Dozens of US Governors Receive Notes Demanding Resignation in 3 Days

US News • Views: 3,740

The FBI has issued an intelligence note about a letter received by more than 30 US governors, telling them to resign within three days.

Washington (CNN) — A domestic extremist group has sent letters to more than 30 U.S. governors demanding they resign, the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI said in an intelligence note.

The note, dated Monday, said the letters told the governors to vacate their posts within three days.

The FBI and DHS said there do not appear to be credible or immediate threats of violence attached to the letters.

The group behind the letters has a “Restore America Plan” that calls for the removal of any governor who fails to comply, the intelligence note said.

While DHS has no information that the removal refers to a specific plan for violence, “law enforcement should be aware that this could be interpreted as a justification for violence or other criminal actions,” the note said.

Other steps in the group’s plan include “establishing bogus courts, calling of ‘de jure’ grand juries, and issuing so-called ‘legal orders’ to gain control of the state,” the note said.

Oddly enough, this group does not appear to be a branch of CODE PINK. Here’s the Google cached version of their website: Guardians of the Free Republics.

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486 comments
1 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:53:59am

It's a day chock full of crazy!

2 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:54:18am

Yep, that DHS memo, yep...

3 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:55:46am

I wonder if they're fans of Ron Paul.

/Luap Nor!

4 marsl  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:55:56am

Craziness is taking America!

5 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:55:58am

I thought it was a bunch of obsessed Warhammer40K players who got a bit out of hand and thought they should get state subsidies for keeping up with their need to buy more miniatures...

oh, wait!...

/ ;)

6 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:55:59am

This is like something out of a James Bond movie....

7 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:56:53am

I had no idea so much power was held in the collective hands of state governors.

8 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:57:11am

re: #5 oaktree

I thought it was a bunch of obsessed Warhammer40K players who got a bit out of hand and thought they should get state subsidies for keeping up with their need to buy more miniatures...

oh, wait!...

/ ;)

Hey you can play Warhammer 40K on the cheap by getting the books online, and using army men/zombies/stones/whatever/ with cardboard for terrain obsticals.

Or you can play Dawn of War 1 or 2....

9 marsl  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:57:22am

Dont worry. All yours FEMA camps are waiting this lunatics....

10 bosforus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:57:25am

I was almost worried until it I saw the word "peaceful".
Phew!
/

11 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:58:26am

re: #8 jamesfirecat

Hey you can play Warhammer 40K on the cheap by getting the books online, and using army men/zombies/stones/whatever/ with cardboard for terrain obsticals.

Or you can play Dawn of War 1 or 2...

WINO!

/// (Warhammer In Name Only) :)

12 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:58:54am

Today's trog-flogging posts are comin' in thick and fast on this blog.

Either Charles is obsessed (obsessed, I tells ya!) with making the right look like dangerous fools, or the dangerous foolishness is almost too much for one man to keep up with.

I'm bettin' on the latter.

13 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:59:02am

Governor Perdue's (Georgia) press secretary said they got the note and passed it on to the State Patrol in charge of the Governor's security detail and the GBI as a matter of caution. They did not see this particular incident as a very credible threat.

This kind of crap really disrupts government. Every once in a while someone leaves a package on the steps of the Capitol and everything gets locked down or evacuated. One Christmas someone (innocently) left a present hanging on a door handle and we got a show from the bomb squad as they took it down. I've also had more than one free afternoon of exercise when I had to walk down several flights of stairs (15+) and take a half mile hike to our offices secure gathering area.

I wonder if the idiots who do this on purpose stop to realize they are costing themselves tax dollars and risking the health and welfare of regular folks working for the state?

14 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:59:26am

Whack jobs unite! Gaah!

15 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:59:32am

Mayors too! I demand mayors step down immediately.

16 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:59:47am

re: #5 oaktree

I thought it was a bunch of obsessed Warhammer40K players who got a bit out of hand and thought they should get state subsidies for keeping up with their need to buy more miniatures...

oh, wait!...

/ ;)

Nothing wrong with that, as long as Battletech players get some money too.

////

17 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:00:15am

Good grief, reading what they're goals are... I'm confused.
Nutters.

18 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:00:28am

re: #11 oaktree

WINO!

/// (Warhammer In Name Only) :)

Well once I graduate me and my brother are gonna set up a planet strike campaign, Imperial Guard + Tau against Nids using nothing but cardboard, army men, plastic zombies and some other stuff, so we'll be playing the real game, just not spending hours of work to make the money to buy the figures or hours of work to put the things together and paint them.

For now we're just doing the campaign of DOW2 multiplayer....

19 Kragar  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:00:44am

Well, I'm certainly glad to see they consulted with high ranking members of the Armed Forces before proceeding with their plan.

20 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:01:06am

Checked the Who Is on Guardians of the Free Republics and it points to CopperCards E.A.

They have a website: coppercards.com

They also have some videos:

CopperCards Chairman’s Vision Statement THE SOLUTION !!

Ron Paul calls for Revolution?

OATH KEEPERS - Richard Mac Sheriffs & Solution to Save Our Nation!

9/11 Questions - Charlie Sheen Will Obama Answer?

How to Refuse a Police Search Why Feed the Corporation?

Chemtrails or Contrails? Here is the answer...Happy Breathing!

Jesse Ventura on 9/11 with Alex Jones 2008 Define Patriotism...

21 marsl  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:01:27am

I've passed the 400 karma mark!

I'm truly blessed!

A big thanks to all of you.

22 Kragar  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:01:41am

re: #5 oaktree

I thought it was a bunch of obsessed Warhammer40K players who got a bit out of hand and thought they should get state subsidies for keeping up with their need to buy more miniatures...

oh, wait!...

/ ;)

OK, You're just asking for it now.

23 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:01:57am

Among the states who have acknowledged receiving letters: Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Utah, Arkansas, Maine, Colorado, Rhode Island, Michigan, Georgia, Virginia, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, Minnesota, Iowa, Ohio and Nevada.

Off the top of my head, Texas, Utah, and Nevada are GOPers.

Oh, and that reference to 28 USC 3002? Here's what they're referring to:

(15) "United States" means -
(A) a Federal corporation;
(B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity
of the United States; or
(C) an instrumentality of the United States.

(16) "United States marshal" means a United States marshal, a
deputy marshal, or an official of the United States Marshals
Service designated under section 564.

Title 28 is Judiciary and Judicial Procedure, and Chapter 176 (Sections 3000 et seq) refers to federal debt collections.

24 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:01:59am

re: #12 Cato the Elder

Today's trog-flogging posts are comin' in thick and fast on this blog.

Either Charles is obsessed (obsessed, I tells ya!) with making the right look like dangerous fools, or the dangerous foolishness is almost too much for one man to keep up with.

I'm bettin' on the latter.

I think the right is obsessed with making the right look like dangerous fools.

25 Kragar  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:02:22am

re: #18 jamesfirecat

Well once I graduate me and my brother are gonna set up a planet strike campaign, Imperial Guard + Tau against Nids using nothing but cardboard, army men, plastic zombies and some other stuff, so we'll be playing the real game, just not spending hours of work to make the money to buy the figures or hours of work to put the things together and paint them.

For now we're just doing the campaign of DOW2 multiplayer...

YOU ARE DEAD TO ME. DEAD!!!

26 bratwurst  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:02:30am

re: #21 marsl

I've passed the 400 karma mark!

I'm truly blessed!

A big thanks to all of you.

Have another for a win over Liverpool!

27 Spider Mensch  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:02:39am

they left off the P.S. on the note...... "you resign, you poopy head govenor..or, or, we'll Toilet paper the tree in front of your house..an, an...soap your car windows..an, an...leave a flaming bag of doggy doo on your front step and ring your bell and run away! so you better listen to us...."

28 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:02:54am

re: #20 Gus 802

Ah, a troofer/conspiracy link. Fantastic.

29 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:03:18am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

YOU ARE DEAD TO ME. DEAD!!!

For playing DOW2 or for faking up the stuff rather than dishing out the cash and painting the minatures?

30 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:03:55am

re: #21 marsl

I've passed the 400 karma mark!

I'm truly blessed!

A big thanks to all of you.


You are either well read and thoughtful or you suck up real well. Time will tell. /

31 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:04:23am

re: #28 lawhawk

Ah, a troofer/conspiracy link. Fantastic.

E, I, E, I, O!

Yep. Still browsing but I can smell the sticky bud from here.

32 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:05:30am

re: #23 lawhawk

Virginia, South Carolina

33 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:05:30am

Weyland-Yutani controls the US Government.
Neat.

34 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:05:54am

re: #12 Cato the Elder

Today's trog-flogging posts are comin' in thick and fast on this blog.

Either Charles is obsessed (obsessed, I tells ya!) with making the right look like dangerous fools, or the dangerous foolishness is almost too much for one man to keep up with.

I'm bettin' on the latter.

No shit, Cato. Teh crazy, is well, crazy.

35 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:06:18am

Georgia is GOP (Governor and Legislature) but I don't know why an anti-big government nutter would bother with us...

Georgia 2008 Tax Comparison to other states (source US census data):
Population Rank #10
Tax Revenue per person #43
Tax Expenditure per person #46
Debt per person #49
Tax Burden per person # 42
Personal Income per person # 34
Government Employees per citizen # 43
Government Payroll per citizen # 46

36 sffilk  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:06:21am

To put it mildly, this stinks to high heaven! The website looks like someone is trying to foment a takeover of the government and put in his perverted version of what government should be instead.

37 Kragar  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:06:25am

re: #29 jamesfirecat

For playing DOW2 or for faking up the stuff rather than dishing out the cash and painting the minatures?

Half the fun is having a cool looking army.

I'm talking to a dead man.

38 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:06:27am

re: #22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hmm... I just realized that I've effectively trolled the thread. I'm not a WH40K (or DoW) player so the further back-and-forth that I might be triggering is really of no interest beyond having triggered it.

I don't know whether to be ashamed or proud. o_O

39 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:06:28am

re: #33 Varek Raith

It's only awesome if we get Space Marines with that and this isn't just another bug hunt, in which case, we better nuke it from orbit - just to be sure.

40 marsl  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:06:52am

re: #30 DaddyG

You are either well read and thoughtful or you suck up real well. Time will tell. /

First option. I don't suck.

41 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:07:29am

re: #40 marsl

First option. I don't suck.

Well there you go then! Congratulations. ;-)

42 marsl  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:07:54am

re: #41 DaddyG

Lol

43 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:08:02am
44 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:08:34am

re: #31 Gus 802

E, I, E, I, O!

Yep. Still browsing but I can smell the sticky bud from here.

Anybody who uses Charlie Sheen as a source of credibility is ok by me! (Tropic Thunder Translation: Cover me, limp dick fuck-ups! )

45 Slap  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:08:36am

The Oath Keepers are listed in the linky. How nice. (Anybody else ever wonder about the similarities between oathkeeper and promisekeeper?) Buncha freakin nutz.

Yeesh!

46 jaunte  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:08:43am

re: #36 sffilk

To put it mildly, this stinks to high heaven! The website looks like someone is trying to foment a takeover of the government and put in his perverted version of what government should be instead.

Near as I can tell reading the convoluted language, in their ideal world, everything's gonna be free.

47 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:09:40am

No street addresses or email addresses, please...

48 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:09:41am

re: #35 DaddyG

Georgia is GOP (Governor and Legislature) but I don't know why an anti-big government nutter would bother with us...

Georgia 2008 Tax Comparison to other states (source US census data):
Population Rank #10
Tax Revenue per person #43
Tax Expenditure per person #46
Debt per person #49
Tax Burden per person # 42
Personal Income per person # 34
Government Employees per citizen # 43
Government Payroll per citizen # 46

Hey, Daddy G, where did you get that info? I'd love to see Texas' numbers!

49 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:09:46am

re: #35 DaddyG

Georgia is GOP (Governor and Legislature) but I don't know why an anti-big government nutter would bother with us...

I read an article earlier stating that the FBI expects all 50 governors to get a letter.

50 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:09:51am

Google cached links are your friend.
:)

51 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:10:03am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Half the fun is having a cool looking army.

I'm talking to a dead man.

If I wanted to see the cool figures doing cool stuff I'd play more DOW2, Warhammer 40K is to be plaid for the fun of min maxining your army, and praying to whatever deity applies that the dice won't f*** you over....

52 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:11:12am

re: #49 Conservative Moonbat

These morons probably couldn't coordinate the delivery of all 50 at once.

It's a good thing that incompetence and insanity go together so often.

53 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:11:16am

Sounds like just the old Posse Comitatus types. Grew out of a group of WWII era Nazi sympathizers & is usually a localist/"sovereign citizen" kind of hatriot. We've had a bunch of these maroons here in Wisconsin over the years.

They need a spanking more than anything.

William

54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:11:52am

re: #47 Charles

Please keep your hands and feet inside the cars...

55 Kragar  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:12:18am

re: #51 jamesfirecat

If I wanted to see the cool figures doing cool stuff I'd play more DOW2, Warhammer 40K is to be plaid for the fun of min maxining your army, and praying to whatever deity applies that the dice won't f*** you over...

Dang proxy models

But how exactly are you going to field a Cadian Kasrkin Brigade in DOW2?

56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:12:42am

re: #48 austin_blue

Hey, Daddy G, where did you get that info? I'd love to see Texas' numbers!

You sure. If Texas ain't number one in everythang, y'all tend to get pissed.

57 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:13:12am

re: #52 Obdicut

These morons probably couldn't coordinate the delivery of all 50 at once.

It's a good thing that incompetence and insanity go together so often.

Since there's so much 40K talk going on....


SANITY IS FOR THE WEAK!

58 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:13:48am

Found a video.

CopperCards.com

Put on your toxic gear. He mentions the Rothschilds. His name is Clive Boustred.

59 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:13:59am

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dang proxy models

But how exactly are you going to field a Cadian Kasrkin Brigade in DOW2?

Wait for the Imperial Guard expansion pack to come out....

60 Kragar  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:14:53am

re: #59 jamesfirecat

Wait for the Imperial Guard expansion pack to come out...

/throws up hands in disgust

61 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:14:57am

BBL, all this craziness is making mai haid hertz!

62 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:15:09am

Reposted for laffs:

There was a lot of fauxtrage yesterday from the family-values types (including Sarah Pile-On) about the Young Eagles and their outing in L.A.

For the record, I would like to state that I have never been to a strip club. But I have been invited dozens of times, and to my best recollection every invitation has come from some guy who would define himself as a conservative, if not a social one. Young, upwardly mobile, married-with-kids family guys, to be specific. I can't recall ever having one of my Prog friends say, "Dude, let's finish this doobie and then hit the titty bars!"

Maybe it's because most Progs hang out in mixed-gender groups instead of little "woot-woot" boys-only sports cliques, are comfortable with their sexuality, know what real live grrrls look and feel like, and don't think they have to pay for the experience.

Or am I just imagining things again?

Young Eagles T-shirt: "I went to an expensive titty bar, and all I got was a big wet load in my undies!"

63 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:15:17am

re: #60 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

/throws up hands in disgust

That or go back and play Dark Crusade....

64 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:15:27am

re: #58 Gus 802

Obligatory antisemitism, of course.

What's up with his moronic accent? He sounds like the Highlander guy from the TV series, but dumber.

65 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:16:48am

re: #56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You sure. If Texas ain't number one in everythang, y'all tend to get pissed.

Nah, I live in the People's Republic of Travis County......

66 Cathypop  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:18:05am

re: #65 austin_blue

Nah, I live in the People's Republic of Travis County...


What the heck is that?

67 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:18:17am

re: #58 Gus 802

Even the Freepers are calling this stuff crazy, or a Democratic plant.


I am also wondering who launched this site/group... OFA? AFL-CIO? ACORN? SEIU??
68 SpaceJesus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:18:38am

i'd love to see these conservative morons try that shit on Arnold, and get blown to shit Terminator style.

69 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:18:38am

re: #58 Gus 802

Heh.

As one of the industries foremost technology & business strategists, Mr. Boustred has provided strategy and the architectural vision for some of the world's most successful companies. Mr. Boustred has designed massively scalar systems that have grown to support well over ten million users. The next generation Internet and banking systems Mr. Boustred designed to support billions of users was interrupted by a governmental assault during deployment, which resulted in him analyzing the legal industry and the development of Liberty For Life & CopperCards.

Uh, yeah.

70 subsailor68  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:19:41am

Hmm...from the info (deleted because it had address/e-mail info in it) I noticed that the site was registered one day, and the last update was the next day - over two months ago.

This, I thought, was interesting so I contacted my friend at the NSA and asked him if he had any top-secret satellite audio recordings from that date and that area of the country. He - at great personal risk - sent me the transcript of a conversation between the primary suspect and a second, unidentified individual. Here's part:

Unidentified Party: Sherman!
Unidentified Party: Sherman!
Unidentified Party: Sherman, answer me right now. I know you're down there!
Unidentified Party: Sherman, dinner's been on the table for fifteen minutes now and you better get your butt upstairs on the double buster!

Primary Suspect: Ah mom, just a few more minutes. I'm updating my manifesto.

Unidentified Party: Manifesto, schmanifesto, you get up here right now.

Primary Suspect: I hate you, I hate you, I hate you!

(pause)

Primary Suspect: It's not meatloaf again, is it? Mom?

71 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:19:49am

Hi all! I hope you are having a glorious day!

I'm really bummed that I missed the submarine geeking out on the earlier thread. If hoops, ping and sub are around... I salute you!

72 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:19:52am

re: #66 Cathypop

What the heck is that?

The PRTC? It's what much of the rest of Texas calls Austin.

73 Jeff In Ohio  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:20:19am

re: #62 Cato the Elder

Or am I just imagining things again?

Your imagining things. While I'm familiar with the frat boy strip club denizen, the guys I used to go on the road with spent every waking hour we weren't in a club or in the van (r getting fucked up somewhere strange) in a strip joint. I wouldn't call them liberals, apolitical, maybe, but social conservatives they most definitely were not.

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:21:02am

Well, so much for state's rights. At least for state's rights to elect a governor of their choosing.

75 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:21:16am

OK, this gets even stranger.

Video:

CLIVE of CopperCards denied Justice Again

Also found this:

Mar 12, 2010 ... The parties to this action are Cody Melton, Mike Richard Kelly, and Jesse A. Maldonado (collectively, plaintiffs), and Clive Boustred ...

CODY MELTON, et al.,
Plaintiffs and Appellants,
v.
CLIVE BOUSTRED,
Defendant and Respondent.

FACTUAL AND PROCEDURAL BACKGROUND

The parties to this action are Cody Melton, Mike Richard Kelly, and Jesse A. Maldonado (collectively, plaintiffs), and Clive Boustred (defendant).

On May 5, 2007, defendant held a party at his residence featuring live music and alcoholic beverages. Defendant advertised the party using an open invitation on the social networking site, MySpace.com. Upon arriving at the party, plaintiffs were attacked, beaten, and stabbed by a group of unknown individuals. They sustained serious injuries.

76 Cathypop  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:21:45am

re: #72 austin_blue

The PRTC? It's what much of the rest of Texas calls Austin.


You can keep the weird Austin but please the rest of Travis County out of it.
Thanks

77 justaminute  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:21:57am

My husband is planning on going home to Iran and visit his family. He feels that it is pretty safe to go while the US is kinda of having a nervous breakdown.

And with the added bonus of embargo's everyone wants to buy dollars.

78 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:22:04am

re: #71 ludwigvanquixote
Muchos grassy ass! How is LVQ today. Here in eastern WA, we are having a spring snow storm. Was 65 and sunny yesterday. Today, over 1 inch of snow and cold.:) Ain't spring great!?

79 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:23:59am

Now back to the subject at hand.

The best commentary for the current state of affairs is Yeats.

From the Second Coming:

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:24:54am

re: #23 lawhawk

Among the states who have acknowledged receiving letters: Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Utah, Arkansas, Maine, Colorado, Rhode Island, Michigan, Georgia, Virginia, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, Minnesota, Iowa, Ohio and Nevada.

Off the top of my head, Texas, Utah, and Nevada are GOPers.

Oh, and that reference to 28 USC 3002? Here's what they're referring to:

Title 28 is Judiciary and Judicial Procedure, and Chapter 176 (Sections 3000 et seq) refers to federal debt collections.

I'm pissed now. Ahnold is not a big enough RINO to get a letter? Fie upon them.

81 Cathypop  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:25:47am

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm pissed now. Ahnold is not a big enough RINO to get a letter? Fie upon them.


Ahnold is "special"

82 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:26:18am

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist
IIRC, the Feds expect all governors to get them. The guv of WA state isn't on that list either.

83 jaunte  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:26:22am

re: #58 Gus 802

That was some prime wacky. A "lost" 13th amendment disqualifies all attorneys from citizenship, therefore our entire legal structure, precedent, and most of the government is illegitimate, and we have to have a do-over.

84 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:26:28am

More documents:

"Clive Frank Boustred"

85 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:26:33am

re: #81 Cathypop

Ahnold is "special"

Or maybe he just doesn't read his mail.

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:26:40am

I didn't realize there was a 'divine right of travel'. I feel empowered by God to go to the grocery store now.

87 EastSider  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:26:46am

re: #81 Cathypop

Ahnold is "special"

Arnold can take care of himself.

88 Cathypop  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:27:34am

re: #85 Conservative Moonbat

Or maybe he just doesn't read his mail.


Opps! He forgot to check his mail box

89 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:27:40am

re: #83 jaunte

That was some prime wacky. A "lost" 13th amendment disqualifies all attorneys from citizenship, therefore our entire legal structure, precedent, and most of the government is illegitimate, and we have to have a do-over.

Yeah. That would be something in real life. Government being replaced by a bunch of psychopaths.

Weeeeee!

90 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:29:00am

re: #48 austin_blue

Hey, Daddy G, where did you get that info? I'd love to see Texas' numbers!

US Census bureau tables. I put together my own spreadsheet because I'm tired of hearing my neighbors complain about the cost of Government in Georgia. Here are the number for Texas-

Population Rank #2
Tax Revenue per person #31
Tax Expenditure per person #49
Debt per person #8
Tax Burden per person #50
Personal Income per person #27
Government Employees per citizen #45
Government Payroll per citizen #47

To be fair the rest of us can't suck oil out of the ground ;-)

91 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:29:47am

re: #79 ludwigvanquixote

Now back to the subject at hand.

The best commentary for the current state of affairs is Yeats.

From the Second Coming:

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

I dunno Ludwig. You're to be numbered among the best, and you've got passionate intensity in spades.

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:29:51am

re: #77 justaminute

My husband is planning on going home to Iran and visit his family. He feels that it is pretty safe to go while the US is kinda of having a nervous breakdown.

And with the added bonus of embargo's everyone wants to buy dollars.

Tell him to take care, and enjoy seeing family.

93 jaunte  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:30:13am

re: #89 Gus 802

His argument about "a law isn't a law unless the people can understand it" might have a few unforeseen circumstances, too.

No comprende!

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:30:33am

re: #81 Cathypop

Ahnold is "special"

The Governator is definitely special.

I have a feeling I'm going to miss him.

Which will be a surprise.

95 pingjockey  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:31:06am

Gonna go get some lunch. BBIAB.

96 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:31:36am

OK, I just noticed that CNN still doesn't have a name.

I'm sitting here rubbing my face and haven't had any coffee and already have a name on this group and lots of weird chit.

If CNN is reading this you can hire me -- 125K to start.

97 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:32:25am

re: #88 Cathypop

Opps! He forgot to check his mail box


To be fair it is chok full of bills.

98 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:32:49am

re: #96 Gus 802

Seriously, you and Killgore should both get hired. Your research is superior to the MSMs.

99 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:33:18am

re: #93 jaunte

His argument about "a law isn't a law unless the people can understand it" might have a few unforeseen circumstances, too.

No comprende!

He's off his rocker. Looks like he pulls these stunts frequently in the Santa Cruz area. Including one where he's the plaintiff and the defendants include the wording "New World Order."

100 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:33:47am

re: #96 Gus 802

OK, I just noticed that CNN still doesn't have a name.

I'm sitting here rubbing my face and haven't had any coffee and already have a name on this group and lots of weird chit.

If CNN is reading this you can hire me -- 125K to start.


I'll go for 124,999 (Price is right douche underbid) and you can keep the relocation expenses. I can see your office from my window.

101 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:35:14am

re: #99 Gus 802

He's off his rocker. Looks like he pulls these stunts frequently in the Santa Cruz area. Including one where he's the plaintiff and the defendants include the wording "New World Order."


There is a high correlation between guys who lose civil suits in nuisance cases and guys who are victims of the "New World Order". I wonder why that is? /

102 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:36:25am

re: #101 DaddyG

There is a high correlation between guys who lose civil suits in nuisance cases and guys who are victims of the "New World Order". I wonder why that is? /

Because the losers can't bring themselves to face reality, so they make up conspiracy theories to explain their over-large quantities of FAIL.

103 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:36:47am

Why is it these creepy American extremist guys always have such shitty graphic design?

No more crappy bevel filters on fonts PLEASE NO MORE

104 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:37:00am

re: #78 pingjockey

Muchos grassy ass! How is LVQ today. Here in eastern WA, we are having a spring snow storm. Was 65 and sunny yesterday. Today, over 1 inch of snow and cold.:) Ain't spring great!?

I'm fantastic thanks. Perfect spring day here. Procrastinating (a little) from writing a journal paper. Iced coffee in hand, puppy on lap.

I also just got a call from my GF. I can say for certain it is now serious. She is visiting family for a few days and went out shopping. Our conversation went something like:

GF: Hi honey! So what is your neck size again?

Me: ummm I wear an 18 , 34-35 athletic cut, why?

GF: Well I'm at the mall and there is a really nice sale on shirts. I found somethings you would like!

Me: Laughing, you mean you are making a pre-emptive strike against my Hawaiian shirts!

GF: That is exactly what I am doing.

Me: But Darling, in purple, I am stunning! note, she still hasn't gotten the reference. Also, if you see any with respectable anime on them, that would be cool too!

GF: No dear, I am in a store for people with style. I actually found a purple shirt that I can live with on you as a compromise.... Ohhh look, there in the corner.... Hawaiian shirts, hidden away because no one wants them.

Me: Honey, if no one wanted them, they would not be on sale.

GF: That will not deter my pree-emptive strike!

So gentlemen, there you have it. She has decided to groom me.

105 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:37:38am

Have they brought this guy in for questioning yet?

106 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:37:43am

re: #101 DaddyG

There is a high correlation between guys who lose civil suits in nuisance cases and guys who are victims of the "New World Order". I wonder why that is? /

Not sure but it might be something like the Spicoli Syndrome.

/

107 jaunte  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:37:55am

re: #103 WindUpBird

(Don't warn them, we will know them by their bevels).

108 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:37:55am

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

I dunno Ludwig. You're to be numbered among the best, and you've got passionate intensity in spades.

Thank you for the kindness.

109 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:39:41am

re: #104 ludwigvanquixote Give it a few more years. After just under 22 years of marriage I am now completely incapable of picking my own clothes out of the closet in the morning.

110 Kragar  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:40:11am

re: #96 Gus 802

re: #100 DaddyG

WRONG WRONG WRONG!

You 2 are the perfect examples of everything wrong with capitalist America today. You guys are expressing the outrage of the people. You aren't in touch with the nation's pulse!

/holds back a sob

Don't you see that we need to come together around a common idea? You can read all about it in my new book, available at the low price of 19.99. Now please support our sponsors and buy gold.

(CNN, Call me, we can work out the deal over the dinner you'll buy me.)

111 Jaerik  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:41:06am

They keep using that "de jure" word. I do not think it means what they think it means.

112 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:41:21am

re: #101 DaddyG

There is a high correlation between guys who lose civil suits in nuisance cases and guys who are victims of the "New World Order". I wonder why that is? /

How do you get service of process on the New World Order? Who do you have the sheriff serve?

113 Bagua  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:41:23am

Bagua's Topical Music Break&trade:

Rebel Music


Take my soul
And suss - and suss me out (suss me out). oh-ooh!
Check my life,
If i am in doubt (i'm in doubt); i'm tellin':
3 o'clock roadblock - roadblock - roadblock,

And "hey, mr. cop! ain't got no - (hey) hey! (hey, mr cop) -
(what ya sayin' down there?) - (hey) hey! (hey, mr cop) -
Ain't got no birth certificate on me now."


- Bob
114 Kragar  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:41:56am

re: #103 WindUpBird

Why is it these creepy American extremist guys always have such shitty graphic design?

No more crappy bevel filters on fonts PLEASE NO MORE

Needs more lime green back ground with hot pink font, a fire gif pasted down both sides of the screen and a MIDI file of America the Beautiful to play automatically when you load the page.

115 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:42:11am

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #100 DaddyG

WRONG WRONG WRONG!

You 2 are the perfect examples of everything wrong with capitalist America today. You guys are expressing the outrage of the people. You aren't in touch with the nation's pulse!

/holds back a sob

Don't you see that we need to come together around a common idea? You can read all about it in my new book, available at the low price of 19.99. Now please support our sponsors and buy gold.

(CNN, Call me, we can work out the deal over the dinner you'll buy me.)

Yeah. I'll do it for free for a dinner at Applebee's and a night's stay in Cherry Hills, New Jersey. Plus free tickets to the Springer show.

//

116 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:42:17am

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
If that represents the nation's pulse we need to add free ACE inhibitor drugs to the new health plan. /

117 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:42:44am

re: #73 Jeff In Ohio

Your imagining things. While I'm familiar with the frat boy strip club denizen, the guys I used to go on the road with spent every waking hour we weren't in a club or in the van (r getting fucked up somewhere strange) in a strip joint. I wouldn't call them liberals, apolitical, maybe, but social conservatives they most definitely were not.

Well, everyone's experience is different.

Mine has been getting invited to go watch grrrls whom you can't touch hovering their titties three inches from your face, by guys whose day job is to write screeds about the moral decline of America.

I never saw the point (though I'm sure I would have seen lots of pointies had I accepted the invites).

Once in Athens (Greece, not Georgia), I wandered into a bar late at night for an ouzo. Drink in hand, I sat at the bar, when a tartishly done-up grrrl came up and asked me in East European English whether I'd care to buy her a drink.

I had read about that kind of thing in books, and now here I was, about to get laid for money (or, more likely, made drunk and hustled into a back room to get rolled).

I politely declined. I was a the archetypal starving student, after all.

Immediately got surrounded by three tough-looking Greeks who berated me for being "rude" to the young lady, whilst the bartender stared me down from across the counter and did his best imitation of Bruno Tattaglia getting ready to go all Luca Brasi on my ass and stick a switchblade through my hand.

Somehow I managed to back out the door unscathed. I'm surprised they didn't roll me just on principle.

And since then I have avoided what are euphemistically (and very inaccurately) called "gentlemen's" clubs like the plague.

(Real gentlemen order in, by the way, they don't go for takeout.)

118 subsailor68  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:43:13am

re: #111 Jaerik

They keep using that "de jure" word. I do not think it means what they think it means.

The last time I heard "de jure" was at a Mafia trial in Brooklyn. The guy came out of the courtroom and said, "De jure was only out for ten minutes before dey came back tru de door and sent Carmine up de river."

119 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:43:22am

re: #114 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Embedded music is the work of the Bilderbergers.

120 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:43:27am

re: #112 garhighway

How do you get service of process on the New World Order? Who do you have the sheriff serve?


Lackey grade II- unfortunately, now I will have to send out the night crew to wipe your memory with that alien technology we found in New Mexico.

121 Kragar  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:45:04am

re: #119 Obdicut

Embedded music is the work of the Bilderbergers.

Any time a site plays a video or sound I didn't specifically ask it to do, its obvious an Illuminati plot.

122 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:46:01am

re: #118 subsailor68

The last time I heard "de jure" was at a Mafia trial in Brooklyn. The guy came out of the courtroom and said, "De jure was only out for ten minutes before dey came back tru de door and sent Carmine up de river."

"Is it possible that the two youts..."

123 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:47:55am

Here's his home made looking "work" website.

InfoTelesys

InfoTelesys has been placed on hold since March 10, 2003 following an assault by the government and the false malicious prosecution of InfoTelesys' founder. InfoTelesys sued the government and won the case, however, the Courts are refusing to follow their own law. InfoTelesys will resume operations as soon as we are able to recover the damages.

Chief, kook, and bong washer.

124 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:48:04am

I usually order the soup de jure if it is on special.

125 subsailor68  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:49:00am

re: #122 cliffster

"Is it possible that the two youts..."

LOL! "What's a yout?"

(I loved Fred Gwynne! Funny, funny guy - but could do serious pretty well too - like in "The Cotton Club")

126 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:49:53am

re: #90 DaddyG

US Census bureau tables. I put together my own spreadsheet because I'm tired of hearing my neighbors complain about the cost of Government in Georgia. Here are the number for Texas-

Population Rank #2
Tax Revenue per person #31
Tax Expenditure per person #49
Debt per person #8
Tax Burden per person #50
Personal Income per person #27
Government Employees per citizen #45
Government Payroll per citizen #47

To be fair the rest of us can't suck oil out of the ground ;-)

Thanks! Much appreciated!

127 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:50:01am

re: #124 DaddyG

I usually order the soup de jure if it is on special.

Yeah, I do too, but then the waiter comes back and tells you it's sub judice.

128 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:50:10am

re: #118 subsailor68

The last time I heard "de jure" was at a Mafia trial in Brooklyn. The guy came out of the courtroom and said, "De jure was only out for ten minutes before dey came back tru de door and sent Carmine up de river."

[smiles]

129 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:50:40am

re: #120 DaddyG

Lackey grade II- unfortunately, now I will have to send out the night crew to wipe your memory with that alien technology we found in New Mexico.

So I've got THAT to look forward to.

130 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:50:56am

BRB, need cigs and something stronger than tea.

131 Bagua  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:51:16am

re: #121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Any time a site plays a video or sound I didn't specifically ask it to do, its obvious an Illuminati plot.

Those sites are listed as Of The Devil™ on Bagua's sekrit boycott list.

Today it was detected that the evil DHL has such a site. (I will not link)

The supplier has been emailed and stricken from the permissible list.

132 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:53:06am

re: #104 ludwigvanquixote

So gentlemen, there you have it. She has decided to groom me.

Aw, y'all are so cute!

Image: Rhesusx2.jpg

133 Ben G. Hazi  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:53:10am

Man, people like these nuts demanding these resignations are just 10 pounds of krayzee in a 5-pound bag.

/As Bugs Bunny would say, "Yeeeesh!"

134 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:53:15am

You know the pervasiveness of this wingnuttery almost makes me want to create a new hit viral website "Look at this F-ing Wingnut"... ala "Look at this F-ing Hipster"

135 Bagua  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:53:22am

re: #113 Bagua

Good grief, an Html typo.

136 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:53:44am

re: #130 Gus 802

BRB, need cigs and something stronger than tea.

Is that what the kids are calling it these days?

137 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:54:10am

re: #105 Mad Al-Jaffee

Have they brought this guy in for questioning yet?

They tried, but since none of them were either James Bond, or Homer Simpson, he killed them all and hid the bodies.

138 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:55:33am

re: #134 Thanos

You know the pervasiveness of this wingnuttery almost makes me want to create a new hit viral website "Look at this F-ing Wingnut"... ala "Look at this F-ing Hipster"

How about you change the name of the site to "Look at this F---ing Douchebag" and include pictures from both the left and the right? That should cover all the bases.

139 Spider Mensch  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:56:20am

re: #125 subsailor68

LOL! "What's a yout?"

(I loved Fred Gwynne! Funny, funny guy - but could do serious pretty well too - like in "The Cotton Club")


little known Fred Gwynne trivia...played small role in "On the Waterfront". played one of the union goons.

140 subsailor68  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:57:30am

I posted this on an earlier thread, but don't know how many folks got to see that post, so with permission I'd like to link this again.

Ludwig, with the way your mind works, I can almost bet this'll blow your mind completely. IMHO it's close to creative genius (and it's not too long, but you need to let it run):

The Future of Publishing

141 Bagua  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:59:03am

re: #117 Cato the Elder

I politely declined.

Bloody hell Cato, you're such a social conservative. You are meant to have fun in that place. Just say yes until your cash runs out and stagger back to the hotel room. I loved that joint myself. What did you do for 2,000 years?

142 cgn38navy  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:01:30pm

re: #52 Obdicut

Actually, those thirty states just have the best postal service operations. I wonder which state will get it last?

143 allegro  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:01:35pm

re: #140 subsailor68

The Future of Publishing

So very cool! Brilliant!

144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:01:37pm

re: #139 Spider Mensch

little known Fred Gwynne trivia...played small role in "On the Waterfront". played one of the union goons.

I saw him in the background... immediately went all imdb to make sure it was him.

145 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:01:39pm

re: #141 Bagua

Bloody hell Cato, you're such a social conservative. You are meant to have fun in that place. Just say yes until your cash runs out and stagger back to the hotel room. I loved that joint myself. What did you do for 2,000 years?

Saying "yes" in that case could get you dead. He did the right thing in getting out of there.

146 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:02:28pm

re: #141 Bagua

Bloody hell Cato, you're such a social conservative. You are meant to have fun in that place. Just say yes until your cash runs out and stagger back to the hotel room. I loved that joint myself. What did you do for 2,000 years?

Umm...maybe it was the hint of palpable greed and danger in the air, plus the fact that I had bought that ouzo with what remained of my lunch money - what can I say?

Always go with your gut.

147 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:02:49pm

Koskidz did some digging in the militias webpages: "McVeigh wannabes" promote Tea Parties, Glenn Beck on their website. Tell me about that Snark again?


The group, "Guardians of the Free Republics," wants to "restore America" by dismantling parts of the government, according to its web site.
snip

The website also promotes tea party protests, calls for revolution, videos from Glenn Beck, and sympathetic articles about recent right-wing domestic terrorist activities, like the suicide attack on an IRS building in Austin earlier this year.

148 Soap_Man  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:03:41pm

From the story:

The governor hadn't seen the letters because he had been in Las Vegas for a few days, Reedy said.

On phone: "A veiled threat of violence? I don't have time for that shit! This craps table is hot baby!"

149 Bagua  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:05:33pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Saying "yes" in that case could get you dead. He did the right thing in getting out of there.

Bull, next time go with me, it's a different experience.

What do you think, that they go to all the trouble of renting a place and stocking it with liquor and girls just to get noticed by the murder squad from the Athens police? (Who by the way are not to be fucked with)

You spends your money and has your fun, the only nag is the girls calling at your hotel begging you to come back again.

150 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:06:26pm

re: #148 Soap_Man

From the story:

On phone: "A veiled threat of violence? I don't have time for that shit! This craps table is hot baby!"

William Bennett is your Governor?

151 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:06:55pm

re: #148 Soap_Man

From the story:

On phone: "A veiled threat of violence? I don't have time for that shit! This craps table is hot baby!"

And three weeks later, he finds himself waking up from an alcoholic blackout in a seedy bordello, a dead girl in the bed, and a guy in a three-piece suit offering to be his friend if he'll just sign a little note saying he'll never talk bad about the militias again.

152 Bagua  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:09:20pm

re: #146 Cato the Elder

Umm...maybe it was the hint of palpable greed and danger in the air, plus the fact that I had bought that ouzo with what remained of my lunch money - what can I say?

Always go with your gut.

With your nimble tongue surely you could have turned that encounter into a part time job bringing them customers, and all the while getting freebies.

Fear and greed doesn't smell bad Cato, it smells like money.

153 subsailor68  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:09:26pm

Well all, duty calls. It's just about the right time to put down my annual load of what I call my organic fertilizer - and what my wife calls my typical bullsh-t. Have a great weekend.

154 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:09:39pm

re: #151 Cato the Elder

And three weeks later, he finds himself waking up from an alcoholic blackout in a seedy bordello, a dead girl in the bed, and a guy in a three-piece suit offering to be his friend if he'll just sign a little note saying he'll never talk bad about the militias again.

Or does he wake up in a tub full of ice, with "I have your kidneys" written in lipstick on the mirror?

155 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:10:15pm

re: #132 austin_blue

So gentlemen, there you have it. She has decided to groom me.


Aw, y'all are so cute!

Click to display image: Rhesusx2.jpg

Actually, that is about right.

A woman who has decided she is going to exhibit that sort of nesting behavior is declaring attachment. It's actually kind of sweet.

If I may ruminate on romance and relationships a little...

A wise man gives his woman something she can "fix." She then feels like she has accomplished something.

I will tell a story, that if it ever gets attached to my real name will cause the Sisterhood to Destroy all Evil Men to hunt and kill the subject of the story.

Some background. My little brother is, and has always been, anal retentive. I am not certain how he got so anal. We were all raised by the same parents and none of us were toilet trained at gun point, but somehow he came out that way. As a boy, of ten, he would iron, fold and color code his socks when he neatly ordered them in his drawer. He was the kid who liked to clean his room.

He married a truly amazing woman who is only slightly less anal.

Now here is one of the greatest gambits in male history.

Shortly after he was married, he took to tossing a socks (not always, but now and again) around the house when he got back from being on call at the hospital.

His wife, at first, tried not to notice. She made excuses that after all, he was working grueling shifts on call as a resident. But this was making her insane.

She confronted him about it.

My little brother, apologized profusely, talked about how hard the shifts were and promised to change. Over time, he cut off the offending sock habit, with the occasional "relapse."

His wife was thrilled with him for being so considerate and making such an effort.

When he told me this story, I laughed a lot. Remember this is someone who as a boy ironed and ordered his socks. I marveled at the balls of his game.

He said, well, if you give them something they can fix, they get the satisfaction of fixing you and think you are super considerate. More importantly, it distracts them from trying to fix other things you like!

156 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:10:32pm

re: #154 cliffster

"Candy Mountain, Charlie!"

157 Ericus58  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:10:33pm

Feds: Homes with Chinese drywall must be gutted

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

"NEW ORLEANS – Thousands of U.S. homes tainted by Chinese drywall should be completely gutted, according to new guidelines released Friday by the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

The guidelines say electrical wiring, outlets, circuit breakers, fire alarm systems, carbon monoxide alarms, fire sprinklers, gas pipes and drywall need to be removed."

158 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:11:18pm

re: #117 Cato the Elder

Mine has been getting invited to go watch grrrls whom you can't touch hovering their titties three inches from your face, by guys whose day job is to write screeds about the moral decline of America.

Right.

A guy who has never stepped foot into a titty bar harps on about the political make-up of the patrons of titty bars. Next you'll lecture LVQ on physics?

159 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:12:25pm

re: #157 Ericus58

Those silly Chinese...

Americans prefer the "Non-Toxic Drywall". They didn't know that. I'm sure they thought it was fine.

160 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:12:33pm

re: #156 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Candy Mountain, Charlie!"

I'm going to watch that right now

161 Dookiestain LaFlair  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:12:40pm

You mean they didn't challenge a governor to a one on one sword fight in a parking garage below Madison Square Garden?

162 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:14:22pm

re: #157 Ericus58

Feds: Homes with Chinese drywall must be gutted

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

"NEW ORLEANS – Thousands of U.S. homes tainted by Chinese drywall should be completely gutted, according to new guidelines released Friday by the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

The guidelines say electrical wiring, outlets, circuit breakers, fire alarm systems, carbon monoxide alarms, fire sprinklers, gas pipes and drywall need to be removed."

We need to institute a through-going inspection regime with all Chinese products. The Government will need to do the inspecting in this case. I can see no other way to prevent problems like this. The increased prices for those goods would have to be accepted.

163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:14:23pm

re: #157 Ericus58

What if we tell the Chinese we'll call it even. We won't sue them; they forgive our debt.

I think I'll become a congress-critter.

I have the art of diplomacy down pat!

164 Bagua  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:14:55pm

re: #154 cliffster

Or does he wake up in a tub full of ice, with "I have your kidneys" written in lipstick on the mirror?

Man, that is so wrong. TV stuff. Next time you're in Vegas give a call and I'll email you some phone numbers. Trust me, no one loses a kidney. It's all good.

165 bosforus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:15:17pm

re: #161 Dookiestain LaFlair

You mean they didn't challenge a governor to a one on one sword fight in a parking garage below Madison Square Garden?

Would you have preferred them to?

166 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:15:19pm

Charlie... Charlie... Chaaaarleeeee... we're on a bridge, Charlie!

167 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:15:20pm

re: #155 ludwigvanquixote

My little brother is, and has always been, anal retentive. I am not certain how he got so anal. We were all raised by the same parents and none of us were toilet trained at gun point, but somehow he came out that way. As a boy, of ten, he would iron, fold and color code his socks when he neatly ordered them in his drawer. He was the kid who liked to clean his room.

I'll wager you had some fun with his psychological state at least once or twice as a youth.

168 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:15:45pm

re: #163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What if we tell the Chinese we'll call it even. We won't sue them; they forgive our debt.

I think I'll become a congress-critter.

I have the art of diplomacy down pat!

That is 'effing brilliant!

169 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:15:51pm

re: #152 Bagua

With your nimble tongue surely you could have turned that encounter into a part time job bringing them customers, and all the while getting freebies.

Fear and greed doesn't smell bad Cato, it smells like money.

Sorry, B. I used to work as a managing editor for a newsletter company whose behind-the-scenes, tell-nobody-on-pain-of-death motto was "fear and greed".

As in, how to manipulate your direct-mail marks into buying worthless get-rich-quick stock-flogging newsletters by playing to their fear, first, and then promising them undying wealth, second.

Right before I left they had to pay a million-dollar fine to the SEC for pumping and dumping the shit-stocks they lured their readers into buying.

Had enough of that game to last me for eternity, thanks very much.

(By the way, no one who worked for the company was ever stupid enough to buy the stocks we pumped. Little matter of common sense and self-preservation.)

170 Ericus58  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:16:15pm

German soldiers killed in Afghanistan clashes

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

"Three German soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan, officials say.

They died during fierce fighting with Taliban insurgents in the north of the country, the German military said.....

Local government chief Abdul Wahid Omar Khil said he estimated that about 200 Taliban fighters were involved.

He said they had been firing on the Germans from civilian homes, the Associated Press reported."

171 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:16:26pm

re: #161 Dookiestain LaFlair

There can be only one! and the fight was atop the Silvercup Studios building in NYC.

172 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:16:55pm

re: #158 Racer X

Right.

A guy who has never stepped foot into a titty bar harps on about the political make-up of the patrons of titty bars. Next you'll lecture LVQ on physics?

Idiot. I'm talking about the political make-up of the people who invited me.

173 palomino  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:17:28pm

Check out the "Rationale" section on the Restore America Plan website. First two paragraphs mention both Book of Revelation and instituting biblical law in secular America.

Sounds like the Michigan Militia, just slightly less illiterate.

174 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:18:23pm

re: #157 Ericus58

Feds: Homes with Chinese drywall must be gutted

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

"NEW ORLEANS – Thousands of U.S. homes tainted by Chinese drywall should be completely gutted, according to new guidelines released Friday by the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

The guidelines say electrical wiring, outlets, circuit breakers, fire alarm systems, carbon monoxide alarms, fire sprinklers, gas pipes and drywall need to be removed."

Gee whiz you told them to stip putting toxic compounds in cat food and children's toys- where else are we supposed to recycle our industrial waste? We're on a budget and your government bonds are only worth so much on the open market. /

175 Bagua  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:18:37pm

re: #169 Cato the Elder

Pump and Dump is for the crooks, that is not the healthily fear and greed. There's a difference.

176 Dookiestain LaFlair  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:18:46pm

re: #171 lawhawk

I meant at the first sword fight at the beginning but at least some one got the reference.

177 hellointernet  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:18:49pm

LLOYD: What's the Grand Jury De jure?
FLO: It's the Grand Jury of the day.
LLOYD: Mmm, that sounds good. I'll have that.

178 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:19:12pm

re: #166 cliffster

Charlie... Charlie... Chaaarleee... we're on a bridge, Charlie!

Aaaah! They took my frickin' kidney!

179 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:19:52pm

California AG clears ACORN

(04-01) 19:55 PDT SAN FRANCISCO -- California Attorney General Jerry Brown said Thursday that he will not prosecute the community organizing group ACORN or conservative filmmakers who posed as a pimp and prostitute while secretly videotaping conversations at Southern California offices of the group last year.

Read more: [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

180 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:21:23pm

re: #172 Cato the Elder

Idiot. I'm talking about the political make-up of the people who invited me.

Ahh.

Forgive me. You were talking about the one incident. I just assumed because you posted it several times, and implied conservatives were the primary patrons of said establishments, that you had done some time consuming exhaustive research on the subject.

My apologies.

181 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:22:20pm

re: #179 Conservative Moonbat

California AG clears ACORN


Smart man.

Never get in between a Pimp, a Ho and a Community Organizer. (Even if you can tell the difference). /

182 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:22:48pm

re: #168 Racer X

That is 'effing brilliant!

Suing them is easy.

Collecting is impossible. Chinese companies that are not part of Western conglomerates are completely beyond the reach of Western civil justice and are never held financially responsible for this sort of thing.

183 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:23:06pm

re: #179 Conservative Moonbat

Brown granted conservative filmmakers James O'Keefe III and Hannah Giles immunity in exchange for their full, unedited videotapes of their encounters with the group's staff, during which they sought advice on how to smuggle Mexican girls across the border as prostitutes.

The evidence does not show that employees of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now violated state criminal laws in connection with their conversations with O'Keefe and Giles, the report concluded. But the report called the decision by the group's San Diego office to throw away 500 pages of data on employees and people in the community a possible violation of civil laws.

While the secretary of state's office found four instances of voter fraud in San Diego during the 2008 election campaign, the attorney general's report found no "evidence of actual fraudulent votes being cast."

Brown's office did not determine whether the filmmakers violated the state's privacy laws but criticized them for creating "heavily edited films" that overstated the goings-on at ACORN.

"The evidence illustrates," Brown said, "that things are not always as partisan zealots portray them through highly selective editing of reality. Sometimes a fuller truth is found on the cutting room floor."

184 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:23:17pm

re: #170 Ericus58

German soldiers killed in Afghanistan clashes

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

"Three German soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan, officials say.

They died during fierce fighting with Taliban insurgents in the north of the country, the German military said...

Local government chief Abdul Wahid Omar Khil said he estimated that about 200 Taliban fighters were involved.

He said they had been firing on the Germans from civilian homes, the Associated Press reported."

May God bless them and bring their souls to Heaven. And may their comrades pound the local Talibs into dust.

185 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:23:25pm

re: #182 garhighway

The Chinese Government runs some of the companies, according to the linked story.

186 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:25:38pm

re: #185 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The Chinese Government runs some of the companies, according to the linked story.

True. there were basically four bad suppliers. Three are essentially subs of the PLA, and the fourth is owned by a German conglomerate.

187 Kragar  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:25:45pm

re: #181 DaddyG

Smart man.

Never get in between a Pimp, a Ho and a Community Organizer. (Even if you can tell the difference). /

Or when you are planning to run for Governor in a liberal state.

188 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:26:56pm

re: #187 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Or when you are planning to run for Governor in a liberal state.

No.
Shit.

189 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:27:17pm

RIP John Forsythe. He died at the age of 92 and had starring roles in Dynasty and was the voice of Charlie in Charlie's Angels.

190 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:28:35pm

re: #157 Ericus58

Feds: Homes with Chinese drywall must be gutted

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

"NEW ORLEANS – Thousands of U.S. homes tainted by Chinese drywall should be completely gutted, according to new guidelines released Friday by the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

The guidelines say electrical wiring, outlets, circuit breakers, fire alarm systems, carbon monoxide alarms, fire sprinklers, gas pipes and drywall need to be removed."

So please let me clearly state the history here.

In fits of short term greed, we as Americans decided that if we could not fuck over American workers who were unionized, we would cut costs by sending work overseas. Also, as a result of this model, quality went down, because things that are built to last do not get re bought every year or so. Planned obsolescence became part of maintaining consumption. Rather than paying a little more for sturdy furniture or whatever, we get crap that needs to be replaced frequently.

As a direct result of this model:

1. We shut down the greatest industrial powerhouse in human history and shipped it to China.

2. We did it so thoroughly that it is almost impossible to find competing goods that are affordable.

3. We crushed the American working man.

4. We gave a body blow to the American middle class. Wealth pyramided even more.

5. We directly funded the second greatest polluter on the planet. And as a result bought and consumed our way into even more AGW, that now we have to deal with a hostile foreign power to shut down. Besides this also increased oil profits.

6. That foreign power now owns a ton of our debt - which was based on complicated and largely imaginary structures, rather than real world assets that can be touched or held - while in terms of real world things, they have those.

7. We completely ignored the plight of those working in the third world to feed our addiction to cheap crap - and then we wonder why so many hate us.

8. There is no easy way out of the mess, since those who profited from it the most have an undue hold on the government due to the fact that in the US wealth = power. And BTW I don't just mean China and India, I mean all those people who own things like Wallmart and the oil companies.

9. Americans now have even shittier stuff that will cost more to replace.

This is something that both parties are at fault for. However, as always, we know which party was the most into deregulating and promoting the needs of wealthy corporations over the needs of America.

191 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:29:50pm

re: #189 lawhawk

He was in Scrooged too! Played an old guy. Damn. That was 22 years ago!

192 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:29:58pm

re: #167 DaddyG

I'll wager you had some fun with his psychological state at least once or twice as a youth.

Actually, I never thought that messing up his room would be nice. I never did. He's actually, for someone so anal, rather decent. He won't impose it on you, you just have to be surgical in his own space.

193 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:30:01pm
194 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:31:06pm

re: #190 ludwigvanquixote

Not unrelated: Yuan-Decision Timing to Come Within Days

195 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:31:22pm

re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist

I didn't realize there was a 'divine right of travel'. I feel empowered by God to go to the grocery store now.

Palestinians invoke it all the time whenever the "apartheid wall" impedes them from getting into Israel and killing random Jews.

196 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:31:27pm

re: #190 ludwigvanquixote

It's a little more complicated than that is this one instance. The imported drywall was needed because of the huge post-Katrina spike in demand. Under normal market circumstances, this stuff would have never come here.

That's not to say that your analysis doesn't apply to lots of other products.

197 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:32:06pm
198 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:32:22pm

re: #166 cliffster

Charlie... Charlie... Chaaarleee... we're on a bridge, Charlie!

Shun the unbeliever... shunnnnnn... shunnnnnnnnn...

199 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:33:08pm

re: #190 ludwigvanquixote

To be fair, Ludwig, the Unions and their Dem enablers have their own fair of the blame. But neither party has shown anything like real leadership on issues such as this.

200 Bagua  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:33:14pm

re: #194 The Sanity Inspector

Not unrelated: Yuan-Decision Timing to Come Within Days

I read the deal is, they agree to Iran sanctions and the US lets them them keep the Yuan under-valued. That is an expensive trade.

201 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:36:09pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

To be fair, Ludwig, the Unions and their Dem enablers have their own fair of the blame. But neither party has shown anything like real leadership on issues such as this.

I was being fair when I said that both parties are to blame. However the whole ship your job overseas thing was created by a certain corporate model that looked more to quarterly statements than yearly ones.

The GOP is, was, and has been, the champion of the corporations.

202 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:37:30pm

re: #190 ludwigvanquixote

Blame the GOP for all of the problems in the U.S. - got it. Democrats had nothing to do with it. Got it. R's were the only ones with any real power over the last hundred fucking years. Got it. Anything the R's did that was bad, the D's were too stupid to recognize it, and therefore could do nothing about it.
Got it.

Holy fucking crap.

I seem to recall that Sam Walton started Walmart as a way to sell "made in America" stuff. It became more expensive and he made a business decision to carry other items as well. People flocked to his stores. The cheaper the stuff - the more people came.

To say "we" made a conscious decision to fuck over ourselves is a bit much.

203 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:38:45pm

re: #155 ludwigvanquixote

Clearly, he is also a chess player!

204 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:39:31pm

Watch this full scr -- it's a CGI-gasm...

Clash of the Titans Trailer II

205 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:39:43pm

re: #201 ludwigvanquixote

The GOP is, was, and has been, the champion of the corporations.

You say that like it is a bad thing.

206 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:39:51pm

Good afternoon?

207 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:39:52pm

re: #203 Taqyia2Me

Clearly, he is also a chess player!

Yes, and a damn good one.

208 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:40:23pm

re: #202 Racer X

Blame the GOP for all of the problems in the U.S. - got it. Democrats had nothing to do with it. Got it. R's were the only ones with any real power over the last hundred fucking years. Got it. Anything the R's did that was bad, the D's were too stupid to recognize it, and therefore could do nothing about it.
Got it.

That's a little unfair. I seem to recall these words in the post you are responding to:

This is something that both parties are at fault for.

209 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:41:20pm

re: #206 Spare O'Lake

Good afternoon?

Good afternoon to you?

210 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:42:04pm

re: #209 cliffster

Good afternoon to you?

Nice to see you?

211 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:42:14pm

re: #190 ludwigvanquixote

Are you suggesting that we should not trade with other nations?

212 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:42:24pm

re: #205 Racer X

You say that like it is a bad thing.

It is a bad thing when that is championing them to the extent of hurting America as a whole.

Please do not read into what I wrote anymore than is there.

The Dems have a share in the blame for this mess as well. I said it clearly in the first post.

However, let's say that you are a corporation who figures it can squeeze a little more profit by cutting worker's benefits, or by polluting the environment, or by dodging safety standards? Do you go to the GOP or do you go to the Dems for help in making inconvenient regulations go away?

213 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:42:30pm

re: #208 garhighway

That's a little unfair. I seem to recall these words in the post you are responding to:

This is something that both parties are at fault for.

Sorry - I must have missed that under all the self loathing and underlying blame the GOP message.

214 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:43:47pm

re: #212 ludwigvanquixote

However, let's say that you are a corporation who figures it can squeeze a little more profit by cutting worker's benefits, or by polluting the environment, or by dodging safety standards? Do you go to the GOP or do you go to the Dems for help in making inconvenient regulations go away?

Both.

They Always do both. Always.

215 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:44:28pm

We seem to have stumbled into a straw man festival.

It's like burning man, only more flammable and less fun.

216 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:45:28pm

re: #213 Racer X

Sorry - I must have missed that under all the self loathing and underlying blame the GOP message.

X, cut the crap. There is no self loathing there. Or rather, there is a difference between clearly taking responsibility for the consequences of our actions and self loathing.

Certainly just callig it self loathing is a convienient way for you to avoid thinking about the truths that were written.

We really did destroy our own industrial base and pay to build it in China.

We really did loose out on the deal.

It really did weaken our economy as a whole only to benefit the wealth of a few.

It really did result in vastly more emissions that are now going to be vastly harder to shut down.

217 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:45:41pm

re: #201 ludwigvanquixote

I was being fair when I said that both parties are to blame. However the whole ship your job overseas thing was created by a certain corporate model that looked more to quarterly statements than yearly ones.

The GOP is, was, and has been, the champion of the corporations.

I've heard it said that much of the issue with that has been that corporations are often owned these days by large institutional investors. Such other organizations are mostly based on short term profits. To have prevented this trend by regulation would have been very hard, and nobody really understood what it meant before it happened.

218 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:45:57pm

Mmmm, coffee.

Let's see. Vladimir Putin flew down to Venezuela to "deepen ties" with Hugo Chavez. This after the Moscow metro bombings perpetrated by Islamic extremists from Chechnya followed by Medvedev's statement to take "scrape them in the sewers.

So we have: Russia being an ally of Venezuela and Iran; Venezuela being an ally of Russia and Iran; and quite likely Iran being an ally of the Chechen extremists.

Looks like a circular firing squad.

219 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:46:17pm

re: #214 Racer X

Both.

They Always do both. Always.

And which one much more than the other?

220 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:46:24pm

re: #202 Racer X

RX, why is it 'cheaper' to buy something that was made on the other side of the world, shipped overseas in containers which are then shipped back empty? Is it? I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a free lunch. Pretty darned sure.

221 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:46:55pm

re: #217 Dark_Falcon

I've heard it said that much of the issue with that has been that corporations are often owned these days by large institutional investors. Such other organizations are mostly based on short term profits. To have prevented this trend by regulation would have been very hard, and nobody really understood what it meant before it happened.

Actually, it was mostly GOP de-regulation that made it possible.

222 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:47:19pm

re: #221 ludwigvanquixote

Actually, it was mostly GOP de-regulation that made it possible.

How do you figure?

223 Shill  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:49:22pm

re: #179 Conservative Moonbat

California AG clears ACORN

I read his report, and it's amazingly unfair. I'm sorry, but ACORN is what it is, and we all know it. He admits that O'Keefe posed as a man profiting from prostitution, but also claims it relevant O'Keefe did not explicitly claim to be a pimp (this is pretty insane reasoning).

He knows that ACORN offered advise on how to hide and abuse (discipline) prostitutes and also hide the profits. Why would this be a partisan issue at all? I hope some good democrats are smart enough to get ahead of the curve on this particular issue. The House will probably be having investigations on this blatant cover up. As I've said before, a few nuts do not implicate the policies of a party. It's not like the Democratic Party would be harmed at all by condemning ACORN and prosecuting the criminals. I've listened to the unedited audio, and there's nothing on there that changes the fact that some of these offices were trying to help commit mortgage fraud and help someone do some nasty stuff. Brown's spin echoes a lot of the Media Matters debunked coverage, with the 'O'keefe didn't wear the costume' non sequitor and the 'It was wildly edited out of context' blatant lie. Brown summarized San Diego with 'They called the cops', even though they didn't. Someone just mentioned it to a police officer over a week later. That's not an honest investigation.

What's fascinating is that O'Keefe's story wasn't even that good. A few jackass employees are scumbags and tolerate the absolute worst sort of behavior? It should be cleaned up and exposed and everyone should admit ACORN has a problem (they have actually pled guilty to so many crimes at this point). And it will be cleaned up and exposed, in a court of law, and now a couple of much more prominent democrats are part of the problem. No, Breitbart took a mediocre story and turned it into how the left distorts and covers up too readily. I think Brown should be concerned about that, because Breitbart probably will back up his claim to have more before the elections.

It's like that 'wiretap' watergate 2 story, where all it is now is the banal observation that undercover journalists enter under false pretenses when investigating. O'Keefe would be a nobody if the left didn't facilitate him with distortion, when the real point of his expose is to show distortions.

224 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:49:52pm

re: #220 Olsonist

RX, why is it 'cheaper' to buy something that was made on the other side of the world, shipped overseas in containers which are then shipped back empty? Is it? I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a free lunch. Pretty darned sure.

Trust that the companies that have shifted their production overseas were very, very careful with their math. When it makes them more profitable, they do it. When it doesn't, they don't. And they factor in shipping costs.

But the world of overseas shipping has gotten very efficient. With giant container ships they can haul an awful lot of stuff and spread the cost very widely.

225 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:50:32pm

Remember when both parties came together to repeal Glass–Steagal? Aaahhhh, bipartisanship.

226 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:51:33pm

re: #223 Shill

What is ACORN, exactly?

227 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:51:48pm

re: #211 cliffster

Are you suggesting that we should not trade with other nations?

NIce straw man attempt! No not at all. I am saying that ethics should be part of the consideration in addition to profit when we do trade! I am saying that a sensible economic model is a sustainable one and I am saying that the needs of America as a whole should be taken into account when considering regulations and de-regulations.

I am saying that we had the greatest golden egg laying goose in history and that because some powerful and wealthy few thought that those eggs just somehow weren't big enough, they had to roast the goose to the long term detriment of all.

I am saying that economics is about more than just short term greed and that the long term must always be accounted for.

228 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:52:14pm

re: #216 ludwigvanquixote

LVQ, I agree with you. America screwed up. We went for the best price on stuff. China had it and we went for it. There have been many "buy American" campaigns over the years. They are largely ignored due to the costs of American goods.

America has higher labor costs. Unions?
America has tighter environmental restrictions. Good thing.
America has higher corporate taxes. Bad thing.

Supply and demand works. I'm not saying China is good or America is bad. We can fix America and be environmentally conscious. It's gonna require sacrifice.

229 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:52:30pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

How do you figure?

That is a research paper long post you asked for. I ask that you google yourself the history of deregulation debates in the US.

230 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:52:43pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

How do you figure?

Well, Jack Abramoff was lobbying to allow Northern Mariana Islands which is part of the United Fucking States of America to allow slavery, keeping workers penned inside of barbed wire in shacks.

Yeah, it's free enterprise if you think about it.

231 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:53:43pm

re: #223 Shill

Brown's spin echoes a lot of the Media Matters debunked coverage, with the 'O'keefe didn't wear the costume' non sequitor and the 'It was wildly edited out of context' blatant lie.

You've seen the unedited raw footage?

232 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:54:05pm

re: #227 ludwigvanquixote

NIce straw man attempt! No not at all. I am saying that ethics should be part of the consideration in addition to profit when we do trade! I am saying that a sensible economic model is a sustainable one and I am saying that the needs of America as a whole should be taken into account when considering regulations and de-regulations.

I am saying that we had the greatest golden egg laying goose in history and that because some powerful and wealthy few thought that those eggs just somehow weren't big enough, they had to roast the goose to the long term detriment of all.

I am saying that economics is about more than just short term greed and that the long term must always be accounted for.

What if we just said that we will impose as a tariff the cost of your bringing your (the exporting country's) labor, safety and environmental standards up to ours? That would level the playing field and leave the exporting country free to decide what changes it wanted to make.

233 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:54:28pm

re: #216 ludwigvanquixote

X, cut the crap. There is no self loathing there. Or rather, there is a difference between clearly taking responsibility for the consequences of our actions and self loathing.

Certainly just callig it self loathing is a convienient way for you to avoid thinking about the truths that were written.

We really did destroy our own industrial base and pay to build it in China.

We really did loose out on the deal.

It really did weaken our economy as a whole only to benefit the wealth of a few.

It really did result in vastly more emissions that are now going to be vastly harder to shut down.

Had we gone the other way, thrown up a high tariff wall and instituted more protectionist measures for native industries, might we not have a mess of a different sort on our hands?

234 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:54:44pm

re: #231 goddamnedfrank

You've seen the unedited raw footage?

I have a hunch the answer to your question is "no".

235 webevintage  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:54:53pm

I just need to vent.

Dear neighbor...

I'm sure your new fucking gun is covered with awesome sauce, but I am sick and tired of you shooting it off each afternoon now that the weather is nice.
You couldn't do it during the winter when my windows were closed could you?
Oh nooooooo....
Seeing as how we live in bumfuck Arkansas there is probably no law against you shooting off your gun whenever you want.
(and normally I'm pretty live and let live, but you have gotten on my last nerve and I am worried you will end up killing one of the kittahs that roam our woods.)
Just wanted to let you know that you are on my list.
Oh and put your damn shirt back on, your back hair is not all that.
OK
I feel better now.

236 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:55:27pm

re: #229 ludwigvanquixote

That is a research paper long post you asked for. I ask that you google yourself the history of deregulation debates in the US.

I'll do that when I can. I'm about to leave, and cannot right now.

237 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:56:21pm

re: #228 Racer X

LVQ, I agree with you. America screwed up. We went for the best price on stuff. China had it and we went for it. There have been many "buy American" campaigns over the years. They are largely ignored due to the costs of American goods.

America has higher labor costs. Unions?
America has tighter environmental restrictions. Good thing.
America has higher corporate taxes. Bad thing.

Supply and demand works. I'm not saying China is good or America is bad. We can fix America and be environmentally conscious. It's gonna require sacrifice.

This is utter bullshit.

America did not go for the best price on things - for the consumer. Oviously buying three things that need to be regularly replaced, makes more profit than buying one thing that lasts.

America did not go for the best price with China. American corporations, which were the most successful in world history after the Second World War, wanted even more short term profit, and they achieved this by destroying American industry and giving it to nations that don't give a damn if workers die, if the environment is destroyed or if children do the labor.

There is such a thing as morality here too. We are getting our karma here for being so easily and blindly seduced by cheap materialism in this culture.

238 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:56:35pm

re: #223 Shill

So who are you a shill for? Breitbart? LI? YAF?

239 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:56:49pm

re: #235 webevintage

Howdy, neighbor!

240 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:58:27pm
241 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:58:32pm

re: #221 ludwigvanquixote

Actually, it was mostly GOP de-regulation that made it possible.

Clinton signed the bill repealing glass-steigal don't forget. I'll never forgive him for that one.

242 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:58:43pm

re: #233 The Sanity Inspector

Had we gone the other way, thrown up a high tariff wall and instituted more protectionist measures for native industries, might we not have a mess of a different sort on our hands?

That is the cart before the horse. When Chinese and third world industry started up, where did the capitol to do so come from. Had we simply said we would not buy goods that were not produced under our own existing labor standards, there would have been no mess at all. The third world industrialization actually would have modernized them rather than crushing their own people, and there would have been a level playing field with American goods.

243 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:59:20pm

re: #241 Conservative Moonbat

Clinton signed the bill repealing glass-steigal don't forget. I'll never forgive him for that one.

Hence mostly in my original comments.

244 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:59:28pm

re: Chinese drywall

The reason that so many people ended up buying Chinese drywall was because US manufacturers couldn't keep up with demand for drywall in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, which was unprecedented in size and scope of people affected. People sought out drywall wherever they could, and the Chinese sources turned out to be what was at hand. People thought it was equivalent to other sources, including those made by GP.

It wasn't.

But trying to blame the mess squarely on political determinations and cost/benefit ignores that it was an unprecedented disaster that sent desperate people hoping to rebuild their homes and businesses to find drywall in places they wouldn't ordinarily do so.

Note also that one of the further effects of the fallout from the Chinese drywall fiasco is that people wont soon buy construction materials from China, or if they do, they will pay much closer attention to the quality - including regulators who are supposed to check for quality when such items come into the US.

245 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:00:12pm

I'm out for a bit. BBL

246 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:00:33pm

re: #232 garhighway

What if we just said that we will impose as a tariff the cost of your bringing your (the exporting country's) labor, safety and environmental standards up to ours? That would level the playing field and leave the exporting country free to decide what changes it wanted to make.

This has always been part of my solution to AGW.

247 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:01:43pm

re: #237 ludwigvanquixote

LVQ, I can count on one hand the number of people I know who know how to do simple vehicle maintenance. You have illustrated a problem with short term corporate profits but I think there is a larger issue. America became a throw-away society. I don't know how this happened but it did. The corporations, right or wrong, picked up on this and tailored their business models to suit the new desire of Americans to only keep their "stuff" for two or three years. I'll use the auto as an example: how many people are driving paid off cars and can actually fix them if they break? While corporations are to blame for sending our manufacturing base overseas, the American people need have an attitude adjustment. We need to collectively stop throwing away perfectly good items and learn to live within our means.

248 webevintage  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:01:48pm

re: #239 The Sanity Inspector

Howdy, neighbor!

hahahahaha
If only I could put itty bitty orange safety vest on all the neighborhood cats I'd feel much better.
But then the noise would still be annoying me.

249 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:02:53pm

re: #227 ludwigvanquixote

NIce straw man attempt! No not at all. I am saying that ethics should be part of the consideration in addition to profit when we do trade! I am saying that a sensible economic model is a sustainable one and I am saying that the needs of America as a whole should be taken into account when considering regulations and de-regulations.

I am saying that we had the greatest golden egg laying goose in history and that because some powerful and wealthy few thought that those eggs just somehow weren't big enough, they had to roast the goose to the long term detriment of all.

I am saying that economics is about more than just short term greed and that the long term must always be accounted for.

Well, obviously comparative advantage looks great on paper but has to be taken with a grain of salt in real life. And you don't want to trade with countries behaving badly, nor do you want to outsource work that's sensitive to our security. As for why the goose got roasted, I think you have to look at unions as a major factor there. In fact, anything that artificially raises the cost of inputs to production sends companies looking overseas for cheaper fields. What are you going to do - put tariffs in place? Does that ever work out well? The answer is no. Here in the USA, we've come to the conclusion that we can have our cake and eat it too - and that is the main reason for the problems you describe.

250 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:03:24pm

re: #237 ludwigvanquixote

This is utter bullshit.

America did not go for the best price on things - for the consumer. Oviously buying three things that need to be regularly replaced, makes more profit than buying one thing that lasts.

America did not go for the best price with China. American corporations, which were the most successful in world history after the Second World War, wanted even more short term profit, and they achieved this by destroying American industry and giving it to nations that don't give a damn if workers die, if the environment is destroyed or if children do the labor.

There is such a thing as morality here too. We are getting our karma here for being so easily and blindly seduced by cheap materialism in this culture.

This is utter bullshit.

Yes, corporate profits always drive business decisions. There was less profit to be made on American made goods; consumers want the best price on any goods. Pure and simple.

251 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:03:42pm

re: #244 lawhawk

The reason that so many people ended up buying Chinese drywall was because US manufacturers couldn't keep up with demand for drywall in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, which was unprecedented in size and scope of people affected. ...

Do you have some citations for that? America is a pretty big country. New Orleans isn't that big a city.

Smells fishy.

252 Shill  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:03:53pm

re: #231 goddamnedfrank

I have listened to the raw audio. I doubt there is raw unedited, but unless they were holding up placards contradicting what they were saying, I am convinced there is no legit exculpatory explanation for the mistakes made by ACORN.

Which section of the unedited audio are you referring to as doing this?

Like I said, this is not really a partisan issue. You can't work your way out of the kind of things ACORN did. 'Here's a tax form, here's a mortgage app, you say you are a prostitute making X, I will lie and say a totally different story to help you. You say you are going to import kids as prostitutes for profit? Make sure you take these steps to elude detection'.

There's no context that I could imagine that explains it, but I still listened to 100% of the raw unedited material and, as suspected, it's simply a story about criminals... until people actually fall for the trick of making a partisan show out of it.

Granted, Breitbart was sleazy in how he made that happen. He released just a little, and then a little more, until a lot of people were invested in defending some people who were caught lying (Bertha Lewis, namely). But why fall for it? It's not hard to admit the ACORN activities here are as horrible and corrosive as the dozens of election fraud crimes their members have pled guilty to.

253 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:05:00pm

re: #244 lawhawk

What about the Mattel recall of Chinese toys. Millions of them for lead paint and small, chokable pieces.

254 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:05:50pm

re: #253 marjoriemoon

What about the Mattel recall of Chinese toys. Millions of them for lead paint and small, chokable pieces.

That shit qualifies as a good reason to get involved in free trade.

255 Shill  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:05:53pm

re: #252 Shill

I have listened to the raw audio. I doubt there is raw unedited, but unless they were holding up placards contradicting what they were saying, I am convinced there is no legit exculpatory explanation for the mistakes made by ACORN.

Which section of the unedited audio are you referring to as doing this?

Like I said, this is not really a partisan issue. You can't work your way out of the kind of things ACORN did. 'Here's a tax form, here's a mortgage app, you say you are a prostitute making X, I will lie and say a totally different story to help you. You say you are going to import kids as prostitutes for profit? Make sure you take these steps to elude detection'.

There's no context that I could imagine that explains it, but I still listened to 100% of the raw unedited material and, as suspected, it's simply a story about criminals... until people actually fall for the trick of making a partisan show out of it.

Granted, Breitbart was sleazy in how he made that happen. He released just a little, and then a little more, until a lot of people were invested in defending some people who were caught lying (Bertha Lewis, namely). But why fall for it? It's not hard to admit the ACORN activities here are as horrible and corrosive as the dozens of election fraud crimes their members have pled guilty to.

My second sentence should say "I doubt there is raw unedited video".

That just seems like establishing unrealistic goalposts. Anyway, Brown should release this material that he claims shows ACORN in a non-criminal light. And I'm pretty sure he will be required to do so by the US House of Representatives when it becomes a Republican body.

256 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:07:17pm

re: #255 Shill

When will it become a Republican body?

257 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:08:37pm

Last night we were talking about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire that happened 100 years ago.

Well, here's another shirt factory fire from a couple of weeks ago.

258 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:08:41pm

Pimp -
"Hi, me and my Ho's need some input on how to smuggle in more Ho's and get free stuff."

ACORN -
"Get the fuck outta here you idiot."

/problem solved.

259 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:08:59pm

re: #254 cliffster

That shit qualifies as a good reason to get involved in free trade.

I don't follow you. Who is going to oversee the toys being made outside of the U.S. to make sure they're safe for our children? The corporations?

I'm not even talking necessities like food (ecoli anyone) or construction materials.

260 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:09:02pm

re: #252 Shill

I have listened to the raw audio.

bull.shit. You've listened to what Breitbart and O'Keefe have chosen to release.

I doubt there is raw unedited ...

Why do you doubt that, it makes not sense, unless it's because you believe Breitbart and O'Keefe destroyed the raw footage? That's the only explanation.

261 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:09:41pm

re: #251 Olsonist

Do you have some citations for that? America is a pretty big country. New Orleans isn't that big a city.

Smells fishy.

The drywall probably is pretty much confined to the Southeast, where the hurricanes of that year (Katrina, Rita and Wilma) hit. And remember, Katrina wasn't just a New Orleans phenomena: it hit coastal Alabama and Mississippi very hard. Coming on the heels of the prior hurricane season (Charlie, Ivan, Frances) and the Florida homebuilding boom, this was about a demand spike.

Plus the bad characteristics of the drywall are only activated by exposure to heat and humidity. Hence, it's mainly a Southeast US problem.

Imports of the Chinese stuff dropped off after the spike passed, and are now essentially zero.

I'll see if I can find some public to link to, but it might not be easily available.

262 Ojoe  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:10:00pm

The political rhetoric in the country has reached madness level.

Time for a Centrist party, and cut the loonies adrift.

263 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:10:36pm

re: #257 Alouette

Last night we were talking about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire that happened 100 years ago.

Well, here's another shirt factory fire from a couple of weeks ago.

Those Swedish socialist bastards!

264 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:10:58pm

re: #259 marjoriemoon

I don't follow you. Who is going to oversee the toys being made outside of the U.S. to make sure they're safe for our children? The corporations?

I'm not even talking necessities like food (ecoli anyone) or construction materials.

I'm saying, that's a reason to tell China that they've lost US privileges in their toy exporting.

265 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:11:27pm

re: #263 Racer X

Those Swedish socialist bastards!

H&M: the Triangle Shirtwaist of the 21st century

266 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:11:39pm

re: #255 Shill

My second sentence should say "I doubt there is raw unedited video".


Bullshit, Okeefe was given immunity in exchange for the unedited tapes. Everyone who has viewed the unedited tapes concludes that the videos Breitbart published were dishonestly edited. If ACORN was really that bad why does Breitbart have to lie?

267 bosforus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:12:36pm

Looks like a "Guardian of the Free Republic" (can't definitively verify membership but it seems likely) has been setting up their own stupid questions on Yahoo Answers:
WHAT IS THE PUERTO RICO BUREAU OF TAXATION NOW CALLED?
[Link: answers.yahoo.com...]
Some of this user's other questions:
[Link: answers.yahoo.com...]
I want to become a multi-millionaire by age 30. I'm 21 right now.?
Struggling with a religion homwork essay question ... please help!!?
Theists, what is your best piece of evidence for God?
Atheists how can you deny a savior please design an apostate answer for me?
Atheistically speaking, what do you wise intellectual giants who say there is no God want to learn here in R&S?

268 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:13:04pm

re: #266 Killgore Trout

Hearts to Kilgore. How does your garden grow today?

269 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:13:10pm

re: #266 Killgore Trout

Bullshit, Okeefe was given immunity in exchange for the unedited tapes. Everyone who has viewed the unedited tapes concludes that the videos Breitbart published were dishonestly edited. If ACORN was really that bad why does Breitbart have to lie?

I'd like to see the unedited tapes and make my own decision on who is the bigger idiot.

270 Stanghazi  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:13:26pm

re: #235 webevintage

I just need to vent.

Dear neighbor...

I'm sure your new fucking gun is covered with awesome sauce, but I am sick and tired of you shooting it off each afternoon now that the weather is nice.
You couldn't do it during the winter when my windows were closed could you?
Oh nooo...
Seeing as how we live in bumfuck Arkansas there is probably no law against you shooting off your gun whenever you want.
(and normally I'm pretty live and let live, but you have gotten on my last nerve and I am worried you will end up killing one of the kittahs that roam our woods.)
Just wanted to let you know that you are on my list.
Oh and put your damn shirt back on, your back hair is not all that.
OK
I feel better now.

Sorry for your troubles, but thank you so much for the needed laugh.

271 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:13:45pm

re: #228 Racer X

LVQ, I agree with you. America screwed up. We went for the best price on stuff. China had it and we went for it. There have been many "buy American" campaigns over the years. They are largely ignored due to the costs of American goods.

America has higher labor costs. Unions?
America has tighter environmental restrictions. Good thing.
America has higher corporate taxes. Bad thing.

Supply and demand works. I'm not saying China is good or America is bad. We can fix America and be environmentally conscious. It's gonna require sacrifice.

It's a funny thing about sacrifice. Most folks can be persuaded to sacrifice someone else's interests, but rarely will they voluntarily reduce their own standard of living. Since individuals will not do so volutarily, there are only two other possible ways to get the job done: either government must do it or the market will do it for them.

272 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:14:12pm

re: #268 prairiefire

Hearts to Kilgore. How does your garden grow today?

It's doing OK, but cold and rainy as hell outside today. I'm getting some "real work" done inside but I'd rather be out digging in the dirt.

273 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:14:29pm

re: #247 Jetpilot1101

LVQ, I can count on one hand the number of people I know who know how to do simple vehicle maintenance. You have illustrated a problem with short term corporate profits but I think there is a larger issue. America became a throw-away society. I don't know how this happened but it did. The corporations, right or wrong, picked up on this and tailored their business models to suit the new desire of Americans to only keep their "stuff" for two or three years. I'll use the auto as an example: how many people are driving paid off cars and can actually fix them if they break? While corporations are to blame for sending our manufacturing base overseas, the American people need have an attitude adjustment. We need to collectively stop throwing away perfectly good items and learn to live within our means.

Restated for emphasis.

That is brilliant.

As an example, how many people can polish their shoes? If you want a way to save money and stay in style, it is amazing what spend a mere ten minutes every other week or so will do to a pair of shoes. They look like or even better than new and last vastly longer because you are taking care of the leather.

They also conform more to your feet over time and are vastly more comfortable if you do this.

But I know a lot of people who buy cheap plastic shoes and throw them out in a matter of months - only to repeat the cycle, be less comfortable and have less good looking shoes.

274 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:14:30pm

re: #244 lawhawk

If you're buying chinese goods you're buying crap built with crap and supplemented with prison labor.

275 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:15:03pm

re: #261 garhighway

An alternate explanation of the same facts is that a profiteer got some cheap crap sent over from China and sold it to desperate people. This was not an inability of America to produce quality drywall unless you can prove that. This was an ability of someone to sell cheap drywall.

276 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:15:03pm

April fools!

Apologies if this was already posted:

Man arrested at Large Hadron Collider claims he's from the future

A would-be saboteur arrested today at the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland made the bizarre claim that he was from the future. Eloi Cole, a strangely dressed young man, said that he had travelled back in time to prevent the LHC from destroying the world.

The LHC successfully collided particles at record force earlier this week, a milestone Mr Cole was attempting to disrupt by stopping supplies of Mountain Dew to the experiment's vending machines. He also claimed responsibility for the infamous baguette sabotage in November last year.

Mr Cole was seized by Swiss police after CERN security guards spotted him rooting around in bins. He explained that he was looking for fuel for his 'time machine power unit', a device that resembled a kitchen blender.

Police said Mr Cole, who was wearing a bow tie and rather too much tweed for his age, would not reveal his country of origin. "Countries do not exist where I am from. The discovery of the Higgs boson led to limitless power, the elimination of poverty and Kit-Kats for everyone. It is a communist chocolate hellhole and I'm here to stop it ever happening."


Mr Cole was taken to a secure mental health facility in Geneva but later disappeared from his cell. Police are baffled, but not that bothered.
277 Stanghazi  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:15:41pm

Here is all the info on the CA ruling on Acorn. Including the unedited tapes - at the bottom.

Brad Blog

278 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:16:14pm

re: #269 Racer X

I'd like to see the unedited tapes and make my own decision on who is the bigger idiot.

You have Breitbart to blame for your inability to do so.

Since it is in his best interest to make the most compelling case he can, and since he has chosen to withhold the unedited tapes, what might you reasonably infer?

279 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:16:41pm

re: #269 Racer X

I'd like to see the unedited tapes and make my own decision on who is the bigger idiot.


There's a good reason Breitbart won't make them public. He'll show them to prosecutors in exchange for immunity but he's not going to release them to the public because they don't show what he claims. That's obvious. The real disgrace is that he's still taken seriously on the right. We all know he's a liar. There's no doubt about it. Nothing he says is ever going to become reality through wishful thinking. It's all BS.

280 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:16:48pm

re: #275 Olsonist

An alternate explanation of the same facts is that a profiteer got some cheap crap sent over from China and sold it to desperate people. This was not an inability of America to produce quality drywall unless you can prove that. This was an ability of someone to sell cheap drywall.

GP had some great drywall plants (technically drywall is a copyright name for American gypsum so we called ours wallboard at GP). I've been in several of the plants includingone in VT that set world records for production quality and speed.

281 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:17:24pm

Its a conpsir'cy. And just who is this everybody who seems to be an expert in everything?

282 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:17:28pm

re: #271 Spare O'Lake

It's a funny thing about sacrifice. Most folks can be persuaded to sacrifice someone else's interests, but rarely will they voluntarily reduce their own standard of living. Since individuals will not do so volutarily, there are only two other possible ways to get the job done: either government must do it or the market will do it for them.

Yes and no.

As example - lots of Americans went out and bought CFL bulbs when the price was still really high. The government jumped in and is regulating the sale of incandescent bulbs now (I think). Problem is CFLs aren't that great for the environment after all, and LEDs are the better way to go.

Oops.

283 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:18:11pm

I can't wait for the LEDs to come down in price- they sip energy.

284 Political Atheist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:18:36pm

re: #254 cliffster
You can add jewelry to the list on several levels-Shorting gold and or diamond content on imported fine jewelry.

Then in costume jewelry we had the lead scandal. So they stopped using lead and switched to cadmium. often in children's jewelry. Cadmium. What's next mercury ?!!? Spent nuclear fuel?

Has any9on else here seen the crash test footage of Chinese cars?

285 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:20:08pm

re: #179 Conservative Moonbat

California AG clears ACORN

You're gonna listen to a guy called 'Moonbeam'? He's just in on it with ACORN!!!

///

286 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:20:39pm

OT:

Here is an opinion piece from Governor Goodhair of the Great State of Texas:

[Link: www.statesman.com...]

Here's my favorite bit:

"Still, it's surprising that it's come to this, with the federal government unconstitutionally mandating the purchase of a specific product, and threatening those who don't abide with government fines."

Texas, by the way, requires that all drivers buy liability insurance or pay a fine.

Then there's this:

"The burden that would place on Texas taxpayers could be as much as $26 billion over the next 10 years. Despite that increased cost to our taxpayers, there will be no improvement to either the cost of health care or its quality."

There are around 26 million Texans today. So the cost over 10 years is $100/year/Texan. And it gets the uninsured out of our emergency rooms, which is *hugely* more expensive.

Goodhair is on Conservative Crack, and he will be charging hard for the Prez Nom in 2012. And he is a tremendous campaigner, brilliant on the stump, with some very smart people. He just WAXED Kay Bailey Hutchinson in the Repub primary, and she's pretty hardcore right.

287 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:21:52pm

re: #250 Racer X

This is utter bullshit.

Yes, corporate profits always drive business decisions. There was less profit to be made on American made goods; consumers want the best price on any goods. Pure and simple.

Yes. Bravo to the industries that "moved" their production facilities to China, India, etc., which resulted in their garnering 3rd world wages and the ability to utilize prison and child labor. Bravo for the profits a few people were able to retain under the name of corporate leadership. These corporations don't move their production to these 3rd world countries. They literally sub-contract with established production facilities in the 3rd world and China.

The end result was that a few people get to rake in the extra profits from their sales at Wal-Mart which is purchased from a shrunken employment population. When once towns had 100s of 10000s of employed textile workers now they're shut down. Those very same people that could have retained a decent living wage are now long gone and have no ability to even buy a Chinese made t-shirt from Wal-Mart.

Most are not even corporations any more and instead are LLCs.

288 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:22:12pm

re: #277 Stanley Sea

Here is all the info on the CA ruling on Acorn. Including the unedited tapes - at the bottom.

Brad Blog

Thanks!

I'm checking them out now. Should be fun!

289 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:22:32pm

re: #275 Olsonist

An alternate explanation of the same facts is that a profiteer got some cheap crap sent over from China and sold it to desperate people. This was not an inability of America to produce quality drywall unless you can prove that. This was an ability of someone to sell cheap drywall.

No one is saying the US can't produce good drywall. Of course we can, and we do every day.

What we couldn't do was create from whole cloth the capacity to produce additional millions of square feet of drywall on very short notice. I further suspect (but do not know) that the domestic producers did the math and saw that spending a lot of capital to gear up to fill a one or two year demand spike wasn't worth it. Instead, they ran their plants at full capacity and that was the best they could do.

The importers of the Chinese drywall weren't bad people. They were simply trying to fill orders the best way they could. Some were even domestic producers who imported some Chinese drywall on the side to fulfill demand.

I don't think there are any domestic villains here.

290 Ojoe  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:23:57pm

re: #276 iceweasel

At MIT or some similar place they held a time traveler's convention & nobody showed up, except from the present. So they concluded that time travel was not possible.

291 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:25:04pm

re: #257 Alouette

Last night we were talking about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire that happened 100 years ago.

Well, here's another shirt factory fire from a couple of weeks ago.

Once again, the doors were locked.

By people who valued profit more than their worker's safety.

292 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:25:11pm

re: #289 garhighway

What was this short notice? Katrina was in 2005. The rebuilding of NO has taken years.

293 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:25:12pm

Hey, anyone remember when Sinead O'Connor was savaged for her Saturday Night Live performance where she tore up the Pope's picture to protest sex abuse in the catholic church?

Like TWENTY YEARS AGO?

And everyone just pretended they had no idea and played kick-the-liberal-musician around for a while. Ah, memories.

And seriously, fuck Joe Pesci. Maybe if that was your kid that got raped, asshole, you might feel a bit differently.

294 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:26:06pm

re: #287 Gus 802

Yes. Bravo to the industries that "moved" their production facilities to China, India, etc., which resulted in their garnering 3rd world wages and the ability to utilize prison and child labor. Bravo for the profits a few people were able to retain under the name of corporate leadership. These corporations don't move their production to these 3rd world countries. They literally sub-contract with established production facilities in the 3rd world and China.

The end result was that a few people get to rake in the extra profits from their sales at Wal-Mart which is purchased from a shrunken employment population. When once towns had 100s of 10000s of employed textile workers now they're shut down. Those very same people that could have retained a decent living wage are now long gone and have no ability to even buy a Chinese made t-shirt from Wal-Mart.

Most are not even corporations any more and instead are LLCs.

Well, you can cry "Bravo" if you like, I think it is bullshit.

I would have preferred American businesses work out deals with our government where they keep production facilities and jobs here.

295 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:27:10pm

re: #251 Olsonist

[Link: chinesedrywalltests.com...]

296 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:28:17pm

The worst thing about Chinese drywall is when you eat it you always feel hungry again an hour later.

297 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:28:44pm

re: #294 Racer X

These companies did work out tax credits with the American gov't to ship these jobs overseas.

298 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:29:15pm

re: #290 Ojoe

At MIT or some similar place they held a time traveler's convention & nobody showed up, except from the present. So they concluded that time travel was not possible.

But, did they advertise their event in the media of the future?

299 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:29:24pm

re: #296 Mad Al-Jaffee

The worst thing about Chinese drywall is when you eat it you always feel hungry again an hour later.

rimshot

300 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:29:33pm

re: #289 garhighway

No one is saying the US can't produce good drywall. Of course we can, and we do every day.

What we couldn't do was create from whole cloth the capacity to produce additional millions of square feet of drywall on very short notice. I further suspect (but do not know) that the domestic producers did the math and saw that spending a lot of capital to gear up to fill a one or two year demand spike wasn't worth it. Instead, they ran their plants at full capacity and that was the best they could do.

The importers of the Chinese drywall weren't bad people. They were simply trying to fill orders the best way they could. Some were even domestic producers who imported some Chinese drywall on the side to fulfill demand.

I don't think there are any domestic villains here.

But when it comes to China, drywall wasn't the only inferior product they putting out. That may be a special case, because of the hurricanes (and I won't feel insulted you didn't mention S. Florida :>), but check this out. Toys, lamps, heaters, wiring, candles, bike frames, razor blades....

[Link: www.who-sucks.com...]

2007. I don't know if things have improved.

301 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:30:32pm

re: #292 Olsonist

What was this short notice? Katrina was in 2005. The rebuilding of NO has taken years.


The big demand spike was in 2004 - 2006. After that, domestic capacity was enough to handle the demand.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Do you have a particular view of the matter that you would like to share?

302 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:30:41pm

re: #293 WindUpBird

Hey, anyone remember when Sinead O'Connor was savaged for her Saturday Night Live performance where she tore up the Pope's picture to protest sex abuse in the catholic church?

Like TWENTY YEARS AGO?

And everyone just pretended they had no idea and played kick-the-liberal-musician around for a while. Ah, memories.

And seriously, fuck Joe Pesci. Maybe if that was your kid that got raped, asshole, you might feel a bit differently.

Sinead O'Connor tore up the Pope's picture because she didn't like the Pope, and everybody made fun of her because, hey, she was a bald chick.

303 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:31:28pm

re: #302 Alouette

Sinead O'Connor tore up the Pope's picture because she didn't like the Pope, and everybody made fun of her because, hey, she was a bald chick.

"A cute bald chick" as Andrew Dice Clay called her.

304 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:31:36pm

re: #297 Olsonist

These companies did work out tax credits with the American gov't to ship these jobs overseas.

Yep.

Because taxes and labor costs here in America were preventing them from making the profits they were expected to deliver.

305 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:32:35pm

re: #300 marjoriemoon

But when it comes to China, drywall wasn't the only inferior product they putting out. That may be a special case, because of the hurricanes (and I won't feel insulted you didn't mention S. Florida :>), but check this out. Toys, lamps, heaters, wiring, candles, bike frames, razor blades...

[Link: www.who-sucks.com...]

2007. I don't know if things have improved.

Of course: I am no apologist for the manufacturers. Their product sucked, and it is frustrating that, for the most part, they are not held financially responsible.

And of course there have been lots of other bad products coming from there. You and I do not disagree on this.

306 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:32:49pm

re: #300 marjoriemoon

It hasn't. They're still pumping out inferior and defective (or dangerous products). Some are laced with heavy metals that are prohibited from products like kids toys or jewelry.

Oh and for those who were hit with defective Chinese drywall issues, they may qualify for a casualty loss for tax purposes.

307 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:32:55pm

Chicks that resemble English soccer huligans scare me.

309 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:34:04pm

re: #295 lawhawk

Good overview. Yes, in addition to Katrina there was also the housing bubble as well. Despite this, there is no reason to lower building standards. The law of supply and demand really does have two sides. We could have raised prices on quality drywall rather than lower standards and importing cheap crap. Could have.

310 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:34:40pm

re: #293 WindUpBird

Hey, anyone remember when Sinead O'Connor was savaged for her Saturday Night Live performance where she tore up the Pope's picture to protest sex abuse in the catholic church?

Like TWENTY YEARS AGO?

And everyone just pretended they had no idea and played kick-the-liberal-musician around for a while. Ah, memories.

And seriously, fuck Joe Pesci. Maybe if that was your kid that got raped, asshole, you might feel a bit differently.

She was ordained a priest by some "rogue" bishop, you know that, yes? Of course, the Catholic Church doesn't recognize her.

I remember watching it that night and it was shocking anyway. Wow! What was it? "Fight the real enemy!"

Anyway, I always liked her. Gutsy little chick.

311 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:35:22pm

re: #296 Mad Al-Jaffee

The worst thing about Chinese drywall is when you eat it you always feel hungry again an hour later.

roflllll

312 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:35:25pm

re: #309 Olsonist

Good overview. Yes, in addition to Katrina there was also the housing bubble as well. Despite this, there is no reason to lower building standards. The law of supply and demand really does have two sides. We could have raised prices on quality drywall rather than lower standards and importing cheap crap. Could have.

Yep. But that would have raised home prices even higher.

313 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:35:38pm

re: #276 iceweasel

April fools!

Apologies if this was already posted:

Man arrested at Large Hadron Collider claims he's from the future

OK you should all know the truth about me:

I am not as I have often posted, a Zionist Lord of Remulak.

I am not even a physicist in the way you think.

I am actually a short Black woman from the year 2753 doing research for her dissertation in history. My thesis is called "How stupidity caused the decline of Empires, a study of the collapse of America."

I was born in the nice beach front town of Laurel MD. Well you would have called it Laurel. The Protectorate calls it New Washington.

So a little about the future world I come from.

There are some down sides. The eco-collapse was truly horrible. there was hope that when a new virus spread from Africa into Europe and coupled coupled with modern transportation led to a pandemic, the worst effects of a food crisis would be averted averted. The climate scientists in 2053 were still making models that were too soft though.

However, civilization did not completely collapse. There were some brutal times and places though I could tell you about. I always had a fascination of the Kingdom of Iowa and the dashing way that their motorcycle legion would invade the Barony of Ohio. I suppose it was our version of Knights, and like medievalists, I believe I was drawn to that period for the same reasons.

There are good things in the future too.

In 2251, the last Republican died in the Cincinnati zoo. James Jr as he liked to be called, was very comfortable. He was given an endless stream of Robot humanoid simulacrums with brown skin to abuse in his habitat. His last words were "It was satire damn it! Why don't those darkies get that!"

But honestly, it was because of him that I chose this research. I wondered what a world full of Republicans would be like. I also wanted to see the various creatures that became extinct.

I can't believe you people thought that tigers were less valuable than Chinese t-shirts!

Well there are a lot of Republicans here in this time. My advisor warned me of the culture shock.

314 allegro  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:36:41pm

re: #300 marjoriemoon

But when it comes to China, drywall wasn't the only inferior product they putting out. That may be a special case, because of the hurricanes (and I won't feel insulted you didn't mention S. Florida :>), but check this out. Toys, lamps, heaters, wiring, candles, bike frames, razor blades...

They killed my beloved Sheltie, my best buddy. This puts China at the top of my shit list forever.

315 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:36:49pm

re: #302 Alouette

Sinead O'Connor tore up the Pope's picture because she didn't like the Pope, and everybody made fun of her because, hey, she was a bald chick.

Nooooo.... she was speaking out against child abuse and I believe, racism, very specifically.

316 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:36:54pm

re: #228 Racer X

LVQ, I agree with you. America screwed up. We went for the best price on stuff. China had it and we went for it. There have been many "buy American" campaigns over the years. They are largely ignored due to the costs of American goods.

America has higher labor costs. Unions?
America has tighter environmental restrictions. Good thing.
America has higher corporate taxes. Bad thing.

Supply and demand works. I'm not saying China is good or America is bad. We can fix America and be environmentally conscious. It's gonna require sacrifice.

America has higher labor costs because we have a free and educated population. We don't generally like to see Americans living in cardboard boxes without running water. We like to own things and we want jobs that pay us enough money to pay for our basic needs and then some.

We actually don't have higher corporate taxes than many other places - certainly not other places that produce comparable goods in comparable regulatory environments(1). China has a lot of state-owned production and EXCEPTIONALLY lax standards for product quality, supply chain management and health and safety both inside and outside their plants.

Our stuff is more expensive because we don't let corporations produce crap and exploit their workers.

The Chinese stuff may look cheaper, but there are a lot of external costs that aren't covered by the price.

What we have done, by catering to corporations is destroy our own middle class by catering to multinationals at the absolute expense of small and mid-sized American businesses and farms. A company like Monsanto, for example, really makes its money in subsidy farming. Anything else it produces is incidental.

(1) Best thumbnail version I found in a quick goog search is at this website from the NSW government

317 cliffster  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:37:03pm

United Sates: Have cake.. check. Eat it too.. check.

318 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:37:58pm

re: #314 allegro

They killed my beloved Sheltie, my best buddy. This puts China at the top of my shit list forever.

OMG you got some of the bad pet food? OMG, I am so sorry.

319 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:38:02pm

re: #313 ludwigvanquixote

That could have been a really funny post.

320 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:38:15pm

re: #303 Mad Al-Jaffee

"A cute bald chick" as Andrew Dice Clay called her.

The Sinatra Group

Frank Sinatra.....Phil Hartman
Sinead O'Conner.....Jan Hooks
Billy Idol.....Sting
Luther Campbell.....Chris Rock
Steve Lawrence.....Mike Myers
Eydie Gorme.....Victoria Jackson

Announcer: The Sinatra Group. An unrehearsed discussion of current issues in the recording industry. With panelists Sinead O'Connor, Billy Idol, 2 Live Crew star Luther Campbell, and Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme. And now, here's the moderator, Frank Sinatra.

Frank Sinatra: Issue number one: Censorship. They got the records with the labels now, people getting arrested. What the hell's going on? Sine-aid O'Conner!

Sinead O'Connor: Well, I thnk it's a bloody shame that freedom of expression is suppressed in this country..

Frank Sinatra: Yap, yap, yap! Billy Idol!

Billy Idol: I think they're all a bunch of tight-assed old farts.

Frank Sinatra: Get a haircut. Luther Campbell!

Luther Campbell: Well, man I had my run-ins with censorship all year.

Frank Sinatra: Can't understand a word.

Luther Campbell: I said I was censored all year.

Frank Sinatra: You don't know what censored is, junior. Censored is being dumped by Columbia because Mitch Miller doesn't like the way your career is going. It's having million-dollar pipes and nowhere to play 'em. Am I right, Steve and Eydie?

Steve Lawrence: Yes, you are, Frank.

Eydie Gorme: Absolutely, Frank.

Frank Sinatra: You bet I am. Next issue: this crap with M-TV. With the nudity and all. What is this crap? Sinbad O'Connor.

Sinead O'Connor: Well, I think it's bloody awful. But it's typical of entertainment in a male-dominated society.

Frank Sinatra: Boo-hoo! You had me, and then you lost me! Billy Idol.

Billy Idol: I think it's great.

Frank Sinatra: Shut up! Luther Campbell.

Luther Campbell: Well, that's my bread and butter, man.

Frank Sinatra: Once more around, pal. Sounds like pops and buzzes from here.

Luther Campbell: I said, that's my bread and butter, man.
Frank Sinatra: No, you're wrong, schoolboy. You don't need to work blue! You'll never play the big rooms with that crap. Ask Redd Foxx. You don't need the blue stuff, kid, you got talent!

Luther Campbell: But I don't have talent.

Frank Sinatra: You've got it, kid. You listen to me - you've got a Ben Vereen quality, I can't put my finger on it. Take the high road, baby!

Luther Campbell: I swear, man, I don't have any talent. None! This is all I got. [ to Billy Idol ] Tell him, man.

Billy Idol: Yeah, he sucks!

Sinead O'Connor: He's not talented.

Frank Sinatra: No, Bob Goulet - that's not talented! You got talent! You got a Dionne Warwick/Falana kind of thing going. Steve and Eydie?

Eydie Gorme: Oh, you're right, Frank.

Steve Lawrence: Absolutely. He's great!

Frank Sinatra: Of course he is, you brownnoses. Look at you, you're just swimming in my wake. Issue number three: [ points to Sinead ] This bald chick - what's with her head? Let's start with the chick. What gives, cue ball? I'm looking at you, I'm thinking: fourteen in the side pocket!

Sinead O'Connor: I can't believe you're talking about my hair with all the bloody starvation and suffering in the world right now.

Frank Sinatra: Come on! Swing, baby, you're platinum! Billy Idol.

Billy Idol: I think she's really quite attractive.

Frank Sinatra: Check out his papers. Luther Campbell!

Billy Idol: You watch it, mate!

321 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:38:51pm

re: #313 ludwigvanquixote

There is only one possible response:

322 Stanghazi  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:39:01pm

re: #314 allegro

They killed my beloved Sheltie, my best buddy. This puts China at the top of my shit list forever.

The dog food contamination?

I am so sorry.

323 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:39:20pm

re: #304 Racer X

Yep.

Because taxes and labor costs here in America were preventing them from making the profits they were expected to deliver.

Bullshit. In your free market fantasy land, a corporation wouldn't need a tax credit to move a job overseas. They'd already be overseas.

324 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:39:20pm

re: #309 Olsonist

Good overview. Yes, in addition to Katrina there was also the housing bubble as well. Despite this, there is no reason to lower building standards. The law of supply and demand really does have two sides. We could have raised prices on quality drywall rather than lower standards and importing cheap crap. Could have.

Raising prices is helpful if you assume that demand is elastic. But for drywall, if your house was gutted by a hurricane, you need it, and you aren't a price-sensitive buyer. And if you are Toll Bros or Lennar putting up a zillion homes in FL, you would simply pass that cost along. But you wouldn't slow down your purchases: you have a production schedule to meet and a market to satisfy. Raising prices makes more money for USG, but it doesn't get you drywall any faster.

All of those guys were screaming at their suppliers to get them drywall on time.

325 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:39:51pm

re: #251 Olsonist

Do you have some citations for that? America is a pretty big country. New Orleans isn't that big a city.

Smells fishy.

Katrina destroyed a million homes in mississippi as well as the NO destruction; and also affected southern Alabama. Three weeks later Rita hit the other side of Louisiana and affected it and parts of Texas.

Federal disaster declarations covered 90,000 square miles of the United States, an area almost as large as the United Kingdom

This was unprecedented disaster. If you can't believe that no number of links will convince you.

326 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:39:51pm

re: #313 ludwigvanquixote

OK you should all know the truth about me:

I am not as I have often posted, a Zionist Lord of Remulak.

I am not even a physicist in the way you think.

I am actually a short Black woman from the year 2753 doing research for her dissertation in history.

You are lying. There is no shortness in 2753. Everybody is tall, thin and blue-skinned like the Na'vi.

327 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:39:54pm

Time for my weekend to begin. Have a good one, L's!

328 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:39:57pm

The conservative war on history marches on...
Some right-wingers ignore facts as they rewrite U.S. history

The most ballyhooed effort is under way in Texas , where conservatives have pushed the state school board to rewrite guidelines, downplaying Thomas Jefferson in one high school course, playing up such conservatives as Phyllis Schlafly and the Heritage Foundation and challenging the idea that the Founding Fathers wanted to separate church and state.

The effort reaches far beyond one state, however.

In articles and speeches, on radio and TV, conservatives are working to redefine major turning points and influential figures in American history, often to slam liberals, promote Republicans and reinforce their positions in today's politics.

The Jamestown settlers? Socialists. Founding Father Alexander Hamilton ? Ill-informed professors made up all that bunk about him advocating a strong central government.

Theodore Roosevelt ? Another socialist. Franklin D. Roosevelt ? Not only did he not end the Great Depression, he also created it.

Joe McCarthy ? Liberals lied about him. He was a hero.

It's worth reading the whole thing.

329 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:40:10pm

re: #313 ludwigvanquixote

And all this time, I thought you were from Avalon. Go figure.

330 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:40:30pm

re: #323 Olsonist

Bullshit. In your free market fantasy land, a corporation wouldn't need a tax credit to move a job overseas. They'd already be overseas.

OK then.

What is the solution to free market enterprise?

331 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:40:46pm

re: #309 Olsonist

Actually, if you look at construction costs, the demand and lack of supply did send prices through the roof. Construction costs skyrocketed. In some markets, price for steel, concrete, and other building materials have more than doubled (this article is from 2006, and prices rose higher from there).

332 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:40:47pm

re: #314 allegro

They killed my beloved Sheltie, my best buddy. This puts China at the top of my shit list forever.

Egads! I'm so sorry. How did that happen? (if you don't mind the question)

333 philosophus invidius  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:41:05pm

The "Restore America Plan" seems pretty popular at the ronpaulforums:
[Link: www.ronpaulforums.com...]

[Link: www.ronpaulforums.com...]

334 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:41:25pm

re: #309 Olsonist

Good overview. Yes, in addition to Katrina there was also the housing bubble as well. Despite this, there is no reason to lower building standards. The law of supply and demand really does have two sides. We could have raised prices on quality drywall rather than lower standards and importing cheap crap. Could have.


Some of us did. I worked for a local building company in Altanta (Post GP and pre Government) that used quality materials and built for much less than our competators by finding efficiencies in the building process. We were profitable and got sold to another company. They tried to make our margins with their own management and failed.

"There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person's lawful prey." -anon (misattrributed to John Ruskin)

335 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:42:25pm

re: #326 Alouette

Eh... .I'll have ascended by then.

336 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:42:44pm

re: #314 allegro

They killed my beloved Sheltie, my best buddy. This puts China at the top of my shit list forever.

Sorry to hear that. We lost a cat to bad imported food.

337 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:43:33pm

The Pittsburgh Press - Aug 10, 1928
Average pay of textile worker: $1025/year.

Hongruichantai China - 2010
Average pay of textile worker: $2,952/year.

Occupational Employment and Wages, May 2008
51-6099 Textile, Apparel, and Furnishings Workers, All Other

Median Annual Wage: $24,650.

Other salaries:

Services to Buildings and Dwellings: $28,970
Textile Furnishings Mills: $26,230
Other Textile Product Mills: $27,910
Cut and Sew Apparel Manufacturing: $23,080
Textile and Fabric Finishing and Fabric Coating Mills: $25,160

If we take the median annual wage of $24,650 and assume a total tax rate of 25% that results in $18,420/yr.

Then we have to consider cost of living in the United States as set by private or free-market forces which includes insurance rates, rent, mortgage, interest rates, etc.

Fruit of the Loom is owned by Berkshire Hathaway. There CEO is Warren Buffet. Mr. Buffet has a net worth of $47,000,000,000.

338 bosforus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:43:45pm

re: #320 rwdflynavy

...I'm looking at you, I'm thinking: fourteen in the side pocket!


Probably the funniest line from that skit.

339 allegro  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:43:58pm

re: #332 marjoriemoon

Egads! I'm so sorry. How did that happen? (if you don't mind the question)

Poisoned dog food, specifically melamine poisoned ingredients from China. Almost lost my Spaniel as well.

340 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:44:02pm

re: #336 DaddyG

Sorry to hear that. We lost a cat to bad imported food.

They massacred their own young people live in front of the international media. They won't ever get too moist and sniffly about our pets.

341 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:44:02pm

re: #324 garhighway

I like your explanation but I also like the Uniform Building Code sitting between me and this 'necessary' expediency.

342 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:44:23pm

re: #338 bosforus

Probably the funniest line from that skit.

I got chunks of guys like you in my stool!

343 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:44:34pm

re: #326 Alouette

You are lying. There is no shortness in 2753. Everybody is tall, thin and blue-skinned like the Na'vi.

Nahh that was a fashion fad that went out of style by 2740 or so. Right now, being green is in.

344 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:44:51pm

re: #339 allegro

Poisoned dog food, specifically melamine poisoned ingredients from China. Almost lost my Spaniel as well.

Bastards!

345 Political Atheist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:46:09pm

re: #344 ludwigvanquixote

The only "Chinese" product I want is the food, and that of course is from my neighborhood stir fry kitchen.

346 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:46:40pm

re: #336 DaddyG

Sorry to hear that. We lost a cat to bad imported food.

Ugh. I'm so sorry for both of you.

347 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:46:41pm

re: #337 Gus 802

The Pittsburgh Press - Aug 10, 1928
Average pay of textile worker: $1025/year.

Hongruichantai China - 2010
Average pay of textile worker: $2,952/year.

Occupational Employment and Wages, May 2008
51-6099 Textile, Apparel, and Furnishings Workers, All Other

Median Annual Wage: $24,650.

Other salaries:

Services to Buildings and Dwellings: $28,970
Textile Furnishings Mills: $26,230
Other Textile Product Mills: $27,910
Cut and Sew Apparel Manufacturing: $23,080
Textile and Fabric Finishing and Fabric Coating Mills: $25,160

If we take the median annual wage of $24,650 and assume a total tax rate of 25% that results in $18,420/yr.

Then we have to consider cost of living in the United States as set by private or free-market forces which includes insurance rates, rent, mortgage, interest rates, etc.

Fruit of the Loom is owned by Berkshire Hathaway. There CEO is Warren Buffet. Mr. Buffet has a net worth of $47,000,000,000.

Damn, 47 Billion. I think we can spread some of that around.

348 researchok  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:46:44pm

re: #300 marjoriemoon

Don't forget pet food, pharmaceutical bases and a host of other human consumables

349 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:47:38pm

re: #347 Racer X

Damn, 47 Billion. I think we can spread some of that around.

Yes. I'm sure you remember that Warren Buffet supported Barrack Obama in 2008.

350 allegro  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:48:02pm

re: #348 researchok

Don't forget pet food, pharmaceutical bases and a host of other human consumables

The melamine poisoned baby formula was particularly ghastly.

351 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:48:28pm

re: #349 Gus 802

Yes. I'm sure you remember that Warren Buffet supported Barrack Obama in 2008.

No Way!

352 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:48:52pm

re: #348 researchok

Don't forget pet food, pharmaceutical bases and a host of other human consumables

And it's not only their export products. There have been several clusters of deaths of Chinese infants from formula and milk tainted with melamine.

353 Bagua  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:48:52pm

re: #315 marjoriemoon

Nooo... she was speaking out against child abuse and I believe, racism, very specifically.

Sinéad was right
Ten years after ripping up a photo of the pope to protest sexual abuse in the Catholic Church -- and destroying her career -- Siniad O'Connor returns to talk about her new album of Irish folk, her kids and why she sympathizes with America.


I've come to talk to O'Connor today to discuss what almost no one seems to remember: She tore up that picture of the pope to protest pedophilia in the Catholic Church and the complicity of the church hierarchy

354 DaddyG  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:48:59pm

re: #330 Racer X

OK then.

What is the solution to free market enterprise?

Centralized control of all corrupt trade. It works in China.

355 researchok  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:49:16pm

re: #350 allegro

The melamine poisoned baby formula was particularly ghastly.


Yup. We 'overlooked' that because we need cheap products. Economic engines are also measured by bang for the buck.

In the end, you get what you pay for.

356 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:50:04pm

re: #354 DaddyG

Centralized control of all corrupt trade. It works in China.

Heh.

Clearly.

357 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:50:57pm

re: #355 researchok

Yup. We 'overlooked' that because we need cheap products. Economic engines are also measured by bang for the buck.

In the end, you get what you pay for.

Which is why whenever the GOP types here start trying to explain to us about cost and demand, like we are all foolish simpletons, the non-brainwahsed spend a lot of time talking about the actual costs of the deals.

358 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:51:05pm

re: #339 allegro

Poisoned dog food, specifically melamine poisoned ingredients from China. Almost lost my Spaniel as well.

I am so, so sorry. I can't imagine how terrible that must be.

359 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:51:19pm

re: #354 DaddyG

Centralized control of all corrupt trade. It works in China.

It works for Wallmart too.

360 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:51:25pm

re: #341 Olsonist

I like your explanation but I also like the Uniform Building Code sitting between me and this 'necessary' expediency.

Me, too.

But the code doesn't specify where the drywall has to come from. It simply specifies where you have to use it.

This wasn't a "building standards" problem. None of the builders (to my knowledge) were trying to cut corners or not build to code. They thought that drywall was drywall. Historically, the stuff has been a pretty generic product.

And for the most part, the big builders now are all doing the right thing and fixing the affected houses. And that is no cheap task: they have to rip out ALL the drywall, carpet, counters, and cabinets, replace the HVAC coils, replace the electrical receptacles, and they often replace the appliances. And pay to put the homeowner up in a hotel during the work.

Luckily, they have surplus labor right now, since they have almost no demand for new homes.

361 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:51:39pm

re: #349 Gus 802

Yes. I'm sure you remember that Warren Buffet supported Barrack Obama in 2008.

And Bill Gates, that hippie! :D

362 William of Orange  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:51:42pm

Gain, apologies to all the Michael Moore haters outhere, but again he has an explosive story on his website.

(The original story below.)

Climate scientists largely vindicated!

363 Shill  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:51:45pm

re: #266 Killgore Trout

Bullshit, Okeefe was given immunity in exchange for the unedited tapes. Everyone who has viewed the unedited tapes concludes that the videos Breitbart published were dishonestly edited. If ACORN was really that bad why does Breitbart have to lie?


Really?

Show me this footage, please. Or at least tell me which part of the unedited audio this footage corresponds with. I think you're claiming to have proof Breitbart lied. But I haven't seen any explanation of the lie short of 'show me proof that he didn't lie'.

I noted some aspects I think no context could possibly legalize. No editing could possibly be responsible for. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I cite the unedited raw audio, and ask what you're talking about, and all I get is that some partisan promises something exists but refuses to show it to me, I think I am winning this argument. I'm not asking for much here.

What sections (like which second does it start) of the unedited audio are you referring to as being cut to frame ACORN? Also, I just want to take a moment to condemn the practice of using racial slurs on blogs you don't like to frame those blogs as racist. I understand everyone makes mistakes, and I can respectfully dialogue with you despite your actions, Killgore, but I strongly condemn that kind of corrosive and divisive hatred.

I am quite sure you would agree, were it Breitbart doing that to ACORN.

364 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:51:58pm

re: #340 The Sanity Inspector

They massacred their own young people live in front of the international media. They won't ever get too moist and sniffly about our pets.

Or our children. Which leads to the main question: how do we manage all these imports from a country that has damn near no product control?

365 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:52:00pm

re: #325 reine.de.tout

I'm well aware of the scale of the disaster, thank you. Sorry, but the 1906 San Francisco earthquake was comparatively worse.

As I've already said, the rebuilding of NO (and Mississippi, ...) has taken years. There is no short term here.

366 researchok  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:52:15pm

re: #357 ludwigvanquixote

Which is why whenever the GOP types here start trying to explain to us about cost and demand, like we are all foolish simpletons, the non-brainwahsed spend a lot of time talking about the actual costs of the deals.

True, though to be fair, trade with China is not one dimensional. Also, rcall Clinton ramped up trade.

This stuff really is complex- lots of masters.

367 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:53:32pm

re: #352 ~Fianna

And it's not only their export products. There have been several clusters of deaths of Chinese infants from formula and milk tainted with melamine.

La Leche League would like to have a quiet word with Chinese moms...sometimes breast milk isn't only best, it's the only safe choice.

368 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:53:38pm

re: #363 Shill

Oh snap.

369 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:54:09pm

re: #363 Shill

Also, I just want to take a moment to condemn the practice of using racial slurs on blogs you don't like to frame those blogs as racist.

it wasn't framing, it was demonstrating their tolerance of racism.

But you're all ACORNTALKINGPOINT ACORNTALKINGPOINT ACORNTALKINGPOINT so we can see where your bread is buttered.

370 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:54:19pm

re: #365 Olsonist

I'm well aware of the scale of the disaster, thank you. Sorry, but the 1906 San Francisco earthquake was comparatively worse.

As I've already said, the rebuilding of NO (and Mississippi, ...) has taken years. There is no short term here.

Ah.
Sorry, your statement, as regards the Katrina devastation:

Do you have some citations for that? America is a pretty big country. New Orleans isn't that big a city.

confused me.

371 researchok  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:54:20pm

re: #364 SanFranciscoZionist

Or our children. Which leads to the main question: how do we manage all these imports from a country that has damn near no product control?

Import controls are the only real solutions.

372 Political Atheist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:54:28pm

re: #366 researchok

Every President since Nixon has pushed for free trade and free trade with China specifically. It appears to be a geo-strategic effort to co opt their economy. But whom is co opting whom?

373 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:54:58pm

re: #366 researchok

True, though to be fair, trade with China is not one dimensional. Also, rcall Clinton ramped up trade.

This stuff really is complex- lots of masters.

And since I have been fair on this all along, I have been clear that both parties were to blame.

374 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:55:27pm

re: #363 Shill

I'm sorry, the horse you seek to beat has long since turned to dust.

375 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:55:31pm

re: #372 Rightwingconspirator

Every President since Nixon has pushed for free trade and free trade with China specifically. It appears to be a geo-strategic effort to co opt their economy. But whom is co opting whom?

All those container ships heading back to China are not empty. OK, well some are, but not all.

376 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:55:34pm

re: #363 Shill

Really?

Show me this footage, please. Or at least tell me which part of the unedited audio this footage corresponds with. I think you're claiming to have proof Breitbart lied. But I haven't seen any explanation of the lie short of 'show me proof that he didn't lie'.

I noted some aspects I think no context could possibly legalize. No editing could possibly be responsible for. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I cite the unedited raw audio, and ask what you're talking about, and all I get is that some partisan promises something exists but refuses to show it to me, I think I am winning this argument. I'm not asking for much here.

What sections (like which second does it start) of the unedited audio are you referring to as being cut to frame ACORN? Also, I just want to take a moment to condemn the practice of using racial slurs on blogs you don't like to frame those blogs as racist. I understand everyone makes mistakes, and I can respectfully dialogue with you despite your actions, Killgore, but I strongly condemn that kind of corrosive and divisive hatred.

I am quite sure you would agree, were it Breitbart doing that to ACORN.

Congratulations.

You have the most accurately descriptive screen name of anyone here.

You should be proud.

377 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:55:47pm

re: #331 lawhawk

I remember the bubble only too well. They were giving ninja mortgages to people with no income and no jobs.

378 allegro  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:56:07pm

re: #358 SanFranciscoZionist

I am so, so sorry. I can't imagine how terrible that must be.

Losing a "kid" is always heartbreaking but easier to take when they die of a ripe, old age. Losing one like this while believing that you're doing the best for him - I was feeding him premium food, so I thought - is enraging and devastating beyond description. All for a few pennies of someone's profits.

379 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:56:08pm

re: #373 ludwigvanquixote

And since I have been fair on this all along, I have been clear that both parties were to blame.

Clinton did not exactly blow my doors off with his helping to deregulate the financial industry as well.

380 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:56:19pm

re: #367 SanFranciscoZionist

La Leche League would like to have a quiet word with Chinese moms...sometimes breast milk isn't only best, it's the only safe choice.

My understanding was that these infants were mostly poor women from very poor districts. It's hard to breast-feed when you're working in a factory 14 hours a day.

Not to mention who the heck knows what toxins are in the mother's bodies. I'm not sure that women in those kinds of environments are capable of producing non-toxic anything.

The working conditions of everyone in China are pretty terrible. It's generally worse for the kinds of jobs that women do since they're often doing the fine finishing work - painting toys with all that lead-based paint, for example.

381 Locker  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:56:21pm

re: #376 garhighway

Congratulations.

You have the most accurately descriptive screen name of anyone here.

You should be proud.

Ahaha! Nice on mate.

382 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:56:39pm

re: #374 Varek Raith

I'm sorry, the horse you seek to beat has long since turned to dust.

Hee!

I will be saving this one and unleashing it on unsuspecting adversaries on other forums :D

383 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:57:20pm

re: #382 WindUpBird

Hee!

I will be saving this one and unleashing it on unsuspecting adversaries on other forums :D

:)

384 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:57:26pm

re: #363 Shill

Show me this footage, please.


The only people to have seen the footage are several state prosecutors who have all so far concluded they were dishonestly edited and ACORN eployees did not commit crimes. It's a well documented fact.

385 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:57:35pm

re: #361 WindUpBird

And Bill Gates, that hippie! :D

Yes. I'm sure the irony is lost on some people.

I think the answer is simple. Corporate profits sometimes have to be sacrificed for community and I would call patriotic needs. As we can see in the case of Berkshire Hathaway and others those profits have reached historic levels. CEOs, even those that drive corporations into the ground, are demanding compensation that was unheard of during the height of American industry.

386 researchok  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:58:46pm

re: #373 ludwigvanquixote

And since I have been fair on this all along, I have been clear that both parties were to blame.

Oh yes, to be sure- you've been clear.

What often gets left out of the conversation is the deal with the devil both banks and unions have made re facilitating trade. Also, China now controls a whole lot of natural resources here in North America. Unions get high wages to maintain the status quo (mining, e.g) and banks make a killing on bridge financing and Letters of Credit.

And the list goes on. How to fix it- I haven't got a clue.

Foreign trade with China now has a life of it's own.

387 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:59:03pm

re: #330 Racer X

OK then.

What is the solution to free market enterprise?

First, there ain't no such thing as a free market. Second, the problem here isn't lemonade stand competition; it's corporate lobbying.

388 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:59:38pm

re: #378 allegro

Losing a "kid" is always heartbreaking but easier to take when they die of a ripe, old age. Losing one like this while believing that you're doing the best for him - I was feeding him premium food, so I thought - is enraging and devastating beyond description. All for a few pennies of someone's profits.

Nutro?

We got really really lucky. One of our cats vomited for a while, but testing didn't turn anything up and it cleared up as soon as we switched to Trader Joe's food.

I don't normally plug companies, but TJ's rocked during all of that. Their food is not made with anything that was implicated, but they paid for independent testing of their pet food and made the lab results available to anyone who wanted them - they were both on the web and in paper copies by the pet food display and in the manager's booth for anyone who wanted them.

We feed all 5 kids TJ's food now.

389 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:59:50pm

re: #385 Gus 802

Yes. I'm sure the irony is lost on some people.

I think the answer is simple. Corporate profits sometimes have to be sacrificed for community and I would call patriotic needs. As we can see in the case of Berkshire Hathaway and others those profits have reached historic levels. CEOs, even those that drive corporations into the ground, are demanding compensation that was unheard of during the height of American industry.

You are right about many CEOs, but doesn't Buffett take a pretty modest salary and instead make his money by watching the value of his holdings increase?

I think he is sort of the anti-CEO when it comes to compensation.

390 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:01:56pm

re: #389 garhighway

You are right about many CEOs, but doesn't Buffett take a pretty modest salary and instead make his money by watching the value of his holdings increase?

I think he is sort of the anti-CEO when it comes to compensation.

He is. He also doesn't do the whole lifestyles of the rich and famous thing, either. He drives an older-model pickup and doesn't make the tabloid scene.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Buffett.

391 Shill  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:02:12pm

re: #226 prairiefire

What is ACORN, exactly?

ACORN is, in my opinion, an effort to get democrats elected via any means necessary. It was founded by a member (Wade Rathke) of the infamously insane SDS. SDS branched into the Weathermen terrorists. Notorious for its dozens of election fraud guilty convictions and guilty pleas, as well as being kicked out of states entirely, ACORN is also famous for submitting thousands of phony voter registrations just before the deadline in swing districts and for several occasions of actual false votes being cast.

They also are responsible for many fraudulent mortgage applications and involvement with cities suffering from a lot of crime. I am sure there is some sincere effort to help groups seen as disadvantaged get into a house, and get more involved with politics, but like any sophisticated criminal enterprise, it's easy to believe the legit aspects are a front.

I think a lot of the reasoning that this blog has used to condemn people for their relationship with racial supremacists (and I think some of that reasoning is pretty fair, though some isn't) could be applied to ACORN. If an organization was founded by that European guy who hates Muslims (I can't remember who he is, but this blog has a problem with him and you all probably know who), you would not find that organization to be legitimate.

ACORN was founded by a really whacko organization. They have had numerous run-ins with the law. I think anything associated with the Weathermen is simply outside reasonable people's trust.

But the real answer to your question is that ACORN has shut down their national operation and is now a dying relic not worth any efforts to whitewash. They are a major liability. Most democrats love justice, want to see honesty, and have no time for operations like ACORN. I encourage those of you who are liberal to realize I am not attempting to be a partisan, or attack ACORN because they supposedly help black people (I would feel the same way about this if there was no racial aspect, just as the TEA party would oppose Obamacare were Obama a white man).

This is something we can all agree on! Let's do that. You all saw the videos, and you all know some of that stuff simply can't be put into an acceptable context. If someone can actually show me video that does, then please do, but until then, it's obvious ACORN is extremely harmful to our communities.

392 allegro  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:02:19pm

re: #388 ~Fianna

We feed all 5 kids TJ's food now.

I've heard praise for it from others as well. I cook for my kid now. No way will I EVER feed him commercial pet food products.

393 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:02:27pm

re: #380 ~Fianna

My understanding was that these infants were mostly poor women from very poor districts. It's hard to breast-feed when you're working in a factory 14 hours a day.

Not to mention who the heck knows what toxins are in the mother's bodies. I'm not sure that women in those kinds of environments are capable of producing non-toxic anything.

The working conditions of everyone in China are pretty terrible. It's generally worse for the kinds of jobs that women do since they're often doing the fine finishing work - painting toys with all that lead-based paint, for example.

This is the kind of thing that gets me talking like Clara Lemlich.

394 palomino  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:03:11pm

re: #223 Shill

You ask: why is this a partisan issue?

Have you noticed right-wing discourse over the last two years? ACORN has become an integral part of the simplistic sloganeering repeated ad nauseum by the tea partiers: "Chicago style politics", "thugocracy", "radical socialist Marxist Kenyan agenda", "birth certificate", "teleprompter", whatever, the list of lunacy goes on and on.

ACORN the organization had real problems. But "ACORN!!!" is used as just another inarticulate smear, a rallying cry by folks who are really pissed off but not really sure why.

395 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:03:55pm

re: #385 Gus 802

Yes. I'm sure the irony is lost on some people.

I think the answer is simple. Corporate profits sometimes have to be sacrificed for community and I would call patriotic needs. As we can see in the case of Berkshire Hathaway and others those profits have reached historic levels. CEOs, even those that drive corporations into the ground, are demanding compensation that was unheard of during the height of American industry.

Yupyupyupyupyup

And then people vote against their interests and allow a small group of people to exploit the fact that nobody is watching them, move money around in ways that nobody understands, sell loans to people with no ability to pay, and with no oversight for so long, you have all of these disasters. Unregulated mortgage lending, unregulated credit markets. Some clever guy got his, and screw the country, screw entire neighborhoods that are becoming ghost towns, screw peoples' property values cratering, screw abandoned exurbs, screw banks folding that the FDIC has to prop up. That guy got his, and got out!

I am pro home ownership, and I am pro-very-strict-rules-on-mortgage-lending and banks knowing the note they're holding. Real estate IS our country, and we should treat it as such.

396 Slap  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:03:57pm

re: #320 rwdflynavy

Oh, man -- that sketch had one of the funniest lines I've ever heard, when Hartman's Sinatra turns to Sting's Billy Idol and says "I got chunks of guys like you in my stool."

Odd, but it still cracks me up.

397 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:04:03pm

re: #394 palomino

Because of ACORN!!11!11

398 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:04:51pm

re: #388 ~Fianna

Nutro?

We got really really lucky. One of our cats vomited for a while, but testing didn't turn anything up and it cleared up as soon as we switched to Trader Joe's food.

I don't normally plug companies, but TJ's rocked during all of that. Their food is not made with anything that was implicated, but they paid for independent testing of their pet food and made the lab results available to anyone who wanted them - they were both on the web and in paper copies by the pet food display and in the manager's booth for anyone who wanted them.

We feed all 5 kids TJ's food now.

Trader Joe's has also consistently refused to knuckle under to anti-Israel activists who want to take their made-in-Israel products off the shelves. They do not budge, and they have often responded by creating nice displays of their Israeli-made goods so that counter-activists can easily find the Dorot garlic cubes and the Israeli cous-cous. They're the only source of fresh kosher meat in my neighborhood.

They are very good, also, about advertising any recalls they may have.

They are an excellent company.

399 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:05:09pm

re: #378 allegro

Losing a "kid" is always heartbreaking but easier to take when they die of a ripe, old age. Losing one like this while believing that you're doing the best for him - I was feeding him premium food, so I thought - is enraging and devastating beyond description. All for a few pennies of someone's profits.

I have two pups that I love more than I could easily express. I know exactly what you mean about looking for premium food and trying one's best for them. You were lied to. You did your best. It is not your fault and yes they were fuckers who did that.

For a while, when I heard about the scare, I wouldn't buy the boys anything from the store and only fed them a raw diet. Lol, they sure loved that, but I really can't afford to feed them like I would feed humans.

Which brand was it that your pets ate ate if I may ask?

400 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:05:13pm

re: #330 Racer X

OK then.

What is the solution to free market enterprise?

Do you believe that America's financial and corporate policies should benefit Americans first? Or investors and multinational corporations first, who may be from anywhere on the globe?

401 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:05:49pm

re: #397 Varek Raith

Because of ACORN!!11!11

HAY I HEARD OF THIS THING THE OTHER DAY

402 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:05:56pm

re: #390 ~Fianna

He is. He also doesn't do the whole lifestyles of the rich and famous thing, either. He drives an older-model pickup and doesn't make the tabloid scene.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Buffett.

I read Too Big To Fail by Andrew Sorkin. (Good book.) In it, there's a part where AIG tries to sell one of it's subs to Buffett. They call him on Friday evening, and he says they should send him the info to review. They ask him for an e-mail address, and he laughs and says he doesn't have a computer at home. They ask for a fax number and he laughs and says he doesn't have a fax machine at home either. He ends up agreeing to get back in the truck, drive to the office and pick up the fax there.

He is a different kind of CEO.

403 Locker  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:06:22pm

re: #394 palomino

You ask: why is this a partisan issue?

Have you noticed right-wing discourse over the last two years? ACORN has become an integral part of the simplistic sloganeering repeated ad nauseum by the tea partiers: "Chicago style politics", "thugocracy", "radical socialist Marxist Kenyan agenda", "birth certificate", "teleprompter", whatever, the list of lunacy goes on and on.

ACORN the organization had real problems. But "ACORN!!!" is used as just another inarticulate smear, a rallying cry by folks who are really pissed off but not really sure why.

It's not the right-wing's fault you know. It's the SEIU thugs who are responsible for all of this drama including the cancellation of My So Called Life. Jerks!

404 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:06:26pm

Ice, you're still here? My hubby wanted to compliment you on your Mad Fallout Skillz. He was muy impressed :)

405 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:06:56pm

re: #400 WindUpBird

Do you believe that America's financial and corporate policies should benefit Americans first? Or investors and multinational corporations first, who may be from anywhere on the globe?

Damn, tough question. Can I think about it and get back to you?

;-)

406 KingKenrod  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:07:10pm

re: #384 Killgore Trout

The only people to have seen the footage are several state prosecutors who have all so far concluded they were dishonestly edited and ACORN eployees did not commit crimes. It's a well documented fact.

Well it's too bad O'Keefe got immunity for providing the tapes. I still can't understand why ACORN gave up their civil suit against O'Keefe.

407 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:07:21pm

re: #404 marjoriemoon

Ice, you're still here? My hubby wanted to compliment you on your Mad Fallout Skillz. He was muy impressed :)

Oh? What kind of skillz?

408 Stanghazi  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:07:28pm

re: #401 WindUpBird

HAY I HEARD OF THIS THING THE OTHER DAY

Got it in my email!

409 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:07:45pm

re: #389 garhighway

You are right about many CEOs, but doesn't Buffett take a pretty modest salary and instead make his money by watching the value of his holdings increase?

I think he is sort of the anti-CEO when it comes to compensation.

As far as CEO compensation he does get a modest salary of a little over $500,000 per year. However, he does lead Berkshire Hathaway who own Fruit of the Loom who's subsidiaries have moved their production to Honduran facilities.

I suppose there might be better examples to prove the point.

The Honduran Fruit of the Loom workers have been organizing however:

Honduran Union sign historic agreement with Fruit of the Loom/Russell

In a couple of decades they will no longer be able to find substandard wages and working environments to sustain the extravagant lifestyles of the corporate elite. It would be ironic that in the end the remaining industrial environment left in the globe that can sustain the corporate bourgeois would be the People's Republic of China.

Communist labor helps keep capitalists wealthy. Film @ 11.

410 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:07:52pm

re: #405 Racer X

Damn, tough question. Can I think about it and get back to you?

;-)

I like markets! I like them regulated and orderly, like America's roads.

411 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:07:53pm

re: #380 ~Fianna

My understanding was that these infants were mostly poor women from very poor districts. It's hard to breast-feed when you're working in a factory 14 hours a day.

Not to mention who the heck knows what toxins are in the mother's bodies. I'm not sure that women in those kinds of environments are capable of producing non-toxic anything.

The working conditions of everyone in China are pretty terrible. It's generally worse for the kinds of jobs that women do since they're often doing the fine finishing work - painting toys with all that lead-based paint, for example.

I hope everyone re-reads what she wrote and puts it into context. This is what we got for happily funding labor in a nation with no care for its workers.

So seriously, next time you buy some cheap stuff from wall mart, slap yourself on the back for helping to create that situation.

Really and in complete truth, starving mothers and dead babies are part of the value added to the purchase.

412 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:08:05pm

re: #408 Stanley Sea

Got it in my email!

It must be true!

413 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:08:07pm

"I do think that everybody has a responsibility — Democrats or Republicans — to tone down some of this rhetoric, some of these comments. …It used to be that someone who said something crazy, they might be saying it to their next door neighbor or it might be on some late night AM station at the very end of the radio dial and now with the blogs, it ends up getting a lot more attention and you guys end up covering it a lot more. It's not as if there haven't been a lot of crazy things said out and about over the years, it's just that it gets much more magnified much more quickly."

Like I have said in the before, this crazy has always been out there, it's just that it has become a political football, much easier to for the crazies to use for there benefit and much easier for the right or the left to use as a tactic to shut down their opponents.

We should take the advice above and tone this all down.

414 palomino  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:08:36pm

re: #403 Locker

It's not the right-wing's fault you know. It's the SEIU thugs who are responsible for all of this drama including the cancellation of My So Called Life. Jerks!

It's just amazing how the unions, which only comprise about 15% of all US workers today, control everything. Poor multinational corps.--just can't catch a break.

415 Locker  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:09:33pm

re: #403 Locker

Thank you SFZ and Stanley Sea. You just brought my karma up to level with my post count. It's a miracle!

416 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:10:18pm

re: #415 Locker

DING! Have another!

417 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:10:30pm

re: #415 Locker

Thank you SFZ and Stanley Sea. You just brought my karma up to level with my post count. It's a miracle!

1:1 ratio, huzzah!

418 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:10:44pm

re: #414 palomino

It's just amazing how the unions, which only comprise about 15% of all US workers today, control everything. Poor multinational corps.--just can't catch a break.

Chop that in half. Of those 15% about 7.5% are in the private sector. The other in the public sector.

419 Stanghazi  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:10:44pm

re: #415 Locker

Thank you SFZ and Stanley Sea. You just brought my karma up to level with my post count. It's a miracle!

I'm a giver!

420 allegro  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:10:58pm

re: #399 ludwigvanquixote

For a while, when I heard about the scare, I wouldn't buy the boys anything from the store and only fed them a raw diet. Lol, they sure loved that, but I really can't afford to feed them like I would feed humans.

Which brand was it that your pets ate ate if I may ask?

It was Nutro. Feeding your boys real food, i.e. human grade, isn't more costly. In fact, I think it's actually less expensive but it does take more time to cook. I get chicken, beef, and turkey on special. Add some brown rice and veggies (though my kid will NOT eat a green bean) and a bit of bone meal. My Spaniel has a gleaming coat, sparkling eyes, and is healthy as can be now.

421 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:11:15pm

re: #414 palomino

It's just amazing how the unions, which only comprise about 15% of all US workers today, control everything. Poor multinational corps.--just can't catch a break.

Unions + ACORN = 215% of our nation's problems.

It's science.

422 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:11:59pm

re: #421 garhighway

Unions + ACORN = 215% of our nation's problems.

It's science Fox News Math!

FTFY

423 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:13:25pm

re: #392 allegro

I've heard praise for it from others as well. I cook for my kid now. No way will I EVER feed him commercial pet food products.

I looked in to doing that. For the dog it would be easy. Cats, though, have some nutritional issues that are difficult to meet and would require supplements to ensure that they're getting the right nutrition. It's easier and probably better for them to stick to a good brand of commercial stuff.

We had a long talk about doing it, though, but our vet talked us out of it.

424 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:13:25pm

re: #407 Varek Raith

Oh? What kind of skillz?

Varek, here. Ain't she the cutest thing??

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

425 researchok  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:13:29pm

re: #413 Walter L. Newton

"I do think that everybody has a responsibility — Democrats or Republicans — to tone down some of this rhetoric, some of these comments. …It used to be that someone who said something crazy, they might be saying it to their next door neighbor or it might be on some late night AM station at the very end of the radio dial and now with the blogs, it ends up getting a lot more attention and you guys end up covering it a lot more. It's not as if there haven't been a lot of crazy things said out and about over the years, it's just that it gets much more magnified much more quickly."

Like I have said in the before, this crazy has always been out there, it's just that it has become a political football, much easier to for the crazies to use for there benefit and much easier for the right or the left to use as a tactic to shut down their opponents.

We should take the advice above and tone this all down.

The problem isn't the rhetoric- we have a great tradition of inflammatory rhetoric that has led to great progress and reform. The problem now that there are those who believe rhetoric is a license to violent behavior. For the moment, most of the whack jobs are on the right. There were times (and will be again) where the violence will come from the left.

The problem is not the rhetoric- it is the groups who believe their ideas are a license to commit violence 'on behalf of (insert cause de jour here)'

426 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:13:50pm

re: #414 palomino

It's just amazing how the unions, which only comprise about 15% of all US workers today, control everything. Poor multinational corps.--just can't catch a break.


Won't somebody think of the GlomCos?

427 BlackFedora  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:15:29pm

In my most paranoid thoughts.....

These knuckle draggers manage to sway high ranking military officers and attempt some sort of coup and remove Obama from office. However.... this is not some banana republic but then there is that Oath Keeper craziness.... just sayin'

428 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:16:05pm

re: #393 SanFranciscoZionist

This is the kind of thing that gets me talking like Clara Lemlich.

Me too.

Women's issues have a lot of influence on my geopolitical view. I was and am a HUGE supporter of the Afghanistan military mission because if we pull out women will die, something which is ignored by far too many people on the left.

429 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:16:10pm

I'm now totally confused. Again.

Are corporations all greedy and evil, along with Warren Buffet and Rockefeller and all those other gabillionaires? Or do a lot of us get our income and livelihood from said evil corporations and maybe they aren't all that bad after all?

Cause I really need someone to hate on now that Obama is all cool and stuff.

430 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:16:27pm

re: #363 Shill

Really?

Show me this footage, please. Or at least tell me which part of the unedited audio this footage corresponds with. I think you're claiming to have proof Breitbart lied. But I haven't seen any explanation of the lie short of 'show me proof that he didn't lie'.

I noted some aspects I think no context could possibly legalize. No editing could possibly be responsible for. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I cite the unedited raw audio, and ask what you're talking about, and all I get is that some partisan promises something exists but refuses to show it to me, I think I am winning this argument. I'm not asking for much here.

What sections (like which second does it start) of the unedited audio are you referring to as being cut to frame ACORN? Also, I just want to take a moment to condemn the practice of using racial slurs on blogs you don't like to frame those blogs as racist. I understand everyone makes mistakes, and I can respectfully dialogue with you despite your actions, Killgore, but I strongly condemn that kind of corrosive and divisive hatred.

I am quite sure you would agree, were it Breitbart doing that to ACORN.

Shill! OMG! I am so glad you are here! You are actually James Jr's great great grand father!

Would you mind if I ask you a few questions?

It is for my dissertation! Please just a few....

1. First, why is that you believe that brown people are lying when they say your satire offends them?

2. Does taking their feelings into account diminish your rights to freely hate them?

3. Do you actually think that brown people are all in a conspiracy to "blow things out of proportion and lie about things that never happened" in order to keep white folks like you down, or do you just consider that a convenient
way to cover your racism?

4. Is it that you are not a racist at all per-se, and you really just will get in the face of and lie about anyone who is not a right winger in the meanest way possible, and it turns out that racial slurs are particularly hurtful, so you use those because those libtards deserve it?

431 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:16:49pm

re: #411 ludwigvanquixote

I hope everyone re-reads what she wrote and puts it into context. This is what we got for happily funding labor in a nation with no care for its workers.

So seriously, next time you buy some cheap stuff from wall mart, slap yourself on the back for helping to create that situation.

Really and in complete truth, starving mothers and dead babies are part of the value added to the purchase.

I have a confession to make:

I bought my Rock Band 1 set from Walmart, because they had it at midnight on release, and nowhere else in oregon did!

And I bought some windshield wipers and Rain-X when I was driving from SF to Portland, at a Walmart that was open all night in some tiny nowhere NorCal town off I-5, because mine were shot and it was raining. :D

432 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:17:19pm

I'm trying to figure out if I should send a resume in for this third grade position at one of the Catholic schools in the City. They want a practicing Catholic, but, well, you can't always get what you want.

433 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:17:28pm

re: #423 ~Fianna

I looked in to doing that. For the dog it would be easy. Cats, though, have some nutritional issues that are difficult to meet and would require supplements to ensure that they're getting the right nutrition. It's easier and probably better for them to stick to a good brand of commercial stuff.

We had a long talk about doing it, though, but our vet talked us out of it.

We buy the pup Taste of the Wild (grain free). She has a grain allergy which is in all supermarket dog food. She chews herself bloody otherwise. It saved her skin. It's $25 a bag, pretty large bag.

434 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:17:44pm

re: #433 marjoriemoon

We buy the pup Taste of the Wild (grain free). She has a grain allergy which is in all supermarket dog food. She chews herself bloody otherwise. It saved her skin. It's $25 a bag, pretty large bag.

[Link: www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com...]

435 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:18:26pm

re: #398 SanFranciscoZionist

Trader Joe's has also consistently refused to knuckle under to anti-Israel activists who want to take their made-in-Israel products off the shelves. They do not budge, and they have often responded by creating nice displays of their Israeli-made goods so that counter-activists can easily find the Dorot garlic cubes and the Israeli cous-cous. They're the only source of fresh kosher meat in my neighborhood.

They are very good, also, about advertising any recalls they may have.

They are an excellent company.

They're also good citizens in terms of labor. They pay well and treat their employees well.

We do a lot of our shopping there. Good products at a good price.

My only gripe is that they use a lot of corn syrup in their house-brand stuff.

And their Israeli cous-cous is really yummy. That's a staple product here.

436 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:18:39pm

re: #432 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm trying to figure out if I should send a resume in for this third grade position at one of the Catholic schools in the City. They want a practicing Catholic, but, well, you can't always get what you want.

Depends on what they want Catholics to practice these days

437 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:18:41pm

re: #420 allegro

It was Nutro. Feeding your boys real food, i.e. human grade, isn't more costly. In fact, I think it's actually less expensive but it does take more time to cook. I get chicken, beef, and turkey on special. Add some brown rice and veggies (though my kid will NOT eat a green bean) and a bit of bone meal. My Spaniel has a gleaming coat, sparkling eyes, and is healthy as can be now.

Over Pesach, they are back to a very similar diet to the one you have yours on. I try my best to supplement their diets that way year round in general. I run into the issue of storing non-kosher meat in my home though and I really can not afford kosher meat for my dogs.

438 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:19:23pm

re: #429 Racer X

Your confusion is rooted in your either/or fallacy.

439 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:19:33pm

re: #432 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm trying to figure out if I should send a resume in for this third grade position at one of the Catholic schools in the City. They want a practicing Catholic, but, well, you can't always get what you want.

Well you can always point out that the chances of you molesting the boys is very low!

440 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:19:34pm

re: #431 WindUpBird

I have a confession to make:

I bought my Rock Band 1 set from Walmart, because they had it at midnight on release, and nowhere else in oregon did!

And I bought some windshield wipers and Rain-X when I was driving from SF to Portland, at a Walmart that was open all night in some tiny nowhere NorCal town off I-5, because mine were shot and it was raining. :D

Well, it's evident that you should not have done that and you are adding to the problem. Bad Windup Bird.

441 researchok  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:19:36pm

re: #432 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm trying to figure out if I should send a resume in for this third grade position at one of the Catholic schools in the City. They want a practicing Catholic, but, well, you can't always get what you want.

Tell 'em you'll willing to practice but not quite ready to commit.

442 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:20:03pm

re: #428 ~Fianna


Me too.

Women's issues have a lot of influence on my geopolitical view. I was and am a HUGE supporter of the Afghanistan military mission because if we pull out women will die, something which is ignored by far too many people on the left.

That's not really true. Feminist.org has been real active in the plight to save Afghan women for at least the last 15 years.

443 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:20:08pm

Fever Swamp update:
Has the New Civil War Already Begun? (This is a "vanity" post, written by the posting member rather than copied from another source)

Many said that passing CommieCare was the first shot. Since then, the division has been ratcheted up by a factor of 10. Dims are either cowering or spewing the most vaporous of accusations. Race cards played left and right. Bricks hurled. Shots fired. Threats galore. Increasingly shameful media instigation.

Seeing this blatant race towards Socialism, I don't see any way of avoiding all-out domestic conflict. And, to me, the battle lines will be drawn between unions (small u) and the rest of us.

It hasn't been too long, a couple of years at most, since Freeper mods would have deleted this kind of inflammatory rhetoric as soon as it appeared. It's not only staying this time, it is getting a good reception.

444 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:20:19pm

re: #402 garhighway

I read Too Big To Fail by Andrew Sorkin. (Good book.) In it, there's a part where AIG tries to sell one of it's subs to Buffett. They call him on Friday evening, and he says they should send him the info to review. They ask him for an e-mail address, and he laughs and says he doesn't have a computer at home. They ask for a fax number and he laughs and says he doesn't have a fax machine at home either. He ends up agreeing to get back in the truck, drive to the office and pick up the fax there.

He is a different kind of CEO.

What was your overall impression of Sorkin's book? That's been on my list of things to read.

I also really want to pick up Michael Lewis' new book on the short sellers. I heard him interviewed and it sounded really interesting.

445 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:21:00pm

re: #429 Racer X

I'm now totally confused. Again.

Are corporations all greedy and evil, along with Warren Buffet and Rockefeller and all those other gabillionaires? Or do a lot of us get our income and livelihood from said evil corporations and maybe they aren't all that bad after all?

Cause I really need someone to hate on now that Obama is all cool and stuff.

I think of corporations as like wild animals. They should be in zoos, so that we may benefit from them under controlled conditions. ;-)

They're not evil, they're large groups of people that act in self-interest. it's like calling the weather evil. They are what they are, and there must be pressure on them from government to force them to act in explicitly ethical ways. (like say, not poisoning groundwater or manipulating energy markets)

Obviously liberal rhetoric gets hairy and inflammatory about this, but it's like, we're talking about people! Lots of people acting in concert to make money can do terrible things, not because they're evil, but because they're all doing a thing which has bad consequences.

446 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:21:29pm

re: #438 Olsonist

Your confusion is rooted in your either/or fallacy.

I think he's sorta being sarcastic?

447 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:22:43pm

re: #439 ludwigvanquixote

Well you can always point out that the chances of you molesting the boys is very low!

Yeah...it's usually not a good idea to bring up child molesting in your first contact with a new school.

And given the number of cases where female teachers have gotten involved with their male middle-school students over the past few years, that's not as much a given as it once might have been.

448 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:23:27pm

re: #314 allegro

They killed my beloved Sheltie, my best buddy. This puts China at the top of my shit list forever.

So very sorry to hear that, allegro.

449 garhighway  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:23:48pm

re: #444 ~Fianna

What was your overall impression of Sorkin's book? That's been on my list of things to read.

I also really want to pick up Michael Lewis' new book on the short sellers. I heard him interviewed and it sounded really interesting.

It's a great read. I wonder about just how true it is, because to really know some of the stuff he reports on, he would have to have some absolutely kick-ass sources. But it seems right, and it's a fun read.

450 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:23:53pm

re: #404 marjoriemoon

Ice, you're still here? My hubby wanted to compliment you on your Mad Fallout Skillz. He was muy impressed :)

She's off doing some reading just now, but I'm here for a few mins before we head out. I made that video to illustrate the folly of repeated wingnut attempts to take ice-ski down:D

Private Contract: Kill Iceweasel

Boys and Girls, we've got ourselves another holier-than-thou white knight needs putting down. Here are the details:

Name: Iceweasel
Race: Caucasian
Sex: female

The bounty is 1000 caps this time around. And, for a change of pace, they want the head this time.

451 allegro  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:23:56pm

re: #423 ~Fianna

I looked in to doing that. For the dog it would be easy. Cats, though, have some nutritional issues that are difficult to meet and would require supplements to ensure that they're getting the right nutrition. It's easier and probably better for them to stick to a good brand of commercial stuff.

We had a long talk about doing it, though, but our vet talked us out of it.

It is easier for dogs, for sure. I had that conversation with my vet, too. Then I told him about the horrific crap that is in a lot of commercial pets foods. Now, he cooks for his dogs, too. heh

452 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:23:58pm

re: #445 WindUpBird

I think of corporations as like wild animals. They should be in zoos, so that we may benefit from them under controlled conditions. ;-)

They're not evil, they're large groups of people that act in self-interest. it's like calling the weather evil. They are what they are, and there must be pressure on them from government to force them to act in explicitly ethical ways. (like say, not poisoning groundwater or manipulating energy markets)

Obviously liberal rhetoric gets hairy and inflammatory about this, but it's like, we're talking about people! Lots of people acting in concert to make money can do terrible things, not because they're evil, but because they're all doing a thing which has bad consequences.

So, it's ok if you shop at Walmart as long as you have the right understanding that not all these people working there are evil?

453 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:24:05pm

re: #429 Racer X

I'm now totally confused. Again.

Are corporations all greedy and evil, along with Warren Buffet and Rockefeller and all those other gabillionaires? Or do a lot of us get our income and livelihood from said evil corporations and maybe they aren't all that bad after all?

Cause I really need someone to hate on now that Obama is all cool and stuff.

I didn't say they were evil. I don't argue against greed. But there are limits. Production leaving this country in the name of pure profits has only added to the problems we face today.

The excuse that now people can buy stuff at Mega Lo Mart because they can afford it doesn't wash. Factory workers in the United States used to be able to buy washing machines, and hard goods produced within our shores.

454 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:24:07pm

re: #424 marjoriemoon

I LOVE that in Fallout you can dress up as a fancy 50's housewife and kick ass. It's the greatest. :D

455 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:24:41pm

re: #450 Jimmah

[Video]

Should've used a mini-nuke.
;)

456 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:24:57pm

re: #450 Jimmah

It was great. We enjoyed it :)

457 Christopher Luebcke  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:25:22pm

I was also wondering about "de jure grand juries". I still don't know what it's supposed to mean (though I think it might be something to do with being instantly found guilty by a flash mob), but I did find this helpful bucket of batshit craziness:

de jure grand juries : Dr.Sam Kennedy

I especially like the disclaimer at the end:

"FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY – NOT LEGAL ADVICE."

458 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:26:55pm

Wait shill let me explain again,

I am actually a short black woman from the year 2753 doing research for her dissertation in history. My thesis is called "How stupidity caused the decline of Empires, a study of the collapse of America."

I was born in the nice beach front town of Laurel MD. Well you would have called it Laurel. The Protectorate calls it New Washington.

Now this is important...

In 2251, the last Republican died in the Cincinnati zoo. James Jr as he liked to be called, was very comfortable. He was given an endless stream of Robot humanoid simulacrums with brown skin to abuse in his habitat. His last words were "It was satire damn it! Why don't those darkies get that!"

OK James Jr. is the reason I cam back to this time to do my research!

You are his great great grandfather.

So really please I need to ask your opinions about things. They really really do matter to me.

So here they are again:

It is for my dissertation! Please just a few...

1. First, why is that you believe that brown people are lying when they say your satire offends them?

2. Does taking their feelings into account diminish your rights to freely hate them?

3. Do you actually think that brown people are all in a conspiracy to "blow things out of proportion and lie about things that never happened" in order to keep white folks like you down, or do you just consider that a convenient
way to cover your racism?

4. Is it that you are not a racist at all per-se, and you really just will get in the face of and lie about anyone who is not a right winger in the meanest way possible, and it turns out that racial slurs are particularly hurtful, so you use those because those libtards deserve it?

459 Gus  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:26:59pm

BTW, Wal-Mart doesn't represent production. Wal-Mart is retail/service. They're just a bi-product or symptom of the loss of production.

460 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:27:12pm

re: #455 Varek Raith

Should've used a mini-nuke.
;)

Those were Talon Company Mercs - yep - mini nukes next time :)

461 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:27:17pm

re: #454 WindUpBird

I LOVE that in Fallout you can dress up as a fancy 50's housewife and kick ass. It's the greatest. :D

I haven't played it yet. Mr. Moon went through it and the add-ons. I get a little vertigo with FPS :p although I can handle MMORPGs pretty well.

462 palomino  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:27:49pm

re: #397 Varek Raith

Because of ACORN!!11!11

Teabag syllogism: Obama is ACORN...ACORN is destroying America!...Help, help! Obama is destroying America. He's the Antichrist!

463 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:27:57pm

re: #461 marjoriemoon

I haven't played it yet. Mr. Moon went through it and the add-ons. I get a little vertigo with FPS :p although I can handle MMORPGs pretty well.

You need to be playing Dragon Age Origins and Awakenings!

464 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:28:18pm

re: #460 Jimmah

Those were Talon Company Mercs - yep - mini nukes next time :)

I use em on those annoying Regulators all the time. Damn goody-goods!
:)

465 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:28:29pm

re: #314 allegro

They killed my beloved Sheltie, my best buddy. This puts China at the top of my shit list forever.

Don't forget Wal-Mart, which will sell any cheesy cheap-ass Chinese product with a big friendly smiley face sign saying "best price in town or your money back", including dog food and children's toys, without testing, quality control, or any compunction whatsoever.

Until said products are recalled.

Even then, don't expect any compunction.

466 ~Fianna  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:28:53pm

re: #442 marjoriemoon

That's not really true. Feminist.org has been real active in the plight to save Afghan women for at least the last 15 years.

It's out there, but it's too often not part of the discussion.

Feminist.org is, I think, where I first learned about how awful conditions were for women among the Pashtun.

467 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:28:53pm

re: #452 Walter L. Newton

So, it's ok if you shop at Walmart as long as you have the right understanding that not all these people working there are evil?

I'm no fanatic! I don't really like shopping at Wal-mart, I've only stepped into a Wal-Mart for personal shopping twice in two years. I do all my shopping at a local chain. Though at my work, we're basically told by the company to shop at Wal-Mart for work supplies, which is a pain.

And for the record those wipers I bought were Bosch, the same ones I always buy. ;-)

468 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:29:25pm

re: #461 marjoriemoon

I haven't played it yet. Mr. Moon went through it and the add-ons. I get a little vertigo with FPS :p although I can handle MMORPGs pretty well.

I know friends who get FPS vertigo, yeah. :(

469 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:31:05pm

I'm watching the stupid ACORN raw video from San Diego. Hard not to laugh my ass off - at both the "pimp" and "ho", and the ACORN guy. They are just making up the wildest shit they can think of, and the ACORN guy is going along with it.

He keeps trying to steer the conversation to the legal side, but he just wades too far out into the weirdness to have a valid defense. The conversation should have lasted about 5 minutes and then he should have kicked their asses out of his office.

470 Stanghazi  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:31:57pm

re: #469 Racer X

I'm watching the stupid ACORN raw video from San Diego. Hard not to laugh my ass off - at both the "pimp" and "ho", and the ACORN guy. They are just making up the wildest shit they can think of, and the ACORN guy is going along with it.

He keeps trying to steer the conversation to the legal side, but he just wades too far out into the weirdness to have a valid defense. The conversation should have lasted about 5 minutes and then he should have kicked their asses out of his office.

He called the cops right after they left.

Glad you are watching though.

471 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:32:48pm

re: #470 Stanley Sea

He called the cops right after they left.

Glad you are watching though.

Ha! Good for him.

472 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:32:54pm

re: #467 WindUpBird

I'm no fanatic! I don't really like shopping at Wal-mart, I've only stepped into a Wal-Mart for personal shopping twice in two years. I do all my shopping at a local chain. Though at my work, we're basically told by the company to shop at Wal-Mart for work supplies, which is a pain.

And for the record those wipers I bought were Bosch, the same ones I always buy. ;-)

Thank you, I knew there was a good reason.

473 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:33:18pm

re: #464 Varek Raith

I use em on those annoying Regulators all the time. Damn goody-goods!
:)

I almost always take the Regulator perk - watch your fingers, you bad mother :D

474 allegro  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:36:23pm

re: #465 Cato the Elder

Don't forget Wal-Mart...

I have avoided WalMart since the early 1990s when I saw what those stores did to small communities - destroyed them. I used to travel all over Texas then and saw small town after small town boarded up. Every time there was a big ol' WalMart just outside of town. Talking to the town's people, I heard the same story every time. As soon as the WalMart moved in, promising new jobs and prosperity, it put all of the family businesses out, replacing livelihoods with minimum wage. I grew to hate that company immensely.

475 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:39:07pm

re: #474 allegro

Good for you. Reality.

But don't let Mandy hear you say it. She'll mock you by telling you you're stupid for being against "eeebil korporayshuns".

The only part of which little refrain she has right being the last syllable.

476 Racer X  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:40:17pm

re: #475 Cato the Elder

Good for you. Reality.

But don't let Mandy hear you say it. She'll mock you by telling you you're stupid for being against "eeebil korporayshuns".

The only part of which little refrain she has right being the last syllable.

Mandy occupies quite a bit of your brain space these days.

477 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:42:22pm

re: #472 Walter L. Newton

Thank you, I knew there was a good reason.


it is NO FUN AT ALL Shopping at walmart during the day. It's such a zoo :(

478 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:43:40pm

re: #474 allegro

I have avoided WalMart since the early 1990s when I saw what those stores did to small communities - destroyed them. I used to travel all over Texas then and saw small town after small town boarded up. Every time there was a big ol' WalMart just outside of town. Talking to the town's people, I heard the same story every time. As soon as the WalMart moved in, promising new jobs and prosperity, it put all of the family businesses out, replacing livelihoods with minimum wage. I grew to hate that company immensely.

I feel the same way for the same reasons. And they treat their people like shit to boot.

479 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:44:48pm

re: #474 allegro

I have avoided WalMart since the early 1990s when I saw what those stores did to small communities - destroyed them. I used to travel all over Texas then and saw small town after small town boarded up. Every time there was a big ol' WalMart just outside of town. Talking to the town's people, I heard the same story every time. As soon as the WalMart moved in, promising new jobs and prosperity, it put all of the family businesses out, replacing livelihoods with minimum wage. I grew to hate that company immensely.

It's starting to have an effect on the music industry too, Wal-mart is now the biggest single brick and mortar retailer of music. (Apple doesn't count)

480 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:45:11pm

re: #478 LudwigVanQuixote

I feel the same way for the same reasons. And they treat their people like shit to boot.

See, that's what infuriates me, is the scummy way they treat employees. :/

481 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:45:28pm

re: #468 WindUpBird

I know friends who get FPS vertigo, yeah. :(

It sucks and there are so few PC games now anyway. Was it you? or Obi? who posted a gaming blog site? I've been cruisin through that.

Fallout's coming out with the Vegas addition in the fall, I hear tell.

482 allegro  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:47:33pm

re: #480 WindUpBird

See, that's what infuriates me, is the scummy way they treat employees. :/

It isn't just their employees. They're f*cking over employees at the companies with which they do business, too. One thing that put Proctor and Gamble out of business among many others.

483 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:49:36pm

re: #481 marjoriemoon

It sucks and there are so few PC games now anyway. Was it you? or Obi? who posted a gaming blog site? I've been cruisin through that.

Fallout's coming out with the Vegas addition in the fall, I hear tell.

both of us.

Rock paper shotgun and TIG source are great. Game Set Watch, also good!

484 austin_blue  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:55:27pm

re: #378 allegro

Losing a "kid" is always heartbreaking but easier to take when they die of a ripe, old age. Losing one like this while believing that you're doing the best for him - I was feeding him premium food, so I thought - is enraging and devastating beyond description. All for a few pennies of someone's profits.

re: #479 WindUpBird

It's starting to have an effect on the music industry too, Wal-mart is now the biggest single brick and mortar retailer of music. (Apple doesn't count)

Single biggest grocer, too. Meat cutters tried to unionize, so they went with pre-packaged beef from assembly lines, mostly using the undocumented.

Sweet.

485 ClaudeMonet  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:11:02pm

re: #482 allegro

Procter & Gamble is hardly out of business.

486 Querent  Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:09:10pm

re: #247 Jetpilot1101

amen!

This from a lizard who completes the logistics chain by taking all the perfectly good stuff that ends up in the complex's dumpsters down to the local thrift store. Waste not, want not...


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Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
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Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
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A Closer Look at the Eastman State Bar DecisionTaking a few minutes away from work things to read through the Eastman decision. As I'm sure many of you know, Eastman was my law school con law professor. I knew him pretty well because I was also running in ...
KGxvi
14 minutes ago
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