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223 comments
1 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:51:31pm

What you mean that conservative anti-science shills will say anything for a buck no matter how many people it hurts and then claim to be moral and upstanding people. About the only good news I can add to this is that Malkin would arouse reasonable suspicion if stopped in AZ.

2 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:52:24pm

I used to smoke. I support the right of people to smoke.

But goddamn, I cannot understand being in the tobacco industry. I can’t understand selling a product like that and making money off of it with a clean conscience.

And then going and repeatedly lying about the science, and paying others to lie to people— that’s where I’m ready to use the word ‘evil’.

3 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:52:32pm

In the words of Dennis Leary himself doing an impression of Kieth Richards…

F***ing crazy!

4 Political Atheist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:53:15pm

I remember the Dennis Leary smoking rant. OMG

5 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:53:34pm

Dear God, does she have no shame?

6 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:53:57pm

Some people will say or do anything to make a buck.
Or become “famous”.
It’s very strange.

7 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:54:30pm

re: #2 Obdicut

I used to smoke. I support the right of people to smoke.

But goddamn, I cannot understand being in the tobacco industry. I can’t understand selling a product like that and making money off of it with a clean conscience.

And then going and repeatedly lying about the science, and paying others to lie to people— that’s where I’m ready to use the word ‘evil’.

I support people’s right to smoke because it’s legal. I would love to see it made illegal.

8 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:54:31pm

re: #1 ludwigvanquixote

What you mean that conservative anti-science shills will say anything for a buck no matter how many people it hurts and then claim to be moral and upstanding people. About the only good news I can add to this is that Malkin would arouse reasonable suspicion if stopped in AZ.

Ludwig, you should check out the latest attempt by the Stalkers to attack AGW science. This time they’re going after the Hockey Stick graph you’ve used. I know they’re full of it, but I thought it wise to let you know.

9 cliffster  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:55:00pm

what is this, “how may threads can we have in one night” night?

10 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:55:29pm

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

I support people’s right to smoke because it’s legal. I would love to see it made illegal.

Prohibition is generally ineffective, raising crime and creating a black market. Why do you think it’d be effective with cigarettes?

11 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:56:34pm

re: #4 Rightwingconspirator

I remember the Dennis Leary smoking rant. OMG

Smoking take ten years off your life! Well they’re the worst f***ing years folks, they’re the ones at the end!

12 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:56:39pm

re: #9 cliffster

what is this, “how may threads can we have in one night” night?

No, but there’s a lot of bad science and wingnuttery to be demolished tonight.

13 Political Atheist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:57:20pm

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

Just in time for cannabis to become legal. Ironic to say the least.

14 brainiac-dumdum  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:57:38pm

She didn’t learn the lesson.

15 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:58:57pm

Forgive me for being obtuse, but i read the article at the link and didn’t see anything about smoking - but clearly you all know what Charles intended to mean through the link. Would someone remedy my ignorance here?

thanks-

16 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:00:21pm

My favorite in-law was my husband’s aunt. She was awesome. Great sense of humor, loved my kids, sensible woman. The last time we saw her she had an oxygen pack at her side and tubes in her nose. A few months later, she was gone.

I hate smoking.

17 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:00:47pm

re: #8 Dark_Falcon

Ludwig, you should check out the latest attempt by the Stalkers to attack AGW science. This time they’re going after the Hockey Stick graph you’ve used. I know they’re full of it, but I thought it wise to let you know.

Oh please,

Mann was vindicated by the National Academy. During that time multiple other groups using different methods and data sets corroborated his results.

Assuming that those fools would even care to talk evidence or science is simply beyond possible. There isn’t enough science between them to solve one of those word problems about when two trains pass each other. Even if they did have that level of sophistication, they would not look at the evidence.

Conspiracy theory, hateful racism, sexism, homophobia and denialism is their religion. That is why they were banned in the first place after all. There is no more point in arguing with them about his than there is attempting to teach algebra to a cat.

It is hard enough getting Walter to look at actual science and he’s just a cantankerous troll who isn’t any of those things.

18 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:01:02pm

re: #15 Aceofwhat?

Forgive me for being obtuse, but i read the article at the link and didn’t see anything about smoking - but clearly you all know what Charles intended to mean through the link. Would someone remedy my ignorance here?

thanks-

The article promotes joining The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), one of the most notorious tobacco industry front groups.

19 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:01:13pm

re: #15 Aceofwhat?

The group she’s advocating joining was a front group for the tobacco industry.

20 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:01:18pm

re: #10 Obdicut

Prohibition is generally ineffective, raising crime and creating a black market. Why do you think it’d be effective with cigarettes?

Should every activity be legal merely because some people flout the law?

21 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:02:57pm

re: #20 Spare O’Lake

Should every activity be legal merely because some people flout the law?

If I remember correctly, there was talk over the last week that we should legalize drugs, and that would solve out border problems with the gangs. Yep, that’s the ticket, compromise our laws because some other country can’t even police it’s own citizens.

Same mentality.

22 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:03:03pm

re: #18 Charles

Thanks. I had never heard of them, but now the thread - and the article- makes complete sense.

I appreciate it.

23 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:03:18pm

re: #20 Spare O’Lake

Should every activity be legal merely because some people flout the law?

No, but ones that are only self-harming should, in general, be legal.

I’m not sure how you arrived at the other interpretation from what I said, since I referenced prohibition.

24 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:03:51pm

re: #18 Charles

The article promotes joining The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), one of the most notorious tobacco industry front groups.

Yeah that’s one of the things I hate the most about these folks. They come up with all of these names that sound official, scientific and fair. From the title you would wonder, how could anyone argue with that? It is a lie from the very start designed to pull people in - to their own harm.

Of course, if they actually advanced sound science, they would be telling you how terrible cigarettes are for you. Of course if they had any conscience whatsoever, any honor, any morality, they would tell the truth about the science.

25 researchok  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:04:14pm

Don’t forget- we pay for the treatment of people harmed by tobacco in the form of higher insurance rates and/or higher taxes.

And that doesn’t include the subsidies we pay tobacco farmers.

26 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:04:42pm

re: #15 Aceofwhat?

Forgive me for being obtuse, but i read the article at the link and didn’t see anything about smoking - but clearly you all know what Charles intended to mean through the link. Would someone remedy my ignorance here?

thanks-

The article is a fluff piece by Malkin for TASSC, which, I guess, is a science-denier group that previously ‘taught the controversy’ with regards to Big Tobacco, and now does the same for climate change. It’s unsurprising to see Michelle Malkin advocating for such folks, but I agree, the link and controversy therein in and of themselves seems very tenuous.

I have, however, long noted that the climate deniers bear striking similarity to big tobacco deniers. It wasn’t so long ago that Rush Limbaugh was making the health effects of tobacco a political issue, and had people calling his show telling him how proud they were to be a smoker. Politicising matters of science, whether it be tobacco or vaccination, is a very dangerous thing, especially in this ridiculous age of media equivocation where every idiotic assertion is ‘one side of an issue’ that ‘has to be presented equally’.

27 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:04:51pm

re: #25 researchok

Don’t forget- we pay for the treatment of people harmed by tobacco in the form of higher insurance rates and/or higher taxes.

And that doesn’t include the subsidies we pay tobacco farmers.

Or the subsidies they pay their political shills.

28 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:05:03pm

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah that’s one of the things I hate the most about these folks. They come up with all of these names that sound official, scientific and fair. From the title you would wonder, how could anyone argue with that? It is a lie from the very start designed to pull people in - to their own harm.

Of course, if they actually advanced sound science, they would be telling you how terrible cigarettes are for you. Of course if they had any conscience whatsoever, any honor, any morality, they would tell the truth about the science.

The Advancement of Sound Science Center (TASSC), formerly the Advancement of Sound Science Coalition, is an industry-funded lobby group which promotes the idea that environmental science on issues including smoking, pesticides and global warming is “junk science”, which should be replaced by “sound science”. It is operated by Steven Milloy from his home in Potomac, Maryland.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

29 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:05:51pm

I just had my dog Penny euthanized, it was peaceful. She just stopped breathing and that was it. The cancer moved incredibly fast, all but destroyed her lungs in just a couple of months. It got to the point where she was just barely getting enough oxygen into her blood to function.

Had her for 10 years, got her as an abused stray.

30 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:06:20pm

Holy shit… a connection…. ” Garrey Carruthers, former governor of New Mexico, served as chairman of TASSC.[2][3]”

31 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:06:33pm

re: #21 Walter L. Newton

So are you able to give a coherent reason why tobacco prohibition would be effective with cigarettes, and not lead to the same ill-effects we saw under alcohol Prohibition?

In both cases, we have a very highly popular product. Tobacco is less lethal and less dangerous in general than alcohol, though still clearly a large health risk.

What essential difference is there with smoking that’d make prohibition effective?

32 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:06:46pm

re: #20 Spare O’Lake

Should every activity be legal merely because some people flout the law?

Obdi, I think someone needs a map drawn.

33 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:07:12pm

re: #26 Renaissance_Man

I have, however, long noted that the climate deniers bear striking similarity to big tobacco deniers. It wasn’t so long ago that Rush Limbaugh was making the health effects of tobacco a political issue, and had people calling his show telling him how proud they were to be a smoker. Politicising matters of science, whether it be tobacco or vaccination, is a very dangerous thing, especially in this ridiculous age of media equivocation where every idiotic assertion is ‘one side of an issue’ that ‘has to be presented equally’.

That is because they are very much the same people along with the anti-evolution shills.

Watch this video:

Youtube Video
34 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:07:50pm

re: #23 Obdicut

No, but ones that are only self-harming should, in general, be legal.

I’m not sure how you arrived at the other interpretation from what I said, since I referenced prohibition.

1. Ever hear of second-hand smoke?
2. Why should a smoker’s fellow citizens be forced to subsidize the cost of the smoker’s self-inflicted illnesses?

35 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:07:50pm

re: #17 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh please,

Mann was vindicated by the National Academy. During that time multiple other groups using different methods and data sets corroborated his results.

Assuming that those fools would even care to talk evidence or science is simply beyond possible. There isn’t enough science between them to solve one of those word problems about when two trains pass each other. Even if they did have that level of sophistication, they would not look at the evidence.

Conspiracy theory, hateful racism, sexism, homophobia and denialism is their religion. That is why they were banned in the first place after all. There is no more point in arguing with them about his than there is attempting to teach algebra to a cat.

It is hard enough getting Walter to look at actual science and he’s just a cantankerous troll who isn’t any of those things.

I agree with everything except calling Walter a troll, but we’ve had that discussion. It’s a point on which you and I don’t agree, but thankfully we both agree on the need to fight bad science before it kills people.

36 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:07:53pm

re: #28 Walter L. Newton

The Advancement of Sound Science Center (TASSC), formerly the Advancement of Sound Science Coalition, is an industry-funded lobby group which promotes the idea that environmental science on issues including smoking, pesticides and global warming is “junk science”, which should be replaced by “sound science”. It is operated by Steven Milloy from his home in Potomac, Maryland.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

No shit? Really? You are a twit.

37 Racer X  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:08:19pm

re: #7 Walter L. Newton

I support people’s right to smoke because it’s legal. I would love to see it made illegal.

I agree.

Kinda fucking hypocritical of people to go after mundane crap like soda and salt when cigarette smoking has killed millions.

38 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:08:24pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

I just had my dog Penny euthanized, it was peaceful. She just stopped breathing and that was it. The cancer moved incredibly fast, all but destroyed her lungs in just a couple of months. It got to the point where she was just barely getting enough oxygen into her blood to function.

Had her for 10 years, got her as an abused stray.

WHY, WHY YOU DO PEOPLE INSIST ON MAKING ME CRY?

39 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:08:25pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

So sorry to hear that. Treat yourself well.

I’ve never had the heart to get another dog since the dog I had as a kid passed.

40 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:08:25pm

re: #25 researchok

Don’t forget- we pay for the treatment of people harmed by tobacco in the form of higher insurance rates and/or higher taxes.

And that doesn’t include the subsidies we pay tobacco farmers.

so true. and if you want to get a little dirtier, it’s not exactly a ringing endorsement of additional government subsidy of healthcare…smoke if ya got ‘em, but asking me to chip in for your radiation treatment? uncool.

41 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:10:04pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

I just had my dog Penny euthanized, it was peaceful. She just stopped breathing and that was it. The cancer moved incredibly fast, all but destroyed her lungs in just a couple of months. It got to the point where she was just barely getting enough oxygen into her blood to function.

Had her for 10 years, got her as an abused stray.

Damn. I am sorry.

42 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:10:05pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

No shit? Really? You are a twit.

Ludwig… are you fucking completely out of you mind? Charles whole thread here is about this organization. AceofWhat was curious about the connection of Malkin and the Tobacco industry. Charles reiterated the connect.. AND I LINK TO FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT THIS STUPID ASS GROUP…

and you’re fucking yelling at me for that?

43 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:10:06pm

re: #37 Racer X

I agree.

Kinda fucking hypocritical of people to go after mundane crap like soda and salt when cigarette smoking has killed millions.

oh SNAP

44 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:10:15pm

Evening lizards. I have been tobacco free for 4 weeks after 27 years of smoking. I did it cold turkey and have not cheated once.

:)

45 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:10:47pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

That’s hard. Be well. She isn’t in any more pain.
((GDF))

46 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:10:52pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

No shit? Really? You are a twit.

Why am I a twit?

47 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:11:06pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

No shit? Really? You are a twit.

Ludwig, i asked for help. I appreciate the additional information. Do i need to apologize for not knowing who this group was?

48 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:11:07pm

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards. I have been tobacco free for 4 weeks after 27 years of smoking. I did it cold turkey and have not cheated once.

:)

Congrats!

49 Racer X  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:11:10pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

No shit? Really? You are a twit.

May I ask why you resort to name calling at the drop of a hat?

50 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:11:26pm

re: #34 Spare O’Lake

1. Ever hear of second-hand smoke?

Yes, and I have no problems about restricting smoking in public spaces, workplaces, etc.


2. Why should a smoker’s fellow citizens be forced to subsidize the cost of the smoker’s self-inflicted illnesses?

You could ask this about any risky behavior, though, including promiscuous sex and riding a bike. It turns into a rather complex calculus quickly, and I don’t see where that gets us.

I’m more asking, though, why anyone thinks prohibition is possible. Smoking is a terrible thing, the worst fucking decision of my life, and a part of me would love to see it made illegal. I don’t, however, want to let my emotions overrule pragmatism, if making it illegal would have overly negative consequences and not actually achieve its goals in the first place.

51 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:11:28pm

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

CONGRATULATIONS!
Keep it up!

52 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:11:30pm

re: #37 Racer X

I agree.

Kinda fucking hypocritical of people to go after mundane crap like soda and salt when cigarette smoking has killed millions.

Right. Diabetes and hypertension never hurt ANYONE. 9_9

53 Mark Pennington  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:11:47pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

I just had my dog Penny euthanized, it was peaceful. She just stopped breathing and that was it. The cancer moved incredibly fast, all but destroyed her lungs in just a couple of months. It got to the point where she was just barely getting enough oxygen into her blood to function.

Had her for 10 years, got her as an abused stray.

So very sorry to hear that. Dogs are family too. :(

54 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:12:00pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

No shit? Really? You are a twit.

Wlater posted a link supporting your position against bad science shills and you insulted him. What gives?

55 researchok  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:12:24pm

re: #40 Aceofwhat?

so true. and if you want to get a little dirtier, it’s not exactly a ringing endorsement of additional government subsidy of healthcare…smoke if ya got ‘em, but asking me to chip in for your radiation treatment? uncool.

Well, there’s more.

Kids can suffer health problems from second hand smoke in both the immediate and long term.

Children of smokers score lower on tests and that can influence the entire education experience and their future economic capacity. The unintended circumstances go on and on.

56 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:12:45pm

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards. I have been tobacco free for 4 weeks after 27 years of smoking. I did it cold turkey and have not cheated once.

:)

Well done!

57 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:12:49pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude. Chill. He’s on your side.

58 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:12:50pm

re: #49 Racer X

May I ask why you resort to name calling at the drop of a hat?

Why would he even call me a name? This article is about Malkin and The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC). Charles mentioned The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC). AceofWhat asked what it was all about and I link to a Wiki about The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC).

And Ludwig calls me a twit. Ludwig… you have shit for brains.

59 cliffster  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:13:09pm

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards. I have been tobacco free for 4 weeks after 27 years of smoking. I did it cold turkey and have not cheated once.

:)

Sweet!. High Five!

60 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:13:09pm

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

You’re over the hump, dude! Keep on going!

Have you gotten to the part where you cough up the tar that’s been in your lungs for awhile? That bits fun. It’s when the cells in your lungs regrow the cilia that they lost when they became squamous, and are able to clean the crap out again.

61 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:13:14pm

re: #54 Dark_Falcon

Walter posted a link supporting your position against bad science shills and you insulted him. What gives?

PIMF

62 Mark Pennington  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:13:22pm

re: #5 Dante41

Dear God, does she have no shame?

No. She writes the most vile blog on the internet.

63 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:13:29pm

re: #5 Dante41

Dear God, does she have no shame?

Well, I didn’t realize she had been around that long, but I suppose I would first ask if she has changed her mind on this issue…

64 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:13:56pm

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah that’s one of the things I hate the most about these folks. They come up with all of these names that sound official, scientific and fair. From the title you would wonder, how could anyone argue with that? It is a lie from the very start designed to pull people in - to their own harm.

Of course, if they actually advanced sound science, they would be telling you how terrible cigarettes are for you. Of course if they had any conscience whatsoever, any honor, any morality, they would tell the truth about the science.

IIRC their MO was to hire real scientists to discredit the science.
You know…bought and sold science whores.

65 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:13:59pm

re: #42 Walter L. Newton

What? You responded to my 24, in your post 28 as if I didn’t know who they were. I thought you were being your normal prattling self trying to look important.

re: #49 Racer X

May I ask why you resort to name calling at the drop of a hat?

Ummm because he has proven time and again that he is an obnoxious twit.

66 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:14:11pm

re: #20 Spare O’Lake

Should every activity be legal merely because some people flout the law?

Uhhh there’s a lot more to argument than just people flouting the law

67 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:14:13pm

re: #62 beekiller

No. She writes the most vile blog on the internet.

You have obviously have never perused WRH.

68 mich-again  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:14:13pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank
Sorry about your loss. I know the empty feeling of saying so long to an old friend like that.

As for the linked article, when I read what Malkin wrote in that scanned newspaper column, it looked like a garden variety of climate change denial talking points. I didn’t see the part about shilling for big tobacco.

69 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:14:14pm

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards. I have been tobacco free for 4 weeks after 27 years of smoking. I did it cold turkey and have not cheated once.

:)

that’s incredible

70 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:14:16pm

re: #47 Aceofwhat?

Ludwig, i asked for help. I appreciate the additional information. Do i need to apologize for not knowing who this group was?

Dude he was responding to me.

71 Racer X  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:14:19pm

re: #52 bratwurst

Right. Diabetes and hypertension never hurt ANYONE. 9_9

*looks in pockets*

Nope. I never said anything remotely like that.

I’m just saying why do people (government) want to ban soda and salt, yet tobacco gets a pass? It seems hypocritical.

Doesn’t it?

72 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:14:27pm

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

Don’t fling insults in reprisal, Walter. That just gets the flame war started and makes the stalkers laugh at us. Keep your cool.

73 cliffster  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:15:06pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

I’m sorry to hear that. Cherish the 10 good years.

74 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:15:09pm

re: #57 Dante41

Dude. Chill. He’s on your side.

There is a history there but you are correct.

75 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:15:14pm

re: #60 Obdicut

You’re over the hump, dude! Keep on going!

Have you gotten to the part where you cough up the tar that’s been in your lungs for awhile? That bits fun. It’s when the cells in your lungs regrow the cilia that they lost when they became squamous, and are able to clean the crap out again.

Yikes! I haven’t had the pleasure of that yet. I’ve had a few episodes where I really want one but I just chew another piece of gum and it goes away.

76 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:16:22pm

re: #54 Dark_Falcon

Wlater posted a link supporting your position against bad science shills and you insulted him. What gives?

Its Walter Versus Quixote

Round two, FIGHT!

77 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:16:23pm

re: #64 Spare O’Lake

IIRC their MO was to hire real scientists to discredit the science.
You know…bought and sold science whores.

Stietz for was the founder of tat idea, but yes that was the original plan. Then those who were “scientists” went further and further down hill.

78 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:16:42pm

re: #74 LudwigVanQuixote

There is a history there but you are correct.

Good. The Frontline special is on right now. Are you watching?

79 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:16:47pm

re: #65 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

Both of you are still mad over the flame war from earlier. Calm the frak down. This is an entirely different topic, one on which both of you agree. Step back, take a deep breath, and have a beer.

80 Racer X  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:17:02pm

re: #74 LudwigVanQuixote

There is a history there but you are correct.

Dude. Chill.

I can’t even remember half the people I got into a spat with in the past month. Seriously. Let it go. Start each thread fresh. You may find common ground with those you disagree with on some other subject.

81 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:17:24pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Don’t fling insults in reprisal, Walter. That just gets the flame war started and makes the stalkers laugh at us. Keep your cool.

No… Ludwig makes the stalkers laugh at us. When you finally realize that, you won’t be so apt to kiss up to him every time he opens his mouth. I was supporting this thread and the subject matter and I’m not playing pasty to the bullshit when some one hits me with it.

82 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:17:37pm

Anyway, Frank I really am so sorry to hear that. I can’t imagine how much that sucks.

83 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:17:46pm

re: #71 Racer X

*looks in pockets*

Nope. I never said anything remotely like that.

I’m just saying why do people (government) want to ban soda and salt, yet tobacco gets a pass? It seems hypocritical.

Doesn’t it?

absolutely

84 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:18:06pm

re: #79 Dante41

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

Both of you are still mad over the flame war from earlier. Calm the frak down. This is an entirely different topic, one on which both of you agree. Step back, take a deep breath, and have a beer.

I’m not mad at anything. I simply linked to further info about this group.

85 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:18:08pm

re: #75 NJDhockeyfan

Don’t worry about it. It’s only like having a small cold, but it’s a sign that your lungs have actually regrown the damaged cells, and that’s really cool.

I’ve been quit for four years now. Best of luck, you obviously have the willpower to stay quit!

86 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:18:32pm

re: #50 Obdicut

You could ask this about any risky behavior, though, including promiscuous sex and riding a bike. It turns into a rather complex calculus quickly, and I don’t see where that gets us.

I’m more asking, though, why anyone thinks prohibition is possible. Smoking is a terrible thing, the worst fucking decision of my life, and a part of me would love to see it made illegal. I don’t, however, want to let my emotions overrule pragmatism, if making it illegal would have overly negative consequences and not actually achieve its goals in the first place.

It would “stem” the tide. Most would comply and the rest could be fined with the money used to educate others about the risks.

87 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:18:36pm

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

And Ludwig calls me a twit. Ludwig… you have shit for brains.

We all know Ludwig has a list of words as abbreviations for arguments, when he is feeling lazy and has a brain fart, but that’s no reason to say he has shit for brains…

88 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:18:38pm

re: #81 Walter L. Newton

No… Ludwig makes the stalkers laugh at us. When you finally realize that, you won’t be so apt to kiss up to him every time he opens his mouth. I was supporting this thread and the subject matter and I’m not playing pasty to the bullshit when some one hits me with it.

Walter, trust me, the stalkers laugh at you as well.

Though not as much, because you rarely say anything relevant.

89 Mark Pennington  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:18:46pm

re: #67 Dante41

You have obviously have never perused WRH.

Obviously not. What site is that? If it is worse than Malkin…I’m afraid to look.

90 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:19:00pm

re: #86 Spare O’Lake

It would “stem” the tide. Most would comply and the rest could be fined with the money used to educate others about the risks.

Do you know anything about the history of alcohol Prohibition in the USA?

91 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:19:08pm

I’m watching Buck Privates right now. What a fucking classic!

92 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:19:12pm

re: #87 Naso Tang

We all know Ludwig has a list of words as abbreviations for arguments, when he is feeling lazy and has a brain fart, but that’s no reason to say he has shit for brains…

Try me.

93 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:19:12pm

re: #70 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude he was responding to me.

i believe you are both the only person who noticed that and the only person who cared.

want a gin and tonic? i’m pouring one for myself…

94 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:19:22pm

re: #66 WindUpBird

Uhhh there’s a lot more to argument than just people flouting the law

Uhhh bring it.

95 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:19:26pm

re: #71 Racer X

*looks in pockets*

Nope. I never said anything remotely like that.

I’m just saying why do people (government) want to ban soda and salt, yet tobacco gets a pass? It seems hypocritical.

Doesn’t it?

Link to proposed “bans” on soda and salt?

I am not at all happy with the way a deadly product like tobacco is subsidized and then taxed like crazy. However, this takes nothing away from the reality that the obesity epidemic in this country threatens to make the impact of smoking-related illness look like a pink eye outbreak.

96 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:19:30pm

re: #81 Walter L. Newton

No… Ludwig makes the stalkers laugh at us. When you finally realize that, you won’t be so apt to kiss up to him every time he opens his mouth. I was supporting this thread and the subject matter and I’m not playing pasty to the bullshit when some one hits me with it.

I did downding him and call him out for the insult. I’m on your side on this one, but he’s dropping it. On this matter, and likely on vaccines, we all agree. So let us stand together against the shills and loons who cause death in their folly.

97 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:19:39pm

re: #87 Naso Tang

We all know Ludwig has a list of words as abbreviations for arguments, when he is feeling lazy and has a brain fart, but that’s no reason to say he has shit for brains…

Yes but I only use those abbreviations after the long typed out arguments and all the evidence for them was repeatedly not processed.

98 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:20:18pm

re: #93 Aceofwhat?

i believe you are both the only person who noticed that and the only person who cared.

want a gin and tonic? i’m pouring one for myself…

Dude that’s fine Walter is not worth it.

99 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:20:49pm

re: #96 Dark_Falcon

I did downding him and call him out for the insult. I’m on your side on this one, but he’s dropping it. On this matter, and likely on vaccines, we all agree. So let us stand together against the shills and loons who cause death in their folly.

Oh whoopee do, you down dinged him…

100 cliffster  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:21:01pm

Do some people still have a case of the mondays? It’s tuesday night, already!

101 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:21:10pm

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

Try me.

Not when you have your anti humor vest on..

102 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:21:26pm

re: #89 beekiller

Obviously not. What site is that? If it is worse than Malkin…I’m afraid to look.

What Really Happened. Truther HQ, and one of the biggest Anti-America sites on the net. If something bad happens anywhere in the world, the moron who runs it can find a way to blame Israel or America for it.

103 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:21:37pm

re: #86 Spare O’Lake

It would “stem” the tide. Most would comply and the rest could be fined with the money used to educate others about the risks.

didn’t work for alcohol…doesn’t work for pot…is this a magic prohibition?

taxing the bejesus out of it actually does work. states make the mistake of counting on the extra revenue, of course, because most state pols are nimrods. IIRC what actually happens is that smoking declines as taxes increase and revenue stays neutral (until it becomes too profitable to bootleg, in which case revenue actually decreases).

104 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:22:02pm

re: #96 Dark_Falcon

I did downding him and call him out for the insult. I’m on your side on this one, but he’s dropping it. On this matter, and likely on vaccines, we all agree. So let us stand together against the shills and loons who cause death in their folly.

Or let’s just say screw it. I for one am really tired of the way Walter likes to come in and say stupid things only to whine like a little girl when called on it. He admits himself that he enjoys being a troll and thinks he is somehow clever. I am sick of it. He contributes nothing to discussions he knows nothing about.

105 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:22:09pm

re: #100 cliffster

Do some people still have a case of the mondays? It’s tuesday night, already!

No… we have a case of the Ludwig again.

106 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:22:17pm

re: #99 Walter L. Newton

Oh whoopee do, you down dinged him…

heh

107 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:22:29pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

I just had my dog Penny euthanized, it was peaceful. She just stopped breathing and that was it. The cancer moved incredibly fast, all but destroyed her lungs in just a couple of months. It got to the point where she was just barely getting enough oxygen into her blood to function.

Had her for 10 years, got her as an abused stray.

My condolences.

I put my dog down a couple months ago. She almost made it to 15. I got her from the SPCA when she was 6 weeks old and she was a great dog.

108 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:22:35pm

re: #97 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes but I only use those abbreviations after the long typed out arguments and all the evidence for them was repeatedly not processed.

That is your opinion, obviously.

109 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:22:36pm

re: #95 bratwurst

Link to proposed “bans” on soda and salt?

I am not at all happy with the way a deadly product like tobacco is subsidized and then taxed like crazy. However, this takes nothing away from the reality that the obesity epidemic in this country threatens to make the impact of smoking-related illness look like a pink eye outbreak.

they’re in prior threads. the search fx is your friend.

and salt ≠ obesity. science is your friend.

110 mich-again  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:22:45pm

I’m not a smoker, but I enjoy an occasional Marlboro. I wish they’d sell them in packs of 3 or even individual cigarrettes. I think if the states allowed that, it could help some people quit easier. As it is, if you get an occasional hankering for a smoke, you have to buy a pack of 20, and once you do that, well you’re gonna smoke em if you got em even if it takes a week. Just a thought.

111 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:22:50pm

re: #105 Walter L. Newton

No… we have a case of the Ludwig again.

No we have a case of you. Projection there baby and to prove it, I am actually going to sign off and get some work done.

112 Racer X  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:22:51pm

re: #95 bratwurst

Link to proposed “bans” on soda and salt?

I am not at all happy with the way a deadly product like tobacco is subsidized and then taxed like crazy. However, this takes nothing away from the reality that the obesity epidemic in this country threatens to make the impact of smoking-related illness look like a pink eye outbreak.

Seriously? You’ve never heard of recent attempts to restrict / ban soda or salt?

There are many people who can and do enjoy soda and or salt in moderation with no ill effects at all. I cannot say the same about tobacco.

113 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:23:10pm

re: #111 LudwigVanQuixote

No we have a case of you. Projection there baby and to prove it, I am actually going to sign off and get some work done.

Fucking prayers answered.

114 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:23:22pm

re: #98 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude that’s fine Walter is not worth it.

WOULD YOU PLEASE FUCKING DROP IT ALREADY!!

/Sorry to shout, but I’m really sick of this flame war.

115 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:23:36pm

re: #112 Racer X

Well, I’d note there’s a big difference between restricting the amount of salt in prepackaged foods and banning salt.

116 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:23:42pm

re: #109 Aceofwhat?

they’re in prior threads. the search fx is your friend.

and salt ≠ obesity. science is your friend.

At least I am among friends.

117 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:24:15pm

Look, the makers of processed food KNOW when they are putting something bad in the food. Partially hydrogenated vegetable oil has to be made in a lab.

If I thought it would work this way, I would say to tax the cigarettes, and the unhealthy food and drink, and put the money into Medicaid and Medicare to pay for the expenses that will be incurred later on, making things more fair for people who eat…um…homemade bread with goat cheese and roasted garlic.

However, I’m fully aware that the money would get siphoned off into a “good cause,” and we will all get equally charged more for the health care anyway.

118 windsagio  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:24:30pm

re: #114 Dark_Falcon

DF, I might respectfully suggest that they’re both getting their needs met by fighting. You’re not gonna get them to stop, unless Charles steps in.

Why get yourself upset over it?>

119 Racer X  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:24:40pm

re: #115 Obdicut

Well, I’d note there’s a big difference between restricting the amount of salt in prepackaged foods and banning salt.

True.

120 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:24:47pm

re: #115 Obdicut

Well, I’d note there’s a big difference between restricting the amount of salt in prepackaged foods and banning salt.

Question… and I really don’t know the answer. Aren’t there some states (or cities) that are considering banning salt altogether, I mean even salt shakers on a table in a eatery?

121 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:25:23pm

re: #80 Racer X

Dude. Chill.

I can’t even remember half the people I got into a spat with in the past month. Seriously. Let it go. Start each thread fresh. You may find common ground with those you disagree with on some other subject.

The sun will come up tomorrow,
Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow…

122 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:25:24pm

re: #98 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude that’s fine Walter is not worth it.

…but i make a mean gin and tonic…

123 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:25:50pm

re: #120 Walter L. Newton

I have this image of me with my travel salt in my purse.

I actually have slightly too-low blood pressure.

124 Racer X  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:25:51pm

I feel stupider.

Gonna log off for a while.

;-)

125 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:25:54pm

re: #120 Walter L. Newton

Question… and I really don’t know the answer. Aren’t there some states (or cities) that are considering banning salt altogether, I mean even salt shakers on a table in a eatery?

Fucking socialists!

126 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:25:55pm

re: #120 Walter L. Newton

Not unless you can provide proof of that, no, I haven’t heard that at all.

Now, again:

Why do you think prohibition against cigarettes would be effective, in the face of historical evidence on alcohol and present-day evidence on marijuana?

127 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:26:15pm

re: #121 Spare O’Lake

The sun will come up tomorrow,
Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow…

LOL… We can sing it together… for Racer X and DK… ready…

128 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:26:28pm

re: #110 mich-again

I’m not a smoker, but I enjoy an occasional Marlboro. I wish they’d sell them in packs of 3 or even individual cigarrettes. I think if the states allowed that, it could help some people quit easier. As it is, if you get an occasional hankering for a smoke, you have to buy a pack of 20, and once you do that, well you’re gonna smoke em if you got em even if it takes a week. Just a thought.

same here.

129 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:26:59pm

re: #112 Racer X

Seriously? You’ve never heard of recent attempts to restrict / ban soda or salt?

There are many people who can and do enjoy soda and or salt in moderation with no ill effects at all. I cannot say the same about tobacco.

Restrict/add tax, yes. Ban, no.

130 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:27:23pm

re: #122 Aceofwhat?

…but i make a mean gin and tonic…

How?

131 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:27:24pm

re: #123 EmmmieG

I have this image of me with my travel salt in my purse.

I actually have slightly too-low blood pressure.

me too! fainted every time i gave blood, until they banned folks who’d been in Europe during certain periods (cow diseases…can’t have that).

132 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:27:46pm

re: #126 Obdicut

Not unless you can provide proof of that, no, I haven’t heard that at all.

Now, again:

Why do you think prohibition against cigarettes would be effective, in the face of historical evidence on alcohol and present-day evidence on marijuana?

Yep. If it saves one life… it’s worth it.

133 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:27:48pm

re: #130 Bagua

How?

lots of ice
lots of gin
a little tonic
a big lime wedge

sublime….

134 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:28:03pm

re: #131 Aceofwhat?

Hah. Me too. It’s a pity, too, because I’ll do anything for a sugar cookie and a small cup of fruit juice.

135 cliffster  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:28:15pm

why are mutherfuckers always trying to tell other mutherfuckers what to do with their lives?

136 mich-again  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:28:37pm

Is it the salt that causes obesity, or is it the person who orders the supersized fries and double cheeseburger every day for lunch was going to be fat anyway and the salt is more of an effect than a cause.

137 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:28:54pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

Yep. If it saves one life… it’s worth it.

But what if it kills 20 for every 1 saved? By this I mean the actions of organized crime.

138 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:29:25pm

re: #118 windsagio

DF, I might respectfully suggest that they’re both getting their needs met by fighting. You’re not gonna get them to stop, unless Charles steps in.

Why get yourself upset over it?>

Hey Windy, I asked you a question earlier today and you never answered. Have you come across anything new in hot red pumps?

139 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:29:26pm

re: #112 Racer X

Seriously? You’ve never heard of recent attempts to restrict / ban soda or salt?

There are many people who can and do enjoy soda and or salt in moderation with no ill effects at all. I cannot say the same about tobacco.

My grandparents smoked Chesterfield unfiltered and lived into their 70s. They died of old age, no smoking related health issues popped up that I recall.

140 Mark Pennington  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:29:41pm

re: #102 Dante41

What Really Happened. Truther HQ, and one of the biggest Anti-America sites on the net. If something bad happens anywhere in the world, the moron who runs it can find a way to blame Israel or America for it.

I’ll take your word for it and not go there. Her site makes me feel creepy and dirty anytime I go there. Morbid, sick curiosity.

141 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:29:47pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

Yep. If it saves one life… it’s worth it.

Well, that’s a deeply foolish position that doesn’t examine the situation in any degree of complexity at all. The logical outgrowth of that would be to ban anything that causes even one death.

Feel free to support your ridiculous position in any way, but history and the present times both indicate it’s a completely unworkable and naive one.

142 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:29:48pm

re: #115 Obdicut

Well, I’d note there’s a big difference between restricting the amount of salt in prepackaged foods and banning salt.

sure, but which foods? ever try unsalted sunflower seeds? disgusting.

i lack the faith in politicians to reduce the sodium in only those foods i don’t hanker for on a lazy saturday…

143 windsagio  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:30:22pm

re: #138 Walter L. Newton

Oh haha; I don’t dress up that way, doesn’t look good on me >>

144 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:30:36pm

re: #139 NJDhockeyfan

My grandparents smoked Chesterfield unfiltered and lived into their 70s. They died of old age, no smoking related health issues popped up that I recall.

That puts that subject to be. Enjoy your smokes. I was wondering when someone was going to drag out that time worn example.

145 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:30:55pm

re: #142 Aceofwhat?

I actually like toasted, unsalted sunflower seeds, especially with lavender or bergamot oil.

146 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:31:04pm

re: #136 mich-again

Is it the salt that causes obesity, or is it the person who orders the supersized fries and double cheeseburger every day for lunch was going to be fat anyway and the salt is more of an effect than a cause.

it doesn’t cause obesity. it can certainly have a detrimental effect on someone with hypertension, and it can lead to hypertension in a small percentage of the population.

the rest of us can do whatever we want WRT sodium.

147 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:31:20pm

re: #141 Obdicut

Well, that’s a deeply foolish position that doesn’t examine the situation in any degree of complexity at all. The logical outgrowth of that would be to ban anything that causes even one death.

Feel free to support your ridiculous position in any way, but history and the present times both indicate it’s a completely unworkable and naive one.

Well, you asked. I gave you an answer just to fluff you off.

148 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:31:29pm

re: #140 beekiller

I’ll take your word for it and not go there. Her site makes me feel creepy and dirty anytime I go there. Morbid, sick curiosity.

Yeah. This one will just make you feel enraged. The things that son of a bitch writes are some of the most vile pieces of pure stupidity I have ever seen.

149 cliffster  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:31:30pm

C’mon, Spurs.. WTF??

150 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:31:39pm

re: #147 Walter L. Newton

Well, you asked. I gave you an answer just to fluff you off.

That’s nice, Walter.

151 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:31:58pm

re: #133 Aceofwhat?

lots of ice
lots of gin
a little tonic
a big lime wedge

sublime…

Fascinating.

I use a big glass with ice made from distilled water, a variable amount of tonic to thirst, and a squeeze from a decapitated lemon. Oh, and cheap London Gin.

its wonderful, but I’ll try your recipe next.

152 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:32:01pm

re: #150 Obdicut

That’s nice, Walter.

Oh, don’t you start this.

153 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:32:11pm

re: #145 Obdicut

I actually like toasted, unsalted sunflower seeds, especially with lavender or bergamot oil.

ugh.

i go through large amounts of toasted, salted seeds when i’m in the mood. unsalted just doesn’t seem right.

but you’re a gin person, so you can’t be all bad/

154 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:32:25pm

re: #90 Obdicut

Do you know anything about the history of alcohol Prohibition in the USA?

Alcohol is way different than nicotine. It’s an absolutely indispensable drug…you don’t want a bunch of sober folks sitting around and staring at eachother, do you?

155 albusteve  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:32:48pm

re: #114 Dark_Falcon

WOULD YOU PLEASE FUCKING DROP IT ALREADY!!

/Sorry to shout, but I’m really sick of this flame war.

it just got started…have some patience

156 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:33:57pm

re: #136 mich-again

Is it the salt that causes obesity, or is it the person who orders the supersized fries and double cheeseburger every day for lunch was going to be fat anyway and the salt is more of an effect than a cause.

Despite what a poster above thinks, I never suggested salt causes obesity. It does, however, lead to hypertension. This is a MAJOR health problem, whether it is accompanied by obesity or not.

157 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:34:10pm

I think I’m getting it now. If anyone wants a new thread, incite Ludwig and Walter to throw some insults and voila, Charles posts another comic.

158 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:34:15pm

re: #118 windsagio

DF, I might respectfully suggest that they’re both getting their needs met by fighting. You’re not gonna get them to stop, unless Charles steps in.

Why get yourself upset over it?>

because he’s a good dude. don’t look a gift voice of civility in the mouth;)

159 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:34:20pm

re: #153 Aceofwhat?

Seriously, get some bergamot oil, apply it very sparingly to the seeds, toast them up, and see if you like them.

I have very weird tastes, so this may be terrible for you, but who knows, maybe you’ll find them as delicious as I do like that.

Maybe.

160 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:34:33pm

re: #95 bratwurst

Link to proposed “bans” on soda and salt?

I am not at all happy with the way a deadly product like tobacco is subsidized and then taxed like crazy. However, this takes nothing away from the reality that the obesity epidemic in this country threatens to make the impact of smoking-related illness look like a pink eye outbreak.

Health concerns about excess sugar and salt have a place. Certainly the obesity and general nutrition in the US is incredibly bad and the health and financial effects of that are horrible.

But the impact of tobacco on the health of the human race worldwide is a holocaust of unimaginable proportions. The death toll of tobacco in the last century is horrifying. The death toll in this coming century will be worse. The Black Death killed somewhere around 150-200 million people. There are currently about 1 billion smokers in the world. By 2025, there will be about 1.6 billion. About 1 in 12 people in the world today will die from tobacco.

I know that prohibition rarely works especially well; but - holy crap. I know that tobacco is a significant part of the economy of many places worldwide, but good lord, the untold havoc it wreaks on human lives and the rest of the economy.

161 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:34:49pm

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards. I have been tobacco free for 4 weeks after 27 years of smoking. I did it cold turkey and have not cheated once.

:)

Cold turkey is the only way to go.

162 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:35:13pm

re: #154 Spare O’Lake

Alcohol is way different than nicotine. It’s an absolutely indispensable drug…you don’t want a bunch of sober folks sitting around and staring at eachother, do you?

I’m sorry, do you know anything about the history of alcohol prohibition in the US, or not?

Can you explain how tobacco prohibition would be successful, and not lead to a large upsurge in crime?

163 mich-again  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:35:21pm

The Red Wings are up 3-1 in Phoenix in game 7. W00t. I wonder if they’ll make the Swedes and Russians on the Red Wings show their nirth certificates at the airport.

164 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:35:25pm

re: #151 Bagua

Fascinating.

I use a big glass with ice made from distilled water, a variable amount of tonic to thirst, and a squeeze from a decapitated lemon. Oh, and cheap London Gin.

its wonderful, but I’ll try your recipe next.

Look… its really simple, you want to drink, then make an effort to do it right.

A six pack of Mickeys malt and 2 pints of southern comfort, every night, Mon-Fri and then switch to at least a case of Mickeys for the weekend.

Make sure your car is loaded up with little southern comfort shooters so you have something for the road.

You hold the neck of the shooter between the crook of your first and second finger of the left hand, letting the bottle hide in the palm of the hand, and you can steer fine like that. Put the back of you hand up to your lips when you want a swig.

If you’re going to drink, do it right.

165 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:36:19pm

re: #151 Bagua

Fascinating.

I use a big glass with ice made from distilled water, a variable amount of tonic to thirst, and a squeeze from a decapitated lemon. Oh, and cheap London Gin.

its wonderful, but I’ll try your recipe next.

i’ve used lemon in a pinch but i’m stuck on lime. whether it’s acquired or actually a better fit for the gin is beyond me…

although they’ll serve you lime in a restaurant/bar if you don’t insist otherwise, as i’m sure you’ve noticed.

166 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:36:33pm

re: #142 Aceofwhat?

sure, but which foods? ever try unsalted sunflower seeds? disgusting.

I LOVE unsalted seeds, almonds etc. and would greatly appreciate being able to buy a can of soup that doesn’t contain at least 50% of the RDA of salt. Next time you are in the supermarket, take a look at the soup aisle and keep in mind that they somehow find 2 serving per can.

167 Olsonist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:36:54pm

re: #162 Obdicut

Before we ever get to tabacco prohibition (a stupid idea) we should probably try removing tabacco subsidies.

168 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:36:59pm

re: #161 b_sharp

Cold turkey is the only way to go.

That right. Five years ago, I stop drinking cold turkey. Almost three years ago I stopped smoking (3 packs a day for 30 years) cold turkey. It’s not easy, but it’s the best way.

169 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:37:28pm

re: #65 LudwigVanQuixote

What? You responded to my 24, in your post 28 as if I didn’t know who they were. I thought you were being your normal prattling self trying to look important.

re: #49 Racer X

Ummm because he has proven time and again that he is an obnoxious twit.

I think you over reacted to Walter that time LVQ.

170 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:37:42pm

re: #159 Obdicut

Seriously, get some bergamot oil, apply it very sparingly to the seeds, toast them up, and see if you like them.

I have very weird tastes, so this may be terrible for you, but who knows, maybe you’ll find them as delicious as I do like that.

Maybe.

you like gin. that’s enough for me to give this a shot-

171 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:38:14pm

re: #167 Olsonist

Before we ever get to tabacco prohibition (a stupid idea) we should probably try removing tabacco subsidies.

But that would hurt the American farmers who have devoted their lives to harvesting a crop that kills the people who consume it!

172 albusteve  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:38:34pm

re: #160 Renaissance_Man

Health concerns about excess sugar and salt have a place. Certainly the obesity and general nutrition in the US is incredibly bad and the health and financial effects of that are horrible.

But the impact of tobacco on the health of the human race worldwide is a holocaust of unimaginable proportions. The death toll of tobacco in the last century is horrifying. The death toll in this coming century will be worse. The Black Death killed somewhere around 150-200 million people. There are currently about 1 billion smokers in the world. By 2025, there will be about 1.6 billion. About 1 in 12 people in the world today will die from tobacco.

I know that prohibition rarely works especially well; but - holy crap. I know that tobacco is a significant part of the economy of many places worldwide, but good lord, the untold havoc it wreaks on human lives and the rest of the economy.

so what…ya gotta go sometime…OTOH simply deny health care to smokers and watch them flock to the patches

173 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:38:52pm

re: #161 b_sharp

Cold turkey is the only way to go.

Agreed. I tried years ago with the nasty Nicoret gum. I figure if I can’t do it cold turkey, the gum or patch isn’t going to matter.

174 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:39:40pm

re: #103 Aceofwhat?

didn’t work for alcohol…doesn’t work for pot…is this a magic prohibition?

taxing the bejesus out of it actually does work. states make the mistake of counting on the extra revenue, of course, because most state pols are nimrods. IIRC what actually happens is that smoking declines as taxes increase and revenue stays neutral (until it becomes too profitable to bootleg, in which case revenue actually decreases).

If even 50% complied it would be worth it. Trillions in health care costs would be saved and human misery reduced.
I am not in favour of big brother, but would make an exception on this one.

175 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:39:44pm

re: #165 Aceofwhat?

i’ve used lemon in a pinch but i’m stuck on lime. whether it’s acquired or actually a better fit for the gin is beyond me…

although they’ll serve you lime in a restaurant/bar if you don’t insist otherwise, as i’m sure you’ve noticed.

I’m going to try lime next tomorrow, in the interest of Science!

176 mich-again  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:39:45pm

re: #164 Walter L. Newton

and then switch to at least a case of Mickeys for the weekend.

Thats some high dollar stuff right there. The Camo Ice 9.0 is the epitome of that genre of swill.

177 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:40:28pm

re: #166 bratwurst

I LOVE unsalted seeds, almonds etc. and would greatly appreciate being able to buy a can of soup that doesn’t contain at least 50% of the RDA of salt. Next time you are in the supermarket, take a look at the soup aisle and keep in mind that they somehow find 2 serving per can.

Campbell’s has a whole line of low-sodium soups out…

I respect your love for unsalted seeds and would greatly appreciate idiot politicians not banning mine…

(disclosure: i have no idea whether sunflower seeds would fall under such a proposal, but i have this oddly dim view of the scientific chops of your average representative…just using it as an example of a high-salt food that i can’t recreate with table salt)

178 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:40:57pm

re: #176 mich-again

Thats some high dollar stuff right there. The Camo Ice 9.0 is the epitome of that genre of swill.

No… it’s not high dollar at all… and it packs a better punch than beer… that’s why I drank it…

179 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:41:02pm

re: #167 Olsonist

Before we ever get to tabacco prohibition (a stupid idea) we should probably try removing tabacco subsidies.

Concur.

180 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:42:07pm

re: #81 Walter L. Newton

No… Ludwig makes the stalkers laugh at us. When you finally realize that, you won’t be so apt to kiss up to him every time he opens his mouth.

This is just petulant bullshit Walter.

“I was supporting this thread and the subject matter and I’m not playing pasty to the bullshit when some one hits me with it.

This was justified.

181 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:43:24pm

re: #180 b_sharp

This was justified.

Good critique… ever think of doing that for a living?

182 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:45:18pm

Well, lizards. I’ve got to go to bed now. Heres to hoping I’ll be able to drive back to school tomorrow.

183 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:45:22pm

re: #174 Spare O’Lake

If even 50% complied it would be worth it. Trillions in health care costs would be saved and human misery reduced.
I am not in favour of big brother, but would make an exception on this one.

Sorry. That’s big brother. Lots of people smoke cigars and pipes in moderation. Couldn’t we focus instead on not subsidizing the health care of certain conditions if the patient is a smoker?

184 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:46:18pm

re: #177 Aceofwhat?

Campbell’s has a whole line of low-sodium soups out…

And they are “low sodium” because they contain 35-50% of the RDA of salt per can instead of the 70-95% of salt per can in their regular soups. Seriously, look at the soup next time you are shopping.

185 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:47:53pm

re: #162 Obdicut

I’m sorry, do you know anything about the history of alcohol prohibition in the US, or not?

Can you explain how tobacco prohibition would be successful, and not lead to a large upsurge in crime?

Tobacco is far more deadly and thus prohibition would be far more popular.
Even 50% compliance would be well worth it in health benefits and treatment savings.
Black markets would be problematic, but could be policed and would be worth the trouble.

186 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:48:10pm

re: #184 bratwurst

And they are “low sodium” because they contain 35-50% of the RDA of salt per can instead of the 70-95% of salt per can in their regular soups. Seriously, look at the soup next time you are shopping.

so one meal contains 35% of the RDA? i know. i buy it for my daughter.

you do understand that’s just fine, right?

3 meals per day…35% of the RDA per meal…catch my drift?

187 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:49:23pm

re: #186 Aceofwhat?

so one meal contains 35% of the RDA? i know. i buy it for my daughter.

you do understand that’s just fine, right?

3 meals per day…35% of the RDA per meal…catch my drift?

not saying she has soup for each meal…just saying it’s proportional…

188 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:50:13pm

re: #186 Aceofwhat?

First of all, it’s not fine for me. I have a health condition that makes it wise for me to consume LESS than the RDA of salt…catch my drift?

Second of all, think many parents serve the kids a can of this for lunch instead?

[Link: caloriecount.about.com…]

189 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:51:47pm

re: #183 Aceofwhat?

Couldn’t we focus instead on not subsidizing the health care of certain conditions if the patient is a smoker?

That would be even worse than big brother and the black markets. People with lung cancer denied treatment?
Proof of causation issues?

190 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:52:38pm

re: #185 Spare O’Lake

Tobacco is far more deadly and thus prohibition would be far more popular.
Even 50% compliance would be well worth it in health benefits and treatment savings.
Black markets would be problematic, but could be policed and would be worth the trouble.

“Black markets would be problematic, but could be policed and would be worth the trouble.”

I bet Andrew Ryan said the same thing about Bibles and Woodrow Wilson about Liquor.

191 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:54:04pm

re: #188 bratwurst

First of all, it’s not fine for me. I have a health condition that makes it wise for me to consume LESS than the RDA of salt…catch my drift?

Second of all, think many parents serve the kids a can of this for lunch instead?

[Link: caloriecount.about.com…]

So you should avoid it. Good for you for understanding that…there are other soups out there with even less sodium, right?

And exceeding the RDA is even less relevant for a kid, unless they have a very very specific condition. Kids aren’t hypertensive (well, the highly obese kids are developing some troubling symptoms early in life, but that ain’t about sodium).

192 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:55:05pm

re: #189 Spare O’Lake

That would be even worse than big brother and the black markets. People with lung cancer denied treatment?
Proof of causation issues?

I’m not following. Make a simple rule. Smokers with lung cancer pay their own way…I think i’m misunderstanding you somehow.

193 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:55:20pm

re: #190 jamesfirecat

“Black markets would be problematic, but could be policed and would be worth the trouble.”

I bet Andrew Ryan said the same thing about Bibles and Woodrow Wilson about Liquor.

Should it be legal to buy arsenic to add to your morning coffee if you happen to like the almond taste?

194 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:55:32pm

re: #190 jamesfirecat

“Black markets would be problematic, but could be policed and would be worth the trouble.”

I bet Andrew Ryan said the same thing about Bibles and Woodrow Wilson about Liquor.

gotta love life lessons from Bioshock!

195 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:56:14pm

re: #193 Spare O’Lake

Should it be legal to buy arsenic to add to your morning coffee if you happen to like the almond taste?

having an occasional good cigar is like drinking arsenic?

196 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:57:14pm

re: #192 Aceofwhat?

I’m not following. Make a simple rule. Smokers with lung cancer pay their own way…I think i’m misunderstanding you somehow.

1. How do you prove that the lung cancer was caused by the tobacco?
2. What if the person doesn’t have money to pay for their treatment?

197 Olsonist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:57:20pm

re: #183 Aceofwhat?

Sorry. That’s big brother. Lots of people smoke cigars and pipes in moderation. Couldn’t we focus instead on not subsidizing the health care of certain conditions if the patient is a smoker?

This is already being done. However, it is phrased as a discount for non-smokers rather than a tax for smokers, cuz you know, taxes are bad.

198 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:58:13pm

re: #193 Spare O’Lake

Should it be legal to buy arsenic to add to your morning coffee if you happen to like the almond taste?

Intelligence lies in being able to tell the difference between what we “should do” and what we actually can do.

199 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:58:28pm

re: #195 Aceofwhat?

having an occasional good cigar is like drinking arsenic?

My late father used to inhale cigars. He got lip cancer.

200 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:00:01pm

re: #196 Spare O’Lake

1. How do you prove that the lung cancer was caused by the tobacco?
2. What if the person doesn’t have money to pay for their treatment?

1. smokers who get lung cancer = presumed causation. don’t like it? quit smoking!!

2. Liquidate what they have. As it stands now, we’re picking up the whole tab, right? Might as well offset it with whatever assets the person has.

i haven’t really thought this through much, as i’m sure you can tell, but i already like it more than making smoking illegal.

i’m not a huge cigar fan but i know plenty of people who enjoy them responsibly. and don’t tell me you can parse those out…

201 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:00:37pm

re: #199 Spare O’Lake

My late father used to inhale cigars. He got lip cancer.

Ok.

First, i’m sorry about that. I’ll do my best to be sensitive.

Second, how frequently would you say he smoked cigars?

202 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:01:16pm

re: #197 Olsonist

This is already being done. However, it is phrased as a discount for non-smokers rather than a tax for smokers, cuz you know, taxes are bad.

You mean in the HCR bill?

With regard to private insurance, i agree with you.

203 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:01:50pm

re: #200 Aceofwhat?


i’m not a huge cigar fan but i know plenty of people who enjoy them responsibly. and don’t tell me you can parse those out…

Cigar smoking must remain legal on fishing trips and at the golf course.

204 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:01:56pm

re: #191 Aceofwhat?

So you should avoid it. Good for you for understanding that…there are other soups out there with even less sodium, right?

There are 2-3 “no added salt” soups available in the health aisle, but that is it. I used to live in a country where there was a whole aisle of tasty soups that came in around 20% of my daily intake per can. That is why I know it is possible.

And exceeding the RDA is even less relevant for a kid, unless they have a very very specific condition. Kids aren’t hypertensive (well, the highly obese kids are developing some troubling symptoms early in life, but that ain’t about sodium).

So using your “it’s proportional” argument, you wouldn’t see a problem serving your child three meals a day containing the salt of the chicken noodle soup above?

205 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:02:07pm

Cavs win!!

Suck it, Bulls.

206 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:03:42pm

re: #201 Aceofwhat?

Ok.

First, i’m sorry about that. I’ll do my best to be sensitive.

Second, how frequently would you say he smoked cigars?

Only when he didn’t have his pipe with him. He inhaled the pipe too.

207 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:06:20pm

re: #193 Spare O’Lake

Should it be legal to buy arsenic to add to your morning coffee if you happen to like the almond taste?

Arsenic has a slightly sweet taste. It is cyanide that tastes / smells like bitter almonds, but only a small percentage of the population has the ability to detect this.

… and knowing is half the battle.

208 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:07:34pm

re: #204 bratwurst

So using your “it’s proportional” argument, you wouldn’t see a problem serving your child three meals a day containing the salt of the chicken noodle soup above?

Lack of diversity is a market problem, not a regulatory problem. You aren’t really supporting sodium regulation in order to artificially create more choices for yourself, are you? That wouldn’t be cool…

And yes, kids shouldn’t live on chicken soup every day all day. I’m sorry if that sounds flippant, but it was an odd question. Let me help. A better question would have been “do i have a problem serving my child 166% of the RDA on any day she wants soup”, because the soup is 100% and the other two meals would be 33% each, on average.

No, i don’t care if my child quite occasionally has 166% of the RDA of sodium if i’m balancing her other nutrition well. It’s not even remotely a problem.

209 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:07:50pm

re: #207 goddamnedfrank

Arsenic has a slightly sweet taste. It is cyanide that tastes / smells like bitter almonds, but only a small percentage of the population has the ability to detect this.

… and knowing is half the battle.

knowledge is power!

210 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:08:46pm

re: #207 goddamnedfrank

Arsenic has a slightly sweet taste. It is cyanide that tastes / smells like bitter almonds, but only a small percentage of the population has the ability to detect this.

… and knowing is half the battle.

Heh.

211 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:09:24pm

re: #206 Spare O’Lake

Only when he didn’t have his pipe with him. He inhaled the pipe too.

Thus my ‘people who enjoy them responsibly’ caveat. My brother has about one per month, for example. I believe that there are millions of the same ilk.

212 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:09:36pm

re: #21 Walter L. Newton

If I remember correctly, there was talk over the last week that we should legalize drugs, and that would solve out border problems with the gangs. Yep, that’s the ticket, compromise our laws because some other country can’t even police it’s own citizens.

Same mentality.

It’s not that the Mexicans can’t police their own citizens. It’s that we can’t prevent our own citizens from being the largest market of illegal drug purchasers on the planet.

Everybody is just going where the money is.

213 cliffster  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:09:59pm

re: #207 goddamnedfrank

Arsenic has a slightly sweet taste. It is cyanide that tastes / smells like bitter almonds, but only a small percentage of the population has the ability to detect this.

… and knowing is half the battle.

Really? I wonder if I’m one of those people. I’m going to go find out.. I’ll be back in five minutes. Or maybe 1/0 minutes.

214 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:10:46pm

re: #213 cliffster

Really? I wonder if I’m one of those people. I’m going to go find out.. I’ll be back in five minutes. Or maybe 1/0 minutes.

either way, at least I’LL know which group you belong to//

215 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:14:15pm

re: #211 Aceofwhat?

Thus my ‘people who enjoy them responsibly’ caveat. My brother has about one per month, for example. I believe that there are millions of the same ilk.

Good luck to all who smoke. There is no safe amount. I wouldn’t wish cancer on my worst enemy.

216 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:14:23pm

re: #208 Aceofwhat?

I support sodium regulation for the same reason I support smoking bans, etc…because there is a major health crisis going on in this country that is much larger than my situation.

And you were the one who felt it necessary to equate a can of soup with one third of someone’s sodium intake originally, not me. You are obviously a concerned and informed parent. If most parents were like you, we wouldn’t have such a major health crisis on our hands. I don’t pretend to know that government regulation on salt, etc. is a potential solution. However, we are facing a situation in this country where the young generation today seems destined to be the first to have a shorter life span on average than their parents. THAT, my friend, wouldn’t be cool…

217 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:18:06pm

re: #216 bratwurst

I support sodium regulation for the same reason I support smoking bans, etc…because there is a major health crisis going on in this country that is much larger than my situation.

And you were the one who felt it necessary to equate a can of soup with one third of someone’s sodium intake originally, not me. You are obviously a concerned and informed parent. If most parents were like you, we wouldn’t have such a major health crisis on our hands. I don’t pretend to know that government regulation on salt, etc. is a potential solution. However, we are facing a situation in this country where the young generation today seems destined to be the first to have a shorter life span on average than their parents. THAT, my friend, wouldn’t be cool…

agreed. but it’s not about the sodium. regulation isn’t free…so let’s spend what limited money we have regulating things that will actually make a discernable difference to the health of the country.

at its heart, it’s not so much that i oppose any form of a sodium restriction…i oppose the utter inability to prioritize which yields such a thing.

we’re frying sardines and i’m talking tuna over here…bigger fish…

218 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:18:43pm

re: #215 Spare O’Lake

Good luck to all who smoke. There is no safe amount. I wouldn’t wish cancer on my worst enemy.

i’m happy to leave it at that-

219 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:28:08pm

re: #218 Aceofwhat?

i’m happy to leave it at that-

Quite Concur.

220 mich-again  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:42:57pm

Nothing classier in Sports than the end-of-series handshake between teams at the end of a hockey playoff series. They beat the hell out of each other for 7 games and then line up to shake hands after its over. Sweet.

Especially when your team wins. Go Wings!

221 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:47:05pm

re: #216 bratwurst

I support sodium regulation for the same reason I support smoking bans, etc…because there is a major health crisis going on in this country that is much larger than my situation.

I have endemic high blood pressure as does my Dad. We each had a hypertensive crisis at thirty-five, we regulate our sodium and diet like crazy and both of us will require multiple blood pressure meds for the rest of our lives. Neither of us ever smoked, were obese, or crammed sodium. He made doubly sure to instill these habits in me, it’s just the way we’re built. It’s true that some people are just going to get lung cancer, but there’s no such thing as second hand sodium. I get that parents are feeding their kids crap diets for socio-economic reasons, and that sucks, but I’m not sure “big NaCl” is quite the scourge that tobacco presents.

222 palomino  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:52:23pm

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards. I have been tobacco free for 4 weeks after 27 years of smoking. I did it cold turkey and have not cheated once.

:)

I’ve been smoking for 20 years, and I can’t get past 4 DAYS without a smoke.

What was the tipping point for you after 27 years?

223 Pythagoras  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 9:55:20pm

re: #168 Walter L. Newton

That right. Five years ago, I stop drinking cold turkey. Almost three years ago I stopped smoking (3 packs a day for 30 years) cold turkey. It’s not easy, but it’s the best way.

Walter, let me give you some blunt advice born of painful, tragic, personal experience.

Get a chest X-ray every 6 months and if they see a spot get a follow-up ONE month later and if it’s grown, let them biopsy and remove the WHOLE LOBE if it’s positive — even if it’s small-cell. If that’s the case and a lymph node is also positive, do all 6 waves of chemo. If it’s non-small-cell cancer (unlikely for a smoker) then you’re lucky and just do whatever they say (possibly a lumpectomy).

Beating small cell lung cancer is extremely rare but if you catch it asymptomatic, you have a chance. The odds that you will get it are very high.


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