This is part 2 of environmentalist Peter Sinclair’s deconstruction of Lord High Climate Denier Christopher Monckton and His Traveling Snake Oil Pseudoscience Show. (Part 1 is here.)
1 |
Uncle Obdicut Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:00:31pm |
But he’s got the fancy accent!
I the climate change denial types would put in 1/8th of the amount of time to being ‘skeptical’ about people like Monckton as they do being skeptical of the whole scientific community, there wouldn’t be any AGW denial.
2 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:00:47pm |
An excellent part two, I hadn’t realized that Monckton never served in the House of Lords, he just likes to fake it. Some of the other oddities I discovered while looking into that:
He’s written several sudoku puzzle books, he did run for house of Lords but failed to get a single vote. Which can only bring you to the conclusion that he didn’t even vote for himself?
3 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:01:25pm |
Christopher Monckton = Climate Denial Asshole who speaks House of Lords English.
5 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:06:25pm |
Send his happy ass to the Ministry of Silly Walks for reclassification!
7 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:08:46pm |
Greetings all.
I am so glad that this video is up.
One of the very important things which this video brings out but which can be missed in the course of the wider discussion is the fact that it was CO2 from ancient volcanism that pulled the Earth out of global ice age.
It is important to note what is known from those events -
1. The CO2 concentration built up over millions of years.
2. CO2 stays up in the atmosphere a very long time - it was capable of building over millions of years
3. This CO2 buildup was capable of reversing a global ice age so severe that even the oceans were mostly covered in ice.
4. We are dumping sequestered CO2 into the atmosphere at a vastly faster rate than vulcanism.
5. Our starting point is not a global ice age.
6. The end result can not possibly be pretty.
| 8 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:10:17pm |
re: #6 avanti
Compromise climate bill
coming April 26th.
I’ll wait to see what it contains before coming to a conclusion. Lindsay Graham and Joe Lieberman are good eggs and deserve a hearing. Marring the bill is the third sponsor, the odious and disloyal John Kerry.
9 |
Stanley Sea Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:10:17pm |
Monckton, invited to the tea parties in the US and is a birther.
10 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:10:40pm |
re: #7 ludwigvanquixote
4. We are dumping sequestered CO2 into the atmosphere at a vastly faster rate than vulcanism.
Can Mr Spock help us with that?
| 11 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:10:57pm |
And most importantly…
For the iguana eyed, tabloid journalist lord who was denied a peerage… And whose main claim to fame is advising Margarette Thatcher, a lady who completely rejected the snake oil of AGW denial…
Monckton: got consanguinity?
| 12 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:12:47pm |
re: #10 NJDhockeyfan
Can Mr Spock help us with that?
You know all of your little lines like that - like your discussion yesterday about cow farts and all - make you the Beavis and Butthead of any Climate thread.
I get really sick and tired of your insistence on making one liners and going hurr hurrr hurrr to dismiss the very real problem. It’s like when Cartman was going on about breast cancer. It really only makes you a prick.
hurr hurr hurr.
| 13 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:13:45pm |
re: #7 ludwigvanquixote
Hello, Ludwig. You should check and see the piece of denialism they have posted over at the Stalker Blog. I’d be interested to hear your refutation of it, so that I may use that refutation if someone brings the article up.
| 14 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:14:44pm |
re: #12 ludwigvanquixote
You know all of your little lines like that - like your discussion yesterday about cow farts and all - make you the Beavis and Butthead of any Climate thread.
I get really sick and tired of your insistence on making one liners and going hurr hurrr hurrr to dismiss the very real problem. It’s like when Cartman was going on about breast cancer. It really only makes you a prick.
hurr hurr hurr.
Upding for the Cartman reference. That was a great South Park episode.
15 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:14:50pm |
So… if you are lunatic, it is best not to leave a public record…
That about it?
If I may quote Bernard Fife…
“He’s a nut!”
| 16 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:15:02pm |
re: #13 Dark_Falcon
Hello, Ludwig. You should check and see the piece of denialism they have posted over at the Stalker Blog. I’d be interested to hear your refutation of it, so that I may use that refutation if someone brings the article up.
I am sure that I would rather hammer nails into my penis than look at it, but I suppose I should take a look.
17 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:15:48pm |
re: #16 ludwigvanquixote
I am sure that I would rather hammer nails into my penis than look at it, but I suppose I should take a look.
the Nobel Crusader…another beast to slay
| 18 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:17:07pm |
re: #16 ludwigvanquixote
I am sure that I would rather hammer nails into my penis than look at it, but I suppose I should take a look.
Thank you. Forewarned is forearmed.
| 19 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:17:21pm |
re: #12 ludwigvanquixote
You know all of your little lines like that - like your discussion yesterday about cow farts and all - make you the Beavis and Butthead of any Climate thread.
I get really sick and tired of your insistence on making one liners and going hurr hurrr hurrr to dismiss the very real problem. It’s like when Cartman was going on about breast cancer. It really only makes you a prick.
hurr hurr hurr.
There is no humor in AGW.
20 |
Reginald Perrin Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:17:28pm |
re: #13 Dark_Falcon
Why waste time reading the feces that the intellectual midgets at that cesspool write?
That place has been reduced to being nothing but a circle jerk and echo chamber.
21 |
darthstar Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:19:02pm |
Hey everyone…hit and run post. Just got home from skiing, and am taking my wife and my back up partner (will explain later) out to dinner. Had one fun event…got buried in a snow-pit today to help with training the rescue dogs. It was fun watching those suckers bore a hole in the snow to ‘rescue’ me…then lick my face, then realize I had a treat for them which made my face no longer attractive to them.
| 22 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:19:28pm |
re: #20 Reginald Perrin
Why waste time reading the feces that the intellectual midgets at that cesspool write?
That place has been reduced to being nothing but a circle jerk and echo chamber.
heh…good question…I’ve been told it’s a calling, a sort of responsibility to the greater cause
| 23 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:20:43pm |
re: #19 NJDhockeyfan
There is no humor in AGW.
Exactly.
Some other things that there is no humor in:
1. The Cambodian Killing Fields
2. Honor killings
3. AIDS
4. The Rape of Nanking
5. Gas Chambers
6. Southern slavery
7. Child rape followed by cannibalism
The main difference is that AGW will kill many more.
| 24 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:21:24pm |
Us human beings have to be having some affect on the climate. What isi is yet I do not know. I do know that when I was in high school in the early-mid 70s we were all supposed to be under 2 miles of ice right now!
So I read, and read and read some more.
| 25 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:23:00pm |
re: #20 Reginald Perrin
Why waste time reading the feces that the intellectual midgets at that cesspool write?
That place has been reduced to being nothing but a circle jerk and echo chamber.
I’m not primarily interested in their comments, but rather in the denialist article. By familiarizing ourselves with the other sides arguments, we are better prepared to counter them with the truth.
26 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:24:12pm |
re: #12 ludwigvanquixote
oh, simmer down. i for one appreciate the occasional bit of levity injected into most serious discussions. you’re free to check your humor at the door - if some of us are in an irreverent mood, so what?
| 27 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:26:59pm |
re: #25 Dark_Falcon
I’m not primarily interested in their comments, but rather in the denialist article. By familiarizing ourselves with the other sides arguments, we are better prepared to counter them with the truth.
deniers don’t care what you tell them…after all the effort there is now a huge denier enterprise system…the truth is meaningless when there is money to be made otherwise…we have to go around them to address the problems…there is no time for continuous, never ending argument…why can’t you see this?….CO2 levels need to be addressed as an economic and national security issue
| 28 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:28:27pm |
re: #26 Aceofwhat?
oh, simmer down. i for one appreciate the occasional bit of levity injected into most serious discussions. you’re free to check your humor at the door - if some of us are in an irreverent mood, so what?
What!? How dare ye! Did ye not hear the words that the Cotton Mather of Climate Change did speak? There shall be no fun for thee this Saturday Night!
//and if you complain we shall have to take your name down and you can’t have anymore pudding….
29 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:29:06pm |
Isn’t Monckton currently in the States as one of the top speakers at various “conservative” events?
| 30 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:29:06pm |
Well, well…did someone miss their anger management class today?
| 31 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:29:17pm |
re: #28 Thanos
What!? How dare ye! Did ye not hear the words that the Cotton Mather of Climate Change did speak? There shall be no fun for thee this Saturday Night!
//and if you complain we shall have to take your name down and you can’t have anymore pudding…
…but how can i have any meat if i don’t…
| 32 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:30:01pm |
re: #27 albusteve
deniers don’t care what you tell them…after all the effort there is now a huge denier enterprise system…the truth is meaningless when there is money to be made otherwise…we have to go around them to address the problems…there is no time for continuous, never ending argument…why can’t you see this?…CO2 levels need to be addressed as an economic and national security issue
I understand all that. But in order to effective talk to those people who can be persuaded, it is necessary to understand and counteract the deniers’ arguments.
33 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:30:06pm |
re: #16 ludwigvanquixote
I am sure that I would rather hammer nails into my penis than look at it, but I suppose I should take a look.
Not a good visual there bro.
| 35 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:30:43pm |
re: #29 Cato the Elder
Isn’t Monckton currently in the States as one of the top speakers at various “conservative” events?
Indeed he is, Fraud Monckton of the Plains, friend of Heartland Institute, snake oil salespeople, and carny barkers everywhere…
36 |
AlexRogan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:31:05pm |
re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
So… if you are lunatic, it is best not to leave a public record…
That about it?
If I may quote Bernard Fife…
“He’s a nut!”
I’ll take your Bernard Fife quote and push it up a notch:
“Nip it…nip it in the bud!”
;-P
37 |
Professor Chaos Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:32:17pm |
re: #5 pingjockey
Send his happy ass to the Ministry of Silly Walks for reclassification!
They don’t have the budget for that!
I’m afraid that the Ministry of Silly Walks is no longer getting the kind of support it needs. You see there’s Defense, Social Security, Health, Housing, Education, Silly Walks … they’re all supposed to get the same. But last year, the Government spent less on the Ministry of Silly Walks than it did on National Defence.
| 38 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:32:41pm |
re: #28 Thanos
What!? How dare ye! Did ye not hear the words that the Cotton Mather of Climate Change did speak? There shall be no fun for thee this Saturday Night!
//and if you complain we shall have to take your name down and you can’t have anymore pudding…
Only serious comments allowed in this thread. Anything less will result is 20 lashes with a cane and bed with no dessert.
39 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:32:48pm |
re: #23 ludwigvanquixote Those things are not equivalents. Most of the things you listed (minus AIDS) are evils perpetrated by man against man. It does not rise to the level of murder or rape. Though people overuse those terms to describe part of what is being done to the environment I resent their misappropriation. There is no moral equivalency here. And gallows humor on the part of fellow sufferers is generally considered acceptable whereas finding humor in the suffering of others is not.
| 42 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:34:52pm |
re: #38 NJDhockeyfan
Only serious comments allowed in this thread. Anything less will result is 20 lashes with a cane and bed with no dessert.
i might be a skinny tennis player, but get between me and my nightly bowl of ice cream and i’m comin’ at you like a spider monkey/
| 43 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:35:21pm |
re: #32 Dark_Falcon
I understand all that. But in order to effective talk to those people who can be persuaded, it is necessary to understand and counteract the deniers’ arguments.
people will basically do what the feds tell them to…this is the current nature of our culture, regardless of the upset TP crowd, they are a noisy minority…the govt has to be smart, and persuasive without over reaching to get anything accomplished, like dump all the permit problems and restrictions and get on with nuclear power…the very first step, right there…99% of the people will support it…otherwise we can all kiss our asses goodbye dur to one of Lug’s colorful doomsday scenarios….it’s either do or die right?….isn’t that what you and he believe?….if so your energies would be better spent lobbying for nukes, hundreds of them
| 44 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:35:41pm |
Cotton Mather’s father’s first name was “Increase”.
Seriously.
| 45 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:36:00pm |
re: #42 Aceofwhat?
i might be a skinny tennis player, but get between me and my nightly bowl of ice cream and i’m comin’ at you like a spider monkey/
So you’ll be flinging poo?
/
| 46 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:36:39pm |
re: #18 Dark_Falcon
Thank you. Forewarned is forearmed.
OK, I have taken a look. I hesitate to link to a piece of utter garbage from Climate Audit from the debunked and disgraced McIntyre, however it is worth countering.
Once again, the data that the denier article itself brings is the says exact opposite of what the denier blog claims.
The denier blog claims:
For instance, according to GISS, the mean March temperature in Sodankylä (61402836000) was a remarkable +1.5 °C beating the old record (-2.2 °C) from 1920 by 3.7 °C!
Well, according to the Finnish Meteorological Institute, March 2010 was colder than usual all over Finland, especially in the northern part. For instance, the mean temperature in Sodankylä was -10.3 °C,
It then goes on to infer that the entire GISS is riddled with flaws and lacks quality control.
We will use the time honored trick of actually looking at the data:
Let’s look at the chart that the Finns themselves produced, which the blog nicely linked to.
Now on that chart - up at the top you will see yearly averages. They show a definite warming trend, even though they are not at monthly resolution, and even though for whatever reason, they only have selected years.
In the middle is an average for the years 1971-2000 which is then compared to the single year 2010 over the whole of Finland, and that average for 2010 is of course lower, since the year 2010 is barely out of winter. Can you say unbelievable cherry pick that falsely compares apples and oranges!
Of course, that does not stop these lunatics from somehow concluding that GISS is in some sort of conspiracy to set up one world socialism or whatever other utter garbage they claim.
Now let’s look at what the actual GISS data is:
We see nothing but heating and more heating - and if someone with even the most passing understanding of how to read a graph were to look at the Finnish data (which the deniers stupidly believe tells a different story)- it is all corroborated.
| 47 |
Shazam Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:36:57pm |
Which begs the question: why hasn’t the British Parliament laid the smackdown on this ass? There’s gotta be some kind of law on the books about pretending to be a Lord for financial gain. I guess misrepresentation doesn’t work if the people you’re taking money from (think tanks and energy companies) know about and depend on you lying about your status.
| 48 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:37:36pm |
re: #45 Dark_Falcon
So you’ll be flinging poo?
/
Hi, I’m Ricky Bobby. And if you don’t chew Big Red, then fuck you;)
| 49 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:38:20pm |
re: #38 NJDhockeyfan
Only serious comments allowed in this thread. Anything less will result is 20 lashes with a cane and bed with no dessert.
Denialist humour coming from a denialist is nothing more than denialist talking points couched in humour to make them look acceptable.
That is why LVQ reacts to your humour the way he does. Stop sounding so much like a denialist and your humour will be better appreciated.
50 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:38:44pm |
re: #46 ludwigvanquixote
Hi you Ludwig!
Hope you are well…
| 51 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:38:51pm |
re: #47 nonsense
Which begs the question: why hasn’t the British Parliament laid the smackdown on this ass? There’s gotta be some kind of law on the books about pretending to be a Lord for financial gain. I guess misrepresentation doesn’t work if the people you’re taking money from (think tanks and energy companies) know about and depend on you lying about your status.
he’s not, like…denying the Holocaust you know….free speech still rules, probably not for much longer tho
| 52 |
Renaissance_Man Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:39:48pm |
re: #47 nonsense
Which begs the question: why hasn’t the British Parliament laid the smackdown on this ass? There’s gotta be some kind of law on the books about pretending to be a Lord for financial gain. I guess misrepresentation doesn’t work if the people you’re taking money from (think tanks and energy companies) know about and depend on you lying about your status.
He is a Lord, technically - the 3rd Viscount of Brenchley. He may have falsely claimed membership in the House of Lords, but he’s allowed to use the title.
53 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:40:14pm |
re: #51 albusteve
he’s not, like…denying the Holocaust you know…free speech still rules, probably not for much longer tho
You’re forgetting they’re in England and they don’t have a First Amendment like we do, they have something better, standards.
| 54 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:40:34pm |
re: #49 b_sharp
Denialist humour coming from a denialist is nothing more than denialist talking points couched in humour to make them look acceptable.
That is why LVQ reacts to your humour the way he does. Stop sounding so much like a denialist and your humour will be better appreciated.
really? a spock pun related to vulcanism is a denialist point couched in humor?
help me out here. because from where i’m sitting, that’s more inventive than the slap chop…
| 55 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:40:55pm |
re: #24 pingjockey
Us human beings have to be having some affect on the climate. What isi is yet I do not know. I do know that when I was in high school in the early-mid 70s we were all supposed to be under 2 miles of ice right now!
So I read, and read and read some more.
Watch this and you will get the picture.
All together, this is around 20 minutes of your time. Please watch these videos.
The first video is from AAAS, the American Association for the Advancement of Science. AAAS is one of the flagship scientific organizations of America and for that matter the world. They publish the journal Science.
They have a video that does not mince words or pull punches about AGW and it tells you what you can do. If you want a real, this is what the scientists are begging you to hear, video with an unshakable pedigree, this is it.
The second video (in two parts) is from National Geographic. It goes into what happens when you raise the temperature by one degree, then two, then three all the way out to six degrees. The results are not pretty.
If you want to see what that world looks like, then watch these videos. Again, the science is sound and there are no punches pulled. Seeing it visualized is perhaps much more “real” for many than looking at graphs and inferring things from data. This is the stark reality.
Part one
Part two
| 56 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:40:56pm |
re: #46 ludwigvanquixote
I read something about that earlier, the gist being that the small portion of portion the denialists are focusing on affects the whole by some incredibly infinitesimal amt, meaning that it’s statistically insignificant. I’ll see if I can find the article, it was at one of the science blogs.
| 57 |
Shazam Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:40:56pm |
Free speech does rule! It rules when I show up to a party in my fake police uniform and, um, “confiscate” their beer and womens! And it totally rocks when I can get my doctor on and give medical advice for moneys even though I never got my m.d.
| 58 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:40:58pm |
re: #43 albusteve
[snip]
…if so your energies would be better spent lobbying for nukes, hundreds of them
Abso-frickin-tootly.
Spreading information about the potential hardships of AGW is part of that lobbying.
59 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:41:12pm |
re: #42 Aceofwhat?
i might be a skinny tennis player, but get between me and my nightly bowl of ice cream and i’m comin’ at you like a spider monkey/
I have a magnet on my freezer:
Before taking the last of the ice cream, ask yourself this question: What Is Your Life Worth?
Slow in here, where is everybody?
And especially - where are the gals?
Room seems testosterone heavy to me.
| 60 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:41:44pm |
re: #53 jamesfirecat
You’re forgetting they’re in England and they don’t have a First Amendment like we do, they have something better, standards.
what are these standards and how do they make their system better?
| 61 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:42:41pm |
re: #54 Aceofwhat?
Someone made a Spock joke last night after the “Vulcanism” was used. It got big laughs. Many jokes around here repeat.
I saw it coming from a mile away… but the reaction surprised me.
“I HAS SPOKEN!”
-Mammy Yokum
| 62 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:43:25pm |
re: #49 b_sharp
…and if you attempt any humor you will be attacked.
| 63 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:43:37pm |
re: #54 Aceofwhat?
really? a spock pun related to vulcanism is a denialist point couched in humor?
help me out here. because from where i’m sitting, that’s more inventive than the slap chop…
Taken in the context of everything else he writes it is yet another bit of garbage. And even if it were meant as humor rather than belittling a real issue, it is not funny. It is no more funny than making cripple jokes to someone in a wheel chair.
Get it through your head that we have not changed the course we are on one jot. The course we are on leads to the deaths of billions and the collapse of civilization as we know it.
| 64 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:43:38pm |
re: #57 nonsense
Free speech does rule! It rules when I show up to a party in my fake police uniform and, um, “confiscate” their beer and womens! And it totally rocks when I can get my doctor on and give medical advice for moneys even though I never got my m.d.
Did you know you can just buy lab coats?
| 65 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:43:41pm |
re: #46 ludwigvanquixote
It then goes on to infer that the entire GISS is riddled with flaws and lacks quality control.
We will use the time honored trick of actually looking at the data:
Let’s look at the chart that the Finns themselves produced, which the blog nicely linked to.
Now on that chart - up at the top you will see yearly averages. They show a definite warming trend, even though they are not at monthly resolution, and even though for whatever reason, they only have selected years.
In the middle is an average for the years 1971-2000 which is then compared to the single year 2010 over the whole of Finland, and that average for 2010 is of course lower, since the year 2010 is barely out of winter. Can you say unbelievable cherry pick that falsely compares apples and oranges!
Of course, that does not stop these lunatics from somehow concluding that GISS is in some sort of conspiracy to set up one world socialism or whatever other utter garbage they claim.
Now let’s look at what the actual GISS data is:
[Link: data.giss.nasa.gov…]
We see nothing but heating and more heating - and if someone with even the most passing understanding of how to read a graph were to look at the Finnish data (which the deniers stupidly believe tells a different story)- it is all corroborated.
McIntyre is trying to spread the meme that errors and correction is anti-science despite a couple of hundred years of incredible technological growth and accumulated knowledge from science doing exactly that.
| 66 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:43:47pm |
re: #55 ludwigvanquixote
Thanks! Before I bail out to go enlighten myself, have any of these scientists also factored in the earths wobble as we orbit the sun?
| 67 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:43:51pm |
re: #59 reine.de.tout
Seen the language around here lately?
| 68 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:44:04pm |
re: #53 jamesfirecat
You’re forgetting they’re in England and they don’t have a First Amendment like we do, they have something better, standards.
I do not agree. The blanket protect the First Amendment generally affords strikes me as better.
| 69 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:45:04pm |
re: #59 reine.de.tout
And especially - where are the gals?
Room seems testosterone heavy to me.
It totally is. Windy, WUB and i had to spend some time telling each other how gorgeous we all are in the last thread to keep the discussion moving. It was good for me, but Ace was not meant to live on boys alone/
| 70 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:45:14pm |
re: #56 Thanos
I read something about that earlier, the gist being that the small portion of portion the denialists are focusing on affects the whole by some incredibly infinitesimal amt, meaning that it’s statistically insignificant. I’ll see if I can find the article, it was at one of the science blogs.
More importantly, there is no real complaint to be made since they are comparing datasets in a way that is completely unkosher, lying about what the data sets actually say and are too stupid to see that.
| 71 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:45:41pm |
re: #54 Aceofwhat?
really? a spock pun related to vulcanism is a denialist point couched in humor?
help me out here. because from where i’m sitting, that’s more inventive than the slap chop…
Its not just that one joke, it is a history of jokes and comments. Don’t look at it in isolation.
| 72 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:45:51pm |
re: #60 albusteve
what are these standards and how do they make their system better?
Its a Jon Oliver Quote.
| 73 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:46:00pm |
| 74 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:46:11pm |
75 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:46:13pm |
re: #69 Aceofwhat?
WUB at least has been known to dress up like Alice (From Wonderland, not some other Alice). That’s pretty low testosterone :D
| 76 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:46:24pm |
re: #63 ludwigvanquixote
Taken in the context of everything else he writes it is yet another bit of garbage. And even if it were meant as humor rather than belittling a real issue, it is not funny. It is no more funny than making cripple jokes to someone in a wheel chair.
Get it through your head that we have not changed the course we are on one jot. The course we are on leads to the deaths of billions and the collapse of civilization as we know it.
whatever, lighten up with all this death and destruction, if you’re clever you might think of another way to express yourself without all the nastiness…it’s old, stale and getting comical imo….attacking people with childish names accomplishes nothing…in fact it erodes your message
| 77 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:46:24pm |
re: #63 ludwigvanquixote
Taken in the context of everything else he writes it is yet another bit of garbage. And even if it were meant as humor rather than belittling a real issue, it is not funny. It is no more funny than making cripple jokes to someone in a wheel chair.
Get it through your head that we have not changed the course we are on one jot. The course we are on leads to the deaths of billions and the collapse of civilization as we know it.
The Great Oz has spoken. Now pack your Vulcan jokes and GTFO. The end is near.
| 78 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:46:25pm |
re: #50 HoosierHoops
Hi you Ludwig!
Hope you are well…
Fantastic and in my element. I hope you are fabulous as well buddy.
| 80 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:46:42pm |
re: #69 Aceofwhat?
It totally is. Windy, WUB and i had to spend some time telling each other how gorgeous we all are in the last thread to keep the discussion moving. It was good for me, but Ace was not meant to live on boys alone/
I read a lot of parts of that last thread, the conversations were so interesting and polite and calm, I just sat back and enjoyed.
| 81 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:47:03pm |
re: #70 ludwigvanquixote
More importantly, there is no real complaint to be made since they are comparing datasets in a way that is completely unkosher, lying about what the data sets actually say and are too stupid to see that.
I doubt its simply stupidity. More likely malice, mixed in with the sales of their conclusions to their employer for the duration of the contract.
| 82 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:47:09pm |
re: #63 ludwigvanquixote
Taken in the context of everything else he writes it is yet another bit of garbage. And even if it were meant as humor rather than belittling a real issue, it is not funny. It is no more funny than making cripple jokes to someone in a wheel chair.
Get it through your head that we have not changed the course we are on one jot. The course we are on leads to the deaths of billions and the collapse of civilization as we know it.
i make jokes which fall flat all the time. you can be the bigger person and drive past them or you can be a dick and cry about them.
i greatly prefer to interact with Ludwig the bigger person.
| 83 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:47:13pm |
re: #76 albusteve
You know, you really shouldn’t play the scold on negativity, cynicism, or nastiness :D
84 |
researchok Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:47:23pm |
re: #80 reine.de.tout
I read a lot of parts of that last thread, the conversations were so interesting and polite and calm, I just sat back and enjoyed.
Almost an out of body experience.
| 85 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:47:35pm |
| 86 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:47:46pm |
re: #70 ludwigvanquixote
More importantly, there is no real complaint to be made since they are comparing datasets in a way that is completely unkosher, lying about what the data sets actually say and are too stupid to see that.
That too!
| 87 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:47:52pm |
| 88 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:48:01pm |
re: #82 Aceofwhat?
Ludwig has to deal with alot of outright hostility and baiting, I understand why he’s a bit tightly wound.
It is painful to watch sometime tho’, I’ll admit.
| 90 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:48:42pm |
re: #77 NJDhockeyfan
The Great Oz has spoken. Now pack your Vulcan jokes and GTFO. The end is near.
That sounds like something TFK would write. And that’s not a complement.
| 91 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:49:18pm |
Something to take your agressions out on!
(the whole site is utterly awesome, but I had to choose *something* to link :p
| 92 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:49:42pm |
re: #83 windsagio
You know, you really shouldn’t play the scold on negativity, cynicism, or nastiness :D
poodle….did you get a glossie yet?
| 93 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:49:59pm |
re: #89 pingjockey
“Jocularity, Jocularity, Jocularity!”
We’ve got locularity, Monckton has consanguinity. :D
| 94 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:50:27pm |
re: #71 b_sharp
Its not just that one joke, it is a history of jokes and comments. Don’t look at it in isolation.
oh, Lawd, the history…
look, i absolutely get my pantyhose in a twist from time to time. i’m not rolling my eyes out of any sense of moral high ground on my part.
that having been said…does anyone want to borrow my mascara when i’m finished here? i mean, if we’re going to look down our noses at each other, we might as well have faaabulous lashes…
| 95 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:51:08pm |
re: #83 windsagio
You know, you really shouldn’t play the scold on negativity, cynicism, or nastiness :D
bwahahahahaha…*gasp*
| 96 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:51:23pm |
re: #93 Dark_Falcon
Damn. I do the NY Times crossword puzzle, in pen and y’all use a word I have to look up!
| 97 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:51:33pm |
re: #90 Dark_Falcon
That sounds like something TFK would write. And that’s not a complement.
yes it is…jokes are acceptable, from anybody at any time…Charles rules the board, not you or Lud….you people are making way too much of it….if your sensibilities are that fucking fragile, you might log off
| 98 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:51:53pm |
re: #88 windsagio
Ludwig has to deal with alot of outright hostility and baiting, I understand why he’s a bit tightly wound.
It is painful to watch sometime tho’, I’ll admit.
there you go being all reasonable agaon…
| 99 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:52:00pm |
re: #94 Aceofwhat?
oh, Lawd, the history…
look, i absolutely get my pantyhose in a twist from time to time. i’m not rolling my eyes out of any sense of moral high ground on my part.
that having been said…does anyone want to borrow my mascara when i’m finished here? i mean, if we’re going to look down our noses at each other, we might as well have faaabulous lashes…
“Son, you’ve got a panty on your head.” (from last night’s thread I couldn’t join cause it waaaay too long for my poor computer.)
| 100 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:52:21pm |
re: #94 Aceofwhat?
oh, Lawd, the history…
look, i absolutely get my pantyhose in a twist from time to time. i’m not rolling my eyes out of any sense of moral high ground on my part.
that having been said…does anyone want to borrow my mascara when i’m finished here? i mean, if we’re going to look down our noses at each other, we might as well have faaabulous lashes…
My lashes are already fabulous.
| 101 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:52:34pm |
re: #97 albusteve
yes it is…jokes are acceptable, from anybody at any time…Charles rules the board, not you or Lud…you people are making way too much of it…if your sensibilities are that fucking fragile, you might log off
Point taken. I’ll dial it back.
| 102 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:52:51pm |
re: #68 Dark_Falcon
I do not agree. The blanket protect the First Amendment generally affords strikes me as better.
Once again, I was paraphrasing Jon Oliver when he was talking about how England had barred certain people from being allowed to visit it on the Daily Show….
If one person took me serious I’d let it slide, but since two have, its clip time.
| 103 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:52:51pm |
I’m still digging for that article I read this am, grr can’t find it but I did find this again, which presents some interesting speculation on the effects of unburdening of ice on vulcanism and vice versa in light of the unpronounceable volcano that’s venting in Iceland now…
scienceblogs.com
104 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:53:04pm |
NewWorldOrderapocalypseBuyGoldSeedBank!
| 105 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:53:06pm |
re: #98 Aceofwhat?
I’m in a good mood tonight, nobody that really gets up my ass is around.
(ps: another cool thing from the sight I linked above. This guy rocks
| 106 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:53:26pm |
re: #96 pingjockey
Damn. I do the NY Times crossword puzzle, in pen and y’all use a word I have to look up!
Give the credit to Ludwig. He was the one who started using that term in reference to Monckton.
| 107 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:53:35pm |
108 |
Pie-onist Overlord Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:53:35pm |
re: #59 reine.de.tout
I have a magnet on my freezer:
Before taking the last of the ice cream, ask yourself this question: What Is Your Life Worth?
Slow in here, where is everybody?
And especially - where are the gals?
Room seems testosterone heavy to me.
I am here, just catching up.
What impact is this Iceland volcano cloud going to have on the climate? It’s already wreaked havoc with European aviation.
I am so glad that my daughter flew back to Israel last week, otherwise she’d be stuck with her kids who knows where.
| 109 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:53:50pm |
re: #96 pingjockey
Damn. I do the NY Times crossword puzzle, in pen and y’all use a word I have to look up!
Me too. Though I just put in random letters, symbols and numbers… so, it doesn’t matter.
| 110 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:54:04pm |
re: #102 jamesfirecat
Once again, I was paraphrasing Jon Oliver when he was talking about how England had barred certain people from being allowed to visit it on the Daily Show…
If one person took me serious I’d let it slide, but since two have, its clip time.
[Link: www.thedailyshow.com…]
I gotta bone up on Oliver myself…thanks
| 112 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:54:13pm |
re: #90 Dark_Falcon
That sounds like something TFK would write. And that’s not a complement.
I made a little insignificant pun on an LVQ post and was called a prick. He needs to grow some thicker scales if that’s what it takes to explode in anger. Everyone here gets jokes thrown their way. LVQ needs some profession help if my 7 word pun makes him lose control.
| 113 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:54:38pm |
re: #39 Escaped Hillbilly
AGW is man causing the suffering of other man. It is exactly morally equivalent to those things. We are causing it, we will be responsible for the damage it does.
Denying that or denying the science of AGW is actually worse than Holocaust denial for two reasons.
1. The Holocaust already happened. Nothing can change that. We still have time to avert the even larger catastrophes that will come from AGW.
2. AGW, if unchecked, will kill many more people by orders of magnitude.
And I am saying that as a Jew who would never belittle the Holocaust.
| 114 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:54:45pm |
re: #108 Alouette
I am here, just catching up.
What impact is this Iceland volcano cloud going to have on the climate? It’s already wreaked havoc with European aviation.
I am so glad that my daughter flew back to Israel last week, otherwise she’d be stuck with her kids who knows where.
Glad your daughter and the young ‘uns made it back. I’d hate to be stuck who knows where.
| 115 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:54:59pm |
re: #75 windsagio
WUB at least has been known to dress up like Alice (From Wonderland, not some other Alice). That’s pretty low testosterone :D
heh. i am definitely calling him for beers if i ever get to Portland.
| 116 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:55:10pm |
re: #102 jamesfirecat
Once again, I was paraphrasing Jon Oliver when he was talking about how England had barred certain people from being allowed to visit it on the Daily Show…
If one person took me serious I’d let it slide, but since two have, its clip time.
[Link: www.thedailyshow.com…]
Thank you for the clarification. I understand what you were trying to say now.
| 117 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:55:11pm |
re: #111 Escaped Hillbilly
Dude, it was on Yahoo! Meh.
arghh… I read too many things in the am. Sometimes before coffee. I have to stop that latter…
118 |
avanti Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:55:35pm |
re: #46 ludwigvanquixote
It then goes on to infer that the entire GISS is riddled with flaws and lacks quality control.
We will use the time honored trick of actually looking at the data:
Let’s look at the chart that the Finns themselves produced, which the blog nicely linked to.
Now on that chart - up at the top you will see yearly averages. They show a definite warming trend, even though they are not at monthly resolution, and even though for whatever reason, they only have selected years.
In the middle is an average for the years 1971-2000 which is then compared to the single year 2010 over the whole of Finland, and that average for 2010 is of course lower, since the year 2010 is barely out of winter. Can you say unbelievable cherry pick that falsely compares apples and oranges!
Of course, that does not stop these lunatics from somehow concluding that GISS is in some sort of conspiracy to set up one world socialism or whatever other utter garbage they claim.
Now let’s look at what the actual GISS data is:
[Link: data.giss.nasa.gov…]
We see nothing but heating and more heating - and if someone with even the most passing understanding of how to read a graph were to look at the Finnish data (which the deniers stupidly believe tells a different story)- it is all corroborated.
From my post down thread:
“Another “Climate gate” scandal making the rounds on the right wing blogs after the report that March was the warmest March on record. A error was made on the data set from Finland that has since been corrected and the March data was revised.
“Looks like GISS fixed it: They have posted a News bulletin on the GISTEMP homepage:
2010-04-15: The data shown between 4/13 and 4/15 were based on data downloaded on 4/12 and included some station reports from Finland in which the minus sign may have been dropped. NOAA updated GHCN on 4/13 by removing those data and we updated our displays today. The March 2010 global mean temperature was affected by about 2/100 of a degree Celsius, well below the margin of error (about 15/100 of a degree for monthly global means).”
| 119 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:55:46pm |
re: #63 ludwigvanquixote
Get it through your head that we have not changed the course we are on one jot.
And, in the aggregate, we are not likely to do so in time. Humanity as a whole is not “steerable” and will always follow the course of least resistance. If that means screwing the future for the sake of a cheap, relatively comfortable life here in the present, that’s exactly what we’ll pick.
| 120 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:55:49pm |
re: #82 Aceofwhat?
i make jokes which fall flat all the time. you can be the bigger person and drive past them or you can be a dick and cry about them.
i greatly prefer to interact with Ludwig the bigger person.
I would prefer that you not join in the chorus of attempting to derail yet another AGW thread with pointless diversions and false whining about the tender sensibilities of one with a proven history of denier posts.
| 121 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:56:04pm |
re: #109 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Me too. Though I just put in random letters, symbols and numbers… so, it doesn’t matter.
That’s what my dad did after the Alzheimer’s set in.
| 122 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:56:23pm |
re: #114 reine.de.tout
Glad your daughter and the young ‘uns made it back. I’d hate to be stuck who knows where.
There’s a lizard (anybody remember who?) who’s stuck in an airport in Europe.
Hey, “Stranded Lizard!” You’re in my thoughts!
| 123 |
researchok Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:56:52pm |
re: #108 Alouette
I am here, just catching up.
What impact is this Iceland volcano cloud going to have on the climate? It’s already wreaked havoc with European aviation.
I am so glad that my daughter flew back to Israel last week, otherwise she’d be stuck with her kids who knows where.
Might cool things down a bit if this goes on much longer.
Volcanic activity affects not only land and sea, but the atmosphere as well. 1816 was known as the “Year without a Summer” following a powerful eruption of Mt. Tamboura in Indonesia a year earlier. The eruption of Krakatoa in Indonesia in July of 1883 produced similar effects worldwide. This great eruption was heard about 3,000 miles away. It produced sea waves almost 130 feet (40m.) high that drowned 36,000 people on nearby islands. There was a loss of 20-30% of direct solar radiation for three years after the eruption. That explosive eruption injected clouds of debris high into the stratosphere. Large volcanic eruptions like Krakatoa can cause short-term cooling of the climate by ejecting great quantities of dust, ash, carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere. Particles of sulfur dioxide in the volcanic dust can reduce the amount of incoming radiation, effectively cooling the upper atmosphere. When the particles of SO2 combine with water vapor, they produce sulfuric acid. Another consequence of some volcanic eruptions is therefore an increase in acid rain.
Brilliant sunsets and cooler summers followed the 1991 eruption of Mt. Pinatubo. The eruption of this Philippine volcano spewed about 15 million metric tons of sulfur dioxide gas into the atmosphere. The resulting aerosol cloud depressed the mean global temperature by some 0.5oC..
| 124 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:56:53pm |
re: #115 Aceofwhat?
I tried a few times (well not Alice), but whats the point of dressing up if you can’t look good in it?
| 125 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:57:05pm |
re: #100 reine.de.tout
My lashes are already fabulous.
you should see me with stage makeup on. i might have drab brown eyes but these lashes were made for batting…
| 127 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:57:17pm |
re: #75 windsagio
WUB at least has been known to dress up like Alice (From Wonderland, not some other Alice). That’s pretty low testosterone :D
You calling WUB a lightweight?
| 128 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:57:38pm |
re: #121 reine.de.tout
That’s what my dad did after the Alzheimer’s set in.
Alzheimer’s joke?
What’s the best thing about Alzheimer’s?
You meet new people all the time!
| 129 |
Reginald Perrin Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:57:55pm |
re: #25 Dark_Falcon
If you want a good laugh, check out the thread below the climate denier one. Before reading it, check out the update at the bottom. The number Donato initially quoted was 100 times greater than reality, but the silly bugger still left the post up.
I wish I had the tinfoil concession for the deuce.
| 130 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:58:00pm |
re: #112 NJDhockeyfan
I made a little insignificant pun on an LVQ post and was called a prick. He needs to grow some thicker scales if that’s what it takes to explode in anger. Everyone here gets jokes thrown their way. LVQ needs some profession help if my 7 word pun makes him lose control.
He is wound a bit tight, I have to agree. However, I did promise Steve I’d dial it back, so I’m not going after people again tonight. Unless a troll shows up, of course.
131 |
ausador Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:58:12pm |
re: #59 reine.de.tout
I have a magnet on my freezer:
Before taking the last of the ice cream, ask yourself this question: What Is Your Life Worth?
Slow in here, where is everybody?
And especially - where are the gals?
Room seems testosterone heavy to me.
Maybe if we all speak in a high falsetto it will be better?
/
| 132 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:58:19pm |
re: #113 LudwigVanQuixote
AGW is man causing the suffering of other man. It is exactly morally equivalent to those things. We are causing it, we will be responsible for the damage it does.
Denying that or denying the science of AGW is actually worse than Holocaust denial for two reasons.
1. The Holocaust already happened. Nothing can change that. We still have time to avert the even larger catastrophes that will come from AGW.
2. AGW, if unchecked, will kill many more people by orders of magnitude.
And I am saying that as a Jew who would never belittle the Holocaust.
oh bullshit….it’s not a premeditated contrived condition to wipe out humans…it’s a mistake, science lagging behind culture…good lord…and btw you are part of the problem yourself…so join the crowd
| 133 |
Uncle Obdicut Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:58:26pm |
re: #119 Cato the Elder
Humanity doesn’t follow the course of least resistance. It is entirely possible your cynical view of human nature is correct, and that humans will not be able to achieve the complex network of social agreements that’ll allow us to forestall climate change. But it’s got nothing to do with following the course of least resistance.
If humans followed the course of least resistance we’d have never developed civilizations.
| 134 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:59:09pm |
| 135 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 6:59:26pm |
re: #108 Alouette
I am here, just catching up.
What impact is this Iceland volcano cloud going to have on the climate? It’s already wreaked havoc with European aviation.
I am so glad that my daughter flew back to Israel last week, otherwise she’d be stuck with her kids who knows where.
To answer,
In the short term (weeks) there is going to be a lot of particulate matter in the atmosphere that will make life difficult on certain regions until it washes away and falls out of the atmosphere.
In the medium term (months) the cloud will block out sun and cause a small bit of cooling in certain regions. Likely not net cooling, but rather cooler than expected temperatures.
In the long term (centuries) the massive CO2 release will make a small in comparison to human activity, contribution to the overall warming trend.
| 136 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:00:03pm |
re: #128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Alzheimer’s joke?
What’s the best thing about Alzheimer’s?
You meet new people all the time!
Heh.
We loved my dad until the day he died, no matter how strange he got.
I will admit there were times we had to laugh; but we loved him and took care of him always.
| 137 |
Uncle Obdicut Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:00:06pm |
re: #128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
That’s not the best thing about Alzheimer’s. I know what it is, though.
| 138 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:00:11pm |
re: #113 LudwigVanQuixote
AGW is man causing the suffering of other man. It is exactly morally equivalent to those things. We are causing it, we will be responsible for the damage it does.
Denying that or denying the science of AGW is actually worse than Holocaust denial for two reasons.
1. The Holocaust already happened. Nothing can change that. We still have time to avert the even larger catastrophes that will come from AGW.
2. AGW, if unchecked, will kill many more people by orders of magnitude.
And I am saying that as a Jew who would never belittle the Holocaust.
And how many has it killed yet? Murder and rape are murder and rape…not death because of stupidity, indifference, or ignorance. AGW was not intentionally inflicted. You might say AGW is equivalent to the famine in Darfur as an unintended consequence of man’s arrogance etc. But not most of what he listed. And I did use the word evil on purpose. Nope. Can’t agree these are equivalents. But I will agree to disagree.
| 139 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:00:16pm |
re: #120 LudwigVanQuixote
I would prefer that you not join in the chorus of attempting to derail yet another AGW thread with pointless diversions and false whining about the tender sensibilities of one with a proven history of denier posts.
scroll on…you are not some sort of MC…the more you keep this shit up, the more shit is gonna come your way
| 140 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:00:29pm |
re: #113 LudwigVanQuixote
There is one huge problem with AGW I haven’t heard how they(scientists) are gonna convince all the folks in the 3rd world to stop burning down forests for charcoal and farm land when those folks are trying to feed their families. The US, EU, China, India, Russia, Japan, some of South America and Africa you may get to help, but there are still billions of people you have to convince to change their ways to make any impact at all. China and India burn way more coal than us and have an exploding middle class, they have to have electricity.
| 141 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:00:34pm |
Ludwig, we are 120+ comments in, it’s Saturday night and most of us are drinking (I hope!) so the topic’s going to go where it will regardless of the topic cops. If you ignore the snark intended to sidetrack rather than focus on it you are much less likely to get the thread hijacked, I’ve learned that over several yrs here.
| 142 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:00:38pm |
re: #108 Alouette
I am here, just catching up.
What impact is this Iceland volcano cloud going to have on the climate? It’s already wreaked havoc with European aviation.
I am so glad that my daughter flew back to Israel last week, otherwise she’d be stuck with her kids who knows where.
Major eruptions tend to have a short-term (few weeks to a couple years)cooling effect, due the high-altitude ash reflecting the sunlight away.
| 143 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:00:52pm |
re: #126 NJDhockeyfan
Who is Jon Oliver?
He’s roomates with Galt guy you might have heard of…
Okay so I left the “h” off of his name because I think of Daily Show my mind instantly slips into the pattern of leaving the H off so I don’t spell it “John Stewart”
| 144 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:02:10pm |
re: #137 Obdicut
That’s not the best thing about Alzheimer’s. I know what it is, though.
What is it?
| 145 |
Uncle Obdicut Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:02:11pm |
re: #140 pingjockey
We develop and export green tech to them that allows them to live better lives, and more ecologically sound lives. We should have started doing this in earnest about thirty years ago.
| 146 |
Uncle Obdicut Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:02:20pm |
| 147 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:02:33pm |
re: #135 LudwigVanQuixote
To answer,
In the short term (weeks) there is going to be a lot of particulate matter in the atmosphere that will make life difficult on certain regions until it washes away and falls out of the atmosphere.
In the medium term (months) the cloud will block out sun and cause a small bit of cooling in certain regions. Likely not net cooling, but rather cooler than expected temperatures.
In the long term (centuries) the massive CO2 release will make a small in comparison to human activity, contribution to the overall warming trend.
Thank you, Ludwig. That was more than I knew, and I’m thankful for the knowledge addition.
| 148 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:02:40pm |
re: #132 albusteve
oh bullshit…it’s not a premeditated contrived condition to wipe out humans…it’s a mistake, science lagging behind culture…good lord…and btw you are part of the problem yourself…so join the crowd
Steve just completely and for the record, you are a total idiot.
We are most certainly polluting and deforesting in a premeditated way. The outcome of those actions is very well understood. It will kill people on a much larger scale than the Second World War did.
Since we know that is the case, yet continue to burn fossil fuels and maintain the system - even knowing the consequences it counts as a sort of global mass suicide and it is pushed by the deniers who wish to squeeze just a last bit of profit before we all go down.
Morally, it is absolutely no different.
| 149 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:02:59pm |
re: #133 Obdicut
Humanity doesn’t follow the course of least resistance. It is entirely possible your cynical view of human nature is correct, and that humans will not be able to achieve the complex network of social agreements that’ll allow us to forestall climate change. But it’s got nothing to do with following the course of least resistance.
If humans followed the course of least resistance we’d have never developed civilizations.
That was then. This is now. We are on the whole just lazy monkeys living off the human inheritance of millennia.
As long as gasoline is cheaper than buying a whole new car that runs on a yet-to-be-produced energy source, for instance, people will keep buying it, whether the cost is $3 per gallon or $17.
| 150 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:03:13pm |
Peripheral but important to topic:
Wow: Israeli Scientists might have overcome one of the major drawbacks of H2ICE engines:
news.yahoo.com
| 151 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:03:16pm |
re: #130 Dark_Falcon
He is wound a bit tight, I have to agree. However, I did promise Steve I’d dial it back, so I’m not going after people again tonight. Unless a troll shows up, of course.
Hey, I wasn’t looking for a conflict tonight either. I thought LVQ had a sense of humor. I was mistaken.
| 152 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:03:26pm |
re: #136 reine.de.tout
I only tell that joke because I heard it from a man who was taking care of his wife with it. Never put her in a home. Took excellent care of her until she died. He cherished every moment that he could take care of her.
I thought it was both fucked up and beautiful.
Honestly. The pictures of him with her, he was smiling like they were still newlyweds…
(but we digress)…
| 153 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:03:28pm |
re: #140 pingjockey
There is one huge problem with AGW I haven’t heard how they(scientists) are gonna convince all the folks in the 3rd world to stop burning down forests for charcoal and farm land when those folks are trying to feed their families. The US, EU, China, India, Russia, Japan, some of South America and Africa you may get to help, but there are still billions of people you have to convince to change their ways to make any impact at all. China and India burn way more coal than us and have an exploding middle class, they have to have electricity.
The inability of others to act makes for a poor excuse for our own apathy/inaction towards a problem.
| 154 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:04:06pm |
re: #132 albusteve
oh bullshit…it’s not a premeditated contrived condition to wipe out humans…it’s a mistake, science lagging behind culture…good lord…and btw you are part of the problem yourself…so join the crowd
10,000 updings!
| 155 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:04:15pm |
re: #145 Obdicut
We can’t even do that here because of all the nimby shit!
| 156 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:04:17pm |
re: #120 LudwigVanQuixote
I would prefer that you not join in the chorus of attempting to derail yet another AGW thread with pointless diversions and false whining about the tender sensibilities of one with a proven history of denier posts.
i do not lack so much faith in the kinetic energy of a good AGW thread to think that such a lowly pun threatens to knock it off the rails.
nor am i unable to attempt or read a bit of levity without sacrificing the ability to consider more serious fare.
and the Cavs are going to win the championship.
that is all.
| 157 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:04:39pm |
| 158 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:04:56pm |
Lizard Programmers
Early this morning we agreed to have a 1.99 app to find your stolen iPad via GPS..or any networked device
Great security ideas. Then Ideas just poured in for for everything..Visiting Napa Valley for the weekend? There is an iPad app for that…
If you are a developer email Reine…
| 159 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:05:03pm |
re: #133 Obdicut
Humanity doesn’t follow the course of least resistance. It is entirely possible your cynical view of human nature is correct, and that humans will not be able to achieve the complex network of social agreements that’ll allow us to forestall climate change. But it’s got nothing to do with following the course of least resistance.
If humans followed the course of least resistance we’d have never developed civilizations.
Cato has the same attitude I do…show me the beef, or shut the fuck up…where are the nukes for gods sake, that’s easy enough isn’t ti?…if govt can’t even provide that then what the hell….what are we supposed to think?…go on endlessly with this denunciation bullshit?….I’ll leave that to Lug and others who have some mission….meanwhile I’ll take what they give me and party on…see you on the other side
| 160 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:06:15pm |
re: #138 Escaped Hillbilly
And how many has it killed yet? Murder and rape are murder and rape…not death because of stupidity, indifference, or ignorance. AGW was not intentionally inflicted. You might say AGW is equivalent to the famine in Darfur as an unintended consequence of man’s arrogance etc. But not most of what he listed. And I did use the word evil on purpose. Nope. Can’t agree these are equivalents. But I will agree to disagree.
How many has it killed already… that is something that is difficult to get hard numbers on. I would estimate that it is certainly tens of thousands.
Watch the videos above and you start guessing. However, that is utterly irrelevant because of the numbers that will and must die when we can no longer feed them, house them or provide fresh water to them - and that does not even include the spread of contagion.
Of course it is intentional - or rather what we are doing to cause it is intentional, but people wish to fool themselves about the consequences.
In the end, I am sure that the dead really will not care.
| 161 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:06:21pm |
re: #156 Aceofwhat?
One thing I’ll go along with LVQ on is that there’s a cabal (well not really a cabal, but its a kickass word, maybe a cadre) of stealth-agw deniers on here that go out of their way to disrpt the hell out of any AGW thread.
Unfortunately, right now the best way to do it is to bait (or, if you will, Troll) Ludwig.
| 162 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:06:21pm |
re: #152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I only tell that joke because I heard it from a man who was taking care of his wife with it. Never put her in a home. Took excellent care of her until she died. He cherished every moment that he could take care of her.
I thought it was both fucked up and beautiful.
Honestly. The pictures of him with her, he was smiling like they were still newlyweds…
(but we digress)…
There reaches a point with Alzheimer’s where taking care of the person at home has a detrimental effect on the health of the caretaker. I stand in awe of anyone who is able to do it.
| 163 |
Uncle Obdicut Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:06:22pm |
re: #149 Cato the Elder
That was then. This is now. We are on the whole just lazy monkeys living off the human inheritance of millennia.
Well, that’s downright absurd, given that the humans since the Enlightenment have done more work, in the sheer physical sense, in the intellectual sense, and in every sense, than in the history before then. Of course, it’s silly in a way to say that, given that the previous advances were necessary, but in no way are we ‘lazy’ in the current day, by any measure.
As long as gasoline is cheaper than buying a whole new car that runs on a yet-to-be-produced energy source, for instance, people will keep buying it, whether the cost is $3 per gallon or $17.
But cars die, and then have to be replaced. If there is a substantial savings at that point by buying the new vehicle, they’ll do so. And that’s assuming the lightest touch, with no actual incentives— the least that we could do.
| 164 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:07:37pm |
re: #120 LudwigVanQuixote
I would prefer that you not join in the chorus of attempting to derail yet another AGW thread with pointless diversions and false whining about the tender sensibilities of one with a proven history of denier posts.
Who are you, the LGF police? Anyone here is allowed to speak their mind. May I remind you?
* Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
* Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
* Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, “First!”
* Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
* Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
* REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.
| 165 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:07:37pm |
| 166 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:07:51pm |
re: #153 jamesfirecat
Fine. We shut down all our power grids tomorrow, let everybody else do what they will. What will the affect on AGW be? Not much. I keep hearing all this crap. We have to do something, we are doing something, not much, nor enough IMO but something. How about other folks helping. Or is AGW gonna be like the 2004 Tsunami, IOW if us and Britain don’t help who will? The useless nitwits of Turtle Bay?
| 167 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:08:04pm |
re: #158 HoosierHoops
I have a suspicion that the ipad will be a fairly minor piece of technology in the long run, ‘cuz ulike the iPhone, its mainly an apple afficianado thing.
| 168 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:08:18pm |
re: #162 reine.de.tout
He turns 90 in a few weeks. Healthy as a frickin’ horse!
| 169 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:08:19pm |
re: #149 Cato the Elder
That was then. This is now. We are on the whole just lazy monkeys living off the human inheritance of millennia.
As long as gasoline is cheaper than buying a whole new car that runs on a yet-to-be-produced energy source, for instance, people will keep buying it, whether the cost is $3 per gallon or $17.
And yet the energy sources are available and so is the technology to make electric vehicles. It is not that the technology is lacking, it is policy thaat is lacking because of the vested financial interests blocking such policy. This is of course coupled with the human will to simply deny real problems that are staring them in the face.
There is no Hollywood happy ending here if we do not act. People either get that and get it soon or you will be correct and our civilization will have signed its own death warrant.
| 170 |
Reginald Perrin Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:08:27pm |
re: #134 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They masturbate to the idea that we read them.
I agree 100% and that is why I avoided reading the cesspool for months. Another reason to avoid the deuce is that I usually require copious amounts brain bleach to squelch the desire to hit myself in the head with a hammer after reading the feces they post.
171 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:09:02pm |
re: #52 Renaissance_Man
He is a Lord, technically - the 3rd Viscount of Brenchley. He may have falsely claimed membership in the House of Lords, but he’s allowed to use the title.
ahaha he’s a lord the way Dre is a doctor :D
| 172 |
Uncle Obdicut Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:09:07pm |
re: #162 reine.de.tout
Reine, apropos of absolutely nothing, you might like this book.
It’s by Madeline L’Engle.
| 173 |
Stanley Sea Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:09:13pm |
re: #59 reine.de.tout
I have a magnet on my freezer:
Before taking the last of the ice cream, ask yourself this question: What Is Your Life Worth?
Slow in here, where is everybody?
And especially - where are the gals?
Room seems testosterone heavy to me.
Hi Reine! Saw that you got the proof.
| 174 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:09:17pm |
re: #164 NJDhockeyfan
Ok that was pretty douchy. He’s not telling you what to post, he’s saying what he’d prefer.
Bullying apeal to authority, go back one space.
| 175 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:09:29pm |
re: #143 jamesfirecat
He’s roomates with Galt guy you might have heard of…
Okay so I left the “h” off of his name because I think of Daily Show my mind instantly slips into the pattern of leaving the H off so I don’t spell it “John Stewart”
I was just asking. I know a John Oliver who claims to be a psychic. He’s an asshole too.
| 176 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:09:36pm |
re: #150 Thanos
Peripheral but important to topic:
Wow: Israeli Scientists might have overcome one of the major drawbacks of H2ICE engines:
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
great post.
| 177 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:09:37pm |
re: #164 NJDhockeyfan
(glad he doesn’t take the “silly” too seriously, I would’ve been out of here… oh about post 10)
| 178 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:10:14pm |
| 179 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:10:20pm |
re: #148 LudwigVanQuixote
Steve just completely and for the record, you are a total idiot.
We are most certainly polluting and deforesting in a premeditated way. The outcome of those actions is very well understood. It will kill people on a much larger scale than the Second World War did.
Since we know that is the case, yet continue to burn fossil fuels and maintain the system - even knowing the consequences it counts as a sort of global mass suicide and it is pushed by the deniers who wish to squeeze just a last bit of profit before we all go down.
Morally, it is absolutely no different.
Lud old friend, you are a complete dolt if you think that the history of man’s hacking away at earths resources is some sort of hellbound, premeditated attempt to make money in spite of worldwide personal knowledge of the inevitable collapse of civilization….but I won’t give you credit otherwise….once more, you simpleton, you miss by a mile
| 180 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:10:36pm |
re: #150 Thanos
Peripheral but important to topic:
Wow: Israeli Scientists might have overcome one of the major drawbacks of H2ICE engines:
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
Very cool. Israel may well have saved the day for millions.
(If it significantly reduces the level of AGW, millions would indeed be saved.)
| 181 |
ausador Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:10:54pm |
re: #108 Alouette
I am here, just catching up.
What impact is this Iceland volcano cloud going to have on the climate? It’s already wreaked havoc with European aviation.
I am so glad that my daughter flew back to Israel last week, otherwise she’d be stuck with her kids who knows where.
It will temporarily cool the planet a little, the particulate matter in the atmosphere will block the sunlight (and also result in beautiful and spectacularly colorful sunsets).
Every significant eruption in recorded history has resulted in worldwide cooling for from 2 to 6 years depending on the magnitude of the eruption.
This is how I came up with my own plan to solve global warming for at least the duration of my lifetime, it is called “Drop about hundred nuclear weapons at once on Australia.” Not that many people live there, it is fairly dry and hence will create more dust to cool the planet. Sure, sure the Australians will probably be against it, but we need to keep our minds on what the real “greater good” is here.
///The end justifies the means…uhh…right?
| 182 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:11:05pm |
re: #167 windsagio
I have a suspicion that the ipad will be a fairly minor piece of technology in the long run, ‘cuz ulike the iPhone, its mainly an apple afficianado thing.
less iPhone, more Newton and Cube?
I think it’ll do well, but not be revolutionary.
| 183 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:11:21pm |
re: #166 pingjockey
Fine. We shut down all our power grids tomorrow, let everybody else do what they will. What will the affect on AGW be? Not much. I keep hearing all this crap. We have to do something, we are doing something, not much, nor enough IMO but something. How about other folks helping. Or is AGW gonna be like the 2004 Tsunami, IOW if us and Britain don’t help who will? The useless nitwits of Turtle Bay?
Way to miss my point.
Somebody has to set an example that a “green country” can work. Once that example has been set it can be followed by other nations.
| 184 |
Uncle Obdicut Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:11:39pm |
re: #180 Dark_Falcon
That would be the ultimate strike Israel could make against her enemies— move the world away from oil as the main source of energy.
| 185 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:11:57pm |
re: #182 WindUpBird
My thought is ‘normal mac fare’.
All the hipsters in the Powell’s coffeeshop will be using Ipads instead of macs to write their coming-of-age novels.
| 186 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:12:04pm |
re: #161 windsagio
One thing I’ll go along with LVQ on is that there’s a cabal (well not really a cabal, but its a kickass word, maybe a cadre) of stealth-agw deniers on here that go out of their way to disrpt the hell out of any AGW thread.
Unfortunately, right now the best way to do it is to bait (or, if you will, Troll) Ludwig.
That may be the case. At some point, though, ya gotta stop biting the worm…that’ll snuff the problem out at the source. Fires don’t burn without a pair of oxygen molecules;)
| 187 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:12:17pm |
re: #179 albusteve
Neither one of your are idiots or dolts.
| 188 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:12:42pm |
re: #186 Aceofwhat?
Oh sure. I hate talking about him in the third person when he’s here, but…
Anywys I agree with that point :p
| 189 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:12:43pm |
re: #167 windsagio
I have a suspicion that the ipad will be a fairly minor piece of technology in the long run, ‘cuz ulike the iPhone, its mainly an apple afficianado thing.
so for 1.99 your IPad app will find your stolen pad via GPS? and mail an email link to the local cops?
We had a shit load of great ideas this morning for apps…
If you are a developer..email Reine
| 190 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:13:11pm |
re: #184 Obdicut
That would be the ultimate strike Israel could make against her enemies— move the world away from oil as the main source of energy.
And hydrogen is good for sports cars 8-)
| 191 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:13:30pm |
re: #189 HoosierHoops
That app would work on any mobile device with a dataplan, and will be adapted as such. Nothing makes it unique to the ipad.
| 192 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:13:56pm |
re: #171 WindUpBird
ahaha he’s a lord the way Dre is a doctor :D
Updinged but technically, Dre has talent…so it’s not exactly the same…
| 193 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:13:57pm |
re: #101 Dark_Falcon
Point taken. I’ll dial it back.
DF I do actually like you a lot. I consider you a friend. However, it is neither necessary or possible to be liked by everyone. You need to be lees of a wuss.
| 194 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:14:19pm |
re: #190 WindUpBird
I read an interesting complaint about hydrogen, dunno if I can go for it or not. Essentially it was that electric would be better because with hydrogen we’re still beholden to the fuel companies >>
| 195 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:14:19pm |
re: #172 Obdicut
OOH!
Thanks, I’ll take a look!
Available now only as used, it looks like.
No matter to me.
| 196 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:14:27pm |
re: #186 Aceofwhat?
That may be the case. At some point, though, ya gotta stop biting the worm…that’ll snuff the problem out at the source. Fires don’t burn without a pair of oxygen molecules;)
Meh, AGW, threads here tend to be pretty luke warm and boring, since the science is pretty much settled and there’s not all that much to talk about.
Give us a healthcare or economic debate (not that the two aren’t interconnected) and we’ll get some sparks flying and some ideas exchanged!
| 197 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:14:30pm |
| 198 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:14:37pm |
re: #185 windsagio
My thought is ‘normal mac fare’.
All the hipsters in the Powell’s coffeeshop will be using Ipads instead of macs to write their coming-of-age novels.
I cannot imagine typing on glass without the tactile response of a keyboard. Blugh.
| 199 |
AlexRogan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:14:40pm |
re: #190 WindUpBird
And hydrogen is good for sports cars 8-)
Why not? Worked well for the Hindenberg…
///dripping
| 200 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:14:44pm |
| 201 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:15:04pm |
re: #183 jamesfirecat
Not missing your point. We can’t go green because we can’t build enough wind farms, or any nuc power plants at ALL! So all of this hand wringing about AGW being western civilizations fault is bullshit without solutions. Any solution thought up is shot down. Can’t build that wind farm there, birds may get kiled, no nucs, no place for the waste. So what do we do? I do no deny AGW. I do get pissed when no solution are offered that are allowed to work!
| 202 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:15:08pm |
re: #184 Obdicut
That would be the ultimate strike Israel could make against her enemies— move the world away from oil as the main source of energy.
Agreed. It would dry up much of the funding for Islamist terror.
| 203 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:15:28pm |
re: #198 WindUpBird
The point isn’t to finish the novel, duh!
Just get a nice corner seat at 11th and Burnside, and sit’n’sip with your hip new technology!
| 204 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:16:03pm |
re: #169 LudwigVanQuixote
And yet the energy sources are available and so is the technology to make electric vehicles. It is not that the technology is lacking, it is policy that is lacking because of the vested financial interests blocking such policy. This is of course coupled with the human will to simply deny real problems that are staring them in the face.
Which is my entire point in one succinct sentence. I would only add that that will to deny is a survival mechanism in itself. And that most humans are too busy doing what they have to to keep warm, fed, and housed to think more than two weeks ahead.
Science can do the thinking for them, but not the acting. Not even by government fiat. All the warnings and dire predictions in the world are not enough to shift the lava flow that is humanity in the aggregate.
There is no Hollywood happy ending here if we do not act. People either get that and get it soon or you will be correct and our civilization will have signed its own death warrant.
I’m not expecting a happy ending in this world.
| 205 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:16:06pm |
re: #193 LudwigVanQuixote
DF I do actually like you a lot. I consider you a friend. However, it is neither necessary or possible to be liked by everyone. You need to be lees of a wuss.
Do you make a habit of calling all your friends wusses?
| 206 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:16:47pm |
re: #193 LudwigVanQuixote
DF I do actually like you a lot. I consider you a friend. However, it is neither necessary or possible to be liked by everyone. You need to be lees of a wuss.
I understand. But I’m trying not to throw elbows when I shouldn’t. Sometimes in my life I’ve greatly offended people without realizing it. So, I tend to be very careful in how I come across.
| 207 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:16:49pm |
re: #167 windsagio
I have a suspicion that the ipad will be a fairly minor piece of technology in the long run, ‘cuz ulike the iPhone, its mainly an apple afficianado thing.
It looks to me there is potential for this to be very usable by folks with some disabilities, in a way a laptop or an iPhone cannot be.
208 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:16:52pm |
re: #59 reine.de.tout
And especially - where are the gals?
Room seems testosterone heavy to me.
*raises hand* I’m here. Been lurking off & on since the wee hours of the morning.
For some reason I always seem to be out of sync with the interesting threads, so they’re usually dead by the time I see them and want to say something. Then there are the times I want to jump in with fists swinging and realize that it’d probably be futile, so I back off and save my energy for other battles. In both cases I always learn something here though.
| 209 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:16:57pm |
re: #205 NJDhockeyfan
Lord knows I do.
I’ve called WUB a ‘fag’, 5 or 6 times on this blog, and just upthread I said he liked to dress up like a little girl!
| 210 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:17:34pm |
re: #207 reine.de.tout
There’s already touchscreen tech for those guys, and they can do without the Apple Tax.
| 211 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:17:50pm |
re: #205 NJDhockeyfan
Do you make a habit of calling all your friends wusses?
I am not offended by what Ludwig wrote, NJDHF. However, I thank you for looking out for me. upding.
| 212 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:17:52pm |
re: #199 talon_262
Why not? Worked well for the Hindenberg…
///dripping
The problem with your sarcasm is you don’t know what you’re talking about :)
| 213 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:17:55pm |
re: #198 WindUpBird
I cannot imagine typing on glass without the tactile response of a keyboard. Blugh.
are you kidding? my dream keyboard is a small device that simply projects key outlines onto any flat surface and reads my finger movements. do you know how fast i could type?
| 214 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:17:56pm |
re: #209 windsagio
Lord knows I do.
I’ve called WUB a ‘fag’, 5 or 6 times on this blog, and just upthread I said he liked to dress up like a little girl!
LOL
| 215 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:18:23pm |
re: #179 albusteve
Lud old friend, you are a complete dolt if you think that the history of man’s hacking away at earths resources is some sort of hellbound, premeditated attempt to make money in spite of worldwide personal knowledge of the inevitable collapse of civilization…but I won’t give you credit otherwise…once more, you simpleton, you miss by a mile
Ummm Steve, you are not my friend. You are a troll who enjoys stirring shit and is talking about things he knows nothing about.
The science is sound.
The consequences are well established.
The fossil fuel industry has such a hold on the world economy that breaking its grasp - even though technologically possible - is hampered by politics and the vested interests of the wealthy few who really don’t care to believe the science.
The leaders of the world know this. The corporations know this - just like the tobacco corporations knew they were selling something deadly and really did not have the morality to care.
The consequences are billions of deaths. We are actively marching towards those consequences.
The one who is part of the problem is you, who for reasons of ego, feel it is important to try to measure his cock next to mine and “win” by derailing discussions of fact and consequences.
| 216 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:18:30pm |
re: #203 windsagio
The point isn’t to finish the novel, duh!
Just get a nice corner seat at 11th and Burnside, and sit’n’sip with your hip new technology!
I don’t get people who do “work” in public like that. I mean, i can sketch in public, but when it coems to being really productive, i need a quieter space.
| 217 |
researchok Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:18:42pm |
re: #204 Cato the Elder
I’m not expecting a happy ending in this world.
Agreed. It used to be an army was needed to bring chaos.
Nowadays a lunatic zealot with a bathtub and a spoon can cripple a major city.
| 218 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:18:47pm |
| 219 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:19:52pm |
re: #205 NJDhockeyfan
Do you make a habit of calling all your friends wusses?
If I was a wuss I’d rather my friends call me out on it and try to make me a more self confident person than flounder in my wussiness….
| 220 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:20:00pm |
re: #208 CuriousLurker
*raises hand* I’m here. Been lurking off & on since the wee hours of the morning.
For some reason I always seem to be out of sync with the interesting threads, so they’re usually dead by the time I see them and want to say something. Then there are the times I want to jump in with fists swinging and realize that it’d probably be futile, so I back off and save my energy for other battles. In both cases I always learn something here though.
Hey!
I was looking for you to be logged in.
I got an e-mail back saying your in-box was full and my email could not be delivered.
I think the system may retry delivery later; but I’ll get the same message if your in-box is still full.
| 221 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:20:10pm |
| 222 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:20:20pm |
re: #208 CuriousLurker
*raises hand* I’m here. Been lurking off & on since the wee hours of the morning.
For some reason I always seem to be out of sync with the interesting threads, so they’re usually dead by the time I see them and want to say something. Then there are the times I want to jump in with fists swinging and realize that it’d probably be futile, so I back off and save my energy for other battles. In both cases I always learn something here though.
i vote you jump in with fists swinging. the last time you did, it was awesome.
| 223 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:20:24pm |
re: #213 Aceofwhat?
are you kidding? my dream keyboard is a small device that simply projects key outlines onto any flat surface and reads my finger movements. do you know how fast i could type?
I couldn’t do it, because I need the tactile feedback. I do this sorta hyper-huntandpeck thing that becomes a mess without a keyboard to work with.
| 224 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:20:32pm |
re: #208 CuriousLurker
*raises hand* I’m here. Been lurking off & on since the wee hours of the morning.
For some reason I always seem to be out of sync with the interesting threads, so they’re usually dead by the time I see them and want to say something. Then there are the times I want to jump in with fists swinging and realize that it’d probably be futile, so I back off and save my energy for other battles. In both cases I always learn something here though.
Also, you will get the hang of the thread rhythm. It takes awhile with the fast moving ones.
| 225 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:20:40pm |
re: #161 windsagio
One thing I’ll go along with LVQ on is that there’s a cabal (well not really a cabal, but its a kickass word, maybe a cadre) of stealth-agw deniers on here that go out of their way to disrpt the hell out of any AGW thread.
Unfortunately, right now the best way to do it is to bait (or, if you will, Troll) Ludwig.
I am not biting on any worms here.
By commenting like this you are only adding to the distraction.
What would be more effective is to join me in telling the no so stealthy AGW deniers where to shove their crap and not feed their ability to play crybaby.
| 226 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:20:51pm |
| 227 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:21:10pm |
re: #160 LudwigVanQuixote
I said I’m willing to agree to disagree. You think what you will. I have put my view out there and there really isn’t anything more to add. I do fear the unintended consequences of our insatiatiable appetites and irresponsible stewardship. But I am more fearful (and here I think Cato was right about us humans) of the right now threat from people who want to, or will, hurt real people who are alive right now. From acid attacks against women in Pakistan, to locally produced and foreign terrorists, to the growing unrest at our southern border, to the terrible decaying situation in Somalia. People are starving to death, being killed by their neighbors, and dying from preventable causes by the (millions? IDK). Now.
| 228 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:21:25pm |
re: #210 windsagio
There’s already touchscreen tech for those guys, and they can do without the Apple Tax.
I’m just reporting on reports from friends.
There’s a whole combination of things that make this attractive for use by folks with some types of disabilities.
| 229 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:21:27pm |
re: #204 Cato the Elder
I’m not expecting a happy ending in this world.
There will be an ending. I think we all know it.
Just occurred to me;
Religious folks have an understanding that the world will have an end.
Non-religious folks have an idea that the world will end.
What would be a happy one?
Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man?
Death by roo-ga-boo?
Probably not…
One day some little girl will be in a shop and have an incredible idea, and a Vogon…
| 230 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:21:48pm |
re: #225 LudwigVanQuixote
I feel you are mistaken, but you know I think a hell of a lot of you.
Lets end that here because us 2 agruing with it would make all the bastards happy >
| 231 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:21:50pm |
re: #204 Cato the Elder
I’m not expecting a happy ending in this world.
Hey Earth might still have a happy ending, its just that humanity is f***ing f***ed!
| 233 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:23:07pm |
re: #206 Dark_Falcon
I understand. But I’m trying not to throw elbows when I shouldn’t. Sometimes in my life I’ve greatly offended people without realizing it. So, I tend to be very careful in how I come across.
As we all should. Other times though it isn’t a matter of accidentally throwing elbows but more a matter of, if you want to take a stand, then do so - knowing that the consequences of that, in this metaphor, are throwing fists and not being afraid to do so.
| 234 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:23:22pm |
re: #228 reine.de.tout
Specialized technology would be better, for a number of reasons.
And again, “Apple Tax”.
| 235 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:23:44pm |
| 236 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:23:51pm |
re: #215 LudwigVanQuixote
The one who is part of the problem is you, who for reasons of ego, feel it is important to try to measure his cock next to mine and “win” by derailing discussions of fact and consequences.
We are all part of the problem. You, me, Steve, everyone on this board, everyone on the internet, every living, breathing human being on this planet.
There is no solution that does not involve at least halving the human population. Maybe cutting it by two thirds would work.
Otherwise, we’re screwed based on demographics alone.
| 237 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:23:55pm |
re: #215 LudwigVanQuixote
Ummm Steve, you are not my friend. You are a troll who enjoys stirring shit and is talking about things he knows nothing about.
The science is sound.
The consequences are well established.
The fossil fuel industry has such a hold on the world economy that breaking its grasp - even though technologically possible - is hampered by politics and the vested interests of the wealthy few who really don’t care to believe the science.
The leaders of the world know this. The corporations know this - just like the tobacco corporations knew they were selling something deadly and really did not have the morality to care.
The consequences are billions of deaths. We are actively marching towards those consequences.
The one who is part of the problem is you, who for reasons of ego, feel it is important to try to measure his cock next to mine and “win” by derailing discussions of fact and consequences.
I’ve never denied the science, so the rest of your tripe is bullshit…I challenge your endless crap and the best you can do is call me a troll….pretty weak…if you are alive, you are as much a part of the problem as me…probably more so by a wide margin…the difference is, I don’t go around accusing you of trolling simply because you don’t seem to grasp your own role in our inevitable demise….you think you are somehow above it all and you are not….your over the top accusations and comparisons are laughable
238 |
Ojoe Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:24:05pm |
Step outside of politics and controversy & just look.
| 239 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:24:19pm |
re: #229 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
There will be an ending. I think we all know it.
Just occurred to me;
Religious folks have an understanding that the world will have an end.
Non-religious folks have an idea that the world will end.What would be a happy one?
Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man?
Death by roo-ga-boo?Probably not…
One day some little girl will be in a shop and have an incredible idea, and a Vogon…
No, no, no, the entire universe will be destroyed when we’re testing out a new type of fuel.
So it goes….
| 240 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:25:03pm |
re: #239 jamesfirecat
“No antimatter research on planet!!”
| 241 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:25:15pm |
re: #205 NJDhockeyfan
Do you make a habit of calling all your friends wusses?
Since he is a friend he understood me.
As to you… well… It really is not as if you are here to contribute to the real topic so please do us all the courtesy of stopping the fronting.
| 242 |
AlexRogan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:25:31pm |
re: #212 WindUpBird
The problem with your sarcasm is you don’t know what you’re talking about :)
Oh, I know those hydrogen cells/tanks are built like a proverbial..uhh, tank. Hell, we have had CNG vehicles around for decades with no more problems in collisions than traditionally-fueled vehicles, AFAIK.
I was just being snarky… ;-P
| 243 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:25:33pm |
Oh great, the Obama administration has no strategy for dealing with Iran.
Gates Says U.S. Lacks Policy to Curb Iran’s Nuclear Drive
WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has warned in a secret three-page memorandum to top White House officials that the United States does not have an effective long-range policy for dealing with Iran’s steady progress toward nuclear capability, according to government officials familiar with the document.
Several officials said the highly classified analysis, written in January to President Obama’s national security adviser, Gen. James L. Jones, touched off an intense effort inside the Pentagon, the White House and the intelligence agencies to develop new options for Mr. Obama. They include a revised set of military alternatives, still under development, to be considered should diplomacy and sanctions fail to force Iran to change course.
| 244 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:25:37pm |
re: #230 windsagio
I feel you are mistaken, but you know I think a hell of a lot of you.
Lets end that here because us 2 agruing with it would make all the bastards happy >
who are these bastards?….hahaha!…who?
| 246 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:26:10pm |
re: #240 windsagio
Hahaha! I was thinking that myself. “Hands off Atomic Particles”
| 248 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:26:29pm |
re: #239 jamesfirecat
No, no, no, the entire universe will be destroyed when we’re testing out a new type of fuel.
So it goes…
so when the universe is destroyed, where will the debris go?
| 249 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:26:32pm |
re: #220 reine.de.tout
I got an e-mail back saying your in-box was full and my email could not be delivered.
I think the system may retry delivery later; but I’ll get the same message if your in-box is still full.
Argh! Thanks for pointing that out as it didn’t even occur to me for some reason. I’ll increase the mailbox size.
re: #224 reine.de.tout
Also, you will get the hang of the thread rhythm. It takes awhile with the fast moving ones.
Yeah, the posts fly by really fast & furious sometimes. Being a slow, error-prone typist doesn’t help. ;)
| 250 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:26:33pm |
re: #223 WindUpBird
I couldn’t do it, because I need the tactile feedback. I do this sorta hyper-huntandpeck thing that becomes a mess without a keyboard to work with.
oh NOES you do not hunt and peck…i’d never have pegged you for it.
i actually type faster when i don’t look at the keyboard. it’s a good topic when i want to be self-depricating with employees (a favorite managerial tactic to keep the ice broken). typing while staring off into space…you know they wonder what i’ve just been smoking. everybody laughs when i bring it up because i know i look loony.
| 251 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:27:02pm |
re: #247 windsagio
I trust they know who they are :D
show me who the deniers are…who are these bastards?
| 252 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:27:03pm |
re: #243 NJDhockeyfan
Well, given that there is no effective long-term policy, I understand him being unhappy.
| 253 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:27:22pm |
re: #249 CuriousLurker
Yeah, the posts fly by really fast & furious sometimes. Being a slow, error-prone typist doesn’t help. ;)
If you don’t get the e-mails and want them, let me know and i’ll resend.
| 254 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:27:24pm |
re: #248 brookly red
so when the universe is destroyed, where will the debris go?
It will become the universe.
Globally? We the shit.
Universally? We ain’t shit.
| 255 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:27:33pm |
re: #248 brookly red
so when the universe is destroyed, where will the debris go?
Clearly you philistines don’t realize a Vonnegut reference when you see one.
| 256 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:27:34pm |
re: #236 Cato the Elder
We are all part of the problem. You, me, Steve, everyone on this board, everyone on the internet, every living, breathing human being on this planet.
There is no solution that does not involve at least halving the human population. Maybe cutting it by two thirds would work.
Otherwise, we’re screwed based on demographics alone.
The population reduction debate is separate, but related to the AGW debate.
You are correct that if we killed hlf the population it would go a long way to preventing the problem of too many mouths and not enough food or water.
OR
We could and can get off of fossil fuels, promote our own domestic energy, revitalize our economy and not have to kill anyone.
| 257 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:27:45pm |
re: #243 NJDhockeyfan
Oh great, the Obama administration has no strategy for dealing with Iran.
I wonder if Gates said that to try to put pressure on Obama. If so, then I give him credit for it, since Obama needs to act and quickly.
| 259 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:28:21pm |
re: #243 NJDhockeyfan
We haven’t really had a strategy for dealing with the mad mullahs since Carter. Short of trying to take out their nuc facility, there is nothing we can do. Russia and China will veto any sanctions with consequences.
| 260 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:28:30pm |
re: #237 albusteve
Steve, steve, do you really think you are fooling anyone?
| 261 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:28:48pm |
re: #255 jamesfirecat
Clearly you philistines don’t realize a Vonnegut reference when you see one.
/philistines? don’t make me strap this vest on…
| 262 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:29:05pm |
re: #253 reine.de.tout
If you don’t get the e-mails and want them, let me know and i’ll resend.
K, thanks. I’m gonna go fix things right now so I don’t forget.
| 263 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:29:14pm |
re: #241 LudwigVanQuixote
Since he is a friend he understood me.
As to you… well… It really is not as if you are here to contribute to the real topic so please do us all the courtesy of stopping the fronting.
Dude, you know I like you, and I agree with your science. But what the hell? Would you like a thread where everyone just said “yeah, that Monckton is an ape-shit asshole!”, then prayerfully folded their hands and nodded to everything you say?
It would be dead in five minutes, and all the AGW piety and anxiety would still not make a shit-bit of difference in the outcome.
| 264 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:29:16pm |
re: #248 brookly red
so when the universe is destroyed, where will the debris go?
God will sweep it under His rug and start over.
/
| 266 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:30:23pm |
re: #241 LudwigVanQuixote
Since he is a friend he understood me.
As to you… well… It really is not as if you are here to contribute to the real topic so please do us all the courtesy of stopping the fronting.
now i’m just kind of impressed that you used ‘fronting’ in its proper context…
| 267 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:30:39pm |
re: #243 NJDhockeyfan
Oh great, the Obama administration has no strategy for dealing with Iran.
Your irrelevant comment aside, it sounds like they’re actively working on one.
Bush didn’t have a fucking clue, either.
| 268 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:31:25pm |
re: #260 LudwigVanQuixote
Steve, steve, do you really think you are fooling anyone?
I’m not trying to fool anyone….I’m pointing out your hyper aggressive approach is harming our point of view
| 269 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:32:05pm |
re: #267 Cato the Elder
Your irrelevant comment aside, it sounds like they’re actively working on one.
Bush didn’t have a fucking clue, either.
Bush is not the president. The world has a problem right now and blaming Bush endlessly isn’t going to solve it.
| 270 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:32:16pm |
re: #256 LudwigVanQuixote
We can’t get off fossil fuels, not yet. I want to see you feed a major metropolitan area with no trains, semi trucks, or delivery trucks. Those all take diesel. Period.
| 271 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:32:22pm |
re: #267 Cato the Elder
Let me repeat what I say every time this comes up.
Outside of actively attacking them, there is no way to stop a country that wants nukes from getting them, if they want them badly enough.
| 272 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:32:38pm |
re: #256 LudwigVanQuixote
The population reduction debate is separate, but related to the AGW debate.
You are correct that if we killed hlf the population it would go a long way to preventing the problem of too many mouths and not enough food or water.
OR
We could and can get off of fossil fuels, promote our own domestic energy, revitalize our economy and not have to kill anyone.
way too late for that….the time/solutions numbers don’t add up
| 274 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:33:15pm |
re: #256 LudwigVanQuixote
The population reduction debate is separate, but related to the AGW debate.
You are correct that if we killed hlf the population it would go a long way to preventing the problem of too many mouths and not enough food or water.
OR
We could and can get off of fossil fuels, promote our own domestic energy, revitalize our economy and not have to kill anyone.
Yes, I suppose “we” could - if we weren’t a 300-million-strong sub-aggregate of humanity that also just follows the course of least resistance.
| 275 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:33:32pm |
re: #269 NJDhockeyfan
Bush is not the president. The world has a problem right now and blaming Bush endlessly isn’t going to solve it.
well not to blame any one, but there really are 2 choices. let it happen or not. it isn’t a pretty call to make.
| 276 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:33:36pm |
re: #273 windsagio
&($#(*$#@ less than sign, foiled again!
| 277 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:33:38pm |
re: #249 CuriousLurker
Yeah, the posts fly by really fast & furious sometimes. Being a slow, error-prone typist doesn’t help. ;)
I’m a fast typist with error-prone thinking…you’re not at a disadvantage;)
| 278 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:34:33pm |
re: #269 NJDhockeyfan
Bush is not the president. The world has a problem right now and blaming Bush endlessly isn’t going to solve it.
If you buy a house, and the old owner ignored a faulty bit of plumbing, yes its your job to fix it now that you owned the home, but the problem wouldn’t have been dropped in your lab if they hadn’t dropped the ball in the first place.
| 279 |
ausador Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:35:01pm |
re: #215 LudwigVanQuixote
Society and civilization always learns and grows by going through bad, even horrific, experiences then trying to prevent them from ever happening again. AGW is just going to be another to add to the list of humankinds painful “growing changes.” The masses surely aren’t learning enough nearly fast enough to enable the political will to actually do any of the more needed changes.
Unlike you I believe the death toll from flooding, migration, famine, etc. will only be at most a few hundred million, not “billions.” This is not going to be an extinction event, but it is going to be a painful and lasting lesson, one we need to learn apparently.
| 280 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:35:26pm |
“I do not envy you the headache you will have when you awake. But for now, rest well and dream of large women.”
I just thought of that quote from “The Princess Bride”, now I’m sleepy.
Y’all be excellent to each other.
G’night…
| 281 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:35:36pm |
re: #269 NJDhockeyfan
Bush is not the president. The world has a problem right now and blaming Bush endlessly isn’t going to solve it.
I’m not blaming Bush, you tool. I’m saying that he didn’t have a strategy either.
Apparently the Obama administration is working on it. Send your brilliant suggestions to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
282 |
SteveC Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:35:43pm |
Christopher Monckton and His Traveling Snake Oil Pseudoscience Show.
It’s Brother Love’s Travellin’ Salvation Show
Pack up the babies and grab the old ladies
And everyone goes, ‘cause everyone knows
‘Bout Brother Love’s show
| 283 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:36:08pm |
re: #271 windsagio
Let me repeat what I say every time this comes up.
Outside of actively attacking them, there is no way to stop a country that wants nukes from getting them, if they want them badly enough.
I would not be opposed to actively attacking them.
| 284 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:36:40pm |
re: #275 brookly red
well not to blame any one, but there really are 2 choices. let it happen or not. it isn’t a pretty call to make.
You are correct. I see two scenarios:
1. We do nothing, Iran gets the bomb, war breaks out.
2. We bomb Iran before they get the bomb, war breaks out.
Not looking good.
| 285 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:37:14pm |
re: #278 jamesfirecat
It wasn’t Bush, it wasn’t Obama, all this crap stared waaay back when Jimmah Peanut was prez, or even before. There is nothing, short of an attack we can do to stop them from getting the bomb. Why Russia and China don’t care if islamic extremists have the bomb I don’t know.
| 286 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:37:33pm |
| 287 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:37:36pm |
re: #242 talon_262
Oh, I know those hydrogen cells/tanks are built like a proverbial..uhh, tank. Hell, we have had CNG vehicles around for decades with no more problems in collisions than traditionally-fueled vehicles, AFAIK.
I was just being snarky… ;-P
haha fair enough :D
| 288 |
SteveC Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:37:37pm |
re: #284 NJDhockeyfan
You are correct. I see two scenarios:
1. We do nothing, Iran gets the bomb, war breaks out.
2. We bomb Iran before they get the bomb, war breaks out.Not looking good.
Damned if we do and damned if we don’t.
Damn it!
| 289 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:38:33pm |
re: #283 Cato the Elder
I would not be opposed to actively attacking them.
me neither…it’s simply a no no…what else can you do to act in the best interests of free people….I hate idealizing this subject
| 290 |
Stanley Sea Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:39:14pm |
Well, IF a war breaks out we are looking at a draft folks. Fun times all around.
| 291 |
pingjockey Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:39:24pm |
re: #286 windsagio
It will gaurentee a response by Israel. Iran has actively called for Israels destruction on numerous occasions.
| 292 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:39:33pm |
| 293 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:39:37pm |
re: #278 jamesfirecat
If you buy a house, and the old owner ignored a faulty bit of plumbing, yes its your job to fix it now that you owned the home, but the problem wouldn’t have been dropped in your lab if they hadn’t dropped the ball in the first place.
Somebody please take the It’s Not My Fault™ sign off president Obama’s desk and replace it with president Truman’s The Buck Stops Here sign. Anything will help at this moment.
| 294 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:40:21pm |
re: #291 pingjockey
Then its Israel’s problem, not ours :P
| 296 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:40:52pm |
re: #293 NJDhockeyfan
You crafted this ‘don’t blame Bush’ thing out of whole straw.
| 297 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:40:55pm |
re: #284 NJDhockeyfan
You are correct. I see two scenarios:
1. We do nothing, Iran gets the bomb, war breaks out.
2. We bomb Iran before they get the bomb, war breaks out.Not looking good.
Iran is a cakewalk…all we need to do is set them back a couple of decades, problem solved…then in 2020, whack them again, like a dog…if they get frustrated and take it out on Israel, then that will be the end of the Mullahs…think positive
| 298 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:40:56pm |
re: #285 pingjockey
It wasn’t Bush, it wasn’t Obama, all this crap stared waaay back when Jimmah Peanut was prez, or even before. There is nothing, short of an attack we can do to stop them from getting the bomb. Why Russia and China don’t care if islamic extremists have the bomb I don’t know.
well I am sure they do but they look at 2 things, 1. we may stop them & have to deal with the repercussions. or 2. they will get the bomb and we will have to deal with the repercussions. Russia & China both know it is not aimed at them.
yet.
| 299 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:41:39pm |
This is four years old, the demand for energy has risen greatly since this was written :
Last year the academic quarterly Daedalus published an article by Daniel Nocera of MIT in which he laid out a credible and alarming vision of this world’s future energy demands. He pointed out that in 2002 the whole world burned energy at a rate of 13.3 TW [terawatts] and he calculated that if 9 billion people adopt the current standard of living for a US resident the world would need an astronomical 102 TW of energy in 2050. He also pointed out that If everyone adopts Equatorial Guinea’s current living standards, we will still need 30.4 TW by 2050.
Any solution to AGW concerns must address the reality of rising demand - if one fuel is blocked, then another will be used. Clean fuels must be exported everywhere that’s one reason I am liking small nuclear and exploring all possibilities for clean energy because everything in the mix will be needed.
Let’s face reality: if people can’t cook with gas or electric then they will cook with wood or charcoal. So much for that forest land.
If people can’t afford gas, they will use coal. So much for carbon declining…
The conservative consensus estimate back then was that 70 petwatt hours of Electricity would need to be online for worldwide demand by 2050 — imagine what will happen if it’s not there….
| 300 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:41:46pm |
re: #290 Stanley Sea
Well, IF a war breaks out we are looking at a draft folks. Fun times all around.
And Iran rhymes with Vietnam, so we won’t even need to think up new protest songs!
| 301 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:42:16pm |
re: #263 Cato the Elder
Dude, you know I like you, and I agree with your science. But what the hell? Would you like a thread where everyone just said “yeah, that Monckton is an ape-shit asshole!”, then prayerfully folded their hands and nodded to everything you say?
It would be dead in five minutes, and all the AGW piety and anxiety would still not make a shit-bit of difference in the outcome.
Cato,
Your ability to cast this as what it is not is rather offensive - however much I like you.
What I would like is the following:
1. A discussion of science more than the thin skins and egos of the deniers.
2. A discussion of how to get the facts out and what the facts are.
3. A discussion of what individuals can do and actually are doing about this.
4. The same level of contempt directed at deniers as we would at evolution deniers.
5. YOU personally to stop with the Cassandra nihilist shtick. It is still not too late to do something.
6. People to understand the extreme gravity of the situation. BS discussions about anything else are part of the problem too.
7. People other than me and a few others like Thanos, OB and Free and Charles - to bring science of their own to this.
8. More questions like the one from Alouette about the volcano- where an actual science discussion follows.
| 302 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:42:29pm |
re: #69 albusteve
Iran is a cakewalk…all we need to do is set them back a couple of decades, problem solved…then in 2020, whack them again, like a dog…if they get frustrated and take it out on Israel, then that will be the end of the Mullahs…think positive
Further back a couple? Well I guess GEICO could use a few more cavemen.//
| 303 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:42:31pm |
re: #300 jamesfirecat
“Obama” doesn’t rhyme with “LBJ”, so no ‘how many kids have you killed today?’ rhyme >>
| 304 |
SteveC Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:42:40pm |
re: #298 brookly red
Russia & China both know it is not aimed at them.
yet.
We’ve discussed that idea before, I believe it is called “Feeding the Alligator.”
| 305 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:43:09pm |
re: #290 Stanley Sea
Well, IF a war breaks out we are looking at a draft folks. Fun times all around.
We should have a draft already.
| 306 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:43:19pm |
re: #285 pingjockey
It wasn’t Bush, it wasn’t Obama, all this crap stared waaay back when Jimmah Peanut was prez, or even before. There is nothing, short of an attack we can do to stop them from getting the bomb. Why Russia and China don’t care if islamic extremists have the bomb I don’t know.
because they both hate our guts with a passion…something BO doesn’t seem to understand…he wants to engage in some silly strokefest, exactly what both countries are masters of…play right into their nefarious hands…maybe after he get’s bitchslapped enough, he’ll learn
| 307 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:43:23pm |
re: #286 windsagio
I think that’ll backfire, but thats a different, and complex situation.
re: #284 NJDhockeyfan
Iran getting the bomb in no way guarantees war.
I’m afraid that you are in error, IMO. The religiously-based aggression of the mullahs practically guarantees that they would either use a nuke for murder of for blackmail. Either way will mean war.
| 308 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:44:06pm |
re: #279 ausador
Society and civilization always learns and grows by going through bad, even horrific, experiences then trying to prevent them from ever happening again. AGW is just going to be another to add to the list of humankinds painful “growing changes.” The masses surely aren’t learning enough nearly fast enough to enable the political will to actually do any of the more needed changes.
Unlike you I believe the death toll from flooding, migration, famine, etc. will only be at most a few hundred million, not “billions.” This is not going to be an extinction event, but it is going to be a painful and lasting lesson, one we need to learn apparently.
I did not say that we would go extinct - however you are wrong on a few points.
Humans will not likely go extinct. MANY other species that we like will.
Humans will not go extinct. Our civilization as we know it will only collapse.
If only hundreds of millions and not billions die - and of course I hope that is the case, is that really all OK then?
| 309 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:44:10pm |
re: #290 Stanley Sea
Well, IF a war breaks out we are looking at a draft folks. Fun times all around.
there will be no war with Iran….maybe a spat, but nothing more….no draft
| 310 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:44:38pm |
re: #304 SteveC
We’ve discussed that idea before, I believe it is called “Feeding the Alligator.”
well yes and no… If Iran messed with Russia would they still be there tomorrow?
| 311 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:44:39pm |
re: #305 Cato the Elder
We should have a draft already.
Not a good idea. It would greatly reduce our military’s fighting effectiveness.
| 312 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:45:20pm |
re: #305 Cato the Elder
We should have a draft already.
I fucking agree with this. I think a draft would not only make us a stronger army, but make Americans more prone to caring about if we got in a war by making them realize it might be their sons or daughters who were getting caught up in it.
Of course if we did a draft we’d probably also have to unbunch our panties and let women serve on the front lines…
| 313 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:45:29pm |
| 314 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:46:34pm |
re: #307 Dark_Falcon
I’m afraid that you are in error, IMO. The religiously-based aggression of the mullahs practically guarantees that they would either use a nuke for murder of for blackmail. Either way will mean war.
I think they will use a nuke because they think it will coax the well troll out from his hole. I honestly believe they will pass a few nukes to Israel’s enemies to make sure mushroom clouds rise above Israel.
| 315 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:47:28pm |
re: #302 Escaped Hillbilly
Further back a couple? Well I guess GEICO could use a few more cavemen.//
you have it…in the meantime those people will become even more frustrated with the Mullahs dead end fixation on icing Israel
| 316 |
Stanley Sea Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:47:31pm |
| 317 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:47:31pm |
re: #312 jamesfirecat
Yeah exactly, we don’t want the average citizen to feel the cost of war, they’d be less likely to support it.
I’d like to add, with no goddamn deferments
| 318 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:47:44pm |
re: #305 Cato the Elder
We should have a draft already.
most ex-draftees i’ve had the pleasure of talking to disagree. a volunteer force presents far more advantages than disadvantages.
| 319 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:47:53pm |
KosKidz: Full Mental Beck
Seriously, This is the voice of the Republican party. Very much not good at all.
| 320 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:48:13pm |
re: #313 windsagio
They know the cost, and if they got to running a country they wouldn’t be willing to pay it.
re: #305 Cato the Elder
But then we’d have real antiwar protests! The military doesn’t want that >> (also its probably unconstitutional)
A draft is unconstitutional? How ever did we fight WWI and WWII?
| 321 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:48:48pm |
re: #311 Dark_Falcon
Not a good idea. It would greatly reduce our military’s fighting effectiveness.
well we probably would not need a draft, we would need to get a whole bunch of stuff into that region quickly though… we could store it in places like Iraq & Afghanistan and the it would be rel…
never mind.
| 322 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:48:48pm |
re: #305 Cato the Elder
We should have a draft already.
permanent, for everybody similar to Israels system…I could go for that…it certainly would not make us weaker
| 323 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:48:58pm |
re: #277 Aceofwhat?
I’m a fast typist with error-prone thinking…you’re not at a disadvantage;)
LOL, I’m pretty good at error-prone thinking too. That’s one of the reasons I seek out places with diversity. There’s an element of self-interest in that seeking though—the more I learn about what others think and note my reactions to them, the more I learn about myself. It’s not always a pleasant process, but I believe it benefits me in the long run.
324 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:49:02pm |
re: #320 Cato the Elder
A draft is unconstitutional? How ever did we fight WWI and WWII?
And Korea and Vietnam
| 325 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:49:04pm |
re: #320 Cato the Elder
Its not like I’m sure, thats just the impression I got somewhere. Isn’t there something in the Constitution about impressment tho’?
| 326 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:49:19pm |
re: #323 CuriousLurker
LOL, I’m pretty good at error-prone thinking too. That’s one of the reasons I seek out places with diversity. There’s an element of self-interest in that seeking though—the more I learn about what others think and note my reactions to them, the more I learn about myself. It’s not always a pleasant process, but I believe it benefits me in the long run.
Ditto.
| 327 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:49:52pm |
re: #318 Aceofwhat?
most ex-draftees i’ve had the pleasure of talking to disagree. a volunteer force presents far more advantages than disadvantages.
An all volunteer force will beat an army of conscripts, that’s one of many things you can learn by reading Starship Troopers.
However on the other hand, a draft would make the American people less chickenhawkish which I think would be a good thing.
That said you can tell I’m a liberal because I’m in favor of selling out the strength of the army out of the hope that people will have less use for it…
328 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:50:04pm |
re: #312 jamesfirecat
I fucking agree with this. I think a draft would not only make us a stronger army, but make Americans more prone to caring about if we got in a war by making them realize it might be their sons or daughters who were getting caught up in it.
Of course if we did a draft we’d probably also have to unbunch our panties and let women serve on the front lines…
a. A team of malcontents makes for a stronger army?
b. Parents will be pissed. Shocker. Something about a draft… (but you know this)
c. Women do. Right now. Today.
| 329 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:50:12pm |
| 330 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:50:21pm |
Check out the wicked pictures of the Iceland volcano. The second one down is creepy.
| 331 |
SteveC Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:50:21pm |
re: #310 brookly red
well yes and no… If Iran messed with Russia would they still be there tomorrow?
Yep! It’s the weekend, you know.
But come Monday morning, when the dayshift comes back to work….
| 332 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:50:36pm |
re: #84 jamesfirecat
I fucking agree with this. I think a draft would not only make us a stronger army, but make Americans more prone to caring about if we got in a war by making them realize it might be their sons or daughters who were getting caught up in it.
Of course if we did a draft we’d probably also have to unbunch our panties and let women serve on the front lines…
WE DO!! Please catch up with the times. Do you mean serve in the Infantry on the front? For God’s sake why? We aren’t needed there, wouldn’t do well there, and have no desire. Plus modern warfare, which war with Iran would be, doesn’t rely as heavily on Infantry bodies being thrown at the problem. I agree the draft is not the good idea some people think it is because draftees don’t make the best most motivated Soldiers. However, it could work, has worked, and probably would make people care a little more. (But I have heard more civilians say they want us out of Iraq and Afghanistan than Soldiers and their families.) So maybe not by much.
| 333 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:50:37pm |
re: #311 Dark_Falcon
Not a good idea. It would greatly reduce our military’s fighting effectiveness.
wrong…it would greatly increase our readiness, not all of these extra draftees would be combat troops, only as many as needed…there is much else they could learn and do
| 334 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:50:54pm |
re: #320 Cato the Elder
A draft is unconstitutional? How ever did we fight WWI and WWII?
In order to avoid any potential misunderstanding, I would like you to read my 301.
| 335 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:51:48pm |
reine, it’s fixed now. If I don’t receive your email by tomorrow, I’ll know your mail server has given up attempting to deliver and will ask you to resend.
| 336 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:51:59pm |
re: #307 Dark_Falcon
I’m afraid that you are in error, IMO. The religiously-based aggression of the mullahs practically guarantees that they would either use a nuke for murder of for blackmail. Either way will mean war.
call it whatever you want…Iran is a relatively simple problem imo…IF we play hardball
| 337 |
Stanley Sea Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:53:09pm |
re: #330 NJDhockeyfan
Check out the wicked pictures of the Iceland volcano. The second one down is creepy.
haha! Don’t want to scare anyone do they?
| 338 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:53:16pm |
re: #336 albusteve
call it whatever you want…Iran is a relatively simple problem imo…IF we play hardball
We’re still top notch nation de-builders, it wouldn’t even be sending soldiers, it would just be pushing buttons.
Jon Stewart.
| 340 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:53:53pm |
re: #320 Cato the Elder
A draft is unconstitutional? How ever did we fight WWI and WWII?
just bullshit…
| 341 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:54:27pm |
| 342 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:54:39pm |
re: #325 windsagio
Its not like I’m sure, thats just the impression I got somewhere. Isn’t there something in the Constitution about impressment tho’?
find us some links to support your self
| 343 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:55:06pm |
re: #319 Killgore Trout
KosKidz: Full Mental Beck
Seriously, This is the voice of the Republican party. Very much not good at all.
Had to cut that off only a quarter of the way in.. there are only so many Beckian fallacies a sane mind can stand before it collapses into unstoppable laughter.
| 344 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:55:14pm |
re: #342 albusteve
Too lazy, I’m perfectly willing to take you guys’ word for it.
| 345 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:55:28pm |
re: #330 NJDhockeyfan
Check out the wicked pictures of the Iceland volcano. The second one down is creepy.
I posted this earlier, here it is again for those who missed it and might be interested:
How to pronounce that volcano name that has every letter in the alphabet.
| 346 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:56:13pm |
re: #327 jamesfirecat
However on the other hand, a draft would make the American people less chickenhawkish which I think would be a good thing.
Que? You really think that families with a loved one in the military are more anti-war than your average liberal?
| 347 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:56:26pm |
re: #325 windsagio
Its not like I’m sure, thats just the impression I got somewhere. Isn’t there something in the Constitution about impressment tho’?
We fought the war of 1812, amongst other things, in order to prevent the British from seizing our vessels and impressing our sailors.
However, a draft is perfectly constitutional. Of course it is.
| 348 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:56:52pm |
re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote
argh, now I have to look it up, I hate that kind of logic!
| 349 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:56:55pm |
re: #345 reine.de.tout
I posted this earlier, here it is again for those who missed it and might be interested:
How to pronounce that volcano name that has every letter in the alphabet.
LOL…it sounds like someone is playing a record backwards.
| 350 |
Stanley Sea Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:56:57pm |
re: #345 reine.de.tout
I posted this earlier, here it is again for those who missed it and might be interested:
How to pronounce that volcano name that has every letter in the alphabet.
NO!! omg
351 |
bratwurst Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:57:50pm |
re: #92 albusteve
poodle…did you get a glossie yet?
and the great albusteve anti-name calling campaign of 2010 marches on…
| 352 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:58:08pm |
re: #346 Aceofwhat?
Que? You really think that families with a loved one in the military are more anti-war than your average liberal?
No, I think that if your average family was worried that their son or daughter might stop being a CPA or a computer programmer and go carry a gun and put their lives on the line of the country they would be more reluctant to let the US go to war on a whim.
| 353 |
SteveC Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:58:11pm |
re: #333 albusteve
wrong…it would greatly increase our readiness, not all of these extra draftees would be combat troops, only as many as needed…there is much else they could learn and do
Because of my heart, I’ve led a pretty sedentary life. I’m clumsy, not good with my hands, and consider it a major accomplishment if I go to a party and don’t wind up floating in the punchbowl. And I think it is because I have never done some of the little things that others have.
If I could make it through the basic training/physical aspects, I’d like to have served somehow. I think that it would have been good for me.
| 354 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:58:17pm |
re: #350 Stanley Sea
NO!! omg
I must have listened to it 20 times and I still can’t say it.
I’ll keep practicing. I could really impress somebody with that.
| 355 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:58:18pm |
re: #348 windsagio
so I did look it up Yes, but maybe not if there’s no declared war.
| 356 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:58:27pm |
| 357 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:58:29pm |
re: #344 windsagio
Too lazy, I’m perfectly willing to take you guys’ word for it.
Congress would have to declare war…otherwise what we are proposing would probably take Congressional law to instigate a permanent draft regardless of any declaration of war…the world is constantly at war any way
| 358 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:59:16pm |
re: #105 albusteve
wrong…it would greatly increase our readiness, not all of these extra draftees would be combat troops, only as many as needed…there is much else they could learn and do
No, they would become a big a— problem for the NCOs that have to deal with their crap. I have enough of these worthless mamby-pambies now. I don’t have time to escort them to their appointments, go find them in their rooms, meet them at their DUI classes, stand with them in the 1SG/CDR’s office etc., etc. Please don’t burden any part of our military with these people. If they want to join, they will. We don’t need half the ones we got though the politicians and generals can’t be convinced. By the way, NO part of the Army doesn’t go to war. Think the same may be true for other forces.
| 359 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 7:59:24pm |
re: #357 albusteve
Congress would have to declare war…otherwise what we are proposing would probably take Congressional law to instigate a permanent draft regardless of any declaration of war…the world is constantly at war any way
Vietnam was not a declared war yet there was a draft.
| 360 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:00:09pm |
re: #351 bratwurst
and the great albusteve anti-name calling campaign of 2010 marches on…
people that join a running thread just to criticize and pile on are poodles…are you a poodle?
| 361 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:00:18pm |
re: #359 NJDhockeyfan
You (The Devils) lost home ice advantage. Nervous !?!?
| 362 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:00:21pm |
re: #359 NJDhockeyfan
And it was challenged, see my link above :p
I love it when appelate say ‘maybe, ask the supreme court’ and the supremes say ‘fuck it, too much effort!’
| 363 |
SteveC Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:00:31pm |
re: #354 reine.de.tout
I must have listened to it 20 times and I still can’t say it.
I’ll keep practicing. I could really impress somebody with that.
You know that name translates to “Big hill that goes BOOM!”, don’t you? :)
| 364 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:01:09pm |
re: #359 NJDhockeyfan
Vietnam was not a declared war yet there was a draft.
yes, ordered by Congress…the POTUS can fight but he cannot draft, only Congress can do that
| 365 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:01:31pm |
re: #359 NJDhockeyfan
Vietnam was not a declared war yet there was a draft.
True but at that time there was a Congressionally passed law that governed conscription.
| 366 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:02:13pm |
re: #312 jamesfirecat
I fucking agree with this. I think a draft would … make Americans more prone to caring about if we got in a war by making them realize it might be their sons or daughters who were getting caught up in it.
I disagree with everything else in the post, but this part is spot on.
The chicken hawk wing of the right would certainly be a lot less eager to rattle sabers if they actually had a stake in it.
| 367 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:02:13pm |
re: #352 jamesfirecat
No, I think that if your average family was worried that their son or daughter might stop being a CPA or a computer programmer and go carry a gun and put their lives on the line of the country they would be more reluctant to let the US go to war on a whim.
isn’t that kinda what i said, minus the economy-killing part? families already had members in the military…no need to speculate. how did they vote?
| 368 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:02:27pm |
re: #361 sattv4u2
You (The Devils) lost home ice advantage. Nervous !?!?
Naaa, Brodeur can’t be beat when he’s in the zone.
| 369 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:02:34pm |
re: #364 albusteve
yes, ordered by Congress…the POTUS can fight but he cannot draft, only Congress can do that
the question is where does a ‘peacetime draft’ come from?…it would have to come from Congress just the others
| 370 |
bratwurst Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:03:30pm |
re: #360 albusteve
people that join a running thread just to criticize and pile on are poodles…are you a poodle?
As you said in your own #76
attacking people with childish names accomplishes nothing
Are you really a “do as I say, not as I do” kinda guy?
| 371 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:03:52pm |
re: #119 LudwigVanQuixote
We fought the war of 1812, amongst other things, in order to prevent the British from seizing our vessels and impressing our sailors.
However, a draft is perfectly constitutional. Of course it is.
Ok, you are confounding two different concepts, other countries impressing our citizens into their service vs our country pressing Soldiers and Sailors into service of their own country. I’m thinking this has probably been brought before the Supreme Ct before, somewhere around the 60s? IDK.
| 372 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:03:58pm |
re: #353 SteveC
Because of my heart, I’ve led a pretty sedentary life. I’m clumsy, not good with my hands, and consider it a major accomplishment if I go to a party and don’t wind up floating in the punchbowl. And I think it is because I have never done some of the little things that others have.
If I could make it through the basic training/physical aspects, I’d like to have served somehow. I think that it would have been good for me.
and there should be a way for you to serve whatever your capacity…bless you
| 373 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:04:07pm |
re: #301 LudwigVanQuixote
Cato,
Your ability to cast this as what it is not is rather offensive - however much I like you.
What I would like is the following:
1. A discussion of science more than the thin skins and egos of the deniers.
LGF is not a science seminar. It is a random if self-selected group of general commenters. Demanding that people “stick to the subject” and don’t bring their own egos in here is not only futile, it’s arrogant.
2. A discussion of how to get the facts out and what the facts are.
I thought the facts were settled. If we still have to discuss what they are, we can’t get them out before we’re done with that, can we?
3. A discussion of what individuals can do and actually are doing about this.
Fine with me. Why don’t you have a list of links and post them every time an AGW thread comes up, like Ojoe with his Whigs? I’m not being snarky. It would save a lot of time and answer real questions instead you titling at other people’s cockeyed windmills.
4. The same level of contempt directed at deniers as we would at evolution deniers.
I think you already to an admirable job of that. Don’t tell other people they don’t display enough contempt for people you contemn - it comes off as slightly dictatorial.
5. YOU personally to stop with the Cassandra nihilist shtick. It is still not too late to do something.
Get it right: Cassandra was laughed at not for making false prophecies, but for correctly foreseeing the future of Troy. I’m honored you would compare me to a seeress. I am emphatically not a nihilist, however, and my opinions are not “shtick”.
6. People to understand the extreme gravity of the situation. BS discussions about anything else are part of the problem too.
See my comment on no. 1.
7. People other than me and a few others like Thanos, OB and Free and Charles - to bring science of their own to this.
I thought the science was settled. Just repeat at will.
8. More questions like the one from Alouette about the volcano- where an actual science discussion follows.
I will try to oblige.
(I just know you’re going to give me a bad grade anyway.)
| 374 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:04:15pm |
New York Mets 2
St. Louis Cards 1
bottom of the (wait for it) 20th INNING
| 375 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:04:17pm |
re: #367 Aceofwhat?
isn’t that kinda what i said, minus the economy-killing part? families already had members in the military…no need to speculate. how did they vote?
I’m talking about the chickenhawks, I think there are people who support the war so long as they don’t have to take part in it. I think a draft would scare these people into taking a less hypocritical course of action which would be good for the nation. Reasonable?
| 376 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:04:30pm |
re: #366 LudwigVanQuixote
I disagree with everything else in the post, but this part is spot on.
The chicken hawk wing of the right would certainly be a lot less eager to rattle sabers if they actually had a stake in it.
You’ve got a point, but I still don’t think the juice would be worth the squeeze. Just my opinion, take it for what its worth.
| 377 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:05:05pm |
re: #366 LudwigVanQuixote
I disagree with everything else in the post, but this part is spot on.
The chicken hawk wing of the right would certainly be a lot less eager to rattle sabers if they actually had a stake in it.
that doesn’t match 2004 voting patterns as i recall them.
| 378 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:05:09pm |
re: #369 albusteve
the question is where does a ‘peacetime draft’ come from?…it would have to come from Congress just the others
Charlie Rangel wanted to the draft…before he was against it.
Confusing.
| 379 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:05:16pm |
re: #358 Escaped Hillbilly
No, they would become a big a— problem for the NCOs that have to deal with their crap. I have enough of these worthless mamby-pambies now. I don’t have time to escort them to their appointments, go find them in their rooms, meet them at their DUI classes, stand with them in the 1SG/CDR’s office etc., etc. Please don’t burden any part of our military with these people. If they want to join, they will. We don’t need half the ones we got though the politicians and generals can’t be convinced. By the way, NO part of the Army doesn’t go to war. Think the same may be true for other forces.
my point is, that a draft would not serve combat troops…I made that clear
| 380 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:05:17pm |
re: #374 sattv4u2
New York Mets 2
St. Louis Cards 1bottom of the (wait for it) 20th INNING
Go Mets! Knock the Cardinals down a peg.
| 381 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:06:26pm |
re: #378 The Shadow Do
Where the hell did Charlie Rangel come from?
| 382 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:06:43pm |
| 383 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:06:50pm |
re: #376 Dark_Falcon
You’ve got a point, but I still don’t think the juice would be worth the squeeze. Just my opinion, take it for what its worth.
I agree.
Here’s an easier way to do it that I think would work with less fuss and muss, if we’re gonna start a war no more putting it on credit cards, if we start a war we have to find a way to pay for it, if that means more taxes then so be it, no more unfunded wars like what Bush did in Iraq and Afghanistan, if we go to war the people at home should feel the squeeze because of it.
| 384 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:07:00pm |
re: #375 jamesfirecat
I’m talking about the chickenhawks, I think there are people who support the war so long as they don’t have to take part in it. I think a draft would scare these people into taking a less hypocritical course of action which would be good for the nation. Reasonable?
Silly.
| 385 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:07:00pm |
| 386 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:07:08pm |
re: #366 LudwigVanQuixote
The chicken hawk wing of the right would certainly be a lot less eager to rattle sabers if they actually had a stake in it.
Bullshit. The ‘chicken hawk wing of the right’ are the ones serving or have kids or relatives proudly serving. The red doper baby left wingers are the ones who hate the military. Maybe if those lefties served a couple years in the military they may gain a little respect for our finest fighting force.
| 387 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:07:30pm |
| 388 |
SteveC Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:07:34pm |
re: #374 sattv4u2
New York Mets 2
St. Louis Cards 1bottom of the (wait for it) 20th INNING
Someone stuck around to watch the Mets play 20 innings? One of the world’s leading cities, and they can’t think of anything else to do?!?!
389 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:07:34pm |
Further evidence that Monckton is not only a fraud but a delusional crackpot.
The video of Margaret Thatcher supporting the mitigation of global warming effects will surely make heads explode.
| 390 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:07:37pm |
re: #371 Escaped Hillbilly
Ok, you are confounding two different concepts, other countries impressing our citizens into their service vs our country pressing Soldiers and Sailors into service of their own country. I’m thinking this has probably been brought before the Supreme Ct before, somewhere around the 60s? IDK.
I am not confounding anything. I was referring to a specific reference that someone else made and dangling it.
As to the constitutionality of the draft, please use some simple logic. If it were actually unconstitutional, do you really think we would have a need for conscientious objector status, if someone could just refuse to go on the basis of unconstitutionality?
As a result of protests in the 60’s and Seventies, we switched to an all volunteer force. No politician would call a draft anymore because no politician would have the courage to.
However, should the POTUS decide that a draft were called for and congress agreed, we could certainly still have one.
| 391 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:07:52pm |
re: #370 bratwurst
Are you really a “do as I say, not as I do” kinda guy?
what the fuck is your point?…you don’t like me?…everybody already knows that….make of it what you will, but decide once and for all eh?…you raise this same issue every other thread…like a poodle
| 392 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:08:03pm |
re: #386 NJDhockeyfan
Lol, that’s not the path you wanna follow, you’re just begging for one of the well known lists >>
| 393 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:08:13pm |
re: #381 windsagio
Where the hell did Charlie Rangel come from?
Great question!
(wrong button hit on #387)
| 394 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:08:13pm |
re: #381 windsagio
Where the hell did Charlie Rangel come from?
Originally, not sure
But I do know there’s a Carribean Island he’s heading for !
/
| 395 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:08:39pm |
re: #388 SteveC
Someone stuck around to watch the Mets play 20 innings? One of the world’s leading cities, and they can’t think of anything else to do?!?!
Game is in St. L.
And it just ended
| 396 |
Pie-onist Overlord Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:09:02pm |
re: #352 jamesfirecat
No, I think that if your average family was worried that their son or daughter might stop being a CPA or a computer programmer and go carry a gun and put their lives on the line of the country they would be more reluctant to let the US go to war on a whim.
Oh yes, that is why there was so much widespread opposition to World War II. Oh, wait…
| 397 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:09:12pm |
Re: Rangel, ok ok, I should have said ‘in this thread’, but it was fun to let you guys have your Jollies >>
| 398 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:09:20pm |
re: #222 Aceofwhat?
i vote you jump in with fists swinging. the last time you did, it was awesome.
Hehehe, if you’re referring to my rant the other day, I’d been saving that one up for a good long while—like about 9.5 years. That sentiments in that article were just enough to tip the scale in favor of lettin’ her rip, y’know?
| 399 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:09:21pm |
re: #393 The Shadow Do
Great question!
(wrong button hit on #387)
well ,,as penance, give 387 an upding!!
//
| 400 |
ausador Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:09:35pm |
re: #297 albusteve
Iran is a cakewalk…all we need to do is set them back a couple of decades, problem solved…then in 2020, whack them again, like a dog…if they get frustrated and take it out on Israel, then that will be the end of the Mullahs…think positive
That is completely fucking retarded, and here I thought that you didn’t have any “special needs.”
“YEEHAW! Cowboy diplomacy rides again.”
It isn’t that fucking easy, Iran has spread it’s nuclear program out to over 100 known sites now, some of which are buried in mountains and acknowledged by us to be impervious to any non-nuclear bomb in our arsensal. Yet your solution is to just “bomb them” that takes care of everything right? There will be no unintended mass casualties, no consequences, no unintended retaliatory actions….right?
This is a game of chess on a worldwide stage, not a fratboy water balloon fight.
| 401 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:09:40pm |
re: #398 CuriousLurker
Hehehe, if you’re referring to my rant the other day, I’d been saving that one up for a good long while—like about 9.5 years. That sentiments in that article were just enough to tip the scale in favor of lettin’ her rip, y’know?
And this was the place to do it.
| 402 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:09:44pm |
re: #396 Alouette
your point ignores Vietnam, where a large part of the resistance was tied directly to the Draft.
| 403 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:09:45pm |
re: #375 jamesfirecat
I’m talking about the chickenhawks, I think there are people who support the war so long as they don’t have to take part in it. I think a draft would scare these people into taking a less hypocritical course of action which would be good for the nation. Reasonable?
reasonable…as in, do i agree that such people exist? yes.
reasonable as a solution? no. i think those people are in the minority, by far. IIRC, Bush won the military family vote even during wartime. that should tell you something.
seems like you’re trying to make applesauce by nuking the orchard. drafting kids to influence their parents’ public opinion? ‘drastic’ doesn’t seem to do that idea justice…
| 404 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:09:56pm |
re: #138 LudwigVanQuixote
I disagree with everything else in the post, but this part is spot on.
The chicken hawk wing of the right would certainly be a lot less eager to rattle sabers if they actually had a stake in it.
Oh crap. Who do you think make up the military now? Its a volunteer force right? So who would agree to volunteer. Don’t give me that line about poor inner city black kids. I don’t serve with but a handful of people who joined cause they had no options. Most joined cause they support our country, our president (whoever he/she may be at the time), our causes, and the military. Former military’s kids join in higher numbers than civilians by percentage. The Right sends their kids to war. It does not make them less likely to saber rattle.
| 405 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:10:21pm |
re: #386 NJDhockeyfan
Bullshit. The ‘chicken hawk wing of the right’ are the ones serving or have kids or relatives proudly serving. The red doper baby left wingers are the ones who hate the military. Maybe if those lefties served a couple years in the military they may gain a little respect for our finest fighting force.
Yes, nothing will make people respect the military like being forced to join it and serve with others who didn’t want to join and would probably frag their COs if it increased their own chances of getting home alive.
Funneling conscripts into our army like you suggest would go a long way to making it a force no longer worth respecting.
Oh and also congrats on the broad brush strokes of all conservatives have family/friends serving in the army and no liberals do, you must build up some very nice pecs lifting such a huge tool to paint with.
| 406 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:10:22pm |
re: #374 sattv4u2
New York Mets 2
St. Louis Cards 1bottom of the (wait for it) 20th INNING
boooring
| 407 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:10:26pm |
re: #388 SteveC
Someone stuck around to watch the Mets play 20 innings? One of the world’s leading cities, and they can’t think of anything else to do?!?!
one of the great mysteries of the universe… yankees, mets… same city…how?
| 408 |
researchok Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:10:29pm |
re: #386 NJDhockeyfan
Bullshit. The ‘chicken hawk wing of the right’ are the ones serving or have kids or relatives proudly serving. The red doper baby left wingers are the ones who hate the military. Maybe if those lefties served a couple years in the military they may gain a little respect for our finest fighting force.
| 409 |
bratwurst Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:10:37pm |
re: #391 albusteve
what the fuck is your point?…you don’t like me?…everybody already knows that…make of it what you will, but decide once and for all eh?…you raise this same issue every other thread…like a poodle
I have nothing against you, but I do have a tendency to point out obvious hypocrisy. There, my decision is made.
| 410 |
SteveC Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:11:17pm |
re: #381 windsagio
Where the hell did Charlie Rangel come from?
According to Wikipedia, he came from Harlem, New York City.
| 411 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:11:20pm |
re: #398 CuriousLurker
Hehehe, if you’re referring to my rant the other day, I’d been saving that one up for a good long while—like about 9.5 years. That sentiments in that article were just enough to tip the scale in favor of lettin’ her rip, y’know?
that’s exactly what i meant - it was great! if those are your fists, let them fly!
| 412 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:11:36pm |
Glenn Reynolds pimping the fraud Monckton:
April 17, 2010
PJTV: Lord Monckton’s Complete Tax Day Tea Party Address: Al Gore, Where Are You?
Posted by Glenn Reynolds at 6:44 pm
| 413 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:11:38pm |
re: #378 The Shadow Do
Charlie Rangel wanted to the draft…before he was against it.
Confusing.
I dismiss that jerktoid on principle…Rangle is embarrassing…he should be behind bars, and he would be if Pelosi wasn’t sucking him for his votes…disgusting bunch of people
| 414 |
Pie-onist Overlord Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:11:59pm |
re: #402 windsagio
your point ignores Vietnam, where a large part of the resistance was tied directly to the Draft.
I also ignored the Civil War, which began with all volunteers and then turned to a draft.
| 415 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:12:20pm |
| 416 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:12:46pm |
re: #403 Aceofwhat?
reasonable…as in, do i agree that such people exist? yes.
reasonable as a solution? no. i think those people are in the minority, by far. IIRC, Bush won the military family vote even during wartime. that should tell you something.
seems like you’re trying to make applesauce by nuking the orchard. drafting kids to influence their parents’ public opinion? ‘drastic’ doesn’t seem to do that idea justice…
I’ll give you that.
My new idea for making Americans less go hung about war is outlined in 383, if you start a war you must also have a ballanced federal budget. IE war spending = higher taxes/less spending elsewhere.
The US has been at war since I was in middle school and its done nothing at all to obviously affect me and I think there’s something wrong with that….
| 417 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:12:52pm |
re: #404 Escaped Hillbilly
I hate to have to do this, but the chickenhawk thing is a reference to all the People in the previous administration (or conservative politics, IE Rush) who pushed really hard for Iraq, or hawkishness in general, who felt absolutely no need to serve, or in various ways got around the draft.
Its ugly to bring up the Bush people, but since folks are waaay missing the point, it had to be done.
Also, a draft leads to more protest, Vietnam showed that pretty well.
| 418 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:12:53pm |
re: #373 Cato the Elder
Cato, I like you.
I am not interested in sparring with you.
You are however pissing me off.
The reason is that almost all of your posts and that one in particular boils down to:
There is no need to talk about it because we are fucked anyway, which you then cloud in a mist of irrelevant erudition.
The problem is very real. We are still marching towards it, and if perhaps enough people talk about it enough, people will begin to act.
The science is settled. However when you say it like you just did it has the effect of saying the science is settled, move on. But of course the direction we are actually moving in is a very bad one where no one is doing anything. You yourself know this.
What I do not understand is your need to get pissy about trying to change that direction by informing people and making certain that they get it.
As to asking people to stay on topic and actually discuss facts and consequences, you are being a monumental hypocrite for bitching about that.
But you know that too.
Sometimes, I really don’t understand why you wrote what you wrote.
| 419 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:12:54pm |
| 420 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:13:16pm |
re: #404 Escaped Hillbilly
Oh crap. Who do you think make up the military now? Its a volunteer force right? So who would agree to volunteer. Don’t give me that line about poor inner city black kids. I don’t serve with but a handful of people who joined cause they had no options. Most joined cause they support our country, our president (whoever he/she may be at the time), our causes, and the military. Former military’s kids join in higher numbers than civilians by percentage. The Right sends their kids to war. It does not make them less likely to saber rattle.
that’s been my experience as well. i haven’t served but i have family who did and currently does. IIRC, every single parent of a service member in my family is a republican, although we don’t talk politics much at gatherings.
| 421 |
Randall Gross Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:13:27pm |
Time for me to catch up some reading — put me down for being against the draft except in times of dire national need because professional volunteer militaries do better jobs, are scarier to our enemies, and kill fewer civvies.
| 422 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:13:29pm |
re: #414 Alouette
And had anti-draft riots in major cities.
| 423 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:13:39pm |
I have a few cold ones waiting for me.
BBIAB
| 424 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:14:06pm |
re: #418 LudwigVanQuixote
Cato, I like you.
I am not interested in sparring with you.
You are however pissing me off.
The reason is that almost all of your posts and that one in particular boils down to:
There is no need to talk about it because we are fucked anyway, which you then cloud in a mist of irrelevant erudition.
The problem is very real. We are still marching towards it, and if perhaps enough people talk about it enough, people will begin to act.
The science is settled. However when you say it like you just did it has the effect of saying the science is settled, move on. But of course the direction we are actually moving in is a very bad one where no one is doing anything. You yourself know this.
What I do not understand is your need to get pissy about trying to change that direction by informing people and making certain that they get it.
As to asking people to stay on topic and actually discuss facts and consequences, you are being a monumental hypocrite for bitching about that.
But you know that too.
Sometimes, I really don’t understand why you wrote what you wrote.
of course you don’t, but we keep trying to enlighten you non the less….we love you man
| 425 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:14:11pm |
re: #398 CuriousLurker
Correction:
Hehehe, if you’re referring to my rant the other day, I’d been saving that one up for a good long while—like about
9.58.5 years. That sentiments in that article were just enough to tip the scale in favor of lettin’ her rip, y’know?
But I’m sure you guys knew what I meant. ;)
| 426 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:14:25pm |
re: #343 Thanos
Had to cut that off only a quarter of the way in.. there are only so many Beckian fallacies a sane mind can stand before it collapses into unstoppable laughter.
I only made it half way through myself.
| 427 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:14:32pm |
re: #386 NJDhockeyfan
Bullshit. The ‘chicken hawk wing of the right’ are the ones serving or have kids or relatives proudly serving. The red doper baby left wingers are the ones who hate the military. Maybe if those lefties served a couple years in the military they may gain a little respect for our finest fighting force.
Don’t you mean “the world’s finest fighting force”, you dork? Or are you trying to start an Army-Navy brawl here?
And check out the lexical difference between “may” and “might” sometime. It’s never too late to learn how to think.
| 428 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:15:17pm |
re: #422 windsagio
And had anti-draft riots in major cities.
Incorrect
There were anti WAR riots
The draft was around prior to the Vietnam war and nobody was rioting about the draft then
| 429 |
Pie-onist Overlord Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:15:26pm |
re: #422 windsagio
And had anti-draft riots in major cities.
Which we did not have during WW2, or even during Vietnam IIRC. Yes there were riots in major cities during the ‘60’s (I remember the Detroit riots of ‘67) but these had nothing to do with the war or the draft.
| 430 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:15:56pm |
re: #427 Cato the Elder
And check out the lexical difference between “may” and “might” sometime. It’s never too late to learn how to think.
I think I will have another beer…
| 431 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:16:04pm |
re: #151 albusteve
my point is, that a draft would not serve combat troops…I made that clear
You’re not getting it. A problem child is a problem child in garrison too. Who do you think is gonna babysit this kid? We all rotate our jobs, posts, and combat tours. So these kids get to collect a check, wear a uniform, draw bennies, and NOT go to combat? That makes no sense. Hey here’s an idea. Peace Corps. Already exists. Let em serve there. We don’t want them unless they want to be there.
| 432 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:16:18pm |
re: #427 Cato the Elder
Don’t you mean “the world’s finest fighting force”, you dork? Or are you trying to start an Army-Navy brawl here?
Yes…I stand corrected! Sorry dude.
And check out the lexical difference between “may” and “might” sometime. It’s never too late to learn how to think.
It’s past 11 on Saturday night. Cut me some slack, man.
433 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:16:27pm |
re: #59 reine.de.tout
I have a magnet on my freezer:
Before taking the last of the ice cream, ask yourself this question: What Is Your Life Worth?
Slow in here, where is everybody?
And especially - where are the gals?
Room seems testosterone heavy to me.
I was napping.
| 434 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:16:59pm |
| 435 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:17:18pm |
re: #401 reine.de.tout
And this was the place to do it.
Thanks, reine. I needed people to hear it, to acknowledge it for better or worse, y’know? And I feel a lot better now, so thanks for listening to all of you.
| 437 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:17:41pm |
BBIAB
When I left work this morning I was hoping that somehow the digital router head I started to install would finish itself before I got back here
no such luck
| 438 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:17:45pm |
re: #434 Cato the Elder
I see that Iceland and Greenland are undefended. Hmm.
I say we get a couple of canoes and some shotguns and invade!
We attack at dawn.
/
| 439 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:18:08pm |
re: #404 Escaped Hillbilly
Oh crap. Who do you think make up the military now? Its a volunteer force right? So who would agree to volunteer. Don’t give me that line about poor inner city black kids. I don’t serve with but a handful of people who joined cause they had no options. Most joined cause they support our country, our president (whoever he/she may be at the time), our causes, and the military. Former military’s kids join in higher numbers than civilians by percentage. The Right sends their kids to war. It does not make them less likely to saber rattle.
Really? Palin or Rush or Beck has encouraged their kids to serve?
Family connections were never used to keep politician kids either undrafted or safely put in the National Guard?
I am not talking about the average American parent who worries if their kid is in the service. Those parents come from across the board. I am talking about the fat people who would never consider going themselves of sending their kids, yet none the less love to talk big at the expense of others. We both know there are a ton of those.
| 440 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:18:11pm |
re: #428 sattv4u2
You seem to be right (so mea culpa), but you really have to work on your style.
It’s grating.
| 441 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:18:55pm |
re: #438 Gus 802
I say we get a couple of canoes and some shotguns and invade!
We attack at dawn.
/
Greenland invaded, world yawns… film at 11:00
| 442 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:19:42pm |
re: #400 ausador
That is completely fucking retarded, and here I thought that you didn’t have any “special needs.”
“YEEHAW! Cowboy diplomacy rides again.”
It isn’t that fucking easy, Iran has spread it’s nuclear program out to over 100 known sites now, some of which are buried in mountains and acknowledged by us to be impervious to any non-nuclear bomb in our arsensal. Yet your solution is to just “bomb them” that takes care of everything right? There will be no unintended mass casualties, no consequences, no unintended retaliatory actions…right?
This is a game of chess on a worldwide stage, not a fratboy water balloon fight.
haha! good one….the USAF are a bunch of goons that couldn’t hit the side of a barn…okay…I reduced the problem down to the essentials, with the impression that Israel and the US have enough intel to set them back, not eliminate their program…if not then there are other targets rich for creating havoc on the program regardless if we can’t bingo their warhead stash…my post did not consider the rest of the world, which doesn’t mean I don’t know it exists…anyway, it’s coming down to fuck them, right?
| 443 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:20:01pm |
re: #424 albusteve
of course you don’t, but we keep trying to enlighten you non the less…we love you man
Steve seriously… I detest you.
| 444 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:20:56pm |
re: #186 Alouette
I also ignored the Civil War, which began with all volunteers and then turned to a draft.
Technically, we “drafted” folks in the War for Independence. Usually at the end of a rifle or out of fear of being ridden out on a rail. But it was ok cause the enemy was drafting our folks too.
445 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:21:07pm |
re: #434 Cato the Elder
I see that Iceland and Greenland are undefended. Hmm.
I’ll fuel up the bomber!
| 446 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:21:19pm |
re: #431 Escaped Hillbilly
You’re not getting it. A problem child is a problem child in garrison too. Who do you think is gonna babysit this kid? We all rotate our jobs, posts, and combat tours. So these kids get to collect a check, wear a uniform, draw bennies, and NOT go to combat? That makes no sense. Hey here’s an idea. Peace Corps. Already exists. Let em serve there. We don’t want them unless they want to be there.
Moreover, in the sorts of wars we are seeing today, troops assigned to normally non-combat roles have often ended up in combat anyways. With convoy ambushes and IEDs in play, we shouldn’t have anyone in uniform who is going to be a liability in battle.
| 447 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:21:20pm |
re: #409 bratwurst
I have nothing against you, but I do have a tendency to point out obvious hypocrisy. There, my decision is made.
you didn’t…spit it out
| 448 |
Pie-onist Overlord Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:21:30pm |
re: #439 LudwigVanQuixote
Really? Palin or Rush or Beck has encouraged their kids to serve?
Family connections were never used to keep politician kids either undrafted or safely put in the National Guard?
I am not talking about the average American parent who worries if their kid is in the service. Those parents come from across the board. I am talking about the fat people who would never consider going themselves of sending their kids, yet none the less love to talk big at the expense of others. We both know there are a ton of those.
Sarah Palin’s son is in Iraq.
Alouette’s son volunteered for the IDF.
| 449 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:22:58pm |
| 450 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:23:40pm |
| 451 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:23:48pm |
re: #448 Alouette
Sarah Palin’s son is in Iraq.
I was not aware of that. I stand corrected in her case. However, that does not take away from my main point which is that there are many Americans who are very gung ho about other Americans fighting for them.
Alouette’s son volunteered for the IDF.
For which he deserves great praise and honor.
| 452 |
bratwurst Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:23:55pm |
re: #447 albusteve
you didn’t…spit it out
You can’t say
attacking people with childish names accomplishes nothing
and then proceed to call people childish names (EVEN people you don’t like or respect) and not expect to be called a hypocrite. I honestly don’t believe I can make this any clearer.
| 453 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:24:14pm |
re: #433 SanFranciscoZionist
I was napping.
you missed it. there was hugging. and i may have grabbed WUB’s furry ass…
| 454 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:24:19pm |
re: #206 Dark_Falcon
I understand. But I’m trying not to throw elbows when I shouldn’t. Sometimes in my life I’ve greatly offended people without realizing it. So, I tend to be very careful in how I come across.
A rare and valuable trait.
| 455 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:24:30pm |
re: #440 windsagio
You seem to be right (so mea culpa), but you really have to work on your style.
It’s grating.
Grating.
No invectives
No name calling
No ‘screaming” (the word WAR was capitalized for emphasis and a replacement for ‘draft”)
Succinct
Yup ,, grating!!
| 456 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:24:38pm |
Proof of fascism: Sneaking off to meet Islamist Alinkyites
| 457 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:24:54pm |
re: #209 windsagio
Lord knows I do.
I’ve called WUB a ‘fag’, 5 or 6 times on this blog, and just upthread I said he liked to dress up like a little girl!
Yes, but you do that to his face all the time, no?
| 458 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:25:00pm |
| 459 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:25:12pm |
re: #451 LudwigVanQuixote
For which he deserves great praise and honor.
Wow I guess you don’t watch very many Sarah Palin speeches since she brings it up pretty frequently…
No wonder you still have brainpower to do so much research into Global Warming…
| 460 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:25:20pm |
re: #431 Escaped Hillbilly
You’re not getting it. A problem child is a problem child in garrison too. Who do you think is gonna babysit this kid? We all rotate our jobs, posts, and combat tours. So these kids get to collect a check, wear a uniform, draw bennies, and NOT go to combat? That makes no sense. Hey here’s an idea. Peace Corps. Already exists. Let em serve there. We don’t want them unless they want to be there.
I do get it…a two tiered system, those involved directly with smashing and killing and others, laid back in support…call it a Peace Corp if you want I don’t care….some fundamental boot stuff, weapons training, then off to the salt mines to hustle MREs or whatever…you get the picture
| 461 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:25:25pm |
re: #455 sattv4u2
Starting a post with “Incorrect”, as if you are a teacher giving a test, yes that’s grating. You have a habit of posting like that.
I normally ignore it, but figured ‘what the hell?’
| 462 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:25:40pm |
re: #448 Alouette
Sarah Palin’s son is in Iraq.
Alouette’s son volunteered for the IDF.
Isn’t a McCain child also military?
| 464 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:26:44pm |
re: #431 Escaped Hillbilly
You’re not getting it. A problem child is a problem child in garrison too. Who do you think is gonna babysit this kid? We all rotate our jobs, posts, and combat tours. So these kids get to collect a check, wear a uniform, draw bennies, and NOT go to combat? That makes no sense. Hey here’s an idea. Peace Corps. Already exists. Let em serve there. We don’t want them unless they want to be there.
good stuff, there-
| 465 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:27:04pm |
re: #461 windsagio
Starting a post with “Incorrect”, as if you are a teacher giving a test, yes that’s grating. You have a habit of posting like that.
I normally ignore it, but figured ‘what the hell?’
Then how else would I convey that something someone posts is , well ,, incorrect!?!
| 466 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:27:04pm |
| 467 |
SteveC Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:27:11pm |
- Not a Flounce -
I’ve got to bid all my LGF friends goodbye, for a little while.
I’m off to DC to help Lobby for funding for the Congenital Heart Futures Act, which will authorize CDC to begin to gather data on Heart Defects, treatments, and medications. But first I’m going to Philly to help the ACHA plan the details of our lobbying effort. I’ll be gone until next Saturday and I probably won’t get back to LGF before then.
So everyone have a wonderful week! I’ll see you soon!
| 468 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:27:37pm |
re: #451 LudwigVanQuixote
I was not aware of that. I stand corrected in her case. However, that does not take away from my main point which is that there are many Americans who are very gung ho about other Americans fighting for them.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Sounds like Americans supporting the troops overseas. I applaud that.
| 469 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:27:48pm |
re: #467 SteveC
- Not a Flounce -
I’ve got to bid all my LGF friends goodbye, for a little while.
I’m off to DC to help Lobby for funding for the Congenital Heart Futures Act, which will authorize CDC to begin to gather data on Heart Defects, treatments, and medications. But first I’m going to Philly to help the ACHA plan the details of our lobbying effort. I’ll be gone until next Saturday and I probably won’t get back to LGF before then.
So everyone have a wonderful week! I’ll see you soon!
Good Luck
You’ll be missed
| 470 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:28:06pm |
re: #465 sattv4u2
“I disagree,” “I think you’re mistaken,” etc.
Really tho’ I shouldn’t have said anything, you have your own posting style after all. I’m sure I annoy some people too.
| 471 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:28:11pm |
| 472 |
Stanley Sea Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:28:27pm |
re: #465 sattv4u2
Then how else would I convey that something someone posts is , well ,, incorrect!?!
Wrongo?
| 473 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:29:48pm |
re: #471 albusteve
groovy…I still like you anyway
All right Simpson lets get this clear, I don’t like you and you don’t like me.
I like you!
Fine then you like me, but I don’t like you!
Maybe you would like me if you got to know me better…
| 474 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:30:11pm |
re: #418 LudwigVanQuixote
[…] almost all of your posts and that one in particular boils down to:
There is no need to talk about it because we are fucked anyway, which you then cloud in a mist of irrelevant erudition.
There is of course every reason to talk about it. If I happen to believe that all the talk in the world won’t really change anything, why should that make you angry? I’m still talking about it, just not parroting back exactly what you want to hear.
The problem is very real. We are still marching towards it, and if perhaps enough people talk about it enough, people will begin to act.
I would not be displeased were that the case. I would, however, be surprised.
The science is settled. However when you say it like you just did it has the effect of saying the science is settled, move on. But of course the direction we are actually moving in is a very bad one where no one is doing anything. You yourself know this.
Exactly! See “Copenhagen”.
What I do not understand is your need to get pissy about trying to change that direction by informing people and making certain that they get it.
What I fail to get is your apparent belief that pounding Steve or NJHockey or anyone else into submission on a blog is going to make a whit of difference. You’re wasting your time. This blog is for most participants essentially a social event.
As to asking people to stay on topic and actually discuss facts and consequences, you are being a monumental hypocrite for bitching about that.
But you know that too.
Are you serious? I am one of the biggest OT bitches on this board. Mostly I’d rather talk about my dog than the state of this bad old world.
Sometimes, I really don’t understand why you wrote what you wrote.
Because whatever I write is what I believe at that moment in time. Don’t look for consistency. It’s the hobgoblin of small minds.
| 475 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:30:17pm |
re: #446 Dark_Falcon
Moreover, in the sorts of wars we are seeing today, troops assigned to normally non-combat roles have often ended up in combat anyways. With convoy ambushes and IEDs in play, we shouldn’t have anyone in uniform who is going to be a liability in battle.
nobody suggested we should….you guys are making up that whole scenario to dispute those of us who support universal draft….have you followed the thread?
| 476 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:30:25pm |
re: #211 LudwigVanQuixote
Really? Palin or Rush or Beck has encouraged their kids to serve?
Family connections were never used to keep politician kids either undrafted or safely put in the National Guard?
I am not talking about the average American parent who worries if their kid is in the service. Those parents come from across the board. I am talking about the fat people who would never consider going themselves of sending their kids, yet none the less love to talk big at the expense of others. We both know there are a ton of those.
Re Beck and Rush, really would you want their kids? But seriously, it is not fair to use Palin as one of her kids is medically unfit and the other now has a kid, and single mom’s are discouraged from joining. Yes a lot of “fat” Righties have kids (or themselves were) in the military. You moreover, did not specify rich and powerful Conservatives. Rich people over all do not encourage their children to join. There actually are way more children of rightwingers in the military than leftwingers. However, folks in the military do not necessarily identify with their parents’ political parties. Overall, the young are more likely to be liberal. The old conservative. And this follows in the military too. Bottom line to me is drafting their kids is unlikely to shake their militaristic world view. It doesn’t seem to at any rate.
| 477 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:30:36pm |
re: #462 sattv4u2
Isn’t a McCain child also military?
Both of his sons are in the military. His eldest son and namesake, John S. McCain IV graduated from the Naval Academy last year. His younger son James is a Marine, though he is not an officer (by choice, since his excellent record and family connections would secure him a commission if he wanted one).
| 478 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:30:43pm |
re: #451 LudwigVanQuixote
I was not aware of that. I stand corrected in her case. However, that does not take away from my main point which is that there are many Americans who are very gung ho about other Americans fighting for them.
And many Americans who are or have been gung ho about pulling troops out in mid-mission don’t have family blood on the line either.
We can ride this little logic train for grins and giggles, but i think it’s more of a Disney layout where we can go around a lot but never actually get anywhere…
| 479 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:31:03pm |
re: #473 jamesfirecat
All right Simpson lets get this clear, I don’t like you and you don’t like me.
I like you!
Fine then you like me, but I don’t like you!
Maybe you would like me if you got to know me better…
buy me a taco…I’ll be your friend
| 480 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:31:43pm |
re: #467 SteveC
- Not a Flounce -
I’ve got to bid all my LGF friends goodbye, for a little while.
I’m off to DC to help Lobby for funding for the Congenital Heart Futures Act, which will authorize CDC to begin to gather data on Heart Defects, treatments, and medications. But first I’m going to Philly to help the ACHA plan the details of our lobbying effort. I’ll be gone until next Saturday and I probably won’t get back to LGF before then.
So everyone have a wonderful week! I’ll see you soon!
Good fortune, Steve. I hope you get your bill passed.
| 481 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:31:54pm |
re: #470 windsagio
“I disagree,” “I think you’re mistaken,” etc.
Really tho’ I shouldn’t have said anything, you have your own posting style after all. I’m sure I annoy some people too.
“I disagree” wouldn’t work in that case. Disagree indicates a difference of opinion, not fact
“I think you’re mistaken” would work, although it’s not as brief as “incorrect” and conveys the same
I’m not the fastest nor most accurate typist, so I go for brevity
BUT ,,, I will try to NOt use “incorrect” when responding to you in those times that “I think you’re mistaken”
| 482 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:33:12pm |
re: #481 sattv4u2
Lol fair enough, can’t ask for more than htat.
Since we’re talking about you tho’, are the commas a broken keyboard, personal style, or …?
| 483 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:33:12pm |
Emmitt or Barry?
expose yourself
right here, right now
| 484 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:34:27pm |
re: #483 albusteve
Emmitt or Barry?
expose yourself
right here, right now
Barry. It’s not even close.
| 485 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:34:29pm |
re: #482 windsagio
Lol fair enough, can’t ask for more than htat.
Since we’re talking about you tho’, are the commas a broken keyboard, personal style, or …?
missing a finger, can only hit the comma key …
/JOKING!
| 486 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:34:58pm |
re: #462 sattv4u2
Isn’t a McCain child also military?
Yes as is (or was) Sen. Tim Johnson’s son, General John Ashcroft’s son, Sen Christopher Bond’s son, Rep Duncan Hunter’s son, Rep Joe Wilson’s 3 sons, Sen James Webb’s son, Rep John Kline’s son, Joe Biden’s son, Rep Jim Saxton’s son, Rep Marilyn Musgrave’s son, Rep. Ike Skelton’s son, and Rep. Todd Akin’s son.
| 487 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:35:03pm |
re: #482 windsagio
Lol fair enough, can’t ask for more than htat.
Since we’re talking about you tho’, are the commas a broken keyboard, personal style, or …?
Whensomeonetalksitsnotjustrunonwordstherearepausesforbreathandbreaksbetweensentencesno?
Better??
| 488 |
Stanley Sea Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:35:13pm |
| 489 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:35:26pm |
re: #482 windsagio
Lol fair enough, can’t ask for more than htat.
Since we’re talking about you tho’, are the commas a broken keyboard, personal style, or …?
Commist! >>
:P
| 490 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:35:37pm |
re: #478 Aceofwhat?
And many Americans who are or have been gung ho about pulling troops out in mid-mission don’t have family blood on the line either.
We can ride this little logic train for grins and giggles, but i think it’s more of a Disney layout where we can go around a lot but never actually get anywhere…
Except that completely dodges the original point.
It isn’t about supporting the troops once deployed and the shit has started. It is about being more circumspect in wanting shit to start.
OK?
There was no reason to go into Iraq. NONE.
Because we went anyway, we now do not have the ability to do more than whine about the very real threat in Iran.
| 491 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:35:55pm |
re: #483 albusteve
Emmitt or Barry?
expose yourself
right here, right now
Barry did what he did with NO help at all
Emmitt was surrounded by talent
| 492 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:35:58pm |
re: #483 albusteve
Emmitt or Barry?
expose yourself
right here, right now
and i answered the question, but i am not showing you my junk. it’s not like you bought me dinner or appletinis or anything/
| 493 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:36:00pm |
| 495 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:36:36pm |
re: #483 albusteve
Emmitt or Barry?
expose yourself
right here, right now
Emmitt….the record books don’t lie.
| 496 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:36:37pm |
re: #487 sattv4u2
man I never thought I’d ask someone to use ellipsis.
| 497 |
Stanley Sea Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:36:59pm |
| 499 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:37:30pm |
re: #484 Aceofwhat?
Barry. It’s not even close.
so how many yards for a loss did he get?…how many touchdowns did he score?…razzle dazzle don’t count
| 500 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:37:34pm |
re: #490 LudwigVanQuixote
Except that completely dodges the original point.
It isn’t about supporting the troops once deployed and the shit has started. It is about being more circumspect in wanting shit to start.
OK?
There was no reason to go into Iraq. NONE.
Because we went anyway, we now do not have the ability to do more than whine about the very real threat in Iran.
actually we do have the ability and guess what? it’s right next door in Iraq.
| 501 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:37:47pm |
re: #278 jamesfirecat
If you buy a house, and the old owner ignored a faulty bit of plumbing, yes its your job to fix it now that you owned the home, but the problem wouldn’t have been dropped in your lab if they hadn’t dropped the ball in the first place.
Also, it doesn’t help so much if people keep telling you that the pipe didn’t burst on the old owner’s watch because he was ‘serious’ about plumbing, that can get annoying.
| 502 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:37:48pm |
re: #232 albusteve
No. You are not receiving. No “two tiered system”. You are in the military or you are not. If you are not combat ready (and willing) you are not. There is no job that does not require combat exposure and proper training for same. None. You might get lucky and not need it. But that is never guaranteed. Nor should it be. Seeing some trooops not face the same dangers/hardships would ruin the espirt de corps and morale of the others. The commonality of the eperience goes a long way toward building effective teams. The Peace Corps already exists. It is a great program and I suggest you check it out. It is not associated with the military in any way.
| 503 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:37:52pm |
re: #490 LudwigVanQuixote
Except that completely dodges the original point.
It isn’t about supporting the troops once deployed and the shit has started. It is about being more circumspect in wanting shit to start.
OK?
There was no reason to go into Iraq. NONE.
Because we went anyway, we now do not have the ability to do more than whine about the very real threat in Iran.
Don’t forget how going there f***ed over our ability to make any headway in Afghanistan….
| 504 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:37:56pm |
re: #495 NJDhockeyfan
Emmitt…the record books don’t lie.
See 491
Put Barry on the teams Emmitt was on
Put Emmitt on the teams Barry was on
Nobody would have even remembered Emmitt if that was the case
| 505 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:38:27pm |
re: #474 Cato the Elder
Cato seriously, this is not about me or my ego. Your attempt to paint it as such is an insult.
The reason to talk about this a lot is that the only way that anything will get done is if average people - even ones who would rather talk about their dogs - get the facts, get serious about the facts and demand changes.
As to your bits about wanting people to talk the way you would prefer - Hmmm tell you what then, lay off of Mandy.
I really like you but your current contentious and insulting hypocrisy is really starting to annoy.
506 |
Olsonist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:38:43pm |
re: #490 LudwigVanQuixote
If there was a decent reason for going into Iraq, then Turkey would have gone into Iraq with us.
| 507 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:39:17pm |
re: #487 sattv4u2
Whensomeonetalksitsnotjustrunonwordstherearepauses forbreathandbreaksbetweensentencesno?
Better??
Yeah, but Satt, honestly - one comma would do, doncha think?
| 508 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:39:56pm |
re: #499 albusteve
so how many yards for a loss did he get?…how many touchdowns did he score?…razzle dazzle don’t count
I saw one of Barry Sanders’ best games which was against the Cowboys in Dallas. It was jaw dropping watching him dart back and forth with ease dodging blockers and running up the field. He was amazing in his prime.
But, Emmitt is still the king.
| 509 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:40:03pm |
re: #507 reine.de.tout
Yeah, but Satt, honestly - one comma would do, doncha think?
o,,,k,,,a,,,y,,
(sorry!!! Couldn’t resist!)
| 510 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:40:16pm |
re: #490 LudwigVanQuixote
Except that completely dodges the original point.
It isn’t about supporting the troops once deployed and the shit has started. It is about being more circumspect in wanting shit to start.
No, i get that. The faulty part is where only families with military service have a good perspective on when to approve of military action…but everyone has a good perspective on when to disapprove.
Either hand all of the votes to families where a member has served or leave the votes where they are. The conditional aspect of your point makes it leaky.
follow?
| 511 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:40:19pm |
| 512 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:40:45pm |
re: #491 sattv4u2
Barry did what he did with NO help at all
Emmitt was surrounded by talent
what did he do?…besides run for a lot of yards?…did he make his line better? no…he despised them…did he express any leadership? no, he sat and sulked…did he express himself for changes to improve the team? no, he supported his losing, inept coaches
| 513 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:40:52pm |
| 514 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:41:07pm |
re: #305 Cato the Elder
We should have a draft already.
Wonder what the Tea Party would have to say about that. You know who else had a draft?
| 515 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:41:09pm |
re: #510 Aceofwhat?
No, i get that. The faulty part is where only families with military service have a good perspective on when to approve of military action…but everyone has a good perspective on when to disapprove.
Either hand all of the votes to families where a member has served or leave the votes where they are. The conditional aspect of your point makes it leaky.
follow?
If I were saying that or even implying that, you might have a point. Since I am not, you do not.
| 516 |
Jadespring Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:41:09pm |
re: #475 albusteve
nobody suggested we should…you guys are making up that whole scenario to dispute those of us who support universal draft…have you followed the thread?
Does support of an idea of a universal draft include both genders being drafted? I’ve always wondered how that would work in this day and age.
| 517 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:41:26pm |
re: #492 Aceofwhat?
and i answered the question, but i am not showing you my junk. it’s not like you bought me dinner or appletinis or anything/
taco’s!
two fer one here!
| 518 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:41:27pm |
re: #400 ausador
That is completely fucking retarded, and here I thought that you didn’t have any “special needs.”
“YEEHAW! Cowboy diplomacy rides again.”
It isn’t that fucking easy, Iran has spread it’s nuclear program out to over 100 known sites now, some of which are buried in mountains and acknowledged by us to be impervious to any non-nuclear bomb in our arsensal. Yet your solution is to just “bomb them” that takes care of everything right? There will be no unintended mass casualties, no consequences, no unintended retaliatory actions…right?
This is a game of chess on a worldwide stage, not a fratboy water balloon fight.
This is just it. I wish more people acknowledged that the woo-hoo yee-haw kick-ass solution does not apply in this case.
it turns out America is not the God of Earth. We cannot magically control every other country and bend them to our will. Weird!
| 519 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:41:34pm |
re: #495 NJDhockeyfan
Emmitt…the record books don’t lie.
they lie like dogs. put Barry on the Cowboys…you think he won’t pile up twice as many yards?
Emmitt in Detroit = forgettable RB. That O-line made him great.
| 520 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:41:54pm |
re: #500 brookly red
actually we do have the ability and guess what? it’s right next door in Iraq.
Come to think of it Iran is located right between Iraq and Afghanistan, clearly the only way to prevent a war would be for Ahmadinejad to take Whoopie Golderg to block….
522 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:42:18pm |
Ludwig, I would be interested in your voew on this.
Australian laser ‘threatens nuclear security’
By Washington correspondent Craig McMurtrie
As a summit of world leaders begins in Washington, a prominent US physicist is warning that an Australian invention poses a significant threat to nuclear security.
Dr Francis Slakey, from Georgetown University in Washington DC, says a revolutionary uranium enrichment process using lasers has the potential to make it much easier for rogue countries or terrorist organisations to conceal any nuclear program.
Does anyone think it is possible to contain the nuclear threat?
As this technology has been proven successful how long before its technology proliferates?
silex.com.au
Is this a means to and end?
Or
The end by any means?
| 523 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:42:27pm |
| 525 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:42:40pm |
re: #306 albusteve
because they both hate our guts with a passion…something BO doesn’t seem to understand…he wants to engage in some silly strokefest, exactly what both countries are masters of…play right into their nefarious hands…maybe after he get’s bitchslapped enough, he’ll learn
I think Obama understands quite well, and is playing the game competently. I also think that the contrast between his style and the one Bush used is to our advantage—these guys are effing confused now.
| 526 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:43:01pm |
re: #504 sattv4u2
See 491
Put Barry on the teams Emmitt was on
Put Emmitt on the teams Barry was onNobody would have even remembered Emmitt if that was the case
but that’s fantasy…you cannot judge him by what would have been…only Gayle Sayres gets that perk
| 529 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:43:59pm |
re: #512 albusteve
what did he do?…besides run for a lot of yards?…did he make his line better? no…he despised them…did he express any leadership? no, he sat and sulked…did he express himself for changes to improve the team? no, he supported his losing, inept coaches
wait, you mean he wasn’t Terrell Owens?
i yield that point.
| 530 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:44:02pm |
re: #320 Cato the Elder
A draft is unconstitutional? How ever did we fight WWI and WWII?
Wilson and Roosevelt, those tranzi progs.
| 531 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:44:41pm |
re: #487 sattv4u2
Whensomeonetalksitsnotjustrunonwordstherearepauses forbreathandbreaksbetweensentencesno?
Better??
show me where ,,, is in the Elements of Style.
I mean if I &&&just&& start putting && amper&sands in random&&ly, it’s pr&etty awesome&&but it doesn’t make me&&& any&&&&& more & read && able. :D
| 532 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:44:45pm |
re: #526 albusteve
but that’s fantasy…you cannot judge him by what would have been…only Gayle Sayres gets that perk
You asked the question, Emmitt of Barry
SO ,,no fantasy. Even with Barrys handicap of being on piss poor teams (and you cannot blame him for that ( and piss poor coaches (again, thats the owners/ GM’s job) and all the advantages Emmitt had, I take Barry every day
| 533 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:45:13pm |
re: #505 LudwigVanQuixote
Cato seriously, this is not about me or my ego. Your attempt to paint it as such is an insult.
The reason to talk about this a lot is that the only way that anything will get done is if average people - even ones who would rather talk about their dogs - get the facts, get serious about the facts and demand changes.
As to your bits about wanting people to talk the way you would prefer - Hmmm tell you what then, lay off of Mandy.
I really like you but your current contentious and insulting hypocrisy is really starting to annoy.
honest, specific, succinct posts annoy you…we have been trying to point out to you that it’s a dead end for you…forget being annoyed and be reasonable instead…buddy
| 534 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:45:27pm |
re: #520 jamesfirecat
Come to think of it Iran is located right between Iraq and Afghanistan, clearly the only way to prevent a war would be for Ahmadinejad to take Whoopie Golderg to block…
and don’t forget that not so long ago Iraq & Iran fought to a very bloody stalemate. the fact that we are training & equipping an Iraqi army of some 300,000 has not made the Iranians sleep any better.
| 535 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:46:00pm |
re: #531 WindUpBird
show me where ,,, is in the Elements of Style.
I mean if I &&&just&& start putting && amper&sands in random&&ly, it’s pr&etty awesome&&but it doesn’t make me&&& any&&& more & read && able. :D
Here’s an idea
Don’t read my posts, if the ,,, bothers you that much!
| 536 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:46:02pm |
re: #521 windsagio
What, we’re not unique and special!?!
“You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all a part of the same compost pile.”
“
| 537 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:46:12pm |
re: #530 SanFranciscoZionist
Or that fellow traveler LBJ going into Viet Nam >>
| 538 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:46:13pm |
re: #278 Olsonist
If there was a decent reason for going into Iraq, then Turkey would have gone into Iraq with us.
We have our reasons, they have theirs. You logic is fallacy.
| 539 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:46:25pm |
re: #535 sattv4u2
Here’s an idea
Don’t read my posts, if the ,,, bothers you that much!
I’m just saying I don’t know WHY
WHHHHYYYY
WHY WHY why why WHY
| 540 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:47:03pm |
re: #522 ozbloke
Ludwig, I would be interested in your voew on this.
Australian laser ‘threatens nuclear security’
By Washington correspondent Craig McMurtrieAs a summit of world leaders begins in Washington, a prominent US physicist is warning that an Australian invention poses a significant threat to nuclear security.
Dr Francis Slakey, from Georgetown University in Washington DC, says a revolutionary uranium enrichment process using lasers has the potential to make it much easier for rogue countries or terrorist organisations to conceal any nuclear program.
Does anyone think it is possible to contain the nuclear threat?
As this technology has been proven successful how long before its technology proliferates?silex.com.au
Is this a means to and end?
Or
The end by any means?
Stripping U235 by laser irradiation is something that has been theoretically possible for quite some time. I will not go into the details of how such a process might work. I honestly think that some things can and must be kept secret.
If the Aussies have finally managed it is not good news in the current climate.
It is a game changer if that technology spreads.
As it is now, massive industrial facilities need years of operation and tens of thousands of centrifuges to enrich Uranium. This would be a much higher yield process that could be done in a much smaller facility. In essence, it removes the largest roadblock to nuclear proliferation.
541 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:47:05pm |
| 542 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:47:16pm |
re: #539 WindUpBird
I’m just saying I don’t know WHY
WHHHYYY
WHY WHY why why WHY
just to piss you off!
Works well,, huh !?!?
| 543 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:47:18pm |
| 544 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:47:18pm |
re: #538 Escaped Hillbilly
We have our reasons, they have theirs. You logic is fallacy.
Quite Concur.
Sorry I’m not posting much right this second. I’m doing some game research.
| 545 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:47:19pm |
re: #530 SanFranciscoZionist
Wilson and Roosevelt, those tranzi progs.
Tranzi sounds like a Nazi transsexual. Like Ilsa, she-wolf of the SS, but with a little yardage :D
| 546 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:47:24pm |
re: #508 NJDhockeyfan
I saw one of Barry Sanders’ best games which was against the Cowboys in Dallas. It was jaw dropping watching him dart back and forth with ease dodging blockers and running up the field. He was amazing in his prime.
But, Emmitt is still the king.
I saw Sanders trash the Cowboys a few times, once at the Silver Dome he went crazy for like 185 and a couple of TDs….he was good, but not good enough
| 547 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:47:30pm |
re: #346 Aceofwhat?
Que? You really think that families with a loved one in the military are more anti-war than your average liberal?
Please don’t suggest that ‘average liberals’ don’t have loved ones in the military. Two of my college friends have lost brothers in Iraq, and my BIL is about to go back for what I think may be a fourth deployment. We are all about as liberal as it gets.
| 548 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:47:49pm |
re: #538 Escaped Hillbilly
We have our reasons, they have theirs. You logic is fallacy.
I think his point is, you know how Israel is getting antsy about what is going on in Iran? Turkey is located right next to Iraq, if Iraq was starting to become a serious threat to the nations around it, Turkey would be in a better position to judge then we would be.
I think that’s his point and I’m not saying if I support it or not…
549 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:48:12pm |
re: #534 brookly red
and don’t forget that not so long ago Iraq & Iran fought to a very bloody stalemate. the fact that we are training & equipping an Iraqi army of some 300,000 has not made the Iranians sleep any better.
Iran is indeed a threat and more of threat than Iraq was, but don’t we say that now in hindsight?
How do we know what Iran has? I’m not being snarky. Or do we know like we knew what Hussein had? And that was after the inspectors had been in Iraq some 12 years before Bush took office. Even David Kay himself couldn’t say definitively what was there, at least before 2000.
I don’t like to say I don’t trust my government in these matters, but I’m not willing to go into another war for either faulty intelligence or fabrication. I can guarantee the majority of this country isn’t either. All I can say is, whatever we do, we can’t afford to make mistakes.
| 550 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:48:16pm |
re: #541 Spare O’Lake
I don’t think you’re commatose.
There’s nothing wrong with my toes,,
(well ,,except the little one on the left foot,, it’s shy and hides behind the one next to it!!)
| 552 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:48:37pm |
re: #540 LudwigVanQuixote
Stripping U235 by laser irradiation is something that has been theoretically possible for quite some time. I will not go into the details of how such a process might work. I honestly think that some things can and must be kept secret.
If the Aussies have finally managed it is not good news in the current climate.
It is a game changer if that technology spreads.
As it is now, massive industrial facilities need years of operation and tens of thousands of centrifuges to enrich Uranium. This would be a much higher yield process that could be done in a much smaller facility. In essence, it removes the largest roadblock to nuclear proliferation.
We’ll try to stay serene and calm
when Alabama gets the bomb!
| 553 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:48:52pm |
re: #533 albusteve
No steve you try to derail any such attempt at a conversation. All of my scientific posts are direct and make succinct points.
You really do not fool anyone except those who want to be fooled.
| 554 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:49:07pm |
re: #515 LudwigVanQuixote
If I were saying that or even implying that, you might have a point. Since I am not, you do not.
i mean you aren’t saying it. you said you were tired of folks without a ‘horse in the race’ (paraphrasing, not quoting) agitating for war.
fine.
i’m tired of folks without a ‘horse in the race’ agitating for peace.
either both statements are sensible or both are silly. i contend that they’re both silly. you’re still trying to convince me that you didn’t say the latter…of course you didn’t. i did. whether or not you support the latter statement is the rub.
| 555 |
Pie-onist Overlord Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:49:11pm |
| 556 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:49:38pm |
re: #525 SanFranciscoZionist
I think Obama understands quite well, and is playing the game competently. I also think that the contrast between his style and the one Bush used is to our advantage—these guys are effing confused now.
I hope you are right…we’ll see, but he has to realize that it’s us alone against Iraq…if he gets anyone else on board, fine, but it should not be contingent imo
557 |
Mich-again Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:50:19pm |
re: #552 jamesfirecat
We’ll try to stay serene and calm
when Alabama gets the bomb!
That would take “Hold my beer and watch this shit!” to a whole new level.
| 558 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:50:42pm |
re: #556 albusteve
“cuz Israel will do nothing about Iraq, no matter what.
| 559 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:50:57pm |
re: #519 Aceofwhat?
they lie like dogs. put Barry on the Cowboys…you think he won’t pile up twice as many yards?
Emmitt in Detroit = forgettable RB. That O-line made him great.
Barry didn’t play for the Cowboys…that argument defies logical debate…what if? changes everything…
| 560 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:51:10pm |
re: #549 marjoriemoon
Iran is indeed a threat and more of threat than Iraq was, but don’t we say that now in hindsight?
How do we know what Iran has? I’m not being snarky. Or do we know like we knew what Hussein had? And that was after the inspectors had been in Iraq some 12 years before Bush took office. Even David Kay himself couldn’t say definitively what was there, at least before 2000.
I don’t like to say I don’t trust my government in these matters, but I’m not willing to go into another war for either faulty intelligence or fabrication. I can guarantee the majority of this country isn’t either. All I can say is, whatever we do, we can’t afford to make mistakes.
These are very good questions.
We know a real atomic program because a real atomic program is a vast industrial undertaking that can not be hidden from satellites.
Iraq did not have one.
Iran does.
| 561 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:51:18pm |
re: #439 LudwigVanQuixote
Really? Palin or Rush or Beck has encouraged their kids to serve?
Family connections were never used to keep politician kids either undrafted or safely put in the National Guard?
I am not talking about the average American parent who worries if their kid is in the service. Those parents come from across the board. I am talking about the fat people who would never consider going themselves of sending their kids, yet none the less love to talk big at the expense of others. We both know there are a ton of those.
Palin’s son is serving. Of course, so is Biden’s but that rather ruins the image, somehow.
| 562 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:51:50pm |
re: #540 LudwigVanQuixote
Thanks Ludwig,
The article would seem to have huge implications.
Yet there is hardly a mention of it in the world press.
Nuclear is often touted as an alternate energy for the future along with wind/solar/water.
Could this put an end to this goal?
How hard will it be to put that genie back?
| 563 |
Olsonist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:52:02pm |
re: #538 Escaped Hillbilly
If you recall, the Bush administration lobbied the Turks very hard to be in the coalition. Bribed is a better word. It wasn’t even close; the Turks turned down everything. The Turks wanted nothing to do with the endgame in Iraq. They have enough trouble with the Kurds as it is.
| 564 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:52:30pm |
re: #561 SanFranciscoZionist
Its an outrage that neither of Obama’s kids has served a day.
| 565 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:52:37pm |
| 566 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:52:56pm |
re: #467 SteveC
- Not a Flounce -
I’ve got to bid all my LGF friends goodbye, for a little while.
I’m off to DC to help Lobby for funding for the Congenital Heart Futures Act, which will authorize CDC to begin to gather data on Heart Defects, treatments, and medications. But first I’m going to Philly to help the ACHA plan the details of our lobbying effort. I’ll be gone until next Saturday and I probably won’t get back to LGF before then.
So everyone have a wonderful week! I’ll see you soon!
Enjoy!
| 567 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:53:11pm |
re: #505 LudwigVanQuixote
Cato seriously, this is not about me or my ego. Your attempt to paint it as such is an insult.
The reason to talk about this a lot is that the only way that anything will get done is if average people - even ones who would rather talk about their dogs - get the facts, get serious about the facts and demand changes.
As to your bits about wanting people to talk the way you would prefer - Hmmm tell you what then, lay off of Mandy.
I really like you but your current contentious and insulting hypocrisy is really starting to annoy.
The difference is, I pick on Mandy because of personal animosity. I don’t think changing her mind is a worthwhile effort, but everyone needs a hobby.
If I’m annoying you, ignore me. I shall cope. What I will not do is pretend to think that we have more of a chance than we seem to actually have, in my eyes.
What the hell does my viewpoint matter, anyway? I wear glasses. I probably don’t see things the right way. But it’s still the way I see them.
| 568 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:53:20pm |
re: #320 jamesfirecat
I think his point is, you know how Israel is getting antsy about what is going on in Iran? Turkey is located right next to Iraq, if Iraq was starting to become a serious threat to the nations around it, Turkey would be in a better position to judge then we would be.
I think that’s his point and I’m not saying if I support it or not…
Yeah, I got that was his point. Still faulty. They have different political, economic, religious, issues to deal with. Or they may have just been stupid. Whether we are right to make a given decision is not determined by whether someone else comes to the same conclusion.
| 569 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:53:30pm |
Dammitt ,,
That Frakkin new digital router STILL hasn’t installed itself
I took it out of the box.
I mounted into the proper equipment rack
I ran and terminated all the cables
I even (kinda) read the manual
DO I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING!?!?!?!
bbiab
| 570 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:53:30pm |
re: #542 sattv4u2
just to piss you off!
Works well,, huh !?!?
hahahathis is the internet, I’m used to strobing image macros, the marquee HTML tag, lines and lines of identical animated gifs crafted to create a kaleidoscopic effect, causing seizures in laboratory animals.
I come from a place where you don’t have a benevolent leader like Charles making sure people don’t grief forums with abuse of img src. :D
| 571 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:53:52pm |
re: #549 marjoriemoon
Iran is indeed a threat and more of threat than Iraq was, but don’t we say that now in hindsight?
How do we know what Iran has? I’m not being snarky. Or do we know like we knew what Hussein had? And that was after the inspectors had been in Iraq some 12 years before Bush took office. Even David Kay himself couldn’t say definitively what was there, at least before 2000.
I don’t like to say I don’t trust my government in these matters, but I’m not willing to go into another war for either faulty intelligence or fabrication. I can guarantee the majority of this country isn’t either. All I can say is, whatever we do, we can’t afford to make mistakes.
I am not saying it’s good, bad or indifferent. I am just saying that it is. We have troops massed on either side of Iran & we are training a large standing Iraqi army… I don’t know to what end but it is what it is.
| 572 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:54:04pm |
re: #560 LudwigVanQuixote
These are very good questions.
We know a real atomic program because a real atomic program is a vast industrial undertaking that can not be hidden from satellites.
Iraq did not have one.
Iran does.
Sorry if the question is stupid, but atomic as in weapon’s arsenal? or nuclear energy? Can we tell the difference?
| 573 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:54:13pm |
re: #561 SanFranciscoZionist
Palin’s son is serving. Of course, so is Biden’s but that rather ruins the image, somehow.
I already stand corrected on that part.
My main point was always that the sane response to war is to try to avoid it. That way when it is unfortunately necessary, we go for the right reasons.
| 574 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:54:32pm |
re: #553 LudwigVanQuixote
No steve you try to derail any such attempt at a conversation. All of my scientific posts are direct and make succinct points.
You really do not fool anyone except those who want to be fooled.
Hahaha…succint…hahaha.
| 575 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:54:37pm |
re: #553 LudwigVanQuixote
No steve you try to derail any such attempt at a conversation. All of my scientific posts are direct and make succinct points.
You really do not fool anyone except those who want to be fooled.
Cato’s responses were very generous and honest, yet they annoy you…nobody is trying to fool you, drop the paranoid riff
| 577 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:54:44pm |
re: #518 WindUpBird
This is just it. I wish more people acknowledged that the woo-hoo yee-haw kick-ass solution does not apply in this case.
it turns out America is not the God of Earth. We cannot magically control every other country and bend them to our will. Weird!
No, but we can disrupt Iran’s nuclear program and set them back a decade or two, something I would seriously prefer to seeing them get a functioning bomb.
| 578 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:54:52pm |
re: #547 SanFranciscoZionist
Please don’t suggest that ‘average liberals’ don’t have loved ones in the military. Two of my college friends have lost brothers in Iraq, and my BIL is about to go back for what I think may be a fourth deployment. We are all about as liberal as it gets.
Oh, the ‘chickenhawk’ talk is all about how to get more liberals’ children in the army. Silly me.
The point is: pretending that just because you have a loved one in the military, your silly weak mind will snap around to the point of view shared by __________, is fallacious at best and insulting at worst.
Which, by dint of nearly being insulted, you’ve proven quite nicely!
hat tip-
| 579 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:56:05pm |
re: #578 Aceofwhat?
I think the base point of that discussion is that theres something messed up about sending others relatives off to die but not your own.
Me saying “I don’t want my kids to fight, but I don’t want yours to either!” isn’t quite the same thing.
| 580 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:56:06pm |
re: #559 albusteve
Barry didn’t play for the Cowboys…that argument defies logical debate…what if? changes everything…
Grading O-lines isn’t exactly string theory.
| 581 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:57:00pm |
re: #490 LudwigVanQuixote
Except that completely dodges the original point.
It isn’t about supporting the troops once deployed and the shit has started. It is about being more circumspect in wanting shit to start.
OK?
There was no reason to go into Iraq. NONE.
Because we went anyway, we now do not have the ability to do more than whine about the very real threat in Iran.
You hold a very popular view in the context of the day. This is a view that will be subject to historical review for more years than you or I will be alive I suspect.
Personally I think it is an early though seminal event in the ongoing upheaval in the ME for better or worse. This is a story that will be very long in the unfolding. The forces in play there are much larger than our military actions, larger than a nuclear Iran even. Who knows how this will all shake out? I know that I don’t and I don’t know anyone else that does either.
As for being emasculated in our response to Iran, how do you figure? The one does not necessarily follow the other. New administrations, new and more urgent threats, etc.
Tactically we are most likely capable of setting their program back for years at any time of our choosing.
| 582 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:57:08pm |
re: #547 SanFranciscoZionist
Please don’t suggest that ‘average liberals’ don’t have loved ones in the military. Two of my college friends have lost brothers in Iraq, and my BIL is about to go back for what I think may be a fourth deployment. We are all about as liberal as it gets.
I have a cousin there, one of my gamer buddies from a few years ago is over there, also one of my partner’s good friends is an officer in Iraq. And he’s a socialist of the euro variety. And he takes great pride in bringing it up :D
| 583 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:57:52pm |
re: #564 windsagio
Its an outrage that neither of Obama’s kids has served a day.
Damn straight. And did he go to Vietnam? NO.
| 584 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:58:36pm |
re: #574 Spare O’Lake
PLease don’t start that, Spare. You just got here. Don’t head right on in baiting Ludwig. It just makes things ugly.
| 585 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:58:53pm |
re: #583 SanFranciscoZionist
Damn straight. And did he go to Vietnam? NO.
He couldn’t even be bothered to show up for Thermopylae.
| 586 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:58:56pm |
re: #579 windsagio
I think the base point of that discussion is that theres something messed up about sending others relatives off to die but not your own.
Me saying “I don’t want my kids to fight, but I don’t want yours to either!” isn’t quite the same thing.
you saying ‘i don’t think this is worth sending kids to fight’
and a military parent saying ‘it sure as hell is’
…is a missing base point of the discussion. if not having a horse in the race affects one’s judgment, it affects one’s judgment.
or maybe we all deserve to cast our votes like good little citizens…
| 587 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:59:16pm |
re: #577 Cato the Elder
No, but we can disrupt Iran’s nuclear program and set them back a decade or two, something I would seriously prefer to seeing them get a functioning bomb.
See, I don’t know that we can. I think the only thing that will set it back decades is to essentially invade occupy the country. I think the knowledge and the sites are decentralized to the point where we can’t just disrupt them.
I don’t think there is anything short of full on invasion or nuclear devastation that will prevent them from getting the bomb.
| 588 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:59:28pm |
re: #584 Dark_Falcon
Asking that is like asking the sun not to shine >>
| 589 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 8:59:40pm |
re: #335 Olsonist
If you recall, the Bush administration lobbied the Turks very hard to be in the coalition. Bribed is a better word. It wasn’t even close; the Turks turned down everything. The Turks wanted nothing to do with the endgame in Iraq. They have enough trouble with the Kurds as it is.
So? I’d like all the allies I could get in any war. Still doesn’t mean we were wrong because they didn’t want to play with us. Was Canada right to go into WWI without us? Was little old England right to go it alone? Every country makes its decisions based on its own best interests, political, and cultural beliefs.
| 590 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:00:04pm |
re: #581 The Shadow Do
You hold a very popular view in the context of the day. This is a view that will be subject to historical review for more years than you or I will be alive I suspect.
Basically you have no actual answer to what she said so you just say, WELL THERE’S…PEOPLE WILL EXAMINE IT! YOU JUST WAIT!
| 591 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:00:10pm |
Barry, an incredible talent.
and a quitter.
| 592 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:00:17pm |
re: #586 Aceofwhat?
Or the political leadership is… That’s the issue :p
The military is mainly saying “YES SIR!”
| 593 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:00:17pm |
re: #578 Aceofwhat?
Oh, the ‘chickenhawk’ talk is all about how to get more liberals’ children in the army. Silly me.
The point is: pretending that just because you have a loved one in the military, your silly weak mind will snap around to the point of view shared by ___, is fallacious at best and insulting at worst.
Which, by dint of nearly being insulted, you’ve proven quite nicely!
hat tip-
I haven’t expressed an opinion about that argument.
But pretending that ‘liberals’ or people who are opposed to the war have no one serving does offend me deeply.
| 594 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:00:40pm |
re: #562 ozbloke
Thanks Ludwig,
You are welcome.
The article would seem to have huge implications.
Yet there is hardly a mention of it in the world press.
It has massive implications if true. The difficulty behind the process revolved around being able to produce a lasers of the right frequencies and intensities to do the job. If such a laser system is actually in hand, then yes, we could be looking at a small warehouse sized facility out performing a multi acre centrifuge facility by orders of magnitude in terms of production.
Nuclear is often touted as an alternate energy for the future along with wind/solar/water.
I am one of the largest touters of nuclear energy as an AGW solution that you will likely meet. This technology certainly has an upside that would reduce the cost of building certain types of reactors.
Could this put an end to this goal?
If that technology stays firmly and only in the right hands. That is a big giant if.
How hard will it be to put that genie back?
Impossible if it gets out. Impossible.
This is actually the worst news I have heard in a very long time.
| 595 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:01:49pm |
re: #575 albusteve
Cato’s responses were very generous and honest, yet they annoy you…nobody is trying to fool you, drop the paranoid riff
Steve please do try to bother someone else. It works for Bagua and me. It could work for you as well.
| 596 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:01:51pm |
re: #593 SanFranciscoZionist
I haven’t expressed an opinion about that argument.
But pretending that ‘liberals’ or people who are opposed to the war have no one serving does offend me deeply.
and it dehumanizes and “others” an honest political point of view.
| 597 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:02:19pm |
re: #587 WindUpBird
See, I don’t know that we can. I think the only thing that will set it back decades is to essentially invade occupy the country. I think the knowledge and the sites are decentralized to the point where we can’t just disrupt them.
I don’t think there is anything short of full on invasion or nuclear devastation that will prevent them from getting the bomb.
well maybe not so much, you also have to figure in an unstable government…
| 598 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:02:27pm |
re: #587 WindUpBird
See, I don’t know that we can. I think the only thing that will set it back decades is to essentially invade occupy the country. I think the knowledge and the sites are decentralized to the point where we can’t just disrupt them.
I don’t think there is anything short of full on invasion or nuclear devastation that will prevent them from getting the bomb.
You don’t have to take it all down. Just the critical points in the process. You can lose your electric power by taking down a transmission tower; no need to blow up the generating facility.
| 599 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:03:13pm |
re: #597 brookly red
Which, unless we overthrow it, would only be strengthened by an attack. Didn’t we learn anything from Mossadeq?
| 600 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:03:13pm |
re: #580 Aceofwhat?
Grading O-lines isn’t exactly string theory.
Sanders was undependable…he was not much of a goal line threat, in fact they used to pull him out…he was not a money player, someone that will get you two yards when you needed on…he was terrible at following his blockers (where Emmitt was a patient master) and ran all over the field against the grain…granted his O line was not hall of fame but with his talent, why didn’t he overcome that?…he made his line look far worse that they were, and I know this because I understand the game and saw him play scores of times…the line argument does not hold up under scrutiny…who the hell were the Cowboy linemen before Emmitt?…nobodies…sorry, you are simply wrong
| 601 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:03:20pm |
re: #598 The Shadow Do
You don’t have to take it all down. Just the critical points in the process. You can lose your electric power by taking down a transmission tower; no need to blow up the generating facility.
Which would delay them, what, a few hours?
| 602 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:03:40pm |
re: #594 LudwigVanQuixote
Thanks Ludwig,
I very much appreciate your input.
This news scares the bejeebus out of me, because it has been achieved.
Form the link:
Dr Slakey admires their achievement.
“It’s a significant advance from a physics point of view because they were able to accomplish what 20 other countries were unable to,” he said.
| 603 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:03:45pm |
re: #581 The Shadow Do
You hold a very popular view in the context of the day. This is a view that will be subject to historical review for more years than you or I will be alive I suspect.
Personally I think it is an early though seminal event in the ongoing upheaval in the ME for better or worse. This is a story that will be very long in the unfolding. The forces in play there are much larger than our military actions, larger than a nuclear Iran even. Who knows how this will all shake out? I know that I don’t and I don’t know anyone else that does either.
As for being emasculated in our response to Iran, how do you figure? The one does not necessarily follow the other. New administrations, new and more urgent threats, etc.
Tactically we are most likely capable of setting their program back for years at any time of our choosing.
I was opposed to the Iraq war from the start. I knew that Bush was lying about an Iraqi atomic program and so did every other competent physicist on the planet.
| 604 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:04:02pm |
re: #588 windsagio
Asking that is like asking the sun not to shine >>
Wrong again Windbag.
And good natured ribbing is not baiting.
| 605 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:05:15pm |
re: #598 The Shadow Do
You don’t have to take it all down. Just the critical points in the process. You can lose your electric power by taking down a transmission tower; no need to blow up the generating facility.
Okay, and we don’t know where the critical points are. Then what?
You think their research is like plugging a thing into a wall socket?
| 606 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:05:27pm |
re: #601 Varek Raith
Which would delay them, what, a few hours?
Only if you are targeting the wrong sites. I think we know exactly where to place the ordnace to best effect.
| 607 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:05:31pm |
re: #603 LudwigVanQuixote
I was trying to find the psychiatrist scene from brain candy to link, but I failed.
I knew it too, and I’m no physicist :P
| 608 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:05:43pm |
re: #599 windsagio
Which, unless we overthrow it, would only be strengthened by an attack. Didn’t we learn anything from Mossadeq?
of course, but even if fully united Iran could stand toe to toe with us for a week maybe two.
| 609 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:05:52pm |
re: #591 The Shadow Do
Barry, an incredible talent.
and a quitter.
yep, exactly…I lived up there and the fans know a quitter when they see one, and Sanders stiffed everyone, players and fans alike
| 610 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:06:11pm |
re: #599 windsagio
Which, unless we overthrow it, would only be strengthened by an attack. Didn’t we learn anything from Mossadeq?
shhhh they don’t bring up mossadeq here. Removes our moral superiority on Iran :D
WHY DO THAT HATE US SO MUCH WOW I CAN’T FIGURE IT OUT
| 611 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:06:11pm |
re: #607 windsagio
I was trying to find the psychiatrist scene from brain candy to link, but I failed.
I knew it too, and I’m no physicist :P
Yeah, but we could prove it, and many tried. We failed to be heard.
| 612 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:06:17pm |
re: #581 The Shadow Do
You hold a very popular view in the context of the day. This is a view that will be subject to historical review for more years than you or I will be alive I suspect.
Personally I think it is an early though seminal event in the ongoing upheaval in the ME for better or worse. This is a story that will be very long in the unfolding. The forces in play there are much larger than our military actions, larger than a nuclear Iran even. Who knows how this will all shake out? I know that I don’t and I don’t know anyone else that does either.
As for being emasculated in our response to Iran, how do you figure? The one does not necessarily follow the other. New administrations, new and more urgent threats, etc.
Tactically we are most likely capable of setting their program back for years at any time of our choosing.
I see this being placed at the feet of the Israelis. Whether they want it or not! That’s probably where it will end up.
If worse comes to worse, I’d hope it was a joint effort with us and Israel. I can see it shaking out that way. I think there are a lot of inbetweens, however, like bombing their reactors in some way… like in Iraq in 1981.
| 613 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:06:25pm |
re: #606 The Shadow Do
Only if you are targeting the wrong sites. I think we know exactly where to place the ordnace to best effect.
Wasn’t there an intel report that stated most of their critical points were deep withing mountains where nothing short of a nuclear bunker buster could reach?
| 614 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:06:31pm |
re: #593 SanFranciscoZionist
I haven’t expressed an opinion about that argument.
But pretending that ‘liberals’ or people who are opposed to the war have no one serving does offend me deeply.
No one is pretending that. What we are pretending is that if there was more compulsory military service, there would be more opposition to “war”.
Which conveniently ignores, IIRC, 2004 voting patterns, in addition to being an illogical reason to support a draft.
Be not concerned. Your honor remains intact-
| 615 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:06:57pm |
re: #603 LudwigVanQuixote
I was opposed to the Iraq war from the start. I knew that Bush was lying about an Iraqi atomic program and so did every other competent physicist on the planet.
But that just does not matter now.
| 616 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:07:04pm |
re: #612 marjoriemoon
Its certainly 100x more Israel’s business than ours.
| 617 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:07:07pm |
re: #595 LudwigVanQuixote
Steve please do try to bother someone else. It works for Bagua and me. It could work for you as well.
too bad if I bother you…I have every right to respond to any post, including yours…deal with it
| 618 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:07:12pm |
re: #486 NJDhockeyfan
Yes as is (or was) Sen. Tim Johnson’s son, General John Ashcroft’s son, Sen Christopher Bond’s son, Rep Duncan Hunter’s son, Rep Joe Wilson’s 3 sons, Sen James Webb’s son, Rep John Kline’s son, Joe Biden’s son, Rep Jim Saxton’s son, Rep Marilyn Musgrave’s son, Rep. Ike Skelton’s son, and Rep. Todd Akin’s son.
“General” John Ashcroft?
ROFLMFAO!
Oh, thank you, I haven’t seen that particular idiot turn of phrase in years. Which wingnut site did you pull that off of?
The Attorney General is not a general. Neither is the Postmaster General, or, necessarily, the Inspector General. Though in the latter case he might be.
“General” in these cases is not a rank, it’s a postpositive adjective, i.e. coming after the noun it modifies. Like “la fille bonne” in French. The guy in charge of the Post Office is the general postmaster.
But don’t worry, I once saw Ted Koppel address Janet Reno as “General” on teevee. Laughed even harder then.
| 619 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:07:28pm |
re: #608 brookly red
of course, but even if fully united Iran could stand toe to toe with us for a week maybe two.
And it would take us… a decade or two to stick the pieces back together into a functioning nation unless you just leave those people to die of starvation, disease, roaming bands of armed insurgents….
| 620 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:08:03pm |
Just got back from watching a movie with the wife.
Anybody need to be annoyed?
| 621 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:08:09pm |
re: #618 Cato the Elder
The Surgeon general is an Admiral tho >>
| 622 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:08:31pm |
re: #587 WindUpBird
See, I don’t know that we can. I think the only thing that will set it back decades is to essentially invade occupy the country. I think the knowledge and the sites are decentralized to the point where we can’t just disrupt them.
I don’t think there is anything short of full on invasion or nuclear devastation that will prevent them from getting the bomb.
Well, if that’s what it takes.
| 623 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:08:39pm |
re: #616 windsagio
Its certainly 100x more Israel’s business than ours.
I don’t know about that, mainly because Israel’s business in pretty much the world’s business. They do quite a lot to make this planet go round.
| 624 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:08:43pm |
re: #618 Cato the Elder
“General” John Ashcroft?
ROFLMFAO!
Oh, thank you, I haven’t seen that particular idiot turn of phrase in years. Which wingnut site did you pull that off of?
The Attorney General is not a general. Neither is the Postmaster General, or, necessarily, the Inspector General. Though in the latter case he might be.
“General” in these cases is not a rank, it’s a postpositive adjective, i.e. coming after the noun it modifies. Like “la fille bonne” in French. The guy in charge of the Post Office is the general postmaster.
But don’t worry, I once saw Ted Koppel address Janet Reno as “General” on teevee. Laughed even harder then.
Hey. Speaking of former AG John Ashcroft:
During the Vietnam War, he received six student military draft deferments and one occupational deferment due to his teaching work, allowing him to avoid service in the war.
| 625 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:08:46pm |
re: #614 Aceofwhat?
No one is pretending that. What we are pretending is that if there was more compulsory military service, there would be more opposition to “war”.
Which conveniently ignores, IIRC, 2004 voting patterns, in addition to being an illogical reason to support a draft.
Be not concerned. Your honor remains intact-
Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of a few posts. But it’s not my honor I am worried about.
| 626 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:08:47pm |
re: #620 b_sharp
Just got back from watching a movie with the wife.
Anybody need to be annoyed?
No, we’re doing a decent job keeping ourselves minorly annoyed.
| 627 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:09:24pm |
re: #602 ozbloke
Thanks Ludwig,
I very much appreciate your input.
This news scares the bejeebus out of me, because it has been achieved.
Form the link:
Dr Slakey admires their achievement.
“It’s a significant advance from a physics point of view because they were able to accomplish what 20 other countries were unable to,” he said.
This is truly horrible news. I am even more upset that this has made an article. If the MSM knows about it, then the intelligence types around the world knew about it five years ago.
It is very difficult to put into words the potential dangers of the misuse of that technology. It makes it easy and affordable for any two bit dictator or large enough terrorist group to enrich their own uranium quickly and clandestinely.
| 628 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:09:39pm |
re: #609 albusteve
yep, exactly…I lived up there and the fans know a quitter when they see one, and Sanders stiffed everyone, players and fans alike
Right, Lord knows Detroit was going places…9_9
smartest. move. ever.
| 629 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:09:39pm |
re: #626 Dark_Falcon
No, we’re doing a decent job keeping ourselves minorly annoyed.
Good to hear.
Just in case, you know where I am.
| 630 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:09:48pm |
re: #359 WindUpBird
See, I don’t know that we can. I think the only thing that will set it back decades is to essentially invade occupy the country. I think the knowledge and the sites are decentralized to the point where we can’t just disrupt them.
I don’t think there is anything short of full on invasion or nuclear devastation that will prevent them from getting the bomb.
When I am not playing silly, I have to say, the fact that they are already back a couple decades is a huge part of the problem. Sadly, they don’t want to catch up with the rest of the world. (Well, some do, but not the leadership.)
| 632 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:09:54pm |
re: #623 marjoriemoon
Hrm. They’re not as important as people on here think.
Also I trust they’re able to handle something like that on their own.
Well if it can be handled at all >>
| 633 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:10:06pm |
re: #619 jamesfirecat
And it would take us… a decade or two to stick the pieces back together into a functioning nation unless you just leave those people to die of starvation, disease, roaming bands of armed insurgents…
again maybe, but it is what it is. we have the assets in place, we are training an Iraqi army. i can not predict the future but i can read the writing on the wall.
| 634 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:10:28pm |
| 635 |
Pie-onist Overlord Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:10:36pm |
re: #618 Cato the Elder
“General” John Ashcroft?
ROFLMFAO!
Oh, thank you, I haven’t seen that particular idiot turn of phrase in years. Which wingnut site did you pull that off of?
The Attorney General is not a general. Neither is the Postmaster General, or, necessarily, the Inspector General. Though in the latter case he might be.
“General” in these cases is not a rank, it’s a postpositive adjective, i.e. coming after the noun it modifies. Like “la fille bonne” in French. The guy in charge of the Post Office is the general postmaster.
But don’t worry, I once saw Ted Koppel address Janet Reno as “General” on teevee. Laughed even harder then.
But the Surgeon General gets to wear a kick-ass uniform!
| 636 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:10:39pm |
| 637 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:10:55pm |
re: #361 Escaped Hillbilly
So? I’d like all the allies I could get in any war. Still doesn’t mean we were wrong because they didn’t want to play with us. Was Canada right to go into
WWIWWII without us? Was little old England right to go it alone? Every country makes its decisions based on its own best interests, political, and cultural beliefs.
Oops. Spell check can’t catch everything.
| 638 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:11:20pm |
re: #617 albusteve
too bad if I bother you…I have every right to respond to any post, including yours…deal with it
Dude, you can continue to try to pick fights you know you will eventually become obnoxious enough that I start writing about what an insufferable, ignorant piece of shit you are - or we could just avoid that whole cycle.
| 639 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:11:32pm |
re: #620 b_sharp
Just got back from watching a movie with the wife.
Anybody need to be annoyed?
what’d you see?
| 640 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:11:38pm |
re: #632 windsagio
Hrm. They’re not as important as people on here think.
Also I trust they’re able to handle something like that on their own.
Well if it can be handled at all >>
You don’t think so? Do you realize the technologies that come out of Israel? Computing, bio-technology, agricultural, medicine, ever science imaginable.
| 641 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:12:08pm |
re: #638 LudwigVanQuixote
Our host actually had to slap him down last week, he moderated for a day or 2 after that.
| 642 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:12:23pm |
re: #611 LudwigVanQuixote
Yeah, but we could prove it, and many tried. We failed to be heard.
links…I never heard this one…must have been a very faint voice…how come Kennedy, Kerry, Clinton and the rest of the high powered opposition missed that one too?…everybody but you and you scientists assumed Saddam had or was striving for WMDs….how do you explain this raging silence?
| 643 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:12:34pm |
re: #639 Aceofwhat?
what’d you see?
We cuddled up on the couch and watched a chick-flick - Transporter 3.
| 644 |
Olsonist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:12:37pm |
re: #634 Gus 802
Yeah, but did Ashcroft fuck his way out of the Vietnam War? Cheney did!
| 645 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:13:00pm |
re: #616 windsagio
Its certainly 100x more Israel’s business than ours.
No it is certainly our business too. Unless and until we switch off of an oil paradigm for this economy, a nuclear armed Iran could bully the market and us with impunity.
| 646 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:13:22pm |
re: #395 marjoriemoon
I don’t know about that, mainly because Israel’s business in pretty much the world’s business. They do quite a lot to make this planet go round.
Could you expand on that? Sounds more interesting than rehashing this draft question thingy.
| 647 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:13:23pm |
re: #633 brookly red
again maybe, but it is what it is. we have the assets in place, we are training an Iraqi army. i can not predict the future but i can read the writing on the wall.
I’m just saying lets not go patting ourselves on the back, yes we could totally blow up Iran if we wanted to and if a woman got knocked up on the day the war started it’d be close betting of if the war would “be over” before she realized she was pregnant (it’s past midnight on Saturday excuse the weirdness) but if we want to maintain/inspire respectability in the eyes of the world the “you break it you bought it” rule applies, and fixing Iran is gonna take a while….
| 648 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:13:27pm |
re: #640 marjoriemoon
Which would be no different than the US, Germany, freakin’ Denmark, you name it.
Not saying they’re meaningless, I’m just saying the midevalist ‘Jerusalem is the center of the world’ shtick isn’t quite right.
| 649 |
Pie-onist Overlord Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:13:29pm |
re: #643 b_sharp
We cuddled up on the couch and watched a chick-flick - Transporter 3.
Last week I watched “The Stoning of Soraya M.” Like Mel Gibson’s “Passion of the Christ” only with a woman.
| 650 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:13:35pm |
re: #644 Olsonist
Yeah, but did Ashcroft fuck his way out of the Vietnam War? Cheney did!
But! But!
Here’s Karl Rove:
In the fall of 1969, Rove entered the University of Utah, on a $1,000 scholarship, as a political science major and joined the Pi Kappa Alpha fraternity. As with many others of his generation, enrollment in college protected him from being drafted to fight in the Vietnam War.
| 651 |
ausador Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:13:45pm |
re: #442 albusteve
haha! good one…the USAF are a bunch of goons that couldn’t hit the side of a barn…okay…I reduced the problem down to the essentials, with the impression that Israel and the US have enough intel to set them back, not eliminate their program…if not then there are other targets rich for creating havoc on the program regardless if we can’t bingo their warhead stash…my post did not consider the rest of the world, which doesn’t mean I don’t know it exists…anyway, it’s coming down to fuck them, right?
It is coming down to a game of M.A.D. (mutually assured destruction) in the middle east, the same game we have been playing with Russia and to a lesser extent with China for the last 60 years.
What is going to change in the middle east when (not if) Iran gets “the bomb” not one effing thing, nothing. Except that maybe they wont be able to talk big about destroying Israel anymore once they actually have the means but not the will to do it when it means their own destruction too.
And before you bring up terrorism nukes supplied by Iran just let me say that we would know, we can identify exactly which reactor in the world any nuclear material came from. So, do you really think they are going to give someone a nuke to use on Washington when they know that we would annihilate their country half a day later once we were sure where it came from?
According to my reading their are currently 11 more countries thought to be within 3 years of having nuclear weapons, non-proliferation treaty be damned. The world is just going to have to deal with it somehow.
What used to exotic and cutting edge science is now common place technology, building a bomb is no longer all that hard. Only getting the materials to build one is…
| 652 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:13:56pm |
re: #598 The Shadow Do
You don’t have to take it all down. Just the critical points in the process. You can lose your electric power by taking down a transmission tower; no need to blow up the generating facility.
people refuse to understand the logistics…really it’s hopeless
| 653 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:14:16pm |
re: #642 albusteve
links…I never heard this one…must have been a very faint voice…how come Kennedy, Kerry, Clinton and the rest of the high powered opposition missed that one too?…everybody but you and you scientists assumed Saddam had or was striving for WMDs…how do you explain this raging silence?
There was a lot of skepticism at the time. It was met with screeching mockery. And the opposition went with the political path of least resistence.
| 654 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:14:35pm |
re: #638 LudwigVanQuixote
Dude, you can continue to try to pick fights you know you will eventually become obnoxious enough that I start writing about what an insufferable, ignorant piece of shit you are - or we could just avoid that whole cycle.
{sigh}
As Porky Pig said
ebida, ebida, ebida,, thats All, folks!
| 655 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:14:42pm |
re: #632 windsagio
Hrm. They’re not as important as people on here think.
Also I trust they’re able to handle something like that on their own.
Well if it can be handled at all >>
While my husband was in the army, he trained in Colorado with Israeli troops. He was impressed with their tank maneuvers.
| 656 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:14:46pm |
re: #649 Alouette
Last week I watched “The Stoning of Soraya M.” Like Mel Gibson’s “Passion of the Christ” only with a woman.
Any good?
| 657 |
Pie-onist Overlord Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:15:15pm |
| 658 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:15:15pm |
re: #628 Aceofwhat?
Right, Lord knows Detroit was going places…9_9
smartest. move. ever.
yeah…good riddance too…big time
| 659 |
Escaped Hillbilly Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:15:17pm |
| 660 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:15:39pm |
re: #655 marjoriemoon
While my husband was in the army, he trained in Colorado with Israeli troops. He was impressed with their tank maneuvers.
Is that what you crazy kids call it nowadays!?
| 661 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:15:50pm |
re: #642 albusteve
links…I never heard this one…must have been a very faint voice…how come Kennedy, Kerry, Clinton and the rest of the high powered opposition missed that one too?…everybody but you and you scientists assumed Saddam had or was striving for WMDs…how do you explain this raging silence?
You really are ignorant. Why not go and look at what the scientific groups were saying at the time. The “high powered” opposition was too politically frightened to make a stand. Clinton et al completely wussed out. They know it. We know it.
The fact that U235 production requires - or at least until recently, if we have SILEX actually working, required - MASSIVE MULTI ACRE INDUSTRIAL FACILITIES THAT YOU COULD SEE FROM SPACE WITH THE NAKED EYE would be a clue.
| 662 |
Jadespring Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:16:05pm |
re: #637 Escaped Hillbilly
Oops. Spell check can’t catch everything.
Your first comment was right as well.
| 663 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:16:20pm |
re: #659 Escaped Hillbilly
Count, you forgot the “ah-ha-ha”.
Woops. A ha ha! Not really my style though. ;)
| 664 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:16:36pm |
re: #643 b_sharp
We cuddled up on the couch and watched a chick-flick - Transporter 3.
yikes. i like Jason Statham and all, but the first one was enough for me. one long car chase…
Men Who Stare at Goats was ok…not great, but worth watching.
| 665 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:16:54pm |
re: #647 jamesfirecat
I’m just saying lets not go patting ourselves on the back, yes we could totally blow up Iran if we wanted to and if a woman got knocked up on the day the war started it’d be close betting of if the war would “be over” before she realized she was pregnant (it’s past midnight on Saturday excuse the weirdness) but if we want to maintain/inspire respectability in the eyes of the world the “you break it you bought it” rule applies, and fixing Iran is gonna take a while…
no back patting, just the facts. did you ever wonder why we a re training a large Iraqi army ? I mean why would we be doing that?
| 666 |
Olsonist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:17:13pm |
re: #650 Gus 802
I bow before your superior knowledge of Republican warmongering draft dodgers.
| 667 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:17:15pm |
re: #613 Varek Raith
Wasn’t there an intel report that stated most of their critical points were deep withing mountains where nothing short of a nuclear bunker buster could reach?
I highly suspect we sufficient conventional weapons to turn those sites into tombs. An attempt to reopen would prompt a follow up attack? I do think there are options and that they will not be well publicized.
Because there are options I believe we have not acted…yet.
| 668 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:17:29pm |
re: #587 WindUpBird
See, I don’t know that we can. I think the only thing that will set it back decades is to essentially invade occupy the country. I think the knowledge and the sites are decentralized to the point where we can’t just disrupt them.
I don’t think there is anything short of full on invasion or nuclear devastation that will prevent them from getting the bomb.
Of course you don’t know…none of us know. But the Israelis know, and so does the Pentagon. I expect this will prove to be Obama’s biggest foreign policy test.
| 669 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:18:11pm |
re: #666 Olsonist
I bow before your superior knowledge of Republican warmongering draft dodgers.
Just found this list:
| 670 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:18:28pm |
re: #665 brookly red
no back patting, just the facts. did you ever wonder why we a re training a large Iraqi army ? I mean why would we be doing that?
Ahh you see I am a hippy liberal who though they were training a large Iraqi army because their nation is still not all that far removed from civil war and they would need the army to go around policing the place and finally restoring a sense of order.
Shows you what I get for thinking the best of people….
| 671 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:18:50pm |
re: #646 Escaped Hillbilly
Could you expand on that? Sounds more interesting than rehashing this draft question thingy.
What I meant is that Israel gives the world a great deal. They have the highest ratio of university degrees to its population in the world. They produce more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people. They have the highest per capita rates of patents filed. Medicine, agriculture, all kinds of technology and sciences. The intel chip was designed in Israel. Voicemail and cell phone technology was developed in Israel. The world needs Israel.
| 672 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:19:17pm |
re: #653 SanFranciscoZionist
There was a lot of skepticism at the time. It was met with screeching mockery. And the opposition went with the political path of least resistence.
I don’t recall…when virtually every politician in America, and world leaders everywhere expect this ambition for WMDs the opposition was pretty faint…I just asked Lud to show where physicists world wide were in opposition…they didn’t make any noise that i remember, as a typical citizen
| 673 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:19:35pm |
re: #665 brookly red
no back patting, just the facts. did you ever wonder why we a re training a large Iraqi army ? I mean why would we be doing that?
To defend Iraq against Sunni Islamists within and Iranians without.
| 674 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:19:59pm |
re: #670 jamesfirecat
Ahh you see I am a hippy liberal who though they were training a large Iraqi army because their nation is still not all that far removed from civil war and they would need the army to go around policing the place and finally restoring a sense of order.
Shows you what I get for thinking the best of people…
the anti tank weapons are a sure give away…
| 675 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:20:06pm |
re: #668 Spare O’Lake
Of course you don’t know…none of us know. But the Israelis know, and so does the Pentagon. I expect this will prove to be Obama’s biggest foreign policy test.
Agreed.
| 676 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:20:11pm |
re: #668 Spare O’Lake
Of course you don’t know…none of us know. But the Israelis know, and so does the Pentagon. I expect this will prove to be Obama’s biggest foreign policy test.
As predicted by Biden!!
| 677 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:20:27pm |
Since I have to go anyways, willing to define for the class what a ‘troll’ is yet Spare?
I’ve been waiting for like, HOURS!
| 678 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:20:43pm |
re: #661 LudwigVanQuixote
I heard GE dont pay taxes in the USA. How wonderful.
From the post:
Now General Electric Hitachi wants a licence from US regulators to build the world’s first SILEX plant in North Carolina.
Dr Slakey says that cannot be allowed because it is too dangerous.
“From everything I’ve heard about this plant, it’s too risky to proceed,” he said.
Dr Slakey says laser enrichment is dangerous because it is almost undetectable.
The SILEX process is 75 per cent smaller than current enrichment technologies, drawing no more electricity than a dozen homes.
“This next generation technology is so efficient and so small that we would no longer be able to see it with our satellites and we would no longer be able to detect whether there was some power source going into it, because it uses so little power,” he said.
And with US president Barack Obama convening his nuclear security summit in Washington, Dr Slakey says regulators must take into account proliferation risks before licensing new technologies.
“Historically every enrichment technology - that is every technology that has been used to develop nuclear fuel, every single one of them - has proliferated despite best efforts to keep the secret,” he said.
America’s Nuclear Regulatory Commission says it will look closely at security measures to protect SILEX’s secrets.
| 679 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:20:54pm |
re: #673 Dark_Falcon
To defend Iraq against Sunni Islamists within and Iranians without.
and the best defense is?
| 680 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:21:02pm |
re: #664 Aceofwhat?
yikes. i like Jason Statham and all, but the first one was enough for me. one long car chase…
Men Who Stare at Goats was ok…not great, but worth watching.
My wife and I groove (yes, we’re products of the ’60s&’70s) on bad action and bad sci fi films. We laugh at all the improbable antics of the hero and his/her technology.
We both loved Men Who Stare at Goats.
| 681 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:21:08pm |
re: #638 LudwigVanQuixote
downdinged for the POS reference
Why do you constantly have to do that? Your rebuffs would be so much better without
| 682 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:21:36pm |
re: #676 Aceofwhat?
As predicted by Biden!!
Well if you say enough stuff some of it’s bound to be true.
HI-YO!
| 683 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:21:37pm |
re: #672 albusteve
I don’t recall…when virtually every politician in America, and world leaders everywhere expect this ambition for WMDs the opposition was pretty faint…I just asked Lud to show where physicists world wide were in opposition…they didn’t make any noise that i remember, as a typical citizen
The fact that U235 production requires - or at least until recently, if we have SILEX actually working, required - MASSIVE MULTI ACRE INDUSTRIAL FACILITIES THAT YOU COULD SEE FROM SPACE WITH THE NAKED EYE would be a clue.
| 684 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:21:39pm |
| 685 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:21:40pm |
re: #625 SanFranciscoZionist
I would suggest you consider re-reading.
Ace’s response that you initially took issue with was limited to responding to something jamesfirecat said, I thought, and I didn’t read the intention the way you did. Just my .02
| 686 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:22:00pm |
re: #648 windsagio
Which would be no different than the US, Germany, freakin’ Denmark, you name it.
Not saying they’re meaningless, I’m just saying the midevalist ‘Jerusalem is the center of the world’ shtick isn’t quite right.
Well yea it is, but I’m ok that you don’t see that.
| 687 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:22:09pm |
re: #677 windsagio
Since I have to go anyways, willing to define for the class what a ‘troll’ is yet Spare?
I’ve been waiting for like, HOURS!
You need a more fulfilling hobby!
| 688 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:22:34pm |
| 689 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:22:40pm |
re: #650 Gus 802
But! But!
Here’s Karl Rove:
In the fall of 1969, Rove entered the University of Utah, on a $1,000 scholarship, as a political science major and joined the Pi Kappa Alpha fraternity. As with many others of his generation, enrollment in college protected him from being drafted to fight in the Vietnam War.
Guess what folks. Just about everyone of my generation took advantage of the deferments when we could. Fact.
It was a bad war. Most of us knew it. Period.
There are no political points to be made. Bill Clinton would agree.
| 690 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:22:52pm |
re: #661 LudwigVanQuixote
You really are ignorant. Why not go and look at what the scientific groups were saying at the time. The “high powered” opposition was too politically frightened to make a stand. Clinton et al completely wussed out. They know it. We know it.
The fact that U235 production requires - or at least until recently, if we have SILEX actually working, required - MASSIVE MULTI ACRE INDUSTRIAL FACILITIES THAT YOU COULD SEE FROM SPACE WITH THE NAKED EYE would be a clue.
then why was it so difficult to get Bill Clinton to understand?…are you saying he and others simply lied their way past the facts?…for what purpose?…and the notion was bipartisan…the reason I don’t go back and look at scientific groups is because I don’t know who they are…I rely on your expertise to provide a link or two
| 691 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:23:23pm |
re: #687 sattv4u2
I know right? Its just sad. The game I’m playing isn’t fullscreen, so It keeps me at the blog too.
| 692 |
Jadespring Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:23:28pm |
| 693 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:23:28pm |
re: #684 SanFranciscoZionist
Blowing up the Middle East, apparently.
well I am not the one running the show…
| 694 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:23:34pm |
re: #683 LudwigVanQuixote
The fact that U235 production requires - or at least until recently, if we have SILEX actually working, required - MASSIVE MULTI ACRE INDUSTRIAL FACILITIES THAT YOU COULD SEE FROM SPACE WITH THE NAKED EYE would be a clue.
So….my plans for building one in the basement are shot to hell?
:(
/
| 695 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:24:20pm |
re: #694 Varek Raith
So…my plans for building one in the basement are shot to hell?
:(
/
“we’re gonna need a bigger basement”
| 696 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:24:57pm |
re: #679 brookly red
and the best defense is?
Defense in Depth. So Iraq will have an armored division and at least two mechanized infantry divisions, as well as other divisions intended more for positional pacification and defense. The anti-tank weapons are to eliminate urban positions that it would be cost-prohibitive to assault and to deal with the threat of Iranian armor.
| 697 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:25:09pm |
re: #680 b_sharp
My wife and I groove (yes, we’re products of the ’60s&’70s) on bad action and bad sci fi films. We laugh at all the improbable antics of the hero and his/her technology.
We both loved Men Who Stare at Goats.
my problem was comparing it to Burn After Reading, which my wife and i loved. MWSaG just wasn’t quite as…what’s the word…deadpan.
| 698 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:25:34pm |
re: #695 sattv4u2
“we’re gonna need a bigger basement”
Oh, good point! Now, how to accomplish this expansion without alerting the neighbors or the Feds.
| 699 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:25:39pm |
re: #685 reine.de.tout
I would suggest you consider re-reading.
Ace’s response that you initially took issue with was limited to responding to something jamesfirecat said, I thought, and I didn’t read the intention the way you did. Just my .02
I see that, upon rereading. Sorry if I swiped at Ace over it.
Something of a sore spot with me, as is probably apparent.
| 700 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:25:48pm |
re: #678 ozbloke
I heard GE dont pay taxes in the USA. How wonderful.
From the post:
Now General Electric Hitachi wants a licence from US regulators to build the world’s first SILEX plant in North Carolina.Dr Slakey says that cannot be allowed because it is too dangerous.
“From everything I’ve heard about this plant, it’s too risky to proceed,” he said.
Dr Slakey says laser enrichment is dangerous because it is almost undetectable.
The SILEX process is 75 per cent smaller than current enrichment technologies, drawing no more electricity than a dozen homes.
“This next generation technology is so efficient and so small that we would no longer be able to see it with our satellites and we would no longer be able to detect whether there was some power source going into it, because it uses so little power,” he said.
And with US president Barack Obama convening his nuclear security summit in Washington, Dr Slakey says regulators must take into account proliferation risks before licensing new technologies.
“Historically every enrichment technology - that is every technology that has been used to develop nuclear fuel, every single one of them - has proliferated despite best efforts to keep the secret,” he said.
America’s Nuclear Regulatory Commission says it will look closely at security measures to protect SILEX’s secrets.
Yes this is exactly what I am saying.
It is too tempting for the US - or any nation state to put down, if they have the technology. Of course we will build it. Of course the tech will get out. Of course there will be consequences. Of course if we on’t build it, someone else will now that people know it has been done.
It is a disgusting and terrible mess.
I actually did a calculation about this as a graduate student. The process is painfully simple. It was the engineering that was the hurdle. I really want to vomit now.
| 701 |
Stanley Sea Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:25:52pm |
| 702 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:25:58pm |
re: #689 The Shadow Do
Guess what folks. Just about everyone of my generation took advantage of the deferments when we could. Fact.
It was a bad war. Most of us knew it. Period.
There are no political points to be made. Bill Clinton would agree.
You mean whoever was college bound or well connected too advantage of the deferments. Those that were either high school graduates or drop outs were left with no option other than to become draft dodgers.
So the impoverished were left with the stigma of being called draft dodgers while the well connected and college bound were simply given the pleasant status of deferral.
| 703 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:26:02pm |
re: #696 Dark_Falcon
Defense in Depth. So Iraq will have an armored division and at least two mechanized infantry divisions, as well as other divisions intended more for positional pacification and defense. The anti-tank weapons are to eliminate urban positions that it would be cost-prohibitive to assault and to deal with the threat of Iranian armor.
perhaps.
| 704 |
ausador Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:26:51pm |
re: #652 albusteve
people refuse to understand the logistics…really it’s hopeless
You need to give Tom Clancy the thanks and credit for that truly “exotic idea”, since that is where you where you read it, right? He does make it all seem so simple, like that the uranium centrifuges would for some reason just explode if you cut off the power to them rather than just wind down…
I’m sure our military has never thought of that even though “Command, Control, Communications and Power” were the first things they knocked out in both Gulf wars. You need to stop underestimating the thinking ability of those you argue with, or stop overestimating yours, one of those anyway. :p
| 705 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:27:27pm |
re: #694 Varek Raith
So…my plans for building one in the basement are shot to hell?
:(
/
Dude so not funny. Especially in light of the news Ozbloke is bringing. I truly hope that turns out to be false.
| 706 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:27:56pm |
re: #702 Gus 802
You mean whoever was college bound or well connected too advantage of the deferments. Those that were either high school graduates or drop outs were left with no option other than to become draft dodgers.
So the impoverished were left with the stigma of being called draft dodgers while the well connected and college bound were simply given the pleasant status of deferral.
This is news to you some how, grasshopper?
| 707 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:27:57pm |
re: #705 LudwigVanQuixote
Dude so not funny. Especially in light of the news Ozbloke is bringing. I truly hope that turns out to be false.
Apologies. I deal with stuff like this with humor.
| 708 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:28:11pm |
re: #700 LudwigVanQuixote
My apologies, I did not want you to vomit :)
However, if the technology is now known to work, surely its just a matter of time.
| 709 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:28:36pm |
re: #689 The Shadow Do
Guess what folks. Just about everyone of my generation took advantage of the deferments when we could. Fact.
It was a bad war. Most of us knew it. Period.
There are no political points to be made. Bill Clinton would agree.
I agree. But Bill Clinton got plenty of shit over his avoiding Vietnam and then it mysteriously stopped being important in the next administration, which is, I think, why people are still kind of cranky.
| 710 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:28:43pm |
re: #699 SanFranciscoZionist
I see that, upon rereading. Sorry if I swiped at Ace over it.
Something of a sore spot with me, as is probably apparent.
You’re cool in my book, girlfriend. I’m always happy to explain why i make such incredible sense with such panache/
| 711 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:28:57pm |
re: #708 ozbloke
My apologies, I did not want you to vomit :)
However, if the technology is now known to work, surely its just a matter of time.
It’s all good my friend.
| 712 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:28:57pm |
re: #697 Aceofwhat?
my problem was comparing it to Burn After Reading, which my wife and i loved. MWSaG just wasn’t quite as…what’s the word…deadpan.
We haven’t seen Burn After Reading. You say it’s better than MWSaG?
Have you seen Black Sheep? Silliest bloody movie, but even my grandson laughed.
713 |
bagua Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:29:05pm |
One of the lessons of the Iraq war was that our efforts to contain the development of WMDs using tactics short of invasion were more successful than widely believed.
Interrupting the Iranian nuclear and missile program does not require an invasion or any sort of full scale war. The Navy and the Airforce would see combat, as would some specialised units.
A couple days and the Iranian nuclear and missile project is out of business, then a decade or so of an air policing, as was done in Iraq.
| 714 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:29:13pm |
| 715 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:29:22pm |
| 716 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:29:27pm |
re: #705 LudwigVanQuixote
Dude so not funny. Especially in light of the news Ozbloke is bringing. I truly hope that turns out to be false.
i laughed. does that make me a bad person?
| 717 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:29:41pm |
re: #709 SanFranciscoZionist
I agree. But Bill Clinton got plenty of shit over his avoiding Vietnam and then it mysteriously stopped being important in the next administration, which is, I think, why people are still kind of cranky.
I still see the “Clinton Draft Dodger” bumper stickers. On 2005+ model cars no less!
Sigh.
| 718 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:29:43pm |
re: #705 LudwigVanQuixote
Dude so not funny. Especially in light of the news Ozbloke is bringing. I truly hope that turns out to be false.
Well, if it is true, then further uses of nuclear weapons are unavoidable. And if that’s the case, I don’t suggest living in the center of a major city. In fact, Albusteve’s idea of living out in the country would be a wise precaution.
| 719 |
windsagio Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:30:52pm |
| 720 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:30:59pm |
Interesting:
What Doctors Don’t Know about Health Costs
Various parts of this:
1. Teach it in Medical School. Medical students are bombarded with an onslaught of medical coursework to master in a short period of time. A good doctor must learn to be clinically competent, articulate, and compassionate; but are they ever taught to be cost effective? This aspect of medical care is so low on the priority list of learning that it simply does not get taught in a meaningful way in medical education.…
4. Accept Reality. Healthcare is not free so we need to seriously consider how much money a life is worth. Every life is “priceless” in its own way, but do you want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on the last days of each life in the intensive care unit, knowing the outcome will be death? This should be a very public discussion, but we can’t seem to do it without invoking “death panels” and “pulling the plug on granny”.
The same must be discussed in screening guidelines. The recent USPTF recommendation to restrict mammogram screenings to women greater than 50 years old was met with a public uproar. However, these guidelines are the same as those used in Canada, where women are not dying any sooner from breast cancer than Americans.
…
I am often struck by the statement that patients really believe that “their doctor knows best.” In the realm of cost control, I really think that is a big assumption on the part of the patient.
| 721 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:31:17pm |
Damn oak pollen. I so have to napalm some trees tomorrow.
| 722 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:31:32pm |
re: #710 Aceofwhat?
You’re cool in my book, girlfriend. I’m always happy to explain why i make such incredible sense with such panache/
Yeah, yeah, we’ve noticed! :)
| 723 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:31:42pm |
re: #704 ausador
You need to give Tom Clancy the thanks and credit for that truly “exotic idea”, since that is where you where you read it, right? He does make it all seem so simple, like that the uranium centrifuges would for some reason just explode if you cut off the power to them rather than just wind down…
I’m sure our military has never thought of that even though “Command, Control, Communications and Power” were the first things they knocked out in both Gulf wars. You need to stop underestimating the thinking ability of those you argue with, or stop overestimating yours, one of those anyway. :p
I have not under estimated anything…you seem to have your wires crossed somewhere…we can stop bomb production if we want to…otherwise I really don’t get your post
| 724 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:31:56pm |
re: #712 b_sharp
We haven’t seen Burn After Reading. You say it’s better than MWSaG?
Have you seen Black Sheep? Silliest bloody movie, but even my grandson laughed.
I humbly submit that Burn After Reading is everything that MWSaG wanted to be.
And i’m dying to see Black Sheep - wife doesn’t want to, so i’m waiting to catch a friend or someone who hasn’t seen it either but wants to.
| 725 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:32:04pm |
re: #718 Dark_Falcon
Well, if it is true, then further uses of nuclear weapons are unavoidable. And if that’s the case, I don’t suggest living in the center of a major city. In fact, Albusteve’s idea of living out in the country would be a wise precaution.
well if you REALLY want to do your enemy you hit their food producing areas & let the population center be… nasty business.
| 726 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:32:20pm |
| 727 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:32:43pm |
re: #713 bagua
One of the lessons of the Iraq war was that our efforts to contain the development of WMDs using tactics short of invasion were more successful than widely believed.
Interrupting the Iranian nuclear and missile program does not require an invasion or any sort of full scale war. The Navy and the Airforce would see combat, as would some specialised units.
A couple days and the Iranian nuclear and missile project is out of business, then a decade or so of an air policing, as was done in Iraq.
The problem is that unlike Iraq, Iran does have subs, surface attack craft and anti-ship missile batteries they will use against our fleet. We’d win, but we’d most likely have a couple of our ships at the bottom of the Persian Gulf by the time we were done.
| 728 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:32:55pm |
re: #701 Stanley Sea
Lee fricken Greenwood!
He was given a 3-A. Hardship deferral for family reasons — children at the age of 17.
| 729 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:33:02pm |
re: #699 SanFranciscoZionist
I see that, upon rereading. Sorry if I swiped at Ace over it.
Something of a sore spot with me, as is probably apparent.
Heh.
I didn’t read your posts as a swipe, so much as - a sore spot!
We all have our moments.
Including, on the very rare occasion, meself.
You’re a good egg!
| 730 |
ausador Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:33:18pm |
So Iran having Nukes is exactly how much worse than Pakistan or North Korea having Nukes and why? (besides the “end of the world” media hype that is)
I’m honestly very confused here.
| 731 |
Jadespring Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:33:26pm |
re: #725 brookly red
well if you REALLY want to do your enemy you hit their food producing areas & let the population center be… nasty business.
Nah you just hit both.
| 732 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:33:52pm |
re: #723 albusteve
when I posted that it was hopeless to convince people of logistics, I meant they do not understand how easy it is to slow nuke production in Iran….messy, but relatively easy
| 733 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:33:56pm |
re: #725 brookly red
well if you REALLY want to do your enemy you hit their food producing areas & let the population center be… nasty business.
Given that I live in a food producing state with a major population center, I’m screwed coming and going.
| 734 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:33:58pm |
re: #727 Dark_Falcon
The problem is that unlike Iraq, Iran does have subs, surface attack craft and anti-ship missile batteries they will use against our fleet. We’d win, but we’d most likely have a couple of our ships at the bottom of the Persian Gulf by the time we were done.
No one is going to invade Iran. At least not in the foreseeable future.
| 735 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:34:48pm |
re: #648 windsagio
Which would be no different than the US, Germany, freakin’ Denmark, you name it.
Not saying they’re meaningless, I’m just saying the midevalist ‘Jerusalem is the center of the world’ shtick isn’t quite right.
You will be happy to know that Israel has never asked America to spill even one drop of American blood for it.
| 736 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:34:57pm |
re: #730 ausador
So Iran having Nukes is exactly how much worse than Pakistan or North Korea having Nukes and why? (besides the “end of the world” media hype that is)
I’m honestly very confused here.
Iran has crazies in high places, the Norks and Pakis only have assholes in high places.
| 737 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:35:13pm |
re: #730 ausador
So Iran having Nukes is exactly how much worse than Pakistan or North Korea having Nukes and why? (besides the “end of the world” media hype that is)
I’m honestly very confused here.
Iran has the ability to hold the worlds energy supply hostage. How’s that?
| 738 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:35:16pm |
re: #733 Dark_Falcon
Given that I live in a food producing state with a major population center, I’m screwed coming and going.
Where the hell is my orbital house!? And my flying car?!
| 739 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:35:18pm |
re: #725 brookly red
well if you REALLY want to do your enemy you hit their food producing areas & let the population center be… nasty business.
take down their refinery and blockade their ports…all without much danger to American lives…get tough
| 740 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:35:26pm |
re: #734 Gus 802
No one is going to invade Iran. At least not in the foreseeable future.
More’s the pity.
| 741 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:35:38pm |
re: #733 Dark_Falcon
Given that I live in a food producing state with a major population center, I’m screwed coming and going.
basically… try not to worry about it.
| 742 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:36:21pm |
re: #727 Dark_Falcon
The problem is that unlike Iraq, Iran does have subs, surface attack craft and anti-ship missile batteries they will use against our fleet. We’d win, but we’d most likely have a couple of our ships at the bottom of the Persian Gulf by the time we were done.
so be it…that’s part of the cost
| 743 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:36:41pm |
re: #739 albusteve
take down their refinery and blockade their ports…all without much danger to American lives…get tough
your talking Iran & I was talking cold war.
| 744 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:36:48pm |
re: #713 bagua
One of the lessons of the Iraq war was that our efforts to contain the development of WMDs using tactics short of invasion were more successful than widely believed.
Interrupting the Iranian nuclear and missile program does not require an invasion or any sort of full scale war. The Navy and the Airforce would see combat, as would some specialised units.
A couple days and the Iranian nuclear and missile project is out of business, then a decade or so of an air policing, as was done in Iraq.
I think we DID know how effective out tactics were. Very much so! There were other reasons for going into Iraq that wouldn’t have been so easily justified. Mainly to set ourselves down plop in the middle of the Arab world. I’m not totally against that, actually, but it’s not a legitimate reason to go to war. There had to be a threat, so we made one :(
If we could interrupt, as you say, the Iranian program, set it back maybe 10 years or more, maybe the Iranian people would have time to rise up and throw out their government. It’s a big dream, but it would be ideal.
| 745 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:37:05pm |
re: #739 albusteve
take down their refinery and blockade their ports…all without much danger to American lives…get tough
With Iran, blockade would carry a danger, at least until the Iranian missile batteries and subs were neutralized.
| 746 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:37:09pm |
re: #733 Dark_Falcon
Given that I live in a food producing state with a major population center, I’m screwed coming and going.
i recommend another glass of gin. at least take the edge off while awaiting impending doom…
| 747 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:37:11pm |
re: #736 Dark_Falcon
Iran has crazies in high places, the Norks and Pakis only have assholes in high places.
So there’s nothing at all crazy about Kim Jong Il?
| 748 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:37:34pm |
re: #729 reine.de.tout
Heh.
I didn’t read your posts as a swipe, so much as - a sore spot!
We all have our moments.
Including, on the very rare occasion, meself.You’re a good egg!
SFZ is close to da bomb…not a small thing imo
| 749 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:37:40pm |
re: #739 albusteve
take down their refinery and blockade their ports…all without much danger to American lives…get tough
What refinery? They’re know for not having any refining capacity other than 9 small operations.
| 750 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:37:55pm |
re: #746 Aceofwhat?
i recommend another glass of gin. at least take the edge off while awaiting impending doom…
As long as I get to, at least, see it coming.
| 751 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:38:03pm |
re: #737 The Shadow Do
Iran has the ability to hold the worlds energy supply hostage. How’s that?
again for a week maybe two…
| 752 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:38:04pm |
re: #749 Gus 802
What refinery? They’re
knowknown for not having any refining capacity other than 9 small operations.
| 753 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:38:38pm |
re: #734 Gus 802
No one is going to invade Iran. At least not in the foreseeable future.
agreed, there is no reason to
| 754 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:38:38pm |
re: #739 albusteve
take down their refinery and blockade their ports…all without much danger to American lives…get tough
I think blockade is a loser. It forces a choosing of sides and media sympathy for the Iranian populace which ratchets it all up to the point that we lose. Precision air. Hard and fast and have it over with.
| 755 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:38:51pm |
re: #724 Aceofwhat?
I humbly submit that Burn After Reading is everything that MWSaG wanted to be.
And i’m dying to see Black Sheep - wife doesn’t want to, so i’m waiting to catch a friend or someone who hasn’t seen it either but wants to.
I’m going to bow out, I haven’t had much sleep since the wife got back and tonight I’m going to sleep in my own bed rather than the couch. She says she’ll yell if she needs me. Women.
| 756 |
Bagua Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:39:18pm |
re: #727 Dark_Falcon
The problem is that unlike Iraq, Iran does have subs, surface attack craft and anti-ship missile batteries they will use against our fleet. We’d win, but we’d most likely have a couple of our ships at the bottom of the Persian Gulf by the time we were done.
The Iranians could get lucky, but most of their assets would be destroyed in the opening hours of any serious attack, which is why preemptive attack is the sensible choice, if not PC.
It would be in the Iranians best interest to absorb whatever surgical strike we announced, and avoid a serious blow to their military deterrent. It is unlikely they would do more than bluster at the UN.
| 757 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:39:41pm |
re: #738 Varek Raith
Where the hell is my orbital house!? And my flying car?!
out back with you unicorn…
| 758 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:39:45pm |
re: #746 Aceofwhat?
i recommend another glass of gin. at least take the edge off while awaiting impending doom…
Wouldn’t work. I don’t touch hard liquor.
| 759 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:40:24pm |
| 760 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:40:25pm |
| 761 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:41:09pm |
re: #737 The Shadow Do
Iran has the ability to hold the worlds energy supply hostage. How’s that?
I thought we get the bulk of our oil from Venezuela and Mexico. OPEC is about 1/3? Not that that isn’t a lot of oil.
| 762 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:41:12pm |
re: #745 Dark_Falcon
With Iran, blockade would carry a danger, at least until the Iranian missile batteries and subs were neutralized.
bing bang zip!…done, no problem
we are bad ass
| 763 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:41:23pm |
re: #756 Bagua
The Iranians could get lucky, but most of their assets would be destroyed in the opening hours of any serious attack, which is why preemptive attack is the sensible choice, if not PC.
It would be in the Iranians best interest to absorb whatever surgical strike we announced, and avoid a serious blow to their military deterrent. It is unlikely they would do more than bluster at the UN.
You’re assuming they would already have their subs and ships at sea. And they have enough targets that if we went after their ASM batteries, they’d have time to evacuate the nuclear facilities.
| 764 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:41:24pm |
re: #744 marjoriemoon
I think we DID know how effective out tactics were. Very much so! There were other reasons for going into Iraq that wouldn’t have been so easily justified. Mainly to set ourselves down plop in the middle of the Arab world. I’m not totally against that, actually, but it’s not a legitimate reason to go to war. There had to be a threat, so we made one :(
If we could interrupt, as you say, the Iranian program, set it back maybe 10 years or more, maybe the Iranian people would have time to rise up and throw out their government. It’s a big dream, but it would be ideal.
Whatever the ostensible short-term reasons for hitting Iraq, the strategic goal was clear and still makes sense - having a dandy forward base and staging ground for our interests in the region and beyond, essentially forever (we’re never leaving altogether, that much you can count on).
If we do have to strike in Iran, it will be possible largely because we’ll have everything in place, at close range, long before the order is passed down. No pesky asking for permission!
| 765 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:41:36pm |
re: #759 Varek Raith
THAT’S NOT THERE EITHER!!!
*Mumbles incoherently*
Oh, wait. McCain voters don’t get Unicorns….
DAMMIT!
XD
766 |
prairiefire Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:41:47pm |
re: #744 marjoriemoon
After we were attacked on 9/11, I had the mental image of a young child being pushed down, hard. The child gets up reaches over and shakes and shakes the thing that pushed it down. Very rough imagery, I know. But when something gets the attention of America by harming us, we are not going to just let it go.
I support the Afghan war. I can see the rough, shifting outline of what GWB tried to accomplish in Iraq.
We are not going to lift our hand off of trying to keep the threat down.
That means being over there, smack in the middle of the ME.
| 767 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:41:48pm |
re: #759 Varek Raith
THAT’S NOT THERE EITHER!!!
*Mumbles incoherently*
you did remember to make the payments on time?
| 768 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:41:56pm |
re: #761 marjoriemoon
I thought we get the bulk of our oil from Venezuela and Mexico. OPEC is about 1/3? Not that that isn’t a lot of oil.
Canada is our primary supplier.
| 769 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:42:04pm |
re: #760 SanFranciscoZionist
Aw, you guys are making me blush!
we can go back to talking about me if you’re embarrassed…
| 770 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:42:18pm |
re: #755 b_sharp
I’m going to bow out, I haven’t had much sleep since the wife got back and tonight I’m going to sleep in my own bed rather than the couch. She says she’ll yell if she needs me. Women.
Nite b. Hoped she liked dinner and she’s feeling well :)
| 771 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:42:23pm |
re: #758 Dark_Falcon
Wouldn’t work. I don’t touch hard liquor.
Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure-grain alcohol?
772 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:43:15pm |
| 773 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:43:57pm |
re: #754 The Shadow Do
I think blockade is a loser. It forces a choosing of sides and media sympathy for the Iranian populace which ratchets it all up to the point that we lose. Precision air. Hard and fast and have it over with.
just considering all options…we can turn Iran into a fucking major disaster zone, one way or another…the free Iranians have to be a major concern in any event…bless their hearts…these are tough choices, but the results are dictated by the US
| 774 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:44:21pm |
re: #768 Gus 802
Canada is our primary supplier.
Annex CANADA! (It’s almost 1:00 AM over here what do you expect?)
| 775 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:44:33pm |
re: #762 albusteve
bing bang zip!…done, no problem
we are bad ass
I disagree. They’ve got enough firepower to hurt us. We’d still win, but the losses we’d take would hurt badly from a PR standpoint. And they might encourage Iran to continue to resist.
| 776 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:44:39pm |
re: #772 Walter L. Newton
[Link: www.eia.doe.gov…]
Thanks. Yep, there it is Canada. Number one supplier.
| 777 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:45:00pm |
I see Olsonist is here.
Must suck to be you, dude. The world is so unideal.
| 778 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:45:06pm |
re: #774 jamesfirecat
Annex CANADA! (It’s almost 1:00 AM over here what do you expect?)
All we need is two canoes and a couple of shotguns!
//
| 779 |
b_sharp Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:45:17pm |
re: #770 marjoriemoon
Nite b. Hoped she liked dinner and she’s feeling well :)
Thanks MM.
She’s doing not too bad. She gets up and moves around as much as possible and she’s trying to get up out of her chair on her own today. She thinks I’m getting burned out so she ordered me upstairs with the promise she’ll yell when she needs help.
Anyway, ‘night all.
| 780 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:45:35pm |
re: #765 Varek Raith
Oh, wait. McCain voters don’t get Unicorns…
DAMMIT!
XD
And now you’re not even allowed to wear your ‘Maverick’ t-shirt.
| 781 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:45:47pm |
re: #777 Cato the Elder
I see Olsonist is here.
Must suck to be you, dude. The world is so unideal.
The world sucks.
Reality sucks.
:)
| 782 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:45:51pm |
re: #749 Gus 802
What refinery? They’re know for not having any refining capacity other than 9 small operations.
I thought Iran had one refinery for domestic gasoline…I very well could be wrong…the point is to shut down travel capacity, so that tankers are targets
| 783 |
Olsonist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:45:51pm |
re: #777 Cato the Elder
Nah, it’s just that you’re too stupid to realize how much China is owning us.
| 784 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:46:11pm |
re: #777 Cato the Elder
I see Olsonist is here.
Must suck to be you, dude. The world is so unideal.
What does that mean?
785 |
ryannon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:46:14pm |
re: #135 LudwigVanQuixote
To answer,
In the short term (weeks) there is going to be a lot of particulate matter in the atmosphere that will make life difficult on certain regions until it washes away and falls out of the atmosphere.
In the medium term (months) the cloud will block out sun and cause a small bit of cooling in certain regions. Likely not net cooling, but rather cooler than expected temperatures.
In the long term (centuries) the massive CO2 release will make a small in comparison to human activity, contribution to the overall warming trend.
It’s not over until the Fat Lady sings:
| 786 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:46:23pm |
re: #780 SanFranciscoZionist
And now you’re not even allowed to wear your ‘Maverick’ t-shirt.
Ah, crap!!!
| 787 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:46:33pm |
re: #761 marjoriemoon
I thought we get the bulk of our oil from Venezuela and Mexico. OPEC is about 1/3? Not that that isn’t a lot of oil.
It is a worldwide resource.
| 788 |
Macha Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:46:43pm |
re: #525 SanFranciscoZionist
I have to agree. Our prior “shoot em up” stance only bought us a war, which has been to our disadvantage in many ways, and a lot of ill will from our allies.Many Americans have watched too many John Wayne movies and have elevated the idea of fighting wars to some kind of glorious pedestal. It has been a long time since the reality of war has been in the streets of the USA. There are a lot of hawks out there that would turn tail in a heartbeat if bullets were flying in their own towns. These are the folks that would puke on their shoes if you had them spend eight hours in a busy ER. “OMG that is REAL blood!!”
| 789 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:47:04pm |
re: #777 Cato the Elder
I see Olsonist is here.
Must suck to be you, dude. The world is so unideal.
i just noticed that. do they always troll through hunting for your posts or is tonight a special occasion?
| 790 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:47:12pm |
re: #783 Olsonist
Nah, it’s just that you’re too stupid to realize how much China is owning us.
oh my…
| 791 |
Bagua Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:47:42pm |
re: #763 Dark_Falcon
You’re assuming they would already have their subs and ships at sea. And they have enough targets that if we went after their ASM batteries, they’d have time to evacuate the nuclear facilities.
No, I’m assuming the US Navy and Air Force could make short work of Iranian subs and ships, should they be perceived as a threat.
Also, the Bagua doctrine would not attempt to bomb their nuclear facilities with personnel inside. We can issue them an ultimatum, and give them time to evacuate all personnel.
I don’t see Iran going kamakazi, they would want to keep their regime and military intact.
| 792 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:47:58pm |
re: #771 jamesfirecat
Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure-grain alcohol?
Upding for the Dr. Strangelove reference. Very fun movie.
| 793 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:48:10pm |
re: #766 prairiefire
After we were attacked on 9/11, I had the mental image of a young child being pushed down, hard. The child gets up reaches over and shakes and shakes the thing that pushed it down. Very rough imagery, I know. But when something gets the attention of America by harming us, we are not going to just let it go.
I support the Afghan war. I can see the rough, shifting outline of what GWB tried to accomplish in Iraq.
We are not going to lift our hand off of trying to keep the threat down.
That means being over there, smack in the middle of the ME.
Going into the Afghanistan would have been the proper response to 9/11. I would have liked to have seen that get secured and then deal with Iraq.
But I agree with Cato. We’re there and we’re gonna stay. The proximity to Iran is a good thing.
| 794 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:48:37pm |
re: #788 Macha
I have to agree. Our prior “shoot em up” stance only bought us a war, which has been to our disadvantage in many ways, and a lot of ill will from our allies.Many Americans have watched too many John Wayne movies and have elevated the idea of fighting wars to some kind of glorious pedestal. It has been a long time since the reality of war has been in the streets of the USA. There are a lot of hawks out there that would turn tail in a heartbeat if bullets were flying in their own towns. These are the folks that would puke on their shoes if you had them spend eight hours in a busy ER. “OMG that is REAL blood!!”
SFZ…you see what i have to work with? Clay doesn’t mold itself…
| 795 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:48:47pm |
re: #768 Gus 802
Canada is our primary supplier.
And if Obama would stop dicking around about the oil sands, Canada could supply the US with much, much, more.
| 796 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:49:46pm |
re: #793 marjoriemoon
Going into the Afghanistan would have been the proper response to 9/11. I would have liked to have seen that get secured and then deal with Iraq.
But I agree with Cato. We’re there and we’re gonna stay. The proximity to Iran is a good thing.
well secure & Afghanistan are 2 words that don’t belong in the same sentence.
| 797 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:49:48pm |
re: #764 Cato the Elder
Whatever the ostensible short-term reasons for hitting Iraq, the strategic goal was clear and still makes sense - having a dandy forward base and staging ground for our interests in the region and beyond, essentially forever (we’re never leaving altogether, that much you can count on).
If we do have to strike in Iran, it will be possible largely because we’ll have everything in place, at close range, long before the order is passed down. No pesky asking for permission!
that’s a cold shot to the seclusionists and anti war folks…but it’s true that to prevent mass slaughter and run away renagade regimes we need ground, and we have it over there…hard facts
| 798 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:49:50pm |
re: #782 albusteve
I thought Iran had one refinery for domestic gasoline…I very well could be wrong…the point is to shut down travel capacity, so that tankers are targets
If we were to do anything I think I’d agree with Shadow Do’s #754. No reason to prolong it and complicate matters when a severe precision air strike on the target would suffice. That is after severe sanctions and a general embargo.
| 800 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:50:26pm |
re: #795 Spare O’Lake
And if Obama would stop dicking around about the oil sands, Canada could supply the US with much, much, more.
or we could just drill?
801 |
freetoken Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:51:16pm |
re: #795 Spare O’Lake
And if Obama would stop dicking around about the oil sands, Canada could supply the US with much, much, more.
Why do you believe that?
| 802 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:51:36pm |
re: #798 Gus 802
If we were to do anything I think I’d agree with Shadow Do’s #754. No reason to prolong it and complicate matters when a severe precision air strike on the target would suffice. That is after severe sanctions and a general embargo.
By target I mean the nuclear production facilities.
| 803 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:52:05pm |
re: #783 Olsonist
Nah, it’s just that you’re too stupid to realize how much China is owning us.
I am actually Chinese myself and personally own you.
| 804 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:52:46pm |
re: #775 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. They’ve got enough firepower to hurt us. We’d still win, but the losses we’d take would hurt badly from a PR standpoint. And they might encourage Iran to continue to resist.
we’ll just to wait and see…the US are masters at anti missile/anti radar take downs…and we still have precision stealth and high altitude capacity
| 805 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:52:54pm |
re: #796 brookly red
well secure & Afghanistan are 2 words that don’t belong in the same sentence.
Yea, aint that a fact.
I have to say, for the killing of the two Hussein brothers, the war may have been worth it for that alone. Uday was it? More psychopathic than his father if that’s possible.
| 806 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:52:54pm |
re: #803 Cato the Elder
I am actually Chinese myself and personally own you.
I’m confused. I thought you were…
| 807 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:53:03pm |
re: #796 brookly red
well secure & Afghanistan are 2 words that don’t belong in the same sentence.
Genghis Khan conquered quite a bit of territory, but what’s this it looks like there’s some territory that he didn’t ever conquer. Care to have a guess what that is?
Afghanistan?
Correct Jon! Also there was Alexander the Great, or “little Al” as they called him “Little Al the crying kid”.
| 808 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:53:09pm |
re: #795 Spare O’Lake
And if Obama would stop dicking around about the oil sands, Canada could supply the US with much, much, more.
/yeah, and if they don’t they could have an accident…
| 809 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:53:27pm |
| 810 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:53:43pm |
re: #777 Cato the Elder
I see Olsonist is here.
Must suck to be you, dude. The world is so unideal.
haha!….hoo boy
en fuego
| 811 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:53:50pm |
re: #788 Macha
I have to agree. Our prior “shoot em up” stance only bought us a war, which has been to our disadvantage in many ways, and a lot of ill will from our allies.Many Americans have watched too many John Wayne movies and have elevated the idea of fighting wars to some kind of glorious pedestal. It has been a long time since the reality of war has been in the streets of the USA. There are a lot of hawks out there that would turn tail in a heartbeat if bullets were flying in their own towns. These are the folks that would puke on their shoes if you had them spend eight hours in a busy ER. “OMG that is REAL blood!!”
Rarely have I seen so many clichés packed so tightly into so small a space.
“John Wayne movies”? Get a grip.
| 812 |
ausador Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:54:03pm |
re: #736 Dark_Falcon
Iran has crazies in high places, the Norks and Pakis only have assholes in high places.
So that means we have to go to war with them with…uhh…what? Merceneries we hire from Iraq or something? Where do we get the troops or the aircraft to start another war when the airforce is already complaining that we have overtaxed them and “worn out” their aircraft ten years ahead of their budget schedule?
Saddam was another crazy, supposedly, that somehow posed a great risk to us personally also…
Did you here that Karzai is drug addicted and mentally unstable? They started that rumour a week or so ago and are keeping it growing little by little too.
Easy, if you want to go to war against a country or depose their leader just add little “off the record” tidbits and commentary on the persons behaviour and call them “nuts.” The American public will eat it up like candy and wait for more…
| 813 |
Aceofwhat? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:54:51pm |
re: #811 Cato the Elder
Rarely have I seen so many clichés packed so tightly into so small a space.
“John Wayne movies”? Get a grip.
i see you have this well in hand. i must sleep. good night, friends-
| 814 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:55:12pm |
re: #803 Cato the Elder
I am actually Chinese myself and personally own you.
/yeah, so how about getting him his shots & cleaning up after him? sheesh.
| 815 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:55:47pm |
re: #795 Spare O’Lake
And if Obama would stop dicking around about the oil sands, Canada could supply the US with much, much, more.
oil sands : environment :: mountaintop removal : environment
But of course it’s Canada so fuck ‘em, right?
| 817 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:56:20pm |
re: #795 Spare O’Lake
And if Obama would stop dicking around about the oil sands, Canada could supply the US with much, much, more.
nope, the libs control the economy now…restriction is the name of the game
| 818 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:56:48pm |
re: #809 Aceofwhat?
wait…what movie?
Dr. Strangelove or How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Bomb.
| 819 |
Varek Raith Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:57:13pm |
re: #818 Dark_Falcon
Dr. Strangelove or How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Bomb.
Awesome sauce.
| 820 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:58:29pm |
re: #815 Cato the Elder
oil sands : environment :: mountaintop removal : environment
But of course it’s Canada so fuck ‘em, right?
Mountain Top Removal, or as Stephen Colbert calls it, the most awesome form of mining ever!
| 821 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:58:30pm |
re: #815 Cato the Elder
oil sands : environment :: mountaintop removal : environment
But of course it’s Canada so fuck ‘em, right?
no…the sand are there for the taking, replaced with water parks and casinos
| 822 |
Jadespring Sat, Apr 17, 2010 9:59:36pm |
re: #815 Cato the Elder
oil sands : environment :: mountaintop removal : environment
But of course it’s Canada so fuck ‘em, right?
What are you talking about? Getting oil out of the sands up here is one of the most environmentally sound oil extraction processes there is. It’s pretty green frolicing through meadows with bunnies and tweeting birds extraction.
///
| 823 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:00:23pm |
re: #820 jamesfirecat
Mountain Top Removal, or as Stephen Colbert calls it, the most awesome form of mining ever!
there are no mountain tops up there…mostly uninhabitable real estate perfect for exploitation
| 824 |
Jadespring Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:01:24pm |
re: #821 albusteve
no…the sand are there for the taking, replaced with water parks and casinos
And the sludgely toxic water that’s left is a bonus for profit because it coats the slides and makes them uber fast! It’s super sludge sliding!
| 825 |
Bagua Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:01:26pm |
re: #744 marjoriemoon
I think we DID know how effective out tactics were. Very much so! There were other reasons for going into Iraq that wouldn’t have been so easily justified. Mainly to set ourselves down plop in the middle of the Arab world. I’m not totally against that, actually, but it’s not a legitimate reason to go to war. There had to be a threat, so we made one :(
If we could interrupt, as you say, the Iranian program, set it back maybe 10 years or more, maybe the Iranian people would have time to rise up and throw out their government. It’s a big dream, but it would be ideal.
Yes, I agree the Iraq situation is different from Iran and Saddam was a significant evil in and of himself. In Iran’s case there is no need for a significant invasion. Let them carry on with their own affairs, we just insist they stop building nuclear and missile stuff, and wreck what they have now.
This could be done with minimal casualties. All with ultimatums and warnings like the Israelis do. We don’t have to punish them by destroying their refinery or embargoing petrol unless they refuse to cooperate, and even in that case, it is only necessary to damage the electricity plant used by the actual facility, not the whole country.
Followed by a decade of air oversight and the Iranians can sort out their own politics.
This one should be defused before it gets out of hand.
| 826 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:04:14pm |
re: #824 Jadespring
And the sludgely toxic water that’s left is a bonus for profit because it coats the slides and makes them uber fast! It’s super sludge sliding!
okay…you can walk then
you got a better idea?
| 828 |
Jadespring Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:04:53pm |
| 830 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:07:23pm |
I only post this because I love you guys….
the master, strumming
Youtube Video
| 831 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:09:39pm |
re: #825 Bagua
Yes, I agree the Iraq situation is different from Iran and Saddam was a significant evil in and of himself. In Iran’s case there is no need for a significant invasion. Let them carry on with their own affairs, we just insist they stop building nuclear and missile stuff, and wreck what they have now.
This could be done with minimal casualties. All with ultimatums and warnings like the Israelis do. We don’t have to punish them by destroying their refinery or embargoing petrol unless they refuse to cooperate, and even in that case, it is only necessary to damage the electricity plant used by the actual facility, not the whole country.
Followed by a decade of air oversight and the Iranians can sort out their own politics.
This one should be defused before it gets out of hand.
It almost sounds simple! I actually have more faith in the Israelis and only because they have more experience in modern warfare and they are much closer, of course.
| 832 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:09:44pm |
Oils sands. Never been a supporter of it. I think conventional oil recovery is better for the environment.
Athabasca Oil Sands
Land
Approximately 20% of Alberta’s oil sands are recoverable through open-pit mining, while 80% require in situ extraction technologies (largely because of their depth). Open pit mining destroys the boreal forest and muskeg. The Alberta government requires companies to restore the land to “equivalent land capability”. This means that the ability of the land to support various land uses after reclamation is similar to what existed, but that the individual land uses may not necessarily be identical. In some particular circumstances the government considers agricultural land to be equivalent to forest land. Oil sands companies have reclaimed mined land to use as pasture for wood bison instead of restoring it to the original boreal forest and muskeg. Syncrude asserts they have reclaimed 22% of their disturbed land.
A Pembina Institute report stated “To produce one cubic metre (m3) of synthetic crude oil (SCO) (upgraded bitumen) in a mining operation requires about 2–4.5 m3 of water (net figures). Approved oil sands mining operations are currently licensed to divert 359 million m3 from the Athabasca River, or more than twice the volume of water required to meet the annual municipal needs of the City of Calgary.” and went on to say “…the net water requirement to produce a cubic metre of oil with in situ (emphasis added) production may be as little as 0.2 m3, depending on how much is recycled”. Jeffrey Simpson of the Globe and Mail paraphrased this report, saying: “A cubic metre of oil, mined from the tar sands, needs two to 4.5 cubic metres of water.
| 833 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:12:17pm |
re: #801 freetoken
Why do you believe that?
The oil sands have proven recoverable oil reserves second only to Saudi Arabia.
Canada needs massive amounts of foreign capital to fully develop the oil sands. But for the Obama administartion’s policies, US capital would probably be flooding into Canada’s oil sands at several times the current rate. As a result of US policy, Canada has already started allowing China and others to invest billions with a view to developing other markets as an alternative to the increasingly problematic US market.
| 834 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:13:04pm |
re: #831 marjoriemoon
It almost sounds simple! I actually have more faith in the Israelis and only because they have more experience in modern warfare and they are much closer, of course.
well again we are in Iraq & Afghanistan… much closer.
| 835 |
Olsonist Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:16:12pm |
re: #833 Spare O’Lake
The US doesn’t really have a lot of capital. We have debt; we are now the largest debtor nation in the world. The Chinese on the other hand have capital; hence they can make investments.
But we could nuke Iran and feel good about ourselves.
| 836 |
brookly red Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:17:08pm |
re: #835 Olsonist
The US doesn’t really have a lot of capital. We have debt; we are now the largest debtor nation in the world. The Chinese on the other hand have capital; hence they can make investments.
But we could nuke Iran and feel good about ourselves.
/well for that matter we could nuke China… surprise!
| 837 |
Jadespring Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:18:03pm |
re: #832 Gus 802
Oils sands. Never been a supporter of it. I think conventional oil recovery is better for the environment.
Athabasca Oil Sands
Land
Well the bit of good news is that due to pressure from investors some of the major companies in the sands are saying they’re going to use better ecologically sound methods of extraction that are less destructive. BP had to deal with investor demands, gave and quelled some, just this past week and Shell, Exxon and ConcoPhillips are having to deal with demands in the coming months.
| 838 |
bratwurst Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:18:23pm |
| 839 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:18:37pm |
re: #791 Bagua
….I don’t see Iran going kamakazi, they would want to keep their regime and military intact.
I’m not convinced they wouldn’t go kamikazi as the concept of martyrdom is central to Shi’a Islam. They used it to convince young soldiers to act as human mine clearing devices during the Iran-Iraq War. You know, emotionally rev them up with talk of love of country & religion & glory, then have them bang their fists against their chests (reference to Day of Ashura) and march off into the mine fields.
re: #825 Bagua
This could be done with minimal casualties. All with ultimatums and warnings like the Israelis do. We don’t have to punish them by destroying their refinery or embargoing petrol unless they refuse to cooperate, and even in that case, it is only necessary to damage the electricity plant used by the actual facility, not the whole country.
Followed by a decade of air oversight and the Iranians can sort out their own politics.
While many Iranians despise the current regime, every Iranian I have ever met has a very strong sense of nationalism & cultural pride. If we made one mistake where a bunch of civilians were killed—or even if we didn’t make a mistake and civilians were purposely put in harm’s way—we would have a major problem on our hands.
| 840 |
Bagua Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:18:39pm |
re: #831 marjoriemoon
It almost sounds simple! I actually have more faith in the Israelis and only because they have more experience in modern warfare and they are much closer, of course.
Nope, it’s not at all simple if the Israelis are left with this task. That way is fraught with peril as the Israel will be within range of Iranian missiles. Israel would be faced with a grave danger and the possible escalation is impossible to predict. Also the chance of a wider war is likely.
For the US, yes, almost simple to just put down the nuclear and missile programs. And should the Iranians counter-attack, well within US ability to rapidly suppress.
| 841 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:19:06pm |
re: #815 Cato the Elder
oil sands : environment :: mountaintop removal : environment
But of course it’s Canada so fuck ‘em, right?
Canada is in the process of partnering with other nations, including the Chinese, to more fully develop the oilsands. Canada is committed to development of the oil sands with or without US investment.
| 842 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:23:16pm |
re: #837 Jadespring
Well the bit of good news is that due to pressure from investors some of the major companies in the sands are saying they’re going to use better ecologically sound methods of extraction that are less destructive. BP had to deal with investor demands, gave and quelled some, just this past week and Shell, Exxon and ConcoPhillips are having to deal with demands in the coming months.
Seems like an iffy investment. Given the coming policy changes regarding AGW what kind of return will they be looking at? The water issue remains unresolved. Tailings leakage into underground water aquifers. Are we willing to sacrifice the water supply for this? Right now it’s a low key operation compared to what we’ll be seeing especially after last weeks IPO and the infusion of Chinese capital to the tune of about 60 percent.
| 843 |
What, me worry? Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:23:50pm |
re: #840 Bagua
Nope, it’s not at all simple if the Israelis are left with this task. That way is fraught with peril as the Israel will be within range of Iranian missiles. Israel would be faced with a grave danger and the possible escalation is impossible to predict. Also the chance of a wider war is likely.
For the US, yes, almost simple to just put down the nuclear and missile programs. And should the Iranians counter-attack, well within US ability to rapidly suppress.
heh I know it’s not simple. Far from it. But if it worked out the way you laid it out, it would be the best way with least casualties.
| 844 |
Renaissance_Man Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:25:09pm |
re: #720 reine.de.tout
Interesting:
What Doctors Don’t Know about Health Costs
Various parts of this:
His points are very good ones.
#1 especially - medical students are taught very, very little about the realities of costing. Specifically, they’re taught very little about the blatant gouging that insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and the large, profit-based hospitals inflict on each other and on patients. Mitigating the effect of those costs on the patient is something that doctors have to figure out for themselves. Actually reducing those costs requires political will.
#4 is accurate, but not really anything that many doctors can do much about. Excessive testing and screening guidelines are out of the hands of the average practicing doctor, and much more to do with the policies set for them by the hospital/healthcare group they work for, if they are not in their own practice. And those policies are set with the fee-for-procedure in mind, which unfortunately only encourages over-medication.
#2 is less well aimed, particularly in the case of drugs. Doctors don’t want to slap patients with care that they can’t afford, and indeed struggle constantly to find ways to get the patient what he needs. In many cases, the prices set by pharmaceutical companies are usurious and evil. And in many other cases, patients demand unnecessary or more expensive drugs, because that’s what’s been marketed to them in the endless commercials. Pharma reform cannot come quickly enough.
| 846 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:26:47pm |
re: #832 Gus 802
Oils sands. Never been a supporter of it. I think conventional oil recovery is better for the environment.
Athabasca Oil Sands
Land
The oil sands are being developed, with or without American investment. Reserch and development is being done to ameliorate the environmental impacts. In a way it may be better for Canada to be less dependent on the American market, but it will be a shame for the US to forego this friendly and secure supply.
| 847 |
Gus Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:28:56pm |
re: #846 Spare O’Lake
The oil sands are being developed, with or without American investment. Reserch and development is being done to ameliorate the environmental impacts. In a way it may be better for Canada to be less dependent on the American market, but it will be a shame for the US to forego this friendly and secure supply.
The Americans are free to invest in the venture as they wish. The IPO was partially led by Morgan Stanley.
| 848 |
Bagua Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:29:26pm |
re: #839 CuriousLurker
Note that in the Iran/Iraq war, Iran was invaded, and by a rough equal in military capacity. Should the Iranian forces with the ability to attack US assets do so, they would be quickly neutralized, by aircraft they could not see or harm.
They would be essentially committing suicide. It would be the blind fighting those who can see.
For the US, a regrettable and potentially ugly task, but one well within ability. For Israel, an almost impossible task with conventional weapons in the current situation, and one that could lead to a major escalation.
| 849 |
ausador Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:30:41pm |
re: #831 marjoriemoon
It almost sounds simple! I actually have more faith in the Israelis and only because they have more experience in modern warfare and they are much closer, of course.
We have given the Israelis all of our intelligence, brought their best flyers over here to train, accelerated the delivery of two “wings” of aircraft and helped them emulate our “bunker buster bombs.” Admittedly that was under Bush, he was hoping they would attack and was willing to lend them “behind the scenes” support.
But then the Israelis read the press too…
Israeli stike against Iran would be disasterous
Global impact if Israel strikes Iran
Better for US to strike Iran than if Israel did
There are just as many if not more reasons for Israel to not attempt a “pre-emptive” attack against Iran as there are reasons why we should not do it.
The basic flaw in your reasoning seems to be that if we attack Iran we are somehow empowering the “progressives” who will eventually take over the government and spread happiness and rainbows instead of hate. Instead the reality is, as the recent riots and demonstrations prove the old guard are barely hanging on by the skin of their teeth, sure they put them down for now, but many are not happy with the theocracies rulers.
If we attack them we give them an enemy, we allow them to go back to the old “East vs. West” bullshit that the majority no longer actually believe. But they will again once we bomb the crap out of them…
| 850 |
Jadespring Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:30:46pm |
re: #841 Spare O’Lake
Canada is in the process of partnering with other nations, including the Chinese, to more fully develop the oilsands. Canada is committed to development of the oil sands with or without US investment.
I’m confused about what exactly you’re asking Obama and the US government to do here. There are many US national and transnational companies in the sands already. Or have I missed something where Obama is prohibiting private companies from investing or something? Or are you suggesting that Obama do what China is doing eg investing state money through state controlled companies? If Obama did what the Chinese are doing that would be the US government doing the socialism tango.
| 851 |
albusteve Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:33:15pm |
smash mouth blues
Derek and the Dominos
Youtube Video
| 852 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:38:38pm |
re: #841 Spare O’Lake
Canada is in the process of partnering with other nations, including the Chinese, to more fully develop the oilsands. Canada is committed to development of the oil sands with or without US investment.
Of course you’re right.
Another example of how America can’t run the world at its pleasure, and of why our “going green” magically overnight would not necessarily have any braking effect on AGW. Even if we no longer had a taste for petroleum starting tomorrow - a fantasy in itself - others would, and those with supplies would still sell it to them.
| 853 |
Jadespring Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:38:48pm |
re: #842 Gus 802
Seems like an iffy investment. Given the coming policy changes regarding AGW what kind of return will they be looking at? The water issue remains unresolved. Tailings leakage into underground water aquifers. Are we willing to sacrifice the water supply for this? Right now it’s a low key operation compared to what we’ll be seeing especially after last weeks IPO and the infusion of Chinese capital to the tune of about 60 percent.
I am in no way saying that any of this will solve any of those issues. It was more just trying to find some sort of silver lining. “Better” is relative term in this context. The basics facts are that the extraction process in the oil sands is extremely energy and resource intensive with water use the big one and it produces a hell of a lot of crap that has to be dealt with one way or another. And yeah I agree we haven’t seen the half of it yet.
I’m a realist though and know that regardless of all of that it’s going to be full steam ahead so anything that can be done to at least mitigate it some what such as through relatively ‘better’ systems of doing it is ‘good news’ relatively speaking.
| 854 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:39:24pm |
re: #850 Jadespring
I’m confused about what exactly you’re asking Obama and the US government to do here. There are many US national and transnational companies in the sands already. Or have I missed something where Obama is prohibiting private companies from investing or something? Or are you suggesting that Obama do what China is doing eg investing state money through state controlled companies? If Obama did what the Chinese are doing that would be the US government doing the socialism tango.
If the primary goal is to achive oil independence from unfriendly sources, then Canada is a logical choice. Obama could be stimulating private US investment by providing any number of fiscal, regulatory or treaty measures.
| 855 |
Cato the Elder Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:39:51pm |
re: #842 Gus 802
Seems like an iffy investment. Given the coming policy changes regarding AGW what kind of return will they be looking at? The water issue remains unresolved. Tailings leakage into underground water aquifers. Are we willing to sacrifice the water supply for this? Right now it’s a low key operation compared to what we’ll be seeing especially after last weeks IPO and the infusion of Chinese capital to the tune of about 60 percent.
Never stopped anyone before, did it?
| 856 |
ausador Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:46:26pm |
re: #854 Spare O’Lake
If the primary goal is to achive oil independence from unfriendly sources, then Canada is a logical choice. Obama could be stimulating private US investment by providing any number of fiscal, regulatory or treaty measures.
I say we should just quit screwing around and invade Canada, we can annex them as the 51st-54th states and be done with it. Come on, it isn’t like they have a real army or anything, hell they only have 25 million people and we already outflank them with Alaska!
Once we cut down all their timber and and pump all their oil out of the ground then we cut them lose again. Bye-bye-see-ya no federal benefits for you!
Bwahahahaha!
/
| 857 |
Jadespring Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:47:27pm |
re: #855 Cato the Elder
Never stopped anyone before, did it?
Nope.
It’s just plain denial that the bad will actually happening or an infection of ‘Star Trek Syndrome” which is the the belief that if the bad happens there will be some magical techno fix invented to solve the problem. I’ve actually been told that it will be really easy to clean out aquifers if it becomes necessary. How you ask? Dunno but I’ve been assured someone will figure it out.
I expect it will be really cheap too. :D
| 858 |
Bagua Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:54:48pm |
re: #832 Gus 802
It is good to hear that only 20% is accessible to open pit mining, that is such a dreadful thing to do to the land. This is another reason why drilling for more liquid oil is better in the short term, it would keep the cost of crude at levels which may leave the open pit tar sands unattractive.
| 859 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:54:53pm |
re: #848 Bagua
Note that in the Iran/Iraq war, Iran was invaded, and by a rough equal in military capacity. Should the Iranian forces with the ability to attack US assets do so, they would be quickly neutralized, by aircraft they could not see or harm.
They would be essentially committing suicide. It would be the blind fighting those who can see.
For the US, a regrettable and potentially ugly task, but one well within ability. For Israel, an almost impossible task with conventional weapons in the current situation, and one that could lead to a major escalation.
I understand the difference between us striking them and the Iraqi invasion, what I’m saying is that they would most likely see it as an invasion—not an invasion by a neighboring Muslim army (regardless of how much they hate them), but an invasion by a completely foreign and much larger & threatening foe.
This would really reinforce the whole Ashura thing as it’s all about a fight in which the odds are are greatly stacked against you. It could easily trigger profound religious passions, even amongst more secular Iranians. IOW, to you it might look like suicide and therefore be something to be avoided at all costs; to them it might look more like brave, noble martyrdom in the face of impossible odds.
It wouldn’t take the deaths of too many innocents to fire up Iranian hearts & minds. The regime knows this and they know it well.
| 860 |
Bagua Sat, Apr 17, 2010 11:11:11pm |
re: #859 CuriousLurker
I agree it is conceivable they would be very angry. But what can they actually do? Shoot down a few UAVs?
Of course the US should follow all diplomatic channels first, issue ultimatums and strong sanctions first. Just do whats necessary to shut down their progress. I think most Iranians would benefit from this as it would deescalate the chances of an all out war.
| 861 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Apr 17, 2010 11:21:37pm |
re: #860 Bagua
Of course the US should follow all diplomatic channels first, issue ultimatums and strong sanctions first. Just do whats necessary to shut down their progress. I think most Iranians would benefit from this as it would deescalate the chances of an all out war.
I guess I’m just worried that we don’t fully understand what we’re dealing with and that there may be unforeseen things that come back to bite us in the ass. I hope diplomacy & sanctions work and it doesn’t come to war. War sucks. I hate seeing people suffer.
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