CBS News-NYT Poll on the Politics of Tea

Politics • Views: 3,439

CBS News and the New York Times took a poll of Tea Party Supporters: Who They Are and What They Believe. As with all polls, both pro- and anti-tea people will find things to support their arguments. I haven’t made any secret of how I feel about the tea party movement: I think it’s a deeply divisive and destructive political movement based on unfocused populist rage ginned up by cynical astroturfers, Fox News, and leaders who are often crazier than the followers, and I see nothing here that will change my mind.

Obama Derangement Syndrome is endemic:

Ninety-two percent of Tea Party supporters believe President Obama’s policies are moving the country toward socialism. Fifty-two percent of Americans overall share that belief.

There’s a disturbing amount of support for Birtherism (and other conspiracy theories, such as the “sekrit Moslem” theory), which will come as no surprise to anyone who’s followed this movement.

Thirty percent of Tea Party supporters believe Mr. Obama was born in another country, despite ample evidence to the contrary. Another 29 percent say they don’t know.

If you’re looking for coherent ideologies, forget it. Besides Birtherism, the poll highlights several other points at which the tea party crowd seems seriously reality-challenged. They can’t define what they mean by “socialism,” even though almost all of them are convinced we’re heading towards it. They’re angrily opposed to the health care reform bill, but they say entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost. They’re an anti-tax movement but most of them think their taxes are fair. Two thirds of them think global warming is a hoax perpetrated by mad scientists out to trick the world.

And the two most popular political-media figures with the tea-heads: Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck.

Here are the full crosstabs at the New York Times: New York Times/CBS News Poll: National Survey of Tea Party Supporters.

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134 comments
1 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:29:32am

Nice hat.

2 zora  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:31:22am

re: #1 Killgore Trout

wonder why someone would call these people teabaggers? they must have gotten it from somewhere?
//

3 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:32:25am

Fresh Birthers at today’s Tea Party in DC: Here, here and here.

4 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:33:16am

Breaking news:

Glenn Beck falls off beer wagon, rolls around on floor of convenience store.

6 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:36:48am

re: #3 Killgore Trout

Fresh Birthers at today’s Tea Party in DC: Here, here and here.

“Go back to Kenya” is flat-out racist.

7 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:38:05am

The Atlanta Tea Party is setting up now. Traffic has been blocked around the Capitol and the stage is set up on the steps. I have a lovely view of the festivities from my office window.

Before anyone asks I’m not going to report from the Tea Party – in fact I hope to be well out of town before the crowds reach critical mass. I had some business in the Capitol today but I think I’ll reschedule for tomorrow.

I wonder if the No Taxes Ever crowd understands how much this event is costing the taxpayers of Atlanta and the State of Georgia? I’m guessing a lot for extra security not to mention the street closures and venue set-up.

On an interesting side note Freaknik (a.k.a. Black Spring Break) is back in the ATL after an extended absence. It should be very entertaining to see the two crowds converge at the 5-Points MARTA station on the way home from work. With a little luck we will see some heads exploding (figuratively not literally).

Of the two impending human disasters calculating who will have the largest positive/negative economic impact on the local economy would be fun. Freaknik has a larger potential for traffic stoppage and damage but the students spend their money on Alcohol and Gasoline.

8 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:38:32am

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Live Tea Party speech railing against the Department of Education

Tea Party Express is the GOP astroturf group. Some of the Paulian kooks are angry at them for muscling in.

9 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:38:47am

re: #6 Charles

“Go back to Kenya” is flat-out racist.

Also, that’s not a homemade sign. That’s purchased merchandise sold at Tea Parties.

10 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:39:34am

If they were smart they’d start the Starbucks Party and have ready made outlets on every street corner. Tea is just sooooo English.

11 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:39:46am

re: #9 Killgore Trout

Also, that’s not a homemade sign. That’s purchased merchandise sold at Tea Parties.

Wow… never have I seen such a good analogy for how the Tea Parties are mass produced populist rage….

12 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:40:17am

re: #3 Killgore Trout

It’s going to be interesting to see what is on display at the TP gathering I am going to this afternoon. I’m taking my camera so I can get some pics of any really off the wall signs,ect. Though here is a surprise.

Rep. Walt Minnick snags unasked-for Tea Party endorsement

He’s a Democrat.

13 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:41:10am

Springboro Tea Party leader now accused of threatening woman

Whenever a conservative says something racist or sexist or whatever, I’m not surprised at all anymore. It’s just gotten to the point for me where I’m starting to expect that that is indeed how conservatives think and that most of them just aren’t saying it because they’re afraid of being labeled racists or whatever.

Is it fair for me to make that sort of generalization? Probably not. But, and maybe this is my cynical side talking, everyone seems to be full of shit. What’s the conservative flavor of shit? It’s constantly being shoved in my face that their flavor is racism, sexism, homophobia and religious fanaticism. Are these all unfair stereotypes of conservatives? Likely. But I’m constantly exposed to it. It’s unending.

/end rant

14 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:41:46am

re: #12 Bubblehead II

That’s interesting. I think that’s probably the first Democrat they’ve endorsed.

15 jc717  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:42:04am

Only 1% of TP folks approve of Congress.
Obama is 7x more popular than Congress with the TPers.
Statistics/

16 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:43:13am

Sorry to go OT so early, but I just got an email from my mom.

She’s reading Wafa Sultan for her book group. It seems to have changed her mind somewhat regarding the Religion of Peace (a line which she bought from Karen Armstrong years ago hook, wiggly worm, and sinker).

She just sent me this picture.

Quite safe for work, unless you’re in an al Qaeda bomb-making sweatshop.

17 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:44:58am

Teabonics! (And a genuine tin foil hat.)

18 Kragar  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:45:07am
19 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:45:56am

“Citizens for Tax Justice, a self-described non-partisan organization, released a report on Tuesday that read: ‘The 2009 economic stimulus bill actually reduced federal income taxes for tax year 2009 for 98 percent of all working families and individuals.’ This total includes the 95 percent of working families that will or have received tax credits in the range of $400 to $800.”

“In a recent poll NYT/CBS News poll of Tea Party protesters, however, only 12 percent of respondents thought their taxes had gone down.”

For a political party to not know anything about the very thing they’re named after, it doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence in their intellectual acuity.

20 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:46:40am

re: #13 beekiller

so you’re literally saying your shit doesn’t stink?

21 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:47:28am
22 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:47:38am

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Peter Steele, Type O Negative Singer, Has Died

Hey- I’m type O negative?!

“Peter passed away last night. As of now it appears to have been heart failure. That’s all the details we have right now.”

Sadly when I hear that about a rock star or actor my mind immediately goes to Cocaine abuse. (24 hour rule I know)

23 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:48:26am

re: #17 Charles

they’re missing the boat. gold foil. it protects teh brane AND it’s an investment…they need to watch more Beck.

24 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:48:39am

re: #20 Aceofwhat?

so you’re literally saying your shit doesn’t stink?

I’m literally saying I’m not a racist and I’m not saying that YOU are either.

25 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:48:52am

re: #22 DaddyG

Hey- I’m type O negative?!

“Peter passed away last night. As of now it appears to have been heart failure. That’s all the details we have right now.”

Sadly when I hear that about a rock star or actor my mind immediately goes to Cocaine abuse. (24 hour rule I know)

When I see the words “passed away” my mind immediately rejects the euphemism.

26 TheGuy  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:49:16am

Any reports of “Real” TPers fighting with “Fake” TPers? Anchor Baby has signs on her site to stick on “Fake” TPers.

27 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:49:23am
28 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:49:24am

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Peter Steele, Type O Negative Singer, Has Died

That guy had the one of the coolest voices in rock.

29 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:49:31am

re: #13 beekiller

Springboro Tea Party leader now accused of threatening woman

Whenever a conservative says something racist or sexist or whatever, I’m not surprised at all anymore. It’s just gotten to the point for me where I’m starting to expect that that is indeed how conservatives think and that most of them just aren’t saying it because they’re afraid of being labeled racists or whatever.

Is it fair for me to make that sort of generalization? Probably not. But, and maybe this is my cynical side talking, everyone seems to be full of shit. What’s the conservative flavor of shit? It’s constantly being shoved in my face that their flavor is racism, sexism, homophobia and religious fanaticism. Are these all unfair stereotypes of conservatives? Likely. But I’m constantly exposed to it. It’s unending.

/end rant

At least it was honest of you to admit that all of us are full of shit. Welcome to the club.

30 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:50:53am

re: #24 beekiller

I’m literally saying I’m not a racist and I’m not saying that YOU are either.

No you’re not, you said it yourself… “everyone seems to be full of shit.” That’s exactly what you are saying.

31 soap_man  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:51:21am

re: #13 beekiller

Springboro Tea Party leader now accused of threatening woman

Whenever a conservative says something racist or sexist or whatever, I’m not surprised at all anymore. It’s just gotten to the point for me where I’m starting to expect that that is indeed how conservatives think and that most of them just aren’t saying it because they’re afraid of being labeled racists or whatever.

Is it fair for me to make that sort of generalization? Probably not. But, and maybe this is my cynical side talking, everyone seems to be full of shit. What’s the conservative flavor of shit? It’s constantly being shoved in my face that their flavor is racism, sexism, homophobia and religious fanaticism. Are these all unfair stereotypes of conservatives? Likely. But I’m constantly exposed to it. It’s unending.

/end rant

Is it okay to stereotype when one admits they are stereotyping? The classic “I know I’m also guilty of [fill in the blank] but those people are assholes for [fill in the blank].”

Hmmm…..

32 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:51:31am

re: #28 Sigma_x

That guy had the one of the coolest voices in rock.

And he was a servant of Satan.

33 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:51:54am

Downdings all around for literally misusing the word “literally”.

34 badger1970  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:52:11am

re: #19 Sigma_x

CTJ’s Mission statement.


Citizens for Tax Justice, founded in 1979, is a 501 (c)(4) public interest research and advocacy organization focusing on federal, state and local tax policies and their impact upon our nation. CTJ’s mission is to give ordinary people a greater voice in the development of tax laws. Against the armies of special interest lobbyists for corporations and the wealthy, CTJ fights for:

* Fair taxes for middle and low-income families
* Requiring the wealthy to pay their fair share
* Closing corporate tax loopholes
* Adequately funding important government services
* Reducing the federal debt
* Taxation that minimizes distortion of economic markets

35 TheGuy  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:52:34am

re: #28 Sigma_x

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

wrote some great songs for strippers to use also

36 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:52:49am

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

And he was a servant of Satan.

Well, be that as it may.

I don’t believe in Satan, anyway. And if he did, then he was an ass. An ass with a great voice, but an ass nonetheless.

37 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:52:50am

re: #30 Walter L. Newton

No you’re not, you said it yourself… “everyone seems to be full of shit.” That’s exactly what you are saying.

Colon cleansing- there’s a future there. //

38 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:53:37am

re: #33 Cato the Elder

Downdings all around for literally misusing the word “literally”.

i meant it. but as an aside, it’s literally used far to often in lieu of “figuratively”.

39 Kragar  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:54:00am

re: #36 Sigma_x

Well, be that as it may.

I don’t believe in Satan, anyway. And if he did, then he was an ass. An ass with a great voice, but an ass nonetheless.

If I quit listening to a singer because he was an ass, well, I would have a pretty small CD collection.

40 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:54:12am

re: #36 Sigma_x

Well, be that as it may.

I don’t believe in Satan, anyway. And if he did, then he was an ass. An ass with a great voice, but an ass nonetheless.

Satan, Satan, Satan, Satan, Satan… you can’t make him go away just be disbelief… repent… or else your soul will be owned by the servant in the house.

(let’s see how acute he is?)

41 jc717  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:54:51am

Another interesting tidbit from the poll:
Only 40% of them think that Palin would make an effective president.

42 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:54:53am

re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If I quit listening to a singer because he was an ass, well, I would have a pretty small CD collection.

You like watching Mel Gibson?

43 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:54:56am

re: #38 Aceofwhat?

i meant it. but as an aside, it’s literally used far toO often in lieu of “figuratively”.

heh. pimf in a syntax post…fugly.

44 Kragar  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:56:02am

re: #42 Walter L. Newton

You like watching Mel Gibson?

Well, he could drive that tanker.

45 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:56:08am

re: #38 Aceofwhat?

i meant it. but as an aside, it’s literally used far to often in lieu of “figuratively”.

You may have meant it, but what you said he said is literally not what he said.

46 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:57:24am

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

Satan, Satan, Satan, Satan, Satan… you can’t make him go away just be disbelief… repent… or else your soul will be owned by the servant in the house.

(let’s see how acute he is?)

I’m going to assume you’re joking.

47 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:57:34am

re: #30 Walter L. Newton

No you’re not, you said it yourself… “everyone seems to be full of shit.” That’s exactly what you are saying.

my cynical side talking is what I meant by that. I live in the south and the things I am exposed to aren’t just events and articles published around the country but said in front of me everyday by family member, friends and co-workers.

48 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:57:57am

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

WHAT!?!!

I LOVE their cover for ‘Cinnamon Girl’.

R.I.P.

49 Soap_Man  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:58:01am

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

Satan, Satan, Satan, Satan, Satan… you can’t make him go away just be disbelief… repent… or else your soul will be owned by the servant in the house.

(let’s see how acute he is?)

I hate to go off topic so early, but fuck it, I’ll do it anyway.

Just watched LOST. {SPOILER ALERT} I can’t wrap my head around why Desmond would hit Locke with his car. I’m guessing he thought Smokey was Locke and was getting revenge for what happened in the parallel universe. But what exactly would that accomplish? Des is a reasonable guy. It doesn’t seem like he would do something so rash when there is nothing to gain from it. Hitting Locke with his car wont help him on the island…

Since you are our resident LOST expert, I was wondering if you had a theory.

50 Kragar  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:59:25am

re: #49 Soap_Man

I hate to go off topic so early, but fuck it, I’ll do it anyway.

Just watched LOST. {SPOILER ALERT} I can’t wrap my head around why Desmond would hit Locke with his car. I’m guessing he thought Smokey was Locke and was getting revenge for what happened in the parallel universe. But what exactly would that accomplish? Des is a reasonable guy. It doesn’t seem like he would do something so rash when there is nothing to gain from it. Hitting Locke with his car wont help him on the island…

Since you are our resident LOST expert, I was wondering if you had a theory.

I know exactly why he did it.

51 darthstar  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:59:31am

Someone should go around that tea party with a camera and ask individuals protesting if they got a refund this year. That’s it…a yes or no question: Did you get a refund?
If they say yes, then the obvious follow-up would be, “So, this is just about the black guy, right?”

52 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 9:59:52am

I’m musing over some labels for the Tea Party x Freaknik convergence this week in Atlanta. My candidates so far…

Tea Bangers
Pimps, Hos and Other Conservative Activists
Prep Dawg Fest
Whaddya Have, Whaddidya Say, Whaddya Lookin at? (Varsity Inside Joke)
Cognitive Dissonance Convergence

feel free to add your ideas…

53 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:00:07am

re: #47 beekiller

my cynical side talking is what I meant by that. I live in the south and the things I am exposed to aren’t just events and articles published around the country but said in front of me everyday by family member, friends and co-workers.

Well, this is my logical side talking… everyone is not full of shit, and it’s insulting that you use your cynical side to broad brush with a statement like that… a statement that certainly in your cynical mind includes ALL conservatives (since that was your subject) and possibly ALL people in general who don’t think like you.

54 Soap_Man  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:00:13am

re: #50 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I know exactly why he did it.

Please share. I’ve been scratching my head….

55 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:00:22am

re: #48 Oh no…Sand People!

Remember the first time seeing them, they opened for Pantera on the ‘Far Beyond Driven’ Tour. The guy towered.

56 darthstar  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:01:19am

re: #21 Charles

A bit defensive about racism?

Ugh…I’m guessing he copied that from a twitter post.

57 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:01:19am

re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If I quit listening to a singer because he was an ass, well, I would have a pretty small CD collection.


Some people have completely ruined my ability to suspend disbelief in the movie theater and enjoy their performances without their public image glaring through.

Yeah Tom Cruise and Sean Penn - I’m talking about you.

58 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:01:35am

That woman in the featured photo, by the way, looks like she’s wearing lots of little doggy colostomy bags on her head. Used ones.

59 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:01:46am

re: #45 Cato the Elder

You may have meant it, but what you said he said is literally not what he said.

i thought it is actually what they (he…she…i think he but i’m not sure) said. ‘Literally’ is defined as ‘word for word’ or ‘actually’, and is often misused in lieu of ‘figuratively’ or ‘virtually’.

I didn’t think they were virtually saying their shit didn’t stink…i thought they were ‘actually’ saying it. It may not have been what they intended to say, but it’s what I thought they actually said.

60 garhighway  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:01:53am

re: #34 badger1970

CTJ’s Mission statement.

Then obviously they’re commies.

/

61 Right Brain  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:02:34am

What was salient in the New York Times /CBS poll was that they found the Tea Party supporters were more educated than the general American public. To the New York Times’ credit this feature was the headline and cover story of their main edition this morning with the title “Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated”

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

The NY Times can bring themselves to admit this higher education among the Tea Party supporters, will this site?

62 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:02:42am

re: #52 DaddyG

I’m musing over some labels for the Tea Party x Freaknik convergence this week in Atlanta. My candidates so far…

Tea Bangers
Pimps, Hos and Other Conservative Activists
Prep Dawg Fest
Whaddya Have, Whaddidya Say, Whaddya Lookin at? (Varsity Inside Joke)
Cognitive Dissonance Convergence

feel free to add your ideas…

Palestock (because there are a lot of white people there) better yet, Palinstock?

63 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:02:55am

re: #49 Soap_Man
All of my LOST theories involve Marijuana abuse at script writing sessions. Frankly I think that is the reason behind many contemporary TV shows.

64 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:03:02am

re: #6 Charles

“Go back to Kenya” is flat-out racist.


Seems to be a lot of that going around.

65 Kragar  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:03:16am

re: #54 Soap_Man

Please share. I’ve been scratching my head…

It was in the script. TA-DA!

66 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:03:59am

So far, it looks like they’re having attendance issues at this rally in D.C.

The funny thing is is that FOX is barely coving it. I guess they’ll just use images from another earlier, well-attended rally when they report on it later in the day, and say that 5 million people showed up.

67 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:04:00am

re: #59 Aceofwhat?

i thought it is actually what they (he…she…i think he but i’m not sure) said. ‘Literally’ is defined as ‘word for word’ or ‘actually’, and is often misused in lieu of ‘figuratively’ or ‘virtually’.

I didn’t think they were virtually saying their shit didn’t stink…i thought they were ‘actually’ saying it. It may not have been what they intended to say, but it’s what I thought they actually said.

My oh my.

What someone literally says is the words he or she says. Not what you might think those words “actually” mean.

68 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:04:46am

re: #59 Aceofwhat?

Cato…rereading my post, i define ‘literally’ as what i believe it means but that could well read as if YOU require the definition. I apologize if it sounds lecturing; it is certainly not intended to read as if you need the lesson.

69 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:04:49am

re: #57 DaddyG

Some people have completely ruined my ability to suspend disbelief in the movie theater and enjoy their performances without their public image glaring through.

Yeah Tom Cruise and Sean Penn - I’m talking about you.

I’m like that with Mel Gibson too.

70 Soap_Man  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:04:55am

re: #65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It was in the script. TA-DA!

Hil-arious.

71 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:05:30am

re: #49 Soap_Man

I hate to go off topic so early, but fuck it, I’ll do it anyway.

Just watched LOST. {SPOILER ALERT} I can’t wrap my head around why Desmond would hit Locke with his car. I’m guessing he thought Smokey was Locke and was getting revenge for what happened in the parallel universe. But what exactly would that accomplish? Des is a reasonable guy. It doesn’t seem like he would do something so rash when there is nothing to gain from it. Hitting Locke with his car wont help him on the island…

Since you are our resident LOST expert, I was wondering if you had a theory.

Theories…

To start with, evidently Desmond now has a prescience as to what the two time lines hold, and what he needs to do… so…

1) The Locke in the flash sideways closed time-like loop needs a near-death experience to connect with the original closed time-like loop. Desmond connected a number of times, with both a near-death experience (the submerged car) and meeting his “constant” (soul mate Penny).

2) He needed to kill Locke so if the time lines come together, fake Locke will not have his “quantum pair” to re-entangle with.

3) The accelerator stuck :)

72 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:05:49am

re: #61 Right Brain

What was salient in the New York Times /CBS poll was that they found the Tea Party supporters were more educated than the general American public. To the New York Times’ credit this feature was the headline and cover story of their main edition this morning with the title “Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated”

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

The NY Times can bring themselves to admit this higher education among the Tea Party supporters, will this site?


That trend is true of active Democrat voters as well. I suspect there is a certain level of education involved in political activism. From the looks of some of the protestors that would be an average level not specific to all of them.

73 badger1970  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:05:51am

re: #60 garhighway

Just wanted to know if they could back their claim of non-partisan.

74 garhighway  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:06:12am

re: #61 Right Brain

What was salient in the New York Times /CBS poll was that they found the Tea Party supporters were more educated than the general American public. To the New York Times’ credit this feature was the headline and cover story of their main edition this morning with the title “Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated”

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

The NY Times can bring themselves to admit this higher education among the Tea Party supporters, will this site?

Could it be that the “backers” and the people that show up at these rallies with the goofy signs are not one and the same?

75 Kragar  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:06:56am

re: #70 Soap_Man

Hil-arious.

My wife hates it when I do that.

76 Right Brain  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:07:28am

re: #72 DaddyG

That trend is true of active Democrat voters as well. I suspect there is a certain level of education involved in political activism. From the looks of some of the protesters that would be an average level not specific to all of them.

re: #72 DaddyG

A reasonable response and supposition, I’ll buy that.

77 garhighway  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:08:02am

re: #73 badger1970

Just wanted to know if they could back their claim of non-partisan.

Well, you can certainly tell from that list of core beliefs that they won’t be on Grover Norquist’s Christmas card list.

78 Olsonist  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:08:07am

re: #73 badger1970

Just wanted to know if they could back their claim of non-partisan.

They’re about as non-partisan as they are non-racist.

79 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:08:13am

re: #67 Cato the Elder

My oh my.

What someone literally says is the words he or she says. Not what you might think those words “actually” mean.

If I am incorrect, then i am incorrect. However, the words actually mean something, i.e. they have a literal definition which can accurately include more than the original words uttered.

However, i applaud the spirit of your original post…we literally use ‘literally’ far too often.

80 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:08:53am

To Right Brains point- stereotyping protesters as uneducated or any other form of knuckle dragging primate misses the mark. The zeitgeist of LGF has been to point out the weird and evil on the part of conservatives lately but that doesn’t mean acceptance of the weird and evil on the left.

It just seems that the right is making more headlines these days with their protests- but that is typical of the “out of power” party.

81 Kragar  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:09:06am

re: #63 DaddyG

All of my LOST theories involve Marijuana abuse at script writing sessions. Frankly I think that is the reason behind many contemporary TV shows.

I miss Sifl and Olly too.

82 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:16:07am

re: #78 Olsonist

They’re about as non-partisan as they are non-racist.

good to hear that liberals get the racist tag too! i didn’t know that about CTJ, but i’ll keep it in mind.

83 Soap_Man  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:17:06am

re: #71 Walter L. Newton

Theories…

To start with, evidently Desmond now has a prescience as to what the two time lines hold, and what he needs to do… so…

1) The Locke in the flash sideways closed time-like loop needs a near-death experience to connect with the original closed time-like loop. Desmond connected a number of times, with both a near-death experience (the submerged car) and meeting his “constant” (soul mate Penny).

2) He needed to kill Locke so if the time lines come together, fake Locke will not have his “quantum pair” to re-entangle with.

3) The accelerator stuck :)

Hmmm, the first theory makes a lot of sense. Basically he’s “helping” Locke in the same way Charlie “helped” Desmond.

Thanks.

84 Olsonist  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:21:15am

re: #82 Aceofwhat?

I was thinking about the Tea Partiers rather than the CTJ crowd.

85 Blizard  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:21:56am

re: #61 Right Brain

What was salient in the New York Times /CBS poll was that they found the Tea Party supporters were more educated than the general American public. To the New York Times’ credit this feature was the headline and cover story of their main edition this morning with the title “Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated”

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

The NY Times can bring themselves to admit this higher education among the Tea Party supporters, will this site?

Yeah but did you read the article? They actually do a pretty good job of making them look stupid. Horrible headline, IMO.

86 Right Brain  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:23:03am

re: #80 DaddyG

Actually I was one of those surprised by the poll, given the general appearance of the Tea Party attendees and their grammatically and spelling challenged signs, I expected something different, I suppose a blue collar crowd with little formal education. On the other hand I derive part of my income writing art criticism and critical theory in NYC and find similar conclusions to the TP crowd among people who spent half their life in school.

87 allegro  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:24:03am

re: #85 Blizard

Yeah but did you read the article? They actually do a pretty good job of making them look stupid. Horrible headline, IMO.

Proves that a formal education doesn’t exclude the willful ignorance that is so supremely on display.

88 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:26:15am

re: #87 allegro

Proves that a formal education doesn’t exclude the willful ignorance that is so supremely on display.

indeed. college professors with pet conspiracy theories abound. people are best judged through their actions…

89 charlz  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:30:47am

re: #79 Aceofwhat?

If I am incorrect, then i am incorrect. However, the words actually mean something, i.e. they have a literal definition which can accurately include more than the original words uttered.

I think what CtE is getting at is that it was your opinion that the words actually meant something — objectively and literally that may or may not be true. My other pet peeve is the growing misuse of ‘officially’ as in “I’m officially peeved by the growing misuse of ‘officially’”

90 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:33:10am

re: #61 Right Brain

What was salient in the New York Times /CBS poll was that they found the Tea Party supporters were more educated than the general American public. To the New York Times’ credit this feature was the headline and cover story of their main edition this morning with the title “Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated”

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

The NY Times can bring themselves to admit this higher education among the Tea Party supporters, will this site?


How do we know those polled were being honest?

91 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:35:29am

re: #89 charlz

I think what CtE is getting at is that it was your opinion that the words actually meant something — objectively and literally that may or may not be true. My other pet peeve is the growing misuse of ‘officially’ as in “I’m officially peeved by the growing misuse of ‘officially’”

good stuff. my last point is that i asked, rather than asserted, about the literal meaning…although there was certainly a hint of rhetorical in the question!

either way, i literally intend to monitor my use of literally more closely-

92 allegro  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:38:02am
93 uncah91  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:39:02am

re: #79 Aceofwhat?

If I am incorrect, then i am incorrect. However, the words actually mean something, i.e. they have a literal definition which can accurately include more than the original words uttered.

However, i applaud the spirit of your original post…we literally use ‘literally’ far too often.

I think you are confusing “actually said” (literal) and “actually meant” (figurative.)

I also believe that the most common mistake is to use “literally” as an adjective to provide emphasis (synonymous with “very”) For example, a sports announcer saying he is “literally on fire!” instead of “very hot.” This is similar to the morph that the word “really” has gone through. ex: “Really on fire!” Of course there is nothing “real” about it.

94 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:39:06am

re: #92 allegro

“Don’t Violate my Constipational Rights!”

We gots a winnah!

Clearly a man who knows the dangers of government intruding where it was not meant to go. The last thing we need to imagine is IRS agents with rubber gloves.

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:39:21am

re: #61 Right Brain

What was salient in the New York Times /CBS poll was that they found the Tea Party supporters were more educated than the general American public. To the New York Times’ credit this feature was the headline and cover story of their main edition this morning with the title “Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated”

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

The NY Times can bring themselves to admit this higher education among the Tea Party supporters, will this site?

I’m perfectly happy to accept that the Tea Partiers appear to be a largely middle-class movement, financially well-set and with all the many advantages of modern American life.

As far as I’m concerned, this just underscores their general annoying qualities. These are very privileged people, who have no excuse for the crap they’re swallowing, except that the crap is a major ingredient in their martyr cookies.

96 American-African  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:43:12am

Why are we not hearing more about Koch Industries and the fact that they are funding a lot of these events while denying involvement. There is a reason they do not want their activities known.

97 windsagio  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:43:57am

re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist

Does it show age data in there anywhere? I looked some but couldn’t find it.

98 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:44:22am

re: #79 Aceofwhat?

If I am incorrect, then i am incorrect. However, the words actually mean something, i.e. they have a literal definition which can accurately include more than the original words uttered.

However, i applaud the spirit of your original post…we literally use ‘literally’ far too often.

I misused the word too in my rant. My wife(fiscal conservative-social liberal-registered republican-aka RINO) wasn’t offended by it and said that she could totally understand why people felt this way. She pointed out that I should have said Tea Party Movement instead. She feels they have tarnished the image of the republican party and have not been pro-active about rejecting racist supporters in the slightest. In fact, I have only seen that being done on this site by conservatives and by my own wife.

99 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:45:04am

re: #1 Killgore Trout

Nice hat.

Yeah.
I want it.
/

100 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:46:47am

re: #13 beekiller

Springboro Tea Party leader now accused of threatening woman

Whenever a conservative says something racist or sexist or whatever, I’m not surprised at all anymore. It’s just gotten to the point for me where I’m starting to expect that that is indeed how conservatives think and that most of them just aren’t saying it because they’re afraid of being labeled racists or whatever.

Is it fair for me to make that sort of generalization? Probably not. But, and maybe this is my cynical side talking, everyone seems to be full of shit. What’s the conservative flavor of shit? It’s constantly being shoved in my face that their flavor is racism, sexism, homophobia and religious fanaticism. Are these all unfair stereotypes of conservatives? Likely. But I’m constantly exposed to it. It’s unending.

/end rant

aw.
There’s some exposure to a few of us here - not completely unending, eh?

101 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:46:49am

re: #90 CarleeCork

How do we know those polled were being honest?

How do we know those polled in other similar polls were being honest? What this really goes to show is that the American public gets more years of schooling and gets less out of it than used to be the case. Nothing else can explain how so many people believe so many mutually contradictory things.

On the right: science is great, but climate science and evolution science is all a lie.

On the left: science is great, but nuclear scientists spin us fairy tales when they say current designs are safe.

On the right: the government is spending too much and the deficit is dangerous, but taxes should not be raised.

On the left: the government can spend as much as it likes, and never worry about deficits, but taxes should be raised.

On the right: socialism is bad, whatever it is.

On the left: if you don’t call it socialism, it isn’t.

On the right: we’re all Americans, but the Left is out to wreck everything.

On the left: we’re all Americans, but the Right is out to wreck everything.

Both sides: NASA accounts for 23% of the national budget, and foreign aid accounts for 30%, and if you add it up, various sectors of government spending account for 1400 percent of the national budget.

Both sides: nobody needs to know history, or science, or math, or geography. We’re so well educated such trivial pursuits are beneath us.

102 b_sharp  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:48:37am

re: #71 Walter L. Newton

Theories…

To start with, evidently Desmond now has a prescience as to what the two time lines hold, and what he needs to do… so…

1) The Locke in the flash sideways closed time-like loop needs a near-death experience to connect with the original closed time-like loop. Desmond connected a number of times, with both a near-death experience (the submerged car) and meeting his “constant” (soul mate Penny).

2) He needed to kill Locke so if the time lines come together, fake Locke will not have his “quantum pair” to re-entangle with.

3) The accelerator stuck :)

Who needs religion when you have Lost!

103 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:48:38am

re: #100 reine.de.tout

aw.
There’s some exposure to a few of us here - not completely unending, eh?

Good point. ;)

104 charlz  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:49:02am

re: #101 lostlakehiker

and if you add it up, various sectors of government spending account for 1400 percent of the national budget.

And that little Johnny is why we have a deficit!

105 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 10:51:26am

re: #101 lostlakehiker
I was only referring to questions about education level and income. I think people might be prone to “fibbing” a bit to make themselves look better.

106 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 11:31:05am

re: #90 CarleeCork

How do we know those polled were being honest?

I will confess that I don’t always answer poll questions correct, particularly if it’s a phone poll and I have a few minutes to waste on the phone.

107 alkmyst  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 11:43:48am

CBS-NYT Poll…

*rubs eyes*

Isn’t CBS the place where Dan Rather used to work?

108 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 11:50:57am

re: #107 alkmyst

CBS-NYT Poll…

*rubs eyes*

Isn’t CBS the place where Dan Rather used to work?

It is. Your point?

109 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 11:54:19am

I think it’s a deeply divisive and destructive political movement based on unfocused populist rage ginned up by cynical astroturfers, Fox News, and leaders who are often crazier than the followers, and I see nothing here that will change my mind.

Well said Charles, very succinct.

110 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 11:54:34am

The birther stuff is all garbage, I agree, but at what point does it become okay to use the word “socialist”? When the VAT tax is instituted? Some point later?

111 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 11:56:33am

re: #110 SteveB4

What on earth does VAT tax and socialism have to do with each other?

112 alkmyst  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 11:56:58am

Oh, nothing really, just a little surprised to see them quoted as legitimate news sources.
re: #108 Varek Raith

113 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 11:57:07am

re: #111 Obdicut

Are you being serious?

114 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 12:03:24pm

re: #113 SteveB4

Are you being serious?

Yes. Socialism is worker control of industries and profits.

What does VAT tax have to do with socialism?

115 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 12:12:49pm

re: #114 Obdicut

By my understanding, socialism is a system of social organization in which the means of production is centralized with the state. The more heavily taxed a country is, the more the money (power) is shifted away from the private sector to the state.

My question, again, is: how far along this spectrum must we shift before it is okay to use the word “socialism”? If you disagree that the institution of a VAT tax would be a good dividing line, then what would be?

116 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 12:18:08pm

re: #36 Sigma_x

Well, be that as it may.

I don’t believe in Satan, anyway. And if he did, then he was an ass. An ass with a great voice, but an ass nonetheless.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

In April 2007, Steele revealed that he began identifying himself as Roman Catholic in recent years, after decades of self-professed atheism.

117 uncah91  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 12:24:06pm

re: #115 SteveB4
Well, in a system where taxes are 100% of income, and therefore all needs are necessarily then provided by the state, you would have a de facto communist system. So in that sense a tax increase could be seen as a “move towards communism.” People seem to confuse communism and socialism, so I suppose it could also be seen as socialist. I take issue with this characterization, but, given that ‘s how you want to see it, I still don’t see how it applies in the case of a VAT.

A VAT tax doesn’t inherently increase the tax load, it just changes how taxes are paid. So if a small VAT tax was implemented, but income taxes went down as much or more, you’d have a lower tax burden, not a higher one.

118 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 12:26:16pm

re: #117 uncah91

re: #115 SteveB4
Well, in a system where taxes are 100% of income, and therefore all needs are necessarily then provided by the state, you would have a de facto communist system. So in that sense a tax increase could be seen as a “move towards communism.” People seem to confuse communism and socialism, so I suppose it could also be seen as socialist. I take issue with this characterization, but, given that ‘s how you want to see it, I still don’t see how it applies in the case of a VAT.

A VAT tax doesn’t inherently increase the tax load, it just changes how taxes are paid. So if a small VAT tax was implemented, but income taxes went down as much or more, you’d have a lower tax burden, not a higher one.

The speculation I’ve heard is that a VAT tax would be added on top of the income tax, it wouldn’t replace it.

119 simoom  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 12:38:02pm

re: #111 Obdicut

What on earth does VAT tax and socialism have to do with each other?

One thing they share is that they’re both BS that’s being shoveled by Fox. The impending VAT tax has almost become an article of faith on that network lately with how often it’s brought up.

120 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 12:47:35pm

re: #119 simoom

re: #111 Obdicut


One thing they share is that they’re both BS that’s being shoveled by Fox. The impending VAT tax has almost become an article of faith on that network lately with how often it’s brought up.

The White House economic advisor brought it up. CBO director Doug Elmendorf said he’s been getting “a lot of questions” about the VAT tax from Congress.

121 ryannon  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 12:52:24pm

re: #115 SteveB4

By my understanding, socialism is a system of social organization in which the means of production is centralized with the state. The more heavily taxed a country is, the more the money (power) is shifted away from the private sector to the state.

My question, again, is: how far along this spectrum must we shift before it is okay to use the word “socialism”? If you disagree that the institution of a VAT tax would be a good dividing line, then what would be?

France found a clever way to tax taxes; that’s right, you pay an small percentage of additional income tax calculated on the total amount of income tax you already pay. I’ve forgotten what incredible euphemism they invented for this tax tax, but neither Chirac nor Sarkozy and their respective majority-right governments ever rescinded it. And yet, neither Chirac nor Sarkozy could be considered ‘Socialists.’

122 elizajane  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 12:55:08pm

I’ve always wondered how it is possible that only 89% of Teabaggers are white. If you read to the end of the poll, you get the answer. 1% say they are black, 1% say they are Asian, 3% refuse to answer, and 6% say “other.” “Other” what? Pacific Islander? They’re white; saying “other” is their form of refusing to answer.

123 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 12:58:22pm

re: #121 ryannon

re: #115 SteveB4


France found a clever way to tax taxes; that’s right, you pay an small percentage of additional income tax calculated on the total amount of income tax you already pay. I’ve forgotten what incredible euphemism they invented for this tax tax, but neither Chirac nor Sarkozy and their respective majority-right governments ever rescinded it. And yet, neither Chirac nor Sarkozy could be considered ‘Socialists.’

I guess it’s like the argument that there are no such things as black and white, only shades of gray. The article Charles posted says that “ninety-two percent of Tea Party supporters believe President Obama’s policies are moving the country toward socialism.” Moving toward, meaning shifting towards the socialist end of the spectrum.

124 simoom  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 1:00:10pm

re: #120 SteveB4

The White House economic advisor brought it up. CBO director Doug Elmendorf said he’s been getting “a lot of questions” about the VAT tax from Congress.

Yes, it’s been mentioned at various times and some folks support it, but the President has never advocated for it, and in fact, on a number of occasions when Orzag’s office has directly been asked about it, they’ve shot it down. Until the President or the congression leadership actually proposes it, it’s just a phantom that RW media has been dishonestly portraying as an inevitability.

125 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 1:01:21pm

re: #124 simoom

re: #120 SteveB4


Yes, it’s been mentioned at various times and some folks support it, but the President has never advocated for it, and in fact, on a number of occasions when Orzag’s office has directly been asked about it, they’ve shot it down. Until the President or the congression leadership actually proposes it, it’s just a phantom that RW media has been dishonestly portraying as an inevitability.

Large new entitlements have to be paid for somehow…the money has to come from somewhere. Either cuts in spending (benefits) or hikes in taxes.

126 simoom  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 1:13:21pm

re: #125 SteveB4

Large new entitlements have to be paid for somehow…the money has to come from somewhere. Either cuts in spending (benefits) or hikes in taxes.

For the sake of argument, if large new entitlements necessitate a VAT Tax then the RW media should really be blaming it on Medicare Part D, estimated to cost 750 - 800 billion over the next 10 years, as it was passed without even trying to find the revenue to pay for it — total deficit spending.

127 dugmartsch  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 1:19:30pm

re: #51 darthstar

Someone should go around that tea party with a camera and ask individuals protesting if they got a refund this year. That’s it…a yes or no question: Did you get a refund?
If they say yes, then the obvious follow-up would be, “So, this is just about the black guy, right?”

Not that I’m a tea-bagging sypahtizer but, what does getting a refund have to do with anything? That just means you paid too much taxes and you’re getting something back, not that you got more than you paid in.

Still, I can guarantee that the majority of folks in the tea-bagging movement do get more in federal tax dollars than they pay in. Considering their demo breakdowns it’s probably a large majority.

128 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 1:20:35pm

re: #126 simoom

re: #125 SteveB4


For the sake of argument, if large new entitlements necessitate a VAT Tax then the RW media should really be blaming it on Medicare Part D, estimated to cost 750 - 800 billion over the next 10 years, as it was passed without even trying to find the revenue to pay for it — total deficit spending.

That and the massive new healtcare overhaul, and a bunch of other things piling up. It’s a snowball effect, and the snowball seems to be rolling faster and faster.

129 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 1:52:52pm

re: #117 uncah91

Well, in a system where taxes are 100% of income, and therefore all needs are necessarily then provided by the state, you would have a de facto communist system. So in that sense a tax increase could be seen as a “move towards communism.” People seem to confuse communism and socialism, so I suppose it could also be seen as socialist. I take issue with this characterization, but, given that ‘s how you want to see it, I still don’t see how it applies in the case of a VAT.

A VAT tax doesn’t inherently increase the tax load, it just changes how taxes are paid. So if a small VAT tax was implemented, but income taxes went down as much or more, you’d have a lower tax burden, not a higher one.

As an exercise in reasoning through hypotheticals, you’re correct. As an exercise in prediction, you’d have got better results if you’d taken into account the recent history of Europe with a VAT.

VAT’s are an efficient way to collect taxes: compliance costs are small. You comply any time you buy anything. It’s no trouble to obey the law and pay your taxes. They’re also efficient in the sense that they don’t much disrupt the economy. People don’t avoid taxes by just giving up and quitting, something that is a real danger when marginal tax rates on the very wealthy hit confiscatory levels.

But these good qualities of a VAT carry with them the seeds of a major increase in overall tax rates. The state can raise the VAT and there won’t be much flak. So it does. And does so again and again. Europe has now found its political steady state. Government collects about half the total GDP as taxes, with high income taxes and high VAT taxes pulling as a perfect team to collect every euro that can possibly be collected.

Isaac Asimov’s view [shared by many professionals] that history isn’t as much contingent as people think, but that instead much of what happens happens because of underlying forces that will give the same result if the same thing is tried in an essentially similar society, suggests that if we here institute a VAT, we’ll arrive at a society like Europe has now, one in which unemployment is structurally higher even in good times than it now is in our bad time, a society in which there is little innovation and fewer entrepreneurs.

Today, the U.S. is so far ahead of Europe that West Virginia (our poorest state) has a higher per capita GDP than, say, France. That lead has to evaporate if all the inputs to the model are matched to European conditions.

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 2:24:26pm

re: #122 elizajane

I’ve always wondered how it is possible that only 89% of Teabaggers are white. If you read to the end of the poll, you get the answer. 1% say they are black, 1% say they are Asian, 3% refuse to answer, and 6% say “other.” “Other” what? Pacific Islander? They’re white; saying “other” is their form of refusing to answer.

Goes with the folks who said they were ‘American’ for race on their census forms.

131 Tigger2005  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 3:35:12pm

Knowing stuff does not always mean knowing how to think.

re: #61 Right Brain

What was salient in the New York Times /CBS poll was that they found the Tea Party supporters were more educated than the general American public. To the New York Times’ credit this feature was the headline and cover story of their main edition this morning with the title “Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated”

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

The NY Times can bring themselves to admit this higher education among the Tea Party supporters, will this site?

132 SeafoodGumbo  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 4:38:19pm

So, if it’s now “Obama Derangement Syndrome” to “believe President Obama’s policies are moving the country toward socialism,” I guess that LGF2008 was guilty of Obama Derangement Syndrome:

Obama Ridicules ‘Socialist’ Charge, But He Admitted Seeking Out Marxist Professors and Socialist Conferences

Barack Obama is mocking the charges that he promotes socialist ideology: Obama ridicules McCain charge he’s socialist.

But if he really has nothing to do with socialism, why did the Chicago Democratic Socialists of America strongly recommend Obama for Congressman?

If anyone can recognize socialism, it would be the Democratic Socialists of America.

Of course, Obama himself admitted openly that he attended “socialist conferences” at Cooper Union, while he attended Columbia University:

He also admitted that he sought out Marxist professors:

And now he’s pulling the socialist wool over America’s eyes.

133 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 6:24:42pm

re: #132 SeafoodGumbo

See the concepts of ‘before’ and ‘after’ and why they’re different.

134 Kruk  Thu, Apr 15, 2010 7:20:22pm

re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m perfectly happy to accept that the Tea Partiers appear to be a largely middle-class movement, financially well-set and with all the many advantages of modern American life.

As far as I’m concerned, this just underscores their general annoying qualities. These are very privileged people, who have no excuse for the crap they’re swallowing, except that the crap is a major ingredient in their martyr cookies.

Not sure if you use this expression in the US or not, but this is what we call “Kicking the ladder away after you”. The more I learn out the Tea Party, the more and more I’m convinced their concerns about “fiscal responsibility” are not so much about the amount of spending as about where that spending is going. They want to make sure the entitlements keep flowing towards those who are already doing pretty well, and not towards those who have been left out so far.


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