Video: Palin’s Anti-Science Word Salad

Politics • Views: 4,278

In her speech yesterday to the Southern Republican Leadership Conference, anti-science dim bulb Sarah Palin referred to the CRU scandal as “Gore-gate” (even though Al Gore had absolutely nothing to do with it), and said there was “snake oil science involved over the data collection there,” a strangely garbled sentence ending with her trademark “there.” (Which never seems to describe a real place.)

The scientists involved in “Climategate” have been vindicated by two independent investigations now. But cynical, stupid people like Sarah Palin are still lying about it, and pumping up the GOP base with nonsense they know is not true.

The GOP is indeed the “Party of Saying No to Reality.”

Here’s Palin serving up her childish, dishonest word salad to a star-struck audience. Of course she has to get in a joke about “inventing the Internet.” “Hurr hurr hurr,” goes the audience.

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665 comments
1 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:47:40am

What's so sad is that she's saying Americans will invent the next energy source at the same time she's trying to undermine science.

2 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:47:52am

Creationist religious fanatic homophobe Rick Santorum is now speaking. It's on C-SPAN.

"Please don't ever question my intent to do what's right for those little babies."

By which he means blastocysts.

3 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:48:02am

It's pretty infuriating to me that in the past year, criminals have caused such hell for scientists and had such an effect on public opinion in regards to AGW, and that criminals have gotten Congress to pass an unconstitutional bill of attainder against an organization, based on lies.

Seeing how easily our political system can be jerked around by assholes who don't mind violating the spirit and letter of the law makes me angry.

4 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:48:18am

CRU = snake oil = kill the economy = HCR = foreign doctors in the ER = my son Trig = DETH PANILS!!!1!

Woot!

5 darthstar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:48:50am

Aww...Raabe, the Munchkin coroner from the Wizard of Oz, is "really most sincerely dead"

Sorry to go off topic at the top, but this is a Palin thread, so I suppose I can beg forgiveness for this one.

6 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:49:45am

Santorum just took a question from a woman who says she's filled with rage over having to "press 1 for English."

7 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:50:55am

"Word Salad" is the absolute best description of Simple Sarah's speeches. Add a side of lie dressing and we are complete.

8 webevintage  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:51:13am

There really are no words to express the disdain I feel for this grifter.
She offends me as a woman, a mother and as a thinking American.

While she says stupid things I don't think she is "stupid" at all.
Maybe not well-educated, but she has some killer instincts when it comes to what the folks who pay her bills want to here. She has figured out how to use her looks and her body and her "awww shucks, I'm just a mom" persona to get power and to part morons from their money.

It is fascinating that there are thinking people out there who take her for anything but the con artist she is.

And I want to stab my eyes out anytime she gets snotty about the President. She makes me feel stabby....

9 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:51:20am

If there's anyone who's even more repulsive than Palin, it's Rick Santorum. This guy should have been run out of Washington years ago.

10 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:51:39am

re: #6 Charles

I would really love to see anyone who expresses anger over that, or touts English as the national language, be given the citizenship test. Not to actually kick them out of the country, given that that would be all kinds of unconstitutional, but to maybe, just maybe show them that immigrants actually are better citizens than they are.

11 darthstar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:51:58am

re: #6 Charles

Santorum just took a question from a woman who says she's filled with rage over having to "press 1 for English."

The woman probably can't operate a telephone.

12 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:52:29am

Undermining science starts early. My genius niece and nephew get picked on at school for being nerds. My niece wants to be an evolutionary geneticist like her uncle.

13 webevintage  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:52:57am

re: #9 Charles

If there's anyone who's even more repulsive than Palin, it's Rick Santorum. This guy should have been run out of Washington years ago.

Agreed.
He's another person who's continued time in the political spotlight just boggles the mind.

14 darthstar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:53:19am

re: #8 webevintage

There really are no words to express the disdain I feel for this grifter.

I'm glad I'm not the only perso who refers to Palin as a 'grifter'...I just wish some media people would start doing it...

15 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:53:29am

re: #10 Obdicut

I would really love to see anyone who expresses anger over that, or touts English as the national language, be given the citizenship test. Not to actually kick them out of the country, given that that would be all kinds of unconstitutional, but to maybe, just maybe show them that immigrants actually are better citizens than they are.

The ones who rant about how much they want Americans to speak only English are the same people who proudly mispronounce "nuclear" as "nucular."

16 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:54:00am

Burn the books!
/Tea Party.

17 cliffster  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:54:01am

re: #6 Charles

Santorum just took a question from a woman who says she's filled with rage over having to "press 1 for English."

I almost want this angry lady to get what I assume to be her wish, so she can see what the logical conclusion of her way of thinking is.

18 cliffster  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:55:08am

re: #10 Obdicut

I would really love to see anyone who expresses anger over that, or touts English as the national language, be given the citizenship test. Not to actually kick them out of the country, given that that would be all kinds of unconstitutional, but to maybe, just maybe show them that immigrants actually are better citizens than they are.

Is there a "taking shit for granted" section? They would ace that part.

19 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 10:57:29am

OT:

Update on the plane crash that killed Polish president Lech Kaczynski

.....
"The Polish presidential plane did not make it to the runway while landing. Tentative findings indicate that it hit the treetops and fell apart. Nobody has survived the disaster," Smolensk governor Sergei Anufriev told the Russia 24 news channel.

The Polish government will hold an emergency meeting later today. Officials said the head of the Polish army, the governor of the central bank and the head of the presidential administration were also on board the plane, as well as the families of other senior officials.

"The plane caught fire after the crash," said a Polish foreign ministry spokesman in Warsaw. "Teams began attempting to pull out passengers from the badly damaged airplane."

The pilot was told Smolensk airport was closed because of thick fog, according to the news agency Interfax. He was offered a choice of landing instead at either Moscow or Minsk, the capital of Belarus, but decided to continue with the original flight plan to Smolensk.

The pilot made three unsuccessful attempts to land before the crash. On the fourth try the plane fell apart, Interfax said, citing officials at Smolensk's interior ministry.

Russia's foreign ministry confirmed the cause of the air catastrophe was bad weather. "According to provisional information the crash happened because the plane failed to land at the military airport near Smolensk in conditions of severe fog," one official said.

How unfortunate. The pilot tried to land in heavy fog at a closed airport.

20 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:00:07am

This of course comes from the same woman who mocked fruit fly research. The thing that Palin does that annoys the hell out of me is she acts almost as if she's proud to be anti intellectual and of course her fan base eats it right up.

21 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:02:00am

re: #19 NJDhockeyfan

I hope that pilot had no children. The shame of that will be pretty grave.

I can't imagine what the mood is in Poland right now. Has there ever been such a mass death of leaders in a country, outside of war or revolution?

22 jamesfirecat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:06:18am

So now we finally know why she quit being governor, she was run out of town by the environmentalists... while I can understand why they'd want to now we in the lower 48 have to deal with her....

23 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:06:56am

This whole thing just fits perfectly with my theory that wing-nuts don't hate progressives/liberals out of any dedication or loyalty to conservative ideology.

It's just that they've been told to hate progressives/liberals. Period. And so they do. And if trying to do something about Global Warming is considered a progressive/liberal issue, then they're gonna hate that, too.

But, what I'm gonna love to see, is how they're going to try and explain their way out of their stance on this once they've been proven wrong.

24 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:07:57am

The ESA? She sued the ESA?

Which one? The European Space Agency? The Entertainment Software Association? The Entomological Society of America?

I'm betting it was the Endangered Species Act. How do you sue an Act? Well, you don't. You sue the agency that manages the Act, in this case probably the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency. Run by evil Progs.

The citizens of Alaska voted twice to ban the "sport" of hunting wolves from aircraft, and twice this smirking beeyotch vetoed the will of the people.

As for who will invent the next big energy source, it might be an American - or an immigrant from India or Thailand. Or a scientist in China or Russia. Or a kid in a magnet school in Madagascar. Phony patriotism makes me puke.

This woman is so cheerily poisonous it goes beyond words.

Woot!

25 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:08:05am

Every single politician speaking at the SRLC is a creationist.

All of them.

26 charlz  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:08:22am

The part of the Internet that she probably thinks of when she refers to the Internet, the World-wide Web, in fact wasn't 'invented' by an American.

27 jamesfirecat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:08:30am

re: #14 darthstar

I'm glad I'm not the only perso who refers to Palin as a 'grifter'...I just wish some media people would start doing it...


Jon Stewart has your back!


[Link: jezebel.com...]

28 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:08:30am

We've had 2 languages spoken in Louisiana for a couple of hundred years.
The.World.Does.Not.Fall.Apart.

29 Aye Pod  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:09:06am

I get the distinct impression from this that Palin is a spluttering moron, and all that stuff.

30 pingjockey  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:09:44am

re: #25 Charles

I saw part of the speakers list on a link someone put up. They're all creationists? Gaaah.

31 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:10:10am

re: #30 pingjockey

I saw part of the speakers list on a link someone put up. They're all creationists? Gaaah.

All of them.

32 jamesfirecat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:10:27am

re: #28 reine.de.tout

We've had 2 languages spoken in Louisiana for a couple of hundred years.
The.World.Does.Not.Fall.Apart.

Two languages in one head? Good lord man no one can live at that speed!

But the Dutch speak four languages and smoke marijuana!

Yes well... they're cheating!

33 avanti  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:10:39am

re: #8 webevintage

There really are no words to express the disdain I feel for this grifter.
She offends me as a woman, a mother and as a thinking American.

While she says stupid things I don't think she is "stupid" at all.
Maybe not well-educated, but she has some killer instincts when it comes to what the folks who pay her bills want to here. She has figured out how to use her looks and her body and her "awww shucks, I'm just a mom" persona to get power and to part morons from their money.

It is fascinating that there are thinking people out there who take her for anything but the con artist she is.

And I want to stab my eyes out anytime she gets snotty about the President. She makes me feel stabby...

The sad thing is, I truly fell she'd never had been popular if she was 60, over weight and a lot brighter. She talks in little sound bites, and I've never heard a real policy speech from her.
"Drill baby drill" and "You betcha" is getting old.

34 blueraven  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:10:48am

re: #28 reine.de.tout

We've had 2 languages spoken in Louisiana for a couple of hundred years.
The.World.Does.Not.Fall.Apart.

Same here in Texas. What is wrong with these people? They want our kids to be narrow minded and uneducated.

35 Lidane  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:11:55am

re: #28 reine.de.tout

We've had 2 languages spoken in Louisiana for a couple of hundred years.
The.World.Does.Not.Fall.Apart.

It's been that way here in Texas since forever, and we're doing just fine.

I always laugh at the English Only folks here. They're funny and hopelessly deluded. We're on the border with Mexico. Anyone who thinks that there's even a chance of English Only here is an idiot.

36 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:12:45am

What, exactly, is the exact reason behind the wing-nut's stance on Global Warming; their claiming that it's all phony? I don't get it. Is it simply because they're getting campaign money from the co.'s that would have to spend money changing their structure so that they don't contribute to the destruction of the environment? Is that all there is to it?

37 pingjockey  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:14:06am

re: #31 Charles
I just went and did the google fu and got a list and a bio. I weep for my party. I have no idea for the first time since I was 18 if I will be voting this year or in the near future. Stupidity and willful ignorance are not virtues.

38 The Left  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:14:09am

re: #2 Charles

Creationist religious fanatic homophobe Rick Santorum is now speaking. It's on C-SPAN.

"Please don't ever question my intent to do what's right for those little babies."

By which he means blastocysts.

Oh Rick. We don't question his fondness for blastocysts. Just for human beings, particularly Vagina-Americans and gay people.

39 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:15:06am

Hm.
I'd better bow out.
I've got a fondness for blastocytes, myself.
Have a good day, all.

40 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:15:07am

Does anyone else find it more than just a tad ironic that this meeting-of-the-minds is being held in New Orleans?

41 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:16:14am

re: #40 Sigma_x

Does anyone else find it more than just a tad ironic that this meeting-of-the-minds is being held in New Orleans?

Why ironic?

42 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:16:28am
The great energy innovation that will replace conventional resources, it's just not here yet, it's not here yet. And until that day we need our domestic resources to meet our needs.

-Sarah Palin

Sure Sarah, drill baby drill right? Even if all on land and offshore reserves amount to less than 5 years of our consumption and will take up to 20 years to fully develop. Talk about selling the rubes a pipe dream...

That alternative, when it is discovered, it will be here, and it will be Americans who find it.

In other words we should do absolutely nothing to improve the distribution grid, cut pollution, increase efficiency, or supplement our existing energy generation sources with renewable methods until something magically like "cold fusion" is invented. This is nothing more than a speech in support of the status quo and the oil companies.

Jesus wept...

43 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:18:41am

re: #41 NJDhockeyfan

Oh, I don't know - maybe because a republican president and the crony-chimps he installed at FEMA shat all over N.O. in the aftermath of Katrina?

44 The Left  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:18:46am

re: #8 webevintage

There really are no words to express the disdain I feel for this grifter.
She offends me as a woman, a mother and as a thinking American.

While she says stupid things I don't think she is "stupid" at all.
Maybe not well-educated, but she has some killer instincts when it comes to what the folks who pay her bills want to here. She has figured out how to use her looks and her body and her "awww shucks, I'm just a mom" persona to get power and to part morons from their money.

It is fascinating that there are thinking people out there who take her for anything but the con artist she is.

And I want to stab my eyes out anytime she gets snotty about the President. She makes me feel stabby...

Totally agree.

45 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:18:58am

re: #42 ausador

SpaceJesus wept laughed his a** off...

46 webevintage  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:19:30am

re: #33 avanti

The sad thing is, I truly fell she'd never had been popular if she was 60, over weight and a lot brighter. She talks in little sound bites, and I've never heard a real policy speech from her.
"Drill baby drill" and "You betcha" is getting old.

But of course, what do we know?
From what I have been told that the reason I have such a stabby feeling each time I see or hear this woman is because she pro-life and did not abort that DS kid the way I (being a Lib) would want her too or because she is a better mom then me because she had more kids and they are all turning out so well or that she is attractive & I must be a fat fatty or because she loves GOD and I don't or that I am just JEALOUS because she is SARAH and I am not.

The thing is that until Ma Palin opened her mouth at the Republican Convention and used that bitchy voice to sneer at Obama's work as a community organizer I was kinda jazzed about a woman VP candidate and thought "wow, bold move McCain".

47 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:20:00am

re: #9 Charles

If there's anyone who's even more repulsive than Palin, it's Rick Santorum. This guy should have been run out of Washington years ago.

Happily he was run out of Washington years ago, 2007 to be exact. You can't blame him if he's just trying to maintain his Republican bona fides, utter bonkerism by another name.

48 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:20:53am

re: #38 iceweasel

Oh Rick. We don't question his fondness for blastocysts. Just for human beings, particularly Vagina-Americans and gay people.

One small quibble, a blastocyst is a human being in the strictest sense of the term, in other words it has human chromosomes and exists. What it is not (yet) is a person, it has no sentience. I can whip up a ven diagram for anybody who needs one.

49 pingjockey  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:21:07am

re: #43 Sigma_x
You do know of course, by law FEMA is not allowed to operate in a disaster area until the Governor of said area formally asks for federal aid in writing? The mayor, the guv, and yes all the way up the chain failed. But blaming all of Katrina on GWB is not correct.

50 pingjockey  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:21:33am

Must go haul groceries!

51 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:21:43am

re: #43 Sigma_x

I'd say a much better point would be that French Creole has been spoken there forever and no damage has come to the Republic from it, other than a rather uninspired X-Man.

52 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:22:13am

re: #48 goddamnedfrank

By that definition of 'person', a placenta is a person.

53 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:22:25am

re: #48 goddamnedfrank

One small quibble, a blastocyst is a human being in the strictest sense of the term, in other words it has human chromosomes and exists. What it is not (yet) is a person, it has no sentience. I can whip up a ven diagram for anybody who needs one.

A blastocyst is a potential human being, nobody denies that. But one thing it is not is a "baby."

54 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:23:06am

re: #49 pingjockey

You do know of course, by law FEMA is not allowed to operate in a disaster area until the Governor of said area formally asks for federal aid in writing? The mayor, the guv, and yes all the way up the chain failed. But blaming all of Katrina on GWB is not correct.

I'm so glad you pointed that out to me. Because I was sure that Bush called up the very storm itself.

55 allegro  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:23:20am

re: #48 goddamnedfrank

One small quibble, a blastocyst is a human being in the strictest sense of the term, in other words it has human chromosomes and exists. What it is not (yet) is a person, it has no sentience. I can whip up a ven diagram for anybody who needs one

.

A blastocyst is a blastocyst. It is no more a human being than a skin cell is, which, by your logic of having human chromosomes and existing should be defined.

56 Racer X  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:24:04am

re: #54 Sigma_x

I'm so glad you pointed that out to me. Because I was sure that Bush called up the very storm itself.

We could tell.

57 The Left  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:24:24am

re: #48 goddamnedfrank

One small quibble, a blastocyst is a human being in the strictest sense of the term, in other words it has human chromosomes and exists. What it is not (yet) is a person, it has no sentience. I can whip up a ven diagram for anybody who needs one.

Can't we use 'human' for 'having human chromosomes and existing', and reserve 'human being' for human beings, i.e., persons and the born?

Once we start using 'human being' for blastocyst we start talking about blastocysts as persons, in my opinion. And all such views lead us to start regarding actual persons, i.e., pregnant women, as fetal containers.

58 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:24:29am

re: #52 Obdicut

By that definition of 'person', a placenta is a person.

Placentas are self aware?

59 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:24:46am

Palin was willing to sacrifice her daughter's future happiness by making her marry that loser Levi, a one-night-standing redneck creep whom she knew to be unsuitable husband material, for the sake of pimping Bristol and the rest of the fam as a tradition-loving, God-fearing, baby-having, marriage-honoring All American Clan.

Nuff sed.

60 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:25:04am

Mike Pence is so shiny.

His whole speech boils down to, "Please, wing-nuts - don't stop giving money to the RNC. We're not RINO's, I swear!"

61 allegro  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:26:04am

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

Placentas are self aware?

62 allegro  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:26:49am

re: #61 allegro

Oops. The rest...

Blastocysts are? Congrats. You just negated your own argument.

63 The Left  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:27:00am

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

Placentas are self aware?

If self-awareness is a criterion for personhood you're going to get the result that a lot of animals are persons, and a lot of human beings are not.

64 darthstar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:27:32am

re: #59 Cato the Elder

Palin was willing to sacrifice her daughter's future happiness by making her marry that loser Levi, a one-night-standing redneck creep whom she knew to be unsuitable husband material, for the sake of pimping Bristol and the rest of the fam as a tradition-loving, God-fearing, baby-having, marriage-honoring All American Clan.

Nuff sed.


Well said.

65 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:29:45am

re: #53 Charles

A blastocyst is a potential human being, nobody denies that. But one thing it is not is a "baby."

I thought that was my point, that it is not (yet) a person. I'm simply saying that to discuss "human beings" when the term applies equally to legal non-person entities such as a blastocyst or post brain death Terri Schiavo isn't properly descriptive, and really misses the point. We call a baby a baby because it has become a person and is no longer a mere human being. George Tiller helped prevent terrible mockeries of personhood, such as present in cases of anencephaly. George Tiller was a hero.

66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:30:21am

re: #21 Obdicut

Very good point about the Pilot's family.

Imagine the horror; our President, his wife, 20 top advisors, and Neil Armstrong are on board...

That, my friends, is what just happened to Poland.

67 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:31:49am

re: #49 pingjockey

You do know of course, by law FEMA is not allowed to operate in a disaster area until the Governor of said area formally asks for federal aid in writing? The mayor, the guv, and yes all the way up the chain failed. But blaming all of Katrina on GWB is not correct.

Mayor 'Chocolate City' Nagin certainly could have made a phone call for help from his hotel room in Texas. You have to wonder why the chain of command wasn't blasted like the president was.

68 allegro  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:32:21am

re: #65 goddamnedfrank

Upding for...

George Tiller was a hero.

69 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:32:27am

re: #6 Charles

Santorum just took a question from a woman who says she's filled with rage over having to "press 1 for English."

Typical 'let them eat cake' left coast elitism! Some of us in Fly-over country don't have fancy robot phones with buttons. We have sensible American dials, like the founding fathers used. If dials on my phone were good enough for Elvis and my favorite founding fathers*, they should be good enough for you fancy pants hippies.

Dial 0 for an operator! //


*that would be all of them.

70 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:32:49am

re: #66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Very good point about the Pilot's family.

Imagine the horror; our President, his wife, 20 top advisors, and Neil Armstrong are on board...

That, my friends, is what just happened to Poland.

Good thing European countries are actually run from Brussels.

Just sayin'.

71 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:33:27am

re: #67 NJDhockeyfan

Mayor 'Chocolate City' Nagin certainly could have made a phone call for help from his hotel room in Texas. You have to wonder why the chain of command wasn't blasted like the president was.

Good point, but fuck you for the "chocolate city" ref.

72 swamprat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:33:42am

re: #67 NJDhockeyfan

Mayor 'Chocolate City' Nagin certainly could have made a phone call for help from his hotel room in Texas. You have to wonder why the chain of command wasn't blasted like the president was.

I don't wonder.

73 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:33:46am

What in the F_CK is the republican's game plan - to pull a Jedi mind-trick and somehow try and convince the American public that we're NOT better off than we were 2 years ago?

In the past year and a half, Obama and the Democrats have stabilized the banks, the economy, and the major car companies; they passed health care reform that adds thirty million people and cuts the deficit long term while getting rid of the worst abuses of the insurance companies; they extended the solvency of Medicare for a decade; they're drawing down troops in Iraq; they're making progress with green energy; there has not been one successful terrorist attack on American soil; they’ve just signed a nuclear arms reduction treaty and re-examined our use of military weapons and they're making great progress on the global stage. Hell, the DOW is up over 3,000 since we got rid of the republicans.

Are yet here they are - "Vote the bums out! Impeach Obama!"

Who is blind enough to fall for this?

"These are not the droids you're looking for - move along."

74 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:33:53am

re: #67 NJDhockeyfan

Mayor 'Chocolate City' Nagin certainly could have made a phone call for help from his hotel room in Texas. You have to wonder why the chain of command wasn't blasted like the president was.

Local and State gubment was a major fair for Katrina.

75 KingKenrod  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:35:19am

re: #36 Sigma_x

What, exactly, is the exact reason behind the wing-nut's stance on Global Warming; their claiming that it's all phony? I don't get it. Is it simply because they're getting campaign money from the co.'s that would have to spend money changing their structure so that they don't contribute to the destruction of the environment? Is that all there is to it?

The root is distrust of secular central authority - they think global warming is a plot to centralize more power in Washington, and eventually a world body like the UN.

Almost everything that upsets the right is a "loss of control" issue.

76 avanti  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:35:49am

re: #6 Charles

Santorum just took a question from a woman who says she's filled with rage over having to "press 1 for English."

Speaking of immigrants, the guy that helped subdue the shoe bomber gets his citizenship.

hero.

77 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:35:57am

re: #71 Cato the Elder

Good point, but fuck you for the "chocolate city" ref.

Ray Nagin's term, not mine. Fuck you back.

78 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:36:10am

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

Placentas are self aware?

Sorry, I meant by that definition a placenta is a human being.

79 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:36:29am

re: #74 Cannadian Club Akbar

Local and State gubment was a major fair for Katrina.

FAIL, not fair, PIMF.

80 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:36:31am

First modern oil well was invented by Jan Józef Ignacy Łukasiewicz and was put to use in Bobrka, Poland.

Five years later (1859) Edwin Drake designed a version of the oil well that was later widely copied in the oil industry.

Technically, this makes Łukasiewicz the inventor of the oil well.

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:37:56am

re: #6 Charles

Santorum just took a question from a woman who says she's filled with rage over having to "press 1 for English."

I have never, in my whole life, had to 'press 1 for English'. I have refrained from pressing 2 for Spanish, but that's not hard to do. You just don't press.

82 avanti  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:38:09am

re: #73 Sigma_x

What in the F_CK is the republican's game plan - to pull a Jedi mind-trick and somehow try and convince the American public that we're NOT better off than we were 2 years ago?

In the past year and a half, Obama and the Democrats have stabilized the banks, the economy, and the major car companies; they passed health care reform that adds thirty million people and cuts the deficit long term while getting rid of the worst abuses of the insurance companies; they extended the solvency of Medicare for a decade; they're drawing down troops in Iraq; they're making progress with green energy; there has not been one successful terrorist attack on American soil; they’ve just signed a nuclear arms reduction treaty and re-examined our use of military weapons and they're making great progress on the global stage. Hell, the DOW is up over 3,000 since we got rid of the republicans.

Are yet here they are - "Vote the bums out! Impeach Obama!"

Who is blind enough to fall for this?

"These are not the droids you're looking for - move along."

Some on the right are questioning that game plan now that it looks very possible the economy may be heading for a major turn around.

83 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:38:11am

re: #77 NJDhockeyfan

Ray Nagin's term, not mine. Fuck you back.

Baltimore, Washington, DC, and various other towns with majority black populations have also been known as "chocolate city" over the years. Sometimes it's a descriptor, sometimes it's a dogwhistle. Coming from your keyboard, I suspect the latter, no matter whom you're quoting.

84 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:38:36am

re: #25 Charles

Every single politician speaking at the SRLC is a creationist.

All of them.

The takeover is complete. The Conservative movement as Barry Goldwater, Bill Buckley, and my younger self knew it just does not exist anymore. The difference between the GOP mainstream and the tea-parties is one of intensity rather than of substance. Ronald Reagan undoubtedly thought it was a good idea to promote the nascent religious right as a solid GOP voting bloc during the lead-up to the 1980 election. I wonder if he would think so now.

85 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:38:51am

re: #71 Cato the Elder

What is your objection to the "chocolate city" reference? Ray "Chocolate City" Nagin is just witty shorthand for Ray "oily race hustling little napoleon" Nagin, imho.

Are you just frustrated you can't press 1 for English on your rotary phone either?

86 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:41:40am

I'll bet anything this Pence guy is gonna be the Republican nominee for President in 2012.

87 swamprat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:41:42am

re: #73 Sigma_x
Yes. They tried to block healthcare "reform" because they didn't want a Democratic President to do something good for America. They are as despicable as the Democrats were when Bush was President. Frankly both parties make me want to puke.

If the Republicans though healthcare "reform" was bad for the country, they would have just smiled like Cheshire cats and let the votes roll in.

If you think I can't find equal fault with the antics of the Democrats, you are mistaken.

88 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:41:48am

re: #78 Obdicut

Sorry, I meant by that definition a placenta is a human being.

Right, an unaware one incapable of living outside the host. Point being, the term "human being" is rather meaningless in my view of the debate. If the pro-life crowd wants to argue over "when life begins" and human beings, let them, because the fact is personhood is the crux of the issue. If it isn't then why let Terri Schiavo pass once her mind was irrevocably gone?

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:42:00am

re: #28 reine.de.tout

We've had 2 languages spoken in Louisiana for a couple of hundred years.
The.World.Does.Not.Fall.Apart.

What always amazes me is that occasionally people on the bus (I choose to assume they're tourists) will try to start up conversations with me, expressing their annoyance that people near us are speaking Chinese or Spanish. To each other. About matters that no one who doesn't speak the language has any need or business to know about. And here I've got this fool..."Well! I thought I was in America!!"

Yeah, me too lady, please let me read my newspaper in peace...

90 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:43:05am

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

I have never, in my whole life, had to 'press 1 for English'. I have refrained from pressing 2 for Spanish, but that's not hard to do. You just don't press.

It's a total myth. The implication being if you don't press "1" in time, you're gonna have to do that customer service call in Aztec.

Fucking xenophobic dogwhistle.

As if all the corporations in America are going to give up those Hispanic dollars to satisfy some "speak English or get the fuck out" biker-bar fantasy vision of America.

91 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:43:24am

re: #86 Sigma_x

I'll bet anything this Pence guy is gonna be the Republican nominee for President in 2012.

A representative? I don't think one's been nominated since James Garfield in 1880.

92 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:43:29am

First documented extended flights were by Otto Lilienthal:

Otto Lilienthal (May 23, 1848-August 10, 1896) was a German pioneer of human aviation who became known as the Glider King. He was the first person to make well-documented, repeated, successful gliding flights. He followed an experimental approach established earlier by Sir George Cayley. Newspapers and magazines published photographs of Lilienthal gliding, favorably influencing public and scientific opinion about the possibility of flying machines becoming practical...

Lilienthal's research was well known to the Wright brothers, and they credited him as a major inspiration for their decision to pursue manned flight. However, they abandoned his aeronautical data after two seasons of gliding and began using their own wind tunnel data...

In September 1909 Orville Wright was in Germany making demonstration flights at Tempelhof aerodrome. He paid a call to Lilienthal's widow and on behalf of himself and Wilbur paid tribute to Lilienthal for his influence in aviation and on their own initial experiments in 1899...

93 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:43:48am

re: #87 swamprat

Yes. They tried to block healthcare "reform" because they didn't want a Democratic President to do something good for America. They are as despicable as the Democrats were when Bush was President. Frankly both parties make me want to puke.

If the Republicans though healthcare "reform" was bad for the country, they would have just smiled like Cheshire cats and let the votes roll in.

If you think I can't find equal fault with the antics of the Democrats, you are mistaken.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you. However, please provide me with one example of Democrats being "as despicable when Bush was President."

That's easy to say. It's something else entirely to actually back it up with facts.

94 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:44:49am

Honestly, I just wish people who get frustrated with the immigrants not knowing English would realize that 1.) our language isn't exactly easy to learn and 2.) the older you are the harder it is to learn a new language.

95 jamesfirecat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:45:04am

re: #77 NJDhockeyfan

Ray Nagin's term, not mine. Fuck you back.

Doesn't mean we have to mention it every time he's brought up. Do we call him George "Mission Accomplished" W. Bush?

96 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:45:11am

re: #91 HappyWarrior

A representative? I don't think one's been nominated since James Garfield in 1880.

In this day and age, when a 1/2 term senator can become president (or a semi-lierate, drop-out Governor can even be considered as a viable candidate), anything can happen.

97 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:45:23am

re: #93 Sigma_x

I'm not totally disagreeing with you. However, please provide me with one example of Democrats being "as despicable when Bush was President."

That's easy to say. It's something else entirely to actually back it up with facts.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

98 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:46:08am

re: #83 Cato the Elder

Baltimore, Washington, DC, and various other towns with majority black populations have also been known as "chocolate city" over the years. Sometimes it's a descriptor, sometimes it's a dogwhistle. Coming from your keyboard, I suspect the latter, no matter whom you're quoting.

Dude...are you serious?

Nagin:

"I don't care what people are saying Uptown or wherever they are. This city will be chocolate at the end of the day, this city will be a majority African-American city. It's the way God wants it to be."

"How do you make chocolate? You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk, and it becomes a delicious drink. That is the chocolate I am talking about."
"New Orleans was a chocolate city before Katrina. It is going to be a chocolate city after. How is that divisive?"

99 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:46:12am

re: #95 jamesfirecat

Doesn't mean we have to mention it every time he's brought up. Do we call him George "Mission Accomplished" W. Bush?

I just call him Howdy-Dubya, Karl Rove's meat-puppet.

100 fizzlogic  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:46:22am

re: #73 Sigma_x Much of what you wrote was lifted directly from a post at a different blog. It's really not hard to post a link.

101 swamprat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:46:50am

re: #93 Sigma_x

I'm not totally disagreeing with you. However, please provide me with one example of Democrats being "as despicable when Bush was President."

That's easy to say. It's something else entirely to actually back it up with facts.

No. I am not going down the partisan path. If you think they are all hunk-dory, well and good.

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:47:11am

re: #46 webevintage

But of course, what do we know?
From what I have been told that the reason I have such a stabby feeling each time I see or hear this woman is because she pro-life and did not abort that DS kid the way I (being a Lib) would want her too or because she is a better mom then me because she had more kids and they are all turning out so well or that she is attractive & I must be a fat fatty or because she loves GOD and I don't or that I am just JEALOUS because she is SARAH and I am not.

The thing is that until Ma Palin opened her mouth at the Republican Convention and used that bitchy voice to sneer at Obama's work as a community organizer I was kinda jazzed about a woman VP candidate and thought "wow, bold move McCain".

Oh boy, do I agree with every word.

The 'you just hate her for not aborting Trig' meme particularly aggravates me. Yes, if I don't like an adult politician, it must be because I think children with Down Syndrome have no right to be born. That's GOTTA be it.

103 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:47:20am

re: #96 Sigma_x

In this day and age, when a 1/2 term senator can become president (or a semi-lierate, drop-out Governor can even be considered as a viable candidate), anything can happen.

You do have a point. How Palin is treated as a viable candidate after she quit on her state astonishes me. If I were her Republican opponents in a primary I'd point that out time and time again.

104 swamprat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:48:04am

re: #101 swamprat
I mean I am not going down that path this morning.

105 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:48:18am

Watch out for those sneaky Russians.

Russia eyes U.S. air base in Kyrgyz turmoil

Turmoil in Kyrgyzstan has thrust the fate of the Manas air base -- which is crucial for fighting the Afghan war -- to the forefront of rivalry between the United States and Russia.

Russia has long dreamed of evicting the United States from Central Asia and a Russian official said on Thursday that Moscow would urge the interim Kyrgyz government to shut the U.S. base.

Suspicions of the Kremlin's hand in the unrest were raised when Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin became the first world leader to recognize the authority of the self-proclaimed government, just hours after it took power.

Washington has been more guarded, refusing to endorse either President Kurmanbek Bakiyev or the self-proclaimed government leaders, some of whom have already raised the specter of shutting the base.

China, which shares a land border with Kyrgyzstan, has been largely silent.

"Russia was very quick to act. Both China and the U.S., by comparison, were caught on the hop," said Nick Day, chief executive of business intelligence firm Diligence LLC.

"Russia is going to dominate Kyrgyzstan and that means problems for the U.S," he said. "Russia will use this as a lever in negotiations with America."

Putin, who is considered by most Russians to be the country's paramount leader, has denied involvement.

106 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:48:20am

re: #94 HappyWarrior

Honestly, I just wish people who get frustrated with the immigrants not knowing English would realize that 1.) our language isn't exactly easy to learn and 2.) the older you are the harder it is to learn a new language.

And [if I may] 3.) there are people born here to speakers of other languages who actually are citizens before they can speak, and whose first words are not necessarily English. They are still Americans.

107 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:48:29am

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh boy, do I agree with every word.

The 'you just hate her for not aborting Trig' meme particularly aggravates me. Yes, if I don't like an adult politician, it must be because I think children with Down Syndrome have no right to be born. That's GOTTA be it.

WHY DO YOU HATE TRIG!?!?!
Yeah I hate that crap too. It really really offends me personally given that I had a great aunt with Downs and knowing that my very Democratic grandfather cared a lot for her.

108 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:48:41am

re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Link: www.politico.com...]

That's it?! That's all you can come up with to back up your spurious claim that democrats were as despicable as republicans are now when Bush was President?

C'mon, dude.

109 jamesfirecat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:49:21am

re: #99 Cato the Elder

I just call him Howdy-Dubya, Karl Rove's meat-puppet.

Which is all the more ironic because as Stephen Colbert pointed out, Karl Rove's head looks like a ham. The meat leading the meat...

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:49:59am

re: #76 avanti

Speaking of immigrants, the guy that helped subdue the shoe bomber gets his citizenship.

hero.

Looking at him, one doesn't wonder that he was able to subdue the shoe bomber. That is a very large, fit-looking man.

111 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:50:29am

re: #108 Sigma_x

That's it?! That's all you can come up with to back up your spurious claim that democrats were as despicable as republicans are now when Bush was President?

C'mon, dude.

Please, don't count the wingnuts. BTW, Reid tried to get free speech censored.

112 avanti  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:52:37am

re: #105 NJDhockeyfan

Watch out for those sneaky Russians.

Russia eyes U.S. air base in Kyrgyz turmoil

Yea, and the CIA had nothing to do with getting the Shah installed in Iran. Nations tend to act in their own self interest. I'd bet the Russians had a had in this one.

113 Pip's Squeak  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:52:44am

re: #94 HappyWarrior

I disagree profoundly with your reasoning. English is easy or hard to learn depending on what language one starts out from. Learning the language of where one lives is just plain politeness if nothing else. But then I live in Holland.

114 allegro  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:52:54am

re: #111 Cannadian Club Akbar

Please, don't count the wingnuts

How can one not when they have become the voice of the republican party?

115 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:55:15am

re: #98 NJDhockeyfan

I've had a tanker truck of chocolate milk in my life and have photos of the well-fed elementary school age keloyd to prove it. Chocolate milk is not called 'chocolate', not here. Nagin is a race baiting, dog whistling, incompetent hustler. We are hypocrites to hold back on ridiculing black race hustlers when we eagerly go after similar white ones. The smartest thing Houston's chamber of commerce has ever done for decades is just keep quiet and let Louisiana college grads and businesses flee to Texas. Whether it's Huey Long, Edwin Edwards, or Nagin, they're all about the same.

116 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:55:44am

re: #114 allegro

How can one not when they have become the voice of the republican party?

That movement will go away. Just like Code Pink and International ANSWER.

117 cineaste  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:56:01am

re: #28 reine.de.tout

We've had 2 languages spoken in Louisiana for a couple of hundred years.
The.World.Does.Not.Fall.Apart.

And didn't W proudly showcase his Spanish abilities. He even gave a speech in Spanish at some point IIRC. I didn't like a lot of things about him but I thought it was nice seeing a President speaking another language.

Imagine the conniptions wing-nutters & birthers would go into if Obama dropped a little kiswahili into a speech! ha!

118 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:56:21am

re: #113 Pip's Squeak

I disagree profoundly with your reasoning. English is easy or hard to learn depending on what language one starts out from. Learning the language of where one lives is just plain politeness if nothing else. But then I live in Holland.

So you don't have to learn Dutch, because nearly everyone in Holland speaks English.

You might have to learn Arabic to get by in certain quarters, though.

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:56:46am

re: #90 Cato the Elder

It's a total myth. The implication being if you don't press "1" in time, you're gonna have to do that customer service call in Aztec.

Fucking xenophobic dogwhistle.

As if all the corporations in America are going to give up those Hispanic dollars to satisfy some "speak English or get the fuck out" biker-bar fantasy vision of America.

I had a student a couple of years ago who spoke good Maya. We could set up a customer service translation chain, like the one Cortes used to talk to Montezuma.

(Cortes spoke Spanish to one of his men, who translated into Maya. This dude spoke to Malinche, who translated from Maya to Nahuatl. Montezuma responded in Nahuatl, whereupon the whole chain went back to Cortes.)

And yeah. It's odd how people imagine that companies are going to give up good money to satisfy some sort of 'the way it's supposed to be' fantasy.

120 swamprat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:56:56am

Blaaat!!!
Blaaat!!!
Blaaat!!!

Incoming partisan rhetoric avalanche alert!

Please find an acceptable rhetoric shelter!

Safe places are hammocks, gardens, kitchens, workshops, and malls.

It is suggested that you seek shelter NOW.

That is all.

121 cineaste  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:57:15am

re: #48 goddamnedfrank

One small quibble, a blastocyst is a human being in the strictest sense of the term, in other words it has human chromosomes and exists. What it is not (yet) is a person, it has no sentience. I can whip up a ven diagram for anybody who needs one.

Doesn't my cuticle have chromosomes and exist? That's a pretty loose standard for the definition of a human.

122 jamesfirecat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:57:30am

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

I had a student a couple of years ago who spoke good Maya. We could set up a customer service translation chain, like the one Cortes used to talk to Montezuma.

(Cortes spoke Spanish to one of his men, who translated into Maya. This dude spoke to Malinche, who translated from Maya to Nahuatl. Montezuma responded in Nahuatl, whereupon the whole chain went back to Cortes.)

And yeah. It's odd how people imagine that companies are going to give up good money to satisfy some sort of 'the way it's supposed to be' fantasy.

I'm pretty sure I saw something similar happen in Fraiser once....

123 Racer X  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:58:03am

Harry Reid - The War Is Lost

Harry Reid is an asshole.

124 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:58:18am

re: #113 Pip's Squeak

I disagree profoundly with your reasoning. English is easy or hard to learn depending on what language one starts out from. Learning the language of where one lives is just plain politeness if nothing else. But then I live in Holland.

Well in my great grandparents experience it was from Eastern European languages and they immigrated here in their early 20's. I do expect people to try to learn English but it's not going to happen overnight the way the anti-immigrant people here act.

125 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:59:00am

re: #124 HappyWarrior

Well in my great grandparents experience it was from Eastern European languages and they immigrated here in their early 20's. I do expect people to try to learn English but it's not going to happen overnight the way the anti-immigrant people here act.

The second generation learns it automatically.

126 Jaerik  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:59:23am

re: #73 Sigma_x

What in the F_CK is the republican's game plan - to pull a Jedi mind-trick and somehow try and convince the American public that we're NOT better off than we were 2 years ago?

The Republicans screwed up. Not just by liberal standards, but by conservative ones. The vast majority of our current national debt was racked up under Reagan and Bush. During 2000-2008, we borrowed and spent trillions of dollars like Medicare Part D and two wars -- things that unlike the current health care bill, they didn't even make an nod at attempting to pay for. They threw every last pretense of fiscal responsibility to the wind, preferring a scorched-earth, Rovian-style 50%+1 approach to politics. They have, in my mind (and many others), permanently ruined their brand.

So with absolutely nothing to stand on, with no policies or even dignity left, the only way they can possibly keep from entirely disappearing from the face of the planet is to lean on the two-party system. Basically, by making people so upset at the Left (through whatever flagrantly dishonest means are necessary), they will feel there is no choice but to vote straight back in the people who got us in this mess in the first place. It's despicable and sickening, but it's the only way they can survive as a party at this point.

127 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 11:59:40am

Dave Weigel is @ SRLC - twittering away:

Barbour calls Katrina "natural disaster." Heckler: "IT WASN'T NATURAL!

No idea - but follow his twitter feed, it's pretty funny.

[Link: twitter.com...]

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:00:11pm

re: #116 Cannadian Club Akbar

That movement will go away. Just like Code Pink and International ANSWER.

They ain't gone. They're just less interesting to the press than they once were.

//OK, ANSWER may be falling apart, or they may just be diversifying and focusing out of country. Code Pink marches happily along, same as ever.

///OH, BTW, Code Pink seems to be contemplating some sort of attempted alliance with the Tea Party people. Stay tuned for hilarity.

129 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:00:14pm

re: #123 Racer X

Harry Reid - The War Is Lost


[Video]Harry Reid is an assholeDouchebag.

130 Kruk  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:00:27pm

re: #106 wrenchwench

And [if I may] 3.) there are people born here to speakers of other languages who actually are citizens before they can speak, and whose first words are not necessarily English. They are still Americans.

But not *real* Americans.// What steams the people who get worked up about bilingual signs, telephone messages or people just chatting in another language is idea that non-Anglos are actually allowed to take part in society in terms that suit them.

131 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:00:29pm

re: #125 Cato the Elder

The second generation learns it automatically.

Yeah my grandparents both spoke/speak unaccented English but their parents despite ending up most of their lives here still had trouble learning it fully.

132 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:00:30pm

re: #93 Sigma_x

I'm not totally disagreeing with you. However, please provide me with one example of Democrats being "as despicable when Bush was President."

That's easy to say. It's something else entirely to actually back it up with facts.

How about Jimmy Carter D-scum) undermining the United States by personally making back room deals with totalitarian regimes (including Cuba, Egypt, and Pakistan) at the UN?

President Carter personally called Secretary of State Rice to try to convince her to reverse her U.N. ambassador's position on changes to the U.N. Human Rights Commission, the former president recalled yesterday in a talk in which he also criticized President Bush's Christian bona fides and misstated past American policies on Israel.

Mr. Carter said he made a personal promise to ambassadors from Egypt, Pakistan, and Cuba on the U.N. change issue that was undermined by America's ambassador, John Bolton. "My hope is that when the vote is taken," he told the Council on Foreign Relations, "the other members will outvote the United States."

While other former presidents have tried to refrain from attacking the sitting chief executive, Mr. Carter's attacks on President Bush have increased. The episode he recounted yesterday showed how he tried to undermine officials at lower levels in an effort to influence policy.

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:00:54pm

re: #117 cineaste

And didn't W proudly showcase his Spanish abilities. He even gave a speech in Spanish at some point IIRC. I didn't like a lot of things about him but I thought it was nice seeing a President speaking another language.

Imagine the conniptions wing-nutters & birthers would go into if Obama dropped a little kiswahili into a speech! ha!

Bush did a press conference in Spanish at some point. Can't recall if it was when he was stumping for Gov. or Pres., but once again, a nice touch.

134 cineaste  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:01:00pm

re: #123 Racer X

Harry Reid - The War Is Lost


[Video]

Harry Reid is an asshole.

Meh - it's a little hard to say that we "won" anything. Would you consider a victory accepting that a bomb goes off and kills 40 or 50 people several times a week in downtown New York? Most of us would consider that to be a war.

135 swamprat  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:01:05pm

re: #120 swamprat

My god. Save yourselves while you can.

136 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:01:16pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

Please tell me you are kidding...

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:02:28pm

re: #124 HappyWarrior

Well in my great grandparents experience it was from Eastern European languages and they immigrated here in their early 20's. I do expect people to try to learn English but it's not going to happen overnight the way the anti-immigrant people here act.

Sometimes the first generation, the immigrants, just never get all that fluent. Their kids learn in school. It's just not a big deal.

138 allegro  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:03:09pm

re: #130 Kruk

What steams the people who get worked up about bilingual signs, telephone messages...

There are a few areas here in Houston that have dual street signage in Chinese or Viet Namese and a lot of billboards, etc. in Spanish. I think it's entirely cool and I love seeing it.

139 Kruk  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:03:47pm

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist


And yeah. It's odd how people imagine that companies are going to give up good money to satisfy some sort of 'the way it's supposed to be' fantasy.

Heh. The party of free enterprise which wants to limit how companies do business. The party of individual liberties that wants to police what happens in private between consenting adults. The party of family values that gets hit by one martial scandal after another.

140 cineaste  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:03:49pm

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist

Bush did a press conference in Spanish at some point. Can't recall if it was when he was stumping for Gov. or Pres., but once again, a nice touch.

I believe it was while he was stumping for President. I don't think he did it after he was elected but by all accounts he was a very competent Spanish speaker.

141 Vambo  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:04:22pm

re: #6 Charles

Santorum just took a question from a woman who says she's filled with rage over having to "press 1 for English."

omg! could you imagine if she had to press 2 for English?! I bet she'd have a massive coronary.

142 Pip's Squeak  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:04:28pm

re: #118 Cato the Elder

So you don't have to learn Dutch, because nearly everyone in Holland speaks English.

You might have to learn Arabic to get by in certain quarters, though.

The English of the Dutch is commonly adequate or better. This is not the point. If I live in Holland, I should learn Dutch. Period. The notion that bilingualism is historically or geographicly rare is incorrect.

Where I live one is as likely to hear a Berber language or Turkish as Arabic.

143 Kruk  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:04:41pm

re: #139 Kruk

Heh. The party of free enterprise which wants to limit how companies do business. The party of individual liberties that wants to police what happens in private between consenting adults. The party of family values that gets hit by one martial scandal after another.

Okay, marital, not martial. (Freudian slip from a married guy.)

144 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:04:43pm

re: #140 cineaste

I believe it was while he was stumping for President. I don't think he did it after he was elected but by all accounts he was a very competent Spanish speaker.

But, but, he is da stoopid!!!
/

145 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:05:07pm

re: #134 cineaste

Meh - it's a little hard to say that we "won" anything. Would you consider a victory accepting that a bomb goes off and kills 40 or 50 people several times a week in downtown New York? Most of us would consider that to be a war.

Saddam's regime is gone, they have elections, we drove out or killed most of the terrorists in Iraq, women & children are going to schools, etc....yes, we won.

146 cineaste  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:05:12pm

re: #138 allegro

There are a few areas here in Houston that have dual street signage in Chinese or Viet Namese and a lot of billboards, etc. in Spanish. I think it's entirely cool and I love seeing it.

Try going into Chinatown in NYC. The McDonald's menu and the Chase bank are all in Chinese. It's fun.

147 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:05:45pm

re: #132 NJDhockeyfan

Jimmy Carter, scum? Jimmy Carter is a lot of things, but "scum" isn't one of them. And, yeah, as we all know, a Republican has NEVER made a "backroom deal" with a totalitarian regime, right?

I'm just gonna keep moving here. Thanks for the, uhhh, interesting point of view.

148 cineaste  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:05:53pm

re: #138 allegro

There are a few areas here in Houston that have dual street signage in Chinese or Viet Namese and a lot of billboards, etc. in Spanish. I think it's entirely cool and I love seeing it.

Also, when I travel to Paris or Berlin I don't feel like those places are any less French or German because I see signs in English and French/German.

149 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:05:53pm

re: #146 cineaste

Try going into Chinatown in NYC. The McDonald's menu and the Chase bank are all in Chinese. It's fun.

Le Royal with cheese?
/

150 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:06:21pm

re: #136 Cannadian Club Akbar

Please tell me you are kidding...

No, I'm not kidding. Was doing some research last night, and one woman from the local anti-Israel movement is upset that Medea Benjamin is talking about trying to make some sort of alliance with the TPers. She knows Benjamin personally, has worked with her, so I can't imagine why she'd be complaining about this on a leftische blog if the conversation hadn't taken place.

Now, Medea may find that's easier said than done, but apparently the idea is being floated in left-fringe land.

151 cineaste  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:08:08pm

re: #144 Cannadian Club Akbar

But, but, he is da stoopid!!!
/

I haven't said that. I don't think he was exceedingly bright though and I dont' think he was thoughtful and that is a real problem. Reagan wasn't supposed to be a rocket scientist either but he was very thoughtful.

Also, many people believe bush has a form of aphasia that made him sound far less coherent than he should have. He clearly had some sort of speech problem.

152 Racer X  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:08:33pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

OH, BTW, Code Pink seems to be contemplating some sort of attempted alliance with the Tea Party people. Stay tuned for hilarity.

I can't wait to see this.

153 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:09:22pm

re: #147 Sigma_x

Jimmy Carter, scum? Jimmy Carter is a lot of things, but "scum" isn't one of them.

Yes, Jimmy Carter is a terrorist loving anti-semitic scumbag.

And, yeah, as we all know, a Republican has NEVER made a "backroom deal" with a totalitarian regime, right?

While trying to undermine US foreign policy at the UN? Never. You are welcome to prove me wrong.

154 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:09:22pm

re: #132 NJDhockeyfan

How about Jimmy Carter D-scum) undermining the United States by personally making back room deals with totalitarian regimes (including Cuba, Egypt, and Pakistan) at the UN?

That's particularly stupid of you. Former President Carter can't make any deals as he was no longer serving as an elected official. But don't let simple facts keep you from smearing an honest man.

155 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:09:25pm

re: #147 Sigma_x

Jimmy Carter, scum? Jimmy Carter is a lot of things, but "scum" isn't one of them. And, yeah, as we all know, a Republican has NEVER made a "backroom deal" with a totalitarian regime, right?

I'm just gonna keep moving here. Thanks for the, uhhh, interesting point of view.

In my mind, "scum" can be shorthand for "Israel-hating, lying, attention-whoring opportunist".

But that's just me.

156 cineaste  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:09:57pm

re: #145 NJDhockeyfan

Saddam's regime is gone, they have elections, we drove out or killed most of the terrorists in Iraq, women & children are going to schools, etc...yes, we won.

For the record, women & children were going to school under Saddam and he had killed off or imprisoned huge numbers of terrorists. So we got rid of him and they have elections but frankly, I don't think that was worth the price and they seem capable of slipping into a Iranian proxy-state nightmare at any moment.

I'll be impressed when those free elections continue once there aren't US troops & contractors guarding the government.

157 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:10:19pm

re: #151 cineaste

I haven't said that. I don't think he was exceedingly bright though and I dont' think he was thoughtful and that is a real problem. Reagan wasn't supposed to be a rocket scientist either but he was very thoughtful.

Also, many people believe bush has a form of aphasia that made him sound far less coherent than he should have. He clearly had some sort of speech problem.

Some people can learn multiple languages and not have anything coherent to say in any of them.

158 cineaste  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:10:33pm

re: #147 Sigma_x

Jimmy Carter, scum? Jimmy Carter is a lot of things, but "scum" isn't one of them. And, yeah, as we all know, a Republican has NEVER made a "backroom deal" with a totalitarian regime, right?

I'm just gonna keep moving here. Thanks for the, uhhh, interesting point of view.

Iran Contra

'nuff said.

159 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:11:03pm

re: #155 Cato the Elder

In my mind, "scum" can be shorthand for "Israel-hating, lying, attention-whoring opportunist".

But that's just me.

Wow - I did NOT know Carter was an "Isreal-hater."

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

160 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:11:42pm

re: #123 Racer X

Harry Reid - The War Is Lost

[Video]Harry Reid is an asshole.



Fred Thompson: Afghan war 'has been lost'

"It really doesn't matter how President Obama divides the Afghan baby, how he splits the difference between McChrystal and Biden. Because the war has been lost," Thompson said on his radio show today. "I say this because of one sad and simple fact. The president does not have the will and determination to do what's necessary to win it. His heart's not in it, and never has been. The Taliban knows it. Al Qaeda knows it. Our allies know it. And the American people know it.

161 Vambo  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:11:43pm

re: #132 NJDhockeyfan

HOW DARE HE!! He probably made out with them too!!

oh damn, wrong pic.

162 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:11:53pm

There may be a few Republicans still hiding under their (neoclassical style Ethan Allen Executive) desks who believe if any corporation can use bilingual signs to bring in more business, they are compelled to maximize shareholder value and do so. I really want them to come back like Cincinnatus in 2016 and keep Palin out.

Speaking for myself, lots of fast food places nearby used to be staffed by teenagers, and middle aged Hispanic women are slowly taking up that niche. I'd rather have grown up, responsible, mature women cooking my food and NOT giving me food poisoning, imho.

163 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:11:59pm

re: #151 cineaste

I didn't mean to imply anything. Sorry if I did.

164 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:12:46pm

re: #153 NJDhockeyfan

While trying to undermine US foreign policy at the UN? Never. You are welcome to prove me wrong.

How about undermining Congressional authority over war-making powers by doing deals with an Islamofascist republic that supported terror strikes against Israel?

Do the names "Reagan" and "Iran-Contra" mean anything to you?

The Gipper and the Peanut: both scum.

165 Kruk  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:13:10pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

Sometimes the first generation, the immigrants, just never get all that fluent. Their kids learn in school. It's just not a big deal.

I've seen this a lot with immigrant families. You might have one generation who speak very broken English, a second who speak fluently while not quite acquiring the proficiency of 'native' speakers, and a third who're indistinguisable from the natives, right down to regional accents.

166 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:13:25pm

re: #159 Sigma_x

Wow - I did NOT know Carter was an "Isreal-hater."

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Link: www.camera.org...]

167 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:13:54pm

re: #159 Sigma_x

Wow - I did NOT know Carter was an "Isreal-hater."

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I'm not surprised, considering that you can't even spell the name "Israel".

168 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:14:22pm

re: #159 Sigma_x

Wow - I did NOT know Carter was an "Isreal-hater."

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

You will learn a lot at LGF.

169 Racer X  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:14:33pm
170 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:14:42pm

re: #140 cineaste

I believe it was while he was stumping for President. I don't think he did it after he was elected but by all accounts he was a very competent Spanish speaker.

W spoke a lot of Spanish here in Texas. The problem was you know how his mouth was where English words would go to die? Same with Spanish. His pronunciation was just good enough to be understood.

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:14:43pm

re: #159 Sigma_x

Wow - I did NOT know Carter was an "Isreal-hater."

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Oh, he is. Pity. I was sort of getting into the whole Habitat-buildin', jovial handyman ex-president thing before he went off the rails about 'apartheid'.

172 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:15:35pm

re: #168 NJDhockeyfan

You will learn a lot at LGF.

I trust this place more than the media.:)

173 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:16:42pm

re: #160 Gus 802

Gus, you're mistaken. Fred Thompson is a Republican so he can criticize American policy. If he were a Democrat he would be anti-American. Do you see the difference?

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:17:13pm

re: #170 keloyd

W spoke a lot of Spanish here in Texas. The problem was you know how his mouth was where English words would go to die? Same with Spanish. His pronunciation was just good enough to be understood.

Luckily, though, Spanish speakers tend to be very encouraging, and appreciate people just trying to speak Spanish.

175 Racer X  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:17:44pm

re: #160 Gus 802

One is a private citizen; the other was an elected official and the leader of the senate at the time he declared 'war is over.' Both are wrong.

Harry Reid is a scumbag.

176 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:17:49pm

re: #168 NJDhockeyfan

You will learn a lot at LGF.

Jimmy Carter - LGF tag viewer.

Some of Carter's "greatest hits":

Jimmy Carter: The Civil War Was 'Un-Christian'

Video: Carter Says 'Trust Hamas'

Carter Meets with Hezbollah's Spiritual Leader

177 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:18:20pm

re: #173 Olsonist

Gus, you're mistaken. Fred Thompson is a Republican so he can criticize American policy. If he were a Democrat he would be anti-American. Do you see the difference?

No. When Bush was the President it was "patriotic" to critique the President.

178 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:19:20pm

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. When Bush was the President it was "patriotic" to critique the President.

Now it's racist.

179 Jadespring  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:19:21pm

re: #165 Kruk

I've seen this a lot with immigrant families. You might have one generation who speak very broken English, a second who speak fluently while not quite acquiring the proficiency of 'native' speakers, and a third who're indistinguisable from the natives, right down to regional accents.

Yep, that's pretty much how the pattern has gone since the beginning of colonization. Where my Mom grew up in Ontario a good many of the older folk spoke Scottish Gaelic as the area was settled by folks straight out of the Highlands. She said it was quite normal to hear it on the street and a few of the really older folk spoke barely any English at all. Their kids all spoke english and some Gaelic with Gaelic slowly disappearing until now where there's two people in the area who speak it fluently.

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:19:29pm

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. When Bush was the President it was "patriotic" to critique the President.

And it still is! More so than ever, now that the people who used to sneer at that have taken it up with a vengeance.

181 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:19:47pm

re: #101 swamprat

No. I am not going down the partisan path. If you think they are all hunk-dory, well and good.

Both parties are losing ground among the voters with fewer and fewer people willing to claim the Republicans or the Democrats as their party with every poll that comes out.

While the truly devout on both sides work hard to push their parties further away from the center and to the very fringes. Those of us in the middle watch in disgust as they become noisier and more partisan on what they see as their own private "core issues."

Blind belief in either party regardless of their actions is what has gotten us to where we are now in the first place.

182 Racer X  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:20:22pm

re: #175 Racer X

One is a private citizen; the other was an elected official and the leader of the senate at the time he declared 'war is over lost.' Both are wrong.

Harry Reid is a scumbag.

Duh-oh!

Big difference.

Harry Reid is a scumbag.

183 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:20:42pm

re: #164 Cato the Elder

How about undermining Congressional authority over war-making powers by doing deals with an Islamofascist republic that supported terror strikes against Israel?

Do the names "Reagan" and "Iran-Contra" mean anything to you?

The Gipper and the Peanut: both scum.

the congress has authority over war-making powers?

184 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:20:47pm

re: #178 NJDhockeyfan

Now it's racist.

re: #180 SanFranciscoZionist

And it still is! More so than ever, now that the people who used to sneer at that have taken it up with a vengeance.

You!! You!! Level headed people!!

185 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:20:51pm

I can NOT wait to see the faces on these imbeciles when they don't re-take the House or even come close to taking back the Senate. What are they gonna say then? How are they gonna spin that? When the re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, he is. Pity. I was sort of getting into the whole Habitat-buildin', jovial handyman ex-president thing before he went off the rails about 'apartheid'.

I don't know enough on the subject to offer an informed opinion either way. But I'm going to do some homework on it. Because I find it troubling that he would be looked down upon so harshly in this regard. I mean, this is the guy behind the Camp David Accord, right?

186 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:21:02pm

WOW...incredible!

Afghanistan: Live Explosives Removed From Soldier's Scalp


Risking a deadly explosion in the operating room, doctors at the Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan surgically removed an explosive device from the head of an Afghan National Army Soldier last month, according to the Air Force News Service.

The 2.5-inch unexploded ordnance became lodged in the patient's scalp during an improvised explosive device attack. But when the patient arrived for treatment, doctors thought it was only a piece of scrap metal, the Air Force reported.

"Initially, I thought it was a spent end of some sort of larger round," Lt. Col. Anthony Terreri, the radiologist at the Craig Joint Theater Hospital who checked the patient's CAT scan, told the Air Force.

"I saw that it was not solid metal on the inside," he said. "I then looked at the [CAT scan] image and could see there was an air gap on one end and what looked almost like the tip of a tube of lipstick at the end and decided this didn't look quite right."

Unnecessary personnel were immediately evacuated and an explosive ordnance disposal team was summoned in preparation for surgery, Maj. John Bini, the 455th Expeditionary Medical Group-Task Force Medical East trauma director, told the Air Force.

187 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:21:47pm

re: #179 Jadespring

Yep, that's pretty much how the pattern has gone since the beginning of colonization. Where my Mom grew up in Ontario a good many of the older folk spoke Scottish Gaelic as the area was settled by folks straight out of the Highlands. She said it was quite normal to hear it on the street and a few of the really older folk spoke barely any English at all. Their kids all spoke english and some Gaelic with Gaelic slowly disappearing until now where there's two people in the area who speak it fluently.

Apropos of nothing, i'm in between having finished DAO and not yet having acquired Awakenings. It's a sad place.

188 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:21:49pm

re: #183 Aceofwhat?

the congress has authority over war-making powers?

They did until the advent of the Imperial Presidency.

189 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:22:53pm

re: #185 Sigma_x

Carter supports Hamas. "Nuff said.

190 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:23:26pm

re: #186 NJDhockeyfan

The Romans used to have a thing called a "Triumph," in which triumphant generals were paraded through town with their trophies and applauded and showered with flowers, etc.

Let's give those doctors one. We can show the defused device, coming behind them in chains.

191 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:23:32pm

re: #185 Sigma_x

I don't know enough on the subject to offer an informed opinion either way. But I'm going to do some homework on it. Because I find it troubling that he would be looked down upon so harshly in this regard. I mean, this is the guy behind the Camp David Accord, right?

Heh. If into Carter's Palestinian credentials you go, only pain will you find...

192 MandyManners  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:23:53pm

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. When Bush was the President it was "patriotic" to critique the President.

And, courageous.


193 Racer X  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:24:20pm

re: #188 Cato the Elder

They did until the advent of the Imperial Presidency.

Bush was not an Imperialist.

He just used his sooper-sekrit brain waves to fool democrats into voting to go to war.

Idiot?
or
Evil Genius?

194 Jadespring  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:24:56pm

re: #187 Aceofwhat?

Apropos of nothing, i'm in between having finished DAO and not yet having acquired Awakenings. It's a sad place.

Well look on the bright side at least you still have Awakenings to acquire. I got it and finished in two days and now....... :(

:D

195 webevintage  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:25:01pm

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. When Bush was the President it was "patriotic" to critique the President.

I thought it was treason.
Time of war and all that....

196 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:25:04pm

re: #189 Cannadian Club Akbar

Carter supports Hamas. "Nuff said.

He laid a wreath for Arrafish.

197 McSpiff  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:26:09pm

re: #183 Aceofwhat?

the congress has authority over war-making powers?

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

...

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

198 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:26:09pm

re: #196 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

He laid a wreath for Arrafish.

Fucking scum.

199 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:26:10pm

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

Luckily, though, Spanish speakers tend to be very encouraging, and appreciate people just trying to speak Spanish.

I can verify that! I studied French and Latin in school, and just picked up Spanish here and there. For a few years I supervised some staff who were half Spanish-only, half-barely-adequate with English. The result - they heard me speak half pigeon Spanish, half French or Latin words, pronounced like Spanish,that I thought were spanish, and the other half just me flapping my arms and pointing. They almost always got it right. I'd like to see French speaking employees do as well. BONUS - a few guys I'd had over a year had mastered English by then. I like to think my total incompetence in their language was motivational.

200 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:26:13pm

re: #195 webevintage

I thought it was treason.
Time of war and all that...

Logan Act. See Miss America.

201 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:26:49pm

re: #188 Cato the Elder

They did until the advent of the Imperial Presidency.

Technically I agree that Congress is the body to authorize a formal declaration of war. However, generally speaking, I believe that in the "gray zone" of what many term concurrent power, the President has authority to act unless specifically restricted by Congress, such as affairs relating to tribunals.

202 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:27:10pm

re: #197 McSpiff

When was the last time the USA has declared war? WW2?

203 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:27:26pm

Carter is an idiot when it comes to Israel and Palestine. I like what the man does in regards to Habitat for Humanity and all that but comparing Israel to Apartheid South Africa was an outrageous statement and his idiocy regarding Hamas as well.

204 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:28:07pm

re: #200 Cannadian Club Akbar

Logan Act. See Miss America.

He's talking about citizen protesters not citizens negotiating with foreign governments.

205 McSpiff  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:28:35pm

re: #202 Cannadian Club Akbar

When was the last time the USA has declared war? WW2?

I believe so.

206 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:28:52pm

re: #185 Sigma_x

I can NOT wait to see the faces on these imbeciles when they don't re-take the House or even come close to taking back the Senate. What are they gonna say then? How are they gonna spin that? When the

I don't know enough on the subject to offer an informed opinion either way. But I'm going to do some homework on it. Because I find it troubling that he would be looked down upon so harshly in this regard. I mean, this is the guy behind the Camp David Accord, right?

Read up, and tell me what you make of his recent record. He's been active and very hostile for the past few years.

207 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:28:53pm

re: #199 keloyd

I can verify that! I studied French and Latin in school, and just picked up Spanish here and there. For a few years I supervised some staff who were half Spanish-only, half-barely-adequate with English. The result - they heard me speak half pigeon Spanish, half French or Latin words, pronounced like Spanish,that I thought were spanish, and the other half just me flapping my arms and pointing. They almost always got it right. I'd like to see French speaking employees do as well. BONUS - a few guys I'd had over a year had mastered English by then. I like to think my total incompetence in their language was motivational.

SFZ's pigeon spanish is actually quite comprehensible.

208 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:29:13pm

re: #202 Cannadian Club Akbar

When was the last time the USA has declared war? WW2?

Yep.

209 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:29:22pm

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. When Bush was the President it was "patriotic" to critique the President.

After 9/11 Bush had all of the public backing he needed. He could have been a national leader but he squandered it by following Rove's campaign for a permanent majority. In doing so, he fell from approval ratings higher than FDR during WWII to as low as Nixon. You can blame the American public or you can blame Bush. Sorry, you can also blame Code Pink and Acorn.

210 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:29:45pm

re: #204 Gus 802

He's talking about citizen protesters not citizens negotiating with foreign governments.

Got it. Thanks.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:29:51pm

re: #195 webevintage

I thought it was treason.
Time of war and all that...

Depends who you ask. And when you ask them.

212 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:29:55pm

Actually, to be honest, the absentee line at the grade school used to drive me nuts. To call in that your child would be gone for the day, you had to dial a number and then listen to a lengthy message explaining exactly what to say first in English, then in Spanish.

I have too much ADD to listen to a message twice that I didn't want to listen to once, and no, they had no "press a button and skip to the end" part.

213 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:30:45pm

re: #192 MandyManners

And, courageous.

[Video]

We have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!

214 Jadespring  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:31:08pm

BBL

I think I'm going to go watch a gardening show before making the eggs benny for dinner.

215 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:31:15pm

re: #203 HappyWarrior

Carter is an idiot when it comes to Israel and Palestine. I like what the man does in regards to Habitat for Humanity and all that but comparing Israel to Apartheid South Africa was an outrageous statement and his idiocy regarding Hamas as well.

My instinct tells me to make excuses for Carter in this regard; such as he's an old man now and he's probably not as sharp as he used to be. But, all in all, I'm pretty sure his main objective is to just achieve peace in the middle east. He's a man of peace, that I know. I can not, for even a second, believe that he's an "Israeli-hater."

But, again, I don't know enough about it to make an informed opinion. If he fucked up with his stance on Palestine, then he fucked up. But I don't think it should completely negate all his other achievements and good qualities.

216 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:31:24pm

re: #209 Olsonist

I was talking about politicians.

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:32:03pm

re: #209 Olsonist

After 9/11 Bush had all of the public backing he needed. He could have been a national leader but he squandered it by following Rove's campaign for a permanent majority. In doing so, he fell from approval ratings higher than FDR during WWII to as low as Nixon. You can blame the American public or you can blame Bush. Sorry, you can also blame Code Pink and Acorn.

"I'm gonna smoke 'em out...and then I'm gonna smoke 'em back in again. And then I'm gonna smoke 'em out again...and then I'm gonna smoke 'em back in again. Why? Because I can. My approval rating's like a hundred and six percent or something."

What was that, MadTV or SNL?

218 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:32:19pm

re: #185 Sigma_x

I don't know enough on the subject to offer an informed opinion either way. But I'm going to do some homework on it. Because I find it troubling that he would be looked down upon so harshly in this regard. I mean, this is the guy behind the Camp David Accord, right?

You mean the Camp David Accord which the PLO and Fatah and the PA and everyone involved on the Palestinian side have ever since failed to implement even in its most basic requirement that they modify their charter to recognize Israel and cease calling for its destruction? While lying about it in English so effectively that half the bleeding hearts in the world believe that they did? An omission for which Jimmy Carter has to my knowledge never so much as scolded them? That Camp David Accord?

Fuck Jimmy Carter and the Nobel Peace Prize he rides around on.

Oh, and fuck him retroactively for this, too.

219 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:32:36pm

re: #9 Charles

If there's anyone who's even more repulsive than Palin, it's Rick Santorum. This guy should have been run out of Washington years ago.

A fucking men


Anyone remember this picture from his defeat?

220 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:32:38pm

re: #215 Sigma_x

Guess I'll re post this.

221 webevintage  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:33:02pm

re: #212 EmmmieG

Actually, to be honest, the absentee line at the grade school used to drive me nuts. To call in that your child would be gone for the day, you had to dial a number and then listen to a lengthy message explaining exactly what to say first in English, then in Spanish.

Yeah.
That would make me stabby.

222 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:33:12pm

re: #203 HappyWarrior

Carter is an idiot when it comes to Israel and Palestine. I like what the man does in regards to Habitat for Humanity and all that but comparing Israel to Apartheid South Africa was an outrageous statement and his idiocy regarding Hamas as well.

I agree, and also think "Israel Hater" is too strong. Carter has this 'defend the underdog' thing. His take on Hamas is flagrantly at odds with the real world. I have Palestinian friends, so I have a degree of familiarity with the players as well as the crap we see on the media. He also facilitated peace for Israel during his presidency with Egypt. We should use words like "hate" more judiciously. Other words like "irrational", "85 years old", "selectively honest", "naive" - those need more use, imho.

223 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:33:24pm

re: #215 Sigma_x

I'm pretty sure his main objective is to just achieve peace in the middle east. He's a man of peace, that I know. I can not, for even a second, believe that he's an "Israeli-hater."

By supporting terrorists? Hamas terrorists who's charter tells them to push Israel into the sea? Are you for real?

224 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:33:49pm

re: #215 Sigma_x

But, again, I don't know enough about it to make an informed opinion.

You have an exciting educational opportunity before you.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:33:57pm

re: #212 EmmmieG

Actually, to be honest, the absentee line at the grade school used to drive me nuts. To call in that your child would be gone for the day, you had to dial a number and then listen to a lengthy message explaining exactly what to say first in English, then in Spanish.

I have too much ADD to listen to a message twice that I didn't want to listen to once, and no, they had no "press a button and skip to the end" part.

Here in the Bay Area we have autodialers that call and tell you that your kid is not in school today. They speak a variety of languages.

One of my students told me that when his folks enrolled him, the form asked if languages other than English were spoken in the home, and not sure why they were asking, his dad put down French, because Grandma speaks it occasionally.

The autodialer called in French, confusing the hell out of the parents.

226 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:33:58pm

re: #215 Sigma_x

My instinct tells me to make excuses for Carter in this regard; such as he's an old man now and he's probably not as sharp as he used to be. But, all in all, I'm pretty sure his main objective is to just achieve peace in the middle east. He's a man of peace, that I know. I can not, for even a second, believe that he's an "Israeli-hater."

But, again, I don't know enough about it to make an informed opinion. If he fucked up with his stance on Palestine, then he fucked up. But I don't think it should completely negate all his other achievements and good qualities.

You might want to look up what Carter did regarding Mugabe/Zimbabwe and East Timor.

227 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:34:13pm

re: #207 Aceofwhat?

SFZ's pigeon spanish is actually quite comprehensible.

Pigeons speak Spanish?

Or did you mean "pidgin"?

228 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:34:26pm

re: #222 keloyd

I agree, and also think "Israel Hater" is too strong. Carter has this 'defend the underdog' thing. His take on Hamas is flagrantly at odds with the real world. I have Palestinian friends, so I have a degree of familiarity with the players as well as the crap we see on the media. He also facilitated peace for Israel during his presidency with Egypt. We should use words like "hate" more judiciously. Other words like "irrational", "85 years old", "selectively honest", "naive" - those need more use, imho.

Thank you - you said that much more eloquently and succinctly than I ever could have.

229 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:34:48pm

re: #225 SanFranciscoZionist

Here in the Bay Area we have autodialers that call and tell you that your kid is not in school today. They speak a variety of languages.

One of my students told me that when his folks enrolled him, the form asked if languages other than English were spoken in the home, and not sure why they were asking, his dad put down French, because Grandma speaks it occasionally.

The autodialer called in French, confusing the hell out of the parents.

Ah, so a smart kid would put down Swahili, and then just tell the parents they had started getting spam calls asking for money to help a Nigerian general's widow.

230 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:34:52pm

re: #215 Sigma_x

I can not, for even a second, believe that he's an "Israeli-hater." But, again, I don't know enough about it to make an informed opinion. If he fucked up with his stance on Palestine, then he fucked up. But I don't think it should completely negate all his other achievements and good qualities.

Instincts are not the most reliable of things. And it's not just one fuck-up. He's worked long and hard to negate his other achievements (what were those again?)

231 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:35:04pm

Carter is a Dbag.

232 MandyManners  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:35:35pm
233 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:35:53pm

re: #215 Sigma_x

My instinct tells me to make excuses for Carter in this regard; such as he's an old man now and he's probably not as sharp as he used to be. But, all in all, I'm pretty sure his main objective is to just achieve peace in the middle east. He's a man of peace, that I know.

You don't know anything but jack shit, and jack is out in the back fixing a tire.

234 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:36:02pm

re: #227 Cato the Elder

Pigeons speak Spanish?

Or did you mean "pidgin"?

I was quoting the previous poster. But i agree that pidgin is the correct term. good stuff-

235 webevintage  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:36:13pm

re: #218 Cato the Elder

Oh, and fuck him retroactively for this, too.

I think the greatest failing of Regan (among his many failings) was to sneer at ways to conserve energy and get rid of pretty much any conservation laws and tax credits/grants.

236 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:36:37pm

re: #219 WindUpBird

A fucking men

Anyone remember this picture from his defeat?

Oh yeah!!! hahaha

237 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:36:45pm

I don't have exact references for this but it's a safe bet that most of the presidents spoke at least one foreign language. In the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, ALL educated people had studied French and Latin.
This was the pattern up to about 1850 for French and for long past that with Latin. Theodore Roosevelt was interested in languages and definitely spoke German and French and quite possibly others. In recent years, I know Bush is fairly fluent in Spanish and Carter and Reagan were passable.

238 Linden Arden  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:37:08pm

Carter wasn't the last US president to stupidly rush into the Middle East in a vain attempt to remake it.

At least his effort cost very little.

239 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:37:13pm

Jimmy Carter And Human Rights: Behind The Media Myth

Inaugurated 13 months after Indonesia's December 1975 invasion of East Timor, Carter stepped up U.S. military aid to the Jakarta regime as it continued to murder Timorese civilians. By the time Carter left office, about 200,000 people had been slaughtered.

Elsewhere, despotic allies — from Ferdinand Marcos of the Philippines to the Shah of Iran — received support from President Carter.

In El Salvador, the Carter administration provided key military aid to a brutal regime. In Nicaragua, contrary to myth, Carter backed dictator Anastasio Somoza almost until the end of his reign. In Guatemala — again contrary to enduring myth — major U.S. military shipments to bloody tyrants never ended.

240 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:37:17pm

re: #235 webevintage

I think the greatest failing of Regan (among his many failings) was to sneer at ways to conserve energy and get rid of pretty much any conservation laws and tax credits/grants.

So, I should inflate my tires?
/

241 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:37:20pm

Hay it's the jimmy carter sucks ass thread and also he is a bloodthirsty hitleresque anti-semite also he's Mum-Ra someone rescue Snarf from him thread this is totally original discourse that I have never ever heard before ever

I'll be over here with the popcorn waiting for CarterStorm 2010 blows over...

242 MandyManners  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:37:42pm
243 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:37:55pm

re: #215 Sigma_x

You can't fight CarterStorm(tm)!

it's like a hurricane, ya just gotta ride it out :D

244 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:38:14pm

re: #241 WindUpBird

Hay it's the jimmy carter sucks ass thread and also he is a bloodthirsty hitleresque anti-semite also he's Mum-Ra someone rescue Snarf from him thread this is totally original discourse that I have never ever heard before ever

I'll be over here with the popcorn waiting for CarterStorm 2010 blows over...

Hey! Don't blame me. I voted for Carter.

D'oh!

245 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:38:19pm

re: #239 Gus 802

Jimmy Carter And Human Rights: Behind The Media Myth

All in the name of peace.

/spit

246 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:38:22pm

re: #237 Shiplord Kirel

I don't have exact references for this but it's a safe bet that most of the presidents spoke at least one foreign language. In the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, ALL educated people had studied French and Latin.
This was the pattern up to about 1850 for French and for long past that with Latin. Theodore Roosevelt was interested in languages and definitely spoke German and French and quite possibly others. In recent years, I know Bush is fairly fluent in Spanish and Carter and Reagan were passable.

Off the top of my head--

Van Buren spoke Dutch. In the home, I think.

I would be surprised if Lincoln spoke anything but English.

247 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:38:24pm

re: #222 keloyd

I agree, and also think "Israel Hater" is too strong. Carter has this 'defend the underdog' thing. His take on Hamas is flagrantly at odds with the real world. I have Palestinian friends, so I have a degree of familiarity with the players as well as the crap we see on the media. He also facilitated peace for Israel during his presidency with Egypt. We should use words like "hate" more judiciously. Other words like "irrational", "85 years old", "selectively honest", "naive" - those need more use, imho.

At some point, a track record like Carter's (Mugabe? Hello???) transcends innocent stupidity.

248 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:38:49pm

re: #236 Stanley Sea

Oh yeah!!! hahaha

My favorite is his kid on the far right! He looks like HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE THERE

249 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:39:03pm

re: #244 Gus 802

Hey! Don't blame me. I voted for Carter.

D'oh!

I blame you!!
///

250 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:39:27pm

re: #244 Gus 802

Hey! Don't blame me. I voted for Carter.

D'oh!

bwahahahahaha

I voted for Carter...BILLY CARTER

This round's on me (hic)

251 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:39:27pm

re: #245 NJDhockeyfan

All in the name of peace.

/spit

Yeah, his reputation in some circles doesn't match his history.

252 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:39:47pm

Oops.

253 webevintage  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:40:00pm

re: #219 WindUpBird

A fucking men

Anyone remember this picture from his defeat?

If only they were blond they would have a total "Children of the Corn" vibe.

254 researchok  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:40:16pm

re: #222 keloyd

I agree, and also think "Israel Hater" is too strong. Carter has this 'defend the underdog' thing. His take on Hamas is flagrantly at odds with the real world. I have Palestinian friends, so I have a degree of familiarity with the players as well as the crap we see on the media. He also facilitated peace for Israel during his presidency with Egypt. We should use words like "hate" more judiciously. Other words like "irrational", "85 years old", "selectively honest", "naive" - those need more use, imho.

Actually, Sadat 'facilitated' peace with Israel. It was he and not Carter that was determined to make a deal after he was invited to address the Israeli Knesset by Begin.

Carter went along for the ride and then took credit for it.

255 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:40:26pm

re: #238 Linden Arden

Carter wasn't the last US president to stupidly rush into the Middle East in a vain attempt to remake it.

At least his effort cost very little.

give me someone who can tell the bad guys from the good guys any day.

256 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:40:47pm

Okay, had to look this up--

Neither Lincoln nor Washington spoke a foreign language.

257 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:40:57pm

re: #243 WindUpBird

You can't fight CarterStorm(tm)!

it's like a hurricane, ya just gotta ride it out :D

i thought you liked facts;)

258 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:41:09pm

re: #253 webevintage

If only they were blond they would have a total "Children of the Corn" vibe.

Stephen King's SANTORUM, in paperback now!

259 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:41:24pm

re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar

I blame you!!
///

Indeed. Of course, he lost that election.

260 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:41:45pm

re: #256 EmmmieG

Okay, had to look this up--

Neither Lincoln nor Washington spoke a foreign language.

There weren't any then, IIRC.:)

261 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:42:08pm

re: #257 Aceofwhat?

i thought you liked facts;)

I love facts. Calling carter an "anti-semite" is not a fact, it's a Godwin crazy train. Carter was a bad president and made some horrible and naive decisions, but we're shaking hands with Godwin at the moment.

262 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:42:32pm

re: #246 EmmmieG

Off the top of my head--

Van Buren spoke Dutch. In the home, I think.

I would be surprised if Lincoln spoke anything but English.

From the eloquence of his writing, I would bet that at some point he taught himself Latin.

263 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:43:07pm

re: #258 WindUpBird

Stephen King's SANTORUM, in paperback now!


No. Read "The Boggeyman". Scared the shit out of me.

264 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:44:43pm

re: #261 WindUpBird

I love facts. Calling carter an "anti-semite" is not a fact, it's a Godwin crazy train. Carter was a bad president and made some horrible and naive decisions, but we're shaking hands with Godwin at the moment.

Carter is and has long been an enabler of anti-Semitic terrorists. Godwin doesn't even enter the picture.

265 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:44:44pm

re: #261 WindUpBird

I love facts. Calling carter an "anti-semite" is not a fact, it's a Godwin crazy train. Carter was a bad president and made some horrible and naive decisions, but we're shaking hands with Godwin at the moment.

There were a great deal of anti-Semitic reactions to Carter's books according to the ADL.

See more here: "Jimmy Carter" site:adl.org - Google Search

266 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:44:52pm

re: #263 Cannadian Club Akbar

Googles*

It's in Night Shift! I know I have that here somewhere


I gotta love Stephen King, he loves possessed cars, and his Dark Tower books are illustrated by like half a dozen of my favorite artists.

267 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:44:58pm

Jefferson I believe spoke Greek and or French. Some people just have a knack at foreign languages. During the polyglot performances here on campus this past week, I learned that the Russian poet, Pushkin spoke over a dozen language. Unfriggingbelievable since I only know English and that's hard enough as is at times.

268 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:45:12pm

re: #261 WindUpBird

I love facts. Calling carter an "anti-semite" is not a fact, it's a Godwin crazy train. Carter was a bad president and made some horrible and naive decisions, but we're shaking hands with Godwin at the moment.

So, supporting terror orgs isn't anti-Israel?

269 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:46:13pm

re: #260 Cannadian Club Akbar

There weren't any then, IIRC.:)


hahahaha.

John Adams, despite coming from a much less privileged background than Washington*, was a Harvard graduate.

*Just about everybody in the colonies came from a less privileged background than Washington, except for maybe Thomas Jefferson.

270 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:46:29pm

re: #266 WindUpBird

You can find it in "Children of the Corn and Other Short Stories." :)

271 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:46:47pm

re: #264 Cato the Elder

Carter is and has long been an enabler of anti-Semitic terrorists. Godwin doesn't even enter the picture.

There's a difference between being a dude whose policies enable terrible things, and being that guy who hates jews. One is stupid/clueless, the other's good old fashioned evil. I have a hard time believing carter is evil. But that's just me!

272 webevintage  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:46:53pm

re: #241 WindUpBird

I'll be over here with the popcorn waiting for CarterStorm 2010 blows over...

I have homemade biscuits here.
(I'm on a biscuit kick right now, trying to make the perfect ones. I really like the ones I made yesterday with yogurt as one of the fats.)

273 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:47:16pm

re: #268 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, supporting terror orgs isn't anti-Israel?

hahaha we're done here, I'm not going to be a part of CarterStorm 2010 :)

274 lostlakehiker  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:47:47pm

re: #24 Cato the Elder

The ESA? She sued the ESA?

Which one? The European Space Agency? The Entertainment Software Association? The Entomological Society of America?

I'm betting it was the Endangered Species Act. How do you sue an Act? Well, you don't. You sue the agency that manages the Act, in this case probably the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency. Run by evil Progs.

The citizens of Alaska voted twice to ban the "sport" of hunting wolves from aircraft, and twice this smirking beeyotch vetoed the will of the people.

As for who will invent the next big energy source, it might be an American - or an immigrant from India or Thailand. Or a scientist in China or Russia. Or a kid in a magnet school in Madagascar. Phony patriotism makes me puke.

This woman is so cheerily poisonous it goes beyond words.

Woot!

What bothers me is that by talking about the next energy source as something that has yet to be invented, she's putting wind, solar, nuclear, and bio off to the side. Nope, won't be any of those.

But there's nothing else. That's it. The list is exhaustive. True, hydro power and geothermal and tidal aren't there, but they will never be able to take up the slack. They cannot be scaled sufficiently.

This puts her openness to alternative energy into the fairytale category. Not that the Republicans have a monopoly of that. Who was it who didn't want wind power off Nantuckett? Who was it who didn't want nuclear waste stored at Yucca flats, (or anywhere else, for that matter)? Who was willing to see nuclear power plants built, but only after we'd solved a problem that had in fact already been solved?

We will only rarely have statesmen and visionaries with true vision for leaders. Thus it falls to us, the citizenry, to lead our leaders to an understanding of the fact that green energy is so important that it must override lesser green-ness, such as keeping the horizon of Nantuckett island free of "visual pollution", or sparing ourselves the effectively zilch risks of storing nuclear waste deep below an already empty desert.

We have to have civic courage. It's not much to ask, that we not flinch from dangers that exist only in comic books, all the while accepting without murmur the usual and familiar carnage on our roads and in our coal mines.

275 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:47:52pm

re: #272 webevintage

I have homemade biscuits here.
(I'm on a biscuit kick right now, trying to make the perfect ones. I really like the ones I made yesterday with yogurt as one of the fats.)

Biscuits need lard. Just sayin'.

276 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:47:56pm

re: #272 webevintage

I have homemade biscuits here.
(I'm on a biscuit kick right now, trying to make the perfect ones. I really like the ones I made yesterday with yogurt as one of the fats.)

I want biscuits! ;_; All I have here are wasabi crackers, which are really not the best breakfast...

277 researchok  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:48:41pm

re: #265 Gus 802

There were a great deal of anti-Semitic reactions to Carter's books according to the ADL.

See more here: "Jimmy Carter" site:adl.org - Google Search

I believe Carter is an antisemite- only he doesn't recognize that reality. He really sees himself as equitable. He really is blind to his own biases.

Recall that the Chief Librarian of his own presidential library quit after he published his abominable 'Peace, Not Apartheid'.

278 Linden Arden  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:50:21pm

The "new" Tiger Woods is no more, fwiw.

After saying in a press conference he would be more humble he just hit a bad tee shot on #6 and let go a string of expletives on national TV.

Its gonna be a hell of a day in Augusta.

279 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:50:26pm

Having promised a child I would take him to buy his new supersoaker,* I must now deliver.

*45 degrees and blowing. No, it makes no sense.

280 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:50:41pm

re: #273 WindUpBird

hahaha we're done here, I'm not going to be a part of CarterStorm 2010 :)

What is CarterStorm?

281 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:50:54pm

Put me down in the "Carter's most likely an anti-semite" column.

282 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:51:09pm

I finished reading Ted Kennedy's autobio a couple months back. Really didn't get that positive an impression out of Carter reading that. He just came across as too rigid and grudge holding for me to really like. It really bugs me that some people on the left try to make his presidency out to be better than it was because they like some of the stuff he did after he left office. Not saying anyone here is doing that but I've seen it done. Heck, the reasons why I dislike Carter honestly is from a liberal perspective quite honestly. I would have supported Kennedy in 1980 easily.

283 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:51:22pm

Jimmy Carter negotiated a lasting peace between Israel and Egypt.
Yep, he's an anti-semite.

284 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:52:32pm

re: #283 Olsonist

Jimmy Carter negotiated a lasting peace between Israel and Egypt.
Yep, he's an anti-semite.

And Egypt was a wall to keep out Palestinians.

285 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:52:32pm

re: #283 Olsonist

Jimmy Carter negotiated a lasting peace between Israel and Egypt.

Yep, he's an anti-semite.

Carter supports Hamas. Yep, he's an anti-Semite enabler.

286 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:53:16pm

re: #261 WindUpBird

I love facts. Calling carter an "anti-semite" is not a fact, it's a Godwin crazy train. Carter was a bad president and made some horrible and naive decisions, but we're shaking hands with Godwin at the moment.

"I find it impossible to defend Jimmy Carter against the charge that what he did and said during the period under examination amounted to anti-Semitism, whatever it was that drove him to say and do it: most probably, an iconoclastic temperament."

287 webevintage  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:53:18pm

re: #275 Cannadian Club Akbar

Biscuits need lard. Just sayin'.

Well it depends.
These had butter and yogurt as the fat and used cake flour.
really, really good and delicate.
The ones I made today used buttermilk and veg short (Crisco) for the fats. Very good. I used self rising flour for the first time...

Sunday will be biscuits with lard and whole milk.

288 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:53:20pm

re: #283 Olsonist

Alan Dershowitz, Icon of the left certainly thinks so.

[Link: www.campus-watch.org...]

289 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:53:38pm

Anti-Semitic Reactions to Jimmy Carter's Book: White Supremacists


Many scholars and experts on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have strongly criticized Jimmy Carter's book, "Palestine Peace Not Apartheid," for its distortions, misrepresentations, and one-sided arguments that blame Israel for the conflict while giving the Palestinians a pass. Yet the book is being celebrated in online white supremacist forums for its anti-Israel, conspiratorial and anti-Semitic propaganda value. Some white supremacists in the United States have embraced the message of Carter's book, pointing to criticism by supporters of Israel as confirmation of their anti-Semitic notions of Jewish power.

As a result, various online anti-Semitic forums have hailed Carter's book in diatribes laced with anti-Semitic invective. White supremacists, who already focus much of their hatred on Jews and believe that "Zionists" and Israel control the U.S. government and create the world's problems, welcomed President Carter's book as an affirmation of their warped anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

White supremacist forums such as Stormfront, the longest-running white supremacist Web site on the Internet, Aryan Nations Forum, a Web forum operated by the South Carolina-based Aryan Nations group headed by August Kreis, and Vanguard News Network (VNN), a white supremacist Web site and discussion forum run by neo-Nazi Alex Linder, have included posts praising President Carter for standing up to the "Zionist lobby" and Israel and reaffirming their views on the inherent evil nature of Jews. Many of the messages expressed support for Carter, claiming that any criticism of his book is an attack by "the Zionists."

Mark Weber of the Institute for Historical Review, a Holocaust denial organization, listed the book along with the conspiratorial paper on the "Israel Lobby" by professors John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt as one of the year's crowning achievements, showing the "growing awareness of Jewish-Zionist power."

290 researchok  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:54:33pm

As an aside, Sadat's biggest peace booster was his wife, Jihan Sadat.

It was she who encouraged him after reading Golda Meirs' remarks about the Yom Kippur War.

She said that she could forgive the Arabs for killing young Israeli 'boys' (soldiers). She could not however, forgive the Arabs for forcing the Israelis to kill kill Arab 'boys'.

291 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:54:44pm

re: #288 Thanos

Alan Dershowitz, former Icon of the left certainly thinks so.

[Link: www.campus-watch.org...]

FTFY ;)

292 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:54:46pm

re: #287 webevintage

Well it depends.
These had butter and yogurt as the fat and used cake flour.
really, really good and delicate.
The ones I made today used buttermilk and veg short (Crisco) for the fats. Very good. I used self rising flour for the first time...

Sunday will be biscuits with lard and whole milk.

Use the buttermilk and lard. TRUST ME!!

293 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:54:47pm

Holy shit - talk about stirring up a hornet's nest. I had no idea.

294 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:55:34pm

re: #293 Sigma_x

Holy shit - talk about stirring up a hornet's nest. I had no idea.

Fun, ain't it!!!

295 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:55:36pm

re: #293 Sigma_x

Holy shit - talk about stirring up a hornet's nest. I had no idea.

Still think Jimmy Carter is a great guy?

296 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:55:47pm

re: #293 Sigma_x

Holy shit - talk about stirring up a hornet's nest. I had no idea.

hahaha I should have warned you

297 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:55:52pm

re: #271 WindUpBird

There's a difference between being a dude whose policies enable terrible things, and being that guy who hates jews. One is stupid/clueless, the other's good old fashioned evil. I have a hard time believing carter is evil. But that's just me!

Bullshit. You're updinging Ludwig on when he labels blind, willful, and stubborn ignorance which leads to death as "evil". At least do us the favor of a little consistency.

298 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:56:22pm

re: #295 NJDhockeyfan

Still think Jimmy Carter is a great guy?

Pigpile on the new guy!

Makes you feel all internet tough, right? :D YEAH

299 lostlakehiker  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:56:50pm

re: #229 EmmmieG

Ah, so a smart kid would put down Swahili, and then just tell the parents they had started getting spam calls asking for money to help a Nigerian general's widow.

Not so smart. Swahili is not spoken in Nigeria, but rather in Kenya and Tanzania. Africa has more languages than Europe, and that's counting Basque and Flemish and Albanian.

John McWhorter has criticized Afro-centric themed schools for using Swahili for this very reason. That language has nothing in common with the languages spoken in the places where slaves were taken for use in America [a few percent], the Caribbean [more], or Brazil [many more].

While it is the language of the place where slaves were taken for use in the Turkish empire and in Iraq, that's another story and one that these same schools don't touch on. Don't even know about, probably.

And why is there no talk about the harsh legacy of slavery on Afro-Iraqis? Because the Iraqis killed every last one of their slaves, and all their families, after a failed slave revolt, a bit less than a thousand years ago. Why this is not worth a line or two, alongside the accounts of the evils of the western slave trade, is a mystery.

300 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:58:09pm

re: #297 Aceofwhat?

Bullshit. You're updinging Ludwig on when he labels blind, willful, and stubborn ignorance which leads to death as "evil". At least do us the favor of a little consistency.


I say again, not going to get involved in CarterStorm ;-)

I upding Ludwig because he's kicking ass on the AGW deniers. That's the contetx of that. That's why I like him!

301 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:58:34pm

Sigma X- I didn't realize you were new. WELCOME!!

302 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:58:47pm

re: #298 WindUpBird

Pigpile on the new guy!

Makes you feel all internet tough, right? :D YEAH

Obviously you still think Jimmah is A-Okay.

303 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 12:59:41pm

re: #293 Sigma_x

Holy shit - talk about stirring up a hornet's nest. I had no idea.

To be fair, if i wandered here today and said that the sky wasn't blue, there would be a lot of people telling me i was wrong. This isn't exactly old news.

304 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:00:04pm

re: #298 WindUpBird

Pigpile on the new guy!
Makes you feel all internet tough, right? :D YEAH


My inner comic-book-store-guy is amused.

305 McSpiff  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:00:36pm

re: #293 Sigma_x

Holy shit - talk about stirring up a hornet's nest. I had no idea.

It's all good. Debate is a full conract sport here. Don't be afraid to defend your opinions, its rare people take those personally. Just wait, people that are jumping down your throat for the 'mind-numbingly stupid' offense of defending Carter will be the first to jump to your defense next thread. Really its what makes LGF great. Don't be a dick, and people will treat you good for the most part, regardless of your politics.

306 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:00:48pm

re: #302 NJDhockeyfan

Obviously you still think Jimmah is A-Okay.

He (Carter) supports terrorist freedom fighters!!!

307 Linden Arden  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:01:02pm

re: #295 NJDhockeyfan

Still think Jimmy Carter is a great guy?

Middle East aside Carter was an uneventful president.

Inflation was raging out of control in the Nixon/Ford years and Carter eventually did the only thing any president did to control it - hire Volcker.

The wingnuts' whipping boy's only real domestic policy legacy was his deregulation.

308 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:01:10pm

re: #261 WindUpBird

I love facts. Calling carter an "anti-semite" is not a fact, it's a Godwin crazy train. Carter was a bad president and made some horrible and naive decisions, but we're shaking hands with Godwin at the moment.

I would not have classified him as such until his independent 'work' of the past several years, publishing 'Palestine: Peace, Not Apartheid', and his general craziness on the subject of late.

309 McSpiff  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:01:23pm

re: #305 McSpiff

PIMF, contact

310 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:01:30pm

re: #295 NJDhockeyfan

Still think Jimmy Carter is a great guy?

Yes, all things considered, I DO still think Carter is a "great man." I am going to have to do a lot more research on the subject (a subject I, currently, know nothing about) before I disregard an opinion I've had of the man for well nigh 25 years.

I can disagree with someone on a particular issue and still think they're good people.

311 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:01:36pm

re: #300 WindUpBird

I say again, not going to get involved in CarterStorm ;-)

I upding Ludwig because he's kicking ass on the AGW deniers. That's the contetx of that. That's why I like him!

And we're kicking ass on the Carter deniers. No whining. Facts are facts.

312 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:01:39pm

re: #305 McSpiff

Up ding.

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:02:04pm

re: #267 HappyWarrior

Jefferson I believe spoke Greek and or French. Some people just have a knack at foreign languages. During the polyglot performances here on campus this past week, I learned that the Russian poet, Pushkin spoke over a dozen language. Unfriggingbelievable since I only know English and that's hard enough as is at times.

My great-grandfather apparently spoke Hebrew, Yiddish and Russian, and then learned English and Italian in the States.

314 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:02:09pm

re: #305 McSpiff

It's all good. Debate is a full conract sport here. Don't be afraid to defend your opinions, its rare people take those personally. Just wait, people that are jumping down your throat for the 'mind-numbingly stupid' offense of defending Carter will be the first to jump to your defense next thread. Really its what makes LGF great. Don't be a dick, and people will treat you good for the most part, regardless of your politics.

agree completely

315 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:02:53pm

re: #308 SanFranciscoZionist

I would not have classified him as such until his independent 'work' of the past several years, publishing 'Palestine: Peace, Not Apartheid', and his general craziness on the subject of late.

enabling Mugabe is also not easily forgiven, IMHO...

316 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:03:05pm

re: #314 Aceofwhat?

agree completely

Screw you, man!!
///

317 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:03:56pm

re: #288 Thanos

Alan Dershowitz, Icon of the left certainly thinks so.

[Link: www.campus-watch.org...]

Alan Dershowitz is an icon of the Left?

318 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:04:34pm

re: #316 Cannadian Club Akbar

Screw you, man!!
///

The buccaneers suck!!

319 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:04:46pm

re: #317 SanFranciscoZionist

When it comes to civil liberties and law he certainly used to be, did that change after he started supporting Israel or something?

320 McSpiff  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:05:03pm

For the record, I still think Carter is more of a ham with a hell of a lot of white guilt(am I allowed to lump Israel in with the 'white' west?) than an evil dude, but sadly his motivations don't make his actions any less destructive.

321 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:05:21pm

re: #288 Thanos

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

My grandfather grew up speaking German. He was from Illinois.

322 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:05:29pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

My great-grandfather apparently spoke Hebrew, Yiddish and Russian, and then learned English and Italian in the States.

Sounds similar to my own great grandfather's experience. He was a native Slovak. Picked up Russian since as a teenage boy he worked on the railroad in Russia, I think he picked up Polish, Italian, and English once he got here from working in the coal mines once he got stateside. Wouldn't shock me if he knew some German as well. Just amazes me that he was able to do that since he had little schooling if any that I know of. Don't know too much about him other than that and that we have the same first name.

323 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:05:40pm

re: #318 Aceofwhat?

The buccaneers suck!!

Now you are just starting a fight!! (and correct)
/

324 ryannon  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:05:48pm

re: #63 iceweasel

If self-awareness is a criterion for personhood you're going to get the result that a lot of animals are persons, and a lot of human beings are not.

I've been saying that for years.

And I have proof.

325 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:05:57pm

Did I just walk in on a family squabble??

326 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:06:29pm

re: #325 reloadingisnotahobby

Did I just walk in on a family squabble??

Actually, no.

327 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:06:43pm

re: #317 SanFranciscoZionist

Allan Dershowitz is an icon?

328 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:08:07pm

re: #299 lostlakehiker


And why is there no talk about the harsh legacy of slavery on Afro-Iraqis? Because the Iraqis killed every last one of their slaves, and all their families, after a failed slave revolt, a bit less than a thousand years ago. Why this is not worth a line or two, alongside the accounts of the evils of the western slave trade, is a mystery.

Possibly because in my history classes I teach the descendents of the western slave trade, while the U.S. curriculum has no particular interest in medieval Iraq aside from a short unit in the seventh grade.

But don't let me stop you from finding terrible things some Arab Muslims somewhere did, that if properly presented, can serve as moral counterweights to terrible things some European Christians somewhere did.

329 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:08:15pm

re: #324 ryannon

I've been saying that for years.

And I have proof.

plus you want a test that baby humans can pass. A really stupid Irish setter, and I'm not aware there's another kind, is more responsive and self-aware than a 1 month old baby.

330 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:09:15pm

Ron Paul is currently stirring up the crowd at the SRLC. He just called out wing-nuts who complain about a president "trampling the constitution" when Bush trampled the constitution by going to war without congressional approval.

Weird.

He just said, "We can do better with peace than with war."

And the crowd booed.

They booed.

331 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:09:26pm

re: #315 Aceofwhat?

enabling Mugabe is also not easily forgiven, IMHO...

But has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. One Carter failing at a time, please.

332 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:09:35pm

re: #329 keloyd

plus you want a test that baby humans can pass. A really stupid Irish setter, and I'm not aware there's another kind, is more responsive and self-aware than a 1 month old baby.

how about being human?

333 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:09:49pm

re: #325 reloadingisnotahobby

Did I just walk in on a family squabble??

No, just Jimmy Carter supports vs Jimmy Carter deniers.

334 Gus  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:10:27pm

re: #330 Sigma_x

Ron Paul is currently stirring up the crowd at the SRLC. He just called out wing-nuts who complain about a president "trampling the constitution" when Bush trampled the constitution by going to war without congressional approval.

Weird.

He just said, "We can do better with peace than with war."

And the crowd booed.

They booed.

More Ron Paul fun here!

[Link: www.c-span.org...]

/

335 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:10:35pm

re: #319 Thanos

When it comes to civil liberties and law he certainly used to be, did that change after he started supporting Israel or something?

I would say he's no longer viewed as a Leftist by the sort of people who call themselves Leftists.

336 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:10:39pm

re: #330 Sigma_x

Ron Paul is currently stirring up the crowd at the SRLC. He just called out wing-nuts who complain about a president "trampling the constitution" when Bush trampled the constitution by going to war without congressional approval.

Weird.

He just said, "We can do better with peace than with war."

And the crowd booed.

They booed.

Great! Ron Paul is a kook.

337 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:10:43pm

re: #310 Sigma_x

I can disagree with someone on a particular issue and still think they're good people.

Not on the internet, you can't. It's Klingon Divorce Court around here.

338 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:10:51pm

re: #331 SanFranciscoZionist

But has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. One Carter failing at a time, please.

*chortle*

You are correct, but part of this is a discussion with a few people who may think that Carter is generally a "good dude".

Zimbabwe and I beg to differ...

339 McSpiff  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:11:06pm

re: #329 keloyd

plus you want a test that baby humans can pass. A really stupid Irish setter, and I'm not aware there's another kind, is more responsive and self-aware than a 1 month old baby.

% of body covered with hair? Sadly I might fail this one...

// am a hairy dude...

340 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:11:11pm

re: #330 Sigma_x

Ron Paul is currently stirring up the crowd at the SRLC. He just called out wing-nuts who complain about a president "trampling the constitution" when Bush trampled the constitution by going to war without congressional approval.

Weird.

He just said, "We can do better with peace than with war."

And the crowd booed.

They booed.

We haven't gone to war with Congressional approval since WW2.

341 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:11:34pm

re: #320 McSpiff

(am I allowed to lump Israel in with the 'white' west?)

I wish you wouldn't. That misunderstanding has enabled more half-assed racist crap from the anti-Israel activists than any other single point.

342 Linden Arden  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:11:37pm

re: #330 Sigma_x

Please let me know if he goes into any Federal Reserve craziness.

(I am watching the Masters).

343 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:11:37pm

re: #321 Olsonist

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

My grandfather grew up speaking German. He was from Illinois.

My grandfather was born in Chicago and spoke Polish until he started school at age 8.

344 reloadingisnotahobby  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:11:53pm

re: #333 NJDhockeyfan

I've always felt he was a great human being!
President? Not so much!

345 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:12:31pm

re: #342 Linden Arden

Please let me know if he goes into any Federal Reserve craziness.

(I am watching the Masters).

That's the only thing I agree with this asshole on. The should open up the FED's balance sheet. Let's see what's on those books.

346 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:12:46pm

re: #335 SanFranciscoZionist

I would say he's no longer viewed as a Leftist by the sort of people who call themselves Leftists.

Agreed, they used to love him for his anti gun stance, and for things like supporting Carter originally, and getting Reems off on porno charges, and other civil liberties cases, etc. That all changed post 9/11 when he came out strongly pro Israel.

347 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:13:04pm

Dave Weigel's twitter:

Paul, on South Korea: "Why do we have troops there?" Heckler: "North Korea!"

[Link: twitter.com...]

348 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:13:07pm

re: #337 negativ

Not on the internet, you can't. It's Klingon Divorce Court around here.

That's the funniest shit I've heard in a while.

349 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:13:18pm

re: #345 Sigma_x

That's the only thing I agree with this asshole on. The should open up the FED's balance sheet. Let's see what's on those books.

They already do that.

350 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:13:20pm

re: #342 Linden Arden

Please let me know if he goes into any Federal Reserve craziness.

(I am watching the Masters).

seeeriously. it would take a large-caliber revolver held to my head to downgrade from the Masters to Luap Nor...i like where your head's at...

351 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:13:37pm

re: #344 reloadingisnotahobby

I've always felt he was a great human being!
President? Not so much!

He should have stayed with Habitat for Humanity and stuck with it. Most people would have forgotten most of the bad things.

352 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:14:19pm

re: #332 Aceofwhat?

if the question is defining what is a human, tests of consciousness or self awareness are problematic. Lots of animals are more self aware and able to pass tests of consciousness or awareness than very early newborns, whom we agree ought to pass that test. They just make a racket and eat and poop. It's just the basic lizard parts of the brain doing most of the work those first few weeks, yet we want babies (and me when I'm asleep) to pass the "is it human" test and Irish setters to score "not human."

353 Linden Arden  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:14:22pm

re: #345 Sigma_x

That's the only thing I agree with this asshole on. The should open up the FED's balance sheet. Let's see what's on those books.

Balance sheet is wide open for all to see.

Incidentally - he voted against his own misnamed "audit the Fed" bill.

354 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:14:43pm

re: #346 Thanos

Agreed, they used to love him for his anti gun stance, and for things like supporting Carter originally, and getting Reems off on porno charges, and other civil liberties cases, etc. That all changed post 9/11 when he came out strongly pro Israel.

He also wrote some really dumb crap justifying torture after 9/11 that I still hold a grudge over, but it's the Israel thing that got him in hot water with the far left.

355 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:15:04pm

re: #345 Sigma_x

That's the only thing I agree with this asshole on. The should open up the FED's balance sheet. Let's see what's on those books.

Another exciting educational opportunity! [For you I mean, not from "what's on those books".]

356 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:15:38pm

re: #347 Stanley Sea

Dave Weigel's twitter:

Paul, on South Korea: "Why do we have troops there?" Heckler: "North Korea!"

[Link: twitter.com...]

Imagine the chaos in the world if Ron Paul were to get elected president.
[shudder]

357 McSpiff  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:15:50pm

re: #341 SanFranciscoZionist

I wish you wouldn't. That misunderstanding has enabled more half-assed racist crap from the anti-Israel activists than any other single point.

Yeah, I seriously questioned how to phrase that. I more meant that Carter viewed 'our side' as bad (traditional western society) and this can be seen through his support of Zimbabwe, Indonesia, various south American dictatorships. Basically anyone who 'threw off the chains of white oppression'. But he didn't support Israel because they are on 'our side'. I really am over my head here, seeing as I wasn't even born during the Carter admin, or the majority of the Regan admin either. Hope I'm making some semblance of sense.

358 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:16:38pm

re: #356 NJDhockeyfan

Imagine the chaos in the world if Ron Paul were to get elected president.
[shudder]

Wonder how he'll do against Palin in the straw poll. Tonight at 6.

359 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:16:40pm

re: #352 keloyd

if the question is defining what is a human, tests of consciousness or self awareness are problematic. Lots of animals are more self aware and able to pass tests of consciousness or awareness than very early newborns, whom we agree ought to pass that test. They just make a racket and eat and poop. It's just the basic lizard parts of the brain doing most of the work those first few weeks, yet we want babies (and me when I'm asleep) to pass the "is it human" test and Irish setters to score "not human."

well, getting the species right helps/

but brain wave activity helps. Terry Schiavo, God rest her soul, was no longer human IMHO. a baby is an immature human.

and animals are self-aware? did i miss an astounding new headline?

360 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:16:49pm

re: #354 SanFranciscoZionist

He also wrote some really dumb crap justifying torture after 9/11 that I still hold a grudge over, but it's the Israel thing that got him in hot water with the far left.

Correct - but that doesn't belie the fact that the left formerly loved him. Now he's considered a pariah by some, just as Charles is considered a pariah by those on the hard right although he was formerly beloved by them.

361 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:17:12pm

Ron Paul = nuts.

362 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:18:46pm

re: #357 McSpiff

Yeah, I seriously questioned how to phrase that. I more meant that Carter viewed 'our side' as bad (traditional western society) and this can be seen through his support of Zimbabwe, Indonesia, various south American dictatorships. Basically anyone who 'threw off the chains of white oppression'. But he didn't support Israel because they are on 'our side'. I really am over my head here, seeing as I wasn't even born during the Carter admin, or the majority of the Regan admin either. Hope I'm making some semblance of sense.

Yes, you're totally making sense, and of course, a lot of Carter's attitude about Israel does come from that source--as does a lot of anti-Israel sentiment carefully nurtured by the international Left.

It's just a massive gripe of mine, nurtured by being an Israel activist who went to college in the identity politics heydey of the early 90s.

363 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:19:00pm

re: #349 Cannadian Club Akbar

They already do that.


The FED needs to be audited. Period. Yeah, their balance sheet is open; we know they have 1.5 trillion in garbage MBS's on it. But that's about it. Other than that, it's completely opaque

364 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:20:39pm

Linden - since i know you're watching - do you ever wish that everyone would just shut up and give the microphone to Feherty for six hours?

365 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:20:48pm

re: #363 Sigma_x

I'm sorry. I have to ask. Are you a Paulian?
(no snark. I have friends that are.)

366 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:21:12pm

re: #364 Aceofwhat?

Linden - since i know you're watching - do you ever wish that everyone would just shut up and give the microphone to Feherty for six hours?

Hell yeah! Love that guy.

367 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:21:20pm

Former President Carter confronted on C-SPAN by caller who calls him an 'anti-Semite'.

368 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:21:26pm

re: #363 Sigma_x

The FED needs to be audited. Period. Yeah, their balance sheet is open; we know they have 1.5 trillion in garbage MBS's on it. But that's about it. Other than that, it's completely opaque

Audited by whom? Congress? You want Congress to have control over the money supply? That's a recipe for greater disaster than we already have.

369 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:21:33pm

re: #359 Aceofwhat?and animals are self-aware? did i miss an astounding new headline?

Yeah, from 40 years ago.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

370 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:21:39pm

re: #365 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm sorry. I have to ask. Are you a Paulian?
(no snark. I have friends that are.)

Oh, hell no. Not at ALL. The man is clearly insane.

I do, however, agree with him that the FED should be audited.

371 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:21:52pm

re: #341 SanFranciscoZionist

I wish you wouldn't. That misunderstanding has enabled more half-assed racist crap from the anti-Israel activists than any other single point.

I'm on the outside looking in on this, but aren't most Israelis, living in Israel descended from Ashkenazis? They carry European (including Russian) culture and DNA along with Jewish faith and history. In my mind, the dufus on some college campus indulging in self pity about his ancestors' treatment of American Indians, the hollywood dufus apologizing to the Japanese for Hiroshima, and a third dufus blaming Israel for Hamas's hatred - they appear to be cut from similar cloth. Psychologically, the same trustafarian self-loathing thing is happening in all 3 cases.

372 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:22:06pm

re: #370 Sigma_x

Oh, hell no. Not at ALL. The man is clearly insane.

I do, however, agree with him that the FED should be audited.

K.

373 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:22:32pm

re: #368 wrenchwench

Audited by whom? Congress? You want Congress to have control over the money supply? That's a recipe for greater disaster than we already have.

A non-partisan, independent group. Like the CBO.

374 palomino  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:22:41pm

Palin in 2012? This ignorant snark machine getting the GOP nod? I still don't see it. She excites the base, but is a joke to most of the rest of the country. The GOP establishment, and the strategists in the party, all know this.

The GOP may be going off the rails crazy, but they still want to win the election. And she's probably the weakest candidate they could field.

375 McSpiff  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:23:01pm

re: #362 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, you're totally making sense, and of course, a lot of Carter's attitude about Israel does come from that source--as does a lot of anti-Israel sentiment carefully nurtured by the international Left.

It's just a massive gripe of mine, nurtured by being an Israel activist who went to college in the identity politics heydey of the early 90s.

I appreciate it. Anti-Israeli types tend to be exceptionally good at twisting language to mean whatever they want it to, so I always try to be careful that my message of support doesn't get twisted into something I don't mean. I was accused of being pro-Hamas by the stalker blog early on and it was a slightly jarring experience.

376 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:23:08pm

re: #369 negativ

and animals are self-aware? did i miss an astounding new headline?


Yeah, from 40 years ago.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Oh, brother. That test is ridiculous.

377 Linden Arden  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:23:37pm

re: #364 Aceofwhat?

Linden - since i know you're watching - do you ever wish that everyone would just shut up and give the microphone to Feherty for six hours?

Yes - but on another tournament.

Dave would get fired by the Masters committee if he ran wild.

They axed McCord for the "faster than bikini wax" comment. Ferherty is capable of real controversy.

378 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:23:49pm

re: #373 Sigma_x

A non-partisan, independent group. Like the CBO.

The Congressional Budget Office? Yikes.

379 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:24:21pm

re: #337 negativ

Not on the internet, you can't. It's Klingon Divorce Court around here.


You win the internet!

380 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:24:23pm

re: #377 Linden Arden

Yes - but on another tournament.

Dave would get fired by the Masters committee if he ran wild.

They axed McCord for the "faster than bikini wax" comment. Ferherty is capable of real controversy.

That's why I love him.

381 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:24:29pm

This right here is a perfect example of the fractures within the present-day GOP - Ron Paul being booed and cheered in equal measures at the same time at the SRLC.

382 Linden Arden  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:24:42pm

re: #373 Sigma_x

A non-partisan, independent group. Like the CBO.

Like Deloitte and Touche?

(their auditors)

383 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:24:57pm

Let Congress be in control of the Fed. They won't spend the money. See: Social Security.

384 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:25:31pm

re: #382 Linden Arden

Like Deloitte and Touche?

(their auditors)

I don't think we can afford them.

Maybe Arthur Anderson.

385 Linden Arden  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:26:55pm

re: #363 Sigma_x

The FED needs to be audited. Period. Yeah, their balance sheet is open; we know they have 1.5 trillion in garbage MBS's on it. But that's about it. Other than that, it's completely opaque

Bernanke will make billions for the taxpayer on that garbage MBS.

386 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:27:03pm

re: #375 McSpiff

I appreciate it. Anti-Israeli types tend to be exceptionally good at twisting language to mean whatever they want it to, so I always try to be careful that my message of support doesn't get twisted into something I don't mean. I was accused of being pro-Hamas by the stalker blog early on and it was a slightly jarring experience.

heh. don't think that anything the stalkerbabies emit is worth the calories required to read the words on the screen...

387 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:27:34pm

re: #371 keloyd

I'm on the outside looking in on this, but aren't most Israelis, living in Israel descended from Ashkenazis?

No. The big boom in Russian immigration in the 90s tipped the balance toward the Ashkenazim, but the Israeli majority from the early days of the state until then was primarily descended from Sephardim and Mizrahim, many of them descendents of the 900,000 refugees expelled from Arab states after the founding of Israel. The Ashkenazim probably still make up less than half of Israeli Jews, even with the Russians (and some Mizrahim came in with the Soviet immigration, so that confuses things even more.)

As for how much European DNA Ashkenazim carry--I mean Ashkenazim who, unlike me, don't have Irish Catholic Dads...it's not as much as people tend to believe, IIRC. We're pretty genetically distinct from Eastern Europeans.

388 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:28:10pm

re: #379 keloyd

You win the internet!

I'm pretty sure Klingon Divorce Court involves Batleth's, anger, violence... oh wait, that's foreplay.

389 ryannon  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:28:25pm

re: #352 keloyd

if the question is defining what is a human, tests of consciousness or self awareness are problematic. Lots of animals are more self aware and able to pass tests of consciousness or awareness than very early newborns, whom we agree ought to pass that test. They just make a racket and eat and poop. It's just the basic lizard parts of the brain doing most of the work those first few weeks, yet we want babies (and me when I'm asleep) to pass the "is it human" test and Irish setters to score "not human."

Only a handful of animals are able to pass the self-awareness test as defined by recognizing that their image in a mirror is just that - their own image, and not a separate animal. Surprisingly enough, pigeons are in this elite category.

(start pigeon jokes in 5, 4, 3, 2...)

390 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:28:29pm

re: #375 McSpiff

I appreciate it. Anti-Israeli types tend to be exceptionally good at twisting language to mean whatever they want it to, so I always try to be careful that my message of support doesn't get twisted into something I don't mean. I was accused of being pro-Hamas by the stalker blog early on and it was a slightly jarring experience.

Oh, the stalker blog is always sayin' someone they don't like is pro-Hamas!

391 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:28:57pm

Honestly, what strikes me about Paul is that he's honestly a hypocrite. He talks about how bad the government and shit is yet he has no problem getting pork for his district. He talks about being for liberty yet supports a nutcase like Chuck Baldwin for president. Not saying that Bob Barr was this great defender of liberty but at least he talked about it rather than being a reactionary like Chuck Baldwin. There are honestly some aspects of libertarianism that do appeal to me i.e. legalizing pot, gay marriage, and other things but their foreign policy and economic policy strikes me as simply reactionary. Plus, the Paulians are the most annoying people I've ever come across in politics. I've never dealt with a more self righteous bunch.

392 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:29:28pm

re: #359 Aceofwhat?

well, getting the species right helps/

but brain wave activity helps. Terry Schiavo, God rest her soul, was no longer human IMHO. a baby is an immature human.

and animals are self-aware? did i miss an astounding new headline?

According to NGC, Dolphins, elephants, the great apes (but not dogs or baboons) see their reflection in the mirror and realize "That is me". They will explore themselves, giving extra attention to parts they can't normally see, use it as a grooming aid, etc. The people inside my tv said that meant they were self-aware. Dogs perceive another dog to be ignored or barked at, iirc. Ours did like that.

393 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:29:33pm

re: #384 Sigma_x

I don't think we can afford them.

Maybe Arthur Anderson.

The firm who was acquitted too late to be saved?

394 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:29:54pm

re: #376 Aceofwhat?

Oh, brother. That test is ridiculous.

Based on your own peer-reviewed research, I presume.

395 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:30:45pm

Ron Paul!!
[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

Me thinks many here trust the gubment to much. Others, not at all.

396 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:30:48pm

re: #393 Aceofwhat?

The firm who was acquitted too late to be saved?

You mean like Acorn?

397 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:31:00pm

re: #389 ryannon

Only a handful of animals are able to pass the self-awareness test as defined by recognizing that their image in a mirror is just that - their own image, and not a separate animal. Surprisingly enough, pigeons are in this elite category.

(start pigeon jokes in 5, 4, 3, 2...)

I read a really interesting article some months ago about how humans and domestic dogs are the only two species that can understand pointing as meaning 'look, over there'. Chimps can't. Wolves can't. This is apparently a special ability shared (perhaps developed together) only by our two species (and by some foxes in Russia that were specially bred to do it as part of an experiment.)

398 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:32:39pm

re: #394 negativ

Based on your own peer-reviewed research, I presume.

How droll...

Perhaps i am simply using the wrong term. Some animals are capable of understanding that they are seeing themselves in the mirror. That capacity is unrelated to the sort of higher consciousness required for self-reflection (pun intended).

399 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:32:40pm

You know what's hilarious? I don't think they are using TelePrompTers at this SRLC event. Every speaker is reading (badly) from their note cards.

Idiotic fail.

400 Linden Arden  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:33:06pm

The Gold Standard types rival Creationists and Astrologers for quaint irrelevant ideology.

For all I know RP fans hit the trifecta.

401 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:33:23pm

re: #399 Stanley Sea

You know what's hilarious? I don't think they are using TelePrompTers at this SRLC event. Every speaker is reading (badly) from their note cards.

Idiotic fail.

Reading from a cue card: "We don't need no stinking teleprompters!"

402 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:33:38pm

re: #399 Stanley Sea

You know what's hilarious? I don't think they are using TelePrompTers at this SRLC event. Every speaker is reading (badly) from their note cards.

Idiotic fail.

Why are they using note cards when they have two perfectly good palms?

403 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:33:39pm

re: #396 Olsonist

You mean like Acorn?

Updinged. Well played. (although they deserved to get their dumb asses kicked out of Ohio, not all branches are the same and O'Keefe is a clod)

404 researchok  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:33:45pm

What Carter, et al, fails to understand:

Der Spiegel:

The pacifist reaction that the Israeli defensive war has triggered in Germany and Europe is not well thought out and is disingenuous. It is also counter-productive. An immediate cease-fire would merely result in a worse conflict in the future. The consequences drawn from Adolf Hitler’s World War II — “Never again fascism! Never again war!” — were intended to prevent an anti-Semitic war from ever again taking place. Today, that lesson has been forgotten. “Never again war against fascism” is all that remains.

Israel must not be forced to abandon its war against Hezbollah, rather it must win the conflict. Just as Hezbollah is fighting the war as Iran’s proxy, Israel is fighting genocidal Islamism as the proxy for the rest of the Western world. The least Israel should be able to expect from the West is that it not be betrayed.

405 Vambo  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:33:48pm

re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. When Bush was the President it was "patriotic" to critique the President.

by who? The left? Of course it was, and for the right, it was considered Treason. Hey, we're all familiar with the same stupid cycle of Dem and Repub presidents - I guess some people like to pretend that the way things are now is the way they've always been.

406 Linden Arden  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:34:17pm

re: #397 SanFranciscoZionist

I would love to read that article.

407 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:34:31pm

re: #399 Stanley Sea

You know what's hilarious? I don't think they are using TelePrompTers at this SRLC event. Every speaker is reading (badly) from their note cards.

Idiotic fail.

Well, at least they're not hypocrites.

408 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:35:27pm

re: #406 Linden Arden

I would love to read that article.

I think it was in Newsweek, you might search on their site. Very interesting, one of those things you would just never think of, normally.

409 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:36:36pm

re: #405 Vambo

I don't think I ever said "Treason." And your link is over a 60 year period.

410 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:36:44pm

re: #311 Aceofwhat?

And we're kicking ass on the Carter deniers. No whining. Facts are facts.

Hey, SFZ!

Am I a Carter denier? I've never heard the term before!

411 ryannon  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:37:23pm

re: #397 SanFranciscoZionist

I read a really interesting article some months ago about how humans and domestic dogs are the only two species that can understand pointing as meaning 'look, over there'. Chimps can't. Wolves can't. This is apparently a special ability shared (perhaps developed together) only by our two species (and by some foxes in Russia that were specially bred to do it as part of an experiment.)

The long and short of the mirror test.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Note that in this article, pigeons are thought not to pass it. Other laboratory tests have given conflicting evidence....

[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]

412 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:37:34pm

re: #410 windupbird

Hey, SFZ!

Am I a Carter denier? I've never heard the term before!

"Carter Denier." Are they people who think he never existed? I is confused...

413 McSpiff  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:38:06pm

OT: Having just watched Steve Jobs keynote on the new major update to the iPhone's software... I gotta say, do want! Glad I went for the 3GS model, I get all the goodies...

414 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:38:59pm

re: #410 windupbird

Hey, SFZ!

Am I a Carter denier? I've never heard the term before!

Hey!

I've never heard of Carter deniers either, but I really do suggest you read up on his recent pronouncements on Israel. The book, especially.

415 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:39:11pm

re: #410 windupbird

Hey, SFZ!

Am I a Carter denier? I've never heard the term before!

I just made it up. Do you like it;)

416 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:39:23pm

re: #407 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, at least they're not hypocrites.

To their detriment. It really makes me laugh.

417 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:39:59pm

re: #415 Aceofwhat?

I just made it up. Do you like it;)

I agree with Jason. 'Carter deniers' sound as though they don't believe Carter exists, or was president.

418 McSpiff  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:40:36pm

Maybe its just me, but the whole "Teleprompters are evil!" business just screams luddite or something... "they're gonna steal our souls through the magic box!"

419 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:40:40pm

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

Re Ashkenazi DNA - there's an old Scientific American in a closet somewhere, that touched on this. Mostly it dealt with Mitochondrial DNA and humanity's spread from Africa, but one little side box mentioned European Jews as a special case. I never would have guessed lactose intolerance was ~5% for Northern-Europeans, but like 70% for the European Jewish population. It's very indirect evidence indeed, but the authors and I would have guessed at more inter-marriage (or other ways to intermingle DNA) than that genetic quirk would allow.

420 Vambo  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:40:42pm

re: #409 Cannadian Club Akbar

I don't think I ever said "Treason." And your link is over a 60 year period.

Treason: from the Cold War to the War on Terror.

421 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:40:54pm

re: #417 SanFranciscoZionist

I agree with Jason. 'Carter deniers' sound as though they don't believe Carter exists, or was president.

But, but, 20% loans for houses!!
/

422 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:40:59pm

re: #417 SanFranciscoZionist

I agree with Jason. 'Carter deniers' sound as though they don't believe Carter exists, or was president.

I know a lot of people wish he wasn't...

423 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:41:25pm

re: #417 SanFranciscoZionist

I agree with Jason. 'Carter deniers' sound as though they don't believe Carter exists, or was president.

fortunately, my tongue is stuck firmly in my cheek/

424 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:41:45pm

re: #420 Vambo

Treason: from the Cold War to the War on Terror.

When did I say that? I mentioned the Logan Act.

425 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:41:49pm

re: #400 Linden Arden

The Gold Standard types rival Creationists and Astrologers for quaint irrelevant ideology.

For all I know RP fans hit the trifecta.

We used to have a lot of gold bugs here but they really thinned out at the time of the LGF creation wars. I don't think this was coincidence.

The gold standard, the Federal Reserve, and dark allegations of monetary manipulation play a central role in the web of vintage conspiracy theories that underpin the John Birch Society and much of the conspiracy culture in general.

426 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:42:41pm

re: #414 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey!

I've never heard of Carter deniers either, but I really do suggest you read up on his recent pronouncements on Israel. The book, especially.

The Apartheid book? I'll check it out.

I was of the opinion that Carter was a clueless tool with a lot of white guilt who got a bunch of bad info that put policies in place that encouraged anti-semitism, but I stopped short of calling Carter an anti-semite on the level of Henry Ford or Howard Hughes.

Happy to be proven wrong though! If anyone gets the idea that I'm a big fan of JIMMY CARTER? oh boy is that not the case.

427 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:43:25pm

re: #425 Shiplord Kirel

We used to have a lot of gold bugs here but they really thinned out at the time of the LGF creation wars. I don't think this was coincidence.

I know what you're referring to, but i like the way you put it. Makes it sound like something out of a fantasy novel...

428 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:43:47pm

re: #417 SanFranciscoZionist

I agree with Jason. 'Carter deniers' sound as though they don't believe Carter exists, or was president.

hahahahahaha There's just a big blank spot with a question mark, sort of like when the Sex Pistols were top of the Pops, and the BBC just left a blank spot there because they were so furious at them.

429 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:45:58pm

re: #426 WindUpBird

My suspicion is that he's just mercenary, and possibly bought and paid for by anti-Israel interests. See the Dershowitz link above, and the interesting financial connections there.

430 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:46:39pm

re: #424 Cannadian Club Akbar

When did I say that? I mentioned the Logan Act.

I won't wait for a response.

431 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:47:10pm

re: #426 WindUpBird

The Apartheid book? I'll check it out.

I was of the opinion that Carter was a clueless tool with a lot of white guilt who got a bunch of bad info that put policies in place that encouraged anti-semitism, but I stopped short of calling Carter an anti-semite on the level of Henry Ford or Howard Hughes.

Happy to be proven wrong though! If anyone gets the idea that I'm a big fan of JIMMY CARTER? oh boy is that not the case.

I'm not completely on board with all the Carter hate, but I will admit that I wish the man would Just. Stop. Talking. Build some houses and stfu.

432 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:47:39pm

Carter is just hard to make sense of. Part of me wants to think he's just a naive old guy but as one article pointed out he did support some pretty scummy regimes while president too.

433 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:48:17pm

re: #431 JasonA

I'm not completely on board with all the Carter hate, but I will admit that I wish the man would Just. Stop. Talking. Build some houses and stfu.

I can agree with that!

434 ryannon  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:48:25pm

re: #428 WindUpBird

hahahahahaha There's just a big blank spot with a question mark, sort of like when the Sex Pistols were top of the Pops, and the BBC just left a blank spot there because they were so furious at them.

For having mouthed off a bit obscenely during a live BBC-tv interview.

435 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:48:37pm

re: #430 Cannadian Club Akbar

The United States of America is over 200 years old and the Logan Act is also over 200 years old. Who has ever been prosecuted for violating it?

436 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:48:53pm

re: #434 ryannon

hahaha yes! :D

437 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:49:34pm

And now for a diary I never would've imagined seeing on DailyKos...

Confederate Men of Honor

438 Linden Arden  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:50:01pm

re: #425 Shiplord Kirel


The gold standard, the Federal Reserve, and dark allegations of monetary manipulation play a central role in the web of vintage conspiracy theories that underpin the John Birch Society and much of the conspiracy culture in general.

Ironically, the Fed was created to manipulate money and to stop bank panics and preserve order.

But not for private gain (CT bullshit like the Rothchilds or NWO). That is where the Birchers and like lose it completely.

Like any meaty CT there is a germ of truth and a full disease of lies.

439 pingjockey  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:50:43pm

re: #434 ryannon

Heh. CBS needs to learn not to have a hot mic around Tiger for the same thing! He dropped the F bomb and a Goddamnit! a couple of holes ago. Either, no 7 sec delay or the 7 sec delay person was asleep!

440 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:50:56pm

re: #425 Shiplord Kirel

We used to have a lot of gold bugs here but they really thinned out at the time of the LGF creation wars. I don't think this was coincidence.

The gold standard, the Federal Reserve, and dark allegations of monetary manipulation play a central role in the web of vintage conspiracy theories that underpin the John Birch Society and much of the conspiracy culture in general.

Aged...like a fine cheddar!

441 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:51:14pm

Cater is a Dbag..
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Logan act.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

442 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:51:15pm

I'm lucky enough to have a copy of the John Birch Society's 1960s conspiracy primer, The Hidden Hand. This essentially alleges a continuous conspiracy that dates all the way back to the 17th century. This means that the conspiracy is alleged to predate the United States and even the Enlightenment itself. According to the theory, the Enlightenment itself is a product of the conspiracy. The ultimate objective is to destroy Christianity and traditional social structures for the benefit of a hereditary class of mostly Jewish bankers and merchants.

The JBS downplays these beliefs today but they are still current among the established membership. This of course appeals to the typical conspiracist fantasy of being part of a select group sharing some hidden, almost occult, knowledge that the larger society lacks. Ironically, this is what conspiracists typically accuse their targets of being.

443 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:51:49pm

re: #437 JasonA

And now for a diary I never would've imagined seeing on DailyKos...

Confederate Men of Honor

Well it's a praising of James Longstreet who was despised by the Lost Causers in his lifetime for committing the sins of becoming a Catholic, Republican, and criticizing St. Robert Lee.

444 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:52:17pm

re: #442 Shiplord Kirel

I'm lucky enough to have a copy of the John Birch Society's 1960s conspiracy primer, The Hidden Hand. This essentially alleges a continuous conspiracy that dates all the way back to the 17th century. This means that the conspiracy is alleged to predate the United States and even the Enlightenment itself. According to the theory, the Enlightenment itself is a product of the conspiracy. The ultimate objective is to destroy Christianity and traditional social structures for the benefit of a hereditary class of mostly Jewish bankers and merchants.

The JBS downplays these beliefs today but they are still current among the established membership. This of course appeals to the typical conspiracist fantasy of being part of a select group sharing some hidden, almost occult, knowledge that the larger society lacks. Ironically, this is what conspiracists typically accuse their targets of being.

Is Hidden Hand available online? Be interesting to see how their schtick evolves to 2010.

445 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:52:59pm

re: #399 Stanley Sea

You know what's hilarious? I don't think they are using TelePrompTers at this SRLC event. Every speaker is reading (badly) from their note cards.

Idiotic fail.

Or from their hands?

446 AK-47%  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:53:24pm

re: #437 JasonA

It is hard to hold an objective and differentiated view of something so close to our identity, but yes, not everybody who fought for the south was a slaveholding racist bastard and not everyone who fought for the union was a noble abolitionist.

447 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:53:53pm

re: #419 keloyd

Re Ashkenazi DNA - there's an old Scientific American in a closet somewhere, that touched on this. Mostly it dealt with Mitochondrial DNA and humanity's spread from Africa, but one little side box mentioned European Jews as a special case. I never would have guessed lactose intolerance was ~5% for Northern-Europeans, but like 70% for the European Jewish population. It's very indirect evidence indeed, but the authors and I would have guessed at more inter-marriage (or other ways to intermingle DNA) than that genetic quirk would allow.

There was almost no intermarriage for most of the time that the Jews lived in Europe, and when it began to take place, the Jewish partner generally left the community and moved into the Gentile world rather than the other way around.

There was a case some years ago where a Palestinian American woman needed a marrow donor, and no one in the family was a match. They brought the search to the Jewish community, because an Ashkenazi is still more likely to be a match for an Arab than any other 'Caucasians' living around us will be.

448 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:54:11pm

re: #445 reine.de.tout

Or from their hands?

As Mme. Palin says, a poor man's teleprompter.

449 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:54:36pm

re: #446 ralphieboy

It is hard to hold an objective and differentiated view of something so close to our identity, but yes, not everybody who fought for the south was a slaveholding racist bastard and not everyone who fought for the union was a noble abolitionist.

You'll get no argument from me.

450 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:54:40pm

re: #444 WindUpBird

Is Hidden Hand available online? Be interesting to see how their schtick evolves to 2010.

I couldn't find it in a recent Google search. There are a number of books by that title, and the expression itself is very common, so it is a needle in a haystack. I might try again though.

451 AK-47%  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:54:46pm

re: #448 Stanley Sea

As Mme. Palin says, a poor man's teleprompter.


Manuprompter?

452 pingjockey  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:55:14pm

re: #445 reine.de.tout

My better half is always writing on her hand. Why? She loses notes!

453 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:55:20pm

re: #450 Shiplord Kirel

I couldn't find it in a recent Google search. There are a number of books by that title, and the expression itself is very common, so it is a needle in a haystack. I might try again though.

I was gonna say, you could scan it in 8-)

454 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:56:10pm

re: #435 Olsonist

The United States of America is over 200 years old and the Logan Act is also over 200 years old. Who has ever been prosecuted for violating it?

Not sure. Nancy is still a Dbag.

455 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:57:48pm

In other news, I just kicked the "fakecog" trojan's ass this morning. So if anyone has weird fake virus checker malware taking over their Windows system, talk to me, I know exactly how to kill the little bastards now.

456 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:58:03pm

re: #447 SanFranciscoZionist

That's remarkable given humanity's record of "mama's baby, daddy's maybe" in every other time and place.

457 [deleted]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:58:13pm
458 mr.JA  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:59:15pm

re: #32 jamesfirecat

Two languages in one head? Good lord man no one can live at that speed!

But the Dutch speak four languages and smoke marijuana!

Yes well... they're cheating!

How much I like this praise for us Dutch, it is not true. Most Dutch people speak English relatively well, and get around ok-ish in Germany- Dutch and German are very related languages and you can easily 'germanize' a Dutch word and get away with it. Still, German grammar is an absolute nightmare, I managed to speak grammatically correct English after staying a year in the UK, but after living nearly four years in Germany have I still not come to proper terms with the cases here...

Most Dutch people will only speak 2.5 languages and certainly not 4, although most people will have had at least 2 years of all the languages in school.
Don't confuse Amsterdam with the rest of the country- I guess to get about any tourist-related job in Amsterdam you indeed have to master at least 4 languages, but this is very much an exception.

459 webevintage  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:59:22pm

re: #330 Sigma_x

He just said, "We can do better with peace than with war."

And the crowd booed.

They booed.

Wow.
I guess war is awesome to these folks...as long as someone else is actually doing the fighting.

AMERICA! Fuck Yeah!

460 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:59:45pm

re: #454 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not sure. Nancy is still a Dbag.

[Link: www.factcheck.org...]

I will replace my Dbag reference with a Dbag reference.:)

461 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 1:59:55pm

re: #446 ralphieboy

It is hard to hold an objective and differentiated view of something so close to our identity, but yes, not everybody who fought for the south was a slaveholding racist bastard and not everyone who fought for the union was a noble abolitionist.

sure, but some things are best relegated to the trash heap of history. nothing from the Confederacy is precious enough to hold dear, and thus dilute the evil it represented.

462 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:00:05pm

re: #455 WindUpBird

In other news, I just kicked the "fakecog" trojan's ass this morning. So if anyone has weird fake virus checker malware taking over their Windows system, talk to me, I know exactly how to kill the little bastards now.

I've had to kill that bugger on two computers this year. Really wish that treaty wouldn't keep us from nukin' those sons o' b#$@#es!

463 ryannon  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:00:05pm

re: #444 WindUpBird

Is Hidden Hand available online? Be interesting to see how their schtick evolves to 2010.

I got me some Withered Hand, though.

Good stuff, listen to the whole thing - you'll like it.

464 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:00:30pm

re: #450 Shiplord Kirel

Here's a real long list of conspiracy books in the US

[Link: sites.google.com...]

The book you are looking for is fully titled "The Secret World Government Or The Hidden Hand" I think. Google search for the same:

[Link: www.google.com...]

465 Ojoe  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:00:50pm

From the Modern Whig Party website:

EDUCATION AND SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT - Increase public and private emphasis on math and science to promote American innovation to compete in the global economy.

466 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:00:56pm

Apparently the room is only half full for Steele.

[Link: twitter.com...]

467 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:01:20pm

re: #456 keloyd

That's remarkable given humanity's record of "mama's baby, daddy's maybe" in every other time and place.

I don't know. Think about how genetically distinct African Americans still are from the white U.S. population, even with a great deal of mixing over the past three hundred odd years. Rate of lactose intolerance, specific genetic markers, specific health risks...

468 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:01:40pm

Every time I see Michael Steele speak from now on, I'm going to be seeing the Grover puppet from the Daily Show.

469 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:02:34pm

re: #466 Sigma_x

Apparently the room is only half full for Steele.

[Link: twitter.com...]

From that feed:

Ron Paul's fans have cut the average age here in half.

Are his supporters that young, overall?

470 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:03:12pm

re: #469 JasonA

Are his supporters that young, overall?

Much to learn, they still have...

471 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:03:52pm

Man, watching Steele is painful.

472 [deleted]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:04:06pm
473 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:04:44pm

re: #471 Charles

Man, watching Steele is painful.

Press the "OFF" button.:)

474 webevintage  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:05:03pm

Major day yesterday in the life of my son.
He registered to vote.
He signed up for selective service.
He wrote a check for $10 to the Department of the Treasury.

475 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:05:07pm

This is just getting stupid. The jedi-mind trick the GOP is trying to pull on the country.

"These are not the droids you're looking for - move along."

"You are NOT better off than you were 2 years ago - impeach the president."

476 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:05:50pm

re: #475 Sigma_x

someone called for his impeachment???

477 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:06:51pm

re: #476 Aceofwhat?

someone called for his impeachment???

Might as well have. (e.g. the birthers.)

And, believe me, if they retake congress, they will.

478 AK-47%  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:07:26pm

re: #461 Aceofwhat?


That was kinda my point, there were some honorable individuals on the Southern side, but almost everything the Confederacy stood for is a mockery of the America we live in today

479 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:09:11pm

re: #478 ralphieboy

That was kinda my point, there were some honorable individuals on the Southern side, but almost everything the Confederacy stood for is a mockery of the America we live in today

Oh, i misunderstood you. Please forgive me-

480 pingjockey  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:09:28pm

re: #477 Sigma_x
That would just be idiotic. I may disagree with Pres. Obama, but he hasn't done anything to be impeached for!

481 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:11:20pm

re: #477 Sigma_x

Might as well have. (e.g. the birthers.)

And, believe me, if they retake congress, they will.

I'll bet you that if they retake congress, there will be fewer republicans voting for Obama's impeachment than there were democrats voting for Bush's impeachment.

482 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:12:01pm

re: #481 Aceofwhat?

I'll bet you that if they retake congress, there will be fewer republicans voting for Obama's impeachment than there were democrats voting for Bush's impeachment.

When did any democrats ever have an opportunity to vote for Bush's impeachment?

483 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:12:05pm

re: #480 pingjockey

That would just be idiotic. I may disagree with Pres. Obama, but he hasn't done anything to be impeached for!

This is true. But the wanted Bush to go to jail for no reason on the far left.

484 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:12:15pm

re: #462 JasonA

I've had to kill that bugger on two computers this year. Really wish that treaty wouldn't keep us from nukin' those sons o' b#$@#es!

I'm just keeping malwarebytes and combofix on my machine in case it comes back :P

485 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:14:10pm

re: #482 Sigma_x

When did any democrats ever have an opportunity to vote for Bush's impeachment?

Conyers drafted a resolution to consider Bush's impeachment. 38 signed it, IIRC.

486 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:15:34pm

re: #485 Aceofwhat?

Conyers drafted a resolution to consider Bush's impeachment. 38 signed it, IIRC.

[Link: www.democrats.com...]

487 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:15:48pm

re: #482 Sigma_x

Yes. They voted 251 to 166 to refer Kucinich's and Wexler's article of impeachment to the Judiciary Committee.

488 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:16:45pm

re: #487 Olsonist

Yes. They voted 251 to 166 to refer Kucinich's and Wexler's article of impeachment to the Judiciary Committee.

Ha - i was thinking of Conyers - i forgot about that one.

489 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:16:54pm

re: #484 WindUpBird

I'm just keeping malwarebytes and combofix on my machine in case it comes back :P

MWB is the bestest.

490 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:17:06pm

Stinky's been busy - some of you have great google fu and not much sense. That deleted site link belongs to the "White Aryan Resistance" and I would wager from the deletes that Charles doesn't want folks direct linking there.

Some advice from a long time lizard who frequents the sewers of teh innernets to keep track of the bad guys:

If you just have to link a hate site to demonstrate something or point out new hate campaigns, then always use the Google cache link and precede it with a clear warning that it's a hate site.

491 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:18:15pm

re: #490 Thanos

excellent point

492 pingjockey  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:18:43pm

re: #490 Thanos
Crap. I thought that those WAR assholes had been totally put out of business. IIRC, wasn't that Tom Metzgers bunch of morons?

493 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:18:46pm

re: #490 Thanos

Stinky's been busy - some of you have great google fu and not much sense. That deleted site link belongs to the "White Aryan Resistance" and I would wager from the deletes that Charles doesn't want folks direct linking there.

Some advice from a long time lizard who frequents the sewers of teh innernets to keep track of the bad guys:

If you just have to link a hate site to demonstrate something or point out new hate campaigns, then always use the Google cache link and precede it with a clear warning that it's a hate site.

But I was only to GOP.com!

Oh...

/

494 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:18:49pm

re: #483 Cannadian Club Akbar

This is true. But the wanted Bush to go to jail for no reason on the far left.

Voting for it to go before the judiciary committee is not the same as voting for his impeachment.

What's ironic is that Pelosi wouldn't vote for it...

Pelosi announced that she "would not support a resolution calling for Bush's impeachment," saying such a move was unlikely to succeed and would be divisive.

But, clearly, she's still hell bent on destroying America.

495 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:19:32pm

Nobody ever had the chance to vote for Bush's impeachment. Period.

496 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:19:32pm

re: #467 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know. Think about how genetically distinct African Americans still are from the white U.S. population, even with a great deal of mixing over the past three hundred odd years. Rate of lactose intolerance, specific genetic markers, specific health risks...

That's mostly where I and the American scientists got their assumptions I'm guessing. We underestimated how much genetic mixing has been added (or forced) in the case of black Americans, then overestimated the result for the Jewish case. ~30% are partly European, maybe more if one counts people who self-identify as white with bits of African DNA. To put it delicately, the scientists (and I) may have guessed what with the pogroms et al. in the past, Ashkenazi DNA from the male half would have been much more. Maybe it shows how strong anti-Semitism was if the Cossaks or the bubonic plague era Germans or the Edward I era English would rob, murder, and drive people out, but were scrupulous about sexual contact. That's kind of a scary degree of hate. Gotta love the anomalous science. Lunch Time!

497 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:21:06pm

Heck, I remember Pelosi getting shit from the far left for not supporting impeaching Bush. I believe that was Sheehan's basis for challenging her in the first place. It truly is sad though that people see impeachment as a matter of doing away with presidents they don't like politically. The founders obviously intended for impeachment to be rare as hell. I didn't like Bush I admit but I wouldn't have supported impeachment.

498 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:21:09pm

re: #495 Sigma_x

Nobody ever had the chance to vote for Bush's impeachment. Period.

sending it to the JC is batty enough. i am willing to bet for the record that a similar number of republicans will not do the same thing, since you mused that they would.

want to make it interesting?

499 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:21:27pm

re: #497 HappyWarrior

Heck, I remember Pelosi getting shit from the far left for not supporting impeaching Bush. I believe that was Sheehan's basis for challenging her in the first place. It truly is sad though that people see impeachment as a matter of doing away with presidents they don't like politically. The founders obviously intended for impeachment to be rare as hell. I didn't like Bush I admit but I wouldn't have supported impeachment.

well said

500 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:22:00pm

re: #490 Thanos

Thanks for the heads up. Point taken.

501 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:22:21pm

Yes. Please do not post links to hate sites, even just to download a PDF.

Resist.com is an especially bad one.

502 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:23:19pm

re: #497 HappyWarrior

Ummm, there was another rather unnecessary Presidential impeachment trial.

503 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:23:44pm

re: #501 Charles

Point taken. Wasn't thinking just typing.

504 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:24:03pm

re: #500 Olsonist

NP friend, it's good that you found that, I bet that you can find the ancestor statements for most of Glen Beck's rants there...

505 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:24:13pm

re: #497 HappyWarrior

I didn't like Bush I admit but I wouldn't have supported impeachment.

Ditto. Impeachment is for extreme, weird situations. You cannot impeach the President because you don't like him, he made bad decisions, or he's just irritating as hell.

For that we have The Next Election.

506 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:24:46pm

re: #503 Olsonist

Point taken. Wasn't thinking just typing.

and in defense of my statement, too...sorry your altruism accidentally landed you on a bad site;)

507 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:25:11pm

re: #502 Olsonist

Ummm, there was another rather unnecessary Presidential impeachment trial.

Yep, that was stupid as well. Yeah Clinton lied but impeaching someone over lying over an affair was crap and the Republicans know it.

508 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:25:39pm

re: #494 Sigma_x

Voting for it to go before the judiciary committee is not the same as voting for his impeachment.

What's ironic is that Pelosi wouldn't vote for it...

Pelosi announced that she "would not support a resolution calling for Bush's impeachment," saying such a move was unlikely to succeed and would be divisive.

But, clearly, she's still hell bent on destroying America.

And Republicans did the same. In that they didn't vote for Clinton to step down.

509 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:26:03pm

I wouldn't have supported the impeachment of Bush, either. Just because of the damage it would've caused the country. But, when you look at the list of what Kucinich and Wexler considered to be impeachable offenses that Bush committed while in office, all on one easy-to-read list, it does make for a rather compelling case...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

This topic originated when someone referred to "the far left wanting to impeach Bush for nothing."

Nothing? I'm sorry, but I think a great many people in this country wouldn't consider what he did while in office "nothing."

510 pingjockey  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:27:49pm

re: #502 Olsonist
That was one of the dumbest uses of the peoples time and money I ever saw. Clinton screwed around, lied about it, got caught. It wasn't impeachable, IMO. Then again impeachment may have bee easier than having Hillary toss shit at his head!!

511 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:27:52pm

re: #509 Sigma_x

I wouldn't have supported the impeachment of Bush, either. Just because of the damage it would've caused the country. But, when you look at the list of what Kucinich and Wexler considered to be impeachable offenses that Bush committed while in office, all on one easy-to-read list, it does make for a rather compelling case...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

This topic originated when someone referred to "the far left wanting to impeach Bush for nothing."

Nothing? I'm sorry, but I think a great many people in this country wouldn't consider what he did while in office "nothing."

True enough. Honestly, my opposition would have been based on the terrible precedent it would set impeaching two presidents in a row and making the next president in this case, Obama fair game for a partisan witch hunt and we already have that as is with the birthers who believe he is trying to destroy our country and make it in to the Soviet Union 2.0 which is hilariously pathetic.

512 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:29:01pm

re: #509 Sigma_x

The Kucinich/Wexler impeachment resolution contained 35 articles covering the Iraq war, the Valerie Plame affair, creating a case for war with Iran, capture and treatment of prisoners of war, spying and or wiretapping inside the United States, use of signing statements, failing to Comply with Congressional Subpoenas, the 2004 elections, medicare, Hurricane Katrina, global warming, and 9/11.[1]

Impeach him!!

513 researchok  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:29:28pm

re: #471 Charles

Man, watching Steele is painful.

Kind of like the captain of the Titanic.

514 Boogberg  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:30:18pm

Holy crap! Anyone see that eagle by Mickelson? Sunk the ball from over 130 yards away. :D

515 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:30:58pm

re: #508 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not true. The Republicans voted overwhelmingly on party line in favor of impeachment in the House and largely in favor of conviction in the Senate.

516 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:31:39pm

re: #512 Cannadian Club Akbar

The Kucinich/Wexler impeachment resolution contained 35 articles covering the Iraq war, the Valerie Plame affair, creating a case for war with Iran, capture and treatment of prisoners of war, spying and or wiretapping inside the United States, use of signing statements, failing to Comply with Congressional Subpoenas, the 2004 elections, medicare, Hurricane Katrina, global warming, and 9/11.[1]

Impeach him!!

I'm assuming that's sarcasm? Sorry to rain on your parade, but I'm pretty sure they were referring to his handling of Katrina, his "Systematically Undermining Efforts to Address Global Climate Change" and, with 9/11, his failure to respond to prior intelligence warnings that an attack was imminent.

Not that he was personally responsible for these three things.

517 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:32:11pm

re: #507 HappyWarrior

Yep, that was stupid as well. Yeah Clinton lied but impeaching someone over lying over an affair was crap and the Republicans know it.

this republican agrees. the perjury was its own penalty...we should have been making good laws and daring him to veto them rather than wasting everyone's time with a trial.

i would have killed to have been the majority leader then...i'd have sat in the Oval Office and said:

"Here's the deal. We're gonna be grown up about this right now. But you are going to sign every fucking bill i put on your desk. You see a bill that says we're going to nuke France because we want to take over the vineyards? Sign it. You see a bill that says the President has to say "Justice Scalia is my homeboy" every time Kucinich talks? Sign it. I hand you a bill that says you have to bark like a dog every time Carter says "Israel". You're going to sign it, and with a smile...are we clear?"

518 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:32:34pm

re: #515 Olsonist

Not true. The Republicans voted overwhelmingly on party line in favor of impeachment in the House and largely in favor of conviction in the Senate.

When they had both the House and the Senate?

519 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:35:23pm

re: #518 Cannadian Club Akbar

With Trent Lott as majority leader and Newt Gingrich as House Speaker.

520 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:35:53pm

re: #509 Sigma_x

I wouldn't have supported the impeachment of Bush, either. Just because of the damage it would've caused the country. But, when you look at the list of what Kucinich and Wexler considered to be impeachable offenses that Bush committed while in office, all on one easy-to-read list, it does make for a rather compelling case...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

This topic originated when someone referred to "the far left wanting to impeach Bush for nothing."

Nothing? I'm sorry, but I think a great many people in this country wouldn't consider what he did while in office "nothing."

Seriously? Those are impeachable offenses? Valerie Plame?

You're being sarcastic, right?

521 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:36:50pm

re: #516 Sigma_x

I'm assuming that's sarcasm? Sorry to rain on your parade, but I'm pretty sure they were referring to his handling of Katrina, his "Systematically Undermining Efforts to Address Global Climate Change" and, with 9/11, his failure to respond to prior intelligence warnings that an attack was imminent.

Not that he was personally responsible for these three things.

Wow. BDS is still alive. Katrina was a hurricane. The Feds can't send in the National Guard until asked. Global warming has been going on for years. And if you want to play politics, Clinton didn't kill Bin Laden because he was getting a BJ from a fat chick and he would have been accused of 'Wagging the Dog."

522 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:38:21pm

re: #520 Aceofwhat?

No way impeachable offenses. Agree.

But...to bring up the Valerie Plame story again. It still burns me that the folks yelling loudest about patriotism and standing with the US or against it had the gall to do that, and had and still have support for it. Pitiful.

523 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:38:24pm

re: #516 Sigma_x

I'm assuming that's sarcasm? Sorry to rain on your parade, but I'm pretty sure they were referring to his handling of Katrina, his "Systematically Undermining Efforts to Address Global Climate Change" and, with 9/11, his failure to respond to prior intelligence warnings that an attack was imminent.

Not that he was personally responsible for these three things.

I didn't hear a lot of Democrats asking for the impeachment of the governor of Louisiana, despite that being a much more appropriate target.

524 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:40:13pm

re: #520 Aceofwhat?

Outing Valerie Plame would have been an impeachable offense. However, it is unlikely that Bush ever knew anything about that and in fact in the end he refused to pardon Libby, to Cheney's extreme displeasure, which I take to mean that he really didn't like the outing either.

525 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:40:44pm

re: #519 Olsonist

With Trent Lott as majority leader and Newt Gingrich as House Speaker.

Was Clinton impeached?re: #519 Olsonist

With Trent Lott as majority leader and Newt Gingrich as House Speaker.

Did he get convicted of a crime?(President Clinton)

526 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:41:16pm

re: #520 Aceofwhat?

Seriously? Those are impeachable offenses? Valerie Plame?

You're being sarcastic, right?

Nope. Not one bit. The Plame bit was a stretch, I'll admit. But the rest?

We all know about bribery and treason and other "high crimes and misdemeanors" being impeachable offenses.

Then you have this:

"... those offences which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself." --Alexander Hamilton, March 7, 1788 in "The Federalist Papers : No. 65."

Yep, I think Bush's conduct while in office met those standards, so far as they relate to Kucinich/Wexler's articles of impeachment.

527 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:42:09pm

re: #522 Stanley Sea

No way impeachable offenses. Agree.

But...to bring up the Valerie Plame story again. It still burns me that the folks yelling loudest about patriotism and standing with the US or against it had the gall to do that, and had and still have support for it. Pitiful.

To do what? Blow the cover of someone who was not undercover at the time?

Or refer one's husband to go to another country and lie?

528 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:42:20pm

re: #524 Olsonist

Outing Valerie Plame would have been an impeachable offense. However, it is unlikely that Bush ever knew anything about that and in fact in the end he refused to pardon Libby, to Cheney's extreme displeasure, which I take to mean that he really didn't like the outing either.

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

529 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:42:31pm

re: #524 Olsonist

Outing Valerie Plame would have been an impeachable offense. However, it is unlikely that Bush ever knew anything about that and in fact in the end he refused to pardon Libby, to Cheney's extreme displeasure, which I take to mean that he really didn't like the outing either.

You have to be undercover to be outed. she wasn't undercover.

530 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:42:49pm

re: #525 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes he was impeached by the Republicans in the House. Low bar.
No, he was not convicted in the Senate. Somewhat higher bar.

531 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:44:19pm

re: #530 Olsonist

Yes he was impeached by the Republicans in the House. Low bar.
No, he was not convicted in the Senate. Somewhat higher bar.

So, no?

532 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:44:27pm

If I recall the Clinton trial right. Most Republicans in the SEnate voted to convict but they failed since you need a 2/3's majority. Yet another reason why I argued with my side against impeaching and removing Bush since there was no way in hell the Republicans in the Senate would vote affirmatively. I just found it unpractical as hell.

533 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:44:35pm

Alright - forget about the Plame bit.

What about the rest of it?

534 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:45:00pm

re: #526 Sigma_x

Nope. Not one bit. The Plame bit was a stretch, I'll admit. But the rest?

We all know about bribery and treason and other "high crimes and misdemeanors" being impeachable offenses.

Then you have this:

"... those offences which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself." --Alexander Hamilton, March 7, 1788 in "The Federalist Papers : No. 65."

Yep, I think Bush's conduct while in office met those standards, so far as they relate to Kucinich/Wexler's articles of impeachment.

the rest is total crap. come on. you could impeach every single president with that crap. is that the country you want?

bush was going to overthrow Iran? really?
bush's signing statements? really?

don't confuse disagreement with impeachment. i didn't vote for Obama, but i don't for a second begrudge him the right to be my president.

535 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:45:00pm

re: #310 Sigma_x

Yes, all things considered, I DO still think Carter is a "great man." I am going to have to do a lot more research on the subject (a subject I, currently, know nothing about) before I disregard an opinion I've had of the man for well nigh 25 years.

I can disagree with someone on a particular issue and still think they're good people.

You admit to knowing nothing about a subject (in this case a "man"), but for 25 years you thought he was "great"?

Interesting way to run a brain.

536 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:45:28pm

re: #529 Aceofwhat?

Evidently even George Bush would disagree with that. Did disagree with that.

537 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:46:21pm

Honestly, I started liking Bush a little more when he refused to give in to Cheney and pardon Libby. I like Bush a lot more as a person and leader than I do Cheney.

538 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:47:03pm

re: #531 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, no?

"And Republicans did the same. In that they didn't vote for Clinton to step down."

So, yes. The Republicans did vote for Clinton to step down.

539 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:47:09pm

re: #536 Olsonist

Evidently even George Bush would disagree with that. Did disagree with that.

No, Libby lied under oath. Don't confuse the actual conviction with the sensationalism.

If he'd told the truth, he'd have walked away, IIRC.

540 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:48:41pm

re: #535 Cato the Elder

That's really selective of you to use only part of the post. I explained in pretty exact detail why I considered him a great man. But, of course, you're just taking part of what I wrote to advance whatever point it is that I'm trying to advance.

And the subject I was referring to not knowing anything about was his stance on Israel (a recent stance, I might add. As in: the last 10 years or so. The opinion I had formed of him was began forming in 1975 when I was 5 years old, sitting on my Mother's knee, with her explaining to me who the man on the cover of the newspaper was.)

So, way to take a cheap shot.

541 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:49:00pm

re: #340 Cannadian Club Akbar

We haven't gone to war with Congressional approval since WW2.

And you think that's a good thing?

But otherwise you support the Constitution, right?

[head spins]

542 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:49:29pm

re: #540 Sigma_x

Whatever point it is YOU'RE trying to advance. Not "I'm trying to advance."

Sorry.

543 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:49:47pm

re: #538 Olsonist

"And Republicans did the same. In that they didn't vote for Clinton to step down."

So, yes. The Republicans did vote for Clinton to step down.

For perjury? Heaven forbid. You or me would be in jail.

544 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:51:02pm

re: #541 Cato the Elder

And you think that's a good thing?

But otherwise you support the Constitution, right?

[head spins]

I never said that. Please don't put words in my mouth. Just pointing out facts.

545 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:51:28pm

re: #540 Sigma_x

That's really selective of you to use only part of the post. I explained in pretty exact detail why I considered him a great man. But, of course, you're just taking part of what I wrote to advance whatever point it is that I'm trying to advance.

And the subject I was referring to not knowing anything about was his stance on Israel (a recent stance, I might add. As in: the last 10 years or so. The opinion I had formed of him was began forming in 1975 when I was 5 years old, sitting on my Mother's knee, with her explaining to me who the man on the cover of the newspaper was.)

So, way to take a cheap shot.

this goes back farther than 10 years...

546 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:52:04pm

re: #539 Aceofwhat?

If the only thing that Libby did was lie under oath, then Bush would have been well within his rights to pardon him. However, there is what Fitzgerald could and did prove and there is what Bush knew. And Bush chose to not pardon Libby.

547 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:52:05pm

re: #350 Aceofwhat?

seeeriously. it would take a large-caliber revolver held to my head to downgrade from the Masters to Luap Nor...i like where your head's at...

I'd take a five-hour speech by Castro (without subtitles) over the Masters. Watching golf on teevee is about as interesting as contemplating toenails growing on a corpse.

548 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:53:04pm

re: #537 HappyWarrior

Honestly, I started liking Bush a little more when he refused to give in to Cheney and pardon Libby. I like Bush a lot more as a person and leader than I do Cheney.

And i like Obama as a person. We're all better off not maligning each other's motives in the course of policy disagreements. Good on you-

549 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:53:28pm

re: #545 Aceofwhat?

this goes back farther than 10 years...

Well, I stopped following Carter's career back in the mid-late 90's, when I moved out of Atlanta. But, up to then (and even now, still, to some degree) I had great respect for the man and his work.

550 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:54:54pm

re: #370 Sigma_x

Oh, hell no. Not at ALL. The man is clearly insane.

I do, however, agree with him that the FED should be audited.

What is the "FED"?

551 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:55:12pm

re: #550 Cato the Elder

What is the "FED"?

Federal Reserve.

552 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:56:05pm

re: #546 Olsonist

If the only thing that Libby did was lie under oath, then Bush would have been well within his rights to pardon him. However, there is what Fitzgerald could and did prove and there is what Bush knew. And Bush chose to not pardon Libby.

Bush made a calculated decision, a political decision IMHO.

I'd have pardoned Liddy, personally, after i let him serve a little time for lying. It is simply not a crime to reveal the identity of an employee who is not "undercover". I don't know why that was so hard for the national media back then.

I'm not excusing Libby's perjury...just saying that there was no meat to the scandal.

553 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:56:20pm

re: #550 Cato the Elder

What is the "FED"?

I trade stocks for a living, and that's what the Federal Reserve is referred to in that world; the FED.

554 pingjockey  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:56:24pm

re: #547 Cato the ElderYou can't fool us. In the quiet of the evening, you lock yourself in your den, with popcorn and turn on....Roller Derby! Mwahaha!

555 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:56:43pm

re: #549 Sigma_x

Well, I stopped following Carter's career back in the mid-late 90's, when I moved out of Atlanta. But, up to then (and even now, still, to some degree) I had great respect for the man and his work.

Mugabe

556 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:57:05pm

re: #553 Sigma_x

I trade stocks for a living, and that's what the Federal Reserve is referred to in that world; the FED.

Cool - what state do you work in? (if you don't mind my asking)

557 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:57:31pm

re: #376 Aceofwhat?

Oh, brother. That test is ridiculous.

Yeah, it is. My dog never looks in the mirror, but he can't shut up about it whenever he sees his name in print.

558 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:57:45pm

re: #554 pingjockey

You can't fool us. In the quiet of the evening, you lock yourself in your den, with popcorn and turn on...Roller Derby! Mwahaha!

I respect Cato a ton...if he watches roller derby, i'll respect him even more...

559 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:57:51pm

re: #556 Aceofwhat?

Cool - what state do you work in? (if you don't mind my asking)

Florida. Miami, Florida. Just moved here from LA. But I'm originally from downtown NYC.

560 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:58:37pm

The Yankees pitcher had a no no going for 7 & 2/3rds. Not no more.

561 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:59:08pm

re: #559 Sigma_x

Florida. Miami, Florida. Just moved here from LA. But I'm originally from downtown NYC.

Nice. I live in Jacksonville. I've only been here a year, but i like it. More importantly, so does my family.

562 pingjockey  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 2:59:34pm

re: #558 Aceofwhat?
It's a nice afternoon and I thought I'd interject a little levity. I do have the Masters on in the background.

563 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:00:13pm

re: #562 pingjockey

It's a nice afternoon and I thought I'd interject a little levity. I do have the Masters on in the background.

Phil's eagle was fantastic. He's a good dude.

564 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:00:19pm

re: #553 Sigma_x

I trade stocks for a living, and that's what the Federal Reserve is referred to in that world; the FED.

Except without the capital "E" and "D".

I think you're a phony.

565 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:00:34pm

re: #560 Cannadian Club Akbar

The Yankees pitcher had a no no going for 7 & 2/3rds. Not no more.

Good I hate the frigging Yankees.

566 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:00:59pm

People that don't live in Florida suck. Unless you are reading this.
/10

567 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:01:00pm

re: #561 Aceofwhat?

Yeah, I love Florida. I don't know why I didn't move here years ago. I just pretty much outright stole a beautiful 2 bedroom condo right on Biscayne bay. I wake up every day to the ocean and the sunrise and it's just so incredibly insanely beautiful it takes my breath away.

568 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:01:01pm

re: #565 HappyWarrior

Good I hate the frigging Yankees.

that sentiment has bipartisan support/

569 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:01:16pm

re: #551 Sigma_x

Federal Reserve.

Known to everyone but you, apparently, as "the Fed".

I've never met a broker who spelled it with all caps.

570 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:01:32pm

re: #552 Aceofwhat?

Valerie Plame served as a NOC. The affair also blew the cover of Brewster Jennings, etc. Basically, Libby et al were criminals.

571 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:01:56pm

re: #567 Sigma_x

Yeah, I love Florida. I don't know why I didn't move here years ago. I just pretty much outright stole a beautiful 2 bedroom condo right on Biscayne bay. I wake up every day to the ocean and the sunrise and it's just so incredibly insanely beautiful it takes my breath away.

do you miss the state income tax?

572 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:02:32pm

re: #540 Sigma_x

So, way to take a cheap shot.

You're welcome.

573 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:03:04pm

re: #571 Aceofwhat?

No, I absolutely do not. I pay an obscene amount of short term capital gains tax. But I'm listed as a day-trader, so I get to right-off virtually everything.

574 lifeobs  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:03:07pm

Sarah lying? Does she think she is a democrat or something!!!

575 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:03:19pm

Write-off.

576 Achilles Tang  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:04:18pm

re: #28 reine.de.tout

We've had 2 languages spoken in Louisiana for a couple of hundred years.
The.World.Does.Not.Fall.Apart.

I speak several. Cato speaks many more. That is not the point. A cohesive society needs a common form of communication.

There is no excuse for anyone except the elderly to not learn the dominant language of the country they intend to live in the rest of their life, and it is not just the individuals that are at fault if they don't, it is the rest of us who treat it like a religious right to not speak English and coddle them instead of forcing them to learn.

Anyone can learn to speak English if they are not helped not to.

(and, as to "press 1 for English", I never do. If they want my business they will pass me through anyway.)

577 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:06:30pm

re: #570 Olsonist

Valerie Plame served as a NOC. The affair also blew the cover of Brewster Jennings, etc. Basically, Libby et al were criminals.

She attended a conference with Democratic senators a month before the column appeared. The revealing of her identity was not a crime, and IIRC, Fitzpatrick never pursued it as such.

578 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:07:30pm

re: #573 Sigma_x

No, I absolutely do not. I pay an obscene amount of short term capital gains tax. But I'm listed as a day-trader, so I get to right-off virtually everything.

Welcome to a state that hasn't been beholden to decades of Democratic legislative control!

(you had to see that one coming/)

579 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:07:32pm

re: #576 Naso Tang

In Canada you'd better speak both dominant languages. In Switzerland, you'd be smart to speak all three and it wouldn't heard to speak all four.

580 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:07:53pm

re: #577 Aceofwhat?

She attended a conference with Democratic senators a month before the column appeared. The revealing of her identity was not a crime, and IIRC, Fitzpatrick never pursued it as such.

It wasn't.

581 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:08:55pm

re: #576 Naso Tang

There is no excuse for anyone except the elderly to not learn the dominant language of the country they intend to live in the rest of their life, and it is not just the individuals that are at fault if they don't, it is the rest of us who treat it like a religious right to not speak English and coddle them instead of forcing them to learn.

Now there's an all-American idea if I ever heard one. ESL Camps!

(and, as to "press 1 for English", I never do. If they want my business they will pass me through anyway.)

The joke's on you. There is no "press 1 for English" option that I've ever heard. It's a wingnut teabagger xenophobic fantasy.

582 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:09:22pm

re: #579 Olsonist

In Canada you'd better speak both dominant languages. In Switzerland, you'd be smart to speak all three and it wouldn't heard to speak all four.

Eh. Romansh isn't worth it if you don't already know it. A Swiss is better off learning English as their fourth, by far, IMHO.

583 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:09:36pm

re: #578 Aceofwhat?

Welcome to a state that hasn't been beholden to decades of Democratic legislative control!

(you had to see that one coming/)

Yeah, no troubles here.

584 Achilles Tang  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:10:38pm

re: #576 Naso Tang

Up yours Cato.

585 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:10:41pm

re: #583 Sigma_x

Yeah, no troubles here.

Yep, good on Christ for calling in the auditors.

Vote for Christ!

586 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:11:17pm

re: #581 Cato the Elder

What? You've never been asked to press one for English?

587 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:11:18pm

re: #577 Aceofwhat?

In what way does attending a conference with Democratic senators blow her cover as a junior consular officer and as an energy analyst for Brewster? Sounds kind of like the thing a junior consular officer and an energy analyst might want to do. In Washington. DC.

588 Achilles Tang  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:12:14pm

re: #581 Cato the Elder


The joke's on you. There is no "press 1 for English" option that I've ever heard. It's a wingnut teabagger xenophobic fantasy.

Bullshit. If I have nothing better to do sometime I'll post a list of phone numbers.

589 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:12:25pm

re: #585 Aceofwhat?

Crist won't win. And the AMEX shit has already been taken of.

590 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:13:39pm

re: #586 Aceofwhat?

What? You've never been asked to press one for English?

The option to "press 1 for English" does not exist. It's always "2" or some other number, for Spanish. The idea that you have to press anything for English is a right-wing myth.

591 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:14:26pm

re: #588 Naso Tang

Bullshit. If I have nothing better to do sometime I'll post a list of phone numbers.

Oh, go force someone to learn English, you twit.

592 Achilles Tang  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:20:05pm

Out dinner. Later

593 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:21:22pm

re: #587 Olsonist

In what way does attending a conference with Democratic senators blow her cover as a junior consular officer and as an energy analyst for Brewster? Sounds kind of like the thing a junior consular officer and an energy analyst might want to do. In Washington. DC.

there are different levels of cover. hers was not the sort which was illegal to disclose.

i don't mind your saying it was unseemly, especially because other agents were affected, but OTOH, Joe Wilson is one of the biggest douchebags this country has ever seen.

594 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:22:29pm

re: #590 Cato the Elder

The option to "press 1 for English" does not exist. It's always "2" or some other number, for Spanish. The idea that you have to press anything for English is a right-wing myth.

not true. it happens to me on occasion. but i do agree that to get riled up about it is to make a mountain out of a molehill...if you wait long enough, the system will keep going in English.

595 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:23:44pm

Hi Olsonist! You're a douchebag.

596 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:26:55pm

re: #595 Cato the Elder

What's gotten into you lately?

597 keloyd  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:27:59pm

Cato's phone has a dial. He can't press one.

598 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:28:39pm

re: #593 Aceofwhat?

A NOC means Non Official Cover. It means she was putting her life on the line.

Period.

599 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:29:32pm

re: #596 JasonA

What's gotten into you lately?

More than the recommended daily allowance of teh stoopid around here lately.

600 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:30:55pm

re: #598 Olsonist

A NOC means Non Official Cover. It means she was putting her life on the line.

Period.

It was not illegal to disclose her identity. Period.

And she was recalled from Russia after Ames was suspected of leaking her identity. Beyond the fact that it wasn't illegal, she was through putting her life on the line. Her cover was not illegally blown, and she had no business recommending her idiotic husband for the yellowcake mission.

601 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:31:12pm

re: #599 Cato the Elder

More than the recommended daily allowance of teh stoopid around here lately.

Have some fiber...detox...

602 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:33:45pm

re: #600 Aceofwhat?

First, it is quite illegal to disclose the identity of a NOC.

Second, on March 16, 2007, Valerie Plame addressed this question in sworn testimony to Congress: "I did not recommend him. I did not suggest him. There was no nepotism involved. I did not have the authority.... It's been borne out in the testimony during the Libby trial, and I can tell you that it just doesn't square with the facts".

603 Boogberg  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:36:44pm

re: #597 keloyd

Cato's phone has a dial. He can't press one.

Those phones are cool. I've been thinking of getting one just for the ringer sound. :D

604 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:37:42pm

re: #602 Olsonist

First, it is quite illegal to disclose the identity of a NOC.

Second, on March 16, 2007, Valerie Plame addressed this question in sworn testimony to Congress: "I did not recommend him. I did not suggest him. There was no nepotism involved. I did not have the authority... It's been borne out in the testimony during the Libby trial, and I can tell you that it just doesn't square with the facts".

The senate intelligence committee begged to differ.

605 Sigma_x  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:37:57pm

Who gives a shit about pressing 1 for english? Seriously?

We are a nation of immigrants; most speak english, but some speak spanish, some speak several different dialects of chinese, some speak farsi or arabic,...

Who gives a F_CK?!

What, they can cut our grass or bus our tables for $2.95 an hour but they can't have instructions provided to them in a language they can understand? It's amazing the things wing-nuts choose to bitch about.

606 dugmartsch  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:39:14pm

re: #336 NJDhockeyfan

Great! Ron Paul is a kook.

He is at least consistent in his cookery.

Whatever you think of the guy he's not jumping on a bandwagon or anything.

607 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:39:26pm

re: #603 Boogberg

Those phones are cool. I've been thinking of getting one just for the ringer sound. :D

I know some old people who still own them in a non-hip, non-postmodern, unironic sort of way.

608 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:42:13pm

re: #602 Olsonist

First, it is quite illegal to disclose the identity of a NOC.

She was neither covert at the time nor had been assigned to a foreign covert assignment in the past 5 years. She was assigned to Langley, technically, in 2003 when the story broke. Covert employees are not assigned to Langley, ever. It was not a crime to disclose her identity.

609 Boogberg  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:42:42pm

re: #607 Cato the Elder

I know some old people who still own them in a non-hip, non-postmodern, unironic sort of way.

Yep. The guy who owns the business across the street from where I work has one in his shop.

610 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:43:09pm

re: #581 Cato the Elder

There is no excuse for anyone except the elderly to not learn the dominant language of the country they intend to live in the rest of their life, and it is not just the individuals that are at fault if they don't, it is the rest of us who treat it like a religious right to not speak English and coddle them instead of forcing them to learn.

Now there's an all-American idea if I ever heard one. ESL Camps!

The joke's on you. There is no "press 1 for English" option that I've ever heard. It's a wingnut teabagger xenophobic fantasy.

I run a team that programs IVR's, and Cato is correct; the usual terminology is "Marque dos para espanol" which means "press 2 for Spanish" -- it's so prevalent that there's even a company based around that concept.
Marque Dos

In other words the default is English, if you want something other than english then you have to press a button.

611 dugmartsch  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:45:13pm

re: #590 Cato the Elder

The option to "press 1 for English" does not exist. It's always "2" or some other number, for Spanish. The idea that you have to press anything for English is a right-wing myth.

I've been prompted to press one for english. I never investigated what would happen if i just waited, but I imagine the prompts would continue in english or they'd ask again. How do you get mad about something like that though? I think some people have some kind of impotent rage fetish. That's how they get their jollies.

612 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:46:15pm

re: #604 Aceofwhat?

Majority staff. Democrats on the committee disagreed and wanted further information from the CIA.

Nor is this even an issue. It's just another red herring thread that Republicans like to throw out.

Fact is she was a NOC.
Fact is Libby et al outed a NOC.

613 CuriousLurker  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:46:35pm

re: #8 webevintage

And I want to stab my eyes out anytime she gets snotty about the President. She makes me feel stabby...

Same here—her venomous snark gets on my last nerve. She was on TV a week or so ago while I was on the phone in another room, unable to get to the remote. The sound of her voice made me want to stick the nearest ballpoint pen through my eardrums.

614 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:48:07pm

re: #603 Boogberg

Those phones are cool. I've been thinking of getting one just for the ringer sound. :D

I've got one of those in the basement AKA a "500 model" (from either Bell prior to the breakup, or Western Electric after) Mine is called the "halloween phone" because the case parts are mixed between an orange phone and black phone.

615 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:48:12pm

re: #612 Olsonist

Majority staff. Democrats on the committee disagreed and wanted further information from the CIA.

Nor is this even an issue. It's just another red herring thread that Republicans like to throw out.

Fact is she was a NOC.
Fact is Libby et al outed a NOC.

she was neither covert at the time nor had she been on a foreign assignment in the 5 years prior.

Fitzgerald, being an independent investigator, pursued the avenues he saw fit. I hate that he didn't chase this down, because it lets people keep believing this nonsense that it was illegal to disclose her identity.

616 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:48:30pm

re: #608 Aceofwhat?

Gee you're saying it's totally ok to disclose the identity of a NOC and thereby blowing her cover organizations et cetera. All this just for payback against a critic you don't like.

Nice.

617 Boogberg  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:49:00pm

I just called Comcast and you have to push 9 for Spanish.

618 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:49:39pm

re: #616 Olsonist

Gee you're saying it's totally ok to disclose the identity of a NOC and thereby blowing her cover organizations et cetera. All this just for payback against a critic you don't like.

Nice.

I didn't say it was ok. I'm saying it's not illegal. I think it was unfair to other agents...in fact, i said so.

I thought the question was whether it was illegal, not whether it was OK?

619 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:50:22pm

re: #615 Aceofwhat?

She was a NOC in 2003. Period.

620 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:50:24pm

re: #605 Sigma_x

Who gives a shit about pressing 1 for english? Seriously?

We are a nation of immigrants; most speak english, but some speak spanish, some speak several different dialects of chinese, some speak farsi or arabic,...

Who gives a F_CK?!

What, they can cut our grass or bus our tables for $2.95 an hour but they can't have instructions provided to them in a language they can understand? It's amazing the things wing-nuts choose to bitch about.

Agreed.

The point is that there is no "press 1 for English". The fucking default is always English. Unless you're calling Jorge's Pizza in the barrio, ese.

The teabaggers make a xenophobic point about how much it pisses them off to have people "jabbering away" (as my xenophobic grandmother used to call it) in any language that is not English by harping on about an inconvenient phone option that simply does not exist. I have never been asked to "press 1 for English" - it's always (in Spanish) "press 2 (or whatever) for Spanish".

This is the kind of twit that gets upset about something that doesn't exist.

621 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:50:49pm

Model 500, 554, 1500, 2500, 2554

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

622 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:52:11pm

re: #618 Aceofwhat?

She was a NOC in 2003 and it was illegal to disclose the identity of a NOC. Obviously Fitzgerald couldn't prove who actually did that but also obviously Bush didn't pardon Libby. For doing that.

623 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:53:26pm

re: #619 Olsonist

She was a NOC in 2003. Period.

i don't know how many times i have to keep saying the same thing. she was neither covert at the time, nor had she been in a foreign covert role in the prior 5 years. those are the criteria necessary for disclosure to be illegal.

facts...they're what's for dinner!

624 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:53:58pm

re: #622 Olsonist

She was a NOC in 2003 and it was illegal to disclose the identity of a NOC. Obviously Fitzgerald couldn't prove who actually did that but also obviously Bush didn't pardon Libby. For doing that.

it is only illegal in the case i mention in #623

625 Boogberg  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:53:58pm

re: #614 Thanos

I've got one of those in the basement AKA a "500 model" (from either Bell prior to the breakup, or Western Electric after) Mine is called the "halloween phone" because the case parts are mixed between an orange phone and black phone.

There's videos on Youtube that show how to repair those things. We never had a problem with ours when I was a kid though. Damn near indestructible.

626 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:54:50pm

re: #623 Aceofwhat?

Dang, so you're saying that disclosing the identity of a NOC serving in DC is like totally ok?

Wow.

627 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:56:06pm

re: #626 Olsonist

Dang, so you're saying that disclosing the identity of a NOC serving in DC is like totally ok?

Wow.

No, i am saying that the specific instance we are discussing was not illegal. I have provided you with the criteria for it to be illegal.

Stop pretending i'm saying things that i'm not just because the facts don't line up the way that you like them. It's impolite.

628 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:56:56pm

re: #625 Boogberg

There's videos on Youtube that show how to repair those things. We never had a problem with ours when I was a kid though. Damn near indestructible.

Indeed - I once grabbed one by the line and handset cords and swung it into a concrete wall five times to demonstrate that. Although the case did crack and the dial got twisted the sucker still worked fine after I replaced the mouth and earpiece caps.

629 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 3:57:29pm

re: #625 Boogberg

There's videos on Youtube that show how to repair those things. We never had a problem with ours when I was a kid though. Damn near indestructible.

Which makes me wonder what happened to them all.

630 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:00:08pm

re: #627 Aceofwhat?

The specific instance was that she still had NOC status in 2003 while serving in DC. With her cover blown:

(1) it blew her NOC cover
(2) she could never serve covert again
(3) it blew her cover organizations
(4) it endangered every contact she ever had undercover or NOC.

All this for political payback. Against her husband.

Nice.

631 Boogberg  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:00:43pm

re: #629 Cato the Elder

Which makes me wonder what happened to them all.

Touchtone killed the radial guy. :D

632 Randall Gross  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:01:34pm

re: #629 Cato the Elder

Which makes me wonder what happened to them all.

Like many of the "stepper switches" that were common at the same time many of them got shipped to Japan and China for salvage, and returned to the US as cheap junk and Toyotas...

633 Mocking Jay  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:02:28pm

Feh. I'm more upset at how rare it is to talk to a real customer service human nowadays.

If I ever have to call a company and there's no English option, well then I'll be pissed.

634 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:02:31pm

re: #630 Olsonist

The specific instance was that she still had NOC status in 2003 while serving in DC. With her cover blown:

(1) it blew her NOC cover
(2) she could never serve covert again
(3) it blew her cover organizations
(4) it endangered every contact she ever had undercover or NOC.

All this for political payback. Against her husband.

Nice.

Gah. For the third time, it was not illegal. Let me quote Fitzpatrick himself.

In order to establish a violation of Title 50, United States Code, Section 421 [the Intelligence Identities Protection Act], it would be necessary to establish that Libby knew or believed that Plame was a person whose identity the CIA was making specific efforts to conceal and who had carried out covert work overseas within the last 5 years. To date, we have no direct evidence that Libby knew or believed that Wilson's wife was engaged in covert work.

I AM NOT SAYING IT WAS OK. Why are you having such a rough time separating "OK" from "illegal"?

The discussion is about the latter, not the former.

635 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:05:00pm

re: #633 JasonA

Feh. I'm more upset at how rare it is to talk to a real customer service human nowadays.

If I ever have to call a company and there's no English option, well then I'll be pissed.

Jorge's Pizza, ese, in el barrio.[no phone numbers allowed].

636 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:05:34pm

re: #634 Aceofwhat?

It was almost certainly illegal, Ace. There was obstruction of justice, so we'll never know for certain.

Which is something that there should be some shame about, but there is very little.

637 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:06:54pm

re: #634 Aceofwhat?

There is a long chain that Fitzgerald has to prove in order to prosecute and convict. His objective judgment does not mean that the actwas not illegal. It means that he did not have the evidence to convict. Notice the difference? He was always pretty clear about it.

638 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:09:06pm

re: #636 Obdicut

It was almost certainly illegal, Ace. There was obstruction of justice, so we'll never know for certain.

Which is something that there should be some shame about, but there is very little.

It certainly was not. Her last foreign assignment was in 1997, according to her own husband in his book.

Let's not revise teh historeh.

639 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:10:18pm

re: #606 dugmartsch

He is at least consistent in his cookery.

Whatever you think of the guy he's not jumping on a bandwagon or anything.

Great. He's a consistent kook. Why point that out?

640 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:10:24pm

re: #636 Obdicut

It was almost certainly illegal, Ace. There was obstruction of justice, so we'll never know for certain.

Which is something that there should be some shame about, but there is very little.

and of course we'll know for certain. we know what Libby lied about. and we know exactly where Valerie had been. what fact are you still casting about for that i can clear up for you?

641 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:10:31pm

re: #638 Aceofwhat?

I'm not going to go over this with you, Ace. It's a tired, shameful part of our political past that there is far too much defensiveness over.

The CIA is not going to forget who fucked with them like that. The GOP has wracked up more enemies in a shorter time than I can believe.

642 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:11:13pm

re: #641 Obdicut

I'm not going to go over this with you, Ace. It's a tired, shameful part of our political past that there is far too much defensiveness over.

The CIA is not going to forget who fucked with them like that. The GOP has wracked up more enemies in a shorter time than I can believe.

not the question. the question was whether it was illegal. concede that it was not, and i'll happily move to the question of whether it was shameful.

643 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:12:29pm

re: #642 Aceofwhat?

I'm not going to concede a damn thing, Ace. There was obstruction of justice, and so whether or not it was illegal will never be known. That's what obstruction of justice does; it hides the truth.

644 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:16:13pm

re: #643 Obdicut

I'm not going to concede a damn thing, Ace. There was obstruction of justice, and so whether or not it was illegal will never be known. That's what obstruction of justice does; it hides the truth.


What exactly do you think was obstructed? We know EXACTLY what Libby lied about. What fact left uncovered would you like me to reveal for you?

And if you don't want to concede that it was illegal, why change the subject to a tired, shameful etc. etc. defensiveness etc. etc.

Can we just kick the facts around for a bit first? Aside from calling Joe Wilson a douchebag (because i think he is), i've been trying to keep this little discussion on the fact rails. Help.

645 Cato the Elder  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:18:24pm

re: #631 Boogberg

Touchtone killed the radial guy. :D

Those damned Shakespeare characters! Always killing someone.

646 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:21:40pm

re: #644 Aceofwhat?

What exactly do you think was obstructed? We know EXACTLY what Libby lied about.

No, you don't. You do know what has been disclosed. Valerie Plame was a career professional in counter-proliferation who took her responsibilities seriously. She did in fact put her life on the line. He job was secret and she protected your ass. You do know that. The rest she'll take to the grave, without thanks but professional to the end.

647 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:23:19pm

re: #646 Olsonist

No, you don't. You do know what has been disclosed. Valerie Plame was a career professional in counter-proliferation who took her responsibilities seriously. She did in fact put her life on the line. He job was secret and she protected your ass. You do know that. The rest she'll take to the grave, without thanks but professional to the end.

She had not been on foreign covert duty since 1997. I am reserving the emotional part of the discussion until we are clear on the legal part of the discussion.

648 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:23:51pm

re: #644 Aceofwhat?

Why do you think Joe Wilson is a douche bag?

649 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:24:30pm

re: #644 Aceofwhat?

And if you don't want to concede that it was illegal, why change the subject to a tired, shameful etc. etc. defensiveness etc. etc.

It's not a change of subject, Ace. I'm mentioning that the subject kind of sickens me.

Can we just kick the facts around for a bit first? Aside from calling Joe Wilson a douchebag (because i think he is), i've been trying to keep this little discussion on the fact rails. Help.

No. I have no fucking interest, as I said, in going around this. This argument is cold and over. Libby obstructed justice, and that is the only absolute fact we can say. Those who are going to draw a conclusion from what happened already have.

It was one of the things that made me feel most antipathy toward Bush's administration, the carelessness with which they treated our intelligence assets in this affair, the absolute hypocrisy of saying that they'd get to the bottom of things, then stonewalling, and then commuting Libby.

650 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:25:53pm

re: #648 Olsonist

Why do you think Joe Wilson is a douche bag?

He lied about the yellowcake.

651 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:26:19pm

re: #647 Aceofwhat?

If she had been serving foreign covert since 1997, you'd never know. The CIA wouldn't allow that fact to be used in court--they have the right to object. Basically your pseudo legalistic argument is a cover for a political judgment.

652 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:26:34pm

re: #649 Obdicut

No. I have no fucking interest, as I said, in going around this. This argument is cold and over. Libby obstructed justice, and that is the only absolute fact we can say. Those who are going to draw a conclusion from what happened already have.

It was one of the things that made me feel most antipathy toward Bush's administration, the carelessness with which they treated our intelligence assets in this affair, the absolute hypocrisy of saying that they'd get to the bottom of things, then stonewalling, and then commuting Libby.

if you don't want to debate it, at least do me the favor of not debating it.

653 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:27:01pm

re: #652 Aceofwhat?

if you don't want to debate it, at least do me the favor of not debating it.

Then if I say I don't want to go round on it, don't reply back going around on it.

654 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:28:02pm

re: #651 Olsonist

If she had been serving foreign covert since 1997, you'd never know. The CIA wouldn't allow that fact to be used in court--they have the right to object. Basically your pseudo legalistic argument is a cover for a political judgment.

Whoops. Her husband wrote in his book that they returned to the US in 1997, a fact since confirmed by Valerie herself.

655 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:29:09pm

re: #653 Obdicut

Then if I say I don't want to go round on it, don't reply back going around on it.

Dude. I'm the one who wants to debate it. If you don't want to go round on it, don't weigh in. It's passive-aggressive...like you just want to take a shot and run.

Of course i'm going to reply. I'm enjoying myself!

656 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:30:32pm

re: #654 Aceofwhat?

Whoops. If she's covert, she's not going to tell you she's covert. If she's covert, the CIA is not going to let her testify. She was NOC. That much was outed by Novak. That much you know. The rest you think you know.

657 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:32:12pm

re: #655 Aceofwhat?

I'm not taking a shot, Ace. I'm telling you that if we argued for a hundred hours you wouldn't change a damn bit of my mind on the subject, so attempts to do so are only going to irritate me.

658 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:32:48pm

Basically, you've got some patriotic professionals, Plame and Fitzgerald and Wilson, who take their jobs seriously and their responsibilities seriously.

And you've got Libby, Cheney and Novak.

659 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:37:19pm

re: #656 Olsonist

Whoops. If she's covert, she's not going to tell you she's covert. If she's covert, the CIA is not going to let her testify. She was NOC. That much was outed by Novak. That much you know. The rest you think you know.

Funny how her husband had no problem writing a tell-all about it. I do indeed think i know.

660 Olsonist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:38:24pm

re: #659 Aceofwhat?

A political judgment on your part.

661 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:38:31pm

re: #658 Olsonist

Basically, you've got some patriotic professionals, Plame and Fitzgerald and Wilson, who take their jobs seriously and their responsibilities seriously.

And you've got Libby, Cheney and Novak.

Joe Wilson is a first-rate hack. It's a damn shame that Armitage outed folks. Wilson's lack of credibility would have eventually been proven without Armitage resorting to low-life crap like that.

662 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:39:11pm

re: #660 Olsonist

A political judgment on your part.

Not according to her husband.

663 Aceofwhat?  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 4:40:21pm

One of the least disputed facts in this whole affair.

"In 1997, Plame moved back to the Washington area, partly because (as was recently reported in The New York Times) the C.I.A. suspected that her name may have been on a list given to the Russians by the double agent Aldrich Ames in 1994. "

-Vanity Fair

664 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 6:24:25pm

re: #635 Cato the Elder

Jorge's Pizza, ese, in el barrio.[no phone numbers allowed].

Nah, if you yell long enough in English, Jorge will put his daughter on and she'll take your order.

665 Achilles Tang  Sat, Apr 10, 2010 8:47:44pm

re: #620 Cato the Elder


The point is that there is no "press 1 for English". The fucking default is always English. Unless you're calling Jorge's Pizza in the barrio, ese.

Hey, the dinner and company was good; and now I finish off here to find you are wrong, again.

You must lead a sheltered telephone existence if you think there is no 1 for English.

I even called Bank of America once and when I didn't press 1 for English the system eventually said "No valid response entered; goodby" and hung up on me.

What is wrong with you PC people who don't think the principle of a common language is important?

English isn't my first language and I don't really give a shit if it's English, Spanish or Whatever; but there should be one common one.


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