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Video: Fox News Pimps Creationist Grievance-Mongering and Book-Banning

Wingnuts • Views: 825

Here’s Fox News again, pimping creationism and fundamentalist grievance-mongering in a story about a parent in Tennessee who’s trying to get a biology textbook banned.

Gretchen Carlson, in a voice dripping with horror: “A high school biology book is at the center of a small-town controversy because it describes creationism as … a Biblical myth, Brian!

The definition of “myth:”

myth |miθ|
noun

1 a traditional story, esp. one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

Describing creationism as a Biblical myth is 100% accurate, of course, as you can see from the definition. But in their blinkered fundamentalist daze, these blow-dried empty talking heads are promoting the view that it’s somehow deserving of respect on the same level with evolutionary science, and calling for banning books that don’t give them what they want.

And now, of course, hard core creationists have picked up on this opportunity, and are pushing for even more outrageous concessions: Ban a Science Book? School Board Delays Action.

Karen Carson, of the West Knox County 5th District, tried to find middle ground with an amendment that would have upheld the school committee’s recommendation but also offered to biology teachers a critical analysis of the textbook submitted by Zimmermann and written by Charles Voss. (Voss, a professor emeritus of electrical engineering at Louisiana State University, is a longtime activist for the cause of creationism and vice president of an outfit called the Origins Resource Association.) But Carson’s amendment satisfied no one, especially after she revised it to make it subject to review by school system science staff, and it failed on a 3-6 vote.

That opened the floor to the real debate, where the most voluble contenders were Anderson, of East Knoxville’s 1st District, and Dan Murphy, of the West Knoxville 4th. Anderson started out complaining about what he saw as weaknesses in the school committee’s decision to affirm the textbook, but he soon moved into meatier territory. “I personally believe that there has to be some intelligence in the design of life,” he declared, “and no science teacher would ever be able to convince me different than that. It didn’t just happen in Walden’s Pond.” He suggested sending the textbook back to the school committee or to Central Office for further review.

Anderson’s views were quickly seconded by Bratton, and Buttry went even further. “I think it is offensive,” she said of the book’s contrast of evolution and creationism. “I take exception to the fact that it’s not presented as theory, it doesn’t state that it’s theory, it presents it almost as, well, a fact. ‘This is the way it is.’”

Buttry then offered a substitute motion: “That we not uphold the recommendation of the review committee, and that the book be banned from Knox County schools.”

After reading about Prof. Charles Voss, I Googled “Origins Resource Association” and discovered their website — a motherlode of crazy.

Includes this wonderful link:

Web page of Dr. Don Patton, frequent speaker at ORA seminars

Contains fascinating photos of dinosaur images made ca. 500 B.C., long before dinosaurs were known to science and yet remarkably accurate in their details. The conclusion: humans lived alongside dinosaurs.

Meet the Flintstones. These are the people who want to control what’s taught in Tennessee science classes.

Jump to bottom

433 comments

1 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:44:47pm

These people belong with the dinosaurs.

2 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:44:51pm

Gretchen and her co-host are like a dynamic duo of dumb-fuckery. I can't believe anyone could take their show seriously.

Bleh.

3 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:44:52pm

The vid won't show for me.

4 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:46:40pm
ORA began in 1980 under the name Louisiana Citizens for Academic Freedom in Origins, or LCAFO. (You can see why we changed to a shorter name!) The organization was founded to furnish material and expertise to the state of Louisiana in support of the "Balanced Treatment Act." This Act contained two main provisions: (1) Evolution could be presented in Louisiana public schools as theory but not proven scientific fact; and (2) Public school students should also be exposed to whatever evidence favored creation.

While the U.S. Supreme Court ultimately struck down the Act on technical grounds (click the "Legal Issues" link above for details), we have continued to pursue our mission of furnishing quality educational resources and services. These include lectures, seminars, workshops, Sunday school classes, and Bible college classes on the creation/ evolution controversy both locally, across the nation, and overseas in countries such as Peru, Haiti, India, China, Turkey, Honduras, South Africa, Uganda, Zambia, Kenya, Singapore, Malaysia, and Cambodia.

Good grief!

If anyone wants to know why these "teach the controversy" initiatives in states are so incredibly dangerous, here it is in black and white. These laws are sponsored and supported by organizations dedicated to providing their own "appropriate" educational materials, and the "teach the controversy" initiatives give them the way into the schools.

This group is trying to export their craziness to other countries across the globe.

Heaven help us.

5 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:47:16pm

re: #1 darthstar

These people belong with the dinosaurs.

You haven't heard the best part yet. Professor Voss and Mr. Zimmermann are both to be honored by the teabaggers on April 15th. They will each be awarded the Order of the Silver Crocoduck for their valiant efforts to fight the liberal conspiracy called "science".

6 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:47:52pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

The vid won't show for me.

Well it's nice to know that some people's machines have developed a benevolent sort of AI....

7 keithgabryelski  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:48:52pm

His argument is certainly with a book, but it isn't with THIS biology textbook -- it's with the dictionary and definition of 'myth'.

It's must be hell to lose an argument with an inanimate object.

8 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:49:47pm

Would it be less biased against Christianity if they call all the rest of the creation myths "myths" also?

9 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:50:20pm

re: #7 keithgabryelski

I lose to my toaster daily. If I push the button to pop it up early-- barely cooked toast. If I wait for it to finish -- utter charred carbon.

Yes, it does suck. And at least i'm not basing my worldview on it.

10 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:50:20pm

re: #7 keithgabryelski

His argument is certainly with a book, but it isn't with THIS biology textbook -- it's with the dictionary and definition of 'myth'.

It's must be hell to lose an argument with an inanimate object.

Speaking of inanimate objects...what does John McCain have to say on this subject?

11 tnguitarist  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:50:58pm

Oy.
/facepalm

12 brennant  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:51:52pm

Are we entering a new dark age? What the hell is going on?

13 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:52:34pm

re: #9 Obdicut

I lose to my toaster daily. If I push the button to pop it up early-- barely cooked toast. If I wait for it to finish -- utter charred carbon.

Yes, it does suck. And at least i'm not basing my worldview on it.

Buy a new toaster.

14 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:53:08pm

re: #8 wrenchwench

Would it be less biased against Christianity if they call all the rest of the creation myths "myths" also?

To paraphrase George Costanza:

"It's not a myth if you believe it".

15 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:53:28pm

re: #9 Obdicut

I lose to my toaster daily. If I push the button to pop it up early-- barely cooked toast. If I wait for it to finish -- utter charred carbon.

Yes, it does suck. And at least i'm not basing my worldview on it.

I like charred carbon.
I'll take your burned toast.

16 Summer Seale  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:53:32pm

I'm betting Gretchen was IMAPCTED by the audacity of such a statement, right on camera.

17 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:54:04pm

This is the Google ad I got for this page.

18 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:54:23pm

re: #10 darthstar

Speaking of inanimate objects...what does John McCain have to say on this subject?

Why do you have to serve up insults like that?

19 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:54:56pm

ahh, fond memories of the crazy woman in my 300-level lit class about mythology who blew her top when the unit on the bible started and it wasn't taught as the "truth".

20 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:55:53pm

Nuke Books!

21 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:55:54pm

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

Why do you have to serve up insults like that?

I was just being lazy...alternating between golf and baseball.

22 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:56:00pm

re: #17 wrenchwench

This is the Google ad I got for this page.

LOL.
Did you see this one?

*hitting my head against a wall*

23 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:56:21pm

re: #16 Summer

I'm betting Gretchen was IMAPCTED by the audacity of such a statement, right on camera.

BTW, Sarah Palin was on Wasilla's school board, if that helps you with any material.

24 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:57:14pm

re: #22 reine.de.tout

LOL.
Did you see this one?

*hitting my head against a wall*

The text even says:
Because we know the Bible proves the Flintstones was a documentary.
Holy cow!

25 cliffster  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:58:08pm

Charles - Tennessee speling heads-up. First instance lacks an ending e.

26 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:58:09pm

re: #22 reine.de.tout

LOL.
Did you see this one?

*hitting my head against a wall*

It's intended to mock the creatists, and it does a great job of so doing.

27 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:58:14pm

re: #22 reine.de.tout

LOL.
Did you see this one?

*hitting my head against a wall*

These tshirts are awesome! I want the one with flying saucers building the pyramids :D

28 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:58:24pm

re: #24 reine.de.tout

The text even says:
Because we know the Bible proves the Flintstones was a documentary.
Holy cow!

Dinosaurs are not mention in the Bible, anywhere.

29 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:58:38pm

re: #26 Dark_Falcon

It's intended to mock the creatists, and it does a great job of so doing.

hahaha [Link: controversy.wearscience.com...] The moon landing soundstage!

30 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:58:44pm
31 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:58:48pm

re: #25 cliffster

Charles - Tennessee spelling heads-up. First instance lacks an ending e.

PIYF

32 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:58:50pm

re: #28 Alouette

Dinosaurs are not mentioned in the Bible, anywhere.


PIMF

33 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:59:07pm

re: #24 reine.de.tout

The text even says:
Because we know the Bible proves the Flintstones was a documentary.
Holy cow!

Google is my friend who helps me understand some of them. I just learned about Russell's Teapot.

34 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 2:59:44pm

re: #26 Dark_Falcon

It's intended to mock the creatists, and it does a great job of so doing.

Thank goodness it's a mockery!
That occurred to me right after I posted the text on that one.
My head was gonna explode if they were for real.

35 cliffster  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:00:12pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

PIYF

C'mon, man, you know that was my poor attempt at friday humor

36 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:00:28pm

re: #8 wrenchwench

Would it be less biased against Christianity if they call all the rest of the creation myths "myths" also?

Also, you ever wonder why "Happy Holidays" is a big weapon in the war against x-mas, and an assault on Christianity, but there is never any mention of it being a weapon in the war on Hanuka, and an assault on Judaism? Or any other seasonal holidays held sacred by religions other than Christianity?

I'll bet there's a reason for that.

37 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:00:34pm

Yes it hurts their feelings when you talk the truth.

The essence of the religious right has always been a massive inferiority and persecution complex.

So say it more strongly.

If you take the creation story literally, you are not only turning it into just a myth, but you are rejecting all evidence in the hopes of ego preservation.
You are not only removing the possibility of the real truth in the bible being looked at my good folks who are now turned off by your stupidity, but you are presuming to speak for G-d Himself and doing a very poor job of it.

If you believe in G-d and you believe that He did create the universe, than an investigation of how he put it together is nothing more than a revelation of His will.

Fundies like that are not just presuming to destroy science, but they are denying the will of G-d in the misuse of the name of G-d. And they are doing a very good job of making anyone who is sensible and does believe look stupid by association.

There is, ironically enough, an entire commandment about not misusing G-d's name. Perhaps they should read that.

38 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:02:14pm

re: #37 LudwigVanQuixote
PIMF

Yes it hurts their feelings when you talk the truth.

The essence of the religious right has always been a massive inferiority and persecution complex.

So say it more strongly.

If you take the creation story literally, you are not only turning it into just a myth, but you are rejecting all evidence in the hopes of ego preservation.
You are not only removing the possibility of the real truth in the bible being looked at many good folks who are now turned off by your stupidity, but you are presuming to speak for G-d Himself and doing a very poor job of it.

If you believe in G-d and you believe that He did create the universe, than an investigation of how he put it together is nothing more than a revelation of His will.

Fundies like that are not just presuming to destroy science, but they are denying the will of G-d in the misuse of the name of G-d. And they are doing a very good job of making anyone who is sensible and does believe look stupid by association.

There is, ironically enough, an entire commandment about not misusing G-d's name. Perhaps they should read that.

39 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:04:23pm

re: #38 LudwigVanQuixote

I think "my" was supposed to be "by" (since you're PIMFing the whole post.)

40 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:05:36pm

re: #33 wrenchwench

You gotta love the logic:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time

41 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:07:32pm

re: #37 LudwigVanQuixote

I'd say that they seem to be heavily motivated by paranoia. Their refusal to concede anything seems all about avoiding the loss of cultural and political power.

42 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:10:19pm

Holy crap, it is Friday...Stupid time machine...

43 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:11:17pm

OT: Just spotted this, currently watching it

The Standard-Nate Phelps

This is an exclusive interview conducted by The Standard's Peter Klein with Nate Phelps, the estranged son of controversial gay-hating preacher Rev. Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church. It was aired in April 2010 across Canada on VisionTV and regionally on Joytv. It has been posted by Jonathan Roth, senior producer of The Standard.

44 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:12:09pm

Creationism is not a myth, Charles. It is, alas, a living, breathing, contemporary political movement that's quite popular with teh stoopid among us.

The Story of Creation is what's a myth. I get to say that and still be a good Catholic.

It's sorta like the difference between Islamism and Islam, if you think about it. ;^)

45 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:12:22pm

re: #33 wrenchwench

Google is my friend who helps me understand some of them. I just learned about Russell's Teapot.

And that is exactly why these people are such an enemy to the very faith they believe they are defending.

By making foolish statements and caterwauling like idiots, they remove the chance for reasonable discussion about the value of believing in that teapot, or the reasons that intelligent people might believe in that teapot.

Any such discussion gets obliterated in the braying noise of these jackasses.

Faith itself is not the enemy.

Belief in things which can not be directly observed or subject to the strict scientific method is not the enemy.

At the end of the day, strict logical positivism is just as much a chosen world view as faith. Not everything of value can be directly measured. Things like love and compassion do not register on any scientific instrument.

Yet they are real things. They are things that make us worthy as humans.

But worth and morality also do not register on any scientific instrument.

The enemy is when stupid people, like these asses on Fox, co-opt faith for their own advantage as a means to oppress the conscience, learning and thinking of others.

46 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:12:40pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

I'd say that they seem to be heavily motivated by paranoia. Their refusal to concede anything seems all about avoiding the loss of cultural and political power.

That is it on the nose.

47 Kilroy01  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:13:15pm

re: #29 WindUpBird

Well that one is true.. :)

48 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:14:31pm

re: #44 Cato the Elder

What's really stupid about creationism is that the creationists have become more adamant in their dismissal of science in the last year or two than they've been in decades. It's as if they think this is a valid political argument.

49 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:15:25pm

re: #45 LudwigVanQuixote

Damn, LVQ, you're on a roll.
Good one.

51 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:16:06pm

re: #48 darthstar

What's really stupid about creationism is that the creationists have become more adamant in their dismissal of science in the last year or two than they've been in decades. It's as if they think this is a valid political argument.

In a theocracy, blind faith is politics.

52 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:16:15pm

re: #49 reine.de.tout

Damn, LVQ, you're on a roll.
Good one.

Thank you.

53 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:16:19pm

re: #48 darthstar

I think they know that they're losing the new generation.

54 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:21:17pm

re: #53 Obdicut

Of course, which is why they are scrambling like mad to insert their propaganda into public schools. It's not enough to indoctrinate their own children, they must have the power to indoctrinate everyone's children as well.

55 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:21:18pm

re: #50 Kilroy01

I almost cried when I watched this. Kids are being taught this stuff..

It is false internally from the start as well.

To be an actual, literal day, you need the sun. An actual literal day is defined by the sun.

The sun was not created on the first day.

Therefore, the Bible itself does not say these were literal days. This is inescapable for anyone who can read for themselves. However fundies have never been interested in reading for themselves and thinking through the implications of what they just read.

56 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:22:20pm

re: #50 Kilroy01

I love this comment, though:

captainbloodycranky : Bears eat fish and other small animals as well as plants, you fucking imbecile creationist weirdos. They're omnivores, just like us - and they have much the same teeth as us, only in greater quantity. I would go on, but I'm too bloody annoyed by this child-friendly stupidity to form coherent sentences.

57 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:23:55pm

re: #53 Obdicut

I think they know that they're losing the new generation.

When they think they're losing, some people just decide to go all out and try to write their beliefs into law. It does not work as well as they think. If such people really wanted to protect Christianity, they'd stop worrying about creationism and mount a honest defense of Christian values. But part of the problem is that they've lost sight of those values in their paranoia. So the best that can be hoped for now would be for some of those people to take an honest look around and think about what is a threat and what is not. Evolution is not a threat to a moral and well-run society, but out-of-wedlock births is (at least in some ways).

58 Kilroy01  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:24:36pm

re: #56 Obdicut

Yes, and Great White Sharks where vegetarians before Eve ate the apple. Yes, those teeth scream plant eater.. Not sure what parasites did before Eve got the munchies either.

59 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:24:39pm

re: #54 Slumbering Behemoth

Of course, which is why they are scrambling like mad to insert their propaganda into public schools. It's not enough to indoctrinate their own children, they must have the power to indoctrinate everyone's children as well.

And those "teach the controversy" initiatives in states are part of that mad scramble, a way for these folks to sell the materials they've had ready for YEARS already. Which is how they plan to get rich off of this stuff, there's lots of money to be had in providing school teaching materials. Follow the money with these guys . . .

60 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:24:59pm

re: #36 Slumbering Behemoth

Also, you ever wonder why "Happy Holidays" is a big weapon in the war against x-mas, and an assault on Christianity, but there is never any mention of it being a weapon in the war on Hanuka, and an assault on Judaism? Or any other seasonal holidays held sacred by religions other than Christianity?

I'll bet there's a reason for that.

Who were the only people to actually make a law banning Christmas?

Yes, it was the fundamentalists.

61 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:25:20pm

re: #58 Kilroy01

I want a creationist to explain mitochondria. I think it might make my brain melt, though.

62 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:27:22pm

re: #56 Obdicut

Dinosaurs had sharp teeth to cut through vegetation because they were designed to be vegetarians...Oh, my brain hurts.

63 bosforus  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:28:00pm

Are there any screenshots or anything of the quote from this text book?

64 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:28:05pm

re: #36 Slumbering Behemoth

Also, you ever wonder why "Happy Holidays" is a big weapon in the war against x-mas, and an assault on Christianity, but there is never any mention of it being a weapon in the war on Hanuka, and an assault on Judaism? Or any other seasonal holidays held sacred by religions other than Christianity?

I'll bet there's a reason for that.

I've not been bothered by the "Happy Holidays" business.

Christmas is what I celebrate with my family and at Church, not total strangers.

With strangers, it's simply the good wishes of the general holiday season. Happy Holidays seems perfectly OK to me.

65 SilentAlfa  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:28:35pm

It's ironic that the people most likely to say that America is dying and losing its core principals are evangelical Christian conservatives--the very people who are destroying America's longstanding principals by bringing religion into government.

66 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:29:01pm

re: #60 Alouette

Pfft! Atheist propaganda.
/

67 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:29:06pm

re: #61 Obdicut

I want a creationist to explain mitochondria. I think it might make my brain melt, though.

Fuck mitochondria. I want to hear them explain midichlorians.

68 Mocking Jay  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:29:59pm

re: #62 darthstar

Dinosaurs had sharp teeth to cut through vegetation because they were designed to be vegetarians...Oh, my brain hurts.


It's... it's so full of dumb... do these people have no understanding of... anything?

69 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:30:05pm

re: #67 Cato the Elder

Fuck mitochondria. I want to hear them explain midichlorians.

Preach it, brother!

70 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:30:30pm

Well, in their defense, I will say that creationists are a good argument against evolution, as they haven't begun to evolve.

71 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:30:31pm

re: #61 Obdicut

I want a creationist to explain mitochondria. I think it might make my brain melt, though.

They were created in situ on the thrid day...

GARRRGH

72 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:31:03pm

re: #67 Cato the Elder

Fuck mitochondria. I want to hear them explain midichlorians.

Careful, Cato. Varek's around and if he thinks you're Jedi, he's going to go Dark Side powers on you.


//

73 Mocking Jay  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:31:11pm

re: #67 Cato the Elder

Fuck mitochondria. I want to hear them explain midichlorians.

God created midichlorians to test the Jedi's faith.

74 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:32:29pm

re: #73 JasonA

God created midichlorians to test the Jedi's faith.

Seriously what the hell was wrong with the "energy field" angle? Lucas, bah!

75 Kilroy01  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:33:09pm

re: #73 JasonA

They had a test for midichlorians.. No faith required.

76 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:34:20pm

re: #74 Varek Raith

Seriously what the hell was wrong with the "energy field" angle? Lucas, bah!

Remember, that was just a theory from one Jedi. It's not necessarily the view of the Jedi council. Have you seen the latest poll numbers from 538 on it? The organic theory of the force only has minimal support, and that's only because of sympathy for master Qui-gon after his death.

77 Mocking Jay  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:34:26pm

re: #75 Kilroy01

They had a test for midichlorians.. No faith required.

Just like we have carbon dating!!11!

78 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:35:17pm

re: #76 Obdicut

Remember, that was just a theory from one Jedi. It's not necessarily the view of the Jedi council. Have you seen the latest poll numbers from 538 on it? The organic theory of the force only has minimal support, and that's only because of sympathy for master Qui-gon after his death.

I like your reasoning.

79 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:35:45pm

re: #64 reine.de.tout

From a marketing perspective, (and that's what all the phony complaining is focused on, advertisements) "Happy Holidays" is inclusive to all groups regardless of faith.

If I were selling a product, I would want to reach the widest demographic possible, and would do so in a way that does not alienate potential customers. That's all that this is about, despite certain demagogues who insist that it is part of a war on their specific faith.

80 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:35:53pm

Notice how the "concerned parent", Brian Zimmerman, has to be led by the hand by Gretchen to even get around to stating his problem with this book.

He later says "I'm not smart enough to pick that stuff up", a true self-assessment if I've ever heard one.

This whole thing is a setup by the Institute for Higher Stupidity in America.

81 Kilroy01  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:36:31pm

re: #77 JasonA

Oh no, I'm going to have to rethink my place in the (Star Wars) Universe.

82 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:37:03pm

re: #78 Varek Raith

I like your reasoning.

You're a Sith. Of course you want to foster dissension in the Jedi Council; All the better to kill them and install yourself in their place.

/Stay on Target!

83 Mocking Jay  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:37:54pm

Here's a fun Phantom Menace review for anyone interested:
Probably nsfw

84 Irenicum  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:39:11pm

And for the viewing pleasure of our YEC friends, meet the Flintstones. I'm sure they'll love every bit of this as pure history...except for that last part of having a gay old time. They won't like that part.

85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:40:29pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

EXCLUSIVE: Early evidence of Varek's "divine" birth, here.

86 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:40:46pm

re: #76 Obdicut

Remember, that was just a theory from one Jedi. It's not necessarily the view of the Jedi council. Have you seen the latest poll numbers from 538 on it? The organic theory of the force only has minimal support, and that's only because of sympathy for master Qui-gon after his death.

Well...he did figure out how to keep it together once he passed away...you gotta give him credit for that.

But yeah, the whole "follow the living force" thing...Uhh - Master - what if the Living Force wants me to lose an arm??

87 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:40:57pm

Okay...I searched the youtubes and found evidence that humans and dinosaurs not only lived together, but partied together...

88 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:41:21pm

re: #71 LudwigVanQuixote

They were created in situ on the thrid day...

GARRRGH

Hey, dude. Haven't bumped into you in a while. Good holiday with those you love?

89 Lidane  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:41:51pm

Bill Donohue continues his asshole ways, and is still in complete denial:

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

Bascially, the scandal the Church is facing isn't widening at all because the abuse cases that are coming to light happened a long time ago.

Unbelievable.

90 Kilroy01  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:43:41pm

I'm not even going to try and set this up.
Edward Current's new video on Evolution

91 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:45:26pm

re: #88 Aceofwhat?

Hey, dude. Haven't bumped into you in a while. Good holiday with those you love?

Yes thank you!

92 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:45:31pm

re: #89 Lidane

Bill Donohue continues his asshole ways, and is still in complete denial:

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

Bascially, the scandal the Church is facing isn't widening at all because the abuse cases that are coming to light happened a long time ago.

Unbelievable.

Donohue is an idiot, a complete ass, a total loss as a credible spokesperson, and will never "get it".

93 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:45:31pm

re: #90 Kilroy01

I'm not even going to try and set this up.
Edward Current's new video on Evolution

Link didn't work.

94 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:46:27pm

Here's the direct link to the Alley Oop page ...
[Link: www.bible.ca...]

95 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:46:33pm

re: #64 reine.de.tout

I've not been bothered by the "Happy Holidays" business.

Christmas is what I celebrate with my family and at Church, not total strangers.

With strangers, it's simply the good wishes of the general holiday season. Happy Holidays seems perfectly OK to me.

That would be because you actually value Christmas and are not falsely pious.

96 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:47:10pm

re: #95 LudwigVanQuixote

That would be because you actually value Christmas and are not falsely pious.

I try.
:-)

97 Irenicum  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:47:43pm

re: #45 LudwigVanQuixote

Ludwig, I would give you all my karma for what you just wrote!

98 Kilroy01  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:49:24pm

re: #93 Dark_Falcon

Hate when that happens.
Evolution

99 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:51:16pm

re: #97 Irenicum

Ludwig, I would give you all my karma for what you just wrote!

Thank you!

100 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:52:41pm

Cato, are you here?

Our unpaid non-lizard cookbook assistant is ready to finish up the book, by this afternoon if possible.

Do you have anything written, or shall we just use what you sent earlier (which I liked just fine)?

101 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:52:51pm

I'm aghast at what some in my party are up to. Truly. I think this bothers me more than AGW denial. The age of the earth is a much easier question to answer...how is my party going to contribute to the progress of our country if we're busy doing anything but telling these people to go soak themselves?

Sigh.

102 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:54:42pm

It's too bad you can't use stupidity to power electrical grids or directly reduce CO2 or methane emissions, or something.

The concentrated stupidity that Charles has pointed out and mocked just in the last three days would be enough to save the planet and found the beginnings of a Galactic Empire, all in one go.

103 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:56:08pm

re: #97 Irenicum

Ludwig, I would give you all my karma for what you just wrote!

Close your eyes and I'll kiss you
Tomorrow I'll miss you
Remember I'll always be true

And then while I'm away
I'll write home every day
And I'll send all my Karma to you

I'll pretend that I'm kissing
The lips I am missing
And Karma that my dreams will come true

And then while I'm away
I'll write home every day
And I'll send all my Karma to you

All my Karma, I will send to you
All my Karma, darling I'll be true

Close your eyes and I'll kiss you
Tomorrow I'll miss you
Remember I'll always be true

And then while I'm away
I'll write home every day
And I'll send all my Karma to you

All my Karma, I will send to you
All my karma, darling I'll be true
All my Karma, all my Karma
Ooh, all my Karma, I will send to you

104 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:56:53pm

re: #100 reine.de.tout

Cato, are you here?

Our unpaid non-lizard cookbook assistant is ready to finish up the book, by this afternoon if possible.

Do you have anything written, or shall we just use what you sent earlier (which I liked just fine)?

See my FB mail to you.

105 Irenicum  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:57:24pm

Well, I'm off to hear some hipster dipster folk singers in Marblehead. It should be good hippie fun!

And HH, that is classic! LOL!

106 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:57:37pm

re: #98 Kilroy01

Hate when that happens.
Evolution

God gave us shovels, then made it so that the deeper we dug, the more our faith would be tested.

Hilarious.

107 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:57:54pm

re: #104 Cato the Elder

See my FB mail to you.

Nothing there.
Yet.

108 Irenicum  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:58:06pm

See y'all later. And don't feed the YEC's, they bite.

109 freetoken  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:58:36pm

re: #1 darthstar

These people belong with the dinosaurs.

110 Gus  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:59:14pm

From the department of "you just can't makes this stuff" up. Between Fox News, Sarah Palin, and Michelle Bachmann today I believe America now has a 24 hour clown show.

111 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:59:15pm

I wish to submit the best thing I ever saw to completely sum up the far right, evolution, ant-science, and the exploitation of faith in order to create a horror that is the opposite of what that faith stands for.

Woo..
I'm ahead, I'm a man
I'm the first mammal to wear pants, yeah
I'm at peace with my lust
I can kill 'cause in God I trust, yeah
It's evolution, baby

I'm at peace, I'm the man
Buying stocks on the day of the crash
On the loose, I'm a truck
All the rolling hills, I'll flatten 'em out, yeah
It's herd behavior, uh huh
It's evolution, baby

Admire me, admire my home
Admire my son, he's my clone
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
This land is mine, this land is free
I'll do what I want but irresponsibly
It's evolution, baby

I'm a thief, I'm a liar
There's my church, I sing in the choir:
(hallelujah, hallelujah)

Admire me, admire my home
Admire my son, admire my clones
'Cause we know, appetite for a nightly feast
Those ignorant Indians got nothin' on me
Nothin', why?
Because... it's evolution, baby!

I am ahead, I am advanced
I am the first mammal to make plans, yeah
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher
2010, watch it go to fire
It's evolution, baby
Do the evolution
Come on, come on, come on

I love the video too. It answers so much that the historical revisionists would like to deny.

112 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 3:59:24pm

re: #103 HoosierHoops

You want Karma?

You got it!

113 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:01:45pm

re: #107 reine.de.tout

Nothing there.
Yet.

That's because I just wrote it.

114 Kilroy01  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:01:59pm

re: #106 darthstar

God gave us shovels, then made it so that the deeper we dug, the more our faith would be tested.

Hilarious.


Some people don't know it is satire. That makes it even funnier.

115 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:02:58pm

re: #113 Cato the Elder

That's because I just wrote it.

*snicker* at me.
reply sent via regular e-mail, not sure how to send a photo attachment via FB

116 LotharBot  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:04:00pm

On the one hand, creationism is nuts and wrong.

On the other hand, is it really appropriate for a school textbook to specifically address the Bible, by name, using emotionally-loaded language? (Yes, I know, "myth" is the technically correct term, but it's not a "neutral" term.) IMO, by doing so, they've empowered the nutjobs to say "see, it's a religious war!"

Teach evolution. Teach it well. If you address creationism, it should only be to say that specific creationist theories (young earth; special creation of individual species) are not supported by the evidence. If your Biology textbook is making explicit references to the Bible (or other religious books, for that matter), you've made an error in judgment.

There are fantastic biology textbooks out there that address the topic of creationism in much better ways.

117 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:04:08pm

re: #115 reine.de.tout

*snicker* at me.
reply sent via regular e-mail, not sure how to send a photo attachment via FB

OK, got it. Back at you later.

118 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:06:12pm

re: #116 LotharBot

yeah, a few of us agreed on this yesterday, i think. on one hand, there's no reason for the textbook to take an apparent jab like that.

on the other hand:

Dear Fellow Christians...please grow up, knock it off, and by the way they were probably just trying to give your stupid 'theory' a nod, which you incessantly asked for in the first place.

Love,

Ace

120 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:08:37pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The idea is catching on...
Boortz: If Obama is hurting your business and you need to lay off a worker, "why not lay off an Obama voter?"

Such an evil, divisive thing to put in people's heads. Fucking hell.

I have never and would never inquire as to who votes for whom, and I am uncomfortable whenever anyone reveals it to me in the workplace anyway.

121 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:08:58pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The idea is catching on...
Boortz: If Obama is hurting your business and you need to lay off a worker, "why not lay off an Obama voter?"

What an absolutely terrible thing to say. No wonder some people think all republicans are evil. sheesh.

122 keloyd  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:09:15pm

I know this is two topics behind, but I just now started goofing off today - Newsweek has covered some pretty good evidence that every other institution and the general public is at least as bad as the Catholic Church. It is helpful to be able to rule out the whole celibate-male-hierarchy thing as being part of the problem. What remains is predatory management, predatory legal maneuverings, and a pathological level of CYA. The data show their perverts are no different than secular or other religious perverts.

They cite a big study as well as the insurance industry, which gathers data more thoroughly when money is involved. It turns out Catholic liability insurance for paying off victims is no more expensive than otherwise similar non-Catholic schools.

123 ryannon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:09:38pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The idea is catching on...
Boortz: If Obama is hurting your business and you need to lay off a worker, "why not lay off an Obama voter?"

When they came to lay off the Obama voter, I said nothing....

124 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:11:06pm

re: #122 keloyd

I was really, really concerned about Catholic liability insurance.

What the hell is your actual point?

125 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:11:47pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The idea is catching on...
Boortz: If Obama is hurting your business and you need to lay off a worker, "why not lay off an Obama voter?"

Lovely comments, too.

So anyone who voted for Obama shouldn't be able to work in America?
Eliminate the social safty nets and watch them go to their various painful deaths.
There are various horrible futures that this type of vision can lead too.
126 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:11:51pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The idea is catching on...
Boortz: If Obama is hurting your business and you need to lay off a worker, "why not lay off an Obama voter?"

"Go ahead, sow seeds of hate, turn co-workers against each other! What's the worst that could happen?"

127 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:12:22pm

re: #120 Obdicut

Such an evil, divisive thing to put in people's heads. Fucking hell.

I have never and would never inquire as to who votes for whom, and I am uncomfortable whenever anyone reveals it to me in the workplace anyway.

Things like this make me very happy that as a state employee, I was prohibited from engaging in political activity. People who would use a person's political convictions to harm them are just absolutely so wrong it's unbelievable anyone entertains the idea.

128 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:12:46pm

re: #121 Aceofwhat?

What an absolutely terrible thing to say. No wonder some people think all republicans are evil. sheesh.

It's also really bad business. A fired employee make quite a stink. Obama won with 53% of the vote. Imagine alienating 53% of your customers. It could ruin a business.

129 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:12:47pm

re: #116 LotharBot

I would like to see more of the book. It seems that in the instance they show in the video, it's part of a glossary or some thing similar. And I do believe children should know the difference between creationism and evolutionary science since they're getting a lot of creationist talk swirling around them.

I look at Myth in a lot of ways as the same as Faith. Look at the definition up top. An atheist would call what I believe spiritually as myth. I call it Faith. So what. What do I care? Well some people care a great deal obviously.

130 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:12:57pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

EXCLUSIVE: Early evidence of Varek's "divine" birth, here.

Rofl.
XD

131 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:13:21pm

re: #127 reine.de.tout

Things like this make me very happy that as a state employee, I was prohibited from engaging in political activity. People who would use a person's political convictions to harm them are just absolutely so wrong it's unbelievable anyone entertains the idea.

It's like using their religion against them.

132 freetoken  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:13:52pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The deep anger, hatred, and fear which the election of Obama has brought to the surface will, in the end, I hope, be revealing enough, to enough people in this country, that in the end we will be much better for it.

This does fit into an evolution/creationism thread. The ideological power that Charles Darwin's idea (yeah, I know, it wasn't his exclusively), evolution, has in confronting the religious teachings around the world is not to be underestimated.

It is not a coincidence that the orgy of Southern Republicans going on currently in NOLA happens also to be dominated by a group of religious creationists.

133 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:14:11pm

re: #48 darthstar

It has to do with the generation that is now coming into power. What is happening is that those taught through the fundamentalist / evangelical homeschooling movement, where this pseudo-science was taught during the late 70's and 80's is coming to the point in their lives where they are married and having kids, and these kids are starting to get into the grades where SCIENCE is taught. They want their kids to go to the public schools, which offer more opportunity, and such fundamentalist / evangelicals coming from very active (but intensely cut off) family / community environments are naturally becoming active in their school communities and pushing for "change".

re: #44 Cato the Elder


The Story of Creation is what's a myth. I get to say that and still be a good Catholic.

Depends on what means by "myth" there. Myths can be true, and the Church requires at least that the creation account Genesis be regarded as a true myth. Problem with Fundamentalists is that they take scripture literally in every case and instance. It is sort of sad because they really miss out on the larger picture.

What is required and important for the creation account is the following:

1. God created everything from nothing.
2. Creation is ordered, not chaotic, governed, and knowable.
3. All creation has its beginning in God and its end in God (thus observing and knowing creation is a revelation of who God is).
4. Man is an image of God.
5. Man was created to participate in God's work, and to order creation in worship of God (if one doesn't know their ancient mythologies one misses that Genesis depicts Eden as a temple)
6. Mankind originates from two parents.
7. Man rejected being in fellowship with God and chose instead be his own god, resulting in the fall from grace.
8. Man was no longer fit to work in the garden (temple) so he was kicked out until that time would come when the Son of Man would restore mankind to God and proper worship.

--

It is sort of important to remember when studying scripture that it is written by people. There are truths in scripture that exceed people's ability to comprehend them so when it comes to things being written down, what is used is the best possible words that they can come up with.

Fundamentalists / Evangelicals have no conception of this at all.

134 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:14:13pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The idea is catching on...
Boortz: If Obama is hurting your business and you need to lay off a worker, "why not lay off an Obama voter?"

Because using economic privledge to coerce employees is the best way to promote free democracy?

This is the most appallingly anti-American thing I have seen the wingnuts ever write.

Yeah... if you hate democracy, vote for the new, rino free GOP!

135 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:14:22pm

re: #127 reine.de.tout

The lady in the office who does contracts is a seventh-day adventist who votes (I only know because she tells me) for totally nutjob candidates. She's still a wonderful person. I wouldn't want the people she votes for to be elected. It has nothing to do with her being a sweetie, a wonderful coworker, and a very nice person.

There are enough things that divide us in this world without creating more.

136 Gus  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:14:58pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The idea is catching on...
Boortz: If Obama is hurting your business and you need to lay off a worker, "why not lay off an Obama voter?"

Now there's an example of fascism if I ever saw one.

137 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:15:35pm

re: #133 Liet_Kynes

There are truths in scripture that exceed people's ability to comprehend them so when it comes to things being written down, what is used is the best possible words that they can come up with.

Try to remember that atheists actually exist, as do other people who do not take it on faith that there are any truths in scripture beyond what the words actually say.

138 keloyd  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:16:24pm

re: #124 Obdicut

My point is defining the problem and avoiding strawmen (and I'm not Catholic, so it's not personal.) Is it celibate males with consequences of their lifestyle? or a culture that attracts men who don't have their minds right? or is it how the people in charge handle a problem common to institutions that deal with children?

Newsweek found two groups who figured it out with data and not just more pundits chattering. Clearly, I'm not concerned with the Catholics having to pay more insurance. The point is the insurance industry can measure risk exceedingly well. If they don't find more risk, that's noteworthy.

139 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:17:21pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

It's also really bad business. A fired employee make quite a stink. Obama won with 53% of the vote. Imagine alienating 53% of your customers. It could ruin a business.

Absolutely. And half of your employees are going to start looking for another job. Guess who will find another job in this economy? Your best employees.

It's idiotic AND unethical. Whoopieee!

140 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:17:42pm

re: #122 keloyd

I know this is two topics behind, but I just now started goofing off today - Newsweek has covered some pretty good evidence that every other institution and the general public is at least as bad as the Catholic Church. It is helpful to be able to rule out the whole celibate-male-hierarchy thing as being part of the problem. What remains is predatory management, predatory legal maneuverings, and a pathological level of CYA. The data show their perverts are no different than secular or other religious perverts.

They cite a big study as well as the insurance industry, which gathers data more thoroughly when money is involved. It turns out Catholic liability insurance for paying off victims is no more expensive than otherwise similar non-Catholic schools.

And - none of that matters, IMO.

Priests have access to children in a way that predators in other organizations do not, that is, they have pretty free access to children as a person of authority and as a person who children should be able to trust completely. When parents teach their kids to not talk to strangers they make exceptions for law enforcement and the clergy, don't they?

This makes their use of their special position particularly heinous, in my mind.

Then there's the whole cover-up business. Completely perplexing to me. The hierarchy - not necessarily parish priests or bishops but those in Rome - seem to have forgotten that these children and their families are just as much a part of the "universal church" as the perpetrators, and more deserving of protection than those who violate them.

Just my .02

141 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:17:50pm

re: #138 keloyd

Again, I still have no clue what your point is.

You understand the problem with what has happened in the Catholic church is that their has been a policy of covering up for the abusers and continuing to allow them access to children even when it's obviously wrong to, right?

It is not about "What are the causes of pedophilia".

142 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:18:44pm

re: #131 Floral Giraffe

It's like using their religion against them.

Of course it is illegal discrimination.

I actually rather hope that some wingnut punks do that - they will then be sued and put out of business.

You know, not every business owner is a wingnut. Dem employers don't willy-nilly fire those who voted for Bush.

143 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:19:40pm

"Paulians Need Not Apply"

/Bad, Varek, bad...

144 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:20:18pm

re: #141 Obdicut

'Their' should have been 'there'; don't hit me, Cato.

145 freetoken  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:20:25pm

re: #138 keloyd

The important difference is that the Catholic Church holds themselves, and especially their leaders, up as moral authorities over the world.

Large corporations, institutions, etc. tend not to do that, at least to the same degree.

Few people on this planet, who would not qualify for some sort of DSM-IV diagnosis related to dementia, go around and say they sit in the seat reserved for God. Yet the claims of Papal infallibility do just that.

146 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:20:29pm

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote


I actually rather hope that some wingnut punks do that - they will then be sued and put out of business.

Sometimes ruthless capitalism does serve the common good;)

147 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:20:30pm

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course it is illegal discrimination.

I actually rather hope that some wingnut punks do that - they will then be sued and put out of business.

You know, not every business owner is a wingnut. Dem employers don't willy-nilly fire those who voted for Bush.

Oh, LVQ , really let's not hope someone actually does that.
The first person who gets hurt in that scenario is the employee.

148 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:21:14pm

re: #139 Aceofwhat?

Absolutely. And half of your employees are going to start looking for another job. Guess who will find another job in this economy? Your best employees.

It's idiotic AND unethical. Whoopieee!

Add in illegal (which it would be in my state) and you've got a Wingnut Trifecta.

149 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:21:29pm

re: #146 Aceofwhat?

whoops. went ahead and italicised the whole thing there. pimf.

150 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:22:13pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

Add in illegal (which it would be in my state) and you've got a Wingnut Trifecta.

of course, now i'm imagining Costanza in bed with a pastrami sandwich and a small radio...trifecta!

151 freetoken  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:22:56pm

On topic (heh):

Evolution, Big Bang Polls Omitted From NSF Report

In an unusual last-minute edit that has drawn flak from the White House and science educators, a federal advisory committee omitted data on Americans' knowledge of evolution and the big bang from a key report. The data shows that Americans are far less likely than the rest of the world to accept that humans evolved from earlier species and that the universe began with a big bang.

They're not surprising findings, but the National Science Board, which oversees the National Science Foundation (NSF), says it chose to leave the section out of the 2010 edition of the biennial Science and Engineering Indicators because the survey questions used to measure knowledge of the two topics force respondents to choose between factual knowledge and religious beliefs.

"Discussing American science literacy without mentioning evolution is intellectual malpractice" that "downplays the controversy" over teaching evolution in schools, says Joshua Rosenau of the National Center for Science Education, a nonprofit that has fought to keep creationism out of the science classroom. The story appears in this week's issue of Science.

152 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:24:32pm

re: #83 JasonA

Here's a fun Phantom Menace review for anyone interested:
Probably nsfw

You can have no possible clue how much of my ass I've laughed off watching these - and I'm only on Part 2!

Thank you. If humor could save the world, this would be a start.

153 keloyd  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:25:28pm

re: #141 Obdicut

There has been a lot of speculation whether the odd lifestyle of the priesthood adds to the incidence of this predatory behavior. That's a big part of the puzzle here. Do men with problematic psychology, or hangups about sex, or other issues - find a "sanctuary" in a generally respectable life as a celibate priest? Maybe. Does this mean the priesthood has more pedophiles/pederasts than in the male population generally? or at other schools? That's important. Newsweek addressed that with data, which I found interesting. It's not the whole deal, but it's a big piece.

154 freetoken  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:26:37pm

But wait... Didn't the wingnuts tell us that the Arkansas shooter must have been some sort of ally of Obama?


Murder accused wants 'death to Obama'


ABDULHAKIM Mujahid Muhammad, the suspect in the 2009 shooting outside a US army recuiting centre, has appeared in an Arkansas state court saying only "death to Obama, peace to Osama" as he exited the hearing, the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette reported.

Muhammad, a Muslim convert born Carlos Bledsoe, has confessed repeatedly to the June 2009 shootings that killed Private William Long, 23, and injured Private Quinton Ezeagwula, 18, outside an Army Recruiting Center in Little Rock.

Muhammad said the shootings were in retaliation for US policies in the Middle East.

Prosecutors announced yesterday that they will seek the death penalty for Muhammad.

Muhammad's attorney, Claiborne Ferguson, said he would not use an insanity defence for his client but instead would focus on keeping his client off of death row.

Mr Ferguson is still seeking additional state funding to cover the expense of investigators and specialists needed in Muhammad's defence.

155 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:26:57pm

OK time to talk Jesus freaks:

The important point is to listen to the testimony. Listen to what it took to get people who knew the truth in order to testify.

156 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:27:00pm

I love LGF and all of our great Lizards..
So..I'm going to a killer party Saturday night with a live band in Southern Indiana.. They invited me to play with them...I'm so going to have somebody record it and post it here..
It's really funny..If you are are guitarist growing up in Cali...There is a million people better than you on guitar..It's a fact...I love playing music.. If I had the real talent.. I swear to God all I would do my whole life is play guitar..And play music...It would be a dream.. I love music...But..Don't take this wrong..But Indiana doesn't have a huge talent in picking..I mean they have outstanding stars..But generally...I jammed at some party a year ago just messing around and it got me this invite Saturday...I dunno..I'm not shy and I can play...
I don't think I'm great..Cause if I did.. I would only play music every minute of every day...But Lord..I love to play guitar and sing..
I'm sending Charles a live song MP3 Monday Damnit!
I'm a lousy California Ham.. pssss.. They think I'm really good here...Don't tell the boys back home..LOL

157 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:27:53pm

re: #152 Cato the Elder

You can have no possible clue how much of my ass I've laughed off watching these - and I'm only on Part 2!

Thank you. If humor could save the world, this would be a start.

HAHAHAHAHA!
It's funny cause it's true!

158 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:27:58pm

re: #156 HoosierHoops

That sounds like fun!

159 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:28:00pm

re: #156 HoosierHoops

you gonna post that gem somewhere when you're finished or what???

160 What, me worry?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:29:40pm

re: #133 Liet_Kynes

For me, I'm not really arguing against the believers. I'm a believer (I thought love was only true in fairy tales....) I guess I'm called an old time creationist? I think evolution and genesis can be put together.

But none of that matters to this. The creationist movement began when the prayer movement finally died. Then they figured if they could get creationism into science class, they'd have it cinched. Except they have no peer reviewed journals. Why? Because no one can prove God.

This is for the clergy to sort out, not the schools.

161 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:30:40pm

re: #153 keloyd

That's a big part of the puzzle here.

What puzzle, dude? What are you talking about?

Again: The problem is that the Catholic church has shown a pattern of not only covering up abuse, but continuing to allow priests who have abused children to have access to children.

Data on sexual offenses, including pedophilia, are also incredibly hard to parse. They depend on reporting of incidences, and since we can see, for example, that the Catholic church has sometimes paid victims to not reveal the attacks, and since many predators use threats to silence their victims, you cannot draw any firm conclusions about the actual incidence of sexual abuse through indirect means.

162 keloyd  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:30:41pm

re: #140 reine.de.tout

I didn't think of that. When I was a kid, I always thought of my (Protestant) minister as just another teacher, the Jesus teacher instead of the math teacher. Let there be no misunderstanding - the Newsweek article had a useful take on some thorough data, but it's not my intention to mitigate this thing in any way, just cite an interesting article...and then go eat dinner.

163 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:30:56pm

re: #116 LotharBot

I am not entirely sure, but I think the deal here is that certain folks wanted creationism mentioned in a textbook alongside the theory of evolution, and ended up not liking what they got.

I could be wrong.

164 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:31:58pm

re: #154 freetoken

But wait... Didn't the wingnuts tell us that the Arkansas shooter must have been some sort of ally of Obama?

Murder accused wants 'death to Obama'

Just another Islamist terrorist then. Try him, convict him, and execute him.

165 Sigma_x  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:33:35pm

So is FOX News becoming, in essence, like, a tele-evangelist station? Between Beck, Huckabee, O'Reily (who's a pretty devout Catholic), and ol' Gretchen, I feel like I'm watching the fucking 700 Club.

They might even have to start soliciting donations, seeing as advertisers are fleeing in droves.

166 m0nkeyb0y  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:34:44pm

re: #45 LudwigVanQuixote

I concur wholeheartedly.

And I say this as an agnostic who was raised immersed in Southern Baptist churches.
I was turned off as a teenager by the inconsistencies and circular logic employed by my father in his attempt to bend me to his worldview.

I was inculcated with sufficient deference to his authority that I quickly learned to shut up, in response to forceful and literal commands to, and bide my time till graduation.

I then proceeded to matriculate to a college in a western state I had never been to.
To this day some 20+ years later we engage in weekly phone calls a 1000 miles distant where we only discuss the weather and grandkids.

So sad, but he is now too physically feeble for me to ever broach a political subject with him.

I think having an outlet for such discussions is why I lurked here the last two years before finally registering.
I am gunshy even at 44 years of age regarding these discussions, but fascinated nonetheless.

167 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:34:55pm

re: #165 Sigma_x

So is FOX News becoming, in essence, like, a tele-evangelist station? Between Beck, Huckabee, O'Reily (who's a pretty devout Catholic), and ol' Gretchen, I feel like I'm watching the fucking 700 Club.

They might even have to start soliciting donations, seeing as advertisers are fleeing in droves.

You are watching the 700 club. The two are quite indistinguishable.

168 freetoken  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:35:15pm

re: #165 Sigma_x

They might even have to start soliciting donations, seeing as advertisers are fleeing in droves.

Is there any evidence of this? I've been under the impression that the various boycotts are more symbolic, and not really hurting Murdoch's bottom line.

169 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:35:32pm

re: #165 Sigma_x

They might even have to start soliciting donations, seeing as advertisers are fleeing in droves.

If only that were the case. Unfortunately, they appear to be kicking ass.

170 lostlakehiker  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:36:06pm

re: #37 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes it hurts their feelings when you talk the truth.

The essence of the religious right has always been a massive inferiority and persecution complex.

So say it more strongly.

If you take the creation story literally, you are not only turning it into just a myth, but you are rejecting all evidence in the hopes of ego preservation.
You are not only removing the possibility of the real truth in the bible being looked at my good folks who are now turned off by your stupidity, but you are presuming to speak for G-d Himself and doing a very poor job of it.

If you believe in G-d and you believe that He did create the universe, than an investigation of how he put it together is nothing more than a revelation of His will.

Fundies like that are not just presuming to destroy science, but they are denying the will of G-d in the misuse of the name of G-d. And they are doing a very good job of making anyone who is sensible and does believe look stupid by association.

There is, ironically enough, an entire commandment about not misusing G-d's name. Perhaps they should read that.

I have given some thought to the book of Job, and in particular the passage in which God asks Job whether he can explain the way of an eagle in the air, etc.

To me, part of the point of this is that God is bringing to Job's attention the fact that the world is a wondrous place, that its workings are subtle and intricate and beautiful, and that it's not just this book, inspired by God, that should engage our reverence, but also this reality that is all around us and that merits a lot of thought.

We should, He is saying, when we can get around to it, think of these challenges as homework. As we come to understand it, we will come to understand that Creation is His major work, rather than being an afterthought to the Bible.

You physicists are part of this enterprise.

It's unfortunate that the text chose the somewhat loaded word "myth" to characterize the creation narrative in the Bible. But the Bible itself contains passages that can be read to say that some answers are too complicated to allow for easy human understanding and that we mustn't expect to know everything any time soon. Against this backdrop, then, why should we expect that the Biblical narrative is anything other than a very simple story, true in a sense but not literally true because any literally true account would have been a mass of equations and data that no human mind of that day, or perhaps even of our own, could have made heads or tails of?

171 LotharBot  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:37:10pm

re: #129 marjoriemoon

I do believe children should know the difference between creationism and evolutionary science

Absolutely. Good biology textbooks have been doing this for several decades without stepping on the landmine this particular book did.

I look at Myth in a lot of ways as the same as Faith.... some people care a great deal obviously.

I would care if my kid's textbook made unnecessary comments about my/his/anyone's religion. It's OK for religious/mythology textbooks to address religion, and OK for history textbooks to address historical facts about religions, but IMO it's out of bounds for a Biology textbook to make explicit reference to the Bible using emotionally loaded language (even if it's technically correct.) It would be similarly out of bounds for a Biology textbook to say "creationist beliefs are based on faith, not on science or reason" (this would be a loaded use of the word "faith".)

re: #133 Liet_Kynes

What is required and important for the creation account is the following:

[snip: nice list]

It is sort of important to remember when studying scripture that it is written by people.

It's important to remember that it was written by people in a particular time and place. Rabbinic tradition says Genesis 1 was written by Moses; secular tradition says it was written many hundreds of years after. In either case, a key point to understand is that both the author and the audience would have been intimately familiar with Egyptian religious beliefs.

If you read the Egyptian creation story and then the Genesis creation story, you'll see a lot of parallels. I think those parallels were intentionally used to set apart the Jewish religion from the Egyptian religion, and the Jewish "One True God" apart from the Egyptian pantheon. Consider:

- in the Egyptian story, the void is first, and the top god is born into the void. In Genesis, God is first and the void is a result of "God created".

- in the Egyptian story, multiple gods are working to create, sometimes together and sometimes against each other. In Genesis, the same specific God creates everything according to His own specific plan.

- in the Egyptian story, the gods are often objects like the sun and moon. In Genesis, all of the key Egyptian gods are explicitly created as mere objects; the sun and moon are not even treated as worthy of naming. the Hebrew God is clearly separate from celestial objects.

- in the Egyptian story, the gods are subject to each other and to natural forces. In Genesis, God speaks and it is so; nothing acts to thwart Him.

I think it's quite clear from the two stories that the author of Genesis was intentionally responding to, subverting, inverting, or reversing parts of the Egyptian story in order to introduce the concept of an eternal, all-powerful creator-God who is separate from the universe. With that in mind, it no longer makes sense to treat the story as a "timeline" or literal creation process.

172 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:38:11pm

re: #167 LudwigVanQuixote

You are watching the 700 club. The two are quite indistinguishable.

Except perhaps for the hot pink, very short dress in the above video. Do they dress like that on the 700 club?

173 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:40:20pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

It's also really bad business. A fired employee make quite a stink. Obama won with 53% of the vote. Imagine alienating 53% of your customers. It could ruin a business.

This is why, despite the fact that I voted for McCain, I am getting sick and gawt-damned tired of all the booger eating morons who scream "Tyranny! Fascism! Socialism! Obama is ignoring the Will of The People!" as if these were facts.

I am looking at you, Mark Levin, you epithet spewing, shit for brains fear monger.

174 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:41:14pm

re: #155 LudwigVanQuixote

Lines like this in stories like that always get me in a peculiar way:

"Pastor and Mrs. Dickweed pled not guilty to charges unthinkable in this small town."

Where the hell do reporters in America or anywhere else, after having Faulkner to read for almost a century, not to mention Steven King, get off even thinking, much less writing and broadcasting, chin-dribbling shite about small towns like that?

Hell is a function of the human soul. There is as much of it per capita in the country as in the city.

The way these stories get told makes me gag.

175 keloyd  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:41:17pm

I think it's the bee's knees that Fox can have religious proselytizing as news on one channel, then play Family Guy on their other channel, with dancing dumpster fetuses, pro marijuana riffs on Mary Poppins, and bestiality. How fair and balanced is that? /

176 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:41:38pm

re: #137 Obdicut

Try to remember that atheists actually exist, as do other people who do not take it on faith that there are any truths in scripture beyond what the words actually say.

I've met many people who use the title "atheist" but few real atheists. Most just don't believe in a personal god especially of the type that got nailed to a tree because he thought it would be better if we just tried to be kind to everyone for a change. Most though do believe in an an energy field that binds us all together, whether that be the "force" or the cosmos, the web of life, or the "universe" trying to figure itself out.

But see, what you write is EXACTLY the problem. Fundamentalists and the type of Atheists that you refer to view scripture as a literal book with Fundamentalists trying to shoehorn reality to match a literalist reading and Atheists rejecting scripture because reality isn't what a literalist reading of scripture says.

Beyond that, no one need take it on "faith" that scripture contains truths that are beyond the comprehension of the writers. It is rather a matter of fact when one looks at how things are described. Just as if one picks up the quran or the bhagavad gita one will find people writing about truths that are beyond their full comprehension.

This is simply because reality cannot be circumscribed by human words. It is always greater and bigger than we are. We being part of it, cannot fully comprehend the totality of it.

177 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:42:00pm

re: #140 reine.de.tout

You're awesome. Just sayin'.

178 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:42:28pm

re: #159 Aceofwhat?

you gonna post that gem somewhere when you're finished or what???

I'll email Charles an MP3 from the party..I'm excited to play with this band...
I just love playing guitar...My latest E minor vamp Rock Ballad...
( Don't worry..You can Google this shit and you'll never get a hit )

When I think of all the nights
All those games you played
All those times I tried to leave
And all those times I stayed
I still hear your Laughter
And it cuts me like a blade
It's a thin line

It's a thin line
Between what is and what is not
It's a thin line
Between what you need and what you got
It's a thin line
It got a foot on either side
it's a thin line

When I think of Lovers
You were the warmest of them all
Moonlight through the window
Left you shinning like a pearl
You illuminate the difference
between a woman and a girl
It's a thin line
It's a thin line....

____________
So I have written over 300 songs in my life.. It's a fun hobby..I love music..
And I have posted here over 20000 times..Sorry if I talk to much...

179 Gus  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:43:56pm

This sucks.

Pro Cyclist Struck, Killed by 'Street Racing Teens'
Sheriff's officials say the bicyclist was thrown into a nearby field and died at the scene.

HIGHLAND, Calif. -- A 27-year-old professional cyclist was struck and killed by a car that was part of a teenage street race in San Bernardino County, according to sheriff's officials.

Jorge Alvarado, of Ontario, was riding his bicycle along Greenspot Road, near Santa Ana Canyon Road, around 9:45 a.m. Thursday when he was struck by a speeding Honda Accord, San Bernardino County Sheriff's officials said.

The driver, 18-year-old Patrick Roraff, of Highland, was racing two other vehicles filled with teenagers when he drove onto the wrong side of the road in an attempt to pass them, deputies said.

He was traveling at more than 70 mph.

Roraff lost control of his car and struck Alvarado, throwing him from the bicycle. Alvarado landed in a nearby field and died at the scene from his injuries, officials said...

Originally from Mexico, Alvarado was a member of the newly formed Bahati Foundation Pro Cycling Team, according to the team's web site.

The team includes professional Floyd Landis, according to the foundation...

180 Sigma_x  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:44:02pm

I feel like I just hit the motherload vein in a major goldmine of wing-nut craziness.

It's called townhall.com. And on this page, they're "preparing parents" for Earth Day. Like it's something we all need to be forewarned about.

"Instead of adding to this alarmism, schools should provide students with some balance by presenting evidence from scientists who don't believe we are experiencing unprecedented warming or that warming is caused by man's activities."

[Link: townhall.com...]

The rest of the site is as bad/worse than that.

181 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:45:06pm

re: #166 m0nkeyb0y

I concur wholeheartedly.

And I say this as an agnostic who was raised immersed in Southern Baptist churches.
I was turned off as a teenager by the inconsistencies and circular logic employed by my father in his attempt to bend me to his worldview.

I was inculcated with sufficient deference to his authority that I quickly learned to shut up, in response to forceful and literal commands to, and bide my time till graduation.

I then proceeded to matriculate to a college in a western state I had never been to.
To this day some 20+ years later we engage in weekly phone calls a 1000 miles distant where we only discuss the weather and grandkids.

So sad, but he is now too physically feeble for me to ever broach a political subject with him.

I think having an outlet for such discussions is why I lurked here the last two years before finally registering.
I am gunshy even at 44 years of age regarding these discussions, but fascinated nonetheless.

Faith is a personal thing.

People of faith need not be threatened by that truth. Unfortunately, many are - because - especially with family, a different take on faith can seem a rejection of a person.

I have the inverse problem with my father. We are very close - and of course I adore him. However, I went off - it was actually in graduate school - and decided to look more thoroughly into my religion.

I became more religious.

My father, is a classic, highly intellectual, agnostic who borders on atheism. He thought his reasonable and scientific son had gone insane. Our world views had radically diverged. Eventually, I was able to make it clear to him that I still loved and respected him even if I disagreed on certain aspects of philosophy - and the objections really were philosophical ones that boiled down to logical positivism vs. rationalist theology.

Eventually, I was able to convince him that I would still love him even if he chose not to keep kosher and that no, I was not about to run off to Mea Sharim, make 12 babies and live off of welfare.

And I suppose it is exactly because of this experience that I come down so hard on the cretins at Fox and narrow-minded and stupid religious people everywhere. For a while, my dad saw them and not me when the topic of religion came up.

So respectfully, the only thing you can do is remind him that you love him and then present your views respectfully and as an adult. You also have to accept that some things you are not going to agree on, and that is OK. Don't try to "win." That will only make both of you lose.

182 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:46:02pm

re: #147 reine.de.tout

Oh, LVQ , really let's not hope someone actually does that.
The first person who gets hurt in that scenario is the employee.

Well said.

183 freetoken  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:46:34pm

re: #180 Sigma_x

We know about Townhall. It is owned by Salem Communications, which owns several of the righty and religious websites. They recently bought HotAir.

184 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:47:10pm

re: #171 LotharBot

With that in mind, it no longer makes sense to treat the story as a "timeline" or literal creation process.

Although the process is coherent if, as i understand it, we translate the Hebrew YWM with regard to scientific rather than literary context.

Ludwig - other Jewish friends - help me out here. YWM in Genesis 1 makes more sense when translated as 'epoch' or 'era' or 'period', doesn't it?

Wouldn't that clear up 99% of this nonsense?

185 lostlakehiker  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:47:37pm

re: #140 reine.de.tout

And - none of that matters, IMO.

Priests have access to children in a way that predators in other organizations do not, that is, they have pretty free access to children as a person of authority and as a person who children should be able to trust completely. When parents teach their kids to not talk to strangers they make exceptions for law enforcement and the clergy, don't they?

This makes their use of their special position particularly heinous, in my mind.

Then there's the whole cover-up business. Completely perplexing to me. The hierarchy - not necessarily parish priests or bishops but those in Rome - seem to have forgotten that these children and their families are just as much a part of the "universal church" as the perpetrators, and more deserving of protection than those who violate them.

Just my .02

I think it does matter. The Church has systemic organizational defects but these defects are not unique to the church. It is a lamentable fact that until recently hospitals had in place institutional features that made it all but inevitable that when evidence surfaced to suggest that someone in their employ was a serial killer, that somebody would be ushered out but with glowing letters of recommendation. Thus these killers slipped from place to place, leaving in their wake a lengthening list of victims, a list that everyone else involved was anxious not to compile.

And then there's financial institutions and their habit of betting the whole world's economy on uncertain and mind-bendingly complex financial strategies. With heads far more likely than tails, they took winnings and spread them around as bonuses and then came running to the fed when the inevitable tails showed up and bankrupted them and blew a hole in the budgets of the world as collateral damage. They honestly (well, some, honestly) thought they had a mathematical model proving that tails was impossible.

There is a science to management, and we know things now that we didn't always know, and the Church, the medical industry, and high finance have seen horrible things happen because their organizations had immune systems with weak spots.

186 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:47:39pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The idea is catching on...
Boortz: If Obama is hurting your business and you need to lay off a worker, "why not lay off an Obama voter?"

You can just imagine the sort of person who listens to Boortz. *shudder*

187 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:47:56pm

re: #176 Liet_Kynes

I'm a real atheist. And comparing me to a fundamentalist is really fucking shitty of you.

This is simply because reality cannot be circumscribed by human words. It is always greater and bigger than we are. We being part of it, cannot fully comprehend the totality of it.

That's meaningless.

188 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:48:15pm

Shabbos!

I wish the best to all lizards! Have a great weekend!

189 Sigma_x  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:48:20pm

re: #168 freetoken

Is there any evidence of this? I've been under the impression that the various boycotts are more symbolic, and not really hurting Murdoch's bottom line.

Not really hurting Murdoch's bottom line? He's being forced to try and start charging people for access to the NY Post and the WSJ online, as well as some of FOX New's content. Like people are going to pay for it.

(As it is, you already are supposed to pay for most of the content on the WSJ.com. But, all you have to do is copy the headline and paste it in Google - et voila! - access to the entire article. It works for Barrons, too.)

But if you ever watched Beck's show, about the only commercial I ever see is the one for Roslyn Capital w/G. Gordon Liddy shilling gold coins, is how bad it's gotten.

190 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:48:52pm

re: #176 Liet_Kynes

I've met many people who use the title "atheist" but few real atheists.

My belief is that there is no Supreme Being. Am I "real"?

191 Mocking Jay  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:49:09pm

re: #152 Cato the Elder

You can have no possible clue how much of my ass I've laughed off watching these - and I'm only on Part 2!

Thank you. If humor could save the world, this would be a start.

Wait till you get to his AotC review. "Enough with the friggin' lightsabers!"

192 m0nkeyb0y  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:49:25pm

re: #176 Liet_Kynes

I never claimed the mantle of atheist, preferring agnostic as a more accurate description of my skepticism toward organized religion.

Seems to me the LVQ is correct in #45 that there are facets of existince beyond scientific ken: compassion, love, evil, etc.

I have been toying with a theory that such spritual traits might be our vague perception of our parrallel extra-dimensional selves.

193 Sigma_x  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:49:43pm

re: #183 freetoken

We know about Townhall. It is owned by Salem Communications, which owns several of the righty and religious websites. They recently bought HotAir.

No shit? They bought hotair?

Huh. Makes sense now. I don't know how I missed this.

194 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:49:50pm

re: #187 Obdicut

That's meaningless.

Actually, no, it's not.

195 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:50:05pm

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

My parents know that I'm an atheist, but they simply cheerfully hold out hope for a deathbed conversion for me, and otherwise it doesn't really affect our conversations.

I think it's easier for the parents whose children become less religious, even though very few people who become less religious then become more religious again.

196 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:50:56pm

Giants/Braves now in the bottom of the 11th. Good game so far.

197 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:51:02pm

re: #186 WindUpBird

You can just imagine the sort of person who listens to Boortz. *shudder*

The funny part will be when Boortz gets named in the lawsuit. That might also convince some irresponsible pundits that they need to clean up their acts.

198 m0nkeyb0y  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:51:40pm

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

Wise and respectful words.
Thank you for setting such an fine example.

199 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:51:50pm

re: #194 Cato the Elder

Whatever. It's so banally true as to be meaningless. No human could comprehend everything in the universe. It's a truism. That doesn't imply that there are any individual truths incomprehensible to a human.

I've never understood the attraction of belief in a god who created a universe that was somehow fundamentally incomprehensible. It paints god in such a crappy light.

200 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:51:55pm

re: #184 Aceofwhat?

Although the process is coherent if, as i understand it, we translate the Hebrew YWM with regard to scientific rather than literary context.

Ludwig - other Jewish friends - help me out here. YWM in Genesis 1 makes more sense when translated as 'epoch' or 'era' or 'period', doesn't it?

Wouldn't that clear up 99% of this nonsense?

Yom literally means day, but the text itself tells you that it is a metaphor for a period of time from G-d's perspective. What it means in terms of time as we would measure it is actually a separate question.

201 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:51:57pm

re: #190 wrenchwench

My belief is that there is no Supreme Being. Am I "real"?

nope.

202 freetoken  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:52:28pm

re: #189 Sigma_x

Not really hurting Murdoch's bottom line? He's being forced to try and start charging people for access to the NY Post and the WSJ online, as well as some of FOX New's content. ...

"Forced"... by his own lust for more money. Murdoch has a long history, around the world, of how he operates and makes money. He knows that he can manipulate people by appealing to whatever base, elemental, aspect of human nature that can put into pictures or words. Of all the wealthy who have learned how to understand what Madison Ave. discovered (the manipulation of buyers through words and pictures), Murdoch is one of the more successful.

203 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:52:43pm

re: #198 m0nkeyb0y

You might be interested in Don Cuppitt. He believes in a non-real god-- a god as real as love, faith, hope, etc.

204 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:53:34pm

re: #160 marjoriemoon

For me, I'm not really arguing against the believers. I'm a believer (I thought love was only true in fairy tales...) I guess I'm called an old time creationist? I think evolution and genesis can be put together.

But none of that matters to this. The creationist movement began when the prayer movement finally died. Then they figured if they could get creationism into science class, they'd have it cinched. Except they have no peer reviewed journals. Why? Because no one can prove God.

This is for the clergy to sort out, not the schools.

Ya, I am with you there. I really HATE how Fundamentalist have co-oped the term "creationist". Over 10 years ago when I was studying a course on cosmology the creationist term wasn't reserved to strict young earth anti-science folks.

I am with St. Augustine on this matter. I believe in evolution AND that God created the universe.

Well I wouldn't say no-one can prove God. It depends on what type of evidence one is willing to accept. I will say though that the bible is a really poor way to prove that God exists. Scripture tells us something about a God that we already believe in. It is not "proof" it is rather a testimony of those that have believed.

205 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:53:37pm

re: #192 m0nkeyb0y

I never claimed the mantle of atheist, preferring agnostic as a more accurate description of my skepticism toward organized religion.

Seems to me the LVQ is correct in #45 that there are facets of existince beyond scientific ken: compassion, love, evil, etc.

I have been toying with a theory that such spritual traits might be our vague perception of our parrallel extra-dimensional selves.

Change tthat language back to just spirit and concepts like heaven, and you are back to faith. It is the exact same thing, only made more palatable by using pseudo-scientific language.

206 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:54:11pm

ok now I really have to go! Be well all!

207 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:54:29pm

re: #201 Aceofwhat?

nope.

That may hinder my ability to fix the next bicycle. Wish me luck.

208 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:55:47pm

re: #200 LudwigVanQuixote

Yom literally means day, but the text itself tells you that it is a metaphor for a period of time from G-d's perspective. What it means in terms of time as we would measure it is actually a separate question.

The Universe is 13.7 Billion years old..
We have no Concept of God's time my friend..

209 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:58:55pm

re: #207 wrenchwench

That may hinder my ability to fix the next bicycle. Wish me luck.

Oh, that? That's simple. All you have to do is come to understand that there is no bicycle, and voila, it's fixed.

210 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 4:59:53pm

re: #208 HoosierHoops

God's time...
That's where I am my friend!
I can't look out this window and believe this just happened!
By the way...I just mowed my lawn for the second time this season!!
Life is good! no mater how it happened!!

211 m0nkeyb0y  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:00:06pm

re: #205 LudwigVanQuixote

I am still open to that possibility, hence never latching onto the militant atheism too often displayed, at least by the loudest amongst them.

And the commonalities in human existince, culture, and religions is what has always informed my open mind on the subject.
Have always felt that if there is a G-d that he embodies all the best of religions through the ages, and very little of the organized thereof.

212 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:00:07pm

For those who missed the link this am, Jeff Beck's new album is streaming in its entirety at NPR for the next four days only,. you might want to take a listen

[Link: www.npr.org...]

213 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:00:38pm

re: #200 LudwigVanQuixote

Yom literally means day, but the text itself tells you that it is a metaphor for a period of time from G-d's perspective. What it means in terms of time as we would measure it is actually a separate question.

Bingo. And outside of that, the Genesis 1 order of things is quite in parallel with how our brains, which God gave us by the way, have led us to understand these things. What kills me is the Creationists' insistence on using the 24-hour definition of a term that, AFAIK, is also used elsewhere to describe a finite but otherwise unexplained period of time.

214 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:01:22pm

I sitting here in my kitchen listening to a freind of my wife. She asks me if I'm afraid of Obama. (WTF?) How the hell should I be afraid of Obama?
He's bad for Isreal.
We don't live in Isreal. Besides, it's Isreal that bad for Isreal right now. If you want to be afraid of anyone, it should be Netenyahoo.
(Change of subject) Do you think doctors are going to get screwed? (She and my wife are doctors)
I really don't know. Weren't reimbursements going down anyway? (the answer is yes)
Change of subject again(!) Whenever I listen to Rush it makes me want to cry.
You should hear Glen Beck.
But there's a little bit of truth in what he says.
Yeah, I guess so. (This is an educated person here)

215 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:01:37pm

re: #210 reloadingisnotahobby

God's time...
That's where I am my friend!
I can't look out this window and believe this just happened!
By the way...I just mowed my lawn for the second time this season!!
Life is good! no mater how it happened!!

My yard is a jungle...I'll tackle it next week..
Hope today finds you well

216 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:01:45pm

re: #199 Obdicut

Whatever. It's so banally true as to be meaningless. No human could comprehend everything in the universe. It's a truism. That doesn't imply that there are any individual truths incomprehensible to a human.

I've never understood the attraction of belief in a god who created a universe that was somehow fundamentally incomprehensible. It paints god in such a crappy light.

A truism is a truism precisely because it's true. How it's stated is what determines whether a particular iteration is banal or profound.

Most atheist physicists now believe that there are things about our universe that are fundamentally beyond our human grasp. The leap from there to positing a being who could grasp those things we can't is not a very big one. Whether you called such a being "God" or "Really Smart Big Dog Apollo", and whether Apollo were actually the creator or merely to us what we are to dogs, is immaterial.

That we can study dogs means there may be creatures who can study us, and see things which we miss because we're too busy being us to notice them.

I think you miss some of the wonder inherent in the discussion, and that you do Liet Kynes a disservice. It does not seem to me that the two of you are natural antagonists.

217 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:01:48pm

re: #207 wrenchwench

That may hinder my ability to fix the next bicycle. Wish me luck.

Dear imaginary construct: good luck

//

218 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:01:52pm

re: #213 Aceofwhat?

Bingo. And outside of that, the Genesis 1 order of things is quite in parallel with how our brains, which God gave us by the way, have led us to understand these things. What kills me is the Creationists' insistence on using the 24-hour definition of a term that, AFAIK, is also used elsewhere to describe a finite but otherwise unexplained period of time.

Because they see any concession as a prelude to giving up the whole store. They don't want to surrender any of the power they hold.

219 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:02:00pm

re: #209 Slumbering Behemoth

The "Zen" of fixing shit that "Zen should have never allowed to break in the first place!!
Now that I can understand...Not!

220 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:02:10pm

re: #214 stevemcg

It's spelled "Israel", BTW...

221 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:03:07pm

re: #195 Obdicut

My parents know that I'm an atheist, but they simply cheerfully hold out hope for a deathbed conversion for me, and otherwise it doesn't really affect our conversations.

I think it's easier for the parents whose children become less religious, even though very few people who become less religious then become more religious again.

heh.
My daughter's boyfriend was raised Catholic, but claims now to be an atheist.

I'm not even his parent but I hold out hope he will return to the fold.

Whatever - he's a nice kid, and I like him regardless.

222 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:03:24pm

re: #211 m0nkeyb0y

I am still open to that possibility, hence never latching onto the militant atheism too often displayed, at least by the loudest amongst them.

And the commonalities in human existince, culture, and religions is what has always informed my open mind on the subject.
Have always felt that if there is a G-d that he embodies all the best of religions through the ages, and very little of the organized thereof.

The best atheists i've ever met are on this blog. Take a Christian's word for it...

223 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:03:30pm

re: #220 Floral Giraffe

I do it both ways, figuring I'll get it right sometimes.

224 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:03:50pm

re: #190 wrenchwench

My belief is that there is no Supreme Being. Am I "real"?

I dunno.
Maybe you're me in disguise.

225 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:04:00pm

re: #215 HoosierHoops

You too ..H.H.!
It's my turn to make dinner...
I've called the pizza order in...
Damn I'm good!

226 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:05:07pm

re: #223 stevemcg

There's a spellcheck button just to the left of the post button. In case you hadn't seen it...

227 Sigma_x  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:05:18pm

Man, they are losing it at hotair over the prospect of Obama seating another Supreme Court Justice.

Comedy Gold.

228 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:05:20pm

re: #216 Cato the Elder

A truism is a truism precisely because it's true. How it's stated is what determines whether a particular iteration is banal or profound.

No, style doesn't really count.

Most atheist physicists now believe that there are things about our universe that are fundamentally beyond our human grasp.

And you get that from where, exactly?

The leap from there to positing a being who could grasp those things we can't is not a very big one.

Actually, it's an enormous leap, since we're the only example of sentience we have. Assuming that a sentience exists that's fundamentally different in that regard makes the leap a gigantic one. It is not a logical leap, it is a leap of faith.

That we can study dogs means there may be creatures who can study us, and see things which we miss because we're too busy being us to notice them.

May? Sure. There may be a teapot.

These are not new arguments that you're bringing.

I think you miss some of the wonder inherent in the discussion, and that you do Liet Kynes a disservice. It does not seem to me that the two of you are natural antagonists.

He's most recently been posting repeatedly in defense of the Catholic church's actions during the abuse scandal in an unctuous way that goes right up my nose. In that, he is most definitely a natural antagonist to me.

229 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:05:57pm

re: #220 Floral Giraffe

It's spelled "Israel", BTW...

and "'friend".

And from earlier, it's "Charles", not "Chuck".

230 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:06:05pm

re: #216 Cato the Elder

A truism is a truism precisely because it's true. How it's stated is what determines whether a particular iteration is banal or profound.

Most atheist physicists now believe that there are things about our universe that are fundamentally beyond our human grasp. The leap from there to positing a being who could grasp those things we can't is not a very big one. Whether you called such a being "God" or "Really Smart Big Dog Apollo", and whether Apollo were actually the creator or merely to us what we are to dogs, is immaterial.

That we can study dogs means there may be creatures who can study us, and see things which we miss because we're too busy being us to notice them.

I think you miss some of the wonder inherent in the discussion, and that you do Liet Kynes a disservice. It does not seem to me that the two of you are natural antagonists.

Indeed. I took Liet's statement to profess that they believe there are more dimensions than the three in which we can currently move. Just as a two-dimensional being could not comprehend how we can be in two places at once (smush your hand on a piece of paper and voila...in two dimensions, you are God!), we cannot fully comprehend extradimensionality.

I thought Liet was making less of a statement about knowledge (can we know the entire universe) and more a statement about dimensionality.

But perhaps i misunderstood them?

231 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:06:16pm

re: #216 Cato the Elder

Cato! Glad you are here..I missed your call..Call me..I have some news for you about what we spoke of...Call my Internet phone that starts with an 8...

Plus I'm practicing for the party Saturday.. I have the studio pro turned up and the green classic strat screaming and the windows begging for mercy...Winston is in the Den hiding under something..Wimp!
LOL
Call me!

232 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:06:24pm

re: #219 reloadingisnotahobby

I was going for a "Matrix" "There is no spoon" thing, but that doesn't matter, your comment was funny. :)

233 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:06:29pm

Does anyone have a link to the book?

234 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:06:37pm

re: #221 reine.de.tout

My grandmother was an atheist, and the most ethical and moral person I ever knew. I think that has had a large effect on me.

By the way, have I recommended Terry Pratchett's book "Nation" to you yet? I think you'd enjoy it a lot. It is a strong argument for atheism, but also a strong recognition of the need for faith.

235 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:07:07pm

re: #218 Dark_Falcon

Because they see any concession as a prelude to giving up the whole store. They don't want to surrender any of the power they hold.

And of course, what Jesus really wanted us to do was "hang on to our power".

My head hurts.

236 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:07:07pm

re: #227 Sigma_x

Man, they are losing it at hotair over the prospect of Obama seating another Supreme Court Justice.

Comedy Gold.

I'm not crazy about it either, but I'm trying to be sane about it. Any nuggets of prime unintentional hilarity?

237 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:07:41pm

re: #226 Floral Giraffe

Isn't this more of a conversational blog than a formal environment?

238 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:08:25pm

re: #229 reine.de.tout

and "'friend".

And from earlier, it's "Charles", not "Chuck".

Wound a little tight for a Friday, huh?

239 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:08:26pm

re: #160 marjoriemoon

(I thought love was only true in fairy tales...) ....

Ah but see it is those fairy tales that let us get up in the morning. Ultimately belief in anything boils down to considering that it will end most well for yourself and for those that you care about.

Fundamentalists though don't really believe such things. They believe that things are not going to end most well, but rather that there will be a lot of fire and blood for those that are not like them. Thus all this racket that they put out is not really so much for the "damned outsider" but rather to insure that the are pure and on the inside. They are afraid that God is going to punish a lot of people and don't want to be on the wrong side of God's wrath.

If you feel like digging and connecting things, these creationists are also by and large the same type of Christians that reject that God's mercy triumphs his justice...

240 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:08:29pm

re: #227 Sigma_x

Man, they are losing it at hotair over the prospect of Obama seating another Supreme Court Justice.

Comedy Gold.

Shrug.

I don't like Liu as an appeals court nominee. that doesn't make me crazy.

241 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:08:29pm

re: #226 Floral Giraffe

hwat het leeh??
splle chkec??
Got an E-mail the other day with a paragraph jumble...
I read it as fast as if the letters were in the correct
order..have you seen this?

242 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:09:00pm

re: #229 reine.de.tout

Oh, is he the same poster?

243 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:09:02pm

re: #236 Dark_Falcon

I'm not crazy about it either, but I'm trying to be sane about it. Any nuggets of prime unintentional hilarity?

Look at this way, he's only getting to chose another retiring liberal's place. The make up of the court won't change, we're just replacing an old worn out tire with a new one, once the process is done the vehicle will still tilt to the right when you drive it.

244 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:09:16pm

re: #235 Aceofwhat?

And of course, what Jesus really wanted us to do was "hang on to our power".

My head hurts.

It takes a lot to be able to accept the truth of Jesus' teachings into one's heart. Many people who think they have still fall prey to worldly temptation, which what has happened to those creationists who insist on foring their views on others.

245 allegro  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:09:16pm

Here's some on the ground reality... I'm a recently retired biology prof from a major state university. A big reason I retired? Ignorant, argumentative little shits who were raised on this creationist religious crap and who refused to learn. At first there were only a few and they weren't a big deal to cope with. The past 8 years or so, they grew in number and became increasingly bold assholes to the point of abuse when I, of course graded them appropriate to their knowledge and understanding of the material.

This crap is a horrible abuse of our nation's kids.

246 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:10:04pm

re: #234 Obdicut

My grandmother was an atheist, and the most ethical and moral person I ever knew. I think that has had a large effect on me.

By the way, have I recommended Terry Pratchett's book "Nation" to you yet? I think you'd enjoy it a lot. It is a strong argument for atheism, but also a strong recognition of the need for faith.

I'll put it on my wish list.
I have the Five Books of Moses you recommended though haven't yet done anything more than skim.

247 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:10:23pm

re: #238 stevemcg

Watch it.

248 LotharBot  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:10:41pm

re: #184 Aceofwhat?

Although the process is coherent if, as i understand it, we translate the Hebrew YWM with regard to scientific rather than literary context.

Ludwig - other Jewish friends - help me out here. YWM in Genesis 1 makes more sense when translated as 'epoch' or 'era' or 'period', doesn't it?

The "era" thing is a little better than "24-hour days", but you still have to creatively reinterpret certain bits of it (ie, the sun/moon "become visible" in such-and-such era; they were created sooner). I've studied it pretty extensively, and it always feels like I have to twist and manipulate and violate the text to get it to fit into any sort of sensible timeline.

I think it's much more in line with the text to view it as a poetic introduction to monotheism. All the evening-morning-day stuff provides a literary framework in which "God is eternal and created everything according to His own purpose" is brought out. Once I read the Egyptian creation story, the Genesis creation story seemed so natural as a response. I no longer had to ignore details that didn't fit the timeline, and details I had long ignored (like the sun/moon not being treated as worthy of names) suddenly became obvious.

If you're interested, read the Egyptian creation story I linked above. Get it in your head; think about the sort of gods described therein. Then immediately read the first chapter of Genesis, and see how the details seem to purposefully contradict the Egyptian account.

249 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:10:43pm

re: #232 Slumbering Behemoth

I was going for a "Matrix" "There is no spoon" thing, but that doesn't matter, your comment was funny. :)

i laughed. you can always count on my nerdery...

250 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:11:26pm

re: #228 Obdicut

No, style doesn't really count.

And for that blasphemy against my creed, I bid you welcome to my scrollover list, part A: people who mimic intelligence long enough to suck you into an argument, then stand revealed as enormous solipsistic time sinks.

Bye, now.

251 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:11:26pm

re: #241 reloadingisnotahobby

hwat het leeh??
splle chkec??
Got an E-mail the other day with a paragraph jumble...
I read it as fast as if the letters were in the correct
order..have you seen this?

Yep. as lnog as you hvae the frist and lsat leterts in the corrcet palces, tehn the hmuan mnid can tarslnate the wrdos isntnalty.

252 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:11:27pm

re: #233 Spare O'Lake

Does anyone have a link to the book?

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

253 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:11:28pm

re: #244 Dark_Falcon

It takes a lot to be able to accept the truth of Jesus' teachings into one's heart. Many people who think they have still fall prey to worldly temptation, which what has happened to those creationists who insist on foring their views on others.

well said

254 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:11:31pm

re: #247 Slumbering Behemoth

Uh-oh? Am I in trouble?

255 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:11:32pm

re: #245 allegro

It is also incredibly destructive to our nation, in that our kids are becoming less competitive, more insular, less able to engage with the real world.

America did not become a superpower because of church attendance. The important part of "Protestant work ethic" isn't "Protestant".

Science, reason, individualism, freedom, and opportunity has made this country what it is.

256 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:12:05pm

re: #234 Obdicut

My grandmother was an atheist, and the most ethical and moral person I ever knew. I think that has had a large effect on me.

By the way, have I recommended Terry Pratchett's book "Nation" to you yet? I think you'd enjoy it a lot. It is a strong argument for atheism, but also a strong recognition of the need for faith.

Actually, after reading the blurbs, I went ahead and ordered it!

257 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:12:32pm

re: #238 stevemcg

Wound a little tight for a Friday, huh?

Moi?
Not really

258 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:12:36pm

re: #250 Cato the Elder

And for that blasphemy against my creed, I bid you welcome to my scrollover list, part A: people who mimic intelligence long enough to suck you into an argument, then stand revealed as enormous solipsistic time sinks.

Bye, now.

#231

259 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:13:00pm

re: #256 reine.de.tout

Heh. And it was also written by a man who knows he's dying-- Pratchett has Alzheimers, of a quite cruel kind; it's progression will leave his intellect intact even as it destroys his body's ability to regulate itself.

It's a very bravely written book, in that context.

260 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:13:29pm

re: #242 Floral Giraffe

Oh, is he the same poster?

Believe so.
Short on respect.
As evidenced by the misspelling of Israel, etc.

261 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:14:26pm

re: #254 stevemcg

Be nice to Reine, she was only giving you a helpful recommendation on how not to disrespect our host.

262 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:15:09pm

re: #248 LotharBot

The "era" thing is a little better than "24-hour days", but you still have to creatively reinterpret certain bits of it (ie, the sun/moon "become visible" in such-and-such era; they were created sooner). I've studied it pretty extensively, and it always feels like I have to twist and manipulate and violate the text to get it to fit into any sort of sensible timeline.

Naw, from what i understand of the Earth's formation, if you were standing on the surface and watching everything in fast-forward, you wouldn't be able to see through the soupy atmosphere until plant life had already taken hold.

But I absolutely agree that making a distinction in opposition to other religions is the major point of the myth.

263 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:15:51pm

re: #237 stevemcg

Isn't this more of a conversational blog than a formal environment?

Spelling and courtesy are important in every way.

264 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:17:04pm

re: #250 Cato the Elder

I'm sorry, Cato, but your definition of Truism is simply wrong. It does not matter how it's stated-- the definition of a truism is something that is not profound.

If what you are saying is profound, it is by its nature not a truism. That's what the word, you know, means.

I apologize if I offended you by saying your arguments weren't new, but they aren't.

And you really should read Dennett, at some point. Maybe you will also conclude he's also a solipsist, but you should give yourself the chance.

265 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:17:54pm

re: #251 darthstar

And here I thought I was dense............./
I process things ..visually different that the average human driod!
I'm special!//

266 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:18:03pm

re: #254 stevemcg

Uh-oh? Am I in trouble?

Not really, but 'Chuck' is what wingnuts and stalkers use as a term of belittlement and abuse against Charles.

267 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:18:48pm

re: #260 reine.de.tout

Short on repect? I wonder if you even know what you're talking about. I was amused when my whimsical NOOO(with a whole bunch of extra "o"'s) got truncated, so I lightheartedly wondered if there were budget cuts on the blog. I mean, it is a blog after all, we are not writing the next books of the Bible. That was all there was to it. No flouncing, no abusing anybody, I don't even think I said a bad word all day. If reine is so worked up about respect, it's hard to maintain a level of respect when somebody is kind of going off the deep end. But I'll be polite. I always have been.

268 cliffster  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:18:59pm

My little girl just grabbed my iphone to play a game. "I haven't played this game in years". She's four. You haven't been around for years, kid. Neither has the iphone.

269 keloyd  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:19:14pm

re: #214 stevemcg

I can't find the citation anymore, something from NPR - in the 08 elections, Obama carried "medical professionals". I guess that means doctors, maybe also nurses. It always intrigued me that the people Obama is supposed to be the enemy of voted for him (oh, and Obama got the Military vote, though officers alone went slightly for McCain.)

I mostly agree on Netenyahu. There's justice, then there's playing a bit of a psych-ops game to get a better deal. I don't begrudge him doing a bit of both.

On the spelling/grammar thing - you better chose correctly whether "anal_retentive" should be spelled with or without a hyphen, or you're in big trouble.//

270 bratwurst  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:19:47pm

re: #267 stevemcg

Short on repect? I wonder if you even know what you're talking about.

This wasn't...um...exactly a step in the right direction.

271 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:20:01pm

re: #268 cliffster

My little girl just grabbed my iphone to play a game. "I haven't played this game in years". She's four. You haven't been around for years, kid. Neither has the iphone.

At least she's learning intelligent colloquialisms...would you rather she say 'you betcha!' and 'drill baby, drill'?

272 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:20:58pm

re: #267 stevemcg

Chill dude.
Don't be so tightly wound.
It's Friday.

273 syrius  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:21:11pm

I used to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, which of course should lead into believing in God and Christ. Of course, I learned Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny were imaginary and were used to keep my ass in line. "You better be nice or else Santa is gonna give ya coal!". My parents took me to Church tried to show me the "Way" to leading a good moral life. "You better believe or else your soul is going to hell!". Then I questioned authority. Got an edjumication, enjoyed the Sciences- mainly Astrophysics and Space Exploration...and realized we are a little speck in space. The ignorant will be ignorant. Fox News is an Entertainment Company. They allow us to laugh at Dumbfuckistan and the people who occupy it. I feel for the children who are mentally abused by the ignorant Dumbfuckistan people and hope one day the children will realize they were told a lie. The Internet is where religions come to die. I hope Tenn. will allow for the of the FSM and his noodly appendage to touch all.

274 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:21:11pm

re: #267 stevemcg

i love the three-letter limit on repeating characters. just another nice feature. otherwise, people can get annoying with the wraparound word drama.

275 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:21:19pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

I've been posting here for a couple months, but I can't actually remember seeing anybody use that sobriquet around here. Maybe they do it on other blogs, but I don't really blog around too much. Too much idiocy is bad for the temper.

276 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:21:37pm

re: #271 darthstar

That there's funny!
I don't care who ya are!

277 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:21:54pm

re: #271 darthstar

At least she's learning intelligent colloquialisms...would you rather she say 'you betcha!' and 'drill baby, drill'?

Can't decide to upding or not.

I'm in the "drill baby, drill" camp, myself.

278 cliffster  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:23:37pm

re: #271 darthstar

At least she's learning intelligent colloquialisms...would you rather she say 'you betcha!' and 'drill baby, drill'?

Funny. However, "you betcha" is a colloquialism she is likely to pick up on soon where I live. "Drill baby, drill" is not a colloquialism, but if she told me that, I'd give her a high-five.

279 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:24:04pm

re: #277 reine.de.tout

Can't decide to upding or not.

I'm in the "drill baby, drill" camp, myself.

And .."Refine baby refine"!
Not the same ring to it eh?

280 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:24:20pm

re: #273 syrius

It's funny how we behaved better for Santa than our own parents.

281 LotharBot  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:24:26pm

re: #262 Aceofwhat?

Naw, from what i understand of the Earth's formation, if you were standing on the surface and watching everything in fast-forward, you wouldn't be able to see through the soupy atmosphere until plant life had already taken hold.

IIRC there would have been a lot of plant-like things, lots of mosses and such, but probably not "trees".

The text *sort of* works as a timeline. But not really. It's got too many things like that -- too many things that are just a little bit out of order, or just don't quite fit.

Whereas, if the text isn't meant to be taken as an explicit timeline, but more like a listing of "stuff God created", it makes perfect sense as a counterpoint to the Egyptian creation story.

282 syrius  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:25:42pm

re: #280 stevemcg

True...incentives!

283 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:25:52pm

re: #280 stevemcg

Was never told Santa was real!
Did you really behave better just before Christmas??

.Sucker!!/

284 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:25:59pm

re: #278 cliffster

Funny. However, "you betcha" is a colloquialism she is likely to pick up on soon where I live. "Drill baby, drill" is not a colloquialism, but if she told me that, I'd give her a high-five.

Okay...then you have nothing to worry about unless she starts saying "que sera sera"

285 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:26:08pm

re: #279 reloadingisnotahobby

How about "Burn, baby burn" It doesn't really matter whether you drilled, refined, grew, scavenged, etc. It all winds up as CO2.

286 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:26:21pm

re: #281 LotharBot

IIRC there would have been a lot of plant-like things, lots of mosses and such, but probably not "trees".

The text *sort of* works as a timeline. But not really. It's got too many things like that -- too many things that are just a little bit out of order, or just don't quite fit.

Whereas, if the text isn't meant to be taken as an explicit timeline, but more like a listing of "stuff God created", it makes perfect sense as a counterpoint to the Egyptian creation story.

Sure, like you said - it's a counterpoint first, not a textbook. I just think it's neat that the general progression of things is accurate. I don't know of any other creation story that can say the same.

287 cliffster  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:28:41pm

re: #284 darthstar

Okay...then you have nothing to worry about unless she starts saying "que sera sera"

Actually, I like that one. Do everything you can to do what's right, and then take peace in that while the chips fall where they fall.

288 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:28:48pm

re: #285 stevemcg

How about "Burn, baby burn" It doesn't really matter whether you drilled, refined, grew, scavenged, etc. It all winds up as CO2.

Good one.

289 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:29:11pm

re: #273 syrius

Good Lord..You Bared your soul and got down dinged by someone I have never heard off..
I think that really sucks.. You didn't attack a soul and expressed yourself..And got slapped in the face..Sorry I'll upding you..Even though I have a different view...

290 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:29:25pm

re: #275 stevemcg

I've been posting here for a couple months, but I can't actually remember seeing anybody use that sobriquet around here. Maybe they do it on other blogs, but I don't really blog around too much. Too much idiocy is bad for the temper.

Well, I do blog around a bit and I can tell you that the stalkers really do use terms like 'Chuck' and 'Chuckles' to attack our host. That is part of why we do not use it. The other part is respect; He prefers to call himself 'Charles' and thus that is what is appropriate to refer to him as.

291 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:29:32pm

re: #285 stevemcg

..Let me add...Continue reducing emissions and CO2...increase economy..
Unless the idea of 4.00$ head of lettuce is attractive to ya?
Is that better?
If fuel was 1.99 a gallon what would our economy be like??

292 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:31:38pm

re: #288 darthstar

Good one.


[Video]

The problem is that too many wingnuts would take "Burn, Baby, Burn!" in the original Watts context, as riled up as they are.

293 keloyd  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:32:04pm

re: #286 Aceofwhat?

definitely less wide of the mark than the earth resting its foundations on the back of a giant tiger, atop an elephant, who stands atop a turtle, who rests atop another turtle, then it's turtles all the way down.

OTOH, the Hindus alone got the age of the universe at the right order of magnitude, so let's call it a tie.

294 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:32:15pm

re: #292 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that too many wingnuts would take "Burn, Baby, Burn!" in the original Watts context, as riled up as they are.

Or in the literary sense. They loves burning them books.

295 cliffster  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:32:40pm

What makes an engine happy?
What makes an engine sad?
It all depends what's happened
and what type of day you've had..

What makes an engine happy?
What makes an engine sad?
So many things can make your day
a good one or a bad.

296 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:33:17pm

re: #295 cliffster

Varoom!

297 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:33:50pm
MYTH
Main Entry: myth
Pronunciation: ˈmith
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek mythos
Date: 1830
1 a : a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon
b : parable, allegory

2 a : a popular belief or tradition that has grown up around something or someone; especially : one embodying the ideals and institutions of a society or segment of society
b : an unfounded or false notion
3 : a person or thing having only an imaginary or unverifiable existence

4 : the whole body of myths

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

298 cliffster  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:33:53pm

re: #296 reloadingisnotahobby

Varoom!

Nobody fucks with the Thomas

299 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:34:23pm

re: #291 reloadingisnotahobby

..Let me add...Continue reducing emissions and CO2...increase economy..
Unless the idea of 4.00$ head of lettuce is attractive to ya?
Is that better?
If fuel was 1.99 a gallon what would our economy be like??

Funny you should ask. I've always believed that gas was too cheap. There are costs of using fossil fuels that we don't really pay. For example, eventually we have to act on climate change which will be expensive, there are short term environmental costs (spills, etc0 and there are the now all too obvious political and foreign policy costs. But to imagine an economy with $1.99/gal fuel is hard because you'd have to make all kinds of assumptions and contortions just to get the price of gas down, before you even start to wonder.

300 freetoken  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:35:08pm

re: #297 Spare O'Lake

Many English words have numerous denotations. Yet, in the end we make do with words overloaded with meaning.

"Myth" is still an appropriate word to describe creation stories.

301 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:35:16pm

re: #264 Obdicut

I'm sorry, Cato, but your definition of Truism is simply wrong. It does not matter how it's stated-- the definition of a truism is something that is not profound.

If what you are saying is profound, it is by its nature not a truism. That's what the word, you know, means.

Since when does truth require profundity? This is an assumption only a post-Heideggerian autothoughtbot could make.

Truth is true. That is, you know, the meaning of the word.

302 cliffster  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:35:27pm

re: #299 stevemcg

We're already hanging a debt on our kids and grandkids that they have no hope of repaying. What's a little more?

303 syrius  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:35:34pm

re: #289 HoosierHoops

Down Dinged?!? We all have our own perspectives on the past, present, and future. I enjoy my life. I try to lead a good life and keep a smile on my face and everyone around me. I can't help those who are so sensitive about possible doubt in their own beliefs. If their belief in the supernatural was solid then why get so defensive.

304 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:35:40pm

Over at VDARE they are still going nuts over McDonnell adding in Slavery - two of the articles:

Ponnuru, McDonnell And The Great Virginia Grovel—If They Won't Stand Up For The South, They Won’t Stand Up For America --Ellison Lodge

The New Intolerance--Hatred Of The South Is Hatred Of America, by Patrick J Buchanan

305 Macha  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:36:45pm

re: #297 Spare O'Lake

/ isn't a myth a female moth?

306 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:37:39pm

re: #300 freetoken

Many English words have numerous denotations. Yet, in the end we make do with words overloaded with meaning.

"Myth" is still an appropriate word to describe creation stories.

But the writers would have saved a lot of grief if they had used the hi-falutin' "mythos".

307 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:37:43pm

re: #303 syrius

Down Dinged?!? We all have our own perspectives on the past, present, and future. I enjoy my life. I try to lead a good life and keep a smile on my face and everyone around me. I can't help those who are so sensitive about possible doubt in their own beliefs. If their belief in the supernatural was solid then why get so defensive.

that's my favorite thing to say about violent religious extremists who get "offended".

What...your God needs you to get His/Her back? Really? Huh...

308 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:37:47pm

re: #305 Macha

/ isn't a myth a female moth?

I think you are mythtaken. That would be a mythnomer.

309 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:38:03pm

re: #302 cliffster

We're already hanging a debt on our kids and grandkids that they have no hope of repaying. What's a little more?

Yeah, maybe they won't notice because they'll be bailing out their basements, right? The only reason I oppose drilling now is that I believe that oil will be worth more in the future. We have to leave these kids something valuable.

310 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:39:22pm

Giants win in the 13th!
Woot...

311 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:39:29pm

re: #187 Obdicut

I'm a real atheist. And comparing me to a fundamentalist is really fucking shitty of you.

That's meaningless.

AH but I didn't compare you to a fundamentalist. I said that atheists who view that scripture is to be taken literally (but reject it) have the same attitude as fundamentalists who view that scripture is to be taken literally (and accept it). Both these types of atheists and fundamentalists are making the exact same errors in logic and their ability to read a text.

If you fit into that category (which I have not said that you do), I am not at fault for the errors that you are making. If you do fit into that category, I ask kindly that you stop treating scripture as a literal text.

312 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:39:35pm

re: #309 stevemcg

The only reason I oppose drilling now is that I believe that oil will be worth more in the future. We have to leave these kids something valuable.

That has to be the stupidest thing I've read all month.

313 Macha  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:39:40pm

re: #308 Thanos

I think you are mythtaken. That would be a mythnomer.

Its quite mythterious.

314 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:39:58pm

re: #312 Cato the Elder

That has to be the stupidest thing I've read all month.

seconded

315 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:40:06pm

re: #310 HoosierHoops

Giants win in the 13th!
Woot...

I'll call you a bit later. Things going on here...

Thanks!

316 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:40:50pm

re: #304 Thanos

Over at VDARE they are still going nuts over McDonnell adding in Slavery - two of the articles:

Ponnuru, McDonnell And The Great Virginia Grovel—If They Won't Stand Up For The South, They Won’t Stand Up For America --Ellison Lodge

The New Intolerance--Hatred Of The South Is Hatred Of America, by Patrick J Buchanan

Excuse me, I thought that the South seceded because it did not want to be part of America any more.

/Idiots

317 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:41:02pm

re: #310 HoosierHoops

Giants win in the 13th!
Woot...

Yay! Now my wife can come home!

318 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:41:35pm

re: #300 freetoken

Many English words have numerous denotations. Yet, in the end we make do with words overloaded with meaning.

"Myth" is still an appropriate word to describe creation stories.

Well yes it is appropriate.
But if you want to call some joe blow a moron or an idiot because they take exception to the use of a word, then it would only be fair to first rule out the possibility that offence was taken due to a misunderstanding based on some real ambiguity in the meaning of the word.

319 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:42:07pm

re: #299 stevemcg

Not really!
If the environment is the issue,,How about not FLOATING it across a fucking ocean?
Refine it as efficiently and use it to it's full potential...
Not to mention sending BILLIONS of dollars to apart of the world that 90%
of the pop...would rather see us dead!!
I'd like to let them drown in the oil!
I'm all for being a good steward of or Earth!!
But unless you live in the middle of a corn field...you need to move FOOD from point A to point B!
75 % of feeding you and your loved ones is.....TRANSPORTING it!

320 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:42:28pm

re: #313 Macha

Its quite mythterious.

Mythical even..

321 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:42:37pm

re: #316 Dark_Falcon

Excuse me, I thought that the South seceded because it did not want to be part of America any more.

/Idiots

D'oh!

322 syrius  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:42:41pm

re: #307 Aceofwhat?

I think that goes without saying about this Tenn parent getting all flustered about his kids getting "deprogrammed" and possibly given a chance to question all the crap he's been feeding them through the years...Thx

323 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:42:43pm

re: #290 Dark_Falcon

Well, I do blog around a bit and I can tell you that the stalkers really do use terms like 'Chuck' and 'Chuckles' to attack our host. That is part of why we do not use it. The other part is respect; He prefers to call himself 'Charles' and thus that is what is appropriate to refer to him as.

Outside of here, I just poke aroung the Daily Dish, and Philly.com's Attytood. (Philly.com also has a blog (American Debate) but the comments are inevitably the same, regardless of the topic!

324 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:42:53pm

re: #303 syrius

Down Dinged?!? We all have our own perspectives on the past, present, and future. I enjoy my life. I try to lead a good life and keep a smile on my face and everyone around me. I can't help those who are so sensitive about possible doubt in their own beliefs. If their belief in the supernatural was solid then why get so defensive.

Sorry if you got offended.. I'm watching the big screen, blogging here, Practicing on the studio Pro with the Strat for Saturday night..And my dog is licking my elbows..Bastard...
Now what where you saying bro?

325 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:42:55pm

I knew something was mything tonight -- It's Friday and I don't have Itunes cranked on nor a drink in my hand.... both mythtakes will be remedied shortly.

326 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:43:24pm

re: #320 Floral Giraffe

Mythical even..

well, they are known for mythinterpreting the bible.

327 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:43:38pm

re: #325 Thanos

I knew something was mything tonight -- It's Friday and I don't have Itunes cranked on nor a drink in my hand... both mythtakes will be remedied shortly.

...While watching Mythbusters???

328 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:43:41pm

re: #312 Cato the Elder

That has to be the stupidest thing I've read all month.

Yes, indeed.
I was trying to stay out of his way.
Me being wound so tight on a Friday, and all.

329 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:43:46pm

re: #312 Cato the Elder

His #299 is pretty good too.

330 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:44:29pm

re: #315 Cato the Elder

I'll call you a bit later. Things going on here...

Thanks!

If you miss me tonight..Call me before 3pm Saturday...

331 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:44:44pm

re: #325 Thanos

I knew something was mything tonight -- It's Friday and I don't have Itunes cranked on nor a drink in my hand... both mythtakes will be remedied shortly.

It's all a mythtery to me.

332 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:45:15pm

re: #331 darthstar

It's all a mythtery to me.

It's a big mythtake!

333 syrius  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:45:18pm

re: #324 HoosierHoops

Not offended at all...I appreciate your opinion and thanks goes out to you for "updinging me". I like a good discussion.

334 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:46:02pm

re: #332 Floral Giraffe

It's a big mythtake!

Just a mythunderstanding

335 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:46:36pm

re: #334 darthstar

Just a mythunderstanding

Mything linkths?

336 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:46:52pm

re: #334 darthstar

Just a mythunderstanding

Now, that should be mythunderthtanding.

337 syrius  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:47:13pm

GTG...Later Everyone! Have a great Friday Night!

338 darthstar  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:47:19pm

re: #335 Floral Giraffe

Mything linkths?

We'd be remyth if we left them out.

339 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:47:46pm

re: #336 reine.de.tout

I've suddenly become reading impaired!!
Will Obama care cover it?

340 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:47:50pm

re: #190 wrenchwench

My belief is that there is no Supreme Being. Am I "real"?

I don't know. You don't believe in a personal God. That is to say that you don't believe that god is a person or a being. That doesn't make you an atheist.

Do you believe in an impersonal god(s)? That is to say do you live your life according to a rule/force/virtue that you believe to be universal and necessary to adhere to in order to live a good life and if you don't your life will be very bad? If so that is your impersonal god.

341 LotharBot  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:48:34pm

re: #303 syrius

I can't help those who are so sensitive about possible doubt in their own beliefs. If their belief in the supernatural was solid then why get so defensive.

I didn't downding out of defense of my religion; I did it because I viewed it as a douchey comment not deserving of a positive rating on LGF. The way your comment read, religious people (as a whole) are Dumbfuckistanis. Your comment read like anti-religious dickery to me. I don't mind opposing opinions, but I prefer to discourage comments that strike me as unnecessarily hostile or trollish.

Did I misunderstand? I'll gladly reverse my down vote if I did.

342 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:48:46pm

re: #312 Cato the Elder

re: #314 Aceofwhat?

1. We've already seen what can happen to the price of oil when speculation runs wild. What do you think will happen when the easily available oil starts getting harder to find? The price will go crazy. That oil will be worth more then.
2. So you think we'll save a lot of money be using the local oil than the foreign stuff. When have we shown that we can do anything constructive with our money? We'll find a way to waste it. then, forty years from now, we'll still be trillions in the hole and we'll have squandered a valuable resource.
Stupid my foot.

343 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:49:21pm

I'm thtill thteaming from the previouth thread where I wath accuthed of thniping when I wathn't.

344 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:50:01pm

re: #343 Spare O'Lake

I'm thtill thteaming from the previouth thread where I wath accuthed of thniping when I wathn't.

Just a mythtake, I'm thure!

345 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:50:07pm

re: #341 LotharBot

That's how I took the comment too.

346 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:50:34pm

re: #343 Spare O'Lake

I'm thtill thteaming from the previouth thread where I wath accuthed of thniping when I wathn't.

Don't worry about. Here, have an upding and relax.

347 stevemcg  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:50:41pm

re: #341 LotharBot

You people think I'Mwound too tight?

348 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:51:20pm

re: #346 Dark_Falcon

Don't worry about. Here, have an upding and relax.

Thankth.

349 albusteve  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:52:03pm

re: #340 Liet_Kynes

I don't know. You don't believe in a personal God. That is to say that you don't believe that god is a person or a being. That doesn't make you an atheist.

Do you believe in an impersonal god(s)? That is to say do you live your life according to a rule/force/virtue that you believe to be universal and necessary to adhere to in order to live a good life and if you don't your life will be very bad? If so that is your impersonal god.

whoa....did you make that up?...I've never heard the term impersonal god, but ho w can a life a virture prove an impersonal god?....have you altered the definition of god?

350 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:53:48pm

re: #340 Liet_Kynes

I don't know. You don't believe in a personal God. That is to say that you don't believe that god is a person or a being. That doesn't make you an atheist.

Do you believe in an impersonal god(s)? That is to say do you live your life according to a rule/force/virtue that you believe to be universal and necessary to adhere to in order to live a good life and if you don't your life will be very bad? If so that is your impersonal god.

I believe in myself. Therefore, I'm god.

:P

351 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:54:03pm

re: #342 stevemcg

re: #314 Aceofwhat?

1. We've already seen what can happen to the price of oil when speculation runs wild. What do you think will happen when the easily available oil starts getting harder to find? The price will go crazy. That oil will be worth more then.
2. So you think we'll save a lot of money be using the local oil than the foreign stuff. When have we shown that we can do anything constructive with our money? We'll find a way to waste it. then, forty years from now, we'll still be trillions in the hole and we'll have squandered a valuable resource.
Stupid my foot.

sure...it's a big piggybank. got it.

9_9

352 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:54:13pm

re: #342 stevemcg

Your serious??
We couldn't run out of our OWN oil in 800 years!(Continental USA)
In 40-70 years oil will be a memory for power!
Efficiency and clean is the answer!
HORSEPOWER moves the economy..
Get that from Solar Array and you've won the prize!

353 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:54:33pm

re: #343 Spare O'Lake

What?

354 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:54:44pm

Oh brother. It's not like the homophobic stalkers don't mythapropriate comments here enough already, all the lythping in this thread is gonna blow their "hiding in the closet" minds.

355 SteveMcG  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:55:25pm

re: #354 Slumbering Behemoth

I have to keep wiping my screen.

356 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:55:35pm

re: #342 stevemcg

re: #314 Aceofwhat?

1. We've already seen what can happen to the price of oil when speculation runs wild. What do you think will happen when the easily available oil starts getting harder to find? The price will go crazy. That oil will be worth more then.
2. So you think we'll save a lot of money be using the local oil than the foreign stuff. When have we shown that we can do anything constructive with our money? We'll find a way to waste it. then, forty years from now, we'll still be trillions in the hole and we'll have squandered a valuable resource.
Stupid my foot.

1. We don't know what will happen 20 years from now. Oil is being created by earth's processes all the time, new oil is being created as we speak. Perhaps not in the amounts that will be needed, but in any event, in 20 years there will probably be new technology, new energy sources, these things are being worked on all the time. To try to predict 20 or 30 years out based on the technology and processes of today is not necessarily a reasonable thing to do.

2. What oil money from local oil are you talking about? What do you mean we can do anything constructive with "our" money? Who is this "our"? And did you mean "CAN'T"?

357 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:56:06pm

re: #349 albusteve

whoa...did you make that up?...I've never heard the term impersonal god, but ho w can a life a virture prove an impersonal god?...have you altered the definition of god?

Don't go all Crom on him, now.

358 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:56:32pm

We need some bucket. Bucket haid.

359 LotharBot  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:56:39pm

re: #354 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh brother. It's not like the homophobic stalkers don't mythapropriate comments here enough already, all the lythping in this thread is gonna blow their "hiding in the closet" minds.

I just loooooove your comment! It's so faaaaaabulouth! I clicked on the little heart and everything! Plus I gave you a little green + shaped kiss!

360 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:56:59pm

re: #356 reine.de.tout

What oil money from local oil are you talking about? What do you mean we can do anything constructive with "our" money? Who is this "our"? And did you mean "CAN'T"?

I vote that we do something constructive with our money rather than make silly decisions based on the theory that we "won't do anything constructive with our money".

I'm silly like that.

361 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:57:20pm

re: #353 reloadingisnotahobby

What?

asphinctersayswut.

362 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:57:22pm

re: #359 LotharBot

I just looove your comment! It's so faaabulouth! I clicked on the little heart and everything! Plus I gave you a little green + shaped kiss!

We have a stalker?LOL

363 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:57:26pm

i mythed a punning thread?..............

364 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:57:50pm

re: #360 Aceofwhat?

I vote that we do something constructive with our money rather than make silly decisions based on the theory that we "won't do anything constructive with our money".

I'm silly like that.

I'm silly like that too.
And I still can't figure out who the "we" and "our" is/are (Cato, fix it please)

365 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:58:08pm

re: #354 Slumbering Behemoth

Thilly, we're in the bathement, not the clothet.

366 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:58:16pm

re: #349 albusteve

You missed the memo, Steve. Our Code of Laws that were created for the benefit of society as a whole has now been Deified. They served cake and punch at the coronation party.

367 Racer X  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:58:21pm

re: #312 Cato the Elder

That has to be the stupidest thing I've read all moth.

/fixed.

368 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:58:21pm

re: #361 Spare O'Lake

Ah!!..Yes ..yes!...

369 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:58:43pm

re: #364 reine.de.tout

I'm silly like that too.
And I still can't figure out who the "we" and "our" is/are (Cato, fix it please)

When in doubt, go with the royal - you're the Reine! We are not amused...

370 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:58:55pm

The Sarah who is real

371 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:58:58pm

re: #366 Slumbering Behemoth

You missed the memo, Steve. Our Code of Laws that were created for the benefit of society as a whole has now been Deified. They served cake and punch at the coronation party.

I MYTHED CAKE?!?!?!?

372 albusteve  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:59:10pm

re: #360 Aceofwhat?

I vote that we do something constructive with our money rather than make silly decisions based on the theory that we "won't do anything constructive with our money".

I'm silly like that.

20 years from now we'll be making our own oil...atomic power is the first step toward addiction recovery

373 LotharBot  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:59:27pm

re: #371 Varek Raith

I MYTHED CAKE?!?!?!?

The cake is a lie!

374 SteveMcG  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:59:29pm

re: #352 reloadingisnotahobby

You're probably a little more generous than aI would be about our domestic oil supplies. You're probably a little bit more optimistic about climate change countermeasures than I am.

375 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:59:34pm

re: #371 Varek Raith

I MYTHED CAKE?!?!?!?

That'th FBV'th line.
You thtole it

376 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 5:59:54pm

re: #375 reine.de.tout

That'th FBV'th line.
You thtole it

:P

377 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:00:14pm

re: #371 Varek Raith

I MYTHED CAKE?!?!?!?

And pie! Tho thorry. You thould check your mailths more often.

378 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:00:24pm

re: #371 Varek Raith

unless you are very much mythtaken

379 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:01:01pm

For all of you Tool fans, Mr. Keenan is a vinter:[Link: www.bloodintowine.com...]

380 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:01:20pm

"Hello, I'm Thor".

381 albusteve  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:01:22pm

re: #366 Slumbering Behemoth

You missed the memo, Steve. Our Code of Laws that were created for the benefit of society as a whole has now been Deified. They served cake and punch at the coronation party.

I'm fucked...it's never good enough just to be a decent person, I have to join a club and pay the Wizard my redemption fee

382 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:01:23pm

it theams like etheryone ith talking like Igor throm the DithkWorld books.....

383 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:01:36pm

I COUNTR UR PUNS WIF LOLCAT

384 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:01:38pm

re: #354 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh brother. It's not like the homophobic stalkers don't mythapropriate comments here enough already, all the lythping in this thread is gonna blow their "hiding in the closet" minds.

No, they'll just go into another of their hate frenzies. They'll call me names, claim Ludwig is crazy, insult Cato, etc. It's so predictable it's boring.

385 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:01:45pm

re: #363 wozzablog

i mythed a punning thread?...

No, you mythed a thpitting thread.

386 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:01:53pm

re: #377 Floral Giraffe

And pie! Tho thorry. You thould check your mailths more often.

Do you remember the guy who did "Talk Like a Pirate Day"?
And he went on and forevermore continued the "Talk Like a Pirate" thingy?
Got on my nerves, really something awful.

387 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:02:52pm

re: #379 prairiefire

Just don't drink it. Two eyes on any human head is enough.

388 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:03:29pm

re: #386 reine.de.tout

OK. I'll thtop. Last one.
Talk like a pirate day is in June, I think.

389 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:03:47pm

re: #383 Varek Raith

I COUNTR UR PUNS WIF LOLCAT

FVB CAN HAZ PIE?

390 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:03:50pm

ok..... either

Floral Giraffe, reine.de.tout, Slumbering Behemoth or Varek Raith


gave me my 3000th kharma point :-)

thanks y'all

391 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:03:52pm

re: #388 Floral Giraffe

OK. I'll thtop. Last one.
Talk like a pirate day is in June, I think.

NO!
That wasn't a hint.
LOL.
It just brought back a memory.

392 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:04:07pm

re: #387 Slumbering Behemoth

Just don't drink it. Two eyes on any human head is enough.

You've obviously never experienced 360° fov.
:P

393 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:04:08pm

re: #388 Floral Giraffe

OK. I'll thtop. Last one.
Talk like a pirate day is in June, I think.

Sep 13th, maybe. Will check.

394 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:04:08pm

re: #379 prairiefire

For all of you Tool fans, Mr. Keenan is a vinter:[Link: www.bloodintowine.com...]

Why can't we not be sober?
I just want to start this over.
Why can't we drink forever.
I just want to start things over.

395 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:04:19pm

re: #390 wozzablog

ok... either

Floral Giraffe, reine.de.tout, Slumbering Behemoth or Varek Raith

gave me my 3000th kharma point :-)

thanks y'all

WOOT! Are you going to get the blender or the toaster?

396 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:04:37pm

re: #386 reine.de.tout

Do you remember the guy who did "Talk Like a Pirate Day"?
And he went on and forevermore continued the "Talk Like a Pirate" thingy?
Got on my nerves, really something awful.

Loflyer!
LOL

397 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:05:25pm

re: #393 Decatur Deb

Sep 13th, maybe. Will check.

Sep 19th.

[Link: www.talklikeapirate.com...]

398 Lidane  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:05:31pm

re: #386 reine.de.tout

Do you remember the guy who did "Talk Like a Pirate Day"?
And he went on and forevermore continued the "Talk Like a Pirate" thingy?
Got on my nerves, really something awful.

If you want something to really irritate you, it's possible to change the language on Facebook to "English (Pirate)". You can also set it for "English (Upside Down)".

Definitely makes boring status updates that much more interesting. Heh.

399 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:05:47pm

re: #395 Floral Giraffe

i hate the fracking toasters......... (sorry, battlestar flashback)

I'll have the blender........... and the stunning model next to the cheap cardboard scoreboard...........

400 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:06:19pm

re: #398 Lidane

If you want something to really irritate you, it's possible to change the language on Facebook to "English (Pirate)". You can also set it for "English (Upside Down)".

Definitely makes boring status updates that much more interesting. Heh.

Where - settings?
I've got to check that out.
It's time I drove some folks nuts.

401 SteveMcG  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:06:20pm

re: #356 reine.de.tout

Starting at the end, the reason I think we CAN'T use our money productively is that we are 11 trillion in the hole and sinking fast. That's why I am pessimistic about our capacity to use our money wisely.
New tecnologies are expensive. The oil recovered with these new technologies will be expensive, which makes drillable oil more profitable.
I also think you are mistaken about the renewability of oil. Everything I've read over the years indicates it takes eons for oil to form. Must have overlooked something.

402 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:06:21pm

From the creators of "The Wire" comes "Treme, about NOLA after Katrina:[Link: www.hbo.com...]
It's getting good reviews, course.

403 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:07:15pm

re: #400 reine.de.tout

Where - settings?
I've got to check that out.
It's time I drove some folks nuts.

as long as you're tightly wound, you might as well get something done/

404 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:07:26pm

re: #400 reine.de.tout

Where - settings?
I've got to check that out.
It's time I drove some folks nuts.

OK, English (Pirate) isn't listed right now.
Maybe in September.

405 Lidane  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:07:39pm

re: #400 reine.de.tout

Where - settings?
I've got to check that out.
It's time I drove some folks nuts.

Scroll down to the very bottom of the page and click where your language setting is. It should be "English (US)" if you're here in the States. When you click on it, it brings up the language options. Then just click on the one you want. :)

406 Lidane  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:07:55pm

re: #404 reine.de.tout

OK, English (Pirate) isn't listed right now.
Maybe in September.

Oh, it's listed. I just saw it.

407 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:08:35pm

re: #401 SteveMcG

Starting at the end, the reason I think we CAN'T use our money productively is that we are 11 trillion in the hole and sinking fast. That's why I am pessimistic about our capacity to use our money wisely.
New tecnologies are expensive. The oil recovered with these new technologies will be expensive, which makes drillable oil more profitable.
I also think you are mistaken about the renewability of oil. Everything I've read over the years indicates it takes eons for oil to form. Must have overlooked something.

Of course it takes eons for oil to form.

But 'eons' didn't start in year "X". It's continuous.

408 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:08:43pm

re: #401 SteveMcG

New tecnologies are expensive. The oil recovered with these new technologies will be expensive, which makes drillable oil more profitable.

Stated differently, we should procure our oil in order of (least expensive to obtain) -> (most expensive to obtain)

For some reason, you have the order backwards...

409 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:08:49pm

re: #403 Aceofwhat?

as long as you're tightly wound, you might as well get something done/

LOL.
No kidding.

410 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:09:59pm

What ye be havin' 'gainst buccanneers???

411 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:10:04pm

re: #400 reine.de.tout

Where - settings?
I've got to check that out.
It's time I drove some folks nuts.

You don't need to change any settings, you just need to use the proper keyboard.

412 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:10:14pm

re: #406 Lidane

Oh, it's listed. I just saw it.

Ah!
Found it.
I was thinking they must know I'm an old cranky tightly wound biddy and wouldn't be interested in it.

413 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:10:29pm

re: #411 Slumbering Behemoth

Lol.

414 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:11:06pm

re: #411 Slumbering Behemoth

You don't need to change any settings, you just need to use the proper keyboard.

LOL.

415 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:11:42pm

re: #410 Varek Raith

What ye be havin' 'gainst buccanneers???

Or,

WUT YE BE HAVIN GAINST LOLPIRATEZ???

416 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:12:26pm

re: #410 Varek Raith

What ye be havin' 'gainst buccanneers???

What do buccanneers be havin' 'gainst dental hygiene??

417 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:12:30pm

re: #410 Varek Raith

Inflation, that's what. A working family can not survive on a buck an ear. The exchange rate should be five bucks an ear, to keep up with our economic times.

418 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:13:31pm
419 SteveMcG  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:13:36pm

re: #408 Aceofwhat?

You haven't dissuaded me that domestic oil will be worth more to our grandkids than it will be to us. Anyway, I'm off to take the kids for ice cream before the weather gets too warm.

420 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:15:39pm

Night, you planet shaggers!.
:)

421 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:17:27pm

re: #419 SteveMcG

You haven't dissuaded me that domestic oil will be worth more to our grandkids than it will be to us. Anyway, I'm off to take the kids for ice cream before the weather gets too warm.

Well...won't everything? Inflation is funny like that.

But if you meant "it will be worth more even taking inflation into account", then i'd say maybe. The faster we switch to alternatives, the less it'll be worth.

Why don't we stop sending so much money to the Sauds in the short term and tell our kids they won't need to burn the oil in 60 years instead?

422 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:18:54pm

re: #305 Macha

/ isn't a myth a female moth?

I think this is where it started.
Now Macha, GO TO YOUR ROOM!

423 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:19:05pm

re: #301 Cato the Elder


The word 'truism' has an actual meaning, Walter. The meaning it has specifically excludes profundity. It means something that is obviously and self-evidently true.

I'm not sure why you feel your abstruse insults are going to have any effect on me, either.

424 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:19:53pm

re: #401 SteveMcG

You remind me of a certain youthful libertarian I knew once.

425 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:21:57pm

re: #388 Floral Giraffe

OK. I'll thtop. Last one.
Talk like a pirate day is in June, I think.

September.

426 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:22:52pm

re: #425 Stanley Sea

September.

Sept. 19th.

Mark yerrrr calenderrs.

427 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:55:35pm

re: #423 Obdicut

The word 'truism' has an actual meaning, Walter. The meaning it has specifically excludes profundity. It means something that is obviously and self-evidently true.

I'm not sure why you feel your abstruse insults are going to have any effect on me, either.

Funny, you going on about "actual meaning", when our first date was spent arguing over your juvenile understanding of the textual indeterminacy concept.

Are you trying to get me to ask you out again or something?

428 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:56:41pm

re: #427 Cato the Elder

Oh, and I'm not Walter. Calling out some other guy's name in the heat of passion will get you nowhere.

429 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 7:18:23pm

re: #192 m0nkeyb0y


I have been toying with a theory that such spritual traits might be our vague perception of our parrallel extra-dimensional selves.

LVQ is correct. Advanced science isn't logical positivist anyway -- for example logical positivism doesn't work for quantum mechanics.

I would agree with you about the "parallel extra-dimensional selves". Christianity would say that we exist not only within the space-time dimension but also within a supernatural dimension - humanity is sort of a dimensional composite of the space-time and supernatural. The idea that you are toying with is also in philosophy. You should look into Christian Platonism - it will give you background and a philosophical language to branch out with. A History of Philosophy Vol 2 Medieval Philosophy by Copleston would be a good start.

re: #199 Obdicut

I've never understood the attraction of belief in a god who created a universe that was somehow fundamentally incomprehensible. It paints god in such a crappy light.

Can you explain philosophy to a cat? No. How about astrophysics? No. Those things are incomprehensible to a cat, it is beyond its capacity to understand them.

It is not that Christians say that we cannot understand the universe, for we clearly say that we can understand the universe, but we also say that comprehending the universe often goes beyond our capacity to understand. We see in a mirror darkly and all that.

re: #349 albusteve

whoa...did you make that up?...I've never heard the term impersonal god, but ho w can a life a virture prove an impersonal god?...have you altered the definition of god?

Nope didn't make that up. You can also find it under the term "non-personal god", "ground of all being" etc.. When we talk about an "impersonal god" we are talking about a god who is not a person. All that is a "god" is that "thing" to which life is ordered and governed by. The idea that god is a person is not necessary. It is also not necessary to say that god always existed when dealing with a definition of what god is. If one holds, say the virtue of love, as the suprime thing towards which all life is ordered, then that person does in fact believe in something, just not a person.

Problem is that basic definition of what "god" is, is too colored by us being in Western society -- everything has been pre-conditioned in a Judo-Christian light. Thus "athiests" tend to reject primarily the Christian concept of God without looking beyond that to a broader philosophical definition.

430 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 7:28:23pm

re: #429 Liet_Kynes

Can you explain philosophy to a cat? No. How about astrophysics? No. Those things are incomprehensible to a cat, it is beyond its capacity to understand them.

We're not cats.


It is not that Christians say that we cannot understand the universe, for we clearly say that we can understand the universe, but we also say that comprehending the universe often goes beyond our capacity to understand. We see in a mirror darkly and all that.

No. You unnecessarily claim there are complications where there are not.

Have you read Darwin's Dangerous Idea yet?

431 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 7:34:22pm

re: #427 Cato the Elder

Funny, you going on about "actual meaning", when our first date was spent arguing over your juvenile understanding of the textual indeterminacy concept.

Are you trying to get me to ask you out again or something?

Cato, you're really never going to make the slightest dent in my opinion of my capacity to understand texts. I've lived in the academic world since I was a kid, I've met and talked with some incredibly smart people. If it pleases you to think that I'm some muddle-headed moron who's able to simply pass himself off as intelligent by dint of mimicry, feel free, but you're saying it for your benefit, not mine.

And our first conversation was whether any text could be read literally-- it was not about whether not words have meanings. Those two subjects are several metaphorical miles apart. Those meanings of the words can change with context, can warp and dance and it's a beautiful thing, but words, at the end, have meaning. Truisms are, by definition, not profound. There is no usage of truism whereby it can become profound. It is like saying an interesting banality; the only way it makes sense is as a negation, or it's an oxymoron.

Your weird tendency to make constant sexual references is mildly creepy, but it's also not going to bug me out. Nor will you saying you're going to ignore me yet again.

You really ought to read the Dennett book, if only to understand why the previous arguments you made are insufficient.

432 Liet_Kynes  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 8:46:39pm

re: #430 Obdicut

No. You unnecessarily claim there are complications where there are not.

Have you read Darwin's Dangerous Idea yet?

Right, we are not cats. Not being a cat doesn't make us able to comprehend the universe though.

There are complications. We exist as parts of a complex system, and that prevents us from comprehending the totality of the system. It is sort of like trying to see the blind spot in your field of vision where your optic nerve connects to your retina. You cannot do it. As such, part of reality is cannot be comprehended by a human. Another way to look at it is that our brains think linearly. Such a mode of thinking limits our cognition and comprehension of the world around us. That is without getting into the metaphysical problems.

No I haven't read Darwin's Dangerous Idea yet, but looking through the book, I have read much of what it draws from.

Out of curiosity, how would you say humanity's drive to give meaning to things by creating stories, fits in with what is presented in DDI? If the drive to create stories and meaning out of life through religion is a product of natural evolution, then to "revolutionize and scrap that philosophical baggage" is to necessarily go against the evolutionary process, and attempt which ultimately will be fruitless as humanity has evolved to the point where it is "religious". Evolution cannot be undone by philosophical reasoning because the drive to be "religious" is imprinted on one's genes and is not something than one can be educated out of.

Whether or not there is a god(s) it doesn't matter for evolution has brought us to the point where to be human is to be religious. It is part of our genes after all. (just teasing you)

433 philosophus invidius  Fri, Apr 9, 2010 9:12:09pm

This one is my favorite. Fossilized human finger!

[Link: www.bible.ca...]

From the website:

Some who claim to be scientists will immediately say, "It’s just a rock." They "know" humans did not live with dinosaurs, so it can’t be a fossil finger, no matter how much it looks like a finger.

This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

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