Belgian Bishop Resigns in Sex Abuse Scandal

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The longest-serving Roman Catholic bishop in Belgium has resigned after admitting he sexually abused “a young man in my close entourage.”

In a statement issued by the Vatican on Friday, Roger Vangheluwe, 73, the bishop of Bruges since 1984, said that the abuse had occurred “when I was still a simple priest and for a while when I began as a bishop.”

“This has marked the victim forever,” he said.

The bishop said that on several occasions he had asked the victim and his family to forgive him, but the wound had not healed, “neither in me nor the victim.”

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118 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:21:49am

How many Popes ago did this fellow start abusing his flock?

2 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:22:37am

This is good that he is gone.

3 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:22:46am

This guy should have resigned years ago, the wounds he speaks of will never fully heal. But at least now that he’s confessed, I hope his repentance is genuine and that the Lord forgives him.

4 Varek Raith  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:23:30am

Somethings, in my mind, are forever unforgivable.

5 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:24:44am

He resigned at the age of 73. Excuse me if I’m not too impressed.

And although he’s not admitting it, it’s virtually certain that he abused other kids too. Pedophiles don’t just abuse one child. They leave a trail of damaged lives.

6 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:24:59am

Good that he is gone.

But he seems to get just how heinous a crime this was:

“This has marked the victim forever,” he said.

It’s not often you see the victims mentioned.
And the fact that he gets it, probably played into his decision to admit fault and resign.

Now … how do we make sure the higher ups start to get it?

7 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:26:53am

re: #5 Charles

He resigned at the age of 73. Excuse me if I’m not too impressed.

And although he’s not admitting it, it’s virtually certain that he abused other kids too. Pedophiles don’t just abuse one child. They leave a trail of damaged lives.

Agreed.
But I see it as a start - one of the very first admissions I’ve seen from a church official of the life-long trauma suffered by victims.

Others need to take note and follow suit.

8 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:28:11am

re: #7 reine.de.tout

Agreed.
But I see it as a start - one of the very first admissions I’ve seen from a church official of the life-long trauma suffered by victims.

Others need to take note and follow suit.

Quite Concur.

9 darthstar  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:29:19am

re: #5 Charles

He resigned at the age of 73. Excuse me if I’m not too impressed.

And although he’s not admitting it, it’s virtually certain that he abused other kids too. Pedophiles don’t just abuse one child. They leave a trail of damaged lives.

That’s what I was going to say…these guys are in their later years when they’re retiring. Get rid of the young and active abusers…that would be a start.

10 Lidane  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:29:28am

This is long overdue. More resignations like it need to happen.

Of course, I’d be more impressed if every Priest, Bishop, or Cardinal that knew of and covered up systematic abuse resigned en masse. THAT would be a real step in the right direction.

11 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:29:40am

How many Nazi murderers are there still around who refuse to acknowledge or pay for what they’ve done, and have to be extradited to face trial?

This man did the wrong thing. That he resigns now at the age of 73 instead of at 37 is still the right thing.

12 HoosierHoops  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:29:56am

re: #5 Charles

He resigned at the age of 73. Excuse me if I’m not too impressed.

And although he’s not admitting it, it’s virtually certain that he abused other kids too. Pedophiles don’t just abuse one child. They leave a trail of damaged lives.

Sadder words were never posted

13 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:31:17am

re: #5 Charles

He resigned at the age of 73. Excuse me if I’m not too impressed.

And although he’s not admitting it, it’s virtually certain that he abused other kids too. Pedophiles don’t just abuse one child. They leave a trail of damaged lives.

But the public admittance of this, his statement and any other information that proceeds from this revelation will be record, something the church can’t deny and in the least will be a warning to the church that their house of cards (in regards to sexual abuse) is capable of falling unless they make some substantive changes in procedure and policy.

14 Lidane  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:33:00am

re: #5 Charles

He resigned at the age of 73. Excuse me if I’m not too impressed.

Especially when you consider that there’s a mandatory retirement age of 75.

15 darthstar  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:35:03am
16 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:35:42am

re: #11 Cato the Elder

How many Nazi murderers are there still around who refuse to acknowledge or pay for what they’ve done, and have to be extradited to face trial?

This man did the wrong thing. That he resigns now at the age of 73 instead of at 37 is still the right thing.

And that he publicly acknowledges the harm done to the victims.

I hope there are others out there who take note of this, and do the same. It’s time for church officials and those involved in these acts to acknowledge just how heinous this crime is.

17 darthstar  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:35:56am
18 brookly red  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:36:20am

re: #15 darthstar

OT: I just turned 10.

congrats… now please report for carousel.

19 darthstar  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:36:34am

re: #18 brookly red

congrats… now please report for carousel.

Renew! Renew!

20 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:36:45am

re: #16 reine.de.tout

And that he publicly acknowledges the harm done to the victims.

I hope there are others out there who take note of this, and do the same. It’s time way past time for church officials and those involved in these acts to acknowledge just how heinous this crime is.

fixed that for myself.

21 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:36:45am

re: #6 reine.de.tout

Good that he is gone.

But he seems to get just how heinous a crime this was:

It’s not often you see the victims mentioned.
And the fact that he gets it, probably played into his decision to admit fault and resign.

Now … how do we make sure the higher ups start to get it?

Criminal & RICO charges would be a very good way to start. Say beginning with every Archbishop & Archdiocese in this nation?

No slash. I’m tired of these criminals & their rackets.

William

22 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:37:07am

re: #17 darthstar

Let’s try that again

Cool. You’ve done well here and your karma reflects it. Allow me to give you point 10,001.

BBL

23 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:37:08am
but the wound had not healed, “neither in me nor the victim

You’re not wounded, you asshole. You’re guilty.

24 mlgblg  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:38:14am

re: #10 Lidane

This is long overdue. More resignations like it need to happen.

Of course, I’d be more impressed if every Priest, Bishop, or Cardinal that knew of and covered up systematic abuse resigned en masse. THAT would be a real step in the right direction.

must start with the pope himself.

25 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:39:23am

re: #21 wlewisiii

Criminal & RICO charges would be a very good way to start. Say beginning with every Archbishop & Archdiocese in this nation?

No slash. I’m tired of these criminals & their rackets.

William

Only if you think that every priest and archbishop and bishop have engaged in the crimes themselves or the cover-ups.
I don’t think that’s the case.

26 brookly red  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:41:05am

re: #23 Obdicut

You’re not wounded, you asshole. You’re guilty.

good point… Does Belgium have a statute of limitations on such matters?

27 HoosierHoops  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:43:43am

re: #26 brookly red

good point… Does Belgium have a statute of limitations on such matters?

There should never be a statue of limitations against any crime on a child..
That should be law number one…

28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:45:06am

re: #27 HoosierHoops

Here comes rightwing nutjob… punishable by death.

29 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:45:12am

re: #25 reine.de.tout

Only if you think that every priest and archbishop and bishop have engaged in the crimes themselves or the cover-ups.
I don’t think that’s the case.


The Catholic church is an absolute heirarchy in which all power emanates from above. That means, conversely, that all responsibility must be borne by those above.

Knowing and failing to act is criminal, not knowing is not necessarily criminal, but highly negligent.

30 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:45:22am

re: #25 reine.de.tout

Only if you think that every priest and archbishop and bishop have engaged in the crimes themselves or the cover-ups.
I don’t think that’s the case.

Not every one of them was actively guilty - but did they turn in anyone to the police?

Investigations are needed to prove who is and isn’t criminally culpable but I’d say there isn’t anyone in the system right now that isn’t tainted to a greater or lesser extent.

Do take me with a grain or three of salt though as I do have my own personal issues as do other members of my family. I aligned with Canterbury rather than Rome a long time ago much to my mothers sadness even though she was pretty badly hurt by her church over her lifetime.

William

31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:45:22am

re: #28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Here comes rightwing nutjob… punishable by death.

And I meant it.

32 brookly red  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:46:40am

re: #28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Here comes rightwing nutjob… punishable by death.

I do remember reading “better that he should not have been born” somewhere… can’t place it right now.

33 Jimmah  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:47:10am
The longest-serving Roman Catholic bishop in Belgium has resigned after admitting he sexually abused “a young man in my close entourage.”

So when is the trial? There is going to be one right?

34 jamesfirecat  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:47:12am

re: #23 Obdicut

You’re not wounded, you asshole. You’re guilty.

I want to say as a catnip smoking liberal that given that the man is now repenting for what he did, realizing it was wrong, this in turn means that he’s going to have to live the rest of the life with the knowledge of just what a terrible thing he has done.

This is in no way equivalent to the harm he inflicted on his victim(s?) but it is a factor, and I’d like to believe that its the kind of thing that a person will probably never be able to truly forgive himself for what he has done.

This man did a horrible horrible thing, and he’s atoning for it in the most slap on the wrist way imaginable, but it is a step in the right direction, which only highlights how far the Catholic Church has left to go before it can satisfactorily said to have dealt with this problem.

(Ding as you feel you must)

35 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:47:20am

re: #29 ralphieboy

re: #30 wlewisiii

OK, well.
I’m a Catholic, and I’ve been as harsh as anyone in decrying the Church’s actions (or lack of action) in these cases.

If the two of you wish to indict every Catholic in the country, have at it.

Pardon me if I keep out of those discussions.

36 HoosierHoops  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:47:36am

re: #31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And I meant it.

I’m sorry..What? I missed it…

37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:48:56am

re: #32 brookly red

Something with millstones innit?

38 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:49:04am

re: #35 reine.de.tout


Far from indicting every Catholic, I wish to see that those in the heirarchy responsible are finally identified and punished so that Catholics who truly believe in their church and faith may continue without an endless row of scandals plaguing them.

39 brookly red  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:51:37am

re: #37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Something with millstones innit?

sounds familiar…

40 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:52:23am

re: #38 ralphieboy

Far from indicting every Catholic, I wish to see that those in the heirarchy responsible are finally identified and punished so that Catholics who truly believe in their church and faith may continue without an endless row of scandals plaguing them.

As do I.
And that comes with identifying those responsible for the acts themselves or responsible for and actively participating in cover-ups.

Not from assuming that all persons “in the system” are guilty somehow.

41 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:53:03am

re: #21 wlewisiii

Criminal & RICO charges would be a very good way to start. Say beginning with every Archbishop & Archdiocese in this nation?

No slash. I’m tired of these criminals & their rackets.

William

Nothing like rounding up everyone, innocent and guilty alike.

Feh.

42 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:53:28am

Archbishop Thomas Wenski (moving from Olrando to The Archdiocese in Miami) spoke on the local news this morning. Unfortunately, I just caught the tail end and didn’t hear him, but I looked at their website and found a link “Protecting God’s Children” which states its commitment to protect children from abuse:

[Link: www.newmiamiarch.org…]

I think it’s a positive sign. Certainly, they aren’t ignoring it which is worse. I wonder if all Catholic websites have such a statement. They should.

The last paragraph on that page, however, makes a mention that they will strive to restore the name of anyone who has been falsely accused. I don’t know. I find that a little odd. Is that a necessary statement?

(p.s. Why do web designers insist on gray letters on a white background? Gives me a freakin headache.)

43 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:54:31am

re: #30 wlewisiii

Not every one of them was actively guilty - but did they turn in anyone to the police?

Investigations are needed to prove who is and isn’t criminally culpable but I’d say there isn’t anyone in the system right now that isn’t tainted to a greater or lesser extent.

Do take me with a grain or three of salt though as I do have my own personal issues as do other members of my family. I aligned with Canterbury rather than Rome a long time ago much to my mothers sadness even though she was pretty badly hurt by her church over her lifetime.

William

I’m a Catholic “in the system”.
I’m not tainted.
And there is nothing you can say that will make me believe I am.

44 brookly red  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:55:21am

re: #42 marjoriemoon

(p.s. Why do web designers insist on gray letters on a white background? Gives me a freakin headache.)

/did you notice the pop up ad for Advil?

45 Jimmah  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:55:37am

They are really scraping the barrel now -get a load of this:

Colombia cardinal defends church’s abuse policies

BOGOTA — A senior cardinal defended the Roman Catholic Church’s practice of frequently not reporting sexual abusive priests to the police, saying Thursday it would have been like testifying against a family member at trial.

Colombian Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos also said in a radio interview that Pope Benedict XVI, formerly Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was involved in a 2001 decision to praise a French bishop for shielding a priest who was convicted of raping minors.

“The law in nations with a well-developed judiciary does not force anyone to testify against a child, a father, against other people close to the suspect,” Castrillon told RCN radio. “Why would they ask that of the church? That’s the injustice. It’s not about defending a pedophile, it’s about defending the dignity and the human rights of a person, even the worst of criminals.

continued:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

46 Varek Raith  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:56:16am

re: #44 brookly red

(p.s. Why do web designers insist on gray letters on a white background? Gives me a freakin headache.)


/did you notice the pop up ad for Advil?

MY EYES!!!

47 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:57:02am

re: #30 wlewisiii

Not every one of them was actively guilty - but did they turn in anyone to the police?

Investigations are needed to prove who is and isn’t criminally culpable but I’d say there isn’t anyone in the system right now that isn’t tainted to a greater or lesser extent.

Do take me with a grain or three of salt though as I do have my own personal issues as do other members of my family. I aligned with Canterbury rather than Rome a long time ago much to my mothers sadness even though she was pretty badly hurt by her church over her lifetime.

William

You also aligned with lack of reason. Your blanket all inclusive statements are bullshit.

48 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:59:48am

re: #42 marjoriemoon

Many have programs in effect.
Baton Rouge Diocese does.

49 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:59:50am

re: #43 reine.de.tout

You are a priest? If so, I stand corrected.

The laity have never been in the system.

William

50 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:00:31am

re: #49 wlewisiii

You are a priest? If so, I stand corrected.

The laity have never been in the system.

William

The laity are the system.
The church is its members.

51 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:00:41am

re: #42 marjoriemoon

(p.s. Why do web designers insist on gray letters on a white background? Gives me a freakin headache.)

It’s better than white letters on a gray background.

52 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:00:54am

re: #47 Walter L. Newton

You’re welcome to have that faith, Walter.

William

53 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:02:07am

As Cardinal Ratzinger, the current Pope was really down on “revolution theologists”, who pressed for more democracy within the church.

Granted, matters of church doctrine and dogma cannot be put to a majority vote, but there is a lot of room for more democracy in everday operations.

And transparency and accountability are the foundations of democracy. The lack of them is one of the contributing factors to this ongoing series of scandals.

54 Jimmah  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:03:11am

re: #30 wlewisiii

Not every one of them was actively guilty - but did they turn in anyone to the police?

Investigations are needed to prove who is and isn’t criminally culpable but I’d say there isn’t anyone in the system right now that isn’t tainted to a greater or lesser extent.

Do take me with a grain or three of salt though as I do have my own personal issues as do other members of my family. I aligned with Canterbury rather than Rome a long time ago much to my mothers sadness even though she was pretty badly hurt by her church over her lifetime.

William

Apparently, it’s unjust to expect a member of the clergy to turn in a fellow member - even if they are the worst of criminals.

By that logic I guess it’s also cool when muslim imams keep schtoom about their colleagues terrorist activities? Organised religion - the gift that keeps on giving.

55 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:04:04am

re: #50 reine.de.tout

I’ll stop posting on this as it does neither of us any good. Please accept that I would simply love for a true champion of the faith to come along & clean things up. Another Giovanni Francesco di Bernardone would be a great help, but that isn’t me & so I’ll just shut up now.

William

56 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:04:55am

re: #48 reine.de.tout

Many have programs in effect.
Baton Rouge Diocese does.

I like that one better. I didn’t see anything that mentioned protecting the priests.

It’s not that I’m against such a thing. Of course, if someone is wrongly accused, they should have their name restored. (Has there yet been such a case?) I just see that as a given. You would think that not harming children would also be a given! But that hasn’t been the case.

57 allegro  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:05:06am

As worldwide-spread as this has been, with priests being bounced from one place to another repeatedly to protect them and allow the abuse to continue, I find it difficult to accept that even good priests in the system didn’t know of such abuse occurring and by whom. Yet, none stepped forward. In this sense, I think wlewisiii likely has a valid point with the statement “there isn’t anyone

in the system

right now that isn’t tainted to a greater or lesser extent.”

To suggest that the true injustice is the demand for those who knew of the abuse to testify against their “family” makes me want to hit something. This attitude deepens the taint and makes it stink even more.

58 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:05:24am

re: #52 wlewisiii

You’re welcome to have that faith, Walter.

William

I’m an atheist. I’m not talking about faith. I’m talking about your bigoted all inclusive statements about the priesthood of the church. And guess what, the Catholic church does have lay ministers and deacons and attendants that do assist with clerical duties.

If you are going to cut down a whole group of people with one fell swoop, at least know what you are talking about.

59 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:07:57am

re: #44 brookly red

re: #51 Alouette

re: #46 Varek Raith

I have a new multi-focal lens in my right eye after cataract surgery. It’s my bionic eye (and I can see into the future…). But I have another cataract in the other eye which I’m planning on funding next year. (Insurance doesn’t pay for multi-focal lenses.)

SO…. my poor little eyes favor the black on white.

60 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:13:56am

OK, how does a person stop ants from getting into their freezer? I have a trail that has targeted the freezer. They can’t be getting much out of there…they freeze to death in legions just a few inches in—I expect to find an ant-sized model of the Endurance frozen into one of my ice trays any day now. But they persist. What the hell is going on here?

61 brookly red  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:14:58am

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, how does a person stop ants from getting into their freezer? I have a trail that has targeted the freezer. They can’t be getting much out of there…they freeze to death in legions just a few inches in—I expect to find an ant-sized model of the Endurance frozen into one of my ice trays any day now. But they persist. What the hell is going on here?

you might try ant traps… they do work.

62 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:15:00am

re: #30 wlewisiii

Not every one of them was actively guilty - but did they turn in anyone to the police?

Investigations are needed to prove who is and isn’t criminally culpable but I’d say there isn’t anyone in the system right now that isn’t tainted to a greater or lesser extent.

Do take me with a grain or three of salt though as I do have my own personal issues as do other members of my family. I aligned with Canterbury rather than Rome a long time ago much to my mothers sadness even though she was pretty badly hurt by her church over her lifetime.

William

I’ll tell you what: we’ll do that parallel to doing the same thing to Wall Street.

Shut ‘em both down, the Church and the Churners, and send in the SEC for the former and the FBI for the latter. Leave no stone unturned, and put everybody who is in any way tainted into camps - priests with prognosticators. I’m betting you’ll get more criminals per capita of participants out of the Street than the Via Dolorosa.

The start again from scratch.

63 allegro  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:15:10am

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

Follow the trail back to the source and sprinkle a bit of boric acid. Cleansing the trail with vinegar can help as well.

64 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:15:21am

When you are dealing with a hierarchy, any outside investigation of wrongdoing is seen as a threat to the organization overall, which is pretty much the sense behind the Colombian Cardinal’s comments in #45.

That is why the Church was so secretive about it and why they still continue to fight against any real reforms.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:16:05am

re: #61 brookly red

you might try ant traps… they do work.

We’ve got several of those. I don’t know if they’ll work IN THE FREEZER, though. Any thoughts?

66 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:16:12am

re: #59 marjoriemoon

re: #51 Alouette

re: #46 Varek Raith

I have a new multi-focal lens in my right eye after cataract surgery. It’s my bionic eye (and I can see into the future…). But I have another cataract in the other eye which I’m planning on funding next year. (Insurance doesn’t pay for multi-focal lenses.)

SO… my poor little eyes favor the black on white.

You sound like my mother. Do you set your screen resolution at 640 x 480?

67 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:16:58am

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, how does a person stop ants from getting into their freezer? I have a trail that has targeted the freezer. They can’t be getting much out of there…they freeze to death in legions just a few inches in—I expect to find an ant-sized model of the Endurance frozen into one of my ice trays any day now. But they persist. What the hell is going on here?

Boric acid powder.

68 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:17:12am

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

We’ve got several of those. I don’t know if they’ll work IN THE FREEZER, though. Any thoughts?


You need to set the traps to destroy the scent trail leading to the freezer. Where are they getting in?

69 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:17:40am

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

Terro works great for sweet eating ants. If you want to kill them on the spot & not use bug spray in the house, windex or some ammonia will do the trick.

70 brookly red  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:18:01am

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

We’ve got several of those. I don’t know if they’ll work IN THE FREEZER, though. Any thoughts?

yes put them down the trail on the way to the freezer, they are baited and some of the ants will carry the bait back for the queen to eat…

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:18:11am

re: #68 ralphieboy

You need to set the traps to destroy the scent trail leading to the freezer. Where are they getting in?

Down the vent pipe from the stove, which is set into a cabinet over the stove. From there, a short hop to the top of the refrigerator.

72 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:18:30am

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, how does a person stop ants from getting into their freezer? I have a trail that has targeted the freezer. They can’t be getting much out of there…they freeze to death in legions just a few inches in—I expect to find an ant-sized model of the Endurance frozen into one of my ice trays any day now. But they persist. What the hell is going on here?

We have a lot of geckos that hang out by the windows. Pretty much has stopped our ant problem.

I have nothing else to offer you :p

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:18:40am

re: #69 Floral Giraffe

Terro works great for sweet eating ants. If you want to kill them on the spot & not use bug spray in the house, windex or some ammonia will do the trick.

Full strength Simple Green appears to kill on contact.

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:19:22am

re: #72 marjoriemoon

We have a lot of geckos that hang out by the windows. Pretty much has stopped our ant problem.

I have nothing else to offer you :p

Hey, that might work!

75 allegro  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:20:04am

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you plug the entry hole with caulk? That might help to prevent another invasion.

76 brookly red  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:21:18am

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

Down the vent pipe from the stove, which is set into a cabinet over the stove. From there, a short hop to the top of the refrigerator.

sound like maybe they don’t want to come home again…

77 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:22:22am

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

Down the vent pipe from the stove, which is set into a cabinet over the stove. From there, a short hop to the top of the refrigerator.

Napalm.

78 HoosierHoops  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:22:38am

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey, that might work!

Ants? 6 cans of Wasp spray last year in the back yard..
If only we had video of me spraying inside the barn and running out screaming like a little girl.. Wasps are bad ass…

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:22:44am

re: #75 allegro

Can you plug the entry hole with caulk? That might help to prevent another invasion.

My husband has done several of those, but the problem is that we’re right next to the Greenway.

80 albusteve  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:22:45am

the Bishop should be prosecuted….to not do so is a travesty of the law….then punished like any other sex criminal

81 Athens Runaway  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:22:46am

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

Down the vent pipe from the stove, which is set into a cabinet over the stove. From there, a short hop to the top of the refrigerator.

Nuke it from orbit?

82 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:23:13am

re: #62 Cato the Elder

I’ll tell you what: we’ll do that parallel to doing the same thing to Wall Street.

Shut ‘em both down, the Church and the Churners, and send in the SEC for the former and the FBI for the latter. Leave no stone unturned, and put everybody who is in any way tainted into camps - priests with prognosticators. I’m betting you’ll get more criminals per capita of participants out of the Street than the Via Dolorosa.

The start again from scratch.

I don’t want to speak for William, but that’s not what I got out of what he said. What I heard was even those who didn’t personally harm children had to have had some knowledge of it in those parishes that it was happening. It would have been better for the church (I’m saying this, I don’t know if William is saying this!) if this scandal was outed by their own clergy and brought to trial, etc.

83 brookly red  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:23:54am

re: #78 HoosierHoops

Ants? 6 cans of Wasp spray last year in the back yard..
If only we had video of me spraying inside the barn and running out screaming like a little girl.. Wasps are bad ass…

put the bug spray in a bowl of grape jelly…

84 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:24:24am

It is good to clean house. I hope it is all cleaned. There needs to be some outfit with a clean house, just so there can be an outfit that can say the things that people need to hear, but don’t want to hear, and which can’t just be dismissed because of scandal.

Right now, there is probably no outfit like that.

85 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:25:05am

re: #66 Alouette

You sound like my mother. Do you set your screen resolution at 640 x 480?

I’m not that bad! I’m also assuming your mom has at least 40 years on me lol I’m only 48. Apparently it’s not quite rare, but also not common at my age. For how well I can see out of that eye now, I really was nearly blind. I didn’t realize it.

86 Athens Runaway  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:25:23am

re: #62 Cato the Elder

I’ll tell you what: we’ll do that parallel to doing the same thing to Wall Street.

Shut ‘em both down, the Church and the Churners, and send in the SEC for the former and the FBI for the latter. Leave no stone unturned, and put everybody who is in any way tainted into camps - priests with prognosticators. I’m betting you’ll get more criminals per capita of participants out of the Street than the Via Dolorosa.

The start again from scratch.

Beautiful idea. Tear down the wall between church and state, have the State shut down the Church, and rebuild the Church as a subsidiary of the State.

I see no way that this could be a bad idea.

/

87 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:25:37am

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

Wow those ants are persistent.

88 jamesfirecat  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:26:24am

re: #81 Athens Runaway

Nuke it from orbit?

Its the only way to be sure.

89 Athens Runaway  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:27:29am

re: #88 jamesfirecat

Its the only way to be sure.

Game over, man. Game over.

90 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:27:37am

re: #82 marjoriemoon

I don’t want to speak for William, but that’s not what I got out of what he said. What I heard was even those who didn’t personally harm children had to have had some knowledge of it in those parishes that it was happening. It would have been better for the church (I’m saying this, I don’t know if William is saying this!) if this scandal was outed by their own clergy and brought to trial, etc.

Yes, and I’m saying that all the criminal scamsters on Wall Street were and are known to others who watched them scam people out of their entire fortunes and did nothing about it. And how many of those scamsters do you expect are cokeheads and purchasers of underage sex, here or on weekend trips to Bangkok?

This morning I’m for blowing up the motherfucking world and letting evolution try again in a terabillion years or so.

91 Athens Runaway  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:28:51am

Since Catholicism is the topic of the moment, here’s a dose of Superdickery:

Superman’s Catholic?

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:29:30am

re: #88 jamesfirecat

Its the only way to be sure.

I’m just imagining the presentation to the Neighborhood Association—‘Why we had to destroy this town in order to save it, or at least my freezer, from the ants.’

The other thing that’s occurred to me is that I could just move everything to the stand-up freezer, and let them build a winter wonderland, or whatever the hell they’re trying to do, in the little one.

93 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:30:09am

re: #90 Cato the Elder

Yes, and I’m saying that all the criminal scamsters on Wall Street were and are known to others who watched them scam people out of their entire fortunes and did nothing about it. And how many of those scamsters do you expect are cokeheads and purchasers of underage sex, here or on weekend trips to Bangkok?

This morning I’m for blowing up the motherfucking world and letting evolution try again in a terabillion years or so.

Ahh gotcha. And well agree.

Ya know, you have to live for life’s little pleasures sometimes. Friends (on and offline :>), family, pets, a crisp spring day. Well you know this! Just a reminder.

94 brookly red  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:31:38am

re: #93 marjoriemoon

Ahh gotcha. And well agree.

Ya know, you have to live for life’s little pleasures sometimes. Friends (on and offline :>), family, pets, a crisp spring day. Well you know this! Just a reminder.

beer run!

95 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:31:45am

re: #90 Cato the Elder

were and are known to others who watched them scam

Chi tace consenta.

Well what a culture of materialism and corruption, where is charity there?

Truly we shall see only a remnant of the old virtues.

Then a small number will have to rebuild the moral edifice.

Oh well, oh well.

96 webevintage  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:32:30am

re: #48 reine.de.tout

Many have programs in effect.
Baton Rouge Diocese does.

Actually I think all of the American Dioceses do now.

97 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:33:49am

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m just imagining the presentation to the Neighborhood Association—‘Why we had to destroy this town in order to save it, or at least my freezer, from the ants.’

The other thing that’s occurred to me is that I could just move everything to the stand-up freezer, and let them build a winter wonderland, or whatever the hell they’re trying to do, in the little one.

I’d probably advise against making them tenants. They won’t pay rent and they’ll just move in all their family.

Did you say you did the boric acid and traps? Boric acid works well on flea eggs.

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:35:12am

re: #97 marjoriemoon

I’d probably advise against making them tenants. They won’t pay rent and they’ll just move in all their family.

Did you say you did the boric acid and traps? Boric acid works well on flea eggs.

We’ve got traps. Boric acid we’ll have to try.

99 allegro  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:37:57am

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

Boric acid we’ll have to try.

Ants breathe through their legs. Boric acid basically plugs the pores up when they tromp through it, suffocating the little bastards.

100 Reginald Perrin  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:40:10am

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

The other thing that’s occurred to me is that I could just move everything to the stand-up freezer, and let them build a winter wonderland, or whatever the hell they’re trying to do, in the little one.

The only way to get rid of the ants is to poison the nest. Ant traps are designed for that task, the ant takes the bait back to the nest. Killing the ants prior to returning to the nest is counterproductive.
Someone earlier mentioned removing the scent trail, this is essential. A strong mixture of chlorine bleach and water is ideal. Don’t rinse the solution because once it dries, there is no harmful residue.

101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:41:04am

Not trying to be a jerk, but… it appears to me that the more vocal and most ready to attack the entire Church for this scandalous behavior… weren’t that nuts about the Church to begin with.

I’m not defending the people who have committed these atrocities… I’m just sayin’.

102 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:43:24am

re: #101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not trying to be a jerk, but… it appears to me that the more vocal and most ready to attack the entire Church for this scandalous behavior… weren’t that nuts about the Church to begin with.

I’m not defending the people who have committed these atrocities… I’m just sayin’.

Granted, I was raised Catholic and have never been “nuts about the Church” ever since I developed the ability to think critically.

And one of the reasons was their lack of transparency and accountability in dealing with internal maters…

103 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:43:25am

re: #99 allegro

Ants breathe through their legs. Boric acid basically plugs the pores up when they tromp through it, suffocating the little bastards.

Back in the day before you could put pesticides on your animals (referring to “Advantage”), I had to go through this whole regime to get rid of the fleas and my cats didn’t go outside. Ship them off to the vet for bathing (tho not dipping), spread boric acid on all the carpets, bomb the house. Repeat in 2 weeks just to be sure you got all the eggs. Was a pain in the arse.

104 allegro  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:44:00am

re: #101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not trying to be a jerk, but… it appears to me that the more vocal and most ready to attack the entire Church for this scandalous behavior… weren’t that nuts about the Church to begin with.

Since it has been demonstrated that this problem is a system-wide and institutionalized one, and not just a small local issue involving a few, who should be held accountable if not the entire church at this point?

105 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:44:26am

re: #99 allegro

Ants breathe through their legs. Boric acid basically plugs the pores up when they tromp through it, suffocating the little bastards.

“My girlfriend’s voice teacher is telling her to sing through her diaphragm. It would take years to learn how to do that.”
-Steve Martin

106 allegro  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:45:25am

re: #103 marjoriemoon

Re: “Advantage”

Has there ever been a greater advance in the history of mankind/animal association? I love that stuff.

107 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 11:59:15am

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

Put a better seal on the freezer, would at least keep them out. A new gasket.

108 Liet_Kynes  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 1:55:14pm

Good. The problem with committing a grievous sin and getting away with it, is that if one winds up in a position of power, such a person is more than likely to enable or cover-up others who sin in the same grievous way, even if one regrets what they did.

I’m in favor of having his eminence stand outside of his cathedral for every Mass conducted there for a month asking for forgiveness and then retiring to a monastery some place to live out his life in prayer and penance to seek spiritual healing (assuming of course that the civil authorities don’t want him). He is a bishop and he has a deep spiritual wound because of his sins. He has terribly terribly hurt others in unspeakable ways, let us not though be glad about the damage that he has done to his own immortal soul. Whereas it may not matter to those who do not have faith “It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones. “ Luke 17:2. Scandalized he has and a great many at that.

Above all, the Church needs to pray for those abused, minister to them, and seek to strengthen them in their faith. It is going to take time to clean things up and those working in the trenches are making progress day by day.

109 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 2:37:28pm

re: #108 Liet_Kynes

He has terribly terribly hurt others in unspeakable ways, let us not though be glad about the damage that he has done to his own immortal soul

Who the fuck do you think is glad about it?

110 Achilles Tang  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 2:41:14pm

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m just imagining the presentation to the Neighborhood Association—‘Why we had to destroy this town in order to save it, or at least my freezer, from the ants.’

The other thing that’s occurred to me is that I could just move everything to the stand-up freezer, and let them build a winter wonderland, or whatever the hell they’re trying to do, in the little one.

Hi; this is weird, but clearly you have a bad seal on your freezer and there are enticing smells coming out which are luring the ants to your stuff, and then the breeze freezes them.

Replace the freezer, or the seal.

111 Achilles Tang  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 2:43:28pm

re: #108 Liet_Kynes

Why not just do what most people do. Put the suckers in jail and screw this special relationship with religions?

112 Liet_Kynes  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 7:10:31pm

re: #109 Obdicut

Who the fuck do you think is glad about it?

Those that only want such individuals to suffer hell fire and offer sinners no path to redemption. Such individuals find glee in anothers damnation.

re: #111 Naso Tang

Why not just do what most people do. Put the suckers in jail and screw this special relationship with religions?

The special relationship exists because this country believes in the seperation of Church and State.

The Church is not in the business of putting people in prison, it is in the business of saving souls. Sometimes it is necessary to hand people over to the state for criminal prosecution.

113 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 8:10:11pm

re: #112 Liet_Kynes


Those that only want such individuals to suffer hell fire and offer sinners no path to redemption. Such individuals find glee in anothers damnation.

Right, sorry, I forgot I was talking to a religious zealot who is incapable of seeing the world through any other lens.


The Church is not in the business of putting people in prison, it is in the business of saving souls. Sometimes it is necessary to hand people over to the state for criminal prosecution.

It is always necessary.

114 Judith  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 8:55:13pm

One of the main, surefire signs of an pedophile who will offend again is that he always sees himself as a victim. This guy is more interested in his own suffering and how the family hasn’t been able to heal even though he begged forgiveness.

PEDOPHILE!

And I’ll bet everything I own in this world now and the next he has other victims and he’s only sorry everyone else just won’t get over it and keep making his life miserable. Repentance? No way. It’s all part of the pedophile con art.

115 Liet_Kynes  Sun, Apr 25, 2010 9:14:28pm

re: #113 Obdicut

Right, sorry, I forgot I was talking to a religious zealot who is incapable of seeing the world through any other lens.
It is always necessary.

I can see the world through other people’s lenses. You didn’t ask me to though, you asked me to see it as the Church sees it — a lens which demands mercy to be part of the equation.

It is not always necessary. Let me here speak in generalities and not specifically of sexual abuse by prelates. The idea of not turning an individual over to the state for punishment but instead offering a path of mercy and rehabilitation predates the writing of scripture. Consider the idea of a sanctuary city in ancient Mesopotamia thought. Consider the novel/musical/movie Les Miserables. The bishop did not turn Jean Valjean over to the authorities for punishment. Would you side with Inspector Javert and his absolute pursuit of justice without mercy?

116 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 26, 2010 9:52:02am

re: #115 Liet_Kynes

Let’s not speak in generalities, but instead about sexual abuse, since that’s what we’re talking about.

117 Liet_Kynes  Mon, Apr 26, 2010 12:14:25pm

re: #116 Obdicut

Let’s not speak in generalities, but instead about sexual abuse, since that’s what we’re talking about.

Yes but it is wise to start with generalities and move to specifics.

You didn’t answer my question though. Do you advocate the absolute pursuit of justice without mercy?

Stuff to think about: What is the purpose of the state’s criminal system according to your beliefs? How much of the purpose is it for vengeance on behalf of the wronged? How much of the purpose is it to segregate the dangerous from society? What is the place of mercy and rehabilitation?

Speaking Generally:
The Church does not exist above the law, but the Church does not exist below the law of any particular State or Nation. If one does not believe this, they do not believe in the separation of Church and State, but rather the subservience of the Church to the State. I am a fierce supporter of the seperation of Church and State. As an analogy (though clearly not a complete one): Just as the United States Military has its own internal law which it is subject to and does not always hand its criminals over to the State, so too does the Church has its own internal law which she is subject to and does not always hand criminals over to the State.

Speaking Specifically:
Do I oppose handing sexual abuser prelates over to the State for punishment? No of course not. However, again the Church is not in the business of punishing sinners but of saving souls. If justice and mercy is not served by handing a sexual abuser (or any criminal) over to the state, then I would oppose handing said individual over to the State. However, in most cases, especially in the western world, justice and mercy is in fact served by handing a sexual abuser over to the State (even if the US judicial system and prisons are far far from ideally just or merciful). The normal mode of operations and internal law of the Church should be, and in fact is and has recently been directly clarified and stated by Pope Benedict XVI, to hand a sexual abuser over to the State for punishment because that is the best course of action for saving souls. The problem is not the laws of the Church but rather some bishops were not following those internal laws and were instead purposely engaging in policies that continued the endangering of souls and did not offer true justice and healing. Said mitered heads need to retire.

—Thread is old now, feel free to comment, save questions for next time please, and Ill see you in the next thread.

118 Sacred Plants  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 7:59:38am

This kind of self-righteous rhetorics is precisely what should encourage victims to run all relations to the Church through their therapist. The bishop may indeed once have been a victim of sexual abuse himself, but nevertheless does not elaborate what made him believe in the first place that he could heal his own wounds by wounding others. That´s just as odd as the idea that someone could get rid of their HIV infection by deliberately infecting others. Why does everyone need to prove over and over again that it doesn´t work that way?


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