Virginia Governor McDonnell Declares April ‘Confederate History Month’

US News • Views: 4,508

Bob McDonnell, the Republican governor of Virginia, is bringing back a long-running right wing tradition by declaring April 2010 “Confederate History Month” — at the request of the neo-Confederate group “Sons of Confederate Veterans,” described by Civil War historian James M. McPherson as a white supremacist organization.

The two previous governors of Virginia (Democrats Mark Warner and Tim Kaine) refused to issue similar proclamations, but the Sons of Confederate Veterans knew they only had to wait until a Republican was in office.

This year’s proclamation was requested by the Sons of Confederate Veterans. A representative of the group said the group has known since it interviewed McDonnell when he was running for attorney general in 2005 that he was likely to respond differently than Warner or Kaine.

“We’ve known for quite some time we had a good opportunity should he ascend the governorship,” Brandon Dorsey said. “We basically decided to bide our time and wait until we had more favorable politicians in Richmond.”

McDonnell’s proclamation praises the sacrifices and courage of the Confederacy and describes the Civil War as “a war for independence,” but makes no mention at all of that pesky little distraction — slavery. Disgusting.

Republicans like McDonnell are reveling in their racism, and pandering to the most vile segments of US society. And then they whine and complain when African Americans want nothing to do with them.

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805 comments
1 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:25:09pm

i declare may kick a southern racists's ass month then

2 ryannon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:25:12pm

APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.

3 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:25:21pm

"Why do people in the south insist on renacting the Civil War so much, are they gonna win it this time?"

A quote from my brother after moving towards the equator to attend William And Mary from our home in Maryland.

4 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:26:01pm

The Neo-confederate movement is finally reaching critical mass, and raising its ugly head.

Hopefully we'll have the strength to chop it off this time.

More states celebrate this 'memorial month' than did at any time in the 20th century.

5 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:26:11pm

A war for independence?

Fail.

6 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:26:53pm

To repost:

What the fuck are black people supposed to do to observe this month?

What should they do that in order "to understand the sacrifices of the Confederate leaders,"?

What sacrifice did the Confederate leaders make for the black residents of their states?

Should they just keep out of the way? What is actually going to happen?

Things are pretty fucking tense in the US right now, and there's a racial component to it. Is this really the fucking right time to be having parades and shit that will be clearly divided along racial lines?

This is potentially really goddamn dangerous.

7 palomino  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:26:56pm

I guess this means he IS running for the GOP nod in 2012. Or at least trying to secure the teabag vote for some future election.

8 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:27:10pm

And I thought McDonnell was relatively sane. Sigh, why celebrate the Confederacy. I don't think everyone who was part of the Confederacy was evil but we need to remember that the system they were fighting to preserve kept human beings in slavery. A black classmate of mine pointed out that very well when we were talking about the confederacy last semester. It used to be here in Virginia that we'd celebrate MLK Day and "Lee-Jackson Day." I've never gotten Confederate romanticism. The Confederates were let's face it traitors.

9 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:27:19pm

re: #5 Gus 802

A war for independence?

Fail.

Those southern Confederates made exactly the same mistake that many tea party people today seem to be making... you aren't being ruled without representation if your guy doesn't win an election.

10 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:27:20pm

Cue apologists coming in talking about Dixiecrats in 5...4...3..

11 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:28:04pm

The only thing I've ever owned with a Confederate flag on it was a Dukes of Hazzard General Lee model :D

12 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:28:18pm

re: #8 HappyWarrior

Beyond that, despite the revisionism of the last 50~ years, it really was about slavery over everything else.

13 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:28:30pm

re: #10 windsagio

Cue apologists coming in talking about Dixiecrats in 5...4...3..

IN B4 BYRD

14 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:28:31pm

Is this one of the guys that was supposed to herald the GOP's comeback? A winner of a midterm election?

15 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:28:47pm

re: #6 Obdicut

To repost:

What the fuck are black people supposed to do to observe this month?

What should they do that in order "to understand the sacrifices of the Confederate leaders,"?

What sacrifice did the Confederate leaders make for the black residents of their states?

Should they just keep out of the way? What is actually going to happen?

Things are pretty fucking tense in the US right now, and there's a racial component to it. Is this really the fucking right time to be having parades and shit that will be clearly divided along racial lines?

This is potentially really goddamn dangerous.

Hey lets be fair, there are things that some black people can do to celebrate this month...

[Link: civilwargazette.wordpress.com...]


Of course I'm not especially sure they would want to....

16 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:28:48pm

I'm sure he only did it to appeal to his racist base.
Pure political strategery that, because every politician knows that being called a racist is your fast-pass ticket to re-election.

17 freetoken  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:28:49pm

Thus it becomes clearer exactly why the Tea Partiers crowed so loudly when their man won in VA.

18 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:28:54pm

re: #10 windsagio

Cue apologists coming in talking about Dixiecrats in 5...4...3..

Initiate engine start on The Robert Byrd Meme 9000 ©

/

19 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:29:15pm

re: #12 windsagio

Beyond that, despite the revisionism of the last 50~ years, it really was about slavery over everything else.

They're always like "But it was about states rights" to which I always reply "Yeah to own other human beings." It really pisses me off that this is still being romanticized.

20 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:29:18pm

re: #8 HappyWarrior

He went to Pat Robertsons CBN University, that lowers is grade on the sanity scale quite a bit.

21 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:29:34pm

re: #11 WindUpBird

I do the Confederate flag Bikinis!!

22 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:29:46pm

Just a reminder everyone: Juneteenth. June 19th. It's a Texas holiday (Sorry SJ), to celebrate the day they learned of the emancipation proclamation in Texas.

Juneteenth. Because the end of slavery in America is something to celebrate.

Especially if there is ribs and sheet cake involved. Maybe brisket. Definitely chicken and tater salad.

23 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:30:04pm

re: #16 tradewind

In fairness (altho I'm not sure this is a better thing), I don't think he even knows the difference. That faction has been lying to themselves so long that they couldn't see the truth if it hung them from a tree for kissing a white woman.

24 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:30:06pm

re: #14 Obdicut

Is this one of the guys that was supposed to herald the GOP's comeback? A winner of a midterm election?

Yeah he won here last fall in a landslide because the candidate the Dems ran a shitty as hell campaign.

25 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:30:10pm

Reposted from last thread:

Sez this proklamashun: "[...] April is the month in which the people of Virginia joined the Confederate States of America in a four year war between the states for independence that concluded at Appomattox Courthouse [...]"

Independence. Sure. Nothing do to with defending the right to own human chattel. In fact, it was much like the Revolutionary War, if you don't think about it too hard.

26 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:30:18pm

re: #14 Obdicut

Is this one of the guys that was supposed to herald the GOP's comeback? A winner of a midterm election?

They forgot about Dre!

27 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:30:43pm

re: #16 tradewind

So why did he do it?

Why have a declaration that so conspicuously avoids even mentioning slavery?

28 Bagua  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:30:53pm
29 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:30:54pm

re: #23 windsagio
At least you came up with an original metaphor.

30 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:30:56pm

re: #25 Cato the Elder

Reposted from last thread:

Sez this proklamashun: "[...] April is the month in which the people of Virginia joined the Confederate States of America in a four year war between the states for independence that concluded at Appomattox Courthouse [...]"

Independence. Sure. Nothing do to with defending the right to own human chattel. In fact, it was much like the Revolutionary War, if you don't think about it too hard.

As was pointed out, nobody was fighting for the right to sell cabbages free of interstate regulations.

31 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:31:26pm

re: #25 Cato the Elder

and as a repost, he says in the proclamation it was the second american revolution.

32 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:31:29pm

re: #29 tradewind

I'm quite proud of it actually, seemed apropos.

33 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:31:32pm

re: #27 Obdicut
You'd have to ask him.... I don't have access.

34 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:31:54pm

re: #32 windsagio
And innovative!

35 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:32:28pm

The GOP (and the Conservative movement) have to come to terms with this. Its not only self-destructive, its also harmful to the Republic as a whole.

36 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:32:49pm

re: #19 HappyWarrior


It saddens me to have heard my father claim that while freeing the slaves was all well and good the civil war was about states rights.

37 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:33:10pm

Interesting. No mention of slavery. No mention of emancipation.

38 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:33:14pm

re: #33 tradewind

So you're comfortable defending this move against charges of racism, but not actually explaining it beyond that?

39 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:33:27pm

re: #36 Dreggas

It saddens me to have heard my father claim that while freeing the slaves was all well and good the civil war was about states rights.

STATES RIGHTS TO OWN HUMAN BEING AS PROPERTY

40 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:33:48pm

re: #33 tradewind

You'd have to ask him... I don't have access.

If the governor of Oregon did this, this he'd be censured and voted out of office.

I like not being embarrassed of my governor, it's pretty cool

41 Lidane  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:34:01pm

re: #27 Obdicut

So why did he do it?

Why have a declaration that so conspicuously avoids even mentioning slavery?

Because mentioning the ugly truth of racism would be political correctness pandering to those lefty bastards that want to ruin the Confederacy's proud legacy.

///

42 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:34:14pm

re: #35 windsagio
Maybe POTUS will have him down to the WH for a beer and a sit-down.

43 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:34:22pm

If memory serves I recall this being posted a lot by someone in threads like this, so here is my tribute to his/her memory whoever that poster was, can't remember and can't be bothered to look back....


44 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:34:43pm

re: #42 tradewind

Maybe POTUS will have him down to the WH for a beer and a sit-down.

hahaha it's funny because you won't admit McDonnell is a scumbag prick

45 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:34:43pm

re: #40 WindUpBird

I like not having to be embarassed by my State.

I bet alot of Virginians are feeling really embarrassed right now

46 Lidane  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:35:11pm

Ugh. PIMF.

That should be "the ugly truth of racism and slavery".

This subject just makes my blood boil. I'm completely over all this romantic bullshit regarding the Civil War. =P

47 palomino  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:35:20pm

re: #19 HappyWarrior

They're always like "But it was about states rights" to which I always reply "Yeah to own other human beings." It really pisses me off that this is still being romanticized.

Ask a southerner what OTHER "states right" they were fighting for, and you'll usually get a blank stare. I've tried, repeatedly, to no avail.

48 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:35:30pm

re: #31 Dreggas

and as a repost, he says in the proclamation it was the second american revolution.

I looked for that in the proclamation and it's not there. What proclamation are you reading?

And is there something wrong with your shift keys, or are you one of those people who forgot how to type when they learned how to text? ;^)

49 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:35:43pm

re: #44 WindUpBird

hahaha it's funny because you won't admit McDonnell is a pandering scumbag prick

FixT

50 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:35:49pm

re: #39 SpaceJesus

Oh I know that now. Of course there's a lot of things I wish I had understood better when I was a kid that I get now that I am older so I wouldn't have looked like a fool by sticking my foot in my mouth*, but it's all part of the learning process.

* picture a 10 year old on a tour of a cave system, after being told that the caves are millions of years old asking "well how do you know the caves are that old when the earth as we know it has only been around for 6000 years". *facepalm*

51 Bagua  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:35:54pm

The Rebel


- Immortal Technique
52 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:36:07pm

My repost to SFZ here where it belongs about old racist people from the old days:
Don't worry Sister.. One of these days that old racist generation will be a distant memory.. I think we are making great strides in equality in the USA.
We have a long way to go...But I believe we are moving forward..My God..We elected a Black President...Not because he was black..But man that dude can give a speech...And America wanted Change after Bush..In 3 years..No matter what Glenn Beck seems to think.. We can vote his ass out of office..And not because he is black..
I love America...We grow as a nation.. sometimes good..sometime bad..But we grow...
Get with the fucking program Virgina
( I added that little R rated gem)

53 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:36:21pm

re: #47 palomino

"The right to secede!"

You know, to secede in order to keep having slaves >>

54 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:36:31pm

re: #41 Lidane

before you know it they'll be branding slavery as nothing more than a "Back to work" program.

55 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:36:47pm

re: #40 WindUpBird
It's not like there have been any embarrassing pols in Oregon. Some colorful mayors you folks have.

56 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:37:13pm

So how many rightwing blogs will cover this story and in what way?

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:37:18pm

re: #8 HappyWarrior

And I thought McDonnell was relatively sane. Sigh, why celebrate the Confederacy. I don't think everyone who was part of the Confederacy was evil but we need to remember that the system they were fighting to preserve kept human beings in slavery. A black classmate of mine pointed out that very well when we were talking about the confederacy last semester. It used to be here in Virginia that we'd celebrate MLK Day and "Lee-Jackson Day." I've never gotten Confederate romanticism. The Confederates were let's face it traitors.

I certainly don't think all Confederates were evil. I do, however, think that the Confederacy was a terrible idea, and the Union had to be preserved.

I'm all for studying, enjoying and preserving Virginia history, but this is ridiculous.

58 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:38:08pm

re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist

I certainly don't think all Confederates were evil. I do, however, think that the Confederacy was a terrible idea, and the Union had to be preserved.

I'm all for studying, enjoying and preserving Virginia history, but this is ridiculous.

I wonder if some day the South of the USA will come to feel the same way about the Confederacy that Germany does about the Third Reich.....

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:38:17pm

re: #10 windsagio

Cue apologists coming in talking about Dixiecrats in 5...4...3..

The Grand Cyclops! What of the Grand Cyclops!

60 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:38:24pm

re: #48 Cato the Elder

bah, my bad, that part is what the group PUSHING for the proclamation believes:

The citizen-soldiers who fought for the Confederacy personified the best qualities of America. The preservation of liberty and freedom was the motivating factor in the South's decision to fight the Second American Revolution.

61 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:38:32pm

re: #55 tradewind

That was a good comeback, I admit :p

62 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:38:47pm

re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist

I certainly don't think all Confederates were evil. I do, however, think that the Confederacy was a terrible idea, and the Union had to be preserved.

I'm all for studying, enjoying and preserving Virginia history, but this is ridiculous.

Could have been Civil War History Month.

63 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:38:53pm

re: #47 palomino
If I remember reading AH , the right to secede was mentioned in there somewhere.

64 freetoken  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:39:09pm

re: #35 windsagio

The GOP (and the Conservative movement) have to come to terms with this.

No they don't.

Humans are quite competent at lying to themselves, even to the coffin.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:39:13pm

re: #14 Obdicut

Is this one of the guys that was supposed to herald the GOP's comeback? A winner of a midterm election?

Wait. Isn't this the guy who did the response to the SOTU? I'm disappointed. He seemed solid.

66 palomino  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:39:14pm

re: #16 tradewind

I'm sure he only did it to appeal to his racist base.
Pure political strategery that, because every politician knows that being called a racist is your fast-pass ticket to re-election.

It's a dog whistle to neo-confederates and some teabaggers. If you don't see that, you don't know VA.

67 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:39:49pm

re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist

I certainly don't think all Confederates were evil. I do, however, think that the Confederacy was a terrible idea, and the Union had to be preserved.

I'm all for studying, enjoying and preserving Virginia history, but this is ridiculous.

Yep, this is what people need to come to grips with. Plus they need to understand the other perspectives as well. Lest we forget that the Confederates returned to slavery and sometimes executed captured black Union soldiers.

68 ryannon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:40:04pm

re: #10 windsagio

Cue apologists coming in talking about Dixiecrats in 5...4...3..

Bittersweet

69 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:40:10pm

re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist

At risk of godwinning this is always a good comparison:

Nazi Germany was evil, but not all Germans were evil Nazis.

In the same way, the Confederacy was Evil, but not all southerners were Confederates.

70 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:40:12pm

So I guess Virginia is no longer for lovers?

71 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:40:49pm

re: #64 freetoken

No they don't.

Humans are quite competent at lying to themselves, even to the coffin.

according to the meme, all they have to do is denounce and all's forgiven

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:41:07pm

re: #15 jamesfirecat

Hey lets be fair, there are things that some black people can do to celebrate this month...

[Link: civilwargazette.wordpress.com...]

Of course I'm not especially sure they would want to...

I'm having, for some reason, a terrible Onion-like vision of a middle-aged black professional who does Confederate reenactment on the weekends--playing a white cavalry officer, of course-- because all his friends from work do it, and it's lots of fun.

I need to make it go away.

73 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:41:09pm

re: #48 Cato the Elder

Yeah I am spoiled. For the most part everything I type gets auto-punctuated (software developer) but even when I text I try to use proper punctuation.

74 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:41:19pm

re: #70 marjoriemoon

So I guess Virginia is no longer for lovers?

What if the lovers last names are Loving? What then?

75 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:41:36pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait. Isn't this the guy who did the response to the SOTU? I'm disappointed. He seemed solid.

Steven Colbert even said “No one has ever looked more presidential in Richmond's capital room, except maybe Jefferson Davis..."

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:41:44pm

re: #16 tradewind

I'm sure he only did it to appeal to his racist base.
Pure political strategery that, because every politician knows that being called a racist is your fast-pass ticket to re-election.

Why do you think he did it? Straight-up question here. The previous governors avoided this.

77 cliffster  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:41:47pm

What the hell has happened to this thread? Where is the Master's thread? Where's the Tiger thread?

78 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:41:48pm

re: #62 Gus 802

Could have been Civil War History Month.

Yep, the part of Va where my folks live actually had quite a few unionists due to the Shenandoah Valley having some Quakers who migrated down from Pa in the 18th century.

79 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:41:56pm

re: #71 albusteve

They have to denounce, and quit pulling this crap.

As Byrd (or WW2) shows, somethings you have to live with the guilt of for the rest of your existence.

80 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:41:56pm

The GOP doesn't want any black people to vote for them, I guess.

On days like this, I think Ludwig is right. What the fuck is this shit? This is bullshit.

It's not that they're acknowledging bravery of Southern soldiers-- that's fine. Many soldiers got up and fought for their neighbors, for their friends and family. I think they should not have, that those they fought for were not worth their honor, but I can respect that.

But to make this proclamation and just avoid the fucking issue of slavery, to claim it was a war that the South was fighting FOR liberty. That is a slap in the face to every black resident of Virginia, and every black citizen of the United States, for that matter.

In fact, just to draw a fucking line under it:

WHEREAS, it is important for all Virginians to reflect upon our Commonwealth’s shared history, to understand the sacrifices of the Confederate leaders, soldiers and citizens

during the period of the Civil War

Those are all categories that excluded blacks in the Confederacy.

This proclamation literally only recognizes the sacrifices of whites in the Civil War.

81 cliffster  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:42:19pm

re: #77 cliffster

PIMF What the hell has happened to this blog? Where is the Master's thread? Where's the Tiger thread?

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:42:34pm

re: #22 EmmmieG

Just a reminder everyone: Juneteenth. June 19th. It's a Texas holiday (Sorry SJ), to celebrate the day they learned of the emancipation proclamation in Texas.

Juneteenth. Because the end of slavery in America is something to celebrate.

Especially if there is ribs and sheet cake involved. Maybe brisket. Definitely chicken and tater salad.

Perhaps this would be a good year for a picnic.

83 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:42:34pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait. Isn't this the guy who did the response to the SOTU? I'm disappointed. He seemed solid.

there are no solid politicians....only liquid and gas, viscous, ethereal slimeballs

84 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:43:20pm
WHEREAS, April is the month in which the people of Virginia joined the Confederate States of America in a four year war between the states for independence that concluded at Appomattox Courthouse;

Maybe he should at least get the history right.

In many ways, what happened at Bennett Place is more remarkable, and more important, than what happened at Appomattox. However, the Bennett place episode has long been ignored in light of the more dramatic events at Appomattox.

[...]

I can only hope that some day, the events at Bennett Place will receive the level of attention and the volume of scholarship devoted to Lee’s surrender at Appomattox Court House. Sadly, though, I doubt that will happen.

85 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:43:24pm

re: #83 albusteve

such a positivist!

86 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:43:29pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm having, for some reason, a terrible Onion-like vision of a middle-aged black professional who does Confederate reenactment on the weekends--playing a white cavalry officer, of course-- because all his friends from work do it, and it's lots of fun.

I need to make it go away.

I think it's because of the Simpsons.

"Our Stonewall Jackson ain't to great either..."

(In walks Apu)

"The south shall COME AGAIN!"

87 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:43:40pm

Okay, everyone, pop quiz: What Revolutionary Virginian said the following:

What a stupendous, what an incomprehensible machine is man! who can endure toil, famine, stripes, imprisonment & death itself in vindication of his own liberty and the next moment be deaf to all those motives whose power supported him thro' his trial, and inflict on his fellow men a bondage, one hour of which is fraught with more misery than ages of that which he rose in rebellion to oppose.

88 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:43:55pm

re: #83 albusteve

there are no solid politicians...only liquid and gas, viscous, ethereal slimeballs

/it's against the law to smoke within 200 feet of my congressman...

89 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:44:20pm

re: #74 EmmmieG

What if the lovers last names are Loving? What then?

Then they can sue the state for trying to say they broke its laws be being of different races and getting married.

90 palomino  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:44:26pm

When Republicans like Jack Kemp, Ken Mehlman and Karl Rove talked about GOP outreach to minority voters, do you really think this is what they had in mind?

91 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:44:32pm

re: #87 EmmmieG


It was Thomas Jefferson.

92 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:44:34pm

Sorry I'm late with this, but I was out getting my laundry. As always, this is My Standing Answer To Neo-Confederates:

93 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:44:52pm

re: #87 EmmmieG

Okay, everyone, pop quiz: What Revolutionary Virginian said the following:

What a stupendous, what an incomprehensible machine is man! who can endure toil, famine, stripes, imprisonment & death itself in vindication of his own liberty and the next moment be deaf to all those motives whose power supported him thro' his trial, and inflict on his fellow men a bondage, one hour of which is fraught with more misery than ages of that which he rose in rebellion to oppose.

I am gonna guess Jefferson but it could easily be my university's name sake, George Mason.

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:44:53pm

re: #40 WindUpBird

If the governor of Oregon did this, this he'd be censured and voted out of office.

I like not being embarrassed of my governor, it's pretty cool

The only real Civil War history we have in California is Fort Point. We do have reenactors and stuff there though.

We in the San Francisco Bay Area are very proud of having successfully defended San Francisco Bay against the Confederacy, although the Confederacy's navy was mostly underwater by the time construction finished up.

95 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:45:13pm

Another person who belongs to the Sons of Confederate Veterans: white supremacist Robert Stacy McCain.

96 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:45:17pm

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

James already posted it in your honor-- without remembering that it was you who generally posted them, of course.

97 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:45:23pm

re: #67 HappyWarrior
You might also add that there were a number of confederate soldiers who were black. And that a number of Confederates freed their slaves before the civil war, and that Union soldiers committed atrocities throughout the South.
Not being a Virginian, I don't know, but I imagine this has a historical context that was vetted before the proclamation.

98 freetoken  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:45:24pm

re: #80 Obdicut

The GOP doesn't want any black people to vote for them, I guess.

Some of the nut-o-sphere are still roasting Steele over the comment he made the other day.

You'd think the elephant part could see the "elephant" in the room, wouldn't ya?

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:45:46pm

re: #43 jamesfirecat

If memory serves I recall this being posted a lot by someone in threads like this, so here is my tribute to his/her memory whoever that poster was, can't remember and can't be bothered to look back...

[Video]

That's Dark Falcon's response to neo-Confederates everywhere, I believe.

100 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:45:52pm

On April 12, there should be a military parade by the 3rd Infantry through Richmond. Honoring the veterans, of course... Oh, and in their pretty blue uniforms ;)

William

101 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:46:03pm

re: #90 palomino

When Republicans like Jack Kemp, Ken Mehlman and Karl Rove talked about GOP outreach to minority voters, do you really think this is what they had in mind?

Which brings me to my favorite political meme. Nixon et al made a deal with the devil, intentionally selling out the GOP in the longterm in order to embrace southern racism as a poltiical tool.

And it worked, for about 40 years. Now its all finally coming apart.

102 theheat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:46:07pm

re: #87 EmmmieG

The same dude the Texicans want written out of their fundie history books...

103 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:46:12pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist
It's not the Onion. There are black Confederate re-enactors, just as there were black confederate troops.

104 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:46:12pm

I was born in TX and this kind of stuff is exactly the reason I've only ventured south of the Mason-Dixon line once in the past decade. Hell, our high school mascot was a huge Johnny Reb statue carrying a Confederate flag. The statue itself was pretty comical & innocuous looking—and I doubt it was meant to be threatening or offensive—but whenever I think back, I cringe when I try to imagine what must have gone through the minds of the few African-American students there. Ugh.

105 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:46:42pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm having, for some reason, a terrible Onion-like vision of a middle-aged black professional who does Confederate reenactment on the weekends--playing a white cavalry officer, of course-- because all his friends from work do it, and it's lots of fun.

I need to make it go away.

Dave Chappelle's KKK sketch was to die for...

106 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:46:45pm

Jefferson. Updings all around.

107 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:46:57pm

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

Sorry I'm late with this, but I was out getting my laundry. As always, this is My Standing Answer To Neo-Confederates:


[Video]

Already posted for you back in 43....

108 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:47:14pm

re: #85 windsagio

such a positivist!

and a realist...you don't actually believe elected officials run this country by anything other than proxy do you?...any particular Fortune 500 CEO probably has more power than any three senators

109 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:47:28pm

What's crazy is that there goes the black vote for any and all republicans in Virginia for the next 10 years or so. What the HELL was he thinking?

110 palomino  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:47:45pm

re: #63 tradewind

If I remember reading AH , the right to secede was mentioned in there somewhere.

To preserve human beings as property?

And could you be more specific than "in there somewhere"?

111 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:47:48pm

re: #97 tradewind

Dude. This proclamation literally only recognizes the sacrifices of whites in Virginia during the Civil War. There is not actually any known record of a black man bearing arms in the Southern Army as a regular solider. Some blacks were in the army in support positions, and were not regular soldiers.

This proclamation recognizes soldiers, citizens, and leaders in Virginia during the Civil War. All of those positions exclude blacks.

This proclamation is only recognizing the sacrifice of whites during the Civil War.

That is so wrong it's amazing.

112 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:48:03pm

re: #91 Dreggas

It was Thomas Jefferson.

Texans have no idea what you're talking about/

113 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:48:13pm

re: #88 brookly red

/it's against the law to smoke within 200 feet of my congressman...

mine has the same abilities as a fire hydrant

114 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:48:32pm

Okay, one more Revolutionary Virginian:

"I wish from my soul that the Legislature of the State could see the policy of a gradual Abolition of Slavery; It would prevt. much future mischief."

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:48:34pm

re: #58 jamesfirecat

I wonder if some day the South of the USA will come to feel the same way about the Confederacy that Germany does about the Third Reich...

No. I doubt it.

Nor, to some extent, should they. The evil of slavery was something the whole country was tainted by, and we paid in blood as a nation to end it. The South was the site of the last stand of slavery in the United States, but no one had real clean hands in the whole wretched mess.

116 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:48:53pm

re: #97 tradewind

Lets not be getting all neo-confederate-apologist now.

117 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:49:13pm

re: #114 EmmmieG

Small typo. This state, meaning Virginia specifically.

Too bad they didn't listen to him.

118 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:49:14pm

OK, Governor McDonnell wants some "Confederate History" I say let him have it:

The black troops, however, faced greater peril than white troops when captured by the Confederate Army. In 1863 the Confederate Congress threatened to punish severely officers of black troops and to enslave black soldiers.

As a result, President Lincoln issued General Order 233, threatening reprisal on Confederate prisoners of war (POWs) for any mistreatment of black troops. Although the threat generally restrained the Confederates, black captives were typically treated more harshly than white captives.

In perhaps the most heinous known example of abuse, Confederate soldiers shot to death black Union soldiers captured at the Fort Pillow, TN, engagement of 1864. Confederate General Nathan B. Forrest witnessed the massacre and did nothing to stop it.

There's the legacy of the Confederates.

[Link: www.archives.gov...]

119 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:49:36pm

re: #100 wlewisiii

On April 12, there should be a military parade by the 3rd Infantry through Richmond. Honoring the veterans, of course... Oh, and in their pretty blue uniforms ;)

William

That's perfect. Nice tweak of the nuts' noses.

120 lostlakehiker  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:49:36pm

The historian James M. McPherson (no relation to Yankee cavalry general McPherson) advanced in his civil war history Battle Cry of Freedom the interpretation that there was the revolution of 1860, and that secession amounted to the counterrevolution of 1861.

The Confederacy was conservatism at its very worst, defending the indefensible because it had used to be that way. I've no objection to remembering the history of the Confederacy, so long as it is kept firmly in mind that notwithstanding some battlefield heroics and some moments of grace under pressure, the dark cause at the root of it all was just plain wrong. And make no mistake: the confederacy was founded to protect and preserve slavery. (McPherson's book does a good job of proving that.)

I do have a problem with going from the observation that slavery was wrong to the conclusion that everyone who fought for the confederacy was no damned good. All through history, basically good people have been shanghaied into fighting for wrong causes through misplaced loyalty, their inability to penetrate the mythology of their own time, and the human tendency to groupthink, and see that their cause was not just.

Johnny Reb was an OK fellow the day after Appomattox. Lincoln had it right--with malice toward none, and charity toward all, let us bind up the wounds of the nation etc. etc.

Some day, some Republican will hit the right tone on this, and then we can remember both the awful wrong at the root of it all, and the tragic splendid skill and loyalty of the southern soldier, a skill and loyalty born of a culture that would continue to bring forth new generations of such men when that particular cause had passed into history. We do, after all, need men like that, and while Billy Yanks were fine soldiers too, the fact remains that in our next big war, Sgt. Alvin York was from Tennessee.

121 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:49:42pm

re: #109 Sigma_x

What's crazy is that there goes the black vote for any and all republicans in Virginia for the next 10 years or so. What the HELL was he thinking?

he's thinking of himself....why can't folks understand the simplest dynamic in politics?....me first, everytime

122 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:49:46pm

re: #112 Aceofwhat?

Texas? Isn't that a state in mexico?

123 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:49:49pm

re: #97 tradewind

You might also add that there were a number of confederate soldiers who were black. And that a number of Confederates freed their slaves before the civil war, and that Union soldiers committed atrocities throughout the South.
Not being a Virginian, I don't know, but I imagine this has a historical context that was vetted before the proclamation.

I just wish people who act as if the Confederacy was this wonderful thing would remember things like Fort Pillow. It's not something that is taught in schools.

124 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:49:59pm

re: #110 palomino
No, I wasn't referring to anything but your post where you said you couldn't remember any other issue.
The right to secede from the union was at issue, I believe.
(Actually, I think there are some folks in VT and TX who'd like to re-fight that one now, and I don't think slavery has anything to do with it).

125 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:50:03pm

re: #95 Charles

Another person who belongs to the Sons of Confederate Veterans: white supremacist Robert Stacy McCain.

we have our first candidate for celebrating may then

126 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:50:13pm

re: #118 Gus 802

I was gonna reply with a mention of Fort Pillow, but then at the bottom, saw you got to it.

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:50:17pm

re: #74 EmmmieG

What if the lovers last names are Loving? What then?

Well, then they're going to have to go to court, IIRC.

128 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:50:25pm

re: #122 Dreggas

Texas? Isn't that a state in mexico?

if only

129 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:50:30pm

re: #114 EmmmieG

George Washington.

130 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:51:09pm

2 words...Goddamn Idiot!

131 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:51:28pm

re: #123 HappyWarrior

I just wish people who act as if the Confederacy was this wonderful thing would remember things like Fort Pillow. It's not something that is taught in schools.

I only know about it from reading Harry Turtledove books....

132 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:51:44pm

re: #126 windsagio

I should add tho', many people with that kind of sympathy deny that the Fort Pillow Massacre even happened.

133 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:51:57pm

re: #116 windsagio
Let's not get all ahead of ourselves and assume all over the place now.
I know, it's a stretch.....
Since I have nothing confederate ... neo or otherwise....about my person for which to apologize, you're way off base.

134 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:52:07pm

re: #107 jamesfirecat

Already posted for you back in 43...

Thank you.

135 cliffster  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:52:24pm

I bet there were lots of people in the Confederate army who bravely fought for their, well, country, state, whatever. I bet the Sons of Confederate Veterans would really piss them off.

136 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:52:49pm

re: #131 jamesfirecat

Read about it in Grant's memoirs (surprisingly good reading actually, got into them because Mark Twain said he was one of the best writers of prose in the 19th century).

137 palomino  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:53:07pm

re: #69 windsagio

At risk of godwinning this is always a good comparison:

Nazi Germany was evil, but not all Germans were evil Nazis.

In the same way, the Confederacy was Evil, but not all southerners were Confederates.

Like any group whose ancestors committed atrocities, many southerners rationalize and deny.

It took the US a long time to fess up to the genocide of Native Americans; likewise with the Turks and their genocide of Armenians; hell, the Nazis would have tried harder to deny the Holocaust if they hadn't kept such thorough records.

This isn't really anything new in history; it just sucks that we haven't gotten over it after 150 years.

138 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:53:20pm

re: #133 tradewind

perhaps the language was unclear, I meant you were being an apologist for them.

139 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:53:29pm

re: #97 tradewind

You might also add that there were a number of confederate soldiers who were black.

This is simply not true.

[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]

140 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:53:45pm

I just sent the good governor a proclamation of my own:

WHEREAS you have seen fit to make a mockery of the true causes of the Civil war with your proclamation declaring it to have been "a four year war between the states for independence" rather than what it was, a war between people and states who believed they had the right to own human beings as chattel property and those that did not; and

WHEREAS my place of residence puts me in the way of frequently visiting the State of Virginia; and

WHEREAS my money can easily be spent elsewhere;

NOW, therefore, I, [Cato the Elder] of Baltimore, Maryland, declare that until such time as this nauseating revisionist proclamation is rescinded, I shall not visit, purchase goods from, or support in any way the Commonwealth of Virginia, and will actively work to encourage others to take similar steps.

You can send McDonnel your own little message (or just copy mine) here.

141 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:54:01pm

re: #137 palomino
The Turks still deny the Armenian Genocide.

142 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:54:06pm

I blew all my rage in the last thread after bringing this up...but I am enjoying hearing other people here say similar things about this epically stupid decision.

143 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:54:06pm

re: #138 windsagio
No, you were crystal.
Just wrong.

144 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:54:15pm

re: #137 palomino

The Armenian genocide is probably actually a better example. Like many in the south, the Turks still minimize or deny.

145 cliffster  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:54:51pm

re: #122 Dreggas

Texas? Isn't that a state in mexico?

Why don't you come down to Texas and we'll show you how to have a kicking-in-the-balls contest. You'll go first.

146 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:55:03pm

re: #136 windsagio

Read about it in Grant's memoirs (surprisingly good reading actually, got into them because Mark Twain said he was one of the best writers of prose in the 19th century).

I hear Grant's memoirs are some of the best of any president. I read about Fort Pillow in my free civil war reading that I did 7-8 years back.

147 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:55:07pm

re: #131 jamesfirecat

I only know about it from reading Harry Turtledove books...

I got 12 years of pulick skool & 7 years of private university & this is the frist I am hearing about it.

148 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:55:24pm

re: #143 tradewind

as it happens, you were wrong, in claiming that there were black soldiers.

I was just trying to work out a reason for your untruth.

149 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:55:42pm

In any case, the fallout will be interesting. Tune in at 7 to see if he's going to be impeached.
Probably depends upon the network you choose.

150 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:56:12pm

Okay, one more Revolutionary figure, not a Virginian, but still, the first American ROCK-STAR-BIG celebrity. (Seriously, honestly, the guy really was internationally famous.)

"From your Excellency's station, they hope your influence will be exerted, hereafter, to prevent a practice which is so evidently repugnant to the political principles and form of government lately adopted by citizens of the United States, and which cannot fail of delaying the enjoyment of the blessings of peace and liberty, by drawing down, the displeasure of the great and impartial Ruler of the Universe upon our country."

151 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:56:43pm

re: #150 EmmmieG

Okay, one more Revolutionary figure, not a Virginian, but still, the first American ROCK-STAR-BIG celebrity. (Seriously, honestly, the guy really was internationally famous.)

"From your Excellency's station, they hope your influence will be exerted, hereafter, to prevent a practice which is so evidently repugnant to the political principles and form of government lately adopted by citizens of the United States, and which cannot fail of delaying the enjoyment of the blessings of peace and liberty, by drawing down, the displeasure of the great and impartial Ruler of the Universe upon our country."

Uh Franklin.

152 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:56:51pm

re: #149 tradewind

well, probably not that. I'tll be interesting to see what happens next election tho'. VA is still trending blue, and that kind of crap will likely get people riled up, especially if he does it every year.

153 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:56:53pm

re: #118 Gus 802

OK, Governor McDonnell wants some "Confederate History" I say let him have it:

The black troops, however, faced greater peril than white troops when captured by the Confederate Army. In 1863 the Confederate Congress threatened to punish severely officers of black troops and to enslave black soldiers.

As a result, President Lincoln issued General Order 233, threatening reprisal on Confederate prisoners of war (POWs) for any mistreatment of black troops. Although the threat generally restrained the Confederates, black captives were typically treated more harshly than white captives.

In perhaps the most heinous known example of abuse, Confederate soldiers shot to death black Union soldiers captured at the Fort Pillow, TN, engagement of 1864. Confederate General Nathan B. Forrest witnessed the massacre and did nothing to stop it.

There's the legacy of the Confederates.

[Link: www.archives.gov...]

Forrest was the best cavalry commander of the war, and by far the most ruthless. If he'd had his way, he likely would never have taken any prisoners in his raids. He was found of say "War means fightin', and fightin' means killin'!."

154 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:56:59pm

"Proud southern whites who just want to (cough-cough) HONOR their ancestors and heritage" are an ever-shrinking demographic...

It's just that no one's bothered to tell them that.

155 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:57:14pm

re: #151 HappyWarrior

Yeah that one was kinda easy. Given the style of language it was definitely Ben.

156 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:58:01pm

re: #149 tradewind

In any case, the fallout will be interesting. Tune in at 7 to see if he's going to be impeached.
Probably depends upon the network you choose.

I realize it's tough being an apologist these days, but you really don't have much to go on here. McDonnell won't be impeached, but he might be recalled by the good people of Virginia (many of whom, due to its close proximity to the nation's capital, are transplants who don't necessarily think slavery was a good thing--not that most native Virginians do either).

157 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:58:10pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

He was a deeply bigoted, loathsome, racist, psychopath.

I would call very few Americans 'evil', but Forrest was one of them.

On the other hand, he was an excellent insurgent cavalry commander.

158 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:58:15pm

Given that I am actually using books and indexes, it may take me a moment to dig up the next one.

My point in all this is that I don't think their heroes would support them in this.

159 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:58:24pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

He was a good example of why your best generals are often not your best human beings.

160 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:58:37pm

re: #140 Cato the Elder

I just sent the good governor a proclamation of my own:

You can send McDonnel your own little message (or just copy mine) here.

Bravo, Cato! Brilliantly written and very just.

161 keloyd  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:59:27pm

re: #111 Obdicut

Dude. This proclamation literally only recognizes the sacrifices of whites in Virginia during the Civil War. There is not actually any known record of a black man bearing arms in the Southern Army as a regular solider. Some blacks were in the army in support positions, and were not regular soldiers.

This proclamation recognizes soldiers, citizens, and leaders in Virginia during the Civil War. All of those positions exclude blacks.

This proclamation is only recognizing the sacrifice of whites during the Civil War.

That is so wrong it's amazing.

THIS is why I'm not lifting a finger in defense of the South this time. Today's posturing and dog whistling is inexplicably poor long term strategy for the GOP. It also shows Michael Steele's weakness as a leader. A respected and effective chairman would have quashed this before it started.

I WANT to point out that the US flag is the flag of slavery more than the Confederate, having been a slave-holding nation for 85 years. I WANT to point out the North's connivance and enthusiastic support for slavery in a dozen ways. I WANT to point out the political domination of Northern political and industrial interests putting the squeeze on 2/3 of my ancestors until they were backed into a corner and squeezed back...but I'll wait. This nonsense in Virginia is not about history so much as riling up the Nirthers and other rabble.

162 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 3:59:35pm

re: #148 windsagio
Seriously?????
You should research Petersburg, VA.
The re-writing of history attempt began in the early 1900's, but was unsuccessful. Too much documentation.
In any case, it doesn't matter. The war is long over, and the battles should be as well.

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:00:03pm

re: #120 lostlakehiker

We do, after all, need men like that, and while Billy Yanks were fine soldiers too, the fact remains that in our next big war, Sgt. Alvin York was from Tennessee.

There is a collection of Civil-War-themed specfic, which includes a story whose title I can't recall. In it, a group of 1950s or 60s soldiers doing tank training exercises in the South find themselves having gone back in time. (Running into Confederate troops, the guy in the lead yells out "OK, MGM or whoever you are, get out of the way. This is the United States Army!" and is quite startled when they open fire.)

The plot eventually revolves around the fact that some of them become convinced that an unaccountable historical Union victory in the area must have been due to their firepower, but much of the group has Southern roots, and several realize that they actually have ancestors in the Confederate armies camped in the area.

Interesting read, an interesting insight into being a Southern soldier.

164 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:00:09pm

re: #156 darthstar

at risk of being mean, I think I've been reading Tradewind wrong.

She's not being an apologist for a racist, she's being an apologist for a Republican.

I suppose that might be better >>

165 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:00:42pm

re: #159 Obdicut

He was a good example of why your best generals are often not your best human beings.

well this comes up every time there is a war/conflict thread, but the point is to win after all.

166 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:01:04pm

re: #162 tradewind

2 seperate people gave you specific links refuting your point, and the links were converting (one of them was our Host too, but its kinda cheating to reference that). You respond with 'look up x' and a reference to revisionism with no links.

Who's more believable?

167 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:01:14pm

re: #161 keloyd

I WANT to point out the political domination of Northern political and industrial interests putting the squeeze on 2/3 of my ancestors until they were backed into a corner and squeezed back...but I'll wait. This nonsense in Virginia is not about history so much as riling up the Nirthers and other rabble.


what the fuck is this shit

168 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:01:31pm

re: #159 Obdicut

He was a good example of why your best generals are often not your best human beings.

Exactly. His closest analog in America's other enemies was likely SS panzer commander Joshim Peiper. Both were very skilled in mobile warfare, commanded the loyalty and respect of the men under them, but were utterly murderous in pursuit of horrible ends.

169 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:01:34pm

re: #161 keloyd

Dude, you can't say that you'll wait after you did it. You didn't goddamn wait. You said it. Don't be a passive aggressive ass.

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:01:42pm

re: #136 windsagio

Read about it in Grant's memoirs (surprisingly good reading actually, got into them because Mark Twain said he was one of the best writers of prose in the 19th century).

And Twain was merciless about bad writing. His commentaries on the Leatherstocking novels are laugh-out-loud, lose-your-breath funny. Especially if you've read much James Fennimore Cooper, which, alas, I have.

171 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:01:47pm

re: #165 brookly red

Forrest was a bit beyond say a Patton, tho'.

172 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:02:07pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

Forrest was the best cavalry commander of the war, and by far the most ruthless. If he'd had his way, he likely would never have taken any prisoners in his raids. He was found of say "War means fightin', and fightin' means killin'!."

Huh, as I recall it was sort of a toss up between him and Jeb Stewart, rather than there being one clearly better than the other, though that said I've never paid much attention to what happened on the Western Side of the Civil war being from Maryland and all....

173 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:02:14pm

re: #164 windsagio

at risk of being mean, I think I've been reading Tradewind wrong.

She's not being an apologist for a racist, she's being an apologist for a Republican.

I suppose that might be better >>

He's a she? I didn't know that.

And yes, I do believe this is merely political defensiveness...I find it difficult to believe anyone could defend the glorification of the days of slavery.

174 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:02:27pm

It's so easy to spot the people on this thread who - clearly - have no problem with this at all.

175 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:02:56pm

re: #171 windsagio

Forrest was a bit beyond say a Patton, tho'.

DF's comparison is totally apt. Peiper was an excellent general and a committed ideologue to Nazism. They were both brilliant in a similar way, able to raid and exploit nearly unstoppably.

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:02:57pm

re: #150 EmmmieG

Okay, one more Revolutionary figure, not a Virginian, but still, the first American ROCK-STAR-BIG celebrity. (Seriously, honestly, the guy really was internationally famous.)

"From your Excellency's station, they hope your influence will be exerted, hereafter, to prevent a practice which is so evidently repugnant to the political principles and form of government lately adopted by citizens of the United States, and which cannot fail of delaying the enjoyment of the blessings of peace and liberty, by drawing down, the displeasure of the great and impartial Ruler of the Universe upon our country."

I'm going to guess Franklin, then.

177 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:03:04pm

re: #161 keloyd

speaking of apologists...

Seriously, that kind of thing is better to hold in, just for your own sake.

178 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:03:09pm

What? I thought this was the nice, clean cut, white bread, not scary GOP guy.

179 Silvergirl  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:03:13pm

7.8-magnitude earthquake hits Indonesia

180 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:03:20pm

re: #152 windsagio
Trending blue.
I guess 2010 midterms will tell.
Here's your program:
[Link: www.thegreenpapers.com...]

181 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:03:34pm

re: #145 cliffster

Why don't you come down to Texas and we'll show you how to have a kicking-in-the-balls contest. You'll go first.

Hey..I'm moving this summer by the University of Oklahoma in Norman.
I'm going to check out the Texas sports scene...See a Cowboys game..Get to know the Mavericks...We should meet up sometime.
/I will have to watch Houston when they play the Colts..

182 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:03:35pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh man I love that!

I've written just about everything Twain wrote, but his mockery of Cooper is brilliant.

183 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:03:35pm

re: #161 keloyd

THIS is why I'm not lifting a finger in defense of the South this time. Today's posturing and dog whistling is inexplicably poor long term strategy for the GOP. It also shows Michael Steele's weakness as a leader. A respected and effective chairman would have quashed this before it started.

I WANT to point out that the US flag is the flag of slavery more than the Confederate, having been a slave-holding nation for 85 years. I WANT to point out the North's connivance and enthusiastic support for slavery in a dozen ways. I WANT to point out the political domination of Northern political and industrial interests putting the squeeze on 2/3 of my ancestors until they were backed into a corner and squeezed back...but I'll wait. This nonsense in Virginia is not about history so much as riling up the Nirthers and other rabble.

Don't wait. Explain yourself.

184 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:03:53pm

re: #174 Sigma_x

The lines are becoming brighter every day.

185 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:04:14pm

re: #161 keloyd

Enjoy your downding!

186 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:04:28pm

Okay, so this dude isn't Virginian, and came to America as an adult, but he was the author of one of the most famous tracts on liberty and the revolution...

"I wish most anxiously to see my much loved America--it is the Country from whence all reformations must originally spring--I despair of seeing an Abolition of the infernal trafic in Negroes--"

187 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:04:28pm

re: #171 windsagio

Forrest was a bit beyond say a Patton, tho'.

hey, it comes with the job... it is what it is.

188 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:04:48pm

re: #184 prairiefire

Just the other day I got called a bigot for calling the Tea Baggers bigots.

189 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:04:57pm

re: #183 Dark_Falcon

//Not sure we should be enouraging people to their own destruction ;)

190 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:05:18pm

re: #178 prairiefire

What? I thought this was the nice, clean cut, white bread, not scary GOP guy.

Nope!

re: #174 Sigma_x

It's so easy to spot the people on this thread who - clearly - have no problem with this at all.



Yep!

191 palomino  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:05:20pm

re: #141 pingjockey

The Turks still deny the Armenian Genocide.

I know. I live here in SoCal, which has a big Armenian immigrant population. But some Turkish scholars and even a few politicians are starting to break down that wall of denial. Eventually the Turks may accept reality on the issue.

192 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:05:30pm

re: #183 Dark_Falcon

Don't wait. Explain yourself.

but others have asked him not to....oh my, the post cops are all confused

193 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:05:41pm

re: #188 Sigma_x

Just the other day I got called a bigot for calling the Tea Baggers bigots.

By a real brain surgeon, I'm sure. :D

194 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:05:42pm

re: #165 brookly red

well this comes up every time there is a war/conflict thread, but the point is to win after all.

Its to win while not losing the things that you were fighting for in the first place, otherwise all your left with is a pyrrhic victory.

195 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:05:42pm

Wasn't it Nathan B. Forrest who started the KKK? Or some other Confederate General?

196 Silvergirl  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:06:04pm
197 uninformed opinion  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:06:11pm

re: #188 Sigma_x

Just the other day I got called a bigot for calling the Tea Baggers bigots.

I become the "liberal elitist"

198 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:06:31pm

re: #195 pingjockey

Wasn't it Nathan B. Forrest who started the KKK? Or some other Confederate General?

The very same.

199 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:06:31pm

The reason why this ridiculous canard that "black soldiers fought in the Confederate Army" always comes up when this subject is raised: because it's supposed to undercut the very obvious truth that the Civil War was about slavery, from start to finish.

There were NO black soldiers fighting on the side of the Confederacy. This claim is FALSE.

200 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:06:33pm

re: #195 pingjockey

Forrest was a maniac. A psychopathic, unapologetic racist maniac. And, yes, it was he who started the KKK.

201 cliffster  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:06:34pm

re: #181 HoosierHoops

Hey..I'm moving this summer by the University of Oklahoma in Norman.
I'm going to check out the Texas sports scene...See a Cowboys game..Get to know the Mavericks...We should meet up sometime.
/I will have to watch Houston when they play the Colts..

Sweet. My in-laws are OU alum. Me and my wife are Longhorns. Makes family time interesting ;)

Shoot me an email when you're coming around. (how do I give you my email address anyways?)

202 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:06:41pm

re: #195 pingjockey

I thought it was him, but I didn't bother to check so I didn't want to say.

As I said, he was a monster.

203 theheat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:07:00pm

re: #186 EmmmieG

Paine.

204 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:07:06pm

re: #196 Silvergirl

Earthquake

Let's hope its depth (48km) is enough to avoid a tsunami.

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:07:16pm

re: #186 EmmmieG

Okay, so this dude isn't Virginian, and came to America as an adult, but he was the author of one of the most famous tracts on liberty and the revolution...

"I wish most anxiously to see my much loved America--it is the Country from whence all reformations must originally spring--I despair of seeing an Abolition of the infernal trafic in Negroes--"

Ahhh...Paine?

206 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:07:24pm

re: #188 Sigma_x
Well, there's certainly nothing bigoted about the term ' tea-bagger'.

207 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:07:24pm

re: #194 jamesfirecat

Its to win while not losing the things that you were fighting for in the first place, otherwise all your left with is a pyrrhic victory.

well yes but it sure beats having yer butt shot off.

208 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:07:30pm
209 ryannon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:07:34pm

re: #194 jamesfirecat

Its to win while not losing the things that you were fighting for in the first place, otherwise all your left with is a pyrrhic victory.

Tomorrow's another day.

210 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:07:34pm

re: #191 palomino
IIRC, GW Bush or one of the previous admins was going to do something to recognize the Armenian genocide as such and the Turks had a fit.

211 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:08:05pm

re: #206 tradewind

For once, you're totally right!

Altho when I first heard a 'teabagger' self-description, I almost died >>

212 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:08:12pm

From TPM - 2006

With regards to Governor Allen and the Macaca Incident

"The point is, symbols matter, they should matter, and this is something that I wish I learned a lot earlier," Allen said. "Even if your heart is pure, the things you say and do and the symbols you use do matter because of the way others may take them."

Allen wore a Confederate flag pin on his lapel in his 1970 graduation picture from a Southern California high school. He hung a noose from a plant in his Charlottesville law office in the 1980s and a Confederate flag inside his home. As governor in the mid-1990s, he alienated some by signing a resolution that designated a Confederate history month in Virginia but did not acknowledge the evils of slavery.

213 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:08:21pm

re: #195 pingjockey

Wasn't it Nathan B. Forrest who started the KKK? Or some other Confederate General?

It was Forrest.

Which I know from watching Forrest Gump....

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:08:23pm

re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist

Ahhh...Paine?

I'm really using the clues about their biographies, not the quotes themselves...

215 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:08:33pm

re: #198 HappyWarrior

re: #200 Sigma_x
Hah! So I did learn something in history class 'lo those many years ago.

216 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:09:09pm

re: #206 tradewind

Well, there's certainly nothing bigoted about the term ' tea-bagger'.

No, there is not :)

217 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:09:11pm

The good thing about all this is that, in 10 years or so, when a politician can't win an election in Virginia without getting at least 25% of (what will probably no longer be referred to as) the minority vote, republicans will be scratching their heads wondering where they went wrong.

218 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:09:25pm

re: #186 EmmmieG

Payne

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:09:32pm

re: #206 tradewind

Well, there's certainly nothing bigoted about the term ' tea-bagger'.

No, there isn't. It's mocking, but not bigoted, and they really did bring it on themselves.

If a group of dedicated leftists start calling themselves 'donkey punchers' and find out what it means too late, I will laugh at them too.

220 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:09:47pm

re: #212 Gus 802

it was so satisfying when that guy's star fell.

221 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:09:51pm

re: #178 prairiefire

What? I thought this was the nice, clean cut, white bread, not scary GOP guy.

no, that's me.

oops - did you say clean-cut? nevermind...

222 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:10:06pm

re: #175 Obdicut

DF's comparison is totally apt. Peiper was an excellent general and a committed ideologue to Nazism. They were both brilliant in a similar way, able to raid and exploit nearly unstoppably.

Peiper was only stopped by the US Army. The Red Army's severe flexibility problem kept them from being able to effectively pursue him. American forces were far more willing to show initiative (which would have gotten a Soviet officer sent to the gulag) and were thus able to set up roadblocks and ambushes to slow him down.

223 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:10:14pm

re: #217 Sigma_x

The Secretary of State would be smart to move their primary to April.

224 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:10:28pm

re: #217 Sigma_x

The good thing about all this is that, in 10 years or so, when a politician can't win an election in Virginia without getting at least 25% of (what will probably no longer be referred to as) the minority vote, republicans will be scratching their heads wondering where they went wrong.

sure, but by then McDonnell will have had his bling

225 cliffster  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:10:28pm

Just an ugly fucking time in US history. Here it is, a century and a half later, and it still has everyone all charged up.

226 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:10:34pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

No, there isn't. It's mocking, but not bigoted, and they really did bring it on themselves.

If a group of dedicated leftists start calling themselves 'donkey punchers' and find out what it means too late, I will laugh at them too.

I'm against Cleveland and I'm steamed off about it!

We've got to stop all these dirty Sanchez's from sneaking across the Mexican border!

We here in the musicians union demand to have our rusty trombone issue taken serriously!

227 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:10:43pm

re: #218 Dreggas

Max?

228 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:10:45pm

re: #186 EmmmieG

Three pages into Yahoo search is a no go for me.

So your Dutch ancestors? Not Westphals from Kingston, NY?

229 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:11:02pm

re: #228 prairiefire

Paine.

230 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:11:14pm

re: #225 cliffster

Just an ugly fucking time in US history. Here it is, a century and a half later, and it still has everyone all charged up.

I'm charged up by the fact that a Republican can do this and not be censured. :)

231 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:11:16pm

re: #220 WindUpBird

it was so satisfying when that guy's star fell.

Tell me about it :). I didn't think Jimmy Webb had a chance and all sudden he had a chance and ended up winning. It was so weird that Allen acted as if the kid was some foreigner since the kid was Virginia raised and bred but to people like Allen any Virginian who doesn't adhere to their views isn't a "real Virginian."

232 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:11:19pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

No, there isn't. It's mocking, but not bigoted, and they really did bring it on themselves.

If a group of dedicated leftists start calling themselves 'donkey punchers' and find out what it means too late, I will laugh at them too.

well the TP don't call them selves teabaggers... that was handed to them intentionality.

233 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:11:35pm

re: #225 cliffster

Just an ugly fucking time in US history. Here it is, a century and a half later, and it still has everyone all charged up.

As well it should.

234 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:12:01pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

Also, the Jabos were amazing at interdiction, which helped slow him up too.

But yeah-- if there's one thing the US did right, it was learn quickly how to beat Germans without using the tactics of a dictatorship.

235 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:12:08pm

re: #226 jamesfirecat

I'm against Cleveland and I'm steamed off about it!

We've got to stop all these dirty Sanchez's from sneaking across the Mexican border!

We here in the musicians union demand to have our rusty trombone issue taken serriously!

dude...you're supposed to empty the spit valve from time to time...

236 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:12:25pm

re: #225 cliffster

I think most of us would be over it if it weren't for the constant stream of lies and justifications, and for the real harm it can do people.

Don't be surprised when folks are offended by Evil.

237 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:12:36pm

re: #232 brookly red

well the TP don't call them selves teabaggers... that was handed to them intentionality.

Actually, they did start by calling themselves teabaggers, until someone pointed out to them that they already looked like nut-sucking fools without naming themselves as such.

238 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:12:46pm

re: #232 brookly red

well the TP don't call them selves teabaggers... that was handed to them intentionality.

No, I don't think so. They started calling themselves teabaggers and then figured out what it meant.

239 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:12:48pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist
No, no homophobia there.//

240 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:12:57pm

re: #237 darthstar

Actually, they did start by calling themselves teabaggers, until someone pointed out to them that they already looked like nut-sucking fools without naming themselves as such.

Zing!

241 palomino  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:12:57pm

re: #152 windsagio

well, probably not that. I'tll be interesting to see what happens next election tho'. VA is still trending blue, and that kind of crap will likely get people riled up, especially if he does it every year.

I think you're right on this. It won't be McDonnell's "macaca moment" but I don't see how it plays out well long term.

242 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:13:15pm

re: #234 Obdicut

Also, the Jabos were amazing at interdiction, which helped slow him up too.

But yeah-- if there's one thing the US did right, it was learn quickly how to beat Germans without using the tactics of a dictatorship.

by killing them and breaking their shit... same as it ever was.

243 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:13:39pm

re: #237 darthstar

Actually, they did start by calling themselves teabaggers, until someone pointed out to them that they already looked like nut-sucking fools without naming themselves as such.

I like your explanation much better.

244 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:13:58pm

re: #206 tradewind

Well, there's certainly nothing bigoted about the term ' tea-bagger'.

You see nothing wrong with Confederate History Month, have used the dog whistle story about Black soldiers serving with the confederates, and now suggest the term 'tea-bagger' is bigoted. Feeling a little oppressed today are we?

245 keloyd  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:14:09pm

re: #183 Dark_Falcon
Ok, since you asked, Northern interests were perfectly happy to buy slave-grown cotton for its mills. Northern pols were perfectly happy to jack around with tarrifs to help themselves and hurt the South. A few slave states fought with the North. Most 'free' states adjoining the South had morally indefensible laws re black residency and how to deal with runaways. History nothwithsdanding, that Virginian governor is a dog-whistling a clown catering indirectly to the Nirthers. Still, this nation has had an evil version of 'Dueling Banjos' with their revision of that war. I see a dozen cases of whitewashing here, some of which I addressed. A few excitable types may take this as dog whistling, but I know what I mean, and dinner + Guinness time approaches.

Also, yes, I was (what one thought was obviously) tongue-in-cheek when I said "I want to say...but I won't" then spent 6 lines saying the thing itself, so let's all be happy and mellow and enjoy the sunny weather and blooming flowers.

246 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:14:16pm

re: #232 brookly red

well the TP don't call them selves teabaggers... that was handed to them intentionality.

Actually they did.

are you allergic to facts?

247 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:14:19pm

Next up:

Angela Merkel of Germany, at the urging of the Sons of the Third Reich, proclaims May 2010 to be "National-Socialist History Month", to honor those Germans who fought in a six-year war for European unity.

Or maybe not so much.

248 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:14:25pm

Hey Charles, tech note:

You're showing up in the top ten again.

249 Batman  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:14:35pm
Mark Twain said he was one of the best writers of prose in the 19th century

Of course, Twain's failing company was Grant's publisher, but yeah it's supposed to be excellent work. He even gave Grant something like 75% -- a huge deal for a writer. It's sad that he died only days after he finished writing them, and in poverty. Fortunately, the memoirs made his family quite a penny.

250 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:14:42pm

re: #237 darthstar
Who was the tea party person who called himself a tea-bagger?
Bet he's sorry now.

251 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:14:43pm

re: #246 WindUpBird

Common ailment *cough*

252 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:14:56pm

re: #237 darthstar

re: #238 marjoriemoon

no... I think it was a certain news caster, but I can't prove it so whatever.

253 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:15:07pm

re: #239 tradewind

No, no homophobia there.//

Ha! Joking about sexual acts isn't homophobic...it might be homoerotic, but it's not homophobic.

254 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:15:23pm

re: #230 WindUpBird

I'm charged up by the fact that a Republican can do this and not be censured. :)

YOu would sort of think the Party of Lincoln wouldn't have truck with this. Is it possible he's going to get a call from downtown?

255 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:15:29pm

re: #249 nonsense

That's part of the story, Twain gave him a good deal on purpose 'cuz he really needed it to support his family after he died of Jaw cancer.

256 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:15:39pm

re: #188 Sigma_x

Just the other day I got called a bigot for calling the Tea Baggers bigots.

I've never been to a tea party...
Do you Honest to God think all tea party people are bigots? That's a broad brush...Charles has done an expert job calling out the true bigots in that movement...And I think that is the proper way to address the Tea partiers..
I remember back in the primaries the Kos kiddies were going nuts and he called out that element of that blog...He wouldn't let it slide down the memory hole..He would cache the page and post about it...
Charles is an equal opportunity Blogger of nuts on both the left and right...

257 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:15:52pm

re: #250 tradewind

Who was the tea party person who called himself a tea-bagger?
Bet he's sorry now.

It started with Rick Santelli from CNBC last February in a rant around 8:30 am in the morning, calling for a Tea Party protest from the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.

258 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:15:53pm

re: #246 WindUpBird

Actually they did.

are you allergic to facts?

so make it a fact...

259 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:16:15pm

re: #232 brookly red

well the TP don't call them selves teabaggers... that was handed to them intentionality.

I had thought the term was originally used within the movement, and was only abandoned when, after much giggling, someone finally Googled it.

260 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:16:33pm

re: #244 McSpiff

You see nothing wrong with Confederate History Month,


Damn..... you're pulling this stuff right out of my head. You should contact Foggy Bottom..... they need people with your psyops skills.
Sigh. I'm pretty sure I haven't offered an opinion of Confederate History Month.

261 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:17:04pm

What the hell is "intentionality", Brookly red?

262 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:17:15pm

re: #257 Sigma_x

I remember they called themselves tea-baggers when they started to....tea bag congress

263 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:17:18pm

re: #234 Obdicut

Also, the Jabos were amazing at interdiction, which helped slow him up too.

But yeah-- if there's one thing the US did right, it was learn quickly how to beat Germans without using the tactics of a dictatorship.

Indeed. The key to stopping Peiper and the German Blitzkrieg was defense in depth. The initial penetration of the line could not be prevented, but the prompt and correct deployment of reserves could stem the thrust. Peiper could not win in the Ardennes, given the numbers against him and the refusal of most American units to panic. The provision of new tanks, specifically the M4E8 model Sherman and the M24 Chaffee light tank, also played a role. As did the M36 Tank Destroyer. To bring it back to the main topic, it was named for a Civil War general from Virginia: being known as the M36 Jackson.

264 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:17:28pm

re: #201 cliffster

The cookbook.. Reine is a wonderful gatekeeper..
and a wonderful person

265 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:17:33pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

Image: 2009-03-18-tea_bag_dems.jpg

266 theheat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:17:34pm

I certainly hope Michael Steele can get some time off and participate in the festivities. It could be a great fundraiser with a black man like Steele leading the Confederate charge. That is, if Rush says it's okay to go.
//

267 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:17:41pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

I had thought the term was originally used within the movement, and was only abandoned when, after much giggling, someone finally Googled it.

well it could be but all the cool kids already knew what it meant (to some people) so I am guessing not.

268 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:17:50pm

re: #260 tradewind

Damn... you're pulling this stuff right out of my head. You should contact Foggy Bottom... they need people with your psyops skills.
Sigh. I'm pretty sure I haven't offered an opinion of Confederate History Month.

In that case, what's your opinion of Confederate History Month?

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:18:00pm

re: #239 tradewind

No, no homophobia there.//

Don't talk nonsense. I try not to use the 'teabagger' term because people have made it clear they don't like it, but it's not homophobic, it was initially used by the TPers themselves, it's not bigoted, and it's not unfair.

270 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:18:00pm

re: #250 tradewind

Who was the tea party person who called himself a tea-bagger?
Bet he's sorry now.

I don't know. I really don't take them seriously. But in their initial rallies, there were several people getting interviewed on Fox and actual news networks proudly claiming they were teabaggers (though in their defense, they were probably thinking 'Boston Tea Party' and not about tickling testicles with their tongues)

271 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:18:13pm

re: #261 Sigma_x

What the hell is "intentionality", Brookly red?

a publik skool education.

272 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:18:58pm

Mea culpa, Broklyn red....

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

273 theheat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:18:58pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

I vote we relabel them The Dirty Sanchezes. Sounds more culturally unifying than teabaggers.

274 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:19:09pm

re: #239 tradewind

No, no homophobia there.//

You know, I'm putting down my jokester persona for a moment.

You have some fucking nerve talking about homophobia when you were pushing that GLSEN/Kevin Jennings smear about kids being taught about fisting. You only stopped when Charles explicitly brought it up as a smear. You're a snake, and a mindless partisan. You have no credibility.

275 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:19:10pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

I had thought the term was originally used within the movement, and was only abandoned when, after much giggling, someone finally Googled it.

"Lets tea bag the Whitehouse!"

Was how I recall it starting (via Daily Show)

And if these are the people who plan on doing some teabagging that in turn would make them the....

276 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:19:19pm

re: #266 theheat

I certainly hope Michael Steele can get some time off and participate in the festivities. It could be a great fundraiser with a black man like Steele leading the Confederate charge. That is, if Rush says it's okay to go.
//

He'll be a hit at the celebrity auction.
/

277 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:19:20pm

re: #270 darthstar

Per wiki (source for my above image, indirectly), the term was first used on signs, and originated from the Freep.

278 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:19:21pm

re: #199 Charles

The reason why this ridiculous canard that "black soldiers fought in the Confederate Army" always comes up when this subject is raised: because it's supposed to undercut the very obvious truth that the Civil War was about slavery, from start to finish.

There were NO black soldiers fighting on the side of the Confederacy. This claim is FALSE.

Up here in Canada, we were taught that in addition to ending slavery, the Civil War was primarily about stopping the Confederacy from forming their own nation and keeping all the lucrative profits from the cotton trade.
And apparently the main reason the cotton trade was so profitable was...slavery.
So yes, it was ALL about slavery...sort of.

279 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:19:50pm

re: #275 jamesfirecat

"Lets tea bag the Whitehouse!"

Was how I recall it starting (via Daily Show)

And if these are the people who plan on doing some teabagging that in turn would make them the...

donkey punchers?

280 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:20:11pm

Are there really people still left on earth who tries to argue that the Civil War was about anything OTHER than slavery?

Wow.

281 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:20:22pm

re: #272 Sigma_x

Mea culpa, Broklyn red...

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

well to be truthful I meant intensionally so I will split it with you.

282 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:20:44pm

re: #268 McSpiff
I suppose it would depend on who is observing it and in what context. There's not such a holiday here, so I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
(Still waiting to find out how you opened my brainz).

283 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:20:47pm

re: #280 Sigma_x

Are there really people still left on earth who tries to argue that the Civil War was about anything OTHER than slavery?

Wow.

Yes, lots of them. And many of them are right wing bloggers.

284 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:20:49pm

re: #278 Spare O'Lake

Up here in Canada, we were taught that in addition to ending slavery, the Civil War was primarily about stopping the Confederacy from forming their own nation and keeping all the lucrative profits from the cotton trade.
And apparently the main reason the cotton trade was so profitable was...slavery.
So yes, it was ALL about slavery...sort of.

Yep...I was going to post to Charles about that...the Civil War (like just about every fucking war in the planet's history) was about economics as much as anything else...but ending slavery was a nice benefit.

285 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:21:28pm

re: #276 darthstar

He'll be a hit at the celebrity auction.
/

Wow... just wow.....

286 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:21:29pm

re: #278 Spare O'Lake

I think that has something to do with the 'get it into the textbooks' thing that we were talking about last week (or the week before?). That crap was widely taught for a while (I got it some in school too), and is also almost entirely untrue.

287 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:21:34pm

re: #283 Charles

Yes, lots of them. And many of them are right wing bloggers.

It was about Slavery, but it also had an economic component to it...that much is true.

288 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:22:14pm

re: #282 tradewind

I suppose it would depend on who is observing it and in what context. There's not such a holiday here, so I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
(Still waiting to find out how you opened my brainz).

In the context of the Virgina holiday, the one we're discussing here. Think its a good thing, bad thing, people are getting worked up over nothing?

289 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:22:16pm

re: #274 WindUpBird
Have attention problems?
But I love the ' all over the landscape'
thing, so knock yourself out.

290 palomino  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:22:20pm

re: #210 pingjockey

IIRC, GW Bush or one of the previous admins was going to do something to recognize the Armenian genocide as such and the Turks had a fit.

Right, same thing now with Obama (as well as Bush and Clinton before him). He clearly wants to officially recognize the Armenian genocide, but there's a lot of lobbying from Turks against that. And of course Turkey is a much bigger country than Armenia, and more strategically important, so nothing usually happens.

Keep your eye on April 24...it's the day Armenians commemorate the genocide. The debate usually heats up around then.

291 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:22:30pm

re: #284 darthstar

Yep...I was going to post to Charles about that...the Civil War (like just about every fucking war in the planet's history) was about economics as much as anything else...but ending slavery was a nice benefit.

Wars are complex events with many causes. But without slavery, there would have been no Civil War.

292 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:23:13pm

re: #239 tradewind

No, no homophobia there.//

Nope.

293 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:23:15pm

re: #284 darthstar

Read a really good book about that a while ago, and that's pretty much inaccurate.

It's hard to understand now how much power the abolitionist movement actually had, and how much they did to make that war happen.


Interesting factoid from the same book: The southern Baptist churches were formed specifically to split off because the classic (northern Baptists) were so strongly anti-slavery and wanted it to be illegal.

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:23:26pm

re: #260 tradewind

Damn... you're pulling this stuff right out of my head. You should contact Foggy Bottom... they need people with your psyops skills.
Sigh. I'm pretty sure I haven't offered an opinion of Confederate History Month.

No, you haven't, but you have definitely been tetchy about people suggesting that McDonnell's decision had anything to do with racism or was improper. Even in the last thread, you came out swinging with dear old Bob Byrd's KKK past, as though slapping around old racist Democrats was going to neutralize this.

So what gives? Why so annoyed by the condemnation of McDonnell's Very Bad Decision, which is being criticized pretty much across the political board of LGF?

295 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:23:27pm

re: #288 McSpiff
You already know.... why waste the bandwidth asking me?

296 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:23:31pm

re: #290 palomino
Thank you.

297 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:23:49pm

re: #291 Charles

Wars are complex events with many causes. But without slavery, there would have been no Civil War.

Agreed. And I'd never claim otherwise. I just acknowledged SOL's comment as being partially accurate...at least that was my intention.

298 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:23:54pm

re: #273 theheat

I vote we relabel them The Dirty Sanchezes. Sounds more culturally unifying than teabaggers.

That was worth a giggle AND a snort!

299 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:23:57pm

re: #273 theheat

Can't do that, after all that name, Sanchez, ain't 'merikun enough for 'em.

//

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:24:19pm

re: #265 windsagio

Image: 2009-03-18-tea_bag_dems.jpg

Hmmmm...I'd never thought of teabagging as an aggressive act, per se.

301 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:24:19pm

re: #293 windsagio

Read a really good book about that a while ago, and that's pretty much inaccurate.

It's hard to understand now how much power the abolitionist movement actually had, and how much they did to make that war happen.

Interesting factoid from the same book: The southern Baptist churches were formed specifically to split off because the classic (northern Baptists) were so strongly anti-slavery and wanted it to be illegal.

I gladly stand corrected.

302 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:24:30pm

re: #256 HoosierHoops

I've never been to a tea party...
Do you Honest to God think all tea party people are bigots? That's a broad brush...Charles has done an expert job calling out the true bigots in that movement...And I think that is the proper way to address the Tea partiers..
I remember back in the primaries the Kos kiddies were going nuts and he called out that element of that blog...He wouldn't let it slide down the memory hole..He would cache the page and post about it...
Charles is an equal opportunity Blogger of nuts on both the left and right...

The TP organizers are often bigots. They're not just people in the movement, they're organizing the movement.

303 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:24:39pm

re: #245 keloyd

Ok, since you asked, Northern interests were perfectly happy to buy slave-grown cotton for its mills. Northern pols were perfectly happy to jack around with tariffs to help themselves and hurt the South. A few slave states fought with the North. Most 'free' states adjoining the South had morally indefensible laws re black residency and how to deal with runaways. History notwithstanding, that Virginian governor is a dog-whistling a clown catering indirectly to the Nirthers. Still, this nation has had an evil version of 'Dueling Banjos' with their revision of that war. I see a dozen cases of whitewashing here, some of which I addressed. A few excitable types may take this as dog whistling, but I know what I mean, and dinner + Guinness time approaches.

Also, yes, I was (what one thought was obviously) tongue-in-cheek when I said "I want to say...but I won't" then spent 6 lines saying the thing itself, so let's all be happy and mellow and enjoy the sunny weather and blooming flowers.

I've heard that argument raised before, but it's also important to note that the planter class of the South really did not want the mills and factories that would have given them leverage. They did not want such things since that would have meant others of wealth and power who would have competed with them. To say nothing of the fact that slaves would have been far less productive in running such things as free laborers were (though such laborers weren't free in many ways, they were no one's property).

304 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:24:45pm

re: #301 darthstar

haha sorry, I'm a bit worked up, and I was JUST reading about it.

You know how I get :D

305 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:24:54pm

re: #280 Sigma_x

Are there really people still left on earth who tries to argue that the Civil War was about anything OTHER than slavery?

Wow.

Yea :( They also say really bad things about Lincoln.

306 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:25:34pm

re: #305 marjoriemoon

They also say really bad things about Lincoln.

So does Luap Nor!

307 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:25:42pm

re: #280 Sigma_x

Are there really people still left on earth who tries to argue that the Civil War was about anything OTHER than slavery?

Wow.

yes, slavery was a behavior that inspired secession which directly resulted in war....that's the way I look at it....in another paradigm, it's possible some other cause inspired secession....in the end it's just splitting hairs and I see no drama to it

308 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:25:43pm

re: #276 darthstar
Michael Steele must have a deep-seated self-hating thing going on, since clearly there's no other reason for him to be a Republican.

309 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:25:48pm

re: #302 WindUpBird

The TP organizers are often bigots. They're not just people in the movement, they're organizing the movement.

Indeed. The people they attract aren't necessarily bigots, just extremely sheltered and ignorant people who are so afraid of 'the other' that they're willing to buy into any movement they think will give them a voice.

310 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:25:54pm

re: #270 darthstar

I don't know. I really don't take them seriously. But in their initial rallies, there were several people getting interviewed on Fox and actual news networks proudly claiming they were teabaggers (though in their defense, they were probably thinking 'Boston Tea Party' and not about tickling testicles with their tongues)

Well, initially, they used teabags a lot. They sent them to people, they wore them, they threw them...it made sense, except for the alternate meaning.

311 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:26:12pm

re: #295 tradewind

You already know... why waste the bandwidth asking me?

I don't know. I have no idea why you're apparently so uncomfortable stating your own opinions. I think the civil war was waged by the confederates so they could retain the dying institution of slavery. I think any specific recognition of the confederacy as a good thing is bad, and most likely racist.

Your turn.

312 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:26:13pm

re: #305 marjoriemoon

Yea :( They also say really bad things about Lincoln.

At this year's CPAC, there was a panel discussion sponsored by the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty, calling Abraham Lincoln a "war criminal."

313 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:26:24pm

re: #239 tradewind

No, no homophobia there.//

i realize that i'm piling on, but why do you assume that the act referenced is necessarily a homosexual one?

if anything, isn't it homo____ (i'm not sure what to put in the blank) to make that assumption in the first place?

i don't mean this strongly...it's more of an idle curiosity...but you did bring it up...

314 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:26:32pm

re: #286 windsagio

I think that has something to do with the 'get it into the textbooks' thing that we were talking about last week (or the week before?). That crap was widely taught for a while (I got it some in school too), and is also almost entirely untrue.

What is it that you think is untrue?

315 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:26:43pm

Help! I went looking for the Lincoln speech, letter, whatever it was where if he could preserve the Union by freeing only part of the slaves he'd do it. I can't remember if it was a speech or a letter to someone.

316 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:26:52pm

re: #273 theheat

I vote we relabel them The Dirty Sanchezes. Sounds more culturally unifying than teabaggers.

Sounds derogatory. Who says they're dirty? How about the Strawberry Sanchezes? (OK, I may not be going to hell, but I deserve to be kicked in the ankle.)

317 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:27:00pm

re: #308 tradewind

Yes. The appropriate response to this story is to criticize a black republican.
/
What the fuck is wrong with you today?

318 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:27:25pm

re: #308 tradewind

Michael Steele must have a deep-seated self-hating thing going on, since clearly there's no other reason for him to be a Republican.


Hey that's not fair, he could be a really rich black guy angling for a tax cut!

319 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:27:41pm

re: #312 Charles
Now I know Luap Nor is nuckin' futs!

320 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:27:43pm

re: #302 WindUpBird

The TP organizers are often bigots. They're not just people in the movement, they're organizing the movement.

"often" is such an underutilized word...

321 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:27:46pm

re: #314 Spare O'Lake

What is it that you think is untrue?

~~

the Civil War was primarily about stopping the Confederacy from forming their own nation and keeping all the lucrative profits from the cotton trade.

Its not true.

322 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:28:34pm

re: #320 Aceofwhat?

It lacks force, y'know? :p

323 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:28:37pm

re: #308 tradewind

Michael Steele must have a deep-seated self-hating thing going on, since clearly there's no other reason for him to be a Republican.

You really are all over the map, aren't you? So far, I haven't seen what Steele's reaction to this story is yet. My guess is, he'll probably go blow 40,000 dollars of RNC money on hookers for evangelical ministers in an effort to raise 376 dollars in campaign contributions. I really don't think Steele is dumb enough to think Confederate History Month is a good idea. He's stupid, but he's not that stupid.

324 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:28:42pm

re: #312 Charles

I was in a book shop in old town San Diego that had a book called "War crimes committed by the Union during the ware of northern aggression" I literally shuddered.

325 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:28:43pm

I'll give you the name on this one: George Mason. He was a Founding Father, and from Virginia.

"...such a trade is diabological in itself, and is disgraceful to mankind."

(This was in a debate on ending the slave trade.)

326 keloyd  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:28:45pm

When you claim "black soldiers fought in the Confederacy" it depends on what you mean by "black," "soldiers," and "fought." Charles, I substantively agree, but here's how you bend the logic all the way round.
"Black" in one case to my knowledge (but can't find a link now) refers to a 1/8 black naval officer whose family owned a plantation with slaves. He was white for all intents and purposes.
Many wealthy Southerners had servants in camp cook, clean, etc. They were black, and they were there, but "fought" or "soldiers" is a stretch indeed.

If you leave out all the nitpickey details, you could "interpret" those cases until "black" "soldiers" "fought" in the Confederacy.

327 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:29:01pm

re: #320 Aceofwhat?

"often" is such an underutilized word...

well it is better than "every one knows"

328 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:29:57pm

re: #291 Charles

Wars are complex events with many causes. But without slavery, there would have been no Civil War.

The truth is the Constitution said all men are created equal..
Slavery had to confront our founders words...People of principle knew this could not stand...And it erupted into the worst war in American history...
'All men are created equal'

329 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:30:03pm

I just posted on theothermccain's blog, trying to coax him into commenting on the issue. I wonder if he'll fall for it.

330 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:30:18pm

re: #312 Charles

At this year's CPAC, there was a panel discussion sponsored by the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty, calling Abraham Lincoln a "war criminal."

Never in my life have I heard those things about Lincoln until I started reading rightwing blogs some years ago. It's been said for some time. I had no idea.

331 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:30:44pm

re: #313 Aceofwhat?

i realize that i'm piling on, but why do you assume that the act referenced is necessarily a homosexual one?

if anything, isn't it homo___ (i'm not sure what to put in the blank) to make that assumption in the first place?

i don't mean this strongly...it's more of an idle curiosity...but you did bring it up...

Any couple with one scrotum between them can teabag.

If anything, the term is exclusionary of lesbians.

332 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:31:06pm

re: #330 marjoriemoon
Me either. Madness.

333 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:31:06pm

re: #328 HoosierHoops

Simply and perfectly said, Hoops.

It was self-evident.

334 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:31:14pm

re: #331 SanFranciscoZionist

Any couple with one scrotum between them can teabag.

If anything, the term is exclusionary of lesbians.

There's no end to their bigotry!

335 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:31:26pm

re: #317 Obdicut

Yes. The appropriate response to this story is to criticize a black republican.
/
What the fuck is wrong with you today?

sure it's fair....Steele condones the entire flip out of the GOP....he's a gutless fool and should be heavily criticized or better yet, fired

336 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:31:43pm

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist
Actually, I just have an aversion to pack-mentality piling on, and tend to object when it begins.
It is possible to object to this proclamation, for example, without believing that McDonnell kidnapped the Lindbergh baby, and equally possible to think a coal company negligent and in need of being held responsible without consigning them to the ranks of operators of slave-labor sweat shop.

337 ryannon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:31:44pm

re: #312 Charles

At this year's CPAC, there was a panel discussion sponsored by the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty, calling Abraham Lincoln a "war criminal."

Ever wonder what history would look like if it were the losers rather than the winners who wrote it?

338 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:31:44pm

re: #329 Sigma_x

So, in effect, you're trolling for a response. It doesn't make anyone look good to troll, no matter how of a piece of shit the blog writer may be.

339 keloyd  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:31:52pm

re: #303 Dark_Falcon

If Rome freed/ran out of slaves, how cool would it have been to have the Industrial Revolution 2000 years ago? We'd be in outer space and have robot butlers while we probably still blogged and fought about historical minutae on the internet.

340 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:32:07pm

re: #335 albusteve

sure it's fair...Steele condones the entire flip out of the GOP...he's a gutless fool and should be heavily criticized or better yet, fired

He's doing an excellent job...stop being so critical. I love Michael Steele and what he's done for the Republican Party so far.
;)

341 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:32:10pm

re: #326 keloyd

Please let it go. You're only hurting yourself by keeping going.

342 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:32:15pm

re: #326 keloyd

When you claim "black soldiers fought in the Confederacy" it depends on what you mean by "black," "soldiers," and "fought." Charles, I substantively agree, but here's how you bend the logic all the way round.
"Black" in one case to my knowledge (but can't find a link now) refers to a 1/8 black naval officer whose family owned a plantation with slaves. He was white for all intents and purposes.
Many wealthy Southerners had servants in camp cook, clean, etc. They were black, and they were there, but "fought" or "soldiers" is a stretch indeed.

If you leave out all the nitpickey details, you could "interpret" those cases until "black" "soldiers" "fought" in the Confederacy.

Even if one were to grant all the points in your post, so what? So fucking what? Is there a thesis statement? "Look, all the black people were totally cool with slavery and were totally on the Confederate side."

No, that's not what you're saying - right? (Please don't let it be what you're saying.)

So if that's not what you're saying, what the hell are you talking about? There probably was a black cook. Because they were SLAVES. As in, they were FORCED TO DO THINGS.

HELLO...

343 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:32:31pm

re: #329 Sigma_x

I just posted on theothermccain's blog, trying to coax him into commenting on the issue. I wonder if he'll fall for it.

I doubt the right wing blogs are going to mention it. Those who aren't neoConfederates don't want to draw attention to it and people like Malkin and RSM aren't brave enough to embrace it publicly.

344 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:32:42pm

re: #331 SanFranciscoZionist

Any couple with one scrotum between them can teabag.

If anything, the term is exclusionary of lesbians.

And aren't lesbians already being discriminated against in the world for all the happiness they bring it?

To each other by loving one another?

To straight women for giving them less competition for husbands

To straight men for being.... well lesbians...

Excuse me I'm tearing up a little......

345 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:32:49pm

re: #336 tradewind

Huge army of straw approaching!

346 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:32:52pm

So this is the month when the "darkies" all sing their traditional field work songs in fond remembrance and celebrate how they were allowed to eat the greens and vegetables that they could tend and grow next to their shanties on the plantation? (After they had already worked for twelve or fourteen hours in "the masters" fields of course)

What is the difference between celebrating "Confederate History" and making the founding date of the K.K.K. a national holiday? Really, can anyone explain what the difference would be, if any?

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:33:03pm

re: #315 pingjockey

Help! I went looking for the Lincoln speech, letter, whatever it was where if he could preserve the Union by freeing only part of the slaves he'd do it. I can't remember if it was a speech or a letter to someone.

In response to an editorial by Horace Greeley, demanding abolition:

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free

348 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:33:07pm

re: #339 keloyd

That made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

349 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:33:09pm

re: #336 tradewind

Actually, I just have an aversion to pack-mentality piling on, and tend to object when it begins.
It is possible to object to this proclamation, for example, without believing that McDonnell kidnapped the Lindbergh baby, and equally possible to think a coal company negligent and in need of being held responsible without consigning them to the ranks of operators of slave-labor sweat shop.

It's also possible to simply support him in this as well.

350 Lidane  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:33:11pm

Dear Gov. McDonnell,

Speaking as a Southern gal, may I make a statement about your declaration? Thanks kindly.

Let me put this in terms you can understand. The Confederacy tried to take a right turn in NASCAR. They lost. It's over. Can we please stop pimping this war as anything other than a failed war over slavery already?

Also, do the black folks in Virginia get to be honorary slaves for their pasty white neighbors in your declaration, since it only honors the sacrifices of the whites in Virginia? Inquiring minds want to know.

By the way, please note that the Civil War wasn't filled with a bunch of saintly knights in shining armor fighting against the evil, imperialist Fed to protect themselves. It also wasn't a goddamned movie filled with hoop skirts, Rhett Butler, and dramatic death scenes filmed in slow motion. It was more like this and this and this.

Stop fucking glorifying this war, Bob. And for the love of all that is holy, stop pandering to those neo-Confederate imbeciles who can't let the past go, and who use history as a way to mask their racism. You're from the South and should damn well know better than that.

No love,
Me

351 Randall Gross  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:33:26pm

The things you find when digging into this crapola. Clint Eastwood is also a member, and the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" was taken from a book written by a KKK'er...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]


yeeesh....

352 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:33:26pm

re: #338 TheMatrix31

So, in effect, you're trolling for a response. It doesn't make anyone look good to troll, no matter how of a piece of shit the blog writer may be.

?

353 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:33:39pm

re: #331 SanFranciscoZionist

Any couple with one scrotum between them can teabag.

If anything, the term is exclusionary of lesbians.

That's what i'm saying. I don't get why it's homo___ at all.

And lesbians have four breasts between them. I think they'll do just fine when the pros and cons are weighed...

354 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:34:03pm

So. Sick. Of. Race.

355 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:34:27pm

re: #345 prairiefire

Huge army of straw approaching!

Here

356 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:34:39pm

re: #336 tradewind

When you say consistantly dishonest and/or awful things, you have to expect a pigpile.

357 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:34:52pm

re: #340 darthstar

He's doing an excellent job...stop being so critical. I love Michael Steele and what he's done for the Republican Party so far.
;)

because you are steeped in partisanship...fine with me, I'm just an observer

358 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:34:53pm

re: #353 Aceofwhat?


yes but that would be "milk-bagging"

//

359 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:35:09pm

re: #349 McSpiff
Then go find them and complain.

360 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:35:13pm

re: #352 Sigma_x

Are you confused? You said you deliberately went over somewhere attempting to coax someone into responding. That's the definition of trolling. Whatever, its your business. I don't care much, just goes against what I've been trained to look out for by being a moderator on non-political sites.

361 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:35:50pm

re: #360 TheMatrix31


Matrix, do you have anything to say about the proclamation? Do you think it's a good thing? A bad thing? What?

362 tradewind  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:35:57pm

re: #356 windsagio
Turn, face mirror, repeat.

363 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:36:00pm

re: #354 TheMatrix31

Once we get rid of racism we can quit talking about race >>

Good luck, I know :p

364 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:36:06pm

re: #357 albusteve

because you are steeped in partisanship...fine with me, I'm just an observer

Gets out blackboard

Steeped...what else is steeped...tea is steeped...


STEVE IS A TEABAG! err, wait, no.. thats not right...

365 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:36:21pm

re: #336 tradewind

Actually, I just have an aversion to pack-mentality piling on, and tend to object when it begins.
It is possible to object to this proclamation, for example, without believing that McDonnell kidnapped the Lindbergh baby, and equally possible to think a coal company negligent and in need of being held responsible without consigning them to the ranks of operators of slave-labor sweat shop.

Uhh could you perhaps give us a reason that actually, well, you know...exists? I'm willing to listen if you have a legitimate complaint but none of the ones you have have mentioned seem to have any relevance...

366 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:36:38pm

re: #362 tradewind

2 things:

first of all, people aren't piling up on me

secondly, I'm not whining about it either.

367 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:37:04pm

re: #357 albusteve

because you are steeped in partisanship...fine with me, I'm just an observer

I love it when you call me partisan. :)

368 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:37:12pm

re: #364 McSpiff

Gets out blackboard

Steeped...what else is steeped...tea is steeped...

STEVE IS A TEABAG! err, wait, no.. thats not right...

the Blackboard never lies....
mwahahaha!

369 pingjockey  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:37:29pm

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist
Thank you. Back in the 60s when I was in grade school/jr. high we were taught the Civil War started as "States" rights issue then evolved into freeing the slaves. Having read a bunch since then, I don't know if the war started out off the bat to free the slaves or evolved into that. One thing, If Bobby Lee hadn't been stopped at Gettysburg things may have been mightily different.
Dinner is ready!
BBIAB

370 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:37:41pm

re: #367 darthstar

oh man, you should have done this:

Wow! Nobody's ever called me partisan before, upding for originality!

:D

371 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:37:43pm

re: #364 McSpiff

Gets out blackboard

Steeped...what else is steeped...tea is steeped...

STEVE IS A TEABAG! err, wait, no.. thats not right...

use the toy train...

372 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:37:52pm

You now what sucks?
This ain't still the Onion spoof thread, that's what sucks.

For shame.

373 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:37:59pm

re: #368 albusteve

the Blackboard never lies...
mwahahaha!

the chalk does...

374 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:38:16pm

re: #359 tradewind

Then go find them and complain.

The passive-aggressive wingnut act falls apart when you're being directly confronted. I've asked you directly several times...

Do you support this proclamation?

375 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:38:18pm

re: #370 windsagio

oh man, you should have done this:

:D

I would have, but Steve calls me a partisan all the time. Thanks for remembering, though...I do like using that comeback.

376 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:38:40pm

re: #361 Obdicut

I think it's pretty dumb, but there are bigger issues to worry about. Just way too fucking annoyed with anything having to do with race.

377 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:38:40pm

re: #372 Taqyia2Me

You now what sucks?
This ain't still the Onion spoof thread, that's what sucks.

For shame.

Frack: now = Know
pimf

378 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:38:44pm

re: #367 darthstar

I love it when you call me partisan. :)

/ you just crave the attention :)

379 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:39:12pm

re: #367 darthstar

I love it when you call me partisan. :)

Maybe not partisan, but you definitely come at things from a left-side POV.

380 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:39:16pm

re: #372 Taqyia2Me

You now what sucks?
This ain't still the Onion spoof thread, that's what sucks.

For shame.

That was my first reaction when I posted about this in the Onion thread.

381 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:39:54pm

re: #379 Dark_Falcon

Maybe not partisan, but you definitely come at things from a left-side POV.

Oh, hell, I'm so far left at times I think Dennis Kucinich is a wing-nut.

382 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:39:58pm

re: #6 Obdicut

To repost:

What the fuck are black people supposed to do to observe this month?

What should they do that in order "to understand the sacrifices of the Confederate leaders,"?

What sacrifice did the Confederate leaders make for the black residents of their states?

Should they just keep out of the way? What is actually going to happen?

Things are pretty fucking tense in the US right now, and there's a racial component to it. Is this really the fucking right time to be having parades and shit that will be clearly divided along racial lines?

This is potentially really goddamn dangerous.

I only regret that I have but one upding to give for this comment.

383 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:40:04pm

re: #372 Taqyia2Me

You now what sucks?
This ain't still the Onion spoof thread, that's what sucks.

For shame.

Shame is the perfect word. This is shameful. Period.

384 Randall Gross  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:40:07pm

Quake in Indonesia -- in twitter someone's saying 7.7 ...

385 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:40:28pm

re: #384 Thanos

7.8 on bbc

386 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:40:52pm

re: #336 tradewind

Actually, I just have an aversion to pack-mentality piling on, and tend to object when it begins.
It is possible to object to this proclamation, for example, without believing that McDonnell kidnapped the Lindbergh baby, and equally possible to think a coal company negligent and in need of being held responsible without consigning them to the ranks of operators of slave-labor sweat shop.

No one has said much of anything about McDonnell except that he knuckled under to a dubious group, and did a stupid thing, which is clearly true.

You, on the other hand, have absolutely refused to discuss the topic, or volunteer other interpretations for his behavior, while using every possible deflecting tactic possible.

Your business, I suppose.

387 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:40:54pm

re: #376 TheMatrix31

I think it's pretty dumb, but there are bigger issues to worry about. Just way too fucking annoyed with anything having to do with race.

I can't really understand what you mean by that, Matrix. Can you explain what it means to be too annoyed with anything having to do with race?

I have absolute no clue what that means. Is it like someone mentions that their friend is black and you growl, or someone says "Let's get Thai food" and you scream "You're the problem!" at them?

388 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:40:58pm

re: #331 SanFranciscoZionist

Any couple with one scrotum between them can teabag.

If anything, the term is exclusionary of lesbians.

lol btw the Dirty Sanchez is a southpark reference and is sexual also, but I don't know what it is exactly. And I'm afraid to ask at this point.

389 Randall Gross  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:41:06pm

re: #385 darthstar

7.8 on bbc

Near Sumatra

390 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:41:46pm

A-HA! - stacey mccain POSTED the comment. I wrote (and, bear in mind that I was operating "undercover", trying to goad him into posting a piece or something) "Hey, Stacey - chalk one up for the good guys!" and then put a link to the article on the confederate history month.

Now, I post over there sometimes calling him an asshole and telling him his wife's gonna leave him 'cause he's broke, etc. etc. (can't stand the guy) and he never posts THOSE comments.

But he posted that one in record time. No "awaiting moderation" on that one.

391 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:41:46pm

re: #385 darthstar

7.8 on bbc

7.9... do I hear 7.9 ? going once... going twice...

392 Uninformed Opinion  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:41:48pm

It is all about kicking the wasps nest and getting the crazies riled up, a horrible idea on a number of levels.

393 Randall Gross  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:42:03pm

[Link: earthquake.usgs.gov...]

USGS

394 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:42:12pm

re: #389 Thanos

Near Sumatra

Hopefully that doesn't trigger another Tsunami.

395 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:42:20pm

re: #385 darthstar

7.8 on bbc

USGS says 7.7...don't trust the Brits...they violate FOI requests with impunity/

396 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:42:23pm

Another Virginian President...the last one of these I'll post...

"Happy would it be for the unfortunate Africans, if an equal prospect lay before them, of being redeemed from the oppressions of their European brethren."

(Speaking of the abolition of the slave trade.)

397 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:42:23pm

re: #23 windsagio

In fairness (altho I'm not sure this is a better thing), I don't think he even knows the difference. That faction has been lying to themselves so long that they couldn't see the truth if it hung them from a tree for kissing a white woman.

Ouch!

398 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:42:49pm

re: #391 brookly red

SMACK!

399 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:42:54pm

re: #387 Obdicut

I can't really understand what you mean by that, Matrix. Can you explain what it means to be too annoyed with anything having to do with race?

I have absolute no clue what that means. Is it like someone mentions that their friend is black and you growl, or someone says "Let's get Thai food" and you scream "You're the problem!" at them?

It means what it means. I am sick and tired of race being a part of seemingly every single thing. I'm also sick of the race card being thrown around too. On blogs, in life, in politics, during comedy bits---everything. It's so annoying to hear.

Not really sure what was unclear about that.

400 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:42:56pm

I even signed it "Forrest."

401 Taqyia2Me  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:43:01pm

re: #380 darthstar

That was my first reaction when I posted about this in the Onion thread.

Good on you, DS!
And good on Charles for bringing this to the top of his page!
This crap don't fly. We gotta do something about this.

402 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:43:03pm

re: #384 Thanos

Quake in Indonesia -- in twitter someone's saying 7.7 ...

The earth isn't just getting warmer, it's fucking expanding. Chile, Mexico, Haiti, Indonesia...I'm getting the feeling that good ole Mother Nature is getting ready to break wind and blow us all off the planet at once.

403 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:43:19pm

re: #390 Sigma_x

Don't you feel accomplished?!?!?!?

404 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:43:46pm

re: #402 darthstar

Thousands of earthquakes happen every day. Some are big.

405 Randall Gross  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:43:51pm

pretty shallow water there...

[Link: neic.usgs.gov...]

406 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:44:32pm

re: #399 TheMatrix31

Its clear enough to me, but I don't think an Ostrich mentality is a good thing.

407 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:44:34pm

re: #181 HoosierHoops

Hey..I'm moving this summer by the University of Oklahoma in Norman.
I'm going to check out the Texas sports scene...See a Cowboys game..Get to know the Mavericks...We should meet up sometime.
/I will have to watch Houston when they play the Colts..


Don't know how large a city you are coming from, but if Norman isn't big enough for you, it's just outside Oklahoma City and not so very far from Dallas.
Oklahoma City has a fine NBA team- the Thunder is doing quite well in this, their 2nd season- just shellacked the Lakers the other day!

408 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:44:50pm

re: #403 TheMatrix31

Yes, I actually do. The guy's a piece of shit - for a variety of reasons - not least among which is he doesn't even have the guts to come out and admit that he's a racist and belongs to all these white supremacist organizations.

But he'll post a comment like that. What does THAT tell you?

409 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:44:57pm

re: #399 TheMatrix31

Again, I have no idea what you mean. Do you hate that people are talking about how incredibly racist this is on this blog?

Race isn't going to disappear. Hating it is not really a useful reaction. That's like saying you're just hating badness. It's an unassailable but useless position.

410 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:44:58pm

re: #388 marjoriemoon

It's in the urban dictionary. My favorite is "the santorum".

411 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:45:02pm

re: #376 TheMatrix31

I think it's pretty dumb, but there are bigger issues to worry about. Just way too fucking annoyed with anything having to do with race.

Maybe you should stay away for a while...avoid the annoyance....

Are you a member of any race yourself?

412 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:46:46pm

OK gotta go, but I just wanna close with this:

What the crap is wrong with us that we're so partisan to have people coming out of the woodwork to defend something this indefensible, or even try to deflect around it?


It's disgusting and maddening.

413 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:47:08pm

re: #398 Dark_Falcon

SMACK!

ewww, please refrain from kissing me in public.

414 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:47:47pm

re: #409 Obdicut

Again, I have no idea what you mean. Do you hate that people are talking about how incredibly racist this is on this blog?

Race isn't going to disappear. Hating it is not really a useful reaction. That's like saying you're just hating badness. It's an unassailable but useless position.

Useless it may be, that's just how I feel about it.

415 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:47:48pm

re: #354 TheMatrix31

So. Sick. Of. Race.

Man up. We're not done with it yet.

416 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:48:17pm

I just read the actual proclamation.

"Shared history" means "Your ancestor owned my ancestor and went to war to keep it that way."

Why are they bringing this up, again?

417 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:48:19pm

re: #399 TheMatrix31

It means what it means. I am sick and tired of race being a part of seemingly every single thing. I'm also sick of the race card being thrown around too. On blogs, in life, in politics, during comedy bits---everything. It's so annoying to hear.

Not really sure what was unclear about that.

CONFEDERATECONFEDERATECONFEDERATECONFEDERATECONFEDERATECONFEDERATECONFEDERATECONFEDERATECONFEDERATECONFEDERATE

Do you understand yet? Do you understand that a governor celebrating the Confederacy is bad craziness for reasonable humans, bad news for Republicans who aren't racist, and great news for Klansmen?

So yeah, guess you'll just have to be annoyed. You don't get to ignore race.

418 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:48:39pm

re: #350 Lidane

Great post, +1

419 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:48:49pm

re: #413 brookly red

ewww, please refrain from kissing me in public.

LOL!

420 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:49:29pm

re: #415 SanFranciscoZionist

Meh. It won't go away if morons on both sides keep harping about it and doing shit to exacerbate tensions, that's for sure.

421 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:49:40pm

re: #414 TheMatrix31

Useless it may be, that's just how I feel about it.

Well, it just looks to me like you're avoiding something that still is a very real problem in America, one that can't help but affect you and your loved ones, and that your position is not going to help one whit.

422 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:49:48pm

re: #417 Windupbird

What the fuck is wrong with you asshole? I already said it's dumb.

423 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:49:58pm

re: #399 TheMatrix31

It means what it means. I am sick and tired of race being a part of seemingly every single thing. I'm also sick of the race card being thrown around too. On blogs, in life, in politics, during comedy bits---everything. It's so annoying to hear.

Not really sure what was unclear about that.

I know right! It's just like... slavery is over right! And we totally let you have the vote, and you can even marry our women!! I don't know why they're making such a big deal out of it.

You sound seriously whiny. If the only racial hardship you ever have to face is simpyl listening about someone's experience of racism and discrimination you should thank your luck stars, not bitch and whine.

424 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:50:27pm

re: #414 TheMatrix31

Useless it may be, that's just how I feel about it.

I know you don't like to deal with race issues. I don't like it either, but it is an issue for America, and so we have to deal with it. We don't have to like it, we just have to act effectively.

425 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:50:39pm

re: #423 McSpiff


re: #423 McSpiff

I know right! It's just like... slavery is over right! And we totally let you have the vote, and you can even marry our women!! I don't know why they're making such a big deal out of it.

You sound seriously whiny. If the only racial hardship you ever have to face is simpyl listening about someone's experience of racism and discrimination you should thank your luck stars, not bitch and whine.

I was trying to think of the right words, and then YOU said them.

Cheers.

426 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:50:52pm

re: #388 marjoriemoon

lol btw the Dirty Sanchez is a southpark reference and is sexual also, but I don't know what it is exactly. And I'm afraid to ask at this point.

Google. I won't be held responsible for further damage to everyone's innocence.

427 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:50:55pm

re: #321 windsagio

Its not true.

The Southern cotton plantations and a good part of the rest of the economy and social structures were dependent upon slavery for their economic viability. In this sense, the South was built on a foundation of inhumanity and evil.
The South wanted to form their own nation where they could happily continue with this lucrative and exploitative system.
The North was not prepared to allow the South to secede from the Union, and the North was also abolitionist.
It would be interesting to know what Lincoln's reaction might have been if the South had proposed, for example, to abandon their secessionist goals in exchange for being allowed to keep the agricultural slaves while giving freedom to the non-agricultural slaves.
If one concedes that such a deal might have been entertained, then it is difficult to maintain that the war was not primarily about economics.

428 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:51:16pm

re: #396 EmmmieG

Another Virginian President...the last one of these I'll post...

"Happy would it be for the unfortunate Africans, if an equal prospect lay before them, of being redeemed from the oppressions of their European brethren."

(Speaking of the abolition of the slave trade.)

You'll never guess who i'm descended from (quite directly, actually)...

"Consenting to slavery is a sacrilegious breach of trust, as offensive in the sight of God as it is derogatory from our own honor or interest of happiness.”

429 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:51:26pm

re: #391 brookly red

7.9... do I hear 7.9 ? going once... going twice...

Seismology is more of an art than a science.

430 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:51:26pm

re: #354 TheMatrix31

So. Sick. Of. Race.

So says the guy with the luxury of not being denied jobs and housing because of his skin color or religion.

431 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:51:40pm

re: #426 SanFranciscoZionist

Google. I won't be held responsible for further damage to everyone's innocence.

A Dirty Sanchez is when you... oh, I can't even say it. It's so horrible. It makes tea-bagging seem sweet and innocent, is how bad it is.

432 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:52:04pm

re: #427 Spare O'Lake

Dear Canadian:

Please don't talk about the American Civil War right now, especially to speculate that Lincoln might have let the South secede.

Thanks.

An American.

433 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:52:36pm

re: #430 WindUpBird

So says the guy with the luxury of not being denied jobs and housing because of his skin color or religion.

I think thematrix31 would feel right at home over at one of michelle malkin's threads.

434 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:53:03pm

re: #407 Capitalist Tool

Don't know how large a city you are coming from, but if Norman isn't big enough for you, it's just outside Oklahoma City and not so very far from Dallas.
Oklahoma City has a fine NBA team- the Thunder is doing quite well in this, their 2nd season- just shellacked the Lakers the other day!

No..Norman is a College town.. Think I'll just hang around there for awhile
I love the Thunder...We all call them the Basketball Zombie team from Seattle..

435 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:53:05pm

just wondering... how many folks posting tonight are black?

I mean nothing by this, just curious.

436 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:53:11pm

re: #399 TheMatrix31

It means what it means. I am sick and tired of race being a part of seemingly every single thing. I'm also sick of the race card being thrown around too. On blogs, in life, in politics, during comedy bits---everything. It's so annoying to hear.

Not really sure what was unclear about that.

That's quite a challenge you're facing. I mean, it must be really hard for one to have to face hearing or reading about race everyday. It must pale in comparison to having the highest incarceration rates in the country; lower pay; higher rate of AIDs; urban school deficiencies; poverty; crime; health care. Why even our black president doesn't get any respect. Why those challenges pale in comparison to what you face.

437 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:53:44pm

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

There it is in black and white.

438 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:53:46pm

Here's the response from Stacey Mccain himself -


chalk one up for the good guys!

"Yeah, I saw that, but I’m on deadline tonight for another project, so I’ll wait until everybody’s posted their obligatory outrage before having anything to say directly."

439 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:53:47pm

re: #392 Uninformed Opinion

It is all about kicking the wasps nest and getting the crazies riled up, a horrible idea on a number of levels.

I'm glad Charles is making the most out of it by highlighting the crazy. Americans do not stand for "the crazy".

440 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:54:00pm

re: #421 Obdicut

Well, it just looks to me like you're avoiding something that still is a very real problem in America, one that can't help but affect you and your loved ones, and that your position is not going to help one whit.

Men don't ignore problems and pretend they'll go away without any action.

Ignorance doesn't solve problems.

441 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:54:10pm

re: #428 Aceofwhat?

You'll never guess who i'm descended from (quite directly, actually)...

"Consenting to slavery is a sacrilegious breach of trust, as offensive in the sight of God as it is derogatory from our own honor or interest of happiness.”

Yeah for you. He's cool; his wife was...incredible.

442 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:54:16pm

re: #420 TheMatrix31

Meh. It won't go away if morons on both sides keep harping about it and doing shit to exacerbate tensions, that's for sure.

There are two sides to race?

443 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:54:50pm

re: #435 brookly red

Given the percentages of internet-connected black households, and the lower percentage of blacks in the US, that number is probably pretty damn low.

Which, you know, is one indicator that the playing field still isn't level.

444 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:55:00pm

Here's what I just now posted in response to HIS post -

"You’re a fucking douche. I just wanted to see if you’d post the comment, asshole.
Congratulations on finally coming out of the closet."

445 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:55:00pm

re: #427 Spare O'Lake

The Southern cotton plantations and a good part of the rest of the economy and social structures were dependent upon slavery for their economic viability. In this sense, the South was built on a foundation of inhumanity and evil.
The South wanted to form their own nation where they could happily continue with this lucrative and exploitative system.
The North was not prepared to allow the South to secede from the Union, and the North was also abolitionist.
It would be interesting to know what Lincoln's reaction might have been if the South had proposed, for example, to abandon their secessionist goals in exchange for being allowed to keep the agricultural slaves while giving freedom to the non-agricultural slaves.
If one concedes that such a deal might have been entertained, then it is difficult to maintain that the war was not primarily about economics.

The south jumped the ship of state for fear that Lincoln would take away their slaves the moment (more or less) he got into power. I doubt anything he could have said would have convinced them to stay....

446 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:55:01pm

re: #442 SanFranciscoZionist

There are two sides to race?

Us and Them.

447 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:55:01pm

re: #435 brookly red

just wondering... how many folks posting tonight are black?

I mean nothing by this, just curious.

i'm half English, half German. i think that when we rank the list of "nationalities which have a legitimate peeve about race", i come in somewhere close to DEAD LAST...

448 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:55:04pm

re: #350 Lidane

i regret only having one upding for your comment - which, as ever, combined with your avatar, should equal a gazillion updings.

449 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:55:08pm

re: #436 Gus 802

And to think, if those southern patriots had won there wouldn't be any discrimination or any of that, all those negroes would be gainfully employed and have housing to this day...

//

450 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:55:27pm

re: #431 Sigma_x

A Dirty Sanchez is when you... oh, I can't even say it. It's so horrible. It makes tea-bagging seem sweet and innocent, is how bad it is.

Tea-bagging is not particularly gross.

A Dirty Sanchez is.

451 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:56:16pm

re: #435 brookly red

just wondering... how many folks posting tonight are black?

I mean nothing by this, just curious.

White are the purely driven snow more or less (well pink as a peach) due to my habit of avoiding direct sunlight whenever possible.

452 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:56:30pm

re: #433 Sigma_x

I think thematrix31 would feel right at home over at one of michelle malkin's threads.

And I think you are an ass for saying that. A lot of people are tired of talking about race, me included. I smack down Neo-Confederates and other racists whenever I run across them, but it's irksome duty I'm tired of. I wish the racists would come to see reality, but they will not. So race issues will keep coming up.

453 Uninformed Opinion  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:56:59pm

re: #439 prairiefire

I'm glad Charles is making the most out of it by highlighting the crazy. Americans do not stand for "the crazy".

But Americans also do not want to believe it. I live in a conservative area, and reasonable people here DO NOT WANT TO BELIEVE that the crazy is out there, or that it is getting worse.

454 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:57:16pm

re: #420 TheMatrix31

Meh. It won't go away if morons on both sides keep harping about it and doing shit to exacerbate tensions, that's for sure.

Both sides? So those against racism just need to shut the fuck up and be more tolerant of intolerance?

455 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:57:57pm

re: #446 McSpiff

Us and Them.

Sigh.

456 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:58:01pm

re: #441 EmmmieG

Who????

457 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:58:02pm

re: #443 Obdicut

Given the percentages of internet-connected black households, and the lower percentage of blacks in the US, that number is probably pretty damn low.

Which, you know, is one indicator that the playing field still isn't level.

so I assume you are not black?

458 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:58:03pm

re: #354 TheMatrix31

So. Sick. Of. Race.

I'm sick of addle-brained folks being racist. For me, there's this little step where if folks stop being racists, race won't matter as much.

Thus the point of the thread. Mind the little step.

459 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:58:08pm

Most people in the US today (save for the most recent immigrant families) have at least some ancestry going back to the early days of settlement and many surprises wait in store for them if they ever get into ancestry research (a pointless exercise, imho).
Many will find ancestors and ties to both sides of that hideous conflict and to both sides of the slavery ownership question. We're a mixed bunch.

460 keloyd  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:58:36pm

While we scapegoat 'the other' for slavery, we're not done with tribalism and racism. The United States, not distant, backward rednecks thousands of miles away, embraced slavery. We embraced slavery. Historically, blaming the South is scapegoating.

In the short term, it's pretty obvious this Virginia governor is dog whistling. We should clarify the historical record and still be against this nonsense, if we all stay calm. No more flamewarring for me tonight.

461 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:58:53pm

re: #452 Dark_Falcon

"but it's irksome duty I'm tired of.."

Poor you. Imagine how rough it would be if you ever actually had to encounter racism personally?

462 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:59:01pm

re: #442 SanFranciscoZionist

Political parties.

463 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:59:13pm

re: #457 brookly red

Nope. I'm Jewish and Scandinavian in heritage. I'm also Hispanic, though that's not a race.

Why are you asking? I don't think anyone is going to buy that you suddenly got curious about the racial makeup of LGF.

464 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 4:59:49pm

re: #428 Aceofwhat?

Ace, who are you related to that said that? EmmieG is 50x smarter then me, so you will have to tell me.

465 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:00:02pm

re: #433 Sigma_x

I think thematrix31 would feel right at home over at one of michelle malkin's threads.

you're a real asshole for that comment...either you didn't follow or you just need to be a prick....I'm sick of your shit too

466 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:00:09pm

re: #432 Obdicut

I am not in any way suggesting that Lincoln might have let the South secede. I am however wondering whether Lincoln might have partially deferred abolition if the South had been prepared to lay down their weapons and abandon their secessionist aims.

467 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:00:28pm

re: #464 prairiefire

Ace, who are you related to that said that? EmmieG is 50x smarter then me, so you will have to tell me.

John Adams (and John Quincy, too).

468 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:00:34pm

re: #461 Sigma_x

How the hell do you know what race/background D_F is? How do you know what kind of adversity he has or hasn't faced?

For that matter, for the person who called me out on never being discriminated against or whatever----how the hell do you know what I am or am not? How do you know what I've been through? How do you know what my people have been through?

People need to stop making assumptions.

469 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:01:08pm

re: #467 Aceofwhat?

OMG!!!! So awesome.

470 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:01:11pm

re: #456 prairiefire

John Adams.

471 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:01:28pm

re: #452 Dark_Falcon

And I think you are an ass for saying that. A lot of people are tired of talking about race, me included. I smack down Neo-Confederates and other racists whenever I run across them, but it's irksome duty I'm tired of. I wish the racists would come to see reality, but they will not. So race issues will keep coming up.

There's a difference between being tired of the issue because of fatigue (yourself) and being tired of it because you don't think it's a big deal (Matrix).

You're not the same as him, you're not dismissive of it like he is.

472 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:01:34pm

Laaate to the thread. Great posts everyone.

Whenever someone tries to qualify, explain away, or is sick of race being discussed, well that's all I need to know. You pretty much allow me to form an opinion of you, and in my mind you are not coming from an enlightened place.

473 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:01:41pm

re: #462 TheMatrix31

Political parties.

Not true. I have a number of Republicans in my family who are not racists. Don't paint one party as racist and the other as not...noone else here is doing that. Hell, noone's even painting Southerners as racists. It's the actions of one shit-for-brains governor (McDonnell) that has everyone riled up. Keep it in perspective.

474 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:02:08pm

re: #462 TheMatrix31

Political parties.

it never fails, a Republican does something racist and guys like you bring up democrats.

Never ever fails

475 webevintage  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:02:13pm

re: #3 jamesfirecat

"Why do people in the south insist on renacting the Civil War so much, are they gonna win it this time?"

A quote from my brother after moving towards the equator to attend William And Mary from our home in Maryland.

They tried to win it on SouthPark...of course they were also fighting for "the schnapps with the delightful taste of s'mores."....

476 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:02:23pm

re: #460 keloyd

First of all: Much of the United States did not embrace Slavery.

These are the figures in 1770:

New Hampshire had 654 slaves and one percent of the total. Massachusetts had 4,754 and 2 percent. Connecticut had 5,698 and 3 percent. Rhode Island had 3,761 and 6 percent. New York had 19,062 and 12 percent. New Jersey had 8,220 and 7 percent. Pennsylvania had 5,561 and 2 percent. Delaware had 1,836 and 5 percent. Maryland had 63,818 and 32 percent. Virginia had 187,600 and 42 percent. North Carolina had 69,600 and 35 percent. South Carolina had 75,168 and 61 percent. Georgia had 15,000 and 45 percent

Slavery was a southern institution at the foundation of the United States of America. Its highest rate in the North was smaller the the smallest rate in the South.

Presenting it as an equal problem across the entire United States is not historically accurate.

477 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:02:53pm

re: #459 Capitalist Tool

Most people in the US today (save for the most recent immigrant families) have at least some ancestry going back to the early days of settlement and many surprises wait in store for them if they ever get into ancestry research (a pointless exercise, imho).
Many will find ancestors and ties to both sides of that hideous conflict and to both sides of the slavery ownership question. We're a mixed bunch.

Just wait until they get their DNA analyzed and find out they are genetically tied to both sides of the slavery ownership question. We're a mixed bunch.

478 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:03:09pm

Virginia need a governor like the kind of man (or woman) she once produced.

479 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:03:18pm

re: #463 Obdicut

Nope. I'm Jewish and Scandinavian in heritage. I'm also Hispanic, though that's not a race.

Why are you asking? I don't think anyone is going to buy that you suddenly got curious about the racial makeup of LGF.

Really so am I, well actually I did wonder how many blacks were being represented in a racism thread, but I really don't care what you buy, really at all.

480 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:03:23pm

OT:
Mumbai gunmen 'secretly buried in January', India says


The bodies of nine gunmen killed in the 2008 attacks on Mumbai have been secretly buried, Indian officials say.

Maharashtra state home minister RR Patil gave no location or date, saying only the burials had been in January.

The men remained unburied for more than a year after Indian Muslims opposed giving them space in their graveyards.

...

How many other religions have refused space in their graveyards for killers? I've honestly never heard of this before. Good on the Indian Muslim community for preventing these creeps from becoming martyrs.

481 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:03:30pm

re: #161 keloyd

[snip]

I WANT to point out ...
[snip]

You just did.

482 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:03:38pm

re: #468 TheMatrix31

So far you've taken me to task for "trolling" mccain's site, saying so-and-so would probably be right at home on malkin's page, and insinuating that a (presumably) white person is a whiny fuck for having the temerity to bemoan a black person "playing the race card (whatever the fuck THAT means.)

Weird.

483 zora  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:03:43pm

re: #162 tradewind

i'm from petersburg, va and have visited the battlefields nearby and know the history. nothing that you have said or inferred has anything to do with research and everything to do with ideas you had already formed. there is no defending this bullshit.

484 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:03:58pm

re: #476 Obdicut

First of all: Much of the United States did not embrace Slavery.

These are the figures in 1770:

New Hampshire had 654 slaves and one percent of the total. Massachusetts had 4,754 and 2 percent. Connecticut had 5,698 and 3 percent. Rhode Island had 3,761 and 6 percent. New York had 19,062 and 12 percent. New Jersey had 8,220 and 7 percent. Pennsylvania had 5,561 and 2 percent. Delaware had 1,836 and 5 percent. Maryland had 63,818 and 32 percent. Virginia had 187,600 and 42 percent. North Carolina had 69,600 and 35 percent. South Carolina had 75,168 and 61 percent. Georgia had 15,000 and 45 percent

Slavery was a southern institution at the foundation of the United States of America. Its highest rate in the North was smaller the the smallest rate in the South.

Presenting it as an equal problem across the entire United States is not historically accurate.

The New England ports did some good business bringing in slaves, though.

485 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:04:06pm

I'm telling you, it's threads like this that show you who's who and what's what.

486 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:04:28pm

re: #482 Sigma_x

Get over yourself dude.

487 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:04:44pm

re: #485 Sigma_x

I'm telling you, it's threads like this that show you who's who and what's what.

Some I'm exposed as a historian?

Dang. There goes my cover.

488 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:04:46pm

re: #485 Sigma_x

I'm telling you, it's threads like this that show you who's who and what's what.

i am a meat popsicle

489 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:04:49pm

re: #480 McSpiff

OT:
Mumbai gunmen 'secretly buried in January', India says

How many other religions have refused space in their graveyards for killers? I've honestly never heard of this before. Good on the Indian Muslim community for preventing these creeps from becoming martyrs.

I heard about this at the time. Good on them indeed.

490 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:04:59pm

re: #434 HoosierHoops

No..Norman is a College town.. Think I'll just hang around there for awhile
I love the Thunder...We all call them the Basketball Zombie team from Seattle..


Yes, Norman is a cool town in it's own right. You might want to get over the 'Basketball Zombie' meme, though. Tell me about the Indianapolis Colts...
The Hornets loved it in OKC while we hosted them during the rebuild, and more than a few players liked it here so well that they wanted to stay. Oh, well.
I'm not originally from OKC, but I love it here.

491 Uninformed Opinion  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:05:37pm

I think the ad hominem needs to go.

492 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:05:43pm

re: #477 wrenchwench

I hate myself for owning me?

493 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:05:57pm

re: #485 Sigma_x

I'm telling you, it's threads like this that show you who's who and what's what.

well they all do really.

494 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:06:13pm

re: #458 Aceofwhat?

I'm sick of addle-brained folks being racist. For me, there's this little step where if folks stop being racists, race won't matter as much.

Thus the point of the thread. Mind the little step.

let's smoke 'em out here and give 'em what!...you go left, I'll go right

495 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:06:22pm

re: #461 Sigma_x

"but it's irksome duty I'm tired of.."

Poor you. Imagine how rough it would be if you ever actually had to encounter racism personally?

I'm glad I haven't had to face a situation like that. Still, don't jump on me. Yes the duty of sandbagging racists is irksome, but I do it willingly because it needs to be done. It's irksome because race shouldn't be a n issue, but it stays because of assholes who are indifferent to reality.

496 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:06:50pm

re: #492 Dreggas

I hate myself for owning me?

/no Buddhism does not work like that ;)

497 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:06:54pm

re: #484 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. And the signers accepted the 2/3rds compromise. And blacks were treated terribly shabbily in the North and exploited.

But in terms of an institution tied to the culture, slavery was Southern, through and through, at the start of the United States, and slavery quickly diminished in the North after.

498 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:07:03pm

re: #494 albusteve

let's smoke 'em out here and give 'em what!...you go left, I'll go right

meet you at the back...

499 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:07:26pm

re: #477 wrenchwench

Yep.

500 justaminute  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:07:30pm

Hi everybody! You know racism is not dead when your beautiful white daughter takes her tall, handsome African-American boy fiend out to dinner. It's sad at the look that they get and from people you would not expect.

501 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:07:32pm

Aftermath of the Civil War:

Disfranchisement after Reconstruction era

Poll taxes

In Florida, Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, North and South Carolina, and in some northern and western states, proof of having paid taxes or poll taxes was made a prerequisite to voting.

Educational and character requirements

Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, and South Carolina established an educational requirement, with review by a local registrar of a voter's qualifications. In 1898 Georgia rejected such a device.

Eight box law

By 1882, the Democrats in South Carolina were firmly in power. Republicans were contained in the heavily black counties of Beaufort and Georgetown.

White Primary

About the turn of the century, the Democratic Party in some southern states began to treat its operations as a "private club" and insist on white primaries, barring black and other minority voters who managed to get through other barriers.

Laws or Constitutions Permitting "White Primaries" in former Confederacy in 1900

Alabama
Arkansas
Florida
Georgia
Louisiana
Mississippi
North Carolina
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Virginia

Note: Pay attention to the states and not the parties mentioned.

502 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:07:48pm

re: #477 wrenchwench

Just wait until they get their DNA analyzed and find out they are genetically tied to both sides of the slavery ownership question. We're a mixed bunch.

My grandfather on my mother's side supported the IRA...of course, they were in Ireland. My great-grandfather on my father's side was a Mississippi River Boat pilot(I don't know his name though)...he named my grandfather "Ralph Emerson McCabe"...I like knowing that someone in my family tree thought enough of Ralph Waldo Emerson to name his kid after him.

It's probably why I like the transcendental nightfall of diamonds so much. :) (I know...it's 'transitive nightfall')

503 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:07:53pm

re: #495 Dark_Falcon

I'm glad I haven't had to face a situation like that. Still, don't jump on me. Yes the duty of sandbagging racists is irksome, but I do it willingly because it needs to be done. It's irksome because race shouldn't be a n issue, but it stays because of assholes who are indifferent to reality.

e?

It "stays an issue" because there's still a bunch of stupid, cowardly racists in this country. Period.

504 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:07:55pm

re: #488 Aceofwhat?

i am a meat popsicle

/ fine... now get back on your stick and into the freezer...

505 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:08:40pm

re: #485 Sigma_x

Sigma, Dark Falcon is good people and in no way should his 'tired' comment be read as a protestation of privilege. I haven't heard him say a single thing that verges on racist on any occasion.

He is occasionally, in my opinion, too inclined to give others the best possible interpretation, at worst.

506 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:08:53pm

re: #485 Sigma_x

I'm telling you, it's threads like this that show you who's who and what's what.

from an expert eh?...try being pleasant first, then if someone attacks you for no reason, it becomes more clears what's what

507 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:09:06pm

re: #500 justaminute

Hi everybody! You know racism is not dead when your beautiful white daughter takes her tall, handsome African-American boy fiend out to dinner. It's sad at the look that they get and from people you would not expect.

...just point out a funny typo.

I'd look funny at a fiend, too.

508 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:09:11pm

Has the SCV ever publicly denounced slavery?

509 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:09:22pm

re: #490 Capitalist Tool

Yes, Norman is a cool town in it's own right. You might want to get over the 'Basketball Zombie' meme, though. Tell me about the Indianapolis Colts...
The Hornets loved it in OKC while we hosted them during the rebuild, and more than a few players liked it here so well that they wanted to stay. Oh, well.
I'm not originally from OKC, but I love it here.

I'm looking forward to moving there soon..I'm a huge fan of Ball but the Zombie theme stays with the Thunder.. OK.. Till I move there..
*wink*

510 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:09:44pm

Oh crap...it's after five...time to go home...play nice everyone.

511 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:09:47pm

re: #506 albusteve

Yeah, I'd post my response, but apparently I'd be more inclined to fit @ MM's site.

///

512 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:09:47pm
513 Sigma_x  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:10:02pm

re: #508 eclectic infidel

Has the SCV ever publicly denounced slavery?

Yeah, yesterday. Right before the Governor signed the proclamation.

514 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:10:14pm

re: #504 brookly red

/ just watch out for splinters.

515 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:11:24pm

Late to the thread. I hope we're not talking secession again--they've hardly finished repairing Atlanta.

516 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:11:37pm

re: #503 Sigma_x

e?

It "stays an issue" because there's still a bunch of stupid, cowardly racists in this country. Period.


You will find them everywhere, not just in this country.
Men are men. Or more appropriately, people are people.

517 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:11:55pm

Drive-by post.

Good grief.

My governor is going to get a letter about this.

518 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:12:06pm

re: #500 justaminute

My friends and I get funny to dirty looks from blacks when we go out for drinks. Usually the black guys make crude comments to my female friends who are black and the black women just tend to glare in general. And I know from experience that if I was up north in Sonoma County with the same friends, I'd get plenty of funny to dirty looks from all the lily white folk there. Racism is definitely alive and well. Even in Northern California.

519 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:12:08pm

re: #500 justaminute

Hi everybody! You know racism is not dead when your beautiful white daughter takes her tall, handsome African-American boy fiend out to dinner. It's sad at the look that they get and from people you would not expect.

Is 'boy fiend' a typo, or just the Freudian slip of the nervous father of a teenage girl?

/

520 JTBKSC  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:12:09pm

re: #351 Thanos

The things you find when digging into this crapola. Clint Eastwood is also a member, and the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" was taken from a book written by a KKK'er...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

yeeesh...

Do you have a source for Clint Eastwood being a member of the Klan? That's a pretty bold claim.

521 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:12:56pm

re: #500 justaminute

Hi everybody! You know racism is not dead when your beautiful white daughter takes her tall, handsome African-American boy fiend out to dinner. It's sad at the look that they get and from people you would not expect.

I live in a multicultural city so it's not an issue here, but I know it is elsewhere. Pity.

Speaking of which, I visited Denver back in 1998 and was kinda surprised at the multi-racialness of it! Happily surprised. It was a really hip city.

522 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:13:27pm

I'm in Oakland, CA. btw.

523 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:13:27pm

re: #520 JTBKSC

Do you have a source for Clint Eastwood being a member of the Klan? That's a pretty bold claim.

i think he meant a member of the SCV, as per the topic of the thread...

524 Randall Gross  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:13:41pm

re: #520 JTBKSC

Do you have a source for Clint Eastwood being a member of the Klan? That's a pretty bold claim.

I didn't say that next time read for comprehension you idiot

525 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:13:42pm

re: #520 JTBKSC

member of the SCV, not the KKK.

526 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:14:25pm

re: #520 JTBKSC

Do you have a source for Clint Eastwood being a member of the Klan? That's a pretty bold claim.

I was going to let that slide, but since you went there I would love to hear reply.

527 zora  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:14:26pm

re: #262 Dreggas

that's hilarious.

528 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:14:29pm

re: #518 eclectic infidel

My friends and I get funny to dirty looks from blacks when we go out for drinks. Usually the black guys make crude comments to my female friends who are black and the black women just tend to glare in general. And I know from experience that if I was up north in Sonoma County with the same friends, I'd get plenty of funny to dirty looks from all the lily white folk there. Racism is definitely alive and well. Even in Northern California.

Dude..I'm from Napa...If you think there is racism in NorCal.. Move to Indiana for a few years...

529 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:14:33pm

re: #521 marjoriemoon

it still is :-)

i found the vibe to be pretty good when i was there a cou0ple of months back.

530 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:14:57pm

re: #518 eclectic infidel

My fiance is part black and latina. I, of course, am lily-white. We even get weird looks here in So-Cal. Sadly it was stressful taking her back to upstate NY given that I lived in a lily-white town there growing up and they weren't known for being "enlightened" on matters of race.

531 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:15:19pm

re: #523 Aceofwhat?

re: #525 wozzablog

never mind...

532 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:15:48pm

re: #531 brookly red

re: #525 wozzablog

never mind...

i'm here to help

533 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:16:10pm

re: #521 marjoriemoon

I live in a multicultural city so it's not an issue here, but I know it is elsewhere. Pity.

Speaking of which, I visited Denver back in 1998 and was kinda surprised at the multi-racialness of it! Happily surprised. It was a really hip city.


Denver is where I first heard the terms ____ and _____ ____ and a few other fine racist epithets, from more than one source.
Similarly, I got an education in MA, much earlier in my youth. Nastiness is not confined by lines on a map.

534 Randall Gross  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:16:15pm

re: #526 brookly red

Read the comment -- I did not say CE was a member of the Klan. I did say that the Movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" was based on a book by a white supremacist, who was in the KKK . Please read for comprehension.

535 justaminute  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:16:17pm

re: #490 Capitalist Tool


I live in OKC too. I bought my husband season tickets for our mighty Thunder so my husband would quit looking at my credit card statements. It worked!

We did not steal our basketball team, they threw them away.

536 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:16:34pm

re: #532 Aceofwhat?

i'm here to help

ka-chick...

from da gubermint heh?

537 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:17:34pm

re: #534 Thanos

Read the comment -- I did not say CE was a member of the Klan. I did say that the Movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" was based on a book by a white supremacist, who was in the KKK . Please read for comprehension.

I already stood down...

538 Coachrichard  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:17:39pm

re: #103 tradewind

It's not the Onion. There are black Confederate re-enactors, just as there were black confederate troops.

Yep, and there was a Jew in the SS too.

Not that he actually WANTED to be there you understand.

539 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:17:51pm

re: #530 Dreggas

The first time I experienced that kind of behavior I was almost stunned. Now it just angers me every time, though I keep it to myself.

Interestingly, I've seen the most interracial couples back east - as compared to here, anyway. At a business conference in Cincinnati about 10 years ago now, I noticed more intermingling between whites and blacks and definitely more mixed couples. It was comforting but also bothersome to know first hand that San Francisco (where I lived at the time) most certainly wasn't that way.

540 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:17:53pm

re: #536 brookly red

ka-chick...

from da gubermint heh?

Pam? I just need to ask you a few questions...hello? Ms. Geller?

/

541 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:18:54pm

re: #535 justaminute

I live in OKC too. I bought my husband season tickets for our mighty Thunder so my husband would quit looking at my credit card statements. It worked!

We did not steal our basketball team, they threw them away.

Seattle acted in a shameful manner..Even small market Indy can house a NBA team in a world class facility..

542 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:19:16pm

Didn't Virginia have the first black governor?

543 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:19:32pm

night everybody.

544 JTBKSC  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:19:37pm

re: #524 Thanos

Thanks for the clarification.

545 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:19:39pm

re: #535 justaminute

Cool! There was at least one more of us, a year or so ago, but he flounced.

546 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:19:41pm

re: #291 Charles

Wars are complex events with many causes. But without slavery, there would have been no Civil War.

It was Darwin's fault.//

547 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:20:05pm

re: #538 Coachrichard

Yep, and there was a Jew in the SS too.

Not that he actually WANTED to be there you understand.

I feel it's just about time to bring up this pic....

[Link: www.ratemyeverything.net...]

548 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:20:10pm

re: #541 HoosierHoops

Seattle acted in a shameful manner..Even small market Indy can house a NBA team in a world class facility..

ironic... here in Brooklyn we are getting the Nets & we don't want them.

549 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:21:00pm

re: #548 brookly red

ironic... here in Brooklyn we are getting the Nets & we don't want them.

nor should you. they're from Jersey. need we say more?

550 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:21:06pm

Shit racism is everywhere, I'll post some examples from my home town just to be fair.

[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

Racism is alive and well in Canada.

551 justaminute  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:21:11pm

re: #507 EmmmieG

That made me laugh. My huband is praying he is not a fiend.

552 Randall Gross  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:21:16pm

re: #544 JTBKSC

You will find that Clint is listed as a member of SCV, along with Trent Lott, Both Talmadges, Rick Perry and a host of other neoconfederate ex-dixiecrats.

553 recusancy  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:21:27pm

re: #542 Obdicut

Didn't Virginia have the first black governor?

Yup. Wilder in '89

554 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:21:31pm

re: #548 brookly red

ironic... here in Brooklyn we are getting the Nets & we don't want them.

send them to ABQ...this town would love a pro team (not that the team would want to be here)....people here are crazy for every sport

555 Uninformed Opinion  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:22:17pm

re: #521 marjoriemoon

I live in a multicultural city so it's not an issue here, but I know it is elsewhere. Pity.

Speaking of which, I visited Denver back in 1998 and was kinda surprised at the multi-racialness of it! Happily surprised. It was a really hip city.

re: #533 Capitalist Tool

Denver is where I first heard the terms ___ and ___ ___ and a few other fine racist epithets, from more than one source.
Similarly, I got an education in MA, much earlier in my youth. Nastiness is not confined by lines on a map.

Denver seems pretty pretty good to me, but I do not spend time there. The western slope of colorado gets down right nasty at times. The klan was endemic here, I am still reading the history about it.

556 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:22:22pm

What's with the ragging on Jersey? My ex calls it the armpit of the East - she's from Plainsview Long Island herself.

557 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:22:37pm

re: #554 albusteve


send them to ABQ...

they almost got the Isotopes.......

558 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:22:38pm

One thing I've heard from various Southerners goes like: "Why, slavery was a dying institution and we would have got rid of 'em on our own, but honor demanded that we defend our freedom from Yankee intrusion."

559 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:23:01pm

re: #542 Obdicut

Didn't Virginia have the first black governor?

Seems to have been a governor for during Reconstruction, when federal control distorted the electorate.

560 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:23:29pm

re: #559 Decatur Deb

PIMF: link--[Link: encyclopedia.jrank.org...]

561 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:23:33pm

re: #557 wozzablog

they almost got the Isotopes...

who did?....they are extremely popular down here

562 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:23:50pm

re: #550 McSpiff

Shit racism is everywhere, I'll post some examples from my home town just to be fair.

[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

Racism is alive and well in Canada.

It's alive and well everywhere. Get a native Belgian to tell you in private what they think of Arabic immigrants. Not pretty.

Doesn't give us the slightest excuse for this crap, though...(not that you were implying otherwise)

563 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:24:16pm

re: #559 Decatur Deb

Seems to have been a governor for during Reconstruction, when federal control distorted the electorate.

Nah Wilder happened in the late 1980's. He even ran for president in 1992 in the Dem primary I believe.

564 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:24:53pm

re: #549 Aceofwhat?

nor should you. they're from Jersey. need we say more?

no it was more a matter of seizing homes (some in a landmark zone) under eminent domain and building a stadium in a brownstone neighborhood... another reason why I parted with the left.

565 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:25:16pm

re: #562 Aceofwhat?

It's alive and well everywhere. Get a native Belgian to tell you in private what they think of Arabic immigrants. Not pretty.

Doesn't give us the slightest excuse for this crap, though...(not that you were implying otherwise)


Well, even the Belgians suffer- they're considered the aggies of Europe.
No Aggie Joakes!

566 palomino  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:25:28pm

re: #399 TheMatrix31

It means what it means. I am sick and tired of race being a part of seemingly every single thing. I'm also sick of the race card being thrown around too. On blogs, in life, in politics, during comedy bits---everything. It's so annoying to hear.

Not really sure what was unclear about that.

You really think you're gonna hear less of talk of race as the nation moves towards overall minority-majority status?

Sorry, but it's a big part of our history and still informs much of our debate. Trying to ignore it is a losing battle.

567 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:25:46pm

re: #554 albusteve

send them to ABQ...this town would love a pro team (not that the team would want to be here)...people here are crazy for every sport

if i could i would.

568 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:25:49pm

re: #558 Capitalist Tool

One thing I've heard from various Southerners goes like: "Why, slavery was a dying institution and we would have got rid of 'em on our own, but honor demanded that we defend our freedom from Yankee intrusion."

yikes. i'd ask how much honor a slaver has laying around to be protected in the first place...

569 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:25:51pm

re: #564 brookly red

I remember that! It was terrible. Seizing homes for the sake of retail. Fucked up.

570 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:26:01pm

re: #533 Capitalist Tool

Denver is where I first heard the terms ___ and ___ ___ and a few other fine racist epithets, from more than one source.
Similarly, I got an education in MA, much earlier in my youth. Nastiness is not confined by lines on a map.

Well, of course, but I've traveled pretty extensively and there are places in this country where segregation is alive and well.

571 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:26:13pm

re: #548 brookly red

ironic... here in Brooklyn we are getting the Nets & we don't want them.

I'm not sure why.. You will have Russian Billionaire for an owner..
Players follow the money.. Remember during the NBA lockout.. The whole world found out Millionaire players live from paycheck to paycheck?
That was great...It made me a happy man...
Players will follow the money...Right down to your Neighborhood.. Get season tickets now!

572 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:26:29pm

re: #563 HappyWarrior

Nah Wilder happened in the late 1980's. He even ran for president in 1992 in the Dem primary I believe.

The gov in the link was Pinchback of Louisiana, seems to be around 1870.

573 recusancy  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:26:58pm

re: #572 Decatur Deb

The gov in the link was Pinchback of Louisiana, seems to be around 1870.

But he was unelected.

574 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:27:16pm

re: #561 albusteve

simpsons episode - the mayor of Alberquque bought out the Springfield Isotopes and tried to shift the franchise........

Homer put a stop to it by going on hunger strike.

575 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:27:24pm

re: #566 palomino

It's not a small thing of course, I'm just annoyed and worn by it. I'll let other people handle the meat of the discussion.

576 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:28:06pm

re: #569 eclectic infidel

I remember that! It was terrible. Seizing homes for the sake of retail. Fucked up.

yup... but some how when we resist we are just racist terrorists...

577 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:28:18pm

re: #572 Decatur Deb

The gov in the link was Pinchback of Louisiana, seems to be around 1870.

Ah sorry about that.

578 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:28:46pm

re: #573 recusancy

But he was unelected.

Let's keep this about southern governors.

579 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:29:21pm

re: #564 brookly red

no it was more a matter of seizing homes (some in a landmark zone) under eminent domain and building a stadium in a brownstone neighborhood... another reason why I parted with the left.

ugh. eminent domain crap sets me off...

580 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:29:31pm

re: #568 Aceofwhat?

yikes. i'd ask how much honor a slaver has laying around to be protected in the first place...

Honor was a word which played a big role in Southern willingness to go to war.
Also, archives are filled with memoirs of soldiers who wanted nothing to do with slavery, but felt a pride in their home state and fought for a curious form of not nationalism, but state pride.

581 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:29:37pm

On the OP, I don't see allegations of racism, slavery or not, as the issue of significance here.

Does anyone else see what I think is most obvious?

582 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:29:41pm

re: #576 brookly red

yup... but some how when we resist we are just racist terrorists...

No, people get called racists when they hang around with racists. Which is the GOP's problem right now.

583 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:29:45pm

re: #571 HoosierHoops

I'm not sure why.. You will have Russian Billionaire for an owner..
Players follow the money.. Remember during the NBA lockout.. The whole world found out Millionaire players live from paycheck to paycheck?
That was great...It made me a happy man...
Players will follow the money...Right down to your Neighborhood.. Get season tickets now!

that is the point, they will destroy my neighborhood. we don't want them.

584 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:29:59pm

re: #553 recusancy

Yup. Wilder in '89

I wonder what he thinks of this bullshit.

585 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:30:18pm

re: #574 wozzablog

simpsons episode - the mayor of Alberquque bought out the Springfield Isotopes and tried to shift the franchise...

Homer put a stop to it by going on hunger strike.

you know, I think I've heard of that story....last season at the park I saw a kid wearing a Homer tee shirt and Homer was wearing a 'Topes cap...I thought wow!...they sure are popular!...so that fits

586 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:30:42pm

re: #580 Capitalist Tool

Honor was a word which played a big role in Southern willingness to go to war.
Also, archives are filled with memoirs of soldiers who wanted nothing to do with slavery, but felt a pride in their home state and fought for a curious form of not nationalism, but state pride.

that's what college football is for!

587 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:31:04pm

re: #555 Uninformed Opinion

Denver seems pretty pretty good to me, but I do not spend time there. The western slope of colorado gets down right nasty at times. The klan was endemic here, I am still reading the history about it.

I live in Miami, but there are parts of Florida that can be categorized as "deep south". Even so, it's always a good sign (to me anyway) when I see boundaries of race being broken. I saw quite a few multi-racial couples in Denver. And I liked the city, too. The stores, the people were friendly.

I was also introduced to the Beer Mat and that was a whole other kinda fun.

588 recusancy  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:31:13pm

re: #584 Obdicut

I wonder what he thinks of this bullshit.

He's one of Fox News' favorite black people/democrats. So he probably doesn't care.

589 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:31:56pm

okies, second time, laters gators.

590 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:32:04pm

re: #580 Capitalist Tool

a curious form of not nationalism, but state pride.

Does, "my tribe first" sound like anything that created the USA?

591 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:32:27pm

re: #580 Capitalist Tool

Honor was a word which played a big role in Southern willingness to go to war.
Also, archives are filled with memoirs of soldiers who wanted nothing to do with slavery, but felt a pride in their home state and fought for a curious form of not nationalism, but state pride.

That certainly motivated Robert E. Lee and A.P. Hill, both of whom had little use for slavery (Hill having actually freed all his slaves before the war began).

592 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:33:00pm

re: #582 Dark_Falcon

No, people get called racists when they hang around with racists. Which is the GOP's problem right now.

That's true. It's guilt by association of course. That's why people were/are concerned with Obama's associations with Wright, Farrakhan, etc.

593 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:33:27pm

re: #583 brookly red

that is the point, they will destroy my neighborhood. we don't want them.

re: #582 Dark_Falcon

No, people get called racists when they hang around with racists. Which is the GOP's problem right now.

no, we just want our neighborhood (mostly black for what that is worth) not to be paved under for a stadium... but so it goes.

594 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:33:34pm

re: #592 TheMatrix31

That's true. It's guilt by association of course. That's why people were/are concerned with Obama's associations with Wright, Farrakhan, etc.

whoops!

595 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:34:13pm

re: #188 Sigma_x

Just the other day I got called a bigot for calling the Tea Baggers bigots.

Ummm, not really....

You got called out by brookly red and Walter for this comment: specifically that in bold.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Until I read that I was beginning to get really scared. You see these images and videos of these ridiculous Tea Party gatherings, and the relentless promotion of them on FOX, and you start to worry that they really might get swept into power, kinda like what happens in Europe during times of upheaval when these little splinter/fringe groups manage to slip into a comfortable majority and turn the Government of whatever little backwards @ss country they're in into some socialist experiment that always ends up going awry.

But I have been reassured, after reading these polls, that these freaks are NOT the majority, and that they are increasingly, with each passing year, becoming smaller and smaller a sub-population of the US; a mob of old, angry, mostly-uneducated, easily frightened white people.

Check out the open thread on Malkin's site from last night. It reads like a tent revival. I mean, these people are seriously thinking that not only is God is on their side, but that he and his son watch FOX, as well.

[Link: michellemalkin.com...]

That is why Walter called you a bigot.

But go on revising your history...

596 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:34:21pm

re: #580 Capitalist Tool

Honor was a word which played a big role in Southern willingness to go to war.
Also, archives are filled with memoirs of soldiers who wanted nothing to do with slavery, but felt a pride in their home state and fought for a curious form of not nationalism, but state pride.

It's pretty easy to find southern states' declarations war and of secession on the web. They tend to cite preservation of slavery as a driving force.

597 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:34:33pm

re: #593 brookly red

no, we just want our neighborhood (mostly black for what that is worth) not to be paved under for a stadium... but so it goes.

sorry, I haven't followed...are the Nets moving into the city? or is there talk of a move?

598 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:34:39pm

re: #591 Dark_Falcon

That certainly motivated Robert E. Lee and A.P. Hill, both of whom had little use for slavery (Hill having actually freed all his slaves before the war began).

I didn't know that about Hill. An interesting Confederate general is Patrick Cleburne. He proposed emancipating the slaves and allowing them to fight in the army. He was turned down of course.

599 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:35:13pm

re: #592 TheMatrix31

That's true. It's guilt by association of course. That's why people were/are concerned with Obama's associations with Wright, Farrakhan, etc.

on my my my ...

600 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:35:20pm

My grandfather's grandfather died at Antietam fighting for the Confederacy. Didn't know him or what was in his heart, but I am from poor non-slave owning stock.

Both sides of my family moved to West Virginia to mine coal, because that is the only thing they knew. Working their asses off to feed their families today.

I wish I knew more about it. The records are pretty thin from back then.

601 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:36:00pm

re: #590 Naso Tang

Does, "my tribe first" sound like anything that created the USA?

You're on it... it's a human condition.re: #591 Dark_Falcon

That certainly motivated Robert E. Lee and A.P. Hill, both of whom had little use for slavery (Hill having actually freed all his slaves before the war began).

Not so sure about R.E.Lee... he wasn't known as a kind man to his slaves, although several of his biographers tried to paint him as such.
He once ordered a slave family to suffer 50 lashes apiece for trying to escape and then soaked their backs in salt brine.

602 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:36:03pm

re: #583 brookly red

that is the point, they will destroy my neighborhood. we don't want them.


I don't know the details.. I'll check..
I have never heard of anyone in the world that thought having a professional sports team in the Neighborhood would destroy it.. Do you have any idea how much money we are talking about? Millions upon Millions of Dollars.. There will be new restraunts and businesses spring up like crazy.. Shopping..
And I know how much you New Yorkers love this word.. New Taxes..
It's a win win for you...Every couple of days you will be on TV.. People flock to sports towns..

603 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:36:42pm

re: #595 rwdflynavy

You and your pesky little facts.

604 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:37:34pm

re: #602 HoosierHoops

(sorry about your Butler boys)

605 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:37:34pm

re: #598 HappyWarrior

I didn't know that about Hill. An interesting Confederate general is Patrick Cleburne. He proposed emancipating the slaves and allowing them to fight in the army. He was turned down of course.

the slaves themselves, of course, were unavailable for comment...

606 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:38:17pm

re: #597 albusteve

sorry, I haven't followed...are the Nets moving into the city? or is there talk of a move?

they are moving onto Brooklyn, the stadium will be built over the Long Island Rail Road yards and a substantial number of homes seized by eminent domain...

607 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:39:00pm

re: #602 HoosierHoops

I don't know the details.. I'll check..
I have never heard of anyone in the world that thought having a professional sports team in the Neighborhood would destroy it.. Do you have any idea how much money we are talking about? Millions upon Millions of Dollars.. There will be new restraunts and businesses spring up like crazy.. Shopping..
And I know how much you New Yorkers love this word.. New Taxes..
It's a win win for you...Every couple of days you will be on TV.. People flock to sports towns..

these are 1800's brown stones...

608 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:39:08pm

re: #500 justaminute

How about when you go out to eat in Hannibal MO., everyone stares at your family, and thinks "Well would you look at that. You put one white girl with an Asian guy and those are the kids you get."
Still, we ate freely at the back of the rest. and nothing happened. God Bless the USA.

609 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:39:11pm

re: #602 HoosierHoops

I don't know the details.. I'll check..
I have never heard of anyone in the world that thought having a professional sports team in the Neighborhood would destroy it.. Do you have any idea how much money we are talking about? Millions upon Millions of Dollars.. There will be new restraunts and businesses spring up like crazy.. Shopping..
And I know how much you New Yorkers love this word.. New Taxes..
It's a win win for you...Every couple of days you will be on TV.. People flock to sports towns..

parking, congestion, crime etc...which drove many teams out of their cities in the 70s and 80s....jus saying not everybody approves

610 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:39:22pm

re: #605 Aceofwhat?

the slaves themselves, of course, were unavailable for comment...

Sure they were, but it was more a matter of don't ask don't tell.

611 palomino  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:39:23pm

re: #466 Spare O'Lake

I am not in any way suggesting that Lincoln might have let the South secede. I am however wondering whether Lincoln might have partially deferred abolition if the South had been prepared to lay down their weapons and abandon their secessionist aims.


Probably yes, the Union was more important to him than emancipation, which he favored but did not prioritize as highly.

612 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:39:33pm

re: #596 Decatur Deb

It's pretty easy to find southern states' declarations war and of secession on the web. They tend to cite preservation of slavery as a driving force.

Yes. They used all sorts of ways to justify to themselves that what they were doing was defensible.
Everybody does the same thing all the time in different ways to preserve their own world view.
Want to make someone mad? Confront them with a fact which is contrary to their belief.

613 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:39:34pm

re: #592 TheMatrix31

That's true. It's guilt by association of course. That's why people were/are concerned with Obama's associations with Wright, Farrakhan, etc.

It is not "guilt by association", which is an association fallacy. I'll bet I'm as sick of that as you are of "race". When people hang out with racists, they are tarring themselves as people who don't mind hanging out with racists.

614 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:39:52pm

re: #605 Aceofwhat?

the slaves themselves, of course, were unavailable for comment...

Yep. Longstreet is another general that interests me since he didn't embrace the "Lost Cause" that many did.

615 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:39:58pm

re: #605 Aceofwhat?

One of the other books I have that touches on the subject is part of B.A. Botkin's folklore series: A treasury of Civil war Folklore

A generally amazing work (like all his work), but the 1st person accounts of some of these very subjects are freakin' amazing.

616 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:40:04pm

re: #602 HoosierHoops

and this is NY we don't need people flocking here damnit!

617 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:40:31pm

re: #604 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(sorry about your Butler boys)

Great game...You just can't shoot that poorly and win a Championship.
On the bright side.. I met Larry Bird and Dennis Miller...

618 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:40:43pm

re: #600 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You can always check the 10 year census forms. Trust a nerdy liberal to tell you that!

619 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:40:57pm

re: #606 brookly red

they are moving onto Brooklyn, the stadium will be built over the Long Island Rail Road yards and a substantial number of homes seized by eminent domain...

whoa..whatever happened to the plans for a new football stadium along the Hudson?

620 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:41:23pm

re: #617 HoosierHoops

Great game...You just can't shoot that poorly and win a Championship.
On the bright side.. I met Larry Bird and Dennis Miller...

There's gotta be a story here!

621 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:41:33pm

re: #612 Capitalist Tool


Want to make someone mad? Confront them with a fact which is contrary to their belief.

Particularly when it has happened before, and they didn't have an answer then either.

622 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:41:37pm

re: #615 windsagio

Oops, specifically to the point; They talk some about the Union arming the 'contrabands', and the aborted Confederate attempts to do the same.

623 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:43:08pm

re: #615 windsagio

One of the other books I have that touches on the subject is part of B.A. Botkin's folklore series: A treasury of Civil war Folklore

A generally amazing work (like all his work), but the 1st person accounts of some of these very subjects are freakin' amazing.

cool, thanks for the tip

624 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:43:37pm

re: #613 wrenchwench

Yep.

625 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:44:05pm

Talking of mindsets (just to clarify how I'm not OT) this is not good:

Afghanistan shows it's true colors (my comment)

626 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:44:15pm

re: #619 albusteve

whoa..whatever happened to the plans for a new football stadium along the Hudson?

across the rive 12 miles away in an unused freight yard.

627 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:44:24pm

Racism is alive and well right around the whole fucking ugly world...so what else is new?
The USA, for all its racial issues, is a shining example to the world of the determined quest to overcome the worst effects of racism by education, legislation and mainstream Judeo-Christian morality. The wonderful accomplishments of the civil rights movement and now the election of a black POTUS are beacons of hope and light to the world.
Please don't lose sight of that, my American friends.

628 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:45:32pm

re: #366 windsagio

2 things:

first of all, people aren't piling up on me

secondly, I'm not whining about it either.

I could pile on you if you want.

629 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:45:43pm

re: #617 HoosierHoops

Great game...You just can't shoot that poorly and win a Championship.
On the bright side.. I met Larry Bird and Dennis Miller...

YOU BASTARD!
/
(Larry's my basketball idol. I'm from Virginia, and well... he's white)
/ again.

630 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:46:17pm

re: #598 HappyWarrior

I didn't know that about Hill. An interesting Confederate general is Patrick Cleburne. He proposed emancipating the slaves and allowing them to fight in the army. He was turned down of course.

One of my cousins actually found out that we had an ancestor who had fought for the Union at the Battle of Franklin, where Cleburne was killed. He was an excellent officer and deserved a better fate than to have been thrown against Union troops in entrenched positions who outgunned his men (many of the Union soldiers he faced in the battle were armed with breech loaders).

631 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:46:52pm

re: #617 HoosierHoops

The first five minutes doomed them. Couldn't buy a basket.

632 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:47:42pm

re: #628 b_sharp

I could pile on you if you want.

let's get an 'uncle' out of 'em

633 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:47:52pm

re: #628 b_sharp

BOING!

634 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:48:35pm

re: #607 brookly red

these are 1800's brown stones...

Red..Don't take this wrong bro.. I don't know the story.. I admit that..
You don't have a fucking empty parking lot anywhere to build a world class stadium and have a professional NBA team bankrolled by a fricking Billionaire move in? Are you guys doing that well there? Shit how much are those 1800's brownstones bringing in? Somehow I'd make room to be a world class sports town.. But whatever...
/I really need to read up on this bro

635 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:48:47pm

re: #592 TheMatrix31

That's true. It's guilt by association of course. That's why people were/are concerned with Obama's associations with Wright, Farrakhan, etc.

Obama was associated with Farrakhan? That's news to me. At best it was tertiary with no interaction involved. That allegation is based on Rev. Wright giving a newsletter award to Farrakhan.

636 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:48:48pm

re: #624 TheMatrix31

Yep.

I am disagreeing with you. Then you agreed with me. Just thought I'd mention that in case it wasn't clear.

637 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:48:51pm

re: #626 brookly red

across the rive 12 miles away in an unused freight yard.

here it is...I didn't even know it was started yet...pretty cool looking building
[Link: www.newjetsstadium.com...]

638 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:49:36pm

re: #627 Spare O'Lake

Racism is alive and well right around the whole fucking ugly world...so what else is new?

I'm not racist, which is why I prefer to use the term cultural bigotry, or fear, to describe what you talk about.

But if those are big words, then racist will have the same net result, so who am I to argue?/

639 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:50:23pm

re: #636 wrenchwench

I am disagreeing with you. Then you agreed with me. Just thought I'd mention that in case it wasn't clear.

whew. i kept trying to figure out why that didn't make sense...

640 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:50:32pm

re: #636 wrenchwench

I am disagreeing with you. Then you agreed with me. Just thought I'd mention that in case it wasn't clear.

I hate when that happens.

641 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:50:54pm

re: #636 wrenchwench

No that was my point.....that if you're hanging around people who can be considered racists, people are going to assume such. Like you said, it may be a fallacy, but it doesn't do your reputation any bit of good either way.

642 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:51:28pm

re: #411 wrenchwench

Maybe you should stay away for a while...avoid the annoyance...

Are you a member of any race yourself?

There is only one race. The race to the bathroom after a half dozen.

643 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:51:42pm

re: #634 HoosierHoops

Red..Don't take this wrong bro.. I don't know the story.. I admit that..
You don't have a fucking empty parking lot anywhere to build a world class stadium and have a professional NBA team bankrolled by a fricking Billionaire move in? Are you guys doing that well there? Shit how much are those 1800's brownstones bringing in? Somehow I'd make room to be a world class sports town.. But whatever...
/I really need to read up on this bro

not at the expense of old antique neighborhoods...imo

644 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:51:47pm

re: #623 Aceofwhat?

If I"m allowed to carry on some, one of the things I was shown was the debasement and cluelessness of the Southern upperclass, to whit:

And it was thought ominous afterwards, when the story was repeated, that, as Mrs. Davis, who had a Virginia Negro for coachman, was driven to the inauguration, she observed the carriage went at a snail's pace and was escorted by four Negro men in black clothes, wearing white cotton gloves and walking solemnly, two on either side of the equipage; she asked the coachman what such a spectacle could mean, and was answered, "Well, ma'am, you tole me to arrange everything as it should be, and this is the we way we do in Richmon' at funerals and sich-like." Mrs. Davis promptly ordered the outwalkers away, and with them departed all the pomp and cirumstance the occasion admitted of.

In the mind of a negro, everything of dignified ceremonial is always associated with a funeral!

(emphasis mine)

I love that story because she had no freaking idea that they were mocking her.

645 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:52:31pm

re: #643 albusteve

not at the expense of old antique neighborhoods...imo

"Old" don't make something "Antique".

646 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:52:32pm

re: #640 Spare O'Lake

I hate when that happens.

Yeah, usually it's much later in the evening, and chances are nobody else noticed.

647 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:52:34pm

re: #634 HoosierHoops

Red..Don't take this wrong bro.. I don't know the story.. I admit that..
You don't have a fucking empty parking lot anywhere to build a world class stadium and have a professional NBA team bankrolled by a fricking Billionaire move in? Are you guys doing that well there? Shit how much are those 1800's brownstones bringing in? Somehow I'd make room to be a world class sports town.. But whatever...
/I really need to read up on this bro

NYC is a world class sports town... this ain't Podunk... the Net's could play at MSG like the Nicks... but no. They have to seize peoples homes, some of which btw were stations in the original underground rail road.

648 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:54:30pm

re: #420 TheMatrix31

Meh. It won't go away if morons on both sides keep harping about it and doing shit to exacerbate tensions, that's for sure.

Man, do you misunderstand the dynamics.

It won't go away until its forced to, and sometimes shit needs to be stirred.

649 TheMatrix31  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:54:34pm

Grrr....class is starting soon, gonna go get settled. Later.

650 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:54:42pm

re: #592 TheMatrix31

That's true. It's guilt by association of course. That's why people were/are concerned with Obama's associations with Wright, Farrakhan, etc.

There is no Obama association with Farrakhan. This is a lie.

651 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:54:43pm

re: #647 brookly red

NYC is a world class sports town... this ain't Podunk... the Net's could play at MSG like the Nicks... but no. They have to seize peoples homes, some of which btw were stations in the original underground rail road.

Cue Sinatra...

652 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:54:52pm

This is hilarious.

Porn Star Stormy Daniels Switches Teams

She added: “As is the case with so many of my fellow Louisianans, I have been a registered Democrat throughout my life. But now I cannot help but recognize that over time my libertarian values regarding both money and sex and the legal use of one for the other [are] now best espoused by the Republican Party.”

Yep. The RNC. Promoting prostitution since 2110.

653 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:55:32pm

re: #642 b_sharp

There is only one race. The race to the bathroom after a half dozen.

more of a mad stumble, really...

654 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:55:32pm

re: #644 windsagio

(emphasis mine)

I love that story because she had no freaking idea that they were mocking her.

Nice story, but would it be racist if I suggested you have no freaking idea if that is the case?

655 darthstar  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:55:32pm

re: #652 Gus 802

This is hilarious.

Porn Star Stormy Daniels Switches Teams

Yep. The RNC. Promoting prostitution since 2110.

Stormy's always been a switch-hitter.

656 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:56:09pm

re: #630 Dark_Falcon

One of my cousins actually found out that we had an ancestor who had fought for the Union at the Battle of Franklin, where Cleburne was killed. He was an excellent officer and deserved a better fate than to have been thrown against Union troops in entrenched positions who outgunned his men (many of the Union soldiers he faced in the battle were armed with breech loaders).


Cool deal. I had a great great grandfather I believe in a Pennsylvania regiment. We had his discharge papers somewhere. Being of Irish decent I've always been interested in the Irish story. Thomas Meagher is a really interesting figure to me not just in American but Irish history as well. In fact, I plan on getting part of the Irish brigade's flag as a tattoo this summer with their motto.

657 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:56:11pm

re: #651 Capitalist Tool

Cue Sinatra...

he was from Jersey...

658 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:56:17pm

re: #652 Gus 802

This is hilarious.

Porn Star Stormy Daniels Switches Teams

Yep. The RNC. Promoting prostitution since 2110.

Surely we can work hope and change into this somehow/

659 Bagua  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:56:44pm

All new episode begins in 4 minutes!

660 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:57:04pm

re: #652 Gus 802

This is hilarious.

Porn Star Stormy Daniels Switches Teams

Yep. The RNC. Promoting prostitution since 2110.

SoCon heads exploding in 4, 3, 2, 1,.... POP!

661 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:57:23pm

re: #641 TheMatrix31

No that was my point...that if you're hanging around people who can be considered racists, people are going to assume such. Like you said, it may be a fallacy, but it doesn't do your reputation any bit of good either way.

Take a look:


re: #592 TheMatrix31
re: #582 Dark_Falcon

No, people get called racists when they hang around with racists. Which is the GOP's problem right now.


That's true. It's guilt by association of course. That's why people were/are concerned with Obama's associations with Wright, Farrakhan, etc.


The bolded part is not true. That was my point. If you are hanging around with racists, as are the the Republicans in D_F's statement, you are tarring yourself. That's not a fallacy. Calling it "guilt by association" as though it is a fallacy is incorrect.

662 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:57:35pm

re: #629 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

YOU BASTARD!
/
(Larry's my basketball idol. I'm from Virginia, and well... he's white)
/ again.

Honest to God...We were sitting in Larry's section And I walked over and said something to him and made him Smile.. I understand that is impossible.. It is not..What a stud..
We took the elevator with Dennis Miller to level one..I'm not shy.. And me and and the boys were so tripped out about ridding an elevator with Dennis..I think he was just a little bit uncomfortable..
I wished i would have said ' Say something funny..Funny man '
But I was very polite...But inside..I so wanted to say that

663 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:57:46pm

re: #655 darthstar

re: #658 Aceofwhat?

I probably should have added this excerpt:

“While this decision has not been an easy one, recent events regarding Republican National Committee fundraising at Voyeur, an L.A.-based lesbian bondage-themed nightclub, finally tipped the scales,” she said in a statement. “For me, this spirit can be summed up in the RNC’s investment of donor funds at Voyeur. As someone who has worked extensively in both the club and film side of the adult entertainment industry, I know from experience that a mere $1,900 outlay at a club with the reputation of Voyeur is a clear indication of a frugal investment with a keen eye toward maximum return.”

Obvious publicity stunt or is she really this thick?

664 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:57:50pm

re: #645 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Old" don't make something "Antique".

Brooklyn needs to spare their residential ares, they've wiped out enough as it is...put the fucker in Soho and see what people say

665 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:57:56pm

re: #659 Bagua

All new episode begins in 4 minutes!

Thanks. LOST. Bye.

666 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:58:17pm

re: #652 Gus 802

This is hilarious.

Porn Star Stormy Daniels Switches Teams

Yep. The RNC. Promoting prostitution since 2110.

2110... yup you sure done your homework boy.

667 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:58:19pm

I give up.

668 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:58:26pm

re: #654 Naso Tang

Read the book, man.

It keeps coming out in the southerners own words, they were totally convinced that the blacks were totally stupid and inferior and humorless.

But let me ask you, do you really think that black people really thought that that funerals were time to have dignified ceremony?

669 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:58:49pm

re: #635 Gus 802

Obama was associated with Farrakhan? That's news to me. At best it was tertiary with no interaction involved. That allegation is based on Rev. Wright giving a newsletter award to Farrakhan.

Thanks Gus.

670 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:59:10pm

re: #666 brookly red

2110... yup you sure done your homework boy.

Yep. It was a conservative estimate.

671 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:59:25pm

re: #650 WindUpBird

There is no Obama association with Farrakhan. This is a lie.

that's public knowledge anyway...who knows and what's on those LAT fundraiser tapes?

672 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 5:59:56pm

re: #663 Gus 802

Obvious publicity stunt or is she really this thick?


It's probably a publicity stunt with the bonus of goofing on Republican "family values". I still think the strip club thing was leaked internally to make an excuse for getting rid of Steele.

673 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:00:17pm

re: #652 Gus 802

This is hilarious.

Porn Star Stormy Daniels Switches Teams

She added: “As is the case with so many of my fellow Louisianans, I have been a registered Democrat throughout my life. But now I cannot help but recognize that over time my libertarian values regarding both money and sex and the legal use of one for the other [are] now best espoused by the Republican Party.”


Yep. The RNC. Promoting prostitution since 2110.

No mystery--she was a good Dem sex worker, but now she's planning a move to management.

674 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:00:27pm

re: #663 Gus 802

re: #658 Aceofwhat?

I probably should have added this excerpt:

Obvious publicity stunt or is she really this thick?

She didn't make her money using her brain, if that's what you mean. And she's aged quickly, judging by that photo.

675 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:00:30pm

re: #669 Stanley Sea

Thanks Gus.

YW That was about the only legitimate connection. The rest is from World Net Daily, Debbie Schlussel, etc.

676 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:00:44pm

re: #652 Gus 802

This is hilarious.

Porn Star Stormy Daniels Switches Teams

Yep. The RNC. Promoting prostitution since 2110.

OMG.
She's been around forever.
Seems like every time there's an election for something, she's running (or thinking about running).
Hilarious.

677 Bagua  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:00:53pm

re: #665 Naso Tang

Thanks. LOST. Bye.

If I can help one lizard, my day is a good one.

bbl

678 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:00:55pm

re: #435 brookly red

just wondering... how many folks posting tonight are black?

I mean nothing by this, just curious.

I'm not from a minority, but I am married to an aboriginal and have watched my kids grow up in a society where aboriginals are treated like shit and have had to deal with my 9 year old son coming home from school crying, wishing he had blue eyes and blond hair.

679 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:01:21pm

re: #651 Capitalist Tool

Cue Sinatra...

"Chicago, Chicago, that maudlin town!"
oh wait

680 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:01:58pm

re: #663 Gus 802

re: #658 Aceofwhat?

I probably should have added this excerpt:

Obvious publicity stunt or is she really this thick?

Probably both. At best, she hasn't been paying attention.

681 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:02:17pm

re: #666 brookly red

2110... yup you sure done your homework boy.

congrats on the mark of the beast, by the way. i knew you had it in you/

682 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:02:26pm

re: #678 b_sharp

I'm not from a minority, but I am married to an aboriginal and have watched my kids grow up in a society where aboriginals are treated like shit and have had to deal with my 9 year old son coming home from school crying, wishing he had blue eyes and blond hair.

that sucks & so what?

683 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:02:31pm

re: #672 Killgore Trout

It's probably a publicity stunt with the bonus of goofing on Republican "family values". I still think the strip club thing was leaked internally to make an excuse for getting rid of Steele.

She is all about sticking it to Sen Vitter.

684 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:03:09pm

re: #682 brookly red

Your concern with your fellowman is so inspiring!

685 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:03:17pm

re: #447 Aceofwhat?

i'm half English, half German. i think that when we rank the list of "nationalities which have a legitimate peeve about race", i come in somewhere close to DEAD LAST...

Scot/English/German/Austrian/Polish/Ukrainian.

I'm right beside you.

686 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:03:37pm

re: #681 Aceofwhat?

congrats on the mark of the beast, by the way. i knew you had it in you/

I stopped trying and let the powers that be work their wonders...

687 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:04:01pm

re: #647 brookly red

NYC is a world class sports town... this ain't Podunk... the Net's could play at MSG like the Nicks... but no. They have to seize peoples homes, some of which btw were stations in the original underground rail road.

You have given me an issue to read about in the morning
Regards

688 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:04:16pm

re: #686 brookly red

I stopped trying and let the powers that be work their wonders...

yep. if you just let them work through you, and don't fight it, it's not as painful...

689 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:04:17pm

re: #675 Gus 802

YW That was about the only legitimate connection. The rest is from World Net Daily, Debbie Schlussel, etc.

And people here, who repeat it.

690 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:04:49pm

Uh oh! Heads pop!

Obama revives terror-prison rules

The Obama Administration is releasing new public rules to govern where terrorism-related convicts and others should be jailed – in special prison units where their communications with the outside world are closely monitored and sharply restricted.

The rules are largely identical to regulations the Bush Administration proposed in 2006 and officially abandoned the following year.

The new proposed regulations allow the Bureau of Prisons to impose strict limits on the communications of inmates, though it’s unclear whether the Obama administration actually intends to lock these prisoners down to that degree. In fact, it has gone largely unnoticed that the Obama administration actually eased the rules substantially in January of this year.

The new rules were first spotted by Joe Palazzolo at Main Justice, who highlighted some of the more onerous restrictions, including a limit of one three-page, double-sided letter a week to or from a single correspondent. There are exceptions for communications with courts, lawyers, the president, members of Congress and others. However, it's notable that the rules appear to foreclose any direct communication by inmates with the press...

691 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:05:12pm

re: #678 b_sharp

I'm not from a minority, but I am married to an aboriginal and have watched my kids grow up in a society where aboriginals are treated like shit and have had to deal with my 9 year old son coming home from school crying, wishing he had blue eyes and blond hair.

My son, adopted from Vietnam, has come home from school more than once saying he's ugly because of his asian looks. It's a very hard and pernicious problem to deal with... and I'd like to be able to spank the kids that think it's "cute" to call him "china-boy".

William

692 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:05:22pm

re: #689 Stanley Sea

And people here, who repeat it.

Yeah, I noticed that it went unchallenged.

693 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:05:37pm

re: #684 windsagio

Your concern with your fellowman is so inspiring!

well what does that have to do with anything we are discussing? If you want to start an Australia sucks thread go for it...

694 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:06:02pm

re: #682 brookly red

that sucks & so what?

Ass

695 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:06:06pm

re: #682 brookly red

So What? So What?!!

[facepalm]

696 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:06:55pm

re: #663 Gus 802

Actually, she managed to call them a bunch of cheapskates in a very clever way.

697 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:07:32pm

re: #682 brookly red

that sucks & so what?

Picture this scenario:

Your kid comes home from school in tears.

You: What's wrong?
Kid: I hate being who I am. I am ostracized by my peers and sometimes fear for my physical safety for reasons I didn't choose and can't change.
You: That sucks & so what?

698 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:07:33pm

re: #682 brookly red

that sucks & so what?

Are you seriously this thick or are you just trying to piss people off?

699 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:07:47pm

re: #693 brookly red

No seriously man. Regardless of anything else that's terrible.

If it were my kids and you said that to me I'd want to slap you.

700 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:08:40pm

re: #699 windsagio

No seriously man. Regardless of anything else that's terrible.

If it were my kids and you said that to me I'd want to slap you.

It slips sometimes.

701 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:11:11pm

re: #678 b_sharp

I'm not from a minority, but I am married to an aboriginal and have watched my kids grow up in a society where aboriginals are treated like shit and have had to deal with my 9 year old son coming home from school crying, wishing he had blue eyes and blond hair.

OK I did not mean to be insensitive to your situation and I accept the flack I will surely take... my original post was to how many people on an American racism thread are black... it was my bad & I do accept it.

702 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:12:40pm

re: #701 brookly red

OK I did not mean to be insensitive to your situation and I accept the flack I will surely take... my original post was to how many people on an American racism thread are black... it was my bad & I do accept it.

'Insensitivity' is one thing. Mocking a child is something else entirely.

703 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:12:56pm

re: #701 brookly red

Your original post carries some unfortunate implications too, I wish you'd withdraw that as well :p

704 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:13:32pm

re: #702 McSpiff

'Insensitivity' is one thing. Mocking a child is something else entirely.

I did not mock a child so fuck you, k?

705 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:13:41pm

re: #701 brookly red

OK I did not mean to be insensitive to your situation and I accept the flack I will surely take... my original post was to how many people on an American racism thread are black... it was my bad & I do accept it.

And that makes less sense.

You have to be black to have an opinion on racism?

706 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:14:08pm

re: #705 Stanley Sea

watch him totally deny thats what he meant.

He was 'just curious'!

707 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:14:35pm

re: #706 windsagio

watch him totally deny thats what he meant.

He was 'just curious'!

Yeah, it shows.

708 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:14:59pm

re: #704 brookly red

I did not mock a child so fuck you, k?

Be careful, I hit a little harder than a nine year old.

709 Uninformed Opinion  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:15:56pm

re: #701 brookly red

OK I did not mean to be insensitive to your situation and I accept the flack I will surely take... my original post was to how many people on an American racism thread are black... it was my bad & I do accept it.

deflects the apology to the question, not the obnoxious comment.

710 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:16:08pm

re: #708 McSpiff

Be careful, I hit a little harder than a nine year old.

it was a wholly insensitive comment but don't we typically accept each others' apologies around here?

711 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:16:12pm

re: #706 windsagio

watch him totally deny thats what he meant.

He was 'just curious'!

yes I am curious... I don't deny it. Are you black? Can you speak for Blacks? Careful where you take this ...

712 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:16:19pm

re: #708 McSpiff

Oh lord, none of this please.

713 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:16:25pm

re: #701 brookly red

OK I did not mean to be insensitive to your situation and I accept the flack I will surely take... my original post was to how many people on an American racism thread are black... it was my bad & I do accept it.

Thank you for that.

714 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:17:06pm

re: #711 brookly red

Well at least I forced you out into the open with this.

I can't speak for blacks, but I certainly can speak about racism, because its blatantly obvious to everyone whose actually looking.

715 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:17:50pm

re: #710 Aceofwhat?

it was a wholly insensitive comment but don't we typically accept each others' apologies around here?

Did that read as an apology to you? Looked like an "I'm sorry you're too easily offended" to me.

716 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:18:40pm

re: #715 McSpiff

I was more offended by him pushing the retarded 'oh look white liberals talking for blacks again' meme.

717 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:18:40pm

re: #715 McSpiff

Did that read as an apology to you? Looked like an "I'm sorry you're too easily offended" to me.

"it was my bad and i do accept it"

reads like an apology.

718 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:19:39pm

re: #714 windsagio

Well at least I forced you out into the open with this.

I can't speak for blacks, but I certainly can speak about racism, because its blatantly obvious to everyone whose actually looking.

well what are you trying to say... of course there is racism, you forced no one into nothing... you just jumped on a band wagon.

719 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:19:48pm

the poodles are loose

720 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:20:07pm

re: #716 windsagio

I was more offended by him pushing the retarded 'oh look white liberals talking for blacks again' meme.

Meh. I'm a white conservative offended by this idiotic governor. I thought he was asking for a black perspective.

721 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:20:39pm

re: #718 brookly red

Heh, what bandwagon did I jump onto?

We all know what you've been trying to say for the last 2 hours, I'm just glad you finally had the cojones to come out with it.

722 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:20:54pm

re: #717 Aceofwhat?

"it was my bad and i do accept it"

reads like an apology.

I'll drop the issue, but for the record I still think he's either an asshole, attempting to race bait, or some weird combination of the two.

723 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:21:26pm

re: #720 Aceofwhat?

The problem with that idea is its an old trick, and Godwin-like, eventually comes up in every discussion of Race in the US.

724 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:21:32pm

re: #714 windsagio

Well at least I forced you out into the open with this.

I can't speak for blacks, but I certainly can speak about racism, because its blatantly obvious to everyone whose actually looking.

our HERO!....you do things that are simply impossible....ever consider glossies of yourself?

725 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:21:36pm

re: #682 brookly red

that sucks & so what?

So the job of whites granting equality to non-whites and wiping out racism isn't finished. I'd like to see it finished. How about you?

726 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:21:53pm

re: #722 McSpiff

+for 'some weird combination of the two'

The turn of phrase was totally charming to me :D

727 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:22:35pm

The part of Brookly's "apology" that stuck in my head:

how many people on an American racism thread are black...

Again, it's diminishing racism in that round about way.

728 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:22:50pm

re: #723 windsagio

The problem with that idea is its an old trick, and Godwin-like, eventually comes up in every discussion of Race in the US.

every single one?

729 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:23:08pm

O look, steve is biting at ankles now. About as charming as the dog pissing on the couch.

730 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:23:30pm

re: #729 McSpiff

Don't feed the troll, imo :)

731 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:23:34pm

re: #725 b_sharp

So the job of whites granting equality to non-whites and wiping out racism isn't finished. I'd like to see it finished. How about you?

well actually the idea of whites granting equality is kinda racist don't you think?

732 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:23:56pm

re: #728 Aceofwhat?

Seems like it :p

733 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:24:17pm

YUCK

734 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:24:30pm

re: #731 brookly red

This goes back to an earlier discussion.

Did you perchance lose faith in the Democratic party in about 1964?

735 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:24:54pm

re: #733 Stanley Sea

YUCK

Lol + and quoted for clarity.

736 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:25:02pm

re: #731 brookly red

well actually the idea of whites granting equality is kinda racist don't you think?

Yes. It's totally racist to stop oppressing people. Whistle a little louder.

737 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:25:09pm

re: #729 McSpiff

O look, steve is biting at ankles now. About as charming as the dog pissing on the couch.

Red said what he had too....fucking poodles....it's this constant gang bang that I find annoying...a poodle stroke fest...hop right in

738 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:25:24pm

re: #734 windsagio

This goes back to an earlier discussion.

Did you perchance lose faith in the Democratic party in about 1964?

I can't remember... I was learning how to walk.

739 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:25:28pm

re: #727 Stanley Sea

The part of Brookly's "apology" that stuck in my head:

Again, it's diminishing racism in that round about way.

Diminishing racism in a round about way?
What a bunch of PC dolts!!!

740 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:25:35pm

re: #691 wlewisiii

My son, adopted from Vietnam, has come home from school more than once saying he's ugly because of his asian looks. It's a very hard and pernicious problem to deal with... and I'd like to be able to spank the kids that think it's "cute" to call him "china-boy".

William

It's not something that will disappear on its own, especially when we have a segment of society who claim helping minorities is racism against whites.

741 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:25:54pm

re: #662 HoosierHoops

We took the elevator with Dennis Miller to level one..I'm not shy.. And me and and the boys were so tripped out about ridding an elevator with Dennis..I think he was just a little bit uncomfortable..
I wished i would have said ' Say something funny..Funny man '
But I was very polite...But inside..I so wanted to say that


You wouldn't have understood it.
/

742 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:26:14pm

re: #737 albusteve

Red said what he had too...fucking poodles...it's this constant gang bang that I find annoying...a poodle stroke fest...hop right in

don't worry steve it is what it is.

743 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:26:15pm

re: #737 albusteve

Red said what he had too...fucking poodles...it's this constant gang bang that I find annoying...a poodle stroke fest...hop right in

I find bigots annoying, so I'm totally feeling your pain tonight.

744 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:26:33pm

re: #739 Capitalist Tool

Diminishing racism in a round about way?
What a bunch of PC dolts!!!

no shit...very disappointing....bunch of fucking comment pigs here

745 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:26:37pm

re: #739 Capitalist Tool

Diminishing racism in a round about way?
What a bunch of PC dolts!!!

What am I supposed to do on a moderated thread?

746 Lidane  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:26:56pm

re: #682 brookly red

Seriously?

747 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:26:59pm

re: #740 b_sharp

It's not something that will disappear on its own, especially when we have a segment of society who claim helping minorities is racism against whites.

now you've moved from the governor of VA is an idiot to a nonsensical statement.

748 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:27:13pm

re: #743 McSpiff

I find bigots annoying, so I'm totally feeling your pain tonight.

I find assholes annoying

749 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:27:30pm

re: #742 brookly red

don't worry steve it is what it is.

No, Brookly - you said what you said. You can try to deflect, but you said it.

750 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:27:37pm

re: #748 albusteve

stop with the self-hate man, its unhealthy!!!

751 Gus  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:27:56pm

re: #739 Capitalist Tool

Diminishing racism in a round about way?
What a bunch of PC dolts!!!

Hey, if you start using phrases like PC dolts next thing you know people will start using phrases like redneck apologists.

752 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:28:17pm

re: #747 Aceofwhat?

I think we're in a position of trying to discuss an uncomfortable realization, that a number of people on here had at once about a fellow-poster.

That kind of thing is always awkward.

753 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:28:45pm

re: #748 albusteve

I find assholes annoying

Its ok, we still love you. Seriously, I'm not sure why you're jumping in on this the way you are. We have someone suggesting its racist for whites to treat blacks with equality. Is that really a statement you want to defend?

754 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:28:50pm

re: #749 Stanley Sea

No, Brookly - you said what you said. You can try to deflect, but you said it.

yes I did... and I take responsibility for it. How is that deflection?

755 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:29:23pm

re: #754 brookly red

yes I did... and I take responsibility for it. How is that deflection?

Very clear.

756 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:29:36pm

re: #731 brookly red

well actually the idea of whites granting equality is kinda racist don't you think?

seemed different to me...i kinda like a bunch of people hanging out and calling out racists, even if they happen to be mostly white. so i'm not following you there.

757 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:30:16pm

re: #701 brookly red

OK I did not mean to be insensitive to your situation and I accept the flack I will surely take... my original post was to how many people on an American racism thread are black... it was my bad & I do accept it.

I understand.

Although there may be no blacks on a thread about racism there are some intimately familiar with racism. That should satisfy the conditions of your question, if I read it right.

758 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:31:05pm

re: #752 windsagio

I think we're in a position of trying to discuss an uncomfortable realization, that a number of people on here had at once about a fellow-poster.

That kind of thing is always awkward.

oh, did something happen with a poster and i missed it recently?

759 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:31:36pm

re: #758 Aceofwhat?

Lol, even if you disagree you know exactly what I'm talking about. Don't force me to be more of an ass than I have to :P

760 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:31:56pm

re: #754 brookly red

yes I did... and I take responsibility for it. How is that deflection?

and on that note can we please end this discussion. It getting nowhere and stirring up ill feelings. I can't make people stop, but I am asking folks to stop.

761 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:32:44pm

re: #757 b_sharp

I understand.

Although there may be no blacks on a thread about racism there are some intimately familiar with racism. That should satisfy the conditions of your question, if I read it right.

well yes and no... my original question was was a matter of demographics.

762 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:32:58pm

re: #759 windsagio

Lol, even if you disagree you know exactly what I'm talking about. Don't force me to be more of an ass than I have to :P

i'm probably just being dense...i don't know what affirmative action and the idiotic governor of VA have in common...but don't worry about it. we can move along!

763 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:33:16pm

re: #760 Dark_Falcon

and on that note can we please end this discussion. It getting nowhere and stirring up ill feelings. I can't make people stop, but I am asking folks to stop.

seconded. i'm going upstairs.

764 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:33:26pm

re: #760 Dark_Falcon

and on that note can we please end this discussion. It getting nowhere and stirring up ill feelings. I can't make people stop, but I am asking folks to stop.

donkey shoes thanks

765 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:34:10pm

re: #762 Aceofwhat?

OK, I'll give my closing statement.

BR is coming off as somewhere between eerily racist-apolgist and creepily racist. Its an uncomfortable thing to have to react to.

766 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:34:56pm

re: #763 Aceofwhat?

seconded. i'm going upstairs.

Me too.

767 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:35:35pm

re: #765 windsagio

OK, I'll give my closing statement.

BR is coming off as somewhere between eerily racist-apolgist and creepily racist. Its an uncomfortable thing to have to react to.

He's a long time poster, and has many friends here. I can't blame people for trying a little harder to overlook it then might otherwise be the case.

768 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:35:54pm

re: #719 albusteve

the poodles are loose

You are aware I hope, that poodles are hunting dogs.

769 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:37:19pm

re: #765 windsagio

OK, I'll give my closing statement.

BR is coming off as somewhere between eerily racist-apolgist and creepily racist. Its an uncomfortable thing to have to react to.

...and then albusteve piped in

770 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:37:43pm

re: #769 Stanley Sea

I flatter myself by thinking its personal >>

771 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:37:59pm

re: #770 windsagio

I flatter myself by thinking its personal >>

well, there's that.

772 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:39:10pm

re: #765 windsagio

OK, I'll give my closing statement.

BR is coming off as somewhere between eerily racist-apolgist and creepily racist. Its an uncomfortable thing to have to react to.

at the end of the day my woman comes home and is as black as she was this morning when she left... what do I need to be an apolgist for?

773 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:40:53pm

re: #772 brookly red

The only thing we can make judgment on are the nature of your posts.

Anyone can claim anything about themselves on the internet.

774 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:41:07pm

re: #772 brookly red

at the end of the day my woman comes home and is as black as she was this morning when she left... what do I need to be an apolgist for?

Depends. Does she read LGF?

775 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:42:46pm

re: #747 Aceofwhat?

now you've moved from the governor of VA is an idiot to a nonsensical statement.

It may be nonsensical to you but that sentiment has been stated publicly on talk radio and in print in Western Canada.

776 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:43:14pm

re: #774 McSpiff

Depends. Does she read LGF?

no... in fact she thinks all blog-sites are for losers and that real men actually do something other than talk... that's just her.

777 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:44:20pm

re: #769 Stanley Sea

...and then albusteve piped in

the 'so what' remark was in regard to another post...but instead of asking for clarification or context you poodles rush in and start you silly feeding frenzy...it's like listening to a bunch of jr high girls, but you don't see how childish it is....even after he explained himself, it's more nipping and biting....it's rude and unfair and I defend people when I feel they are being mistreated....bunch of fucking neophyte drama queens....hahaha!...carry on girls

778 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:44:42pm

re: #776 brookly red

no... in fact she thinks all blog-sites are for losers and that real men actually do something other than talk... that's just her.

I can't tell if that's self deprecating humor or passive aggressive snark. Funny either way.

779 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:44:59pm

re: #682 brookly red

that sucks & so what?

I see your ttruueee colors

shiiining throughhh

780 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:46:20pm

re: #762 Aceofwhat?

i'm probably just being dense...i don't know what affirmative action and the idiotic governor of VA have in common...but don't worry about it. we can move along!

The thread split off into a side bar. My comments are centred in the side bar not in the original thread.

781 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:47:30pm

re: #778 McSpiff

I can't tell if that's self deprecating humor or passive aggressive snark. Funny either way.

it's just what she thinks. & btw she is a Catholic & I am a Jew...

782 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:47:56pm

re: #777 albusteve

the 'so what' remark was in regard to another post...but instead of asking for clarification or context you poodles rush in and start you silly feeding frenzy...it's like listening to a bunch of jr high girls, but you don't see how childish it is...even after he explained himself, it's more nipping and biting...it's rude and unfair and I defend people when I feel they are being mistreated...bunch of fucking neophyte drama queens...hahaha!...carry on girls

You defend certain people. Seriously, the white knight shtick doesn't work for you steve. If you honestly see nothing wrong with any of red's posts, even subsequent to his 'apology', that's fine. But I really think you're doing yourself a disservice in this thread.

783 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:48:41pm

re: #779 WindUpBird

I see your ttruueee colors

shiiining throughhh

and what are they toy bird? am I a racist?

784 Coachrichard  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:49:25pm

re: #634 HoosierHoops

Red..Don't take this wrong bro.. I don't know the story.. I admit that..
You don't have a fucking empty parking lot anywhere to build a world class stadium and have a professional NBA team bankrolled by a fricking Billionaire move in? Are you guys doing that well there? Shit how much are those 1800's brownstones bringing in? Somehow I'd make room to be a world class sports town.. But whatever...
/I really need to read up on this bro

Detroit is a 'world class sports town'...

The vast majority of all those millions and millions of dollars don't come anywhere near the people who live closest to the stadiums.

785 b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire)  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:50:00pm

re: #777 albusteve

the 'so what' remark was in regard to another post...but instead of asking for clarification or context you poodles rush in and start you silly feeding frenzy...it's like listening to a bunch of jr high girls, but you don't see how childish it is...even after he explained himself, it's more nipping and biting...it's rude and unfair and I defend people when I feel they are being mistreated...bunch of fucking neophyte drama queens...hahaha!...carry on girls

Yes I'm a neophyte, I've been using various forms of computer communication from bulletin boards, to news groups, to forums and blogs since 1989.

A 21 year neophyte.

786 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:50:12pm

re: #781 brookly red

it's just what she thinks. & btw she is a Catholic & I am a Jew...

I'm very happy for the two of you? Mazel tov?

787 brookly red  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:50:18pm

re: #779 WindUpBird

I see your ttruueee colors

shiiining throughhh

and btw Cindi is a hommie :) so bite me.

788 albusteve  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:52:14pm

re: #782 McSpiff

You defend certain people. Seriously, the white knight shtick doesn't work for you steve. If you honestly see nothing wrong with any of red's posts, even subsequent to his 'apology', that's fine. But I really think you're doing yourself a disservice in this thread.

had you followed the line of posts, it might dawn on you (doubtful) that you and the others took it out of context, and even red realized that and backed up...if you're so smart how come you can't see that?....nuance curve too steep?...your kind a simple minded aggression will usually get some response from me you don't like...grow a pair off balls and pay closer attention

789 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 6:56:25pm

re: #788 albusteve

had you followed the line of posts, it might dawn on you (doubtful) that you and the others took it out of context, and even red realized that and backed up...if you're so smart how come you can't see that?...nuance curve too steep?...your kind a simple minded aggression will usually get some response from me you don't like...grow a pair off balls and pay closer attention

It's going to be ok steve. I know you get easily worked up over these sorts of things, and do your best to defend your clique. But it might be better in the long run to take a deep breath, step back and really read what people are saying instead of jumping in with ad hominems. You seriously post some very insightful stuff when you aren't tilting at windmills.

790 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:00:23pm

re: #789 McSpiff

I have to admit I love it when Steve talks about classic cars or classic rock (except I hate the stones, corporate bastards)

791 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:03:49pm

re: #790 windsagio

I have to admit I love it when Steve talks about classic cars or classic rock (except I hate the stones, corporate bastards)

I love'em, corporate bastards they are.

792 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:05:55pm

re: #601 Capitalist Tool

Not so sure about R.E.Lee... he wasn't known as a kind man to his slaves, although several of his biographers tried to paint him as such.
He once ordered a slave family to suffer 50 lashes apiece for trying to escape and then soaked their backs in salt brine.

That's torture.

793 windsagio  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:06:12pm

re: #791 McSpiff

Their music was good, but they're beyond sold out and into the people that others sell out to.

They're like the secret masters of the Music world.

794 Stanghazi  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:07:37pm

Steve posted this classic the other night - dang I love it!


795 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:08:24pm

re: #793 windsagio

Their music was good, but they're beyond sold out and into the people that others sell out to.

They're like the secret masters of the Music world.

I think it's almost impossible to be around that long and not sell out. Gotta do everything once.

796 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:09:39pm

re: #733 Stanley Sea

YUCK

I agree.

797 Unakite  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:11:16pm

re: #1 SpaceJesus

i declare may kick a southern racists's ass month then

Holy shit, look who showed up. I see you're finally on the plus side.

798 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:15:47pm

re: #668 windsagio


But let me ask you, do you really think that black people really thought that that funerals were time to have dignified ceremony?

That sounds like a racist tainted question.

//

799 Raisin_Bran  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:19:59pm
"Among the 37 black Republicans running for U.S. House and Senate seats in November is Charles Lollar of Maryland's 5th District.

A tea party supporter running against House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., Lollar says he's finding support in unexpected places.

The 38-year-old U.S. Marine Corps reservist recently walked into a bar in southern Maryland decorated with a Confederate flag. It gave his wife Rosha pause.

"I said, 'You know what, honey? Many, many of our Southern citizens came together under that flag for the purpose of keeping their family and their state together,'" Lollar recalled. "The flag is not what you're to fear. It's the stupidity behind the flag that is a problem. I don't think we'll find that in here. Let's go ahead in."

Once inside, they were treated to a pig roast, a motorcycle rally — and presented with $5,000 in contributions for his campaign."

Reminds me of what an abolitionist Lincoln was before the Emancipation Proclamation and how anti-slavery the Union was despite allowing 3 States to continue to have slavery until 1865... not. Though I agree it probably should have been named Civil War Remembrance Month. Read the rest of the article here.

800 Raisin_Bran  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:25:36pm

re: #476 Obdicut

First of all: Much of the United States did not embrace Slavery.


I'm pretty sure they did embrace it by allowing it to be continued under State's rights in the Constitution.

801 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:30:59pm

re: #800 Raisin_Bran

Well, then you're using a version of "embrace" that's kinda different.

In the South, slavery continued to be part of the culture.

In the north, it was already in the decline and quickly fell away.

Eventually, we fought a war over it.

802 Raisin_Bran  Tue, Apr 6, 2010 7:34:14pm

re: #801 Obdicut

It's just unfortunate that they couldn't slowly abolish it along with the slave trade in the early 1800's.

803 Old Dragon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 9:45:36am

re: #120 lostlakehiker
Perfect
As an old Union cavalry re-enactor and a US History teacher for over 25 years, perfect

804 socialrepublican  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 11:08:36am

The irony of this "war of independance" rheotoric is that if the Confederates had won, they would have inevitably fallen under the overwhelming economic power and informal empire of the UK and remained a de-industrialised primary resource producer to Lancastershire cotton mills. If they were lucky they might have ended up like Canada, mostly likely South Africa or Argentina

805 Decider  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:43:58pm

The GOP new slogan: "White is Right!"


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