Imagine if the Tea Party Was Black

Opinion • Views: 6,554

Let’s do a little thought experiment, shall we? Imagine if the Tea Party Was Black.

Imagine that hundreds of black protesters were to descend upon Washington DC and Northern Virginia, just a few miles from the Capitol and White House, armed with AK-47s, assorted handguns, and ammunition. And imagine that some of these protesters —the black protesters — spoke of the need for political revolution, and possibly even armed conflict in the event that laws they didn’t like were enforced by the government? Would these protesters — these black protesters with guns — be seen as brave defenders of the Second Amendment, or would they be viewed by most whites as a danger to the republic? What if they were Arab-Americans? Because, after all, that’s what happened recently when white gun enthusiasts descended upon the nation’s capital, arms in hand, and verbally announced their readiness to make war on the country’s political leaders if the need arose.

Imagine that white members of Congress, while walking to work, were surrounded by thousands of angry black people, one of whom proceeded to spit on one of those congressmen for not voting the way the black demonstrators desired. Would the protesters be seen as merely patriotic Americans voicing their opinions, or as an angry, potentially violent, and even insurrectionary mob? After all, this is what white Tea Party protesters did recently in Washington.

Imagine that a rap artist were to say, in reference to a white president: “He’s a piece of shit and I told him to suck on my machine gun.” Because that’s what rocker Ted Nugent said recently about President Obama.

Imagine that a prominent mainstream black political commentator had long employed an overt bigot as Executive Director of his organization, and that this bigot regularly participated in black separatist conferences, and once assaulted a white person while calling them by a racial slur. When that prominent black commentator and his sister — who also works for the organization — defended the bigot as a good guy who was misunderstood and “going through a tough time in his life” would anyone accept their excuse-making? Would that commentator still have a place on a mainstream network? Because that’s what happened in the real world, when Pat Buchanan employed as Executive Director of his group, America’s Cause, a blatant racist who did all these things, or at least their white equivalents: attending white separatist conferences and attacking a black woman while calling her the n-word.

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228 comments
1 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:14:48am

A bunch of us had a great time with this one on FB. A great thought experiment!

2 AK-47%  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:14:53am

Or handicapped.

3 Kruk  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:15:37am

The greatest advantage white privilege confers is being able to deny said privilege exists.

4 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:15:55am

It is rather telling what's acceptable depending on who says it.

5 AK-47%  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:17:17am

Wondered when Charles was gonna get to this, it popped up on Facebook a few days ago.

6 elizajane  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:17:38am

You'd also need a spokesperson for the BTP saying "These are just issues that Real Americans should care about. It's not about us being African American! We'd be happy if white people wanted to join our party. We'll have one speaking at our next rally, and you'll see."
And of course everybody would believe them. Right?

7 AK-47%  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:20:21am

There would be at least one white fellow with an assault rifle in attendance...

8 Kruk  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:21:01am

re: #7 ralphieboy

There would be at least one white fellow with an assault rifle in attendance...

And nooses, pitch, tar....

9 freetoken  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:21:08am

Sorta but not really off topic... The Sarah claims there is no "opportunity" for racial profiling wrt Arizona's latest law:

10 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:23:38am

Sorta... but not really off topic... at least where race is concerned...

This Is Alabama; We Speak English

[Link: www.aolnews.com...]

Appears that all the "states rights " emphasis of late is showing up in many different ways across the country. Interesting.

11 cineaste  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:23:42am

But thought experiments involve, well, thought.... Thought is a little in short supply with the Tea Baggers.

12 elizajane  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:24:58am

re: #9 freetoken

Sorta but not really off topic... The Sarah claims there is no "opportunity" for racial profiling wrt Arizona's latest law:


[Video]


But if she says it, it must be true!

13 Lidane  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:25:17am

re: #9 freetoken

Of course she does. And yet other Republicans disagree. Funny how they tend to come from states with a lot of Latinos:

14 sagehen  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:25:20am

From 1990.

15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:26:31am

Food is always on topic for me. I'm having some KILLER vegan barbecue.

I've been to three tea parties... (granted got to one as they were folding up the tents...) Was ready to jump (verbally) on anyone who had anything racist to say. I wandered around (fists clinched) for a total of 6 hours... didn't get to unload on anybody.

Didn't see any AKs either.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist... just sayin' I went looking for it and didn't find it.

The "Million Man March" was actually a beautiful thing to watch. Didn't bother me a bit.

16 Jaerik  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:26:32am

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

Appears that all the "states rights " emphasis of late is showing up in many different ways across the country. Interesting.

Jaw-dropping racism aside, it's also spectacularly stupid.

Offering license forms and other documents in multiple languages is a matter of federal law. Alabama is welcome to offer them only in English, but doing so would forfeit all federal transportation funding. Given that Alabama (indeed every Southern state) receives a great deal more federal money than they pay in taxes, such a move would be entirely ill-advised.

You would think someone running for Governor would understand this basic fact of how his state works.

17 daddiokng  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:27:24am

But the blacks aren't really natural born citizens therefore they shouldn't be allowed to bear arms, Mexicans either. Plus they really have poor judgement:

What you won’t hear, except from me, is that ‘Let the good times roll’ is an especially risky message for African-Americans. The plain fact is that they tend to possess poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups. Thus they need stricter moral guidance from society.

Steve Sailer of The American Conservative

18 Lidane  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:27:45am

re: #14 sagehen

That's an amazing record. Still in my Top 20 of all time albums after all these years.

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

This Is Alabama; We Speak English

[Link: www.aolnews.com...]

Cue Jon Stewart and his gospel choir. That guy can go get bent. =P

19 freetoken  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:27:47am

re: #13 Lidane

But Sarah can't see Mexico from Alaska, so she doesn't have to worry.

20 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:28:09am

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

Sorta... but not really off topic... at least where race is concerned...

This Is Alabama; We Speak English

[Link: www.aolnews.com...]

Appears that all the "states rights " emphasis of late is showing up in many different ways across the country. Interesting.

And that one is not our reactionary gubernatorial primary candidate.

21 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:28:11am

re: #16 Jaerik


You would think someone running for Governor would understand this basic fact of how his state works.

I suspect what the candidate knows personally (or via an aide) is much less important than how he feels the statement will play in Peoria...

22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:28:37am

re: #17 daddiokng

Wow... is that stupid.

23 Kruk  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:28:48am

re: #13 Lidane

Of course she does. And yet other Republicans disagree. Funny how they tend to come from states with a lot of Latinos:

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

They're the ones who've seen the demographic train headed towards them, and are frantically trying to get off the tracks the wingnuts seem intent on lashing the GOP to. The immigration debate has the same resonance for Latinos that Civil Rights struggle did for Blacks, and the current GOP seems intent on losing that vote for generations.

24 Lidane  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:30:42am

re: #17 daddiokng

DougJ over at Balloon Juice has a post about that. I'm still working my way through it because of all the links:

[Link: www.balloon-juice.com...]

25 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:31:08am

re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Food is always on topic for me. I'm having some KILLER vegan barbecue.

I've been to three tea parties... (granted got to one as they were folding up the tents...) Was ready to jump (verbally) on anyone who had anything racist to say. I wandered around (fists clinched) for a total of 6 hours... didn't get to unload on anybody.

Didn't see any AKs either.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist... just sayin' I went looking for it and didn't find it.

The "Million Man March" was actually a beautiful thing to watch. Didn't bother me a bit.

The Macrobiotic Wing of the TP doesn't count.

26 Kruk  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:31:28am

re: #20 Decatur Deb

And that one is not our reactionary gubernatorial primary candidate.

The sad part is no-one has a chance in the primaries unless they take these kind of positions.

27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:31:45am

re: #25 Decatur Deb

The Macrobiotic Wing of the TP doesn't count.

Sorry. Huh?

28 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:32:00am

re: #18 Lidane

That's an amazing record. Still in my Top 20 of all time albums after all these years.

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

Cue Jon Stewart and his gospel choir. That guy can go get bent. =P

Why would you want Jon Stewart to "go get bent"?

29 darthstar  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:32:02am

re: #9 freetoken

Sorta but not really off topic... The Sarah claims there is no "opportunity" for racial profiling wrt Arizona's latest law:


[Video]

No "opportunity" for racial profiling? The Sarah sucks at the vocabulary.

30 robdouth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:32:39am

"Imagine they're all armed with AK47s and assorted handguns"

Yeah no shit they would then be considered a hazard to the republic, and they'd also be arrested because DC has strict gun laws. If Tea-partiers were doing the same, or if they are (I haven't seen them with assault weapons) I would hope they would be arrested also. Given the vast majority are not doing that though, this becomes a moot point and a little over the top.

31 Lidane  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:34:16am

re: #28 Walter L. Newton

Why would you want Jon Stewart to "go get bent"?

I don't. I want that racist asshole with the "We Speak English" ad to get bent. I just think it would be better if Jon Stewart and his choir were there telling him to go fuck himself when it happened.

32 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:34:27am

re: #30 robdouth

"Imagine they're all armed with AK47s and assorted handguns"

Yeah no shit they would then be considered a hazard to the republic, and they'd also be arrested because DC has strict gun laws. If Tea-partiers were doing the same, or if they are (I haven't seen them with assault weapons) I would hope they would be arrested also. Given the vast majority are not doing that though, this becomes a moot point and a little over the top.

Your missing one point. Some people already did it, in Virginia, last week I believe, in sight of DC, in Virginia, where the procession of their weapons were legal. Not a smart move, but they were not breaking any laws.

33 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:34:28am

re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The "Million Man March" was actually a beautiful thing to watch. Didn't bother me a bit.

The Million Man March was in response to real issues in the African American community. I don't know if it was long lasting (I don't think so really), but it also wasn't an ongoing movement. It was a rally.

The teaparty attracts whites and Christians who claim "persecution" at the hand of liberals. No one is persecuting them, but in they're twisted little fucked up minds "persecution" works. You get stuff when you're persecuted, don't you! You get affirmative action and you get your own History month. You get Holocaust Remembrance Day. What do the poor ole white folks get? NOTHING! Damn it!

What I can't figure out is if they're jealous or just acting out of guilt. Whatever they are, they're whiny babies who wouldn't know what the Constitution actually said if it was read to them. Because it IS read to them and they can't understand separation of church and state. Or believe that our founding fathers would have wanted us to be walking around in a city with 1 million people armed to the teeth with automatic weapons. Or that legal search and seizure can be willy nilly changed by any state in the union.

34 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:34:29am

re: #30 robdouth

Somebody hasn't been paying attention, apparently.

35 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:34:36am

Imagine...
it isn't hard to do.

36 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:34:38am

re: #27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sorry. Huh?

Too obscure--TP rallies that are heavy with vegetarians would naturally have less red meat.

37 freetoken  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:34:39am

re: #30 robdouth

Reference the rally last week by the gunslingers, holding their rally in Virginia across the river from DC proper.

38 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:35:27am

re: #31 Lidane

I don't. I want that racist asshole with the "We Speak English" ad to get bent. I just think it would be better if Jon Stewart and his choir were there telling him to go fuck himself when it happened.

Oh... the way the two sentences were constructed, I thought Stewart was the subject of your second sentence, referencing the first.

Sorry.

(P.S. I don't think Jon Stewart is funny at all)

39 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:35:49am

re: #30 robdouth

They held a gun rally on the Virginia side of the Potomac.

40 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:36:26am

Muslims with weapons?
Don't be ridiculous.

41 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:36:27am

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

re: #39 Killgore Trout

re: #37 freetoken

Informed minds think alike.

42 sagehen  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:36:27am

re: #30 robdouth

"Imagine they're all armed with AK47s and assorted handguns"

Yeah no shit they would then be considered a hazard to the republic, and they'd also be arrested because DC has strict gun laws. If Tea-partiers were doing the same, or if they are (I haven't seen them with assault weapons) I would hope they would be arrested also. Given the vast majority are not doing that though, this becomes a moot point and a little over the top.

There was a gun rights rally just across the river, on the Virginia side of the line but within sight of the Capitol. Overweight, out-of-shape people could run into DC from where they were in under 10 minutes. It was intended as a show of force -- the organizers said so, ahead of time, in their promo material.

43 Lidane  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:36:38am

re: #23 Kruk

Oh, I'm well aware of that demographic train. I'm on it. Heh.

44 AK-47%  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:36:49am

To me the highlight of the Million man March was Louis Farrakahn getting up and telling black men to get off the drugs, get a job and start taking responsibility for their families before other people start controlling them.

That is something no white conservative politician can tell them.

45 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:37:15am

re: #40 Spare O'Lake

Did I miss the Muslim American gun rallies?

46 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:37:35am

re: #44 ralphieboy

To me the highlight of the Million man March was Louis Farrakahn getting up and telling black men to get off the drugs, get a job and start taking responsibility for their families before other people start controlling them.

That is something no white conservative politician can tell them.

Right. Because it would be racist. Sad.

47 Lidane  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:37:39am

re: #38 Walter L. Newton

My bad. I was typing quickly and did a shit job of constructing that post.

Ah well. It happens sometimes.

48 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:37:43am

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

Sorta... but not really off topic... at least where race is concerned...

This Is Alabama; We Speak English

[Link: www.aolnews.com...]

Appears that all the "states rights " emphasis of late is showing up in many different ways across the country. Interesting.

At the risk of being accused of redneckophobia, it is ironic that a good many of these "English only" types are scarcely shining examples of English proficiency themselves, as hilariously demonstrated on many of their protest signs.

49 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:37:47am

re: #44 ralphieboy

To me the highlight of the Million man March was Louis Farrakahn getting up and telling black men to get off the drugs, get a job and start taking responsibility for their families before other people start controlling them.
.

Then he was beamed up to the mothership.

50 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:38:22am

re: #44 ralphieboy

See also: Bill Cosby.

51 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:39:55am

re: #50 McSpiff

See also: Bill Cosby.

Chris Rock.

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:40:41am

re: #6 elizajane

You'd also need a spokesperson for the BTP saying "These are just issues that Real Americans should care about. It's not about us being African American! We'd be happy if white people wanted to join our party. We'll have one speaking at our next rally, and you'll see."
And of course everybody would believe them. Right?

There would be a white singer who would appear at their events!

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:41:14am

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

Sorta... but not really off topic... at least where race is concerned...

This Is Alabama; We Speak English

[Link: www.aolnews.com...]

Appears that all the "states rights " emphasis of late is showing up in many different ways across the country. Interesting.

That's English they speak in Alabama? Interesting.

//

54 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:41:18am

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

There would be a white singer who would appear at their events!

Ted Nugent?

55 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:41:42am

I've actually had to translate for British visitors and locals here in Lubbock when their respective versions of English were unintelligible.

56 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:42:04am

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

That's English they speak in Alabama? Interesting.

//

Truman Capote.

57 bratwurst  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:42:21am

re: #54 Decatur Deb

Ted Nugent?

She said a singer.

58 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:42:47am

re: #12 elizajane

But if she says it, it must be true!

Yeah. As a Californian, I'm being told I don't 'understand' the situation, but Sarah-from-Alaska 'gets it' because Arizona is also part of 'real America'. Or something.

Alaska has immigration problems, you know. These freaking caribou pay no attention to borders.

59 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:43:49am

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. As a Californian, I'm being told I don't 'understand' the situation, but Sarah-from-Alaska 'gets it' because Arizona is also part of 'real America'. Or something.

Alaska has immigration problems, you know. These freaking caribou pay no attention to borders.

Oregon and Washington have immigration problems too. But they have no fool-proof way to identify Californians yet...

// ;)

60 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:43:59am

re: #51 Decatur Deb

Chris Rock.

NSFW at all, drops the N-bomb a bunch, but hilarious example:

[Link: www.yourdailymedia.com...]

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:44:01am

re: #19 freetoken

But Sarah can't see Mexico from Alaska, so she doesn't have to worry.

I bet if she went up on the roof and squinted...

62 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:44:07am

re: #57 bratwurst

She said a singer.

I wanted to balance the TP Gangsta Rapper.

63 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:44:15am

re: #55 Shiplord Kirel

I've actually had to translate for British visitors and locals here in Lubbock when their respective versions of English were unintelligible.

You live in Lubbock, and you talk about "redneckophobia"? Huh, You must be a real hit with your "local" friends. Do you hang around with any "rednecks" and keep a smile on your face?

64 webevintage  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:44:15am

re: #9 freetoken

Sorta but not really off topic... The Sarah claims there is no "opportunity" for racial profiling wrt Arizona's latest law:

Since Ma Palin is a moron we can all assume that folks will just ignore her.
Right?
Right!
/

65 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:45:01am

re: #45 McSpiff

Did I miss the Muslim American gun rallies?

Did you?

66 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:45:39am

re: #63 Walter L. Newton

Are you suggesting everyone in Lubbock is a redneck? The Latin teacher at the local catholic highschool I know would probably take some offense to that label...

67 sagehen  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:46:19am

re: #59 oaktree

Oregon and Washington have immigration problems too. But they have no fool-proof way to identify Californians yet...

// ;)

They smell like tofu.

68 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:46:49am

re: #65 Spare O'Lake

I have not seen any Muslim American gun rallies on the Virginia side of the Potomac like I have with the tea parties. Care to fire off a link for me?

69 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:47:12am

re: #60 McSpiff

'If the kid calls his granma "Mama", and his mama "Pam", he's going to jail.'

70 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:47:25am

re: #36 Decatur Deb

Too obscure--TP rallies that are heavy with vegetarians would naturally have less red meat.

heh. Thanks.

WWWHHHOOOSSSHHH!

By the way, we are referred to as "Crunchy Conservatives". We do exist.

71 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:48:25am

re: #66 McSpiff

Are you suggesting everyone in Lubbock is a redneck? The Latin teacher at the local catholic highschool I know would probably take some offense to that label...

Not in the least. But I am suggesting that everyone who has a heavy west Texas accent, and may have the stereotypical "look" of a ruddy rural person, is not necessarily a redneck. Redneck is as racist of a term as the "N" word. It just seems like it's more acceptable... especially to the left.

What are you talking about, half my family is from the south and I've lived all over the southwest and west.

72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:48:29am

re: #60 McSpiff

I have a dream, that one day that word will become a distant, faded memory.

73 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:48:42am

re: #63 Walter L. Newton

You live in Lubbock, and you talk about "redneckophobia"? Huh, You must be a real hit with your "local" friends. Do you hang around with any "rednecks" and keep a smile on your face?

I talked about being accused of it, Walter. As my notably redneckish accent shows, it is possible to be from that cultural background and still have a reasonable proficiency in English. My friends generally approve what I say along this line.

74 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:49:51am

re: #70 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

heh. Thanks.

WWWHHHOOOSSSHHH!

By the way, we are referred to as "Crunchy Conservatives". We do exist.

"Rice Evangelicals"

75 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:49:52am

re: #68 McSpiff

I have not seen any Muslim American gun rallies on the Virginia side of the Potomac like I have with the tea parties. Care to fire off a link for me?

I said it would be ridiculous. It's your straw man, MsSpiff.

76 lostlakehiker  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:50:08am

Imagine if Pat Buchanan ran for the Republican presidential nomination and got utterly whupped even in Louisiana, largely because he ran the race flag up his pole and nobody saluted?

Oh wait. That's history.

77 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:50:51am

re: #73 Shiplord Kirel

I talked about being accused of it, Walter. As my notably redneckish accent shows, it is possible to be from that cultural background and still have a reasonable proficiency in English. My friends generally approve what I say along this line.

And redneck is a racist term, in my opinion. It automatically conjures up a white, uneducated person who fits some bigoted stereotype. I lived in Texas and half my family is from the south, and I know many people who would fix the "image" and are smarter and more liberal than anyone you would know.

So, yes, I find the term to be a all inclusive bigoted label.

78 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:50:58am

re: #24 Lidane

DougJ over at Balloon Juice has a post about that. I'm still working my way through it because of all the links:

[Link: www.balloon-juice.com...]

That's an excellent link. From it:

Update. Balloon-Juice favorite Daniel Larison also has VDARE on his blogroll. VDARE publishes a lot of stuff, much of it crazy, but I am not sure that it is all crazy. So I don’t know what to make of this exactly.

That's not the only stinky link Larison has. And it's not just his blogroll, it's listed under "recommended sites." Look:

#
Conservative Magazines & Recommended Sites

* @TAC
* Chronicles
* Culture11
* First Principles
* Front Porch Republic
* Intercollegiate Studies Institute
* LewRockwell.com
* Ron Paul 2008
* Sobran’s
* Taki’s Magazine
* The American Cause
* The American Conservative
* The American Scene
* The Compass
* The League of the South
* The New Atlantis
* The New Pantagruel
* The Russell Kirk Center
* The Spectator
* The Week
* VDare

I don't know what anybody sees in Larison, other than if they like that he's anti-war. Three times on LGF I've seen liberals mention him as a "reasonable conservative." I'm still trying to figure out the attraction.

79 webevintage  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:51:36am

This is of course a great game, imaging the tea party folks as all black and the reaction of FOX and conservative pundits and Republican Pols.

I can only imagine the columns from DoucheHat and Peggy "concerned face" Noonan.

BTW, MSNBC please stop having Patrick Buchannan on TV during the day, you force me to get up and turn you off when that happens.
(He said just a few minutes ago how being asked to prove who you are is no big deal...he remembers when he was a kid blahblahblah....and he had to walk 10 miles blahblahblah and their jews were blahblahblah)

80 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:51:56am

re: #44 ralphieboy

To me the highlight of the Million man March was Louis Farrakahn getting up and telling black men to get off the drugs, get a job and start taking responsibility for their families before other people start controlling them.

That is something no white conservative politician can tell them.

Unfortunately, I'm guessing that the men who needed to hear that from Mr. Farrakahn weren't there.

Was an assortment of what is best about "Black America". ('Ceptin' Farrakahn, of course.)...

81 robdouth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:52:26am

re: #42 sagehen

Well it's still over the top to mention AK 47s, because those are illegal assault weapons if I remember correctly, and there's no way that you could get a permit to parade those around correct? The fact that there are some people showing up with handguns is concerning, but if it were AK47s and in DC proper (not across the river) then it would be illegal and they'd all be spending a solid amount of time in prison. That's why it seemed like hyperbole, because he's asking us to imagine something that is explicitly illegal and highly dangerous to the capital and wonder what we should think of it compared to what actually happened.

It's like the one-sided reporting of what's going on here in AZ. They passed a relatively harmless bill (god forbid someone should have their license on them at all times which is actually the law) and no one is hearing about the swastikas being drawn all over the capitol building (sometimes in refried beans which really has to seem ironic).

I hear complaining about how it's not compassionate to these illegal immigrants, but the fact is that if you allow unfettered illegal immigration, then you are not being compassionate to all those people who have to wait in line, and are limited in part because of the illegal variety. In Arizona it's a safety and budgetary issue. No one mentions how much it costs for the free healthcare given to illegals at any hospital they walk into (can't be refused care and can't be reported because it would be a HIPAA violation) and no one cites their overrepresentation in all the violent and non-violent crimes. If we could close it down and create a nice orderly immigration process for Mexico that just registered even hundreds of thousands to come over as long as they pass a basic background check, there wouldn't be the tension along the border that there is now.

I work in a hospital in a good area of the Phoenix valley and the startling majority of the Charity and bad debt that we write off is due to undocumented cases. Combine that with the shitty reimbursement from Medicare and Medicaid, and then the higher percentage of medicaid that we will have to take due to the Healthcare passage, and if we weren't in a good financial situation, I would worry about my hospital going under and being bought by a for-profit. I don't see how hospitals in central phoenix will be able to survive unless the government bails them out or just starts running the hospitals.

I know that even having this opinion, based on the facts I've seen in our own financial statements amounts to de jure racism for a lot of people who can sit in judgement from the east coast or midwest, but unless you work in a business that is financially adversely affected by illegal immigration, you can't really know.

82 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:54:26am

re: #81 robdouth

...They passed a relatively harmless bill...

Facepalm

83 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:54:38am

re: #44 ralphieboy

To me the highlight of the Million man March was Louis Farrakahn getting up and telling black men to get off the drugs, get a job and start taking responsibility for their families before other people start controlling them.

That is something no white conservative politician can tell them.

Farrakahn is an America-hating, anti-Semitic, fuckwad of the worst kind.

84 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:55:13am

re: #83 Spare O'Lake

Farrakahn is an America-hating, anti-Semitic, fuckwad of the worst kind.

Who believes in UFO's too... very bad man.

85 iossarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:55:35am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

I agree completely. I find it incredible that people who are otherwise very aware of discrimination feel it's OK to toss this particular term about.

86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:56:04am

re: #82 Varek Raith

There were also some excellent points in the post, though. Do you agree?

87 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:56:15am

re: #75 Spare O'Lake

I said it would be ridiculous. It's your straw man, MsSpiff.

Uhh what in the hell are you talking about? It was used as a hypothetical example in the piece Charles posted. You then replied with "Muslims with weapons? don't be ridiculous" that sounded sarcastic to me, and I know you have your finger on the pulse of Muslim extremism in the West, so I thought you knew of an actual example of Muslims in America protesting with weapons.

And I hope that misspelling of my nic wasn't an attempt at a misogynistic insult right? Because that would be pretty embarrassing for you. Its McSpiff for future reference, and I'd prefer you spell it properly.

88 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:56:43am

re: #81 robdouth

Legal status of AK-47:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

89 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:57:00am

re: #81 robdouth

It amazed me that folks could think the health care bill solves major problems in the industry, when it changes nothing as far as illegal immigrants go. They still have to use emergency rooms for medical care. That's a major problem.

90 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:57:24am
Imagine that hundreds of black protesters were to descend upon Washington DC and Northern Virginia, just a few miles from the Capitol and White House, armed with AK-47s, assorted handguns, and ammunition. And imagine that some of these protesters —the black protesters — spoke of the need for political revolution, and possibly even armed conflict in the event that laws they didn’t like were enforced by the government?

*Imagines the 10.4 Richter scale ragegasm at Stormfront and grins*

91 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:57:28am

re: #86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There were also some excellent points in the post, though. Do you agree?

I agree. And it's good to have an opinion from someone at ground zero, whether we agree or disagree...

92 robdouth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:58:09am

re: #82 Varek Raith

Bullshit, all it basically does is give teeth to the existing bills. I saw the BS horror story reported here about the truck driver. If you get to read the details here, or actually know an AZ police officer, you get the real story, not the one that fits everyone's nice pre-conceived notions that this innocent driver was minding his business and was harrassed for no reason.

You can blithely say facepalm, but I gaurantee you either don't live here or have no negative affects from illegal immigration. There's a reason that over 70% of this state supports the bill, and it's not because 70% of this state hates mexicans and wants to see them mistreated. If you think that you're an idiot.

93 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:58:32am

re: #89 wrenchwench

It amazed me that folks could think the health care bill solves major problems in the industry, when it changes nothing as far as illegal immigrants go. They still have to use emergency rooms for medical care. That's a major problem.

so true

94 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:59:17am

re: #86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There were also some excellent points in the post, though. Do you agree?

There were almost enough top upding. The issue is multi-sided enough to permit argument. (It's also rare for anyone to make 5 or 6 useful points in a long comment without ruining it.)

95 robdouth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:59:21am

re: #88 Decatur Deb

Well they shouldn't be legal. That's one more bad for the Republican party. I thought true assault weapons were illegal, and either way, if it were in DC they would be. Virginia may be just across the river geographically, but not morally and politically.

96 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:59:38am

re: #92 robdouth

Bullshit, all it basically does is give teeth to the existing bills. I saw the BS horror story reported here about the truck driver. If you get to read the details here, or actually know an AZ police officer, you get the real story, not the one that fits everyone's nice pre-conceived notions that this innocent driver was minding his business and was harrassed for no reason.

You can blithely say facepalm, but I gaurantee you either don't live here or have no negative affects from illegal immigration. There's a reason that over 70% of this state supports the bill, and it's not because 70% of this state hates mexicans and wants to see them mistreated. If you think that you're an idiot.

hey - on that topic - do you have a link or a recommendation for a source which goes into more detail on the truck driver bit?

97 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:59:56am

re: #70 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

heh. Thanks.

WWWHHHOOOSSSHHH!

By the way, we are referred to as "Crunchy Conservatives". We do exist.

Is that because someone forgot to take the bones out?

/ ;)

98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:00:01am

re: #91 Aceofwhat?

I've been playing the "I agree the bill is bad/ but, we ain't from there/ what should Arizona do about the problem" kazoo for several days now.

Folks are too busy throwing spitballs at it.

99 Obdicut  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:00:05am

re: #81 robdouth

Why do people say "Nobody every talks about X", when I've always heard X about a hundred times before?

100 Obdicut  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:01:22am

re: #92 robdouth

Does it at all bother you that the bill is almost certainly going to be shot down in the courts, thus costing the state huge amounts of money and jeopardizing any prosecutions that involve it at all?

101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:01:35am

re: #97 oaktree

Dammit, (giggle), I'm being serious here! (*snort*)

102 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:01:59am

re: #89 wrenchwench

It amazed me that folks could think the health care bill solves major problems in the industry, when it changes nothing as far as illegal immigrants go. They still have to use emergency rooms for medical care. That's a major problem.

One of the first republican scare tactics was that the illegals would be covered! n o o o o. (Joe, "you lie" Wilson)

They couldn't get anything in there for that, no way no how. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

103 gamark  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:02:08am

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

Not sure what this has to do with "states rights" issues. Seems more of a nativist kind of thing. That being said, what the hell are the damn Italians supposed to think? German, French, Greek, but no Italian?

Che Beghine!

104 Obdicut  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:02:31am

re: #98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You've gotten a lot of answers to your question, though. Have they been unsatisfactory for some reason?

I know I've written out my answer to you a couple of times.

105 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:03:04am

re: #101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dammit, (giggle), I'm being serious here! (*snort*)

"Oh, right, right, with the bones. I always forget about the bones... "

106 freetoken  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:04:08am

re: #103 gamark

. That being said, what the hell are the damn Italians supposed to think? German, French, Greek, but no Italian?

Since you raised them...

Greek Notes Gain After IMF Signals Aid May Last for 3 Years

The two-year Greek note yield fell 164 basis points to 17.35 percent as of 4:34 p.m. in London after earlier soaring as high as 26 percent. The 4.3 percent security due in March 2012 rose 270, or 20.70 euros per 1,000 -euro face amount, to 80.44.

26%... that's almost as usurious as credit cards!

107 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:04:08am

re: #98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've been playing the "I agree the bill is bad/ but, we ain't from there/ what should Arizona do about the problem" kazoo for several days now.

Folks are too busy throwing spitballs at it.

Yep. and if Holder goes after the bill, it'll get real interesting. The governor already fired off a "well if they were doing their jobs we wouldn't have to..."

Which, given that Obama admitted the same thing, is not exactly an empty accusation...it's a tangled web.

108 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:04:41am

re: #103 gamark

Not sure what this has to do with "states rights" issues. Seems more of a nativist kind of thing. That being said, what the hell are the damn Italians supposed to think? German, French, Greek, but no Italian?

Che Beghine!

Not sure what you are talking about. This is a issue between the state of Alabama and the federal government. The reason for the multiple language test is because the feds mandate certain things in order to receive federal funding. The state thinks it has the right to ignore this... never mind, I'm not going to rewrite the whole article for you, did you even read the article from beginning to end?

109 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:04:48am

I'm a racially, religiously tolerant person. I believe in immigration. Bring em on. The more the merrier. I love living in a city with people of all colors, creeds and religions. I've lived in the country and although I love the laid back lifestyle, I would live there again.

But I have a question.

"People of color".

How is this any different than saying "colored"? I can't stand this terminology.

110 AK-47%  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:05:18am

re: #57 bratwurst

She said a singer.


He could still perfom his big hit Storm Troopin'

111 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:06:28am

re: #109 marjoriemoon

I'm a racially, religiously tolerant person. I believe in immigration. Bring em on. The more the merrier. I love living in a city with people of all colors, creeds and religions. I've lived in the country and although I love the laid back lifestyle, I would live there again.

But I have a question.

"People of color".

How is this any different than saying "colored"? I can't stand this terminology.

And why hasn't the NAACP changed their name?

112 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:06:46am

re: #105 Varek Raith

"Oh, right, right, with the bones. I always forget about the bones... "

If people place a nice chocky in their mouth, they don't want their cheeks pierced.

/

113 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:07:14am

re: #109 marjoriemoon

I'm a racially, religiously tolerant person. I believe in immigration. Bring em on. The more the merrier. I love living in a city with people of all colors, creeds and religions. I've lived in the country and although I love the laid back lifestyle, I would live there again.

But I have a question.

"People of color".

How is this any different than saying "colored"? I can't stand this terminology.

Don't know, except that "colored" has had a legal definition in various times and places.

114 AK-47%  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:07:21am

re: #107 Aceofwhat?

Yep. and if Holder goes after the bill, it'll get real interesting. The governor already fired off a "well if they were doing their jobs we wouldn't have to..."

Which, given that Obama admitted the same thing, is not exactly an empty accusation...it's a tangled web.


I am from there (expatriate) and i have to admire their sheer bloody-mindedness.

The bill is likely to be struck down and may lead to boycotts and the like, but it has sure garned a large degree of attention to the fact that the border states are bearing the brunt of a national problem that the rest of the nation has been blithely ignoring.

115 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:07:57am

re: #102 Stanley Sea

One of the first republican scare tactics was that the illegals would be covered! n o o o. (Joe, "you lie" Wilson)

They couldn't get anything in there for that, no way no how. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Yep, ugly politics got in the way of reasonableness. Maybe it can be fixed before it gets repealed. *sigh*

116 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:08:20am

re: #114 ralphieboy

I am from there (expatriate) and i have to admire their sheer bloody-mindedness.

The bill is likely to be struck down and may lead to boycotts and the like, but it has sure garned a large degree of attention to the fact that the border states are bearing the brunt of a national problem that the rest of the nation has been blithely ignoring.

Yep. I think Merriam just updated their definition of FUBAR...

117 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:08:26am

BBL -

I'm going to cut and polish some turquoise and then take a nap.

118 tnguitarist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:08:48am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Do you really think redneck is a racist term? When someone says it, are they denigrating an entire race of people? People who have never been here amy refer to all Southerners as rednecks, but I use it to refer to jobless, toothless, racist, ignorant, backwards, intellectually incurious idiots. A great deal of them happen to be on the government teat, by the way.

119 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:08:49am

re: #100 Obdicut

I don't think it's entirely clear that the law will be struck down, though I think it probably will (unconstitutional as applied and federal supremacy, even though the federal government has insufficiently (some could argue abdicated) enforced of border control). Moreover, prosecutions under the case aren't likely to be jeopardized even if it is struck down unless the defendants will be able to prove that there was some other illegal intent involved on the part of law enforcement (racial profiling and that the real reason for the law enforcement stop was to check for ID rather than to stop for some other criminal violation).

Also, as I mentioned in the dead thread, the bill contains a severability clause that allows provisions of the law to survive if any part or parts of the legislation are found unconstitutional. So, if one part of the bill is found unconstitutional, it doesn't necessarily effect the entirety of the bill

120 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:09:28am

re: #104 Obdicut

I've read them, thanks. You're on of my fave enemies (/)...

1. Legalize drugs. I've posted (linked) why the illegal drug trades difficulties have brought up higher levels of violence. (Can't sell pot? Okay, how about a little friendly extortion, kidnapping for ransom and murder)
2. Arrest business owners who hire illegals. I linked a story about a French Restaurant that is being taken by the feds. The story was very sympathetic towards the restaurant owners.

The idea that we can crack down on Mexican Illegal Immigrants without offending and/or inconveniencing Mexican's is preposterous.

My opinion has been pretty clear, while it might be a "face palmable" bad law... Something's gotta give.

121 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:09:38am

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

BBL -

I'm going to cut and polish some turquoise and then take a nap.

Is that what the kids are calling it these days?

122 Ericus58  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:09:41am

re: #106 freetoken

26%... that's almost as usurious as credit cards!

Obama concerned about Greek debt, monitoring closely

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

123 robdouth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:10:39am

re: #100 Obdicut

yeah it does bother me that the courts won't allow the will of the people. But they stopped doing that a long time ago.

124 tnguitarist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:11:04am

re: #118 tnguitarist

amy=may
pimf

125 Jadespring  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:11:04am

re: #109 marjoriemoon

I'm a racially, religiously tolerant person. I believe in immigration. Bring em on. The more the merrier. I love living in a city with people of all colors, creeds and religions. I've lived in the country and although I love the laid back lifestyle, I would live there again.

But I have a question.

"People of color".

How is this any different than saying "colored"? I can't stand this terminology.

It's a common phrase used as a generalized descriptor of the people being talked about. It comes right from the people themselves and is very commonly used by activists in those communities, especially when it's diverse cross cultural group.

126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:12:25am

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

BBL -

I'm going to cut and polish some turquoise and then take a nap.

did someone already say "Is that what you kids are calling it these days?"

127 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:12:28am

robdouth, sorry for my earlier outburst.


This whole debate just tends to tick me off.

128 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:12:44am

re: #123 robdouth

It isn't the court's job to do the will of the people. It's to follow the law as written and applied. If you're not happy with a particular legal outcome, consider changing the laws or demanding proper enforcement.

It also isn't the court's job to legislate from the bench, which they also do from time to time.

129 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:13:12am

re: #127 Varek Raith

robdouth, sorry for my earlier outburst.

This whole debate just tends to tick me off.

...i can feeel your anger...

130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:13:13am

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Awww.

131 Ericus58  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:13:45am

re: #119 lawhawk

I don't think it's entirely clear that the law will be struck down, though I think it probably will (unconstitutional as applied and federal supremacy, even though the federal government has insufficiently (some could argue abdicated) enforced of border control). Moreover, prosecutions under the case aren't likely to be jeopardized even if it is struck down unless the defendants will be able to prove that there was some other illegal intent involved on the part of law enforcement (racial profiling and that the real reason for the law enforcement stop was to check for ID rather than to stop for some other criminal violation).

Also, as I mentioned in the dead thread, the bill contains a severability clause that allows provisions of the law to survive if any part or parts of the legislation are found unconstitutional. So, if one part of the bill is found unconstitutional, it doesn't necessarily effect the entirety of the bill

^^^^^^^This guy^^^^^^^^
I need to be smart like him someday.
Always with the details.

132 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:13:50am

re: #89 wrenchwench

It amazed me that folks could think the health care bill solves major problems in the industry, when it changes nothing as far as illegal immigrants go. They still have to use emergency rooms for medical care. That's a major problem.

Hey it was a small step in the right direction, and it isn't written in stone, that bill is by no means the final word on HCR that we will see.

Besides it was the only thing they could get passed at this time, trying to include illegals or a public option, or abortion coverage, or the other dozen things that were dropped to gain enough votes to get it passed just would have meant that nothing ever got passed.

Yes there will still be about 24 million without coverage even after the bill is in full effect, and yes 60%+ of them will be illegals. But there was no chance of doing anything about that right now, maybe after immigration reform of some kind is settled we can figure out a way to cover most of those people too, hopefully then they will be able to openly pay their share of the costs also.

133 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:14:02am

re: #123 robdouth

yeah it does bother me that the courts won't allow the will of the people. But they stopped doing that a long time ago.

Yeah, well "the people" didn't like mixed marriages in most states either. Old argument.

134 _remembertonyc  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:14:38am

Ted Nugent and Kanye (George Bush hates Black people) West were operating from the same playbook.

135 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:14:50am

re: #123 robdouth

What hawk said... (ding) ...

If the will of the people was to outlaw vegetarianism, the court would back my fat ass.

136 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:15:02am

re: #111 Mad Al-Jaffee

re: #125 Jadespring

re: #113 Decatur Deb

I hate it. All I hear is "colored".

It's new and supposed to be "improved," as opposed to the NAACP which has been around for a long time which is probably the reason it's not changed.

Because it's new, doesn't make it better to me. It just make it "softer". People OF color. Not COLORED people. What's the difference? There is none. I hate it.

137 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:16:11am

re: #135 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What hawk said... (ding) ...

If the will of the people was to outlaw vegetarianism, the court would back my fat ass.

Image: vegan-support-fail.jpg

:)

138 gamark  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:16:22am

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

The reason for the multiple language test is because the feds mandate certain things in order to receive federal funding. The state thinks it has the right to ignore this... never mind, I'm not going to rewrite the whole article for you, did you even read the article from beginning to end?

Yes I did. My reading comprehension seems to be a step above yours.

Did I imply in any way that AL has a right to ignore an agreement between itself and the US government? On the other hand, all AL has to do is stop accepting federal highway funds and it can ignore all those strings attached. Still not a state's right issue in my mind.

139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:16:29am

re: #136 marjoriemoon

Non-Honkie?

140 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:16:46am

This just ticks me off. The Westboro Baptists are at it again, this time picketing the MS school where a teenager is going to graduate. This teen happens to be a lesbian who sought to bring her girlfriend as her date to the prom and the school canceled the prom. A court found that the school acted improperly, but didn't reinstate the prom.

"[We] will picket the graduation of Itawamba Agricultural High School to remind the parents, teachers and students of this nation that God said 'Thou shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind, it is abomination,'" the group declared.

McMillen fought a legal battle with her Fulton, Miss., high school after it refused to allow her to attend the prom with her girlfriend. In response to the fight, the school then decided to cancel the prom.

She won in court after the judge found that the school had violated her freedom of expression, but did not force the school to reinstate the classic high school event.

141 robdouth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:16:53am

re: #127 Varek Raith

Look, I understand that the discussions are heated. Think about how frustrating it is when you are in the position like me and people who are like-minded, that something needs to be done, and we can't afford to keep allowing illegal immigration to run rampant and bankrupt our state. Most people just call you racist and say you aren't compassionate. The truth is that i'm passionate about the state as a whole, and if we could be financially solvent with all the illegal immigrants here, then I'd have no other beef, but when I see that they want to cut from other areas such as education because they aren't willing to make the cuts needed to police the food stamp programs and AHCCCS recipients, then it gets frustrating. It's doubly frustrating when they resist any attempts to bring them in and get them to learn English so they will be more invested in this country and more likely to succeed in future generations. If you don't want to every rise above lower class you only have to do one thing in AZ, don't learn English, because then you limit your opportunities.

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:17:16am

re: #109 marjoriemoon

I'm a racially, religiously tolerant person. I believe in immigration. Bring em on. The more the merrier. I love living in a city with people of all colors, creeds and religions. I've lived in the country and although I love the laid back lifestyle, I would live there again.

But I have a question.

"People of color".

How is this any different than saying "colored"? I can't stand this terminology.

I use it sometimes because people know what you mean, but I hate it, for a number of reasons, mostly based on my early '90s liberal arts education.

One of Berkeley Breathed's strips did a great bit on it:

Mom: (standing by the window, watching child jump rope) Oh, look, it's that cute little colored girl who lives up the street.

Son: MOM! We don't say 'colored' people anymore.

Mom: Sorry dear, I meant Negro.

Son: Mom!

Mom: Black?

Son: No, Mom, we say 'people of color'.

Mom: People of color?

Son: Yes. People of color.

Mom: Colored people.

Son: NO!!

143 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:17:18am

re: #139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Non-Honkie?

Now that I love :) lol

144 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:17:23am

re: #134 _remembertonyc

Ted Nugent and Kanye (George Bush hates Black people) West were operating from the same playbook.

nick cannon
ludacris (repudiated by Obama, to his credit)
etc.

the rapper analogy was one of the only weak points in the post. of course rappers say dumb shit like that. i care what nick cannon raps about almost as much as i care what ted nugent has to say. some folks parody themselves...

145 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:17:29am

re: #120 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

1. Legalize drugs. I've posted (linked) why the illegal drug trades difficulties have brought up higher levels of violence. (Can't sell pot? Okay, how about a little friendly extortion, kidnapping for ransom and murder)

Here's an article that says enforcement against illegal drugs increases violence. Excerpt:

When communities get tough on drug crime, that drives up the black market profits, prompting fierce battles to control the lucrative trade, their study says. And when powerful and successful drug bosses are taken out, it's all too common for more brutal and less sophisticated criminals to step in.

"Law enforcement is the biggest single expenditure on drugs, yet has rarely been evaluated. This work indicates an urgent need to shift resources from counterproductive law enforcement to a health-based public health approach," said Gerry Stimson, executive director of the International Harm Reduction Association which is hosting a conference this week in Liverpool, England, where the study was released.

146 Obdicut  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:17:45am

re: #123 robdouth

I'm sorry, you think we should be a direct democracy with no constitution?

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:17:46am

re: #111 Mad Al-Jaffee

And why hasn't the NAACP changed their name?

Long-standing recognition under it.

148 robdouth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:18:31am

re: #133 Stanley Sea

So then we are supposed to listen to you, who knows better. Fuck what the people want, Stanley knows their just ignorant rubes, so even if 3/4 of the state recognizes the situation is untenable, fuck em, this ain't a democracy if it's about topics we decide are too important for the ignorant masses to decide right?

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:18:54am

re: #125 Jadespring

It's a common phrase used as a generalized descriptor of the people being talked about. It comes right from the people themselves and is very commonly used by activists in those communities, especially when it's diverse cross cultural group.

My annoyance about it comes directly from that source. ;)

150 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:19:14am

re: #148 robdouth

oooh, now you are the touchy one!

151 Jadespring  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:19:22am

re: #136 marjoriemoon

re: #125 Jadespring

re: #113 Decatur Deb

I hate it. All I hear is "colored".

It's new and supposed to be "improved," as opposed to the NAACP which has been around for a long time which is probably the reason it's not changed.

Because it's new, doesn't make it better to me. It just make it "softer". People OF color. Not COLORED people. What's the difference? There is none. I hate it.

It's not new at all. Been around for a looong time. If that's what the people it refers to want to use and have no problem using it then I expect it no problem for them. Better then using us 'non-white people' or us 'brown (ish) people' or us 'people who are not caucasian'.

152 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:19:32am

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

LOL I'm comforted. I thought I was the only one!

153 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:19:34am

re: #134 _remembertonyc

Ted Nugent and Kanye (George Bush hates Black people) West were operating from the same playbook.

They could do a duet. At the Black Tea Party.

154 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:20:03am

re: #153 SanFranciscoZionist

They could do a duet. At the Black Tea Party.

What did Nugent do?

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:20:45am

re: #139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Non-Honkie?

Melanin-Enriched? (Although that's hardly always true of who gets lumped into 'people of color'. Most of my Cantonese friends are paler than I am.)

156 AK-47%  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:20:54am

WWTND?

157 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:21:26am

Crazy Pam makes more Jew hating friends....
Tennessee Tea Party Speakers

Her pic is right next to the guy from the Birch Society. Also lots of Israel hating Paulians and the Anti-government militia "OathKeepers". Heh.

158 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:21:29am

re: #140 lawhawk

This just ticks me off. The Westboro Baptists are at it again, this time picketing the MS school where a teenager is going to graduate. This teen happens to be a lesbian who sought to bring her girlfriend as her date to the prom and the school canceled the prom. A court found that the school acted improperly, but didn't reinstate the prom.

Has anyone pointed out to them that this young woman, assuming she is 'lying with' anyone, is definitely not lying with man as she lies with woman?

159 Jadespring  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:22:25am

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

My annoyance about it comes directly from that source. ;)

Sure but the way I look at it is who am I to judge or where is my right to tell other people what self-referencing terms to use.

160 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:22:27am

re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist

Lesbianism ain't as bad.

Don't you watch porn!?!

161 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:22:57am

re: #151 Jadespring

It's not new at all. Been around for a looong time. If that's what the people it refers to want to use and have no problem using it then I expect it no problem for them. Better then using us 'non-white people' or us 'brown (ish) people' or us 'people who are not caucasian'.

how about "melanin-rich"?

162 reidr  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:23:14am

re: #78 wrenchwench

I started casually reading his blog a few months ago. He doesn't toe the right wing talking points, which is refreshing. I tend to skip a lot of his foreign policy posts (which is most of them), but the ones I've read sound reasonable to me. He's also called out the right wing for their idiocy when needed. He's anti-Romney and anti-Palin. Compared to most conservative bloggers, he strikes me as very sane. Aside from the recommended blog list, what's not to like? Maybe he's nutty on social issues, but I haven't read many such posts.

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:23:42am

re: #148 robdouth

So then we are supposed to listen to you, who knows better. Fuck what the people want, Stanley knows their just ignorant rubes, so even if 3/4 of the state recognizes the situation is untenable, fuck em, this ain't a democracy if it's about topics we decide are too important for the ignorant masses to decide right?

You want some milk with your martyr cookie?

164 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:23:58am

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Melanin-Enriched? (Although that's hardly always true of who gets lumped into 'people of color'. Most of my Cantonese friends are paler than I am.)

dang...gmta...

165 robdouth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:25:01am

re: #150 Stanley Sea

No, but you make an assinine statement regarding the rights of American citizens to marry, which shouldn't be a state issue anyway, and try to equate it with a completely different topic which is directly the purview of the state. Plus you've added nothing except two unwitty throw-away lines. Oh aren't you touchy, and yeah we've heard that argument before. you're like a stupid magic 8-ball. Shake you up - Yeah That's likely.

Saying 3/4 of the state supports the bill is meant to show you how serious the problem is. At least this governor and reps are willing to try to do something to combat the problem. The idiotic problem with a national bill is that they think they have to tackle it all at once. You secure the borders and deport a number of illegals, then what you get is what's happened. Mexico gives a travel warning about going to AZ, which means, yay, less illegals for the forseeable future. This means the bill is acting as a deterrent as well. Maybe if everyone on the border did this, then there would be enough impetus to create a legitimate bill to address this instead of saying you will and kicking it down the line. This is what happens when the Dems and Reps are unwilling to address a serious problem. The states will do what they have to.

166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:25:04am

re: #161 Aceofwhat?

how about "melanin-rich"?

Don't you watch movies? You wanna piss off an Albino?

167 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:25:08am

re: #151 Jadespring

It's not new at all. Been around for a looong time. If that's what the people it refers to want to use and have no problem using it then I expect it no problem for them. Better then using us 'non-white people' or us 'brown (ish) people' or us 'people who are not caucasian'.

It is new. Not yesterday new, but it's only been used in maybe the last 10 years.

Lots of Jews refuse to use the word "Jew" when describing themselves. They will use "Jewish". We had a discussion here about that, but I was first introduced to the idea on beliefnet. Is JewISH only kind of a Jew? And since Jew is often attached to negative adjectives, Jews started shying away from the usage:

He's a Jewish man.
He's a Jew.

I prefer #2. #1 is redundant anyway. HE is a man so you don't have to say HE is a MAN. But you do if you use "Jewish".

Same principle in reverse with "people of color." Just because you're one of the tribe (either tribe) doesn't make it right.

168 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:25:09am

re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think that even crossed their minds...

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:26:48am

re: #151 Jadespring

It's not new at all. Been around for a looong time. If that's what the people it refers to want to use and have no problem using it then I expect it no problem for them. Better then using us 'non-white people' or us 'brown (ish) people' or us 'people who are not caucasian'.

I got my crankiness fighting over whether Jews, or which Jews, are white, and if so what that means.

170 robdouth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:27:10am

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you know what a martyr is, because I've not died or sacrificed for anything. You guys have such pithy little witticisms, but if you look at what you're saying, it's neither witty nor deep. They are vacuous statements. And yes, I'd love a glass of milk.

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:27:43am

re: #153 SanFranciscoZionist

They could do a duet. At the Black Tea Party.

And that would give Obama another chance to call West a jackass.

172 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:27:46am

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Don't you watch movies? You wanna piss off an Albino?

that movie was weird...almost like it was written or directed by a pedophile.

oh wait...it was!

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:28:07am

re: #154 Varek Raith

What did Nugent do?

I don't know, I don't know who he is.

174 CuriousLurker  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:28:47am

Hi, everyone.

SFZ, I can only stay for a minute, but since it seems slow and I caught you here, would you mind emailing me when you have time? My nic should be blue now. If you're not comfortable emailing a virtual stranger, I totally understand.

I just want to pick your brain about some books, probably over the weekend.

175 Gus  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:28:53am

The essay, Imagine if the Tea Party Was Black, will no doubt make a lot of Tea Party people and many of their supporters feel rather uncomfortable. The truth sometimes has that effect.

Excellent essay and a very good thought experiment. However, there's no doubt in my mind that many will find the concept difficult to grasp -- their loss.

176 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:29:11am
Saudi-funded textbooks being used in America's K-12 classrooms.

Teaching, among other things, that Jesus was a "Palestinian," the state of Israel never existed, and that the Muslims discovered America before Columbus. At this rate, perhaps even Saudi grade-school textbooks, complete with jihadi and dhimmi declarations, will come to instruct American school-children.


177 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:29:23am
178 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:30:31am

re: #162 reidr

I started casually reading his blog a few months ago. He doesn't toe the right wing talking points, which is refreshing. I tend to skip a lot of his foreign policy posts (which is most of them), but the ones I've read sound reasonable to me. He's also called out the right wing for their idiocy when needed. He's anti-Romney and anti-Palin. Compared to most conservative bloggers, he strikes me as very sane. Aside from the recommended blog list, what's not to like? Maybe he's nutty on social issues, but I haven't read many such posts.

The recommended site list is so horrible, I can hardly get past it to read his other stuff. Personally, I am appalled by isolationism. Anti-Palin is easy, why is he anti-Romney? After seeing his other stuff, I would guess religion is why. That would be reprehensible. He's more in line with Ron Paul than with anything I see as conservative. I think Ron Paul is a loon, in case that wasn't clear.

Sadly, this phrase

Compared to most conservative bloggers, he strikes me as very sane.

is now completely meaningless.

179 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:31:53am

re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist

Has anyone pointed out to them that this young woman, assuming she is 'lying with' anyone, is definitely not lying with man as she lies with woman?

Well... I don't want to be graphic or anything, but it IS possible. Not as realistic, but possible!

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:31:56am

re: #159 Jadespring

Sure but the way I look at it is who am I to judge or where is my right to tell other people what self-referencing terms to use.

Yeah, and to that extent I am fine--someone says they are a person of color, and I nod approvingly. I have some issues with the concept behind the usage, and as I said, some of my difficulty with the term comes out of how it has affected Jewish and Arab feminism and activism, which is one of my 'things'.

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:32:29am

re: #160 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Lesbianism ain't as bad.

Don't you watch porn!?!

Well, what the heck are they protesting about, then!

182 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:34:58am

re: #162 reidr

I started casually reading his blog a few months ago. He doesn't toe the right wing talking points, which is refreshing. I tend to skip a lot of his foreign policy posts (which is most of them), but the ones I've read sound reasonable to me. He's also called out the right wing for their idiocy when needed. He's anti-Romney and anti-Palin. Compared to most conservative bloggers, he strikes me as very sane. Aside from the recommended blog list, what's not to like? Maybe he's nutty on social issues, but I haven't read many such posts.

Bottom line for me: anyone who links to VDARE in their blogroll has something seriously wrong with them. This isn't a small thing; VDARE is a white supremacist site, and they've also published Holocaust deniers and antisemites.

183 Jadespring  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:36:13am

re: #167 marjoriemoon

It is new. Not yesterday new, but it's only been used in maybe the last 10 years.

Lots of Jews refuse to use the word "Jew" when describing themselves. They will use "Jewish". We had a discussion here about that, but I was first introduced to the idea on beliefnet. Is JewISH only kind of a Jew? And since Jew is often attached to negative adjectives, Jews started shying away from the usage:

He's a Jewish man.
He's a Jew.

I prefer #2. #1 is redundant anyway. HE is a man so you don't have to say HE is a MAN. But you do if you use "Jewish".

Same principle in reverse with "people of color." Just because you're one of the tribe (either tribe) doesn't make it right.

Still comes down to judging others on what they feel is okay as a self-referencing term. If they're okay with it, then I'm okay with it.

Upthread there was discussion of the term 'redneck'. I don't like it myself because it has a history of being a disparaging term. I know 'rednecks' though. People that like referencing themselves as 'rednecks' and proud of the moniker. They even call me a redneck now. So if that's what they want then fine. With them I'll go with it.

Similiar thing with the word 'queer'. At one time most of it's use was negative. Now it's a term that's been taken back so to speak and is used to self-reference all of the time. If it's alright with the group or person using the term then fine, it's alright with me.

184 webevintage  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:38:42am

re: #123 robdouth

yeah it does bother me that the courts won't allow the will of the people. But they stopped doing that a long time ago.

Thw "will of the people" is awesome as long as the "will of the people" is not the "will of the majority" to keep those "other people" (women, blacks, gays, ect.) from having the same rights that the majority enjoys..

185 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:38:45am

re: #170 robdouth

Do you know what a martyr is, because I've not died or sacrificed for anything. You guys have such pithy little witticisms, but if you look at what you're saying, it's neither witty nor deep. They are vacuous statements. And yes, I'd love a glass of milk.

I've stated why I think this is a poor law, and why I believe the courts will not permit it to stand. I've said this a number of times over the past few days. If that's 'vacuous', so be it. Carry on.

186 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:40:40am

re: #165 robdouth

And you are diminishing your point with attacks.

187 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:40:48am

re: #184 webevintage

Thw "will of the people" is awesome as long as the "will of the people" is not the "will of the majority" to keep those "other people" (women, blacks, gays, ect.) from having the same rights that the majority enjoys..

And the constitution is the ultimate will of the people. The people are permitted to express their will insomuch as it does not abrogate the constitution.

Whether this bill does or not will be interesting. Either way, the feds aren't going to come out of it looking very good (and i mean feds, not Obama).

188 Jadespring  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:41:44am

re: #180 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, and to that extent I am fine--someone says they are a person of color, and I nod approvingly. I have some issues with the concept behind the usage, and as I said, some of my difficulty with the term comes out of how it has affected Jewish and Arab feminism and activism, which is one of my 'things'.

It's not perfect by any means and most in my experience at least know it's not perfect. I haven't however had the experience that you related in your previous comment, so can see where the annoyance comes from.

189 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:42:18am

re: #174 CuriousLurker

Hi, everyone.

SFZ, I can only stay for a minute, but since it seems slow and I caught you here, would you mind emailing me when you have time? My nic should be blue now. If you're not comfortable emailing a virtual stranger, I totally understand.

I just want to pick your brain about some books, probably over the weekend.

Be happy to, but I can't e-mail from here. I'll try to do it this evening, OK? Talk soon.

190 CuriousLurker  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:44:43am

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

Be happy to, but I can't e-mail from here. I'll try to do it this evening, OK? Talk soon.

Sure, whenever it's convenient. Thanks!

Have fun, Lizards.

~~~~Gone~~~~

191 jvic  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:45:20am

re: #96 Aceofwhat?

re: #92 robdouth

Bullshit, all it basically does is give teeth to the existing bills. I saw the BS horror story reported here about the truck driver. If you get to read the details here, or actually know an AZ police officer, you get the real story, not the one that fits everyone's nice pre-conceived notions that this innocent driver was minding his business and was harrassed for no reason.

You can blithely say facepalm, but I gaurantee you either don't live here or have no negative affects from illegal immigration. There's a reason that over 70% of this state supports the bill, and it's not because 70% of this state hates mexicans and wants to see them mistreated. If you think that you're an idiot.

hey - on that topic - do you have a link or a recommendation for a source which goes into more detail on the truck driver bit?

robdouth, let me second Ace's request for sourcing about the AZ truck driver. I am a secure-the-borders guy, but I am also a limited-powers libertarian and that incident struck me as beyond the pale.

If I were in your shoes right now, I'd find it hard to keep my composure right now, so whenever you get around to it.

TIA. Sorry if you posted links that I overlooked.

192 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:48:54am

Lunchtime--BBL.re: #180 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, and to that extent I am fine--someone says they are a person of color, and I nod approvingly. I have some issues with the concept behind the usage, and as I said, some of my difficulty with the term comes out of how it has affected Jewish and Arab feminism and activism, which is one of my 'things'.

I'm "Parchment". I know that's a color in the Land's End catalogue, but I don't think it's going to get me any creds.

193 reidr  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:49:53am

re: #178 wrenchwench

I never look at recommended blog lists in general, and I had never heard of VDARE before this. Now that I know, I can see how that would disturb you. (And Charles, too.) Maybe it's old and he would populate it differently now.

I haven't read enough of his stuff to know if he's an isolationist. Just judging a few individual posts, they've seemed fine. Compared to things like the Iraq war, I'd say I'm okay with a little isolationism.

Yeah, anti-Palin is a gimme. I figured the anti-Romney part would be less accepted here. You should go check his site because I couldn't do it justice from memory; but I'll just say that I thought Romney was the biggest panderer I've ever seen in the 2008 primaries. A candidate that seemed to be run by a PR firm. Just my view.... (I hope I'm not confusing Larison with another blogger like James Joyner, now that I think about it. Oops!)

Paul seems much, much loonier than Larison. They may agree somewhat on some issues, but it doesn't seem fair to group them.

I understand how "conservative blogger" has been tainted. That's why I like it here and why I check in with Larison and Joyner. The few, the proud.... (I am a left-leaner interested in rational debate, in case it wasn't clear.)

194 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:53:07am

re: #183 Jadespring

Still comes down to judging others on what they feel is okay as a self-referencing term. If they're okay with it, then I'm okay with it.

Upthread there was discussion of the term 'redneck'. I don't like it myself because it has a history of being a disparaging term. I know 'rednecks' though. People that like referencing themselves as 'rednecks' and proud of the moniker. They even call me a redneck now. So if that's what they want then fine. With them I'll go with it.

Similiar thing with the word 'queer'. At one time most of it's use was negative. Now it's a term that's been taken back so to speak and is used to self-reference all of the time. If it's alright with the group or person using the term then fine, it's alright with me.

I get your point and can site my own examples. But People of Color offends me. It truly does. I don't care if it doesn't offend anyone else.

I've read other pieces from Tim Wise. He's a smart man and doesn't have a bigoted bone in his body. I should ask him about it because he uses it in this article.

195 zora  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:59:50am

re: #109 marjoriemoon

people of color refers to all people of color and i don't think people of color are offended. i personally am not offended. it's just a description that refers to non-whites.

196 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 12:00:16pm

re: #193 reidr

Thanks for your response. I came across an old article last week that chronicles the rise of paleoconservatives, many of whom are racists, on the right. It mentions several of those who appear on Larison's "recommended" list. I recommend it as background to the present. The author has since been drummed out of "polite" conservative circles.

197 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 12:02:57pm

re: #193 reidr

Thanks for your response. I came across an old article last week that chronicles the rise of paleoconservatives, many of whom are racists, on the right. It mentions several of those who appear on Larison's "recommended" list. I recommend it as background to the present. The author has since been drummed out of "polite" conservative circles.

198 zora  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 12:07:46pm

re: #109 marjoriemoon

people of color just means non-white. the term is not offensive to any "people of color" that i know nor do i find it personally offensive. colored is outdated and really has no use in modern language as black or african american suffice. historical societies, the naacp, and old black organizations very often included colored and/ or negro which were progressive words at the time the organizations were founded. i believe they keep these words for historical reasons. just my two cents.

199 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 12:08:18pm

re: #193 reidr

Thanks for your response. I came across an old article last week that chronicles the rise of paleoconservatives, many of whom are racists, on the right. It mentions several of those who appear on Larison's "recommended" list. I recommend it as background to the present. The author has since been drummed out of "polite" conservative circles.

200 zora  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 12:09:48pm

re: #109 marjoriemoon

people of color just means non-white. the term is not offensive to any "people of color" that i know nor do i find it personally offensive. colored is outdated and really has no use in modern language as black or african american suffice. historical societies, the naacp, and old black organizations very often included colored and/ or negro which were progressive words at the time the organizations were founded. i believe they keep these words for historical reasons. just my two cents.

201 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 12:14:03pm

Whoops, I guess it worked all of a sudden.

202 reidr  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 12:22:26pm

re: #196 wrenchwench

Thanks for the link; I'll check it out sometime. Given what I now know about VDARE, it's no surprise there are problems with Larison's recommended list. Thanks to sites like this one, I'm aware of the rise of nasty elements like the Birchers, etc. I hope that Larison has gone through some sort of awakening, like John Cole, and would no longer put hateful blogs on his list. But whatever the case, I still stand by my assessment that most of his posts are reasonable, insightful, etc. If he started posting racist material, I'd of course rethink that....

Oh, and the Frum stinkup was interesting. I never liked him all that much (he was Mr. Axis-of-evil, right?), but his recent honesty earns him a bit of respect.

203 brainiac-dumdum  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 12:30:50pm

When the Black Panthers started their marches demanding and declaring their right to defend themselves from "overzealous" police, they marched through the streets with shotguns, as was legal at the time, and in response, many states made it illegal to openly brandish a firearm.

Now we have states making it easier than ever to openly carry a weapon in public.

Interesting thing that.

204 brainiac-dumdum  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 12:37:54pm

When the Black Panthers started their marches demanding and declaring their right to defend themselves from "overzealous" police, they marched through the streets with shotguns, as was legal at the time, and in response, many states made it illegal to openly brandish a firearm.

Now we have states making it easier than ever to openly carry a weapon in public.

Interesting thing that.

205 brainiac-dumdum  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 12:40:41pm

damnitalltohell

206 waveriderca  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 1:44:00pm

re: #81 robdouth

Don't forget about the kidnappings.

207 search4truth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 1:45:45pm

re: #140 lawhawk

The west boro baptists need to just be reclassified as the wackos out there. They are "far from baptists" and anyone I know does not even know about them as even being of the baptist faith. These are nuts..plain and simple. End of story. Read their story out there on the internet and you really see they are mentally ill, not a faith.

208 search4truth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 2:09:33pm

[Link: www.addictedtohate.com...]

is one of his son's accounts of what the "westboro baptists" did to their family.

This is a CULT, NOT baptist or any type of christian in any means. They just use that term to sully the reputation of christians which is what satan is good at. Amazing story..if you read it all, you will be left with tears.

Here is also an amazing account of a cult watchdog group called "Rick Ross", he watches cults..like the westboro people:

[Link: www.rickross.com...]

209 search4truth  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 2:16:45pm

re: #204 brainiac-dumdum

The right to bear arms has been in courts in many states for many years..fighting. We have that consitutional right. You can attribute it to a race at any time for whatever march they are fighting..but the mere fact is that we do have that right as United States Citizens and I do believe that is what keeps our gov't in check.

No matter what race, I will keep fighting for our right as US citizens to keep our right to bear arms. PERIOD.

210 SteveB4  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 2:26:02pm

"Imagine if the Tea Party was black"

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: What does race have to do with any argument (pro or con) concerning federal spending and government control?

The race card is a diversion, and the racists within the tea party (I'm sure there are some) amount to what some would call "useful idiots".

211 bratwurst  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 2:35:03pm

re: #210 SteveB4

the racists within the tea party (I'm sure there are some)

The organizers, for example.

212 reidr  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 2:53:40pm

re: #210 SteveB4

"Imagine if the Tea Party was black"

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: What does race have to do with any argument (pro or con) concerning federal spending and government control?

The race card is a diversion, and the racists within the tea party (I'm sure there are some) amount to what some would call "useful idiots".

Maybe the people within the tea party that think this is just about federal spending and government control are the "useful idiots"?

213 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 3:12:54pm
Let’s do a little thought experiment, shall we? ....

This post makes a valid point.

214 Querent  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 3:16:10pm

re: #59 oaktree

Save California -- when you leave, take someone with you!

(sorry, latest batch of sarc tags is still held up in Quality Control)

215 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 3:19:24pm

re: #214 Querent

Save California

GREAT!!!!!!!!

now i have to save the cheerleader AND california. thanks. just thanks.

216 Querent  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 3:35:04pm

re: #215 wozzablog

GREAT!!!

now i have to save the cheerleader AND california. thanks. just thanks.

Didn't you read the disclaimer about the sarc tags being in QC?

(i don't really care what you do with the cheerleader either...)

217 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 4:25:53pm

re: #216 Querent

Didn't you read the disclaimer about the sarc tags being in QC?

(i don't really care what you do with the cheerleader either...)

the cheeleader i must save..... in order to save the world, you understand.

218 jordash1212  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:28:39am

re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It does seem the media has emphasized and willingly embellished cases of racism and AK-toting. I disapprove of such acts, but it is interesting to see how different sides play out the actions of the Tea Party participants.

On another note, this thought experiment is definitely something that would be postulated as evidence of a incessant threat of institutional racism in our country.

What's even more interesting is the views of the black Marxist who would criticize the socioeconomic makeup of the Tea Parties. I do wonder what percentage is from a middle class background -- an overwhelmingly large percentage I'm sure. The commentary that would follow is that the middle class fears for their security and economic stability and thus their ability to maintain economic status. Without protection they may quickly become what they fear most: a member of the impoverished parts of society. Some might even push it further and say that some Tea Partiers fear not just poverty, but to be associated with the impoverished minorities (people of color).

I'm no Marxist, but it's always interesting to look at matters from other perspectives. I think there's obvious motivation to protect constitutional values, protect laissez-faire capitalism, and to show our congressman that they are held accountable. And let's face it, how much different are these things than what the French do every other month? A protest is a protest, at least until the AKs are drawn and the mask of political weariness is exchanged for social hatred...

219 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:52:56am

re: #212 reidr

re: #210 SteveB4


Maybe the people within the tea party that think this is just about federal spending and government control are the "useful idiots"?

A very large percentage of the US population believes that government is spending too much and cannot be trusted (judging from the polls I've seen).

If the Tea Party doesn't represent these people, then who does?

220 jordash1212  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:36:33am

re: #219 SteveB4

The people themselves elected these congressman they are unhappy with. You seem to have forgotten we live in a republic. These polls should have a question: did you vote, if yes what was their position on government spending?

The bottom line is we live in a republican democracy. Each of those people, provided they aren't felons or legally insane (I'm sure there at least a few), has the right to choose a better representative for themselves in congress.

221 jordash1212  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:39:30am

I have to add that these people may represent other Americans who disapprove of unchecked government spending, but to say that this is their representation is silly.

222 SteveB4  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:56:53am

re: #221 jordash1212

I have to add that these people may represent other Americans who disapprove of unchecked government spending, but to say that this is their representation is silly.

Again, then who is? Surely not the Democrats. And fiscal conservatives have been disappointed again and again by Republicans.

As for your point about the people getting the government that they vote for, I agree. The people are unsatisfied, thus they are attempting to create new options for themselves.

223 mikeyes  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:01:51am

Black men did so in the 60s in the South.

Not the Panthers, but the Deacons for Defense and Justice. Robert Hicks was one of the members who protected their families and civil rights workers with weapons. They were not mentioned very often due to MLK not wanting them around, but they did act and died for the cause of civil rights. They showed up at civil rights rallies at a time when the sherrif would either not protect them or be the ones who killed them had they not been armed.

Today they are not well remembered but they did protect their First and Fourteenth Amendment rights by invoking the Second Amendment .

224 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:10:21am

re: #223 mikeyes

Fascinating link, thank you.

225 joe90  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:09:02pm

Thanks for the work you're doing Charles, much appreciated.

226 LauraNo  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:49:00pm

re: #46 Walter L. Newton

Right. Because it would be racist. Sad.

No, because it wouldn't be taken as well-meaning criticism but conservatives telling others what to do.

227 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 6:39:34am
228 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 8:38:38am

Just piss off, you whining baby.


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