US and Russia Sign Nuclear Arms Reduction Treaty, Wingnuts Freak Out

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Today, President Obama and Russian President Medvedev signed a historic nuclear arms reduction treaty, reestablishing a nuclear inspection agreement that lapsed along with START last December.

Wingnut blogs are going bonkers, of course, because that’s what they do. Pamela “Shrieking Harpy” Geller has a representative comment, delivered with her characteristic taste, class, and blatant racism:

Obama says to our enemies, bring it on, we won’t fight ya — leaving us bare naked vulnerable like a virgin slipped a Rohypnol on her first date with a Chicagoland gangsta.

But the former Secretary of State for Ronald Reagan, George Shultz, says the Gipper would have approved.

“President Obama has picked up on the notion that we can seek a world free of nuclear weapons, and that was very strongly felt by President Reagan,” the Gipper’s former secretary of State, George Shultz, told me by phone from his home near the Hoover Institution in California, after returning from a meeting with Obama in Washington on Tuesday.

“What he’s proceeding toward is trying to get to a world free of nuclear weapons,” Shultz said. “And how do you do that? You take a series of steps. First of all, since most nuclear weapons that exist are in the hands of Russia and the United States, you’ve got to start there. And since the START Treaty that was proposed by President Reagan expired last December, it’s important to get it replaced with a treaty that has verification permissions in it and continuous investigations.”

Shultz described the treaty’s broad outlines as containing “relatively modest reductions” but concluded, “I think it’s a constructive step.”

In today’s right wing world, Ronald Reagan would have been ostracized as a RINO.

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153 comments
1 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:39:02pm

Dare it be possible we can make the right wing confront the difference between the Ronald Reagan who was President of the United States, and the Saint Reagan who they worship?

2 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:43:35pm
Obama says to our enemies, bring it on, we won’t fight ya — leaving us bare naked vulnerable like a virgin slipped a Rohypnol on her first date with a Chicagoland gangsta.

That woman has more issues than National Geographic.

3 darthstar  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:44:02pm

Robert Gibbs posted a tweet that bears repeating.

Last three Arms Reduction votes;
93-5
93-6
95-0

Here’s the image

I hope this one gets 67 votes…but that will require at least eight Republicans vote for Youth In Asia to Kill Grandma.

4 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:45:10pm

Ronald Reagan was a California Republican. That means RINO right there. The California party gets practically no support, the national party just writes off California every election it seems. Even a Republican Governor gets no traction as per the huge Dem majority in both houses in California, for about a decade now.

5 Barrett Brown  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:45:34pm

Charles, just mentioned in the last thread that some joker tried to tag me as an anti-semite and thereby make you look bad by association; the deal was that I was interviewed by Antiwar radio about the Wikileaks thing, Justin Raimondo runs Antiwar and is supposed to be an anti-Semite according to this guy - who didn’t realize that Raimondo publicly attacked me for being a shill for Israel and for associating with you, which is to say I don’t really seem to be high up on Raimondo’s list of ideological allies. Wrote a post about it at True/Slant, there’s some other amusing stuff as well, particularly regarding R.S. McCain.

6 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:45:44pm

There’s actually quite a bit of nuclear proliferation news in the past couple of days, besides the New START Treaty.

Reducing the overall warheads by the US and Russians is a feather in Obama’s cap to be sure. Russia’s military capabilities are increasingly tied to its nuclear deterrence as its conventional capabilities are seen as behind that of the US (via proxies), but the Russian’s can’t continue spending as they have to maintain their existing warheads - so this is a win win for them (and us).

The other news is that the US is continuing its partnerships with various countries to recycle their HEU into LEU - reducing the threat posed by having HEU (that can be much easier to turn into weapons grade uranium) floating around at facilities that aren’t nearly as secure as they ought to be.

Oh, and the US has been helping the Russians dismantle and render their weapons grade uranium safe for civilian purposes (and we’ve got plenty of Russian uranium being used in US civilian nuclear power plants).

7 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:46:04pm

Reagan is kind of like JFK is for the Democrats, to the Republicans. When you ask what he actually did that was impressive outside of foreign policy, there isn’t really much to point directly to, and much of what he ‘did’ was really the achievement of legislators. And on foreign policy, they both have gigantic, glaring mis-steps.

But they have an iconic value that I think is partially due to their leadership in times of crisis. It’s not to say that’s not something to value, but it’s about the dual nature of the President— is his goal to lead, to be the face of America confronting and dealing with the world, or dealing with the domestic issues in the US?

Reagan certainly tied the right wing closer to the religious right in ways that are very unfortunate now, but I think Charles is completely right to say that Reagan would be considered a RINO. He wouldn’t be enough for the radical right these days.

8 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:46:40pm

re: #3 darthstar

If the goddamn idiots from my side of the aisle don’t vote for this, they’re even dumber than I think! Right now it seems my side has been given over to zealots and bigots. Charles is right, me and RWR would be considered RINOS now. Buncha dipsticks.

9 darthstar  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:47:27pm

re: #7 Obdicut

Reagan certainly tied the right wing closer to the religious right in ways that are very unfortunate now, but I think Charles is completely right to say that Reagan would be considered a RINO. He wouldn’t be enough for the radical right these days.

He did KICK GRENADA’S FUCKING ASS!!! Serious macho there.

10 darthstar  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:48:21pm

re: #8 pingjockey

If the goddamn idiots from my side of the aisle don’t vote for this, they’re even dumber than I think! Right now it seems my side has been given over to zealots and bigots. Charles is right, me and RWR would be considered RINOS now. Buncha dipsticks.

They’ll vote for it…but not until they’ve had their TV sound-bytes claiming it’s an assault on middle America…gotta protect those votes first.

11 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:48:34pm

Medvedev is still playing coy as to how far they (Russia) will back the proposed sanctions on Iran. Without Russias support, anything the US or UN does will be toothless

12 SpaceJesus  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:48:49pm

republican and leukemia join forces to defeat health care

[Link: www.theonion.com…]

13 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:49:01pm

re: #10 darthstar
Gaaah!

14 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:49:06pm

re: #6 lawhawk

If that is not the ultimate “swords into plowshares” I have no idea what might be.

15 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:49:53pm

re: #11 sattv4u2
Same for China. IMO, there will be no sanctions of any consequence.

16 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:50:06pm

re: #5 Barrett Brown

Charles, just mentioned in the last thread that some joker tried to tag me as an anti-semite and thereby make you look bad by association; the deal was that I was interviewed by Antiwar radio about the Wikileaks thing, Justin Raimondo runs Antiwar and is supposed to be an anti-Semite according to this guy - who didn’t realize that Raimondo publicly attacked me for being a shill for Israel and for associating with you, which is to say I don’t really seem to be high up on Raimondo’s list of ideological allies. Wrote a post about it at True/Slant, there’s some other amusing stuff as well, particularly regarding R.S. McCain.

They’re working overtime to find a way to accuse me of having become an antisemite — which is insanely ludicrous. It’s part of the ongoing smear campaign.

But Raimondo may very well deserve that designation, after his numerous posts trying to claim that Israel knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance, and his feverish fantasy that I would be indicted in the AIPAC spying scandal. I’m not a fan.

18 bosforus  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:51:36pm
US and Russia Sign Nuclear Arms Reduction Treaty, Wingnuts Freak Out

I hate it when people who don’t have historically friendly attitudes towards each other agree on things!

19 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:51:37pm

re: #7 Obdicut

20 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:51:43pm

re: #16 Charles

They’re working overtime to find a way to accuse me of having become an antisemite — which is insanely ludicrous. It’s part of the ongoing smear campaign.

But Raimondo may very well deserve that designation, after his numerous posts trying to claim that Israel knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance, and his feverish fantasy that I would be indicted in the AIPAC spying scandal. I’m not a fan.

Raimondo is a whacked-out nutjob who makes RS McCain seem like Howdy Doody.

21 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:52:04pm

re: #4 Rightwingconspirator

OT:
No April 15 Tea Party in LA. I looked!

22 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:52:57pm

re: #18 bosforus
….So,Why are you being nice to us?
Your scaring me…Like that?

23 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:53:26pm

re: #19 Rightwingconspirator
Whoops most of my post went away!~
Reagan deserves considerable credit that first two years on the economy.

24 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:53:42pm

re: #21 Floral Giraffe

Darn it!

25 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:55:04pm

re: #5 Barrett Brown

And I just realized that the person who tried to link me with Raimondo is none other than “Render,” who used to be an LGF commenter, now another disgruntled loon.

26 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:55:13pm

re: #7 Obdicut

Reagan is kind of like JFK is for the Democrats, to the Republicans. When you ask what he actually did that was impressive outside of foreign policy, there isn’t really much to point directly to, and much of what he ‘did’ was really the achievement of legislators. And on foreign policy, they both have gigantic, glaring mis-steps.

He was huge in counteracting, successfully, some of the dumbest economic policies seen in a long time. It’s hard to ascribe much blame or credit to various presidents in economic expansions and contractions…that’s what the economy does…but Carter worked hard enough to make an exception. And i don’t mean that in a good way.

So there’s that, too.

27 Barrett Brown  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:57:50pm

re: #16 Charles

Yeah, I don’t know much about Raimondo; I have a libertarian friend who works for antiwar (and also runs a great website covering Bushwick section of Brooklyn) who vouches for him as a good guy, but he writes for Taki’s Mag, and additionally his comments attacking you and I were pretty unhinged and not very honest, which is why I eventually decided against inviting him to join Project PM even after I spoke to him and explained that, no, I don’t hate Arabs (my roommate is a hot Lebanese chick, incidentally, and she’s also my lawyer and best friend since I was 16), and no, you don’t want perpetual war against all of the Arab states or whatever loony shit he was accusing you of advocating.

28 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:57:51pm

re: #4 Rightwingconspirator

Ronald Reagan was a California Republican. That means RINO right there. The California party gets practically no support, the national party just writes off California every election it seems. Even a Republican Governor gets no traction as per the huge Dem majority in both houses in California, for about a decade now.

The problem is that we’ll elect Republican governors, but we end up trending blue in the nationals. Makes us pretty much useless to the national party.

29 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:59:20pm

re: #17 Alouette

This:

Last month, a group of the country’s highest Islamic authorities declared those supporting a ban on child marriages to be apostates.

and this:

In September, a 12-year-old Yemeni child-bride died after struggling for three days in labor to give birth, a local human rights organization said.

Horrifying. I pity the children who are born into such an oppressive, backwards society.

30 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:59:23pm

re: #27 Barrett Brown

Hot chicks are God’s hint that racism is bad…

31 Barrett Brown  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:59:46pm

Actually, I should probably replace my initial phrasing “I don’t know much about Raimondo” with “I know some stuff about Raimondo and he’s kind of fucking nuts and really, really hates Israel.”

32 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:59:58pm

re: #26 Aceofwhat?


Meh. I don’t think Reagan did anything economically that smart. Supply side economics is voodoo crap, in my opinion. If you think supply side works, then obviously you think Reagan did great things for the economy.

I generally agree with Krugman on supply-side.

33 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:00:47pm

re: #32 Obdicut

Meh. I don’t think Reagan did anything economically that smart. Supply side economics is voodoo crap, in my opinion. If you think supply side works, then obviously you think Reagan did great things for the economy.

I generally agree with Krugman on supply-side.

well…compared to the seventies…it worked. so i have that going for me;)

34 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:02:02pm
35 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:02:28pm

re: #21 Floral Giraffe

OT:
No April 15 Tea Party in LA. I looked!

There’s still time for you to organize one, Floral!

36 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:02:41pm

You can’t hug a Nirther with Nuclear Arms! /

37 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:03:26pm

Woo Hoo 8000 Comments and 10,000 Karma.

Can I put that on my resume?

38 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:03:34pm

re: #32 Obdicut

You are denying the actual result. The economy had a record improvement, and even record revenues in taxes. Of course the military buildup and S&L crisis became deficit spending, but the record revenues are a fact.

39 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:03:41pm

re: #28 SanFranciscoZionist

Don’t take this the wrong way…
I’m from Calif…and still love to visit ,but..
They are reaping what they’ve sown..!
All self inflicted by bending over for every Union,environmental and ethnic special interest goup and lobby that knocked on the door.
P.C. run amuck!
Breaks my heart!

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:04:04pm

re: #29 Slumbering Behemoth

This:

Horrifying. I pity the children who are born into such an oppressive, backwards society.

Childbirth is one thing, but normal intercourse with a thirteen-year-old girl shouldn’t end in her bleeding out. I wonder how stupid or brutal this ‘husband’ was. I assume they didn’t call a doctor in, either.

WTF.

41 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:04:45pm

re: #37 DaddyG

Wow. Congrats!

42 garhighway  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:05:05pm

re: #33 Aceofwhat?

well…compared to the seventies…it worked. so i have that going for me;)

Correlation does not equal causation.

43 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:05:12pm

re: #38 Rightwingconspirator
Speaking of Revenues. Georgia finally bottomed out with corporate taxes going up by a slim margin in March. Personal Income tax was still pathetic raising concerns about employment. I hope they start to climb soon.

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:05:33pm

re: #39 reloadingisnotahobby

Don’t take this the wrong way…
I’m from Calif…and still love to visit ,but..
They are reaping what they’ve sown..!
All self inflicted by bending over for every Union,environmental and ethnic special interest goup and lobby that knocked on the door.
P.C. run amuck!
Breaks my heart!

Don’t take this the wrong way, but not everyone agrees with your analysis.

45 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:05:44pm

I think they would consider Reagan a RINO today. Remember that he engaged Gorbachev and didn’t ignore him. And Geller again shows why she’s a lunatic with what she said.

46 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:05:46pm

re: #32 Obdicut

Meh. I don’t think Reagan did anything economically that smart. Supply side economics is voodoo crap, in my opinion. If you think supply side works, then obviously you think Reagan did great things for the economy.

I generally agree with Krugman on supply-side.

Krugman FTW

Even George Bush agrees!

47 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:06:10pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

Childbirth is one thing, but normal intercourse with a thirteen-year-old girl shouldn’t end in her bleeding out. I wonder how stupid or brutal this ‘husband’ was. I assume they didn’t call a doctor in, either.

WTF.

On the childbirth thing - why did they let her continue to labor for 3 days?
Why not a c-section? What was the deal with that?

Doesn’t seem to be any reason, IMO, for anyone to be allowed to struggle through labor for 3 days and then be left to die.

48 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:06:44pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

The whole ball of wax is a disgusting offense against humanity. We don’t know just how lucky we are not to have been born into such a bestial society.

49 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:06:56pm

re: #33 Aceofwhat?

You can’t definitely draw a line between the economic policies in place and the economy, especially when we know the economy has boom-bust cycles.

Andrew Samwick said a smart thing about tax cuts:

You are smart people. You know that the tax cuts have not fueled record revenues. You know what it takes to establish causality. You know that the first order effect of cutting taxes is to lower tax revenues. We all agree that the ultimate reduction in tax revenues can be less than this first order effect, because lower tax rates encourage greater economic activity and thus expand the tax base. No thoughtful person believes that this possible offset more than compensated for the first effect for these tax cuts. Not a single one.

And the CBO has scored the effect of the Bush tax cuts, and they cost trillions— they reduced tax revenue. I think this is one of the reasons the GOP is attacking the CBO so hard these days.

50 darthstar  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:07:00pm

re: #37 DaddyG

Woo Hoo 8000 Comments and 10,000 Karma.

Can I put that on my resume?

4200 comments and I’ve only been here 4 months. I think if I hit 8000 comments in that amount of time I’d HAVE to put it on my resume…as I wouldn’t have a job anymore.
;)

51 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:07:27pm

re: #32 Obdicut

Try comparing the results of Reagan’s efforts to Nixon’s efforts to defeat inflation. Reagan-Success. Nixon-FAIL.

52 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:07:34pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist
There’s 4 words that should never be together…normal intercourse and thirteen year old girl. oops 5 words.

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:08:03pm

re: #45 HappyWarrior

I think they would consider Reagan a RINO today. Remember that he engaged Gorbachev and didn’t ignore him. And Geller again shows why she’s a lunatic with what she said.

Well, it’s part of the fantasy now that even looking at the enemy encourages him. Whereas Reagan was constantly chatting with the Sovs, glad-handing them, showing up to meetings…RINO!

54 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:08:31pm

re: #39 reloadingisnotahobby

Don’t take this the wrong way…
I’m from Calif…and still love to visit ,but..
They are reaping what they’ve sown..!
All self inflicted by bending over for every Union,environmental and ethnic special interest goup and lobby that knocked on the door.
P.C. run amuck!
Breaks my heart!

Hey, why don’t you like, put the mumbojumbo ellipsis salad away and google Prop 13. That’s what was inflicted. Ballot initiative crap that ruined their government. Blaming it on unions and greenies? Yeah, pal. Sure. Give me a drag off that J before you toss it out.

Partisans, sheesh.

55 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:08:39pm

re: #38 Rightwingconspirator

So is the amount added to the deficit by the Bush tax cuts. You cannot draw a direct line between economic policies and the economy. And not every economic growth is healthy, as Iceland can well tell you— or we can simply reflect on the mortgage crisis.

56 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:09:02pm

re: #32 Obdicut

Meh. I don’t think Reagan did anything economically that smart. Supply side economics is voodoo crap, in my opinion. If you think supply side works, then obviously you think Reagan did great things for the economy.

I generally agree with Krugman on supply-side.

Meh. Krugman is too partisan for my taste. Give me someone who doesn’t toss their analytical gifts aside every time they throw a hissy fit.

57 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:09:51pm

BBIAB

58 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:09:56pm

re: #54 WindUpBird

There is one union I’d like to see side-lined, the prison guards union given the fact that they help the prison industrial complex squeeze california.

59 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:10:20pm

re: #39 reloadingisnotahobby

No, that is not the problem in California.

The problem is the way that we pass budgets and the way we raise taxes. We can have our cake and eat it too. And the electorate has put itself in this position.

It’s really stupid, but it is also a very wonky problem.

60 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:10:23pm

re: #42 garhighway

Correlation does not equal causation.

Let me help you. Carter’s economic policies caused bad. Reagan’s caused improvement.

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:10:41pm

re: #47 reine.de.tout

On the childbirth thing - why did they let her continue to labor for 3 days?
Why not a c-section? What was the deal with that?

Doesn’t seem to be any reason, IMO, for anyone to be allowed to struggle through labor for 3 days and then be left to die.

Most of Yemen is pretty rural, IIRC. They might not have had access to someone who could do a C-section.

I remember a class on family in the Renaissance where a professor said that the stats basically showed that if you were a woman, and survived your first childbirth, the odds were good on you outliving your husband.

But that first birth was the hurdle, and the younger girls married, the lower their chances.

The Spartans were thought nuts in the ancient world for not letting girls marry until they were twenty, but I bet their childbirth mortality stats were a lot better than the ones in Corinth.

62 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:10:47pm
63 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:10:54pm

re: #7 Obdicut

Reagan is kind of like JFK is for the Democrats, to the Republicans. When you ask what he actually did that was impressive outside of foreign policy, there isn’t really much to point directly to, and much of what he ‘did’ was really the achievement of legislators. And on foreign policy, they both have gigantic, glaring mis-steps.

But they have an iconic value that I think is partially due to their leadership in times of crisis. It’s not to say that’s not something to value, but it’s about the dual nature of the President— is his goal to lead, to be the face of America confronting and dealing with the world, or dealing with the domestic issues in the US?

Reagan certainly tied the right wing closer to the religious right in ways that are very unfortunate now, but I think Charles is completely right to say that Reagan would be considered a RINO. He wouldn’t be enough for the radical right these days.

Reagan is a hero because he’s the one Republican president that went out on top in the last few decades.

64 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:11:09pm

re: #56 Aceofwhat?

I don’t think that’s a fair analysis of Krugman, by any means.

His books are pretty free from hissiness. Have you read any of them?

65 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:11:45pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

Childbirth is one thing, but normal intercourse with a thirteen-year-old girl shouldn’t end in her bleeding out. I wonder how stupid or brutal this ‘husband’ was. I assume they didn’t call a doctor in, either.

WTF.

I’m wondering if she had FGM done on her just before her wedding night.

66 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:11:50pm

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

Don’t take this the wrong way, but not everyone agrees with your analysis.


In Georgia we’re suffering from the opposite problem. 46th lowest total tax burden per capita in the nation - but we’re struggling to hold on to providing basic state services to the increasing number of recipients. Our public transportation and education are near the bottom too. We’ve just recently started improving our college education system but there are threats of draconian cuts with the most recent budget.

I’m against changing our constitution and using debt to fund our state government but we could raise some taxes and fees without it being too much of a negative impact on the economy.

As in all cases there is a diminishing return on too many or too few taxes. The “ideologically pure” stands of both parties are too extreme and states and the Feds really need to look at a reasonable return on tax dollars. Right now the Feds are too eager to go into debt and my state is a little to eager to balance the budget on the back of state employees and cuts to services.

67 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:13:02pm

re: #58 Dreggas

There is one union I’d like to see side-lined, the prison guards union given the fact that they help the prison industrial complex squeeze california.

Creepy o_o

68 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:13:06pm

re: #25 Charles

And I just realized that the person who tried to link me with Raimondo is none other than “Render,” who used to be an LGF commenter, now another disgruntled loon.

What was it? Another sock puppet?

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:13:11pm

re: #65 Alouette

I’m wondering if she had FGM done on her just before her wedding night.

Oh, shit. I hadn’t even thought of that, but that would explain it.

Do you ever just want to get up on a high mountain and scream at the whole world to get their shit together NOW?

70 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:14:13pm

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

yes but I know no one would hear me and even if they did they would never understand.

71 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:14:44pm

re: #49 Obdicut

You can’t definitely draw a line between the economic policies in place and the economy, especially when we know the economy has boom-bust cycles.

Andrew Samwick said a smart thing about tax cuts:

And the CBO has scored the effect of the Bush tax cuts, and they cost trillions— they reduced tax revenue. I think this is one of the reasons the GOP is attacking the CBO so hard these days.

You need to read your Mankiw. Half of a capital cut is self-financing.

(And Krugman’s response is as analytically void as it is partisan, in case you’re wondering)

72 darthstar  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:15:35pm

re: #65 Alouette

I’m wondering if she had FGM done on her just before her wedding night.

That practice makes me cry whenever I hear about it.

73 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:15:49pm

re: #54 WindUpBird

Hey, why don’t you like, put the mumbojumbo ellipsis salad away and google Prop 13. That’s what was inflicted. Ballot initiative crap that ruined their government. Blaming it on unions and greenies? Yeah, pal. Sure. Give me a drag off that J before you toss it out.

Partisans, sheesh.

why do government employees, in general, need a union again? i’m having a hard time with that one.

miners need a union. not govt clerks.

74 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:17:25pm

re: #64 Obdicut

I don’t think that’s a fair analysis of Krugman, by any means.

His books are pretty free from hissiness. Have you read any of them?

Yes, his books are much better than his columns. No question about that. It just doesn’t excuse his columns.

75 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:17:41pm

re: #71 Aceofwhat?

You need to read your Mankiw. Half of a capital cut is self-financing.

(And Krugman’s response is as analytically void as it is partisan, in case you’re wondering)

Wait, Mankiw isn’t partisan? Romney? Bush? American Enterprise Institute?

76 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:18:45pm

re: #73 Aceofwhat?

why do government employees, in general, need a union again? i’m having a hard time with that one.

miners need a union. not govt clerks.

I’m pro union in general (especially for dangerous jobs like mining) but I thought we were talking of the reasons California is in dire straits. 8-)

77 jordash1212  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:20:08pm

Obama is a realist. The symbolic political rhetoric simply does not phase his policy decisions. Call it dishonesty (all politicians are dishonest), but I’m happy he seems to understand the intricacies of international politics (and so what if he’s a slow learner).

All you need is 1 nuke. The world will celebrate him as a champion of world peace, and meanwhile he’s not jeopardizing America’s security interests. That’s one feather under his cap. Now let’s see what he can do about Iran.

78 Lidane  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:20:18pm

re: #45 HappyWarrior

I think they would consider Reagan a RINO today.

Which utterly blows my mind. With the way they venerate Reagan, you’d think they’d actually know what he stood for.

I was a kid when Reagan was President, since I was 7 when he was elected and 15 when he left office. My memories of his presidency are vague, and are largely confined to the big ticket events (Iran-Contra, “Tear down this wall!”, the Challenger explosion, etc.), but that’s because I didn’t pay much attention back then.

Looking back on him now, I think I would like him, even if I disagreed on policy. Same goes for Goldwater. The fact that both men would be RINOs in today’s Republican party says more about the state of the party than it ever will about both men.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:21:28pm

re: #78 Lidane

Which utterly blows my mind. With the way they venerate Reagan, you’d think they’d actually know what he stood for.

What he stands for, to them, is winning.

80 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:21:48pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

What he stands for, to them, is winning.

exactly right.

81 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:22:17pm

re: #75 WindUpBird

Wait, Mankiw isn’t partisan? Romney? Bush? American Enterprise Institute?

Yeah, he’s a Harvard Prof. Real whack job.

Why is it that whenever a democrat listens to an expert, they’re being “data-oriented”, but whenever a republican listens to an expert, they’ve “purchased the expert”?

Here’s a napkin. You have partisan dribbling from your chin…

82 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:24:03pm

re: #76 WindUpBird

I’m pro union in general (especially for dangerous jobs like mining) but I thought we were talking of the reasons California is in dire straits. 8-)

Heh. Good one;)

I think it’s fair to ask whether public employees in Cali are overcompensated compared to their equivalent position in the private sector…when discussing the Cali budget…

83 eastsider  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:25:04pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

What he stands for, to them, is winning.

The issue at heart is for Republicans:

winning elections > instituting sound policy or governing effectively

You’d think they’d be related….

84 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:25:25pm

re: #75 WindUpBird

Wait, Mankiw isn’t partisan? Romney? Bush? American Enterprise Institute?

And i linked to an article published by HBS…i thought we liked peer-reviewed stuff around here…?

85 Lidane  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:25:30pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

What he stands for, to them, is winning.

Well, true. But what they forget is that Reagan appealed to people across the board. He wasn’t a raving far-right lunatic, at least as far as I can tell.

86 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:25:42pm

re: #71 Aceofwhat?

Um, Mankiw said that the Bush tax cuts didn’t raise revenue. He also (falsely) said that Bush hadn’t claimed that they had.

87 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:25:44pm

re: #77 jordash1212

Gotta disagree with you on that one - if you had only 1 nuke - and the other guy had more than 1, the other guy would have a distinct advantage.

The other guy could fire his nukes at you and the likelihood of a retaliatory strike was limited because you took out his nuclear weapons.

We’re not quite at the point where we’re talking about the elimination of nuclear weapons altogether, but some minimum level is needed to protect against rogue states and to maintain the deterrence capability.

88 eastsider  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:25:51pm

re: #76 WindUpBird

I’m pro union in general (especially for dangerous jobs like mining) but I thought we were talking of the reasons California is in dire straits. 8-)

UNION BAD! ME NO LIKE YOU.

/teabagger reflex

89 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:25:56pm

re: #85 Lidane

Well, true. But what they forget is that Reagan appealed to people across the board. He wasn’t a raving far-right lunatic, at least as far as I can tell.

indeed

90 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:26:27pm

re: #81 Aceofwhat?

Yeah, he’s a Harvard Prof. Real whack job.

Why is it that whenever a democrat listens to an expert, they’re being “data-oriented”, but whenever a republican listens to an expert, they’ve “purchased the expert”?

Here’s a napkin. You have partisan dribbling from your chin…

You brought up Krugman being partisan. That’s why I brought it up. What I’m saying is, you indicted Krugman for being partisan even though he’s CRITICIZING Obama’s polices. And then your example of who to aspire to is a guy who advised Bush and Romney. I’m sure the guy’s brilliant, but I’m also sure that he’s philosophically conservative and ideologically conservative.

Krugman isn’t part of the political system the way Mankiw is, is what I’m saying. AEI is as partisan as it gets, really.

91 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:26:38pm

re: #78 Lidane

Which utterly blows my mind. With the way they venerate Reagan, you’d think they’d actually know what he stood for.

I was a kid when Reagan was President, since I was 7 when he was elected and 15 when he left office. My memories of his presidency are vague, and are largely confined to the big ticket events (Iran-Contra, “Tear down this wall!”, the Challenger explosion, etc.), but that’s because I didn’t pay much attention back then.

Looking back on him now, I think I would like him, even if I disagreed on policy. Same goes for Goldwater. The fact that both men would be RINOs in today’s Republican party says more about the state of the party than it ever will about both men.

I wasn’t even two when Bush I was inaugurated so I have no memories of his presidency. I think while I would be no fan of his policy I could see myself liking him personally as well though of recent republican presidents the one I could see myself having a nice conversation with most would be W Bush since him and I are both big baseball fans. The thing is a vocal component of the modern right seems to consider any government intervention in the economy to be socialist and seems to consider every left wing movement to be socialist. I wonder if these people would have screamed at Reagan for working with a labor movement, Solidarity in Poland to bring down Communism there.

92 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:27:05pm

re: #84 Aceofwhat?

And i linked to an article published by HBS…i thought we liked peer-reviewed stuff around here…?

Peer-reviewed: great! Different standards for Krugman vs Mankiw: not great!

93 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:27:34pm

re: #88 eastsider

UNION BAD! ME NO LIKE YOU.

/teabagger reflex

GREEN TEA SMASH!

94 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:27:53pm

re: #86 Obdicut

Um, Mankiw said that the Bush tax cuts didn’t raise revenue. He also (falsely) said that Bush hadn’t claimed that they had.

naw, here’s what he said

95 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:28:05pm

re: #90 WindUpBird

I think it’s more than Mankiw made fun of the the idea that the Bush tax cuts produced more revenue, so using him to support the tax cuts is a little odd.

[Link: www.spinsanity.org…]

96 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:28:38pm

re: #82 Aceofwhat?

Heh. Good one;)

I think it’s fair to ask whether public employees in Cali are overcompensated compared to their equivalent position in the private sector…when discussing the Cali budget…

It’s fair if it’s significant. Do you think union workers getting some extra cheddar is a truly major, significant factor in breaking CA’s budget?

or is it a talking point to distract from prop 13?

97 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:28:54pm

re: #94 Aceofwhat?

I know what he said, Ace. I just linked to it.

98 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:29:11pm

re: #95 Obdicut

I think it’s more than Mankiw made fun of the the idea that the Bush tax cuts produced more revenue, so using him to support the tax cuts is a little odd.

[Link: www.spinsanity.org…]

This is why you’re the smart guy and I draw monsters and animate lego men for a living *_*

99 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:29:54pm

re: #96 WindUpBird

Also, California has a very low ratio of government workers to population.

[Link: californiawatch.org…]

100 EastSider  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:30:15pm

Here’s what I said on an earlier post on the nukes. Still think its true.

The threats we face today are way different since the USSR fell. We have to alter our defensive posture, tactics, spending, as well as the communications and signals we send to the world.

Nukes haven’t and won’t ever deter terrorism. Nor can you use them effectively against terrorists.

If this signal and the shift in subsequent American policy reduces the number Nukes in the world by some number, that’s a number less that current (and future) terrorists will be unable to get their hands on.

Frankly, I don’t feel naked or unprotected at all.

101 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:30:52pm

re: #98 WindUpBird

I make children’s toys for a living. We’re not so dissimilar, you and I.

Hey, are you a social dude? I think you might really get a kick out of my best friend Sean, who lives up in Portland. He’s a perennially broke sweetheart weirdo who used to be a homeless addict and managed to straighten his life up.

he’s also the best writer I’ve ever met.

102 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:31:21pm

re: #90 WindUpBird

You brought up Krugman being partisan. That’s why I brought it up. What I’m saying is, you indicted Krugman for being partisan even though he’s CRITICIZING Obama’s polices. And then your example of who to aspire to is a guy who advised Bush and Romney. I’m sure the guy’s brilliant, but I’m also sure that he’s philosophically conservative and ideologically conservative.

Krugman isn’t part of the political system the way Mankiw is, is what I’m saying. AEI is as partisan as it gets, really.

I am indicting Krugman for being partisan because he contradicts himself with astonishing frequency in an effort to be partisan.

That is what i mean by “partisan”…highly selective when using data to form conclusions. AFAIK, Mankiw does not, on his blog or in his other work, frequently and severely contradict his more scholarly efforts.

Let’s keep our definitions straight. Partisan is as partisan does, not as partisan “is employed by”. I don’t care who Krugman writes for. I care what he writes.

Stop telling me who Mankiw works for. Tell me what he’s written, if you disagree with him so strongly.

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:31:59pm

re: #85 Lidane

Well, true. But what they forget is that Reagan appealed to people across the board. He wasn’t a raving far-right lunatic, at least as far as I can tell.

Not compared to the raving far-right lunatics we got today!!!

104 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:32:05pm

re: #96 WindUpBird

It’s fair if it’s significant. Do you think union workers getting some extra cheddar is a truly major, significant factor in breaking CA’s budget?

or is it a talking point to distract from prop 13?

now THAT is a good question. i don’t know. but i agree that it’s fair only if it’s significant.

105 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:32:41pm

re: #102 Aceofwhat?

Ace, I’m sorry, but I can’t even understand the grounds you’re criticizing Krugman on but excepting Mankiw from. I honestly have no clue what your argument is.

106 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:33:19pm

re: #97 Obdicut

I know what he said, Ace. I just linked to it.

oh, it didn’t come through in #86. do you mean in #95?

107 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:34:02pm

Hell, Reagan openly appealed to union workers and I will point out the only former union president to become president. There are many on the right today who considers unions evil. Personally, while unions aren’t perfect I believe they had and have a purpose. Having a miners union really made things a lot easier on my great grandfather. Amazing man really. After his first wife died he raised my grandmother’s half siblings on his own until he married my great grandmother.

108 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:34:49pm

re: #106 Aceofwhat?

Yes, in 95.

109 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:34:50pm

re: #101 Obdicut

I make children’s toys for a living. We’re not so dissimilar, you and I.

Hey, are you a social dude? I think you might really get a kick out of my best friend Sean, who lives up in Portland. He’s a perennially broke sweetheart weirdo who used to be a homeless addict and managed to straighten his life up.

he’s also the best writer I’ve ever met.

Aren’t people addicted to being homeless also known as “hobos”?

I kid. I kid…

110 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:37:01pm

re: #105 Obdicut

Ace, I’m sorry, but I can’t even understand the grounds you’re criticizing Krugman on but excepting Mankiw from. I honestly have no clue what your argument is.

in very basic terms, Krugman generally finds that supply-side economics hold no water.

Mankiw demonstrates that tax cuts do not pay for themselves, as supply-side economists might traditionally have you believe, but they do discount themselves.

The CBO uses no discount to score the cost of a tax cut. AFAIK, Krugman agrees with that method.

Mankiw’s model, though, seems to have been well-received amongst…shall we say…a good number of economists. His model would have the CBO discount the effect of certain tax cuts because they do in part generate revenue as a direct result.

is that clearer?

111 garhighway  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:37:13pm

re: #94 Aceofwhat?

naw, here’s what he said

Talk about a quibble.

“I didn’t test the theory, I modeled it.”

“Income tax cuts don’t recoup only 17% in revenues, they probably recoup 25%.”

That’s the guy’s best case?

112 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:37:37pm

re: #107 HappyWarrior

Hell, Reagan openly appealed to union workers and I will point out the only former union president to become president. There are many on the right today who considers unions evil. Personally, while unions aren’t perfect I believe they had and have a purpose. Having a miners union really made things a lot easier on my great grandfather. Amazing man really. After his first wife died he raised my grandmother’s half siblings on his own until he married my great grandmother.

totally agree. (except for the family part…i wouldn’t know/)

113 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:38:50pm

re: #111 garhighway

Talk about a quibble.

“I didn’t test the theory, I modeled it.”

“Income tax cuts don’t recoup only 17% in revenues, they probably recoup 25%.”

That’s the guy’s best case?

read the paper, not the blog. that was a specific point.

114 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:40:14pm

re: #110 Aceofwhat?

Sure. That’s clearer. And I can still point out that the claim by Bush et al. was that the tax cuts had paid for themselves and more, which they hadn’t.

If a tax cut can only partially pay for itself, that means that it costs. That means it lowered tax revenue. And that is something that supply-side advocates generally do not in the least confront.

I have to go do some serious work now, so I won’t be around for other stuff. But suffice it to say that I still have no clue on what grounds you think it’s fair to declare Krugman to be partisan and Mankiw— who actually worked on Romney’s campaign— to be nonpartisan.

115 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:40:42pm

re: #95 Obdicut

I think it’s more than Mankiw made fun of the the idea that the Bush tax cuts produced more revenue, so using him to support the tax cuts is a little odd.

[Link: www.spinsanity.org…]

Well, exactly. He’s willing to be nonpartisan about these things.

We ought to change the way that we score tax cuts, in opposition with what i’ve read from Krugman.

116 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:41:30pm

re: #112 Aceofwhat?

totally agree. (except for the family part…i wouldn’t know/)

Yep, I think this is why I am totally awestruck when people act like unions were never necessary. It’s like they have no understanding of the conditions that led to the formation of unions in the first place.

117 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:42:15pm

re: #114 Obdicut

Sure. That’s clearer. And I can still point out that the claim by Bush et al. was that the tax cuts had paid for themselves and more, which they hadn’t.

If a tax cut can only partially pay for itself, that means that it costs. That means it lowered tax revenue. And that is something that supply-side advocates generally do not in the least confront.

I have to go do some serious work now, so I won’t be around for other stuff. But suffice it to say that I still have no clue on what grounds you think it’s fair to declare Krugman to be partisan and Mankiw— who actually worked on Romney’s campaign— to be nonpartisan.

ok. i say it because Mankiw clearly has no problem contradicting republicans. somewhere around here i have some links to Krugman whoppers, the kind you won’t find from Mankiw.

i’m not saying that supply-side economists have it right. I’m just saying the truth seems to be somewhere in between them and Krugman…right about where Mankiw is…and he gets points for calling a spade a spade.

118 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:43:49pm

re: #81 Aceofwhat?

Yeah, he’s a Harvard Prof. Real whack job.

Why is it that whenever a democrat listens to an expert, they’re being “data-oriented”, but whenever a republican listens to an expert, they’ve “purchased the expert”?

Here’s a napkin. You have partisan dribbling from your chin…

Oh, SNAP!

119 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:47:48pm

Paul Krugman, 1/27/04

According to cleverly misleading reports from the Heritage Foundation and other like-minded sources, the deficit is growing because Mr. Bush isn’t sufficiently conservative: he’s allowing runaway growth in domestic spending … Is domestic spending really exploding? Think about it: farm subsidies aside, which domestic programs have received lavish budget increases over the last three years? Education? Don’t be silly … In fact, many government agencies are severely underfinanced.

Paul Krugman’s former student, the one who prepared the report, replies:


“Professor Krugman asserted that non-defense, non-9/11 spending isn’t increasing, but he gave no evidence. A November 2003 paper of mine shows that less than half of the $296 billion federal spending increase in 2003 compared to 2001 can be attributed to defense and the 9/11 attacks. Those other federal programs expanded 11% over those two years.

“Professor Krugman asserted that education spending is not increasing. In reality it jumped from $35 billion to $58 billion (65%) from 2001 to 2003.

“Professor Krugman draws a blank after asking “farm subsidies aside, which domestic programs have received lavish budget increases over the last three years?” The answer he couldn’t provide:

* unemployment benefits (85%)
* education (65%)
* general government (63%)
* air transportation (52%)
* community/regional development (43%)
* health research (32%)
* veterans’ assistance (27%)
* Medicaid (24%) and
* income security programs (21%).

“And these spending increases occurred in just two years (2001 to2003) — a period even shorter than Professor Krugman’s three-year range.

“I just wanted to clear up any confusion. Feel free to pass these numbers on to anyone who is still confused on federal spending.”

You won’t find Mankiw pulling that crap.

120 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:54:19pm

re: #114 Obdicut

But suffice it to say that I still have no clue on what grounds you think it’s fair to declare Krugman to be partisan and Mankiw— who actually worked on Romney’s campaign— to be nonpartisan.

Again, this obsession with equating employment to partisanship is mystifying to me. It’s illogical, which in a complement to you, is not typical.

The question is not who his employer is. The question is whether his employment has affected his consistency on important positions.

Mankiw? Not as far as i know. Krugman? You bet your scandinavian ass!

121 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 2:31:53pm

re: #55 Obdicut

Now you are changing the subject from Reagan and his record.

122 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 2:38:08pm

Damn now we are defenseless against nuclear armed enemies, surely we will be attacked any second now!

With us limited to only 1550 nuclear warheads deployed and ready to be launched on rockets from the ground or subs or dropped from bombers and another 800 that are not “deployed” (think maintenence or rotation for inspection before redeployment).

Yep it sure sounds as if we will be completely defenseless to me…not.

Russia has a total area of 17,075,200 sq km of which only 16,995,800 sq km are land (roughly 1.8 times the size of the continental United States). Therefore it would take approximately 85 average sized nukes from our arsenal if properly targeted and spaced to kill about 80% of the entire Russian population.

1550 therefore would be enough to kill everyone in Russia at minimum slightly more than sixteen times over, our other 800 “non-deployed” warheads would be enough to kill them another 9-10 times.

Yep, certainly sounds as though we would be left completely defenseless to me…

/

123 blueraven  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 2:52:42pm

re: #56 Aceofwhat?

Meh. Krugman is too partisan for my taste. Give me someone who doesn’t toss their analytical gifts aside every time they throw a hissy fit.


How about Bruce Bartlett?

Bruce Bartlett is a columnist for Forbes.com, the online side of Forbes, the nation’s premier financial magazine. He served for many years in prominent governmental positions including executive director of the Joint Economic Committee of Congress, Deputy Assistant Secretary for economic policy at the U.S. Treasury Department during the George H.W. Bush Administration, and as a senior policy analyst in the White House for Ronald Reagan

[Link: capitalgainsandgames.com…]

124 cgn38navy  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 2:59:07pm

People forget how awesome Reagan was. It is too bad that the atmosphere is so politically charged that President Obama’s good accomplishments aren’t recognized.

Charles is still seeing racism behind every tree. I didn’t see that in the blurb. Are you refering to “Gangsta”? Weak, unless you have a presupposition that the virgin referred to is white and the “Gangsta” is black(which might actually be a racist assumption on your part). When I think of Chicago Land gangsta’s I tend to thing of Al Capone, prohibition, zoot suits, etc etc.

125 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:02:16pm

re: #124 cgn38navy

You’ve flipped, dude.

126 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:05:50pm

re: #120 Aceofwhat?

How on earth can you think that you’re a competent judge of that, Ace?

Does it strike you as at all odd that you grant the person who’s views you like the status of non-partisan, and that of the guy you dislike as partisan?

I think Krugman is plenty partisan, to a set of ideas and ideals. I think that affects where he directs his work. It doesn’t in the least affect the credibility of his work.

I’m not sure where your bafflement about equating partisanship and employment comes from. Employment is one of the things cited to show partisan nature. If someone is employed solely by one party throughout ones career, one picks up a ‘partisan’ label from that.

I think you’re overemphasizing how bad ‘partisan’ is— Thomas Jefferson was a very fierce partisan— and then finding yourself in the position where you need to have it be a label that only attaches to those you dislike. Otherwise I don’t really get what you’re saying other than a rather silly claim that you have the ability to discern partisan from non-partisan economic analysis at that level.

127 cgn38navy  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:05:55pm

re: #76 WindUpBird

I grew up in Michigan in the 70-80’s and many in my high school had big hopes of graduating and landing a UAW plant job. No kidding, there were janitors getting paid $20 an hour with overtime and benfits in small towns in Michigan in 1983. Skilled workers even more.
We can all see how it turned out.

128 cgn38navy  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:06:41pm

re: #125 Obdicut

Maybe, but I guess I was dead-on about the VAT tax, huh?

129 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:08:59pm

re: #128 cgn38navy

Jesus christ. You tapdance like a maniac.

You just defended an obviously racist attack as non-racist. “Gangsta” was not something that applied to the old mob, and you know it. Pretending you don’t just makes you look like a complete fucking moron.

130 cgn38navy  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:12:03pm

re: #129 Obdicut
Whatever, it’s weak. I don’t like her much, but it takes more than that to be racist in this day and age.

131 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:16:39pm

re: #130 cgn38navy

Yeah. Implying that Obama is like a Chicago ‘gangsta’ slipping a virgin a rufy isn’t the least bit racist.

You’re round the bend.

132 cgn38navy  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:17:00pm

re: #129 Obdicut

Not tap dancing, just wanted to rub it in about the VAT tax on the way to pay for the spending, as was predicted and we debated about a while back.

133 cgn38navy  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:17:54pm

re: #131 Obdicut

Are you assuming the Virgin is white? Physician, heal thyself.

134 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:19:11pm

re: #133 cgn38navy

How did what I said imply the virgin is white, in any way? I’m really curious as to how you answer this one.

135 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:19:55pm

re: #124 cgn38navy

WTF? did you have a point beyond babbling incoherently about unrelated points?

136 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:26:09pm

re: #124 cgn38navy

I didn’t forget, I voted for him twice, he completely screwed the pooch in his first term but promised to do better and made you believe it. He did much better in his second term, he made a lot of people very happy, but mainly by massive deficit spending, and also massive tax cuts for the already wealthy. I remember Reagan very clearly from first hand experience, it seems that you do not. You believe in the myth, not in the actual substance.

137 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:27:16pm

re: #54 WindUpBird

Hang on. When you examine revenues in California there is a lot of money. A lot of money per resident. One of the worlds top 10 economies in fact. Track the spending and added benefits, and you see spending goes up with revenues. But nobody ever provides a good plan for cutting spending when revenues do fall, and we always have times that happens. Prop 13 is just a convenient scapegoat, requiring us to pretend California has spending limits or anything akin to paygo. It does not.

[Link: www.lao.ca.gov…]

138 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:28:10pm

re: #55 Obdicut

If one can not draw a direct line between policy and outcome, just exactly how unrelated would you claim deficit spending policies are on the state budget?

139 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:29:06pm

re: #124 cgn38navy

Charles is still seeing racism behind every tree.

And with that comment you can just piss right off.

140 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:30:58pm

re: #127 cgn38navy

I grew up in Michigan in the 70-80’s and many in my high school had big hopes of graduating and landing a UAW plant job. No kidding, there were janitors getting paid $20 an hour with overtime and benfits in small towns in Michigan in 1983. Skilled workers even more.
We can all see how it turned out.

Out, finished, flushed, sacked!

Y’all don’t come back now, you hear?

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:31:44pm

re: #134 Obdicut

How did what I said imply the virgin is white, in any way? I’m really curious as to how you answer this one.

that guy gave me the internet creeps from day one. Yuck.

142 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:31:52pm

re: #138 Rightwingconspirator

Well, they’re as related as the terms of their repayment and their effects on the governments ability to borrow, which would be indirect.

However, what I said was that there isn’t a direct line between government domestic economic policies and the actual behavior of the market. There’s a lot of other forces at work, and they can be much stronger than what’s being forced by the government, especially if the government is mainly being regulatory.

In other words, the general economic view of central control of economy is to stabilize risk, which means stabilizing boom/bust. The ability of central planning to actually do that is argued a lot, but it’s clearly greater than lack of regulation. However, lack of regulation will cause larger peaks, and more volatile markets in general.

A measurement of volatility in the markets is a much harder one, because what timespan do you cover? Even macroeconomics spanning decades show very kinkily individual responses.

143 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:33:32pm

re: #139 Charles

And with that comment you can just piss right off.

YEAH!

It gets very tiresome replying to historical revisionists who make up their own reality as they go along over and over and over…

144 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:35:41pm

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

Oh, SNAP!

and then Obdicut bats all the runs in 8-)

145 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:37:22pm

re: #144 WindUpBird

You just like that I used the word ‘kinky’ to describe economic behavior.

146 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:38:29pm

re: #101 Obdicut

I make children’s toys for a living. We’re not so dissimilar, you and I.

Hey, are you a social dude? I think you might really get a kick out of my best friend Sean, who lives up in Portland. He’s a perennially broke sweetheart weirdo who used to be a homeless addict and managed to straighten his life up.

he’s also the best writer I’ve ever met.

I am a social dude! I do a karaoke thing every week which I often invite new folks to. And he sounds like a lot of my friends, actually, some of which were perpetual couch surfer artists, moving around the country.

“Sweetheart weirdo” is like a third of the demographic of portland :D :D

147 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:39:32pm

re: #145 Obdicut

You just like that I used the word ‘kinky’ to describe economic behavior.

yes! Also, it’s a real thing for cars too: Hofmeister Kink

148 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:41:27pm

re: #146 WindUpBird

Cool. Can you shoot me an email? It’s just my username here on gmail. He’s also going to be best man at my wedding.

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:41:52pm

re: #148 Obdicut

Cool. Can you shoot me an email? It’s just my username here on gmail. He’s also going to be best man at my wedding.

doin’ it now!

150 ExCamelJockey  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:55:25pm

The Atlas Shrugs post is about the changes to the Nuclear Posture Review. It really doesn’t mention the arms reduction treaty. Is there another link in which AS is criticizing the new START Treaty?

I think many would appreciate the reduction in nukes, possibly even Reagan. However with the changes to the Review we gave up retaliation options and removed the necessary ambiguity around our nuke policy and we received nothing in return. Not good.

151 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 3:56:44pm

re: #148 Obdicut

Sent you a big fat email :D

152 captdiggs  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 6:24:15pm

Basically, all this does is cut some expensive old hardware from the inventory. Both nations are looking to save on expenses.
It’s a good thing, but more show than substance as far as threats go.

I do have a different view of nukes in the hands of those who fear a nuclear Armageddon.
Nuclear weapons have actually prevented conventional war just because of the threat of such a catastrophe.
It is more than likely the (ex) Soviet Union and the US would have waged a conventional war had it not been for the nuclear threat. And certainly the reason the arab nations have forgone another attempt at annihilating Israel is that they fear the same nuclear threat….imo, anyway

153 jordash1212  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 8:09:19pm

re: #87 lawhawk

As long as the attacking country has the slightest doubt he has missed the target, it’s highly unlikely a nuclear weapon will be used. Our country is so large that it can easily be hidden, placed on a submarine, etc. This isn’t Israel we’re talking about where a few well placed bombs could obliterate the entire nation.


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