What Racism at the Tea Parties?

Wingnuts • Views: 2,950

This week in Wausau, Wisconsin, organizers of a tea party rally had to cancel the appearance of a speaker from Alabama when it came to light that he had a history of speaking at white supremacist events.

Attorney John Eidsmoe agreed to withdraw after another tea party speaker complained. Eidsmoe has spoken before the neo-Confederate group League of the South, and at meetings of the Council of Conservative Citizens — an organization descended from the old White Citizens’ Councils set up in the 50s and 60s to resist the anti-segregation movement after Brown v. Board of Education.

The Southern Poverty Law Center has a report on one of the CCC meetings addressed by Eidsmoe, at which the featured speaker was George Wallace Jr.

In the audience listening to Wallace were a number of leading white supremacists. They included Don Black, proprietor of stormfront.org, the most influential hate site on the Internet, and former Alabama grand dragon of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan; Jamie Kelso, right-hand man and Louisiana roommate of former Klan leader David Duke; Jared Taylor, editor of the neo-eugenicist American Renaissance magazine; Ed Fields, an aging white supremacist leader from Georgia; Alabama CCC leader Leonard “Flagpole” Wilson, who got his nickname shouting “Keep Bama white!” from atop a flagpole during University of Alabama race riots in 1956; and the CCC’s national leader, St. Louis personal injury lawyer Gordon Lee Baum. …

Also speaking at the most recent convention was John Eidsmoe, a former law school professor and close friend and one-time legal adviser to Roy Moore, the Alabama chief justice ejected from his post for defying federal court orders to remove a Ten Commandments monument from the Supreme Court rotunda. Like Moore, Eidsmoe has suggested that the government “may not act contrary to God’s laws.”

Some people will say “good for the organizers for showing him the door,” but why was Eidsmoe ever invited in the first place?

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605 comments
1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:08:09pm

Good for them for showing him the door. Wonder what he was bringing to the table before they found him out to be a dick-weed that would make them want to invite him?

2 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:09:29pm

Sorry, but I just don't believe that no one knew his history.

3 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:12:18pm

re: #2 Charles

In fact one is known for precisely one's history.

4 Bagua  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:12:37pm

I'll Overcome Someday


- Mississippi Bracey
5 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:12:55pm

I believe we will see more of this in the future. While I am not a tea party animal myself, I have always felt there were plenty of good people at those rallies who had no idea about some of the lunatics latching onto (and frequently leading) the movement. And I feel that Charles has done a really good job bringing these connections to light. So when the GOP returns to sanity (which it will), I feel the good folks in the party will be embarrassed to be associated with these hard core racists and shun them. At least I hope that is the case.

6 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:13:54pm

re: #5 _RememberTonyC

I believe we will see more of this in the future. While I am not a tea party animal myself, I have always felt there were plenty of good people at those rallies who had no idea about some of the lunatics latching onto (and frequently leading) the movement. And I feel that Charles has done a really good job bringing these connections to light. So when the GOP returns to sanity (which it will), I feel the good folks in the party will be embarrassed to be associated with these hard core racists and shun them. At least I hope that is the case.

the law of big numbers applies everywhere.

7 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:14:11pm

Ellefson, the rally’s organizer, said a friend of hers recommended Eidsmoe after seeing a speech he gave on the Constitution. But Ellefson, after seeing the same information Koschnick did, decided against having him at the rally.

From the story...

So someone heard him speak on the constitution and recommended him to the organizers, who invited him. Then someone said, "Hey! The dude is close to a freakin' Klansman!" then the organizers said, "Oh, shit! Dude! You're un-invited."

Sounds like a close call, but not that they were being racists. He's a total tool though.

8 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:14:18pm

re: #5 _RememberTonyC

I believe we will see more of this in the future. While I am not a tea party animal myself, I have always felt there were plenty of good people at those rallies who had no idea about some of the lunatics latching onto (and frequently leading) the movement. And I feel that Charles has done a really good job bringing these connections to light. So when the GOP returns to sanity (which it will), I feel the good folks in the party will be embarrassed to be associated with these hard core racists and shun them. At least I hope that is the case.

Will this be before or after the Rino Hunt?

9 allegro  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:14:47pm

re: #5 _RememberTonyC

While I am not a tea party animal myself, I have always felt there were plenty of good people at those rallies who had no idea about some of the lunatics latching onto (and frequently leading) the movement.

The horrific racist signs so prevalent at the rallies wasn't a clue? I dig what you're trying to be convinced of, but it just doesn't hold a lot of realistic evidence.

10 steve_davis  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:19:04pm

I'm assuming he got asked to step down because of the presence of the personal injury lawyer....there are some bridges that teabaggery just feels morally it can't cross.

11 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:19:10pm

re: #3 Ojoe

In fact one is known for precisely one's history.

/not who they walk with?

12 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:19:11pm

re: #8 Jeff In Ohio

Will this be before or after the Rino Hunt?

during

13 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:20:22pm

re: #9 allegro

The horrific racist signs so prevalent at the rallies wasn't a clue? I dig what you're trying to be convinced of, but it just doesn't hold a lot of realistic evidence.

sure it was. but sometimes people see evil and lack the courage to confront it even if they aren't necessarily evil themselves. people can be slow to learn ...

14 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:20:56pm

re: #5 _RememberTonyC

Of course there are good people there. Fiscal cons congregate at Tea Party events. But as in the rotten apple analogy, one or two racist sign ruin the reputation of the people putting on the event. One racist speaker, or organizer...

15 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:22:10pm

re: #14 Rightwingconspirator

Of course there are good people there. Fiscal cons congregate at Tea Party events. But as in the rotten apple analogy, one or two racist sign ruin the reputation of the people putting on the event. One racist speaker, or organizer...

again the law of big numbers.

16 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:23:07pm

re: #11 brookly red

If it quacks and waddles, it's a ...

17 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:23:26pm

The good people know there are many to brand them and recognize the importance of policing them selves.

18 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:23:41pm

and btw Wausau, Wisconsin doesn't sound like it was named for the pilgrims.

19 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:24:43pm

re: #5 _RememberTonyC

[...] So when the GOP returns to sanity (which it will), I feel the good folks in the party will be embarrassed to be associated with these hard core racists and shun them. At least I hope that is the case.

I don't know how old you are, but I'm not necessarily expecting the GOP to go all sane again in my lifetime.

20 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:25:44pm

re: #14 Rightwingconspirator

Of course there are good people there. Fiscal cons congregate at Tea Party events. But as in the rotten apple analogy, one or two racist sign ruin the reputation of the people putting on the event. One racist speaker, or organizer...

Everything I've read here asserts that the people putting on the events are the problem. Not true? How about this guy?

“I got more knife wounds in my back from Republican operatives, than Democrats could ever do,” Williams said. He added, “The Democrats at least stand there and tell me they hate me, and tell me that they hate America. These Republicans smile at me, shake my hand and then they stab me in the back.”

Who are the sane ones?

21 Sigma_x  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:26:12pm

re: #13 _RememberTonyC

sure it was. but sometimes people see evil and lack the courage to confront it even if they aren't necessarily evil themselves. people can be slow to learn ...

I remember being at a hardcore concert in D.C. back in the 80's, a Minor Threat/Youth of Today show, and some skinheads showed up and started spraying mace in the air around this crowd of black kids that were there, and generally causing trouble.

Well, those skinheads got the ever-lovin' dogshit beat out of them at that show, and had to be carried out - literally.

What I don't understand is why - if there's so many "good people" at these Tea Party protests - they're not doing anything and everything to distance themselves from these assholes? I'm not suggesting that they gang up lynch-mob style and beat up on the racists at the protests (although I wouldn't be upset if they did), but I've yet to see a video of anyone even half-heartedly protesting those protesters, the ones that are supposedly giving them all a bad name.

22 Gus  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:26:20pm

John Eidsmoe on Orly Taitz:

John Eidsmoe, an expert on the U.S. Constitution now working with the Foundation on Moral Law, an organization founded by former Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore, previously told WND the demand was a legitimate course of action.

"She basically is asking, 'By what authority' is Obama president," he told WND when the issue first arose. "In other words, 'I want you to tell me by what authority. I don't really think you should hold the office.'"

Eidsmoe said it's clear that Obama has something in the documentation of his history, including his birth certificate, college records and other documents that "he does not want the public to know."

Birds of a feather...

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:26:24pm

I remember reading this blog back in the day when there were frequent threads about left-wing protests against the war, etc.

To the people now making careful distinctions between the majority and the few bad seeds with the scary signs, may I ask that you ask yourself how careful you were to make and articulate such distinctions when the protesters were marching with ANSWER and Code Pink? If there's a difference, why?

No need to post here if you don't care to, although I'd like to hear people's thoughts. I just want people to consider how you judge a group.

24 Bagua  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:26:56pm

The Humans' Race


- Sweatshop Union
25 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:26:57pm

re: #20 Jeff In Ohio

By here I mean LGF.

Dinner time.

26 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:26:59pm

re: #20 Jeff In Ohio

Who are the sane ones?

Heh. What's funny is that northerners often say the same about southerners...

27 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:27:22pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember reading this blog back in the day when there were frequent threads about left-wing protests against the war, etc.

To the people now making careful distinctions between the majority and the few bad seeds with the scary signs, may I ask that you ask yourself how careful you were to make and articulate such distinctions when the protesters were marching with ANSWER and Code Pink? If there's a difference, why?

No need to post here if you don't care to, although I'd like to hear people's thoughts. I just want people to consider how you judge a group.

you done good.

28 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:27:55pm

re: #20 Jeff In Ohio

Who are the sane ones?

I dunno, but I'm wondering if any Democrats have actually told this man that they hate America, or if he is lying through his teeth.

29 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:28:30pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist
We're in a strange position. Let's say we demean Sarah Palin for saying nuculeer. We can also point out Obama's gaffs but that tit for tat is trite.

30 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:29:21pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

Well I have been on the "left" in my early days & I recall that anytime there was a group of people trying to make changes, it automatically attracted some pretty unsavory characters. They have a lust for power. They're unbalanced. They come like moths to a flame.

31 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:30:28pm

re: #3 Ojoe

In fact one is known for precisely one's history.

Absolutely.
Wake up call (or it can be!) -
Those who want the racists OUT and ininvited and unwelcome need to check out the speaker suggestions before extending the invitations.

I'm not really holding my breath.

32 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:30:36pm

re: #16 Ojoe

If it quacks and waddles, it's a ...

A WITCH!

33 allegro  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:30:36pm

re: #29 Plato

Let's say we demean Sarah Palin for saying nuculeer. We can also point out Obama's gaffs but that tit for tat is trite.

You did not just try to draw an equivalence between the oratory skills of Palin and Obama.

34 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:31:16pm

re: #32 negativ

Upding for PYTHON!

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:31:27pm

re: #29 Plato

We're in a strange position. Let's say we demean Sarah Palin for saying nuculeer. We can also point out Obama's gaffs but that tit for tat is trite.

True, and we play that game all the time.

This is a bit beyond that, I think.

36 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:31:39pm

re: #20 Jeff In Ohio

Who are the sane ones?

Good question. Not this guy.

“I got more knife wounds in my back from Republican operatives, than Democrats could ever do,” Williams said. He added, “The Democrats at least stand there and tell me they hate me, and tell me that they hate America. These Republicans smile at me, shake my hand and then they stab me in the back.”

WTF? Have you ever actually met a Democrat who said "I hate America?"

Sure, maybe they do in their satanic Wiccan coven meetings, but then they say it in Aramaic, and backwards.

Joe McCarthy ain't got nothin' on these nuts.

37 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:32:06pm

re: #20 Jeff In Ohio

My best reply to that would be images or video of non racist speakers or signs at the events. Not hard to find, but I'll not link them here, apart from those I have in the past.

The Tea Parties include the good and the bad. Of course only the bad are rightly worth calling out so there you have it. The sane among them are ignored, the racists are called out.

Where else will the small gov or fiscal conservatives be expected to be found except at home?

38 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:32:34pm

re: #30 Ojoe

Well I have been on the "left" in my early days & I recall that anytime there was a group of people trying to make changes, it automatically attracted some pretty unsavory characters. They have a lust for power. They're unbalanced. They come like moths to a flame.

That's true. So, how do we judge the Tea Parties? By who organizes them? By who goes? By the assurance that lots of people there are really good folks and regular fiscons?

39 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:32:46pm

re: #33 allegro
Not skills but mispronounciations. When one makes a mistake and is demeaned for it, as a defense, it's made less by comparison.

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:33:06pm

re: #31 reine.de.tout

Absolutely.
Wake up call (or it can be!) -
Those who want the racists OUT and ininvited and unwelcome need to check out the speaker suggestions before extending the invitations.

I'm not really holding my breath.

Is that so much to ask? That someone sit down and Google a person, and make a few calls, before inviting them to speak?

41 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:33:20pm

re: #36 Cato the Elder

It got said to my face during Bush 43's first term. Before 9/11.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:33:38pm

re: #36 Cato the Elder

WTF? Have you ever actually met a Democrat who said "I hate America?"

Sure, maybe they do in their satanic Wiccan coven meetings, but then they say it in Aramaic, and backwards.

Joe McCarthy ain't got nothin' on these nuts.

Yeah, I call bullshit on that.

43 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:33:44pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember reading this blog back in the day when there were frequent threads about left-wing protests against the war, etc.

To the people now making careful distinctions between the majority and the few bad seeds with the scary signs, may I ask that you ask yourself how careful you were to make and articulate such distinctions when the protesters were marching with ANSWER and Code Pink? If there's a difference, why?

No need to post here if you don't care to, although I'd like to hear people's thoughts. I just want people to consider how you judge a group.

oooh...lovely comment, SFZ. same question could apply to those that defended the 'lefty' rallies you speak of. inconsistency, thy name is human!

i've been personally trying not to say much in defense of the TP for just that reason. i'd rather be overly critical of those who once shared my political views than be overly generous, especially on a subject as sensitive as racism.

whether i've been successful is a fantastic question, and probably not a question that i can answer accurately.

my .02

44 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:33:50pm

re: #29 Plato

We're in a strange position. Let's say we demean Sarah Palin for saying nuculeer. We can also point out Obama's gaffs but that tit for tat is trite.

Sarah Palin demeans herself. We just notice.

45 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:34:17pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember reading this blog back in the day when there were frequent threads about left-wing protests against the war, etc.

To the people now making careful distinctions between the majority and the few bad seeds with the scary signs, may I ask that you ask yourself how careful you were to make and articulate such distinctions when the protesters were marching with ANSWER and Code Pink? If there's a difference, why?

No need to post here if you don't care to, although I'd like to hear people's thoughts. I just want people to consider how you judge a group.

I have no recollection of what I actually said.
I know I've tried to keep distinctions in my head.
Whether that came out in what I posted, I have no clue.
At least some of the (now-banned) really hard-core conservative folks who were here saw something in my posts that caused them to conclude I wasn't quite conservative enough for their company.

But I honestly have no clue what that something was.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:34:30pm

re: #41 Rightwingconspirator

It got said to my face during Bush 43's first term. Before 9/11.

By operatives of the Democratic Party? BULL.

47 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:34:41pm

re: #38 SanFranciscoZionist

I think you have to look at the whole group and make some estimate of the relative proportions of the types of people in it.

Boring and difficult to do.

48 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:34:57pm

re: #38 SanFranciscoZionist
I think tea parties were totally spontainious in the beginning with a call from talk radio hosts. Now as it is evolving it is having growing pains. Part of the growth is weeding out undesirables but first identifying them, then making judgements about them.

49 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:36:03pm

re: #44 Cato the Elder
We also choose to demean her rather than lefty types...here.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:36:20pm

re: #48 Plato

I think tea parties were totally spontainious in the beginning with a call from talk radio hosts. Now as it is evolving it is having growing pains. Part of the growth is weeding out undesirables but first identifying them, then making judgements about them.

"A call from talk radio hosts" is not exactly spontaneous, but OK.

So far I have seen nothing of worth in this movement, and I think it's bullshit, but maybe they will surprise me.

51 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:37:01pm

re: #36 Cato the Elder

WTF? Have you ever actually met a Democrat who said "I hate America?"

Sure, maybe they do in their satanic Wiccan coven meetings, but then they say it in Aramaic, and backwards.

Joe McCarthy ain't got nothin' on these nuts.


well there was a certain preacher who did say something about damning America... I can't recall his name.

52 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:37:29pm

re: #29 Plato

We're in a strange position. Let's say we demean Sarah Palin for saying nuculeer. We can also point out Obama's gaffs but that tit for tat is trite.

Having been guilty of making quite a few gaffes in my lifetime, I worry more about what's going on in someone's thought processes and their actions, than I do what they've mispronounced.

53 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:37:41pm

re: #48 Plato

I think tea parties were totally spontainious in the beginning with a call from talk radio hosts. Now as it is evolving it is having growing pains. Part of the growth is weeding out undesirables but first identifying them, then making judgements about them.

Funny, they said the same thing about this nascent Bavarian party back in the 1920s.

54 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:37:58pm

re: #49 Plato

We also choose to demean her rather than lefty types...here.

Hardly true. People here 'demean' whoever they feel like demeaning. I have seen Nancy Pelosi, Obama, Harry Reid, and Biden all raked over the coals on a regular basis.

And that's not even touching what people say about real 'lefty types'. Seen what's been said about Carter, Cindy Sheehan, McKinney, Medea Benjamin, etc. in just the past few weeks?

55 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:38:53pm

re: #54 SanFranciscoZionist

hell yeah.

56 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:39:12pm

re: #49 Plato

We also choose to demean her rather than lefty types...here.

"We"? Who is this "we" of whom you speak?

I'm getting a bit of a gamey whiff, here.

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:39:19pm

re: #51 brookly red

well there was a certain preacher who did say something about damning America... I can't recall his name.

Yes, and Jerry Falwell said that 9/11 was God's punishment on us for our sinful ways, but the dude up above said that Democratic operatives said that they hated America, and that is total malicious bullshit. Off the charts.

58 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:39:28pm

re: #38 SanFranciscoZionist

I think we are all sophisticated enough here to understand it is a volatile mix of people. The racists or violent ones are the ones we fear so that's who we worry over. Thats who gets called out. Fine with me. It's just apropriate to understand that there may be a klansman attending Tea Party rallies, his next rally with his guys will be a whole lot worse to behold than the Tea Party rally.

So of course we have some ordinary and kind if misguided people there.

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

By an operative? No of course not, it was by a really pissed off Dem right after the supreme court decision on Bush's favor. He happens to be a activist but not what I would call an operative.

59 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:39:51pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

Is that so much to ask? That someone sit down and Google a person, and make a few calls, before inviting them to speak?

Not at all. That's why CJ's caveat in the post holds meaning for me...because whatever credit they deserve for kicking this guy out is diluted by (a) their inability to figure this out in advance...how hard could it have been...and (b) the fact that guys like this are even drawn to the TP's in the first place.

To me, this piece of news is teapartyhopey. Now we need teapartychangey.

(with lighthearted apologies to my President/)

60 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:39:57pm

re: #51 brookly red

well there was a certain preacher who did say something about damning America... I can't recall his name.

Pat Robertson?

61 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:40:16pm

re: #51 brookly red

well there was a certain preacher who did say something about damning America... I can't recall his name.

oh SNAP

62 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:41:14pm

re: #43 Aceofwhat?

oooh...lovely comment, SFZ. same question could apply to those that defended the 'lefty' rallies you speak of. inconsistency, thy name is human!

i've been personally trying not to say much in defense of the TP for just that reason. i'd rather be overly critical of those who once shared my political views than be overly generous, especially on a subject as sensitive as racism.

whether i've been successful is a fantastic question, and probably not a question that i can answer accurately.

my .02

Wife and I attended the large ANSWER anti-war protest in DC. It needed to be done. We left early when the anarchist ninjas an the Nork cheerleaders got started. It still needed to be done.

63 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:41:26pm

re: #58 Rightwingconspirator

I think we are all sophisticated enough here to understand it is a volatile mix of people. The racists or violent ones are the ones we fear so that's who we worry over. Thats who gets called out. Fine with me. It's just apropriate to understand that there may be a klansman attending Tea Party rallies, his next rally with his guys will be a whole lot worse to behold than the Tea Party rally.

So of course we have some ordinary and kind if misguided people there.

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

By an operative? No of course not, it was by a really pissed off Dem right after the supreme court decision on Bush's favor. He happens to be a activist but not what I would call an operative.

OK. So a registered Democrat spouted off and said something really obnoxious. You have my sympathies.

That does not change that what the gentleman quoted above said is obviously a malicious, deliberate lie.

64 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:42:20pm

re: #60 Cato the Elder

Pat Robertson?

no guess again...

[Link: blog.beliefnet.com...]re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, and Jerry Falwell said that 9/11 was God's punishment on us for our sinful ways, but the dude up above said that Democratic operatives said that they hated America, and that is total malicious bullshit. Off the charts.

true but this is not that.

65 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:42:54pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember reading this blog back in the day when there were frequent threads about left-wing protests against the war, etc.

To the people now making careful distinctions between the majority and the few bad seeds with the scary signs, may I ask that you ask yourself how careful you were to make and articulate such distinctions when the protesters were marching with ANSWER and Code Pink? If there's a difference, why?

No need to post here if you don't care to, although I'd like to hear people's thoughts. I just want people to consider how you judge a group.

For what it's worth (not much, as it happens), I have always held in contempt people who think shouting jump rope rhyme slogans and waving posterboard has any effect other than making them look like idiots. Once in a blue moon, some actual cleverness crops up, but mostly it's just embarrassing mediocrity on parade.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go paint Hitler mustaches on pictures of Laura Bush.

66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:43:10pm

Holy Cow! What a shot!

Mickelson.

67 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:43:48pm

re: #61 Aceofwhat?

oh SNAP

O, snip.

Pastors Wright and Robertson have identical views of God's judgment on America, just for different reasons.

68 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:43:58pm

re: #62 Decatur Deb

Wife and I attended the large ANSWER anti-war protest in DC. It needed to be done. We left early when the anarchist ninjas an the Nork cheerleaders got started. It still needed to be done.

That's fascinating, actually. First i'd say that anarchist ninjas and nork cheerleaders feel more buffoonish and less divisive to me than old-fashioned racism, but maybe that's just me. So i'll offer that the TP seems to have a steeper hill to climb.

At the same time, what does that make you say about ANSWER now that you reflect on it?

69 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:45:07pm

One of the logos of the White Citizens' Councils:

Image: ZZ3CAF13FD.jpg

70 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:45:37pm

re: #67 Cato the Elder

O, snip.

Pastors Wright and Robertson have identical views of God's judgment on America, just for different reasons.

well I wouldn't vote for anyone who attended Robertson's church as a matter of principal... would you?

71 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:45:50pm

re: #67 Cato the Elder

O, snip.

Pastors Wright and Robertson have identical views of God's judgment on America, just for different reasons.

agree completely. except that only one of them answered the question.

but i updinged brookly, you, and SFZ because all three were snappy.

72 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:46:27pm

re: #68 Aceofwhat?

That's fascinating, actually. First i'd say that anarchist ninjas and nork cheerleaders feel more buffoonish and less divisive to me than old-fashioned racism, but maybe that's just me. So i'll offer that the TP seems to have a steeper hill to climb.

At the same time, what does that make you say about ANSWER now that you reflect on it?

They had the only game in town. I put up with them because we were about to send another generation of my soldier co-workers into another Nam.

73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:46:32pm

re: #70 brookly red

well I wouldn't vote for anyone who attended Robertson's church as a matter of principal... would you?

Or pastor Wright's church...

(heh)

74 blueraven  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:46:41pm

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

True, and we play that game all the time.

This is a bit beyond that, I think.

You are being modest. It is way beyond that.

75 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:46:57pm

re: #64 brookly red

true but this is not that.

How not? The quote was on this thread. It was obviously a lie, and one designed to portray Democrats in the worst possible light. I am not going to stop calling bullshit on it because fucking Rev. Wright yelled out something in a sermon that closely parallels things said by numerous influential conservative evangelical figures.

76 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:47:00pm

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Or pastor Wright's church...

(heh)

Bingo! we have a winner!

77 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:47:04pm

re: #70 brookly red

well I wouldn't vote for anyone who attended Robertson's church as a matter of principal... would you?

You didn't vote for Bush? Or McCain?

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:47:28pm

re: #67 Cato the Elder

O, snip.

Pastors Wright and Robertson have identical views of God's judgment on America, just for different reasons.

But we're pretty sure that Robertson means it in a better way...

79 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:47:40pm

re: #70 brookly red

well I wouldn't vote for anyone who attended Robertson's church as a matter of principal... would you?

you beat me to it. one extension of SFZ's question would be whether some would be as quick to defend Bush had he attended Robertson's church for 20 years...or whether others would be so quick to seize on it.

80 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:47:52pm

re: #78 SanFranciscoZionist

Snicker.

(you're on fire)

81 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:48:46pm

re: #77 Cato the Elder

You didn't vote for Bush? Or McCain?

did either attend regularly for long periods of time... if they did them I am dead wrong.

82 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:48:53pm

re: #72 Decatur Deb

They had the only game in town. I put up with them because we were about to send another generation of my soldier co-workers into another Nam.

so it's understandable that some put up with a few crazy posterboards because they believe that the TP is the only viable game in town?

83 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:49:14pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #63 SanFranciscoZionist

Angry partisans abound in difficult times. Harsh speech deserves to get called out. Outdoor protests bring out the most active, motivated people. Some motivated by anger. The right thing to do is call it out every time. Like today. Hopefully without getting carried away. So far, like today.

84 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:49:33pm

re: #82 Aceofwhat?

so it's understandable that some put up with a few crazy posterboards because they believe that the TP is the only viable game in town?

We left early.

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:49:34pm

re: #70 brookly red

well I wouldn't vote for anyone who attended Robertson's church as a matter of principal... would you?

Robertson has had substantial access to the White House over the years, so pretending that he has less influence on American politics than Wright is just silly.

86 allegro  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:50:04pm

re: #82 Aceofwhat?

a few crazy posterboards

Now I'm calling bullshit.

87 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:50:13pm

re: #78 SanFranciscoZionist

But we're pretty sure that Robertson means it in a better way...

no way. he's every bit as bad. i'd no sooner be caught in his church that Wright's...

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:50:14pm

re: #70 brookly red

well I wouldn't vote for anyone who attended Robertson's church as a matter of principal... would you?

And good job of deflection. Do you actually believe that the Tea Party schmuck quoted above has actually had Democratic operatives tell him that they hated America?

89 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:50:33pm

re: #79 Aceofwhat?


Robertson had access and influence on Bush in a way that Wright has not.

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:50:50pm

re: #72 Decatur Deb

They had the only game in town. I put up with them because we were about to send another generation of my soldier co-workers into another Nam.

I decided to stay the hell away. They were the only game in town, but I wasn't going near them.

91 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:51:05pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

Robertson has had substantial access to the White House over the years, so pretending that he has less influence on American politics than Wright is just silly.

well if one is bad than the other is bad too... some are past tense, some are present.

92 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:51:10pm

re: #86 allegro

Now I'm calling bullshit.

that is why you fail

93 Gus  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:51:25pm

re: #69 Charles

One of the logos of the White Citizens' Councils:

Image: ZZ3CAF13FD.jpg

Some history here:

White Resistance - Brown-Tougaloo Project

White citizens in Mississippi reacted to the Freedom Movement with legislative initiatives, state funded organizations, and private groups all designed to maintain racial inequality and prevent blacks from voting. As the Freedom Movement activists looked to the federal government, beginning with the Brown v. Board of Education case in 1954 that ordered the desegregation of public schools, Sketch of Thomas Jefferson with the headline Thomas Jefferson's Prophecy About Race Relations whites in Mississippi used the language of state’s rights versus the federal government to argue for the continuation of segregation. Many of the initiatives first tried in Mississippi spread to neighboring Southern states.

Created in 1956 by the Mississippi Legislature, the Mississippi State Sovereignty Commission employed the philosophy of state’s rights to end the civil rights initiatives of various grass roots organizations as well as those of the federal government. More specifically, the Commission fought to preserve white power and black disenfranchisement which had been a part of the state’s history for centuries. Members of the commission included numerous state political figures (such as the governor, attorney general, president of the Senate) as well as citizens who were appointed by the governor. A listing of the members shows that most state officials were members of the organization which directly worked to maintain segregation...

In 1961, William Higgs, a white Mississippi attorney, filed suit on behalf of himself, R.L.T. Smith, and all black citizens and taxpayers of the state against the Citizens’ Council and Mississippi State Sovereignty Commission for their unconstitutional and illegal use of state funds. The suit also stated that the “Citizens’ Council and Citizens’ Council Forum are organized solely for the purpose of advocating and actively assisting in resistance and violation of the 14th Amendment -- as they [blacks] secure equal treatment and facilities.” In 1968, the Citizens’ Council rebuilt its headquarters in Jackson, MS. As many southern states succumbed to federal mandatory school desegregation measures in the late 60s and early 70s, the Citizens’ Council established private council schools for white children, to prevent them from having to attend school with black children.

94 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:51:28pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist If you want a constitutency to vote for you, it's politically expedient to go to one church after the next.

95 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:51:33pm

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

I decided to stay the hell away. They were the only game in town, but I wasn't going near them.

I didn't do enough in the 60s.

96 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:52:00pm

re: #89 Obdicut

Robertson had access and influence on Bush in a way that Wright has not.

except for the 20 years where it was totally fine to be accessed and influenced by him.

97 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:52:08pm

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

And good job of deflection. Do you actually believe that the Tea Party schmuck quoted above has actually had Democratic operatives tell him that they hated America?

I don't know... I know lot's of people and some say some crazy stuff.

98 Reginald Perrin  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:52:08pm

re: #76 brookly red

Correct me if I am wrong but unlike Robertson and Falwell, Rev Wright didn't repeatedly make those types of comments on national television.

99 CuriousLurker  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:52:30pm

re: #13 _RememberTonyC

sure it was. but sometimes people see evil and lack the courage to confront it even if they aren't necessarily evil themselves. people can be slow to learn ...

Okay, so let's put this in a different context: I'm Muslim. We'll pretend that you know me to be a decent person. You notice that I keep showing up at rallies with a bunch of other Muslims that I claim are decent, but there's also this ever-present if small contingent of radicals who carry around signs calling for an Islamic state in the U.S., the destruction of Israel, and wearing t-shirts with nasty caricatures of "kafirs" on them, etc. Would you still give me & the other lacking-in-courage-but-not-necessarily-evil Muslims a pass, or would you take us to task over the company we've been keeping?

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just asking what your reaction would be.

100 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:53:01pm

re: #96 Aceofwhat?
Wright was disgraced for racism.

101 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:53:22pm

Oh how quickly the tread turned into another Rev. Wright debate.

re: #98 Reginald Perrin

Correct me if I am wrong but unlike Robertson and Falwell, Rev Wright didn't repeatedly make those types of comments on national television.

Only on the Fox loop. Made it seem like it happened like 50,000 times.

102 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:53:30pm

re: #96 Aceofwhat?

except for the 20 years where it was totally fine to be accessed and influenced by him.

Okay. Change it to 'as president', then. Whatever will get us there.

Robertson has had lots of influence at the White House through a number of administrations. So have a lot of other nutbar preachers.

This made it really difficult to treat the attack on Obama through Wright with anything other than contempt, for me.

103 allegro  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:53:50pm

re: #99 CuriousLurker

...radicals who carry around signs calling for an Islamic state in the U.S., the destruction of Israel, and wearing t-shirts with nasty caricatures of "kafirs" on them,...

Just a few crazy posterboards. Nothing objectionable there.

104 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:54:28pm

re: #91 brookly red

well if one is bad than the other is bad too... some are past tense, some are present.

Bullshit. Wright became an obsession, while the access and influence of people like Robertson is taken for granted in American politics.

105 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:54:53pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember reading this blog back in the day when there were frequent threads about left-wing protests against the war, etc.

To the people now making careful distinctions between the majority and the few bad seeds with the scary signs, may I ask that you ask yourself how careful you were to make and articulate such distinctions when the protesters were marching with ANSWER and Code Pink? If there's a difference, why?

No need to post here if you don't care to, although I'd like to hear people's thoughts. I just want people to consider how you judge a group.

I second this sentiment.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:55:05pm

re: #94 Plato

If you want a constitutency to vote for you, it's politically expedient to go to one church after the next.

What does that mean in the context of this discussion?

107 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:55:15pm

re: #98 Reginald Perrin

Correct me if I am wrong but unlike Robertson and Falwell, Rev Wright didn't repeatedly make those types of comments on national television.

well A. the media didn't cover it? and B. 2 wrongs don't make a right. The original premise was that no Democrats hate America... I say some do. Same as some TPs are racist. Big numbers no purity.

108 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:55:49pm

re: #102 Obdicut

Okay. Change it to 'as president', then. Whatever will get us there.

Robertson has had lots of influence at the White House through a number of administrations. So have a lot of other nutbar preachers.

This made it really difficult to treat the attack on Obama through Wright with anything other than contempt, for me.

i agree. that's the other half of the question...if one didn't bemoan Robertson's presence, it's totally inconsistent to get more than a little whiny about Wright.

109 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:56:15pm

re: #97 brookly red

I don't know... I know lot's of people and some say some crazy stuff.

He's not talking about 'lots of people'. He's talking about representatives of the Democratic Party. Why is it so hard for you to see that this is a smear job? What he's saying is obviously a politically motivated lie.

110 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:56:17pm

re: #104 SanFranciscoZionist

Bullshit. Wright became an obsession, while the access and influence of people like Robertson is taken for granted in American politics.

as you like it...

111 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:56:32pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

Wright Robertson Falwell...it's political expediency rather than belief...I think.

112 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:57:02pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember reading this blog back in the day when there were frequent threads about left-wing protests against the war, etc.

To the people now making careful distinctions between the majority and the few bad seeds with the scary signs, may I ask that you ask yourself how careful you were to make and articulate such distinctions when the protesters were marching with ANSWER and Code Pink? If there's a difference, why?

No need to post here if you don't care to, although I'd like to hear people's thoughts. I just want people to consider how you judge a group.

This is an excellent post and observation.

I'll tell you how I distinguish.

1. Batshit crazy is batshit crazy. The flavor of crazy is second order. I am an equal opportunity despiser of ignorant, arrogant, stupid and hurtful. I have the same contempt a silver-spoon campus revolutionary, pale skinned, pierced, with dread locks and a Che-shirt, spouting his crazy conspiracy theories as I do for the right wing nut job with tea bags hanging from his ears.

2. That said, there is also the very salient question of which side is a bigger threat. My unshorn "revolutionary" kid does not have the support of a major news network or major political party. The wingnuts are fueled by Fox and fed by the GOP. The crazy of the right has a much larger voice than the crazies of the left and they have much more influence.

3. The numbers deranged "revolutionaries" in their own minds from the left is really quite small and they are for the most part non-violent. However crazy you think Code Pink is (and yes those people are nuts) their idea of protest is performance art and whining. The right's idea of revolution is secession, guns and killing people. However threatening a giant puppet is, it has nothing on attacking the government, blowing up police or federal buildings, burning a cross or the very real threat to kill someone of a different sexual orientation.

So the short form is, on the level of the individual, crazy is crazy. On the level of the group, the right is currently vastly more of a menace.

113 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:57:27pm

re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist

He's not talking about 'lots of people'. He's talking about representatives of the Democratic Party. Why is it so hard for you to see that this is a smear job? What he's saying is obviously a politically motivated lie.

OK, OK... 4 legs good 2 legs bad. I hear you loud & clear.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:58:04pm

re: #110 brookly red

as you like it...

As it is.

115 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:58:10pm

Okay on the topic of racism. I was a bit taken aback by an advertisement for this show, which I have not heard and can not listen to. I do not have XM, I just caught this ad in a rented car. XM radio programming.
African-American Talk VARadio.com - VARadio.com

116 Reginald Perrin  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:58:19pm

re: #107 brookly red

Actually you have it backwards, the media seemed to pander to the white preachers and give them the opportunity to use their networks as a bull pulpit.

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:58:21pm

re: #111 Plato

Wright Robertson Falwell...it's political expediency rather than belief...I think.

Oh, yeah.

118 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:58:30pm

re: #113 brookly red

OK, OK... 4 legs good 2 legs bad. I hear you loud & clear.

Now you're just being snotty.

119 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 2:59:53pm

re: #118 Cato the Elder

Now you're just being snotty.

no absolutism is snotty... I from the beginning have cited the law of big numbers. There is no purity, period.

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:00:07pm

re: #113 brookly red

OK, OK... 4 legs good 2 legs bad. I hear you loud & clear.

Deleted my first three responses.

121 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:01:38pm

re: #119 brookly red

no absolutism is snotty... I from the beginning have cited the law of big numbers. There is no purity, period.

And the search for it takes us to very bad places.

122 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:01:44pm

re: #70 brookly red

well I wouldn't vote for anyone who attended Robertson's church as a matter of principal... would you?

Comparing Wright and Robertson is massively, cosmically bullshit false equivalency.

It's so cravenly dishonest it beggars belief.


Robertson was himself a presidential candidate.

Robertson had the BACKING of the White House. The ACCESS of the white house.

Robertson delivers massive political pull, and created the Christian Coalition.

Robertson associated and did business with with brutal, murderous dictators.

Robertson has his own bigoted television network.

Robertson has his own bigoted university.

Robertson is worth near as I can tell, a billion dollars.

What the hell? How can you even pretend to compare the two?

(but I know, a black preacher said something bad, so yeah they're exactly the same. WE UNDERSTAND.)

123 Reginald Perrin  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:02:01pm

correction to comment 116

bully pulpit

pimf

124 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:02:25pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist

Deleted my first three responses.

Look why do you insist on the purity of one side over another in a political discussion? Both D's & R's drive drunk, litter & cheat on their taxes. There is no purity.

125 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:02:29pm

re: #111 Plato

Wright Robertson Falwell...it's political expediency rather than belief...I think.

Do NOT compare Robertson to Wright.

it's retarded. They're not remotely in the same league.

126 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:03:10pm

re: #122 WindUpBird

Comparing Wright and Robertson is massively, cosmically bullshit false equivalency.

It's so cravenly dishonest it beggars belief.

Robertson was himself a presidential candidate.

Robertson had the BACKING of the White House. The ACCESS of the white house.

Robertson delivers massive political pull, and created the Christian Coalition.

Robertson associated and did business with with brutal, murderous dictators.

Robertson has his own bigoted television network.

Robertson has his own bigoted university.

Robertson is worth near as I can tell, a billion dollars.

What the hell? How can you even pretend to compare the two?

(but I know, a black preacher said something bad, so yeah they're exactly the same. WE UNDERSTAND.)

which, of course, is not the comparison in question. but it's easier to change the subject, isn't it?

127 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:03:50pm

re: #125 WindUpBird
don't get so wound up

128 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:04:22pm

re: #125 WindUpBird

Do NOT compare Robertson to Wright.

it's retarded. They're not remotely in the same league.

you're failing. impurity of message and success of empire are two different questions. when sitting in the actual church, it is the first question which is important.

129 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:04:46pm

re: #123 Reginald Perrin

correction to comment 116

bully pulpit

pimf

correction to correction

bullshit pulpit

130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:04:56pm

re: #112 ludwigvanquixote

Thanks.

131 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:06:01pm

Warning: Al Jazeera video, but created by independent producers and featuring Leonard Zeskind. Skip to 14 minutes in to see how the CCC is trying to mainstream White Christian Nationalism through the Tea parties. [ first segment covers the minutemen and outright neo Nazis in AZ ]

132 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:06:22pm

While we're on a churchly theme:

Virtual Choir

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:06:34pm

re: #124 brookly red

Look why do you insist on the purity of one side over another in a political discussion? Both D's & R's drive drunk, litter & cheat on their taxes. There is no purity.

You haven't understood a word I said.

I do not say that Democrats are 'pure'.

What I do say is: the single tea party activist quoted above claims that Democratic operatives tell him to his face that they hate him and America.

That is so laughably false, it's, well, laughable. No Democratic operative has told this guy he 'hates America'. That's a lie. Told by one guy. Because no one who works in mainstream politics says that, or gives some freak activist a payday quote like that.

How you're blowing this up into "Democrats GOOD, Republicans BAD" is beyond me. All I'm saying is, that guy's lying for clear political reasons.

His basic analysis is probably accurate though, as it relates to the parties' relationship to his movement.

Now, try to twist this into some sort of absolutist naive statement, feel free, but please READ this first.

134 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:06:44pm

My dear Lizards...
I have received word that Desertsage has lost his Son to a dirt bike accident Saturday.. He is heartbroken..
Say a prayer for him today.. He needs comfort from God..
Very tragic...

135 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:06:47pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist

Deleted my first three responses.

i don't know about brookly, but my apathy about that comment is that the commenter only took a backhand swipe at Dems while trashing Repubs. If you asked them to elaborate, i'd bet they couldn't.

backhand swipe ≠ politically motivated trashing, IMHO. *shrug*

136 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:07:00pm

re: #126 Aceofwhat?

which, of course, is not the comparison in question. but it's easier to change the subject, isn't it?

How is that a change of subject, exactly?

137 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:07:07pm

re: #112 ludwigvanquixote

Long term-The threat is counter cyclical. Counter cyclical to who is in power. Riots count as violence just like bombs. In my life I have seen both sides left and right opt for bat crazy rhetoric, used certain churches as bully pulpits and use violence. Today its the KKK and the Tea Party. But I may live long enough to see the cycle swing back again, with the right in power and a weather underground threat. 30 years could do it. Maybe ten.

My point is we call it out and throw water on the fire while it just smolders. Hence I am fine with the topic here, and all the assessments of threats you make. Believe me I agree the racists and the violent must get sidelined. Gently as possible, harshly as required.

138 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:07:24pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

My dear Lizards...
I have received word that Desertsage has lost his Son to a dirt bike accident Saturday.. He is heartbroken..
Say a prayer for him today.. He needs comfort from God..
Very tragic...

Thanks HH.

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:08:16pm

re: #135 Aceofwhat?

i don't know about brookly, but my apathy about that comment is that the commenter only took a backhand swipe at Dems while trashing Repubs. If you asked them to elaborate, i'd bet they couldn't.

backhand swipe ≠ politically motivated trashing, IMHO. *shrug*

All I said is, dude's lying.

140 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:08:33pm

re: #136 Obdicut

How is that a change of subject, exactly?

because the question is whether direct contact is an unsavory thing between pastor X and president Y.

the relative success of their empires outside of that question may or may not be an interesting topic, but it's outside of that question.

141 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:08:44pm

Both Robertson and Wright think God should damn or has damned America, and unless we do XYZ he'll damn us some more.

I'm going to come right out and say it:

If it's true, then Wright is closer to the reasons why than Robertson. I'd rather be damned for tolerating poverty and exploitation and racism than for not caring whether two chicks get have it off in a bar.

142 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:10:04pm

re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist

All I said is, dude's lying.

lying, yes. smear job, no. but yes, i didn't read that and believe for a second that there are actual Democratic operatives running around saying "i hate America!!11!!"

143 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:10:13pm

re: #126 Aceofwhat?

re: #51 brookly red

well there was a certain preacher who did say something about damning America... I can't recall his name.

That's changing the subject?


Nope, no it isn't. It is te same subject. You're wrong. There's a false equivalency that a small-scale preacher who was a tool for Obama to gain some legitimacy with black people in Chicago, is equivalent, is the same thing as a power-player on a cosmic scale like Robertson, who had access to the white house.

Here's the thing. We're discussing Tea Parties, and tea party organizers, and how they deliver the red meat. The organizers are organizing from a position of racism, from a position of demonizing, from a position of tribalism. That's their strategy.

Do you believe Obama was on board with Rev. Wright's extremist rhetoric, when it took coming though hudnreds of hours of archives to find what they guy said? Plenty of Republicans have engaged in the smear that Obama was sitting intently in the front row as Wright was saying his worst... and not one of them can point to anything remotely resembling evidence of that.

If Wright was, to this day, ginning up racist/bigoted resentment, if he was powerful like a Robertson, if he had access to Obama, I'd say they're equivalent. But they're not.

This "well, Robertson, Wright, they're all the same" schtick. It blurs the lines for Republicans who are happy to just forget just how evil, just how malevolent this Pat Robertson, this very influential conservative, actually is, and how entrenched he is with the evangelical right. But he's just the same as Wright? Wright associated and did business with dictators?

144 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:10:33pm

re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist

All I said is, dude's lying.

More likely he's gone hyperbolic over Wright and similar. Still a bad actor.

145 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:10:45pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

Oh how awful. My sincere condolences.

146 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:10:57pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

Will do HH. My respects and sympathies. Parents should not out live the kids like that. Its always tragic.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:11:15pm

re: #142 Aceofwhat?

lying, yes. smear job, no. but yes, i didn't read that and believe for a second that there are actual Democratic operatives running around saying "i hate America!!11!!"

Thank you! That's all I ask!

Snoopy dance.

148 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:11:40pm

re: #130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks.

For what my friend? But you are welcome anyway!

149 brookly red  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:11:55pm

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist

You haven't understood a word I said.

I do not say that Democrats are 'pure'.

What I do say is: the single tea party activist quoted above claims that Democratic operatives tell him to his face that they hate him and America.

That is so laughably false, it's, well, laughable. No Democratic operative has told this guy he 'hates America'. That's a lie. Told by one guy. Because no one who works in mainstream politics says that, or gives some freak activist a payday quote like that.

How you're blowing this up into "Democrats GOOD, Republicans BAD" is beyond me. All I'm saying is, that guy's lying for clear political reasons.

His basic analysis is probably accurate though, as it relates to the parties' relationship to his movement.

Now, try to twist this into some sort of absolutist naive statement, feel free, but please READ this first.

I up dinged your first statement as quite sensible, we are discussing large groups of people... there are good & bad & mostly bewildered people on every side. I just can not get on board with with the slander of millions of people because of the actions of a handful. I have said all I have to say on the matter.

150 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:11:58pm

re: #128 Aceofwhat?

you're failing. impurity of message and success of empire are two different questions. when sitting in the actual church, it is the first question which is important.

Prove to me that Obama was aware of any of Wright's racist rhetoric. Show me where Obama was leveraging bigotry for political ends. The way Robertson does. The way the southern strategy does. The way tea parties do. USING it. Sytemically.

This is massive tu quoque to distract from real, craven, organized-from-the-ground-up bigotry. I like you, but your tribalism is sho-o-o-o-owing. ;-)

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:12:38pm

re: #144 Decatur Deb

More likely he's gone hyperbolic over Wright and similar. Still a bad actor.

I like to be very clear about this, since 'Wright and similar' have turned into such a meme. Notice how his name pops up in a discussion like this. It's not OK with me to turn the Dems into the party that hates America in casual rhetoric.

152 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:12:47pm

re: #141 Cato the Elder

Both Robertson and Wright think God should damn or has damned America, and unless we do XYZ he'll damn us some more.

I'm going to come right out and say it:

If it's true, then Wright is closer to the reasons why than Robertson. I'd rather be damned for tolerating poverty and exploitation and racism than for not caring whether two chicks get have it off in a bar.

Damn straight! Justice, justice shall you pursue.

153 Gus  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:13:04pm

Council of Conservative Citizens - Sample of racism.

New York Times Celebrates adoption of white baby by black NBA star.

Why would a wealthy black celebrity go to all the trouble to adopt a white baby, ignoring the multitude of available babies of his own race?

Why would an adoption agency give a white baby to this bizarre black athlete, when thousands of white couples are desperately waiting in line for the opportunity? Obviously, his wealth has a lot to do with the decision.

Why is the life of a young baby girl being used for social experiment?

Make not that the image at this link of a black man holding a white baby is titled "grosspicture."

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:13:26pm

re: #149 brookly red

I up dinged your first statement as quite sensible, we are discussing large groups of people... there are good & bad & mostly bewildered people on every side. I just can not get on board with with the slander of millions of people because of the actions of a handful. I have said all I have to say on the matter.

I am not slandering millions. I am not talking about millions. I am talking about the schmuck quoted above.

You're still twisting what I'm saying.

155 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:13:29pm

re: #149 brookly red

I up dinged your first statement as quite sensible, we are discussing large groups of people... there are good & bad & mostly bewildered people on every side. I just can not get on board with with the slander of millions of people because of the actions of a handful. I have said all I have to say on the matter.

is your middle name "false equivalency?"

156 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:13:38pm

re: #143 WindUpBird

i wasn't talking about a cosmic scale. you are. ergo, you're changing the subject.

you're allowed to change the subject...not my blog...but "cosmic scale" says it all.

and don't for a second think that it's a false equivalence to equate the unChristian message you'd hear in either church. neither are preaching love, humility, tolerance, and service.

157 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:13:55pm

re: #140 Aceofwhat?


I'm sorry, I don't feel that that is the question at all. I think the power of the empire outside is the reason for the access, and it also represents influence on the political process from another angle. It's absolutely and directly relevant.

158 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:14:09pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

Thanks again, Hoops.

159 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:14:24pm

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

Thank you! That's all I ask!

Snoopy dance.

Can i be Woodstock?!

160 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:14:30pm

The CCC is a topic we can all agree on today.
re: #153 Gus 802

161 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:15:00pm

re: #158 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thanks again, Hoops.

I miss you here...Please don't be a stranger

162 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:15:30pm

re: #149 brookly red

I up dinged your first statement as quite sensible, we are discussing large groups of people... there are good & bad & mostly bewildered people on every side. I just can not get on board with with the slander of millions of people because of the actions of a handful. I have said all I have to say on the matter.

Dude, it is not a small handful of people trying to destroy science, remove evolution, remove any sensible talk on AGW, attempting to replace democracy with theocracy, playing to racial stereotypes, trumping fear of gays, plating to fear of Muslims to an insane extent, talking secession or waggling guns around.

It is not a small group at all.

That is the point.

163 CuriousLurker  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:16:04pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

My condolences and prayers go out to him & his family.

164 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:16:17pm

re: #157 Obdicut

I'm sorry, I don't feel that that is the question at all. I think the power of the empire outside is the reason for the access, and it also represents influence on the political process from another angle. It's absolutely and directly relevant.

It was my question, so yes. It is the question. How unsavory is pastor X's influence on President Y is my question.

"influence on the political process" is a different question, one you are free to ask. you are less free to misread my words...suck it, first amendment;)//

165 Gus  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:17:19pm

Council of Conservative Citizens

Founded: 1985
Headquarters: St. Louis

Leader: Gordon Lee Baum

Publication: The Citizens Informer (circulation of 20,000)

Background: Established by former activists in the segregationist White Citizens' Councils

Ideology: White supremacy, white separatism

Outreach: Mass mailings, prison newsletter

Approach: Advances its ideology by inflaming fears and resentments, among Southern whites particularly, with regard to black-on-white crime, non-white immigration, attacks on the public display of the Confederate flag, and other issues related to "traditional" Southern culture.

Connections: Several mainstream figures have spoken at or attended CCC meetings, including Senator Trent Lott; Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour; Mississippi state senators Gary Jackson and Dean Kirby; and several Mississippi state representatives. Former governors Guy Hunt of Alabama and Kirk Fordice of Mississippi also spoke at CCC meetings.

Extremist associations: David Duke, Mark Cotterill, Chris Temple, Jared Taylor, Paul Fromm

More at link.

166 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:17:27pm

re: #161 HoosierHoops

Just very damn busy, and ... doing contracting ... not working a fixed schedule.

/Saw someone's backside going out the door last Tuesday, didn't realize until I tried to "take a seat" later that it was mine ... :D

167 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:17:58pm

re: #143 WindUpBird

re: #51 brookly red

. . .
This "well, Robertson, Wright, they're all the same" schtick. It blurs the lines for Republicans who are happy to just forget just how evil, just how malevolent this Pat Robertson, this very influential conservative, actually is, and how entrenched he is with the evangelical right. But he's just the same as Wright? Wright associated and did business with dictators?

They're both loony and distasteful, one on each side of the political spectrum, and for different reasons.

Which is as far as my pea-brain wants to take it.

I'm not sure, for me, whether it's particularly productive to get in a tit-for-tat shouting match over who's worse, with somebody trying to "win" the argument to prove, what? That the "other" side has a greater degree of awfulness?

They're both awful.

168 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:18:00pm

re: #164 Aceofwhat?

It was my question, so yes. It is the question. How unsavory is pastor X's influence on President Y is my question.

Okay. Then it's still relevant, because how unsavory the influence is depends on what the pastor is like, and the other actions of the pastor are still directly relevant.

How else are we supposed to judge whether or not that pastor's influence is unsavory or not, other than the rest of the actions of that pastor?

169 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:18:14pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

I like to be very clear about this, since 'Wright and similar' have turned into such a meme. Notice how his name pops up in a discussion like this. It's not OK with me to turn the Dems into the party that hates America in casual rhetoric.

They are baggage we are stuck with. I think it's a pretty light load, on the whole.

170 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:19:00pm

Back to the subject at hand:

Anyone care to speculate in detail just what the CCC means or meant by "racial integrity"?

Just sort of, you know, umm, wondering.

171 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:19:00pm

re: #165 Gus 802

There's more about them if you look up "blackhawk" meetings, and it's somewhat important to know that they are very on board with the Political Cesspool guy.

172 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:19:18pm

re: #150 WindUpBird

Prove to me that Obama was aware of any of Wright's racist rhetoric. Show me where Obama was leveraging bigotry for political ends. The way Robertson does. The way the southern strategy does. The way tea parties do. USING it. Sytemically.

This is massive tu quoque to distract from real, craven, organized-from-the-ground-up bigotry. I like you, but your tribalism is sho-o-o-o-owing. ;-)

heh.

your first two sentences were right on topic. the rest is changing the subject.

but to address the part that was on topic...i am satisfied that Obama understands that Wright is not a helpful addition to our national dialogue. neither did i believe that pres. Bush made policy decisions based on Robertson's influence. so i feel that i'm consistently sanguine about both presidents in this narrow regard.

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:19:22pm

re: #167 reine.de.tout

They're both loony and distasteful, one on each side of the political spectrum, and for different reasons.

Which is as far as my pea-brain wants to take it.

I'm not sure, for me, whether it's particularly productive to get in a tit-for-tat shouting match over who's worse, with somebody trying to "win" the argument to prove, what? That the "other" side has a greater degree of awfulness?

They're both awful.

I think that's all entirely true--except that I resent it that Wright keeps coming up endlessly, and that people are so resistant to putting him in any kind of context--namely, all the other screaming preachers in American politics.

174 swamprat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:19:37pm

re: #150 WindUpBird


Good lord! How many years was he in that church? If he didn't know, that was ignorance of Bushian proportions. The best take I can muster, is that he attended to further his career. I also do not know what the other choices were. I am being as polite as I can.

175 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:19:55pm

re: #143 WindUpBird
Your point is well taken. One is big time the other is small time. One has years of influence, the other was a flash in the pan... out of the picture for now.

They both represent constituencies and are figure heads. The only comparison is that they represent thought. To put one down is to put down his followers too. The few and the many.

176 Gus  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:20:20pm

re: #170 Cato the Elder

Back to the subject at hand:

Anyone care to speculate in detail just what the CCC means or meant by "racial integrity"?

Just sort of, you know, umm, wondering.

Segregation would be one meaning for the CCC.

177 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:20:27pm

re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that's all entirely true--except that I resent it that Wright keeps coming up endlessly, and that people are so resistant to putting him in any kind of context--namely, all the other screaming preachers in American politics.

And I can perfectly well understand that, makes sense to me.

Been on the other side of it, myself, at times.

178 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:20:44pm

re: #167 reine.de.tout

I think that it is very necessary to point out that Robertson has had real influence on American politics on a large scale, wheres Wright has not.

It's not just about how loony they are, but how successful they are, how influential they really are. Cynthia McKinney is just as crazy as Palin or Paul-- but she's gone from the Democrats and wields almost no influence on the 'left' at all.

Likewise, Wright is completely toxic to Democrats right now, but cozying up with the religious right is still what the GOP is doing.

179 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:20:52pm

re: #170 Cato the Elder

Back to the subject at hand:

Anyone care to speculate in detail just what the CCC means or meant by "racial integrity"?

Just sort of, you know, umm, wondering.

I don't have to speculate, I can see them speaking directly to that question in the video I posted above. They mean white+christian+english speaking. Period, no substitutes accepted.

180 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:21:02pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

I like to be very clear about this, since 'Wright and similar' have turned into such a meme. Notice how his name pops up in a discussion like this. It's not OK with me to turn the Dems into the party that hates America in casual rhetoric.

Wright shows up like ACORN shows up. Like Robert Byrd shows up. it's like a killing word from Dune.

it's a distraction, a meme from the facts of the day, from the realities of right now. And not to invoke Charles, but it's becoming REAL disrespectful to the blog to bust out Wright every time there's a post about organized, systemic, out-in-the-open racism in the tea parties.


Let's put it this way: I don't go to protests. I DO go to bars, to concerts, to clubs, to venues, to art shows, etc. If I saw ANYTHING that resembled a systemic racist motivation or a racist message for a show or a venue I was going to? I would leave, that instant. Pantera's singer did that once, Phil Anselmo. (I think this was post-Pantera) He went on a racist tirade in the middle of a show. And people stayed for it! Not me.

These "good" people I keep hearing about in tea parties? These honest hard working old-fashioned real Americans that tolerate the N**** word being waved around on signs in their midst? Not so sure they're good. They're frightened, and paranoid, and that trumps "good." They may not be KKK evil, but they are weak. Weak and afraid to leave, afraid to abandon "their' people.

Weak minds, weak people who need strong tribalism to make up for their weakness. They'll tolerate the N**** word, they'll tolerate confedarate flags, and racist rhetoric, and psychotic accusations that wouldn't fly in a halfway house for schizophrenics. Why? because these are still their people. These are their tribe, warts and all. And that's weakness.

181 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:21:12pm

re: #165 Gus 802

Council of Conservative Citizens

More at link.

There was an earlier movement, probably related, the "Concerned Citizens' Councils". They were just the Klan out of uniform.

182 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:21:27pm

re: #178 Obdicut

I think that it is very necessary to point out that Robertson has had real influence on American politics on a large scale, wheres Wright has not.

It's not just about how loony they are, but how successful they are, how influential they really are. Cynthia McKinney is just as crazy as Palin or Paul-- but she's gone from the Democrats and wields almost no influence on the 'left' at all.

Likewise, Wright is completely toxic to Democrats right now, but cozying up with the religious right is still what the GOP is doing.

Good point.

I've got to run though.
Just when things are getting interesting.

183 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:22:00pm

re: #178 Obdicut

I think that it is very necessary to point out that Robertson has had real influence on American politics on a large scale, wheres Wright has not.

It's not just about how loony they are, but how successful they are, how influential they really are. Cynthia McKinney is just as crazy as Palin or Paul-- but she's gone from the Democrats and wields almost no influence on the 'left' at all.

Likewise, Wright is completely toxic to Democrats right now, but cozying up with the religious right is still what the GOP is doing.

I'm getting out of this thread, because I can feel myself getting really pissed off. Fight the good fight ;-)

184 Gus  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:22:11pm

re: #181 Decatur Deb

There was an earlier movement, probably related, the "Concerned Citizens' Councils". They were just the Klan out of uniform.

Yes. CCC stands for Country Club Clan.

185 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:23:19pm

re: #183 WindUpBird

Heh. I have a mound of dishes to do, so I'm gone in a minute as well. But to back up what you're saying:

If I'm playing an online game and says "faggot" or a racial slur or anything like that, I vote to kick them. And if the vote doesn't succeed, I leave.

This means i generally only play on adminned and otherwise cool servers.

186 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:23:26pm

re: #168 Obdicut

Okay. Then it's still relevant, because how unsavory the influence is depends on what the pastor is like, and the other actions of the pastor are still directly relevant.

How else are we supposed to judge whether or not that pastor's influence is unsavory or not, other than the rest of the actions of that pastor?

Oh. For me, 'the rest of the actions' ≠ 'the success of the empire'. I find both pastors to be quite unChristian. I believe that neither had a worrisome direct impact on a President. I do enjoy poking anyone who thinks that Robertson is just a harmless old guy or who thinks that Wright is just a fiery preacher. Hopefully i've been successfully equivalent in that regard.

187 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:23:39pm

Okay about Pat Robertson and his White House access-Serious question-What policies or decisions did he successfully alter via all this influence? What demonstrable effect did he have with this access?

188 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:23:57pm

In the video I posted upthread you can see Council of Conservative Citizen leaders and tea party organizers speak for themselves if you start about fourteen minutes in.

189 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:24:46pm

re: #186 Aceofwhat?

I believe that neither had a worrisome direct impact on a President.

How on earth do you convince yourself that Robertson hasn't had influence?

Why did Bush appoint so many people that went to Regent's?

190 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:25:08pm

re: #187 Rightwingconspirator

What demonstrable effect did he have with this access?

The hiring of many, many, many people who attended his 'university'.

191 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:25:42pm

re: #187 Rightwingconspirator

That's going to be an unknown, but that Schiavo bullshit fiasco did not happen in a vacuum.

192 HappyWarrior  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:25:46pm

re: #189 Obdicut

How on earth do you convince yourself that Robertson hasn't had influence?

Why did Bush appoint so many people that went to Regent's?

Heck my own governor is a Regent guy.

193 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:26:29pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

It's not OK with me to turn the Dems into the party that hates America in casual rhetoric.

Agree completely. Dems don't hate America and Repubs don't hate poor people. We have policy disagreements.

194 prairiefire  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:27:06pm

re: #189 Obdicut

The light weight Regent's scholars royally screwed up the success of the Bush DOJ.

195 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:27:18pm

re: #192 HappyWarrior

Where you?

196 swamprat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:27:37pm

re: #170 Cato the Elder

Back to the subject at hand:

Anyone care to speculate in detail just what the CCC means or meant by "racial integrity"?

Just sort of, you know, umm, wondering.

Doubt they mean that all races should be honest, or that all races should be honest about their race.
Probably a confession of consanguinity.

197 Reginald Perrin  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:27:54pm

re: #186 Aceofwhat?

I find both pastors to be quite unChristian.

What do you really know about Rev Wright, aside from the out of context quotes you have read on the internet, that allows you to judge him as being "unchristian"?

198 allegro  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:27:57pm

re: #187 Rightwingconspirator

Okay about Pat Robertson and his White House access-Serious question-What policies or decisions did he successfully alter via all this influence? What demonstrable effect did he have with this access?

Here's one...

But even in its darker days, Regent has had no better friend than the Bush administration. Graduates of the law school have been among the most influential of the more than 150 Regent University alumni hired to federal government positions since President Bush took office in 2001, according to a university website.
199 HappyWarrior  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:28:26pm

re: #195 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Where you?


Fairfax.

200 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:28:41pm

terrible news about Sage's boy....a real heartbreaker, I can't begin to imagine....I sure hope he and his get through it somehow

201 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:29:02pm

re: #187 Rightwingconspirator

Okay about Pat Robertson and his White House access-Serious question-What policies or decisions did he successfully alter via all this influence? What demonstrable effect did he have with this access?

His religious right constellation was repaid by establishment of the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives. Big bucks there.

202 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:29:28pm

re: #180 WindUpBird
'...but it's becoming REAL disrespectful to the blog to bust out Wright every time there's a post about organized, systemic, out-in-the-open racism in the tea parties.'

Actually I was feeling that it was a little disrespectful to the progress Martin Luther King Jr. brought about to label too many people as racists based on the physical evidence at the tea parties which is there but whose ubiquitousness is debated.

203 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:29:36pm

re: #193 Aceofwhat?

Agree completely. Dems don't hate America and Repubs don't hate poor people. We have policy disagreements.

If the GOP doesn't hate poor people, why the glee over the dismantling of ACORN?

The God of many Republicans seems to hate poor people. And he hates people who try to help poor people with a poisonous purple passion.

Or so it appears to this outside observer.

204 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:30:28pm

re: #202 Plato

What the hell are you talking about?

Can you try restating that in a way that doesn't sound quite as nutty?

205 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:30:33pm

re: #196 swamprat

Doubt they mean that all races should be honest, or that all races should be honest about their race.
Probably a confession of consanguinity.

it's a confession of racism....integrity means purity imo

206 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:31:05pm

re: #193 Aceofwhat?

Agree completely. Dems don't hate America and Repubs don't hate poor people. We have policy disagreements.

This is true--but schmuck above didn't say that Republicans told him they hated poor people!!

207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:31:07pm

re: #199 HappyWarrior

Oh, okay. Roanoke.

A Regent University Law School graduate screwed me to a wall once. And I mean, with purpose, without ethics, totally screwed me to the wall over a real estate deal.

It was good for him, was absolutely financially devastating to me.

208 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:31:11pm

re: #21 Obdicut
I don't think so.

209 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:31:24pm

re: #190 Obdicut

re: #201 Decatur Deb

re: #198 allegro

re: #191 Thanos

Big thanks to you all, I had never bothered to look into any of this.

210 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:31:35pm

re: #208 Plato

I didn't think so, either.

211 HappyWarrior  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:31:56pm

re: #207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, okay. Roanoke.

A Regent University Law School graduate screwed me to a wall once. And I mean, with purpose, without ethics, totally screwed me to the wall over a real estate deal.

It was good for him, was absolutely financially devastating to me.

Sucks man. Roanoke though eh, had a great aunt who lived down that way. Was my grandfather's only family member I ever met.

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:32:12pm

re: #202 Plato

'...but it's becoming REAL disrespectful to the blog to bust out Wright every time there's a post about organized, systemic, out-in-the-open racism in the tea parties.'

Actually I was feeling that it was a little disrespectful to the progress Martin Luther King Jr. brought about to label too many people as racists based on the physical evidence at the tea parties which is there but whose ubiquitousness is debated.

Do we really need to bring Dr. King into this?

213 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:32:18pm

re: #209 Rightwingconspirator

No problem. I have a habit of forgetting that not everyone knows this stuff off the back of their head. Apologies if my reply was terse or impolite-sounding.

214 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:32:39pm

re: #204 Obdicut

What the hell are you talking about?

Can you try restating that in a way that doesn't sound quite as nutty?

My mouth is still hanging open.

215 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:32:54pm

re: #189 Obdicut

How on earth do you convince yourself that Robertson hasn't had influence?

Why did Bush appoint so many people that went to Regent's?

Dude, they don't even like each other. Bush wasn't taking advice from Pat Robertson...trust me.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

216 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:33:14pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

My dear Lizards...
I have received word that Desertsage has lost his Son to a dirt bike accident Saturday.. He is heartbroken..
Say a prayer for him today.. He needs comfort from God..
Very tragic...

Very sorry to hear that. Tragic indeed.

217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:33:21pm

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

How about Aunt Bea?.... I could work her into the conversation if you give me a while to think about it.

218 swamprat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:33:22pm

re: #205 albusteve

it's a confession of racism...integrity means purity imo

Actually, I got that.

219 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:34:12pm

re: #215 Aceofwhat?

Can you try to answer the question? Given that earlier you were castigating WindUpBird from going 'off-topic' on your question, it's pretty odd that you'd avoid a direct question.

Can you explain why there were so many appointees from Regents into the Bush administration?

220 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:34:59pm

re: #213 Obdicut

None needed. Passion is good.

221 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:35:10pm

re: #197 Reginald Perrin

What do you really know about Rev Wright, aside from the out of context quotes you have read on the internet, that allows you to judge him as being "unchristian"?

seriously? is this a serious question?

222 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:35:41pm

re: #209 Rightwingconspirator

re: #201 Decatur Deb

re: #198 allegro

re: #191 Thanos

Big thanks to you all, I had never bothered to look into any of this.

It was all fairly low-key. I would add the disastrous policies blocking Fed money for family planning o/seas.

223 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:36:34pm

I'll give the Tea Party people props for 1) Someone complained to the organizers 2) The organizers took the complaint seriously and took action.

If right wing bloggers and pundits encouraged this then the accusations and incidents of racism at Tea Parties would be greatly diminished.

224 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:37:11pm

re: #223 Killgore Trout

Not holding my breath!

225 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:37:17pm

re: #219 Obdicut

Can you try to answer the question? Given that earlier you were castigating WindUpBird from going 'off-topic' on your question, it's pretty odd that you'd avoid a direct question.

Can you explain why there were so many appointees from Regents into the Bush administration?

no, they were lightweights. i think that he could have done better...but their appointments were not a result of Pat Robertson whispering in GWB's ear, nor a result of GWB sitting in Robertson's pews.

nor is Obama acting upon any of the crazy that i'm sure he rolled his eyes at in Wright's church.

that is the topic.

226 swamprat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:37:38pm

re: #204 Obdicut

What the hell are you talking about?

Can you try restating that in a way that doesn't sound quite as nutty?

Obdicut: Some nuts don't make them ALL nuts.

WindUpBird: The fact that the sane ones don't loudly object to the nuts makes them weak, ignorant and tribalistic.


swamprat: Time for tea.

227 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:37:58pm

re: #225 Aceofwhat?

Again, can you answer the question:

Can you explain why there were so many appointees from Regents into the Bush administration?

You have asserted that it wasn't a result of Robertson 'whispering in GWB's ear'. So, why was it?

228 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:38:19pm

re: #203 Cato the Elder

the Church of Supply Side NRA Jesus

/

229 Reginald Perrin  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:38:34pm

re: #221 Aceofwhat?

Yes it was serious question, otherwise I wouldn't have wasted time typing it without marking it as snark.

230 swamprat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:41:25pm

re: #226 swamprat
re: #204 Obdicut

What the hell are you talking about?

Can you try restating that in a way that doesn't sound quite as nutty?

CORRECTION:
Obdicut Plato: Some nuts don't make them ALL nuts.

WindUpBird: The fact that the sane ones don't loudly object to the nuts makes them weak, ignorant and tribalistic.

231 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:41:42pm

Sanity Break, just seems apropo...

232 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:42:25pm

re: #231 Rightwingconspirator

Nice one.

I just dsicovered Devon Rex-es.

233 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:42:32pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

My dear Lizards...
I have received word that Desertsage has lost his Son to a dirt bike accident Saturday.. He is heartbroken..
Say a prayer for him today.. He needs comfort from God..
Very tragic...

I am very sorry to see this. Prayers for the family.

234 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:44:51pm

re: #227 Obdicut

Again, can you answer the question:

Can you explain why there were so many appointees from Regents into the Bush administration?

You have asserted that it wasn't a result of Robertson 'whispering in GWB's ear'. So, why was it?

because GWB liked that brand of thinking. conservative lawyers are hard to come by, IIRC.

it's my understanding that there is no love lost between Robertson and GWB. if we don't think Obama's actual pastor is whispering, let's not pretend that a pastor that GWB doesn't like was whispering...unless i grossly misunderstand their relationship.

235 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:45:34pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

My dear Lizards...
I have received word that Desertsage has lost his Son to a dirt bike accident Saturday.. He is heartbroken..
Say a prayer for him today.. He needs comfort from God..
Very tragic...

Thanks for letting us know, my sympathies and thoughts are with him.

236 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:47:10pm

re: #225 Aceofwhat?

no, they were lightweights. i think that he could have done better...but their appointments were not a result of Pat Robertson whispering in GWB's ear, nor a result of GWB sitting in Robertson's pews.

nor is Obama acting upon any of the crazy that i'm sure he rolled his eyes at in Wright's church.

that is the topic.

Frankly, I'm astonished at your naivety here.

Politics is a game of money and access.

If I pay money, I expect something for it. The more money I pay, the more I expect. Don't you? And if I don't get it, I stop writing checks.

So why on earth would Robertson keep paying and paying and paying if he weren't getting what he expected?

Hell, a mafia don who buys a local judge wouldn't put up with that, and I'm sure you'll agree that Robertson is smarter than one of those guys.

237 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:47:33pm

re: #47 swamprat
There is a debate going on in the country. Many in the media and on this site say all Republicans, all tea partiers, all Limbaugh fans are RACISTS.

OK. We can debate that. But I remember the 60's and the changes that happened and the influence a great man had and how things changed. I remember the 4 students who were killed. I remember the schools in Arkansas and Mississippi.

If the country has gone 180 and returned to the past, it would be sad to think the good changes are lost and the country has truely reverted. Maybe we've just veered off a little for a few and hopefully a few.

238 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:47:55pm

re: #229 Reginald Perrin

Yes it was serious question, otherwise I wouldn't have wasted time typing it without marking it as snark.

Hookay. It's no secret in Chicago that he preaches a very divisive message, especially along racial lines. Divisive = unchristian. Period.

239 prairiefire  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:48:25pm

re: #232 Obdicut

WUB just got two of them. They look great.

240 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:48:36pm

Glenn Reynolds proudly links to this tea party picture today....
Global Warming Is a Scam

Another one from the same tea party: The IRS is Obama's KGB

241 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:50:24pm

re: #223 Killgore Trout

I'll give the Tea Party people props for 1) Someone complained to the organizers 2) The organizers took the complaint seriously and took action.

If right wing bloggers and pundits encouraged this then the accusations and incidents of racism at Tea Parties would be greatly diminished.

I think quite a few Tea Party participants are starting to have second thoughts, and more importantly, starting to take action and distance themselves from the fringe kooks.

*just based on a few anecdotal observations, and the tone of some group emails I receive.

242 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:50:52pm

re: #240 Killgore Trout

Glenn Reynolds proudly links to this tea party picture today...
Global Warming Is a Scam

Another one from the same tea party: The IRS is Obama's KGB

Wait, what?

So that would make Bush's IRS the CIA?

So confusing.

243 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:51:00pm

re: #154 SanFranciscoZionist

I am not slandering millions. I am not talking about millions. I am talking about the schmuck quoted above.

You're still twisting what I'm saying.

Thinking again about the ANSWER demo above, I realize that I had no real problem with the existence of the whole left spectrum at the event. (Enjoyed talking with the Kucinich Kids.) It was the fact that the crazy Nork girl was given the event microphone that sent us away. If the TP's let the insane or hateful hold center stage, they own them.

244 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:51:24pm

re: #236 Cato the Elder

Frankly, I'm astonished at your naivety here.

Politics is a game of money and access.

If I pay money, I expect something for it. The more money I pay, the more I expect. Don't you? And if I don't get it, I stop writing checks.

So why on earth would Robertson keep paying and paying and paying if he weren't getting what he expected?

Hell, a mafia don who buys a local judge wouldn't put up with that, and I'm sure you'll agree that Robertson is smarter than one of those guys.

perhaps there are contributions that i'm not aware of? i'm not sure what you're talking about...

245 bratwurst  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:52:22pm

re: #51 brookly red

well there was a certain preacher who did say something about damning America... I can't recall his name.

Well I remember two white preachers on TV the week after 9/11 saying that the Big G was punishing America for homosexuality and feminism. Does that help?

246 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:52:45pm

re: #244 Aceofwhat?

perhaps there are contributions that i'm not aware of? i'm not sure what you're talking about...

Oh give me a break.

247 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:53:11pm

re: #234 Aceofwhat?

because GWB liked that brand of thinking. conservative lawyers are hard to come by, IIRC.

Why do you think that conservative lawyers are hard to come by? I've never heard that.

You are right that GWB like that brand of thinking-- the brand of thinking exemplified by Pat Robertson's university. That's why he selected the dean of the government school there to be his HR director.

On one side of evidence, we have the huge numbers of regents people hired under Bush.

On the other hand, we have your understanding that they didn't personally like each other-- which, in politics, has pretty much nothing to do with anything.

248 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:53:26pm

Congrats to big lefty Phil Mickelson

249 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:53:38pm

re: #246 Cato the Elder

Oh give me a break.

i'm dead serious. i don't want to be caught defending Robertson...i just don't think he had his hand up GWB's back.

help me out.

250 prairiefire  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:54:26pm

re: #248 wozzablog

Is he a big lefty?

My husband is glad he won. Number 3.

251 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:54:27pm

re: #247 Obdicut

see the current president and secretary of state..................

:-)

252 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:54:37pm

For those who want to garden but don't have the space here a few indoor tips.....
Micro-veg - The Edible Garden - BBC Two

You can also do this same technique with peas. They sprout very quickly and the pea tendrils are great for soups, salads or stir fry.

Alys and the Avocado Plant

If you are lucky enough to be in the UK you can watch her show: The Edible Garden on BBC2.

253 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:55:00pm

re: #250 prairiefire

Is he a big lefty?

My husband is glad he won. Number 3.

he's left-handed...

254 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:55:18pm

re: #250 prairiefire

he's a left hander, one of few on tour - i also play left handed, though not nearly as well ;-p

255 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:56:51pm

re: #247 Obdicut

On one side of evidence, we have the huge numbers of regents people hired under Bush.

On the other hand, we have your understanding that they didn't personally like each other-- which, in politics, has pretty much nothing to do with anything.

When talking about nefarious pastors whispering in presidents' ears, whether they actually spend any time together or enjoy each others' company has pretty much everything to do with the conversation. Stay on target...

256 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:56:56pm

re: #238 Aceofwhat?

Hookay. It's no secret in Chicago that he preaches a very divisive message, especially along racial lines. Divisive = unchristian. Period.

Ace, iirc - he preaches black liberation theology.

257 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:57:43pm

re: #251 wozzablog

see the current president and secretary of state...

:-)

exactly! nobody is accusing Obama of being Hilliary's shadowpuppet.

thanks for the unintentional assist-

258 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:57:57pm

re: #237 Plato

There is a debate going on in the country. Many in the media and on this site say all Republicans, all tea partiers, all Limbaugh fans are RACISTS.


You know damn well that no one says all. It pains you to see examples given, but it is your own processing that makes you take it as an indictment against all.

259 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:58:09pm

re: #241 Racer X

I think quite a few Tea Party participants are starting to have second thoughts, and more importantly, starting to take action and distance themselves from the fringe kooks.

*just based on a few anecdotal observations, and the tone of some group emails I receive.

I agree, particularly judging from the turnout shown in yesterday's video from Baton Rouge.

The first one was held there, and those steps were covered with people.

260 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:58:56pm

re: #75 Stanley Sea

actually that's good to hear!

261 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:59:18pm

re: #252 Killgore Trout

For those who want to garden but don't have the space here a few indoor tips...
Micro-veg - The Edible Garden - BBC Two

[Video]If you are lucky enough to be in the UK you can watch her show: The Edible Garden on BBC2.

Grabbing it now for the blog.

262 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:59:43pm

re: #256 reine.de.tout

re: #238 Aceofwhat?

re: #229 Reginald Perrin

No good christian says "god damn" anyone except by mistake and in deep overwhelming anger. I would venture that applies to all of the faithful and all the thoughtful atheists too. It's just such a harsh thought. No good person wishes hell on a nation.

263 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 3:59:57pm

re: #254 wozzablog

he's a left hander, one of few on tour - i also play left handed, though not nearly as well ;-p

I'm a southpaw..But I play Right handed better
Did you see the tears flow when he hugged his sick wife Amy?
Did you see that Tiger? You fuck..

264 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:00:16pm

re: #257 Aceofwhat?

heh.

um, no.

they don't like each other - but they work towards common goals.

265 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:00:34pm

re: #259 reine.de.tout

We'll see. I thought the whole thing would have died odd by now. April 15th is supposed to be the next big Tea Party so we'll see how that goes. Even for the last Healtcare rally they only got a few thousand to show up for that so I'm not expecting much.

266 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:00:37pm

re: #262 Rightwingconspirator

re: #238 Aceofwhat?

re: #229 Reginald Perrin

No good christian says "god damn" anyone except by mistake and in deep overwhelming anger. I would venture that applies to all of the faithful and all the thoughtful atheists too. It's just such a harsh thought. No good person wishes hell on a nation.

Ya never met my sweet Grandma.

267 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:00:58pm

"States' Rights"

At one point in the movie Gettysburg, Col. Chamberlain's brother asks a group of bedraggled Confederate prisoners why they are fighting.
One of them responds, "We're fightin' for our rats."
Chamberlain says, "Your what?"
The prisoner repeats, "Our rats" and Chamberlain finally realizes he means their "rights."
I think of this scene every time I hear a neo-confederate secesh fantasist idiot going on about "states' rights."

268 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:01:28pm

re: #261 reine.de.tout

Grabbing it now for the blog.

Thanks. She's really cute too. The way she pronounces "compost" just cracks me up.

269 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:01:35pm

re: #248 wozzablog

Congrats to big lefty Phil Mickelson

It was a good final round, though I thought the dick who interviewed Tiger after his round asked some stupid questions. "You seemed angry after your first few holes...I thought you were going to control that." Tiger was pretty good about it though, saying, "I'm not going to be happy when I make a bad shot. That just doesn't make sense."

270 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:01:38pm

re: #256 reine.de.tout

Ace, iirc - he preaches black liberation theology.

Indeed. It can be done in a manner to encourage others that God identifies with their plight in a special way, but it can also be done in a manner that rails against "oppressors". The former is a Christian sentiment, the latter is not. Railing against gays, liberals, blacks, whites, etc...it's all headed in the wrong direction.

271 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:01:47pm

"Savages rule racist Israel"

Guess who said that.

272 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:02:32pm

re: #262 Rightwingconspirator

It was deep overwhelming anger.

The entire clip online shows he was targetting the people who use "god bless america" as meaningless punctuation with no sense of the baggage the nation holds against Gods laws.

Slavery, the treatment of native americans, grinding institutionalised poverty - etc

273 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:02:35pm

re: #255 Aceofwhat?

When talking about nefarious pastors whispering in presidents' ears, whether they actually spend any time together or enjoy each others' company has pretty much everything to do with the conversation. Stay on target...

I'm on target, Ace, and continually implying that I'm going off topic is getting pretty irritating.

"Whispering in ears" is a metaphor, not a description of physical reality. It's a metaphor for getting things that you want from that person, and influencing them.

274 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:03:29pm

re: #257 Aceofwhat?

Who has said that Bush is Robertson's 'shaddowpuppet' please? Or even "puppet"?

275 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:04:46pm

re: #263 HoosierHoops

I'm a southpaw..But I play Right handed better
Did you see the tears flow when he hugged his sick wife Amy?
Did you see that Tiger? You fuck..

I'm left handed and play righty, although it has been a few years. I should get out and play - I might be good again!

276 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:04:47pm

re: #263 HoosierHoops

I'm a southpaw..But I play Right handed better
Did you see the tears flow when he hugged his sick wife Amy?
Did you see that Tiger? You fuck..


Tiger, BAH/

the guy who introduced him to his wife came out and apologised to his wife on the teevee.

I don't know anyone on tour who actually likes Tiger.


i love Phil, he's a stand up guy.

277 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:05:50pm

OT but important:

Apparently this has been an issue for some time, however, the GF just heard about it and she just told me, and I just heard about it. After a little digging around, I found that there were many inflated stories making the rounds of chain e-mails. Interspersed though was some truth as well.

There is this stuff called cocoa mulch made from the husks and hulls of cocoa beans. Apparently if you are a gardener, there are some reasons you might like this mulch over other kinds. And to be fair, after I looked into this a bit, if I were a gardener, I would probably like the stuff too. However, if you are a pet owner, this is a very dangerous deal.

For those who do not know this, cocoa contains theobromide, a caffeine like molecule, which is severely poisonous and potentially fatal to dogs and cats. It is a particular problem for dogs, since they, like us, particularly like the smell of chocolate.

The mulch is sold all over.

[Link: www.google.com...]

The chain mails will make it sound like puppies are keeling over left and right in America from this. That is an exaggeration but not a fabrication. There are documented cases of dog deaths from this and even if the "only" outcome of eating the mulch is that your dog gets fantastically sick and only has tremors, seizures and diarrhea, it is definitely something to keep your pet away from.

[Link: veterinaryteam.dvm360.com...]

So, how do you tell if your buddy is playing in cocoa mulch? Well the good news is that the stuff smells like chocolate. That smell fades over time, but it also has a distinctive look to it. So rule 1 which is a good rule anyway, is on't let your pup eat mulch when you walk him, and rule 2, especially is the stuff looks like crushed beans and smells of chocolate.

278 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:06:30pm

re: #268 Killgore Trout

Thanks. She's really cute too. The way she pronounces "compost" just cracks me up.

I bought a barrel composter yesterday. It was cheap, and Made in America, so I bought it. I'm now in the dirt making business!

279 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:07:06pm

re: #275 Racer X

i'm a "right hander" in everything but golf (thanks to a great old coach), but when i was in kindergarden (uk equivalent) i always picked up a pen with my left hand - the teacher ALWAYS got me to switch to my right.

as a result my hand writing sux and i'm completely cack handed.

280 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:07:07pm

Meanwhile over at the Shrieking Harpie's she's obfuscating the Nazi white supremacist funeral by attacking the black nationalist who's most outspoken and outrageous atm. Hard to obscure the fact that Terreblanche was a fascist / nazi / white supremacist however.

Also note that the Triskele flag that was recently seen at the TN teaparty is prominent at the funeral.

281 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:07:13pm

re: #273 Obdicut

I'm on target, Ace, and continually implying that I'm going off topic is getting pretty irritating.

"Whispering in ears" is a metaphor, not a description of physical reality. It's a metaphor for getting things that you want from that person, and influencing them.

No, i have literally been talking about, or trying to, the personal influence of pastor X on president Y, as i have said multiple times.

Personal influence.

As in, the ability to persuade President Y to pursue a course of action because pastor X believes it is the right thing to do, and President Y might not have otherwise agreed.

Neither of these characters had a personal influence on either of these presidents, unless i am naive to some large monetary quid pro quo that may have occurred with Robertson. Cato implied something above that went right over my head...if there is more to this story, i'm all ears.

282 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:07:47pm

re: #254 wozzablog

he's a left hander, one of few on tour - i also play left handed, though not nearly as well ;-p

I can't play at all. :D

The level of skill these guys have is mind boggling.

283 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:08:01pm

re: #277 ludwigvanquixote

OT but important:

Apparently this has been an issue for some time, however, the GF just heard about it and she just told me, and I just heard about it. After a little digging around, I found that there were many inflated stories making the rounds of chain e-mails. Interspersed though was some truth as well.

There is this stuff called cocoa mulch made from the husks and hulls of cocoa beans. Apparently if you are a gardener, there are some reasons you might like this mulch over other kinds. And to be fair, after I looked into this a bit, if I were a gardener, I would probably like the stuff too. However, if you are a pet owner, this is a very dangerous deal.

For those who do not know this, cocoa contains theobromide, a caffeine like molecule, which is severely poisonous and potentially fatal to dogs and cats. It is a particular problem for dogs, since they, like us, particularly like the smell of chocolate.

The mulch is sold all over.

[Link: www.google.com...]

The chain mails will make it sound like puppies are keeling over left and right in America from this. That is an exaggeration but not a fabrication. There are documented cases of dog deaths from this and even if the "only" outcome of eating the mulch is that your dog gets fantastically sick and only has tremors, seizures and diarrhea, it is definitely something to keep your pet away from.

[Link: veterinaryteam.dvm360.com...]

So, how do you tell if your buddy is playing in cocoa mulch? Well the good news is that the stuff smells like chocolate. That smell fades over time, but it also has a distinctive look to it. So rule 1 which is a good rule anyway, is on't let your pup eat mulch when you walk him, and rule 2, especially is the stuff looks like crushed beans and smells of chocolate.

The neighbors with the pit bulls pulled up stakes and moved out, otherwise I would buy sacks of this stuff to mulch my tomato plants.

284 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:08:32pm

re: #278 Racer X

I bought a barrel composter yesterday. It was cheap, and Made in America, so I bought it. I'm now in the dirt making business!

What kind did you get? I really like my tumbler.

285 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:08:59pm

re: #266 Stanley Sea

Okay I never, ever speak against grandma. Not mine not anyone's. :) Ya got me there.

286 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:10:10pm

re: #282 Boogberg

I can't play at all. :D

The level of skill these guys have is mind boggling.

i can get huge distance on my shots - the direction concerned with the distance is completely incidental

:-p

287 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:10:24pm

re: #279 wozzablog

i'm a "right hander" in everything but golf (thanks to a great old coach), but when i was in kindergarden (uk equivalent) i always picked up a pen with my left hand - the teacher ALWAYS got me to switch to my right.

as a result my hand writing sux and i'm completely cack handed.

I can play golf right or lefty. I can throw a baseball and a football with either hand. I write lefty and my handwriting is terrible - like I'm writing with my foot.

288 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:10:47pm

re: #272 wozzablog

Kinda shows there is a better way to address the wrongs that deserve attention. Anger just leads to violence.

289 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:10:58pm

re: #280 Thanos

Yeah, she's been on that kick for a while now. She's never met a Nazi she didn't like.

290 swamprat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:11:47pm

re: #237 Plato

I don't disagree. I think the country is good. I don't think everybody who goes to a teaparty, or who objects to how the government spends their money, is racist.
But the teabaggers should police the events to discourage those who poison the well. And the teaparty has ties to RonPaul, who is not particularly known for making racists feel unwelcome.

But if the sane seek another venue, that venue will have even less effect.

Quite the dilemma for the ethical protester.

291 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:11:56pm

re: #274 Obdicut

Who has said that Bush is Robertson's 'shaddowpuppet' please? Or even "puppet"?

ME. I was having a discussion on a topic that I BROUGHT UP. I said that charges of undue personal influence, which for clarity's sake i am making akin to puppeteering, are preposterous for either Wright or Robertson.

Neither president is making decisions or made decisions based on direct personal/pastoral influence from either pastor, to the best of my knowledge.

I said i'd no sooner be caught in one's church than another. I stand by that statement, which was the genesis of this topic.

292 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:12:22pm

re: #289 Killgore Trout

Yeah, she's been on that kick for a while now. She's never met a Nazi she didn't like.

Did you notice they've now tried to start up "Stop the Islamization of America" chapters?

293 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:12:26pm

re: #285 Rightwingconspirator

Okay I never, ever speak against grandma. Not mine not anyone's. :) Ya got me there.

I'll remember to use her in my next argument! love it.

294 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:12:51pm

re: #278 Racer X

I bought a barrel composter yesterday. It was cheap, and Made in America, so I bought it. I'm now in the dirt making business!

We just use a ditch in at the back of our backyard.
Mucho cheaper than buying anything.

295 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:13:14pm

re: #284 Killgore Trout

What kind did you get? I really like my tumbler.

I got this one from Lowe's.

Haven't filled it yet.

296 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:13:16pm

re: #277 ludwigvanquixote

Good note, LVQ. In a similar theme, watch macadamia nuts around dogs (specifically Bassets). After my daughter's dog got into a large bag, it went into a paralytic state. The vet said it was definitely the nuts, and the dog would recover spontaneously. It was scary while it lasted.

297 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:13:48pm

re: #292 Thanos

Did you notice they've now tried to start up "Stop the Islamization of America" chapters?

Yeah, Crazy Pam is the president.

298 Plato  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:14:36pm

re: #102 Rightwingconspirator

Boys, you better keep your distance
You can look but you can't touch
That honkey tonk badonkadonk
Keepin' perfect rhythm
Make ya wanna swing along
Got it goin' on
Like Donkey Kong
And whoo-wee
Shut my mouth, slap your grandma

299 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:14:54pm

re: #294 reine.de.tout

We just use a ditch in at the back of our backyard.
Mucho cheaper than buying anything.

I'm a little limited on space, and my wife likes gadgets.

300 webevintage  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:15:04pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

My dear Lizards...
I have received word that Desertsage has lost his Son to a dirt bike accident Saturday.. He is heartbroken..
Say a prayer for him today.. He needs comfort from God..
Very tragic...

There are no words.
How very, very sad.
Of course him and his family will be remembered in our prayers here.

301 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:15:11pm

re: #292 Thanos

Did you notice they've now tried to start up "Stop the Islamization of America" chapters?

We're being Islamized? Since when? Where?

302 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:15:26pm

re: #281 Aceofwhat?

But why are you talking about that, Ace, instead of political influence?

It seems bafflingly irrelevant to insist on such a narrow topic.

Robertson had a huge influence on the Bush administration. The dean from his university was hired by Bush as his head of HR, who then proceeded to hire more than a hundred and fifty people from that university. You have no answer to why that might be other than a rather weak "It's hard to find conservative lawyers", which would, incidentally, an illegal reason to hire from Regents, not that I doubt that they did so.

You seem bound and determined to frame the discussion in such a way that you can contentedly say neither pastor had any influence, when it is patently obvious, from the number of people hired from his university alone, and from the close allegiance between the Bush administration view's on science and family planning to that of Robertson, that Robertson had a large amount of influence on Bush's presidency.

303 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:15:33pm

re: #296 Decatur Deb

Good note, LVQ. In a similar theme, watch macadamia nuts around dogs (specifically Bassets). After my daughter's dog got into a large bag, it went into a paralytic state. The vet said it was definitely the nuts, and the dog would recover spontaneously. It was scary while it lasted.

...although i bet your dog won't touch them again!

304 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:16:03pm

re: #291 Aceofwhat?

Then I have no clue why'd you bring up something so narrow and irrelevant.

305 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:16:06pm

re: #286 wozzablog

i can get huge distance on my shots - the direction concerned with the distance is completely incidental

:-p

Did you see Tiger miss that 3 footer only to be further away? Oh man! I bet he was pissed. :)

306 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:16:13pm

re: #288 Rightwingconspirator

Don't get you - wright wasn't violent, and to the best of my knowledge he's never incited violence.

He was angry as all hell about people using God as a punctuation mark - he made his point (in an over the top fashion) but at no point has that anger spilled over into violence.

307 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:16:23pm

re: #287 Racer X

I can play golf right or lefty. I can throw a baseball and a football with either hand. I write lefty and my handwriting is terrible - like I'm writing with my foot.

I'm a lefty also..But play Most sports right handed..In Basketball I always go strong to the Right side on the cross over..Who knew? I just always felt more comfortable going right

308 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:16:39pm

re: #283 Alouette

The neighbors with the pit bulls pulled up stakes and moved out, otherwise I would buy sacks of this stuff to mulch my tomato plants.

There is no such thing as a bad dog. There are only bad owners. If the dogs were menacing, that is an issue to take up with the owner. If however, they were just being normal dogs, I would point out that chocolate poisoning is not only real but an astonishingly painful and horrible way for a dog to die.

As with all substances, some individuals are susceptible than others and some are even resistant. What this means practically for a dog owner is that if somehow your (medium sized) dog gets a chocolate cupcake, there is a very good chance that they will just get a little hyper. If on the other hand, they were to get some high end 70% cocao chocolate or bakers chocolate, they will suffer the shakes, projectile vomiting and projectile diarrhea, organ failure and great pain untill it kills them over several agonizing hours.

In other words, Alouette, don't even joke about it.

309 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:17:14pm

re: #295 Racer X

I got this one from Lowe's.

Haven't filled it yet.

Nice! You do have to be a little careful not to overload it because those legs are often pretty flimsy. I took mine off the portable frame and mounted it between two 4x4 fence posts. now I can really load the thing up.

310 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:17:39pm

re: #308 ludwigvanquixote

There is no such thing as a bad dog. There are only bad owners.

This man

Image: cesar_milan.jpg

agrees.

311 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:18:17pm

re: #306 wozzablog

Sorry that's a Buddhist lesson I tried to absorb-anger leads to violence. Angry speech in general. Not that the Reverend was violent or advocated such.

312 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:18:23pm

re: #302 Obdicut

because it's what i wanted to talk about. am i really reduced to defending why i wanted to talk about something? i'm sorry that i failed to find a topic you deemed sufficiently robust.

(that's mostly lighthearted snark, but reread your post...it certainly reads like i'm being chided for not anticipating how you'd have wanted me to frame a topic)

313 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:19:07pm

Dog-walking time. BBL

314 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:19:15pm

re: #308 ludwigvanquixote

It's especially dangerous for cats. A lot of people let their cats outdoors to wander around. I keep mine indoors, there's just too much danger outside.

315 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:19:26pm

re: #280 Thanos

Meanwhile over at the Shrieking Harpie's she's obfuscating the Nazi white supremacist funeral by attacking the black nationalist who's most outspoken and outrageous atm. Hard to obscure the fact that Terreblanche was a fascist / nazi / white supremacist however.

Also note that the Triskele flag that was recently seen at the TN teaparty is prominent at the funeral.

Terreblanche's AWB has a very prominent role in the Harry Turtledove sf novel Guns of the South that we were discussing a couple of threads ago.

*spoiler*

It is none other than the AWB that steals a time machine and starts sending modern small arms, mostly AK-47s, to Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. In the book, AWB stands for "America Will Break" rather than "Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging" but there is enough detail on the time travelers to make the connection obvious.

316 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:19:40pm

re: #304 Obdicut

Then I have no clue why'd you bring up something so narrow and irrelevant.

because i felt like it. do i now get to criticize anything you bring up that i don't find sufficiently broad to suit my jumping in?

317 swamprat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:20:04pm

re: #306 wozzablog

Just find and listen to his speeches. If you already have, then you are not being honest.

318 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:20:21pm

re: #312 Aceofwhat?

I am chiding you, Ace. I think the way you're framing the topic is awkward, weird, and pointless. It is also ignoring the very real political influence that Robertson had on Bush's administration.

It's not about how I want you to do it-- it's about what makes any lick of sense whatsoever to me to talk about. You might as well say that Marx had very little personal influence on the Russian revolution. Sure, it's true, but why would anyone frame it that way?

319 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:20:39pm

re: #310 Obdicut

This man

Image: cesar_milan.jpg

agrees.

that guy helped me a ton. it's amazing how just changing how i carry myself could make such a big difference in how our dogs perceived me.

320 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:21:36pm

re: #310 Obdicut

This man

Image: cesar_milan.jpg

agrees.

Hail Cesar! Loved his show, read his book. Sadly, my dog read the book too so he knows all the tricks.

321 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:21:40pm

re: #319 Aceofwhat?

He is a wonderful example of something really interesting about memes, too: he teaches a meme to humans that allows them to understand and use the memes their dogs are operating under.

322 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:23:01pm

re: #318 Obdicut

I am chiding you, Ace. I think the way you're framing the topic is awkward, weird, and pointless. It is also ignoring the very real political influence that Robertson had on Bush's administration.

It's not about how I want you to do it-- it's about what makes any lick of sense whatsoever to me to talk about. You might as well say that Marx had very little personal influence on the Russian revolution. Sure, it's true, but why would anyone frame it that way?

because it's what i was thinking at the time.

when you frame something in a manner that i think is pointless, i just let it pass...or at least, i try to. to me, there was a point. it was a minor point, to be sure.

not everything i write is earth-shattering, although now i think i'm going to take it as a compliment, rather than a disagreement, that you expect more from me on a consistent basis!

(ha!)

323 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:23:49pm

Regarding the Polish President?

Russian media reports said he had once become angry with a pilot who refused to land in Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, on the grounds that it was unsafe. The same thing may have happened at Smolensk, aviation experts claimed. They suggested he may have pressed the pilot to make at least two attempts to land.

This sounds completely and totally possible.

A horrible thing. And another reason why the Captain/Pilot of an Airplane should always be the final authority.

324 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:24:20pm

re: #317 swamprat


Link me to vids or transcripts of Reverend Wright being violent or inciting violence implicitly or explicitly............


Pony up some links or drop your line about me being a liar.

325 swamprat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:25:21pm

re: #324 wozzablog

Go piss yourself.

I said what I said.

326 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:25:25pm

re: #322 Aceofwhat?

Well, it's also that SFZ was actually the first one to talk about influence, followed by me. You didn't actually frame the original point-- SFZ did.

That you then took it to 'personal influence' actually deviated from the point about influence that SFZ was making and that I continued.

327 bratwurst  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:26:29pm

re: #324 wozzablog

Link me to vids or transcripts of Reverend Wright being violent or inciting violence implicitly or explicitly...

You can easily accuse the guy of ALL KINDS of things...but not that!

328 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:27:07pm

re: #325 swamprat

There is no damn call for anything like that. There is nothing in any of Wright's speeches that I listened to-- and I've listened to far too many for my own liking, thanks to the brouh-haha-- in any way incites violence.

329 swamprat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:27:37pm

everybody mad?

You'd do me harm if I was there?

Violent speech begets violence.

330 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:28:24pm

re: #325 swamprat

That's nice.

No, really.

Quality posting.

331 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:28:44pm

re: #329 swamprat

No, I wouldn't do you a bit of harm if you were here.

What are you talking about, dude?

332 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:29:37pm

re: #317 swamprat

Just find and listen to his speeches. If you already have, then you are not being honest.

I've got a shit-for-brains wing-nut brother who continually brings up Rev. Wright and then says, in a Wolf Blitzer type breathlessness, "He was Obama's PASTOR for TWENTY YEARS!!!1OMFGZ!"

Sure, Wright's said some stupid shit a couple of times, but you're reaching so far here your ears are probably tickling your prostate.

333 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:30:15pm

re: #326 Obdicut

Well, it's also that SFZ was actually the first one to talk about influence, followed by me. You didn't actually frame the original point-- SFZ did.

That you then took it to 'personal influence' actually deviated from the point about influence that SFZ was making and that I continued.

in #79 i make a comment about "attending church", after some less-serious jabs with Brookly and Cato, which I later defined as "personal influence" because it's what i was thinking at the time.

it was a point i made, and i will endeavor to do better in the future (no, really, i am taking this as a compliment whether you want me to or not;)

334 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:30:22pm

re: #331 Obdicut

somebody is letting their ODS show by proxy.

335 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:30:33pm

Who wants a cold beer?

336 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:30:51pm

re: #335 Racer X

Who wants a cold beer?

Please...I need something to chase down this manhattan I just poured.

337 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:31:40pm

re: #329 swamprat

Weird... I was just looking at quotes about anger.

Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change.
Malcolm X

Here's a good one...

Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.
Malachy McCourt

Oooh! Nice.

The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough.
Bede Jarrett

Just three pretty cool quotes. That's all.

338 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:31:42pm

re: #333 Aceofwhat?

Okay, Ace.

Can you concede that the very large number of appointments made by Bush's administration of graduates of Regents represents political influence that Robertson had in the Bush administration?

339 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:31:55pm

re: #329 swamprat

everybody mad?

You'd do me harm if I was there?

Violent speech begets violence.

no one but you, apparently...

340 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:32:04pm

Study from Religious college links religion to racism...

[Link: blogs.chron.com...]

341 swamprat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:32:53pm

I could have gone three more posts and each of you would have throttled me if you could.

And Wright going on about how America deserved to be damned by God was sweetness and light and engendered no ill will?

Fine. I'm a liar. I'll take the shot.

342 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:33:11pm

re: #335 Racer X

Who wants a cold beer?

Don't mind if I do! :D

343 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:34:15pm

re: #340 Thanos

One of the sad things about religion is that you are taught that people that believe differently from you are lesser beings.

I believe that it expanded in some minds to people who are different from you are lesser beings.

Sad, that.

344 swamprat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:34:19pm

re: #342 Boogberg

Yeah I know. I'm spoiling the thread.

Sorry guys. I'll butt out.

345 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:34:23pm

re: #338 Obdicut

Okay, Ace.

Can you concede that the very large number of appointments made by Bush's administration of graduates of Regents represents political influence that Robertson had in the Bush administration?

I certainly concede that it appears that way, and that i am not well-read enough on it to counter assertions that it is more than an appearance.

That wasn't my original point of interest but i am happy to concede what i don't know and that i don't want to be or appear blind to facts.

I'm more concerned, though, that Regents is a crappy law school. If it was the 14th rated law school i'd laugh at your concern. But it's a 4th-tier school, and i generally like my appointees to be a lot smarter than the bottom of the law school barrel. No question there-

346 bratwurst  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:34:33pm

re: #329 swamprat

You'd do me harm if I was there?

I might have my 4-year-old niece call you a "silly billy" but I can assure you that is as far as the harm would go.

347 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:34:37pm

re: #341 swamprat

No, I wouldn't have throttled you.

Dude, I face down anti-abortion protesters screaming hate at me every fucking week. I have never gotten violent with them, and I never would.

You are simply unable to back up something you said and are now trying to get away from that.

Fine. I'm a liar. I'll take the shot.

You're a liar twice over now, given that you're insisting I'd do you physical violence over something you said, when doing that is the absolute opposite of who I am as a person.

348 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:34:55pm

re: #335 Racer X

Who wants a cold beer?

hit me

349 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:35:13pm
350 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:35:48pm

re: #341 swamprat

If you don't have links to back up your charge that i'm a liar........ then if you had gone three more posts i'd have laughed at you. Laughed hard, very very very hard.

You were about to be hoist by your own petard - not one of us would have needed to have lifted a finger.

351 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:36:47pm

re: #341 swamprat

I could have gone three more posts and each of you would have throttled me if you could.

And Wright going on about how America deserved to be damned by God was sweetness and light and engendered no ill will?

Fine. I'm a liar. I'll take the shot.

Hey - Reginald asserted that it wasn't unchristian, which i quite firmly disagree with. But i think it's stretching it to call that 'violent speech'.

Violent speech is 'i will hurt you because you insulted my god', not 'god will judge you'.

352 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:37:36pm

re: #347 Obdicut

You're a liar twice over now, given that you're insisting I'd do you physical violence over something you said, when doing that is the absolute opposite of who I am as a person.

Careful...don't let them make your knee ache...it's not worth it/

353 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:37:42pm

re: #345 Aceofwhat?

I certainly concede that it appears that way, and that i am not well-read enough on it to counter assertions that it is more than an appearance.

The more you read on it the more you'd find it did directly to to influence. It's also worrying to me that you, someone who I think of as involved in politics don't know much about this subject.

And yes, it's a crappy law school that Bush picked people from because of their religious and social worldviews. Which has contributed to my inability to take people crying about Van Jones or any of the rest of Obama's appointments seriously.

354 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:37:57pm

re: #344 swamprat

Yeah I know. I'm spoiling the thread.

Sorry guys. I'll butt out.

Not really. I think Rev. Wright is a scumbag too. "Goddamn America"? Heh.

355 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:38:21pm

re: #351 Aceofwhat?

"don't retreat, RELOAD!" is violent speech.

356 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:38:29pm

re: #351 Aceofwhat?

Completely agree - by that standard every brimstone/endtimes/rapture preacher is engaging in violent speech.

If that's the litmus then i'd agree - but unless you include every other brimstone preacher - there is no there there.

357 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:38:35pm

re: #292 Thanos

Did you notice they've now tried to start up "Stop the Islamization of America" chapters?

I gotta say, America is not noticeably Islamicizing from where I stand.

358 Macha  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:38:35pm

re: #36 Cato the Elder

WTF? Have you ever actually met a Democrat who said "I hate America?"

Sure, maybe they do in their satanic Wiccan coven meetings, but then they say it in Aramaic, and backwards.

Joe McCarthy ain't got nothin' on these nuts.

I'm late to this thread. And I haven't read further down yet, but I can't read this without a protest cause this is the kind of off the cuff bull that keeps a stereotype going and gives the real nutcakes ammo.
Wiccans don't have anything to do with Satan despite darn near every flavor of Christian trying to insist they are.
Wiccans don't have a beef with other religions, except when they are trying to tie one of us to a stake for a quick "roast the witch"party.
While there are way out there left wing Wiccans, there are a whole lot more of us who are moderates and centrists. There are Wiccans in the military, scorned by the Abrahamic religions majority who try to make their life hell for being different from the mainstream religions. They die for their country just like everyone else. But ask a few of them how they are treated by the chaplains.
I've been a practicing Wiccan for over a decade. I worked as a nurse most of my life. I worked as a county employee for a fair amount of that time and have seen local government in action from the inside. I'm disgusted with both political parties most of the time. I don't begrudge paying taxes but I don't always agree with the way the money is spent. I'm probably in agreement with the majority of people that post here in terms of political attitudes. I'd call myself a centrist, if anything, and am registered undeclared.
So if anyone here wants to continue to link Wiccans to Satan, or refer to Wiccan forms of worship in denigrating terms, you need to learn what Wicca is really about. It sure ain't devil worship.

OK, tantrum is over. I just had to say my piece as this kind of stupidity makes me nuts.

359 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:38:39pm

re: #349 Racer X

Hey, Racer... that's step one...

Here's step two...

360 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:38:40pm

re: #308 ludwigvanquixote

There is no such thing as a bad dog. There are only bad owners. If the dogs were menacing, that is an issue to take up with the owner. If however, they were just being normal dogs, I would point out that chocolate poisoning is not only real but an astonishingly painful and horrible way for a dog to die.

As with all substances, some individuals are susceptible than others and some are even resistant. What this means practically for a dog owner is that if somehow your (medium sized) dog gets a chocolate cupcake, there is a very good chance that they will just get a little hyper. If on the other hand, they were to get some high end 70% cocao chocolate or bakers chocolate, they will suffer the shakes, projectile vomiting and projectile diarrhea, organ failure and great pain untill it kills them over several agonizing hours.

In other words, Alouette, don't even joke about it.

The dogs broke through the fence and attacked the neighbor on the other side. The pit owners then hid their dogs and the neighbor (a 70 year old woman) had to take a series of rabies shots. She was suing the living shit out of the pit owners and that is why they took off with the pooches.

361 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:38:49pm

re: #353 Obdicut

The more you read on it the more you'd find it did directly to to influence. It's also worrying to me that you, someone who I think of as involved in politics don't know much about this subject.

And yes, it's a crappy law school that Bush picked people from because of their religious and social worldviews. Which has contributed to my inability to take people crying about Van Jones or any of the rest of Obama's appointments seriously.

i do think of myself as involved in politics. i will read more on it.

362 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:39:52pm

re: #357 SanFranciscoZionist

I gotta say, America is not noticeably Islamicizing from where I stand.

Ditto. Jacksonville feels the same as it did three months ago. Muslims are welcome but don't appear to be holding me down...

363 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:40:46pm

re: #354 Boogberg

Not really. I think Rev. Wright is a scumbag too. "Goddamn America"? Heh.

Context is important here. Rev. Wright was going off on a myriad of problems in this country at the time, and wasn't damning the country so much as calling for change as the country wasn't being very 'bless-worthy' at that time.

That's all I'll say on the topic.

364 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:40:46pm

re: #358 Macha

Well, I wasn't expecting that.

Cato was being sarcastic with the satanic Wiccans thing. He wasn't actually saying Wiccans worship Satan.

Everyone knows Wiccans worship Allison Hannigan.

Image: willownera.jpg

365 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:41:01pm

re: #349 Racer X

Home Made Robot


[Video]

Built mostly from old TV sets. Nice!

366 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:41:31pm

Earlier today:
Opposition leader Viktor Orban, who spurred the populist politics that have led to the rise of the far-right in Hungary, believes his party is set to win a two-thirds majority after Sunday's parliamentary elections. But it is the right-wing extremist Jobbik party that is setting the hateful tone of the campaign.

"Hungary belongs to the Hungarians," the crowd hears. One speaker claims that Israeli investors and their local agents are in the process of buying up the country with its 10 million inhabitants. The speaker argues that the government doesn't care where the money comes from and that they're letting these people "buy Hungary up." The currently governing Socialists, another speaker warns, will be "obliterated from the face of the Earth" and Roma will be encouraged to emigrate.

SNIP

Hungarian opposition leader Victor Orban has declared victory in the parliamentary election, saying it was a vote "to defeat hopelessness".

With most votes counted, his centre-right Fidesz party, narrowly beaten by the Socialists in the last election in 2006, looked set to take 50% of votes.

The far-right Jobbik party captured seats in parliament for the first time, winning more than a million votes.

SNIP

With 99% of votes counted, Fidesz had won 206 seats in the 386-member parliament, the Socialists 28, and Jobbik 26.

SNIP

367 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:41:56pm

re: #358 Macha

i think he was being sardonic...but welcome! if i weren't a Christian i'd be a Wiccan for sure.

368 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:42:03pm

re: #366 MandyManners

Bad news for the Roma. Sigh.

369 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:42:15pm

re: #359 fat bastard vegetarian

Hey, Racer... that's step one...

Here's step two...

LOL!

370 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:42:21pm

re: #363 darthstar

I am a partisan and that is the way I heard it.

371 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:42:55pm

re: #358 Macha

And on a more serious note: Wiccans deserve every bit of respect and privledge that members of other religions get from the government.

372 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:43:52pm

re: #371 Obdicut

And on a more serious note: Wiccans deserve every bit of respect and privledge that members of other religions get from the government.

agree completely.

373 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:43:56pm

re: #366 MandyManners

I'd like to note that 'The Roma will be encouraged to emigrate' means "We'll burn down the Roma's camps, beat them, steal their belongings, make them pay taxes that no-one else has to pay, and re-educate their children."

374 bratwurst  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:44:13pm

Praying for the death of a presidentre: #355 darthstar

"don't retreat, RELOAD!" is violent speech.

Even that is debatable, but a lot easier to make a case for it than what Wright said, as distasteful as some of it was.

375 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:44:53pm

re: #371 Obdicut

And on a more serious note: Wiccans deserve every bit of respect and privledge that members of other religions get from the government.

Except Lord Voldemort. I hate that guy.

376 bratwurst  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:45:08pm

re: #357 SanFranciscoZionist

I gotta say, America is not noticeably Islamicizing from where I stand.

You haven't noticed the "Halal Menu" at McDonalds yet?

377 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:45:33pm

re: #370 fat bastard vegetarian

I am a partisan and that is the way I heard it.

Thanks...it comforts me to know you don't buy into the "Everyone who supports Obama hates America" bullshit.

378 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:46:31pm

And now it's time for me to tackle a kitchenfull of dishes.

Have a good one, all.

379 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:46:58pm

re: #373 Obdicut

the Polish Law and Order party make the birchers and birthers look like freaking Dennis Kucinich.

380 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:47:07pm

re: #368 Obdicut

Bad news for the Roma. Sigh.

Don't forget the Jews, refered to this century as the "Israelis".

Still, Jobbik didn't win. In fact, they placed last.

381 Macha  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:47:53pm

re: #364 Obdicut

Well, I wasn't expecting that.

Cato was being sarcastic with the satanic Wiccans thing. He wasn't actually saying Wiccans worship Satan.

Everyone knows Wiccans worship Allison Hannigan.

Image: willownera.jpg

Well when I see sarcasm about a few other religions put in a similar way, I'll cool my ire. TV and the movies have really milked it for all it's worth and not done us any favors in the process. Speak of your misinformation! I'm not with out humor, and do appreciate sarcasm. I just hate the knee jerk quips about Satanic Wiccans. Its an oxymoron to begin with.

382 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:48:04pm

re: #331 Obdicut

No, I wouldn't do you a bit of harm if you were here.

What are you talking about, dude?

Ditto. I have no desire to harm swamprat.

383 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:49:05pm

re: #373 Obdicut

I'd like to note that 'The Roma will be encouraged to emigrate' means "We'll burn down the Roma's camps, beat them, steal their belongings, make them pay taxes that no-one else has to pay, and re-educate their children."

Not in this day and age. Again, Jobbik did not win.

384 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:49:30pm
385 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:49:30pm

re: #380 MandyManners

Don't forget the Jews, refered to this century as the "Israelis".

Still, Jobbik didn't win. In fact, they placed last.

There are Muslim, Christian and Jewish Israelis. Israeli doesn't equal Jew. I figure you know that, but it's important that one doesn't equate the two (even if their government is largely Jewish).

386 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:49:30pm

re: #382 SanFranciscoZionist

Ditto. I have no desire to harm swamprat.

hey, how long have you had that new avatar?

387 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:49:37pm

re: #377 darthstar

When I was a teenager I sang with an "Up With People" kind of group. We sang a song, "If you worship America, you are un-American".

He put the same thing in a different context.

Well, that's the way I saw it.

388 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:49:50pm

re: #378 Obdicut

And now it's time for me to tackle a kitchenfull of dishes.

Have a good one, all.

When you're done, pop over here for a few more.

389 Macha  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:50:04pm

re: #367 Aceofwhat?

Thank you. We aren't all that far apart in philosophy.

390 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:50:11pm

re: #360 Alouette

The dogs broke through the fence and attacked the neighbor on the other side. The pit owners then hid their dogs and the neighbor (a 70 year old woman) had to take a series of rabies shots. She was suing the living shit out of the pit owners and that is why they took off with the pooches.

I am terribly sorry to hear that.

Again, the proper place to direct your anger is at the owners.

Pit bulls get a lot of bad rap that is over generated by a sensationalist press. I am not belittling what happened to your friend, and I am not belittling that a large and powerful animal can be dangerous. However, I do want to put this in perspective and give some facts about dogs and how they work and what they are.

The fact is that if you want a mean dog, it is the easiest thing in the world to get. Simply get a puppy and mistreat it. Ignore it. Fail to give it affection, or structure or discipline - and worst of all, abuse it.

If you do those things you are are 100% guaranteed to get a mean dog. If you get a powerful breed and do those things you get a powerful, and mean dog.

But this is not the fault of the dog. With few exceptions, even very "mean" dogs, when removed from that environment, and given proper love, structure and attention become sweet.

Now on top of this you have a sensationalist media and a bunch of people who have no business owning dogs. Before Pits were the bete noir of the dog world it was Dobermanns and before that Rotties and German Shepards. These are large and powerful creatures and if some yo-yuk who has no business raising one, gets one to be all manly, or to guard his place, but he then gives it the same affection he would a burglar alarm, it does not always turn out well. The media and the yo yuks make a cycle. The media freaks people out, the Yo - yuk says get me one of those! and the cycle goes round and round until a new breed gets picked to be picked on.

All along though it was the yo-yuk who was to blame.

391 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:50:20pm

re: #382 SanFranciscoZionist

Ditto. I have no desire to harm swamprat.

Me either...curse this pacifist streak of mine.

392 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:50:21pm

re: #341 swamprat

I could have gone three more posts and each of you would have throttled me if you could.

And Wright going on about how America deserved to be damned by God was sweetness and light and engendered no ill will?

Fine. I'm a liar. I'll take the shot.

Wright was speaking to Americans. It's not unknown for a preacher to speak harshly about the failings of the community.

Don't like how he did it, but the idea that any angry speech whips up violence seems a bit far-fetched.

393 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:50:48pm

re: #343 fat bastard vegetarian

One of the sad things about religion is that you are taught that people that believe differently from you are lesser beings.

Not at my shul.

394 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:51:15pm

re: #385 darthstar

There are Muslim, Christian and Jewish Israelis. Israeli doesn't equal Jew. I figure you know that, but it's important that one doesn't equate the two (even if their government is largely Jewish).

You know damn-good-and-well that they were not referring to Christians or Muslims. They were talking about Jews.

395 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:51:24pm

Expensive bottled water


People are flocking to a New York establishment that sells 80 different brands of water, including the $55-a-pop "Bling H20."

396 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:51:29pm

re: #387 fat bastard vegetarian

When I was a teenager I sang with an "Up With People" kind of group. We sang a song, "If you worship America, you are un-American".

He put the same thing in a different context.

Well, that's the way I saw it.

I had a friend who sang with "Up With People"...I saw them perform a few times...enjoyed the shows (I was a kid, so I'm excused).

397 Macha  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:52:31pm

re: #371 Obdicut

And on a more serious note: Wiccans deserve every bit of respect and privledge that members of other religions get from the government.

Thank you. I think so too, but obviously I'm biased. Equality is a long way off.

398 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:53:26pm

re: #394 MandyManners

You know damn-good-and-well that they were not referring to Christians or Muslims. They were talking about Jews.

And they were wrong to use "Israeli" to refer to Jews, if that was what they were doing.

399 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:53:42pm

re: #373 Obdicut

I'd like to note that 'The Roma will be encouraged to emigrate' means "We'll burn down the Roma's camps, beat them, steal their belongings, make them pay taxes that no-one else has to pay, and re-educate their children."

Madonna dressed down a crowd in Bucharest some time ago about the way the Roma are treated in Eastern Europe. I would love to see her take up their cause big-time.

400 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:53:44pm

re: #383 MandyManners

Not in this day and age.


yes, in this day and age.

Poland is not a socially forward looking country, and the main stream right wing over there are no friends to gays, women or any form of minority.

the Law and Justice party that is one of the largest in government has a terrible record on treating "unpure" Polish people with anything other than disdain.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

401 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:53:46pm

re: #390 ludwigvanquixote

I am terribly sorry to hear that.

Again, the proper place to direct your anger is at the owners.

Pit bulls get a lot of bad rap that is over generated by a sensationalist press. I am not belittling what happened to your friend, and I am not belittling that a large and powerful animal can be dangerous. However, I do want to put this in perspective and give some facts about dogs and how they work and what they are.

The fact is that if you want a mean dog, it is the easiest thing in the world to get. Simply get a puppy and mistreat it. Ignore it. Fail to give it affection, or structure or discipline - and worst of all, abuse it.

If you do those things you are are 100% guaranteed to get a mean dog. If you get a powerful breed and do those things you get a powerful, and mean dog.

But this is not the fault of the dog. With few exceptions, even very "mean" dogs, when removed from that environment, and given proper love, structure and attention become sweet.

Now on top of this you have a sensationalist media and a bunch of people who have no business owning dogs. Before Pits were the bete noir of the dog world it was Dobermanns and before that Rotties and German Shepards. These are large and powerful creatures and if some yo-yuk who has no business raising one, gets one to be all manly, or to guard his place, but he then gives it the same affection he would a burglar alarm, it does not always turn out well. The media and the yo yuks make a cycle. The media freaks people out, the Yo - yuk says get me one of those! and the cycle goes round and round until a new breed gets picked to be picked on.

All along though it was the yo-yuk who was to blame.

I don't have a pet, but if I did have a pet it would be a kitteh.

402 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:54:04pm

re: #384 Racer X

You Fool!


[Video]

That was hilarious! :D

403 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:54:27pm

re: #396 darthstar

I was invited... didn't wanna.

404 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:54:35pm

re: #375 Racer X

Except Lord Voldemort. I hate that guy.

I don't think Voldemort is a Wiccan. Then again, I've never been totally clear on the role religion plays in the Harry Potter world. I think they're all secular Anglicans or something.

405 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:54:48pm

re: #395 Racer X

Expensive bottled water


[Video]
People are flocking to a New York establishment that sells 80 different brands of water, including the $55-a-pop "Bling H20."

Damn...I should start a bottled water company. Charge 30 bucks a bottle (to get the "I just don't see the point in paying $55 a bottle for water but still want to look like I've got money to burn" crowd).

406 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:54:51pm

re: #376 bratwurst

You haven't noticed the "Halal Menu" at McDonalds yet?

I only wish. I'll eat halal in restaurants.

407 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:55:03pm

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

Wright was speaking to Americans. It's not unknown for a preacher to speak harshly about the failings of the community.

Don't like how he did it, but the idea that any angry speech whips up violence seems a bit far-fetched.

not whip up violence, but emotion...a togetherness against something or someone, repression, inequity or whatever...preachers have been doing it for centuries right up to the slaves of the south and beyond

408 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:55:35pm

re: #386 Aceofwhat?

hey, how long have you had that new avatar?

A day or so. It's Norma Talmadge.

409 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:56:05pm

re: #398 darthstar

And they were wrong to use "Israeli" to refer to Jews, if that was what they were doing.

"Israeli" It's the modern code for "Jew". In fact, it's the modern dog's whistle.

410 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:56:44pm

re: #400 wozzablog

yes, in this day and age.

Poland is not a socially forward looking country, and the main stream right wing over there are no friends to gays, women or any form of minority.

the Law and Justice party that is one of the largest in government has a terrible record on treating "unpure" Polish people with anything other than disdain.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Poland? Huh? Hungary had an election today.

411 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:56:45pm

re: #406 SanFranciscoZionist

I only wish. I'll eat halal in restaurants.

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't Halal meat Kosher? Or is it Kosher meat that is considered Halal? I know there's an overlap here.

412 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:57:18pm

re: #401 Alouette

I don't have a pet, but if I did have a pet it would be a kitteh.

Matzoh kitteh?

413 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:57:26pm

re: #395 Racer X

Expensive bottled water


[Video]
People are flocking to a New York establishment that sells 80 different brands of water, including the $55-a-pop "Bling H20."

What a freaking racket.

414 Reginald Perrin  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:57:34pm

re: #395 Racer X
Penn and Teller did an episode of Bull Shit on bottled water.

415 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:58:04pm

re: #408 SanFranciscoZionist

woof!

416 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:58:06pm

they blew up Texas Stadium today....pass the kleenex

417 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:58:16pm

re: #408 SanFranciscoZionist

A day or so. It's Norma Talmadge.

yes, i'm the guy who comes home to a wife with new hair, gives her a quick kiss, and walks past without noticing...i'm that guy.

at least she knows it's because i'm built that way...

418 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:58:24pm

re: #411 darthstar

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't Halal meat Kosher? Or is it Kosher meat that is considered Halal? I know there's an overlap here.

Kosher meat is halal, but not all halal is kosher.

419 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:58:31pm

re: #404 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think Voldemort is a Wiccan. Then again, I've never been totally clear on the role religion plays in the Harry Potter world. I think they're all secular Anglicans or something.

Hermione is vaguely Jewish.

420 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:58:36pm

re: #416 albusteve

and Amen.

421 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:58:38pm

re: #409 MandyManners

"Israeli" It's the modern code for "Jew". In fact, it's the modern dog's whistle.

I know. And I'll continue to post the distinction as I see it until such a time that people stop equating the country with the religion. (That goes for the USA and Christianity, Saudi Arabia and Islam, and Japan with Shintoism...though I do think the latter is no longer an issue)

422 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:58:59pm

10 Span-tastic Bridges

Really Cool!

423 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:59:00pm

re: #410 MandyManners

Sorry, crossed purposes.

424 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:59:10pm

re: #416 albusteve

they blew up Texas Stadium today...pass the kleenex

i quite dislike the cowboys.

425 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:59:14pm

re: #418 Alouette

Kosher meat is halal, but not all halal is kosher.

Thanks...I thought that was the case, but wasn't sure.

426 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:59:23pm

I drink nothing but bottled water. I have a bottle of Ethos from Starkbutt's I got in December 2008 that I fill one-inch from the 'freezer's water spigot and one I got a few months ago. Both still have their labels.

427 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:59:51pm

re: #419 ludwigvanquixote

Not here...

428 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:59:53pm

re: #418 Alouette

Kosher meat is halal, but not all halal is kosher.

And even that depends on how strict the Muslim is about Halal. Some Muslims hold that halal meat can only be slaughtered by a Muslim.

429 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 4:59:54pm

re: #424 Aceofwhat?

i quite dislike the cowboys.

I quite dislike you then

430 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:00:34pm

re: #426 MandyManners

I drink nothing but bottled water. I have a bottle of Ethos from Starkbutt's I got in December 2008 that I fill one-inch from the 'freezer's water spigot and one I got a few months ago. Both still have their labels.

doesn't the plastic start to leach after a while?

431 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:00:39pm

re: #421 darthstar

I know. And I'll continue to post the distinction as I see it until such a time that people stop equating the country with the religion. (That goes for the USA and Christianity, Saudi Arabia and Islam, and Japan with Shintoism...though I do think the latter is no longer an issue)

Muslim and Christian Arabs can live in Israel and every other nation except which one?

432 bratwurst  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:00:44pm

re: #406 SanFranciscoZionist

I only wish. I'll eat halal in restaurants.

I'll take a halal doner kebab over a Big Mac 10 out of 10 times.

433 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:00:53pm

re: #429 albusteve

I quite dislike you then

i'll take that as a compliment/

434 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:00:59pm

re: #424 Aceofwhat?

i quite dislike the cowboys.

You know why cowboys don't make good lovers?

They think eight seconds is a long ride.

/rodeo-joke

435 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:01:04pm

re: #423 wozzablog

Sorry, crossed purposes.

'Sokay.

436 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:01:04pm

re: #429 albusteve

I quite dislike you then

jus kidding

437 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:01:25pm

re: #409 MandyManners

"Israeli" It's the modern code for "Jew". In fact, it's the modern dog's whistle.

I thought that was "Zionist"

438 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:01:33pm

re: #411 darthstar

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't Halal meat Kosher? Or is it Kosher meat that is considered Halal? I know there's an overlap here.

Sunnis will eat kosher-slaughtered meat, and consider it halal. I've been told that in some parts of the Middle East, Jews were the preferred butchers for the Muslim population, because it was known they were super-careful about the schechting process. Shiites won't, not because they don't approve the slaughter process, but because they won't eat food processed by non-Muslims. Don't know if that still applies universally in these days of canned goods and whatnot.

Halal slaughter is not considered kosher, but on the rare occasion that I am offered halal meat at a restaurant or someone's home, I will eat it, as long as it's not cooked with dairy. Call it a personal outreach mission, along with maybe my only chance to ever eat meat in a Chinese restaurant again. (There's a Muslim-run Chinese place in Fremont.)

439 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:01:50pm

re: #430 Aceofwhat?

doesn't the plastic start to leach after a while?

Not that I'm aware of. Both are still as hard as the day I bought them.

440 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:02:41pm

re: #437 Alouette

I thought that was "Zionist"

Anyone can be a Zionist.

BTW, I'm speaking of the article about Hungary's election results today.

441 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:02:49pm

re: #422 Racer X

10 Span-tastic Bridges

Really Cool!

Awesome!

442 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:02:55pm

re: #436 albusteve

jus kidding

don't go all soft on me now, Steve-o...

443 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:03:01pm

re: #430 Aceofwhat?

doesn't the plastic start to leach after a while?

I've had the same 9 water bottles for three months.

444 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:03:53pm

re: #426 MandyManners

I drink nothing but bottled water. I have a bottle of Ethos from Starkbutt's I got in December 2008 that I fill one-inch from the 'freezer's water spigot and one I got a few months ago. Both still have their labels.

Oops. Make that December of 2007.

445 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:04:08pm

re: #431 MandyManners

Muslim and Christian Arabs can live in Israel and every other nation except which one?

Oh oh oh oh! Is it Saudi Arabia?

446 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:04:40pm

later days kids.

447 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:04:46pm

re: #445 Boogberg

Oh oh oh oh! Is it Saudi Arabia?

I think there are some Muslim Arabs in Saudi Arabia.

448 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:05:21pm

re: #445 Boogberg

Oh oh oh oh! Is it Saudi Arabia?

Yes, Horshack. It is.

449 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:05:44pm

re: #447 SanFranciscoZionist

I think there are some Muslim Arabs in Saudi Arabia.

Do tell!

450 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:06:03pm

re: #447 SanFranciscoZionist

I think there are some Muslim Arabs in Saudi Arabia.

Yes, but that wasn't the question.

451 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:06:33pm

re: #450 Boogberg

Yes, but that wasn't the question.

I wasn't sure what the question was, precisely.

452 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:06:49pm

Safely reusing plastic

If a plastic says "not for reuse", or "discard after using", you should probably throw it away.

453 thatthatisis  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:07:06pm

This is kind of off topic, but in Charles' original post, I noticed that George Wallace Jr. was one of the featured speakers at the CCC meeting at issue. I found that a little disappointing. In his later years, George Wallace Sr. apologized for his racist beliefs and actions, and I had thought / hoped his apology and change of heart was sincere, and a good thing.

I know we can't ascribe the views of one family member to another. Yet, it does make me now doubt that anything the father said could be believed. Here we see the son keynoting a speech to an organization with "Racial Integrity" right up front on their logo.

I say this sadly, but it appears to me the Confederacy doesn't require any celebratory months. It's all too alive and well.

454 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:07:10pm

re: #443 fat bastard vegetarian

I've had the same 9 water bottles for three months.

I keep heavy Gatorade bottles and refill them from two 2 1/2 gallon carriers with spigots....I get the water across the way at a kiosk for 25cnts a gallon...I love my country

455 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:07:18pm

re: #439 MandyManners

Not that I'm aware of. Both are still as hard as the day I bought them.

[Link: www.boston.com...]

it's not nightmarish, but concerns like this do lead me to use stainless steel or plastic without BPA

456 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:08:29pm

Does anyone but me find Andy Rooney to be uninteresting, unfunny and aggravating as hell?

457 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:09:31pm

re: #456 reine.de.tout

Does anyone but me find Andy Rooney to be uninteresting, unfunny and aggravating as hell?

I have to say that I have no strong feelings about Andy Rooney at all.

458 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:09:36pm

re: #456 reine.de.tout

Does anyone but me find Andy Rooney to be uninteresting, unfunny and aggravating as hell?

yep. haven't watched him in...wow...at least 10 years. i vote with my remote control.

(which results in lots of sports, Discovery, NatGeo when the mrs. isn't in the room)

459 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:09:45pm

re: #456 reine.de.tout

Does anyone but me find Andy Rooney to be uninteresting, unfunny and aggravating as hell?

I don't respect any man who uses artificial eyebrows

460 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:10:38pm

re: #457 SanFranciscoZionist

I have to say that I have no strong feelings about Andy Rooney at all.

how he looks in the mirror and thinks 'nope, these eyebrows are juuust right' is beyond me...

461 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:10:58pm

re: #459 albusteve

I don't respect any man who uses artificial eyebrows

he's an old combat vet tho...I much respect him for that

462 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:11:14pm

re: #431 MandyManners

Muslim and Christian Arabs can live in Israel and every other nation except which one?

Christian Arabs actually can, and do, live in Saudi Arabia, though there are no Christian churches there.

463 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:11:31pm

re: #456 reine.de.tout

Does anyone but me find Andy Rooney to be uninteresting, unfunny and aggravating as hell?

I just think that his eyebrows should be declared a protected nature preserve.

464 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:12:11pm

re: #463 Alouette

I just think that his eyebrows should be declared a protected nature preserve.

at least cut some trails through them

465 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:12:27pm

re: #462 darthstar

Christian Arabs actually can, and do, live in Saudi Arabia, though there are no Christian churches there.

They live there. Not well, or freely, but they live there.

466 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:12:36pm

re: #452 reine.de.tout

Safely reusing plastic

If a plastic says "not for reuse", or "discard after using", you should probably throw it away.

Good info - thanks!

How about using the reusable aluminum water bottles?

467 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:12:37pm

Gosh, darnit! No one got my Kotter reference?

*stomps widdle foot*

468 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:13:07pm

re: #455 Aceofwhat?

[Link: www.boston.com...]

it's not nightmarish, but concerns like this do lead me to use stainless steel or plastic without BPA

I'M GONNA' DIE?!!ELEVENTY!!!

469 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:13:14pm

re: #463 Alouette

I just think that his eyebrows should be declared a protected nature preserve.

Ahhh...THAT's why he doesn't trim them. The EPA must have issued an injunction/

470 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:13:40pm

re: #456 reine.de.tout

(whiny voice)

Why is that?

471 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:13:43pm

re: #456 reine.de.tout

Does anyone but me find Andy Rooney to be uninteresting, unfunny and aggravating as hell?

I came very close to shooting my TV one night while watching him.

472 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:13:57pm

re: #467 MandyManners

Gosh, darnit! No one got my Kotter reference?

*stomps widdle foot*

I got it! I got it! :D

473 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:14:01pm

re: #459 albusteve

I don't respect any man who uses artificial eyebrows

Dood, they aren't fake.

474 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:14:05pm

re: #467 MandyManners

Gosh, darnit! No one got my Kotter reference?

*stomps widdle foot*

Got it...just never found the original show all that funny, either. ;)

475 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:14:34pm

I was wrong as usual...Rooney was a war correspondent, not combat vet....so I don't like him again

476 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:14:34pm

re: #462 darthstar

Christian Arabs actually can, and do, live in Saudi Arabia, though there are no Christian churches there.

So, what's the use?

Are they allowed to have Bibles?

477 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:14:34pm

re: #460 Aceofwhat?

how he looks in the mirror and thinks 'nope, these eyebrows are juuust right' is beyond me...

You obviously are not over 50 and been confronted with the phenomena of weirdly growing eyebrows. It's quite a conundrum...let them go wild? Wax them? Trim them? I have one brow growing in TWO DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS!!! I can literally part the fucking thing in the middle. My wife is always asking me to 'tease' them. I'd rather curse at 'em.

Andy Rooney...meh, he's still alive?

478 fat bastard vegetarian  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:14:49pm

re: #467 MandyManners

I wouldn't have missed it, I wouldn't have missed it.

479 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:14:58pm

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

Think of the rhetoric we see at Tea Parties. That is thought to encourage militias like the Hutaree. or the angry words about Ruby Ridge and Waco as motivations for Tim McVeigh. Or Malcolm X and angry young black men. With that I'm going up thread. looks appropriate to my point.

480 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:15:19pm

re: #472 Boogberg

I got it! I got it! :D

Well, not up your nose with a rubber hose.

481 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:15:46pm

re: #466 Racer X

Good info - thanks!

How about using the reusable aluminum water bottles?

ah, fluid bottles....mine hold a variety of fluids, sometimes even water

482 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:16:04pm

re: #456 reine.de.tout

Does anyone but me find Andy Rooney to be uninteresting, unfunny and aggravating as hell?

Yes, it's a race to change the channel. He's annoying.

483 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:16:32pm

re: #476 MandyManners

So, what's the use?

Are they allowed to have Bibles?

Get caught with one there and it's your ass.

484 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:17:31pm

re: #474 darthstar

Got it...just never found the original show all that funny, either. ;)

I may have mentioned this already, but I had this Jerry Garcia T-shirt back in the 80's. A punk rock friend had markered out "Jerry Garcia" and scrawled "Gabe Kotter" under it.

Heh, still makes me laugh.

485 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:18:00pm

re: #474 darthstar

Got it...just never found the original show all that funny, either. ;)

*whackwhackwhack*

(I was very, very young so I found it funny. The next time I saw Barbarino was in either Saturday Night Fever or that 50's move with Olivia Newton-John.)

486 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:18:09pm

re: #468 MandyManners

I'M GONNA' DIE?!!ELEVENTY!!!

hey, do whatcha want, girlfriend. my diet is 80% meat and i plan to see 100...cholesterol worries are way overblown...

487 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:19:22pm

re: #477 Jeff In Ohio

You obviously are not over 50 and been confronted with the phenomena of weirdly growing eyebrows. It's quite a conundrum...let them go wild? Wax them? Trim them? I have one brow growing in TWO DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS!!! I can literally part the fucking thing in the middle. My wife is always asking me to 'tease' them. I'd rather curse at 'em.

Andy Rooney...meh, he's still alive?

come on...you trim your sideburns, right? hair on face is hair on face...

488 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:19:31pm

re: #480 MandyManners

Well, not up your nose with a rubber hose.

Haha! I liked how the sweathogs just climbed through Kotter's fire escape window whenever they felt like it. :)

489 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:19:33pm

re: #483 Boogberg

Get caught with one there and it's your ass.

So, one cannot be a Christian in Saudi Arabia.

490 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:20:18pm

re: #486 Aceofwhat?

hey, do whatcha want, girlfriend. my diet is 80% meat and i plan to see 100...cholesterol worries are way overblown...

But, BHO said we should not be allowed to eat what we want.

491 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:20:46pm

re: #488 Boogberg

Haha! I liked how the sweathogs just climbed through Kotter's fire escape window whenever they felt like it. :)

Try raising a future Sweat-Hog.

492 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:20:50pm

re: #477 Jeff In Ohio

You obviously are not over 50 and been confronted with the phenomena of weirdly growing eyebrows. It's quite a conundrum...let them go wild? Wax them? Trim them? I have one brow growing in TWO DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS!!! I can literally part the fucking thing in the middle. My wife is always asking me to 'tease' them. I'd rather curse at 'em.

Andy Rooney...meh, he's still alive?

but you're right - i'm 33.

493 windsagio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:21:17pm

damn, I missed a chance to talk about Wicca.

494 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:21:30pm

re: #490 MandyManners

But, BHO said we should not be allowed to eat what we want.

i'm far more worried about that NY crap catching on...idiots confusing sodium intake with health...

495 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:21:50pm

re: #99 CuriousLurker

Okay, so let's put this in a different context: I'm Muslim. We'll pretend that you know me to be a decent person. You notice that I keep showing up at rallies with a bunch of other Muslims that I claim are decent, but there's also this ever-present if small contingent of radicals who carry around signs calling for an Islamic state in the U.S., the destruction of Israel, and wearing t-shirts with nasty caricatures of "kafirs" on them, etc. Would you still give me & the other lacking-in-courage-but-not-necessarily-evil Muslims a pass, or would you take us to task over the company we've been keeping?

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just asking what your reaction would be.

fair point

496 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:21:53pm

I think we will have a pretty strong storm for spring tonight...
[Link: www.intellicast.com...]

497 Racer X  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:21:54pm
498 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:22:01pm

re: #477 Jeff In Ohio

You obviously are not over 50 and been confronted with the phenomena of weirdly growing eyebrows. It's quite a conundrum...let them go wild? Wax them? Trim them? I have one brow growing in TWO DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS!!! I can literally part the fucking thing in the middle. My wife is always asking me to 'tease' them. I'd rather curse at 'em.

Andy Rooney...meh, he's still alive?

Wax is your friend.

*cackle*

499 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:22:03pm

re: #487 Aceofwhat?

come on...you trim your sideburns, right? hair on face is hair on face...

I do, but the 'part' makes them look like I have a brow with a mohawk. Maybe I need to wax them.

500 darthstar  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:22:07pm

re: #485 MandyManners

*whackwhackwhack*

(I was very, very young so I found it funny. The next time I saw Barbarino was in either Saturday Night Fever or that 50's move with Olivia Newton-John.)

My smiley was a snark tag. I loved the show. Had a crush on Kotter's wife. thought Horshack was the funniest character on the planet. It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that Horshack was Jewish, and Epstein was a Puerto Rican with a Jewish name...then again, I grew up in a very rural area (where you were either Catholic, Baptist, or Presbyterian) and didn't realize my high school friend with the last name of Steinberg was Jewish until some time later in college.

501 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:22:13pm

re: #493 windsagio

damn, I missed a chance to talk about Wicca.

they might still be lurking - i'll join the conversation if you can get it started again!

502 windsagio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:22:41pm

re: #497 Racer X

I see alot of the steel water bottles and think, 'hey, isn't that a camping white gas container?'

503 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:22:48pm

re: #493 windsagio

damn, I missed a chance to talk about Wicca.

Burn some sage or whatever.

504 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:23:06pm

re: #498 MandyManners

GAHHHHH! GMTA!

505 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:23:15pm

re: #494 Aceofwhat?

i'm far more worried about that NY crap catching on...idiots confusing sodium intake with health...

You Nazi, you!

506 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:25:02pm

re: #489 MandyManners

So, one cannot be a Christian in Saudi Arabia.

I think it's illegal for Saudi citizens to convert to any religion other than Islam. Saudi citizens can "technically" be Christian, but they would be breaking the law.

507 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:27:10pm

re: #500 darthstar

My smiley was a snark tag. I loved the show. Had a crush on Kotter's wife. thought Horshack was the funniest character on the planet. It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that Horshack was Jewish, and Epstein was a Puerto Rican with a Jewish name...then again, I grew up in a very rural area (where you were either Catholic, Baptist, or Presbyterian) and didn't realize my high school friend with the last name of Steinberg was Jewish until some time later in college.

Oh, yeah. Julie Kotter was hawt!!!

I grew up in a similar area. (Well, we had no Catholics.) But, I knew about Horshack and Epstein for some reason. I don't undertand how because I was a pre-teen but, I knew. (Well, I exhausted the local library when I was very young so, I'm sure I picked up a thing or three.)

508 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:28:10pm

re: #504 Jeff In Ohio

GAHHH! GMTA!

Have you made that appointment with your salon yet?

*rrriiippp*

509 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:28:34pm

re: #505 MandyManners

You Nazi, you!

i do shave my head occasionally...nothing like the strange feeling of wind on your scalp.

510 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:28:47pm

re: #506 Boogberg

I think it's illegal for Saudi citizens to convert to any religion other than Islam. Saudi citizens can "technically" be Christian, but they would be breaking the law.

And, let's try to figure out how to move a Christian into Saudi Arabia.

511 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:28:53pm

re: #491 MandyManners

Try raising a future Sweat-Hog.

My 17 yr old nephew IS a sweathog. A modern one, but still a sweathog.

512 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:29:35pm

re: #509 Aceofwhat?

i do shave my head occasionally...nothing like the strange feeling of wind on your scalp.

Wouldn't know about that so I'll take your word for it.

513 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:30:07pm

re: #511 Boogberg

My 17 yr old nephew IS a sweathog. A modern one, but still a sweathog.

So's The Kid.

514 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:31:06pm

re: #490 MandyManners

But, BHO said we should not be allowed to eat what we want.

Have you got a link, a quote, even a paraphrase? Or just more ODS?

515 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:33:19pm

re: #510 MandyManners

And, let's try to figure out how to move a Christian into Saudi Arabia.

Ain't gonna happen. Not in our lifetimes.

516 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:33:24pm

re: #486 Aceofwhat?

hey, do whatcha want, girlfriend. my diet is 80% meat and i plan to see 100...cholesterol worries are way overblown...

Oh, those doctors with their silly blood tests and cholesterol meds.

As for 100, good luck--you're gonna need it.

517 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:35:54pm

re: #516 palomino

Oh, those doctors with their silly blood tests and cholesterol meds.

As for 100, good luck--you're gonna need it.

put differently, blanket statements about meat and cholesterol are just that...blanket statements.

518 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:38:02pm

re: #514 palomino

Have you got a link, a quote, even a paraphrase? Or just more ODS?

ODS is so yesterday...I just laugh when I hear it anymore

519 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:38:03pm

re: #514 palomino

Have you got a link, a quote, even a paraphrase? Or just more ODS?

I have not an ounce of ODS in me. I have evaluated him based on the links Charles and his Lizards have posted since sometime around May, 2008.

520 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:39:08pm

re: #519 MandyManners

I have not an ounce of ODS in me. I have evaluated him based on the links Charles and his Lizards have posted since sometime around May, 2008.

more petty partisanship...

521 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:39:08pm

re: #518 albusteve

ODS is so yesterday...I just laugh when I hear it anymore

Right, no teabaggers are afflicted?

522 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:40:21pm

re: #519 MandyManners

I have not an ounce of ODS in me. I have evaluated him based on the links Charles and his Lizards have posted since sometime around May, 2008.

Just curious about the link where Obama said something to threaten the American way of eating.

523 Mocking Jay  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:41:17pm

re: #522 palomino

Just curious about the link where Obama said something to threaten the American way of eating.

What do you think that vegetable garden was all about? :P

524 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:41:36pm

re: #521 palomino

Right, no teabaggers are afflicted?

beats me...who cares?...whatever they think has no effect on me, other than maybe a passing opinion....but what's Mandy have to do with them?

525 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:41:42pm

re: #522 palomino

Just curious about the link where Obama said something to threaten the American way of eating.

i'll bet he has the wrong idea about what real pizza looks like/

526 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:41:47pm

re: #520 albusteve

more petty partisanship...

*snipe*
*snipe*
*snipe*

527 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:41:56pm

re: #381 Macha

Well when I see sarcasm about a few other religions put in a similar way, I'll cool my ire. TV and the movies have really milked it for all it's worth and not done us any favors in the process. Speak of your misinformation! I'm not with out humor, and do appreciate sarcasm. I just hate the knee jerk quips about Satanic Wiccans. Its an oxymoron to begin with.

Please allow me to introduce myself. I used to be a man of wealth, and still have taste.

And my default mode is sarcasm. Which means I'll rip Wiccan flesh as easily and gladly as I do that of pseudo-Christians, shrieking Jews, bumbling Buddhists and Islamofascists. All to make a point.

Hope that's OK with you.

528 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:42:00pm

re: #523 JasonA

What do you think that vegetable garden was all about? :P

Right, what a huge assault on our freedoms.//////////

529 Mocking Jay  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:42:19pm

re: #525 Aceofwhat?

i'll bet he has the wrong idea about what real pizza looks like/

He's from Chicago. This goes without saying.

530 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:42:45pm

re: #522 palomino

Just curious about the link where Obama said something to threaten the American way of eating.

It was more than that. He said that we should not eat as we do, use gas as we do, heat/cool our homes as we do because they are not in line with the rest of the world.

531 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:43:19pm

re: #529 JasonA

He's from Chicago. This goes without saying.

He's from Hawaii.

532 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:43:36pm

re: #522 palomino

Just curious about the link where Obama said something to threaten the American way of eating.

hmmm............. teh google says he eats pizza, taco's, chicken, cheesesteaks......... if he was telling people they should never eat such things that would make him a hypocrite.....................

if he told people they should eat them as part of a balanced diet he's a freaking 3rd grade studies teacher.............

either way - hiss!!!!1 boo!!!!!111!!!111

533 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:43:41pm

re: #527 Cato the Elder

Please allow me to introduce myself. I used to be a man of wealth, and still have taste.

And my default mode is sarcasm. Which means I'll rip Wiccan flesh as easily and gladly as I do that of pseudo-Christians, shrieking Jews, bumbling Buddhists and Islamofascists. All to make a point.

Hope that's OK with you.

Obdicut and I stuck up for you-

534 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:43:56pm

re: #531 MandyManners

He's from Hawaii.

he's from.....Kenya!

535 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:45:19pm

re: #530 MandyManners

It was more than that. He said that we should not eat as we do, use gas as we do, heat/cool our homes as we do because they are not in line with the rest of the world.

Everything in moderation - HEAVEN FORFEND!!!!!!!!!!

536 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:45:29pm

re: #508 MandyManners

Have you made that appointment with your salon yet?

*rrriiippp*

You know that waxing for men has a different connotation then for women. At least men over a certain age.
[Link: www.handlebarclub.co.uk...]

537 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:45:38pm

re: #524 albusteve

beats me...who cares?...whatever they think has no effect on me, other than maybe a passing opinion...but what's Mandy have to do with them?

Just wondering when and where Obama said we can't eat what we want. To think that's true is irrational.

538 Mocking Jay  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:47:41pm

re: #531 MandyManners

He's from Hawaii.

He lived in Chicago from '85 onward. How high do you set the bar?

539 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:48:52pm

re: #530 MandyManners

It was more than that. He said that we should not eat as we do, use gas as we do, heat/cool our homes as we do because they are not in line with the rest of the world.

You should take a look at his inaugural address. "We will not apologize to the rest of the world for our way of life."

Since we are the fattest nation in the history of the world, is he off base to suggest we consume less?

As for energy use, no recent president has suggested that conservation is a bad idea.

But the notion that he's "trying to control all aspects of our lives" or "make us into Europe" is hyperventilating Beck/dittohead talk.

540 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:49:41pm

re: #533 Aceofwhat?

Obdicut and I stuck up for you-

I was registered for a while and posted some stupid thing on a fast thread...later out of the Blue, Cato comes roaring down the thread right staright at me....smash!...he ripped me good for something and I couldn't even remember what...I had on my armor but I was laughing so hard thinking this guys a fucking nut!....speaking in tongues and citing mythical shit...I loved Cato ever since....hi Cato!

541 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:51:06pm

re: #537 palomino

Just wondering when and where Obama said we can't eat what we want. To think that's true is irrational.

why couldn't it be true?....I'm pretty sure he said it, but rather than ignore the point you may procede

542 jamesfirecat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:51:37pm

re: #315 Shiplord Kirel

Terreblanche's AWB has a very prominent role in the Harry Turtledove sf novel Guns of the South that we were discussing a couple of threads ago.

*spoiler*

It is none other than the AWB that steals a time machine and starts sending modern small arms, mostly AK-47s, to Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. In the book, AWB stands for "America Will Break" rather than "Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging" but there is enough detail on the time travelers to make the connection obvious.

Heck I always thought they just told Lee that AWB stood for "America Will Break" because they had all this gear with the "company" logo on it, Lee finds books on the "Afrikaner Resistance Movement" so it is the same guys...

Then Lee manages to blow up their time machine and capture the bastards who tried to turn his nation (he's the president at that point) into their personal play ground!

Truly if ever there is a book to make one cheer for Robert E. Lee that is it...

543 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:52:32pm

re: #540 albusteve

I was registered for a while and posted some stupid thing on a fast thread...later out of the Blue, Cato comes roaring down the thread right staright at me...smash!...he ripped me good for something and I couldn't even remember what...I had on my armor but I was laughing so hard thinking this guys a fucking nut!...speaking in tongues and citing mythical shit...I loved Cato ever since...hi Cato!

indeed. i have much affection for those who have no tolerance for vacuity, wherever it may be found.

Oh, and by the way, I keep seeing Leon Lett replays today because of the stadium demolition...i laugh every time...silly cowboys...

544 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:53:02pm

re: #532 wozzablog

hmmm... teh google says he eats pizza, taco's, chicken, cheesesteaks... if he was telling people they should never eat such things that would make him a hypocrite...

if he told people they should eat them as part of a balanced diet he's a freaking 3rd grade studies teacher...

either way - hiss!!!1 boo!!!111!!!111

He never "told" anybody what to eat. He suggested that a country with skyrocketing obesity rate--the highest in the world--should think twice about their diets.

And he smokes an occasional cigarette! More proof he's the devil.///////

545 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:54:14pm

re: #544 palomino

He never "told" anybody what to eat. He suggested that a country with skyrocketing obesity rate--the highest in the world--should think twice about their diets.

And he smokes an occasional cigarette! More proof he's the devil.///


OH-NOES!!!!!!!!!

*runs around screaming*

think of the children................won't somebody please think of the children!!!11!!!!!111!!!!11111

546 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:54:32pm

re: #541 albusteve

why couldn't it be true?...I'm pretty sure he said it, but rather than ignore the point you may procede

You're "pretty" sure? That he said we CAN'T eat what we want.

Gotta link? Or just a feeling in your gut?

547 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:55:11pm

re: #543 Aceofwhat?

indeed. i have much affection for those who have no tolerance for vacuity, wherever it may be found.

Oh, and by the way, I keep seeing Leon Lett replays today because of the stadium demolition...i laugh every time...silly cowboys...

aren't those Five Rings a hoot tho!....probably the only mistake Leon ever made...he was a beast for several years

548 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:55:37pm

re: #534 albusteve

he's from...Kenya!

In Orly's dreams.

549 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:56:00pm

re: #535 wozzablog

Everything in moderation - HEAVEN FORFEND!!!

*rolls eyes*

550 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:56:26pm

re: #545 wozzablog

OH-NOES!!!

*runs around screaming*

think of the children...won't somebody please think of the children!!!11!!!111!!!11111

We're the FATTEST fucking country in the history of the planet. How dare he suggest we drop a few pounds, exercise, or eat less deep fried fat?

551 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:56:46pm

re: #536 Jeff In Ohio

You know that waxing for men has a different connotation then for women. At least men over a certain age.
[Link: www.handlebarclub.co.uk...]

I've always wanted to hang a beer mug on one of those 'staches!

552 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:56:54pm

re: #546 palomino

You're "pretty" sure? That he said we CAN'T eat what we want.

Gotta link? Or just a feeling in your gut?

actually if I had a link, I would not post it for you...you're ODS issues are boring...go find it yourself in the archives here...it was discussed a few times

553 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:57:23pm

re: #358 Macha

So if anyone here wants to continue to link Wiccans to Satan, or refer to Wiccan forms of worship in denigrating terms, you need to learn what Wicca is really about. It sure ain't devil worship.

Sigh. No, mostly it's not.

Mostly, it's a cobbled-together mishmash of silly stuff that the ancient peoples it supposedly comes from wouldn't recognize in their wildest dreams.

NTTAWWT.

554 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:57:43pm

re: #552 albusteve

actually if I had a link, I would not post it for you...you're ODS issues are boring...go find it yourself in the archives here...it was discussed a few times

In other words, you don't have a link, and he didn't say what you're suggesting. Gotcha.

555 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:58:01pm

re: #538 JasonA

He lived in Chicago from '85 onward. How high do you set the bar?

I move out of Tennessee long before then. I still consider my home to be there.

And, what's the problem with being from Hawaii?! It's a lovely state.

556 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:58:50pm

re: #544 palomino

He never "told" anybody what to eat. He suggested that a country with skyrocketing obesity rate--the highest in the world--should think twice about their diets.

And he smokes an occasional cigarette! More proof he's the devil.///

occasional cigarette?....got a link for that?....how do you know how much he smokes and where did you learn it?

557 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:59:28pm

If you can't say something nice, ...

558 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:59:36pm

re: #547 albusteve

aren't those Five Rings a hoot tho!...probably the only mistake Leon ever made...he was a beast for several years

eh, i don't really hate them that much. mostly i think that Emmett was overrated because of the monster O-line...put Barry Sanders in Dallas and put Emmett in Detroit and there would be no debate about who the greatest running back in the world was...

559 jamesfirecat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 5:59:48pm

re: #550 palomino

We're the FATTEST fucking country in the history of the planet. How dare he suggest we drop a few pounds, exercise, or eat less deep fried fat?

And how dare he do it while looking so much thinner than the rest of us!

Image: barack-obama-shirtless_448x629.jpg

I hope I look that good when I'm old enough to be President....

560 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:00:14pm

re: #557 MandyManners

If you can't say something nice, ...

...go piss up a rope?

561 Jadespring  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:00:24pm

re: #500 darthstar

My smiley was a snark tag. I loved the show. Had a crush on Kotter's wife. thought Horshack was the funniest character on the planet. It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that Horshack was Jewish, and Epstein was a Puerto Rican with a Jewish name...then again, I grew up in a very rural area (where you were either Catholic, Baptist, or Presbyterian) and didn't realize my high school friend with the last name of Steinberg was Jewish until some time later in college.

The neighborhood where I grew up though majority caucasian and one sort of Christian set me up for some confusion in my early years. The only Jewish family I knew were spanish, from Mexico so in my elementary years I equated Jewish with Spanish. I remember seeing a bit of some World War II documentary that Dad was watching and thought that Hitler killed lots of spanish speaking people and lots of Mexicans that were in Germany for some reason. It wasn't until later years in school that I got that sorted out but not before at varying times thinking that Hebrew and Spanish were basically the same language and getting awfully confused at times in Sunday school. :D The Asian (Japanese) family in the neighborhood was Christian and the family from somewhere in the Middle East (Iran I think) were Buddhist. So for a time since I would hear things about middle Eastern people and that they were mostly Islamic, logically in my young mind Buddhism and Islam were the same and just must be the name in different languages.

562 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:00:43pm

My goodness. It wasn't about weight or anything else that specific. It was about Americans being Americans.

563 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:00:52pm

re: #553 Cato the Elder

Sigh. No, mostly it's not.

Mostly, it's a cobbled-together mishmash of silly stuff that the ancient peoples it supposedly comes from wouldn't recognize in their wildest dreams.

NTTAWWT.

dammit, i don't know if that was offensive or not, but that was fucking hilarious.

564 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:01:01pm

re: #556 albusteve

occasional cigarette?...got a link for that?...how do you know how much he smokes and where did you learn it?

Do you actually remember him saying something to the effect that Americans CANNOT eat what they want any longer?

Isn't it likely he just suggested that people in the world's fattest country SHOULD watch what they eat? That there was no coercion involved?

565 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:02:38pm

re: #554 palomino

In other words, you don't have a link, and he didn't say what you're suggesting. Gotcha.

I found a link in 30seconds....so can you

566 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:02:43pm

re: #562 MandyManners

My goodness. It wasn't about weight or anything else that specific. It was about Americans being Americans.

And in his inaugural address, he specifically said we will not apologize to the rest of the world for our way of life. In other words, he echoed your point about Americans being Americans.

567 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:03:39pm

re: #549 MandyManners

*rolls eyes*


Oh, believe me, i understand.

I mean, what could possibly be worse than a leader recognising the need to conserve the earths resources, the need to innovate to extend the life of what we have, the need to create new technologies and also pointing out that (on the whole) the nations eating habits are not all they could be.

I feel for you, i really do - it must be rough living under that kind of totalitarianism.

568 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:04:21pm

re: #558 Aceofwhat?

eh, i don't really hate them that much. mostly i think that Emmett was overrated because of the monster O-line...put Barry Sanders in Dallas and put Emmett in Detroit and there would be no debate about who the greatest running back in the world was...

football has a fantasy league...maybe you should join it....Barry Sanders, regardless of his talent was a real jerk and not a team guy....you can keep him

569 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:05:23pm

re: #564 palomino

Do you actually remember him saying something to the effect that Americans CANNOT eat what they want any longer?

Isn't it likely he just suggested that people in the world's fattest country SHOULD watch what they eat? That there was no coercion involved?

answer my question, I was pleasant enough to answer yours after all

570 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:05:29pm

re: #565 albusteve

I found a link in 30seconds...so can you

But all he said was a suggestion that giant blubbering whales eat less. He never said anything about banning unhealthy food.

If he had Mickey D's would have gone apeshit.

571 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:06:13pm

re: #569 albusteve

answer my question, I was pleasant enough to answer yours after all

yeah, it says you're wrong.

572 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:06:15pm

re: #562 MandyManners

America is more than the sum of:

opposition to solar panels
driving single digit mpg SUV's with one occupant on the highways
eaing mcdonalds type food for every meal


if questioning those aspects of the national charachter amounts (in your eyes) to an absolute repuditation of the American charachter, it does not speak well for what you think is the sum total of the American Charachter.

573 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:06:25pm

re: #568 albusteve

football has a fantasy league...maybe you should join it...Barry Sanders, regardless of his talent was a real jerk and not a team guy...you can keep him

boo. you never saw him acting immaturely on the field or drawing attention to himself. i call bullshit. i'm not really worked up about it, but you wanted Barry on your team.

574 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:09:09pm

re: #570 palomino

But all he said was a suggestion that giant blubbering whales eat less. He never said anything about banning unhealthy food.

If he had Mickey D's would have gone apeshit.

you didn't do a search did you...you are starting to look sorta foolish here....and how did you learn his smoking habits?

575 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:10:48pm

re: #574 albusteve

you didn't do a search did you...you are starting to look sorta foolish here...and how did you learn his smoking habits?

looked at teh google. as usual it contradicts your assertions. what else is new?

576 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:12:34pm

re: #574 albusteve

I'd call this occasional............


june 2009

At his press conference this afternoon, President Obama, who calls himself a "former smoker," acknowledged that he still occasionally falls "off the wagon."

The president said that he does not smoke in front of his kids or the rest of his family, and compared his situation to that of a recovering alcoholic.

"I've said before that as a former smoker I constantly struggle with it," the president said. "Have I fallen off the wagon sometimes? Yes. Am I a daily smoker, a constant smoker? No."

"I would say that I am 95 percent cured, but there are times where, there are times where I mess up," he added.

577 bratwurst  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:13:22pm

Insults directed toward "progs", "poodles" or "ankle biters" in 5...4...3...2...

578 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:14:08pm

re: #576 wozzablog

I'd call this occasional...

june 2009

everybody lies about their smoking habits when they become POTUS....hahaha!
he's a walking contradiction

579 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:15:05pm

re: #574 albusteve

you didn't do a search did you...you are starting to look sorta foolish here...and how did you learn his smoking habits?

keep looking...his stupid remarks created quite a stir as I recall

580 jamesfirecat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:15:46pm

re: #577 bratwurst

Insults directed toward "progs", "poodles" or "ankle biters" in 5...4...3...2...

From now on whenever I see someone say "progs" I'll respond with the following...

"PROGZ IZ MADE FAH TAXIN' AND SPENDIN!"

581 palomino  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:16:12pm

re: #579 albusteve

keep looking...his stupid remarks created quite a stir as I recall

Who ever said he didn't smoke occasionally? And who cares if he does?

Total non-issue, nontroversy.

582 albusteve  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:22:44pm

re: #581 palomino

Who ever said he didn't smoke occasionally? And who cares if he does?

Total non-issue, nontroversy.

you brought it up to illustrate a point....read what he says....I'm a reformed smoker, then, I'm a daily smoker, so how can he be both?....the guy is just plain deceitful...but I noticed even so, you didn't have a link....you don't know what his habits are....it's supposed to be an object lesson for you, but you don't get it....and keep looking for the food quote....it's there, he said it

583 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:27:16pm

re: #582 albusteve

Michelle Obama: You Can’t Mandate Healthy Eating

but i guess she's off message then.......

584 Macha  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:28:22pm

re: #527 Cato the Elder

I won't care if you are accurate in your rips, but somehow I get the feeling that my opinion won't matter when the time comes.

585 Decatur Deb  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:31:50pm

re: #539 palomino

You should take a look at his inaugural address. "We will not apologize to the rest of the world for our way of life."

Since we are the fattest nation in the history of the world, is he off base to suggest we consume less?

As for energy use, no recent president has suggested that conservation is a bad idea.

But the notion that he's "trying to control all aspects of our lives" or "make us into Europe" is hyperventilating Beck/dittohead talk.

If he's turning us into Europe, I want Alabama to be Northern Italy.

586 windsagio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:33:45pm

re: #584 Macha

Lets make it driveby worse.

It sucks to have your religion be called into question by someone, trust me I know. The thing is, if you come on as strident as you have in this thread, you're just begging for trouble.

This is true of Christians, Muslims, Atheists, you name it.

If I were a proponent of Wicca I'd be especially careful to be reasonable and not have a chip on my shoulder... You have to know how people look at your faith.

587 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:34:36pm

re: #585 Decatur Deb

get ready for Soccer to become the national game............. (curse europeans like me and their love of the game of football played with their feet)


/

588 jamesfirecat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:36:13pm

re: #586 windsagio

Lets make it driveby worse.

It sucks to have your religion be called into question by someone, trust me I know. The thing is, if you come on as strident as you have in this thread, you're just begging for trouble.

This is true of Christians, Muslims, Atheists, you name it.

If I were a proponent of Wicca I'd be especially careful to be reasonable and not have a chip on my shoulder... You have to know how people look at your faith.

Atheism is not a religion. It is simply the rejection of that which can not be proven.

Your point is well meaning but it deserves to be said.

589 windsagio  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:38:05pm

re: #588 jamesfirecat

I put it in there intentionally, because I would deny Atheist exceptionalism. Unfortunately I have to bail so we'll have to have that out some other day.

590 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:38:28pm

i'm heading off.

laters all.

591 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:40:10pm

re: #584 Macha

I won't care if you are accurate in your rips, but somehow I get the feeling that my opinion won't matter when the time comes.

Oh, please.

You're more than welcome here, and you're more than more than welcome to rip on my rips.

Just don't whinge about how your particular belief system (and I believe I'm correct in my belief that it is in no way officially codified - there are at least as many flavors of Wicca as there are of Christianity, or will be, given time, and some of them are at daggers drawn with each other) is being singled out for particular harsh treatment here.

I'm a Catholic, myself, and I've seen things directed at my faith on this blog that would make a hobbit's toe-hairs curl. (Tolkien was a Catholic, you know.)

Same goes for everyone else.

En garde!

592 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:44:33pm

re: #587 wozzablog

get ready for Soccer to become the national game... (curse europeans like me and their love of the game of football played with their feet)

/

eh. soccer is fun to play. it's excruciating to watch...

593 Macha  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:46:41pm

re: #553 Cato the Elder

Sigh. No, mostly it's not.

Mostly, it's a cobbled-together mishmash of silly stuff that the ancient peoples it supposedly comes from wouldn't recognize in their wildest dreams.

NTTAWWT.

No mostly about it. Satan is a concept that comes out of the Abrahamic religions, primarily Christianity. It isn't a part of any Wiccan beliefs. You have a right to your opinion. Cobbled together, certainly. Mishmash and silly? I'd say that depends on the individual's experience of it. Coming from ancient peoples, hardly. It is a modern construct.
I don't know what NTTAWWT means, so didn't get the full impact of whatever you were trying to communicate.

594 jamesfirecat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:49:37pm

re: #593 Macha

No mostly about it. Satan is a concept that comes out of the Abrahamic religions, primarily Christianity. It isn't a part of any Wiccan beliefs. You have a right to your opinion. Cobbled together, certainly. Mishmash and silly? I'd say that depends on the individual's experience of it. Coming from ancient peoples, hardly. It is a modern construct.
I don't know what NTTAWWT means, so didn't get the full impact of whatever you were trying to communicate.

NTTAWWT is "Not That There's Anything Wrong With That" a phrase which is mostly used in reference to Signfield, where George and Jerry would follow up statements like "Now everybody is gonna think we're GAY!" "Not that there's anything wrong with that...." Where you're saying that despite possibly sounding offesnive you're not trying to mock the other perosn...

595 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:50:05pm

re: #592 Aceofwhat?

pssshhaw, there are some bad soccer games for sure, but baseball, cricket and american football have nothing on the experience of great football game.

it's technical, tactical, skillful - and fast moving - one break of fifteen minutes - the rest of the time there is no more than a few seconds when the ball is not in play.

596 jamesfirecat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:52:02pm

re: #595 wozzablog

pssshhaw, there are some bad soccer games for sure, but baseball, cricket and american football have nothing on the experience of great football game.

it's technical, tactical, skillful - and fast moving - one break of fifteen minutes - the rest of the time there is no more than a few seconds when the ball is not in play.

That's why Americans can't stand it... no time for commercial breaks...

597 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 6:53:57pm

re: #596 jamesfirecat

i couldnt possibly comment.

598 Boogberg  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 7:00:07pm

I think football (soccer) is becoming more popular here in the States. I'm seeing more of it on TV. I enjoy watching it occasionally. :)

599 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 7:02:22pm

re: #593 Macha

No mostly about it. Satan is a concept that comes out of the Abrahamic religions, primarily Christianity.

Right there, you show yourself to have no clue.

It isn't a part of any Wiccan beliefs.

So Wiccans have no concept of good vs. evil? Tell me another one.

You have a right to your opinion.

Thank you.

Cobbled together, certainly. Mishmash and silly? I'd say that depends on the individual's experience of it. Coming from ancient peoples, hardly. It is a modern construct.

Interesting. I've known a bunch of Wiccans, some of whom will tell you that their faith comes straight from the ancient Druids. They must have it all wrong, eh?

I don't know what NTTAWWT means, so didn't get the full impact of whatever you were trying to communicate.

Not That There's Anything Wrong With That.

I don't know you personally and would be happy to learn your brand of Wicca straight from you. And gladly wolde he lerne, and gladly teche.

Sit (Latin for "so mote it be".)

600 Macha  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 7:12:03pm

re: #586 windsagio

Lets make it driveby worse.

It sucks to have your religion be called into question by someone, trust me I know. The thing is, if you come on as strident as you have in this thread, you're just begging for trouble.

This is true of Christians, Muslims, Atheists, you name it.

If I were a proponent of Wicca I'd be especially careful to be reasonable and not have a chip on my shoulder... You have to know how people look at your faith.

I know you are right. I'm usually not strident about it. But I'm so damn tired of being linked to Satan I could spit. Believe me, there are plenty of opportunities to ridicule my faith with so many silly silly people who run around hooting to the universe that they are witches without having a clue. I guess I was mostly surprised that Cato made that remark. Of anyone here, I would have expected him to know that Wiccans and Satanists are not interchangeable, and that there is a serious side to Wicca. Apparently that is not the case. And you are right, I do know how people in general look at my faith. I like to think it stems mostly from attitudes perpetuated by many Christians, and the media, who exploit that false information for big bucks. As for being a proponent of Wicca, I'm not advocating or proselytizing. It is my personal choice made for my own reasons. As I said, the only thing I take umbrage with is linking Wicca to Satanism. And I appreciate your advice.

601 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 7:15:40pm

re: #600 Macha

Umm.

Just to make it absolutely clear - my original post was mockery of people who automagically link Wicca to Satanism. I was making fun of them. Not Wicca.

I can do that, if you want. But it wasn't the point.

602 Macha  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 7:39:40pm

re: #591 Cato the Elder

Well, I just wrote that you perhaps didn't know what you were talking about. I retract that. Perhaps you do. And perhaps I didn't catch on to your intent from the get go. Whatever the case, I think this donkey has been ridden far enough.

As to your prior experience with Wiccans, yes, there are people out there who do insist that the religion has been handed down from the Druids and other ancient sources. IMO, it hasn't, and I think any serious scholars in the field have pretty much shown that to be the case.

I don't think this is the appropriate forum to discuss the intricacies of my religion. If there is a way to contact you directly via email I'll be glad to answer any questions you might have and should you have any further interest, refer you to some serious authors on the subject.

603 jamesfirecat  Sun, Apr 11, 2010 8:13:37pm

re: #602 Macha

Well, I just wrote that you perhaps didn't know what you were talking about. I retract that. Perhaps you do. And perhaps I didn't catch on to your intent from the get go. Whatever the case, I think this donkey has been ridden far enough.

As to your prior experience with Wiccans, yes, there are people out there who do insist that the religion has been handed down from the Druids and other ancient sources. IMO, it hasn't, and I think any serious scholars in the field have pretty much shown that to be the case.

I don't think this is the appropriate forum to discuss the intricacies of my religion. If there is a way to contact you directly via email I'll be glad to answer any questions you might have and should you have any further interest, refer you to some serious authors on the subject.

You clearly don't grasp the wonder of LFG if you don't think this is an appropriate fourm to discuss the intricacies of any religion young hatchling.

604 ryannon  Mon, Apr 12, 2010 1:29:01am

re: #586 windsagio

Lets make it driveby worse.

It sucks to have your religion be called into question by someone, trust me I know. The thing is, if you come on as strident as you have in this thread, you're just begging for trouble.

This is true of Christians, Muslims, Atheists, you name it.

If I were a proponent of Wicca I'd be especially careful to be reasonable and not have a chip on my shoulder... You have to know how people look at your faith.

There used to be a guy here who was heavily into Mormonism. Nothing wrong in itself with that, but as I remember, it all ended pretty badly for him.

605 ryannon  Mon, Apr 12, 2010 2:26:30am

That said, I've got nothing against Wiccans - and look forward to learning more as time and threads go by....


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