, meathead!

469 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:38:27am

re: #443 SixDegrees

on what?...................

the NEA, pet projects, pork & the like?

Or stuff that will actually have a real impact on the deficit like the military, education, social security, medicare, medicaid..........

And if so - good luck in finding a senate or house majority to do so in pretty much any circumstance under either party.

Healthcare spending across the entire economy is approaching 20% of GDP with no sign of slowing - until the back end costs and administrative costs are put in check. That can only be done by front ending access to healthcare for all so they don't turn up in the emergency room or need long hospital stays or more exspensive scrips.

Addressing front end healthcare access now - will markedly reduce the fture costs of healthcare across the whole economy adding extra wiggle room for the aging population..

470 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:38:31am

re: #467 Rightwingconspirator

No wonder we have sore feet. Walking upright for 3.6 million years will do that to ya!

[Link: www.wired.com...]

Bad backs, too.

471 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:38:45am

re: #458 Mad Al-Jaffee

And you knew who you were then
Girls were girls and men were men
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again

Gee our old La Salle ran great

/never heard that one right when the show was on.

472 Nanook37  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:39:17am

re: #137 Lidane

And John Kerry was called the most liberal voting senator in 2004, at the same time that he was the Democratic nominee for President. Personally, I thought the result was hilarious considering that there's an actual Socialist in the Senate in Bernie Sanders.

Any poll that tries to make the case that somehow Obama or Kerry are to the left of Sanders-- or hell, even to the left of Feingold-- on anything is, quite frankly, full of shit.

The group that does those statistics the National Journal always says that they are inaccurate in election years because the candidates are always running around and tend to miss lots of votes and often only vote on hot button issues which drives the democratic candidates more liberal and the Republican candidate more conservative in the rankings.

473 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:39:32am

Getting back to the original subject of this thread, 'bad craziness' is the nature of the beast in politics today. When Democrats win big, the right throws tantrums and is generally out of line. When Republicans were getting their way year after year, the pollsters got (nearly) equally disturbing results, but for the left wing. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I still believe a better title is 'bad craziness also' or 'our vs. their bad craziness' or the 'yin and yang of bad craziness'.

A smaller, but still pretty high % of Democrats thought W knew of the 9/11 attacks in advance.
There were only a little bit fewer truthers in recent years than birthers today.

I wish I didn't have to say this, but my point is in no way intended as a defense of recent wingnuttery, but an attempt to give it context.

474 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:39:57am

Health Care Reform Leads to Threats

The same day a brick crashed through her Niagara Falls office, Rep. Louise Slaughter (D) says her staff discovered an assassination threat aimed at her family members. The Democratic headquarters in Rochester was also targeted.

No one was inside when the brick was hurled through the Democratic Patry Headquarters on University Avenue. Attached was a note quoting conservative Barry Goldwater: “Exremism [sic] in defense of liberty is no vice”.

The note was the only clue -- until now.

“I’m advocating broken windows. I’m advocating vandalism," says Mike Vanderboegh. We spoke to him by phone from his home in Pinson, Alabama.

Vanderboegh is referring to his blog called Sipsey Street Irregulars. He says his invitation to “break windows…break them now” is behind the incident in Rochester and at least two others in Tucson and Kansas. The message to Democrats should be clear.

"Wake up and understand what is happening in this country. You need to start listening to people who you think you didn't have to pay any attention to, because sooner or later they will get your attention," he says.

475 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:40:00am

re: #461 Walter L. Newton

Where did Palamino use the term "country hicks?"

I don't get where they said that either. Maybe fat='country hick' or something.

476 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:40:08am

re: #469 wozzablog

on what?...

the NEA, pet projects, pork & the like?

Or stuff that will actually have a real impact on the deficit like the military, education, social security, medicare, medicaid...

And if so - good luck in finding a senate or house majority to do so in pretty much any circumstance under either party.

Healthcare spending across the entire economy is approaching 20% of GDP with no sign of slowing - until the back end costs and administrative costs are put in check. That can only be done by front ending access to healthcare for all so they don't turn up in the emergency room or need long hospital stays or more exspensive scrips.

Addressing front end healthcare access now - will markedly reduce the fture costs of healthcare across the whole economy adding extra wiggle room for the aging population..

The NEA have my school a grant for a set of American art reproductions. They're very nice.

/Yes, this is apropos of nothing.

477 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:40:13am

re: #471 wrenchwench

Gee our old La Salle ran great

/never heard that one right when the show was on.

Yeah, when I was a kid I thought it was something about a salad plate.

The Simpsons did a great parody. "Michael Jackson still was black..."

478 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:41:03am

re: #457 SanFranciscoZionist

"Russian man I know, his American fiancee make him change name to Gerbert Goover. For honor. Next election, Gerbert Goover don't win. How he feel then, that Russian fellow? Be the same with you."

Fun people, the Russians. Eh, Slavs in general are a lotta fun. As a group, some of the most refreshingly, fully honest people I've yet come across.

Ask Anatoly how he's been doing, and Anatoly will tell you, in full detail.

479 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:41:06am

re: #461 Walter L. Newton

Where did Palamino use the term "country hicks?"

He(or she) said it was filled with a million good ol' boys would consider yellin' baby killer on the House floor an act of patriotism.

480 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:41:44am

re: #476 SanFranciscoZionist

i

481 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:42:10am

re: #474 Killgore Trout

I'm very afraid, that the violence is going to continue, and escalate.
There are a lot of people who are afraid of what they are seeing in this country, right now.

482 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:42:22am

re: #480 wozzablog

ok, that sucked as a comment.


i quite like the NEA too. It just usually seems to be first for the schopping block on any discussion.

483 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:42:29am

re: #456 blueraven

Not exactly sure of the amount, but there is a provision to hire private investigators to go after fraud. I think it is 250,000,000 and that the idea came from the republican side.

I'm not sure who made the original claim, but elimination of fraud and waste was supposed to be critical to making the numbers work, and if the amounts estimated were correct, it was something that needed doing anyway.

Whether that will yield any projected savings is hard to say. In terms of inefficiency, it's presumably a small percentage of total transactions, and that last bit is often a lot harder to eliminate than it might appear.

Any idea on when we will start realizing those savings? I would think they should be apparent rather quickly, like a year or so.

484 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:42:32am

re: #474 Killgore Trout

Health Care Reform Leads to Threats

..the FBI is now investigating...

485 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:42:55am

re: #458 Mad Al-Jaffee

And you knew who you were then
Girls were girls and men were men
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again

"Those were the days!" ;)

486 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:43:09am

re: #478 Guanxi88

My cousin is married to a Russian woman. At the wedding reception, they wanted to have a bottle of vodka and a bottle of brandy at every table. They couldn't do that, but they had waiters going around with shots of both. It was a fun wedding.

487 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:43:22am

re: #459 torrentprime

Well, the public option would help us spend less, as would single-payer, but the conservatives (GOP and Dem) weren't ready for it. You support those ideas, one might assume, in the name of fiscal conservatism?

Since they're not in the cards, it really doesn't matter if I support them or not. I'm talking about what's actually taking place.

488 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:44:30am

re: #474 Killgore Trout

Health Care Reform Leads to Threats

The jackass quoted JFK's drinking buddy, fishing partner, and political rival Barry Goldwater to justify an act of political violence? This person has no idea, NO IDEA, what Goldwater was about or who he was.

489 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:44:34am

re: #481 Floral Giraffe

I'm very afraid, that the violence is going to continue, and escalate.
There are a lot of people who are afraid of what they are seeing in this country, right now.

They were all pretty much dismissed as concern trolls engaging in tu quoque arguments in an earlier thread, so I guess you can stop worrying. /

490 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:44:51am

re: #464 Shiplord Kirel

This explains why no sane GOP politician has stepped forward to comprehensively denounce the crazies: They have been aware for some time that the lunatic fringe is now the lunatic mainstream.
John McCain, national hero and former presidential candidate, may actually lose his primary to non-entity JD Hayworth. By any reasonable standard, outing Hayworth as a birther should have made it a slam-dunk for McCain. Instead, the opposite has happened.

This newly radicalized GOP is not too likely to win a majority in Congress this fall. It is not impossible, however, given the traditional mid-term gains by the opposition--- and the right set of foul-ups and missteps by the Democrats. That is truly a frightening prospect, since this would not be a return to Republican majorities of the past, but an entirely new majority, one based on ideologies and movements that were suppressed or marginalized during previous periods of Republican dominance.

McCain is still far ahead of Hayworth and Sarah Palin will be campaigning for him this week. John McCain will spend the spring and summer propitiating the wingnuts, but he should win the primary by a comfortable margin.

491 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:45:05am

re: #450 Lidane

Ouch. You have my sympathy.


Thanks. As much as I hate Houston, I fell in love with San Antonio. Went to Trinity U., then moved to L.A. and met my wife who just happened to be from San Antonio. Each time I go back to TX I gain like 10 lbs.--nothing to do but eat Tex-Mex, bbq, and fried everything. God, I love that food, and I hate hearing constantly about how bad it is for me. I don't think there's a good chicken fried steak anywhere in California.

Only been to Laredo once. It's a tough town I hear.

492 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:45:16am

re: #477 Mad Al-Jaffee

Yeah, when I was a kid I thought it was something about a salad plate.

The Simpsons did a great parody. "Michael Jackson still was black..."

Which leads to my favorite misunderstanding, this by a five year old. We invited him to dinner, and when he asked his dad if he could come, he was told to ask whether he could bring anything. We said, "No, just bring your appetite." He said, "We don't have any apple-tites, can we just use plates?" I have no idea what he thought an apple-tite was, and neither does he at the age of 19 now.

493 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:45:18am

re: #473 keloyd

Getting back to the original subject of this thread, 'bad craziness' is the nature of the beast in politics today. When Democrats win big, the right throws tantrums and is generally out of line. When Republicans were getting their way year after year, the pollsters got (nearly) equally disturbing results, but for the left wing. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I still believe a better title is 'bad craziness also' or 'our vs. their bad craziness' or the 'yin and yang of bad craziness'.

A smaller, but still pretty high % of Democrats thought W knew of the 9/11 attacks in advance.
There were only a little bit fewer truthers in recent years than birthers today.

I wish I didn't have to say this, but my point is in no way intended as a defense of recent wingnuttery, but an attempt to give it context.

I'm a little skeptical of those #'s though. I was talking about this a few years ago to a very liberal friend and he made a good point (but not one I really agree with). He said he would answer yes to that question, but that would be misleading. He thinks they "knew" in the sense that they had good intelligence that was overlooked/ignored. But he certainly doesn't think the Bush Administration consciously allowed it to happen. Basically, he's calling them incompetent, not evil.

Anyway, I wish the question was "Do you think the Bush Administration was behind the 9/11 attacks?" or "Do you think the Bush Administration knowingly allowed the attacks to happen?" I think that would give you a more accurate picture of how many truthers are out there.

494 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:45:26am

re: #486 Mad Al-Jaffee

My cousin is married to a Russian woman. At the wedding reception, they wanted to have a bottle of vodka and a bottle of brandy at every table. They couldn't do that, but they had waiters going around with shots of both. It was a fun wedding.

I tell you, of the Russians I've met, and coming from a Slavic family, that the very fact that, culturally, there's no pretense to maintain of "Everything's just fine and dandy with me" frees people to be who they really are. Consequently, when they love, when they hate, when they mourn, when they celebrate, there's no holding back.

It's quite healthy.

495 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:45:57am

re: #478 Guanxi88

Fun people, the Russians. Eh, Slavs in general are a lotta fun. As a group, some of the most refreshingly, fully honest people I've yet come across.

The two coolest people I knew in my classes at St. Ed's were Russian, and one of my favorite professors was Romanian. Their honestly and bluntness was not only refreshing, but made them great company.

496 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:46:08am

re: #491 palomino

I fell in love with a girl from San Antonio, was there last month myself.

Actually saw very little of the place.

497 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:46:15am

re: #452 The Sanity Inspector

Let's not get ugly, now...

You're right, it's gorgeous. But come on, she wasn't really governing people. She was governing ice, timber and oil.

498 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:46:53am

re: #495 Lidane

The two coolest people I knew in my classes at St. Ed's were Russian, and one of my favorite professors was Romanian. Their honestly and bluntness was not only refreshing, but made them great company.

Yep, you always know where you stand with them.

499 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:46:55am

re: #479 Dante41

He(or she) said it was filled with a million good ol' boys would consider yellin' baby killer on the House floor an act of patriotism.

Ah okay I see. Further up in the discussion. I was just confused because of the quoted comment where you responded. Sorry bout that.

500 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:47:44am

re: #471 wrenchwench

Gee our old La Salle ran great

/never heard that one right when the show was on.

Ha..... I thought it was just me.

"G-R-O- la-sal an grade"

501 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:48:00am

re: #488 Shiplord Kirel

The jackass quoted JFK's drinking buddy, fishing partner, and political rival Barry Goldwater to justify an act of political violence? This person has no idea, NO IDEA, what Goldwater was about or who he was.

Conservatism is quite popular. As a result, it tends to get hijacked by others trying to bootstrap their own causes. The religious right and several other fringe groups leap to mind.

We could certainly use Barry Goldwater about now.

502 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:48:40am

re: #496 wozzablog

I fell in love with a girl from San Antonio, was there last month myself.

Actually saw very little of the place.

Bob Wills. San Antonio Rose:

Youtube Video
503 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:49:32am

re: #492 wrenchwench

I remember thinking that chicken and dumpling soup was chicken and "duckling" soup.

504 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:50:44am

re: #502 Guanxi88

many thanks for that :-)

505 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:50:52am

re: #491 palomino

Thanks. As much as I hate Houston, I fell in love with San Antonio. Went to Trinity U., then moved to L.A. and met my wife who just happened to be from San Antonio. Each time I go back to TX I gain like 10 lbs.--nothing to do but eat Tex-Mex, bbq, and fried everything. God, I love that food, and I hate hearing constantly about how bad it is for me. I don't think there's a good chicken fried steak anywhere in California.

Only been to Laredo once. It's a tough town I hear.

Visited San Antonio for the first time over Thanksgiving last year. Stayed near the Riverwalk. Had some awesome food. Love the selection of restaurants there and wish I could have stayed a couple more weeks to sample more of them. Got to see the Alamo (and my son threw up on it). Really enjoyed it.

506 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:52:09am

lsters gaters

507 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:53:01am

re: #453 Dante41

I was born and raised there myself. Hell, I go to school at TAMUG down in Galveston. I am not going to dispute that in the summer it is a muggy hellhole, and that our populace is pretty sedimentary.

However, saying that it is filled with dumb country hicks is an insult I shall not stand for, sir!

I grew up there in the 70s and early 80s, and I know it's changed. BUT it's still got a bit of the Old South to it. I just have bad memories of constant use of the n-word, not just by trailer trash, but by educated people--doctors, lawyers, teachers, neighbors. And the old refrain of "the South will rise again", as if obsessing over a war from the previous century could possibly be worthwhile.

508 prairiefire  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:53:41am

Think Progress YouTubes Sarah Palin saying a 3rd party can help the process[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

509 big wabbit  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:53:52am

Did I turn left and stumble into the Huffington Post?????
Can't tell anymore - As Sarah Palin has said - "They voted Sunday - We get to vote in November!! - Go Sarah - to take back our country !

510 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:54:02am

And at the other extreme from Texas right now... Denver and area...

Current conditions show upper level trough moving into NW Colorado with surface low setting up in SE Colorado. Plume of moisture in AZ is phased to combine with cold upper trough this evening and tonight. Snow currently moving into northern and NW Colorado and will slide south this afternoon. Snow should begin shortly after noon in the foothills, and after 3 pm in the Urban Corridor. Initial snow will likely melt on pavement, and then freeze as temps lower and heavy snow begins. Snow should become heavy by 5-6 pm, so commute later this evening could be a mess. Heaviest snow will be from 6 pm this evening through 6 am Wed morning. Light snow will continue Wed morning into the early afternoon before diminishing by Wed evening.

Total storm snowfall:

Most Foothill Locations: 12 to 18 inches, potential up to 2 feet in Favored spots.
Banana Belt Foothill locations: 5-10 inches
Palmer Divide: 10-16 inches
Urban Corridor (east of I-25): 5-10 inches
Eastern Plains: 4-8 inches

The Wed morning commute will likely be very slow, with ice and snow packed roads along with snow and poor visibility. If you are out on the roads Tue evenign through Wed morning, be prepared with the proper equipment and emergency supplies.

511 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:54:25am

re: #410 theheat

And if they run out of shows for Alaska, they can always point their cameras toward Russia.
//

I didn't hear about the SNL skit this is based on until well after it happened, but the question "Can you see Russia from Alaska?" did come up on a science message board I was frequenting. It was surely based on the Fey skit, but as it turns out it's quite possible, if not probable. I forget the actual numbers, but they worked out to make visibility almost a certainty, if you ignored weather and atmospheric effects.

There are places on the Colorado Plateau, where the air is exceptionally clear, where you can see features a couple hundred miles distant. I'm pretty sure Alaska and Russia are separated by less than a hundred miles at some point.

Just FYI.

512 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:54:30am

re: #509 big wabbit

Did I turn left and stumble into the Huffington Post???
Can't tell anymore - As Sarah Palin has said - "They voted Sunday - We get to vote in November!! - Go Sarah - to take back our country !

Starbursts!

513 prairiefire  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:54:43am

re: #503 Mad Al-Jaffee

Poor little ducklings.

514 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:54:57am

re: #508 prairiefire

Think Progress YouTubes Sarah Palin saying a 3rd party can help the process[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

For the love of God Sarah, please, please do it. And please take all the whackos with you. I can have my GOP back.

515 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:55:12am

re: #509 big wabbit

Sock? or troll?

place your bets now.................

516 badger1970  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:55:40am

re: #514 Soap_Man

Perot '92

517 jordash1212  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:56:17am

My dad thinks Obama is a socialist (especially when it comes to taxes and healthcare), but I don't think he's a GOP partisan, nor do I think he's got a bad case of the crazies.

518 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:56:26am

re: #505 CyanSnowHawk

Did you find Pee Wee Herman's bike in the basement?

519 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:56:32am

re: #457 SanFranciscoZionist

"Russian man I know, his American fiancee make him change name to Gerbert Goover. For honor. Next election, Gerbert Goover don't win. How he feel then, that Russian fellow? Be the same with you."

Are you quoting Yakov Smirnoff?

But seriously, even Dick Cheney urged Congress to pass TARP and he probably would have supported the rest of the bailouts if his term hadn't--mercifully--ended. Cheney's words to Congress: "If you don't do something, it's Herbert Hoover time." That's bad even in CheneyLand.

520 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:56:59am

re: #503 Mad Al-Jaffee

I remember thinking that chicken and dumpling soup was chicken and "duckling" soup.

There's nothing quite like eating tiny birds, apparently. They were good enough to be François Mitterrand's last meal.

521 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:57:19am

re: #509 big wabbit

Did I turn left and stumble into the Huffington Post???
Can't tell anymore - As Sarah Palin has said - "They voted Sunday - We get to vote in November!! - Go Sarah - to take back our country !

Sarah's not going anywhere but to the bank but, yes, we have gone communard on you. Didn't you know? ACORN is out of business because we looted their treasury and decided to take over the left ourselves. It's about time somebody put it on a sound basis.

522 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:57:23am

re: #517 jordash1212

Socialism - as discussed above is a package deal.

At his most left wing obama is a mixed market social-democrat.

523 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:57:51am

re: #512 Jadespring

Starbursts!

I need to watch Olberman's response to Lowry's starbursts, again. That was a fantastic rant/put-down.

Dear Penthouse

524 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:58:03am

re: #509 big wabbit

Did I turn left and stumble into the Huffington Post???
Can't tell anymore - As Sarah Palin has said - "They voted Sunday - We get to vote in November!! - Go Sarah - to take back our country !

No... you stumbled on a conversation by conservative and liberal adults who disagree on certain positions... considering your juvenile comment, I think you meant to stumble upon a Peter Rabbit convention.

We'll forgive you.

525 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:58:12am

re: #517 jordash1212

My dad thinks Obama is a socialist (especially when it comes to taxes and healthcare), but I don't think he's a GOP partisan, nor do I think he's got a bad case of the crazies.

But your Dad probably doesn't understand what the word "Socialist" means.

526 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:58:24am

re: #518 Mad Al-Jaffee

Did you find Pee Wee Herman's bike in the basement?

Didn't have time to look. Had to get sick son back to the hotel.

527 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:58:37am

re: #493 Soap_Man

Good point. Still, I wonder to what degree nuance or psychology is working on the wingnut answers as well. So many times you hear someone like Buchanan or Ben Stein saying ridiculous things about evolution or economics. What they mean when they say "Darwin is wrong/evil" is really, to some degree "I'm frightened and confused by teenagers and the world changing around me."

I'm still not sure what it means when the somewhat excitable John Q. Public Ricky Q. Bobby is called at dinner time, after a few drinks, with little time to pull his thoughts together, and asked questions where you cannot give nuance or qualification. Maybe "Obama is a Muslim" means "I'm afraid of losing my job and being taxed too much to afford tuition for my kids." Not a defense, but further psychoanalysis is required on both sides of the kookoo rainbow.

528 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:59:00am

re: #458 Mad Al-Jaffee

And you knew who you were then
Girls were girls and men were men
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again

Man, you're taking me back. All in the Family was the first TV show I really loved (that didn't have talking animals). Meathead and Archie--classic stuff and socially relevant too.

529 drcordell  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:59:23am

re: #525 garhighway

But your Dad probably doesn't understand what the word "Socialist" means.

He thinks it's someone who threatens to take away his social security and medicare.

530 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:59:28am

re: #518 Mad Al-Jaffee

Youtube Video
531 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:59:51am

re: #528 palomino

Man, you're taking me back. All in the Family was the first TV show I really loved (that didn't have talking animals). Meathead and Archie--classic stuff and socially relevant too.

Amazing thing was that you never could quite bring yourself to hate Archie Bunker; you really couldn't.

532 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 11:59:57am

re: #515 wozzablog

Sock? or troll?

place your bets now...

Just a very sincere old-timey lizard. Here's the wabbit's next most recent comment. Note the number.

666 Big Wabbit7/06/2009 8:13:51 am PDT

The real deal - our future President blew the gloved one right off the news - just keep underestimating her - just like they did to Reagen

The topic of course was Sarah Palin.

533 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:02:35pm

re: #461 Walter L. Newton

Where did Palamino use the term "country hicks?"

I didn't. I said good ole boys. When I was growing up there--the 70s--the population of traditionalist neo-confederate racists was pretty large. It was like one out of every five white guys was Robert Stacy McCain.

534 blueraven  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:02:58pm

re: #483 SixDegrees

I'm not sure who made the original claim, but elimination of fraud and waste was supposed to be critical to making the numbers work, and if the amounts estimated were correct, it was something that needed doing anyway.

Whether that will yield any projected savings is hard to say. In terms of inefficiency, it's presumably a small percentage of total transactions, and that last bit is often a lot harder to eliminate than it might appear.

Any idea on when we will start realizing those savings? I would think they should be apparent rather quickly, like a year or so.

Not sure, but it looks like some efforts for this have already begun.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

535 drcordell  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:03:19pm

re: #514 Soap_Man

For the love of God Sarah, please, please do it. And please take all the whackos with you. I can have my GOP back.

I watched her digging that hole on Hannity last night. Palin was talking about the tea parties launching 3rd party candidates. Then Hannity jumped in and brought up the Harry Reid example and asked her if she thinks the tea parties should be worried about spoiling elections. And she completely missed the chance to walk herself back, and just kept blabbin.

536 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:03:22pm

re: #509 big wabbit

Did I turn left and stumble into the Huffington Post???
Can't tell anymore - As Sarah Palin has said - "They voted Sunday - We get to vote in November!! - Go Sarah - to take back our country !

Class of '04!

537 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:03:27pm

re: #531 Guanxi88

Amazing thing was that you never could quite bring yourself to hate Archie Bunker; you really couldn't.

All in the Family was borrowed from "Til Death Do us Part" a British comedy series featureing the racist bigot Alf Garnett, and Sanford and Son was borrowed from "Steptoe and Son", a British comedy series about a junk dealer and son from the London East End.

I seem to remember that was even mentioned in the credits of the respective series.

538 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:03:34pm

re: #517 jordash1212

My dad thinks Obama is a socialist (especially when it comes to taxes and healthcare), but I don't think he's a GOP partisan, nor do I think he's got a bad case of the crazies.

"Socialist" has become a pretty subjective term these days. That's why the 67 percent figure doesn't mean that much to me. It's all the other numbers that bug me.

539 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:04:55pm

re: #473 keloyd

Getting back to the original subject of this thread, 'bad craziness' is the nature of the beast in politics today. When Democrats win big, the right throws tantrums and is generally out of line. When Republicans were getting their way year after year, the pollsters got (nearly) equally disturbing results, but for the left wing. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I still believe a better title is 'bad craziness also' or 'our vs. their bad craziness' or the 'yin and yang of bad craziness'.

A smaller, but still pretty high % of Democrats thought W knew of the 9/11 attacks in advance.
There were only a little bit fewer truthers in recent years than birthers today.

I wish I didn't have to say this, but my point is in no way intended as a defense of recent wingnuttery, but an attempt to give it context.

I think I'd agree with you if Hillary were president. But Obama--the name, race, background--has led to a new level of craziness.

540 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:05:01pm

re: #515 wozzablog

If you are neither Wabbit, you have my apologies - but boy are your wrong.

541 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:05:15pm

re: #527 keloyd

Good point. Still, I wonder to what degree nuance or psychology is working on the wingnut answers as well. So many times you hear someone like Buchanan or Ben Stein saying ridiculous things about evolution or economics. What they mean when they say "Darwin is wrong/evil" is really, to some degree "I'm frightened and confused by teenagers and the world changing around me."

I'm still not sure what it means when the somewhat excitable John Q. Public Ricky Q. Bobby is called at dinner time, after a few drinks, with little time to pull his thoughts together, and asked questions where you cannot give nuance or qualification. Maybe "Obama is a Muslim" means "I'm afraid of losing my job and being taxed too much to afford tuition for my kids." Not a defense, but further psychoanalysis is required on both sides of the kookoo rainbow.

That's an interesting way to look at it.

542 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:05:21pm

re: #540 wozzablog

gotta lovea typo in that context

:-(

543 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:05:23pm

re: #537 ralphieboy

And The Office was borrowed from a British comedy called, believe it or not, The Office!

544 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:06:34pm

re: #538 Soap_Man

"Socialist" has become a pretty subjective term these days. That's why the 67 percent figure doesn't mean that much to me. It's all the other numbers that bug me.

I was about to comment much the same, of course having Glenn Beck hold up picutures of Hitler and Stalin next to each other as if they were equivalent items does not help.

And if most Americans saw the sort of social market economy that passes for "capitalism" in most of Europe they would start seriously stocking up on ammo...

545 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:06:42pm

re: #509 big wabbit

Did I turn left and stumble into the Huffington Post???
Can't tell anymore - As Sarah Palin has said - "They voted Sunday - We get to vote in November!! - Go Sarah - to take back our country !

Why didn't you just make it all caps while you were at it?

546 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:07:23pm

re: #537 ralphieboy

All in the Family was borrowed from "Til Death Do us Part" a British comedy series featureing the racist bigot Alf Garnett, and Sanford and Son was borrowed from "Steptoe and Son", a British comedy series about a junk dealer and son from the London East End.

I seem to remember that was even mentioned in the credits of the respective series.

That's not unusual and is still going on. The Office is a direct import and they tried that with Coupling as well a few years ago. IIRC Three's Company was based on a show out of the UK as well.

547 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:08:19pm

re: #545 Soap_Man

Why didn't you just make it all caps while you were at it?

I love me reading some Freeper madness. It's like websites before usability was in vogue: all caps, varying colors, varying font sizes, multiple exclamation points. Blink tags sometimes, too, I think...

548 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:08:43pm

re: #519 palomino

Are you quoting Yakov Smirnoff?

But seriously, even Dick Cheney urged Congress to pass TARP and he probably would have supported the rest of the bailouts if his term hadn't--mercifully--ended. Cheney's words to Congress: "If you don't do something, it's Herbert Hoover time." That's bad even in CheneyLand.

No, it's from a much earlier book by a Georgian immigrant, George Papashvily. He describes the process of settling in, and meeting the love of his life, an American girl he refers to as 'Helena Gerbertovna'. (Her best friend is 'Kathleen Patrickovna'). Book's called "Anything Can Happen".

549 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:08:54pm

re: #547 torrentprime

I love me reading some Freeper madness. It's like websites before usability was in vogue: all caps, varying colors, varying font sizes, multiple exclamation points. Blink tags sometimes, too, I think...

LOUD NOISES!!!

550 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:09:47pm

re: #496 wozzablog

I fell in love with a girl from San Antonio, was there last month myself.

Actually saw very little of the place.

That's the way it should be. My fondest memory of S.A. will always be the summer of 1987, when I met my first college girlfriend. It rained for 22 days straight; July alone got almost 20" of rain. Nothing to do but party and get laid.

551 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:10:07pm

Sarah:

A third party candidate can really shore-up a Republican candidate in terms of that Republican candidate having to be very strong and sharp and debate aggressively, regarding the positions that they have taken.


When is the GOP going to cut her loose?

552 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:10:10pm

re: #531 Guanxi88

Amazing thing was that you never could quite bring yourself to hate Archie Bunker; you really couldn't.

That was the genius of the character.

553 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:10:16pm

re: #549 Soap_Man

LOUD NOISES!!!

Could someone test this? Seriously.

Walk into a a coffee shop in one of those McCain/Obama 80/20 districts and yell "OBAMA!"Compare that response to doing the same in a Starbucks in Seattle or San Fran.

554 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:10:39pm

My favorite old BBC series was called "Rising Damp", about a black fellow from South London who cannot find a room to rent until he has some scar tatoos carved into his cheek and passes himself off as an "African Prince", the gag being that royalty (of any kind) still carries a lot of weight in British society.

555 Soap_Man  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:11:05pm

BBL

556 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:11:11pm

re: #539 palomino

I think I'd agree with you if Hillary were president. But Obama--the name, race, background--has led to a new level of craziness.

I won't rule out that possibility either.

557 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:11:57pm

re: #546 CyanSnowHawk

That's not unusual and is still going on. The Office is a direct import and they tried that with Coupling as well a few years ago. IIRC Three's Company was based on a show out of the UK as well.

Coupling is hilarious, but what makes it funny might be too risque for the US market.

558 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:13:07pm

Now that health care has passed, I fear the level of ranting will only get notched up. Lots of wingnuts see this as proof that the coup de etat has succeeded and we have come one step closer to a Communo-Fascist-Islamist dictatorship that must be resisted by force.

559 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:13:35pm

re: #505 CyanSnowHawk

Visited San Antonio for the first time over Thanksgiving last year. Stayed near the Riverwalk. Had some awesome food. Love the selection of restaurants there and wish I could have stayed a couple more weeks to sample more of them. Got to see the Alamo (and my son threw up on it). Really enjoyed it.

Your son threw up ON the Alamo, not just in it? Your son is my new hero. That is a classic Texas-sized hoot.

Back in the early 80s, Ozzy Osbourne urinated on the Alamo after a concert. The City Council wanted to string him up, and they later passed an ordinance barring him from ever returning to the city. Of course that's not really constitutional, but they didn't care. It was all for honor.

560 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:13:51pm

re: #557 SanFranciscoZionist

Coupling is hilarious, but what makes it funny might be too risque for the US market.

Love Coupling. Wish more US shows followed that pattern. Also watching Being Human season two right now; same thing.

561 S'latch  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:14:00pm

Most of this data to proves Obama Derangement Syndrome has infected the Republican Party. The Right has gone nuts for the most part.

However, that fact that 67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist does not prove derangement. Reasonable people can argue about the definition of the socialist label. However, the belief that Obama is a socialist is not unreasonable. I am not saying that he definitely is a socialist. But I think a reasonable argument can be made that he is.

562 Semper Fi  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:14:32pm

re: #535 drcordell

I watched her digging that hole on Hannity last night. Palin was talking about the tea parties launching 3rd party candidates. Then Hannity jumped in and brought up the Harry Reid example and asked her if she thinks the tea parties should be worried about spoiling elections. And she completely missed the chance to walk herself back, and just kept blabbin.

Good afternoon. Just sitting online awhile for lunch. Thought I'd mention this mornings news. Looks like there will be a big Tea Party gathering in Searchlight, NV this saturday with Sarah Palin one of the honored guests. Population of Searchlight is probably close to 800. Yeah, it will be a mess. They're apparently focusing on Harry Reid as enemy #1.

563 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:15:58pm

Vandalism reported at offices of three Democrats

Democratic offices in at least three states have reported instances of vandalism that party members say possibly were tied to Sunday's historic vote on health care reform.

Early Monday morning, a glass panel at the Tucson office of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Arizona, was shattered, spokesman C.J. Karamargin said. It wasn't clear how the window was shattered, but visitors have to go through a gated courtyard to enter the office, and staffers suspect someone may have shot a pellet gun at the glass, he said.

Nothing was taken from the congresswoman's office, Karamargin said.

Freeper response:

There (sic) lucky it has only been bricks.
As the anarchists love to say, “Property damage isn’t violence.” And if burning the flag is free speech why isn’t breaking the window of a Democrat party office?

(Possibly because it belongs to someone else?)

I have no doubt it's their own hench people. Common RAT tactic.
I condone all of this 100% Keep up the good work patriots, and remember the Sons of Liberty.
A few bricks through the windows will seem like kids play before this is all over, I fear. Obama will be judged a worse President than Buchanan. This is not going to end well for many, many people.
Maybe strangely, maybe not so strange—I seem to have little problem with this little bit of civil disobedience.
564 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:15:59pm

re: #561 Lawrence Schmerel

Most of this data to proves Obama Derangement Syndrome has infected the Republican Party. The Right has gone nuts for the most part.

However, that fact that 67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist does not prove derangement. Reasonable people can argue about the definition of the socialist label. However, the belief that Obama is a socialist is not unreasonable. I am not saying that he definitely is a socialist. But I think a reasonable argument can be made that he is.

The only way to make such a "reasonable argument" is to redefine "Socialist".

565 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:16:17pm

re: #562 Semper Fi

Good afternoon. Just sitting online awhile for lunch. Thought I'd mention this mornings news. Looks like there will be a big Tea Party gathering in Searchlight, NV this saturday with Sarah Palin one of the honored guests. Population of Searchlight is probably close to 800. Yeah, it will be a mess. They're apparently focusing on Harry Reid as enemy #1.

If I lived in Searchlight, I think I'd go camping this weekend.

566 blueraven  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:16:33pm

re: #561 Lawrence Schmerel

Most of this data to proves Obama Derangement Syndrome has infected the Republican Party. The Right has gone nuts for the most part.

However, that fact that 67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist does not prove derangement. Reasonable people can argue about the definition of the socialist label. However, the belief that Obama is a socialist is not unreasonable. I am not saying that he definitely is a socialist. But I think a reasonable argument can be made that he is.

567 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:17:21pm

re: #524 Walter L. Newton

No... you stumbled on a conversation by conservative and liberal adults who disagree on certain positions... considering your juvenile comment, I think you meant to stumble upon a Peter Rabbit convention.

We'll forgive you.

Wonderful smackdown, Walter. Truly first-rate.

568 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:17:34pm

I agree with people that the socialist label is less disturbing than the other ones. The most disturbing to me are quite honestly the Hitler tendency and Anti-Christ ones. I mean damn. What are these people reading to that has them seriously thinking that Obama is like Hitler or any dictator for that matter. The tea partiers are still protesting and still have the right to do and gasp are even running for office. If Obama's a dictator. He's the most shitty one ever.

569 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:17:34pm

re: #561 Lawrence Schmerel

Most of this data to proves Obama Derangement Syndrome has infected the Republican Party. The Right has gone nuts for the most part.

However, that fact that 67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist does not prove derangement. Reasonable people can argue about the definition of the socialist label. However, the belief that Obama is a socialist is not unreasonable. I am not saying that he definitely is a socialist. But I think a reasonable argument can be made that he is.

I wanted to make that very point. "Socialist" is malleable enough a word that it can be made to fit Obama's philosophy. In Europe, he would fit neatly in the 'social democrat' camp, nttawwt.

570 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:17:44pm

re: #517 jordash1212

My dad thinks Obama is a socialist (especially when it comes to taxes and healthcare), but I don't think he's a GOP partisan, nor do I think he's got a bad case of the crazies.

At least socialist is a plausible argument.

But the terrorist Kenyan Muslim stuff is a national disgrace. When we're all REALLY old, we'll look back on this and wonder how the country got so far afield, and why some of us treated our first black president so shamefully.

571 yael  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:17:57pm

re: #548 SanFranciscoZionist

Couldn't resist checking in to join in your praise of "Anything Can Happen." I first ran across it in high school (dark ages) and still enjoy re-reading from time to time. Warm, amazing and hilarious. Thanks SFZ for reminding me.

572 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:18:07pm

Not from the Onion: Indian Military to Weaponize World's Hottest Chili

573 blueraven  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:18:56pm

re: #566 blueraven

Sorry hit a wrong button.

What I wanted to say, is that this only proves that people do not really understand what socialism means.

574 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:19:23pm

re: #563 Shiplord Kirel

I wonder how many Weather Underground 'veterans' will denounce this violence.

575 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:19:40pm

re: #572 SanFranciscoZionist

Not from the Onion: Indian Military to Weaponize World's Hottest Chili

My own chili recipe was banned by the Geneva Convention.

576 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:19:51pm

re: #572 SanFranciscoZionist

Not from the Onion: Indian Military to Weaponize World's Hottest Chili

Whoa. I'd lay down my weapons

577 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:19:54pm

re: #531 Guanxi88

Amazing thing was that you never could quite bring yourself to hate Archie Bunker; you really couldn't.

You're right. And he was kinda like the good old boys I knew growing up in TX. Likeable in many ways and ultimately harmless, but still relics of a bygone era.

578 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:20:15pm

And, commenting on the chili story above, one man writes: Weaponizing food has been around for centuries. The Romans weaponized my mother-in-law's tuna casserole to defeat the world.

579 Semper Fi  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:20:15pm

re: #565 SanFranciscoZionist

If I lived in Searchlight, I think I'd go camping this weekend.

I expect the Searchlight residents will experience traffic gridlock.

580 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:20:21pm

re: #572 SanFranciscoZionist

Bring.It.On..... /

581 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:21:03pm

re: #569 keloyd

I wanted to make that very point. "Socialist" is malleable enough a word that it can be made to fit Obama's philosophy. In Europe, he would fit neatly in the 'social democrat' camp, nttawwt.

You're right it's malleable. It could easily be massaged to fit every single American president to one point or another.

582 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:22:02pm

re: #562 Semper Fi

Good afternoon. Just sitting online awhile for lunch. Thought I'd mention this mornings news. Looks like there will be a big Tea Party gathering in Searchlight, NV this saturday with Sarah Palin one of the honored guests. Population of Searchlight is probably close to 800. Yeah, it will be a mess. They're apparently focusing on Harry Reid as enemy #1.

The best strategy for getting rid of Reid is to simply let him self-immolate. He's doing a fine job of losing all by himself, and doesn't need any additional help.

583 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:22:03pm

re: #573 blueraven

Sorry hit a wrong button.

What I wanted to say, is that this only proves that people do not really understand what socialism means.

It's cool and I have to agree. The perception that is being put out there that all socialism is the same. I said it earlier but the Soviets oppressed socialists and even Communists. There was a wonderful documentary on the history of socialism that Ben Wattenberg did that I saw. Real interesting. Talks about not just Marx and Engels but people like Robert Owen.

584 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:22:20pm

re: #509 big wabbit

Ah, a test subject...
Force GAZE!
*Dark Side Points Gained*

585 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:22:40pm

re: #548 SanFranciscoZionist

No, it's from a much earlier book by a Georgian immigrant, George Papashvily. He describes the process of settling in, and meeting the love of his life, an American girl he refers to as 'Helena Gerbertovna'. (Her best friend is 'Kathleen Patrickovna'). Book's called "Anything Can Happen".

Just slightly higher brow than Yakov, huh?////////

586 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:22:46pm

re: #572 SanFranciscoZionist

Not from the Onion: Indian Military to Weaponize World's Hottest Chili

Incoming chili grenade! ow ow ow ow ow

587 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:23:50pm

To Glenn Beck, the word "socialist" is automatically to be prefixed by either "national" or "soviet". Period.

588 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:23:55pm

re: #581 Jadespring

...or by a pollster who wants a big juicy talking point.

Still, most of those respondents need to turn off Fox News and open a Wall Street Journal every once in a while.

589 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:24:18pm

re: #586 Stanley Sea

Incoming chili grenade! ow ow ow ow ow

I've had one of those peppers before... Definitely has weapons grade potential.
:)

590 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:24:28pm

re: #570 palomino

At least socialist is a plausible argument.

But the terrorist Kenyan Muslim stuff is a national disgrace. When we're all REALLY old, we'll look back on this and wonder how the country got so far afield, and why some of us treated our first black president so shamefully.

Yeah, those parts make me sick. People have gotten all worked up and and those who stay sane will still pay the price.

591 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:24:40pm

re: #569 keloyd

I wanted to make that very point. "Socialist" is malleable enough a word that it can be made to fit Obama's philosophy. In Europe, he would fit neatly in the 'social democrat' camp, nttawwt.

I don't think anybody can argue that he's not a socialist without their wingnut roots showing. At the same time, he knows you can't come into this system and sweep it clean across all industries, putting into place government management. So, his objective is to move the country incrementally in that direction.

592 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:24:51pm

re: #588 keloyd

...or by a pollster who wants a big juicy talking point.

Still, most of those respondents need to turn off Fox News and open a Wall Street Journal every once in a while.

Unless they turn to the editorial page. They'll find the same opinions there, really (properly spelled and edited, natch).

593 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:24:57pm

re: #572 SanFranciscoZionist

Not from the Onion: Indian Military to Weaponize World's Hottest Chili

Buy the seeds and grow them yourself! Imagine the hilarious hijinks you can play on your friends!

594 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:26:08pm

re: #584 Varek Raith

Ah, a test subject...
Force GAZE!
*Dark Side Points Gained*

Hossenffefer! Thanks for the roast rabbit, Varek.

595 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:26:17pm

re: #591 cliffster

At the same time, he knows you can't come into this system and sweep it clean across all industries, putting into place government management.

"He owns the banks! He owns the car companies! He owns Wall Street! He owns the hospitals!"
With the slight problem that your statement is completely not based in reality, excellent Rush Limbaugh comparison.

596 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:26:46pm

re: #569 keloyd

I wanted to make that very point. "Socialist" is malleable enough a word that it can be made to fit Obama's philosophy. In Europe, he would fit neatly in the 'social democrat' camp, nttawwt.

It's only malleable if malleable means people get to simply make up their own definition for it.

597 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:27:05pm

re: #595 torrentprime

Your wingnut roots are showing

598 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:27:39pm

re: #558 ralphieboy

Now that health care has passed, I fear the level of ranting will only get notched up. Lots of wingnuts see this as proof that the coup de etat has succeeded and we have come one step closer to a Communo-Fascist-Islamist dictatorship that must be resisted by force.

And if they follow this up with immigration reform (which will at least have a semblance of bipartisanship with Lindsey Graham involved), the teabag rhetoric will only get more vile.

599 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:28:13pm

Another former guest at Gitmo who was later released is now heir apparent to Mullah Baradar.

600 Locker  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:28:17pm

re: #597 cliffster

Your wingnut roots are showing

Your ODS is showing.

601 Semper Fi  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:28:19pm

re: #582 SixDegrees

The best strategy for getting rid of Reid is to simply let him self-immolate. He's doing a fine job of losing all by himself, and doesn't need any additional help.

It does appear he's imploding. Could it be possible tea baggers wish to gain some recognition/credit for this falling star...

602 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:28:36pm

re: #557 SanFranciscoZionist

Coupling is hilarious, but what makes it funny might be too risque for the US market.

And it proved to be so. I have all four seasons on DVD. Mrs. Hawk and I crack up when she pokes a fork into any meat and makes that animal's noise as well, a la, Jane and the lamb roast.

603 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:29:01pm

re: #591 cliffster

I don't think anybody can argue that he's not a socialist without their wingnut roots showing.

Maybe the double negative has me confused. Are you saying Obama IS a Socialist?

And if so, are you using a dictionary definition or a bullshit less-precise one?

604 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:29:06pm

What bugs me is these same people who will criticize everything Obama does were often the same people who acted like it was unpatriotic to criticize Bush during wartime. Not that all the criticisms of Bush were legitimate and quite frankly some of them were downright insane but it's funny to me that those who opposed the war in Iraq were told by the right that criticism of the president's war policies undermines the troops and their mission. Didn't stop them and Republicans in Congress from criticizing Obama's plans though. I mean these people have every right to criticize but the paranoia about Obama being this Muslim Commie-Nazi dictator Anti-Christ is just so absurd.

605 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:29:31pm

re: #591 cliffster

I don't think anybody can argue that he's not a socialist without their wingnut roots showing. At the same time, he knows you can't come into this system and sweep it clean across all industries, putting into place government management. So, his objective is to move the country incrementally in that direction.

If your using 'government management' as some sort of catch all definition meaning socialism then I'd argue that this would apply to every single American president on one issue or another. I don't know of any president or party for that matter who didn't want or try to enforce 'government management' on one sector/issue or another.

Perhaps you need to further define 'government management'.

606 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:30:19pm

BBIAB

607 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:30:31pm

re: #603 garhighway

Maybe the double negative has me confused. Are you saying Obama IS a Socialist?

And if so, are you using a dictionary definition or a bullshit less-precise one?

You know, you changed my mind. Obama isn't a socialist. He's just a politician who believes that the means of production should be controlled to varying degree by a central governing body, and that the value of goods and services should be either determined or heavily influenced by this governing body.

608 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:30:35pm

re: #574 keloyd

I wonder how many Weather Underground 'veterans' will denounce this violence.

There's only about a dozen WU veterans left, and except for Ayers and Dohrn, I think most have already renounced violence and admitted how misguided they were.

609 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:31:04pm

re: #598 palomino

And if they follow this up with immigration reform (which will at least have a semblance of bipartisanship with Lindsey Graham involved), the teabag rhetoric will only get more vile.

Is Graham still planning to work with the white house on immigration reform? He seemed a little ticked at how the white house handled health care but he's generally a rational guy. But yeah immigration reform is going to only get them more mad with accusations that Obama is trying to build up a new base of illegal immigrant supporters even though it was a conservative hero, Reagan who actually allowed amnesty.

610 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:31:52pm

re: #607 cliffster

You know, you changed my mind. Obama isn't a socialist. He's just a politician who believes that the means of production should be controlled to varying degree by a central governing body, and that the value of goods and services should be either determined or heavily influenced by this governing body.

Points for cut-and paste.

So do you think that? Because I really am confused about your earlier post.

611 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:33:40pm

re: #596 garhighway

It's only malleable if malleable means people get to simply make up their own definition for it.

But people DO get to simply do that, so I agree with your words but not your actual point :P . I''ve been Republican for 3 generations. Username HBLoyd, may he rest in peace, voted against FDR all 4 times. Still, we all believed in socialized fire departments, socialized military, and control of resources during hurricanes. It's all a matter of degree. "Social Democrat" means a little bit socialist, but not in a spooky way, in most of Europe, and that term fits Obama.

612 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:34:06pm

re: #597 cliffster

Your wingnut roots are showing

Well, I am a Republican. Haven't voted for one in a few years, but it's hard to fight it sometimes.

613 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:35:30pm

re: #551 Stanley Sea

When is the GOP going to cut her loose?

When she stops drawing a crowd.

614 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:35:58pm

re: #598 palomino

And if they follow this up with immigration reform (which will at least have a semblance of bipartisanship with Lindsey Graham involved), the teabag rhetoric will only get more vile.

I looked over the proposal for immigration reform this morning. Not a bill yet, but there's little there I can object to. Payment of fines and back taxes in exchange for residency, the first step toward citizenship, with exclusions for criminal behavior and backgrounds. A requirement demanding that applicants speak English. Sounds OK to me. The only thing wrong is what's missing - a comprehensive plan to address how so many illegal immigrants wound up here in the first place, and put a stop to it so we don't wind up doing this every couple of decades.

Amnesty may not sit well with some, but the spectre of marching 10 million people back across the border in shackles doesn't sit well with me. We should have enforced border security and visa expirations more seriously from the beginning; once that ball got dropped, we got stuck with the current situation. Time to deal with it as best we can, try to take serious steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again, and move on.

615 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:36:55pm

re: #574 keloyd

I wonder how many Weather Underground 'veterans' will denounce this violence.

Like the ones who targeted the Democratic convention in 1968? I was an eyewitness to those, btw, and cheered when the Chicago cops routed the Vietcong mob and its infantile dupes.
Your analogy is false and scurrilous, the Weather Underground was not some kind of Democrat counterpart to last night's vandals. It was a communist terror gang, completely beyond the boundaries of American politics.

616 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:36:58pm

re: #604 HappyWarrior

What bugs me is these same people who will criticize everything Obama does were often the same people who acted like it was unpatriotic to criticize Bush during wartime. Not that all the criticisms of Bush were legitimate and quite frankly some of them were downright insane but it's funny to me that those who opposed the war in Iraq were told by the right that criticism of the president's war policies undermines the troops and their mission. Didn't stop them and Republicans in Congress from criticizing Obama's plans though. I mean these people have every right to criticize but the paranoia about Obama being this Muslim Commie-Nazi dictator Anti-Christ is just so absurd.

I think it's fair to suspect that people saying the CiC is the Anti-Christ will probably demoralize the troops and give aid and comfort to the enemy. If they can stop laughing.

Point taken.

617 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:37:26pm

re: #610 garhighway

Points for cut-and paste.

So do you think that? Because I really am confused about your earlier post.

I didn't cut and paste anything. Some of us don't have to. What were you asking me, if I think it fits him, or if I think it doesn't?

618 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:37:43pm

re: #613 Lidane

When she stops drawing a crowd.

That will be when the religious right's power has fallen back to the low levels they have historically enjoyed. It's going to be a while.

619 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:38:53pm

re: #611 keloyd

But people DO get to simply do that, so I agree with your words but not your actual point :P . I''ve been Republican for 3 generations. Username HBLoyd, may he rest in peace, voted against FDR all 4 times. Still, we all believed in socialized fire departments, socialized military, and control of resources during hurricanes. It's all a matter of degree. "Social Democrat" means a little bit socialist, but not in a spooky way, in most of Europe, and that term fits Obama.

If all that is okay then whats in the definition of 'social democrat' doesn't apply to say someone like Bush or Reagan or Republicans in general. I'm asking seriously what you think the differences are. Just trying to understand.

620 drcordell  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:41:12pm

re: #607 cliffster

You know, you changed my mind. Obama isn't a socialist. He's just a politician who believes that the means of production should be controlled to varying degree by a central governing body, and that the value of goods and services should be either determined or heavily influenced by this governing body.

Regulation of industries that have the capability to destroy our economy is not socialism.

621 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:41:12pm

re: #568 HappyWarrior

What are these people reading to that has them seriously thinking that Obama is like Hitler or any dictator for that matter.

Jonah Goldberg, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, etc. It's been their meme for a while now.

If Obama's a dictator, he's the most shitty one ever.

Pretty much. The guy's got to be one of the most pragmatic, even tempered dictators ever.

622 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:41:43pm

The thing about immigration that we have to realize that it's not only unrealistic to send all the illegals back but it's unpractical too. We do need to increase border control certainly but we also need to be realistic too. I think we should make it easier to immigrate legally honestly. People want to come to our country. I say welcome them. Why should people be denied the chance my ancestors got. Yes, I'd like to see them adapt in to American society but we have to also understand that people aren't going to learn English overnight. Heck, my great grandmother despite living here 40 years still spoke pretty much only Slovak until her death. It's a tough language to learn.

623 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:41:52pm

re: #600 Locker

Your ODS is showing.

Sorry to disappoint. Unlike Beck et al, I am not using "Socialist" as a pejorative. Two people can say the same thing and it comes across completely differently. I can say, "well I look at the sum of Obama's statements and actions and conclude he believes a socialist framework would be better than the one we have". Beck can say, "OH MY GOD HE'S A SOCIALIST, SCARY SCARY SHIT PEOPLE WILL DIE MAO MAO". We've both said very similar things. His take is a bit stupid though.

624 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:42:50pm

re: #617 cliffster

I didn't cut and paste anything. Some of us don't have to. What were you asking me, if I think it fits him, or if I think it doesn't?


If you think it fits him.

625 Stuart Leviton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:43:34pm

A statistical mean without a standard deviation is useless; Avon does not give the standard deviation. Nor does Avon supply a link to the Harris poll so that one can evaluate the information for their own self. I reject the poll due to insufficient information.

626 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:43:59pm

re: #614 SixDegrees

I looked over the proposal for immigration reform this morning. Not a bill yet, but there's little there I can object to. Payment of fines and back taxes in exchange for residency, the first step toward citizenship, with exclusions for criminal behavior and backgrounds. A requirement demanding that applicants speak English. Sounds OK to me. The only thing wrong is what's missing - a comprehensive plan to address how so many illegal immigrants wound up here in the first place, and put a stop to it so we don't wind up doing this every couple of decades.

Amnesty may not sit well with some, but the spectre of marching 10 million people back across the border in shackles doesn't sit well with me. We should have enforced border security and visa expirations more seriously from the beginning; once that ball got dropped, we got stuck with the current situation. Time to deal with it as best we can, try to take serious steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again, and move on.

It's a huge border, and all that's needed to turn public opinion against strong enforcement is a few dead immigrants, or better yet, dead immigrant families that died because they took insane risks to get around that strong enforcement. Never mind that too many illegals are working just a step or two removed from slavery as long as they believe they are under threat of deportation if they report any abuse.

627 Firstinla  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:44:03pm

Does it make me a socialist that I take advantage of the fire department, libraries, interstate highways, social security, medicare, etc? We try to apply the label "socialist" to our leaders but tend avoid applying to ourselves. This is the disconnect I see made by wingnutia.

628 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:44:03pm

re: #625 Stuart Leviton

A statistical mean without a standard deviation is useless; Avon does not give the standard deviation. Nor does Avon supply a link to the Harris poll so that one can evaluate the information for their own self. I reject the poll due to insufficient information.

WEll, you're well-informed, technically savvy, and no fun.

629 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:44:42pm

re: #609 HappyWarrior

Is Graham still planning to work with the white house on immigration reform? He seemed a little ticked at how the white house handled health care but he's generally a rational guy. But yeah immigration reform is going to only get them more mad with accusations that Obama is trying to build up a new base of illegal immigrant supporters even though it was a conservative hero, Reagan who actually allowed amnesty.

I think he and Schumer are working together on it as the Senate point men. This of course will mean charges of RINOism against Graham and a probable primary challenge for him.

I think this may actually be part of a Dem plan to get political mileage from the issue without necessarily having to pass a bill. If it's introduced soon, the teabaggers and some members of Congress will get even more riled up and their ugly populist nativism may even surpass what we've seen so far on HC.

The upside of this for Dems would be further solidifying the fastest growing voting bloc--Latinos. Remember back to 2007(?) when Bush brought up immigration reform--NYC, LA and Chicago all had marches of over 100,000 in favor of amnesty and in response to the nativist backlash. Few things will make voters change their allegiance as fast as being told "we don't want your kind around here."

Couple with high approval of HCR among Latinos (up to 80%), immigration reform could turn brown into the new black.

630 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:45:17pm

Biden's right...it was a big fucking deal.

Youtube Video
631 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:45:25pm

re: #627 Firstinla

Does anybody think that makes you a socialist?

632 drcordell  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:45:37pm

re: #627 Firstinla

Does it make me a socialist that I take advantage of the fire department, libraries, interstate highways, social security, medicare, etc? We try to apply the label "socialist" to our leaders but tend avoid applying to ourselves. This is the disconnect I see made by wingnutia.

The disconnect is that they haven't actually thought about that. That's whats scary.

633 drcordell  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:46:46pm

re: #631 cliffster

Does anybody think that makes you a socialist?

They should. Anybody who thinks "ObamaCare" is socialism damn well should think Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Libraries and Interstates are socialism.

634 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:46:58pm

Stratfor on the Netanyahu/Obama meeting

635 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:47:32pm

re: #509 big wabbit

Did I turn left and stumble into the Huffington Post???
Can't tell anymore - As Sarah Palin has said - "They voted Sunday - We get to vote in November!! - Go Sarah - to take back our country !

That reminds me - has Larry Flynt completed his new movie, "Sarah Does America"? Last I heard, he had found his lookalike star.

636 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:47:40pm

re: #625 Stuart Leviton

A statistical mean without a standard deviation is useless; Avon does not give the standard deviation. Nor does Avon supply a link to the Harris poll so that one can evaluate the information for their own self. I reject the poll due to insufficient information.

But, but, but, it paints all Republicans with the broad brush of kookiness. Dan Rather is crying.

637 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:47:44pm

...and in the Senate:

Vitter Introduces First Two GOP Amendments
moments ago

Sen. David Vitter (R-LA) has introduced the first two Republican amendments to the reconciliation bill. One would repeal the "government takeover of health care." The other would prohibit funding for community organizing group ACORN.

TPM Wire

638 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:47:46pm

re: #625 Stuart Leviton

A statistical mean without a standard deviation is useless; Avon does not give the standard deviation. Nor does Avon supply a link to the Harris poll so that one can evaluate the information for their own self. I reject the poll due to insufficient information.

Huh? The mean is the mean. You don't need any dispersion metrics to understand it. Just as the percentages of responses reported speak for themselves.

How the poll was conducted may be relevant, but if that's the case then address it directly. Your points about means and standard deviations don't even make sense, let alone have any relevance.

639 Semper Fi  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:47:49pm

Back to work. That was a good break. Thanks lizards.

640 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:47:55pm

re: #633 drcordell

They should. Anybody who thinks "ObamaCare" is socialism damn well should think Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Libraries and Interstates are socialism.

As usual, your analysis and grasp of the big picture is simply stunning.

641 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:48:07pm

re: #627 Firstinla

Does it make me a socialist that I take advantage of the fire department, libraries, interstate highways, social security, medicare, etc? We try to apply the label "socialist" to our leaders but tend avoid applying to ourselves. This is the disconnect I see made by wingnutia.

No.

642 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:48:13pm

re: #614 SixDegrees

I looked over the proposal for immigration reform this morning. Not a bill yet, but there's little there I can object to. Payment of fines and back taxes in exchange for residency, the first step toward citizenship, with exclusions for criminal behavior and backgrounds. A requirement demanding that applicants speak English. Sounds OK to me. The only thing wrong is what's missing - a comprehensive plan to address how so many illegal immigrants wound up here in the first place, and put a stop to it so we don't wind up doing this every couple of decades.

Amnesty may not sit well with some, but the spectre of marching 10 million people back across the border in shackles doesn't sit well with me. We should have enforced border security and visa expirations more seriously from the beginning; once that ball got dropped, we got stuck with the current situation. Time to deal with it as best we can, try to take serious steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again, and move on.

You're right, and it's a much trickier issue than many people think. We're talking millions of people, thousands of miles of border and diplomacy with another country. Not to mention all the employers who benefit. It's not like a bill will be ready anytime soon.

643 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:48:49pm

re: #625 Stuart Leviton

A statistical mean without a standard deviation is useless; Avon does not give the standard deviation. Nor does Avon supply a link to the Harris poll so that one can evaluate the information for their own self. I reject the poll due to insufficient information.

This is all based on a leaked version. The full poll will be on Harris's website tomorrow.

644 Stuart Leviton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:49:11pm

re: #634 SanFranciscoZionist

Stratfor on the Netanyahu/Obama meeting

Thanks SFZ for the update. I feel worried about what Obama will say to Bibi. My poor Israel.

645 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:49:41pm

re: #619 Jadespring

If all that is okay then whats in the definition of 'social democrat' doesn't apply to say someone like Bush or Reagan or Republicans in general. I'm asking seriously what you think the differences are. Just trying to understand.

This isn't a satisfying answer - I'm guessing the term fits only based on a moving point of reference. If your left of the "Tory" or "Republican" or "Christian Democrat", then you're the Social Democrat. Sometimes that means you want national health care, housing like the UK in ages past, sometimes nationalizing other industries, sometimes looser immigration, sometimes tighter immigration, etc. It seems to only mean "center-left, " since "socialist" never got the bogeyman taboo there that it has here.

646 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:50:32pm

re: #28 Charles

This is the fourth or fifth poll I've posted here that shows similar results.

Even if this and the other polls can't be considered incontrovertible proof (in the legal sense) of the GOP's slide toward bad craziness, they show a rapidly disturbing trend in that direction.

Perception is everything, and the perception with the current state is that the GOP is courting and tolerating people whose principles are rotten to the core.

647 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:51:34pm

re: #636 CyanSnowHawk

But, but, but, it paints all Republicans with the broad brush of kookiness. Dan Rather is crying.

I think a number of other polls, by other pollsters, have shown similar results. Given the intensity and volume of current right wingers, is it really implausible?

648 palomino  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:52:10pm

re: #637 Stanley Sea

...and in the Senate:

TPM Wire

Isn't Vitter a little late on ACORN?

649 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:52:33pm

re: #648 palomino

Isn't Vitter a little late on ACORN?

A little late and a lot stupid.

650 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:52:40pm

re: #637 Stanley Sea

TPM Wire

Clearly, Vitter is a master of timing with that ACORN amendment. =P

Also, the idea of repeal having a chance in hell anytime in the near future is laughable. It's impossible, even if the GOP won every election in November.

651 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:53:04pm

re: #629 palomino

I think he and Schumer are working together on it as the Senate point men. This of course will mean charges of RINOism against Graham and a probable primary challenge for him.

I think this may actually be part of a Dem plan to get political mileage from the issue without necessarily having to pass a bill. If it's introduced soon, the teabaggers and some members of Congress will get even more riled up and their ugly populist nativism may even surpass what we've seen so far on HC.

The upside of this for Dems would be further solidifying the fastest growing voting bloc--Latinos. Remember back to 2007(?) when Bush brought up immigration reform--NYC, LA and Chicago all had marches of over 100,000 in favor of amnesty and in response to the nativist backlash. Few things will make voters change their allegiance as fast as being told "we don't want your kind around here."

Couple with high approval of HCR among Latinos (up to 80%), immigration reform could turn brown into the new black.

I have to agree with you. My hometown was actually sued by Judicial Watch since they didn't like that we had a day labor site so I know how ugly the anti immigration movement can be. I also realize that not all opponents of illegal immigration are bigots as well. Of course, if this does pass and Latinos become a strong part of the Democratic coalition there will be a lot of screams of foul play but it should be noted too that Bush courted and honestly quite successful Latino voters. I wouldn't vote for Bush if he ran today because of other disagreements but I have the greatest respect for how he handled the Hispanic community. He realized unlike many in his party leadership that most immigrants are just trying to make a better life for them and their families and that they aren't these violent criminals that some of the more bigger opponents of illegal immigration have made them out to be.

652 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:53:13pm

OMFG! Exremism[sic] ... and some fucktard is taking credit for the window breaks now.

“I’m advocating broken windows. I’m advocating vandalism," says Mike Vanderboegh. We spoke to him by phone from his home in Pinson, Alabama.

Vanderboegh is referring to his blog called Sipsey Street Irregulars. He says his invitation to “break windows…break them now” is behind the incident in Rochester and at least two others in Tucson and Kansas. The message to Democrats should be clear.

And of course, to keep things in perspective, the teabaggers are also calling for attacks on the children of representatives:

Slaughter has been at the center of the push for reform. Last Thursday she received a chilling recorded message at her campaign office. “Assassinate is the word they used…toward the children of lawmakers who voted yes."

Apparently, the FBI takes this kind of shit seriously...do these retards realize that it's quite easy to match a voice-mail to a phone log?

653 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:53:20pm

re: #578 SanFranciscoZionist

And, commenting on the chili story above, one man writes: Weaponizing food has been around for centuries. The Romans weaponized my mother-in-law's tuna casserole to defeat the world.

Probably not that far from reality... Garum

654 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:53:25pm

re: #649 garhighway

A little late and a lot stupid.

And yet, he's the one chosen to submit the first two amendments.

655 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:55:08pm

re: #653 oaktree

Probably not that far from reality... Garum

Fish-sauce, man. Every culture that develops one is not to be trifled with.

656 Stuart Leviton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:55:10pm

re: #638 SixDegrees

Huh? The mean is the mean. You don't need any dispersion metrics to understand it. Just as the percentages of responses reported speak for themselves.

How the poll was conducted may be relevant, but if that's the case then address it directly. Your points about means and standard deviations don't even make sense, let alone have any relevance.

Good points SixDegree. Please, see Standard Deviation: Wikipedia

657 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:55:30pm

re: #634 SanFranciscoZionist

The article states

Netanyahu appears to be calculating that given the U.S. need for a western balance of power, whatever Israel does now will be allowed because in the end the United States needs Israel to maintain that balance of power. Therefore, he is probing aggressively.

So, even if he knows he can get away with it, isn't he just picking a fight? Does he really need to do that.. stand up to the evil oppressor US? I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just don't know what the perceptions are I guess.

658 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:55:47pm

re: #595 torrentprime

Sell him part-ownership of the St Louis Rams as well and Rush will explode...

659 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:56:36pm

re: #626 CyanSnowHawk

It's a huge border, and all that's needed to turn public opinion against strong enforcement is a few dead immigrants, or better yet, dead immigrant families that died because they took insane risks to get around that strong enforcement. Never mind that too many illegals are working just a step or two removed from slavery as long as they believe they are under threat of deportation if they report any abuse.

You lost me. If you're saying the border should be left wide open to anyone who wants to come and go as they please, sorry, but fuck that, I'm not interested. Although your point about potential harm is well taken.

I'd suggest that the best way to close down the border is simply to remove the attraction of crossing it in the first place, by requiring either valid Social Security numbers or green cards (or perhaps some new mechanism) be recorded by employers and verified.

As for the huddled, oppressed masses - I just got through saying I support amnesty for those already here. Who, by the way, are correct in believing that they would face deportation if caught, for any reason, including turning in abusive employers. Although apparently, the porous border isn't as much of a problem as slack visa enforcement, at least according to an earlier poster. In any case, I'd rather have 'em paying taxes, citizens or guest workers or whatever, than working 'off the books,' which is what causes many of the problems you describe in the first place.

660 Nanook37  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:58:02pm

re: #625 Stuart Leviton

A statistical mean without a standard deviation is useless; Avon does not give the standard deviation. Nor does Avon supply a link to the Harris poll so that one can evaluate the information for their own self. I reject the poll due to insufficient information.


Well that is how polls are almost always released, and it has become common to release headlines from the poll first and then publish the complete data a few days later to keep it in the news longer. Avlon is just commenting on the poll, which was partly inspired by his book, he did not commision it or write the questions.

If you reject this poll for insufficient information you might as well reject all polls (which wouldn't be the worst idea in the world).

661 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:58:12pm

So, I wonder if they get their wish and in 2013 this health care reform is repealed, how will they react if Republican offices are smashed and Republican congresspeople threatened. It's just moronic what they're doing. Get over it. You lost and act like adults instead of children.

662 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:58:42pm

re: #633 drcordell

They should. Anybody who thinks "ObamaCare" is socialism damn well should think Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Libraries and Interstates are socialism.

Oh bullshit. Under that definition every government that provides even the slightest service to its population is socialist, which makes that definition completely meaningless and confuses the issue, just like Alinsky wants you to do.

663 Altermite  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:59:06pm

re: #625 Stuart Leviton

A statistical mean without a standard deviation is useless; Avon does not give the standard deviation. Nor does Avon supply a link to the Harris poll so that one can evaluate the information for their own self. I reject the poll due to insufficient information.

Your complaint would make more sense if it wasn't a binary answer.

Do you think obama is a muslim: Yes/No.

Standard deviations are useful when the variables involved are more... variable.

664 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:59:19pm

re: #659 SixDegrees

You lost me. If you're saying the border should be left wide open to anyone who wants to come and go as they please, sorry, but fuck that, I'm not interested. Although your point about potential harm is well taken.

I'd suggest that the best way to close down the border is simply to remove the attraction of crossing it in the first place, by requiring either valid Social Security numbers or green cards (or perhaps some new mechanism) be recorded by employers and verified.

As for the huddled, oppressed masses - I just got through saying I support amnesty for those already here. Who, by the way, are correct in believing that they would face deportation if caught, for any reason, including turning in abusive employers. Although apparently, the porous border isn't as much of a problem as slack visa enforcement, at least according to an earlier poster. In any case, I'd rather have 'em paying taxes, citizens or guest workers or whatever, than working 'off the books,' which is what causes many of the problems you describe in the first place.

I entirely agree with you.

665 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:59:48pm

re: #662 CyanSnowHawk

Oh bullshit. Under that definition every government that provides even the slightest service to its population is socialist, which makes that definition completely meaningless and confuses the issue, just like Alinsky wants you to do.

hahaha. You go boy! Er.. you go girl..

You go you!

666 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 12:59:59pm

re: #655 Guanxi88

So if the Vikings had successfully weaponized lutefisk Sweden and Norway would still be world powers?

667 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:00:29pm

re: #666 oaktree

So if the Vikings had successfully weaponized lutefisk Sweden and Norway would still be world powers?

They're not?

668 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:02:05pm

re: #667 garhighway

They're too busy consulting with Canada on how to weaponize curling stones.

669 Altermite  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:03:03pm

re: #666 oaktree

So if the Vikings had successfully weaponized lutefisk Sweden and Norway would still be world powers?

Not lutefisk, but still fermented fish, and still from sweden.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Check out the bit about several airlines banning it.

670 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:03:04pm

re: #659 SixDegrees

You lost me. If you're saying the border should be left wide open to anyone who wants to come and go as they please, sorry, but fuck that, I'm not interested. Although your point about potential harm is well taken.

I'd suggest that the best way to close down the border is simply to remove the attraction of crossing it in the first place, by requiring either valid Social Security numbers or green cards (or perhaps some new mechanism) be recorded by employers and verified.

As for the huddled, oppressed masses - I just got through saying I support amnesty for those already here. Who, by the way, are correct in believing that they would face deportation if caught, for any reason, including turning in abusive employers. Although apparently, the porous border isn't as much of a problem as slack visa enforcement, at least according to an earlier poster. In any case, I'd rather have 'em paying taxes, citizens or guest workers or whatever, than working 'off the books,' which is what causes many of the problems you describe in the first place.

Not saying that nothing should be done. Pointing out the magnitude of the problem. I live in San Diego. I despair at the flood passing through my city.

671 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:03:32pm

re: #666 oaktree

So if the Vikings had successfully weaponized lutefisk Sweden and Norway would still be world powers?

Yep; it's a cinch. Any culture that can master the military use of fish is bound to conquer.

By me, we used carp in our skirmishes.
Carp-o-gram!
Wherein a very large, very dead carp is sealed in plastic, left to stew in the sun for a few days, then hurled against adversary's residence or slipped into vehicle

672 prairiefire  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:03:56pm

Does anybody want to be a co-signer with President Obama on the Health Care Reform bill?[Link: my.barackobama.com...]

673 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:03:59pm

re: #663 Altermite

Your complaint would make more sense if it wasn't a binary answer.

Do you think obama is a muslim: Yes/No.

Standard deviations are useful when the variables involved are more... variable.

It is a binary question, though. He's either a Muslim or he ain't a Muslim.

674 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:04:10pm

re: #646 talon_262

Even if this and the other polls can't be considered incontrovertible proof (in the legal sense) of the GOP's slide toward bad craziness, they show a rapidly disturbing trend in that direction.

Perception is everything, and the perception with the current state is that the GOP is courting and tolerating people whose principles are rotten to the core.

One point I'd like to see addressed about the results is what the population consisted of. Results are listed for "Republicans" versus "Overall" without really saying what "Overall" means. Were only people who declared as either Republican or Democrat questioned? Or does the total include independents as well? Or something else altogether.

I'm interested because the answers in the "Overall" category itself seems surprisingly high. If the entire sample is the randomly sampled population, that should include a fairly small number of Republicans, a fairly small number of Democrats, and a whole bunch of "Other" or "Independent" or "Uncommitted" folks, implying that the prevalence of such views extends well beyond the GOP and into the population as a whole.

675 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:04:30pm

re: #672 prairiefire

Does anybody want to be a co-signer with President Obama on the Health Care Reform bill?[Link: my.barackobama.com...]

Did it this morning. Got the t-shirt, too (literally).

676 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:04:49pm

re: #650 Lidane

Clearly, Vitter is a master of timing with that ACORN amendment. =P

Also, the idea of repeal having a chance in hell anytime in the near future is laughable. It's impossible, even if the GOP won every election in November.

Perhaps Vitter suspects that ACORN has not disbanded but merely gone underground.
From whom would they be hiding though?
The FBI?
No, Obammunist henchman Eric Holder runs the FBI.
The military?
No, the Kenyan usurper himself is CinC these days.
Mind control satellites?
No, those are targeted against patriots and home-schoolers.

I've got it. They fear the burning wrath of the tea-partiers and have given up their efforts to obtain GPS targeting coordinates through the census, choosing to use Google Earth instead.

677 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:05:38pm

re: #645 keloyd

This isn't a satisfying answer - I'm guessing the term fits only based on a moving point of reference. If your left of the "Tory" or "Republican" or "Christian Democrat", then you're the Social Democrat. Sometimes that means you want national health care, housing like the UK in ages past, sometimes nationalizing other industries, sometimes looser immigration, sometimes tighter immigration, etc. It seems to only mean "center-left, " since "socialist" never got the bogeyman taboo there that it has here.

Okay I think I understand what you're getting at. I think though that it being based on a moving point of reference is important. For example one of the things I had to learn when trying to understand US politics was that the overall frame of reference of what is left and what is right is different then the one I play politics under. Even the concept of 'liberal' is used differently. I still have a lot of problems sticking Obama in a center-left position for instance if I was to do straight comparison. He's actually center-right and leans more to the conservative side of the aisle if I used that as a frame. Now in the context or frame of US politics sure maybe he is more left. It's the same for the two major parties. You have a left and right in your context. Not quite the same in mine. R's are quite right and very right in there current incarnation, Dems (in general) more center right.

678 Stuart Leviton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:05:50pm

re: #660 Nanook37

Well that is how polls are almost always released, and it has become common to release headlines from the poll first and then publish the complete data a few days later to keep it in the news longer. Avlon is just commenting on the poll, which was partly inspired by his book, he did not commision it or write the questions.

If you reject this poll for insufficient information you might as well reject all polls (which wouldn't be the worst idea in the world).


Thank Nanook37. And thank you for the insight into the business side of polling and book promotion. I tend to be a skeptical when someone tries to prove something with numbers. It's a habit I formed working at the NIH.

679 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:06:47pm

re: #676 Shiplord Kirel

Perhaps Vitter suspects that ACORN has not disbanded but merely gone underground.
From whom would they be hiding though?
The FBI?
No, Obammunist henchman Eric Holder runs the FBI.
The military?
No, the Kenyan usurper himself is CinC these days.
Mind control satellites?
No, those are targeted against patriots and home-schoolers.

I've got it. They fear the burning wrath of the tea-partiers and have given up their efforts to obtain GPS targeting coordinates through the census, choosing to use Google Earth instead.

Maybe they parked themselves underneath one of those Cheneyesque Google Earth fuzzy spots.

680 Stuart Leviton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:07:21pm

re: #674 SixDegrees
Hi SixDegree. Yeh, I too feel excited about reading the poll results. Gotta go. Love and luck to you and all - Stu

681 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:07:36pm

re: #663 Altermite

Your complaint would make more sense if it wasn't a binary answer.

Do you think obama is a muslim: Yes/No.

Standard deviations are useful when the variables involved are more... variable.


Altermite and Stewart Leviton,
There was a valid point behind some mangled words about a binomial variable. I have to run back to work, so I can't type much, but I found some broad context and posted it in #473.

682 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:08:46pm

re: #681 keloyd

Altermite and Stewart Leviton,
There was a valid point behind some mangled words about a binomial variable. I have to run back to work, so I can't type much, but I found some broad context and posted it in #473.

About binomial theorem he is brimming with a lot of news,
With many cheerful facts about eh square of the hypotenuse.

683 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:08:57pm

re: #659 SixDegrees

As for the huddled, oppressed masses - I just got through saying I support amnesty for those already here. Who, by the way, are correct in believing that they would face deportation if caught, for any reason, including turning in abusive employers. Although apparently, the porous border isn't as much of a problem as slack visa enforcement, at least according to an earlier poster. In any case, I'd rather have 'em paying taxes, citizens or guest workers or whatever, than working 'off the books,' which is what causes many of the problems you describe in the first place.

If you're getting tax revenue from them, why don't you want them here? Or, more specific to your point, why don't you want new ones coming?

684 jvic  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:09:48pm

re: #672 prairiefire

Does anybody want to be a co-signer with President Obama on the Health Care Reform bill?[Link: my.barackobama.com...]

I'll pass, thanks. With respect, I opposed the bill.
.
.
.
.
Hey, I passed the info on to Karl Marx, Saul Alinsky, and Benedict Arnold--and they all signed already!

685 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:10:06pm

re: #671 Guanxi88

The initial English attempt to weaponize pilchards did not go well. See The Fish-Slapping Dance (can't YouTube from work :p )

686 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:10:10pm

re: #682 Guanxi88

About binomial theorem he is brimming with a lot of news,
With many cheerful facts about eh square of the hypotenuse.

Don't EVEN get him started about rates of change. Oh man

687 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:10:56pm

re: #686 cliffster

Don't EVEN get him started about rates of change. Oh man

He is also very good at integral and differential calculus,
Knows the scientific names of beings animalculuous.....

688 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:12:07pm

re: #686 cliffster

Don't EVEN get him started about rates of change. Oh man

Had a Bulgarian statistics professor - fun lady - whose obsessive concern for us was nothing but rates of change.

Nice lady, but gah! she needed a hobby.

689 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:13:02pm

re: #670 CyanSnowHawk

Not saying that nothing should be done. Pointing out the magnitude of the problem. I live in San Diego. I despair at the flood passing through my city.

Oh, I know. That's why amnesty has to be part of the solution. If there were a few thousand offenders, or even a few tens of thousands, I could see rounding 'em up and shipping 'em out of the country. But with ten million or more involved, that's simply not feasible, and in my opinion it's the wrong thing to do, anyway. I figure we've pretty much bled Mexico and many other Central and South American countries dry of some of their most motivated citizens - might as well let 'em work legally, kick back and enjoy the fruits of that labor as a nation.

How to prevent it happening again is certainly a problem. As noted, one of the more effective things we could do is require employers to collect proper identification, and put some teeth behind such requirements so it's better for employers to comply than otherwise. Along with that, strengthening border security and making visa expiration enforcements more robust would also help.

Anyway, like I said originally, there's nothing I've seen proposed yet that I particularly object to. Maybe by the time the outline becomes an actual bill there will be, but so far it looks like a decent start, apart from it's omissions.

690 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:13:13pm

re: #688 Guanxi88

Had a Bulgarian statistics professor - fun lady - whose obsessive concern for us was nothing but rates of change.

Nice lady, but gah! she needed a hobby.

You may be bigger than I am, but my rate of change with regards to position is much greater than yours.

691 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:14:39pm

re: #690 cliffster

You may be bigger than I am, but my rate of change with regards to position is much greater than yours.

When I wrapped up that course, I enrolled in a TQM course. First time some jackass, soft-cover MBA spouted off about Six Sigma, I asked him if he should reconsider using terms the meaning of which are unknown to him.

692 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:14:50pm

re: #509 big wabbit

Did I turn left and stumble into the Huffington Post???
Can't tell anymore - As Sarah Palin has said - "They voted Sunday - We get to vote in November!! - Go Sarah - to take back our country !

Ahh, another low-post-count sleeper from the LGF Class of 2004 has graced us with their sporadic presence...

/79 posts in 5+ years...getthef**kouttahere!

693 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:16:28pm

re: #692 talon_262

Ahh, another low-post-count sleeper from the LGF Class of 2004 has graced us with their sporadic presence...

/79 posts in 5+ years...getthef**kouttahere!

Tell your story walking....... (one of my favorites)

694 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:17:51pm

re: #692 talon_262

Ahh, another low-post-count sleeper from the LGF Class of 2004 has graced us with their sporadic presence...

/79 posts in 5+ years...getthef**kouttahere!

I agree with it about Sarah. Go Sarah! And take Ron Paul with you!

695 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:19:24pm

re: #691 Guanxi88

When I wrapped up that course, I enrolled in a TQM course. First time some jackass, soft-cover MBA spouted off about Six Sigma, I asked him if he should reconsider using terms the meaning of which are unknown to him.

You clearly will never achieve his level of actionable drill-down out-of-the-box impactfulness with your helicopter paradigm.

Put THAT in rhyming verse!

696 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:19:49pm

re: #683 cliffster

If you're getting tax revenue from them, why don't you want them here? Or, more specific to your point, why don't you want new ones coming?

The needs of our own citizens need to come first. At the moment, we're faced with major unemployment, and we shouldn't be giving jobs to non-citizens or those not already approved to work here through visas or some other formal mechanism that governs immigration levels in balance with the needs of the citizenry.

697 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:20:10pm

re: #684 jvic

I'll pass, thanks. With respect, I opposed the bill.
.
.
.
.
Hey, I passed the info on to Karl Marx, Saul Alinsky, and Benedict Arnold--and they all signed already!

You left out Satan and King George. The wingnuts are displeased with your offering, but assume you'll do better next time.

698 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:21:22pm

re: #614 SixDegrees

Immigration policy has to be linked to the economy. An economy in net need of labor, as would be evidenced by a 3% unemployment rate or so and rising salaries would gladly absorb immigrants. An economy at double digit unemployment, still extending UE benefits, and an underemployment rate at least as high as unemployment can not absorb more immigrant labor.

699 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:21:31pm

Found this via Dave Weigel.
[Link: washingtonindependent.com...]
So let me get this straight Congressman Goehmert, we shouldn't have passed the health care bill because the senate was against it but now you want to take away the people's right to actually elect their senators. What a hypocrite.

700 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:22:06pm

Err I meant because the people were against it. Sorry about that.

701 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:22:44pm

re: #696 SixDegrees

The needs of our own citizens need to come first. At the moment, we're faced with major unemployment, and we shouldn't be giving jobs to non-citizens or those not already approved to work here through visas or some other formal mechanism that governs immigration levels in balance with the needs of the citizenry.

I support immigration reform completely, and I don't see anything to object to in this sentence. The concern should always be for the betterment of a nation. Well-planned and controlled immigration is almost always better for a country, which is why I support it, but I don't see anything wrong with worrying about how such plans will affect current citizens - both "native" and naturalized.

702 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:22:57pm

re: #696 SixDegrees

Our own citizens will not work that hard for that little money. Mexicans bust their asses all day, and they don't complain. They are very happy to have jobs.

703 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:23:06pm

re: #698 Rightwingconspirator

Immigration policy has to be linked to the economy. An economy in net need of labor, as would be evidenced by a 3% unemployment rate or so and rising salaries would gladly absorb immigrants. An economy at double digit unemployment, still extending UE benefits, and an underemployment rate at least as high as unemployment can not absorb more immigrant labor.

Yup. See above. I'm no friend of any kind of "open borders" policy.

704 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:23:09pm

re: #695 keloyd

You clearly will never achieve his level of actionable drill-down out-of-the-box impactfulness with your helicopter paradigm.

Put THAT in rhyming verse!

Bleh. Now I feel dirty just using all those words in one place, even in jest. I'm going away to wash my hands over and over now.

705 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:23:13pm

re: #695 keloyd

You clearly will never achieve his level of actionable drill-down out-of-the-box impactfulness with your helicopter paradigm.

Put THAT in rhyming verse!

I can write a washing bill in Babylonic cuneiform,
And tell you every detail of Caractacus’s uniform:

706 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:23:21pm

Slight OT, but Jonathan Chait has an interesting read on HCR, I think:

[Link: www.tnr.com...]

Essentially, Chait contends that what passed on Sunday, until recently, would have been considered a moderate Republican health care plan. Also, if Romneycare was to be taken nationally, it would actually be more liberal than Obama's plan.

I'll admit to not being as well-versed in the HCR bill that just passed as I should be, but that's interesting if true. If it IS true, does that mean that moderate Republican ideas are now socialist, or have we just gone that far off the rails with the opposition in this country?

707 ShaunP  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:23:46pm

re: #698 Rightwingconspirator

Immigration policy has to be linked to the economy. An economy in net need of labor, as would be evidenced by a 3% unemployment rate or so and rising salaries would gladly absorb immigrants. An economy at double digit unemployment, still extending UE benefits, and an underemployment rate at least as high as unemployment can not absorb more immigrant labor.

The only part that this ignores is that immigrant workers are also consumers. Yes, they are taking crap jobs, but they are also buying products and contributing to the economy to the extent that their crap jobs allow...

708 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:24:23pm

re: #509 big wabbit

Oh Dear Lord...Another from the class of 2004..
Go Sarah! Yea! Take back America!
You know she doesn't work for the people anymore right?
The quitter from Alaska won't be re elected again.. You know that right?
Go Sarah!
Dumb ass..

709 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:25:24pm

re: #705 Guanxi88

Barney: Hi Homer. Since they made me stop drinking, I've regained my
balance and diction! Observe: [does backflips] "I am the
very model of a modern major general, I've information
vegetable, animal, and mineral."

Homer: Oh, that's nothing. Watch this: [does cartwheels] "There
once was a man fron Nantucket, Whose --" [smashes into a
wall]

710 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:26:14pm

re: #707 ShaunP

The unemployed make for really crappy consumers. In fact we are really hurting the last decades immigrants with this near open border policy at hand. A nation to be willing & able to throttle the immigration rate according to your economies needs.

711 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:26:24pm

re: #709 Mad Al-Jaffee

Barney: Hi Homer. Since they made me stop drinking, I've regained my
balance and diction! Observe: [does backflips] "I am the
very model of a modern major general, I've information
vegetable, animal, and mineral."

Homer: Oh, that's nothing. Watch this: [does cartwheels] "There
once was a man fron Nantucket, Whose --" [smashes into a
wall]

Folk with my peculiar bent have got a real taste for Gilbert and Sullivan; it's insufferably pretentious, though, to pretend it's high art.

712 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:26:48pm

re: #696 SixDegrees

The needs of our own citizens need to come first. At the moment, we're faced with major unemployment, and we shouldn't be giving jobs to non-citizens or those not already approved to work here through visas or some other formal mechanism that governs immigration levels in balance with the needs of the citizenry.

A fair point. However, very few Americans would willingly work the jobs that most illegals are doing, and in the conditions that they work in.

As long as that holds true, and as long as certain industries (agriculture and meat, for example) depend on illegal immigrant labor due to their high turnover rates and conditions, then there will always be an incentive for people to come here and get jobs.

713 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:27:14pm

re: #706 Lidane

Slight OT, but Jonathan Chait has an interesting read on HCR, I think:

[Link: www.tnr.com...]

Essentially, Chait contends that what passed on Sunday, until recently, would have been considered a moderate Republican health care plan. Also, if Romneycare was to be taken nationally, it would actually be more liberal than Obama's plan.

I'll admit to not being as well-versed in the HCR bill that just passed as I should be, but that's interesting if true. If it IS true, does that mean that moderate Republican ideas are now socialist, or have we just gone that far off the rails with the opposition in this country?

I have no idea. We've come to a world where I see Bill O'Reilly as a sane conservative pundit. Saw his reaction to the gloomy reactions yesterday and I never thought I'd say this but "right on Bill, right on." Then again my problem with O'Reilly was more his personality than ideology. We have a common hero in RFK after all.

714 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:27:18pm

re: #702 cliffster

Our own citizens will not work that hard for that little money. Mexicans bust their asses all day, and they don't complain. They are very happy to have jobs.

Then those jobs will either see wages rise, or go wanting. If they go wanting, then immigration policy can be adjusted to allow more legal immigrants to enter the country and fill those jobs.

715 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:31:44pm

re: #712 Lidane

A fair point. However, very few Americans would willingly work the jobs that most illegals are doing, and in the conditions that they work in.

As long as that holds true, and as long as certain industries (agriculture and meat, for example) depend on illegal immigrant labor due to their high turnover rates and conditions, then there will always be an incentive for people to come here and get jobs.

I don't have any problem giving them jobs - see my posts just above - as long as they get those jobs legally, either through a visa or green card or some other sort of formal program that allows us to keep track of their numbers. If it's really true that they're doing jobs others won't take, let 'em. But make them pay taxes, and make sure their employers are treating them according to our laws.

716 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:31:48pm

re: #702 cliffster

That just is not correct at current unemployment levels.

717 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:32:09pm

re: #646 talon_262

Even if this and the other polls can't be considered incontrovertible proof (in the legal sense) of the GOP's slide toward bad craziness, they show a rapidly disturbing trend in that direction.

Perception is everything, and the perception with the current state is that the GOP is courting and tolerating people whose principles are rotten to the core.

Youtube Video
718 Super-ego  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:33:14pm

re: #509 big wabbit

Did I turn left and stumble into the Huffington Post???
Can't tell anymore - As Sarah Palin has said - "They voted Sunday - We get to vote in November!! - Go Sarah - to take back our country !

Don't worry, Karma points are overrated. :)

And Palin had her chance. America doesn't want her or need her at this time. She is collecting too much fringe static. It's shocking to moderate Conservatives, but happens to thrill the Left.

719 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:34:58pm

re: #717 Cato the Elder

[Video]

Nice find, sir! One of my favorite BEEB characters, in one of the finest BEEB series EVER!

720 ShaunP  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:36:55pm

re: #710 Rightwingconspirator

The unemployed make for really crappy consumers. In fact we are really hurting the last decades immigrants with this near open border policy at hand. A nation to be willing & able to throttle the immigration rate according to your economies needs.

Trust me, I'm not saying that an open border is a good strategy, by any means. Current policy needs to change. I just dislike the statements that people throw around, as if immigrants are parasites, sucking America dry. It's not that black and white...

721 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:37:56pm

re: #719 Guanxi88

Nice find, sir! One of my favorite BEEB characters, in one of the finest BEEB series EVER!

By gad! FU would get my vote.

722 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:38:44pm

re: #719 Guanxi88

Nice find, sir! One of my favorite BEEB characters, in one of the finest BEEB series EVER!

Courtesy of Jimmah, who's currently to tired out from (ahem) jet-lag to post much.

723 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:41:18pm

re: #720 ShaunP

Trust me, I'm not saying that an open border is a good strategy, by any means. Current policy needs to change. I just dislike the statements that people throw around, as if immigrants are parasites, sucking America dry. It's not that black and white...

Indeed. Gosh, look at all these problems caused by illegal Mexicans. We must fix this emergency. Wait - what problems, again?

724 DemonFish  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:41:21pm

re: #46 _RememberTonyC

By the way ... Jerusalem is not a settlement. As much as the palestinians and the political left seem to believe it is.

I thought this an intriguing statement from Bibi. What DOES he consider a settlement I wonder - is it the location, or the structure itself. Was he trying to distance East Jerusalem from other areas of the West Bank captured in 67? Not up on my Geneva convention, but legally speaking is there any difference?

725 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:41:28pm

re: #722 Cato the Elder

Courtesy of Jimmah, who's currently to tired out from (ahem) jet-lag to post much.

It's a funny thing; I saw the series and, aside from a few murders here and there (come now, we're all men of the world, we can take a broad, general view of things) he struck me as being about as close to the type of person you'd want in charge of things. That reptilian side to his character tells me he would, under the appropriate circumstances, do ANYTHING, and that is the secret of power.

And he's charming and erudite. And he does asides, but no one give HIM grief for it.

726 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:42:13pm

re: #722 Cato the Elder

Courtesy of Jimmah, who's currently to tired out from (ahem) jet-lag to post much.

Heh heh heh, you said....

727 blueraven  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:44:33pm

The Washington Post has a nifty little calculator on how the HCR law will affect you financially.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

728 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:44:50pm

re: #725 Guanxi88

It's a funny thing; I saw the series and, aside from a few murders here and there (come now, we're all men of the world, we can take a broad, general view of things) he struck me as being about as close to the type of person you'd want in charge of things. That reptilian side to his character tells me he would, under the appropriate circumstances, do ANYTHING, and that is the secret of power.

And he's charming and erudite. And he does asides, but no one give HIM grief for it.

Eh, that clinches it:

FU for President!

729 jvic  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:45:44pm

re: #697 torrentprime

You left out Satan and King George. The wingnuts are displeased with your offering, but assume you'll do better next time.

If my joke needs explaining, it's better to let it lie where it fell flat. So I will.

730 ShaunP  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:47:27pm

re: #723 cliffster

Indeed. Gosh, look at all these problems caused by illegal Mexicans. We must fix this emergency. Wait - what problems, again?

$2/lb strawberries?

//

731 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:47:53pm

Lizarddom,

Any one else listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast?

I've listened to a couple episodes and am really enjoying it.

732 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:48:30pm

re: #723 cliffster

Indeed. Gosh, look at all these problems caused by illegal Mexicans. We must fix this emergency. Wait - what problems, again?

Are they covered by HCR?

733 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:50:44pm

re: #725 Guanxi88

It's a funny thing; I saw the series and, aside from a few murders here and there (come now, we're all men of the world, we can take a broad, general view of things) he struck me as being about as close to the type of person you'd want in charge of things. That reptilian side to his character tells me he would, under the appropriate circumstances, do ANYTHING, and that is the secret of power.

And he's charming and erudite. And he does asides, but no one give HIM grief for it.

I agree, but I do wish he hadn't offed his little girlfriend (Susannah Harker) in the first part of the trilogy. The new blonde he gets in Part Two is one of those horrible Ann-Coulterish anorexic stick-insects.

734 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:51:52pm

re: #733 Cato the Elder

I agree, but I do wish he hadn't offed his little girlfriend (Susannah Harker) in the first part of the trilogy. The new blonde he gets in Part Two is one of those horrible Ann-Coulterish anorexic stick-insects.

He's a flawed man, in a few ways. Still, his taste in haberdashery, and his extensive education, make his taste in companions a forgivable eccentricity.

735 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:52:29pm

re: #727 blueraven

The Washington Post has a nifty little calculator on how the HCR law will affect you financially.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Interesting. It says I will be getting tax credits but I may have to face a death panel and possibly spend a decade or two in a gulag.

736 truth stick  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:53:00pm

re: #732 rwdflynavy

Are they covered by HCR?


Only if they fill out the census first

737 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:54:46pm

re: #735 Killgore Trout

Interesting. It says I will be getting tax credits but I may have to face a death panel and possibly spend a decade or two in a gulag.

You take the good with the bad, I suppose.

738 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:56:12pm

re: #735 Killgore Trout

Here's another interesting article with calculators & info.
"Steps you can take ahead of changes in coverage, taxes"
[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

739 drcordell  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:56:50pm

re: #662 CyanSnowHawk

Oh bullshit. Under that definition every government that provides even the slightest service to its population is socialist, which makes that definition completely meaningless and confuses the issue, just like Alinsky wants you to do.

The government providing income from the workers to those who are unable to work? Really? That's not socialism?

740 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:56:50pm

re: #735 Killgore Trout

Interesting. It says I will be getting tax credits but I may have to face a death panel and possibly spend a decade or two in a gulag.

Francis Urquhart on terrorism:

Youtube Video
741 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:57:15pm

re: #740 Cato the Elder

Francis Urquhart on terrorism:


[Video]

Give their mothers something to cry about...

742 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:58:13pm

re: #740 Cato the Elder

Sorry, Killgore, that was meant in reply to #734.

743 drcordell  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:58:16pm

The government providing books to those who are unable to afford them?
The government providing health insurance to those who are unable to afford it?

744 truth stick  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:01:26pm

Dang, I'm not eligible for any tax credits.....I guess I'm to have to a sit down with myself and see what we can do to fix that

745 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:02:22pm

re: #738 Floral Giraffe

Here's another interesting article with calculators & info.
"Steps you can take ahead of changes in coverage, taxes"
[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

Thanks.

746 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:02:26pm

re: #120 PT Barnum

Elitist is tea party talk for uppity

I don't believe this is true. Narrowing our word choices won't help any of us go forward toward a more color-blind society, if that is even possible. Uppity is what bigots screamed at African-Americans. It's adding another land mine to the field to associate elitist with uppity.

747 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:02:40pm

re: #740 Cato the Elder

Francis Urquhart on terrorism:


[Video]

FU on regime change:

Youtube Video
748 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:02:45pm

re: #731 rwdflynavy

Lizarddom,

Any one else listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast?

I've listened to a couple episodes and am really enjoying it.

I called it "George Carlin" 's history to a few people who were a little disappointed.

His 'how much did people used to beat on their kids' episode was a real surprise. I don't want to give any spoiler alerts, but the answer is "a lot".

749 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:04:15pm

Yep, day 2 of the "end of the world". All indicators are moving forward and in a positive direction.

Dow Jones Industrial Average (up)
10,888.83
+102.94 (0.95%)

Brent Crude Futures (slightly up) (USD/bbl.) 80.710 0.170

Stocks Advance, Commodities Erase Losses on Economic Outlook, Greece Aid Stocks rose and commodities erased losses as improved earnings at companies from Carnival Corp. to Bank of China Ltd. boosted confidence in the economy and European nations moved closer to an agreement for aid to Greece.

750 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:04:42pm

re: #745 Killgore Trout

I thought the article had some interesting points!
Like find a doctor now!

751 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:05:10pm

re: #746 Silvergirl

I don't believe this is true. Narrowing our word choices won't help any of us go forward toward a more color-blind society, if that is even possible. Uppity is what bigots screamed at African-Americans. It's adding another land mine to the field to associate elitist with uppity.

There is a distinction between "uppity" and "elitist."

"Uppity" are people who try to rise above their social status by their own achievements.
"Elitist" are people who think they are entitled to a high social status without making any effort.

752 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:07:06pm

re: #744 truth stick

Dang, I'm not eligible for any tax credits...I guess I'm to have to a sit down with myself and see what we can do to fix that

I'm not either...I make over a hundred grand a year.. Yet I pay 38 dollars a month in taxes less under Obama as I did under Bush..
wait..That's not right..That doesn't follow the meme damn it!.. So let's just say Obama takes 39 dollars away from me each month.. I'll be marching in the street with a don't tread on me flag...
/Not...

753 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:08:32pm

re: #751 Alouette

There is a distinction between "uppity" and "elitist."

"Uppity" are people who try to rise above their social status by their own achievements.
"Elitist" are people who think they are entitled to a high social status without making any effort.

Yes.

What I'm not accepting is the earlier comment equating the two as tea party terms, meaning saying elitist is just like the more racially charged uppity.

754 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:09:22pm

re: #751 Alouette

There is a distinction between "uppity" and "elitist."

"Uppity" are people who try to rise above their social status by their own achievements.
"Elitist" are people who think they are entitled to a high social status without making any effort.

Got curious and found this on the Online Etymology Dictionary:

uppity

1880, from up + -ity; originally used by blacks of other blacks felt to be too self-assertive (first recorded use is in "Uncle Remus"). The parallel British variant uppish (1678) originally meant "lavish;" the sense of "conceited, arrogant" being first recorded 1734.

755 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:09:37pm

re: #735 Killgore Trout

Huh. I figured with the amount I made that I was going to be paying a new tax, but I'm not. Neat.

756 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:10:39pm

re: #754 Gus 802

Got curious and found this on the Online Etymology Dictionary:

uppity

1880, from up + -ity; originally used by blacks of other blacks felt to be too self-assertive (first recorded use is in "Uncle Remus"). The parallel British variant uppish (1678) originally meant "lavish;" the sense of "conceited, arrogant" being first recorded 1734.

Yeah, and like many terms, taken over by those who would oppress and used as a weapon.

757 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:10:56pm

The Senate is working on the bill right now. If they make changes to it, it goes back to the House. The Republican strategy now is to introduce changes that the Dems will have a hard time voting against, but will vote against in order to not send the bill back. Here's one amendment reported to be submitted shortly:

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) is reportedly planning to introduce an amendment that would deny erectile dysfunction drugs, such as Viagra, to sex offenders. The purpose of such amendments is to force Democrats to vote against them.

Oh, and as I typed he's submitted more!!

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), known in the Senate as "Dr. No," has filed nine amendments to the reconciliation bill. One is a "bureaucrat cap," another is titled, "Congress Should Not Lecture Americans About Fiscal Responsibility," and one would send the bill back to committee until President Obama fulfills all his campaign promises.

TPM Wire

758 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:12:39pm

This just in:

Judge rules against lesbian high schooler in prom case

[Updated, 5:02 p.m.] In his 12-page order, U.S. District Judge Glen H. Davidson denied a motion for an injunction filed by Constance McMillen, a senior at Itawamba Agricultural High School in Fulton, Mississippi, against the Itawamba County School District's superintendent, the school's principal and its assistant principal.

In his order, Davidson ruled that McMillen failed to show that granting the injunction would serve the public interest.

Yep, more of that freedom and liberty at work once again.

759 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:13:32pm
There's flies in the kitchen
I can hear 'em, they're buzzin'
and I ain't done nothing since I woke up today

How the hell can a person
go to work in the morning
come home in the evening and have nothing to say

760 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:14:27pm

re: #757 Stanley Sea

Those amendments sound really mature.

761 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:14:48pm

US4Palin.com...just saw this site and it looked eerily familiar...a whois search showed it's owned by the same fucktard who runs hillaryis44.com

This is great news for John McCain.

762 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:16:12pm

re: #662 CyanSnowHawk

Oh bullshit. Under that definition every government that provides even the slightest service to its population is socialist, which makes that definition completely meaningless and confuses the issue, just like Alinsky wants you to do.

Not really, it demonstrates that any functioning economy is to some degree a mixed economy. I'd agree with you, except that the people running around pointing at Obama's 'socialist' programs don't seem to agree that governmnet should provide ANY service, at least half the time.

763 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:16:45pm

re: #727 blueraven

The Washington Post has a nifty little calculator on how the HCR law will affect you financially.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]


It says I'll have to pay a higher rate on my income from investments.

Since my investments aren't earning much, that's not much of a hit. Works for me.

764 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:18:57pm

re: #652 darthstar

OMFG! Exremism[sic] ... and some fucktard is taking credit for the window breaks now.

Apparently, the FBI takes this kind of shit seriously...do these retards realize that it's quite easy to match a voice-mail to a phone log?

Hopefully not. That asshole needs a stay in the Grey Bar Hilton to change his attitude.

765 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:20:32pm

re: #758 Gus 802

This just in:

Judge rules against lesbian high schooler in prom case

Yep, more of that freedom and liberty at work once again.

Activist judge at work once again.

Glen H. Davidson (born 1941) is a United States federal judge.

Davidson was born in Pontotoc, Mississippi. He received a B.A. from the University of Mississippi in 1962. He received a J.D. from the University of Mississippi Law School in 1965. He was a City prosecutor, Tupelo, Mississippi in 1965. He was a U.S. Air Force Captain, JAG Corps from 1966 to 1969. He was in private practice in Tupelo, Mississippi, 1969-1975 from 1976 to 1981. He was an Assistant district attorney of First Judicial District of Mississippi from 1969 to 1974. He was a District attorney of First Judicial District of Mississippi in 1975. He was a U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Mississippi from 1981 to 1985.

Davidson was a federal judge on the United States District Court for the Northern District of Mississippi. Davidson was nominated by President Ronald Reagan on July 23, 1985, to a new seat created by 98 Stat. 333. He was confirmed by the United States Senate on October 16, 1985, and received his commission on October 17, 1985. He served as chief judge from 2000-2007. He assumed senior status on June 1, 2007.

766 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:20:48pm

Back to work I go.

767 Decider  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:21:08pm

re: #62 eclectic infidel

And what percentage of them watch Fox News religiously?

I only ask because my friend's parents have gone completely Apocalyptic Fundamentalist Christian, think President Obama is the anti-christ, and keep Fox News on every waking hour.

Fox News should be treated as a terrorist organization.

768 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:21:32pm

re: #743 drcordell

The government providing books to those who are unable to afford them?
The government providing health insurance to those who are unable to afford it?

That's Socialism, meaning its Forced Redistribution of Wealth, which is Marxism.

-Glenn Beck (not kidding this time, he actually put a 'diagram' of this nonsense on his show just a few minutes ago)

769 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:22:03pm

re: #751 Alouette

There is a distinction between "uppity" and "elitist."

"Uppity" are people who try to rise above their social status by their own achievements.
"Elitist" are people who think they are entitled to a high social status without making any effort.

Or 'elitists' are people who are believed to secretly think they're better than Sarah Palin.

770 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:22:13pm

re: #767 Decider

Fox News should be treated as a terrorist organization.

Downding for over-the-top hyperbole.

771 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:23:21pm

re: #761 darthstar

US4Palin.com...just saw this site and it looked eerily familiar...a whois search showed it's owned by the same fucktard who runs hillaryis44.com

This is great news for John McCain.

What's the background on the Hillary site? I've never seen it.

772 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:23:26pm

re: #767 Decider

Fox News should be treated as a terrorist organization.

Uh, no.

773 jaunte  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:23:57pm

re: #770 Dark_Falcon

There should only be one SpaceJesus.

774 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:24:23pm

re: #767 Decider

Fox News should be treated as a terrorist organization.

Get real.

775 Virginia Plain  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:25:05pm

re: #769 SanFranciscoZionist

Or 'elitists' are people who are believed to secretly think they're better than Sarah Palin.

Are they also trained to wear bippity boppity hats?

Youtube Video
776 blueraven  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:27:37pm

re: #767 Decider

Fox News should be treated as a terrorist organization.

I think Fox has moved from news to advocacy, but your statement is way over the top.
I still like Shep. :)

777 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:30:16pm

re: #767 Decider

Fox News should be treated as a terrorist organization.

That you, Anita?

778 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:30:28pm

re: #776 blueraven

I think Fox has moved from news to advocacy, but your statement is way over the top.
I still like Shep. :)

Forget Shep. Megyn Kelly.

779 donna quixote  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:30:45pm

Something must be done about the border which is not the most hospitable habitat to begin with. Those crossing leave a big mess not only of garbage but endangering the wildlife and the desert in general. And the people coming north are not all the wonderful family people pro-immigration people claim. I would feel more inclined to say, "Give them amnesty" if they learned the language, sent their kids to school to LEARN, and stopped stealing our cars.
I am not an Obama devoteea. I think he takes first place in the egotistical category and his arrogance is second to none. I would like to know more about his background and how he got ivy league education and more about his past life in general. I am not young and I cannot recall a president about whom we have known less.

780 lostlakehiker  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:31:30pm

re: #104 SanFranciscoZionist

We abolished child labor. We got worker's rights. It was pure socialism, fought for by socialists and 'progressives', and ditzy society ladies, and dirty Commies, and we AIN'T going back.

Nowadays, of course, the same people who call Teddy Roosevelt a socialist argue that the Third World needs child labor and no factory inspections and machine operators making three bucks a month to survive and flourish, because they know no one here is going to buy it any more.

Abolishing child labor and enacting such rights as workers now have in America is no more pure socialism than having freeways is pure nazi-ism. In pure socialism, the government doesn't just regulate private enterprise, it shuts it down with the possible exceptions of garage sales and flea markets and vegetable stands. The perfect full-blown historical instance of socialism taken to its purest form is Cambodia's Khmer Rouge regime.

What we did in America was, we reformed things piece by piece, rather than establish a dictatorship so we could institute all desired reforms with abrupt finality.

Who argues for child labor in the third world? The third world's rise has required schooling for the children. In China, while the State has moved from being Communist to being pragmatically authoritarian and permitting private enterprise where it doesn't challenge the rule of the Party, they do send their children to school. [Better attention to school safety might be a good idea, though. First, we had that earthquake where most buildings stood but the schools crumbled, entombing the poor kids. Now, a mucker in Nanping. Sigh.]

Still, any school is better than nothing. Nations which fail to make education a priority must wait until the next generation, and then the next, for any chance at prosperity.

781 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:31:48pm

re: #778 cliffster

Forget Shep. Megyn Kelly.

She's hot, but she's a GOP talking point machine. Which means that as a newswoman, she's a big FAIL.

782 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:32:31pm

re: #779 donna quixote

Yeesh...

783 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:32:33pm

re: #781 garhighway

She's hot, but she's a GOP talking point machine. Which means that as a newswoman, she's a big FAIL.

Starbursts!

784 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:33:09pm

re: #783 Jadespring

Starbursts!

Exactly.

785 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:34:40pm

re: #779 donna quixote

"I would like to know more about his background"? Is it just me, or does that line send up a red flag big enough to serve as a blanket for anyone else?

786 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:35:33pm

re: #779 donna quixote

I would like to know more about his background and how he got ivy league education and more about his past life in general. I am not young and I cannot recall a president about whom we have known less.

So why not read his autobiography, or wikipedia, or one of the numerous other books or lengthy articles published about him? You apparently know nothing about him because you choose not learn anything. That does not make some secret conspiracy to hide his past, it just means that you are intellectually lazy.

787 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:35:33pm

You poor deluded souls! Ranting and raving on like a bunch of ranting ravers, when you could all be outside, here in Austin, on a glorious spring day.

(And you could help me load my moving truck. What? I'll give you a beer.)

788 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:36:32pm

re: #779 donna quixote

pinche cabron, all these Gonzaleses keep stealing my cars.

You're a dick.

789 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:36:34pm

re: #787 Guanxi88

You poor deluded souls! Ranting and raving on like a bunch of ranting ravers, when you could all be outside, here in Austin, on a glorious spring day.

(And you could help me load my moving truck. What? I'll give you a beer.)

Pizza and Beer?
I am so there

790 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:36:40pm

re: #785 Dark_Falcon

"I would like to know more about his background"? Is it just me, or does that line send up a red flag big enough to serve as a blanket for anyone else?

Seekrit Mooslem Communist AffirmativeActionRecipient ShapeshiftingLizard NaziSocialist!111!1!1!11!

...What'd I miss?

791 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:37:07pm

re: #789 HoosierHoops

Pizza and Beer?
I am so there

Who said anything about Pizza?

Eh, what the hell - Pizza for all!

792 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:37:45pm

re: #790 Varek Raith

Seekrit Mooslem Communist AffirmativeActionRecipient ShapeshiftingLizard NaziSocialist!111!1!1!11!

...What'd I miss?


Kenyan?

793 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:38:08pm

re: #792 Jadespring

Kenyan?

Dammit!11!111
:)

794 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:38:09pm

re: #787 Guanxi88

You poor deluded souls! Ranting and raving on like a bunch of ranting ravers, when you could all be outside, here in Austin, on a glorious spring day.

(And you could help me load my moving truck. What? I'll give you a beer.)

You're leaving our fine city today?

795 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:38:30pm

re: #787 Guanxi88

You poor deluded souls! Ranting and raving on like a bunch of ranting ravers, when you could all be outside, here in Austin, on a glorious spring day.

(And you could help me load my moving truck. What? I'll give you a beer.)

I'd do it for a Hansen's Natural Tangerine Lime soda (my new favorite). I've helped load/unload and pack/unpack so many moving vans, I should do it professionally.

796 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:38:35pm

re: #779 donna quixote

I would feel more inclined to say, "Give them amnesty" if they learned the language

One of the provisions in the proposed immigration reform bill says exactly that - in order to participate in the amnesty program, the immigrant must demonstrate English proficiency.

797 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:38:44pm

re: #787 Guanxi88

You poor deluded souls! Ranting and raving on like a bunch of ranting ravers, when you could all be outside, here in Austin, on a glorious spring day.

(And you could help me load my moving truck. What? I'll give you a beer.)

I'd help, but the maintenance guy installed a new garbage disposal in my sink, then forgot to remove some plug or doohickey from the damned thing, so now my dishwasher won't drain properly. I'm having to wait for him to get here. What fun. =P

798 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:40:58pm

re: #779 donna quixote

And the people coming north are not all the wonderful family people pro-immigration people claim. I would feel more inclined to say, "Give them amnesty" if they learned the language, sent their kids to school to LEARN, and stopped stealing our cars.

My experience has been that they are doing the first two in large numbers. I have no idea what the car situation is, but I have known a few American-born individuals to steal cars.

Is everyone coming north a good person? No. But neither are they an amorphous car-stealing mass.

I am not an Obama devoteea. I think he takes first place in the egotistical category and his arrogance is second to none. I would like to know more about his background and how he got ivy league education and more about his past life in general. I am not young and I cannot recall a president about whom we have known less.

And here we go.

What strikes you as more arrogant about him than previous presidents--not exactly a job recommended to the shrinking violets?

He got an Ivy League education by starting out at a very good prep school, and then going to Columbia and Harvard Law. Lots of people do this. It is not a big mystery.

What details about his past life do you feel are lacking? How would things be changed if you learned these details?

799 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:41:05pm

re: #218 Obdicut

Israel is more socialist than the US in a lot of ways, for example, and some socialist values-- like those of a Kibbutzim-- are highly valued.

Just a few Israeli economic paradoxes:

-Until 1994, there were no capital gains taxes on the stock market, and the tax on labor remains high and the average income remains relatively low

-Until 1996, most citizens could not legally hold foreign currency and it was a problem emmigrating with your money

-The health care system is a confused hybrid of public and private which somehow usually works (i.e. breast cancer patients will get access to Herceptin if they need it under the public plan), even though the Treasury keeps cutting the budget (sometimes patients are in beds in the halls) and gets to decide on the health "basket" of covered medications. Nevertheless, it's a decent health system.

On the other hand, sometimes the health decisions in Israel make no sense. Last year the supplemental private health plans were banned from covering out-of-basket cancer meds because it "wouldn't be fair" to the 20% of the population who can't afford the premium supplemental plans. So instead of finding a solution for the weaker 20% or expanding the health basket, the better-off can't have access to the premium cancer meds coverage. (Surprise, surprise, but it was an alliance of socialists and religious parties who torpedoed this reform.)

-One of the richest kibbutzim is rich because they host Office Depot and Ace Hardware on their land and are open on the Sabbath (when all other stores are closed).

-Some rich kibbutzim help out the weaker ones, and in some places a member can own a house and keep bank accounts and work as a professional (e.g. doctor, high tech employee, etc.) in the city.

800 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:41:09pm

re: #795 Silvergirl

You mean the mandarin lime? Yummy. The grapefruit one isn't bad, either.

801 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:42:38pm

Speaking of Bad Craziness, I got a fund raising letter from.... (drum roll).... Michelle Bachman. This thing is pure crazy in 4 thin sheets, but it's a blast:
After introing ACORN and their connection to Obama, this gem hits:


But ACORN is a corrupt group, rotten to the core. It's been investigated for voter fraud in 14 states and its workers have been caught on tape in 5 separate cities wiling to help set up brothels for underage illegal alien child prostitutes.

The thing missing from that last sentence is, methinks, "vampire hybrids". Or, perhaps, "Yeti elitist."

Cue the "under attack" meme, too:

Obama wants to use SCORN to radicalize America because he isn't interesting merely in defeating conservatives... HE WANTS TO ANNIHILATE US!


Emphasis in original.

Sadly, the letter was not sent with a postage-paid envelope, so I cannot decline to contribute while thanking Bachman for reminding me why I don't vote Republican right now.

802 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:43:17pm

re: #790 Varek Raith

Seekrit Mooslem Communist AffirmativeActionRecipient ShapeshiftingLizard NaziSocialist!111!1!1!11!

...What'd I miss?

you missed Glenn Beck's latest Opus:

re: #768 Dark_Falcon

That's Socialism, meaning its Forced Redistribution of Wealth, which is Marxism.

-Glenn Beck (not kidding this time, he actually put a 'diagram' of this nonsense on his show just a few minutes ago. He made that argument for Anti-AGW Action, Healthcare, and Education)

803 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:43:36pm

re: #801 torrentprime

Michele Bachmann is the correct spelling, of course. Apologies.

804 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:43:41pm

re: #778 cliffster

Forget Shep. Megyn Kelly.

Pfft. Shep has the luxury of open contempt for his colleagues and the job security to mock them on television. That makes him way cooler in my book. Heh.

Besides, he converted me into a fan when he yelled at Hannity during Katrina. I've liked him since.

805 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:43:43pm

re: #780 lostlakehiker

Abolishing child labor and enacting such rights as workers now have in America is no more pure socialism than having freeways is pure nazi-ism. In pure socialism, the government doesn't just regulate private enterprise, it shuts it down with the possible exceptions of garage sales and flea markets and vegetable stands. The perfect full-blown historical instance of socialism taken to its purest form is Cambodia's Khmer Rouge regime.

What we did in America was, we reformed things piece by piece, rather than establish a dictatorship so we could institute all desired reforms with abrupt finality.

Who argues for child labor in the third world? The third world's rise has required schooling for the children. In China, while the State has moved from being Communist to being pragmatically authoritarian and permitting private enterprise where it doesn't challenge the rule of the Party, they do send their children to school. [Better attention to school safety might be a good idea, though. First, we had that earthquake where most buildings stood but the schools crumbled, entombing the poor kids. Now, a mucker in Nanping. Sigh.]

Still, any school is better than nothing. Nations which fail to make education a priority must wait until the next generation, and then the next, for any chance at prosperity.

I never said the United States had 'pure socialism'.

806 garhighway  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:44:08pm

re: #801 torrentprime

Speaking of Bad Craziness, I got a fund raising letter from... (drum roll)... Michelle Bachman. This thing is pure crazy in 4 thin sheets, but it's a blast:
After introing ACORN and their connection to Obama, this gem hits:

Emphasis in original.

Sadly, the letter was not sent with a postage-paid envelope, so I cannot decline to contribute while thanking Bachman for reminding me why I don't vote Republican right now.

But her spelling's good. That has to count for something.

807 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:44:49pm

re: #801 torrentprime

I'm hoping that SCORN was in the bachmann original as well >>

808 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:45:19pm

re: #790 Varek Raith

Seekrit Mooslem Communist AffirmativeActionRecipient ShapeshiftingLizard NaziSocialist!111!1!1!11!

...What'd I miss?

Cylon. But there's nothing in the Constitution that says a Cylon can't be president, so that's OK.

809 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:46:07pm

re: #787 Guanxi88

You poor deluded souls! Ranting and raving on like a bunch of ranting ravers, when you could all be outside, here in Austin, on a glorious spring day.

(And you could help me load my moving truck. What? I'll give you a beer.)

Or you could be getting ready for 18 inches of snow where I am. Just started, I hope the power don't go out until after LOST tonight.

810 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:46:13pm

re: #804 Lidane

Pfft. Shep has the luxury of open contempt for his colleagues and the job security to mock them on television. That makes him way cooler in my book. Heh.

Besides, he converted me into a fan when he yelled at Hannity during Katrina. I've liked him since.

Not Shepard Smith

811 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:46:41pm

re: #808 SanFranciscoZionist

So long as they have been stamped "made in the usa"............

812 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:46:43pm

re: #800 Floral Giraffe

You mean the mandarin lime? Yummy. The grapefruit one isn't bad, either.

I like the Mandarin Lime with the sugar, but one of their diet drinks is Tangerine Lime.

813 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:47:20pm

re: #807 windsagio

I'm hoping that SCORN was in the bachmann original as well >>

Imputed Freudian slip! :)
(Whoops....)

814 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:47:27pm

re: #801 torrentprime

I have nothing for contempt for those still cheering on O'Keefe, calling him any form of journalist, or celebrating the way that the US government was manipulated into attacking ACORN. It was political skullduggery at its grossest and stupidest.

815 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:47:28pm

re: #810 cliffster

Not Shepard Smith

She's cute, but last I checked, I'm a straight gal. I don't want to get into her pants. Ergo, I'm not the one she's meant to appeal to. ;)

816 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:47:28pm

re: #801 torrentprime

Speaking of Bad Craziness, I got a fund raising letter from... (drum roll)... Michelle Bachman. This thing is pure crazy in 4 thin sheets, but it's a blast:
After introing ACORN and their connection to Obama, this gem hits:


Emphasis in original.

Sadly, the letter was not sent with a postage-paid envelope, so I cannot decline to contribute while thanking Bachman for reminding me why I don't vote Republican right now.

Still, send her the letter. It's worth the stamp to send the GOP your feelings. They need to hear that they're going over the top, and your view will be noted even if just on a list of respondee opinions.

817 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:47:35pm

re: #794 cliffster

You're leaving our fine city today?

Thursday; but I'll be back here EVERY freakin' day for work. I think of it as raiding a Blue City.

818 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:48:49pm

re: #809 Walter L. Newton

Or you could be getting ready for 18 inches of snow where I am. Just started, I hope the power don't go out until after LOST tonight.

All those people that were LOST...
Well they were all Found...
*wink*

819 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:48:58pm

re: #817 Guanxi88

Thursday; but I'll be back here EVERY freakin' day for work. I think of it as raiding a Blue City.

Watch out for Guanxi88 on the roads!!

820 sandbox  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:49:55pm

I'm a Republican, so I will take the poll:

1. Obama is socialist: yes
2,3,4,5: no to each

821 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:50:05pm

re: #819 Stanley Sea

Watch out for Guanxi88 on the roads!!

"RAAAGGGEEE WAAARRR!"

822 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:50:16pm

re: #815 Lidane

She's cute, but last I checked, I'm a straight gal. I don't want to get into her pants. Ergo, I'm not the one she's meant to appeal to. ;)

Again, I'm reminded of a bomb dropped by SFZ a little while back. Damn you, SFZ!!

823 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:50:29pm

re: #819 Stanley Sea

Watch out for Guanxi88 on the roads!!

Found my vehicle, by the way. A champagne-colored Mercedes 300d, with the w123 body, the way the Good lord intended. Man, if you're pointing downhill, got the wind at your back, and have the accelerator floored, you can get 0 to 60 in just under 10 minutes.

824 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:50:53pm

re: #820 sandbox

You should really figure out what socialism means >>

825 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:51:00pm

re: #820 sandbox

Sigh.

Socialism now means, apparently, "Anyone who thinks the government can do anything other than national defense and a justice system."

Was Bush a socialist because of Medicare Part D?

826 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:51:03pm

re: #823 Guanxi88

Found my vehicle, by the way. A champagne-colored Mercedes 300d, with the w123 body, the way the Good lord intended. Man, if you're pointing downhill, got the wind at your back, and have the accelerator floored, you can get 0 to 60 in just under 10 minutes.

Oh, and it's a 1984 model year.

827 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:52:14pm

Here's how an anti-reform protestor treated a guy with Parkinsons last week: Look at minute 1:07 This was shown internationally and made America look bad.

Even in a heated political battle, this was beyond the pale and represents the farce of "compassionate conservatism".

828 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:52:28pm

re: #820 sandbox

for answer 1 see:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

&

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

829 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:52:32pm

re: #826 Guanxi88

The good news is that you'll blow through ANY barricades they try to use to keep you out >>

830 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:52:57pm

re: #817 Guanxi88

Thursday; but I'll be back here EVERY freakin' day for work. I think of it as raiding a Blue City.

Buy a Viking hat for the commute. Then you'll really get the feeling of raiding and pillaging. ;)

831 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:53:18pm

re: #824 windsagio

You should really figure out what socialism means >>


so·cial·ism [soh-shuh-liz-uhm]
–noun
1. Barack Obama.

/

832 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:53:52pm

re: #828 wozzablog

You've gotta admit, it sounds scary and gives nice echoes of that simpler time, the cold war.

Back then he would have been a fellow traveler tho'.

833 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:54:32pm

re: #825 Obdicut

Sigh.

Socialism now means, apparently, "Anyone who thinks the government can do anything other than national defense and a justice system."

Was Bush a socialist because of Medicare Part D?

Of course. :D

834 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:55:19pm

re: #829 windsagio

The good news is that you'll blow through ANY barricades they try to use to keep you out >>

Even better news is that pedestrians and cyclists can simply stroll out of the way; no need to rush - Totesschneke can't run you down unless you're standing still.

835 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:55:20pm

re: #803 torrentprime

Michele Bachmann is the correct spelling, of course. Apologies.

Speaking of crazy lady, I was just flipping channels and there she was going wockawockawocka about Obama and socialism and gobbling up the student loan industry.
Then I flipped a few more and Beck had his big blackboard of doom out explaining how health care reform takes us from God to socialism though Obama (who was sipping the tears of Republicans on the Truman Balcony the other night to celebrate the destruction of America) and Tiddly Winks.

836 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:55:46pm

Here they go!

A Republican candidate for governor in New York, businessman Carl Paladino, said on a local radio show this morning: "The day that that bill was passed will be remembered just as 9/11 was remembered in history."

Polls show Paladino trailing the likely Democratic nominee, Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, by 29 points.

Thank goodness.

837 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:56:01pm

re: #822 cliffster

Again, I'm reminded of a bomb dropped by SFZ a little while back. Damn you, SFZ!!

I really didn't mean to shake everyone up that badly.

838 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:56:25pm

re: #834 Guanxi88

Yeah, I looked it up, that wasn't the mercedes I was thinking of.

They all do seem to be wine or gold colored tho >>

839 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:56:44pm

re: #837 SanFranciscoZionist

I really didn't mean to shake everyone up that badly.

Oh??? What bomb???

840 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:56:46pm

re: #837 SanFranciscoZionist

I really didn't mean to shake everyone up that badly.

That must have happened before I got here. Context?

841 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:57:18pm

re: #832 windsagio

Oh, without doubt.

842 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:57:21pm

re: #838 windsagio

Yeah, I looked it up, that wasn't the mercedes I was thinking of.

They all do seem to be wine or gold colored tho >>

I love the w123 - wife says "That car just looks like you would, if Germans had designed you."

843 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:57:23pm

re: #839 Varek Raith

From the context, my wild guess is that she said she sometimes swings both ways.


Like I said, wild guess, don't hurt me >>

844 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:57:33pm

re: #812 Silvergirl

I like the Mandarin Lime with the sugar, but one of their diet drinks is Tangerine Lime.

Ooh, I'll have to try it!
Thanks!

845 Cheechako  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:57:56pm

re: #787 Guanxi88

(And you could help me load my moving truck. What? I'll give you a beer.)

The very first thing to load in your moving van is an ice chest loaded with ice cold beer. Then, when you get to unload, there is an incentive to get the job done quickly.

846 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:57:57pm

re: #842 Guanxi88

OH zing! You gonna take that?!

847 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:58:30pm

re: #846 windsagio

OH zing! You gonna take that?!

I Consider that high praise, indeed. Besides, she drives a minivan.

848 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:58:40pm

re: #843 windsagio

From the context, my wild guess is that she said she sometimes swings both ways.

Like I said, wild guess, don't hurt me >>

Damn... I thought she had an actual doomsday bomb...
:(

:)

849 sandbox  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:58:56pm

re: #825 Obdicut

Hey give me a break. I voted "no" to the other 4 questions.

In Obama's speeches it's obvious he doesn't like the free enterprise system--dirty profits and all that. It comes across loud and clear.

In Europe parties identify themselves as Democratic Socialist--which is what the left wing of the Democratic part now is--including Obama.

850 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:58:59pm

re: #839 Varek Raith

somebody set us up the bomb?............

851 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:59:23pm

re: #850 wozzablog

somebody set us up the bomb?...

We get signal!

852 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 2:59:38pm

re: #825 Obdicut

Sigh.

Socialism now means, apparently, "Anyone who thinks the government can do anything other than national defense and a justice system."

Was Bush a socialist because of Medicare Part D?

No. 'Socialism' in American public debate currently means only 'something rammed down the throats of the American people by Democratic elitists'. Nothing Bush did could qualify.

853 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:00:23pm

re: #841 wozzablog

Oh, without doubt.

I hope Britain looks over some of the reform measures that President Obama's health care reform addresses and possibly consider modifying the way the NHS operates.

854 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:00:24pm

re: #835 webevintage

Obama (who was sipping the tears of Republicans on the Truman Balcony the other night to celebrate the destruction of America)

Caption this:
Image: sweetsweetrepublicantea.jpg

855 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:00:39pm

re: #849 sandbox

Barack is not a socialist and social democrats are not the same thing as socialists.

856 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:01:33pm

re: #843 windsagio

From the context, my wild guess is that she said she sometimes swings both ways.


Like I said, wild guess, don't hurt me >>


Before I got married, yes.

It seemed to be much more interesting than I intended it to be. ;)

857 sandbox  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:02:01pm

re: #855 wozzablog

I could be wrong. I thought the social democratic party in,say, France is socialist

858 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:02:03pm

re: #849 sandbox

At your argument's very strongest, he's still a hell of a long way from 'socialist'. Like Wozza said, the first real thing a socialist would do would be to try to nationalize our extraction and production industries.

As a meme, its unfair to Sociailists, and its Unfair to Obama.

859 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:02:34pm

re: #856 SanFranciscoZionist

trying not to make an old people joke >>

To us gen-xers and below, thats pretty much par for the course ;)

860 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:02:54pm

re: #836 Stanley Sea

Here they go!
A Republican candidate for governor in New York, businessman Carl Paladino ...

Polls show Paladino trailing the likely Democratic nominee, Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, by 29 points.
Thank goodness.

On Gossip Girl last night (don't judge me), a plotline involving local outcry in response to alleged sexual harassment mentioned a Christian travel agency. Upon hearing from his aide that "Christian conservatives" were upset at the allegations, the boss replied, "We have those in Manhattan?"

861 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:02:57pm

re: #857 sandbox

You can't really compare European politics with American politics...

862 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:03:05pm

re: #856 SanFranciscoZionist

Before I got married, yes.

It seemed to be much more interesting than I intended it to be. ;)

So did I. I went out with lesbians and straight woman :)

863 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:03:56pm

re: #860 torrentprime

+ for the 'don't judge me', actively made me laugh :D

864 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:04:48pm

re: #857 sandbox

I could be wrong. I thought the social democratic party in,say, France is socialist

I can't keep track of European parties for the most part. I can remember who's right or left of whom, but the details of who's technically what are difficult. None of the party names seem to say what they mean.

865 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:05:07pm

re: #859 windsagio

You know, of the people I know personally, all but one of the women, and like half of the men have expressed at least some interest in both sexes at various points since I've known them.

866 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:05:26pm

re: #857 sandbox

There are different terms at work here. This might help:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

867 sandbox  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:05:26pm

re: #861 Varek Raith

Why not? Obama and the left want the USA to be like European socialist governments. It's pretty obvious by now.

868 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:05:33pm

re: #853 Walter L. Newton

Already happening and happened.

The NHS is not the uniform monolithic organisation it was in the seventies.

869 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:05:53pm

re: #861 Varek Raith

I don't quite agree. You can compare them, as long as you're careful to note you're comparing places with very different histories and cultures.

And, if I'm getting you right, you have to note that economic politics in Europe tend to be far more in favor of centrally-controlled systems than in the US.

870 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:06:10pm

re: #867 sandbox

He's sooo far to the right of the European socialists... He'd be middle-right at least in Europe.

871 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:06:30pm

re: #867 sandbox

You're pretty obvious by now.

872 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:06:30pm

re: #869 Obdicut

I don't quite agree. You can compare them, as long as you're careful to note you're comparing places with very different histories and cultures.

And, if I'm getting you right, you have to note that economic politics in Europe tend to be far more in favor of centrally-controlled systems than in the US.

Yes, I can't explain things worth a damn.
:)

873 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:06:40pm

re: #870 windsagio

You know it seems that we have this convo all the time, and that people never listen >>

874 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:06:45pm

re: #867 sandbox

Why not? Obama and the left want the USA to be like European socialist governments. It's pretty obvious by now.

And the proof of this is in the protect-private-industries-and-markets-at-all-costs approach taken in the recent HCR bill. Sigh...

875 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:06:46pm

re: #859 windsagio

trying not to make an old people joke >>

To us gen-xers and below, thats pretty much par for the course ;)

Whatever. If only that were true...

876 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:06:58pm

re: #872 Varek Raith

Sith do not explain.

877 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:07:59pm

re: #875 cliffster

see my 865. And no, I don't live in SF.

878 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:08:14pm

re: #876 Obdicut

Sith do not explain.

Queens never make bargains.

879 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:08:25pm

re: #779 donna quixote

Tilting at windmills, donna quixote? Who's your Sancho in your quest to find out "the truth" about President Obama?

///

880 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:08:37pm

re: #876 Obdicut

Sith do not explain.

Which is why I fail at help desk...
XD

881 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:09:43pm

re: #779 donna quixote

IOW:
"Waah waah waah I'm a birther know nothing without anything better to do than whine. waah waah waah!"

William

882 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:09:45pm

re: #857 sandbox

It's a complex issue - which is why the bandying around of the term - which is traditionally a slur in the US political arena is both dangerous and wrong.

Social Democrats are social democrats, not pure socialists.

from the wiki, although there are many pretty good tomes on the topic.

The contemporary social democratic movement came into being through a break within the socialist movement in the early years of the twentieth century.

Social Democrats do not believe in privatising the means of production. They beleieve in mixed market economies and srong regulation.

883 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:10:58pm

re: #867 sandbox

Why not? Obama and the left want the USA to be like European socialist governments. It's pretty obvious by now.

You're confusing socialism with social democracy. They're different things. Most of the governments in Europe would have elements of social democracy, but they're nowhere near what people think of when they think of classical socialist thought.

Also, there is this, which is far more prevalent:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

884 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:11:08pm

re: #879 talon_262

Tilting at windmills, donna quixote? Who's your Sancho in your quest to find out "the truth" about President Obama?

///

She's got David Riehl as Sacho. He's good for unintentional Comedy Relief.

885 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:12:06pm

re: #882 wozzablog

It's a complex issue - which is why the bandying around of the term - which is traditionally a slur in the US political arena is both dangerous and wrong.

Social Democrats are social democrats, not pure socialists.

from the wiki, although there are many pretty good tomes on the topic.

The contemporary social democratic movement came into being through a break within the socialist movement in the early years of the twentieth century.

Social Democrats do not believe in privatising the means of production. They beleieve in mixed market economies and srong regulation.

Really well said. Bold added is for what the current issue is. Socialism is quickly degrading into just a slur on the left, at least in the US.

Who was it that said "Words mean things"?

886 sandbox  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:12:27pm

re: #882 wozzablog

Ok, then using your definition Obama is a social democrat.

887 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:12:30pm

re: #877 windsagio

see my 865. And no, I don't live in SF.

I was hanging out in the wrong joints.

888 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:13:22pm

re: #870 windsagio

He's sooo far to the right of the European socialists... He'd be middle-right at least in Europe.

Let's see.

Opening up a can of whoop-ass on the Taliban -- Check
Opening up a can of whoop-ass on Al Qaeda -- Check
Tip toeing around the abortion issue for the most part -- Check
Tip toeing around DADT and other gay rights issues -- Check
Supporting the Patriot Act -- Check
Preserving CIA renditions -- Check

Of course the above checks would be unchecks for the EU socialist checklist.

Nope, not an EU socialist.

889 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:13:33pm

Speaking of joints... Danny's All Star Joint

Youtube Video


It's not because I'm dirty
It's not because I'm clean
It's not because I kiss the boys behind the magazine
Hey boys?
How 'bout a fight?
Cuz here comes Rickie with the girdle on tight

And if she don't know your name
She knows what you got
From Your matzo balls
To the chicken-in-the-pot
chicken-in-the-pot
chicken-in-the-pot

890 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:13:52pm

re: #887 cliffster

well how old are you? :p

I'll admit my personal experience with guys (lol double entendre) is a bit off probably, but its almost expected for women to be (or to have been) a little bi amongst 30-somethings and below.

891 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:14:10pm

re: #867 sandbox

Mate, by your standards - the Conservative Parties in Europe are socialist.

American politics is skewed far to the right of the rest of the worlds center.

892 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:14:48pm

re: #849 sandbox

Hey give me a break. I voted "no" to the other 4 questions.

In Obama's speeches it's obvious he doesn't like the free enterprise system--dirty profits and all that. It comes across loud and clear.

In Europe parties identify themselves as Democratic Socialist--which is what the left wing of the Democratic part now is--including Obama.

You're a dipshit.

893 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:15:41pm

re: #886 sandbox

Pretty much.

Leftists and real live socialists tend to look at them as sell outs to *the man*.

They are not hard left.

894 blueraven  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:16:02pm

Ha! Vindication...Shep vs Megyn.

Here is why Shep wins. Hands down!

Media Matters Video
895 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:16:29pm

SoCons = Socialist Christians.
;)

896 sandbox  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:16:35pm

re: #892 Windupbird

Because posters who can't make decent arguments feel they have to resort to name calling.

897 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:16:45pm

re: #893 wozzablog

More to the point, on the subjects people are complaining about, his positions aren't only right, they're necessary.

898 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:17:01pm

re: #826 Guanxi88

Oh, and it's a 1984 model year.

W123s rock :D Now just drop the V8 from the Hammer in there...

899 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:17:14pm

re: #896 sandbox

Because posters who can't make decent arguments feel they have to resort to name calling.

Dipshit. :)

900 doubter4444  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:17:27pm

re: #644 Stuart Leviton

Thanks SFZ for the update. I feel worried about what Obama will say to Bibi. My poor Israel.

Are you American?
Or Israeli?

901 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:18:26pm

re: #890 windsagio

well how old are you? :p

I'll admit my personal experience with guys (lol double entendre) is a bit off probably, but its almost expected for women to be (or to have been) a little bi amongst 30-somethings and below.

That's a very personal question. Fortunately for you, I qualify. I wonder what my wife would say if I asked her if she can pretty please be a little bit bi

902 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:19:23pm

re: #891 wozzablog

Mate, by your standards - the Conservative Parties in Europe are socialist.

American politics is skewed far to the right of the rest of the worlds center.

Exactly.

Just like a Democrat and/or liberal here in Texas would be a moderate Republican anywhere else, the Democrats here in the States, despite all the braying of Limbaugh and Beck and the rest, are FAR to the right of the actual socialists you'd find in Europe.

Hell, they're even to the right of the Social Democrats on many things, since the most prominent Dems, like Obama, Biden, and both Clintons are closer to centrist, or even center-right by European standards.

903 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:19:24pm

re: #901 cliffster

It could be where we live/grew up too, a number of things.

I have spent my whole life in one of the more relaxed (if not liberal) parts of the country.

904 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:19:29pm

re: #901 cliffster

That's a very personal question. Fortunately for you, I qualify. I wonder what my wife would say if I asked her if she can pretty please be a little bit bi

As long as you're prepared to run away really, really fast...
:)

905 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:19:47pm

re: #771 Stanley Sea

What's the background on the Hillary site? I've never seen it.

It was a PUMA site put up as Obama was winning the primaries. Turns out the founder was a McCain supporter.

906 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:20:28pm

re: #901 cliffster

Back to my point tho', nobody I know well at all (in my age) would be even minorly tittilated by the idea that some chick used to dig chicks. Its just not exciting anymore.

907 doubter4444  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:21:12pm

re: #867 sandbox

Why not? Obama and the left want the USA to be like European socialist governments. It's pretty obvious by now.

Oh, Lord.
Not this again.

908 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:21:25pm

re: #901 cliffster

I can't believe I'm responding 3 times to one post, but I keep thinking of other things to say >>

Its also the wrong questoin: Proper would be, 'have you ever gone through a phase where...'

No, I don't blame you for not asking :P

909 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:21:34pm

re: #333 uncah91

I think there is a current trend to conflate socialism with regulation.

Government regulation is NOT socialism. Somehow people seem to think that if a regulation is passed that "interferes" with what a business can or cannot do, that this is socialism.

Medicare is socialism, because the government effectively prevents private insurance for those over 65 (except as a supplement to Medicare).

But regulating what a private business can do, like, say preventing melamine from being sold as milk, isn't socialism. It just makes all the private industries play by the same rules.


I'm reposting this because it needs tp be repeated :D

910 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:21:37pm

re: #906 windsagio

Back to my point tho', nobody I know well at all (in my age) would be even minorly tittilated by the idea that some chick used to dig chicks. Its just not exciting anymore.

That's so not true. What if you got to watc....no, wait, nevermind.

911 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:21:47pm

Cyberbullying lawsuit goes forward.

912 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:22:29pm

re: #910 Varek Raith

really hot chicks aside, that better? :D

913 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:22:35pm

re: #906 windsagio

Back to my point tho', nobody I know well at all (in my age) would be even minorly tittilated by the idea that some chick used to dig chicks. Its just not exciting anymore.

And that's the actual social change that the crazier part of the rightwing fears: not the destruction of the family or the elimination of parental rights or the other absurdities parroted during Prop-8 election time: the lack of social disapproval for what they view as a sin is what scares them the most. People care less and less every day about which gender a person dates - or dated.

914 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:22:36pm

In case anyone has missed it the biggest babies in the country are throwing a tantrum.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Way to act like adults.

915 keloyd  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:23:13pm

re: #905 darthstar

PUMA?
you mean this?

916 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:23:37pm

re: #906 windsagio

Back to my point tho', nobody I know well at all (in my age) would be even minorly tittilated by the idea that some chick used to dig chicks. Its just not exciting anymore.

Many of my female friends are either bi, or have experimented. It's especially prevalent in the nerd circles I run in. They also do a lot of crossdressing, costuming, that sort of thing.

917 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:23:52pm

re: #902 Lidane

Certainly center right on social issues.

In terms of regulation and wanting health and welfare provisions they are marginally center left.

Social Democrats are a strange bunch with very wide terms from center left to center right on the european spectrum.

The american spectrum is very different - and Obama is center left on your spectrum, center right in the Uk spectrum on issues of security, gaymarriage and a couple of other things.

918 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:24:18pm

re: #907 doubter4444

Seemingly.

919 jayzee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:24:18pm

re: #900 doubter4444

Are you American?
Or Israeli?

He could be both. Some are both.

920 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:24:25pm

re: #867 sandbox

Why not? Obama and the left want the USA to be like European socialist governments. It's pretty obvious by now.

Did you just get done watching Beck and his Big Board of Socialism?
From God to socialism though the use of health care reform.
That Obama, he is a tricky man...

921 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:24:40pm

BBL. No coffee for 3 days makes me want to...SMASH STUFF!11!1
:)

922 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:24:49pm

re: #907 doubter4444

Oh, Lord.
Not this again.

it's internet privilege night at the wingnut house! :D I wonder if they let Sandbox use actual forks there. He might hurt himself!

923 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:25:09pm

Obama's a socialist
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is

924 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:25:32pm

re: #921 Varek Raith

BBL. No coffee for 3 days makes me want to...SMASH STUFF!11!1
:)

It sounds like you are involuntarily giving up coffee. True?

925 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:25:58pm

re: #917 wozzablog

Except for Italy, which is way right these days.

926 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:26:28pm

re: #913 torrentprime

And that's the actual social change that the crazier part of the rightwing fears: not the destruction of the family or the elimination of parental rights or the other absurdities parroted during Prop-8 election time: the lack of social disapproval for what they view as a sin is what scares them the most. People care less and less every day about which gender a person dates - or dated.

*crazy high pitched old lady voice* THEy'RE MEN HOLDING HANDS IN PUBLIC! SOMEONE SHOULD STOP THEM!

927 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:26:35pm

re: #922 WindUpBird

it's internet privilege night at the wingnut house! :D I wonder if they let Sandbox use actual forks there. He might hurt himself!

Someone was ranting to me yesterday about the end of America that was signaled with the passing of hcr. He said, "No thanks! I'll take democracy over the King's socialism!"

The king's socialism. A royal socialism? A socialist monarchy? Is this all just epithet (to them) bingo and damn what it all means?

928 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:26:37pm

re: #923 cliffster

It was effectively dealt with upthread with analysis of his policies - if people read the top of the thread before posting tripe the repetition would not be required.

929 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:27:00pm

re: #923 cliffster

Seriously, anyone who believes he's socialist is not only a freakin' idiot, but is also intentionally closing their eyes to the truth so they can hate on him more.

The fact that it keeps coming up despite the constant brutal debunkings kinda shows this.

Its like "I hate Obama, and I hate socialists, therefore Obama must be a socialist!"

930 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:27:33pm

re: #923 cliffster

I'll settle this: he is not. he's a democratic president. :)

931 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:27:40pm

re: #926 WindUpBird

makes me think of the time your guy started hanging all over me in order to have some fun with the extremely gay guy at the edgefield >>

932 jayzee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:27:47pm

re: #644 Stuart Leviton

Thanks SFZ for the update. I feel worried about what Obama will say to Bibi. My poor Israel.

I think BiBi can handle himself.

933 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:27:58pm

re: #929 windsagio

constant brutal debunkings

Rotating title alert.

934 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:28:21pm

re: #930 WindUpBird

It is kind of annoying to have the 2 positions brought up as somehow equivalent.

935 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:28:35pm

re: #926 WindUpBird

*crazy high pitched old lady voice* THEy'RE MEN HOLDING HANDS IN PUBLIC! SOMEONE SHOULD STOP THEM!

Some people canceled their subscriptions to WaPost after a write-up about SSM in the capital included this photo in the article.

936 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:28:43pm

re: #914 webevintage

In case anyone has missed it the biggest babies in the country are throwing a tantrum.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Way to act like adults.

Yay! We're screwing the American people who voted for us! Oh, it's 2pm...time to go on Fox news and complain about not being allowed to participate...

937 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:28:49pm

re: #933 wrenchwench

I feel dumb, what's that even mean? >>

938 bratwurst  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:29:05pm

re: #923 cliffster

Obama's a socialist
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is
no he's not
yes he is

Way to spoil the ending of this thread for me!

939 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:29:59pm

re: #916 WindUpBird

Many of my female friends are either bi, or have experimented. It's especially prevalent in the nerd circles I run in. They also do a lot of crossdressing, costuming, that sort of thing.

You're a gamer. Gamers often dress up in costumes, which other people find weird. I'm a gamer as well.

940 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:30:09pm

re: #851 Varek Raith

Main screen turn on........

941 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:30:26pm

re: #927 torrentprime

Someone was ranting to me yesterday about the end of America that was signaled with the passing of hcr. He said, "No thanks! I'll take democracy over the King's socialism!"

The king's socialism. A royal socialism? A socialist monarchy? Is this all just epithet (to them) bingo and damn what it all means?

oh man, they're just losing their mud on the radio. I flipped on some AM right wing talk, and the callers are A) ALL REPEATING THE COMMERCE CLAUSE TALKING POINT, and B) talking about how america is doomed. :D

Bunch of weak little turds. Mentally ill idiots and lunatics. I don't remember thinking America was doomed when Bush won re-election. I remember thinking "Well, crap. I guess I'm not really surprised."

942 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:30:34pm

re: #901 cliffster

That's a very personal question. Fortunately for you, I qualify. I wonder what my wife would say if I asked her if she can pretty please be a little bit bi


Well, I don't really know either of you, but what would you say to that question? ;)

943 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:30:48pm

re: #936 darthstar

It was fun, one of them was on Morning Edition this morning, and you know how NPR interviews are, all low sound and politeness.

You could hear the anger actually seeping into the interviewers voice as she asked questions like "If you've stated that you'll intentionally try to block everything, how can you say you were excluded?"

944 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:31:31pm

re: #939 Dark_Falcon

ok, seriously, now I wanna see photos >>

945 prairiefire  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:31:40pm

10 tips to fight cyber -bullying[Link: interact.stltoday.com...]

946 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:32:26pm

re: #942 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I don't really know either of you, but what would you say to that question? ;)

heh heh heh. You suck.

947 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:32:28pm

re: #934 windsagio

It is kind of annoying to have the 2 positions brought up as somehow equivalent.

It's fucking retarded is what it is.

But that's where we're at!

"We examine both sides of the issue: Is Obama a treasonous socialist pedophile? Or is he just a normal treasonous socalist?

948 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:32:31pm

re: #890 windsagio

I'll admit my personal experience with guys (lol double entendre) is a bit off probably, but its almost expected for women to be (or to have been) a little bi amongst 30-somethings and below.

re: #916 WindUpBird

Many of my female friends are either bi, or have experimented. It's especially prevalent in the nerd circles I run in. They also do a lot of crossdressing, costuming, that sort of thing.

I'll freely admit to having had my share of experimentation when I was in my 20's. I can still appreciate a woman aesthetically, too, and have no problems being affectionate with my female friends or even kissing them. However, I'm definitely all about men when it comes to relationships, and who I want to spend my life with.

re: #939 Dark_Falcon

You're a gamer. Gamers often dress up in costumes, which other people find weird. I'm a gamer as well.

Well, there's that too. I'm a gamer as well, so I guess the experimentation and all that comes with the territory. ;)

949 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:32:54pm

ALERT...

For you LOST fans. Reminder... tonight, the last season, episode nine "Ab Aeterno" (for all time, forever, for eternity)... finally for LOST fans who have been waiting six years to Richard Alpert's back story, tonight may be the night. It's finally a Richard centric episode. How did the Black Rock end up in the middle of The Island?

950 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:33:07pm

re: #944 windsagio

i'm finally past my number of comments with my karma............. :-)

thanks for the help the other night ;-)

951 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:33:25pm

re: #948 Lidane

see that's the thing, I think its actually just an accepted phase of growing up.

Well for women anyways, not so much for guys, at least yet :p

952 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:34:15pm

re: #947 WindUpBird

It's fucking retarded is what it is.

But that's where we're at!

"We examine both sides of the issue: Is Obama a treasonous socialist pedophile? Or is he just a normal treasonous socalist?

And our "liberal" media does buy into the rightwing frame too much. On CNN the other day, before breaking for commercial, an anchor led out with, "They've passed HCR. Now, we look at what it will cost the Democrats and President Obama...and all of us."
DUN DUN!

953 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:34:16pm

re: #914 webevintage

In case anyone has missed it the biggest babies in the country are throwing a tantrum.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Way to act like adults.

I have to repost this - it just blows my little mind - some of the amendments offered today:

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), known in the Senate as "Dr. No," has filed nine amendments to the reconciliation bill. One is a "bureaucrat cap," another is titled, "Congress Should Not Lecture Americans About Fiscal Responsibility," and one would send the bill back to committee until President Obama fulfills all his campaign promises.

954 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:34:20pm

re: #944 windsagio

ok, seriously, now I wanna see photos >>

Here he is...

955 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:34:23pm

re: #950 wozzablog

<3

Having Ice and Jimmah off doing the lovebird thing is simple murder on my balance btw >>

956 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:34:39pm

re: #939 Dark_Falcon

You're a gamer. Gamers often dress up in costumes, which other people find weird. I'm a gamer as well.

actually, i've never done any costuming related to gaming. i'm a furry, the costume photo is my avatar. Nobody knows your gender when you're running around in a foam bird head :D

957 sandbox  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:34:47pm

Folks here are sure sensitive to a description of Obama as a social democrat. I have not called him names nor do I have anything to do with the birther accusations or secret Muslim and so on.

958 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:35:17pm

re: #952 torrentprime

And our "liberal" media does buy into the rightwing frame too much. On CNN the other day, before breaking for commercial, an anchor led out with, "They've passed HCR. Now, we look at what it will cost the Democrats and President Obama...and all of us."
DUN DUN!

Next on CNN! We prey on anxiety and repeat talking points!

959 prairiefire  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:35:21pm

I will admit my libido was a lot stronger in my 20's. Didn't experiment, but I sure had some hellacious dreams. Things seem to settle down later./

960 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:35:27pm

re: #954 darthstar

That's a seriously great costume...

But, a minor quibble: what actual woman would wear stockings with such an ugly obvious seam on 'em?

961 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:35:32pm

re: #928 wozzablog

It was effectively dealt with upthread with analysis of his policies - if people read the top of the thread before posting tripe the repetition would not be required.

I do that, but then I have to comment all the way down, and I drive people crazy with it.

962 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:35:38pm

re: #951 windsagio

Experimenting with other women is par for the course for young men ;-)

963 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:35:39pm

re: #858 windsagio

At your argument's very strongest, he's still a hell of a long way from 'socialist'. Like Wozza said, the first real thing a socialist would do would be to try to nationalize our extraction and production industries.

As a meme, its unfair to Sociailists, and its Unfair to Obama.

Is not.

964 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:36:11pm

re: #937 windsagio

I feel dumb, what's that even mean? >>

Rotating titles used to appear at the top of your screen, where mine says right now, "Little Green Footballs - Bad Craziness Dominates GOP - Mozilla Firefox." Now they appear in the upper right hand corner just above the "Follow me on Twitter" link. Mine right now says "You guys just halve no clue." which was originally stated by a troll, IIRC. Which is the source for a lot of rotating titles. A different one appears with each refresh of the page. My favorite one is "Just a guy with a tool box" which was intended as a slur against Charles by some pseudo-journalist.

965 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:36:20pm

re: #948 Lidane

I'll freely admit to having had my share of experimentation when I was in my 20's.

Me too. Fortunately, I figured out which team I was on and stopped fooling around with girls. ;)

966 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:36:22pm

re: #955 windsagio

you haven't slipped behind yet though......

967 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:36:24pm

re: #963 Silvergirl

:D That was good :)

968 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:36:46pm

re: #957 sandbox

"Folks here" are sensitive to people making aggravatingly silly statements, like claiming that Obama wants the US to become a European style socialist country.

Or I am, anyway. I don't have any mice in my pockets.

Do you understand that comparing him to a social democrat is very off-base in about fifty different ways?

969 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:36:54pm

re: #954 darthstar

Here he is...

No no no!

970 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:37:18pm

re: #961 SanFranciscoZionist

I do that, but then I have to comment all the way down, and I drive people crazy with it.

Nah, some of us like it!

971 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:37:28pm

re: #957 sandbox

Folks here are sure sensitive to a description of Obama as a social democrat. I have not called him names nor do I have anything to do with the birther accusations or secret Muslim and so on.

No, we're not sensitive. You're a fool who doesn't know what you're talking about, so we're mocking you.

Go back to junior high and learn a couple things about political parties in other countries.

972 tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:37:42pm

Viva La Beck!!!!!!!!

973 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:37:50pm

re: #957 sandbox

well its still kind of wrong.

Anyways, we're still mostly still responding to the insane (and prevalent) accusation that he's a socialist.

You can't retroactively change what you said.

974 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:38:19pm

re: #967 windsagio

:D That was good :)

Darn you! You're supposed to say, "Is so!" and use one of the tongue sticking out smiley things. Then I could say, "Is not!" again. Guess I'll go skip rocks.

975 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:38:21pm

re: #953 Stanley Sea

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), known in the Senate as "Dr. No," has filed nine amendments to the reconciliation bill. One is a "bureaucrat cap," another is titled, "Congress Should Not Lecture Americans About Fiscal Responsibility," and one would send the bill back to committee until President Obama fulfills all his campaign promises.

So all bets are off the crazy?
Well then I want a Dem to file ones entitled:

"Does Boehner's Tears Taste Like Orange Crush?"
"Is Rep. Bachman Nuts or Just Off Her Meds?"
"How many Licks DOES it Take to Get to the Center of a Tootsie Pop?"

976 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:38:22pm

re: #960 windsagio

That's a seriously great costume...

But, a minor quibble: what actual woman would wear stockings with such an ugly obvious seam on 'em?

I like seams! Seams are cool, they provide visual interest :D

977 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:38:45pm

re: #964 wrenchwench

I've got "The extreme end of a new dichotomy."
just now!

978 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:39:44pm

re: #976 WindUpBird

you have to admit, those seams (in the photo) are damn unsightly.

They seem like they'd be better with colored socks, not those hosey things he's wearing.

979 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:39:52pm

Note to self: chicken skin rots really fast even in the refrigerator.

980 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:40:12pm

re: #979 SixDegrees

Noted, and EWWW!

981 sandbox  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:40:29pm

re: #968 Obdicut

First I said Obama is a socialist. Then, based on objections, I revised it to a social democrat. Apparently even that's not acceptable. So what description is OK with you?

982 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:40:32pm

re: #980 windsagio

wait, I"m not 6'. PARADOX!!!

983 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:40:33pm

So anyone who thinks that Health Acre Reform is unconstituional?

Have a gander at Yale Law School's assessment! Link to all your friends, and let's flush this ludicrous GOP talking point down the shitter.

984 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:40:47pm

re: #983 WindUpBird

health acre! PIMF XD

985 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:40:58pm

re: #978 windsagio

you have to admit, those seams (in the photo) are damn unsightly.

They seem like they'd be better with colored socks, not those hosey things he's wearing.

Are we talking about the same photo that Darth posted? It's Sarah Palin playing war games!

986 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:40:58pm

re: #965 torrentprime

Me too. Fortunately, I figured out which team I was on and stopped fooling around with girls. ;)

I was reading a Tamar Myers mystery--they're set in Amish country--and at one point the Mennonite main character explains politely that their police chief was 'chosen by the Lord to bat for the other team'. For some reason, that euphemism made me smile quite a lot.

987 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:41:10pm

re: #984 WindUpBird

I was gonna say "I wanna live there!" but you fixed it too fast >>

988 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:41:29pm

re: #981 sandbox

First I said Obama is a socialist. Then, based on objections, I revised it to a social democrat. Apparently even that's not acceptable. So what description is OK with you?

He's a conservative.

989 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:41:45pm

re: #986 SanFranciscoZionist

I was reading a Tamar Myers mystery--they're set in Amish country--and at one point the Mennonite main character explains politely that their police chief was 'chosen by the Lord to bat for the other team'. For some reason, that euphemism made me smile quite a lot.

That's fantastic. Writing that one down (well, cut and paste).

990 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:41:48pm

re: #985 Stanley Sea

yes :p And her stockings are ugly :p

My only conceit is that its an amazing costume someone's wearing ;)

991 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:42:07pm

re: #957 sandbox

Your opening gambit was not by way of calling him a social democrat.

Also 867 - yeah, not so much.

992 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:42:28pm

re: #981 sandbox

First I said Obama is a socialist. Then, based on objections, I revised it to a social democrat. Apparently even that's not acceptable. So what description is OK with you?

He's an American Democrat. he's center-left, firmly within the mainstream middle of American politics.

Any other questions?

993 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:42:59pm

re: #992 WindUpBird

He's an American Democrat. he's center-left, firmly within the mainstream middle of American politics.

Any other questions?

Yes... how old is he, and does he date?

994 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:43:01pm

re: #951 windsagio

see that's the thing, I think its actually just an accepted phase of growing up.

Well for women anyways, not so much for guys, at least yet :p

Yeah, it's pretty much par for the course these days. If a woman in her 30's didn't have an experimental phase in her 20's, it's usually a surprise to me. Most of the women I know definitely have.

re: #965 torrentprime

Me too. Fortunately, I figured out which team I was on and stopped fooling around with girls. ;)

I always knew what team I played on. I just decided that I was entitled to have some fun. Besides, why turn down a hot, interested party if they want you? Heh.

I don't regret it at all. Don't see a need to do it again, but it was fun while it lasted. :)

995 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:43:03pm

re: #991 wozzablog

people need to learn how to back down with some good grace.

"Yes I was mistaken in calling him a socialist"

Its not hard >>

996 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:43:19pm

re: #981 sandbox

First I said Obama is a socialist. Then, based on objections, I revised it to a social democrat. Apparently even that's not acceptable. So what description is OK with you?

An accurate one. It's not about what's acceptable, it's about what bears any relationship to reality.

I'm not sure what you're not getting about that. You seem to think you're playing a game where the object is to somehow get the 'socialist' meme to stick. That's mostly a game that wingnuts play, and it's pretty boring for everyone else.

997 jayzee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:43:36pm

re: #983 WindUpBird

So anyone who thinks that Health Acre Reform is unconstituional?

Have a gander at Yale Law School's assessment! Link to all your friends, and let's flush this ludicrous GOP talking point down the shitter.

Sadly there's nothing unconstitutional about health care bill. It's the law.

998 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:43:48pm

re: #993 Walter L. Newton

Yes... how old is he, and does he date?

I think FLOTUS would object :D

999 sandbox  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:44:11pm

re: #973 windsagio

Why can't I retroactively change what I said based on our conversation?

1000 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:44:23pm

1000

1001 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:44:34pm

re: #981 sandbox

President Of the United States of America (D) is a good one to start with.

1002 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:44:36pm

Sorry...had to do that as someone else did it yesterday.

1003 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:44:46pm

re: #996 Obdicut

yeah you said it better than I did...

It seems like it's all about making the word 'socialist' stick somewhere in the descriptor no matter what, and that's kinda messed up.

1004 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:44:47pm

re: #999 sandbox

Why can't I retroactively change what I said based on our conversation?

Because you lack a time machine?

1005 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:44:56pm

re: #1000 darthstar

1000

Is that you, tfk?

1006 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:45:13pm

re: #1000 darthstar

/report to carousel!

(Yes I stole it :p)

1007 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:45:15pm

re: #1001 wozzablog

President Of the United States of America (D) is a good one to start with.

Socialist socialey social socialist liberal marxist nazi democrat HBLGGBVHGHGh

1008 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:45:41pm

re: #1005 wrenchwench

Is that you, tfk?

Who's tfk? That was the first, and last, time I'll do that. Maybe I'll report myself to Charles so I don't do it again.

1009 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:45:58pm

re: #1004 Obdicut

Because you lack a time machine?

And the ability to spin the earth t'other way 'round.

1010 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:46:03pm

re: #981 sandbox

First I said Obama is a socialist. Then, based on objections, I revised it to a social democrat. Apparently even that's not acceptable. So what description is OK with you?

There's sort of no such thing in the US as a social democrat, it just doesn't mean anything.

In the half-inch wide range of ideology that can get anywhere in our admittedly politically unadventurous nation (we are the country that only likes chocolate ice cream, chicken nuggests and one brand of mayonnaise) I would say Obama is Just Another Democrat.

1011 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:46:17pm

re: #1008 darthstar

pff I think its always worth doing if you can hit it.

Worth it alone for the chance to miss and be mercilessly mocked.

1012 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:46:29pm

re: #1004 Obdicut

Because you lack a time machine?

MARTY!

1013 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:46:47pm

re: #1011 windsagio

pff I think its always worth doing if you can hit it.

Worth it alone for the chance to miss and be mercilessly mocked.

Comments were moving slow enough that I figured I could risk it.

1014 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:47:00pm

re: #983 WindUpBird

So anyone who thinks that Health Acre Reform is unconstituional?

Have a gander at Yale Law School's assessment! Link to all your friends, and let's flush this ludicrous GOP talking point down the shitter.

I want to know how those people got an Ivy League education. They're mysterious.

1015 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:47:07pm

re: #1006 windsagio

/report to carousel!

(Yes I stole it :p)

Renew!

1016 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:47:12pm

re: #1000 darthstar

1000

1000000000

Dammit, too early.

1017 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:47:26pm

re: #1013 darthstar

see, 'FIRST!' I can't stand.

The first post is properly used to try to set the tone of the whole thread >>

1018 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:47:35pm

re: #1016 cliffster

1000000000

Dammit, too early.

You'll get a chance when Charles goes on vacation.

1019 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:47:41pm

re: #1014 SanFranciscoZionist

I want to know how those people got an Ivy League education. They're mysterious.

The shadowy cabal that IS. The Yale Law School :D

1020 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:47:53pm

re: #1005 wrenchwench

Is that you, tfk?

LOL
No TFK is watching the Tree line with his M60..
Fucking freak

1021 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:48:05pm

re: #1019 WindUpBird

Skull and bones/Cross and key ;)

1022 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:48:13pm

re: #983 WindUpBird

So anyone who thinks that Health Acre Reform is unconstituional?

Have a gander at Yale Law School's assessment! Link to all your friends, and let's flush this ludicrous GOP talking point down the shitter.

What the heck does Akhil Reed Amar think he knows about the Constitution anyway?

////

1023 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:48:59pm

re: #1020 HoosierHoops

Please don't call tfk a freak. Thanks.

1024 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:49:10pm

re: #1020 HoosierHoops

LOL
No TFK is watching the Tree line with his M60..
Fucking freak

ahahaha lol

I barely know anything about the guy, but I'm imagining a big fat dude in a wifebeater with a cigar, pointing his gun at nothing, occasionally yelling "WE GOT COMPANY!" at noone. :D

1025 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:49:11pm

re: #1008 darthstar

Who's tfk? That was the first, and last, time I'll do that. Maybe I'll report myself to Charles so I don't do it again.

A now-banned poster who wanted to fight those (also now-banned, now that I think of it) who thwarted his attempts to hit 1,000.

1026 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:49:15pm

re: #1022 SanFranciscoZionist

Arab sounding name + same middle name as shoe bomber + first name sounds like "I kill" = obvious socialist.

1027 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:49:16pm

re: #1023 pingjockey

(can't resist)

Sounds like a freak!

1028 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:49:21pm

re: #944 windsagio

ok, seriously, now I wanna see photos >>

Sorry about the delay, but here's two of them from last year's GenCon:

Scottish Stormtrooper

Varek's Cheering Section

1029 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:49:56pm

re: #1028 Dark_Falcon

have you seen the shots of the lady storm troopers? :D

1030 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:50:05pm

re: #1023 pingjockey

Please don't call tfk a freak. Thanks.

I used to like him too, but he's gone stalker in quite a nasty way.

1031 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:50:14pm

re: #1028 Dark_Falcon

Love you forever!!!

1032 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:50:57pm

re: #1023 pingjockey

Please don't call tfk a freak. Thanks.

Who else imagines shooting people at the tree line on a blog?
You tell me ping...
Who else?

1033 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:51:09pm

I mean, damned cute is what this is: Image: 1331711371_b605f4c3c7.jpg

I love someone who takes the big Star Wars IP and runs with it :D

1034 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:51:32pm

re: #1023 pingjockey

Please don't call tfk a freak. Thanks.

How about stalker pile of shit? Is that okay?

1035 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:51:41pm

re: #298 theheat

Caribou Barbie (Palin) and her ridiculous eyebrows net a reported $1 million per episode to yap about the state she quit as governor.

Eyebrows? Her eyebrows are under condemnation?

1036 freetoken  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:51:46pm

The right-o-sphere has taken themselves over the cliff. Now, they are trying to outdo the DU folks in their claims - remember when some of the DU-ites were claiming that GWB would suspend US elections to stay in office? Well, I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander:

Will Obama Suspend the Mid Term Election?

More and more politics-watchers are coming around to the conclusion that the scheduled Mid-Term Election in November of 2010 will be a political bloodbath for the Democratic Party. It is beginning to appear as if the democrats may, indeed, lose control of BOTH houses of the Congress. As a conservative I can only hope and pray they do.

But – the democrats lust for power is so great and their zeal for socialism so intense, that I cannot see them allowing their hold on power to be placed in jeopardy by, of all things, an election where the voice of the people is actually heard.

So, the question must be asked: Will Obama and the socialist/democrats in our government suspend, postpone, or “call-off” the Mid Term Election scheduled for this coming November?

1037 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:52:00pm

re: #1033 WindUpBird

A million updings, in rather a sad sort of way.

1038 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:52:05pm

re: #1020 HoosierHoops

LOL
No TFK is watching the Tree line with his M60..
Fucking freak

Freaks and Musicians...Yonder Mountain doing Sideshow Blues

I’ve got them Sideshow Blues
I want to tame the lions
These center ring rich kids ain’t even trying
From college to the big top they take the best positions
While I’m out in this tent with these freaks and musicians
Youtube Video
1039 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:52:10pm

re: #1030 wrenchwench
I am sorry to hear that. You folks, well some of you who've been here for a while know I was out sick. So there are posters here whom I don't know and some that have gone away. I figure sometime...about 2021..I'll get caught up!

1040 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:52:23pm

re: #1030 wrenchwench

I used to like him too, but he's gone stalker in quite a nasty way.

I was very patient with tfk for a long time.

Then I discovered that he could type like a normal person.

That upset me.

1041 kobra_55  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:52:39pm

Can anyone tell me if there have been GOP governors, congressmen, senators who have openly stood up and condemned this tea party nonsense? I haven't seen any but I'm sure there must be someone somewhere condemning this crap. And whoever and wherever those people are, I would like to support them wholeheartedly come November.

1042 Lateralis  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:52:41pm

re: #983 WindUpBird

So anyone who thinks that Health Acre Reform is unconstituional?

Have a gander at Yale Law School's assessment! Link to all your friends, and let's flush this ludicrous GOP talking point down the shitter.

Case closed [!]

1043 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:52:43pm

re: #1024 WindUpBird

ahahaha lol

I barely know anything about the guy, but I'm imagining a big fat dude in a wifebeater with a cigar, pointing his gun at nothing, occasionally yelling "WE GOT COMPANY!" at noone. :D

He's an American Indian, living a bit North of Dallas, Texas. He is a political activist, ex-Vietnam vet, liked to leave comments that were stream of conscience like-free verse, had some extreme views about patriotism, had a real hatred for Kerry. He was banned.

1044 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:52:44pm

re: #1026 Obdicut

Arab sounding name + same middle name as shoe bomber + first name sounds like "I kill" = obvious socialist.

Quick! Someone change that guy's name to Biff Masters!

1045 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:53:06pm

re: #1037 wozzablog

A million updings, in rather a sad sort of way.

Why sad! She looks like she's having a blast :D

1046 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:53:08pm

re: #1032 HoosierHoops

re: #1034 WindUpBird
Calm down!! I didn't know he'd wigged out.

1047 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:54:02pm

re: #1046 pingjockey

If someone is pretty conservative, and also gone, it seems like a fairly safe bet >>

1048 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:54:02pm

re: #1043 Walter L. Newton

He's an American Indian, living a bit North of Dallas, Texas. He is a political activist, ex-Vietnam vet, liked to leave comments that were stream of conscience like-free verse, had some extreme views about patriotism, had a real hatred for Kerry. He was banned.

I've been linked to some stuff he said that REEEEALLY creeped me out, like in the "I don't want to even be anywhere near this dude" sort of way, but I don't know a whole lot about his personal life.

1049 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:54:47pm

re: #1045 WindUpBird

Why sad! She looks like she's having a blast :D

Why would you need knee pads in space?

1050 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:54:55pm

re: #1046 pingjockey

re: #1034 WindUpBird
Calm down!! I didn't know he'd wigged out.

Sorry sorry, I'm sorta being zingey today ;-)

1051 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:54:57pm

re: #1045 WindUpBird

I felt extremely sad in finding that image just a little horny............

1052 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:54:58pm

Ok, Ok... so we cannot label Obama a socialist because for some reason it gets everybody's panties in a bundle on LGF!!!! Then I'm gonna go with a Marxist... I like the way it roles off the tongue

1053 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:55:07pm

re: #1031 windsagio

Love you forever!!!

BTW, the man in the picture is not me. I'm not allowing my picture to get posted online right now, since there are those who might use it against me.

1054 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:55:08pm

re: #1049 darthstar

Why would you need knee pads in space?

Why indeed :D

1055 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:55:28pm

re: #1040 SanFranciscoZionist

I was very patient with tfk for a long time.

Then I discovered that he could type like a normal person.

That upset me.

Correct. I knew him "off line," the stream of conscience free-verse was an online persona, like a "poet," agree with him or not, like it or not, it was a style.

1056 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:55:30pm

re: #1043 Walter L. Newton

He's an American Indian, living a bit North of Dallas, Texas. He is a political activist, ex-Vietnam vet, liked to leave comments that were stream of conscience like-free verse, had some extreme views about patriotism, had a real hatred for Kerry. He was banned.

And, I should mention, had a real hatred for Kerry.

1057 ryannon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:55:31pm

re: #988 Walter L. Newton

He's a conservative.

He's Sharkey

1058 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:55:32pm

re: #1049 darthstar

Those steel grated decks on every space ship except Enterprise............

1059 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:55:44pm

re: #1053 Dark_Falcon

oh totally fair. I'm pretty careful about that stuff too, just on general principle.

1060 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:55:44pm

re: #1054 WindUpBird

ewwwwwwwwww

1061 The Shadow Do  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:55:45pm

What's all the kerfuffle over socialism and the president these days. There is nothing new to see here. He's a lib (I know, big shock to some). This is The Great Society part deux. LBJ redux. Been there, done this.

Roll with it, people.

1062 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:55:59pm

re: #1052 Tackleberry

Ok, Ok... so we cannot label Obama a socialist because for some reason it gets everybody's panties in a bundle on LGF!!! Then I'm gonna go with a Marxist... I like the way it roles off the tongue

Had to read the thread to see why your first post got no reaction, eh?

1063 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:56:09pm

re: #1054 WindUpBird

Why indeed :D

Darthstar: don't throw softballs like that without a warning first. :) :)

1064 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:56:13pm

re: #1052 Tackleberry

Oh good times!

1065 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:56:20pm

re: #1047 windsagio
I'm conservative and still here.:) Although after taking that little quiz it would seem I'm of a more libertarian bent than I thought.

1066 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:56:28pm

re: #1046 pingjockey

re: #1034 WindUpBird
Calm down!! I didn't know he'd wigged out.

No body was freaking out ping.. It's a flat out cold world here..
You threaten to kill people you get banned.. We just comment on the Bullshit..
It's just like that.. Nobody breaks the rules at LGF...
Hope today finds you well

1067 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:56:52pm

re: #1052 Tackleberry

Ok, Ok... so we cannot label Obama a socialist because for some reason it gets everybody's panties in a bundle on LGF!!! Then I'm gonna go with a Marxist... I like the way it roles off the tongue

Well, it's even less accurate, but if it really cheers you up, keep going.

1068 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:57:01pm

re: #1065 pingjockey

note the 'and also gone' :p

1069 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:57:01pm

re: #1053 Dark_Falcon

BTW, the man in the picture is not me. I'm not allowing my picture to get posted online right now, since there are those who might use it against me.

You just need a storm trooper helmet. :D Then the stalkers will be all "I totally know where that guy is! He's at Lucasarts, let's go get him, and his 700,000 friends..."

1070 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:57:04pm

re: #1036 freetoken

The right-o-sphere has taken themselves over the cliff. Now, they are trying to outdo the DU folks in their claims - remember when some of the DU-ites were claiming that GWB would suspend US elections to stay in office? Well, I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander:

Will Obama Suspend the Mid Term Election?

Looney tunes. Sure enough, here's JD Longstreet's website. He fits the profile perfectly including being a Rapture Ready™ neo-Confederate.

1071 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:57:14pm

Okay...interview time...back in a bit.

1072 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:57:22pm

re: #1033 WindUpBird

I mean, damned cute is what this is: [Link: farm2.static.flickr.com...]

I love someone who takes the big Star Wars IP and runs with it :D

Also, she's got a Biker Scout helmet, not one for a Stormtrooper. Still pretty cool.

/Stay on Target!

1073 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:57:27pm

re: #1071 darthstar

GOOD LUCK!

1074 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:57:55pm

re: #1056 SanFranciscoZionist

And, I should mention, had a real hatred for Kerry.

Like more than the normal "that guy looks like Herman Munster LOL DEMOCRAT" thing? :D

1075 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:58:19pm

re: #1071 darthstar

Okay...interview time...back in a bit.

TAKE LUCK!
(Brian Regan joke)

1076 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:58:25pm

re: #1067 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, it's even less accurate, but if it really cheers you up, keep going.

He does need a lot of cheering up.

179 Tackleberry 3/15/2010 1:10:50 pm PDT

* -24

Been a while since I logged into LGF and it seems as if its changed. I remember Charles and most members standing up against communism from within. Glenn is shedding light onto communist from within our country and should be praised for it. I guess this site is now for all the moonbats!!! Depressing...

1077 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:58:30pm

re: #1066 HoosierHoops
It's been that way since I got on here 3 yrs ago, IIRC, ya can't advocate killing folks.

1078 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:58:34pm

re: #1072 Dark_Falcon

Also, she's got a Biker Scout helmet, not one for a Stormtrooper. Still pretty cool.

/Stay on Target!

The biker scouts I always dug. I like the cool visors, and who doesn't want a hover-bike-skiff...thing :D

1079 Donna Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:58:48pm

re: #1053 Dark_Falcon

BTW, the man in the picture is not me. I'm not allowing my picture to get posted online right now, since there are those who might use it against me.

DK I knew you were smart but you just showed me just how smart you really are. I'm very impressed!

1080 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:59:03pm

re: #1052 Tackleberry

The Troll, the Troll, the Troll is Back!

-With Apologies to Sir Elton John

1081 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:59:05pm

bad form to call people out maybe, but lol@'lateralis' agreeing with the lunatic that Obama is a marxist.

Wanna come out and defend that position? ><

1082 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:59:08pm

re: #1075 Silvergirl

TAKE LUCK!
(Brian Regan joke)

Brian Regan! I love that guy. I saw him live in Portland with my parents a couple years ago.

"It's...a...cup of dirt!"

1083 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:59:33pm

re: #1052 Tackleberry

You know, a lot of women read this blog, so that whole 'panties in a bunch' insult doesn't really work so well.

1084 Donna Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:59:35pm

re: #1073 windsagio

GOOD LUCK!

Interview time? Who's he doin an interview with?

1085 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:59:46pm

re: #1052 Tackleberry

Ok, Ok... so we cannot label Obama a socialist because for some reason it gets everybody's panties in a bundle on LGF!!! Then I'm gonna go with a Marxist... I like the way it roles off the tongue

hahaha Tackleberry

So did you really get married in that monster truck? :D

1086 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:59:49pm

re: #1074 WindUpBird

Like more than the normal "that guy looks like Herman Munster LOL DEMOCRAT" thing? :D

I don't think I've ever seen anyone hate John Kerry like tfk hated John Kerry.

1087 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:00:08pm

re: #1083 Obdicut

You know, a lot of women read this blog, so that whole 'panties in a bunch' insult doesn't really work so well.

I'm offended. My panties are always nicely ironed.

1088 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:00:12pm

re: #1055 Walter L. Newton

I need to go out and get some sun right now, but at some point remind me.

We could have a really fun conversatoin about how people 'playing a character' online are often showing their real selves, or at least what they wish they could be.

1089 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:00:14pm

re: #1067 SanFranciscoZionist

Ya true, but it does sound a little more scary... How would you describe him

1090 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:00:23pm

re: #1036 freetoken

The right-o-sphere has taken themselves over the cliff. Now, they are trying to outdo the DU folks in their claims - remember when some of the DU-ites were claiming that GWB would suspend US elections to stay in office? Well, I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander:

Will Obama Suspend the Mid Term Election?

*sigh*

That's just as idiotic as when the far left was whining about Bush suspending elections.

1091 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:00:56pm

re: #1086 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think I've ever seen anyone hate John Kerry like tfk hated John Kerry.

Now I want links, but it's probably bad form to go digging through the archives for evidence of someone's meltdown.

1092 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:01:00pm

re: #1082 WindUpBird

Brian Regan! I love that guy. I saw him live in Portland with my parents a couple years ago.

"It's...a...cup of dirt!"

I played his Stupid in School thing at school before the science fair projects were due. The kids were choking with laughter.

1093 kobra_55  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:01:00pm

re: #1081 windsagio

I think maybe the only way to start opening people's eyes is to call them on it and make them actually defend and think about what they're saying.

1094 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:01:05pm

re: #1083 Obdicut

Its like my favorite insult tho', its hard not to use it >>

1095 Donna Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:01:07pm

re: #1087 WindUpBird

I'm offended. My panties are always nicely ironed.

Nice come back! Upding!

1096 Lateralis  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:01:20pm

re: #1081 windsagio

bad form to call people out maybe, but lol@'lateralis' agreeing with the lunatic that Obama is a marxist.

Wanna come out and defend that position? ><

Didn't agree, but thought it was funny. To argue he does not have socialist yearnings is a joke. The guy sounds like a lib college professor that has tenure. I guess that is one thing I can be thankful for, no tenure.

1097 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:01:39pm

re: #1048 WindUpBird

I've been linked to some stuff he said that REEEALLY creeped me out, like in the "I don't want to even be anywhere near this dude" sort of way, but I don't know a whole lot about his personal life.

You know, he sounds like my Dad when gets in one of his bad moods. We talkin' sedition creepy?

1098 kobra_55  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:01:53pm

re: #1090 Lidane

I think the tea party pulled a lot from the liberal protesters of the Bush admin, way more than they would ever care to admit.

1099 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:01:55pm

re: #1076 wrenchwench

Wow really, have you got no life to go dig up old post!!!

1100 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:01:56pm

re: #1089 Tackleberry

Ya true, but it does sound a little more scary... How would you describe him

A moderate democrat, center left. Who is continuing many of Bush's policies.

Because I'm not a crazy guy from Police Academy!

1101 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:02:07pm

re: #1096 Lateralis

thanks for coming out and saying something.

Your other point has been roundly debunked in this thread, but I really appreciate the response :)

1102 ryannon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:02:14pm

re: #1083 Obdicut

You know, a lot of women read this blog, so that whole 'panties in a bunch' insult doesn't really work so well.

Thongs in a knot?

1103 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:02:54pm

re: #1086 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think I've ever seen anyone hate John Kerry like tfk hated John Kerry.

On par with Nam vets hatred of Jane Fonda?

1104 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:03:09pm

re: #1092 Silvergirl

I played his Stupid in School thing at school before the science fair projects were due. The kids were choking with laughter.

It's fucking genius. I memorized it when i was a kid. :D

"Brian, you're a moron."

Also, his thing about plurals! "MOOSEN! I saw a FLOCK OF MOOSEN!"

1105 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:03:30pm

re: #1079 Dragon_Lady

DK I knew you were smart but you just showed me just how smart you really are. I'm very impressed!

Thanks. It does suck a good bit though, but it's the result of choices I made. I decided to keep an eye out on the Stalker Blog, and then I decided to mock what I saw (and still do see) as the poor behavior of it's inhabitants. As a result of those actions I've made enemies, who if they had a photo of me might use to try to cause me trouble. Thus no photos of me right now.

1106 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:03:30pm

re: #1099 Tackleberry

Ah, yet another willing fool.
Force GAZE.

1107 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:03:37pm

re: #1096 Lateralis

Didn't agree, but thought it was funny. To argue he does not have socialist yearnings is a joke. The guy sounds like a lib college professor that has tenure. I guess that is one thing I can be thankful for, no tenure.

Obama is teh librul college perfesur only he don't have no tenyour!111111

/Channeling the David Horowitz-Cletus blob.

/

1108 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:03:37pm

re: #1086 SanFranciscoZionist

I saw malkin interviewed on one of the channels - she insinuated he purposefully shot himself in the head with a grenade launcher or some such, and refused to roll back from it.

The Anti-Kerry stuff has been a lot lost in the memory after the anti-Obama stuff got quite as ugly as it has.

1109 Donna Ballard  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:03:55pm

I gotta go to the store, anyone need anything? BBL!

1110 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:04:25pm

re: #1103 Dante41
Beyond. tfk was in Nam as was Kerry. Kerry to my shame was also in my navy.

1111 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:04:38pm

re: #1099 Tackleberry

In you sir, i believe we have found the exact oposite of a kharma whore, and i congratulate you.

1112 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:04:41pm

re: #1104 WindUpBird

It's fucking genius. I memorized it when i was a kid. :D

"Brian, you're a moron."

Also, his thing about plurals! "MOOSEN! I saw a FLOCK OF MOOSEN!"

"Brian, what’s the plural for box?"

"Boxen. I bought 2 boxen of doughnuts."

1113 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:04:48pm

re: #1109 Dragon_Lady

I'm gonna use you as an excuse and drag myself away :p

Peaces!

1114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:05:07pm

re: #1099 Tackleberry

Wow really, have you got no life to go dig up old post!!!

So did you ever meet Bobcat Goldthwait?

1115 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:05:08pm

re: #1098 kobra_55

I think the tea party pulled a lot from the liberal protesters of the Bush admin, way more than they would ever care to admit.

It's been well established that idiocy transcends ideology. There are a bunch of drooling imbeciles on both sides. They're just protesting the same things for different reasons.

1116 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:05:21pm

re: #1109 Dragon_Lady

Beer.......... bring beer......


thnx

1117 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:05:32pm

re: #1112 Silvergirl

"Brian, what’s the plural for box?"

"Boxen. I bought 2 boxen of doughnuts."

ahahahaha dying

1118 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:05:43pm
1119 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:05:52pm

re: #1077 pingjockey

It's been that way since I got on here 3 yrs ago, IIRC, ya can't advocate killing folks.

You are good people Ping...
Hey.. who thought TFK would go off on Lizards?
I didn't expect it..But by God I can go off on people that need Mocked...
He was banned along time ago.. And with good reason...
There is no excuse for what he posted..It's that Simple..
I remember Charles struggled over the decision for months..
Cause everybody liked TFK...
But he went over the line..Many times..

1120 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:06:05pm

re: #1106 Varek Raith

Ah, yet another willing fool.
Force GAZE.

Varek, I don't want you to miss these photos:

Scottish Stormtrooper

Varek's Cheering Section

1121 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:06:19pm

re: #1109 Dragon_Lady

I gotta go to the store, anyone need anything? BBL!

Carne asada and some tortillas, thank you!

1122 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:06:32pm

re: #1120 Dark_Falcon

Varek, I don't want you to miss these photos:

Scottish Stormtrooper

Varek's Cheering Section

Rofl.
:)

1123 The Shadow Do  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:06:33pm

re: #1103 Dante41

On par with Nam vets hatred of Jane Fonda?

If you are a Nam vet there is very good reason to hate on Kerry and Fonda.

Too also, Clop Clop Clop

1124 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:06:42pm

re: #1110 pingjockey

Beyond. tfk was in Nam as was Kerry. Kerry to my shame was also in my navy.

Yep. Seen that before. Dad didn't even care if the allegations against Kerry were completely false. He just wanted to see Kerry burn.

Same with John McCain, now that I think about it.

1125 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:07:50pm

re: #1119 HoosierHoops
Mocking is good, zinging is good, outright hollering back and forth is good for cardio vascular health. Thanks for filling me in about tfk.

1126 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:08:07pm

re: #1115 Lidane

It's been well established that idiocy transcends ideology. There are a bunch of drooling imbeciles on both sides. They're just protesting the same things for different reasons.

It's like they just shift from 1st (hay, my side got elected, go Bush! Hay, Hope and Change!) to 6th (OH FUCK OBAMA IS A KILLER ROBOT NAZI OH GOD BUSH WILL EAT QUEERS)

1127 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:08:13pm

re: #1123 The Shadow Do

If you are a Nam vet there is very good reason to hate on Kerry and Fonda.

Too also, Clop Clop Clop

Look upthread. I know.

1128 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:08:15pm

re: #1110 pingjockey

Beyond. tfk was in Nam as was Kerry. Kerry to my shame was also in my navy.

Kerry might have engaged in some questionable activities after his tour of duty but at least he wasn't a chickenhawk like many of his critics.

1129 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:09:16pm

re: #1124 Dante41
Kerry pisses me off on a much higher level. Medals he was awarded that were not deserved.

1130 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:09:25pm

Scott Brown has apparently decided who his next opponent will be:

Scott Brown Seeks Donations For Senate Run Against…Rachel Maddow?

Heh.

1131 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:09:43pm

re: #1128 Gus 802

Kerry might have engaged in some questionable activities after his tour of duty but at least he wasn't a chickenhawk like many of his critics.

kerry was not my first, second or third choice in that primary. But yeah, that swiftboat-vets-for-truth shit, that was some real slimebaggery happening.

1132 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:09:54pm

re: #1126 WindUpBird

It's like they just shift from 1st (hay, my side got elected, go Bush! Hay, Hope and Change!) to 6th (OH FUCK OBAMA IS A KILLER ROBOT NAZI OH GOD BUSH WILL EAT QUEERS)

NAZI SUPER SCIENCE!11!

1133 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:10:37pm

re: #1130 Lidane

Scott Brown has apparently decided who his next opponent will be:

Scott Brown Seeks Donations For Senate Run Against…Rachel Maddow?

Heh.

Wait what

Why would Rachel Maddow run for office?

1134 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:11:04pm

re: #1131 WindUpBird

kerry was not my first, second or third choice in that primary. But yeah, that swiftboat-vets-for-truth shit, that was some real slimebaggery happening.

T Boone Pickens.

Total time in the military: zero.

1135 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:11:06pm

re: #1123 The Shadow Do

If you are a Nam vet there is very good reason to hate on Robert McNamara

Based on my experiences with Vietnam Vets.

I used to bartend at a place with a very high percentage of Vietnam Vets. One day an interview with McNamara came on, and the place exploded into bedlam.

Jesus, they hated that dude.

1136 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:11:38pm

Awww Man... I had a post deleted. Must be this new censorship thing LGF is doing. Don't mention Beck

1137 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:11:45pm

re: #1110 pingjockey

Beyond. tfk was in Nam as was Kerry. Kerry to my shame was also in my navy.

It's not wise for us to go into the motives of a banned poster, but it is fair to say that tfk thinks that John Kerry betrayed him with his (Kerry's) anti-military actions as part of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). I also think Kerry's actions amounted to betrayal, though I formed that view years before I registered here.

(The above is not meant to praise tfk, merely to outline his thinking.)

1138 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:11:49pm

re: #1135 Obdicut

Based on my experiences with Vietnam Vets.

I used to bartend at a place with a very high percentage of Vietnam Vets. One day an interview with McNamara came on, and the place exploded into bedlam.

Jesus, they hated that dude.

Oh yeah. Just wait until Kissinger dies.

1139 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:11:49pm

re: #1129 pingjockey

I will give a downding to anyone questioning the validity of any medal given to any US soldier.

To do so is to start down a very bad path.

1140 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:11:55pm

re: #1133 WindUpBird
Maybe she's tired of having to follow Olberman?

1141 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:11:56pm

later days people.

1142 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:12:13pm

re: #1133 WindUpBird

Wait what

Why would Rachel Maddow run for office?

She's not. Some fans started a Facebook group to try and encourage her to do it, some goofball in the MA Democratic party sent a Tweet about it, and Scott Brown's people are freaking out over it.

I'm kinda hoping Rachel talks about it on her show.

1143 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:12:34pm

re: #1135 Obdicut


You were a bartender too?

I think, according to these calculations, your life is about 7 times more interesting than mine :D

1144 The Shadow Do  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:12:41pm

re: #1128 Gus 802

Kerry might have engaged in some questionable activities after his tour of duty but at least he wasn't a chickenhawk like many of his critics.

Correction. That would be before, during, and after.

1145 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:12:53pm

re: #1136 Tackleberry

Meh, this troll is boring.

1146 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:13:05pm

re: #1137 Dark_Falcon
Yep. I disliked John Kerry a long, long time ago.

1147 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:13:06pm

re: #1136 Tackleberry

Would you please go back under your bridge?

1148 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:13:08pm

re: #1039 pingjockey

I for one, am happy you are better, and feel well enough to rejoin us!
*smooch*

1149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:13:16pm

re: #1140 pingjockey

Maybe she's tired of having to follow Olberman?

Considering she wouldn't have a show if it wasn't for her star rising by being the fill-in host for Olbermann and they're reportedly good friends, I doubt that's it. 8-)

1150 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:13:43pm

re: #1139 Obdicut

I will give a downding to anyone questioning the validity of any medal given to any US soldier.

To do so is to start down a very bad path.


What will I get for casting doubt on a Boy Scout merit badge?

1151 The Shadow Do  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:14:11pm

re: #1135 Obdicut

Based on my experiences with Vietnam Vets.

I used to bartend at a place with a very high percentage of Vietnam Vets. One day an interview with McNamara came on, and the place exploded into bedlam.

Jesus, they hated that dude.

For good reason. Ignoble murderer.

1152 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:14:21pm

re: #1136 Tackleberry

Awww Man... I had a post deleted. Must be this new censorship thing LGF is doing. Don't mention Beck

You're probably going to flounce.

Here's how to do it.

You write a big long weepy concerned post about how LGF has changed, you talk about how much you love America, you make some crack about how Carles has gone to the dark side, and you take yourself and your limp dick and you waddle off into the sunset. :D

1153 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:14:55pm

re: #1129 pingjockey

Kerry pisses me off on a much higher level. Medals he was awarded that were not deserved.

IOW you're questioning the chain of command when you come down to it. You have no trust in those that awarded John Kerry those medals. That means you have zero trust in his commanding officers.

No doubt you have zero proof that his medals were undeserved. Medals are not reverted on the basis of political ideology once they leave the service.

1154 freetoken  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:15:09pm

WND and, of course, Rush Limbaugh are now on the "end of elections" meme:

Rush Limbaugh: Elections could end thanks to Obama

Talk-radio icon Rush Limbaugh today suggested the existence of U.S. elections is now threatened by a move he expects President Obama to pursue – a mass amnesty for illegal aliens – following the passage of his massive health-care reform plan.

"The next big push will be amnesty for ... millions of illegal immigrants who are here," he said on his radio program.

"Obama's gonna need their votes in 2012. The Democrats are going to need their votes in every election from now on – if we have elections, and I'm not joking.

"The Constitution has just been ripped to shreds, so why is anything safe?" he said.

Heh... hand it to Limbaugh, he wrapped together both the end-of-elections meme with the immigration hot button. Limbaugh is an evil, but brilliant, but talker.

1155 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:15:27pm

re: #1151 The Shadow Do

For good reason. Ignoble murderer.

Not a murderer, but a very bad SecDef whose bad decisions got people killed. However, getting them killed was not his intent, thus he was not a murderer.

1156 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:15:30pm

re: #1143 WindUpBird

Nah. Bartending really isn't that interesting, though the Vietnam vets were my most interesting clientele, for sure-- this was at a place that was a combo greasy spoon joint/bar. My favorite was a guy named Vinnie. He was an awesome guy, missing his front two teeth, a pacifist after the war. He was a cobbler, a shoemaker. He could be a little crazy and had some wild opinions but was a very sweet man.

My parents visited me at the bar occasionally, and one day I decided to introduce my rather-proper mom to Vinnie, hoping that it'll go okay.

My mom smiles and says, "Hi, Vinnie!" Turns out he was the only person she'd trust with her Italian shoes, and they'd known each other for about eight years.

Our parents are often cooler than we think.

1157 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:15:42pm

Local tales of anti-Israel propaganda:

Driving home tonight, I passed the nearby Episcopalian Church and was pleased - if astonished - to see a group of people standing on the sidewalk waving about half a dozen Israeli flags. I turned the car around and drove up to talk to them.

Turns out the church has a featured speaker tonight, one Mark Braverman, a person associated with a group called "Sabeel", which is apparently a Christian Palestinian "liberation theology" front for defaming the State of Israel.

I got a flier and the card of the editor of the Baltimore Jewish Times, which is sponsoring the counter-demonstration. I also told them that I blog here on LGF, and that I would be writing a longish post about this once I've done my research.

Anyone with knowledge of this Braverman character and/or Sabeel is hereby invited to contact me (my nick is blue until further notice) with information or contributions.

--Cato

1158 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:15:55pm

re: #1139 Obdicut

I will give a downding to anyone questioning the validity of any medal given to any US soldier.

To do so is to start down a very bad path.

Agree A+++

I don't even want to dig up the kerry stuff again, the irrational HE DIDN'T DESERVE MEDALS shit is just so dull and tired to me, mindless leftover campaign frothing. It's as dull to me as Bush "stealing the election".

1159 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:15:56pm

Charles must have gone out for tacos on his bike...to Pismo Beach

1160 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:16:08pm

re: #1137 Dark_Falcon

re: #1155 Dark_Falcon

Not a murderer, but a very bad SecDef whose bad decisions got people killed. However, getting them killed was not his intent, thus he was not a murderer.

Kissinger, on the other hand...

1161 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:16:24pm

re: #1139 Obdicut
I can question whatever the hell I want...I spent 20 years in the Navy, 5 trips to the Persian Gulf. You don't get a Purple Heart ans not spend ANY time in the hospital. BTW, I'm still mad at the Iranians. We were supposed to go to Australia and those asshats took over our embassy. Do not go to Australia go to the Indian Ocean for 7 months....Gaaah.

1162 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:16:30pm

re: #1150 Silvergirl

You will get an upding, given that I know mine were given on the basis

1163 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:16:37pm

re: #1154 freetoken

WND and, of course, Rush Limbaugh are now on the "end of elections" meme:

Rush Limbaugh: Elections could end thanks to Obama

Heh... hand it to Limbaugh, he wrapped together both the end-of-elections meme with the immigration hot button. Limbaugh is an evil, but brilliant, but talker.

El Rushbo on Weird Nut Daily. It's a perfect fit.

1164 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:16:44pm

re: #1135 Obdicut

Based on my experiences with Vietnam Vets.

I used to bartend at a place with a very high percentage of Vietnam Vets. One day an interview with McNamara came on, and the place exploded into bedlam.

Jesus, they hated that dude.

Can someone with better historical context than I have make any comparison to current politics? I have two ex-Marines as roommates, and their feelings toward Cheney and Rumsfeld are.... impolite. Is their a correlation to be drawn?

1165 The Curmudgeon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:17:01pm

re: #1 Oh no...Sand People!

Point #1 is a fact, anyone can see that.

Points 2 - 4 are full of fail.

The upding-downding detail on this post give an interesting insight about how things are around here.

1166 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:17:04pm

re: #1159 albusteve

Charles must have gone out for tacos on his bike...to Pismo Beach

Stopped by Albuquerque, did he???

What's up, doc?

1167 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:18:15pm

re: #1164 torrentprime

Can someone with better historical context than I have make any comparison to current politics? I have two ex-Marines as roommates, and their feelings toward Cheney and Rumsfeld are... impolite. Is their a correlation to be drawn?

Yeah. Combat vets absolutely loathe chickenhawks who never served, and reserve a special hatred for the above who are sending boys to war.

1168 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:18:23pm

re: #1153 Gus 802
I know what he was "awarded" and how. But officers get to write their own awards and I have some idea of what went on. I just don't like it.

1169 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:18:30pm

re: #1156 Obdicut

Nah. Bartending really isn't that interesting, though the Vietnam vets were my most interesting clientele, for sure-- this was at a place that was a combo greasy spoon joint/bar. My favorite was a guy named Vinnie. He was an awesome guy, missing his front two teeth, a pacifist after the war. He was a cobbler, a shoemaker. He could be a little crazy and had some wild opinions but was a very sweet man.

My parents visited me at the bar occasionally, and one day I decided to introduce my rather-proper mom to Vinnie, hoping that it'll go okay.

My mom smiles and says, "Hi, Vinnie!" Turns out he was the only person she'd trust with her Italian shoes, and they'd known each other for about eight years.

Our parents are often cooler than we think.

hee! I remember about a year ago, going to a bar my parents used to go to when they were in their 30's, and they just started drinking and telling me all these stories of their crazy friends who were the house bar band, and how drunk they got, losing their car keys in the parking lot, didn't remember how they got home, lining up shots on the bar to get the bass player so trashed he couldn't remember his parts...

I had never heard ANY of these stories! That place just jogged their memory and it all came out :D

1170 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:19:06pm

re: #1091 WindUpBird

Now I want links, but it's probably bad form to go digging through the archives for evidence of someone's meltdown.

The meltdowns usually get deleted, as they contain quite a bit of nastiness.

1171 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:19:10pm

IMHO, those who served can say whatever they want about others who served. Within reason. :)

1172 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:19:12pm

re: #1162 Obdicut

You will get an upding, given that I know mine were given on the basis

An unfinished tale! Given on the basis . . .

Let's have the details!

1173 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:19:32pm

re: #1159 albusteve

Charles must have gone out for tacos on his bike...to Pismo Beach

Is it snowing down there? Radar shows that you should be getting some, we're going to get over a foot tonight.

1174 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:20:01pm

re: #1155 Dark_Falcon

Not a murderer, but a very bad SecDef whose bad decisions got people killed. However, getting them killed was not his intent, thus he was not a murderer.

Did you ever see the Mcnamara documentary Fog of War?

1175 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:20:19pm

re: #1170 Floral Giraffe

The meltdowns usually get deleted, as they contain quite a bit of nastiness.

All of tfk's comments were deleted, for the same reason.

1176 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:20:23pm

re: #1164 torrentprime
Most of us enlisted types don't like the upper echelon...no matter who it is.:)

1177 doubter4444  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:20:26pm

re: #922 WindUpBird

It's just that that damn brush is so broad.
All Dems and All Leftists and All this and that.
I get so tired of the stupid lumping in.

1178 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:20:57pm

re: #1166 Varek Raith

Stopped by Albuquerque, did he???

What's up, doc?

stopped by to get yelled at

1179 freetoken  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:22:16pm

re: #1173 Walter L. Newton

Not a cloud in the sky, 72F...

JUST DON'T MOVE HERE.

1180 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:22:22pm

re: #1168 pingjockey

I know what he was "awarded" and how. But officers get to write their own awards and I have some idea of what went on. I just don't like it.

Yeah. I remember my Dad saying one of the reasons he takes special pride in his CIB is because officers can give themselves Bronze Stars and the like, but they have to serve 30 days in combat like the grunts to get the CIB.

1181 The Shadow Do  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:22:27pm

re: #1155 Dark_Falcon

Not a murderer, but a very bad SecDef whose bad decisions got people killed. However, getting them killed was not his intent, thus he was not a murderer.

No? Self confessed as he later admitted to feeding my generation into the meat grinder with full knowledge of the futility. The worst kind of killer he was. Save face, kill people.

1182 darthstar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:22:50pm

God I love this woman...

Youtube Video

(oh, and the interview wasn't all that...but I've got another candidate tomorrow I'm more excited about).

1183 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:22:52pm

re: #1052 Tackleberry

Ok, Ok... so we cannot label Obama a socialist because for some reason it gets everybody's panties in a bundle on LGF!!! Then I'm gonna go with a Marxist... I like the way it roles off the tongue

Oh, grow up!

1184 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:22:53pm

re: #1174 WindUpBird

Did you ever see the Mcnamara documentary Fog of War?

No.

1185 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:22:56pm

re: #1165 The Curmudgeon

The upding-downding detail on this post give an interesting insight about how things are around here.

anyone who believes Obama is a socialist, truly believes he will "seize the means of production for the workers". Is simply not thinking, is blindly partisan, or is willfully ignorant.

Wake me when we have no more free enterprise.

1186 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:23:11pm

re: #1173 Walter L. Newton

Is it snowing down there? Radar shows that you should be getting some, we're going to get over a foot tonight.

50 deg but I think it's colder up north..no snow since a couple inches a few days ago, but a chance for tonight and tomorrow...says Weather Bug

1187 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:23:50pm

re: #1152 WindUpBird

You're probably going to flounce.

Here's how to do it.

You write a big long weepy concerned post about how LGF has changed, you talk about how much you love America, you make some crack about how Carles has gone to the dark side, and you take yourself and your limp dick and you waddle off into the sunset. :D

Flouncer baiter.

1188 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:23:55pm

re: #1174 WindUpBird
Have not. But having been on a ship where you are your own little world and still not knowing what's going on in the battle group has got to be less stressful than being a ground pounder with all that entails.

1189 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:24:00pm

re: #1181 The Shadow Do

No? Self confessed as he later admitted to feeding my generation into the meat grinder with full knowledge of the futility. The worst kind of killer he was. Save face, kill people.

I missed that. Link, if you would please?

1190 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:24:02pm

re: #1184 Dark_Falcon

No.

I recommend it highly, it's fascinating, it;s basically an interview with McNamara from the point of view of the interviewer. As in the guy has a camera like on his head. it's not exactly kind to mcNamara.

1191 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:24:10pm

re: #1185 WindUpBird

anyone who believes Obama is a socialist, truly believes he will "seize the means of production for the workers". Is simply not thinking, is blindly partisan, or is willfully ignorant.

And as usual has "socialist" confused with "communist".

1192 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:24:15pm

re: #1187 Silvergirl

Flouncer baiter.

Flater! :D

1193 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:24:20pm

re: #1174 WindUpBird

Did you ever see the Mcnamara documentary Fog of War?

I believe the correct title is "Prog of War".

1194 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:24:50pm

Ok, I'm sorry for being a "troll". What I've really been wanting to say is Rush Limbaugh is satan. no no wait, Glenn Beck is Satan and Rush is just his evil pawn.

Obama is a fair and honest president who does not believe in redistributing wealth... I mean... what was I thinking. The Democrats are gonna save us and put this country onto the right track

1195 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:25:07pm

re: #1164 torrentprime

First of all, you don't have ex-marine roommates.

Second of all, the feelings of grunts for REMFs is generally one of derision.

re: #1161 pingjockey

My granduncle got a purple heart and spent no time in the hospital for that injury, asshole. You're calling into question my granduncle's purple heart now.

This is the bad road you go down when you start questioning medals.

I respect your service. Do the same to others.

1196 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:25:20pm

re: #1193 Cato the Elder

I believe the correct title is "Prog of War".

Not to be confused with "Frog of War," the de gaulle documentary.

1197 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:26:03pm

Tackleberry Dingleberry

1198 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:26:17pm

re: #1154 freetoken

WND and, of course, Rush Limbaugh are now on the "end of elections" meme:

Rush Limbaugh: Elections could end thanks to Obama

Oh geez.

It was tiresome when the far left did it, and it's worse now. He damn well knows better than that. =P

1199 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:26:19pm

re: #1194 Tackleberry

Eternal Gaze

Youtube Video
1200 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:26:25pm

re: #1194 Tackleberry

Ok, I'm sorry for being a "troll". What I've really been wanting to say is Rush Limbaugh is satan. no no wait, Glenn Beck is Satan and Rush is just his evil pawn.

Obama is a fair and honest president who does not believe in redistributing wealth... I mean... what was I thinking. The Democrats are gonna save us and put this country onto the right track

And when did he ever say he wanted to "redistributing wealth?"

1201 Lateralis  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:26:44pm

re: #1197 Gus 802

Tackleberry Dingleberry

You are so good at word play.

1202 Racer X  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:26:58pm

I watched a bit of Fox News today. They were in a tizzy over the health care bill. Several of the things they mentioned as horrible I had no problem with at all.

Sheesh people, pick your battles.

1203 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:27:26pm

re: #1200 Walter L. Newton

And when did he ever say he wanted to "redistributing wealth?"

"Spreading it around" is not quite the same thing; it's a laudable goal, in fact, but people do disagree on the mechanics of the implementation.

1204 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:27:44pm

What Rush meant to say was that his salary would be going up because of Obama.

1205 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:28:01pm

re: #1194 Tackleberry

Boo! Go back to Free Republic and get a better act!

1206 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:28:05pm

re: #1195 Obdicut
He was damn lucky then and also a huge anomaly. As far as Kerry, I did a little research and I have issues with his medals and some other stuff he has done. Now I'll be honest and say I don't like liberals of his ilk.

1207 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:28:10pm

re: #1188 pingjockey

Have not. But having been on a ship where you are your own little world and still not knowing what's going on in the battle group has got to be less stressful than being a ground pounder with all that entails.

my dad, a Pacific vet, used to recall that he never, ever knew what was going on or where he was for three years...unless he was in NZ...he loved that place...he once sailed crossed the International Dateline so many times, he didn't even know what week it was

1208 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:28:38pm

re: #1099 Tackleberry

Wow really, have you got no life to go dig up old post!!!

Eight days isn't that damn long ago, buttmunch...

1209 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:29:18pm

re: #1200 Walter L. Newton

Ahhhhh... He did to Joe the Plumber for one, and on couple other occasions...

Sorry Walter for proving you wrong...

1210 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:29:44pm

re: #1200 Walter L. Newton

Success!!

1211 jvic  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:29:46pm

AMBUH is an index of health insurance stocks. It's up more than 85% in the last year.

Snide remarks and bad puns.

It's a metric to watch as Obamacare continues. But the metrics I really worry about are the ones for biotech innovation.

1212 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:30:06pm

re: #1207 albusteve
Never got to NZ. The dateline is weird, going west you skip a day, coming back east, you have 2 of the same days.

1213 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:30:09pm

re: #1194 Tackleberry

GAZE

1214 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:30:10pm

re: #1199 Obdicut

Eternal Gaze

[Video]

That's so 90s.

Close your eyes, give me your hand, darling
Do you feel my heart beating, do you understand?
Do you feel the same, am I only dreaming?
Is this burning an eternal gaze?

1215 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:30:38pm

re: #1209 Tackleberry

Ahhh... He did to Joe the Plumber for one, and on couple other occasions...

Sorry Walter for proving you wrong...

You didn't prove anything... please link me to a quote of him using the phrase "redistributing wealth?"

1216 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:30:43pm

re: #1195 Obdicut

First of all, you don't have ex-marine roommates.

Still Marines, right? Wondered about that as soon as I posted.

1217 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:30:57pm

re: #1204 HappyWarrior

What's wrong with making more money. You have something wrong with people making a lot of money for whatever reason

1218 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:31:02pm

re: #1209 Tackleberry

Joe the Plumber as a source? LOL forever.

Who's next? John Gosselin as a family planning counselor? Sarah Palin on how to fight against Russia?

1219 Uninformed Opinion  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:31:33pm

Here is to question #5!

1220 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:31:51pm

re: #1217 Tackleberry

What's wrong with making more money. You have something wrong with people making a lot of money for whatever reason

Please link me to a quote of him using the phrase "redistributing wealth?" YOU LOOSE, because you can't.

1221 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:32:02pm

Sarah Palin on Effective, Long Term Governing.
XD

1222 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:32:06pm

re: #1206 pingjockey

He was not in the least bit a huge anomaly. The requirements for the purple heart say abso-fucking-lutely nothing about a hospital stay.

[Link: www.usmcvta.org...]


(2) A wound is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent sustained under one or more of the conditions listed above A physical lesion is not required, however, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer and records of medical treatment for wounds or injuries received in action must have been made a matter of official record.

Please stop spreading disinformation about the criteria for the award of the purple heart. Doing so is a disservice to the many American military personnel who have been awarded it for wounds that did not require a hospital stay.

1223 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:32:08pm

re: #1219 Uninformed Opinion
42

1224 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:32:32pm

re: #1218 Lidane

Joe the Plumber as a source? LOL forever.

Who's next? John Gosselin as a family planning counselor? Sarah Palin on how to fight against Russia?

Larry the Cable Guy as a commentator on the economy.

wait...

1225 Racer X  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:32:51pm

Socialism

so·cial·ism   [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

1226 The Shadow Do  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:33:18pm

re: #1189 Dark_Falcon

I missed that. Link, if you would please?

McNamara gradually became skeptical about whether the war could be won by deploying more troops to South Vietnam and intensifying the bombing of North Vietnam, a claim he would publish in a book years later. He also stated later that his support of the Vietnam war was given out of loyalty to administration policy
1227 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:33:31pm

re: #1216 torrentprime

Yeah. It's a Marine thing. Don't call 'em soldier, and don't call them an ex-Marine. They take the semper seriously.

One famous poster on Fark claimed to be an ex-marine, a soldier in the Marine Core.

Same guy blamed another dumbass post on his wife typing instead of him.

1228 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:33:45pm

re: #1215 Walter L. Newton
[Link: themoderatevoice.com...]


Here is one and it took 2 seconds to find. Let me know if you want me to find more

1229 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:34:16pm

re: #1212 pingjockey

Never got to NZ. The dateline is weird, going west you skip a day, coming back east, you have 2 of the same days.

he told me they zig zagged north across it headed for Tarawa, then did a giant 190 and repeated the course...they said Tarawa would be a 8hr cleanup if any IJA were left alive

1230 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:34:42pm

re: #1222 Obdicut
Will you calm down and listen...I know personally 9 people who have a PH, all were got in combat. In combat you are usually shot, shrapnel struck, stabbed, etc... sever trauma IOW. That's what I've personally seen. So my experience was PH = pretty bad injury.

1231 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:35:12pm

re: #1225 Racer X

i.e. Taking over GMC, Health Care, Cap and Trade.....

1232 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:35:19pm

re: #1217 Tackleberry

What's wrong with making more money. You have something wrong with people making a lot of money for whatever reason


Yeah because that's exactly what I meant. No, what I mean obviously is Rush is going to get more listeners than he ever would under a Republican presidency. He continues to talk about Barrack the tyrant, the more listeners he gets. Not going to get that with a Republican in the White House.

1233 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:35:35pm

re: #1227 Obdicut

Yeah. It's a Marine thing. Don't call 'em soldier, and don't call them an ex-Marine. They take the semper seriously.

One famous poster on Fark claimed to be an ex-marine, a soldier in the Marine Core.

Same guy blamed another dumbass post on his wife typing instead of him.

TheConvincingSavant fanclub represent!

Did you know he is still trying to pass himself off as a Marine?

1234 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:35:41pm

re: #1231 Tackleberry

I suppose Bush was a socialist as well, no?

1235 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:35:50pm

re: #1227 Obdicut

Yeah. It's a Marine thing. Don't call 'em soldier, and don't call them an ex-Marine. They take the semper seriously.

Thanks.

1236 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:36:03pm

re: #1220 Walter L. Newton

Please link me to a quote of him using the phrase "redistributing wealth?" YOU LOOSE, because you can't.

He did say "share the wealth" in that exchange with "Joe the Plumber". But that's not the same word.

1237 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:36:21pm

re: #1234 Varek Raith

I suppose Bush was a socialist as well, no?

And how. He wasn't even very good at it, either, which made the whole thing very frustrating.

1238 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:36:30pm

WaPo Factchecker

Obama's Redistribution 'Bombshell'

With just over a week to go until the election, the McCain campaign is stepping up its efforts to portray Barack Obama as a closet "socialist" bent on implementing a major redistribution of wealth in American society. The Illinois Democrat's remarks to "Joe the Plumber" on "spreading the wealth around" are Exhibit A in the Son of Karl Marx argument. Exhibit B is a newly-discovered interview that Obama gave to a Chicago public radio station back in 2001 in which he mentioned the R-word several times in a generally positive context.

Did Obama really say what the McCain camp says he said?
The Facts

"Obama Bombshell Audio Uncovered. He wants to Radically Reinterpret the Constitution to Redistribute Wealth!!" runs the YouTube headline from the conservative video blog Naked Emperor News. "This video exposes the radical beneath the rhetoric."

On closer inspection, the "bombshell audio" turns out to be a rather wonkish, somewhat impenetrable, discussion of the Supreme Court under Earl Warren. Obama, then a University of Chicago law professor and Illinois state senator, argued that the courts have traditionally been reluctant to get involved in income distribution questions. He suggested that the civil rights movement had made a mistake in expecting too much from the courts -- and that such issues were better decided by the legislative branch of government.

SNIP

The Pinocchio Test

With very few exceptions, all American politicians, including both presidential candidates, are in favor of a progressive income tax system and welfare policies (such as Medicare and Social Security) that "redistribute wealth." Barack Obama is more enthusiastic about "spreading the wealth around" than his Republican rival. But that does not make him a "Socialist." The McCain camp is wrong to suggest that the Illinois senator advocated an "wealth redistribution" role for the Supreme Court in his 2001 interview.

Earned 2 Pinocchios

1239 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:36:40pm

re: #1193 Cato the Elder

Or maybe it's "Frog".

In any case, McNamara was a stand-up guy who took responsibility for his part in things without going over the edge into Ramsey Clark moonbattery. I said a prayer for his soul when he died last year.

1240 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:36:56pm

re: #1230 pingjockey

You claimed the criteria for a purple heart was a hospital stay. You were flat-out wrong. The criteria are very clearly spelled out. Every vet I've met knew them, as well. Yet this is what you said:

You don't get a Purple Heart ans not spend ANY time in the hospital.

And in your effort to smear Kerry, you smeared my granduncle. I do not take kindly to that.

1241 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:37:07pm

re: #1232 HappyWarrior

Ya I agree with you there..

1242 Racer X  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:37:15pm

re: #1220 Walter L. Newton

Please link me to a quote of him using the phrase "redistributing wealth?" YOU LOOSE, because you can't.

Youtube Video
1243 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:37:49pm

re: #1226 The Shadow Do

Thank you.

1244 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:38:05pm

re: #1199 Obdicut

Eternal Gaze

[Video]

I liked the video even though I was scared when the door kicked open.
I'm watching Part 2 now.

1245 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:38:07pm

re: #1231 Tackleberry

i.e. Taking over GMC, Health Care, Cap and Trade...

Any responsible president who believes in the Constitution would let a major American industry with all of its downstream effects on the economy collapse. Also, poison ourselves and accelerate the inability of the planet to support our lifestyle and bankrupt ourselves with medical costs. It's compassionate, really.

1246 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:38:18pm

re: #1227 Obdicut

A Marine soldier?! It better hope some real damn gyrenes don't find it.
My neighbors kid joined the Corps last year. Took him and my boys to a Mariners game and I told him everything I could think of on mail bouys, relative bearing grease, other arcane and secret stuff.

1247 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:38:58pm

re: #1240 Obdicut

And in your effort to smear Kerry, you smeared my granduncle. I do not take kindly to that.

Kerry doesn't need anyone to "smear" him - that he did all on his own hook.

Don't conflate your regard for your granduncle with regard for Kerry; you can defend your own without defending such as he.

1248 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:39:44pm

re: #1233 Dante41

He never recanted, but I don't post on Fark anymore. He was down to threadshitting when I left, rather than actually engaging with people and making more lies. What a joke that dude was.

The internet has actually made it kind of harder to catch fake vets out; it's a lot easier for them to do the research and make up a good story.

1249 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:39:53pm

re: #1129 pingjockey

Kerry pisses me off on a much higher level. Medals he was awarded that were not deserved.

My God, there are still people out there who believe the swift boat bullshit?:

A serious discrepancy in the account of Kerry's accusers came to light Aug. 19, when the Washington Post reported that Navy records describe Thurlow himself as dodging enemy bullets during the same incident, for which Thurlow also was awarded the Bronze Star.

Thurlow's citation - which the Post said it obtained under the Freedom of Information Act - says that "all units began receiving enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks" after the first explosion. The citation describes Thurlow as leaping aboard the damaged PCF-3 and rendering aid "while still under enemy fire," and adds: "His actions and courage in the face of enemy fire . . . were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service."

A separate document that recommended Thurlow for that decoration states that all Thurlow's actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire." It was signed by Elliott.

The Post quoted Thurlow as saying he had lost his citation years earlier and had been under the impression that he received the award for aiding the damaged boat and its crew, and that his own award would be "fraudulent" if based on his facing enemy fire.

Yeah, that goddamned liar just happened to lose the very citation that undermines his lie, and then proceed to lie about his impression of what his own award was for. And STILL some people will repeat and up-ding those lies, what the fuck, did they forgo the hook, line & sinker and swallow the entire tackle box instead?

1250 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:40:05pm

re: #1240 Obdicut
Sorry about your granduncle, didn't mean to diss him. Kerry can go piss up a rope.

1251 Kragar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:40:46pm

re: #1246 pingjockey

A Marine soldier?! It better hope some real damn gyrenes don't find it.

Tell the guy to start running. We prefer moving targets. More fun that way.

1252 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:41:27pm

re: #1247 Guanxi88

I am defending the awarding of medals by the US military. Once we start saying some people got medals undeservedly, we're throwing the whole thing into the toilet. That makes me angry.

So does someone posting inaccurate information about the criteria for the award of a medal.

1253 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:41:45pm

re: #1250 pingjockey

Sorry about your granduncle, didn't mean to diss him. Kerry can go piss up a rope.

Quite Concur.

1254 Lidane  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:41:46pm

Have we covered the threats that some of these far right chuckleheads are making against the kids of the legislators who voted for HCR?

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

They're quoting Goldwater, fer chrissakes. I have a feeling if he was alive today, Goldwater would be telling these mouth breathers to STFU and stop taking him out of context.

1255 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:41:50pm

re: #1249 goddamnedfrank
Go to hell. It's his PH and some other stuff that piss me off.

1256 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:42:15pm

re: #1154 freetoken

WND and, of course, Rush Limbaugh are now on the "end of elections" meme:

Rush Limbaugh: Elections could end thanks to Obama

Heh... hand it to Limbaugh, he wrapped together both the end-of-elections meme with the immigration hot button. Limbaugh is an evil, but brilliant, but talker.

F**k Rush...coming from someone that used to hold him in high esteem, he's shown his true colors and cemented his place as a cornerstone of the whacko right-wing Krayzee Krackhead Khorus.

/"only satire", my ass...

1257 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:42:20pm

re: #1249 goddamnedfrank

I believe Kerry is a fraud who lied through his teeth, regardless of any body else's opinion

1258 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:43:17pm

re: #1250 pingjockey

That's fine. But you still posted massively wrong information about the criteria for the award of the purple heart. That is a bad thing to do.

You cannot say something as general as saying you don't get a purple heart without a hospital stay without implying that all of the many, many, many, many wounded vets who did not have a hospital stay due to their wounds did not really deserve their purple hearts. So don't do it.

1259 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:43:29pm

re: #1242 Racer X

ahhh.. sorry walter. maybe you need to listen to that again. And I know you remember him talking to Joe the Plumber... If you want the video go google it. everyone else in America has seen it

1260 Racer X  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:43:37pm

re: #1257 albusteve

I believe Kerry is a fraud who lied through his teeth, regardless of any body else's opinion

John Kerry is a douche.

IMHO.

1261 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:43:37pm

re: #1252 Obdicut

I am defending the awarding of medals by the US military. Once we start saying some people got medals undeservedly, we're throwing the whole thing into the toilet. That makes me angry.

So does someone posting inaccurate information about the criteria for the award of a medal.

oh fer gods sake, lighten up...people do get medals undeservedly, live with it

1262 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:44:17pm

re: #1252 Obdicut

I am defending the awarding of medals by the US military. Once we start saying some people got medals undeservedly, we're throwing the whole thing into the toilet. That makes me angry.

So does someone posting inaccurate information about the criteria for the award of a medal.

We can tell you feel strongly on the subject; how abject ought the apology to be to get you to drop it already?

1263 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:44:26pm

Interesting to see people who were defending a former Lizard turned stalker with countless sock puppets and one that is actively engaged in harassing LGF and Charles turn into a reason for people here who defend that stalker and thus turn thus in full out Kerry derangement session.

1264 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:44:49pm

re: #1154 freetoken

WND and, of course, Rush Limbaugh are now on the "end of elections" meme:

Rush Limbaugh: Elections could end thanks to Obama

Well Boehner did say that HC would destroy America AND Beck's Big Board Of Doom says so too.

1265 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:44:58pm

re: #1252 Obdicut
I did my time and I'll comment if I wish. I didn't say a word about criteria, The only people I've ever known who had PHs had been in the hospital because the injuries were traumatic.

1266 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:45:16pm

re: #1263 Gus 802

Interesting to see people who were defending a former Lizard turned stalker with countless sock puppets and one that is actively engaged in harassing LGF and Charles turn into a reason for people here who defend that stalker and thus turn thus in full out Kerry derangement session.

Heh, deflectors at maximum, Captain!

1267 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:45:38pm

re: #1248 Obdicut

He never recanted, but I don't post on Fark anymore. He was down to threadshitting when I left, rather than actually engaging with people and making more lies. What a joke that dude was.

The internet has actually made it kind of harder to catch fake vets out; it's a lot easier for them to do the research and make up a good story.

Nah. They may be able to BS a civillian who never served, but they get found out instantly by a vet. Me Dad told me of a guy who tried to pas himself off as a Lurp during the same time he was a Lurp. Or something more recently, there was that idiot in Cali who pretended he was a Marine that had every medal short of the MoH and couldn't decide if he was a Sergeant Major or a Lt. Colonel.

/also, did you ever see the epic thread where FLYNAVY got outed as a phony?

1268 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:46:10pm

re: #1262 Guanxi88

I don't need any apology whatsoever. An acknowledgment the statement was completely wrong would be great, but I don't 'need' that.

Say Kerry was an asshole for throwing his medals away, say he betrayed his comrades by his actions with the anti-war movement. I won't say shit. Just don't smear the process that the military awards medals by in order to get at Kerry. There's no fucking call for it.

1269 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:46:14pm

re: #1228 Tackleberry

[Link: themoderatevoice.com...]

Here is one and it took 2 seconds to find. Let me know if you want me to find more

He didn't say that to Joe the Plumber... you're confusing things.

1270 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:46:17pm

re: #1258 Obdicut
I didn't make myself clear and for that I apologize. As far as my loathing of John Halp Uz Kary, no frakkin' way.

1271 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:46:29pm

re: #1266 Varek Raith

Heh, deflectors at maximum, Captain!

Set phasers on "stunned."

Yeah, still living in 2004.

1272 webevintage  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:46:33pm

re: #1260 Racer X

John Kerry is a douche.

IMHO.

He just might be, but he still deserved his medals.

1273 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:46:50pm

re: #1263 Gus 802

Interesting to see people who were defending a former Lizard turned stalker with countless sock puppets and one that is actively engaged in harassing LGF and Charles turn into a reason for people here who defend that stalker and thus turn thus in full out Kerry derangement session.

Who is defending TFK?

1274 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:47:00pm

re: #1198 Lidane

Oh geez.

It was tiresome when the far left did it, and it's worse now. He damn well knows better than that. =P

Unfortunately, shit sells...

1275 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:47:20pm

re: #1263 Gus 802
He's been harassing folks? That;s wrong.

1276 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:47:28pm

re: #1273 Walter L. Newton

Who is defending TFK?

Pingjockey

1277 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:47:47pm

re: #1268 Obdicut

I don't need any apology whatsoever. An acknowledgment the statement was completely wrong would be great, but I don't 'need' that.

Say Kerry was an asshole for throwing his medals away, say he betrayed his comrades by his actions with the anti-war movement. I won't say shit. Just don't smear the process that the military awards medals by in order to get at Kerry. There's no fucking call for it.

All right then. Jeez! you'd think you had a dog in the fight, the way you carry on.

1278 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:48:20pm

re: #1263 Gus 802

Interesting to see people who were defending a former Lizard turned stalker with countless sock puppets and one that is actively engaged in harassing LGF and Charles turn into a reason for people here who defend that stalker and thus turn thus in full out Kerry derangement session.

I do not defend tfk, he was banned justly and for good reason. But Kerry is in fact scum, and I feel that needs to be said.

1279 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:48:54pm

re: #1265 pingjockey

Whatever. You said:

You don't get a Purple Heart ans not spend ANY time in the hospital.

That statement is untrue. It was untrue in WWII, it was untrue in Vietnam, and it's untrue now.

1280 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:49:11pm

re: #1272 webevintage

He just might be, but he still deserved his medals.

I doubt it...John Kennedy got a Navy Cross for getting his boat run over a his crew killed

1281 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:49:14pm

re: #1263 Gus 802

Interesting to see people who were defending a former Lizard turned stalker with countless sock puppets and one that is actively engaged in harassing LGF and Charles turn into a reason for people here who defend that stalker and thus turn thus in full out Kerry derangement session.

Whoa, chill man. The crazy dude was apparently a Nam vet. Nam vets just don't like Kerry in general. I don't think anyone is trying to say that they hold that opinion because of said crazy dude.

1282 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:49:42pm

re: #1279 Obdicut

Whatever. You said:

That statement is untrue. It was untrue in WWII, it was untrue in Vietnam, and it's untrue now.

Okay, so, if you don't need an apology, then what exactly is it that will get you to drop this?

He's retracted and modified the offending statements.

1283 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:49:52pm

re: #1266 Varek Raith

Heh, deflectors at maximum, Captain!

Best get ready with your superlaser. How many Dark Side points do you get for blowing up space station full of wingnuts?

1284 Gus  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:50:07pm

re: #1278 Dark_Falcon

I do not defend tfk, he was banned justly and for good reason. But Kerry is in fact scum, and I feel that needs to be said.

OK, that's fine.

Anyway. I got better things to do then read about how much Kerry sucks for the millionth time. I went through that phase myself. That was 6 years ago.

Good bye for now.

1285 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:50:22pm

re: #1276 Gus 802
Yep. He was called a freak and I asked not to call him that and now I've had us descend into a John Kerry flashback. I had no idea tfk had been bounced or had turned into something I didn't know.

1286 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:50:56pm

re: #1280 albusteve

I doubt it...John Kennedy got a Navy Cross for getting his boat run over a his crew killed

Eh. PT Boat vs a destroyer in a fogbank. I really can't find fault for him there.

1287 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:51:09pm

re: #1283 Dark_Falcon

Best get ready with your superlaser. How many Dark Side points do you get for blowing up space station full of wingnuts?

Hmm, not sure.
:)
BBIAB.

1288 Kragar  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:51:24pm

re: #1283 Dark_Falcon

Best get ready with your superlaser. How many Dark Side points do you get for blowing up space station full of wingnuts?

None

1289 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:51:31pm

re: #1279 Obdicut
Cuase I'm piss poor at framing what I mean! I will strive to be more lucid for y'all.

1290 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:51:44pm

re: #1280 albusteve

I doubt it...John Kennedy got a Navy Cross for getting his boat run over a his crew killed

To be fair, Kennedy saved his crew after his boat was sunk. And the destroyer he lost to, the Amagiri, was a first-rate DD with an excellent captain and crew. He lost to world class opposition, that is not a disgrace IMO.

1291 bratwurst  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:52:10pm

The 2004 election campaign rolls on!

1292 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:52:58pm

re: #1289 pingjockey

Cuase I'm piss poor at framing what I mean! I will strive to be more lucid for y'all.

Don't worry yourself. We've all had many rounds of semiotic "hide the thimble" here;

1293 The Shadow Do  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:53:05pm

re: #1263 Gus 802

Interesting to see people who were defending a former Lizard turned stalker with countless sock puppets and one that is actively engaged in harassing LGF and Charles turn into a reason for people here who defend that stalker and thus turn thus in full out Kerry derangement session.

Gus, who is defending said lizard stalker. Did I miss something? And dissing Kerry is hardly grounds for the derangement tag, he earned the scorn he receives from many of us.

1294 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:53:10pm

going up, after causing an uproar.

1295 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:53:13pm

By the way, Guanxi88, have you ever had the pleasure of watching Ian Richardson in what I consider his greatest (ahem! British spelling) rôle evah? The Beeb's production of "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy", starring Alec Guinness (whose name, as an aside, has the best anagram evah: "genuine class")?

He plays the traitor Bill Haydon, an amalgam of Kim Philby and other Oxbridge moles who made lots of news back in the day. It's a letter-perfect performance, and I understand John le Carré was particularly pleased.

1296 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:53:17pm

re: #1259 Tackleberry

ahhh.. sorry walter. maybe you need to listen to that again. And I know you remember him talking to Joe the Plumber... If you want the video go google it. everyone else in America has seen it

He never said " "redistributing wealth?" You can't find it, can you. You are starting to act like a fucking lying jerk. And the statement where he was using the term "redistributing wealth," if you had read the link yourself, was in regards to civil rights.

No, agree or disagree with his concepts about the Warren Court and civil rights and his concept of restoring civil rights to black and address the 175 years of unequal footing and trying to balance that out, fine, I have no problem with how you read his statement.

But don't lie about what he said to who, because it makes you look like an idiot.

1297 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:54:07pm

re: #1269 Walter L. Newton

I'll go back and listen to it then and if I'm wrong I will apologize... That being said I'll find you some other video. :)

1298 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:54:08pm

re: #1296 Walter L. Newton

He never said " "redistributing wealth?" You can't find it, can you. You are starting to act like a fucking lying jerk. And the statement where he was using the term "redistributing wealth," if you had read the link yourself, was in regards to civil rights.

No, agree or disagree with his concepts about the Warren Court and civil rights and his concept of restoring civil rights to black and address the 175 years of unequal footing and trying to balance that out, fine, I have no problem with how you read his statement.

But don't lie about what he said to who, because it makes you look like an idiot.

Clarification to my above. He never said " "redistributing wealth" to Joe the Plumber.

1299 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:54:31pm

re: #1291 bratwurst

The 2004 election campaign rolls on!

Well, on the bright side, the Obama is a socialist nonsense has calmed.

1300 Dante41  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:54:31pm

re: #1291 bratwurst

The 2004 election campaign rolls on!

Nah. Kerry has always been and will always be a sore topic with Vietnam vets. It has nothing to do with politics.

1301 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:54:38pm

re: #1286 Dante41

Eh. PT Boat vs a destroyer in a fogbank. I really can't find fault for him there.

most people can't because they only heard the Navy version...he was nearly court marshaled for being out of position, out of radio contact, crew asleep and his engines shut off...the fog is a myth, and Joe Sr lobbied for the medal relentlessly, for obvious reasons...the whole thing was scrubbed Kennedy fashion, but the story is still out there in bits and pieces

1302 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:54:46pm

re: #751 Alouette

There is a distinction between "uppity" and "elitist."

"Uppity" are people who try to rise above their social status by their own achievements.
"Elitist" are people who think they are entitled to a high social status without making any effort.

"Uppity" is a gorram dogwhistle. It means "a n***g who tries to rise above slavehood".

That is all.

1303 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:54:48pm

re: #1295 Cato the Elder

By the way, Guanxi88, have you ever had the pleasure of watching Ian Richardson in what I consider his greatest (ahem! British spelling) rôle evah? The Beeb's production of "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy", starring Alec Guinness (whose name, as an aside, has the best anagram evah: "genuine class")?

He plays the traitor Bill Haydon, an amalgam of Kim Philby and other Oxbridge moles who made lots of news back in the day. It's a letter-perfect performance, and I understand John le Carré was particularly pleased.

Yes, but my first intro to the man was as FU. The man's a really under-rated gem of an actor. By gad! He's a better heavy than Sidney Greenstreet.

1304 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:54:58pm

re: #1200 Walter L. Newton

And when did he ever say he wanted to "redistributing wealth?"

Remember what he said to Joe the Plumber?

1305 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:55:22pm

re: #1157 Cato the Elder

I'm sure you've already seen this then and FOSNA.

1306 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:56:19pm

re: #1301 albusteve

most people can't because they only heard the Navy version...he was nearly court marshaled for being out of position, out of radio contact, crew asleep and his engines shut off...the fog is a myth, and Joe Sr lobbied for the medal relentlessly, for obvious reasons...the whole thing was scrubbed Kennedy fashion, but the story is still out there in bits and pieces

Navy version - false. Great Aunt Petunia's email blast - totally legit.

/

1307 albusteve  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:56:30pm

re: #1290 Dark_Falcon

To be fair, Kennedy saved his crew after his boat was sunk. And the destroyer he lost to, the Amagiri, was a first-rate DD with an excellent captain and crew. He lost to world class opposition, that is not a disgrace IMO.

yeah, it happened all the time...haha!

1308 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:56:39pm

re: #1289 pingjockey

Cuase I'm piss poor at framing what I mean! I will strive to be more lucid for y'all.

And as for precision - don't bother to seek it or insist on it in others. As one of your interlocutors here famously observed in his first days here, language can only approximate at meaning. Odd that one capable of this insight should decide that the solution to linguistic problems would be to universalize his own modes, methods, and meanings of discourse.

1309 Racer X  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:56:45pm

re: #1304 MandyManners

Remember what he said to Joe the Plumber?

I posted the video above. You can hear what Obama said in his own words.

1310 jvic  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:58:04pm

re: #1211 jvic

AMBUH is an index of health insurance stocks. It's up more than 85% in the last year.

Snide remarks and bad puns.

It's a metric to watch as Obamacare continues. But the metrics I really worry about are the ones for biotech innovation.

A biotech metric (the XBI ETF) is up over 30%, underperforming the insurance stocks. So I see no reason to reconsider my opposition to Obamacare.

1311 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 4:59:12pm

re: #1244 Silvergirl

I liked the video even though I was scared when the door kicked open.
I'm watching Part 2 now.

Doors kicking open? Do they do that on their own now?

I'm scared. If Obama can now make my door kick open without sending any jackbooted census thugs, I'm really scared.

1312 Guanxi88  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:00:06pm

re: #1311 Cato the Elder

Doors kicking open? Do they do that on their own now?

I'm scared. If Obama can now make my door kick open without sending any jackbooted census thugs, I'm really scared.

You read Dune; he has the Weirding Way, but does not require the Module.

1313 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:00:18pm

re: #1296 Walter L. Newton

Youtube Video


Opps... My bad Walter Obama said if "I think if you spread the wealth around it's better for everyone".

He didnt say Redistribute Wealth but if you don't see it means the same thing then you sir, are the idiot

1314 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:00:43pm

re: #1304 MandyManners

Remember what he said to Joe the Plumber?

Yes... he said "spread the wealth" not "redistributing wealth." Big difference.

1315 laZardo  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:01:11pm

What was that about No True Scotsman again?

/special thanks to Gus 802

1316 cliffster  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:01:17pm

ABC News says that doctors disagree on Obamacare, and points out that there's not enough doctors. ABC News, wow. I thought saying that all doctors were not in lock-step with Obama was just a right-wing wacko talking point? And mentioning there's not enough doctors meant you were a right-wingnut?

1317 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:02:17pm

re: #1313 Tackleberry

[Video]

Opps... My bad Walter Obama said if "I think if you spread the wealth around it's better for everyone".

He didnt say Redistribute Wealth but if you don't see it means the same thing then you sir, are the idiot

Keep your rhetoric correct or don't play... amateur.

1318 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:02:33pm

re: #1307 albusteve

yeah, it happened all the time...haha!

More than one PT was lost to IJN destroyers. Those ships were fast and well armed, and their crews were trained for night action. Radar however, helped turn the tide in our favor, as did the retraining of US forces. But in the summer of 1943, such engagements could still go either way.

1319 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:02:39pm

re: #1313 Tackleberry

[Video]

Opps... My bad Walter Obama said if "I think if you spread the wealth around it's better for everyone".

He didnt say Redistribute Wealth but if you don't see it means the same thing then you sir, are the idiot

Yeah! And that "rising tide lifts all boats" thing is all about spreading the water around, and so if you can't see that the "rising tide" and "redistribute wealth" mean the same thing, you, sir and/or madam, are the idiot.

1320 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:02:58pm

re: #1316 cliffster

ABC News says that doctors disagree on Obamacare, and points out that there's not enough doctors. ABC News, wow. I thought saying that all doctors were not in lock-step with Obama was just a right-wing wacko talking point? And mentioning there's not enough doctors meant you were a right-wingnut?

These are right-wing wacko doctors. if that is not evident...

1321 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:03:10pm

re: #1313 Tackleberry

Don't be a dick.

1322 jayzee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:03:19pm

re: #1314 Walter L. Newton

Yes... he said "spread the wealth" not "redistributing wealth." Big difference.

You really think there is a big difference? May I ask what it is?

1323 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:03:49pm

re: #1316 cliffster

ABC News says that doctors disagree on Obamacare, and points out that there's not enough doctors. ABC News, wow. I thought saying that all doctors were not in lock-step with Obama was just a right-wing wacko talking point? And mentioning there's not enough doctors meant you were a right-wingnut?

Really? Who said that?

1324 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:04:17pm

re: #1289 pingjockey

Well, you're the first vet I've met who wasn't crystal-clear on the conditions that a purple heart is awarded under, so you've got that going for you, which is nice.

I just remembered a friend of mine who got a purple heart in Afghanistan with no hospital stay as well. Another anomaly! Boy how they pile up.

1325 Racer X  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:04:26pm

re: #1314 Walter L. Newton

Yes... he said "spread the wealth" not "redistributing wealth." Big difference.

Technically Walter, Obama used both of those phrases in the video clip I posted.

1326 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:04:47pm

re: #1308 Guanxi88

I remember my first days here, and you directly lying about what I said, to my face. Thanks for reminding me!

1327 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:05:07pm

re: #1322 jayzee

You really think there is a big difference? May I ask what it is?

Yes... one phrase has three words in it, the other has two words in it. I was correcting Tinkleberry's quotations. I never discussed what President Obama was saying or not saying, did I. Reading is comprehension.

1328 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:05:13pm

re: #1326 Obdicut

That would be my internet face, of course.

It's prettier than my real life face.

1329 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:05:21pm

re: #1199 Obdicut

Eternal Gaze

[Video]

Very moving ending in the second part when his sculptures came to life and caressed him as he died.

Thanks for posting--I'd never seen that.

1330 torrentprime  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:05:56pm

re: #1320 Walter L. Newton

These are right-wing wacko doctors. if that is not evident...

Reposting, from the other day.
Doctor story

1331 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:06:25pm

re: #1329 Silvergirl

It's one of my favorite works of art of all time.

And you're quite welcome.

1332 laZardo  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:07:45pm

Internship work calls. See yall in the afternoon/Overnight Thread.

Also, if it means that more trained doctors from over here won't have to retrain themselves as nurses when they go abroad, then I think it's quite good that demand for doctors will increase under Obamacare.

1333 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:08:23pm

re: #1325 Racer X

Walter is just mad he got proved wrong. Now he is trying to defend the obvious.

1334 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:08:37pm

re: #1311 Cato the Elder

Doors kicking open? Do they do that on their own now?

I'm scared. If Obama can now make my door kick open without sending any jackbooted census thugs, I'm really scared.

Okay, then the door flew open.
Cato: Doors have wings now?

The video posted was quality. I watched the other half on YouTube.

Nothing to do with Obama.

1335 jayzee  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:09:09pm

re: #1327 Walter L. Newton

Yes... one phrase has three words in it, the other has two words in it. I was correcting Tinkleberry's quotations. I never discussed what President Obama was saying or not saying, did I. Reading is comprehension.

I wasn't asking you about your exchange with anybody else. I asked if you really thought there was, as you said, a "big difference" between redistributing wealth and spread the wealth. To confirm, your answer is the number of words in each expression.

1336 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:11:11pm

re: #1280 albusteve

I doubt it...John Kennedy got a Navy Cross for getting his boat run over a his crew killed

So did Robert W. Copeland, Captain of the Samuel B. Roberts, the Destroyer that fought like a Battleship.

What a goddamned incompetent fuck that guy was huh, it's good thing we have brave americans like you second guessing all these naval citations from the relative safety of decades in the future.

1337 Racer X  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:11:27pm

re: #1333 Tackleberry

Walter is just mad he got proved wrong. Now he is trying to defend the obvious.

I like Walter. He is rarely proven wrong. You guys can continue arguing semantics if you like - I'll stay out of it.

;-)

1338 doubter4444  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:11:36pm

re: #1295 Cato the Elder

It's one of my all time favs, too.
He's so good, it looks effortless.

1339 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:18:52pm

re: #1336 goddamnedfrank

So did Robert W. Copeland, Captain of the Samuel B. Roberts, the Destroyer that fought like a Battleship.

What a goddamned incompetent fuck that guy was huh, it's good thing we have brave americans like you second guessing all these naval citations from the relative safety of decades in the future.

Actually, albusteve knows about the Battle of Leyte Gulf. I'm sure he already knows about the Samuel B. Roberts and her stand off Samar.

1340 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:20:36pm

re: #1333 Tackleberry

The meter's on the way up:

Youtube Video
1341 jvic  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:23:01pm

re: #1252 Obdicut

I am defending the awarding of medals by the US military. Once we start saying some people got medals undeservedly, we're throwing the whole thing into the toilet. That makes me angry.

So does someone posting inaccurate information about the criteria for the award of a medal.

1. Admiral Jeremy Michael Boorda. RIP. What a waste.

2. General of the Army George Marshall built a military record of highest distinction without ever being in combat.

3. Where there is room for reasonable doubt, I favor openness of information.

1342 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:29:33pm

re: #1339 Dark_Falcon

Actually, albusteve knows about the Battle of Leyte Gulf. I'm sure he already knows about the Samuel B. Roberts and her stand off Samar.

Well then fuckin' bully for him, and considering that shouldn't Steve know better than to question Kennedy earning the same award under virtually identical circumstances?

1343 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:44:03pm

re: #1098 kobra_55

I think the tea party pulled a lot from the liberal protesters of the Bush admin, way more than they would ever care to admit.

They said they were contemptuous of them, and that's probably true, but they were also jealous. These people got so much attention, and they were so full of themselves, and they were wrongwrongwrong.

I think it was a short hop from jealousy to imitation, and thence to madness.

1344 tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:49:08pm

re: #1340 Dark_Falcon

Just keep voting for Obama and the progressives like I'm sure you have and everything will be fine...

1345 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:50:47pm

re: #1150 Silvergirl

What will I get for casting doubt on a Boy Scout merit badge?

That's OK. I've known too many Boy Scouts.

1346 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:52:24pm

re: #1164 torrentprime

Can someone with better historical context than I have make any comparison to current politics? I have two ex-Marines as roommates, and their feelings toward Cheney and Rumsfeld are... impolite. Is their a correlation to be drawn?

A lot more people died on MacNamara's watch.

1347 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:54:00pm

re: #1344 tackleberry

LOL at the Know-Nothing Troll.

1348 Tackleberry  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 5:57:41pm

re: #1347 Dark_Falcon

Ahhh.. I see you didn't deny voting for the progressives. So sad

1349 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 6:00:32pm

re: #1280 albusteve

I doubt it...John Kennedy got a Navy Cross for getting his boat run over a his crew killed

It's so nice, the way people who were awarded medals for no good reason always seem to run on the Democratic ticket.

///

1350 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 6:03:18pm

re: #1304 MandyManners

Remember what he said to Joe the Plumber?

IIRC, he referred to 'spreading wealth around'. This is clearly un-American. Real Americans prefer wealth to be concentrated in the hands of a very small, preferably hereditary, group.

//

1351 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 6:44:52pm

re: #1348 Tackleberry

Ahhh.. I see you didn't deny voting for the progressives. So sad

My presidential votes:

1996: Bob Dole
2000: George W. Bush
2004: George W. Bush
2008: John McCain

1352 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 7:12:45pm

re: #625 Stuart Leviton

A statistical mean without a standard deviation is useless; Avon does not give the standard deviation. Nor does Avon supply a link to the Harris poll so that one can evaluate the information for their own self. I reject the poll due to insufficient information.

Your dishonesty is showing.

1353 windsagio  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 7:14:44pm

re: #1352 WindUpBird

Your dishonesty is showing.

You wanna see dishonesty? In the next thread someone whose name rhymes with Rrookly Bed is still insisting he's a democrat >>

1354 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 7:15:05pm

re: #1351 Dark_Falcon

My presidential votes:

1996: Bob Dole
2000: George W. Bush
2004: George W. Bush
2008: John McCain

Of all of the R nominees, the guy I liked best was Dole. He had no chance, but he was a good guy. And I liked McCain in 2000. Liked him a lot less when he picked Palin.

If Ron Paul or Palin is the nominee in 2012, would you pull the lever for them? People keep saying Romney will be the nominee, but I think his negatives are too high in the GOP base.

Serious question, I'm honestly curious.

1355 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 7:15:19pm

re: #1353 windsagio

You wanna see dishonesty? In the next thread someone whose name rhymes with Rrookly Bed is still insisting he's a democrat >>

hahahahahahahaha that guy is such a treat

1356 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 7:22:40pm

re: #1314 Walter L. Newton

Yes... he said "spread the wealth" not "redistributing wealth." Big difference.

Then we have this:

Redistribution of Wealth
:44

REDSTRIBUTIVE Wea..CHANGE.

Skip to 1:49
2:38

If you choose to believe that Redistributive Change is not the same as Redistribution of Wealth, which is the ENTIRE POINT of this interview...then nothing more can be done for you.

1357 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 7:23:21pm

re: #1356 Oh no...Sand People!

Then we have this:

Redistribution of Wealth
:44

REDSTRIBUTIVE Wea..CHANGE.

Skip to 1:49
2:38

If you choose to believe that Redistributive Change is not the same as Redistribution of Wealth, which is the ENTIRE POINT of this interview...then nothing more can be done for you.

Youtube Video

/might help to have the link, no?

1358 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 8:05:45pm

re: #1161 pingjockey

I can question whatever the hell I want...I spent 20 years in the Navy, 5 trips to the Persian Gulf. You don't get a Purple Heart ans not spend ANY time in the hospital. BTW, I'm still mad at the Iranians. We were supposed to go to Australia and those asshats took over our embassy. Do not go to Australia go to the Indian Ocean for 7 months...Gaaah.

Ah. Kerry wrote his own citations, then.

1359 enigma3535  Tue, Mar 23, 2010 8:28:11pm

Regarding question # 1 ... I am chagrined that so many persons in this country appear to not understand the practical definition of governance via "socialism".

Regarding question # 2 ... whatever [as I ignore the middle school level of this hypothesis].

Regarding question # 3 ... a black hole ... no pun intended.

Regarding question # 4 ... "many of the things" may actually be true ... one can be certain that converting Germany from what it was in the 20s [people wheeled around barrels of Marks to buy their groceries] to what it was in the 30s, required some fairly awesome statesmanship ... the whole "cleansing of the races thing" and invading one's neighbors, not so much.

Regarding question #5 ... it would be more telling if it was worded as "is" rather than "may be" ... I feel no affiliation with the GOP [or the Dems for that matter] but just about anything is possible ...

1360 Pacificlady  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:06:59am

Some one wanted a link to the study of ED use in Mass. after the implementation of their universal health care. Forgot who, but you remember who you are/ It's /www.urban.org/publications/1001335.html

Massachusetts residents are frequent users of emergency department (ED) care, with high levels of use continuing despite significant improvements in access to care as a result of the state’s 2006 health reform initiative. Enjoy all.

1361 badger1  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 7:44:18am

The chief pollster for ABC News blasts the methodology of this poll:

1362 badger1  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 7:52:19am

Gary Langer (chief pollster ABC):

Whatever profoundly negative things people might think about Barack Obama, a new poll out today demonstrates splendidly how not to measure them.
1363 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 9:37:18am

Again -- this is far from the first poll showing very significant support for this kind of craziness in the GOP base. And every time I post about one of these polls, the same people start spinning and rationalizing it away like crazy.

Is there a point at which you might start to realize there's a serious problem, instead of trying to deny it?

1364 badger1  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:10:54pm

re: #1363 Charles

Thanks for your response.

Re: Polls that demonstrate that Bad Craziness Dominates the GOP

I have never posted anything about polls or engaged in "spinning and rationalizing it away like crazy". I have merely posted a link and a quote from a top national (non-GOP) mainstream media pollster who says this is an absurd poll.

I suspect the ABC poll guru is not "spinning like crazy" either.

The online poll will no doubt help sell books though.

:)

PS I also spoke to a top professor of polling at the University of Wisconsin who scoffed at the Harris Interactive methodology. Its worth less than nothing in his estimation.

1365 bombarafat  Fri, Mar 26, 2010 8:27:08am

Point #1 that he is a socialist is not craziness, that's fact. Even Al Sharptongue admitted it. No need to label the message crazy because the messenger is crazy.
Point #2 maybe Obama doesn't consider himself a Muslim, but the Muslim world considers himself a Muslim. Remember Islam is a patrilineal religion unlike other religions which are matrilinieal. B.O.'s father was a follower of the R.O.P. so in their eyes he is one too. Even worse, they would consider him to be an apostate.

The other points are just silly.


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Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 83 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
5 days ago
Views: 189 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1