Video: Roland Martin on Birthers: ‘They’re Stupid’

Wingnuts • Views: 6,131

CNN’s Anderson Cooper talks with former Rudy Giuliani speechwriter John Avlon and political analyst Roland Martin about the absurd Arizona Birther bill, and the sheer insanity of the Birther movement.

Martin says Birthers are stupid, which is blunt but accurate.

FLV Video

And if you’d like to see an object example of how widespread this idiotic conspiracy delusion is on the right wing, and how many wingnuts refuse to drop it long after the issue was settled beyond any doubt, check out the hundreds of comments in this Hot Air thread.

Jump to bottom

788 comments
1 simoom  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 10:54:26am

Reposted from the overnight thread, as it fits here much better,
Anderson Cooper hammering one of the Arizona lawmakers behind the bill:


Great interview.
2 AG in Houston  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 10:56:52am

Roland Martin is spot on.

3 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 10:57:50am

Imagine what Rowan and Martin could have done with this material...

4 steve-b  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 10:58:40am

Nitpick: The rank and file Birthers are stupid. Some of the more visible ones are cynical opportunists looking for personal or political gain by stirring the pudding.

5 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 10:58:47am

Why is it the ame nuts that demand President Obama provide them with a personalized origianl copy of his long form birth certificate are reluctant to answer the most basic demographic information on their constitutionally legal census form?

6 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 10:58:48am

Idiocy is like the Orks or Nids, if you miss a few spores the Emperor cursed Green skins will be back before you know it!

Meanwhile lies are like the Necrons, no amount of firepower can ever truly destroy them.

Incompetence is like Chaos ,ever present ever seeking to destroy us from within.

In the grim 21rst Century of Humanity there is no campaigning....

7 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 10:58:52am

re: #3 oaktree

Imagine what Rowan and Martin could have done with this material...

Maybe a "Laugh In" is what this country needs in response to the Tea Party.

8 KingKenrod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 10:59:20am

re: #1 simoom

Reposted from the overnight thread, as it fits here much better,
Anderson Cooper hammering one of the Arizona lawmakers behind the bill:

[Video]
Great interview.

Yeah, that's great stuff. I can't believe this pol agreed to appear on CNN, was Fox already booked up or something?

I'd like to see this level of aggressiveness from the press with other pols when they do stupid pol tricks, regardless of the issue.

9 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 10:59:37am

re: #4 steve-b

Nitpick: The rank and file Birthers are stupid. Some of the more visible ones are cynical opportunists looking for personal or political gain by stirring the pudding.


Pudding... that's a very nice way to put it but not the sticky brown substance that I was thinking they were stirring.

10 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:00:05am

It's such a phony, trivial, douchebag, rules-lawyer line of attack, anyway.

Even if there was some legal loophole that meant there was actual question about this-- and there is not, at all in any way, such a question, let me be clear-- it'd be the kind of bureaucratic rules bullshit that I loathe and detest when it fucks people over. The people championing this are the kind of assholes who delight in telling someone that they didn't fill out the right form.

Which is even stupider given that they're so very fucking dead wrong, but even the tactic of the attack makes me loathe them.

11 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:02:04am

For another object example of how widespread this idiotic conspiracy delusion is on the right wing, see the scintillating discussion on this Redstate thread.

12 steve-b  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:03:53am

re: #7 darthstar

Maybe a "Laugh In" is what this country needs in response to the Tea Party.

Well, we have The Daily Show and The Colbert Report....

13 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:04:31am

What the heck was that statue image they flashed up there a couple of minutes in?

14 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:04:41am

Here is the Georgia version of this insanity... I am "You Asked" on this blog BTW (at least most of the posts by "You Asked" are mine- the site is not password protected).

a-measure-to-force-obama-to-address-citizenship-in-2012...

15 steve-b  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:06:08am

re: #11 wrenchwench

For another object example of how widespread this idiotic conspiracy delusion is on the right wing, see the scintillating discussion on this Redstate thread.

As usual, the

16 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:06:09am

re: #4 steve-b

Nitpick: The rank and file Birthers are stupid. Some of the more visible ones are cynical opportunists looking for personal or political gain by stirring the pudding.

Absolutely 100% true.

I don't think the people pushing the birther message believe it for a second. That's what makes it so despicable. It's sophistry, pure and simple.

17 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:06:09am

LOL.

"The American people are smart."

18 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:06:32am

re: #13 Cato the Elder

What the heck was that statue image they flashed up there a couple of minutes in?

The statue Indonesia rose for him I think.

19 pharmmajor  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:06:44am

Birthers are stupid. In other news, water is wet.

20 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:06:57am

This comment at Hot Air made me laugh.
That’s right, give dems more ammo of GOP wackiness for their campaign ads. Arizona goes birther, Georgia bans chips being implanted in booties and bartering with chickens. Maybe next week one of our Senators will announce he is really an alien from another planet and announce it on CSPAN.

21 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:07:17am

re: #17 Cato the Elder

LOL.

"The American people are smart."

It's the meme that won't die despite any amount of evidence to the contrary. Sigh.

22 Barrett Brown  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:07:22am

Yo, Charles et al-

E-mailed you about this a bit earlier but figure you're swamped as usual; Donald Douglas has neglected to make a correction regarding his recent attack on me for allegedly not having addressed the presence of the RPG in the Wikileaks video when I in fact had done so two days prior, as I explained to him when he e-mailed me to taunt me. He promised to post a correction of his own after I reiterated my correction a second time in another article; after I did so, he neglected to post his own correction. Here's my first ZOMG VLOG:

23 Olsonist  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:07:51am

stupid %P%ˈst(y)oōpid%P%adjective ( -pider, -pidest)

• lacking intelligence or common sense
• dazed and unable to think clearly
• informal used to express exasperation or boredom

No, birthers are not stupid. They're lying; they're trying to delegitimize Obama; but they are not stupid. That is just letting them off too easy.

When Clinton was massively popular and successful the Republicans couldn't counter him on the issues and tried to delegitimize him with the successive un-scandals, Vince Foster, Whitewater, Lewinsky, ...

Birtherism is about delegitimizing Obama and Birthers may not be geniuses but they are not stupid.

24 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:08:39am

Double LOL.

"Conspiracy entrepreneurs."

Haven't heard that one before, but it describes half of Fox News to a "T". As in teabaggers.

25 steve-b  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:08:43am

re: #11 wrenchwench

For another object example of how widespread this idiotic conspiracy delusion is on the right wing, see the scintillating discussion on this Redstate thread.

Replacement for munged message #15:

As usual, the FReepers make the Redstaters look like the ones who took their meds....

26 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:08:51am

re: #23 Olsonist

stupid %P%ˈst(y)oōpid%P%adjective ( -pider, -pidest)

• lacking intelligence or common sense
• dazed and unable to think clearly
• informal used to express exasperation or boredom

No, birthers are not stupid. They're lying; they're trying to delegitimize Obama; but they are not stupid. That is just letting them off too easy.

When Clinton was massively popular and successful the Republicans couldn't counter him on the issues and tried to delegitimize him with the successive un-scandals, Vince Foster, Whitewater, Lewinsky, ...

Birtherism is about delegitimizing Obama and Birthers may not be geniuses but they are not stupid.

I think it's important to distinguish between the people who buy this (stupid), and the people who are selling it (cynical, but not stupid).

27 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:08:52am

re: #6 jamesfirecat

Idiocy is like the Orks or Nids, if you miss a few spores the Emperor cursed Green skins will be back before you know it!

Meanwhile lies are like the Necrons, no amount of firepower can ever truly destroy them.

Incompetence is like Chaos ,ever present ever seeking to destroy us from within.

In the grim 21st Century of Humanity there is no campaigning...

Only the endless clash of ideologies and the laughter of thirty pundits.

/I can do Warhammer 40K when I need to.

28 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:08:56am

re: #17 Cato the Elder

LOL.

"The American people are smart."

A person is smart, but people are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. ...

29 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:09:46am

re: #23 Olsonist

stupid %P%ˈst(y)oōpid%P%adjective ( -pider, -pidest)

• lacking intelligence or common sense
• dazed and unable to think clearly
• informal used to express exasperation or boredom

No, birthers are not stupid. They're lying; they're trying to delegitimize Obama; but they are not stupid. That is just letting them off too easy.

When Clinton was massively popular and successful the Republicans couldn't counter him on the issues and tried to delegitimize him with the successive un-scandals, Vince Foster, Whitewater, Lewinsky, ...

Birtherism is about delegitimizing Obama and Birthers may not be geniuses but they are not stupid.

Disagree. The leaders are not stupid; their followers most definitely are.

30 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:10:01am

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

Only the endless clash of ideologies and the laughter of thirty pundits.

/I can do Warhammer 40K when I need to.

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.

31 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:10:09am

re: #28 jamesfirecat

A person is smart, but people are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. ...

Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups. (my favorite T-shirt)

32 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:10:23am

re: #28 jamesfirecat

+1 for the MIB reference.

33 Stuart Leviton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:10:24am

One year ago Ari Shavit of Haaretz wrote a projection of what might happen in 2012:

"If Obama had decided…to impose a political-economic siege on Tehran, he would have changed the course of history [and]…prevented regional chaos, prevented a worldwide nuclear arms race and prevented an American decline.

Today policy analyst , Barry Rubin, wrote:

If you had told me a year ago that one year later Obama wouldn't have imposed any new sanctions on Iran and failed to get allies to do so, I wouldn't have believed it. Not doing enough, very likely. Not doing anything? Impossible.

Yet the foreign policy establishment is only just beginning to get horrified at this mismanagement.

//OT

34 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:10:31am

re: #13 Cato the Elder

What the heck was that statue image they flashed up there a couple of minutes in?

I'm guessing it's Obama as a child. Probably a statue in Hawaii somewhere.

35 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:11:40am

re: #29 Cato the Elder

Disagree. The leaders are not stupid; their followers most definitely are.

What do you mean? They're able to discern the true meaning of the Founding Fathers, even if it does happen to directly contradict the historic evidence.

/

36 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:12:20am

re: #29 Cato the Elder

Disagree. The leaders are not stupid; their followers most definitely are.


The leaders are stupid if they think persuing the line of "Obama as ferign'r" is going to garner them more support than derision in the next election cycle. The more they avoid issues and sell rumors the less credibility they have with the voters. I'm seeing some dissatisfaction with our more radical right GOP legislators in GA. They are making laughing stocks out of themselves and the state in general.

37 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:12:50am

re: #20 beekiller

This comment at Hot Air made me laugh.
That’s right, give dems more ammo of GOP wackiness for their campaign ads. Arizona goes birther, Georgia bans chips being implanted in booties and bartering with chickens. Maybe next week one of our Senators will announce he is really an alien from another planet and announce it on CSPAN.

Well, at least someone over there gets it.

38 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:13:32am

re: #36 DaddyG

The leaders are stupid if they think persuing the line of "Obama as ferign'r" is going to garner them more support than derision in the next election cycle. The more they avoid issues and sell rumors the less credibility they have with the voters. I'm seeing some dissatisfaction with our more radical right GOP legislators in GA. They are making laughing stocks out of themselves and the state in general.

I think you are underestimating two things:
1. How desperate these people are, politically.
2. How stupid the majority of Americans really, truly are.

39 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:14:11am

" ...now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

40 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:14:42am

This comment at Hot Air made me laugh.
That’s right, give dems more ammo of GOP wackiness for their campaign ads. Arizona goes birther, Georgia bans chips being implanted in booties and bartering with chickens. Maybe next week one of our Senators will announce he is really an alien from another planet and announce it on CSPAN.


re: #37 Dark_Falcon

Well, at least someone over there gets it.

He/she is posting at the wrong blog and should sign up here. ;)

41 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:14:56am

The whole point is to try and disrupt government and to suggest that the resulting chaos proves that Dems cannot govern. This theory has beena round for a while and it needs to soak in our heads if we are going to push back against the flying monkeys.

My thing is that I want to see Bachmann defeated in Minnesota by supporting Tarryl Clark. Anyone got the scoop on her? Bachman has 5 kids and some 22 foster children. No wonder she is a screaming insane bitch.

42 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:14:57am

re: #39 oaktree

" ...now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Luckily evil is also short.

43 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:15:08am

re: #38 Fozzie Bear

I think you are underestimating two things:
1. How desperate these people are, politically.
2. How stupid the majority of Americans really, truly are.


I am not immune to naivete. I hope the American people are more uninformed then they are truly stupid.

44 steve-b  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:15:10am

re: #20 beekiller

This comment at Hot Air made me laugh.
That’s right, give dems more ammo of GOP wackiness for their campaign ads. Arizona goes birther, Georgia bans chips being implanted in booties and bartering with chickens. Maybe next week one of our Senators will announce he is really an alien from another planet and announce it on CSPAN.

Yep. If birthers didn't exist, somebody on Obama's political team would have had to invent them (and would deserve a big bonus and probably a promotion for it).

45 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:15:13am

re: #39 oaktree

" ...now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

"Before you die, there is something you should know: I am your father's brother's cousin's nephew's former roommate."

46 simoom  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:15:44am

re: #11 wrenchwench

For another object example of how widespread this idiotic conspiracy delusion is on the right wing, see the scintillating discussion on this Redstate thread.

Yeah, part of Erickson's becoming a "respectable" CNN contributer seems to have been cleaning up Redstate's birther contingent.

Erick has always been kind of a cynical half-birther anyway. While he felt there was some reasonable doubt he doesn't feel the topic is a political winner, so it should be avoided:

[Link: wordpress.redstate.com...]

Now that it is making legitimate headlines, let me offer my very firm opinion on the matter.

(1) There is reasonable doubt on the issue.
...

[Link: www.redstate.com...]

The presumption will always be that Barack Obama is a citizen, whether or not birthers like it. That’s a fact, however much some may not like it. More troubling, there are those who can be presented with all the facts that are in evidence and still not be convinced. This would be the most elaborate conspiracy ever perpetrated and I don’t buy it.
...
But please, spare me any more on the birth certificate. What may have been legitimate was, once he was sworn in, rendered moot. And the fixation risks taking activists off the front lines of the fight for freedom down a rabbit hole of distraction.
47 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:16:02am

re: #22 Barrett Brown

nice. very reasoned.

on a less important note, was that a velvet sportcoat?

48 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:16:11am

re: #44 steve-b

Yep. If birthers didn't exist, somebody on Obama's political team would have had to invent them (and would deserve a big bonus and probably a promotion for it).


Rove... er... um... Rahm you magnificent bastard!

49 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:16:21am

re: #45 Guanxi88

"Before you die, there is something you should know: I am your father's brother's cousin's nephew's former roommate."

Which makes us?

50 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:16:28am

I think I got some dried chipotle pepper seasoning in my eye. damn it hurts.

51 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:16:54am

re: #50 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think I got some dried chipotle pepper seasoning in my eye. damn it hurts.

Rub a lemon in your eye. It'll help.

52 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:16:54am

I like Avalon's use, if not coinage [looks like Cass Sunstein might be the originator], of "conspiracy entrepreneurs", but Martin's bluntness is refreshing.

53 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:17:07am

re: #50 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Try eating with a different part of your face.

54 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:17:10am

re: #49 oaktree

Which makes us?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

55 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:17:10am

re: #49 oaktree

Which makes us?

Absolutely nothing, which is what you are about to become!

56 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:17:37am

re: #49 oaktree

Which makes us?

Absolutely nothing! Which is what you are about to become. Say goodbye to your two best friends, and I don't mean your pals on the Winnebago.

57 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:17:41am

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What do you mean? They're able to discern the true meaning of the Founding Fathers, even if it does happen to directly contradict the historic evidence.

/

like our dude the other day who wanted to argue about the Establishment Clause, despite our repeated posting of Jefferson and Madison quotes?

lolz...

58 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:17:44am

re: #22 Barrett Brown

Yo, Charles et al-

Heh. I'm an "et al"! Thanks for the shout out BB! /

59 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:18:29am

re: #46 simoom

Erick has always been kind of a cynical half-birther anyway.

He does the partial Nirth contortion?

60 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:18:52am

re: #54 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #55 jamesfirecat

Nice room we got today. Classic film fans, the lot of us.

61 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:19:00am

re: #57 Aceofwhat?

like our dude the other day who wanted to argue about the Establishment Clause, despite our repeated posting of Jefferson and Madison quotes?

lolz...

Pff, Jefferson and Madison? What the hell do they know? I've never seen them with an American flag lapel pin or a "I support the troops" sticker on the back of their SUV.

62 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:19:18am

re: #50 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think I got some dried chipotle pepper seasoning in my eye. damn it hurts.

Do not try to imitate Bobby Flay at home. He is a professional under the supervision of cooking safety experts. /

63 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:19:32am

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What do you mean? They're able to discern the true meaning of the Founding Fathers, even if it does happen to directly contradict the historic evidence.

/

OK, they're stupid AND psychic.

64 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:20:32am

re: #63 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, they're stupid AND psychic.

That's a very dangerous combination.

65 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:20:33am

re: #56 Guanxi88

Absolutely nothing! Which is what you are about to become. Say goodbye to your two best friends, and I don't mean your pals on the Winnebago.

Don't be a ball buster. ;D

66 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:20:40am

heh AP coddling / cocooning / excusing teh crazee in this last para:

What I will say in the Birthers’ semi-defense is that I think there are actually two camps inside the movement. One is the group that simply wants Obama out of office as soon as possible and has latched onto this thin, exceedingly lame reed as a way of making it happen. The other is a group that’s grown curious about the fact that … no official enforcement mechanism for the Constitution’s natural-born requirement seems to exist, even though it’s a baseline requisite for the presidency. To them, it’s not an Obama issue so much as a “shouldn’t someone somewhere be authorized to check this sort of thing?” thing. In which case, there’s an easy way to depoliticize this while creating a legislative fix: Simply have Congress pass enforcement guidelines and provide that they don’t take effect until 2016. That way The One is exempt and this problem doesn’t recur in the future. Easy peasy.

67 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:20:50am

Had to flush out my eye. Its really red, still tearing up a lot, damn that hurt.

68 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:20:50am

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What do you mean? They're able to discern the true meaning of the Founding Fathers, even if it does happen to directly contradict the historic evidence.

/

A segment of them has had the scrap in 1861-1865 to practice with before getting to this area.

69 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:20:58am

re: #60 Guanxi88

re: #55 jamesfirecat

Nice room we got today. Classic film fans, the lot of us.

Yeah ironically we all went for the same quote, but clearly each of us took longer than the last to post because we included more of it...

70 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:21:30am

re: #63 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, they're stupid AND psychic.


Most people on the internet have the ability to mind read others. But only the most very special bloggers can do it throughout the time space continuum.

71 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:21:54am

Even AllahPundit goes birther...

… no official enforcement mechanism for the Constitution’s natural-born requirement seems to exist, even though it’s a baseline requisite for the presidency. To them, it’s not an Obama issue so much as a “shouldn’t someone somewhere be authorized to check this sort of thing?” thing. In which case, there’s an easy way to depoliticize this while creating a legislative fix: Simply have Congress pass enforcement guidelines and provide that they don’t take effect until 2016. That way The One is exempt and this problem doesn’t recur in the future. Easy peasy.


Idiot.

72 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:22:25am

re: #71 Killgore Trout

:) mindreader

73 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:22:40am

re: #66 Thanos

heh AP coddling / cocooning / excusing teh crazee in this last para:

Yeah, I noticed that too. Looks like Birtherism is gaining steam again.

74 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:23:06am

re: #71 Killgore Trout

That's essentially a concern troll response. Pretend the issue is there and provide a "solution" for it that essentially assumes the issue is true.

75 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:23:26am

re: #73 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I noticed that too. Looks like Birtherism is gaining steam again.

Looks like AP knows Salem signs his check...

76 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:23:30am

re: #67 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Had to flush out my eye. Its really red, still tearing up a lot, damn that hurt.

You should only try to catch grapes in your mouth.

77 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:24:06am

"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter."
Winston Churchill

78 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:24:15am

re: #73 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I noticed that too. Looks like Birtherism is gaining steam again.

Its the last minute statutes State legislators are trying to cram in during their legislative sessions. A dying gasp on the part of some small fries who want exposure if you ask me.

79 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:24:19am

re: #73 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I noticed that too. Looks like Birtherism is gaining steam again.

Wow, it looks like you're right.

80 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:24:22am

Birthers are not stupid, they're just all mavericky and shit.

81 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:24:32am

re: #70 DaddyG

Most people on the internet have the ability to mind read others. But only the most very special bloggers can do it throughout the time space continuum.

I knew you were going to say that.

82 steve-b  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:25:14am

The Constitution didn't really say much about how any of the requirements of the Constitution are to be enforced (e.g. judicial review was a doctrine set forth in Marbury v. Madison, not something spelled out in the Constitution). As a practical matter, the enforcement of the requirements would fall on the electors, who can (and sometimes do) decide to go against their state's instructions.

83 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:25:32am

I got called out on this board for generalizing and thinking that the Tea Baggers were "all white, mostly old, racist, angry, mis-informed, etc." But, after watching this video of the Tax Day Protest, I can now state, unequivocally, that I know that they are all white, mostly old, racist, angry, mis-informed, etc.

I just thought I needed to clarify my position.

"Obama is planning to ban fishing!"

84 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:26:29am

re: #76 bosforus

You should only try to catch grapes in your mouth.

Had a seasoning cube I crumbled up and added to some noodles I was having for lunch. Some of the dust stuck to my fingers and ended up in my eye.

85 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:26:45am

re: #81 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I knew you were going to say that.

Get out of my head!

86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:26:48am

Imagine a world where birthers and nirthers and troofers were completely ignored.

Imagine a United Sates where the Republican Party and Conservatives focused on true issues, and stood their ground based in fact.

.
.
.
Naaaah.

87 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:26:50am

So what do birthers think Obama's been doing his whole life when he's provided his ssn for tax forms, jobs, things like that? Do they think he doesn't know he's using a "fake" ssn?

88 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:26:57am

re: #77 rwdflynavy

"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter."
Winston Churchill

I'd pay money for the video tape of Sam Clemons (Mark Twain) and Winston Churchill having an informal dinner together. The discussion and wit would be priceless.

From a biography I saw that Theodore Roosevelt and Churchill met at least once, but that Roosevelt disliked Churchill and thought he was an unprincipled glory seeker and opportunist. (Which was essentially accurate of Churchill in the early 1900s, if not later.)

89 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:26:59am

re: #66 Thanos

heh AP coddling / cocooning / excusing teh crazee in this last para:

He's a fool. He should be booting the nuts, not coddling them.

90 soap_man  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:27:55am

re: #87 bosforus

So what do birthers think Obama's been doing his whole life when he's provided his ssn for tax forms, jobs, things like that? Do they think he doesn't know he's using a "fake" ssn?

They don't think. That's the point.

91 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:28:01am

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

He's a fool. He should be booting the nuts, not coddling them.

I dunno:

If you can't beat 'em, exploit 'em. Then beat 'em.

There are worse ways to go.

92 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:28:05am

re: #87 bosforus

So what do birthers think Obama's been doing his whole life when he's provided his ssn for tax forms, jobs, things like that? Do they think he doesn't know he's using a "fake" ssn?

He's been using Malcolm X's!

93 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:28:28am

re: #67 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Had to flush out my eye. Its really red, still tearing up a lot, damn that hurt.

Many years ago I dropped in at a friend's house, and he and his live-in girlfriend were sitting around looking very uncomfortable, with clothes in disarray.

They'd been cooking, and apparently making something spicy and curry-like, and had given each other the eye while doing so, and, well, retired to the bedroom to consummate that look. Unfortunately, they had neglected to wash their hands before doing so.

Mere moments later, they apparently came flying out of the room howling, and one leapt buttocks first into the sink and started the cold water running. The other, with better knowledge of chemistry, had ripped the fridge open and started slathering yogurt by the handful on their nether regions.

Five minutes later I walked in.

94 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:28:32am

re: #92 Mad Al-Jaffee

He's been using Malcolm X's!

Using his daddy's SSN? Sneaky.

95 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:28:35am

re: #92 Mad Al-Jaffee

He's been using Malcolm X's!

Obviously.
ha!

96 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:29:16am

re: #87 bosforus

So what do birthers think Obama's been doing his whole life when he's provided his ssn for tax forms, jobs, things like that? Do they think he doesn't know he's using a "fake" ssn?

I think planting the birth announcement in 1961 was freaking brilliant - especially for the single mother of a bi-racial baby to have the confidence to set him up as a Manchurian candidate so far in advance. You really have to admire her pluck. /

97 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:29:29am

re: #90 soap_man

They don't think. That's the point.

Quite Concur.

98 Olsonist  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:29:53am

re: #26 Fozzie Bear

Nope. The Birthers (all of them) have managed to keep this un-issue alive for more than two years, and in doing so, they've cowed mainstream Republican politicians into acquiescence if not outright agreement.

Calling Birthers stupid is sort of what they want. The Tea Baggers want the same thing, which is not surprising since they're more or less the same people. So I don't think just calling them stupid is the best way to combat them.

Follow the money (Scaife?). Confront the mainstream Republicans (Gingrich?). Force them to vote (AZ?). Flush them out. But don't just call them stupid. Get it on paper. In San Jose, CA, Tom Campbell got nuked for his impeachment non-sense. That worked.

Get these nuts on the record.

99 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:30:46am

The birthers are stupid and/or racist.
Roland Martin is also stupid and/or racist.

100 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:31:01am

re: #93 Renaissance_Man

Five minutes later I walked in.

...anyway that is my story officer and I'm sticking to it.

101 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:31:28am

re: #93 Renaissance_Man

Many years ago I dropped in at a friend's house, and he and his live-in girlfriend were sitting around looking very uncomfortable, with clothes in disarray.

They'd been cooking, and apparently making something spicy and curry-like, and had given each other the eye while doing so, and, well, retired to the bedroom to consummate that look. Unfortunately, they had neglected to wash their hands before doing so.

Mere moments later, they apparently came flying out of the room howling, and one leapt buttocks first into the sink and started the cold water running. The other, with better knowledge of chemistry, had ripped the fridge open and started slathering yogurt by the handful on their nether regions.

Five minutes later I walked in.

Tingling, naturally warming massage oil: not a lubricant.

Learned that the hard way once.

102 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:31:31am

re: #83 Sigma_x

I got called out on this board for generalizing and thinking that the Tea Baggers were "all white, mostly old, racist, angry, mis-informed, etc." But, after watching this video of the Tax Day Protest, I can now state, unequivocally, that I know that they are all white, mostly old, racist, angry, mis-informed, etc.

I just thought I needed to clarify my position.

"Obama is planning to ban fishing!"


[Video]

do you know how that story evolved?

103 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:31:43am

re: #96 DaddyG

I think planting the birth announcement in 1961 was freaking brilliant - especially for the single mother of a bi-racial baby to have the confidence to set him up as a Manchurian candidate so far in advance. You really have to admire her pluck. /

If only the birthers could have been there to snap a photo every time Obama gave a wink and nod to someone when they asked for his social or birth certificate throughout his entire life. They could truly capture the conspiracy!

104 badger1970  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:32:17am

re: #63 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, they're stupid AND psychic.

So they pick the wrong lottery numbers?

re: #87 bosforus

So what do birthers think Obama's been doing his whole life when he's provided his ssn for tax forms, jobs, things like that? Do they think he doesn't know he's using a "fake" ssn?

Don't give them any more stupid ideas. //

105 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:32:32am

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Tingling, naturally warming massage oil: not a lubricant.

Learned that the hard way once.

I don't want to know.

106 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:32:39am

re: #93 Renaissance_Man

Five minutes later I walked in.

*cue wah-wah guitar porn soundtrack...*

107 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:32:41am

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Tingling, naturally warming massage oil: not a lubricant.

Learned that the hard way once.

I know a guy who wacked it with Vicks vapo-rub. I can only imagine the pain.

108 simoom  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:33:05am

re: #87 bosforus

So what do birthers think Obama's been doing his whole life when he's provided his ssn for tax forms, jobs, things like that? Do they think he doesn't know he's using a "fake" ssn?

Not just one, but thirty-nine! :P

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

Almost as soon as Orly Taitz answered her cellphone, before I could even ask a single question, the leader of the movement determined to disprove President Obama’s American citizenship breathlessly told me the president was “connected” to 39 bogus Social Security numbers, including one for a deceased person born in 1890. “If Obama is not stopped, we will be in Nazi Germany!” Taitz, who has a thick Russian accent, shrieked. “Forgery is a criminal matter and he committed it. Obama should be in the Big House, not the White House!”
109 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:33:21am

re: #102 Aceofwhat?

do you know how that story evolved?

I haven't the slightest idea.

110 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:33:24am

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Tingling, naturally warming massage oil: not a lubricant.

Learned that the hard way once.


No matter what they tell you WD-40 really isn't a universal lubricant and Duct Tape won't fix everything. //

111 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:33:56am

re: #107 Fozzie Bear

I know a guy who wacked it with Vicks vapo-rub. I can only imagine the pain.

One of my recruiters before I joined the Marines passed me these words of wisdom, "Shampoo chafes."

112 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:34:28am

OT
Is it a trial balloon now?
Obama suggests value-added tax may be an option

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

Huh?!

113 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:34:39am

re: #103 bosforus

If only the birthers could have been there to snap a photo every time Obama gave a wink and nod to someone when they asked for his social or birth certificate throughout his entire life. They could truly capture the conspiracy!

That's how the conspiracy works. They keep the names of future Presidential candidates secret from birth so we can't follow them and get the evidence.

114 subsailor68  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:34:39am

re: #88 oaktree

I'd pay money for the video tape of Sam Clemons (Mark Twain) and Winston Churchill having an informal dinner together. The discussion and wit would be priceless.

From a biography I saw that Theodore Roosevelt and Churchill met at least once, but that Roosevelt disliked Churchill and thought he was an unprincipled glory seeker and opportunist. (Which was essentially accurate of Churchill in the early 1900s, if not later.)

Hi Oaktree! You're right - Roosevelt didn't much care for Churchill (or his father Lord Randolph). Here's a link that includes the letter Teddy wrote to his son about it:

Churchill and TR

(It's about halfway down.)

115 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:34:55am

re: #106 Mad Al-Jaffee

*cue wah-wah guitar porn soundtrack...*

"Someone report a fire?"
"Yeah, in my pants."
"Lucky for you, I brought the hose."

bow-chika-bow-wow

116 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:35:24am

re: #107 Fozzie Bear

I know a guy who wacked it with Vicks vapo-rub. I can only imagine the pain.


Yeah but his sinuses were sooooo clear afterwards.

117 Barrett Brown  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:35:27am

re: #47 Aceofwhat?

Afraid not, just regular ol' coat cloth.

118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:35:38am

re: #107 Fozzie Bear

I know a guy who wacked it with Vicks vapo-rub. I can only imagine the pain.

Don't use Crisco either.

It's shortening.

119 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:36:12am

re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Someone report a fire?"
"Yeah, in my pants."
"Lucky for you, I brought the hose."

bow-chika-bow-wow

Bad joke:

What did the farmer say when he caught his cow getting it on with a chicken in the barn?

"brown-chicken-brown-cow"

I don't know why, but it makes me laugh every time.

120 steve-b  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:36:12am

re: #107 Fozzie Bear

I know a guy who wacked it with Vicks vapo-rub. I can only imagine the pain.

There's probably somebody out there who'd really get into that.

Brain bleach on Aisle Three....

121 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:36:17am

re: #108 simoom

That woman needs serious help.

122 simoom  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:36:44am

re: #102 Aceofwhat?

do you know how that story evolved?

ESPN Outdoors mis-published an editorial, conspiratorial, partisan rant as a journalism:
[Link: sports.espn.go.com...]

123 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:37:42am

re: #117 Barrett Brown

Afraid not, just regular ol' coat cloth.

How very republican of you.

124 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:37:54am

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

Hey DF - your boys are putting Zambrano in the pen. Sup with that?

125 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:39:49am

re: #124 cliffster

Hey DF - your boys are putting Zambrano in the pen. Sup with that?

I dunno. i haven't really followed the Cubs so far this year. It's too depressing, and I can't have a steady stream of bad news right now. I need to stay positive.

126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:39:53am

I ran out to the movie theater for the afternoon... saw "Hot Tub Time Machine".

Rob Corddry stole the movie... Was playing the exact guy you'd expect him to play and he stole the movie anyway.

127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:40:47am

re: #119 Fozzie Bear

I don't know why, but it makes me laugh every time.

Maybe because it is probably only the funniest joke ever told.

128 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:40:55am

re: #22 Barrett Brown

Great vlog. Even better than Kitteh Learns to Fish on the iPad, which I had to watch in the middle of yours, due to recent attention deficit problems.

I look forward to more like that.

129 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:41:02am

BBL - lots of work to do and I can't split my attention any more.

Have fun!

130 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:41:08am

You gotta see Tucker Carlson's website--to honor Earth Day, they are burning tires and idling Hummers as "carbon offset," and they think it is a joke.


www.dailycaller.com Tucker is not the moderate he plays himself to be

131 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:41:26am

re: #57 Aceofwhat?

like our dude the other day who wanted to argue about the Establishment Clause, despite our repeated posting of Jefferson and Madison quotes?

lolz...

The birthers are utterly immune to logic and facts. Indeed, they take great pride in this immunity. A bunch of pointy-headed intellectuals ain't gonna't tell them what to think! In psychology, this is actually characteristic of frustrated power-seekers and is a quality often associated with criminals.

132 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:43:42am

re: #130 elektramourns

Happy Earth Day, hippie!

133 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:45:21am

re: #130 elektramourns

You gotta see Tucker Carlson's website--to honor Earth Day, they are burning tires and idling Hummers as "carbon offset," and they think it is a joke.

www.dailycaller.com Tucker is not the moderate he plays himself to be

What an asshole. Denialism is bad enough, but that douche is actively trying to make things worse. Is it wrong to think that Ludwig should get to kick Carlson in the balls?

134 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:45:47am

re: #130 elektramourns

You gotta see Tucker Carlson's website--to honor Earth Day, they are burning tires and idling Hummers as "carbon offset," and they think it is a joke.

www.dailycaller.com Tucker is not the moderate he plays himself to be

A guy who compared, in all seriousness, the schoolkids singing a verse about Obama non-story to Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge could never be considered a 'moderate', or even a commentator, by anyone except a cultist.

135 SteveMcG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:46:16am

This is like watching the Braves all trying to get to the plate so they could hit home runs off of Phillie relievers Tuesday night. It's just too easy to bash.

136 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:46:18am

re: #130 elektramourns

You gotta see Tucker Carlson's website--to honor Earth Day, they are burning tires and idling Hummers as "carbon offset," and they think it is a joke.

www.dailycaller.com Tucker is not the moderate he plays himself to be

It looks to me like a spoof or a humor piece. I don't think he's burning tires.

137 Ugly John  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:46:30am

re: #124 cliffster

Lilly's coming back from the DL and they've got too many starters (or at least too many players listed as starters). Plus the pen is too young and they need an experienced hand be a leader and teacher. Not to mention, The Big Z isn't doing 3/4 of Sweet Fanny Adams as a starter.

This is not a good year to be a Cubs fan.

138 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:46:31am

sorta OT:

An intimate evening with Sarah Palin - speech transcript

The shift from the political, so now that I have that shift from the political but still have that desire to talk about the economy and talk about energy and resources and national security and all those things. I was telling Todd, okay, this is like [inaudible] on the vice presidential campaign trail, where you never really knew what you were getting into when you get into that line before you were interviewed. Obviously, sometimes I never knew what I was getting into in an interview. Obviously!

[...]

Even the excitement of the Olympics recently though, couldn’t distract Americans from one of our oldest sports, and that’s politics. The upcoming midterm elections seem to be on everyone’s minds, it’s pretty fascinating to see kind of a shift in American policy right now and a lot of people lining up want to know what the heck’s going on? And wanting to be involved and it’s hard to believe too that there’s already much talk and speculation about what will happen in the US presidential race in 2012. We like to joke that that’s how we lost some reporters on the way up here. We usually have reporters following us and we said Yup, we’re flying north. And then we found out they misunderstood, they booked their flights for New Hampshire. Political. Yeah.

1. wtf.
2. English majors, I challenge you to pick any one sentence out of that, and diagram it.
3. there is no third thing.

139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:47:12am

re: #137 Ugly John

What year's a good year to be a Cubs fan?

140 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:47:31am

re: #130 elektramourns

You gotta see Tucker Carlson's website--to honor Earth Day, they are burning tires and idling Hummers as "carbon offset," and they think it is a joke.

[Link: www.dailycaller.com...] Tucker is not the moderate he plays himself to be

Tucker's a freakin' dork.

141 Ugly John  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:47:47am

re: #139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

1908

142 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:48:04am

re: #137 Ugly John

This is not a good year millennium to be a Cubs fan.

fixed

143 Lidane  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:48:16am

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

Is it wrong to think that Ludwig should get to kick Carlson in the balls?

It couldn't hurt. Much. Hell, Ludwig might even improve Tucker's dancing skills if he kicks hard enough.

144 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:48:42am

re: #138 negativ

sorta OT:

An intimate evening with Sarah Palin - speech transcript

2. English majors, I challenge you to pick any one sentence out of that, and diagram it.

I was an English major and I never learned how to diagram sentences. Not even in advanced placement high school English (we were all about literature and vocabulary.)

145 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:48:51am

Shower/tie.

sigh.

146 badger1970  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:48:55am

re: #137 Ugly John

This is not a good year to be a Cubs fan.

Is there ever a good year to be a Cubs fan? // (from a Brewer fan).

147 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:49:15am

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

What an asshole. Denialism is bad enough, but that douche is actively trying to make things worse. Is it wrong to think that Ludwig should get to kick Carlson in the balls?

It's not wrong and I'd pay a little cash to see that.

148 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:49:49am

re: #143 Lidane

It couldn't hurt. Much. Hell, Ludwig might even improve Tucker's dancing skills if he kicks hard enough.

LOL!

149 Lidane  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:49:51am

re: #138 negativ

English majors, I challenge you to pick any one sentence out of that, and diagram it.

That's the equivalent of asking a bunch of math and physics majors to divide by zero. It can't be done.

150 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:49:52am

It's time to tell the blunt truth here: The redneck culture hates and fears intellectual achievement and intelligent people. My own experience with my extended family is far from the only evidence of this.
Try saying something halfway intelligent in a general public place, like a wal-mart checkout line. No matter what position you take, you could even be a birther, you will get ugly and threatening looks from any number of slack-jawed yahoos standing around. There are some members of my family who literally cannot be around me without trying to insult me somehow, like asking when I got dentures or using a moronic strawman to try to contradict me. They are especially amused by my inability to prevent earthquakes, as though my work is worthless otherwise. These people wonder why I don't give a rat's ass whether they live or die.

151 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:50:14am

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

What an asshole. Denialism is bad enough, but that douche is actively trying to make things worse. Is it wrong to think that Ludwig should get to kick Carlson in the balls?

I'm not so sure doing that would be possible.

152 3eff Jeff  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:50:36am

Mostly driveby posting, tangentially topical.

When the Teapartiers get around to making a slanted documentary of their movement, they should call it "Nirth of a TV Station".

Ok, I'm done. That was low.

153 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:52:03am

re: #150 shiplord kirel

It's time to tell the blunt truth here: The redneck culture hates and fears intellectual achievement and intelligent people. My own experience with my extended family is far from the only evidence of this.
Try saying something halfway intelligent in a general public place, like a wal-mart checkout line. No matter what position you take, you could even be a birther, you will get ugly and threatening looks from any number of slack-jawed yahoos standing around. There are some members of my family who literally cannot be around me without trying to insult me somehow, like asking when I got dentures or using a moronic strawman to try to contradict me. They are especially amused by my inability to prevent earthquakes, as though my work is worthless otherwise. These people wonder why I don't give a rat's ass whether they live or die.

When you aren't one of the people doing well, its very tempting to run down those who are doing well.

154 SteveMcG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:52:27am

re: #152 3eff Jeff

You know, I would actually pay to see a teaparty produced documentary. I love comedy.

155 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:52:38am

re: #151 Fozzie Bear

I'm not so sure doing that would be possible.

What would not be possible?

156 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:53:13am

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

What would not be possible?

You can't kick someone in the balls if they don't have balls

157 alexknyc  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:53:47am

Obama was born in Hawaii. Everyone needs to get over it.

Why is it that proponents of states' rights can't abide by Hawaii's right to certify births how they see fit?

158 3eff Jeff  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:53:52am

re: #132 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Happy Earth Day, hippie!

Oh, and Happy Earth Day, to you too! Hippie.

159 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:54:13am

re: #140 darthstar

Tucker's that nerdy little twit in school who always wanted to fit in with the cool kids and did stupid shit to prove he was cool never realizing they were laughing AT him.

160 SteveMcG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:54:26am

re: #156 cliffster

You can't kick someone in the balls if they don't have balls

That's not right. He's got 'em, he just doesn't know what they're for.

161 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:55:11am

Where do the tea-partiers get that smirking, condescending, facetious arrogance we see on practically every video of them?
It is an expression of their enormous joy and self-satisfaction that nerdy know-it-alls and eggheads cannot force them to listen to reason. This is actually a long-standing tradition in certain segments of society, an integral part of their worldview.

162 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:55:26am

re: #157 alexknyc

Obama was born in Hawaii. Everyone needs to get over it.

Why is it that proponents of states' rights can't abide by Hawaii's right to certify births how they see fit?

Because it doesn't work in their favor. "States Rights" for them really means "America as Rush and Glenn think it should be".

163 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:56:22am

I'm keeping that "Frightwing politics" quote for future use, I don't recall hearing it before but it certainly seems apt to me.

164 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:56:29am

re: #22 Barrett Brown

Yo, Charles et al-

E-mailed you about this a bit earlier but figure you're swamped as usual; Donald Douglas has neglected to make a correction regarding his recent attack on me for allegedly not having addressed the presence of the RPG in the Wikileaks video when I in fact had done so two days prior, as I explained to him when he e-mailed me to taunt me. He promised to post a correction of his own after I reiterated my correction a second time in another article; after I did so, he neglected to post his own correction. Here's my first ZOMG VLOG:


[Video]

Nice. You do realize the hand-rolled cigarette will make them crazy, right? Heh.

Donald Douglas is a complete buffoon; he deserves to be verbally smacked around. Notice I wrote "verbally," because that's the newest wingnut blogger technique -- to yell and scream that someone is "threatening" them when a phrase like that is used.

165 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:56:34am

re: #160 SteveMcG

More like they haven't dropped yet.

166 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:56:48am

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

What an asshole. Denialism is bad enough, but that douche is actively trying to make things worse. Is it wrong to think that Ludwig should get to kick Carlson in the balls?

My brother and his family are this kind of Republican. For the lights out hour a few weeks ago, they went around and turned on all the lights in their house, as well as their Xmas lights outside. The kids thought it was funny (they watch Hannity, if that's any indication).

167 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:56:54am

re: #161 shiplord kirel

It's the same shit-eating grin on people's faces when during a snowstorm, they say, "Global warming, hah!" as though they'd just spent years of effort.

168 SteveMcG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:57:30am

You know, it's occured to me that my daughter has two different birth certificates. One with her original name, birthmother and father. The other with her given name and my wife and my listed as parents. If we ever asked CA for a copy, we would get the new one. But both certs have the same document number. Maybe the nirthers should start searching for all males born in Hawaii on the same day as the President!

169 Lidane  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:57:58am

re: #157 alexknyc

Why is it that proponents of states' rights can't abide by Hawaii's right to certify births how they see fit?

Because it's not about states' rights. It's about de-legitimizing the President.

The more they keep harping on this birther shit, the more the truly ignorant rubes out there think of Obama as a dirty foreigner, or as an "other", undercutting any success he might have while in office. That's the whole point.

170 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:58:11am

re: #159 Dreggas

Tucker's that nerdy little twit in school who always wanted to fit in with the cool kids and did stupid shit to prove he was cool never realizing they were laughing AT him.

A few years ago he bragged beating up a guy in a restroom because he was gay.

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

171 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:58:34am

The birthers are an embarrassment to the right, just as the truthers were an embarrassment to the left.

172 SteveMcG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:58:42am

re: #165 Dreggas

More like they haven't dropped yet.

Or maybe a botched vasectomy.

173 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:59:09am

re: #170 darthstar

A few years ago he bragged about beating up a guy in a restroom because he was gay.

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

pimf

174 Lidane  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 11:59:59am

re: #171 SteveB4

The birthers are an embarrassment to the right, just as the truthers were an embarrassment to the left.

And the ultimate 9/11 Truther nutbar, Alex Jones, is now loved and fellated on the right and by Fox News as a legitimate source.

175 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:00:54pm

I'm glad I don't work in a Catholic church on Take Your Children to Work Day

176 simoom  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:01:10pm

re: #136 Guanxi88

It looks to me like a spoof or a humor piece. I don't think he's burning tires.

While the terms/conditions of the carbon offset-offset seem to allow the Daily Caller to generate the pollution however they choose (or even not at all), they do seem to be actually selling the things.

177 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:01:28pm

re: #173 darthstar

pimf

"I grabbed him by the... you know... "

No, Tucker; I don't know. Did you grab him by the balls? And, if so, why?

178 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:02:09pm

re: #174 Lidane

re: #171 SteveB4


And the ultimate 9/11 Truther nutbar, Alex Jones, is now loved and fellated on the right and by Fox News as a legitimate source.

i didn't know that he'd been on Fox till I saw that info here. So crazy.

179 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:02:20pm

re: #175 cliffster

I'm glad I don't work in a Catholic church on Take Your Children to Work Day

One of Ratzinger's closest friends and associates, Cardinal Mixa, just resigned. Wonder if they have decided he was the one to be tossed under the Popemobile so they can start to ignore this whole mess

180 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:02:36pm

did someone say "fellated on the right" ?

can you be fellated on the left or (naughty) the backside?

LMAO

181 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:02:40pm

Tucker Carlson's Huffingtonpost ripoff, thedailycaller, is just so very sad.

They can even afford to stream videos.

182 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:02:46pm

re: #176 simoom

While the terms/conditions of the carbon offset-offset seem to allow the Daily Caller to generate the pollution however they choose (or even not at all), they do seem to be actually selling the things.

Hey, why not make a buck where and while you can? I'd try to figure out how to take cash from all parties involved, and do not a damned thing for any of them, but then, I used to be in the UAW.

184 Lidane  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:03:08pm

re: #167 Obdicut

It's the same shit-eating grin on people's faces when during a snowstorm, they say, "Global warming, hah!" as though they'd just spent years of effort.

I have friends like that. They got all sneery and self-righteous when it snowed here in Texas this past winter.

The worst part? Some of those friends are teachers. I weep for the future sometimes.

186 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:03:40pm

re: #179 ralphieboy

One of Ratzinger's closest friends and associates, Cardinal Mixa, just resigned. Wonder if they have decided he was the one to be tossed under the Popemobile so they can start to ignore this whole mess

I heard that and thought the same thing.

187 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:03:44pm

re: #130 elektramourns

You gotta see Tucker Carlson's website--to honor Earth Day, they are burning tires and idling Hummers as "carbon offset," and they think it is a joke.

[Link: www.dailycaller.com...] Tucker is not the moderate he plays himself to be

I'm just surprised that we haven't heard about any wingnuts organising 'bring your own blowtorch' glacier melting excursions.

188 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:03:54pm

re: #183 Ojoe

OT Monday should be interesting; perhaps this deserves a thread.

Sorry, I don't Facebook. What's the rumpus?

190 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:04:39pm

re: #188 Guanxi88

Sorry, I don't Facebook. What's the rumpus?

Boobquake.

191 Lidane  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:04:52pm

re: #180 elektramourns

It's all a matter of technique. ;)

192 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:05:05pm

Tiger's late father wants you to buy more Nike shit

193 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:05:11pm

re: #187 Jimmah

I'm just surprised that we haven't heard about any wingnuts organising 'bring your own blowtorch' glacier melting excursions.

What the hell is it with the right that they're so outrageously outraged against Earth Day? I just don't get it.

194 Ojoe  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:05:15pm

re: #188 Guanxi88

world exposition of cleavage to see if it causes earthquakes peer claim of Islamic cleric.

195 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:05:22pm

re: #190 darthstar

Boobquake.

Not sure what it means, but I'm intrigued. Tell me more.

196 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:05:57pm

re: #194 Ojoe

world exposition of cleavage to see if it causes earthquakes peer claim of Islamic cleric.

That's an experiment I'd be willing to support with tax dollars.

197 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:06:07pm

re: #117 Barrett Brown

Afraid not, just regular ol' coat cloth.

I would have respected you even more...just sayin'!

198 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:06:30pm

re: #183 Ojoe

Don't have a Facebook account and I am not going to get one.

199 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:06:32pm

re: #196 Guanxi88

That's an experiment I'd be willing to support with tax dollars.

It's a self-contained (barely) stimulus package.

200 badger1970  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:06:54pm

re: #193 Sigma_x

The hard-core believe that Earth Day and communism/socialism are the same thing. (you know, red on the inside, green on the outside).

201 Ming  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:07:04pm

In the Hawaii certificate of live birth, I believe that the address for the Obama family happens to be the same apartment where Obama's grandmother passed away, only a day or two before he was elected President. The famiily kept that apartment for all those years. For anyone who claims to care about family values, the Obama family has got to be a pretty good example of a good family; his grandparents lived in that same Hawaii apartment all those years, saving up for their grandkids' education. And as far as Roland martin's comments are concerned, it is true that many Americans are stupid. As the Chinese race past us in science, they must wonder how dumb Americans can get.

202 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:07:12pm

re: #171 SteveB4

The birthers are an embarrassment to the right, just as the truthers were an embarrassment to the left.

"the truthers were an embarrassment to the left..." How can you assume that all truthers were of the left?

203 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:07:20pm

re: #185 darthstar

Speaking of dick-heads (this one should make Ace happy), Rubio is now just making shit up

Wow, that's such blatant contempt for the voters Rubio is showing there. What an asshole.

204 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:07:32pm

Gotta go to lunch. BBL

205 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:07:50pm

Here's a comment someone left in the comments section of the absurd dailycaller tire-burning piece (which isn't even funny; but the comment sure is...)

"Haha!!! Pretty durn good one, yall!!! I don’t know about yall but Im gonna believe a dang metaoraologist that Hanity says is legit and also works for big oil companies before I believe a dang global community of 10,000 independent PhD sciensetists who overwelmingly agree that climut change is what they call manmade. Even if all of Texas A&M’s atmosferic sciense staff says its real!! They a bunch of communists at Texas A&M!!! If Hanity and that weatherman and Bachmann say that Climategate is ral, I don’t give a durn what the UK govurnments asessetment of Climategate was, even if they said it was all rightwing propagaanda. Sciense is bunk yall!!! Them scientists said we came from the dang dinosaurs too!!! What a load!!! 2010 is gonna be eye openning for the dang elite libturds yall!!!!! I’m so excited Im gonna shoot my dang 9mm in the air yall!!!"

206 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:08:11pm

re: #170 darthstar

A few years ago he bragged beating up a guy in a restroom because he was gay.

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

If that's true, it makes him a piece of garbage. But then, he's the sort of weak man who might make up such things to be cool in the eyes of his base. Either way, it is pathetic.

207 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:08:18pm

re: #157 alexknyc

Obama was born in Hawaii. Everyone needs to get over it.

Why is it that proponents of states' rights can't abide by Hawaii's right to certify births how they see fit?

The state of Hawaii's official position is that the certificate of live birth is sufficient proof of Obama's citizenship and eligibility. The leading proponent and defender of this position is the self-same Governor Linda Lingle who introduced Sarah Palin at the Republican national convention in 2008.
A birther I know had no trouble dismissing this fact when I presented it to him. As everyone knows, he claimed, they just dipped into the Clinton blackmail file and came up with dirt on Lingle which they threatened to release if she failed to play along with the conspiracy. He seemed not to understand that he had the burden of proof in presenting this notion as evidence.
He also could not explain how the obammunists would know so far in advance that this would work since they would have known from the beginning of the campaign that a cover-up would be necessary. Beyond that, how they could count on having dirt on literally everybody who would have definite knowledge of what is, or is not, in the Hawaii archives?
His answer was a cliche stolen from the UFO culture: "They have their ways."

208 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:08:19pm

remember Sen. Jim DeMented saying that all the snow in DC in February was proof there was no global warming

209 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:08:20pm

re: #198 Bubblehead II

Don't have a Facebook account and I am not going to get one.

Are we just jokes to you?

210 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:08:28pm

re: #193 Sigma_x

What the hell is it with the right that they're so outrageously outraged against Earth Day? I just don't get it.

A self destructive impulse? I'd love to oblige them.

211 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:08:58pm

re: #201 Ming

In the Hawaii certificate of live birth, I believe that the address for the Obama family happens to be the same apartment where Obama's grandmother passed away, only a day or two before he was elected President. The famiily kept that apartment for all those years. For anyone who claims to care about family values, the Obama family has got to be a pretty good example of a good family; his grandparents lived in that same Hawaii apartment all those years, saving up for their grandkids' education. And as far as Roland martin's comments are concerned, it is true that many Americans are stupid. As the Chinese race past us in science, they must wonder how dumb Americans can get.

I missed the part where Roland Martin commented on the Chinese passing us on science and how the Chinese must wonder how dumb we are. What part of the video was that on?

212 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:09:05pm

re: #200 badger1970

The hard-core believe that Earth Day and communism/socialism are the same thing. (you know, red on the inside, green on the outside).

It's not even that, really. It's just that their 'enemy' likes it, therefore they must hate it. The most important thing to the Conservative cult mindset is to hate 'liberals', and by extension everything they're in favour of. There can be no common ground - the enemy is wholly evil, and your side is wholly righteous.

213 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:09:24pm

re: #206 beekiller

If that's true, it makes him a piece of garbage. But then, he's the sort of weak man who might make up such things to be cool in the eyes of his base. Either way, it is pathetic.



Carlson continued, "I've been bothered in Georgetown Park," in Washington, D.C., "when I was in high school." When Abrams asked how Carlson responded to being "bothered," Carlson asserted, "I went back with someone I knew and grabbed the guy by the -- you know, and grabbed him, and ... hit him against the stall with his head, actually."

214 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:09:42pm

re: #198 Bubblehead II

Don't have a Facebook account and I am not going to get one.

resistance is futile

215 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:09:57pm

re: #122 simoom

ESPN Outdoors mis-published an editorial, conspiratorial, partisan rant as a journalism:
[Link: sports.espn.go.com...]

bingo! thanks. we should let facts get in the way of our outrage...it separates us from those who don't.

216 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:10:05pm

re: #212 Renaissance_Man

It's not even that, really. It's just that their 'enemy' likes it, therefore they must hate it. The most important thing to the Conservative cult mindset is to hate 'liberals', and by extension everything they're in favour of. There can be no common ground - the enemy is wholly evil, and your side is wholly righteous.

Fortunate, indeed, that such thinking is confined solely to one side of the political spectrum.

217 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:10:07pm

re: #213 darthstar

Oh, he brought a friend back with him to beat up the gay guy? What a tough dude he is!

218 Sigma_x  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:10:34pm

re: #211 Walter L. Newton

I missed the part where Roland Martin commented on the Chinese passing us on science and how the Chinese must wonder how dumb we are. What part of the video was that on?

But see, most of the right's complaints I can at least understand. This I can't. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It goes to show you that there is no reasoning with these people. If the left came out against cancer, than Sean Hannity and Limbaugh would actually becomes supporters of cancer, it's starting to look like.

219 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:11:10pm

re: #174 Lidane

If someone links to Alex Jones as a legitimate news source, they deserve to get a verbal smackdown. He's a conspiracy nut, who flits from conspiracy to conspiracy. His troofer nonsense is immensely objectionable and angers me to no end. That anyone takes him seriously shows just how clueless so many people are - and worse - that they think he's a legitimate news source because he's now pushing a conspiracy theory that they like.

*facepalm*

220 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:11:34pm

re: #193 Sigma_x

What the hell is it with the right that they're so outrageously outraged against Earth Day? I just don't get it.

It's because the right has convinced itself that environmentalism of any kind is a commie plot to achieve redistribution of wealth and limit freedom.

Just like the suggestion that the government should act to limit the amount of salt in processed food. I expect to see tea-partiers holding salt eating competitions anytime now...

221 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:11:45pm

re: #185 darthstar

Speaking of dick-heads (this one should make Ace happy), Rubio is now just making shit up

Woo-hoo! Vote for Crist! It's almost like voting for Christ...

222 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:12:36pm

re: #221 Aceofwhat?

Christ would just ascend mid-term anyway and leave everyone hanging.

223 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:12:43pm

re: #205 Sigma_x

Here's a comment someone left in the comments section of the absurd dailycaller tire-burning piece (which isn't even funny; but the comment sure is...)

"Haha!!! Pretty durn good one, yall!!! I don’t know about yall but Im gonna believe a dang metaoraologist that Hanity says is legit and also works for big oil companies before I believe a dang global community of 10,000 independent PhD sciensetists who overwelmingly agree that climut change is what they call manmade. Even if all of Texas A&M’s atmosferic sciense staff says its real!! They a bunch of communists at Texas A&M!!! If Hanity and that weatherman and Bachmann say that Climategate is ral, I don’t give a durn what the UK govurnments asessetment of Climategate was, even if they said it was all rightwing propagaanda. Sciense is bunk yall!!! Them scientists said we came from the dang dinosaurs too!!! What a load!!! 2010 is gonna be eye openning for the dang elite libturds yall!!! I’m so excited Im gonna shoot my dang 9mm in the air yall!!!"

And that was of course a satirical comment. The commenter used all the typical misspellings used to present a "rube" sort of talker and he/she stop on stereotypical references.

I've know all sorts of "rural" and undereducated people, hard core fundamentalist, people living off-grid, and just plain old poor people who have never had much of an education, and that's not typical language or speech patterned construction of those kind of people.

A fake, funny, but a fake.

224 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:13:10pm

re: #220 Jimmah

It's because the right has convinced itself that environmentalism of any kind is a commie plot to achieve redistribution of wealth and limit freedom.

Just like the suggestion that the government should act to limit the amount of salt in processed food. I expect to see tea-partiers holding salt eating competitions anytime now...

I would sponsor such an event. The rules would have to say drinking water is cheating.

225 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:13:11pm

re: #173 darthstar

pimf

His story confuses me. From the way he tells it it sounds like there was only one person in the bathroom. How did Tucker know if the guy was gay? He says he went back into the bathroom with a friend and assaulted him... so where was the other guy he was being gay with? I don't get it. For that matter, Tucker doesn't say he thought the guy was gay (unless I missed that somewhere) he says he beat him up because he was bothering him. Sounds more like Tucker heard the guy in the stall enjoying himself and decided to beat him up for it by grabbing his you know what.

226 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:13:23pm

I think Rupert would tell Sean to fellate an elephant at 8pm if he thought it would bring in more ad dollars.

Fix News is really the National Inquirer. The people who buy NI watch Fix. Think about it.

Trash is trash.

Rupert just wanna make some green do' while he be libbin'

227 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:13:36pm

WellPoint Routinely Targets Breast Cancer Patients (for policy cancellation)

Behold the magic of the marketplace.

228 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:13:38pm

re: #223 Walter L. Newton

And that was of course a satirical comment. The commenter used all the typical misspellings used to present a "rube" sort of talker and he/she stop on stereotypical references.

I've know all sorts of "rural" and undereducated people, hard core fundamentalist, people living off-grid, and just plain old poor people who have never had much of an education, and that's not typical language or speech patterned construction of those kind of people.

A fake, funny, but a fake.

Th 9mm was a dead give-away. No self-respecting man of the soil would fire a weapon whose caliber was denominated in millimeters.

229 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:14:31pm

re: #203 Obdicut

Wow, that's such blatant contempt for the voters Rubio is showing there. What an asshole.

tell me about it...from Kucinich to (potentially) Rubio...is it me??

(no, we're not going to bag on Kucinich today, don't get your boxers in a twist...)

230 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:14:39pm

re: #218 Sigma_x

But see, most of the right's complaints I can at least understand. This I can't. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It goes to show you that there is no reasoning with these people. If the left came out against cancer, than Sean Hannity and Limbaugh would actually becomes supporters of cancer, it's starting to look like.

And what part of your answer addressed my question? You're answer didn't make any sense considering what I asked. Can you show me where in that video that Roland Martin made comments about the Chinese having advanced in science and questions Americans level of intelligence?

231 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:14:45pm

re: #216 Guanxi88

Fortunate, indeed, that such thinking is confined solely to one side of the political spectrum.

It's not confined to one side of politics, nor is it even confined to politics. I'm sorry, I don't think I agree with your premise that it is.

232 SteveMcG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:14:47pm

re: #220 Jimmah

It's because the right has convinced itself that environmentalism of any kind is a commie plot to achieve redistribution of wealth and limit freedom.

Just like the suggestion that the government should act to limit the amount of salt in processed food. I expect to see tea-partiers holding salt eating competitions anytime now...

I happen to use salt more as a topping than a seasoning. Seriously, I go through a can of Morton's each month! (My neurologist says I have some kind of sodium drive, but I don't remember the details.) I'm not a doctor, but I always thought salt only stayed in the body temporarily, as opposed to suger, which gets metabolized to fat.

233 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:15:06pm

re: #213 darthstar


Carlson continued, "I've been bothered in Georgetown Park," in Washington, D.C., "when I was in high school." When Abrams asked how Carlson responded to being "bothered," Carlson asserted, "I went back with someone I knew and grabbed the guy by the -- you know, and grabbed him, and ... hit him against the stall with his head, actually."

ah, so he's a piece of garbage since he's bragging about it years later. I've been hit on before but it never occurred to me to resort to violence. But then I'm not an insecure pathetic man so...

234 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:15:29pm

re: #231 Renaissance_Man

It's not confined to one side of politics, nor is it even confined to politics. I'm sorry, I don't think I agree with your premise that it is.

Then we agree after all.

235 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:15:44pm

re: #229 Aceofwhat?

Except you just did, which is lame of you.

236 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:16:27pm

re: #225 bosforus

His story confuses me. From the way he tells it it sounds like there was only one person in the bathroom. How did Tucker know if the guy was gay? He says he went back into the bathroom with a friend and assaulted him... so where was the other guy he was being gay with? I don't get it. For that matter, Tucker doesn't say he thought the guy was gay (unless I missed that somewhere) he says he beat him up because he was bothering him. Sounds more like Tucker heard the guy in the stall enjoying himself and decided to beat him up for it by grabbing his you know what.


My fault for not copying the whole paragraph. In the context of the conversation:

On the August 28 edition of MSNBC Live, hosted by MSNBC general manager Dan Abrams, Tucker Carlson, host of MSNBC's Tucker, asserted, "Having sex in a public men's room is outrageous. It's also really common. I've been bothered in men's rooms." Carlson continued, "I've been bothered in Georgetown Park," in Washington, D.C., "when I was in high school." When Abrams asked how Carlson responded to being "bothered," Carlson asserted, "I went back with someone I knew and grabbed the guy by the -- you know, and grabbed him, and ... hit him against the stall with his head, actually."
237 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:16:32pm

re: #185 darthstar

Speaking of dick-heads (this one should make Ace happy), Rubio is now just making shit up

He does have an authentic endorsement from Darth Cheney though:

Ex-VP Dick Cheney endorses Rubio for Fla. SenateFormer Vice President Dick Cheney on Thursday endorsed Marco Rubio in Florida's GOP Senate primary, a high-profile endorsement announced in the midst of a federal investigation into spending on state Republican credit cards that involves Rubio and others.

Questions about spending haven't slowed Rubio's momentum as he's surpassed Gov. Charlie Crist in the polls. Cheney called Rubio a strong conservative leader.

"We can trust Marco to stand up to the Obama agenda that threatens our freedom, and promote clear conservative alternatives," Cheney said in a statement released by the Rubio campaign.

Darth may be a lot of things but stupid isn't one of them. He has to know that Rubio is a lowest-common-denominator creationist buffoon who will take the GOP a big step farther down he road to theocrat rube hell and electoral extinction. Apparently he doesn't care if the short term benefits to his big business constituency are great enough.

238 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:17:19pm

re: #224 Fozzie Bear

I would sponsor such an event. The rules would have to say drinking water is cheating.

Yes! And to demonstrate their plucky patriotism and superior scientific savvy to the full they should breathe only CO2 while they are eating it.

239 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:17:58pm

re: #227 negativ

WellPoint Routinely Targets Breast Cancer Patients (for policy cancellation)

Behold the magic of the marketplace.

Either Wellpoint or another company did the same thing for AIDS claims - created an algorithm that would find those claims so they could cancel them. Guy won in court.

Shame

240 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:18:02pm

re: #237 shiplord kirel

Please don't call Dick 'Darth'...
:)

241 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:18:08pm

re: #209 darthstar

Well I do get a laugh from some of the posts that scroll across my screen. Does that count?

242 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:18:11pm

re: #236 darthstar

Right, but where was the other guy? I think Tucker's just making crap up and looking like an idiot while doing it.

243 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:18:27pm

re: #237 shiplord kirel

Wow. I thought, if not better, than different of Cheney than stopping to supporting a bastard like Rubio.

I was wrong.

244 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:19:38pm

re: #242 bosforus

Right, but where was the other guy? I think Tucker's just making crap up and looking like an idiot while doing it.

At best, Tucker was glorifying a gay bashing incident that may or may not have happened.

245 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:19:54pm

The NYT could, and should sue the living shit out of the Rubio campaign.

246 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:20:47pm

re: #240 darthstar

Please don't call Dick 'Darth'...
:)

You can't be held responsible for your relatives. Believe me, I know.
//

247 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:21:23pm

re: #244 darthstar

At best, Tucker was glorifying a gay bashing incident that may or may not have happened.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. He's an absolute tool. I'm not trying to defend him or anything like that.

248 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:21:53pm

re: #234 Guanxi88

Then we agree after all.

Oh, I get it. You were just trying to make the point that because I didn't present a point and couch it with equivocation about the 'other side' that it might be seen less accurate or valid. And so someone with a knee-jerk partisan viewpoint might see it and assume, naturally, that any comment about one side that didn't painstakingly point out the equivalent on the other side was obviously mindlessly partisan and mere background noise.

Oh, you.

249 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:21:57pm

re: #146 badger1970

Might be a new record this decade for how far into a season that the Pirates are at or above .500...

/// :p

250 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:22:06pm

This looks like it might be an interesting movie....
Get Low
Robert Duval and Bill Murray.

251 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:23:24pm

Tucker is playing the rightwing game like the best of them. I though the would be more moderate. He shills like the rest.

Can you name just one moderate Republican other than the 2 ladies from Maine?

252 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:23:56pm

re: #248 Renaissance_Man

Oh, I get it. You were just trying to make the point that because I didn't present a point and couch it with equivocation about the 'other side' that it might be seen less accurate or valid. And so someone with a knee-jerk partisan viewpoint might see it and assume, naturally, that any comment about one side that didn't painstakingly point out the equivalent on the other side was obviously mindlessly partisan and mere background noise.

Oh, you.

Just trying to have a bit of fun, and here you go and get all exact on me.

253 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:23:56pm

re: #251 elektramourns

Chris Christie.

254 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:24:13pm

re: #214 cliffster

resistance is futile

Tell that to Capt Janeway. Iirc, she killed the Borg Queen and escaped.

255 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:24:14pm

re: #220 Jimmah

It's because the right has convinced itself that environmentalism of any kind is a commie plot to achieve redistribution of wealth and limit freedom.

Just like the suggestion that the government should act to limit the amount of salt in processed food. I expect to see tea-partiers holding salt eating competitions anytime now...

OTOH, said suggestion is a reminder of why there are good reasons for limits on governmental regulation. i'm sure i've heard of dumber suggestions...can't remember where offhand, though...

256 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:25:12pm

re: #251 elektramourns

Tucker is playing the rightwing game like the best of them. I though the would be more moderate. He shills like the rest.

Can you name just one moderate Republican other than the 2 ladies from Maine?

Charlie Crist

blankets are for cuddling, not politics. keep it on the couch...

257 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:25:21pm

re: #232 SteveMcG

I happen to use salt more as a topping than a seasoning. Seriously, I go through a can of Morton's each month! (My neurologist says I have some kind of sodium drive, but I don't remember the details.) I'm not a doctor, but I always thought salt only stayed in the body temporarily, as opposed to suger, which gets metabolized to fat.

Sure , it won't take long for your salt levels to return to normal once excessive intake is stopped, but if you are taking in too much on a regular basis, it is nevertheless true that you are putting yourself at risk of various problems. I'd much prefer food with less salt used in it's production (which accounts for most of our salt intake), and just add salt on top (where I can actually taste it).

258 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:25:53pm

The end of Hulu is near.....
Hulu pushes forward with $9.95 subscription service

Hulu, the popular online site for watching television shows, plans to begin testing a subscription service as soon as May 24, according to people with knowledge of the plans.


Bummer. It was nice while it lasted.

259 Locker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:26:03pm

re: #220 Jimmah

It's because the right has convinced itself that environmentalism of any kind is a commie plot to achieve redistribution of wealth and limit freedom.

Just like the suggestion that the government should act to limit the amount of salt in processed food. I expect to see tea-partiers holding salt eating competitions anytime now...

Oh yea a "certain person" was just bitching about the salt limit and the "nanny state" yesterday. Reaction as predicted.

260 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:26:16pm

re: #202 Walter L. Newton

re: #171 SteveB4


"the truthers were an embarrassment to the left..." How can you assume that all truthers were of the left?

I think it was clear that the truther movement was primarily a left-based movement. That doesn't mean that right wing truthers were nonexistent.

261 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:26:23pm

re: #254 Bubblehead II

Tell that to Capt Janeway. Iirc, she killed the Borg Queen and escaped.

Actually, that was an artificial memory created to placate her. In actuality, she's encased in a metal tomb and her brain is being used to house the Borg Queens MP3 collection of Abba and Bay City Roller songs.

262 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:26:54pm

re: #253 lawhawk

Chris Christie.

RINO!!!!

//

263 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:26:56pm

re: #258 Killgore Trout

The end of Hulu is near...
Hulu pushes forward with $9.95 subscription service


Bummer. It was nice while it lasted.

I haven't watched Hulu since I got Netflix.

264 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:26:59pm

re: #261 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Actually, that was an artificial memory created to placate her. In actuality, she's encased in a metal tomb and her brain is being used to house the Borg Queens MP3 collection of Abba and Bay City Roller songs.

S-A-T-U-R-D-A-Y NIGHT!

265 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:27:13pm

re: #235 Obdicut

Except you just did, which is lame of you.

it was an attempt at humor. sometimes i'm not funny. don't read anything more into it than that.

266 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:27:42pm

re: #260 SteveB4

I think it was clear that the truther movement was primarily a left-based movement. That doesn't mean that right wing truthers were nonexistent.

Right... like Alex Jones? You statement was a blanket statement, painting the whole movement as left.

267 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:28:07pm

re: #257 Jimmah

Sure , it won't take long for your salt levels to return to normal once excessive intake is stopped, but if you are taking in too much on a regular basis, it is nevertheless true that you are putting yourself at risk of various problems. I'd much prefer food with less salt used in it's production (which accounts for most of our salt intake), and just add salt on top (where I can actually taste it).

i'd prefer to make that choice on my own, since I and millions of others like me who don't have hypertension are at no risk of anything.

science isn't just for earth day...

268 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:28:26pm

VP Biden, appearing on The View, says that everyone, including PM Netenyahu, knows that we need to impose UN sanctions on Iran, and that they should be coming by the end of this month or next.

"Everyone from the Israeli prime minister straight through to the British prime minister to the president of Russia, everyone agrees the next step we should take is the UN sanction route," Biden said.

"I believe you will see a sanction regime coming out by the end of this month, beginning of next month," he said.

Asked whether Washington was concerned that Israel might attack its arch-foe Iran without US consultation, Biden said, "They're not going to do that."

He said Israel had agreed to await the outcome of tightened sanctions against Iran, an effort being led by President Barack Obama.

Frankly, I don't expect sanctions to come anytime soon, and if they do, they'll be just as effective as they've been against the North Koreans and Saddam's regime, which is to say that they'll be evaded by those in power and their intentions will continue as before.

269 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:28:27pm

re: #251 elektramourns

Tucker is playing the rightwing game like the best of them. I though the would be more moderate. He shills like the rest.

Can you name just one moderate Republican other than the 2 ladies from Maine?

THERE ARE REPUBLICANS IN MAINE?

270 Locker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:28:29pm

re: #260 SteveB4

I think it was clear that the truther movement was primarily a left-based movement. That doesn't mean that right wing truthers were nonexistent.

I think it was clear that the truther movement was primarily a libertarian movement. Now personally I see the libertarians aligned a lot more with the right than with the left but still...

271 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:28:43pm
A white guy, disguised as a a black guy, managed to rip off four banks and a CVS in Ohio before he was caught. No, we're not kidding.

Photos

272 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:28:51pm

re: #263 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I haven't watched Hulu since I got Netflix.

Yeah, I might look into renewing my netflix subscription. I had it a few years ago but never really bothered with mailing discs back and stuff. Now that I have highspeed internet I might give it a go again. I'd definately pay for Netflix over Hulu.

273 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:29:22pm

too much salt leads to hypertension...don't do it

274 Locker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:29:47pm

re: #272 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I might look into renewing my netflix subscription. I had it a few years ago but never really bothered with mailing discs back and stuff. Now that I have highspeed internet I might give it a go again. I'd definately pay for Netflix over Hulu.

Hulu will crash and burn if they make it subscription based. Personal prediction. Same thing would happen if they suddenly charged 9.99 a month to use Facebook.

275 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:29:50pm

Quick, grab for equivalence!!!!! Um... um.... what about truthers!!!! Libruls, all of 'em!!!!

//

Ok seriously, how many truthers were given airtime on major media outlets, compared to birthers. How many truthers remained part of the party apparatus after outing themselves?

276 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:30:03pm

re: #271 Stanley Sea

Stupid criminals always think they're smart.

What a jackass.

277 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:30:08pm

Something for SpaceJesus....

Warning: Video will offend most Christians...

What would Jesus drive/drink/shoot?
[Link: www.facebook.com...]

278 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:30:10pm

re: #266 Walter L. Newton

re: #260 SteveB4


Right... like Alex Jones? You statement was a blanket statement, painting the whole movement as left.

I said it was an embarrassment to the left, which it was. I'm sure if you dug around you could find some lefty/libertarian birthers, yet the birther movement makes the right look bad.

279 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:30:26pm

re: #273 elektramourns

too much salt leads to hypertension...don't do it

no, too much salt exacerbates hypertension. it does not lead to it.

280 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:31:44pm

re: #260 SteveB4

I think it was clear that the truther movement was primarily a left-based movement. That doesn't mean that right wing truthers were nonexistent.

Except that would be an incorrect assumption. Like just about every modern conspiracy theory, trooferism came out of the libertarian-fringe "Patriot Movement" and was embraced after-the-fact by many on the left because they hated GWB and it fit that agenda.

281 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:32:09pm

re: #278 SteveB4

I said it was an embarrassment to the left, which it was. I'm sure if you dug around you could find some lefty/libertarian birthers, yet the birther movement makes the right look bad.

Thought birtherism was birthed by an HRC supporter?

An elaborate Clinton plot against the GOP?

282 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:32:50pm

re: #279 Aceofwhat?

no, too much salt exacerbates hypertension. it does not lead to it.

From what I understand, there is a part of the population for whom salt will lead to it. I think it's around 10% or so.

283 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:32:58pm

re: #272 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I might look into renewing my netflix subscription. I had it a few years ago but never really bothered with mailing discs back and stuff. Now that I have highspeed internet I might give it a go again. I'd definately pay for Netflix over Hulu.

The instant play feature is what finally got me to subscribe. They also got a deal where I can queue movies up and the kids can access them on their Wii, so that can watch the silly kids movies at the same time I can watch what I like on my PC.

284 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:33:09pm

re: #261 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Actually, that was an artificial memory created to placate her. In actuality, she's encased in a metal tomb and her brain is being used to house the Borg Queens MP3 collection of Abba and Bay City Roller songs.

Torture of the worst kind.

285 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:33:13pm

re: #280 ArchangelMichael

re: #260 SteveB4


Except that would be an incorrect assumption. Like just about every modern conspiracy theory, trooferism came out of the libertarian-fringe "Patriot Movement" and was embraced after-the-fact by many on the left because they hated GWB and it fit that agenda.

You may be right. I don't think that changes whether it made the left/anti-Bush/anti-war crowd look bad. It did, fair or not.

286 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:35:31pm

re: #268 lawhawk

VP Biden, appearing on The View, says that everyone, including PM Netenyahu, knows that we need to impose UN sanctions on Iran, and that they should be coming by the end of this month or next.

Frankly, I don't expect sanctions to come anytime soon, and if they do, they'll be just as effective as they've been against the North Koreans and Saddam's regime, which is to say that they'll be evaded by those in power and their intentions will continue as before.

You'll just have to wait a little bit longer for your war. The adults are in charge, and they're focusing on avoiding armed conflict rather than encouraging it.
/- sort of

287 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:35:58pm

re: #282 cliffster

From what I understand, there is a part of the population for whom salt will lead to it. I think it's around 10% or so.

actually, it might be closer to 15%, but still...

then again, for 100% of the population, a terrible diet and no exercise will lead to bad health. why not start there?

288 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:36:24pm

re: #259 Locker

Oh yea a "certain person" was just bitching about the salt limit and the "nanny state" yesterday. Reaction as predicted.

"Ah'm a gonna' go out back to eat me a big bag of salt before my head assplodes an' I say sumthin'."

289 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:36:30pm

re: #286 darthstar

You'll just have to wait a little bit longer for your war. The adults are in charge, and they're focusing on avoiding delaying armed conflict rather than encouraging it.
/- sort of

290 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:37:03pm

re: #289 Guanxi88

As long as they can keep delaying it.

291 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:37:20pm

re: #287 Aceofwhat?

actually, it might be closer to 15%, but still...

then again, for 100% of the population, a terrible diet and no exercise will lead to bad health. why not start there?

there is quite a bit of low-hanging fruit right now

292 Lidane  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:37:36pm

re: #263 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I haven't watched Hulu since I got Netflix.

Between being able to stream Netflix through my XBox 360 and having an Apple TV, I haven't even gone to Hulu's site in ages. And I haven't paid a late fee in years. It's awesome.

293 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:37:43pm

re: #130 elektramourns

Welcome!

294 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:37:44pm

according to someone named rainmaker on thedailycaller, global warming is not a science but a scam of political expectations, another way to soak taxpayers for wealth redistribution...


good grief....then he ends with "burn baby burn"
:-(

295 Locker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:38:05pm

American Family Association: Government is more dangerous than al Qaeda, Tim McVeigh’s terrorism


The American Family Association, a powerful Christian hate group known for its homophobia and grassroots lobbying campaigns, used the anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing on Monday to declare that “government” is “a larger, more insidious threat to America” than terrorists like Timothy McVeigh or al Qaeda:

If a radical homegrown terrorist group attacked the United States, following after the example of Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City, it would be horrible, outrageous. If Al Qaeda managed to attack us again, killing thousands of people, the nation would be devastated, saddened and enraged. However neither of these terrible events would affect the existence of America. Big government, on the other hand, is set on destroying the individual on which America is built. [...] Radical anti-government groups are not taxing Americans into oblivion, running $1 trillion deficits as far as the eye can see, or forcing others to acquiesce to their whims on healthcare; however, big government is guilty of all of the above.

296 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:38:18pm

re: #290 darthstar

As long as they can keep delaying it.

I'll give you that, but I tell you, the thing looks to be inevitable, and the longer it's delayed, the worse it will be.

297 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:39:22pm

re: #267 Aceofwhat?

i'd prefer to make that choice on my own, since I and millions of others like me who don't have hypertension are at no risk of anything.

science isn't just for earth day...

Interesting 'choice'. You want companies to be able to routinely add potentially harmful amounts of salt to your food so you have the 'choice' to make all kinds of efforts to avoid it.

298 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:40:20pm

re: #296 Guanxi88

I'll give you that, but I tell you, the thing looks to be inevitable, and the longer it's delayed, the worse it will be.

I'm not so sure about that. I prefer when calmer heads prevail. We have no idea what kind of negotiations are going on with Iran right now. As long as we can keep someone from striking yet another match to the powder-keg that is the Middle East, then there's hope that we won't have to watch thousands of innocent people die in a big bloodbath.

299 3eff Jeff  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:40:26pm

re: #292 Lidane

Between being able to stream Netflix through my XBox 360 and having an Apple TV, I haven't even gone to Hulu's site in ages. And I haven't paid a late fee in years. It's awesome.

I've got a TiVoHD (with lifetime! I used to work there). I still use Hulu, but only for catching stuff that isn't out on DVD yet (I'm a commie who doesn't get cable--the TiVo is a PBS cache which also records Lost OTA, don't say anything! I haven't watched this week's episode!). The TiVo box makes the Netflix instant actually interesting.

300 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:40:41pm

re: #262 Fozzie Bear

RINO!!!

//

you joke, but i feel that way sometimes...

301 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:40:46pm

re: #297 Jimmah

Interesting 'choice'. You want companies to be able to routinely add potentially harmful amounts of salt to your food so you have the 'choice' to make all kinds of efforts to avoid it.

It's called freedom. A lot of people don't want to be told what to do. It's not that weird a concept.

302 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:40:49pm

re: #280 ArchangelMichael

Except that would be an incorrect assumption. Like just about every modern conspiracy theory, trooferism came out of the libertarian-fringe "Patriot Movement" and was embraced after-the-fact by many on the left because they hated GWB and it fit that agenda.

Jailed creationist quack Kent Hovind was an early proponent of 9-11 trooferism, though the article laying out his "theory" has been deleted from his website. It is still documented at several critical thinking sites and in the archives of his radio show.

303 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:40:54pm

uncontrolled hypertension may lead to end-organ damage such as hypertensive cardiovascular disease

304 Locker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:41:42pm

re: #301 cliffster

It's called freedom. A lot of people don't want to be told what to do. It's not that weird a concept.

You can't tell me not to poison people with salt! It's called freedom!

305 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:41:46pm

re: #297 Jimmah

Interesting 'choice'. You want companies to be able to routinely add potentially harmful amounts of salt to your food so you have the 'choice' to make all kinds of efforts to avoid it.

One quote that sticks with me is that "the salt that we pour out of our salt shakers is not the problem: it is the salt that is already in our food."

306 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:42:02pm

re: #299 3eff Jeff

I've got a TiVoHD (with lifetime! I used to work there). I still use Hulu, but only for catching stuff that isn't out on DVD yet (I'm a commie who doesn't get cable--the TiVo is a PBS cache which also records Lost OTA, don't say anything! I haven't watched this week's episode!). The TiVo box makes the Netflix instant actually interesting.

Summary of the last Tuesdays episode... "what the fuck was that about"

307 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:42:05pm

Well, once I got past the whole burning out my eye thing, my mexican-asian fusion cooking went really well.

308 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:42:10pm

re: #302 shiplord kirel

re: #280 ArchangelMichael


Jailed creationist quack Kent Hovind was an early proponent of 9-11 trooferism, though the article laying out his "theory" has been deleted from his website. It is still documented at several critical thinking sites and in the archives of his radio show.

"embraced by many on the left" strikes me as an important part of the original post. It was.

309 3eff Jeff  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:42:17pm

re: #301 cliffster

It's called freedom. A lot of people don't want to be told what to do. It's not that weird a concept.

It really isn't. At least where I am, it isn't that hard to avoid lots of salt. Mostly, it involves cooking for myself.

310 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:42:52pm

re: #304 Locker

You can't tell me not to poison people with salt! It's called freedom!

Like I said earlier - taking responsibility. It's on the label, if you don't want it, don't buy it.

311 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:43:20pm

re: #297 Jimmah

Interesting 'choice'. You want companies to be able to routinely add potentially harmful amounts of salt to your food so you have the 'choice' to make all kinds of efforts to avoid it.

Potentially harmful to...people with hypertension who should (and can, btw) be choosing low-sodium foods?

Because it's not potentially harmful to me, or the majority of human beings who aren't hypertensive.

Science is fun!

312 3eff Jeff  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:43:24pm

re: #306 Walter L. Newton

Summary of the last Tuesdays episode... "what the fuck was that about"

Awesome. I'm sure that's the Mathemetician's Summary: technically correct, but not at all helpful.

313 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:43:30pm

re: #301 cliffster

It's called freedom. A lot of people don't want to be told what to do. It's not that weird a concept.

ROFL

Oh wait... you were serious.

314 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:43:52pm

re: #301 cliffster

It's called freedom. A lot of people don't want to be told what to do. It's not that weird a concept.

People are told what they can and can't do all the time, and this applies in all sorts of ways to food production. It's to prevent needless harm, and it's called the law. It's not that weird a concept.

315 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:44:03pm

re: #251 elektramourns
If you would move your center line denoting moderate to the actual center, and off of hard left, it might easier for you to spot a few. Both my senators (TN) are Republican, neither is popularly thought of as a wingnut .

316 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:44:38pm

re: #303 elektramourns

uncontrolled hypertension may lead to end-organ damage such as hypertensive cardiovascular disease

most of us do not have uncontrolled hypertension. and can't we already tell how much sodium is in our groceries when we buy them?

(hint...it's rhetorical...)

317 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:44:40pm

Well, I'm sure the wingers will still manage to find something in this to scream about:

White House to fight to preserve National Day of Prayer

The Obama administration will fight to preserve the law establishing an annual National Day of Prayer, the Justice Department confirmed Thursday.

A federal judge declared the law unconstitutional last week.

The Justice Department's official filing of a "notice to appeal" Thursday came as no surprise, after White House spokesman Matt Lehrich said following the ruling that President Obama intends to recognize this year's National Day of Prayer, which is May 6.

318 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:45:17pm

re: #314 Jimmah

People are told what they can and can't do all the time, and this applies in all sorts of ways to food production. It's to prevent needless harm, and it's called the law. It's not that weird a concept.

Let's make a law against chocolate. Why not? People are told what they can and can't do all the time. It's called the law.

319 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:45:27pm

re: #304 Locker

You can't tell me not to poison people with salt! It's called freedom!

Salt is poison?

320 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:46:05pm

FRREEEEEEDOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!

*shake* *shake* *shake*

321 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:46:10pm

re: #317 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And another issue I disagree with Obama deeply on.

Oh well, at least he met with atheists once.

322 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:46:25pm

how dare u guys have a salt or food discussion without Martha Stewart?

323 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:46:29pm

re: #314 Jimmah

People are told what they can and can't do all the time, and this applies in all sorts of ways to food production. It's to prevent needless harm, and it's called the law. It's not that weird a concept.

Prevent needless harm to WHO?

You'll prevent more needless harm by banning sugar. What is this odd unscientific fascination with salt?

324 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:46:58pm

re: #318 cliffster

Prove its harmful enough, and sure :p

to flip it, Mothers should be allowed to use Thalidomide! Its such a good anti-anxiety agent!

325 YoungLibertarian93  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:47:05pm

Hi.

Here's an upding.

Link, Link, downding, Lizard!

326 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:47:35pm

re: #321 Obdicut

Pure politics really. Its not worth the flak he'd get for NOT fighting it.

327 3eff Jeff  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:47:40pm

re: #314 Jimmah

People are told what they can and can't do all the time, and this applies in all sorts of ways to food production. It's to prevent needless harm, and it's called the law. It's not that weird a concept.

But the stuff isn't toxic, and anything that makes it through congress won't actually make a huge difference. The pre-pack food we're talking about is so antithetical to good health that you cannot accomplish what you want without banning it. And there is always a choice. Good information and good food is out there. It's more time consuming and more expensive, but that is the trade-off.

328 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:48:02pm

re: #325 YoungLibertarian93

Hello friend, welcome to LGF!!

329 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:48:03pm

re: #298 darthstar

There you go off into the wishful thinking of pseudoreality. Let's just ignore the reality of the Iranian regime shall we?

Calmer heads prevail among who? The Iranians? They aren't going to stop their interests in nuclear weapons. They haven't built a massive infrastructure just to give it up now. They've gotten sweetheart offers from the Russians and French to get enriched uranium if they'd give up the enrichment process themselves but chose not to - that speaks volumes about their intentions.

As for keeping the powder keg of the Middle East under wraps - taking out threats like a nuclear weapons complex before it can start churning out nukes is preferable to letting the Iranian regime have the nukes. And as for striking the match, you're pretty keen on stopping Israel from doing what it must to preserve its security, but ignore the larger threat that Iran presents to the entire region (to say nothing of US security interests).

The match has already been lit. The only question is how long the fuse is.

How can the situation change? A different regime in place in Tehran for starters (although the Mousavi opposition is also keen on keeping Iran's nuclear ambitions going).

330 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:48:10pm

re: #305 ralphieboy

One quote that sticks with me is that "the salt that we pour out of our salt shakers is not the problem: it is the salt that is already in our food."

Yep. I love my salt shaker, and use it very liberally on certain things, but I'd rather not be taking in large amounts in foods where it's presence is not in any way obvious.

331 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:48:21pm

re: #316 Aceofwhat?

But that would require that you actually read a label.//
Even though they are usually posted in two languages now, that still imposes an undue burden on the consumer. Here's the NYT lede:
'Women, children, non-citizens hardest hit'.

332 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:48:24pm

re: #314 Jimmah

People are told what they can and can't do all the time, and this applies in all sorts of ways to food production. It's to prevent needless harm, and it's called the law. It's not that weird a concept.

I think it may have more to do with some people don't want to be told what they have to do with their body.

333 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:48:33pm

re: #324 windsagio

Prove its harmful enough, and sure :p

to flip it, Mothers should be allowed to use Thalidomide! Its such a good anti-anxiety agent!

except if it's salt. then, apparently, proof of its harm is unnecessary...

334 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:49:07pm

re: #328 windsagio

Think that's a returning sock that's been booted before iirc. Might be mistaken. It's a glutton for punishment.

335 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:49:15pm

re: #325 YoungLibertarian93

Hi.

Here's an upding.

Link, Link, downding, Lizard!

My spider sense is tingling in all kinds of ways. There's just something about that nick...

336 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:49:26pm

re: #325 YoungLibertarian93

Hi.

Here's an upding.

Link, Link, downding, Lizard!

Interesting screen name.

337 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:49:43pm

re: #325 YoungLibertarian93

Really?!? Are you trying for your 100th ban or some shit?

Are you obsessed?

338 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:49:45pm

re: #330 Jimmah

Yep. I love my salt shaker, and use it very liberally on certain things, but I'd rather not be taking in large amounts in foods where it's presence is not in any way obvious.

And you're unable to do that now because...?

339 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:49:52pm

re: #333 Aceofwhat?

To be honest I don't wanna commit to that part until I know what level of salt would actually be prohibited. Its well known that a LOT of it is harmful. I suspect that you guys are talking about different things.

340 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:49:57pm

re: #322 elektramourns

Or Lidia Bastianich, who never prepares a meal without an (un)healthy dose of salt, regardless of what's being prepared.

341 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:50:27pm

re: #334 Thanos

I suspect I mihgt know that >>

342 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:50:39pm

re: #335 Jimmah

My spider sense is tingling in all kinds of ways. There's just something about that nick...

it's either a really, really observant reader turned newbie or a really persistent idiot...either way, this is going to be entertaining...

343 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:50:56pm

Labeling requirements != an impingement on anybody's freedom. I will relentlessly mock anyone who says otherwise.

344 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:51:27pm

re: #339 windsagio

To be honest I don't wanna commit to that part until I know what level of salt would actually be prohibited. Its well known that a LOT of it is harmful. I suspect that you guys are talking about different things.

incorrect statement.

therein lies the rub.

(heh)

345 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:51:27pm

re: #325 YoungLibertarian93

YoungLibertarian93
This user is blocked.

Registered since: Apr 22, 2010 at 12:45 pm
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

That didn't take long.

346 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:51:36pm

re: #343 Fozzie Bear

Labeling requirements != an impingement on anybody's freedom. I will relentlessly mock anyone who says otherwise.

Banning something != Labeling requirements either.

347 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:51:42pm

re: #343 Fozzie Bear

I like calorie count laws for instance. Except I'm not used to them, Its embarassing to go into like a Quiznos in Seattle, and be outraged that the sandwiches are so expensive, and then realise thats the Cal count.

348 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:52:00pm

re: #337 ArchangelMichael

Really?!? Are you trying for your 100th ban or some shit?

Are you obsessed?

that was YL92, IIRC. this one...well...we'll see!

349 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:52:15pm

but I am not being totally truthful...i love kosher, sea, and fancy salts...the big clunks taste great on filets.

I think it may be hard to poison with salt which would cause I think hypernatremia? and so u get pumped out and I think it would taste too awful to eat before it did damage

350 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:52:18pm

re: #318 cliffster

Oh, you're thinking too small. Tax the heck out of sugar. After all, it contributes to obesity, which leads to hypertension. ////

351 Buck  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:52:29pm

re: #174 Lidane

And the ultimate 9/11 Truther nutbar, Alex Jones, is now loved and fellated on the right and by Fox News as a legitimate source.

Well, in my opinion, the ultimate 9/11 truther is Dylan Avery. He even has a history of making an appearance here before the Loose Change fame.

352 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:52:30pm

Can I have a link to something that establishes there is a law banning salt? Please forgive my skepticism, but this sounds like ODS to me, frankly.

353 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:52:49pm

re: #344 Aceofwhat?

+ for the pun, but you're wrong :P

If all else fails, we can get into the definition of 'a lot'.

354 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:52:51pm

re: #342 Aceofwhat?

I dunno, I'm bored already.

So I'll post this instead:

Warning: Potentially offensive, but no more so than South Park.

The true history of JFK:

355 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:52:52pm

re: #347 windsagio

I like calorie count laws for instance. Except I'm not used to them, Its embarassing to go into like a Quiznos in Seattle, and be outraged that the sandwiches are so expensive, and then realise thats the Cal count.

i'm all for labeling.

As the Archangel attempted to say, labeling > banning...that is, labeling ≠ banning.

356 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:52:58pm

re: #307 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, once I got past the whole burning out my eye thing, my mexican-asian fusion cooking went really well.

There used to be a mexican/Chinese drive-in restaurant in Payson Arizona named Pedro Wongs. That simply stemmed from a time when the town was too small to support an eintre Mexican restaurant and a Chinese one at the same time.

Although I hear that there are now a number of Mexican-Asian fusion restaurants these days.

357 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:53:35pm

re: #349 elektramourns

but I am not being totally truthful...i love kosher, sea, and fancy salts...the big clunks taste great on filets.

I think it may be hard to poison with salt which would cause I think hypernatremia? and so u get pumped out and I think it would taste too awful to eat before it did damage

agree with you there-

358 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:53:40pm

FDA may set standards for salt intake, might check CDC in Atlanta or a very good university site

359 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:53:52pm

re: #351 Buck

Well, in my opinion, the ultimate 9/11 truther is Dylan Avery. He even has a history of making an appearance here before the Loose Change fame.

Except there is proof that Dylan Avery doesn't actually believe the shit that he's shoveling and is just trying to make money. Alex Jones and his legion of kooks... not so much.

360 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:54:34pm

re: #328 windsagio

Hello friend, welcome to LGF!!

Wow

361 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:54:41pm

re: #356 ralphieboy

There used to be a mexican/Chinese drive-in restaurant in Payson Arizona named Pedro Wongs. That simply stemmed from a time when the town was too small to support an eintre Mexican restaurant and a Chinese one at the same time.

Although I hear that there are now a number of Mexican-Asian fusion restaurants these days.

There's one in San Marcos, just up the road a ways from my new GHQ:

Japaniero - a Japanese steak and sushi place with a Mexican flair. Plenty of items from both types, a few interesting, if ill-advised, fusions, as well on the menu.

362 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:54:48pm

re: #344 Aceofwhat?

Seriously, anybody link to wiki yet?

Evidence supports the link between excess salt consumption and a number of conditions including[44]:

* Heartburn.[45]
* Osteoporosis: One report shows that a high salt diet does reduce bone density in women.[46] Yet "While high salt intakes have been associated with detrimental effects on bone health, there are insufficient data to draw firm conclusions."[47]
* Gastric cancer (stomach cancer) is associated with high levels of sodium, "but the evidence does not generally relate to foods typically consumed in the UK."[48] However, in Japan, salt consumption is higher.[49]
* Hypertension (high blood pressure): "Since 1994, the evidence of an association between dietary salt intakes and blood pressure has increased. The data have been consistent in various study populations and across the age range in adults."[47] A large scale study from 2007 has shown that people with high-normal blood pressure who significantly reduced the amount of salt in their diet decreased their chances of developing cardiovascular disease by 25% over the following 10 to 15 years. Their risk of dying from cardiovascular disease decreased by 20%.[50]
* Left ventricular hypertrophy (cardiac enlargement): "Evidence suggests that high salt intake causes left ventricular hypertrophy, a strong risk factor for cardiovascular disease, independently of blood pressure effects."[47] "…there is accumulating evidence that high salt intake predicts left ventricular hypertrophy."[51] Excessive salt (sodium) intake, combined with an inadequate intake of water, can cause hypernatremia. It can exacerbate renal disease.[40]
* Edema (BE: oedema): A decrease in salt intake has been suggested to treat edema (fluid retention).[40][52]
* Duodenal ulcers and gastric ulcers[53]
* Death: Ingestion of large amounts of salt in a short time (about 1 g per kg of body weight)[54] can be fatal. Salt solutions have been used in ancient China as a method of suicide (especially by the nobility, since salt was quite valuable). Deaths have also resulted from attempted use of salt solutions as emetics, forced salt intake, and accidental confusion of salt with sugar in child food.[55]


lol@taking 1g per Kilo of body weight hto >>

363 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:54:50pm

re: #352 Fozzie Bear

Can I have a link to something that establishes there is a law banning salt? Please forgive my skepticism, but this sounds like ODS to me, frankly.

there is a serious attempt underway in NY.

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

364 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:55:20pm

re: #360 prairiefire

geeze, it was a joke :p Just piling on and calling him a troll fills me with ennui.

365 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:55:48pm

re: #308 SteveB4

"embraced by many on the left" strikes me as an important part of the original post. It was.

"Primarily a movement of the left" in the follow-up #260 is more important, since that is what Michael was addressing in his #281. Nobody has denied that there are many, many leftist troofers, but the initial impetus came from the ready-made world of commercial conspiracy theories, where people like Hovind, Alex Jones, and the detestable neo-nazi Carol Valentine have been dominant for many years. It is hard to define these kooks in conventional political terms, but they are certainly not leftists.

366 steve_davis  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:56:02pm

re: #20 beekiller

This comment at Hot Air made me laugh.
That’s right, give dems more ammo of GOP wackiness for their campaign ads. Arizona goes birther, Georgia bans chips being implanted in booties and bartering with chickens. Maybe next week one of our Senators will announce he is really an alien from another planet and announce it on CSPAN.

please God, let it be Mitch McConnell. It's either an alien wearing a really bad mask, or the man was horribly burned and they grafted the skin onto his face from his ass, using the sphincter as a mouth and pushing some cartilage into his penis to provide a reasonable approximation of a nose.

367 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:56:12pm

re: #334 Thanos

Think that's a returning sock that's been booted before iirc. Might be mistaken. It's a glutton for punishment.

Blocked within 2 minutes of registering!
Stinky is FAST!

368 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:56:30pm

re: #367 Floral Giraffe

There might be a script for that name >

369 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:56:30pm

re: #361 Guanxi88

There's one in San Marcos, just up the road a ways from my new GHQ:

Japaniero - a Japanese steak and sushi place with a Mexican flair. Plenty of items from both types, a few interesting, if ill-advised, fusions, as well on the menu.

Damn I thought I had an original idea... a Mexican Chinese restaurant. Kung Pao Pollo Asado would have been the main plate.

370 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:56:49pm

re: #356 ralphieboy

There used to be a mexican/Chinese drive-in restaurant in Payson Arizona named Pedro Wongs. That simply stemmed from a time when the town was too small to support an eintre Mexican restaurant and a Chinese one at the same time.

Although I hear that there are now a number of Mexican-Asian fusion restaurants these days.

I reasoned that since I love kimchee, and I love ramen noodles, and I love carnitas, and I happen to have all three available, what would happen if I mix them. Results: FUCKING AWESOME.

I'm now experimenting with how far I can take it. Todays experiment involved adding chipotle powder and some minced cilantro to the equation.

371 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:56:53pm

re: #363 Aceofwhat?

there is a serious attempt underway in NY.

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

I see. I'm going to go on the record and say that there is no freaking way this will pass, and if by some absurd chance it does, it will be struck down, and rapidly.

372 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:57:00pm

sugar will get to the shitlist faster than salt IMO...you could regulate but OMG what would those flying monkeys on the right think about more god dayummed regulation !!??

Sugar is a pretty bad ass.

373 Guanxi88  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:57:07pm

re: #364 windsagio

geeze, it was a joke :p Just piling on and calling him a troll fills me with ennui.

374 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:57:45pm

re: #332 Walter L. Newton

I think it may have more to do with some people don't want to be told what they have to do with their body.

Relax. No one is being told they can't eat lethal doses of salt if that's what they really want to do. The tree of liberty is quite safe.

But if they do, it should be a conscious choice, not something inadvertent.

I wonder how many lives that are currently ended by issues relating to excessive salt intake would be saved by a bit of regulation. O course, we'd have to balance that against the awful loss of personal freedom on the part of the guys in those companies who decide to add these huge amounts of salt...

375 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:57:56pm

re: #352 Fozzie Bear

No, there have been legislative and administrative proposals to limit salt in prepared food and to even ban its use in restaurants. That's courtesy of NYS Democrat Felix Ortiz. The text of the bill is here. That effort follows a push by NYC Mayor Bloomberg to limit salt in restaurants and prepared foods.

Meanwhile, the FDA is considering a proposal to limit salt in prepared foods over time by setting limits that are slowly decreased over time.

376 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:57:58pm

re: #370 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I reasoned that since I love kimchee, and I love ramen noodles, and I love carnitas, and I happen to have all three available, what would happen if I mix them. Results: FUCKING AWESOME.

I'm now experimenting with how far I can take it. Todays experiment involved adding chipotle powder and some minced cilantro to the equation.


Chiles, garlic, cilantro: the two styles have so much in common that it is easy to find an overlap

377 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:58:50pm

re: #364 windsagio

geeze, it was a joke :p Just piling on and calling him a troll fills me with ennui.

No, I know. You are very magnanimous!

378 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:58:56pm

re: #374 Jimmah

hehe, companies should have the freedom to do whatever they want!

More civil rights for Corporations! They should go on strike >>

379 3eff Jeff  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:59:10pm

re: #366 steve_davis

please God, let it be Mitch McConnell. It's either an alien wearing a really bad mask, or the man was horribly burned and they grafted the skin onto his face from his ass, using the sphincter as a mouth and pushing some cartilage into his penis to provide a reasonable approximation of a nose.

I know he's not a senator, but really, it has to be Boehner. How else do you explain the fake tan?

380 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:59:49pm

re: #362 windsagio

Seriously, anybody link to wiki yet?

lol@taking 1g per Kilo of body weight hto >>

ok, i admit i'm for banning amounts approaching 1g/Kg of body weight;)

381 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 12:59:53pm

re: #374 Jimmah

Relax. No one is being told they can't eat lethal doses of salt if that's what they really want to do. The tree of liberty is quite safe.

But if they do, it should be a conscious choice, not something inadvertent.

I wonder how many lives that are currently ended by issues relating to excessive salt intake would be saved by a bit of regulation. O course, we'd have to balance that against the awful loss of personal freedom on the part of the guys in those companies who decide to add these huge amounts of salt...

Jimmah... I'm relaxed, just making an observation.

382 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:00:06pm

those jowls on McConnell look like adipose tissue from cheezy wrinkled ass cheeks

383 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:00:09pm

re: #378 windsagio

hehe, companies should have the freedom to do whatever they want!

More civil rights for Corporations! They should go on strike >>

If corporations have all the rights of individuals, can they also be given the death penalty for commiting murder?

384 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:00:15pm

I still don't see why anyone cares. Are they banning the purchase and ownership of salt shakers as well?

When salt is banned, only criminals will have salt.
Keep your government hands off my Morton's!
You know, I hear communists don't like salt.

//

385 dugmartsch  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:00:36pm

48% of the American voting population can't be wrong!

Wait...

386 Racer X  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:01:05pm

I recently started taking a diuretic and have reduced my salt intake. My freaking kidneys hurt. Is that bad?

Not kidding.

387 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:01:23pm

re: #372 elektramourns

sugar will get to the shitlist faster than salt IMO...you could regulate but OMG what would those flying monkeys on the right think about more god dayummed regulation !!??

Sugar is a pretty bad ass.

you lost me there.

388 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:01:26pm

re: #380 Aceofwhat?

See I'd like to think that that's what we're talking about. Having agreed that there's some level that's excessive, what do we do with that information?

To be honest I think that kind of regulation is a hopeless quagmire, but the "OH NO FREEDOMS!!" argument leaves me really cold.

389 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:01:28pm

re: #384 Fozzie Bear

Have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water?

/

390 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:01:48pm

re: #385 dugmartsch

wait, wut?

391 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:01:52pm

and Krauthammer looks like he passed through a meatgrinder following failed surgery

392 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:01:57pm

re: #329 lawhawk

Let's make a deal. I'll continue to argue against war, and you can continue to call me naive. War doesn't give me a hard-on. Getting called naive for standing against it is a small price to pay.

And I understand your position. When Iran gets attacked, it will be their own fault. Gotcha.

393 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:02:18pm

I like "Mitch lookslikemygrandma "McConnell."

394 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:02:36pm

re: #375 lawhawk

No, there have been legislative and administrative proposals to limit salt in prepared food and to even ban its use in restaurants. That's courtesy of NYS Democrat Felix Ortiz. The text of the bill is here. That effort follows a push by NYC Mayor Bloomberg to limit salt in restaurants and prepared foods.

Meanwhile, the FDA is considering a proposal to limit salt in prepared foods over time by setting limits that are slowly decreased over time.

Cool! That means all those canned pork and beans people stashed for Y2K can become a valuable investment.
"Gold? Forget about it! You can't eat gold! Put your money in our genuine, certified pre-Obama foodstuffs, with plenty of natural salt and life-sustaining preservatives!"

395 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:03:08pm

re: #391 elektramourns

and Krauthammer looks like he passed through a meatgrinder following failed surgery

It could have to do the fact that he spends all his waking hours in a wheelchair. He's crippled.

396 freetoken  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:03:19pm

re: #394 shiplord kirel

BUY GOLD SEEDS PORK AND BEANS!!

397 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:03:22pm

re: #361 Guanxi88

There's one in San Marcos, just up the road a ways from my new GHQ:

Japaniero - a Japanese steak and sushi place with a Mexican flair. Plenty of items from both types, a few interesting, if ill-advised, fusions, as well on the menu.

I heard the black bean sushi didn't go over well...

// (j/k)

398 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:03:31pm

re: #392 darthstar

I like how the one with the simplistic 'no consequences' view of attacking people and 'omg they're all suicidal wackos!' bias gets to call people that think there might be more complexity naive.

399 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:03:32pm

re: #349 elektramourns
Hyponatremia from too little sodium.. usually when one is dehydrated, is much more common, and more dangerous. Leads to heart irregularity and you can die.
Actually, one's susceptibility to salt depends on any number of factors, chiefly a genetic component that has a lot to do with the permeability of one's blood vessels, involves osmosis, the renal-sodium dopamine link, a bunch of chemistry, and is way above most people's pay grades, mine included. African Americans and Iranians are generally more susceptible to problems from sodium than most other ethnic groups. Italians and Thais seem least affected.

400 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:03:39pm

if u like salt, come south for pickled pigs lips,vienna sausages, and chitlings--pig innards

401 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:03:50pm

re: #363 Aceofwhat?

there is a serious attempt underway in NY.

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

One that has no chance of passing, so I'm not sure it can be called a "serious" effort. More like a lone Moonbat tilting at windmills...

402 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:04:04pm

re: #389 ArchangelMichael

Have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water?

/

It's obviously all part of the communist plot to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids.

Somebody get me a rainwater and grain alcohol, stat!!!

403 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:04:08pm

re: #394 shiplord kirel

See that's freakin' genius!

404 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:04:20pm

re: #391 elektramourns

and Krauthammer looks like he passed through a meatgrinder following failed surgery

And all in all, considering the man is crippled, in a wheelchair for life, makes you're comment a fucking sick piece of crap.

Asshole.

405 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:04:39pm

re: #398 windsagio

I like how the one with the simplistic 'no consequences' view of attacking people and 'omg they're all suicidal wackos!' bias gets to call people that think there might be more complexity naive.

It's like trying to convince a teabagger that Obama was born in the United States.

Shit...I'm four minutes late for a meeting.

406 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:04:42pm

re: #399 tradewind

Somebody else went to wiki too :D

407 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:04:56pm

re: #405 darthstar

Run! Run like the wind!

408 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:05:12pm

re: #396 freetoken

BUY GOLD SEEDS PORK AND BEANS!!

I don't know what their shelf-life is, but I suspect it's nearly as good as gold.

409 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:05:23pm

re: #362 windsagio
Don't do wiki for accurate medical information... anyone can cite any study.
Use peer-reviewed journals or CDC,NIH, JAMA, etc.

410 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:05:36pm

re: #374 Jimmah

I wonder how many lives that are currently ended by issues relating to excessive salt intake would be saved by a bit of regulation. O course, we'd have to balance that against the awful loss of personal freedom on the part of the guys in those companies who decide to add these huge amounts of salt...

So just to make sure i'm clear.

We need regulations so that a certain subgroup of people with a preexisting condition won't scoot right on past an ingredient they ought to be concerned about.

411 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:05:51pm

re: #409 tradewind

sorry sorry, replace 'wiki' with 'google'.

412 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:06:24pm

sorry...i just hate his politics so much

413 dugmartsch  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:06:29pm

re: #390 windsagio

wait, wut?

[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Sorry, 46%

414 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:06:57pm

re: #391 elektramourns
I'd like to see you try completing med school and internship/residency while paralyzed from the neck down following a diving accident.
No, I really wouldn't. But I bet you wouldn't appreciate the comments on your appearance.

415 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:07:00pm

re: #410 Aceofwhat?

So just to make sure i'm clear.

We need regulations so that a certain subgroup of people with a preexisting condition won't scoot right on past an ingredient they ought to be concerned about.

It's on the label. If you don't like the amount of salt, then don't buy it. There's no sensible argument, so instead we're making jokes about communism.

416 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:07:46pm

re: #388 windsagio

See I'd like to think that that's what we're talking about. Having agreed that there's some level that's excessive, what do we do with that information?

To be honest I think that kind of regulation is a hopeless quagmire, but the "OH NO FREEDOMS!!" argument leaves me really cold.

No, we're talking about amounts that are healthy for healthy people but unhealthy for unhealthy people. You know...the people who oughta be worried about everything they put in their mouths...

It's not "OH NO FREDUMS/REGULASHUNS". It's "Science is good...well...unless it doesn't fit our meme..."

417 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:07:57pm

re: #413 dugmartsch

I see polls like that and then think of the landline poll bias and some other things, and then I pray they have a huge effect.

418 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:08:58pm

re: #412 elektramourns

sorry...i just hate his politics so much

So, you hate his politics and that gives you the right to make fun of the way he looks? Love all that liberal "can't we all get along" love just bubbling out of you. But you don't care. do you?

"Suffering a paralyzing diving accident in his first year of medical school,[5] he was hospitalized for a year, during which time he continued his medical studies"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

419 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:08:59pm

re: #381 Walter L. Newton

Jimmah... I'm relaxed, just making an observation.

I disagree.

420 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:09:08pm

re: #404 Walter L. Newton

And all in all, considering the man is crippled, in a wheelchair for life, makes you're comment a fucking sick piece of crap.

Asshole.

Sure, if they knew he was crippled. How common do you think this knowledge is? I skimmed his wiki entry and couldn't find it.

421 elektramourns  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:09:15pm

OK I get it I am sorry

Later guys

422 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:09:18pm

re: #416 Aceofwhat?

More could be unneccesary and somewhat unhealthy tho'. What's the harm really of limiting levels to some degree? We get way more salt than we need to.

I just don't understand why this is an outrage.

423 3eff Jeff  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:09:23pm

re: #415 cliffster

It's on the label. If you don't like the amount of salt, then don't buy it. There's no sensible argument, so instead we're making jokes about communism.

Yeah, pretty much. And as I keep saying, you can protect your purity of essence in this country. You may end up running into some libruls at the Hippiemart and farmer's market, but that's the price of freedom. I manage.

424 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:09:42pm

re: #418 Walter L. Newton

Apology wasn't good enough? >>

425 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:10:06pm

re: #365 shiplord kirel

re: #308 SteveB4


"Primarily a movement of the left" in the follow-up #260 is more important, since that is what Michael was addressing in his #281. Nobody has denied that there are many, many leftist troofers, but the initial impetus came from the ready-made world of commercial conspiracy theories, where people like Hovind, Alex Jones, and the detestable neo-nazi Carol Valentine have been dominant for many years. It is hard to define these kooks in conventional political terms, but they are certainly not leftists.

I guess my initial point was that the 'dumbth' can be found across the political spectrum. Just as Bush had to contend with truthers, now Obama deals with birthers. Whether these conspiracy theories are technically born among fringe types or libertarians seems beside the point...a disturbingly large number of ideologues on both sides were/are willing to embrace them simply because they cast the opposition in a bad light.

426 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:10:16pm

Here's a link in which I agree with ACORN's Bertha Lewis over the Atlantic Yards project that can now move forward after the last holdout took a $3 million buyout on his apartment (after getting offers for $510k when he bought it at $580k).

The holdout, Daniel Goldstein, had fought the Atlantic Yards project tooth and nail and lost at every turn. Even ACORN ended up dealing with Forest City Ratner who proposed the project because it would expect to create 2,000 affordable housing units (out of about 6,400 planned units). Goldstein ended up gettting a sweet deal for him personally, and managed to delay the project by claiming it would destroy the neighborhood (even as the project was based on covering the Atlantic Yards - a train yard that spans about 22 acres), and not about razing blocks and blocks of housing.

427 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:10:21pm

New York info website:[Link: www.thenewyorker.com...]

It looks like an informative website for all lizards in Manhattan.

428 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:10:21pm

re: #400 elektramourns
Lived here all my life, never had that stuff.
But the barbecue, peaches, and pecan pie are pretty decent.

429 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:10:24pm

re: #421 elektramourns

Don't let htem get to you, its just the group dynamic >>

430 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:10:26pm

re: #401 ausador

One that has no chance of passing, so I'm not sure it can be called a "serious" effort. More like a lone Moonbat tilting at windmills...

see #375. let me know what you think.

431 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:11:07pm

re: #420 JasonA

Sure, if they knew he was crippled. How common do you think this knowledge is? I skimmed his wiki entry and couldn't find it.

Reading is comprehension... sorry, I can't help you with that. So, because you don't know he is crippled from the neck down, that gives you the right to make fun of the way the man physically looks. I see, that's a fucking lame-assed excuse if I ever heard one.

You're putting you foot deep into the shit.

432 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:11:07pm

re: #412 elektramourns

sorry...i just hate his politics so much

oh, sure, that totally explains it. way to keep your views fact-based.

433 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:11:17pm

OT

Know what I hate? When a business says "you've been selected to receive our services free for a ## day trial period at no cost to you" and then tries to skirt the fact that at the end of the time, they're going to start billing you. Had a call like that yesterday and I ended up hanging up on the woman after I told her I wasn't interested and she asked why? "BECAUSE I'M NOT INTERESTED IN IT. CLICK."

434 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:11:18pm

re: #410 Aceofwhat?

So just to make sure i'm clear.

We need regulations so that a certain subgroup of people with a preexisting condition won't scoot right on past an ingredient they ought to be concerned about.

If you think it's only a certain subset of the human population that can be harmed by excessive salt intake, it might be time to brush up on your medical knowledge.

435 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:11:31pm

re: #404 Walter L. Newton

And all in all, considering the man is crippled, in a wheelchair for life, makes you're comment a fucking sick piece of crap.

Asshole.

Demonize! Dehumanize! Degrade! Destroy!

436 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:11:39pm

re: #424 windsagio

Apology wasn't good enough? >>

That wasn't an apology, it was an excuse. And I wouldn't except it from you either.

437 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:11:43pm

re: #420 JasonA

Sure, if they knew he was crippled. How common do you think this knowledge is? I skimmed his wiki entry and couldn't find it.

Okay, I saw the sentence that mentions it. Seriously, I've seen him on shows before and never realized it. He's not Stephen Hawking.

438 Racer X  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:11:57pm

re: #429 windsagio

Don't let htem get to you, its just the group dynamic >>

Which group? There are several here now.

439 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:11:59pm

re: #420 JasonA

Sigh. Just goes to show you what they say about Wiki is right..... reader beware.
You get from it what the last editor wants you to have. Don't bet the farm there.

440 bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:12:27pm

re: #395 Walter L. Newton

It could have to do the fact that he spends all his waking hours in a wheelchair. He's crippled.

Not unlike Locke/Flock.

I've been re-watching Season 1, just watched the "Walkabout" episode that focused on Lock.

I'm seeing many things I missed the first time.

441 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:12:36pm

re: #435 Spare O'Lake

Demonize! Dehumanize! Degrade! Destroy!

You've met my parents, haven't you...

442 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:12:38pm

re: #439 tradewind

Sigh. Just goes to show you what they say about Wiki is right... reader beware.
You get from it what the last editor wants you to have. Don't bet the farm there.

Again, I'm not sure how much research Walter expects people to do before poking fun at a target.

443 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:13:06pm

re: #420 JasonA

Sure, if they knew he was crippled. How common do you think this knowledge is? I skimmed his wiki entry and couldn't find it.

otoh, what redeeming value does a comment like that have in the first place, regardless of a person's physical deformities.

I'm here because this is NOT hot air or Koskidz. I'd like it to stay that way.

444 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:13:14pm

re: #442 JasonA

Again, I'm not sure how much research Walter expects people to do before poking fun at a target.

Perhaps making fun of the way a person looks really isn't a good idea in the first place?

445 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:13:14pm

Mock first, ask questions later, I say.

446 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:13:37pm

re: #440 bagua

Not unlike Locke/Flock.

.... nah, unlike.
He's Dead, Jim.
:)
Man, they did up the ante last Tuesday, didn't they? Getting down to the lick-log.

447 dugmartsch  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:13:44pm

re: #413 dugmartsch

[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Sorry, 46%

Durrr can't read 43. But the majority of Republican's believe that he was born in Kenya (or something) and perpetrated one of the best organized and most successful hoaxes in American history.

448 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:13:44pm

re: #445 Fozzie Bear

Mock first, ask questions later, I say.

I've noticed that

449 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:13:48pm

re: #438 Racer X

Any group. Its the way the net works sometimes, not a side thing :p

The person apologized (twice!) but people love to pile on.

450 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:14:09pm

re: #431 Walter L. Newton

I didn't do it, Walter. I just think calling someone an asshole over it is over the line.

451 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:14:11pm

re: #429 windsagio

Don't let htem get to you, its just the group dynamic >>

Windsagio is correct. Don't let the fact that a number of people may disagree with your comment about Krauthammer, it's not important. You won't learn anything. You won't have to adjust the way you approach your dislike of Krauthammer. You won't have to think at all.

452 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:14:12pm

The part that burns the most is that it was a Democratic delegate for Hillary that started the meme. Now that I said that, it does not at all excuse the wingnuts one jot for taking it, running with it and turning it into a cult. However, it says something about how low the Hillary campaign would stoop by even opening this can of worms. There are very good reasons that politicians need to be sensative to playing racial politics and politics of exclusion. That has always been a thread - and a dark and terrible one in the American psyche.

People knew the consequences of pulling it out - the false delegitimization of someone based on racial fears. They did it anyway for their own game and really didn't care about the "collateral damage" and it will be very hard to stuff that genie back in. It is a dark sign of the times that politicians have stooped so low as to do these things.

The fact that the GOP now is even openly saying "he has divided loyalties" should tell you everything you need to know. Has there ever been a president who was accused of being loyal to another nation? It is remarkably telling of course that this does only get pulled out for a black man. Ever since there has been an America there have been people who have despised any given president with passion. But, since up till now they were all white Christians, no one ever questioned if they were one of us.

I can not say how sick this makes me.

453 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:14:39pm

re: #393 prairiefire

I like "Mitch lookslikemygrandma "McConnell."

He reminds me of those two old Muppets who sit in the balcony complaining all the time.

454 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:15:10pm

re: #451 Walter L. Newton

Don't be dense walter, its not the person being wrong its the 'omg a chance to jump on somebody!'

Hell, I do it too, but I try to back off when there's any kind of apology. Was the second one not enough?

455 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:15:20pm

re: #453 beekiller

He reminds me of those two old Muppets who sit in the balcony complaining all the time.

He couldn't hold a candle to Statler and Waldorf.

456 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:15:20pm

re: #443 Aceofwhat?

re: #444 cliffster

Then maybe we shouldn't be calling each other assholes. All I'm saying.

457 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:15:24pm

re: #447 dugmartsch
I guess the NYT doesn't poll down here. I don't know any Republicans who waste any time worrying about POTUS' place of birth.
His next address, though, does get some attention.......

458 3eff Jeff  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:15:35pm

Alright, I've got stuff to do and y'all are starting to talk Lost, and as I said, I haven't watched this week's episode. I'll see y'all later.

459 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:15:35pm

re: #392 darthstar

Against war (all war) or just a conflict against Iran before they get their hands on nukes?

You see, I see war as a necessary evil - justified war doctrine has its place, and a small war now could prevent a much larger conflagration later. Taking the Iranian regime out before they get their hands on nukes is preferable given what a nuclear weapon could do in the hands of the regime.

460 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:15:40pm

re: #434 Jimmah

If you think it's only a certain subset of the human population that can be harmed by excessive salt intake, it might be time to brush up on your medical knowledge.

My mom, who is a doctor (an internist, if you must know), rails about this all the time.

Catch up yourself. Science is fun.

If you have hypertension or are otherwise at risk of being harmed by excessive sodium intake, you should monitor your sodium intake.

Am I really, really asking too much? Really?

461 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:15:59pm

re: #457 tradewind

lol rilly?

Birtherism doesn't exist in the south?!

462 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:16:20pm

re: #442 JasonA

Again, I'm not sure how much research Walter expects people to do before poking fun at a target.

You ever think that making fun of someone because of physical looks is a bad idea to start with. You make fun of fat people, skinny people, you think it's alright to make fun of people with unusual physical conditions?

How about if you don't like the mans politics you try using some intellect and find a way to "make fun" of his positions, not his physical attributes.

463 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:16:50pm

re: #415 cliffster

It's on the label. If you don't like the amount of salt, then don't buy it. There's no sensible argument, so instead we're making jokes about communism.

That is very elititist of you. After all, what about the silent throngs of obese, out of shape, undisciplined, selfish folks who are too fucking lazy and irresponsible to even read the fucking labels. We must protect our stupid brethren even at the cost of our own freedom of choice.

464 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:16:56pm

re: #425 SteveB4

I guess my initial point was that the 'dumbth' can be found across the political spectrum. Just as Bush had to contend with truthers, now Obama deals with birthers. Whether these conspiracy theories are technically born among fringe types or libertarians seems beside the point...a disturbingly large number of ideologues on both sides were/are willing to embrace them simply because they cast the opposition in a bad light.

True that. If McCain had won, we would be seeing lefty birthers, since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. The whacko right would not be absent either, since they don't like McCain much better than they do Obama.

465 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:17:00pm

re: #460 Aceofwhat?

Did I miss you replying to me about the real harm of there being some soft limit to 'salt-added'? Thread moves so fast >

466 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:17:30pm

re: #460 Aceofwhat?

My mom, who is a doctor (an internist, if you must know), rails about this all the time.

Catch up yourself. Science is fun.

If you have hypertension or are otherwise at risk of being harmed by excessive sodium intake, you should monitor your sodium intake.

Am I really, really asking too much? Really?

Yes. We need our mommies and daddies in Washington to tell us what to do and keep us safe and sound.

467 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:17:46pm

re: #459 lawhawk

Taking regimes out via war is not a very effective strategy. Iranians are not going to receive a US military coup of their coup very well.

Taking the regime out is a great, noble goal. Believing that doing it via a 'small war' is the right way to go about it is simplistic.

How do you judge the size of a war before you begin it, again?

468 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:17:57pm

re: #462 Walter L. Newton

I'll stop here and simply keep in my mind that making fun of someone's looks is unacceptable here and act accordingly the next time it's done.

469 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:18:12pm

re: #456 JasonA

re: #444 cliffster

Then maybe we shouldn't be calling each other assholes. All I'm saying.

Give me a good reason why not? And different than making fun of someone's physical looks, is it? You seem to be ok with that.

470 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:18:22pm

re: #461 windsagio
Sure it does. Depends on the educational level, the crowd, and the individual. But to say that ' a majority of Republicans' are birthers is crap.

471 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:18:58pm

re: #467 Obdicut

Given that the current Iranian regime is the result of a nationalist revolution after the last coup we (and the Brits) engineered there, there might be some additional backlash too.

472 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:19:00pm

re: #311 Aceofwhat?

Potentially harmful to...people with hypertension who should (and can, btw) be choosing low-sodium foods?

Because it's not potentially harmful to me, or the majority of human beings who aren't hypertensive.

Science is fun!

Long-term diets of high amounts of sodium has been shown to increase sodium sensitivity in animal models. It has not been directly tested in humans, given the obvious difficulties.

High sodium diets have definitively been shown to decrease kidney perfusion in humans of all ages, whether hypertensive or normotensive. Decreased kidney perfusion and the metabolic changes thereof have been also definitively shown to be key in essential hypertension.

Clinically, the frontline treatment against essential hypertension is all about sodium. Reduce sodium in diet, waste sodium with diuretics. This is what has been shown to work.

People aren't 'genetically immune' to salt-sensitive hypertension. Some, especially Africans, have a genetic tendency to be more susceptible. However, most clinicians I know consider basically everyone over 50 to be sensitive to salt and the hypertensive effects thereof, regardless of race.

There have been cases reported of people who show no effect in increased blood pressure with a high salt diet over the course of the study. Then again, as I said, it has been shown in animal models that long term high-sodium exposure does sensitise the kidneys to sodium later in life. And again, high sodium definitively does decrease kidney perfusion, which is a component of hypertension, no matter who you are.

Reduction of sodium makes good sense. It's not an infringement on anyone's freedoms. They are free to add more salt, just as they're free to burn tyres on Earth Day or turn on all their lights during Earth Hour.

473 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:19:24pm

re: #456 JasonA

re: #444 cliffster

Then maybe we shouldn't be calling each other assholes. All I'm saying.

i'm not against that...but i sure wouldn't have picked this particular occasion to make that point...

474 Buck  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:19:31pm

re: #437 JasonA

Okay, I saw the sentence that mentions it. Seriously, I've seen him on shows before and never realized it. He's not Stephen Hawking.

I think the point is not to make fun of peoples looks. It's childish and can be a huge mistake. (I remember someone making fun of McCains teeth....equally stupid).

He is an accomplished person, and although I don't know "elektramourns", I doubt they could hold a candle to his accomplishments.

So the shot about his looks was wrong on every level.

475 dugmartsch  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:19:50pm

re: #457 tradewind

I think birtherism is a two-fer for the crazy republican base.

First, its got that sweet scent of xenophobia that the love to indulge.

Second, it let's them feel like victim's to some amorphous liberal agenda/agent that they are powerless to fight.

That's why it has such crazy legs, it would just be too awesome if it were true.

476 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:19:59pm

re: #452 LudwigVanQuixote

Generally good post. During the 1960 campaign, JFK was rumored to be in the employ of the Pope (being the first Roman Catholic president and all), so there's divided loyalties that came into play there. A similar smear was made against Joe Lieberman in 2000.

477 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:20:13pm

At first, they came for the chefs, but I did not speak up, because I was not a chef. Then, they came for the canned foods, but since I eat mostly pizza, I remained silent. When they came for my trusty container of Morton's, there were no chefs or cans of soup to speak up for me.

///

478 Locker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:20:15pm

Oh yes our health care is safe and secure in the hands of private companies. I guess our US health care is pretty decent... if you can pay cash.

Exclusive: WellPoint routinely targets breast cancer patients

In testimony before the House committee last year, Brian Sassi, the president and CEO of WellPoint's consumer division, asserted: "I want to emphasize that rescission is about stopping fraud and material misrepresentation that contributes to spiraling health care costs. Rescission is a tool employed by WellPoint and other health insurers to protect the vast majority of policyholders who provide accurate and complete information from subsidizing the cost of those who do not."

But state regulators, congressional investigators and consumer advocates say that in only a tiny percentage of canceled health insurance cases was there a legitimate reason.

A 2007 investigation by the California Department of Managed Health Care bore this out. The agency randomly selected 90 instances in which Anthem Blue Cross of California dropped the insurance of policyholders after diagnoses with costly or life-threatening illnesses to determine how many were legally justified.

None were. "In all 90 files, there was no evidence (that Blue Cross), before rescinding coverage, investigated or established that the applicant's omission/misrepresentation was willful," the DMHC report said.

479 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:20:19pm

re: #467 Obdicut

Taking regimes out via war is not a very effective strategy. Iranians are not going to receive a US military coup of their coup very well.

Taking the regime out is a great, noble goal. Believing that doing it via a 'small war' is the right way to go about it is simplistic.

How do you judge the size of a war before you begin it, again?

June 1914, "So we kill one Austrian Archduke. Seriously, whats the worst that could happen?"

480 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:20:26pm

re: #469 Walter L. Newton

Give me a good reason why not? And different than making fun of someone's physical looks, is it? You seem to be ok with that.

What I'm not okay with is the tone of voice you took on in response. I made it known and I really think that's the end of that, Walter. If you want other people to act like adults then you should move out of that glass house.

481 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:20:35pm

re: #472 Renaissance_Man

You make a good point that the proposed restriction-- and can we remember what party BLoomberg belongs to, please?-- is not on individuals.

482 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:20:40pm

re: #470 tradewind

Well let's just change 'most' (polls tend to skew old and conservative for a few reasons) to 'an unacceptable number of'.

Then we can agree!

483 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:22:00pm

re: #480 JasonA

What I'm not okay with is the tone of voice you took on in response. I made it known and I really think that's the end of that, Walter. If you want other people to act like adults then you should move out of that glass house.

I didn't build the house, just bringing it down when I can. Whine, whine, whine.

484 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:22:05pm

re: #479 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

June 1914, "So we kill one Austrian Archduke. Seriously, whats the worst that could happen?"

Well, that was fine in the age of muzzle-loading muskts, but by the XX century they had machine guns that could take out 120 Archdukes per minute...

485 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:22:17pm

re: #472 Renaissance_Man
Actually, the most sodium sensitive groups come from areas where salt is scarce, and their bodies seem to have adapted in an effort to conserve it.

486 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:22:32pm

re: #480 JasonA

Don't give Walter Candy, you'll make him fat >>

487 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:22:38pm

re: #465 windsagio

Did I miss you replying to me about the real harm of there being some soft limit to 'salt-added'? Thread moves so fast >

whoops...i don't know!;)

i'm all for a limit that, if exceeded, might actually poison someone.

AFAIK, the limits that are being proposed by the FDA are lower, i.e. the sort of limits that hypertensive people ought to be doing on their own.

the other "conditions" you listed from Wiki occur at much higher doses...closer to "poisoning".

frankly, i don't know how someone could eat that much salt without puking...makes me gag just to think about it;)

488 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:23:14pm

re: #28 jamesfirecat

A person is smart, but people are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. ...

What the?

A simple timely movie quote that I directly copy and pasted off of an online script manages to make it into the top 10?

LGF you can do better!

489 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:23:16pm

re: #430 Aceofwhat?

see #375. let me know what you think.

I was simply addressing the theoretical complete ban on salt, which is ludicrous and stands no chance of passing at all.

The other effort in NY to limit salt would obviously be very problematic to enforce, they may pass a rule requiring a 25% decrease in salt use at restaurants. I don't see how they would expect to enforce it though, short of taking samples of the food to the lab and testing them, then there would still be the problem of proving how much salt was in the ingredients and how much had been added by the chef. Basically it would be a nonsense and unenforceable regulation, not that I'm saying that we don't already have a few of those on the books.

As far as the federal rules that would limit and then slowly reduce the amount of salt in prepackaged food I applaud that effort. Way too many companies attempt to cover the fact that their food tastes like shit by burying it in salt. Read the damn packaging, many prepared foods have absolutely ridiculous amounts of salt in them.

It is easy to say "read the label and if it has too much then buy something else" but what do you do when all of the brands contain way too much salt?

490 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:23:26pm

re: #479 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

June 1914, "So we kill one Austrian Archduke. Seriously, whats the worst that could happen?"

September 1, 1939: "The invasion of Poland won't lead to anything further. There's no way France and the UK will declare war on us without Russia!"

491 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:23:33pm

re: #480 JasonA

What I'm not okay with is the tone of voice you took on in response. I made it known and I really think that's the end of that, Walter. If you want other people to act like adults then you should move out of that glass house.

Calling someone an asshole is different from calling them ugly. Can you figure out why?

492 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:23:36pm

re: #486 windsagio

Who's Candy?

493 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:23:41pm

re: #485 tradewind

Doesn't change the fact that we get waaay more than we need.

Still can't get anyone to tell me the real harm of a limit on companies putting sodium into food. Do folks really think we'll suddenly have to little salt? Is it juts kneejerk antigovernmentism?

494 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:23:48pm

re: #484 ralphieboy

Well, that was fine in the age of muzzle-loading muskts, but by the XX century they had machine guns that could take out 120 Archdukes per minute...

Well, with all the military marvels of the modern day, we can knock out the war in a week or two and have the boys home lickety split with a hip hip horray and huzzahs all around.

495 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:23:49pm

re: #482 windsagio

Such an optimist.//

496 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:24:14pm

re: #486 windsagio

Don't give Walter Candy, you'll make him fat >>

You're the only candy I need in my life, big boy :)

497 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:24:15pm

re: #446 tradewind

... nah, unlike.
He's Dead, Jim.
:)
Man, they did up the ante last Tuesday, didn't they? Getting down to the lick-log.

Yep, sure did. (Leaving off discussion of that episode for those catching up.)

What I'm wondering from re-watching the Season 1 is;

Who is in the re-incarnated state like Sayid?

I notice that Rose also died, and was revived by Jack, with a gasping return to life.

Jack had a gasp to life on the opening scene, as may have Lock. Lock was also cured of his paralysis.

Lock also may have let Smokey talk to him, what happened in the jungle, was it Smokey or the pig?

498 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:24:29pm

re: #486 windsagio

Don't give Walter Candy, you'll make him fat >>

Meh. I probably let my contempt for the man get the better of me here.

499 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:24:50pm

re: #494 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, with all the military marvels of the modern day, we can knock out the war in a week or two and have the boys home lickety split with a hip hip horray and huzzahs all around.

So long mom, I'm off to drop the bomb,
So don't wait up for me
Look for me when the war is over
An hour and a half from now!

500 Buck  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:24:54pm

re: #452 LudwigVanQuixote

The fact that the GOP now is even openly saying "he has divided loyalties" should tell you everything you need to know.

Who in the GOP said this? Did I miss this?


Has there ever been a president who was accused of being loyal to another nation?

The left accusing this of GWB and neocons? Loyalty to Israel?

501 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:25:01pm

re: #492 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Too much German language in me still, I occasionally capitalize nouns at random.

That make a good porno tho' >>

502 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:25:05pm

re: #494 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, with all the military marvels of the modern day, we can knock out the war in a week or two and have the boys home lickety split with a hip hip horray and huzzahs all around.


Tell me of a war that was not supposed to be "over by Christmas"...

503 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:25:12pm

re: #498 JasonA

Meh. I probably let my contempt for the man get the better of me here.

Slash away if you think you're up to it.

504 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:25:17pm

re: #467 Obdicut

So the alternative is what exactly? Hope that the UN does its thing, knowing that it has failed time and time again and that the more time Iran gets, the closer it gets to achieving nuclear weapons and makes dealing with it militarily all the more difficult (including the nuclear blackmail that would occur on the region thereafter).

No, the only alternative other than to deal with the regime's nuclear program via airstrikes (a la Osirak) is to wait out the regime and hope that their technological prowess on nuclear technologies isn't sufficient to have the nuclear weapons that they have all too frequently hoped for. Hope that the regime collapses from within by decay, because overthrowing it isn't an option.

That assumes that they wont have nuclear weapons by then - again that's a function of time as they already have the centrifuges and declared capabilities to run the enrichment up to LEU - short of weapons grade, but sufficient for proof of concept where the only hurdle is time.

And therein lies the problem - that's a whole lot of wishful thinking to base a strategic and tactical position on.

505 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:25:29pm

re: #499 jamesfirecat

Posted that yesterday.

506 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:25:29pm

re: #493 windsagio
It's called limiting the role of Big Brother Government, an area where I am not really expecting us to mind meld.

507 cliffster  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:26:09pm

re: #493 windsagio

Doesn't change the fact that we get waaay more than we need.

Still can't get anyone to tell me the real harm of a limit on companies putting sodium into food. Do folks really think we'll suddenly have to little salt? Is it juts kneejerk antigovernmentism?

Can you tell me the real harm in people actually taking responsibility for themselves? Pick up the item. Rotate it. Look at the label.

508 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:26:20pm

re: #498 JasonA

Maybe its not my place, but you need to take a zen attitude with Walter. He's a bit different than most of the real problem cases. Have fun with him, let him play his schtick, and understand he likes a good fight, and you'll do great.

509 freetoken  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:26:45pm

Thread reminds me of...

510 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:27:15pm

re: #507 cliffster

Can you tell me the real harm in people actually taking responsibility for themselves? Pick up the item. Rotate it. Look at the label.

Your faith in the American people does you credit sir. But it is the job of catnip smoking liberals like myself who are suppose to lay out the plans for a perfect world....

511 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:27:32pm

re: #504 lawhawk

There's a problem also that they've split up their program very effectively (or so I've read). That one, or even 10 airstrikes wouldn't effectively stop it.

And of course, each attack radicalizes the populace and strengthens the regimes grip on power.

512 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:28:18pm

re: #503 Walter L. Newton

Slash away if you think you're up to it.

Oh please, I'm not some common ruffian. I'll save it for when it's deserved. And I freely admit this battle wasn't well-chosen. Till next time.

513 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:28:25pm

re: #508 windsagio

Maybe its not my place, but you need to take a zen attitude with Walter. He's a bit different than most of the real problem cases. Have fun with him, let him play his schtick, and understand he likes a good fight, and you'll do great.

I'll give Jason a few hours to work on his style, I have to go to a doctors appointment. Maybe the doctor will tell me I'm dying of something and Jason won't have to worry about putting up with me any longer.

Or maybe, I can get the doctor to touch something she shouldn't be touching and then sue her big time for my piece of the 15 minutes of fame and money pie.

Decisions, decisions... oh well... BBL.

514 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:29:01pm

re: #513 Walter L. Newton

ass :P

I hope that the doctor tells you you've been eating too much salt!

515 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:29:07pm

re: #513 Walter L. Newton

In all serious, be well.

516 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:29:19pm

re: #513 Walter L. Newton

if it's a she and she's touching something she shouldn't be touching then isn't that "playing doctor"?

517 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:30:09pm

re: #516 Dreggas

if it's a she and she's touching something she shouldn't be touching then isn't that "playing doctor"?


I wonder if Gandhi would've led that march To The Sea if he had know what was going to come down to here...

518 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:30:21pm

re: #513 Walter L. Newton

I can think of better things to do with such a situation than sueing...

519 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:31:02pm

re: #459 lawhawk

Against war (all war) or just a conflict against Iran before they get their hands on nukes?

You see, I see war as a necessary evil - justified war doctrine has its place, and a small war now could prevent a much larger conflagration later. Taking the Iranian regime out before they get their hands on nukes is preferable given what a nuclear weapon could do in the hands of the regime.

If we were to "take out" every "regime" that we disagreed with, or thought might be trying to get nuclear weapons, or we thought might use the nuclear weapons that they have, we'd be taking out a lot of countries. Israel has nukes, and it seems to be a fairly common belief that they could (and according to some people should) use them against their enemies...would you apply the same logic to them? I sure as fuck wouldn't. Just as I don't apply it to Iran.

A country is a lot more than just its current asshole leadership. Iran's got enough internal problems to deal with right now that they're not going to be invading anyone for the next decade. That gives the rest of the planet plenty of time to try to effect peaceful change there.

520 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:31:23pm

re: #497 Bagua
a) Claire is the only other one I am pretty confident about. Think she bought it in the explosion when Kemy's men attacked.
b) ' gasp to life', I would say more like a regaining of consciousness. I don't think it means much, it's just seems like a favorite theme of Darleton to open with an opening eye.
I never was clear on that whole jungle/sweat-lodge thingy. The electromagnet stuff on the island probably has something to do with the healing. I was just glad to see them finally do something with that body (Locke, the original model).
I think Walter's your best go-to for all things Lost.

521 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:31:23pm

re: #519 darthstar

WB, make it to your meeting in time? :D

522 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:31:42pm

re: #472 Renaissance_Man

High sodium diets have definitively been shown to decrease kidney perfusion in humans of all ages, whether hypertensive or normotensive. Decreased kidney perfusion and the metabolic changes thereof have been also definitively shown to be key in essential hypertension.

link for this one, please?

523 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:31:50pm

OT but, it is a related topic.

A certain anti-environmentalist AGW denier has made a post I wish to quote for you. I want you to see how this dovetails with the stupid of the topic of this thread.

I remember my first Earth Day at Junior High. They really went all out, and shut the normal teaching down for the day. They cancelled all classes. The morning was spent in assemblies. Three hours of nothing but assemblies on what “pollution” was, and how bad we humans were, and last but not least, how we could be part of the solution instead of part of the problem™.

I was paying more attention to the other students than to the propaganda. I watched as normally bad boys were transformed into glassy-eyed zombies. At lunch, they were all jabbering about how bad the pollution was, and yadda.

In the afternoon, they pushed a little harder, and told all the students that they were going to show their devotion to the cause by going out into the school yard, and spending the afternoon picking up litter. Yippee!!!

I went out with everyone else, and did it for about ten minutes. Then I stood up and looked all around me. Snotty girls. Bad boys. People you’d never dream of doing this kind of thing on their own just mindlessly doing what they’ve been told. It hit me like a ton of bricks. We’ve all been had!!!

Realizing this, I made my way to the edge of the property, and when no one was looking (even with 500 kids and a couple dozen teachers present, they were so bent over picking up somebody else’s schmutz that there were long periods when nobody could see me) I crossed the street, and ducked behind a house.

...

Ladies and gentlemen, there’s something pernicious in a totalitarian way about the entire environmental movement, and it’s been that way for a long time. Maybe this true anecdote can help illustrate why they can’t be trusted.

Notice the scare quotes around pollution. in the first line. Perhaps this individual sees no evidence that there is such a thing as pollution? Of course not. This individual would not drink a cup of water from NY harbor . He knows that would be a bad idea, yet he needs the scare quotes.

If you present him with the real world in his face he will acknowledge what anyone would. But the disconnect happens if it is something that he can call someone else's problem over there. Love canal was not polluted because other people live in Love Canal. AGW isn't real because he personally has not yet felt it in a way that he would be forced to acknowledge and pictures of glaciers retreating or ice caps shrinking are over there. It gets put into a different box in his mind. Once it is in that box, he is able to do double think.

This person is also a birther. And it is the same thing. If he were hiring someone for a job, and he needed to know that someone was born in this nation to give him the job, then of course official state paperwork from any given state would do the job for him. I don't know abut raised watermarks etc... But I do know that all the states do these things differently, and so does he. He would accept the official paperwork from any of the given states without a question, if he did a background check and verified that it was the official forms issued by that state or even county.

But if it a president he hates! Well that is a different matter!

He explains why further on. All sorts of bad boys - you know rebels like he imagines himself to be - people who somehow stand out from the herd - were brainwashed into picking up other people's trash. Damn it. He will not be told to clean up his mess - that is totalitarian so sure as hell he won't help pick up a mess made by someone else!

Yes he is a bad boy! A very bad little boy throwing a temper tantrum.
No liberal is going to tell him about his social responsibilities! So that is how we get scare quotes around pollution.

524 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:32:24pm

re: #504 lawhawk

So the alternative is what exactly?

Well, there's more than one alterative to not going to war with someone. It's not just "War, or the UN".

However, given that the US has already completely screwed up in Iran by deposing their leader and putting the Shah in place, it probably isn't possible for the US to unilaterally solve any problems in Iran whatsoever. That incredibly poor decision is biting us very hard in the ass.

I'm not sure why you want to follow it up with another similarly poor decision.

The best thing that could have been done to address Iran was to move us away from an oil-based economy; we failed at that already.

In addition, I reject the notion that the military leaders in Iran-- who have been seizing more and more power from the mullahs-- are religious fanatics who want to use a nuke on Israel or anywhere else. They are corrupt assholes who want power. Using a nuke would end their power forever.

Can you explain, now, how you tell if a war is going to be 'small' before you start it?

525 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:32:48pm

re: #519 darthstar

You'd think we'd have learned our lesson when it comes to pre-emptive war and invading countries based on "what ifs"?

526 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:32:55pm

re: #519 darthstar

Also, seriously. Nuclear nonproliferation is a joke. Its impossible to stop any countyr with money that really wants the damn things.

527 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:33:09pm

re: #521 windsagio

WB, make it to your meeting in time? :D

Yes...phone screening. Fortunately, this candidate ruled herself out before we were done talking, so I don't need to bring her in for a face to face (got lots of those lined up too)...just not enough technical experience.

528 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:33:28pm

re: #489 ausador

who said complete ban on salt? i sure as hell didn't...

529 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:34:53pm

re: #463 Spare O'Lake

That is very elititist of you. After all, what about the silent throngs of obese, out of shape, undisciplined, selfish folks who are too fucking lazy and irresponsible to even read the fucking labels. We must protect our stupid brethren even at the cost of our own freedom of choice.

You meant this sarcastically, but are we not at least to a minimal extent our brothers' keepers? Even the stupid? Half the nation is of below-average intelligence, after all.

How much does it cost us in freedom of choice if we scale back the salt content of junk food? Whyever would we want the high-salt version for ourselves, except on rare occasions?

Would it hurt to include salt warning labels? How about maybe some ads that start out looking like they're going to be for Viagra, but morph into a discussion of how high dietary salt had trashed not just the kidneys?

Anyone who's seen a bridge tournament knows that the ranks of the out of shape and undisciplined, {insofar as food is concerned} include some people who are quite bright and quite capable of exercising enormous self discipline in the matter of avoiding impulsive bids and of maintaining concentration and focus.

And if it wasn't true before, it is now, that we are, like it or not, our brothers' health care insurance payer. It is now illegal to take into account preexisting conditions such as obesity or high salt dietary habits when quoting rates to a health insurance applicant. One price fits all. These our fellow citizens, by their poor health, drive up the price of health coverage for those of us who are tanned, fit, and just pluperfectly awesome. Isn't it smart to do what we can to help them master their impulsive side and do what they really want to do anyhow, and scale back salt consumption?

And isn't it sweet to bask in the glow of well-deserved self-approbation for pluperfect awesomeness? You can laugh at the schmuck who's ahead of you in line at the gas/convenience store buying potato chips and slowing you down as you go to buy your sure-thing lucky number lotto card.

530 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:35:10pm

re: #479 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

June 1914, "So we kill one Austrian Archduke. Seriously, whats the worst that could happen?"

In the early twenties, a German newspaper held a contest for the most sensational possible headline. Most entries dealt with things like the second coming of Christ or the arrival of space aliens (even at that early date).

The winner however was "ARCH-DUKE FRANZ-FERDINAND ALIVE! WORLD WAR FOUGHT BY MISTAKE!"

(In truth, the assassination was only the immediate spark that ignited the powder-keg Europe had become in those days. The real causes were secret alliances, neo-romantic nationalism, and the plain naivete that came from the absence of any protracted warfare on the continent for almost a hundred years.)

531 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:35:14pm

re: #523 LudwigVanQuixote

OT but, it is a related topic.

A certain anti-environmentalist AGW denier has made a post I wish to quote for you. I want you to see how this dovetails with the stupid of the topic of this thread.

Notice the scare quotes around pollution. in the first line. Perhaps this individual sees no evidence that there is such a thing as pollution? Of course not. This individual would not drink a cup of water from NY harbor . He knows that would be a bad idea, yet he needs the scare quotes.

If you present him with the real world in his face he will acknowledge what anyone would. But the disconnect happens if it is something that he can call someone else's problem over there. Love canal was not polluted because other people live in Love Canal. AGW isn't real because he personally has not yet felt it in a way that he would be forced to acknowledge and pictures of glaciers retreating or ice caps shrinking are over there. It gets put into a different box in his mind. Once it is in that box, he is able to do double think.

This person is also a birther. And it is the same thing. If he were hiring someone for a job, and he needed to know that someone was born in this nation to give him the job, then of course official state paperwork from any given state would do the job for him. I don't know abut raised watermarks etc... But I do know that all the states do these things differently, and so does he. He would accept the official paperwork from any of the given states without a question, if he did a background check and verified that it was the official forms issued by that state or even county.

But if it a president he hates! Well that is a different matter!

He explains why further on. All sorts of bad boys - you know rebels like he imagines himself to be - people who somehow stand out from the herd - were brainwashed into picking up other people's trash. Damn it. He will not be told to clean up his mess - that is totalitarian so sure as hell he won't help pick up a mess made by someone else!

Yes he is a bad boy! A very bad little boy throwing a temper tantrum.
No liberal is going to tell him about his social responsibilities! So that is how we get scare quotes around pollution.

You read too much into it.

It's all there in the line "picking up somebody else’s schmutz "

As the saying goes "I've got mine f*** you"

He's just a selfish prick looking for a way to justify his selfishness and avoid pitching in to truly do his fair share, beginning, middle and end of story.

532 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:36:28pm

re: #524 Obdicut

Strangely, IRan was never really that strong of a fundamentalist state. By Middle-eastern standards, the people tend to be extremely liberal.

Only the Shah let the Mullahs take over, and the less we mess with them the more the people chafe under the yoke.

533 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:36:36pm

re: #518 Fozzie Bear

I can think of better things to do with such a situation than sueing...

dang, i NEVER get happy endings at my doctor's...i need to get back out there...

534 freetoken  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:36:49pm

re: #524 Obdicut

Truth is, the US has exactly the same % of success as the UN in stopping countries from getting nuclear weapons.

In other words, we haven't.

Not the British, or the French, or the Russians, or the Chinese, or the Indians, or the Pakistanis, or the Israelis. Probably not the NKoreans (if they indeed really have one), not he South Africans (who gave up due to the cost), not the Brazilians (who likewise gave up because of cost).

None. The US hasn't stopped anyone from developing nuclear weapons if they really wanted them.

535 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:37:15pm

re: #524 Obdicut

I like the cut of your jib, good sir.

536 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:37:16pm

re: #533 Aceofwhat?

damn proctologists, won't even give a reach around!

537 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:37:50pm

re: #468 JasonA
Personal appearance can be and is mocked with abandon here, especially in a comedic mode. It's mocking someone who cannot change his or her appearance due to an illness or tragedy that seems beyond the pale. In other words, common decency.
Just saying.

538 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:37:53pm

re: #522 Aceofwhat?

link for this one, please?

It's on PubMed, can't link to it direct. PMID is 20308608 if you have access, otherwise the study is: Hypertension. 2010 May;55(5):1116-22. Epub 2010 Mar 22. Effect of sodium loading/depletion on renal oxygenation in young normotensive and hypertensive men., Pruijm et al.

539 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:38:04pm

re: #500 Buck

Who in the GOP said this? Did I miss this?

Yes, read the transcript of the previous part of that show. It was a GOP legislator from Az named Ash.

The left accusing this of GWB and neocons? Loyalty to Israel?

Don't be fatuous. No one on the left ever accused Bush of secretly being an Israeli citizen. What is going on with the deligitimization of Obama is something different.

540 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:39:10pm

re: #530 shiplord kirel

In the early twenties, a German newspaper held a contest for the most sensational possible headline. Most entries dealt with things like the second coming of Christ or the arrival of space aliens (even at that early date).

The winner however was "ARCH-DUKE FRANZ-FERDINAND ALIVE! WORLD WAR FOUGHT BY MISTAKE!"

(In truth, the assassination was only the immediate spark that ignited the powder-keg Europe had become in those days. The real causes were secret alliances, neo-romantic nationalism, and the plain naivete that came from the absence of any protracted warfare on the continent for almost a hundred years.)

True, but my example is still valid. Too many unknown variables for anyone to ever make an accurate prediction on how long a war will last and its long term repurcussions.

541 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:39:15pm

re: #534 freetoken

I'm reading Oppenheimer's biography right now-- or one of them, anyway:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

He and the other scientists clearly saw that nuclear arms proliferation was inevitable. You can't keep physics secret, and as the technological level rises, so does the ease of making a nuclear weapon.

Fascinating book: I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the time period.

542 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:39:35pm

re: #536 Dreggas

damn proctologists, won't even give a reach around!

My dad (now retired) was a doctor. A lot of his patients (we lived in rural Northern California) were ranchers. Whenever he did a prostate exam, he'd reassure his patients by saying, "I'm going to put a hand on your shoulder while I check your prostate...so there's no need to feel nervous unless you feel BOTH of my hands on your shoulders." That always got a chuckle out of them.

543 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:39:51pm

re: #538 Renaissance_Man

thanks!

544 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:40:02pm

re: #535 Fozzie Bear

For irony, the one time I went sailing I got hit on the head by the jib boom and nearly died.

I wasn't cut out to be a snooty yachtsman.

545 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:40:08pm

re: #539 LudwigVanQuixote

The only accusation like that I can think of that was levied much against the Bush admin was that members were more loyal to the major corporations than to the US.


But isn't that the Republican platform anyways?

546 freetoken  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:40:39pm

re: #541 Obdicut

If any nation has enough money, they can develop nuclear weapons.

547 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:40:56pm

re: #520 tradewind

a) Claire is the only other one I am pretty confident about. Think she bought it in the explosion when Kemy's men attacked.

b) ' gasp to life', I would say more like a regaining of consciousness. I don't think it means much, it's just seems like a favorite theme of Darleton to open with an opening eye.

I never was clear on that whole jungle/sweat-lodge thingy. The electromagnet stuff on the island probably has something to do with the healing. I was just glad to see them finally do something with that body (Locke, the original model).

I think Walter's your best go-to for all things Lost.

Yes, Walter is great, but us near mortals enjoy stumbling about in the darkness also.

Claire is the primary suspect, she certainly went over to the other side by at least talking to Flock, but I'm not sure if she is reincarnated like Sayid. It would make sense that there are other reincarnates as Dogen had a test for it.

What I see is that there are several ways the healing works. For living people, the pool in the Temple can heal them. For the dead, coming back to life heals them. Next being a candidate has certain healing/invulnerability aspects.

548 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:40:56pm

re: #541 Obdicut

Holy crap! It's only $9.99 on Kindle?

Are all books that cheap on Kindle?

I'm a little behind the times.

549 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:41:07pm

re: #538 Renaissance_Man
You can usually link pubmed via medscape.
However, for every pubmed study supporting one view, you will find an opposing one. And you also have to scroll to the end to see who sponsored it.

550 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:41:40pm

re: #547 Bagua

Listening to people talk about Lost reminds me of people talking about Myst and Angel combined.

551 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:41:50pm

re: #544 Obdicut

I must admit, I chuckled at your misfortune. It's only funny because you are (obviously) ok now.

552 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:41:55pm

re: #546 freetoken

If any nation has enough money, they can develop nuclear weapons.

But fear-mongering about nukes makes for good theater, and also is a good fund-raiser for the saber-rattlers.

553 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:42:06pm

re: #548 Obdicut

I really wanna get one of those E-ink things, waiting for the pricepoint to go down again.

554 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:42:08pm

re: #549 tradewind

You can usually link pubmed via medscape.
However, for every pubmed study supporting one view, you will find an opposing one.

so true. but i'm looking forward to reading this one anyway. what are we doing but endlessly questing about for new information?

555 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:42:12pm

re: #547 Bagua

Dogen's test wasn't for zombieism, IIRC.... it was for ' the darkness'..... kind of like an infection of evil.
No telling who all has that stuff.

556 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:42:51pm

re: #550 Obdicut

Listening to people talk about Lost reminds me of people talking about Myst and Angel combined.

Just be glad there wasn't an internet when Laverne and Shirley was on TV.

557 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:43:02pm

re: #551 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, but I'm really ugly, so you suck for laughing.

/

558 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:44:02pm

bbl folks...work is dead so i'm leaving early. will post mocking updates during the Cavs game, i promise!

(cue collective groans here)

559 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:44:12pm

re: #534 freetoken

Truth is, the US has exactly the same % of success as the UN in stopping countries from getting nuclear weapons.

In other words, we haven't.

Not the British, or the French, or the Russians, or the Chinese, or the Indians, or the Pakistanis, or the Israelis. Probably not the NKoreans (if they indeed really have one), not he South Africans (who gave up due to the cost), not the Brazilians (who likewise gave up because of cost).

None. The US hasn't stopped anyone from developing nuclear weapons if they really wanted them.

Libya is a possible exception to that. It is also certain that whatever Saddam may have done in the future got interrupted, most notably by the Israelis.

It seams likely Israel has interrupted both Iraq and Syria successfully.

560 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:44:14pm

re: #467 Obdicut

Taking regimes out via war is not a very effective strategy. Iranians are not going to receive a US military coup of their coup very well.

Taking the regime out is a great, noble goal. Believing that doing it via a 'small war' is the right way to go about it is simplistic.

How do you judge the size of a war before you begin it, again?

Good point.

Small war? With Iran? Small wars with big countries are an oxymoron. Iran is taking an awful chance with its aggressive talk, its paramilitary alliances with Venezuela and Hizbullah, and its nuclear weapons program. All this is a recipe for trouble. But we must not delude ourselves that we can avoid this trouble with a nice little war.

War with Iran once Iran has nuclear weapons would be destructive beyond anything the world has seen since 1945. War with Iran now would be bloody, expensive, and protracted. War with Iran never would be ideal, if we could see how to arrange that it worked out that way. But that decision is not in our hands alone, and it's hard to read the intentions of the regime. It's not even clear who's in charge over there.

Those who envy Obama are overlooking that the ball is in his court on this decision and every last one of his options has some grave risks attached to it.

561 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:45:29pm

re: #556 darthstar

Just be glad there wasn't an internet when Laverne and Shirley was on TV.

Or Love Boat. Or Fantasy Island!

Evil thought, on the last episode of Lost, Mr. Rourke and Tatoo show up and ask the survivors what they've learned on their visit as they board the seaplane home.

562 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:45:50pm

Imo, the Mullahs need an agressive US to maintain their rather fragile hold on power.

I think the chance of a revolution in Iran deposing the Mullahs is higher than most people tend to believe it is. The people of Iran are fairly moderate for the middle east. The less we rattle sabers, the less the Mullah's have with which to propagandize. The Iranians are posturing from a position of weakness, and are more interested in maintenance of power than Armageddon. If cooler heads could prevail, I think we would see that borne out.

563 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:46:00pm

re: #166 darthstar

My brother and his family are this kind of Republican. For the lights out hour a few weeks ago, they went around and turned on all the lights in their house, as well as their Xmas lights outside. The kids thought it was funny (they watch Hannity, if that's any indication).

I swear. If you told some people that liberals were against forest fires, they'd go and torch Yosemite. And giggle about it.

564 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:46:12pm

re: #542 darthstar

My best friends doctor is also a good friend of ours. He went to get the "exam" and always says something smart ass to the doc. Plans it for days.

Had nothing... last time? He gave a sharpie to his wife and told her to write a message to the doc. She wrote "PUT IT HERE, BIG BOY"

The doc said, it was a first.

565 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:46:21pm

re: #559 Bagua

True. If we follow the Iraq model, we-- and the UN!-- will successfully prevent Iran from attaining nuclear weapons, and then we'll invade 'em anyway.

566 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:46:37pm

re: #562 Fozzie Bear

the other thing is, the only thing that would ASSURE their power would be a US or Israeli attack.

567 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:46:53pm

re: #555 tradewind

Dogen's test wasn't for zombieism, IIRC... it was for ' the darkness'... kind of like an infection of evil.
No telling who all has that stuff.

It was right after Sayid came back to life unexpectedly, and agreed, anyone can have it. I suspect the real Lock, Rose, and a few others.

568 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:47:15pm
re: #529 lostlakehiker

And isn't it sweet to bask in the glow of well-deserved self-approbation for pluperfect awesomeness? You can laugh at the schmuck who's ahead of you in line at the gas/convenience store buying potato chips and slowing you down as you go to buy your sure-thing lucky number lotto card.

Hahaha...stop following me.
No problem with warning labels, that's not what was being discussed. And no one is suggesting that lethal doses of salt, sugar or anything else should be allowed in individual food servings. The issue of legislating maximum amounts of various ingredients in processed foods is, to me, an issue of personal responsibility and freedom of choice.
Perhaps folks should take a little time to shop for and eat more fresh meat and produce, instead of relying so heavily on heavily processed foods which must of necessity contain large amounts of preservatives and other ingredients to make the crap palatable.

569 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:47:20pm

re: #562 Fozzie Bear

Unfortunately in the present moment, rather than the pro-democracy people in Iran gaining power, it's the military dictatorship style people.

570 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:47:33pm

re: #531 jamesfirecat

You read too much into it.

It's all there in the line "picking up somebody else’s schmutz "

As the saying goes "I've got mine f*** you"

He's just a selfish prick looking for a way to justify his selfishness and avoid pitching in to truly do his fair share, beginning, middle and end of story.

Well he certainly is a selfish prick looking for ways to say F* you. But if it were just that, he would be like most American's on the topic - just selfish and lazy, but willing to admit that cleaning up is a good thing even if they won't do it themselves. He wouldn't get so virulent and angry if there weren't more to it.

There wouldn't be that level of double think if there weren't more to it.

The more to it is that manifestation of weakness and impotence that runs through the wingnuts. Think about how silly a protest this is.

"Young man clean your room!"

"NO! mommy I won't! You fascist!"

What kind of grown man thinks that way? The sort of man who is fundamentally weak and has no confidence in himself. The kind of man who looks out in the world through a lens of fear and a sense of victimization. BUt he deludes himself he is really a manly man, so of course he recasts this rebellion as some form of stand against totalitarianism. He imagines totalitarianism is the reason a manly man like him hasn't made more out of himself. It's the reason why white folks don't seem to be in power anymore wither.

It all dovetails into one fantasy of aggrieved because rather than admitting the evidence that he isn't some great big alpha, he gets to pretend that of course he is an alpha it's just those others keeping him down.

Why do you think Nazis used language like ubermensch? Why did that appeal the way it did to their target audience? Why do we hear about white Christian America so much these days, cloaked in a message that you are losing it somehow.

It is all the exact same thing. It is the anger that causes the vitriol and drives the double think on every single issue that the wingnuts present.

571 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:47:33pm

Bruk-bruk-bruk-BRAWWWK!

572 Locker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:47:37pm

re: #507 cliffster

Can you tell me the real harm in people actually taking responsibility for themselves? Pick up the item. Rotate it. Look at the label.

Everything doesn't have a label. In fact I believe there is a provision in the new health care bill which forces fast food companies to finally show the true ingredients. Additionally when I company does something and it's considered "legal" then most folks will assume it's OK and safe or they provider would "get in trouble".

Personal responsibility is fine but it's basically impossible for the average person to be well versed enough in nutrition, health, safety, risks, etc that are in play with every single product we use to make accurate decisions. Especially when lots of private companies do everything they can to position their products as being safe or healthy while hiding anything which may lead the consumer to believe otherwise.

573 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:47:51pm

re: #569 Obdicut

Still a better option >> Iran won't be another Myanmar, no matter what.

574 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:47:53pm

re: #546 freetoken
Or they can just starve their population. (Norks). Doesn't take a rich nation. A rogue one can get it done as well.

575 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:48:08pm

re: #17 Cato the Elder

LOL.

"The American people are smart."

You have to remember that half of 'the people' are below average on the IQ Bell Curve. ;)

576 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:48:19pm

re: #568 Spare O'Lake

Perhaps folks should take a little time to shop for and eat more fresh meat and produce, instead of relying so heavily on heavily processed foods which must of necessity contain large amounts of preservatives and other ingredients to make the crap palatable.

And this is one place I take my hat off to Wal-Mart: they are doing an amazing job of including good, fresh produce in areas that otherwise are 'food deserts'.

577 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:49:05pm

re: #574 tradewind

They just really need to want the things.

578 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:49:08pm

re: #559 Bagua
We frakking well stopped Iraq from getting nukes. And no matter what side of the WMD argument you inhabit, both parties agreed that Saddam was after 'em.
Didn't get 'em, thanks to us.

579 Buck  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:50:00pm

re: #539 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, read the transcript of the previous part of that show. It was a GOP legislator from Az named Ash.

Please throw up the CNN link to the transcript. The one I read said this:

"It’s created a division among a lot of people in the United States and for better or worse many people don’t believe he’s a U.S. citizen. They believe he has loyalties… ah… divided loyalties I suppose you could say."

Which is not the GOP openly saying "he has divided loyalties".

AND if you think we should read between the lines, well then you need to read "The Israel Lobby" and read between the lines.

580 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:50:10pm

re: #565 Obdicut

True. If we follow the Iraq model, we-- and the UN!-- will successfully prevent Iran from attaining nuclear weapons, and then we'll invade 'em anyway.

I agree, though it is not destiny and perhaps we have learned from the Iraq experience that an invasion is not necessary to cripple the WMD programs.

581 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:50:58pm

re: #578 tradewind

We frakking well stopped Iraq from getting nukes. And no matter what side of the WMD argument you inhabit, both parties agreed that Saddam was after 'em.
Didn't get 'em, thanks to us.

So are half the nutbags in the middle east. That doesn't mean he was a threat. He didn't have them before the current war, thanks to us and the UN, and frankly, we were in no danger of him getting them again, and we knew it. We just pretended like we didn't know it, and went in anyway.

582 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:51:30pm

Earth-day Economics. Plant 20 trees by buying one pair of underwear.

(a friend of mine's company designed these panties)

583 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:52:13pm

re: #544 Obdicut

For irony, the one time I went sailing I got hit on the head by the jib boom and nearly died.

I wasn't cut out to be a snooty yachtsman.

Ah, a victim of the infamous boom-bang.

I crewed on little 20' center-board boats and the first lesson I was taught that when the skipper yelled "coming about" you ducked (while at the same time doing the other tasks you did to get the lines and sails ready for the direction change.)

584 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:52:27pm

re: #578 tradewind

We frakking well stopped Iraq from getting nukes. And no matter what side of the WMD argument you inhabit, both parties agreed that Saddam was after 'em.
Didn't get 'em, thanks to us.

We stopped Iraq from deploying a truck full of weather monitoring equipment.
Grab a tissue.

585 Locker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:53:07pm

And now for a short science break. Amazing photos from the Hubble:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

586 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:53:12pm

re: #559 Bagua
Forgot to give Israel credit for the original take-out.... Osirak was the salvation of the area at the time, and they were the only ones who had the stones to do it.
Looks like Osirak, part deux, is probably the only thing that will keep the Iranians from getting the bomb as well. The US shows no inclination to help.

587 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:53:47pm

re: #539 LudwigVanQuixote

Don't be fatuous. No one on the left ever accused Bush of secretly being an Israeli citizen. What is going on with the deligitimization of Obama is something different.

There is no doubt an element of racism.
On the other hand, Obama is not only the POTUS...he is also the self-proclaimed chief apologist to the entire world for past American foreign policy. It is therefore not surprising that many Americans do not appreciate the guilt trip he is leading and may mistakenly accuse him of having divided loyalties.

588 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:53:52pm

re: #581 Fozzie Bear
yeah sure whatever/

589 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:54:14pm

re: #233 beekiller

ah, so he's a piece of garbage since he's bragging about it years later. I've been hit on before but it never occurred to me to resort to violence. But then I'm not an insecure pathetic man so...

I remember after the Matthew Shepherd murders, one of my friends commented that if women went around killing everyone who hit on us when we didn't want them to, you wouldn't be able to walk for the bodies.

590 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:54:16pm

re: #575 Romantic Heretic

You have to remember that half of 'the people' are below average on the IQ Bell Curve. ;)

And the other half are above it.

591 freetoken  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:54:16pm

re: #578 tradewind

Sorry, but no, we did not stop Iraq from getting nukes. The nuclear claims was the least genuine on the list, in the run-up to the invasion.

592 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:54:39pm

re: #578 tradewind

We frakking well stopped Iraq from getting nukes. And no matter what side of the WMD argument you inhabit, both parties agreed that Saddam was after 'em.
Didn't get 'em, thanks to us.

That would be my assessment as well. We were, in fact, more successful than we realised, though seeing the tyrant hung put a permanent end to his ambitions.

Add Kwadaffy's surprise surrender, and the Syrian nuke site that the Israelis vapourised, and one could say the US & Israel have been successful in preventing three sociopathic regimes from gaining nukes.

Iran is next, one hopes.

593 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:54:55pm

Sometimes a balance of powers we don't like is better than a power vacuum caused by impulsive action. Every empire has to learn, and re-learn, and re-learn that lesson.

I'm just amazed at the number of people who don't get that.

594 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:55:18pm

re: #587 Spare O'Lake
But look.... now that we've done the cleaning up of our rep /magna mea culpa internationally, we're getting all sorts of cooperation from formerly snotty and balky nations who snubbed us.
Aren't we??

595 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:55:46pm

re: #568 Spare O'Lake

Hahaha...stop following me.
No problem with warning labels, that's not what was being discussed. And no one is suggesting that lethal doses of salt, sugar or anything else should be allowed in individual food servings. The issue of legislating maximum amounts of various ingredients in processed foods is, to me, an issue of personal responsibility and freedom of choice.
Perhaps folks should take a little time to shop for and eat more fresh meat and produce, instead of relying so heavily on heavily processed foods which must of necessity contain large amounts of preservatives and other ingredients to make the crap palatable.

I don't agree at all that processed foods must contain large quantities of salt. Salt as a preservative has been obsolete ever since the invention of pickling. Corn chips can be more or less salt free and still quite tasty. And the palate gets used to whatever regular fare is on offer. Even processed food.

And how important is it, really, that your crap sandwich be nice and salty so you can stomach it? Would you not be better off, all things considered, having that choice taken off your table?

596 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:55:57pm

re: #591 freetoken
Again, you answered without reading. I didn't say he had them. I said he was after them, and that is undeniable.

597 compound idaho  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:56:11pm

re: #575 Romantic Heretic

You have to remember that half of 'the people' are below average on the IQ Bell Curve. ;)

Was watching Meet the Press once many years ago. Oil company exec answering questions.

Journalist asks "Half of the oil companies charge less than the average price for gasoline. Why can't the other half?

598 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:56:29pm

Hopefully, elektramourns will have thick skin and return. I certainly don't agree with their comment but he/she apologized. There will always be that one person who picks out people to pick on relentlessly. They are on every blog and every forum. You either swing back or ignore them totally.

599 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:57:06pm

re: #579 Buck

Please throw up the CNN link to the transcript. The one I read said this:

"It’s created a division among a lot of people in the United States and for better or worse many people don’t believe he’s a U.S. citizen. They believe he has loyalties… ah… divided loyalties I suppose you could say."

Well that really would be the quote, and please don't play semantic games with me.

Which is not the GOP openly saying "he has divided loyalties".

Nonsense.

AND if you think we should read between the lines, well then you need to read "The Israel Lobby" and read between the lines.

I am never going to defend that Saudi funded propaganda piece - or any of the evil lies and distortions in it.

However you might notice that accusing Jews of not being loyal to their country, or secretly corrupting the governments of their countries, is a pass time that both the far left and the far right have always indulged in.

There are just as many Paulians and Buchanan types who would repeat the same smears from that piece of trash. Irrational hatred of Jews crosses ideological lines. It always has.

600 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:57:13pm

re: #597 compound idaho

Was watching Meet the Press once many years ago. Oil company exec answering questions.

Journalist asks "Half of the oil companies charge less than the average price for gasoline. Why can't the other half?

"Because you're a fucking idiot. Next question."

601 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:57:17pm

re: #595 lostlakehiker

Corn chips can be more or less salt free and still quite tasty.


Maybe to the squirrels.//

602 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:57:18pm

re: #588 tradewind

yeah sure whatever/

They didn't have nukes, and weren't even remotely close to developing them. Our intelligence agencies knew this. None of this is in contention, these are facts, well established.

603 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:57:46pm

re: #589 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember after the Matthew Shepherd murders, one of my friends commented that if women went around killing everyone who hit on us when we didn't want them to, you wouldn't be able to walk for the bodies.

And it's always the "pick of the crop" guys./

604 Racer X  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:57:52pm

re: #597 compound idaho

Was watching Meet the Press once many years ago. Oil company exec answering questions.

Journalist asks "Half of the oil companies charge less than the average price for gasoline. Why can't the other half?

*stare*
*blink blink*
*stare*

605 freetoken  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:58:02pm

re: #596 tradewind

Disagree. After Osirak, it appears as if Saddam was merely in the ruse business.

606 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:58:03pm

This isn't good.

Burning oil rig sinks in Gulf of Mexico

There are still 11 men missing.

And this really burns me.

"With rescue crews continuing to search for survivors, a federal lawsuit was filed Wednesday in New Orleans alleging the companies connected to the oil rig explosion were negligent. The suit was filed on behalf of one of the 11 missing men."

They haven't even had time to debrief the crew and some *deleted* has already convinced the wife of one of the missing men to file a lawsuit.

607 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:58:15pm

re: #596 tradewind

Again, you answered without reading. I didn't say he had them. I said he was after them, and that is undeniable.

Well, the fucker's dead...how the hell is he going to deny anything? In fact, I'll state right here that it's a fact that Saddam Hussein painted his toenails pink....what? No denial? Well, we stopped that fashion faux-pas.

608 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:58:29pm

re: #597 compound idaho

Was watching Meet the Press once many years ago. Oil company exec answering questions.

Journalist asks "Half of the oil companies charge less than the average price for gasoline. Why can't the other half?

Just another face palm moment.
Image: 851037-carl_2_athf_super.jpg

609 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:58:48pm

re: #596 tradewind

Again, you answered without reading. I didn't say he had them. I said he was after them, and that is undeniable.

And this matters why? Of course he wanted nukes. Since when does what a leader wants matter relative to what he is actually capable of? It's a non-argument.

610 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:58:50pm

re: #605 freetoken

Which seems like a popular, but really stupid game...

611 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:58:54pm

re: #545 windsagio

The only accusation like that I can think of that was levied much against the Bush admin was that members were more loyal to the major corporations than to the US.

But isn't that the Republican platform anyways?

Of course. Can anyone say Haliburton? After all, their stock holders needed better quarterly profits so much more than our boys in the field needed body armor!

612 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:59:50pm

re: #611 LudwigVanQuixote

To make a maybe unfair tie-in, its just like people on here defending the poor corporations against the EVIL FDA TELLING THEM WHAT THEY CAN PUT IN FOOD!

613 Racer X  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 1:59:56pm

C'mon guys. I can only scroll over so many comments.

614 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:00:12pm

re: #602 Fozzie Bear

They didn't have nukes, and weren't even remotely close to developing them. Our intelligence agencies knew this. None of this is in contention, these are facts, well established.

If Saddam had nukes, or was even close to having the chemical weapons we were told about, we wouldn't have invaded...period. We invaded Iraq because we knew he didn't have these capabilities. That was Bush's modus operandi. He wanted an easy victory...and he didn't plan for what to do after he got his easy victory.
(Cato can correct my Latin)

615 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:00:19pm

Wingnut hyperbole, exhibit #71,604

Godless infidel NCAA bans eyeblack Bible verses, repeals First Amendment! (Ok, not their headline)

As a huge sports fan I found it interesting over the weekend when I discovered that without so much as a whisper the National Collegiate Athletics Association (NCAA) sucker punched the First Amendment of the Constitution. Among the proposed rule changes rolled out by the NCAA for the upcoming year is a ban on messages that appear on eye-black. Eye-black is the gummy black tape like stuff that football players wear beneath their eyes to eliminate glare from light. It goes without saying that the most notorious player who adorned himself with eye-black was former all-world Florida Gator quarterback Tim Tebow who would always put a Bible scripture verse on his eye-black in hopes that he would - gasp - make a positive influence in someone's life. In fact in the 2009 National Title Game Tebow sported the infamous John 3:16 Bible Verse on his eye-black. The result, 90 million Google searches for the verse the next day.

616 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:00:27pm

re: #605 freetoken
Okay. If we had left him alone, I'm sure he would have been content to limit himself and his options. No nukes? No problem.
Really, he had that easy-to-please, whatever personality, I'm sure he'd never have caused another problem.

617 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:01:00pm

re: #613 Racer X

man up and read them :D

Well you can skip the Lost crap, and nobody will think less of you.


... Actually as I think of it, are we really arguing Iraqi WMD's again?

618 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:01:06pm

re: #591 freetoken

Sorry, but no, we did not stop Iraq from getting nukes. The nuclear claims was the least genuine on the list, in the run-up to the invasion.

You are forgetting Osirak, the first gulf war and the results of the pressure the US kept on Saddam. In total, it kept Saddam from having a bomb. The final invasion and hanging put an end to whatever bits of ambition he had left at that point. Agreed that post Osirak their was not much going on in the nuclear side.

However, it is clear that the pre-invasion efforts were very successful, which indicated that an Invasion of Iran is not the only way to interrupt their nuclear program.

619 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:01:17pm

Crap...call #4 of 5 today coming up now. BBL.

620 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:01:19pm

re: #589 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember after the Matthew Shepherd murders, one of my friends commented that if women went around killing everyone who hit on us when we didn't want them to, you wouldn't be able to walk for the bodies.

Amen to that. Why not take it as a compliment and just move on.

621 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:01:28pm

re: #612 windsagio

To make a maybe unfair tie-in, its just like people on here defending the poor corporations against the EVIL FDA TELLING THEM WHAT THEY CAN PUT IN FOOD!

Well that is exactly the kind of talk you heard the GOP make when those regulations affected corporate agriculture. And don't get them started on the EPA telling them that they can't dump toxic waste near playgrounds!

622 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:01:53pm

re: #562 Fozzie Bear

Imo, the Mullahs need an agressive US to maintain their rather fragile hold on power.

I think the chance of a revolution in Iran deposing the Mullahs is higher than most people tend to believe it is. The people of Iran are fairly moderate for the middle east. The less we rattle sabers, the less the Mullah's have with which to propagandize. The Iranians are posturing from a position of weakness, and are more interested in maintenance of power than Armageddon. If cooler heads could prevail, I think we would see that borne out.

Unfortunately there is no real evidence which bears out your wishful thinking. And in order for your optimism to be well-founded one would need to ignore the Iranian administration's own words and deeds.

623 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:02:00pm

re: #332 Walter L. Newton

I think it may have more to do with some people don't want to be told what they have to do with their body.

I think salt will still be readily available.

624 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:02:48pm

re: #614 darthstar

If Saddam had nukes, or was even close to having the chemical weapons we were told about, we wouldn't have invaded...period. We invaded Iraq because we knew he didn't have these capabilities. That was Bush's modus operandi. He wanted an easy victory...and he didn't plan for what to do after he got his easy victory.
(Cato can correct my Latin)

AND BTW,

OF COURSE WE KNEW HE HAD NO SUCH PROGRAM< BECAUSE ENRICHING URANIUM OR PRODUCING PLUTONIUM REQUIRES MASSIVE FACILITES THAT CAN NOT BE HIDDEN FROM ORBIT!

625 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:02:51pm

re: #621 LudwigVanQuixote

Or build housing developments over said dumps!

626 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:03:04pm

Once again on the topic of stupid, Birthers aren't stupid from being born that way. They had to study to get so stupid. Their stupidity is willful stupidity.

Intelligence doesn't need to engage with the actual question at hand if the answer to that question has no practical consequences. It can well be intelligent to give a laughably stupid answer if your peers will applaud that answer.

There are a lot of these echo-chamber stupidities going the round, and while this one is on the right, there are others that the left is partial to. For instance, how nuclear power is so dangerous and we could go ahead with it but there's no safe place to put the radioactive waste.

The leftists saying this aren't stupid. They're willfully stupid, which is different.

627 badger1970  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:03:04pm

re: #615 shiplord kirel

And the late Pete Rozelle banned Jim McMahon from messages on his sweatbands. In the NCAA Reggie Bush did the eye black message long before Tim Tebow did, besides wouldn't writing messages on eye black defeat the purpose of eye black?

628 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:03:11pm

re: #595 lostlakehiker

I don't agree at all that processed foods must contain large quantities of salt. Salt as a preservative has been obsolete ever since the invention of pickling. Corn chips can be more or less salt free and still quite tasty. And the palate gets used to whatever regular fare is on offer. Even processed food.

And how important is it, really, that your crap sandwich be nice and salty so you can stomach it? Would you not be better off, all things considered, having that choice taken off your table?

The point that we should, of course, take full responsibility for our food and what we eat is true. We should seek out better food and live healthier lifestyles. The counterpoint is that good regulations can help people to do that more easily, by making some common sense rules for companies to follow.

Sodium chloride as a preservative is rarely used in modern processed foods. However, most preservatives are still sodium salts, and it is the sodium itself that is the key ion for retention of water, increase in extracellular fluid, and high blood pressure as a result. So it doesn't have to be 'salt' salt, just sodium. There is also incentive for food manufacturers to have food be more salty, or sweet, or fatty, than it needs to be, because humans are biologically inclined to think sugar, salt and fat are tasty. Our bodies seek calories, and salt - thus, we like those tastes. It's the same reason a Big Mac has gotten so enormous - we like more food. Setting some common sense limits on this sort of arms race seems to me like a smart use of government regulations that still does not infringe on anyone's personal freedoms at all.

629 Racer X  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:03:57pm

re: #617 windsagio

man up and read them :D

Well you can skip the Lost crap, and nobody will think less of you.

... Actually as I think of it, are we really arguing Iraqi WMD's again?

Ha!

I'm intently reading the Lost crap!

I could care less about Iraq, or Haliburton, or some stupid congressman who voted to go to war and now says he didn't mean it but he got fooled by the evil genius Bush who somehow is still president. What is done is done. We won. The war is winding down. Get over it.

630 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:04:05pm

re: #624 LudwigVanQuixote

AND BTW,

OF COURSE WE KNEW HE HAD NO SUCH PROGRAM< BECAUSE ENRICHING URANIUM OR PRODUCING PLUTONIUM REQUIRES MASSIVE FACILITES THAT CAN NOT BE HIDDEN FROM ORBIT!

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE 'LUMINUM TOOBS!??!?!?!?!?

//

(Just pre-empting the obvious and retarded defense of our action in Iraq)

631 freetoken  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:04:21pm

re: #616 tradewind

You can hypothesize every minute for the rest of your life, but as near as I've been able to find out, after Osirak was made inoperable the dreams of Saddam's "Arab Bomb" went poof. Up in smoke. There simply wasn't any source of 235U or Pt available to him.

632 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:04:31pm

re: #528 Aceofwhat?

who said complete ban on salt? i sure as hell didn't...

My post that you replied to...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

...dealt with an article, with the link in the post, about a lone moonbat trying to ban salt, period, from all NY restaurants. Perhaps before posting about someones comment you should at least glance at the link they are discussing? (just a small suggestion)

633 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:04:49pm

re: #586 tradewind

Forgot to give Israel credit for the original take-out... Osirak was the salvation of the area at the time, and they were the only ones who had the stones to do it.
Looks like Osirak, part deux, is probably the only thing that will keep the Iranians from getting the bomb as well. The US shows no inclination to help.

Not at all, I said: "It seams likely Israel has interrupted both Iraq and Syria successfully." That is a reference to Osirak.

I agree that nothing short is likely to stop Iran.

634 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:04:57pm

re: #629 Racer X

sorry sorry. My own occasional guilt aside, it just kinda irks me when people do the 'hey guys don't fight!' thing >>

635 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:05:17pm

re: #625 windsagio

Or build housing developments over said dumps!

And really aren't those arsenic and mercury restrictions in drinking water that the EPA put up just a little too restrictive - Yes Bush did try to loosen those standards so that certain heavy GOP donating companies could dump arsenic and mercury into water systems that would effect a local reservoir.

636 Racer X  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:06:42pm

re: #634 windsagio

sorry sorry. My own occasional guilt aside, it just kinda irks me when people do the 'hey guys don't fight!' thing >>

Cool.

We can fight about something else then?

I really hate Frito Lay.

637 freetoken  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:06:49pm

re: #618 Bagua

We did not stop the French from selling or supporting Osirak. Once the Israelis had bombed it, there was no need of any US action. And, may I suggest the reason the Israelis bombed it is that they knew the US wouldn't.

You guys are trying really, really hard are this one.

638 tradewind  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:06:56pm

Out like the Dems after the midterms. Ya'll have a nice night.....


(Yeah I know, I posted this on the wrong thread before. Hate it when that happens.)

639 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:07:06pm

re: #636 Racer X

Me too, they put too much salt in their food!

640 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:07:40pm

re: #544 Obdicut

For irony, the one time I went sailing I got hit on the head by the jib boom and nearly died.

I wasn't cut out to be a snooty yachtsman.

Wow. A whack on the head that hard could turn someone into a progressive. //

641 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:08:03pm

re: #463 Spare O'Lake

That is very elititist of you. After all, what about the silent throngs of obese, out of shape, undisciplined, selfish folks who are too fucking lazy and irresponsible to even read the fucking labels. We must protect our stupid brethren even at the cost of our own freedom of choice.


You know, I could follow this argument better if this BS about 'freedom of choice' didn't keep coming up. This isn't about freedom of choice. It's about whether a piece of regulation is necessary or not.

642 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:08:23pm

To promote an alternate avenue of discussion, I provide this picture of Lucy Lawless in a silver mini-dress.

643 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:08:44pm

re: #641 SanFranciscoZionist

Its also about the fact that people can't separate regulating companies from regulating people.

644 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:08:45pm

re: #630 Fozzie Bear

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE 'LUMINUM TOOBS!??!?!?!?!?

//

(Just pre-empting the obvious and retarded defense of our action in Iraq)

Glad you brought it up.

If it takes 30,000 of those tubes a year to produce enough enriched uranium for a bomb, then 8 tubes will get the job done in just 3750 years!

As soon as Powell said that tubes on the backs of trucks were the "program" to the UN, every physicist knew, without doubt, that the administration was lying.

645 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:08:49pm

re: #631 freetoken

You can hypothesize every minute for the rest of your life, but as near as I've been able to find out, after Osirak was made inoperable the dreams of Saddam's "Arab Bomb" went poof. Up in smoke. There simply wasn't any source of 235U or Pt available to him.

That appears accurate, the point being that Osirak was possibly an example of preventing an evil regime from attaining nuclear weapons. What is debatable is what was necessary to keep it that way.

646 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:09:32pm

re: #642 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To promote an alternate avenue of discussion, I provide this picture of Lucy Lawless in a silver mini-dress.

Amazing what a change of do can do.

647 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:09:35pm

re: #637 freetoken

We did not stop the French from selling or supporting Osirak. Once the Israelis had bombed it, there was no need of any US action. And, may I suggest the reason the Israelis bombed it is that they knew the US wouldn't.

You guys are trying really, really hard are this one.

We guys? What am I trying really hard to do?

648 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:10:38pm

re: #642 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To promote an alternate avenue of discussion, I provide this picture of Lucy Lawless in a silver mini-dress.

Discipline me Zena, I've been an eeeeevil warlord!

649 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:10:53pm

re: #647 Bagua

Defend the tribe's accepted line of logic?

Its kinda odd, actually

650 Buck  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:11:39pm

re: #614 darthstar

If Saddam had nukes, or was even close to having the chemical weapons we were told about, we wouldn't have invaded...period. We invaded Iraq because we knew he didn't have these capabilities. That was Bush's modus operandi. He wanted an easy victory...and he didn't plan for what to do after he got his easy victory.
(Cato can correct my Latin)

Saddam fired Scuds at US forces in SA, and at Israel. Everyone in Israel was given gas masks, and people created sealed rooms. All the forces in SA were given gas masks and trained to use them.

You are really that sure that everyone knew there was no way any of these could have had chemical weapons?

Despite the fact that Saddam actually used chemical weapons against his own people? You are that sure?

651 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:11:43pm

re: #649 windsagio

Defend the tribe's accepted line of logic?

Its kinda odd, actually

What is kind odd is your meaningless comment.

652 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:12:24pm

re: #651 Bagua

No seriously, Its the only reason I can think that you're even having this argument.

Why is it so important to you otherwise? Just something to fight about on the 'net?

653 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:12:31pm

re: #575 Romantic Heretic

You have to remember that half of 'the people' are below average on the IQ Bell Curve. ;)

I am from the percentage of my high school class that made the top 80% possible.

654 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:12:46pm

Ban Argon!!

655 webevintage  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:13:12pm

re: #20 beekiller

This comment at Hot Air made me laugh.
Georgia bans chips being implanted in booties and bartering with chickens.

I called to make arrangements to pay my bill for the local clinic our GP belongs to monthly and asked if they would take chickens instead of $50 a month.
Yeah....no.

656 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:13:30pm

re: #646 SteveB4

Amazing what a change of do can do.

Better like this.

Or better like this

657 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:13:44pm

re: #652 windsagio

No seriously, Its the only reason I can think that you're even having this argument.

Why is it so important to you otherwise? Just something to fight about on the 'net?

What argument? We are discussing an issue, not having a fight Oprah.

658 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:13:48pm

re: #641 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I could follow this argument better if this BS about 'freedom of choice' didn't keep coming up. This isn't about freedom of choice. It's about whether a piece of regulation is necessary or not.

Thank you for saying that!

659 Mark Pennington  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:14:21pm

re: #620 beekiller

Amen to that. Why not take it as a compliment and just move on.

I meant the men hit on by men....

660 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:14:22pm

I added salt to a fake bologna, cheese and lettuce sandwich today.

Been watching... no helicopters.

661 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:14:27pm

re: #656 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #646 SteveB4


Better like this.

Or better like this

Normally I'm a sucker for brunettes, but I like her blonde.

662 windsagio  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:14:49pm

re: #657 Bagua

could keep playing but I really need some food. We can pick up when I get back if you want.

663 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:15:14pm

re: #579 Buck

Please throw up the CNN link to the transcript. The one I read said this:

"It’s created a division among a lot of people in the United States and for better or worse many people don’t believe he’s a U.S. citizen. They believe he has loyalties… ah… divided loyalties I suppose you could say."

Which is not the GOP openly saying "he has divided loyalties".

AND if you think we should read between the lines, well then you need to read "The Israel Lobby" and read between the lines.

The two things are not equivalent. THey're both real, and relevent, but they do not balance each other out.

664 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:15:43pm

re: #661 SteveB4

42 years old. Juuust right...

665 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:15:54pm

re: #661 SteveB4

Normally I'm a sucker for brunettes, but I like her blonde.

Curiously, normally I prefer blondes (as gentlemen do), but in her case I like her brunette.

We should fight about it on the internet.

666 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:16:02pm

re: #648 DaddyG

Discipline me Zena, I've been an eeevil warlord!

Xena with an X. Get it right you fool!

/

667 SpaceJesus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:16:06pm

hail satan

668 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:16:48pm

re: #665 Renaissance_Man
We should fight about it on the internet.


Ha ha! That is a great line.

669 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:16:55pm

Ohh and...

Happy Earth day! Protect, Mother Earth or she will take you with her when she checks out!!

670 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:16:56pm

re: #665 Renaissance_Man

re: #661 SteveB4


Curiously, normally I prefer blondes (as gentlemen do), but in her case I like her brunette.

We should fight about it on the internet.

haha!

671 Racer X  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:17:08pm

re: #667 SpaceJesus

hail satan sodium

/fixed

672 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:17:29pm

re: #656 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Better like this.

Or better like this


#2. I like a little meat on my warrior princesses.

673 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:17:39pm

re: #664 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #661 SteveB4

42 years old. Juuust right...

Agreed.

674 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:18:00pm

re: #641 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I could follow this argument better if this BS about 'freedom of choice' didn't keep coming up. This isn't about freedom of choice. It's about whether a piece of regulation is necessary or not.

What you call BS is not BS at all. How can you intelligently consider whether a regulation is necessary or not without considering the costs? Is it not a balancing exercise?

675 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:18:02pm

re: #662 windsagio

could keep playing but I really need some food. We can pick up when I get back if you want.

It would be an improvement if we could discuss the actual issues we are examining, and leave off the soap opera observations.

Iran's development of nuclear weapons is a serious and current issue. We need to examine, and learn the lessons of the history with Iraq, Syria, Libya, as well as the failures in NK and Pakistan/India.

676 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:18:07pm

re: #637 freetoken

We did not stop the French from selling or supporting Osirak. Once the Israelis had bombed it, there was no need of any US action. And, may I suggest the reason the Israelis bombed it is that they knew the US wouldn't.

You guys are trying really, really hard are this one.

The French also sent a team of technicians to Argentina after the Falklands war had broken out to help them get the Exocet anti-ship missiles they had bought working (really, the Argentines could not figure out how to make them work alone). They were directly responsible for the sinking of the HMS Sheffield and every other Exocet attack during the war.

The French killed a lot of British sailors, their supposed continental ally, but I guess that pales in comparison to making money selling technology and weapons to terrorists, dictators, and Theocracies.

Fuck France, the greedy amoral bastards.

677 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:18:22pm

re: #666 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Xena with an X. Get it right you fool!

/


My bad. I should be spanked with a riding crop (gently).

678 Buck  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:18:22pm

re: #663 SanFranciscoZionist

The two things are not equivalent. THey're both real, and relevent, but they do not balance each other out.

Well, I don't think that some state GOP Pol saying that some "people" think that way is anywhere near representing that the GOP is openly saying it.

But fine, obviously I don't speak the same version of English as you.

679 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:20:01pm

re: #643 windsagio

Its also about the fact that people can't separate regulating companies from regulating people.

Well, that's what happens when the Supreme Court says that corporations ARE people.

680 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:20:07pm

re: #649 windsagio

Defend the tribe's accepted line of logic?

Its kinda odd, actually

You must be from the dia-tribe.

681 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:20:24pm

And then we have skin-tight spandex versus naughty school girl.

682 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:20:33pm

Somebody set us up the bomb.
Mystery rocket explodes in Jordan
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

A rocket has exploded near the southern Jordanian city of Aqaba, damaging a warehouse but causing no casualties.

The rocket was one of two fired early on Thursday which landed in Jordanian territory - the other fell into the Red Sea.

There are conflicting reports as to where the rockets were launched.

683 badger1970  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:21:22pm

William Shanter for Governor General

Governor General William Shatner. It's got a nice ring to it.

"It's time for Canada to boldly go where no country has gone before," notes a nearly 10,000-strong Facebook group that supports the idea.

"Imagine Mr. Shatner reading the speech from the throne in that classic Captain Kirk style we have all come to know and love."

SNIP

684 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:21:45pm

re: #669 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh and...

Happy Earth day! Protect, Mother Earth or she will take you with her when she checks out!!

HIPPIE!

685 Digital Display  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:22:52pm

Good afternoon Lizards..Today's thought for the day
People laugh at me cause I'm different, I laugh at them because they are all the same.

686 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:22:53pm

re: #682 bosforus

Somebody set us up the bomb.
Mystery rocket explodes in Jordan
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]


Its not fair that the US and Russia got all the good German rocket scientists after WWII. //

687 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:22:54pm

re: #682 bosforus

Somebody set us up the bomb.
Mystery rocket explodes in Jordan
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

"YUSUF! Were you looking at the degrees or the mils on the compass?"
"What are the mils?"
"You son of a gangrenous goat!"

688 bosforus  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:23:00pm

re: #669 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh and...

Happy Earth day! Protect, Mother Earth or she will take you with her when she checks out!!

I'm already planning on taking her with me when I check out.

689 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:23:01pm

re: #681 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And then we have skin-tight spandex versus naughty school girl.

My first thought when looking at those pictures: I wonder what Lucy thinks of current government spending?

Okay, not really.

690 badger1970  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:23:34pm

re: #686 DaddyG

The Right Stuff ?

691 Bagua  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:23:53pm

re: #637 freetoken

We did not stop the French from selling or supporting Osirak. Once the Israelis had bombed it, there was no need of any US action. And, may I suggest the reason the Israelis bombed it is that they knew the US wouldn't.

You guys are trying really, really hard are this one.

To be clear, when I assert "we" were successful in stopping Iraq, Libya and Syria, I mean both Israel and the US, our side. Whether acting alone, in co-operation or just looking the other way, the end result has been to thwart the nuclear programs in those three countries.

I also agree fully that Osirak was the single most important event in terms of stopping Iraq. The invasion of Iraq was the single most important thing stopping Libya.

692 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:24:13pm

re: #685 HoosierHoops

Good afternoon Lizards..Today's thought for the day
People laugh at me cause I'm different, I laugh at them because they are all the same.


Be a nonconformist. All the kids are doing it!

693 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:25:04pm

re: #690 badger1970

The Right Stuff ?


Just random sarcasm.

694 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:25:23pm

re: #674 Spare O'Lake

What you call BS is not BS at all. How can you intelligently consider whether a regulation is necessary or not without considering the costs? Is it not a balancing exercise?

I think that regulating packaged foods is, perhaps, not the place to start getting freaked out about personal freedoms.

695 compound idaho  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:26:08pm

re: #685 HoosierHoops

Good afternoon Lizards..Today's thought for the day
People laugh at me cause I'm different, I laugh at them because they are all the same.

I drink to make others interesting

696 badger1970  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:26:14pm

re: #693 DaddyG

I just remember that line from it.

697 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:26:43pm

Going to the Comedy Central bend over and take it thread...

Please bring the Lucy Lawless photos with you.

698 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:27:08pm

re: #688 bosforus

I'm already planning on taking her with me when I check out.

Now that is a very Republican view.

699 DaddyG  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:27:20pm

re: #696 badger1970

I just remember that line from it.


It could be subconscious plagarism- I haven't seen the film in years.

700 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:27:32pm

re: #684 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

HIPPIE!

I wear a ponytail too!

701 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:27:47pm

re: #685 HoosierHoops


A friend of mine had a habit of saying "You're weird!" to me. One day I said, "Yeah? Well you're normal."

702 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:28:39pm

re: #694 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that regulating packaged foods is, perhaps, not the place to start getting freaked out about personal freedoms.

Tell that to a healthy Cheeto addict.

703 Buck  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:28:56pm

re: #697 DaddyG

Going to the Comedy Central bend over and take it thread...

Please bring the Lucy Lawless photos with you.

Have you seen her in the Spartacus TV series....?

704 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:29:59pm

re: #683 badger1970

Canada Negotiator! (with proper theme music)

705 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:30:17pm

Ohh and hey hoops!

706 Digital Display  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:30:59pm

re: #705 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh and hey hoops!


hi Ludwig..Hope today finds you well

707 Kragar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:35:44pm

re: #703 Buck

Have you seen her in the Spartacus TV series...?

Waiting for the whole thing to complete so I can watch the series in one go.

I have seen "highlights" however.

708 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:38:25pm

Finally someone says it. They are stupid. They're just like the truthers.

709 darthstar  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:51:50pm

re: #650 Buck

Saddam fired Scuds at US forces in SA, and at Israel. Everyone in Israel was given gas masks, and people created sealed rooms. All the forces in SA were given gas masks and trained to use them.

You are really that sure that everyone knew there was no way any of these could have had chemical weapons?

Despite the fact that Saddam actually used chemical weapons against his own people? You are that sure?

You're confusing 1991 and 2003. Those were two different Iraqs in two different decades. The Irish (Celts, specifically) used to run into battle butt-nekkid to intimidate their opponents. They don't do that any more either.

710 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:53:58pm

re: #676 ausador

The French also sent a team of technicians to Argentina after the Falklands war had broken out to help them get the Exocet anti-ship missiles they had bought working (really, the Argentines could not figure out how to make them work alone). They were directly responsible for the sinking of the HMS Sheffield and every other Exocet attack during the war.

The French killed a lot of British sailors, their supposed continental ally, but I guess that pales in comparison to making money selling technology and weapons to terrorists, dictators, and Theocracies.

Fuck France, the greedy amoral bastards.

Well, I love France despite their faults, but I don't love their faults. Here's another fault: they directly assisted the genocide in Rwanda, with soldiers and officers in "mufti" directly firing on civilian Hutus. The Wall Street Journal had a long and careful article giving chapter and verse proof of this grave charge, a few months ago.

711 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 2:56:44pm

re: #641 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I could follow this argument better if this BS about 'freedom of choice' didn't keep coming up. This isn't about freedom of choice. It's about whether a piece of regulation is necessary or not.

Here we are agreeing on something. Go figure.

712 donna quixote  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 3:26:13pm

I guess I'm the one who is stupid but I fail to see why insisting on proof of birth isn't the very least that should be required of anyone wishing to run for president of the United States. All this brouhaha seems rather like the story of the emperor who had no clothes.

713 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 3:33:24pm

re: #712 donna quixote

I guess I'm the one who is stupid but I fail to see why insisting on proof of birth isn't the very least that should be required of anyone wishing to run for president of the United States. All this brouhaha seems rather like the story of the emperor who had no clothes.

the present guy has provided such evidence.

the brouhaha is manufactured crap to frighten stoopid white people.

714 mlgblg  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 4:08:02pm

re: #655 webevintage

I called to make arrangements to pay my bill for the local clinic our GP belongs to monthly and asked if they would take chickens instead of $50 a month.
Yeah...no.

my husband is a retired internist in a little town of 3500. people actually paid us with veggies, etc. only thing is, could not pay bills with food.

715 ryannon  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 4:13:35pm

re: #685 HoosierHoops

Good afternoon Lizards..Today's thought for the day
People laugh at me cause I'm different, I laugh at them because they are all the same.

Is that you, Bob?

716 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 5:06:44pm

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

What an asshole. Denialism is bad enough, but that douche is actively trying to make things worse. Is it wrong to think that Ludwig should get to kick Carlson in the balls?

re: #143 Lidane

It couldn't hurt. Much. Hell, Ludwig might even improve Tucker's dancing skills if he kicks hard enough.

I'm in a good mood. Seeing crap like that will want to make me kick the shit out of someone.

717 Aye Pod  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 6:20:30pm

re: #460 Aceofwhat?

My mom, who is a doctor (an internist, if you must know), rails about this all the time.

Catch up yourself. Science is fun.

If you have hypertension or are otherwise at risk of being harmed by excessive sodium intake, you should monitor your sodium intake.

Am I really, really asking too much? Really?

Idiotic.

I didn't know that only some humans could be harmed by excessive salt intake. But then I only studied biology at university. It's not like my mom was a doctor or anything.

718 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 8:31:20pm

re: #325 YoungLibertarian93

Hi.

Here's an upding.

Link, Link, downding, Lizard!

BWAHAHAHAHA!
XD

719 enigma3535  Thu, Apr 22, 2010 8:32:14pm

I tried, to no avail, creating an account at Hot Air and logging in to post this ... so ... here it is:

Dudes and dudetts:

Since the facts that both the Governor of Hawaii distinctly made a certain proclamation that Pres. Obama was born in his state coupled with the said State's Dept responsible for digitalizing his birth certificate, proclaimed that he, in fact, was born in said state; further coupled with the fact that his birth was announced in, apparently, 2 newspapers in Hawaii within a day or 2 of the date of the official records that the State has officially confirmed he was born in ... and many of you'all still seem to think he was born in Kenya [to some degree owing to a reporter asking one of his relations in Kenya, through an interpreter, whether she was present for the Birth, and she said "yes", and recanted once the interpreter qualified the question ... and that this reporter's exchange with said relative has been described as a "deposition" ... which lends legal-eze like cred to something that is pure crap ... not withstanding ... pls GET A GRIP.

Whatever ... like all those facts matter ... stupid me.

Then ... regarding the reality of what ser Obama inherited as president ... blame him 1st seems to work for the simple-minded looking for excuses for why their world view is not resonating with the electorate.

IMHO: you'all need to look up the definition of "socialism" [those who think Obama is a communist are too bat-shite crazy for anything I might post, to matter] ... whatever Obama's agenda is ... it ain't Socialism. It is a blend of targeted programs, within a capitalist set of structures, monitored by government agencies, that deal with a very bad set of circumstances [like, the worst circumstances since WW2].

Reality may suk ... but it is what it is ...

720 ClaudeMonet  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:13:08am

re: #110 DaddyG

No matter what they tell you WD-40 really isn't a universal lubricant and Duct Tape won't fix everything. //

No, but in theater (my hobby) they go a long way toward fixing most problems. If it moves and shouldn't, duct tape it; if it doesn't move and should, WD-40 it.

721 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:29:53am

I love to see you liberals squirm. You guys are obviously afraid of this issue... a "non-issue," right? lol

The Constitution requires one to be a "Natural Born Citizen" to be President. NBC = 1) Born on U.S. soil ***AND*** 2) Born to two U.S. citizen parents.

Obama could have been born in the Lincoln bedroom, and he'd still be ineligible because his father was never a U.S. citizen. (And, as an aside, Obama's mother was too young to confer U.S. citizenship status automatically to the baby.)

But just for the hell of it anyway, I think I'll go ahead and "stupidly" ask why Obama won't simply release his long-form birth certificate and lay that particular matter to rest? What is he hiding? Does one even exist?

Can you imagine if there was a whiff of a rumor that George Bush was born in Austria... Don't you think LGF and all the news outlets would be all over that?!

Again - The birth certificate designation of birthplace doesn't really matter, Constitutionally, because Obama is not a NBC of the USA.

Oh, and does anyone happen to know why the Minister of Lands, James Orengo, bragged about Obama's Kenyan birth during Parliamentary debate on March 25, 2010?

See 2nd paragraph, p. 31: [Link: www.parliament.go.ke...]

Look at it quick before it gets scrubbed AGAIN.

Now, I'll just sit back and wait for all the intelligent ad-hominem attacks from the brilliant legal minds here at LGF!

722 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:38:58am

re: #721 May31st

Lol. Prove to me that you exist and are not some kind of bot.
XD

723 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:40:40am

re: #722 Varek Raith

To Varek - What would you like from me to verify? I have my birth certificate here... Will that do?

724 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:41:31am

re: #723 May31st

To Varek - What would you like from me to verify? I have my birth certificate here... Will that do?

How do we know it isn't a forgery?

725 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:41:42am

re: #723 May31st

To Varek - What would you like from me to verify? I have my birth certificate here... Will that do?

Nope. I don't trust your state's version of the certificate.

726 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:43:15am

re: #724 ausador

You're not really interested in a meaningful debate, are you?

If you read my above post, then you know that the Birth Certificate - while significant, and ought to be released - is not the central issue.

Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S., and is therefore ineligible for the Presidency.

727 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:44:01am

re: #726 May31st

So you don't trust the Hawaiian government issued certificate?

728 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:44:54am

re: #725 Varek Raith

btw - your remark is cute, but inaccurate. The Hawaiian COLB is NOT the same thing as a Hawaiian birth certificate. I know Anderson Cooper wants you to actually believe that...

729 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:46:09am

Whether I trusre: #727 Varek Raith

Whether I trust that document or not is moot. I can trust in an apple as much as I want, but that doesn't make it an orange.

730 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:46:19am

re: #726 May31st

Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S., and is therefore ineligible for the Presidency.

Sure he is, it has been explained so many times by so many people that it is sickening. The fact that you are unable to accept reality is not my problem, or Obama's, it is yours alone.

731 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:46:42am

BWHAHAHAHAHA!
XD

732 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:46:47am
733 Sinistershade  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:47:23am

re: #721 May31st

The Constitution requires one to be a "Natural Born Citizen" to be President. NBC = 1) Born on U.S. soil ***AND*** 2) Born to two U.S. citizen parents.

What's your basis for this definition?

734 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:47:36am

Very well, then. I know salute President Joe Biden.

735 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:48:33am

re: #734 Varek Raith

Very well, then. I know salute President Joe Biden.

Failedy fail fail!

736 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:49:48am

re: #730 ausador

I apologize for sickening you. I really do.

But would you mind explaining to me how a person with a foreign father can be a natural born citizen?

Please do not confuse natural born citizen - a very specific term - with the generic term, "citizen." They are not the same.

Thank you.

737 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 12:52:14am

re: #733 Sinistershade

Vattel's Law of Nations, the source used by the founding fathers in the writing of the Constitution. Incidentally, this was the book that was in the news just recently that George Washington apparently had checked out from the library, but failed to return.

In book one chapter 19, § 212.

Of the citizens and natives.

“The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.”

738 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:00:01am

re: #736 May31st

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

re: #737 May31st

Cute, quote a 17th century book as evidence instead of the applicable U.S. laws and what it says in the Constitution. Your not very good at this trolling thing are you?

739 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:06:02am

re: #738 ausador

Snopes... Are you serious? When this finally gets to the Supreme Court, I'm sure Obama's lawyers will whip out Snopes. lol

I'm quoting a central text used by our founding fathers to influence the shaping of our republic. There's nothing "cute" about that.

740 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:06:44am

re: #737 May31st

Yes, and written almost 300 years ago. During that time America has progressed away from such sexist writings that only considers the citizenship of the father. President Obama's mother was born and bread American and that is sufficient enough regardless.

We have several aspects regarding this case. One, his mother was a natural born citizen. Two, jus soli. Three, birthright citizenship. Four, Hawaiian birth certificate. Five, the Honolulu Advertiser birth announcement and so on.

741 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:07:43am

We have Orly Taitz in here now.

742 Sinistershade  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:08:33am

re: #737 May31st

A fine book, no doubt, but not one with any standing in U.S. law. The term is undefined in the U.S. Constitution. I suggest you look to the various U.S. Supreme Court rulings that suggest a "natural born citizen" is one born within the jurisdiction of the United States:

Dred Scott v. Sanford (1857)
United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898)
Perkins v. Elg (1939)

In particular, note this passage from United States v. Wong Kim Ark:

It thus clearly appears that by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country, and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born. III. The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the constitution as originally established.

743 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:13:29am

re: #739 May31st

Nope, but they would quote the same laws that Snopes is citing to explain why nothing you have said is anything more than make believe on your part. Besides which it will never get to the Supreme Court because they wont ever give it a Writ of Certiorari (they wont hear the case).

744 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:14:45am

re: #740 Gus 802

1) his mother was a natural born citizen - True, but moot. She only needed to be a citizen. What about HIS FATHER?!?!?

2) Jus soli - And...... what about jus sanguinis? Helllooooooo!

3) birthright citizenship - That is for citizenship, not natural born citizenship, amigo. Don't confuse the two, like Anderson Cooper.

4) Hawaiian birth certificate - Really? Where? Certainly you don't mean the COLB again! That's only a receipt indicating that a child was born.... somewhere. You did know that Hawaii used to issue those to out of state/country births, didn't you? That's why this damn this is soooo fishy! He needs to release a copy of his long-form birth certificate. Why hasn't he done that?

5) Honolulu Advertiser - No proposed Manchurian conspiracy here. The paper issues a standard birth announcement whenever it receives data from the State Health Dept. In other words, once Hawaii put something on file accounting for little Barry, WHETHER HE WAS BORN IN HI OR NOT - the newspapers were notified by the state agency. Those damn ads don't indicate where he was born, only that he WAS born!

745 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:15:43am

Original Obama birth certificate unearthed in Harvard Law School library
Birthers seize on document as evidence of "unconstitutional" presidency

The following article was originally published in the Harvard Law Record's 2010 April Fool's Day edition and was intended as satire. Many of the comments from birthers that follow, however, are very real.

Harvard Law School librarians made a stunning discovery in a long-sealed chamber in the basement of Langdell Hall Monday night, when they indicated they had found what they believed to be a copy of President Barack Obama’s original certificate of live birth. Individuals who believe the president’s extra-American birth invalidates his presidency rapidly seized on the document as further proof for their claims, flocking to courts to seek injunctions on a number of executive orders and bills recently signed into law, including the vaunted health care reform act. HLS archivists said that the birth certificate was “no doubt” the original copy submitted by the sitting President upon his enrollment in the law school in 1988.

Although copies of the President’s birth certificate have long been posted online and certified by government officials in his home state, many doubt its provenance, claiming that the online document is merely a “certificattion of live birth” rather than a “birth certificate”. Others claim to have seen birth certificates placing Obama’s birth in Mombasa, Kenya (Obama’s father was a Kenyan citizen), or other foreign locations, such as Indonesia, where Obama lived as a child. The President’s political opponents occasionally mock him as a “citizen of the British Empire,” a reference to Kenya’s status in 1961, the year of his birth.

These so-called “birthers” were stunned but unfazed when the Harvard Law School copy of the birth certificate pointed them not to Kenya, Indonesia, or some other site of speculation, but the Pacific Ocean island chain of Hawaii. “I knew it,” wrote blogger ObamaIzaF8ke2273. “Obama was born outside the United States. We just didn’t know exactly where. Until now.”

The Hawaiian Islands, which lack pro sports teams, are literally off the radar screen for many Americans. In the wake of the tsunami warnings issued for the islands after the devastating earthquake in Chile in February, even CNN anchor Rick Sanchez could not locate the islands on a map, instead pointing to the Galapagos, an Ecuadorian possession several hundred nautical miles to the southeast. The fact the Hawaii appears to float in a box next to the lower 48 American states on maps has made the location of the archipelago all the more inscrutable for the U.S.’ geographically-challenged populace.

The islands’ long and complex history also makes their current political status confusing for many Americans, who are not aware of their place in the international system. A National Geographic survey released in 2008 indicated that there was a shocking correlation between those who could not attest to the system of government in Hawaii and those who believed that the government of Alaska conducted an independent foreign policy.

“The evidence is now clear,” wrote a commenter on the influential conservative website RedState.com Wednesday. “Obama is no American. He’s the subject of the Hawaiian king.”

746 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:16:01am

re: #742 Sinistershade

The Constitution is not a dictionary. It doesn't define mere "citizen" either, but you presume its meaning.

747 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:17:02am

re: #744 May31st

You're missing a few cards aren't you.

748 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:21:46am

Some Googling

May31st

When is FOX going to wake up and realize that this REALLY IS a major issue? And it has NOTHING to do with the color of his skin.
The Constitution requires a person to be not just a "citizen," but a a "Natural Born" citizen in order to hold the office of President.
NBC = 1) born on U.S. soil AND 2) born to two parents who were U.S. citizens.
Obama fails on point #2 because his father was Kenyan. And very well may also fail on point #1... Let's see the birth certificate! (not the COLB - the long form birth certificate!)
Monday, April 05, 2010 at 09:43 AM

749 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:22:53am

May31st

There are already reports "leaking" out about Obama's rising cholesterol and smoking... This will be his cover for not running for re-election.
But the fact is, he is not a natural born citizen, and is ineligible for the POTUS. Moreover, he does not even have a Hawaii birth certificate.
British SKY news is reporting that O's birth certificate was destroyed in a fire
Yeah right!
The Hawaii Birth Index has no listings of anyone born in 1961 under the names Obama, Payne, Soetoro or Dunham.
Check it out, people!
Monday, March 01, 2010 at 09:31 AM

750 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:24:45am

re: #747 Gus 802

You're missing a few cards aren't you.

But damn it man! The law should say and mean what May31st wants it to mean! Never mind that Fourteenth amendment crap and all those previous court rulings!

/bwahahaha, someone's tin foil is wrapped a little too tight I think.

751 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:26:03am

re: #750 ausador

But damn it man! The law should say and mean what May31st wants it to mean! Never mind that Fourteenth amendment crap and all those previous court rulings!

/bwahahaha, someone's tin foil is wrapped a little too tight I think.

Yeah. Apparently a book read by a few "founding fathers" supersedes the SCOTUS.

752 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:26:44am

This is fun.
:evilgrin:

753 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:27:13am

re: #752 Varek Raith

This is fun.
:evilgrin:

Oh look! More.

754 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:28:42am

re: #742 Sinistershade

Yeah, I'd be interested to see what you can dig up from the Dred Scott case... hmmm.

But these might be of interest to you:

The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)
Shanks v. Dupont, 28 U.S. 3 Pet. 242 242 (1830)
Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875)

Cite Vattel favorably. Interestingly, Wong Kim Ark does too:

In this case the Justice Gray gave the opinion of the court. On p. 168-9 of the record, He cites approvingly the decision in Minor vs. Happersett:
At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.

755 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:28:46am

Freeper!!!!
:D

756 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:30:21am

re: #755 Varek Raith

Freeper!!!
:D

Where's teh long form!11!!

To: JustaDumbBlonde
Ma'am, we're not "birthers." We're constitutionalists. And if you gave a damn about our country, you would be too. It doesn't matter where BO was born. His father was Kenyan. Therefore, BO is not a Natural Born citizen. NBC = 1) Born on U.S. soil, AND 2) Born to two U.S. citizens. BO fails on count #2. And quite likely also on count #1. So, he's ineligible. Checkmate. FAIL. Oh, but just while we're passing by the subject anyway... just for curiosity's sake... Let's see BO's long-form birth certificate.
43 posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:59:45 AM by May31st
[ Post Reply %P% Private Reply %P% To 41 %P% View Replies]

757 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:30:32am

re: #750 ausador

Again, you're confusing citizenship with natural born citizenship.

The 14th Amendment is moot with regard to NBC.

Nice try, though.

758 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:32:05am

re: #748 Gus 802

Oh man! I'm soooooooo busted!!!!

Geez, I should have known that if I wrote something on the internet, those sneaky LGFootballers would find me out! LOL!

Well, I guess I'll keep my blogging limited to ONLY HERE! :)

759 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:33:20am

re: #756 Gus 802

And your point is.................

At least I'm unashamedly consistent.

Do you have anything of material value to add to the debate?

760 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:34:38am

re: #758 May31st

Oh man! I'm sooo busted!!!

Geez, I should have known that if I wrote something on the internet, those sneaky LGFootballers would find me out! LOL!

Well, I guess I'll keep my blogging limited to ONLY HERE! :)

Dude.

A) You're a noob.
B) You come in here trolling.
C) Not only do you start out by trolling right away but you're a damn birther.

I owe nothing to you because you're first and foremost a noob. That you're sounding like a "Freeped out" Orly Taitz fan makes matters even worse.

761 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:35:54am

re: #752 Varek Raith

What's your point? Win the debate on merits. C'mon, I've visited this site many, many times over the last couple of years. I don't often agree with the perspectives here, but you are all THINKING people. Engage me...

762 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:38:13am

re: #761 May31st

What's your point? Win the debate on merits. C'mon, I've visited this site many, many times over the last couple of years. I don't often agree with the perspectives here, but you are all THINKING people. Engage me...

Heh, be honest. You'd ignore any evidence to the contrary of your belief that Obama is ineligible to be PotUS.

763 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:39:26am

re: #762 Varek Raith

Heh, be honest. You'd ignore any evidence to the contrary of your belief that Obama is ineligible to be PotUS.

Yeah, I wouldn't see the point. Not given his obsessed history with this topic. It's like arguing with people that wanted to impeach Bush/Cheney.

764 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:39:52am

re: #761 May31st

Why would we want to spend all night trying to have a serious discussion with a person who will not entertain facts? Since there is obviously no possibly chance of getting you to move from your position in the slightest it is more sensible (not to mention fun) to just "play" with you.

765 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:40:18am

Code Pink Birther™

766 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:43:03am

re: #760 Gus 802

I never said you owed me anything. You didn't have much to offer, anyway, as I've come to find out.

Trolling - I guess I thought that was something else. I've been a frequent visitor on this site for the last two years. I only registered tonight, because I saw an article that interested me and wanted to engage people on it. Is that trolling? If so - guilty!

Trolling right away... Is there a way to troll gradually? I wonder what that would look like...

"Birther" is a convenient Alinsky label. I'm just an average Joe that cares about our country, probably like you. Because I don't agree with you politically, that earns me a derogatory label? What happened to debate in our country?

I do have questions about where Obama was born. It doesn't help that his wife called Kenya his "home country" or that the Kenyan Parliament has, at least twice, cited Kenya as Obama's birthplace.

But as I've tried to say in earlier posts, I believe the Constitution calls for a more stringent qualification than mere birthplace - one of parentage, too.

I just can't help but to think of how the media would be all over Bush like white on rice if there was the slightest hint that he was born out of this country, or that one of his parents never became citizens here...

767 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:45:21am

re: #765 Gus 802

Code Pink Birther™

Just wait till Obama gets re-elected in 2012 (which, so far at least, seems distinctly possible) then his brain will completely melt.

768 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:47:29am

re: #762 Varek Raith
"Evidence" and "facts" ... hmmmm.... that does indeed seem to be the problem here. I don't think the things being held up as facts and evidence to support Obama's NBC eligibility hold water. But thanks for trying, anyway.

I am interested in that Dred Scott decision, though. I'll have to go look it up.

770 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:49:37am

re: #766 May31st

Let's see. You just registered and instead of trying to meld in you start in with the birther crap right off the bat. The word we historically used at LGF is nirther. Given that you've read this blog as you claimed above you already know that we're hostile towards birthers, nirthers, e-i-e-i-o. You know exactly why you came here and that was to troll, flame, and bait. I've seen this shit before.

Alinsky? You want Alinsky labels? Try moonbats, Commies, socialists, and whatever else fits your needs. Alinsky is relative. Don't give me that Alinsky martyrdom card because I've played by those rules on both sides.

You also came in here with guns blazing during the LNDT hours. I'm sure since you've been reading this blog for years you know what the LNDT stands for.

771 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:50:13am
772 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:51:18am

re: #766 May31st

If you have been coming here for as long as you say then you should know our host's views on vocal and opinionated truthers, birthers, and creationists. They are neither welcomed nor tolerated by Charles, hence when your first post out of gate is birther gibberish then yes, that is automatically considered to be trolling.

773 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:51:44am

So there's a vast conspiracy among the Judicial Branch to keep this a secret?

774 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:53:10am
775 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:54:38am

re: #770 Gus 802

Lithuanian National Drama Theatre?

Sorry - I forgot that this is the table where all the cool people sit in the cafeteria!

And I do apologize for blazing my guns about birther/nirther stuff. My bad. It was a birther/nirther thread. Sorry for offering a different perspective than yours. You've got to keep us nirthers away from the cool people at your table.

Dude, I don't think you realize just how juvenile you sound! lol

776 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:54:49am

re: #773 Varek Raith

So there's a vast conspiracy among the Judicial Branch to keep this a secret?

You've seen the "moon landings" haven't you?

/

777 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:56:14am

Looks like Stinky is in the house.

778 May31st  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:56:32am

re: #776 Gus 802

Goodnight guys. It's almost 4am here in central TX. Gotta go. I know you'll miss me. ha ha

779 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:56:35am

re: #777 Gus 802

Looks like Stinky is in the house.

Indeed.

780 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:56:53am

re: #778 May31st

Yeah, whatever.

781 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:57:18am

re: #778 May31st

Goodnight guys. It's almost 4am here in central TX. Gotta go. I know you'll miss me. ha ha

Aw, man don't go!
It's 5AM where I am.
:P

782 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:58:52am

re: #781 Varek Raith

Aw, man don't go!
It's 5AM where I am.
:P

You can't leave now! We just got to the crux of the problem.

/

783 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:04:31am

Here's my controversial solution to the birther stupidity:

Get rid of the natural born citizen requirement. French president Nicolas Sárközy was born in Hungary. I think a modern society should be able to figure out whether or not a candidate is a sincere American regardless of where they were born. I say that as a foreign born American. Back when Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger was popular with the right wing even the right was support such changes.

Odd how people's views change. Or maybe not so odd.

784 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:05:57am

Natural born requirements feeds into nativism and xenophobia.

785 Sinistershade  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:12:06am

re: #754 May31st

From the Dred Scott dissent:

The first section of the second article of the Constitution uses the language, 'a natural born citizen.' It thus assumes that citizenship may be acquired by birth. Undoubtedly, this language of the Constitution was used in reference to that principle of public law, well understood in this country at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, which referred citizenship to the place of birth.

Venus does not quote Vattel with regard to the definition of "natural born citizen," but with regard to the status of a foreign national residing in a country. The court itself never addresses the term "natural born citizen."

I don't see Vattel in Shanks, but the case never attempts to define "natural born citizen," though the majority opinion does suggest that a minor might be deemed to carry the father's citizenship while underage and residing in the father's home.

I also don't see Vattel in Minor, but the decision states that the common-law definition of "natural born citizen" is in dispute and explicitly chooses not to decide the issue:

The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts.

I notice that in your quote you conveniently leave out the rest of that section of Minor that makes clear the common-law definition is disputable. After that sort of intellectual dishonesty, I'm done with you.

786 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:43:11am

How about if we just keep it simple and look at the very first sentence of Section 1 of the 14th Amendment?

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

So if you are born in the United States you are automatically a citizen of the United States irregardless of your parents ages or nationalities.

Since simply by being born you become a citizen, aren't you also then a Natural Born Citizen?

Regardless of the definition given in 17th century books and the rest of the smokescreen these people like to throw out, (like the thing about his mothers age when they know that only applies to a person born outside the of United States), the 14th Amendment is part of the constitution and is now the law of the United States of America.

These people will never be honest about their motivation, otherwise they wouldn't have to add disclaimers like "and I'm not arguing this just because he is black."

/Blech :(

787 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 9:34:34am

re: #778 May31st

Get the hell off my website, you idiot.

788 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 9:47:25am

Ugh. Birthers.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh