Arizona Republicans Sponsor Birther Bill

PoliticsApril 2010 • Views: 3,233

Arizona Republicans are doing the hard work to make sure the Birther conspiracy theory is enshrined into law: Ariz. House OKs Birther Bill.

PHOENIX (AP) - The Arizona House on Monday voted for a provision that would require President Barack Obama to show his birth certificate if he hopes to be on the state’s ballot when he runs for re-election.

The House voted 31-22 to add the provision to a separate bill. The measure still faces a formal vote.

It would require U.S. presidential candidates who want to appear on the ballot in Arizona to submit documents proving they meet the constitutional requirements to be president.

Phoenix Democratic Rep. Kyrsten Sinema says the bill is one of several measures that are making Arizona “the laughing stock of the nation.”

Uh, he did show proof of citizenship — an official State of Hawaii Certification of Live Birth, which is the document provided by Hawaii to anyone who requests a copy of their birth certificate. And Hawaii officials also certified that his original birth certificate is on file with the state.

None of these facts matter, of course, to people in the grip of a conspiracy delusion, or to the politicians who cynically exploit them.

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149 comments

jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:37:27am

Huh.... I wonder what John McCain would have to say if asked of what he thinks of this bill....

Varek Raith Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:37:38am

Facepalm^Infinity^{^∞}

darthstar Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:39:32am

re: #1 jamesfirecat

Huh... I wonder what John McCain would have to say if asked of what he thinks of this bill...

Apparently, he thinks it's a-okay.

In an interview with Bill O’Reilly on Fox News on Monday, Mr. McCain said: "The state of Arizona is acting and doing what it feels it needs to do in light of the fact that the federal government is not fulfilling its fundamental responsibility — to secure our borders."

Henchman 25 Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:39:56am

Wwwwhhyyyyy?

webevintage Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:40:34am

What a bunch of nuts.

and this offends me as an American...

jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:42:06am

re: #3 darthstar

So the way to secure our borders is to send a strong message, illegal immigrants, we will not let you run for President in Arizona, without its mighty 10 electoral votes you have no chance of winning, NONE!

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:43:11am

blood of trees. blah. blah. this makes to tired to bother with capitalization. nirth!!!

cenotaphium Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:43:13am

A state that has voted Democrat once since 1960. Maybe if this comes to shove, Obama should let them keep him off the bill?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:43:19am

Don't they have something better to do than playing silly word games?

Mitt Romney recently said that the government needs to focus on the important stuff. (He was talking about the economy.) I think the Arizona state whatever needs to focus.

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:43:58am

re: #3 darthstar

What does Obama's birth certificate have to do with the Arizona-mexico border?

he is just sidestepping the issue as best as he can, neither supporting nor opposing it, as either could damage him.

As a former Arizonan, I think it would be just fine if the pass the bill, keep Obama out of the 2012 presidential election - and if Obama would go on to win re-election without Arizona's votes.

it would certainly make them look like a passel of blubbering idiots...

wrenchwench Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:44:21am

I think we need a Constitutional Amendment that allows for personal inspection of candidates' nirth certifikits by any American Citizen who so desires.

Varek Raith Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:45:45am

re: #11 wrenchwench

I think we need a Constitutional Amendment that allows for personal inspection of candidates' nirth certifikits by any American Citizen who so desires.

And then, after inspection, declare it a fake that must be proven otherwise.

Wozza Matter? Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:46:08am

small. white. southern. party.

wrenchwench Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:46:14am

The comments do nothing to alleviate the feeling that Arizonans have gone around the bend.

Nancy, I hope you can spread this information around as it deeply impacks our nation.

subsailor68 Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:46:37am

re: #3 darthstar

Hi darthstar! I think McCain was referring to a different bill, if his comment was about securing the border. If I understand correctly, the (silly) amendment was to Arizona Senate Bill 1024, which addressed - originally - campaign contributions and expenses:

Senate Bill 1024 (pdf)

Wozza Matter? Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:47:26am

re: #1 jamesfirecat

Huh... I wonder what John McCain would have to say if asked of what he thinks of this bill...

during the campaign he flat out told a lady Obama was American. He didn't equivocate - then, anyways.

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:48:25am

re: #13 wozzablog

small. white. southern. party.

Nope. South Western.

cenotaphium Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:48:39am

re: #16 wozzablog

during the campaign he flat out told a lady Obama was American. He didn't equivocate - then, anyways.

That was before he wasn't a maverick. ;)

jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:48:59am

re: #16 wozzablog

during the campaign he flat out told a lady Obama was American. He didn't equivocate - then, anyways.

Yeah I know, but McCain's sadly seems to have taken a hard right turn into Crazyville ever since the primary started to look like anything other than a blowout in his favor what with the "I'm not a Maverick" and all....

Hence why I'm interested in seeing what he has to say now....

darthstar Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:49:16am

re: #6 jamesfirecat

So the way to secure our borders is to send a strong message, illegal immigrants, we will not let you run for President in Arizona, without its mighty 10 electoral votes you have no chance of winning, NONE!

There's a serious amount of stupid in this country right now in response to Obama's election. As far as the GOP goes, the inmates are in charge of the asylum.

Wozza Matter? Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:50:14am

re: #17 Cannadian Club Akbar

It''s on the southern border, is it not?.....................

webevintage Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:50:17am

re: #9 EmmmieG

Don't they have something better to do than playing silly word games?

You would think.

Didn't Arizona have to sell the state house or something like that because they are so broke?
I don't understand states and cities and school districts that pass stupid laws/regulations that they know they will have to waste money defending only to be told in the end that the law/regulation/rule is unconstitutional.

darthstar Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:50:43am

re: #10 ralphieboy

What does Obama's birth certificate have to do with the Arizona-mexico border?

he is just sidestepping the issue as best as he can, neither supporting nor opposing it, as either could damage him.

As a former Arizonan, I think it would be just fine if the pass the bill, keep Obama out of the 2012 presidential election - and if Obama would go on to win re-election without Arizona's votes.

it would certainly make them look like a passel of blubbering idiots...

The blowback from Arizona voters would require an investment in popcorn if they managed to get Obama off the 2012 ballot.

lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:50:55am

Arizona is right on the border with Mexico. Along that border, an increasingly violent drug war merges with murder rates unheard of until recently and with an epidemic of kidnapping. The violence is spilling over into AZ, and AZ civilians and law officers are being killed.

AZ wishes that the president would defend the border.

But what does any of this have to do with whether Obama is a citizen? This is fantasy reasoning:

I wish Obama were not president. If he were not a citizen, he could not be president. Therefore, he is not a citizen.

AZ should make its case on the merits.

KingKenrod Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:51:36am

This continues the trend of using the law for partisan political purposes, which seems to be more and more common. For instance, the defunding of ACORN; or the Massachusetts legislature changing the Senate seat vacancy law to allow a Democrat appointment --- which resulted in HCR being passed, in case anyone has forgotten.

karmic_inquisitor Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:51:36am

OT : Syria has supplied SCUDs to Hezbollah.

[Link: www.google.com...]

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:52:28am

re: #21 wozzablog

It''s on the southern border, is it not?...

Yes. But not considered the South.

Stanghazi Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:52:56am

re: #24 lostlakehiker

Arizona is right on the border with Mexico. Along that border, an increasingly violent drug war merges with murder rates unheard of until recently and with an epidemic of kidnapping. The violence is spilling over into AZ, and AZ civilians and law officers are being killed.

AZ wishes that the president would defend the border.

But what does any of this have to do with whether Obama is a citizen? This is fantasy reasoning:

AZ should make its case on the merits.

The case was made with a goddamn election. Everyone just tosses that bit of democracy away.

Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:53:05am

They need to track down the original Hawaiin birth certificate. Better get McGarret and Danno on it!

Varek Raith Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:53:34am

Book 'em, Danno.

Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:53:48am

re: #17 Cannadian Club Akbar

Nope. South Western.

Agreed. Sorry I'm not participating much. I'm submitting a job application right now.

Lidane Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:54:36am

*sigh*

This shit got old a long, long time ago. Don't the people of Arizona have much bigger things to worry about, like the Mexican cartels spilling their war over to their side?

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:54:38am

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Sorry I'm not participating much. I'm submitting a job application right now.

Then WTF are you doing here!! Go get 'em!!!

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:55:05am

re: #24 lostlakehiker

No the logic is this: Obama is not a US citizen, the fact that he became president means there was an illegal coup d etat to seize power, and we citizens must arm ourselves and rise up against this usurper.

Scary shit, man

lawhawk Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:55:12am

re: #15 subsailor68

That's the wrong bill. The correct bill was AZ H2441. As I stated on the dead thread, the real mess isn't that they require proof of citizenship (birth certificate, COLB, etc.), but that the Secretary of State can prevent someone from going on the ballot for reasonable cause - which isn't defined and could cause a whole host of problems down the line.

jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:55:16am

re: #25 KingKenrod

This continues the trend of using the law for partisan political purposes, which seems to be more and more common. For instance, the defunding of ACORN; or the Massachusetts legislature changing the Senate seat vacancy law to allow a Democrat appointment --- which resulted in HCR being passed, in case anyone has forgotten.

Ummm... the changing of the Massachusetts legislature rules ended up hurting the democrats far more than they helped them. Normally when a senator dies in office/leaves for any other reason the governor gets to appoint whoever takes their place until there is a normal election.

The Democrats changed that rule in 2004 in Mass because they thought John Kerry was going to win the Presidency and didn't want to let at Mitt Romney (the Republican goernor of Mass at the time) appoint a Republican to Kerry's Seat.

Are you suggesting that having Scott Brown in the Senate HELPED rather then hindered the democrats when it came to passing healthcare?

Wozza Matter? Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:55:30am

re: #27 Cannadian Club Akbar

They are making - with this effort - every attempt to be classified as such - in political terms.

It's not a Perry sessesionist or Georgia legislature boondoggle, but it's pretty damn close.

SilentAlfa Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:55:57am

hawaii doesnt count as part of !REAL! america anyways

DaddyG Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:57:19am

Thank goodness my state isn't wasting time on unnecessary and silly legislation. ///

Wozza Matter? Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:57:19am

re: #38 SilentAlfa

neither do Cities with more than 5 starbucks or either coast.

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:57:35am

re: #37 wozzablog

I got ya.:)

Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:57:58am

re: #21 wozzablog

It''s on the southern border, is it not?...

Yes, but culturally and politically Arizona is a Western state, not a Southern one. It never had slavery and it has not been settled as long as the South. Arizona was actually the last of the 48 contiguous states to gain statehood in 1912.

Wozza Matter? Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:58:41am

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

see 37.

webevintage Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:00:01am

re: #39 DaddyG

Thank goodness my state isn't wasting time on unnecessary and silly legislation. ///

amazing.
and awesome in a "I have a chip in my vajaja" tinfoil!hat kind of way....

Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:00:59am

re: #44 webevintage

amazing.
and awesome in a "I have a chip in my vajaja" tinfoil!hat kind of way...

Eating snacks in bed again? :)

subsailor68 Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:01:14am

re: #35 lawhawk

That's the wrong bill. The correct bill was AZ H2441. As I stated on the dead thread, the real mess isn't that they require proof of citizenship (birth certificate, COLB, etc.), but that the Secretary of State can prevent someone from going on the ballot for reasonable cause - which isn't defined and could cause a whole host of problems down the line.

Hi lawhawk! I see the problem here I think. The article Charles linked included this:

"Republican Rep. Judy Burges amendment to Senate Bill 1024 today would require the Arizona secretary of state to verify a presidential candidate's birth certificate before the candidate's name is allowed on a ballot in Arizona.

The bill you linked to appears to be the house version of the same stupid proposal.

My point above was that McCain on O'Reilly appeared to be talking about border security, the bill that was passed back around the 10th, so wouldn't have been addressing this amendment if the border was the discussion.

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:01:15am

How often have we looked at other countries and thought, "Thank God that can't happen here?" It can, and it will. There is a very strong nativist, theocratic, and racist undercurrent in people. We see it in history, and there is nothing special about people who live in America to change that tendency. We almost always blame the people who 'aren't us' who don't look like us, who don't act like us, who seem somehow different. (note: racism, theocrats, and nativists aren't all three, they're separate if at times overlapping groups)

The Republican party has chosen to tap that nativist, theocratic, and racist undercurrent. We try to decry it as a few nuts, but I'm starting to think it might work. That the racists and nativists will take control of congress and the majority of America won't care or feel that somehow it's ok, either because they've wrapped it in religion, or in fear, or in patriotism.

Meanwhile, we shout about how it is immoral, it is wrong, and sometimes something isn't right no matter what the circumstances, only to find that really, most people don't care about right or wrong, so long as they feel safer, so long as they feel comfortable.

So many people worried about socialism, that it'll bring down America, and it very well might. But I worry more about the nativists, the racists, the theocrats either tearing America down because they can't get what they want, or getting into power and tearing the soul of America apart to ensure their brand of America reigns supreme.

I think we're in real trouble.

DaddyG Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:02:20am

re: #44 webevintage Yeah - she's a piece of work.

We've got serious taxation, revenue and budget issues (like all states do right now) and they're listening to testimony from someone who probably believes she gets radio beamed to her fillings from CIA headquarters in Langley. Sheeeesh!

Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:03:49am

re: #47 bloodstar

How often have we looked at other countries and thought, "Thank God that can't happen here?" It can, and it will. There is a very strong nativist, theocratic, and racist undercurrent in people. We see it in history, and there is nothing special about people who live in America to change that tendency. We almost always blame the people who 'aren't us' who don't look like us, who don't act like us, who seem somehow different. (note: racism, theocrats, and nativists aren't all three, they're separate if at times overlapping groups)

The Republican party has chosen to tap that nativist, theocratic, and racist undercurrent. We try to decry it as a few nuts, but I'm starting to think it might work. That the racists and nativists will take control of congress and the majority of America won't care or feel that somehow it's ok, either because they've wrapped it in religion, or in fear, or in patriotism.

Meanwhile, we shout about how it is immoral, it is wrong, and sometimes something isn't right no matter what the circumstances, only to find that really, most people don't care about right or wrong, so long as they feel safer, so long as they feel comfortable.

So many people worried about socialism, that it'll bring down America, and it very well might. But I worry more about the nativists, the racists, the theocrats either tearing America down because they can't get what they want, or getting into power and tearing the soul of America apart to ensure their brand of America reigns supreme.

I think we're in real trouble.

Quite Concur.

jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:04:07am

re: #48 DaddyG

Yeah - she's a piece of work.

We've got serious taxation, revenue and budget issues (like all states do right now) and they're listening to testimony from someone who probably believes she gets radio beamed to her fillings from CIA headquarters in Langley. Sheeesh!

The CIA lunch room menu for today is as follows.....

DaddyG Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:05:21am

re: #50 jamesfirecat

The CIA lunch room menu for today is as follows...

Ding for the Futurama reference!

Locker Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:06:35am

Guy at work just had some heart problems in the bathroom. We had to call 911, EMTs just got done taking him out of the bathroom on a gurney. He seemed like he was doing ok, he could talk etc but the thing that blew my mind was some of the females in our building, which is 6 stories.

There is a bathroom on every floor at the exact same location and there is a stairwell within 20 feet of the bathrooms. At least 15 women, separate and in small groups kept queuing up , trying to sqeeze through and in one case this lady actually tried to climb over the gurny which was blocking the female bathroom door. All this rather than climb up or down one floor and use the other bathroom.

Are women really that attached to their "regular stall". Unbelievable.

Wozza Matter? Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:06:55am

re: #51 DaddyG

12 lincolns to every napoleon.......

webevintage Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:07:43am

re: #52 Locker

All this rather than climb up or down one floor and use the other bathroom.

Are women really that attached to their "regular stall". Unbelievable.

No.
People are just lazy and rather stupid.

jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:08:05am

re: #52 Locker

Guy at work just had some heart problems in the bathroom. We had to call 911, EMTs just got done taking him out of the bathroom on a gurney. He seemed like he was doing ok, he could talk etc but the thing that blew my mind was some of the females in our building, which is 6 stories.

There is a bathroom on every floor at the exact same location and there is a stairwell within 20 feet of the bathrooms. At least 15 women, separate and in small groups kept queuing up , trying to sqeeze through and in one case this lady actually tried to climb over the gurny which was blocking the female bathroom door. All this rather than climb up or down one floor and use the other bathroom.

Are women really that attached to their "regular stall". Unbelievable.

Huh, and to think its typically the males who are so interested in marking their terratory....

Varek Raith Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:08:29am

re: #53 wozzablog

12 lincolns to every napoleon...

I was born in 200 log cabins.

lawhawk Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:08:39am

re: #46 subsailor68

Yes, the version you linked above didn't include the amended language, which can be found here. That language is identical to the language in S2441.

Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:09:23am

re: #48 DaddyG

Yeah - she's a piece of work.

We've got serious taxation, revenue and budget issues (like all states do right now) and they're listening to testimony from someone who probably believes she gets radio beamed to her fillings from CIA headquarters in Langley. Sheeesh!

What's the Frequency, Kenneth?

Youtube Video

Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:10:30am

BBIAB

cenotaphium Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:11:02am

re: #52 Locker

Guy at work just had some heart problems in the bathroom. We had to call 911, EMTs just got done taking him out of the bathroom on a gurney.

In the bathroom? Did he keep his.. dignity?

_{Seriously, passing out with my pants off is a serious phobia with me. Don't.. make too much of it.}

Lidane Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:11:03am

re: #47 bloodstar

I worry more about the nativists, the racists, the theocrats either tearing America down because they can't get what they want, or getting into power and tearing the soul of America apart to ensure their brand of America reigns supreme.

Yeah, this. Socialism doesn't scare me as much as a bunch of people who think that I'm somehow less of a human being because I'm Latina do. Or the ones who think that they can mandate their brand of religion for everyone else. That worries me. Socialism? Not so much.

I think we're in real trouble.

I hope not. I'd like to have a lot more faith in this country than that.

subsailor68 Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:11:10am

re: #57 lawhawk

Yes, the version you linked above didn't include the amended language, which can be found here. That language is identical to the language in S2441.

Yep, you're spot on. The one I linked was the version before the amendment - and your link adds in the Burges floor amendment.

Wozza Matter? Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:12:07am

re: #56 Varek Raith

how is work in the lunchroom frankie?

Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:13:30am

re: #60 cenotaphium

D:

In the bathroom? Did he keep his.. dignity?

_{Seriously, passing out with my pants off is a serious phobia with me. Don't.. make too much of it.}

When I was an EMT, one of my strangest calls was for a guy who was completely naked, unconscious on the street. He had no idea how he got there or what had led up to us responding.

Locker Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:13:47am

re: #60 cenotaphium

D:

In the bathroom? Did he keep his.. dignity?

_{Seriously, passing out with my pants off is a serious phobia with me. Don't.. make too much of it.}

Yea he started having trouble going through the door into the bathroom so he wasn't "compromised".

darthstar Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:14:13am

re: #52 Locker
Ugh...stupid, lazy people piss me off. I walked up on a guy having a heart attack on the street once. Was helping a couple of other people with him while we waited for the ambulance. Some lady walking down the sidewalk actually asked us to move out of her way. I shouted, "Hey, we've got a guy who could be dying here!"...that sent her across the street rather quickly.

jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:14:27am

re: #52 Locker

Guy at work just had some heart problems in the bathroom. We had to call 911, EMTs just got done taking him out of the bathroom on a gurney. He seemed like he was doing ok, he could talk etc but the thing that blew my mind was some of the females in our building, which is 6 stories.

There is a bathroom on every floor at the exact same location and there is a stairwell within 20 feet of the bathrooms. At least 15 women, separate and in small groups kept queuing up , trying to sqeeze through and in one case this lady actually tried to climb over the gurny which was blocking the female bathroom door. All this rather than climb up or down one floor and use the other bathroom.

Are women really that attached to their "regular stall". Unbelievable.

Huh, and to think its typically the males who are so interested in marking their terratory....

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:14:56am

re: #64 Mad Al-Jaffee

I've been meaning to thank you for that.

Aceofwhat? Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:15:26am

bbiab

Stanghazi Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:16:10am

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

What's the Frequency, Kenneth?

[Video]

"I couldn't understand!"

Love REM.

Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:17:16am

re: #66 darthstar

I once tried to assist a young woman on the Metro who was having some kind of problem - going semi-conscious, out of it, but since I had no way of taking her vitals or doing any more thorough assessment (I was on my way home from work, not on call) I told the Metro operator to call 911 and have an ambo sent. People were pissed off because they had to offload and wait a few minutes for the next train, but screw 'em. I did what I was trained to do.

Buck Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:18:23am

re: #1 jamesfirecat

Huh... I wonder what John McCain would have to say if asked of what he thinks of this bill...

McCain has been making fun of people who are birthers.

RECENTLY, he has been putting birthers in his advertising, and making fun of them.

I tell you this twice, and in two different ways because I want to be very clear. Again, McCains tea party opponent made birther noises, and McCain made fun of him.

McCain has not been at all unclear about how he feels about birthers.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:19:10am

re: #66 darthstar

Did you say it like Dustin Hoffman in "Midnight Cowboy"?

Buck Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:19:21am

re: #64 Mad Al-Jaffee

When I was an EMT, one of my strangest calls was for a guy who was completely naked, unconscious on the street. He had no idea how he got there or what had led up to us responding.

Did you follow up with the senators office to see if the memory came back?

/jk

Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:19:37am

re: #68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've been meaning to thank you for that.

Thanks for not suing me! The guy was an asshole. He threatened to sue me, my partners and the cop who was with us. Apaprently he didn't like the backboard and c-spine collar.

jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:20:20am

re: #72 Buck

McCain has been making fun of people who are birthers.

RECENTLY, he has been putting birthers in his advertising, and making fun of them.

I tell you this twice, and in two different ways because I want to be very clear. Again, McCains tea party opponent made birther noises, and McCain made fun of him.

McCain has not been at all unclear about how he feels about birthers.

Forgive me but when John McCain can say he never considered/called himself a Maverick I can't help but feel that I need to check in on him every so often to here where he stands on the issues today....

Macha Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:20:34am

re: #47 bloodstar

How often have we looked at other countries and thought, "Thank God that can't happen here?" It can, and it will. There is a very strong nativist, theocratic, and racist undercurrent in people. We see it in history, and there is nothing special about people who live in America to change that tendency. We almost always blame the people who 'aren't us' who don't look like us, who don't act like us, who seem somehow different. (note: racism, theocrats, and nativists aren't all three, they're separate if at times overlapping groups)

The Republican party has chosen to tap that nativist, theocratic, and racist undercurrent. We try to decry it as a few nuts, but I'm starting to think it might work. That the racists and nativists will take control of congress and the majority of America won't care or feel that somehow it's ok, either because they've wrapped it in religion, or in fear, or in patriotism.

Meanwhile, we shout about how it is immoral, it is wrong, and sometimes something isn't right no matter what the circumstances, only to find that really, most people don't care about right or wrong, so long as they feel safer, so long as they feel comfortable.

So many people worried about socialism, that it'll bring down America, and it very well might. But I worry more about the nativists, the racists, the theocrats either tearing America down because they can't get what they want, or getting into power and tearing the soul of America apart to ensure their brand of America reigns supreme.

I think we're in real trouble.

Bloodstar, I have to agree with you. Upding for this. I read this, this morning in the Wash. Post and see so many correlations between this and what has been happening with the tea partiers. Though the author is talking about religious violence, the level of fear and paranoia that underlies the extreme right that we have seen since BO was elected isn't far off the mark.

Macha Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:21:22am

Sorry, I didn't add the link.

[Link: newsweek.washingtonpost.com...]

darthstar Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:22:59am

re: #72 Buck

McCain has been making fun of people who are birthers.

RECENTLY, he has been putting birthers in his advertising, and making fun of them.

I tell you this twice, and in two different ways because I want to be very clear. Again, McCains tea party opponent made birther noises, and McCain made fun of him.

McCain has not been at all unclear about how he feels about birthers.

McCain's bucked in the head. He backed off on criticizing the birthers several weeks ago, when JD Hayworth started closing the gap on him.

Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:23:19am

re: #72 Buck

McCain has been making fun of people who are birthers.

RECENTLY, he has been putting birthers in his advertising, and making fun of them.

I tell you this twice, and in two different ways because I want to be very clear. Again, McCains tea party opponent made birther noises, and McCain made fun of him.

McCain has not been at all unclear about how he feels about birthers.

And yet, he selected the most vocal birther of all as his running-mate.

Too little, too late. The clownshit insane lunatic fringe was activated by Palin, with McCain standing by all the while, cheering and clapping.

Wozza Matter? Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:24:09am

i need to go be a jack at one of my assorted trades now.

if i ever master one of them i'd be dangerous.

Wozza Matter? Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:25:16am

re: #80 Fozzie Bear

The crazy unleashed at the Palin rallys when Mccain wasn't around to keep them respectful was pretty horrendous.

jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:25:47am

re: #80 Fozzie Bear

And yet, he selected the most vocal birther of all as his running-mate.

Too little, too late. The clownshit insane lunatic fringe was activated by Palin, with McCain standing by all the while, cheering and clapping.

McCain was running with Orly Taitz?

Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:29:52am

re: #83 jamesfirecat

McCain was running with Orly Taitz?

ROFL! Ok I stand corrected. Still, I don't think Taitz would have ever gotten any traction without the cover provided by McCain and Palin.

KingKenrod Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:30:14am

re: #36 jamesfirecat

Ummm... the changing of the Massachusetts legislature rules ended up hurting the democrats far more than they helped them. Normally when a senator dies in office/leaves for any other reason the governor gets to appoint whoever takes their place until there is a normal election.

The Democrats changed that rule in 2004 in Mass because they thought John Kerry was going to win the Presidency and didn't want to let at Mitt Romney (the Republican goernor of Mass at the time) appoint a Republican to Kerry's Seat.

Are you suggesting that having Scott Brown in the Senate HELPED rather then hindered the democrats when it came to passing healthcare?

HCR passed in the Senate in Dec 2009 with a Democrat appointed Senator, Paul Kirk, who was sworn in Sep 2009. That position would have been vacant under the old MA law, and the Dems would only have had 59 votes.

[Link: politics.nytimes.com...]

wrenchwench Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:32:12am

re: #47 bloodstar

I agree with most of what you say, but not your conclusion

I think we're in real trouble.

I reread your comment, and I think I found the point of divergence:

There is a very strong nativist, theocratic, and racist undercurrent in people. We see it in history, and there is nothing special about people who live in America to change that tendency.

I guess I really do believe there is something different about (enough) people in America to change that tendency, or at least keep it under control in a socially practical way. And the trend is in that favorable direction, as shown by the ages of bigots compared to the ages of tolerant people.

Buck Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:32:27am

re: #80 Fozzie Bear

And yet, he selected the most vocal birther of all as his running-mate.

Making shit up while accusing someone of making shit up makes you look bad, not him.

It is UNTRUE and completely made up to call Sarah Palin a birther. And certainly NOT the most vocal birther. If only because when he selected her, there were no birthers.

So your comment is a lie on many levels. Thank you for playing.

jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:33:35am

re: #85 KingKenrod

HCR passed in the Senate in Dec 2009 with a Democrat appointed Senator, Paul Kirk, who was sworn in Sep 2009. That position would have been vacant under the old MA law, and the Dems would only have had 59 votes.

[Link: politics.nytimes.com...]

Well then the question becomes, if you have only 99 senators and one vacant seat, do you round up or down for the 3/5ths needed for cloture?

Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:37:48am

re: #86 wrenchwench

I agree with most of what you say, but not your conclusion

I guess I really do believe there is something different about (enough) people in America to change that tendency, or at least keep it under control in a socially practical way. And the trend is in that favorable direction, as shown by the ages of bigots compared to the ages of tolerant people.

American exceptionalism will fuck us in the end. We are not immune to human nature just because we have a pretty flag.

Mark Pennington Wed, Apr 21, 2010 10:47:59am

The average American knows more about President Obama's early life than about the early lives of every other current federal officeholder combined.
At this point, I know more about Obama's early life than I remember about my own.

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:01:29am

re: #86 wrenchwench

I agree with most of what you say, but not your conclusion

I guess I really do believe there is something different about (enough) people in America to change that tendency, or at least keep it under control in a socially practical way. And the trend is in that favorable direction, as shown by the ages of bigots compared to the ages of tolerant people.

Thank you for the good points, and here's hoping, and I really really want to be wrong. I just see the groundswell that's happening around the country and worry that really, deep down, most of America isn't different, we just have a social code in place to keep it from getting out of hand. That's one of the biggest dangers from the Racism, Nativism, and Theocratic movements, they're aiming to change the social code and the very fabric that makes America what it is. Complacency, the idea that Evil wins when Good does nothing, is the real risk, that because America has won before, that we will win. (and i'm not trying to say that you aren't fighting, just that in general, quite a bit of America isn't and isn't aware of the danger.

wrenchwench Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:05:48am

re: #89 Fozzie Bear

American exceptionalism will fuck us in the end. We are not immune to human nature just because we have a pretty flag.

Not immune to human nature, no, but last time I checked, "human nature" had not been codified to the point that we are certain what it is. In this country, people from all over the world have come together and formed a society based on documents. We are not the only society formed that way, but we may be the most diverse one. If you don't believe we can be better than average, I don't see how you can believe things can get better. And believing things can get better is what gets me out of bed in the morning. "Better than average" is about as far as my "American exceptionalism" goes.

KingKenrod Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:09:45am

re: #88 jamesfirecat

Well then the question becomes, if you have only 99 senators and one vacant seat, do you round up or down for the 3/5ths needed for cloture?

I think they just do the math and compare against the threshold.

59/99 = .595959..., which is less than .60. So 59 votes with 99 members is not enough.

stevemcg Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:16:55am

Between this and the illegal immigrant law, if President Obama visits AZ, he can be apprehended and shipped off to Kenya!

Lidane Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:21:06am

re: #94 stevemcg

Your sarcasm tags are missing.

SteveMcG Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:22:08am

re: #95 Lidane

Your sarcasm tags are missing.

No sarcasm tags belong in that post.

Obdicut Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:23:30am

re: #96 SteveMcG

GAZE.

Lidane Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:23:58am

re: #96 SteveMcG

You can't possibly be serious.

GAZE

theheat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:25:39am

And all across Arizona, God-fearing Republicans cheered... Rampant fist pumping and Bic lighters.

Come to think of it, the Republican party is a lot like a Skynyrd concert. 'Cept more guns and bibles. And possibly lower IQs.

Never.Voting.Republican.Again.

100

SteveMcG Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:29:20am

What do you think? Under the new law, you only need the suspicion of illegality to apprehend. If that person cannont show proof of citizenship, off he goes. Now in the birther world, a certificate of live birth isn't legit. If some publicity crazed sheriff wanted to have himself a showdown, say the President came to AZ on a campaign or fundraising event, even if it's just an appearance at some factory. I can't see that turning out well.

101

SteveMcG Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:31:10am

re: #98 Lidane

You can't possibly be serious.

GAZE

So I am serious. And stop calling me possibly.

102

Obdicut Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:32:18am

re: #100 SteveMcG

Why did you phrase it in such an assholish way, then, if that's what you meant? Just for effect?

You're still totally wrong, of course. He can't be apprehended because the SS would not allow it, let alone the DA. Furthermore, according to the immigration bill that passed, a certificate of live birth is sufficient, as is a US passport.

103

Pacificlady Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:35:15am

First, I am not a birther. I believe President Obama was born in Hawaii. However, I always wonder why so many official documents on Obama are secret. We saw Bush's and Gore's grades, SATs, etc. I can't remember if Kerry released his, I think he did. Obama's college and law school transcripts are top secret. Just curious. I'll show him mine if he shows me his.

104

Mark Pennington Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:36:12am

re: #103 Pacificlady

First, I am not a birther. I believe President Obama was born in Hawaii. However, I always wonder why so many official documents on Obama are secret. We saw Bush's and Gore's grades, SATs, etc. I can't remember if Kerry released his, I think he did. Obama's college and law school transcripts are top secret. Just curious. I'll show him mine if he shows me his.

lolerz

105

Mark Pennington Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:37:10am

re: #102 Obdicut

Why did you phrase it in such an assholish way, then, if that's what you meant? Just for effect?

You're still totally wrong, of course. He can't be apprehended because the SS would not allow it, let alone the DA. Furthermore, according to the immigration bill that passed, a certificate of live birth is sufficient, as is a US passport.

I'm so confused. :(

106

SteveMcG Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:37:17am

re: #102 Obdicut

Geez, I didn't think it was that assholish.

In all seriousness, how much Secret Service does the President have. If some sheriff decided to surround a building, the Secret Service isn't necessarily going to shoot their way out. So you have a standoff. I'm just thinking that these wingnuts believe they have a higher calling than anything they read in the Constitution or the lawbooks. If that Drivers' license or passport were obtained fraudulently (as a birther would see it), you run the risk of a fiasco. Like that rep said in Charles' text above, AZ is going to be the laughing stock of the country.

107

jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:37:45am

re: #103 Pacificlady

First, I am not a birther. I believe President Obama was born in Hawaii. However, I always wonder why so many official documents on Obama are secret. We saw Bush's and Gore's grades, SATs, etc. I can't remember if Kerry released his, I think he did. Obama's college and law school transcripts are top secret. Just curious. I'll show him mine if he shows me his.

Is there a law that says he has to release his?

108

SteveMcG Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:38:33am

re: #103 Pacificlady

I don't think he wants to see yours.

109

garhighway Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:40:48am

re: #99 theheat

And all across Arizona, God-fearing Republicans cheered... Rampant fist pumping and Bic lighters.

Come to think of it, the Republican party is a lot like a Skynyrd concert. 'Cept more guns and bibles. And possibly lower IQs.

Never.Voting.Republican.Again.

Free Bird!

110

Mark Pennington Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:40:59am

re: #107 jamesfirecat

Is there a law that says he has to release his?

I'm so sick of the I'm not a birther but...

111

wrenchwench Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:41:39am

re: #100 SteveMcG

Under the new law, you only need the suspicion of illegality to apprehend.

It's not a new law.

Under Arizona law, Gov. Brewer has until Friday afternoon to decide whether she'll sign the law or veto it.

112

Obdicut Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:43:07am

re: #106 SteveMcG

In all seriousness, how much Secret Service does the President have. If some sheriff decided to surround a building, the Secret Service isn't necessarily going to shoot their way out.

They probably would, actually.

Youtube Video

I'm just thinking that these wingnuts believe they have a higher calling than anything they read in the Constitution or the lawbooks.

Sure. Then why even bother talking about the particular laws, and just allege that the Birthers are going to try to kidnap Obama? There is nothing in what you said that's accurate-- if he was challenged to prove he wasn't an illegal immigrant, he could do so, easily. If they declared the documents fraudulent, they couldn't simply arrest him, they'd have to make a case. That would involve impaneling a grand jury.

There's enough ways to mock the birthers without departing from reality into fever dreams, dude.

113

SteveMcG Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:49:07am

re: #111 wrenchwench

re: #112 Obdicut

After Governor Crist got castrated, waht are the odds the AZ governer won't sign?

re: #112 Obdicut

So far, the momentum of what I would call the anti government" crowd is growing. Obviously this is a strecth of the imagination, but I don't think you can say it's impossible at sometime in the near future.

114

wrenchwench Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:56:07am

re: #113 SteveMcG

re: #111 wrenchwench

re: #112 Obdicut

After Governor Crist got castrated, waht are the odds the AZ governer won't sign?

The governor of Arizona has no reason to fear castration. However, she is under a lot of pressure to sign the bill. Then there will be an injunction, then it will be found unconstitutional.

115

Obdicut Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:57:37am

re: #113 SteveMcG

Whatever, dude. You were talking about the present time, so suddenly saying that you're talking about the future is kind of lame.

Anti-government types might try to arrest Obama, or shoot him, or blow him up. This is not exactly news. But no, he's not going to be arrested by a sherrif and deported to Kenya under the new laws. That's just completely, deeply wrong.

116

steve-b Wed, Apr 21, 2010 12:11:00pm

In practice, this will simply be a bureaucratic barrier to ballot access. The two main parties have come up with a plethora of them to shut out competition; I suppose it was inevitable that they'd eventually try to turn the weapon on each other.

117

steve-b Wed, Apr 21, 2010 12:12:11pm

re: #1 jamesfirecat

Are you talking about the old McCain, or the new one (who fears the wingnuts more than he ever feared North Korean interrogators)?

118

steve-b Wed, Apr 21, 2010 12:13:13pm

re: #117 steve-b

Brain glitch: obviously should read "North Vietnamese"

119

CuriousLurker Wed, Apr 21, 2010 12:14:11pm

re: #112 Obdicut

HOLY CRAP!

120

HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 21, 2010 12:40:09pm

Don't the Republicans of the Arizona state senate have anything better to do with their time than engage in petty shenanigans? If I were an Arizonan I'd be pissed that they were wasting time on this.

121

tommylotto Wed, Apr 21, 2010 1:02:10pm

This bill is no big deal. All that it requires is that any candidate attach documentary proof of their eligibility. The only persons who would think this bill is directed at Obama would be those who hold a suspicion that he might not be eligible and are concerned that if put to the test he would fail. If you are so certain that Obama can document his eligibility, then why on God's green earth would you object to this innocuous bill?

The real question, of course, would be the level of documentation necessary to prove eligibility. Would Obama's COLB be sufficient proof, or would he be required to attach a copy of his original birth certificate that he has fought to keep secret and the State of Hawaii has kept under lock and key. It would be for the State Secretary of State to decide. Is Arizona's Secretary of State a birther? Obama would obviously have standing to challenge a decision that more than his COLB is required, but who would have standing to challenge a decision by the secretary of state if the COLB is ruled to be sufficient?

Frankly I'm shocked this has not always been the law. What? Are we just suppose to take a politician's word for it? Trust, but verify.

122

Lidane Wed, Apr 21, 2010 1:08:38pm

re: #121 tommylotto

Pfft. Save the passive agressive nirther bullshit for people with lower IQ's. Around here, that's all a bunch of weaksauce.

Also, GAZE.

123

Mark Pennington Wed, Apr 21, 2010 1:09:52pm

Closet birther alert! Damn, the crazy is everywhere.

124

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Apr 21, 2010 1:30:48pm

re: #40 wozzablog

neither do Cities with more than 5 starbucks or either coast.

I hope to someday visit Real America.

Well, no, not really. It sounds like a smug and boring place.

125

elektramourns Wed, Apr 21, 2010 1:32:29pm

The job of the GOP is to create so much chaos that it appears that the Dems cannot lead or govern, the underlying premise being that only the GOP can govern and that if we stir up enuff crap n' chaos, the people will intuitively vote Republican and we will end with Carl Rove's long-desired GOP majority.

126

tommylotto Wed, Apr 21, 2010 2:34:51pm

re: #122 Lidane

It's not passive aggression, it's called analysis. Try it some time. Have you read the bill? Do you know what it requires? Do you know where it is ambiguous? Do you know who makes the decisions? Can that decision be challenged? Do you know whether it would require Obama to do anything he hasn't already done? Didn't think so. Regurgitating put downs and talking point is so much easier than thinking... S.A.D.

127

Lidane Wed, Apr 21, 2010 2:37:51pm

re: #126 tommylotto

President Obama already did everything he ever had to do in order to prove his citizenship. The bill is nothing more than a bunch of nirther crap that has no business distracting the state government of Arizona.

Instead of giving that bill any credence or bothering to analyze it, I choose to dismiss it as more birther idiocy. Why? Because that's what it is.

128

ProdSlash Wed, Apr 21, 2010 3:18:03pm

I weep for my state. I really do.

129

tommylotto Wed, Apr 21, 2010 3:20:30pm

re: #127 Lidane

President Obama already did everything he ever had to do in order to prove his citizenship.

Actually, the requirement is "natural born" citizenship (as that term was meant when inserted into Article II of the Constitution), but let's not quibble about technicalities. Hey did you see the story about George Washington owing a New York library a $300,000 fine for failing to return a copy of de Vatel's Law of Nations? Anyway, if Obama has done everything necessary to prove he is eligible, why again are you oppose to this bill? Surely an opportunity to prove those birthers wrong once and for all cannot be your objection, is it?

130

ProdSlash Wed, Apr 21, 2010 3:30:06pm

re: #129 tommylotto

I think it's more to the point that it demonstrates a paranoia and willing ignorance on the part of Arizona elected officials.

131

Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 21, 2010 3:52:09pm

re: #129 tommylotto

Actually, the requirement is "natural born" citizenship (as that term was meant when inserted into Article II of the Constitution), but let's not quibble about technicalities. Hey did you see the story about George Washington owing a New York library a $300,000 fine for failing to return a copy of de Vatel's Law of Nations? Anyway, if Obama has done everything necessary to prove he is eligible, why again are you oppose to this bill? Surely an opportunity to prove those birthers wrong once and for all cannot be your objection, is it?

You're just "asking questions," right?

132

tommylotto Wed, Apr 21, 2010 3:53:55pm

re: #130 ProdSlash

How so? The bill merely asks for proof of eligibility. How does that demonstrate paranoia or willing ignorance? If Arnuld perjured himself on a declaration and claimed to have been born in the USA to get on the presidential ballot, would it be paranoia and ignorance to question the self-serving declaration of a politician? Do you have to be a racist nativist birther to question a politician's veracity concerning his eligibility for office? I do not get it.

133

Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 21, 2010 3:54:16pm

re: #129 tommylotto

Been "asking" these "questions" for quite a while at LGF, haven't you?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

134

tommylotto Wed, Apr 21, 2010 3:55:58pm

re: #131 Charles

You're just "asking questions," right?

I admit I have an inquiring mind...

135

keloyd Wed, Apr 21, 2010 4:17:54pm

I'm saying it right now - insult my tinfoil lined fedora all you like, but Obama's people's post-election silence on this is deliberate. It's a clever strategy to give center-right people another reason to turn their noses up at the Republican party. The more clowns like Inhofe or Fox News or Arizonans indulge this nonsense, the more fiscally conservative, socially libertarian center-right types (like me!) consider our options outside the GOP.

It would be fun to warm up the Wayback Machine and arrange for McCain to have been born in Hawaii and for Obama to have been born in Panama's Canal Zone, outside the US proper and before the court case that clarified this making one a natural born citizen, and only implying, not expressly stating retroactivity. All the usual suspects would be exactly as dubious of McCain's "certification of live birth*", right?

*my own alleged birth in Hawaii can only be proved by a similar piece of paper.

136

Lidane Wed, Apr 21, 2010 5:14:36pm

re: #135 keloyd

I'm saying it right now - insult my tinfoil lined fedora all you like, but Obama's people's post-election silence on this is deliberate.

Of course it is. He settled questions about his citizenship and birth a long time ago. Furthermore, if there were any legitimate questions about who he is and where he's from, they would have been found out when he went through his background checks to get his security clearances as a Senator.

It is literally impossible for the man to have hidden anything suspicious about his birth or his citizenship for this long, especially under the scrutiny of a presidential election. Period. Continuing to answer or dignify all these birther morons would just give credence to their idiocy and paranoia.

That Inhofe and these other birther idiots continue to bleat about it to the detriment of the GOP isn't a conspiracy. It's just a sign that some pols are *that* willing to pander to the ignorant yahoos who can't accept that the old white guy lost the election, and the young black guy with an African name won.

137

tommylotto Wed, Apr 21, 2010 6:17:51pm

re: #135 keloyd*my own alleged birth in Hawaii can only be proved by a similar piece of paper.

And if you look at the fine print on your COLB from Hawaii, it will say something to the effect that this document constitutes "prima facie evidence" of the facts set forth on this document. Prima facie evidence is not dispositive evidence. It merely creates a "rebuttable presumption." It by itself is sufficient evidence to carry the day, unless there is other more persuasive evidence that contradicts your alleged Hawaiian birth. For example, you may have a COLB saying you were born in Hawaii, and that would satisfy every inquiry you could imagine all your life. But then some day, someone could subpoena your original BC, find that it was a late BC issued long after your birth and based merely upon your mother's affidavit saying that you were born at home without any witnesses. Then that person might subpoena your parents' passport records and learn that your mother was not even in the country at the time. Your COLB would still be prima facie evidence, but then it would have been rebutted by better, more persuasive evidence.

I have not seen any such persuasive evidence calling into question your (or anyone else's) alleged Hawaiian birth, but then again, no one has been able to conduct discovery about your alleged Hawaiian birth, have they?

We should recognize that no vital record is ever dispositive and could always be rebutted by better, more persuasive evidence. You would agree with that right?

138

Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 21, 2010 8:02:37pm

re: #137 tommylotto

Seek professional help.

139

Pacificlady Wed, Apr 21, 2010 8:28:43pm

re: 107
Is there a law that says he has to release his?

No, just wondering why the secrecy.

140

Charles Johnson Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:06:31pm

re: #139 Pacificlady

There is no secrecy. His certification of live birth was released and verified by the state of Hawaii.

Twice.

Please. Just stop it.

141

Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:28:17pm

re: #137 tommylotto

re: #139 Pacificlady

Kus Emek!

142

Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:31:12pm

re: #140 Charles

There is no secrecy. His certification of live birth was released and verified by the state of Hawaii.

Twice.

Please. Just stop it.

Charles, these are true believers. A film of Obama coming out of his mother with hula dancers on either side, holding up the day's paper, followed by sworn statements of all the medical staff that helped deliver him would not suffice.

The idea of evidence meaning anything does not resonate with these folks.

143

BethesdaDog Wed, Apr 21, 2010 9:51:21pm

It's no delusion. People who really know geography know that Hawaii is really part of Kenya.

144

ClaudeMonet Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:24:38am

re: #103 Pacificlady

First, I am not a birther. I believe President Obama was born in Hawaii. However, I always wonder why so many official documents on Obama are secret. We saw Bush's and Gore's grades, SATs, etc. I can't remember if Kerry released his, I think he did. Obama's college and law school transcripts are top secret. Just curious. I'll show him mine if he shows me his.

Kerry's grades weren't released until AFTER his loss to President Bush. When they were released, we saw why--"Intelligent", "Deep Thinking" Kerry's grades were just as mediocre as those of "Mr. Chimp" Bush. Both used their Ivy League years as a delaying action on adulthood.

145

vinnievin Thu, Apr 22, 2010 6:24:24am

Sad that it seems relevant to make laws asking one to enforce laws already on the books. Yay lawyers.

146

Old Dragon Thu, Apr 22, 2010 9:35:19am

I wonder just how much total time and money the state of Hawaii has had to spend responding to these "just askin a question" folks. This whole damn thing has become the modern equivalent of Area 51 / Roswell. Just how many folks allegedly would have had to be kept quiet to pull off such an event, never mind the prescient timing of the newspaper announcements ? Reality time "birthers".

The more I see of some folks "thinking", the more I appreciate my dachshund.

Old Dragon

BTW, as a retired History instructor, I wonder how many "term papers" in USHistory classes will have this "question" as their thesis this year ?

147

steve-b Thu, Apr 22, 2010 10:57:09am

re: #121 tommylottoFrankly I'm shocked this has not always been the law.

I'm pretty sure that it is already the law that politicians have to provide routine proof of basic eligibility (which typically means citizenship and age; the records that cover those would also indicate the birthplace, and thus cover "natural-born" status).

Pandering to Birther idiocy gives local Secretaries of State the ability to selectively harass candidates by inventing ever-higher paperwork bars to jump over.

148

Pacificlady Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:31:57pm

Actually Charles, the secrecy I was referring to was his grades from college and law school. As I noted I am not a birther and believe he was born in Hawaii. I am just curious as why other information (which other presidents and presidential candidates provided during their campaigns, even President Bush) was not released by President Obama. Just curious. Boy, everyone here is stretched tighter than Pelosi's face.

149

tommylotto Sat, Apr 24, 2010 4:53:24pm

re: #147 steve-b

Pandering to Birther idiocy gives local Secretaries of State the ability to selectively harass candidates by inventing ever-higher paperwork bars to jump over.

So, if you do not like the Secretary of State being the person to determine if the proof is sufficient, who should it be? The politician himself? The folks over at the Annenberg Foundation? commenters at LGF? Who decides? Or should we just have an amorphously vague requirement with no enforcement mechanisms and no one with standing to challenge it?

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