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1 freetoken  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:57:11pm

Q:

Why should things be easy to understand?

A: Voters.

2 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:03:11pm

re: #1 freetoken

Q:

A: Voters.

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.” -Winston Churchill.

3 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:11:26pm

re: #2 ausador

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.” -Winston Churchill.

Man had a way with words.

4 Silvergirl  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:13:03pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Man had a way with words.

Wondering if he used his talent to write mocking poetry. Hoping not.

5 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:13:54pm

re: #4 Silvergirl

Wondering if he used his talent to write mocking poetry. Hoping not.

Churchill painted, and wrote prose of course, I don't know if he had any interest in verse.

6 laZardo  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:14:38pm

re: #1 freetoken

Q:

A: Voters.

"Having the thinking man's vote is good, but I need a majority to win." - Adlai Stevenson

7 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:17:29pm

re: #6 laZardo

"Having the thinking man's vote is good, but I need a majority to win." - Adlai Stevenson

A line he said without thinking. It did him a good bit of harm by making him look like an out-of-touch elitist.

8 Silvergirl  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:17:50pm

A little simplification would be the first step toward rational living, I think.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

9 Silvergirl  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:19:45pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

A line he said without thinking. It did him a good bit of harm by making him look like an out-of-touch elitist.

Good thing he didn't bring up the arugula. That would have done him in completely!

Good-night to all.

10 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:20:03pm

Has anyone posted about the Moscow bombings yet?

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

11 laZardo  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:21:00pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

A line he said without thinking. It did him a good bit of harm by making him look like an out-of-touch elitist.

Having lived through several elections here though, I guess it's one of those little 'facts of life' everyone knows inside but don't like to reveal.

12 Cato the Elder  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:21:06pm

Pynchon.

A friend of mine was hitchhiking up the California coast decades ago, and got a ride from a strange buck-toothed man in a beat-up Cadillac. Who invited him to spend the night. They did major amounts of Jamaican bud until the wee, wee hours, laughing their asses off over silly puns.

Several years later, my bud (who now directs shows for HBO) figured it out.

It was the elusive TP.

He never gave away the secret location, no matter how much single-malt I plied him with.

13 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:22:24pm

OK, I looked back, they have

14 laZardo  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:23:24pm

Brb lunch.

15 Lidane  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:24:47pm

What is grand is necessarily obscure to weak men. That which can be made explicit to the idiot is not worth my care. -- William Blake

And on that note, I'm off to bed. Some late night music before leaving, as well:

G'night Lizards! :)

16 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:25:02pm

re: #10 Conservative Moonbat

Has anyone posted about the Moscow bombings yet?

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

We were talking about it a little on the last thread.

My dad's going to be beside himself. Russia is one of his 'things'.

17 simoom  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:25:05pm

PomplamooseMusic covering Mrs. Robinson - Simon and Garfunkel

18 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:26:40pm

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

We were talking about it a little on the last thread.

My dad's going to be beside himself. Russia is one of his 'things'.

Repost about Chechnya from the last thread:

The latest Russian tactic has been to bring back 2 armored trains to patrol the rail lines in the area. They carry 23mm automatic cannon and combat vehicles (mostly BMP-2s). It also allows rapid movement of heavy weapons to areas where terrorist are found in numbers.

19 Joo-LiZ  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:26:55pm

re: #10 Conservative Moonbat

Has anyone posted about the Moscow bombings yet?

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Was just gonna post about it:

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

20 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:28:02pm

re: #10 Conservative Moonbat

Veronika Smolskaya, Moscow Emergency Ministry spokeswoman, said 22 people were killed in the first blast, at the Lubyanka station in central Moscow.

The station is underneath the building that houses the main offices of the Federal Security Service, the KGB's main successor agency.

So they hit the station that is underneath the FSB offices? Looks like someone just threw down the gauntlet, ballsy but stupid. Knowing the Russians they are going to pick it right up and smack the hell out of someone with it.

21 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:31:00pm

re: #20 ausador

So they hit the station that is underneath the FSB offices? Looks like someone just threw down the gauntlet, ballsy but stupid. Knowing the Russians they are going to pick it right up and smack the hell out of someone with it.

True. For terror attacks like this, Russia uses torture for interrogations. Any members of a terror cell they capture will suffer horrifically.

22 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:39:38pm

I'm going to bed now. Sleep well, all.

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:43:56pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to bed now. Sleep well, all.

Night, D_F.

24 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:44:17pm

Nite DF. :)

25 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:46:38pm

For everyone that says the US has been "heavy handed" in Iraq and Afghanistan I just have to point to how Russia has handled the Chechnyians. Jesus. We might as well have been buying everybody ice cream in Iraq.

26 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:46:47pm
27 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:47:33pm

re: #25 Conservative Moonbat

For everyone that says the US has been "heavy handed" in Iraq and Afghanistan I just have to point to how Russia has handled the Chechnyians. Jesus. We might as well have been buying everybody ice cream in Iraq.

Yes, and against us, the world marched in the streets.

Against Russia, everyone went "Mmmm."

28 Barrett Brown  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:48:06pm

Howdy, all-

For those of you who remember me, uh, howdy again. For those who don't, I've worked with Charles on some things such as getting Robert Stacy McCain exposed as a white supremacist (although we seem to have accidentally helped him get back on with the Washington Times by doing so, lollimus maximus), and did a profile on him for Vanity Fair; I also write for HuffPo, Skeptic, Skeptical Inquirer, True/Slant, and now The New York Observer.

At the end of the VF profile, I alluded to a project with which Charles is working with me, and which I'm about to announce more formerly. Project PM is an effort to increase the reach and influence of the better portions of the blogosphere while also reducing the influence of such commentators as Thomas Friedman and Charles Krauthammer along with other pundits and outlets which have failed to properly perform their duties in informing the citizenry. The project is centered around a network of bloggers, both independent and associated with mainstream outlets, and chosen by virtue of their intellectual honesty and competence. The network differs largely from existing mediums, and we believe that its unique structure, coupled with its participants, has the potential to make a significant impact on information flow.

In addition to the blogger network - which will begin with a core group of people like former Newsweek Baghdad correspondent Michael Hastings and Huffington Post blogger and radio host Allison Kilkenny, I'm establishing a sub-network of non-bloggers to serve as a legislative body which will make necessary decisions as they arise as well as to incubate new ideas, monitor the manner in which the blogger network operates, and otherwise taking over from myself at some point after we launch a couple of months from now. I'm interested in having LGF readers serving in this sub-network along with others I've already brought on (note that joining does not entail any time commitment at all; participants need not participate, as the network won't suffer from it) as well as in recruiting anyone with certain useful skill sets such as programming or anyone else who'd like to help out, if only by spreading the word.

Some details may be found here, or feel free to contact me with any questions you may have. Thanks for your time.

29 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:52:51pm

re: #28 Barrett Brown

I already emailed you about that after your DKos post and have been meaning to respond to your response.

30 laZardo  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:56:39pm

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, and against us, the world marched in the streets.

Against Russia, everyone went "Mmmm."

"Because that's kinda how the Russians have always handled things. It's a legacy of their heavy-handed Soviet days."

/

//lolputins are funny tho

31 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:57:50pm

re: #28 Barrett Brown

[snip]

... while also reducing the influence of such commentators as Thomas Friedman and Charles Krauthammer along with other pundits and outlets which have failed to properly perform their duties in informing the citizenry.

[snip]

I imagine that about now, Friedman and Krauthammer are quaking in their boots and "other pundits and outlets" are folding up their tents and slinking off into obscurity.

32 Barrett Brown  Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:58:51pm

re: #29 Conservative Moonbat

Great, take your time, and thanks again for getting involved.

33 stayfrosty  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:01:34am

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, and against us, the world marched in the streets.

Against Russia, everyone went "Mmmm."

Too true.

34 stayfrosty  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:03:05am

What's wrong with Charles Krauthammer?

35 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:04:52am

re: #28 Barrett Brown

Does your compensation package include gold-plated medical coverage?

36 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:05:34am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

I appreciate you alerting me to the fact that this probably won't bring down every problematic media institution, but we're already quite aware of this, which is why our focus is on simply raising awareness of those deficits by way of the collaboration of a great number of commentators with a collectively large audience and acting in such a way as to prompt mainstream outlets to address certain problems with other mainstream outlets. If you'd like to learn more, please check out the link.

37 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:05:50am

re: #35 Spare O'Lake

Does your compensation package include gold-plated medical coverage?

Cadillac plan.

38 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:08:49am

re: #34 stayfrosty

He has been wrong about every U.S. military question of the last 12 years and plenty else besides without having ever taken responsibility for this, and is demonstrably inconsistent in his assertions from column to column. See my Vanity Fair piece on him; my upcoming book includes about 20,000 words on his other failures.

39 stayfrosty  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:09:46am

re: #38 Barrett Brown

I'll check it out. Thanks for the linkage.

40 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:10:32am

re: #35 Spare O'Lake

There's no compensation involved for anyone involved, as there is no income; participants get involved as a means to improve the media and thus the knowledge of the electorate.

41 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:10:41am

re: #38 Barrett Brown

He has been wrong about every U.S. military question of the last 12 years and plenty else besides without having ever taken responsibility for this, and is demonstrably inconsistent in his assertions from column to column. See my Vanity Fair piece on him; my upcoming book includes about 20,000 words on his other failures.

Sounds like quite the vendetta.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:14:50am

The husband and I watched District 9 this evening.

43 stayfrosty  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:15:24am

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

The husband and I watched District 9 this evening.

Good flick. I enjoyed it.

44 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:17:08am

re: #41 Spare O'Lake

Well, I was asked to do a book on notable pundits who damage the understanding of the citizenry by way of incompetence and intellectual dishonesty, and found that Krauthammer fits the bill. Insomuch as that I had more material than could fit even in a long chapter, I decided to write an article on him as well. It's not a vendetta in the sense that I have something personal against him; I just happen to be a writer who's been looking into the question of whether or not those who have been granted a large degree of influence are using that influence in a way that actually assists the public in coming to life-and-death decisions.

45 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:18:31am

re: #44 Barrett Brown

Well, I was asked to do a book on notable pundits who damage the understanding of the citizenry by way of incompetence and intellectual dishonesty, and found that Krauthammer fits the bill. Insomuch as that I had more material than could fit even in a long chapter, I decided to write an article on him as well. It's not a vendetta in the sense that I have something personal against him; I just happen to be a writer who's been looking into the question of whether or not those who have been granted a large degree of influence are using that influence in a way that actually assists the public in coming to life-and-death decisions.

No Thomas Friedman?

46 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:21:07am

re: #44 Barrett Brown

Krauthammer is a great friend of Israel. For that reason he is and will remain in my good books.

47 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:22:19am

re: #45 Conservative Moonbat

No Thomas Friedman?

Certainly, I did a chapter on him and have also written several articles on his various failings, as I consider him to be most emblematic of the problem we have with commentators being unaccountable for repeated mistakes (a pundit made is rarely unmade); even so, I've still got plenty of material left over. He's an extraordinarily sloppy fellow with an unfortunate tendency towards hypocrisy.

48 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:22:48am

re: #4 Silvergirl

Wondering if he used his talent to write mocking poetry. Hoping not.

What, pray, do you have against mockery?

It is the very life's blood of de-mock-racy.

49 TheMatrix31  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:23:06am

re: #44 Barrett Brown

So which other "notable pundits" have you investigated and found to be damaging?

50 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:25:39am

re: #46 Spare O'Lake

Krauthammer is a great friend of Israel. For that reason he is and will remain in my good books.

That's fine. My work is generally intended for those whose opinions on commentators hinge on the quality and honesty of their output, which is to say it's not for everyone.

51 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:27:54am

re: #28 Barrett Brown

I thoroughly approve of anything that would bring Tom Friedman down a notch or ten.

But do you think it's wise to shoot your bolt before the lightning's primed?

52 laZardo  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:28:52am

re: #51 Cato the Elder

But do you think it's wise to shoot your bolt before the lightning's primed?

In bed?

53 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:31:03am

re: #49 TheMatrix31

So which other "notable pundits" have you investigated and found to be damaging?

I try to stay away from the most blatantly ridiculous ones, although James Dobson is in there along with his various cohorts as well as a few politicians like Mitt Romney. The book also has chapters on William Bennett, P.J. O'Rourke, Robert Stacy McCain (more for what it says about the conservative blogosphere that he's still acceptable despite what Charles and others have dug up on him rather than his prominence, which is relatively minor), and Martin Peretz. Aside from the book, I've been going after some other folks here and there.

54 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:31:21am

re: #50 Barrett Brown

That's fine. My work is generally intended for those whose opinions on commentators hinge on the quality and honesty of their output, which is to say it's not for everyone.

I didn't mean to imply that I am not interested in honest, non-partisan investigative journalism.

55 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:32:57am

re: #51 Cato the Elder

I thoroughly approve of anything that would bring Tom Friedman down a notch or ten.

But do you think it's wise to shoot your bolt before the lightning's primed?

Which bolt and which lightning? I had to make an early announcement of Project PM due to something which happened earlier this week regarding Wikileaks, though a more comprehensive (and reader-friendly) manifesto will be going up soon; are you referring to something else?

56 TheMatrix31  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:36:02am

re: #54 Spare O'Lake

Of course you didnt. That's just how the spin goes.

57 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:36:31am

re: #54 Spare O'Lake

I didn't mean to imply that I am not interested in honest, non-partisan investigative journalism.

Well, I'm not doing investigative journalism in this case, but rather criticism. I get it, though.

58 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:38:30am

Ahh, the unintentional comedy gold quotes of FSTDT are always a great boredom reliever.

First a fine example of proper "Christian" sentiment?...

(On the passing of former Secretary of the Interior and environmentalist Stewart Udall)

I hope he enjoys his eternity in Hell. Let this be a lesson to democrats everywhere. Get right with Jesus or go to Hell. This man is, right now, screaming for God to save him. He is covered in flames and being sodomised by fire daemons over and over again and it will never stop. It will go on for an eternity.

Then of course onto some homophobic disinformation...

Gay marriage was the idea of far left politicians who needed another victim group to keep their funds and offices in place. I never heard hard working gays say they wanted to be Betty Crocker, it's just the "in your face" losers looking for their share of social service hand outs. In my humble opinion.

And the day wouldn't be complete without a little Muslim bashing to round it out...

I was going through a couple magazines down the local mosque the other day, I was really enjoying myself.............. then the rifle jammed.


It never ceases to amaze me how stupid and hateful the things people will say on the internet are, (or how funny they can be without even trying). Every time I go to FSTDT I find at least one thing that makes me literally LOL, schadenfreude anyone?

59 Olsonist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:39:03am

re: #45 Conservative Moonbat

Friedman is nicer (blander?) about it but I can't recall him ever being, as a old prof of mine would have put it, right as hell! about anything. Anything.

60 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:41:35am

re: #28 Barrett Brown

Agree that both Friedman and Krauthammer are overexposed compared to the quality of what they actually deliver.

Putting together a new network of bloggers to try and influence the public discourse sounds like a big challenge.

Good luck.

61 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:42:53am

re: #55 Barrett Brown

Which bolt and which lightning? I had to make an early announcement of Project PM due to something which happened earlier this week regarding Wikileaks, though a more comprehensive (and reader-friendly) manifesto will be going up soon; are you referring to something else?

Regarding Friedman, you write: "He's an extraordinarily sloppy fellow with an unfortunate tendency towards hypocrisy."

Sloppy, yes, indeed. And one of the greatest patters-of-self-on-back since Francis Fukuyama.

But I don't think hypocrisy is his major failing. He's far too self-enamored for that. His greatest weakness, the thing to which he is most prey, is sheer silliness.

Here's my 2001 Amazon review of his ridiculous book "The Lexus and the Olive Tree: Understanding Globalization."

Gotta getta Lexus (or be run over), March 23, 2001

What a marvelous concept, "the golden straitjacket" reaching "critical mass"! How lucky we are to live in an age when gifted seers can mix such delirious metaphorical cocktails and have the op-ed establishment purvey them as divine elixir! "One size fits all" is fine, if the size happens to be yours, right? Why shouldn't you be comfortable on the bed of Procrustes if you can snuggle down in it without doing violence to your physique? As for those poor benighted countries whose olive trees get in the way of the roads a Lexus needs to roll down on its triumphal tour of the globe, they'll soon learn to appreciate the blessings of universal Americanization. Once those stupid trees are lopped down and the highways plowed through, the "slow world" will forget all about its futile particularism! And then the prophet of Foreign Affairs (soon to be renamed simply "Affairs", since, after all, the walls have come tumbling down) will be hailed as the oracular flag-bearer of the glorious New Dawn. Thank you for ripping the scales from our eyes, o wise and beneficent one. We'll stop complaining at once, and learn to love the Lexi...

What Friedman requires is not debunking, but good old-fashioned butt-thrashing mockery. Do let me know if you'd like my assistance. My nick is blue.

62 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:46:51am

re: #60 freetoken

Thanks. As I mentioned, a lot of what we hope to achieve will be made possible by the particular dynamics of the network, which we think will be an improvement on existing mediums insomuch as that it takes into account various negative dynamics that have become evident in other internet-based networks ranging from Daily Kos to reddit to memeorandum Pajamas Media. The network will be able to expand in such a way as to minimize the negative results that occur when lesser bloggers are brought in, for example; it should be able to grow a great deal without being noticeably watered down or unwieldy.

63 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:52:40am

re: #61 Cato the Elder

I agree that hypocrisy is not his major failing; Bennett and Krauthammer are far more prone to that than is Friedman. I also agree that silliness is his particular problem. He has a tendency to invent metaphors and other various literary devices and then force the facts into these models after the, uh, fact.

Here's a piece I did on him a little while ago, excerpted from the book. Here's another one. There are, like, half a dozen more.

64 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:52:47am

re: #62 Barrett Brown

Given the real divide between cultures within our society, not to mention the segmentation between those who dependably read online blogs vs. the tweeters vs. the (mostly older folks who) rely on television and radio, you've got quite a job on your hands.

Krauthammer and Friedman can get on just about any TV show.

Of course, then you will be up against the monied interests who use all possible outlets to maneuver the political discussion into the correct direction...

Integrity in journalism, and honesty in the public discourse - big ideas, big challenge.

65 walahi  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 1:01:24am
66 Walahi  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 1:07:57am

More coverage from the Beeb

Absolutely horrendous. My heart goes out to the victims.

67 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 1:18:57am

re: #41 Spare O'Lake

Sounds like quite the vendetta.

*rolls eyes*

68 Bubblehead II  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 2:20:29am

Morning Lizards

69 Bubblehead II  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 2:46:59am

Dog Eats Police Car

A better title would be "Dog mauls Police Car". This is what happens when you buy a car with cheap plastic bumpers

70 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 2:57:31am

Some photos from cameras inside Lubyanka Station in Moscow.

[Link: www.metro.co.uk...]

Seems the Islamists used female suicide bombers, again. Next we will hear about how their husbands or fathers or brothers were killed by the Russians previously, again, as if that justifies it.

Now the whole circle of violence starts over because you know Russia is going to enact some form of retaliation. Sigh...radical Islam sure is causing a lot of people an awful lot of harm, on both sides of the conflict. One continues to hope that perhaps it's surviving adherants will one day wake up and see it for what it is, evil.

71 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:00:01am

A POWERFUL bomb has exploded in front of an institute for training public officials in the west of Athens, killing a 15-year-old boy and injuring a girl and her mother.

The boy was killed on the spot while his 10-year-old sister was seriously wounded and their mother escaped with slight injuries.

Police said the family, Afghan nationals, had probably been walking past the building when the explosion occurred.

The Civil Protection ministry later released a statement saying the boy stumbled upon a bag in a garbage bin that contained the bomb.

SNIP

The last attack to have injured anyone was in October 2009, when six police officers were wounded in a machine gun attack on a police station.

Greece has been rocked by a string of attacks against economic interests and offices of politicians since a youth was killed by a police officer in December 2008.

A Greek extremist group last Monday claimed responsibility for three bomb attacks over the weekend that caused damage to the offices of a neo-Nazi movement, the home of a Pakistani and migration offices.

The group, the Conspiracy of the Cells of Fire, said in a message posted on the left-leaning Indymedia website the attacks were a contribution to the ongoing debate in the country on immigration.

SNIP

72 Stonemason  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:02:17am

re: #64 freetoken

Of course, then you will be up against the monied interests who use all possible outlets to maneuver the political discussion into the correct direction...

and who decides what the correct direction is? It seems that anything that leans right (and yes, I went and read some of your stuff) is incorrect.

I always worry when someone claims to be the one to 'fix' things based on some arbitrary set of rules created by the fixer.

73 Bubblehead II  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:02:52am

My response to the nut jobs on the right.

Red Rider - Lunatic Fringe

Lyrics

Lunatic Fringe
from the Red Rider LP "As Far As Siam"

Lunatic fringe
I know you're out there
You're in hiding
And you hold your meetings
We can hear you coming
We know what you're after
We're wise to you this time
We won't let you kill the laughter.

Lunatic fringe
In the twilight's last gleaming
This is open season
But you won't get too far
We know you've got to blame someone
For your own confusion
But we're on guard this time
Against your final solution

We can hear you coming
(We can hear you coming)
No you're not going to win this time
We can hear the footsteps
(We can hear the footsteps)
Way out along the walkway
Lunatic fringe
We know you're out there
But in these new dark ages
There will still be light

An eye for an eye;
Well before you go under...
Can you feel the resistance?
Can you feel the thunder?

74 Stonemason  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:04:58am

re: #72 Stonemason

Not Freetoken's stuff, Barret Brown's stuff.

(for clarification)

75 Bubblehead II  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:06:06am

Morning Mandy.

76 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:07:39am

re: #75 Bubblehead II

Good morning, Bubblehead!

77 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:09:00am

Former US ambassador to the UN John Bolton expressed concern Sunday that Washington was coming to terms with a nuclear Iran.

“I very much worry the Obama administration is willing to accept a nuclear Iran, that's why there's this extraordinary pressure on Israel not to attack in Iran,” Bolton told Army Radio.

The former envoy claimed that this pressure was the focus of last week's meetings in Washington between Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyhau and US officials, including President Barack Obama.

Bolton said that the Obama administration had embraced the view, prevalent in Europe, that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was the key to the resolution of all other conflicts throughout the Middle East, including the Iranian conflict.

He added that the rift in US-Israel relations stemmed from a fundamental difference in the understanding of the Middle East and Israel's role in the Middle East, and is not really about east Jerusalem at all.

Bolton said that the treatment Netanyahu received during his visit "should tell the people of Israel how difficult it's going to be dealing with Washington for the next couple of years."

SNIP

78 Bubblehead II  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:15:41am

re: #76 MandyManners

I hope today finds you and the kid well.

79 gegenkritik  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:16:27am

Moscow Metro hit by deadly suicide bombings

I wonder which religious background those two suicide-bombers had?

80 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:17:44am

re: #79 gegenkritik

Moscow Metro hit by deadly suicide bombings

I wonder which religious background those two suicide-bombers had?

Seventh-day Adventist?

/

81 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:18:17am

Venezuela's highest court on Sunday barred an outspoken opponent of President Hugo Chavez from talking to news media about criminal charges alleging he struck a police official.

The Supreme Court's order prohibits lawmaker Wilmer Azuaje from "talking in relation to the present issue through any media outlet," including television, radio, newspapers or the Internet.

It said the measure is meant to protect the "reputation, integrity and honor of the victim."

The court order comes as a chorus of Chavez critics and human rights groups are accusing the government of increasingly using the courts to punish its adversaries while ignoring other allegedly illegal acts by the socialist leader's allies.

Chavez rejects such accusations.

SNIP

82 Bubblehead II  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:19:03am

Another Chinese Coal Mine incident.

153 trapped in China coal mine

You would think that by now they would have learned proper safety methods.

/Hell life is cheap and they have so many to spare.

83 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:19:22am

re: #78 Bubblehead II

I hope today finds you and the kid well.

I'm up before the sun as usual and am enjoying the peace.

I hope today finds you and yours well.

84 gegenkritik  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:20:13am

Has the Obama Administration, Against U.S. Interests, Declared Diplomatic War on Israel?

By Barry Rubin
March 29, 2010

Up to now my view has been that the U.S. government didn't want a crisis but merely sought to get indirect negotiations going between Israel and Palestinians in order to look good.
Even assuming this limited goal, the technique was to keep getting concessions from Israel without asking the PA to do or give anything has been foolish, but at least it was a generally rational strategy.
But now it has become reasonable to ask whether the Obama White House is running amuck on Israel, whether it is pushing friction so far out of proportion that it is starting to seem a vendetta based on hostility and ideology. And if that's true, there is little Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu or any Israeli leader can do to fix the problem.
A partial explanation of such behavior can be called, to borrow a phrase from the health law debate, a "single-payer option" as its Middle East strategy. That is, the administration seems to envision Israel paying for everything: supposedly to get the Palestinian Authority (PA) to talks, do away with any Islamist desire to carry out terrorism or revolution, keep Iraq quiet, make Afghanistan stable, and solve just about any other global problem.
What makes this U.S. tactic even more absurd is doing so at the very moment when it is coddling Syria and losing the battle for anything but the most minimal sanctions on Iran.
During his visit to Washington, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tried to defuse the tension. His partners in government, we should never forget, are Defense Minister Ehud Barak, leader of the Labour Party, and President Shimon Peres, who has done more to promote Middle East peace than any other living Israeli leader.
But according to reliable sources, Obama went out of his way to be personally hostile, treating Netanyahu like some colonial minion who could be ordered around. ...

85 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:20:56am

re: #80 ausador

Seventh-day Adventist?

/

A Scientologist with a badly done audit.

86 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:21:43am

re: #82 Bubblehead II

Another Chinese Coal Mine incident.

153 trapped in China coal mine

You would think that by now they would have learned proper safety methods.

/Hell life is cheap and they have so many to spare.

But, BHO admires their infrastructure.

87 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:32:06am

re: #86 MandyManners

But, BHO admires their infrastructure.

I'm betting 153 Chinese do not right now...

Good Morning Lizardkind! I must run for now. Kid delivery and such. I am a house husband for 2 weeks until I magically transform into a staff weenie.

88 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:33:39am

The man who put the dude in prostidude has left the brothel business, but the Shady Lady Ranch vows to press on without him.

Though the Nye County bordello 150 miles northwest of Las Vegas has temporarily stopped servicing women, owner Bobbi Davis said she isn't ready to give up on her groundbreaking foray into legal male prostitution.

"We're just taking a little break," she said.

Markus, the Shady Lady's first stud for hire, called it quits a few weeks ago after drawing fewer than 10 customers. Since then, the workload has been shouldered by a Las Vegas man in his mid-30s who -- Davis swears she's not making this up -- performs under the name "Y. Not."

SNIP

89 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:36:48am

re: #84 gegenkritik

Has the Obama Administration, Against U.S. Interests, Declared Diplomatic War on Israel?

Rubin doesn't "heart" the NYT.

The New York Times has now crossed the line from being a grossly slanted newspaper in its Middle East coverage to being one so partisan, blinkered, and defensive as to lose its value altogether. I do not write this lightly and have no wish to exaggerate. But the newspaper’s editorial of March 26 is so mendacious, so made up to suit the political purposes of the Obama administration without any reference to the facts that it is a work of politically tailored fiction.

SNIP

90 Bubblehead II  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:38:11am

re: #83 MandyManners

I'm up before the sun as usual and am enjoying the peace.

I hope today finds you and yours well.

Same here. The Wife just accused me of spoiling her. Since I get home before she wakes up, I have a cup of coffee (1 pack Splenda and a dash of Vanilla Carmel Creamer) prepared for her. Just have to add the hot water and deliver. No it's not per say "instant" coffee. It's a toddy

As for the accusation of spoiling her? My response was, Isn't that what I am supposed to do?

91 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:47:24am

re: #90 Bubblehead II

Same here. The Wife just accused me of spoiling her. Since I get home before she wakes up, I have a cup of coffee (1 pack Splenda and a dash of Vanilla Carmel Creamer) prepared for her. Just have to add the hot water and deliver. No it's not per say "instant" coffee. It's a toddy

As for the accusation of spoiling her? My response was, Isn't that what I am supposed to do?

I'm off coffee. No matter how I mixed de-caff and caff, I always wound up with too much caffeine and a buzz in my ears. I start my day with a cuppa' tea.

92 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 3:48:57am

re: #91 MandyManners

I'm off coffee. No matter how I mixed de-caff and caff, I always wound up with too much caffeine and a buzz in my ears. I start my day with a cuppa' tea.

Speaking of which,...


93 Bubblehead II  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:00:20am

re: #91 MandyManners

I'm off coffee. No matter how I mixed de-caff and caff, I always wound up with too much caffeine and a buzz in my ears. I start my day with a cuppa' tea.

Tea is good. You still get the caffeine, but it is not so much in your face as some coffee or energy drink/pills. Plus you have the olfactory pleasure as well. Coffee, well it smells like, Coffee. Tea on the other hand, well you have a wide variety of choices.

Caffeine Content Of Popular Drinks

94 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:01:30am

re: #79 gegenkritik

Moscow Metro hit by deadly suicide bombings

I wonder which religious background those two suicide-bombers had?

Russian police have killed several Islamic militant leaders in the North Caucasus recently, including one last week in the Kabardino-Balkariya region. The killing of Anzor Astemirov was mourned by contributors to two al-Qaida-affiliated Web sites.

The killings have raised fears of retaliatory strikes by the militants.

95 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:02:25am
96 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:04:51am

re: #93 Bubblehead II

Tea is good. You still get the caffeine, but it is not so much in your face as some coffee or energy drink/pills. Plus you have the olfactory pleasure as well. Coffee, well it smells like, Coffee. Tea on the other hand, well you have a wide variety of choices.

Caffeine Content Of Popular Drinks

Every now and then The Kid tries to get me to let him have a Red Bull. Considering his ADHD, no way. No how.

97 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:08:14am

re: #94 sattv4u2

Russian police have killed several Islamic militant leaders in the North Caucasus recently, including one last week in the Kabardino-Balkariya region. The killing of Anzor Astemirov was mourned by contributors to two al-Qaida-affiliated Web sites.

The killings have raised fears of retaliatory strikes by the militants.

The Chechens and Ingush have been treated like SHIT by the Russians for a long, long time. Don't get me started on Stalin's genocide.

98 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:08:40am

Here comes the spin. Sure took them long enough

Obama did not snub Israeli PM: Axelrod
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

"This was a working meeting among friends. And so there was no snub intended," White House senior adviser David Axelrod told CNN's State of the Union news program.

Axelrod noted that the two leaders had met in private for two hours and had better things to do with their time than
worry about protocol.

feh

99 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:16:39am

The Obama administration's pressure on Israel to curb settlement activity will bolster Palestinian hardliners and hinder peace efforts, a senior cabinet minister said on Monday.

Tensions with Washington flared three weeks ago, and have simmered unresolved since, over the announcement of an Israeli blueprint for 1,600 more homes for Jews in areas of the West Bank that Israel annexed to East Jerusalem.

The Palestinians, who want statehood in the West Bank and Gaza with a capital in East Jerusalem, backed out of planned U.S.-mediated peace talks with Israel, demanding the new project be scrapped.

Benny Begin, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's inner cabinet, described Washington's scrutiny on Jerusalem as departing from previous U.S. administrations' view that the city's status should be resolved in peace negotiations.

SNIP

100 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:18:13am

re: #97 MandyManners

The Chechens and Ingush have been treated like SHIT by the Russians for a long, long time. Don't get me started on Stalin's genocide.

I know the history
Even still, you don't blow yourself up in a crowded civilian subway

101 gegenkritik  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:19:47am

re: #94 sattv4u2

Thanks, but my question was sarcastic. If there's a suicide-bombing in the news, I normally just wait for the experts to explain that it has nothing to do with Islam, which is a religion of peace and so on.

And yes, Russia is an ugly autocratic-regime, for which I have no sympathy at all. If Israel would treat the Palestineans the way like Russia does with the Chechens, whole world would have invaded Israel.

Though, compared to the Islamic hell that many of their Chechen enemies want to create, Russia's still the better choice.

102 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:20:20am

re: #100 sattv4u2

I know the history
Even still, you don't blow yourself up in a crowded civilian subway

Hard to argue with that.

I wonder if the Saudis have been as busy spreading Wahhabism in that region as they have in the Balkans.

103 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:23:14am

re: #101 gegenkritik

Thanks, but my question was sarcastic.
I know ,, somehow my tag "It was the Amish" got lost

104 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:24:13am

re: #72 Stonemason

and who decides what the correct direction is? It seems that anything that leans right (and yes, I went and read some of your stuff) is incorrect.

I always worry when someone claims to be the one to 'fix' things based on some arbitrary set of rules created by the fixer.

I didn't write that which you're quoting. However, I'd be willing to address any specifics regarding things I've written here or at the Project PM summary linked above.

105 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:24:38am

DOGS 1
POLICE CAR 0

106 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:33:13am

A guy I work with was the number one, not the boss, although I worked for my boss years ago. Working this weekend, my boss remembered all I did for him years ago. (he knew, just forgot the little things) The guy that was ahead of me has been in the hospital for a week and at about 4 PM today will be having open heart surgery. I hope the best for him. Good morning.

107 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:35:17am

re: #72 Stonemason

I should mention, though, that I don't really go after anything that leans right, as I'm not a liberal. For instance, the main focus of the book is Thomas Friedman, and Richard Cohen makes up another chapter, and Martin Peretz still another. I do tend to go after conservatives more than liberals, partly because they come after me, partly because I write for pubs like Skeptic and Skeptical Inquirer and did my first book on creationism and intelligent design and of course the right tends to be more religious than the left, partly because I advocate gay rights, and otherwise because I see the right's modern manifestations as far more intellectually dishonest than those of the left, much as Charles Johnson does. See the Robert Stacy McCain affair, for instance.

108 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:37:11am

re: #107 Barrett Brown

Are you a Michael Shermer fan? (sp?)

109 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:40:50am

Morning all.

110 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:42:18am

re: #109 RogueOne

Morning all.

WTF is that suppose to mean?
/

111 Bubblehead II  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:44:31am

Lizards, It is time to call it a day

To the Lizard Nation

I hope this Day is Good

To my wife (whom I suspect looks in on me from time to time)

Hey, She is entitled .

For My Lady (Moody Blues cover) - The New Horizons

112 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:44:42am

re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar

WTF is that suppose to mean?
/

"you people"

113 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:45:02am

re: #109 RogueOne

Morning all.

What's shaking?

114 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:45:27am

re: #112 RogueOne

"you people"

We bitter clingers are doing fine!

115 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:49:59am

Tonight's dinner will be "wet burritos."
Ironically, tomorrow will be "wet fart" day. Heh.

116 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:52:12am

re: #101 gegenkritik

Thanks, but my question was sarcastic. If there's a suicide-bombing in the news, I normally just wait for the experts to explain that it has nothing to do with Islam, which is a religion of peace and so on.

Without more information we don't know if the bomber was a nationalist or an islamist. They're both working towards the same short-term goal, removal of russian forces and an independent state, but they have very different long-term visions. The majority of the resistance doesn't have any desire to establish a sharia-driven islamic state.

117 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:58:56am

Mornin', Lizards. Ugh, what crappy news to wake up to.

118 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:59:30am

re: #116 RogueOne

Without more information we don't know if the bomber was a nationalist or an islamist. They're both working towards the same short-term goal, removal of russian forces and an independent state, but they have very different long-term visions. The majority of the resistance doesn't have any desire to establish a sharia-driven islamic state.

I'm gonna' chalk this one up to Islamists. I've never heard of a Russain Orthodox woman blowing herself up in a subway. Or, anywhere else for that matter.

And, don't forget Beslan's perpetrators. They weren't Orthodox.

119 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:59:42am

Marco Rubio will win the Senate seat here in Florida. Sorry, Charlie.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

120 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:59:49am

re: #117 Dante41

Mornin', Lizards. Ugh, what crappy news to wake up to.

Indeed.

121 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 4:59:49am

Good morning lizards!

Some sad news from the sports world...

Pa. city losing hockey team, just like 'Slap Shot'

JOHNSTOWN, Pa. – In the 1977 cult hit movie "Slap Shot," when player/coach Reggie Dunlop learns his minor-league hockey team will fold, he boosts player morale by planting a phony story in the local paper: The Charlestown Chiefs are moving south.

And now, 22 years after they were founded in a moment of inspiration from the film, the real-life Johnstown Chiefs really are moving to Greenville, S.C.

But the move is doing anything but boosting the morale of this gritty town, where the economy and its people never recovered from the steel industry meltdown of the 1970s and the last of three titanic floods.

The movie, starring Paul Newman, was shot in Johnstown as a barely disguised homage to the beloved Johnstown Jets. The team folded the year the movie was released, after floodwaters damaged ice-making equipment at the team's riverside arena.

The Johnstown Chiefs were founded in 1988, and a succession of owners has labored to keep the team alive, largely because "Slap Shot" stoked interest in the city's tragicomic love affair with what the movie called "old-time hockey."

"'Slap Shot' was a big factor in me, personally, having the team here, owning the team," said majority owner and head coach Neil Smith, 56, who played for the New York Islanders' farm system. "I was fascinated by that: the original building, the small town, the whole thing."

Formerly the general manager who led the New York Rangers to their last Stanley Cup championship in 1994, Smith bought the cash-strapped Chiefs in 2002. He promised not to move them for at least two seasons but sought a local buyer sentimental enough to keep the team in town and rich enough to write off the team's perennial losses.

(Movie irony: The rich owner in "Slap Shot" folded the team as a tax write-off.)

122 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:01:44am

re: #118 MandyManners

I'm gonna' chalk this one up to Islamists. I've never heard of a Russain Orthodox woman blowing herself up in a subway. Or, anywhere else for that matter.

And, don't forget Beslan's perpetrators. They weren't Orthodox.

I heard it was 2 women. And Beslan was fucking disgusting. Islamist raping young girls for days, then killing them. Fucking monsters.

123 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:02:25am

re: #120 MandyManners

Indeed.

Yes. I honestly think I will just go back to bed after Stability class today, on the hope that if it gets worse I won't know about it.

124 gegenkritik  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:02:39am

re: #116 RogueOne

Without more information we don't know if the bomber was a nationalist or an islamist. They're both working towards the same short-term goal, removal of russian forces and an independent state, but they have very different long-term visions. The majority of the resistance doesn't have any desire to establish a sharia-driven islamic state.

What you call "resistance" is infact a bunch of rackets, who blow up civilians in a subway-station. This is the behavior of Islamic terrorists, not "nationalists".

And how do you know that "the majority" of what you call "resistance" does not want a peaceful sharia-driven islamic state? Have you spoke to all of them?

125 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:03:22am

re: #108 Cannadian Club Akbar

Are you a Michael Shermer fan? (sp?)

Yeah. I actually know him, as I write for Skeptic and he's the editor.

126 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:04:20am

re: #125 Barrett Brown

Yeah. I actually know him, as I write for Skeptic and he's the editor.

I saw that after I posted. I love that guy. And good for you!!:)

127 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:05:07am

re: #124 gegenkritik

What you call "resistance" is infact a bunch of rackets, who blow up civilians in a subway-station. This is the behavior of Islamic terrorists, not "nationalists".

And how do you know that "the majority" of what you call "resistance" does not want a peaceful sharia-driven islamic state? Have you spoke to all of them?

There is no such thing as "peaceful Sharia."

128 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:05:25am

re: #124 gegenkritik

What you call "resistance" is infact a bunch of rackets, who blow up civilians in a subway-station. This is the behavior of Islamic terrorists, not "nationalists".

And how do you know that "the majority" of what you call "resistance" does not want a peaceful sharia-driven islamic state? Have you spoke to all of them?

Honestly, I don't think Russian-Islamic tensions play into this. If they did, the Tartars would be doing things since they are the largest Russian Muslim population. However, they aren't. This looks to be just a grim new chapter of tactics from Chechnya.

129 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:07:18am

re: #128 Dante41

Honestly, I don't think Russian-Islamic tensions play into this. If they did, the Tartars would be doing things since they are the largest Russian Muslim population. However, they aren't. This looks to be just a grim new chapter of tactics from Chechnya.

After quick research, it appears that this isn't new at all.

Shahidka.

130 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:07:19am

re: #121 NJDhockeyfan

Top of the day to you, NJD!

131 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:08:10am

re: #122 Cannadian Club Akbar

I heard it was 2 women. And Beslan was fucking disgusting. Islamist raping young girls for days, then killing them. Fucking monsters.

Yes, it was two women.

132 gegenkritik  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:08:45am

re: #127 Cannadian Club Akbar
Of course there is. Islam is peace and so is Sharia.

133 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:08:59am

re: #123 Dante41

Yes. I honestly think I will just go back to bed after Stability class today, on the hope that if it gets worse I won't know about it.

Trust me: ignoring shit won't make it go away.

134 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:09:49am

re: #132 gegenkritik

Of course there is. Islam is peace and so is Sharia.

Sure they are....and I'm a Chinese astronaut!

135 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:10:28am

re: #127 Cannadian Club Akbar

There is no such thing as "peaceful Sharia."

Hard to pursue peace while subjugating women.

136 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:11:15am

re: #128 Dante41

Honestly, I don't think Russian-Islamic tensions play into this. If they did, the Tartars would be doing things since they are the largest Russian Muslim population. However, they aren't. This looks to be just a grim new chapter of tactics from Chechnya.

How can you deny the role of Islam?!

137 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:11:44am

re: #133 MandyManners

Trust me: ignoring shit won't make it go away.

I know. Part of it is simply I haven't got much sleep recently.

138 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:11:47am

re: #124 gegenkritik

What you call "resistance" is infact a bunch of rackets, who blow up civilians in a subway-station. This is the behavior of Islamic terrorists, not "nationalists".

And how do you know that "the majority" of what you call "resistance" does not want a peaceful sharia-driven islamic state? Have you spoke to all of them?

I keep in weekly contact with a variety of resistance cells weekly.//

Right now they're working under the premise "the enemy of my enemy....". Chechen Nationalists are not driven by their religion, they're driven by their desire for a free state and they don't have a problem with blowing themselves up to get it but right now they'll take what help they can get. This won't turn into an actual religious fueled war until after the Russians have been removed. Like I said, that's when it gets interesting.

139 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:12:26am

re: #136 MandyManners

How can you deny the role of Islam?!

I'm not denying it. I'm just saying that it isn't the sole cause.

140 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:12:51am

re: #129 Dante41

After quick research, it appears that this isn't new at all.

Shahidka.

There's the Wahabism connection.

141 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:12:52am

re: #28 Barrett Brown

"...while also reducing the influence of such commentators as Thomas Friedman and Charles Krauthammer along with other pundits and outlets which have failed to properly perform their duties in informing the citizenry"

And who are you to decide that which others have failed at, and are not worthy their voice?

This doesn't pass the smell test.

142 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:13:19am

re: #137 Dante41

I know. Part of it is simply I haven't got much sleep recently.

So, get some. Sleep deprivation is a pretty serious condition.

143 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:16:11am

re: #142 MandyManners

So, get some. Sleep deprivation is a pretty serious condition.

I would, but I have formation (and a Dress Whites inspection) in 15 minutes, and then a STCW class an hour after that. Can't go to sleep until all of those are done, but I will as soon as they are.

144 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:16:45am

Ex-Scientology lawsuits reveal elite Sea Org group

SAN JACINTO, Calif. – At the edge of arid foothills far outside Los Angeles, hundreds of Scientology followers live on a gated, 500-acre campus and work long hours for almost no pay reproducing the works of founder L. Ron Hubbard and creating the church's teaching and promotional materials.

The church says its 5,000 so-called Sea Organization members are religious devotees akin to monks who are exempt from wage requirements and overtime. But two lawsuits filed by two former Sea Org members, as they are known, allege the workers are little more than slave laborers, forced to work 100-hour weeks for pennies and threatened with manual labor if they cause trouble.

Marc Headley and his wife, Claire, are seeking back pay and overtime that could add up to $1 million each, according to their attorney, Barry Van Sickle.

Experts say the plaintiffs face an uphill battle; one similar lawsuit in state court has already been dismissed, although the plaintiff plans to appeal.

But the dispute has nonetheless focused unwelcome attention on the Sea Org, which operates as a nerve center for the church's most important business. While Sea Org members hold positions of authority within the international church, from the public relations team to the top leadership, lower-ranking members make up much of the work force.

The members are Scientology's most devoted followers: they sign a billion-year pledge, vow not to have children and live and work communally.

145 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:16:54am

re: #139 Dante41

I'm not denying it. I'm just saying that it isn't the sole cause.

Chechens and Ingush have resisted the occupying Rusians and Ossetians for a long time. This is a new tactic. (See my No. 102 for the spread of Wahabism.)

146 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:17:23am

A guy on my radio is defending the Pope, saying that most of the abuse cases were handled on a local level. He also said he doesn't think the Pope will step down. He also sounds like he is out of breath. I don't trust people who sound like that.

147 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:17:27am

Gotta' git.

148 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:18:40am

re: #147 MandyManners

Gotta' git.

Bye....have a great Monday!

149 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:19:51am

Health overhaul likely to strain doctor shortage

WASHINGTON – Better beat the crowd and find a doctor.

Primary care physicians already are in short supply in parts of the country, and the landmark health overhaul that will bring them millions more newly insured patients in the next few years promises extra strain.

The new law goes beyond offering coverage to the uninsured, with steps to improve the quality of care for the average person and help keep us well instead of today's seek-care-after-you're-sick culture. To benefit, you'll need a regular health provider.

Yet recently published reports predict a shortfall of roughly 40,000 primary care doctors over the next decade, a field losing out to the better pay, better hours and higher profile of many other specialties. Provisions in the new law aim to start reversing that tide, from bonus payments for certain physicians to expanded community health centers that will pick up some of the slack.

A growing movement to change how primary care is practiced may do more to help with the influx. Instead of the traditional 10-minutes-with-the-doc-style office, a "medical home" would enhance access with a doctor-led team of nurses, physician assistants and disease educators working together; these teams could see more people while giving extra attention to those who need it most.

150 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:19:51am

re: #145 MandyManners

Chechens and Ingush have resisted the occupying Rusians and Ossetians for a long time. This is a new tactic. (See my No. 102 for the spread of Wahabism.)

True. I am just saying that other larger Islamic minorities in Russia get along just swimmingly with the Russians without doing things like this.

Also, I have to leave for that Dress Whites inspection that I mentioned earlier. Be back in about 35 minutes.

151 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:33:37am

re: #146 Cannadian Club Akbar

A guy on my radio is defending the Pope, saying that most of the abuse cases were handled on a local level. He also said he doesn't think the Pope will step down. He also sounds like he is out of breath. I don't trust people who sound like that.

Is it Bill Donohue of the Catholic League?
I don't trust him either.

152 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:36:21am

re: #151 reine.de.tout

Is it Bill Donohue of the Catholic League?
I don't trust him either.

No. Wasn't him. But the guy definitely had an agenda.

153 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:40:09am

re: #152 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. Wasn't him. But the guy definitely had an agenda.

Donohue often sounds breathless, and he's usually red-in-the-face angry, but not about the things he should be angry about.

The Pope is head of the church; it falls squarely on his shoulders to properly handle (or not handle) the sex abuse cases. And IMO, the Vatican just continues to be blind as to the depth of the problem, as well as causes for the problem and as to the utter devastation these incidents bring to young people. It's protection of priests to the detriment of the people of the Catholic Church.

154 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:46:24am

re: #136 MandyManners

How can you deny the role of Islam?!

Nothing has anything to do with Islam anymore.
Chechnyan terrorism - nyet
Pali terrorism - nope
Iranian nukes - nah

Good Morning LGF

155 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:46:36am

re: #153 reine.de.tout

I've seen him on TV. I know what you're saying. The guy on my radio was just relentless in protecting the Pope. The Pope could set a cat on fire and the guy would make an excuse for it.

156 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:48:08am

re: #150 Dante41

True. I am just saying that other larger Islamic minorities in Russia get along just swimmingly with the Russians without doing things like this.

Also, I have to leave for that Dress Whites inspection that I mentioned earlier. Be back in about 35 minutes.

Dante,
Are you in the Navy?

157 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:49:09am

re: #156 rwdflynavy

Dante,
Are you in the Navy?

That's what I was wondering, since it is spring and all.

158 laZardo  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 5:53:11am

re: #156 rwdflynavy

Dante,
Are you in the Navy?

[resisting temptation to post the Village People]

159 gegenkritik  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:00:45am

re: #138 RogueOne

Right now they're working under the premise "the enemy of my enemy...". Chechen Nationalists are not driven by their religion, they're driven by their desire for a free state and they don't have a problem with blowing themselves up to get it but right now they'll take what help they can get. This won't turn into an actual religious fueled war until after the Russians have been removed. Like I said, that's when it gets interesting.


How many other conflicts do you know where people "driven by the desire for a free state" blew themselves up? Please list only those, where the brave freedom-fighters are not Muslims.

160 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:00:49am

Video of the aftermath of the splodydopes in Russia.
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

161 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:01:34am

Best wishes for a happy Passover holiday to all Jewish lizards.
And a special request for whoever is leading the Seder Service tonight at the White House: Please don't forget to stress the eternal prayer of the Jewish people - "L'Shana Haba'a B'Yerushalayim" (Next Year In Jerusalem).
BBL.

162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:04:36am

Internet ain't workin' at home this morning; drive by HOWDY KNUCKLEHEADS!

163 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:06:02am

re: #162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Internet ain't workin' at home this morning; drive by HOWDY KNUCKLEHEADS!

Are you at a donut shop with WiFi?

164 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:06:41am

re: #144 NJDhockeyfan

Ex-Scientology lawsuits reveal elite Sea Org group

I love the 'billion-year pledge' part.

165 srb1976  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:08:06am

Morning!! Don't have enough dynamite yet to get Little Man out of bed.....have to give a few minutes to get his eyes lined up with the holes = )

Hope everyone is well!!

166 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:09:13am

re: #162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Internet ain't workin' at home this morning; drive by HOWDY KNUCKLEHEADS!

Howdy, FBV.

167 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:10:04am

re: #164 Aceofwhat?

I love the 'billion-year pledge' part.

I wish those fuckers would knock on my door.

168 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:11:13am

re: #141 Ericus58

"...while also reducing the influence of such commentators as Thomas Friedman and Charles Krauthammer along with other pundits and outlets which have failed to properly perform their duties in informing the citizenry"

And who are you to decide that which others have failed at, and are not worthy their voice?

This doesn't pass the smell test.

I'm a citizen, just like everyone else who thinks very little of certain other citizens and seeks to point out the flaws in their reasoning so that others won't be taken in by them - for instance, that thing you're doing right now.

169 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:18:14am

re: #156 rwdflynavy

Dante,
Are you in the Navy?

Nah. Texas Maritime Academy. I've mentioned before that I was going to school to get my Third Mate's license.

Or in other words: Not Navy, Merchie-in-Training.

170 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:18:17am

re: #168 Barrett Brown

I'm a citizen, just like everyone else who thinks very little of certain other citizens and seeks to point out the flaws in their reasoning so that others won't be taken in by them - for instance, that thing you're doing right now.

And what is it I'm' doing right now?
I'm questioning your lack of non-partisanship. DKos has a long history of not being non-partisan, rather it's been known for being quite partisan.
And I'm questioning your thrust that only right-minded columnist need their influence "reduced" while not applying the same energy to left-minded columnists.

Sorry, but your partisan bent is quite apparent and my bringing it up is not the issue. You posted here in no uncertain terms who you are and what your gig is. Don't let me stop you, I'll not try and "reduce your influence" - welcome to freedom of speech - but don't think you won't be called on it.

171 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:21:58am

re: #170 Ericus58

And what is it I'm' doing right now?
I'm questioning your lack of non-partisanship. DKos has a long history of not being non-partisan, rather it's been known for being quite partisan.
And I'm questioning your thrust that only right-minded columnist need their influence "reduced" while not applying the same energy to left-minded columnists.

Sorry, but your partisan bent is quite apparent and my bringing it up is not the issue. You posted here in no uncertain terms who you are and what your gig is. Don't let me stop you, I'll not try and "reduce your influence" - welcome to freedom of speech - but don't think you won't be called on it.

well said

172 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:22:27am

re: #168 Barrett Brown

I'm a citizen, just like everyone else who thinks very little of certain other citizens and seeks to point out the flaws in their reasoning so that others won't be taken in by them - for instance, that thing you're doing right now.

Sometimes it's not so much what one says as the way they say it. I think you gave the impression in the sentence quoted by Ericus that you have an undiclosed personal partisan political agenda, rather than a strictly anti-idiotarian orientation.

173 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:23:37am

re: #169 Dante41

Nah. Texas Maritime Academy. I've mentioned before that I was going to school to get my Third Mate's license.

Or in other words: Not Navy, Merchie-in-Training.


Makes me think that I still have my Merchant Marine papers.

174 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:24:54am

I just filled out my census form. That's 20 seconds of my life I'll never get back. I expect the black helicopters any time now.
/

175 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:25:16am

re: #159 gegenkritik

How many other conflicts do you know where people "driven by the desire for a free state" blew themselves up? Please list only those, where the brave freedom-fighters are not Muslims.

Ever heard of Sri Lanka? Maybe I'm not making my point correctly so I'll try to rephrase. The Chechen war is not a religious ideological battle. Yes, there are islamists helping the rebels and Yes, a variety of KLA/Islamist types would love to set up a sharia based government in Chechnya but the majority of the people on the side of independence do not want a strict sharia-based form of government. Right now they'll take whatever help they can get but don't think that the underlying reason is based on their religious preference because it isn't.

176 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:28:40am

re: #173 ryannon

Makes me think that I still have my Merchant Marine papers.

Really? Deck or Engine department?

177 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:33:23am

My boss paid me for 7 hours I didn't work on my last check. I just called him to remind him to shave 7 hours off my check this week. Integrity sucks.
//

178 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:33:51am

re: #150 Dante41

True. I am just saying that other larger Islamic minorities in Russia get along just swimmingly with the Russians without doing things like this.

Also, I have to leave for that Dress Whites inspection that I mentioned earlier. Be back in about 35 minutes.

Do those others have the same history of oppression that the Chechens and Ingush have?

179 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:34:36am

re: #105 sattv4u2

DOGS 1
POLICE CAR 0


[Video]

Another dog gets labeled as a "terrorist" for acting out in righteous anger against the cat oppressors and their ignorant human lackeys.

//

180 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:36:01am

re: #179 oaktree

heh - that happened in my neck of the woods. Kinda neat to see something local spread so far :)

181 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:36:58am

(oh, yeah, happy Monday, everybody!)

182 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:37:34am

re: #178 MandyManners

Do those others have the same history of oppression that the Chechens and Ingush have?

The Tartars, the Uzbeks, the Tajiks, the Kazakhs, and the Krgyz. I am not sure.

183 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:37:51am

re: #159 gegenkritik

How many other conflicts do you know where people "driven by the desire for a free state" blew themselves up? Please list only those, where the brave freedom-fighters are not Muslims.

How radicalized have the Muslim Chechens become lately?

184 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:39:55am

re: #169 Dante41

Nah. Texas Maritime Academy. I've mentioned before that I was going to school to get my Third Mate's license.

Or in other words: Not Navy, Merchie-in-Training.

Ah hah! Got it.

185 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:42:04am

re: #182 Dante41

The Tartars, the Uzbeks, the Tajiks, the Kazakhs, and the Krgyz. I am not sure.

Were any of them forced into genocidal, internal exile by Stalin only to be allowed to return a few years later to find their homes taken over by those favored by the Soviets?

186 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:42:06am

Sadly, I have to depart now, Lizards. Stability class and more Free Surface corrections await.

187 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:42:09am

re: #183 MandyManners

How radicalized have the Muslim Chechens become lately?

I think a decent portion of their support started out radicalized. After the Slavic battles wore down in the 90's these groups migrated out. Their only choices for targets have been Chechnya, Iraq, and Afghanistan with the majority going to support Chechnya.

188 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:42:10am

Hey, oaktree - our kitty that went blind? She passed on the 9th . . .

189 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:42:31am

re: #186 Dante41

Sadly, I have to depart now, Lizards. Stability class and more Free Surface corrections await.

Vaya con Dios!

190 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:42:41am

re: #186 Dante41

Try to stay awake in class! :)

191 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:42:49am

re: #188 SasyMomaCat

Hey, oaktree - our kitty that went blind? She passed on the 9th . . .

Sorry to hear that. You can have our 3rd kitten, which we're forced to get rid of, if you'd like.

192 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:43:20am

re: #176 Dante41

Really? Deck or Engine department?

Just the basic OS package.

I was living in Chicago as a youngster, and freighters would come all the way up the St. Lawrence Seaway to dock at Navy Pier. I kind of caught a virus: every time I saw one, I wanted to sign on. No real idea of a career and even less as an officer, just the desire to sail.

At that time, the only way to obtain Seaman's Papers was through the unions: if they promised you a job, the government (Coast Guard) issued the papers. The ore carriers on the Great Lakes were all unionized, so I spent a summer hanging out at a local in South Chicago until the secretary took pity on me and typed out the prerequisite letter.

I got to know some of the guys on the ore carriers that summer, and they were a wild bunch. I seriously doubt that merchant sailors like that even exist today - which is a shame. They were like cowboys - had their own code - and often didn't give a shit, which can be pretty impressive when you're a seventeen or eighteen-year-old kid who's never seen anything like that.

It took me a while to use those papers - I was in Italy by that time, but I did and was quite happy to have them.

But that was a long time ago, and shipping out for people on my level has totally changed since then.

Best of luck to you - it's still an excellent profession and the higher you get in it, the more interesting, even today.

193 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:44:08am

re: #191 thedopefishlives

Thanks, it's a sweet offer. I think we'll stick with the two we currently have for now . . . thinking about selling the house and renting an apartment and most have a 2 cat max. Since we've got two, I'll let someone else enjoy the little furball.

194 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:44:31am

re: #175 RogueOne

Ever heard of Sri Lanka? Maybe I'm not making my point correctly so I'll try to rephrase. The Chechen war is not a religious ideological battle. Yes, there are islamists helping the rebels and Yes, a variety of KLA/Islamist types would love to set up a sharia based government in Chechnya but the majority of the people on the side of independence do not want a strict sharia-based form of government. Right now they'll take whatever help they can get but don't think that the underlying reason is based on their religious preference because it isn't.

The problem, Rogue, is that the Chechens who blow up schools and subways are all Islamists. In way cases they were radicalized by the Al Qaeda fighters who trained them. the use of suicide bombers like this in Russia says that these deaths can almost certainly be blamed on Radical Islam.

195 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:45:26am

re: #187 RogueOne

I think a decent portion of their support started out radicalized. After the Slavic battles wore down in the 90's these groups migrated out. Their only choices for targets have been Chechnya, Iraq, and Afghanistan with the majority going to support Chechnya.

The oppression started a long time ago but I'm focusing on what happened to them under Stalin.

I posted an article yesterday about the efforts by Saudi Arabia to promote Wahabism in the Balkans. Is there any of that in the Caucasus?

196 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:45:49am

re: #188 SasyMomaCat

Hey, oaktree - our kitty that went blind? She passed on the 9th . . .

(((SMC)))

197 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:46:25am

re: #188 SasyMomaCat

Sorry to hear that...

198 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:46:36am

re: #196 MandyManners

Thanks, Mandy - she'd been with us for 17 years, so we miss her a lot . . .

199 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:46:40am

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

The problem, Rogue, is that the Chechens who blow up schools and subways are all Islamists. In way cases they were radicalized by the Al Qaeda fighters who trained them. the use of suicide bombers like this in Russia says that these deaths can almost certainly be blamed on Radical Islam.

Russian chickens coming home to roost?

200 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:46:44am

re: #195 MandyManners

The oppression started a long time ago but I'm focusing on what happened to them under Stalin.

I posted an article yesterday about the efforts by Saudi Arabia to promote Wahabism in the Balkans. Is there any of that in the Caucasus?

Mostly its been AQ trying to radicalize. The Russians don't really let much Saudi money in as far as I know.

201 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:46:50am

re: #197 Rightwingconspirator

Thanks, rwc

202 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:47:01am

re: #188 SasyMomaCat

Hey, oaktree - our kitty that went blind? She passed on the 9th . . .

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully it was a gentle passing.

203 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:47:24am

re: #199 MandyManners

Russian chickens coming home to roost?

That's how that shitbird Ward Churchill would view it.

204 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:47:29am

re: #199 MandyManners

Russian chickens coming home to roost?

/but are they free-range chickens?

205 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:48:19am

re: #202 oaktree

Thanks. I believe it was - she had gotten really weak in the days before and I think she just lay down and didn't get back up. We should all be so lucky when it is our time to go.

206 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:48:47am

re: #193 SasyMomaCat

Thanks, it's a sweet offer. I think we'll stick with the two we currently have for now . . . thinking about selling the house and renting an apartment and most have a 2 cat max. Since we've got two, I'll let someone else enjoy the little furball.

Just figured I would offer. Losing a cat as long-lived as that one is a hard thing. I know some people would just flat-out refuse to get another one for a long time afterward.

207 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:49:26am

re: #200 Dark_Falcon

Mostly its been AQ trying to radicalize. The Russians don't really let much Saudi money in as far as I know.

Who took over after Basayev bit the dust?

208 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:50:21am

re: #203 Dark_Falcon

That's how that shitbird Ward Churchill would view it.

I'm not trying to exonerate the radicals but, their beef goes back a long, long way.

209 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:50:32am

re: #206 thedopefishlives

That would be the temptation here, for sure. They each have their own little personality. She was a sweet, slightly eccentric little curmudgeon.

210 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:50:35am

re: #204 Aceofwhat?

/but are they free-range chickens?

Chicken Kiev?

211 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:51:26am

re: #210 MandyManners

Chicken Kiev?

Cordon Blue.

212 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:51:44am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Waking up this AM to hear of the terrorist attacks in Moscow definitely caught my attention given that I'm a regular commuter here in the oft-targeted NYC metro area subway/PATH systems (where security was visibly increased this morning). The Moscow attacks were apparently carried out by Chechen Black Widows, and while some outlets are saying that they're a separatist group, they are also an Islamic terror group seeking a Muslim homeland in Chechnya. I'd further caution that this terrorist faction has connections with al Qaeda, including training and trading tactics, including coordinated mass casualty attacks.

Another name for the black widows are the Brides of Allah - to make the connection with Islamic terror all the more explicit.

213 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:51:45am

re: #210 MandyManners

Chicken Kiev?

Chicken a la Czar

214 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:51:50am

re: #211 Cannadian Club Akbar

Roasted, I think . . .

215 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:52:01am

I've got my resident overlords temporarily confused. Bunch of stuff came into the apartment that doesn't make sense to them yet. (Pots, bag of gravel, bag of potting soil, and some smelly plants.) Currently occupying space in the bathroom until I get a few hours to assemble things.

Since I have some nice tall south-facing windows I am going to give some window sill planters a shot. Mainly herbs (rosemary, parsley, etc.) but I also have a few pepper plants (jalapeno) and some catnip seeds germinating.

Too many recipes that call for a little bit of fresh herbs, but nowhere near the quantity that the stores sell. I just hate getting a bunch of basil and then having to throw most of it out.

216 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:52:37am

re: #205 SasyMomaCat

Thanks. I believe it was - she had gotten really weak in the days before and I think she just lay down and didn't get back up. We should all be so lucky when it is our time to go.

Michael de Ridder, the head of the emergency ward at a Berlin hospital and author of a new book on dying, discusses how modern medical advances are making death more complicated for patients with little hope of living. His book makes a plea for doctors to allow people to die with greater dignity.

SNIP

217 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:53:10am

re: #211 Cannadian Club Akbar

Cordon Blue.

Too Frenchified.

218 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:53:35am

re: #215 oaktree

My two animals - the ones that made the move, that is - are just now getting back to their usual selves. The move was hard enough, and we also had them de-clawed before the move, because we've had problems with them tearing up the furniture despite having a scratching post to scratch on. But they've adjusted well and are back to demanding that everything be about them again.

219 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:53:42am

re: #170 Ericus58

And what is it I'm' doing right now?
I'm questioning your lack of non-partisanship. DKos has a long history of not being non-partisan, rather it's been known for being quite partisan.
And I'm questioning your thrust that only right-minded columnist need their influence "reduced" while not applying the same energy to left-minded columnists.

Sorry, but your partisan bent is quite apparent and my bringing it up is not the issue. You posted here in no uncertain terms who you are and what your gig is. Don't let me stop you, I'll not try and "reduce your influence" - welcome to freedom of speech - but don't think you won't be called on it.

I would appreciate it if you would take the time to look into who I am and what I am doing a bit more before announcing to everyone who I am and what I am doing. I do indeed cross-post some of my work at Daily Kos - for instance, I did so last week in an effort to draw attention to the harassment of the admins of Wikileaks by the U.S. intelligence community, which joins those of China, Zimbabwe, and several other nations of that sort in seeking to marginalize that institution, which was founded in part by Chinese dissidents and which serves a crucial role in transparency and free information; incidentally, I do not need to be "welcomed" to "freedom of speech," though I appreciate the sentiment in a literal manner.

But I have also written for libertarian publications and routinely criticized the Democrats from a libertarian perspective. This is because I am a libertarian/anarcho-capitalist/quietist/skeptic, not a liberal.

As for my alleged "thrust," I will note that my upcoming book takes on Thomas Friedman, Richard Cohen, and Martin Peretz, none of whom can be mistaken for a conservative. I will also note that Charles Johnson has known and collaborated with me for a while now, and having more knowledge regarding my output and stances, has determined me to be exactly what I say I am - in fact, our views are pretty much in line. He also happens to have been working with me on this project from the very beginning, so perhaps you will describe him as a liberal as well. You may notice that he routinely attacks conservatives these days, as I do myself. The reason that both of us do this is that we - like the great number of conservatives who have left the movement or been kicked out as of late - consider the nation's conservatives to be in decline and particularly prone to intellectual dishonesty and what Johnson describes as "bad craziness."

So, having said all that, perhaps you will allow for the possibility that I am telling the truth, and that Johnson is not a fool whom I have hoodwinked into thinking that I am something entirely different than what I am, and that it might make sense for you to consider Johnson's opinions on me insomuch as that he has known me for a while whereas you have known me since morning.

Let me know if you have any question about the project and my political views, rather than statements.

220 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:53:43am

re: #213 Aceofwhat?

Chicken a la Czar

Chicken shit.

221 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:53:47am

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

The problem, Rogue, is that the Chechens who blow up schools and subways are all Islamists. In way cases they were radicalized by the Al Qaeda fighters who trained them. the use of suicide bombers like this in Russia says that these deaths can almost certainly be blamed on Radical Islam.

True but when deciding on a course of action we need to see the problem for what it is and what it isn't. Know what I'm saying? If we go under the mistaken assumption that this war is primarily due to radical islam we'll allow the russians to literally get away with murder.

222 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:53:47am

re: #215 oaktree

Chop up the herbs, put in an ice cube tray and fill it with water. Freeze it. Works just fine.

223 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:54:14am

re: #215 oaktree

Sounds like a great plan - and I think the overlords will like it, too ;-)

224 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:54:24am

re: #220 MandyManners

Chicken shit.

Chickenhawk?

225 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:54:34am

re: #207 MandyManners

Who took over after Basayev bit the dust?

The current one is named Doku Umarov according to the BBC. He calls his terror organization the "Caucasian Mujahadeen". He claimed responsibility for the bombing of a Moscow to Saint Petersburg express train. That one murdered 26 people.

226 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:54:48am

re: #221 RogueOne

True but when deciding on a course of action we need to see the problem for what it is and what it isn't. Know what I'm saying? If we go under the mistaken assumption that this war is primarily due to radical islam we'll allow the russians to literally get away with murder.

DINGDINGDING!!!

227 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:54:53am

re: #219 Barrett Brown

what is an 'anarcho-capitalist'?

228 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:55:08am

re: #224 thedopefishlives

Chickenhawk?

Chicken Little.

229 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:55:42am

re: #220 MandyManners

Chicken shit.

mmm...nuggets...

230 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:56:06am

re: #218 thedopefishlives

But, of course! Everything IS about them, doncha know? :)

231 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:56:23am

re: #219 Barrett Brown


This is because I am a libertarian/anarcho-capitalist/quietist/skeptic, not a liberal.

Now you've done it. You're on a list somewhere now.

232 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:57:33am

re: #230 SasyMomaCat

But, of course! Everything IS about them, doncha know? :)

Oh, I know. But for a while after the move, all they did was hide in a corner of the basement bathroom. We have a finished basement that we're planning on letting them rule freely, but we figured we'd have them start small and begin by ruling the bathroom. They've certainly attained that goal.

233 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:57:40am

re: #225 Dark_Falcon

The current one is named Doku Umarov according to the BBC. He calls his terror organization the "Caucasian Mujahadeen". He claimed responsibility for the bombing of a Moscow to Saint Petersburg express train. That one murdered 26 people.

Is he the one with the nasty beard?

234 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:58:01am

re: #229 Aceofwhat?

mmm...nuggets...

Gazan chicken.

235 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:58:10am

re: #221 RogueOne

True but when deciding on a course of action we need to see the problem for what it is and what it isn't. Know what I'm saying? If we go under the mistaken assumption that this war is primarily due to radical islam we'll allow the russians to literally get away with murder.

Yes, I understand. But I'm not prepared to criticize what the Russians do after this. We need to be supportive of strong reactions to Islamist terror, even if those reactions are monstrous. To criticize makes us look weak and soft, and that is much worse than letting the Putin get away with murder.

236 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:58:14am

re: #233 MandyManners

Is he the one with the nasty beard?

you mean there are Islamic terrorists who don't grow nasty beards??

237 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:59:07am

re: #229 Aceofwhat?

eeeewwwwww!

238 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:59:13am

Mornin' all. So I can't sleep last night and I'm channel surfing and here comes the news about homicide bombers in Moscow. J haven't read the whole thread, so I'll throw this out...How far would the US public go if it happened here?

239 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:59:29am

re: #219 Barrett Brown

what is an 'anarcho-capitalist'?

240 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:59:36am

re: #233 MandyManners

Is he the one with the nasty beard?

I do not know. I'll try to look up a photo later.

241 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:59:54am

The cluster-fuck continues.

Arab leaders failed at their summit on Sunday to reach a consensus on whether the Palestinians should resume stalled talks with Israel.

The Arab League scheduled an extraordinary summit for later this year to tackle issues it had been unable to resolve during its two days of meetings in the Libyan city of Sirte.

The Arab League had given its blessing to the Palestinians, before the Israeli decision was announced, to conduct the so-called proximity talks with Israel, so the organisation’s stance now on whether those negotiations should still go ahead is potentially decisive.

After two days of talks a committee of foreign ministers from some member states produced a resolution saying that a halt to all settlement activity was necessary for peace negotiations to go ahead.

But that decision was not adopted by the full summit and, in a sign of the lack of consensus, Syria’s foreign minister said his country would not recognise the document as representing the view of the Arab League.

SNIP

242 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:00:09am

re: #205 SasyMomaCat

One of mine got real weak while he was having hyperthyroid issues. Couldn't jump a lick and the failed attempts were more pathetic than anything. Apartment had "ramps" in three rooms so that he could work his way to couch/bed level in easy steps.

He's gotten better, but still nowhere near standard cat ability. And he prefers using the one "ramp" left in the bedroom than attempting the bed in a single bound. (One recent attempt to do that resulted in the cat doing a face-plant directly into the side of the bed. Looked like something out of a Coyote-Roadrunner cartoon.)

The one cat that I had put down went down quietly. With his advancing kideny failure he'd lost all his body fat and couldn't heat regulate. His last evening was at the vet's under a heat blanket and he actually looked fairly content despite the strange surroundings. Quick shot into his IV and it was over in seconds. Over a year ago, and I still expect to see him appear every so often, or to hear him come walking through the apartment crying for attention.

243 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:00:17am

re: #239 Aceofwhat?
Someone confused about anarchy and capitalism.

244 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:00:17am

re: #227 Aceofwhat?

what is an 'anarcho-capitalist'?

This.

245 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:00:26am

re: #236 Aceofwhat?

you mean there are Islamic terrorists who don't grow nasty beards??

IIRC, this guy's beard is singularly awful.

246 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:01:06am

re: #241 MandyManners
Just like herding cats.

247 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:01:48am

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

I do not know. I'll try to look up a photo later.

I rest my case.

248 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:02:06am

I'm going to be lurking for a little while. Gotta take an important call.

249 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:02:16am

re: #246 pingjockey

Just like herding cats.

Heh.

250 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:02:27am

re: #247 MandyManners

I rest my case.

Thank you, Mandy.

251 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:02:40am

re: #246 pingjockey

Just like herding cats.

There's a mean joke in there about litter boxes that I'll not make.

252 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:03:01am

re: #221 RogueOne

If we treat the Chechen terrorists as a politically motivated group, it will result in pressure on the Russians to negotiate and seek some manner of accommodation with the group but the Islamists will see that as a success and seek to use it to their advantage there and around the world.

If we treat the Chechen terrorists as an Islamic terror group, we'd be giving the Russians a green light to go after the terrorists - up to and including ethnic cleansing and widespread civilian casualties - as had been witnessed in the Chechen conflict to date. The Russian desire to spare civilian populations isn't nearly as strong or overwhelming to military strategy as it is here in the US and the West in general.

With that in mind, it's little wonder that the Russians want to portray this as an Islamic terror attack so as to get the green light to continue their crackdown in Chechnya because they can claim they're fighting the same fight as the US is with al Qaeda in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and around the world. And the Russians would be right - since the Chechen conflict is grounded in an Islamic struggle, but the question is how the Russians intend to fight the conflict.

253 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:03:03am

Any of our well traveled lizards been on the Moscow metro? I saw an wpisode on the history channel and they looked pretty damn posh for a subway system, marble and such. Really cool looking.

254 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:03:09am

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

Thank you, Mandy.

You're welcome! Have fun with your phone call.

255 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:03:23am

re: #223 SasyMomaCat

The older one likes fresh catnip. Would generally leave intact plants alone, but pluck a leaf and rip it a few times and he'd eat leaves whole.

Not sure how the "new" cat will react to fresh nip. She does go for the dried stuff, but this is different. ("New" is compared to the older cat, she has been here over a year now.)

256 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:03:36am

re: #244 Barrett Brown

This.

Ok, so the typical, textbook definition.

As in...relatively incompatible with real life.

Got it.

257 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:03:45am

re: #251 MandyManners
Why not? Heh.

258 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:03:51am

bbl

259 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:04:55am

re: #252 lawhawk

If we treat the Chechen terrorists as a politically motivated group, it will result in pressure on the Russians to negotiate and seek some manner of accommodation with the group but the Islamists will see that as a success and seek to use it to their advantage there and around the world.

If we treat the Chechen terrorists as an Islamic terror group, we'd be giving the Russians a green light to go after the terrorists - up to and including ethnic cleansing and widespread civilian casualties - as had been witnessed in the Chechen conflict to date. The Russian desire to spare civilian populations isn't nearly as strong or overwhelming to military strategy as it is here in the US and the West in general.

With that in mind, it's little wonder that the Russians want to portray this as an Islamic terror attack so as to get the green light to continue their crackdown in Chechnya because they can claim they're fighting the same fight as the US is with al Qaeda in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and around the world. And the Russians would be right - since the Chechen conflict is grounded in an Islamic struggle, but the question is how the Russians intend to fight the conflict.

Has it always been thus? Did Stalin exile them because they were radical Muslims or because they supported the Nazis? What about the Czars? Were the Chechens/Ingush waging jihad back then?

260 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:05:02am

re: #255 oaktree
I used to bring fresh catnip home from work. It grows wild in the orchards I worked in as a kid and our two cats would go nuts rolling in it. Good entertainment.

261 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:05:29am

re: #219 Barrett Brown

This is because I am a libertarian/anarcho-capitalist/quietist/skeptic, not a liberal..

What! No room for discordianism?

Enjoying your posts, thanks for the initial info and taking the time to respond to follow up question. Also really enjoy your writings at True/Slant and other places.

262 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:06:04am

re: #243 pingjockey

Someone confused about anarchy and capitalism.

There's a pretty extensive body of literature on the subject if you're interested in learning about what it is. I'm not sure what you consider anarchism to be; could you give me your definition?

263 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:06:11am

Cable TV's on the fritz, but now the "Blue Nowhere" is working again. So... "Howdy ho, neighbor!"

264 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:06:30am

re: #242 oaktree

Glad to hear the one with thyroid issues is improving. Sounds like it didn't take much for him to decide that the ramps are the way to go.

We set up a heating pad under a blanket for Patches on her last night with us. I think it was just her time. She tried to slip out the back door a couple of times while I was going back and forth t6o the grill and, for a cat that hated the outdoors, I took that as a sign that she was trying to slip away so she could pass quietly and privately.

I was just commenting last night on how I kept expecting to hear/see/feel certain things, only to realize that it wasn't going to happen because she is gone. It's strangely comforting to know that, a year from now, I can still expect to experience that.

Sounds like your furry friend is still living well in your heart.

265 gegenkritik  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:07:07am

re: #175 RogueOne

Ever heard of Sri Lanka? Maybe I'm not making my point correctly so I'll try to rephrase. The Chechen war is not a religious ideological battle. Yes, there are islamists helping the rebels and Yes, a variety of KLA/Islamist types would love to set up a sharia based government in Chechnya but the majority of the people on the side of independence do not want a strict sharia-based form of government. Right now they'll take whatever help they can get but don't think that the underlying reason is based on their religious preference because it isn't.

Besides the fact that the LTTE have de facto surrendered and the Black Tigers' suicide-attacks aimed mainly on military targets, not subway-stations or schools - what other conflicts do you know were people "driven by the desire for a free state" blew up?

The Taliban war is not a religious ideological battle. Yes, there are islamists helping al -Qaida and Yes, a variety of Taliban/Islamist types would love to set up a sharia based government in the world but the majority of the people on the side of independence do not want a strict sharia-based form of government. Right now they'll take whatever help they can get but don't think that the underlying reason is based on their religious preference because it isn't.

As usual: Islam is peace, there are just some regional conflicts.

266 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:07:38am

re: #259 MandyManners
The Russians have a tiger by the tail. Off the top of my head, there has to be at least 4 republics that end in -stan and have substantial Muslim populations and could go the way of Chechnya.

267 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:08:08am

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

My boss paid me for 7 hours I didn't work on my last check. I just called him to remind him to shave 7 hours off my check this week. Integrity sucks.
//

No, it doesn't.

268 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:09:00am

re: #262 Barrett Brown
Somalia comes to mind. No working central gov't, no functioning local gov't. Basically survival of who has the most guns/arms/food/etc..

269 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:09:07am

re: #246 pingjockey

Pingjockey, did you find the comment where I posted the YouTube links to the Science Fiction Sketch?

LGF comment

270 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:09:17am

re: #256 Aceofwhat?

Ok, so the typical, textbook definition.

As in...relatively incompatible with real life.

Got it.

Maybe in a macro sense, but in a micro sense, many people engage in anarcho-capitilism all the time. Ever been to a farmers or flea market? Bartered goods and services? In many ways, these types of value exchanges exhibit the attributes of anarch-capitalism.

271 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:09:43am

PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas has promoted a man who commanded a Palestinian terror unit to the rank of major-general. SNIP

Among those killed in the terror attacks he commanded were US citizens Esh-Kodesh Gilmore and the couple Binyamin and Talia Kahane in the year 2000. He has been imprisoned by Israel since 2006.

272 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:10:19am

re: #269 oaktree
I will go look. Still waking up here. Stayed up until 2am PDT watching the news.

273 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:10:38am

re: #270 Jeff In Ohio

Maybe in a macro sense, but in a micro sense, many people engage in anarcho-capitilism all the time. Ever been to a farmers or flea market? Bartered goods and services? In many ways, these types of value exchanges exhibit the attributes of anarch-capitalism.

I'll give you 2 pies and a chicken for that painting.
//

274 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:11:03am

re: #255 oaktree

You may have inspired me - I've never tried the fresh stuff with any of my kitties.

275 gegenkritik  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:11:24am

re: #271 MandyManners

Mahmud Abbas? Isn't this the moderate holocaust-denier who's supported by Obambi?

276 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:11:29am

re: #273 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'll give you 2 pies and a chicken for that painting.
//

What kind of pie and is that a rooster or a hen?

277 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:11:57am

re: #276 Jeff In Ohio

What kind of pie and is that a rooster or a hen?

Hen. And rhubarb.

278 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:12:31am

re: #266 pingjockey

The Russians have a tiger by the tail. Off the top of my head, there has to be at least 4 republics that end in -stan and have substantial Muslim populations and could go the way of Chechnya.

If al-Qaida gets involved, maybe. But, do those regions have the same history of repression and genocide as Chechnya and Ingushestia?

279 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:12:33am

re: #273 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'll give you 2 pies and a chicken for that painting.
//

HA HA! YOU COULD'VE HAD THE PAINTING FOR ONE PIE! ONE PIE! MWAHAHAHAHA!

280 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:13:11am

re: #275 gegenkritik

Mahmud Abbas? Isn't this the moderate holocaust-denier who's supported by Obambi?

That would be the one.

281 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:13:20am

re: #2 ausador

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.” -Winston Churchill.

The pitfall of your average intellectual is that, since he is clearly smarter than the average voter, he concludes that he is therefore smarter than all of them put together.

282 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:13:29am

re: #277 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hen. And rhubarb.

Dad, is that you? If you got apple, it's a deal.


Wait..what painting?

283 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:14:04am

re: #279 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

HA HA! YOU COULD'VE HAD THE PAINTING FOR ONE PIE! ONE PIE! MWAHAHAHAHA!

No pie for you.

That's got to hurt.

284 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:14:19am

re: #260 pingjockey

When I had my house in western PA I grew it in planters on my front porch. Had chicken wire over it to keep the cats from rolling on the plants themselves, but the plants and leaves grew through the wire and was freely available.

By my count I saw 7-8 different cats on my porch at one time or another (including my two). Not at the same time, but apparently my porch became a standard stop on the various outdoor feline patrol patterns. Only issue I had was one that decided to spray my screen door. I retaliated by cleaning the whole porch off using an ammonia solution. It appears the perpetrator got the point. ;)

And once those plants seeded to spots off my porch (and even into my backyard from a planter back there) I'd come across lone catnip plants that had grown about 18" high and then been eaten, rolled on, and otherwise traumatized to bits.

285 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:14:48am

re: #219 Barrett Brown

"Anarcho-capitalism is an individualist anarchist[1] political philosophy that advocates the elimination of the state and the elevation of the sovereign individual in a free market. In an anarcho-capitalist society, law enforcement, courts, and all other security services would be provided by voluntarily-funded competitors such as private defense agencies rather than through taxation, and money would be privately and competitively provided in an open market. According to anarcho-capitalists, personal and economic activities would be regulated by the natural laws of the market and through private law rather than through politics. Furthermore, victimless crimes and crimes against the state would be rendered moot."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Interesting. Do you favor the Murray Rothbard and Samuel Edward Konkin III line of thinking?

Guess I'll have to take the time to "peel the onion" to see here....
My statements are based on what you wrote previously here. The comment you made in regards to Charles and yours' history is interesting but doesn't have as yet bearing on my take on you. I'm looking at you and your words and evaluating them on their own merits.

286 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:15:11am

re: #278 MandyManners
No idea ma'am. I have no idea. I would assume they were "absorbed" or conquered by either the Czar or the communists but I don't know. I do know Russia covers 11 or 12 time zones and all kind of stuff has happened we know nothing about.

287 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:15:14am

re: #282 Jeff In Ohio

Dad, is that you? If you got apple, it's a deal.

Wait..what painting?

I have a guy who parks his Semi and trailer at my house. He brings me Washington apples all the time. Yummy!!

288 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:15:47am

The Australian Christian charity World Vision Australia, which according to its website is "Australia's largest charitable group," is reported to have financed a youth center named after the Palestinian terrorist Abu Jihad. The official Palestinian Authority daily reported that representatives of World Vision Australia met with Palestinian representatives from the Jenin Youth and Sport Administration to plan the operation of the "World Vision Stadium - Palestine / Qabatiya," which is in the "Shahid (Martyr) Abu Jihad Youth Center", and to discuss future cooperation. According to the newspaper, World Vision supplied the seed money to build the sport center named after the terrorist Abu Jihad and at the recent meeting the youth center thanked "the heads of World Vision... mentioning that the organization had provided the seed financing of the Shahid (Martyr) Abu Jihad Youth Center."

Dedicating sports facilities, tournaments and summer camps for Palestinian youth to terrorists who have killed Israelis is a policy of the Palestinian Authority and part of its program to turn terrorists into heroes and role models for children. Palestinian Media Watch has documented this Palestinian Authority's glorification of terrorists.

Abu Jihad, who the center is named after, was one of the founders of Fatah and ran its terror activities from the mid-1960's. Second to Arafat, he headed the military wing of PLO and served as deputy military commander of Fatah. Abu Jihad planned many of the major Fatah terror attacks, including the worst in Israel's history, in which 37 civilians were murdered in a bus hijacking led by Dalal Mughrabi in 1978.

SNIP

289 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:16:22am

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

My boss paid me for 7 hours I didn't work on my last check. I just called him to remind him to shave 7 hours off my check this week. Integrity sucks.
//

If he also docks you for the time it took him to fix the error, then yes it does.
//

290 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:16:29am

re: #287 Cannadian Club Akbar

I have a guy who parks his Semi and trailer at my house. He brings me Washington apples all the time. Yummy!!

I've seen you house! It has it's own exit/entrance ramp on the interstate, and large bathrooms and a picnic area. Right?

291 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:16:57am

re: #256 Aceofwhat?

Ok, so the typical, textbook definition.

As in...relatively incompatible with real life.

Got it.

I'm not trying to convert everybody to anarcho-capitalism, but rather to show that it is not simply the result of some sort of confusion regarding the nature of anarchism and capitalism. Anyway, I was just trying to debunk the "Barrett Brown is a partisan leftist" meme before it gets picked up as fact and people become disinclined to look into Project PM on account of this being asserted as fact.

292 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:17:35am

re: #286 pingjockey

No idea ma'am. I have no idea. I would assume they were "absorbed" or conquered by either the Czar or the communists but I don't know. I do know Russia covers 11 or 12 time zones and all kind of stuff has happened we know nothing about.

Not any more.

Russia’s president thought the country had too much time on its hands, so on Sunday he eliminated two of its 11 time zones. The changes mean that Chukotka - Russia’s eastern extreme, just across the Bering Strait from Alaska - is now nine hours ahead of Russia’s westernmost area, the Kaliningrad exclave sandwiched between Lithuania and Poland.

SNIP

293 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:17:38am

re: #284 oaktree
Get some cats playing in catnip, a bug zapper and some fainting goats and you have the total redneck entertainment package. BTW, I am a redneck from the sticks.

294 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:17:40am

re: #290 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've seen you house! It has it's own exit/entrance ramp on the interstate, and large bathrooms and a picnic area. Right?

3 miles from the interstate. 2 bathrooms. 5 acres.

295 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:17:54am

The teevee is saying that the Hutaree militia has been under investigation since 2008. Seditious activities and conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction are among the charges against them.

296 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:18:09am

re: #264 SasyMomaCat

The older cat with thyroid issues got a radioactive iodine treatment about 18 months ago. He's doing fine, and started putting weight back on immediately. His main issue now is high blood pressure and he gets pills for that.

The "new" cat was diagnosed with hyperthyroid a few months back. She didn't react well to the pills, but now gets a gel rubbed on her ear twice a day and we're seeing how well that works out.

I use the heating pad "trick" as well. Set up on an office chair in the one room and that is the older cat's default hang-out spot. Warm spot to snooze, and can get to window sills or the bed from there easily. Also in a spot where he can monitor traffic in the apartment, which is an important part of cat overlord duties.

297 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:18:12am

re: #287 Cannadian Club Akbar

I have a guy who parks his Semi and trailer at my house. He brings me Washington apples all the time. Yummy!!

Hmm, I've got a couple of Worthy and Northern Spyie out behind the barn. The deer have taken a tool on them, but we're hoping they flower his year, their about 6 years old. Worthy's are supposed to be great for pie. Heritage apples, grown from Crisis Cuttings.

298 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:18:27am

re: #269 oaktree
Mwahaha. I remember that sketch. Thank you!

299 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:19:23am

Anarchism in Greece at No. 71. I doubt Mr. Brown backs this insanity.

300 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:19:33am

re: #297 Jeff In Ohio

I like pie.

301 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:19:49am

re: #292 MandyManners

Hmm...sounds like he's a time lord!

302 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:20:11am

re: #300 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I like pie.

I've heard, er read.

303 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:20:11am

re: #285 Ericus58

I appreciate that, thank you.

304 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:20:22am

re: #297 Jeff In Ohio

Hmm, I've got a couple of Worthy and Northern Spyie out behind the barn. The deer have taken a tool on them, but we're hoping they flower his year, their about 6 years old. Worthy's are supposed to be great for pie. Heritage apples, grown from Crisis Cuttings.

I saw an apple tree when I was 8 years old or so. I'm in Florida. Berries, oranges, limes, lemons and grapefruit grow here.

305 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:20:57am

re: #296 oaktree

Yes, high visibility is essential for the cat overlords. And the broader the scope, the better. :) High up and wide open!

306 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:21:12am

Has anyone else heard that the terrorist's Web site is hosted in Texas?

307 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:21:47am

re: #278 MandyManners

If al-Qaida gets involved, maybe. But, do those regions have the same history of repression and genocide as Chechnya and Ingushestia?

Russia wasn't called The Prison Of Nations for nothing...

308 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:22:26am

re: #306 MandyManners

Has anyone else heard that the terrorist's Web site is hosted in Texas?

Welcome to Kavkaz.com
Kavkaz.com is your gateway to sites on the Internet for Kavkaz terrorism! Browse our resources or just try the search.

309 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:22:54am

re: #306 MandyManners
WHAT?

310 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:23:19am

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

Yes, I understand. But I'm not prepared to criticize what the Russians do after this. We need to be supportive of strong reactions to Islamist terror, even if those reactions are monstrous. To criticize makes us look weak and soft, and that is much worse than letting the Putin get away with murder.

You're not serious, are you?

311 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:23:41am

re: #307 The Sanity Inspector

Russia wasn't called The Prison Of Nations for nothing...

Were any other than the Chechens and Ingush subjected to internal exile and genocide?

312 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:24:00am

re: #291 Barrett Brown

I'm not trying to convert everybody to anarcho-capitalism, but rather to show that it is not simply the result of some sort of confusion regarding the nature of anarchism and capitalism. Anyway, I was just trying to debunk the "Barrett Brown is a partisan leftist" meme before it gets picked up as fact and people become disinclined to look into Project PM on account of this being asserted as fact.

You do have a personal partisan political agenda... and it's far from undisclosed. I read your "manifesto" at the link you provided. You cloak your purpose with a lot of technobabble, but giving the material a full and honest reading, any of the lofty goals actually belays a narcissistic mentality, a savior complex who will "reduce the negative influence of incompetent yet nonetheless well-regarded pundits..."

While you praise the internet's "wholesome effect on information flow," you really belay the fact that you are not happy with the open nature of the medium and more interested in the control you can have over the information by "address(ing) certain critical issues as determined by a collective array of the most erudite and dependable bloggers in existence."

More like a collective designed to control what you and your hive consider valid or not valid information.

My opinion.

313 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:24:04am

re: #309 pingjockey

WHAT?

I've seen it around the Web this morning.

314 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:25:12am

Alright, time to fire up the chain saw and start the Annual Spring Festival of Cutting Back the Honeysuckle. I'm going to Fuck Up those invasive species.

315 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:25:13am

re: #313 MandyManners
Okay. It hasn't been on the news, I don't think.

316 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:25:49am

re: #314 Jeff In Ohio
At least it isn't kudzu!

317 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:26:13am

re: #312 Walter L. Newton

That's kind of like saying that because Charles deletes comments and bans users at LGF, that he's 'not happy with the open nature of the medium'.

318 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:27:39am

re: #291 Barrett Brown

I'm not trying to convert everybody to anarcho-capitalism, but rather to show that it is not simply the result of some sort of confusion regarding the nature of anarchism and capitalism. Anyway, I was just trying to debunk the "Barrett Brown is a partisan leftist" meme before it gets picked up as fact and people become disinclined to look into Project PM on account of this being asserted as fact.

I don't play "meme". I read your words, noted what you said and wrote my thoughts.
Stop the victim game. No one made statements as "facts".

319 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:27:42am

re: #315 pingjockey

Okay. It hasn't been on the news, I don't think.

It's floating around the ether.

320 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:27:46am

FNC reporting those militias that were raided were planning on targeting the police.

321 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:28:38am

re: #319 MandyManners
Aha.

322 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:29:10am

re: #320 pingjockey

FNC reporting those militias that were raided were planning on targeting the police.

They need to raid the gang in Cali who have acted with violence against the police.

323 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:29:15am

re: #314 Jeff In Ohio

Remember the prayer of thanks: At least it's not kudzu.

324 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:30:18am

re: #320 pingjockey

FNC reporting those militias that were raided were planning on targeting the police.

I checked through some of their "friend" links yesterday on their Youtube channel. The rumor going around is they were manufacturing pipe bombs and they had made threats to Islamic sites around Michigan. I didn't read anything about threats against the police.

325 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:30:47am

re: #311 MandyManners

Were any other than the Chechens and Ingush subjected to internal exile and genocide?

Too lazy to research right now, but I'd suspect so.

326 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:30:48am

re: #219 Barrett Brown

I'm not in the least skeptical of your integrity in this matter. I am skeptical that such a complex system will produce results that are what you're aiming for.

However, there may be an unrevealed elegance to the system. I'll look forward to more information with interest.

327 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:31:56am

US 'may not veto UN resolution on Jerusalem'

The US is considering abstaining from a possible UN Security Council resolution against Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem, sources suggest to the BBC.

The possibility surfaced at talks in Paris last week between a senior US official and Qatar's foreign minister.

The official said the US would "seriously consider abstaining" if the issue of Israeli settlements was put to the vote, a diplomat told the BBC.

US officials in Washington have not confirmed the report.

There are no concrete plans at present to table such a resolution at the UN.

But it is likely that the US is considering how to maintain pressure, and a UN resolution would be one way, says BBC state department correspondent Kim Ghattas.

The US usually blocks Security Council resolutions criticising Israel.

328 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:34:14am

re: #324 RogueOne
It was on FNC about 10 min. ago. Also, they were supposedly gonna bomb LE funerals. Such nice people./// Assholes.

329 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:34:53am

So Barrett, how's the book coming along? Any teasers to share with us? I've gotta confess, I don't get the theme of the book. Are you saying that these columnists have not only been wrong--which is a dog bites man story if there ever was one--but that their errors have also failed our country in some larger sense? Thanks for any enlightenment.

330 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:35:09am

re: #325 The Sanity Inspector

Well, there were lots of people subjugated, displaced, and otherwise fucked over by the Russians. Most of them have their freedom already-- the Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia.

331 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:35:48am

FBI has a APB/BOLO out for someone named Joshua Stone, a leader of some sort with those militia wingnuts.

332 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:36:07am

re: #318 Ericus58

I was not referring to you; I was referring to a couple of other people.
re: #317 Obdicut

That's kind of like saying that because Charles deletes comments and bans users at LGF, that he's 'not happy with the open nature of the medium'.

Exactly. And, again, certain people seem to be studiously ignoring that the fellow who runs this particular enclave - which is a private entity regulated for the excellent reason that were it not regulated it would be filled with people posting nonsense, or more of it.

333 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:37:49am

re: #320 pingjockey

This whole incident really has set the freepers into violence-spouting conniptions. The nut-wing continues to shed any pretense of civility.

334 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:39:39am

re: #332 Barrett Brown

I was not referring to you; I was referring to a couple of other people.
re: #317 Obdicut

Exactly. And, again, certain people seem to be studiously ignoring that the fellow who runs this particular enclave - which is a private entity regulated for the excellent reason that were it not regulated it would be filled with people posting nonsense, or more of it.

And why don't you address those "certain people" so they can know who you are talking about and can respond to your accusation?

No one has to agree with you or Charles in order to respect his ownership and moderation of this blog.

335 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:39:59am

re: #332 Barrett Brown

Fair enough, Barrett.

Oh, and Blueherron... did you have something to add?

336 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:40:08am

re: #333 freetoken
I visit free republic when I get really, really bored. I have never run into any of that kind of loonie. Keeping fingers crossed. The closest I came I suppose was at the local repub. caucus a couple years ago, there were some Paulians trying to convert folks and the nicest thing I can say is they were odd.

337 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:41:45am

re: #330 Obdicut

Well, there were lots of people subjugated, displaced, and otherwise fucked over by the Russians. Most of them have their freedom already-- the Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia.

Remember the old joke? The biggest country in the world is Lithuania. Its coast is on the Baltic, its capital is in Moscow, and its population is in Siberia.

338 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:41:48am

re: #332 Barrett Brown
I just got here about 40 minutes ago. Are you saying the blogosphere needs to be regulated?

339 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:41:56am

Scanning my local paper's website I found this:

Windows broken at Albemarle County GOP headquarters

Bricks were thrown through the windows of the Albemarle County GOP headquarters overnight in what appears to be the Charlottesville area’s latest act of politically fueled vandalism.

County GOP Chairwoman Rachel Schoenewald arrived at the office in the Albemarle Square shopping center Friday morning to find two windows shattered and a third partially damaged.

“Hopefully, everyone will conduct themselves as community members and that this violence does not escalate or continue,” she said.
The county’s GOP headquarters also serves as the district office of Del. Rob Bell, R-Albemarle.

Schoenewald declined to blame any particular group, but noted that people are angry on both sides of the political spectrum.

“There are millions of people across the country,” she said. “Many of them are upset, one way or another. I hope this is the last of the violence.”

Albemarle County police are investigating the incident. Police estimated the damage would cost roughly $1,000 to fix. Police asked anyone with information about the vandalism to call Crimestoppers at 977-4000.

340 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:42:06am

re: #329 The Sanity Inspector

So Barrett, how's the book coming along? Any teasers to share with us? I've gotta confess, I don't get the theme of the book. Are you saying that these columnists have not only been wrong--which is a dog bites man story if there ever was one--but that their errors have also failed our country in some larger sense? Thanks for any enlightenment.

Serious question, btw.

341 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:42:18am

re: #310 Obdicut

You're not serious, are you?

Somewhat so. That said, what I actually favor is working with the Russians to find a strategy that allows them to eliminate the Islamists without large-scale civilian casualties.

342 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:43:19am

re: #339 NJDhockeyfan
It doesn't appear that reasonable discourse is on the horizon. Goddamn idiots.

343 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:43:54am

re: #341 Dark_Falcon

Moscow metro bombing: the backlash begins

The first reaction of Muscovites to this challenge is, of course, anger.

Against whom? Mostly against the Chechens and other inhabitants of the North Caucasus: even though no perpetrators have been caught, and clues as to who committed the crime have yet to emerge, it has already been announced that there is a North Caucasian connection. A neighbour was shouting hysterically over the phone to me: "Poison these bloody Chechens like vermin, instead of showering money on them!" Another said: "Get them all out of Moscow. Close the city, then it will be safe and clean."

344 blueherron  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:43:59am

re: #335 Ericus58

Not really. Except that you're being rude, as always. I down ding for rude.

345 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:44:13am

Good morning, folks.

Let the healing begin.*

*note: I have no idea what that's supposed to mean this morning, it just so happened that the particular synapse that fired at that moment triggered that statement. That is all.

346 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:44:21am

re: #216 MandyManners

Just got a chance to read the article - much agreed! Thank you for posting it. It also reminds me that I haven't finished filling out my living will forms. G-d forbid that I need them, but better to have and not need than to need and not have.

347 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:44:23am

re: #327 NJDhockeyfan

US 'may not veto UN resolution on Jerusalem'

The US is considering abstaining from a possible UN Security Council resolution against Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem, sources suggest to the BBC.

The possibility surfaced at talks in Paris last week between a senior US official and Qatar's foreign minister.

The official said the US would "seriously consider abstaining" if the issue of Israeli settlements was put to the vote, a diplomat told the BBC.

US officials in Washington have not confirmed the report.

There are no concrete plans at present to table such a resolution at the UN.

But it is likely that the US is considering how to maintain pressure, and a UN resolution would be one way, says BBC state department correspondent Kim Ghattas.

The US usually blocks Security Council resolutions criticising Israel.

If Obama does that, He will confirm himself as an Israel basher in my eyes.

348 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:45:08am

re: #342 pingjockey

It doesn't appear that reasonable discourse is on the horizon. Goddamn idiots.

The MSM seemed to have missed this story. I haven't seen any of them report it.

349 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:45:12am

The recent brutish crackdown on the Ladies in White protest marchers, the latest in a string of abuses in Cuba, might delay or derail congressional efforts to ease sanctions on the Castro government, even supporters of a thaw acknowledge.

``Those who want to unconditionally lift sanctions were already in an uphill climb for votes, and all this will definitely not help them,'' said Mauricio Claver-Carone, director of the pro-embargo U.S.-Cuba Democracy political action committee.

By ``all this'' he referred not just to the crackdown on peaceful marchers, but to the Feb. 23 death of jailed dissident Orlando Zapata amid a hunger strike and the detention of U.S. subcontractor Alan P. Gross since Dec. 3.

International condemnations rained down on Havana for the Zapata and Ladies in White cases. President Barack Obama blasted Cuban authorities last week, saying they ``continue to respond to the aspirations of the Cuban people with a clenched fist.''

Cuba dismissed Zapata as a ``common criminal'' and the Ladies in White, who demand the release of their jailed relatives, as part of an organized media campaign designed to highlight U.S.-financed ``mercenaries'' out to topple the communist system.

A Washington Post editorial Friday urged Congress to quickly release $20 million for democracy programs on the island -- funding that angers the Castro government. ``This is the wrong time for the United States to be holding up support for Cuba's courageous dissidents,'' it said.

SNIP

Page two has a quote from Anya Landau-French who's with the New America Foundation. She's anti-embargo. She's also a former aide to Max Baucus, he of the "redistribution" posse. Also, dig a bit on the NAF and you'll find George Soros.

350 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:45:44am

re: #329 The Sanity Inspector

So Barrett, how's the book coming along? Any teasers to share with us? I've gotta confess, I don't get the theme of the book. Are you saying that these columnists have not only been wrong--which is a dog bites man story if there ever was one--but that their errors have also failed our country in some larger sense? Thanks for any enlightenment.

The main thrust of the book is that once a pundit is made, he is rarely unmade, which is merely a cute way of saying that there is little accountability in the pundit trade. Much of the contents deal with the incredible extent to which certain well-regarded pundits such as Thomas Friedman and Charles Krauthammer have failed in their predictions, contradicted themselves, and otherwise made very poor use of the opportunities they have been given. To the extent that their output is taken to heart by voters and policymakers, yes, they have damaged the country to some extent or another, in my view.

Obviously, the theme of the book is not that these people have been wrong, but rather that they have been wrong to a large extent whereas others, including bloggers like Glenn Greenwald and Juan Cole, have been right, which is to say that this is not simply a matter of taking a few mistakes from years of output. I think that anyone who reads the book will come away with very little respect for its subjects.

351 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:45:54am

re: #341 Dark_Falcon

Acts that are monstrous should be judged as monstrous, and criticized. The Russians are not to be trusted to either confine their efforts to those who are really guilty, nor are they to be trusted to actually resolve the conflict. Chechnyan rebels attacking once in awhile is very good for Russia if what Russia wants is more civilian support for occupying Chechnya.

This is not like Israel/Palestine, where one of the actors is clearly operating on a superior ethical plane. This is Russia, and we enable them at our literal peril.

352 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:45:57am

re: #343 freetoken

Moscow metro bombing: the backlash begins

Typical from The Guardian: They ignore the need to eliminate the terrorists and focus on the backlash (not in quotes because in Russia there is likely to be a real backlash).

353 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:46:26am

re: #325 The Sanity Inspector

Too lazy to research right now, but I'd suspect so.

I've done a bit and I've not found anything approaching what the Chechens and Ingush have suffered since the 18th Century.

354 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:46:45am

re: #344 blueherron

Not really. Except that you're being rude, as always. I down ding for rude.

Why did you downding me, then? Did you think I was being mocking in asking BB that question?

355 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:47:39am

re: #327 NJDhockeyfan

The US is considering abstaining from a possible UN Security Council resolution against Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem, sources suggest to the BBC.

I'm not surprised.

356 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:48:06am

re: #348 NJDhockeyfan

The MSM seemed to have missed this story. I haven't seen any of them report it.

I bet they wouldn't have missed it if it were another party.

357 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:48:32am

re: #351 Obdicut

Oh, they might resolve the conflict alright - to the tune of a butcher's bill that is undeniably extreme. That's something that we in the US and most of the West would not tolerate, but which is common practice in the former Soviet republics and Russia.

358 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:48:56am

re: #344 blueherron

Not really. Except that you're being rude, as always. I down ding for rude.

Oh my.
Just for the sake of our discussion, could you go back the last two weeks or so and pull those rude comments of mine.... your partisan slip is showing.

359 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:49:02am

re: #341 Dark_Falcon

Somewhat so. That said, what I actually favor is working with the Russians to find a strategy that allows them to eliminate the Islamists without large-scale civilian casualties.

They've never tried that before.

360 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:49:35am

re: #351 Obdicut
The Russian military is not known for its concern about collateral damage. They also can operate mostly without the worlds press looking over their shoulder. We can condem, but I don't think it's gonna do any good.

361 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:50:58am

re: #334 Walter L. Newton

re: #338 pingjockey

I just got here about 40 minutes ago. Are you saying the blogosphere needs to be regulated?

Of course not. I am inviting certain bloggers to work together in a more efficient manner in order to increase the extent to which their best output can reach more people, as well as to prompt the mainstream media to cover topics that bloggers may be addressing and which merit an audience beyond that which it currently has.

362 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:51:11am

re: #339 NJDhockeyfan

Scanning my local paper's website I found this:

Windows broken at Albemarle County GOP headquarters

No partisan anger there. Just a random mis-hap.

363 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:51:50am

re: #362 MandyManners

No partisan anger there. Just a random mis-hap.

Righties did it to make the left look bad.

///

364 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:52:07am

re: #346 SasyMomaCat

Just got a chance to read the article - much agreed! Thank you for posting it. It also reminds me that I haven't finished filling out my living will forms. G-d forbid that I need them, but better to have and not need than to need and not have.

I got from the article that the doctor wanted to be the one who decides who gets to live.

365 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:52:16am

re: #362 MandyManners

No partisan anger there. Just a random mis-hap.


It's the Democrats' fault for playing politics with violence...

/

366 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:52:23am

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

If Obama does that, He will confirm himself as an Israel basher in my eyes.

CONFIRM?

367 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:52:24am

re: #357 lawhawk

I doubt that would actually resolve it, though, sure of pure genocide. I also doubt they actually want any resolution.

Chechnya is still fighting after, as Mandy has pointed out, more than a century of oppression and exploitation by Russia. And the motivation is not solely, purely, or even mostly Islam. Their tactics may be influenced by Islamacists, by Al-Queda, but their actual rebellion is the same as it always has been, and always will be.

368 SasyMomaCat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:52:44am

later, gators! Gotta run for a bit - hope to bbl, but if not, hope to "see" you tomorrow.

369 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:52:51am

re: #359 MandyManners

They've never tried that before.

And I'd like them to try. We could help them devise such a strategy. We should at least offer to help (though we should do so quietly).

370 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:53:30am

re: #356 Cannadian Club Akbar

I bet they wouldn't have missed it if it were another party.

Does it start with a "D"?

371 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:53:53am

re: #361 Barrett Brown
Thank you. I didn't want to try and scroll back up and find all your posts.As far as working together, aren't most of these pundits paid for their own work? Grouping together may not be in their best interests. It might make for more accurate reporting, but look at the msm and their resources and they get stuff wrong too.

372 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:54:22am

re: #350 Barrett Brown


Okay, thanks for that explanation. Hope the book does well for you.

373 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:54:23am

re: #367 Obdicut

I doubt that would actually resolve it, though, sure short of pure genocide. I also doubt they actually want any resolution.

PIMF.

374 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:54:26am

re: #363 NJDhockeyfan

Righties did it to make the left look bad.

///

ROVE, YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!

375 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:54:27am

Uma Thurman film is mother of all flops

IT could go down in British cinema history as the great Easter turkey. A film about a stressed-out mother, featuring the Hollywood superstar Uma Thurman, has been withdrawn from show after just 11 cinema goers turned up to see it in its opening weekend.

Motherhood managed to gross £9 from the lone viewer who turned up on the debut Sunday. Takings for the full weekend hit £88.

The figures mean the film outflopped even its dismal performance in America, where it took just over £40,000 when it opened last September.

Kill Bill 2, by contrast, one of Thurman’s greatest hits, made £14.2m in America on its opening weekend in 2004.

Ouch!

376 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:55:49am

re: #369 Dark_Falcon

And I'd like them to try. We could help them devise such a strategy. We should at least offer to help (though we should do so quietly).

I doubt we'll get the chance. I wouldn't be surprised if Putin's giving orders to the generals to clean out Chechneya.

377 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:55:50am

re: #369 Dark_Falcon
IIRC, the Russians are a bit touchy about excepting outside help for anything.

378 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:56:37am

re: #375 NJDhockeyfan

She had a higher body count in Kill Bill Vol 1's epic fight scene vs the Crazy 88s than went to see her movie. Ouch.

379 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:57:16am

re: #375 NJDhockeyfan

Uma Thurman film is mother of all flops

Ouch!

That may end her career entirely. Hollywood is not very forgiving of Fails like that.

380 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:57:39am

re: #350 Barrett Brown

Celebrity status often is not directly linked to quality and talent (in a specified artistic or technical field.)

For every Michael Jackson one gets dozens of Paris Hiltons and Olsen twins, for example.

Friedman, Krauthammer, etc. are known by name, probably the only thing that really matters it the age of celebrity media.

I guess in a perfect world arguments would be weighed on the substance of the matter, and not the packaging.

Have you ever seen the documentary: The Century of the Self ?

381 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:59:19am

re: #377 pingjockey

IIRC, the Russians are a bit touchy about excepting outside help for anything.

I know. That's why I said we should offer quietly (i.e. not publicly). If its done that way, they are less likely to take offense.

382 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:59:25am

re: #378 lawhawk
Kill Bill and Pulp Fiction are a couple of my guilty pleasures.

383 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:00:23am

Some folks in Switzerland have been watching Oceans 11. Went in and robbed a casino!

384 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:00:59am

re: #377 pingjockey

IIRC, the Russians are a bit touchy about excepting outside help for anything.

That's right. They let all those sailors on the submarine Kursk die, rather than let rescuers from Norway sail into their waters. The Norwegians sat there at the maritime border, pleading for days to be allowed in.

385 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:01:02am

re: #382 pingjockey

Kill Bill and Pulp Fiction are a couple of my guilty pleasures.

I thought Uma was gorgeous in "The Adventures of Baron Munchausen". She made a good Venus.

386 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:01:40am

re: #384 The Sanity Inspector
Yep.

387 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:01:44am

re: #371 pingjockey

Thank you. I didn't want to try and scroll back up and find all your posts.As far as working together, aren't most of these pundits paid for their own work? Grouping together may not be in their best interests. It might make for more accurate reporting, but look at the msm and their resources and they get stuff wrong too.

They will not be grouped together in the sense you may be thinking, but rather simply by way of software being developed for the purpose; all of this will be done over a simple widget/application. Each of them will continue to write for their current outlets; they'll simply be connected and their output will flow amongst them by way of the schematic we've designed. Thank for your question; if you haven't already, you can see more details on the makeshift project page.

388 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:02:20am

re: #182 Dante41

The Tartars, the Uzbeks, the Tajiks, the Kazakhs, and the Krgyz. I am not sure.

Azerbijanis

389 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:02:24am

re: #385 MrSilverDragon
I have never seen that movie! She'd make a good Venus though!

390 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:02:44am

re: #361 Barrett Brown

re: #338 pingjockey

Of course not. I am inviting certain bloggers to work together in a more efficient manner in order to increase the extent to which their best output can reach more people, as well as to prompt the mainstream media to cover topics that bloggers may be addressing and which merit an audience beyond that which it currently has.

That sounds awfully familiar...

391 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:02:56am

re: #387 Barrett Brown
Thanks much.

392 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:03:46am

re: #390 The Sanity Inspector
Hmmm.

393 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:04:14am

re: #383 pingjockey

Some folks in Switzerland have been watching Oceans 11. Went in and robbed a casino!

I bet none are as handsome as George Clooney.

394 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:05:10am

re: #387 Barrett Brown

If I write you a coherent email about the network you propose, will you read it?

395 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:06:14am

re: #219 Barrett Brown

I am a libertarian/anarcho-capitalist/quietist/skeptic, not a liberal.

Hahaha, well that pretty much covers it, then.
I'm looking forward to reading your book.

396 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:06:16am

IIRC, wasn't Putin in the old KGB? Between Russian public sentiment and Putin wanting to hammer the terrorists, this has the potential to become very ugly, very fast. I have no idea as to the state of the Russian army. As in how fast they can mobilize, etc..

397 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:07:51am

re: #396 pingjockey

Yes. Putin was KGB. Someone noticed once how he keeps one arm down while walking. Close to his weapon.

398 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:07:55am

re: #396 pingjockey

IIRC, wasn't Putin in the old KGB? Between Russian public sentiment and Putin wanting to hammer the terrorists, this has the potential to become very ugly, very fast. I have no idea as to the state of the Russian army. As in how fast they can mobilize, etc..



"Russia is never as strong as it looks; Russia is never as weak as it looks"
-- Talleyrand

399 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:07:59am

re: #389 pingjockey

If you like Terry Gilliam, it's well worth a watch. I highly recommend it. Great characters, fun story. I was lucky enough to see it on the big screen when it came out, and I wouldn't have known about it at all save a friend of mine who follows him religiously. Apparently it had almost no advertising at all.

400 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:08:01am

re: #393 MandyManners
Heh. You sound like my better half, except hers are Harrison Ford and now she really likes Mark Harmon on NCIS. Least I'm getting the silver around my temples she likes. :)

401 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:08:31am

re: #399 MrSilverDragon
Thank you.

402 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:09:45am

re: #398 The Sanity Inspector
Was it Churchill who called Russia "a riddle wrapped in an enigma" or something like that?

403 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:10:02am

Oh, good grief: Another mining disaster in China. Search "trapped miners" in news.google.com every month or so, and you're guaranteed to find a story from China. It's their version of "bus plunges into ravine" in India news.

404 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:10:18am

re: #402 pingjockey

Was it Churchill who called Russia "a riddle wrapped in an enigma" or something like that?

Yes.

405 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:11:31am

The companion piece to the Victoria Jockson segment: Ted Nugent on Healtchare....
Kill The Pigs! Ted Nugent

406 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:12:41am

re: #403 The Sanity Inspector

Oh, good grief: Another mining disaster in China. Search "trapped miners" in news.google.com every month or so, and you're guaranteed to find a story from China. It's their version of "bus plunges into ravine" in India news.

When it is cheaper to hire more miners than it is to build safer mines, these things happen.

407 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:12:41am

re: #396 pingjockey

IIRC, wasn't Putin in the old KGB? Between Russian public sentiment and Putin wanting to hammer the terrorists, this has the potential to become very ugly, very fast. I have no idea as to the state of the Russian army. As in how fast they can mobilize, etc..

You can take the boy out of the KGB but you can't take the KGB out of the boy.

408 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:12:42am

F-16s offered to India better than Pakistan’s: Lockheed Martin
Press Trust of India Limited 03/29/2010

"American aerospace giant Lockheed Martin on Monday assured India that the F-16s being offered to it would be “much more advanced” than the fighters provided to Pakistan.

“I can assure you, the Super Viper is much more advanced in all aspects than the F-16s being given to Pakistan,” Lockheed Martin’s vice-president-Business Development (India) Orville Prins told a group of visiting Indian journalists here.

The assurance comes in the wake of reports that India was concerned over U.S. supplying a new set of F-16s to Pakistan, a decision which could be a crucial geopolitical factor when the Indian Air Force (IAF) decides on the $10 billion Medium Multi-role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender, described as ‘mother of all deals’

“The F-16IN Super Viper will be more advanced than the F-16 Block 60 that were delivered to the UAE recently. The fighter jets being given to Pakistan by the U.S. government are F-16 Block 50/52 aircraft,” Mr. Prins said here.
..........
The F-16IN Super Viper, on the other hand, will share fifth generation technologies that are currently available on the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter and the F-22 Raptor, both Lockheed Martin products.

“The Super Viper could be described as the ultimate fourth generation fighter, tailored exclusively to meet or exceed all of India’s MMRCA requirements,” Mr. Prins said."

409 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:12:51am

re: #390 The Sanity Inspector

Yes, this is not the first time that bloggers have collaborated. But we're setting it up in a very unconventional manner that seems to have gotten the interest of a number of people by way of its potential viability to do it far better than simply starting a website and having a bunch of people write for it. The main thing is the network and the way it's set up; the secondary thing is picking folks, like Johnson and Michael Hasting, who have a track record of intellectual honesty and competence and then having the network spread out from there.

410 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:13:11am

re: #399 MrSilverDragon

If you like Terry Gilliam, it's well worth a watch. I highly recommend it. Great characters, fun story. I was lucky enough to see it on the big screen when it came out, and I wouldn't have known about it at all save a friend of mine who follows him religiously. Apparently it had almost no advertising at all.

I figured there had to be something wrong with the movie. No promotion, no major release. I thought maybe it was a dog.

411 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:14:09am

re: #408 Ericus58

Isn't India 7-0 in wars with Pakistan?

412 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:14:13am

re: #394 Obdicut

If I write you a coherent email about the network you propose, will you read it?

Of course. I respond to all queries/comments regarding Project PM. You may also leave any thoughts you have as a comment on the project page at True/Slant, if you'd like.

413 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:14:56am

Snake Massages at British Theme Park

Never mind snakes on a plane – imagine reptiles slithering across your back.

A royal python is giving visitors to a British theme park the regal treatment by slithering across tense and tired muscles. Chessington World of Adventures in Surrey offered the offbeat perk to promote its new ride , the Kobra.

A massage may help before stepping on the Kobra, which zooms through the air at 43 mph.

The ride is part of Chessington's Wild Asia park. The massages were available for people attending Wild Asia's launch and not expected to be a regular feature.

"Snake massages are said to produce a feeling of relaxation as the muscles in their bodies stimulate blood flow and massage tense joints," said a spokeswoman for Chessington .

A "snake spa" is not a new idea. In Israel, people can pay $80 for the privilege of having six non-venomous reptiles wend their way along sore back muscles. Owner Ada Barak claims customers also claim the massages are soothing and ease migraines, Time.com reported.

414 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:14:56am
415 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:14:57am

re: #408 Ericus58

That is gonna piss off the Pakistanis'.

416 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:15:04am

re: #408 Ericus58


Yet another canto in the Great India vs Pakistan Pissing Match.

417 blueherron  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:15:06am

re: #358 Ericus58


No. I really don't want to go over your posts for the past two weeks. But you are often rude. And I really don't downding that often.

SANITY INSPECTOR--I dont downding you (or anyone) very often--you're a conservative, (oops, my "partisan slip is showing"); but your remarks are well thought out, usually well-meaning, and often humorous. So I guess I did think you were being rude to Barrett Brown in whatever comment I downdinged. I will give you updings next few times I see you.

The person I downding most is probably walter, because he's so condescending and self-involved.

418 abbyadams  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:15:08am

re: #295 The Sanity Inspector

Nine suspects tied to a Christian militia in the Midwest are charged with conspiring to kill police officers, then attack a funeral in the hopes of killing more law enforcement personnel, federal prosecutors said Monday.

(...)

"It is believed by the Hutaree that this engagement would then serve as a catalyst for a more wide-sread uprising against the government," the indictment charges.
It includes charges of seditious conspiracy, possessing a firearm during a crime of violence, teaching the use of explosives, and attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction — homemade bombs.
The indictment charges members of the group conspired "to levy war against the United States, (and) to oppose by force the authority of the government of the United States."


link

Meet The Horns, boys...

419 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:15:23am
420 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:15:32am

re: #411 Cannadian Club Akbar

Isn't India 7-0 in wars with Pakistan?

They do hold the upper hand in regards to Pakistan.
A bit of a stalemate with China....

421 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:15:32am

re: #404 The Sanity Inspector

There was a similar story concerning the fire in the Moscow TV tower shortly after the Kursk disaster: seems that the fire broke out in an area used by FSBB surveillance gear and the fire department had no authority to enter the area to extinguish the fire until it had received top-level clearance, by which time it had spread and destroyed nearly everything.

Official reports hinted that the fire was the result of a collision with a foreign spy TV tower...

422 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:15:43am

re: #96 MandyManners

Every now and then The Kid tries to get me to let him have a Red Bull. Considering his ADHD, no way. No how.

Ever seen Over The Hedge?

423 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:16:39am

re: #411 Cannadian Club Akbar
IIRC, there is one tie. The disputed Kashmir region. The nuts were up about 15,000 feet in the Himalays shooting artillery at each other.

424 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:17:02am

re: #412 Barrett Brown

Thanks much, I will.

425 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:17:12am

re: #418 abbyadams

link

Meet The Horns, boys...

My God, they are actually bringing Sedition charges. That is some serious shit.

426 abbyadams  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:18:05am

re: #425 Dante41

I am so disgusted I can't even type straight. Killing cops to get at the federal government? W.T.F.

427 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:18:20am

re: #408 Ericus58

Big Swinging Dick Syndrome.

428 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:18:34am

re: #136 MandyManners

How can you deny the role of Islam?!

I've never been sure to what extent radical Islam is a root cause in Chechnya, and to what extent it's just hitching a ride.

429 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:18:38am

re: #396 pingjockey

IIRC, wasn't Putin in the old KGB? Between Russian public sentiment and Putin wanting to hammer the terrorists, this has the potential to become very ugly, very fast. I have no idea as to the state of the Russian army. As in how fast they can mobilize, etc..

Yes, he was also a chief official in the FSB, where he assisted in bringing down a major prosecutor who was going after Yeltsin's daughter and associates for corruption. Fellow was videotaped with a prostitute, Kremlin-affiliated TV broadcast it, next month Putin and this other fellow held press conference announcing it'd been analyzed and the guy was definitely the prosecutor. Also pulled some much more significant shenanigans to get himself where he very quickly came to be.

430 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:18:52am

re: #426 abbyadams

I am so disgusted I can't even type straight. Killing cops to get at the federal government? W.T.F.

For some reason, the link didn't work for me.:(

431 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:19:14am

re: #425 Dante41
I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, so when was the last time anyone was actually charged with sedition? IIRC, that was signed into law by Woodrow Wilson during WWI.

432 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:19:48am

re: #413 NJDhockeyfan

Snake Massages at British Theme Park

"I HAVE HAS IT WITH THESE MOTHERFUCKIN' SNAKE IN MY MOTHERFUCKIN' THEME PARK!!

/Samuel L. Jackson

433 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:19:59am

re: #408 Ericus58

It'll all depend on the quality of the pilots they can put into those birds, though. Had we gone up against Soviet pilots in those MiGs rather than Iraqi ones in Desert Storm, it would have gone much harder for us.

434 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:20:11am

re: #409 Barrett Brown

Michael Hasting, the Newsweek journalist?

435 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:20:16am

re: #429 Barrett Brown
Ruthless comes to mind.

436 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:20:30am

re: #418 abbyadams

link

Meet The Horns, boys...

Link did not work for me.

437 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:21:00am

re: #430 Cannadian Club Akbar

For some reason, the link didn't work for me.:(

I found one. Hopefully this works:

[Link: www.publicbroadcasting.net...]

438 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:21:14am

re: #436 Dark_Falcon

[Link: www.google.com...]

439 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:21:23am

re: #417 blueherron

No. I really don't want to go over your posts for the past two weeks. But you are often rude. And I really don't downding that often.

This will be the last on this from me to you.
That is just a flat-out wrong statement.
And of course you don't want to pull any posts up, because there are not. And taking my posts in their entirety shows you are not factual in regards to me.

440 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:21:29am

re: #422 SanFranciscoZionist

Ever seen Over The Hedge?

My sister took him to see that one.

441 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:21:57am

re: #437 Lidane

Thanks.

442 abbyadams  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:22:11am

re: #430 Cannadian Club Akbar

Retry

If it still doesn't work, it's listed on Yahoo's front page.

443 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:22:11am

Militia Members Planned To Kill Cop And Bomb Funeral, Prosecutors Say

Once other officers gathered for a slain officer's funeral, the group planned to detonate homemade bombs at the funeral, killing more, according to newly unsealed court papers.

According to the indictment, the idea of attacking a police funeral was one of numerous scenarios discussed as ways to go after law enforcement officers. Other scenarios included a fake 911 call to lure an officer to his or her death, or an attack on the family of a police officer.

After such attacks, the group allegedly planned to retreat to "rally points" protected by trip-wired improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, for what they expected would become a violent standoff with law enforcement personnel.

"It is believed by the Hutaree that this engagement would then serve as a catalyst for a more wide-sread uprising against the government," the indictment charges.

444 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:22:14am

re: #432 Dark_Falcon
Heh, No one says MFer the way S.L. Jackson does. Kinda like the way Red says "dumbass" on that 70s show,

445 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:22:24am

re: #417 blueherron

No. I really don't want to go over your posts for the past two weeks. But you are often rude. And I really don't downding that often.

SANITY INSPECTOR--I dont downding you (or anyone) very often--you're a conservative, (oops, my "partisan slip is showing"); but your remarks are well thought out, usually well-meaning, and often humorous. So I guess I did think you were being rude to Barrett Brown in whatever comment I downdinged. I will give you updings next few times I see you.

The person I downding most is probably walter, because he's so condescending and self-involved.

I'm glad that I can help brighten up your life. Ding away. You really have to be kidding, this really makes your day, doesn't it? Unbelievable... LOL.

446 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:22:50am

re: #428 SanFranciscoZionist

I've never been sure to what extent radical Islam is a root cause in Chechnya, and to what extent it's just hitching a ride.

It's definitely the latter, from what I can determine with regards to the more prominent of the now-deceased "warlords," who didn't seem to get religion until it became strategically convenient. This isn't to say that there weren't plenty of Islamist fighters to draw upon locally, of course. That number went up after Grozny was brutally bombed-out for no good reason.

447 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:23:02am

re: #426 abbyadams

I am so disgusted I can't even type straight. Killing cops to get at the federal government? W.T.F.

They honestly don't see the difference. One "Zionist Fascist Pig" is the same as another to them.

I have to say, I am really glad they caught them before they could pull of this plan. It might have killed a lot of people. Setting off a pipe bomb at a police funeral could have easily been able to sever the leadership of a city and its police force, while also killing hundreds of innocent family members.

448 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:23:09am

re: #445 Walter L. Newton

I'm glad that I can help brighten up your life. Ding away. You really have to be kidding, this really makes your day, doesn't it? Unbelievable... LOL.

Big meanie!!!
///

449 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:24:26am

re: #428 SanFranciscoZionist

I've never been sure to what extent radical Islam is a root cause in Chechnya, and to what extent it's just hitching a ride.

I don't see it as a root cause but, it certainly is a force now.

450 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:24:31am

re: #434 MandyManners

Michael Hasting, the Newsweek journalist?

Yeah (actually Hastings, my typo), although he left Newsweek and then did an expose on their misplaced journalistic priorities. He was their Baghdad correspondent for a while and then covered the 2008 elections, now writes mainly for GQ as well as True/Slant along with Charles and myself.

451 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:24:35am

re: #420 Ericus58

They do hold the upper hand in regards to Pakistan.
A bit of a stalemate with China...

Pingjockey and Dante41 -
The major bulk of Pakistan's military has always been on the border with India - even with the last years' fighting with AQ and Taliban in the northern states.

It is ini the U.S.'s best interest to have a stronger India imo in regards to Pakistan... as well as China.

452 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:24:47am

re: #182 Dante41

The Tartars, the Uzbeks, the Tajiks, the Kazakhs, and the Krgyz. I am not sure.

Apparently, when we went into Afghanistan, the Uzbeks were thrilled. Only pro-US spot on the map in that region.

(One man interviewed explained that if the Taliban made it into Uzbekistan 'they'll take away the vodka'.)

453 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:26:00am

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, and against us, the world marched in the streets.

Against Russia, everyone went "Mmmm."

The silver lining is: the US is known as a country that is worth protesting on the chance we will listen and allow dissent to appeal to our better natures.

454 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:26:04am

re: #431 pingjockey

I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, so when was the last time anyone was actually charged with sedition? IIRC, that was signed into law by Woodrow Wilson during WWI.

It's been wielded from time to time, just hasn't gotten into the news so much.

455 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:26:22am

re: #408 Ericus58

F-16s offered to India better than Pakistan’s: Lockheed Martin
Press Trust of India Limited 03/29/2010

"American aerospace giant Lockheed Martin on Monday assured India that the F-16s being offered to it would be “much more advanced” than the fighters provided to Pakistan.

“I can assure you, the Super Viper is much more advanced in all aspects than the F-16s being given to Pakistan,” Lockheed Martin’s vice-president-Business Development (India) Orville Prins told a group of visiting Indian journalists here.

The assurance comes in the wake of reports that India was concerned over U.S. supplying a new set of F-16s to Pakistan, a decision which could be a crucial geopolitical factor when the Indian Air Force (IAF) decides on the $10 billion Medium Multi-role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender, described as ‘mother of all deals’

“The F-16IN Super Viper will be more advanced than the F-16 Block 60 that were delivered to the UAE recently. The fighter jets being given to Pakistan by the U.S. government are F-16 Block 50/52 aircraft,” Mr. Prins said here.
...
The F-16IN Super Viper, on the other hand, will share fifth generation technologies that are currently available on the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter and the F-22 Raptor, both Lockheed Martin products.

“The Super Viper could be described as the ultimate fourth generation fighter, tailored exclusively to meet or exceed all of India’s MMRCA requirements,” Mr. Prins said."

Is it just me, or does anyone else get the creeps when these stories come out about how the US supplies all sides with weaponry. Whatever happened to the good old moral clarity of the MIG vs F-16 days.

456 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:26:31am

re: #451 Ericus58
Yah, however. With the unstability in Pakistan and control of the nuclear weapons possibly under threat, I wish the sale could've been a little quieter.

458 keloyd  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:26:37am

I may be behind the ball on this one, but here's some breaking (to me) news-

Emanuel Cleaver was not spat upon. In his own words, it was a "say it don't spray it" situation. I may never vote for my fellow Texan, but he's never been one to exaggerate or hustle like Jesse Jackson or Cynthia McKinney. Cleaver is one of the grownups. If he said he was spat upon, I'd believe it, but he says no.

My WSJ is separating the wheat from the chaff re recent death threats and other hysterics here.

Recent media behavior re the wingnuts fits the same pattern as Geraldo Rivera's hysterics when he indulged fantasies about gangs raping babies in the Superdome in New Orleans during the hurricane. If the reporter is shouting and near tears, his words are likely not the truth, imho

459 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:27:00am

re: #447 Dante41

They honestly don't see the difference. One "Zionist Fascist Pig" is the same as another to them.

I have to say, I am really glad they caught them before they could pull of this plan. It might have killed a lot of people. Setting off a pipe bomb at a police funeral could have easily been able to sever the leadership of a city and its police force, while also killing hundreds of innocent family members.

And the run-on effects from such an event? Nasty. Given the cross support police departments give each other I would expect that there would be very broad reaction among police forces throughout the country. Which I expect would be their goal, counting on a crackdown of sorts that would generate further events and things would escalate from there.

460 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:27:10am

re: #454 The Sanity Inspector
Thank you.

461 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:27:35am

re: #431 pingjockey

I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, so when was the last time anyone was actually charged with sedition? IIRC, that was signed into law by Woodrow Wilson during WWI.

It was repealed in 1920.

462 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:27:45am

re: #221 RogueOne

True but when deciding on a course of action we need to see the problem for what it is and what it isn't. Know what I'm saying? If we go under the mistaken assumption that this war is primarily due to radical islam we'll allow the russians to literally get away with murder.

We already have...sigh. And left an opening for radical Islam.

463 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:27:48am

re: #291 Barrett Brown

I'm not trying to convert everybody to anarcho-capitalism, but rather to show that it is not simply the result of some sort of confusion regarding the nature of anarchism and capitalism. Anyway, I was just trying to debunk the "Barrett Brown is a partisan leftist" meme before it gets picked up as fact and people become disinclined to look into Project PM on account of this being asserted as fact.

I understand. I believe that you have a coherent framework. I just haven't heard any variations on the theme that sound eminently practical, but hey, there's always room for surprise...

I should note though, that my first point of skepticism is why an anarcho-capitalist would hold much concern for the free market of ideas, i.e., Thomas Friedman's take on general affairs. Seems a little...ahhh..."regulatory" to me.

Just sayin'...

464 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:28:37am

re: #461 MandyManners
If it was repealed, how can they be charged? Help!

465 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:28:55am

re: #457 gegenkritik

It is still the law of the land that the King/Queen of England cannot be a Catholic. And the King/Queen is also the head of the Church of England. So much for a poor, discriminated religion

466 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:29:05am

re: #428 SanFranciscoZionist

I've never been sure to what extent radical Islam is a root cause in Chechnya, and to what extent it's just hitching a ride.

It's hitching a ride, this is an old blood feud that has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam:

There remained stiff opposition to Stalinist policies like collectivization. Toward the end of World War II, Stalin decided that the Chechens were not good Soviet citizens and had to be dealt with harshly. Stalin accused the whole nation of treason and aiding the Germans, who occupied Chechnya during part of the war. Stalin decided in 1944 to deport the entire population of Chechnya to Central Asia. His stated goal was to "liquidate" the Chechen nation, which officially ceased to exist. Russian and Dagestani settlers were moved into the houses of the deported.

467 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:29:34am

re: #449 MandyManners

I don't see it as a root cause but, it certainly is a force now.

True. It should be familiar to the Russians, because what Al Qaeda did is what they used to do back in the day: In return for the rebels professing Al Qaeda's ideology and allying themselves, Al Qaeda supplied them with equipment and training. The USSR used to do the same thing.

468 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:29:48am

re: #457 gegenkritik

Senior bishops call for end to persecution of Christians in Britain

World calls for end of male rape and other sexual abuses by Christian leaders.

469 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:30:10am

re: #446 Barrett Brown

It's definitely the latter, from what I can determine with regards to the more prominent of the now-deceased "warlords," who didn't seem to get religion until it became strategically convenient. This isn't to say that there weren't plenty of Islamist fighters to draw upon locally, of course. That number went up after Grozny was brutally bombed-out for no good reason.

Basayev seemed to be a devout Muslim.

470 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:30:27am

re: #443 Killgore Trout

Fucking nutjobbs. What the hell were they hoping to accomplish other than killing a lot of innocent people? I guess my answer lies in the sedition charges.

Wow. Just...wow. I can't even begin to wrap my head around that.

471 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:30:30am

re: #417 blueherron

No. I really don't want to go over your posts for the past two weeks. But you are often rude. And I really don't downding that often.

SANITY INSPECTOR--I dont downding you (or anyone) very often--you're a conservative, (oops, my "partisan slip is showing"); but your remarks are well thought out, usually well-meaning, and often humorous. So I guess I did think you were being rude to Barrett Brown in whatever comment I downdinged. I will give you updings next few times I see you.

The person I downding most is probably walter, because he's so condescending and self-involved.

Plenty of us get condescending and self-involved at times. A more honest reflection might include your admission that you selectively downding condescending remarks...

472 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:30:45am

re: #459 oaktree

And the run-on effects from such an event? Nasty. Given the cross support police departments give each other I would expect that there would be very broad reaction among police forces throughout the country. Which I expect would be their goal, counting on a crackdown of sorts that would generate further events and things would escalate from there.

Exactly. Hence the sedition charges. These fuckers were trying to set off a revolution.

473 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:30:53am

re: #455 Spare O'Lake
Unfortunetly, since the end of the Cold War, we have been selling arms to both sides. IIRC we sold/gave the Pali police(hah) a bunch of M-16s which of course promptly made their way to the terrorists.

474 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:30:58am

re: #450 Barrett Brown

Yeah (actually Hastings, my typo), although he left Newsweek and then did an expose on their misplaced journalistic priorities. He was their Baghdad correspondent for a while and then covered the 2008 elections, now writes mainly for GQ as well as True/Slant along with Charles and myself.

Thanks!

475 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:30:59am

re: #470 Lidane

A lot of these groups really feel that if they just start something, if they just light the spark, that a revolution will follow.

476 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:31:03am

re: #463 Aceofwhat?

I understand. I believe that you have a coherent framework. I just haven't heard any variations on the theme that sound eminently practical, but hey, there's always room for surprise...

I should note though, that my first point of skepticism is why an anarcho-capitalist would hold much concern for the free market of ideas, i.e., Thomas Friedman's take on general affairs. Seems a little...ahhh..."regulatory" to me.

Just sayin'...

The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.
--Thomas Sowell

477 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:31:23am

Glenn Beck's new novel is modeled on the Oathkeepers.....

Glenn Beck’s New Novel: ‘The Overton Window’

Will Bunch has the name of Glenn Beck’s upcoming adult novel (he’s already written a Christmas story for children) to be released in June. The news comes in Bunch’s extremely entertaining report on a Beck speech and rally in Orlando. The book, explains Bunch, will be “‘a story of America in a time much like today where the people are confused,’ with a government in crisis and the rise of a citizens’ group called the Founders Keepers, which ‘leads to a battle and a civil war, and life is upside-down planetwide.’”

On first blush it sounds like “Atlas Shrugged” with a bit more violence, and with 9-12 Tea Partiers taking the place of underground intellectuals. And it will also ruin for all time a term political scientists have enjoyed and Beck recently discovered. (In that clip, an early title for the book is “We Are Americans: The Overton Window.”)

478 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:31:53am

re: #457 gegenkritik

Senior bishops call for end to persecution of Christians in Britain

A hijab is okay but a cross is not?

479 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:32:24am

re: #477 Killgore Trout

What the fuck does the Overton Window have to do with anything?

Beck is like a toddler smearing jam all over intellectual and political thought.

480 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:32:24am

re: #475 Obdicut

A lot of these groups really feel that if they just start something, if they just light the spark, that a revolution will follow.

Yeah. Tim McVeigh thought that too.

Like I said-- fucking nutjobs. It just makes no damned sense to me at all.

481 Right Brain  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:32:33am

As usual we cannot find out the religion of the Moscow suicide bombers from reading the newspapers, one can assume that if they were Jewish or Christian or Hindu or Buddhist we would have learned that by now. Three dozen dead on a European public transportation system and it is simply more important for the MSM to maintain their fantasy about the world rather than report the facts.

Maybe it was PETA?

482 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:33:04am

re: #464 pingjockey

If it was repealed, how can they be charged? Help!

I don't know. I'm still looking.

483 keloyd  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:33:23am

re: #457 gegenkritik

Senior bishops call for end to persecution of Christians in Britain

"Disrespect" and "discrimination" are the right word for what is happening. The actual quotes from a nurse who was mistreated and the Church use those words, correctly. "Persecution" is the Telegraph being the Telegraph.

It's like using the word "rape" to describe my cable bill going up $10. We all do it casually, but to write it down, when you're at work, in a job where you're paid to use words properly - that's some shenanigans.

484 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:33:27am

re: #464 pingjockey

If it was repealed, how can they be charged? Help!

It's still a crime in the UCMJ.

485 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:33:34am

re: #470 Lidane

Fucking nutjobbs. What the hell were they hoping to accomplish other than killing a lot of innocent people? I guess my answer lies in the sedition charges.

Wow. Just...wow. I can't even begin to wrap my head around that.



For there can be no reasons
Because there are no reasons
What reason do you need to die?

486 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:33:38am

re: #481 Right Brain

As usual we cannot find out the religion of the Moscow suicide bombers from reading the newspapers, one can assume that if they were Jewish or Christian or Hindu or Buddhist we would have learned that by now. Three dozen dead on a European public transportation system and it is simply more important for the MSM to maintain their fantasy about the world rather than report the facts.

Maybe it was PETA?

Whose side is the MSM on anyways?

;)

487 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:33:39am

re: #408 Ericus58

F-16s offered to India better than Pakistan’s: Lockheed Martin
Press Trust of India Limited 03/29/2010

"American aerospace giant Lockheed Martin on Monday assured India that the F-16s being offered to it would be “much more advanced” than the fighters provided to Pakistan.

...the spokesperson added: while the Pakistani version uses no pork products the Indian version is entirely vegitarian. /

488 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:34:00am

re: #467 Dark_Falcon

True. It should be familiar to the Russians, because what Al Qaeda did is what they used to do back in the day: In return for the rebels professing Al Qaeda's ideology and allying themselves, Al Qaeda supplied them with equipment and training. The USSR used to do the same thing.

Enemies of liberty.

489 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:34:08am

re: #481 Right Brain

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

490 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:34:14am

re: #377 pingjockey

IIRC, the Russians are a bit touchy about excepting outside help for anything.

If outsiders get in, they might try to bring, you know, the Geneva Conventions or some crap like that with them.

491 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:34:24am

re: #468 Walter L. Newton

World calls for end of male rape and other sexual abuses by Christian leaders.

it hurts 'cause it's true...

492 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:34:42am

re: #481 Right Brain

I used to stop off regularly at the Taco Bell franchise in the Gorky Park station that was hit, perhaps it was a competing fast-food chain...

Kentucky Fried Chechen?

/

493 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:35:23am

re: #396 pingjockey

IIRC, wasn't Putin in the old KGB? Between Russian public sentiment and Putin wanting to hammer the terrorists, this has the potential to become very ugly, very fast. I have no idea as to the state of the Russian army. As in how fast they can mobilize, etc..

No need to mobilize, they never left...

494 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:35:27am

re: #484 MandyManners
The UCMJ only covers folks in the military. Maybe it re-repealed? Reinstated during WWII?

495 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:35:55am

re: #481 Right Brain

As usual we cannot find out the religion of the Moscow suicide bombers from reading the newspapers, one can assume that if they were Jewish or Christian or Hindu or Buddhist we would have learned that by now. Three dozen dead on a European public transportation system and it is simply more important for the MSM to maintain their fantasy about the world rather than report the facts.

Maybe it was PETA?

The Internet has Black Widows of Chechnya behind it.

496 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:35:56am

re: #478 MandyManners

A hijab is okay but a cross is not?

Reverence for "The Other", contempt for their own. That's the manure which fertilizes the growth of EDL and BNP.

497 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:35:59am

Controversial Muslim scholar to speak at Harvard

CAMBRIDGE — A Muslim scholar previously denied a visa and barred from speaking engagements in the United States is scheduled to speak at Harvard Law School.

Adam Habib of the University of Johannesburg in South Africa is slated to speak Wednesday about ideological exclusion in an event co-sponsored by the ACLU of Massachusetts.

In January, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton signed orders enabling the re-entry of Habib and Tariq Ramadan of Oxford University in England.

498 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:36:02am

re: #492 ralphieboy

I used to stop off regularly at the Taco Bell franchise in the Gorky Park station that was hit, perhaps it was a competing fast-food chain...

Kentucky Fried Chechen?

/

Considering that over 30 people were killed, for some reason this is not funny... is it?

499 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:36:04am

re: #480 Lidane

Yeah. Tim McVeigh thought that too.

Like I said-- fucking nutjobs. It just makes no damned sense to me at all.

To them, you are just another fascist bootlicker who needs to be purged in the name of the Constitution and the good of the Nation.

It makes no sense to anyone who is sane.

500 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:36:18am

re: #493 SanFranciscoZionist
Aha. What a frakkin' mess.

501 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:36:38am

re: #488 MandyManners

Enemies of liberty.

Quite Concur. Putin is not our friend, but I hope the he hammers the Islamists who organized this mass murder to dust.

502 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:36:46am

re: #497 NJDhockeyfan

Controversial Muslim scholar to speak at Harvard

Well, I'm shocked.
//

503 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:36:53am

re: #479 Obdicut

Beck is like a toddler smearing jam all over intellectual and political rational thought.

FTFY. ;)

504 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:37:16am

re: #440 MandyManners

My sister took him to see that one.

Thinking of an ADD child on Red Bull reminded me of the squirrel who drinks the soda.

505 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:37:24am

re: #494 pingjockey

The UCMJ only covers folks in the military. Maybe it re-repealed? Reinstated during WWII?

That's my point. I can find nothing about Sedition being a crime for civilians nowadays.

Maybe it was reinstated in the health care "reform" bill.

506 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:37:27am

re: #498 Walter L. Newton

Considering that over 30 people were killed, for some reason this is not funny... is it?

No, it isn't.

507 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:37:37am

re: #463 Aceofwhat?

I understand. I believe that you have a coherent framework. I just haven't heard any variations on the theme that sound eminently practical, but hey, there's always room for surprise...

I should note though, that my first point of skepticism is why an anarcho-capitalist would hold much concern for the free market of ideas, i.e., Thomas Friedman's take on general affairs. Seems a little...ahhh..."regulatory" to me.

Just sayin'...

You seem to be confusing my criticism with a call for censorship and I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I am not trying to get the government to silence Friedman; I am trying to get a lot of other commentators, journalists and bloggers who know of Friedman's incompetence to coordinate in such a way as to make it much better known. That is not regulatory in any way; we are participating in the free market of ideas just as Friedman does when he criticizes people for incompetence, real or imagined.

508 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:37:56am

re: #496 The Sanity Inspector

Reverence for "The Other", contempt for their own. That's the manure which fertilizes the growth of EDL and BNP.

They better bring the pendulum back to the center.

509 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:38:14am

re: #505 MandyManners

That's my point. I can find nothing about Sedition being a crime for civilians nowadays.

Maybe it was reinstated in the health care "reform" bill.

I don't know where it is, but I think it is safe to assume that plotting a revolution is against the law.

510 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:38:20am

re: #497 NJDhockeyfan

Controversial Muslim scholar to speak at Harvard

How do you like us now, world?

511 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:38:22am

re: #505 MandyManners
Thanks for digging!

512 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:38:53am

re: #497 NJDhockeyfan

Controversial Muslim scholar to speak at Harvard

Sure hope those students don't shout him down...

513 keloyd  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:39:00am

re: #465 ralphieboy

It is still the law of the land that the King/Queen of England cannot be a Catholic. And the King/Queen is also the head of the Church of England. So much for a poor, discriminated religion

So if old women are fired from nursing jobs for wearing a small cross, when small jewelry is otherwise allowed, you're ok with that? I object to casual use of words like 'persecution', but the case for discrimination is pretty good.

Those 'no Catholic' laws may technically be on the books, but they're not relevant or binding in any way. If Prince William wanted to marry a practicing Catholic, Parliament would pass a new law in like a minute.

514 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:39:10am

re: #505 MandyManners

That's my point. I can find nothing about Sedition being a crime for civilians nowadays.

Maybe it was reinstated in the health care "reform" bill.

Look up "Smith Act."

515 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:39:12am

re: #492 ralphieboy

I used to stop off regularly at the Taco Bell franchise in the Gorky Park station that was hit, perhaps it was a competing fast-food chain...

Kentucky Fried Chechen?

/

Even with the "sarc" tag, that is not funny. You wanna' take a guess how many Chechen kids are gonna' be killed in the counter-attack?

516 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:39:20am

re: #497 NJDhockeyfan
Ain't free speech great?!

517 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:39:22am

re: #457 gegenkritik

Senior bishops call for end to persecution of Christians in Britain

The lady who's in trouble about her cross at work has been treated badly. Everything else they mention sounds like whining.

518 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:39:28am

I'm assuming that the pro-torture contingent here is fully in support of waterboarding the captured Huatree terrorists? Perhaps just stripping them naked and throwing them in a freezing room for 3 days while being deprived of sleep, then tying their arms behind their backs and slamming them into the wall?

After all, how can we know that these terrorists don't have any more plots underway. American lives are at stake here, it would be morally wrong NOT to torture them.

519 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:39:59am

re: #505 MandyManners

That's my point. I can find nothing about Sedition being a crime for civilians nowadays.

Maybe it was reinstated in the health care "reform" bill.

Search for "seditious activity" rather than sedition.

520 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:40:03am

re: #501 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Putin is not our friend, but I hope the he hammers the Islamists who organized this mass murder to dust.

He will use a big hammer and will not give a shit how many civilians get killed.

521 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:40:17am

re: #505 MandyManners

That's my point. I can find nothing about Sedition being a crime for civilians nowadays.

Maybe it was reinstated in the health care "reform" bill.

Actually, it's in the U.S. Title Code. The charge isn't sedition, but rather seditious conspiracy:

[Link: www.law.cornell.edu...]

522 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:40:20am

re: #492 ralphieboy
Double plus unfunny.

523 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:40:31am

re: #504 SanFranciscoZionist

Thinking of an ADD child on Red Bull reminded me of the squirrel who drinks the soda.

Like Tigger on meth?

524 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:41:00am

re: #509 Dante41

I don't know where it is, but I think it is safe to assume that plotting a revolution is against the law.

Source?

525 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:41:00am

re: #505 MandyManners

That's my point. I can find nothing about Sedition being a crime for civilians nowadays.

Maybe it was reinstated in the health care "reform" bill.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2384

§ 2384. Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

[Link: www.law.cornell.edu...]

526 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:41:04am

re: #508 MandyManners

They better bring the pendulum back to the center.

New book I'm reading that you might like: The New Vichy Syndrome: Why European Intellectuals Surrender to Barbarism by Theodore Dalrymple. I don't know how to do the Amazon link that gives Charles credit.

527 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:41:06am

re: #518 drcordell

What in the world......

528 gegenkritik  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:41:11am

re: #478 MandyManners

A hijab is okay but a cross is not?

A cross is a racist symbol. It offends Islam.

529 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:41:20am

re: #524 MandyManners

Source?

see #525

530 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:41:42am

re: #518 drcordell

Oh, here we go. Lets not start this, okay?

For starters, they are not terrorists. These fuckers were actively planning sedition. If anything, that is worse.

531 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:42:06am

re: #220 MandyManners

Chicken shit.

Gaza Rooster!

532 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:42:27am

re: #487 DaddyG

...the spokesperson added: while the Pakistani version uses no pork products the Indian version is entirely vegitarian. /

Upding for Sepoy Mutiny reference.

533 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:42:34am

re: #518 drcordell

I'm assuming that the pro-torture contingent here is fully in support of waterboarding the captured Huatree terrorists? Perhaps just stripping them naked and throwing them in a freezing room for 3 days while being deprived of sleep, then tying their arms behind their backs and slamming them into the wall?

After all, how can we know that these terrorists don't have any more plots underway. American lives are at stake here, it would be morally wrong NOT to torture them.

I glad they were caught. Aren't you?

534 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:42:37am

re: #525 drcordell

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2384

§ 2384. Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

[Link: www.law.cornell.edu...]

Hey! Was lurking and was just about to post that. More here for everyone else:

CHAPTER 115—TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES

535 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:42:38am

re: #472 Dante41

Exactly. Hence the sedition charges. These fuckers were trying to set off a revolution.

That sounds a lot like the terrorists they pretend to be defending themselves from. Let them rot take a long time out in outer darkness a quiet and remote place.

536 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:43:26am

re: #518 drcordell

I'm assuming that the pro-torture contingent here is fully in support of waterboarding the captured Huatree terrorists? Perhaps just stripping them naked and throwing them in a freezing room for 3 days while being deprived of sleep, then tying their arms behind their backs and slamming them into the wall?

After all, how can we know that these terrorists don't have any more plots underway. American lives are at stake here, it would be morally wrong NOT to torture them.

When could no more torture them than we could do so to John Walker Lindh. They are American citizens, and thus in a different legal category than foreign Islamists.

537 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:43:29am

re: #514 Cannadian Club Akbar

Look up "Smith Act."

[Link: www.law.cornell.edu...]

Thanks!

18 U.S.C. § 2385

538 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:43:34am

IIRC, Title 18 covers all kinds of stuff. When I retired from the navy I had to sign a non-disclosure contract because of my security clearance and that was covered under Title 18.

539 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:43:57am

re: #316 pingjockey

At least it isn't kudzu!

IN to wash and go get the kid.

Kudzu is some mean shit, can't get across the Ohio River, I guess as I see it as soon as I get down to Owen County, Ky. My sister was the Kudzu Queen at the Knoxville Worlds Fair, apparently an award for clever uses for kudzu as she shares my handsomeness.

On the other hand, we got honeysuckle, myrtle, grape vine, and some new shit that's been trying to get over the fence from my neighbors property and I've been able to keep at bay by running the lawn mower up his side of the fence (which for some reason pisses him off, but he's German, so it's fun to hear him yell at me). Add to that the local stuff like Raspberry, Sassafras and Black Walnut, and it's all you can do to keep the shit from taking over anything remotely resembling wild Ohio or and organized planting.

540 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:44:09am

re: #519 The Sanity Inspector

Search for "seditious activity" rather than sedition.

No. 537.

541 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:44:19am

re: #527 Ericus58

What in the world...

What do you mean what in the world? We captured a band of religious fundamentalist terrorists who were actively plotting attacks on U.S. citizens. They were armed with heavy-caliber weapons and seeking to acquire shaped-charge penetrators for use as IED's.

If their names were Mohammed and Akbar, the right wing would be screaming to have them sent to Guantanamo. But because they were about to set off IED's in America in the name of Jesus and they were white, those same rules don't apply.

542 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:44:31am

re: #521 Lidane

Actually, it's in the U.S. Title Code. The charge isn't sedition, but rather seditious conspiracy:

[Link: www.law.cornell.edu...]

No. 537.

543 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:44:35am

More goodies:

US Code
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2385
§ 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

544 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:45:08am

re: #526 Dark_Falcon

New book I'm reading that you might like: The New Vichy Syndrome: Why European Intellectuals Surrender to Barbarism by Theodore Dalrymple. I don't know how to do the Amazon link that gives Charles credit.

I'm glad to be an American.

545 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:45:31am

re: #528 gegenkritik

A cross is a racist symbol. It offends Islam.

*snicker*

546 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:45:33am

re: #541 drcordell

What do you mean what in the world? We captured a band of religious fundamentalist terrorists who were actively plotting attacks on U.S. citizens. They were armed with heavy-caliber weapons and seeking to acquire shaped-charge penetrators for use as IED's.

If their names were Mohammed and Akbar, the right wing would be screaming to have them sent to Guantanamo. But because they were about to set off IED's in America in the name of Jesus and they were white, those same rules don't apply.

Hey!! My name is Akbar!!

547 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:45:45am

re: #539 Jeff In Ohio
Me and the neighbor do war with a Trumpet vine every spring. The hummingbirds like it, but the vine keeps trying to cover both our storage sheds.

548 soap_man  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:45:49am

re: #518 drcordell

I'm assuming that the pro-torture contingent here is fully in support of waterboarding the captured Huatree terrorists? Perhaps just stripping them naked and throwing them in a freezing room for 3 days while being deprived of sleep, then tying their arms behind their backs and slamming them into the wall?

After all, how can we know that these terrorists don't have any more plots underway. American lives are at stake here, it would be morally wrong NOT to torture them.

"Pro-torture" is another loaded term like "pro-abortion" to distort and dehumanize those who hold a different opinion, IMHO.

549 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:46:03am

re: #526 Dark_Falcon

New book I'm reading that you might like: The New Vichy Syndrome: Why European Intellectuals Surrender to Barbarism by Theodore Dalrymple. I don't know how to do the Amazon link that gives Charles credit.

The LGF link is added automatically.

550 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:46:13am

If no one else has posted: The charges against the Hutaree militia have been announced. Nine individuals (one still at large) are said to have planned the killing of a policeman, to be followed by an IED/rifle attack on the usual funeral turnout of officers.

[Link: news.google.com...]

551 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:46:24am

re: #541 drcordell

What do you mean what in the world? We captured a band of religious fundamentalist terrorists who were actively plotting attacks on U.S. citizens. They were armed with heavy-caliber weapons and seeking to acquire shaped-charge penetrators for use as IED's.

If their names were Mohammed and Akbar, the right wing would be screaming to have them sent to Guantanamo. But because they were about to set off IED's in America in the name of Jesus and they were white, those same rules don't apply.

Project much, do ya?
You are Wrong. Period.

552 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:46:27am

re: #544 MandyManners

I'm glad to be an American.

Me too.

553 keloyd  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:46:33am

re: #528 gegenkritik

A cross is a racist symbol. It offends Islam.

and Romans!

554 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:47:08am

re: #541 drcordell

What do you mean what in the world? We captured a band of religious fundamentalist terrorists who were actively plotting attacks on U.S. citizens. They were armed with heavy-caliber weapons and seeking to acquire shaped-charge penetrators for use as IED's.

If their names were Mohammed and Akbar, the right wing would be screaming to have them sent to Guantanamo. But because they were about to set off IED's in America in the name of Jesus and they were white, those same rules don't apply.

Then why don't you go complain at some blog where there are commenters who are proposing that stance... because I find no one here that has suggested that these people are anything less than seditious terrorists.

Straw man. (Of course you knew that?)

555 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:47:21am

re: #553 keloyd

and Romans!

No, no, no...

Vampires.

/

556 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:47:23am

re: #550 Decatur Deb

If no one else has posted: The charges against the Hutaree militia have been announced. Nine individuals (one still at large) are said to have planned the killing of a policeman, to be followed by an IED/rifle attack on the usual funeral turnout of officers.

[Link: news.google.com...]

Someone above posted the name "Joshua Stone".

557 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:47:31am

Holy crap! It's Monday! Beer at noon!!

558 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:47:39am

re: #541 drcordell

What do you mean what in the world? We captured a band of religious fundamentalist terrorists who were actively plotting attacks on U.S. citizens. They were armed with heavy-caliber weapons and seeking to acquire shaped-charge penetrators for use as IED's.

If their names were Mohammed and Akbar, the right wing would be screaming to have them sent to Guantanamo. But because they were about to set off IED's in America in the name of Jesus and they were white, those same rules don't apply.

No. It is beyond that. We have a fringe group of maniacs who were planning to kill peace officers to start a violent revolution. They are seditionous bastards, and I would not bat an eye if they were hanged for this.

559 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:47:39am

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

When could no more torture them than we could do so to John Walker Lindh. They are American citizens, and thus in a different legal category than foreign Islamists.

That's not true. Jose Padilla was held indefinitely as an "enemy combatant" even though he was a U.S. citizen. They can be held as long as we like without any of their U.S. rights because this is wartime and they are terrorists.

A federal appeals court yesterday backed the president's power to indefinitely detain a U.S. citizen captured on U.S. soil without any criminal charges, holding that such authority is vital during wartime to protect the nation from terrorist attacks.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

560 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:48:14am

I have about 50 links on my desktop and the only way to get rid of them is to shut down. bbl

561 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:48:35am

re: #549 The Sanity Inspector

The LGF link is added automatically.

Ok, link is here.

562 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:48:41am

re: #523 MandyManners

Like Tigger on meth?

Bouncy Bouncy, Flouncy Flouncy, F-f-f-f-freaking out?

563 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:48:50am

re: #548 soap_man

"Pro-torture" is another loaded term like "pro-abortion" to distort and dehumanize those who hold a different opinion, IMHO.

Yes. Because torturing someone is completely morally akin to an abortion.

564 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:49:13am

re: #499 Dante41

To them, you are just another fascist bootlicker who needs to be purged in the name of the Constitution and the good of the Nation.

Which is hilarious to me, because as a liberal, I spent the previous administration being told that I was an America-hating godless hippie who wanted the terrorists to win.

I've graduated to fascist bootlicker! That's awesome. Heh.

It makes no sense to anyone who is sane.

Very true. I guess being sane is what keeps me from understanding these nutjobs.

565 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:49:17am

re: #541 drcordell
Umm. Not me. American citizens, no matter who they are, get afforded constitutional protections. Non-uniformed enemy combatants captured in battle over seas should not be afforded the same rights.

566 Ericus58  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:49:27am

I'm off to a meeting.
I'll try and catch up.

567 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:50:08am

re: #558 Dante41

No. It is beyond that. We have a fringe group of maniacs who were planning to kill peace officers to start a violent revolution. They are seditionous bastards, and I would not bat an eye if they were hanged for this.

Beyond that? It's exactly the same. To a T. Except these guys are white and love Jesus. So they won't be sent to Syria and tortured.

568 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:50:53am

re: #542 MandyManners

Gah. Missed it by a section. Damn.

569 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:50:59am

re: #559 drcordell
I didn't know that. So the Feds have pulled what Lincoln did during the Civil War and suspended Habeaus Corpus?

570 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:51:17am

re: #559 drcordell

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

"Held as an enemy combatant" is different from "tortured". You said that you expected the "pro-torture crowd" to endorse the brutalization of those militia nuts and I said that to do so would be clearly illegal due their being citizens.

571 soap_man  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:51:19am

re: #563 drcordell

Yes. Because torturing someone is completely morally akin to an abortion.

No, it's not the same. That's not what I said. I was talking about terms used by opponents, not the act itself. Don't put words in my mouth.

572 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:51:36am

re: #565 pingjockey

Umm. Not me. American citizens, no matter who they are, get afforded constitutional protections. Non-uniformed enemy combatants captured in battle over seas should not be afforded the same rights.

You are so, so, so very wrong. Go look up Jose Padilla and see how much protection his U.S. citizenship got him. The courts ruled that if you're ruled an "enemy combatant" you can be denied any and all of your Constitutional rights. No matter if you're an American citizen or not.

A federal appeals court yesterday backed the president's power to indefinitely detain a U.S. citizen captured on U.S. soil without any criminal charges, holding that such authority is vital during wartime to protect the nation from terrorist attacks.


[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

573 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:52:09am

re: #539 Jeff In Ohio

...he's German, so it's fun to hear him yell at me...

Vat?! You vind dat vunny nincompoop?! /

574 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:52:10am

re: #567 drcordell

Beyond that? It's exactly the same. To a T. Except these guys are white and love Jesus. So they won't be sent to Syria and tortured.

No, what I am trying to tell you is that they are worse than terrorists. They were actively planning an uprising to overthrow the government. We used to hang people for that, and I have no problems bringing that punishment back.

575 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:53:15am

re: #572 drcordell

Do you think Jose Padilla's rights were violated? Is he the victim?

576 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:54:02am

re: #565 pingjockey

Umm. Not me. American citizens, no matter who they are, get afforded constitutional protections. Non-uniformed enemy combatants captured in battle over seas should not be afforded the same rights.

Quite Concur.

577 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:54:03am

Out, bbl.

578 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:54:09am

re: #570 Dark_Falcon

"Held as an enemy combatant" is different from "tortured". You said that you expected the "pro-torture crowd" to endorse the brutalization of those militia nuts and I said that to do so would be clearly illegal due their being citizens.

Again. You are completely and unequivocally wrong. Jose Padilla was tortured, despite the fact that he is a U.S. citizen.


[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

579 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:54:12am

re: #443 Killgore Trout

Militia Members Planned To Kill Cop And Bomb Funeral, Prosecutors Say

Damn. That's nuts. We're supposed to find out more about this today. I guess this is part of it.

580 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:54:19am

re: #572 drcordell
Yah. I saw your post. I didn't know that. Thanks. I'll be honest, I'd like to torture these fucks and then I remember what this country is supposed to stand for and the constituition I defended and I go the other way. Color me very morally confused on the torture issue.

581 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:54:21am

re: #475 Obdicut

A lot of these groups really feel that if they just start something, if they just light the spark, that a revolution will follow.

"Helter Skelter - She's comin' down fast."
- Lennon/McCartney (as interpreted by Charles Manson)

582 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:55:12am

re: #576 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

You can concur all you want, but that doesn't make you right. I'll link you again just to make sure you saw it.

A federal appeals court yesterday backed the president's power to indefinitely detain a U.S. citizen captured on U.S. soil without any criminal charges, holding that such authority is vital during wartime to protect the nation from terrorist attacks.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

583 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:55:16am

re: #563 drcordell

Yes. Because torturing someone is completely morally akin to an abortion.


Wow.

We're gazing... we're gazing... we're moving on.

584 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:55:31am

re: #571 soap_man

No, it's not the same. That's not what I said. I was talking about terms used by opponents, not the act itself. Don't put words in my mouth.

Forget it, Soap. He's shit-stirring. It's what he does in circumstances like this. He gets inflammatory, then we all downding him..

585 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:56:23am

re: #575 NJDhockeyfan

Do you think Jose Padilla's rights were violated? Is he the victim?

Yes his rights were violated. I don't believe the U.S. should have the right to torture anyone, regardless of whether or not they are a citizen. Call me a crazy Reaganite for wishing some semblance of moral authority for my nation.

586 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:56:43am

re: #564 Lidane

Very true. I guess being sane is what keeps me from understanding these nutjobs.

Oh, no. To this brand of nut, you were always a fascist bootlicker. To them, anyone who isn't a libertarian are booklicking sheeple who hate their freedoms, and thus don't deserve them. Also, you should be thrown on the wall during their REVOLution(tm).

587 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:57:00am

re: #569 pingjockey

I didn't know that. So the Feds have pulled what Lincoln did during the Civil War and suspended Habeaus Corpus?

That's a lawyer question, but it seems so. The difference is that the War of Northern Aggression had an end-date, and some of our people want an "endless war" in the East.

588 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:57:01am

re: #578 drcordell

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

From that article:

Defense Department officials reject charges that Padilla was mistreated. "The government in the strongest terms denies Padilla's allegations of torture – allegations made without support and without citing a shred of record evidence," writes Navy Commander J.D. Gordon, a spokesman for the secretary of Defense, in an e-mail. "Any credible allegations of illegal conduct by US military personnel are taken seriously and looked into in painstaking detail."

He adds, "There has never been a substantiated case of detainee abuse at Charleston Navy brig."

I'll take the word of a naval officer over that of a defense lawyer.

589 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:57:18am

re: #580 pingjockey

Yah. I saw your post. I didn't know that. Thanks. I'll be honest, I'd like to torture these fucks and then I remember what this country is supposed to stand for and the constituition I defended and I go the other way. Color me very morally confused on the torture issue.

There you go! Of course I would LOVE to torture terrorists. I would love to torture these militia fucks as well. But that would mean stooping to the level of the terrorists themselves.

590 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:57:31am

Back to work. Later.

591 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:58:41am

re: #587 Decatur Deb

Heh. All of my great aunts and uncles in Arkansas used "war of Northern Agression."

592 Kragar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:58:51am

re: #555 Gus 802

No, no, no...

Vampires.

/

Sparkly puss boy vamp or Vlad Tepes vamps?

593 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:58:55am

re: #588 Dark_Falcon

I'll take the word of a naval officer over that of a defense lawyer.

But, but, he said he was tortured!! It must be true!!

594 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:59:02am

re: #569 pingjockey

I didn't know that. So the Feds have pulled what Lincoln did during the Civil War and suspended Habeaus Corpus?

To be fair, that was legal. Habeaus Corpus can be suspended in times of revolt.

595 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:59:56am

re: #588 Dark_Falcon

I'll take the word of a naval officer over that of a defense lawyer.

Right. Believe whomever you want. The underlying point is that Padilla received no protection whatsoever from his status as a U.S. citizen. And the treatment he received was based on the fact that he was labeled a "terrorist" and more specifically an "Islamic terrorist."

Contrast that with how these militiamen are being treated. Similar charges of attempting to launch terrorist attacks the U.S., with arguably even more evidence since these militia fucks were already heavily, heavily armed. Yet these right-wingers will most certainly not be subjected to the same sleep deprivation abuses that Padilla experienced.

596 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:00:13am

re: #572 drcordell

First of all, I think that most people who are 'pro-torture' here-- and by that I mean those who, unlike myself, endorse the use of torture as an intelligence-gathering tool in some circumstances-- would be fine with the same 'torture' being applied to these Hutaree people as to KSM and the rest. I do not think there is the kind of inconsistency you think there is. If LE had reason to believe there was an imminent, unthwarted threat from the Hutaree, I think that those who support torture-- waterboarding, etc.-- would support its use in this case.

I do not support torture. I consider anyone who supports the use of waterboarding to be at the best severely misguided. However, I do not think the support for is as tied to hatred or double-standards for Muslims as you think.

597 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:00:18am

re: #579 Gus 802

Damn. That's nuts. We're supposed to find out more about this today. I guess this is part of it.

I'm sticking to the 48-hr rule on this one. I'd like to see their evidence. There are 2 recent cases that popped into my head where the feds were the ones pushing "disgruntled" outcasts into planning attacks on the government. After doing just some basic research into the group and their beliefs I'm not sure what prompted them to believe an attack on the police would fit in with their goals.

598 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:00:48am

re: #591 pingjockey

Heh. All of my great aunts and uncles in Arkansas used "war of Northern Agression."

I bet every Northerner they know had the same last name: "Yankee".

599 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:01:04am

re: #589 drcordell
It still drives me batshit. I was in from '77 to '97 and was around for a lot of the terrorist shit and there were times, I swear to God I would've supported the use of Nukes. Terrible I know.

600 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:01:46am

re: #591 pingjockey

Heh. All of my great aunts and uncles in Arkansas used "war of Northern Agression."

My kids' history teachers insisted on "The War Between the States", at least through
the 1990's.

601 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:01:49am

re: #598 DaddyG

I bet every Northerner they know had the same last name: "Yankee".

First name: Fuckin'.
/

602 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:02:00am

re: #586 Dante41

Oh, no. To this brand of nut, you were always a fascist bootlicker. To them, anyone who isn't a libertarian are booklicking sheeple who hate their freedoms, and thus don't deserve them. Also, you should be thrown on the wall during their REVOLution(tm).

Ah. I know people who think like that, only they're not the armed revolutionary type. They're the Mises Institute worshipping, Ayn Rand reading, anarcho-capitalist types who advocate for privatizing law enforcement and the judicial system, along with damn near everything else, because the government is evil and anyone who supports even having a government is a statist who hates capitalism.

Or, as I like to call them, deluded glibertarians. I guess these nutbars in Michigan just decided to throw God, guns, and bombs into the mix.

603 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:02:03am

I've been looking at kavkazcenter. com. Pretty interesting stuff there.

604 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:02:07am

re: #594 Dante41
Oh yes, agree. I just didn't know we'd done it to Padilla.

605 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:02:24am

re: #601 Cannadian Club Akbar

Damn....

606 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:02:43am

re: #596 Obdicut

First of all, I think that most people who are 'pro-torture' here-- and by that I mean those who, unlike myself, endorse the use of torture as an intelligence-gathering tool in some circumstances-- would be fine with the same 'torture' being applied to these Hutaree people as to KSM and the rest. I do not think there is the kind of inconsistency you think there is. If LE had reason to believe there was an imminent, unthwarted threat from the Hutaree, I think that those who support torture-- waterboarding, etc.-- would support its use in this case.

I do not support torture. I consider anyone who supports the use of waterboarding to be at the best severely misguided. However, I do not think the support for is as tied to hatred or double-standards for Muslims as you think.

Thank you, Obdicut, for that fair-minded and honest assessment.

607 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:04:08am

re: #597 RogueOne

I agree, though I think it is very, very unlikely that such a major charge would have been brought if the FBI or another group was actually instigating this.

I agree that there's reason for withholding judgement, but I don't think this is going to wind up being entrapment of any form.

We'll see what evidence the government has.

608 gamark  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:04:14am

re: #572 drcordell

You are so, so, so very wrong. Go look up Jose Padilla and see how much protection his U.S. citizenship got him. The courts ruled that if you're ruled an "enemy combatant" you can be denied any and all of your Constitutional rights. No matter if you're an American citizen or not.

So the ruling of the courts has no bearing on whether or not something is Constitutional? Are you a lawyer? Can you point to a court ruling that supports your contention?

609 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:04:23am

BBIAB, time go and ave my insurance go through the roof. My 16 yr old got his license Saturday. 16 yr old BOY. Which is way higher than if you have girls. :(

610 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:04:31am

re: #602 Lidane

Ah. I know people who think like that, only they're not the armed revolutionary type. They're the Mises Institute worshipping, Ayn Rand reading, anarcho-capitalist types who advocate for privatizing law enforcement and the judicial system, along with damn near everything else, because the government is evil and anyone who supports even having a government is a statist who hates capitalism.

Or, as I like to call them, deluded glibertarians. I guess these nutbars in Michigan just decided to throw God, guns, and bombs into the mix.

Yeah. When a libertarian goes violent, they look like that profile, but packing a lot more heat.

611 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:05:13am

re: #609 pingjockey

With Sympathy.

612 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:05:14am

re: #596 Obdicut

First of all, I think that most people who are 'pro-torture' here-- and by that I mean those who, unlike myself, endorse the use of torture as an intelligence-gathering tool in some circumstances-- would be fine with the same 'torture' being applied to these Hutaree people as to KSM and the rest. I do not think there is the kind of inconsistency you think there is. If LE had reason to believe there was an imminent, unthwarted threat from the Hutaree, I think that those who support torture-- waterboarding, etc.-- would support its use in this case.

I do not support torture. I consider anyone who supports the use of waterboarding to be at the best severely misguided. However, I do not think the support for is as tied to hatred or double-standards for Muslims as you think.

What bothers me is the complete abandonment of any moral standards for the treatment of captured prisoners. Notice that the first thing that was brought up by my opponents was U.S. citizenship. Not that torture is morally wrong. Not that torture is completely ineffective at producing actionable intelligence. But that they are U.S. citizens so they shouldn't be tortured. Nevermind that the Bush administration has already made it legal to detain any U.S. citizen they deem a terrorist indefinitely without charge or trial.

The point is that treatment of a human being should not differ based on their nationality, race or religion. And that nobody should be tortured by the U.S. government, citizen or not. What's scary is that so many people don't realize that even your U.S. citizenship can't save you. That even a U.S. citizen can be legally "disappeared" by the Government with no trial and no due process. Indefinitely.

613 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:05:33am

I’d advocate treating these domestic terrorists like we do enemy combatants but I think a free Bible three squares a day and an extended stay on a Caribbean island is going to easy on them. /

614 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:05:49am

A Yankee is someone who lives above the Mason-Dixon Line.

A Damn Yankee is someone who lives above the Mason-Dixon Line who visits the South.

A G. Damn Yankee is someone who lives above the Mason-Dixon Line and who visits the South and decides to stay.

615 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:06:05am

re: #608 gamark

So the ruling of the courts has no bearing on whether or not something is Constitutional? Are you a lawyer? Can you point to a court ruling that supports your contention?

Yeah, good luck bringing that one before the Supreme Court. I'm sure John Roberts agrees with you 100%

616 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:06:29am

re: #609 pingjockey

BBIAB, time go and ave my insurance go through the roof. My 16 yr old got his license Saturday. 16 yr old BOY. Which is way higher than if you have girls. :(

Got a 'script for Valium yet?

617 deadletterboy  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:06:32am

So...I just called my attorney general (Mike Cox here in MI) to let him know I disagree with him joining the lawsuit against the health care bill, and that I'd rather my tax dollars get spent on healthcare than his dumbass lawsuit (though I didn't phrase it that way) and they basically just said yep, and hung up on me. Is that how interactions are supposed to happen? Shouldn't they have taken some information from me?

618 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:06:32am

RoP in Moscow (some graphic images)
Subway bomb: First video, photos moments after Moscow metro suicide blasts

Video shot immediately after the explosion at the Park Kultury metro station in Moscow

619 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:06:57am

re: #614 MandyManners

A Yankee is someone who lives above the Mason-Dixon Line.

A Damn Yankee is someone who lives above the Mason-Dixon Line who visits the South.

A G. Damn Yankee is someone who lives above the Mason-Dixon Line and who visits the South and decides to stay.

Bah. You'd think they'd be honored that said Yankee likes the South above the North, and would voluntarily "defect".

620 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:07:16am

re: #614 MandyManners

Carpetbagger, here.

621 keloyd  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:07:48am

re: #600 Decatur Deb

My kids' history teachers insisted on "The War Between the States", at least through
the 1990's.

Well, that's what it was. I still call it that when I can get away with it, specifically when my words won't imply some kind of racist dog whistle. The Confederacy was not attempting to overthrow the US government and install its own people. That's technically what you need to do to have a civil war. We ( 2/3 of my ancestors) just wanted to leave. Maybe the strict constructionists don't approve, but the 'living breathing document' scholars would allow it, if we had won.

Bonus - yall have all seen those emails go around comparing our slacker kids today with the past. They have modern 10th grade exam questions vs. 1900 on history, English lit, etc. I wish I had a link, but it turns out NORTHERN books used the term "The Great Rebellion" in 1900, not "civil war."

622 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:07:56am

re: #619 Dante41

Bah. You'd think they'd be honored that said Yankee likes the South above the North, and would voluntarily "defect".

As long as he doesn't mock the accent or refer to a singular person as "ya'll".

623 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:08:00am

re: #608 gamark

So the ruling of the courts has no bearing on whether or not something is Constitutional? Are you a lawyer? Can you point to a court ruling that supports your contention?

All snark aside, the ruling hasn't been successfully challenged yet. So yes, as far as the law is concerned this is all 100% legal.

624 soap_man  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:08:13am

re: #617 deadletterboy

So...I just called my attorney general (Mike Cox here in MI) to let him know I disagree with him joining the lawsuit against the health care bill, and that I'd rather my tax dollars get spent on healthcare than his dumbass lawsuit (though I didn't phrase it that way) and they basically just said yep, and hung up on me. Is that how interactions are supposed to happen? Shouldn't they have taken some information from me?

They never do, Dem or GOP. They say "thank your for your input" and send you a generic, talking points laden letter in response. Often the response has little to nothing to do with the topic of your comments or complaints.

625 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:08:15am

re: #617 deadletterboy

I think they usually just keep a rough tally of how many call they get for or against something. Not sure how much of a difference it makes.

626 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:08:38am

re: #613 DaddyG

I’d advocate treating these domestic terrorists like we do enemy combatants but I think a free Bible three squares a day and an extended stay on a Caribbean island is going to easy on them. /

that depends on whether or we put them in with enemy combatants or not...

627 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:08:42am

re: #620 Decatur Deb

Carpetbagger, here.

Please, see No. 622.

628 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:08:53am

re: #618 Killgore Trout

RoP in Moscow (some graphic images)
Subway bomb: First video, photos moments after Moscow metro suicide blasts

[Video]

ROPMA

629 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:09:48am

re: #617 deadletterboy

So...I just called my attorney general (Mike Cox here in MI) to let him know I disagree with him joining the lawsuit against the health care bill, and that I'd rather my tax dollars get spent on healthcare than his dumbass lawsuit (though I didn't phrase it that way) and they basically just said yep, and hung up on me. Is that how interactions are supposed to happen? Shouldn't they have taken some information from me?

Politicians not listening to their constituents opinions on healthcare? Shocka!

630 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:09:50am

re: #621 keloyd

Well, that's what it was. I still call it that when I can get away with it, specifically when my words won't imply some kind of racist dog whistle. The Confederacy was not attempting to overthrow the US government and install its own people. That's technically what you need to do to have a civil war. We ( 2/3 of my ancestors) just wanted to leave. Maybe the strict constructionists don't approve, but the 'living breathing document' scholars would allow it, if we had won.

Bonus - yall have all seen those emails go around comparing our slacker kids today with the past. They have modern 10th grade exam questions vs. 1900 on history, English lit, etc. I wish I had a link, but it turns out NORTHERN books used the term "The Great Rebellion" in 1900, not "civil war."

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

631 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:10:35am

re: #622 MandyManners

As long as he doesn't mock the accent or refer to a singular person as "ya'll".

Give him time. An Alabama country boy would have a hard time not doing the above in NYC.

632 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:10:48am

re: #625 Killgore Trout

I think they usually just keep a rough tally of how many call they get for or against something. Not sure how much of a difference it makes.

Hi Killgore! I think you're exactly right. And, IIRC, there used to be a formula that assumed X-thousand non-callers would have the same opinion as one caller who actually contacted them. (Can't remember exactly what the "X" in X-thousand actually was.) Not sure if that's still the case, given the rise of e-mail, etc.

633 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:11:02am

re: #629 DaddyG

Politicians not listening to their constituents opinions on healthcare? Shocka!

Yeah, how dare those Democrats enact the bill that they were elected into office campaigning on.

634 keloyd  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:12:18am

re: #630 Decatur Deb

Touche.

I still think Lincoln should have had a dictionary to show him that's the wrong word to use.

635 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:12:56am

re: #632 subsailor68

I suspect elected officials might pay more attention to the tally because they have to run for election. An AG is appointed so they probably don't care very much about what's unpopular.

636 garhighway  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:12:59am

re: #612 drcordell

What bothers me is the complete abandonment of any moral standards for the treatment of captured prisoners. Notice that the first thing that was brought up by my opponents was U.S. citizenship. Not that torture is morally wrong. Not that torture is completely ineffective at producing actionable intelligence. But that they are U.S. citizens so they shouldn't be tortured. Nevermind that the Bush administration has already made it legal to detain any U.S. citizen they deem a terrorist indefinitely without charge or trial.

The point is that treatment of a human being should not differ based on their nationality, race or religion. And that nobody should be tortured by the U.S. government, citizen or not. What's scary is that so many people don't realize that even your U.S. citizenship can't save you. That even a U.S. citizen can be legally "disappeared" by the Government with no trial and no due process. Indefinitely.

Interesting, though, that no one has explicitly answered your question.

637 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:13:20am

re: #633 drcordell

Yeah, how dare those Democrats enact the bill that they were elected into office campaigning on.

They did a fine job of listening to their constituents. Let's see how many still have a job after November.

638 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:13:30am

re: #619 Dante41

Bah. You'd think they'd be honored that said Yankee likes the South above the North, and would voluntarily "defect".


On three conditions:

1. They learn the difference between BBQ and grilling
2. They refrain from saying "the way we did it where I'm from is..."
3. They understand that just cause your cat had kittens in the oven doesn’t make 'em biscuits

(full disclosure – I am a reformed yankee)

639 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:13:53am

re: #631 Dante41

Give him time. An Alabama country boy would have a hard time not doing the above in NYC.

Three of my kids were born in KY, and spent some time there. When we transferred to NJ schools, the teachers couldn't get enough of their Pittsburgh/Southern accents. (And "Sir/Ma'am".)

640 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:14:13am

re: #635 Killgore Trout

I suspect elected officials might pay more attention to the tally because they have to run for election. An AG is appointed so they probably don't care very much about what's unpopular.

Yeah that's probably true.

641 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:14:54am

re: #638 DaddyG

On three conditions:

1. They learn the difference between BBQ and grilling
2. They refrain from saying "the way we did it where I'm from is..."
3. They understand that just cause your cat had kittens in the oven doesn’t make 'em biscuits

(full disclosure – I am a reformed yankee)

do you have to go to meetings?

642 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:15:26am

re: #631 Dante41

Give him time. An Alabama country boy would have a hard time not doing the above in NYC.

An Alabama boy would NOT refer to a single person as "ya'll".

643 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:16:05am

re: #638 DaddyG

On three conditions:

1. They learn the difference between BBQ and grilling
2. They refrain from saying "the way we did it where I'm from is..."
3. They understand that just cause your cat had kittens in the oven doesn’t make 'em biscuits

(full disclosure – I am a reformed yankee)

Heh. As a 4th generation Texan, and god knows how many generations prior Alabaman, I really take issue with people who do #2. And then, I know in my heart I would do the same if I was transplanted elsewhere.

644 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:16:31am

re: #638 DaddyG

On three conditions:

1. They learn the difference between BBQ and grilling
2. They refrain from saying "the way we did it where I'm from is..."
3. They understand that just cause your cat had kittens in the oven doesn’t make 'em biscuits

(full disclosure – I am a reformed yankee)

And, don't ever make fun of the phrase "fixin' to".

645 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:16:52am

re: #612 drcordell

What bothers me is the complete abandonment of any moral standards for the treatment of captured prisoners.

What bothers me is the abandonment of certain standards for the treatment of captured prisoners, since in no way have we abandoned all standards.

Notice that the first thing that was brought up by my opponents was U.S. citizenship.

I think it would be honestly helpful to you if you didn't think of other people on this website as 'opponents', even if they hold a position that you diametrically disagree with.

Nevermind that the Bush administration has already made it legal to detain any U.S. citizen they deem a terrorist indefinitely without charge or trial.

Yes, the U.S. citizen = greater protections is somewhat of a canard. Really, citizenship just alters the political atmosphere, and shouldn't touch the constitutional rights argument at all. You are completely right that Fourth Circuit court ruled that Bush had the power to so detain Padilla, though you are incorrect in saying that Bush just had to deem them a terrorist-- they found specifically that it had to be tied to the 9/11 attacks.

It's a small point, but it is an important one; when attempting to correct others on the facts, it behooves you to be very certain about your own facts.

I do not agree with that circuit court decision, either.


The point is that treatment of a human being should not differ based on their nationality, race or religion. And that nobody should be tortured by the U.S. government, citizen or not. What's scary is that so many people don't realize that even your U.S. citizenship can't save you. That even a U.S. citizen can be legally "disappeared" by the Government with no trial and no due process. Indefinitely.

Padilla wasn't disappeared. He was always rather highly visible. And American citizenship has never saved people from the abuses of the US government, and I'm not sure why anyone would think that it would.

I agree with your overall points, but not in the least with your presentation of the points. Yes, we should never torture. Yes, the constitution was meant as a definition of the rights of all men and how those rights would be protected in the US-- not how those rights would be protected for citizens.

However, that's irrelevant to your main point; those who support waterboarding of captured Islamic terrorist would in the main, contrary to your assertion, support waterboarding of Christian terrorists. I firmly believe that statement-- which is also an allegation of very evil bigotry-- is false.

646 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:17:30am

re: #639 Decatur Deb

Three of my kids were born in KY, and spent some time there. When we transferred to NJ schools, the teachers couldn't get enough of their Pittsburgh/Southern accents. (And "Sir/Ma'am".)

My sister and I were mocked and teased for that when we moved to Chicago. Our teachers got really pissed and enforced it on the rest of the students.

647 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:17:41am

re: #633 drcordell

Yeah, how dare those Democrats enact the bill that they were elected into office campaigning on.


Please speak for yourself. I'll do my own stupid thank you.

648 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:17:41am

re: #624 soap_man

Every time I wrote to Tsongas I got a very short personal reply, which I really liked.

It was only three times.

I really liked that guy.

649 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:17:46am

re: #642 MandyManners

An Alabama boy would NOT refer to a single person as "ya'll".

...true. However, I find it hard to believe that he would not make fun of a true Brooklyn accent.

650 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:18:20am

re: #643 Dante41

Heh. As a 4th generation Texan, and god knows how many generations prior Alabaman, I really only take issue with people who do #2. And then, I know in my heart I would do the same if I was transplanted elsewhere.

FTFM

651 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:18:45am

re: #634 keloyd

Touche.

I still think Lincoln should have had a dictionary to show him that's the wrong word to use.

At least he didn't call himself a Jelly Donut. /

652 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:19:04am

re: #607 Obdicut

I agree, though I think it is very, very unlikely that such a major charge would have been brought if the FBI or another group was actually instigating this.

I agree that there's reason for withholding judgement, but I don't think this is going to wind up being entrapment of any form.

We'll see what evidence the government has.

I don't doubt for a second that the charges are entirely possible, I'm just going to wait to see if anyone was on the federal payroll before I start calling for the waterboarding.

653 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:19:09am

And in other War on Terror news, Britain suffered a truly tragic loss on Saturday:


Tragedy of 'band of brothers' trio serving in same British regiment as one is killed by suicide bomber

Godspeed to Daniel Holkham. His valiant defense of freedom should never be forgotten. For him and his Family:

654 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:19:25am

re: #649 Dante41

...true. However, I find it hard to believe that he would not make fun of a true Brooklyn accent.

If he could understand it... even I have a hard time doing that.

655 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:19:45am

My moms side of the family is from Arkansas and I spent 3 weeks leave there in 1983 on my way to Rhode Island. After being there that long my accent was thick enough to cut with a knife. Granpa said the "damn yankees" wouldn't be able to understand me. I am the oldest and grew up around a bunch of transplanted Arkies who moved out here to WA state during the depression to work in the orchards so I've always had a touch of south of the mouth as it were. :)

656 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:20:58am

re: #643 Dante41

Heh. As a 4th generation Texan, and god knows how many generations prior Alabaman, I really take issue with people who do #2. And then, I know in my heart I would do the same if I was transplanted elsewhere.

Hi Dante! LOL! Gotta fess up. Twenty years ago, my wife and I moved here to Texas from California. But, we made friends very quickly, because we'd make the point that we moved to Texas to become Texans, not to try and make Texans become Californians.

Oh yeah, we're always the first to make fun of folks who come from other places and move into gated communities around here - you know, the ones where the houses are close enough together to pass the toothpaste back and forth. We always ask: "Have you people seen how much freakin' open land we've got around here?"

;-)

657 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:21:21am

re: #652 RogueOne

Given the extent of the information, they had to either have an informant or wiretaps. I'm hoping it was wiretapping* and not an involved member, for the reasons you state. It makes it a much cleaner case.

*of the legal variety.

658 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:21:34am

re: #641 brookly red

do you have to go to meetings?


Yes. Our friends carry us their in their pick-up. We eat BBQ. I'm fixin' to go to one in a spell.

659 soap_man  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:23:16am

re: #648 Obdicut

Every time I wrote to Tsongas I got a very short personal reply, which I really liked.

It was only three times.

I really liked that guy.

I've written two letters in the past year or so. One to the rep from where I live (Dem) and one to the rep from where I work (GOP). I got generic responses from both. They—or their staff—probably didn't even read it. I could have sent them a letter in Latin and they probably wouldn't have noticed.

660 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:23:16am

re: #658 DaddyG

Yes. Our friends carry us their in their pick-up. We eat BBQ. I'm fixin' to go to one in a spell.

have a good meeting then...

661 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:24:38am

re: #659 soap_man

...snip I could have sent them a letter in Latin and they probably wouldn't have noticed.

File under "Immigration Reform".

662 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:24:49am
663 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:25:26am

re: #656 subsailor68

Hi Dante! LOL! Gotta fess up. Twenty years ago, my wife and I moved here to Texas from California. But, we made friends very quickly, because we'd make the point that we moved to Texas to become Texans, not to try and make Texans become Californians.

Oh yeah, we're always the first to make fun of folks who come from other places and move into gated communities around here - you know, the ones where the houses are close enough together to pass the toothpaste back and forth. We always ask: "Have you people seen how much freakin' open land we've got around here?"

;-)

Hey, SubSailor. Good to see ya! Which part of Texas did you move to? You live out in the plains, or down near the Gulf Coast?

And yes. The "things". They set them up in converted commercial space in Houston so people can own Inner-Loop property, but not have to take part in Inner-Loop culture.

664 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:25:29am

My daughter just whipped up a batch of homemade mayonnaise, my daughter-in-law is baking brownies, and my other daughter-in-law is washing stuff and keeping the preparation area clear. All I have to do is assign tasks and make sure that the food prep is moving along.

My sons and Zedushka are keeping the kids entertained.

665 soap_man  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:25:54am

re: #661 Decatur Deb

File under "Immigration Reform".

Ha! That was actually the subject of the letter to the GOP rep. The letter to the Dem was about my opposition to the public option.

666 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:26:08am

re: #662 Conservative Moonbat

Yeah, and the puritan-o-sphere is venting over it. However, it seems like something that ought to be subject to the 48-hour rule.

667 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:26:12am

/Michael Steele is a lesbian? no way...

668 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:26:24am

This Hutaree movement is quite the piece of work and their plans to murder law enforcement officers is just heinous. Glad that the FBI moved in when they did to nab 'em, although one of these guys is still on the loose - Joshua Stone. The way that many of these militia movements are heavily armed, it makes executing arrest warrants against them all the more dangerous for anyone in the vicinity. The indictment is here. More here.

669 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:26:27am

re: #662 Conservative Moonbat

Sorry for the koslink but Michael Steele Spends GOP Funds at Lesbian Themed Bondage Club.

The new GOP: One big studded pink leather tent. /

670 gamark  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:26:33am

re: #615 drcordell

Ah, I understand now. drcordell gets to decide what is or is not constitutional.

Anyway, as to your contention that these guys won't be tortured (or sent to Syria) because they are white and love Jesus, I can point to cases where non-white, non-jesus loving people charged with terrorism were not tortured nor sent out of country, but are being handled just like these militia nuts are being handled. IMO, that invalidates your contention.

671 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:27:00am

re: #666 freetoken

Yeah, and the puritan-o-sphere is venting over it. However, it seems like something that ought to be subject to the 48-hour rule.

Got any good links?

672 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:27:21am

re: #664 Alouette

My daughter just whipped up a batch of homemade mayonnaise, my daughter-in-law is baking brownies, and my other daughter-in-law is washing stuff and keeping the preparation area clear. All I have to do is assign tasks and make sure that the food prep is moving along.

My sons and Zedushka are keeping the kids entertained.

The first rule of good supervision is the proper delegation of authority. :)

673 steve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:27:31am

re: #659 soap_man

I've written two letters in the past year or so. One to the rep from where I live (Dem) and one to the rep from where I work (GOP). I got generic responses from both. They—or their staff—probably didn't even read it. I could have sent them a letter in Latin and they probably wouldn't have noticed.

Seriously, you should do that just to see what kind of response you would get. I would be interested to know>

674 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:27:34am

re: #659 soap_man

I've written two letters in the past year or so. One to the rep from where I live (Dem) and one to the rep from where I work (GOP). I got generic responses from both. They—or their staff—probably didn't even read it. I could have sent them a letter in Latin and they probably wouldn't have noticed.

LOL! I wish you'd written something like, "to quote the Emperor Augustus: "Festina lente"." Then you could sit back and watch their heads explode as they tried to figure out what that meant.

;-)

675 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:27:51am

re: #662 Conservative Moonbat

Sorry for the koslink but Michael Steele Spends GOP Funds at Lesbian Themed Bondage Club.

You know, I cannot fault him for this.

In fact, I approve whole-heartedly.

676 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:28:14am

re: #671 Conservative Moonbat

There was some venting this morning over on Townhall.

What I noticed though is that everyone seems to be relying on a single source, though.

677 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:28:30am

re: #649 Dante41

...true. However, I find it hard to believe that he would not make fun of a true Brooklyn accent.

Not if he were a gentleman.

678 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:29:09am

re: #662 Conservative Moonbat

Sorry for the koslink but Michael Steele Spends GOP Funds at Lesbian Themed Bondage Club.

Pics?

679 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:29:14am

re: #662 Conservative Moonbat

Sorry for the koslink but Michael Steele Spends GOP Funds at Lesbian Themed Bondage Club.

If that's true, I will LOL forever. That would be awesome.

First off, the idea of Michael Steele at a bondage club is enough to send me scrambling for the brain bleach, but a lesbian themed one as well? Instant classic. I'd actually go and endure Free Republic just to see all the heads exploding.

680 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:30:07am

re: #677 MandyManners

The worst time I ever had understanding someone who spoke "English" was on Shore Patrol with a British sailor from Liverpool!

681 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:30:21am

re: #674 subsailor68

LOL! I wish you'd written something like, "to quote the Emperor Augustus: "Festina lente"." Then you could sit back and watch their heads explode as they tried to figure out what that meant.

;-)

That was one of our class mottos. The other was the ever-popular "Semper Ubi Sub Ubi".

682 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:30:49am

re: #662 Conservative Moonbat

I hope they have proof.

683 Right Brain  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:30:52am

re: #486 oaktree

The MSM is on the side of those that they were taught to side with while in school, ie Victims.

Whoever in the world appears to be losing the MSM shows up to support, its a Pavlovian response. There is a 70 yo feminist who just did a letter to the editor of the Sydney Morning Herald supporting the rights afforded women under Islam, no that is not parody. They are parody. Fortunately, predictable.

684 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:30:54am

re: #663 Dante41

Hey, SubSailor. Good to see ya! Which part of Texas did you move to? You live out in the plains, or down near the Gulf Coast?

And yes. The "things". They set them up in converted commercial space in Houston so people can own Inner-Loop property, but not have to take part in Inner-Loop culture.

Good to see you too! We are really luck, in that we live in the Hill Country, about 65 miles west of San Antonio. Quick story:

My wife got here before I did - she took over patient and community relations at our hospital here. She and the administrator would go to lunch every day - walking to the local diner.

One night she called to say, "sweetheart, you're really going to like it here. It's the first place we've ever lived where, when somebody drives by, they honk their horn - and wave with all five fingers!"

685 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:31:01am

Try as I might I can't figure out what a Lesbian "theme" is? Perhaps a sign on the front door that says "no boyz allowed"?

686 steve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:31:10am

is est iustus Cupiditas volo

687 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:31:17am

re: #678 Decatur Deb

Well, Paris Hilton appears to go there:

[Link: www.zimbio.com...]

Hmmm... Paris Hilton, M. Steele... I think we could start some sort of rumor if we tried.

688 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:31:46am

re: #682 MandyManners

I hope they have proof.

They don't need it. Just the accusation works.

689 Right Brain  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:32:28am

re: #489 Cannadian Club Akbar

Thanks for this Canadian, yes someone in Britain, where they are under seize from Islamists, had the balls to report the facts.

690 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:32:32am

SKorean defence minister says North may have intentionally floated mine to damage naval ship

North Korea may have deliberately directed an underwater mine toward the South Korean naval ship that exploded and sank three days ago near a disputed maritime border, the defence minister told lawmakers Monday.

Defence Minister Kim Tae-young said military authorities have not ruled out North Korean involvement in the sinking of the Cheonan, which split apart within minutes after an explosion in the rear hull late Friday night.

Fifty-eight crew members were rescued from the Yellow Sea waters near Baengnyeong Island west of Seoul, but 46 others are believed trapped inside a rear segment of the ship with almost no chance of survival. Divers rapping on the stern with hammers got no response Monday, military officials said.

South Korean officials have been careful to say the exact cause of the explosion remains unknown, and that the rescue mission remains their priority.

691 webevintage  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:32:35am

re: #682 MandyManners

I hope they have proof.

Pictures would be fun, but if I'm right the proof is in the numbers:

Once on the ground, FEC filings suggest, Steele travels in style. A February RNC trip to California, for example, included a $9,099 stop at the Beverly Hills Hotel, $6,596 dropped at the nearby Four Seasons, and $1,620.71 spent [update: the amount is actually $1,946.25] at Voyeur West Hollywood, a bondage-themed nightclub featuring topless women dancers imitating lesbian sex.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

692 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:32:36am

re: #679 Lidane

If that's true, I will LOL forever. That would be awesome.

First off, the idea of Michael Steele at a bondage club is enough to send me scrambling for the brain bleach, but a lesbian themed one as well? Instant classic. I'd actually go and endure Free Republic just to see all the heads exploding.

And he spend $2000. What can you get $2000 worth of at a lesbian themed bondage club? I'm guessing hookers or blow.

693 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:32:36am

re: #687 freetoken

Well, Paris Hilton appears to go there:

[Link: www.zimbio.com...]

Hmmm... Paris Hilton, M. Steele... I think we could start some sort of rumor if we tried.

/yes it's true... Paris Hilton is a republican.

694 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:32:37am

re: #677 MandyManners

Not if he were a gentleman.

Ah, but unfortunately the Southern Gentlemen is a dying breed, at least for now. I think that within a generation it will be back. Call it adaption to the modern world.

I am just speaking for myself, but if my sweet great-grandmother ever caught wind of me not acting like the proper gentleman she raised me to be, I don't doubt that she would rise from the grave to hunt be down and give me a proper scolding. And I don't know about you, but the thought of a zombie scolding me scares the crap out of me.

695 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:33:04am

re: #688 Cannadian Club Akbar

They don't need it. Just the accusation works.

I was thinking of a scenario in which Steele sues the fuck out of them if it's not true.

696 steve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:33:34am

re: #685 DaddyG

Try as I might I can't figure out what a Lesbian "theme" is? Perhaps a sign on the front door that says "no boyz allowed"?

Being a 'Male Lesbian' I find this intriguing!

697 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:33:39am

re: #693 brookly red

That's it! Steele was there to raise money for the RNC, with Hilton's support!

698 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:33:48am

re: #685 DaddyG

Try as I might I can't figure out what a Lesbian "theme" is? ...snip

"Come to My Window".

[Link: www.google.com...]

699 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:34:30am

re: #694 Dante41
Yep. I open doors, hold doors for folks. Am trying to instill that kind of civility in my boys.

700 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:34:40am

re: #697 freetoken

That's it! Steele was there to raise money for the RNC, with Hilton's support!

/that's hot...

701 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:34:44am

re: #691 webevintage

Pictures would be fun, but if I'm right the proof is in the numbers:

Once on the ground, FEC filings suggest, Steele travels in style. A February RNC trip to California, for example, included a $9,099 stop at the Beverly Hills Hotel, $6,596 dropped at the nearby Four Seasons, and $1,620.71 spent [update: the amount is actually $1,946.25] at Voyeur West Hollywood, a bondage-themed nightclub featuring topless women dancers imitating lesbian sex.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

I'm not talking about photographs. I'm talking about signed reciepts.

702 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:34:45am

Sensible Conservative Republican Tom Campell described as "may not have the fire". Sheesh either you Tea Bag or you lack fire. Go figure. Despite a great resume-

"More than anything else, Campbell is staking his claim on his resume. He has a doctorate in economics from the University of Chicago and a law degree from Harvard.

He taught law at Stanford and was the dean of UC Berkeley's business school. He represented Silicon Valley for nine years in the U.S. House of Representatives, where he earned a reputation as a fiscal hawk, and served as California's finance director.

"My entire career has been economic issues, and that's the strength of the focus today," he told more than 100 people at a luncheon at the Elks Lodge. "We are in need of fiscal responsibility like never before in this country."

[Link: www.latimes.com...]

703 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:34:49am

re: #691 webevintage

Pictures would be fun, but if I'm right the proof is in the numbers:

Once on the ground, FEC filings suggest, Steele travels in style. A February RNC trip to California, for example, included a $9,099 stop at the Beverly Hills Hotel, $6,596 dropped at the nearby Four Seasons, and $1,620.71 spent [update: the amount is actually $1,946.25] at Voyeur West Hollywood, a bondage-themed nightclub featuring topless women dancers imitating lesbian sex.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Okay, now I will personally shake this mans hand for this. This...this is glorious.

I cannot fault a man who has exquisite taste.

704 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:34:50am

re: #689 Right Brain

Thanks for this Canadian, yes someone in Britain, where they are under seize from Islamists, had the balls to report the facts.

I know you wanted an American media report, but that is all I found.:)

705 albusteve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:35:09am

re: #680 pingjockey

The worst time I ever had understanding someone who spoke "English" was on Shore Patrol with a British sailor from Liverpool!

my Jewish homey from Philly is almost impossible to understand after some drinks and partying...somehow I pick up just enough

706 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:35:11am

re: #697 freetoken
A g string in every drawer!

707 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:35:26am

re: #694 Dante41

Ah, but unfortunately the Southern Gentlemen is a dying breed, at least for now. I think that within a generation it will be back. Call it adaption to the modern world.

I am just speaking for myself, but if my sweet great-grandmother ever caught wind of me not acting like the proper gentleman she raised me to be, I don't doubt that she would rise from the grave to hunt be down and give me a proper scolding. And I don't know about you, but the thought of a zombie scolding me scares the crap out of me.

Southern gentlemen have not gone out of style.

708 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:35:29am

re: #691 webevintage

Pictures would be fun, but if I'm right the proof is in the numbers:

Once on the ground, FEC filings suggest, Steele travels in style. A February RNC trip to California, for example, included a $9,099 stop at the Beverly Hills Hotel, $6,596 dropped at the nearby Four Seasons, and $1,620.71 spent [update: the amount is actually $1,946.25] at Voyeur West Hollywood, a bondage-themed nightclub featuring topless women dancers imitating lesbian sex.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

I don't think that's against the law is it? It's not like he had a gay prostitution ring run out of his basement, or anything.

709 avanti  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:35:46am

re: #695 MandyManners

I was thinking of a scenario in which Steele sues the fuck out of them if it's not true.

Looks like a staffer will meet the bus:

"An RNC spokesperson said the committee is looking into the matter, but said the expenditure was made by a non-committee staffer and added that the report erroneously hinted that RNC Chairman Michael Steele attended the club.

“The chairman was never at the location in question, he had no knowledge of the expenditure, nor does he find the use of committee funds at such a location at all acceptable,” the spokesperson said. “Good reporting would make that distinction crystal clear. The committee has requested that the monies be returned to the committee and that the story be corrected so that it is accurate.”

710 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:36:03am

re: #707 MandyManners

Southern gentlemen have not gone out of style.

Never will, either.

711 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:36:19am

re: #705 albusteve
Heh. Even some of his mates had trouble understanding him!

712 soap_man  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:36:26am

re: #702 Rightwingconspirator

Sensible Conservative Republican Tom Campell described as "may not have the fire". Sheesh either you Tea Bag or you lack fire. Go figure. Despite a great resume-

"More than anything else, Campbell is staking his claim on his resume. He has a doctorate in economics from the University of Chicago and a law degree from Harvard.

He taught law at Stanford and was the dean of UC Berkeley's business school. He represented Silicon Valley for nine years in the U.S. House of Representatives, where he earned a reputation as a fiscal hawk, and served as California's finance director.

"My entire career has been economic issues, and that's the strength of the focus today," he told more than 100 people at a luncheon at the Elks Lodge. "We are in need of fiscal responsibility like never before in this country."

[Link: www.latimes.com...]

/Fucking elitist.

713 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:36:34am

re: #687 freetoken

Well, Paris Hilton appears to go there:

[Link: www.zimbio.com...]

Hmmm... Paris Hilton, M. Steele... I think we could start some sort of rumor if we tried.

Yes. It appears to be a nightclub that has bondage as a theme. Such places often pay the Hilton sisters to make an appearance. If a club is hosting both Paris and Nicky, then normally pay over $100,000 for a multi-hour appearance.

714 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:36:43am

re: #708 NJDhockeyfan

I don't think that's against the law is it? It's not like he had a gay prostitution ring run out of his basement, or anything.

Zing!!

715 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:36:45am

re: #708 NJDhockeyfan

I don't think that's against the law is it? It's not like he had a gay prostitution ring run out of his basement, or anything.

Whose money was it allegedly?

716 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:36:49am

Internetz be very wonky today.

717 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:37:06am

re: #707 MandyManners

Southern gentlemen have not gone out of style.

I sure as hell hope not.

718 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:37:33am

re: #709 avanti

Looks like a staffer will meet the bus:

"An RNC spokesperson said the committee is looking into the matter, but said the expenditure was made by a non-committee staffer and added that the report erroneously hinted that RNC Chairman Michael Steele attended the club.

“The chairman was never at the location in question, he had no knowledge of the expenditure, nor does he find the use of committee funds at such a location at all acceptable,” the spokesperson said. “Good reporting would make that distinction crystal clear. The committee has requested that the monies be returned to the committee and that the story be corrected so that it is accurate.”

Like the Prog blogosphere is gonna' get it right.

719 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:37:54am

Chief Israel ‘war crimes’ investigator at Soros-financed human rights group also avid Nazi memorabilia collector

This story has actually been around for a few months, but glad to see it’s finally gaining some traction. Last fall, one of the founders of Human Rights Watch came out and accused the organization of being irrationally anti-Israel. To make matters worse, members of the organization thought nothing of fund raising in Saudi Arabia, where the organization’s criticism of Israel was no doubt a selling point.

And if this weren’t bad enough, the Times of London has an in-depth piece about the ensuing scandal when it was revealed that one of the organization’s lead investigators and vocal Israel critic is an avid collector of Nazi memorabilia:

By day, Marc Garlasco was HRW’s only military expert, the person that its Emergencies Division would send to conflict zones to investigate alleged war crimes. He wrote reports condemning the dropping of cluster bombs in the Russia-Georgia war, the alleged illegal use of white phosphorus by the Israeli army in Gaza and coalition tactics that he said “unnecessarily” put Iraqi or Afghan civilians at risk. An enthusiastic source of quotes for the media, he was incessantly on the phone to journalists.

But by night, Garlasco was “Flak88”, an obsessive contributor to internet forums on Third Reich memorabilia and an avid collector of badges and medals emblazoned with swastikas and eagles.

A lavishly illustrated $100 book he compiled and self-published is dedicated to his grandfather, who served in the Luftwaffe. On members-only sites such as Wehrmachtawards.com he was writing comments like “VERY nice Hitler signature selection”; “That is so cool! The leather SS jacket makes my blood go cold it is so COOL!”

An interest in Nazi memorabilia does not necessarily suggest Nazi sympathies — but it is hardly likely to play well in the salons where Garlasco’s employer might solicit donations.


720 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:37:56am

re: #708 NJDhockeyfan

I don't think that's against the law is it? It's not like he had a gay prostitution ring run out of his basement, or anything.

He charged it to GOP expense accounts. I can't think the socon donors are too happy with the idea. That's not the paragon of fiscal conservatism either.

721 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:38:02am

re: #701 MandyManners

I'm not talking about photographs. I'm talking about signed reciepts.


I learned that lesson early. I'm a non-drinker but on a business trip with some colleagues found out that $600 of booze had been signed to my room over a two day stay at a conference.

722 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:38:05am

re: #712 soap_man

Quite a contrast to Barbara Boxer!

723 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:39:08am

re: #713 Dark_Falcon

Yes. It appears to be a nightclub that has bondage as a theme. Such places often pay the Hilton sisters to make an appearance. If a club is hosting both Paris and Nicky, they (the owners) normally pay over $100,000 for a multi-hour appearance.

PIMF

724 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:39:22am

re: #312 Walter L. Newton

You do have a personal partisan political agenda... and it's far from undisclosed. I read your "manifesto" at the link you provided. You cloak your purpose with a lot of technobabble, but giving the material a full and honest reading, any of the lofty goals actually belays a narcissistic mentality, a savior complex who will "reduce the negative influence of incompetent yet nonetheless well-regarded pundits..."

While you praise the internet's "wholesome effect on information flow," you really belay the fact that you are not happy with the open nature of the medium and more interested in the control you can have over the information by "address(ing) certain critical issues as determined by a collective array of the most erudite and dependable bloggers in existence."

More like a collective designed to control what you and your hive consider valid or not valid information.

My opinion.

What the hell.

I have no idea where you're pulling this paranoid nonsense from, but it certainly has nothing to do with Barrett Brown's project. You've decided on the basis of no evidence whatsoever that the project is about "controlling" information -- that's utter nonsense. Why in the world would you assume something like this about a project I'm involved in?

725 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:39:51am

re: #721 DaddyG

I learned that lesson early. I'm a non-drinker but on a business trip with some colleagues found out that $600 of booze had been signed to my room over a two day stay at a conference.

Next time, take me. I'll keep it under $300.
//

726 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:40:03am

And people updinged that post?

WTF!

727 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:40:19am

re: #720 Conservative Moonbat
I don't care about the socon donors, what about the folks like me who donate to the RNC? Misuse of funds is misuse of funds. Goddamn idiots.

728 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:40:28am

re: #709 avanti

Looks like a staffer will meet the bus:

"An RNC spokesperson said the committee is looking into the matter, but said the expenditure was made by a non-committee staffer and added that the report erroneously hinted that RNC Chairman Michael Steele attended the club.


Of course Steele wasn't there...he was at the Chippendale's show down the street stuffing dollar bills into the thongs of those dancers.

729 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:40:48am

Steele denies involvement with RNC spending at kinky club

....The story definitely implies that this bondage club expense involved Steele himself. An RNC spokesman writes me to take issue with that:

“We are investigating the expenditure in question. The story willfully and erroneously suggests that the expenditure in question was one belonging to the Chairman. This was a reimbursement made to a non-committee staffer. The Chairman was never at the location in question, he had no knowledge of the expenditure, nor does he find the use of committee funds at such a location at all acceptable...The committee has requested that the monies be returned to the committee and that the story be corrected so that it is accurate.”


So that's an on-the-record denial of Steele's personal involvement. More on this later.

The 48 hour rule is officially in effect.

730 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:40:52am

re: #684 subsailor68

Good to see you too! We are really luck, in that we live in the Hill Country, about 65 miles west of San Antonio. Quick story:

My wife got here before I did - she took over patient and community relations at our hospital here. She and the administrator would go to lunch every day - walking to the local diner.

One night she called to say, "sweetheart, you're really going to like it here. It's the first place we've ever lived where, when somebody drives by, they honk their horn - and wave with all five fingers!"

Ah... the Hill Country is some of the most beautiful and interesting terrain in the state. Sometimes it really blows your mind that it used to be an inland sea all those millions of years ago.

And the people are nice all over the state...as long you stay out of East Texas.

731 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:41:12am

re: #719 NJDhockeyfan

Where do they get that that's a Soros-backed organization?

[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

732 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:41:13am

re: #703 Dante41

Okay, now I will personally shake this mans hand for this. This...this is glorious.

I cannot fault a man who has exquisite taste.

This is the club in question:

[Link: www.urbandaddy.com...]

I almost hope the story is true and that Steele was personally there. I really want to see the far right socons freak out over it. Heh.

733 albusteve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:41:38am

re: #694 Dante41

Ah, but unfortunately the Southern Gentlemen is a dying breed, at least for now. I think that within a generation it will be back. Call it adaption to the modern world.

I am just speaking for myself, but if my sweet great-grandmother ever caught wind of me not acting like the proper gentleman she raised me to be, I don't doubt that she would rise from the grave to hunt be down and give me a proper scolding. And I don't know about you, but the thought of a zombie scolding me scares the crap out of me.

fortunately I have one good buddy from Huntsville...he is an extremely bright guy even tho he speaks with a very slow drawl and an accent that is as back woods as can be....he is an authentic redneck and the most polite fellow imaginable..I have never heard him say an unkind word about or toward anyone...if he has a beef, it's shrouded with good ol boy humor...as far as I know everybody just loves him to pieces, but you need to be patient with conversation....he is hilarious but very slow to make his point....he yalks to himself and has every old southern expression you can think of....and he calls me a good ol Yankee boy

734 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:41:57am

re: #728 darthstar

Of course Steele wasn't there...he was at the Chippendale's show down the street stuffing dollar bills into the thongs of those dancers.

Oh. OK, then.

735 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:42:50am
736 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:42:57am

re: #732 Lidane

For the sake of his wife and kids, I hope the story isn't true, and that it once again really is the shenanigans of Anonymous Staffer.

737 webevintage  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:43:00am

You might be a moron if you decide to threaten a US Congressman and his family and then make a YouTube video of your threat:
[Link: tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

738 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:43:32am

re: #730 Dante41

Ah... the Hill Country is some of the most beautiful and interesting terrain in the state. Sometimes it really blows your mind that it used to be an inland sea all those millions of years ago.

...snip

That might not be in the new textbooks.

739 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:43:34am

re: #721 DaddyG

I learned that lesson early. I'm a non-drinker but on a business trip with some colleagues found out that $600 of booze had been signed to my room over a two day stay at a conference.

That's the hotel's fault. Shame on it.

740 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:44:05am

re: #729 NJDhockeyfan

Steele denies involvement with RNC spending at kinky club

...The story definitely implies that this bondage club expense involved Steele himself. An RNC spokesman writes me to take issue with that:


So that's an on-the-record denial of Steele's personal involvement. More on this later.

The 48 hour rule is officially in effect.

Okay. Temporary respect gain rapidly falling.

741 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:44:06am

re: #735 MandyManners

Can you provide any information about Soros's link to it? Sourcewatch has no links from Soros to that group.

742 steve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:44:08am

re: #726 Charles

And people updinged that post?

WTF!

Could be that some people like big words?

743 avanti  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:44:15am

re: #718 MandyManners

Like the Prog blogosphere is gonna' get it right.

What makes you think the lefties broke the story ? Many on the right would love to see Steele go. The Daily Caller broke the story, but I know nothing about it's leanings.

744 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:44:35am

re: #732 Lidane
Mass hysteria. As a sailor, yay! lesbian bondage strippers, oh my! As a contibutor to the RNC and repub candidates, WTF were they thinking? This is 2010, not 1960. Our elected pols/chairpeople can't do shit like this and not get found out.

745 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:44:56am

re: #737 webevintage

You might be a moron if you decide to threaten a US Congressman and his family and then make a YouTube video of your threat:
[Link: tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Well, at least they got that crazy. I hope he gets a prison sentence. People need to understand that making threats like that is not a game.

746 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:45:19am

re: #743 avanti

What makes you think the lefties broke the story ? Many on the right would love to see Steele go. The Daily Caller broke the story, but I know nothing about it's leanings.

I don't think you would like them...

747 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:45:46am

re: #733 albusteve

fortunately I have one good buddy from Huntsville...he is an extremely bright guy even tho he speaks with a very slow drawl and an accent that is as back woods as can be...he is an authentic redneck and the most polite fellow imaginable..I have never heard him say an unkind word about or toward anyone...if he has a beef, it's shrouded with good ol boy humor...as far as I know everybody just loves him to pieces, but you need to be patient with conversation...he is hilarious but very slow to make his point...he yalks to himself and has every old southern expression you can think of...and he calls me a good ol Yankee boy

Hi albusteve! LOL! You just reminded me of an old movie that had Clint Walker in it. I remember one of his lines after all these years:

"Just cause I talk slow don't mean I'm stupid."

;-)

748 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:46:06am

re: #744 pingjockey

Mass hysteria. As a sailor, yay! lesbian bondage strippers, oh my! As a contibutor to the RNC and repub candidates, WTF were they thinking? This is 2010, not 1960. Our elected pols/chairpeople can't do shit like this and not get found out.

As I said earlier, Two Thumbs Waaay Up if true!

749 albusteve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:46:07am

re: #730 Dante41

Ah... the Hill Country is some of the most beautiful and interesting terrain in the state. Sometimes it really blows your mind that it used to be an inland sea all those millions of years ago.

And the people are nice all over the state...as long you stay out of East Texas.

I find Texans to be very friendly people....almost as much so as New Mexicans, who are off the scale in that regard...there doesn't seem to be any pretense at all down here....people are very outgoing and always assume the best from one another

750 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:46:24am

re: #739 MandyManners

That's the hotel's fault. Shame on it.


The accountant at our company (who knew I was a "dry" Mormon) thought it was hilarious. I did too once I realized what had happened. My colleagues ponied up the $ once the gag was revelaed.

751 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:47:29am

re: #726 Charles

I think the project sounds very interesting; the technical aspects of reputation on the internet are pretty fascinating.

And yeah, I don't get why something that is clearly being constructed as a participant in the marketplace of ideas is being attacked as somehow hostile the the marketplace of ideas.

752 albusteve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:48:19am

re: #743 avanti

What makes you think the lefties broke the story ? Many on the right would love to see Steele go. The Daily Caller broke the story, but I know nothing about it's leanings.

Steele is a flop...he's done nothing but turn a blind eye to his party's bullshit...guilt by association imo

753 webevintage  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:48:30am

re: #745 Dark_Falcon

Well, at least they got that crazy. I hope he gets a prison sentence. People need to understand that making threats like that is not a game.

Hopefully more of the haters will want to have their 15 min of YouTube fame and make videos of themselves, it makes the jobs of the FBI (?) so much easier.

754 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:48:56am

re: #736 Obdicut

For the sake of his wife and kids, I hope the story isn't true, and that it once again really is the shenanigans of Anonymous Staffer.

Eh. It's a risque nightclub, not a brothel. I don't see it being all that bad. It's not like the guy was hiking the Appalachian Trail or anything.

I just think the idea of GOP money being spent there is hilarious because the far right socons would freak out even if all anyone did was buy an appetizer and a drink, then left to go elsewhere.

755 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:49:00am

re: #748 Dante41

It would add some interest to an otherwise most shallow character in politics.

756 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:49:02am

re: #738 Decatur Deb

That might not be in the new textbooks.


Those microscopic seasshell fossils were placed there by God to test the faith of the school board./

757 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:49:25am

Guy arrested for threatening to kill Eric Cantor...and it wasn't John Boehner

758 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:50:33am

re: #754 Lidane

Eh. It's a risque nightclub, not a brothel. I don't see it being all that bad. It's not like the guy was hiking the Appalachian Trail or anything.

I just think the idea of GOP money being spent there is hilarious because the far right socons would freak out even if all anyone did was buy an appetizer and a drink, then left to go elsewhere.


Yeah, they spent 2 grand on chips and Miller Lights. heeheehee

I don't care if Steele was in it or not. It's still an awesome story and I demand photographic evidence!

759 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:50:57am

re: #741 Obdicut

Okay, I found links from Soros's foundation to HRW:

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

However, Mandy, given that Herbert and Marion Sandler's foundation are the main source of funding for HRW, and Soros's foundation is just one of many that support HRW, why is Soros singled out?

Herbert and Marion Sandler are real live progressives, by the way. Like, really, not just normal liberals that other people call progressives.

760 albusteve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:51:32am

re: #747 subsailor68

Hi albusteve! LOL! You just reminded me of an old movie that had Clint Walker in it. I remember one of his lines after all these years:

"Just cause I talk slow don't mean I'm stupid."

;-)

every time I visit my pal, I am surprised again at how flat out smart he is, what keen understanding he has of world events and geopolitics etc...it's just that he does not care about making an impression like that...and he is a world class party nut

761 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:51:35am

re: #756 DaddyG

Those microscopic seasshell fossils were placed there by God to test the faith of the school board./

If I may use the words of Bill Hicks: I think you were put here to test my faith.

762 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:51:49am

re: #755 freetoken

It would add some interest to an otherwise most shallow character in politics.

As I said, my admiration of the man would grow twentyfold. I mean, taking GOP money and then spending it at a lesbian bondage strip club? That is at least seven levels of awesome right there.

763 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:51:55am

re: #758 JasonA

Yeah, they spent 2 grand on chips and Miller Lights. heeheehee

I don't care if Steele was in it or not. It's still an awesome story and I demand photographic evidence!

We get free popcorn around here.:)

764 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:52:28am

re: #759 Obdicut

Okay, I found links from Soros's foundation to HRW:

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

However, Mandy, given that Herbert and Marion Sandler's foundation are the main source of funding for HRW, and Soros's foundation is just one of many that support HRW, why is Soros singled out?

Herbert and Marion Sandler are real live progressives, by the way. Like, really, not just normal liberals that other people call progressives.

Why go after me repeatedly? Why not go after the person who posted that story? Huh?

765 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:52:30am

re: #763 Cannadian Club Akbar

We get free popcorn around here.:)

Socialists!

766 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:52:49am

re: #758 JasonA

I don't care if Steele was in it or not. It's still an awesome story and I demand photographic evidence!

The first rule of the internet -- Pics or it Didn't Happen. ;)

767 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:53:08am

re: #764 MandyManners

Why go after me repeatedly? Why not go after the person who posted that story? Huh?

A few people on here have MDS it seems.

768 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:53:11am

re: #763 Cannadian Club Akbar

We get free popcorn around here.:)

it's not free...

769 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:53:21am

re: #765 JasonA

Socialists!

Come on!! It's not gubment popcorn!!

770 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:53:26am

Heh. Some lawyers are about to hit the lotto. The wife of the owner of the LA Dodgers is suing for divorce. She wants a million dollars a month in alimony!

771 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:54:27am

Hamas security men seize money from Gaza bank

GAZA (Reuters) - Hamas security forces took $400,000 from a bank in the Gaza Strip Monday, in a direct challenge to Palestinian authorities in the West Bank who had frozen the money to comply with money laundering regulations.

Hamas, which runs the Gaza Strip, said the men were executing a court order to seize the assets of a medical organization, the Patient's Friend Association.

Seeking to apply global regulations against money laundering, the Palestine Monetary Authority (PMA) froze the association's account after its board fell under Hamas control, banking sources said.

Must be running low on explosive funds.

772 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:54:44am

re: #767 NJDhockeyfan

A few people on here have MDS it seems.

This is not the first time I've had my shit jumped for something another Lizard has posted and about which I've merely commented.

Gotta' engage my GAZE gear again.

773 badger1970  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:54:44am

re: #770 pingjockey

Heh. Some lawyers are about to hit the lotto. The wife of the owner of the LA Dodgers is suing for divorce. She wants a million dollars a month in alimony!

Do you know how many #1 starters that could buy? //

774 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:55:14am

re: #761 JasonA

Bill Hicks ding.

775 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:55:20am

re: #763 Cannadian Club Akbar

We get free popcorn around here.:)

I'm with Obdi on this:

re: #736 Obdicut

For the sake of his wife and kids, I hope the story isn't true, and that it once again really is the shenanigans of Anonymous Staffer.

But if everyone else is going to have a gleeful party at what looks like it may be Steele's non-involvement here, hell yeah - I want my free popcorn while I sit on the sidelines and watch.

776 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:55:26am

re: #770 pingjockey

Heh. Some lawyers are about to hit the lotto. The wife of the owner of the LA Dodgers is suing for divorce. She wants a million dollars a month in alimony!

Good for her.

777 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:55:29am

Stolen from ??...

The South

1) Don't order filet mignon or pasta primavera at Waffle House. It's just a diner. They serve breakfast 24 hours a day. Let them cook something they know. If you confuse them, they'll kick your ass.

2) Don't laugh at our Southern names (Merleen, Bodie, Ovine, Luther Ray, Tammy Lynn, Darla Beth, Inez, Billy Joe, Sissy, etc.). Or we will just HAVE to kick your ass.

3) Don't order a bottle of pop or a can of soda down here. Down here it's called Coke. Nobody gives a flying damn whether it's Pepsi, RC, Dr.Pepper, 7-Up or whatever-it's still a Coke. Accept it. Doing otherwise can lead to an ass kicking.

4) We know our heritage. Most of us are more literate than you(e.g.,Welty, Williams, Faulkner). We are also better educated and generally a lot nicer. Don't refer to us as a bunch of hillbillies, or we'll kick your ass.

5) We have plenty of business sense (e.g., Fred Smith of Fed Ex, Turner
Broadcasting, Coca-Cola, MTV, Netscape). Naturally, we do, sometimes, have small lapses in judgment (e.g., Carter, Edwards, Duke, Barnes,
Clinton). We don't care if you think we are dumb. We are not dumb enough to let someone move to our state in order to run for the Senate. If someone tried to do that, we would kick their ass.

6) Don't laugh at our Civil War monuments. If Lee had listened to
Longstreet and flanked Meade at Gettysburg instead of sending Pickett up the middle, you'd be paying taxes to Richmond instead of Washington. If you visit Stone Mountain and complain about the carving, we'll kick your ass.

7) We are fully aware of how high the humidity is, so shut the hell up.
Just spend your money and get the hell out of here, or we'll kick your ass.

8) Don't order wheat toast at Cracker Barrel. Everyone will instantly know that you're a Yankee. Eat your biscuits like God intended-with gravy. And don't put sugar on your grits, or we'll kick your ass.

9) Don't fake a Southern accent. This will incite a riot, and you will get
your ass kicked.

10) Don't talk about how much better things are at home because we know better. Many of us have visited Northern shitholes like Detroit, Chicago, and DC, and we have the scars to prove it. If you don't like it here, Delta is ready when you are. Move your ass on home before it gets kicked.

11) Yes, we know how to speak proper English. We talk this way because we don't want to sound like you. We don't care if you don't understand what we are saying. All other Southerners understand what we are saying, and that's all that matters. Now, go away and leave us alone, or we'll kick your ass.

12) Don't complain that the South is dirty and polluted. None of OUR lakes or rivers have caught fire recently. If you whine about OUR scenic beauty, we'll kick your ass all the way back to Boston Harbor.

13) Don't ridicule our Southern manners. We say "sir" and "ma'am". We hold doors open for others. We offer our seats to old folks because such things are expected of civilized people. Behave yourselves around our sweet little gray haired grandmothers or they'll kick some manners into your ass just like they did ours.

14) So you think we're quaint or losers because most of us live in the
countryside? That's because we have enough sense to not live in filthy,
smelly, crime-infested cesspools like New York or Baltimore. Make fun of
our fresh air, and we'll kick your ass.

15) Last, but not least, DO NOT DARE to come down here and tell us how to cook barbecue. This will get your ass shot (right after it is kicked). You're lucky we let you come down here at all. Criticize our barbeque, and you will go home in a pine box. Minus your ass.

778 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:55:37am

re: #764 MandyManners

Since you have repeatedly linked to very dubious sources in order to attack Soros, like Larouches and holocaust revisionists. However, you're quire right that I should be addressing this to NJDhockeyfan as well.

re: #767 NJDhockeyfan

A few people on here have MDS it seems.

I am sorry, you did bring it up and I should be addressing you as well.

Can you explain why Soros is being singled out, when his foundation is one of many donors, and he is not the principle donor to HRW?

Marion Sandler and her husband are the primary supporters of HRW.

779 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:55:40am

re: #773 badger1970
Yep. one or two. :)

780 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:55:59am

re: #771 NJDhockeyfan

Hamas security men seize money from Gaza bank

Must be running low on explosive funds.

...had frozen the money to comply with money laundering regulations.??? wtf does that mean?

781 simoom  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:56:34am

re: #718 MandyManners

Like the Prog blogosphere is gonna' get it right.

The Daily Caller is Tucker Carlson's & fmr Cheney advisor Neil Patel's news site. Besides that, is "Prog" the RW's new "Liberal" which I guess was the new "Commie"? I've seen it used a number of times in the last few days, seemingly as an unflattering epithet.

782 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:56:51am

re: #777 DaddyG

Small addition.
In item #2, you forgot "Jim Bob".
My first husband had a cousin named "Jim Bob".
And he looked like a "Jim Bob".

783 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:57:37am

re: #757 darthstar

Guy arrested for threatening to kill Eric Cantor...and it wasn't John Boehner

Okay...at least the guy isn't a religious nutter (from his affidavit):

"My Congressman Eric Cantor, and you and your cupcake evil wife..." "Remember Eric...our judgment time, the final Yom Kippur has been given. You are a liar, you're a Lucifer, you're a pig, a greedy fucking pig, you're an abomination, you receive my bullets in your office, remember they will be placed in your heads. You and your children are Lucifer's abominations."

"cupcake evil wife" though, is taking it a little bit too far.

784 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:57:44am

re: #726 Charles

And people updinged that post?

WTF!

I updinged it. Specifically, i updinged the part about the questionable goal to "address certain critical issues as determined by a collective array of the most erudite and dependable bloggers in existence".

If the project is worthy, it will produce worthy results. What Barrett thinks is the proper "collective array" and what I think are the proper "collective array" are two different things.

Further, a 'nonpartisan agenda' is far better relayed by describing one's own agenda. Barrett described the agenda as an attempt to counter the influence of a few named individuals...counter-influence is very rarely a non-partisan affair...

785 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:58:28am

re: #777 DaddyG

And don't put sugar on your grits, or we'll kick your ass.

People do this?

786 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:58:33am

Speaking of strip clubs, a friend of ours bought a building in a town near ours - a "dry" town. He decided to open a barbecue place, but wanted to sell beer with his barbecue.

He went to the town fathers and told him his plan. They told him in no uncertain terms that there would never be liquor of any kind in their town.

He said, "Okay, no problem. Guess instead of barbecue, I'll open a strip club, because there's no ordinance against that."

He got permission to serve beer.

787 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:58:51am

re: #778 Obdicut

Since you have repeatedly linked to very dubious sources in order to attack Soros, like Larouches and holocaust revisionists. However, you're quire right that I should be addressing this to NJDhockeyfan as well.

re: #767 NJDhockeyfan

I am sorry, you did bring it up and I should be addressing you as well.

Can you explain why Soros is being singled out, when his foundation is one of many donors, and he is not the principle donor to HRW?

Marion Sandler and her husband are the primary supporters of HRW.

No I can't, I didn't write it. Why don't you email Mark Hemingway, the author of the article. I bet he can answer all your questions about it.

788 avanti  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:59:01am

re: #759 Obdicut

Okay, I found links from Soros's foundation to HRW:

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

However, Mandy, given that Herbert and Marion Sandler's foundation are the main source of funding for HRW, and Soros's foundation is just one of many that support HRW, why is Soros singled out?

Herbert and Marion Sandler are real live progressives, by the way. Like, really, not just normal liberals that other people call progressives.

The fact that the funding is clearly posted and includes the Ford Foundation, the Carnegie Foundation and other main stream groups, it seems a silly point. Of course Fox just picked out Soros from the list.

789 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:59:12am

re: #775 reine.de.tout

But if everyone else is going to have a gleeful party at what looks like it may be Steele's non-involvement here, hell yeah - I want my free popcorn while I sit on the sidelines and watch.

You misunderstand. This isn't glee that this is a scandal. This is pure admiration for the man if he really did this. I repeat: If true, he took GOP Funds, and spent them at a Lesbian Bondage Strip Club. I would honestly and truthfully shake his hand, and I would have a smile of honor on my face while doing so.

790 albusteve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:59:29am

re: #777 DaddyG

heh...I like it, sounds about right to me....being an honorary redneck myself

791 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:00:01am

re: #778 Obdicut

Since you have repeatedly linked to very dubious sources in order to attack Soros, like Larouches and holocaust revisionists. However, you're quire right that I should be addressing this to NJDhockeyfan as well.

re: #767 NJDhockeyfan

I am sorry, you did bring it up and I should be addressing you as well.

Can you explain why Soros is being singled out, when his foundation is one of many donors, and he is not the principle donor to HRW?

Marion Sandler and her husband are the primary supporters of HRW.

Leave out Soros.
This is the meat of the story, IMO.

By day, Marc Garlasco was HRW’s only military expert, the person that its Emergencies Division would send to conflict zones to investigate alleged war crimes. He wrote reports condemning the dropping of cluster bombs in the Russia-Georgia war, the alleged illegal use of white phosphorus by the Israeli army in Gaza and coalition tactics that he said “unnecessarily” put Iraqi or Afghan civilians at risk. An enthusiastic source of quotes for the media, he was incessantly on the phone to journalists.

But by night, Garlasco was “Flak88”, an obsessive contributor to internet forums on Third Reich memorabilia and an avid collector of badges and medals emblazoned with swastikas and eagles.

A lavishly illustrated $100 book he compiled and self-published is dedicated to his grandfather, who served in the Luftwaffe. On members-only sites such as Wehrmachtawards.com he was writing comments like “VERY nice Hitler signature selection”; “That is so cool! The leather SS jacket makes my blood go cold it is so COOL!”

An interest in Nazi memorabilia does not necessarily suggest Nazi sympathies — but it is hardly likely to play well in the salons where Garlasco’s employer might solicit donations.

My favorite detail from the story is this:

The enthusiasts for Third Reich memorabilia who meet up in cyberspace make up a cosy little community. In one posting Garlasco put up a photograph of himself wearing a sweatshirt with an Iron Cross on the front, sitting next to his daughter. One of his internet buddies comments: “Love the sweatshirt… Not one I could wear here in Germany though — well I could but it would be a lot of hassle.”

792 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:00:32am

re: #788 avanti

The fact that the funding is clearly posted and includes the Ford Foundation, the Carnegie Foundation and other main stream groups, it seems a silly point. Of course Fox just picked out Soros from the list.

The San Francisco Examiner and Fox are one in the same?

793 albusteve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:00:32am

re: #780 brookly red

...had frozen the money to comply with money laundering regulations.??? wtf does that mean?

it means the money was there waiting for them

794 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:00:36am

re: #786 subsailor68

Speaking of strip clubs, a friend of ours bought a building in a town near ours - a "dry" town. He decided to open a barbecue place, but wanted to sell beer with his barbecue.

He went to the town fathers and told him his plan. They told him in no uncertain terms that there would never be liquor of any kind in their town.

He said, "Okay, no problem. Guess instead of barbecue, I'll open a strip club, because there's no ordinance against that."

He got permission to serve beer.

Awesome. Just, awesome.

795 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:00:45am

re: #785 Conservative Moonbat

People do this?

I took a French girl to an oyster fest & she put sweet & low on her grits... we did avoid the ass kicking, but I still have nightmares though.

796 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:00:56am

re: #785 Conservative Moonbat

People do this?

I was thinking the same thing. For me, a little salt & pepper, and some butter, and I'm a happy little grit-eating camper.

797 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:01:25am

re: #757 darthstar

Guy arrested for threatening to kill Eric Cantor...and it wasn't John Boehner

Holy cow. The man is a lunatic. Here's a Google search of his videos:

Google videos: Norman Leboon

798 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:01:37am

re: #770 pingjockey

Heh. Some lawyers are about to hit the lotto. The wife of the owner of the LA Dodgers is suing for divorce. She wants a million dollars a month in alimony!

McCourt lives in California now. I wonder how the Community Property law is gonna' treat the split.

799 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:01:37am

re: #789 Dante41

You misunderstand. This isn't glee that this is a scandal. This is pure admiration for the man if he really did this. I repeat: If true, he took GOP Funds, and spent them at a Lesbian Bondage Strip Club. I would honestly and truthfully shake his hand, and I would have a smile of honor on my face while doing so.

Well, and I wouldn't, funds that are donated to the GOP or the Dem Party should not be used this way.

I have no concern for how people spend their own money. But donated party funds aren't theirs to spend as they wish on this sort of stuff.

800 webevintage  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:01:41am

re: #783 darthstar

"cupcake evil wife" though, is taking it a little bit too far.

WTF?
Who knew cupcakes wives were evil?

801 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:01:53am

re: #787 NJDhockeyfan

Well, I think the reason is that Soros is singled out-- especially in the context of anything related to the holocaust-- because he is a wealthy, politically powerful, liberal Jew.

I doubt that the writer of that article is going to have any sort of good reason for why the only financier of that group he mentions happens to be Soros.

I am emailing him, however. I'll post any response I get.

There is a pattern of reportage on any group that receives funding from Soros, no matter what the proportion; they are reported as being "Soros-funded", and few other sources, if any, are named. This gives the impression of Soros having a lot more political influence than he actually does.

802 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:02:10am

My radio just said the dude that threatened Cantor is looking at 15 years.

803 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:02:31am

re: #800 webevintage

WTF?
Who knew cupcakes wives were evil?

FBV wouldn't think so.
Where is FBV when you need him to stand up for cupcake wives.

804 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:02:35am

re: #737 webevintage

You might be a moron if you decide to threaten a US Congressman and his family and then make a YouTube video of your threat:
[Link: tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

This is still not quite as moronic than that Michigan militia from yesterday's news, which put up a TouTube page listing all of their friends and supporters so the FBI, DHS and JTTF could easily find them for questioning.

Are there any good old-fashioned conspirators anymore? I hope not. Let them all go youtubing and twittering around in advance. Problem solved.

805 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:03:51am

re: #786 subsailor68

Speaking of strip clubs, a friend of ours bought a building in a town near ours - a "dry" town. He decided to open a barbecue place, but wanted to sell beer with his barbecue.

He went to the town fathers and told him his plan. They told him in no uncertain terms that there would never be liquor of any kind in their town.

He said, "Okay, no problem. Guess instead of barbecue, I'll open a strip club, because there's no ordinance against that."

He got permission to serve beer.

When I was at UK, several of us were working a project in Paintsville, KY. When local contacts asked how to reach us the said we were staying "over the pool hall". That usually didn't get the reaction we expected. Seems there were two pool halls in Paintsville.

806 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:03:53am

re: #798 MandyManners
No idea. FNC said the McCourts own 7 properties with all the uproar that will entail. I think she's pissed because her husband fired her from the President of the Dodgers job.

807 avanti  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:04:33am

re: #781 simoom

The Daily Caller is Tucker Carlson's & fmr Cheney advisor Neil Patel's news site. Besides that, is "Prog" the RW's new "Liberal" which I guess was the new "Commie"? I've seen it used a number of times in the last few days, seemingly as an unflattering epithet.

Yep: Liberal =progressive, progressive= Commie, it's the new Beck mantra. It's a bit like sane conservative=RINO.re: #792 NJDhockeyfan

The San Francisco Examiner and Fox are one in the same?

i got that from the link and quoted O'Reily's report.

808 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:04:54am

re: #737 webevintage

You might be a moron if you decide to threaten a US Congressman and his family and then make a YouTube video of your threat:
[Link: tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

YouTube - law enforcement's new BFF.

809 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:04:57am

re: #759 Obdicut


...Like, really, not just normal liberals...

must... restrain... snark... /

810 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:05:00am

re: #791 reine.de.tout

Yes, this has been discussed quite a bit at [Link: www.axishistory.com...] which is a website that is not at all a denier site, though it has a lot of deniers attempting to influence the discussion in odious, soft-propaganda ways.

It is generally held there by those I respect that, while there are many, many people who simply like the 'style' of the Nazi era without embracing the ideology at all, for someone who was parts of a human rights organization to in any way celebrate anything related to the Nazis showed him to be a very, very warped human being. I agree wholeheartedly.

811 gamark  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:05:09am

re: #795 brookly red

Okay, let's end this right now.

A little butter, a little salt, maybe a little pepper. Anything beyond that is a corruption.

812 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:05:49am

re: #800 webevintage

WTF?
Who knew cupcakes wives were evil?

Well, I suppose if the cupcakes were Devil's Food, one could postulate...

813 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:06:09am

re: #811 gamark

Okay, let's end this right now.

A little butter, a little salt, maybe a little pepper. Anything beyond that is a corruption.

Um, cheese grits. Just sayin'.

814 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:06:10am

re: #805 Decatur Deb

When I was at UK, several of us were working a project in Paintsville, KY. When local contacts asked how to reach us the said we were staying "over the pool hall". That usually didn't get the reaction we expected. Seems there were two pool halls in Paintsville.

Now that is truly, truly funny!!

815 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:06:16am

Hey, congress is on AMC...the Three Stooges.

816 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:06:18am

re: #792 NJDhockeyfan

The SF Examiner is one of the worst tabloids in the nation, and yes, it pulls hard-right.

817 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:06:27am

re: #809 DaddyG

must... restrain... snark... /

if I can do it, you can do it...

818 badger1970  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:06:28am

re: #808 reine.de.tout

YouTube - law enforcement's new BFF.

"You Tube"- a tool to make stupid people stupider.

819 webevintage  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:06:45am

re: #804 Cato the Elder

Are there any good old-fashioned conspirators anymore? I hope not. Let them all go youtubing and twittering around in advance. Problem solved.


It is all the fault of those young wippersnappers and their twittering facebooks all over those inter tubes.
Why in my day we buried our information in glass jars all over the yard...

820 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:06:55am

re: #811 gamark
I like to have my eggs over easy mixed in.

821 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:07:00am

re: #818 badger1970

"You Tube"- a tool to make stupid people stupider.

There are several XKCD strips on the subject.

822 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:08:10am

When I look at his name all I keep seeing Norman TheLoon. This guy is great. Now let's find him a nice cozy jail cell.

823 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:08:11am

re: #820 pingjockey

I like to have my eggs over easy mixed in.

Mix in poached eggs. I call it low fat breakfast soup.:)

824 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:08:14am

re: #797 Gus 802

Holy cow. The man is a lunatic. Here's a Google search of his videos:

Google videos: Norman Leboon

Yes, just looked at about thirty seconds of one(a rant about Timothy Geitner and the bank bailouts). Apparently, he's a self-identified Muslim, but being an ignoramus, he's mixing up Islamic and Christian terminology.

825 gamark  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:08:43am

re: #813 Cannadian Club Akbar

A local 'cue joint I frequent added bbq jalepeno cheese grits to the menu. I never got a satisfactory explanation of how they bbq'd the grits...

826 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:09:03am

It's warm enough in Alabama, so I'm going out to put meat on a grill over some charcoal in a Weber. Later. y'all.

827 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:09:27am

re: #825 gamark

A local 'cue joint I frequent added bbq jalepeno cheese grits to the menu. I never got a satisfactory explanation of how they bbq'd the grits...

Prolly put them in a smoker to cook them.

828 Stuart Leviton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:09:27am

Obama: Passover Wrap Up, "Next Year In Jerusalem ," Deemed "Provocative"

Shanda O.Y.Gevalt (AP White House Correspondent)

(AP) — An unidentified Israeli official has confirmed that private discussions between President Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu included an urgent request from the President that the traditional closing refrain “next year in Jerusalem” be deleted during the upcoming Passover holiday, calling the ancient passage provocative and unhelpful for the future of peace talks. Calling it “an easy fix,” Obama strongly urged the Jewish People to replace it with “next year in peace” or “next year in Tel Aviv,” leaving the exact wording to final status talks between Israelis and Palestinians. Netanyahu is said to have balked at the request, indicating that the refrain dates back well before the UN Partition of 1947 and well before the U.S. Declaration of Independence, for that matter. The Prime Minister reportedly attempted to diffuse the situation by offering to remove it from the conclusion of the lesser-known Yom Kippur service, and suggesting the phrase was defunct anyway since Jews have controlled all of Jerusalem since 1967. However, a visibly irritated President Obama flatly rejected the compromise, adding it was another indication the “stiff-necked” Prime Minister did not appear “serious about peace.”

Shortly after the meeting, both sides issued a terse statement saying that no agreement had been reached on the matter.
//Fortunately this is a satire

829 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:09:41am

re: #810 Obdicut

Yes, this has been discussed quite a bit at [Link: www.axishistory.com...] which is a website that is not at all a denier site, though it has a lot of deniers attempting to influence the discussion in odious, soft-propaganda ways.

It is generally held there by those I respect that, while there are many, many people who simply like the 'style' of the Nazi era without embracing the ideology at all, for someone who was parts of a human rights organization to in any way celebrate anything related to the Nazis showed him to be a very, very warped human being. I agree wholeheartedly.

Website not found, but no matter, really, I take your word for it (that's a compliment).

As re: Soros - he has a right to support anything he wants to. I personally don't believe he has the sort of great influence that others seem to think he has; and again he has a right to support whatever causes he thinks are important, just as I or anyone else does.

830 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:10:42am

re: #828 Stuart Leviton


//Fortunately this is a satire

Damn. I was hoping Shanda O.Y.Gevalt (AP White House Correspondent) was real! :P

831 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:11:04am

re: #816 Obdicut

The SF Examiner is one of the worst tabloids in the nation

,

So you mean Fox & SF Examiner are the same company?

and yes, it pulls hard-right.

Judging by all the links posted here to websites like DKos, Media Matters, HuffPo, etc, I though at least a newspaper would be acceptable. I guess I was wrong.

832 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:11:22am

re: #824 darthstar

Yes, just looked at about thirty seconds of one(a rant about Timothy Geitner and the bank bailouts). Apparently, he's a self-identified Muslim, but being an ignoramus, he's mixing up Islamic and Christian terminology.

Sounds like it. Trying to play the role of the prophet and prognosticator. He even mentions floods and rains.

So, here's his Youtube channel:

shiamuslimcantbestop

And here are his subscribers and friends.

I recommend HazMat gear before entering.

833 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:11:56am

re: #784 Aceofwhat?

...counter-influence is very rarely a non-partisan affair...

Being a "counter-influence" is partisan by its very nature. Self-declared neutrality either lacks self awareness or the courage of conviction.

834 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:12:18am

Time for work....later gators!

835 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:12:29am

re: #832 Gus 802

Sounds like it. Trying to play the role of the prophet and prognosticator. He even mentions floods and rains.

So, here's his Youtube channel:

shiamuslimcantbestop

And here are his subscribers and friends.

I recommend HazMat gear before entering.

Biohazard Level 4

836 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:12:31am

re: #829 reine.de.tout

Whoops, here it is:

[Link: www.axishistory.com...]

Anyone who's a WWII history buff, that place is an excellent resource for a history of the Axis nations during WWII. It has great administrators and great historical discussions in the forums.

There are evil-ass deniers in the forums cloaking their agenda, but they're exposed and argued with constantly.

As re: Soros - he has a right to support anything he wants to. I personally don't believe he has the sort of great influence that others seem to think he has; and again he has a right to support whatever causes he thinks are important, just as I or anyone else does.

I agree. I don't like that people who are wealthy have such inordinate power, but I don't hold it against Soros in particular, and he is by no means as influential as he is made out to be.

837 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:12:37am

re: #832 Gus 802

One of his friends! Alex Jones or TheAlexJonesChannel.

Now that's a surprise. /

838 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:13:21am

re: #835 Varek Raith

Biohazard Level 4

Drink 3 cups of urine before entering to stabilize the internal organs.

//

839 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:13:37am

re: #837 Gus 802

One of his friends! Alex Jones or TheAlexJonesChannel.

Now that's a surprise. /

Bilderbergs!! Owls!! RFID chips in my pepsi!!!

840 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:13:40am

re: #832 Gus 802

Thanks, but I've seen enough of this fucktard already. Hopefully, he'll not get too much media attention...the last thing we need is more of his 'friends' following suit. Some of them might actually be functioning adults, in which case there could be a real danger.

841 avanti  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:13:40am

re: #831 NJDhockeyfan

Judging by all the links posted here to websites like DKos, Media Matters, HuffPo, etc, I though at least a newspaper would be acceptable. I guess I was wrong.

Of course, stories from most all sides of the spectrum are open to discussion. I think we were just pointing out which side this came from, and questioning the spin we often get from both sides.

842 Spider Mensch  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:14:04am

re: #829 reine.de.tout

Website not found, but no matter, really, I take your word for it (that's a compliment).

As re: Soros - he has a right to support anything he wants to. I personally don't believe he has the sort of great influence that others seem to think he has; and again he has a right to support whatever causes he thinks are important, just as I or anyone else does.


now, now...don't say that too loudly...all little conservative children need a boogeyman..." If you kids don't behave and get to bed, George Soros is going to come out from under the bed and make daddy fill out census forms until his arms fall off! Now get in bed, Damn It!!!

843 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:14:33am

re: #831 NJDhockeyfan

Judging by all the links posted here to websites like DKos, Media Matters, HuffPo, etc, I though at least a newspaper would be acceptable. I guess I was wrong.

Well, you do understand that some newspapers, the tabloids, are less-reputable than other ones? If you look back through the editorials written by the gentleman who wrote that article, you'll see that he is, indeed, very partisan in his writing.

I'm not debating that the Soros foundation gave HRW funds. I'm pointing out that, yet again, Soros is singled out as a donor even though he wasn't the main donor and the group received financing from very mainstream sources.

844 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:14:38am

Okay, I just came up for air after delving into WRH. If y'all are interested, the conspiracy nuts are calling these militia raids a "government false-flag".

Dear God, the stupid, it burns.

845 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:15:00am

re: #832 Gus 802

Sounds like it. Trying to play the role of the prophet and prognosticator. He even mentions floods and rains.

This is the only prophet I listen to (the truth is NSFW!):

846 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:15:03am

re: #801 Obdicut

Well, I think the reason is that Soros is singled out-- especially in the context of anything related to the holocaust-- because he is a wealthy, politically powerful, liberal Jew.

I doubt that the writer of that article is going to have any sort of good reason for why the only financier of that group he mentions happens to be Soros.

I am emailing him, however. I'll post any response I get.

There is a pattern of reportage on any group that receives funding from Soros, no matter what the proportion; they are reported as being "Soros-funded", and few other sources, if any, are named. This gives the impression of Soros having a lot more political influence than he actually does.

His Jewishness has less to do with it than the fact that he is seen by many (including me) as far-left. He's also made enough noise to be more well-known than mostly of the donors. So bringing up Soros is a way to tie matters to the far-left.

847 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:15:09am

re: #840 darthstar

Thanks, but I've seen enough of this fucktard already. Hopefully, he'll not get too much media attention...the last thing we need is more of his 'friends' following suit. Some of them might actually be functioning adults, in which case there could be a real danger.

I hear you. I figured his "friends" would be good for a follow up if you know what I mean.

848 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:16:23am

re: #845 JasonA

This is the only prophet I listen to (the truth is NSFW!):

[Video]

I see. A follower of Saint Crackula.

/

849 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:16:28am

re: #825 gamark

A local 'cue joint I frequent added bbq jalepeno cheese grits to the menu. I never got a satisfactory explanation of how they bbq'd the grits...

Liquid smoke...yuck!

850 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:16:58am

re: #833 DaddyG

Being a "counter-influence" is partisan by its very nature. Self-declared neutrality either lacks self awareness or the courage of conviction.

well...yes, especially when one's list of examples they wish to counter sort of line up in partisan terms...

851 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:17:20am

re: #849 ausador

Liquid smoke...yuck!

See my 827.

852 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:17:44am

re: #806 pingjockey

No idea. FNC said the McCourts own 7 properties with all the uproar that will entail. I think she's pissed because her husband fired her from the President of the Dodgers job.

Was she drawing a salary?

853 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:17:48am

re: #848 Gus 802

I see. A follower of Saint Crackula.

/

Hey, If you're gonna have a prophet you.may as well go all in.

854 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:18:19am

re: #846 Dark_Falcon

I think that his Jewishness has a lot to do with it for a large number of people who attack him, as can be seen from the LaRouche and holocaust revisionist links that Mandy has posted that attack him.

I do think that for a lot of people it is 'only' his position as a liberal, though he is not in the least bit far-left. He's about where Warren Buffett is in terms of politics. I do agree he's used as some sort of figurehead for the left. I am saying that doing so is completely inaccurate and that, sadly, many times the attacks on him by antisemites are picked up by and run with those who's problem with him is ideological.

855 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:18:52am

re: #781 simoom

The Daily Caller is Tucker Carlson's & fmr Cheney advisor Neil Patel's news site. Besides that, is "Prog" the RW's new "Liberal" which I guess was the new "Commie"? I've seen it used a number of times in the last few days, seemingly as an unflattering epithet.

I found this on Salon a few days ago:
[Link: www.salon.com...]

Progressive: Not just a euphemism for liberal
Unless the similar but not synonymous ideologies work together, taxpayers end up getting bilked


As a progressive, I'm often asked if there is a real difference between progressivism and liberalism, or if progressivism is merely a nicer-sounding term for the less popular L-word.

It's a fair question, considering that Democratic politicians regularly substitute "progressive" for "liberal" in news releases and speeches. Predictably, Republicans call their opponents' linguistic shift a craven branding maneuver, and frankly, they're right: Most Democrats make no distinction between the two words.

However, that doesn't mean the ideologies are synonymous. In fact, if the last decade of economic policy proves anything, it is that even as the word "progressive" is now ubiquitous, a perverted form of liberalism has almost completely snuffed out genuine progressivism.

More at the link

856 prairiefire  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:20:02am

A credible and real threat to Mr. Cantor:[Link: tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

857 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:20:27am

re: #851 Cannadian Club Akbar

See my 827.

Just sayin, if they wont tell him how they make it then it is probably because they are ashamed of it...

858 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:20:28am

re: #852 MandyManners
I would think so, but really have no idea. It's just the whole idea of a million dollars a month that got me. IIRC, one of Johnny Carsons exwives was asking for like 600k a month at one time. I remember when Alex Rodriguez went to the Texas Rangers, he was making 30k an at bat. Insane.

859 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:20:51am

re: #850 Aceofwhat?

well...yes, especially when one's list of examples they wish to counter sort of line up in partisan terms...

When I hear counter-influence I immediately think of Rush Limbaugh's protestations that he "is the balance" to the MSM. That has the same ring of truth as "harmless lovable fuzzball and "just an entertainer". In other words NOT.

860 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:21:17am

re: #857 ausador

Just sayin, if they wont tell him how they make it then it is probably because they are ashamed of it...

Got ya. And for the record, I have cooked pizza on a grill.:)

861 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:21:26am

Has anyone waded into the fever swamps of RedState and FreeRepublic to see their reaction to these militia raids. From what I saw over the weekend the nutbags haven't really addressed the issue at all. They might be waiting to see what direction the RNC talking points go?

862 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:21:42am

re: #846 Dark_Falcon

Oh, and check out the axishistory site-- it really is a great resource. The forums are a very wonderful place for any obscure question about WWII-- though use the search feature before you ask any questions, of course.

863 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:22:22am

re: #861 drcordell
Nope, my hazmat suit is at the cleaners. :)

864 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:22:41am

re: #854 Obdicut

I think that his Jewishness has a lot to do with it for a large number of people who attack him, as can be seen from the LaRouche and holocaust revisionist links that Mandy has posted that attack him.

I do think that for a lot of people it is 'only' his position as a liberal, though he is not in the least bit far-left. He's about where Warren Buffett is in terms of politics. I do agree he's used as some sort of figurehead for the left. I am saying that doing so is completely inaccurate and that, sadly, many times the attacks on him by antisemites are picked up by and run with those who's problem with him is ideological.

Fair point. I'm still not a fan of his and I maintain for the present that he is far-left, but I will try to keep an open mind.

865 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:23:15am

re: #861 drcordell
The only talking points the RNC should have is that they're glad these nutbars got caught.

866 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:23:16am

re: #862 Obdicut

Oh, and check out the axishistory site-- it really is a great resource. The forums are a very wonderful place for any obscure question about WWII-- though use the search feature before you ask any questions, of course.

Thank you for that. I'm a WWII history buff, so it helps.

867 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:23:17am

re: #860 Cannadian Club Akbar

Got ya. And for the record, I have cooked pizza on a grill.:)

I thought it would be cool to cook rice pilaf on the grill - for that great outdoors smoky flavor.

Took me twelve hours to line the little kernels up so they'd stop falling through.

868 webevintage  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:23:54am

re: #861 drcordell

Has anyone waded into the fever swamps of RedState and FreeRepublic to see their reaction to these militia raids. From what I saw over the weekend the nutbags haven't really addressed the issue at all. They might be waiting to see what direction the RNC talking points go?

Nothing on Crazy Michell's site...

869 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:24:08am

re: #856 prairiefire

A credible and real threat to Mr. Cantor:[Link: tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Looks like he was an RoP lunatic.

870 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:24:30am

re: #861 drcordell

Yes.... and it is exactly what is expected. The freepers are in full on revolution mode, decrying agent provocateurs, etc.

871 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:24:50am

re: #867 subsailor68

I thought it would be cool to cook rice pilaf on the grill - for that great outdoors smoky flavor.

Took me twelve hours to line the little kernels up so they'd stop falling through.

Acupuncture needles make great skewers. /

872 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:25:06am

re: #867 subsailor68

Ever done beer can chicken?

873 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:25:07am

re: #864 Dark_Falcon

I think he is far-left to you, but that you think of some matters as ideological that are, to me, pragmatic ones-- taxation, for example-- in a way that makes some pragmatists appear farther left than they really are, and I think that Buffett and Soros are both economic pragmatists.

Anyway, you're a reasonable man, and that's all I ask of anyone.

874 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:25:35am

re: #860 Cannadian Club Akbar

Got ya. And for the record, I have cooked pizza on a grill.:)

hmmm, don't see anything in the rule book about that...

875 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:25:40am

re: #870 freetoken

Yes... and it is exactly what is expected. The freepers are in full on revolution mode, decrying agent provocateurs, etc.

ARE YOU THREATENING ME!1!!!
/Cornholio
;)

876 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:25:47am

re: #869 Killgore Trout

WTF is "RoP?"

877 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:26:05am

re: #865 pingjockey

The only talking points the RNC should have is that they're glad these nutbars got caught.

I wish that was going to be the case, unfortunately I don't think it will be. I'd predict they will carefully toe the line between distancing themselves from the militiamen, but also chastising the "big gubmint" for their handling of the case.

878 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:26:17am

re: #876 darthstar

Religion of Peace (aka Islam)

879 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:26:28am

re: #876 darthstar

WTF is "RoP?"

Religion of Peace.

880 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:26:34am

Morton Halperin wrote the text of HRW's Goldstone Report and is a senior advisor at the Open Society Intstiute.

881 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:26:43am

re: #878 Killgore Trout

Religion of Peace (aka Islam)

Yeah they're nothing like us peaceful Christians...

882 Stanghazi  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:26:52am

re: #872 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ever done beer can chicken?

So easy and so good. The chicken gets amazingly browned. You can throw garlic and what not into the beer too.

883 webevintage  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:01am

re: #869 Killgore Trout

Looks like he was an RoP lunatic.

and has issues with "cupcake wives"....

884 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:05am

re: #881 drcordell

Yeah they're nothing like us peaceful Christians...

I agree.

885 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:24am

re: #870 freetoken

Yes... and it is exactly what is expected. The freepers are in full on revolution mode, decrying agent provocateurs, etc.

That's really what they're aiming for here? False-flag operation is the best they can do. Damn.

886 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:25am

Note to self. Stick with Sam Harris, Pat Condell, Christopher Hitchens, et al.

887 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:32am

re: #878 Killgore Trout

Religion of Peace (aka Islam)

Thanks...and yes, I saw that he claims to be muslim, though his rhetoric is all over the religious map. I think he's just a disturbed individual, and probably shouldn't be seriously associated with any faith.

888 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:40am

re: #872 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ever done beer can chicken?

Actually, I have, and it's terrific. My father-in-law used to make a melted butter/garlic baste that was perfect. Of course, you could hear your arteries slamming shut over the sound of the crackling fire, but sure tasted great.

889 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:41am

re: #869 Killgore Trout

Looks like he was an RoP lunatic.

Total n00b question, but what is RoP? I've seen that mentioned a few times and have no idea what it is.

890 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:43am

re: #856 prairiefire

I'm going to laugh like a maniac-- and feel like a goof-- if it turns out that the bullet through his window really was this guy firing from like a mile away. Not only would the most improbable scenario have been true, but it would rank up there as the least effective attack on a public official ever.

I do hope people notice that the same people who are concerned about attacks on Democratic congresspeople are posting this story as well.

891 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:54am

re: #882 Stanley Sea

So easy and so good. The chicken gets amazingly browned. You can throw garlic and what not into the beer too.

Get a food syringe. Lemon and garlic and yummy. Shoot into the meat.

892 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:28:27am

re: #877 drcordell
Gawd, I hope not. It would appear the FBI and local LE did a great job. No casulties. Just one nutjob loose and he'll get caught quick I hope. No Ruby Ridge/Waco type tragedies.

893 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:29:35am

re: #885 drcordell

That's really what they're aiming for here? False-flag operation is the best they can do. Damn.

Yep. Same with the conspiracy nuts. Even after they have been preachin' the coming revolution, when some militiamen are arrested for trying to set it off, suddenly it is all a False-Flag.

894 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:29:36am

Yeah. Lotsa' Christians strap bombs to themselves and go splodey-dope on crowded trains. And, fly loaded airplanes into buildings. And, fling rockets into civilian neighborhoods. And, blow up discos. And, rape women who expose their flesh.

895 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:29:39am

re: #872 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ever done beer can chicken?

The proper name is "Beer-butt Chicken"...and it's quite good. I make it frequently on the BBQ in the summer and in the oven in the winter months. I like to cover it with powdered chocolate, cayenne pepper, etc. before roasting...

896 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:29:48am

re: #892 pingjockey

Yes, no showboating this time with the lives of citizens and LEOs. That's a good thing.

897 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:29:50am

re: #478 MandyManners

A hijab is okay but a cross is not?

Any ban on crosses is, of course, ridiculous, and needs to be challenged in court.

But for those who get their panties in a bunch about hijabs, I've always wondered how they can tell the difference between the Muslim woman's headscarf and the Haredi model.

And what, pray, makes the former dangerous to Western society whilst the latter is merely an expression of Jewish piety?

SNIPE!

898 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:29:55am

re: #872 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ever done beer can chicken?

It works with cat too

899 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:30:10am

Just flipped through one of the arrestee's youtube clips, one where he's wearing his pajamas and he seems to be a bit of a lunatic. He kept calling himself the messiah. remember my motto: "crazy people do crazy shit"

900 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:30:33am

re: #898 Conservative Moonbat

It works with cat too

I've never tried sticking a cat up a chicken's butt.

901 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:30:45am

re: #898 Conservative Moonbat

It works with cat too

Just harder to get the can in.
/

902 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:30:50am

re: #899 RogueOne

Just flipped through one of the arrestee's youtube clips, one where he's wearing his pajamas and he seems to be a bit of a lunatic. He kept calling himself the messiah. remember my motto: "crazy people do crazy shit"

What? Link?

903 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:30:52am

re: #891 Cannadian Club Akbar

Get a food syringe. Lemon and garlic and yummy. Shoot into the meat.

Good heavens! I hope you were responding to the chicken thread and not the torture thread.

904 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:30:56am

re: #899 RogueOne

I think if you consider yourself the Messiah, Muslims probably don't like you very much.

905 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:31:09am

re: #899 RogueOne

Just flipped through one of the arrestee's youtube clips, one where he's wearing his pajamas and he seems to be a bit of a lunatic. He kept calling himself the messiah. remember my motto: "crazy people do crazy shit"

you mean he's a blogger??

906 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:31:14am

RoP Religion of Peace or RoPma, Religion of Peace my ass. As in protesting loud and long about being peaceful, then blowing up their co-religionists or anybody not sufficiently islamic enough for their particular brand of islam.

907 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:31:26am

re: #900 darthstar

I've never tried sticking a cat up a chicken's butt.

Vice versa?

908 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:31:44am

re: #903 DaddyG

Good heavens! I hope you were responding to the chicken thread and not the torture thread.

Well, if both work....

909 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:31:51am

re: #907 MandyManners

Vice versa?

Only in bed.

910 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:32:16am

re: #899 RogueOne

Just flipped through one of the arrestee's youtube clips, one where he's wearing his pajamas and he seems to be a bit of a lunatic. He kept calling himself the messiah. remember my motto: "crazy people do crazy shit"


I'm just happy his arrest means he'll stop going on YouTube shirtless...

911 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:32:34am

re: #902 MandyManners

What? Link?



he's irritable with ABC news for some reason.

912 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:32:42am

re: #896 Obdicut
The Feds gave the loonies a ton of grist for the mills of insanity with the way those particular events were handled. It sucks.

913 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:32:54am

re: #892 pingjockey

Gawd, I hope not. It would appear the FBI and local LE did a great job. No casulties. Just one nutjob loose and he'll get caught quick I hope. No Ruby Ridge/Waco type tragedies.

Not only that, but at least one other militia refused to get drawn into anything with these guys:

Michael Lackomar, a spokesman for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia, said one of his team leaders got a frantic phone call Saturday evening from members of Hutaree, who said their property in southwest Michigan was being raided by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

"They said they were under attack by the ATF and wanted a place to hide," Lackomar said. "My team leader said, 'no thanks.'"

The team leader was cooperating with the FBI, Lackomar said. He said SMVM wasn't affiliated with Hutaree, which states on its Web site to be "prepared to defend all those who belong to Christ and save those who aren't."

"We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ. All Christians must know this and prepare, just as Christ commanded," the group's Web site said. "Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment."

Lackomar said none of the raids focused on his group, which is affiliated with the Michigan Militia, a larger militia umbrella group. Lackomar said about eight to 10 members of Hutaree trained with SMVM twice in the past three years. SMVM holds monthly training sessions focusing on survival training and shooting practice, Lackomar said.

914 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:33:07am

Just in case this was missed...

On the "Man charged with threatening to kill Cantor and his family"

re: #832 Gus 802

Sounds like it. Trying to play the role of the prophet and prognosticator. He even mentions floods and rains.

So, here's his Youtube channel:

shiamuslimcantbestop

And here are his subscribers and friends.

I recommend HazMat gear before entering.

915 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:33:12am

re: #909 darthstar

Only in bed.

Need to wear thick clothes.

916 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:33:13am

re: #895 darthstar

The proper name is "Beer-butt Chicken"...and it's quite good. I make it frequently on the BBQ in the summer and in the oven in the winter months. I like to cover it with powdered chocolate, cayenne pepper, etc. before roasting...

Hey! What's this "etc."? The chocolate and cayenne sound great! What are the etc.? C'mon, spill it! (Does it give the chicken kind of a mole flavor?)

917 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:33:49am

re: #872 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ever done beer can chicken?

Cookbook Volume 1 has beer can chicken directions!
Can be purchased here

918 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:33:56am

re: #894 MandyManners

Yeah. Lotsa' Christians strap bombs to themselves and go splodey-dope on crowded trains. And, fly loaded airplanes into buildings. And, fling rockets into civilian neighborhoods. And, blow up discos. And, rape women who expose their flesh.

Did you not just read the indictment against the Huatree nuts? There are plenty of people committing, or planning to commit, acts of violence in the name of Christ.

919 gamark  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:34:01am

re: #882 Stanley Sea

So easy and so good. The chicken gets amazingly browned. You can throw garlic and what not into the beer too.

Oh dear Bacchus! Please tell me you meant "beer can". I don't think I've ever seen the beer actually make it all the way to the grill before.

920 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:34:18am

re: #911 RogueOne

[Video]


he's irritable with ABC news for some reason.

How many shots of ouzo had he had?

921 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:34:47am

re: #920 MandyManners

How many shots of ouzo had he had?

he looks like he badly needs a nap.

922 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:34:58am

re: #911 RogueOne

[Video]


he's irritable with ABC news for some reason.

He's fucking nuts.

923 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:35:02am

re: #913 Lidane
Well, that's something. These people, the militias make me very uneasy.

924 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:35:28am

re: #498 Walter L. Newton

Considering that over 30 people were killed, for some reason this is not funny... is it?

Actually, I find it pretty funny. That said, I should add that is not the fact that innocent people died, but the play on words.

And I strongly resent people trying to tell me what I should think is funny or not.

I'm funny that way.

925 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:35:33am

re: #917 reine.de.tout

Cookbook Volume 1 has beer can chicken directions!
Can be purchased here

Now that I have a job, I'll buy the new one.:)

926 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:35:39am

re: #894 MandyManners

And, rape women who expose their flesh.


Umm... yes.

They're also very fond of using machetes and chopping up people, including children.

So Mandy, how does it feel to belong to a violent, extremist religion?

927 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:35:39am

re: #918 drcordell

Did you not just read the indictment against the Huatree nuts? There are plenty of people committing, or planning to commit, acts of violence in the name of Christ.

your mathematical failings are legion.

928 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:35:56am

re: #921 RogueOne

he looks like he badly needs a nap.

And, some Thorazine.

Seriously, this is one of the idiots arrested in Michigan?

929 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:37:09am

re: #927 Aceofwhat?

your mathematical failings are legion.

So we should count the number of people killed by adherents of each religion, and then compare the final numbers to decide once and for all which religion is violence, and which others are true religions of "peace"?

930 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:37:13am

re: #724 Charles

What the hell.

I have no idea where you're pulling this paranoid nonsense from, but it certainly has nothing to do with Barrett Brown's project. You've decided on the basis of no evidence whatsoever that the project is about "controlling" information -- that's utter nonsense. Why in the world would you assume something like this about a project I'm involved in?

I made an opinionated comment based on the text of his "manifesto."

931 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:37:43am

re: #926 freetoken

Umm... yes.

They're also very fond of using machetes and chopping up people, including children.

So Mandy, how does it feel to belong to a violent, extremist religion?

right. they're practically the same in terms of their global tally of atrocities.

good grief.

932 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:37:55am

re: #926 freetoken

Umm... yes.

They're also very fond of using machetes and chopping up people, including children.

So Mandy, how does it feel to belong to a violent, extremist religion?

Those aren't REAL Christians. Didn't you see the color of their skin?

933 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:38:20am

re: #911 RogueOne
Hmm... ;)

934 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:38:25am

re: #931 Aceofwhat?

right. they're practically the same in terms of their global tally of atrocities.

good grief.

Amish Head Choppers. Good name for a band.
/

935 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:39:30am

re: #931 Aceofwhat?

right. they're practically the same in terms of their global tally of atrocities.

good grief.

So how many people must be hacked to death with a machete before a religion loses it's "religion of peace" designation? Is there a set number? Do the crusades count? Or is there a statute of limitations on when violence in the name of your savior doesn't count anymore?

936 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:39:48am

re: #934 Cannadian Club Akbar

Amish Head Choppers. Good name for a band.
/

YODER CHOP!

937 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:40:01am

re: #926 freetoken

Umm... yes.

They're also very fond of using machetes and chopping up people, including children.

So Mandy, how does it feel to belong to a violent, extremist religion?

From your link:

The group adheres to a syncretistic[4] blend of Christianity, Mysticism,[5] traditional religion,[6] and witchcraft,[7

I'm unaware that Mandy adheres to a religion that is part witchcraft & mysticism.

I know I'm not

938 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:40:04am

Alright, Lizards. My fuel gauge has finally hit "E". I am going to have to crash bfor a good ten hours. Y'all stay scaly, and I'll catch ya on the flip side.

939 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:40:15am

Can ya help a Lizard out?
Been trying to find a link to a "Piglatin Thesarus"!
HOW can we overthrow the Gov... if we can't
comunicate in code???
The Admin 's minions will ferret us out postlay quicknay!!
Anyone??
///
Good Morning...by the way;-))

940 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:40:37am

re: #936 MandyManners

YODER CHOP!

With a side of gravy!!

941 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:40:41am

re: #938 Dante41

Alright, Lizards. My fuel gauge has finally hit "E". I am going to have to crash bfor a good ten hours. Y'all stay scaly, and I'll catch ya on the flip side.

Sweet dreams!

942 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:40:59am

re: #935 drcordell

I can kind of imagine Jews in the middle of the 30 Year's War ruefully calling Christianity the religion of peace.

943 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:41:14am

re: #929 drcordell

So we should count the number of people killed by adherents of each religion, and then compare the final numbers to decide once and for all which religion is violence, and which others are true religions of "peace"?

typically, no. however, it would take a monumental intellectual failure not to look across the globe and say that, with respect to religion, humanity has a collection of relatively small problems and one giant elephant of a problem.

944 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:41:26am

re: #939 reloadingisnotahobby

Good morning? What, are ya gonna sleep all day?
/

945 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:41:50am

re: #916 subsailor68

Hey! What's this "etc."? The chocolate and cayenne sound great! What are the etc.? C'mon, spill it! (Does it give the chicken kind of a mole flavor?)


Okay, first I rub the little fucker down with olive oil and cover generously with sea salt, then mix powdered chocolate, cayenne, ground pepper and salt together, and sprinkle generously over the bird. I drink about half of the beer before mounting the chicken on top of the can, as that's plenty of liquid for an hour or so of cooking time. I also like to slice a number of cloves of garlic into slivers and slip those under the skin in various places.

Here's one I made about a year ago...the wire steaming rack from a rice cooker keeps it from sitting in the fat that renders off during cooking.

946 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:41:54am

Count Me OUT!
'Anti-Government' Conservatives May Be Ignoring Census Forms As Protest

Please and thank you. You guys are so awesome to sabotage your own representation. *sniffle*

947 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:42:13am

re: #939 reloadingisnotahobby

Can ya help a Lizard out?
Been trying to find a link to a "Piglatin Thesarus"!
HOW can we overthrow the Gov... if we can't
comunicate in code???
The Admin 's minions will ferret us out postlay quicknay!!
Anyone??
///
Good Morning...by the way;-))

Sure reloading!

rytay erehay

948 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:42:29am

re: #944 Cannadian Club Akbar

Been at since 5am...Not sure of the time zonie thingy!

949 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:42:51am

re: #943 Aceofwhat?

typically, no. however, it would take a monumental intellectual failure not to look across the globe and say that, with respect to religion, humanity has a collection of relatively small problems and one giant elephant of a problem.

Because the people of Iraq and Afghanistan see our occupation purely through the lens of international foreign policy and see no religious aspect to the conflict whatsoever? I'm sure the 100,000+ Iraqi civilians that have died since our occupation began see Christianity as a very peaceful religion.

950 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:42:58am

re: #935 drcordell

So how many people must be hacked to death with a machete before a religion loses it's "religion of peace" designation? Is there a set number? Do the crusades count? Or is there a statute of limitations on when violence in the name of your savior doesn't count anymore?

you're right. i believe exactly the same thing as the crusaders did.

do you ever think about saying this stuff out loud to yourself before you type it, or is that just too big an effort?

951 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:43:08am

re: #945 darthstar

What can? A beer can?

952 theheat  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:43:15am

re: #894 MandyManners

No, but The Lord's Resistance Army seem to be fond of machetes.

953 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:43:37am

re: #945 darthstar

Okay, first I rub the little fucker down with olive oil and cover generously with sea salt, then mix powdered chocolate, cayenne, ground pepper and salt together, and sprinkle generously over the bird. I drink about half of the beer before mounting the chicken on top of the can, as that's plenty of liquid for an hour or so of cooking time. I also like to slice a number of cloves of garlic into slivers and slip those under the skin in various places.

Here's one I made about a year ago...the wire steaming rack from a rice cooker keeps it from sitting in the fat that renders off during cooking.

Wow! Sounds absolutely terrific! Thanks very much, I plan to try this one out real soon.

954 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:43:41am

re: #937 reine.de.tout

It is very hypocritical for Mandy to keep trying to universalize the extremism of certain Islamic sects to all Moslems, if she is unwilling to do the same for various deviant Christian sects.

And yes, frankly, a great deal of what gets labeled "Christian" is picked up from various other (pagan, pantheistic, and mystical) belief systems, e.g. Christmas and Easter.

955 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:44:00am

re: #930 Walter L. Newton

I made an opinionated comment based on the text of his "manifesto."

I have no opinion about the Barrett Brown project and won't have one until I see some actual product, as opposed to the prior announcement of same.

Completely without prejudice, however, I will say that BB is in bad need of an experienced editor, based on what I've seen on this thread. Especially if he wants to challenge the likes of Friedman, Krauthammer et al., who may be boobs, but either know how to avoid glaring solecisms on their own, or have staff to do it for them.

And I happen to need a gig.

956 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:44:03am

re: #951 Obdicut

What can? A beer can?

That's why it is called "beer can chicken."

957 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:44:33am

re: #956 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ah, sorry, came in late. It sounds nifty.

958 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:44:50am

re: #952 theheat

No, but The Lord's Resistance Army seem to be fond of machetes.

and witchcraft:

The Lord's Resistance Army (also Lord's Resistance Movement or Lakwena Part Two) is a sectarian Christian militant group based in northern Uganda.

The group was formed in 1987 and is engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government in what is now one of Africa's longest-running conflicts. It is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the "spokesperson" of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the Holy Spirit, which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations.[3]

The group adheres to a syncretistic[4] blend of Christianity, Mysticism,[5] traditional religion,[6] and witchcraft,[7]
. . .
The LRA is currently proscribed as a terrorist organization by the United States.[14][15]

959 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:45:10am

re: #950 Aceofwhat?

you're right. i believe exactly the same thing as the crusaders did.

do you ever think about saying this stuff out loud to yourself before you type it, or is that just too big an effort?

I never said you condoned the crusades. I did say that they killed millions of people in the name of Christ. You can't see the point I'm trying to get at here? That every major monotheistic religion should have no business calling itself "a religion of peace." Throughout history, time and time again, God is at the center of just about every bloody conflict.

960 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:45:11am

re: #949 drcordell

Because the people of Iraq and Afghanistan see our occupation purely through the lens of international foreign policy and see no religious aspect to the conflict whatsoever? I'm sure the 100,000+ Iraqi civilians that have died since our occupation began see Christianity as a very peaceful religion.

yes, those deaths were absolutely raving Christians running around shooting people. There were no Muslims running around shooting people. Oh, and Saddam was a bunny rabbit who didn't kill people either. It's all the Christians' fault.

961 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:45:32am

re: #947 subsailor68
Most excellent!!
I'll get Pinkie translating our diabolical plan for world domination
as soon as he figures out how to use the site!!
...Best regards...* The Brain*!

962 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:46:02am

re: #955 Cato the Elder

Did you get that email from me to that link for "German translator needed?"

963 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:46:15am

re: #949 drcordell

Because the people of Iraq and Afghanistan see our occupation purely through the lens of international foreign policy and see no religious aspect to the conflict whatsoever? I'm sure the 100,000+ Iraqi civilians that have died since our occupation began see Christianity as a very peaceful religion.

I'm confident that the people of Afghanistan aren't confused about how the Taliban stacks up to the generic American way of life...

964 RogueOne  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:46:24am

re: #928 MandyManners

And, some Thorazine.

Seriously, this is one of the idiots arrested in Michigan?

No, that was the crazy bastard they arrested for threatening Cantor

965 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:46:38am

re: #935 drcordell

So how many people must be hacked to death with a machete before a religion loses it's "religion of peace" designation? Is there a set number? Do the crusades count? Or is there a statute of limitations on when violence in the name of your savior doesn't count anymore?

The answer my friend
Is blowin' in the wind,
The answer is blowin' in the wind...

It's incredible how the ante in terms of barbarism and human suffering has been upped since the mid-sixties. It's really getting ugly out there, and I'm afraid it's not going to get better soon....

966 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:46:45am

re: #955 Cato the Elder

I have no opinion about the Barrett Brown project and won't have one until I see some actual product, as opposed to the prior announcement of same.

Completely without prejudice, however, I will say that BB is in bad need of an experienced editor, based on what I've seen on this thread. Especially if he wants to challenge the likes of Friedman, Krauthammer et al., who may be boobs, but either know how to avoid glaring solecisms on their own, or have staff to do it for them.

And I happen to need a gig.

And he only charges a few denarii a day... :)

967 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:46:52am

re: #946 JasonA

Count Me OUT!
'Anti-Government' Conservatives May Be Ignoring Census Forms As Protest

Yeah, that's a bright idea. Sitting out the census, only to not be counted when districts are re-drawn. I'm sure they'll also complain about that, too.

Granted, most districts are gerrymandered to all hell, but still. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

968 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:47:27am

re: #954 freetoken

It is very hypocritical for Mandy to keep trying to universalize the extremism of certain Islamic sects to all Moslems, if she is unwilling to do the same for various deviant Christian sects.

And yes, frankly, a great deal of what gets labeled "Christian" is picked up from various other (pagan, pantheistic, and mystical) belief systems, e.g. Christmas and Easter.

Christmas and Easter, of course, being holidays generally used for sermons preaching hatred toward all mankind and urging the killing of others . . .
/ / / /

969 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:47:55am

re: #959 drcordell

I never said you condoned the crusades. I did say that they killed millions of people in the name of Christ. You can't see the point I'm trying to get at here? That every major monotheistic religion should have no business calling itself "a religion of peace." Throughout history, time and time again, God is at the center of just about every bloody conflict.

If the statute of limitations hasn't run out on the crusades yet, they must still be active among Christianity, right? I was trying to demonstrate how ridiculous your statement was WRT the "statute of limitations". Your reaction makes me feel like i succeeded.

970 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:48:20am

re: #967 Lidane

Yeah, that's a bright idea. Sitting out the census, only to not be counted when districts are re-drawn. I'm sure they'll also complain about that, too.

Granted, most districts are gerrymandered to all hell, but still. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Wingnut - "You rigged our district!111"
Gov - "Sorry, we didn't realize you existed..."

971 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:49:25am

re: #966 oaktree

And he only charges a few denarii a day screed rant opinion piece... :)

FTFY.

972 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:49:29am

re: #960 Aceofwhat?

yes, those deaths were absolutely raving Christians running around shooting people. There were no Muslims running around shooting people. Oh, and Saddam was a bunny rabbit who didn't kill people either. It's all the Christians' fault.

Again, you're missing the context of the entire discussion here. To you, a Christian American, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq has nothing to do with Christianity. But to the person living in that nation, when they watch TV and see George Bush talking about "God blessing" our troops when they are in harms way, what do you think they think? That he's talking about Mohammed? No, they rightfully realize he is talking about Jesus Christ. Protecting Americans as they engage in battle with Muslims.

973 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:49:38am

re: #961 reloadingisnotahobby

Most excellent!!
I'll get Pinkie translating our diabolical plan for world domination
as soon as he figures out how to use the site!!
...Best regards...* The Brain*!

LOL! aveHay inkyPay allcay emay

AP Breaking News: "The Brain and his dastardly gang were foiled in their attempt at world domination today when two third graders from P.S. 123 in the Bronx broke the gang's secret code."

974 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:49:42am

re: #968 reine.de.tout

Well, his point is a very valid one: Christianity has taken in a lot of various pagan traditions unto itself. Even the continued belief in actual demonic possession and exorcism is to me, indistinguishable from witchcraft. I know it's not a major part of Catholic theology, but it is in there.

Furthermore, there are a lot of other more mystical sects that engage in things like laying on of hands, snake-handling, and other things that are more directly obviously 'witchcrafty'. So the fact that it's Christianity blended with some other tradition doesn't make it non-Christian.

975 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:50:13am

re: #935 drcordell

So how many people must be hacked to death with a machete before a religion loses it's "religion of peace" designation? Is there a set number? Do the crusades count? Or is there a statute of limitations on when violence in the name of your savior doesn't count anymore?

We've been down this road plenty of times. (Hint: Atheism doens't do so well in the numbers game either.)

To be completely intellecuaually honest you need to compare modern Islam with modern Christianity using modern Atheism as a control group.

I will save you the time and jump to the conclusion: Human beings have this nasty tendency to justify murder using whatever rationalization is handy.

976 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:50:40am

re: #969 Aceofwhat?

If the statute of limitations hasn't run out on the crusades yet, they must still be active among Christianity, right? I was trying to demonstrate how ridiculous your statement was WRT the "statute of limitations". Your reaction makes me feel like i succeeded.

I have no idea what you're trying to prove with that statement? Yes the Crusades were launched in the name of Christianity. Yes I think that legacy of violence should be mentioned in the context of slandering Islam as a "violent" religion.

977 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:50:47am

Whatever happened to the five pages of highly
intrusive Census questions we were told about by Glen Beck???
//

978 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:50:49am

re: #954 freetoken

It is very hypocritical for Mandy to keep trying to universalize the extremism of certain Islamic sects to all Moslems, if she is unwilling to do the same for various deviant Christian sects.

And yes, frankly, a great deal of what gets labeled "Christian" is picked up from various other (pagan, pantheistic, and mystical) belief systems, e.g. Christmas and Easter.

a civilized discussion about roots and calling a mix of witchcraft and Christianity "Christian" are two wholly different things. adding witchcraft to Christianity makes it something else entirely.

979 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:51:54am

re: #912 pingjockey

The Feds gave the loonies a ton of grist for the mills of insanity with the way those particular events were handled. It sucks.

How else should they have handled it? Called them from Washington and politely asked them to turn themselves in?

When you have a bunch of self-proclaimed holy warriors who are armed to teeth, spread across several states, and planning violence against the police you do not give them warning. You do what was done here, you mobilize a lot of people, swoop in at night and with overwhelming force and surprise them all simultaneously. It would seem that they were very successful, no one was shot, there were no armed standoffs, no "Ruby Ridge" scenarios. They caught eight of the nine people they had warrants for flatfooted and unable to offer resistance.

I would say that all in all it went extremely well and was done professionally.

What is it that you suggest they should have done differently?

980 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:52:11am

re: #978 Aceofwhat?

Please see my 974. Even the relatively staid Catholic church still insists that witchcrafty things are quite real.

981 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:52:18am

re: #973 subsailor68

Drat!!
Foiled again!
LOL
If at first ya don't.....ah...ah...I'll get back to you..........

982 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:52:20am

re: #972 drcordell

Again, you're missing the context of the entire discussion here. To you, a Christian American, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq has nothing to do with Christianity. But to the person living in that nation, when they watch TV and see George Bush talking about "God blessing" our troops when they are in harms way, what do you think they think? That he's talking about Mohammed? No, they rightfully realize he is talking about Jesus Christ. Protecting Americans as they engage in battle with Muslims.

Again, you fail to understand how utterly different it is to interact with Americans in Afghanistan and interact with the Taliban in Afghanistan.

983 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:52:48am

re: #952 theheat

No, but The Lord's Resistance Army seem to be fond of machetes.

The anti-Ugandan government rebel group is led by self-declared prophet Joseph Kony.

It claims its insurgency aims to replace the Ugandan government with a democracy based on the Ten Commandments.


Yeah, real Christian.

984 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:53:04am

re: #978 Aceofwhat?

a civilized discussion about roots and calling a mix of witchcraft and Christianity "Christian" are two wholly different things. adding witchcraft to Christianity makes it something else entirely.

Just as I am sure you would be defending the religion of Islam from being slandered after a Sufist committed acts of violence?

985 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:53:10am

re: #974 Obdicut

Well, his point is a very valid one: Christianity has taken in a lot of various pagan traditions unto itself. Even the continued belief in actual demonic possession and exorcism is to me, indistinguishable from witchcraft. I know it's not a major part of Catholic theology, but it is in there.

Furthermore, there are a lot of other more mystical sects that engage in things like laying on of hands, snake-handling, and other things that are more directly obviously 'witchcrafty'. So the fact that it's Christianity blended with some other tradition doesn't make it non-Christian.

Now this is a discussion that's difficult for me.
The mystical sects you are talking about - many do not recognize my flavor of Christianity (Catholocism) as even being CHRISTIAN. I, of course, return the favor to them.

986 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:53:22am

re: #979 ausador

They could have arrested David Koresh outside of the compound.

987 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:53:29am

re: #964 RogueOne

No, that was the crazy bastard they arrested for threatening Cantor

So very hard to keep the nuts sorted these days.

988 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:54:13am

re: #983 MandyManners

Yeah, real Christian.

Just as you would label an Islamic extremist group with their own self-appointed spiritual leader to be completely separate from the religion of Islam...

989 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:54:24am

re: #976 drcordell

I have no idea what you're trying to prove with that statement? Yes the Crusades were launched in the name of Christianity. Yes I think that legacy of violence should be mentioned in the context of slandering Islam as a "violent" religion.

That is an unsound line of thinking. It is far more accurate to judge a religion primarily based on what it is doing now than to give equal weight to what it did 500 years ago. I can't believe i have to say that out loud.

990 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:54:32am

re: #986 Obdicut

They could have arrested David Koresh outside of the compound.

If the mailman hadn't told him that the feds were in town to arrest him they would have...sigh. :(

991 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:55:18am

re: #985 reine.de.tout

Okay. That is also the position of Sunni and Shi'ite towards each other, in the main, except among the more liberal incarnations of both. The more liberal incarnations, likewise, see Wahhabism and the like as not true Islam, either.

992 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:55:23am

I'm not getting jack-crap accomplished today. Bye!

993 pingjockey  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:55:34am

re: #979 ausador
I was talking about Ruby Ridge and Waco. The feds had the compounds surrounded and no one was going in or out, just wait the idiots out. Nottalking about the nutbars in Michigan, LE did a great job!

994 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:56:02am

re: #989 Aceofwhat?

That is an unsound line of thinking. It is far more accurate to judge a religion primarily based on what it is doing now than to give equal weight to what it did 500 years ago. I can't believe i have to say that out loud.


You're completely right. Why even bother discussing anything that happened more than 5 years ago? Let bygones be bygones!

995 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:56:38am

re: #974 Obdicut

Well, his point is a very valid one: Christianity has taken in a lot of various pagan traditions unto itself. Even the continued belief in actual demonic possession and exorcism is to me, indistinguishable from witchcraft. I know it's not a major part of Catholic theology, but it is in there.

Furthermore, there are a lot of other more mystical sects that engage in things like laying on of hands, snake-handling, and other things that are more directly obviously 'witchcrafty'. So the fact that it's Christianity blended with some other tradition doesn't make it non-Christian.

Jesus believed in actual demonic possession. He made a distinction between himself and witchcraft. You're not required to be able to distinguish it - you're not Christian! But just because you can't distinguish it doesn't mean that He didn't make a very clear distinction.

996 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:58:13am

re: #989 Aceofwhat?

That is an unsound line of thinking. It is far more accurate to judge a religion primarily based on what it is doing now than to give equal weight to what it did 500 years ago. I can't believe i have to say that out loud.

So I'll just judge Christianity based on the Huatree nuts? Or maybe the guy who shot George Tiller to death in the name of Jesus? Or maybe in the name of the Mormon polygamists who commit their sexual abuses in the name of Jesus?

997 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:58:35am

re: #994 drcordell

You're completely right. Why even bother discussing anything that happened more than 5 years ago? Let bygones be bygones!

We should totally wipe France off of the map. Do you know how many countries they've invaded over the past few centuries?

see how smart that sounds?

998 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:58:37am

re: #951 Obdicut

What can? A beer can?

Yep...hence "Beer-butt Chicken"

999 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:59:51am

re: #997 Aceofwhat?

We should totally wipe France off of the map. Do you know how many countries they've invaded over the past few centuries?

see how smart that sounds?

Do you see how stupid it sounds to label ANY monotheistic organized religion as "peaceful"?

1000 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:59:59am

re: #989 Aceofwhat?

Well, there's an anthropological problem.

Adherents of a religion claim that the religion now is the religion of old-- a Catholic now is the inheritor of a true tradition of faith. To anyone not of this religion, they can see huge and manifest differences in every way-- from the actual way the church operates, the doctrine, the practice of it, etc.-- between the old church and the new church. And yet the adherents of a religion ascribe these differences to human frailty and mis-perception becoming improved over time. They claim there is still a thread of the being of the church running through that whole history.

To someone outside the church, attempting to claim the full history of the church a valid while rejecting the differences in the way the church used to be causes these kinds of inconsistencies. Europe was in near-constant war over religion for hundreds and hundreds of years, and the reason that abated was not the influence of the religions, but the influence of humanism and the enlightenment.

1001 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:01:08am

re: #962 Walter L. Newton

Did you get that email from me to that link for "German translator needed?"

Yes, thank you. Response still pending. Or maybe they went with someone local.

1002 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:01:53am

re: #996 drcordell

So I'll just judge Christianity based on the Huatree nuts? Or maybe the guy who shot George Tiller to death in the name of Jesus? Or maybe in the name of the Mormon polygamists who commit their sexual abuses in the name of Jesus?

Sure. And if you had any capacity for analysis, you'd weigh it against the behavior of billions of Christians worldwide. Or you'd ask yourself if you were safer sporting an "I hate Jesus" tattoo and an "I hate the Prophet Mohammed" tattoo, one on each arm, and walking through Texas, Iran, Saudi Arabia, or north Pakistan.

I don't mind pointing out the warts on Christianity's face. I mind your utter inability to understand what the word "scope" means.

1003 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:01:59am

re: #995 Aceofwhat?

I can also disagree with him, and say that such a distinction is false. This religion from Uganda is definitely a synthesis of a couple traditions, but the spectrum of what's considered 'Christian' is so broad there is no reason to exclude this group form it.

1004 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:03:37am

re: #999 drcordell

Do you see how stupid it sounds to label ANY monotheistic organized religion as "peaceful"?

Generally speaking, Islam needs a reformation right now in a manner more urgent and thorough than any other religion, by far.

How's that? Better?

1005 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:04:20am

re: #1003 Obdicut

I can also disagree with him, and say that such a distinction is false. This religion from Uganda is definitely a synthesis of a couple traditions, but the spectrum of what's considered 'Christian' is so broad there is no reason to exclude this group form it.

You mean disagree with Jesus?

(no snark intended - you're allowed to disagree with Jesus! I just want to make sure i understood:)

1006 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:04:20am

re: #1004 Aceofwhat?

I absolutely and completely agree with that statement.

1007 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:05:19am

re: #991 Obdicut

Okay. That is also the position of Sunni and Shi'ite towards each other, in the main, except among the more liberal incarnations of both. The more liberal incarnations, likewise, see Wahhabism and the like as not true Islam, either.

OK.
I'm now trying to figure out how this is pertinent to this discussion.

Look - I have a cousin who is Muslim, and I know full well that NOT ALL MUSLIMS are murderous thugs.

But the ones who are sure seem to have the upper hand in their dealings with the world, the others stay mighty quiet, for their own protection, perhaps, but mighty quiet all the same.

I see Christians here calling out others who call themselves Christian who like to use machetes, etc., and somehow that's hypocritical? I myself have stated my very strong opinions that the Catholic Church does NOT handle the pedophile cases in the proper way. Mandy says that violent Christians are not operating in the proper Christian way. And gets called hypocritical? I get tired of it. I sure wish there were more Muslim voices calling out those violent Muslims.

1008 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:05:46am

re: #1000 Obdicut

Well, there's an anthropological problem.

Adherents of a religion claim that the religion now is the religion of old-- a Catholic now is the inheritor of a true tradition of faith. To anyone not of this religion, they can see huge and manifest differences in every way-- from the actual way the church operates, the doctrine, the practice of it, etc.-- between the old church and the new church. And yet the adherents of a religion ascribe these differences to human frailty and mis-perception becoming improved over time. They claim there is still a thread of the being of the church running through that whole history.

To someone outside the church, attempting to claim the full history of the church a valid while rejecting the differences in the way the church used to be causes these kinds of inconsistencies. Europe was in near-constant war over religion for hundreds and hundreds of years, and the reason that abated was not the influence of the religions, but the influence of humanism and the enlightenment.

DrCordell:

Please note a fine example of "informed disagreement" on this topic. Study hard.

1009 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:06:06am

re: #932 drcordell

Listen, you shit-stirrer, Mandy maybe many things but she is not racist. Fuck you for the insinuation.

1010 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:06:35am

re: #1005 Aceofwhat?

Yes. I don't think he made any sort of good distinction between his magical acts that were 'good' and the bad magical acts of others that would create a distinction between good honest godly magic and witchcraft.

I can't really think of any statement he made on witches or magic, actually. Do you happen to know chapter and verse?

1011 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:07:26am

It is going to be a little while until I post again bc of the holidays.

I want to check in and wish everyone here the best.

I also want to briefly talk about the significance of terror attacks on the eve of Pesach. There was, as I am sure everyone here knows, a double suicide bombing in Russia that killed or wounded hundreds of innocent people.
I am sure that everyone is aware of the militia cell in Michigan, who for notions of Christian apocalypse, were planning on murdering police officers and then attacking their funerals - in order to kill more police - and start a war on the US itself.

Pesach is about freedom. It is about freedom in every simple and every deep sense of the word.

Freedom does not mean "do whatever you want." Freedom is the freedom to choose to do what is right and to know that there does exist a moral compass that we all must obey. Freedom means being able to resist the depredations of those who would lie to you or coerce you away from doing what is right.

The four sons, a parable discussed at seder, are very much a parable for four stages of moral development.

The lowest level of morality is to reject it morality outright and claim that freedom only means to do whatever one wants, with no regard for others.

This is the evil son. He asks, "What does this mean to you?" In other words, the responsibility that comes with freedom and the consequences of one's actions are denied by him. We tell him what it means to us. We sharply tell him that is evil and would not be worthy of redemption.

This is the level of the terrorist. To completely reject the point of having freedom in the first place. All others are not people at all to be cared for, but objects to be defined as less than human if they do not blindly follow the immorality of the terrorist code. This is not unique to Islamists. Neo-Nazis and Christofascists are the same way.

Part of freedom is knowing that you must always cherish it and fight to preserve it. The struggle to do so is internal as well as external. It is all too easy to get comfortable with giving up a little freedom, with claiming that the way things are is just the way things are, and that one has no responsibility to act. This was the slave mentality of Mitzriam (Egypt). The word Mitzraim needs one more comment. It literally means the narrow place. It is a spiritual, intellectual and moral state of denial and seeking ignorance so as to avoid facing the world and oneself.

The wise son asks that the rules and the meanings of the seder are better explained so that he may better serve, and fulfill his duty. We tell him the rules of dessert. The message is that one must use one's freedom to make the most of all opportunities to do what is right - right now. The seder, like life, has an end. Your chance to act is in the here and now.

There are thousands of groups out there who would take your freedom. There are millions of people who falsely think that freedom is only something abstracted on the level of the wicked son, that it comes with no price tag and no responsibility. There are millions more, who see the price of freedom and would rather have a little slavery. Then there are the Islamists and the Militias. They remind us what the cost of slavery is.

1012 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:08:04am

re: #1004 Aceofwhat?

Generally speaking, Islam needs a reformation right now in a manner more urgent and thorough than any other religion, by far.

How's that? Better?

Yeah, marginally I suppose. To me debating which religion is more peaceful relatively is a moot point.

1013 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:08:55am

re: #1006 Obdicut

I absolutely and completely agree with that statement.

Like I said, i'm not trying to say there aren't Christian nuts. There are, and they're not welcome in my house. I'll love them and pray for them, because i'm commanded to, but they're more my enemy than a rational Muslim.

What I object to is DrCordell's inability to compare the current state of world religions with any sort of accuracy. It's the understatement of the problems facing Islam, rather than any perceived slight to Christianity, that heats me up a little.

I don't worry much about slights to Christianity. God doesn't need me to defend Him. He'll be just fine...

1014 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:08:56am

re: #978 Aceofwhat?

a civilized discussion about roots and calling a mix of witchcraft and Christianity "Christian" are two wholly different things. adding witchcraft to Christianity makes it something else entirely.

True that.

It's not as if they're into partaking of the blood and flesh (albeit in symbolic form) of their God.

1015 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:10:25am

re: #1000 Obdicut

Well, there's an anthropological problem.

Adherents of a religion claim that the religion now is the religion of old-- a Catholic now is the inheritor of a true tradition of faith. To anyone not of this religion, they can see huge and manifest differences in every way-- from the actual way the church operates, the doctrine, the practice of it, etc.-- between the old church and the new church. And yet the adherents of a religion ascribe these differences to human frailty and mis-perception becoming improved over time. They claim there is still a thread of the being of the church running through that whole history.

To someone outside the church, attempting to claim the full history of the church a valid while rejecting the differences in the way the church used to be causes these kinds of inconsistencies. Europe was in near-constant war over religion for hundreds and hundreds of years, and the reason that abated was not the influence of the religions, but the influence of humanism and the enlightenment.

You forgot the Deist movement, but I updinged you anyway.

1016 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:10:27am

re: #994 drcordell

You're completely right. Why even bother discussing anything that happened more than 5 years ago? Let bygones be bygones!

Radical Islam is still in the Dark Ages, relatively speaking.
Give'em a couple of hundred years and I'm sure they'll reform.
Timing is everything.

1017 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:10:36am

re: #1011 LudwigVanQuixote

Well spoken, Ludwig. Enjoy Passover and stay safe.

1018 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:11:11am

re: #1017 Dark_Falcon

Well spoken, Ludwig. Enjoy Passover and stay safe.

Thank you and you too.

1019 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:11:32am

re: #997 Aceofwhat?

We should totally wipe France off of the map. Do you know how many countries they've invaded over the past few centuries?

see how smart that sounds?

Let me know a few days before you do this?

1020 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:12:05am

re: #1013 Aceofwhat?

Like I said, i'm not trying to say there aren't Christian nuts. There are, and they're not welcome in my house. I'll love them and pray for them, because i'm commanded to, but they're more my enemy than a rational Muslim.

What I object to is DrCordell's inability to compare the current state of world religions with any sort of accuracy. It's the understatement of the problems facing Islam, rather than any perceived slight to Christianity, that heats me up a little.

I don't worry much about slights to Christianity. God doesn't need me to defend Him. He'll be just fine...

absolutely.

1021 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:12:38am

re: #1013 Aceofwhat?

Like I said, i'm not trying to say there aren't Christian nuts. There are, and they're not welcome in my house. I'll love them and pray for them, because i'm commanded to, but they're more my enemy than a rational Muslim.

What I object to is DrCordell's inability to compare the current state of world religions with any sort of accuracy. It's the understatement of the problems facing Islam, rather than any perceived slight to Christianity, that heats me up a little.

I don't worry much about slights to Christianity. God doesn't need me to defend Him. He'll be just fine...

Any sort of accuracy? I see nothing but violent rhetoric spewing from the mouths of religious nutjobs worshipping Jesus, Mohammed and everyone else in between.

1022 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:14:04am

re: #1010 Obdicut

Yes. I don't think he made any sort of good distinction between his magical acts that were 'good' and the bad magical acts of others that would create a distinction between good honest godly magic and witchcraft.

I can't really think of any statement he made on witches or magic, actually. Do you happen to know chapter and verse?

He is probably referring to Jesus removing demons from two men and putting them into a herd of swine. Matthew 8:28-34.

At least that is the only time I recall when Jesus cast out demons off the top of my head...

1023 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:14:14am

re: #1011 LudwigVanQuixote

Chag Sameach.
Don't eat too much matzah brie.

1024 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:15:27am

Christianity's record is indisputably spotted. But standing in eternal reproof of that record, crying hypocrisy and betrayal, is Christianity itself, quintessentially embodied in the example of Jesus. In the case of Islam, the charge of hypocrisy hardly applies--certainly not on the matter of religious violence. To put the issue at its starkest, there is simply no equivalent in the Koran to the New Testament's admonishment to "turn the other cheek"; conversely, there is no equivalent in the New Testament to the Koranic injunction to "kill the disbelievers wherever you find them".
-- William Bennett, _Why We Fight: Moral Clarity and the War on Terrorism_, 2002

1025 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:15:41am

re: #1007 reine.de.tout

I'm not accusing you of being a hypocrite. I do think that Mandy has a tendency to attempt to talk about Islam as a monolithic entity in a way that it is not, and that's the point I was trying to make; there are Christian groups engaging in the types of activities that Mandy talked about. The Rwandan genocide was perpetrated by Christians and the Catholic church in the area was at the best rather limp in their resistance, at worst fully complicit. A very few brave Catholic clergy leaders provided refuge, but many church societies were complicit, and many priests actually helped to spur along the genocide.

Radical Islam is the largest religious problem on the face of the globe today. Of that I have no doubt. Whether it will be in fifty years, in a hundred, I have no clue. Religion is capable of very, very rapid change, and especially with so much of the Christianity in the developing world being tied to militant and revolutionary ideas, I wouldn't want to bet against Christian radicals being the next source of terrorism.

1026 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:17:05am

re: #1024 The Sanity Inspector

Christianity's record is indisputably spotted. But standing in eternal reproof of that record, crying hypocrisy and betrayal, is Christianity itself, quintessentially embodied in the example of Jesus. In the case of Islam, the charge of hypocrisy hardly applies--certainly not on the matter of religious violence. To put the issue at its starkest, there is simply no equivalent in the Koran to the New Testament's admonishment to "turn the other cheek"; conversely, there is no equivalent in the New Testament to the Koranic injunction to "kill the disbelievers wherever you find them".
-- William Bennett, _Why We Fight: Moral Clarity and the War on Terrorism_, 2002

And Christian nations have shown many great examples of "turning the other cheek" throughout history...

1027 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:17:22am

re: #1022 ausador

Yeah, I remember that bit, I just don't remember Jesus actually saying, "It's cool when I do this, but make sure to fuck up any witch who does so." I don't recall Jesus talking about miraculous works from others at all.

1028 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:17:25am

re: #1014 ryannon

True that.

It's not as if they're into partaking of the blood and flesh (albeit in symbolic form) of their God.

Sorry that I brought that up, Reine.

Personally, it doesn't bother me a bit, but I guess it's an uncomfortable idea for some people.

1029 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:20:01am

re: #1010 Obdicut

Yes. I don't think he made any sort of good distinction between his magical acts that were 'good' and the bad magical acts of others that would create a distinction between good honest godly magic and witchcraft.

I can't really think of any statement he made on witches or magic, actually. Do you happen to know chapter and verse?

Great question. First, it's important to note that there is much in the Old Testament that warns against it, for example, Deuteronomy 18:14 (NIV) "The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the Lord your God has not permitted you to do so."

Jesus only further bolstered that position. He was adamant that only through God's name should we ask for supernatural favors. That sort of rules out any other method.

A more focused example is Acts 13:6-12. Essentially, Paul calls out a practitioner and as an example of his accuracy, God temporarily blinded the practitioner through Paul.

The point is that witchcraft is the pursuit of supernatural favor through a means other than God, or even through God for the purpose of creating a self-serving display of power.

Does that help?

1030 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:21:26am

re: #1012 drcordell

Yeah, marginally I suppose. To me debating which religion is more peaceful relatively is a moot point.

Not when so many people are dying in the name of one particular religion. It's not about saying that mine is better - that'll be proven one way or another when i die!

It's about not tolerating the excesses of Islamic fundamentalism. It's about calling a spade a spade, and learning how to count spades.

1031 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:22:18am

re: #1004 Aceofwhat?

Generally speaking, Islam needs a reformation right now in a manner more urgent and thorough than any other religion, by far.

How's that? Better?

The problem is that "Radical Islam" can all be traced back to one man, Sayyid Qutb and his "martyrdom" at the hands of the Egyptian government. This mess didn't really start until 1964, hence it is a "new" and vibrant religion, something that has always caused strife throughout history.

Eventually it will burn itself out, they all do, but in the meantime the victims of the violence it is causing cannot find much if any solace in that knowledge.

1032 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:24:07am

re: #1019 ryannon

Let me know a few days before you do this?

yeah, i'll need help rescuing the wine. good Bordeaux ought not go to waste/

1033 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:25:05am

re: #1027 Obdicut

Yeah, I remember that bit, I just don't remember Jesus actually saying, "It's cool when I do this, but make sure to fuck up any witch who does so." I don't recall Jesus talking about miraculous works from others at all.

He was pretty specific about the only way to ask for a miracle, as opposed to outlining all of the ways in which we ought not, although Paul was more specific in other letters.

1034 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:25:27am

re: #1025 Obdicut

I'm not accusing you of being a hypocrite. I do think that Mandy has a tendency to attempt to talk about Islam as a monolithic entity in a way that it is not, and that's the point I was trying to make; there are Christian groups engaging in the types of activities that Mandy talked about. The Rwandan genocide was perpetrated by Christians and the Catholic church in the area was at the best rather limp in their resistance, at worst fully complicit. A very few brave Catholic clergy leaders provided refuge, but many church societies were complicit, and many priests actually helped to spur along the genocide.

Radical Islam is the largest religious problem on the face of the globe today. Of that I have no doubt. Whether it will be in fifty years, in a hundred, I have no clue. Religion is capable of very, very rapid change, and especially with so much of the Christianity in the developing world being tied to militant and revolutionary ideas, I wouldn't want to bet against Christian radicals being the next source of terrorism.

Much of Europe has already given up on moderate Islam. How much longer will it be until America grows weary of begging for them to mobilize en masse and to renounce the radicals and bring their religion fully into the 21st century?

1035 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:26:43am

re: #1029 Aceofwhat?

Yes, that helps. I know all the OT stuff on witchcraft (though likewise it's rather confused), but I didn't have the impression that Jesus himself said much about it.

Thanks for the Acts passage. That's a real OT style showdown, in a way. However, it's a Jewish false prophet, not a Christian witch, so it doesn't really address a Christian tradition that embraces witchcraft. Assumedly, the witches of that tradition claim to be acting under God's name and asking him for favors, in the end.

That's the point I'm making-- a 'false prophet' is only discernible by a 'true prophet'. A hard-line Sunni will say that a hard-line Shi'ite is not a Muslim, but obviously, anthropologically or in common-sense, they are.

1036 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:28:27am

re: #1026 drcordell

And Christian nations have shown many great examples of "turning the other cheek" throughout history...

we can do this scientifically. post two cartoons on a website, one mocking Jesus and the other mocking the Prophet Mohammed. let me know what the comparative reactions are like.

didn't someone make a movie called 'the last temptation of Christ'? funny how they don't need round-the-clock security like they would have if they made a movie of the Prophet in a similar light...

1037 drcordell  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:29:11am

re: #1030 Aceofwhat?

Not when so many people are dying in the name of one particular religion. It's not about saying that mine is better - that'll be proven one way or another when i die!

It's about not tolerating the excesses of Islamic fundamentalism. It's about calling a spade a spade, and learning how to count spades.

I understand your point. From my perspective it just irks me to watch Islam get singled out as particularly violent when I see so much hatred and violence from all faiths in the world.

1038 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:33:21am

re: #1035 Obdicut

Yes, that helps. I know all the OT stuff on witchcraft (though likewise it's rather confused), but I didn't have the impression that Jesus himself said much about it.

Thanks for the Acts passage. That's a real OT style showdown, in a way. However, it's a Jewish false prophet, not a Christian witch, so it doesn't really address a Christian tradition that embraces witchcraft. Assumedly, the witches of that tradition claim to be acting under God's name and asking him for favors, in the end.

That's the point I'm making-- a 'false prophet' is only discernible by a 'true prophet'. A hard-line Sunni will say that a hard-line Shi'ite is not a Muslim, but obviously, anthropologically or in common-sense, they are.

I get you. Jesus' myriad approaches to healing and help, to me, demonstrate the point that it's not about the technique.

Once you start to think that mixing herb A with toenail B and chant C, you're trusting in the technique and not the God.

There are plenty of folks who live in the margin there. However, it seems like the Nigerians in question were pretty far into witchcraft, to the point where it's easy to say that they were waaay past simply praying that Jesus would work through them to do miracles.

1039 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:35:20am

re: #1037 drcordell

I understand your point. From my perspective it just irks me to watch Islam get singled out as particularly violent when I see so much hatred and violence from all faiths in the world.

Then let's leave Christianity out of it for a sec. You really think that...Buddhism, for example, needs our attention in the same manner as Christianity?

Make a list of the worst actors on the international stage. Cross off the secular states. Of the theocracies remaining on your list, what is the percentage breakdown by religion?

That is why i believe it remains valid to single out Islam at this time. In 50 years, I pray that it will no longer be valid.

1040 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:35:54am

re: #1039 Aceofwhat?

Then let's leave Christianity out of it for a sec. You really think that...Buddhism, for example, needs our attention in the same manner as Christianity Islam?

Make a list of the worst actors on the international stage. Cross off the secular states. Of the theocracies remaining on your list, what is the percentage breakdown by religion?

That is why i believe it remains valid to single out Islam at this time. In 50 years, I pray that it will no longer be valid.

Ha! Helluva PIMF there. Freud can go fuck himself/

1041 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:37:49am

re: #1038 Aceofwhat?

Once you start to think that mixing herb A with toenail B and chant C, you're trusting in the technique and not the God.

The problem is that that applies to many Catholic ceremonies, and many other Christian ceremonies, as well.

There are plenty of folks who live in the margin there. However, it seems like the Nigerians in question were pretty far into witchcraft, to the point where it's easy to say that they were waaay past simply praying that Jesus would work through them to do miracles.

Ugandans, I believe. And to me, if they are or believe they are praying for a god who is the father of Jesus, the salvation of mankind, to work through them to do miracles, they're still Christian. But that's all a moot point, I think we understand each other well enough. Islam currently has more extremist groups and an overall greater tolerance for extremism than does Christianity, but there still are Christian groups and Christians who engage in the same sort of acts.

It's quantitative, not qualitative.

1042 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:38:46am

re: #1011 LudwigVanQuixote

i hope that you and your family have a fantastic holiday.

all the best-

1043 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:42:54am

re: #1027 Obdicut

Yeah, I remember that bit, I just don't remember Jesus actually saying, "It's cool when I do this, but make sure to fuck up any witch who does so." I don't recall Jesus talking about miraculous works from others at all.

He said that others would follow him and give "signs and portents" and who could do magic tricks too. He said that they would be agents of the devil trying to pervert his message. Which is why I currently do not believe or follow one word that Saul/Paul of Tarsus ever said. Celibate priests? Paul. Women as second class citizens/property? Paul. Homophobia in the new testament? Paul. Lots of other smaller perversions/additions to the message that Jesus preached when he was alive? Paul.

Paul may be celebrated as the "Father of the Church" (which kinda reeks of blasphemy all by itself if you ask me) but he did a lot more harm than good to Jesus's message if you ask me. The man wrote half of, 13 books, the new testament all by himself (although three are most likely later forgeries that were not written by him) and radically altered the emerging church.

I'm a Christian but I am a very strange kind of Christian as far as most people are concerned. ;)

1044 Aceofwhat?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:43:19am

re: #1041 Obdicut

Ugandans, I believe. And to me, if they are or believe they are praying for a god who is the father of Jesus, the salvation of mankind, to work through them to do miracles, they're still Christian. But that's all a moot point, I think we understand each other well enough. Islam currently has more extremist groups and an overall greater tolerance for extremism than does Christianity, but there still are Christian groups and Christians who engage in the same sort of acts.

It's quantitative, not qualitative.

yep.

Oh, and check out Acts 8. Simon the Magus. Generally, in the New Testament, "sorcery" is the word used for the condemnation as opposed to "witchcraft".

Note that Simon the Magus was actually baptized. It's a great cautionary tale to the Catholics/Christians you reference who may be tiptoeing the line here. It's one of many little reasons why I'm Protestant rather than Catholic.

When i pray for someone, i like to keep it simple, humble, and quiet. Either God can see the intention of my heart or I'm way off about this whole God thing...

1045 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:47:21am

re: #1042 Aceofwhat?

i hope that you and your family have a fantastic holiday.

all the best-

You too my friend!

1046 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:48:40am

re: #1023 Spare O'Lake

Chag Sameach.
Don't eat too much matzah brie.

You too. I am very fond of Matzah pizza personally.

1047 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:53:32am

re: #1046 LudwigVanQuixote

You too. I am very fond of Matzah pizza personally.

Saw a Matzo brittle recipe in the local paper's weekender section. With caramel, salt, nuts, and chocolate added.

1048 Barrett Brown  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:23:07pm

First off, I'd like to briefly note that the two commentators that I first point to as being incompetent and thus in need of amplified criticism are Thomas Friedman and Charles Krauthammer, one of whom is a liberal and one of whom is a conservative, and both of whom are fairly moderate in the degree of their partisanship. Based on this and perhaps the people who get their own chapters in my book - Friedman (liberal), Krauthammer (conservative), Richard Cohen (liberal), William Bennett (conservative), Martin Peretz (liberal), Robert Stacy McCain (conservative), it has been alleged by a couple of people that my project must necessarily be noticeably partisan in nature. Well done, guys.

Of course, I do end up going after more conservatives than liberals in my general output, which has been media criticism. I do so because it is easier. See above, for instance. There's a lot of nonsense that goes on at liberal blogs, but it absolutely pales in comparison to that which goes on at conservative ones. See the reaction Charles received from his former allies over the past two years or so of messy breakup.

Also, regarding this Christian/Muslim violence ratio noise, keep in mind that Christians stopped killed over religion as the Enlightenment spread; in the places where the Enlightenment have yet to saturate the culture, we see many Christians acting in the manner that Christians often behaved before the Enlightenment hit. Odd, eh? Maybe this is another case for the Little Green Footballs Street Irregulars!

1049 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 1:41:33pm

re: #1048 Barrett Brown

I really do wish you and your collaborators success in your endeavor. I know that currently the "go to" people that the media routinely interview are pretty much incompetent to give an informed opinion and/or so partisan as to make their "opinions" nothing but biased fantasy.

I often find myself muttering at my T.V. as one inane interview or opinion piece follows another, as one inane non-sequitur question or reply follows the one before it. I can remember when the news was about information rather than opinion except for the rare occasions when an obvious spade was actually called a spade and in no uncertain terms.

The current format that always give equal weighting and time to complete loons is nonsense. "Ok, we have heard from a truly great thinker, economist, and academician about his thoughts on the economy. Now here to rebut his views is an unemployed wino we found sleeping on a park bench! We only present information, you decide what to believe, aren't we just great and unbiased?!?!!!"

Kinda true, except for the fact that merely by giving the wino a national podium they give him equal stature and exposure as the man who has spent his entire life studying the issue. Nor do they attempt to qualify his rantings, or present his background or past mistakes, by being "unbiased" they are in fact being consciously biased. A lot of the talking heads I currently see on T.V. seem to be about as informed and insightful as that theoretical wino would be. But much of that can also be blamed on the totally insipid questions that they are asked to respond to.

Sigh...

1050 grandma  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:16:27pm

So, it’s been a long time since I’ve commented here. I haven’t even had time to read all the other comments from the contributors. My late father’s three year long illness (ugly Alzheimer’s) and ultimate death truly occupied me, as it should be. But I’m back. And I’ve been thinking. So I’ll share some --- like it or else. I just wish that this site would move along speedier since my absence than it has today. It never “used to was that way”.

First, about racism. I am not a racist, but that negative is hard to prove. So, rather than say how many minority friends I claim to have to prove my diversity crap, I’ll just say that if I separate myself from others, it is not because of race, gender, sexual orientation, wealth, religion, politics, or education. I will, and always will choose to separate myself from those of low class and total lack of character. As it should be.

Next, Health Care Reform. I can hardly wait until all Americans figure out all the politics on that one. Like Nancy Pelosi says, we will all get to know once the law is passed. In the meantime, I’m doing like any clear-thinking American, who doesn’t have his/her hand out waiting for the entitlement, and taking steps to make sure I’m not left out in the cold. I don’t have any issues about poor people, except that I don’t want to pay their way. Call me harsh, but I’m an old lady now. I’ve saved 10% of my entire income for the 40+ years I worked for a living. That wasn’t always easy, and I managed as a single parent to put four kids through college, never earning more than $50K a year. And when it comes to MY health care now, I’m willing to buck up. For three years I didn’t have any health insurance. But what I learned was that I could negotiate with any provider (hospitals, doctors, radiologists, etc.) just by letting them know that my checks were good. They were happy to give discounts and make life easier for me and for them. Now those folks that didn’t take those steps that I did can just suck it up and deal. Also, I have no preconceived ideological or religious issues with abortion. I’m 66 years old, so it matters not to me personally about all that. I just don’t want any of my tax dollars to pay for someone else’s because they were stupid. I looked it up on many websites. A first trimester abortion cost is an average of about $500. Second trimester abortions are about $5000. Being that an abortion is an elective medical procedure, let those who want them cough up the bucks early on to keep the cost down. The cost isn’t much more than a plasma TV, an annual cell phone contract, several tattoos, some elective piercings, or other unnecessary wants.

Lastly, and then I’ll shut up, global warming/climate change. What arrogant person actually thinks that mankind can change with legislation what the Almighty has in mind for the planet, when nobody knows the Almighty’s plan? Should the Almighty choose to destroy that which He created, and it has happened many times in the 4.5 billion years of Earth’s existence, can that be anything but good? The Creator does no evil. It just might not be real good for humans. And as humans, we are so self-centered as to think that mankind is the end-all to everything. Humans, get over it, and allow the Almighty to keep creating on His terms.

So thanks for entertaining my viewpoints, thanks for shopping, have a nice day, and tell your friends.


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