Don’t Drill, Baby, Don’t Drill

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Sometimes you just have to laugh; President Obama really does have a way of twisting the GOP into uncomfortable ideological pretzel shapes: Boehner rebukes Obama offshore drilling plan.

President Barack Obama’s plan to allow expanded offshore oil and gas exploration won rebuke from the top House Republican on Wednesday.

House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) dismissed the president’s plan as not going far enough in opening up U.S. waters for exploration.

Obama’s decision “continues to defy the will of the American people,” Boehner said in a statement, pointing to the president’s decision to open Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico waters, while leaving Pacific and many Alaskan waters largely closed to exploration.

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281 comments
1 Kragar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:14:35pm

Boehner, you douchebag

2 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:14:43pm

OK, now they're just doing this to be annoying.

3 Bulldoglover100  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:15:17pm

It is becoming amusing watching their attempts to degrade Obama. While I differ with him on many things I feel that the Republican response is tiring.

4 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:15:55pm

At the risk of sounding like a cheerleader, Obama really is the most centrist President I've ever seen in my life.

It just tells you something when the Republican party has moved things so far to the right that what would by any standard be Moderate and Centrist has become synonymous with Socialist/Communist/Left Wing Whacko.

5 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:17:11pm

Drill this.

6 Fart Knocker  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:17:44pm

Why is the West Coast off limits to exploration?

I give the President mad props for being open to drilling off our coast.

7 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:17:49pm

re: #5 Cato the Elder

Drill this.

Rather not. Thank you all the same.

8 abbyadams  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:18:54pm

Yesterday he complimented Mitt Romney (thereby giving him the Godfather kiss of death.) Today he opens offshore drilling. He's just picking off potential GOP candidates one at a time. At this rate, they'll have to run Sarah Palin. Which is probably the goal.

9 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:20:35pm

Can't win them all can you. Boehner's response not only shows bad faith but it shows a high degree of cynicism. And yes I'm going to bring up President Bush. Where was he on this matter during his 8 years as president? Now Obama proposes this much to the consternation of environmentalists and he gets this rebuke?

10 keloyd  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:20:52pm

Wait a minute. I read through that Boehner quote a few times. He's not saying "don't drill" just to spite Obama. He's wants to open up more off-shore area to exploration. "Obama, you're going too slow on this" is not hypocritical or illogical, as a political move. That's good solid orthodox Republican talk. I'm giving Boehner a pass on this one.

11 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:21:10pm

re: #5 Cato the Elder

Drill this.

OMG Cato. That's hilarious.

12 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:21:57pm

re: #6 rwdflynavy

Why is the West Coast off limits to exploration?

Because the people who live on the West Coast are pretty solidly against it, and well-organized politically.

13 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:22:13pm

Good stuff here on this:

A Hill staffer I know emails with an alternative look at the same dynamic, suggesting President Obama is playing a game we've seen before. I'm republishing the staffer's email with permission.

Obama preempts the other side's most resonant arguments, which forces them to come up with more and more extreme claims in order to differentiate themselves. In the end, he occupies the reasonable middle ground and his opponents are Palinized. It doesn't always work -- on the national security/gitmo/Miranda stuff, for example, it turns out the utter extreme positions the right is left with given the centrist ground Obama has staked out turns out to be fairly popular. But even there, the Administration has had reasonable success pushing back on the Miranda nonsense and, because they effectively occupy the tough, pragmatic middle ground, they routinely get cover from non-crazy Republican national security voices, which has helped blunt the force of these issues. (I understand that the term "middle ground" is very slippery and dangerous here, but I basically use it to mean policies that, before the great crazy of 2009 had broad consensus support from large portions of both parties and the Broder/Friedman/Brooks axis.)

At the same time, the policy is a tailored, measured version of what the Republicans have urged -- so, yes, the headline is, 'Obama Allows New Offshore Drilling/Presses For Energy Independence,' but at the same time, California/Oregon/Washington where opposition is strongest isn't included, and there are environmentally-friendly changes to Alaska leasing policy announced at the same time. And again, as we've seen before, Republicans are sort of forced to twist and parse, and even to oppose things they have long supported, just because the Administration hasn't gone far enough.

Finally, by announcing the drilling policy without seeking to extract concessions, the Administration makes clear that it is their policy and they are the centrist/flexible/pragmatic ones -- making it harder for Republicans to argue that they accomplished this or that they forced Obama to do it. [...]

[O]f course, if there was any reason to believe that Republicans would engage in normal negotiation/compromise, then I see why holding this back and trading it for support of a broader package would make sense. But does anyone really think there are Republicans to negotiate with on this stuff? And if Republicans do come to the table, Obama still has plenty of room to give, including by simply agreeing to sign a law that makes proposals like this a matter of statute, not executive discretion.

Bingo.

14 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:24:16pm

As a lefty, can I tell you that Obama would be getting a ton of heat from our side (and probably will anyway) for this. We really don't want drilling (or nuclear power). But Obama is pretty smart and he can see that the Republicans will jump all over this as BAD because he proposed it, so his supporters will not jump in quite so fast to agree with Republicans. Pretty smart.

But I do hate that the window is moved SO FAR over that this guy, who probably be at home with Nixon's policies, is a Democrat today. If Republicans had not alienated minorities I can see a world where Obama is YOUR guy. (Now I see heads exploding LOL)

And the final irony is that Republicans are "winning," by moving the debate center to the right.

Weird old world...

15 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:24:21pm

re: #10 keloyd

Wait a minute. I read through that Boehner quote a few times. He's not saying "don't drill" just to spite Obama. He's wants to open up more off-shore area to exploration. "Obama, you're going too slow on this" is not hypocritical or illogical, as a political move. That's good solid orthodox Republican talk. I'm giving Boehner a pass on this one.

Orthodox Republican talk? I think a better resoponse from Boehner would have been, "We welcome today's announcement by the president. The GOP looks forward to working with the White House along with Senate and House Democrats to accelerate his proposals which we believe will greatly benefit this nation." Nope, instead we get the sour grapes.

16 Four More Tears  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:24:47pm

re: #10 keloyd

Wait a minute. I read through that Boehner quote a few times. He's not saying "don't drill" just to spite Obama. He's wants to open up more off-shore area to exploration. "Obama, you're going too slow on this" is not hypocritical or illogical, as a political move. That's good solid orthodox Republican talk. I'm giving Boehner a pass on this one.

No, he's not saying don't drill, but he is using the decision to attack Obama.

Obama’s decision “continues to defy the will of the American people,” Boehner said in a statement,

17 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:25:43pm

re: #10 keloyd

Wait a minute. I read through that Boehner quote a few times. He's not saying "don't drill" just to spite Obama. He's wants to open up more off-shore area to exploration. "Obama, you're going too slow on this" is not hypocritical or illogical, as a political move. That's good solid orthodox Republican talk. I'm giving Boehner a pass on this one.

I don't. It would be wise for Boehner to say that he's pleased that Obama's taking this move, that the Republicans have supported this for a long time, and that they would like to see him go farther, and not be timid about opening drilling. He could use that to make it seem as though Obama is using Republican ideas, easily. "I'm glad Mr. Obama heard our message on American oil resources, and we hope he will continue to hear us."

Instead, he's using this crazy language about 'defying the will of the American people', just more partisan crap designed to make Obama look as extreme as possible.

18 ShaunP  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:26:10pm

re: #15 Gus 802

Orthodox Republican talk? I think a better resoponse from Boehner would have been, "We welcome today's announcement by the president. The GOP looks forward to working with the White House along with Senate and House Democrats to accelerate his proposals which we believe will greatly benefit this nation." Nope, instead we get the sour grapes.

Words out of my mouth. Another alternative:

"This is a great first step, but we need to continue to work harder towards energy independence..."

20 uninformed opinion  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:27:03pm

The whole thing is crap, we can drill in other places. I live in an extractive energy state, more focus on natural gas could get us away from offshore drilling.

21 abbyadams  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:27:19pm

re: #14 JoyousMN

He is getting a ton of heat from the left. They are very unhappy with this. I'm not crazy about it, to tell you the truth...because I think we are at a point where continuing to mine for fossil fuels is putting a band aid on a broken arm.

However, I am willing to accept more exploration if we sink more cash into alternative sources of fuel, and start weaning ourselves off of petroleum, coal, etc.

22 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:27:24pm

re: #19 Charles

Schwarzenegger Still Opposes Offshore Drilling.

But he's not a Republican!

//

23 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:28:16pm

Maybe, according to Boehner, the "American people" is Sarah.

24 Four More Tears  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:28:17pm

re: #22 Gus 802

But he's not a Republican!

//

Terminator in Name Only!

25 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:28:36pm

re: #24 JasonA

Terminator in Name Only!

TINO!

26 keloyd  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:29:39pm

re: #4 bloodstar

At the risk of sounding like a cheerleader, Obama really is the most centrist President I've ever seen in my life.

It just tells you something when the Republican party has moved things so far to the right that what would by any standard be Moderate and Centrist has become synonymous with Socialist/Communist/Left Wing Whacko.

If anything, Nixon's experimentation* with the economy, drug war, and civil rights issues puts him slightly left of Obama so far. If he keeps hiding his sekrit Muslim Mombassan Communism behind centrist actions like this, I'll be happy.

*price controls, methadone clinics, studies about marijuana that pissed him right off, but he at least looked into it, mild forms of affirmative action, and massive support of historically black colleges, and this from a guy whose sense of fair play, when he was sober, extended to (Black) Americans who he didn't believe were his equal in any way. I think the History Channel should do 3 hours every week on Nixon.

27 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:30:11pm

Bottom line here is that Boehner once again makes himself look like a fool...by the way, I saw him getting interviewed the other day...Boehner's a short little prick, so there could be some 'little-man complex' going on here as well.

28 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:30:56pm

re: #27 darthstar

Bottom line here is that Boehner once again makes himself look like a fool...by the way, I saw him getting interviewed the other day...Boehner's a short little prick, so there could be some 'little-man complex' going on here as well.

I think he's just jealous that Obama has a normal, human skin color.

29 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:31:01pm

Gov. Charlies Crist (R-FL) opposed offshore oil and gas drilling.

Gov. Jeb Bush (R-FL) opposed offshore oil and gas drilling.

[crickets]

30 JoyousMN  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:31:07pm

re: #4 bloodstar

At the risk of sounding like a cheerleader, Obama really is the most centrist President I've ever seen in my life.

It just tells you something when the Republican party has moved things so far to the right that what would by any standard be Moderate and Centrist has become synonymous with Socialist/Communist/Left Wing Whacko.

I missed this. Sorry. That was exactly what I was trying to say.

31 uninformed opinion  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:31:19pm

re: #28 SanFranciscoZionist

I think he's just jealous that Obama has a normal, human skin color.

the orange color seems unnatural...

32 Four More Tears  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:31:34pm

re: #27 darthstar

Bottom line here is that Boehner once again makes himself look like a fool...by the way, I saw him getting interviewed the other day...Boehner's a short little prick, so there could be some 'little-man complex' going on here as well.

That's "little golden-skinned man."

33 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:31:51pm

re: #29 Gus 802

Gov. Charles Crist that is. PIMF

34 uninformed opinion  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:32:25pm

re: #32 JasonA

That's "little golden-skinned man."

someone called it irradiated leather. i think it works.

35 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:33:14pm

In other wing-nut news, the anti-government "Christian" Militia Hutaree group (there's nothing Xian about plotting to kill police) have asked for government paid public defenders. Give them the busiest PDs you can find...someone whose opening words are almost always, "There's no deal, but if you plead guilty I'll see what I can do for you."

36 abbyadams  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:33:54pm

re: #28 SanFranciscoZionist

He's just upset about the racist tanning booth tax. /
Not making this up.

37 uninformed opinion  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:34:11pm

re: #35 darthstar

In other wing-nut news, the anti-government "Christian" Militia Hutaree group (there's nothing Xian about plotting to kill police) have asked for government paid public defenders. Give them the busiest PDs you can find...someone whose opening words are almost always, "There's no deal, but if you plead guilty I'll see what I can do for you."

i saw some wing nuts calling them leftist domestic terrorists. obviously they are all about the socialism.

38 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:34:47pm

Boehners correct

Although I applaud the Pres for going against his own anti drilling sentiments as well as great numbers of his own party, why not open it up to anywhere where proven reserves are?

39 ~Fianna  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:35:26pm

re: #35 darthstar

In other wing-nut news, the anti-government "Christian" Militia Hutaree group (there's nothing Xian about plotting to kill police) have asked for government paid public defenders. Give them the busiest PDs you can find...someone whose opening words are almost always, "There's no deal, but if you plead guilty I'll see what I can do for you."

Aren't public defenders teh socialzimz?

40 uninformed opinion  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:35:28pm

re: #38 sattv4u2

Boehners correct

Although I applaud the Pres for going against his own anti drilling sentiments as well as great numbers of his own party, why not open it up to anywhere where proven reserves are?

because even riggers hate north dakota.

41 keloyd  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:35:51pm

re: #15 Gus 802

Orthodox Republican talk? I think a better resoponse from Boehner would have been, "We welcome today's announcement by the president. The GOP looks forward to working with the White House along with Senate and House Democrats to accelerate his proposals which we believe will greatly benefit this nation." Nope, instead we get the sour grapes.

Agreed. That is a more classy choice of words. Bob Dole (maybe even Majority Leader Gingrich) would have done it like that. Still, he's not directly contradicting past Republican policy, and they've done exactly that so often that I"m a little surprised they didn't do it again.

42 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:36:04pm

re: #38 sattv4u2

Boehners correct

Although I applaud the Pres for going against his own anti drilling sentiments as well as great numbers of his own party, why not open it up to anywhere where proven reserves are?

Yep. Offshore oil and gas drilling off of Kennebunkport, Maine will commence at once.

//

43 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:36:34pm

Bush Official Dan Bartlett Admits Authorizing Offshore Oil Drilling Will Be Unlikely To Win Over Any GOP Votes

During an appearance on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, former Bush official Dan Bartlett said that the move is unlikely to get any Republican votes for an energy bill. While saying that he thinks it is a “shrewd move” that will “demonstrate…that the Democratic Party doesn’t just cater to the extreme aspects of their base,” Bartlett conceded that it will likely not win any Republican votes because “Republicans have made a calculation that cooperating with this administration at this time is not necessary for them to pick up seats“:

BARTLETT: This is a shrewd move by the White House this announcment they’re doing on energy and offshore oil drilling. … These are the things they need to demonstrate to their constituents that the Democratic Party does not just cater to the extreme aspects of their base … Now, do I think that this measure here will help grease the path for a climate change bill and bring Republicans on board? No. Republicans in the Congress have made a calculation that cooperating with this administration at this time is not necessary for them to pick up seats. So if this is more of a legislative maneuever in order to get a broader bill on climate change, unfortunately this is going to come up short.

Update Sarah Palin responds with a pair of tweets. In the first, she writes, "Drill, baby, drill." In the second, she praises Boehner's response and admonishes Obama for trying to win over conservative votes for an energy overhaul


And my favourite so far:

Update Newt Gingrich told the St. Petersburg Times that while he likes the idea of drilling, he thinks Obama is doing it too late. "If he's going to announce he's for drilling, he should announce that we're drilling now. I don't think the people want a party of manana," Gingrich said.


There isn't anything Obama can do that the GOP won't attack, and the GOP doesn't give a shit about the country--only about getting and keeping seats, and blocking every single thing Obama does. I think we can cal them the Party of No: No Ideas, No Class, No Integrity, and No Fucking Way.

44 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:36:49pm

re: #37 uninformed opinion

i saw some wing nuts calling them leftist domestic terrorists. obviously they are all about the socialism.

Rachel did a piece on them last night...the Southern Michigan Militia that 'cooperated' with the Feds and has been trying to distance themselves from the Hutarees admitted that they gave 'training' to the Hutaree militia at some time. Computers and email chains will be quite telling as this investigation continues. I'll bet more than one militia group is sweating this bust out right now.

45 soap_man  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:37:40pm

Meme: Obama is the most radical leftist president evah!

Reality: The most radical leftist president would never support off-shore drilling, more troops in Afghanistan, warrentless wiretapping, etc.

46 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:37:46pm

re: #42 Gus 802

Yep. Offshore oil and gas drilling off of Kennebunkport, Maine will commence at once.

//

Yep ,, as soon as the Kennedy clan signs off on those windmils off of Cape Cod

47 uninformed opinion  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:37:50pm

re: #44 darthstar

Rachel did a piece on them last night...the Southern Michigan Militia that 'cooperated' with the Feds and has been trying to distance themselves from the Hutarees admitted that they gave 'training' to the Hutaree militia at some time. Computers and email chains will be quite telling as this investigation continues. I'll bet more than one militia group is sweating this bust out right now.

probably more militia than i want to believe exist.

48 uninformed opinion  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:38:15pm

re: #46 sattv4u2

Yep ,, as soon as the Kennedy clan signs off on those windmils off of Cape Cod

not gonna happen, he made a statement against cape wind recently.

49 soap_man  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:38:19pm

re: #38 sattv4u2

Boehners correct

Although I applaud the Pres for going against his own anti drilling sentiments as well as great numbers of his own party, why not open it up to anywhere where proven reserves are?

Compromise?

50 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:38:20pm

re: #46 sattv4u2

Yep ,, as soon as the Kennedy clan signs off on those windmils off of Cape Cod

Therein lies the conundrum.

/

51 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:38:29pm

re: #28 SanFranciscoZionist

I think he's just jealous that Obama has a normal, human skin color.

OH NO YOU DIDN'T :D

52 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:38:30pm

re: #41 keloyd

Agreed. That is a more classy choice of words. Bob Dole (maybe even Majority Leader Gingrich) would have done it like that.

Nope.

53 Olsonist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:39:17pm

re: #6 rwdflynavy

Why is the West Coast off limits to exploration? ...

The West Coast already has drilling in the Santa Barbara channel. The field is pretty much dry but the oil companies want to sign a new lease. If the old lease expires then the OCs have to clean up and remove the rigs. It's cheaper to squeeze a few drops for a few more decades than to clean up and leave.

54 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:39:33pm

re: #43 iceweasel

Bush Official Dan Bartlett Admits Authorizing Offshore Oil Drilling Will Be Unlikely To Win Over Any GOP Votes


There isn't anything Obama can do that the GOP won't attack, and the GOP doesn't give a shit about the country--only about getting and keeping seats, and blocking every single thing Obama does. I think we can cal them the Party of No: No Ideas, No Class, No Integrity, and No Fucking Way.

This also is something that can't be passed by reconciliation. There will be GOP votes, but only if they can add 'killer' amendments to the bill (banning gays from teaching, repealing the HCR bill as an amendment, etc.). These, of course, will get the Democrats to vote against the bill, and then they can claim that President Obama doesn't even have the support of his own party.

55 abbyadams  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:39:41pm

re: #43 iceweasel

At this point, I can't disagree.

56 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:40:44pm

re: #15 Gus 802

Orthodox Republican talk? I think a better resoponse from Boehner would have been, "We welcome today's announcement by the president. The GOP looks forward to working with the White House along with Senate and House Democrats to accelerate his proposals which we believe will greatly benefit this nation." Nope, instead we get the sour grapes.

If he said that, though, he'd be called a RINO within minutes.

57 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:40:44pm

I would like to state that I, a conservative, gave the President "props" this morning.
/RINO-save it-I already said it-and you are wrong.:)

58 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:42:54pm

re: #37 uninformed opinion

I just love how they want to fight the gov't and don't want the gov't interfering in their lives but now want public defenders

59 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:43:24pm

re: #32 JasonA

That's "little golden-skinned man."

"What did he say?"

60 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:43:46pm

re: #58 Dreggas

I just love how they want to fight the gov't and don't want the gov't interfering in their lives but now want public defenders

But, but, the Constitution and all!!!

61 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:44:30pm

re: #59 WindUpBird

"What did he say?"

"These are not the droids you are looking for."

62 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:44:37pm

re: #58 Dreggas

I just love how they want to fight the gov't and don't want the gov't interfering in their lives but now want public defenders

"The government should stop interfering in our justice!"

*whispher*

"Oh. Well, when in Rome..."

*whispher*

"Well, when in jail..."

63 keloyd  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:44:42pm

re: #52 iceweasel

Nope.

"Party of manana" - that's funny! It's the opposition's role to snipe at the majority party. That's just part of the game. I think we differ on where to put our expectations. "Go Faster" is such a pleasant change from "He's a Muslim", "African lion in the zoo, Lyin african in the white house", "he's not my president", etc. I support with some enthusiasm even the opportunistic political sniping that still has some decorum and consistency.

64 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:44:49pm

Heh...George Takei (Mr. Sulu from Star Trek) and his husband are doing a PSA for the Census. It's pretty good...should make a few GOP heads explode in the process.

Youtube Video
65 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:45:00pm

re: #35 darthstar

re: #37 uninformed opinion

re: #58 Dreggas

I just love how they want to fight the gov't and don't want the gov't interfering in their lives but now want public defenders


Somewhere out there, there is a lawyer who just barely squeeked by law school and who took the bar exam 12-15 times before passing

I nominate him as their mouthpiece

HELL ,, I'd even kick in a few dollars

66 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:45:03pm

re: #45 soap_man

Meme: Obama is the most radical leftist president evah!

Reality: The most radical leftist president would never support off-shore drilling, more troops in Afghanistan, warrentless wiretapping, etc.

But...but...CARS 4 CLUNKERS! WHAT OF CARS 4 CLUNKERS!!!!???

67 palomino  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:45:18pm

The right's response is no surprise. He could read one of Reagan's old SOTU speeches and the Repubs would still find a way to disapprove.

I guess Obama has given up on any gop support on energy legislation. Otherwise wouldn't he have held back on support of drill baby drill and nuclear power, in order to use them as bargaining chips with the gop?

68 soap_man  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:45:21pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

If he said that, though, he'd be called a RINO within minutes.

Yup. They would be blasted on tv and radio.

You know, a lot of people call Fox News the PR arm of the modern GOP. But I don't think that is the case. The modern GOP is the political arm of Fox News.

So damn frustrating. If there is any Obama proposal the GOP can support, it's this. But they won't.

69 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:46:32pm

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

But...but...CARS 4 CLUNKERS! WHAT OF CARS 4 CLUNKERS!!!???

Honestly, that was a joke.

70 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:47:12pm

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

But...but...CARS 4 CLUNKERS! WHAT OF CARS 4 CLUNKERS!!!???

hahaha cars for clunkers

"I've got this 2007 Mercedes SLK, it's all right but I need something that totally sucks. Can I trade it in for that 1982 Buick Riviera with a blown head gasket?"

71 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:47:32pm

re: #54 darthstar

This also is something that can't be passed by reconciliation. There will be GOP votes, but only if they can add 'killer' amendments to the bill (banning gays from teaching, repealing the HCR bill as an amendment, etc.). These, of course, will get the Democrats to vote against the bill, and then they can claim that President Obama doesn't even have the support of his own party.

Yep. I'm having problems with my internet connection but there's an article over at the Plum Line regarding a statement from Kerry's office about that. Kerry and Graham wanting to work together on climate legislation-- foolishly optimistic, imo. There is no way the GOP is going to do anything other than obstruct, obstruct, obstruct.

Note to Obama: GOP Is Not Interested in Compromise

If this doesn’t prove the claims that the Republicans have been politically motivated to oppose everything the Democrats propose, nothing will. As an experiment, President Obama should endorse John Boehner for re-election in November. The House minority leader would probably vote for his challenger.

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:48:11pm

re: #69 Cannadian Club Akbar

Honestly, that was a joke.

The program? It was fairly dorky.

73 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:48:58pm

re: #71 iceweasel

Well, if Democrats want to politically steal some GOP positions (like drilling) now would be the time I guess!

74 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:49:18pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

The program? It was fairly dorky.

No. It removed used parts from the market that people could use. And took money from those who deal in those parts.

75 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:49:34pm

Other responses:

Representative Doc Hastings of Washington, the senior Republican on the House Natural Resources Committee, said Obama is adding limits on Alaska exploration, restricting East Coast development and keeping the West Coast off limits.

"This hardly, in my view, looks like a move toward energy independence," Hastings said in an interview.

***

The U.S. oil industry's biggest lobbying group called today's announcement a good step.

"Exploring for and developing our nation's offshore resources could help generate more than a trillion dollars in revenue and create thousands of jobs to add to the already 9.2 million jobs supported by today's oil and natural gas industry," Jack Gerard, president of the Washington-based American Petroleum Institute, said in a statement.

76 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:50:30pm

re: #65 sattv4u2

Somewhere out there, there is a lawyer who just barely squeeked by law school and who took the bar exam 12-15 times before passing

Speaking of which...
College debate organizers unable to find any law professors to argue health reform is unconstitutional.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

El oh El.

77 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:50:49pm

re: #65 sattv4u2


Monica goodling may be looking for work.

78 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:51:31pm

re: #74 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. It removed used parts from the market that people could use. And took money from those who deal in those parts.

You've been reading Jalopnik, haven't you? :D

IIRC it's only the engine block that needs to be seized up, I thought the shell of the vehicle could still be out there for enterprising u-pull-it project car warriors to pick over. I could be wrong tho...

79 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:51:45pm

re: #75 Gus 802

Other responses:

This is wacky:
No Typo: Inhofe Praises Obama’s Energy Plan
But!

But of course he makes sure to get in a good jab:

“It also appears President Obama is caught in a contradiction: the President is, on the one hand, pushing forward with global warming policies to make fossil fuels more expensive, while on the other hand, he’s talking about drilling for more fossil fuels offshore. How does the President square these two policies?”

80 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:52:29pm

re: #78 WindUpBird

Yea, other than the engine, cars are worth a mint.
/

81 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:52:34pm

More trouble in paradise...it appears the guy who paid half of Sarah's 100,000 dollar speaking fee didn't buy himself the continued influence in the Tea Party that he thought he had, and now he's suing (buyer's remorse?)...

Bill Hemrick, the founder of the Upper Deck baseball card company, loaned Tea Party Nation $50,000, which went towards the $100,000 speaking fee given to Palin. He says the money was loaned on the condition that he could remain involved with the conservative political action committee that TPN founder and convention organizer Judson Phillips said he was putting together. Hemrick says that Phillips backed out of the deal, and even barred Hemrick from attending Palin's speech. He also claims that Phillips defamed him by writing an email to supporters saying he was not "reputable" or "trustworthy."

Anybody who pays 50,000 to hear Sarah speak (and then doesn't get to hear her speak) isn't trustworthy...they're nucking futs.

82 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:52:43pm

re: #76 iceweasel

Speaking of which...
College debate organizers unable to find any law professors to argue health reform is unconstitutional.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

El oh El.

They'll keep pushing that bullshit though! Fundraising dollars roll in when you talk big.

83 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:52:53pm

Three cheers for Obama's latest veer to the right in reversing himself yet again by approving coastal drilling...DRILL BABY DRILL!
And of course Boehner is 100% correct in stating that much, much, more drilling is needed.

84 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:52:56pm

Governor Bob McDonnell (R) of Virginia responds:

“I thank the President and Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar for ensuring Virginia will be the first state on the East Coast to explore for and produce energy offshore. The President’s decision to allow energy exploration off Virginia’s coast will mean thousands of new jobs, hundreds of millions in new state revenue and tens of billions of dollars in economic impact for the Commonwealth. It will also help our nation take a further step towards energy independence. Environmentally-safe offshore energy exploration and production is good for Virginia workers, the Virginia economy and national security. Just this session the General Assembly passed, with bipartisan support, legislation I requested to authorize offshore oil and gas exploration and drilling and to allocate 80% of revenues to transportation and 20% to green energy research and development.
...
Offshore energy production is one part of an “all of the above” approach to ensuring energy security. It is an important component of the comprehensive energy policy that we must enact to move towards greater domestic energy security. We will also do more in Virginia to promote and produce other sources of energy in our borders, including wind, solar, biomass, coal and nuclear. Today’s announcement means future new jobs for Virginians and much-needed revenue for our Commonwealth. Again, I applaud the President for his decision, and thank all the Virginia leaders from both parties who have worked together to make this announcement possible.”

I'd say Bob McDonnell took the high road.

85 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:53:27pm

re: #80 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea, other than the engine, cars are worth a mint.
/

I sometimes miss having a car that I could go to a wrecking yard and pull parts for. Then again, I like having heated automatic seats too...so I'm learning to deal with the loss.

86 Virginia Plain  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:54:14pm

re: #83 Spare O'Lake

Three cheers for Obama's latest veer to the right in reversing himself yet again by approving coastal drilling...DRILL BABY DRILL!
And of course Boehner is 100% correct in stating that much, much, more drilling is needed.

If John Boehner said what you just did, that would be so much better.

87 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:54:26pm

re: #79 iceweasel

Ah yes, the jab.

James Inhofe, psychoanalyst and social worker.

/

88 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:54:35pm

re: #60 Cannadian Club Akbar

In my real 'Merikan constitution there's nothing that says you get a lawyer.

89 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:54:39pm

re: #73 WindUpBird

Well, if Democrats want to politically steal some GOP positions (like drilling) now would be the time I guess!

Yes it is, and if they are smart they will do so.

90 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:54:59pm

re: #85 darthstar

I sometimes miss having a car that I could go to a wrecking yard and pull parts for. Then again, I like having heated automatic seats too...so I'm learning to deal with the loss.

I live in Florida. I don't need heated seats.:)

91 soap_man  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:55:03pm

re: #84 Gus 802

Governor Bob McDonnell (R) of Virginia responds:

I'd say Bob McDonnell took the high road.

Good for him. Obama gets more support from govs who don't have to worry about being in the congressional mob. They, god fucking forbid, look at things in the perspective of whats good for their state.

92 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:55:25pm

re: #83 Spare O'Lake

Three cheers for Obama's latest veer to the right in reversing himself yet again by approving coastal drilling...DRILL BABY DRILL!
And of course Boehner is 100% correct in stating that much, much, more drilling is needed.

Like Obama didn't already say that today?

The president began by touting his administration’s commitment to clean energy, through new investments and higher auto mileage standards. He announced a new plan to double the number of hybrid vehicles in the federal fleet.

“But we have to do more,” he continued. “We have to keep making investments in clean coal technology. … In the short term, as we transition to cleaner energy sources, we still have to make some tough decisions about opening up” coastal areas to offshore drilling.

“The bottom line is this,” he said, again apparently addressing environmental advocates. “Given our energy needs, in order to sustain econ growth and create jobs, … we are going to need to harness traditional sources of fuel.”

But he added, “We’ll employ new technologies that reduce the environmental impact of offshore exploration.”

“There will be those who strongly disagree with this decision,” he continued. “What I want to emphasize is that this announcement is part of a broader strategy” to move us to a reliance on “home-grown fuels,” including renewable energy sources.

He also addressed the criticism he’s already drawn from the right. “On the other side, there are going to be some who argue that we don’t go nearly far enough. … To those folks, I’m gonna say this: We have less than 2 percent of the world’s oil reserves. We consume more than 20 percent of the world’s oil. What that means is that drilling alone can’t come close to meeting our energy needs.”

93 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:55:32pm

re: #83 Spare O'Lake

Three cheers for Obama's latest veer to the right in reversing himself yet again by approving coastal drilling...DRILL BABY DRILL!
And of course Boehner is 100% correct in stating that much, much, more drilling is needed.

So did President Obama defy your will or not? Both men can't be 100% correct. And if you look closely, you'll find that President Obama has never been against drilling per se...he just thinks we should focus on alternative energy in addition to drilling for oil.

94 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:56:01pm

re: #80 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea, other than the engine, cars are worth a mint.
/

Bah, where's your sense of adventure? Now's the time to take that clunkerized BMW 850 and drop a crate LS6 into it!

95 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:56:57pm

re: #88 Dreggas

In my real 'Merikan constitution there's nothing that says you get a lawyer.

Just sayin' what they're prolly sayin". Just sayin".

96 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:57:50pm

re: #94 WindUpBird

Bah, where's your sense of adventure? Now's the time to take that clunkerized BMW 850 and drop a crate LS6 into it!

Or a 327, 4 BBL Chevy engine into a Vega.

97 Gusbenz  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:57:52pm

Most Republicans should be somewhat happy about this. It's a step forward, as was the okay to build new nuclear reactors. It's fine to attack the President, but attacking him for the sake of attacking him is tiresome indeed.

98 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:58:07pm

re: #93 darthstar

So did President Obama defy your will or not? Both men can't be 100% correct. And if you look closely, you'll find that President Obama has never been against drilling per se...he just thinks we should focus on alternative energy in addition to drilling for oil.

Drill in the short term, alt. energy in the long term.

Sounds fine to me!

And no drilling in the Wildlife Refuge. Hey, cool!

99 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:58:09pm

re: #68 soap_man

Yup. They would be blasted on tv and radio.

You know, a lot of people call Fox News the PR arm of the modern GOP. But I don't think that is the case. The modern GOP is the political arm of Fox News.

So damn frustrating. If there is any Obama proposal the GOP can support, it's this. But they won't.

That's what David Frum has been saying. The GOP is really being led by Glenn Beck more than any elected official. I agree with you and Frum and I find it deplorable.

100 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:58:14pm

Huh? What's the GOP going to do next? Advocate federal funding for family planning clinics in order to cut down on abortion? It's like the one foot that isn't shoved in the GOP's mouth has just been shot through at close range. Bravo, Mr. President.

101 palomino  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:58:28pm

re: #93 darthstar

So did President Obama defy your will or not? Both men can't be 100% correct. And if you look closely, you'll find that President Obama has never been against drilling per se...he just thinks we should focus on alternative energy in addition to drilling for oil.

Oh, silly you, with your nuance and facts.

102 Virginia Plain  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:58:43pm

I hope the Republicans lose big time in 2010.

103 captdiggs  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:59:19pm

I have to laugh.
The NY Times headline "Obama proposes...drilling..."
Then again, as candidate Obama:

"The senator from Illinois has spoken out against offshore drilling since Sen. John McCain in June proposed striking down the federal moratorium banning offshore oil and gas drilling to help alleviate high gas prices. "
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

It would be nice if he came out and said " You know, John McCain was right..."

104 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:59:33pm

re: #102 Virginia Plain

I hope the Republicans lose big time in 2010.

They're doing their best to break the mid-term election pattern of the minority party having big gains.

105 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:59:37pm

re: #98 WindUpBird

Drill in the short term, alt. energy in the long term.

Sounds fine to me!

And no drilling in the Wildlife Refuge. Hey, cool!

We agree. (I'm going to Republican hell, ain't I!!/)

106 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:59:53pm

re: #6 rwdflynavy

Why is the West Coast off limits to exploration?

Santa Barbara, 1969

Prince William Sound, 1989

I can see derricks out in the Santa Barbara channel from my window, including the infamous Platform A, I personally like them and hope they remain as marine sanctuaries after they're retired. But the opposition to new drilling here is very old, well connected, and they have deep pockets. Obama isn't going to openly slap the people he met out here at Oprah's Montecito fundraiser. He's a centrist, not an idiot.

107 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:59:59pm

re: #96 Cannadian Club Akbar

Or a 327, 4 BBL Chevy engine into a Vega.

Yeah, but I'm too young to really convincingly drive a muscle Vega with any authority :D

A friend of mine had a 1969 Dodge Dart in high school. He was TINY, and the car might as well have been a living room on wheels, it totally dwarfed him.

108 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:00:31pm

re: #103 captdiggs

I have to laugh.
The NY Times headline "Obama proposes...drilling..."
Then again, as candidate Obama:

"The senator from Illinois has spoken out against offshore drilling since Sen. John McCain in June proposed striking down the federal moratorium banning offshore oil and gas drilling to help alleviate high gas prices. "
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

It would be nice if he came out and said " You know, John McCain was right..."

That he'll never do. Obama always wants the credit. Most the attacks on him lately have been off base, but he is still a egotist.

109 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:00:33pm

Heh. I like the tags on this post. "pretzel shapes" FTW!

110 palomino  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:01:02pm

re: #102 Virginia Plain

I hope the Republicans lose big time in 2010.

Seems to me that the big contradiction of 2010 is that the gop will likely make significant gains at the same time the right wing is pulling the party off the rails.

111 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:01:05pm

re: #105 Cannadian Club Akbar

We agree. (I'm going to Republican hell, ain't I!!/)

It's okay, I piss off a lot of Democrats too :D (less around here, more on other forums where they congregate and spill their walnuts on my internet)

112 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:01:17pm

re: #76 iceweasel

Speaking of which...
College debate organizers unable to find any law professors to argue health reform is unconstitutional.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

El oh El.

Perhaps they could get Mark Levins phone number. he would be more than happy too

Oh el Oh

113 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:02:03pm

re: #105 Cannadian Club Akbar

And I agree with you both.

114 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:02:09pm

re: #112 sattv4u2

Perhaps they could get Mark Levins phone number. he would be more than happy too

Oh el Oh

Mark Levin. HA!

BTW, what is OLO? Would that be the sound of a wingnut choking?

115 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:02:12pm

re: #110 palomino

Seems to me that the big contradiction of 2010 is that the gop will likely make significant gains at the same time the right wing is pulling the party off the rails.

Well, there's definitely seats that have only been won by Dems because of Obama's turnout. They'll make gains, it's precedent for it to happen. The question is will they fully exploit their midterm opportunity.

116 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:02:37pm

re: #103 captdiggs


It would be nice if he came out and said " You know, John McCain was right..."


John McCain can't remember what he said last week. That became apparent when he was unable to answer a simple question about how he felt about campaigning with Sarah Palin again. "uh...could you repeat the question?" McCain's not all there anymore, I fear.

117 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:03:01pm

re: #109 iceweasel

Heh. I like the tags on this post. "pretzel shapes" FTW!

That's funny. Just noticed that.

118 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:03:12pm

re: #114 iceweasel

Mark Levin. HA!

BTW, what is OLO? Would that be the sound of a wingnut choking?

I thought Oleo was fake butter. What? Wait.
/

119 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:03:27pm

re: #114 iceweasel

Mark Levin. HA!

BTW, what is OLO? Would that be the sound of a wingnut choking?

if he's such a "ha", why doesn't Think Progress issue the challenge?

120 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:03:42pm

re: #92 iceweasel

I never said Obama was not brilliant - of course he addressed it. But even so, what he said does not answer the need for much more drilling...after all, drilling is what could increase the reserves from 2% to whatever greater percentage can be confirmed.
Also, as correctly pointed out by Charles, the real obstacle to much more drilling is not so much Obama's opposition as it is the opposition of the selfish NIMBY coastal States.

121 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:03:45pm

re: #114 iceweasel

Mark Levin. HA!

BTW, what is OLO? Would that be the sound of a wingnut choking?

Oh Mark Levin. He's like the bronze medal Michael Savage. Savage is a real broadcaster, Levin sounds like a cranky program director who just fired his host and has to do the show himself.

122 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:04:20pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

if he's such a "ha", why doesn't Think Progress issue the challenge?

Because Think Progress doesn't exploit the disabled? :D :D

123 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:04:43pm

re: #121 WindUpBird

Oh Mark Levin. He's like the bronze medal Michael Savage. Savage is a real broadcaster, Levin sounds like a cranky program director who just fired his host and has to do the show himself.

The question was about constitutional scholars/ lawyers

Not voice over characters nor radio hosts

124 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:04:46pm

re: #93 darthstar

So did President Obama defy your will or not? Both men can't be 100% correct. And if you look closely, you'll find that President Obama has never been against drilling per se...he just thinks we should focus on alternative energy in addition to drilling for oil.

He was against it before he was in favour of it.

125 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:04:54pm

re: #120 Spare O'Lake

I never said Obama was not brilliant - of course he addressed it. But even so, what he said does not answer the need for much more drilling...after all, drilling is what could increase the reserves from 2% to whatever greater percentage can be confirmed.
Also, as correctly pointed out by Charles, the real obstacle to much more drilling is not so much Obama's opposition as it is the opposition of the selfish NIMBY coastal States.

I have no problem with drilling off Oregon!

126 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:04:58pm

We're over a hundred posts now, so, OT (this is making me ill):

Catholic League: Church Abuse Scandal Is A Crisis Of ‘Homosexuality,’ Not ‘Pedophilia’

Last night on Larry King Live, Catholic League President Bill Donahue tried to dismiss this argument by claiming that “it’s not a pedophilia” because “most of the victims were post pubescent,” as old as 12 or 13 years of age. Anything older than that is the fault of gays.

Disgusting. There's also a NYT ad by Donohue saying the same-- at link.

127 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:06:16pm

re: #103 captdiggs

I have to laugh.
The NY Times headline "Obama proposes...drilling..."
Then again, as candidate Obama:

"The senator from Illinois has spoken out against offshore drilling since Sen. John McCain in June proposed striking down the federal moratorium banning offshore oil and gas drilling to help alleviate high gas prices. "
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

It would be nice if he came out and said " You know, John McCain was right..."

Thank you for posting that...it saved me the trouble of looking it up.

128 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:06:16pm

re: #125 WindUpBird

I have no problem with drilling off Oregon!

I do...Oregon has some of the most beautiful coastline in the country.

129 palomino  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:06:19pm

re: #115 WindUpBird

Well, there's definitely seats that have only been won by Dems because of Obama's turnout. They'll make gains, it's precedent for it to happen. The question is will they fully exploit their midterm opportunity.

Of course they'll spin ANY gains as a big victory. But with all the predictions of taking back both houses of Congress, modest gains will be a huge letdown. Which will just lead to more tea party insanity.

130 captdiggs  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:06:33pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

Personally, I am cynical of this. It opens the door to years of environmental studies, probable litigation, and the usual delays before a single well is drilled.
In the mean time, he'll be trying to ram through cap-n-trade which, if passed, would come on line a long time before any oil was pumped from new wells
It's Chicago style politics, imo.

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:07:05pm

re: #120 Spare O'Lake

I never said Obama was not brilliant - of course he addressed it. But even so, what he said does not answer the need for much more drilling...after all, drilling is what could increase the reserves from 2% to whatever greater percentage can be confirmed.
Also, as correctly pointed out by Charles, the real obstacle to much more drilling is not so much Obama's opposition as it is the opposition of the selfish NIMBY coastal States.

Yeah, well, to hell with them. We should impose a Federal requirement that anyone with any oil or potential oil must drill immediately.

//Big part of summer when I was a little kid in Santa Barbara was peeling tar off the soles of my feet with baby oil after we went to the beach.

132 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:07:08pm

I think it's funny when we have a new post, but people stay on old ones. ARGUE HERE!! 5 cents.

133 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:07:27pm

re: #123 sattv4u2

The question was about constitutional scholars/ lawyers

Not voice over characters nor radio hosts

Do you actually think Mark Levin has a chance at debating this? At all? I'd LOVE it if he tried, but it'd just look like a bunch of linebackers tackling a blow-up doll. He'd have no chance, he can't even argue a point on his show. much less against a constitutional lawyer.

134 soap_man  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:08:07pm

re: #102 Virginia Plain

I hope the Republicans lose big time in 2010.

They won't, They will still post modest gains. Which will make them believe that all this crap is working. "Hey, look! We gained a few house and senate seats! All this socialist, enemy of America talk is paying off!!"

And they will double down on it. But the reality is that they will win seats not because of anything they do, but because of the natural and historic trends of what happens when one party controls everything.

Look, I vote GOP probably 60 to 70 percent of the time (probably closer to 80 percent in local and state elections). But I want the national GOP to lose in 2010. Hell, I want them to get crushed. Why? So they have to look in the mirror and say "Hey, maybe we should develop a governing plan that we can actually sell to the American people, you know, one that's more than generic talking points. Maybe we should take a page from Reagan and work toward expanding our base, not pushing everyone out. Maybe we should look to the center and not worry about the whackjobs."

135 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:08:14pm

re: #133 WindUpBird

Do you actually think Mark Levin has a chance at debating this? At all? I'd LOVE it if he tried, but it'd just look like a bunch of linebackers tackling a blow-up doll. He'd have no chance, he can't even argue a point on his show. much less against a constitutional lawyer.

IIRC, he is a constitutional lawyer.

136 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:08:18pm

re: #103 captdiggs

I have to laugh.
The NY Times headline "Obama proposes...drilling..."
Then again, as candidate Obama:

"The senator from Illinois has spoken out against offshore drilling since Sen. John McCain in June proposed striking down the federal moratorium banning offshore oil and gas drilling to help alleviate high gas prices. "
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

It would be nice if he came out and said " You know, John McCain was right..."

He is the president and he uses his words at his discretion. If anything John McCain should release a statement applauding the president's reversal. I believe that's how common protocol works in a hierarchical system.

137 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:08:22pm

re: #128 darthstar

I do...Oregon has some of the most beautiful coastline in the country.

Well, I don't want them to drill ALL of it, but if it's a necessary thing that must happen, I think the burden should be spread out among all coastal states. I'd love alternatives tho'!

138 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:09:07pm

re: #130 captdiggs

Personally, I am cynical of this. It opens the door to years of environmental studies, probable litigation, and the usual delays before a single well is drilled.
In the mean time, he'll be trying to ram through cap-n-trade which, if passed, would come on line a long time before any oil was pumped from new wells
It's Chicago style politics, imo.

I love it when people say "Chicago style politics" as if that means something sinister. It's simply a dismissive argument like calling everything "socialism" or "un-American"...now, Chicago style pizza I can understand...

139 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:10:26pm

re: #138 darthstar

Chicago hot dogs suck. No room for veggies on them unless it is sauerkraut.

140 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:10:46pm

re: #133 WindUpBird

Do you actually think Mark Levin has a chance at debating this? At all? I'd LOVE it if he tried, but it'd just look like a bunch of linebackers tackling a blow-up doll. He'd have no chance, he can't even argue a point on his show. much less against a constitutional lawyer.


You ARE aware that Levin IS a constitutional lawyer, no?

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:11:04pm

re: #135 Cannadian Club Akbar

IIRC, he is a constitutional lawyer.

yeah, and he's a radio host now.

Think he's sharp enough to debate people who are doing it at this moment?

I have actually heard his show, many times, I turn it on for kicks. He doesn't sound like a practicing attorney, he sounds like an angry grampa who makes up facts as he goes along. And besides, he's defending an impossible thing. He may as well be defending the idea of the flat-earth. It would be a debacle.

For a good broadcaster who's sharp and was a practicing attorney, I like Lionel. That guy is dead on, and can argue anyone out of any position.

142 captdiggs  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:11:30pm

re: #134 soap_man

But I want the national GOP to lose in 2010. Hell, I want them to get crushed. Why? So they have to look in the mirror and say "Hey, maybe we should develop a governing plan that we can actually sell to the American people, you know, one that's more than generic talking points


You mean like "Hope and Change"?

The democrats really had no "governing plan" in the last couple of elections other than "vote for us, we're not Bush".
You will see more of a "plan" emerge as we get closer to the presidential election, imo.

143 palomino  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:12:06pm

re: #130 captdiggs

Personally, I am cynical of this. It opens the door to years of environmental studies, probable litigation, and the usual delays before a single well is drilled.
In the mean time, he'll be trying to ram through cap-n-trade which, if passed, would come on line a long time before any oil was pumped from new wells
It's Chicago style politics, imo.

Could you define "Chicago style politics" in contrast with, say, TX or LA or even NY style politics?

144 captdiggs  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:12:22pm

re: #138 darthstar

I think you know what I mean.

145 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:12:23pm

re: #137 WindUpBird

Well, I don't want them to drill ALL of it, but if it's a necessary thing that must happen, I think the burden should be spread out among all coastal states. I'd love alternatives tho'!

A big infrastructure project putting high-speed rail between every major city on each coast and light-rail within those cities...or upgraded subways where they already exist.

146 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:12:36pm

re: #140 sattv4u2

You ARE aware that Levin IS a constitutional lawyer, no?

He's practiced law in the private sector and has some wingnutty think tank.

Here's what the debate organisers were looking for:

The University of Washington billed it as a debate among distinguished law faculty over whether the new federal health-care law is constitutional.

But while the four panelists at a packed event Tuesday may have differed on some of the finer points, they all agreed on the big question: They said the new law passes constitutional muster and that various lawsuits arguing the opposite — including the one joined last week by state Attorney General Rob McKenna — have little merit or chance of success. Even John McKay, the former Republican U.S. attorney for Western Washington (who was forced out in 2006 under contentious circumstances) said that while he sympathized with some of the political issues in play, he thought the lawsuits lacked merit. In fact, he questioned the timing and thrust of the cases: “One way to say it is, that this has to be seen as a political exercise,” he said.

Moderator Hugh Spitzer noted the lack of a vigorous dissenting voice. “I will say that we tried very hard to get a professor who could come and who thinks this is flat-out unconstitutional,” he said. “But there are relatively few of them, and they are in great demand.”

Sorry, your boy Levin doesn't qualify.

147 soap_man  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:12:57pm

re: #139 Cannadian Club Akbar

Chicago hot dogs suck. No room for veggies on them unless it is sauerkraut.

HERESY!!

Now that I'm done shouting, I'll let you know that Chicago-style hot dogs have relish, onions, tomatoes and (sometimes) cucumbers. They probably have more veggies than most hot dogs. Which is why people sometimes say "dragged through the garden" when they are ordering one with everything.

148 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:12:57pm

re: #141 WindUpBird

Weird. Lionel started at the same place someone else did. Hmm. Lemme see if I can find it.
/

By the way, it's a radio show, not a court of law.

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:13:11pm

re: #130 captdiggs

Personally, I am cynical of this. It opens the door to years of environmental studies, probable litigation, and the usual delays before a single well is drilled.
In the mean time, he'll be trying to ram through cap-n-trade which, if passed, would come on line a long time before any oil was pumped from new wells
It's Chicago style politics, imo.

Doing what the Republican candidate recommended during the campaign is now 'Chicago-style politics'?

150 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:14:23pm

re: #144 captdiggs

I think you know what I mean.

Yes, but do you?

151 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:14:50pm

re: #140 sattv4u2

You ARE aware that Levin IS a constitutional lawyer, no?

Yes!

And I have no confidence in his ability to be the one guy out of hundreds of brilliant legal minds who can totally prove them all wrong. He'd be destroyed.

I can find a climate scientist who's a total AGW skeptic. And I can find a doctor who performs unneccessary surgeries. All constitutional lawyers are not created equal. I can find one guy who holds a completely space-cadet outside-the-mainstream position in any field.

I'd honestly love. LOVE! to see him try. I'd pull up a chair, get my fritos and watch it live, it'd be magnificent.

152 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:14:51pm

re: #147 soap_man

Sorry dude!! Forgot about your avatar!! Cubs game?
/I know its a Blackhawks avatar, BTW.

153 dugmartsch  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:15:02pm

re: #26 keloyd

If anything, Nixon's experimentation* with the economy, drug war, and civil rights issues puts him slightly left of Obama so far. If he keeps hiding his sekrit Muslim Mombassan Communism behind centrist actions like this, I'll be happy.

*price controls, methadone clinics, studies about marijuana that pissed him right off, but he at least looked into it, mild forms of affirmative action, and massive support of historically black colleges, and this from a guy whose sense of fair play, when he was sober, extended to (Black) Americans who he didn't believe were his equal in any way. I think the History Channel should do 3 hours every week on Nixon.

Could you imagine the butthurt on the right if for some reason we were still on bretton woods and Obama went off the gold standard so that he could inflate the deficit and prevent millions of people from losing their jobs....instead of doing the same thing to kill millions of Vietnamese people.

When you have a 2nd grader's understanding of american history and a streak of xenophobia like victoria jackson and some of her tea party buddies, I guess Obama does seem pretty scary.

154 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:15:06pm

re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, well, to hell with them. We should impose a Federal requirement that anyone with any oil or potential oil must drill immediately.

//Big part of summer when I was a little kid in Santa Barbara was peeling tar off the soles of my feet with baby oil after we went to the beach.

I'm no expert, but why is it so objectionable to have drilling in the off-shore areas? If the drilling is a couple of hundred miles out to sea, would that really be such an aesthetic blight? And with today's improved drilling techniques, would it really damage the fisheries? I'm not at all sure that most of the opposition isn't totally irrational.

155 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:15:09pm

re: #146 iceweasel

Here's what the debate organisers were looking for:
among distinguished law faculty

Do they also have to be left handed, with a missing big toe and only wears a tp hat !?!?!

"That guy IS a constitutional lawyer, but he wears Hanes underwear , so no way is he qualified"

156 soap_man  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:15:25pm

re: #142 captdiggs

You mean like "Hope and Change"?

The democrats really had no "governing plan" in the last couple of elections other than "vote for us, we're not Bush".
You will see more of a "plan" emerge as we get closer to the presidential election, imo.

So you want to be like the Dems? The 2010 elections aren't important enough to have a plan to give for the American people? Only presidential elections are important enough for a group of leaders to sit down and think of how they want to govern? When you are the minority party, that means you are excused from having ideas?

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:15:48pm

re: #138 darthstar

I love it when people say "Chicago style politics" as if that means something sinister. It's simply a dismissive argument like calling everything "socialism" or "un-American"...now, Chicago style pizza I can understand...

These guys play hardball, all of them, at this level.

'Chicago-style' has that nice whiff of corruption, though, and it makes the president sound vaguely like Al Capone.

158 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:15:58pm

re: #155 sattv4u2

Here's what the debate organisers were looking for:
among distinguished law faculty

Do they also have to be left handed, with a missing big toe and only wears a tp hat !?!?!

"That guy IS a constitutional lawyer, but he wears Hanes underwear , so no way is he qualified"

Sorry, pal. They wanted distinguished faculty. Boohoo. Levin isn't.

Too bad. He would have had his ass kicked.

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:16:36pm

re: #144 captdiggs

I think you know what I mean.

Yeah, you mean that Obama's crooked.

160 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:16:42pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Doing what the Republican candidate recommended during the campaign is now 'Chicago-style politics'?

He comes at you with a knife, you come at him with his own proposed policy, that's the Chicago way!

161 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:16:48pm

re: #151 WindUpBird

He'd be destroyed

So why dioesn't Think Progress challnge him?

ggeee ,,, we've been here before, no!?!?!

162 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:17:17pm

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

These guys play hardball, all of them, at this level.

'Chicago-style' has that nice whiff of corruption, though, and it makes the president sound vaguely like Al Capone.

The usual transition right after referring to Obama's "Chicago-style politics" involves the words 'thug' or 'thuggish'.
I wonder why that is?

163 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:17:53pm

re: #162 iceweasel

The usual transition right after referring to Obama's "Chicago-style politics" involves the words 'thug' or 'thuggish'.
I wonder why that is?

I know:)

164 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:18:05pm

re: #146 iceweasel

Sorry, your boy Levin doesn't qualify.

No! He's distinguished! He has that cool LOUD VOICE *quiet voice* LOUD VOICE THE LIBERALS ARGH GOLD BUY IT NAO

Putting Levin in with that crowd would be hilarious, but they probably don't want their debate to become a gong show. I'm amazed anyone here is defending the guy, he's just such a goofy little crank.

165 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:18:09pm

re: #162 iceweasel

The usual transition right after referring to Obama's "Chicago-style politics" involves the words 'thug' or 'thuggish'.
I wonder why that is?

They'd answer, but they're too busy having the president ram their own words down their throats.
/

166 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:18:30pm

re: #161 sattv4u2

He'd be destroyed

So why dioesn't Think Progress challnge him?

ggeee ,,, we've been here before, no!?!?!

Why do you imagine Think Progress should?
You are aware we've been discussing a debate at a university, right?

167 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:18:48pm

re: #158 iceweasel

Sorry, pal. They wanted distinguished faculty. Boohoo. Levin isn't.

Too bad. He would have had his ass kicked.

Well ,,as long as they didn't narrow their search nor stack the deck

In that case, I suggest they call Hugh Hewitt, although a distingueshed faculty member, I do not think he's a "constitutional lawyer" per se, but I doubt he would turn down the offer

168 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:18:56pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Doing what the Republican candidate recommended during the campaign is now 'Chicago-style politics'?

"Chicago style politics" is another silly mindless talking point attempting to pin corruption mantle on Obama. Weak smear is weak.

169 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:18:59pm

re: #126 iceweasel

Mindless serial downdinging reminds me that black fly season is only a few weeks away.

170 captdiggs  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:19:16pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Doing what the Republican candidate recommended during the campaign is now 'Chicago-style politics'?

Being that I am cynical of his about face on this "drilling". I believe it's a sop to the center of the electorate that wants this drilling offered as part of a very smart and well thought out strategy to get cap-n-trade through.
The problem is that it will be years before all the drilling hurdles are passed, and there is always the chance that there could be no drilling due to any number of factors like the EPA and/or federal lawsuits, and Obama knows this.
One oil analyst I saw today on cnbc said it could be 10 years before oil comes on line, if ever, without the federal government "fast tracking" it with legislation.

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:19:18pm

re: #154 Spare O'Lake

I'm no expert, but why is it so objectionable to have drilling in the off-shore areas? If the drilling is a couple of hundred miles out to sea, would that really be such an aesthetic blight? And with today's improved drilling techniques, would it really damage the fisheries? I'm not at all sure that most of the opposition isn't totally irrational.

I'm not an expert either. I just don't care to see the coastal states' concerns about our natural resources dismissed as 'selfish'.

172 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:19:45pm

re: #146 iceweasel

Sorry, your boy Levin doesn't qualify.

Mark Reed Levin

Virginia State Bar Association status: No Malpractice Insurance

Attorneys without Malpractice Insurance

Each active member of the Virginia State Bar is required to certify annually whether he or she is engaged in the private practice of law and represents clients. Each also is required to certify whether he or she has malpractice insurance. This search includes the names of lawyers who have certified that they represent clients drawn from the public and do not have malpractice insurance. Virginia attorneys who are active and in good standing and whose names do not appear in response to this search certified that they have malpractice insurance or that they are not in private practice. This search does not include information about attorneys who are not in good standing and therefore not eligible to practice law in Virginia.

173 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:20:05pm

re: #165 darthstar

They'd answer, but they're too busy having the president ram their own words down their throats.
/

Yes, first ramming something down their throats, then slapping someone in the face....I have to say those peculiar charges to the RNC for the fetish club seem less and less surprising!

174 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:20:05pm

re: #162 iceweasel

The usual transition right after referring to Obama's "Chicago-style politics" involves the words 'thug' or 'thuggish'.
I wonder why that is?

Because it reminds people who have been carefully indoctrinated by the Murdoch press to remember that union members are "thugs" and that Obama has a weakness for unions.

Ergo, Obama is a thug and is currently sending his fellow thugs after Hutaree and Pamz Geller.

175 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:20:21pm

re: #166 iceweasel

Why do you imagine Think Progress should?
You are aware we've been discussing a debate at a university, right?

I see ,, so conservatives arent allowed AT A UNIVERSITY!?!?

oh , thats right

see Coulter, Anne
Horowitz, David
etc etc

Silly me!!

176 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:20:41pm

re: #161 sattv4u2

He'd be destroyed

So why dioesn't Think Progress challnge him?

ggeee ,,, we've been here before, no!?!?!


yeah this is all totally evidence of the fact that LEVIN IS SO SMART WE R AFRAAAID OF HIM

177 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:20:52pm

re: #169 Spare O'Lake

Mindless serial downdinging reminds me that black fly season is only a few weeks away.

Have another for complaining, Spare. I downding mindless posts, always mindfully. :)

178 freetoken  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:21:10pm

re: #154 Spare O'Lake

I'm no expert, but why is it so objectionable to have drilling in the off-shore areas? If the drilling is a couple of hundred miles out to sea, would that really be such an aesthetic blight?


Here in California the drilling would be quite close to shore. That would be true for some of Florida too, though there you would also have some drilling which is much farther from shore into the Gulf of Mexico.

179 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:21:24pm

re: #172 Gus 802

ahahahaaha OWNAGE

180 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:21:39pm

re: #175 sattv4u2

I see ,, so conservatives arent allowed AT A UNIVERSITY!?!?

oh , thats right

see Coulter, Anne
Horowitz, David
etc etc

Silly me!!

An academic debate, at a university, seeking distinguished faculty as participants. OH THE UNFAIRNESS!!1!

181 captdiggs  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:22:02pm

re: #156 soap_man

So you want to be like the Dems? The 2010 elections aren't important enough to have a plan to give for the American people? Only presidential elections are important enough for a group of leaders to sit down and think of how they want to govern? When you are the minority party, that means you are excused from having ideas?

If you want ideas, then all you have to do is go to the websites of the GOP candidates running.
Seriously just exactly what were the specific great ideas that anyone can cite that came from, say...Al Franken?

182 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:22:19pm

re: #172 Gus 802

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Hee. Thanks for that.

183 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:22:36pm

re: #180 iceweasel

An academic debate, at a university, seeking distinguished faculty as participants. OH THE UNFAIRNESS!!1!

by left handed, nine toed, bowler wearing Amish only on Tuesdays between 3 and 3:15

184 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:22:40pm

re: #179 WindUpBird

ahahahaaha OWNAGE

Not unlike Erick Erickson of Red State who I believe is not currently up to date on his license.

185 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:22:55pm

re: #177 iceweasel

Have an upding for consistency and nothing else.

186 windsagio  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:23:16pm

re: #177 iceweasel


By the way, when people complain about how others do their own posts it makes them look vain and weak >>

187 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:23:18pm

re: #175 sattv4u2

I see ,, so conservatives arent allowed AT A UNIVERSITY!?!?

oh , thats right

see Coulter, Anne
Horowitz, David
etc etc

Silly me!!

dude, when did I ever say that

Also, Mark Reed Levin: No malpractice insurance? if that's true then he can't practice.

Doesn't practice make perfect? ;-)

188 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:23:40pm

"flip flopping" from a bad position to a better position is a good thing, regardless of the reasons for doing so. it is up to the voters to decide if they reward or punish that sort of "flip flopper," but any leader who moves off of a bad position to a better one should be complemented, not condemned.

189 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:24:06pm

re: #154 Spare O'Lake

If the drilling is a couple of hundred miles out to sea, would that really be such an aesthetic blight?

You're high, the Continental shelf is incredibly thin on the Pacific side.

190 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:25:03pm

re: #181 captdiggs

If you want ideas, then all you have to do is go to the websites of the GOP candidates running.
Seriously just exactly what were the specific great ideas that anyone can cite that came from, say...Al Franken?

This is a great idea: [Link: www.minnpost.com...]

OOOOOH HISSSSSSS scorching! This took me a really hard 8 second slog through google to look up.


...that would withhold defense contracts from companies like Halliburton if they restrict their employees from taking workplace sexual assault, battery and discrimination cases to court.

191 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:25:05pm

OT: Beautiful day here...this morning, there were 12-15 ft swells, and from the ridge I could see the clear curls of Maverick's 6 miles west of me. Just checked the surf report, and they're getting up to 30 ft waves now. I love the ocean. Wish I could bust out of work and go watch the crazies in that shit. Sunday, the waves were pretty good...saw a guy walking back to his car with half of his surfboard under his arm--beautiful, brand-new looking board, too. I said, "Well, you don't look like you've had a good day." He looked a combination of pissed off and grateful to be on land again.

192 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:25:17pm

re: #187 WindUpBird

dude, when did I ever say that

Also, Mark Reed Levin: No malpractice insurance? if that's true then he can't practice.
Doesn't practice make perfect? ;-)

Can't practice means he can't debate?

Guess that will leave out MANY of the "academic" legal scholars at Universities that you and Ice are talking about

damn!

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:25:41pm

re: #175 sattv4u2

I see ,, so conservatives arent allowed AT A UNIVERSITY!?!?

oh , thats right

see Coulter, Anne
Horowitz, David
etc etc

Silly me!!

Oh, come on. Coulter canceled herself for political gain.

194 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:26:19pm

re: #186 windsagio

By the way, when people complain about how others do their own posts it makes them look vain and weak >>

The best part is that when they're not complaining about being downdinged, they complain that other people are getting updinged!
OH BOOHOO BOOHOO SO UNFAIR!

They're also generally the same people who sneak around downdinging others for such offensive posts as saying hello or goodnight.

195 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:26:44pm

I wish this for all...
[Link: commonsenselogic.blogspot.com...]

196 soap_man  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:26:48pm

re: #188 _RememberTonyC

"flip flopping" from a bad position to a better position is a good thing, regardless of the reasons for doing so. it is up to the voters to decide if they reward or punish that sort of "flip flopper," but any leader who moves off of a bad position to a better one should be complemented, not condemned.

There is a difference between "flip-flopping" (changing positions for political reasons only) and "changing one's mind" (changing positions because one was presented with newer or better information, getting wiser with age or personally witnessing something that challenges one's original position).

But, with that said, I agree with your post.

BBL.

197 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:27:47pm

re: #192 sattv4u2

Can't practice means he can't debate?

Guess that will leave out MANY of the "academic" legal scholars at Universities that you and Ice are talking about

damn!

He can debate! Sure! But he won't be sharp.

He'd be embarrassed. He'd be dismantled like so many Lincoln Logs.

Downding for being anti-education, hah

198 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:27:54pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, come on. Coulter canceled herself for political gain.

Sargeant Dan speaks for Ms Coulter??

[Link: politifi.com...]

It's a public safety issue," said Sgt. Dan Beauchamp

199 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:28:09pm

re: #194 iceweasel

The best part is that when they're not complaining about being downdinged, they complain that other people are getting updinged!
OH BOOHOO BOOHOO SO UNFAIR!

They're also generally the same people who sneak around downdinging others for such offensive posts as saying hello or goodnight.

Bullshit!! Down Ding. I mean Upding!! Me head hurtz.
/

200 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:28:28pm

re: #197 WindUpBird

He can debate! Sure! But he won't be sharp.

He'd be embarrassed. He'd be dismantled like so many Lincoln Logs.

Downding for being anti-education, hah

So ,,, back to the beggining

Think Progress SHOULD challenge him

201 captdiggs  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:28:32pm

re: #190 WindUpBird

I asked what "great" ideas he ran on, not what legislation he worked on since in office.
Now anyone can google, but I seriously doubt you have a clue as to a Franken "great idea" he ran on.

202 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:29:10pm

re: #200 sattv4u2

Isn't Think Progress just a web site?

203 webevintage  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:29:43pm

re: #126 iceweasel

We're over a hundred posts now, so, OT (this is making me ill):

Catholic League: Church Abuse Scandal Is A Crisis Of ‘Homosexuality,’ Not ‘Pedophilia’

Disgusting. There's also a NYT ad by Donohue saying the same-- at link.

Ugh. Gotta make this fast.
I spitting mad right now.

Guys, put on some sack cloth and ashes and do penance.
Real penance.
Give plane tickets to every victim and fly them to Rome and let the Pope personally apologise to each and every one.
Jesus, get a good PR firm.

Stop saying "yeah but they did it too".
I don't care what "they" do or did.

They are not The Church.

204 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:30:05pm

re: #200 sattv4u2

So ,,, back to the beggining

Think Progress SHOULD challenge him

hahaha you can keep on wishing, it won't happen

I'll tell you what it would do, it'd be a bunch of free press for his terrible radio show 8-)

205 palomino  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:30:44pm

re: #188 _RememberTonyC

"flip flopping" from a bad position to a better position is a good thing, regardless of the reasons for doing so. it is up to the voters to decide if they reward or punish that sort of "flip flopper," but any leader who moves off of a bad position to a better one should be complemented, not condemned.

True, but he's not really flip flopping here. Senator John McCain, the Republican presidential candidate, has eased his longstanding opposition to more offshore drilling, calling for increased production from the Outer Continental Shelf. Senator Barack Obama, his Democratic opponent, has said he would consider limited new offshore drilling in conjunction with alternative energy initiatives.

206 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:30:47pm

re: #202 darthstar

Isn't Think Progress just a web site?

I have the best insult here, but it would rile the masses. Both sides.

207 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:31:42pm

re: #202 darthstar

Isn't Think Progress just a web site?

re: #202 darthstar

Isn't Think Progress just a web site?

Yes ,, but I got that from here
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
the genesis of this

208 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:31:59pm

re: #154 Spare O'Lake

Unless I am mistaken, a company couldn't drill any further than 20 miles off their respective coast, that 20 miles being considered the respective country's territorial waters and such. I can drive up PCH (Pacific Coast Highway) past Huntington beach and see the oil rigs off the Cal coast and they may be 20 miles out (tops). They are visible from a long ways out.

I believe there are also limits to how big they can build these rigs. I watched a program on national geographic (i think) about how they build these rigs, tow them to sea, then sink them. There's a limit to the depths they (and human divers) can go.

209 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:32:15pm

Ah yes. The Great One. Mark Levin.

Mark Levin: Media Matters is "A Criminal Enterprise"!!!!11!!!!111

Youtube Video

What a voice. Just another shock jock.

210 windsagio  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:32:36pm

re: #201 captdiggs

Maybe you should ask people about the folks who ran in their own states or districts instead of hate-magnets for the rightwing. Not only would it be more meaningful, it would look less like you just Killing in the name

211 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:35:12pm

re: #208 Dreggas

Unless I am mistaken, a company couldn't drill any further than 20 miles off their respective coast, that 20 miles being considered the respective country's territorial waters and such. I can drive up PCH (Pacific Coast Highway) past Huntington beach and see the oil rigs off the Cal coast and they may be 20 miles out (tops). They are visible from a long ways out.

I believe there are also limits to how big they can build these rigs. I watched a program on national geographic (i think) about how they build these rigs, tow them to sea, then sink them. There's a limit to the depths they (and human divers) can go.

Then why do they oil companies care about 9000 feet or so? Robots, maybe?

212 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:35:46pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #198 sattv4u2

Sargeant Dan speaks for Ms Coulter??

[Link: politifi.com...]

It's a public safety issue," said Sgt. Dan Beauchamp

Oooppppsss ,,, forgot the "money shot'

The university's student federation objected to her even appearing on campus,

213 windsagio  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:36:24pm

re: #211 Cannadian Club Akbar

Then why do they oil companies care about 9000 feet or so? Robots, maybe?

Man, theres a 5 year old internet meme I'm desperately trying not to shout out right now >>

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:37:00pm

re: #198 sattv4u2

Sargeant Dan speaks for Ms Coulter??

[Link: politifi.com...]

It's a public safety issue," said Sgt. Dan Beauchamp

Per that story, as with all the others I've read, her security made the judgement call.

216 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:37:04pm

re: #213 windsagio

Man, theres a 5 year old internet meme I'm desperately trying not to shout out right now >>

So, go ahead.

217 palomino  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:37:38pm

re: #210 windsagio

Maybe you should ask people about the folks who ran in their own states or districts instead of hate-magnets for the rightwing. Not only would it be more meaningful, it would look less like you just Killing in the name

Still remember the first time I heard that RATM song. It was a watershed, kinda like Nirvana's first album...even a little like the Sex Pistols/early Clash.

218 windsagio  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:37:39pm

re: #216 Cannadian Club Akbar

its OVER 9000!!!! feet deep!!!

219 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:38:00pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

Per that story, as with all the others I've read, her security made the judgement call.

see 212

221 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:38:33pm

For the record, I am firmly opposed to people who oppose offshore drilling in US waters.

What we do now is, we let all the other places with offshore oil deposits drill their asses off, with all the concomitant ecological damage, while the Prius drivers here at home get to do both: suck up the gas and enjoy pristine shorelines. (And pretend their cars are ecologically clean.)

If we were anything less than abject hypocrites, we'd drill the shit out of the Chesapeake Bay and people would see up close and personal the injuries we inflict on other people's environments.

That, in my view, would do more than all the abstract altruism in the world to get people to rethink their habits.

But the general rule of thumb for Western nations is "not in my backyard". Dump all the shit on the brown people and enjoy the fruits without let, hindrance, or bad conscience.

And my targets here are not the ordinary Americans who couldn't give a wet fart about where their gas comes from, but the oh-so-concerned eco-drivers who couldn't give a flying doughnut about any of it unless a baby seal dies in Alaska.

Drill that shit!

222 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:39:26pm

re: #218 windsagio

its OVER 9000!!! feet deep!!!

Um, I wasn't talking human divers. And, I, also saw it on Nat Geo.

223 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:39:38pm

re: #211 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not saying that's not possible, they probably prefer not to shell out the money for the equipment involved, a robot built to withstand those pressures becomes quite costly.

I support more drilling as one prong of a many pronged strategy. There are limits on what we can do however. As is, Obama green lights this study now, the companies determine if it's feasible, then they have to build the rigs and drill the wells which will definitely take a few years. It's gonna be a long time before more rigs pop up.

224 windsagio  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:41:35pm

re: #222 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

225 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:41:38pm

re: #223 Dreggas

Not saying that's not possible, they probably prefer not to shell out the money for the equipment involved, a robot built to withstand those pressures becomes quite costly.

I support more drilling as one prong of a many pronged strategy. There are limits on what we can do however. As is, Obama green lights this study now, the companies determine if it's feasible, then they have to build the rigs and drill the wells which will definitely take a few years. It's gonna be a long time before more rigs pop up.

Right. Which is why I said earlier it would be 10 years or so, depending on technology.

226 freetoken  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:41:44pm

re: #211 Cannadian Club Akbar

The special rigs for deep water are essential a special type of ship, a sea going vessel that attaches to the bottom of the ocean.

They are very expensive, and very limited in the world. When Brazil announced their deep water discovery (which was overhyped by everyone), the Brazilians immediately cornered the market all the entire worlds' supply of deep water capability.

227 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:42:27pm

re: #224 windsagio

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Umm, I don't watch cartoons.

228 windsagio  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:42:57pm

re: #221 Cato the Elder

I think there's more of a case for holding onto our supply until we really need it. Right now we don't, and increasing supply, while nice at the gas station, isn't really that good of a general solution.

229 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:43:09pm

re: #218 windsagio

its OVER 9000!!! feet deep!!!

What?!?!?! 9000?!?!

Youtube Video
230 windsagio  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:43:39pm

re: #227 Cannadian Club Akbar

You seemed interested in the meme I mentioned, I was explaining it :p It was ALL OVER THE FREAKING PLACE in about 2005 >>

231 windsagio  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:43:57pm

re: #229 bloodstar

See? Somebody knows what I"m talking about >>

232 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:44:24pm

re: #221 Cato the Elder

who couldn't give a flying doughnut about any of it unless a baby seal dies in Alaska.

I was on an Alaskan cruise where we saw a polar bear rip a seal to shreds. Another passenger remarked how, even though he felt bad for the seal how awesome nature was, that the bear had adapted for it's owm survival and yadda yadda on and on. As we talked some more, he was absolutely appalled by the "eco damage" 'we" humans do

RECAP ,,, he's ON the fucking cruise ship with me ,, paid for the ticket and everything. I checked, the engines were NOT powered by gerbils on a treadmill (which, of course would also have been appalling to him))

233 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:44:45pm

re: #207 sattv4u2

Yes ,, but I got that from here
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
the genesis of this

So ThinkProgress reports on the fact that UW can't find college law professors willing to take the GOP side that health care reform is unconstitutional, and your solution is for ThinkProgress to challenge people to a debate? I don't get it...sorry.

234 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:44:51pm

re: #219 sattv4u2

see 212

Yeah. The student body acted out. There were threats made. All of this is deplorable.

Coulter made the decision. She was not banned from campus.

She is also so disgusting in what she says in that article, that I would be very, very careful about identifying her as a 'conservative' who is being abused by the liberal campuses. She should have been permitted to speak in safety, but she is not a conservative, she is a disgusting bigoted profiteer.

235 dr. luba  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:45:24pm

re: #80 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea, other than the engine, cars are worth a mint.
/

The point was not to prop up the automobile industry, at least initially, but to get low-mileage, high emission vehicles off the roads. Leaving the parts for resale would allow other similar vehicles to stay on the roads longer, so they had to go.

The program worked as planned.

236 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:47:14pm

re: #233 darthstar

So ThinkProgress reports on the fact that UW can't find college law professors willing to take the GOP side that health care reform is unconstitutional, and your solution is for ThinkProgress to challenge people to a debate? I don't get it...sorry.

Forget Think Progress

IF UW wants a debate, i'm sure there are constitutional lawyers (I mentioned Levin off the top of my head, but Hugh Hewitt would do also) that woukld accept. Why limit it to ACADEMIC Constitutional lawyers?

237 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:47:39pm

re: #235 dr. luba

The point was not to prop up the automobile industry, at least initially, but to get low-mileage, high emission vehicles off the roads. Leaving the parts for resale would allow other similar vehicles to stay on the roads longer, so they had to go.

The program worked as planned.

Yes. If you could afford a new car.

238 luther70  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:48:13pm

re: #103 captdiggs


I don't know I think at least since the first debate Obama has been open to offshore drilling.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

"The second point I want to make is -- is the issue of energy. Russia is in part resurgent and Putin is feeling powerful because of petro-dollars, as Senator McCain mentioned.

That means that we, as one of the biggest consumers of oil -- 25 percent of the world's oil -- have to have an energy strategy not just to deal with Russia, but to deal with many of the rogue states we've talked about, Iran, Venezuela.

And that means, yes, increasing domestic production and off-shore drilling, but we only have 3 percent of the world's oil supplies and we use 25 percent of the world's oil. So we can't simply drill our way out of the problem."

239 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:48:18pm

re: #235 dr. luba

re: #237 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes. If you could afford a new car.

And never needed parts for an old one

240 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:50:35pm

re: #239 sattv4u2

re: #237 Cannadian Club Akbar

And never needed parts for an old one

Wait. you mean people actually work on their own cars?
/need I?

241 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:51:52pm

re: #228 windsagio

I think there's more of a case for holding onto our supply until we really need it. Right now we don't, and increasing supply, while nice at the gas station, isn't really that good of a general solution.

Bullshit.

It's a case of keeping our own backyards clean while sending all the garbage to places that don't matter.

Never mind. We're creating capitalist economic opportunities for the people still healthy enough to scrounge for valuable waste.

242 windsagio  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:53:05pm

re: #241 Cato the Elder

Please don't tell me what I think Cato, its rude.

And I clearly said it was 'what I think'.

It is my position that we should hold onto those reserves until we really need them, which certainly isn't yet.

243 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:54:21pm

re: #242 windsagio

Please don't tell me what I think Cato, its rude.

And I clearly said it was 'what I think'.

It is my position that we should hold onto those reserves until we really need them, which certainly isn't yet.

Where/when did he do that?
He called your thoughts bullshit, but never told you WHAT to think

244 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:54:25pm

re: #242 windsagio

Please don't tell me what I think Cato, its rude.

And I clearly said it was 'what I think'.

It is my position that we should hold onto those reserves until we really need them, which certainly isn't yet.

I didn't tell you what you think.

I told you what I think. If that's rude, suck it up.

245 Lidane  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:54:33pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

That he'll never do. Obama always wants the credit. Most the attacks on him lately have been off base, but he is still a egotist.

This isn't directed at you personally, so please don't take it that way. I don't think I'll ever understand why a president being an egotist is considered a criticism.

Think about it. We're talking about someone who ran for the highest job in the land. Of course he's an egotist. Anyone who thinks they're the right person to run the country naturally has a healthy ego. It's pretty much a job requirement.

246 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:54:51pm

re: #242 windsagio

I saw a thing on NatGeo called "After Oil" or something. Was, actually, pretty good.

247 windsagio  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:56:16pm

re: #244 Cato the Elder

Fine then, don't say my opinions are 'bullshit', its rude.

Well you can call them that if you can prove it, you just posted some "OMG WE'RE HYPOCRITES!" stuff.

248 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:56:17pm

Okay ,, wife and son are pulling into the driveway

Gotta go sear some animal flesh on the grill

BBL

249 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 1:57:11pm

re: #245 Lidane

Yea, but saying "I won" kinda makes him an ass. Sorry.

250 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:00:02pm

re: #221 Cato the Elder

For the record, I am firmly opposed to people who oppose offshore drilling in US waters.

What we do now is, we let all the other places with offshore oil deposits drill their asses off, with all the concomitant ecological damage, while the Prius drivers here at home get to do both: suck up the gas and enjoy pristine shorelines. (And pretend their cars are ecologically clean.)

If we were anything less than abject hypocrites, we'd drill the shit out of the Chesapeake Bay and people would see up close and personal the injuries we inflict on other people's environments.

That, in my view, would do more than all the abstract altruism in the world to get people to rethink their habits.

But the general rule of thumb for Western nations is "not in my backyard". Dump all the shit on the brown people and enjoy the fruits without let, hindrance, or bad conscience.

And my targets here are not the ordinary Americans who couldn't give a wet fart about where their gas comes from, but the oh-so-concerned eco-drivers who couldn't give a flying doughnut about any of it unless a baby seal dies in Alaska.

Drill that shit!

Out of sight, out of mind. It's almost as though people believe that if they don't see oil drilling occurring within their sight it does not exist. Meanwhile, it is occurring in the far reaches of the globe and under less environmental scrutiny then it would if done within our shores. That's another aspect people don't consider. Oil produced domestically would have to adhere to EPA and other standards which are not applied in other countries.

To be morally consistent one would have to oppose oil drilling throughout the world. They can object it on environmental ground and as many do in the United States, aesthetic grounds. One factor that is largely ignored is the one you mention -- the social impact of foreign produced oil -- as well as oil that is produced with almost no environmental or safety regulations in place.

251 Lidane  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:10:39pm

re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea, but saying "I won" kinda makes him an ass. Sorry.

I don't disagree, but it's hardly the worst thing anyone has ever done.

When I think of a president being a real egotist, I think of Clinton and his affairs while in office, when he knew that there were people gunning for him and that they just needed a reason. I was pissed at him for years after that. He knew better and he let his ego consume him.

Obama saying "I won"? Sure, it's kind of a jackass thing, but in the grand scheme of things, not that big of a deal.

252 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:14:42pm

re: #250 Gus 802

Out of sight, out of mind. It's almost as though people believe that if they don't see oil drilling occurring within their sight it does not exist. Meanwhile, it is occurring in the far reaches of the globe and under less environmental scrutiny then it would if done within our shores. That's another aspect people don't consider. Oil produced domestically would have to adhere to EPA and other standards which are not applied in other countries.

To be morally consistent one would have to oppose oil drilling throughout the world. They can object it on environmental ground and as many do in the United States, aesthetic grounds. One factor that is largely ignored is the one you mention -- the social impact of foreign produced oil -- as well as oil that is produced with almost no environmental or safety regulations in place.

Thank you.

Kinda reminds one of all the fine people who like their meat nice and cheap and organic but would faint dead away if they saw a free-range slaughterhouse, doesn't it?

253 doubter4444  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:15:47pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

That he'll never do. Obama always wants the credit. Most the attacks on him lately have been off base, but he is still a egotist.

I'll bet you a six pack that he comes out inside a week and says something to the effect of "McCain has had a good idea, and I simply implemented it".
It'll be in passing, but it'll happen.
This guy may be a egoist, but he wants to get his way, too.
If it doesn't hurt to sat that, he will.

254 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:16:12pm

re: #247 windsagio

Fine then, don't say my opinions are 'bullshit', its rude.

Well you can call them that if you can prove it, you just posted some "OMG WE'RE HYPOCRITES!" stuff.

Rude is one of my specialties.

I'm crude.
I'm rude.
Get used to it.

255 blueraven  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:19:22pm

re: #103 captdiggs

I have to laugh.
The NY Times headline "Obama proposes...drilling..."
Then again, as candidate Obama:

"The senator from Illinois has spoken out against offshore drilling since Sen. John McCain in June proposed striking down the federal moratorium banning offshore oil and gas drilling to help alleviate high gas prices. "
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

It would be nice if he came out and said " You know, John McCain was right..."

Nice selective quotes from an article that is from August 2008! This is when Obama declared he wasn't against looking at drilling as part of a comprehensive energy policy. But as far as a means to bring down gas prices at their height in the summer of 2008...Obama was right about that.

His announcement on drilling is not all that surprising, since he said the same in 2008.

From the article:

Obama said Friday that he would be willing to compromise on his position against offshore oil drilling if it were part of a more overarching strategy to lower energy costs.

"My interest is in making sure we've got the kind of comprehensive energy policy that can bring down gas prices," Obama told The Palm Beach Post early into a two-day swing through Florida.

256 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:23:20pm

re: #252 Cato the Elder

Thank you.

Kinda reminds one of all the fine people who like their meat nice and cheap and organic but would faint dead away if they saw a free-range slaughterhouse, doesn't it?

Yes it does. I sometimes joke that free range chickens are provided with a comfortable pillow and tiny television set before they're shipped off to slaughter. It's organic to a certain extent but it still require the killing of animals.

With organically grown they may not use chemicals for pest and varmint control but there again there is no humane way of eradicating such pests. That means trapping and shooting. Most organic farmers will have a loaded rifle readily available to shoot Peter Bunny rabbit. That is if they're practicing chemical free agriculture. New South Wales has some guidelines for pest control in agriculture and methods of euthanasia includes:

Methods of euthanasia fall into two broad categories – chemical and physical. These methods may cause death by three basic mechanisms:

1. Hypoxia, direct or indirect;
2. Direct depression of neurons vital for life functions; and
3. Physical destruction of brain activity and destruction of neurons vital for life.

The method of choice for organic farmers would be numbers 1 and 3. Number 2 would require a chemical agent.

257 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:26:08pm

re: #256 Gus 802

I enjoy upsetting 'ethical' vegetarians by telling them how many animals die to make an acre of vegetable foodstuffs.

I don't mind anyone making a vegetarian choice, but pretending no animals died for that choice is stupid. Animals still died. Fewer, but not zero.

258 darthstar  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:37:22pm

I just totally figured out how to automate all of our shell scripts for command-line interface tests on the different Linux boxes we have from a single web interface. I'm fuckin' stoked.

259 bratwurst  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:40:43pm

re: #215 Gus 802

Mark Levin predicts "a huge uprising" when the Obama administration "start coming after" talk radio

That is still on the drawing boards for immediately after Obama and his goons starting coming after guns and ammo.

260 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:41:47pm

re: #257 Obdicut

I enjoy upsetting 'ethical' vegetarians by telling them how many animals die to make an acre of vegetable foodstuffs.

I don't mind anyone making a vegetarian choice, but pretending no animals died for that choice is stupid. Animals still died. Fewer, but not zero.

True. The only way to prevent that would be to have greenhouse grown vegetables. Otherwise as long as it's grown in the outdoors organic farmers will have to control pest birds, rabbits, feral pigs, and feral goats. There are more pest animals that could be added to that list such as moles, mice and rats to deal with.

There is organic farming pest control. Another link here. Most of which deals with insect pests.

261 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:42:43pm

re: #259 bratwurst

Mark Levin predicts "a huge uprising" when the Obama administration "start coming after" talk radio


That is still on the drawing boards for immediately after Obama and his goons starting coming after guns and ammo.

Don't register your guns!!111!!!!

G. Gordon Liddy

//

262 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:48:11pm

re: #256 Gus 802

The method of choice for organic farmers would be numbers 1 and 3. Number 2 would require a chemical agent.

If the same criteria were applied to burglars, I have to say that my choice would be Number Three every time:

"3. Physical destruction of brain activity and destruction of neurons vital for life."

That is, two to the chest, one to the head. Rinse and repeat.

And I speak as one who has more than once fended off a burglar here in the 'hood with explicit warnings to that effect. A laser sight helps, as you can ask the potential perp to look at its location on his body and visualize whirled peas.

263 bratwurst  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:48:25pm

re: #261 Gus 802

Don't register your guns!!111!!!

G. Gordon Liddy

//

A certain lizard was here on the weekend contending that gun registration is indeed a violation of the second amendment. I wish I were joking.

264 Gus  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 2:52:22pm

re: #263 bratwurst

A certain lizard was here on the weekend contending that gun registration is indeed a violation of the second amendment. I wish I were joking.

I remember seeing that. Let's see. Registering guns is for your own protection and also benefits law enforcement. You can also have a case where you buy a stolen gun that was used in a crime.

265 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 3:01:45pm

re: #260 Gus 802

Not to mention just the habitat destroyed in order to farm, those killed by the trucks moving the produce, etc.

266 Altermite  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 3:05:20pm

re: #265 Obdicut

Not to mention just the habitat destroyed in order to farm, those killed by the trucks moving the produce, etc.

Depends on the farm. Some smaller farms are remarkably well integrated with local ecosystems (see: biofarming), and all farms need shipping. Many alternative farms purposefully target local markets, which has the benefit of mitigating transportation damage.

267 Girl with a Pearl Earring  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 4:58:24pm

“One major flashpoint in the negotiations has been whether to share drilling revenue with states and to allow states to opt in or out of drilling along their coastlines. It was unclear late Tuesday whether Obama endorses revenue-sharing for states. “It appears the Northern Atlantic and entire Pacific Coast will now be under a de facto ban” for drilling, said Patrick Creighton, a spokesman for the Institute for Energy Research. Even if drilling is ultimately allowed in part of the Atlantic, Creighton said, revenue sharing is an essential incentive for states. The administration’s plans could meet resistance from at least 10 Senate Democrats representing coastal and Great Lakes states who last week raised concerns about “unfettered access to oil and gas drilling” that could jeopardize fishing, tourism and military exercises. The Interior Department retooled the current schedule of offshore leases governing 2007 through 2012 after a federal appeals court last April ruled that the second Bush administration had not done a sufficient environmental review of expanded drilling off the Alaskan coast."

I'll reserve judgement on Obama's decision until I see that his words match his actions.

268 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 5:04:41pm

re: #124 Spare O'Lake

He was against it before he was in favour of it.

Bush was against nation building before he was against it. Things change. People's beliefs evolve. I, for one, used to be an AGW denier. Now, I'm not. That make me a flip-flopper?

:)

269 eastsider  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 5:05:04pm

Obama walks on water, Boehner mocks his inability to swim?

270 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 5:28:25pm

re: #268 Varek Raith

Bush was against nation building before he was against for it. Things change. People's beliefs evolve. I, for one, used to be an AGW denier. Now, I'm not. That make me a flip-flopper?

:)

FAIL, VAREK, FAIL
Preview hates me, yeah, that's it.
XD

271 celticdragon  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 5:41:41pm

re: #43 iceweasel

Bush Official Dan Bartlett Admits Authorizing Offshore Oil Drilling Will Be Unlikely To Win Over Any GOP Votes


There isn't anything Obama can do that the GOP won't attack, and the GOP doesn't give a shit about the country--only about getting and keeping seats, and blocking every single thing Obama does. I think we can cal them the Party of No: No Ideas, No Class, No Integrity, and No Fucking Way.

I will shameless borrow that from now on.

272 celticdragon  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 5:46:44pm

re: #264 Gus 802

I remember seeing that. Let's see. Registering guns is for your own protection and also benefits law enforcement. You can also have a case where you buy a stolen gun that was used in a crime.

Unfortunately, gun registration lists in the state of New York have been used for confiscation (or remove your weapon from the state) purposes.

I am not a fan of registration for that reason. Waaaay too easy for the government to abuse.

273 celticdragon  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 5:48:10pm

re: #253 doubter4444

I'll bet you a six pack that he comes out inside a week and says something to the effect of "McCain has had a good idea, and I simply implemented it".
It'll be in passing, but it'll happen.
This guy may be a egoist, but he wants to get his way, too.
If it doesn't hurt to sat that, he will.

Anybody who runs for President is an egoist kinda by definition.

274 captdiggs  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 6:45:54pm

re: #43 iceweasel

thinkprogress.org...]>


...the GOP .... I think we can cal them the Party of No: No Ideas, No Class, No Integrity, and No Fucking Way.


Interesting...considering that this entire story is about Obama merely implementing a GOP idea that Bush left in writing for him.


Feb. 10, 2009

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration on Tuesday overturned another Bush-era energy policy, setting aside a draft plan to allow drilling off the Atlantic and Pacific coasts....

MSNBC Video
275 mikhailtheplumber  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 10:31:04pm

re: #274 captdiggs

Do you have limited cognitive skills or are you being deliberately disingenuous?

The entire story is about the GOP bashing Obama for implementing something that was - here is your point - planned by the Republican Bush administration. That's why the GOP has become the Party of No: we will oppose whatever Obama says, even if it is something we both recommended and ran a presidential platform on.

276 mikhailtheplumber  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 10:33:02pm

re: #269 eastsider

Obama walks on water, Boehner mocks his inability to swim?

He'd probably criticize him for being an elitist water-walker.

277 mikhailtheplumber  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 10:35:24pm

re: #259 bratwurst

Mark Levin predicts "a huge uprising" when the Obama administration "start coming after" talk radio

That is still on the drawing boards for immediately after Obama and his goons starting coming after guns and ammo.

Is this before or after he personally orders every Christmas gift in American confiscated and burnt, and every pet killed with baseball bats?
//

278 Flavia  Wed, Mar 31, 2010 11:13:40pm

re: #21 abbyadams

He is getting a ton of heat from the left. They are very unhappy with this. I'm not crazy about it, to tell you the truth...because I think we are at a point where continuing to mine for fossil fuels is putting a band aid on a broken arm.

However, I am willing to accept more exploration if we sink more cash into alternative sources of fuel, and start weaning ourselves off of petroleum, coal, etc.

(Are we related? Sorry I could only give you one upding for reading my mind)

279 captdiggs  Thu, Apr 1, 2010 6:14:38am

re: #275 mikhailtheplumber

The point of my posting was to show that despite the boiler plate comment attempting to denigrate the GOP as having no ideas, Obama is merely implementing a GOP idea.

Next time, try reading back on the thread before trying to insult someone's "cognitive skills".

280 Brent Favre  Thu, Apr 1, 2010 7:01:20am

I'm not convinced he is serious, lets wait and see what they try to do with the cap and tax later this year which may make all this moot. I think he is playing good politics and throwing bones on strings and getting the GOP to trip over them selves sounding like the dems durring the Bush years, if he was for something they were against it as seems to be the case now with BO and the GOP.

281 Sam N  Thu, Apr 1, 2010 12:39:17pm

re: #13 iceweasel

That last paragraph is gold.


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