The Mighty Thor #160, January 1969

Lifestyle • Views: 8,818

Tonight’s photo from the Lizard Collection: issue #160 of “The Mighty Thor,” published in January 1969, in which the hammer-wielding Norse demigod encountered Stan Lee and Jack Kirby’s version of the ultimate being, Galactus.

They sure knew how to make their images jump out of the page; check out Thor’s hammer in this cover, drawn in front of the upper left panel.

Jump to bottom

1008 comments
1 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:46:37pm

and the proceeds go to charity?

2 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:48:47pm

Why the hell are all the super hero's wearing my F..ing PJ's!!?
////////////MOM?

3 darthstar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:50:00pm

As a recovering Catholic, I feel I have the right to say "Fuck you, Bishop" to this:
The leader of the nation’s second-largest diocese urged his congregation to pray for the pope, saying he was suffering some of the same unjust accusations once faced by Jesus.

4 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:50:35pm

Glad you are having fun with this potential treasure trove!

5 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:50:59pm

good catch actually, Thor was under printed intentionally to make it collectible right up to the Masterworks Collection in 74...

6 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:51:19pm

re: #3 darthstar

As a recovering Catholic, I feel I have the right to say "Fuck you, Bishop" to this:
The leader of the nation’s second-largest diocese urged his congregation to pray for the pope, saying he was suffering some of the same unjust accusations once faced by Jesus.

And as a current Catholic, I feel like I have the right to say that I will pray for the victims of these crimes, and that I will pray that the Pope and his advisors have their eyes opened and begin taking strong action.

7 Mocking Jay  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:51:28pm

re: #3 darthstar

As a recovering Catholic, I feel I have the right to say "Fuck you, Bishop" to this:
The leader of the nation’s second-largest diocese urged his congregation to pray for the pope, saying he was suffering some of the same unjust accusations once faced by Jesus.

Eh. Not as bad as the Irish church asking its congregation to donate more money to pay for the lawsuits against it.

8 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:51:45pm

re: #5 brookly red

good catch actually, Thor was under printed intentionally to make it collectible right up to the Masterworks Collection in 74...

94 I mean.

9 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:52:16pm

re: #3 darthstar

Jesus was a member of the Hitler youth?

10 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:53:03pm

re: #3 darthstar

Maybe he has magnets around his brain?

Study: Magnets can alter morality

Magnets can alter a person's sense of morality, according to a new report in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Using a powerful magnetic field, scientists from MIT, Harvard University and Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center are able to scramble the moral center of the brain, making it more difficult for people to separate innocent intentions from harmful outcomes. The research could have big implications for not only neuroscientists, but also for judges and juries.

"It's one thing to 'know' that we'll find morality in the brain," said Liane Young, a scientist at MIT and co-author of the article. "It's another to 'knock out' that brain area and change people's moral judgments."

I can already see the ads popping up on WND ...

11 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:55:53pm

re: #10 freetoken

Maybe he has magnets around his brain?

Study: Magnets can alter morality

I can already see the ads popping up on WND ...

OBAMA PLANS TO USE MAGNETS ON ANY WHO DEMAND HIS NIRTH CERTIFAKIT!!!11

MAGNITO JOINS OBAMA ADVISORS, PROMISES "MUTANT OLIGARY"!!1

BUY GOLD!11

12 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:56:54pm

re: #9 reloadingisnotahobby

Jesus was a member of the Hitler youth?

He also quietly transfered those of his original disciples who diddled and raped children to other duties elsewhere in the Galilee. That is why you have never heard of the gospels of Amos, Rufus, or Carl.

///

13 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:58:29pm

re: #10 freetoken

That link just redirects to the front page

14 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:58:32pm

re: #10 freetoken

Maybe he has magnets around his brain?

Study: Magnets can alter morality

I can already see the ads popping up on WND ...

I find this very creepy and unsettling.

I think I'm going to try to ignore thinking about the implications of this.

15 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:59:18pm

re: #9 reloadingisnotahobby

Jesus was a member of the Hitler youth?

No, but starting in 1936 membership in die Hitlerjugend was compulsory for every German boy between the ages of fourteen and eighteen.

You can say whatever you like about the Pope, but please bugger off with that canard about his being a Nazi. Or just go fuck a duck.

16 webevintage  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 6:59:51pm

As a sign of the coming zombie apocalypse, Debbie Schlussel might be right about Hannity and her claims about Freedom Alliance:
[Link: motherjones.com...]

17 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:00:01pm

re: #14 Jadespring

I find this very creepy and unsettling.

I think I'm going to try to ignore thinking about the implications of this.

The implications are that moral decisions should not be made when one's head is in a scanner.

18 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:00:54pm

re: #14 Jadespring

...I was think about where I put the BIG ASS magnets I stole
from a job site 25 tears ago!
I knew they'd come in handy for something!

19 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:02:25pm

I would be dangerous, if I had a hammer like that.
Bwahahaha!

20 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:02:35pm

re: #15 Cato the Elder

No, but starting in 1936 membership in die Hitlerjugend was compulsory for every German boy between the ages of fourteen and eighteen.

You can say whatever you like about the Pope, but please bugger off with that canard about his being a Nazi. Or just go fuck a duck.

Thank for that reminder, Cato. Pope Benedict has much one can criticize him over, but you are entirely right to hammer that lame canard into the ground.

21 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:03:29pm

re: #19 Floral Giraffe

I would be dangerous, if I had a hammer like that.
Bwahahaha!

in bed

22 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:03:34pm

re: #19 Floral Giraffe

I would be dangerous, if I had a hammer like that.
Bwahahaha!

That is why only Charles can be trusted to wield the mighty Ban Hammer!

/just being silly

23 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:03:50pm

re: #10 freetoken

Maybe he has magnets around his brain?

Study: Magnets can alter morality

I can already see the ads popping up on WND ...

today WND - half an hour ago National Review, tommorow Ney York TImes.....


(i think thats the way it runs these days)

24 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:03:56pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

re: #15 Cato the Elder

Did I miss a tag??
oop's My bad!

25 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:04:20pm

re: #14 Jadespring

I think I'm going to try to ignore thinking about the implications of this.

Yeah... when "morality" is just an electro-chemical state of the brain, where goest ethics?

26 bratwurst  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:05:50pm

re: #15 Cato the Elder

No, but starting in 1936 membership in die Hitlerjugend was compulsory for every German boy between the ages of fourteen and eighteen.

You can say whatever you like about the Pope, but please bugger off with that canard about his being a Nazi. Or just go fuck a duck.

I got a downding for pointing this out the other night. Go figure.

27 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:06:12pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

Pat Condell's latest diatribe on the subject, apologies if this has already been posted.

28 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:06:43pm

re: #21 NJDhockeyfan

in bed

You wish!
//

29 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:07:00pm

re: #25 freetoken

When scientist use breakfast lingo like "scramble" all bets are off!

30 Mocking Jay  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:07:16pm

re: #25 freetoken

Yeah... when "morality" is just an electro-chemical state of the brain, where goest ethics?

I know it's hard for us to accept but free will is kind of a sham.

31 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:07:54pm

Heh.

Barack Obama is Xenu: Scientology, Tea Party join forces

LOS ANGELES – Combining the works of science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard, fictional character Ronald Reagan, economics fiction writer Milton Friedman and actor Tom Cruise, the Church of Scientology has announced that it has officially joined forces with the Tea Party movement.

“The simple fact is that our God has told us that Earth was once known as ‘Teegeeack,’” said Scientology leader David Miscavige. “This just can’t be a coincidence.”

The new off-shoot group – tentatively known as “ScienTealogy” – will combine the beliefs of Scientology and the beliefs of Tea Party aficionados.

According to a press release, the core beliefs of Scientealogy will be that Xenu the dictator of the “Galactic Confederacy” who, 75 million years ago, brought billion of his people to Earth in a DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. This incident gave birth to Ronald Reagan and trickle-down economics.

The now-disembodied victims’ souls, which Hubbard called Thetans, were blown into the air by the blast. They were captured by Xenu’s forces using an “electronic ribbon” and sucked into “vacuum zones” around the world, where they were taken to a type of cinema, and forced to watch a “three-D, super colossal motion picture” for thirty-six days.

This motion picture implanted socialist dogma into the heads of the Thetans and destroyed their sense of personal identity, personal responsibility, gun ownership and low taxes for the rich.

Scientologist superstar Tom Cruise, in a press conference with long-ago TV star and top Tea Bagger Victoria Jackson said that it was obvious that Xenu had returned to Earth in the form of U.S. President Barack Obama.

“I watch Glenn Beck and he’s taught me well,” said Jackson. “Progressive is the new word for Communist, but it’s the same goal as Xenu’s control of everything and it’s very obvious that Obama is Xenu and the Thetans must be destroyed or they’ll take our guns and put us in camps and take away our freedom of speech and kill us all and it’s really important.”

“That sounds about right,” said Cruise.

Scientealogy is planning to hold it’s first rally later this week in Tupelo, Miss. Fox News has estimated that as many as 34 million people will likely attend.

“This is an exciting time for we brave, patriotic Teegeeackians,” said Miscavige. “And it can all be yours for the low price of $2,000 a lesson. And remember, if you cross us, we’ll kill you. That’s something both Scientology and the Tea Party can agree on.”

32 jvic  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:08:26pm

re: #6 reine.de.tout

And as a current Catholic, I feel like I have the right to say that I will pray for the victims of these crimes, and that I will pray that the Pope and his advisors have their eyes opened and begin taking strong action.

Surely there's a shrine in the Aleutians, north of the Arctic Circle, in Patagonia, etc. Send Bernard Cardinal Law to oversee it.

33 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:08:44pm

re: #26 bratwurst

I got a downding for pointing this out the other night. Go figure.

And another just now, when Cato says it it is just impartial information, but when you say it you obviously have an agenda!

/ lol, I'll take it back in a minute. I was j/k.

34 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:08:51pm

re: #25 freetoken

Yeah... when "morality" is just an electro-chemical state of the brain, where goest ethics?

Yeah, that's the area of implications that I first thought of. Then I went to the area of this could be used negatively. Then I just decided I better stop thinking about it. :)

35 Altermite  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:08:52pm

re: #25 freetoken

Yeah... when "morality" is just an electro-chemical state of the brain, where goest ethics?

I'd like to think that it gets awesome, as things with magnets are apt to do.

Reading the article on the study does give the nice feeling that the magnetic effect is (unsurprisingly) temporary, and doesn't persist long after the source of the magnetic field is removed. It also doesn't completely knock out the moral center, but does fuzz it enough to register above the threshold of significance.

36 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:09:14pm

re: #25 freetoken

Yeah... when "morality" is just an electro-chemical state of the brain, where goest ethics?

Here? I have yet to watch the whole thing, so I don't know what the conclusion is.

37 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:10:30pm

re: #30 JasonA

I think most physicists would agree with you, if pressed on the point. At times this discussion flares up when discussing "time" and thermodynamics.

38 Altermite  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:10:55pm

re: #31 NJDhockeyfan
I had a brief and terrifying moment before I realized it was a joke.

I wasn't surprised, though. It was more of a "should have seen that one coming" feeling.

39 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:11:06pm

re: #34 Jadespring

Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
Na...!

40 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:11:28pm

re: #35 Altermite

I'd like to think that it gets awesome, as things with magnets are apt to do.

Reading the article on the study does give the nice feeling that the magnetic effect is (unsurprisingly) temporary, and doesn't persist long after the source of the magnetic field is removed. It also doesn't completely knock out the moral center, but does fuzz it enough to register above the threshold of significance.

Likker is quikker.

41 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:12:41pm

re: #27 Slumbering Behemoth

Pat Condell's latest diatribe on the subject, apologies if this has already been posted.

Pretty good rant. I'd love to have 10 minutes with Pat to discuss Geert. Pat's just wrong when it comes to supporting him.

42 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:13:00pm

re: #39 reloadingisnotahobby

Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
Na...!

I dunno. What are you thinking? :)

43 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:13:24pm

re: #39 reloadingisnotahobby

Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
Na...!

I think so Brain, but where are we going to find a pair of earmuffs that size?

/

44 Altermite  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:13:36pm

re: #40 Decatur Deb

Likker is quikker.

Thankfully, inhibitions=/=morals.

Or college campuses would be full of terribly debauched and immoral behavior ...

oh, right.

45 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:13:49pm

re: #34 Jadespring

Like...Why are the electric bills so HIGH at the
Congressional Office Building???
Hmmmm?

46 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:14:58pm

re: #45 reloadingisnotahobby

Like...Why are the electric bills so HIGH at the
Congressional Office Building???
Hmmm?

LOL!

47 bratwurst  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:16:23pm

re: #33 ausador

And another just now, when Cato says it it is just impartial information, but when you say it you obviously have an agenda!

/ lol, I'll take it back in a minute. I was j/k.

LOL I thought maybe it had something to do with a certain poster suggesting that my icon is the logo of what was "Hitler's favorite football club". First of all, this is a canard mostly spread by rival Dortmund fans. The team (Schalke 04) was the most successful in Germany during the era...but the fact it was made up of leftist coal minors and many of the players and fans had eastern European names severely limited their appeal to the higher-ups. Second of all, even if they were Hitler's favorite...big deal. Arsenal (of London) is said to be Osama Bin Laden's favorite team. Does that make all Arsenal fans Al-Qaeda supporters?

48 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:17:00pm

re: #19 Floral Giraffe

I would be dangerous, if I had a hammer like that.
Bwahahaha!

If I Had A Hammer

49 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:17:18pm

re: #43 Dark_Falcon

[Link: en.wikiquote.org...]

50 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:19:23pm

Shall we have a singalong?

51 Decatur Deb  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:19:47pm

'Nite, all.

52 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:20:21pm

re: #51 Decatur Deb

Goodnight!

53 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:20:22pm

re: #47 bratwurst

Arsenal are my team - and i believe it's true that it was Osama's team, it should probably go through snopes, but i'm sure i've heard the rumours, i think his brother said it in an interview.

54 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:20:34pm

How cool is this?

You + $430 = Flight over Eugene in a B-17 Flying Fortress

EUGENE, Ore. -- Keep your eyes peeled: The Liberty Belle, a restored World War II Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress, will take to the skies over Eugene on Monday, April 5.

And if you want to take a ride, mark your calendar: On April 10, $430 can put you on board this flying piece of history.

The total flight experience takes 45 minutes with approximately half hour in flight. Flight experiences are $395 for Liberty Foundation members and $430 for non-members. Passengers can become a Liberty Foundation Member for $40 and receive the member discount for family and friends.

55 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:22:04pm

re: #47 bratwurst

although a high preponderance of arsenal shirts are seen in world trouble spots....... Kids in southern iraq during the invasion, outside the presiddential palace in Ukraine and the BErlin Wall, all either reputed to be or visually proven to be attened by arsenal fans.

We get around.

56 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:22:42pm

re: #54 NJDhockeyfan

I got to climb around in that one two years ago...
Our house is 1/2 mile off the runway...
No rides offered tho!

57 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:24:46pm

re: #56 reloadingisnotahobby

I got to climb around in that one two years ago...
Our house is 1/2 mile off the runway...
No rides offered tho!

Now is your chance! Don't forget to bring your video camera.

58 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:24:55pm

anyways, g'night all.

play nice.

59 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:26:32pm

re: #57 NJDhockeyfan

I'm not in Oregon...
They landed here on the way to Texas I think.
Some Vets that served on B-17's were invited out to reminisce.

60 bratwurst  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:26:50pm

re: #53 wozzablog

Arsenal are my team

And just when I was starting to like you! To balance out my first favorite team, my second favorite is Spurs. :D And if the Osama business weren't enough, you play in a stadium called Emirates! I can, in all seriousness, wish you luck vs. Barca on Wednesday.

61 jvic  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:26:50pm

re: #26 bratwurst

re: #15 Cato the Elder

No, but starting in 1936 membership in die Hitlerjugend was compulsory for every German boy between the ages of fourteen and eighteen.

You can say whatever you like about the Pope, but please bugger off with that canard about his being a Nazi. Or just go fuck a duck.

I got a downding for pointing this out the other night. Go figure.

Your comment was restrained and civil. I see no basis for the downding and have offset it.

62 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:26:57pm

Charles, this may be totally geeky or maybe it's a girl thing, but do you have any Archie's in there? Or maybe the Green Hornet? I loved the Green Hornet. My brother had a cardboard "lair" with a working elevator on a pulley.

63 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:27:25pm

re: #54 NJDhockeyfan

How cool is this?

You + $430 = Flight over Eugene in a B-17 Flying Fortress

I wish I could do something like that, but even if such a thing were available her in Chicagoland its out of my price range. Maybe someday... (says the Cubs fan)

64 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:28:19pm

All was not well in the kingdom of Asgard.

Thor, God of Thunder was in a foul mood, stomping around and
banging his hammer and growling to himself.

Thor's father, Odin, enquired as to the reason behind Thor's mood.
Thor replied sheepishly that he had not had sex for at least six
months, and was feeling frustrated and super-humanly horny.

"That's easy to fix", said Odin, "just get yourself down to Earth,
find a nice girl and satisfy your needs - but be very careful!
Remember that you are a god, and that humans are mere mortals who
will not be used to the incredibly energetic sex that we god's
enjoy.

A smile spread across Thor's face as he picked up his hammer and
set off toward Earth.

On Earth Thor headed for the nearest bar in search of his dream
date. He came upon an attractive young lady sitting alone at the
bar and offered to buy her a drink,

"Yeth pleath", she replied "that would be tho nith"

Thor was curious about the way the girl spoke - "What tongue is
that which you speak young woman ?, I have heard it not before."

"It'th Englith thilly" she retorted "I jutht have a thlight lithp,
thath all !"

More drink flowed, one thing led to another and Thor was invited
back to the girls place, where they had sex thirty seven times.
With his appetite satiated and the girl exhausted and fast asleep,
Thor quietly picked up his mighty hammer and returned to Asgard.

"Well Thor", enquired Odin, "How did your little trip to Earth
go ?"

"Oh father", replied the happy Thor "It was marvellous - thirty
seven times we did it!! Thirty seven times !"

Odin was horrified "You berk Thor - I warned you that humans were
not able to cope with the incredible sexual prowess of we gods -
you had best get yourself back down to Earth and check that the
young lady has survived the ordeal !"

Thor left sheepishly and returned to Earth where, luckily, he
found the young lady in the bar where they had originally met.

"Many thanks for last night young lady - it was incredible, oh,
by the way, I'm Thor."

Shifting uncomfortably on her bar stool the girl replied "Your
thor, Oh! I'm tho thorry! ....I can hardly take a pith!"

65 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:28:22pm

re: #54 NJDhockeyfan

How cool is this?

You + $430 = Flight over Eugene in a B-17 Flying Fortress

They bring it to my little local airport, too.
It's expensive, but, I'm very tempted.
Hmmm, wonder if I could get the co-pilot's seat?

66 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:29:18pm

re: #60 bratwurst

Schalke are my german team, just as BArca are my spanish team - largely chosen for historical reasons.

Arsenal just because i'm local.

67 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:29:56pm

re: #63 Dark_Falcon

I wish I could do something like that, but even if such a thing were available her in Chicagoland its out of my price range. Maybe someday... (says the Cubs fan)

If you can make it to LA, and you're serious, I think you have my email! (I'd have an excuse to go along for the ride....)

68 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:30:43pm

re: #25 freetoken

Yeah... when "morality" is just an electro-chemical state of the brain, where goest ethics?

Who is this "Ethics" of whom thou speakest, and why addressest thou her in the second-person singular?

Is she pretty?

69 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:30:46pm

re: #63 Dark_Falcon

I wish I could do something like that, but even if such a thing were available her in Chicagoland its out of my price range. Maybe someday... (says the Cubs fan)

How can we get that monkey goat curse off their backs?
/Huge Cubs fan here.

70 lostlakehiker  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:30:48pm

re: #10 freetoken

Maybe he has magnets around his brain?

Study: Magnets can alter morality

I can already see the ads popping up on WND ...

Well, the brain is a physical organ. Mess with it and you mess with its output. The more we learn about the brain, the more we realize that thinking doesn't happen in soulspace, it happens in the brain, and any little injury can disable capabilities we are used to thinking of as integral to life.

I'm just now reading a book, Reading in the Brain, detailing how discoveries in neuroscience help us understand what happens when we read and how some stroke injuries can wipe out reading while leaving essentially all else intact. An injury to another center, quite possibly, could wipe out moral thinking, leaving other capabilities intact.

There are case records where that's just what happened.

71 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:31:01pm

re: #65 Floral Giraffe

I flew right seat in a DC-3 when I was 19 years old!
I'll never forget it!

72 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:31:33pm

re: #66 wozzablog

Schalke are my german team, just as BArca are my spanish team - largely chosen for historical reasons.

Arsenal just because i'm local.

so what is up with the local politics?

73 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:31:38pm

re: #67 Floral Giraffe

If you can make it to LA, and you're serious, I think you have my email! (I'd have an excuse to go along for the ride...)

I can't travel right now. After I get settled into a new job, maybe. I got some new interviews set up today and moved another prospect forwards today. Good progress all around.

74 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:31:52pm

re: #71 reloadingisnotahobby

I flew right seat in a DC-3 when I was 19 years old!
I'll never forget it!

I taxied down the runway in a B-52 once.

75 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:31:56pm

re: #62 marjoriemoon

Charles, this may be totally geeky or maybe it's a girl thing, but do you have any Archie's in there? Or maybe the Green Hornet? I loved the Green Hornet. My brother had a cardboard "lair" with a working elevator on a pulley.

We have hundreds of Archie comics. Also hundreds of Richie Rich.

No Green Hornet, but several issues of Green Lantern.

76 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:32:30pm

My Captain America Pj's are out of the dryer!!
Goodnight!

77 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:33:53pm

re: #74 NJDhockeyfan

Damn!
DC -3 was the oldest and biggest beast I ever flew in!
..YOU WIN!!!

78 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:35:56pm

re: #72 brookly red

Barca and the region stood up to franco while Real MAdrid were the *chosen* ones.

Scahlke partly because of the coal miners (some of my heritage is from mining communities)

GEnerally works teams and teams that try to maintain links with their communitys rather than sell out for huge amounts of money and either don't put anything back or treat the fans like scum

79 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:36:06pm

re: #77 reloadingisnotahobby

But the fastest was a Learjet!!
Neener neener!!
LOL

80 What, me worry?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:36:24pm

re: #75 Charles

We have hundreds of Archie comics. Also hundreds of Richie Rich.

No Green Hornet, but several issues of Green Lantern.

Wow. I was quite the Archie fan. Hmmm maybe it was the Green Lantern. lol Richie Rich, Dot and I think Casper was in there, too. Mighty fine collection!

81 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:37:36pm

Good night!!
And ain't kidding neither!!

82 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:37:47pm
83 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:38:30pm

re: #77 reloadingisnotahobby

Damn!
DC -3 was the oldest and biggest beast I ever flew in!
..YOU WIN!!!

:)

When I was in the AF, I worked on a system on the B-52. If our system failed when the plane was ready to take off someone had to go inside the plane and fix it. They sent me in one day and while I was under the radar nav station repairing a busted wire I heard the hatch close and then felt the plane rumble down the runway. I thought we were going to take off but no such luck. It was very exciting though.

84 soap_man  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:39:40pm

Evening all! I'm dog-sitting for a week, starting tonight, and to my utter shock, the homeowner does not have a connection to the ole interwebs.

Pretty lame. If it weren't for the giant flatscreen TV, digital cable with HD and blueray DVD player, I would swear I was living in the damn 50's. :)

85 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:40:13pm

re: #19 Floral Giraffe

I would be dangerous, if I had a hammer like that.
Bwahahaha!

From Capricorn One (1978)

Let's split up the survival kit... who wants the gun?

Not me. I'll shoot myself in the foot.

Me neither. I'll shoot him in the foot.

I'll take the gun.

86 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:40:22pm

re: #68 Cato the Elder

Who is this "Ethics" of whom thou speakest, and why addressest thou her in the second-person singular?

Is she pretty?


Nay. Nay. Nay.

87 bratwurst  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:40:36pm

re: #78 wozzablog

Spare a thought for the Königsblau as they take on Bayern Saturday. A win could make the end of a 52 year title drought more than realistic.

88 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:41:52pm

re: #87 bratwurst

g'luck.

:-)

89 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:41:55pm

re: #69 NJDhockeyfan

We could pick an airport & apply for the group discount. Code word "Lizard". Imagine our shock & surprise to meet! And the war to be co-pilot! LOL!

90 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:42:14pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Pretty good rant. I'd love to have 10 minutes with Pat to discuss Geert. Pat's just wrong when it comes to supporting him.

Fully agree. On that, I think he is more aligned with his brand of atheism than he is with any brand of fascism. I too would love for you to get ten minutes of his time on that subject, the transcript would be a most interesting read, I think.

91 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:43:04pm

re: #73 Dark_Falcon

I can't travel right now. After I get settled into a new job, maybe. I got some new interviews set up today and moved another prospect forwards today. Good progress all around.

Congratulations on the forward progress!
Keep up the good work!
Sorry to tease you with the not-right-now fun.

92 brookly red  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:44:44pm

re: #78 wozzablog

Barca and the region stood up to franco while Real MAdrid were the *chosen* ones.

Scahlke partly because of the coal miners (some of my heritage is from mining communities)

GEnerally works teams and teams that try to maintain links with their communitys rather than sell out for huge amounts of money and either don't put anything back or treat the fans like scum

hey that is what is called correspondence... I like it

93 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:46:34pm

re: #76 reloadingisnotahobby

My Captain America Pj's are out of the dryer!!
Goodnight!

Captain America is dead!

94 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:47:04pm

re: #92 brookly red

took me a couple of years to cotton on following my own team, Arsenal, that they were a works team - from the munitions factory (naturally).

95 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:48:18pm

anyhews. i got's to dash.

to sleep, perchance to dream.

96 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:49:04pm

re: #91 Floral Giraffe

Congratulations on the forward progress!
Keep up the good work!
Sorry to tease you with the not-right-now fun.

You're fine. you've always been supportive and that helps me alot.

97 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:53:00pm
98 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:54:07pm
99 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:55:16pm

re: #97 The Sanity Inspector

Friggin' artists! That gawt-damned hippie needs a haircut!
///

100 Big Steve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:55:21pm

re: #75 Charles

We have hundreds of Archie comics. Also hundreds of Richie Rich.

No Green Hornet, but several issues of Green Lantern.

Any DC comics.....or were you totally a Marvel kind of guy. Also, any chance you can scan these without the plastic sheath so we can see them in full glory.

101 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:55:35pm

re: #98 NJDhockeyfan

I think he's going to be playing with Duke Robillard at a local club next month.

102 Big Steve  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:58:16pm

Ah 12 cent comics. I remember vividly walking up to the 23 shop in Wayne New Jersey probably around 1966 and having a "Sophie's Choice" every week. My allowance was 25 cents and I could buy one comic book and a candy bar or two comic books. It was always a mind wrenching decision.

103 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:58:25pm

re: #70 lostlakehiker

Well, the brain is a physical organ. Mess with it and you mess with its output. The more we learn about the brain, the more we realize that thinking doesn't happen in soulspace, it happens in the brain, and any little injury can disable capabilities we are used to thinking of as integral to life.

I'm just now reading a book, Reading in the Brain, detailing how discoveries in neuroscience help us understand what happens when we read and how some stroke injuries can wipe out reading while leaving essentially all else intact. An injury to another center, quite possibly, could wipe out moral thinking, leaving other capabilities intact.

There are case records where that's just what happened.

Phineas Gage. There was even a punk band named after him.

104 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:58:39pm

re: #97 The Sanity Inspector

The earliest known photograph of a photographer, from late 1839.

Wait a minute - even if (and that's a big if) that is the first photo of a photographer, the mere existence of the photo means there was a second photographer. And if you have a second photographer, then you must have a conspiracy!

// Buy more gold!!

105 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:58:52pm

Myth of Israel stealing organs turns up at UN

Extreme claims that Israel is trafficking the organs of dead Palestinians are printed in an official United Nations document, exposing the world body to charges it is doing the bidding of anti-Israel countries such as Iran and Libya.

The revelation comes as Iran and Libya are leading candidates for election this year to the UN Human Rights Council, which the world body bills as the planet's foremost human rights monitoring group.

The election of Iran would be an affront to Canada, which each year leads a campaign in the UN General Assembly to have Iran's human rights record condemned -- invariably in the face of substantial opposition from Iranian sympathizer states such as Cuba, Venezuela and even Afghanistan.

Israel's organ trafficking is alleged by the Libya-founded International Organization for the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination.

106 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:59:22pm

Evening Honcos!!

107 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:00:11pm

re: #106 Cannadian Club Akbar

Evening Honcos!!

Hola! Como esta?

108 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:00:34pm

re: #105 NJDhockeyfan

Myth of Israel stealing organs turns up at UN

Typical and disgustingly predictable. How wonderful is the Human Rights Council President Obama us join!

/dripping

109 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:00:49pm

re: #104 SteveC

A guy I work with (actually, used to work with) had a virus attacking his heart a week ago. Today, open heart surgery. Don't know facts.

110 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:01:44pm

re: #107 Floral Giraffe

Hola! Como esta?

Taco. And in a related note, I made wet burritos tonight. THE BEST EVAH!!!

111 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:02:36pm

re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar

Taco. And in a related note, I made wet burritos tonight. THE BEST EVAH!!!

OK, as long as we don't get tomorrow's preview.
Again.
Thankyouverymuchinadvance!

112 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:03:39pm

Believe it or don't, but Hamas isn't the most extreme jihadist faction in Gaza. According to this scholarly sounding website, there's another splinter group that thinks they're too soft and westernized.

113 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:03:59pm

re: #105 NJDhockeyfan

Myth of Israel stealing organs turns up at UN

Is the Montreal Gazette on the list of acceptable publications for the Progs?

114 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:04:26pm

re: #106 Cannadian Club Akbar

Evening Honcos!!

Ain't that "fucking honcos"?

115 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:04:50pm

re: #100 Big Steve

Any DC comics...or were you totally a Marvel kind of guy. Also, any chance you can scan these without the plastic sheath so we can see them in full glory.

Honest to God Story.. I was probably six or seven.. I really didn't read much comics..But read a few Superman comics and thought I was superman..So yup..Dumbass little kid tied a cape around my neck climbed up on a garbage can and dived off into the concrete..A beautiful swan dive...And went to the hospital for stitches..
The pain of finding out they was no Santa Claus was nothing to the speed and suddenness of finding out there was no Superman...
Never read comics after that

116 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:04:58pm

re: #113 MandyManners

What's a Prog? I must have missed that!
TIA!

117 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:05:24pm

Federal appeals court rules PLO’s side must be heard

BOSTON — A federal appeals court panel ordered a lower court to hear the PLO’s arguments about why it shouldn’t have to pay a $116-million verdict against it for the death of Jewish couple in Israel in 1996.

The three-judge panel from the 1st Circuit Court of Appeals found that Senior U.S. District Judge Ronald Lagueux erred in concluding that court rules barred him from considering providing relief to the PLO because the organization had failed to respond to the suit brought by the couple’s family.

The appeals panel, which included retired Supreme Court Justice David Souter, ruled that the court can consider motions seeking relief from a judgment the resulted from a party’s default under “exceptional circumstances.”

The PLO had blamed its earlier failure to respond on political extremism within the PLO and the Palestinian Authority. The organizations insist they have had a good-faith change of heart and that they have legitimate, merit-based arguments to defend themselves, the ruling states. They emphasize the unique nature of the case, its political ramifications and its potential impact on international relations.

118 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:05:38pm

re: #114 MandyManners

Ain't that "fucking honcos"?

Is to you...
/

119 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:06:16pm

re: #116 Floral Giraffe

What's a Prog? I must have missed that!
TIA!

Progressive.

120 Irenicum  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:06:42pm

re: #97 The Sanity Inspector

Damn cool!

121 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:07:11pm

re: #117 NJDhockeyfan

Keep it up and you will be Cato's "darling".

122 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:07:26pm

re: #109 Cannadian Club Akbar

A guy I work with (actually, used to work with) had a virus attacking his heart a week ago. Today, open heart surgery. Don't know facts.

Oh, shit. My first guess after reading "Virus attacking the heart" is Endocarditis

I've had Endo and was not a happy camper. 7 weeks of IV antibiotics, a cyst taken out of my brain, followed by 3 more weeks of IV Antibiotics.

Worse cases can ruin a heart valve, necessitating open heart surgery to replace it.

123 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:07:30pm

re: #119 MandyManners

Progressive.

Thanks. I need to do some research.

124 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:08:22pm

re: #122 SteveC

He also had water around the heart. Common with stuff like this?

125 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:08:28pm

re: #113 MandyManners

Is the Montreal Gazette on the list of acceptable publications for the Progs?

No...only links to DKos, DD, HuffPo, Crooks and Liars, and TPM are acceptable.

126 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:08:40pm

re: #123 Floral Giraffe

Thanks. I need to do some research.

Glenn Beck has the scoop.

127 Irenicum  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:08:43pm

re: #109 Cannadian Club Akbar

Pray that he gets through it OK.

128 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:08:54pm

re: #115 HoosierHoops

Honest to God Story.. I was probably six or seven.. I really didn't read much comics..But read a few Superman comics and thought I was superman..So yup..Dumbass little kid tied a cape around my neck climbed up on a garbage can and dived off into the concrete..A beautiful swan dive...And went to the hospital for stitches..
The pain of finding out they was no Santa Claus was nothing to the speed and suddenness of finding out there was no Superman...
Never read comics after that

Newton's 12th Law of Gravity: Only Superman can fly, dummy!

// Learned it myself, no damage, thankfully.

129 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:09:07pm

re: #122 SteveC

And yes. He needs a new valve.

130 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:09:24pm

re: #118 Cannadian Club Akbar

Is to you...
/

So say you!

131 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:10:23pm

re: #121 MandyManners

Keep it up and you will be Cato's "darling".

Ewwww.

132 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:10:38pm

re: #125 NJDhockeyfan

No...only links to DKos, DD, HuffPo, Crooks and Liars, and TPM are acceptable.

Fucking-A. It goes much deeper.

Scratch a bit.

Well, I know you do.

133 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:10:57pm

re: #130 MandyManners

So say you!

I just hope I didn't offend LH with my little joke this morning. I'll feel bad. And that is a true statement.

134 Irenicum  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:11:08pm

re: #115 HoosierHoops

My sister did the exact same thing, except it was a sand dune on Staten Island. Hello ER and a reset arm bone.

135 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:12:21pm

re: #126 Stanley Sea

Glenn Beck has the scoop.

YIKES!

136 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:12:22pm

re: #132 MandyManners

Fucking-A. It goes much deeper.


All the way to .... Soros!

137 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:12:39pm

re: #124 Cannadian Club Akbar

He also had water around the heart. Common with stuff like this?

That sounds like Pericardial Effusion (Fluid surrounding the heart) The causes are many, and the treatment depends on the cause. But that coupled with OHS doesn't sound like a minor thing. :(

138 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:13:10pm

re: #133 Cannadian Club Akbar

I just hope I didn't offend LH with my little joke this morning. I'll feel bad. And that is a true statement.

Take care and get rest!

139 Irenicum  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:14:05pm

re: #136 freetoken

Not Soros! Why...he's...the...Anti-Christ!!!
///

140 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:14:33pm

re: #135 Floral Giraffe

YIKES!

So, you're gonna' stop your research here?

141 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:15:06pm

re: #137 SteveC

He told my boss he might have died. My boss relayed the news to me, which was met with a "No Shit" comment. But I have you in my corner as well as your blog. :)

142 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:15:32pm

re: #139 Irenicum

Not Soros! Why...he's...the...Anti-Christ!!!
///

No he is not!

They are neighbors, though!

143 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:16:06pm

re: #142 SteveC

No he is not!

They are neighbors, though!

Yea, with my ex...

144 Irenicum  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:16:58pm

re: #142 SteveC

Ah, 667 Debil Highway! Thanks for the septuple heads up!

145 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:19:09pm

Jewish leader doubts Carter apology on Israel

ATLANTA — A prominent Jewish leader said Monday he doubts the sincerity of former President Jimmy Carter's recent apology to the Jewish community after Carter said in a speech this month that the U.S. government has "yielded excessively" to Israel.

Abraham Foxman, the national director of the Anti-Defamation League, said in December he was encouraged that Carter had sent an open letter to the Jewish community a few months earlier to offer an Al Het — a prayer said on Yom Kippur, the Jewish Day of Atonement.

But he said Monday that the comments Carter made at a two-day conference on U.S.-Arab relations, in which he encouraged President Barack Obama to take a more "balanced" position in its relations with Israel, "leave little doubt of the insincerity of his apology."

"Nothing has changed. None of his views have been recalibrated," said Foxman, who said he spoke with the Georgia Democrat by telephone last week about his comments. "He hasn't really changed his views and I don't understand what this Al Het letter was all about."

Carter, who could not immediately be reached for comment, issued his apology in hopes of improving an often-tense relationship with the Jewish community.

146 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:19:42pm

re: #134 Irenicum

My sister did the exact same thing, except it was a sand dune on Staten Island. Hello ER and a reset arm bone.

It's amazing how stupid we were as kids that we are now posting on Blogs as adults..Jeez...How did we survive childhood?
*wink*

147 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:19:48pm

re: #143 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea, with my ex...

Big puff of smoke in a church last Sunday, and the Devil himself appeared. Everyone ran... except for this one little old man in the back.

"Hey Mister, don't you know who I am?"

Old fella pulls out his glasses, gets them on, and says "I say, you look like de debbil!"

"That's me! Satan himself! BOO!"

The old man didn't even blink.

"So fella... you know who I am, and I don't scare you?"

"Not a bit."

"Mind telling me why?"

"I was married to your sister for 35 years," the old man said.

148 Irenicum  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:20:56pm

re: #146 HoosierHoops

I wonder how we (I) survive adulthood. ;)

149 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:21:38pm

re: #102 Big Steve

Ah 12 cent comics. I remember vividly walking up to the 23 shop in Wayne New Jersey probably around 1966 and having a "Sophie's Choice" every week. My allowance was 25 cents and I could buy one comic book and a candy bar or two comic books. It was always a mind wrenching decision.

The challenging decisions of naive childhood, I love it. We all miss that about our youth.

When I hear young kids griping about how bad life sucks, I always tell them to wait 'til they have to pay taxes, bills, and buy their own clothes/food. Of course, that only applies to children growing up in fortunate environments like here in the U.S.

150 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:21:40pm

re: #145 NJDhockeyfan

Jewish leader doubts Carter apology on Israel

Carter has made it clear his apology was dishonest. Foxman is right to not want to speak to Carter, since all Carter is doing is talking for the sake of appearances. Foxman is right not to accept being his stage prop.

151 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:21:55pm

re: #145 NJDhockeyfan

Jewish leader doubts Carter apology on Israel

I posted the fact that Jimmy Carter is a Dbag twice with in 20 minutes the other day. I'll stick with my rant.

152 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:22:14pm

re: #148 Irenicum

I wonder how we (I) survive adulthood. ;)

Well, have you ever said "Watch this!" or "Hold my beer!" ?

//Say "Hold my beer and watch this!" and you are doomed!

153 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:22:16pm

re: #97 The Sanity Inspector

The earliest known photograph of a photographer, from late 1839.

That's Richard Burton (the actor) isn't it?

154 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:23:00pm

re: #140 MandyManners

So, you're gonna' stop your research here?

No. But, having spent the last 2 days analyzing what my health insurance was, and is, and is going to be, and the associated costs, I'm gonna be selfish, and wait to look into this. I have a feeling that "progressive" isn't where I want to go. But, my brain already hurts. And I have some serious decisions to make on my insurance. A tad "closer to home" than politics, at the moment. The two may yet merge...

155 Irenicum  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:26:19pm

re: #147 SteveC

And so My Wife's Home Town courtesy of Bob Dylan:

156 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:26:21pm

GALACTUS :D :D :D :D

Oh how I love GALACTUS

157 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:27:54pm

Did I tell ya'll about the wine box I got? Beautiful. A place near where I work sells wine for about $300 a bottle. The box it came in is wooden and the label on it is "branded" on to it. Wow.

158 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:29:23pm

re: #116 Floral Giraffe

What's a Prog? I must have missed that!
TIA!

it's a shortening of "progressive" that partisans use. Sorta like saying "the democrat party" or "spendocrats" or "rethugs" or Bush Crime Family" or whatever. It's weak kid stuff.

Either way, I don't even really like the term "progressive", I prefer liberal. More honest, more unambiguous.

159 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:29:41pm

re: #153 ryannon

That's Richard Burton (the actor) isn't it?

Nope, not even Richard Burton the adventurer.

160 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:33:00pm

In 2002, there was a spasm of communal violence in the Indian state of Gujarat, mostly ultra-nationalist Hindus massacring Muslims. A documentary maker named Rakesh Sharma interviewed people there; this is the final ten minutes of the film. Just so we can know that there are times when "they" really are the victims...

161 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:33:46pm

How bout some Johnny?

Chainsaw Ted on "The Johnny Carson Show"

162 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:34:15pm

Seriously OT, even in a thread that's already derailed.

I never even knew these existed: what a beautiful ride!

163 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:36:56pm

re: #162 ryannon

Seriously OT, even in a thread that's already derailed

Me an' Earl was haulin' chickens
On a flatbed outa Wiggins
And we had spent all night on the uphill side
Of thirty seven miles of hell called Wolf Crick Pass
Which was up on the great divide

And we was sittin' there suckin' toothpicks
And drinkin' Nehis an' onion soup mix
And I says "Earl, let's mail a card to mother
And then send them chickens on down t'other side"
Yeah, lets give them hens a ride

Wolf Crick Pass way up on the great divide
Truckin' on down, the other side

Well Earl put down his bottle
Mashed his foot down on the throttle
And then a couple of boobs, with a thousand cubes
In a 1948 Peterbuilt screamed to life
We woke up the chickens

We roared up off'n that shoulder
Sprayin' pine cones rocks 'n boulders
And put four hundred head of them Road Island Reds
And a couple of burnt out roosters on the line
Look out below...cause here we go

Wolf Crick Pass way up on the great divide
Truckin' on down, the other side

Well we commenced a truckin'
And them hens commenced a cluckin'
Then Earl took out a match, and scratched his pants
And lit up the unused half of a dollar cigar
And took a puff
Says "My ain't this pretty up here"

And I says "Earl this hill can spill us
You better slow down or you gonna kill us
Just make one mistake and it's the pearly gates
For them eighty five crates
Of USDA approved cluckers
You wanna hit second?"

Wolf Crick Pass way up on the great divide
Truckin' on down, the other side

Well Earl grabbed on the shifter
And he stabbed her into fifth gear
And then the chromium plated, fully illuminated
Genuine ac-cessory shift knob
Come right off in his hand
I says "you wana screw that thing back on Earl ?"

He was tryin' to thread it on there
When the fire fell off a his cigar
And dropped on down sorta rolled around
And lit the cuff of Earls pants
And burnt a whole in his sock
Yeah it sorta set him right on fire

I looked on outa the window
An' I started in a countin' phone poles
Goin' by at the rate of four to the seventh power
I put two an' two together
Added twelve, an' carried five
Come up with twenty two thousand telephone poles an hour

I looked at Earl an' his eyes was wide
His lip was curled and his leg was fried
And his hands was froze to the wheel
Like a tongue to a sled in the middle of a blizzard
And I said Earl I'm not the type to complain
But the time has come for me to explain
That if you don't apply some brake real soon
They're gonna have to pick us up with a stick an' a spoon

Well Earl rared back
Cocked his leg
Stepped down as hard as he could on the brake
And the pedal went clear to the floor
And stayed - right there on the floor
Says it's sorta like steppin' on a plum
Well from there on down it just wasn't real pretty
It was hairpin county and switchback city
One of 'em looked like a can full of worms
Another one looked like malaria germs
Right in the middle of the whole damn show
Was a real nice tunnel now wouldn't you know
Sign says clearance to the twelve foot line
But them chickens was stacked to thirteen nine
Well we shot that tunnel at a hundred an' ten
Like gas through a funnel an' eggs through a hen
An' we took that top row of chickens off
Slicker 'n the scum off a Louisiana swamp
Went down an' around an' around an' down
An' we run outta ground at the edge of town
An' bashed on into the side of a feed store
In downtown Pagosa Springs

164 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:37:58pm

re: #158 WindUpBird

it's a shortening of "progressive" that partisans use. Sorta like saying "the democrat party" or "spendocrats" or "rethugs" or Bush Crime Family" or whatever. It's weak kid stuff.

Either way, I don't even really like the term "progressive", I prefer liberal. More honest, more unambiguous.

But but but...Liberal is a dirty word, even worse than Marxist, Communist, or Socialist, just ask Victoria Jackson. She will explain the entire thing to you in a high screechy little girl voice, you can't argue with that, you just can't!

/

165 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:38:00pm

re: #158 WindUpBird

it's a shortening of "progressive" that partisans use. Sorta like saying "the democrat party" or "spendocrats" or "rethugs" or Bush Crime Family" or whatever. It's weak kid stuff.

Either way, I don't even really like the term "progressive", I prefer liberal. More honest, more unambiguous.

It should, however, be noted that it was the left that started using the word progressive, to avoid the negative connotations the word had acquired. It was an act of political rebranding.

166 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:40:06pm

re: #161 NJDhockeyfan

How bout some Johnny?

Chainsaw Ted on "The Johnny Carson Show"


[Video]


I'll see your Chainsaw Ted and raise you The Manualist

167 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:40:14pm

re: #165 Dark_Falcon

It should, however, be noted that it was the left that started using the word progressive, to avoid the negative connotations the word had acquired. It was an act of political rebranding.

This is true.

168 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:41:11pm

re: #157 Cannadian Club Akbar

Did I tell ya'll about the wine box I got? Beautiful. A place near where I work sells wine for about $300 a bottle. The box it came in is wooden and the label on it is "branded" on to it. Wow.

What kind of wine?
You know Lizards..You can buy a pretty nice wine box with a quality wine in it from the Net or local winery..Very nice gift for Birthdays or weddings..
It's a great gift idea for friends and family during the year..
A cookbook and a bottle of fine wine in a classy box..
Listen to me... You will be thought of as a cool stud gift giver.....
/psst..If the gift is for the crazy aunt that has a drinking problem and talks to herself..Stick with the Cookbook and candles...Forget the wine...Well buy the wine..But stick it on the shelve and send her a candle..And a nice card..

169 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:41:32pm

SKorean president orders military on alert

SEOUL, South Korea — South Korea's president ordered the military on alert Tuesday for any moves by rival North Korea after the defense minister said last week's explosion and sinking of a South Korean ship may have been caused by a North Korean mine.

The blast ripped the 1,200-ton ship apart last Friday night during a routine patrol mission near Baengnyeong Island, along the tense maritime border west of the Korean peninsula. Fifty-eight crew members, including the captain, were plucked to safety; 46 remain missing with dim prospects for finding any further survivors.

The Joint Chief of Staff said the exact cause was unclear, and U.S. and South Korean officials said there was no outward indication of North Korean involvement.

However, Defense Minister Kim Tae-young told lawmakers Monday that a floating mine dispatched from North Korea was one of several scenarios for the disaster. "Neither the government nor the defense ministry has ever said there was no possibility of North Korea's involvement," Kim said.

170 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:42:03pm

re: #158 WindUpBird

Meh, I see it as short hand. Like neo-con, dem, rep, and the like. It may be used by partisans, but I see nothing nefarious in the shortening of the word for brevity by itself.

171 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:42:03pm

Just wait until the conservatives are forced to rebrand themselves as "Thrifty" to avoid the negative connotations passed on by the Tea Party.

/ :P

172 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:42:12pm

re: #166 ryannon

Touche'!

173 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:42:28pm

re: #163 SteveC

Well...what can I say? :-)

174 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:43:10pm

re: #168 HoosierHoops

I'll drink the wine and give her the cook book.:)

175 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:43:17pm

re: #173 ryannon

Well...what can I say? :-)

There's a building over there, Earl! :)

176 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:43:34pm

re: #169 NJDhockeyfan

SKorean president orders military on alert

We'll have to wait and see what happened. I can see the Norks having sent a mine towards the ship, and if that's the case things will be at best tense for a long time.

177 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:44:39pm

re: #171 ausador

Just wait until the conservatives are forced to rebrand themselves as "Thrifty" to avoid the negative connotations passed on by the Tea Party.

/ :P

Hell, I just saw "teahadists" in reference to the militia folks.

178 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:44:58pm

re: #168 HoosierHoops

Hey! I'm a crazy Aunt! Love those kids & try to teach 'em (gently) the things they ought to know, but their parent's won't teach them!
And they KNOW they can ask me anything. It can get embarrassing, but I want them to have a safe place to ask!

179 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:45:09pm

re: #168 HoosierHoops

What did you think of Ravenswood wines back when they were still owned by the people who started the company? Personally, I really love anything they put in a bottle, even today.

180 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:45:48pm

re: #179 ryannon

YUM! Ravenswood!

181 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:46:10pm

re: #177 Stanley Sea

Hell, I just saw "teahadists" in reference to the militia folks.

That is certainly a new one to me...sheesh.

182 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:46:38pm

Online Muslim sex shop conforms to Sharia law

CANDID but demure, an online sex shop for Muslims has been launched in the Netherlands to tap into a demand for erotica that does not offend Sharia law.

"We had about 70,000 hits in the first four days," founder Abdelaziz Aouragh said of his site that went online last week and claims to be the world's first erotic webshop for Muslims.

The 29-year-old Dutch national said it targeted married Muslim couples as an alternative to sites "that focus on pornography and the extravagant side of erotica" -- things forbidden in Islam.

The home page of El Asira, which means "Society" in Arabic, is a sober black and grey street with a line down the centre, inviting women to enter on the left and men on the right.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

Once inside, clients can browse in Dutch, Arabic or English through more than a dozen products, mainly massage oils, lubricants and tablets that claim to act as aphrodisiacs.

All ingredients are halal, or "permissible under Islam," said Mr Aouragh, and conspicuously absent are dildos, vibrators and any type of pornography.

"Most of the other products out there have pictures of naked people or foul language -- it was very difficult to find ones that I could use in my business," he said.

Instead, the website shows only photos of boxes, tablets, tubes and bottles -- mainly in pink or blue with the brand's logo, a black flame.

"We have chosen a respectful approach," the site said, proclaiming itself "a novelty in the Islamic world."

183 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:46:39pm

re: #178 Floral Giraffe

Hey! I'm a crazy Aunt! Love those kids & try to teach 'em (gently) the things they ought to know, but their parent's won't teach them!
And they KNOW they can ask me anything. It can get embarrassing, but I want them to have a safe place to ask!

I was smoking weed with my aunt when I was 16. Just sayin'.

184 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:46:59pm

re: #180 Floral Giraffe

YUM! Ravenswood!

Always a good choice. And I believe you're a Californian, are you not?

185 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:47:55pm

I'm back... half the crowd has left, the other half is drinking coffee and sobering up... our Passover is over. I don't drink so I'm one step ahead of them.

Really, no one is drunk "drunk," but most of the guest come from Boulder and Colorado Springs and other far beyond places so a little coffee help before a 1-2 hour drive home.

And hows everyone else's evening going?

186 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:48:41pm

re: #184 ryannon

Always a good choice. And I believe you're a Californian, are you not?

Si! California native, even!

187 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:49:19pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

I'm back... half the crowd has left, the other half is drinking coffee and sobering up... our Passover is over. I don't drink so I'm one step ahead of them.

Really, no one is drunk "drunk," but most of the guest come from Boulder and Colorado Springs and other far beyond places so a little coffee help before a 1-2 hour drive home.

And hows everyone else's evening going?

Glad you had a nice celebration!

188 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:49:41pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

Feeling PassedOver.

189 SteveC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:50:49pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

Really, no one is drunk "drunk," but most of the guest come from Boulder and Colorado Springs and other far beyond places so a little coffee help before a 1-2 hour drive home.

I was in Boulder last year, beautiful town!

190 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:51:03pm

re: #186 Floral Giraffe

Si! California native, even!

One of my favorite places, from North to South.

191 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:51:42pm

re: #171 ausador

Just wait until the conservatives are forced to rebrand themselves as "Thrifty" to avoid the negative connotations passed on by the Tea Party.

/ :P

"Frugs", short for "Frugalists".

192 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:52:43pm

re: #190 ryannon

I'm in the middle. Lost Angeles, about a mile from the coast, so the standard weather prediction in "night & early morning fog, clouds along the coast". Works for 9 months of the year!
Where're you? ISH.

193 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:53:11pm

re: #188 ryannon

Feeling PassedOver.

Sorry, we missed you.

194 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:53:27pm

Curious George's first adventure: Escaping Nazis

Almost every child knows by heart the various predicaments that have befuddled our favorite curious monkey of the beloved picture books treasured for generations.

But few know how close they were to never meeting that rascally primate, Curious George.

The earliest incarnation of Curious George -- when he was created in Paris and still called Fifi -- was smuggled out of Nazi-occupied France in 1940. He traveled by bicycle, train and boat before he reached the United States and was given a more American name.

The Illinois Holocaust Museum & Education Center's new traveling exhibition -- "The Wartime Escape: Margret and H.A. Rey's Journey from France" -- documents how the husband and wife creators of Curious George survived a deadly, terrifying time.

195 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:53:52pm

re: #191 Slumbering Behemoth

Do the frug?

196 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:54:53pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

I'm back... half the crowd has left, the other half is drinking coffee and sobering up... our Passover is over. I don't drink so I'm one step ahead of them.

Really, no one is drunk "drunk," but most of the guest come from Boulder and Colorado Springs and other far beyond places so a little coffee help before a 1-2 hour drive home.

And hows everyone else's evening going?

It's late here but I'm still in good spirits. I've got lots to do this week and the activity gives me hope. I don't know how this week will end, but the upside outweighs the downside by a good margin.

197 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:56:40pm

re: #186 Floral Giraffe

Si! California native, even!


California Native also!
/We need a support group
*wink*

198 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:57:51pm

re: #196 Dark_Falcon

Best wishes for your week, in every way. Especially in ways that you haven't thought of. May your surprises be huge, fabulous & unexpected!

199 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:58:22pm

re: #192 Floral Giraffe

I'm in the middle. Lost Angeles, about a mile from the coast, so the standard weather prediction in "night & early morning fog, clouds along the coast". Works for 9 months of the year!
Where're you? ISH.

I'm wishing I was about a mile West from you, where Dudley Avenue dead-ends onto the beach in Venice. My favorite grubby little haunted hotel, the Cadillac, and that wonderful end-of-the-world feeling you get when everything empties out along the beach-front at about ten or eleven in the evening....

Oh yeah, I'm in Paris.

200 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:59:11pm

re: #198 Floral Giraffe

Best wishes for your week, in every way. Especially in ways that you haven't thought of. May your surprises be huge, fabulous & unexpected!

Thank you.

201 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 8:59:42pm

Out for the night. I have the morning shift.:)

202 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:00:13pm

re: #189 SteveC

I was in Boulder last year, beautiful town!

A little too "yuppie" for me. But yes, the town itself is unique. The people, no so much, for me that is.

Go figure the "makeup" of our Passover. Fourteen people, only maybe six Jews, most all of us atheists, using a Haggadah that mentions Wounded Knee, Ludlow and 9/11 and so on, all people in attendance are Zionists, screaming liberals to extreme wingnuts, this is one quite interesting Passover every year.

Next year in Jerusalem.

203 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:00:38pm

re: #196 Dark_Falcon

It's late here but I'm still in good spirits. I've got lots to do this week and the activity gives me hope. I don't know how this week will end, but the upside outweighs the downside by a good margin.

Every day you can keep your two legs above ground is a good day.

205 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:02:31pm

re: #195 Floral Giraffe

Frugalist propaganda, I tells ya!

206 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:03:50pm

re: #196 Dark_Falcon

I haven't been following lately, how is your employment situation?

207 bratwurst  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:03:50pm

re: #204 The Sanity Inspector


They have a new record that is a Ingmar Bergman-themed musical, but it only seems to be on vinyl thus far.

208 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:05:26pm

re: #199 ryannon

There is a Tom Waitts song, the chorus of which is "Late night and early morning low clouds" IIRC

209 freetoken  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:05:52pm

Junkies and junk-food addicts share craving mechanism

Think I'll head to the store and buy some chocolate...

210 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:06:10pm

re: #199 ryannon

Eww, Venice. I'm a couple of miles south of there. Into the "family zone belt". Much cleaner & frendlier.
Paris was a nice place to visit, I could live there.

211 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:06:40pm

re: #190 ryannon

It is an amazing State; where I live some of the trees are 300 feet tall.

212 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:07:03pm

re: #205 Slumbering Behemoth

Cheap bastid!

213 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:07:24pm

Berlin Jews warn of 'alarming' rise in anti-Semitic violence

Germany's Jewish community on Monday warned of an "alarming" rise in anti-Semitic violence by Arab and Turkish immigrants after Berlin police reported two unrelated attacks against Jews over the weekend.

"There's an urgent need to fight the roots of anti-Semitism, especially coming from young Turks and Arabs, and to effectively counter it," the Jewish Community in Berlin said in a statement.

"That the violence from the immigrant community is being increasingly aimed at Jews or people they assume are Jews is alarming," it added.

214 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:07:34pm

re: #179 ryannon

What did you think of Ravenswood wines back when they were still owned by the people who started the company? Personally, I really love anything they put in a bottle, even today.

Do you think I'm ruined? Growing up in Napa Valley and being able to drink at any winery for free 7 days a week? If you and friends are bored just drive and hit about 20 wineries...Mix em up..You got hundreds to pick from...
In my hometown it's a human right to have access to free wine for everyone..100% Coverage!
/ok it's not 100% coverage in the valley.. It's more like 97% coverage..
The are always 3% of the population pouring the wine..They have to remain sober...But everybody gets to party on free wine tastings..
It's like grape socialism ..
/

215 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:07:59pm

re: #211 Ojoe

I love love love visiting the Sequoias.
They are amazing!

216 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:08:14pm

re: #206 Slumbering Behemoth

I haven't been following lately, how is your employment situation?

Still working leads but two prospects have progressed a long ways. I feel relatively confident that I can get an offer. Hopefully, it'll be a job I want. But if it's even decent, I'm going to take it.

217 wee fury  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:09:08pm

Mighty Thor theme song

218 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:09:30pm

re: #215 Floral Giraffe

I forget how they overcome the hydrostatic pressure to get water to the top branches but they have some clever trick to avoid the approximately 10 atmospheres of pressure it would otherwise require.

219 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:09:51pm

re: #210 Floral Giraffe

Eww, Venice. I'm a couple of miles south of there. Into the "family zone belt". Much cleaner & frendlier.
Paris was a nice place to visit, I could live there.


It's a demanding place, but in ways most (sand) people wouldn't expect.

As for Venice, I've always liked it's Twilight Zone atmosphere and gritty edge.

220 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:10:15pm

re: #216 Dark_Falcon

BIL, hasn't worked ( financial industry) for over 3 years, got 2 job offers today! Has to pick, and has 3 other "strong interviews" outstanding. IT'S A GOOD SIGN!

Congratulations on the progress, DF!

221 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:10:21pm

re: #204 The Sanity Inspector

I Can't Believe That You would Fall For All The Crap In This Song

I like how the dude with the glasses has a mic parked in front of him half the time, and never so much as opens his mouth. Weird.

222 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:12:03pm

re: #211 Ojoe

It is an amazing State; where I live some of the trees are 300 feet tall.

I'm worried about those fire-scarred gullies and canyons in the TowerCam shot of a few hours ago - it looks like they could lose their topsoil if some new growth doesn't replace what was burnt off.

223 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:12:03pm

re: #212 Floral Giraffe

I use a Wahl to cut my own hair, what can I say. :)

224 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:12:10pm

Post Office schedules cancellation of Saturday Delivery in about a Year.
Heard it on the news, just now.
It's about time!
What do YOU think?

225 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:13:20pm

re: #219 ryannon

PIMF: sane people

226 wee fury  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:13:47pm

re: #224 Floral Giraffe

Post Office schedules cancellation of Saturday Delivery in about a Year.
Heard it on the news, just now.
It's about time!
What do YOU think?

Good. At last -- no more weekends ruined by bills coming in the mail.

227 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:13:50pm

re: #224 Floral Giraffe

Post Office schedules cancellation of Saturday Delivery in about a Year.
Heard it on the news, just now.
It's about time!
What do YOU think?

I don't like it!
:P

Good, er, morning?

228 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:13:59pm

re: #222 ryannon

It is pretty scruffy in the San Gabriel Mountains and there is not much topsoil to begin with, and fire is part of the natural cycle, and there are plants in the succession whose job it is to sprout right away after the fires, also.

Not to worry. (More or less).

229 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:15:40pm

re: #216 Dark_Falcon

Best of luck to you. Same goes for Walter, for that matter, and anyone else in a tight spot.

230 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:16:03pm

re: #216 Dark_Falcon

Still working leads but two prospects have progressed a long ways. I feel relatively confident that I can get an offer. Hopefully, it'll be a job I want. But if it's even decent, I'm going to take it.

Awesome.

231 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:16:04pm

re: #227 Varek Raith

Will you pay my bills, if I send them to you?
Pretty please?
(Not holding my breath, but you don't know, if you don't ask!)
OK, big fantasy!

232 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:16:49pm

re: #203 Walter L. Newton

Every day you can keep your two legs above ground is a good day.

My dad says that any day that he's looking down at the daffodils instead of up at them, it's a good day.

233 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:17:26pm

re: #231 Floral Giraffe

Will you pay my bills, if I send them to you?
Pretty please?
(Not holding my breath, but you don't know, if you don't ask!)
OK, big fantasy!

No canz dos...:P
Now I won't get my netflix movies on Saturdays...:(

234 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:17:32pm

re: #220 Floral Giraffe

BIL, hasn't worked ( financial industry) for over 3 years, got 2 job offers today! Has to pick, and has 3 other "strong interviews" outstanding. IT'S A GOOD SIGN!

Congratulations on the progress, DF!

Thanks. I'm not out of the woods yet, but I may have lucked into a hiring boom. And I actually have to thank President Obama for something: I found out on Saturday that if I need to use COBRA for insurance, I'll be able to get it for much less than I though thanks to a law he signed last year. That's something of a relief.

235 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:17:43pm

re: #217 wee fury

Mighty Thor theme song

[Video]

How could they allow such satanic indoctrination to be aired on television back in those days?
/

236 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:18:04pm

re: #232 The Sanity Inspector

My dad says that any day that he's looking down at the daffodils instead of up at them, it's a good day.

And on that note...
G'night all.
May you be blessed in suprising ways, and pleasant ones!
SOON!

237 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:18:26pm

re: #224 Floral Giraffe

Post Office schedules cancellation of Saturday Delivery in about a Year.
Heard it on the news, just now.
It's about time!
What do YOU think?


Hey Floral...The final four is coming here this weekend.. Just a ton of free Concerts in Indy..I'm going to see Daughty and the Goo Goo Dolls...But everyone that is anyone is coming here this weekend.. and it's all free...
The temp is going to be in the upper 70's all weekend and a local college is playing..This place is going nuts....
Free Music Floral..Free Music..*Wink*

238 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:19:42pm

re: #237 HoosierHoops

Dang party animal, that you are.
Don't forget the fun for Winston, OK?
Sleepytime for me NOW!
((HH))

239 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:20:36pm

re: #233 Varek Raith

Say, you're into anime, correct? Did you hear about that comment from the NH state rep. recently?

240 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:21:15pm

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

Say, you're into anime, correct? Did you hear about that comment from the NH state rep. recently?

Yes, and no on the comment.

241 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:21:19pm

re: #221 Slumbering Behemoth

I like how the dude with the glasses has a mic parked in front of him half the time, and never so much as opens his mouth. Weird.

You may remember him. He was the bandleader in this old Wang Chung video:

242 wee fury  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:21:38pm

re: #235 Slumbering Behemoth

How could they allow such satanic indoctrination to be aired on television back in those days?
/

heh. Mighty Thor was especially loved in Minn-a-so-da.

243 Racer X  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:22:02pm

re: #224 Floral Giraffe

Post Office schedules cancellation of Saturday Delivery in about a Year.
Heard it on the news, just now.
It's about time!
What do YOU think?

When it absolutely, positively, has to be there - FedEx.

244 windsagio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:22:31pm

re: #243 Racer X

Only air. Fedex ground is terrible.

(used to be RPS)

245 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:23:01pm

re: #218 Ojoe

I forget how they overcome the hydrostatic pressure to get water to the top branches but they have some clever trick to avoid the approximately 10 atmospheres of pressure it would otherwise require.

That would be Osmosis, which is really quite a simple but still clever operation of cell membranes.

[Link: www.purchon.com...]

246 windsagio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:23:15pm

re: #243 Racer X

Also the USPS is my go to for most things, anyways. They've never let me down that I can think of.

The problem is that nobody relaly writes letters anymore, or buys magazines :P

247 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:23:19pm

re: #165 Dark_Falcon

It should, however, be noted that it was the left that started using the word progressive, to avoid the negative connotations the word had acquired. It was an act of political rebranding.

And an idiotic move, at that. It muddled the meaning of both progressive and liberal, since at heart, they're two different things.

I've always just claimed the mantle of liberal. If I'm going to be keelhauled for my opinions, I'd rather have the right insults thrown at me for them.

248 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:23:35pm

re: #232 The Sanity Inspector

My dad says that any day that he's looking down at the daffodils instead of up at them, it's a good day.

Yep.

249 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:23:52pm

re: #244 windsagio

UPS is good on ground & they were shipping out , for free to Haiti, a lot of crutches and prosthetics that the local folks here collected, so kudos to them.

250 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:23:57pm

re: #240 Varek Raith

Of course, it was only a joke. Kinda like Rush's shtick is only satire.

251 windsagio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:24:22pm

re: #247 Lidane

The progressive thing is a part of the 'wimp factor' anyways.

It goes back to the time that the Left was so used to being beaten up it was easier to just cede all their territory :P

252 windsagio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:25:08pm

re: #250 Slumbering Behemoth

That's actually prett yfunny, if you're meanspirited like me >>

253 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:26:30pm

re: #245 ausador

Cool. Thanks.

254 Digital Display  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:27:18pm

re: #238 Floral Giraffe

Dang party animal, that you are.
Don't forget the fun for Winston, OK?
Sleepytime for me NOW!
((HH))


Weet Dreams..
I'm watching pre season baseball ..Az vs. SD.. 1-8 It's springtime!
Boy that was a long winter...

255 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:27:33pm

re: #223 Slumbering Behemoth

I use a Wahl to cut my own hair, what can I say. :)

Since I am completely bald now except for the "Monk fringe" from just above my ears and around the back of my head, I do too. I wear a beard so my beard trimmer is also used to keep the remnants of my hair in line. I keep my head down to "stubble" length and the beard trimmed to about a half inch.

256 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:28:45pm

re: #250 Slumbering Behemoth

Of course, it was only a joke. Kinda like Rush's shtick is only satire.

Good gravy... What a putz.

257 windsagio  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:29:19pm

last thing from me about the progressive/liberal thing. (or 2 things, then I'm off to work)

1) I've always preferred 'lefty', its weirdly charming.

2) Don't doubt that people are using 'prog' as a slur, well, because they are :P

258 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:29:27pm

re: #247 Lidane

And an idiotic move, at that. It muddled the meaning of both progressive and liberal, since at heart, they're two different things.

I've always just claimed the mantle of liberal. If I'm going to be keelhauled for my opinions, I'd rather have the right insults thrown at me for them.

Yes, but you're not a politician. Given their imperatives, it makes more sense for them to rebrand instead of fighting to change how a word is seen.

259 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:29:59pm

re: #252 windsagio

That's actually prett yfunny, if you're meanspirited like me >>

Heh, I can only imagine what the channers are going to send him!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

260 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:31:06pm

re: #252 windsagio

When you're at the bar talking with stupid drunks, maybe. But from an elected official? I'm not even into anime, and I thought that was a bit douchey.

261 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:33:03pm

re: #258 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but you're not a politician. Given their imperatives, it makes more sense for them to rebrand instead of fighting to change how a word is seen.

The problem is, they allowed other people (namely, the right) to decide for them what liberal meant, and they took the coward's way out by trying to rebrand. It was pathetic and weak, IMO.

I've always felt they should push back and reclaim the word liberal instead of letting it become a dirty word, but I know it won't happen. Doesn't mean I can't just claim the word for myself, you know?

262 Racer X  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:33:11pm

Communist Theme Park


"There are still many in Lithuania who are sick with Soviet nostalgia... so we have started this show to help them recover."

263 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:34:04pm

Shop owner defends sale of 'Holocaust' soap

The owner of a Montreal collectibles shop is defending his decision to sell a bar of soap he advertises as being made of the fat of Holocaust victims.

Jewish groups in Montreal are denouncing the shop in the city's Plateau-Mont-Royal neighbourhood where the beige bar of soap is displayed.

The soap is inscribed with a swastika and displayed in a glass case with a card that says "Poland 1940."

264 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:35:20pm

re: #255 ausador

Not far behind you on that. In a year or so, I will have to make a decision. The "Patrick Stewart" or the "Bruce Willis". I will most assuredly go with the "Bruce Willis", as I already look a bit like him. I have to admit, though, that my eyes are much prettier than his.

265 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:35:21pm

re: #263 NJDhockeyfan

Shop owner defends sale of 'Holocaust' soap

Any comment from Ann Coulter?

266 Racer X  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:35:33pm

Increasing Number Of Parents Opting To Have Children School-Homed

WASHINGTON—According to a report released Monday by the U.S. Department of Education, an increasing number of American parents are choosing to have their children raised at school rather than at home.

267 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:37:18pm

re: #266 Racer X

Increasing Number Of Parents Opting To Have Children School-Homed

WASHINGTON—According to a report released Monday by the U.S. Department of Education, an increasing number of American parents are choosing to have their children raised at school rather than at home.

Lol, your post confused the hell out of me, then, I realized it was the Onion...
XD

268 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:37:18pm

re: #263 NJDhockeyfan

Shop owner defends sale of 'Holocaust' soap

Weird. The shop owner is 73 and a "Spanish born Jew" according to the article.

269 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:37:27pm

re: #261 Lidane

The problem is, they allowed other people (namely, the right) to decide for them what liberal meant, and they took the coward's way out by trying to rebrand. It was pathetic and weak, IMO.

I've always felt they should push back and reclaim the word liberal instead of letting it become a dirty word, but I know it won't happen. Doesn't mean I can't just claim the word for myself, you know?

Of course they took the easy way out, that's how Politicos always do it. Standing and fighting means you are getting hit by the other side's negative ads and commentators. Once a politician is stuck fighting that battle, he has often already lost. The other side can simply bang away with its message and the public will hear it often enough, associate it with what they were already concerned about, and turn on the man standing on principle. I don't like that it works like that, but it does.

270 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:38:12pm

re: #263 NJDhockeyfan

Shop owner defends sale of 'Holocaust' soap

Now, that's seriously fucked-up.

271 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:38:44pm

Nighty night my friends. I hope everyone has a great Tuesday!

272 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:38:50pm

re: #270 ryannon

Now, that's seriously fucked-up.

Beyond.
What the hell is wrong with people???

273 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:39:29pm

re: #272 Varek Raith

Beyond.
What the hell is wrong with people???

A lot of them are seriously fucked-up.

274 bratwurst  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:39:30pm

re: #241 The Sanity Inspector

Am I the only guy you know who has seen both Sparks and Wang Chung live?

275 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:40:21pm

I'm glad I didn't know what I know now during my younger years. At the time as all young people I thought I knew everything. At the time, the one thing I didn't really grasp was man's inhumanity to man.

276 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:40:33pm

re: #170 Slumbering Behemoth

Meh, I see it as short hand. Like neo-con, dem, rep, and the like. It may be used by partisans, but I see nothing nefarious in the shortening of the word for brevity by itself.

yeah, but the only time I see it is when it's used by right-wing sites. I don't see liberals using the term themselves, where they do use the term "Dem".

277 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:41:00pm

re: #261 Lidane

Shit, Lidane, how do you think I feel. I'm fighting a seemingly losing battle to maintain the meaning of the word "conservative" from being re-defined by the left, the right, the center, the dominionists, the revanchists, the Teahadis, the... list goes on and on.

278 ryannon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:42:07pm

re: #275 Gus 802

I'm glad I didn't know what I know now during my younger years. At the time as all young people I thought I knew everything. At the time, the one thing I didn't really grasp was man's inhumanity to man.

I think that most people move too fast to see what's really going on - and especially when they're young. I know I did.

279 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:42:20pm

re: #277 Slumbering Behemoth

Shit, Lidane, how do you think I feel. I'm fighting a seemingly losing battle to maintain the meaning of the word "conservative" from being re-defined by the left, the right, the center, the dominionists, the revanchists, the Teahadis, the... list goes on and on.

Teahadis???

Stealing that!

280 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:42:22pm

Night all...

281 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:42:44pm

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

Night all...

Night, Walter!

282 Racer X  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:42:45pm

re: #277 Slumbering Behemoth

Shit, Lidane, how do you think I feel. I'm fighting a seemingly losing battle to maintain the meaning of the word "conservative" from being re-defined by the left, the right, the center, the dominionists, the revanchists, the Teahadis, the... list goes on and on.

This guy seems like a level headed conservative.

283 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:42:59pm

Instapundit joins Crazy Pam in defending antisemitic militias plotting mass murder....

BRIAN DOHERTY looks at the Huttaree militia indictments and isn’t especially impressed. “From my read, even taking every word in it as gospel, it sounds like these guys were angry loudmouths who fantasized too much to someone who turned out to be a federal informant or agent, but who they thought was a potential comrade who might help them obtain some explosives.” Meanwhile, as he surveys the reaction I’m glad to see him note that I don’t “generally make much common cause with Christian apocalyptic warriors in the woods.” That’s never been much of a theme here at InstaPundit, but with Balloon Juice looking out for their procedural rights, I’m sure those militiamen will be okay. And I’m sure top lawyers from top law firms on Wall Street and K street will be lining up to provide the Huttaree militia with a pro bono defense, too.

For contrast: this has been on the recommended list at DKos all day...
We denounce the threats made against Rep. Eric Cantor


I denounce the threats made against Rep. Eric Cantor and his family, unequivocally. I invite you to join me.
....
If you read the substance of the complaint, there is no doubt at all that this man is threatening Rep. Cantor and his family, in some of the vilest, most anti-Semitic language possible.

It's a time of great political disagreement in our country, and I disagree with Eric Cantor most of the time. But there is no excuse, none, for threats of violence like this. It's TERRORISM, pure and simple.

I invite you to join me in denouncing this, as a community, unequivocally and without hesitation.

284 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:44:11pm

re: #279 Varek Raith

Teahadis???

Stealing that!

Allahu Beckbar!

/My bad.

/

285 Racer X  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:45:12pm

re: #279 Varek Raith

Teahadis???

Stealing that!

Goat Baggers

286 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:45:30pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

Instapundit joins Crazy Pam in defending antisemitic militias plotting mass murder...

My only question would be...

What fer?

287 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:48:26pm
288 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:48:46pm

re: #286 Gus 802

My only question would be...

What fer?

It's instinct, I don't think they can help it. Even though the militia hates Jews and was planning a mass murder of police officers, the ODS inflicted still see it as Obama cracking down on dissenting voices. They want Obama to fail even if that means he fails at stopping the murder of police officers and Jews.

289 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:49:45pm

re: #277 Slumbering Behemoth

Shit, Lidane, how do you think I feel. I'm fighting a seemingly losing battle to maintain the meaning of the word "conservative" from being re-defined by the left, the right, the center, the dominionists, the revanchists, the Teahadis, the... list goes on and on.

I can't say I envy you at all, especially with the nirthers and Teabaggers and all their batshit antics these days. There's also the idiot trifecta of Palin, Bachmann, and Beck inducing headaches for you guys on a near daily basis.

I'm totally stealing Teahadis, BTW. That's a great word.

290 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:49:54pm

re: #283 Killgore Trout

Instapundit joins Crazy Pam in defending antisemitic militias plotting mass murder...

Gee, I wonder if he'd be singing the same tune if they weren't Christian...

My amazing powers of clairvoyance tell me, no.

291 Racer X  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:50:49pm
292 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:52:31pm

re: #288 Killgore Trout

It's instinct, I don't think they can help it. Even though the militia hates Jews and was planning a mass murder of police officers, the ODS inflicted still see it as Obama cracking down on dissenting voices. They want Obama to fail even if that means he fails at stopping the murder of police officers and Jews.

Glenn Reynolds showed where he was coming from during that whole Obama-Photoshop shining the shoes of Sarah Palin incident whereupon the decided it wasn't racist. His judgment was already in question prior to that. He continues to reach deeper and deeper into the mud for cynical political reasons. Although many word argue that it isn't for cynical reasons. It's because this is who he is. So in this case he is merely sharing an affinity for the Hutaree clan.

293 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:54:00pm

re: #290 Varek Raith

My amazing powers of clairvoyance

Magic 8-Ball?

294 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:54:32pm

re: #263 NJDhockeyfan

Shop owner defends sale of 'Holocaust' soap

So does that mean that the time is finally ripe for me to put my authentic 1944 auschwitz human skin lamp shade up for sale on E-bay? After all what does the suffering and deaths of millions mean against the chance for me to make money off of their corpses?

/WTF? If I lived there I would bust his damn window and steal/destroy the thing rather than to let him sell it. (Note: this would not be my actual first inclination towards response to this, but Charles has this silly rule about posting violent threats...sigh.)

295 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:54:46pm

re: #276 windupbird

yeah, but the only time I see it is when it's used by right-wing sites. I don't see liberals using the term themselves, where they do use the term "Dem".

Meh, again. I just don't see a reason to get bent out of shape over an abbreviation. It's not like someone is calling you a secularist. :)

296 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:55:12pm

re: #121 MandyManners

Keep it up and you will be Cato's "darling".

You should know by now that no one could ever replace you in my heart, Mandy.

297 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:55:51pm

Good Evening, Lizards! Anything important and/or funny happen while I was out?

298 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:55:51pm

re: #293 Lidane

Magic 8-Ball?

Blast! My secret's out...

BBL.
:)

299 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:55:59pm

re: #279 Varek Raith

Feel free. I stole it myself, from one of those gawt-damned proggy sites, I think.

300 lostlakehiker  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:56:50pm

re: #160 The Sanity Inspector

In 2002, there was a spasm of communal violence in the Indian state of Gujarat, mostly ultra-nationalist Hindus massacring Muslims. A documentary maker named Rakesh Sharma interviewed people there; this is the final ten minutes of the film. Just so we can know that there are times when "they" really are the victims...


[Video]

In retaliation for Muslims burning a train full of Hindus. Women and children too, as usual.

301 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:58:40pm

re: #282 Racer X

Oh, you are evil. Congrats to you for finding such an obscure and absurd piece.

302 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 9:59:52pm

Glenn Reynolds has the warm fuzzies for the Hutaree clan:

I don’t “generally make much common cause with Christian apocalyptic warriors in the woods.”

That’s never been much of a theme here at InstaPundit, but with Balloon Juice looking out for their procedural rights, I’m sure those militiamen will be okay.

And I’m sure top lawyers from top law firms on Wall Street and K street will be lining up to provide the Huttaree [sic] militia with a pro bono defense, too.

Quack.

303 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:01:04pm

re: #302 Gus 802

Glenn Reynolds has the warm fuzzies for the Hutaree clan:

Quack.

Yep.

And no, Wall Street doesn't need to provide these seditionists with a defense: They asked for free Federal representation.

304 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:01:40pm

re: #303 Dante41

Yep.

And no, Wall Street doesn't need to provide these seditionists with a defense: They asked for free Federal representation.

Socialist attorneys!

Irony.

/

305 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:03:20pm

re: #304 Gus 802

Socialist attorneys!

Irony.

/

Funny how they suddenly don't have a problem with it when they got caught.

306 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:05:28pm

re: #305 Dante41

Funny how they suddenly don't have a problem with it when they got caught.

Indeed. Which means they'll more then likely wind up with a liberal public defender. Since most public defenders are liberals. It's happened before of course.

307 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:05:33pm

re: #302 Gus 802

Glenn Reynolds has the warm fuzzies for the Hutaree clan:

Quack.

It's still amazing to me. We've been seeing this for about a year already and I still can't comprehend that the Koskidz show more class and common sense than prominent right wing bloggers. I still haven't fully adjusted to it.

308 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:07:14pm

re: #303 Dante41

Yep.

And no, Wall Street doesn't need to provide these seditionists with a defense: They asked for free Federal representation.

So the same people who wanted to kill police officers and then bomb the funerals have asked the government they were aiming to overthrow for legal counsel?

Fucking rubes. What, they couldn't find a nutjob lawyer willing to take their case for free?

309 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:08:24pm

re: #307 Killgore Trout

It's still amazing to me. We've been seeing this for about a year already and I still can't comprehend that the Koskidz show more class and common sense than prominent right wing bloggers. I still haven't fully adjusted to it.

The right wing bloggers mixed and mingled with the crazies while the Kos shipped the worst of theirs off to DU.

310 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:09:04pm

re: #307 Killgore Trout

It's blowing my mind as well. I think a lot of it comes from Animal Farm Ideologues. Four legs are good, two legs are bad, and there isn't a fraction of room for any nuance or gray areas.

311 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:09:23pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

The right wing bloggers mixed and mingled with the crazies while the Kos shipped the worst of theirs off to DU.

Actually, I'd say they shipped their fanatics off to DU, and their Moonbats off to HP.

312 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:10:40pm

re: #307 Killgore Trout

It's still amazing to me. We've been seeing this for about a year already and I still can't comprehend that the Koskidz show more class and common sense than prominent right wing bloggers. I still haven't fully adjusted to it.

Could be a matter of who's in power and who's not in power. When the GOP was in control Reynolds was whistling a happy tune to himself. While KOS was the reverse. It may flip as control is transferred between parties. Markos was proactive in cleaning up DKOS's act though over the years.

Given the history I will admit though that I've never seen anything like this in all my years. That includes crazies from all walks of life. But even during the Bush years it wasn't like this on a daily basis which it seems to be today.

313 Racer X  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:12:28pm

I'm looking to buy a backyard composter - any suggestions?

314 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:13:17pm

re: #311 Dante41

Actually, I'd say they shipped their fanatics off to DU, and their Moonbats off to HP.

DU used to get seriously strange. I still can't stomach Indymedia. I go there and I actually get a relapse of rage from time to time.

315 Querent  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:14:18pm

re: #15 Cato the Elder


You can say whatever you like about the Pope, but please bugger off with that canard about his being a Nazi. Or just go fuck a duck.

Upding for **** a duck, that's the first time i've heard that since College.

316 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:15:01pm

re: #308 Lidane

So the same people who wanted to kill police officers and then bomb the funerals have asked the government they were aiming to overthrow for legal counsel?

Fucking rubes. What, they couldn't find a nutjob lawyer willing to take their case for free?

Just because they were trying to overthrow the government doesn't mean that they won't suck off the government teat if it is easy for them.

And they know that they'd get better quality representation by using a fed attorney that with some backwoods nutjob.

317 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:15:16pm

re: #311 Dante41

Actually, I'd say they shipped their fanatics off to DU, and their Moonbats off to HP.

That also works, since the HuffPo kept some of their moonbats (especially on medical matters) but did rid itself of the outright haters. The removal of the worst haters from both the Kos and the HuffPo cause both sites to improve notably.

318 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:16:24pm

Talking about it is one thing...

Billy bob: "So how can we off a bunch of them there nazi-facist cops?"

Progressing to planning...

Billy bob: "So we kill one and then his buddies will show up by the hundreds for the funeral, we'll off them there."

Moving on to Conspiracy...

Billy bob: This is the cop we are going to kill, and here is how we are going to kill his buddies, I have the bomb plans from the internet and you, you, and you are going to get the stuff and build the bombs for us.

Daydreaming it wasn't, they had a plan, across multiple state lines yet, I'm not sure how you could further entice the Feds to bust you other than wearing an Osama Bin Laden costume while doing it.

/The idiots richly deserve the wimpy slap on the wrist sentences they will probably get in Federal court.

319 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:17:14pm

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

That also works, since the HuffPo kept some of their moonbats (especially on medical matters) but did rid itself of the outright haters. The removal of the worst haters from both the Kos and the HuffPo cause both sites to improve notably.

Yep. I wouldn't have thought I'd be saying this a few years earlier, but Kos is actually the saner one. Say what you want about their politics, but they don't tolerate any conspiracy theory bullshit.

320 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:17:48pm

re: #313 Racer X

I'm looking to buy a backyard composter - any suggestions?

It depends. Do you have trees that generate a lot of leaves?

321 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:20:02pm

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

That also works, since the HuffPo kept some of their moonbats (especially on medical matters) but did rid itself of the outright haters. The removal of the worst haters from both the Kos and the HuffPo cause both sites to improve notably.

I see conservative commentators at HuffPo all the time. Their stance on vaccinations and homeopathy is rather strange. I'd say most of the commentators are moderate run of the mill liberals.

322 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:20:09pm

re: #312 Gus 802

Could be a matter of who's in power and who's not in power.

Animal Farm Ideologues. When the opposition party is in power, there is no conspiracy theory too far fetched for them to believe. When their favored party is in power, even the absolute, documented truth about any misstep must be deflected.

I've seen it during the Clinton admin., the Bush admin, and now this one. The one and only piece of bitter credit I will ever give to senoJ xelA is that he is bat shit insane regardless of which party is in power.

323 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:21:13pm

Radical food fascist oppresses and indoctrinates youth.....
Jamie Oliver's school dinners shown to have improved academic results


The proportion of 11-year-olds in Greenwich, south London, who did well in English and science rose after Oliver swept "turkey twizzlers" and chicken dinosaurs off canteen menus in favour of creamy coconut fish and Mexican bean wraps, according to a study of results in the south east London borough.

The number of "authorised absences" — which are generally due to illness – fell by 15% in the wake of his 2004 Feed Me Better campaign, brought into the nation's sitting rooms via the Channel 4 series Jamie's School Dinners.

324 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:21:31pm

re: #322 Slumbering Behemoth

Animal Farm Ideologues. When the opposition party is in power, there is no conspiracy theory too far fetched for them to believe. When their favored party is in power, even the absolute, documented truth about any misstep must be deflected.

I've seen it during the Clinton admin., the Bush admin, and now this one. The one and only piece of bitter credit I will ever give to senoJ xelA is that he is bat shit insane regardless of which party is in power.

Oh God. Alex Jones. Truthers. Slowly I turn. Step by step. Inch by inch...

325 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:23:12pm

re: #321 Gus 802

I see conservative commentators at HuffPo all the time. Their stance on vaccinations and homeopathy is rather strange. I'd say most of the commentators are moderate run of the mill liberals.

I would not agree about their leaning entirely, but it is completely accurate to say that the site has cleaned up a great deal, and some of its articles are readable now, being more concerned with the story instead of attacks.

326 Racer X  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:23:26pm

re: #320 Dante41

It depends. Do you have trees that generate a lot of leaves?

No but my neighbor does. I'm constantly cleaning up leaves and fishing them out of the pool.

327 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:24:30pm

re: #323 Killgore Trout

I am predisposed to like his new show because:

1) Healthy food is important to me
2) He looks a great deal like a recently deceased friend of mine

328 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:01pm

re: #326 Racer X

No but my neighbor does. I'm constantly cleaning up leaves and fishing them out of the pool.

In that case, ask him if you can rake his leaves. Then, just go the cheapest and natural route: get some plastic fencing, and pour the leaves in there. You can add produce leavings to the top of the compost heap whenever. I wouldn't use the leaves from your pool, but the others should work.

It sounds silly, but you'll get the best results.

329 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:39pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

The right wing bloggers mixed and mingled with the crazies while the Kos shipped the worst of theirs off to DU.

The 2008 primaries had a fair bit to do with that. Some of the really batshit folks on the left had some epic meltdowns when their ODS triggered back then, and Markos wasn't having any of it. There was a *huge* rift over at Kos then, with some folks going over to TalkLeft, others to DU, and others to OpenLeft, and all of them trashing Markos, even to this day.

It was about that time that I looked at the left-wing blogs and threw my hands up in frustration. I haven't gone back since, except to read the occasional diary from Kos. And the closest to a liberal blog I get to these days is Balloon Juice, because I love their snark. Heh.

330 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:39pm

I'm fading so I'm going to pack it in. Goodnight, all.

331 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:27:50pm

re: #324 Gus 802

Much of the Obama Conspiracies we hear now are very much in rhythm with Clinton Conspiracies back in the day. A good portion of both can be sourced back to senoJ and the like.

332 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:28:08pm

re: #325 Dark_Falcon

I would not agree about their leaning entirely, but it is completely accurate to say that the site has cleaned up a great deal, and some of its articles are readable now, being more concerned with the story instead of attacks.

Right. You're supposed to let the story write itself. It's also best not to inject oneself into the story and thus become a part of the news. I've seen that happen time and time again. I tend to call them moderate because I've ventured into Indymedia and similar sites...

And I see you're leaving now so good night DF.

333 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:29:14pm

re: #330 Dark_Falcon

I'm fading so I'm going to pack it in. Goodnight, all.

Night, DF.

334 Racer X  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:31:46pm

re: #328 Dante41

In that case, ask him if you can rake his leaves. Then, just go the cheapest and natural route: get some plastic fencing, and pour the leaves in there. You can add produce leavings to the top of the compost heap whenever. I wouldn't use the leaves from your pool, but the others should work.

It sounds silly, but you'll get the best results.

Thanks!

I found a good resource here in L.A.

Composting Bins

335 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:33:18pm

re: #331 Slumbering Behemoth

Much of the Obama Conspiracies we hear now are very much in rhythm with Clinton Conspiracies back in the day. A good portion of both can be sourced back to senoJ and the like.

That's some racket Jones has. He went from being the darling of the underground pseudo left to being the darling of the underground pseudo right. I still scratch my head about it. You know, during the height of the war on terror we all hated Jones with all of our guts. Now, he's linked at Drudge and featured on Fox News and even Limbaugh quoted him once. It's like politics can swing from right to left but the conspiracies and anti-government stances remain static.

336 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:36:07pm

re: #322 Slumbering Behemoth

Animal Farm Ideologues. When the opposition party is in power, there is no conspiracy theory too far fetched for them to believe. When their favored party is in power, even the absolute, documented truth about any misstep must be deflected.

I've seen it during the Clinton admin., the Bush admin, and now this one. The one and only piece of bitter credit I will ever give to senoJ xelA is that he is bat shit insane regardless of which party is in power.

"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." -George Orwell
Or as updated for modern usage...
"All politicians are equal but some of their followers are more equal than others."

/

337 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:38:49pm

re: #334 Racer X

Thanks!

I found a good resource here in L.A.

Composting Bins

Yep. Its a win-win. He gets rid of his leaves, you get free compost material. You can also use eggshells in addition to all the produce left-overs. All you should have to do is turn-over the contents every few weeks.

Also: the link didn't work, but that was the most hilarious 404 page I have ever seen.

338 Cato the Elder  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:46:51pm

re: #295 Slumbering Behemoth

Meh, again. I just don't see a reason to get bent out of shape over an abbreviation. It's not like someone is calling you a secularist. :)

Now you just hold it right there a sec!

339 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:46:52pm

re: #335 Gus 802

Well, I first became aware of him during the Clinton admin., so in my timeline of awareness he's gone from being the darling of the underground far right, to the far left, to the far right again.

I think he is stark raving mad, and if he were to tell me the sky was blue and water was wet, I would have to preform several studies of my own before I agreed.

But as I said, I give him a bit of bitter credit for his consistency, though I have not an ounce of respect for him. The ones which I dub Animal Farm Ideologues, the ones that buy the conspiracies when the opposition party is in power, and poo-poo them when their party is in power? I have even less respect for them.

Just watch, if Obama turns out to be a one term POTUS that gives way to a republican, AJ will continue with his gimmick, and those who link to him now will break their backs twisting to discredit him.

340 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:49:23pm

re: #336 ausador

Precisely the text from which I came up with the term AFIs.

341 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:52:01pm

I agree with the facts and some of the opinions in this column by Michael Barone ...

[Link: www.humanevents.com...]

Does this mean I am a racist?

342 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:52:02pm

re: #338 Cato the Elder

I see what you did there.

343 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:53:30pm

re: #339 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah. Him and the conspiracy nuts that revolve around him do honestly stay consistent. They think that Obama is a Constitution-hating Zionist-bootlicker just like Bush, and Clinton before him.

In fact, the only real difference is that they went Birther, if only for the fact it was another "conspiracy".

344 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 10:57:08pm

re: #339 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, I first became aware of him during the Clinton admin., so in my timeline of awareness he's gone from being the darling of the underground far right, to the far left, to the far right again.

I think he is stark raving mad, and if he were to tell me the sky was blue and water was wet, I would have to preform several studies of my own before I agreed.

But as I said, I give him a bit of bitter credit for his consistency, though I have not an ounce of respect for him. The ones which I dub Animal Farm Ideologues, the ones that buy the conspiracies when the opposition party is in power, and poo-poo them when their party is in power? I have even less respect for them.

Just watch, if Obama turns out to be a one term POTUS that gives way to a republican, AJ will continue with his gimmick, and those who link to him now will break their backs twisting to discredit him.

Jones will keep raging against his perceived machine regardless of who is in power. However, there are certain principles of Jones that remain static. Jones is an all out anti-Israel conspiracy theorist. This is illustrated with his typical rants against the Bilderbergs, Rothschilds, AIPAC, etc. Perhaps that's what remains constant with Jones. These are themes shared by extremists on both the left and right. That's the underriding theme.

345 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:00:27pm

re: #341 _RememberTonyC

Georgia (no support against Russia),

August of 2008. Bush's fault.

/Too Tu Quo Queky?

346 Querent  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:01:04pm

re: #313 Racer X

I'm looking to buy a backyard composter - any suggestions?

i do okay with plastic bins full of worms, but there are plenty of good ones out there. What's your style of composting? High or low maintenance?

347 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:02:23pm

re: #343 Dante41

In fact, the only real difference is that they went Birther, if only for the fact it was another "conspiracy".

New log on the fire. Gotta keep that conspiracy mongering fresh, otherwise folks might catch on that you keep playing the same damn song with just slightly different lyrics.

348 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:03:18pm

re: #341 _RememberTonyC

I agree with the facts and some of the opinions in this column by Michael Barone ...

[Link: www.humanevents.com...]

Does this mean I am a racist?

Nope, just a bit gullible and perhaps too easily swayed. I could write a column like that against anyone in any position in government or business. He dredges up every single perceived slight or mishap that has been argued and quite often adequately explained on a case by case basis over the past year and a half without any background information and then attempts to make them damning by their shear weight of numbers.

I'm just surprised he doesn't also throw in that 25% of Republican Christians think that he could be the anti-Christ...

349 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:03:42pm

re: #347 Slumbering Behemoth

New log on the fire. Gotta keep that conspiracy mongering fresh, otherwise folks might catch on that you keep playing the same damn song with just slightly different lyrics.

Oh My GOD! ALEX JONES WRITES MUSIC FOR NICKLEBACK!!

/// /// ///

350 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:05:24pm

re: #313 Racer X

I'm looking to buy a backyard composter - any suggestions?

I like tumblers. There are a lot of variations but they all pretty much keep out the rats and mice since they're off the ground. They are also pretty efficient because it's easy to mix the contents once or twice a week.

352 Querent  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:08:07pm

re: #350 Killgore Trout
contents are also closer to waist level so you don't break your back bending over your witches' brew while tending it. (one problem i have with my open-air dirt-covered worm bins. But just dig a hole in it, add new stuff, cover it back up and ignore it while the worms do their thing. Fortunately the rodents that we do have seem to ignore the bins in favor of peoples' attics.)

353 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:08:51pm

re: #348 ausador

Nope, just a bit gullible and perhaps too easily swayed. I could write a column like that against anyone in any position in government or business. He dredges up every single perceived slight or mishap that has been argued and quite often adequately explained on a case by case basis over the past year and a half without any background information and then attempts to make them damning by their shear weight of numbers.

I'm just surprised he doesn't also throw in that 25% of Republican Christians think that he could be the anti-Christ...

Just because you could write a similar column doesn't make THIS one untrue. One of my biggest problems with Obama before he was elected was that he was heavily influenced by certain individuals like wright. And when your world view is through a certain lens, you HAVE to be influenced by that view. 20 years of wright's fiery speeches would make a large impression on ANYONE, not just Obama. But Obama's view of the world matters more than anyone else's. And I am troubled by what I have seen recently. He has done some things well, but also has made major mistakes.

354 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:09:20pm

re: #344 Gus 802

Jones is an all out anti-Israel conspiracy theorist.

I had not considered that, but I am convinced you are right. The "International Bankers" have been a theme in his rants, as well as other targets you mention.

I guess there lies the genius of his insane ravings, as folks on both the left and the right see them as a viable target to blame the world's ills on. He has job security if frames his bat-shit in just the right way.

"Fuck him and anyone who looks like him!", as we used to say in junior high.

355 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:10:26pm

re: #345 Slumbering Behemoth

August of 2008. Bush's fault.

/Too Tu Quo Queky?

When Moscow opens up a serious can of whoop ass on Chechnya and kills many innocents, will Obama bust their balls like he is busting Israel's? Not a fucking chance.

356 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:11:19pm

re: #354 Slumbering Behemoth

I had not considered that, but I am convinced you are right. The "International Bankers" have been a theme in his rants, as well as other targets you mention.

I guess there lies the genius of his insane ravings, as folks on both the left and the right see them as a viable target to blame the world's ills on. He has job security if frames his bat-shit in just the right way.

"Fuck him and anyone who looks like him!", as we used to say in junior high.

All the time. That's a recurring them with Jones.

357 lostlakehiker  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:11:40pm

re: #318 ausador

Talking about it is one thing...

Billy bob: "So how can we off a bunch of them there nazi-facist cops?"

Progressing to planning...

Billy bob: "So we kill one and then his buddies will show up by the hundreds for the funeral, we'll off them there."

Moving on to Conspiracy...

Billy bob: This is the cop we are going to kill, and here is how we are going to kill his buddies, I have the bomb plans from the internet and you, you, and you are going to get the stuff and build the bombs for us.

Daydreaming it wasn't, they had a plan, across multiple state lines yet, I'm not sure how you could further entice the Feds to bust you other than wearing an Osama Bin Laden costume while doing it.

/The idiots richly deserve the wimpy slap on the wrist sentences they will probably get in Federal court.

They'll get 25-50 years. And that's wimpy. They should get life without parole.

358 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:13:03pm

Ladies and Gents, I would like to direct you attention to this Crime against All Things Automotive: Warning: Not for the faint of Heart.

359 Silvergirl  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:13:33pm

re: #351 Gus 802

The Temptations - The Way You Do The Things You Do


[Video]

I can never decide if I like their version best, or Rita Coolidge's. One of my favorite Temptations songs is Papa Was a Rollin' Stone. No. Ball of Confusion!

360 Querent  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:17:04pm

re: #358 Dante41
yes, that's gawdawful.

Interesting thing is, i have a friend who both loves dragons and owns a Corvette, and i think even he would find this particular execution retch-inducing.

361 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:18:07pm

re: #355 _RememberTonyC

When Moscow opens up a serious can of whoop ass on Chechnya and kills many innocents, will Obama bust their balls like he is busting Israel's? Not a fucking chance.

So true. That's why I feel so verklempt about this.

362 Mark Pennington  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:18:07pm

re: #288 Killgore Trout

It's instinct, I don't think they can help it. Even though the militia hates Jews and was planning a mass murder of police officers, the ODS inflicted still see it as Obama cracking down on dissenting voices. They want Obama to fail even if that means he fails at stopping the murder of police officers and Jews.

As crazy as this sounds, I think you hit it dead on the head.

363 Querent  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:19:34pm

re: #361 Gus 802

So true. That's why I feel so verklempt about this.

i think i remember how to say 'when ya gonna quit breaking my balls' in Italian... but how do you say it in Yiddish?

364 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:21:47pm

re: #363 Querent

i think i remember how to say 'when ya gonna quit breaking my balls' in Italian... but how do you say it in Yiddish?

I'd have to look it up.

365 Querent  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:22:22pm

i'm sure the Lizard Army of Researchers will come through.

366 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:22:42pm

re: #355 _RememberTonyC

Sadly, no. Obviously neither would Bush (Georgia), nor any one else in recent history for that matter.

I say this not as a tu quoque, but as a "Just not gawt-damned good enough". We should treat our allies better, and yet Israel gets to be the loyal dog that is fed and kicked at the same time while certain wolves are given a pass.

This trend did not start with Obama or the democrats, and will likely not end there.

367 Querent  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:22:45pm

(as soon as they finish barfing on that car photo)

368 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:24:11pm

re: #367 Querent

(as soon as they finish barfing on that car photo)

He painted a toy green and glued to his hood...

369 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:24:16pm

re: #357 lostlakehiker

They'll get 25-50 years. And that's wimpy. They should get life without parole.

I seriously doubt that they get that kind of time, unless they have previous convictions I would expect something between 4 to maybe 12 years. Of course we do not yet know all the possible charges, conspiracy to murder is assured apparently, and I'm basing my estimate on that. If further charges like possession of illegal firearms or explosives or drugs appear then you could very well be right.

370 Dante41  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:25:53pm

re: #369 ausador

I seriously doubt that they get that kind of time, unless they have previous convictions I would expect something between 4 to maybe 12 years. Of course we do not yet know all the possible charges, conspiracy to murder is assured apparently, and I'm basing my estimate on that. If further charges like possession of illegal firearms or explosives or drugs appear then you could very well be right.

The conspiracy to commit sedition carries a penalty of min 20 years, I think.

371 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:26:24pm

re: #361 Gus 802

So true. That's why I feel so verklempt about this.

you may not agree with this, but I disagree with one thing that Charles and others have said about Obama's treatment of Israel. That school of thought is that Obama's policies on settlements, etc is very similar to Bush's. And while may technically be true, there is a more powerful message being received outside of the USA. That message is that Obama is far more anti Israel than Bush was. And that perception becomes reality when tensions between Israel and the US are highlighted instead of quietly settled. The enemies of Israel are emboldened and their intransigence increases when they see Obama bust Israel's balls while demanding nothing of the palestinians. And when Obama is also rebuffed by iran with no price extracted, that is even worse. We are seeing that situation rapidly developing.

372 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:28:58pm

re: #371 _RememberTonyC

you may not agree with this, but I disagree with one thing that Charles and others have said about Obama's treatment of Israel. That school of thought is that Obama's policies on settlements, etc is very similar to Bush's. And while may technically be true, there is a more powerful message being received outside of the USA. That message is that Obama is far more anti Israel than Bush was. And that perception becomes reality when tensions between Israel and the US are highlighted instead of quietly settled. The enemies of Israel are emboldened and their intransigence increases when they see Obama bust Israel's balls while demanding nothing of the palestinians. And when Obama is also rebuffed by iran with no price extracted, that is even worse. We are seeing that situation rapidly developing.

I hear you. We'll see what happens with the UN vote. If the USA doesn't veto then I'll reverse my opinion.

373 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:29:58pm

re: #363 Querent

i think i remember how to say 'when ya gonna quit breaking my balls' in Italian... but how do you say it in Yiddish?

in Yiddish, it translates to matzo balls .... not exactly what you were looking for :)

374 Querent  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:30:36pm

re: #373 _RememberTonyC

in Yiddish, it translates to matzo balls ... not exactly what you were looking for :)


it's the sentiment that matters!

375 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:31:50pm

re: #358 Dante41

Ladies and Gents, I would like to direct you attention to this Crime against All Things Automotive: Warning: Not for the faint of Heart.

Your right that is a pretty ugly shade of green spray paint he used, I would have used either forest or kelly green.

/that poor car...

376 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:32:24pm

re: #374 Querent

it's the sentiment that matters!

bad matzo balls can be a lethal weapon with a slingshot and someone with a good aim!

377 Querent  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:34:18pm

re: #376 _RememberTonyC

bad matzo balls can be a lethal weapon with a slingshot and someone with a good aim!

yeah... Just ask Goliath.

(reminds me, i need to get some Israeli Solidarity Crackers. Last Passover i went through 2 boxes of them, but then again, not being Jewish, i'm allowed to eat the salted ones...)

378 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:37:11pm

re: #377 Querent

yeah... Just ask Goliath.

(reminds me, i need to get some Israeli Solidarity Crackers. Last Passover i went through 2 boxes of them, but then again, not being Jewish, i'm allowed to eat the salted ones...)

LOL ... so Goliath was killed by a matzo ball fired from a slingshot. Too funny ..... Time to say goodnight ..... it's been fun.

379 Querent  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:37:13pm

okay, where'd everybody go...

380 Querent  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:37:38pm

re: #378 _RememberTonyC

take it easy!

381 Gus  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:38:42pm

Night all. Was a good night.

382 Lidane  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:40:18pm

It's 1:40 am and I'm falling asleep at the keyboard, so it's time for bed.

G'night Lizards!

383 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:41:53pm

re: #371 _RememberTonyC

I dig it, but I also find it difficult to push the blame of international tension on one admin., considering the amount of financial and material aid given to Palestine by previous admins.

Not offered as an excuse, but simply as on observation of how much I think the situation sucks. And I'm not sure how it can change. I could come out entirely gung-ho for Israel as a politician, only to be widely condemned by both the left and the right as a tool for any given judeo-centric conspiracy. I'd never get elected.

384 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:44:24pm

Who's got two thumbs and a ton of weed?

385 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:49:22pm

Oh come on, so Israel cleared Gaza and handed it over and the people there turned against them and elected a Hamas government, so what? It is only because Israel didn't turn over all of the west bank and east Jerusalem too that the Palestinians still have a complaint. Surely you can't expect them to deal with occupiers at gunpoint?

/sigh...and the beat goes on...

386 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 29, 2010 11:59:20pm

re: #385 ausador

No shit. If only they'd stop being so damn stubborn, grow some friggin' gills and learn to live in the ocean. There would be peace in the middle east.
/

387 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:02:43am

re: #3 darthstar

As a recovering Catholic, I feel I have the right to say "Fuck you, Bishop" to this:
The leader of the nation’s second-largest diocese urged his congregation to pray for the pope, saying he was suffering some of the same unjust accusations once faced by Jesus.

Jesus was accused of covering up the sexual abuse of minors? Is this one of those weird Gnostic gospels that may or may not be for real?

/

388 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:05:06am

re: #25 freetoken

Yeah... when "morality" is just an electro-chemical state of the brain, where goest ethics?

Hand in hand with good brain health, apparently.

389 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:05:20am

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

In case you missed me linking this earlier, sure to piss off friends and adversaries alike.

Is Satan a Catholic?

390 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:05:35am

re: #26 bratwurst

I got a downding for pointing this out the other night. Go figure.

No one ever said dinging was rational.

391 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:06:26am

re: #47 bratwurst

LOL I thought maybe it had something to do with a certain poster suggesting that my icon is the logo of what was "Hitler's favorite football club". First of all, this is a canard mostly spread by rival Dortmund fans. The team (Schalke 04) was the most successful in Germany during the era...but the fact it was made up of leftist coal minors and many of the players and fans had eastern European names severely limited their appeal to the higher-ups. Second of all, even if they were Hitler's favorite...big deal. Arsenal (of London) is said to be Osama Bin Laden's favorite team. Does that make all Arsenal fans Al-Qaeda supporters?

I hope not. I have an Arsenal scarf in my closet.

392 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:09:11am

Did you have a good day today, friends?

393 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:09:17am

re: #355 _RememberTonyC

When Moscow opens up a serious can of whoop ass on Chechnya and kills many innocents, will Obama bust their balls like he is busting Israel's? Not a fucking chance.

No. But the US has said nothing much about Russia's Chechnya policy for a long time. This is the norm.

394 Dante41  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:12:01am

In other, less serious but more GRIMDARK news, I have almost got everything I need for my Imperial Guard army. I still need the Leman Russ Executioner, and need the chassis and conversion kit for the Vanquisher, but other than that, I'm good.

One of my shipmates plays Tau. I think we are going to have a reckoning of who really has the God-like firepower.

395 freetoken  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:13:47am

re: #388 SanFranciscoZionist

Hand in hand with good brain health, apparently.

I just use aluminum foil to protect my brain from magnetic fields.

396 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:14:19am

re: #10 freetoken

Maybe he has magnets around his brain?

Study: Magnets can alter morality

I can already see the ads popping up on WND ...

Hmm. A difference of one point on a seven point scale, conducted on 20 participants/

Color me unimpressed.

397 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:16:01am

re: #389 Slumbering Behemoth

In case you missed me linking this earlier, sure to piss off friends and adversaries alike.

Is Satan a Catholic?

Probably not, but Paul of Tarsus was, some might even say that he was the first Catholic, amounts to pretty much the same thing really.

/

398 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:23:53am

re: #392 Slumbering Behemoth

Did you have a good day today, friends?

I see...

ausador
beekiller
boredtechindenver
Cato the Elder
Cheechako
Dante41
goddamnedfrank
harry catbox
HoosierHoops
JasonA
Killgore Trout
NoVA Mouse
Racer X
SanFranciscoZionist
SixDegrees
Slumbering Behemoth (Hey! That's me!)
Walter L. Newton

399 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:26:36am

re: #394 Dante41

Crap, another Warhammer-head.

400 Dante41  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:28:18am

re: #399 Slumbering Behemoth

Crap, another Warhammer-head.

You know you'd play it if it wasn't so damn expensive.

401 Mark Pennington  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:31:50am

re: #398 Slumbering Behemoth

I had a busy but decent day today, my friend. I have been working a lot of haven't had as much time online as I'd like. I really miss posting here.

402 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:32:10am

re: #400 Dante41

Nah, I spend money on beer and play the computer versions instead.

403 Dante41  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:33:22am

re: #402 Slumbering Behemoth

Nah, I spend money on beer and play the computer versions instead.

You want to know the worst army in that respect to play? Try fielding a Grey Knights force. All metal models.

404 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:35:56am

re: #401 beekiller

Stay gold, Beekiller. Stay gold.
/heh

405 Mark Pennington  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:37:39am

re: #398 Slumbering Behemoth

heh. The user name harry catbox reminds me of my cat food fiasco earlier tonight. I was opening a tin of cat food (the chunks in gravy-kind) earlier, and I suddenly had to sneeze. I banged the half-opened tin on the kitchen counter and a drop of cat food-gravy squirted out, straight into my open mouth. Hmmmm, salty beefy catfoody goodness... *puke*

406 Mark Pennington  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:39:17am

re: #404 Slumbering Behemoth

Stay gold, Beekiller. Stay gold.
/heh

Good night, Slumbering Behemoth and fellow Lizards.

407 Silvergirl  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:39:31am

re: #398 Slumbering Behemoth

Brown bear, brown bear . . .

I read to wee ones fairly regularly, so my mind went straight there.

408 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:45:18am

re: #403 Dante41

I know squat about Warhammer culture, aside from what I have gleaned from the PC game and the few Warhammer-heads here.

If I were into it, I'd be the type to show up to a table game with bits of card-stock with stick figures drawn on them, shouting "What!?! Are we here to roll dice or look purty?!?"
/and, um, are dice involved in Warhammer?

409 Dante41  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:47:40am

re: #408 Slumbering Behemoth

I know squat about Warhammer culture, aside from what I have gleaned from the PC game and the few Warhammer-heads here.

If I were into it, I'd be the type to show up to a table game with bits of card-stock with stick figures drawn on them, shouting "What!?! Are we here to roll dice or look purty?!?"
/and, um, are dice involved in Warhammer?

Yeah, they are.

Be happy that you don't play it, then. It costs at least 350 bucks to get a decent army, and then you have to build it.

410 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:51:00am

re: #409 Dante41

Again, I'd go all card-stock and felt pen for the avatars. I get the impression that this is simply not acceptable among serious players.

411 Dante41  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:53:01am

re: #410 Slumbering Behemoth

Again, I'd go all card-stock and felt pen for the avatars. I get the impression that this is simply not acceptable among serious players.

Or most casual players. What is point of playing a miniatures game if you don't have any miniatures?

And to be honest, half of the fun is building and customizing your army to make each trooper different from the thousands of others just like it. Plus the tanks. The gigantic tanks.

412 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 1:04:34am

re: #411 Dante41


Or most casual players. What is point of playing a miniatures game if you don't have any miniatures?

The fun of whuppin' your buddies arse, and the trash talking, maybe?

And to be honest, half of the fun is building and customizing your army to make each trooper different from the thousands of others just like it. Plus the tanks. The gigantic tanks.

I played about with Car Wars and O.G.R.E. And BattleTech back when it was called BattleDroids Little bits of card stock avatars on pre-made or self-drawn graph paper maps. And thus spent is the entirety of my geek-gamer cred, tiny as it is.

413 Dante41  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 1:10:47am

re: #412 Slumbering Behemoth

I played about with Car Wars and O.G.R.E. And BattleTech back when it was called BattleDroids Little bits of card stock avatars on pre-made or self-drawn graph paper maps. And thus spent is the entirety of my geek-gamer cred, tiny as it is.

Heh. I'm not old enough to have that kinda cred, but 40K allows me to combine my love of modeling and tanks with the ability to kick ass with them. As I said, the only downside is the enormous cost.

414 The Left  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 1:15:37am

hey michael steele, what up?

Report: RNC’s Voyeur Reimbursement Was for a Young Donor’s Afterparty

According to sources who were in attendance that night, the “official” part of the evening started with 50+ person dinner at the Beverly Hills Hotel, then carried on throughout the evening, eventually ending up at Voyeur. While RNC employees, who were in town to recruit members to its ”RNC Young Eagles“ program, did participate throughout the entire evening and did find their way to the bondage-themed club, Michael Steele himself was “not in attendance” for any portion of the evening. Brown, by the way, is reportedly a “Young Eagle” himself, a fundraising sub-group of the RNC which targets larger donors based on age group.

I'm sure this has been discussed already, but mmm-mmm-mmm. Hello, family values!

415 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 1:34:28am

re: #413 Dante41

Any hobby which gets a person social and interacting, and doesn't involve hurting/demonizing real life people is a good thing in my book.

I may crack wise, talk smack, and otherwise joke about it, but I won't hate on it.

416 Dante41  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 1:41:10am

re: #415 Slumbering Behemoth

Any hobby which gets a person social and interacting, and doesn't involve hurting/demonizing real life people is a good thing in my book.

I may crack wise, talk smack, and otherwise joke about it, but I won't hate on it.

Oh, I knew weren't hating on it. To be honest, the money thing is the most frequent (and accurate) gripe about the game.

417 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 1:58:33am

re: #416 Dante41

That's what I loved about the Steve Jackson games of the '80s. For a bit of chump change, you could pick up a small plastic box full of all the rules you needed, and go off with whatever you designed.

My biggest problem then was not price, but not having enough friends who were sufficiently "geek" to get into it.

418 Dante41  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 2:02:36am

re: #417 Slumbering Behemoth

That's what I loved about the Steve Jackson games of the '80s. For a bit of chump change, you could pick up a small plastic box full of all the rules you needed, and go off with whatever you designed.

My biggest problem then was not price, but not having enough friends who were sufficiently "geek" to get into it.

Heh. Best part about 40K: Lots of players. If there is a standard geeky game store in town, you'll have at least one 40k player.

Also, I think I am going to lie back down for a bit. See ya later today, SB.

419 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 2:07:05am

re: #418 Dante41

Peace be upon thee, Nerd Gamer. I shall knock off as well. G'nite Lizards.

420 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 2:27:51am

If I may pop back in for a second, this one goes out to Dark_Falcon, stay on target!

/and if you can think of something sexier than a woman going full-on dork...

421 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 2:53:12am

re: #358 Dante41

Another Jalopnik reader!

422 Scriptorium  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 3:05:09am

re: #355 _RememberTonyC

When Moscow opens up a serious can of whoop ass on Chechnya and kills many innocents, will Obama bust their balls like he is busting Israel's? Not a fucking chance.

You mean, will he fund them mightily yet stiff them for dinner and photo shoots and use the word 'condemn'? That would be pretty harsh.

/

423 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 3:07:55am

Morning Lizards. I hope today finds everyone well.

And todays safety tip is this. When working on a just de-energized monitor, don't become so distracted by conversing with a fellow coworker that you forget to discharge the CRT before attempting to remove the EHT connector.

20KV has a way of getting your attention (and straightening your hair). %-)

424 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 3:21:23am

Good Morning Lizards!

Science is Real!!!

425 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 3:25:30am

One more and I have to get kids up and paint.

BBL

426 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 3:30:27am

Diver dies at South Korean warship rescue site

This was a needless death. Any crew members that may have survived the explosion and sinking of the ship have by now perished from suffocation and hypothermia. Sorry to be so cold about it, but it is a fact. As a submariner, this type of death was something I faced every time my boat left port. That and being burnt to a cinder if the hull was breached deep enough to turn it into a diesel engine cylinder.

They should be using ROVs instead of divers to survey the site. Pumping O2 into the wreck is a waste of time and a needless risk of lives.

427 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 3:49:45am

re: #422 Scriptorium

You mean, will he fund them mightily yet stiff them for dinner and photo shoots and use the word 'condemn'? That would be pretty harsh.

/

Obama himself has decided to "fund them mightily"?

Gee,, here I thought all these years it has been standing US policy, not something that started 14 months ago.
The things you learn!

428 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 3:59:57am

So many hair-bands got costume ideas from the Thor comic books...

429 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:04:47am

re: #427 sattv4u2

Obama himself has decided to "fund them mightily"?

Gee,, here I thought all these years it has been standing US policy, not something that started 14 months ago.
The things you learn!

Whooda thunk it??
/

430 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:05:41am

re: #423 Bubblehead II

So, these two guys are working on a golf course reticulation system (chuckles) and the first guy says to his buddy 'George, I can't get this flange backed off.' Well, old George looks over and says 'Jeez Pete, you need to use a 3/4" gangly wrench on a Hobson spigot'. (snicker). Pete says 'I am, pass me yours, maybe mine's broken'. So George... (guffaw).. George passes his tool across .. (snort).. and then Pete says 'GANGLY wrench? I thought you said DANDY wrench!!'..
-Steve Martin

431 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:09:46am

Next winter, if there is three feet of snow on the ground; if you hear me bitching about it, please remind me that three feet of snow keeps the pollen count down..

sniff

432 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:15:12am

Morning?

433 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:15:22am
434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:15:54am

re: #432 Walter L. Newton

Morning?

Why yes, yes it is.

435 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:18:52am

Report: Algeria arrests Mossad agent with fake Spanish passport

Algerian authorities have arrested an Israeli Mossad agent carrying a fake Spanish passport in the city of Hassi Messaoud near an Egyptian office providing service for oil companies, Algerian Ennahar El Djadid newspaper reported on Tuesday.

According to the Algerian sources, the Mossad agent entered Algeria under the fake identity of a 35-year old Spanish man named Alberto Vagilo, and spent over ten days in the country prior to his arrest.

436 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:21:33am

re: #430 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

WOOSHE!

Went over my head.

If you have to explain a joke, it isn't a joke.

437 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:22:08am
438 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:22:56am

re: #432 Walter L. Newton

Depends on your time zone.

439 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:23:03am

A comic book from '69 involving a muscled man with a hammer.

Ricky Martin comes out as gay.

Is the world trying to tell me something?

/ o:

//also goodevening

440 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:23:47am

re: #436 Bubblehead II

WOOSHE!

Went over my head.

If you have to explain a joke, it isn't a joke.

Oh, I thought you had heard the bit... it ended like this...

(paroxysms of self induced laughter)... )...(looks offstage as if in response to a director's cue) ... Sooooooo, folks, there's a big plumbing convention starting TOMORROW apparently...

441 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:24:54am

re: #438 Bubblehead II

Depends on your time zone.

Tough room.

442 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:29:52am

re: #441 Walter L. Newton

Tough room.

Evening, Walter.

443 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:31:06am

re: #428 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So many hair-bands got costume ideas from the Thor comic books...

Those ,, and that guy Fabio who's depicted on all those romance novels

444 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:31:44am

re: #438 Bubblehead II

Depends on your time zone.

In some places, it's already tomorrow!

445 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:32:07am

re: #444 sattv4u2

In some places, it's already tomorrow!

It's 5:00 somewhere.

446 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:32:36am

re: #445 thedopefishlives

It's 5:00 somewhere.

a.m AND p.m

447 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:32:48am

re: #444 sattv4u2

Sorry, only 7:30 PM here. ):

448 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:33:13am

re: #437 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A Price is Right clip? Perhaps I am dense, like lead.

449 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:34:13am

Okay

sons been delivered to the bus stop
chili is in the crock pot
gotta go coax the dogs off of my pillow so I can catch a few more moments of shut eye before I tackle the chores du jour

450 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:40:25am

Cigarettes may contain pig blood

CIGARETTES may contain traces of pigs' blood, an Australian academic says with a warning that religious groups could find its undisclosed presence "very offensive".

University of Sydney Professor in Public Health Simon Chapman points to recent Dutch research which identified 185 different industrial uses of a pig - including the use of its haemoglobin in cigarette filters.

Prof Chapman said the research offered an insight into the otherwise secretive world of cigarette manufacture, and it was likely to raise concerns for devout Muslims and Jews.

Religious texts at the core of both of these faiths specifically ban the consumption of pork.

"I think that there would be some particularly devout groups who would find the idea that there were pig products in cigarettes to be very offensive," Prof Chapman said today.

451 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:41:27am

re: #450 NJDhockeyfan

Cigarettes may contain pig blood

The real question is, what ISN'T in cigarettes?

452 SteveC  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:42:52am

re: #444 sattv4u2

In some places, it's already tomorrow!

So they don't have to watch The Today Show? Where are these places?

453 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:45:22am

Gord Morning LGF.

454 researchok  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:48:43am

re: #450 NJDhockeyfan

Cigarettes may contain pig blood

I can see it now- 'The Israelis are deliberately infecting Palestinian smokers with pig blood'.

455 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:50:02am

re: #454 researchok

I can see it now- 'The Israelis are deliberately infecting Palestinian smokers with pig blood'.

I updinged you because it's funny, but the worst part of it is, they'll probably say that, too.

456 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:54:54am

Time to bail Lizards. This twilight zone segment ends tomorrow morning. I get to go back onto my regularly scheduled posting time. Instead of posting before I go to bed, I get to post before I go to work. Should make them more concise (I hope).

Good Night/Day Lizards and weet dreams

Night all

457 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:55:50am
'Terrorists will be destroyed'
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
30/03/2010 00:16

Putin pledges reprisal for terror attack in Moscow; Netanyahu: We share grief.
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin vowed a fierce response Monday after two female suicide bombers blew themselves up in twin attacks on Moscow subway stations, killing at least 37 people and wounding 102. Officials blamed the carnage on rebels from the Caucasus region.

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu issued a statement where he expressed Israel’s solidarity and sympathy with the Russian people.

“In the name of all of Israel, please receive our condolences to the families of the murdered and our wishes of full recovery to the wounded. We condemn the terror attacks which caused so much grief to innocent civilians."

“As a nation that is a target to terror attacks, Israel expresses its deep solidarity and companionship with the Russian people in its hour of grief; we stand united with all enlightened nations in the struggle against terrorism which threatens all of human society,” Netanyahu said.

In a statement issued by the White House early Monday, the president said the American people stand united with the people of Russia in opposition to violent extremism and "heinous" terrorist attacks.

In a phone call to President Medvedev to offer condolences following the attacks, President Obama went on to say that "the United States was ready to cooperate with Russia to help bring to justice those who undertook this attack," the White House said in a statement quoted by Reuters.

Radical Islam is the scourge of the civilized world.

458 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:57:04am

Morning Honcos!!

459 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 4:58:18am

re: #457 Spare O'Lake

Radical Islam is the scourge of the civilized world.

The scourge of Russia too!
/

460 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:00:19am

re: #457 Spare O'Lake

"Mr. Prime Minister, sir, suicide bombers have attacked the metro."
"I'll take care of the reprisals. Don't worry about it."
"Sometimes I miss the days of the KGB. At least they could keep things calm."
"You know what they say, Anatoly. There is no such thing..."

[sunglasses]

"...as an ex-KGB agent."

461 SteveC  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:00:52am

re: #458 Cannadian Club Akbar

Morning Honcos!!

Wazzzup?

462 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:02:01am

re: #457 Spare O'Lake

Waterboarding? I'm guessing... no?

463 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:02:32am

re: #451 thedopefishlives

The real question is, what ISN'T in cigarettes?

Unicorn farts.

464 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:04:06am

re: #459 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The scourge of Russia too!
/

It is sometimes hard to reject the double standard. I think that in the case of terrorism we all need to get past the proposition that there are some innocent victims of terrorism who deserved to be slaughtered because of their government's policies.
Even our worst enemies are above the terrorist scum.

465 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:04:19am

Crap, BBl.

466 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:04:29am

re: #463 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Unicorn farts.

A long time ago when the earth was green,
there was more kind of animals then you ever seen,
there were cat's and rat's and elephant's and sure as you are born,
the loveliest of them all was the unicorn fart.

467 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:05:45am

re: #451 thedopefishlives

REAL tobacco.

468 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:06:08am

re: #467 laZardo

REAL tobacco.

Ok, now there you've got me. It would surprise me if that were the case.

469 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:08:22am

re: #464 Spare O'Lake

Well, I'm of the opinion that Putin could (if given the opportunity) be badder than W, Rove, Cheney, Obama, and Gates with PMS on steroids.

Somebody's gonna go old school and some terrorists asses.

470 SteveC  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:08:40am

re: #460 laZardo

"Mr. Prime Minister, sir, suicide bombers have attacked the metro."
"I'll take care of the reprisals. Don't worry about it."
"Sometimes I miss the days of the KGB. At least they could keep things calm."
"You know what they say, Anatoly. There is no such thing..."

[sunglasses]

"...as an ex-KGB agent."

"You're going to need the whole team, Horatio. It's a bloodbath in there."

"You don't need blood to know what this really is, Frank..." *sunglasses slide on*

"...It's murder."

YEEHAAA! (Won't be fooled again)

471 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:10:17am

Iceland Bans Strip Clubs

Rats! Now I have to cancel my vacation to Iceland.

472 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:11:18am

Work. BBL...

473 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:12:29am

re: #469 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, I'm of the opinion that Putin could (if given the opportunity) be badder than W, Rove, Cheney, Obama, and Gates with PMS on steroids.

Somebody's gonna go old school and some terrorists asses.

Yup. And you can be pretty sure that Obama's not going to be issuing any ultimatums for the Russians to address the legitimate national aspirations of the Chechen people as a condition of US support.

474 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:12:59am

re: #471 NJDhockeyfan

Iceland Bans Strip Clubs

Rats! Now I have to cancel my vacation to Iceland.

"if stripping is outlawed, only outlaws will strip!"

475 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:13:10am

re: #470 SteveC

"You're going to need the whole team, Horatio. It's a bloodbath in there."

"You don't need blood to know what this really is, Frank..." *sunglasses slide on*

"...It's murder."

YEEHAAA! (Won't be fooled again)

WON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN

NO NO!

476 researchok  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:13:23am

re: #471 NJDhockeyfan

The horror. I can see back alley strip clubs...

477 SteveC  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:14:48am

re: #476 researchok

The horror. I can see back alley strip clubs...

... private dances....

478 researchok  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:15:46am

re: #477 SteveC

... private dances...

Private dances at homes....

479 SteveC  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:16:42am

re: #478 researchok

Private dances at homes...

(It has to be said...) THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

480 researchok  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:17:27am

re: #479 SteveC

Gives a whole new meaning to 'French Underground'

481 SteveC  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:19:31am

Small French town still uses Francs

"They feel cheated by the euro and they think prices went up when it came in, even if that's not really true," Ms Auteau says.

"And with the expansion of the EU to the east, we feel we're being over-taxed, that we're feeding the others."

/Ya don't say?

482 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:20:15am

re: #471 NJDhockeyfan

Iceland Bans Strip Clubs

Rats! Now I have to cancel my vacation to Iceland.

Shameful:
DAD IS A DANCER
One day a fourth-grade teacher asked the children what their fathers did for a living.
All the typical answers came up fireman, mechanic, businessman, salesman and so forth.
However, little Justin was being uncharacteristically quiet, so when the teacher prodded him about his father, he replied, "My father's an exotic dancer in a gay cabaret and takes off all his clothes in front of other men and they put money in his underwear. Sometimes, if the offer is really good, he will go home with some guy and stay with him all night for money.
The teacher, obviously shaken by this statement, hurriedly set the other children to work on some exercises and took little Justin aside to ask him, "Is that really true about your father?
"No," the boy said, "He works for the Democratic National Committee and helped to get Obama elected, but it's too embarrassing to say that in front of the other kids."

483 researchok  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:21:34am

re: #481 SteveC

Small French town still uses Francs

/Ya don't say?

Big story

484 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:22:35am

re: #476 researchok

The horror. I can see back alley strip clubs...

They always have 3-D porn movies to fall back on.

485 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:22:41am

Morning people. There is a story in the local paper about a little kid who hurt himself on a teacup ride in Indy. Here's the portion that jumped out at me:

Boy, 5, critical after falling from ride
Child hurt in accident at Great Xscape in Lafayette Square Mall
[Link: www.indystar.com...]


The incident falls under the jurisdiction of the Indiana Department of Homeland Security, the agency that inspects rides at outdoor amusement parks and at the Indiana State Fair midway. The agency should have been notified within four hours of the accident but was not, according to spokesman John Erickson.
.................
Erickson was not immediately aware of any potential citations that might follow failure to notify the state of the accident. Great Xscape closed the ride after the accident, and a Homeland Security inspector is expected to examine the ride today.

Why in the hell carnival rides are covered under the Indiana Homeland Security agency is beyond me.

486 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:24:00am

re: #485 RogueOne


Why in the hell carnival rides are covered under the Indiana Homeland Security agency is beyond me.

It is a gov't agency which means it's run by a bunch of clowns.

487 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:25:36am

re: #485 RogueOne

Well, it was the teacup ride. And teabags can often be found in teacups...

488 SteveC  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:27:41am

re: #486 NJDhockeyfan

It is a gov't agency which means it's run by a bunch of clowns.

DING! We have a Winnah!re: #487 laZardo

Well, it was the teacup ride. And teabags can often be found in teacups...

TWO Winnahs?!?!

489 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:33:13am

re: #485 RogueOne

Morning people. There is a story in the local paper about a little kid who hurt himself on a teacup ride in Indy. Here's the portion that jumped out at me:

Boy, 5, critical after falling from ride
Child hurt in accident at Great Xscape in Lafayette Square Mall
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

Why in the hell carnival rides are covered under the Indiana Homeland Security agency is beyond me.

From what I know of it, traveling amusements used to be under state agencies like Dept of Commerce or Labor (50 states, 50 rules). If you think about the sociology of carnies, their mobility and economics, DHS makes some sense. Ask Walter, IIRC, he was part of the carney world in his misspent youth.

490 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:34:13am

Moonbats converge at Rove book signing...

Rove Gets Branded 'War Criminal' At Book Signing


About 100 fans came out to hear Karl Rove at the Saban Theatre in Beverly Hills Monday night to discuss his book "Courage and Consequences: My Life As a Conservative In The Fight," -- but the fight wasn't contained to his book.

Anti-war protesters came out, some rushing the stage, to call Rove a "war criminal" and worse.

The fans came to get their books signed, but they never got that chance.

One woman, the co-founder of the anti-war group Code Pink, approached him with handcuffs and said she was there to make a citizen's arrest. Jodie Evans charged him with "outing a CIA agent...you lied to take us to war..." and "totally ruining the country."

KCAL 9's Dave Bryan was there and said Rove "was shouted down and forced to leave the stage."

Another woman screamed at Rove, "The only comfort I take is that...you're going to rot in hell."

Rove, meanwhile, charged that the people shouting him down were an example of the "totalitarianism of the left...they don't believe in dialog...they don't believe in courtesy. They don't believe in first Amendment rights for anyone but themselves."

491 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:35:01am

re: #490 NJDhockeyfan

Moonbats converge at Rove book signing...

Rove Gets Branded 'War Criminal' At Book Signing

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right. Etc., etc.

492 SteveC  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:36:25am

I WON...dinner and a hotel room?

"There was a lady sitting next to me and she said, 'Oh my God, $42 million.' I started jumping up and down," Chavez told 7NEWS...
A few minutes later, casino officials told her the machine had malfunctioned.

“They offered to comp my room and meals,” she said. “I’ll never go back.”

493 prairiefire  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:37:29am

White supremacist running racist ads in MO for MO house seat:

494 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:46:04am

re: #493 prairiefire

White supremacist running racist ads in MO for MO house seat:[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

I wonder if he is using the same ad company as Tom Metzger?

495 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:49:14am

MTA cuts weekend surveillance at vulnerable Verrazano Bridge, Queens-Midtown Tunnel

It's eyes wide shut at two of the city's main bridges and tunnels.

The MTA has removed weekend security details from the Queens Midtown Tunnel and the Verrazano Bridge, the Daily News learned Monday, just as the Moscow bombers sent New York into a new round of terror jitters.

No longer do MTA Bridges and Tunnels cops man booths at the tunnel exit or on the bridge's two tower anchorages on Saturdays and Sundays.

Instead, the MTA says it has a high-tech surveillance system of cameras and monitors.

Security sources familiar with the bridge and tunnel say that is a mistake.

"What if a terrorist wants to do something?" said one source. "People walk in all the time - drunk, lost, homeless, cars going the wrong way," the source said of the tunnel's unguarded exit.

"God forbid someone walks in and wants to plant a bomb."

496 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:55:41am

re: #491 thedopefishlives

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right. Etc., etc.

Was there a citizen's arrest?

497 ozbloke  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 5:57:22am

Would this make the whole world socialists?

Robin Hood tax 'could feed millions'
By Economics correspondent Stephen Long

Some of Australia's best and brightest have joined a global campaign for a so-called Robin Hood tax.

The tax, technically known as a Tobin tax, would take a tiny levy from each of the trillions of financial transactions that happen every millisecond on global markets.

In Australia, Reverend Tim Costello and comedian Julian Morrow are among those urging action.

Advocates say the tax would reduce damaging financial speculation and create a giant pool of money that could be used to feed the hungry and combat global warming.

In a YouTube campaign video, actor Bill Nighy plays a reluctant banker who is gradually sold on the merits of what has been dubbed the Robin Hood tax.

It is a modern version on the old theme of taking from the rich to give to the poor, a minute tax on all financial transactions other than routine banking by the public.

Advocates say the tiny tax would raise hundreds of billions of dollars to combat global warming, reduce poverty and repair the battered finances of governments after the global financial crisis.

Ethicist Peter Singer is among other prominent Australians who have joined the global campaign.

"We're talking about a really tiny tax. We're talking about, not 1 per cent, not a tenth of 1 per cent, but a 20th of 1 per cent," he said.

"Obviously I'm most interested in the fact that it can raise funds from all the world to help the world's poorest people and to help pay for the damage that we're doing to them through climate change.

"But there's also an economic argument that it will reduce the volatility of international markets.

"That is, instead of huge billions of dollars being thrown around the world for a few moments here and there to earn a tiny profit, a very, very small tax would have an inhibiting effect on that."

More...

498 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:03:25am

re: #497 ozbloke

In a YouTube campaign video, actor Bill Nighy plays a reluctant banker who is gradually sold on the merits of what has been dubbed the Robin Hood tax.

SCIENCE!

499 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:04:26am

re: #497 ozbloke

None of us is as dumb as all of us.

500 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:05:21am

re: #497 ozbloke

I think Richard Pryor did this in Superman III.

And it was also done in Office Space....

501 Digital Display  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:07:11am

Speaking of comic books.. A superman issue just sold for 1.5 million bucks..
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

502 ozbloke  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:08:06am

re: #500 rwdflynavy

I've not heard of it before and I don't understand all the implications.

I wouldn't mind being on the receiving end :)

503 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:08:34am

Morning (again) Honcos!!

504 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:08:55am

Hi-tech Swiss Army Knife 'unhackable'


I feel very hard done by: mine just had scissors, a sharp knife that actually rather frightened me, and a device for getting stones out of horses' hooves. This last didn't get a lot of use in a west London suburb.

But the latest Swiss Army Knife has gone all hi-security, with the addition of a USB stick offering up to 32GB of storage which maker Victorinox claims is the most secure of its type available.

The Victorinox Secure uses several layers of security including fingerprint identification and a thermal sensor - "so that the finger alone, detached from the body, will still not give access to the memory stick’s contents", they say. That's really nice to know.

It's also been made tamper-proof. Any attempt to forcibly open it triggers a self-destruct mechanism that irrevocably burns its CPU and memory chip - so much easier than having to eat the thing.

Victorinox is so confident, it offered a £100,000 prize to a team of professional hackers if they could break into it during a two-hour period - they couldn't.

505 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:10:22am

re: #499 rwdflynavy

None of us is as dumb as all of us.

It's way too early to be serious, but that might be the most important arguable statement on LGF.

506 keloyd  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:10:39am

re: #497 ozbloke

That Tobin/Robin Hood tax is one of the most sanctimonious, hypocritical, and ignorant things I have read in a long time. They grossly overstate the motives and nature of government spending. Is the Australian civil servict staffed entirely by saints and Old Testament patriarchs?

If you tax income from capital gains, why tax them again? Why not just add to the cap gains tax? Oh, you want to tax losses too? Because it's always good when you take more, no matter from whom it's taken? Wait, maybe you want to slow down international capital that flows largely into the settled, safer economies like Australia and the US? Maybe don't kill the golden goose, but cut back on its feed and expect the same amount of golden eggs? What are the odds the percentage will stay where it is? I'll tell you that's also 1/20 of a percent. These clowns are giving me flashbacks of Bill Clinton crying on cue about how the rich need to pay 'their fair share.' The whole thing reeks of class warfare rhetoric and bad economics.

507 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:13:46am

re: #506 keloyd

It sounds a bit like the "Salami" game, an early computer accounting con that slipped "undetectably" small fractions of millions of transactions into a bandit account.

508 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:14:49am

The new health care bill is racist.
/
[Link: blog.al.com...]

509 ozbloke  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:16:12am

re: #506 keloyd

That Tobin/Robin Hood tax is one of the most sanctimonious, hypocritical, and ignorant things I have read in a long time. They grossly overstate the motives and nature of government spending. Is the Australian civil servict staffed entirely by saints and Old Testament patriarchs?

I wouldn't think so, we have a left wing govt.
One who currently wants to censor the Internet...

510 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:17:05am

re: #508 Cannadian Club Akbar

There was a 'reader-submitted' editorial cartoon submitted to a local newspaper 'round December 2008-ish depicting a "Then-and-now."

"Then" showed a Filipino woman using skin-whitener products as are popular here.
"Now" showed a white American using tanning oil.

/here, we tend to get away with offending EVERYONE. >_>

511 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:18:04am

re: #509 ozbloke

That Tobin/Robin Hood tax is one of the most sanctimonious, hypocritical, and ignorant things I have read in a long time. They grossly overstate the motives and nature of government spending. Is the Australian civil servict staffed entirely by saints and Old Testament patriarchs?

I wouldn't think so, we have a left wing govt.
One who currently wants to censor the Internet...

At least Michael Atkinson stepped down from Attorney General, so hopefully you guys can share in uncensored M-rated vidya gaems like the rest of the world (save for Germany.)

512 keloyd  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:18:11am

Any small group of people/businesses who doesn't have the power to fight back and is not politically well connected - they need to pay "their fair share!!1!1!"
/

513 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:19:30am
514 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:21:27am

Bastards!!
[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

515 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:21:42am
516 keloyd  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:21:44am

re: #509 ozbloke

OTOH, yall got a Top Gear franchise and we didn't, as well as football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars. I trust the Australian public to fight that nanny state crap better than anyone in Europe or Canada.

517 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:22:16am

re: #510 laZardo

There was a 'reader-submitted' editorial cartoon submitted to a local newspaper 'round December 2008-ish depicting a "Then-and-now."

"Then" showed a Filipino woman using skin-whitener products as are popular here.
"Now" showed a white American using tanning oil.

/here, we tend to get away with offending EVERYONE. >_>

Nipsey Russell had a joke from the days of a tanning product called "Man Tan". He said, to meet whites half-way, he was developing a skin bleach called "Yellow Fellow".

518 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:23:32am

re: #506 keloyd

It's a really brilliant idea that is probably unworkable.

But there is nothing more class warfare about it than any other form of taxation. No tax scheme is 'fair'. You either tax wealth or income-- that alone isn't 'fair'. Do you compare the percentage of tax paid, or the amount of money after taxes are paid? Whichever way you do it, it's not 'fair'.

A taxation on the things that occur solely because we have government and civil society-- complex financial transactions-- does make poetic sense. However, the amount of transparency it would take is probably beyond the political power of modern governments.

It would also have the benefit of penalizing rent-seeking and other purely parasitical transactions that are an unwanted byproduct of capitalism.

519 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:26:14am

Trinity students want diplomas without 'Our Lord'

SAN ANTONIO — Some Trinity University students are asking school trustees to drop the words “Our Lord” from their diplomas, arguing that the reference doesn’t respect the diversity of religions on campus.

Sidra Qureshi, a Muslim student and president of Trinity Diversity Connection, is leading the charge to tweak the wording. The effort has won the support of student government, and trustees are expected to consider the request in May.

“A diploma is a very personal item, and people want to proudly display it in their offices and homes,” Qureshi told the San Antonio Express-News in Monday’s editions.

The school’s president and other students defend the wording, saying the school’s Presbyterian roots are appropriate and unobtrusive. Founded in 1869, Trinity has been governed by an independent Board of Trustees since 1969 but maintains a “covenant relationship” with the church.

520 ozbloke  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:28:10am

re: #516 keloyd

I hope your right, they are starting with a filter and a non disclosed list of banned sites. Theoretically kiddie pr0n and how to make bombs etc.

It is suppose to be installed by ISP's

But you know what they say, first they came for the Jews...

Personally, I cant see the filter being succesful, if they made the filter free for people to download if they wanted to I wouldn't mind so much.

521 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:29:42am
522 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:31:11am

re: #519 NJDhockeyfan

Trinity students want diplomas without 'Our Lord'

A college with an obvious Christian name. Why didn't the Muslim student go to a Muslim University? Dbag.

523 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:31:12am

re: #521 laZardo

[Video]

U R SEW MEEN!

524 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:31:50am

re: #523 MandyManners

U R SEW MEEN!

INORITE?

525 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:32:45am

re: #519 NJDhockeyfan

If it were a public college, they would have a theoretical case. If there's no tax money involved, they are free to ask and be refused.

526 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:33:41am

re: #522 Cannadian Club Akbar

A college with an obvious Christian name. Why didn't the Muslim student go to a Muslim University? Dbag.

I'm sure Birzeit University would love to have her.

527 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:34:53am

Gonna' go stick a hot poker up my nose.

Have a great day, Lizards.

528 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:35:20am

Greetings and salutations, folks.

Today, on this date, something happened.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

529 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:35:45am

CBO Admits that 1.5 Million ‘Stimulus Jobs’ Estimate Ignored Deepening Recession, Misspent Funds

A few weeks ago, I posted that CBO’s estimate that the stimulus created saved 1.5 million jobs was not based on any actual examination of the post-stimulus economy. Instead, CBO essentially re-released their initial prediction that the stimulus would work, and presented that as proof that it did work.

This is like a weather forecaster saying that the high yesterday was 65 degrees, because that is what had been predicted — even though it actually never topped 50 degrees.

Now, CBO director Doug Elmendorf has finally conceded that they never actual examined this stimulus bills’ affect on the economy. Responding to a questioner following a recent speech, he admitted that the CBO’s jobs count was “essentially repeating the same exercise” as their initial projections. When asked if this means their jobs projections would have ignored any failures of stimulus spending to perform as CBO predicted, Mr. Elmendorf responded “that’s right.” (Exchange begins at 38:20.)

CBO never actually counted the jobs. Nor did their analysis take into account the rising unemployment rate. Or the economic figures. Or how effectively the money was spent. They merely assumed this government spending “must have” saved 1.5 million jobs.

530 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:36:12am

re: #527 MandyManners

Gonna' go stick a hot poker up my nose.

in bed

531 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:36:45am

re: #527 MandyManners

Gonna' go stick a hot poker up my nose.

In bed?

532 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:37:39am

Brick thrown through window of Howell GOP office

Lansing -- A brick was tossed through the window at a Michigan Republican Party office in Howell over the weekend in what party officials said today "appears to be politically motivated violence."

No one was hurt and nothing apparently was taken, a party spokeswoman said. The message "long live the USA, God bless the USA" was scribbled on the brick, officials said. The Livingston County Sheriff's office is investigating.

The brick-throwing incident may be related to vandalism at Republican offices across the country, including a campaign office of U.S. Rep. Eric Cantor and the Republican Party headquarters in Albemarle County, Va., officials said.

533 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:38:17am

re: #531 Mad Al-Jaffee

re: #530 NJDhockeyfan

Fetishists. q:

534 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:38:41am

re: #532 NJDhockeyfan

Brick thrown through window of Howell GOP office

INSIDE JAWB!

/
// ?

535 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:39:57am

re: #532 NJDhockeyfan

Brick thrown through window of Howell GOP office

True patriot, but weak on capitalization.

536 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:40:48am

re: #532 NJDhockeyfan

Brick thrown through window of Howell GOP office

The message "long live the USA, God bless the USA" was scribbled on the brick, officials said. The Livingston County Sheriff's office is investigating.

Inside job for sure, what liberal would even pen a message with the word "god" in it.

537 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:40:51am

re: #532 NJDhockeyfan

Mr. Howell from Gilligan's Island?

538 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:42:21am

re: #536 Walter L. Newton

Inside job for sure, what liberal would even pen a message with the word "god" in it.

Rev. Wright.

539 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:44:01am

re: #538 Decatur Deb

Rev. Wright.

That godless make believe christian?

540 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:44:06am

re: #538 Decatur Deb

Rev. Wright.

Yea, but he follows with the word "Damn."

541 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:45:14am

Oh good grief. I just saw the Code Pink disruption of a Karl Rove book event. They tried to arrest him as a war criminal.
Between the Tea Bag party, Hutaree and Code Pink I just want to hibernate through this election cycle.

542 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:45:15am

Oops.


Bridgewater Township official turns to militia for help; watchdog groups question decision
[Link: www.annarbor.com...]


Bridgewater Township Supervisor Jolea Mull has twice sought help from militia members this year to search for missing township residents.

The move is drawing criticism from militia watchdog groups, who say Mull is legitimizing an extreme right-wing movement that has a history of being associated with criminal activity.
....
When Mull learned from Washtenaw County sheriff's deputies that a township woman was missing Jan. 13, she contacted local militia leader Jimmy Schiel.

“She said, ‘Hey, we need help to do a ground search for Anna-Maria Wheeker,” Schiel recalls of their phone conversation that morning. “I said, ‘So you want the militia?' And she said, ‘Yes.”

543 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:45:16am

Marine's father ordered to pay Westboro's court costs

Lawyers for the father of a Marine who died in Iraq and whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters say a court has ordered him to pay the protesters' appeal costs.

On Friday, the Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered that Albert Snyder of York, Pa., pay costs associated with Fred Phelps' appeal. Phelps is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, which conducted protests at the funeral of Snyder's son, Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, in Westminster in 2006.

Lawyers for Snyder say the Court of Appeals has ordered him to pay $16,510.80 to Phelps for costs relating to the appeal, despite the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to review the Court of Appeals' decision.

They say that Snyder is also struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court.

"We are extremely disappointed," said Sean E. Summers, an attorney for Snyder. He added that the U.S. Supreme Court will likely hear the case during its October term and make a decision in June of next year.

"The Court of Appeals certainly could have waited until the Supreme Court made its decision," Summers added. "There was no hardship presented by Phelps."

Summers said there is no timetable for when the costs must be paid, but if his client doesn't have the money when Phelps requests payment the matter would go into collections. Snyder could lose his property or his wages, Summers said.

544 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:46:43am

re: #541 Rightwingconspirator

Oh good grief. I just saw the Code Pink disruption of a Karl Rove book event. They tried to arrest him as a war criminal.
Between the Tea Bag party, Hutaree and Code Pink I just want to hibernate through this election cycle.

Or become a brick salesman.
/

545 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:47:24am

re: #541 Rightwingconspirator

Oh good grief. I just saw the Code Pink disruption of a Karl Rove book event. They tried to arrest him as a war criminal.
Between the Tea Bag party, Hutaree and Code Pink I just want to hibernate through this election cycle.

Free speech for me, not for thee.

546 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:47:28am

re: #544 Cannadian Club Akbar

LOL!

547 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:48:10am

re: #539 Walter L. Newton

I'm not qualified to say. Did you catch the questions on carnivals/Homeland Security upthread?

548 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:48:41am

re: #541 Rightwingconspirator

Oh good grief. I just saw the Code Pink disruption of a Karl Rove book event. They tried to arrest him as a war criminal.
Between the Tea Bag party, Hutaree and Code Pink I just want to hibernate through this election cycle.

It should make for a good Fall on LGF.

549 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:48:47am

More on the Hutaree:

Hutaree is a 'cult,' says Eastern Michigan University militia expert
[Link: www.annarbor.com...]


On Monday afternoon, following weekend raids by federal authorities in three states, Kay said the group went beyond that initial assessment. Kay, the provost and executive vice-president of academic affairs at Eastern Michigan University, has done extensive research on militias.

“Everything I’ve read about them and on their website establish to me that they are a cult,” he said. “They are true believers. They feel they are on a divine mission. They are willing to be martyrs. It goes beyond patriotism and gets into groupthink.

“They believe everything is a conspiracy. They create their own fictional future. It’s just not logical to think you’re going to wake up someday and overthrow the government.”

Even members of other militias describe Hutaree as a cult.

550 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:49:12am

re: #543 NJDhockeyfan

Goddammit.

551 keloyd  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:49:29am

re: #518 Obdicut

Well, yes. Taking off my unemployed grouchy hat, and putting on my somewhat dusty Rational hat with the little tassle -

As a tax scheme, its incentives are actually not all bad by comparison to what most developed countries have now. Day traders do not add to liquidity as much as they think, just as a semi-informed committee of 100 is often not smarter than a well-informed committee of 4. Day trader behavior is easily modeled to look kind of like gazelles on the savannah - running all this way or that when a few get spooked/greedy . Is this the parasitical rent seeking you were thinking of? You are stretching my distant memory of terms from Econ class.

My biggest objection is that well designed taxes seldom replace bad ones. They are added on top, and increase the total burden. By analogy, states that add an income tax do not replace sales taxes. Over time, they just take more. My suburb's schools are about as ethnically mixed as Dallas and spend 1/4 less, but are among the best in the state. Dallas is pathetic, and has a dozen extra sneaky niche taxes. The local government and schools analogy is apt for federal spending as well. It is better to just keep the moderately well designed tax scheme on the books.

In other news I agreed with you twice yesterday, I had to go wash my hands over and over but it just wouldn't come off. ///

552 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:49:31am

re: #550 laZardo

Goddammit.

/goes to get Sharpie marker and brick

553 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:52:07am

re: #547 Decatur Deb

I'm not qualified to say. Did you catch the questions on carnivals/Homeland Security upthread?

I saw the article, I have no idea why HS would be directly involved with investigating a carnival ride accident, unless they had some indication that there was sabotage or something of that nature.

Oh, I was being sarcastic on the "god" and liberal comments. Humor.

554 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:52:10am

re: #548 Decatur Deb

I am very glad to have this oasis of sensibility. Unfortunately, as with Tom Campbell here in California, the noise drowns out the substance of the issues. Saw a funny one on Meg Whitman who is spending on her campaign at record levels. On a platform of fiscal restraint.

555 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:55:25am

re: #553 Walter L. Newton

I saw the article, I have no idea why HS would be directly involved with investigating a carnival ride accident, unless they had some indication that there was sabotage or something of that nature.

Oh, I was being sarcastic on the "god" and liberal comments. Humor.

When I worked at Army installation-level we had to deal with traveling shows once or twice a year. There were very few standards to apply, though there are more "voluntary" rules being adopted to forestall regulation.

556 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:55:42am

re: #541 Rightwingconspirator

Oh good grief. I just saw the Code Pink disruption of a Karl Rove book event. They tried to arrest him as a war criminal.
Between the Tea Bag party, Hutaree and Code Pink I just want to hibernate through this election cycle.

557 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:55:46am

re: #543 NJDhockeyfan

Marine's father ordered to pay Westboro's court costs

Fred Phelps is a dick in the highest order. I don't have very kind words for his followers, either.

558 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:58:05am

re: #555 Decatur Deb

When I worked at Army installation-level we had to deal with traveling shows once or twice a year. There were very few standards to apply, though there are more "voluntary" rules being adopted to forestall regulation.

Very good, you know the "jargon." Yes, they are called "shows." Regulation varies from state to state, and there is a lot of "turning ones head" between local officials and show operators.

559 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 6:58:43am

This is a pretty horrific read about the brutality of war and revenge.

The Moscow subway blast may be the latest attack by "Black Widows," women avenging loved ones lost in the Chechen wars.
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]


The metro suicide blasts, which left 38 dead, are believed to have been the work of two such women, who may have been avenging the killing of Said Buryatsky earlier this month by Russia’s Federal Security Service, or FSB. A Muslim convert born as Alexander Tikhomirov, Buryatsky was the chief ideologist for the Chechen rebels, who seek independence for their republic from Moscow. One of the suicide bombers blew herself up during the morning rush hour at Lubyanka metro station, which serves the nearby headquarters of the FSB.
......
The image, however, should not have been surprising. The two Chechen wars, fought in 1994-96 and 1999-2000, were almost unparalleled in their barbarity in the postwar era. The women of Chechnya regularly witnessed the abduction of their husbands, fathers, and brothers, whom Chechen tradition treats as their protectors. In some cases, they were involved in trying to ransom them from Russian custody, an exercise that usually ended with them having to pay to receive a mutilated corpse.

The result was a desire for revenge and a break with the Chechen tradition that men do not send women into war. The Black Widows have participated in two-thirds of the almost 40 rebel attacks that have killed about 900 persons in Russia in the last ten years. In the words of the murdered Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya, they “are trying to force Russians to feel the same pain that they have felt.”

560 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:00:18am

re: #558 Walter L. Newton

Very good, you know the "jargon." Yes, they are called "shows." Regulation varies from state to state, and there is a lot of "turning ones head" between local officials and show operators.

Yeah, some were well-run, and some were nightmares (and there were always lots of tickets for inspectors).

561 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:03:47am

Off to the eye doc. BBL

562 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:04:41am

re: #560 Decatur Deb

Yeah, some were well-run, and some were nightmares (and there were always lots of tickets for inspectors).

Yep... give that gentleman a prize.

563 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:07:08am

re: #559 RogueOne

They must be the polar opposites/evil doppelgangers of Cuba's Ladies in White.

564 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:07:40am

Even though the temperature on the whole Jerusalem construction fiasco has turned down a bit and other news items have overtaken it, Jerusalem still seems to linger in the background. Especially after last night's "Next year in Jerusalem!".

Here is a fantastic music video by Matisyahu on Jerusalem, based on Psalm 137:

If I forget you, O Jerusalem,
may my right hand forget its skill .

May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth
if I do not remember you,
if I do not consider Jerusalem
my highest joy.

Kind of an old video at this point, but always worth watching again.

565 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:08:19am

re: #564 Joo-LiZ

Whatever happened with Cast Lead II anyway?

566 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:10:42am

another Daily Beast story, this one much lighter than the last:

Which Party Has The Most Sex Scandals?
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]


With every other issue devolving into partisan finger-pointing, The Daily Beast thought it would use two decades of cold, hard data and rational methodology to answer the question everyone in Washington wants to know: Which party has more problems with sex scandals?

After studying the 58 scandals over the past 20 years involving all politicians or major candidates for city mayor and above—many involved crimes, others just allegations, but all wound up as tabloid fodder—some conclusions can be reached.

* The number sex scandals has increased dramatically over the past few decades, thanks to technology, new press standards and a post-Clinton belief that everything is fair game.
* Republicans have more scandals (32 to 26), but Democrats have bigger ones, based on our methodology (13 out of the top 20).
* Democrats tend to have more problems with harassment, staffers and underage girls; Republicans tend to have more problems with prostitutes, hypocrisy and underage boys.

They have it all broken down nicely at the link. The science is settled so to speak.

567 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:10:46am

Mornin' all. Happy Passover!

568 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:10:49am

re: #559 RogueOne

This is a pretty horrific read about the brutality of war and revenge.

The Moscow subway blast may be the latest attack by "Black Widows," women avenging loved ones lost in the Chechen wars.
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

Of course -- this is just another example of the media rationalizing and excusing the terror attacks.

"It's okay, those Russians deserved it, because of what was done in Chechnya".

569 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:12:17am

re: #566 RogueOne
It just proves both sides can't keep their pants zipped. Assholes they are.

570 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:14:47am

re: #568 Joo-LiZ

Of course -- this is just another example of the media rationalizing and excusing the terror attacks.

"It's okay, those Russians deserved it, because of what was done in Chechnya".

I'm not a fan of Islam in general, or terrorists in particular, but you cannot make the argument that the russian hands are clean in this whole nasty episode. If you want to know what makes a person strap on a bomb belt and kill themselves then the horrific atrocities in this war is a good place to start. This war is nothing like the pali/israeli conflict so don't make the leap that somehow the russians are blameless here.

571 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:15:30am

[Link: www.dallasnews.com...]

and murder in AZ...

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Mexicans continue to impose their will, while the US sits on it's ass

572 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:17:00am

re: #568 Joo-LiZ

Of course -- this is just another example of the media rationalizing and excusing the terror attacks.

"It's okay, those Russians deserved it, because of what was done in Chechnya".

Nothing like a terror attack to get eveyone pinbaloing all over the board.

Nobody deserved to die in the subway attacks, just as nobody deserved to die in the bombing and reoccupation of Grozny in the 90's.

Russia has been kicking Chechnya around for two centuries, the Chechens are in the position that they have few options but to strike out in desperation. Although I don't see how this attack could possibly help their cause, it will simply lead to more retaliation and violence.

573 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:18:54am

re: #571 albusteve
FNC ran a thing this morning on a 4th generation rancher in AZ who helped illegals and..wait for it...was found shot to death by a coyote. Yep I'm all warm and fuzzy with immigration reform. Let's just open the borders. The hell with control of our soveriegnty,

574 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:22:31am

re: #572 ralphieboy

True. Imagine if Israel used the same tactics as the russians in dealing with the pali's. The world would throw such a collective fit that I don't think Israel would be able to survive as a nation.

575 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:24:49am

re: #574 RogueOne
The Russians can do what they want. The international press corps doesn't have the access in Russia they do in Israel. Not to mention, this isn't da ebil zionists oppressing the freedom loving Palis!/

576 AK-47%  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:25:29am

re: #573 pingjockey

FNC ran a thing this morning on a 4th generation rancher in AZ who helped illegals and..wait for it...was found shot to death by a coyote. Yep I'm all warm and fuzzy with immigration reform. Let's just open the borders. The hell with control of our soveriegnty,


We got two choices: seal the borders and keep everybody out, or open them up and register and regulate all the people crossing it. Wither way is expensive and would lead to heaps of new Federal bureaucracy. And nobody seems to want that.

577 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:26:14am

re: #572 ralphieboy


Stop talking sense good sir.

578 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:27:16am

re: #572 ralphieboy

Russia will re-define going "midieval on their ass"...

579 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:27:43am

re: #576 ralphieboy
Yep. We have to do something, but I'll be damned if I can think of a solution. 99% of the illegals here in eastern WA are good folks and I could deal with an amnesty program. But it's the 1%ers we're having the trouble with and the goddamn drug cartels.

580 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:29:32am

re: #576 ralphieboy

re: #579 pingjockey

Could try something 'in between.' There are UAVs and other high-tech methods that can be used to monitor the border rather than simply 'one big fence.'

At the same time, US immigration is a CLUSTERFUCK. The increase of bureaucracy needed to register everyone (and share data among relevant agencies) could be compensated for by efficiency if a lot of red tape was cut.

581 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:30:15am

re: #573 pingjockey

FNC ran a thing this morning on a 4th generation rancher in AZ who helped illegals and..wait for it...was found shot to death by a coyote. Yep I'm all warm and fuzzy with immigration reform. Let's just open the borders. The hell with control of our soveriegnty,

I was down in that exact area a few weeks ago and posted about the presence of the BP...but they were not at the border, they were inland looking for illegals, and once they get in it is nearly impossible to find them if they are smart...at that point they could do whatever they want including killing people

582 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:30:45am

Anyone else notice Zombie is now writing for PJM or am I the last to know everything.

583 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:31:34am

re: #576 ralphieboy

We could call it the "Federal Get The Fuck Off My Lawn!" authority.

584 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:31:53am

re: #582 RogueOne

I don't go to other sites.

585 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:33:42am

re: #580 laZardo
The whole gubmint runs on red tape and I don't see it changing. Rather I see it getting worse. More gubmin't, more red tape. Gaaah.

586 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:34:02am

re: #584 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Siteist!

587 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:34:15am

re: #583 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We could call it the "Federal Get The Fuck Off My Lawn!" authority.

And put Clint Eastwood in charge!

588 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:34:18am

re: #584 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't go to other sites.

Instapundit had a link to a photo gallery and I happened to notice the name and got curious.

589 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:34:23am

no illegal is just going to walk up to this thing and cross over it...say what you want
Image: border-fence.jpg

590 Slap  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:34:50am

re: #274 bratwurst

Sparks! Saw 'em when Gleaming Spires were their backing band, at the 930 Club in DC (back when it was a barely-respectable toilet of a facility). Amazing energy. And did you know they were incredible soothsayers? Punditry personified:

I Predict!

(This was the line-up I saw, btw....love dem Spires....)

591 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:35:53am

re: #589 albusteve

It can do double duty... stop Americans from fleeing the coming death panels.

592 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:36:14am

re: #585 pingjockey

True that. Gotta please the voters.

593 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:36:18am

re: #589 albusteve

no illegal is just going to walk up to this thing and cross over it...say what you want
[Link: democraticspace.com...]

Won't happen. Politicians are more worried about keeping their jobs than doing what needs to be done.

594 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:36:41am

re: #593 Cannadian Club Akbar

Won't happen. Politicians are more worried about keeping their jobs than doing what needs to be done.

for emphasis...

595 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:36:52am

re: #591 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It can do double duty... stop Americans from fleeing the coming death panels.

Mexico is a death panel

596 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:38:23am

re: #590 Slap

I saw Mick Ronson and Ian Hunter at the old 9:30 club, I think when I was in high school.

597 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:38:36am

BBIAW, off to spend my huge tax return on new tires for the wifes pick up.

598 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:40:01am

OT, BUT ON T...

I am blessed to live in a country where the fences and walls are not designed to keep me in.

599 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:40:19am

re: #593 Cannadian Club Akbar

Won't happen. Politicians are more worried about keeping their jobs than doing what needs to be done.

another poster belittles me and laughs in my face when I propose fences...claiming they are utterly ineffectual...you tell me, after crossing the desert, if you think a fence like that imposes a challenge....how is an illegal going to cross it?...not easily

600 Slap  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:41:48am

re: #589 albusteve

I dunno -- as one who lived in West Berlin for a year before the fall, I can tell you that humans are incredibly persistent when it comes to finding ways to breach walls. And I've never seen an instance where walls designed to separate populations ended up having long-term positive effects.

No problem here with addressing immigration reform. BIG problem with walls.

601 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:42:12am

People get creative with Peeps.

602 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:43:03am

re: #600 Slap

Howabout mutant sea bass with frickin' lasers attached to their frickin' heads?

603 Slap  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:44:38am

re: #602 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Maybe mutant sea bass, yeah!

(As long as they don't endanger the native fishies!)

604 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:45:24am

Lady Gaga vs. Middle East Peace.

Pop quiz—What does more to galvanize radical anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world: (a) Israeli settlements on the West Bank; or (b) a Lady Gaga music video?

Excellent "why they hate us" article.

605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:45:50am

re: #603 Slap

Sorry. Native fishies are screwed...

606 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:46:09am

re: #602 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Howabout mutant sea bass with frickin' lasers attached to their frickin' heads?

heh,, even your mini-you would be huge!!

//

607 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:46:23am

re: #582 RogueOne

Anyone else notice Zombie is now writing for PJM or am I the last to know everything.

Yeah, I noticed that. I was actually wondering, does zombie still post here or was there a falling out with Charles?

608 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:46:33am

It is the anger of small town and Middle American folks who have never been to Manhattan, who put their savings in a community bank and borrow from a local credit union, who watch Washington lawmakers and presidents of both parties hand billions in taxpayer bailouts to the reckless Wall Street titans who brought down the economy in 2008.

Most of the angry are not out marching in the streets, waving signs or shouting into bullhorns. And they are not smashing windows or phoning death threats to politicians. They are simply waking up angry in the morning, and going to bed angry at night. And their resentment is multiplied by the media's efforts to portray them all as dangerous, crazy people, and by the effort of certain Democrats to tar them with brush of violent intent.

James Gannon
Am Spectator

609 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:46:59am

re: #606 sattv4u2
A lot of people don't get that my nic originates there.

610 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:47:04am

Tampa is trying to get the 2012 GOP convention. I need to work on my "mocking skills." For both sides. Heh.

611 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:47:11am

This morning Drudge is linking to a Pat Buchanan article at WND.....
The Real Anti-Americans (via google)

Not since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 made "some Americans run off the rails," said Rich, have we seen anything like this.

Was Rich awake in 1964? Because it wasn't the right that went off the rails. The really big riot in 1964 was in Harlem, lasting five days, with 500 injured and as many arrested. The Watts riot in 1965, Detroit and Newark in 1967, Washington, D.C., and 100 other cities in 1968, all bringing troops into American cities, were not the work of George Wallace populists or Barry Goldwater conservatives. They were the work of folks who went "all the way with LBJ."

612 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:47:13am

re: #607 Joo-LiZ

Yeah, I noticed that. I was actually wondering, does zombie still post here or was there a falling out with Charles?

a falling out

that is all!

613 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:47:30am

re: #607 Joo-LiZ

I wouldn't exactly call it a falling out...

614 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:48:13am

re: #610 Cannadian Club Akbar

Tampa is trying to get the 2012 GOP convention. I need to work on my "mocking skills." For both sides. Heh.

The skills are strong in this one, Obi-wan.

615 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:48:14am

re: #609 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A lot of people don't get that my nic originates there.

hell ,, a lot of people ask if i'm a transvestite becauase of my nic

satTV4u2

NTTAWWT

616 darthstar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:48:21am

re: #589 albusteve

no illegal is just going to walk up to this thing and cross over it...say what you want
[Link: democraticspace.com...]

meh...The Berlin Wall had mine fields around it and people still got through.

617 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:48:49am

re: #570 RogueOne

I'm not a fan of Islam in general, or terrorists in particular, but you cannot make the argument that the russian hands are clean in this whole nasty episode. If you want to know what makes a person strap on a bomb belt and kill themselves then the horrific atrocities in this war is a good place to start. This war is nothing like the pali/israeli conflict so don't make the leap that somehow the russians are blameless here.

I agree with that. I am not saying Russia is innocent in this at ALL.

I just dislike the media's tendency to portray terror as a natural, almost reflexive response, as opposed to a cold and calculated response.

618 darthstar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:49:16am

re: #600 Slap

I dunno -- as one who lived in West Berlin for a year before the fall, I can tell you that humans are incredibly persistent when it comes to finding ways to breach walls. And I've never seen an instance where walls designed to separate populations ended up having long-term positive effects.

No problem here with addressing immigration reform. BIG problem with walls.

Heh...didn't see your response before posting mine.

619 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:49:44am

re: #612 sattv4u2

a falling out

that is all!

re: #613 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wouldn't exactly call it a falling out...

Gotcha... thanks.

620 Slap  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:50:30am

re: #618 darthstar

Is OK. I'm not sure I saw it, either.

621 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:51:47am

re: #589 albusteve

no illegal is just going to walk up to this thing and cross over it...say what you want
[Link: democraticspace.com...]

There was the story of the two brothers that built an ultralight aircraft with Red Star decals for a disguise, to airlift-rescue a third from East Berlin...

622 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:51:58am

re: #619 Joo-LiZ

Gotcha... thanks.

LGF,, presenting all sides!!!

623 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:53:22am

re: #608 albusteve

It is the anger of small town and Middle American folks who have never been to Manhattan, who put their savings in a community bank and borrow from a local credit union, who watch Washington lawmakers and presidents of both parties hand billions in taxpayer bailouts to the reckless Wall Street titans who brought down the economy in 2008.

Most of the angry are not out marching in the streets, waving signs or shouting into bullhorns. And they are not smashing windows or phoning death threats to politicians. They are simply waking up angry in the morning, and going to bed angry at night. And their resentment is multiplied by the media's efforts to portray them all as dangerous, crazy people, and by the effort of certain Democrats to tar them with brush of violent intent.

James Gannon
Am Spectator

That's all well and good, except the TeaBaggers aren't upset at the banks. They are upset at the Democrats who are enacting Health Care Reform. And they are rallying in support of Republicans who are doing everything they can to derail any meaningful financial reforms in this country. If the tea party movement is a populist movement to strip power away from megabanks, they shouldn't be using FreedomWorks to organize their events.

624 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:54:12am

re: #617 Joo-LiZ

The use of terror as a means of fighting is not a new thing - it's in the arsenal of every armed group to some extent or another.

To halt any discussion of the topic as being anything other than pure driven evil stops at the surface of any event - to prevent future events one must understand past ones and to not examine is utterly counter productive.

625 laZardo  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:55:53am

Gotta head to bed. At least I have a half-day of work tomorrow, as our Easter Weekend starts on Thursday.

And then there's the simulated marketing plan I have to draft before Monday. 8D GOOD TIMES!

/nighty

626 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:56:35am

re: #616 darthstar

meh...The Berlin Wall had mine fields around it and people still got through.

how many?...fewer than if there was no wall I'd bet

627 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:57:17am

My one "down with the man" post for the day:

Jonathan Ayers and Eric Cantor
[Link: www.theagitator.com...]


Let me be clear, here. I don’t in any way condone threats or violence against politicians.

That said, it would be nice if the media and our elected officials would get half as outraged when agents of the government kill innocent Americans as they’ve gotten about this recent spate of bricks tossed through office windows and empty threats posted on YouTube.

628 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:57:29am

re: #609 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A lot of people don't get that my nic originates there.

And all this time I just figured that you're
A) portly
B) do't eat meat
and
C) a,, ummm,, well ,,,

629 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:58:18am

re: #628 sattv4u2


C) a,, ummm,, well ,,,

Inglorious

630 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:58:33am

re: #623 drcordell

That's all well and good, except the TeaBaggers aren't upset at the banks. They are upset at the Democrats who are enacting Health Care Reform. And they are rallying in support of Republicans who are doing everything they can to derail any meaningful financial reforms in this country. If the tea party movement is a populist movement to strip power away from megabanks, they shouldn't be using FreedomWorks to organize their events.

the whole pint of the blurb is that not all the angry people are TBs....that seems obvious

631 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 7:59:29am

re: #628 sattv4u2

He's not portly, he's undertall.
/

632 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:00:45am

re: #630 albusteve

the whole pint of the blurb is that not all the angry people are TBs...that seems obvious


Donchya know

ANYONE that opposses anything this admin does is a "teabagger"
All "teabaggers" are racist violent right wing subversives

:)

633 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:01:43am

re: #631 Cannadian Club Akbar

He's not portly, he's undertall.
/

He would have to be 7' 11" to even out!

I KID, CUZ YA KNOW I LUB YA FVB!!

634 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:03:13am

re: #630 albusteve

the whole pint of the blurb is that not all the angry people are TBs...that seems obvious

Well, the author can't really have it both ways. If these "angry" Americans he is referring to aren't marching in the streets, how are they feeling unfairly portrayed by the media? If I'm not a teabagger, why would media coverage of loonies smashing windows with bricks reflect poorly on me?

635 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:04:18am

re: #632 sattv4u2

Donchya know

ANYONE that opposses anything this admin does is a "teabagger"
All "teabaggers" are racist violent right wing subversives

:)

No. What I'm saying is that if you're in the street with a sign that says OBAMA IS A SOSHULIST you are a teabagger. If you're just not supportive of what the administration is doing, but not acting like a psychopath, why would you be upset with media coverage of the lunatics?

636 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:04:52am

I made the bottom 10. Sweet!!

637 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:05:35am

re: #634 drcordell

Well, the author can't really have it both ways. If these "angry" Americans he is referring to aren't marching in the streets, how are they feeling unfairly portrayed by the media? If I'm not a teabagger, why would media coverage of loonies smashing windows with bricks reflect poorly on me?

you can see it right here with you very own eyes, if you opened them...people simply are discounting any distinction between lunatics and the rest of us

638 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:06:01am

re: #634 drcordell

Well, the author can't really have it both ways. If these "angry" Americans he is referring to aren't marching in the streets, how are they feeling unfairly portrayed by the media? If I'm not a teabagger, why would media coverage of loonies smashing windows with bricks reflect poorly on me?

1ST off, perhaps some of their anger now is that they are referred to as a sexual act, instead of what started as a grass roots with a name honoring a significant historic event

639 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:06:10am

Scarface as a kids school play:
[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

(via BoingBoing)

640 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:06:37am

re: #636 Cannadian Club Akbar

I made the bottom 10. Sweet!!


welcome to the club. I'll go look and add to your infamy!!

641 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:07:23am

Large Hadron Collider breaks high-energy records

Staff working on the largest, most complex scientific instrument in the world joined in a standing ovation earlier today as the machine began its long search for new particles, forces and extra dimensions of space.

Applause and cheers broke out across Cern, the European Nuclear Research Organisation near Geneva, at 12.06pm BST, the moment when subatomic particles travelling at close to the speed of light were slammed together in the machine, creating the highest energy particle collisions a laboratory has ever achieved.

The Large Hadron Collider, which took more than 15 years to design, plan and build, went back into service late last year after a massive electrical failure closed it down for 18 months of repair work in September 2008. Engineers had been running the machine at low energy before stepping up to high energy collisions today.

"It's a great day to be a particle physicist," Cern's director general, Rolf Heuer, said. "A lot of people have waited a long time for this moment, but their patience and dedication is starting to pay dividends."

642 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:07:47am

re: #551 keloyd

I agree that new tax schemes are usually put in as an addition over the old, which would completely defeat the purpose of a scheme like this. As a replacement for the current tax system, however, it has great potential-- if the financial transactions could truly be made transparent.

I completely agree that usually new taxes are applied without paying attention to the 'interference', as it were, of the old taxes.

643 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:07:52am

re: #636 Cannadian Club Akbar

I made the bottom 10. Sweet!!

Congratulations!

644 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:10:02am

re: #616 darthstar

meh...The Berlin Wall had mine fields around it and people still got through.

Yep. That's the point. People will always find a way to cross an artificial barrier, including the most elaborate fences and walls that we could put up. There is simply too much economic incentive at stake, whether it's a job on this side for the illegal, or the money being made by the smugglers, or the potential profits from the drug cartels.

Hell, want to talk about incentive? Even the companies hired to build that elaborate fence will likely hire illegals to do it. It's happened before.

And if anyone thinks that every single mile of fence will be manned and guarded 24/7, they're delusional. We simply don't have the manpower.

The same billions that we'd waste on a fence would be better spent overhauling legal immigration and on increasing our Border Patrol's manpower, as well as aiding local law enforcement along both the Mexican and Canadian borders to stem the tide.

645 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:11:15am

re: #637 albusteve

you can see it right here with you very own eyes, if you opened them...people simply are discounting any distinction between lunatics and the rest of us

Some examples? I certainly haven't seen it with my own eyes. I know plenty of people who are completely unsupportive of Obama's health care reforms that don't feel lumped in with the 'baggers. If you aren't crazy, I don't see how any rational person would lump you in with the crazies. If a person's idea of "moderate" means being unable to recite any opposition to ObamaCare without screaming "death panels" then I can see how they might be lumped in with the mouth-breathers.

646 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:12:07am

re: #636 Cannadian Club Akbar

I made the bottom 10. Sweet!!

hey ,, I just checked

liar liar pants on fire

You're name isn't there

But our very own good DrCordell does have 5 out of the bottom 10!!

647 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:12:07am

Since both sides are excited by this video....
Al Franken's Video Smack Down Of Andrew Breitbart's Henchman

Franken never gets to answer the question about 7 million dollars for jungle gyms but it's easy enough to check the bill....

(i) creating healthier school environments, including increasing healthy food options, physical activity opportunities, promotion of healthy lifestyle, emotional wellness, and prevention curricula, and activities to prevent chronic diseases;
(ii) creating the infrastructure to support active living and access to nutritious foods in a safe environment;

Wingnuts need to learn that facts are too easy to check and lying about what's in the bill is not going to sway intelligent people.

648 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:12:18am

Pilgrims to be offered '3-D view' of Turin Shroud

Church authorities in Turin have condemned plans to sell 3-D spectacles to pilgrims viewing the Holy Shroud, held by many to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ but regarded by sceptics as a medieval forgery, when it goes on display for six weeks after Easter.

Cardinal Severino Poletto, the Archbishop of Turin, said the proposal was a private initiative which did not have the approval of the archdiocese or the commission that is responsible for the Shroud. Using 3-D glasses would not enhance either the image of the body on the cloth or its spiritual value, the cardinal said.

The local branch of the Salesian order said it was intrigued by the idea and would offer the glasses for sale in its Turin bookshop. Il Giornale said there was a “holy war” in Turin over the concept of “viewing the shroud in the same way as Avatar or Alice in Wonderland”.

The idea was launched by Bruno Fabbiani, an expert at Turin Polytechnic in holography and printed images, who said it would enable pilgrims to see details invisible to the naked eye, such as the wounds on the figure of the "crucified man" on the linen cloth.

649 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:13:04am

re: #641 NJDhockeyfan

Large Hadron Collider breaks high-energy records

nothing better than waking up with a large hadron!

650 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:13:31am

re: #645 drcordell

Some examples? I certainly haven't seen it with my own eyes. I know plenty of people who are completely unsupportive of Obama's health care reforms that don't feel lumped in with the 'baggers. If you aren't crazy, I don't see how any rational person would lump you in with the crazies. If a person's idea of "moderate" means being unable to recite any opposition to ObamaCare without screaming "death panels" then I can see how they might be lumped in with the mouth-breathers.

I'll remember that next time you go off on republicans, the GOP and conservatives in general

651 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:13:41am

re: #646 sattv4u2

hey ,, I just checked

liar liar pants on fire

You're name isn't there

But our very own good DrCordell does have 5 out of the bottom 10!!

I checked it before I posted. Crap. I'll try harder.
/

652 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:14:04am

re: #646 sattv4u2

hey ,, I just checked

liar liar pants on fire

You're name isn't there

But our very own good DrCordell does have 5 out of the bottom 10!!

I ruined it for him. The bottom 10 for the last couple of days has been weak. We should all be ashamed.

653 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:14:36am

re: #638 sattv4u2

1ST off, perhaps some of their anger now is that they are referred to as a sexual act, instead of what started as a grass roots with a name honoring a significant historic event

Yeah Dick Armey and FreedomWorks are real grassroots. I didn't fall off the back of a fucking turnip truck. I understand the difference between grassroots and astroturf. Yeah, there is real anger out there about what is going on. But much of it has been fomented by mis-information distributed by corporate-funded organizations such as FreedomWorks. Not to mention Fox News' roll in hyping and creating the "tea party" movement that exists today.

654 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:14:44am

re: #651 Cannadian Club Akbar

I checked it before I posted. Crap. I'll try harder.
/

repost the "offensive" missive here

We'll see if we can't drum up some downding support for you,

655 darthstar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:15:20am

re: #644 Lidane

I just think the razor-wire/moat/DMZ/moat/razor-wire style fantasy fence Steve posted is stupid. Makes us look like paranoid freaks. Dear god! They might start selling Chiclets in San Diego...then Salt Lake City, then Chicago!

656 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:15:49am

re: #653 drcordell

Yeah Dick Armey and FreedomWorks are real grassroots. I didn't fall off the back of a fucking turnip truck. I understand the difference between grassroots and astroturf. Yeah, there is real anger out there about what is going on. But much of it has been fomented by mis-information distributed by corporate-funded organizations such as FreedomWorks. Not to mention Fox News' roll in hyping and creating the "tea party" movement that exists today.


Waytomissthepoint.

657 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:16:02am

re: #652 RogueOne

I ruined it for him. The bottom 10 for the last couple of days has been weak. We should all be ashamed.

I mean, when a -2 post is on the bottom 10 we really aren't trying very hard. I guess there haven't been too many epic flounces lately?

658 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:17:08am

I managed to make it two days in a row last week but I had to try a little. No one cares enough anymore.//

659 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:17:09am

re: #657 drcordell

I have a sneaking feeling that younglibertarian is back. I can feel it in my water.

660 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:17:14am

re: #656 sattv4u2

Waytomissthepoint.

The point being these people wouldn't be nearly as upset if they weren't fed a steady diet of insurance company funded propaganda courtesy of FreedomWorks and Fox News?

661 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:18:05am

re: #660 drcordell

The point being these people wouldn't be nearly as upset if they weren't fed a steady diet of insurance company funded propaganda courtesy of FreedomWorks and Fox News?

What is it going to take for you to understand the Insurance lobby loved this bill?

662 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:18:09am

I'm sitting here at jury duty for at least the next few hours... I should be able to gin up some outrage around here eventually.

663 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:18:36am

An Article on Fences....

[Link: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...]

664 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:19:10am

re: #660 drcordell

The point being these people wouldn't be nearly as upset if they weren't fed a steady diet of insurance company funded propaganda courtesy of FreedomWorks and Fox News?

no,, the point being that anyone that has been to or agrees with the sentiments of the protest movement is now labeled with a derisive sexual term. But carry on

665 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:19:37am

re: #660 drcordell

The point being these people wouldn't be nearly as upset if they weren't fed a steady diet of insurance company funded propaganda courtesy of FreedomWorks and Fox News?

So they should just accept the Democrats word about health care as fact and be done with it? Questioning our government is out of the question?

666 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:19:38am

re: #662 drcordell

I'm sitting here at jury duty for at least the next few hours... I should be able to gin up some outrage around here eventually.

Tell them you support the death penalty, regardless of what the case is. They'll let you go.:)

667 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:20:06am

re: #661 RogueOne

The insurers were talking out of both sides of their mouths through the entire process - turning up to be supportive at the whitehouse and then jumping into a flea ridden bed with the wingnuts who prayed the whole thing would go south.

Why they didn't just stfu and let the whole thing play out in congress the way they usually do - by thorwing higher bribes and campaign contributions i don't know.

The insurers are a very large part of the concience of the senior senator from CT.

668 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:20:15am

re: #661 RogueOne

What is it going to take for you to understand the Insurance lobby loved this bill?

but, But, BUT the President told drcordell that the insurance companies are eeeebbbiillll!!!

669 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:20:18am

re: #665 NJDhockeyfan

So they should just accept the Democrats word about health care as fact and be done with it? Questioning our government is out of the question?

No, it's patriotic. Hillary said so.

670 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:20:43am

re: #661 RogueOne

What is it going to take for you to understand the Insurance lobby loved this bill?

What is it going to take for you to understand that they can simultaneously be working with Democrats to get the most possible out of the bill, while also using lies and misinformation to turn the entire debate into a complete and utter shitstorm?

Obviously they accomplished their goals, because riling up the teaparties ensured that the public option had absolutely NO shot of being implemented. Because they were so successful at getting the plebes riled up, we ended up with Richard Nixon's healthcare reform. And it's a direct result of the climate of fear created by their misinformation campaign.

671 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:22:29am

re: #670 drcordell

What is it going to take for you to understand that they can simultaneously be working with Democrats to get the most possible out of the bill, while also using lies and misinformation to turn the entire debate into a complete and utter shitstorm?

Obviously they accomplished their goals, because riling up the teaparties ensured that the public option had absolutely NO shot of being implemented. Because they were so successful at getting the plebes riled up, we ended up with Richard Nixon's healthcare reform. And it's a direct result of the climate of fear created by their misinformation campaign.

Whoa....watch out for black helicopters on the way home.

672 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:22:29am

re: #655 darthstar

It's not that it makes us look like paranoid freaks. It's that it's a massive waste of billions of dollars that could be better spent on other things.

673 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:22:42am

Man, political ads are already starting on my radio. Gonna be a long summer.

674 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:22:49am

re: #665 NJDhockeyfan

So they should just accept the Democrats word about health care as fact and be done with it? Questioning our government is out of the question?

No. That's not what I said at all. Maybe they should actually think for themselves instead of letting a corporate-funded shell organization claim to speak for them? Perhaps form a REAL grassroots organization instead of one that is a glorified corporate PAC with ties to the insurance, oil and coal industries?

Nowhere did I say that these people don't have a right to be upset. But when their anger is completely misdirected, uninformed, and channeled through a corporate entity, I have a hard time respecting it.

675 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:23:59am

re: #671 NJDhockeyfan

Whoa...watch out for black helicopters on the way home.

I'm a paranoid conspiracy theorist because I am intelligent enough to realize that the insurance companies are *GASP* playing both sides?

676 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:24:10am

re: #667 wozzablog

The insurers were talking out of both sides of their mouths through the entire process - turning up to be supportive at the whitehouse and then jumping into a flea ridden bed with the wingnuts who prayed the whole thing would go south.

Why they didn't just stfu and let the whole thing play out in congress the way they usually do - by thorwing higher bribes and campaign contributions i don't know.

The insurers are a very large part of the concience of the senior senator from CT.

This bill was a boon to the insurance, pharma, and doctors lobbies. What's not to like? Everyone has to pay up or be fined, the doc's are getting their medicare fix, and the insurance rates are going to go through the roof. Sure, they capped the percentage of profit they're allowed to make but when you raise their revenue it increases their bottom line regardless. It's a win/win/win for everyone except taxpayers.

677 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:25:24am

re: #674 drcordell

But when their anger is completely misdirected, uninformed, and channeled through a corporate entity,

So how many and how often have you railed against Soros funded groups?

678 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:25:31am

re: #673 Cannadian Club Akbar

Man, political ads are already starting on my radio. Gonna be a long summer.

It's going to be a long rest of our nation's history. Thanks to my little avatar buddy John, the ads can run year round.

679 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:25:46am

Pro-Life Democrats Who Switched Vote for Health Bill Request Billions in Earmarks

The 11 House Democrats led by Rep. Bart Stupak who dropped their opposition to health care reform mere hours before the final vote have requested $3.4 billion in earmarks -- and one watchdog group wants to know whether the money represents business as usual, or a political payoff.

The 11 House Democrats led by Rep. Bart Stupak who dropped their opposition to health care reform legislation mere hours before the final vote have requested $3.4 billion in earmarks -- and one watchdog group wants to know whether the money represents business as usual or political payoffs.

The Sunlight Foundation says it plans to track the earmark requests, which were put in one day after health care reform cleared Congress, to see whether they're approved and whether it appears lawmakers are being rewarded for their vote.

"We know that in Congress one of the ways that leadership tries to influence members is through earmarks," said Bill Allison, editorial director at the nonpartisan organization. "So this seemed to us something good to follow."

Stupak and the 10 other Democrats were critical to the success of the health care bill. They were holding out over concerns about funding for abortion coverage but announced the president had assuaged their worries -- with an executive order restricting abortion funding -- the morning of the big vote.

Stupak's office said there's absolutely no link between the earmarks and the health care bill's passage.

/follow the money

680 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:26:20am

re: #672 Lidane

It's not that it makes us look like paranoid freaks. It's that it's a massive waste of billions of dollars that could be better spent on other things.

other things?....like this?
[Link: www.examiner.com...]

681 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:26:35am

re: #676 RogueOne

The insurance rates have been going through the roof for twenty years.

We have already been paying for the care of the uninsured-- we being taxpayers and those with insurance.

Yes, it is too bad that private insurers are still allowed to rent-seek, and I still hold that the amount of regulation necessary to make health insurance companies actually provide quality health insurance to sick people makes it less desirable than an actual public system.

However, it seems very odd to blame insurance rate hikes on the this bill, when the insurance companies have been hiking their rates for decades now.

682 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:27:12am

re: #678 drcordell

It's going to be a long rest of our nation's history. Thanks to my little avatar buddy John, the ads can run year round.

Damn that man, upholding that antiquicated piece of rubbish of a constitution!
/

683 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:27:49am

re: #677 sattv4u2

But when their anger is completely misdirected, uninformed, and channeled through a corporate entity,

So how many and how often have you railed against Soros funded groups?

Sure you don't belong on FreeRepublic? Soros? Really?

Honestly, you're missing my point here. FreedomWorks is more than welcome to do whatever it wishes. So is Soros. But you sure as HELL ain't going to find me taking the day off work to volunteer for a Soros-funded political group.

684 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:28:11am

re: #681 Obdicut

There was a story out earlier this week saying the rates are going to jump 17% this year alone. All this bill did was make a bad situation worse.

685 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:28:23am

re: #647 Killgore Trout

What the hell is wrong with spending money on athletic facilities, etc., anyway?

I'm not getting the guy's objection. Is it just "The constitution doesn't say anything about jungle gyms"?

686 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:29:18am

re: #682 sattv4u2

Damn that man, upholding that antiquicated piece of rubbish of a constitution!
/

Funny how we had managed just fine without his ruling for the past 200 years.

687 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:29:35am

re: #664 sattv4u2

no,, the point being that anyone that has been to or agrees with the sentiments of the protest movement is now labeled with a derisive sexual term. But carry on

A sexual term they embraced before they realized what it actually meant, BTW. It's their own fault that nobody over 50 in the teabagger movement could use Google to find out what teabagging someone really was.

688 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:30:00am

re: #683 drcordell

Sure you don't belong on FreeRepublic? Soros? Really?

Honestly, you're missing my point here. FreedomWorks is more than welcome to do whatever it wishes. So is Soros. But you sure as HELL ain't going to find me taking the day off work to volunteer for a Soros-funded political group.


I'll state this as politley as possible

FUCK YOU
Why when we talk (and not just you and I ,, you and just about anyone on the right here) you have to throw a derisive shot

Let me repeat

FUCK YOU

689 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:30:17am

re: #685 Obdicut

What the hell is wrong with spending money on athletic facilities, etc., anyway?

I'm not getting the guy's objection. Is it just "The constitution doesn't say anything about jungle gyms"?

they are unsafe...children will be injured, get rid of them...throw them on the teeter totter pile

690 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:30:47am

re: #684 RogueOne

There was a story out earlier this week saying the rates are going to jump 17% this year alone. All this bill did was make a bad situation worse.

That first sentence and that second sentence are entirely disconnected from each other. It's just an assertion with no force behind it.

My rates jumped 24% last year, and 37% this year. The Kaiser Foundation found that rates have risen 131% since 1999, as compared to 28% inflation.

691 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:30:50am

re: #680 albusteve

And as I told you when you first posted that, it's a stupid move that I disagree with.

I agree that we need to spend money to fix illegal immigration. I just happen to think that a fence or wall is a monumentally stupid idea that won't do anything but waste billions of dollars.

692 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:31:04am

re: #684 RogueOne

There was a story out earlier this week saying the rates are going to jump 17% this year alone. All this bill did was make a bad situation worse.

Yeah, and in exchange for that 17% hike they can't deny you for a pre-existing condition, rescind your policy when you actually get sick, or screw you in any number of other ways.

And guess how much your rates were going to go up without HCR passing? 17%. Don't you realize that insurance rates have gone up double-digit percentages every year regardless of what Congress does? At least we're getting something for it this time.

693 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:31:27am

re: #689 albusteve

they are unsafe...children will be injured, get rid of them...throw them on the teeter totter pile

Remember the SNL skit where Dan Akroyd had a kids toy called "bag of broken glass?" That shit was funny.

694 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:32:01am

re: #691 Lidane

And as I told you when you first posted that, it's a stupid move that I disagree with.

I agree that we need to spend money to fix illegal immigration. I just happen to think that a fence or wall is a monumentally stupid idea that won't do anything but waste billions of dollars.

I'll be waiting for you solutions

695 KingKenrod  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:32:16am

re: #685 Obdicut

What the hell is wrong with spending money on athletic facilities, etc., anyway?

I'm not getting the guy's objection. Is it just "The constitution doesn't say anything about jungle gyms"?

My objection is why does something like this have to be funneled through Washington? Seems inefficient and impractical.

696 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:32:28am

re: #686 drcordell

Funny how we had managed just fine without his ruling for the past 200 years.


So by that logic we should toss out voting rights for women? Civil rights for minorities??

697 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:33:35am

re: #692 drcordell

I really like it when you post things that don't contain personal insults. Then I can give you an upding.

There is nothing to be gained for the discussion by smirking invective, in my opinion. Someone 'belongs' at LGF if they can follow the rules of discussion and are not banned, and it's odious of you to tell someone they belong somewhere else. I'd defend you against the same accusation.

698 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:33:41am

Morning all! Hmm....this is interesting:

Obama Breaks Down Student Loan Overhaul

From the article:

According to the White House, "New borrowers who assume loans after July 1, 2014, will be able to cap their student loan repayments at 10 percent of their discretionary income and, if they keep up with their payments over time, will have the balance forgiven after 20 years."

What could possibly go wrong?

699 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:33:45am

re: #693 Cannadian Club Akbar

Remember the SNL skit where Dan Akroyd had a kids toy called "bag of broken glass?" That shit was funny.

"Johnny Human Torch? It's a bag of oily rags and a lighter!"

700 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:34:05am

re: #696 sattv4u2

So by that logic we should toss out voting rights for women? Civil rights for minorities??

Yes. Exactly. Giving corporations unlimited rights to spend unlimited amounts of cash on political advertisements is exactly the same as women's suffrage and the civil rights act of 1964. Perhaps even MORE important!

701 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:34:22am

re: #695 KingKenrod

Why? Have you studied the subject at all? Do you know how the disbursements will actually operate? Or is this a reflexive objection?

702 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:34:54am

re: #695 KingKenrod

My objection is why does something like this have to be funneled through Washington? Seems inefficient and impractical.

because states are broke...the school systems are going broke...it's trickle down economics, so they appeal to the feds since that is where all the money is being printed

703 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:35:12am

I'm going to mow the lawn and start my pressure washingre: #697 Obdicut

thank you

{sigh}!

704 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:35:16am

re: #698 subsailor68

Morning all! Hmm...this is interesting:

Obama Breaks Down Student Loan Overhaul

From the article:

According to the White House, "New borrowers who assume loans after July 1, 2014, will be able to cap their student loan repayments at 10 percent of their discretionary income and, if they keep up with their payments over time, will have the balance forgiven after 20 years."

What could possibly go wrong?

Heh. Who eats the balance of the 'forgiven' loans?

705 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:36:45am

re: #690 Obdicut

re: #692 drcordell

Not to be rude but you two are living in a fantasy world. If I accept the argument that Insurance rates were going to continue to climb regardless (which I do) and if I accept the argument that not allowing the Insurance companies to pick and choose their clients is a good thing (which I don't), it all still adds up to additional costs on top of current rate increases meaning more money going to insurance companies that has to come from somewhere.

The argument "rates were going to go up anyway so lets REALLY jack 'em up" is not a very effective campaign speech.

706 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:36:45am

re: #704 NJDhockeyfan

Heh. Who eats the balance of the 'forgiven' loans?

Hmm...okay, this is just a guess here, but I think I'm going with....

taxpayers?

707 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:36:56am

re: #700 drcordell

Yes. Exactly. Giving corporations unlimited rights to spend unlimited amounts of cash on political advertisements is exactly the same as women's suffrage and the civil rights act of 1964. Perhaps even MORE important!

Isee. So only the supreme court rulings that you like are important

Gotchya

708 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:37:44am

I need a nap. BBIAB.

709 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:37:45am

re: #704 NJDhockeyfan

We already have forgiveness after 25 years.

710 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:38:02am

re: #704 NJDhockeyfan

Heh. Who eats the balance of the 'forgiven' loans?

Who still believes things they read on Fox News?

711 Slap  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:38:09am

re: #608 albusteve

Granted, there's ALWAYS plenty of reasons to be yanked off at government behavior.

I have a story that might relate a bit. My 75-yr old father has long been an avid watcher of news channels (and yes, F is one of his favorites). His politics have always had the tendency to occasionally spin off into some sort of bizarro extreme view, but largely human and sane, with humor. Over the last couple of years, it's been getting harder and harder to talk to him without politics rearing its head (and, oddly, for whatever it's worth, I'm usually loath to enter into political discussions with anybody) and anger surfacing.

He called me on my birthday last year, and started spouting exact quotes from Beck, tea party spokespeople, etc. I stopped him and said Dad, you're watching too much TV news. He started spluttering (in a flouncy sort of manner) about being sick and tired about hearing how he can't think for himself. (Missing the fact that the phrases he was using were things he had never had in his vocabulary before.....). I said no, let me ask you this: are you planning on starting a petition? running for office? attending rallies? volunteering for a party, politician, or lobbying group? He said hell no. I said, you're still gonna vote, right? Hell yes was the answer.
So, I then said, you're spending a lot of time allowing yourself to get pissed off at things you can't control and won't be doing anything to actively change; you're taking the one thing you can control, which is how you respond to things, and allowing it to be hijacked. STOP WATCHING THE DAMNED NEWS CHANNELS, I said. Take a break. Watch movies that make you laugh, listen to music, watch war movies, read histories, play with your grandkids. You keep picking at a mental scab, and no wonder it's pissing you off. Stay informed, vote smart -- but revel in the good things.

He ended up calling me a couple of days later to thank me, saying he had gone the last two days without watching news channels and felt great. Relatives called me and said "what the hell did you say to him? and can we copy it?"

Not saying that's THE answer. But I believe there's a lot of people like my dad whose anger levels could benefit from less exposure to the 24-hour cycle.

712 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:38:14am

re: #705 RogueOne

re: #692 drcordell

Not to be rude but you two are living in a fantasy world. If I accept the argument that Insurance rates were going to continue to climb regardless (which I do) and if I accept the argument that not allowing the Insurance companies to pick and choose their clients is a good thing (which I don't), it all still adds up to additional costs on top of current rate increases meaning more money going to insurance companies that has to come from somewhere.

The argument "rates were going to go up anyway so lets REALLY jack 'em up" is not a very effective campaign speech.

So I take it this means you're a proponent of a single-payer public option then?

713 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:39:45am

re: #589 albusteve

no illegal is just going to walk up to this thing and cross over it...say what you want
[Link: democraticspace.com...]

People got across the East German boarder when it was far worse with guards who would be killed if they didn't shot to kill. This won't stop everyone either. Heck the big new fence they're already building has gates cut in it, IIRC.

All this would do is waste even more money.

William

714 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:40:10am

re: #710 Killgore Trout

Who still believes things they read on Fox News?

I'm sure the WH will release a statement right away about that story and correct the record.

715 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:40:28am

re: #705 RogueOne

You don't seem to be grasping my argument at all, then. If you accept rates will rise no matter what, then why are you bringing up rates rising? It seems rather irrelevant.

I also agree that health insurance companies will continue to rent-seek in the new regulatory environment. I do think the new regulations makes it harder for them to rent-seek and forces them to actually deliver insurance in better ways. It's still very far from perfect.

Can you explain the mechanism by which insurance companies will extort the money out of policy holders, given the new caps and regulations?

716 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:40:39am

re: #710 Killgore Trout

Who still believes things they read on Fox News?

That decision cost Indianapolis some private sector jobs. Do you really believe a government entity is able to do the same job cheaper than an already established private sector company? In order to believe there will be any savings that's what you have to believe is going to happen.

717 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:41:32am

re: #694 albusteve

And I'll be waiting for you to realize that a fence or wall is entirely ineffective, especially if the companies who are hired to build it largely depend on illegal labor, as is often the case with construction.

As long as there is economic incentive for companies to hire illegals, there will be economic incentive for those illegals to come here, no matter what the risks or the barriers thrown in their way. Change the economic incentives and you might stand a chance of fixing the problem. Just building a fence or wall is the equivalent of an ostrich putting its head in the sand.

718 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:41:33am

re: #711 Slap

Granted, there's ALWAYS plenty of reasons to be yanked off at government behavior.

I have a story that might relate a bit. My 75-yr old father has long been an avid watcher of news channels (and yes, F is one of his favorites). His politics have always had the tendency to occasionally spin off into some sort of bizarro extreme view, but largely human and sane, with humor. Over the last couple of years, it's been getting harder and harder to talk to him without politics rearing its head (and, oddly, for whatever it's worth, I'm usually loath to enter into political discussions with anybody) and anger surfacing.

He called me on my birthday last year, and started spouting exact quotes from Beck, tea party spokespeople, etc. I stopped him and said Dad, you're watching too much TV news. He started spluttering (in a flouncy sort of manner) about being sick and tired about hearing how he can't think for himself. (Missing the fact that the phrases he was using were things he had never had in his vocabulary before...). I said no, let me ask you this: are you planning on starting a petition? running for office? attending rallies? volunteering for a party, politician, or lobbying group? He said hell no. I said, you're still gonna vote, right? Hell yes was the answer.
So, I then said, you're spending a lot of time allowing yourself to get pissed off at things you can't control and won't be doing anything to actively change; you're taking the one thing you can control, which is how you respond to things, and allowing it to be hijacked. STOP WATCHING THE DAMNED NEWS CHANNELS, I said. Take a break. Watch movies that make you laugh, listen to music, watch war movies, read histories, play with your grandkids. You keep picking at a mental scab, and no wonder it's pissing you off. Stay informed, vote smart -- but revel in the good things.

He ended up calling me a couple of days later to thank me, saying he had gone the last two days without watching news channels and felt great. Relatives called me and said "what the hell did you say to him? and can we copy it?"

Not saying that's THE answer. But I believe there's a lot of people like my dad whose anger levels could benefit from less exposure to the 24-hour cycle.

Excellent way of describing it. My Dad is completely in that group, and yes, he's very angry. We've learned though, not to discuss it at all, and when I recently visited for a week, my dear dear Dad turned off the TV the whole time I was there.

719 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:41:45am

re: #707 sattv4u2

Isee. So only the supreme court rulings that you like are important

Gotchya

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a law, not a Supreme Court ruling. And I don't dislike **** vs FEC because it's not "important", I think it's very important. I dislike it because a non-human entity has been given the same rights as a flesh and blood person.

Obama needs to propose a Constitutional amendment stating that Corporations are NOT people. I'd love to see the GOP try and come out against that one.

720 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:42:05am

re: #711 Slap

it's no secret around here that I hate the MSM....they are in deep with the soft headed voters...AmIdol politics

721 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:42:08am

AAPS Joins In Fight To Overturn Health Care Reform

TUCSON, Ariz. (970 WFLA) - The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) became the first medical society to sue to overturn the newly enacted health care bill, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA). AAPS sued Friday in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia (AAPS v. Sebelius et al.).

“If the PPACA goes unchallenged, then it spells the end of freedom in medicine as we know it,” observed Jane Orient, M.D., the Executive Director of AAPS. “Courts should not allow this massive intrusion into the practice of medicine and the rights of patients.”

“There will be a dire shortage of physicians if the PPACA becomes effective and is not overturned by the courts.”

The PPACA requires most Americans to buy government-approved insurance starting in 2014, or face stiff penalties. Insurance company executives will be enriched by this requirement, but the AAPS says it violates the Fifth Amendment protection against the government forcing one person to pay cash to another. AAPS is the first to assert this important constitutional claim.

The PPACA also violates the Tenth Amendment, the Commerce Clause, and the provisions authorizing taxation, the AAPS says. The Taxing and Spending power cannot be invoked, as the premiums go to private insurance companies. The traditional sovereignty of the States over the practice of medicine is destroyed by the PPACA.

AAPS notes that in scoring the proposal the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) was bound by assumptions imposed by Congress, including the ability to “save” $500 billion in Medicare, and to redirect $50 billion from Social Security. HHS Secretary Sebelius stated that PPACA would reduce the federal deficit, knowing the opposite to be true if these assumptions are unrealistic.

722 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:42:19am

re: #712 drcordell

So I take it this means you're a proponent of a single-payer public option then?

How is making it worse helping? We're already eating the costs of the uninsured all we've done now is added a couple layers of paper pushers on top of the already bloated establishment and asked the people who are already paying for it all to chip in an even higher amount of money and taxes.

723 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:42:56am

re: #710 Killgore Trout

Who still believes things they read on Fox News?

depends what it is...it's my main go to source for Paris Hilton updates

724 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:43:27am

re: #716 RogueOne

That decision cost Indianapolis some private sector jobs. Do you really believe a government entity is able to do the same job cheaper than an already established private sector company? In order to believe there will be any savings that's what you have to believe is going to happen.

Go compare Medicare to any private insurance company. Look at the overhead costs, then come back and make your argument. Simply saying that "government can never do anything right" isn't a real argument. Especially when there is real empirical evidence pointing to the contrary.

725 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:44:34am

re: #721 NJDhockeyfan

AAPS Joins In Fight To Overturn Health Care Reform

"dire shortage of physicians"
no way!....unpossible!

726 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:45:19am

re: #717 Lidane

And I'll be waiting for you to realize that a fence or wall is entirely ineffective, especially if the companies who are hired to build it largely depend on illegal labor, as is often the case with construction.

As long as there is economic incentive for companies to hire illegals, there will be economic incentive for those illegals to come here, no matter what the risks or the barriers thrown in their way. Change the economic incentives and you might stand a chance of fixing the problem. Just building a fence or wall is the equivalent of an ostrich putting its head in the sand.

I agree. How bout we enforce the existing laws against hiring illegal aliens and start throwing throwing them in jail? We will see plenty of illegals sent packing back to their home countries and maybe help the unemployment numbers with all the fresh new job openings available.

727 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:45:50am

Meanwhile, in the real world.....
Student Loan Overhaul Approved by Congress

The Congressional Budget Office said the direct-lending approach would save taxpayers about $61 billion over 10 years. Roughly $40 billion of the savings will be redirected to higher education. Education programs will get an additional $10 billion from the health care package.


regarding the loan forgiveness....

The legislation will make it easier to pay back student loans, by reducing the share of income that a graduate must devote to loan payments and by accelerating loan forgiveness — but not right away. Those who take out new loans after July 1, 2014, will have to devote 10 percent of their income to payments, down from the current 15 percent, and those who keep up their payments will have their loans forgiven after 20 years, reduced from the current 25.

Rupert Murdoch wants you to be stupid.

728 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:46:22am

re: #722 RogueOne

How is making it worse helping? We're already eating the costs of the uninsured all we've done now is added a couple layers of paper pushers on top of the already bloated establishment and asked the people who are already paying for it all to chip in an even higher amount of money and taxes.

You don't think that there are ANY cost savings to be had by taking someone who would have gone to the ER for emergency medical treatment, and allowing them to pay for their own health insurance?

Even if you are subsidizing the cost, they are still paying SOMETHING towards their eventual medical treatment. As it is, someone who can't afford insurance simply goes without. Then when they go to the ER and rack up a $20,000 bill they claim financial hardship and don't pay anything at all. And that cost then gets pushed onto you and me. If they have insurance, that ER visit might be prevented by a $50 doctors visit. And even if they still require $20,000 of treatment, they have at least been paying in SOMETHING as their premium.

729 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:47:20am

re: #721 NJDhockeyfan

Sourcewatch info for the AAPS.

Contributions to the Constitution party.

[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

One of their presidents was a Discovery Institute fellow.

They made a blatantly false claim about illegal aliens and leprosy.

The Spring 2005 edition of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons contained an article[2] by Madeleine Cosman, headlined "Illegal Aliens and American Medicine," claiming, "Suddenly, in the past three years America has more than 7,000 cases of leprosy," citing a 2003 article in the New York Times as a reference. Among news outlets repeating this claim were WorldNetDaily[3] and CNN anchor Lou Dobbs. In fact, the 7,000 number in the Times article was an apparent reference to all then-current cases of leprosy in the U.S.; according to the National Hansen's Disease Program of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, there have been just 431 reported cases of Hansen's disease (leprosy) over the "past three years."[4]

They lack credibility, to say the least.

730 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:47:38am

re: #717 Lidane

And I'll be waiting for you to realize that a fence or wall is entirely ineffective, especially if the companies who are hired to build it largely depend on illegal labor, as is often the case with construction.

As long as there is economic incentive for companies to hire illegals, there will be economic incentive for those illegals to come here, no matter what the risks or the barriers thrown in their way. Change the economic incentives and you might stand a chance of fixing the problem. Just building a fence or wall is the equivalent of an ostrich putting its head in the sand.

that's a myth...total bullshit
anyway the dispute was about a fence, a means of keeping illegals out of the country...not about issues after the fact...if you've ever been to the desert near the border, I think you would change your mind...."totally ineffective" is hyperbole

731 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:48:20am

re: #726 NJDhockeyfan

How much would it cost to do that?

732 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:48:59am

re: #726 NJDhockeyfan

I agree. How bout we enforce the existing laws against hiring illegal aliens and start throwing throwing them in jail?

You ARE talking about the CEO's of the companies that depend on illegal labor, right? Those are the people who would need to be jailed in order to have even the slightest hope of changing how things are done.

Just jailing the workers? Pfft. The companies will just find more. It's no loss to them. You have to go after the big guns of those companies if you expect to make any real impact.

733 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:49:05am

re: #715 Obdicut

You don't seem to be grasping my argument at all, then. If you accept rates will rise no matter what, then why are you bringing up rates rising? It seems rather irrelevant.

I also agree that health insurance companies will continue to rent-seek in the new regulatory environment. I do think the new regulations makes it harder for them to rent-seek and forces them to actually deliver insurance in better ways. It's still very far from perfect.

Can you explain the mechanism by which insurance companies will extort the money out of policy holders, given the new caps and regulations?

You were the one who mentioned rates were already going up this year, and that's right. Anthem, IIRC, jumped the rates almost 30%. By adding 30 million uninsured and not allowing limits on claims or coverage the insurance companies are already planning another hike. There's nothing in this bill that stops rate increases only a rule saying how much profit percentage they're allowed to make. The profit percentage rate may drop, although there's no evidence of that yet, but the total dollar amount they're bringing in is going higher. All that means is they'll be bringing in more profit than ever.

734 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:49:13am

re: #726 NJDhockeyfan

I agree. How bout we enforce the existing laws against hiring illegal aliens and start throwing throwing them in jail? We will see plenty of illegals sent packing back to their home countries and maybe help the unemployment numbers with all the fresh new job openings available.

they are being manipulated as potential voters, and even as entitlement numbers...it's about power, not security or even what's right

735 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:49:15am

re: #731 Obdicut

How much would it cost to do that?

Do what, enforce the law? I believe the police get paid to do that already.

736 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:49:23am

re: #725 albusteve

"dire shortage of physicians"
no way!...unpossible!

Have you read the AAPS website? They have a goddamn Drudge Siren at the top of their page for christ sakes, and links to Tea Party pages. Doctors can be teabaggers too apparently.

737 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:50:36am

re: #730 albusteve

I'm from the border and have family down there, including in law enforcement. I've seen how ineffective a fence is with my own eyes.

Try again.

738 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:50:46am

re: #724 drcordell

Go compare Medicare to any private insurance company. Look at the overhead costs, then come back and make your argument. Simply saying that "government can never do anything right" isn't a real argument. Especially when there is real empirical evidence pointing to the contrary.

We were talking about the new student loan program that claims it's going to save the taxpayers billions. It's pure fantasy.

739 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:51:47am

re: #730 albusteve

that's a myth...total bullshit
anyway the dispute was about a fence, a means of keeping illegals out of the country...not about issues after the fact...if you've ever been to the desert near the border, I think you would change your mind..."totally ineffective" is hyperbole

Totally ineffective is the ONLY WAY to describe a border fence. Here's a little illustration of how effective it can be.
[Link: www.dailymotion.com...]

740 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:52:08am

re: #732 Lidane

You ARE talking about the CEO's of the companies that depend on illegal labor, right? Those are the people who would need to be jailed in order to have even the slightest hope of changing how things are done.

Just jailing the workers? Pfft. The companies will just find more. It's no loss to them. You have to go after the big guns of those companies if you expect to make any real impact.

so forget enforcing the law then....do you have any solutions to the problem or isn't it a problem?....how do you alter economic incentive?

741 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:52:36am

re: #732 Lidane

You ARE talking about the CEO's of the companies that depend on illegal labor, right? Those are the people who would need to be jailed in order to have even the slightest hope of changing how things are done.

Just jailing the workers? Pfft. The companies will just find more. It's no loss to them. You have to go after the big guns of those companies if you expect to make any real impact.

Have you seen the unemployment figures? I doubt the employers will have to put much effort into finding legal workers.

I recall a factory in Colorado, a few years ago, where ICE raided them and removed all the illegal aliens. The left went nuts and said the company needed the illegals to do those jobs 'Americans won't do'. Well a week later the line for applications stretched around the building.

742 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:53:04am

re: #732 Lidane

You ARE talking about the CEO's of the companies that depend on illegal labor, right? Those are the people who would need to be jailed in order to have even the slightest hope of changing how things are done.

Just jailing the workers? Pfft. The companies will just find more. It's no loss to them. You have to go after the big guns of those companies if you expect to make any real impact.

And that is why Dick Armey is against reform, and incurring the wrath of the right wing.

743 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:53:20am

re: #736 drcordell

Have you read the AAPS website? They have a goddamn Drudge Siren at the top of their page for christ sakes, and links to Tea Party pages. Doctors can be teabaggers too apparently.

where are providers going to come from?...unicornville?

744 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:53:35am

re: #727 Killgore Trout

Meanwhile, in the real world...
Student Loan Overhaul Approved by Congress

Rupert Murdoch wants you to be stupid.

Pure fantasy. There will be no savings from "eliminating the middle-man". Someone, somewhere, has to do the work of processing these loans. Taking it out of the private sector and giving it to a unionized government employee is not going to save money, it's going to cost money.

745 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:53:38am

re: #733 RogueOne

You were the one who first brought up insurance rates 'going through the roof' in our conversation, as though it was relevant in some manner to the bill. Now you are saying that the rates would rise regardless of the bill.

The profit percentage rate may drop, although there's no evidence of that yet, but the total dollar amount they're bringing in is going higher. All that means is they'll be bringing in more profit than ever.

Okay. So you're saying the broader base of people paying into the system, although it depresses their profit margins, will increase their overall profitability? That makes sense, though I think that you'd have to do a lot of math to figure out whether that was strictly true-- you'd have to figure out the cost of them being forced to deliver treatment to people previously denied.

Now, how does this cost the taxpayers more, again?

746 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:54:16am

re: #743 albusteve

where are providers going to come from?...unicornville?

Yes! On the corner of Hope & Change!

747 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:54:22am

re: #729 Obdicut

Sourcewatch info for the AAPS.

Contributions to the Constitution party.

[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

One of their presidents was a Discovery Institute fellow.

They made a blatantly false claim about illegal aliens and leprosy.

They lack credibility, to say the least.

No surprise there.

748 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:55:34am

re: #745 Obdicut

You were the one who first brought up insurance rates 'going through the roof' in our conversation, as though it was relevant in some manner to the bill. Now you are saying that the rates would rise regardless of the bill.

Okay. So you're saying the broader base of people paying into the system, although it depresses their profit margins, will increase their overall profitability? That makes sense, though I think that you'd have to do a lot of math to figure out whether that was strictly true-- you'd have to figure out the cost of them being forced to deliver treatment to people previously denied.

Now, how does this cost the taxpayers more, again?

Why are we still arguing over a point we agree on? I said rates were going to go up another 17% this year based on the passage of the bill and you said rates have gone through the roof regardless. This is something we sort of agree on.

749 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:55:46am

re: #738 RogueOne

We were talking about the new student loan program that claims it's going to save the taxpayers billions. It's pure fantasy.

The companies that administered the loans were for-profit, were they not? They were literally taking government money, loaning it out to students, and raking in a nice percentage for themselves. Why in the hell would we continue to allow that to happen, when the gov't can just administer the loans directly? Every cent of profit skimmed off that cash flow is a tax dollar that could have been loaned out.

Nobody is stopping private student loan companies from existing. If those companies want to continue their own operations with their own capital, more power to them. But I'm sure as hell not going to continue letting them make a profit for doing nothing other than serve as a middle man for government administered loans. There's a reason why nearly every Senator except Ben Nelson was for these reforms. Nelson's opposition stemmed purely from the fact that the loan companies are all in Nebraska.

750 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:56:03am

re: #740 albusteve

You're being deliberately dense.

It's not enough to simply jail and/or deport an illegal worker. They'll just come right back in as long as they have a reason to be here. What you ALSO have to do is go after the companies who depend on illegal labor, and their CEO's in particular if you expect to have any real impact on the practice of hiring illegal labor.

751 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:56:05am

re: #744 RogueOne

Why do you keep making assertions without backing it up at all? Eliminating the middle-man, or the rent-seeker, is a very good way of eliminating costs.

I'm not sure what your argument on this actually is, except that somehow, it'd cost more.

What would actually cost more? What would the expense be, and why would it be greater than before?

752 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:56:07am

re: #736 drcordell

Have you read the AAPS website? They have a goddamn Drudge Siren at the top of their page for christ sakes, and links to Tea Party pages. Doctors can be teabaggers too apparently.

More from Wiki:

The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons is not listed in the major literature databases of MEDLINE/PubMed nor the Web of Science. Articles and commentaries published in the journal have argued:

* that abortion causes preterm birth later in life, and thus birth defects such as cerebral palsy to future children born to women with a history of abortion,

* that the Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional,

* that "humanists" have conspired to replace the "creation religion of Jehovah" with evolution,

* that increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has not caused global warming,

* that HIV does not cause AIDS,

* that the "gay male lifestyle" shortens life expectancy by 20 years.

753 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:56:43am

re: #739 drcordell

Totally ineffective is the ONLY WAY to describe a border fence. Here's a little illustration of how effective it can be.
[Link: www.dailymotion.com...]

you must be joking...that's not the paradigm I was ever discussing....I'm talking about new barriers in the open desert, not an antique in downtown Nogales

754 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:56:51am

re: #726 NJDhockeyfan

I agree. How bout we enforce the existing laws against hiring illegal aliens and start throwing throwing them in jail? We will see plenty of illegals sent packing back to their home countries and maybe help the unemployment numbers with all the fresh new job openings available.

Won't happen. Business needs their cheap labor, and politicians need their votes.

755 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:57:19am

re: #747 Killgore Trout

No surprise there.

Follow up:

A 2003 paper published in the journal, claiming that vaccination was harmful, was criticized for poor methodology, lack of scientific rigor, and outright errors by the World Health Organization and the American Academy of Pediatrics. A National Public Radio piece mentioned inaccurate information published in the Journal and wrote: "The journal itself is not considered a leading publication, as it's put out by an advocacy group that opposes most government involvement in medical care."

Quackwatch lists JPandS as an untrustworthy, non-recommended periodical. An editorial in Chemical & Engineering News by editor-in-chief Rudy Baum described JPandS as a "purveyor of utter nonsense." Investigative journalist Brian Deer wrote that the journal is the "house magazine of a right-wing American fringe group [AAPS]" and "is barely credible as an independent forum."

756 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:57:22am

re: #748 RogueOne

Why are we still arguing over a point we agree on? I said rates were going to go up another 17% this year based on the passage of the bill and you said rates have gone through the roof regardless. This is something we sort of agree on.

No, we don't. You're trying to both claim that the rates going up have to do with the passage of the bill, and say that they have nothing to do with the passage of the bill.

757 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:57:55am

re: #749 drcordell

The companies that administered the loans were for-profit, were they not?

No, the majority (I'd like to say all but I'm not sure I could prove it) of those went through sallie mae and they're non-profit. I worked for a portion of their company called ELSC a couple decades ago.

758 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:58:00am

Watches as the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons biplane crashes to the ground.

//

759 Altermite  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:58:01am

re: #752 Gus 802

More from Wiki:

The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons is not listed in the major literature databases of MEDLINE/PubMed nor the Web of Science. Articles and commentaries published in the journal have argued:

* that abortion causes preterm birth later in life, and thus birth defects such as cerebral palsy to future children born to women with a history of abortion,

* that the Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional,

* that "humanists" have conspired to replace the "creation religion of Jehovah" with evolution,

* that increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has not caused global warming,

* that HIV does not cause AIDS,

* that the "gay male lifestyle" shortens life expectancy by 20 years.

But they have surgeon in their name! And America!

/Good work finding that. Someone just got discredited.

760 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:59:11am

re: #735 NJDhockeyfan

How much would it cost to jail all the current illegal aliens, assuming that we could jail them, since a lot of them have only committed misdemeanors.

It costs money to put people in jail. You're proposing doing so to millions.

How much would it cost?

761 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:59:17am

re: #751 Obdicut

Why do you keep making assertions without backing it up at all? Eliminating the middle-man, or the rent-seeker, is a very good way of eliminating costs.

I'm not sure what your argument on this actually is, except that somehow, it'd cost more.

What would actually cost more? What would the expense be, and why would it be greater than before?

Let me repeat: Somebody, somewhere, has to process and do the upkeep on those loans. That doesn't go away because the feds wave a magic wand and say it does. Government jobs cost more than private sector jobs. It's simple math.

762 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:59:32am

re: #755 Gus 802

heh

763 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:59:35am

re: #743 albusteve

where are providers going to come from?...unicornville?

The med schools in our nation that reject thousands of applicants every year? India? Europe?

We have plenty of doctors, they simply don't wish to become general care physicians. And do you know why that is? Because the average med student has $350,000 or more of student loan debt. And you pay that off the quickest by becoming an orthopedic surgeon, or a cardiologist, not a physician.

Wondering why other countries don't have that problem? Because they pay for their medical students to become doctors with government funds. AHHH SOCIALISM, IT BURNS!

764 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:59:40am

re: #744 RogueOne

Pure fantasy. There will be no savings from "eliminating the middle-man". Someone, somewhere, has to do the work of processing these loans. Taking it out of the private sector and giving it to a unionized government employee is not going to save money, it's going to cost money.

Hi Rogue! And here are two aspects of the "pay-back" issue that I found interesting:

1. Repayment will be capped at 10% of the borrower's discretionary income over the life of the loan, and
2. If regular payments are made, the balance will be forgiven at the 20 year mark.

As Obdicut noted above, it appears that balances are forgiven now at 25 years, so there's a five year repayment period cut from the existing contracts.

Why not loan the money, at the interest rate and term agreed to, and insist that the borrower comply with the contract terms?

765 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:00:18am

re: #750 Lidane

You're being deliberately dense.

It's not enough to simply jail and/or deport an illegal worker. They'll just come right back in as long as they have a reason to be here. What you ALSO have to do is go after the companies who depend on illegal labor, and their CEO's in particular if you expect to have any real impact on the practice of hiring illegal labor.

then if I get you, you are proposing to use the law...and you did not answer my question about economic incentive....so we jail/fine the CEOs as well as deport aliens to start...what's the rest of the plan?

766 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:00:52am

re: #760 Obdicut

How much would it cost to jail all the current illegal aliens, assuming that we could jail them, since a lot of them have only committed misdemeanors.

It costs money to put people in jail. You're proposing doing so to millions.

How much would it cost?

Jail the employers. See how fast the jobs that illegals currently do dry up.

767 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:00:55am

re: #759 Altermite

But they have surgeon in their name! And America!

/Good work finding that. Someone just got discredited.

Yeah, this group is seriously cracked. Here's the response from WHO regarding a paper they published against vaccinations:

Position of the Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety regarding concerns raised by paper about the safety of thiomersal-containing vaccines

A publication in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons 1, claims evidence of a link between mercury exposure from thiomersal-containing childhood vaccines and neurodevelopmental disorders and heart disease.

Based on a careful preliminary review, the Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety (GACVS) finds that the article does not provide a sufficient scientific basis for changing the WHO policy in respect of thiomersal-containing vaccines. However, WHO and GACVS will continue to keep the issue under careful and ongoing review.

CONTINUES

768 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:00:59am

Trololo cat

769 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:01:09am

re: #761 RogueOne

Let me repeat: Somebody, somewhere, has to process and do the upkeep on those loans. That doesn't go away because the feds wave a magic wand and say it does. Government jobs cost more than private sector jobs. It's simple math.

No, it's a simple assertion with zero proof behind it.

Yes, someone has to process those loans. Why on earth do you assume that the cost of government employees processing those loans is more expensive than private employees processing them + the profit that the private corporations take? What is your logic?

770 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:01:44am

re: #764 subsailor68

Why not loan the money, at the interest rate and term agreed to, and insist that the borrower comply with the contract terms?

Because they believe they can do the work cheaper and more efficiently thus saving money. I don't know where anyone could get the idea that government employees are more efficient/cheaper than their private sector counter-parts but they have a lot of faith, or hope I guess.

771 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:02:04am

re: #763 drcordell

The med schools in our nation that reject thousands of applicants every year? India? Europe?

We have plenty of doctors, they simply don't wish to become general care physicians. And do you know why that is? Because the average med student has $350,000 or more of student loan debt. And you pay that off the quickest by becoming an orthopedic surgeon, or a cardiologist, not a physician.

Wondering why other countries don't have that problem? Because they pay for their medical students to become doctors with government funds. AHHH SOCIALISM, IT BURNS!

So now the taxpayers have to foot the bill for medical school? Where will that money come from? We are already broke.

772 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:02:33am

re: #766 NJDhockeyfan

And how much would that cost? Remember to count the cost of the actual prosecution of well-funded CEOs with lots of defense lawyers.

I'd much rather see us jail the company owners, sure, but my question is can it actually happen, what is the cost, and what is the actual benefit?

773 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:02:57am

re: #763 drcordell

The med schools in our nation that reject thousands of applicants every year? India? Europe?

We have plenty of doctors, they simply don't wish to become general care physicians. And do you know why that is? Because the average med student has $350,000 or more of student loan debt. And you pay that off the quickest by becoming an orthopedic surgeon, or a cardiologist, not a physician.

Wondering why other countries don't have that problem? Because they pay for their medical students to become doctors with government funds. AHHH SOCIALISM, IT BURNS!

I know all that...so where are the doctors going to come from to deal with 35m more patients?...the notion of plenty of doctors goes up in smoke

774 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:03:26am

re: #753 albusteve

you must be joking...that's not the paradigm I was ever discussing...I'm talking about new barriers in the open desert, not an antique in downtown Nogales

You're so right. It will be much, much harder for illegal immigrants to scale a fence that is in the middle of a desert than it is to hop one along a heavily-patrolled urban border.

/

775 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:03:44am

Special forces rescued a diplomat who had been held by militants in Pakistan since November 2008. The twist? This was an Iranian diplomat, and these were Iranian special forces, so the TV said.

776 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:04:09am

re: #771 NJDhockeyfan

The federal government also already subsidizes physician training, too.

This is what people mean when they ask "why are you outraged about this now?"

777 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:04:12am

re: #769 Obdicut

No, it's a simple assertion with zero proof behind it.

Yes, someone has to process those loans. Why on earth do you assume that the cost of government employees processing those loans is more expensive than private employees processing them + the profit that the private corporations take? What is your logic?

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

Government jobs cost more. They're less efficient and near to impossible to fire. I can't believe I'm having to argue this point.

778 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:04:33am

re: #774 drcordell

You're so right. It will be much, much harder for illegal immigrants to scale a fence that is in the middle of a desert than it is to hop one along a heavily-patrolled urban border.

/

exactly...now you're getting it

779 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:05:39am

re: #772 Obdicut

And how much would that cost? Remember to count the cost of the actual prosecution of well-funded CEOs with lots of defense lawyers.

I'd much rather see us jail the company owners, sure, but my question is can it actually happen, what is the cost, and what is the actual benefit?

The benefit will be giving legal citizens jobs. Those new legal employees will spend more money and help bring the economy back around. Most of the illegal aliens currently send their money back to their home countries.

780 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:05:47am

re: #771 NJDhockeyfan

So now the taxpayers have to foot the bill for medical school? Where will that money come from? We are already broke.

Well, a few things to point out. One, I would imagine that over the course of their lives, doctors provide just a tiny benefit to their respective societies. Two, it's not as if getting gov't funded medical school absolves you from paying income taxes for the rest of your life. Three, cut the money from the defense budget and it will work out peachy.

781 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:06:41am

re: #776 Obdicut

The federal government also already subsidizes physician training, too.

This is what people mean when they ask "why are you outraged about this now?"

This is also true. Every residency program in the country is already federally funded.

782 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:06:57am

re: #775 The Sanity Inspector

Special forces rescued a diplomat who had been held by militants in Pakistan since November 2008. The twist? This was an Iranian diplomat, and these were Iranian special forces, so the TV said.

Got an MLje.exe trojan warning from my AV at that site.

783 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:07:41am

re: #778 albusteve

exactly...now you're getting it

No, I'm mocking your complete lack of understanding of the issue. The only person who thinks that a border fence is an actual solution is Lou Dobbs. Ponder that one for a minute.

784 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:08:18am

more govt intervention....problem solved
every problem, every time
grow the feds!

785 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:09:00am

re: #777 RogueOne

Average government salaries are more, yes. However, the equation I posited was government employee vs. private employee + profits. You didn't answer that question.

Additionally, comparing straight salaries does not compare the costs of the programs. The numbers of employees involved, the actual delivery of the service, the cost of mistakes all factor into it as well. You cannot compare efficiency of companies by strictly comparing payroll.

In addition, federal governments do not have the massive, massive disparity between low-ranked pay and high-ranked pay. Those low-level accountants may be making more than their private equivalents, but the heads of the program are not going to be making anywhere near, at all, in any way, what corporate officers make. Did you include that in your evaluation, what the vice presidents at the bank corporation make?

786 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:09:40am

re: #784 albusteve

more govt intervention...problem solved
every problem, every time
grow the feds!

Why not? They are so efficient!

//

787 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:10:05am

re: #784 albusteve

more govt intervention...problem solved
every problem, every time
grow the feds!

Which is exactly what your elaborate border fence would do. It would increase government bloat and inefficiency, waste billions that could be better spent on other things, and not solve the problem at all.

788 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:10:51am

re: #783 drcordell

No, I'm mocking your complete lack of understanding of the issue. The only person who thinks that a border fence is an actual solution is Lou Dobbs. Ponder that one for a minute.

It's not the only solution but it's part of the solution. Doing nothing certainly isn't helping.

789 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:11:01am

re: #782 Gus 802

Got an MLje.exe trojan warning from my AV at that site.

No issue with Firefox, and running McAfee.
Pop-up blocker was all.

790 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:11:17am

re: #784 albusteve

more govt intervention...problem solved
every problem, every time
grow the feds!

Coming from the man who thinks that the Federal Government can successfully build, patrol and maintain an impenetrable border fence covering a 2,000 mile long border with Mexico.

791 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:11:50am

re: #783 drcordell

No, I'm mocking your complete lack of understanding of the issue. The only person who thinks that a border fence is an actual solution is Lou Dobbs. Ponder that one for a minute.

walk up to this, after crossing miles of brutal desert and carrying twenty pounds of water or more...exhausted, you just climb over this fence and keep going?....don't be ridiculous
Image: border-fence.jpg

792 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:13:15am

re: #779 NJDhockeyfan

The benefit will be giving legal citizens jobs. Those new legal employees will spend more money and help bring the economy back around. Most of the illegal aliens currently send their money back to their home countries.

Illegal aliens spend money here as well. They do send some money back to their home countries, true. Companies with foreign investors send money back to those people, too.

Can you show that the money saved will be worth the costs of prosecution, etc.?

793 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:13:27am

re: #779 NJDhockeyfan

The benefit will be giving legal citizens jobs. Those new legal employees will spend more money and help bring the economy back around. Most of the illegal aliens currently send their money back to their home countries.

It appears that both legal and illegal immigrants do so. Here's a fact-check link to a bogus e-mail and factcheck.org's analysis:

factcheck.org

13. "In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin."

This is another bogus figure. The email’s link leads to the original Frosty Wooldridge article, which in turn cites as its source for this figure a link to a Contra-Costa Times article, which is no longer working. Nevertheless, we were able to find a news release from the Inter-American Development Bank stating Latin American immigrants sent $45 billion in remittances in 2006. But that figure applies to all immigrants, including legal residents.

So, it's both legal and illegal immigrants, but the figure of $45 billion appears to be correct according to factcheck.

794 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:13:44am

re: #787 Lidane

Which is exactly what your elaborate border fence would do. It would increase government bloat and inefficiency, waste billions that could be better spent on other things, and not solve the problem at all.

it helps enormously to keep people out....of course it doesn't 'solve the illegal alien problem'...I never said it did

795 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:13:58am

re: #788 NJDhockeyfan

It's not the only solution but it's part of the solution. Doing nothing certainly isn't helping.

You address problems by attacking their causes. Illegal immigrants come to this country because there are jobs for them. No jobs, no illegal immigrants. That is the solution. The stupid border fence is just a waste of everyone's time.

Hell, Israel can't even maintain a proper border fence around the Gaza strip. People and weapons cross that border illegally all the time. But we can do better. On a border that's probably 100x the length. Over half of which is in complete wilderness.

796 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:14:31am

re: #791 albusteve

walk up to this, after crossing miles of brutal desert and carrying twenty pounds of water or more...exhausted, you just climb over this fence and keep going?...don't be ridiculous
[Link: doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com...]

Yeah they probably won't have ladders....

797 drcordell  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:15:56am

re: #791 albusteve

walk up to this, after crossing miles of brutal desert and carrying twenty pounds of water or more...exhausted, you just climb over this fence and keep going?...don't be ridiculous
[Link: doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com...]

You keep bringing up complete hypothetical situations as if they are tied to reality in any way. How about bringing up an example of a real-life border fence that has actually worked? Gaza? East Germany? Great Wall of China?

798 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:17:52am

Good somethingorother, everyone!

799 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:18:48am

And for some good news....

Joe Weisenthal and Kamelia Angelova note that Tim Geithner's Citibank rescue has turned out to be a pretty good deal for the taxpayers. The government is selling off the stock this week, and netting a tidy profit of $8 billion.

Ezra Klein on the Citibank Sale

800 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:19:01am

re: #790 drcordell

Coming from the man who thinks that the Federal Government can successfully build, patrol and maintain an impenetrable border fence covering a 2,000 mile long border with Mexico.

it doesn't have to be 2000 miles long....it's a barrier used to funnel illegals into areas where they are easier to deal with...it can easily be done if the will was there....defeatists attitudes and swiping comments are exactly why this illegal problem exists in the first place...you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution....Mexico is at war with itself, and the problem is going to get much worse imo...cutting BP funds and not building barriers is hardly proactive....you want to dick around with the economics, fine...in the meantime people are walking into this country at will...if you don't see that as a long term security problem, that's your choice

801 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:19:50am

re: #797 drcordell

Hadrian's Wall worked kind of okay.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

For a little while, anyway.

802 jaunte  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:20:16am

Europe to penalise employers of illegal immigrants.

"Under a new draft directive, their employers would be penalised while the illegal immigrants would be granted legal conditions of employment."


With those terms, sounds like more immigrants will be coming to Europe, too.
[Link: www.europarl.europa.eu...]

803 Joo-LiZ  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:20:35am

re: #565 laZardo

Whatever happened with Cast Lead II anyway?

You mean the tank incursion last week? It wasn't really clear. I think they destroyed some buildings where the ambush fire was coming from in Khan Yunis then pulled out.

Today there are reports of Palestinians saying that a 15 year old boy was killed.

804 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:21:13am

re: #793 subsailor68

Immigrants Send Money Home in Record Numbers

Many immigrants send remittances to their family left behind in their native countries. For some individuals, it is necessary to send money to relatives remaining in their home countries, in order to either help supplement their income, or to provide their only source of income. Immigrants who have recently arrived in the United States tend to send money home often, despite earning relatively low wages. However, the longer an immigrant resides in the United States, the more money they tend to send to family back home. For example, recent immigrants tend to send $200 or $300 home on a monthly basis. Individuals who have been in the United States longer and are better off financially tend to send money less often but in larger amounts. It is estimated that worldwide remittances amount to more than $126 billion. Remittances have become a considerable force in the economy of many countries. Among the countries that receive the most in remittances are Mexico, the Philippines and India. Last year Mexico received more than $17 billion in remittances. The amount of remittances in Mexico exceeds the amount of foreign direct investment in the country. This is not surprising given that a significant portion of Hispanics in the United States are of Mexican descent. Other Latin American countries like El Salvador are popular destinations for remittances. In 2005 approximately $2.5 billion was sent to El Salvador. The amount represented more than 13% of El Salvador’s GDP, or gross domestic product. It is estimated that Latin Americans residing in the United States send $30 billion dollars to their native countries.

Maybe if we had Americans doing those jobs we could keep a large chunk of that money in this country.

805 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:21:15am

re: #792 Obdicut

Illegal aliens spend money here as well. They do send some money back to their home countries, true. Companies with foreign investors send money back to those people, too.

Can you show that the money saved will be worth the costs of prosecution, etc.?

is amnesty and an open border your solution to illegal immigration?....simply make immigration legal for anyone?

806 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:21:29am

re: #792 Obdicut

Illegal aliens spend money here as well. They do send some money back to their home countries, true. Companies with foreign investors send money back to those people, too.

Can you show that the money saved will be worth the costs of prosecution, etc.?

I think that the argument can be made that if a legal employee is earning that wage, then the base wage will be higher and no money sent abroad.
Versus a lower wage (due to illegal status) and shipping money out.

Just look at the statistics in the construction industry. Wages have hardly risen over time in regards to inflation and when compared to other industries, in part to the artificial suppression due to illegal status of the workers.

807 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:22:27am

re: #792 Obdicut

Illegal aliens spend money here as well. They do send some money back to their home countries, true. Companies with foreign investors send money back to those people, too.

Can you show that the money saved will be worth the costs of prosecution, etc.?

Should we just open the borders completely and let anyone in to save money?

808 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:22:48am

It appears we may have another problem to deal with re: immigration:

Border Agents, Lured by the Other Side - NY Times

There's just too much drug money. Sigh.

809 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:24:27am

re: #797 drcordell

You keep bringing up complete hypothetical situations as if they are tied to reality in any way. How about bringing up an example of a real-life border fence that has actually worked? Gaza? East Germany? Great Wall of China?

The Berlin wall was largely successful. If we just needed a wall dividing a southwestern city, and were willing to shoot those crossing the wire, it might work./ A long wall, much of it out metropolitan areas will never work. It would make it inconvenient to cross at best.

810 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:24:40am

re: #796 drcordell

Yeah they probably won't have ladders...

sure....how stupid can you be?...as soon as they get to the fence the BP knows they are there...are you suggesting teams of illegals carrying extension ladders across the desert to try and breech this fence?....they die of thirst because they can't even carry enough water....thanks for the good laugh

811 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:24:47am

re: #779 NJDhockeyfan

The benefit will be giving legal citizens jobs.

Which is precisely what these companies don't want, because that means having to comply with basic labor regulations as far as worker safety, wages, and working conditions. They depend on illegals so that they can artificially lower their costs and their prices to the consumer, as well as the wages and benefits they offer to employees.

Economic incentive doesn't just come from the CEO's looking at the bottom line, BTW. It also comes from the average consumer and what we are willing to pay for a product. We want things that are cheap, easy to come by, and plentiful. As long as that is the case, businesses will find a way to get their products on the shelf for the lowest cost possible to maximize their profits. That means illegal labor.

This isn't a simple issue. It's not something that can be solved in a series of PowerPoint slides or bullet points on the internet. It's very complex and would involve undoing decades of attitudes in this country about a lot of things, including our desire for instant gratification.

That's the problem. People think it's as easy as rounding up and deporting millions of illegal workers who are already here, or building a fence or wall or whatever. It's not. We'd have to confront a whole lot of truths in this country if we ever expect to change illegal immigration.

812 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:25:51am

re: #760 Obdicut

the number of busses required to deport them all stetches from alaska to the southern border.......

813 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:26:28am

re: #812 wozzablog

the number of busses required to deport them all stetches from alaska to the southern border...

JOBS!
bus makers

814 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:27:12am

re: #813 albusteve

JOBS!
bus makers

Ya gotta love his positive attitude!
:)

815 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:27:31am

re: #804 NJDhockeyfan

Immigrants Send Money Home in Record Numbers

Maybe if we had Americans doing those jobs we could keep a large chunk of that money in this country.

Maybe if we had Americans willing to do those jobs. I know the casinos housekeeping staff is 90% Hispanic for example. (I assume legals)

816 darthstar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:27:32am

re: #673 Cannadian Club Akbar

Man, political ads are already starting on my radio. Gonna be a long summer.

Sirius Satellite...worth the monthly fee...no ads.

817 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:27:57am

re: #795 drcordell

You address problems by attacking their causes. Illegal immigrants come to this country because there are jobs for them. No jobs, no illegal immigrants. That is the solution. The stupid border fence is just a waste of everyone's time.

Hell, Israel can't even maintain a proper border fence around the Gaza strip. People and weapons cross that border illegally all the time. But we can do better. On a border that's probably 100x the length. Over half of which is in complete wilderness.

There's the story of the Texan and the Mexican, talking together. The Texan asks why do Mexicans hate Americans so much? The Mexican replies, "It's because you stole half our country. And what's more, you stole the half with all the jobs!"

818 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:28:02am

re: #806 Ericus58

I think that the argument can be made that if a legal employee is earning that wage, then the base wage will be higher and no money sent abroad.
Versus a lower wage (due to illegal status) and shipping money out.

No, you can't, since legal immigrants send wages abroad as well.

Just look at the statistics in the construction industry. Wages have hardly risen over time in regards to inflation and when compared to other industries, in part to the artificial suppression due to illegal status of the workers.

I agree with this entirely; illegal immigration does depress wages, which is why industry loves it.

I, personally, am in favor of a non-random immigration process that actually rewards work. As in, someone commits to four years of work for this country, in the military or an important civil job, and after they're out they get a green card and a preferential look at citizenship.

819 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:29:37am

Remember that multi-billion dollar savings the health care bill was supposed to magically generate? Oops - you can kiss that goodbye, now that "corrections" to the bill that was passed are instituting it's real cost.

Say it with me: "Lying fuckers."

820 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:30:11am

You can talk about the impact of illegals working here, but imagine for a moment the economic impact if we deported them all for a moment. IMHO, it would be significant.

821 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:31:06am

re: #811 Lidane

Which is precisely what these companies don't want, because that means having to comply with basic labor regulations as far as worker safety, wages, and working conditions. They depend on illegals so that they can artificially lower their costs and their prices to the consumer, as well as the wages and benefits they offer to employees.

Well boo hoo hoo for the CEOs. I have no sympathy for law breakers. I'm sure they can find quite a few people in the unemployment like willing to take those jobs.

822 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:31:10am

re: #797 drcordell

You keep bringing up complete hypothetical situations as if they are tied to reality in any way. How about bringing up an example of a real-life border fence that has actually worked? Gaza? East Germany? Great Wall of China?

Israel's wall, for all the wailing of lachrymose Western proggs, did cut down on the exploding shopping centers and public transit, since it was built. Are you speaking of a different barrier?

823 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:31:26am

re: #807 NJDhockeyfan

Should we just open the borders completely and let anyone in to save money?

What a silly question. See my 818.

Can you explain, by the way, whether learning that the federal government already subsidizes medical student training has changed any of your opinions?

824 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:32:03am

re: #814 Varek Raith

Ya gotta love his positive attitude!
:)

I into solutions...I'm a natural go getter, an easily tire of all the negative babble that just goes on and on...we have a problem, we can solve it...not everybody will be happy but them's the breaks....funding for a is not even an issue, yet people always toss that in...bunch of whiners

825 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:33:00am

re: #824 albusteve

Funding is always an issue.

826 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:33:49am

re: #817 The Sanity Inspector

There's the story of the Texan and the Mexican, talking together. The Texan asks why do Mexicans hate Americans so much? The Mexican replies, "It's because you stole half our country. And what's more, you stole the half with all the jobs!"

true enough....we pretty much just ripped off Mexico...a dark period, but probably inevitable

827 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:33:54am

re: #819 SixDegrees

Remember that multi-billion dollar savings the health care bill was supposed to magically generate? Oops - you can kiss that goodbye, now that "corrections" to the bill that was passed are instituting it's real cost.

Say it with me: "Lying fuckers."


Do you realize that the article you linked to says no such thing?

828 jaunte  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:34:06am

Uneasy harvest: Immigration and wine

According to surveys by the U.S. Labor Department, about 7 percent of the nation’s farmworkers were illegal in 1989. By 2000, 52 percent were undocumented.

Some observers insist that’s an underestimate, especially in California.

Marc Grossman, spokesman for the United Farm Workers, estimated that 90 percent of the state’s farm workers are illegal.

829 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:35:07am

re: #653 drcordell

Yeah Dick Armey and FreedomWorks are real grassroots. I didn't fall off the back of a fucking turnip truck. I understand the difference between grassroots and astroturf. Yeah, there is real anger out there about what is going on. But much of it has been fomented by mis-information distributed by corporate-funded organizations such as FreedomWorks. Not to mention Fox News' roll in hyping and creating the "tea party" movement that exists today.

I'm of the mind that complaints of 'astroturfing' from the liberal side of the aisle should be treated like complaints of smelly farts. He who smelt it, dealt it.

830 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:35:17am

re: #819 SixDegrees

Remember that multi-billion dollar savings the health care bill was supposed to magically generate? Oops - you can kiss that goodbye, now that "corrections" to the bill that was passed are instituting it's real cost.

Say it with me: "Lying fuckers."

hahahaha!....what? no way!

831 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:35:24am

re: #827 Killgore Trout

Do you realize that the article you linked to says no such thing?

*cough*:

The bill increases the overall cost of the health care reform legislation to $940 billion over the next 10 years, $65 billion more than the original health care bill Obama signed into law last week.

832 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:35:51am

re: #815 avanti

Maybe if we had Americans willing to do those jobs. I know the casinos housekeeping staff is 90% Hispanic for example. (I assume legals)

Last year the local Hershey plant opened two lines and were hiring 120 people. They took applications for three days for those jobs which were simply factory jobs on an assembly line making candy bars. I showed up the first day, along with 3000 others who wanted a job. I met everything from fast food workers & maids to professionals in suits & former business owners, all vying for the same assembly jobs. Right now Americans are willing to do any jobs.

833 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:36:21am

re: #827 Killgore Trout

Do you realize that the article you linked to says no such thing?

Yea, I was confused by that too. Maybe the wrong link ?

834 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:36:38am

re: #825 Obdicut

Funding is always an issue.

bullshit...if the Stimulus money can be used to save union jobs, it can be used to build a fence, which would actually payoff in the long run...in my opinion

835 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:37:39am

I'm for whatever the hell we can find that works, be it a fence, enhanced penalties for those who hire, etc...

836 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:42:02am

re: #823 Obdicut

What a silly question. See my 818.

Can you explain, by the way, whether learning that the federal government already subsidizes medical student training has changed any of your opinions?

With the average debt for medical student graduates standing a $155,000 right now no....my opinion remains the same.

837 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:42:14am

re: #831 SixDegrees

Yes, the fixes added to the bill increased the cost, but it was not a "lie", or even a surprise since the CBO scored the bill. According to the CBO, the cost will be recovered is taxes and savings unlike the unfunded GOP prescription funding bill.

838 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:42:21am

re: #831 SixDegrees

Don't forget to toss in the $210 billion doctor "fix" in there.

839 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:43:04am

re: #833 avanti

Yea, I was confused by that too. Maybe the wrong link ?

No, they are just living in an alternate reality.

840 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:43:34am

re: #836 NJDhockeyfan

I'm sorry, how is that an answer to the question that I asked? It seems to be a completely irrelevant statistic.

Do you think we should decrease current federal subsidies that allow us to train medical professionals?

841 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:44:06am

re: #838 RogueOne

Don't forget to toss in the $210 billion doctor "fix" in there.

The doctor fix has been used every year recently, and not a part of the health care bills cost.

842 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:44:10am

re: #832 NJDhockeyfan

Last year the local Hershey plant opened two lines and were hiring 120 people. They took applications for three days for those jobs which were simply factory jobs on an assembly line making candy bars. I showed up the first day, along with 3000 others who wanted a job. I met everything from fast food workers & maids to professionals in suits & former business owners, all vying for the same assembly jobs. Right now Americans are willing to do any jobs.

Hi NJD. Your observation may be anecdotal, but I believe it's accurate. It seems to me that immigration issues are a political football when the U3 (official unemployment rate) is just under 10% (not sure exactly what it is today), and the U6 (overall rate with part-timers, people who've given up, etc.) is probably around 16 - 17%.

Far-reaching immigration proposals that are viewed as focused on illegals would most likely be more palatable once (or if) unemployment rates in America come down.

843 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:44:17am

re: #838 RogueOne

Don't forget to toss in the $210 billion doctor "fix" in there.

Is that the Medicare fix that was discussed and used by the Republicans to say it's going to cost more - but hasn't even been voted on or passed yet?

844 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:44:22am

re: #837 avanti

Yes, the fixes added to the bill increased the cost, but it was not a "lie", or even a surprise since the CBO scored the bill. According to the CBO, the cost will be recovered is taxes and savings unlike the unfunded GOP prescription funding bill.

Sorry, but but CBO estimate was based solely on the original bill - it did not include the "fixes" that are now ratcheting up the cost.

And given that the bill's author's were fully aware of this subterfuge, it was a lie.

You've been snookered.

845 garhighway  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:45:02am

re: #837 avanti

Yes, the fixes added to the bill increased the cost, but it was not a "lie", or even a surprise since the CBO scored the bill. According to the CBO, the cost will be recovered is taxes and savings unlike the unfunded GOP prescription funding bill.


Why do you bother?

This conversation isn't about facts, it's about beliefs.

Government takeover. Death panels. Bankrupting our grandchildren. These aren't issues of fact to be rationally discussed. They are tenets of belief.

846 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:45:36am

re: #840 Obdicut

I'm sorry, how is that an answer to the question that I asked? It seems to be a completely irrelevant statistic.

Do you think we should decrease current federal subsidies that allow us to train medical professionals?

No, but I don't think we should pay for medical school for everyone either. I got the feeling you were suggesting such an idea.

847 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:46:08am

re: #838 RogueOne

Don't forget to toss in the $210 billion doctor "fix" in there.

Also, the spike in insurance costs that are expected due to changing regulations requiring higher risk coverage to be extended, and the expected shortfall of medical personnel, doctors and assistants alike, that will persist for the next several years.

848 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:47:31am

re: #846 NJDhockeyfan

No, but I don't think we should pay for medical school for everyone either. I got the feeling you were suggesting such an idea.

Okay. Do you realize we do pay for medical school for people? Let alone fully funding the residency programs, the federal and state governments subsidize the medical schools directly.

Is that something you would like to see ended?

Is somehow the amount we subsidize medical professional education in this country exactly right at the current moment?

849 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:47:37am

re: #835 Varek Raith

I'm for whatever the hell we can find that works, be it a fence, enhanced penalties for those who hire, etc...

The only thing I'm against is a fence/wall, since they're a massive waste of money that's better spent elsewhere, IMO, and most companies hired to build it will just use illegal labor anyway.

A lot has to change, including consumer attitudes, if we ever hope to combat illegal immigration. As long as the same folks who are clamoring for armed guards and fences at the border are also looking for the cheapest products they can find at the store, the problem will continue.

851 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:49:19am

re: #845 garhighway

Why do you bother?

This conversation isn't about facts, it's about beliefs.

Government takeover. Death panels. Bankrupting our grandchildren. These aren't issues of fact to be rationally discussed. They are tenets of belief.

Yeah, facts suck. Like this fact:

The bill increases the overall cost of the health care reform legislation to $940 billion over the next 10 years, $65 billion more than the original health care bill

852 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:49:42am

re: #849 Lidane

The only thing I'm against is a fence/wall, since they're a massive waste of money that's better spent elsewhere, IMO, and most companies hired to build it will just use illegal labor anyway.

A lot has to change, including consumer attitudes, if we ever hope to combat illegal immigration. As long as the same folks who are clamoring for armed guards and fences at the border are also looking for the cheapest products they can find at the store, the problem will continue.

This just in. Our investigative team has learned that an overwhelming majority of border fence supporters shop exclusively at Wal-Mart.

//

853 garhighway  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:50:02am

re: #849 Lidane

The only thing I'm against is a fence/wall, since they're a massive waste of money that's better spent elsewhere, IMO, and most companies hired to build it will just use illegal labor anyway.

A lot has to change, including consumer attitudes, if we ever hope to combat illegal immigration. As long as the same folks who are clamoring for armed guards and fences at the border are also looking for the cheapest products they can find at the store, the problem will continue.

Has there ever been a realistic estimate of the cost of an effective wall? And of the cost of maintaining and staffing it?

I am not trying to be provocative or snarky, I really haven't heard such an estimate and am curious about the price tag.

854 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:50:42am

Hot Air readers on the militia plot to assassinate police officers.....
Question the timing.....


Yes, Mitch, a bit interesting on the timing. They’ve only been on this for a couple of years, I heard this morning.

JamesLee on March 30, 2010 at 9:05 AM

Pfft. Their description reeks of exaggeration for the purpose of cheap scaremongering.

Militias are the one of the left’s favorite bogeymen; they’re on the verge of outright extinction. I’m more likely to get struck by lightning than shot by one of those Yankee Doodle Ding-dongs, despite all the hype.

This is the legal equivalent of a stereotypical ‘fish story’. The tale-tellers are making it sound like they caught a Great White shark…but all they really got was a baby pike.

Dark-Star on March 30, 2010 at 9:50 AM

Is this the same Curmudgeon who posts here?


Seen this movie before. It gets re-released every time a democrat president needs a distraction.

Curmudgeon on March 30, 2010 at 10:06 AM


It's easy to see why Alex Jones has gained credibility in wingnut circles.

855 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:50:53am

re: #852 Gus 802

This just in. Our investigative team has learned that an overwhelming majority of border fence supporters shop exclusively at Wal-Mart.

//

But they shop with illegals!!
/

856 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:51:05am

re: #850 NJDhockeyfan

Gallup: 12-point swing against Obamacare in 6 days

Could be because the actual costs are now being openly discussed, and they aren't pretty.

Looks like someone's planning on significant changes to the structure of income tax, too:

Employers will have to report the value of an employee's health care plan on W-2 forms.

Just for informational purposes, of course...

857 Kragar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:51:08am

re: #850 NJDhockeyfan

Gallup: 12-point swing against Obamacare in 6 days

Change you can believe in.

858 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:52:59am

re: #832 NJDhockeyfan

Last year the local Hershey plant opened two lines and were hiring 120 people. They took applications for three days for those jobs which were simply factory jobs on an assembly line making candy bars. I showed up the first day, along with 3000 others who wanted a job. I met everything from fast food workers & maids to professionals in suits & former business owners, all vying for the same assembly jobs. Right now Americans are willing to do any jobs.

It's almost like everyone's moving down a notch in this recesion, or at least stepping sideways. I see so many applications from people who majored in some field that they can't find work in, or who have had their specialized careers end for some reason, and haven't been able to get back on track. And g-d help the unskilled laborers, having to compete with illegals who are paid birdseed by unscrupulous contractors.

859 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:53:49am

re: #843 Stanley Sea

Is that the Medicare fix that was discussed and used by the Republicans to say it's going to cost more - but hasn't even been voted on or passed yet?

Yes. Unless something has changed, the health reform legislation was scored by CBO as presented to it, and resulted in a calculation by CBO that it would "save" around $139 billion (or so).

However, that legislation did not include a separate proposal to pass around a $207 billion dollar Medicare physician reimbursement package - which would be included in separate legislation.

So, although the health reform appeared to be a deficit reduction measure, had the Medicare physician reimbursement number been included, you can see that it would add to the deficit, not decrease it. (You can probably find the exact dollar amounts on Google - I ballparked them from memory, but they're close.)

860 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:54:02am

re: #851 SixDegrees

You could easily look and find out what effect that extra spending will have. The student loan portions save taxpayers over 60 billion dollars in the first decade.
It's important to be informed and make real world criticisms if you want to be taken seriously.

861 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:55:32am

Doesn't it worry anyone else that the polls swing so wildly? This means that either:

Our media is corrupt, and polls improperly to make it seem that the American people believe what they wish them to believe in the hopes that the news becomes reality.

OR

Our population doesn't bother to research anything, and instead just reacts to the latest breathless report from their own chosen media outlet. They are dealing with very complex things in a very shallow way.

Either way, it's disturbing.

862 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:55:38am

re: #844 SixDegrees

Sorry, but but CBO estimate was based solely on the original bill - it did not include the "fixes" that are now ratcheting up the cost.

[...]

The mother of all teaser rates.

863 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:57:33am

re: #861 EmmmieG

I say both. Especially number 1.

864 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:57:56am

re: #853 garhighway

Has there ever been a realistic estimate of the cost of an effective wall? And of the cost of maintaining and staffing it?

I am not trying to be provocative or snarky, I really haven't heard such an estimate and am curious about the price tag.

I know the BP is deep into infrared systems....they can find and track illegal from miles away...the object of a fence is to funnel them into certain areas where they are easier to deal with and using their manpower and terrain to the best advantage...I don't see where a fence would need much maintenance and as for staffing, like I said...the BP will know in short order if illegals approach it...let alone take the time and effort to breach it, not that it would be impossible, just highly unlikely without being caught

865 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:58:32am

re: #844 SixDegrees

The fix that the Republicans want, and has been done every year? That fix?

866 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:59:55am

re: #841 avanti

The doctor fix has been used every year recently, and not a part of the health care bills cost.

Accounting trickery. That money is still going to be spent whether you want to count it or not. They took it out so the CBO numbers would look good, if it's not a big deal then why not leave it in? It's like the earlier story "We're going to make $8 bill from Citi stock!" woo-hoo, that only puts us down by $20 billion or so!

Another story about the states use of accounting chicanery:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]


California, New York and other states are showing many of the same signs of debt overload that recently took Greece to the brink — budgets that will not balance, accounting that masks debt, the use of derivatives to plug holes, and armies of retired public workers who are counting on benefits that are proving harder and harder to pay.
And states are responding in sometimes desperate ways, raising concerns that they, too, could face a debt crisis.

New Hampshire was recently ordered by its State Supreme Court to put back $110 million that it took from a medical malpractice insurance pool to balance its budget. Colorado tried, so far unsuccessfully, to grab a $500 million surplus from Pinnacol Assurance, a state workers’ compensation insurer that was privatized in 2002. It wanted the money for its university system and seems likely to get a lesser amount, perhaps $200 million.

Connecticut has tried to issue its own accounting rules. Hawaii has inaugurated a four-day school week. California accelerated its corporate income tax this year, making companies pay 70 percent of their 2010 taxes by June 15. And many states have balanced their budgets with federal health care dollars that Congress has not yet appropriated.

We're headed for a nasty fall and pretending that spending money we don't have is going to save us is making it worse.

867 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 9:59:56am

re: #858 The Sanity Inspector

It's almost like everyone's moving down a notch in this recesion, or at least stepping sideways. I see so many applications from people who majored in some field that they can't find work in, or who have had their specialized careers end for some reason, and haven't been able to get back on track. And g-d help the unskilled laborers, having to compete with illegals who are paid birdseed by unscrupulous contractors.

Walter's punching a cash register at the local market and is thrilled to have the job...I would too, in my condition

868 Lidane  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:00:15am

re: #853 garhighway

Has there ever been a realistic estimate of the cost of an effective wall? And of the cost of maintaining and staffing it?

I am not trying to be provocative or snarky, I really haven't heard such an estimate and am curious about the price tag.

This is from January 2009, but it gives an idea of the money we'd be talking about here:

[Link: www.heraldnet.com...]

The fencing erected along the U.S.-Mexico border in the past three years by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security has cost more than expected, a government report shows.

The 140 miles of pedestrian fencing put up under the Secure Border Initiative before Oct. 31 of last year cost an average of $3.9 million per mile, a Government Accountability Office report released this week found. Costs ranged from $400,000 to $15.1 million a mile.

That per-mile average is more than the $3 million estimated by the Congressional Budget Office in August 2006 and much more than the $2.2 million estimate the Senate used during the immigration reform debate that same year. Even the highest estimate at the time, $3.2 million per mile from U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., ended up being too low.

Pedestrian fences, sometimes called primary fences, are 10-foot-or-higher steel barriers designed to slow down people on foot.

Project 28, the Boeing Co.-led virtual-fence test project anchored by nine camera and radar towers along a 28-mile stretch of border flanking Sasabe, Ariz., was delayed eight months by glitches and plagued with problems, a previous GAO report found. The second generation of virtual fences was scheduled to go up in late 2008, but the work was abruptly halted in August.

In reviewing Customs and Border Protection estimates of total contracts for fencing segments -- the GAO did not independently verify or validate the information -- the report offers a preliminary analysis of the actual costs of the biggest and fastest buildup of border barriers in U.S. history.

"It gives you an idea of what the fence is going to cost," said Richard Stana, director of homeland security issues at the Government Accountability Office.

Final costs are still pending.

Now take all that money and multiply it by a 2,000 mile fence along the Mexican border. A fence/wall would be stupidly expensive, and none of this includes annual maintenance.

869 ckb  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:00:29am

Just a stunning example of that book from what I can see in the picture. It needs to be near perfect for it to be worth grading - it would have to grade out at NM 9.4. The last 9.4 went for about $300. The last NM-9.2 went for $60!

The CGC census notes 6 graded 9.2, 13 books graded 9.4, 13 graded 9.6, and one graded 9.8. Given those numbers the realized GPA selling prices look low to me. Thor isn't too hot right now but he will pick up as the movie draws near, especially if there is more Avengers talk in Iron Man 2.

870 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:00:58am

re: #865 Obdicut

The fix that the Republicans want, and has been done every year? That fix?

YES! That all of a sudden became news, the Saturday night before the vote. That one.

871 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:02:49am

re: #866 RogueOne

BTW, the CBO did score the fixes bill.

CBO.

872 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:03:02am

re: #861 EmmmieG

People hate the bill in generic polling.

But when given specific policies to support or not, without mention of the bill, people seem to like them. The inabillity to drop someone or refuse them, national competition, job portabillity.........


go figure.

873 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:03:05am

re: #845 garhighway

Why do you bother?

This conversation isn't about facts, it's about beliefs.

Government takeover. Death panels. Bankrupting our grandchildren. These aren't issues of fact to be rationally discussed. They are tenets of belief.

There's some AstroTurf for ya!
Play ball!

874 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:04:36am

re: #870 Stanley Sea

YES! That all of a sudden became news, the Saturday night before the vote. That one.

The GOP would have tried to tie the the defense appropriation cost to the health care bills cost if they though they could get away with it.

875 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:05:27am

re: #843 Stanley Sea

Is that the Medicare fix that was discussed and used by the Republicans to say it's going to cost more - but hasn't even been voted on or passed yet?

"Yet" being the key word in that statement:

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]


Q: Madam Speaker, on the Medicare question, the so-called doctor fix, can you speak to why that was not included in this legislation?

A:Speaker Pelosi. Well, we have been including it in legislation for a long time, because it's not about a doctor fix, it's about our seniors or anyone who relies upon Medicare to have access to physicians, that they be in their region and in their program.

So this is again, you call it the doctor fix, but it is really about access to health care for Americans. It's not in this bill, but we will have it soon. And we have made a commitment to do this. This is very important.

To paraphrase: "lets call spending $200+ billion something else so it makes our numbers look better"
[Link: www.investors.com...]


Rather than pass a permanent or even a one-year "doc fix" to prevent a mandatory 21% cut in Medicare fees to physicians, Democrats are relying on short-term patches. This is leading some to charge that the cut is being used for political purposes.

"The doctors have been held hostage to get them to play ball on the broader health care reform package," said Sage Eastman, spokesman for Michigan's Dave Camp, ranking Republican on the House Ways and Means Committee. "As health care reform has been delayed, so has the doc fix."

An automatic 21% payment cut was supposed to take place March1, but the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services ordered a two-week delay, anticipating Congress would suspend the cuts. Lawmakers later passed a one-month extension of the old payment rates.

876 garhighway  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:05:30am

re: #868 Lidane

Now take all that money and multiply it by a 2,000 mile fence along the Mexican border. A fence/wall would be stupidly expensive, and none of this includes annual maintenance.

So figure $10 billion to build it, and then how much more to staff it?

877 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:05:31am

re: #874 avanti

instead they put it on a credit card, tore up the bills and when they got divorced they left the wife with the debt.

878 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:05:45am

re: #866 RogueOne

unreal....talk about living in a fantasy world...as for the feds and their spending/saving projections, I simply dismiss all of it...show me the beef, but all we ever get is chopped liver....there is little historical evidence to compel me to trust the feds, in fact the opposite is true....just take the bloated failed Department of Education for a perfect example....the joke's on us

879 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:05:59am

re: #872 wozzablog

People hate the bill in generic polling.

But when given specific policies to support or not, without mention of the bill, people seem to like them. The inabillity to drop someone or refuse them, national competition, job portabillity...

go figure.

But they'll unplug grandma./

880 webevintage  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:06:06am

re: #844 SixDegrees

Sorry, but but CBO estimate was based solely on the original bill - it did not include the "fixes" that are now ratcheting up the cost.

Sorry, but it did include the fixes in the recon. bill:
[Link: cboblog.cbo.gov...]
[Link: cboblog.cbo.gov...]

881 Slap  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:06:20am

re: #699 NJDhockeyfan

Irwin Mainway -- what an exec!

882 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:06:26am

CIA Sees Iran Approaching Nuke Capability

A recent CIA report warns that Iran has maintained its pursuit of nuclear capabilities that could help the Middle Eastern state build a nuclear bomb, the Washington Times reported today (see GSN, March 29).

"Iran continues to develop a range of capabilities that could be applied to producing nuclear weapons, if a decision is made to do so," states the annual report to U.S. lawmakers from the CIA Weapons Intelligence, Nonproliferation and Arms Control Center.

The United States, Israel and several European countries have for years expressed concern about Iranian atomic activities that could support a possible weapons drive, but Tehran has insisted its nuclear program has strictly civilian aims.

Iran is "keeping open" the possibility of developing a nuclear arsenal, "though we do not know whether Tehran eventually will decide to produce nuclear weapons," states the document, which bases its argument partially on a 2007 U.S. intelligence assertion that Tehran several years earlier ended military elements of its nuclear program. U.S. intelligence agencies have been re-evaluating the 2007 conclusion and could soon update it in a forthcoming National Intelligence Estimate (see GSN, Oct. 16, 2009).

Iran's uranium enrichment program has continued to suffer from mechanical hindrances, the CIA report also notes. The enrichment process can produce civilian nuclear fuel as well as nuclear-weapon material.

Iran is preparing additional short- and medium-range missiles, and "producing more capable medium-range ballistic missiles remains one of its highest priorities," the report adds.

Tehran is "keeping the door open to the possibility of building a nuclear weapon," said one U.S. official taking part in nonproliferation efforts.

"That's in spite of strong international pressure not to do so, and some difficulties they themselves seem to be having with their nuclear program," according to the official. "There are powerful incentives for them to close the door completely, but they are either purposefully ignoring them or are tone deaf. You almost want to shout, 'Tune in Tehran" (Bill Gertz, Washington Times, March 30).

883 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:07:30am

re: #868 Lidane

it's not 2000 mile long...and put me in charge and I will build it, get it done for a reasonable market price

884 Slap  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:08:41am

re: #596 Mad Al-Jaffee

Man, that must have been great. Would have loved to see the two of them together in such a small venue.

I miss Ronno!

885 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:09:02am

re: #880 webevintage

Sorry, but it did include the fixes in the recon. bill:
[Link: cboblog.cbo.gov...]
[Link: cboblog.cbo.gov...]

No matter how times people link to it the wingnuts won't change their mind. They think the CBO is part of the evil Cloward Piven plan to destroy the country.

886 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:10:32am

re: #883 albusteve

it's not 2000 mile long...and put me in charge and I will build it, get it done for a reasonable market price

I'll support that, if you have a money back guarantee if it is breached.

887 garhighway  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:10:35am

re: #883 albusteve

it's not 2000 mile long...and put me in charge and I will build it, get it done for a reasonable market price

The US - Mexico border is 1951 miles long.

888 webevintage  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:11:05am

re: #885 Killgore Trout

No matter how times people link to it the wingnuts won't change their mind. They think the CBO is part of the evil Cloward Piven plan to destroy the country.

I know, but harshing their narrative is enjoyable.

889 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:11:08am

re: #885 Killgore Trout

Attacking the CBO is really poisoning the well, burning bridges, and all kinds of other bad metaphors.

One of the more worrying attributes of the modern GOP to me is how much they're willing to attack credible institutions in order to make themselves seem more credible.

890 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:11:16am

re: #878 albusteve

unreal...talk about living in a fantasy world...as for the feds and their spending/saving projections, I simply dismiss all of it...show me the beef, but all we ever get is chopped liver...there is little historical evidence to compel me to trust the feds, in fact the opposite is true...just take the bloated failed Department of Education for a perfect example...the joke's on us

Hi albusteve. Then you're really not gonna like this:

Social Security and Medicare Projections: 2009

The numbers cited come from the Social Security and Medicare trustee reports.

891 garhighway  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:11:35am

re: #885 Killgore Trout

No matter how times people link to it the wingnuts won't change their mind. They think the CBO is part of the evil Cloward Piven plan to destroy the country.

Jeremy's brother?

892 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:11:36am

re: #887 garhighway

The US - Mexico border is 1951 miles long.

Well, that isn't 2,000. Quite.

893 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:11:52am

re: #888 webevintage

I know, but harshing their narrative is enjoyable.

After trying for almost a year, I'm getting bored.

894 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:12:15am

re: #885 Killgore Trout

No matter how times people link to it the wingnuts won't change their mind. They think the CBO is part of the evil Cloward Piven plan to destroy the country.

In fairness, both sides hate a impartial CBO score if it does not support their agenda,

895 garhighway  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:12:42am

re: #892 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that isn't 2,000. Quite.

I know. I was guilty of an outrageous exaggeration, for which I humbly apologize.

896 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:13:25am

re: #887 garhighway

The US - Mexico border is 1951 miles long.

your simply being obtuse...the object is to get illegals to go around the fence for what should be obvious reasons...therefore you needn't fence the entire length of the border

897 Kragar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:13:37am

re: #893 Stanley Sea

After trying for almost a year, I'm getting bored.

Have you considered taking up a hobby?

898 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:14:27am

Play nice. See ya'll tonight. Work beckons.:)

899 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:15:07am

laters all. gotta finish rescuing my laptop from disintegration.

900 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:15:45am

re: #894 avanti

In fairness, both sides hate a impartial CBO score if it does not support their agenda,

Hi avanti, it's good to see you. I think you're right. And I'd add that I bet both sides game the system to get the numbers they want - whenever possible. Personally, I trust the CBO, but recognize they can only work with what they're given.

901 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:16:32am

re: #884 Slap

Man, that must have been great. Would have loved to see the two of them together in such a small venue.

I miss Ronno!

Yeah, it was a good one. And I remember me and my brother were there with a friend who was either 21 or had a good fake id. He would buy beers at the bar and hand them to us. I guess the club only carded people at the bar.

902 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:16:34am

re: #898 Cannadian Club Akbar

Play nice. See ya'll tonight. Work beckons.:)

Same here. Work, work, work,...we are some of the lucky ones.

903 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:17:28am

The Rich Can't Pay for ObamaCare

The president intends to squeeze an extra $1.2 trillion over 10 years from a tiny sliver of taxpayers who already pay more than half of all individual taxes. It won't work.

904 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:17:31am

re: #897 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Have you considered taking up a hobby?

Yep! But again, someone is always wrong on the internet!

905 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:17:38am

re: #889 Obdicut

Attacking the CBO is really poisoning the well, burning bridges, and all kinds of other bad metaphors.

One of the more worrying attributes of the modern GOP to me is how much they're willing to attack credible institutions in order to make themselves seem more credible.

I agree, random pot shots at every moving govt entity is a loser...but there are plenty of targets otherwise...I don't consider the CBO as evil or inept....they just use the numbers they are given...and they do work for congress after all, probably a very sweet job...I consider my mistrust of govt healthy...I'm no Revolter, but I can understand why people are pissed, regardless of how much hash they absorb from G Beck

906 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:18:04am

re: #885 Killgore Trout

No matter how times people link to it the wingnuts won't change their mind. They think the CBO is part of the evil Cloward Piven plan to destroy the country.

Could you point out in there where they included the money for the Doc fix because I'm not seeing it in either report.

FTA:

That calculation reflects an assumption that the provisions of the legislation are enacted and remain unchanged throughout the next two decades, which is often not the case for major legislation. For example, the sustainable growth rate mechanism governing Medicare’s payments to physicians has frequently been modified to avoid reductions in those payments, and legislation to do so again is currently under consideration by the Congress. The current legislation would maintain and put into effect a number of policies that might be difficult to sustain over a long period of time.

907 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:18:34am

re: #903 NJDhockeyfan

a tiny slither of tax payers who happen to hold 90% of the nations wealth.

908 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:19:03am

re: #890 subsailor68

Hi albusteve. Then you're really not gonna like this:

Social Security and Medicare Projections: 2009

The numbers cited come from the Social Security and Medicare trustee reports.

I'm becoming numb to those sorts of numbers...we are fucked, just say it

909 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:19:23am

laters gaters

910 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:20:27am

re: #887 garhighway

The US - Mexico border is 1951 miles long.

add the ups and downs in the terrain, and you're probably right....there's 49 miles in there I bet

911 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:21:01am

re: #906 RogueOne

Could you point out in there where they included the money for the Doc fix because I'm not seeing it in either report.

You can read the CBO score yourself. It's been linked to several times. I can't spend all my time chasing down a personally debunking every dishonest wingnut talking point.

912 subsailor68  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:21:22am

re: #908 albusteve

I'm becoming numb to those sorts of numbers...we are fucked, just say it

Yes, it does appear that we are fucked. There may be ways to fix this, but given the short-term (step one as Thomas Sowell puts it) thinking by our politicians I don't know how.

913 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:21:31am

"Government takeover. Death panels. Bankrupting our grandchildren. These aren't issues of fact to be rationally discussed. They are tenets of belief."

"But they'll unplug grandma./"

Now, I'm sure that these comments are not being directed at your fellow posters in specifically..... Because no one posting this morning while making their objections are spouting this rubbish.

914 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:22:04am

re: #907 wozzablog

a tiny slither of tax payers who happen to hold 90% of the nations wealth.

Written by Alan Reynolds.

Alan Reynolds is a Senior Fellow at the Cato Institute and was formerly Director of Economic Research at the Hudson Institute.

CATO rhetoric at work.

915 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:24:55am

re: #912 subsailor68

Yes, it does appear that we are fucked. There may be ways to fix this, but given the short-term (step one as Thomas Sowell puts it) thinking by our politicians I don't know how.

the business of govt is to grow, just like Microsoft...it is simply unstoppable, except by legislation from the very people who are growing it...it's just scary how fast it's bloating up...to me anyway...fiscal conservatism is dead

916 kingkenrod  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:26:36am

re: #911 Killgore Trout

You can read the CBO score yourself. It's been linked to several times. I can't spend all my time chasing down a personally debunking every dishonest wingnut talking point.

CBO: doc fix + reconciliation package = $59 billion dollar deficit. The doc fix costs $208 billion over 10 years, so the $183 billion in deficit reduction becomes a $59 billion deficit.

[Link: cbo.gov...]

917 The Sanity Inspector  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:28:28am

re: #915 albusteve

the business of govt is to grow, just like Microsoft...it is simply unstoppable, except by legislation from the very people who are growing it...it's just scary how fast it's bloating up...to me anyway...fiscal conservatism is dead

Trillion is the new billion.

918 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:29:42am

re: #916 kingkenrod

The doc fix has been passed every year and has broad republican support. It is not new.

So why are you counting it at the same time?

919 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:30:13am

re: #914 Gus 802

Are the numbers wrong?

920 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:30:41am

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Obama administration is expected to announce by Wednesday its updated plan for oil and natural gas drilling in U.S. waters, including whether to allow exploration for the first time along the U.S. East Coast.

I'll believe it when I see it....lots of jobs will be generated

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

921 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:31:03am

re: #911 Killgore Trout

You can read the CBO score yourself. It's been linked to several times. I can't spend all my time chasing down a personally debunking every dishonest wingnut talking point.

I just quoted you the relevant portion, it was not included in their HCR report. It was intentionally taken out of the bill before the CBO scored it. You can try to twist it anyway you want but the reality remains the same.

Here is a link to a few "non-partisan" sites to catch you up on reality:
[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congressional budget scorekeepers say a Medicare fix that Democrats included in earlier versions of their health care bill would push it into the red.

The Congressional Budget Office said Friday that rolling back a programmed cut in Medicare fees to doctors would cost $208 billion over 10 years. If added back to the health care overhaul bill, it would wipe out all the deficit reduction, leaving the legislation $59 billion in the red.

[Link: www.washingtonexaminer.com...]

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]


The CBO, Congress' nonpartisan budget scorekeeper, said Friday that enacting the legislation "would result in a net increase to the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period." The increase is mostly because of Democrats' failure to pay for the "doc fix," but CBO didn't even bother to entertain the notion that its cost should be excluded.

The response from House Democrats? A wave of triumphant press releases claiming - misleadingly - that CBO's estimates backed up their claims that their bill was deficit neutral.

For the last time, the doc fix was never scored by the CBO in regards to the HCR bill. The administration claims it's in their 10 yr budget so it doesn't need to be but the CBO and anyone with any sense knows they're being sold a line of crap.

922 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:31:09am

re: #917 The Sanity Inspector

Trillion is the new billion.

pretty soon yer talkin real money

923 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:31:31am

re: #916 kingkenrod

CBO: doc fix + reconciliation package = $59 billion dollar deficit. The doc fix costs $208 billion over 10 years, so the $183 billion in deficit reduction becomes a $59 billion deficit.

[Link: cbo.gov...]

But the doc fix has nothing to do with the bill, it's pretty much a annual tweak. If you are scoring the health care bill, you would not add the cost of that in unless you just wanted to distort the actual cost of the bill itself.

924 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:32:01am

re: #921 RogueOne

The doc fix has been applied every year. It has Republican support.

Can you explain why something that has happened every year should be added to the cost of the health care bill?

925 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:32:17am

re: #922 albusteve

pretty soon yer talkin real money

Don't be silly. It's all magic government money, which grows on trees.

926 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:32:27am

re: #919 Rightwingconspirator

Are the numbers wrong?

It's a by subscription only article. But given that it was written by a Cato goon I'd say it's no doubt biased.

927 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:34:05am

re: #920 albusteve

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Obama administration is expected to announce by Wednesday its updated plan for oil and natural gas drilling in U.S. waters, including whether to allow exploration for the first time along the U.S. East Coast.

I'll believe it when I see it...lots of jobs will be generated

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Hopefully, he'll allow some drilling. Doing so would create some jobs and would save us money.

928 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:34:46am

re: #924 Obdicut

The doc fix has been applied every year. It has Republican support.

Can you explain why something that has happened every year should be added to the cost of the health care bill?

I don't care who passed it before or how they tried to twist the numbers around. It doesn't matter to me if Obama is a republican or dem pulling this crap. The only thing that matters is this is a load of BS accounting and I'm tired of having politico's blowing smoke up my ass.

929 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:35:04am

I think it's safe to say that the HCR bill is so vast, cumbersome, and complex, that nobody can say for certain what it will cost or save...for that reason alone I suspect tax payers are going to get reamed again

930 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:35:13am

Crazy wedding photo from members of the Hutaree militia.

They put the sub in subculture

931 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:35:16am

Holy Moly! Went and got new truck tires, 2 1/2 hours ago and we're still on the Thor thread. If it's as nice where Charles is as it is here in eastern WA this morning, he's outside. I have my chores done so I can play here for a while.

932 kingkenrod  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:35:20am

re: #918 Obdicut

The doc fix has been passed every year and has broad republican support. It is not new.

So why are you counting it at the same time?

I'm counting it because it is a real cost that the federal govt is committed to pay.

The legislation was about controlling the cost of health care, right?

I don't have a problem with the doc fix. But fence-sitting democrats used the deficit reduction/deficit neutral aspect of the legislation as a political excuse to support it. They knew no deficit reduction would actually occur.

933 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:35:42am

"Ensure Israel arms curbs, say MPs"

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

"The UK government must ensure that military equipment sold to Israel is not used in the occupied territories, MPs have said.

Ministers must learn "broader lessons" about ensuring the ban on the trade in such products for use in Gaza and the West Bank is enforced, a report adds."

When questioned on their stand in regards to rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza, and clashes with Hezbollah - the Ministers had no comment....

Good Luck in the Falklands, boys.

934 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:36:34am

re: #930 Stanley Sea

Crazy wedding photo from members of the Hutaree militia.

They put the sub in subculture

Classy.

935 kingkenrod  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:37:21am

re: #923 avanti

But the doc fix has nothing to do with the bill, it's pretty much a annual tweak. If you are scoring the health care bill, you would not add the cost of that in unless you just wanted to distort the actual cost of the bill itself.

We just had a huge HCR bill pass, but it didn't address a major cost component?

The doc fix was ignored because the Dems wanted to sell a deficit neutral package.

936 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:37:37am

re: #927 Dark_Falcon

Hopefully, he'll allow some drilling. Doing so would create some jobs and would save us money.

yet I wonder if that's the intention...there will fees and applications and taxes and other assorted revenues to be collected by the feds....personally I think that not becoming independent is maybe the greatest blunder of the century

937 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:38:32am

re: #930 Stanley Sea

Crazy wedding photo from members of the Hutaree militia.

They put the sub in subculture

Wow. They don't even practice basic gun safety. Check this photo out.

These are the folks the wingnuts are defending.

938 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:38:44am

re: #933 Ericus58
How much or how many arms do the Israelis really get from the UK? IIRC, they get most of their imported arms from us. This seems like posturing by UK pols.

939 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:39:26am

re: #934 RogueOne

Classy.

Follow the link in the article for more photos - there's a little boy of like 4? holding one of the guns. Yuck.

940 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:40:15am

re: #938 pingjockey

How much or how many arms do the Israelis really get from the UK? IIRC, they get most of their imported arms from us. This seems like posturing by UK pols.

according to the report, about 1%.

941 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:40:48am

re: #937 Gus 802

Wow. They don't even practice basic gun safety. Check this photo out.

These are the folks the wingnuts are defending.

the woman looks more offensive than the rifle

942 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:40:57am

re: #928 RogueOne

That's great. It also has nothing to do with my question. Why would you add those numbers together? The doc fix has been passed every year. Why is it suddenly something that needs to be counted against HCR?

943 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:41:17am

re: #930 Stanley Sea

Crazy wedding photo from members of the Hutaree militia.

They put the sub in subculture

I'm actually more concerned about the toddler with real gun.

We own guns, my father owned guns, my father-in-law owned guns.

Nobody would even consider letting a child that young come along on a target shooting trip, let alone carrying the gun himself, especially one like that.

7 year olds. BB guns. With supervision.

944 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:41:19am

re: #939 Stanley Sea

Follow the link in the article for more photos - there's a little boy of like 4? holding one of the guns. Yuck.

I don't really have a problem with the guns, I was brought up around a lot of weapons and I don't see a magazine loaded in the pic Gus just posted. All in all I'm not surprised they all lived in trailers.

945 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:41:46am

re: #942 Obdicut

That's great. It also has nothing to do with my question. Why would you add those numbers together? The doc fix has been passed every year. Why is it suddenly something that needs to be counted against HCR?

that's been explained at least twice

946 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:41:56am

re: #935 kingkenrod

What does the doc fix, which has been passed every year, have to do with the HCR package?

Seriously, this is getting weird. Should every piece of health-care related legislation now be counted against the HCR bill?

947 Kragar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:42:42am

Hutaree: Not on the fringe of militias

Mark Potok, the executive director of the Southern Poverty law Center, which tracks extremist groups, told TPMmuckraker that the Hutaree fit comfortably within the broader militia movement.

"The Hutaree were apparently ensconced right smack in the middle of the militia movement," said Potok.

Potok explained that the more secular militia groups foresee an impending catastrophe in the form of the federal government confiscating weapons, imposing martial law, and herding those who resist into concentration camps. Ultimately, he said, they fear that the U.S. will be subsumed into a socialistic "One World Order," under supra-national bodies like the U.N. or the EU.

"The only difference with the Hutarees is that they put this millenial spin on it," Potok said. In their version, the coming catastrophe involves the appearance of the Anti-Christ, but groups like the U.N. and E.U. are also vilified -- as we've noted. "It's very much the same idea."

Operationally, the Hutaree appears to have at least some ties to the broader movement. Potok said that the group's Facebook page, now removed, listed a large number of well-known militia groups as friends. And he noted that the federal indictment released yesterday referred to a recent aborted effort by Hutaree members to attend a militia summit in Kentucky.

948 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:44:08am

re: #908 albusteve

I'm becoming numb to those sorts of numbers...we are fucked, just say it

Are you proposing a wealth tax?

949 avanti  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:44:18am

re: #946 Obdicut

What does the doc fix, which has been passed every year, have to do with the HCR package?

Seriously, this is getting weird. Should every piece of health-care related legislation now be counted against the HCR bill?

The GOP wanted it included to inflate the perceived cost of heath care reform, the Dems want to address it separately, end of story.

950 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:44:20am

Toyota safety probe taps rocket scientists

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

"WASHINGTON/TOKYO (Reuters) – U.S. auto safety regulators said on Tuesday they will tap the expertise of the country's top space and aeronautics experts to analyze Toyota Motor Corp's electronic throttles to see if they are behind the reports of unintended acceleration that have hounded the automaker."

951 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:44:20am

re: #940 Ericus58
I didn't think it was very much. Considering the anti-Israeli sentiments of the UK gov't, I couldn't see them selling the IDF much.

952 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:46:11am

Is this what we should expect?
Prudential to take $100M health care charge in 1Q

(AP) – 18 hours ago

NEW YORK — Insurer Prudential Financial Inc. said Monday that it will take a $100 million charge in the first quarter in relation to the recent health care overhaul legislation.

The life insurance and annuities provider said in a regulatory filing that it will take the charge against earnings in the first quarter.

Prudential joins a growing list of companies that have said they will take accounting charges because of the health care bills. AT&T said last week it would take a $1 billion charge in the first quarter. AK Steel Corp., 3M Co., Caterpillar Inc., Deere & Co. and Valero Energy have also said they would take smaller charges.

Prudential said in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission that the health bill signed into law by President Barack Obama last week and a companion measure he is expected to sign Tuesday will reduce its tax deduction for retiree health care costs beginning in 2013.

Companies that provide prescription drug benefits for retirees have been getting subsidies covering 28 percent of eligible costs but could deduct everything they spent on the benefits — including the federal money — from their taxable income.

However, beginning in 2013, the health care overhaul will allow them to only deduct the amount of their own money that they spent. Prudential said it had taken a charge to reflect the increase in taxes it expects because of the changes.

The insurer earned $3.41 billion on revenue of $27.7 billion last year, when it was helped by a gain on the sale of its stake in a brokerage joint venture.

Shares of Prudential rose 70 cents to close at $59.91.

953 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:46:20am

re: #948 Taqyia2Me

Are you proposing a wealth tax?

wealth, health, stealth...
taxation is inevitable
like Detroit will never win the Super Bowl

954 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:46:22am

re: #944 RogueOne

I don't really have a problem with the guns, I was brought up around a lot of weapons and I don't see a magazine loaded in the pic Gus just posted. All in all I'm not surprised they all lived in trailers.

Still, having him point an AR-15 at the camera is seriously problematic. He's also clearly to small to handle it and thus should not be handling it.

955 kingkenrod  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:46:32am

re: #946 Obdicut

What does the doc fix, which has been passed every year, have to do with the HCR package?

Seriously, this is getting weird. Should every piece of health-care related legislation now be counted against the HCR bill?

Yes.

956 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:47:45am

re: #944 RogueOne

Pointing it at the camera, presumably held by someone is really bad. Equates to a toy at that point.

957 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:47:49am

Department of Justice Press Release - For Immediate Release
March 29, 2010 United States Attorney's Office
Eastern District of Michigan

Nine Members of a Militia Group Charged with Seditious Conspiracy and Related Offenses

Six Michigan residents, along with two residents of Ohio and a resident of Indiana, were indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence, United States Attorney Barbara L. McQuade and FBI Special Agent in Charge Andrew Arena announced today.

The five-count indictment, which was unsealed today, charges that between August 2008 and the present, the defendants, David Brian Stone, 45, his wife, Tina Stone, 44, his son, Joshua Matthew Stone, 21, of Clayton, Michigan, and his other son, David Brian Stone, Jr., 19, of Adrian, Michigan, Joshua Clough, 28, of Blissfield, Michigan, Michael Meeks, 40 of Manchester, Michigan, Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Indiana, Kristopher Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio, and Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio, acting as a Lenawee County Michigan militia group called the Hutaree, conspired to oppose by force the authority of the U.S. government. According to the indictment, Hutaree members view local, state, and federal law enforcement as the “brotherhood,” their enemy, and have been preparing to engage them in armed conflict.

The indictment further alleges that the Hutaree planned to kill an unidentified member of local law enforcement and then attack the law enforcement officers who gather in Michigan for the funeral. According to the plan, the Hutaree would attack law enforcement vehicles during the funeral procession with improvised explosive devices with explosively formed projectiles, which, according to the indictment, constitute weapons of mass destruction. Subsequently, and in furtherance of this plan, David Brian Stone, the Hutaree’s leader, obtained information about such devices over the Internet and e-mailed diagrams of such devices to a person he believed capable of manufacturing the devices. He then had his son, Joshua Matthew Stone, and others gather materials necessary for the manufacturing of such devices.

...

The charge of seditious conspiracy carries a statutory maximum penalty of 20 years in prison, attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction carries a statutory maximum penalty of life in prison, Teaching the use of explosives materials carriers a statutory maximum penalty of 20 years in prison, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence carries a mandatory minimum penalty of at least five years in prison.

...

958 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:47:56am

re: #954 Dark_Falcon
Don't tell the Palis that!

959 Slap  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:48:00am

re: #953 albusteve

wealth, health, stealth...
taxation is inevitable
like Detroit will never win the Super Bowl

One can hope. Not a Lions fan -- definitely a football fan. So sad they're the ONLY original NFL franchise that has never appeared in a superbowl....

960 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:48:21am

re: #952 Rightwingconspirator

Is this what we should expect?
Prudential to take $100M health care charge in 1Q

Yes, this is what we should expect. Companies have to publicly declare additional costs like this. Accounting rules set up after Enron are very clear about that. Obama is now getting hit by the law of unintended consequences.

961 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:48:24am

re: #955 kingkenrod

Yes.

Why? What goddamn sense does that make?

962 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:48:46am

re: #956 Rightwingconspirator

Pointing it at the camera, presumably held by someone is really bad. Equates to a toy at that point.

he's gonna miss by a mile....doesn't count

963 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:49:56am

re: #962 albusteve

Unless there is a candidates glass front office a mile away. Heh. //

No more gun accidents please!

964 I Am Kreniigh!  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:50:01am

"You're Thor? I can barely walk!"

965 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:50:36am

re: #948 Taqyia2Me

Are you proposing a wealth tax?

Sorry, Steve...was trying to quote a wozzablog (sp?) entry...

966 Kragar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:51:49am

Best Thor ever was the one with the death of the Executioner. Epic Badassery. Vikings + automatic weapons vs undead horde = EPIC WIN.

967 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:52:01am

re: #962 albusteve

he's gonna miss by a mile...doesn't count

I think about that kid who was killed by the kick back of the machine gun he was pointing (in Mass?) RWC knows about correct gun handling. He's the one I'll trust on advice in this situ.

968 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:52:10am

re: #959 Slap

One can hope. Not a Lions fan -- definitely a football fan. So sad they're the ONLY original NFL franchise that has never appeared in a superbowl...

I grew up in MI but was always a Dallas fan from the beginning...I can empathize with the fans up there...not only do they not win, but they are not even a fun team to watch...there is rarely a star, never a QB, never any hope...and they have one of the coolest stadiums in the league, right downtown...to go with a long, sometimes colorful history....bummer

969 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:52:31am

re: #965 Taqyia2Me

Sorry, Steve...was trying to quote a wozzablog (sp?) entry...

no problem

970 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:52:31am

re: #943 EmmmieG

I'm actually more concerned about the toddler with real gun.

We own guns, my father owned guns, my father-in-law owned guns.

Nobody would even consider letting a child that young come along on a target shooting trip, let alone carrying the gun himself, especially one like that.

7 year olds. BB guns. With supervision.

Zackly.

A twelve-year-old recently managed to shoot himself in the head - dead - with an Uzi at a legal, supervised event at a gun club in Massachusetts. With his father standing behind him and an instructor at his side.

Done for the whole family.

971 garhighway  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:53:48am

re: #918 Obdicut

The doc fix has been passed every year and has broad republican support. It is not new.

So why are you counting it at the same time?

It has "doc" in the name. It is therefore part of Health Care Reform and belongs in the numbers. Even though it would have happened with or without HCR. It just belongs in there! Can't you see that?

972 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:54:55am

re: #954 Dark_Falcon

Still, having him point an AR-15 at the camera is seriously problematic. He's also clearly to small to handle it and thus should not be handling it.

One of the top rules of gun safety is "never point a weapon - loaded or unloaded - at something you are not willing to destroy."

Guess maybe they didn't trust the photographer.

973 kingkenrod  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:55:12am

re: #961 Obdicut

Why? What goddamn sense does that make?

Because you don't get to pretend costs don't exist. A reform bill should address any real costs. If you ignore something important, it suggests you aren't doing your job.

The Dems considered including a permanent doc fix in early versions of the legislation but dropped it because it cost too much. Now why would they do that?!?!?!

974 Slap  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:55:40am

re: #968 albusteve

Yeah, I agree. (Not on the 'boys, but that's OK -- your deep abiding love for and loyalty to the Feat provides forgiveness.)

They USED to be fun. But the AFL was still in existence the last time that happened.

Paper Lion is still the greatest football movie ever....

975 garhighway  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:55:57am

re: #952 Rightwingconspirator

Is this what we should expect?
Prudential to take $100M health care charge in 1Q

(AP) – 18 hours ago

NEW YORK — Insurer Prudential Financial Inc. said Monday that it will take a $100 million charge in the first quarter in relation to the recent health care overhaul legislation.

The life insurance and annuities provider said in a regulatory filing that it will take the charge against earnings in the first quarter.

Prudential joins a growing list of companies that have said they will take accounting charges because of the health care bills. AT&T said last week it would take a $1 billion charge in the first quarter. AK Steel Corp., 3M Co., Caterpillar Inc., Deere & Co. and Valero Energy have also said they would take smaller charges.

Prudential said in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission that the health bill signed into law by President Barack Obama last week and a companion measure he is expected to sign Tuesday will reduce its tax deduction for retiree health care costs beginning in 2013.

Companies that provide prescription drug benefits for retirees have been getting subsidies covering 28 percent of eligible costs but could deduct everything they spent on the benefits — including the federal money — from their taxable income.

However, beginning in 2013, the health care overhaul will allow them to only deduct the amount of their own money that they spent. Prudential said it had taken a charge to reflect the increase in taxes it expects because of the changes.

The insurer earned $3.41 billion on revenue of $27.7 billion last year, when it was helped by a gain on the sale of its stake in a brokerage joint venture.

Shares of Prudential rose 70 cents to close at $59.91.

Boy, the news sure crushed their stock. Maybe investors know what a "non-cash charge" means.

976 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:56:20am

re: #963 Rightwingconspirator

Unless there is a candidates glass front office a mile away. Heh. //

No more gun accidents please!

ah ha!....your right of course...gun safety to me was no different from riding a bike....you learned it at the beginning and never violated the rules...I only ever saw one accidental discharge and my buddy was so ashamed I thought he'd die

977 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:56:21am

re: #970 Cato the Elder

Zackly.

A twelve-year-old recently managed to shoot himself in the head - dead - with an Uzi at a legal, supervised event at a gun club in Massachusetts. With his father standing behind him and an instructor at his side.

Done for the whole family.



8-year-old

Which led to:

Club pleads no contest in boy’s death
Gun range gets probation and ban on automatic weapons

978 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:57:23am

re: #966 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Best Thor ever was the one with the death of the Executioner. Epic Badassery. Vikings + automatic weapons vs undead horde = EPIC WIN.

Remember the book "What If"? They did one on What if Hulk Went Berserk. He kills a bunch of Marvel superheroes, and at the end Thor shows up and kills him by breaking his neck.

979 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:57:28am

re: #951 pingjockey

I didn't think it was very much. Considering the anti-Israeli sentiments of the UK gov't, I couldn't see them selling the IDF much.

the real issue would be those parts that are included in major weapon systems that a British company supplied as a vendor to say like Lockheed for their F-16's. If they pulled the plug on supporting these systems with spares or tech help - it gets to be a bit dicier.

980 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:57:41am

Seattle times this morning had an article on IIRC a Superman comic that sold for 1.5 million. Nice.

981 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:58:25am

re: #942 Obdicut

That's great. It also has nothing to do with my question. Why would you add those numbers together? The doc fix has been passed every year. Why is it suddenly something that needs to be counted against HCR?

Because it's part of health care.

982 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:58:33am

re: #972 Cato the Elder

One of the top rules of gun safety is "never point a weapon - loaded or unloaded - at something you are not willing to destroy."

Guess maybe they didn't trust the photographer.

That pack is so paranoid its amazing they even posed for photos.

983 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:59:11am

re: #973 kingkenrod

Because you don't get to pretend costs don't exist. A reform bill should address any real costs. If you ignore something important, it suggests you aren't doing your job.

The main purpose of the bill was not to address costs, though it will help, but to reform insurance and provide insurance for those who don't have it.


The Dems considered including a permanent doc fix in early versions of the legislation but dropped it because it cost too much. Now why would they do that?!?!?!

Thats a lot of exclamation points and question marks.

I assume they dropped it for the same reason we're having this 'discussion'. It's not actually a part of the reform, it's happened every year, and I assume that they want flexibility to perhaps change it one year.

Your insistence that the HCR bill has to address every single governmental expenditure that relates to health care reform is ridiculous. Reform is still reform if it doesn't fix the whole problem. Incremental change is still change.

984 pingjockey  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:59:13am

re: #979 Ericus58
True. Spare parts are needed. The Iranians still have some F-14s, but I'll be damned if I know if they are airworthy? Probably not.

985 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 10:59:47am

re: #977 Gus 802


8-year-old

Which led to:

Club pleads no contest in boy’s death
Gun range gets probation and ban on automatic weapons

Good catch.

Eight years old? Were they planning to sell him to Congo as a child soldier?

986 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:00:50am

re: #981 RogueOne

Because it's part of health care.

Oh dear lord. So seriously, you're making the claim that any governmental cost for health care should be tallied against the HCR bill?

Seriously?

987 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:01:42am

re: #986 Obdicut

Oh dear lord. So seriously, you're making the claim that any governmental cost for health care should be tallied against the HCR bill?

Seriously?

Truth in advertising.

988 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:02:08am

re: #974 Slap

Yeah, I agree. (Not on the 'boys, but that's OK -- your deep abiding love for and loyalty to the Feat provides forgiveness.)

They USED to be fun. But the AFL was still in existence the last time that happened.

Paper Lion is still the greatest football movie ever...

Little Feat!
2 pts

the games I saw in Detroit always start out with a great vibe...tailgating, people having fun, excited about the game...but you can feel the enthusiasm die later in the game...the disappointment is palatable....I did see the Cowboys up there, and the Lions beat them a couple of times...Sanders went nuts and the fans loved it...they are troopers those people, hanging in there waiting for their time to come...it's really heartbreaking if you are a league oriented guy like me....I was absolutely thrilled to see the Saints finally win it all...

989 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:03:11am

re: #985 Cato the Elder

Good catch.

Eight years old? Were they planning to sell him to Congo as a child soldier?

Probably. I've seen some video online where they present recoil as being funny. It's not when you're dealing with an automatic weapon.

The family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the gun club, et al:

The boy’s family has also filed a $4 million lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Springfield against the club, the event’s promoters and those who supplied the weapon and ammunition.

That suit is pending, and the gun club remains a defendant.

990 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:03:19am

re: #985 Cato the Elder

Good catch.

Eight years old? Were they planning to sell him to Congo as a child soldier?

not so funny, Cato.....

991 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:03:32am

re: #987 RogueOne

Truth in advertising.

That makes no sense. The bill wasn't claimed as something that would solve every problem.

You're not offering a real argument.

992 Kragar  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:05:13am

re: #972 Cato the Elder

One of the top rules of gun safety is "never point a weapon - loaded or unloaded - at something you are not willing to destroy."

Guess maybe they didn't trust the photographer.

Rule 1: Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.

993 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:06:32am

Our Media's Awesome Sense of History


From Rick Stengel's introduction to his new self-help book, Mandela's Way: Fifteen Lessons on Life, Love, and Courage:

It is impossible to write about Nelson Mandela these days and not compare him to another potentially transformational black leader, Barack Obama. The parallels are many. ... And while it took twenty-seven years in prison to mold the Nelson Mandela we know, the forty-eight-year-old American president seems to have achieved a Mandela-like temperament without the long years of sacrifice.

Hey, you try getting into Columbia as a transfer.

994 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:06:45am

re: #930 Stanley Sea

Crazy wedding photo from members of the Hutaree militia.

They put the sub in subculture

There are 445 Tina Kelleys listed on Facebook. Anyone have a direct like to Camo Barbie's page?

995 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:08:14am

re: #992 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rule 1: Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.

at my range I think it's a rule to discard magazines, safety it and open the breech even when you just put it aside

996 Cato the Elder  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:09:14am

re: #989 Gus 802

The family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the gun club, et al.

Good luck with that. It was a legal shooting festival and the boy's father was by his side.

This is one lawsuit that won't pass the "moron" test.

997 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:10:40am

re: #991 Obdicut

That makes no sense. The bill wasn't claimed as something that would solve every problem.

You're not offering a real argument.

We were told the bill was deficit neutral. It isn't, and if you take for granted that the feds always under quote the cost of their bills (and you should) it's not even close to deficit neutral.

We're broke, what part of that do people not understand? Instead of looking for ways to save money and costs they're looking to continually add to our bill.

998 Slap  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:11:31am

re: #988 albusteve

League-oriented is a great description. Count me in. I'd rather watch a great set of players duke it out, regardless of the uniform.

(We've briefly discussed the Feat before. I always remember Feat fans.)

999 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:12:53am

re: #994 Cato the Elder

There are 445 Tina Kelleys listed on Facebook. Anyone have a direct like to Camo Barbie's page?

I read that it has been taken down.

1000 Gus  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:13:52am

re: #996 Cato the Elder

Good luck with that. It was a legal shooting festival and the boy's father was by his side.

This is one lawsuit that won't pass the "moron" test.

Right. Given that the father was present I suspect it will be difficult to win that lawsuit. Amounts to shifting blame which is a surprise because the father is an MD (Internal Medicine) so you think he would have been aware of the danger.

1001 albusteve  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:14:11am

re: #998 Slap

League-oriented is a great description. Count me in. I'd rather watch a great set of players duke it out, regardless of the uniform.

(We've briefly discussed the Feat before. I always remember Feat fans.)

they've taken a pretty serious hit this past year, but they are going to keep touring...not the same band at all...I want to cry

1002 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:15:15am

re: #997 RogueOne

Again: You're not actually presenting an argument. I can't really do anything with a non-argument.

We're broke, what part of that do people not understand? Instead of looking for ways to save money and costs they're looking to continually add to our bill.

The best thing to do when you're broke is to be pound-wise. The worst thing is to be penny-wise, and pound-foolish.

Most of the objections i hear to spending have nothing, nothing, nothing at all to do with whether or not the spending will save money down the road. It doesn't even factor into it.

1003 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:16:49am

re: #880 webevintage

Sorry, but it did include the fixes in the recon. bill:
[Link: cboblog.cbo.gov...]
[Link: cboblog.cbo.gov...]

Nope. They're referring to the House bill, just passed, and an earlier Senate bill, passed last fall. The "fixes" bills signed today are new legislation, the beginning of a slow, inexorable trickle of "corrections" that were left out to gin the CBO's numbers.

Summary: the bill costs a lot more than what was claimed during debate, and costs will continue to rise as reality continues to claw it's way out of the legislative muck; costs for both medical insurance policies and for medical care are expected to spike as a result of the legislation; and taxes will certainly be raised to cover some of the government's shortfall, particularly by taxing employer-provided health insurance as income.

Sweet. Everything's going to be so much better now and in the future.

1004 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:17:42am

re: #979 Ericus58

the real issue would be those parts that are included in major weapon systems that a British company supplied as a vendor to say like Lockheed for their F-16's. If they pulled the plug on supporting these systems with spares or tech help - it gets to be a bit dicier.

Israel is going to have to manufacture and support its own weaponry.

1005 garhighway  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:23:51am

re: #981 RogueOne

Because it's part of health care.

And therefore, when scoring the Health Care reform bill, every piece of re: #997 RogueOne

We were told the bill was deficit neutral.

If you have a problem with the costs of benefits of the bill, fine. Have at it. But saying that every Federal healthcare-related expense ought to be counted against it is utterly stupid. Let's make a list!

VA Hospitals?
Medicare?
The CDC?
The NIH? (Hell, they have "Health" right in their name!)
The Public Health Service (Ditto)
The Surgeon General's office?

Shall we go on?

C'mon. If you don't like the bill, talk about the bill. But going with bullshit GOP talking points is just wrong.

1006 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:24:14am

re: #1003 SixDegrees

Again: Given that health insurance costs have 'spiked' for twenty years, why blame the legislation for an increase in them?

1007 SixDegrees  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 11:26:23am

re: #947 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hutaree: Not on the fringe of militias

Interesting. I've heard two reports on this group today, one on NPR and the other on BBC, both claiming this group was WAY out there. Our local public radio affiliate was speculating, in fact, that this group was turned in by other militia groups, who were possibly working with the FBI, although they didn't provide much in the way of details.

Also, they've apparently been charged with sedition. That's rare.

Latest I've heard on the timing: word came in that something was being planned to take place in April. Nothing more specific, but the 19th marks the anniversary of both the Oklahoma City bombing and the awful conclusion of the Branch Davidian siege in Waco.

1008 rbottoms  Tue, Mar 30, 2010 2:41:10pm

Sigh. You know, waterboarding might be preferable to seeing all the comics I used to own up here every week.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh