Announcing: Little Green Linkage

Technology • Views: 12,986

Today I’m unveiling the new Little Green Footballs Linkage page, redesigned and enhanced, with new features that make it very simple to post links from any site. We’ve had “spinoff links” for a while now; this is an extension of that feature.

Without further ado, here’s the new page: LGF Linkage. There’s a permanent button leading to this page, located at the top of the LGF front page right sidebar.

The first thing you’ll notice compared to the previous “Linkviewer” page: it now uses what web geeks call a “liquid” design that automatically stretches to fill the size of your browser window.

In the top panel where the logo is located, click the LGF logo to go back to the LGF front page, or the word “Linkage” to go back to the front page of LGF Linkage.

The links posted by LGF users appear in the left column; each link has a rating panel for other registered users to rate it up or down, and icons at the upper right for saving the link in your “My Favorites” page, or reporting it to an administrator. The number of clicks on each link is also shown.

Each link also has its own individual page that allows comments from LGF users; to get to the comments, click the big blue number in the lower right corner of the link. If the link already has comments, hovering the mouse over that number will show the last posted comment in a popup box.

Linkage Controls

Here are the controls located at the top of the main column of posted links:

These controls let you choose which category of links is displayed, how they’re sorted, how many are displayed on each page, and whether the descriptions appear or not.

There’s also a panel at the top of the right sidebar containing tools for filtering by words, phrases, or dates:

With these controls, you can pick a word or phrase to filter the links (Linkage searches the title, description, username, and URL for a match), and pick a date range to display. If you click in the field labeled “Dates,” a double popup calendar lets you choose a starting and ending date. There’s also a button labeled “Today” that sets the date range to the current day, to let you easily see which links have been posted today.

Posting Links

If you want to post a link from the Linkage page, click the big button in the right sidebar labeled “POST A LINK,” and up pops a window with the posting form. (You’ll need to be logged in to an LGF account to post links, as always; if you’re not currently logged in you’ll see a login form before the posting form appears.)

The form should be easy to use; the category, URL, and title fields are all required, and they are each marked with a red asterisk which turns into a green checkmark when you’ve entered something in the field. The description field is optional. There’s a counter that shows how many characters are left (the current limit is 2048, or 2K) in the description; no HTML is permitted here.

There’s also an Ajax preview feature that lets you see what your link will look like when posted; always remember: the Preview button is your friend!

Posting with the Bookmarklet

But the really cool new feature is a “bookmarklet” which you can put in your browser’s toolbar, letting you easily post links from other sites. If you hover your mouse over the link in the right sidebar labeled “LGF Linkage Bookmarklet,” you’ll see these instructions for installing and using the bookmarklet:

To use the bookmarklet, drag this link to your browser’s bookmark bar, and title it ‘LGF Linkage.’ Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, and click the bookmarklet. The popup window will appear with all fields already filled in (except the Category).

Here’s what the bookmarklet window looks like after selecting the first two paragraphs on this page at the New York Times Dot Earth blog:

Please note that sometimes when selecting text on a web page, you may also be inadvertently selecting text you don’t want to include, such as advertising, picture captions, sidebars, etc. Always look through the “Description” field when using the bookmarklet to make sure it contains only what you want, and edit if necessary.

(Important update note! LGF Linkage is slowly morphing into a more free-form blog/diary system for LGF users. Instead of making each post be tied to just one link, similar to Digg or Reddit, each registered LGF user will now get his/her/its own blog, or diary, or whatever you want to call it. The URL field in the bookmarklet is now gone; instead, when you click the bookmarklet while viewing a web page, the URL of the page is inserted into the description field as an HTML link, followed by any text you selected.)

The Wrap-Up

The LGF Linkage page also has its own RSS feed, located here.

And with that, I invite all LGF lizards to have at it. This is a bit like having your own blog hosted at LGF — the description field doesn’t have to be a quote from an article, it can contain your own commentary, and I encourage you to post your opinions.

IMPORTANT! The lizard army tends to frown on what we call “blog pimping.” It’s OK to post links to your blog when the subject is especially relevant, but don’t overdo it and get the lizards mad.

ALSO IMPORTANT! Remember that your links will be visible to all LGF readers! Double check spelling and avoid multiple punctuation marks, please, so everything stays nice and neat. I retain the right to delete any links that are eyesores.

(And needless to say, posting offensive material will cause your link to be deleted, and possibly get your account blocked, so just don’t do it.)

Jump to bottom

648 comments
1 cliffster  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 1:59:46pm

Whoa, that's cool shit.

2 darthstar  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:01:24pm

Neat stuff, Charles

3 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:02:12pm

Excellent! Is there a way we could create a link library so that I could say dump someplace permanently about 30 seminal AGW papers?

4 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:02:36pm

I tried this out this am Charles, great work. The one minor improvement I would suggest is to make the link appear as a spinoff under the latest post as well. With it appearing on just the "linkage page" some things aren't going to get seen.

5 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:04:14pm

oh... you could also use a cool "icon.ico" mini gif for the bookmark as well.

6 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:08:57pm

/This must be cool cause I have no idea what it means...

7 Kragar  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:10:31pm

re: #6 brookly red

/This must be cool cause I have no idea what it means...

Rhubarb rhubarb.

8 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:11:32pm

Do you have ANY idea how much this blog has ruined other websites for me? I can't tolerate even attempting to comment on much of anything anymore on other sites...it's like driving a Porsche and then wondering if I should take the Pinto out for a spin, just for giggles...

(masterfully done, Charles)

9 cliffster  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:12:13pm

Death of 'Caveman' ends an era in Idaho

Known as the "Salmon River Caveman," Richard Zimmerman lived an essentially 19th century lifestyle, a digital-age anachronism who never owned a telephone or a television and lived almost entirely off the land.

"He was in his home at the caves at the end, and it was his wish to die there," said Connie Fitte, who lived across the river. "He was the epitome of the free spirit."

Richard Zimmerman had been in declining health when he died Wednesday.

10 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:12:39pm

Excellent work, Charles! It's no wonder the haters try to pimp the "irrelevant" meme. Envy.

11 reine.de.tout  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:13:03pm

re: #8 Aceofwhat?

Do you have ANY idea how much this blog has ruined other websites for me? I can't tolerate even attempting to comment on much of anything anymore on other sites...it's like driving a Porsche and then wondering if I should take the Pinto out for a spin, just for giggles...

(masterfully done, Charles)

I know exactly how you feel.

12 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:13:25pm

That bookmarklet is the most amazing thing I have ever seen. That may make me sound pathetic, but I am serious.

13 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:15:46pm

re: #12 wrenchwench

That bookmarklet is the most amazing thing I have ever seen. That may make me sound pathetic, but I am serious.

It is serious goodness, professionally done, and great looking design too boot.

14 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:16:14pm

re: #12 wrenchwench

That bookmarklet is the most amazing thing I have ever seen. That may make me sound pathetic, but I am serious.

This is really cool..
I have made almost 23000 posts here and not one single link...
I'll need to check this feature out..

15 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:16:59pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

Excellent! Is there a way we could create a link library so that I could say dump someplace permanently about 30 seminal AGW papers?

That might be a good subsection. Set up a second, smaller page to hold permanent links to critical information on important topics.

16 Kragar  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:17:21pm

re: #14 HoosierHoops

This is really cool..
I have made almost 23000 posts here and not one single link...
I'll need to check this feature out..

I tried links for a bit, then stopped, not my thing.

17 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:17:48pm

Played with the sample posted a couple days ago--very cool.

18 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:18:16pm

re: #14 HoosierHoops

This is really cool..
I have made almost 23000 posts here and not one single link...
I'll need to check this feature out..

No electrons were harmed during the previous post...

19 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:18:56pm

re: #18 HoosierHoops

No electrons were harmed during the previous post...

/link please?

20 Mark Pennington  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:21:44pm

re: #12 wrenchwench

That bookmarklet is the most amazing thing I have ever seen. That may make me sound pathetic, but I am serious.

ditto! Let's be pathetic together.

Thank you, Charles for making LGF the best and coolest blog around.

21 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:22:18pm

The search calendar in the Linkage window is a bit buggy at the moment. No months or years other than the current one appear for me. Earlier, ads were covering the search box after a search, but that's not happening now.

22 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:23:54pm

re: #21 wrenchwench

The search calendar in the Linkage window is a bit buggy at the moment. No months or years other than the current one appear for me. Earlier, ads were covering the search box after a search, but that's not happening now.

isn't that because there aren't links posted in this fashion prior to this month?

23 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:26:05pm

re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I tried links for a bit, then stopped, not my thing.

I like science web sites..I figure most people here appreciate political links.
I read the Universe today or BadAstronomy or Dr.Pamela Gay's site..
I'll try to put a science section of links together under a folder or something..A place to have AGW studies in one place..Physics and Astronomy in an easy to access repository? I dunno..I've never done a link before..But I really like the Idea...

24 Locker  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:26:22pm

Damn man you really went to town. What was your development time on this feature?

25 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:26:26pm

re: #8 Aceofwhat?

Do you have ANY idea how much this blog has ruined other websites for me? I can't tolerate even attempting to comment on much of anything anymore on other sites...it's like driving a Porsche and then wondering if I should take the Pinto out for a spin, just for giggles...

(masterfully done, Charles)

There are things I still miss from other places I frequent (I like Livejournal's threaded comments feature, email notifications, and how small a footprint that LJ has) but the number of features on LGF is pretty stunning O_O

26 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:26:48pm

re: #21 wrenchwench

The search calendar in the Linkage window is a bit buggy at the moment. No months or years other than the current one appear for me. Earlier, ads were covering the search box after a search, but that's not happening now.

Hmm ... do you see the two calendars when you click in that field? Above the left calendar there should be popup menus that let you select other months and years.

27 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:27:11pm

re: #25 windupbird

I thought he was working on a 'mobile device' version for a while.

28 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:28:00pm

re: #27 windsagio

I thought he was working on a 'mobile device' version for a while.

I'd want to use the mobile device version on my laptop :D

29 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:28:15pm

re: #23 HoosierHoops

I like science web sites..I figure most people here appreciate political links.
I read the Universe today or BadAstronomy or Dr.Pamela Gay's site..
I'll try to put a science section of links together under a folder or something..A place to have AGW studies in one place..Physics and Astronomy in an easy to access repository? I dunno..I've never done a link before..But I really like the Idea...

post them. i love science articles.

30 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:29:27pm

re: #28 windupbird

lol exactly >

Also, don't wanna be a nag, don't forget your PTO thing >>

31 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:29:31pm

re: #26 Charles

Hmm ... do you see the two calendars when you click in that field? Above the left calendar there should be popup menus that let you select other months and years.

I get the two calendars when I click on the date field, but when I click on the drop-down thingy for month or year, it shows only the current one, with plenty of room for the others. Firefox, Windows XP.

32 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:30:31pm

re: #31 wrenchwench

Oh, wait. Scrolling over with the mouse makes the other months appear!

33 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:30:37pm

re: #26 Charles

Hmm ... do you see the two calendars when you click in that field? Above the left calendar there should be popup menus that let you select other months and years.

Really, is there some clever way we can make a permanent AGW fact repository.

Seriously, do it a standard that only sources from peer reviewed journals or established scientific organizations or universities in the filed will be linked there?

34 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:31:43pm

re: #32 wrenchwench

I mean "mouseover"ing. But I still get nothing when I search the future....

35 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:34:10pm

re: #34 wrenchwench

I mean "mouseover"ing. But I still get nothing when I search the future...


Rotating title!

36 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:35:33pm

re: #34 wrenchwench

I mean "mouseover"ing. But I still get nothing when I search the future...

maybe it's better that way...

37 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:35:55pm

I would also like to suggest we make a little more effort to keep bogus stories and conspiracies out of the linkage. Don't be afraid to downding stories that don't smell right even though they may be from MSM sites. Fact check and use a little common sense.

38 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:36:51pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

I would also like to suggest we make a little more effort to keep bogus stories and conspiracies out of the linkage. Don't be afraid to downding stories that don't smell right even though they may be from MSM sites. Fact check and use a little common sense.

Concur.

39 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:37:46pm

That calendar problem is now fixed...

40 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:40:36pm

re: #38 Dark_Falcon

It seems to have gotten better but I stopped even looking at the spinoffs after a while because it was filled with so much bullshit and nobody was downdinging the bogus stories.

41 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:41:14pm

I'm gonna pull out my soapbox and pontificate a while about spinoffs, feel free to offer your own opinions or to ignore this entirely, but here are a few of my pet peeves :

Users who file everything, no matter what, under one category. Different Categories are there for a reason, use 'em.

Users who go overly hyperbolic when retyping the headline. A little snark is always welcome in the blogosphere, a lot is clicking it up too many notches for spinoff links which should be informative, not agit prop.

If the website has gold ads, homeopathy ads, and craziness every other post you might want to find another source for the story... (or what KT just said - bogus isn't owned by one political wing either it's a shared attribute amongst extremists and fringers)

42 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:47:38pm

Of course the issues with a scientific link library are the following:

1. It should be something all lizards should be able to add too.

2. As a result, for everything that I or one of the other science types here posts from NAS, NASA, NOAA, Princeton etc...there will be three posts from Fox "Volksministerium für das Wohl des Volkes" News and other "Cosanginuity" Monckton types that their posters believe count as science.

3. Charles probably has enough to do without having to become a journal editor who would then be fumed at by the crazies for suppressing their "science."

SO OK I get that!

Charles, is there some way that I or any lizard can have our own link file that we control? Something like Ludwig's links that I would put the AGW stuff into and then other lizards can decide if they are any good or not on their own, but I can at least promise to only put valid science links into?

43 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:51:14pm

This looks almost easy enough for me to use.

44 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:53:10pm

re: #42 LudwigVanQuixote

I thought you would find it amusing that a ethnic butcher shop in Greenpoint sells home made breakfast sausages... Ludwigs links.

45 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:54:27pm

re: #42 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course the issues with a scientific link library are the following:

1. It should be something all lizards should be able to add too.

2. As a result, for everything that I or one of the other science types here posts from NAS, NASA, NOAA, Princeton etc...there will be three posts from Fox "Volksministerium für das Wohl des Volkes" News and other "Cosanginuity" Monckton types that their posters believe count as science.

3. Charles probably has enough to do without having to become a journal editor who would then be fumed at by the crazies for suppressing their "science."

SO OK I get that!

Charles, is there some way that I or any lizard can have our own link file that we control? Something like Ludwig's links that I would put the AGW stuff into and then other lizards can decide if they are any good or not on their own, but I can at least promise to only put valid science links into?

If I created a way for people to publicly share items from their Favorites lists that would probably do what you're asking.

46 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:55:15pm

re: #45 Charles

If I created a way for people to publicly share items from their Favorites lists that would probably do what you're asking.

Great! After Shabbos I will get at that.

47 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:55:29pm

You may be a blog pimp if:

1. Your ratio of links posted to comments made is 10 to 1

48 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:56:37pm

Sites we just don't link to period.
(Charles, please fix if I get any of these guesses wrong)

If you absolutely must then use the google cache link and file it under either "wingnuts" or "moonbats".

Note: stalker sites will not be named, and even the cache link to those usually gets deleted from my observations)

Atlas shrugs/GoV/Brussels Journal/Jihad Watch axis (and I really mean AXIS) sites. If you are in doubt, check the blogroll of the site you are linking from ... you will find the same blogbling and sites listed among most of those.

Big(dot) anything from Breitbart. Since Breitbart.com is still in sidebar, I assume straight news links from there are still ok.

Stormfront and other hate sites like Stormfront. There's a spectrum out there from the hardcore to the lightweight (Hit and Run and Hot Air end up at the Lightweight end, while Stormfront and Rense etc. are at the heavyweight racist end with Lew Rockwell, VDARE Takimag, Chronicles etc in between.)

Hard core Islamist and radical Jihadi sites, the list of terror groups here is way to long to name them all, but they are all easy to recognize.

Sex and porn sites -- on softcore use the rule: if you can't watch it at work then don't link it here without NSFW forewarning.

49 Kragar  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:57:27pm

Bret Micheals in critical condition after brain hemorrhage

The ex-Poison frontman, former star of VH1's "Rock of Love With Bret Michaels," and current "Celebrity Apprentice" contestant was hospitalized at an undisclosed facility Thursday after suffering a massive subarachnoid hemorrhage, or bleeding at the base of his brain stem, according to People magazine.

Michaels, 47, was in critical condition and under "intense observation" by doctors while they run tests to determine the cause of his bleeding, People reported.

50 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:58:02pm

re: #47 Alouette

You may be a blog pimp if:

1. Your ratio of links posted to comments made is 10 to 1

Or if you only post links to your own blog. Or if you post links to your own blog only, don't have LGF in your sidebar, but do have multiple other sites from the "do not link " bucket in your sidebar

51 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:58:56pm

re: #45 Charles

If I created a way for people to publicly share items from their Favorites lists that would probably do what you're asking.

Thank you!

52 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 2:59:18pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

Great! After Shabbos I will get at that.

Good idea Ludwig..I'd like to make links to my Favorite Bad astronomy post..Or my favorites Hubble pics..Or my favorite newspaper writer..CW Nevius from the SF Chronicle..I've know him for like 20 years..Great guy...

53 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:00:23pm

re: #48 Thanos

Sites we just don't link to period.
(Charles, please fix if I get any of these guesses wrong)

If you absolutely must then use the google cache link and file it under either "wingnuts" or "moonbats".

Note: stalker sites will not be named, and even the cache link to those usually gets deleted from my observations)

Atlas shrugs/GoV/Brussels Journal/Jihad Watch axis (and I really mean AXIS) sites. If you are in doubt, check the blogroll of the site you are linking from ... you will find the same blogbling and sites listed among most of those.

Big(dot) anything from Breitbart. Since Breitbart.com is still in sidebar, I assume straight news links from there are still ok.

Stormfront and other hate sites like Stormfront. There's a spectrum out there from the hardcore to the lightweight (Hit and Run and Hot Air end up at the Lightweight end, while Stormfront and Rense etc. are at the heavyweight racist end with Lew Rockwell, VDARE Takimag, Chronicles etc in between.)

Hard core Islamist and radical Jihadi sites, the list of terror groups here is way to long to name them all, but they are all easy to recognize.

Sex and porn sites -- on softcore use the rule: if you can't watch it at work then don't link it here without NSFW forewarning.

That's a pretty accurate list. You didn't mention Weird Nut Drooly -- I keep going back and forth on whether to disallow them, because they're so whacked out they're occasionally highly amusing.

54 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:00:29pm

re: #52 HoosierHoops

Good idea Ludwig..I'd like to make links to my Favorite Bad astronomy post..Or my favorites Hubble pics..Or my favorite newspaper writer..CW Nevius from the SF Chronicle..I've know him for like 20 years..Great guy...

got any cute cat pictures?

55 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:00:39pm

re: #48 Thanos

Sites we just don't link to period.
(Charles, please fix if I get any of these guesses wrong)

If you absolutely must then use the google cache link and file it under either "wingnuts" or "moonbats".

Note: stalker sites will not be named, and even the cache link to those usually gets deleted from my observations)

Atlas shrugs/GoV/Brussels Journal/Jihad Watch axis (and I really mean AXIS) sites. If you are in doubt, check the blogroll of the site you are linking from ... you will find the same blogbling and sites listed among most of those.

Big(dot) anything from Breitbart. Since Breitbart.com is still in sidebar, I assume straight news links from there are still ok.

Stormfront and other hate sites like Stormfront. There's a spectrum out there from the hardcore to the lightweight (Hit and Run and Hot Air end up at the Lightweight end, while Stormfront and Rense etc. are at the heavyweight racist end with Lew Rockwell, VDARE Takimag, Chronicles etc in between.)

Hard core Islamist and radical Jihadi sites, the list of terror groups here is way to long to name them all, but they are all easy to recognize.

Sex and porn sites -- on softcore use the rule: if you can't watch it at work then don't link it here without NSFW forewarning.

Restated for emphasis.

I would add do not link to Militia sites or anything you would not let your boss see you read.

56 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:01:48pm

re: #53 Charles

Yeah, we end up linking their cache in threads a lot to laugh at them. Maybe ok under "Wingnuts" and "Humor" only? Obviously yours and Stinky's call.

57 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:04:15pm

re: #50 Thanos

Or if you only post links to your own blog. Or if you post links to your own blog only, don't have LGF in your sidebar, but do have multiple other sites from the "do not link " bucket in your sidebar

I link to my own blog, but I participate in the conversation here. It really, really annoys the crap out of me that some people will pimp their blogs here but never, ever join the comments.

58 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:04:42pm

And remember that little exclamation point icon if you see something that doesn't belong! It turns yellow when you hover over it, signifying CAUTION! WARNING! Bzzzt! Report it!

Seriously, when you report comments or links they're forwarded not just to me but to all the monitor lizards.

On a similar subject, I'm probably going to start auto-hiding comments whose rating goes below -10 within a certain time window. There will still be a way for you to click and read it if you want to, so it won't actually be deleted. But a lot of trollish comments live on long past their expiration date and provoke responses, because they're still visible. Auto-hiding might help that situation.

59 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:08:44pm

Well Lizards!
It's the NFL draft night again...I'll be back later I'm sure..
Great coding Charles...
Be well my California Lizards..Esp. You Floral
May God grant you Blessings tonight my Jewish friends...
C-ya later
/Do you think Mel Kiper will choke on his own words tonight on ESPN? Dude sure was stuttering last night...And I think Steve Young has been drinking coffee since 5am this morning..Please Steve..It's going to be a long night!
*wink*
Be Well

60 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:10:12pm

re: #58 Charles

On a similar subject, I'm probably going to start auto-hiding comments whose rating goes below -10 within a certain time window. There will still be a way for you to click and read it if you want to, so it won't actually be deleted. But a lot of trollish comments live on long past their expiration date and provoke responses, because they're still visible. Auto-hiding might help that situation.


I think that is a very good idea.

61 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:11:28pm

re: #53 Charles

That's a pretty accurate list. You didn't mention Weird Nut Drooly -- I keep going back and forth on whether to disallow them, because they're so whacked out they're occasionally highly amusing.

I think a certain number of the really influential nut sites should be allowed, just to help readers here keep up with what is going on in the bizarro-sphere. I would also include Free Republic, since it is really our most comprehensive and up to date source on right-wing thinking.

62 Mocking Jay  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:14:41pm

re: #58 Charles

That's actually a fine idea.

63 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:15:29pm

re: #41 Thanos

Users who file everything, no matter what, under one category. Different Categories are there for a reason, use 'em.

I use the "crime" category a lot. Am I overdoing it?

64 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:16:24pm

re: #63 wrenchwench

I use the "crime" category a lot. Am I overdoing it?

No, I was thinking of someone a while back who filed every story, no matter what, under "Blogosphere"....

65 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:18:34pm

re: #64 Thanos

No, I was thinking of someone a while back who filed every story, no matter what, under "Blogosphere"...

pimpin' ain't easy/

66 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:19:49pm

I see on the Linkage page there is no "Most-Clicked" nor "Most-Commented" nor "Top Links Overall" viewing option. I may or may not miss those, but are they staying in the "Show top rated linkage" device? Then I can't miss them.

67 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:19:55pm

re: #63 wrenchwench

I use the "crime" category a lot. Am I overdoing it?

Glenn Becks radio show is not a crime.
(well, ok, but only one against sanity)

/

68 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:20:38pm

Many lizards don't get this but I've seen it happen too many times to not recognize that this site's spinoffs can on occasion drive the news. I've seen enough things that were being ignored across the board get posted in spinoffs here and then blossom to nationwide/ all outlets carrying the story not to recognize that effect.

69 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:20:40pm

re: #41 Thanos

I'm gonna pull out my soapbox and pontificate a while about spinoffs, feel free to offer your own opinions or to ignore this entirely, but here are a few of my pet peeves :

Users who file everything, no matter what, under one category. Different Categories are there for a reason, use 'em.

Users who go overly hyperbolic when retyping the headline. A little snark is always welcome in the blogosphere, a lot is clicking it up too many notches for spinoff links which should be informative, not agit prop.

If the website has gold ads, homeopathy ads, and craziness every other post you might want to find another source for the story... (or what KT just said - bogus isn't owned by one political wing either it's a shared attribute amongst extremists and fringers)

Well, to be fair, if you discuss extremism enough and discuss it using certain keywords, you will end up with gold ads and the like because of the way google's adlinking service works. We get some weird ads here on occasion.

70 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:21:27pm

re: #61 Shiplord Kirel

I think a certain number of the really influential nut sites should be allowed, just to help readers here keep up with what is going on in the bizarro-sphere. I would also include Free Republic, since it is really our most comprehensive and up to date source on right-wing thinking.

hmmmm, "nut sites"... check
"bizzaro-shpere"... check
"right -wing thinking"... check

kinda hard to keep up the open minded pretense, no?

71 JayDee1956  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:21:55pm

Charles, love the linkage page; I've already added it to my Google reader.
Thanks for opening up the registration and accepting my registration. I most likely won't be posting many comments but now I feel like a "real reader." :)

72 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:23:05pm

re: #69 Fozzie Bear

Well, to be fair, if you discuss extremism enough and discuss it using certain keywords, you will end up with gold ads and the like because of the way google's adlinking service works. We get some weird ads here on occasion.

This is true, it's only one indicator usually among numerous others. I look at what the site says, and what other sites link there, the ads, and who's in the blogroll to draw conclusions about whether it's nutball or not.

73 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:23:15pm

re: #70 brookly red

hmmm, "nut sites"... check
"bizzaro-shpere"... check
"right -wing thinking"... check

kinda hard to keep up the open minded pretense, no?

One does not desire a mind so open that one's brains fall out.

74 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:23:44pm

re: #73 wrenchwench

One does not desire a mind so open that one's brains fall out.

perhaps...

75 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:24:24pm

re: #68 Thanos

Many lizards don't get this but I've seen it happen too many times to not recognize that this site's spinoffs can on occasion drive the news. I've seen enough things that were being ignored across the board get posted in spinoffs here and then blossom to nationwide/ all outlets carrying the story not to recognize that effect.

I was trying to do that with Juarez, but it took the murder of some consulate employees to make it happen.

76 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:25:44pm

Happy "Pretend You Care More About the Fate of the Planet Than You Do About Your Car" Day, everyone!

77 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:27:02pm

re: #76 Cato the Elder

Happy "Pretend You Care More About the Fate of the Planet Than You Do About Your Car" Day, everyone!

/dude that was yesterday...

78 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:27:05pm

re: #71 JayDee1956

Welcome, hatchling.

79 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:27:19pm

re: #76 Cato the Elder

Happy "Pretend You Care More About the Fate of the Planet Than You Do About Your Car" Day, everyone!

But I do!

(Ok i'll admit it's at least partly because my car is a POS)

80 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:27:20pm

re: #76 Cato the Elder

Happy "Pretend You Care More About the Fate of the Planet Than You Do About Your Car" Day, everyone!

...but I have a reusable shopping bag and I recycle plastic so that makes my SUV ok!

81 Kragar  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:29:55pm

re: #76 Cato the Elder

Happy "Pretend You Care More About the Fate of the Planet Than You Do About Your Car" Day, everyone!

And a Merry Empty Platitudes to you as well, citizen Cato.

82 cliffster  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:31:23pm

re: #76 Cato the Elder

Happy "Pretend You Care More About the Fate of the Planet Than You Do About Your Car" Day, everyone!

The earth will someday crash into the sun. That is its fate.

83 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:31:23pm

BBL

84 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:32:23pm

re: #66 wrenchwench

I see on the Linkage page there is no "Most-Clicked" nor "Most-Commented" nor "Top Links Overall" viewing option. I may or may not miss those, but are they staying in the "Show top rated linkage" device? Then I can't miss them.

You can do the same thing by sorting by clicks, comments, or ratings, then set the date range to "Today" or whatever range you want.

85 Kragar  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:34:05pm

re: #82 cliffster

The earth will someday crash into the sun. That is its fate.

One way or another, we wont be around for it.

86 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:34:53pm

hrmmm

Greenpeace Says no to Energy Bill

(it's got nuclear energy in it...nonsense like that is why everyone is leaving Greenpeace, including their founder.)

87 jetpilot1101  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:35:00pm

re: #82 cliffster

The earth will someday crash into the sun. That is its fate.

Now that's global warming.

88 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:36:33pm

re: #82 cliffster

The earth will someday crash into the sun. That is its fate.

You've got that backwards, the Sun will expand into a "red giant" and crash into the Earth. Even if it doesn't quite inflate enough to reach earths orbit the planet will be incinerated.

But not for about another 5 billion years give or take a few hundred million.

89 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:37:39pm

re: #88 ausador

You've got that backwards, the Sun will expand into a "red giant" and crash into the Earth. Even if it doesn't quite inflate enough to reach earths orbit the planet will be incinerated.

But not for about another 5 billion years give or take a few hundred million.

/no way! I got these curly Q light bulbs...

90 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:37:48pm

Charles,
... do I have to ask permission first, like ... Oscar Meyer post a link?

/should I duck now?

91 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:38:35pm

re: #88 ausador

There's also a chance it won't survive the helium flash and explode.

(Also not really worth worrying about for about 5 billion years or so)

92 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:38:45pm

re: #86 Thanos

Is it really about nuclear this time? I thought the problem is that the so called "climate" bill was turned into simply an energy bill, without any real teeth wrt CO2.

93 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:39:28pm

I think Greenpeace became a lobby lobbying more for their own continued growth and existence ahead of all other things somewhere along the path.

94 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:39:58pm

re: #86 Thanos

hrmmm

Greenpeace Says no to Energy Bill

(it's got nuclear energy in it...nonsense like that is why everyone is leaving Greenpeace, including their founder.)

Seems to me the problem will be amplified by the courts.

'Environmentalists' use legal maneuvering to kill just about any project they can use to raise obscene amounts of money. In a lot of ways, the green movement is as much about money as the corporations they claim to be against. The monies raised/budgets for these organizations is huge.

95 Kragar  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:40:01pm

re: #91 Fozzie Bear

There's also a chance it won't survive the helium flash and explode.

(Also not really worth worrying about for about 5 billion years or so)

Eh, a Von Neumann will have rendered us into a slag heap long before then.

96 Kragar  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:40:43pm

re: #93 Thanos

I think Greenpeace became a lobby lobbying more for their own continued growth and existence ahead of all other things somewhere along the path.

DING DING DING! We have a winner.

97 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:41:15pm

re: #86 Thanos

hrmmm

Greenpeace Says no to Energy Bill

(it's got nuclear energy in it...nonsense like that is why everyone is leaving Greenpeace, including their founder.)

The word nuclear isn't even mentioned in the article.

Greenpeace is upset because the bill doesn't go far enough in their eyes, which is also stupid, for different reasons.

98 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:41:38pm

re: #84 Charles

Ah, a drop-down I didn't look at! Thanks. I'll have it all figured out in a couple of weeks.

/sad but true

99 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:41:49pm

re: #92 freetoken

They are accurate when they say "it doesn't do enough" but they are stupid when they try to shut out the single best solution. They want the problem not solutions it seems to me. Amory Lovins and those folks have had the net effect of dramatically increasing coal usage across the nation the past three decades, the words "nose" and "face" come to mind.

100 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:42:15pm

re: #97 Fozzie Bear

The word nuclear isn't even mentioned in the article.

Greenpeace is upset because the bill doesn't go far enough in their eyes, which is also stupid, for different reasons.

Really...

"Among Greenpeace’s chief objections are the measure’s “inadequate emission” reduction goals, a provision that strips authority from the Environmental Protection Agency, and the billions set aside for the coal and nuclear industries for research and expansion.

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

101 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:42:48pm

re: #93 Thanos

I think Greenpeace became a lobby lobbying more for their own continued growth and existence ahead of all other things somewhere along the path.

/if we would find a way to make eco-friendly war Greenpeace would be toast!

102 cliffster  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:42:53pm

re: #88 ausador

You've got that backwards, the Sun will expand into a "red giant" and crash into the Earth. Even if it doesn't quite inflate enough to reach earths orbit the planet will be incinerated.

But not for about another 5 billion years give or take a few hundred million.

I was waiting for someone to make that point. Still though, Earth crashes into Sun, Sun crashes into Earth, no difference if you're the physics administrator of the universt

103 jetpilot1101  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:43:14pm

re: #93 Thanos

I think Greenpeace became a lobby lobbying more for their own continued growth and existence ahead of all other things somewhere along the path.

Yeah but Greenpeace did give us Captain Paul Watson and his merry band of buffoons. God knows I agree that we shouldn't be killing whales but for the love of all that is holy, can't he at least hire a compentent crew or read one or two books on general seamanship.

104 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:43:21pm

re: #97 Fozzie Bear

It's mentioned once at the end, along with coal. Greenpeace objects to the large amount of funding for the coal and nuclear industries. From the article, the top of the list of objections: (1) insufficient reduction of CO2, and (2) cutting back of EPA authority.

105 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:44:17pm

re: #97 Fozzie Bear

The word nuclear isn't even mentioned in the article.

Greenpeace is upset because the bill doesn't go far enough in their eyes, which is also stupid, for different reasons.

What's this?

Among Greenpeace’s chief objections are the measure’s “inadequate emission” reduction goals, a provision that strips authority from the Environmental Protection Agency, and the billions set aside for the coal and nuclear industries for research and expansion.

It's their standard tactic as well to try to paint Nuclear energy as bad as coal or worse.

106 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:44:36pm

re: #58 Charles

And remember that little exclamation point icon if you see something that doesn't belong! It turns yellow when you hover over it, signifying CAUTION! WARNING! Bzzzt! Report it!

Seriously, when you report comments or links they're forwarded not just to me but to all the monitor lizards.

On a similar subject, I'm probably going to start auto-hiding comments whose rating goes below -10 within a certain time window. There will still be a way for you to click and read it if you want to, so it won't actually be deleted. But a lot of trollish comments live on long past their expiration date and provoke responses, because they're still visible. Auto-hiding might help that situation.

Charles, I hesitate to mention a certain site, but they do have one feature that really makes conversations easier, especially when one participant comes in late. FR has a feature called a 'ping' where links to specific messages are sent to every member 'pinged' in the message. Each member has a ping page which lists all pings from conversations past and present.

That system is the only thing of value on that site.

107 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:45:28pm

re: #99 Thanos

Cynical me, looking at this bill, it seems this bill's principal purpose is to have finagled a way to reduce EPA's regulatory power, without having a bill named explicitly so.

108 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:45:42pm

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

Hrm. Yep, there it is, must have missed it.

Regardless, I skimmed the article, and the objection seems to primarily center around the bill not being "strong" enough. This is stupid in itself, certainly, and I understand their objection to nuclear energy, but when you compare it to coal, it looks downright tasty.

109 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:45:53pm

re: #97 Fozzie Bear

The word nuclear isn't even mentioned in the article.

Greenpeace is upset because the bill doesn't go far enough in their eyes, which is also stupid, for different reasons.

Rejecting nuclear energy is fundamentally flawed. The only technology we currently have, ready to deploy that can actually take up the bulk of our energy needs is nuclear. Solar, wind and smart grids are a huge part of the solution, but if we want one that we can actually fully deploy now in a manner that will carry a bulk of the load, we need nuclear.

110 tradewind  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:46:20pm

(Wow, the linkage stuff is cool, Charles, thanks).

Think it's cool that GM paid off their loans? Not so much.
Actually, they paid them off with yet more government bailout money:
[Link: grassley.senate.gov...]

111 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:47:06pm

re: #106 b_sharp

Charles, I hesitate to mention a certain site, but they do have one feature that really makes conversations easier, especially when one participant comes in late. FR has a feature called a 'ping' where links to specific messages are sent to every member 'pinged' in the message. Each member has a ping page which lists all pings from conversations past and present.

That system is the only thing of value on that site.

Ah yes, ping-spamming at Free Republic.

112 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:47:27pm

re: #86 Thanos

hrmmm

Greenpeace Says no to Energy Bill

(it's got nuclear energy in it...nonsense like that is why everyone is leaving Greenpeace, including their founder.)

NIMBYs. Like anti-taxers.

Don't tax him.
Don't tax me.
Tax the man behind that tree.

113 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:47:43pm

re: #109 LudwigVanQuixote

Rejecting nuclear energy is fundamentally flawed. The only technology we currently have, ready to deploy that can actually take up the bulk of our energy needs is nuclear. Solar, wind and smart grids are a huge part of the solution, but if we want one that we can actually fully deploy now in a manner that will carry a bulk of the load, we need nuclear.

/I can hear it now...

no war for uranium!

114 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:47:46pm

re: #107 freetoken

Cynical me, looking at this bill, it seems this bill's principal purpose is to have finagled a way to reduce EPA's regulatory power, without having a bill named explicitly so.

You are correct, I make no claims to being impartial when it comes to energy sources, I'm heavily pro nuclear and have been since I researched coming environmental and population problems and pressures way back in the 80's. I always slam the old guard enviros when they pick on nuclear.

115 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:47:47pm

re: #109 LudwigVanQuixote

Rejecting nuclear energy is fundamentally flawed. The only technology we currently have, ready to deploy that can actually take up the bulk of our energy needs is nuclear. Solar, wind and smart grids are a huge part of the solution, but if we want one that we can actually fully deploy now in a manner that will carry a bulk of the load, we need nuclear.

preach it, brother!

(i'm serious)

116 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:48:04pm

re: #109 LudwigVanQuixote

I generally agree. Nuclear is the best we have atm, all things considered. I don't like it, but it's true for now. Hopefully we will either find something better or figure out ways to better mitigate the hazards.

117 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:48:51pm

in the longer run that is

118 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:49:29pm

re: #98 wrenchwench

Ah, a drop-down I didn't look at! Thanks. I'll have it all figured out in a couple of weeks.

/sad but true

I'm with you, wench.

Charles adds cool new feature, everyone digs it, and it takes me six months to work it into my brain.

119 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:49:39pm

Update on this pic.....
Virginia DMV Pulls License Plate Coded With Neo-Nazi Message From Truck With Anti-Islam Imagery


A photo has been circulating the Internet this week showing a truck parked in a disabled person parking spot, emblazoned with a large Confederate flag, and featuring a picture of the World Trade Center burning. The text on the truck reads, “Everything I ever need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11″:
...
The number 88 stands for the eighth letter of the alphabet, H, doubled to signify “Heil Hitler,” said CAIR’s Ibrahim Hooper. “CV” stands for “Confederate veteran” — the plate was a special model embossed with a Confederate flag, which Virginia makes available for a $10 fee to card-carrying members of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. And 14 is code for imprisoned white supremacist David Lane’s 14-word motto: “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.”


Is he right?

120 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:50:05pm

re: #112 Cato the Elder

NIMBYs. Like anti-taxers.

Don't tax him.
Don't tax me.
Tax the man behind that tree.

that's from the Qur,an right?

121 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:50:13pm

re: #116 Fozzie Bear

I generally agree. Nuclear is the best we have atm, all things considered. I don't like it, but it's true for now. Hopefully we will either find something better or figure out ways to better mitigate the hazards.

But the detritus is not something that just goes away. That's like saying right now there is problems, but we will live with those problems in HOPE that we can get rid of the problem in the future.

Doesn't sound like the most wise way of handling our energy affairs.

122 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:50:55pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

As to the meaning of '88' and '14' and 'CV'?

Yes on all counts. Those have meaning to certain inbred subsets of our society.

123 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:51:02pm

re: #118 Cato the Elder

I'm with you, wench.

Charles adds cool new feature, everyone digs it, and it takes me six months to work it into my brain.

I've have old hamsters on creaky, rusty wheels in my brain. This does look cool, somehow.

124 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:51:59pm

re: #114 Thanos

You are correct, I make no claims to being impartial when it comes to energy sources, I'm heavily pro nuclear and have been since I researched coming environmental and population problems and pressures way back in the 80's. I always slam the old guard enviros when they pick on nuclear.

And it seems that there is CO2 emissions surrounding the production of nuclear fuel...

"In the US, where much of the world's uranium is enriched, including Australia's, the enrichment facility at Paducah, Kentucky, requires the electrical output of two 1000-megawatt coal-fired plants, which emit large quantities of carbon dioxide, the gas responsible for 50per cent of global warming.

Also, this enrichment facility and another at Portsmouth, Ohio, release from leaky pipes 93per cent of the chlorofluorocarbon gas emitted yearly in the US. The production and release of CFC gas is now banned internationally by the Montreal Protocol because it is the main culprit responsible for stratospheric ozone depletion. But CFC is also a global warmer, 10,000 to 20,000 times more potent than carbon dioxide.

In fact, the nuclear fuel cycle utilises large quantities of fossil fuel at all of its stages - the mining and milling of uranium, the construction of the nuclear reactor and cooling towers, robotic decommissioning of the intensely radioactive reactor at the end of its 20 to 40-year operating lifetime, and transportation and long-term storage of massive quantities of radioactive waste."

[Link: www.commondreams.org...]

(Am I allowed to link to green sites?)

125 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:52:06pm

re: #94 researchok

Seems to me the problem will be amplified by the courts.

'Environmentalists' use legal maneuvering to kill just about any project they can use to raise obscene amounts of money. In a lot of ways, the green movement is as much about money as the corporations they claim to be against. The monies raised/budgets for these organizations is huge.

It is not about money for them as much as it is about dogma. They are in no way different than the various other whacko groups.

The fact is that Greenpeace is actually right on a number of issues - but that quickly gets buried under a sea of crazy and ignorance that is no less daunting than the fundies. In fact these are fundies, but of a different flavor.

Unfortunately, they are not reasoned enough to understand how to prioritize or that many of their maneuvers only guarantee that the disasters they want to avert are more likely to happen.

These folks are just as unscientific and stupid as the fundies and it is a pity, because they are not the great champions of the environment that they need to be. We need policy based on science and people in responsibility need to lead for once and do the sane and proper course of action on these issues.

That means, no whining, you are going to see more nuclear wind and solar. You are going to see laws that encourage you to recycle. YOu are going to see a smart grid and yes your tax dollars will pay for some of it.

As a reward, you get, America still intact in the 22nd century, millions of new American jobs and a booming economy.

126 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:52:54pm

re: #122 Fozzie Bear

At first the 14 thing seemed a bit of a stretch but it seems real. I hadn't heard of that one before.

127 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:52:58pm

re: #121 Walter L. Newton

But the detritus is not something that just goes away. That's like saying right now there is problems, but we will live with those problems in HOPE that we can get rid of the problem in the future.

Doesn't sound like the most wise way of handling our energy affairs.

I guess my response to that would be to compare the hazards of nuclear with the hazards of how we do things now. I think nuclear compares favorably... but I still don't like it.

We need something better, soon.

128 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:52:58pm

re: #113 brookly red

/I can hear it now...

no war for uranium!

We have one of the largest world reserves of it.

129 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:53:23pm

re: #105 Thanos

It's their standard tactic as well to try to paint Nuclear energy as bad as coal or worse.

Not only that.

We are going to be burning coal for the foreseeable future. Asswipes like Greenpeace are anti-coal absolutists. "There's no such thing as Clean Coal", they whinge.

But:

1) We are going to be burning coal for the foreseeable future.

2) Any gains made in terms of improved combustion efficiency and/or CO2 sequestration are gains, period.

3) Pretending we can stop burning coal is for people who live in unicorn-land.

4) Fuck Greenpeace.

130 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:53:24pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Update on this pic...
Virginia DMV Pulls License Plate Coded With Neo-Nazi Message From Truck With Anti-Islam Imagery


Is he right?

I suspect he is, especially if this is truly a full vanity plate with the "14CV88" number requested by the owner. I think Ibrahim's been reading LGF or he's beginning to pay attention to JW's allies...

131 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:53:37pm

re: #128 LudwigVanQuixote

We have one of the largest world reserves of it.

kewl

132 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:54:21pm

re: #124 Walter L. Newton

It's not required that the enrichment be powered by coal-fired plants...those electricity sources can be switched, too...

133 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:54:33pm

re: #111 Alouette

Ah yes, ping-spamming at Free Republic.

Shhh. Don't say the full name. Demons will arise.

I found pinging to be incredibly handy.

134 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:54:45pm

re: #124 Walter L. Newton

As horrifying as the non-energy-related consequences of this are, keep in mind the Australian scientists who found a MUCH less energy intensive method of refining uranium.

135 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:54:54pm

re: #116 Fozzie Bear

I generally agree. Nuclear is the best we have atm, all things considered. I don't like it, but it's true for now. Hopefully we will either find something better or figure out ways to better mitigate the hazards.

Well we really do not have the time for that is the issue. We start hitting tipping points sooner rather than later.

136 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:56:40pm

re: #128 LudwigVanQuixote

Doesn't canada actually have the very biggest?

137 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:56:44pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Yes.

138 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:57:53pm

re: #129 Cato the Elder

How do you feel about the statement:

"We should do everything we can to reduce our coal consumption, given that we can't cut it out entirely right now"

?

139 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:57:56pm

re: #124 Walter L. Newton

I think their output is miniscule compared to a single coal reactor, or drilling for natural gas, or the output from geothermal

140 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:59:15pm

re: #139 Thanos

I think their output is miniscule compared to a single coal reactor, or drilling for natural gas, or the output from geothermal

ooops! volcano... all bets are off.

141 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:59:18pm

Also, hey ludwig was there any followup on that Laser-stripping story out of OZ?

Scary as that is for proliferation, it would be a great help with fuel production, but I don't know if it turned out to be true or not >

142 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 3:59:19pm

re: #129 Cato the Elder

Not only that.

We are going to be burning coal for the foreseeable future. Asswipes like Greenpeace are anti-coal absolutists. "There's no such thing as Clean Coal", they whinge.

But:

1) We are going to be burning coal for the foreseeable future.

2) Any gains made in terms of improved combustion efficiency and/or CO2 sequestration are gains, period.

3) Pretending we can stop burning coal is for people who live in unicorn-land.

4) Fuck Greenpeace.

Well, first off there is no such thing as clean coal. There are ways to mitigate the emissions from coal plants but there is absolutely no way to reduce those emissions some level that is sustainable and still produce all the electricity we demand. The numbers just do not add up for coal. Inthis case Greenpeace is correct, though of course,, numbers and science are not so much their thing.

This is why nuclear is so very important.

We can not build a giant wind farm that would say power NY and the distribution network it would need fast enough to do the job on its own. For that technology to be fully realized, we would have to have every user hooked into powerful batteries to store unused energy and a smart grid to redistribute it.

That is possible and certainly part of the solution, but not in time.

We could however start building nuclear plants tomorrow.

143 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:00:04pm

re: #136 windsagio

Doesn't canada actually have the very biggest?

I don't know... may be.

I do know that we have tons of it though.

144 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:00:20pm

re: #125 LudwigVanQuixote

It is not about money for them as much as it is about dogma. They are in no way different than the various other whacko groups.

The fact is that Greenpeace is actually right on a number of issues - but that quickly gets buried under a sea of crazy and ignorance that is no less daunting than the fundies. In fact these are fundies, but of a different flavor.

Unfortunately, they are not reasoned enough to understand how to prioritize or that many of their maneuvers only guarantee that the disasters they want to avert are more likely to happen.

These folks are just as unscientific and stupid as the fundies and it is a pity, because they are not the great champions of the environment that they need to be. We need policy based on science and people in responsibility need to lead for once and do the sane and proper course of action on these issues.

That means, no whining, you are going to see more nuclear wind and solar. You are going to see laws that encourage you to recycle. YOu are going to see a smart grid and yes your tax dollars will pay for some of it.

As a reward, you get, America still intact in the 22nd century, millions of new American jobs and a booming economy.

I do agree with most of what you say.

The adherence to dogma you refer to may apply to the rank and file but for the higher ups it really is about the cash- not unlike the empire built by the Rathkes. The rank and file did all the work while the founders cleaned up and then raided the till.

Look at what happened in Oregon. The timber industry was decimated, all for naught. The Spotted Owl is still on the verge of extinction and ranchers and farmers had their water cut off.

The movement created a backlash of course and the reason you don't hear much about logging or the Spotted Owl any more is because it is harder to raise money nowadays. A decimated industry and farmers and ranchers being forced off their land isn't a feel good proposition. There is no accountability or repercussions so the greenies just moved on and damned the havoc and devastation.

The greenies moved on.

145 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:00:23pm

re: #135 LudwigVanQuixote

Well we really do not have the time for that is the issue. We start hitting tipping points sooner rather than later.

I know, I know.

You must acknowledge that a "hot" planet in terms of radiation isn't much better than a "hot" planet due to temperature. We have to be really careful.

I guess my objection to nuclear (which is, mind you, outweighed by my objections to fossil fuels) centers around humans not being even remotely responsible, on average, and the rather horrendous potential consequences of even a single mistake.

As I said, Nuclear is one of our better options from a practical perspective, but we still need to be agressively working on all angles. It isn't a solution to the problem, imho, it's replacing a problem with a lesser problem. Yes, that's progress, but I cringe a little when I think about how it could go wrong.

That's the world we live in. Bad choice, or worse choice?

146 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:00:23pm

re: #143 LudwigVanQuixote

Which is of course all that is important :D

147 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:00:36pm

re: #139 Thanos

I think their output is miniscule compared to a single coal reactor, or drilling for natural gas, or the output from geothermal

That is absolutely correct.

148 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:00:55pm

re: #133 b_sharp

Shhh. Don't say the full name. Demons will arise.

I found pinging to be incredibly handy.

Click on your avatar, then click on "recent comments". Then strip off the quotation marks and user: from the "user:b_sharp", leaving just your nic, select a time period, and see who has been talking about you when you're not around.

149 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:00:56pm

re: #144 researchok

Fair enough

150 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:01:29pm

Important note about using the bookmarklet!

Sometimes when selecting text on a web page, you may also inadvertently be selecting text you don't want to include, such as advertising, picture captions, sidebars, etc. Always look through the "Description" field when using the bookmarklet to make sure it contains only what you want, and edit if necessary.

151 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:01:51pm

Since we're on the topic, I see that Glenn Beck was waxing on AGW today, claiming there as been no warming the past decade, etc...

The guy certainly knows his audience.

152 Kragar  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:01:58pm

re: #136 windsagio

Doesn't canada actually have the very biggest?

WE WILL BREAK THEM!

153 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:02:07pm

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, first off there is no such thing as clean coal. There are ways to mitigate the emissions from coal plants but there is absolutely no way to reduce those emissions some level that is sustainable and still produce all the electricity we demand. The numbers just do not add up for coal. Inthis case Greenpeace is correct, though of course,, numbers and science are not so much their thing.

This is why nuclear is so very important.

We can not build a giant wind farm that would say power NY and the distribution network it would need fast enough to do the job on its own. For that technology to be fully realized, we would have to have every user hooked into powerful batteries to store unused energy and a smart grid to redistribute it.

That is possible and certainly part of the solution, but not in time.

We could however start building nuclear plants tomorrow.

OK, but can we put them like far away from where lots of people live...

154 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:02:07pm

re: #139 Thanos

I think their output is miniscule compared to a single coal reactor, or drilling for natural gas, or the output from geothermal

I don't think we should go nuclear until we have a fool proof scientific way to deal with the downsides, waste etc. Other wise, we are just applying a band aid to out energy needs and not really moving forward to a permanent safe solution.

The jump on nuclear seems a lot like the same fervor that a lot of people have about fossil fuels. It's their favorite horse, so, their horse is better than the other horses, no matter what the real problem still exist behind the technology.

It seems like a quick fix that could backfire someday.

155 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:02:24pm

re: #125 LudwigVanQuixote

By the way, they greenies will block nuclear and solar for years, if not decades. They will fight every step of the way. If the build solar or nuclear, they will fight the transmission lines- same with wind.

156 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:02:24pm

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

I'll say the same thing -- no such thing as clean coal - however....

If you don't replace coal power removed with clean energy that is nearly as cheap, then people really starve and die in Africa, the Asian Subcontinent, many islands, and South America.

157 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:02:33pm

re: #144 researchok

There's still plenty of timber harvested in OR, thanks.

They've actually had to reform their methods too, part of the fallout of the spotted owl thing was it made it alot harder to harvest irreplacable oldgrowth. They have to use at least semi-sustainable methods now.

158 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:02:33pm

re: #145 Fozzie Bear

have you seen modern nuclear reactor designs lately? you and i could run them with all the diligence of Homer Simpson and still not contaminate anything but our future employment prospects.

159 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:03:43pm

re: #152 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Last time I went up to seattle, I was talking to my super-wingnut Aunt and Uncle, and they were weirdly pro- "Greater North America Union", which shocked me.

Canada, hto', should just surrender already :p

160 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:03:57pm

re: #158 Aceofwhat?

have you seen modern nuclear reactor designs lately? you and i could run them with all the diligence of Homer Simpson and still not contaminate anything but our future employment prospects.

Waste is waste is waste...

161 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:04:09pm

re: #158 Aceofwhat?

Also there are a TON of expert techs coming out of the Navy nuke programs anyways.

162 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:04:16pm

re: #150 Charles

Important note about using the bookmarklet!

Sometimes when selecting text on a web page, you may also inadvertently be selecting text you don't want to include, such as advertising, picture captions, sidebars, etc. Always look through the "Description" field when using the bookmarklet to make sure it contains only what you want, and edit if necessary.

Some websites also "autoinclude" a Read more: http:etc link anytime you cut and paste, delete that if you see it...

163 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:04:24pm

re: #138 windsagio

How do you feel about the statement:

"We should do everything we can to reduce our coal consumption, given that we can't cut it out entirely right now"

?

Makes sense to me. While acknowledging there is currently no way to eliminate it completely it is still prudent to do as much as possible to reduce our use of it as new technology is developed.

164 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:04:37pm

re: #160 Walter L. Newton

Waste is waste is waste...

30mm rounds...

165 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:04:42pm

Sue Lowden Isn't Alone: NV Papers Find Two Doctors Who Barter With Patients

And as it turns out, some doctors actually do engage in this practice.

"For example," said Dr. Kevin Peterson, "the national average for a hernia surgery is $16,000, and we charge $5,000." Peterson also added: "I have patients who are farmers and they bring me produce. But a 'thank you' is just as good most of the time."

Another Nevada physician, Dr. Robin Titus of the rural Smith Valley area, said that she has received hay, horseshoeing, and even a bathtub for her services. "She [Lowden] made an innocent comment in Mesquite," said Titus. "It's something America has done for hundreds of years."

Interesting. Who knew?

166 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:05:07pm

re: #145 Fozzie Bear

I know, I know.

You must acknowledge that a "hot" planet in terms of radiation isn't much better than a "hot" planet due to temperature. We have to be really careful.

I guess my objection to nuclear (which is, mind you, outweighed by my objections to fossil fuels) centers around humans not being even remotely responsible, on average, and the rather horrendous potential consequences of even a single mistake.

As I said, Nuclear is one of our better options from a practical perspective, but we still need to be agressively working on all angles. It isn't a solution to the problem, imho, it's replacing a problem with a lesser problem. Yes, that's progress, but I cringe a little when I think about how it could go wrong.

That's the world we live in. Bad choice, or worse choice?

I acknowledge that a 3rd or 4th gen reactor can be built in uch a way that it is physically impossible for it to break down. I acknowledge that if we are going to dismantle nuclear weapons, we can blend down their cores and make fuel pellets and start a partially renewable fuel cycle.

While I absolutely agree that nuclear reactors need to be treated with the greates respect, which is to say run on the Navy model and NOT the pure business model, it is possible to run them safely.

The second you start saying hot planet, I understand your concerns, but you are also coming from a place that is not overly familiar with present technology. It can be done correctly when not run by idiots. Most importantly, it can be vastly more idiot proofed today than it was in the 70's

167 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:05:33pm

re: #161 windsagio

Also there are a TON of expert techs coming out of the Navy nuke programs anyways.

Why oh why do I think of Jimmy Carter?

168 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:05:39pm

re: #163 b_sharp

Yeah, the nihilists tend to forget that part ;)

169 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:06:35pm

Going away from the nuclear angle, FT is right in that Greenpeace is correct in their saying that it's probably too little, and that it restrains them from acting.

On the other hand, Greenpeace has been a large factor in the luddite leaning part of the eco movement that has kept us in energy stasis, slave to coal and those foreign dictators all these years....

170 cliffster  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:06:37pm

re: #162 Thanos

Some websites also "autoinclude" a Read more: http:etc link anytime you cut and paste, delete that if you see it...

overriding onkeypress in such devious ways should be illegal

171 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:06:45pm

re: #153 brookly red

OK, but can we put them like far away from where lots of people live...

you can put a pebble bed reactor in my backyard tomorrow.

my neighbor may be pissed, because his house is at the end of my backyard, but i'll be fine!

172 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:07:09pm

re: #167 brookly red

I can think of a few reasons >>


But seriously, used to work for a company that recruited ex-military (esp navy, mainly out of PSNS and environs). We always had a market for Nukes.

173 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:07:09pm

re: #151 freetoken

Since we're on the topic, I see that Glenn Beck was waxing on AGW today, claiming there as been no warming the past decade, etc...

The guy certainly knows his audience.

The past decade was the WARMEST ON RECORD!

THAT IS A FLAT OUT LIE!

2009: Second Warmest Year on Record; End of Warmest Decade

[Link: www.giss.nasa.gov...]

There should be laws against openly lying like that.

174 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:07:59pm

re: #160 Walter L. Newton

Waste is waste is waste...

not really. Yucca can hold more waste safely than there is uranium to be processed, IIRC. dry, stable conditions are a perfectly safe place for waste.

175 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:08:14pm

re: #171 Aceofwhat?

you can put a pebble bed reactor in my backyard tomorrow.

my neighbor may be pissed, because his house is at the end of my backyard, but i'll be fine!

kewl, let's do it... If AceEnergy has an IPO I am down!

176 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:08:19pm

re: #156 Thanos

I'll say the same thing -- no such thing as clean coal - however...

If you don't replace coal power removed with clean energy that is nearly as cheap, then people really starve and die in Africa, the Asian Subcontinent, many islands, and South America.

Which is another very strong argument for nuclear solar and wind. Of course the alternative is that those people die anyway in flood, famine, drought and war if we do not act.

177 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:08:48pm

re: #173 LudwigVanQuixote

THAT IS A FLAT OUT LIE!

So? When has that ever stopped a show?

178 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:08:51pm

re: #138 windsagio

Like I feel about the statement "can't we all just get along?"

179 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:08:57pm

re: #171 Aceofwhat?

Home nuke plants are soooo 50's Scifi!

I vastly approve!

180 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:09:17pm

re: #178 Cato the Elder

Which is? >

181 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:09:34pm

re: #179 windsagio

Oh yeah, my robot dog approves too!


His name is Robbie.

182 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:09:37pm

re: #169 Thanos

Going away from the nuclear angle, FT is right in that Greenpeace is correct in their saying that it's probably too little, and that it restrains them from acting.

On the other hand, Greenpeace has been a large factor in the luddite leaning part of the eco movement that has kept us in energy stasis, slave to coal and those foreign dictators all these years...

I have mentioned "waste" a number of times, and the more scientific minded in this group seem to want to ignore it. Color me skeptical, but the most safe operating reactor still produces hot waste, right? And with all our advancements in who we could design and run a plant, I think the waste problem still has the caveats as always.

Or am I missing something?

183 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:09:40pm

re: #155 researchok

By the way, they greenies will block nuclear and solar for years, if not decades. They will fight every step of the way. If the build solar or nuclear, they will fight the transmission lines- same with wind.

Which is why there needs to be actual strong leadership on this issue with an awful lot of STFU action form DC.

184 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:09:51pm

re: #172 windsagio

I can think of a few reasons >>

But seriously, used to work for a company that recruited ex-military (esp navy, mainly out of PSNS and environs). We always had a market for Nukes.

OK fine just keep em out of politics and I won't bitch... deal?

185 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:10:01pm

re: #169 Thanos

It just strikes me that this bill is another good example of what Dr. Hansen calls "greenwashing". In this case, senior senators want to be seen passing a climate change bill, and by gum and by God, they will have one... in title, anyway.

186 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:10:30pm

re: #184 brookly red

I know you're joking, but you realize you're talking about one of the most elite sections of the navy right?

187 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:10:36pm

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, first off there is no such thing as clean coal. There are ways to mitigate the emissions from coal plants but there is absolutely no way to reduce those emissions some level that is sustainable and still produce all the electricity we demand. The numbers just do not add up for coal. Inthis case Greenpeace is correct, though of course,, numbers and science are not so much their thing.

This is why nuclear is so very important.

We can not build a giant wind farm that would say power NY and the distribution network it would need fast enough to do the job on its own. For that technology to be fully realized, we would have to have every user hooked into powerful batteries to store unused energy and a smart grid to redistribute it.

That is possible and certainly part of the solution, but not in time.

We could however start building nuclear plants tomorrow.

CO2 sequestration from coal plants is also a questionable solution. Both solar and wind are limited in providing consistent power so will likely never be up to meeting base load demand even with batteries. Nuke is about all we have and should be heavily funded.

188 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:10:37pm

re: #166 LudwigVanQuixote

I acknowledge that a 3rd or 4th gen reactor can be built in uch a way that it is physically impossible for it to break down. I acknowledge that if we are going to dismantle nuclear weapons, we can blend down their cores and make fuel pellets and start a partially renewable fuel cycle.

While I absolutely agree that nuclear reactors need to be treated with the greates respect, which is to say run on the Navy model and NOT the pure business model, it is possible to run them safely.

The second you start saying hot planet, I understand your concerns, but you are also coming from a place that is not overly familiar with present technology. It can be done correctly when not run by idiots. Most importantly, it can be vastly more idiot proofed today than it was in the 70's

I worry about what happens to the safety record when the GOP gains power and "deregulates". I worry about what happens when fuel goes "missing". I worry about what happens when Met-Ed starts cutting corners like crazy to make a little extra cash. This cannot be trusted to the 'free market'. This absolutely cannot EVER be allowed to be run with less regard for safety than money. One unlicenced dumping of waste could ruin a place for centuries, and poison thousands or millions.

This is the stuff that I think about when I think about the downsides of nuclear. The upside is of course enormous, but it still scares the ever-loving shit out of me.

189 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:11:08pm

re: #177 freetoken

So? When has that ever stopped a show?

Yes but it is a lie that you can disprove in one second by looking at the data.

The fact that Americans refuse, just refuse to do something as simple as a basic fact check is one the main reasons that AGW is such a threat.

190 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:11:31pm

2010 Energy Outlook Survey:[Link: blog.energytomorrow.org...]

191 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:11:49pm

re: #187 b_sharp

Solar and wind definitely have a place, esp. if we can add real storage capacity to the grid. Nukes are just what we can do Right now, en masse.

192 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:12:07pm

re: #187 b_sharp

CO2 sequestration from coal plants is also a questionable solution. Both solar and wind are limited in providing consistent power so will likely never be up to meeting base load demand even with batteries. Nuke is about all we have and should be heavily funded.

If nuclear is the way to go, then why has it been such a dead issue for over 30 years?

193 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:12:09pm

re: #186 windsagio

I know you're joking, but you realize you're talking about one of the most elite sections of the navy right?

I do... and I support nuke power. now just keep them out of politics and all is good.

194 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:12:20pm

re: #187 b_sharp

CO2 sequestration from coal plants is also a questionable solution. Both solar and wind are limited in providing consistent power so will likely never be up to meeting base load demand even with batteries. Nuke is about all we have and should be heavily funded.

Which is what I have been writing.

I always say the solution is nuclear, solar, and wind with a smart grid and battery deployment.

I have written that particular list for over a year here more times than I can easily count.

195 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:12:21pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

Which is why there needs to be actual strong leadership on this issue with an awful lot of STFU action form DC.

As they say, Good luck with that.

196 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:12:26pm

re: #174 Aceofwhat?

not really. Yucca can hold more waste safely than there is uranium to be processed, IIRC. dry, stable conditions are a perfectly safe place for waste.

The waste will also have the moisture removed from it and be cast into glass blocks that are expected to last for over 100,000 years. We already spent 13-15 billion prepping the site and now the NIMBYs wont let us use the damn thing.

197 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:12:31pm

re: #193 brookly red

lol fine :P

198 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:13:11pm

re: #151 freetoken

Since we're on the topic, I see that Glenn Beck was waxing on AGW today, claiming there as been no warming the past decade, etc...

The guy certainly knows his audience.

Downding for misuse of the word "waxing" as though it meant "talking about".

You can wax (i.e. grow) philosophical, you can wax sentimental, you can wax your pubes, but you can't "wax" about a topic.

I have an old dictionary here I no longer use. Free to good home. My nick is blue.

199 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:13:13pm

re: #124 Walter L. Newton


[Link: www.commondreams.org...]

(Am I allowed to link to green sites?)

Nyet, comrade Walter. Report to the commissar's office at once for re-education assignment.
Remember: In this regime, the conspiracy theorizes YOU!

200 Kragar  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:13:15pm

re: #192 Walter L. Newton

If nuclear is the way to go, then why has it been such a dead issue for over 30 years?

Stupidity.

201 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:13:44pm

re: #192 Walter L. Newton

If nuclear is the way to go, then why has it been such a dead issue for over 30 years?

Because jerks like you bring the anti-science propaganda of the green dogmatists and make that sound like it is valid.

Seriously. Leftwing anti-science is no less deplorable than right wing anti-science.

202 The Curmudgeon  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:13:44pm

Whoa! For a moment there I read the thread title as "Announcing: Little Green Leakage." Glad to see I got that wrong. Nice feature, Charles!

203 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:13:58pm

This is the point in the thread where I rave about home solar plants as part of the solution.


OK, carry on.

204 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:14:09pm

re: #180 windsagio

Which is? >

Platitude. No bearing on reality.

205 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:14:25pm

re: #198 Cato the Elder

Downding for misuse of the word "waxing" as though it meant "talking about".

You can wax (i.e. grow) philosophical, you can wax sentimental, you can wax your pubes, but you can't "wax" about a topic.

I have an old dictionary here I no longer use. Free to good home. My nick is blue.

No Cato... I saw the segment... he was really waxing his legs on air while he was sitting next to a black board and making some diagrams... not a pretty picture at all.

206 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:14:33pm

re: #197 windsagio

lol fine :P

Ahem... windsagio & I have just reached an agreement...

buy gold.

207 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:14:40pm

re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote

Which is what I have been writing.

I always say the solution is nuclear, solar, and wind with a smart grid and battery deployment.

I have written that particular list for over a year here more times than I can easily count.

Nuclear is the single best energy 'silver bullet'. That's why the greenies will fight it at every step. Fix the problem, the funding goes away and they are out of job.

It's that nearsighted.

208 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:15:12pm

re: #203 windsagio

This is the point in the thread where I rave about home solar plants as part of the solution.

OK, carry on.

I want home rain power. (More useful to me personally.) Why haven't the geeks provided me with this yet?

209 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:15:17pm

re: #143 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't know... may be.

I do know that we have tons of it though.

Canada is the largest single producer, but Australia has the largest reserves. Most of the US reserves are of low grade.

210 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:15:36pm

re: #198 Cato the Elder

I was using it in the sense of "getting larger", that is, Glenn Beck seems to be doubling down on his anti-AGW, anti-science routine.

211 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:15:56pm

re: #209 b_sharp

Canada is the largest single producer, but Australia has the largest reserves. Most of the US reserves are of low grade.

damn publick skools!

212 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:16:18pm

re: #133 b_sharp

Shhh. Don't say the full name. Demons will arise.

I found pinging to be incredibly handy.

Unfortunately the feature is easily abused.

213 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:16:18pm

re: #208 EmmmieG

A cistern and a waterwheel by every house! It'd look cool too :D

Plus you could use the water for things like lawns in summer >

214 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:16:20pm

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, first off there is no such thing as clean coal.

But there is cleaner coal, and since in the real world we're going to be burning the living shit out of that stuff for at least another century, making it so is a gain.

Pretending it's not is hogwash.

215 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:16:35pm

re: #148 wrenchwench

Click on your avatar, then click on "recent comments". Then strip off the quotation marks and user: from the "user:b_sharp", leaving just your nic, select a time period, and see who has been talking about you when you're not around.

Thanks.

216 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:17:02pm

re: #204 Cato the Elder

So not even a good goal to reach towards?

217 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:17:07pm

re: #201 LudwigVanQuixote

Because jerks like you bring the anti-science propaganda of the green dogmatists and make that sound like it is valid.

Seriously. Leftwing anti-science is no less deplorable than right wing anti-science.

Really... so, all the left wing talk about no nuclear, but all solar and wind is deplorable? The same people who are pushing solar and wind and other "green" energy sources are the same ones who are complaining about no nuclear.

And fuck you for the "jerk" comment. I wasn't challenging you or anyone else, just asking questions... asshole.

218 cliffster  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:17:27pm

re: #192 Walter L. Newton

If nuclear is the way to go, then why has it been such a dead issue for over 30 years?

three mile island? 9/11?

219 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:17:29pm

re: #207 researchok

Nuclear is the single best energy 'silver bullet'. That's why the greenies will fight it at every step. Fix the problem, the funding goes away and they are out of job.

It's that nearsighted.

No I don't think so. I think that is overly cynical. The greenies have had 40 years of anti-nuke propaganda to become a matter of faith for them.

220 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:17:40pm

re: #214 Cato the Elder

OK given your interactions on this subject,

Is the secret here your 10,000 shares of Massey stock?

221 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:17:50pm

re: #218 cliffster

Chernobyl.

222 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:17:51pm

re: #207 researchok

Nuclear is the single best energy 'silver bullet'. That's why the greenies will fight it at every step. Fix the problem, the funding goes away and they are out of job.

It's that nearsighted.

But these are the same greenies who toot solar and wind and other green stuff.

223 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:18:20pm

re: #219 LudwigVanQuixote

Thats exactly it, and many of that generation still have it linked with 'nuclear weapons' in their mind.

224 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:18:38pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

I have mentioned "waste" a number of times, and the more scientific minded in this group seem to want to ignore it. Color me skeptical, but the most safe operating reactor still produces hot waste, right? And with all our advancements in who we could design and run a plant, I think the waste problem still has the caveats as always.

Or am I missing something?

No, not entirely. However that waste can be reburnt, it can be put on mothballed freight ships, encased in concrete, and sunk in deep subduction zones in the ocean, it's small enough that it can be safely buried, or sent to the bottom of empty drill holes. There are lots of reasonably safe solutions to "what to do with the waste" that it's engineering, but not a real serious problem that should stop nuclear anymore.

All of the energy you would use in a lifetime including your car if it were electiric would make enough waste to fit in one coke can. Compare that to this.

225 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:18:40pm

re: #154 Walter L. Newton

I don't think we should go nuclear until we have a fool proof scientific way to deal with the downsides, waste etc. Other wise, we are just applying a band aid to out energy needs and not really moving forward to a permanent safe solution.

The jump on nuclear seems a lot like the same fervor that a lot of people have about fossil fuels. It's their favorite horse, so, their horse is better than the other horses, no matter what the real problem still exist behind the technology.

It seems like a quick fix that could backfire someday.

Its not just a band-aid, it's a tourniquet. Sometimes tourniquets are necessary to save a life.

226 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:18:42pm

re: #192 Walter L. Newton

If nuclear is the way to go, then why has it been such a dead issue for over 30 years?

Because of Three Mile Island and the "China Syndrome" release happening in the same week. Because of "environmental" groups who did and still do stridently oppose Nuclear power. You were around back then weren't you? Why do you need to ask?

227 cliffster  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:18:53pm

re: #221 windsagio

Chernobyl.

I was going to put that in too but I couldn't spell it.

228 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:19:04pm

re: #214 Cato the Elder

But there is cleaner coal, and since in the real world we're going to be burning the living shit out of that stuff for at least another century, making it so is a gain.

Pretending it's not is hogwash.

I do not debate that deploying so called "clean coal" technologies while we switch over to other sources of power and phase coal out is essential. However, the entire point is that a century of clean coal burning is sufficient to push us over a tipping point. It is therefore not an option.

229 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:19:55pm

re: #201 LudwigVanQuixote

Because jerks like you bring the anti-science propaganda of the green dogmatists and make that sound like it is valid.

Seriously. Leftwing anti-science is no less deplorable than right wing anti-science.

See this- Stossel on America's forests.

Excerpt:

Why all this fear?


The fear is there because if your goal is to raise funds, you have to scare people. You can't tell people things are getting better and here's the data. You have to tell people things are worse, you have to scare people.

230 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:20:08pm

My Computer
C:
Windows:
Media:
Town

231 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:20:38pm

re: #198 Cato the Elder

Wax on? Wax off?

/What are you drinking tonight, or are you giving it a rest after last night? I am thinking about uncorking the Hennessey here.

232 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:21:01pm

re: #155 researchok

By the way, they greenies will block nuclear and solar for years, if not decades. They will fight every step of the way. If the build solar or nuclear, they will fight the transmission lines- same with wind.

Nonsense. 'Greenies' are the ones pushing for solar and thermal, and many previously against the nuclear option are now for it. Both Jim Hansen and James Lovelock come to mind.

233 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:21:06pm

re: #226 ausador

Because of Three Mile Island and the "China Syndrome" release happening in the same week. Because of "environmental" groups who did and still do stridently oppose Nuclear power. You were around back then weren't you? Why do you need to ask?

China Syndrome come to think of it is a major reason why I left the the left... took me 25 years to figure it out, but there you are.

234 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:21:51pm

re: #158 Aceofwhat?

have you seen modern nuclear reactor designs lately? you and i could run them with all the diligence of Homer Simpson and still not contaminate anything but our future employment prospects.

Only if I get a steady supply of doughnuts.

235 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:21:58pm

re: #223 windsagio

Thats exactly it, and many of that generation still have it linked with 'nuclear weapons' in their mind.

The best way to get rid of nuclear weapons is to make the substances used to make them too valuable to use for that purpose. Split atoms for peace.

236 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:22:08pm

re: #188 Fozzie Bear

I worry about what happens to the safety record when the GOP gains power and "deregulates". I worry about what happens when fuel goes "missing". I worry about what happens when Met-Ed starts cutting corners like crazy to make a little extra cash. This cannot be trusted to the 'free market'. This absolutely cannot EVER be allowed to be run with less regard for safety than money. One unlicenced dumping of waste could ruin a place for centuries, and poison thousands or millions.

This is the stuff that I think about when I think about the downsides of nuclear. The upside is of course enormous, but it still scares the ever-loving shit out of me.

These are all very good points.

I will say that the US has had a massive nuclear infrastructure for 70 years now and we are very good at keeping stuff from going missing. However, one power company telling a GOPer to take away those capitalism killing safety regulations is a real issue. Standards for nuclear power would need to be set by a government agency and not congress - fortunately that is the way it already is.

237 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:22:10pm

re: #233 brookly red

Plus for answering a question I've wanted answered for months

Thanks ;)

/now I just have to figure out if it makes sense ;D

238 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:22:57pm

Yet another beauty upgrade, Charles!
Clearly the state of the art.
Thank you very much!

239 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:23:02pm

re: #159 windsagio

Last time I went up to seattle, I was talking to my super-wingnut Aunt and Uncle, and they were weirdly pro- "Greater North America Union", which shocked me.

Canada, hto', should just surrender already :p

I fart in your general direction, you and your elderberry odoured populace.

240 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:23:15pm

re: #230 Killgore Trout

My Computer
C:
Windows:
Media:
Town

Or Onestop.
What is that? Some programmer at Microsoft got bored?

241 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:23:22pm

re: #237 windsagio

Plus for answering a question I've wanted answered for months

Thanks ;)

/now I just have to figure out if it makes sense ;D

just ask it...

242 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:23:25pm

re: #226 ausador

Because of Three Mile Island and the "China Syndrome" release happening in the same week. Because of "environmental" groups who did and still do stridently oppose Nuclear power. You were around back then weren't you? Why do you need to ask?

Because, the same problems that existed 30 years ago still exist today. In regards to waste, nothing has changed. We still have to store it, contain it and babysit it. Has much of anything changed in regards to the waste problems?

243 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:23:29pm

re: #232 b_sharp

Nonsense. 'Greenies' are the ones pushing for solar and thermal, and many previously against the nuclear option are now for it. Both Jim Hansen and James Lovelock come to mind.

The greenies can be anywhere they want to be on solar and wind because they are at the fore of blocking transmissions towers. They've already blocked projects.

244 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:23:46pm

re: #236 LudwigVanQuixote

Man, already you're trying to set the NRC to quash competition.

jerk.

245 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:24:16pm

re: #241 brookly red

dude I did! but we're getting along today, lets drop it :D

246 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:24:43pm

re: #235 Thanos

The best way to get rid of nuclear weapons is to make the substances used to make them too valuable to use for that purpose. Split atoms for peace.

that sounds good till you think about what heroin costs per gram...

247 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:24:50pm

Note to moonbats:

Whales are not your fluffy little pets.

And a canoe on the open ocean is not a good way to convince them otherwise.

248 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:25:10pm

re: #245 windsagio

dude I did! but we're getting along today, lets drop it :D

no, no go for it.

249 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:25:24pm

re: #230 Killgore Trout

Well, it looks like I lost a hard drive yesterday... just went belly-up.

Computers - bah!

250 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:25:32pm

re: #235 Thanos

The best way to get rid of nuclear weapons is to make the substances used to make them too valuable to use for that purpose. Split atoms for peace.

Excellent argument. Really that is first rate!

251 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:25:32pm

re: #243 researchok

Ok yeah, your repeated use of the term 'the greenies' I think is reflecting a certain unhelpful mindset.

Or to put it another way, your dittos are showing.

252 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:25:51pm

re: #228 LudwigVanQuixote

I do not debate that deploying so called "clean coal" technologies while we switch over to other sources of power and phase coal out is essential. However, the entire point is that a century of clean coal burning is sufficient to push us over a tipping point. It is therefore not an option.

But it's what's happening.

253 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:25:58pm

re: #244 windsagio

Man, already you're trying to set the NRC to quash competition.

jerk.

I know I am such a commie wanting my energy to be safe and all.

254 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:26:02pm

re: #188 Fozzie Bear

I worry about what happens to the safety record when the GOP gains power and "deregulates". I worry about what happens when fuel goes "missing". I worry about what happens when Met-Ed starts cutting corners like crazy to make a little extra cash. This cannot be trusted to the 'free market'. This absolutely cannot EVER be allowed to be run with less regard for safety than money. One unlicenced dumping of waste could ruin a place for centuries, and poison thousands or millions.

This is the stuff that I think about when I think about the downsides of nuclear. The upside is of course enormous, but it still scares the ever-loving shit out of me.

All good concerns, however operationally their record is still better than every other power producer. This week you've seen deaths from coal and deaths from oil. Can you show me a death since Chernobyl from nuclear?

255 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:26:15pm

re: #247 Cato the Elder

A few times in my parents boat, we were suddenly surrounded by pods of Orcas. As a kid, it scared the hell out of me.

256 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:26:51pm

re: #252 Cato the Elder

But it's what's happening.

Right, so where are the new nuclear initiatives? Where is the plan to phase coal use out? Where is the plan to build and deploy a smart grid?

257 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:26:53pm

re: #210 freetoken

I was using it in the sense of "getting larger", that is, Glenn Beck seems to be doubling down on his anti-AGW, anti-science routine.

Bull. You just don't know how to use the word.

Learn.

258 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:27:00pm

re: #251 windsagio

Ok yeah, your repeated use of the term 'the greenies' I think is reflecting a certain unhelpful mindset.

Or to put it another way, your dittos are showing.

Uh, the term greenies has been around a long, long time. And you know nothing about me or my politics.

259 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:27:33pm

OT: Pat Condell tell us, What I Know About Islam.

For Pat this is fairly reserved, not as much vitriol as many of his videos, but he still manages to get his point across clearly. He is attacking the "scholars" and leaders of Islam who advocate returning to the 7th century rather than the religion itself. ;)


260 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:27:34pm

re: #196 ausador

The waste will also have the moisture removed from it and be cast into glass blocks that are expected to last for over 100,000 years. We already spent 13-15 billion prepping the site and now the NIMBYs wont let us use the damn thing.

reposted for emphasis.

261 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:27:40pm

re: #256 ludwigvanquixote

No, we're fucked anyways, so we should do nothing! Suggesting we try to save ourselves is just 'useless platitudes'!!!!!1!

262 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:27:52pm

re: #254 Thanos

All good concerns, however operationally their record is still better than every other power producer. This week you've seen deaths from coal and deaths from oil. Can you show me a death since Chernobyl from nuclear?

Another even bigger point- one that the Pentagon itself is getting ever more vocal about - is that they themselves do not want to go to more and more hot zones to secure fossil fuel flows.

263 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:27:59pm

re: #261 windsagio

Note, I don't actually believe this. Its cowardly and lazy

264 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:28:35pm

re: #260 Aceofwhat?

reposted for emphasis.

And what happens after 100,000 years? Not our problem. Right?

265 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:29:29pm

re: #236 LudwigVanQuixote

I guess my point is that I know the tech is there and we can do it safely. I have faith in the technology, I just don't have faith in everyone who could potentially end up running it.

Even the best designs produce waste which is dangerous and fuel which is equally dangerous. All the existing designs can be broken catastrophically by maintaining them poorly or by cutting corners.

ALL THAT HAVING BEEN SAID...

We should go for it. It needs to be coupled, imo, with massive spending on research for better battery technology (to make wind/solar better options), and research in "next generation" technologies like fusion. Yes, fusion is a long way off, but at least in theory its very clean and an order of magnitude more powerful than fission. Yes, I know, it's not there yet, or even close. But a giant glowing proof of concept is right over our heads. I think it can be done. (Not yet, but we need to push in all directions, and hard.)

266 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:29:37pm

re: #264 Walter L. Newton

And what happens after 100,000 years? Not our problem. Right?

wooooh hoooow we just paid off the stimulus!

267 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:29:41pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

I have mentioned "waste" a number of times, and the more scientific minded in this group seem to want to ignore it. Color me skeptical, but the most safe operating reactor still produces hot waste, right? And with all our advancements in who we could design and run a plant, I think the waste problem still has the caveats as always.

Or am I missing something?

Third Gen, and the upcoming (I fervently hope) fourth Gen, use the fuel until it is almost cool (in a manner of speaking).

268 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:29:42pm

re: #264 Walter L. Newton

Sometimes immediate survival is more important.

Anyways, and more to the point, its not like the waste issue is gonna get WORSE just from time. 100,000 years of continuous operation of nuclear plants leading to a waste crisis, I'd call that a success.

269 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:30:09pm

re: #196 ausador

The waste will also have the moisture removed from it and be cast into glass blocks that are expected to last for over 100,000 years. We already spent 13-15 billion prepping the site and now the NIMBYs wont let us use the damn thing.

As I said above,

Which is why there needs to be actual strong leadership on this issue with an awful lot of STFU action form DC.

270 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:30:11pm

re: #216 windsagio

So not even a good goal to reach towards?

Visualize whirled peas.

re: #220 windsagio

OK given your interactions on this subject,

Is the secret here your 10,000 shares of Massey stock?

Go have anal congress with yourself.

271 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:30:37pm

re: #270 Cato the Elder

Oh I get it, you just want something to fight about.

Tough day?

272 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:31:08pm

re: #253 ludwigvanquixote

I know I am such a commie wanting my energy to be safe and all.

this neocon fascist thug is right there with you...

(begs the question...can one be a thug at 160lbs? perhaps a question for the next Lounge...)

273 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:31:34pm

re: #257 Cato the Elder

Does the moon wax, Cato?

274 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:31:35pm

re: #265 Fozzie Bear

I guess my point is that I know the tech is there and we can do it safely. I have faith in the technology, I just don't have faith in everyone who could potentially end up running it.

Even the best designs produce waste which is dangerous and fuel which is equally dangerous. All the existing designs can be broken catastrophically by maintaining them poorly or by cutting corners.

ALL THAT HAVING BEEN SAID...

We should go for it. It needs to be coupled, imo, with massive spending on research for better battery technology (to make wind/solar better options), and research in "next generation" technologies like fusion. Yes, fusion is a long way off, but at least in theory its very clean and an order of magnitude more powerful than fission. Yes, I know, it's not there yet, or even close. But a giant glowing proof of concept is right over our heads. I think it can be done. (Not yet, but we need to push in all directions, and hard.)

I'll take the chance that the lady turns into a tiger cub, over a very definite certainty of a pack of angry and hungry tigers any day.

275 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:31:37pm

re: #191 windsagio

Solar and wind definitely have a place, esp. if we can add real storage capacity to the grid. Nukes are just what we can do Right now, en masse.

Batteries bring their own problems.

276 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:31:40pm

re: #272 Aceofwhat?

Do you know martial arts?

... actually, you'd be more of a 'mook' then, I guess.

277 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:31:42pm

re: #256 ludwigvanquixote

Right, so where are the new nuclear initiatives? Where is the plan to phase coal use out? Where is the plan to build and deploy a smart grid?

If economics don't stop 'em, green NIMBYs will.

278 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:32:13pm

re: #192 Walter L. Newton

If nuclear is the way to go, then why has it been such a dead issue for over 30 years?

Because we now have technology we didn't have before.

279 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:32:17pm

re: #261 windsagio

No, we're fucked anyways, so we should do nothing! Suggesting we try to save ourselves is just 'useless platitudes'!!!1!

I didn't say useless.

280 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:32:18pm

re: #269 LudwigVanQuixote

As I said above,

Which is why there needs to be actual strong leadership on this issue with an awful lot of STFU action form DC.

uhmmmm, on the other hand DC could just STFU ...

281 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:32:21pm

re: #277 Cato the Elder

If economics don't stop 'em, green NIMBYs will.

Which is why there needs to be actual strong leadership on this issue with an awful lot of STFU action form DC.

282 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:32:42pm

re: #275 b_sharp

Maybe so, but storage capacity is an important, if not vital piece of the puzzle.

Other nations do it already anwyays, and with worse tech.

283 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:32:52pm

re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote

Which is what I have been writing.

I always say the solution is nuclear, solar, and wind with a smart grid and battery deployment.

I have written that particular list for over a year here more times than I can easily count.

Just giving you support bro.

284 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:32:55pm

re: #249 freetoken

Well, it looks like I lost a hard drive yesterday... just went belly-up.

Computers - bah!

One of my drives is starting to make noise. The end is near. I hate having to start a new hard drive, It's always a pain in the ass.

285 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:33:00pm

re: #272 Aceofwhat?

this neocon fascist thug is right there with you...

(begs the question...can one be a thug at 160lbs? perhaps a question for the next Lounge...)

32oz bat... next.

286 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:33:16pm

re: #273 freetoken

Does the moon wax, Cato?

The moon waxes Cato.

287 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:33:44pm

re: #268 windsagio

Sometimes immediate survival is more important.

Anyways, and more to the point, its not like the waste issue is gonna get WORSE just from time. 100,000 years of continuous operation of nuclear plants leading to a waste crisis, I'd call that a success.

Fine... I can imagine this same conversation 130 years ago in regards to fossil fueled mechanization. And see where we are now.

I say before we make a big leap, we solve the problems that have caused this issue to be a "hot" topic for 30 or more years (pun intended)...

Otherwise, I suspect people like us will be having a similar conversation 130 years from now, about the waste... or maybe 100,000 years from now.

I don't trust the concept of "we'll find a solution in the future."

288 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:33:55pm

re: #283 b_sharp

Just giving you support bro.

I appreciate it!

289 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:34:21pm

re: #286 Cato the Elder

The moon waxes Cato.

And it got those hairs off your ass from orbit :)

290 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:34:29pm

re: #284 Killgore Trout

One of my drives is starting to make noise. The end is near. I hate having to start a new hard drive, It's always a pain in the ass.

The good news: very fast full terrabyte drives are cheap. I've seen some good prices at Sam's if you have a card or a friend who does.

291 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:34:42pm

re: #278 b_sharp

Because we now have technology we didn't have before.

You mean we figured a way to make the waste totally and eternally harmless?

292 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:34:48pm

re: #273 freetoken

Does the moon wax, Cato?


Them dang poets wax...Pisses me off..You got to walk up to them to slap them in the face....Stop waxing poetic!
*wink*
Back to the Draft..

293 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:34:56pm

re: #262 ludwigvanquixote

Another even bigger point- one that the Pentagon itself is getting ever more vocal about - is that they themselves do not want to go to more and more hot zones to secure fossil fuel flows.

This, right here, is one of the arguments that make the case most strongly for even those idiots who refuse to acknowledge the obvious effects of CO2 accumulation.

As a political reality, this argument works on wingnuts and moonbats alike, and we should be using the crap out of it.

294 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:34:57pm

re: #287 Walter L. Newton

130 years ago they had no freakin' idea what they were getting into (if I'm wrong correct me).

That's terrible reasoning. If we stop because a new problem might emerge, we might as well give up now.

295 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:34:57pm

The lunar phases of the moon wax and wane as it appears larger or smaller in our sky. The waxing moon grows larger in the sky until it is full, the waning moon the seems to lessen. I believe the "waxing" term comes from candle making. As the candle is repeatedly dipped in the wax, it grows larger.
: )

Thoughts go out to Brett Michaels and his family:[Link: www.people.com...]

296 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:35:05pm

re: #285 brookly red

32oz bat... next.

i like where your head's at...

297 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:35:13pm

re: #281 LudwigVanQuixote

Which is why there needs to be actual strong leadership on this issue with an awful lot of STFU action form DC.

Holding breath.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Phew!

298 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:35:14pm

re: #208 EmmmieG

I want home rain power. (More useful to me personally.) Why haven't the geeks provided me with this yet?

We are hogging the water until the price skyrockets.

299 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:35:29pm

re: #293 Fozzie Bear

This, right here, is one of the arguments that make the case most strongly for even those idiots who refuse to acknowledge the obvious effects of CO2 accumulation.

As a political reality, this argument works on wingnuts and moonbats alike, and we should be using the crap out of it.

Amen brother.

300 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:35:43pm

re: #298 b_sharp

Where are you exactly?

301 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:36:10pm

re: #294 windsagio

130 years ago they had no freakin' idea what they were getting into (if I'm wrong correct me).

That's terrible reasoning. If we stop because a new problem might emerge, we might as well give up now.

No... it's not a new problem, it's an old problem. Waste, we yet have a way to make it totally and eternally harmless. I think that should be a concern, for mere mortals and scientists.

302 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:36:18pm

re: #266 brookly red

woooh hooow we just paid off the stimulus!

ROFL! As somebody who agreed with the stimulus, you still made me laugh.

Humor is generally the best way to get a point across to those with whom you disagree, imo.

303 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:36:33pm

re: #287 Walter L. Newton

Why not? We almost always have found that solution. The short slices of time where we've marched backwards are few since the dark ages. All in all things have gotten better over time, and I expect that they will continue to do so except for short interruptions of insanity.

304 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:36:40pm

re: #297 Cato the Elder

Holding breath.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Phew!

Point taken. So the way we get that is by having common people with uncommon word smithing skills like you, speak out about the need for immediate action. If enough do that, the critter in DC will feel that they have to act.

305 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:37:34pm

re: #301 Walter L. Newton

Well hows this; our backs are pretty much against the wall, and we don't have the option of waiting for a solution.


Anyways, a number of potential solutions have been mentioned (yucca mountain and subduction zone dumping being 2). Not remotely perfect, but the situation isn't as dire as you're presenting.

306 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:37:50pm

re: #299 LudwigVanQuixote

Amen brother.

I'll say it again... Split atoms for peace.

307 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:38:36pm

re: #301 Walter L. Newton

Also, I seriously wish I had a baseline for you on this subject >

308 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:39:39pm

Subduction zones, if we can work it, would hold alot of promise. Once something goes into one of them, it isn't coming out anywhere for a loooooooong time.

But how far along are we in making that actually work?

309 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:39:40pm

re: #229 researchok

Why do you rely so heavily on sources who play the man rather than the puck?

310 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:39:52pm

re: #290 Thanos

The good news: very fast full terrabyte drives are cheap. I've seen some good prices at Sam's if you have a card or a friend who does.

I might try one of those solid state drives next. I don't need a hell of a lot of storage. Those big drives crap out long before I can fill them up.

311 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:39:52pm

re: #306 Thanos

I'll say it again... Split atoms for peace.

Amen brother!

312 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:40:00pm

re: #306 Thanos

I'll say it again... Split atoms for peace.

preach it...

(insert gospel choir here)

313 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:40:15pm

re: #303 Thanos

Why not? We almost always have found that solution. The short slices of time where we've marched backwards are few since the dark ages. All in all things have gotten better over time, and I expect that they will continue to do so except for short interruptions of insanity.

You "suspect," "I expect," no, when it comes to something like nuclear waste, I would like to move forward with a already found solution to make it totally and eternally harmless.

Evidently we have marched backwards for about 200 years, adding enough CO2 to the planet to almost tip it to a point of no return in which billions and billions will die.

So, let's just forget about that little "march backwards" and get on to jumping on the nuclear bandwagon when we have proof positive that waste can be a problem, and right now our only solution is to contain it.

Yep... that's moving forward.

314 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:40:32pm

re: #308 Fozzie Bear

presuming we can beat the politics, the ohter storage solutions we have will last plenty long enough.

315 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:40:50pm

re: #305 windsagio

Well hows this; our backs are pretty much against the wall, and we don't have the option of waiting for a solution.

Anyways, a number of potential solutions have been mentioned (yucca mountain and subduction zone dumping being 2). Not remotely perfect, but the situation isn't as dire as you're presenting.

Regarding subduction zone dumping it's an idea that the Russians are pursuing... see here from 4 years ago.

316 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:40:51pm

re: #309 b_sharp

Why do you rely so heavily on sources who play the man rather than the puck?

That is a great metaphor for identity politics. I'm going to use that in the future, shamelessly and without attribution, unless it's here of course.

317 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:41:21pm

re: #301 Walter L. Newton

No... it's not a new problem, it's an old problem. Waste, we yet have a way to make it totally and eternally harmless. I think that should be a concern, for mere mortals and scientists.

a simple pebble is not harmless... just ask Goliath. We make the waste into 30mm " pebbles" and it is the best we can do...

318 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:41:21pm

re: #316 Fozzie Bear

yeah seconded.

319 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:41:51pm

BTW, several tornadoes today... also now live.

Yesterday was a good day for some tornado chasers, evidently, as many good images were captured. What I like about this one is the herd... like, when one has fresh grass, why care about the weather?

320 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:42:27pm

re: #313 Walter L. Newton

You "suspect," "I expect," no, when it comes to something like nuclear waste, I would like to move forward with a already found solution to make it totally and eternally harmless.

Evidently we have marched backwards for about 200 years, adding enough CO2 to the planet to almost tip it to a point of no return in which billions and billions will die.

So, let's just forget about that little "march backwards" and get on to jumping on the nuclear bandwagon when we have proof positive that waste can be a problem, and right now our only solution is to contain it.

Yep... that's moving forward.

you missed post#260, which was itself a repost.

321 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:43:02pm

re: #307 windsagio

Also, I seriously wish I had a baseline for you on this subject >

You are reading my baseline.

322 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:43:38pm

re: #321 Walter L. Newton

heh, I want to think better of you than that :p

All this gloom and doom laziness is unbecoming

323 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:44:26pm

re: #320 Aceofwhat?

you missed post#260, which was itself a repost.

No I didn't. The post stated what the method will contain it for 100,000 years, not that it would make it harmless for eternity.

324 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:45:34pm

Totally OT, but the room is getting hot and I want to brag anyways.

in a few weeks, I'm wasting some precious fuel and Taking WUB and some friends via our boat to our private beach.



View Larger Map

Excited!

325 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:45:36pm

re: #313 Walter L. Newton

Ok Walter let me phrase it differently: nuclear is inevitable. If we don't do it people die in masses. You are worried over a nit, a small engineering problem, when there are coal reactors pumping radioactive waste into the atmosphere near you right now.

Breath it in and suck it up buddy, coal miners died for your power this week

326 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:46:01pm

re: #323 Walter L. Newton

No I didn't. The post stated what the method will contain it for 100,000 years, not that it would make it harmless for eternity.

nothing is harmless Walter if you have harm in your heart...

327 cliffster  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:46:05pm

re: #319 freetoken

BTW, several tornadoes today... also now live.

Yesterday was a good day for some tornado chasers, evidently, as many good images were captured. What I like about this one is the herd... like, when one has fresh grass, why care about the weather?

Here in Central Texas, supposed to get crazy with the tornadoes. We never actually get them in Austin, must be the hill country border or something. But crazy storms coming nonetheless. In fact, I hear thunder right now.

328 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:46:06pm

Tornado chasers... not exactly the epitome of elegance.

329 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:47:07pm

re: #309 b_sharp

Why do you rely so heavily on sources who play the man rather than the puck?

Shermer's credentials are impeccable.

Also, I play both, as needed to make my point.

330 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:47:31pm

re: #313 Walter L. Newton

You "suspect," "I expect," no, when it comes to something like nuclear waste, I would like to move forward with a already found solution to make it totally and eternally harmless.

Evidently we have marched backwards for about 200 years, adding enough CO2 to the planet to almost tip it to a point of no return in which billions and billions will die.

So, let's just forget about that little "march backwards" and get on to jumping on the nuclear bandwagon when we have proof positive that waste can be a problem, and right now our only solution is to contain it.

Yep... that's moving forward.

Which is why you are a jerk Walter. It doesn't really matter which side of the anti-science crap comes from, you read and bring distorted propaganda pieces, bring them as an "oh so concerned" little truth seeker after believeing the crap in them and then refuse to look at the real answers you have been given by folks who actually know what they are talking about.

I want you to try something on.

You are not a scientist.

You don't know science.

You are a guy who works at a supermarket - not that there is anything wrong with that - who has no business consistently coming off as if he knows a damn thing about these things and then refusing to get real facts from those who know the material.

The entire point of 3rd and 4th gen reactors with reusable fuel cycles is that they produce vastly less waste that is vastly less hot. Don't take our words for it. Go and actually read up on them and know what you are talking about before you open your ignorant, arrogant and foolish mouth.

331 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:47:33pm

oops... fixed:

Tornado chasers... not exactly the epitome of elegance.

332 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:47:44pm

re: #323 Walter L. Newton

No I didn't. The post stated what the method will contain it for 100,000 years, not that it would make it harmless for eternity.

after 100,000 years, it's damn close to harmless!

333 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:47:58pm

re: #322 windsagio

heh, I want to think better of you than that :p

All this gloom and doom laziness is unbecoming

I really don't give a shit. Suddenly wanting to jump on the nuclear bandwagon because we may have almost fucked up the planet and have put billions and billions of lives at stake, without setting our sights on solving the waste problem NOW, to make it eternally safe (not just contained for a indefinite period of time) seems to be as selfish as those who don't care a whit about climate change just because they want to have their luxuries when they want them.

Make the waste totally safe first. I'm getting tired of waxing on this subject.

334 Unakite  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:48:36pm

re: #42 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course the issues with a scientific link library are the following:

1. It should be something all lizards should be able to add too.

2. As a result, for everything that I or one of the other science types here posts from NAS, NASA, NOAA, Princeton etc...there will be three posts from Fox "Volksministerium für das Wohl des Volkes" News and other "Cosanginuity" Monckton types that their posters believe count as science.

3. Charles probably has enough to do without having to become a journal editor who would then be fumed at by the crazies for suppressing their "science."

SO OK I get that!

Charles, is there some way that I or any lizard can have our own link file that we control? Something like Ludwig's links that I would put the AGW stuff into and then other lizards can decide if they are any good or not on their own, but I can at least promise to only put valid science links into?

Just starting at the top so don't hammer me for the stealth upding, but I think this is a good idea. In a little while, as I read through, I'll find out the answer. :)

335 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:48:41pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

I really don't give a shit. Suddenly wanting to jump on the nuclear bandwagon because we may have almost fucked up the planet and have put billions and billions of lives at stake, without setting our sights on solving the waste problem NOW, to make it eternally safe (not just contained for a indefinite period of time) seems to be as selfish as those who don't care a whit about climate change just because they want to have their luxuries when they want them.

Make the waste totally safe first. I'm getting tired of waxing on this subject.

I want you to try something on.

You are not a scientist.

You don't know science.

You are a guy who works at a supermarket - not that there is anything wrong with that - who has no business consistently coming off as if he knows a damn thing about these things and then refusing to get real facts from those who know the material.

The entire point of 3rd and 4th gen reactors with reusable fuel cycles is that they produce vastly less waste that is vastly less hot. Don't take our words for it. Go and actually read up on them and know what you are talking about before you open your ignorant, arrogant and foolish mouth.

336 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:49:16pm

re: #330 LudwigVanQuixote

The entire point of 3rd and 4th gen reactors with reusable fuel cycles is that they produce vastly less waste that is vastly less hot. Don't take our words for it. Go and actually read up on them and know what you are talking about before you open your ignorant, arrogant and foolish mouth.

Next up: You telling Walter he's worse than a pedophile.

Chill, dude.

337 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:49:22pm

re: #324 windsagio

Totally OT, but the room is getting hot and I want to brag anyways.

in a few weeks, I'm wasting some precious fuel and Taking WUB and some friends via our boat to our private beach.


View Larger Map

Excited!

Nice -- don't get too deep in the woods though, there's some dangerous fungus loose up there...

338 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:49:22pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

I'm getting tired of waxing on this subject.

Most of your post is pretty bad, but I had to give you a + for this.

339 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:49:33pm

re: #330 LudwigVanQuixote

Talk to me when you go from "vastly less hot" to harmless.

340 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:49:58pm

re: #335 LudwigVanQuixote

Talk to me when you go from "vastly less hot" to harmless.

341 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:49:59pm

re: #337 Thanos

yeah heard about that >>

Worth the risk IMO, occasionally need to get totally away from media and computers for a few days.

342 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:50:13pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

I really don't give a shit. Suddenly wanting to jump on the nuclear bandwagon because we may have almost fucked up the planet and have put billions and billions of lives at stake, without setting our sights on solving the waste problem NOW, to make it eternally safe (not just contained for a indefinite period of time) seems to be as selfish as those who don't care a whit about climate change just because they want to have their luxuries when they want them.

Make the waste totally safe first. I'm getting tired of waxing on this subject.

The bolded is no more possible than unicorns shitting rainbows. Nothing is absolute and what we are doing right now is far worse than what people here are suggesting.

343 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:50:16pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

I really don't give a shit. Suddenly wanting to jump on the nuclear bandwagon because we may have almost fucked up the planet and have put billions and billions of lives at stake, without setting our sights on solving the waste problem NOW, to make it eternally safe (not just contained for a indefinite period of time) seems to be as selfish as those who don't care a whit about climate change just because they want to have their luxuries when they want them.

Make the waste totally safe first. I'm getting tired of waxing on this subject.

the Buddha came into enlightenment witnessing birds eating worms... some things must die for others to live.

344 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:50:30pm

re: #331 freetoken

oops... fixed:

Tornado chasers... not exactly the epitome of elegance.

A car made entirely of of Bondo, with bondage leather accents?

Me want.

345 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:50:32pm

re: #324 windsagio

See ya there.

346 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:50:51pm

re: #243 researchok

The greenies can be anywhere they want to be on solar and wind because they are at the fore of blocking transmissions towers. They've already blocked projects.

Don't conflate 'greenies' (an affectionate pet name for environmentalists I hope) with the NIMBY folk. 'Capitalist pigs' and 'corporate sycophants' are just as likely to be NIMBYists as the 'greenies'. Don't confuse them for the Luddites that fear any and all technology but just love alternative cures for everything, either.

347 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:50:52pm

re: #336 Cato the Elder

That was simply awful.

Like seriously, WTF?

348 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:50:59pm

re: #336 Cato the Elder

Next up: You telling Walter he's worse than a pedophile.

Chill, dude.

NO really, I have little patience for ignorant fools pretending to be scientific and then saying stupid shit. It's a reflex.

349 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:51:01pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

I really don't give a shit. Suddenly wanting to jump on the nuclear bandwagon because we may have almost fucked up the planet and have put billions and billions of lives at stake, without setting our sights on solving the waste problem NOW, to make it eternally safe (not just contained for a indefinite period of time) seems to be as selfish as those who don't care a whit about climate change just because they want to have their luxuries when they want them.

Make the waste totally safe first. I'm getting tired of waxing on this subject.

see #332.

intensity of waste is inversely related with half-life. after 100,000 years, you can practically feed it to your dog.

i don't understand why that doesn't all but wrap up the question for you? it's a valid question, but this is a valid answer. isotopes don't just keep emitting particles for ever and ever...they sorta run out.

sorry if that sounds patronizing, but i'm having a little difficulty figuring out why you think we need to have a plan > 100,000 years...

350 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:51:31pm

re: #286 Cato the Elder

The moon waxes Cato.

In Soviet Union, wax moons you!

351 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:51:31pm

re: #346 b_sharp

Don't conflate 'greenies' (an affectionate pet name for environmentalists I hope) with the NIMBY folk. 'Capitalist pigs' and 'corporate sycophants' are just as likely to be NIMBYists as the 'greenies'. Don't confuse them for the Luddites that fear any and all technology but just love alternative cures for everything, either.

Great post!

352 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:51:35pm

re: #345 Stanley Sea

IF you move to portland, and we don't hate each other, I'll totally take you sometime.

Its something worth showing off :D

353 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:51:48pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

I've studied nuclear energy, pitfalls and benefits for 20 yrs. I don't call that suddenly. I linked upthread to an article that counters your "concern questions" and did so four years ago, that's not suddenly either.

Nuclear has been providing 20 percent of our energy for decades, that's not sudden either.

354 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:51:59pm

re: #350 Alouette

In Soviet Union, wax moons you!

In Soviet Union all people have wax!

355 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:52:32pm

re: #353 Thanos

I've studied nuclear energy, pitfalls and benefits for 20 yrs. I don't call that suddenly. I linked upthread to an article that counters your "concern questions" and did so four years ago, that's not suddenly either.

Nuclear has been providing 20 percent of our energy for decades, that's not sudden either.

Don't oppress him with facts like that. It's not as if he will read them.

356 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:52:33pm

re: #339 Walter L. Newton

Talk to me when you go from "vastly less hot" to harmless.

Show me a harmless energy source first Walter

357 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:52:49pm

re: #353 Thanos

I actually really suspect he's just stirring the pot at this point, as he's prone to do.

358 cliffster  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:52:58pm

re: #336 Cato the Elder

Next up: You telling Walter he's worse than a pedophile.

Chill, dude.

Yeah. Quit talking, grocery store guy. Go bag some groceries or something. Sheesh

359 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:53:18pm

re: #347 windsagio

That was simply awful.

Like seriously, WTF?

Actual rant from LVQ a few months ago. "Climate change deniers are worse than pedophiles."

Look it up.

360 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:53:24pm

re: #258 researchok

Uh, the term greenies has been around a long, long time. And you know nothing about me or my politics.

Doesn't matter how long the term has been around. What does matter is the connotation, and in the context you use it, that ain't so good.

361 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:53:32pm

re: #354 LudwigVanQuixote

In Soviet Union all people have wax!

But if you outlaw the wax, only outlaws will have wax!

362 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:53:34pm

re: #349 Aceofwhat?

see #332.

intensity of waste is inversely related with half-life. after 100,000 years, you can practically feed it to your dog.

i don't understand why that doesn't all but wrap up the question for you? it's a valid question, but this is a valid answer. isotopes don't just keep emitting particles for ever and ever...they sorta run out.

sorry if that sounds patronizing, but i'm having a little difficulty figuring out why you think we need to have a plan > 100,000 years...

Because he is not a scientist that he claims to be and he enjoys being oh so concerned in a desperate attempt to seem clever.

363 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:53:52pm

re: #356 Thanos

Show me a harmless energy source first Walter

There is none. As Ludwig says (minus nuclear), solar and wind, better storage methods are safer start.

364 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:54:04pm

re: #346 b_sharp

Don't conflate 'greenies' (an affectionate pet name for environmentalists I hope) with the NIMBY folk. 'Capitalist pigs' and 'corporate sycophants' are just as likely to be NIMBYists as the 'greenies'. Don't confuse them for the Luddites that fear any and all technology but just love alternative cures for everything, either.

Yes, agreed.

Had you read an earlier comment, I noted the similarities between the greenies and the suits.

The NIMBY people are another deal (read: problem) altogether.

365 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:54:15pm

re: #359 Cato the Elder

I know, and he apologized for it.

You're really squirming for any kind of emotional hold if you're pulling that crap up.

Just because people *gasp* disagree with you, its no reason to act like a Douche.

366 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:54:20pm

re: #340 Walter L. Newton

Talk to me when you go from "vastly less hot" to harmless.

Talk to me when you can calculate a half life.

367 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:54:26pm

re: #356 Thanos

Show me a harmless energy source first Walter

No... the topic is nuclear, isn't it?

368 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:54:54pm

re: #354 LudwigVanQuixote

In Soviet Union all people have wax!

But no private waxing. Is forbidden!

369 Unakite  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:54:59pm

re: #82 cliffster

The earth will someday crash into the sun. That is its fate.

No, the sun will expand and crash into the earth, but it's all relative. :)

370 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:55:29pm

re: #366 LudwigVanQuixote

Talk to me when you can calculate a half life.

I can't. I want to eliminate all nuclear from this planet, and that includes weapons.

371 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:55:36pm

re: #264 Walter L. Newton

And what happens after 100,000 years? Not our problem. Right?

By 100,00 years from now we'll be able to build rockets to launch our nuclear waste into the sun! Of course the fine print of this plan is that it does not insure no supervillians will be created in the process...

372 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:55:47pm

re: #362 LudwigVanQuixote

Because he is not a scientist that he claims to be and he enjoys being oh so concerned in a desperate attempt to seem clever.

no worries. i have the patience to continue to try to explain why i believe in this energy source as a crucial, immediate step.

373 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:56:01pm

re: #370 Walter L. Newton

Said position, of course, being totally wrong.

374 Unakite  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:56:22pm

re: #88 ausador

You've got that backwards, the Sun will expand into a "red giant" and crash into the Earth. Even if it doesn't quite inflate enough to reach earths orbit the planet will be incinerated.

But not for about another 5 billion years give or take a few hundred million.

Whoops! Am I way behind!!

375 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:56:26pm

re: #365 windsagio

I know, and he apologized for it.

You're really squirming for any kind of emotional hold if you're pulling that crap up.

Just because people *gasp* disagree with you, its no reason to act like a Douche.

Just because you think I'm a douche, it's [sic] no reason to capitalize the word.

376 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:56:50pm

re: #371 jamesfirecat

Or, maybe, Superheros!

That alone makes it worth the risk, imo

377 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:56:58pm

re: #103 jetpilot1101

Yeah but Greenpeace did give us Captain Paul Watson and his merry band of buffoons. God knows I agree that we shouldn't be killing whales but for the love of all that is holy, can't he at least hire a competent crew or read one or two books on general seamanship.

It's a reality show, which means the problems and conflicts are amplified in the editing process to heighten the drama. Also, many of the crew are hippies who don't follow orders very well.

378 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:57:00pm

re: #349 Aceofwhat?

see #332.

intensity of waste is inversely related with half-life. after 100,000 years, you can practically feed it to your dog.

i don't understand why that doesn't all but wrap up the question for you? it's a valid question, but this is a valid answer. isotopes don't just keep emitting particles for ever and ever...they sorta run out.

sorry if that sounds patronizing, but i'm having a little difficulty figuring out why you think we need to have a plan > 100,000 years...

Actually you can eat a teaspoon of weapons grade plutonium and survive with a bad burn and slightly increased risk for cancer. A pro-nuclear advocate used to offer to eat a teaspoon of plutonium in the '80s if the anti nuclear advocates would eat a teaspoon of some other substance. Fact is there are other substances near Walter in the mountains that would kill him lots quicker and in smaller quantities than trying to OD on plutonium.

379 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:57:07pm

re: #359 Cato the Elder

Actual rant from LVQ a few months ago. "Climate change deniers are worse than pedophiles."

Look it up.

Cato, show the whole post if you are going to play that game.

And for the record, a pedophile desecrates a child - perhaps a dozen over his "career." AGW will kill millions of them if we do not change course. So yes, actively trying to prevent changing course is worse than being a pedophile by the simple metric that more children die.

And I stand by that, because as I have said many times,

Evil has no messenger.

380 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:57:32pm

re: #373 windsagio

Said position, of course, being totally wrong.

Only thing is, you PC douche, ten years ago you would have agreed.

381 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:57:45pm

re: #370 Walter L. Newton

I can't. I want to eliminate all nuclear from this planet, and that includes weapons.

the sunlight is nuclear hommie... it is what it is.

382 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:57:52pm

re: #325 Thanos


Breath it in and suck it up buddy, coal miners died for your power this week

Repeated for truth.

William

383 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:57:55pm

re: #349 Aceofwhat?

see #332.

intensity of waste is inversely related with half-life. after 100,000 years, you can practically feed it to your dog.

i don't understand why that doesn't all but wrap up the question for you? it's a valid question, but this is a valid answer. isotopes don't just keep emitting particles for ever and ever...they sorta run out.

sorry if that sounds patronizing, but i'm having a little difficulty figuring out why you think we need to have a plan > 100,000 years...

You don't need that..The Navy has been securing waste before I was Born..
We mixed waste with concete and poured into these huge 4" thick Stainless steel containers and sealed them..I figure in 50000 years somebody will be smart enough to put it a larger container of 4" thick super duper Stainless Steel containers..
Safety of waste is such a crap argument.. We are an advanced civilization with advanced technology.. We can do this..Safely..
/If you want to kill some folks look under your sink for deadly chemicals

384 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:58:14pm

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

So you are afraid to compare Nuclear's safety record to that of other power sources I take it.

385 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:58:25pm

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

No... the topic is nuclear, isn't it?

And if you knew what a half life was, you would know that 100,000 years is good enough. At that point any waste would be below background radiation - you know what you and every other human evolved to take everyday?

386 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:58:26pm

re: #378 Thanos

Actually you can eat a teaspoon of weapons grade plutonium and survive with a bad burn and slightly increased risk for cancer. A pro-nuclear advocate used to offer to eat a teaspoon of plutonium in the '80s if the anti nuclear advocates would eat a teaspoon of some other substance. Fact is there are other substances near Walter in the mountains that would kill him lots quicker and in smaller quantities than trying to OD on plutonium.

I'm sure it's only a mater of time before someone builds a reality show around this. Perhaps the other teaspoon would contain animal fecal matter.


Nuke or Poop?

387 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:58:34pm

re: #379 LudwigVanQuixote

Cato, show the whole post if you are going to play that game.

And for the record, a pedophile desecrates a child - perhaps a dozen over his "career." AGW will kill millions of them if we do not change course. So yes, actively trying to prevent changing course is worse than being a pedophile by the simple metric that more children die.

And I stand by that, because as I have said many times,

Evil has no messenger.

And screaming at people changes nothing.

388 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:58:40pm

re: #380 Cato the Elder

Only thing is, you PC douche, ten years ago you would have agreed.

Methinks this conversation about nuclear would have been very different for some of these people 10 years ago.

389 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:58:48pm

re: #383 HoosierHoops

You don't need that..The Navy has been securing waste before I was Born..
We mixed waste with concete and poured into these huge 4" thick Stainless steel containers and sealed them..I figure in 50000 years somebody will be smart enough to put it a larger container of 4" thick super duper Stainless Steel containers..
Safety of waste is such a crap argument.. We are an advanced civilization with advanced technology.. We can do this..Safely..
/If you want to kill some folks look under your sink for deadly chemicals

Amen brother!

390 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:58:54pm

re: #375 Cato the Elder

Bad habit from German. Sucks I know.

If you didn't attack grammar/spelling errors all the time, I'd say that last attack reflected a weak position :p

Also, I don't think you're a douche, I think you're acting like one. Significant difference.

391 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:58:57pm

re: #287 Walter L. Newton

Fine... I can imagine this same conversation 130 years ago in regards to fossil fueled mechanization. And see where we are now.

I say before we make a big leap, we solve the problems that have caused this issue to be a "hot" topic for 30 or more years (pun intended)...

Otherwise, I suspect people like us will be having a similar conversation 130 years from now, about the waste... or maybe 100,000 years from now.

I don't trust the concept of "we'll find a solution in the future."

I don't either, but technology that addresses your concerns is much closer than 'some time in the future'. It's right in front of us.

392 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:59:14pm

re: #387 Cato the Elder

And screaming at people changes nothing.

I am not screaming Cato. I am talking simple truths.

393 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:59:29pm

re: #247 Cato the Elder

Note to moonbats:

Whales are not your fluffy little pets.

And a canoe on the open ocean is not a good way to convince them otherwise.

Unless you make your own canoe, and really know what you're doing.

/it's a little late, I got busy for a while...

394 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:59:45pm

re: #381 brookly red

Well, thermonuclear. Not at all the same thing.

395 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 4:59:51pm

re: #381 brookly red

the sunlight is nuclear hommie... it is what it is.

Would you please stop dropping in with you pithy little homilies. Let me have a little fun... I love to see the PC'ers spinning in the wind when their whole worlds are turned around.

396 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:00:03pm

re: #378 Thanos

Actually you can eat a teaspoon of weapons grade plutonium and survive with a bad burn and slightly increased risk for cancer. A pro-nuclear advocate used to offer to eat a teaspoon of plutonium in the '80s if the anti nuclear advocates would eat a teaspoon of some other substance. Fact is there are other substances near Walter in the mountains that would kill him lots quicker and in smaller quantities than trying to OD on plutonium.

that, too. i don't begrudge someone's concerns about waste if they haven't looked into it very far...but after 100,000 years we can pull it out and make pitching wedges out of it. So I'm sort of waiting for an objection, from anyone still overly concerned about nuclear energy, after these combined points are taken into consideration.

397 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:00:33pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

Because, the same problems that existed 30 years ago still exist today. In regards to waste, nothing has changed. We still have to store it, contain it and babysit it. Has much of anything changed in regards to the waste problems?

You keep repeating that without ever bothering to read any of the replies you have already gotten.

Yes, we can safely store the waste.

398 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:00:49pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

You mean we figured a way to make the waste totally and eternally harmless?

Take the wheels off the goal posts Walter. Newer technology puts the potential harm from nuke plants within the range of other power sources.

399 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:00:53pm

re: #378 Thanos

Actually you can eat a teaspoon of weapons grade plutonium and survive with a bad burn and slightly increased risk for cancer. A pro-nuclear advocate used to offer to eat a teaspoon of plutonium in the '80s if the anti nuclear advocates would eat a teaspoon of some other substance. Fact is there are other substances near Walter in the mountains that would kill him lots quicker and in smaller quantities than trying to OD on plutonium.

well yes but inhaling it is not so cool...

400 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:01:54pm

re: #388 Walter L. Newton

Methinks this conversation about nuclear would have been very different for some of these people 10 years ago.

Indeed. And the technology then was pretty much what it is now.

Only thing is, people are looking for a magical way to make their fears go poof.

If that involves embracing what they rejected for good reason in the past, well, at least they feel like all their shouting is accomplishing something.

401 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:02:01pm

re: #398 b_sharp

Take the wheels off the goal posts Walter. Newer technology puts the potential harm from nuke plants within the range of other power sources.

Well that's cool.

402 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:02:08pm

re: #380 Cato the Elder

The obvious fact that you don't know what I thought 10 years ago aside, even if that's true, I can take learned information and you know, change my position based on superior knowledge.

I've always liked Nuke tho', except for the fact that my family got burned bad on the WPPSS default.

403 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:02:21pm

re: #383 HoosierHoops

You don't need that..The Navy has been securing waste before I was Born..
We mixed waste with concete and poured into these huge 4" thick Stainless steel containers and sealed them..I figure in 50000 years somebody will be smart enough to put it a larger container of 4" thick super duper Stainless Steel containers..
Safety of waste is such a crap argument.. We are an advanced civilization with advanced technology.. We can do this..Safely..
/If you want to kill some folks look under your sink for deadly chemicals

well said!

404 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:02:22pm

re: #397 ausador

You keep repeating that without ever bothering to read any of the replies you have already gotten.

Yes, we can safely store the waste.

GOD DAMN RIGHT if we can store these a-holes in congress we can store anything!

405 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:02:28pm

re: #300 windsagio

Where are you exactly?

In my very comfortable recliner in our living room.

406 Unakite  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:02:30pm

re: #305 windsagio

Well hows this; our backs are pretty much against the wall, and we don't have the option of waiting for a solution.

Anyways, a number of potential solutions have been mentioned (yucca mountain and subduction zone dumping being 2). Not remotely perfect, but the situation isn't as dire as you're presenting.

As a geologist, I'm for subduction zone dumping, but then again, I'm off work, it's Friday, and I have wine.

I'm also for Yucca Mountain. Need to separate the science from the politics, but won't happen.

407 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:02:35pm

re: #400 Cato the Elder

Indeed. And the technology then was pretty much what it is now.

Only thing is, people are looking for a magical way to make their fears go poof.

If that involves embracing what they rejected for good reason in the past, well, at least they feel like all their shouting is accomplishing something.

I think you figured me out, didn't you? You sly little puppy you.

408 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:03:19pm

re: #399 brookly red

well yes but inhaling it is not so cool...

This is absolutely true because it sticks in your lungs. The chances for inhalation after it's in a fuel rod are so infinitesimal that you are in much greater danger statistically from your TV or from Radon in your basement, or your microwave, or that mercury in your home thermostat.

409 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:03:27pm

re: #400 Cato the Elder

Indeed. And the technology then was pretty much what it is now.

Only thing is, people are looking for a magical way to make their fears go poof.

If that involves embracing what they rejected for good reason in the past, well, at least they feel like all their shouting is accomplishing something.

A thousand up dings.

410 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:03:27pm

re: #395 Walter L. Newton

as you like it... hommie.

411 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:03:41pm

re: #392 LudwigVanQuixote

Glad you're still here. I wanted to show you this:

Is the Earth striking back?

412 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:04:07pm

re: #410 brookly red

as you like it... hommie.

You understand what I am saying.. right? You took that the right way, yes? Tongue in my cheek.

413 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:04:11pm

re: #410 brookly red

as you like it... hommie.

"Hommie"?

Is that the French spelling?

414 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:04:28pm

Followup to earlier string:

Porn surfing rampant at U.S. science foundation

(Moonie Washington Times, salt to taste)

Employee misconduct investigations, often involving workers accessing pornography from their government computers, grew sixfold last year inside the taxpayer-funded foundation that doles out billions of dollars of scientific research grants, according to budget documents and other records obtained by The Washington Times.

The problems at the National Science Foundation (NSF) were so pervasive they swamped the agency's inspector general and forced the internal watchdog to cut back on its primary mission of investigating grant fraud and recovering misspent tax dollars.

"To manage this dramatic increase without an increase in staff required us to significantly reduce our efforts to investigate grant fraud," the inspector general recently told Congress in a budget request. "We anticipate a significant decline in investigative recoveries and prosecutions in coming years as a direct result."

415 Unakite  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:04:43pm

re: #308 Fozzie Bear

Subduction zones, if we can work it, would hold alot of promise. Once something goes into one of them, it isn't coming out anywhere for a looong time.

But how far along are we in making that actually work?

We can work it, but before anything comes out it's going to take a long time going in (plate tectonics move in slow and mysterious ways).

416 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:05:01pm

re: #400 Cato the Elder

Indeed. And the technology then was pretty much what it is now.

That is less true than you might think. There have been huge advances in material science in the past decade to name one thing.

Only thing is, people are looking for a magical way to make their fears go poof.

3rd gen reactors are a proven technology. They are real.

If that involves embracing what they rejected for good reason in the past, well, at least they feel like all their shouting is accomplishing something.

See why your first two points are wrong and that refuse this one. Further, no at least for me, I am tired of his mewling falsehoods.

417 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:05:25pm

re: #411 Dark_Falcon

Glad you're still here. I wanted to show you this:

Is the Earth striking back?

The earth has no brain, no will, and no emotions.

Fuck that meme.

418 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:05:57pm

re: #414 Shiplord Kirel

Followup to earlier string:

Porn surfing rampant at U.S. science foundation

(Moonie Washington Times, salt to taste)

So do you think pron snurfing Gov employees is going to be the latest populist outrage?

419 compound idaho  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:06:03pm

re: #349 Aceofwhat?

see #332.

intensity of waste is inversely related with half-life. after 100,000 years, you can practically feed it to your dog.

i don't understand why that doesn't all but wrap up the question for you? it's a valid question, but this is a valid answer. isotopes don't just keep emitting particles for ever and ever...they sorta run out.

sorry if that sounds patronizing, but i'm having a little difficulty figuring out why you think we need to have a plan > 100,000 years...

If you compare the radioactivity of spent fuel to uranium ore, fuel becomes less radioactive than the ore after only hundreds of years. The hotter it is the shorter time in hangs around and the ore is simply scatter around Canada, US West and AU.

420 lostlakehiker  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:06:09pm

re: #85 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

One way or another, we wont be around for it.

Without any major technological advances, if we can just manage to keep civilization up and running for a few billion years, we can spare our planet that end. It's simple, really. Tweak the orbit of a massive asteroid so that it successively passes Jupiter in one close encounter designed to transfer momentum from Jupiter to it, then passes earth in a close encounter designed to transfer momentum from the asteroid to earth. Little by little, the earth is lofted into a higher orbit around the sun. As the sun expands, we retreat. Jupiter won't even notice.

The asteroid's orbit will have to be constantly tweaked because this setup is unstable. But it won't require anything magic to deliver the needed tweaking rockets to the asteroid, and we can already do the programming to work out just how much of a tweak, when, will deliver the desired close encounter.

If we ever dropped the ball and the asteroid hit instead of executing the desired near-miss, it would be a big hit though. Buh-bye.

Before implementing this plan, we'd need to think more than twice about safeguards and failsafes.

Just for starters, let's see if we can get our own civilization to last through the next few centuries without another big war or some sort of ecological calamity.

421 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:06:11pm

re: #395 Walter L. Newton

Would you please stop dropping in with you pithy little homilies. Let me have a little fun... I love to see the PC'ers spinning in the wind when their whole worlds are turned around.

And now we have the real reason for Walter's post.. Why he was concern trolling again... Go figure. I am so surprised.

Seriously Walter, you are a douchebag.

422 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:06:28pm

re: #417 Cato the Elder

The earth has no brain, no will, and no emotions.

Fuck that meme.

Just like the rest of the universe.

423 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:06:32pm

re: #418 Thanos

So do you think pron snurfing Gov employees is going to be the latest populist outrage?

Wow it sure looks like it.

424 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:07:10pm

re: #324 windsagio

Totally OT, but the room is getting hot and I want to brag anyways.

in a few weeks, I'm wasting some precious fuel and Taking WUB and some friends via our boat to our private beach.


View Larger Map

Excited!

You're just a shout away from my son in Van.

425 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:07:32pm

re: #406 Unakite

I'm also for Yucca Mountain. Need to separate the science from the politics, but won't happen.

Hmmm...far, far too many arguments are slain at the altar of ODS, but until the current administration alters their NONSCIENTIFIC position on this item, it's fair to lay it at their feet.

426 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:08:02pm

re: #414 Shiplord Kirel

Followup to earlier string:

Porn surfing rampant at U.S. science foundation

(Moonie Washington Times, salt to taste)

Hmmm it seems they need some form of payback for getting caught going to stripper bars :)

427 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:08:03pm

re: #408 Thanos

This is absolutely true because it sticks in your lungs. The chances for inhalation after it's in a fuel rod are so infinitesimal that you are in much greater danger statistically from your TV or from Radon in your basement, or your microwave, or that mercury in your home thermostat.

I got no TV, basement or thermostat... I do got some smokes, want one?

428 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:08:21pm

re: #418 Thanos

So do you think pron snurfing Gov employees is going to be the latest populist outrage?

Why the dodging of the word "porn"?

Porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn.

429 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:08:33pm

re: #421 LudwigVanQuixote

Man I so called that (twice!) upthread too.

Of course there is another interpretation...

That would be that being thoroughly bitchslapped with the facts, he's falling back to the "I was only joking!!!" defense.

430 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:08:33pm

re: #329 researchok

Shermer's credentials are impeccable.

Also, I play both, as needed to make my point.

I've only seen you play the man. It would be interesting to see you source arguments on the puck.

431 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:08:38pm

re: #421 LudwigVanQuixote

Sorry, I have to downding when someone gets called that. Calling names just makes things ugly.

432 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:08:50pm

re: #412 Walter L. Newton

You understand what I am saying.. right? You took that the right way, yes? Tongue in my cheek.

Ooooh, I took it like a man! ;)

433 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:09:01pm

re: #428 Cato the Elder

I actually wondered that too.

434 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:09:03pm

re: #416 LudwigVanQuixote

PIMF

See why your first two points are wrong and that they refute this one. Further, no at least for me, I am tired of his mewling falsehoods.

435 Unakite  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:09:05pm

re: #323 Walter L. Newton

No I didn't. The post stated what the method will contain it for 100,000 years, not that it would make it harmless for eternity.

Hmm, I missed the post but I would be comfortable with 100,000 years. Eternity is a little long....

436 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:09:16pm

re: #421 LudwigVanQuixote

And now we have the real reason for Walter's post.. Why he was concern trolling again... Go figure. I am so surprised.

Seriously Walter, you are a douchebag.

YAwn.

437 TampaKnight  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:09:37pm

Anyone see where Barney Frank blamed the GOP for SEC officials watching porn?

Brilliant!

438 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:09:53pm

re: #431 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, I have to downding when someone gets called that. Calling names just makes things ugly.

Fine, but enough of the concern troll crap. It got old a long time ago.

439 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:10:08pm

re: #431 Dark_Falcon

How about a "Lying sack of crap"?

440 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:10:18pm

re: #432 brookly red

Ooooh, I took it like a man! ;)

Ok... I'm not touching that with a ten...

441 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:10:25pm

re: #427 brookly red

I got no TV, basement or thermostat... I do got some smokes, want one?

No thanks! I've been smoke free since late January. I've gotten real fat since, and will be tackling that shortly.

442 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:10:35pm

re: #413 Cato the Elder

"Hommie"?

Is that the French spelling?

nope. copain is the french spelling.

443 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:10:50pm

re: #436 Walter L. Newton

YAwn.

By the way Walter there old boy, I am pleased to know you have your GF primed to send you mails about anything I might post and that might be juicy.

I assure you that My GF and I don't mention you at all.

444 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:11:07pm

re: #413 Cato the Elder

"Hommie"?

Is that the French spelling?

Haitian actually... now make a donation.

445 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:11:09pm

re: #426 LudwigVanQuixote

Hmmm it seems they need some form of payback for getting caught going to stripper bars :)

To be fair, that scandal did not hit the Washington Times at all. They are digging dirt on federal agencies, but that's a legitimate role for a newspaper. This won't create outrage, but it may get better standards set for the agencies in question.

446 TampaKnight  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:11:38pm

Did I just enter in the middle of a good ol' fashioned internet pissing match?

447 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:11:41pm

Early Friday night fighting! When are we going to get to the "I really love ya, man" part?

448 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:11:47pm

re: #437 TampaKnight

Anyone see where Barney Frank blamed the GOP for SEC officials watching porn?

Brilliant!

wrong site hommie...

449 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:11:48pm

re: #443 LudwigVanQuixote

By the way Walter there old boy, I am pleased to know you have your GF primed to send you mails about anything I might post and that might be juicy.

I assure you that My GF and I don't mention you at all.

Thank you.

450 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:11:59pm

re: #414 Shiplord Kirel

Followup to earlier string:

Porn surfing rampant at U.S. science foundation

(Moonie Washington Times, salt to taste)

Yeah, you think there's a reason he went after the NSF? Let' see, Jim McElhatton, writes for the Washington Slimes, and also writes for Newsmax. NSF of course is another new right wing target. They've also managed to add NASA to that list.

Men get bored at work so they sometimes surf for porn.

451 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:12:04pm

re: #418 Thanos

So do you think pron snurfing Gov employees is going to be the latest populist outrage?

Checking......

Sure 'nuff:

Freepers Respond to NSF porn story

"Bunch of baboons."

"This might help explain why so many of these “science” guys think that the planet is getting hotter. Maybe a long cold shower is the way to stop “global warming”."

"It’s the closest many of these nerds at the NSF have ever gotten to having sex."

452 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:12:04pm

re: #446 TampaKnight

Just the normal >

453 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:12:16pm

re: #407 Walter L. Newton

I think you figured me out, didn't you? You sly little puppy you.

Well at least you are proud of being a douchebag.

454 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:12:18pm

re: #443 LudwigVanQuixote

By the way Walter there old boy, I am pleased to know you have your GF primed to send you mails about anything I might post and that might be juicy.

I assure you that My GF and I don't mention you at all.

Don't make stupid-assed remarks and maybe people won't feel a need to bookmark them.

455 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:12:37pm

The testosterone waxes and then it wanes.

456 TampaKnight  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:12:51pm

Both of you need to make a stiff drink and put on some 80's hair metal- all will be solved.

457 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:13:04pm

re: #454 Walter L. Newton

That's kinda "S-word-y".

And I don't mean slutty.

458 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:13:20pm

re: #451 Shiplord Kirel

There you go. Science or scientists now means "no can has teh global warming socialists!" to the right wingers.

459 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:13:21pm

re: #454 Walter L. Newton

Don't make stupid-assed remarks and maybe people won't feel a need to bookmark them.

Try having sex with your GF rather than talking about me.

460 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:13:29pm

re: #453 LudwigVanQuixote

Well at least you are proud of being a douchebag.

That would hurt coming from someone who I respected.

461 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:13:39pm

TCM doing a program change and showing a Congressional debate!

Oh wait, it's the "Dawn of Man" part of _2001_ with the two primate tribes screaming at each other over the water hole.

//

462 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:13:42pm

re: #348 LudwigVanQuixote

NO really, I have little patience for ignorant fools pretending to be scientific and then saying stupid shit. It's a reflex.

I know a shit load full of scientists (mostly biologists and physicists), and just about to a man/woman they are the same. Intentional ignorance is not tolerated. At all. (I've been slapped more than once).

463 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:13:43pm

re: #455 prairiefire

The problem is people are constitutionally unable to back down.

It leads to, well, this.

464 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:13:47pm

re: #457 windsagio

That's kinda "S-word-y".

And I don't mean slutty.

Tough shit.

465 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:14:08pm

re: #459 LudwigVanQuixote

dude dude, don't let him draw you into that.

466 TampaKnight  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:14:41pm

Fight thread hijack:

Zakk Wylde's "Book of Shadows" is the most under rated album ever.

467 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:14:46pm

re: #464 Walter L. Newton

Dag. You have a tough day too?

Ohh I know! Maybe you and Cato pissed into each others beers!


(KINKY!)

468 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:15:02pm

re: #354 LudwigVanQuixote

In Soviet Union all people have wax!

My ears are full of wax.

469 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:15:04pm

re: #451 Shiplord Kirel

The very best gauge in all the world for wingnuts.

IT's FRIDAY! WE MAY FIGHT BUT ... it's a family affair....

Who's drinking what?

470 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:15:10pm

re: #466 TampaKnight

Everyone fighting is getting their needs met.

Feel free to not read it :P

471 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:15:43pm

re: #459 LudwigVanQuixote

Try having sex with your GF rather than talking about me.

personal foul, 15 yards, repeat first down.

472 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:15:52pm

I believe that nuclear is the way for the US to go and that the risks are justified. But didn't Obama shut down Yucca Mountain for good because there are actually very real and substantial concerns about the safety and security of the waste?
That being the case, isn't it a bit arrogant to be dismissive of an opposing viewpoint?

473 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:16:45pm

re: #418 Thanos

So do you think pron snurfing Gov employees is going to be the latest populist outrage?

ach, Lord forbid we ask Gov employees to WORK...

it's not the porn, it's the utter laziness. they should try mining sometime...

i don't sweat my ass off to pay taxes so some schlep can sit back in his recliner and fight the purple helmet warrior, play chat roulette, log on to ESPN and wax rhapsodic about how the Redskins are "gonna fukin rule dude" or any other bloated activity that isn't exactly what they get paid to do.

474 lostlakehiker  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:16:46pm

re: #140 brookly red

ooops! volcano... all bets are off.

Ordinary volcanic eruptions, even Mt. St. Helens, do not even show up on a plot of CO2 concentrations. Our own industrial emissions overshadow these. Yearly fluctuations due to vegetation growth and decay are bigger still, but they average out.

475 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:16:57pm

re: #472 Spare O'Lake

Presuming there is a problem there (Too lazy to look it up), are you saying that it's a reason to step away from nuclear power development?

476 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:17:17pm

re: #447 prairiefire

Early Friday night fighting! When are we going to get to the "I really love ya, man" part?

With Walter and Ludwig? I'd guess the 12th of Nevergonnahappen. Those two are pretty fierce in defense of what they believe and neither is inclined to give up ground.

477 freetoken  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:17:34pm

re: #458 Gus 802

Speaking of which, in the latest bloggingheads Matt Lewis and Bill Scher discuss the Manzi-Levin kerfuffle:

[Link: bloggingheads.tv...]

Lewis makes the point afterwards on how bad the books from the radio talk-show hosts can be.

478 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:17:37pm

re: #358 cliffster

Yeah. Quit talking, grocery store guy. Go bag some groceries or something. Sheesh

LVQ didn't slap Walter for working in a grocery store. He slapped him for not looking into the technology, despite being supplied with a number of links to information.

You get no points for your faux outrage at something that didn't happen.

479 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:17:43pm

ok. i'm buzzed on czech lager, watching wrestling and am feeling pretty damn good about the world having just spoken to my intercontinental GF..............

so, what've i missed?

480 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:18:06pm

re: #469 Thanos

I'm not drinking tonight, I have a sinus headache. : (
I did pick up the assorted 24 pack of Mexican beers at Costco for when I do.

481 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:18:07pm

re: #476 Dark_Falcon

Except, let me repeat,

In this case Walter is utterly wrong.

It doesn't make you less of a man to back down and admit your mistake.

482 TampaKnight  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:18:12pm

re: #479 wozzablog

ok. i'm buzzed on czech lager, watching wrestling and am feeling pretty damn good about the world having just spoken to my intercontinental GF...

so, what've i missed?

Czech lager? What's the name....any good?

483 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:18:45pm

re: #479 wozzablog

Walter and Cato concern-trolling the FUCK out of nuclear power.

484 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:19:18pm

re: #458 Gus 802

There you go. Science or scientists now means "no can has teh global warming socialists!" to the right wingers.

I was a little miffed that one freepazoid stole my usual epithet of "baboon" while another had the projective temerity to claim that porn is the closest "these science nerds" ever get to having sex.
It's been my enthusiastically pursued observation that male scientists actually do pretty well with the ladies, while these marmoset dicked Freepers couldn't get laid in a monkey whorehouse if they owned a banana plantation.

485 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:19:31pm

re: #473 Aceofwhat?

ach, Lord forbid we ask Gov employees to WORK...

it's not the porn, it's the utter laziness. they should try mining sometime...

i don't sweat my ass off to pay taxes so some schlep can sit back in his recliner and fight the purple helmet warrior, play chat roulette, log on to ESPN and wax rhapsodic about how the Redskins are "gonna fukin rule dude" or any other bloated activity that isn't exactly what they get paid to do.

Did you just channel your Pops?

486 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:19:34pm

re: #477 freetoken

Speaking of which, in the latest bloggingheads Matt Lewis and Bill Scher discuss the Manzi-Levin kerfuffle:

[Link: bloggingheads.tv...]

Lewis makes the point afterwards on how bad the books from the radio talk-show hosts can be.

Nice, thanks. I really like Bill Scher. He and Matt Lewis do one of the best video blogs over there.

487 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:19:45pm

re: #366 LudwigVanQuixote

Talk to me when you can calculate a half life.

Um, doesn't that take calculus?

488 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:20:08pm

all this hostility...
windsgio, I am feeling neglected... wass up with that?

489 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:20:14pm

re: #487 b_sharp

I don't think it does on the even numbers, but that might be cheating >>

490 TampaKnight  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:20:22pm

re: #488 brookly red

all this hostility...
windsgio, I am feeling neglected... wass up with that?

Oh ya? FUCK YOU! :)

491 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:20:24pm

re: #447 prairiefire

Early Friday night fighting! When are we going to get to the "I really love ya, man" part?

2 more beers and ~ 90 minutes...i'll be hugging every guy in sight.

492 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:20:39pm

re: #482 TampaKnight

Budwesier/Budvar. It's not premium, its not cheap piss.

re: #483 windsagio

ah.

493 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:20:45pm

re: #467 windsagio

Dag. You have a tough day too?

Ohh I know! Maybe you and Cato pissed into each others beers!

(KINKY!)

Beards.

494 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:20:46pm

re: #488 brookly red

You're not doing anything wrong right now :P

Certain other people on the other hand, are being awful.

495 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:21:01pm

re: #484 Shiplord Kirel

I was a little miffed that one freepazoid stole my usual epithet of "baboon" while another had the projective temerity to claim that porn is the closest "these science nerds" ever get to having sex.
It's been my enthusiastically pursued observation that male scientists actually do pretty well with the ladies, while these marmoset dicked Freepers couldn't get laid in a monkey whorehouse if they owned a banana plantation.

Yeah, it's a dumb stereotype. If anything I doubt that Freeper are getting any.

Last night we had a Freeper troll. What a total dork. He was also a birther. Blocked within a day.

496 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:21:14pm

re: #480 prairiefire

I'm not drinking tonight, I have a sinus headache. : (
I did pick up the assorted 24 pack of Mexican beers at Costco for when I do.

bummer, hope it gets better.

497 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:21:16pm

re: #491 Aceofwhat?

{hug}

498 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:21:30pm

re: #493 Cato the Elder

See, that was funny.

499 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:21:39pm

re: #481 windsagio

Except, let me repeat,

In this case Walter is utterly wrong.

It doesn't make you less of a man to back down and admit your mistake.

I guess I was wrong. It appears that we have nothing to worry about when it comes to nuclear energy production. I'm not sure how a bunch of leftist "greenies" have managed to shanghai the whole nuclear energy debate for over 30 years and even fool a lot of the scientist and politicians.

But now it seems that clearer heads have prevailed and a new era is about to open up for the world.

I'm sorry, I read those links, I'm still concerned that there are some caveats, but all in all... let's go nuclear.

500 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:21:40pm

re: #490 TampaKnight

Oh ya? FUCK YOU! :)

you just don't say it like windy does...

501 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:22:08pm

re: #499 Walter L. Newton

See? Was that so hard?

502 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:22:10pm

re: #493 Cato the Elder

Beards.

You know I don't have a beard.

503 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:22:31pm

re: #472 Spare O'Lake

But didn't Obama shut down Yucca Mountain for good because there are actually very real and substantial concerns about the safety and security of the waste?

Nope.

Each party has its own little bubbles in which science dare not intrude. The GOP's is definitely bigger right now, but that doesn't excuse this little bit of hypocritical work...

504 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:22:34pm

re: #483 windsagio

Walter and Cato concern-trolling the FUCK out of nuclear power.

Bite me, you windsock.

505 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:22:37pm

Seattle cartoonist launches "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day"

After Comedy Central cut a portion of a South Park episode following a death threat from a radical Muslim group, Seattle cartoonist Molly Norris wanted to counter the fear. She has declared May 20th "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day."

[Snip]

506 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:22:37pm

re: #500 brookly red

I don't think I've ever said that to anyone in my life, on this blog or off it.

/random weird factoid about Windy!

507 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:23:02pm

re: #504 Cato the Elder

"Where"?

508 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:23:04pm

re: #370 Walter L. Newton

I can't. I want to eliminate all nuclear from this planet, and that includes weapons.

Outside of weapons, that can't be done. The Earth's core is full of the stuff. The ground you walk on contains the stuff. Radioactivity is ubiquitous in our lives. The best we can do is harness it safely and take sensible precautions. At the very least, we need it for medicine.

509 lostlakehiker  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:23:56pm

re: #472 Spare O'Lake

I believe that nuclear is the way for the US to go and that the risks are justified. But didn't Obama shut down Yucca Mountain for good because there are actually very real and substantial concerns about the safety and security of the waste?
That being the case, isn't it a bit arrogant to be dismissive of an opposing viewpoint?

No. There are no technical concerns with merit. Sen. Reid just wanted it shut down b/c greenpeace types get the vapors at the thought of radioactive waste --- even when there's miles of shielding.

510 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:23:59pm

If you want me to stay

511 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:24:42pm

re: #510 Thanos

If you want me to stay


[Video]

ok screwed that up... most people don't like Chambers bros...

512 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:24:49pm

re: #505 Slumbering Behemoth

Seattle cartoonist launches "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day"

OK, that gives me an excuse to repost my ditty from yesterday.

This Poem Does Not Mock Mohammed

Well, Jesus never married.
He must have been a loon.
And Buddha, after finding peace,
Blew up like a balloon.
Zoroaster's just plain weird.
His followers get et by birds.
Mohammed, though, Mohammed:
[censored] [deleted] turds.

Copyright © 2010 Cato the Elder

513 cliffster  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:25:05pm

re: #480 prairiefire

I'm not drinking tonight, I have a sinus headache. : (
I did pick up the assorted 24 pack of Mexican beers at Costco for when I do.

costco upding

514 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:25:15pm

re: #416 LudwigVanQuixote

See why your first two points are wrong and that refuse this one. Further, no at least for me, I am tired of his mewling falsehoods.

Plus..Basic safety issues for a reactor is cooling and a failure to keep the core under control...Cause we are talking real heat here...Ask the Russians..They fucked that up bad..
But a general issue and normal concern is leaks from the primary coil...A leak at the primary is deadly.. But this is an engineering issue...You would think well heck just make those coils are so thick they will never spring a leak..Easy right? But to transfer heat to the secondary coils with thick copper pipes is almost impossible and inefficient.. So you have coils that are thin enough to transfer heat to the secondaries but not spring a leak...
That is why the medium is pure water.. Not one mineral in the water to cause a hot spot..Pure pure water..Expensive stuff
Why are the private Nuclear Contractors never trusted but the Navy sails Nuclear every day? And not one soul on earth even worries about it? Funny huh? Quality control...We constantly shut down the reactors and eddy the tubes.. Cost too much for the greedy Corporations..Just like fucking coal mines of the future..They should care about safety first..Profits second...Plus in the Navy I only got 350 micro Curries squared per quarter if I recall and in the private industry..They will smoke your ass with zoomies..If America wants Safety..We can do Safety in the Nuclear Energy field....Safety first..Profits second...Or hell hire the fucking French if we can't be global leaders and scientists..jeez...

515 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:25:15pm

re: #506 windsagio

Further weird factoid. I never swore at all in any way until I was in my thirties, and didn't really get going until the last year.

516 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:25:19pm

re: #501 windsagio

See? Was that so hard?

No... it actually felt good. You see, this all goes way back to the early 70's, when I was kidnapped by a family of Greenpeace activists and forced to live on the Greenpeace boat for 5 years off the coast of Australia. Do you know how fucking mind numbing that was? Can you imagine learning how to sing Kumbaya in 28 different languages? How about being forced to eat seaweed 3 times a day. And we kept pissing off those Japanese sailors by ramming their boats. Scared the shit out of me.

Windy, ya got to give me a little slack. Ok?

517 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:26:05pm

re: #506 windsagio

I don't think I've ever said that to anyone in my life, on this blog or off it.

/random weird factoid about Windy!

I loves you cause your beautiful, but I hates your liberal ways..........

518 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:26:08pm

re: #485 prairiefire

Did you just channel your Pops?

Heh. No, actually, he's more sanguine on that subject. His take is that a person with no work ethic is usually a sad person inside, so they're already in a bad place.

519 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:26:14pm

re: #380 Cato the Elder

Only thing is, you PC douche, ten years ago you would have agreed.

Ten years ago, the understanding of AGW was less, the necessity of nuke seemed less and the technology was, well, 10 years less advanced. Being able to change your mind due to new information is a good thing.

520 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:26:26pm

re: #516 Walter L. Newton

Oh you poor dear.


Yeah, I'll let you be.

521 compound idaho  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:26:35pm

re: #509 lostlakehiker

No. There are no technical concerns with merit. Sen. Reid just wanted it shut down b/c greenpeace types get the vapors at the thought of radioactive waste --- even when there's miles of shielding.

The utilities and rate payers paid for the development of Yucca Mtn. Not tax $. Rate payers should demand their money back. But good luck with that.

522 Unakite  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:26:37pm

re: #411 Dark_Falcon

Glad you're still here. I wanted to show you this:

Is the Earth striking back?

Uhmm, I just skimmed it quickly, but it looks like he's blaming the recent volcanic eruption on U.S. industry.

523 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:26:39pm

re: #516 Walter L. Newton

(PS: Freakin' Brilliant!)

524 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:27:31pm

re: #523 windsagio

(PS: Freakin' Brilliant!)

:)

525 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:27:33pm

re: #388 Walter L. Newton

Methinks this conversation about nuclear would have been very different for some of these people 10 years ago.

So what?

526 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:27:34pm

re: #517 brookly red

IF we were both Gay, the fact that I'm apparently a great lay would also be relevant to this discussion.

527 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:27:34pm

re: #497 wozzablog

{hug}

right back atcha!

528 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:27:53pm

re: #516 Walter L. Newton

No... it actually felt good. You see, this all goes way back to the early 70's, when I was kidnapped by a family of Greenpeace activists and forced to live on the Greenpeace boat for 5 years off the coast of Australia. Do you know how fucking mind numbing that was? Can you imagine learning how to sing Kumbaya in 28 different languages? How about being forced to eat seaweed 3 times a day. And we kept pissing off those Japanese sailors by ramming their boats. Scared the shit out of me.

Windy, ya got to give me a little slack. Ok?

a real man would have killed himself...

529 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:28:42pm

re: #509 lostlakehiker

No. There are no technical concerns with merit. Sen. Reid just wanted it shut down b/c greenpeace types get the vapors at the thought of radioactive waste --- even when there's miles of shielding.

THANK you.

530 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:28:44pm

re: #526 windsagio

IF we were both Gay, the fact that I'm apparently a great lay would also be relevant to this discussion.

let's save that for the next election...

531 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:28:56pm

re: #395 Walter L. Newton

Would you please stop dropping in with you pithy little homilies. Let me have a little fun... I love to see the PC'ers spinning in the wind when their whole worlds are turned around.

You'll let us know when you actually accomplish that won't you?

532 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:29:34pm

re: #530 brookly red

If you knew the presidential election was down to one vote, and you could have sex with someone who was totally gross and change the result, would you do it?

533 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:29:35pm

re: #525 b_sharp

So what?

Ya know... you need to go back up thread and pay attention to some of my posts, kinda see the way they segued into a whole coherent slop of sarcasm... 'cause you're still grasping at straws and missing my point.

534 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:29:41pm

re: #530 brookly red

let's save that for the next erection...


fify

535 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:30:02pm

re: #526 windsagio

IF we were both Gay, the fact that I'm apparently a great lay would also be relevant to this discussion.

dude, it's teh intertoob. we're all rock stars in the sack and PhD's out of it/

536 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:30:10pm

re: #532 windsagio

If you knew the presidential election was down to one vote, and you could have sex with someone who was totally gross and change the result, would you do it?

bend over...

537 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:30:19pm

re: #535 Aceofwhat?

Quiet you!

538 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:30:34pm

re: #536 brookly red

Lol, hey now!

539 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:31:01pm

re: #533 Walter L. Newton

PS: Still kinda irked that you denied that you were doing htat to me upthread, with a straight face.

I suppose you had to tho >

540 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:31:26pm

re: #526 windsagio

IF we were both Gay, the fact that I'm apparently a great lay would also be relevant to this discussion.

You could both choose to be gay. I'd pay not to watch.

541 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:31:27pm

re: #401 Walter L. Newton

Well that's cool.

You accept the dangers of other sources, why do you not give nuke the same consideration?

542 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:31:59pm

re: #540 Cato the Elder

Dude, why not?

It'd be sooooOOOOooo Hot!

543 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:32:00pm

Something completely different.. Gogol Bordello

544 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:32:05pm

re: #535 Aceofwhat?

dude, it's teh intertoob. we're all rock stars in the sack and PhD's out of it/

i'm a PHD in chandelier swinging hot stuff action type stuff..................

545 Unakite  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:32:10pm

Heh, almost caught up, now it's dinner time. "Go Nukes!"

546 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:32:28pm

More Sly!

I posted this recently, but with Thanos putting up more, I can't help doing this one again.

547 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:32:29pm

re: #543 Thanos

infinite updings.

548 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:32:40pm

re: #539 windsagio

PS: Still kinda irked that you denied that you were doing htat to me upthread, with a straight face.

I suppose you had to tho >

You love it... and yo know it... getting fucked is every mans desire... no matter which way.

549 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:32:50pm

re: #541 b_sharp

You accept the dangers of other sources, why do you not give nuke the same consideration?

The NIMBYs will stop it for him, that's why.

550 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:33:05pm

re: #544 wozzablog

i'm a PHD in chandelier swinging hot stuff action type stuff...

you too? what are the odds...

551 lostlakehiker  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:33:16pm

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

No... the topic is nuclear, isn't it?

Nuclear is safer than coal. We lose more to radiation exposure in the course of coal mining [there can be radon in the air] than we do from radiation connected with the whole nuclear cycle.

552 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:33:52pm

re: #543 Thanos

I posted this last night, but am redoing it for pure awesome:

Skinny Puppy's Rivers, with the actual clips spliced in

One of the best bands of the decades, and the best use of sampling ever!

553 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:33:55pm

re: #550 Aceofwhat?

you too? what are the odds...

depends which exchange you wanna go with.......

554 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:34:14pm

re: #551 lostlakehiker

Nuclear is safer than coal. We lose more to radiation exposure in the course of coal mining [there can be radon in the air] than we do from radiation connected with the whole nuclear cycle.

OMG! it's Godlilla!

555 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:35:08pm

re: #430 b_sharp

I've only seen you play the man. It would be interesting to see you source arguments on the puck.

See these links. There are more of course, but what is disturbing is the predictability of the opposition to actually getting the power from point A to point B. It really has become almost the same knee jerk reaction against nuclear.

I'm for all three, with nuclear as the anchor. Right now, we can talk green power all we want but if we can't move it, we're spinning our wheels.

Californian Environmentalist Senator Fights Solar, Wind Projects

Environmentalists Sue Over Energy Transmission Across Federal Lands

556 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:35:33pm

re: #550 Aceofwhat?

you too? what are the odds...

I'm a Ph.D. in a satyr suit swinging from the chandeliers and lighting your pipes, cigars, and other CO2-producing combustibles whilst singing "La Marseillaise" and prompting the butlers to come in and serve the next course.

All whilst diddling Summer Seale crossways.

557 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:35:50pm

re: #552 windsagio

Also, in callback, I just have to:

Cato, I hear that with Lucifer's aid we might look forward to a more succulent occasion.

558 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:36:20pm

re: #553 wozzablog

depends which exchange you wanna go with...

same odds as the US beating the UK in the world cup?

559 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:36:23pm

I feel you guys are doubting my skills in the sack. Am I gonna have to go on a cross-country trip to prove it?!

560 webevintage  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:36:34pm

Well what do you know one of the Democratic candidates running against Blanche Lincoln in the Senate primary here in Arkansas just said:

"I think the man made global warming is a hoax perpetrated on a gullible public ."

and NO ONE laughed at him!
Jebus.

Luckily someone just asked him if he is really a Democrat....

561 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:36:56pm

re: #552 windsagio

I posted this last night, but am redoing it for pure awesome:

Skinny Puppy's Rivers, with the actual clips spliced in

[Video]

One of the best bands of the decades, and the best use of sampling ever!

YES FUCK YES


"for it would be extremely difficult for you to get away from here...unless of course you had wings..."

"...like a bat."

562 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:37:47pm

re: #560 webevintage

Well what do you know one of the Democratic candidates running against Blanche Lincoln in the Senate primary here in Arkansas just said:

"I think the man made global warming is a hoax perpetrated on a gullible public ."

and NO ONE laughed at him!
Jebus.

Luckily someone just asked him if he is really a Democrat...

haha maybe he's a Democrat the way Lyndon Larouche is a democrat

563 brookly red  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:38:14pm

I can't believe we are almost at 600 comments & no ...

Blagojevich!

gotta go for beer now...

564 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:38:47pm

re: #563 brookly red

I thought you were gonna say no "AYERS" or "ACORN" or, even more amazingly "NO ROBERT BYRD"!

565 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:39:01pm

re: #560 webevintage

Well what do you know one of the Democratic candidates running against Blanche Lincoln in the Senate primary here in Arkansas just said:

"I think the man made global warming is a hoax perpetrated on a gullible public ."

and NO ONE laughed at him!
Jebus.

Luckily someone just asked him if he is really a Democrat...

Off with his head, the future-fucker!

566 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:39:07pm

re: #552 windsagio

I posted this last night, but am redoing it for pure awesome:

Skinny Puppy's Rivers, with the actual clips spliced in


[Video]

One of the best bands of the decades, and the best use of sampling ever!

Major fail... bringing up that band... the director in Denver who directed the world premier of my "1984" stage script, used a Skinny Puppy song as the opening underscore at the top of the show... some blubbering speaking in tongues sounding heavy metal song... the singer sounded like he was vomiting, not singing.

Even though the show received decent reviews in the local papers, and a very good review in Variety Magazine, I refuse to even watch the DVD of the show because of that damn song.

The director and I disagreed about most of the underscoring he picked for that show.

567 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:39:16pm

re: #556 Cato the Elder

I'm a Ph.D. in a satyr suit swinging from the chandeliers and lighting your pipes, cigars, and other CO2-producing combustibles whilst singing "La Marseillaise" and prompting the butlers to come in and serve the next course.

All whilst diddling Summer Seale crossways.

You have the butlers trained to respond to La Marseillaise? I'm partying at your château...

568 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:39:16pm

re: #556 Cato the Elder

I have a Masters in Disasters

569 webevintage  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:40:07pm

re: #562 WindUpBird

haha maybe he's a Democrat the way Lyndon Larouche is a democrat

Someone did just ask him what kind of Democrat he was.

570 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:40:09pm

re: #559 windsagio

I feel you guys are doubting my skills in the sack. Am I gonna have to go on a cross-country trip to prove it?!

i fear you may receive a poor grade from me for reasons unrelated to your skill level;)

571 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:40:10pm

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

I'm afraid we can no longer be friends :(


/not really, but damn. Any memory what song?

572 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:40:34pm

re: #559 windsagio

I feel you guys are doubting my skills in the sack. Am I gonna have to go on a cross-country trip to prove it?!

The Windy Tour.

573 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:40:34pm

re: #571 windsagio

wait, if this is another story I'll feel dumb >>

574 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:41:00pm

re: #570 Aceofwhat?

Just lend me your wife/girlfriend.

575 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:42:01pm

re: #484 Shiplord Kirel

I was a little miffed that one freepazoid stole my usual epithet of "baboon" while another had the projective temerity to claim that porn is the closest "these science nerds" ever get to having sex.
It's been my enthusiastically pursued observation that male scientists actually do pretty well with the ladies, while these marmoset dicked Freepers couldn't get laid in a monkey whorehouse if they owned a banana plantation.

Freepers are all 40 somethings sitting in their momma's basement eating Cheetos, drinking Coke and pretending to be tough.

576 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:42:13pm

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

Major fail... bringing up that band... the director in Denver who directed the world premier of my "1984" stage script, used a Skinny Puppy song as the opening underscore at the top of the show... some blubbering speaking in tongues sounding heavy metal song... the singer sounded like he was vomiting, not singing.

Even though the show received decent reviews in the local papers, and a very good review in Variety Magazine, I refuse to even watch the DVD of the show because of that damn song.

The director and I disagreed about most of the underscoring he picked for that show.

hahah that's Skinny Puppy, all right! it's experimental industrial music, personally, I love it but it sure isn't for everyone. :D

Later on, they did actually introduce clean vocals and dialed down the noise and mayhem a bit:

Though by normal standards, it's still intensely weird and jarring music

577 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:42:15pm

re: #475 windsagio

Presuming there is a problem there (Too lazy to look it up), are you saying that it's a reason to step away from nuclear power development?

I don't think so, but if one were extremely concerned about domestic terrorism and nuclear security issues, and/or integrity of the storage facilities, one might be forgiven for opting against the risks.
It is not a simple issue for real libs.

578 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:42:21pm

re: #571 windsagio

I'm afraid we can no longer be friends :(

/not really, but damn. Any memory what song?

I don't even know the name of it, nor did I ask the director. Up tempo, driving beat... the singer blubbers some long verse, like I said, sound more like he was vomiting in tongues... like a vocalize, more than lyrics... maybe I can find it on YouTube.

579 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:42:36pm

It occurs to me that reading this thread here at LGF is not an entirely different experience than going to the little Irish pub down the street and watching the drunks beat the piss out of each other. The difference is that here the words are bigger and I can't get anything on me.

580 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:42:42pm

re: #574 windsagio

Just lend me your wife/girlfriend.

huh? i thought you didn't roll like that?

581 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:43:14pm

re: #580 Aceofwhat?

Oh totally, WUB's the gay one.

582 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:43:20pm

re: #558 Aceofwhat?

same odds as the US beating the UK in the world cup?

they are playing England, and i'm not an england fan :-p

bah.

Scotland the brave. curse them for not qualifying

583 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:43:20pm

re: #573 windsagio

wait, if this is another story I'll feel dumb >>

No this is true... (you know about the show)...

[Link: newton.acrossthebow.com...]

I'll try to find the song if it's on the internet.

584 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:43:36pm

re: #575 b_sharp

Freepers are all 40 somethings sitting in their momma's basement eating Cheetos, drinking Coke and pretending to be tough.

That's what they say about Lizards.

It's all good.

585 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:43:41pm

re: #577 Spare O'Lake

I don't think so, but if one were extremely concerned about domestic terrorism and nuclear security issues, and/or integrity of the storage facilities, one might be forgiven for opting against the risks.
It is not a simple issue for real libs.

Bullshit...

586 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:43:45pm

re: #578 Walter L. Newton

haha don't stress it.

WOnder what you think of 'amnesia', which WUBby posted above.

587 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:44:18pm

re: #576 WindUpBird

That's not the song... I'll look around here...

588 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:44:20pm

re: #528 brookly red

a real man would have killed himself and cannibalized his captors...

FTFY

589 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:45:06pm

re: #578 Walter L. Newton

I don't even know the name of it, nor did I ask the director. Up tempo, driving beat... the singer blubbers some long verse, like I said, sound more like he was vomiting in tongues... like a vocalize, more than lyrics... maybe I can find it on YouTube.

Driving beat + long verses = probably the song Assimilate

590 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:45:35pm

re: #581 windsagio

Oh totally, WUB's the gay one.

eh. doesn't really matter anyhoo...you can both have a big hug but i don't make out!

591 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:45:46pm

re: #589 WindUpBird

Driving beat + long verses = probably the song Assimilate

ass + smile + late = assimilate

592 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:46:12pm

re: #591 Cato the Elder

ass + smile + late = assimilate

There is no "win" in heroin!

593 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:46:54pm

re: #592 WindUpBird

There is no "win" in heroin!

But there is morph in morphium.

594 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:47:25pm

The streaming link for LCD Soundsystem's last album is up at NPR now, I'm giving it a second listen before I buy

[Link: www.npr.org...]

595 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:47:33pm

okies.

night everyone.

have to be up in a few hours to open up the sports club for the summer.

596 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:47:35pm

For walter, if its familiar:

Assimilate

597 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:47:48pm

re: #576 WindUpBird

hahah that's Skinny Puppy, all right! it's experimental industrial music, personally, I love it but it sure isn't for everyone. :D

Later on, they did actually introduce clean vocals and dialed down the noise and mayhem a bit:


[Video]Though by normal standards, it's still intensely weird and jarring music

Everything after Last Rights is abominable, and not to be mentioned. A pox upon you!


/

598 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:47:51pm

re: #596 windsagio

Gotta love the insane-ass intro on that version too.

599 Linden Arden  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:48:32pm

Baltimore mother starves 16-month old child to death for not praying - released with orders for continued Bible study.

Link to SLC Tribune

600 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:48:33pm

re: #597 negativ

I'd argue with you, but WUB is more qualified >>

601 Red Pencil  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:48:35pm

re: #508 b_sharp

Outside of weapons, that can't be done.

And inside of weapons it's too dark to read.

602 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:48:44pm

re: #559 windsagio

I feel you guys are doubting my skills in the sack. Am I gonna have to go on a cross-country trip to prove it?!

Don't forget the Yogurt....

/just saying...

603 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:48:49pm

re: #499 Walter L. Newton

I guess I was wrong. It appears that we have nothing to worry about when it comes to nuclear energy production. I'm not sure how a bunch of leftist "greenies" have managed to shanghai the whole nuclear energy debate for over 30 years and even fool a lot of the scientist and politicians.

But now it seems that clearer heads have prevailed and a new era is about to open up for the world.

I'm sorry, I read those links, I'm still concerned that there are some caveats, but all in all... let's go nuclear.

You'll never grab logic that way, it'll always be just out of your reach.

Nobody said there is nothing to be worried about. What we said is the risk is acceptable with newer technology, nowhere near as high as you seem to think it is, and is a better risk than going without it.

Straw man arguments are fun to build and to burn, but they they do nothing beyond obscuring the argument and smelling up the place.

604 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:49:25pm

re: #551 lostlakehiker

Nuclear is safer than coal. We lose more to radiation exposure in the course of coal mining [there can be radon in the air] than we do from radiation connected with the whole nuclear cycle.

The Nuclear field is very complex..Maybe we should not try to make it so simple..
There is radiation issues and contamination issues..
For instance..True Story..Around 1994 the Navy sent me to disassemble a 100 year old building on a shipyard that had low level Alfa Radiation in the floor soil of a wood building...Alfa wave can't pass through a piece of paper...
I was pissed off..Why are you guys sending me to do this job? In our briefing we learned.. If you even breath one dust particle contaminated with an Alfa particle you WILL die from Cancer.. It was a 3 month air fed Nuclear job and the Navy only has so many people Qualed in Nuclear Air-fed..I must have pissed somebody off cause I sweat for 3 months in air feds shoveling fricking dirt into special buckets enclosed in to a huge enclosure...A harmless particle that can't even pass through paper can bring you a gruesome lung cancer death

605 webevintage  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:49:26pm

I just realized I have been missing the comic gold that is part of "local" debates. This DC Morrison guy is just cracking us up, I know we (my family) should take this a bit seriously, but he is nutty with a nut on top.

606 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:49:38pm

re: #589 WindUpBird

Driving beat + long verses = probably the song Assimilate

Yep... just found it and came back here and saw you post.

This was the underscore at the top of the show, which was just before the opening "Two Minute Hate."

I guess the director thought "Assimilate" was a good title for opening a show like "1984." Problem in my mind is, nobody fucking new what the song was, so the irony is missed.

607 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:51:02pm

re: #585 Aceofwhat?

Bullshit...

Actually it was nucular waste.

608 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:51:02pm

re: #606 Walter L. Newton

A mystery solved is always awesome.

Its funny too, 'cuz thats one of my top 5 SP songs.

Altho, as I think about it, it'd probably be one of yours too, the rest are a lot less... Accessable.

609 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:51:12pm

re: #596 windsagio

For walter, if its familiar:

Assimilate


[Video]

Yes.. without that intro... I still have no idea what he is saying.

610 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:51:18pm

re: #602 Thanos

You do post some interesting linkage...

611 cliffster  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:51:59pm

I'm finally watching the movie Bolt. This is cracking me up.

612 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:52:19pm

re: #609 Walter L. Newton


oil remove shred and tear radiation vapor
it's the fear so unclear man in motion going nowhere
in our homes stuck in the face spread the word to the populace
yellow journal yellow journal set the pace feel the rage
manifestations of a sort so insidious off the point
simple solution never confusion sport a gun kill a cop
crazy world of weary thought so receive me had enough
lock me up lock me up
rot and assimilate so hot to annihilate
deviation tonic mess prolonged existence innocence
is he who speaks isn't weak wheelchair virtue so to speak
bubonic plague the truth of aids immunity avoid decay
in the trench of pestilence the bible screams announce your faith
mutterings of death to bring suffocate a newborn thing
degradation of an age venereal it's all sensation
protect design the moral plan infallible as propaganda
completely black with no steps back
hot to assimilate we'll rot or annihilate
agony profusely stains the inner thinking of the brain
accusations clanking chains experiments with the groans of pain
all prefer no one blames the terror in an animal's screams
in cages our future - the answers insane

I live to serve. Can't be 100% sure that they're right tho' >>

613 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:52:28pm

re: #589 WindUpBird

Driving beat + long verses = probably the song Assimilate

614 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:53:36pm

re: #607 Spare O'Lake

Actually it was nucular waste.

Oh, so safer than bullshit. Carry on, then!

615 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:54:00pm

re: #576 WindUpBird

hahah that's Skinny Puppy, all right! it's experimental industrial music, personally, I love it but it sure isn't for everyone. :D

Had a female friend once who liked Skinny Puppy. Seriously weird cross between goth & industrial but a good gal to go dancing with on a Saturday night when dancing was all either of us really wanted.

I was always much more of an old punk (Clash, etc. ) than industrial type but it could be fun enough especially with enough cold brew afterwards... ;)

William

616 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:55:03pm

re: #559 windsagio

I feel you guys are doubting my skills in the sack. Am I gonna have to go on a cross-country trip to prove it?!

Compared to my wife? I dunno. She's pretty damn good.

617 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:55:04pm

re: #610 Floral Giraffe

You do post some interesting linkage...

re: #610 Floral Giraffe

You do post some interesting linkage...

Well it's a quantity not quality thing... post enough you are bound to hit some interesting things like this:

Why do you smear yogurt all over the woman's genitalia during this ritual?
Clara-Josefa-Menendez has always been frigid and non-orgasmic, and because of this her vagina never gets wet. However, as I am a regular clergy who has taken a vow of celibacy and am therefore an unmarried virgin, I wasn't aware that you could buy lubricants to use in such circumstances. That's why I turned to yogurt.

618 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:55:50pm

re: #612 windsagio

I live to serve. Can't be 100% sure that they're right tho' >>

i've definitely seen better lyrics...

619 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:56:15pm

re: #612 windsagio

I live to serve. Can't be 100% sure that they're right tho' >>

Now it makes more sense... (beat)... (beat)... NOT!

620 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:56:40pm

re: #618 Aceofwhat?

re: #619 Walter L. Newton

I'll be the first to say, "Dude had issues"

621 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:57:03pm

re: #617 Thanos

Ok that's fucking weird. Literally.

622 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:58:13pm

re: #395 Walter L. Newton

Would you please stop dropping in with you pithy little homilies. Let me have a little fun... I love to see the PC'ers spinning in the wind when their whole worlds are turned around.

I didn't realize that you had the ability to read minds as well as your "rapier" like wit.

I have always, and I mean always, supported nuclear power. Comes from being a hughe fan of Sci-Fi and all the "atomic powered" rockets and shit from the 60's. As I grew up and learned more I still supported it, I always realized that the enviromental fears were being blown way out of proportion.

I havn't had to change my views at all, I am however pleased that as more people have been forced into actually looking at the issue rationally they have come over to my side of the argument. ;)

623 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:58:19pm

re: #621 Fozzie Bear

Ok that's fucking weird. Literally.

Tell me about it.

I'm headed upthread to listen to the song Charles posted.

624 b_sharp  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:58:59pm

re: #599 Linden Arden

Baltimore mother starves 16-month old child to death for not praying - released with orders for continued Bible study.

Link to SLC Tribune

How many times can you say 'sick fuck'.

625 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:59:27pm

re: #621 Fozzie Bear

Ok that's fucking weird. Literally.

Yea... well how would you like it if a director put that song at the top of your classically styled stage script of "1984?" I told him I didn't want anything dated or contemporary. I wanted low key, not techno sounding. I wanted true to the feel of the book, not some punk thing. Thank goodness he only did that at the top of the show and not all the way through it.

626 Cato the Elder  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 5:59:53pm

Don't let it get you down, it's only castles burning.

627 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:00:17pm

re: #622 ausador

I didn't realize that you had the ability to read minds as well as your "rapier" like wit.

I have always, and I mean always, supported nuclear power. Comes from being a hughe fan of Sci-Fi and all the "atomic powered" rockets and shit from the 60's. As I grew up and learned more I still supported it, I always realized that the enviromental fears were being blown way out of proportion.

I havn't had to change my views at all, I am however pleased that as more people have been forced into actually looking at the issue rationally they have come over to my side of the argument. ;)

Well you go Rocket Man :) LOL. Silly little snit.

628 Linden Arden  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:02:09pm

re: #626 Cato the Elder

Don't let it get you down, it's only castles burning.

Young?

629 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:03:03pm

re: #626 Cato the Elder

Don't let it get you down, it's only castles burning.

630 Digital Display  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:04:00pm

The draft is getting boring..You guys want to hear a story about Nuclear Reactors? Cause I've got funny stories..My first time..A virgin..I really got punked by code 105..They played a real mean joke on me..Bastards..*wink*

631 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:04:27pm

re: #627 Walter L. Newton

Well you go Rocket Man :) LOL. Silly little snit.

You believe that anything you have said here tonight actually deserved a more serious reply?

/that is a fucking laugh.

632 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:06:04pm

re: #555 researchok

The article regarding Feinstein is misleading. The legislation she is proposing in no shape or form is intended to block or fight solar and wind projects on public land. If anything it provides mechanism to streamline the process on both public and private land:

Title II: Renewable Energy Development

Requires the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) to establish offices specifically focused on renewable energy development in each state with significant wind and solar resources on public land.

Helps cut through the backlog of pending renewable development applications with a “use it or lose it” approach to replace the BLM’s current “first come-first serve” practice.

Expedites the application process for solar development on private lands...

That National Monument proposal has been in the work for some time and it includes 45 million dollars contributed to by the Wildlands Conservancy to the Department of Interior. The area includes:

Mojave Trails National Monument Proposal

A portion of California’s largest cactus garden;

Pisgah Lava Flow – the most researched area in North America for the effects of volcanism on evolution;

Amboy Crater – a National Natural Landmark;

Sleeping Beauty Valley – the last intact valley representing the West Mojave plant associations;

Cady Mountains – best area in the Mojave to see bighorn sheep;
Afton Canyon – the Mojave River flows year-round amid colorful canyon walls;

Marble Mountains Fossil Beds – site of 550 million-year-old fossils of trilobites, which were among the first animals on earth with eyes and skeletons;

Wildlife and recreational corridors that connect two national parks and 13 wilderness areas – a refuge for campers and explorers, bighorn sheep, desert tortoises, and fringe-toed lizards.

Much can be said but the proposal for this National Monument was in place for several years now. A more balanced report can be found at NPR: A Renewable Energy Debate Heats Up In The Mojave.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

[Link: www.wildlandsconservancy.org...]

[Link: feinstein.senate.gov...]

633 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:06:27pm

re: #629 prairiefire


i have the burning covered...

634 Linden Arden  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:07:17pm

Neil Jung has a great body of work but its hard to pinpoint a great classic for him.

I love-

Cortez the Killer
Like a Hurricane
Pocahantas

(I am obviously partial to Native Americans with Young's music)

635 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:08:14pm

re: #634 Linden Arden

Neil Jung has a great body of work but its hard to pinpoint a great classic for him.

I love-

Cortez the Killer
Like a Hurricane
Pocahantas

(I am obviously partial to Native Americans with Young's music)

but Needle and the Damage Done is the most fun to play...

636 Linden Arden  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:10:24pm

re: #635 Aceofwhat?

but Needle and the Damage Done is the most fun to play...

But you can play an instrument.

I have no skill.

How do I know? I played for two years and failed.

637 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:10:31pm

re: #617 Thanos

Scary, kind of!
I do learn some interesting things here!

638 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:14:26pm

re: #632 Gus 802

TY for that link and clarification.

Still, the underlying problem remains. If there is a concerted movement to block transmission of power (and that seems to be a reality) what are we to do?

We can create and fund huge energy projects, but to what end? What's the point of creating tax incentives for projects and job creation if we can't get the power onto the grid?

It is ironic that coal will be a fuel of choice because it will have been grandfathered in over green energy because we can't move the power.

639 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:15:15pm

Mr. Young helped me get through a horrible adolescence.

My After The Gold Rush album is almost pancake flat.

640 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:18:14pm

re: #638 researchok

TY for that link and clarification.

Still, the underlying problem remains. If there is a concerted movement to block transmission of power (and that seems to be a reality) what are we to do?

We can create and fund huge energy projects, but to what end? What's the point of creating tax incentives for projects and job creation if we can't get the power onto the grid?

It is ironic that coal will be a fuel of choice because it will have been grandfathered in over green energy because we can't move the power.

There's no guarantee that it will pass. However, you point out some flaws in the proposed legislation such as the transmission line. I think the best route would be to balance both requirements of the National Monument and future energy needs. The total area is 1 million acres. One of the proposed solar energy projects is 5000 acres. Surely there can be some compromises made.

641 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:20:12pm

re: #634 Linden Arden

I still like Southern Man.

642 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:22:07pm

re: #640 Gus 802

There's no guarantee that it will pass. However, you point out some flaws in the proposed legislation such as the transmission line. I think the best route would be to balance both requirements of the National Monument and future energy needs. The total area is 1 million acres. One of the proposed solar energy projects is 5000 acres. Surely there can be some compromises made.

My remarks address more than the National Monument. There have been projects in Montana, Idaho and elsewhere that have been put on hold because of threats to block transmission towers with court actions.

Also, recall the wind turbine project off the Mass coast that piqued Teddy Kennedy's ire. That was more of a NIMBY matter, though.

643 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:22:45pm

"Welcome to Miami Beach..." says a scratchy Bruce Dern like voice from the dark...

"The Sun Always shines in Miami Beach" - *Click!* ... as a bare 100 watt hanging light bulb illuminates the stage and Neil Young.

644 Gus  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:24:06pm

re: #642 researchok

My remarks address more than the National Monument. There have been projects in Montana, Idaho and elsewhere that have been put on hold because of threats to block transmission towers with court actions.

Also, recall the wind turbine project off the Mass coast that piqued Teddy Kennedy's ire. That was more of a NIMBY matter, though.

Right. I heard early this week that Sen. Scott Brown even opposes the Nantucket wind turbine projects.

It gets very confusing when dealing with all of these conflicting interests.

645 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:25:58pm

re: #641 windsagio

I still like Southern Man.

Well I heard mister young sing about her
Well, I heard ole neil put her down
Well, I hope neil young will remember
A southern man dont need him around anyhow

646 windsagio  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:26:47pm

re: #645 Dark_Falcon

Yeah that always comes up;

Just means that it was effective tho ;)

647 researchok  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:30:01pm

re: #644 Gus 802

Right. I heard early this week that Sen. Scott Brown even opposes the Nantucket wind turbine projects.

It gets very confusing when dealing with all of these conflicting interests.

Yup.

We had better get our crap together soon because we are underpowered. I recently read somewhere that a 'healthy' power grid has a 15% surplus of electricity (help balance demand, etc) and that as of today we have a 5% surplus which means brownouts/blackouts in some markets.

That 15% surplus assumes an up to date grid. We are way behind the eight ball on that. I would have liked to have seen a real commitment to rebuilding the power grid as opposed to the stimulus pork handouts. Problem is, there is no real political benefit to power/infrastructure refurbishing. Sub stations aren't sexy enough.

648 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 23, 2010 6:30:06pm

re: #646 windsagio

Yeah that always comes up;

Just means that it was effective tho ;)

Yeah. One good song caused another to be created in reply.


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