FBI Investigates ‘Suspicious Incident’ in Virginia

The FBI is investigating a cut propane gas line at the home of the brother of pro-health bill Rep. Tom Perriello’s (D-Va.), after the address was posted on the web by tea party “activists.”

Lee Catlin, community relations director for the Albemarle County Fire Marshal, said in a statement to POLITICO that the office is “investigating a suspicious incident” at the home of the congressman’s brother. “The Fire Marshal’s Office is conducting the investigation in cooperation with the FBI,” Catlin said. “While officials are not willing to characterize the exact nature of the incident because of the ongoing investigation, it did not involve an immediate threat to occupants of the residence. However officials are taking the incident very seriously and conducting a vigorous investigation,” the statement said.

POLITICO reported on Monday that Mike Troxel, an organizer for the Lynchburg Tea Party, posted on his blog what he thought was the congressman’s address, encouraging tea party activists to “drop by.”

The address has since been posted on websites of at least one other local tea party activist.

Another word for this kind of “activism” starts with a T.

Jump to bottom

793 comments

1 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:41:55am

I was thinking a ‘D’ for: Domestic Terrorist. But I have to wait the 24 hour rule to ensure the person is a citizen.

2 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:42:49am

I hope this fucktard gets his assets frozen pending an investigation. I’d love for these assholes to realize that there are consequences for illegal actions.

3 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:43:43am

And this is way more nefarious than anything Ann Coulter was facing in Ottawa. She knew what she was getting into.

4 Soap_Man  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:44:26am

Charles’ “No posting of addresses” policy should be the standard for websites and blogs.

In fact, there is a Law and Order episode about this. A blogger posted the address and even the building security code for someone and encouraged his readers to “pay him a visit.”

One did take his advice of “paying a visit”, and killed the guy. The blogger was charged with accessory to murder. I wonder how long it will be until life imitates art.

5 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:44:37am

re: #1 Oh no…Sand People!

I was thinking a ‘D’ for: Domestic Terrorist. But I have to wait the 24 hour rule to ensure the person is a citizen.

He is…he also said he thought posting the brother’s address was “collateral damage”


Danville Tea Party leader Nigel Coleman was one of the two activists who posted Bo Perriello’s address online Monday.

“This is Rep. Thomas Stuart Price Perriello’s home address,” Coleman wrote Monday. “… I ain’t holding back anymore!!”

According to the Politico Web site, when Coleman learned that the address actually belonged to the congressman’s brother, he responded on a blog: “Do you mean I posted his brother’s address on my Facebook? Oh well, collateral damage.”

Coleman told The Daily Progress today that he is “shocked” and “almost speechless” at the possibility that someone would sever the propane line to Perriello’s brother’s house.

6 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:44:47am

This is also brought to you by the letter C for Criminal. Seriously this is getting way out of hand. Heard about reps in Arizona and other states having their offices windows smashed. I fear though the worst is to come though especially if the administration pursues a really hot button issue like immigration.

7 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:46:18am

re: #6 HappyWarrior

This is also brought to you by the letter C for Criminal. Seriously this is getting way out of hand. Heard about reps in Arizona and other states having their offices windows smashed. I fear though the worst is to come though especially if the administration pursues a really hot button issue like immigration.

Immigration Reform will bring out the best in people, I’m sure.
/

8 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:47:20am

re: #5 darthstar

I am talking about the actual perpetrator of the cut propane line. Have they found out who did this?

9 MJ  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:47:38am

Weiner targeted for health care advocacy

March 24, 2010

WASHINGTON (JTA) — A Jewish congressman who figured prominently in passing the health care reform bill received anti-Semitic notes during the final days of passage.

U.S. Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) was among the most visible and outspoken proponents of the legislation, which the Congress approved Sunday.

Some opponents of the bill affiliated with the Tea Party movement spent last weekend jeering its most prominent advocates; at times the jeers devolved into epithets hurled at African-American and gay members.

Weiner’s office confirmed receiving anti-Semitic notes, including one signed with a swastika. Another addressed Weiner as “Shlomo.”


jta.org

10 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:47:42am

You can’t say the Tea Party is responsible for everything their crazy followers …

wait, what?

Mike Troxel, an organizer for the Lynchburg Tea Party, posted on his blog what he thought was the congressman’s address, encouraging tea party activists to “drop by.”

Oh. Never mind.

11 sffilk  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:48:24am

You know, this really stinks! And what’s worse is there’s a chance the “person” (and I use that term loosely) who cut the propane gas line may never be found or identified because of his/her friends who want to send a message to the Congressman.

12 nanook37  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:49:59am

Wow - Potentially blowing up a family because a guys brother voted for the Health Care Bill and this Tea Party nut thinks that would be collateral damage. I hope the FBI has some nice long talks with Mr. Troxel and some his Facebook friends

13 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:50:26am

Well whoever it was I’m sure it was just a liberal plant or orchastrated by the congressman’s own family.

How do I know this? I just read it on the internets.

///

14 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:50:42am

re: #8 Oh no…Sand People!

I am talking about the actual perpetrator of the cut propane line. Have they found out who did this?

Well, I’m guessing Ahmadinejad isn’t so upset about America adopting comprehensive health care reform that he’s sending agents to cut the propane lines to the houses of people who happen to be related to a congressman.

And the Tea Party group isn’t exactly an ‘international organization’ let alone an interracial one…hell, they only have one black guy they can parade in front of the cameras. You think they’ve got some foreign Jihadists in their club?

15 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:51:37am

This seems to be giving them some attention - a little more than they expected. If you go to (what seems to be) their website, you get a great big “Bandwidth Limit Exceeded

16 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:52:09am

Sarah Palin is gonna be in trouble for those cross hairs on people. Telling her folks to take aim.

17 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:52:14am

Glenn Reynolds advocating that people should stop paying taxes…

SHIKHA DALMIA on non-violent resistance to ObamaCare. “President Barack Obama came into office promising hope and change. But he might get more change than he hoped for. By foisting ObamaCare on a deeply unwilling country he might have set the stage for the largest civil disobedience movement since the civil rights era, which, if it plays its cards right, could undo his legislation and his legacy… . By some estimates, Uncle Sam will need to hire an additional 17,000 IRS agents or so just to enforce the coverage mandate. But even if a few million Americans simultaneously refuse to abide by it, they could easily overwhelm the system. Self-rule or swaraj, Gandhi said, requires a collective understanding of the immense capacity of citizens to ‘regulate and control’ the coercive apparatus of the state through mass nonviolent resistance.”
18 keithgabryelski  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:52:24am

but but but … the tea party movement is only a state-rights, small government, lower taxes movement inspired by our founding fathers and supported by patriots.

19 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:53:31am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Glenn Reynolds advocating that people should stop paying taxes…

Isn’t this the same guy who hinted that Iraq War opponents were Saddam supporters? I bet he wasn’t too fond of people threatening not to pay their taxes over Iraq. He needs to get over it. We all pay taxes for things we don’t like.

20 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:53:32am

re: #9 MJ

Weiner targeted for health care advocacy

March 24, 2010


[Link: www.jta.org…]

Black congressmen called “N—-ER” , Hispanic congressmen called ‘spic’ and ‘wetback’, Barney Frank called ‘faggot’ and ‘homo’…it’s just an isolated incident. As is this gas-line cutting…no connection to the TeaParty/GOP…none at all.

21 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:54:10am

I haven’t seen a singly right wing blog, tea party leader or politician condemn the threats to elected officials.

22 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:55:08am

re: #20 darthstar

Black congressmen called “N—-ER” , Hispanic congressmen called ‘spic’ and ‘wetback’, Barney Frank called ‘faggot’ and ‘homo’…it’s just an isolated incident. As is this gas-line cutting…no connection to the TeaParty/GOP…none at all.

I would imagine that most of this can be connected to actual Republicans. Not sure if I can find a policy point on the GOP official website.

23 blueraven  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:55:12am

re: #21 Killgore Trout

I haven’t seen a singly right wing blog, tea party leader or politician condemn the threats to elected officials.


Noticeable silence by many that were heavily involved on the thread downstairs. You would think this would be universally condemned by all Lizards.

24 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:55:58am

Not to minimize this act of apparent vandalism and intimidation, but assuming the propane line was cut outdoors between the propane tank and a BBQ or the house, could this have resulted in an explosion?

25 Lidane  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:56:00am

Reposted from downstairs, but ThinkProgress has more on this story:

thinkprogress.org

26 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:56:01am

re: #19 HappyWarrior

Glenn Beck has floated the idea too. Of course the pundits are going to pay their taxes but the dupes who listen to them are going to find themselves in a lot of trouble.

27 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:56:16am

The hysteria over this issue seems breathtakingly out of proportion to what’s actually being enacted.

Does anyone have any links on research on this topic? I’m completely puzzled. The level of vitriol (and now this sort of action) is astounding.

28 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:56:40am

re: #23 blueraven

Noticeable silence by many that were heavily involved on the thread downstairs. You would think this would be universally condemned by all Lizards.

I can’t speak for other Lizards (and neither can you), but of course this is beyond reasonable disagreement.

29 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:57:32am

re: #23 blueraven

Noticeable silence by many that were heavily involved on the thread downstairs. You would think this would be universally condemned by all Lizards.

It should be. Before we all blow our tops over this all a “cut” propane line gets you is an empty tank. The only way it would have exploded is if whatever asshat cut it was smoking a cigarette while they did it.

30 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:58:13am

re: #21 Killgore Trout

I haven’t seen a singly right wing blog, tea party leader or politician condemn the threats to elected officials.

Which threats are you referring to?

31 pharmmajor  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:58:24am

Why does it seem like this country is further descending into insanity on a daily basis.

32 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:59:13am

re: #29 RogueOne

It should be. Before we all blow our tops over this all a “cut” propane line gets you is an empty tank. The only way it would have exploded is if whatever asshat cut it was smoking a cigarette while they did it.

Sure, we can wait to find out the specifics of this cut line, maybe it wasn’t so bad.

But, add it together with the other threats going on right now, and the threatening rhetoric being tossed around, and it is something, cannot be denied.

33 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:00:21pm

This crosses a very bright and clear line by anybodies standards.

It’s not unreasonable to expect opponents of the bill to condemn this in order to calm things down.

Keep any sort of “retaliation” to voting in elections.

34 Nanook37  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:00:50pm

re: #24 Spare O’Lake

re: #24 Spare O’Lake

Not to minimize this act of apparent vandalism and intimidation, but assuming the propane line was cut outdoors between the propane tank and a BBQ or the house, could this have resulted in an explosion?

It potentially could - some talks have valve that closes when the line is damaged (they shut if the rate of flow becomes too great) but without this type of valve gas could migrate along the line and into the house and it concentration reached the lower explosive limit it could cause a house to explode.

35 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:00:58pm

re: #32 Stanley Sea

Sure, we can wait to find out the specifics of this cut line, maybe it wasn’t so bad.

But, add it together with the other threats going on right now, and the threatening rhetoric being tossed around, and it is something, cannot be denied.

I deal with cut gas lines all the time, part of the fun of welding. Whoever did it should be arrested for vandalism but lets nut jump to conclusions that they were trying to blow something up. If they were, they went about it all wrong.

36 simoom  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:01:19pm

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Glenn Reynolds advocating that people should stop paying taxes…

That goes along with the Senate GOP starting their work strike today, which shut down all the hearings today
voices.washingtonpost.com
huffingtonpost.com

Armed Services Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.) asked for consent for his panel to operate Wednesday afternoon. He noted, ironically, that his request had the support of McCain.

“There is objection on our side of the aisle and therefore I object,” said Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.).

The GOP objection blocked testimony from Admiral Robert Willard, United States Navy Commander of the U.S. Pacific Command; from General Kevin Chilton, United States Air Force, Commander of the U.S. Strategic Command, and from General Walter Sharp, United States Army Commander, U.S. Forces Korea.

Without unanimous consent, committees are allowed to meet for two hours following the opening of the Senate session — which on Wednesday was 9:00 a.m. The committees need consent to continue and consent again to continue after 2:00 p.m. Sen. Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii), Chairman of the Veterans’ Affairs Committee, had his hearing shut down abruptly at 11:00 Wednesday morning, in the middle of a discussion on the effort to end veteran homelessness in the next five years.

Bad optics?

37 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:01:44pm

re: #27 JoyousMN

The Southern Poverty Law Center is a very good resource.

splcenter.org

38 simoom  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:02:13pm

re: #36 simoom

That goes along with the Senate GOP starting their work strike today,

Oops, make that “goes along well with”.

39 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:02:21pm

re: #34 Nanook37

re: #24 Spare O’Lake

It potentially could - some talks have valve that closes when the line is damaged (they shut if the rate of flow becomes too great) but without this type of valve gas could migrate along the line and into the house and it concentration reached the lower explosive limit it could cause a house to explode.

You cannot cut a hose on the exterior of a building and have gas accumulate on the inside. As long as the tank is on there is always pressure in the hose, once there is a leak the only thing that happens (unless you light it) is the tank goes empty.

40 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:02:58pm

re: #37 Obdicut

Thanks.

41 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:03:08pm

re: #36 simoom

What assholes.

But of course, calling them ‘obstructionist’ is somehow going too far.

42 ShaunP  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:03:59pm

re: #36 simoom

Bad optics?

I thought they were supposed to act like adults?

43 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:04:10pm

Once again still can’t believe these people are operating out of a place called Lynchburg…

44 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:05:20pm

re: #43 jamesfirecat

Once again still can’t believe these people are operating out of a place called Lynchburg…

Famous for being the home of Jerry Falwell & Liberty University.

45 abbyadams  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:05:23pm

I have a thought. Pay attention, because it might be said that these are rare.

If you are a Republican, and have not been doing so, PLEASE call your Reps, Senators, local governors, and tell them to CALL THESE ASSES OUT. ENOUGH. I came to this forum as what I thought was an (I), with a lean left on social issues. No more. I’m a leftie, I guess, if this is what the right’s elected officials will accept.

I am NOT saying that ANYONE here condones this crap. But your elected officials are if they stand silent. I’ve written my rep (who is an R) repeatedly, and asked nicely if they would please disown this type of language and behavior. I got:

“We need to drill here drill now.” in response.

Enough.

46 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:05:47pm

re: #34 Nanook37

re: #24 Spare O’Lake

It potentially could - some talks have valve that closes when the line is damaged (they shut if the rate of flow becomes too great) but without this type of valve gas could migrate along the line and into the house and it concentration reached the lower explosive limit it could cause a house to explode.

If the line was cut then how could the gas migrate across the gap and along the other section of the line?
Maybe if it was cut but both ends were still touching eachother?
Seems unlikely…but I guess it’s possible.

47 abbyadams  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:07:03pm

re: #45 abbyadams

(Adding, I know that nothing is “proven,” yet in this incident. Nevertheless, it would be nice to see someone, ANYONE, disowning Rush, etc. Or Sarah, who said to “reload” today, and has gun sights targeting Dems on her PAC’s webpage.)

48 Nanook37  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:07:39pm

re: #27 JoyousMN

The hysteria over this issue seems breathtakingly out of proportion to what’s actually being enacted.

Does anyone have any links on research on this topic? I’m completely puzzled. The level of vitriol (and now this sort of action) is astounding.

I find it astounding as well but many of these people get all of their information from Fox News, Rush, Red State, Hot Air, etc.. and all they have heard is that the bill is socialism that will destroy America. They were promised that this bill would fail and now that it passed the people who passed it must be evil and can be”collateral damage”.

When you chose to live in the echo chamber (like so many people on both sides) and only hear one thing it is easy for them to overreact.

49 abbyadams  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:07:44pm

And…am called into work.

50 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:10:14pm

re: #46 Spare O’Lake

If the line was cut then how could the gas migrate across the gap and along the other section of the line?
Maybe if it was cut but both ends were still touching eachother?
Seems unlikely…but I guess it’s possible.

Well, I think that if the line was intentionally cut, then that’s really the only issue. Intentionally cut by someone incompetent or competent?

51 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:10:46pm

re: #30 cliffster

Stupak receives death threats after voting for health reform.

As ThinkProgress has chronicled, the passage of health care reform has resulted in a series of vandalism incidents and threats aimed at lawmakers who voted for the bill. Vandals have struck the Tuscon office of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), the Monroe County Democratic Committee headquarters in upstate New York, Rep. Louise Slaughter’s (D-NY) Niagara Falls office, the Knox County Democratic headquarters in Ohio, and the Sedgwick County Democratic Party headquarters in Wichita, KS. Now, Politico reports that Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI), an anti-abortion Democrat who held out his support for the legislation until Sunday, has received phone calls threatening his life:

52 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:11:36pm

conservative blogs are calling for the smashing of windows


sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com

54 Ericus58  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:11:50pm

re: #23 blueraven

Noticeable silence by many that were heavily involved on the thread downstairs. You would think this would be universally condemned by all Lizards.

Easy on the stones, now. Some of us are juggling duties at the same time… and may just be dinging in agreement.

55 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:11:52pm

Troxel himself lives at 666 Bombthrower Lane in Lynchlaw, VA

56 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:12:00pm

re: #51 Killgore Trout

cont….

Politico also reports that “Rep. Dennis Cardoza, a Blue Dog Democrat from California, said he’s gotten physical threats over health care reform.” “There are some folks that identified themselves as being members of the tea party [who] called, [and] my staff has gotten to know their names over time, and they have been very loud and very ugly,” Cardoza said. Additionally, the Capitol Hill newspaper notes that “Rep. Earl Pomeroy (D-ND) said he had to change his personal cell phone number after a Republican gave it out to health care opponents.” The chairman of the North Dakota Republican Party read Pomeroy’s cell phone number aloud on the stage of the North Dakota Republican convention.
57 blueraven  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:13:18pm

re: #35 RogueOne

I deal with cut gas lines all the time, part of the fun of welding. Whoever did it should be arrested for vandalism but lets nut jump to conclusions that they were trying to blow something up. If they were, they went about it all wrong.

Incompetence doesnt make it not a terrorist act. I think we have seen plenty of that.

58 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:13:21pm

re: #51 Killgore Trout

Stupak receives death threats after voting for health reform.

I sad to say my prediction is that this won’t end till some one is dead. It will take blood to precipitate the needed crackdown. I really, really, hope I’m wrong. The Feds seriously need to land on this behavior with both feet.

59 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:13:46pm

Virginia Tea Partiers Endorse Posting Periello’s Home Address, Insist They’re Not ‘A Violent Group Of People’

Another Tea Party member who approves of what Troxel is doing is Kurt Feigel, who “who frequently works and communicates with Troxel and runs a companion blog.” He told ThinkProgress yesterday that he had no problem with posting lawmaker’s home addresses. Feigel has posted YouTube videos advocating people to send “traitor” lawmakers ropes and stock up on guns and ammunition in case the political situation in this country gets too bad. Watch a compilation:

Youtube Video

60 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:15:00pm

re: #52 SpaceJesus

conservative blogs are calling for the smashing of windows

[Link: sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com…]

Wow…I didn’t realize this was life or death for those fucktards:

This act will order all of us to play or pay, and if we do not wish to, we will be fined.

If we refuse to pay the fine out of principle, we will be jailed.

If we resist arrest, we will be killed.

They will send the Internal Revenue Service and other federal police to do this in thousands of small Wacos, if that is what it takes to force us to submit.

61 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:15:10pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Virginia Tea Partiers Endorse Posting Periello’s Home Address, Insist They’re Not ‘A Violent Group Of People’

Another Tea Party member who approves of what Troxel is doing is Kurt Feigel, who “who frequently works and communicates with Troxel and runs a companion blog.” He told ThinkProgress yesterday that he had no problem with posting lawmaker’s home addresses. Feigel has posted YouTube videos advocating people to send “traitor” lawmakers ropes and stock up on guns and ammunition in case the political situation in this country gets too bad. Watch a compilation:


[Video]


conservatives really are living in their own dream world at this point

62 9Iron  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:15:24pm

Does the left want to take ownership of all activities of the wackos of the extremes of their ideology? Protest Warrior has plenty of documentation in case the handiwork of Greenpeace, ELF, and all of those Bush is Hitler signs marching at the G-8 summits don’t ring a bell. I am conservative, have been at this site for a long time but don’t post much, but don’t claim whoever did this anymore than most fair minded liberals claim the destructive torching of Hummer dealerships by those ELF asshats. This guy, if caught, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Not all right wingers and tea partiers are nut jobs but many love to pile on when they are able to prop up a handful of examples of such. Just my $0.02.

63 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:15:42pm

A note about healthcare reform… There has already been some change from the bill - for the positive.

One of my relatives needs seizure medication. They have been on this medication for over two years - and it is/was/is covered by the insurance.

The insurance company decided on a whim that they would no longer cover this medication. My father, an attorney, a good attorney, got on the phone with them and pointed out some of the language in the health care bill that prevents them from arbitrarily changing coverage.

He also mentioned the sorts of punitive damages that they are now potentially open for. The insurance company, now sees the error of its ways and is going back to covering the medication - which they had already approved and had been paying for for over two years.

64 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:15:58pm

re: #60 darthstar

see my 61

65 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:16:47pm

re: #62 9Iron

At least we got to post 62.

66 Nanook37  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:16:56pm

re: #39 RogueOne

You cannot cut a hose on the exterior of a building and have gas accumulate on the inside. As long as the tank is on there is always pressure in the hose, once there is a leak the only thing that happens (unless you light it) is the tank goes empty.

You are correct if the gas line is exposed it will vent to the atmosphere. If somehow the line is cut underground and the gas can’t vent to the surface easily it can travel along the piping and into the house. This isn’t very likely with propane but happens with natural gas lines occasionally. The video I attached is from a news chopper after a house exploded from a gas leak. More gas migrated into the neighbors house and the result is truly frightening Your text to link…

67 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:17:06pm

They see themselves as the heirs to the revolution I am noticing.

68 blueraven  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:18:08pm

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

I sad to say my prediction is that this won’t end till some one is dead. It will take blood to precipitate the needed crackdown. I really, really, hope I’m wrong. The Feds seriously need to land on this behavior with both feet.

Also the republican leaders need to come out and denounce this in no uncertain terms. If they are going to actively go after the votes from this group, they must assume some leadership.

69 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:18:09pm

re: #67 HappyWarrior

They see themselves as the heirs to the revolution I am noticing.


sally forth in ye rusty old pickup trucks ye sons of liberty, for today we commit random acts of minor vandalism!

70 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:18:39pm

This was to be expected when Obama started labeling right wingers as possible terrorists. Its his fault.

///

71 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:19:32pm

re: #63 LudwigVanQuixote

A note about healthcare reform… There has already been some change from the bill - for the positive.

One of my relatives needs seizure medication. They have been on this medication for over two years - and it is/was/is covered by the insurance.

The insurance company decided on a whim that they would no longer cover this medication. My father, an attorney, a good attorney, got on the phone with them and pointed out some of the language in the health care bill that prevents them from arbitrarily changing coverage.

He also mentioned the sorts of punitive damages that they are now potentially open for. The insurance company, now sees the error of its ways and is going back to covering the medication - which they had already approved and had been paying for for over two years.

That is actually change I can believe in.

72 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:20:11pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Feigel has posted YouTube videos advocating people to send “traitor” lawmakers ropes and stock up on guns and ammunition in case the political situation in this country gets too bad.

You know what this strikes me as? Possible self-fulfilling prophesy. These cretins either advocate violence or enable others to do so, and then in anticipation of their actions being thwarted by law enforcement, arm themselves. If the law comes to put a stop to the criminal behavior, they’ll cry wolf and scream oppression at the first chance. These are miserable, dishonest, deceitful, wilfully ignorant creeps. I really hope the FBI are taking these people seriously and not brushing it under the table as a simple matter of local law enforcement.

73 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:20:32pm

re: #62 9Iron

Does the left want to take ownership of all activities of the wackos of the extremes of their ideology? Protest Warrior has plenty of documentation in case the handiwork of Greenpeace, ELF, and all of those Bush is Hitler signs marching at the G-8 summits don’t ring a bell. I am conservative, have been at this site for a long time but don’t post much, but don’t claim whoever did this anymore than most fair minded liberals claim the destructive torching of Hummer dealerships by those ELF asshats. This guy, if caught, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Not all right wingers and tea partiers are nut jobs but many love to pile on when they are able to prop up a handful of examples of such. Just my $0.02.

The ELF firebugs were caught and prosecuted.

Greenpeace is non-violent.

Most of the radicals at the G-8 are anarchists…not liberals.

The Bush is Hitler signs were kind of dumb, in retrospect. At the time, I just thought they were a little over the top. But comparing anyone to Hitler is over the top.

Not all right wingers are nut-jobs, I agree. But those who control the message right now are (Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Malkin, Coulter, Ereksion, Bachmann, Boehner, McConnell, etc.)…and they influence these idiots.

74 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:20:44pm

re: #51 Killgore Trout

Interesting - thinkprogress. I like how they link to themselves so copiously. And the links are completely false.. for example, links saying things like “threaten gun violence” and the actual article it links to has nothing to do with guns or violence.

So you actually think that Republicans should come out and take responsibility for every supposed threat chronicled vaguely on a liberal wingnut website?

75 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:21:06pm

Are these guys nuts?

Holy crap, has this type of fruit loop always been around just looking for a venue (which was happily provided by the INet and some tea bags)?

76 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:22:22pm

re: #62 9Iron

Not all right wingers and tea partiers are nut jobs but many love to pile on when they of their leaders are able to prop up a handful of examples of such.

FTFY

77 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:22:29pm

re: #53 eclectic infidel

The Violent Consequences of Conservative Speech

There just isn’t this sort of reckless irresponsibility on the left — are radicals attacking churches, for example, or smashing the windows of Republican offices?

No they are not. When the anti-globalization leftists come to town, they smash shop windows and stone police.

/But yeah, that was then and this is now.

78 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:22:44pm

re: #61 SpaceJesus

conservatives really are living in their own dream world at this point

Sure, we invoke lynching imagery, threaten armed revolutoin, engage in militant rhetoric, and post thinly veiled threats about our political opponents, but we’re non-violent.

/

There are the people who would be passing popcorn at a witch burning or a guillotining.

79 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:24:03pm

re: #74 cliffster

Interesting - thinkprogress. I like how they link to themselves so copiously. And the links are completely false.. for example, links saying things like “threaten gun violence” and the actual article it links to has nothing to do with guns or violence.

So you actually think that Republicans should come out and take responsibility for every supposed threat chronicled vaguely on a liberal wingnut website?

Only 2 of 8 links go to think progress. Which link in particular do you feel is inaccurate?

80 kirkspencer  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:24:05pm

re: #57 blueraven

Agreed. See shoebomber and undiebomber for examples.

81 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:24:21pm

re: #77 The Sanity Inspector

And those people are in no way courted by mainstream leftist politicians in the US. That’s a very large difference.

82 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:24:37pm

Good news Ludwig.

83 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:24:51pm

re: #73 darthstar

Greenpeace is non-violent
(as one example), Ramming a ship on open seas is hardly “non violent”

Youtube Video

That stated, whoever cut this gas line should be locked away for many years to come

84 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:25:24pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Only 2 of 8 links go to think progress. Which link in particular do you feel is inaccurate?

Your link goes straight to thinkprogress.

85 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:25:33pm

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sure, we invoke lynching imagery, threaten armed revolutoin, engage in militant rhetoric, and post thinly veiled threats about our political opponents, but we’re non-violent.

/

There are the people who would be passing popcorn at a witch burning or a guillotining.

no they’re the ones who would be carrying the torches. They want bloodshed, they just don’t have the guts to actively fight.

86 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:27:02pm

re: #84 cliffster

Your link goes straight to thinkprogress.

Yes it certainly does. In that article there are 8 links. two of which go to think progress articles. You claim they are misrepresenting their sources but failed to provide an example.

87 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:27:04pm

re: #62 9Iron

I think it’s fair to say that overall, most lizards recognize the difference between the behavior of a minority compared to the greater whole.

88 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:27:10pm

re: #83 sattv4u2

Greenpeace is non-violent
(as one example), Ramming a ship on open seas is hardly “non violent”


[Video]That stated, whoever cut this gas line should be locked away for many years to come

Paul Watson broke from Greenpeace many years ago. Sea Shepherds is a separate and distinct organization. Darthstar’s point still stands.

89 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:27:43pm

re: #77 The Sanity Inspector

No they are not. When the anti-globalization leftists come to town, they smash shop windows and stone police.

/But yeah, that was then and this is now.

You’re conflating radicals who show up at protest marches with the one goal of creating a confrontation with police (the Anarchists, who wear bandanas over their faces and are NOT liberals, by the way…they’re just assholes looking for excitement) with people who are targeting elected officials and their families (under cover of darkness, mostly, as they don’t want to be seen).

Two entirely different creatures.

The first is an opportunist, feeding off the moment and looking to get on TV smashing windows and running from the police.

The second is pathological, wanting to do damage to send a message that elected officials shouldn’t vote a certain way—that’s terrorism.

90 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:27:50pm

re: #83 sattv4u2

um, that’s sea shepherd

91 Ericus58  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:28:15pm

re: #73 darthstar

The ELF firebugs were caught and prosecuted.

Greenpeace is non-violent.

Most of the radicals at the G-8 are anarchists…not liberals.

The Bush is Hitler signs were kind of dumb, in retrospect. At the time, I just thought they were a little over the top. But comparing anyone to Hitler is over the top.

Not all right wingers are nut-jobs, I agree. But those who control the message right now are (Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Malkin, Coulter, Ereksion, Bachmann, Boehner, McConnell, etc.)…and they influence these idiots.

I’m good with you except for the bolded part on ELF.
Having experienced a home being burned two blocks from mine and another rigged with explosive devices in another house with the gas turned on (and thankfully didn’t blow - hell, it wasn’t until a painted sheet was seen on the ground outside in the light of day that anyone thought something was amiss there) - those perps are still on the loose. There are other acts carried out in the Northwest that have gone without arrests either.
ELF is Domestic Terrorists - period.

As to these nutjobs, prosecute.

92 Tumulus11  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:28:31pm
85 Dark_Falcon
Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:25:33pm reply

‘They want bloodshed, they just don’t have the guts to actively fight.’

5 darthstar
Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:44:37am

‘This is Rep. Thomas Stuart Price Perriello’s home address,’ Coleman wrote Monday. ‘… I ain’t holding back anymore!!’


Coleman told The Daily Progress today that he is “shocked” and “almost speechless” at the possibility that someone would sever the propane line to Perriello’s brother’s house.’

Now that Coleman’s incitement has had its intended effect, he’s ‘shocked’ to find that gambling is going on in here.

93 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:28:32pm

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

no they’re the ones who would be carrying the torches. They want bloodshed, they just don’t have the guts to actively fight.

Note that I didn’t say organize the event. They would just rally around the crowd and slap themselves on the backs for being good boosters.

94 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:28:52pm

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

Paul Watson broke from Greenpeace many years ago. Sea Shepherds is a separate and distinct organization. Darthstar’s point still stands.

Then google Greenpeace Violence. Hope you have LOTS of time

95 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:29:11pm

re: #82 JoyousMN

Good news Ludwig.

Yes it really is. It’s good news for everyone.

From the start of this hullabloo, I have wondered why in G-d’s name any average American would fight to help insurance companies fuck them over.

The insurance industry exists by profiting off of your fear of suffering and cutting corners to your detriment if you actually are suffering and need them.

It’s a weird inversion of the old horror movies where the villagers go out with torches - only rather than hunting the vampire, they yell epithets at and threaten Van Helsing. WE DEMAND THE VAMPIRE HAS RIGHTS TO SUCK OUR BLOOD! How dare you socialists get in the way of the Count’s rights!

96 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:30:26pm

Tu quoque— it’s what’s for lunch.

97 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:30:34pm

re: #83 sattv4u2

Greenpeace is non-violent
(as one example), Ramming a ship on open seas is hardly “non violent”


[Video]That stated, whoever cut this gas line should be locked away for many years to come

Yep…that wasn’t a good example of non-violence… Usually, they just go out in zodiacs and try to keep the gunners from shooting whales. Or they unfurl a big banner off a bridge.

98 9Iron  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:30:41pm

65 Stanley Sea - What do you mean, that I’m a troll?
73 darthstar - I think I can discuss with you.

We probably agree that in any debate, the first to compare to Hitler loses the debate! I hate the Obama Hitler signs just as much as I hated the Bush Hitler signs. It’s an insult to my intelligence (as probably yours as well).

However, of the leaders that you list (Beck, Hannity, Rush, etc.) I don’t recall any of them urging their listeners to cut propane lines, call anyone racist names, break any laws, etc.

It is my opinion that focusing on the lowest common denominator of any political party (Racist rednecks on my end, ELF and hippy freeloaders on your end) puts the debate right in the mud. Reasonable people can disagree on weather government should control healthcare, but pointing to the extremes on either side does nothing to advance the debate.

99 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:30:48pm

re: #90 SpaceJesus

um, that’s sea shepherd

Skippered by Paul Watson who got his genesis of “activism” via GreenPeace

100 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:31:35pm

re: #91 Ericus58

I’m good with you except for the bolded part on ELF.
Having experienced a home being burned two blocks from mine and another rigged with explosive devices in another house with the gas turned on (and thankfully didn’t blow - hell, it wasn’t until a painted sheet was seen on the ground outside in the light of day that anyone thought something was amiss there) - those perps are still on the loose. There are other acts carried out in the Northwest that have gone without arrests either.
ELF is Domestic Terrorists - period.

As to these nutjobs, prosecute.

Agreed. They are domestic terrorists. I thought they caught the Hummer burners though.

101 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:31:52pm

re: #97 darthstar

Yep…that wasn’t a good example of non-violence… Usually, they just go out in zodiacs and try to keep the gunners from shooting whales. Or they unfurl a big banner off a bridge.

Or toss substances on the deck of the “offending” vessel to sicken the crewmembers

Swell guys!

102 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:33:16pm

re: #29 RogueOne

It should be. Before we all blow our tops over this all a “cut” propane line gets you is an empty tank. The only way it would have exploded is if whatever asshat cut it was smoking a cigarette while they did it.

We’ll have to let anybody who has had their house, or garage, or camper, or tent, or hotel that has gone up in flames that it was just incidental they had a leaking propane tank.

We can also assure the emergency people there is no need to evacuate homes in the area when a tanker or train car full of propane overturns, unless there are smokers in the area.

I’m also sure the fruit loop who cut the line was just trying to empty the tank.

103 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:33:18pm

re: #99 sattv4u2

Skippered by Paul Watson who got his genesis of “activism” via GreenPeace

he has nothing to do with them

104 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:33:37pm

re: #98 9Iron

Reasonable people can disagree on weather [sic] government should control healthcare, but pointing to the extremes on either side does nothing to advance the debate.

I think what we’re doing here is not intended to “advance the debate”, but rather to “point to the extremes on either side”. It just so happens that there are no lefties calling for violence over the healthcare issue.

105 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:33:48pm

re: #95 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes it really is. It’s good news for everyone.

From the start of this hullabloo, I have wondered why in G-d’s name any average American would fight to help insurance companies fuck them over.

The insurance industry exists by profiting off of your fear of suffering and cutting corners to your detriment if you actually are suffering and need them.

It’s a weird inversion of the old horror movies where the villagers go out with torches - only rather than hunting the vampire, they yell epithets at and threaten Van Helsing. WE DEMAND THE VAMPIRE HAS RIGHTS TO SUCK OUR BLOOD! How dare you socialists get in the way of the Count’s rights!

Haha that would be a weird ass horror movie. Some of these people I understand their pov but it just goes way over the top when you see some of the signs I’ve seen like comparing Obama to Mao. I mean you don’t have to like Obama to know that’s ridiculous. Same thing with Bush as Hitler.

106 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:34:00pm

re: #86 Killgore Trout

Yes it certainly does. In that article there are 8 links. two of which go to think progress articles. You claim they are misrepresenting their sources but failed to provide an example.

Several of the first links are to other thinkprogress articles, those are the ones I clicked on. And from there, they are mostly self-linking, and the text of the links are very misleading. I would throw away everything you read on that website because it’s all liberal spin.

But there are also links to local websites. Let me put it to you another way. There is no way that it is a good idea for Republican leaders to fall over themselves to take ownership of these incidents, and that’s exactly what they would be doing if they were to use the verbiage you’d like for them to do. They should condemn them, but in the same sense that Democrats should condemn them.

107 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:34:23pm

re: #98 9Iron

Hey, don’t go disparaging hippy freeloaders. You’re talking about my friends. And the worst thing they’ll do is camp out on your property for a couple of weeks between festivals.

108 sagehen  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:34:26pm

re: #68 blueraven

Also the republican leaders need to come out and denounce this in no uncertain terms. If they are going to actively go after the votes from this group, they must assume some leadership.

Don’t be silly, they’ll explain in detail why this is Obama’s fault.

I mean really — first he has the unmitigated gall to run a winning campaign and collect 70 million votes. The nerve! And now there he is, devoting all kinds of time and effort to pursing the policies he campaigned on, passing a bill that a full 40 senators opposed. And now trying to extend that bill, in ways that 45 (45! count them! 45! senators representing almost 40% of the population!) are probably going to vote against.

Unbelievable.

And he has the godawful nerve to continue existing. How dare he!

//

109 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:34:45pm

re: #101 sattv4u2

Or toss substances on the deck of the “offending” vessel to sicken the crewmembers

Swell guys!

As I recall, the buteric acid in question is intended to spoil the whale meat and prevent it from being sold. I actually don’t have much of a problem with Sea Shepherds going after Japan’s whalers. Japan’s fishing practices are abominable and I see nasty but non-lethal tactics as appropriate in that case.

110 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:34:55pm

re: #103 SpaceJesus

he has nothing to do with them

And the republican party has nothing to do with far right wing nutzoes, yet here they sit saddled with them!

111 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:35:08pm

re: #57 blueraven

Incompetence doesnt make it not a terrorist act. I think we have seen plenty of that.

We don’t know any intent nor am I claiming this is all an innocent mistake or sheer incompetence. We don’t know anything about this really other than a propane line was cut and the FBI is taking it seriously, as they should. My only point is you can’t make a propane tank explode by cutting the line unless the gas has a place to build up inside something. You can’t even make a tank explode by cutting the line and setting fire to it, they have blowback devices on them. The only way I’ve been able to get one to explode is by tossing it on a fire for awhile and shooting it with a rifle.

112 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:35:09pm

Breakthrough Low-Power Desalination and Purification Technology Brings Clean Water To Remote Villages

High costs, in money and energy, limit the usefulness of desalination as a way to provide drinkable water in disaster areas. However, a new method could lead to portable desalination devices simple enough to run off solar power or a battery, but powerful enough to supply a family, or even a small village, with clean water. Additionally, the new desalination device also cleanses water of biological contaminants.

Developed by scientists at MIT, the desalination device is about the size of a postage stamp, and can be fit together into larger daisy chains. An eight-inch-wide array of the desalination chips can produce four gallons of clean water every hour, while only using as much electricity as a light bulb. Plus, when tested with water mixed with plastic bits, human blood, and miscellaneous proteins in addition to salt, the unit pumped out 99-percent-pure water.

The desalination chips separate water from contaminants by repelling the foreign particles electrically. Since this method does not use filter, the system can operate without high pressures. Simply pour the contaminated or sea water in the top, and wait for the pure water to come out of the bottom.

113 Soap_Man  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:35:26pm

re: #95 LudwigVanQuixote

Many of those opposed to the bill did so due to the overall cost, not the provisions. Most of them are good ideas and most people recognize that.

(Note: I’m just offering the opinion of many I know. After much thought, I ended up giving the bill my cautious support)

114 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:36:26pm

re: #110 sattv4u2

And the republican party has nothing to do with far right wing nutzoes, yet here they sit saddled with them!

yeah, republicans have nothing to do with the tea parties whatsoever

115 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:36:36pm

re: #98 9Iron

Rush himself is racist quite regularly, and race-baits like its going out of style.

116 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:37:06pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

As I recall, the buteric acid in question is intended to spoil the whale meat and prevent it from being sold. I actually don’t have much of a problem with Sea Shepherds going after Japan’s whalers. Japan’s fishing practices are abominable and I see nasty but non-lethal tactics as appropriate in that case.

WHEN and IF A Japanese whaling vessel is caught in protected waters they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law ,,BY the law

Not rammed by some yahoo group

117 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:37:54pm

re: #114 SpaceJesus

yeah, republicans have nothing to do with the tea parties whatsoever

And democrats have nothing to do with the far left wing groups

Thanks , glad we can agree on this!

118 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:38:08pm

re: #110 sattv4u2

And the republican party has nothing to do with far right wing nutzoes, yet here they sit saddled with them!

Unfortunately, that’s not really true. There is a lot of stuff on the Republican website representing what I would call “far right wing nutsoes” (isolationism, “end the Fed” etc.). They refuse to distance themselves from far right wing nutsoes. Look at J.D. Hayworth in AZ.

119 Ericus58  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:38:56pm

re: #107 darthstar

Hey, don’t go disparaging hippy freeloaders. You’re talking about my friends. And the worst thing they’ll do is camp out on your property for a couple of weeks between festivals.

that’s why I like ya - just stop knockin’ on the backdoor for grilled cheese sandwiches is all I ask ;)

120 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:39:12pm

Ummm for the love of G-d.

No one is denying the existence of left wing freakazoids or that some of them are dangerous and violent.

However, it gets old, really old, to hear them dragged out of the boogy man cellar every single time a right wing freakazoid gets brought up.

First off, even if the far left nuts were a fraction as organized, violent or broadly supported as the right wing nuts are, it would not excuse the actions of the wingnuts. The existence of Charles Manson (Left wing freak) does not mitigate the crimes of Timothy McVeigh (right wing freak, who killed many more people). If a man has his leg broken, the existence of someone else’s broken arm does not mitigate the pain he feels or help knit his bones.

It is utterly stupid to bring up. At best it is like crying mommy, but he got to steal a cookie, why can’t I?

But beyond this, let’s get real.

There are leftwing freaks. No two ways. However, there are nut enough of them to make a tea party. They do not have a major national party (the GOP) feeding them red meat, and they do not have Fox, Rush, Hannity, Beck, Coulter, Malkin, The Harpy, RSM, etc… constantly whipping them into a lather. They do not in general own guns or talk of secession. They do not believe that Jesus wants them to retake America from socialists and brown people.

So even if somehow, the existence of one bad thing could mitigate the effects of another bad thing, it is still stupid to bring up, because the right is far far worse.

121 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:39:28pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

As I recall, the buteric acid in question is intended to spoil the whale meat and prevent it from being sold. I actually don’t have much of a problem with Sea Shepherds going after Japan’s whalers. Japan’s fishing practices are abominable and I see nasty but non-lethal tactics as appropriate in that case.

You have to cut the Japanese some slack - they’re just trying to get revenge on the whales and dolphins for Hiroshima.

122 blueraven  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:39:47pm

re: #110 sattv4u2

And the republican party has nothing to do with far right wing nutzoes, yet here they sit saddled with them!

That is just not true. Look at the rallies last weekend in Washington. Michelle Bachmann, King, Boener and more were actively involved. They are courting these people as they carry their racist and violent signs. You cant have it both ways.

123 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:41:00pm

re: #110 sattv4u2

And the republican party has nothing to do with far right wing nutzoes, yet here they sit saddled with them!

Baby Killer!

Youtube Video

124 9Iron  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:41:30pm

104 wrenchwench
Of course the left isn’t up in arms about healthcare, they won the day! But they didn’t always agree with the direction of the country:

en.wikipedia.org

Image: auntjemima_1.jpg

I’m just saying, there are wackos on both sides! I just want to jump in from time to time when, it appears to me anyway, that an entire ideology is being identified by the fringe.

And darthstar, I LOVE hippies, they are a great group to hang out with. I just don’t want them making policy for me and my family!

125 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:41:36pm

re: #118 wrenchwench

Unfortunately, that’s not really true. There is a lot of stuff on the Republican website representing what I would call “far right wing nutsoes” (isolationism, “end the Fed” etc.). They refuse to distance themselves from far right wing nutsoes. Look at J.D. Hayworth in AZ.

And thank God for years the dems distanced themselves from the Cynthia McKinneys of the world
oh , wait ,,, shit!

I’m not denying that there are far right wing nuts ,, NOR that the repubs nudge nudge // wink wink at some of their ideas. But to say it’s all on one side is to be blinded by ideology

126 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:41:38pm

re: #119 Ericus58

that’s why I like ya - just stop knockin’ on the backdoor for grilled cheese sandwiches is all I ask ;)

Most of the ‘hippies’ you see anymore are Trustafarians from the east coast who come out to California to smoke all our dope and hang out for a few months before going back to college.

But damn, they make a good burrito…and after four hours of dancing to live music, there’s nothing like a veggie burrito on the way back to the car.

127 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:42:10pm

re: #121 Mad Al-Jaffee

You have to cut the Japanese some slack - they’re just trying to get revenge on the whales and dolphins for Hiroshima.

Naw, the Japanese are just doing what they say they’re doing: catching whales for research. They’re researching if the whales taste as good this year as last year.

128 SixDegrees  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:42:30pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

As I recall, the buteric acid in question is intended to spoil the whale meat and prevent it from being sold. I actually don’t have much of a problem with Sea Shepherds going after Japan’s whalers. Japan’s fishing practices are abominable and I see nasty but non-lethal tactics as appropriate in that case.

I have to disagree. The tactics used are illegal and inflammatory. They serve no useful purpose if the goal is to stop Japan’s questionable whaling practices. If anything, they very likely strengthen Japan’s resolve to continue whaling.

Two wrongs, as the saying goes, don’t make a right. There are plenty of legitimate actions and avenues that can be taken to curtail whaling. Stooping to vandalism and buffoonery are hardly effective.

129 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:42:33pm

James Cameron goes Beck-baiting:

How’s this for a cage match? The King of the World vs. the King of Fox Noise.

At a press conference Tuesday in Los Angeles hyping the upcoming DVD release of Avatar, James Cameron laid into Fox News demagogue host Glenn Beck.

Let’s just say Cameron isn’t a fan.

“Glenn Beck is a f—king asshole. I’ve met him. He called me the Antichrist, and not about Avatar,” Cameron said. “He hadn’t even seen Avatar yet. I don’t know if he has seen it.”

Full article is here.

130 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:42:33pm

re: #123 goddamnedfrank

Baby Killer!

[Video]

google Cynthia McKinney/ George Bush

131 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:43:24pm

re: #122 blueraven

That is just not true. Look at the rallies last weekend in Washington. Michelle Bachmann, King, Boener and more were actively involved. They are courting these people as they carry their racist and violent signs. You cant have it both ways.


yeah, but didn’t you hear? high profile elected democrat politicians make big appearances every time code pink holds a rally!

oh wait..

132 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:43:24pm

re: #127 The Sanity Inspector

Naw, the Japanese are just doing what they say they’re doing: catching whales for research. They’re researching if the whales taste as good this year as last year.

Important to have long term trending data.

133 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:43:57pm

re: #115 Obdicut

Rush himself is racist quite regularly, and race-baits like its going out of style.

And Beck just doesn’t bandy around with silly racists names or smarmy baiting, he just goes right with out guns a blazing baiting. Like calling the President a racist who hates white culture.

Nah, nothing there folks….

134 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:44:24pm

re: #110 sattv4u2

And the republican party has nothing to do with far right wing nutzoes, yet here they sit saddled with them!

It’s really important to liberals to keep the conversation away from the issues, because their lies and talking points are pretty flimsy. That’s why really all you hear is a steady stream of accusations against the right-wing. Every incident is exaggerated and plastered everywhere. Giant efforts are made to link GOP members to anything and everything evil. When your own agenda sucks, you spend all your time trying to trash the opponent.

135 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:44:44pm

re: #130 sattv4u2

google Cynthia McKinney/ George Bush

Amusing, own up to the present and stop living in the past.

136 theheat  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:46:18pm

re: #134 cliffster

You mean like this?

137 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:46:37pm

re: #134 cliffster

What the fuck, dude. That’s so silly to say in the context of bricks being thrown through the windows of representatives and all the rest of it.

Seriously, take a look at your first sentence and your last sentence.

It’s really important to liberals to keep the conversation away from the issues, because their lies and talking points are pretty flimsy.

When your own agenda sucks, you spend all your time trying to trash the opponent.


The ‘issue’ at hand is that someone recklessly posted the home address of someone (the wrong someone) and an actual crime was committed against that person, by someone who wished them ill.

That you have the temerity to say that ‘liberals’ are trying to keep the conversation away from the issues is just baffling to me.

138 9Iron  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:46:55pm

135 goddamnedfrank

Amusing, own up to the present and stop living in the past.

This is the present, but how about the future when there is another GOP president? Are you willing to say all of the discourse from the left will be civil?

139 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:46:57pm

re: #135 goddamnedfrank

Amusing, own up to the present and stop living in the past.

Go back and read SEVERAL TIMES where I said the action (present) is reprhensable

But nice try

140 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:47:01pm

I mentioned that I feared that the wingnuttery was just getting into gear now that healcare has passed, and recent events and reports seem to confirm this.

To paraphrase Glenn Beck, i wish I were wrong about this bt I am right…

141 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:47:49pm

re: #124 9Iron

re: #125 sattv4u2

See number 96.

142 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:48:16pm

re: #138 9Iron


This is the present, but how about the future

That’s my favorite defensive quote so far.

143 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:48:23pm

re: #124 9Iron

Death of a President was a British mockumentary…it didn’t advocate killing Bush.

By means of actors, archival film footage and computer-generated special effects, the assassination is the thematic beginning of serious discussions about civil disobedience, racial profiling, the U.S. Government’s reduction of civil liberties, news sensationalism as agitational propaganda and the theory of Just War.

The “Aunt Jemima” Michelle Obama pic is racism, pure and simple. As was the Michelle/Chimpanzee comparison (which, sadly, my Republican parents thought was funny enough to email around).

Hippies don’t make policy. In fact, there isn’t a hippy in congress. The health care bill is almost exactly what Republican Bob Dole proposed years ago…it’s THAT moderate.

And finally, “the left has wackos too” isn’t an argument, it’s a defense of the Teabaggers’ racist and illegal behavior by distraction.

144 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:48:29pm

re: #135 goddamnedfrank

Amusing, own up to the present and stop living in the past.

AND ,,, you (plural) make it out to be this IS something new and shocking

It HAS happened in the past and WILL happen in the future,, from BOTH sides

145 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:48:29pm

re: #123 goddamnedfrank

Baby Killer!


[Video]

Yep, the formerly invisible (at least to his constituents) Neugebauer has been getting a lot of mileage out of his baby-killer remark. (Check out the comments)

146 Soap_Man  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:48:46pm

re: #134 cliffster

When your own agenda sucks, you spend all your time trying to trash the opponent.

That’s a two-way street. A very, very, very busy two-way street.

147 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:48:58pm

re: #125 sattv4u2

But to say it’s all on one side is to be blinded by ideology

Who said it was all on one side?

148 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:49:25pm

re: #147 wrenchwench

Who said it was all on one side?


the voices in his head

149 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:49:37pm

Philosophy triumphs over past evils and future evils, but present evils triumph over it.
— François, duc de la Rochefoucauld

150 SixDegrees  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:49:55pm
151 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:50:43pm

I’m going to have some tu quoque with peanut butter.

bbl

152 9Iron  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:50:55pm

142 Obdicut

Yea, it’s easy to cut a sentence off in mid quote. So I’ll say again, when a republican president is in office, are you prepared to say all discourse will be civil?

153 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:52:07pm

re: #137 Obdicut

Liberal bloggers and pundits piss their pants every time something like this happens. I would like to think that it is out of concern for the pick with broken windows, but it’s not. You can pretend that the liberals try and stay focussed on the issues, but the fact is that it is all anti-GOP, all the time.

154 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:52:36pm

Ahh…John “Get off my lawn!” McCain is now ranting senselessly on the Senate floor. He’s playing out a script with Judd Gregg.

McCain “This is going to cost Ten Billion dollars to enforce?”
Gregg “Well, you’re going to need one IRS agent for every person who doesn’t have insurance.”

Give me a fuckin’ break. McCain’s already losing it trying to role play as someone who actually gives a shit about what he’s saying.

155 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:52:51pm

re: #139 sattv4u2

Go back and read SEVERAL TIMES where I said the action (present) is reprhensable

But nice try

Don’t forget the part where you said:

And the republican party has nothing to do with far right wing nutzoes, yet here they sit saddled with them!

Yes, they’re saddled with them because they ARE them:

Additionally, the Capitol Hill newspaper notes that “Rep. Earl Pomeroy (D-ND) said he had to change his personal cell phone number after a Republican gave it out to health care opponents.” The chairman of the North Dakota Republican Party read Pomeroy’s cell phone number aloud on the stage of the North Dakota Republican convention.

156 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:52:54pm
The FBI is investigating a cut propane gas line at the home of the brother of pro-health bill Rep. Tom Perriello’s

FTFY, Charles.

157 9Iron  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:53:25pm

143 darthstar

You might be right about it being a distraction. I think we are in agreement that there are nutjobs on both sides. If not, let me know. That was all I was saying to begin with.

158 Soap_Man  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:53:36pm

re: #152 9Iron

Yea, it’s easy to cut a sentence off in mid quote. So I’ll say again, when a republican president is in office, are you prepared to say all discourse will be civil?

Of course all discourse won’t be civil. It never is. But it doesn’t excuse the incident that is the subject of this thread. “The other guy does it too/Hey! Hey! Look over there!” is weak sauce, to quote another Lizard.

159 SixDegrees  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:53:46pm
160 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:53:47pm

re: #152 9Iron

I’m not sure if you’re intentionally missing the point or not.

I’m not prepared to say much of anything about the future that’s not backed by firm scientific discourse.

I really don’t actually need to think about how putative leftists would act in the future, either. I’m not claiming— nor is anyone (other than JS, maybe) that conservatism itself inspires violence. What is being said is that this current situation is bad, dangerous, and being purposefully inflamed by people on the right, including elected officials and members of the media.

161 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:54:15pm

re: #152 9Iron

142 Obdicut

Yea, it’s easy to cut a sentence off in mid quote. So I’ll say again, when a republican president is in office, are you prepared to say all discourse will be civil?

Check back in six years, and we’ll see. Or ten years, possibly. If President Obama is as successful with his remaining legislative agenda as he was with HCR, it’ll be a long time before someone can convince Americans that peace and prosperity are a bad thing.

162 ShaunP  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:54:23pm

re: #153 cliffster

Liberal bloggers and pundits piss their pants every time something like this happens. I would like to think that it is out of concern for the pick with broken windows, but it’s not. You can pretend that the liberals try and stay focussed on the issues, but the fact is that it is all anti-GOP, all the time.

Liberal vs. conservative spin is certain from both sides. However, the current actions (actions, as in multiple) are concerted efforts to sway the political process through vandalism and aggression. I don’t care what side you are on; that is unacceptable…

163 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:54:26pm

re: #158 Soap_Man

Of course all discourse won’t be civil. It never is. But it doesn’t excuse the incident that is the subject of this thread. “The other guy does it too/Hey! Hey! Look over there!” is weak sauce, to quote another Lizard.

Well put, Soap. And now I have to log off. I’ve got to go to an interview. BBT

164 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:55:34pm

I think we can agree that, in a nation of 300 million, there’s always going to be a nutter up to some nuttiness somewhere. The question is: Is this a trend, and if so, who is inpiring/profiting from it?

165 Soap_Man  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:55:40pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

Well put, Soap. And now I have to log off. I’ve got to go to an interview. BBT

Good luck!! Let us know how it went.

166 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:55:41pm

re: #153 cliffster

Liberal bloggers and pundits piss their pants every time something like this happens

You might want to take a break, dude.

167 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:56:05pm

re: #83 sattv4u2

Greenpeace is non-violent
(as one example), Ramming a ship on open seas is hardly “non violent”


[Video]That stated, whoever cut this gas line should be locked away for many years to come

Sea Shephard isn’t Greenpeace.

The attack on Perriello (or his brother) was a personal attack.

168 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:58:28pm

re: #162 ShaunP

Liberal vs. conservative spin is certain from both sides. However, the current actions (actions, as in multiple) are concerted efforts to sway the political process through vandalism and aggression. I don’t care what side you are on; that is unacceptable…

100% agreed. And the enormous effort to make it seem like the GOP leadership is close to this stuff is pretty slimy. As if John Boehner was making phone calls in the middle of the night. Bricks.. tell them to throw bricks.

169 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:59:32pm

re: #160 Obdicut

Yes. This is how I feel exactly. I will cop to there are bad lefties out there, but to try and equate what is going on now, with Fox News and Rush, and the leadership in the Republican party cheering it on, with Greenpeace is just disingenuous.

170 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 12:59:44pm

I’m going to have to disagree with the sentiment that only the right wing has vandals. We just went through 8 years of attacks on recruiting stations(including a shooting), attacks on members of the military out in public, a rash of vandalism against the Mormons after the prop 8 vote, republican political offices vandalized on a regular basis, and people picketing the homes of elected officials, banking officers, and even Ken Starr. We had our last president called every name in the book from asshole, baby killer/blood sucker to zionist tool. Vandals and wacko’s are a part of our lives. It’s been going on for 200 years and it will continue for the next 200.

None of this kind of behavior is new and none of it should be tolerated but when you come out and say one side is worse than the other you’re letting your partisanship show.

171 SpaceJesus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:00:56pm

re: #170 RogueOne


nobody is saying that

172 9Iron  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:01:13pm

160 Obdicut

I think I actually agree with you. The level of disagreement in this country is ugly, maybe borderline dangerous, but I’m just making the point that it didn’t begin with the election of Barack Obama. It’s been divisive for quite some time. I just don’t want anyone here to think that it just began with the ascendancy of liberals into power, it was fucking ugly when the shoe was on the other foot too.

That’s it, I’m out. Nice chatting with you all again!

173 blueraven  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:01:58pm

re: #159 SixDegrees

…or here…

You are trying to equate things that are not the same at all. These protestors were not led by leaders of the democratic party. There were also protests and arrests at the democratic convention.

The republican party is actively courting the tea party crowd. They are leading rallies and making speeches to them on the capital steps. The RNC chairman is meeting with them and praising them. Sarah Palin was the keynote speaker at their convention.

When you can show me that level of involvement by the democratic party, you may have a point. Until then, you do not.

174 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:02:00pm

re: #166 Obdicut

You might want to take a break, dude.

Why? I like that thinkprogress was linked earlier. Go there and see the delight at people being vandalized, etc.

175 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:02:49pm

re: #171 SpaceJesus

nobody is saying that

You need to re-read through the thread. If the shoe doesn’t fit then I probably wasn’t talking about you.

176 ShaunP  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:02:51pm

re: #168 cliffster

100% agreed. And the enormous effort to make it seem like the GOP leadership is close to this stuff is pretty slimy. As if John Boehner was making phone calls in the middle of the night. Bricks.. tell them to throw bricks.

I actually feel like Boehner was quite sincere when he asked his peers to act like adults…

177 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:02:51pm

re: #172 9Iron

I’ll go there with you. I know there was a lot of anger on the left during the Bush admin. And our country has been divided left/right for much longer than that.

178 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:03:07pm

re: #170 RogueOne

I’m going to have to disagree with the sentiment that only the right wing has vandals.

I do not see that sentiment expressed here anywhere. I only see defensiveness in case someone was thinking that.

when you come out and say one side is worse than the other you’re letting your partisanship show.

Who said that?

179 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:03:41pm

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

no they’re the ones who would be carrying the torches. They want bloodshed, they just don’t have the guts to actively fight.

It takes guts to fight?

Maybe, since fighting is one of the ‘fight or flight’ gut reactions, but it doesn’t take intelligence and courage. It’s not brave to start throwing fists (figuratively or not), its just a dumbass reaction. It takes courage to step back, think about what you are doing, rationally consider the consequences and then act.

From what I can see, the right always comes out swinging, consequences be damned.

180 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:03:50pm

re: #170 RogueOne

Again:

There is nothing inherent in conservatism or liberalism that drives to violence. That does not mean that, at any given moment, the incarnation of the ‘left’ or ‘right’ isn’t actually worse.

Right now, the ‘right’ is behaving worse. After the 2004 election, the left was definitely acting ‘worse’. However, the current climate, by any measure— as the ADL, the SPLC, and the justice department can tell us— is more volatile, and worse. And the amount of support from the GOP representatives and leadership is feeding the problem.

181 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:05:17pm

re: #176 ShaunP

I actually feel like Boehner was quite sincere when he asked his peers to act like adults…

Of course he was. And that just spoils everyone’s fun ;)

182 palomino  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:05:27pm

Sure, the left has just as many wackjobs as the right. But the left’s nuts aren’t currently packing heat, threatening violent revolution, or attacking Congress members’ homes and offices.

Maybe this will all end with relatively nonviolent activities like a cut gas line. But I wouldn’t bet on it. Would you?

183 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:06:15pm

re: #176 ShaunP

Howver, Boehner has also embraced the Tea Party activists wholeheartedly on a number of occasions.

The Tea Party movement has reminded us who’s really in charge of this country, and that’s the American people,” Boehner said in a statement. “These great patriots have been at the forefront of a growing political rebellion born from the American people’s opposition to greater government control over our economy and our lives.”

Boehner said, “It’s not enough, however, for Republicans to simply voice respect for what the tea partiers are doing, praise their efforts, and participate in their rallies. Republicans must listen to them, stand with them, and walk among them.”

184 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:06:25pm

re: #180 Obdicut

answered your good question on the other thread downstairs.

185 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:07:16pm

re: #180 Obdicut

…..Right now, the ‘right’ is behaving worse. After the 2004 election, the left was definitely acting ‘worse’. However, the current climate, by any measure— as the ADL, the SPLC, and the justice department can tell us— is more volatile, and worse. And the amount of support from the GOP representatives and leadership is feeding the problem.

That first part I’ll give you, you’re right that currently the right is behaving worse. It’s always the side out of power that acts like assholes. What I won’t give you is when you toss in the SPLC. To me their about as reputable as the NRA and I don’t take either of those groups at their word. They’re lobbying groups out to gin up as much fear and concern as they can to keep the money flowing.

186 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:08:48pm

re: #185 RogueOne

Whatever, dude. The SPLC is an enormously respected institution. Accusing them of what you have, ignoring the enormous amount of good they’ve done for the civil rights situation in this country, that’s shitty of you.

187 SixDegrees  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:09:12pm

re: #173 blueraven

You are trying to equate things that are not the same at all. These protestors were not led by leaders of the democratic party. There were also protests and arrests at the democratic convention.

The republican party is actively courting the tea party crowd. They are leading rallies and making speeches to them on the capital steps. The RNC chairman is meeting with them and praising them. Sarah Palin was the keynote speaker at their convention.

When you can show me that level of involvement by the democratic party, you may have a point. Until then, you do not.

There are plenty of comments upthread that have nothing to do with such specifics.

And of course, there was that Al Franken incident when he attacked and physically carried a LaRouche supporter out of a meeting. Or the mock “trials” held in the COB by John Conyers, “charging” Bush with war crimes.

Of course, on the latter note, it’s only fair to point out that just last Sunday, Cindy Sheehan was once again in DC, this time demanding that the current President be physically tossed out of the White House over ongoing operations in Afghanistan. So maybe those balance each other out.

Frankly, I find it amusing that so much effort is being expended trying to deny precise equivalence. Of course there aren’t any examples of identical incidents - the incidents are separate to begin with. But trying to don the halo of innocence in this manner is laughable.

I assume you can use Google. There’s no shortage of vile bullshit that’s been committed by either side. “Oh, but their’s is way worse!” is childish and lame. Clean your own house, or at least acknowledge that it’s just as filthy as they one across the street.

188 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:10:34pm

re: #186 Obdicut

Whatever, dude. The SPLC is an enormously respected institution. Accusing them of what you have, ignoring the enormous amount of good they’ve done for the civil rights situation in this country, that’s shitty of you.

WAS an enormously respected institution. Now they’re about the dollars. When they decide something with a libertarian taste to it might not be a hate meeting then I’ll reconsider my opinion.

189 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:10:56pm

re: #176 ShaunP

I actually feel like Boehner was quite sincere when he asked his peers to act like adults…

That was only for the duration of the debate and vote in the house. As ‘baby killer’ Naugebauer proved, it fell on deaf ears.

190 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:10:58pm

re: #99 sattv4u2

Skippered by Paul Watson who got his genesis of “activism” via GreenPeace

Guilt by association.

Brilliant.

191 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:12:25pm

re: #187 SixDegrees


Clean your own house, or at least acknowledge that it’s just as filthy as they one across the street.

And remember - those are the ONLY two options. Fix yourself and/or declare equivalency. There will be NO contrasts drawn between the two extremes. They’re totally the same - by fiat.

192 Interesting Times  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:12:40pm

re: #183 Obdicut

Ah yes, Boehner. Such an innocent angel, not fanning the flames at all:

The backlash: Reform turns personal


Driehaus faults Republicans for providing encouragement to the most extreme opponents of reform. Last week, House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) warned that anti-abortion Democrats would suffer politically if they voted for the health care bill; he singled out Driehaus, saying he “may be a dead man” and “can’t go home to the west side of Cincinnati” because “the Catholics will run him out of town.”
193 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:12:44pm

re: #188 RogueOne

They still are an enormously respected institution. You don’t respect them. That does not change the actual amount of respect they have.

I have very great difficult treating your concern for civil liberties seriously after you said that national security issues mean that you’ll vote for a social conservative over a Democrat every time.

194 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:13:09pm

re: #183 Obdicut

Howver, Boehner has also embraced the Tea Party activists wholeheartedly on a number of occasions.

And to come out after every incident that the left latches onto and spins into a tornado, is basically buying into the narrative that liberals sell about the Tea Party. I know that a lot of people want Republican leadership and say, “Hey, the Tea Party is made up of a bunch of crazy-ass idiots that want to blow stuff up, and - well, stop”. But that would not make good sense. They’d rather focus on the vast majority of TP folks who want low spending and low taxes. And the fact that rogue TP folks dominates so much of what comes out of the left instead of actual issues - well the GOP thinks that speaks for itself.

195 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:13:33pm

re: #182 palomino

Sure, the left has just as many wackjobs as the right. But the left’s nuts aren’t currently packing heat, threatening violent revolution, or attacking Congress members’ homes and offices.

Maybe this will all end with relatively nonviolent activities like a cut gas line. But I wouldn’t bet on it. Would you?

*sigh* this may be a long hot summer this year…

196 webevintage  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:13:45pm

So it seems that day 2 of the Great 2010 Republican Temper Tantrum™ went well:
thinkprogress.org


and it does not matter if the cut line could or could not do damage (and I bet they are just lucky whoever did it was a moran™ does not mitigate the fact that someone cut the line after Troxel posted the address online.

197 Firstinla  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:14:37pm

Regardless of who perpetrates it, every person in a position of leadership needs to stand tall and condemn, in very clear terms, any and every act of violence. We can spend the rest of time pointing fingers to the left and to the right and achieve nothing. Democrat and Republican leaders need the resolve to do what ever is necessary to end this kind of intimidation.

198 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:17:13pm

re: #194 cliffster

So Boehner’s statements above about someone being a ‘dead man’— that’s just concern for his well-being?

The irony of you painting ‘liberals’ with such a huge broad brush while simultaneously objecting to people reacting with alarm to actual incidents occurring stemming from people in the Tea Parties— that’s gotta be apparent to you, right?

199 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:17:57pm

re: #194 cliffster

The utterly hypocritical tea party activists -the left is absolutely dripping about them -not because of the extremism, but because of the fact they only just figured out the state of the nations finances after being asleep at the voting switch for 8 years.

They woke up when a tax and spend democrat did exactly what his predecessor did……………..

200 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:19:53pm

re: #62 9Iron

“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”

You don’t see the pattern emerging?

201 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:20:08pm

re: #106 cliffster

Several of the first links are to other thinkprogress articles, those are the ones I clicked on. And from there, they are mostly self-linking, and the text of the links are very misleading. I would throw away everything you read on that website because it’s all liberal spin.

But there are also links to local websites. Let me put it to you another way. There is no way that it is a good idea for Republican leaders to fall over themselves to take ownership of these incidents, and that’s exactly what they would be doing if they were to use the verbiage you’d like for them to do. They should condemn them, but in the same sense that Democrats should condemn them.

I just went over there. In the first two articles there were, at a quick count, 16 links. Of those 16, 4 were to previous ThinkProgress articles. Of the four, I went to the first linked to article and found it had 10 links of its own, none of which linked back to ThinkProgress. I didn’t check the other three, because I have better things to do than chase your boogie men, but I suspect, if you took the time to really research, all of the TP articles use many more outside links than their own links. Their links may be recursive but when they eventually pop off the stack, the information comes from outside sources.

Think about it.

202 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:20:11pm

Vitter’s submitting his amendment to the HCR reconciliation which will repeal the entire bill. Good luck with that, Diaper-man.

Fortunately, Al Franken is now chairing the debate, so this discussion could get interesting.

203 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:21:55pm

re: #198 Obdicut

So Boehner’s statements above about someone being a ‘dead man’— that’s just concern for his well-being?

The irony of you painting ‘liberals’ with such a huge broad brush while simultaneously objecting to people reacting with alarm to actual incidents occurring stemming from people in the Tea Parties— that’s gotta be apparent to you, right?

Are you saying that Boehner is advocating the person being murdered by using the expression, “dead man”?

You can say it’s ironic if you like. I’m no fan of people acting this way. But I do very much think that liberals, pundits and politicians alike, would much rather talk about stuff like this than actual issues. There’s a reason for that.

204 Lidane  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:22:04pm

re: #164 The Sanity Inspector

I think we can agree that, in a nation of 300 million, there’s always going to be a nutter up to some nuttiness somewhere. The question is: Is this a trend, and if so, who is inpiring/profiting from it?

Another question to ask is where it all ends. Does it end with a severed gas line at the house of a congressman’s brother, or does it end with someone actually getting hurt?

Look— there are nutbars on both sides. No one denies that. HOWEVER, the teabaggers are being encouraged to be in a constant state of fear/panic/outrage by some very powerful media players. We can’t ignore that, nor should we look for any sort of equivalency on the left in order to minimize or excuse it. That’s taking the easy way out when folks should be taking a hard look at the political environment that’s being stoked here and finding ways of combating it.

The issue here, aside from the threats against a congressman’s brother and his family, is that eventually, smaller groups of people within the teabagger movement will give in to those feelings of perpetual fear/panic/outrage that are being encouraged and they will start thinking that they are under siege. They will use those feelings to justify their actions, believing they are being righteous in their actions of posting addresses online, or throwing bricks through windows with out-of-context Goldwater quotes attached, or burning people in effigy, or sending death threats to members of Congress, or whatever.

Rhetoric has consequences. Words have power. This is serious stuff, as the incident in Virgina proves. Instead of trying to find examples of the same type of behavior on the other side in order to find an equivalence, why not focus our energy on encouraging elected officials in BOTH parties to speak out and openly condemn not only the actions of whoever severed the gas line, but also the rhetorical environment that led to this in the first place?

Political opposition is good. It’s necessary for a healthy democracy, even. And even though I voted for Obama, I welcome good, solid, intellectual opposition to his policies and ideas based on an actual ideology, and not just anger or fear. I think it’s a good thing.

I don’t think all Republicans are like whoever severed that gas line. I don’t think all conservatives are like that, either. But it’s almost impossible to have an intelligent conversation about the issues when the opposition insists on having the sort of heated rhetoric about socialist takeovers of the U.S., or treason, or whatever, and when they insist on poisoning the well by creating an environment where that sort of talk is de rigueur. That just gets in the way, and we need to find a way to stop it.

205 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:22:05pm

re: #196 webevintage

So it seems that day 2 of the Great 2010 Republican Temper Tantrum™ went well:
[Link: thinkprogress.org…]

and it does not matter if the cut line could or could not do damage (and I bet they are just lucky whoever did it was a moran™ does not mitigate the fact that someone cut the line after Troxel posted the address online.

The guy who cut it is lucky he didn’t blow himself up in the process. If he’d just whacked at the line with an axe or something, he could have earned a Darwin award.

206 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:22:19pm

re: #193 Obdicut

They still are an enormously respected institution. You don’t respect them. That does not change the actual amount of respect they have.

I have very great difficult treating your concern for civil liberties seriously after you said that national security issues mean that you’ll vote for a social conservative over a Democrat every time.

I told you that’s an easy call, If my number one concern during an election is national security then what other option do I have? All I ever hope for is a divided government with a strong Commander-in-Chief. Here’s something that may come as a surprise to a liberal but the left is just as big of an offender of civil liberties as the right.

BTW, I don’t need you to take my concerns for civil liberties seriously. You aren’t my judge and I don’t plan on changing my beliefs because you don’t think I take them seriously enough. I’ve done my part and will continue to do what I can in my own neighborhood without seeking or needing your approval.

207 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:22:43pm

re: #198 Obdicut

So Boehner’s statements above about someone being a ‘dead man’— that’s just concern for his well-being?

The irony of you painting ‘liberals’ with such a huge broad brush while simultaneously objecting to people reacting with alarm to actual incidents occurring stemming from people in the Tea Parties— that’s gotta be apparent to you, right?

you are probably right, but nothing has been proven yet as to who did what or why… hopefully it will all come out in the wash.

208 webevintage  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:23:03pm

re: #202 darthstar

Vitter’s submitting his amendment to the HCR reconciliation which will repeal the entire bill. Good luck with that, Diaper-man.

Fortunately, Al Franken is now chairing the debate, so this discussion could get interesting.

Bah!
I want to watch, but listening to Republican after Republican lie and whine and wockawockawocka is just more then I can take.

209 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:23:46pm

re: #199 wozzablog

This gets me too. I just pasted this on a facebook discussion. My friend posted about how terrible health care legislation is and how in danger our country is…

The thing that is so frustrating to me is that I heard none of this from Republicans for the past ten years. Bush, DeLay, Frist and Lott pushed through massive tax cuts without cutting spending, started the Medicare Plan D drug plan for seniors without paying for it, they put the Iraq and Afganistan wars off the books via emergency supplementals so that it wouldn’t get into the budget even though the money would have to be spent. Yet when Dems propose plans and put forth tax money to pay for them it’s the end of the world.

You have to forgive me for thinking this is a bit disingenuous.

210 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:25:40pm

re: #205 darthstar

The guy who cut it is lucky he didn’t blow himself up in the process. If he’d just whacked at the line with an axe or something, he could have earned a Darwin award.

posthumously

211 webevintage  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:25:43pm

re: #204 Lidane


Rhetoric has consequences. Words have power. This is serious stuff, as the incident in Virgina proves. Instead of trying to find examples of the same type of behavior on the other side in order to find an equivalence, why not focus our energy on encouraging elected officials in BOTH parties to speak out and openly condemn not only the actions of whoever severed the gas line, but also the rhetorical environment that led to this in the first place?

Word.

Words Have Power
Just think of the guy in TN who killed those folks at that church and what was found in the front seat of his car.

212 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:25:47pm

re: #204 Lidane

Stop making sense damnit. Didn’t you get the memo about this being the time for empty rhetoric and false platitudes????????

/

213 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:26:30pm

re: #203 cliffster

Are you saying that Boehner is advocating the person being murdered by using the expression, “dead man”?

I’m saying he’s engaging in reckless speech at a time when actual physically violent attacks are being carried out. And that for all his claims to be trying to quell the atmosphere, he’s lying, and inflaming it as well.

You can say it’s ironic if you like. I’m no fan of people acting this way. But I do very much think that liberals, pundits and politicians alike, would much rather talk about stuff like this than actual issues. There’s a reason for that.

That’s a false dichotomy. They don’t have to choose between talking about this or talking about issues.

214 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:26:48pm

re: #210 brookly red

There is no other way to win a Darwin Award.

215 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:28:11pm

re: #212 wozzablog

Stop making sense damnit. Didn’t you get the memo about this being the time for empty rhetoric and false platitudes???

/

No, no, I’m listening to her(?) reply quite respectfully.

216 Soap_Man  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:28:15pm

re: #214 wozzablog

There is no other way to win a Darwin Award.

Actually, you are eligible for the award if you survive, but render yourself sterile somehow.

217 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:28:32pm

re: #214 wozzablog

There is no other way to win a Darwin Award.

Well, castration or sterilization would. Anything which prevents breeding really.

218 Soap_Man  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:28:33pm

re: #216 Soap_Man

Actually, you are eligible for the award if you survive, but render yourself sterile somehow.

Those stories are actually the funnier ones.

219 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:28:43pm

re: #214 wozzablog

There is no other way to win a Darwin Award.

no there are some who survive… take the guy who “repaired” the headlights in his truck by replacing the blown fuse with a .22LR.

220 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:29:10pm

re: #210 brookly red

posthumously

The only way to win a Darwin Award!
XD

221 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:29:13pm

re: #216 Soap_Man

Actually, you are eligible for the award if you survive, but render yourself sterile somehow.

Tragic band saw accident.

222 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:29:30pm

re: #210 brookly red

posthumously

Well, that’s a requirement for getting a Darwin.

223 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:30:05pm

re: #222 darthstar

Well, that’s a requirement for getting a Darwin.

not

224 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:30:14pm

I know many Americans are angry over this health care bill, and that Washington Democrats just aren’t listening, but, as I’ve said, violence and threats are unacceptable. That’s not the American way.

225 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:30:19pm

re: #216 Soap_Man

Actually, you are eligible for the award if you survive, but render yourself sterile somehow.

Ooh…I stand, erm…corrected?

226 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:30:28pm

re: #216 Soap_Man

Actually, you are eligible for the award if you survive, but render yourself sterile somehow.

Like the attempted underwear bomber?
XD

227 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:30:35pm

re: #223 brookly red

not

See my 225

228 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:30:53pm

re: #225 darthstar

Ooh…I stand, erm…corrected?

better than fixed :)

229 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:30:59pm

re: #219 brookly red

no there are some who survive… take the guy who “repaired” the headlights in his truck by replacing the blown fuse with a .22LR.

You can’t do that? (Runs for car)

Actually you can if IT’S BEEN FIRED.

230 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:31:02pm

re: #206 RogueOne

I was a Republican when Tipper Gore was advocating warning labels on rap music and the ‘left’ as a whole thought that censorship of music and video games was going to do jack shit. Then the Right picked up the censorship meme and ran far farther than the left had.

BTW, I don’t need you to take my concerns for civil liberties seriously. You aren’t my judge and I don’t plan on changing my beliefs because you don’t think I take them seriously enough. I’ve done my part and will continue to do what I can in my own neighborhood without seeking or needing your approval.

I’m pointing out that your criticisms of groups that may weaken national security in the name of civil liberties lack credibility, since you have said national security is your dominant issue.

This has nothing to do with my approval. I respect your decision that national security is the overriding issue you care about. However, it does mean that claims you make about the SLPC are lacking in credibility to me. I’m not saying you care about that, or should care about that, and I’m not sure where you got that from. Of course I’m not your judge. Nor are you mine.

231 teleskiguy  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:31:37pm

Sarah Palin’s website is disgusting! Crosshairs, really? “We need to take aim” at these vulnerable congresspeople? This will all get worse before it gets better.

232 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:32:17pm

re: #219 brookly red

no there are some who survive… take the guy who “repaired” the headlights in his truck by replacing the blown fuse with a .22LR.

Mythbusters tested that and it worked! Lol, people sure are dumb.

233 Interesting Times  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:32:27pm

re: #216 Soap_Man

Actually, you are eligible for the award if you survive, but render yourself sterile somehow.

Does this qualify? :)

234 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:32:46pm

Man, the wife changed around our Netflix queue. Damn it.

235 webevintage  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:32:51pm

And then there is this.
dispatch.com

“He’s got every right to do what he did and some may say I did too, but what I did was shameful,” Reichert said. “I haven’t slept since that day.”

“I made a donation (to a local Parkinson’s disease group) and that starts the healing process.”

I’m glad the guy is ashamed of his actions and sad that he feels worried for his family. Yes it does cut both ways and there is no reason for people to forget that civility goes a long way.

Seriously, what he experienced is part of the reason I don’t go to protests because I might loose it and make a complete fool of myself and the next day find it on YouTube.

236 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:33:26pm

re: #232 Varek Raith

Mythbusters tested that and it worked! Lol, people sure are dumb.

at least turn it around so it points to the passenger side…

237 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:33:48pm

re: #231 teleskiguy

Sarah Palin’s website is disgusting! Crosshairs, really? “We need to take aim” at these vulnerable congresspeople? This will all get worse before it gets better.

I just hope whoever does go off the deep and and starts shooting at an elected official 1) misses, but gets arrested and 2) says he/she did it because Sarah told him to. Good-bye reality TV show. Good-bye Fox commentator spot. Good-bye political aspirations.

238 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:34:20pm

re: #213 Obdicut

I’m saying he’s engaging in reckless speech at a time when actual physically violent attacks are being carried out. And that for all his claims to be trying to quell the atmosphere, he’s lying, and inflaming it as well.

Outrageous outrage.

That’s a false dichotomy. They don’t have to choose between talking about this or talking about issues.

If you think so. I think it says something about one’s agenda when they’d rather talk about other things.

239 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:35:26pm

re: #224 Walter L. Newton

I know many Americans are angry over this health care bill, and that Washington Democrats just aren’t listening, but, as I’ve said, violence and threats are unacceptable. That’s not the American way.

Well, thanks for the up dings on the above comment, from the left and the right Lizards here. Let me post the rest of it.

“I know many Americans are angry over this health care bill, and that Washington Democrats just aren’t listening,” Boehner said. “But, as I’ve said, violence and threats are unacceptable. That’s not the American way. We need to take that anger and channel it into positive change. Call your congressman, go out and register people to vote, go volunteer on a political campaign, make your voice heard — but let’s do it the right way.”

politico.com

240 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:35:39pm

re: #214 wozzablog

I stand corrected simply by verifying what i said against the website.

That option is available to everyone else on any other topic………………..

241 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:36:26pm

re: #235 webevintage

I give him credit for apologizing. And you’re right, group think can get to people who think they are immuned. See those experiments on giving people electric shocks for an example.

242 teleskiguy  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:36:28pm

re: #237 darthstar

I just hope whoever does go off the deep and and starts shooting at an elected official 1) misses, but gets arrested and 2) says he/she did it because Sarah told him to. Good-bye reality TV show. Good-bye Fox commentator spot. Good-bye political aspirations.


As tragic as that scenario sounds, that actually sounds ideal. I just hope elected Democratic officials are vigilant in the coming quarters, the rightwing internet chatter is pretty scary right now.

243 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:36:51pm

re: #240 wozzablog

and also people pointing out i’d made an ass of myself…………..

244 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:37:10pm

re: #238 cliffster

If you think so. I think it says something about one’s agenda when they’d rather talk about other things.

That they’d ‘rather’ do it is your own creation, dude.

Complacency in the face of this is totally baffling to me.

245 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:38:31pm

re: #205 darthstar

The guy who cut it is lucky he didn’t blow himself up in the process. If he’d just whacked at the line with an axe or something, he could have earned a Darwin award.

The worst that could have happened is he would have turned the hose into a flame-thrower for a few seconds. I mentioned up-thread tanks are difficult to make explode.

If you want to know how to do a proper gas explosion it involves oxy/acetylene, a 200’ garden hose, a plastic bag and duct tape.

246 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:38:37pm

re: #239 Walter L. Newton

Good for him. I’ve glad to see it. That’s what we’re talking about…leadership needs to get in front of this stuff and LEAD.

247 webevintage  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:38:57pm

Wyden has pointed out that the states who have mounted lawsuits against the HC law CAN opt out of the mandates, they just have to come up with their own plan.
ZOMG! The Dems are such socialists, they even included an out for the states.


And I think there should be a way to dock the pay of Republican’s who refuse to work after 2pm.

248 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:39:39pm

re: #235 webevintage

And then there is this.
[Link: www.dispatch.com…]

“He’s got every right to do what he did and some may say I did too, but what I did was shameful,” Reichert said. “I haven’t slept since that day.”

“I made a donation (to a local Parkinson’s disease group) and that starts the healing process.”

I’m glad the guy is ashamed of his actions and sad that he feels worried for his family. Yes it does cut both ways and there is no reason for people to forget that civility goes a long way.

Seriously, what he experienced is part of the reason I don’t go to protests because I might loose it and make a complete fool of myself and the next day find it on YouTube.

In other words, he’s getting his ass shamed six ways till Sunday in his home town, at work, and deserves every second of it.

It’s easy to go to a protest and not make a fool of yourself.

249 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:39:50pm

re: #239 Walter L. Newton

I’m glad he said it- but it’s that he had to say it in the firstplace that makes me uneasy.

250 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:39:52pm

re: #245 RogueOne

The worst that could have happened is he would have turned the hose into a flame-thrower for a few seconds. I mentioned up-thread tanks are difficult to make explode.

If you want to know how to do a proper gas explosion it involves oxy/acetylene, a 200’ garden hose, a plastic bag and duct tape.

well that flamethrower business could still win you the award…

251 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:39:56pm

Obama signs executive order on abortion funding limits

Washington (CNN) — President Obama signed an executive order Wednesday ensuring that existing limits on the federal funding of abortion remain in place under the new health care reform law.

Unlike the signing of the health care bill Tuesday — which was conducted under the glare of television cameras — Wednesday’s event was closed to the news media.

It was attended by Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan and 12 other House Democrats opposed to abortion rights, without whose help the landmark overhaul bill would not have passed, political observers say.

252 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:40:41pm

re: #244 Obdicut

That they’d ‘rather’ do it is your own creation, dude.

Complacency in the face of this is totally baffling to me.

I don’t think anyone’s being complacent. I’m betting the staffers of Boehner, etc, are indeed on the phone with whoever they think can help to keep these yo-yo’s from acting a fool. It is a loose organization, though, and there’s only so much they can do.

253 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:42:38pm

re: #62 9Iron

Does the left want to take ownership of all activities of the wackos of the extremes of their ideology? Protest Warrior has plenty of documentation in case the handiwork of Greenpeace, ELF, and all of those Bush is Hitler signs marching at the G-8 summits don’t ring a bell. I am conservative, have been at this site for a long time but don’t post much, but don’t claim whoever did this anymore than most fair minded liberals claim the destructive torching of Hummer dealerships by those ELF asshats. This guy, if caught, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Not all right wingers and tea partiers are nut jobs but many love to pile on when they are able to prop up a handful of examples of such. Just my $0.02.

Nice try at equivalence, but thanks for playing! The right, nor the left, has a lock on stupidity or malevolence…whackos on either side are worthy of derision and scorn.

/BTW, 9iron…any relation to 3wood, huh?

254 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:42:44pm

re: #134 cliffster

It’s really important to liberals to keep the conversation away from the issues, because their lies and talking points are pretty flimsy. That’s why really all you hear is a steady stream of accusations against the right-wing. Every incident is exaggerated and plastered everywhere. Giant efforts are made to link GOP members to anything and everything evil. When your own agenda sucks, you spend all your time trying to trash the opponent.

Like you just did here?

I don’t know what debates, or plain old arguments, you’ve been in, but many of the debates I’ve engaged in, and those I’ve witnessed, have been the exact opposite. The religious right does not and will not address the issues, hell they don’t even recognize the issues. The anti-intellectuals on the right won’t address the the issues because to them, if it isn’t about the emotional response then it isn’t worth talking about. To them facts are about how they feel, not about observation and analysis.

The only right wing people I know personally who do examine the issues, logically and rationally, were booted out of FreeRepublic as RINOs and antiChrists.

Unfortunately, and this is just anecdotal, in my experience the number of rational right capable of arguing the issues is dwarfed by the remainder.

255 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:42:48pm

re: #239 Walter L. Newton

Wow Walter, Did you read the comments there?

256 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:43:21pm

re: #251 Varek Raith

Obama signs executive order on abortion funding limits

Hmmmm very interesting.

257 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:43:40pm

re: #253 talon_262


/BTW, 9iron…any relation to 3wood, huh?

I think they have similar commutes, but 3wood has a longer drive.

258 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:43:49pm

re: #244 Obdicut

Incidentally, re: your recommendation that I “take a break” after #153, it occurs to me that you feel I was lumping this site in with the “liberal bloggers and pundits pissing on themselves”. Hopefully it goes without saying that I don’t perceive this site in that way, but I appreciate your concern if that is indeed what you were saying.

259 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:44:09pm

re: #251 Varek Raith

Obama signs executive order on abortion funding limits

I thought that an executive order can’t over ride a legislation?

260 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:44:21pm

re: #230 Obdicut


This has nothing to do with my approval. I respect your decision that national security is the overriding issue you care about. However, it does mean that claims you make about the SLPC are lacking in credibility to me. I’m not saying you care about that, or should care about that, and I’m not sure where you got that from. Of course I’m not your judge. Nor are you mine.

This is where it came from:

re: #193 Obdicut

I have very great difficult treating your concern for civil liberties seriously after you said that national security issues mean that you’ll vote for a social conservative over a Democrat every time.

Just for the record Tipper cost Al my vote, Of course that was before he went all “man-bear-pig” on me. Until he ran for national office he was a pro-military moderate, I could have easily voted for him.

261 Lidane  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:44:53pm

Completely OT, but the HCR flip-flops have begun:

Grassley: Look How Great This Health Care Bill Is

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) has long been a vocal critic of the Democrat’s health reform efforts, but today he started taking credit for some provisions of the bill, and talking up his own role in crafting the legislation.

In a release sent out by his staff to reporters today, Grassley says the bill will “hold tax-exempt hospitals accountable for the federal tax benefits they receive” thanks to his work.

262 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:45:37pm

re: #204 Lidane

Another question to ask is where it all ends. Does it end with a severed gas line at the house of a congressman’s brother, or does it end with someone actually getting hurt?

Look— there are nutbars on both sides. No one denies that. HOWEVER, the teabaggers are being encouraged to be in a constant state of fear/panic/outrage by some very powerful media players. We can’t ignore that, nor should we look for any sort of equivalency on the left in order to minimize or excuse it. That’s taking the easy way out when folks should be taking a hard look at the political environment that’s being stoked here and finding ways of combating it.

The issue here, aside from the threats against a congressman’s brother and his family, is that eventually, smaller groups of people within the teabagger movement will give in to those feelings of perpetual fear/panic/outrage that are being encouraged and they will start thinking that they are under siege. They will use those feelings to justify their actions, believing they are being righteous in their actions of posting addresses online, or throwing bricks through windows with out-of-context Goldwater quotes attached, or burning people in effigy, or sending death threats to members of Congress, or whatever.

Rhetoric has consequences. Words have power. This is serious stuff, as the incident in Virgina proves. Instead of trying to find examples of the same type of behavior on the other side in order to find an equivalence, why not focus our energy on encouraging elected officials in BOTH parties to speak out and openly condemn not only the actions of whoever severed the gas line, but also the rhetorical environment that led to this in the first place?

Political opposition is good. It’s necessary for a healthy democracy, even. And even though I voted for Obama, I welcome good, solid, intellectual opposition to his policies and ideas based on an actual ideology, and not just anger or fear. I think it’s a good thing.

I don’t think all Republicans are like whoever severed that gas line. I don’t think all conservatives are like that, either. But it’s almost impossible to have an intelligent conversation about the issues when the opposition insists on having the sort of heated rhetoric about socialist takeovers of the U.S., or treason, or whatever, and when they insist on poisoning the well by creating an environment where that sort of talk is de rigueur. That just gets in the way, and we need to find a way to stop it.

Beautifully said.

263 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:45:41pm

re: #259 brookly red

I thought that an executive order can’t over ride a legislation?

There’s nothing in the new legislation granting new abortion rights in the first place so it’s all a lot of brouhaha over nothing.

264 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:45:48pm

re: #246 JoyousMN

Good for him. I’ve glad to see it. That’s what we’re talking about…leadership needs to get in front of this stuff and LEAD.

Noticeable silence by many that were heavily involved on this thread so far. You would think this would be universally applauded by all Lizards.

265 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:45:57pm

re: #187 SixDegrees

There are plenty of comments upthread that have nothing to do with such specifics.

And of course, there was that Al Franken incident when he attacked and physically carried a LaRouche supporter out of a meeting. Or the mock “trials” held in the COB by John Conyers, “charging” Bush with war crimes.

Of course, on the latter note, it’s only fair to point out that just last Sunday, Cindy Sheehan was once again in DC, this time demanding that the current President be physically tossed out of the White House over ongoing operations in Afghanistan. So maybe those balance each other out.

Frankly, I find it amusing that so much effort is being expended trying to deny precise equivalence. Of course there aren’t any examples of identical incidents - the incidents are separate to begin with. But trying to don the halo of innocence in this manner is laughable.

I assume you can use Google. There’s no shortage of vile bullshit that’s been committed by either side. “Oh, but their’s is way worse!” is childish and lame. Clean your own house, or at least acknowledge that it’s just as filthy as they one across the street.

Personally, I would count Franken’s tossing of the LaRouchie as an exercise in public sanitation rather than an assault.

Other than that, nobody on this site has been harsher toward violent lefties than I have over the years. It just seems fairly obvious, though, that crazies like ALF or guerrilla theater troupes like Greenpeace are much farther from the Democratic Party mainstream than Limbaugh, Beck, and the tea-parties are from its GOP counterpart. Greenpeace is not even an American organization, for crying out loud. The recent anti-Obama rhetoric from Code Pink and Cindy Sheehan is further evidence. Even back in 2004, I used the term “trans-Democrat left” for these far left gangs, meaning that they were far enough left to be outside the Democratic Party for any practical purpose. The tea-partiers are not off the edge of the Republican Party. As Neugebauer and others have shown, they are rapidly becoming the mainstream, if they aren’t already.

266 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:46:21pm

re: #261 Lidane

Completely OT, but the HCR flip-flops have begun:

Grassley: Look How Great This Health Care Bill Is

Deadline for filing a primary challenge to Grassley was March 19. Now he’s safe from Teabagger revenge so he can take credit for the bill he voted against.

267 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:46:28pm

re: #185 RogueOne

That first part I’ll give you, you’re right that currently the right is behaving worse. It’s always the side out of power that acts like assholes. What I won’t give you is when you toss in the SPLC. To me their about as reputable as the NRA and I don’t take either of those groups at their word. They’re lobbying groups out to gin up as much fear and concern as they can to keep the money flowing.

SPLC brought down the Klan. What is wrong with you?

268 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:46:34pm

re: #254 b_sharp

I hear, from the left, way more “The GOP is just obstructing and obfuscating” than I hear actual points about issues. When I hear actual points, they are misleading and/or, as you say, emotional arguments. Perhaps your experience has been different from mine.

269 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:46:35pm

re: #263 Conservative Moonbat

There’s nothing in the new legislation granting new abortion rights in the first place so it’s all a lot of brouhaha over nothing.

Thanks, that’s what I thought…

270 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:47:15pm

re: #251 Varek Raith

Obama signs executive order on abortion funding limits

Good thing RedState posted their “he’s not going to sign it” crystal ball gazing / prostitute-comparing rant against Stupak a day early, then. One of my favorite comments from the thread:

Bart Stupak is a “baby killer” and worse, this bill is like giving a murderess pedophile a daycare job all alone. Analogy, we do not allow suicide bombers on airplanes for a reason, this bill not only gives the right of every suicide bomber on airplanes, it also allows them to carry their bombs with a promise of don’t do that.
271 ShaunP  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:48:35pm

re: #268 cliffster

I hear, from the left, way more “The GOP is just obstructing and obfuscating” than I hear actual points about issues. When I hear actual points, they are misleading and/or, as you say, emotional arguments. Perhaps your experience has been different from mine.

That’s what is getting through your filter. It happens just as much on the right as it does on the left. You notice more when the opposition is doing it…

272 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:48:51pm

re: #259 brookly red

I thought that an executive order can’t over ride a legislation?

Oh, I thought we discussed this the other day.

You’re right; it can’t, but since there is nothing in the HCR law that overrides the Hyde Amendment or directs federal funds to abortions (that it did at all was another rwing lie/rabblerouser), the EO simply confirms that the existing law (Hyde Amendment) is still the law, and that HCR won’t change that.

273 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:49:39pm

re: #252 cliffster

The number of your assumptions is rather large.

274 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:50:02pm

re: #268 cliffster

I hear, from the left, way more “The GOP is just obstructing and obfuscating” than I hear actual points about issues. When I hear actual points, they are misleading and/or, as you say, emotional arguments. Perhaps your experience has been different from mine.

On the talk shows, there isn’t much policy discussed, just politics. If you compare what policy proposals both sides actually brought to the table, the difference becomes more clear, imo.

275 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:50:07pm

re: #152 9Iron

142 Obdicut

Yea, it’s easy to cut a sentence off in mid quote. So I’ll say again, when a republican president is in office, are you prepared to say all discourse will be civil?

I’m not Obdicut, but I can say without a doubt that not all discourse will be civil. However I will say that there will be many here willing to recognize the left wing crap for what it is and condemn it just as they have done with right wing crap.

Now, can you stop munching that tu quoque burger? You’re dripping ketchup on your vest.

276 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:50:28pm

re: #272 torrentprime

Oh, I thought we discussed this the other day.

You’re right; it can’t, but since there is nothing in the HCR law that overrides the Hyde Amendment or directs federal funds to abortions (that it did at all was another rwing lie/rabblerouser), the EO simply confirms that the existing law (Hyde Amendment) is still the law, and that HCR won’t change that.

I wasn’t here for that one… but as pointed out upstairs it is really moot.

277 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:50:53pm

re: #264 Walter L. Newton

It’d be great if he didn’t also refer to Democrats as dead men and say that they can’t go to a particular part of town because they’ll be ridden out on a rail. He’s talking out of both sides of his mouth.

278 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:51:01pm

re: #271 ShaunP

That’s what is getting through your filter. It happens just as much on the right as it does on the left. You notice more when the opposition is doing it…

That’s not actually true. It’s highly irritating when someone makes a poor argument about something that you support.

279 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:51:49pm

re: #239 Walter L. Newton

Well, thanks for the up dings on the above comment, from the left and the right Lizards here. Let me post the rest of it.

“I know many Americans are angry over this health care bill, and that Washington Democrats just aren’t listening,” Boehner said. “But, as I’ve said, violence and threats are unacceptable. That’s not the American way. We need to take that anger and channel it into positive change. Call your congressman, go out and register people to vote, go volunteer on a political campaign, make your voice heard — but let’s do it the right way.”

[Link: www.politico.com…]

I gave you a thumbs-up before even though I thought the “That’s not the American way” was misleading. Now that I know those weren’t your words I’m taking my ding back./

It is the American way because it’s the human way. This is what people do, they behave like assholes when they feel angry or they don’t feel like they have any other options. There are thousands and thousands of examples through our history of political violence, for starters we have 4 dead presidents and dozens of attempts on others. It is what it is. Expecting every member of a 300+ million family to behave with decorum is asking a bit much.

280 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:52:13pm

re: #258 cliffster

Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. I didn’t want to directly accuse you of it, since I know that wasn’t your intention, but that your language was a little… broad.

Thanks for appreciating and understanding that.

281 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:52:37pm

re: #273 Obdicut

The number of your assumptions is rather large.

Well, we’ll never know.

282 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:52:51pm

re: #268 cliffster

I hear, from the left, way more “The GOP is just obstructing and obfuscating” than I hear actual points about issues. When I hear actual points, they are misleading and/or, as you say, emotional arguments. Perhaps your experience has been different from mine.

Well, in day 2 of the GOP’s “We’re not doing anything” response to losing on health-care, they’ve managed to shut down:
1. Appropriations subcommitttee on Defense :FY 2011 Guard and Reserve Budget
2. Commerce committtee meeting to improve cybersecurity
3. DHS meeting to nominate Maj. Gen. Robert A Harding as Sec. of Homeland Security
4. Armed Services committee’s hearing sto examine Pacific Command, Strategic Command, and Defense Authorization Request for FY 2011 and Future years Defense program
5. Homeland Security’s meeting on Contracts for Afghan National Police Training

So I guess you could say they’re for “Country First”…just so long as it isn’t this country.

283 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:53:36pm

re: #268 cliffster

The argument on the Democratic side about healthcare is an emotional one - driven by the injustice in the current system.They feel strongly about caring for others and get emotional about it…… so sue them.

284 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:53:58pm

re: #153 cliffster

Liberal bloggers and pundits piss their pants every time something like this happens. I would like to think that it is out of concern for the pick with broken windows, but it’s not. You can pretend that the liberals try and stay focussed on the issues, but the fact is that it is all anti-GOP, all the time.

No, its about the unthinking reliance on violence and the unpredictability of the overemotional response.

And no, the left aren’t afraid of the right wingers doing this kind of crap, we’re worried about the drain on aluminum foil.

285 Soap_Man  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:53:58pm

Oh, it gets worse:

Daily Beast: Militia Targets Democrats

Like most of his ilk, Mike Vanderboegh sees his calls to violence as patriotic and defensive, designed to stop civil war—“if we are to avoid civil war, we must get their attention BEFORE the IRS thug parties descend upon us each in turn—when we will be forced into dozens of defensive slaughters and then, to end it, forced yet again to call Pelosi and the other architects of this war upon their own people to final account.

286 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:54:18pm

re: #279 RogueOne

I gave you a thumbs-up before even though I thought the “That’s not the American way” was misleading. Now that I know those weren’t your words I’m taking my ding back./

It is the American way because it’s the human way. This is what people do, they behave like assholes when they feel angry or they don’t feel like they have any other options. There are thousands and thousands of examples through our history of political violence, for starters we have 4 dead presidents and dozens of attempts on others. It is what it is. Expecting every member of a 300+ million family to behave with decorum is asking a bit much.

Oh, Rogue.

So the leaders (politically, ideologically, conceptually, whatever) of the tea partiers should turn a blind eye to and make no attempt to direct the outrage of their followers because historically and statistically speaking we have to expect a few assassination attempts and cut wires?

287 DaddyG  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:54:19pm

The modern blog discussion in one phrase:

Nyah Nyah this link (fill in blog of your choice) proves that they are evil and we are righteous.

Meh.

288 ShaunP  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:55:33pm

re: #278 cliffster

That’s not actually true. It’s highly irritating when someone makes a poor argument about something that you support.

I’ve gotten into arguments on tons of sites about false information on both sides, so I get what you’re saying. I just can’t believe that you are seriously making that statement in the face of “death panels” and “baby killers”…

289 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:55:53pm

re: #253 talon_262

Whoops, meant, “Neither the right, nor the left, has a lock on stupidity or malevolence…whackos on either side are worthy of derision and scorn.”

290 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:56:02pm

re: #267 LudwigVanQuixote

SPLC brought down the Klan. What is wrong with you?

Hey, I said they used to be a very positive institution but “used to be’s don’t count anymore”.

291 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:56:27pm

re: #287 DaddyG

Well, don’t forget there’s always at least one guy who posts that everybody arguing is doing so very badly and are wasting their time.

That’d be you, right now.

292 webevintage  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:56:35pm

re: #282 darthstar

So I guess you could say they’re for “Country First”…just so long as it isn’t this country.

Why do they hate America?

293 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:56:46pm

re: #290 RogueOne

Hey, I said they used to be a very positive institution but “used to be’s don’t count anymore”.

They just lay on the floor till we sweep them away…

You be Barbara, I’ll be Neil.

294 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:56:50pm

re: #284 b_sharp

No, its about the unthinking reliance on violence and the unpredictability of the overemotional response.

And no, the left aren’t afraid of the right wingers doing this kind of crap, we’re worried about the drain on aluminum foil.

Aluminum foil is more at risk than foreign oil in the internet every-yo-yo-has-a-blog age. We are going to have to find alternatives.

295 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:57:13pm

re: #292 webevintage

i don’t know webe - i just don’t know………


*sigh*

296 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:57:13pm

re: #291 Obdicut

upding! that’s funny, obi.

297 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:57:49pm

re: #285 Soap_Man

Oh, it gets worse:

Daily Beast: Militia Targets Democrats

sounds like a case of “now look what you made me do…”

298 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:58:47pm

re: #290 RogueOne

Hey, I said they used to be a very positive institution but “used to be’s don’t count anymore”.

It’s funny how the SPLC historical street cred seems to end riiiiiight around the time the Republicans rewrote history to say they always supported the civil rights causes represented by the SPLC. Before that - SPLC was on the GOP side. Now, sadly, they hate America.

299 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:59:02pm

Gladiator on teevee - bbl

300 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:59:33pm

re: #282 darthstar

Well, in day 2 of the GOP’s “We’re not doing anything” response to losing on health-care, they’ve managed to shut down:
1. Appropriations subcommitttee on Defense :FY 2011 Guard and Reserve Budget
2. Commerce committtee meeting to improve cybersecurity
3. DHS meeting to nominate Maj. Gen. Robert A Harding as Sec. of Homeland Security
4. Armed Services committee’s hearing sto examine Pacific Command, Strategic Command, and Defense Authorization Request for FY 2011 and Future years Defense program
5. Homeland Security’s meeting on Contracts for Afghan National Police Training

So I guess you could say they’re for “Country First”…just so long as it isn’t this country.

Restated for emphasis.

The GOP has the notion that hurting America when teh Dems are in power means that they can blame the Dems. And the healthcare debate is a prime example in of itself. The bill we got is mangled and nowhere near as good as it could have been. Yet everyone knows that there was plenty to be fixed. Imagine what would have happened if the GOP had worked with the Dems to make a better bill rather than trying to sabotage any effort to do something needed from day one, out of their own craven political interests and desire to fight dirty.

The Dems are hardly a good party in my book. They are weak, self serving and fractured. The GOP on the other hand, are utter scum for trying their best to derail America as a whole in an organized, transparent and coordinated case of sour grapes.

301 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:59:33pm

re: #299 wozzablog

Gladiator on teevee - bbl

you like movies about gladiators?

302 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:59:43pm

re: #286 torrentprime

Oh, Rogue.

So the leaders (politically, ideologically, conceptually, whatever) of the tea partiers should turn a blind eye to and make no attempt to direct the outrage of their followers because historically and statistically speaking we have to expect a few assassination attempts and cut wires?

That’s not quite what I said now is it? What I said was the idea that political violence has never had a role in American society is mistaken. I never said anything about tolerating it, although we have in the past, nor did I say a political party should condone it. All I said was “it is what it is”.

303 DaddyG  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:59:53pm

re: #291 Obdicut

Well, don’t forget there’s always at least one guy who posts that everybody arguing is doing so very badly and are wasting their time.

That’d be you, right now.

I know my role. :-)

304 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:00:42pm

re: #293 darthstar

They just lay on the floor till we sweep them away…

You be Barbara, I’ll be Neil.

My mother was a Neil Diamond groupie, I don’t usually tell people.

305 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:01:30pm

re: #285 Soap_Man

Oh, it gets worse:

Daily Beast: Militia Targets Democrats

Defensive slaughters?

Seriously WTF?

306 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:02:47pm

re: #304 RogueOne

My mother was a Neil Diamond groupie, I don’t usually tell people.

Neil’s my go-to guy for Karaoke when I find myself in a bar that has it and I’m drunk enough not to care if people laugh at me. I’ve memorized most of his songs…got an elderly black lady to sing “You don’t bring me flowers” with me one time at this dive on the Mission. It was a blast. That was in 2003 I guess, so it’s been 7 years since I’ve done that…maybe I’m overdue.

307 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:03:04pm

re: #305 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Defensive slaughters?

Seriously WTF?

on the bright side barking dogs don’t bite…

watch out for the quiet ones.

308 9Iron  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:03:41pm

253 talon_262

No, no relation to 3 Wood. You can feel free to check my stats, I’m not a drive by poster.

I agree that wackos on either side deserve derision. All of the mocking on site seems to be coming from left to right. There was a day that it went right to left. That will change again, as it does in a representative republic, with the change in power. I hope that when the left chants racist remarks at a US Secretary of State of President the outrage will be just as loud from all of you.

//I’m off to grab my kids from school, be back in a bit. I’m not ducking criticism of my remarks.

309 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:04:11pm

re: #293 darthstar

They just lay on the floor till we sweep them away…

You be Barbara, I’ll be Neil.

Loves me some Neil Diamond…even though I don’t care for Streisand very much, “You Don’t Bring Me Flowers Anymore” was a great duet.

310 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:04:38pm

re: #282 darthstar

Well, in day 2 of the GOP’s “We’re not doing anything” response to losing on health-care, they’ve managed to shut down:
1. Appropriations subcommitttee on Defense :FY 2011 Guard and Reserve Budget
2. Commerce committtee meeting to improve cybersecurity
3. DHS meeting to nominate Maj. Gen. Robert A Harding as Sec. of Homeland Security
4. Armed Services committee’s hearing sto examine Pacific Command, Strategic Command, and Defense Authorization Request for FY 2011 and Future years Defense program
5. Homeland Security’s meeting on Contracts for Afghan National Police Training

So I guess you could say they’re for “Country First”…just so long as it isn’t this country.

Well, the democrats made clear they were willing to do whatever it takes, procedure be damned, to pass their HCR. Why? Because they think their HCR is what’s best for the country. Now, republicans are doing whatever it takes to put HCR on track for repeal/complete-overhaul. Why? Because they think that HCR is horrible and repealing it or chopping it up is what’s best. If either side was being honest about “just doing what’s right”, it’d be admirable although still 100% wrong. The fact is, they are almost to a number self-serving power whores and it sucks watching them on public display.

311 alexknyc  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:04:50pm

What the hell is the matter with these people?

312 ShaunP  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:05:03pm

re: #300 LudwigVanQuixote

Restated for emphasis.

The GOP has the notion that hurting America when teh Dems are in power means that they can blame the Dems. And the healthcare debate is a prime example in of itself. The bill we got is mangled and nowhere near as good as it could have been. Yet everyone knows that there was plenty to be fixed. Imagine what would have happened if the GOP had worked with the Dems to make a better bill rather than trying to sabotage any effort to do something needed from day one, out of their own craven political interests and desire to fight dirty.

The Dems are hardly a good party in my book. They are weak, self serving and fractured. The GOP on the other hand, are utter scum for trying their best to derail America as a whole in an organized, transparent and coordinated case of sour grapes.

I saw this article today and I thought it fit well with your post:

frumforum.com

…This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law…

313 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:05:19pm

re: #298 torrentprime

It’s funny how the SPLC historical street cred seems to end riiight around the time the Republicans rewrote history to say they always supported the civil rights causes represented by the SPLC. Before that - SPLC was on the GOP side. Now, sadly, they hate America.

I never insinuated anything other than they want your money so please send it to them. Just like if you carry an NRA card they would also like your continued support and in order to show you how important it is they’ll prove Obama wants to take away your bullets.

Still don’t see my point? Try this, just because a group does good work doesn’t mean they aren’t going to try to sell you a shovel full of crap and tell you your life is on the line unless you send them $29.95.

314 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:05:53pm

re: #301 brookly red

you like movies about gladiators?

Have you ever been in a… in a Turkish prison?

315 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:05:58pm

Neil Diamond is a tool

316 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:06:40pm

re: #306 darthstar

Neil’s my go-to guy for Karaoke when I find myself in a bar that has it and I’m drunk enough not to care if people laugh at me. I’ve memorized most of his songs…got an elderly black lady to sing “You don’t bring me flowers” with me one time at this dive on the Mission. It was a blast. That was in 2003 I guess, so it’s been 7 years since I’ve done that…maybe I’m overdue.

I do believe Karaoke rehab can now not be denied as a pre-existing condition… maybe there is some good in this bill.

317 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:06:47pm

re: #306 darthstar

Neil’s my go-to guy for Karaoke when I find myself in a bar that has it and I’m drunk enough not to care if people laugh at me. I’ve memorized most of his songs…got an elderly black lady to sing “You don’t bring me flowers” with me one time at this dive on the Mission. It was a blast. That was in 2003 I guess, so it’s been 7 years since I’ve done that…maybe I’m overdue.

We have to have youtube video or it didn’t happen/

318 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:06:54pm

re: #315 cliffster

Tool or not, the dude can craft a song.

319 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:07:04pm

re: #310 cliffster

Well, the democrats made clear they were willing to do whatever it takes, procedure be damned, to pass their HCR.

Sorry, can’t let this zombie lie go unchallenged. The bill signed was passed by both chambers (majority of the House, 60 in the Senate) and the recon. bill was passed by the House with a majority vote; the Senate is about to do the same.

Please explain what procedure this violated or damned. In any way.

320 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:07:13pm

re: #310 cliffster

Well, the democrats made clear they were willing to do whatever it takes, procedure be damned, to pass their HCR. Why? Because they think their HCR is what’s best for the country. Now, republicans are doing whatever it takes to put HCR on track for repeal/complete-overhaul. Why? Because they think that HCR is horrible and repealing it or chopping it up is what’s best. If either side was being honest about “just doing what’s right”, it’d be admirable although still 100% wrong. The fact is, they are almost to a number self-serving power whores and it sucks watching them on public display.

This is bullshit. The Republicans used every single procedural trick in the book and even invented some new ones to derail the whole process. They never offered up a single bit of constructive input to the bill and did everything in their power to sabotage it from day one. The Dems reached out again and again to the GOP and accepted all manner of stupid demands in order to work with them. The GOP for its part never once negotiated in good faith.

The debate is less than a week old now. Even for you that is fast off the mark to try to rewrite history.

321 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:07:24pm

Seriously, what the fuck is a defensive slaughter?

“Well, we thought these people might have been against us politically, so we decided to kill them all just to be on the safe side.”

What the fucking hell is this shit? And these fuckers think they’re following in the founding fathers footsteps?

322 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:07:26pm

re: #310 cliffster

Well, the democrats made clear they were willing to do whatever it takes, procedure be damned, to pass their HCR. Why? Because they think their HCR is what’s best for the country. Now, republicans are doing whatever it takes to put HCR on track for repeal/complete-overhaul. Why? Because they think that HCR is horrible and repealing it or chopping it up is what’s best. If either side was being honest about “just doing what’s right”, it’d be admirable although still 100% wrong. The fact is, they are almost to a number self-serving power whores and it sucks watching them on public display.

The bill that passed passed with 60 votes (and cloture). So no procedures were damned in the process. The reconciliation bill is necessary because the Republicans have said they refuse to participate unless the Democrats start over. And now they want to repeal what 60 Senators voted for? Please.

And Bob Dole (a Republican with a medically enhanced hard on) originally proposed much of what was in the bill that passed. So it’s not like they were voting against a liberal bill…they were voting against something they used to advocate.

This is about one thing, and that is derailing the President so they can try to win back the majority.

323 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:07:56pm

re: #315 cliffster

Neil Diamond is a tool


A tool used to unlock womens hearts.

324 DaddyG  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:08:07pm

It is disappointing that these sad and sick events are even fodder for a partisan discussion. I see no difference between an abortion clinic bomber and a recruiting office bomber. I also don’t blame political parties for the nutcases who use their positions (or lack therof) to justify murder. It is positively sick for the Dems and/or Reps to score political points off of violence and radicalism.

Asking your colleagues to get your back (condemn violence) is a discussion best had somewhere besides the press. Likewise asking teh crazies to stop is best done louldy, publicly and repeatedly.

325 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:08:14pm

re: #321 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Seriously, what the fuck is a defensive slaughter?

“Well, we thought these people might have been against us politically, so we decided to kill them all just to be on the safe side.”

What the fucking hell is this shit? And these fuckers think they’re following in the founding fathers footsteps?

Its alot like preemptive war ;)

326 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:08:20pm

re: #323 Oh no…Sand People!

A tool used to unlock womens hearts.

in bed.

327 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:08:21pm

re: #306 darthstar

Neil’s my go-to guy for Karaoke when I find myself in a bar that has it and I’m drunk enough not to care if people laugh at me. I’ve memorized most of his songs…got an elderly black lady to sing “You don’t bring me flowers” with me one time at this dive on the Mission. It was a blast. That was in 2003 I guess, so it’s been 7 years since I’ve done that…maybe I’m overdue.

If you intend to do this in the near future, please let us all know when and where it will be, so we can all avoid the place.

Thanks in advance.

328 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:08:33pm

re: #315 cliffster

Neil Diamond is a tool

Downdinged for calling Neil a tool. Even if you were joking.

329 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:08:44pm

re: #320 LudwigVanQuixote

This is bullshit. The Republicans used every single procedural trick in the book and even invented some new ones to derail the whole process. They never offered up a single bit of constructive input to the bill and did everything in their power to sabotage it from day one. The Dems reached out again and again to the GOP and accepted all manner of stupid demands in order to work with them. The GOP for its part never once negotiated in good faith.

The debate is less than a week old now. Even for you that is fast off the mark to try to rewrite history.

Also, it’s important to note that regardless of the faith shown by the GOP, good or otherwise, not a single rule or standard of Congress was broken by the Dems. They didn’t even go the Slaughter route, and even that is legal.

330 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:09:00pm

re: #323 Oh no…Sand People!

A tool used to unlock womens hearts.

I thought that read “pants”. Kinda grossed me out for a second.

331 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:09:58pm

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

If you intend to do this in the near future, please let us all know when and where it will be, so we can all avoid the place.

Thanks in advance.

I’d pay to see that on youtube.

332 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:10:19pm

re: #325 windsagio

Its alot like preemptive war ;)

Slight difference when speaking about hostile nations with a record of supporting terrorism and the guy down the street who votes differently than you.

333 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:10:25pm

re: #324 DaddyG

It is disappointing that these sad and sick events are even fodder for a partisan discussion. I see no difference between an abortion clinic bomber and a recruiting office bomber. I also don’t blame political parties for the nutcases who use their positions (or lack therof) to justify murder. It is positively sick for the Dems and/or Reps to score political points off of violence and radicalism.

Asking your colleagues to get your back (condemn violence) is a discussion best had somewhere besides the press. Likewise asking teh crazies to stop is best done louldy, publicly and repeatedly.

It goes back to the frum post the other day; The republicans used to be controlling the crazies (or in that post, Fox), now the crazies are controlling the republicans.

334 DaddyG  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:10:34pm

re: #331 RogueOne

I’d pay to see that on youtube.

They don’t run videos of abuse do they? /

335 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:10:50pm

re: #325 windsagio

Its alot like preemptive war ;)

do onto others… first.

336 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:10:55pm

Extra Security For Members Of Congress After Activist, Tea Party Threats

Since health care reform passed Congress on Sunday night, a series of angry — and sometimes criminal — reactions have been reported. We’re monitoring the reports and have compiled several in the list below. Take a look.
337 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:11:12pm

re: #315 cliffster

Neil Diamond is a tool

Oh no you didn’t!

///

338 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:11:32pm

re: #294 cliffster

Aluminum foil is more at risk than foreign oil in the internet every-yo-yo-has-a-blog age. We are going to have to find alternatives.

I can’t disagree with you there.

Perhaps something made of algae.

339 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:11:40pm

re: #336 Killgore Trout

Extra Security For Members Of Congress After Activist, Tea Party Threats

I really hate to say this but, this is going to end badly…

340 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:12:10pm

re: #335 brookly red

exactly!


No wait!


PS: I’m sorry I was calling you a liar last night, for a few reasons I was in a really bad mood, and that was out of line.

341 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:12:23pm

re: #320 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #322 darthstar

re: #319 torrentprime

I’m sure you heard the interview Obama did where he said, “I’m not concerned about procedure…” or something to that effect. It’s what he said. In the leadup to the vote, there was plenty of democrats rationalizing all the different tactics they were considering. The fact that what is coming out of it (it’s not done - the reconciliation bill still has to be passed) is less sinister is small comfort. And what it is is bad enough - saying, “ok, you sign the bill and I promise to pass these changes, cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye”

342 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:12:31pm

re: #339 Varek Raith

I really hate to say this but, this is going to end badly…

I guess it wouldn’t be appropriate to start a betting pool…March Madness and all.

343 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:13:12pm

re: #340 windsagio

exactly!

No wait!

PS: I’m sorry I was calling you a liar last night, for a few reasons I was in a really bad mood, and that was out of line.

/that’s OK, I don’t listen to you anyway ;)

344 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:13:15pm

re: #328 darthstar

Downdinged for calling Neil a tool. Even if you were joking.

Diamond is actually a pop music genius. He is very well aware of the connection of certain chord progressions and the “hook” they are capable of putting into someone head. I don’t have all the details at my finger tips, but with in the science of music there are certain tonal progressions that “trigger” a positive response in humans, are easy to remember and “sing along” with and produce a “good vibe” in a group situation.

Another composer who uses these musical techniques to great advantage is Andrew Lloyd Weber.

345 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:13:20pm

re: #339 Varek Raith

I really hate to say this but, this is going to end badly…

Of course, I’m a youngster around these parts.
:)

346 Lidane  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:13:30pm
347 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:13:50pm

re: #342 Oh no…Sand People!

you konw one does wonder tho’, anyone have the balls to risk being put on a federal list, and check Vegas or Intrade on ‘odds of domestic terrorism’?

348 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:14:00pm

re: #339 Varek Raith

I really hate to say this but, this is going to end badly…

Probably. It’s been pretty much inevitable for a while now. Nobody on the right is willing to deal with the problem.

349 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:14:07pm

re: #330 RogueOne

I thought that read “pants”. Kinda grossed me out for a second.

I remember a skit (SNL?) where “Neil” was doing a medley with his band and talking about hookers, drugs, a murder, etc. and all the fun times they had on the road.

350 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:14:13pm

re: #341 cliffster

re: #322 darthstar

re: #319 torrentprime

I’m sure you heard the interview Obama did where he said, “I’m not concerned about procedure…” or something to that effect. It’s what he said. In the leadup to the vote, there was plenty of democrats rationalizing all the different tactics they were considering. The fact that what is coming out of it (it’s not done - the reconciliation bill still has to be passed) is less sinister is small comfort. And what it is is bad enough - saying, “ok, you sign the bill and I promise to pass these changes, cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye”

So, in other words, you can’t point to a single procedure that was done out of order? Of any kind, in any way?

351 DaddyG  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:14:15pm

The neo-revolutionaries are doing nothing to help those who oppose the new Health Care legislation as Federal encroachment into private industry.

I’d like to take the idjiots by the scriff of the neck (figuratively) and tell them to take it to the voting booth.

352 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:14:49pm

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

Diamond is actually a pop music genius. He is very well aware of the connection of certain chord progressions and the “hook” they are capable of putting into someone head. I don’t have all the details at my finger tips, but with in the science of music there are certain tonal progressions that “trigger” a positive response in humans, are easy to remember and “sing along” with and produce a “good vibe” in a group situation.

Another composer who uses these musical techniques to great advantage is Andrew Lloyd Weber.

Hitler’s speeches were done using onomatopoeia…therefore, Neil = Hitler!

/////

353 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:15:02pm

re: #323 Oh no…Sand People!

A tool used to unlock womens hearts.

Ewww.

354 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:15:09pm

re: #345 Varek Raith

Of course, I’m a youngster around these parts.
:)

You just watch. I expect Obama to announce he will enact the Tarkin Doctrine by the end of the year.

355 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:15:22pm

re: #348 Killgore Trout

Probably. It’s been pretty much inevitable for a while now. Nobody on the right is willing to deal with the problem.

Well in a rare case of me agreeing with you, some feel this IS dealing with the problem.

356 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:15:29pm

re: #294 cliffster

Aluminum foil is more at risk than foreign oil in the internet every-yo-yo-has-a-blog age. We are going to have to find alternatives.

The black helicopter crowd just needs to get some lead foil from the German supplier Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman used to build the MythBusters “lead balloon” experiment. Kills two birds with one stone, so to speak…

///

357 SixDegrees  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:16:04pm
358 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:16:34pm

re: #354 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You just watch. I expect Obama to announce he will enact the Tarkin Doctrine by the end of the year.

How dare he implement that before I do!11!!111

359 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:16:35pm

re: #318 windsagio

Tool or not, the dude can craft a song.

Youtube Video

Yep. Glad my liking for his stuff survived my “hipper than thou” phase.

360 djughurknot  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:16:43pm

re: #342 Oh no…Sand People!

Dirty Harry might have something to say about that.

Youtube Video

361 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:16:56pm

re: #348 Killgore Trout

Probably. It’s been pretty much inevitable for a while now. Nobody on the right is willing to deal with the problem.

Not while they think these wackos votes are critical to their futures.

362 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:19:16pm

re: #360 djughurknot

One of Jim Carey’s first roles. heh.

363 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:19:29pm

re: #323 Oh no…Sand People!

A tool used to unlock womens hearts.

step away from my grandma…

364 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:19:31pm

re: #358 Varek Raith

How dare he implement that before I do!11!!111

Just find yourself a farm boy who can bullseye womprats and you should be okay.

365 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:19:37pm

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

Diamond is actually a pop music genius. He is very well aware of the connection of certain chord progressions and the “hook” they are capable of putting into someone head. I don’t have all the details at my finger tips, but with in the science of music there are certain tonal progressions that “trigger” a positive response in humans, are easy to remember and “sing along” with and produce a “good vibe” in a group situation.

Another composer who uses these musical techniques to great advantage is Andrew Lloyd Weber.

Neil Diamond and Carole King, two of the best singer-songwriters from the 60s Brill Building crew…

366 Lidane  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:19:41pm

re: #315 cliffster

Neil Diamond is a tool

Just for that, one of my favorite Neil Diamond songs:

Youtube Video

:)

367 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:19:43pm

re: #361 darthstar

That’s really the thing I keep railing on. After years of selling out the longterm for the short, they’ve gotta start making some short-term sacrifices to rebuild the party into something viable. Right now the only thing that’s keeping them ‘a party’ is the massive inertia in the American system.

368 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:19:46pm

re: #361 darthstar

Not while they think these wackos votes are critical to their futures.

You gullible fool - the long term strategy is to make the crazies feel powerful, and then make them all democrats.

369 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:20:02pm

re: #340 windsagio


PS: I’m sorry I was calling you a liar last night, for a few reasons I was in a really bad mood, and that was out of line.

I have no idea what this is about, but can I just say that this is why I’ve come to love this site. It’s the only place I’ve found where this sort of thing is common and libs and cons can talk together without (too many) fireballs.

And when there are fireballs, people have the consideration to apologize.

Stay classy, lizards!

370 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:20:06pm

re: #361 darthstar

Not while they think these wackos votes are critical to their futures.

Let’s not forget the (beginning of the?) rebellion from the right against the angry right already happened (you might have blinked and missed it). Remember those congressmen who dared object to or criticize Rush? How many prominent GOP politicians apologized?

371 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:20:24pm

re: #368 cliffster

I guess it worked for the Dems foisting off the racists, so it might work for them ;)

372 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:20:25pm

re: #363 brookly red

step away from my grandma…

Desperate times call for desperate measures…

/// ok..now…’ewww’ is justified.

373 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:20:35pm

Stupak’s voice mail on CBS “You’re the devil” “I hope you bleed out your ass, get cancer and die.”
Lovely. Onward Christian soldiers!

374 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:20:44pm

Whatever became of RoboDump 1.0?

375 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:20:48pm

Everybody, I would like to offer my deepest apologies for the unforgivable trolling and pushing of buttons I’ve done on this thread. I never should have called Neil Diamond a tool. I’m sorry.

376 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:21:20pm

re: #373 darthstar

Stupak’s voice mail on CBS “You’re the devil” “I hope you bleed out your ass, get cancer and die.”
Lovely. Onward Christian soldiers!

wait, was that Sean Penn?

377 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:21:29pm

re: #375 cliffster

pff it can be both ways anyways. Most great musicians are tools when you get right down ot it :P

378 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:21:32pm

re: #373 darthstar

Stupak’s voice mail on CBS “You’re the devil” “I hope you bleed out your ass, get cancer and die.”
Lovely. Onward Christian soldiers!

There is proof that person is Christian?

379 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:22:27pm

re: #378 Oh no…Sand People!

There is proof that person is Christian?

Listen to the audio. A mix of religious rhetoric and death.

380 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:23:01pm

re: #378 Oh no…Sand People!

There is proof that person is Christian?

More proof than that of death panels. :)

381 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:23:25pm

re: #379 darthstar

no, thanks >> I’ll take your word for it.

382 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:23:34pm

re: #379 darthstar

Listen to the audio. A mix of religious rhetoric and death.

objection, hearsay. the alleged caller has not been identified.

383 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:24:09pm

re: #382 brookly red

Don’t be saying that its a liberal trying to make the right look bad :p

384 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:24:10pm

re: #365 talon_262

Neil Diamond and Carole King, two of the best singer-songwriters from the 60s Brill Building crew…

There’s an absolutely gorgeous version of “You’ve Got A Friend” on one of her live albums, with Graham Nash and David Crosby guesting on harmony vocals. Doesn’t seem to be online, though.

385 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:24:45pm

re: #379 darthstar

Listen to the audio. A mix of religious rhetoric and death.

‘Turncoat’ is a religious term? The first voice had no ‘Christian’ ‘code words’…now the second audio lady…I would agree.

And if you want consider everyone who uses the phrase ‘Go to hell’ to be a Christian. Then the other 2 as well.

386 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:24:52pm

re: #349 darthstar

I remember a skit (SNL?) where “Neil” was doing a medley with his band and talking about hookers, drugs, a murder, etc. and all the fun times they had on the road.

I looked for it on youtube but they have it taken down. It’s on dailymotion though.

Neil Diamond: Storytellers:
Neil Diamond: Storytellers…”This next song is all about my love of hard-core barely legal porno”

387 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:25:16pm

re: #383 windsagio

Don’t be saying that its a liberal trying to make the right look bad :p


so there are no Christian liberals?

388 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:25:31pm

re: #382 brookly red

objection, hearsay. the alleged caller has not been identified.

So we all agree it’s a foaming at the mouth, threatening, unhinged and angry caller? Just not sure it’s a Christian one? I can live with that.

389 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:25:46pm

re: #387 brookly red

so there are no Christian liberals?

If there aren’t I don’t exist…


OH NO, MY MIND’S BEEN BLOWN!

390 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:26:43pm

re: #375 cliffster

Everybody, I would like to offer my deepest apologies for the unforgivable trolling and pushing of buttons I’ve done on this thread. I never should have called Neil Diamond a tool. I’m sorry.

You may atone by sending a case of Crackling Rose to the moonbat of your choice.

391 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:26:45pm

re: #384 The Sanity Inspector

There’s an absolutely gorgeous version of “You’ve Got A Friend” on one of her live albums, with Graham Nash and David Crosby guesting on harmony vocals. Doesn’t seem to be online, though.

Oops, I’m wrong: it’s on Lala.com

392 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:27:11pm

re: #389 windsagio

If there aren’t I don’t exist…

OH NO, MY MIND’S BEEN BLOWN!

congratulations, you now a Buddhist!

393 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:27:13pm

re: #387 brookly red

*fades back into existence after existential crisis*

I don’t care much about the ‘christian’ angle, it was more a callback to that same discussion coming up at least twice over the last 2 days :P

394 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:27:27pm

re: #370 torrentprime

Let’s not forget the (beginning of the?) rebellion from the right against the angry right already happened (you might have blinked and missed it). Remember those congressmen who dared object to or criticize Rush? How many prominent GOP politicians apologized?

The problem is, it’s going to run it’s course. There is not much that the GOP can do about it. The Tea Parties and related groups let (encouraged) certain types of questionable people to hang their banners along with them, and that has given these radicals an air of acceptance and legitimacy.

On top of that, the internet enable these kinds of people to find almost instant justification because they can find others of like proclivities at the speed of light.

There is not much that any of us can do about it. Speaking out against it is important, but will do little to convince people who have the ear of so many supporters to change the direction of their intents.

I totally agree with Killgore in regards to this point ” It’s been pretty much inevitable for a while now…”

395 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:28:42pm

re: #382 brookly red

objection, hearsay. the alleged caller has not been identified.

If you were to guess, would you say that the bulk of those callers self-identified as Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Bhuddist, Hindu, or Athiest?

Be honest now…where do you think these people worship on Sundays?

396 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:29:24pm

re: #388 torrentprime

So we all agree it’s a foaming at the mouth, threatening, unhinged and angry caller? Just not sure it’s a Christian one? I can live with that.

I would appear that way… but some times people hang nooses in their own trees… It looks bad but there is just no proof one way or the other who made the call or why.

397 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:29:27pm

re: #390 Spare O’Lake

You may atone by sending a case of Crackling Rose to the moonbat of your choice.

A case of crack? Do you realize how much that will cost?

398 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:29:29pm

re: #394 Walter L. Newton

The problem is, it’s going to run it’s course. There is not much that the GOP can do about it. The Tea Parties and related groups let (encouraged) certain types of questionable people to hang their banners along with them, and that has given these radicals an air of acceptance and legitimacy.

On top of that, the internet enable these kinds of people to find almost instant justification because they can find others of like proclivities at the speed of light.

There is not much that any of us can do about it. Speaking out against it is important, but will do little to convince people who have the ear of so many supporters to change the direction of their intents.

I totally agree with Killgore in regards to this point ” It’s been pretty much inevitable for a while now…”

Agree, pretty much across the board. I do want those who could have directed the flow in a more responsible manner to be held responsible, but that’s about as likely as those who started the flow to admit fault, so, as long as I’m wishing, I’d like a pony.

399 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:29:52pm

re: #395 darthstar

If you were to guess, would you say that the bulk of those callers self-identified as Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Bhuddist, Hindu, or Athiest?

Be honest now…where do you think these people worship on Sundays?

the corner bar.

400 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:30:06pm

re: #395 darthstar

If you were to guess, would you say that the bulk of those callers self-identified as Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Bhuddist, Hindu, or Athiest?

Be honest now…where do you think these people worship on Sundays?

On the couch, watching a sporting event or bass fishing.

401 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:30:36pm

re: #399 brookly red

the corner bar.

Fair enough.

402 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:30:50pm
403 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:30:57pm

re: #396 brookly red

I would appear that way… but some times people hang nooses in their own trees… It looks bad but there is just no proof one way or the other who made the call or why.

re: #355 brookly red

Well in a rare case of me agreeing with you, some feel this IS dealing with the problem.

Denying, minimizing, and postulating setups or fake threats is dealing with it? Respectfully, I disagree.

404 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:31:04pm

re: #400 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

On the couch, watching a sporting event or bass fishing.

I didn’t realize bass fishers were so political.

405 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:31:25pm

re: #398 torrentprime

I still think that if a major party quit relying on and supporting them, they’d slip back into the margians with a surprising alacrity.

406 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:31:33pm

re: #400 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

On the couch, watching a sporting event or bass fishing.

Youtube Video

407 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:32:06pm

re: #404 darthstar

I didn’t realize bass fishers were so political.

Anything to keep your mind off the fact you’re bass fishing.

408 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:32:39pm

Now ‘fess up: Who here besides me once thought that this song was by Neil Diamond?

Youtube Video

409 bratwurst  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:32:49pm

re: #315 cliffster

Neil Diamond is a tool

NOW you have my dander up!

410 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:32:59pm

re: #407 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Anything to keep your mind off the fact you’re bass fishing.

I used to watch those bass fishing shows (and like to fish) and I’ve never severed a propane line…intentionally.

411 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:33:31pm

re: #410 darthstar

I used to watch those bass fishing shows (and like to fish) and I’ve never severed a propane line…intentionally.

Denial is the first step…
//

412 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:33:35pm

re: #394 Walter L. Newton

The problem is, it’s going to run it’s course. There is not much that the GOP can do about it. The Tea Parties and related groups let (encouraged) certain types of questionable people to hang their banners along with them, and that has given these radicals an air of acceptance and legitimacy.

On top of that, the internet enable these kinds of people to find almost instant justification because they can find others of like proclivities at the speed of light.

There is not much that any of us can do about it. Speaking out against it is important, but will do little to convince people who have the ear of so many supporters to change the direction of their intents.

I totally agree with Killgore in regards to this point ” It’s been pretty much inevitable for a while now…”

Either the wackos are going to evntually burn out and fade out of the limelight or someone’s gonna feel their oats and hurt/kill someone (like what someone may have tried to do here on this story)…bad craziness, indeed.

413 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:34:04pm

re: #410 darthstar

Do childhood ‘fireworks experiments’ count? >>

(Don’t worry, they stopped us in time, and this was back in the days of corporeal punishment :p)

414 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:34:31pm

re: #409 bratwurst

NOW you have my dander up!

I said I’m sorry, dammit

415 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:34:39pm

re: #410 darthstar

I used to watch those bass fishing shows (and like to fish) and I’ve never severed a propane line…intentionally.

So you claim.

/

416 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:34:47pm

Once again the evil dick cheney sticks his kneck out for the more moderate of the two republicans in a race.

politico.com


Former Vice President Dick Cheney endorsed Kentucky Secretary of State Trey Grayson for U.S. Senate Wednesday, intervening in a hotly contested Republican primary for the second time this year.

Cheney, who also backed Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison’s challenge to Texas Gov. Rick Perry, boosted Grayson as the “real conservative” in his race against insurgent candidate Rand Paul.

‘I’m a lifelong conservative, and I can tell the real thing when I see it. I have looked at the records of both candidates in the race, and it is clear to me that Trey Grayson is right on the issues that matter – both on fiscal responsibility and on national security,” Cheney said in a statement.

He’s also come out in favor of overturning DADT and against a constitutional amendment to outlaw gay marriage. What a RINO.

417 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:35:34pm

re: #397 cliffster

A case of crack? Do you realize how much that will cost?

No, but at $2.25/bottle it would be about $27.00 for a case of 12.

Crackling Rose, you’re a store-bought woman
But you make me sing like a guitar hummin’…

418 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:35:41pm

re: #412 talon_262

Either the wackos are going to evntually burn out and fade out of the limelight or someone’s gonna feel their oats and hurt/kill someone (like what someone may have tried to do here on this story)…bad craziness, indeed.

When I say it’s going to run it’s course, I’m saying I think it’s going to get really nasty… this is not about to burn out.

419 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:35:41pm

re: #403 torrentprime

Denying, minimizing, and postulating setups or fake threats is dealing with it? Respectfully, I disagree.

Oh you are probably right, but not beyond a reasonable doubt… for that matter we have no proof that guy didn’t cut his own gas line. I don’t think he did, but I just wanna see proof before I hang someone.

420 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:36:38pm

re: #416 RogueOne

In fairness, he’s more a corporatist than a ‘conservative’, and bombs or violence are bad for the bottom line >>

421 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:37:08pm

re: #420 windsagio

In fairness, he’s more a corporatist than a ‘conservative’, and bombs or violence are bad for the bottom line >>

I disagree but that was still funny.

422 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:37:24pm

re: #419 brookly red

I’m sure its being investigated quite well, but implying he’d cut his own gas line, even in jest, is substantially over the line.

423 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:37:43pm

re: #418 Walter L. Newton

When I say it’s going to run it’s course, I’m saying I think it’s going to get really nasty… this is not about to burn out.

The crazies “burning out” is a best case scenario, but like you said, it’s unlikely to happen…someone will wind up getting hurt on all of this.

424 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:38:09pm

re: #421 RogueOne

heh, its in my genes to insult cheney, and if its necessary there’s no reason to be boring about it ;)

425 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:38:11pm

re: #422 windsagio

I’m sure its being investigated quite well, but implying he’d cut his own gas line, even in jest, is substantially over the line.

never been in a courtroom have you?

426 bratwurst  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:38:20pm

re: #414 cliffster

I said I’m sorry, dammit

Apology accepted…just never let it happen again.

427 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:38:21pm

re: #423 talon_262

The crazies “burning out” is a best case scenario, but like you said, it’s unlikely to happen…someone will wind up getting hurt on all of this.

That means we need National Gun Control.
////

428 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:39:04pm

re: #425 brookly red

Once or twice (I was wrongly accused of a crime by the police, which when you get down to it, probably explains alot about me).

This isn’t some springer-style divorce case tho’ :p

429 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:40:28pm

re: #400 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #404 darthstar

re: #407 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ahem…you got a problem with bass fishing?

430 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:40:47pm

I just finished watching last night’s Lost episode. They sure are moving the story along and wrapping things up. I hope the conclusion isn’t as simplistic as they’re making it out to be.

431 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:40:51pm

re: #428 windsagio

Once or twice (I was wrongly accused of a crime by the police, which when you get down to it, probably explains alot about me).

This isn’t some springer-style divorce case tho’ :p

again you make assumptions, some times things are not what they appear to be grasshopper… remember Tawnya Brawly ?

432 Soap_Man  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:40:55pm

And now, for some feel-good news:

Autistic Teen Picks First Two NCAA Rounds Perfectly

Here’s a heart-warmer for your Wednesday: Alex Hermann, an autistic 17-year-old from Chicago, picked perfectly the first two rounds of the NCAA tournament. The odds of doing that? One in 13,460,000—worse odds than winning the lottery twice. Hermann chose Northern Iowa over Kansas, Ohio over Georgetown, and Cornell over Wisconsin. Sadly for Hermann, he entered his bracket in the CBS pool without a prize attached. The odds of him completing a perfect bracket for the entire tournament are as high as one in one trillion.

And with that, I’m out. Everyone have a good day.

433 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:41:06pm

re: #408 The Sanity Inspector

Now ‘fess up: Who here besides me once thought that this song was by Neil Diamond?


I still think it is, with proof to the contrary before my face!

434 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:41:16pm

re: #429 Spare O’Lake

re: #404 darthstar

re: #407 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ahem…you got a problem with bass fishing?

I caught myself a nice Fender Jazz last week!

435 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:42:03pm

Later all. Hope we all survive long enough to use our new healthcare.

436 Decider  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:42:24pm

So I got bashed with I called Fox News a terrorist organization. Does this change your mind? The worse is yet to come.

437 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:42:53pm

This is the only Neil Diamond song I like—partly because he doesn’t sing it.

Youtube Video

438 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:42:57pm

re: #431 brookly red

That’s really not an appropriate comparison :p

And seriously, you’re accusing a sitting congressperson of cutting their own propane line in order to frame ‘the right’ (or whatever).

Sure it COULD happen, but I woudln’t go around making that kind of accusation, even as a joke.

439 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:43:47pm

re: #431 brookly red

again you make assumptions, some times things are not what they appear to be grasshopper… remember Tawnya Brawly ?

Now why would you bring her up?

thinking…
thinking…

440 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:43:50pm

re: #430 Killgore Trout

I just finished watching last night’s Lost episode. They sure are moving the story along and wrapping things up. I hope the conclusion isn’t as simplistic as they’re making it out to be.

(report from this morning)

Let me suggest something, the alternate time line we are seeing is not the idyllic little word as it appears to be, it’s actually the “world” which will experience what happens when the Island doesn’t exist anymore to contain the “evil.”

At the end of the episode, we see the man in black break the bottle, not remove the cork. It was his plan all along to release himself from the Island not by getting rid of Jacob, but by getting rid of the Island, aka… the Incident (the explosion).

Remember, at the beginning of the season, in the alternate timeline, we see the Island at the bottom of the ocean. What we haven’t seen yet, in the alternate time line, is what happens in a world where that “evil” is not contained.

We will…

441 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:44:07pm

re: #438 windsagio

That’s really not an appropriate comparison :p

And seriously, you’re accusing a sitting congressperson of cutting their own propane line in order to frame ‘the right’ (or whatever).

Sure it COULD happen, but I woudln’t go around making that kind of accusation, even as a joke.

Sitting congresspersons brother. Billy Carter ring a bell?

442 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:44:14pm

re: #431 brookly red

again you make assumptions, some times things are not what they appear to be grasshopper… remember Tawnya Brawly ?

Yes. Remember the number of actual police violence cases compared to the fake ones that make black extremist liberals look bad?

443 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:44:31pm

re: #436 Decider

So I got bashed with I called Fox News a terrorist organization. Does this change your mind? The worse is yet to come.

They’re not terrorists, they’re opportunistic cynics :D

444 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:45:03pm

re: #441 RogueOne

Sitting congresspersons brother. Billy Carter ring a bell?

do you believe this guy cut his own gas line? Let’s stick on point.

445 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:45:35pm

re: #434 WindUpBird

I caught myself a nice Fender Jazz last week!

That’s a keeper!

446 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:45:49pm

re: #442 torrentprime

Yes. Remember the number of actual police violence cases compared to the fake ones that make black extremist liberals look bad?

Black people never get killed by police!

never ever
never ever
never ever
never ever
never ever
never ever
never ever

447 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:45:52pm

re: #439 WindUpBird

Now why would you bring her up?

thinking…
thinking…

Well, it was only 23 years ago.

448 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:46:07pm

Watching DVR’d American Idol. Ellen Degeneres comment about one of the singers - “Well, the positive thing is, you didn’t fall down”. Ha! Ellen cracks me up.

449 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:46:28pm

re: #441 RogueOne

I’m not sure what naming 2 of your children ‘Marle’ and ‘Earl’ have to do with anything.

but yeah I was afraid it was gonna be that, I was just too lazy to go up top and make sure. Doesn’t matter significantly anyways. This line of argument (that it was a liberal plot) is a dry socket at best.

450 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:46:34pm

re: #445 Spare O’Lake

That’s a keeper!

If only I knew how to play it :(

451 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:46:39pm

re: #438 windsagio

That’s really not an appropriate comparison :p

And seriously, you’re accusing a sitting congressperson of cutting their own propane line in order to frame ‘the right’ (or whatever).

Sure it COULD happen, but I woudln’t go around making that kind of accusation, even as a joke.

well A. ” you are probably right, but not beyond a reasonable doubt… for that matter we have no proof that guy didn’t cut his own gas line. I don’t think he did, but I just wanna see proof before I hang someone.

I did not accuse anyone of any thing… and B. It was not a sitting congressperson in question, it was his brother… reading comprehension matters.

452 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:46:57pm

re: #436 Decider

So I got bashed with I called Fox News a terrorist organization. Does this change your mind? The worse is yet to come.

What kind of stupid shit are you spurting. In that case, the NYT is a terrorist organization for reporting on Hamas.

453 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:47:12pm

re: #444 WindUpBird

do you believe this guy cut his own gas line? Let’s stick on point.

No, the point was “sometimes things aren’t what they seem” and we don’t have the whole story yet.

454 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:47:26pm

re: #448 cliffster

Watching DVR’d American Idol. Ellen Degeneres comment about one of the singers - “Well, the positive thing is, you didn’t fall down”. Ha! Ellen cracks me up.

This is the worst season of American Idol since the beginning 9 years ago

455 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:47:35pm

re: #446 WindUpBird

Black people never get killed by police!

never ever
never ever
never ever
never ever
never ever
never ever
never ever

and there are no police black either.

456 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:47:43pm

re: #436 Decider

So I got bashed with I called Fox News a terrorist organization. Does this change your mind? The worse is yet to come.

you sucks at grammer

457 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:47:49pm

re: #447 darthstar

Well, it was only 23 years ago.

And she is black! And it is Al Sharpton! And he is black! Very important!

if you google her name, it’s actually kinda tough to find information on her. Someone named Red is VERY INTERESTED in that case 8-)

458 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:48:40pm

re: #439 WindUpBird

Now why would you bring her up?

thinking…
thinking…

cause I thought even you may have heard of her…

459 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:48:40pm

re: #451 brookly red

reading comprehension matters.

Yes, it does. Would that the wingnut who posted the address and encouraged people to drop by had shown some.

460 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:48:49pm

re: #453 RogueOne

No, the point was “sometimes things aren’t what they seem” and we don’t have the whole story yet.

I’ll tell you what IS what it seems:

Tea party activists posted the address of that guy’s house, inciting people to harrass him and his children.

That much is the God’s truth.

461 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:49:03pm

re: #429 Spare O’Lake

re: #404 darthstar

re: #407 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ahem…you got a problem with bass fishing?

Not at all. I’ve got nothing against mind numbing boredom.

462 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:49:21pm

re: #451 brookly red

even with the flub on the brother, saying something is a lib plot is a long distance from hanging somebody without trial.

At the very least, you’re changing a general accusation into a specific accusation. And also blaming the victim.

463 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:49:27pm

re: #449 windsagio

I’m not sure what naming 2 of your children ‘Marle’ and ‘Earl’ have to do with anything.

but yeah I was afraid it was gonna be that, I was just too lazy to go up top and make sure. Doesn’t matter significantly anyways. This line of argument (that it was a liberal plot) is a dry socket at best.

I was trying to remember what Hillary Clintons brother had done that I found so amusing but it was years ago and I’ve forgotten. I found this link which is pretty funny:

Hillary Clinton May Have to Hide Her Brothers
nationalledger.com


Billy Carter, registered foreign agent of the Libyan government and brother of President Jimmy, urinated in public at the Atlanta airport. Sam Houston Johnson, alcoholic and brother of President Lyndon, claimed he was virtually a hostage in the White House and was followed by the Secret Service when he went out. Donald Nixon, budding entrepreneur and brother of President Richard, used his fraternal connection in the late 1950s to secure a business loan.

You can choose your friends, but not your family. A number of politicians have found the axiom all too true.
464 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:49:42pm

re: #451 brookly red

well A. ” you are probably right, but not beyond a reasonable doubt… for that matter we have no proof that guy didn’t cut his own gas line. I don’t think he did, but I just wanna see proof before I hang someone.

I did not accuse anyone of any thing… and B. It was not a sitting congressperson in question, it was his brother… reading comprehension matters.

Do you agree with Tea Party activists inciting their followers to harass this man and his family?

465 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:49:44pm

re: #460 WindUpBird

I’ll tell you what IS what it seems:

Tea party activists posted the address of that guy’s house, inciting people to harrass him and his children.

That much is the God’s truth.

Well, it’s possible that the brother hacked the wingnut’s account, posted his own address, and then blamed the right. I’m not saying it’s likely or that I believe it, but I want to see evidence before I hang someone.

466 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:49:44pm

re: #453 RogueOne

No, the point was “sometimes things aren’t what they seem” and we don’t have the whole story yet.

adult supervision :)

467 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:50:05pm

re: #456 cliffster

you sucks at grammer

The speling reaks to.

468 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:50:13pm

re: #454 HoosierHoops

This is the worst season of American Idol since the beginning 9 years ago

Yeah, it’s pretty lame. There are a couple that I really like, don’t remember their names. But there’s no chemistry, personality.. it’s boring.

469 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:50:50pm

re: #465 torrentprime

Well, it’s possible that the brother hacked the wingnut’s account, posted his own address, and then blamed the right. I’m not saying it’s likely or that I believe it, but I want to see evidence before I hang someone.

Yes :D

470 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:51:32pm

re: #465 torrentprime

Well, it’s possible that the brother hacked the wingnut’s account, posted his own address, and then blamed the right. I’m not saying it’s likely or that I believe it, but I want to see evidence before I hang someone.

rerequoted because yeah, its yeah.

471 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:51:33pm

re: #468 cliffster

Yeah, it’s pretty lame. There are a couple that I really like, don’t remember their names. But there’s no chemistry, personality.. it’s boring.

Again, an event that would be greatly improved by wire obstacles and crew served weapon emplacements.

472 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:52:04pm

re: #429 Spare O’Lake

re: #404 darthstar

re: #407 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ahem…you got a problem with bass fishing?

As long as you bring plenty of cheap-ass American beer along, I’m all for watching my bobber float on the water…hook optional.

473 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:52:05pm

re: #460 WindUpBird

I’ll tell you what IS what it seems:

Tea party activists posted the address of that guy’s house, inciting people to harrass him and his children.

That much is the God’s truth.

Last week, we also knew for a fact that toyotas were dangerous and prone to accelerate when that poor old man on the freeway in CA couldn’t turn off his runaway vehicle. Sometimes things don’t end up like we thought. That’s why some here like to have a 48-hour rule.

474 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:52:21pm

re: #440 Walter L. Newton

I’m not crazy about the mystical element being the culmination of the story. I was hoping there would be some sort of sci-fi explanation like maybe Jacob and smokey are stranded time travelers or part of an alien race who could bend the laws of physics.
To have all this end with Jack and Sawyer replacing God and the devil to continue the same epic struggle for all of humanity just seems a little dull and cheap to me.

475 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:52:27pm

re: #464 WindUpBird

Do you agree with Tea Party activists inciting their followers to harass this man and his family?

no, sorry to disappoint you.

476 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:52:34pm

re: #471 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Again, an event that would be greatly improved by wire obstacles and crew served weapon emplacements.

American Gladiator Idol!

Sing! Now dodge this medicine ball! sing some more! This former wrestler will now batter you about the head and hurl you into a foam pit!

477 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:53:13pm

re: #465 torrentprime

Well, it’s possible that the brother hacked the wingnut’s account, posted his own address, and then blamed the right. I’m not saying it’s likely or that I believe it, but I want to see evidence before I hang someone.

Has anyone brought up that it might have actually been posted by devious garden gnomes? I mean, garden gnomes! Do I even need to go any further?

478 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:53:21pm

re: #476 WindUpBird

American Gladiator Idol!

Sing! Now dodge this medicine ball! sing some more! This former wrestler will now batter you about the head and hurl you into a foam pit!

Boring!
Landmines.
Polar bears.
Yeah.

479 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:53:25pm

re: #465 torrentprime

Well, it’s possible that the brother hacked the wingnut’s account, posted his own address, and then blamed the right. I’m not saying it’s likely or that I believe it, but I want to see evidence before I hang someone.

It’s also possible the brother hypnotized the wingnut into saying, “Oh, I posted the wrong address? Collateral damage” But it’s not probable.
:)

480 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:53:42pm

re: #465 torrentprime

Well, it’s possible that the brother hacked the wingnut’s account, posted his own address, and then blamed the right. I’m not saying it’s likely or that I believe it, but I want to see evidence before I hang someone.

That’s edging mighty close to black helicopter territory there…whether you believe this scenario is possible, the fact you put it out there says a lot (and it’s not all good).

481 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:53:47pm

re: #473 RogueOne

A good rule for that would be making sure that the countercase (in this case, that the guy cut his own line) is at least 1/1000 as likely as the main scenario.

482 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:54:12pm

re: #454 HoosierHoops

This is the worst season of American Idol since the beginning 9 years ago

I’ve never watched the show, except for one episode I watched with a new guy I was dating who loved it. I suffered through one episode. That was last…. January, I think? Was that season better or worse than now?

483 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:54:16pm

re: #473 RogueOne

Last week, we also knew for a fact that toyotas were dangerous and prone to accelerate when that poor old man on the freeway in CA couldn’t turn off his runaway vehicle. Sometimes things don’t end up like we thought. That’s why some here like to have a 48-hour rule.

dude, there’s a recall. The recall is real. That one story was false, (the PRius isn’t part of the recall IIRC) but the accelerator issue is not false.

484 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:54:16pm

re: #462 windsagio

even with the flub on the brother, saying something is a lib plot is a long distance from hanging somebody without trial.

At the very least, you’re changing a general accusation into a specific accusation. And also blaming the victim.

no I did neither, now get a life.

485 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:54:25pm

re: #478 Varek Raith

Boring!
Landmines.
Polar bears.
Yeah.

Ill tempered Sea Bass.

486 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:54:27pm

re: #480 talon_262

err, you realize he’s satirizing the people that said he cut his own propane line right? >>

487 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:54:37pm

re: #481 windsagio

A good rule for that would be making sure that the countercase (in this case, that the guy cut his own line) is at least 1/1000 as likely as the main scenario.

Yes :D

488 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:54:48pm

re: #461 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Not at all. I’ve got nothing against mind numbing boredom.

I’d rather sit in my boat for 3 hours on a quiet lake at dawn without even getting a nibble, than spend 10 minutes in city traffic.

489 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:55:11pm

re: #480 talon_262

That’s edging mighty close to black helicopter territory there…whether you believe this scenario is possible, the fact you put it out there says a lot (and it’s not all good).

there are not enough facepalms for this, man hahahaha

490 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:55:29pm

re: #484 brookly red

now now, no need to be angry :P

You said that the guy might have cut his own propane line. That is both a specific accusation and blaming the victim.

491 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:55:43pm

re: #488 Spare O’Lake

I’d rather sit in my boat for 3 hours on a quiet lake at dawn without even getting a nibble, than spend 10 minutes in city traffic.

This is why my commute is 6 minutes. I love driving. I hate traffic. :(

492 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:55:59pm

re: #481 windsagio

A good rule for that would be making sure that the countercase (in this case, that the guy cut his own line) is at least 1/1000 as likely as the main scenario.

I’m willing to believe that it was cut intentionally by someone other than the home owner or his family/friends. I’m not willing to make the jump into believing they were trying to blow up his home without some evidence.

493 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:56:12pm

re: #491 WindUpBird

Walking to work is the way to go, if you live close enough.

Or biking, but I hate bikes.

494 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:56:23pm

re: #482 torrentprime

I’ve never watched the show, except for one episode I watched with a new guy I was dating who loved it. I suffered through one episode. That was last… January, I think? Was that season better or worse than now?

How NOT to impress a lady

Make her watch a show she has never watched and has no interest in

Did this guy also insist you go out to dinner “Dutch” !?!?

495 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:56:30pm

re: #484 brookly red

no I did neither, now get a life.

You precisely were blaming the victim.

“That woman beat herself up!”

496 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:56:34pm

re: #488 Spare O’Lake

I’d rather sit in my boat for 3 hours on a quiet lake at dawn without even getting a nibble, than spend 10 minutes in city traffic.

I’d rather sleep in than drag my ass out of bed at the butt crack of dawn for a fish.

497 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:56:40pm

re: #120 LudwigVanQuixote

There are leftwing freaks. No two ways. However, there are nut enough of them to make a tea party

That sucks for me, ‘cause I like tea. And I will not drink it with Adam’s Apple Coulter.

Do you think we have enough for an Alinsky Book Club?

498 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:56:44pm

re: #473 RogueOne

Last week, we also knew for a fact that toyotas were dangerous and prone to accelerate when that poor old man on the freeway in CA couldn’t turn off his runaway vehicle. Sometimes things don’t end up like we thought. That’s why some here like to have a 48-hour rule.

Except that the wingnut who posted the address admitted to it.
And stood by his mistake!

Teabagger Tries To Harass Congressman’s House, Lists Wrong Address, Stands By His ‘Journalism’
C’mon dude.

499 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:57:41pm

re: #450 WindUpBird

If only I knew how to play it :(

Ask Geddy.

500 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:57:44pm

re: #492 RogueOne

I’ve gotta say, if we aren’t allowed to speculate and discuss these things, there’s no blog. Or at least no blog discussion.

501 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:57:50pm

re: #495 WindUpBird

You precisely were blaming the victim.

“That woman beat herself up!”

speaking of beating up one’s self, does the term cut you loses me anything to you?

502 cliffster  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:58:08pm

re: #471 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Again, an event that would be greatly improved by wire obstacles and crew served weapon emplacements.

Ok, I remember. It was Crystal Bowersox. What the hell kind of last name is that, but shit can that girl sing. I want to have her baby.

503 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:58:32pm

Ugh stuff.

On the other hand, you know what’s great about living in So Cal? Going to the local Mexican market and getting fresh carne asada, carnitas, tortillas, guac and pico. Yum.

504 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:58:45pm

re: #498 torrentprime

Except that the wingnut who posted the address admitted to it.
And stood by his mistake!

Teabagger Tries To Harass Congressman’s House, Lists Wrong Address, Stands By His ‘Journalism’
C’mon dude.

Yep…and the same asshole expressed shock, SHOCK! that someone would actually go there and cut the propane line.

505 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:59:35pm

re: #502 cliffster

Ok, I remember. It was Crystal Bowersox. What the hell kind of last name is that, but shit can that girl sing. I want to have her baby.

Hair like that will get her entagled in the wire.

506 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:59:36pm

re: #494 sattv4u2

How NOT to impress a lady

Make her watch a show she has never watched and has no interest in

Did this guy also insist you go out to dinner “Dutch” !?!?

(Wrong team, but ) well, we did halfsies dinner. I never know which guy is supposed to pick up the tab on first dates, so I’ve always split the tab.

507 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:59:39pm

re: #503 Stanley Sea

Don’t worry, I’m going out in about 2 minutes to get some sun and food.

Then they can rattle on about lib false flag plots for a few hours without being bothered >>


//well bothered by me anyways.

508 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:59:47pm

re: #482 torrentprime

I’ve never watched the show, except for one episode I watched with a new guy I was dating who loved it. I suffered through one episode. That was last… January, I think? Was that season better or worse than now?

You’re a girl? *straightening Tie*
Hello..
/Just teasing you.. I haven’t heard a great singer from American Idol since Carrie Underwood…

509 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:01:22pm

re: #506 torrentprime

(Wrong team, but ) well, we did halfsies dinner. I never know which guy is supposed to pick up the tab on first dates, so I’ve always split the tab.

I would think it’s the asker, not the askee!

510 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:01:34pm

re: #498 torrentprime

re: #483 WindUpBird

You can’t seriously be arguing that the statement “sometimes things don’t turn out like they seem” is somehow wrong? That’s the only thing I’ve been arguing.

511 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:01:55pm

re: #508 HoosierHoops

You’re a girl? *straightening Tie*
Hello..
/Just teasing you.. I haven’t heard a great singer from American Idol since Carrie Underwood…

Or before that, now that you mention it.

512 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:02:00pm

re: #474 Killgore Trout

I’m not crazy about the mystical element being the culmination of the story. I was hoping there would be some sort of sci-fi explanation like maybe Jacob and smokey are stranded time travelers or part of an alien race who could bend the laws of physics.
To have all this end with Jack and Sawyer replacing God and the devil to continue the same epic struggle for all of humanity just seems a little dull and cheap to me.

Some observations, from watching the episode last night and browsing the popular LOST blogs… just some things to think about.

1) This is not God and the Devil. Those metaphors were used for Richard’s benefit, it was 1867, he was a poor Spanish peasant, the religious talk was the “hook” needed to manipulate him. This is not God and Satan.

2) It will be “science” that explains all, for those of us who want the sci-fi answer, for those who want the mysticism, it will be there too. This show has always had a the science/supernatural duality going on.

3) The producers once said “look to the stars” for an answer. Talk out in the blogosphere after last nights episode is that this Island is a “cork” a gatekeeper for a wormhole. What’s at the other end of that wormhole… that’s the “sickness.” The physics all point to wormholes, the Casimir Effect etc.

4) Bonus point… check EW site later today, the producers had a podcast going online… and they will announce the title of the final episode.

513 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:02:02pm

re: #492 RogueOne

Hey Rogue—I think they were just going for threatening vandalism, but I noted a comment above about the risks. Under the right conditions (low humidity) a cut gas line can self-ignite via static built up by free-flow. What you would get is a fairly impressive flame front where the fuel/air mixture is right. NFPA sells their literature, so you won’t find much online.

514 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:02:02pm

re: #504 darthstar

Yep…and the same asshole expressed shock, SHOCK! that someone would actually go there and cut the propane line.

actually if someone really wanted to do harm they would turn the line off long enough for the pilot light to go out & then turn it back on… seems fishy to me.

515 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:02:31pm

re: #496 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I’d rather sleep in than drag my ass out of bed at the butt crack of dawn for a fish.

No problem, more for me.
BTW, there are few things more exciting than having a big old bucketmouth come out of the water to smash your surface lure.
(e.g. see my avatar)

516 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:03:40pm

re: #510 RogueOne

re: #483 WindUpBird

You can’t seriously be arguing that the statement “sometimes things don’t turn out like they seem” is somehow wrong? That’s the only thing I’ve been arguing.

Somehow, “let’s not rush into things” is not the message I’m getting. “You can’t prove it was the right even in the light of evidence” is more the vibe I’m getting. YMMV.

517 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:03:40pm

re: #510 RogueOne

You’ve been arguing it to an irrational end, that’s kinda the problem >

and I am…

Youtube Video

518 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:04:03pm

re: #514 brookly red

actually if someone really wanted to do harm they would turn the line off long enough for the pilot light to go out & then turn it back on… seems fishy to me.

Unless, of course, they’re dumb…
:)

519 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:04:09pm

re: #512 Walter L. Newton

4) Bonus point… check EW site later today, the producers had a podcast going online… and they will announce the title of the final episode.

May I suggest

“FOUND”!?!?!

520 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:04:30pm

re: #515 Spare O’Lake


(e.g. see my avatar)

And here I thought you just loved listening to Wham!
/

Youtube Video

521 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:04:31pm

re: #499 Spare O’Lake

Ask Geddy.

“Could you teach me the beginning of Cygnus X-1?”

“What? You say you want me off your property or you’re calling the cops?”

522 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:04:37pm

re: #518 Varek Raith

Unless, of course, they’re dumb…
:)

well yes there is that too…

523 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:05:41pm

re: #513 Decatur Deb

Hey Rogue—I think they were just going for threatening vandalism, but I noted a comment above about the risks. Under the right conditions (low humidity) a cut gas line can self-ignite via static built up by free-flow. What you would get is a fairly impressive flame front where the fuel/air mixture is right. NFPA sells their literature, so you won’t find much online.

True. In this state, which I assume is fairly standard, tanks have to have a blowback device on them at the valve. It keeps them from exploding.

524 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:05:50pm

re: #522 brookly red

well yes there is that too…

Or, they work for Comcast. They’re real good at hitting gas lines!

/Obligatory Comcast dis.

;)

525 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:05:53pm

re: #509 sattv4u2

I would think it’s the asker, not the askee!

Dirty little secret: when guys date guys, we tend to focus on the after more than the dinner, even worse than when a guy takes a girl out. Kicking in evenly to the dinner keeps thing moving faster; “who asked who” takes too long. :)

526 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:06:23pm

re: #523 RogueOne

True. In this state, which I assume is fairly standard, tanks have to have a blowback device on them at the valve. It keeps them from exploding.

More burdensome government regulation. SOCIALISM!

527 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:07:11pm

re: #524 Varek Raith

Or, they work for Comcast. They’re real good at hitting gas lines!

/Obligatory Comcast dis.

;)

to a New Yorker the scariest thing is to see a back-hoe on your block…

528 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:07:35pm

re: #516 torrentprime

Somehow, “let’s not rush into things” is not the message I’m getting. “You can’t prove it was the right even in the light of evidence” is more the vibe I’m getting. YMMV.

Personally I’m one to ignore the 48-hour rule, that’s why I said “some” and not “I”. Now if it comes to a trial then I’m going to want to see some evidence other than a hunch.

529 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:08:04pm

re: #523 RogueOne

True. In this state, which I assume is fairly standard, tanks have to have a blowback device on them at the valve. It keeps them from exploding.

Yeah—anything else would be a code no-go, except for portable tanks (BBQ). Do we even know what was there? The stunt is still far into “not recommended” territory, but someone will point that out to them.

530 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:08:07pm

re: #516 torrentprime

Somehow, “let’s not rush into things” is not the message I’m getting. “You can’t prove it was the right even in the light of evidence” is more the vibe I’m getting. YMMV.

I agree with this sentiment!

I mean, how hard is it to say “hey, some of these maniacs calling Obama the N-word and waving crazy signs, maybe it’s possible aftre being give a call to action, one of them is capable of doing something nasty to a dude’s property?”

531 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:08:09pm

re: #515 Spare O’Lake

No problem, more for me.
BTW, there are few things more exciting than having a big old bucketmouth come out of the water to smash your surface lure.
(e.g. see my avatar)

Ever been the first gaijin to walk in order a meal in a yakuza owned restaurant?

532 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:08:16pm

re: #510 RogueOne

re: #483 WindUpBird

You can’t seriously be arguing that the statement “sometimes things don’t turn out like they seem” is somehow wrong? That’s the only thing I’ve been arguing.

Arguing with someone who has a closed mind is like trying to open a safe by banging your head against the door.

533 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:08:53pm

re: #512 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I’ll reserve judgment. They might pull out a decent end to the series I’m just preparing to be disappointed but it is fun watching them wind things up.

534 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:09:07pm

re: #531 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ever been the first gaijin to walk in order a meal in a yakuza owned restaurant?

Sounds fun!
:P

535 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:09:15pm

re: #532 Spare O’Lake

Arguing with someone who has a closed mind is like trying to open a safe by banging your head against the door.

You’re supposed to bang their head against the safe.

536 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:10:08pm

re: #534 Varek Raith

Sounds fun!
:P

Sounds like “Kill Bill”.

537 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:10:27pm

re: #536 Decatur Deb

Sounds like “Kill Bill”.

Hence the fun!
:)

538 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:10:27pm

re: #534 Varek Raith

Sounds fun!
:P

Looking back, I realize know they were saying something like “What the fuck is this crazy mother fucker doing in here?” the first time I was there.

Turned out to be some nice guys really.

539 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:10:33pm

re: #486 windsagio

err, you realize he’s satirizing the people that said he cut his own propane line right? >>

re: #489 WindUpBird

there are not enough facepalms for this, man hahahaha

Apparently, my sarcasm meter was on the fritz, as I am posting from work…my bad.

540 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:10:48pm

re: #535 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You’re supposed to bang their head against the safe.

till they tell you the combination… sheesh.

541 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:11:58pm

re: #533 Killgore Trout

Ok, I’ll reserve judgment. They might pull out a decent end to the series I’m just preparing to be disappointed but it is fun watching them wind things up.

Yes it is… that’s how I am watching this season… going along for the ride… there is no way the producers are going to please 14 million fans, after six years of presenting us with multiple levels of mystery. Even the producers have admitted that they will not be able to answer everything, some things are just part of the mythos.

Oh… hi.

542 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:12:16pm

re: #531 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ever been the first gaijin to walk in order a meal in a yakuza owned restaurant?

No, but I did sleep at Holiday Inn Express last night.

543 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:12:30pm

re: #531 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ever been the first gaijin to walk in order a meal in a yakuza owned restaurant?

depends on who you walk in with…

544 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:12:41pm

re: #542 Spare O’Lake

No, but I did sleep at Holiday Inn Express last night.

Same difference.

545 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:13:15pm

re: #535 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You’re supposed to bang their head against the safe.

Damn! NOW they tell me!

546 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:13:47pm

re: #528 RogueOne

Personally I’m one to ignore the 48-hour rule, that’s why I said “some” and not “I”. Now if it comes to a trial then I’m going to want to see some evidence other than a hunch.

Oh, of course, hunches aren’t evidence.

But I think it’s more likely that the congressman’s brother is secretly a reptile, than he sabotaged his own gas line, risking a felony, to frame a bunch of nobody wingnuts. ;-)

547 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:14:28pm

re: #532 Spare O’Lake

Arguing with someone who has a closed mind is like trying to open a safe by banging your head against the door.

You think I have a closed mind for suggesting it is VERY UNLIKELY that the guy sabotaged his own gas line?

Really?

You’re actually saying that?

548 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:14:29pm
549 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:14:31pm

re: #543 brookly red

depends on who you walk in with…

Alone. “Hey look, a noodle shop. Only a couple guys in long sleeved shirts in one of the back booths and no long line. Cool!”

550 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:15:18pm

re: #546 WindUpBird

Oh, of course, hunches aren’t evidence.

But I think it’s more likely that the congressman’s brother is secretly a reptile, than he sabotaged his own gas line, risking a felony, to frame a bunch of nobody wingnuts. ;-)

I don’t put any act of stupidity beyond the reach of my fellow citizens.

551 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:15:28pm

re: #549 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Alone. “Hey look, a noodle shop. Only a couple guys in long sleeved shirts in one of the back booths and no long line. Cool!”

Yeah, that would’ve been my thought process as well.
:)

552 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:16:12pm

re: #492 RogueOne

I’m willing to believe that it was cut intentionally by someone other than the home owner or his family/friends. I’m not willing to make the jump into believing they were trying to blow up his home without some evidence.

I think it was a threat, not an attempt to blow up his house.


I actually never claimed they were trying to blow up his house!

553 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:16:57pm

re: #550 RogueOne

I don’t put any act of stupidity beyond the reach of my fellow citizens.

Which is more likely?

He sabotaged his own gas line?


Or someone else did it, after his address was posted on the internet, inciting extremely angry people?

554 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:17:21pm

re: #552 WindUpBird

I think it was a threat, not an attempt to blow up his house.

I actually never claimed they were trying to blow up his house!

/or maybe he should have paid the gas bill…

555 Lidane  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:18:02pm

Another bit of OT, but this one is funny, IMO. Yesterday, Scott Brown sent out a fundraising letter concerned with the possibility of Rachel Maddow running against him for his Senate seat.

For her part, Rachel Maddow thought it was hilarious and addressed it on her show last night:

maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com

Pay attention to the captions as she’s talking. They’re pretty funny.

556 Kragar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:19:12pm

re: #553 WindUpBird

Which is more likely?

He sabotaged his own gas line?


Or someone else did it, after his address was posted on the internet, inciting extremely angry people?

Or mischievous garden gnomes?

557 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:19:24pm

re: #553 WindUpBird

Which is more likely?

He sabotaged his own gas line?

Or someone else did it, after his address was posted on the internet, inciting extremely angry people?

so why exactly are all these people so angry, anyway?

558 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:20:03pm

re: #555 Lidane

Another bit of OT, but this one is funny, IMO. Yesterday, Scott Brown sent out a fundraising letter concerned with the possibility of Rachel Maddow running against him for his Senate seat.

For her part, Rachel Maddow thought it was hilarious and addressed it on her show last night:

[Link: maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com…]

Pay attention to the captions as she’s talking. They’re pretty funny.


Dang.. I thought it was the people’s seat

559 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:20:14pm

re: #547 WindUpBird

You think I have a closed mind for suggesting it is VERY UNLIKELY that the guy sabotaged his own gas line?

Really?

You’re actually saying that?

You say “verys” and he says “maybes”
You both start whining like a couple of babies,
Verys, maybes, whining, babies…
Let’s call the whole thing off.
(Sorry Fred)

560 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:20:49pm

re: #556 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Or mischievous garden gnomes?

gremlins! fuk the political correctness!

561 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:21:54pm

re: #557 brookly red

so why exactly are all these people so angry, anyway?

Because Rush and Beck lied to them, extensively and repeatedly.

This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions, etc.

562 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:22:12pm

re: #510 RogueOne

re: #483 WindUpBird

You can’t seriously be arguing that the statement “sometimes things don’t turn out like they seem” is somehow wrong? That’s the only thing I’ve been arguing.

We agree there.

But if I were to rate it, i’d say it’s many times more likely that his gas line was cut by a vandal, or even by some happenstance, like an error by a utility worker, than it was by himself.


Here is specifically the core of what I object to:

again you make assumptions, some times things are not what they appear to be grasshopper… remember Tawnya Brawly ?

This implies that he sabotaged the line himself. There’s no other way to read this.

Just so we’re crystal clear of exactly what I’m objecting to. Not “things aren’t always what they seem.” more “hey, remember that black chick who lied about her crime? Maybe it’s like that!”

563 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:22:23pm

re: #557 brookly red

so why exactly are all these people so angry, anyway?

Because they’re big babies who need to get over themselves and accept the fact that they lost?

564 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:22:41pm

re: #556 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Or mischievous garden gnomes?

You gotta watch out for those things. They’ll come through your toilet.

565 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:23:01pm

re: #561 torrentprime

Because Rush and Beck lied to them, extensively and repeatedly.

This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions, etc.

oh, all these people can’t think for them selves… got it.

566 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:23:28pm

re: #52 SpaceJesus

conservative blogs are calling for the smashing of windows

[Link: sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com…]

Reading far into your link kept me busy for a half-hour or so. (Pinson AL is a couple hours north of here, near my daughter’s town.) That’s why I read the SPLC Intelligence like a weather report.

567 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:23:52pm

I voted for McCain. He lost. Life goes on. Simple as that.

568 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:24:07pm

re: #563 Varek Raith

Because they’re big babies who need to get over themselves and accept the fact that they lost?

some how I don’t think that logic is going to calm them down…

569 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:24:19pm

re: #557 brookly red

so why exactly are all these people so angry, anyway?

Because they’ve been fed apocalyptic and insane rhetoric about how the President is a manchurian candidate, that he’s a Marxist, that the end of America is near, that health care reform willr esult in the government murdering their parents?


Stupid and ignorant and scared people are very VERY easy to manipulate.

570 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:24:24pm

re: #564 WindUpBird

You gotta watch out for those things. They’ll come through your toilet.

Really?
//

571 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:24:41pm

I have to run folks. Everyone enjoy their evening, Stay safe out there, etc., etc.

572 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:25:00pm

re: #568 brookly red

some how I don’t think that logic is going to calm them down…

a couple of them going on trial for attempted murder might!

We’ll see how this investigation goes…

573 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:25:07pm

re: #567 Varek Raith

I voted for McCain. He lost. Life goes on. Simple as that.

I want to go to a sign shop, see if they’ll make me a bumper sticker that states

“Don’t blame me, I voted for the old fuck!”

574 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:25:43pm

re: #568 brookly red

some how I don’t think that logic is going to calm them down…

Heh, IMO, the TeaPartiers are beyond any logic…

575 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:25:44pm

Why do I get the feeling that someone logs off LGF and goes somewhere else to say, “hahahah! Got those libs in a tizzy when I started throwing out doubt about the tea partier’s being bad guys”

Otherwise, I’d have to think that people will dismiss anything based on partisanship.re: #569 WindUpBird

Because they’ve been fed apocalyptic and insane rhetoric about how the President is a manchurian candidate, that he’s a Marxist, that the end of America is near, that health care reform willr esult in the government murdering their parents?

Stupid and ignorant and scared people are very VERY easy to manipulate.

Especially when they have defenders, or cast doubters.

576 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:26:05pm

re: #569 WindUpBird

Because they’ve been fed apocalyptic and insane rhetoric about how the President is a manchurian candidate, that he’s a Marxist, that the end of America is near, that health care reform willr esult in the government murdering their parents?

Stupid and ignorant and scared people are very VERY easy to manipulate.

but yet you fail to convince me…

577 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:26:10pm

re: #565 brookly red

oh, all these people can’t think for them selves… got it.

You said it, not me…

578 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:26:33pm

re: #563 Varek Raith

Because they’re big babies who need to get over themselves and accept the fact that they lost?

Sometimes I wonder if the Dems have accepted the fact that they won!

579 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:27:13pm

re: #578 Spare O’Lake

Sometimes I wonder if the Dems have accepted the fact that they won!

Until this week, I wasn’t sure we had.

580 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:27:16pm

re: #565 brookly red

oh, all these people can’t think for them selves… got it.

Some of them cannot, you are absolutely correct. :)

When lies and apocalyptic are repeated as truth by the fringe right wing, every single day, and Charles Johnson documents those lies and that apocalyptic rhetoric every single day, what other evidence do you need?

581 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:27:21pm

re: #576 brookly red

but yet you fail to convince me…

Which of these

the President is a manchurian candidate, that he’s a Marxist, that the end of America is near, that health care reform willr esult[sic] in the government murdering their parents?


do you agree with?

582 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:27:23pm

re: #575 Stanley Sea

Why do I get the feeling that someone logs off LGF and goes somewhere else to say, “hahahah! Got those libs in a tizzy when I started throwing out doubt about the tea partier’s being bad guys”

Paranoid much?

Where they would “go” and be welcomed with that is one of the stalker blogs, and if they were found there, they wouldn’t be found here any longer!

583 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:27:29pm

re: #577 torrentprime

You said it, not me…

well go ahead ignore & belittle… what could go wrong?

584 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:28:20pm

re: #576 brookly red

but yet you fail to convince me…

You’re not a tea partier!


So, I’ll ask again: When did the Democratic Party move away from your values?

585 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:28:53pm

re: #575 Stanley Sea

Especially when they have defenders, or cast doubters.

What is a “cast doubter”?
Is it a kind of fishing lure?

586 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:29:36pm

re: #582 sattv4u2


Why do I get the feeling that someone logs off LGF and goes somewhere else to say, “hahahah! Got those libs in a tizzy when I started throwing out doubt about the tea partier’s being bad guys”

Paranoid much?

Where they would “go” and be welcomed with that is one of the stalker blogs, and if they were found there, they wouldn’t be found here any longer!

Nah, I’m not paranoid, I couldn’t give a shit. I’m not suggesting stalkerblog either, no way.

BUT, it really bugs me that people pretty much defend, or like to argue about bad stuff based on partisanship.

I’ll just hush and watch.

587 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:29:55pm

re: #585 Spare O’Lake

What is a “cast doubter”?
Is it a kind of fishing lure?

Someone who thinks “Lawrence of Arabia” was CGI.

588 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:30:03pm

re: #16 Stanley Sea

Sarah Palin is gonna be in trouble for those cross hairs on people. Telling her folks to take aim.

Pay it no mind. It’s a generally accepted maxim for zeroing in on your opponent in an argument. Recall how our own drcordell would have liked to disembowel those blond Fox news talking heads. As simple as that. Disagree?

589 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:30:03pm

re: #575 Stanley Sea

Why do I get the feeling that someone logs off LGF and goes somewhere else to say, “hahahah! Got those libs in a tizzy when I started throwing out doubt about the tea partier’s being bad guys”

[snip]

I don’t log off… in that way, if you check the users log, you get the impression that I am just lurking around, when I am really cavorting with a Illuminati rugby team on a conspiracy forum.

590 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:30:27pm

re: #585 Spare O’Lake

What is a “cast doubter”?
Is it a kind of fishing lure?

It’s a spinner lure

591 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:30:31pm

re: #584 WindUpBird

You’re not a tea partier!

So, I’ll ask again: When did the Democratic Party move away from your values?

it was around the time they started raising taxes for BS programs… I think LBJ was in the White House.

592 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:30:40pm

re: #583 brookly red

well go ahead ignore & belittle… what could go wrong?

Besides the GOP’s electoral prospects for the next 5 cycles or so? And the complete halt of conservative ideology or participation in the American government? Outcomes like that?
Turning a blind eye to and hint/accuse/”asking questions” about victims harming themselves doesn’t help avoid the above possibilities. They give cover to the crazies and give credence to those on the left that will blame the sane right for doing nothing. Either way, the right loses. The teeny part of a Republican still inside me doesn’t really want that to happen. You?

593 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:30:59pm

re: #585 Spare O’Lake

What is a “cast doubter”?
Is it a kind of fishing lure?

Indeed. You see, it causes a chemical reaction in the fishe’s brain that causes it to doubt its existence. Then, filled with grief, offs itself on your fishing hook.

*Cast Doubter, brought to you by Dark Side Ltd.*

594 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:31:00pm

re: #578 Spare O’Lake

Sometimes I wonder if the Dems have accepted the fact that they won!

Until Health Care Reform passed, I would have agreed with you. After HRC, I think they’ve actually figured out they’re in power ;-)

595 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:31:06pm

Okay…this is kind of spooky…someone compared Glenn Beck’s style of speaking to that of the Joker from Batman.
Youtube Video

596 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:31:19pm

re: #584 WindUpBird

You’re not a tea partier!


So, I’ll ask again: When did the Democratic Party move away from your values?

You didn’t ask me, but I’ll chime in

When they moved away from the JFK model of governance

597 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:31:51pm

re: #592 torrentprime

Besides the GOP’s electoral prospects for the next 5 cycles or so? And the complete halt of conservative ideology or participation in the American government? Outcomes like that?
Turning a blind eye to and hint/accuse/”asking questions” about victims harming themselves doesn’t help avoid the above possibilities. They give cover to the crazies and give credence to those on the left that will blame the sane right for doing nothing. Either way, the right loses. The teeny part of a Republican still inside me doesn’t really want that to happen. You?

I just read the writing on the wall, and it ain’t too pretty.

598 bratwurst  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:32:51pm

re: #578 Spare O’Lake

Sometimes I wonder if the Dems have accepted the fact that they won!

Upding for truth.

599 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:33:02pm

re: #586 Stanley Sea

Nah, I’m not paranoid, I couldn’t give a shit

yet there you were,
Why do I get the feeling that someone logs off LGF and goes somewhere else to say, “hahahah! Got those libs in a tizzy when I started throwing out doubt about the tea partier’s being bad guys”
when that wasn’t even close to being a topic here!

600 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:33:18pm

re: #590 HoosierHoops

It’s a spinner lure

Brilliant! I guess that’s better than a stink-bait…

601 jvic  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:34:14pm

re: #565 brookly red

oh, all these people can’t think for them selves… got it.

I’d be less hard on them if I agreed with that. I’d tend to feel sorry for them.

But IMO better terms that ‘can’t’ are ‘won’t’ or ‘don’t want to’ or ‘refuse to’.

602 avanti  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:34:27pm

re: #589 Walter L. Newton

I don’t log off… in that way, if you check the users log, you get the impression that I am just lurking around, when I am really cavorting with a Illuminati rugby team on a conspiracy forum.

Walter, got the meteorite collection from you today and was VERY pleased. Like the Studebaker brothers said “Always give more than you promised”, I was pleasantly surprised. I was expecting pebbles, and got rocks, thanks.

603 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:34:29pm

re: #584 WindUpBird

re: #596 sattv4u2

re: #591 brookly red

The question is simplistic. The Dems are constantly moving towards and away from my values—often at the same time. We are a whirlpool, not a firehose.

604 laZardo  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:34:36pm

re: #592 torrentprime

Technically speaking, America’s “right” is the rest of the developed world’s “far right.” What’s needed is a proper “left,” and the center can become the new right in time.

/6:30 AM, at internet cafe before bus shows up for college trip.

605 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:34:45pm

re: #600 Spare O’Lake

Brilliant! I guess that’s better than a stink-bait…

well I usually just throw some bread in the water & then a stick of Vulacn 40…

it’s all about ROI…

606 Gus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:35:01pm
607 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:35:03pm

re: #591 brookly red

it was around the time they started raising taxes for BS programs… I think LBJ was in the White House.


In the early 1960s, the highest marginal income tax rate was a stunning 91 percent. That top rate fell to 70 percent after the Kennedy-Johnson tax cuts and remained there until 1981. Then Ronald Reagan slashed it to 50 percent and ultimately to 28 percent after the 1986 Tax Reform Act.


From AEI, for god’s sake.

Those damn ever-increasing tax rates.

608 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:36:04pm

re: #603 Decatur Deb

re: #596 sattv4u2

re: #591 brookly red

The question is simplistic. The Dems are constantly moving towards and away from my values—often at the same time. We are a whirlpool, not a firehose.

Maddening, isn’t it?

I’m in the same boat. Every time a Repub does something admirable along comes another who takes asshattery to another level

609 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:36:10pm

re: #591 brookly red

it was around the time they started raising taxes for BS programs… I think LBJ was in the White House.

You’ve been disaffected with the Democratic Party for 45 years and are still registered as a Democrat?

610 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:36:34pm

Gotta run.
Have fun.

611 laZardo  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:36:49pm

re: #610 Spare O’Lake

Gotta run.
Have fun.

Toodles.

612 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:37:03pm

re: #608 sattv4u2

Maddening, isn’t it?

I’m in the same boat. Every time a Repub does something admirable along comes another who takes asshattery to another level

well we could just throw them all out, no? care for a spot of tea? ;)

613 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:37:18pm

re: #606 Gus 802

OT

Robert Culp, ‘I Spy’ Star, Has Died

RIP ,, decent actor, he

614 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:38:00pm

re: #608 sattv4u2

Maddening, isn’t it?

I’m in the same boat. Every time a Repub does something admirable along comes another who takes asshattery to another level

That’s why we’re here, instead of wrapping clever haiku around bricks.

615 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:38:00pm

re: #588 Silvergirl

Pay it no mind. It’s a generally accepted maxim for zeroing in on your opponent in an argument. Recall how our own drcordell would have liked to disembowel those blond Fox news talking heads. As simple as that. Disagree?

yeah, I think the crosshairs are not a thing to get worried about.


I wouldn’t want to wish harm on the barbie dolls on Fox, I would find it hilarious if they actually were forced to become real journalists, doing work in the field and reporting on location from places that are not air-conditioned studios :D

616 Gus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:38:22pm

re: #613 sattv4u2

RIP ,, decent actor, he

Yeah, he was definitely a fixture.

617 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:38:41pm

re: #596 sattv4u2

You didn’t ask me, but I’ll chime in

When they moved away from the JFK model of governance

which was? Are you just referring to his hawkishness?

618 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:39:04pm

re: #609 Jeff In Ohio

You’ve been disaffected with the Democratic Party for 45 years and are still registered as a Democrat?

yes, I live in NYC want to vote in local primaries…

619 Qabal  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:39:14pm

OT: An open letter to conservatives..

tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com

620 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:39:48pm

re: #614 Decatur Deb

That’s why we’re here, instead of wrapping clever haiku around bricks.

I’m only here for the fruitcups, the babes, and until I’m alone at work late at night I can’t watch free intertoobie porn!

621 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:39:48pm

re: #609 Jeff In Ohio

You’ve been disaffected with the Democratic Party for 45 years and are still registered as a Democrat?

Not to derail, but I’ve been disaffected with the Repubs for about 5 or so years now and am still registered GOP. I think it’s because I enjoy when the Huckster calls me about our pro-abortion president and I receive billets doux from Michele Bachmann like the one I posted yesterday. They’re frankly a lot more fun than the boring “facts and logic” stuff I get from the DCCC.

622 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:39:51pm

re: #600 Spare O’Lake

Brilliant! I guess that’s better than a stink-bait…

We fisherman have to stick together..
Have you ever tried Leeches to catch Walleye?
It’s like a drug to them…

623 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:40:11pm

re: #618 brookly red

yes, I live in NYC want to vote in local primaries…

Gotcha.

624 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:40:50pm

re: #603 Decatur Deb

re: #596 sattv4u2

re: #591 brookly red

The question is simplistic. The Dems are constantly moving towards and away from my values—often at the same time. We are a whirlpool, not a firehose.

I asked that question because that was brookly red’s exact words. He said those words, I asked him when that happened. I know it’s a simplistic question, but I was only responding to his premise.

625 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:41:06pm

re: #599 sattv4u2

Dude, seeing people more or less make excuses leads me to think they are just doing it for fun. In my sweet little world I thought agreement would be made that, yeah this is bad stuff.

Sorry to offend the thread!

626 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:41:34pm

re: #609 Jeff In Ohio

You’ve been disaffected with the Democratic Party for 45 years and are still registered as a Democrat?

besides… I do believe if I wait long enough they will actually keep their promises.

627 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:41:39pm

re: #617 WindUpBird

which was? Are you just referring to his hawkishness?

If by “hawkishness” you mean a strong defense, sure
I’m more referring to his economic and domestic policies

628 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:41:58pm

re: #619 Qabal

That’s very good.

629 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:42:06pm

re: #606 Gus 802

OT

Robert Culp, ‘I Spy’ Star, Has Died

Loved him in I Spy (Bill Cosby, too) and The Greatest American Hero…damn, we’re getting old.

630 palomino  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:42:18pm

re: #195 brookly red

*sigh* this may be a long hot summer this year…

Unfortunately the summer that comes to mind is 1968.

Hopefully we can avoid repeating that.

631 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:42:52pm

re: #591 brookly red

it was around the time they started raising taxes for BS programs… I think LBJ was in the White House.

So you left the Democratic party during LBJ! I guessed right. :)

632 freetoken  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:43:06pm

re: #606 Gus 802

Couldn’t find the theme music to I Spy. The composer is listed as Earle Hagen, who is noted for some well known theme pieces.

633 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:43:38pm

re: #627 sattv4u2

If by “hawkishness” you mean a strong defense, sure
I’m more referring to his economic and domestic policies

So you agree with JFK’s arguments for universal health care?

Cool, we’re in agreement!

634 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:43:46pm

Later, everyone.

635 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:43:49pm

re: #631 WindUpBird

So you left the Democratic party during LBJ! I guessed right. :)

yes even at the age of 3 I knew they were full of shit! :)

636 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:43:52pm

BBL.

637 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:44:19pm

re: #624 WindUpBird

I asked that question because that was brookly red’s exact words. He said those words, I asked him when that happened. I know it’s a simplistic question, but I was only responding to his premise.

His answers make sense to me. There hasn’t been a time since JFK that I wasn’t ticked off at 1/3 or more of my party’s leaders. I once almost voted for a Republican (Millicent Fenwick/Lacy Davenport).

638 freetoken  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:44:29pm

re: #629 talon_262

Tell me about it…

Hadn’t thought of Robert Culp in many years, until Gus posted the obit notice. RIP.

639 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:44:37pm

re: #630 palomino

Unfortunately the summer that comes to mind is 1968.

Hopefully we can avoid repeating that.

an it’s a hard rain that’s gonna fall…

640 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:44:48pm

re: #635 brookly red

yes even at the age of 3 I knew they were full of shit! :)

I love you when you make no sense

641 Gus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:45:24pm

re: #632 freetoken

Couldn’t find the theme music to I Spy. The composer is listed as Earle Hagen, who is noted for some well known theme pieces.

Here’s one:

Youtube Video

642 laZardo  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:45:48pm

re: #639 brookly red

an it’s a hard rain that’s gonna fall…

‘cause the times, they are a chaaaaangin’.

/While we’re still talking about the 1960s…

643 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:45:48pm

re: #640 WindUpBird

I love you when you make no sense

that makes perfect sense grasshopper.

644 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:46:25pm

re: #637 Decatur Deb

His answers make sense to me. There hasn’t been a time since JFK that I wasn’t ticked off at 1/3 or more of my party’s leaders. I once almost voted for a Republican (Millicent Fenwick/Lacy Davenport).

I’m ticked off at 1/3 of the Democratic party now. Always have been. I blame Bill Clinton partially for the financial crisis.

here’s my feeling son the Democratic party: the democratic party is shoddy, corrupt, untrustworthy and disorganized. And it’s the best party we got.

645 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:46:31pm

re: #633 WindUpBird

So you agree with JFK’s arguments for universal health care?

Cool, we’re in agreement!

ummm,,, he was arguing for a plan for the Elderly,, NOT the entire populace (I believe it was the Forand ((sp?)) bill)

646 freetoken  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:46:33pm

I Spy is has 5 episodes from Season 1 on Youtube:

youtube.com

Youtube Video

647 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:46:52pm

re: #643 brookly red

that makes perfect sense grasshopper.

hey, I like David Carradine too!

648 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:48:09pm

re: #645 sattv4u2

ummm,,, he was arguing for a plan for the Elderly,, NOT the entire populace (I believe it was the Forand ((sp?)) bill)

Sure!

And Republicans were arguing against it. Reagan was a spokesman against health care. I agree with JFK’s positions on health care, and I agree with Nixon’s as well.

649 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:48:22pm

speaking of shovel ready jobs, time to walk the mastiffs…

650 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:49:04pm

re: #649 brookly red

speaking of shovel ready jobs, time to walk the mastiffs…

That’s a lot of poop to scoop.

651 laZardo  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:49:23pm

re: #644 WindUpBird

There are the Greens, but unfortunately their only significant candidate is a raving nutbag.

652 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:49:32pm

re: #648 WindUpBird

Sure!

And Republicans were arguing against it. Reagan was a spokesman against health care. I agree with JFK’s positions on health care, and I agree with Nixon’s as well.


which was NOT “universal health care” , as you tried to state in #633

653 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:49:45pm

re: #645 sattv4u2

ummm,,, he was arguing for a plan for the Elderly,, NOT the entire populace (I believe it was the Forand ((sp?)) bill)

though I believe he also argued for UNIVERSAL health care: care2.com

654 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:49:59pm

re: #632 freetoken

Couldn’t find the theme music to I Spy. The composer is listed as Earle Hagen, who is noted for some well known theme pieces.

Damn, he scored tons of classic shows and movies…from his Wiki page:

Born in Chicago, Illinois, as a boy he moved with his family to Los Angeles, California, where he learned to play the trombone in junior high school, and graduated from Hollywood High School. He left home to join traveling big bands, at age 16, and played with Tommy Dorsey, Benny Goodman and Ray Noble. While with Noble he wrote “Harlem Nocturne”,[citation needed] on the road in 1939, as a tribute to Duke Ellington and Johnny Hodges.[1][3] The piece was recorded by several artists, including Earl Bostic, The Viscounts, Sam Taylor, Herbie Fields, Randy Brooks, and The Lounge Lizards, and was later used as the theme to television’s Mickey Spillane’s Mike Hammer.

In order to make extra money he began teaching trombone in the 1930s. He went to work for CBS in 1940, as a staff musician, but then enlisted in the military in 1941. Hagen was an orchestrator and arranger for motion picture studio 20th Century Fox in 1940s and early 1950s, and worked on films like Call Me Madam, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and Carousel. He began writing for television when he left Fox in 1952 with partner Herbert W. Spencer. Hagen met television show producer Sheldon Leonard when he scored the Danny Thomas series Make Room for Daddy.[1][3]

Hagen’s most ambitious body of work, however, came from his work on I Spy, for which he won an Emmy in 1968. Sheldon Leonard, the producer and creator of I Spy, bucked the trend of using canned music for television shows and instead decided to create original soundtracks for every episode. Since every episode of I Spy was set in a different location, Hagen made liberal use of world music in his soundtracks which were mostly written and performed within the West coast jazz genre. (Hagen did not claim the West coast jazz affiliation for himself, instead inventing the term “semi-jazz”, which he defined as a union of global themes with American jazz.)

Other television theme songs that Hagen composed were the themes for My Sister Eileen, The Dick Van Dyke Show, Gomer Pyle - USMC, That Girl (along with I Spy Thomas and Leonard productions), Eight Is Enough, and The Mod Squad.[1][4]

At the end of his life he continued teaching and wrote books on music arranging and scoring. Sometimes his only fee was a box of golf balls because of his passion for golfing.[1] He wrote one of the first textbooks on scoring, Scoring for Films: A Complete Text, and Memoirs of a Famous Composer Nobody Ever Heard Of was his autobiography published in 2000.[3] One of his students was fellow Emmy-winning composer and orchestrator Harvey Cohen.[5]

He was married for fifty-nine years to Elouise “Lou” Sidwell, a former big-band singer, until her death in 2002. He then married his second wife, Laura, in 2005.[1]

Hagen died of natural causes in Rancho Mirage.[1]

655 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:50:11pm

re: #644 WindUpBird

Word.

656 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:50:15pm

re: #650 darthstar

That’s a lot of poop to scoop.

this is my warm up routine :)

657 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:50:55pm

re: #652 sattv4u2

which was NOT “universal health care” , as you tried to state in #633

Actually, you’re wrong.

see: care2.com
democraticunderground.com

He said START with seniors. But he argues for UNIVERSAL care.

How much clearer can I be?

658 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:53:14pm

re: #653 WindUpBird

though I believe he also argued for UNIVERSAL health care: [Link: www.care2.com…]

Do you even read what you link too??

Beginning in the late 1950s, popular pressure refocused on the health needs of the elderly.14 Reform advocates created a “Medicare” strategy, tied to a campaign for a national program of hospital insurance for those older than 65. Organized labor strongly supported the legislative formulation of this program—the Forand bill, introduced by Representative Aime Forand, Democrat of Rhode Island—as did a variety of public health, social welfare, and reform groups and, increasingly, senior citizens’ councils. John F. Kennedy endorsed the Medicare proposal in his 1960 presidential campaign, and his administration supported a new bill, the King–Anderson bill, soon after his election. Resistance to the King–Anderson bill came from providers, the insurance sector, other business interests, conservative national political organizations, and certain members of Congress, including, notably, Representative Wilbur Mills, Democrat of Arkansas, the powerful chair of the House Ways and Means Committee.

The Kennedy administration encouraged a growing popular campaign organized by the senior citizens movement

659 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:53:43pm

re: #654 talon_262

Whoops, forgot this:

Earle Harry Hagen (July 9, 1919 — May 26, 2008) was an American composer who created music for movies and television. He is remembered for co-writing and whistling “The Fishin’ Hole”, the melody of the main theme to The Andy Griffith Show, the instrumental classic “Harlem Nocturne” used as the theme to television’s Mickey Spillane’s Mike Hammer, and co-wrote the theme song to Tim Conway’s Western comedy Rango.[1][2

660 Cineaste  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:56:34pm

re: #29 RogueOne

It should be. Before we all blow our tops over this all a “cut” propane line gets you is an empty tank. The only way it would have exploded is if whatever asshat cut it was smoking a cigarette while they did it.

This is a nitwit of a remark. So this person did this to empty the tank? Right…

Let’s assume it’s a normal propane tank and the line that was cut ran between the tank and a BBQ as many of us have in our yards. In fact it could be quite dangerous indeed. You keep the tank off most of the time. Next time you go to your BBQ you turn on the tank, then turn on the grill and then start striking matches to get the grill to fire. Problem is, if you don’t notice the line is sliced, the tank is not filling the grill with propane but, rather, blowing propane all around you without a limiting nozzle.

You do the math. That’s a very dangerous situation. Add to that that this guy has young kids. If this was intentional and they catch the person who did this, he (or she - though I would be it’s a guy) should go away for a long, long time.

661 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:57:15pm

re: #632 freetoken

Couldn’t find the theme music to I Spy. The composer is listed as Earle Hagen, who is noted for some well known theme pieces.

Youtube Video

662 Cineaste  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:57:17pm

re: #35 RogueOne

I deal with cut gas lines all the time, part of the fun of welding. Whoever did it should be arrested for vandalism but lets nut jump to conclusions that they were trying to blow something up. If they were, they went about it all wrong.

Nobody ever said Tea Partiers were bright…

663 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:57:30pm

re: #658 sattv4u2

Do you even read what you link too??

Beginning in the late 1950s, popular pressure refocused on the health needs of the elderly.14 Reform advocates created a “Medicare” strategy, tied to a campaign for a national program of hospital insurance for those older than 65. Organized labor strongly supported the legislative formulation of this program—the Forand bill, introduced by Representative Aime Forand, Democrat of Rhode Island—as did a variety of public health, social welfare, and reform groups and, increasingly, senior citizens’ councils. John F. Kennedy endorsed the Medicare proposal in his 1960 presidential campaign, and his administration supported a new bill, the King–Anderson bill, soon after his election. Resistance to the King–Anderson bill came from providers, the insurance sector, other business interests, conservative national political organizations, and certain members of Congress, including, notably, Representative Wilbur Mills, Democrat of Arkansas, the powerful chair of the House Ways and Means Committee.

The Kennedy administration encouraged a growing popular campaign organized by the senior citizens movement

Dude I acknowledged that! Popular pressure = senior health care. But Kennedy’s example was UNIVERSAL health care as something we should aspire to.

664 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:58:13pm

re: #640 WindUpBird

I love you when you make no sense

Yeah, no shit.

665 Cineaste  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:58:32pm

re: #57 blueraven

Incompetence doesnt make it not a terrorist act. I think we have seen plenty of that.

Well said - by that logic the panty bomber and the shoe bombers weren’t terrorists at all!

*head smack*

666 laZardo  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:59:22pm

Gotta get on the bus and run down some dissidents. q:

Cheers.

667 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:59:31pm

re: #663 WindUpBird

Dude I acknowledged that! Popular pressure = senior health care. But Kennedy’s example was UNIVERSAL health care as something we should aspire to.

Dude (damn, I hate that term), he never intended “UNIVERSAL” (i.e, the entire populace) but rather a safety net for the elderly

668 Tiny alien kittens are watching you  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 3:59:39pm

Just wait awhile, the “camels nose is now in the tent” so to speak on health care, good luck on keeping the rest of the camel out later.

Congress will add and tweak and fix and fiddle with this bill over the coming years, the bill that just passed will probably be unrecognizable in another ten years. Not that they really have any choice, we have a long way to go towards slowing even the rate increase in medical costs, much less reduce them.

669 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:00:10pm

and on that note ,,, have to go get ready for work,, BBL

670 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:02:22pm

re: #667 sattv4u2

Dude (damn, I hate that term), he never intended “UNIVERSAL” (i.e, the entire populace) but rather a safety net for the elderly

We’re splitting hairs about his rhetoric and eventual intent versus the political realities of what he actually wanted to pass. 9_9 of course Kennedy can’t pass universal health care, it’s not fesable. But he was citing that as an example, and doing what he could, which was to try and cover seniors.


This is a bit like saying that because a politician is arguing for gay people to not be discriminated against (because that’s an achievable goal in the short term) that their rhetoric and intent about eventually achieving full equality doesn’t count or matter.

But anyway, this is going around and around and around andaround and around and around and around and around and I’m sick of repeating myself :)

671 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:02:28pm

re: #668 ausador

Just wait awhile, the “camels nose is now in the tent” so to speak on health care, good luck on keeping the rest of the camel out later.

Congress will add and tweak and fix and fiddle with this bill over the coming years, the bill that just passed will probably be unrecognizable in another ten years. Not that they really have any choice, we have a long way to go towards slowing even the rate increase in medical costs, much less reduce them.

Does it really matter? There is certainly enough funding mechanisms in the bill, and many more can be added in the following years, to keep this soluble. They do that to program after program right now, why should this be any different?

672 Cineaste  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:02:32pm

re: #180 Obdicut

Again:

There is nothing inherent in conservatism or liberalism that drives to violence. That does not mean that, at any given moment, the incarnation of the ‘left’ or ‘right’ isn’t actually worse.

Right now, the ‘right’ is behaving worse. After the 2004 election, the left was definitely acting ‘worse’. However, the current climate, by any measure— as the ADL, the SPLC, and the justice department can tell us— is more volatile, and worse. And the amount of support from the GOP representatives and leadership is feeding the problem.

I would also submit that there is a LOT more talk of “watering the tree of liberty” and people marching around with posters proclaiming that the next time they show up they’re bringing a gun than we’ve seen in a long time. (ever?)

673 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:03:05pm

re: #667 sattv4u2

Yes, he did. And said so. So did Nixon. So did a lot of people. It’s not an unusual, rare, new, or outrageous idea.

674 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:03:10pm

re: #667 sattv4u2

Dude (damn, I hate that term), he never intended “UNIVERSAL” (i.e, the entire populace) but rather a safety net for the elderly

And I’m sorry you don’t like the term “dude”. But I use it every day of my life. So you’re just going to have to tolerate my dude, as I tolerate your overuse of commas :D :D

675 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:04:43pm
676 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:04:50pm

Drive-by OT, hope everylizard is well today:

Disputed isle in Bay of Bengal disappears into sea

NEW DELHI – For nearly 30 years, India and Bangladesh have argued over control of a tiny rock island in the Bay of Bengal. Now rising sea levels have resolved the dispute for them: the island’s gone.

New Moore Island in the Sunderbans has been completely submerged, said oceanographer Sugata Hazra, a professor at Jadavpur University in Calcutta. Its disappearance has been confirmed by satellite imagery and sea patrols, he said.

“What these two countries could not achieve from years of talking, has been resolved by global warming,” said Hazra.

677 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:06:06pm

re: #672 Cineaste

I would also submit that there is a LOT more talk of “watering the tree of liberty” and people marching around with posters proclaiming that the next time they show up they’re bringing a gun than we’ve seen in a long time. (ever?)

There’s a lot more talk, but the Clinton-era militia movement still seems better organized and thus more dangerous. The risk is that the disorganized few million provides plenty of compost for regrowth of a deadly few.

678 Lidane  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:07:14pm

re: #672 Cineaste

I would also submit that there is a LOT more talk of “watering the tree of liberty” and people marching around with posters proclaiming that the next time they show up they’re bringing a gun than we’ve seen in a long time. (ever?)

For example: Image: 912TeaPartyDC12.jpg

679 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:07:15pm

re: #668 ausador

I want the entire camel in the tent, and the camel’s whole family. That camel is the death of recission. That camel’s sister is the ability of freelancers to get portable coverage. That camel’s cousin is the end of pre-existing conditions preventing people from getting care. That camel’s mom is people getting cancer screenings and checkups because they actually have a PCP. That camel’s dad is my friends who have conditions from birth finally being able to get on the insurance rolls.

I like this camel. I like it a lot. :)

We have to stop pretending this fiction that unregulated health care insurers and the “free market” with no constraints on unethical and abusive practices, can provide for ethical health care. We have to stop pretending that we can do this without a mandate that distributes risk.

680 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:07:29pm

re: #677 Decatur Deb

PIMF “few thousand”

681 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:07:41pm

re: #677 Decatur Deb

And the Republicans were not nearly as encouraging of the dangerous rhetoric back then, either.

682 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:08:36pm

re: #677 Decatur Deb

There’s a lot more talk, but the Clinton-era militia movement still seems better organized and thus more dangerous. The risk is that the disorganized few million provides plenty of compost for regrowth of a deadly few.

and the more intrusive the govt becomes, the larger the revolt orgs will be…it’s the natural course of events…a bit spooky

683 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:11:07pm

re: #682 albusteve

and the more intrusive the govt becomes, the larger the revolt orgs will be…it’s the natural course of events…a bit spooky

I want to know what the administration can do about this stuff? Something has to be done, these nuts are fixing to hurt people, and I don’t think there is any way to stop them.

684 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:11:14pm

re: #682 albusteve

and the more intrusive the govt becomes, the larger the revolt orgs will be…it’s the natural course of events…a bit spooky

A disappointing 2010 congressional pickup, and a second Obama term would keep the train moving at a good clip.

685 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:12:03pm

WUB: You were right, I owe you a beer, or maybe a shot.

Good call!

686 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:12:54pm

re: #679 WindUpBird

I want the entire camel in the tent, and the camel’s whole family. That camel is the death of recission. That camel’s sister is the ability of freelancers to get portable coverage. That camel’s cousin is the end of pre-existing conditions preventing people from getting care. That camel’s mom is people getting cancer screenings and checkups because they actually have a PCP. That camel’s dad is my friends who have conditions from birth finally being able to get on the insurance rolls.

I like this camel. I like it a lot. :)

We have to stop pretending this fiction that unregulated health care insurers and the “free market” with no constraints on unethical and abusive practices, can provide for ethical health care. We have to stop pretending that we can do this without a mandate that distributes risk.

Everyone who earns 133% of the poverty level or less will be eligible for Medicaid.

Doctors can still refuse to accept Medicaid patients.

687 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:13:10pm

re: #683 Walter L. Newton

I want to know what the administration can do about this stuff? Something has to be done, these nuts are fixing to hurt people, and I don’t think there is any way to stop them.

1) Foster a good economy.

2) Send in the clowns—mockery is a lethal weapon.

688 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:14:23pm

re: #683 Walter L. Newton

I want to know what the administration can do about this stuff? Something has to be done, these nuts are fixing to hurt people, and I don’t think there is any way to stop them.

I’ve said all along that sooner or later the 1st Amendment is gonna take a hit…maybe the feds should dust off the sedition laws and try to impose them….I agree that there is little to be done, except enforce existing firearms laws…people are pissed

689 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:15:14pm

re: #686 Alouette

There was an interesting thing on the local NPR stations (OPB) about doctors in OR setting up some large HMO/Co-op style organizations that were much more efficient and medicare friendly.

I don’t remember all the details, but a big part of it was that a part of the thing with medicare being tough for doctors was the way the insurance model dealt with it.

If people are interested I’ll try to look up the show.

690 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:16:11pm

OK on this topic of creeping extremism, I, the “Ojoebot” must again post the web address of the Centrist Modern Whig Party, no kidding, a real political party & home for the moderate and person of common sense. If that sounds like you, check it out; if substantial numbers join the Modern Whigs, the cranky extremists will find themselves cut adrift in tiny, irrelevant parties. IMHO that would be very good for the country.

Anyway, here is the
Modern Whig Party

691 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:16:18pm

re: #679 WindUpBird

Also, what would single-payer be then? The 2-humped camel across the street?

692 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:17:03pm

re: #689 windsagio

It has a lot to do with the manner of physician compensation, as well— not doing fee-for-service, but instead focusing on totality of care.

693 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:17:43pm

re: #684 Decatur Deb

A disappointing 2010 congressional pickup, and a second Obama term would keep the train moving at a good clip.

if the style of governance we’ve seen with this HC bill becomes everyday, normal politics…people are going to go through the roof, and the MSM will love every minute of it…another BO admin after this one will probably topple this partisan house of cards

694 allegro  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:18:31pm

re: #688 albusteve

people are pissed

I think this is the issue at it’s core. But what are people pissed about? I don’t think most of them, at least those at the tea parties (watch a few interviews) even know. They’re just pissed cuz Fox news, Beck, O’Reilly Bachmann, Palin, et al told them to be, along with a lot of outrageous lies and rhetoric. Remove that discourse and a lot of this violent nonsense will stop.

695 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:18:35pm

re: #692 Obdicut

opb.org

Excellent show in general, about how it’ll impact on the state level, and what various actors plan to do.

Also, yes, you’re absolutely right.

696 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:19:00pm

re: #686 Alouette

Everyone who earns 133% of the poverty level or less will be eligible for Medicaid.

Doctors can still refuse to accept Medicaid patients.

I wonder if the Government offered a big tax cut for any Doctor that carries 20% of Medicaid patients.. Would that be a motivation to accommodate another 30 million people?
Heck if anybody deserves a refund tax check it’s the Doctors.

697 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:19:01pm

re: #688 albusteve

I’ve said all along that sooner or later the 1st Amendment is gonna take a hit…maybe the feds should dust off the sedition laws and try to impose them…I agree that there is little to be done, except enforce existing firearms laws…people are pissed

Agree, but for now is the time for gathering enough information to sort out the venting many from the dangerous few. Then, like you said above, act without seeming jackbooted.

698 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:19:50pm

re: #693 albusteve

if the style of governance we’ve seen with this HC bill becomes everyday, normal politics.


I’m sorry. I’m calling bullshit on that - after the way the republicans ran congress and how the Bush white house operated - what you imagined happened during HCR was business as usual in washington.

699 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:20:24pm

re: #684 Decatur Deb

A disappointing 2010 congressional pickup, and a second Obama term would keep the train moving at a good clip.

And the GOP is handing it to the Dems on a silver platter for the foreseeable future by catering to/tolerating the Stormfront-style racists/bigots, the black helicopter crowd, the Ron/Rand Paul-style “America First”-ers and other unsavory characters, instead of growing a backbone and some balls and telling the assholes what to go do with themselves.

/oy vey!

700 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:20:36pm

re: #693 albusteve

…snip and the MSM will love every minute of it..

They do love a photogenic riot.

701 Tiny alien kittens are watching you  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:20:39pm

re: #683 Walter L. Newton

I want to know what the administration can do about this stuff? Something has to be done, these nuts are fixing to hurt people, and I don’t think there is any way to stop them.

Require all Americans 18 or older to watch at least two hours of msnbc news daily, or Rachel Maddow’s show.

/Hey, it might help…

702 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:20:57pm

re: #696 HoosierHoops

Thats a way to do it - although a tax break on the corporate side of the Docs balance sheet, not the personal income side.

703 Lidane  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:21:56pm

re: #688 albusteve

I’ve said all along that sooner or later the 1st Amendment is gonna take a hit…maybe the feds should dust off the sedition laws and try to impose them…

I don’t know if I’d go that far. Dusting off old sedition laws? Seems a bit of an over-reaction, don’t you think?

There’s plenty of tools currently available to law enforcement to deal with any organized militias or self-styled “patriots” or “revolutionaries” who take the law into their own hands and get violent. No need to go back and resurrect laws that were in place hundreds of years ago.

people are pissed

They’re pissed off out of proportion to what they’re raging against. That’s the problem.

It’s normal to dislike a government policy, or a politician and their ideas. What is NOT normal are the more extreme actions we’re seeing, and the encouragement of more overtly angry or violent acts. What’s not normal is the perpetual panic/fear/outrage machine at work that is keeping people angry and scared. That’s what we need to confront. We need to try and find a way to bring civility back to the normal political voice in this country. All the angry rhetoric is just making things that much more difficult.

704 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:22:06pm

re: #699 talon_262

And the GOP is handing it to the Dems on a silver platter for the foreseeable future by catering to/tolerating the Stormfront-style racists/bigots, the black helicopter crowd, the Ron/Rand Paul-style “America First”-ers and other unsavory characters, instead of growing a backbone and some balls and telling the assholes what to go do with themselves.

/oy vey!

no, no, no. Haven’t you been paying attention? It’s the Dems Waterloo. Their armageddon. They’re done. Toast. Finished.

705 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:22:09pm

re: #694 allegro

I think this is the issue at it’s core. But what are people pissed about? I don’t think most of them, at least those at the tea parties (watch a few interviews) even know. They’re just pissed cuz Fox news, Beck, O’Reilly Bachmann, Palin, et al told them to be, along with a lot of outrageous lies and rhetoric. Remove that discourse and a lot of this violent nonsense will stop.

who knows why?…it’s a multitude of things….the feds are strong arming the taxpayers and they don’t like it…I don’t either…bullshit like the Stimulus, and cash for clunkers, buying off the UAW…govt is out of control imo…just wait til BO buys off the illegals to get them to the polls by 2012…the shit is gonna hit the fan

706 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:22:27pm

re: #701 ausador

Require all Americans 18 or older to watch at least two hours of msnbc news daily, or Rachel Maddow’s show.

/Hey, it might help…

TV CAMPS !!1!!

707 allegro  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:23:45pm

re: #705 albusteve

who knows why?…it’s a multitude of things…the feds are strong arming the taxpayers and they don’t like it…I don’t either…bullshit like the Stimulus, and cash for clunkers, buying off the UAW…govt is out of control imo…just wait til BO buys off the illegals to get them to the polls by 2012…the shit is gonna hit the fan

Fox news eleventy

708 Gus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:23:51pm

re: #693 albusteve

if the style of governance we’ve seen with this HC bill becomes everyday, normal politics…people are going to go through the roof, and the MSM will love every minute of it…another BO admin after this one will probably topple this partisan house of cards

What style of governance would that be? You mean the one in which the Democrats hold a majority and are successful in attaining a majority vote in the House? The Democrats who took in control of the House and Senate in 2006 as a result of democratic elections? Other than a few back room deals which is not uncommon and in fact has been tradition in DC since the founding of this nation.

709 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:23:54pm

re: #705 albusteve

if the government were really out of control, they wouldn’t have to make all these deals to get things done. They would have just pushed single-payer through, or nationalized all the banks, or… well you get the idea >>

710 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:24:04pm

re: #698 wozzablog

I’m sorry. I’m calling bullshit on that - after the way the republicans ran congress and how the Bush white house operated - what you imagined happened during HCR was business as usual in washington.

yes, it appears we all imagine things, different things to different people….there is a certain amt of fantasy voters accept

711 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:24:28pm

re: #702 wozzablog

Thats a way to do it - although a tax break on the corporate side of the Docs balance sheet, not the personal income side.

Just looking quickly here’s something for Medicare Dr.’s next year:

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2011

*Medicare provides 10 percent bonus payments to primary care physicians and general surgeons.

reuters.com

712 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:25:19pm

re: #710 albusteve

yes, it appears we all imagine things, different things to different people…there is a certain amt of fantasy voters accept

Not just voters. I often get the idea that Obama had no idea how bad things would actually be once he got into office. Reality certainly kicked HIS butt.

Luckily he’s a spunky one.

713 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:25:38pm

re: #702 wozzablog

Thats a way to do it - although a tax break on the corporate side of the Docs balance sheet, not the personal income side.

Yes, a tax break on the Practice..
Somebody elect us to Congress!

714 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:25:39pm

re: #703 Lidane

They’re pissed off out of proportion to what they’re raging against. That’s the problem.

It’s normal to dislike a government policy, or a politician and their ideas. What is NOT normal are the more extreme actions we’re seeing, and the encouragement of more overtly angry or violent acts. What’s not normal is the perpetual panic/fear/outrage machine at work that is keeping people angry and scared. That’s what we need to confront. We need to try and find a way to bring civility back to the normal political voice in this country. All the angry rhetoric is just making things that much more difficult.

you don’t need to explain to me bout proportion…I’m reacting to the situation on the ground, not what should be an ideal

715 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:26:16pm

re: #701 ausador

Require all Americans 18 or older to watch at least two hours of msnbc news daily, or Rachel Maddow’s show.

/Hey, it might help…

Actually, I’m serious. First off, this is not going to stop, there are going to be people getting hurt, if not more, that’s evident. So, what can the administrations do about it preemptively? No amount to talking to these nuts are going to stop anything, they get too much support, as i say “at the speed of light” from all their “friends” and contact on the internet.

And if you read up thread, and read similar threads that have been on LGF for the last month or so, we know that every reasonable person can see that there is trouble brewing.

Why won’t the administration say something, take a stand, this is going to turn into a real dangerous situation.

716 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:26:17pm

re: #711 Stanley Sea

swish :-)


*policy, i can makes that*

717 Carlos Dangler  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:26:54pm

re: #708 Gus 802

What style of governance would that be? You mean the one in which the Democrats hold a majority and are successful in attaining a majority vote in the House? The Democrats who took in control of the House and Senate in 2006 as a result of democratic elections? Other than a few back room deals which is not uncommon and in fact has been tradition in DC since the founding of this nation.

Also known as “a little old-fashioned horse trading”…a practice that’s happened for ages, like you said.

718 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:27:27pm

re: #708 Gus 802

What style of governance would that be? You mean the one in which the Democrats hold a majority and are successful in attaining a majority vote in the House? The Democrats who took in control of the House and Senate in 2006 as a result of democratic elections? Other than a few back room deals which is not uncommon and in fact has been tradition in DC since the founding of this nation.

fine, then what’s all the hoopla surrounding GOP and their obstructionism…just business as usual

719 ~Fianna  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:28:18pm

re: #341 cliffster

I’m not sure why Obama should have been concerned about the procedures the Congress used to pass the bill (provided, of course, that they were legal, which all the procedures in question were, AFAIK).

Picking the rules by which bills are brought, discussed and passed is the House’s concern, not the Executive’s - as it should be.

720 freetoken  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:28:18pm

CENSUS UNDERCOUNTING!

Undercounted in cosmic census

The United States wants everyone to stand up and be counted in the 2010 census, but meanwhile many galaxies have been undercounted in their own celestial census.

It turns out that about 90 percent of distant galaxies do not show up in a commonly used galaxy survey method, a new study has found.

ACORN…. it’s ACORN’s fault!

721 windsagio  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:29:29pm

re: #718 albusteve

Because they’re being unusually bad? They’ve taken an ‘unfortunate but real problem in our government’ and made it into… well, something horrible.

722 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:29:34pm

re: #715 Walter L. Newton

…snip

Why won’t the administration say something, take a stand, this is going to turn into a real dangerous situation.

Albusteve said it above—any clumsy “oppresive” action will just make it worse. I’m afraid you’re right about people getting hurt—it took public revulsion over Oklahoma City to damper the ’80s militia movement.

723 Gus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:30:02pm

re: #717 talon_262

Also known as “a little old-fashioned horse trading”…a practice that’s happened for ages, like you said.

Yes. I also wanted to add this.

The Republicans get the majority and the Democrats get all pissed off. The Democrats get the majority and the Republicans get all pissed off. We might not like either case depending on which side we’re on but we have to learn to accept their decision at times and make the best of it.

In either case those who win the majority do so by way of democratic elections. There is no tyranny as the Tea Party nuts would have us believe. ACORN and Diebold did not fix any elections.

724 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:30:10pm

re: #720 freetoken

Maybe there will not have to be so much “dark matter” then. “Dark matter” seems like some sort of mistake anyway.

725 Gus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:30:41pm

re: #718 albusteve

fine, then what’s all the hoopla surrounding GOP and their obstructionism…just business as usual

OK Point taken.

726 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:31:45pm

re: #715 Walter L. Newton

If the whitehouse acknowledges it - the groups feeling wrathlike will be even further emboldend.

Also theyd feel even more like they were being pushed around by the chicago/kenyan/seeekrit mooslim.

The moderate right and sane conservative right have to come together and engage in pushback - even if they have to run *sane party* candidates in a few districts against the seriously skrewed up GOP/TeaParty frontrunners.

The moderates and the sane people have to be allowed back into the game by the massmedia - for goodness sake, Buchannon is on MSNBC and Bill Bennet is on CNN saying a bit of america died at this congresses hands.

Without sane media conservatives instead of the far right nutzoids - we are heading for a cliff.

727 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:32:31pm

A nifty science animation: The Tenth Dimension:

geekarmy.com

About ten minutes long, file for later edification.

728 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:34:37pm

re: #715 Walter L. Newton

Actually, I’m serious. First off, this is not going to stop, there are going to be people getting hurt, if not more, that’s evident. So, what can the administrations do about it preemptively? No amount to talking to these nuts are going to stop anything, they get too much support, as i say “at the speed of light” from all their “friends” and contact on the internet.

And if you read up thread, and read similar threads that have been on LGF for the last month or so, we know that every reasonable person can see that there is trouble brewing.

Why won’t the administration say something, take a stand, this is going to turn into a real dangerous situation.

yes it is…interesting eh?…advising a militant group that they are endangering society is probably the least effective choice you could make…after all govt is endangering them and their lifestyle…this problem only gets worse when you have a town hall meeting and your elected official admits they have no clue as to whats going on…shit like that counts…when they see House crooks design your tax system, that pisses people off…govt is corrupt imo…clean it up and the anger will subside

729 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:34:58pm

re: #726 wozzablog

Totally agree with your post.

730 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:35:40pm

re: #715 Walter L. Newton

I also think that “we” as a generation, never expected the economy to tank. Many people have “lost” a lot of money in the market, their retirement, their jobs, and they don’t know what to do. “We” have lived on credit cards, borrowed against the seemingly never ending rise in property vales. It’s a RUDE SHOCK, and a lot of people are very afraid.

731 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:36:10pm

re: #720 freetoken

CENSUS UNDERCOUNTING!

Undercounted in cosmic census

ACORN… it’s ACORN’s fault!

They’re illegal galaxies, anyway.

732 Gus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:37:06pm

Cripes. Sometimes when I do a “find” on Firefox it locks up and occasionally crashes.

733 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:37:11pm

re: #696 HoosierHoops

I wonder if the Government offered a big tax cut for any Doctor that carries 20% of Medicaid patients.. Would that be a motivation to accommodate another 30 million people?
Heck if anybody deserves a refund tax check it’s the Doctors.

My doctor does not take Medicaid patients. He explained that it costs more to process the paperwork than he receives from the government for treatment of patients. In other words, it is a huge expense for physicians and nothing to reimburse them.

Also the paperwork for Medicaid treatments is much more complicated than the process for the other insurance companies.

734 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:37:19pm

re: #718 albusteve

the couple of latest additions to their armory - not so much.

they have shut the senate down past 2pm and the number of fillibusters and obama appointees denied heariings and general obfuscations are just monumental.

735 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:38:05pm

re: #733 Alouette

My doctor does not take Medicaid patients. He explained that it costs more to process the paperwork than he receives from the government for treatment of patients. In other words, it is a huge expense for physicians and nothing to reimburse them.

Also the paperwork for Medicaid treatments is much more complicated than the process for the other insurance companies.

next step…nationalize the care giver industry…bet me

736 teleskiguy  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:38:06pm

The last line in this article is an outright lie Fuckin’ Washington Times man!
washingtontimes.com
ABC News on television tonight showed a photo of the signing, provided by the White House.

737 Gus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:38:55pm

Looks like we have a stay of execution.

High court gives last-minute stay to condemned Texan

Washington (CNN) — The U.S. Supreme Court granted a temporary stay of execution late Wednesday for a condemned Texas inmate who is requesting DNA testing of evidence in his case.

The order was handed down less than an hour before Henry “Hank” Skinner, 47, was scheduled to be executed by lethal injection for the New Year’s Eve 1993 killings of his live-in girlfriend and her two sons.

The Supreme Court granted the temporary stay while it considers whether to take up Skinner’s broader appeal. It was not immediately clear when the court might consider the case, but there was no indication a decision would be made before Thursday.

Skinner’s attorneys maintain that DNA testing of the evidence could establish his innocence and determine the real killer.

“Since his arrest in the early morning hours of January 1, 1994, Mr. Skinner has always and consistently maintained that he did not commit the crimes for which he was convicted,” defense attorney Robert Owen wrote this month in a 30-page letter to Texas Gov. Rick Perry seeking a 30-day reprieve of Skinner’s execution…

Kind of glad about this. We’ll have to see how this plays out.

738 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:38:58pm

re: #726 wozzablog


[snip]
The moderate right and sane conservative right have to come together and engage in pushback - even if they have to run *sane party* candidates in a few districts against the seriously skrewed up GOP/TeaParty frontrunners.
[snip]

Except you can’t have something come together when it doesn’t exist… can you?

739 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:39:42pm

re: #730 Floral Giraffe

It is a rude shock, and we need some reforms in the financial area that would:

1. Severly eliminate speculation in the area of any necessity: Food, shelter, clothing, energy.

2. Module-ize the financial system so that faliures and follies remain local. There is an inn in my area (California) that is closed because of a decision of a bank in Germany. There went about 25 local jobs. It has been closed for more than a year.

740 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:40:06pm

re: #735 albusteve

Okay. I bet you $100 that there won’t be nationalization of the care giver industry before Obama leaves office.

741 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:41:06pm

re: #732 Gus 802

Cripes. Sometimes when I do a “find” on Firefox it locks up and occasionally crashes.

I’ve had that same problem, on different computers with different browsers. I was meaning to email Charles about this bug. Here’s the workaround I found: Open a tab to a different website. Open the Find window. Then tab back to LGF. It shouldn’t freeze if you do that.

742 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:41:11pm

re: #739 Ojoe

You can’t have failures be local without having success be local too; what you propose would limit the ability of non-metro places to do anything cool.

I highly suggest Niall Ferguson’s book “The Ascent of Money” for a much better explanation of that.

amazon.com

743 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:41:49pm

re: #734 wozzablog

the couple of latest additions to their armory - not so much.

they have shut the senate down past 2pm and the number of fillibusters and obama appointees denied heariings and general obfuscations are just monumental.

business as usual….better get used to it

744 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:42:27pm

re: #727 The Sanity Inspector

A nifty science animation: The Tenth Dimension:

[Link: www.geekarmy.com…]

About ten minutes long, file for later edification.

I’m about 4 minutes into it—on pause to post a thanks.

Resuming edification.

745 Gus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:42:44pm

re: #741 The Sanity Inspector

I’ve had that same problem, on different computers with different browsers. I was meaning to email Charles about this bug. Here’s the workaround I found: Open a tab to a different website. Open the Find window. Then tab back to LGF. It shouldn’t freeze if you do that.

OK Thanks. My find window is usually open. I’ll try that next time around.

746 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:42:56pm

re: #740 Obdicut

Okay. I bet you $100 that there won’t be nationalization of the care giver industry before Obama leaves office.

of course not… there still need to be an elite corps of hi quality providers for the ruling class that has exempted themselves from this bill.

747 recusancy  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:43:42pm

re: #746 brookly red

of course not… there still need to be an elite corps of hi quality providers for the ruling class that has exempted themselves from this bill.

When you say elite do you mean rich?

748 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:44:06pm

re: #737 Gus 802

Looks like we have a stay of execution.

High court gives last-minute stay to condemned Texan


Kind of glad about this. We’ll have to see how this plays out.

Not sure if this is the same atty, but I heard a great interview awhile ago about a death row atty in TX who just wrote a book. Interesting thing he said was that contrary to common belief, condemned killers do not claim innocence as a rule. To the point where when one does, adamantly, he feels it really needs to be investigated.

749 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:44:09pm

re: #738 Walter L. Newton

Except you can’t have something come together when it doesn’t exist… can you?

dreamworld…thousands of posts about how things ought to be, few regarding solutions….the main reason I find this blog slumping into incessant boredom

750 rurality  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:44:20pm

re: #619 Qabal

When I saw that letter yesterday, I was pretty stunned and grateful that violence wasnt a response. So for all the folks here who constantly use ‘they did it too’ as a dodge for the repulsive behavior of the R’s and right wing, check out the letter and see if you can come up with one for Dems and liberals. I’m not saying there wont be some valid gripes, but can’t imagine the list being a fraction of what’s detailed in the letter.

751 darthstar  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:44:39pm

re: #741 The Sanity Inspector

I’ve had that same problem, on different computers with different browsers. I was meaning to email Charles about this bug. Here’s the workaround I found: Open a tab to a different website. Open the Find window. Then tab back to LGF. It shouldn’t freeze if you do that.

I find that first highlighting my name above the posting box and then hitting F3 opens the find so I can quickly scroll through the thread to look for responses. Fewer crashes that way.

752 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:45:01pm

re: #743 albusteve

business as usual…better get used to it

no, this is where we differ… I ain’t getting used to nothing.

753 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:45:22pm

re: #744 Silvergirl

I’m about 4 minutes into it—on pause to post a thanks.

Resuming edification.

It’s slow isn’t it?
I think the LHC will answer many questions about Dimensions as particles collapse space/time at near the speed of light..
It’s a very exciting time for Science

754 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:45:37pm

re: #740 Obdicut

Okay. I bet you $100 that there won’t be nationalization of the care giver industry before Obama leaves office.

you leftist all want to bet these days…a new twist to my “bet me” thing…it’s rhetorical?

755 freetoken  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:45:52pm

re: #724 Ojoe

Probably not. “Dark matter” is needed to account for the gravitational acceleration in any given galaxy, such as the Milky Way.

Astronomers were aware that they were undercounting galaxies if counting was based only on detecting the Lyman-alpha line.

756 Gus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:46:47pm

re: #748 Stanley Sea

Not sure if this is the same atty, but I heard a great interview awhile ago about a death row atty in TX who just wrote a book. Interesting thing he said was that contrary to common belief, condemned killers do not claim innocence as a rule. To the point where when one does, adamantly, he feels it really needs to be investigated.

Yep. If I had to picture myself in such a situation, that is being convicted of something I was innocent of, they’d have to drag me out of court because I’d be kicking, screaming and pleading.

757 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:46:50pm

re: #747 recusancy

When you say elite do you mean rich?

no I said ruling class, the people who gave us this bill exempted themselves from it… well yes the are rich but no, I do NOT mean rich.

758 recusancy  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:47:15pm

re: #757 brookly red

no I said ruling class, the people who gave us this bill exempted themselves from it… well yes the are rich but no, I do NOT mean rich.

How are they exempted from it?

759 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:47:49pm

re: #746 brookly red

of course not… there still need to be an elite corps of hi quality providers for the ruling class that has exempted themselves from this bill.

ha!…good one…anyway BO will be long gone before the damage becomes obvious…he will blame it on the next guy….think “it’s Bush’s fault!” in reverse

760 ryannon  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:48:57pm

re: #741 The Sanity Inspector

I’ve had that same problem, on different computers with different browsers. I was meaning to email Charles about this bug. Here’s the workaround I found: Open a tab to a different website. Open the Find window. Then tab back to LGF. It shouldn’t freeze if you do that.

Or use Google Chrome.

761 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:49:03pm

re: #758 recusancy

How are they exempted from it?

what part of exempt do you not understand? do you think members of congress are part of this?

762 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:49:18pm

re: #759 albusteve

Okay. So what are the terms of the bet you’d like to make, Steve?

763 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:50:14pm

re: #758 recusancy

How are they exempted from it?

legislators have their own custom health care, managed by themselves and paid for by the taxpayers

764 brookly red  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:50:54pm

re: #763 albusteve

legislators have their own custom health care, managed by themselves and paid for by the taxpayers

the truth sucks don’t it?

765 Gus  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:52:09pm

Later.

766 recusancy  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:53:09pm

re: #761 brookly red

what part of exempt do you not understand? do you think members of congress are part of this?

Yes. They are American citizens bound to the same laws. I don’t think you understand the bill that passed. This will have little effect on people who already have good insurance. The rich will be taxed a little more. So they (the rich/elite) WILL be effected.

What I don’t understand is how you complain that the elite are keeping you down but then can turn around and argue against a redistribution of wealth which by definition does not favor the elite/rich.

There’s no provision in the bill that says congressmen are exempted.

767 Iron-Confederate  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:54:27pm

This is just my two cents, we all know the guys who did this is extremely illegal. But the article only said that the tea partiers were suspected of being involved. It doesn’t mean that the tea partiers were responsible unless the evidence says so. For all we know, it might have been some die hard Communist or someone with a personal vendetta that had nothing to do with politics who set this up.

If it were to be tea partiers, then the ones who were responsible for the crime should be punished. What should really happen is to persuade people to refrain themselves from placing wackos in high position who encourage criminal actions.

768 Olsonist  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:55:56pm

re: #757 brookly red

no I said ruling class, the people who gave us this bill exempted themselves from it… well yes the are rich but no, I do NOT mean rich.

The concept of a ruling class is of a bit dated concept. It implies that there is such a thing as a rule. But the rich can always afford. It’s what being rich means.

769 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:56:27pm

re: #766 recusancy

Yes. They are American citizens bound to the same laws. I don’t think you understand the bill that passed. This will have little effect on people who already have good insurance. The rich will be taxed a little more. So they (the rich/elite) WILL be effected.

What I don’t understand is how you complain that the elite are keeping you down but then can turn around and argue against a redistribution of wealth which by definition does not favor the elite/rich.

There’s no provision in the bill that says congressmen are exempted.

not sure what you are talking about…try google

770 albusteve  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 4:58:51pm

re: #768 Olsonist

The concept of a ruling class is of a bit dated concept. It implies that there is such a thing as a rule. But the rich can always afford. It’s what being rich means.

as for myself, I interpret ruling class as the congressman…they write the rules…there is nothing quaint or dated about it…as for the rich…who are they?….we have to have the feds define rich for us

771 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:00:17pm

re: #738 Walter L. Newton

They are hunkered down and in hiding - Frum broke cover, Voinavich has hopefully only joined the darkside in name only - Meghan Mccain, Charlie Crist took stimulus - i’m trying desperately to believe there are more.

772 austin_blue  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:02:12pm

re: #708 Gus 802

What style of governance would that be? You mean the one in which the Democrats hold a majority and are successful in attaining a majority vote in the House? The Democrats who took in control of the House and Senate in 2006 as a result of democratic elections? Other than a few back room deals which is not uncommon and in fact has been tradition in DC since the founding of this nation.

Ah, look at you, gettin’ all logical and shit.
;-)

773 Silvergirl  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:03:48pm

re: #753 HoosierHoops

It’s slow isn’t it?
I think the LHC will answer many questions about Dimensions as particles collapse space/time at near the speed of light..
It’s a very exciting time for Science

The 10th dimension is overrated. :-)

I’m just looking for some good time travel. Is that too much to ask?

774 austin_blue  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:05:12pm

re: #718 albusteve

fine, then what’s all the hoopla surrounding GOP and their obstructionism…just business as usual

It’s not the obstructionism. It’s their surrogates whipping the wingnuts into a frenzy and the R’s leadership tacitly approving.

775 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:11:58pm

re: #767 Iron-Confederate

Read the link in the thread header. The man who published the address doesn’t deny it. He’s just “shocked”.

776 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:18:43pm

re: #775 Decatur Deb

Read the link in the thread header. The man who published the address doesn’t deny it. He’s just “shocked”.

And I was shocked the other day that when I stupidly taught my son to use a lighter (sealing wax) he snuck out on the porch and burned things (paper).

Or, maybe I kicked myself and knew it was my own fault.

777 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:21:51pm

Praise Eris. This thread has grown.

778 Kruk  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:29:53pm

If this kind of craziness keeps going, Charles is going to run out of letters of the alphabet for “Why I left the right” threads.

This is the kind of thing that turns moderate and swing voters away from the right. Refering to a politician’s relative as “collateral damage” goes way beyond reasoned discourse. Not to mention that posting addresses and encouragement is a tactic that has been used time and again against people like abortion providers, and we all know the consequences of that. I really hope people don’t take this to the same level.

779 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:51:17pm

re: #138 9Iron

135 goddamnedfrank

Amusing, own up to the present and stop living in the past.

This is the present, but how about the future when there is another GOP president? Are you willing to say all of the discourse from the left will be civil?

Of course it won’t be. But I will still be against people publishing politician’s brothers’ addresses, and fucking with people’s propane lines, and you, doubtless, will have forgotten that anyone who isn’t a ‘leftist’ would ever do such a thing.

780 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:52:35pm

re: #766 recusancy

I don’t think you understand the bill that passed. This will have little effect on people who already have good insurance.

I think you mean people who have insurance through a large corporation, or the government. Those already have the provisions against denying coverage for preexisting conditions, not mention immediate approval without medical checkups and without the risk of cancellation at any time for any reason, or none.

On the other hand, it might make a real difference to people like me who do have private insurance, but cannot enjoy the “free market” crap because of the fear that if another company denied coverage that would get back to the present one; or be afraid that if I did need treatment for any period of time, it would likely mean starting the cancellation clock, and so on.

At least I can vote against legislators. I can’t do squat against insurance executives.

781 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:57:52pm

re: #778 Kruk


This is the kind of thing that turns moderate and swing voters away from the right. Refering to a politician’s relative as “collateral damage” goes way beyond reasoned discourse. Not to mention that posting addresses and encouragement is a tactic that has been used time and again against people like abortion providers, and we all know the consequences of that. I really hope people don’t take this to the same level.

Here’s an article designed to make the gullible’s blood boil, and perhaps justify worse.

ARTICLECOMMENTS (376)Updated March 22, 2010
The Biggest Abuse of Power and Arrogance Washington Has Ever Seen

782 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 5:59:19pm
783 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 6:01:59pm

re: #138 9Iron

135 goddamnedfrank

Amusing, own up to the present and stop living in the past.

This is the present, but how about the future when if there is another GOP president? Are you willing to say all of the discourse from the left will be civil?

Fixed that for you. If the GOP keeps up the kind of stunt they pulled in North Dakota, having their state party chairman read aloud a Democratic Rep’s personal cell phone number from the stage of the state party convention, then the Republicans are going to be a regional party at best.

784 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 6:03:10pm

re: #199 wozzablog

The utterly hypocritical tea party activists -the left is absolutely dripping about them -not because of the extremism, but because of the fact they only just figured out the state of the nations finances after being asleep at the voting switch for 8 years.

They woke up when a tax and spend democrat did exactly what his predecessor did…

They didn’t give a shit about their privacy when the Patriot Act threatened it, but they woke up to scream about government health care and Big Brother.

They didn’t give a shit about the national debt when Bush was spending us down, but when Obama got to work, it became a nightmare.

And that’s all OK. I may not look at their protests with any particular respect, but they are free to run around all day long wearin’ fake white hair and yellin’.

When it starts to turn to vandalism they are subject to arrest.

Meanwhile, I would like to point out that the moobats have continued on their dingbatty but consistent course, making papier-mache models of the new president, and continuing to stubbornly march for Peace, Humanity, and Hamas. They may be horrifying, but they ain’t no hypocrites.

785 drcordell  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 6:10:57pm

re: #784 SanFranciscoZionist

They may be horrifying, but they ain’t no hypocrites.

Amen.

786 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 6:15:01pm

re: #311 alexknyc

What the hell is the matter with these people?

Nobody knows.

787 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 6:17:11pm

re: #330 RogueOne

I thought that read “pants”. Kinda grossed me out for a second.

Most women I know don’t lock their pants.

788 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 6:31:37pm

re: #787 SanFranciscoZionist

It could just be me.

789 Buck  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 6:41:56pm

FBI investigating death threat against andrew breitbart.

Who to blame? Who to blame?

790 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 8:02:36pm

re: #789 Buck

FBI investigating death threat against andrew breitbart.

Who to blame? Who to blame?

Uh….Bush?

791 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 24, 2010 11:09:03pm

re: #789 Buck

FBI investigating death threat against andrew breitbart.

Source? Linky?

Who to blame? Who to blame?

My guess would be Brietbrat himself, as the only source I can find for such a claim is Brietbrat’s own twitter post…

FBI investigating death threat against me. Should I do what left’d do & blame MSNBC/@mmfa/pro-#HCR movement? Or should I treat as isolated?

24 hour rule? Or maybe you just got suckered by that loon, A.B. Or maybe your post, without a source or link, is a poor attempt on your part to make some kind of point. Who knows?

792 sffilk  Thu, Mar 25, 2010 8:37:20am

re: #417 Spare O’Lake

No, but at $2.25/bottle it would be about $27.00 for a case of 12.

Crackling Rose, you’re a store-bought woman
But you make me sing like a guitar hummin’…

Actually, it’s “Cracklin’ Rosie.”

I’m a Neil Diamond fan going back 35+ years.

793 sffilk  Thu, Mar 25, 2010 8:38:40am

re: #414 cliffster

I said I’m sorry, dammit

(Dobby mode)

Bad cliffster! bad cliffster!!

(/Dobby mode)

(Dobby being the house elf from Harry Potter 2 who’d hit himself when he did something wrong)


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