Overnight Open Thread

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When I got home I mixed a stiff one and stood by the open window in the living room and sipped it and listened to the groundswell of traffic on Laurel Canyon Boulevard and looked at the glare of the big angry city hanging over the shoulder of the hills through which the boulevard had been cut. Far off the banshee wail of police or fire sirens rose and fell, never for very long completely silent. Twenty four hours a day somebody is running, somebody else is trying to catch him. Out there in the night of a thousand crimes, people were dying, being maimed, cut by flying glass, crushed against steering wheels or under heavy tires. People were being beaten, robbed, strangled, raped, and murdered. People were hungry, sick; bored, desperate with loneliness or remorse or fear, angry, cruel, feverish, shaken by sobs. A city no worse than others, a city rich and vigorous and full of pride, a city lost and beaten and full of emptiness. It all depends on where you sit and what your own private score is. I didn’t have one. I didn’t care. I finished the drink and went to bed.

Raymond Chandler

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710 comments
1 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:24:42pm

So a duck walks into a bar...

2 WindHorse  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:25:34pm

re: #1 Irenicum

Ouch.

3 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:26:59pm

Heh! I lived just off of Laurel Canyon for many years. It was nice, but, you couldn't PAY me enough to go back to that Urban kind of living.

4 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:27:58pm

I'm starting to wear down, so I'm going to log off.

Goodnight, all.

5 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:29:52pm

An interesting day. Reading what the Buddha taught, dreaming animated Pulp Fiction dreams, and wishing I could visit abandoned Christian amusement parks. Yeah, a pretty productive day overall.

6 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:33:36pm

I love Raymond Chandler. So cheerful.

7 Steve  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:36:08pm

Hope this works.

Steve

[Link: s0.ilike.com...]

8 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:39:35pm

Wow. My one year lizard anniversary was two days ago and I totally missed it. Crap. And on that happy note, my short lived late night excursion hits the pillow. Nitey nite.

9 CarleeCork  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:45:59pm

re: #1 Irenicum
So, a giraffe walks into a bar and says, the highballs are on me.

10 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 10:50:35pm

Two arrested two over monkey meatballs

Indonesian police have arrested a couple who made meatballs from the flesh of protected monkeys, an animal conservation group said on Wednesday.

The pair poached dozens of rare Javan langurs, also known as silver-leaf monkeys, from Baluran National Park in the east of Java island, according to a statement released by Indonesia-based animal protection group ProFauna.

"Police found 30 kilograms (65 pounds) meat estimated to come from 20 - 25 individuals, two rifles and a live langur," the statement said.

"The couple admitted that they had known what they did was against the law and they hunted the monkeys for their meat because beef and chicken were more expensive than the protected monkeys."

Meatball soup, known locally as bakso, is a popular dish in Indonesia.


Maybe they'll escape to Australia and throw another chimp on the barbie...

40 or so years ago, during the Southeast Asian unpleasantness, a friend and I were strolling through a local ville when we noticed a rather enticing spicy smell coming from a roadside stand. We asked the elderly Vietnamese proprietor what it was. He informed us in his fractured but serviceable English that it was his special monkey stew.

He saw the horrified looks on our faces and said, "No, no. Is ok, is VC monkey!" He even offered us a discount to try it but we declined.

We told some of the other GIs about it later. One of them said, "Oh, yeah. I tried that. Pretty good eatin' as long as one of the hands doesn't come up in your spoon."

11 laZardo  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:00:37pm

To all those checking in for the night, pleasant dreams!

12 steve  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:06:13pm
13 laZardo  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:14:49pm

And for those with more...western tastes...

14 Mark Pennington  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:22:45pm

I'm getting 2 million bucks! I just got my notices...yeah, two on the same day!

The first is from a bank official in Nigeria who contacted me in order to help his client (who must be a relative from the "Motherland" - why else would he contact me?).

The client needs to move about 8 million dollars U.S. out of the country, and is willing to pay me a million dollars to help him. All I have to do is send him my banking information and a copy of my current ID.

The second notice is from Publisher's Clearinghouse. All I have to do is fill out a form and I'll be getting a million dollars. I'm going to donate at least 10 grand to LGF since I love this place so much.

Doesn't everyone wish they were as lucky as me? //

15 Bob Levin  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:33:04pm

Which Chandler story is that from?

16 Kruk  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:36:13pm

*bangs head repeatedly against I desk*

I give up. I absolutely, completely and totally give up on the human race.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

The worst part is that this person will no doubt be feted for "defying political correctness", "daring to speak the truth" or "addressing the controversy", and be made into a victim of the thought police.

17 TheQuis  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:39:37pm

Well, just in case anyone wants to complain about bills being too long. Here's what the RNC spokesman said about the new Census mailers after Congress passed a law banning their old ones. According to TPM:

Doug Heye, an RNC spokesman, told TPMmuckraker in a statement:

We were well within the new statute, as the committee will be of any further legislation on this issue. Any confusion is the result of vague or unclear legislative language. If the Democrats have this much trouble writing a relatively simple bill, how can they credibly write a coherent bill on health care, financial regulatory reform or jobs creation that run hundreds of pages?

If Republicans that are constantly yelling about legislation being too nanny state refuse to use common sense about what laws were intended then they can't yell and scream when 2700 page bills come along to try to account for all kinds of ways that other people will try to do the same thing.

18 sattv4u2  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:40:38pm

re: #15 Bob Levin

Which Chandler story is that from?

The one in which he stated it!
/

19 laZardo  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:46:06pm

re: #16 Kruk

*bangs head repeatedly against I desk*

I give up. I absolutely, completely and totally give up on the human race.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

The worst part is that this person will no doubt be feted for "defying political correctness", "daring to speak the truth" or "addressing the controversy", and be made into a victim of the thought police.

Well, that makes two of us. Goddammit, I wish I had three arms because a double-facepalm is not enough.

20 sattv4u2  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:48:00pm

re: #19 laZardo

Well, that makes two of us. Goddammit, I wish I had three arms because a double-facepalm is not enough.

Harvard

Bastion of progressive PC elitism!

21 Mark Pennington  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 11:48:06pm

I was in the fifth row at this awards show...trying to act like I was not moved. My wife who hates her was beside me staring out of the corner of her eye to make sure I was equally repulsed.


I wanted to get up and dance but knew it would end up looking like a combination of the sprinkler, the cash register, and Riverdance.

22 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:17:18am

re: #16 Kruk

*bangs head repeatedly against I desk*

I give up. I absolutely, completely and totally give up on the human race.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

The worst part is that this person will no doubt be feted for "defying political correctness", "daring to speak the truth" or "addressing the controversy", and be made into a victim of the thought police.

Don't give up, the human race is great, you just need to operate on the assumption that most of them are a whole lot stupider than us :D

/I wish I was kidding hahahaha

23 teleskiguy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:20:13am

My Ph.D father, who is one of America's unsung heroes, what with being a high school teacher since 1975, debating the niceties of Dos XX beer with a former student on facebook, has to be read to be believed.

Dos XX is the most putrid tasting crap in the universe---I have been in Mexico where that is all that they served,
and all I could do was spit it up, whereupon the vile effusion blinded a poor dog, making me feel the guilt of the ages descend on my poor soul---THAT POOR DOG! What gut burning putrecence, what malodorous stench... May the Catholic church slip a Dos XX to each and everyone of its pedofile priests---they are truly deserving of such hell!

Well played Dad! Makes me want to swill a Dos XX right now!

24 laZardo  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:21:20am

re: #23 teleskiguy

Yay verily. O:

25 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:25:19am

re: #23 teleskiguy

My Ph.D father, who is one of America's unsung heroes, what with being a high school teacher since 1975, debating the niceties of Dos XX beer with a former student on facebook, has to be read to be believed.

Well played Dad! Makes me want to swill a Dos XX right now!

Dos Equis makes a serviceable macro amber and a serviceable macro lager. Not amazing, but not bad. I wonder what beer he likes, if he's all RAAAAGE on Dos Equis? I've tried more different beers than I can count (easily in the thousands at this point) and it doesn't knock my socks off but it's all right.

best easily available macro from Mexico is Negra Modelo, IMHO.

26 laZardo  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:37:41am

re: #22 WindUpBird

Don't give up, the human race is great, you just need to operate on the assumption that most of them are a whole lot stupider than us :D

/I wish I was kidding hahahaha

From what I read on, well, you know what sites I hang out on, I'm bout ready to hope that they're right about 2012. D:

27 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:34:37am

Why, when they show a surveillance camera in a freaking closeup on a crime show, do they make it go "blink-blink-blink" and "beep-beep-beep"? Same think with time-bombs in thrillers. Are audiences really that stupid?

28 laZardo  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:56:24am

re: #27 Cato the Elder

John Bunnell's sneering tone is funny as fuck though. I often do impressions while playing GTA for extra kicks.

29 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:01:17am

re: #16 Kruk

*bangs head repeatedly against I desk*

I give up. I absolutely, completely and totally give up on the human race.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

The worst part is that this person will no doubt be feted for "defying political correctness", "daring to speak the truth" or "addressing the controversy", and be made into a victim of the thought police.

Damn straight. For which his 'bravery' might even be rewarded with some cushy posts. Larry Summers anyone?

30 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:03:32am

re: #29 iceweasel

Damn straight. For which his 'bravery' might even be rewarded with some cushy posts. Larry Summers anyone?

He best not be "brave" enough to venture outside the hallowed halls of Hahvahd Yahd!

There are some neighborhoods in close proximity that may not see the world as he does!

31 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:13:27am

NASA scientists last night unveiled compelling evidence of life on Mars.

A special mission to the Red Planet has revealed the likely presence of a form of pond scum - the building blocks of life as we know it.

Read more: [Link: www.thesun.co.uk...]


There was a sleazy bar I used to frequent that had the same life forms post midnight!

32 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:18:29am

The Obama administration is seeking to compel a writer to testify about his confidential sources for a 2006 book about the Central Intelligence Agency, a rare step that was authorized by Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr.

The author, James Risen, who is a reporter for The New York Times, received a subpoena on Monday requiring him to provide documents and to testify May 4 before a grand jury in Alexandria, Va., about his sources for a chapter of his book, “State of War: The Secret History of the C.I.A. and the Bush Administration.” The chapter largely focuses on problems with a covert C.I.A. effort to disrupt alleged Iranian nuclear weapons research.

Mr. Risen referred questions to his lawyer, Joel Kurtzberg, a partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel L.L.P., who said that Mr. Risen would not comply with the demand and would ask a judge to quash the subpoena.

“He intends to honor his commitment of confidentiality to his source or sources,” Mr. Kurtzberg said. “We intend to fight this subpoena.”

SNIP

ALLEGED?!

33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:20:30am

It was a dark and stormy night...

34 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:20:44am

Maj. Nadal Hasan is charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder in the Nov. 5 shooting. Premeditated murder carries the death penalty.

But if military jurors convict Hasan, they can only sentence him to death if they determine there is an aggravating factor in the case, according to military law.

Defence lawyer John Galligan said the notice he received from prosecutors outlines as an aggravating factor that more than one person was killed in the same incident.

"They've done everything except tell me to my face that they plan to seek the death penalty," Mr Galligan said.

Military prosecutors have not publicly said what punishment they plan to seek.

Richard Stevens, an attorney who defends military cases and is not involved in Hasan's case, said crimes that are ineligible for the death penalty do not require jurors to consider aggravating factors.

SNIP

35 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:21:06am

re: #33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It was a dark and stormy night...

I'm already skeeered!!!

36 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:23:30am

re: #30 sattv4u2

He best not be "brave" enough to venture outside the hallowed halls of Hahvahd Yahd!

There are some neighborhoods in close proximity that may not see the world as he does!

Interestingly, I was just reading this article about the extremely fucked-up hazing shit that Princeton fraternities do:

[Link: www.dailyprincetonian.com...]

“Either it’s going to be through swimming through a lake and getting hypothermia, or it’s going to be from massive alcohol poisoning,” he said. “Eventually, somebody’s probably going to die.”

So there's a bit of a fuss going on about this article now, but no one (AFAIK) is addressing an aspect I find particularly odd: (and the whole article is damn odd, with visits to strip clubs etc):

One senior, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, recalled his experience rushing Alpha Epsilon Pi, explaining that pledges were required to make trips to Philadelphia, where they had to complete tasks like peeing on the University of Pennsylvania’s famed “Split Button” sculpture or receiving a lap dance from a black stripper.

Pretty fucked up. For those who think Ivy League schools are havens of political correctness and affirmative action, uhhh....no.

37 sandbox  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:24:01am

re: #32 MandyManners

I'm surprised Eric Holder is still AT given his decision to move the KSM et al trials from military to civilian courts and the subsequent negative fallout. He's been a real gift to the Republican opposition.

38 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:30:09am

re: #36 iceweasel

Pretty fucked up. For those who think Ivy League schools are havens of political correctness and affirmative action, uhhh...no

Not only no,,, but HELL no

Remember, lots of these Ivy Leaguers are from very upper middle class to upper class old money families from both sides of the political spectrum whose only rubs with people of color were family servents

39 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:32:09am

re: #37 sandbox

I'm surprised Eric Holder is still AT given his decision to move the KSM et al trials from military to civilian courts and the subsequent negative fallout. He's been a real gift to the Republican opposition.

May he keep on giving!

40 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:33:25am

re: #38 sattv4u2

Pretty fucked up. For those who think Ivy League schools are havens of political correctness and affirmative action, uhhh...no

Not only no,,, but HELL no

Remember, lots of these Ivy Leaguers are from very upper middle class to upper class old money families from both sides of the political spectrum whose only rubs with people of color were family servents

Yep. Check this out:
Whiter and Wealthier: who rushes and why

“Date a Theta. Marry a Kappa. Fuck a Pi Phi.”

Ask a Princeton student to compare and contrast the University’s three sororities, and it’s entirely possible that this expression will come up.

Stereotypes surrounding Princeton’s sororities and fraternities are not uncommon on a campus with an unusual and often hostile relationship to its Greek organizations. While many of these — like the one mentioned above — are based on nothing more than students’ crude preconceptions, other stereotypes about the socioeconomic status and eating club affiliations of fraternity and sorority members have been supported by recent University surveys.

Members of Greek organizations are more likely to be white and wealthy than the general undergraduate population, according to the results of the Committee on Background and Opportunity (COMBO) surveys conducted May 2007 and April 2009. Roughly 88 percent of fraternity and sorority members are white, and 70 percent come from families with annual incomes greater than $150,000, according to COMBO survey results. Nearly 30 percent of students with family incomes greater than $500,000 are members of Greek organizations, the surveys found, compared to less than 10 percent of students with family income less than $150,000. And at those lower income levels, white students are significantly more likely to join Greek organizations than minority students.

41 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:35:56am

Fraternities and sororities are for people who know they couldn't handle basic training.

42 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:39:24am

re: #41 Cato the Elder

Fraternities and sororities are for people who know they couldn't handle basic training.

It's for those who lack the genuine fraternal and sororal instincts as well.

43 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:39:56am

re: #39 MandyManners

Good morning Mandy!

Did ya see my post from last night? I thought this would interest you.

re: #138 NJDhockeyfan

I didn't know HuffPo allowed an anti-semitic terrorist apologist to write for their website.

An Open Letter to UC Berkeley Students -- Passing the Israel Divestment Bill by Mustafa Barghouthi

44 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:43:21am
45 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:43:59am

re: #43 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning Mandy!

Did ya see my post from last night? I thought this would interest you.

re: #138 NJDhockeyfan

Lots of anti-Israel and historical revisionism in the open letter and the comments that follow.

46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:44:03am

re: #44 MandyManners

I know, right?

Code Pink is racist. Who'da thunk it?

47 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:44:44am

re: #46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know, right?

Code Pink is racist. Who'da thunk it?


It's right there in the name, they only like Pink people!!!
//

48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:45:01am

re: #44 MandyManners

re: #46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oops... I thought you'd linked Code Pink and Tea Partiers getting together.

49 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:45:30am

re: #46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know, right?

Code Pink is racist. Who'da thunk it?

Buncha angry old white women clinging to their shawls and bingo cards

50 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:48:09am

re: #45 rwdflynavy

Lots of anti-Israel and historical revisionism in the open letter and the comments that follow.

No surprise there. Barghouti has no love for Jews.

51 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:48:31am

re: #46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know, right?

Code Pink is racist. Who'da thunk it?

Anti-Semitic for sure.

52 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:48:36am

Buenos Dias Lagartos

53 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:48:59am

I am an idiot and I plan on proving it!!
//morning Honcos!!

54 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:49:11am

re: #50 MandyManners

No surprise there. Barghouti has no love for Jews.

The Puffington Host is really raising the bar on civil discourse.

55 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:51:01am

re: #54 rwdflynavy

The Puffington Host is really raising the bar on civil discourse.

?

56 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:51:40am

re: #49 sattv4u2

Buncha angry old white women clinging to their shawls and bingo cards

Cool. I'll be linking this whenever anyone tries to claim they're a threat. ;)

57 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:51:40am

re: #54 rwdflynavy

The Puffington Host is really raising the bar on civil discourse.

Some there wouldn't know civility if it bit them on their butts.

58 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:53:29am

re: #54 rwdflynavy

The Puffington Host is really raising the bar on civil discourse.


//
PIMF

59 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:54:31am

re: #56 iceweasel

Cool. I'll be linking this whenever anyone tries to claim they're a threat. ;)

Laugh if you will, but have you ever been choked by a shawl or cut with the sharp corner of a bingo card or hit in the eye with a bingo chip?

60 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:55:04am

re: #59 sattv4u2

Laugh if you will, but have you ever been choked by a shawl or cut with the sharp corner of a bingo card or hit in the eye with a bingo chip?

plus those big bingo markers could be used as a club!//

61 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:55:27am
62 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:56:22am

re: #49 sattv4u2

Buncha angry old white women clinging to their shawls and bingo cards

Spandex does seem to cling to a 300 pound douchebag.

63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:57:52am

re: #48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oops... I thought you'd linked Code Pink and Tea Partiers getting together.

I assumed your link was this... and made an ass out of me.

64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:58:59am

re: #62 Spare O'Lake

Spandex does seem to cling to a 300 pound douchebag.

Spandex is a privilege, not a right.

65 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:00:35am

re: #48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oops... I thought you'd linked Code Pink and Tea Partiers getting together.

[Link: codepink4peace.org...]

66 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:01:27am
67 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:01:29am

re: #64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Spandex is a privilege, not a right.

It should be restricted for everyone. Unless you are blond and in a Whitesnake video.

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:02:57am

re: #67 Cannadian Club Akbar

Tawny should always wear long flowing (yet clingy) dresses.

Of course, only my opinion.

Sofia.

69 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:03:21am

Republicans Relent, Will Let Debate Begin

Senate Republicans announced this afternoon that they will allow financial reform legislation onto the chamber floor for a debate after bipartisan talks hit an impasse.

Heh.

70 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:04:18am

re: #68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Tawny should always wear long flowing (yet clingy) dresses.

Of course, only my opinion.

Sofia.

Tawny is crazy. And don't say Sofia. We won't hear from Sat for like, 3 minutes!!
/

71 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:04:37am

Let's see if the anti-anti-illegal immigrant protestors are gonna' be civil on May Day.

72 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:05:15am

bbiab

73 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:06:02am

re: #68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Tawny should always wear long flowing (yet clingy) dresses.

Of course, only my opinion.

Sofia.

Hhhhmmmmmmmmm !

74 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:06:43am

re: #61 NJDhockeyfan

The Costco Prank


Went to the original site and that prank is awesome!!

75 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:06:54am

re: #71 MandyManners

Let's see if the anti-anti-illegal immigrant protestors are gonna' be civil on May Day.

I doubt it. They just can't help themselves. Did you see all the swastikas at last week's protests?

76 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:07:40am

re: #67 Cannadian Club Akbar

It should be restricted for everyone. Unless you are blond and in a Whitesnake video.

My all-time fave spandex babe.

77 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:09:07am

re: #74 rwdflynavy

Went to the original site and that prank is awesome!!

Nevermind, they just took it down. Costco must have gotten angry!

78 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:10:03am

re: #77 rwdflynavy

Nevermind, they just took it down. Costco must have gotten angry!

Welcome to Costco, I love you...

79 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:10:12am

Hey FBV, Rush stole your idea about giving illegals in AZ a free trip to SF. He's been reading the blog, me think.:)

80 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:10:44am

re: #69 iceweasel

Republicans Relent, Will Let Debate Begin

Heh.

From the little I read it's because they have convinced Dodd to not pursue his 50 billion gov't bailout fund, instead having the ultimate costs of a firm's failure shouldered by the financial industry, not taxpayers.

81 charlz  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:12:58am

re: #69 iceweasel

Heh.

Heh, indeed. McConnell says "Now that those bipartisan negotiations have ended, it is my hope that the majority's avowed interest in improving this legislation on the Senate floor is genuine and the partisan gamesmanship is over." How is one supposed to read that? The bipartisan negotiations were actually partisan gamesmanship?

82 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:15:43am

re: #81 charlz

Heh, indeed. McConnell says "Now that those bipartisan negotiations have ended, it is my hope that the majority's avowed interest in improving this legislation on the Senate floor is genuine and the partisan gamesmanship is over." How is one supposed to read that? The bipartisan negotiations were actually partisan gamesmanship?


I heard Harry Reid's quote today on the radio about the Republican filibuster being Anti-Senate and Anti-American. Huh?

83 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:17:57am

re: #70 Cannadian Club Akbar

Tawny is crazy. And don't say Sofia. We won't hear from Sat for like, 3 minutes!!
/

That includes 2 1/2 minutes of foreplay!

84 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:18:21am

re: #82 rwdflynavy

I heard Harry Reid's quote today on the radio about the Republican filibuster being Anti-Senate and Anti-American. Huh?

85 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:18:34am

re: #79 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hey FBV, Rush stole your idea about giving illegals in AZ a free trip to SF. He's been reading the blog, me think.:)

YOU SERIOUS?

86 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:18:58am

re: #85 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

YOU SERIOUS?

Very.

87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:19:28am

re: #83 sattv4u2

With her? Foreplay is (her to me) "Come here, stupid".

88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:19:59am

re: #86 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, I think it's clever as hell.

Rush? You. Are. Welcome.

89 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:20:39am

re: #81 charlz

Heh, indeed. McConnell says "Now that those bipartisan negotiations have ended, it is my hope that the majority's avowed interest in improving this legislation on the Senate floor is genuine and the partisan gamesmanship is over." How is one supposed to read that? The bipartisan negotiations were actually partisan gamesmanship?

It's almost as if the GOP realised that "JUST SAY NO" as a legislative strategy might not play well in November.

Heh.

90 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:22:50am

re: #79 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hey FBV, Rush stole your idea about giving illegals in AZ a free trip to SF. He's been reading the blog, me think.:)

He should at least give a h/t to FBV next time.

91 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:25:17am

re: #76 Spare O'Lake

My all-time fave spandex babe.

In addition to the incomparable Dianna Rigg as Emma Peel, honourable mentions go to Eartha Kitt and Julie Newmar as Catwomen.

92 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:25:40am

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

He should at least give a h/t to FBV next time.

I know 2 people can have the same idea at the same time, but Rush just parroted FVB. I swear to you. Can't find the transcript, though.

93 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:26:08am

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

He should at least give a h/t to FBV next time.

I think Rush actually has an account here. I believe he is Iceweasel.
//

Just kidding Ice!

94 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:26:46am

re: #93 rwdflynavy

I think Rush actually has an account here. I believe he is Iceweasel.
//

Just kidding Ice!

Please. We all know Ice is George Soros!!
///

95 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:28:27am

Didn't Rush mention LGF on his radio show a few years ago?

96 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:29:39am

re: #95 NJDhockeyfan

Didn't Rush mention LGF on his radio show a few years ago?

I think he used to link to it on his website.

97 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:30:15am

Race-fury pol in an ugly rant

ALBANY -- Tantrum-prone Sen. Kevin Parker yesterday denounced most of his Senate colleagues as "white supremacists" -- prompting Republicans to demand the Brooklyn Democrat's immediate censure.

The hotheaded senator, who was charged last year with roughing up a Post photographer, issued his condemnation while attempting to explain his fist-pounding, racially charged rant at a Senate Finance Committee hearing earlier in the day.

The senator insisted he was merely "fighting the forces of evil" when he attacked Sen. John DeFrancisco (R-Syracuse) for questioning a black Power Authority nominee over his views on contract preferences for minorities. "You have these long-term white supremacist . . . Republican senators who have been in the majority for a long time," Parker said on WWRL radio.

98 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:31:26am

re: #95 NJDhockeyfan

Didn't Rush mention LGF on his radio show a few years ago?

More than once, I believe, and I know he used to link LGF until very recently.

re: #93 rwdflynavy

I think Rush actually has an account here. I believe he is Iceweasel.
//

Just kidding Ice!


I know this because I am Rush. I've been found out! /

99 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:33:11am

re: #98 iceweasel

I know this because I am Rush. I've been found out! /

Naw, I think you're actually Lyndon LaRouche. :)

100 Ericus58  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:33:57am

Mexicans slam Arizona immigration law, but how do they treat their migrants?

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

"Mexico City – As Mexicans decry the Arizona immigration law and launch boycotts of Arizona, Amnesty International released a scathing new report urging Mexicans to look in the mirror.

“Invisible Victims: Migrants on the Move in Mexico” details the abuse faced by Central American migrants, who cross the southern border between Guatemala and Mexico, usually en route to the US."

101 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:35:47am

re: #100 Ericus58

If you're gonna wander around in Mexico, you better have your papers.

102 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:35:51am

re: #36 iceweasel

The Alpha Epsilon Pi Chapter at the university I went to was the "Jewish fraternity" on campus. Seriously.

Sigh. _Animal House_ is not to blame since it's essentially a over-the-top satire of some of the silliness young men get into once free of their parents and in a location where groupthink can rule. I just wish so many of them wouldn't take that movie as a primer and guide book about how they are supposed to act.
[end rant]

Apologies. Working as a fraternity volunteer for fifteen years makes this a subject that simply gets me wound up. Social fraternities (and their members) espouse all sort of positive values such as learning to be leaders and all you see in the media reports is the stupid, socially inept, irresponsible, (and sometimes dangerous) stunts and events they attempt to pull off. They're not all bad, but the reputation is such now that the few "bad apples" get the publicity and the default perception is that fraternity membership is a bunch of drunk, spoiled, rich brats.

103 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:38:03am

re: #102 oaktree

The Alpha Epsilon Pi Chapter at the university I went to was the "Jewish fraternity" on campus. Seriously.

Sigh. _Animal House_ is not to blame since it's essentially a over-the-top satire of some of the silliness young men get into once free of their parents and in a location where groupthink can rule. I just wish so many of them wouldn't take that movie as a primer and guide book about how they are supposed to act.
[end rant]

Apologies. Working as a fraternity volunteer for fifteen years makes this a subject that simply gets me wound up. Social fraternities (and their members) espouse all sort of positive values such as learning to be leaders and all you see in the media reports is the stupid, socially inept, irresponsible, (and sometimes dangerous) stunts and events they attempt to pull off. They're not all bad, but the reputation is such now that the few "bad apples" get the publicity and the default perception is that fraternity membership is a bunch of drunk, spoiled, rich brats.

Wolf Blitzer - A E Pi

104 Ericus58  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:38:42am

Shootings kill 16 people in Mexican border city

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

"Armed men burst into the Aristos bar in the middle of the night, said Arturo Sandoval, a spokesman for the Chihuahua state attorney general's office. Eight people were forced out into the parking lot and shot to death."


"In one incident, a car chase and shootout killed three people in front of an elementary school, creating a panic among students, teachers and parents.

Gunmen in a car chased down another vehicle and opened fire in front of the school around noon, said a teacher who asked not to be quoted by name out of fear for his safety.

The teacher said a pregnant teacher and three students suffered panic attacks and were taken to a hospital. Classes were canceled for the rest of the day, and parents rushed to pick up their children."


"The army, meanwhile, reported that it freed 16 hostages Tuesday at a house in Sabinas Hidalgo, a town near the northern city of Monterrey. One of the hostages was a 1-year-old child.

Troops acting on an anonymous tip arrived at the house in helicopters, a statement said. Gunmen opened fire and soldiers fired back from the air. Two people were found dead inside the house but it was unclear if they were captors or hostages.

Soldiers also seized two tons of marijuana, nine guns and a grenade launcher. It was unclear why the 16 people were being held hostage.

It was the second time in two days that soldiers freed hostages in the northern state of Nuevo Leon. On Monday, troops killed three suspected kidnappers and freed seven of their captives during a raid on a ranch. Two rotting bodies were found in a truck near the ranch."

105 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:39:06am

re: #100 Ericus58

Mexicans slam Arizona immigration law, but how do they treat their migrants?

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

"Mexico City – As Mexicans decry the Arizona immigration law and launch boycotts of Arizona, Amnesty International released a scathing new report urging Mexicans to look in the mirror.

“Invisible Victims: Migrants on the Move in Mexico” details the abuse faced by Central American migrants, who cross the southern border between Guatemala and Mexico, usually en route to the US."

Also if you enter Mexico illegally they lock you up in a shit hole prison. Mucho hypocrisy in Mexico.

106 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:39:15am

OK, the costco prank led me to several funny prank sites.

mischiefmakermanual

107 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:39:45am

re: #102 oaktree

The Alpha Epsilon Pi Chapter at the university I went to was the "Jewish fraternity" on campus. Seriously.

Sigh. _Animal House_ is not to blame since it's essentially a over-the-top satire of some of the silliness young men get into once free of their parents and in a location where groupthink can rule. I just wish so many of them wouldn't take that movie as a primer and guide book about how they are supposed to act.
[end rant]

Apologies. Working as a fraternity volunteer for fifteen years makes this a subject that simply gets me wound up. Social fraternities (and their members) espouse all sort of positive values such as learning to be leaders and all you see in the media reports is the stupid, socially inept, irresponsible, (and sometimes dangerous) stunts and events they attempt to pull off. They're not all bad, but the reputation is such now that the few "bad apples" get the publicity and the default perception is that fraternity membership is a bunch of drunk, spoiled, rich brats.

The media tends to cover stuff that fits the 'Animal House' meme.

I know not all Greek organisations are evil. The princeton frats seem a bit evil.
The big debate at princeton is whether the uni should recognise them or not. As someone involved in the greek system, what do you think? Would it help or not? Some people are claiming that the princeton culture is such that recognition wouldn't help.

108 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:41:37am

re: #105 NJDhockeyfan

Also if you enter Mexico illegally they lock you up in a shit hole prison. Mucho hypocrisy in Mexico.

Yep, and mucho suckers in America.

109 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:41:58am

Morning.

Bleh.

110 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:42:58am

re: #109 Jadespring

Morning.

Bleh.

Bleh.

111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:43:17am

re: #109 Jadespring

Morning.

Bleh.

meh.

112 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:43:32am

re: #109 Jadespring

Morning.

Bleh.

I feh your bleh

113 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:43:41am

re: #109 Jadespring

re: #110 Spare O'Lake

re: #111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

:)

114 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:44:02am

re: #101 Cannadian Club Akbar

If you're gonna wander around in Mexico, you better have your papers.

You can be an American and still wind up in jail in Mexico if you don't pay the bribe when they start scooping up drunk americans in some places. Friend of mine had a very unpleasant experience.

115 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:44:38am

Charlie Crist is gonna run as a "No Party Affiliation".

116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:45:25am

re: #115 Cannadian Club Akbar

He's yer boy, right?

117 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:45:26am

re: #114 iceweasel

You can be an American and still wind up in jail in Mexico if you don't pay the bribe when they start scooping up drunk americans in some places. Friend of mine had a very unpleasant experience.

There is a level of corruption in Mexico that would shock the average Chicago politician.

118 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:45:38am

Muslim students have difficulty with Holocaust lessons

LONDON - One in five history teachers in the four big cities has ever experienced the Holocaust that they hardly mentioned above could bring because Muslim students might have difficulty.

119 Ericus58  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:45:38am

re: #107 iceweasel

The media tends to cover stuff that fits the 'Animal House' meme.

I know not all Greek organisations are evil. The princeton frats seem a bit evil.
The big debate at princeton is whether the uni should recognise them or not. As someone involved in the greek system, what do you think? Would it help or not? Some people are claiming that the princeton culture is such that recognition wouldn't help.

My Wife graduated from U of North Dakota.
She was a Sorority member and eventually was it's President.
It was no animal house in anyway, and she remains semi-active as an alumni.

A few incidents are always served up as being indicative of the overall "Greek" experience. I view it as another 'jab' at a class/segment to make anyone involved as being high-brow and open to ridicule.

120 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:46:22am

re: #117 rwdflynavy

There is a level of corruption in Mexico that would shock the average Chicago politician.

And on a related note, Man on Fire is a great movie.

121 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:47:00am

re: #114 iceweasel

You can be an American and still wind up in jail in Mexico if you don't pay the bribe when they start scooping up drunk americans in some places. Friend of mine had a very unpleasant experience.

A guy I worked with crossed the border as a kid. The Mexican authorities picked him up and sent him home before he actually made it through. He was from El Salvador.

122 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:47:24am

re: #116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He's yer boy, right?

No.

123 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:47:27am

re: #115 Cannadian Club Akbar

Charlie Crist is gonna run as a "No Party Affiliation".

He seems to have no allies either. He reached out to the WH and was ignored.

Crist tried to call Rahm -- he didn't pick up

124 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:48:40am

re: #120 rwdflynavy

And on a related note, Man on Fire is a great movie.

He kills EVERYBODY!

DENZEL!

125 Ericus58  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:49:09am

re: #114 iceweasel

You can be an American and still wind up in jail in Mexico if you don't pay the bribe when they start scooping up drunk americans in some places. Friend of mine had a very unpleasant experience.

My son's hockey team while in San Diego for a tournament took a trip south with their rental vans - and didn't buy the insurance.
They were stopped by three police cars and had to "bargain" their way out - all the cash that the adults and kids had stayed behind.

126 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:50:41am

re: #119 Ericus58

My Wife graduated from U of North Dakota.
She was a Sorority member and eventually was it's President.
It was no animal house in anyway, and she remains semi-active as an alumni.

A few incidents are always served up as being indicative of the overall "Greek" experience. I view it as another 'jab' at a class/segment to make anyone involved as being high-brow and open to ridicule.

You (or she!) might like the links I gave. The sororities appear to be completely different at Princeton than the frats-- it's one of the reasons why people there are angry about the article. They don't have any of the hazing that the male organisations do, and the series talks to many sorority members who have great things to say.

127 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:51:34am

Oh, for the love of Pete...
[Link: www.google.com...]

128 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:51:42am

Now that Santa Clara County is going to ban Happy Meals, I'm wondering if McDonald's will come up with an alternative, Unhappy Meal. It could be a tofu burger (with vegan cheese), oven baked sweet potato fries and a soy skim milk. And the toy? MacNeil/Lehrer News Hour action figures.

129 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:52:45am

re: #128 Mad Al-Jaffee

Now that Santa Clara County is going to ban Happy Meals, I'm wondering if McDonald's will come up with an alternative, Unhappy Meal. It could be a tofu burger (with vegan cheese), oven baked sweet potato fries and a soy skim milk. And the toy? MacNeil/Lehrer News Hour action figures.

ICE!!! CHANGE YOUR AVATAR!! THIS IS A SIGN!!!
/

130 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:53:26am

Blog lets readers decide alleged hacker’s fate

TALK about walking the walk — one of the world’s biggest tech blogs is taking the idea of crowdsourcing to a new level by letting its readers decide whether or not to press charges against an alleged hacker.

Earlier this year, tech blog TechCrunch was compromised by a hacker who at various points redirected users to an adult site and defaced the homepage.

Now police think they’ve nabbed the culprit and TechCrunch has been asked if it wants to press charges.

But, in the spirit of Web 2.0, the blog is leaving that decision to its readers.

“We’re going to let you decide — do we press charges or just let this go? The poll is at the bottom of the post. Whatever you decide, we’ll do,” wrote founder Michael Arrington in a post.

131 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:53:31am

Work. Bye.

132 Ericus58  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:53:39am

re: #126 iceweasel

You (or she!) might like the links I gave. The sororities appear to be completely different at Princeton than the frats-- it's one of the reasons why people there are angry about the article. They don't have any of the hazing that the male organisations do, and the series talks to many sorority members who have great things to say.

I like sharing info with her - makes me look good... "Honey, it's because I'm thinking of you" ;)

Thank ye, Ice.

133 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:53:46am

re: #128 Mad Al-Jaffee

There are 3 McDonald's there. I hope they close the stores.

134 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:54:13am

re: #131 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Work. Bye.

Flounce!

135 steve_davis  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:54:34am

Yes, Raymond Chandler beats Spillane hands down!!

136 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:54:54am

Time to aggravate some real folks.
Laters gators.

137 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:56:32am

re: #133 Cannadian Club Akbar

There are 3 McDonald's there. I hope they close the stores.

I hope a black market develops, and people start selling the toys behind the McDonalds. "Pssst. Hey kid, wanna buy a Shrek doll?"

138 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:56:41am

April 29th...
3.5 inches of snow!
Still snowing...
I'd go back to bed if I weren't allready at
work!
I'm confused.........
May does follow April right?

139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:58:01am

re: #135 steve_davis

What about Patricia E. Presutti?

The bone-chilling scream split the warm summer night in two, the first half being before the scream when it was fairly balmy and calm and pleasant for those who hadn't heard the scream at all, but not calm or balmy or even very nice for those who did hear the scream, discounting the little period of time during the actual scream itself when your ears might have been hearing it but your brain wasn't reacting yet to let you know.

1986 Winner of the Bulwer-Lytton "Dark and Stormy Night" writing contest...

140 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:58:28am

re: #138 reloadingisnotahobby

April 29th...
3.5 inches of snow!
Still snowing...
I'd go back to bed if I weren't allready at
work!
I'm confused...
May does follow April right?

April showers bring May flowers and Mayflowers bring Pilgrims.

141 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:59:03am

re: #138 reloadingisnotahobby

April 29th...
3.5 inches of snow!
Still snowing...
I'd go back to bed if I weren't allready at
work!
I'm confused...
May does follow April right?

When I lived back in Boston winter didn't 'officially" end till we had our May snowstorm, which was usually preceded by several 70-80 degree days, and was proceeded by bouts of pneumonia!

142 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:00:01am

Good morning ... whazzup honcos?

143 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:00:16am

re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm afriad these "showers" have flatened all the bulds that were up and blooming.
I think Walter is getting it now also!

144 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:00:23am

re: #142 _RememberTonyC

Good morning ... whazzup honcos?

TC ,, whereya been!?!?

145 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:01:03am

re: #138 reloadingisnotahobby

I almost wore my winter coat this morning. And it's supposed to reach 70 this afternoon.

I can't wait for the humid, nasty, sticky Maryland heat! I'mlooking forward by cooling off every morning by waking up early before work and biking about ten miles.

146 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:01:23am

re: #132 Ericus58

I like sharing info with her - makes me look good... "Honey, it's because I'm thinking of you" ;)

Thank ye, Ice.

heh. here, I'll give you more:

From the Princetonian article I linked initally:

Sororities tend to have tamer pledge requirements than fraternities. Frances Schendle ’06, who joined Kappa Alpha Theta when she was a freshman, recalled that new members were required to be “on call” one night per week to run errands for the older sisters.

“Older girls could call on us to do things like go to Frist and buy a bag of candy and come eat it with them while watching ‘Sex and the City,’ ” she said. “The activities we had to go through as a pledge were meant to foster bonding as a class.”

Exactly.

It's a five part series-- you can find it all at the link. Also, the second bit I linked, notice it starts with this assessment of the princeton sororities: who you date, who you fuck, who you marry. Outrageous!

147 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:01:34am

re: #144 sattv4u2


backing off a bit from Lizard Nation ... too much hostility for my tastes (and some of it is my own).

148 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:01:54am

re: #141 sattv4u2

We were close to 80 last weekend.
Winds were from the N.E.yesterday afternoon and that
is RARE for our area.
The trees in town took a good hit.

149 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:02:36am

re: #147 _RememberTonyC

backing off a bit from Lizard Nation ... too much hostility for my tastes (and some of it is my own).

upding for the self awareness

150 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:03:09am

re: #145 Mad Al-Jaffee

Humid?? What's that?
Ha!When I went Penn... it was hard to breath!

151 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:04:13am

re: #150 reloadingisnotahobby

Humid?? What's that?
Ha!When I went Penn... it was hard to breath!

It's when walking outside feels like swimming. After the last few winters we've had, I never complain about heat in the summer.

152 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:04:16am

re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar

April showers bring May flowers and Mayflowers bring Pilgrims.

Upding for the Chaucer.

153 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:05:32am

re: #140 Cannadian Club Akbar

April showers bring May flowers and Mayflowers bring Pilgrims.

And it's the cruelest month. It's true! April is a popular 12 year old girl who makes fun of the dumpy, unpopular girls in her middle school!

154 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:05:39am

re: #149 sattv4u2

upding for the self awareness

i think lebron james and "elbowgate" is some sort of diva act.

155 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:07:13am

gotta run to work ... hope to BBL .... Go Celtics

156 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:07:59am

re: #107 iceweasel

The media tends to cover stuff that fits the 'Animal House' meme.

I know not all Greek organisations are evil. The princeton frats seem a bit evil.
The big debate at princeton is whether the uni should recognise them or not. As someone involved in the greek system, what do you think? Would it help or not? Some people are claiming that the princeton culture is such that recognition wouldn't help.

Complicated, and varies from campus to campus. Also, you need to make a distinction between "local" fraternities and "national" fraternities where the latter are a chapter of a national organization (and thus subject to whatever additional rules that entails.) And the university/college will have rules and regulations regarding campus student organizations and the qualifications needed to be recognized as one. The local Greek system may simply be a sub-set of this, or more likely has a extended set of rules specifically aimed at them. (One such rule would be that they're allowed to be single-gender organizations.)

A "local" is essentially only subject to whatever controls they put on themselves and the university and community laws they are subject to. You could almost just think of them as a social club that claims Greek letters as a name. And usually short-lived since with any sort of extended recruitment shortfall they will expire and disappear.

Often a "national" chapter is required to be recognized by the local university. (It's a default rule in the one I belong to, but I've also seen that requirement waived for a short period of time in a specific case or two.) Fraternities belonging to national organizations are also often required to carry liability insurance policies, follow regulations intended to address risk management (For example, a regulation might control alcohol use by the members at chapter-sponsored events by prohibiting the use of chapter fund to purchase alcohol, use of 3rd party vendors, BYOB, etc.)

A quick search on Princeton fraternities indicates that none of the Greek organizations are recognized by the university. Given that the sororities listed are "national" sororities that I recognize the names of I would presume that there is some sort of waiver going for university recognition. Further googling indicates that the social environment at Princeton is a mix of "eating societies", fraternities, and other organizations.

And the university seems split on whether to recognize, or attempt to eliminate the Greek fraternities. I presume the latter intent would be due to incidents the university find embarrassing (like the article triggering this conversation points to). And I didn't see what requirements the university would make in order to recognize.

Given that my viewpoint is that the university is getting divided input on how to handle the situation. The fraternities are already half-way "underground" and to outlaw them will simply drive them further that way and not eliminate them. Besides, you'll see an immediate outcry that they receive the same rights/privileges/recognition that any "eating society" or other voluntary student organization receives.

(And I'm a bit of a heretic in my circle because I believe that this should be the default standard and that special add-ons like IFC (Inter-Fraternity Council - a "government" organization for fraternities on a campus [that's the hearing in _Animal House_]) are trivial in impact.)

And, beyond that, I suspect that if you eliminated the Greek organizations there would still be roughly the same number of incidents on campus regarding undergraduates getting out of control. Perhaps fewer large-scale events due to the escapades being less organized. And perhaps fewer incidents regarding going to other schools and being disruptive for the same reason.
(more to follow)

157 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:09:34am

I just got creative in the kitchen. Buttered toast covered with fried bologna, Pace picante sauce, and fried eggs smothered in melted cheddar cheese.

158 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:10:37am

re: #157 NJDhockeyfan

I just got creative in the kitchen. Buttered toast covered with fried bologna, Pace picante sauce, and fried eggs smothered in melted cheddar cheese.

How's that 4 digit cholesterol count doing?

159 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:11:12am

re: #157 NJDhockeyfan

I just got creative in the kitchen. Buttered toast covered with fried bologna, Pace picante sauce, and fried eggs smothered in melted cheddar cheese.

Bonus points if it was "Scriebers Blue Ribbon" bologna.:)

160 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:11:17am

re: #156 oaktree

At my university, the Fiji frat (I don't know their real Greek name, that was their nickname) was disbanded after a long series of date-rape incidents and fights. All of which was completely accurate. They threatened physical harm to the head of the IFC.

Some frats are great. the Frats at MIT are a good example; they're still a bunch of geeks. But some frats really do live up to the stereotype, and they're still recognized as part of the greek system by the other frats. That's a problem.

161 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:12:10am

re: #158 sattv4u2

How's that 4 digit cholesterol count doing?

Feels great! I may go for the new chicken, bacon, cheese sandwich at KFC for lunch today.

162 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:12:55am

re: #159 Cannadian Club Akbar

Schriebers (not actually sure how to spell it!!)

163 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:13:10am

re: #159 Cannadian Club Akbar

Bonus points if it was "Scriebers Blue Ribbon" bologna.:)

Oscar Meyer chicken & pork bologna.

164 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:14:17am

re: #157 NJDhockeyfan

I just got creative in the kitchen. Buttered toast covered with fried bologna, Pace picante sauce, and fried eggs smothered in melted cheddar cheese.

The government should not allow you to eat fatty,high cholesterol foods like that!

165 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:15:01am

re: #163 NJDhockeyfan

I'm having leftover pizza. Peperoni, jalapenos and sausage.

166 sattv4u2  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:15:11am

re: #161 NJDhockeyfan

Feels great! I may go for the new chicken, bacon, cheese sandwich at KFC for lunch today.

I can hear your arteries hardening from here !

167 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:15:41am

re: #164 Mad Al-Jaffee

The government should not allow you to eat fatty,high cholesterol foods like that!

I'm locking the doors and pulling down the shades. Shhhhh.

168 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:15:56am

re: #160 Obdicut

Huh. Looks like Fiji at my school got started up again-- and the first thing I find about them is their president getting suspended for covering up a fight between his frat and another one.

Why the hell did they let them back in? Why would anyone join a frat with that sort of history, anyway?

169 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:17:37am

re: #156 oaktree


And the university seems split on whether to recognize, or attempt to eliminate the Greek fraternities. I presume the latter intent would be due to incidents the university find embarrassing (like the article triggering this conversation points to). And I didn't see what requirements the university would make in order to recognize.

Thanks so much for your very detailed and informative answer!

You're right-- my apologies, I should have made this clear-- Princeton has a very unique and weird relationship with the Greek societies.

They aren't recognised, and the university has even sent out letters to incoming students about the 'unrecignised' system--this is why:

Six years ago this spring, in a second-floor classroom in Frist Campus Center, there was a meeting that may have been the first of its kind. It was also the last.

Fourteen representatives of Princeton’s fraternities and sororities met with Dean of Undergraduate Students Kathleen Deignan to discuss the presence of Greek organizations at a university where they have long gone unrecognized and unregulated. The University’s decision to formally reach out to members of the Greek organizations on campus marked a major departure from its policy dating back to the mid-1850s of refusing to acknowledge their presence.

The subject of the meeting: rush. Administrators asked the fraternities and sororities to move rush from September to later in the academic year. The representatives from the fraternities and sororities rejected the request, and the meeting went nowhere.

The outcome: six years of silence.

Princeton seems very different from other places w/r/t frats etc; I was specifically asking if anyone knows why, or could give an informed argument (from within that system) for why it should be treated differently there than elsewhere.

Thanks for all this info though-- rereading now.

170 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:18:15am

re: #165 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm having leftover pizza. Peperoni, jalapenos and sausage.

I got breakfast brought to me this am.

Tim Horton's egg and sausage biscuit, two hasbrowns and a big coffee.

171 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:18:41am

re: #165 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm having leftover pizza. Peperoni, jalapenos and sausage.

Trade ya two eggs for two slices of pizza.

172 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:18:54am

re: #170 Jadespring

I got breakfast brought to me this am.

Tim Horton's egg and sausage biscuit, two hasbrowns and a big coffee.

Me love some Timmy's.:)

173 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:20:35am

re: #171 NJDhockeyfan

Trade ya two eggs for two slices of pizza.

No. Not even for gold or non-hybrid seeds. This is the best pizza in town.

174 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:21:01am

re: #170 Jadespring

I had fresh fruit, coffee and a slice of multigrain bread (toasted with cream cheese). I reserve the bacon and egg breakfasts for the weekend (often after getting home from a long ride.)

175 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:21:36am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area, and for those who have a Carvel store near you... great news - get your free ice cream today!

176 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:22:30am

re: #175 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area, and for those who have a Carvel store near you... great news - get your free ice cream today!

Cookie Puss!

Last night was 31 cent cone night at Baskin Robbins.

177 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:22:51am

re: #168 Obdicut


Why the hell did they let them back in? Why would anyone join a frat with that sort of history, anyway?

Why is April Confederate History Month?

It's history and we're honouring the past./

178 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:24:35am

re: #172 Cannadian Club Akbar

Me love some Timmy's.:)

Me too. My husband was feeling motivated this morning. I got up at seven thirty and found a note that he'd gone to run errands. By eight he was back, with breakfast and all the grocery shopping done.

179 stevemcg  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:24:36am

Anybody around here been watching The Pacific?

180 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:25:11am

re: #179 stevemcg

Anybody around here been watching The Pacific?

I have.

181 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:25:26am

(continuation - on the subject of fraternities)

(I suspect peeing on "the button" at Penn is less of a fraternity tradition than a Princeton tradition. There's a similar tradition at Pitt of attempting to pee on the Nittany Lion sculpture at Penn State. No comment on the lap dance thing - that's simply an example of the sort of stupidity you see when people get power over other people.)

In summary I think you're right that eliminating/recognizing fraternities at Princeton won't address the issue. They're a part of the social culture at Princeton, but not all of it. A solution would have to be much more complex and take into account the entire campus.

And Princeton is not alone with these issues. I'm still awaiting indications that a campus is willing to really sit down and work out a comprehensive plan with its resident Greek organizations that will truly build a cooperative program where the fraternities and sororities can be tapped for their organizational and leadership skills in exchange for recognition and benefits for the students and the organizations themselves. I've seen fits and starts in places, including fraternities that work with the campus to host orientation events. But more often I see "summits" that turn out essentially to be the university attempting to implement a plan and simply presenting it to the Greek organizations for a rubber stamp approval.

182 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:25:33am

re: #179 stevemcg

Anybody around here been watching The Pacific?

I would be, if my brother and sister in law still had HBO. We used to watch The Sopranos and The Wire together. I'm waiting for the dvds.

183 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:26:44am

re: #175 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area, and for those who have a Carvel store near you... great news - get your free ice cream today!

Can't top that! Here are some muppet cupcakes.

184 stevemcg  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:27:33am

re: #182 Mad Al-Jaffee

I would be, if my brother and sister in law still had HBO. We used to watch The Sopranos and The Wire together. I'm waiting for the dvds.

OK, I won't spoil it for you.

185 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:27:59am

re: #184 stevemcg

OK, I won't spoil it for you.

Our guys win, right?

186 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:28:26am

'Old Man River' lyrics trouble for teacher

A music instructor at a California college apologized to his class for giving them the classic song "Old Man River" with the original lyrics, officials say.

The song by Jerome Kern and Oscar Hammerstein is the most famous number in the musical "Showboat," first performed in 1927. The song has become a classic but the original lyrics include racial terms now considered unacceptable.

Beth Dobkin, the provost of St. Mary's College, a Catholic institution in the San Francisco area, said the college is considering whether Louis Lebherz, an artist-in-residence, should remain there, the Contra Costa Times reported. His brother is a trustee.

But there is zero outrage with the racist language in rap & hip hop music. Selective outrage anyone?

187 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:28:41am

Good Monrning everyone.
How was the overnight?

News on TV this morning about twitter grammar police. hmmm. Cato? That you?

188 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:29:59am

The UN Watch organization has sent a detailed letter to the UN High Commissioner of Human Rights demanding an end to anti-Israel and anti-Semitic discrimination.

The letter charges the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) with ignoring former U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan’s pledge that “the human rights machinery of the United Nations has been mobilized in the battle against anti-Semitism.”

SNIP

The immediate reason for the letter was the UNHRC’s refusal to remove from its website an anti-Semitic text (A/HRC/13/NGO/23) that falsely accuses Israeli doctors of a racist conspiracy to steal organs from Palestinian Authority Arabs. The text was submitted by the International Organization for Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, a group created in Libya and closely tied to Muammar Kaddafi’s regime.

SNIP

Neuer also noted another anti-Semitic statement by the same group that was published, distributed and web-hosted under the imprimatur of the UN Human Rights Council. Published in September 2008, the statement (A/HRC/9/NGO/1) called Israel an “illegal state,” and accused “Jews everywhere” of having “forgotten the terrors of the Holocaust to such an extent as to allow Israel to pursue and inflict one on the Palestinian people.” The statement remains on the UNHRC site even now.

Neuer then summed up the UNHRC’s record on Israel in its four years of existence: 40 condemnations of countries, including 33 against Israel… Of its nine emergency sessions criticizing countries, six have been against Israel. Recent and well-publicized killings of innocents in Iran, China, Nigeria, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kenya and Zimbabwe have gone completely ignored... The council’s agenda that governs every session features a permanent item targeting Israel; no other country in the world is singled out in this fashion.

SNIP

189 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:30:01am

re: #185 Mad Al-Jaffee

Our guys win, right?

I saw Patton last week and we won that war again. Damn, we are awesome!

190 Joo-LiZ  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:31:06am

I've been doing a lot of drive-by posts lately. I apologize for that, I just don't have the time lately that I once did.

But I need to vent.

I am sick and tired of people calling Obama's administration "openly anti-semitic" and all of the birther claims.

I think the administration has big problems. I want REAL criticism not childish stupidity!

191 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:31:31am

re: #189 NJDhockeyfan

I saw Patton last week and we won that war again. Damn, we are awesome!

America, America, Fuck yeah, Fuck yeah!

192 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:31:41am
193 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:31:45am

re: #160 Obdicut

At my university, the Fiji frat (I don't know their real Greek name, that was their nickname) was disbanded after a long series of date-rape incidents and fights. All of which was completely accurate. They threatened physical harm to the head of the IFC.

Some frats are great. the Frats at MIT are a good example; they're still a bunch of geeks. But some frats really do live up to the stereotype, and they're still recognized as part of the greek system by the other frats. That's a problem.

Right. If you cannot self-police someone else who you are affecting with your antics will. I think the major issue is that most members of fraternities (and arguably this is a general human issue, especially in the 18-22 year-old age group) are uneducated about the full consequences of their actions, or simply too short-sighted to care.

And the self-policing issue also applies *within* chapters. A poorly run, or non self-discipling group are the ones that will eventually run out of luck and have a major incident. In the meantime the bad actors will be covered for by the others simply because "they're brothers". (I rate that as the 2nd greatest facepalm thing to hear after the excuse "I was drunk".)

194 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:32:31am

re: #187 Rightwingconspirator

From a question yesterday...
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

195 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:32:45am

Heh.

SomethingAwful does the Death Panels:

[Link: www.somethingawful.com...]

196 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:33:16am

From the Provider of Gazan Social Services.

A Palestinian cleric preaching on Hamas TV said the volcano in Iceland and the volcanic ash that paralyzed European air travel were sent by Allah to punish "Infidels and polytheists with fear and terror."

Indicating that the volcanic eruption was Allah's punishment, the Hamas cleric cited a chapter of the Quran: "We [Allah] never destroyed a city unless its people were unjust." [Sura 28:59] He stressed this by comparing the eruption of the volcano to the flood sent by God in the times of Noah to punish humanity for its sins.

He also mocked the United States, saying its power is an illusion:

"As Allah lives, dear brothers, America - with its numbers and its equipment, with its might and its scepter, with its planes and its missiles, with its war ships and with its destroyers - it has no more power against Allah than do spider webs against His power."

SNIP

197 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:34:28am

re: #192 Dark_Falcon

Can't they say his committing murder on behalf of a totalitarian ideology was the aggravating factor.

The aggravating factor is the mulitple deaths.

198 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:37:26am

re: #168 Obdicut

Huh. Looks like Fiji at my school got started up again-- and the first thing I find about them is their president getting suspended for covering up a fight between his frat and another one.

Why the hell did they let them back in? Why would anyone join a frat with that sort of history, anyway?

For the former you'll find that the percentage of university donors that are Greek members is quite high. Plus I expect that the national organization for Fiji is quite good at colonizing universities.

As for their membership, I can't say. I didn't join the fraternity I did for the parties, events, etc. I was recruited by via the "Make friends, get them to join" mantra. I had friends who were Greeks, ended up hanging out at the house, and eventually joined.

There are a few national organizations who seem* to survive via a high turnover rate. Very good at getting going on a campus, and will keep coming back as they have a continuous cascade of failing chapters, growing chapters, and new chapters.

* - Note: This was as of the late-80s/early-90s when I was interacting with members and some execs from one of these organizations. They had 150+ chapters, and at any point they were re-colonizing at 20 places that had previously failed.

199 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:37:34am

re: #129 [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] Club Akbar

ICE!!! CHANGE YOUR AVATAR!! THIS IS A SIGN!!!
/

What? Change again?

200 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:37:59am

re: #175 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area, and for those who have a Carvel store near you... great news - get your free ice cream today!

Fudgie the Whale!

201 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:38:33am
202 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:38:55am

re: #193 oaktree

Yep. That's my one biggest problem with fraternities-- in general, it seems like they close ranks to protect brothers, when they should be the first to turn in, spurn and eject any brother who has done something wrong.

Anecdotal, of course, but even with the nice frats at MIT, there was definitely a strong division between what was told to people outside about things and what was told inside.

On the other hand, the Fifth East (a totally 'normal' university dorm) was a far wilder place, with heavy open drug use, pyrotechnics, and other wacky mad-science stuff. So if someone asked which was a safer, saner, and better overseen environment, I'd have said most of the frats over that one residence hall.

So universities can fail in the same way as frats can; everyone knew Fifth East was a problem, but nobody did anything about it until one guy-- a friend of mine-- died from nitrous oxide physical overdose.

[Link: www.dailyfreepress.com...]

203 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:40:02am

re: #183 iceweasel

The Mrs. loves her the Muppets, but for cupcakes, there can be only one - Crumbs.

204 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:40:20am

Gazans unhappy with their provider of Social Services.

Security forces of the Islamist group Hamas detained Palestinian political activists overnight for distributing leaflets urging them to ease up on the people of Gaza or face a possibly explosive revolt.

An official of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) told Reuters several members were arrested late on Tuesday and set free on Wednesday.

The PFLP leaflets were the strongest public criticism yet of Hamas, which seized control of the Gaza Strip in 2007 and has been clamping down on any behaviour it sees as un-Islamic, while recently levying new taxes on the 1.5 million inhabitants.

SNIP

It urged the territory’s Islamist rulers to stop violating freedoms, oppressing political opponents and imposing taxes on small businesses in the enclave, whose borders with Israel and Egypt are tightly controlled.

The price of a pack of cigarettes, most of which are smuggled in via tunnels from Egypt, has been raised to cover a 3 shekel (80 cent) tax which goes to Hamas. Another group, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP), urged peaceful protests against Hamas taxes.

SNIP

Hamas tax: Local traders say the group is trying to patch up its depleted finances and calculate this tax will yield it about $6 million per month. The PFLP also noted a new Hamas move to take over uninhabited housing and offer it to their members. . PFLP leaders said they had urged Hamas in a face-to-face meeting recently to ease up. The Hamas administration denied it had imposed any new tax and said it had only “activated a tiny section of the taxation system”. Mezher said the PFLP had plenty of testimony to the contrary from ordinary people. Many government employees said they had not yet been paid for the month of March.

205 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:41:06am

re: #201 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does that mean there's no Muslims in Europe?

Good question.

206 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:41:46am

An Islamic cleric has sparked a worldwide movement I can support.

Boobquake celebrates 'scandalous bodies'

A worldwide protest against an Iranian cleric's suggestion that immodestly dressed women cause earthquakes is gaining magnitude in Vancouver.

"Boobquake," the brainchild of Indian university student Jen McCreight, urges women worldwide to satirize cleric Hojatoleslam Kazem Sedighi Monday by revealing a little cleavage -- or ankle, for the modest.

"This is more than just parading around your boobs," said Mission's Sam Anderson, 24, who is rallying friends to take part.

"This is about letting people know that these comments are absolutely ridiculous-- so we're going to respond with something even more ridiculous. I think there will be a lot of cleavage in Vancouver Monday."

The protest is shaking up debate around the world. By Saturday night, more than 22,400 had answered McCreight's call to bare breast cleavage on her official Facebook event site.

Sedighi told Iranian media on April 16 that social decency could help avoid the recent devastating earthquakes that have struck worldwide.

207 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:41:59am

re: #199 iceweasel

What? Change again?

That one's evil. I like it.

208 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:43:07am

re: #190 Joo-LiZ

The Obama Administration isn't anti-Semitic, but it is hopelessly naive when it comes to the Middle East foreign policy and its wishful thinking on nuclear proliferation, particularly with Iran is especially troublesome.

In fact, I think the Administration's policy is to hope that technical challenges keep Iran from going nuclear on his watch, because any attempts at sanctions are going to result in nothing more than a weakly worded statement that will be easily circumvented. Moreover, Iran continues to show intent to obtain raw nuclear materials from any and all sources, including Zimbabwe, so that it can process and enrich it as they see fit.

209 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:44:10am

re: #204 MandyManners

Gazans unhappy with their provider of Social Services.

Security forces of the Islamist group Hamas detained Palestinian political activists overnight for distributing leaflets urging them to ease up on the people of Gaza or face a possibly explosive revolt.

What a surprise. Hamas tries to get its fingers into everything. Totalitarians are like that, and people need to be reminded of that truth. Thank you, Mandy.

210 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:45:04am

re: #203 lawhawk

The Mrs. loves her the Muppets, but for cupcakes, there can be only one - Crumbs.

I've been really tired of the gourmet cupcake trend for a couple of years now.

It looks like the new trend here is pie. $28 dollar pies.

211 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:45:10am

re: #169 iceweasel

Ah, yes. Greek Rush.

I personally *hate* the system used by most fraternities and sororities. It artificially pushes a massive event calendar onto the first 3-4 weeks of a term. As a result you end up with fraternities in a dog-eat-dog competition to sign pledges, exhausted members who are now probably a week behind in their academic schedules, and the odds are that at least one of the organizations was holding illegal events (e.g. alcohol provided) in an attempt to recruit.

I've been in meetings twice with university Greek Life/Student Living deans where I have asked about the possibility of simply eliminating the Rush Period. Oddly enough this went absolutely nowhere both times.

I've long been an advocate of year-round rush. Spread it out, take out the haste to get pledges while the university recognizes it, and allow the time for a potential pledge to view a fraternity at leisure to see how they *really* act and then make an informed decision from there whether to join one, and then which one to join.

212 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:45:51am

re: #208 lawhawk

sanctions regime!!

213 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:46:35am

re: #208 lawhawk

The Obama Administration isn't anti-Semitic, but it is hopelessly naive when it comes to the Middle East foreign policy and its wishful thinking on nuclear proliferation, particularly with Iran is especially troublesome.

In fact, I think the Administration's policy is to hope that technical challenges keep Iran from going nuclear on his watch, because any attempts at sanctions are going to result in nothing more than a weakly worded statement that will be easily circumvented. Moreover, Iran continues to show intent to obtain raw nuclear materials from any and all sources, including Zimbabwe, so that it can process and enrich it as they see fit.

Agreed. Obama is unlikely to have the US undertake serious unilateral action, but I don't think that's entirely about Obama being weak. Much of it is likely that he does not want to hurt other foreign policy objectives by incurring the diplomatic penalty unilateral actions would entail.

214 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:46:56am

re: #209 Dark_Falcon

There were reports yesterday that the Egyptians blew up a smuggling tunnel killing a bunch of Palestinians, who further claimed that the Egyptians used poison gas at the same time.

A Hamas security official in charge of the tunnel area along the border said the Egyptians filled the passage with some type of crowd dispersal gas. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to give his name.

The Hamas Interior Ministry later said in a statement the gas used to try to clear the tunnel was poisonous. Besides those killed, six people were injured, it said.

"The Interior Ministry confirms that the citizens' cause of death was the Egyptian security forces spraying poison gasses into one of the tunnels," the statement said without elaborating.

A doctor at a hospital in the Gaza border town of Rafah, Hamdan Abu Latifa, said the dead smugglers suffocated.

Or, maybe the smugglers were transporting something that when detonated caused a gas that could suffocate those folks? Naw, Hamas is merely hoping to stoke violence towards Egypt, which continues to keep the border closed with Gaza (and doesn't take nearly the grief that Israel does for doing the same).

215 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:48:00am

Providers of Gazan Social Services are pissed at Egypt.

Egyptian forces pumped gas into a cross-border tunnel used to smuggle goods into the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, killing four Palestinians, Hamas officials said.

Egypt has been under pressure to seal off the hundreds of tunnels that are a key economic lifeline for the blockaded Palestinian territory but which are also used to bring in weapons for the Islamic militant group.

SNIP

A Hamas security official in charge of the tunnel area along the border said the Egyptians filled the passage with some type of crowd dispersal gas. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to give his name.

The Hamas Interior Ministry later said in a statement the gas used to try to clear the tunnel was poisonous. Besides those killed, six people were injured, it said.

SNIP

216 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:48:12am

re: #210 Mad Al-Jaffee

Pie? Not a big fan of pies - except the pizza variety. In which case, I've got a couple of thin crust gems in my area to attend to my tastes.

217 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:48:18am

re: #214 lawhawk

There were reports yesterday that the Egyptians blew up a smuggling tunnel killing a bunch of Palestinians, who further claimed that the Egyptians used poison gas at the same time.

Or, maybe the smugglers were transporting something that when detonated caused a gas that could suffocate those folks? Naw, Hamas is merely hoping to stoke violence towards Egypt, which continues to keep the border closed with Gaza (and doesn't take nearly the grief that Israel does for doing the same).

odds that we'll see a UN resolution claiming that Egypt is perpetrating a Holocaust of its own?

218 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:48:56am

re: #205 MandyManners

Mandy, if you've never seen this, you should:

Dawkins getting a very slimy Islamic cleric to admit the sentence for apostasy is death under his version of Islam, in an Islamic country.

Money quote:

"The penalty for apostasy in the Christian religion is not death. The penalty is not anything at all and we should respect Christianity for being a comparatively tolerant religion."

219 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:49:01am

re: #209 Dark_Falcon

What a surprise. Hamas tries to get its fingers into everything. Totalitarians are like that, and people need to be reminded of that truth. Thank you, Mandy.

You're welcome!

I wonder what they buy with all that money? Diapers? Infant formula? School supplies?

220 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:49:58am

re: #216 lawhawk

Pie? Not a big fan of pies - except the pizza variety. In which case, I've got a couple of thin crust gems in my area to attend to my tastes.

Me too. You can actually get good pizza in NY? No way!

221 badger1970  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:49:59am

re: #210 Mad Al-Jaffee

No offense, but I've seen Mrs. Smith pies come out better than than that top picture. But then again, I don't see the niche of "gourmet" pies.

222 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:50:33am

re: #202 Obdicut

Yep. That's my one biggest problem with fraternities-- in general, it seems like they close ranks to protect brothers, when they should be the first to turn in, spurn and eject any brother who has done something wrong.
SNIP

I personally think fraternity members should hold each other to a *higher* standard than normal. After all, we're supposedly recruiting better men...

And the real solution for a fraternity is to be more discerning when recruiting. Quality control after you have initiated a member is much more difficult than such control when you're selecting potential members. (And one of the major pitfalls that destroy chapters is when they get desperate for membership and start simply recruiting bodies. Things go rapidly downhill from there. Been there, done that, have closed the doors and turned off the lights.)

223 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:51:12am

re: #216 lawhawk

Pie? Not a big fan of pies - except the pizza variety. In which case, I've got a couple of thin crust gems in my area to attend to my tastes.

Pizza pie...mmm. Pecan pie.. also mmm.

225 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:51:35am

re: #221 badger1970

No offense, but I've seen Mrs. Smith pies come out better than than that top picture. But then again, I don't see the niche of "gourmet" pies.

Me either. I would never pay $28 for a pie. It's a food trend, and all of the "foodies" (god I hate that word!) go to places like that because it's hip and cool.

226 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:51:43am

re: #219 MandyManners

You're welcome!

I wonder what they buy with all that money? Diapers? Infant formula? School supplies?

No.

The UN agency for Palestinian refugees on Thursday launched a campaign to distribute some 200,000 laptops to schoolchildren in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip, a spokesman said.

The UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) plans to distribute half a million devices to refugees across the Middle East by the end of 2012, spokesman Adnan Abu Hasna said.

“The campaign is beginning today in refugee schools in (the southern Gaza town of) Rafah, with the distribution of 2,200 laptops as part of a plan to distribute 200,000 laptops to our students in the Gaza Strip,” he said.

SNIP

227 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:52:02am

re: #218 Obdicut

Mandy, if you've never seen this, you should:

Dawkins getting a very slimy Islamic cleric to admit the sentence for apostasy is death under his version of Islam, in an Islamic country.

[Video]

Money quote:

"The penalty for apostasy in the Christian religion is not death. The penalty is not anything at all and we should respect Christianity for being a comparatively tolerant religion."

I'll take a gander at it! Thanks!

228 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:55:31am

re: #224 Killgore Trout

The Sous Vide Supreme: At $449, Succulent, or Just Suck? (REVIEW, PHOTOS)

The sous vide is like the ultimate man eater, turning the Iggy Pops of raw meat into a gently cooked, crowd pleasing Jonas brothers.

Win.

229 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:56:24am

U.S. President Barack Obama told Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas that he was committed to seeing the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state within two years, an Egyptian official told the Arabic-language daily Al-Hayat on Thursday.

Obama promised Abbas that the United States would make great effort to help see that Palestinian goal achieved, the official told the London-based newspaper.

SNIP

According to the report, Israel told Mitchell that it could not guarantee such a move before beginning direct peace negotiations with the Palestinian Authority.

In place of withdrawing troops, the official told Al-Hayat, Israel offered other goodwill gestures, such as removing checkpoints and releasing certain Palestinian prisoners.

SNIP

230 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:56:33am

re: #228 iceweasel

The sous vide is like the ultimate man eater, turning the Iggy Pops of raw meat into a gently cooked, crowd pleasing Jonas brothers.

Win.

A lot of people are excited about it but I haven't tried it yet.

231 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:57:47am

re: #224 Killgore Trout

I'll stick with my Big Green Egg and my cast iron ware.

232 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:58:23am

re: #231 Mad Al-Jaffee

I'll stick with my Big Green Egg and my cast iron ware.

Don't get me wrong, I love cast iron and I have two very well seasoned pans but you can't use em for everything.

233 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:58:57am

re: #224 Killgore Trout

The Sous Vide Supreme: At $449, Succulent, or Just Suck? (REVIEW, PHOTOS)

Personally, I was excited to receive the Sous Vide Supreme, loved using it, enjoyed every single result, and am happy to return it to its owner. The Sous Vide Supreme may be a maneater, but it's more passive aggressive homemaker than dominatrix. The fun of home cooking is in the challenges that the sous vide effortlessly overcomes. If you fall into this camp, save yourself the money, and in the kitchen, let it get a little rough.

Yeah I kinda had that thought. It's just too easy. Like, what if they made a pill that could make you skinny and muscular? No exercise required for that six-pack. You just didn't earn it.

234 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:59:13am

May Glamour: For A Flatter Belly, Cut Back On Breathing

According to May's Glamour, you're "irresistible" to your guy when you blow him while watching TV — just don't swallow, or you might lose that flat belly.

Actually, Glamour isn't explicit about the bloating properties of semen. It does, however, warn against inappropriate breathing. Yes, breathing incorrectly can result in your abdomen "filling up like a balloon" (we thought that was the point), creating a "distended" look. Glamour offers some supposedly slimming breathing tips, but really, why bother with respiration at all? Dispensing with this unnecessary practice will make TV blowjobs easier too!

235 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:59:15am

Defense Minister Ehud Barak was hosted on Tuesday at the Pentagon by US Defense Secretary Robert Gates. After an honor guard welcome, the two men held a press briefing affirming their shared commitment to the US-Israel relationship and strong military ties in the face of shared regional threats.

Gates spoke of the growing capabilities of Hizbullah, though he didn’t confirm reports that it had acquired Scud missiles from Damascus.

“Syria and Iran are providing Hizbullah with rockets and missiles of ever- increasing capability,” he said. “We are at a point now where Hizbullah has far more rockets and missiles than most governments in the world. And this is obviously destabilizing for the whole region, and so we’re watching it very carefully.”

Barak underscored the threat of Iran to the wider Middle East and international community, expressing support for the American sanctions-and-diplomacy approach at the current time but warning that it should be of short duration.

“The time is clearly, at this stage, time for sanctions and diplomacy. We expect the sanctions to be effective and to be limited in time so we will be able to judge to what kind of results stem from the sanctions regime,” he said.

A Hizbullah official on Wednesday slammed Gates’s comments accusing the group of having more weapons than most governments, and pledged to continue arming.

SNIP

236 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:59:55am

re: #233 cliffster

Yeah I kinda had that thought. It's just too easy. Like, what if they made a pill that could make you skinny and muscular? No exercise required for that six-pack. You just didn't earn it.

yeah, i'm having trouble seeing the downside of that one...

237 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:00:01am

re: #232 Locker

Don't get me wrong, I love cast iron and I have two very well seasoned pans but you can't use em for everything.

I use the Egg for grilling/barbecuing and my dutch oven for stews, chilis, braised meats, etc. And I have a decent wok for stir frying and a pizza stone for pizza and bread (I also use the dutch oven for no-knead bread.)

What more do I need? A good chef's knife, which I'm planning to get for my birthday next month.

238 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:01:10am

re: #236 Aceofwhat?

yeah, i'm having trouble seeing the downside of that one...

Looking for that "exercise crock pot"..

239 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:01:15am

re: #237 Mad Al-Jaffee

I use the Egg for grilling/barbecuing and my dutch oven for stews, chilis, braised meats, etc. And I have a decent wok for stir frying and a pizza stone for pizza and bread (I also use the dutch oven for no-knead bread.)

What more do I need? A good chef's knife, which I'm planning to get for my birthday next month.

Well, I didn't really get that the egg was a cooking tool. I thought it was some reference to Dr Seuss.

240 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:01:19am

re: #228 iceweasel

For $449, I could get myself a full set of Wusthof knives, which improve the preparatory experience far more - and would be used far more frequently than the sous-vide.

241 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:01:40am
242 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:02:11am

re: #239 Locker

Well, I didn't really get that the egg was a cooking tool. I thought it was some reference to Dr Seuss.

Only if you have it with ham.

243 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:02:26am

re: #234 iceweasel

May Glamour: For A Flatter Belly, Cut Back On Breathing

the comments are the best part...

OK. Blowjobs during TV are not always cool.

My boyfriend missed not only Aragorn's fight with the Uruk Hai but also the battle of Helm's Deep that way due to our mid-movie banging.

And I simply can not date someone who doesn't have basic LOTR knowledge.

that's an awesome female specimen right there...heh

244 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:02:47am

re: #241 reloadingisnotahobby

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]


How the hell do know if an Iranian "Chick" has a tan??

245 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:03:32am

Hezbollah helps the Provider of Gazan Social Services.

An Egyptian court Wednesday convicted 26 men of spying for the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah and planning terrorist attacks in Egypt, handing down prison terms ranging from 25 years to six months.

The trial — commonly referred to as the "Hezbollah cell trial" — involved two Lebanese, five Palestinians, a Sudanese and 18 Egyptians. It was held in the heavily guarded State Security Emergency court whose verdict can be reversed only by a presidential pardon.

The charges against the group included: plotting attacks against tourists; targeting vessels crossing the Suez Canal; spying; training agents; building explosive belts and devices; and smuggling weapons to the Islamist Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip.

SNIP

In April 2009, Egypt's security apparatus said it had uncovered a cell belonging to Hezbollah and accused its members of planning to disrupt the country's safety and stability.

At the time, Hassan Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leader, admitted he'd sent one of the defendants, Mohamed Mansour, also known as Samy Shehab, to facilitate delivery of weapons into the Palestinian-inhabited Gaza Strip. Nasrallah, as well as the defendants, denied they had planned any attacks against Egypt.

Three of the accused were also charged with digging smuggling-tunnels under their homes into Gaza, and with harboring militants.

SNIP

246 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:03:44am

re: #239 Locker

Well, I didn't really get that the egg was a cooking tool. I thought it was some reference to Dr Seuss.

The Big Green Egg is awesome! Wake up at three in the morning, throw some ribs in, they're falling off the bone that afternoon.

247 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:04:07am

re: #244 reloadingisnotahobby

How the hell do know if an Iranian "Chick" has a tan??

I volunteer to be a tan line inspector!

248 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:04:13am

re: #240 lawhawk

For $449, I could get myself a full set of Wusthof knives, which improve the preparatory experience far more - and would be used far more frequently than the sous-vide.

After reading Kitchen Confidential, I want to get msyelf a Global chef's knife. Bourdain says they're as good as the expensive German knives, and you can get a decent one for around $100.

249 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:04:25am

re: #243 Aceofwhat?

Gawker's lampooning of Cosmo and other womens' mag covers is hilarious.

250 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:05:39am

re: #215 MandyManners

Providers of Gazan Social Services are pissed at Egypt.

Egyptian forces pumped gas into a cross-border tunnel used to smuggle goods into the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, killing four Palestinians, Hamas officials said.

Wow. This is akin to a 'If Israel did that can you imagine the _________(fill in blank).'

251 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:05:54am

Mideast nearing 'explosion,' Jordan's Abdullah says

Jordan's King Abdullah II warned Thursday that the situation in the Middle East could "explode" due to Israel's building of settlements in East Jerusalem.

"I am afraid the tension could develop into an explosion with all parties paying the price," the monarch said in a speech to the annual conference of Jordanian ambassadors.

His comments came ahead of a meeting this weekend of the Arab League in Cairo, which may herald the resumption of indirect talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

252 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:06:07am

re: #240 lawhawk

For $449, I could get myself a full set of Wusthof knives, which improve the preparatory experience far more - and would be used far more frequently than the sous-vide.

I've got a set of Henckles that I really, really like. Heavy, balanced, sharp as hell. Never again will I use the crapola knives you get for free at the grocery.

253 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:06:20am

re: #240 lawhawk

For $449, I could get myself a full set of Wusthof knives, which improve the preparatory experience far more - and would be used far more frequently than the sous-vide.

I would love just one Wusthof knife.

Hey you! as a Metro Noo yawker-- question.

Places you'd take an out of towner. Assume Statue of liberty, staten island ferry, brooklyn bridge, major museums all done. Suggestions? Looking for non-obvious suggestions here. Your faves?

254 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:06:53am

re: #234 iceweasel

May Glamour: For A Flatter Belly, Cut Back On Breathing

O, fer gawd's sake!

I tried to write something brilliant, but I'm just - speechless at the silliness and stupidity.

255 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:06:59am

re: #246 cliffster

The Big Green Egg is awesome! Wake up at three in the morning, throw some ribs in, they're falling off the bone that afternoon.

I've had mine for 11 years. Definitely worth the $500 I paid for it back then.

I'm playing at a gathering of Big Green Egg enthusiasts this Saturday:

[Link: www.waldorfeggfest.com...]

I'm getting paid to have fun and eat great food!

256 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:08:24am

re: #246 cliffster

The Big Green Egg is awesome! Wake up at three in the morning, throw some ribs in, they're falling off the bone that afternoon.

Very cool. Currently I'm using an Old Smokey Electric Smoker for my pulled pork, ribs, chicken, etc. I really like it but that egg is drawing me in... I can feel it.

257 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:08:26am

re: #255 Mad Al-Jaffee

I've had mine for 11 years. Definitely worth the $500 I paid for it back then.

I'm playing at a gathering of Big Green Egg enthusiasts this Saturday:

[Link: www.waldorfeggfest.com...]

I'm getting paid to have fun and eat great food!

Big Green Egg Festival. Sweet.

258 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:08:49am

re: #253 iceweasel

I would love just one Wusthof knife.

Hey you! as a Metro Noo yawker-- question.

Places you'd take an out of towner. Assume Statue of liberty, staten island ferry, brooklyn bridge, major museums all done. Suggestions? Looking for non-obvious suggestions here. Your faves?

Central Park, Flatiron building, the Village, Katz's Deli. Those are places I like to see when I visit family there.

259 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:09:57am

re: #249 lawhawk

Gawker's lampooning of Cosmo and other womens' mag covers is hilarious.

Reminds me of this classic I managed to salvage from a now-defunct site. Just as relevant today as it was when first created!

260 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:10:03am

re: #248 Mad Al-Jaffee

After reading Kitchen Confidential, I want to get msyelf a Global chef's knife. Bourdain says they're as good as the expensive German knives, and you can get a decent one for around $100.

Saw the Maine episode of No Reservations last night. That show never gets old and always, always makes me hungry.

261 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:10:11am

re: #226 MandyManners

And many of those laptops will be taken by corrupt officials for resale. So once again, the good deed money will end up in Swiss bank account (or Grand Cayman or wherever).

BBL

262 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:10:32am

re: #246 cliffster

The Big Green Egg is awesome! Wake up at three in the morning, throw some ribs in, they're falling off the bone that afternoon.

Even better - put a pork shoulder (picnic or boston butt) on at night, let it cook for 12-20 hours and have real pulled pork barbecue the next day.

263 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:10:56am

a wusthof knife is worth its weight in gold. And it's pretty heavy. Just sharpening it makes you closer to God.

264 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:11:00am

The Taliban leader in Pakistan, Hakimullah Mehsud, survived an American drone strike in January and is alive and well, a senior official with Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence agency told the Guardian today.

Mehsud was reported to have died in a CIA drone strike in South Waziristan in January but, although Pakistan's interior minister claimed he had been killed, the death was never confirmed by either US or Pakistani intelligence.

Today the senior intelligence official said he had seen video footage of the missile attack on Mehsud but other intelligence had since confirmed the insurgent leader survived. He declined to elaborate further.

"He is alive," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "He had some wounds but he is basically OK."

Mehsud's apparent survival will be a blow to the CIA, which intensified efforts to kill the flamboyant young Taliban leader early this year after he appeared in a video alongside an al-Qaida operative who killed seven American spies at a base in southern Afghanistan in late December.

SNIP

265 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:11:16am

re: #206 NJDhockeyfan

An Islamic cleric has sparked a worldwide movement I can support.

Boobquake celebrates 'scandalous bodies'

When they had the Boobquake event a couple of days ago there was an earthquake in Taiwan. They covered the whole thing on a news segment up here. It was so funny to watch the announcers try not to laugh and giggle.

266 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:11:29am

re: #260 Locker

Saw the Maine episode of No Reservations last night. That show never gets old and always, always makes me hungry.

Bourdain has one of the best jobs in the world.

267 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:12:07am

re: #250 Oh no...Sand People!

Wow. This is akin to a 'If Israel did that can you imagine the ___(fill in blank).'

The UNHCR would go ape-shit.

268 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:12:23am

re: #253 iceweasel

I would love just one Wusthof knife.

Hey you! as a Metro Noo yawker-- question.

Places you'd take an out of towner. Assume Statue of liberty, staten island ferry, brooklyn bridge, major museums all done. Suggestions? Looking for non-obvious suggestions here. Your faves?

Can I play too?

Make sure you get out to Coney Island for a dog and the behind the scenes tour at MSG is also cool. I may have shared this one with you before but it's great because it offers alternatives to the old standards:

Ten Things Not to Do in New York City

269 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:12:23am

re: #231 Mad Al-Jaffee

I'll stick with my Big Green Egg and my cast iron ware.

Me too. I'll give it a try out of curiosity but I think it's a fad that will pass.

270 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:13:06am

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

And many of those laptops will be taken by corrupt officials for resale. So once again, the good deed money will end up in Swiss bank account (or Grand Cayman or wherever).

BBL

Or, they'll be used to further the Gazan Provider of Social Service's plans to attack Israel.

271 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:13:08am

re: #262 Mad Al-Jaffee

Even better - put a pork shoulder (picnic or boston butt) on at night, let it cook for 12-20 hours and have real pulled pork barbecue the next day.

I love buying one of the cheapest piece of meat on the display, taking it home and making it delicious and tender as hell. Screw you, filet.. who needs you?

272 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:14:50am

Amateur model known as 'Katya' revealed as Russian honeytrap bait

Ekaterina Gerasimova has piercing blue eyes, an innocent girl-next-door face, and likes to do a little amateur modelling.

But if her "victims" are to be believed, she is the Kremlin's most effective secret agent and a latter-day Mata Hari.

Her mission, it is claimed, is to discredit prominent Kremlin critics by luring them into compromising situations using vintage KGB honey trap techniques.

Offering her own body, sex, and drugs from cocaine to marijuana as an inducement, "Katya" as she is usually known has tried and often succeeded in bedding at least half a dozen high-profile Kremlin critics.

The reputational damage she has inflicted has varied from serious to negligible depending on her victim's marital status and response.

Her latest victim was Viktor Shenderovich, a journalist and the script writer on Russia's now defunct version of the Spitting Image TV satire.

Mr Shenderovich, who is married and has a daughter, admits that he slept with Ms Gerasimova but claims he was set up by the Kremlin.

Though he has tried to laugh the incident off, his credibility as an authoritative critic of Vladimir Putin, the prime minister, appears to have been at least partly dented by the sting and his marriage is now reportedly in trouble.

273 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:15:11am

Since the foodies are here: Volume 2 of the LGF cookbook is now available!

274 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:15:35am

re: #262 Mad Al-Jaffee

Even better - put a pork shoulder (picnic or boston butt) on at night, let it cook for 12-20 hours and have real pulled pork barbecue the next day.

What a harsh treatment for such a succulent piece of deliciousness. FIRST you have to brine it over night in a nice mix of pickling salt, cold water, ice and molasses. Then you dry it off and give it a nice dry rub, THEN you put it on the smoker.

My passion for pulled pork can not be denied.

Additionally, I find the very, very best sauce for pulled pork is basically sweet pickle juice mixed with some yellow mustard and hot sauce, we use Frank's.

275 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:16:00am

re: #271 cliffster

I love buying one of the cheapest piece of meat on the display, taking it home and making it delicious and tender as hell. Screw you, filet.. who needs you?

Me too, but those expensive cuts of meat are also great on the egg. I'm considering doing a whole boneless ribeye for my birthday party.

276 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:17:19am

Baby boy survives for nearly two days after abortion

The 22-week infant died one day later in intensive care at a hospital in the mother's home town of Rossano in southern Italy.

The mother, pregnant for the first time, had opted for an abortion after prenatal scans suggested that her baby was disabled.

However, the infant survived the procedure, carried out on Saturday in the Rossano Calabro hospital, and was left by doctors to die.

He was discovered alive the following day – some 20 hours after the operation – by Father Antonio Martello, the hospital chaplain, who had gone to pray beside his body.

He found that the baby, wrapped in a sheet with his umbilical cord still attached, was moving and breathing.

The priest raised the alarm and doctors immediately arranged for the infant to be taken to a specialist neo-natal unit at the neighbouring Cosenza hospital, where he died on Monday morning.

Italian police are investigating the case for "homicide" because infanticide is illegal in Italy.

The law means that doctors have had an obligation to try to preserve the life of the child once he had survived the abortion.

The Italian government is also considering an inquiry into the conduct of the hospital staff.

277 badger1970  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:17:57am

re: #266 Mad Al-Jaffee

Bourdain has one of the best jobs in the world.

Except when he was presented with that baked iguana. //

278 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:18:13am

re: #274 Locker

I do use a dry rub, but no brine. Brine will make it taste like ham.

I make a Carolina style sauce for mine, with cider vinegar, ketchup, salt, red and black pepper, hot sauce, sugar and a couple of other ingredients. It's perfect on pulled pork.

279 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:18:22am

A Nigerian senator accused of marrying a 13-year-old Egyptian girl says he has done nothing wrong.

Ahmad Sani Yerima, 49, told the BBC that his fourth wife was not 13, but would not say how old she was.

He denied breaking the law but said he would not respect any law that contradicted his religious beliefs.

The Nigerian senate ordered an investigation after complaints from women's groups but the senator said he did not care what the groups thought.

Mr Sani was the governor of Zamfara state, where he oversaw the introduction of Sharia law - for the first time in a northern state - in 1999.

SNIP

"I don't care about the issue of age since I have not violated any rule as far as Islam is concerned," he said.

"History tells us that Prophet Muhammad did marry a young girl as well. Therefore I have not contravened any law. Even if she is 13, as it is being falsely peddled around.

SNIP

Aisha was either six or five, depending on the calender one uses.

280 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:18:32am

re: #253 iceweasel

I would love just one Wusthof knife.

Hey you! as a Metro Noo yawker-- question.

Places you'd take an out of towner. Assume Statue of liberty, staten island ferry, brooklyn bridge, major museums all done. Suggestions? Looking for non-obvious suggestions here. Your faves?

If you're going to get one Wusthof, get yourself a Santoku. It will work wonders for prepping vegies and meats. Or, for a whole lot less, get a paring knife, which will also do wonders in food prep.

As for the NYC metro area sites to see: NY Botanical Garden (Bronx) or the Brooklyn Botanic Garden (BBG). Also, the Brooklyn Museum, which has one of the world's largest collections of Egyptian art outside of Egypt (or the Louvre). The BBG and Brooklyn Museum are next to each other, so if you've got good weather - hit the garden, if not - the museum.

You could do a walk around the West Village/Greenwich Village. I'd pass on a walk of Little Italy, which is actually a disappointing thing given that it's now just one corridor block and the food prices aren't worth it.

Hudson River Park - start at the Battery and you can walk along the Hudson pretty much up to midtown and have stunning views. Great for photography.

USS Intrepid Sea Air Space Museum. Has an A-12, spacecraft, Concorde, USS Growler, and countless other aircraft and exhibits.

Catch a game at the SI Yankees (adjacent to the SI Ferry and great views of Manhattan).

Coney Island is a bit of a downer these days, but four things stand out - The Cyclone. Nathans. Brooklyn Cyclones (Mets minor league affiliate at Keyspan Park). NY Aquarium.

281 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:19:47am

re: #277 badger1970

Except when he was presented with that baked iguana. //

I haven't seen that one. I think he's lucky since he travels like 10 months a year, all in the name of food and culture. He certainly worked hard to get where he is today.

282 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:20:22am
283 Spider Mensch  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:21:48am

re: #253 iceweasel

I would love just one Wusthof knife.

Hey you! as a Metro Noo yawker-- question.

Places you'd take an out of towner. Assume Statue of liberty, staten island ferry, brooklyn bridge, major museums all done. Suggestions? Looking for non-obvious suggestions here. Your faves?

depends what your's and his interest lie..Nature..Bronx Zoo can fill a day. Beaches galore within an hour and a half drive Long island and NJ. a warm May day at the beach, no crowds, waters chilly, but you can dip your toes. Mountains and hiking? 2 hour drive, Delaware Water gap Natl park in NJ Penn border is fun. Baseball, two teams to choose from, both playing well. have you done Broadway yet? that is a must...I could give you hints all day long...but go by your interests.

284 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:21:50am

re: #278 Mad Al-Jaffee

I do use a dry rub, but no brine. Brine will make it taste like ham.

I make a Carolina style sauce for mine, with cider vinegar, ketchup, salt, red and black pepper, hot sauce, sugar and a couple of other ingredients. It's perfect on pulled pork.

Brine does NOT make it taste like ham! I'm highly offended! Hehe just kidding but yea I love the brine, the molasses adds a nice smokey flavor and the cumin based dry rub balances it out nicely.

The Carolina sauce I like is that freaking mustard sauce ya'll put on your ribs. I'm a complete and total addict. Out here at one of the indian casinos they have an all you can eat bbq buffet on sundays and it's pretty good. I don't eat dessert, I don't eat any brisket as every single inch of space is reserved for more Carolina mustard ribs.

More please!

285 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:22:30am

Former CIA Spy Andrew Warren Arrested in Hotel With Drug Paraphernalia, Handgun

A former rising star at the CIA accused of drugging, raping and taping Muslim women while stationed in the Middle East appeared before a federal judge in Virginia today after skipping a pre-trial hearing more than a week ago and going on what sources called an apparent drug binge. Andrew Warren was arrested after an intensive search by federal officials concerned he might be a danger to himself.

According to two federal law enforcement sources, drug paraphernalia and a handgun were found in the Virginia motel room where Warren, former CIA chief of station in Algeria, was arrested. Warren sat in a wheelchair during his Monday afternoon court appearance.

A person close to Warren told ABC News that State Department officials began searching for Warren 11 days ago after he missed a routine pre-trial appearance and could not be found. "His phones were shut off, and none of his family or friends had heard from him," the person told ABC News.

Warren, 42, was located after federal law enforcement officers reached out to his friends and family, warning them that they were concerned for Warren's safety and believed he was armed and consuming crack cocaine. He was arrested by local police, U.S. Marshals and the State Department's Diplomatic Security Service at a Norfolk, Virginia Ramada Limited hotel late Monday. He was taken by law enforcement officials to a local hospital.

286 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:22:37am

re: #268 Locker

Century 21 is across the street from my office, so I see the craziness up close and personal. The Century 21 outlets in Brooklyn or Paramus are less crazed, and just as dealworthy.

I wouldn't worry about Tavern on the Green. It's closed and dead to the world (and the food sucked for years previously, but it got along nicely because it was Tavern.On.The.Green).

Agree with the no pedicab (subways/buses are better and more reliable). Meatpacking is fashionable district, but pricey. Better cupcake places than Magnolia.

Hit Grimaldis or Johns on Bleecker for pizza (by the pie only).

Top of the Rock has better views - because you can actually get a better view of the Empire State Building than going up the ESB.

287 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:23:17am

Persons engaged in illegal propaganda of 'Jehovah's Witnesses' sect detained in the west of Azerbaijan.

The police detained residents of Baku Salatin Isgandarova and Shafiga Mammadova, and resident of the Gedabey region Gulnaz Hasanova for illegal propaganda of religious movement in the region Agstafa April 26. The officers seized 408 pamphlets with religious content, whose promotion and dissemination are prohibited, the Interior Ministry told Trend.

SNIP

288 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:23:34am

re: #280 lawhawk

If you're going to get one Wusthof, get yourself a Santoku. It will work wonders for prepping vegies and meats. Or, for a whole lot less, get a paring knife, which will also do wonders in food prep.

I got a nice set of forged knifes when we got married. Love the Santoku. The set came with a small and a large one. I barely use any other knifes then those ones. My chef knife is gathering dust in the drawer now.

289 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:24:07am

re: #285 NJDhockeyfan

Former CIA Spy Andrew Warren Arrested in Hotel With Drug Paraphernalia, Handgun

He should never see the light of day again.

290 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:24:19am

re: #284 Locker

I use brine for smoked turkey, and sometimes I'll do a quick brine (just a couple of hours) for chicken parts. And when I make bacon (no euphomism here, I mean actually curing and smoking pork!) I use a salt based cure, which is a lot like a brine.

I prefer a thicker tomato-based sauce for ribs, and I almost always serve it on the side.

291 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:24:25am

Green Egg question. Personally, I've never used a charcoal device to smoke anything (always electric) and I'm wondering about how often you have to change fuel for something like a 12 hour smoke on a boston butt?

Seems like it might be inconvenient but I have no point of reference.

292 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:25:15am

re: #283 Spider Mensch

Gateway National Recreation Area (which includes locations in NJ - Sandy Hook, Brooklyn, and Queens)- abundant wildlife, particularly migratory birds.

It's past time, but Branch Brook Park in Newark has the largest collection of Japanese cherry trees in the US - more than DC, and they've gone past bloom in the past week.

Also in NJ - Grounds for Sculpture in Hamilton NJ.
Hoboken NJ has a riverwalk for great views of Manhattan.
Liberty Science Center in Jersey City (accessible from the Hudson/Bergen light rail).

293 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:26:02am

re: #283 Spider Mensch

You should check out the Williamsburg neighborhood of Brooklyn.

294 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:26:39am

China Imposes More Tariffs on U.S. Chickens


In a growing trade dispute with the United States, China on Wednesday imposed more duties on U.S. chicken imports into the country, the second time in three months the country has levied taxes on American chicken products.

The new duties raise total taxes on China-bound chickens to 31.4 percent, which could vary slightly by producer.

The Chinese Commerce Ministry said that the tariffs apply to whole chickens and parts, but not live or already-cooked chickens. Some analysts say that the new tariffs are retaliation for the United States imposing tariffs three months ago on Chinese made tires.

295 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:27:16am

re: #291 Locker

Green Egg question. Personally, I've never used a charcoal device to smoke anything (always electric) and I'm wondering about how often you have to change fuel for something like a 12 hour smoke on a boston butt?

Seems like it might be inconvenient but I have no point of reference.

When I do an overnight cook, I just load the firebox fullof lump charcoal
(and a couple of wood chunks) and it almost always lasts all night and most of the next day.

296 Joo-LiZ  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:27:18am

re: #213 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Obama is unlikely to have the US undertake serious unilateral action, but I don't think that's entirely about Obama being weak. Much of it is likely that he does not want to hurt other foreign policy objectives by incurring the diplomatic penalty unilateral actions would entail.

Other foreign policy objectives like what?

I really haven't seen much, aside from the START treaty.

297 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:27:34am

HE was, perhaps, Belgium's greatest 20th-century figure; a globe-trotting reporter who earned worldwide recognition for his adventures in the company of a faithful dog and a drunken sailor.

But Tintin faced ignominy yesterday as he was dragged before a court in his native land to be accused of racism and xenophobia.

Lawyers told a judge in a Brussels civil court that “Tintin in the Congo” _ the second book in the series _ should be banned in Belgium or at least sold with a warning that it contains material likely to shock readers.

SNIP

Mbutu Mondondo's arguments were backed in 2007 by the UK Commission for Racial Equality, which ruled that Tintin in the Congo contained “hideous racial prejudice.” The volume has since been sold in Britain with a sticker warning but Mbutu Mondondo has faced stiffer resistance in Belgium, where he first brought a criminal action against the book more than three years ago.

SNIP

298 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:28:44am

re: #290 Mad Al-Jaffee

I use brine for smoked turkey, and sometimes I'll do a quick brine (just a couple of hours) for chicken parts. And when I make bacon (no euphomism here, I mean actually curing and smoking pork!) I use a salt based cure, which is a lot like a brine.

I prefer a thicker tomato-based sauce for ribs, and I almost always serve it on the side.

If I don't do the mustard ribs I like dry rub ribs with no sauce, Memphis style. If a guest asked I'd either serve some standard tomato based sauce on the side or I'd give em a quick brushing and 45 seconds under the broiler.

299 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:29:04am

re: #284 Locker

The Carolina sauce I like is that freaking mustard sauce ya'll put on your ribs. I'm a complete and total addict. Out here at one of the indian casinos they have an all you can eat bbq buffet on sundays and it's pretty good. I don't eat dessert, I don't eat any brisket as every single inch of space is reserved for more Carolina mustard ribs.

More please!

clearing the bread, dessert, and other detritus out to make room for more meat is just the sensible thing to do...i agree completely-

300 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:29:25am

re: #251 NJDhockeyfan

Mideast nearing 'explosion,' Jordan's Abdullah says

Abdullah should shut the fuck up before more people realize that his little kingdom is right smack where the Palestinian state is supposed to be.

301 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:30:51am

Dissident Cuban journalist Dania Virgen García apparently struck her 23-year old daughter during a fight. In less than 48 hours, she was arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced to 20 months in prison.

Havana human rights activist Elizardo Sánchez said Wednesday he'll need a week or two to thoroughly investigate the arrest of García, 41, who also marched often in support of the Ladies in White.

But Sánchez said he has a strong hunch: ``It could well be a case of political repression, taking advantage of a family situation.''

That's not uncommon, he added, in a country where the government can easily drum up an array of criminal charges against opponents of the communist system.

Sánchez said he obtained preliminary information on the case after his Cuban Commission for Human Rights and National Reconciliation sent an investigator to the Havana home García shared with her daughter, Suzy, and 2-year-old nephew.

``The daughter was reticent to speak, but the family seemed to be hostile to [García's] dissident activities,'' he said. ``She said her mother was properly sent to jail because of abuses . . . She also said maybe there [in prison] she would change her dissident activities.''

SNIP

``Things in Cuba are not well at all, but I am going to continue this struggle to the death or until whatever they want happens; I will continue to support the Ladies in White, even if they continue to beat us, because what they want is for us to be afraid and we are not going to allow that to happen,'' García wrote in a recent post.

SNIP

302 Spider Mensch  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:30:56am

re: #292 lawhawk

Gateway National Recreation Area (which includes locations in NJ - Sandy Hook, Brooklyn, and Queens)- abundant wildlife, particularly migratory birds.

It's past time, but Branch Brook Park in Newark has the largest collection of Japanese cherry trees in the US - more than DC, and they've gone past bloom in the past week.

Also in NJ - Grounds for Sculpture in Hamilton NJ.
Hoboken NJ has a riverwalk for great views of Manhattan.
Liberty Science Center in Jersey City (accessible from the Hudson/Bergen light rail).

Yup, the wife I and the baby already had our first day at Sandy Hook on one of our early 70 degree days about a month ago. and right in my back yard as I have posted here before is this wildlife gem 5 miles from manhattan. it's a birders paradise right now....[Link: meadowblog.typepad.com...]

303 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:31:00am

re: #274 Locker

What a harsh treatment for such a succulent piece of deliciousness. FIRST you have to brine it over night in a nice mix of pickling salt, cold water, ice and molasses. Then you dry it off and give it a nice dry rub, THEN you put it on the smoker.

My passion for pulled pork can not be denied.

Additionally, I find the very, very best sauce for pulled pork is basically sweet pickle juice mixed with some yellow mustard and hot sauce, we use Frank's.

I did pulled pork a few months back in a crockpot (no grill or smoker access in an apartment w/o a balcony.) Didn't brine the pork shoulder, but it got a nice dry rub and sat in the fridge for over a day wrapped in plastic before cooking. Finished it using a "steak" sauce called Werewolf and topped the sandwiches with either pickles or bread-n-butter jalapenos.

305 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:32:07am

re: #300 Alouette

New avatar? Cute!

306 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:32:12am

re: #302 Spider Mensch

Yup, the wife I and the baby already had our first day at Sandy Hook on one of our early 70 degree days about a month ago. and right in my back yard as I have posted here before is this wildlife gem 5 miles from manhattan. it's a birders paradise right now...[Link: meadowblog.typepad.com...]

If you are into nature and are heading out to Jersey I recommend checking out the Great Swamp Wildlife Refuge. It's out in Morris County where I also used to live and it's wonderful.

307 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:32:43am

Shocking headline of the day courtesy of the AP:

Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law

Many of the cars that once stopped in the Home Depot parking lot to pick up day laborers to hang drywall or do landscaping now just drive on by.

Arizona's sweeping immigration bill allows police to arrest illegal immigrant day laborers seeking work on the street or anyone trying to hire them. It won't take effect until summer but it is already having an effect on the state's underground economy.

"Nobody wants to pick us up," Julio Loyola Diaz says in Spanish as he and dozens of other men wait under the shade of palo verde trees and lean against a low brick wall outside the east Phoenix home improvement store.

Many day laborers like Diaz say they will leave Arizona because of the law, which also makes it a crime to be in the U.S. illegally and directs police to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants.

Supporters of the law hope it creates jobs for thousands of Americans.

Well, it would also increase the costs of doing business - since day laborers provide much of the labor in such manpower intensive businesses like farming, landscaping, and construction. Costs in those areas are likely to rise as a result.

But remember - these are illegal aliens here in the country illegally (hence the illegal part). So, where are they going to go? Back to their countries of origin? Or other states?

309 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:34:07am

re: #303 oaktree

I did pulled pork a few months back in a crockpot (no grill or smoker access in an apartment w/o a balcony.) Didn't brine the pork shoulder, but it got a nice dry rub and sat in the fridge for over a day wrapped in plastic before cooking. Finished it using a "steak" sauce called Werewolf and topped the sandwiches with either pickles or bread-n-butter jalapenos.

Good stuff. Our traditional way of serving the pulled pork is in a sandwich, topped with that sweet pickle juice+mustard+hotsauce mix, some fresh made cole slaw on a nice cheap bun. We normally serve sweet pickle potato salad as a side and often that is used as a replacement for the cole slaw on the sandwiches.

4 hours till lunch....

310 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:34:30am
311 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:34:46am

re: #302 Spider Mensch

I've hiked along the DeKorte Park trails - great views of Manhattan. Anyone driving along the Western Spur of the NJ Turnpike drives right past the park - often without noticing it.

312 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:35:13am

re: #301 MandyManners

gaston

313 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:35:23am

re: #307 lawhawk

My guess is they'll just go to other states. But it's not just illegals, I would not at all be surprised to see Latinos (legal or not) leaving Arizona in droves.

314 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:36:22am

Any Looney Toons/Tex Avery fan will appreciate last night's South Park.

315 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:36:22am

Fucking Nanny State is at it again.

The latest target in the battle over fast food is something you shouldn't even put in your mouth.

Convinced that Happy Meals and other food promotions aimed at children could make kids fat as well as happy, county officials in Silicon Valley are poised to outlaw the little toys that often come with high-calorie offerings.

The proposed ban is the latest in a growing string of efforts to change the types of foods aimed at youngsters and the way they are cooked and sold. Across the nation, cities, states and school boards have taken aim at excessive sugar, salt and certain types of fats.

SNIP

Because we parents are too freakin' stupid to raise our kids by ourselves.

316 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:36:33am

re: #305 Mad Al-Jaffee

New avatar? Cute!

Yes, that is my 26th grandbaby, the newest scion of our clan of Zionist Overlords.

317 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:37:18am

re: #315 MandyManners

See my #128

318 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:37:27am

re: #315 MandyManners

Fucking Nanny State is at it again.

The latest target in the battle over fast food is something you shouldn't even put in your mouth.

Convinced that Happy Meals and other food promotions aimed at children could make kids fat as well as happy, county officials in Silicon Valley are poised to outlaw the little toys that often come with high-calorie offerings.

The proposed ban is the latest in a growing string of efforts to change the types of foods aimed at youngsters and the way they are cooked and sold. Across the nation, cities, states and school boards have taken aim at excessive sugar, salt and certain types of fats.

Because we parents are too freakin' stupid to raise our kids by ourselves.

It takes a village, and all ...

319 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:38:23am

re: #300 Alouette

The Middle East is always nearing an explosion - primarily because the Arab states are always teetering on collapse and need to get everyone to focus on the shiny object that always exceeds expectations (Israel), rather than the miserable failures throughout the Arab world where personal rights are absent and millions are subjugated and kept in deplorable conditions expressly for political purposes.

But King Abdullah knows all too well that his own existence owes a great deal to putting down the Black September revolt (a civil war between the PLO and Jordanian kingdom).

320 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:38:31am

re: #304 reine.de.tout

A clinic and an obstetrician sued Oklahoma on Tuesday, the day it enacted a harsh and restrictive law that would subject a doctor to felony charges if the doctor "knowingly or recklessly performs or attempts to perform an abortion." H.B. 2780 also requires doctors to show a woman an ultrasound photo of her embryo or fetus while simultaneously describing its particular features. And it allows a woman's brother to sue her doctor, even if his sister requested the abortion.

H.B. 2780 was enacted on April 27 over Gov. Brad Henry's veto. It takes effect immediately.

Nova Health Systems dba Reproductive Services and Dr. Larry Burns say it is unconstitutionally vague, violates women's and doctor's constitutional speech rights, is an impermissible special law, and "impermissibly burdens the fundamental rights of plaintiffs' patients to terminate a pregnancy and avoid unwanted speech in a private setting."

SNIP

321 Spider Mensch  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:38:45am

re: #306 Locker

If you are into nature and are heading out to Jersey I recommend checking out the Great Swamp Wildlife Refuge. It's out in Morris County where I also used to live and it's wonderful.

the wife and I used to hike out there occassionally...Jockey Hollow and all that area..we went for a hike once near the audubon society hq, somewhere around Basking Ridge, bernardsville area, memory not exact, anyhow, while following a trail we found the beginning of The Passaic River..a sparkiling clean little stream you can walk barefoot through. it was quite the lovely area. and for anyone who knows the Passaic River, it's hard to believe it's origin is a beautiful clean little stream in the woods.

322 sagehen  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:38:45am

re: #253 iceweasel

Hey you! as a Metro Noo yawker-- question.

Places you'd take an out of towner. Assume Statue of liberty, staten island ferry, brooklyn bridge, major museums all done. Suggestions? Looking for non-obvious suggestions here. Your faves?

High-Line park is pretty cool; take a picnic (maybe from Zabar's).

The intrepid (46th st & Hudson River). Then go two blocks south and rent bicycles at the 44th St Pier; ride up the Hudson River boardwalk and through Riverside Park. Depending on your stamina, maybe all the way up to the GW Bridge. There's some restaurants in the park where you can stop (the one at the pier on 70th street is actually pretty good; the one at the 79th street boat basin has repulsive food, but the beer's not bad and the view is terrific).

Harry Winston, Van Cleef & Arpel, Tiffany are all within a couple blocks of each other (5th ave/57th st); all allow you to try stuff on and ooh and aah at the pretty pretty. They also have free catalogues.

The new no-traffic zone around Times Square -- picnic tables in the middle of the street to just hang out and watch the pedestrians.

The Parker Meridian Hotel (57th st) has a rooftop pool with food service; they have a day rate for non-hotel guests (the public pools won't be open for another month or two).

Have you been to the South Street Seaport?

The Central Park Zoo isn't too awful for being so small; the seals are circus refugees, and they do tricks unprompted. The penguin enclosure is somewhat squalid, but the penguins are cute anyway. So's the polar bear. And the snow leopards are wonderful.

Having worked your legs on your Hudson River bike ride, now it's time to work your arms on Central Park rowboats. (bring a picnic; the boathouse food is mediocre, and the chairs are uncomfortable).

323 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:39:04am

Illegal Alien Supporters in Arizona Say They Will Murder Americans With Axes

"We will not stop! We will take up our shovels and pickaxes and we...we will use them against you! Believe that!" screams an opponent of Arizona's tough new bill addressing illegal immigration.

Several organizers supporting the opponents of the bill can be seen trying to stop illegal alien supporters from accosting American citizens that support SB 1070.

Despite intense efforts by illegal alien organizers and police to keep the angry crowd back, a large Hispanic male in a red sport jersey that reads "Warner 13" tries to push past handlers and another voice screams " (garbled) you can't argue with a puto!"

The Urban Dictionary defines a puto as a "Spanish word for a male prostitute. sometimes it´s offensive for homosexuals. in Mexico it is used for cowards and traitors"

324 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:39:10am

re: #310 Aceofwhat?

Gaston LaGaffe is a much funnier and more enjoyable cartoon book...

Don't know him.

325 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:39:43am

re: #312 Aceofwhat?


gaston

Thank you!

326 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:40:12am

re: #318 reine.de.tout

It takes a village, and all ...

The Village can bite my shiny metal ass.

327 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:40:23am

re: #287 MandyManners

Persons engaged in illegal propaganda of 'Jehovah's Witnesses' sect detained in the west of Azerbaijan.

They ran into the same problem in Bulgaria, as long as you jumped through the gov't hoops and registered your every step there wasn't a problem (most times), but they wouldn't and would just take the 'bull in a china shop' approach.

328 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:40:35am

re: #323 NJDhockeyfan

Illegal Alien Supporters in Arizona Say They Will Murder Americans With Axes


[Video]


That's gonna give them lots of sympathy and support!

329 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:41:05am

re: #323 NJDhockeyfan

Illegal Alien Supporters in Arizona Say They Will Murder Americans With Axes


[Video]

But, I thought only Republicans can utter hate speech and incite violence.

330 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:41:25am

re: #328 Mad Al-Jaffee

That's gonna give them lots of sympathy and support!

But zero press coverage.

331 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:41:26am

re: #321 Spider Mensch

the wife and I used to hike out there occassionally...Jockey Hollow and all that area..we went for a hike once near the audubon society hq, somewhere around Basking Ridge, bernardsville area, memory not exact, anyhow, while following a trail we found the beginning of The Passaic River..a sparkiling clean little stream you can walk barefoot through. it was quite the lovely area. and for anyone who knows the Passaic River, it's hard to believe it's origin is a beautiful clean little stream in the woods.

I'm familiar with the Passaic from up around Parsippany where it has a nice wide flood plain area that was often full of water when I was up there this winter and spring. I presume from your posting that downstream of there it gets industrialized and used as a sewer.

332 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:42:03am

re: #327 Oh no...Sand People!

They ran into the same problem in Bulgaria, as long as you jumped through the gov't hoops and registered your every step there wasn't a problem (most times), but they wouldn't and would just take the 'bull in a china shop' approach.

Registering a religion is beyond my comprehension. But, I am an American.

333 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:42:15am

re: #329 MandyManners

But, I thought only Republicans can utter hate speech and incite violence.

They do and you don't even have to prove it. Just say they are, that's good enough.

334 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:42:54am

re: #315 MandyManners

Fucking Nanny State is at it again.

The latest target in the battle over fast food is something you shouldn't even put in your mouth.

Convinced that Happy Meals and other food promotions aimed at children could make kids fat as well as happy, county officials in Silicon Valley are poised to outlaw the little toys that often come with high-calorie offerings.

The proposed ban is the latest in a growing string of efforts to change the types of foods aimed at youngsters and the way they are cooked and sold. Across the nation, cities, states and school boards have taken aim at excessive sugar, salt and certain types of fats.

Because we parents are too freakin' stupid to raise our kids by ourselves.

Burger King: kids meal = cheesburger + apple fries (sans caramel sauce) + chocolate milk.

we get that little treat for our kids about 2-3x per month and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it at that frequency.

i don't live in California, but i'd bet the residents would be better off if the pols started figuring out how to provide the same services for a lot less fucking taxes than whatever the hell else they're doing out there...

335 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:43:04am

re: #329 MandyManners

But, I thought only Republicans can utter hate speech and incite violence.

It's true. These are Republican Illigals.
/

336 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:43:13am

re: #315 MandyManners

Because we parents are too freakin' stupid to raise our kids by ourselves.


You said it.

But hey, some people like having fat kids who get diabetes by the time they're sixteen.

337 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:43:18am

re: #335 Oh no...Sand People!

PIMF

338 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:43:47am

For the first time in New York City, federal prosecutors have used the Your text to link...Freedom of Access to Clinics Entrances Act to secure a conviction in a case where access was blocked to a clinic that provides abortions.

The prosecutors used the statute, signed into law in 1994, to charge two men who stood in front of an entrance at the Margaret Sanger Center, a clinic operated by Planned Parenthood at the corner of Bleecker and Mott Streets.

The men, Richard R. Dugan and Theodore A. Puckett, were each convicted on Monday of a single count of violating the act after a one-day bench trial conducted in Manhattan by Judge Robert W. Sweet of United States District Court. Each man faces a maximum six-month sentence and a fine of $10,000. Sentencing was scheduled for June 10.

Although the statute had never been used in a criminal prosecution in New York City, a spokeswoman for the United States attorney’s office in Manhattan said prosecutors there had used the measure in 1996 in a civil case.

According to a criminal complaint, Mr. Dugan, 48, of Breaux Bridge, La., and Mr. Puckett, 58, of Normandy, Tenn., blocked staff and patients from using two entrances to the clinic on Dec. 12, 2009, and refused to leave.

SNIP

339 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:44:19am

re: #333 NJDhockeyfan

They do and you don't even have to prove it. Just say they are, that's good enough.

Works for me. Not.

340 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:45:32am

Threats Of Civil War

Just reported: Greece will not cut public salaries or there will be civil war.

There's the gauntlet folks. It means that no "assistance" can actually succeed, because it is not possible to get the fiscal situation under control without significant cuts in public spending.

341 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:46:18am

re: #332 MandyManners

Registering a religion is beyond my comprehension. But, I am an American.

Our little club wasn't allowed into Bulgaria until Communism fell in 1991. By 1994 there were approximately 10,000 incidents of violence against our boys during that time. I was there during Kosovo 97-99 and it got pretty dicey. Good times.

342 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:46:32am

re: #331 oaktree

Well, there's also the Great Falls of Paterson NJ (soon to be a national park).

343 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:46:35am

re: #334 Aceofwhat?

Burger King: kids meal = cheesburger + apple fries (sans caramel sauce) + chocolate milk.

we get that little treat for our kids about 2-3x per month and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it at that frequency.

i don't live in California, but i'd bet the residents would be better off if the pols started figuring out how to provide the same services for a lot less fucking taxes than whatever the hell else they're doing out there...

I useta' let The Kid eat them BECAUSE of the high fat content.

Banning Happy Meals is much easier than making the hard decisions about entitlement programs.

344 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:46:57am

re: #335 Oh no...Sand People!

It's true. These are Republican Illigals.
/

HA1 Thanks for the guffaw!

345 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:47:39am

re: #336 darthstar

You said it.

But hey, some people like having fat kids who get diabetes by the time they're sixteen.

if we didn't let anyone ski, no one would get hurt making a stupid decision on the slopes...

346 HAL2010  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:47:42am

Overnight open thread?

But it's almost four in the afternoon!

What is this sorcery?

347 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:47:54am

re: #336 darthstar

You said it.

But hey, some people like having fat kids who get diabetes by the time they're sixteen.

Riiight. So ban them for EVERYONE because a few parents don't know what they're doing.

348 Spider Mensch  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:48:09am

re: #331 oaktree

I'm familiar with the Passaic from up around Parsippany where it has a nice wide flood plain area that was often full of water when I was up there this winter and spring. I presume from your posting that downstream of there it gets industrialized and used as a sewer.


anywhere south of the falls...but believe it or not..even that has been starting to revive itself, so to speak, I was down on the banks in one of the county parks here in Bergen Co and I will say that river actually looked not bad! and I grew up around here... we were afraid to go near it as kids..now..geese and ducks, crew teams out on their rowing skiffs..even the dirty old Passaic river is making a comeback. it's a good thing.

349 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:48:17am

re: #341 Oh no...Sand People!

Our little club wasn't allowed into Bulgaria until Communism fell in 1991. By 1994 there were approximately 10,000 incidents of violence against our boys during that time. I was there during Kosovo 97-99 and it got pretty dicey. Good times.

Your club?

350 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:48:33am

re: #315 MandyManners

Fucking Nanny State is at it again.

The latest target in the battle over fast food is something you shouldn't even put in your mouth.

Convinced that Happy Meals and other food promotions aimed at children could make kids fat as well as happy, county officials in Silicon Valley are poised to outlaw the little toys that often come with high-calorie offerings.

The proposed ban is the latest in a growing string of efforts to change the types of foods aimed at youngsters and the way they are cooked and sold. Across the nation, cities, states and school boards have taken aim at excessive sugar, salt and certain types of fats.

Because we parents are too freakin' stupid to raise our kids by ourselves.

This is a start, but I also think they should ban all premiums. Toys and tchotchke's, for kids and adults alike. Nothing in cereal boxes, no free cigarette lighters with packs of cigarettes, no free this, not free that, no premiums of any sort, since most of that sort of marketing is designed to appeal to people with low self control and can't stop themselves from buying something bad for themselves.

I agree with the concept.

351 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:48:57am

re: #345 Aceofwhat?

if we didn't let anyone ski, no one would get hurt making a stupid decision on the slopes...

The government should ban skiing for greater good of mankind. It's too dangerous.
//

352 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:49:07am

re: #345 Aceofwhat?

if we didn't let anyone ski, no one would get hurt making a stupid decision on the slopes...

Ban bikes because not every parent makes her child wear a helmet.

353 HAL2010  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:49:21am

re: #341 Oh no...Sand People!

Our little club wasn't allowed into Bulgaria until Communism fell in 1991. By 1994 there were approximately 10,000 incidents of violence against our boys during that time. I was there during Kosovo 97-99 and it got pretty dicey. Good times.

The UN?

354 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:49:27am

re: #346 HAL2010

Overnight open thread?

But it's almost four in the afternoon!

What is this sorcery?

We've taken control of your clock.

355 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:49:30am

re: #340 NJDhockeyfan

Threats Of Civil War

Wow. I would love to see the diet coke / sweat wearing Gov't employees try something like that here. Just picturing the DMV locals now...pitchforks, diet cokes (It's diet!)...

Alright, I'll stop.

356 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:49:38am

re: #331 oaktree

I'm familiar with the Passaic from up around Parsippany where it has a nice wide flood plain area that was often full of water when I was up there this winter and spring. I presume from your posting that downstream of there it gets industrialized and used as a sewer.

The Passaic River is MUCH cleaner now than it was in the 1970's. It actually looks like water now. Back then, the birds used to walk around on all the floating garbage and car tires floating downstream. But now, it's much better.

357 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:49:51am

re: #350 Walter L. Newton

Let's ban all toys and candy while we're at it. And video games! And unicorns!!!

358 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:50:13am

re: #350 Walter L. Newton

This is a start, but I also think they should ban all premiums. Toys and tchotchke's, for kids and adults alike. Nothing in cereal boxes, no free cigarette lighters with packs of cigarettes, no free this, not free that, no premiums of any sort, since most of that sort of marketing is designed to appeal to people with low self control and can't stop themselves from buying something bad for themselves.

I agree with the concept.

So, legislate everything?

359 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:50:20am

Huevos revueltos con tomates son non mui bueno.

360 HAL2010  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:50:21am

re: #354 MandyManners

We've taken control of your clock.

Teh sekkrit commie takeover works in mysterious ways

361 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:50:55am

re: #351 NJDhockeyfan

Actually, the better argument for banning skiing (and mountain sports in general) is that it destroys natural habitat, wastes water, etc. Of course it would also destroy the economies of states like UT, VT, CO, NM, and local economies in multiple states, including NY, CA, NV, etc.

362 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:50:57am

re: #350 Walter L. Newton

This is a start, but I also think they should ban all premiums. Toys and tchotchke's, for kids and adults alike. Nothing in cereal boxes, no free cigarette lighters with packs of cigarettes, no free this, not free that, no premiums of any sort, since most of that sort of marketing is designed to appeal to people with low self control and can't stop themselves from buying something bad for themselves.

I agree with the concept.

Maybe we should just ban the free market and marketing all together. Ban commercials, ban advertisements in magazines, ban it all. We can just depend on the government to tell us what is good for us.

363 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:51:02am

re: #338 MandyManners

For the first time in New York City, federal prosecutors have used the Your text to link...Freedom of Access to Clinics Entrances Act to secure a conviction in a case where access was blocked to a clinic that provides abortions.

Such an interesting story.

These two guys who blocked PP clinics in new york --drove all the way from Louisiana and Tennessee to do so.

DUGAN, 48, of Breaux Bridge, Louisiana and PUCKETT, 58, of Normandy, Tennessee were each found guilty of one count of violating the FACE Act. They each face a maximum potential sentence of six months in prison, as well as a maximum fine of $10,000. They are scheduled to be sentenced on June 10, 2010, by Judge SWEET.

Hey, here's the FBI release about them. ;)

SNIP

364 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:51:18am

re: #349 MandyManners

Your club?

LDS / Mormons / Cult / The Republican parties version of Blacks.

Take your pick, I don't mind. ;)

365 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:51:18am

re: #352 MandyManners

Ban bikes because not every parent makes her child wear a helmet.

Bikes are horrible for the environment! They're made in factories that belch toxins and carbon into the air, and the tires are made from petroleum products!

366 HAL2010  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:51:44am

re: #357 Mad Al-Jaffee

Let's ban all toys and candy while we're at it. And video games! And unicorns!!!

Well, I am all for banning all unicorns. I am allergic to horses and suspect that they are far too closely related to let me go anywhere near them.

367 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:52:30am

re: #350 Walter L. Newton

This is a start, but I also think they should ban all premiums. Toys and tchotchke's, for kids and adults alike. Nothing in cereal boxes, no free cigarette lighters with packs of cigarettes, no free this, not free that, no premiums of any sort, since most of that sort of marketing is designed to appeal to people with low self control and can't stop themselves from buying something bad for themselves.

I agree with the concept.

No you don't.

368 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:52:51am

re: #358 MandyManners

So, legislate everything?

Everything? That's a really broad word, could you narrow it down to what "everything" means in your concept here? I was talking about a narrow range of things, premiums... what are you talking about?

369 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:53:37am

In a fractured church-state opinion with no majority consensus, the U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday ruled in favor of a federal law that preserved a Christian cross memorial to World War I veterans amid federal land in California's Mojave Desert.

"Although certainly a Christian symbol, the cross was not emplaced on Sunrise Rock to promote a Christian message," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in the lead opinion in Salazar v. Buono (pdf). "Rather, those who erected the cross intended simply to honor our nation's fallen soldiers."

The high court opinion, which included writings by six of the nine justices, sent the long-running litigation back to Judge Robert Timlin of the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California with instructions to give greater weight to the 2004 law that was aimed at ending litigation over the cross, first planted in the ground in 1934. The statute called for selling the land immediately surrounding the cross to the Veterans of Foreign Wars so that it would no longer be on federal property.

Timlin had ruled that the new law did not change the need for the existing injunction against the cross, and he blocked implementation of the law. "This was error," wrote Kennedy. A panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the injunction against the law.

SNIP

370 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:53:42am

re: #368 Walter L. Newton

Everything? That's a really broad word, could you narrow it down to what "everything" means in your concept here? I was talking about a narrow range of things, premiums... what are you talking about?

Could you elaborate on that?

371 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:54:11am

re: #360 HAL2010

Teh sekkrit commie takeover works in mysterious ways

So does the In-Your-Face take over.

372 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:54:15am

Running 'teh kid' to school.

Later all.

373 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:54:25am

re: #362 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe we should just ban the free market and marketing all together. Ban commercials, ban advertisements in magazines, ban it all. We can just depend on the government to tell us what is good for us.

That would probably open up a whole new slew of necessary bureaucratic jobs... so those Americans of yours who you are so worried about will have employment. Since they don't want to sand in line for day labor.

374 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:55:02am

re: #361 lawhawk

Actually, the better argument for banning skiing (and mountain sports in general) is that it destroys natural habitat, wastes water, etc. Of course it would also destroy the economies of states like UT, VT, CO, NM, and local economies in multiple states, including NY, CA, NV, etc.

don't get any ideas!

375 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:55:15am

Gotta go get my new government id badge. BBL.

376 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:55:16am

re: #362 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe we should just ban the free market and marketing all together. Ban commercials, ban advertisements in magazines, ban it all. We can just depend on the government to tell us what is good for us.

Let's eliminate the nutrition information on packages 'cause the government will tell us all we need to know.

377 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:55:21am

And when we are all government employees...no one will be.

Does it work that way!?

NOW I gotta go...

378 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:55:33am

re: #345 Aceofwhat?

if we didn't let anyone ski, no one would get hurt making a stupid decision on the slopes...


That's just silly. People find ways of hurting themselves all the time.

re: #347 MandyManners

Riiight. So ban them for EVERYONE because a few parents don't know what they're doing.


The fast food joints will still be able to sell the toys (or give them away)...they just won't be able to use the toys as a marketing device for their kid's meals. Not that this legislation will do any good. Poor people will still go to fast food joints because it's easier than cooking, and they've learned to budget around fast food better than grocery shopping...after all, fruit is expensive!

379 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:56:02am

re: #364 Oh no...Sand People!

LDS / Mormons / Cult / The Republican parties version of Blacks.

Take your pick, I don't mind. ;)

I didn't know you were Mormon!

Has it been difficult all over Europe over the years? What about South America?

380 HAL2010  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:56:04am

So anyone else watching the leaders debate tonight on BBC?


Should be a good one!

381 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:56:18am

re: #373 Walter L. Newton

That would probably open up a whole new slew of necessary bureaucratic jobs... so those Americans of yours who you are so worried about will have employment. Since they don't want to sand in line for day labor.

If you want the government to be so big that it tells us what we can & can't do in every facet of our lives, try moving to Cuba. Stay for a year and report back to us about the great socialist utopia you are living in.

382 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:56:23am

re: #370 NJDhockeyfan

Could you elaborate on that?

I thought you read this already...

"This is a start, but I also think they should ban all premiums. Toys and tchotchke's, for kids and adults alike. Nothing in cereal boxes, no free cigarette lighters with packs of cigarettes, no free this, not free that, no premiums of any sort, since most of that sort of marketing is designed to appeal to people with low self control and can't stop themselves from buying something bad for themselves."

I'm not going to repeat myself again just because you are having comprehension problems.

383 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:56:34am

re: #365 Mad Al-Jaffee

Bikes are horrible for the environment! They're made in factories that belch toxins and carbon into the air, and the tires are made from petroleum products!

And, that little bell might give someone a headache.

BAN THE BELLS1

384 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:56:44am

re: #367 Oh no...Sand People!

No you don't.

Yes I do...

385 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:57:02am

re: #368 Walter L. Newton

Everything? That's a really broad word, could you narrow it down to what "everything" means in your concept here? I was talking about a narrow range of things, premiums... what are you talking about?

I'm talking about freedom.

386 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:57:16am

re: #381 NJDhockeyfan

If you want the government to be so big that it tells us what we can & can't do in every facet of our lives, try moving to Cuba. Stay for a year and report back to us about the great socialist utopia you are living in.

Fuck off jerk.

387 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:57:22am

re: #372 Oh no...Sand People!

Running 'teh kid' to school.

Later all.

Might be easier to drive him in a car.

388 sagehen  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:57:27am

re: #378 darthstar

The fast food joints will still be able to sell the toys (or give them away)...they just won't be able to use the toys as a marketing device for their kid's meals. Not that this legislation will do any good. Poor people will still go to fast food joints because it's easier than cooking, and they've learned to budget around fast food better than grocery shopping...after all, fruit is expensive!

It's not the price of fruit that keeps poor people from eating right; it's the distance to a market that even has fruit.

389 HAL2010  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:57:27am

re: #384 Walter L. Newton

Yes I do...

Is this the five minutes or the full half hour?

390 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:58:13am

re: #385 MandyManners

I'm talking about freedom.

Well... I was talking about premiums... I will repeat my statement one more time for you...

"This is a start, but I also think they should ban all premiums. Toys and tchotchke's, for kids and adults alike. Nothing in cereal boxes, no free cigarette lighters with packs of cigarettes, no free this, not free that, no premiums of any sort, since most of that sort of marketing is designed to appeal to people with low self control and can't stop themselves from buying something bad for themselves."

That's the last time. If you want to address my actual statement and not throw up a straw man, then we can talk.

391 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:58:15am

re: #378 darthstar

The fast food joints will still be able to sell the toys (or give them away)...they just won't be able to use the toys as a marketing device for their kid's meals. Not that this legislation will do any good. Poor people will still go to fast food joints because it's easier than cooking, and they've learned to budget around fast food better than grocery shopping...after all, fruit is expensive!

But you are taking away the right of everyone to choose.

392 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:58:20am

re: #382 Walter L. Newton

I thought you read this already...

"This is a start, but I also think they should ban all premiums. Toys and tchotchke's, for kids and adults alike. Nothing in cereal boxes, no free cigarette lighters with packs of cigarettes, no free this, not free that, no premiums of any sort, since most of that sort of marketing is designed to appeal to people with low self control and can't stop themselves from buying something bad for themselves."

I'm not going to repeat myself again just because you are having comprehension problems.

On what grounds and what law could the government force this ban on private companies?

393 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:58:34am

re: #389 HAL2010

Is this the five minutes or the full half hour?

?

394 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:58:35am

re: #357 Mad Al-Jaffee

Let's ban all toys and candy while we're at it. And video games! And unicorns!!!

There are no unicorns. I explained that in great detail here.

395 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:58:49am

re: #380 HAL2010

So anyone else watching the leaders debate tonight on BBC?


Should be a good one!

Is Brown gonna' be there? Will he have removed his foot from his mouth in time?

396 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:59:26am

re: #386 Walter L. Newton

Fuck off jerk.

Touching a nerve, am I? You would rather turn this great country into a large Cuba instead?

397 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:59:35am

re: #392 NJDhockeyfan

On what grounds and what law could the government force this ban on private companies?

"The proposed ban is the latest in a growing string of efforts to change the types of foods aimed at youngsters and the way they are cooked and sold. Across the nation, cities, states and school boards have taken aim at excessive sugar, salt and certain types of fats."

Are you reading anything in this thread?

398 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:00:25am

re: #391 MandyManners

But you are taking away the right of everyone to choose.

Fuck that, we are too stupid to know what is good for us. Only the government knows that.

399 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:00:58am

re: #391 MandyManners

But you are taking away the right of everyone to choose.

No, they can still feed shit to their kids. They just have to ask for the toy separately.

400 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:01:38am

re: #388 sagehen

It's not the price of fruit that keeps poor people from eating right; it's the distance to a market that even has fruit.

Good point...

401 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:02:02am

re: #378 darthstar

The fast food joints will still be able to sell the toys (or give them away)...they just won't be able to use the toys as a marketing device for their kid's meals. Not that this legislation will do any good. Poor people will still go to fast food joints because it's easier than cooking, and they've learned to budget around fast food better than grocery shopping...after all, fruit is expensive!

see #334...please let me vote with my wallet rather than removing the option altogether...sometimes people go to fast food joints because the kids think it's a huge treat.

save your projections for the meeting room, my patrolling friend...

402 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:02:10am

re: #398 NJDhockeyfan

Fuck that, we are too stupid to know what is good for us. Only the government knows that.

Sometimes I almost believe you.

403 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:02:10am

re: #390 Walter L. Newton

Well... I was talking about premiums... I will repeat my statement one more time for you...

"This is a start, but I also think they should ban all premiums. Toys and tchotchke's, for kids and adults alike. Nothing in cereal boxes, no free cigarette lighters with packs of cigarettes, no free this, not free that, no premiums of any sort, since most of that sort of marketing is designed to appeal to people with low self control and can't stop themselves from buying something bad for themselves."

That's the last time. If you want to address my actual statement and not throw up a straw man, then we can talk.

I'm talking about the ability and right of people to make choices as to what they put into their bodies, and the bodies of their children. Why should government be allowed to dictate to private industry how they market their legal products?

What's next? A ban on using skinny models because some women have eating disorders? A ban on beer advertisements during football games because some 16-year-old kid might think beer makes him as macho as the players?

404 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:02:54am

re: #398 NJDhockeyfan

Fuck that, we are too stupid to know what is good for us. Only the government knows that.

I'm wondering what world I woke up in today.

405 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:03:15am

re: #397 Walter L. Newton

"The proposed ban is the latest in a growing string of efforts to change the types of foods aimed at youngsters and the way they are cooked and sold. Across the nation, cities, states and school boards have taken aim at excessive sugar, salt and certain types of fats."

Are you reading anything in this thread?

For the record, i absolutely support taking sodas out of schools and revamping the school menus. I don't expect kids to be able to choose wisely like adults...that's why they're kids.

Just wanted to put that out there.

406 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:03:28am

re: #396 NJDhockeyfan

Touching a nerve, am I? You would rather turn this great country into a large Cuba instead?

Er... no... I just noticed that you are acting like a jerk, throwing up straw men, posing scenario's that have nothing to do with the subject, all because you are not capable or dealing with the actual point of my contention. You did this last night too. You've become terribly transparent and go ahead and dribble your little asinine comments into my conversation, but unless you stay on point, I'm not wasting my time.

407 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:03:34am

re: #402 darthstar

Sometimes I almost believe you.

Some people actually believe that. Incredibly stupid people.

408 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:03:42am

re: #399 darthstar

No, they can still feed shit to their kids. They just have to ask for the toy separately.

You will still be forcing a private company to dance to the tune of the government based on SOME parents' allegedly bad choices.

409 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:03:51am

re: #390 Walter L. Newton

"This is a start, but I also think they should ban all premiums. Toys and tchotchke's, for kids and adults alike. Nothing in cereal boxes, no free cigarette lighters with packs of cigarettes, no free this, not free that, no premiums of any sort, since most of that sort of marketing is designed to appeal to people with low self control and can't stop themselves from buying something bad for themselves."

Wow, what a HUGE intrusion of Big Government into our lives. Telling private companies how to do business? How they can sell their products? That is a precedent that goes a long way down the road to fascism.

410 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:04:11am

re: #402 darthstar

Sometimes I almost believe you.

sometimes i upding posts because, dammit, they're just too damn funny.

+1

411 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:04:29am

re: #404 MandyManners

I'm wondering what world I woke up in today.

Some mornings I think I logged in to DU by mistake.

412 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:04:43am

re: #403 MandyManners

I'm talking about the ability and right of people to make choices as to what they put into their bodies, and the bodies of their children. Why should government be allowed to dictate to private industry how they market their legal products?

What's next? A ban on using skinny models because some women have eating disorders? A ban on beer advertisements during football games because some 16-year-old kid might think beer makes him as macho as the players?

Now you're getting the right idea.

413 Joo-LiZ  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:04:45am

Troubling signs in the geo-political alignment in the Middle East.

Thanks to Obama's policy (or lack thereof), we are already seeing major shifts.

Barry Rubin looks at some obvious examples:

Remember Turkey? It used to hold joint military exercises with the United States and Israel. Now it holds them with Syria while refusing to hold even an air-sea rescue drill with Israel. Yet there's no real concern in the U.S. government that Turkey--or rather the neo-Islamist current government--may be changing sides or of U.S. technology becoming available to Iran and Syria in the future.

Consider this list, which is pretty undeniable in factual terms:
U.S. engagement with Iran: failure

U.S. engagement with Syria: failure

Iran/Syria engagement with Lebanon: success

Iran/Syria engagement with Turkey: success

Bottom line: The United States has failed to pull Syria away from Iran; Iran and Syria have pulled Lebanon and Turkey away from the United States.

Iran/Syria: 2; United States: 0

He explains Turkey somewhat, but for those who are unfamiliar with Lebanon -- two of the most prominent leaders of the pro-Western bloc have made pilgrimages of sorts to talk to pay homage to Syrian dictator Bashar Assad.

Evelyn Gordon over at Commentary points to some other troubling shifts in the Arab world:

A key concern of those who believe a nuclear Iran would be disastrous is that it would prompt “moderate” Arab states to switch into the Iranian camp ... But it now seems Iran won’t even need to obtain the bomb to make this happen: the growing realization that Washington has no real stomach for stopping it is enough.

This conclusion emerges from two incidents reported by Haaretz Arab affairs analyst Zvi Bar’el. First, Iran’s military exercises in the Persian Gulf this week were observed by “a high-level military delegation from Qatar. It was headed by Admiral Abed al-Rahim al-Janahi, who said his country wants to benefit from the Iranian experience, and that he was planning joint exercises for the two armies.”

This is particularly noteworthy given a fact that Bar’el didn’t mention: U.S. forces used Qatar’s Al Udeid Air Base for their campaigns in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Indeed, Qatar originally upgraded the base to lure the U.S. military. Now it’s planning joint military exercises with Iran.

Bar’el also quoted an Al-Arabiya interview with Turki al-Faisal, head of the King Faisal Institute of Global Strategic Studies — and also a former head of Saudi Arabian intelligence, a former ambassador to London and Washington, the Saudi foreign minister’s brother, and King Abdullah’s cousin. As such, Bar’el wrote, al-Faisal most likely represents the ruling family’s views.

And what are those views? Hitherto, Riyadh has considered Tehran its chief regional rival. But al-Faisal termed the Gulf states’ ties with Iran “historic ties that are built on interests, blood relationships and proximity.” He also opposed sanctions on Tehran, saying he prefers “dialogue,” and said Israel posed a far greater threat to the region than Iran does.

With so much going south with US Foreign Policy, why can't more people make legitimate criticisms instead of unleashing the craziness?

414 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:04:58am

re: #403 MandyManners

We do have a ban on tobacco advertising on TV, for basically those reasons.

Do you disagree with that ban?

415 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:05:01am

re: #401 Aceofwhat?

see #334...please let me vote with my wallet rather than removing the option altogether...sometimes people go to fast food joints because the kids think it's a huge treat.

save your projections for the meeting room, my patrolling friend...

And that's fine. I love a good crappy burger myself sometimes, and my dogs go absolutely apeshit with joy when I turn into a drive-thru.

416 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:05:03am

re: #342 lawhawk

Well, there's also the Great Falls of Paterson NJ (soon to be a national park).

Amazing how valuable falls like that were to the early US. Reason for a lot of early mills in New England and Rochester, NY was the flour capital of the US for quite a while due to the water power of the lower falls of the Genessee River.

417 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:05:12am

Outrage of outrages. Can't believe it. No fast food toys.

The world is indeed coming to an end as we know it.

418 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:05:34am

re: #395 MandyManners

Is Brown gonna' be there? Will he have removed his foot from his mouth in time?

What the good Lord gave to Blair, he apparently withheld from Brown...that guy has all the suave of whatshername from Massachusettes...

419 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:06:39am

re: #16 Kruk

*bangs head repeatedly against I desk*

I give up. I absolutely, completely and totally give up on the human race.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

The worst part is that this person will no doubt be feted for "defying political correctness", "daring to speak the truth" or "addressing the controversy", and be made into a victim of the thought police.

Everyone wants someone to take 100 white infants and 100 African American ones and raise them in Disney utopia and prove once and for all that we are all equal on every dimension, or at least the really important ones like intelligence. I am merely not 100% convinced that this is the case.

I hadn't been aware of this desire, up to this point. It would be cute, though. We could watch the babies on BabyCam.

What an eejit.

420 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:06:45am

re: #393 Walter L. Newton

?

COME ON, Walter - Monty Python reference! I thought better of you;)

421 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:06:54am

re: #409 charles_martel

Wow, what a HUGE intrusion of Big Government into our lives. Telling private companies how to do business? How they can sell their products? That is a precedent that goes a long way down the road to fascism.

What in the hell are you talking about. We already have reams of laws that tell private companies what they can do and can't do, what is considered dangerous for the public, what is allowed and not allowed.

This is new?

422 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:07:06am

Someone takes a stand for freedom!

While William Downes was a captain in the U.S. Marine Corps during the Vietnam War, William Ayers was bombing U.S. government buildings as co-founder of a militant anti-war group called the Weather Underground.

Downes, now a U.S. district judge, made special note of those contrasting backgrounds when he ruled Tuesday against the University of Wyoming's decision to ban Ayers from speaking on campus.

"This court is of age to remember the Weather Underground. When his group was bombing the U.S. Capitol in 1971, I was serving in the uniform of my country," Downes said. "Even to this day, when I hear that name, I can scarcely swallow the bile of my contempt for it. But Mr. Ayers is a citizen of the United States who wishes to speak, and he need not offer any more justification than that."

Downes delivered his ruling Tuesday afternoon in his federal courtroom in Casper, after hearing more than five hours of testimony Monday. The judge, finding that UW had violated Ayers' First Amendment rights, issued an injunction sought by Ayers and UW student Meg Lanker forcing UW to allow Ayers to speak Wednesday at the UniWyo Sports Complex on campus in Laramie.

SNIP

He didn't ban Ayers' speech because some might be harmed by it.

423 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:07:42am

re: #411 NJDhockeyfan

Some mornings I think I logged in to DU by mistake.

Sometimes I think I've too much tea.

424 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:07:45am

re: #408 MandyManners

You will still be forcing a private company to dance to the tune of the government based on SOME parents' allegedly bad choices.

I think McDonald's will survive.

425 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:07:58am

re: #356 charles_martel

The Passaic River is MUCH cleaner now than it was in the 1970's. It actually looks like water now. Back then, the birds used to walk around on all the floating garbage and car tires floating downstream. But now, it's much better.

There was a book of Pittsburgh-related cartoons in the 1980's. One that applies to this was too pictures:

First:
Two fish in water with tires, applicances, and other debris on the bottom.
Caption: 1950s

Second
Same two fish in water, the debris is gone.
Caption: 1970s
Voice balloon on one fish: "I wish they would have left the TV."

:)

426 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:08:00am

re: #417 Jadespring

Outrage of outrages. Can't believe it. No fast food toys.

The world is indeed coming to an end as we know it.

No but condoms are perfectly fine.
//

427 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:08:07am

re: #417 Jadespring

Outrage of outrages. Can't believe it. No fast food toys.

The world is indeed coming to an end as we know it.

Well.
I'm a parent, and I am perfectly capable of making these decisions without government intervention.

428 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:08:12am

re: #412 Walter L. Newton

Now you're getting the right idea.

You approve of my reasoning or you approve of the ban of skinny models?

429 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:08:47am

re: #415 darthstar

And that's fine. I love a good crappy burger myself sometimes, and my dogs go absolutely apeshit with joy when I turn into a drive-thru.

and in turn, i am ALL for turning school cafeterias into gardens.

430 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:09:03am

re: #44 MandyManners

Code Pink has curious bed-fellows.

Those aren't bedfellow. That's just THEM.

431 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:09:08am

re: #428 MandyManners

You approve of my reasoning or you approve of the ban of skinny models?

You reasoned that we ban skinny models... I agreed.

432 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:09:22am

re: #421 Walter L. Newton

What in the hell are you talking about. We already have reams of laws that tell private companies what they can do and can't do, what is considered dangerous for the public, what is allowed and not allowed.

This is new?

Yeah true but this is taking it to far. Now the regs are going after the sacred right to promote and get crap cheap ass toys from China. Enuff is enuff.

433 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:09:30am

re: #413 Joo-LiZ

Troubling signs in the geo-political alignment in the Middle East.

Thanks to Obama's policy (or lack thereof), we are already seeing major shifts.

Barry Rubin looks at some obvious examples:


With so much going south with US Foreign Policy, why can't more people make legitimate criticisms instead of unleashing the craziness?

Bookmarked.

434 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:09:46am

re: #414 Obdicut

We do have a ban on tobacco advertising on TV, for basically those reasons.

Do you disagree with that ban?

Yep.

435 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:10:05am

re: #431 Walter L. Newton

You reasoned that we ban skinny models... I agreed.

I think we should ban ugly models, but that's just me.

436 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:10:13am

re: #429 Aceofwhat?

and in turn, i am ALL for turning school cafeterias into gardens.


On that we are in 100% agreement!

437 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:10:23am

re: #418 Aceofwhat?

What the good Lord gave to Blair, he apparently withheld from Brown...that guy has all the suave of whatshername from Massachusettes...

Coakley.

438 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:10:44am

re: #56 iceweasel

Cool. I'll be linking this whenever anyone tries to claim they're a threat. ;)

Well, they're not dangerous, per se.

They are part of a considerable network pumping misinformation about Israel into the veins of the public, and that puts them on my personal dislike and monitor list.

439 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:11:36am

re: #388 sagehen

It's not the price of fruit that keeps poor people from eating right; it's the distance to a market that even has fruit.

seen the fruit/vegetable section of a wal-mart lately? believe it or not, they're doing some good work there.

i don't like shopping there because they can't seem to keep the lines under 7 people, but my wife does and can find almost any organic item she desires.

440 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:12:06am

re: #399 darthstar

No, they can still feed shit to their kids. They just have to ask for the toy separately.

There were plenty of days when I was damned glad to have McDonalds shit to feed to my kid.

Get up at 5, get ready for work, get the kid ready for school, drop the kid off at 7, drive to work, work from 7:30 to 4, pick the kid up at school at 4:30, go home and feed the kid and change clothes and do homework and do a load of laundry and clean up the pet vomit all in time to get ready for a school event starting at 6.

441 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:12:09am

re: #438 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, they're not dangerous, per se.

They are part of a considerable network pumping misinformation about Israel into the veins of the public, and that puts them on my personal dislike and monitor list.

Sure.

They're so very influential./

442 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:12:11am

re: #424 darthstar

I think McDonald's will survive.

THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING POINT!

443 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:12:48am

re: #431 Walter L. Newton

You reasoned that we ban skinny models... I agreed.

You want the government to ban skinny models?

444 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:12:54am

re: #421 Walter L. Newton

What in the hell are you talking about. We already have reams of laws that tell private companies what they can do and can't do, what is considered dangerous for the public, what is allowed and not allowed

We have laws that guarantee honesty and fairness, and to protect consumers against fraud and the like. Outlawing promotions and incentives is a big change. For the worse.

445 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:13:09am

re: #378 darthstar

The fast food joints will still be able to sell the toys (or give them away)...they just won't be able to use the toys as a marketing device for their kid's meals. Not that this legislation will do any good. Poor people will still go to fast food joints because it's easier than cooking, and they've learned to budget around fast food better than grocery shopping...after all, fruit is expensive!

Poor people and not so poor people go to fast food joints because they HAVE NO TIME.
See a typical day in my life for the first 16 years of my kid's life:
re: #440 reine.de.tout

There were plenty of days when I was damned glad to have McDonalds shit to feed to my kid.

Get up at 5, get ready for work, get the kid ready for school, drop the kid off at 7, drive to work, work from 7:30 to 4, pick the kid up at school at 4:30, go home and feed the kid and change clothes and do homework and do a load of laundry and clean up the pet vomit all in time to get ready for a school event starting at 6.

446 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:13:15am

re: #434 MandyManners

Yep.

Okay. So it can be demonstrated that when there is cigarette advertising allowed on TV, all other things being equal, there are more teenagers who will begin smoking.

Does that change your opinion at all?

447 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:13:48am

re: #440 reine.de.tout

There were plenty of days when I was damned glad to have McDonalds shit to feed to my kid.

Get up at 5, get ready for work, get the kid ready for school, drop the kid off at 7, drive to work, work from 7:30 to 4, pick the kid up at school at 4:30, go home and feed the kid and change clothes and do homework and do a load of laundry and clean up the pet vomit all in time to get ready for a school event starting at 6.

Some would call you a bad parent.

448 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:14:02am

re: #432 Jadespring

Yeah true but this is taking it to far. Now the regs are going after the sacred right to promote and get crap cheap ass toys from China. Enuff is enuff.

I'm not sure if you are trying to be humorous or you really understand how sane of an idea it is to remove premiums from marketing strategy, especially in regards to products marketed to children. Happy Meals, cereals, free Itunes with this or that, free DVD's with this or that... all designed to lower the consumers ability to stay aware of the ramifications of purchasing certain items and the effect that the foodstuff will have on the health of the children.

If it saves just one life, it's worth it.

449 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:14:03am

Ban the product,
Ban the ad,
Ban whatever,
Could be bad.

When you're finished,
You may see,
Nothing left,
For you or me.

450 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:14:19am

re: #445 reine.de.tout

Have you read Nickle-and-Dimed, Reine? I think you might like it a lot.

451 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:14:26am

re: #446 Obdicut

Okay. So it can be demonstrated that when there is cigarette advertising allowed on TV, all other things being equal, there are more teenagers who will begin smoking.

Does that change your opinion at all?

Do you have a link to that demonstration?

452 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:14:33am

re: #118 NJDhockeyfan

Muslim students have difficulty with Holocaust lessons

Is that article available in real English somewhere? Because that sentence blew my mind.

453 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:14:35am

re: #447 MandyManners

Some would call you a bad parent.

It would seem so.
That was a TYPICAL day.
Only sometimes I had to clean up the pet poop in the morning before I even left home instead of in the afternoon when I got home.

454 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:14:44am

re: #334 Aceofwhat?

Burger King: kids meal = cheesburger + apple fries (sans caramel sauce) + chocolate milk.

we get that little treat for our kids about 2-3x per month and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it at that frequency.

i don't live in California, but i'd bet the residents would be better off if the pols started figuring out how to provide the same services for a lot less fucking taxes than whatever the hell else they're doing out there...

Is Whitman right about a bloated state government?


Republican gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman wants to chop the state's workforce by 40,000 employees, a pledge she made again this weekend at the state GOP convention. But does the nation-state of California really have such a bloated government?

Not according to the Center for Continuing Study of the California Economy, an independent research group based in Palo Alto.
...
In his report from last December, Levy's organization found that California – which has 38 million residents – had the third lowest number of full-time state government employees relative to the population.

California and Florida both had 103 state employees for every 10,000 residents, while Illinois had the lowest ratio at 97, the group reported. The U.S. average was 143 state employees per 10,000 residents, with California 28 percent below the national average.

455 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:15:27am

re: #447 MandyManners

Some would call you a bad parent.

Who would that be?

Apart from super-wingnuts who think women shouldn't work?

456 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:15:35am

re: #442 MandyManners

THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING POINT!

You're not heavily invested in Big Burger, are you?
:)

457 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:15:38am

World's largest laser fires up for attempt to build new star on Earth


The laser at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is roughly the size of three American football fields, and those in charge of it aren't joking when they say they'll create a tiny sun in the next few months.

It's called the National Ignition Facility and it's all about finding the holy grail of energy production - nuclear fusion - a high-energy reaction that would theoretically provide limitless energy for humanity.

In a nutshell, the laboratory hopes to split its laser beam up into 192 beams, then fire them at a tiny target wrapped in gold that's smaller than a fingernail.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

Nerd alert - inside the target there's a couple of reactive hydrogen isotopes, so you know what comes next.

The heat from the laser will fuse those isotopes together in reaction that at 100 million degrees Celsius, more than five times hotter than the centre of the sun.

There is a slight radioactive danger, but the lab has encased the facility in concrete walls that are two metres thick, just in case.

But the payoff is that if the isotopes fuse, the tiny star will emit enough energy to power the Earth.

That is, for the 200 trillionths of a second that it survives.

"It's the most fundamental energy source in nature," project manager Bruno Van Wonterghem told CNN.

The only fuel it requires is seawater, the source of the aforementioned isotopes.

458 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:15:48am

re: #439 Aceofwhat?

seen the fruit/vegetable section of a wal-mart lately? believe it or not, they're doing some good work there.

i don't like shopping there because they can't seem to keep the lines under 7 people, but my wife does and can find almost any organic item she desires.

Why would you even bring a cooperate vulture like WalMart into this discussion...

First of all, at Wal-Mart, a department manager’s job is structured so that it is virtually impossible for even the most dedicated, most aggressive, most committed, most proficient employee to perform their required tasks in 40 hours a week. Wal-Mart management insists on job performance, rightfully so, but does not allow department managers overtime pay. Therefore, most department managers must work off the clock in order to meet the requirements of Wal-Mart.

Second, Wal-Mart treats their employees like stock on the shelves. There is always someone wanting a job, so employees can be easily replaced. The employee turnover rate, including those in management, is in excess of 70%. The employee turnover rate at Bed Bath and Beyond, for instance, is less than 7%.

Third, almost all new employees, start at minimum wage. If the new employee is married with a family, there is no way he or she can support their family at a minimum wage, therefore public assistance is required, which costs us all.

Fourth, Wal-Mart, without a doubt has forced the closure of more local Mom & Pop small businesses, than any other corporation. As a result, there are many towns that have allowed construction of a Wal-Mart, where Wal-Mart is the only place to shop.

Fifth, in spite of their “Always Buy American” campaign, most of their products are made overseas, oftentimes by manufactures who utilize sweatshops and child labor.

Sixth, Wal-Mart has their own medical insurance company, which they offer to full time employees only, (no benefits are given to part time employees) after 6 months of employment. But, they deduct 35% of the employees base salary, with very high deductibles. If an employee is only making minimum wage, how can they afford a 35% deduction in their already meager pay?


Seventh, quoted from the following site:

[Link: www.ufcw.org...]

Despite making up 72 percent of the Wal-Mart’s hourly workforce, women only account for 33% of managers and 15% of store managers. Instead of being able to move up the ranks, women are concentrated and stuck in the lowest paying jobs—comprising 92% of cashiers and 76% of sales associates

Plain evil in disguise as you "mom and pop" store.

459 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:16:11am

re: #432 Jadespring

Yeah true but this is taking it to far. Now the regs are going after the sacred right to promote and get crap cheap ass toys from China. Enuff is enuff.

that little toy is absolutely one of the joys of taking the kids there on occasion. just sayin'...

460 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:16:20am

re: #448 Walter L. Newton

Your new shtick is pretty boring, and you've been being rather cruel to people recently, Walter. Are you doing okay?

461 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:16:33am

re: #446 Obdicut

Okay. So it can be demonstrated that when there is cigarette advertising allowed on TV, all other things being equal, there are more teenagers who will begin smoking.

Does that change your opinion at all?

But where does it stop? If we get a Congress full of vegans, will they pass laws banning meat because they are convinced it is healthier? It is the destruction of personal freedom and responsibility, inch by inch.

462 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:16:36am

re: #452 SanFranciscoZionist

Is that article available in real English somewhere? Because that sentence blew my mind.

I couldn't find one. Anyone here read Dutch?

463 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:17:16am

re: #450 Obdicut

Have you read Nickle-and-Dimed, Reine? I think you might like it a lot.

Barbara Ehrenreich?!

Right. A Prog is gonna' judge choices in a capitalist system justly.

My stars.

464 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:17:31am

re: #445 reine.de.tout

I saw that reply and updinged...you make a good point, and I agree. I need to head out now, but I'll respond in full later. Take care.

465 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:17:38am

re: #454 Locker

Well, San Francisco certainly seems to have quite a bit of bloat.

Meanwhile, who exactly is opposing the Cape Wind project? Yesterday a report came out complaining about air quality around the US and how so many Americans are breathing contaminated air. Well, it would be cleaner if we had more wind power project, solar projects, and most importantly - nuclear plants to reduce/eliminate reliance on coal, gas, and oil powered plants. Yet, these "environmentalists" are hoping to bend spoons to get us to think that blocking this wind power project is a "good thing".

466 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:17:48am

re: #186 NJDhockeyfan

'Old Man River' lyrics trouble for teacher


But there is zero outrage with the racist language in rap & hip hop music. Selective outrage anyone?

Anyone teaching that in class at this school?

467 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:17:50am

re: #463 MandyManners

Barbara Ehrenreich?!

Right. A Prog is gonna' judge choices in a capitalist system justly.

My stars.

Go piss up a rope.

468 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:17:58am

re: #453 reine.de.tout

It would seem so.
That was a TYPICAL day.
Only sometimes I had to clean up the pet poop in the morning before I even left home instead of in the afternoon when I got home.

Well, that's what you get for oppressing animals.

469 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:18:02am

re: #436 darthstar

On that we are in 100% agreement!

i submit that there is a nugget of sensibility at the heart of every skier...

470 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:18:40am

re: #190 Joo-LiZ

I've been doing a lot of drive-by posts lately. I apologize for that, I just don't have the time lately that I once did.

But I need to vent.

I am sick and tired of people calling Obama's administration "openly anti-semitic" and all of the birther claims.

I think the administration has big problems. I want REAL criticism not childish stupidity!

Knee-jerk is always easier. For everyone.

But I completely agree!

471 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:18:56am

re: #458 Walter L. Newton

alllrighty then...

472 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:19:10am

re: #451 MandyManners

Do you have a link to that demonstration?

Oh, sure. Sorry, that advertising is actually effective I thought was a truism.

[Link: jama.ama-assn.org...]

[Link: www.jstor.org...]

The bibliographies of those two papers refer to most of the other major papers on the subject.

473 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:19:13am

re: #460 Obdicut

Your new shtick is pretty boring, and you've been being rather cruel to people recently, Walter. Are you doing okay?

Fit as a fiddle... I am rethinking my love affair with conservatism... something wrong with that? I've learn a lot here, and with my recent 6 years of on and off employment, I'm starting to have a new appreciation of some of the finer points of the politics of the Democrats.

Something wrong?

474 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:19:23am

re: #467 Locker

Go piss up a rope.

*smooch*

475 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:19:56am

re: #450 Obdicut

Have you read Nickle-and-Dimed, Reine? I think you might like it a lot.

That's a terrific book. Second the recommendation.

476 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:20:10am
477 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:20:13am

re: #461 charles_martel

But where does it stop? If we get a Congress full of vegans, will they pass laws banning meat because they are convinced it is healthier? It is the destruction of personal freedom and responsibility, inch by inch.

Well, children really are exposed to advertising, and they really don't have the same rational faculties as adults. Not to mention the enormous peer pressure at that age.

Even the most libertarian of people generally accept that children are more malleable and influence-able than adults. The only thing I'm talking about is advertising which is viewed by children.

478 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:20:51am

re: #199 iceweasel

What? Change again?

I liked the weasel in the pink bonnet best.

479 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:21:06am

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

World's largest laser fires up for attempt to build new star on Earth


Isn't that what Dr. Octopus tried in Spiderman 2?

480 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:21:15am

re: #455 iceweasel

Who would that be?

Apart from super-wingnuts who think women shouldn't work?

I loved my job.
I loved the work I did, it was interesting every day, and every day I learned something new.
I loved implementing programs and rules that had a positive effect for state employees, and hearing the feedback.

But hubby was gone 2 weeks at a time, it was just ME and the kid, and I can tell you, it was very very very difficult. There was no down time, especially during those 2 weeks the Roi wasn't home.

481 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:21:53am

re: #448 Walter L. Newton

I'm not sure if you are trying to be humorous or you really understand how sane of an idea it is to remove premiums from marketing strategy, especially in regards to products marketed to children. Happy Meals, cereals, free Itunes with this or that, free DVD's with this or that... all designed to lower the consumers ability to stay aware of the ramifications of purchasing certain items and the effect that the foodstuff will have on the health of the children.

If it saves just one life, it's worth it.

support DDT-laced mosquito nets for sale in Africa...you'll save millions

482 badger1970  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:21:53am

re: #479 Mad Al-Jaffee

Also, "Weird Science"

483 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:21:58am

re: #450 Obdicut

Have you read Nickle-and-Dimed, Reine? I think you might like it a lot.

Except that book is complete bullshit. Barbara Ehrenreich slummed it for a couple of months and then went back to her high-priced lifestyle. She has no idea what it is really like for poor people who have to live within a tiny budget all the time.

484 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:22:09am

re: #201 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does that mean there's no Muslims in Europe?

No, it means it's their own damn fault they spent four days camped in De Gaulle airport. Who made them move to heathen Europe, anyway.

485 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:22:30am

Speaking of Progs and Coakley,...

A union-backed liberal group has launched an ad campaign criticizing U.S. Sen. Scott Brown’s recent votes to block a Democratic financial-reform bill - even though Republican leaders late yesterday agreed to finally allow debate on the historic legislation over coming weeks.

Americans United, which is backed by unions such as AFSCME and the SEIU, began running 15-second spots last night on Boston cable channels, criticizing Brown for initially opposing floor debate on the Democratic bill.

“When Scott Brown ran for Senate, he said he was a regular guy from Wrentham who drove a truck,” intones the commercial, which shows Brown in the now-famous pickup truck used during this past winter’s Senate campaign.

“But now he’s voting like a guy from Wall Street who drives around in a limo,” said the ad, which attempted to add insult to injury by playing Frank Sinatra’s famous “New York, New York” song in the background.

The ad, which started playing last night on CNN, MSNBC, Fox and other cable channels in Boston, ends by urging viewers to “tell Scott Brown to stop voting against holding the big Wall Street banks accountable.” The ad campaign, whose costs weren’t disclosed, ends today.

Brown’s office countered yesterday that the unions-backed cable blitz shows that Democrats, by forcing procedural votes earlier this week, were simply trying to embarrass Republicans, not advance a substantive bill.

“Senator Brown is an independent voice, not a rubber stamp for anyone,” said a statement issued yesterday by Brown’s office. “Senator Brown believes that we need financial reform and that it needs to be done in a bipartisan way that protects the safety of our financial system, as well as the interests of taxpayers and consumers. He is standing with Massachusetts businesses that are opposed to the bill as written.”

SNIP

486 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:23:21am

re: #480 reine.de.tout

I loved my job.
I loved the work I did, it was interesting every day, and every day I learned something new.
I loved implementing programs and rules that had a positive effect for state employees, and hearing the feedback.

But hubby was gone 2 weeks at a time, it was just ME and the kid, and I can tell you, it was very very very difficult. There was no down time, especially during those 2 weeks the Roi wasn't home.

That's why I asked Mandy who these people are who (she said) would claim you weren't a good parent.
They aren't liberals.

487 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:23:33am

re: #463 MandyManners

Mandy, the book is excellent, and progressives are capable of being good, honest, decent people that add to the national discourse.

My friend Quintin Mecke, for example, is a tireless worker in San Francisco who makes sure that the homeless are treated as more than a political coin to be tossed around. He spends his time holding government accountable for its promises, something I'd think conservatives would agree is a good thing.

It is foolishness itself to believe that simply because one has certain political values that one can't add honestly to our understanding of a subject. And it's the more deeply foolish because exactly the same attitude can be turned on you, in order to reject what you say.

Instead of attacking people because of their position on a non-existent political spectrum, addressing their actual ideas and works would be good.

488 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:23:41am

re: #480 reine.de.tout

I loved my job.
I loved the work I did, it was interesting every day, and every day I learned something new.
I loved implementing programs and rules that had a positive effect for state employees, and hearing the feedback.

But hubby was gone 2 weeks at a time, it was just ME and the kid, and I can tell you, it was very very very difficult. There was no down time, especially during those 2 weeks the Roi wasn't home.

Which means I was very grateful for places where she actually wanted to go and eat.
She's now grown and wears a size 1; but then, I never insisted she clean her plate, when she'd had enough, we just tossed the leftovers. And a parent's insistence that kids eat huge portions and eat all of it is a bigger part of the problem than the damned marketing ploys these places use.

489 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:23:46am

re: #448 Walter L. Newton

I'm not sure if you are trying to be humorous or you really understand how sane of an idea it is to remove premiums from marketing strategy, especially in regards to products marketed to children. Happy Meals, cereals, free Itunes with this or that, free DVD's with this or that... all designed to lower the consumers ability to stay aware of the ramifications of purchasing certain items and the effect that the foodstuff will have on the health of the children.

If it saves just one life, it's worth it.

It's humor. Black. I understand the points people are making I'm just having a bit of giggle at the level of ire and hyberbole over this. 'Freedoms!' 'we're on our way to Cuba' etc.
I also understand your points and agree, that's exactly what they're designed to do. It's basic marketing 101.

To be truthful I really don't care that much one way or another. With all the other problems facing the collective 'we' right now getting upset about one areas ban on cheap plastic toy promotions just doesn't register that high on the it's the political or it's a big deal outrage meter.

490 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:23:50am

re: #477 Obdicut

Well, children really are exposed to advertising, and they really don't have the same rational faculties as adults. Not to mention the enormous peer pressure at that age.

Even the most libertarian of people generally accept that children are more malleable and influence-able than adults. The only thing I'm talking about is advertising which is viewed by children.

Watch a cartoon channel when you get a chance. It's loaded with commercials for toys, videos, and sugar cereal. Should all that get banned as well?

491 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:24:10am

re: #483 Alouette

Except that book is complete bullshit. Barbara Ehrenreich slummed it for a couple of months and then went back to her high-priced lifestyle. She has no idea what it is really like for poor people who have to live within a tiny budget all the time.

For those who don't know Ehrenreich.

492 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:24:15am

re: #217 Aceofwhat?

odds that we'll see a UN resolution claiming that Egypt is perpetrating a Holocaust of its own?

Very low.

Code Pink might go back to the SF Egyptian Consulate, though.

They did a hunger strike over there when Egypt wouldn't let their tour group into Gaza.

Each of them pledged not to eat in front of the Egyptian Consulate for two hours a day, all week long.

The humanity!

493 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:24:48am

re: #485 MandyManners

Speaking of Progs and Coakley,...

A union-backed liberal group has launched an ad campaign criticizing U.S. Sen. Scott Brown’s recent votes to block a Democratic financial-reform bill - even though Republican leaders late yesterday agreed to finally allow debate on the historic legislation over coming weeks.

Speaking of attention whores who constantly link spam the same content over and over to get their post count up and refuse to use all tools developed by our host to post said links...

494 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:24:57am

re: #486 iceweasel

That's why I asked Mandy who these people are who (she said) would claim you weren't a good parent.
They aren't liberals.

Hm.
Well, Darth called people who do that "parents who feed their kids shit".
But I think he actually had not thought through the whole thing (as he indicated later).

495 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:25:52am

re: #490 NJDhockeyfan

Watch a cartoon channel when you get a chance. It's loaded with commercials for toys, videos, and sugar cereal. Should all that get banned as well?

There isn't really anything harmful about sugary cereal, especially compared to tobacco. Diet isn't something I really want many laws controlling.

This isn't an all or nothing deal. We can rationally say that advertising cigarettes to children is wrong without saying advertising 80% lean ground chuck is wrong.

496 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:26:11am

re: #490 NJDhockeyfan

Watch a cartoon channel when you get a chance. It's loaded with commercials for toys, videos, and sugar cereal. Should all that get banned as well?

It certainly should be looked at. Hell, we got ride of cigarette ads and hard liqueur ads on network TV for adults, do you not think the children at least deserve the same consideration and help?

497 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:26:33am

re: #487 Obdicut

. . .

It is foolishness itself to believe that simply because one has certain political values that one can't add honestly to our understanding of a subject. And it's the more deeply foolish because exactly the same attitude can be turned on you, in order to reject what you say.

Instead of attacking people because of their position on a non-existent political spectrum, addressing their actual ideas and works would be good.

Agreed. I will read anything (and actually, everything), and then I can draw my own conclusions as to what's bullshit and what is valuable information that I need to consider.

498 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:26:43am

re: #477 Obdicut

Well, children really are exposed to advertising, and they really don't have the same rational faculties as adults. Not to mention the enormous peer pressure at that age.

Even the most libertarian of people generally accept that children are more malleable and influence-able than adults. The only thing I'm talking about is advertising which is viewed by children.

I understand that children are more susceptible than adults. In fact, one of my hobby horses for the past few years, is my desire to teach media literacy in schools. Not just one class, but a required course every year, to teach kids all about the media and advertising, so they could appreciate it as a message crafted by people with an agenda, rather than an anonymous authoritative imperative. I want kids to be better able to criticize and analyze all media.

But, that being said, any laws that abridge freedom of speech in one area, no matter how altruistic they are, set dangerous precedents for freedom of speech in other areas.

499 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:26:51am

re: #244 reloadingisnotahobby

How the hell do know if an Iranian "Chick" has a tan??

She turns brown? Most Persian women don't wear the face veil.

500 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:27:43am

re: #498 charles_martel

I'm sorry, but you're not for absolute freedom of speech, right, including fraud?

501 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:28:28am

NFL teams are scrutinizing players more heavily these days, in part because they are emphasizing character more than ever.

But is it ever OK to ask a prospect bluntly, “Is your mom a prostitute?”

To recap, Michael Silver of Yahoo! Sports reported that former Oklahoma State wide receiver Dez Bryant was asked that very question by Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland. Bryant was upset, but had no choice but to swallow his anger. Heaven forbid he allow his humiliation to affect his draft status.

Shortly after the report hit the Web on Tuesday, Ireland issued a statement saying he called Bryant to apologize. “My job is to find out as much information as possible about a player that I’m considering drafting. Sometimes that leads to asking in-depth questions,” Ireland said. “Having said that, I talked to Dez Bryant and told him I used poor judgment in one of the questions I asked him. I certainly meant no disrespect and apologized to him.”

Bryant’s background had been the subject of many stories before the draft. His mom, Angela, had him when she was 15, and she also spent time in jail for selling crack cocaine. But does that give Ireland and the Dolphins the right to ask such an inappropriate question?

SNIP

Even if she were, that has no bearing on Dez. Ireland is lucky he didn't get his clock cleaned on the spot.

502 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:28:36am

re: #493 Locker

Speaking of attention whores who constantly link spam the same content over and over to get their post count up and refuse to use all tools developed by our host to post said links...

Ooooh, HA!

503 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:29:51am

*rolls eyes*

504 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:30:12am

re: #323 NJDhockeyfan

Illegal Alien Supporters in Arizona Say They Will Murder Americans With Axes

[Video]

Look for the whole quote. It's somewhat less alarming.

505 BARACK THE VOTE  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:31:09am

*raises brow*

*twists cherry stem into knot with tongue*

506 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:32:22am

*wiggles ears*

(it's the only thing I can do)

507 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:32:58am

re: #504 SanFranciscoZionist

Look for the whole quote. It's somewhat less alarming.

I can't find the whole quote... only videos of it. Do you have a source?

508 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:32:59am

re: #466 SanFranciscoZionist

Anyone teaching that in class at this school?

Yup. Have been for years.

509 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:33:02am

re: #493 Locker

Speaking of attention whores who constantly link spam the same content over and over to get their post count up and refuse to use all tools developed by our host to post said links...

I sense a negative vibe.

510 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:33:28am

re: #450 Obdicut

Have you read Nickle-and-Dimed, Reine? I think you might like it a lot.

Have you read Scratch Beginnings? A much more realistic tale, IMHO.

Nickle-and-Dimed is unrealistic on a few fronts.

511 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:33:39am

re: #500 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but you're not for absolute freedom of speech, right, including fraud?

No, of course, there must be some limits on freedom of speech. But it is a fine line to walk, and I believe we must be vigilant about any changes to those freedoms.

512 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:34:51am

re: #483 Alouette

Except that book is complete bullshit. Barbara Ehrenreich slummed it for a couple of months and then went back to her high-priced lifestyle. She has no idea what it is really like for poor people who have to live within a tiny budget all the time.

More importantly, she didn't stay long enough to work her way up...which is sorta the point of working.

Low-wage jobs are not synonymous with dead-end jobs. They CAN be...but they don't NEED to be.

513 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:35:00am

re: #379 MandyManners

I didn't know you were Mormon!

Has it been difficult all over Europe over the years? What about South America?

Sorry. Playing catch up now.

Well, we now have, according to the stats, 13,000,000 members of which more are outside of the states than inside.

South America is booming. Since the 'Book of Mormon' purportedly gives a history of some of their ancestors so it's an easier sell.

I can only speak for Eastern Europe and just the little segment I was in, but in the beginning there was some solid success with thousands of converts.

Then Gov't propaganda kicked in, (not counting the true stuff of early mormon history like polygamy), but the likes that we sacrificed children and ate them, blood libel, etc. Then we started getting the smack down on us.

I worked on a load of humanitarian projects, fixing up orphanages, schools for the deaf and blind, cleaning parks, taught english classes, looked at all the hot Eastern Euro chicks...I mean. uh..uh. (unpaid, we all save our meagre wages to do this 2 year debacle...) Basically anything to say, hey, yes some of us are American (not all of us there were), yes we are, according to your commie history books, the bad guys, but we not only have taken the time to learn and associate with you in your own language, but we are also here to help in any way we can.

So now the mental walls are coming down. I would like to go and visit some of my friends there.

514 Stanghazi  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:35:23am

re: #506 reine.de.tout

*wiggles ears*

(it's the only thing I can do)

*drinks coffee, carefully as not to spew*

515 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:35:46am

re: #510 Aceofwhat?

In what way is it unrealistic?

I liked Scratch Beginnings a lot. However, it was kind of baffling how often his conclusions didn't seem related to his experiences. He seemed to discount the importance of his most important asset far too much: his intelligence.

As I was saying to my dad last night, I'm really not so worried about the fates of smart and motivated people. I'm worried about the honest dude who's not that bright and a little bit shy and unassertive. The meek, so to speak.

516 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:36:19am

re: #426 NJDhockeyfan

No but condoms are perfectly fine.
//

When McDonalds starts bundling those in Happy Meals, let me know.

517 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:37:27am

re: #516 SanFranciscoZionist

When McDonalds starts bundling those in Happy Meals, let me know.

It would give new meaning the the name 'Happy Meal'.

518 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:37:39am

re: #512 Aceofwhat?

More importantly, she didn't stay long enough to work her way up...which is sorta the point of working.

Low-wage jobs are not synonymous with dead-end jobs. They CAN be...but they don't NEED to be.

The point is that somebody who visits a certain lifestyle as a tourist is not going to present the same point of view as a native.

519 Joo-LiZ  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:37:42am

re: #470 SanFranciscoZionist

Knee-jerk is always easier. For everyone.

But I completely agree!

But then the reaction you get in the wider-swath of the public is:
"So much of this criticism is nonsense. If someone criticizes the administration, it must be total hogwash. Therefore, the administration must not be so bad... it's all just spin and lies"

It's so counter-productive, and really frustrates me.

*sigh

For me, there is so much speculation on politicians intentions, and at this point in the administration, we have enough out there to talk about what has been done (or not done), and what the outcomes are shaping up to be.

520 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:37:44am

re: #441 iceweasel

Sure.

They're so very influential./

Not compared to many groups, but they're local and unpleasant.

521 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:37:50am

re: #490 NJDhockeyfan

Watch a cartoon channel when you get a chance. It's loaded with commercials for toys, videos, and sugar cereal. Should all that get banned as well?

Ban TV. Read more books! (Inverse Fahrenheit 451!)

/ (as if it's necessary)

522 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:38:17am

re: #511 charles_martel

No, of course, there must be some limits on freedom of speech. But it is a fine line to walk, and I believe we must be vigilant about any changes to those freedoms.

If you say:

But, that being said, any laws that abridge freedom of speech in one area, no matter how altruistic they are, set dangerous precedents for freedom of speech in other areas.

You can't then say that there should be some limits on freedom of speech, without accusing yourself of setting dangerous precedents.

It seems to me that all you're really saying is that one can go to far in regulating free speech, which no one would ever argue about. yes, it's a thin line, and where that line is drawn is what is argued about. Nobody involved in the free speech debate is an absolutist, except for a few anarchists and religious zealots.

523 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:38:21am

re: #516 SanFranciscoZionist

Did you find a link to the whole "Axe" quote yet? Everything quote I find has an ellipse in the middle of the quote... I suspect what's missing changes the context. I can't find the whole quote.

524 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:38:41am

re: #493 Locker

Speaking of attention whores who constantly link spam the same content over and over to get their post count up and refuse to use all tools developed by our host to post said links...

Honestly - you actually give a fuck about post counts and the "proper" way to do things? I coulda sworn the rules were posted up near the top somewhere...

Give me a break. Some of us don't check our "stats" every five minutes.

525 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:38:57am

re: #455 iceweasel

Who would that be?

Apart from super-wingnuts who think women shouldn't work?

Food nuts.

526 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:38:58am

re: #513 Oh no...Sand People!

Then Gov't propaganda kicked in, (not counting the true stuff of early mormon history like polygamy), but the likes that we sacrificed children and ate them, blood libel, etc. Then we started getting the smack down on us.

Just like they did--and, in some cases, still do--to Jews!

527 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:39:16am

re: #515 Obdicut

In what way is it unrealistic?

I liked Scratch Beginnings a lot. However, it was kind of baffling how often his conclusions didn't seem related to his experiences. He seemed to discount the importance of his most important asset far too much: his intelligence.

As I was saying to my dad last night, I'm really not so worried about the fates of smart and motivated people. I'm worried about the honest dude who's not that bright and a little bit shy and unassertive. The meek, so to speak.

It's a dilemma.

I can go into a place and immediately spot the hard-working employee who is underemployed given their abilities and their general positive attitude, who are there for the reasons you cite - a bit shy, unassertive, lacking in a certain confidence in themselves.

But, how to 'save' them all?

528 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:40:43am

re: #463 MandyManners

Barbara Ehrenreich?!

Right. A Prog is gonna' judge choices in a capitalist system justly.

My stars.

CAPITLIZM IS GOOD. PROGS ARE EEEEEVIL.

529 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:41:08am

re: #525 SanFranciscoZionist

Food nuts.


Food nuts?

530 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:41:36am

re: #528 SanFranciscoZionist

CAPITLIZM IS GOOD. PROGS ARE EEEVIL.

Should be "EEEBILLL".

531 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:42:10am

re: #512 Aceofwhat?

More importantly, she didn't stay long enough to work her way up...which is sorta the point of working.

Low-wage jobs are not synonymous with dead-end jobs. They CAN be...but they don't NEED to be.

There are many, many low-end jobs where there is zero ability for advancement. I've worked some of them, and the only way to improve yourself in them is to quit them.

Nickled-and-Dimed was not supposed to show that she really understood how to live that life, and she made it very, very clear in the book that she wasn't claiming that, either.

The book talks about poverty in America, which is an uncomfortable subject for everyone. But it's simply true that many people do get stuck in dead-end jobs and never get out. That's one reason why we honor people who make the sacrifice of working such jobs in order to pay for their children's education and well-being. It's a sacrifice not just of physical things, but also of the pleasure that comes from a good job.

532 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:42:27am

A sign that a apocalypse is upon us...

Boy Scouts to get video game awards

The Boy Scouts of America has added two awards for kids to earn, the group announced Wednesday. But the focus of these awards might surprise you.

Rather than teach survival techniques, the awards will allow scouts to earn a belt loop or academics pin by playing video games.

Earning the belt loop is actually quite simple. Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, and Webelos Scouts can get the loop by explaining "why it is important to have a rating system for video games." They also need to "create a schedule" that includes "chores, homework, and video gaming." Finally, the kids need to play a new game that's been approved by a parent or guardian.

Getting the gaming academic pin is a bit more involved. The kid will need to research games to find a title right for his age group, examine the differences between two game consoles, play a game with family members, and teach someone else how to play video games.

Once that work is completed, the scout is expected to create a list of tips to help others play his favorite game, as well as play a multiplayer title with a buddy for at least an hour. To add an educational element, a scout must also play a game that helps with mathematical or spelling skills, compare prices of games at three stores, and, finally, "install a gaming system" under the supervision of an adult.

As surprising as it might be that the Boy Scouts of America would be offering gaming awards, earning the belt loop or the academic pin does deliver information to kids. They should know how ESRB ratings work, and they may as know to how install a game system since that will be a part of their lives going forward.

533 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:42:37am

re: #483 Alouette

Except that book is complete bullshit. Barbara Ehrenreich slummed it for a couple of months and then went back to her high-priced lifestyle. She has no idea what it is really like for poor people who have to live within a tiny budget all the time.

She's aware of that, and says it explicitly in her book. But it's still an interesting read.

534 webevintage  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:42:48am

re: #450 Obdicut

Have you read Nickle-and-Dimed, Reine? I think you might like it a lot.

Great book.

535 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:43:06am

If "progs" can't comment on capitalism, then the GOP needs to STFU about science.
Fair and Balanced!
:P

536 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:43:10am

re: #484 SanFranciscoZionist

No, it means it's their own damn fault they spent four days camped in De Gaulle airport. Who made them move to heathen Europe, anyway.

it's certainly a downside to a fantastic safety net. i don't want to start a debate, because i like western Europe a lot and their style of economics makes a good deal of sense for their priorities, but the side effect of attracting immigrants for the social services rather than the long-term opportunity is an interesting subject.

537 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:43:26am

Gotta put my lawn mower back together. BBL

538 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:44:01am

re: #486 iceweasel

That's why I asked Mandy who these people are who (she said) would claim you weren't a good parent.
They aren't liberals.

Some are, or think they are. The kind of baby-raisin' hysteria some affluent liberals in the Bay Area get into has to be seen to be believed. Are they GOOD liberals? No. But they talk the talk.

539 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:44:02am

re: #526 MandyManners

Then Gov't propaganda kicked in, (not counting the true stuff of early mormon history like polygamy), but the likes that we sacrificed children and ate them, blood libel, etc. Then we started getting the smack down on us.

Just like they did--and, in some cases, still do--to Jews!

It was interesting. A lot of the locals there loved the idea of freedom. Loved the music, loved the fashion, loved the money, just hated the ones who actually got to have it.

One guy I met and associated with, his grandma turned him into the Gov't for owning blue jeans and listening to the Beatles. Spent 2 years in Siberia.

Yesterday my kid came home and threatened to tell his teacher on me for saying I don't care about the Earth. (He didn't catch the sarcasm) The look and seriousness my kid said it to me gave me pause. He's 6.

Can I link a grandma turning her son in to a son turning a dad in when something is crammed down their throat via government? Yes. Yes I can.

Which is why I am doing what I have to to even put him, teh kid, on a moderate footing when it comes to my own theological ideas.

540 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:44:08am

re: #522 Obdicut

You can't then say that there should be some limits on freedom of speech, without accusing yourself of setting dangerous precedents.

It seems to me that all you're really saying is that one can go to far in regulating free speech, which no one would ever argue about. yes, it's a thin line, and where that line is drawn is what is argued about. Nobody involved in the free speech debate is an absolutist, except for a few anarchists and religious zealots.

You are right, I didn't express my self as clearly as I should have. I meant that new laws expanding limits on freedom of speech can set a dangerous precedent, because they can be used as precedents to increase limits in other areas by other lawmakers with a different agenda. The Law of Unintended Consequences....

541 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:44:31am

re: #518 Alouette

The point is that somebody who visits a certain lifestyle as a tourist is not going to present the same point of view as a native.

well said (as usual)

542 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:44:58am

re: #527 reine.de.tout

I don't know. I have no plan. But I'd like to recognize their existence.

I just got a bonus at work-- even though they know I'm leaving-- because they want me to continue doing contract work for them. Almost a bribe, really. it makes perfect capitalistic sense; I'm a great performer.

However, one of my co-workers had his wife get into a terrible accident, after which she's become addicted to painkillers and, frankly, her personality has changed and she's now unreliable and occasionally violent. He still comes to work every day and does a good day's work, despite dealing with a tragedy I can't even comprehend. I feel he should be rewarded for that. At the same time, I should be, for capitalistic efficiency's sake, rewarded for my output.

It is a dilemma. And of course one of the best ways to fix it is on the individual level, by recognizing and helping out those who are meeker or awkward or unpleasant. I can't think of any systematic fix.

543 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:45:11am

BTW, Locker. Thanks for reposting that snippet about Brown. You're a peach.

544 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:45:16am

re: #533 SanFranciscoZionist

She's aware of that, and says it explicitly in her book. But it's still an interesting read.

Those kinds of books - I will read for the descriptions of the experiences people have, as well as the conclusions they draw even if I disagree.

Every little bit of information helps us understand the world around us.

545 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:45:22am

Oh, good morning!

546 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:46:39am

re: #540 charles_martel

Sure. But that's also called The Slippery Slope Fallacy. If we accept that there are some necessary restrictions on speech and that there is a danger of going too far, then it doesn't really add anything to point out that any new limit can have unintended consequences. What would be adding something is to directly show how that consequence would play out.

547 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:46:44am

re: #532 NJDhockeyfan

A sign that a apocalypse is upon us...

Boy Scouts to get video game awards

I can see how it helps a child to prioritize.

548 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:47:01am

re: #531 Obdicut

There are many, many low-end jobs where there is zero ability for advancement. I've worked some of them, and the only way to improve yourself in them is to quit them.

Which more people ought to do - part of the process of moving out of a low-wage job is searching for a better equivalent to the current low-wage job. Lateral movement is integral to the process of vertical movement.

549 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:47:38am

re: #524 Aceofwhat?

Honestly - you actually give a fuck about post counts and the "proper" way to do things? I coulda sworn the rules were posted up near the top somewhere...

Give me a break. Some of us don't check our "stats" every five minutes.

Careful, the pack is getting agitated.

550 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:48:16am

re: #549 Spare O'Lake

Careful, the pack is getting agitated.

What pack?
:P

551 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:48:32am

re: #539 Oh no...Sand People!

It was interesting. A lot of the locals there loved the idea of freedom. Loved the music, loved the fashion, loved the money, just hated the ones who actually got to have it.

One guy I met and associated with, his grandma turned him into the Gov't for owning blue jeans and listening to the Beatles. Spent 2 years in Siberia.

Yesterday my kid came home and threatened to tell his teacher on me for saying I don't care about the Earth. (He didn't catch the sarcasm) The look and seriousness my kid said it to me gave me pause. He's 6.

Can I link a grandma turning her son in to a son turning a dad in when something is crammed down their throat via government? Yes. Yes I can.

Which is why I am doing what I have to to even put him, teh kid, on a moderate footing when it comes to my own theological ideas.

Are you kidding me?! What did you say after that?

552 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:49:10am

re: #529 Jadespring

Food nuts?

to distinguish from the laundry nuts...don't eat the laundry nuts;)

553 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:49:15am

Taking a minute to play ping-pong. Be back in a bit.

554 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:49:30am

re: #549 Spare O'Lake

Careful, the pack is getting agitated.

cold, hard logic is my boomstick

555 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:49:39am

re: #507 Walter L. Newton

I can't find the whole quote... only videos of it. Do you have a source?

David Weigel comments on it.

Sounds like the speaker was overwrought and being a dumbass, but if a TPer had yelled a similar rant, we'd have people coming out of our ears over here to call this a flap over nothing.

556 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:49:57am

re: #553 charles_martel

Taking a minute to play ping-pong. Be back in a bit.

i just now liked you more.

557 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:50:28am

re: #548 Aceofwhat?

Yes. But human psychology is real, and many people are too cowed to ever give up a job that they have, to take that risk.

Hell, I'm in a completely privledged position right now, starting my own consultancy company and all, and it still scares the bejesus out of me even though every rational economic analysis says that I'll be better off doing it this way.

There's something about a 'stable' job with a 'real' company that still gives the illusion of permanency and safety, even though we all know that companies fire people at the drop of a hat whenever its convenient for them, and that companies can go out of business overnight.

558 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:50:37am

re: #546 Obdicut

Sure. But that's also called The Slippery Slope Fallacy. If we accept that there are some necessary restrictions on speech and that there is a danger of going too far, then it doesn't really add anything to point out that any new limit can have unintended consequences. What would be adding something is to directly show how that consequence would play out.

well said

559 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:51:09am

re: #508 NJDhockeyfan

Yup. Have been for years.

Not the same school, not the same issue.

560 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:51:56am

re: #510 Aceofwhat?

Have you read Scratch Beginnings? A much more realistic tale, IMHO.

Nickle-and-Dimed is unrealistic on a few fronts.

How so? It's an account of a reporting experiment.

561 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:52:47am

re: #512 Aceofwhat?

More importantly, she didn't stay long enough to work her way up...which is sorta the point of working.

Low-wage jobs are not synonymous with dead-end jobs. They CAN be...but they don't NEED to be.

Except that she's not just writing about her own experience, she's writing about her coworkers.

562 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:52:52am

re: #542 Obdicut

I don't know. I have no plan. But I'd like to recognize their existence.

I just got a bonus at work-- even though they know I'm leaving-- because they want me to continue doing contract work for them. Almost a bribe, really. it makes perfect capitalistic sense; I'm a great performer.

However, one of my co-workers had his wife get into a terrible accident, after which she's become addicted to painkillers and, frankly, her personality has changed and she's now unreliable and occasionally violent. He still comes to work every day and does a good day's work, despite dealing with a tragedy I can't even comprehend. I feel he should be rewarded for that. At the same time, I should be, for capitalistic efficiency's sake, rewarded for my output.

It is a dilemma. And of course one of the best ways to fix it is on the individual level, by recognizing and helping out those who are meeker or awkward or unpleasant. I can't think of any systematic fix.

Obdi - there are ways to "reward" employees other than additional money.

For instance, perhaps the employer, knowing of the circumstances, will be a bit forgiving if this guy has to be away from work for a bit and his attendance falls. Or perhaps they have an Employee Assistance Program that can give him some support.

My employer would allow people to donate some sick leave to co-workers who had some sort of catastrophic illness and exhausted their sick and vacation leave, so they would be able to continue to receive a paycheck.

All of these things are "rewards" that don't involve a bigger paycheck.

563 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:52:58am

re: #557 Obdicut

Yes. But human psychology is real, and many people are too cowed to ever give up a job that they have, to take that risk.

Hell, I'm in a completely privledged position right now, starting my own consultancy company and all, and it still scares the bejesus out of me even though every rational economic analysis says that I'll be better off doing it this way.

There's something about a 'stable' job with a 'real' company that still gives the illusion of permanency and safety, even though we all know that companies fire people at the drop of a hat whenever its convenient for them, and that companies can go out of business overnight.

I hear you. But leaving a bad job for a job with the potential to be less bad is as small a risk as you'll find. Something must be ventured if one wishes to gain...

What you're doing is a LOT more bold than leaving WalMart for Foot Locker (i'm making this up), and i'll be rooting for you the entire way-

564 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:54:48am

Stupid recession.

I'm thinking of opening a Unicorn Ranch. Any interested investors???

565 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:54:49am

re: #542 Obdicut

I don't know. I have no plan. But I'd like to recognize their existence.

I just got a bonus at work-- even though they know I'm leaving-- because they want me to continue doing contract work for them. Almost a bribe, really. it makes perfect capitalistic sense; I'm a great performer.

However, one of my co-workers had his wife get into a terrible accident, after which she's become addicted to painkillers and, frankly, her personality has changed and she's now unreliable and occasionally violent. He still comes to work every day and does a good day's work, despite dealing with a tragedy I can't even comprehend. I feel he should be rewarded for that. At the same time, I should be, for capitalistic efficiency's sake, rewarded for my output.

It is a dilemma. And of course one of the best ways to fix it is on the individual level, by recognizing and helping out those who are meeker or awkward or unpleasant. I can't think of any systematic fix.

Oh, and btw - when I see people who would make great employees in better jobs than the one they hold - if it's possible, I will mention it to them and make some suggestions as to where they should consider applying. Whether they do or not . . .up to them. But perhaps my notice of them will give them the little spurt of confidence they need.

566 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:54:53am

re: #555 SanFranciscoZionist

David Weigel comments on it.

Sounds like the speaker was overwrought and being a dumbass, but if a TPer had yelled a similar rant, we'd have people coming out of our ears over here to call this a flap over nothing.

'We will not stop! We will take up our shovels and our pickaxes, and we break the land, and make your landscaping, and clean your toilets, and our plungers. We will use them against you! Believe that!"

Ha... he was talking about continuing to work and using that work ethnic as a positive example... when someone prints the whole quote, it's not threatening at all... unless you consider someone promising to do a good job as threatening.

But I will have to disagree with your second point. If that came out of the mouth of TP'er, I would worry. They are violent and racist.

567 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:55:03am

re: #560 SanFranciscoZionist

How so? It's an account of a reporting experiment.

Huh? It's a dude who started with nothing to see if he could meet a few objective goals after a year.

I'm misunderstanding you, i think...

568 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:55:45am

re: #564 Varek Raith

Stupid recession.

I'm thinking of opening a Unicorn Ranch. Any interested investors???

What do you mean? The recovery is on track.

569 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:56:13am

re: #562 reine.de.tout

It's a good point that not all rewards are monetary. We, as a team, do pitch in to help him out, as well. But those are rewards I see as being driven by the people at the company, rather than the actual capitalistic structure of the company.

Basically, I think the saving grace of capitalism is people. If you had perfect AIs running a capitalist system, it would quickly became very savage and unkind to anyone who wasn't a capitalist. Human beings are what make capitalism tenable, and I feel that too many people have a rather strange attitude that capitalism makes things 'fair'. It doesn't. The only place fairness can ever come is from fellow human beings judging and acting on our unique situations.

570 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:56:46am

re: #557 Obdicut

Yes. But human psychology is real, and many people are too cowed to ever give up a job that they have, to take that risk.

Hell, I'm in a completely privledged position right now, starting my own consultancy company and all, and it still scares the bejesus out of me even though every rational economic analysis says that I'll be better off doing it this way.

There's something about a 'stable' job with a 'real' company that still gives the illusion of permanency and safety, even though we all know that companies fire people at the drop of a hat whenever its convenient for them, and that companies can go out of business overnight.

The key is for the consultant to diversify the client base, as I'm sure is obvious. Otherwise, if still dependent on one client for virtually all of one's billings, a nominal "consultant" is merely an employee with no benefits who gets to write off more expenses than an employee.

571 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:57:12am

re: #539 Oh no...Sand People!

It was interesting. A lot of the locals there loved the idea of freedom. Loved the music, loved the fashion, loved the money, just hated the ones who actually got to have it.

One guy I met and associated with, his grandma turned him into the Gov't for owning blue jeans and listening to the Beatles. Spent 2 years in Siberia.

Yesterday my kid came home and threatened to tell his teacher on me for saying I don't care about the Earth. (He didn't catch the sarcasm) The look and seriousness my kid said it to me gave me pause. He's 6.

Can I link a grandma turning her son in to a son turning a dad in when something is crammed down their throat via government? Yes. Yes I can.

Which is why I am doing what I have to to even put him, teh kid, on a moderate footing when it comes to my own theological ideas.

You think your son's first grade teacher is going to turn you in to the government for failing to be sufficiently eco-friendly?

572 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:57:36am

re: #569 Obdicut

Heh.
I tell my daughter:
Life's not always fair, get over it.
Sometimes that's they way it has to be.

573 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:57:37am

re: #568 Walter L. Newton

What do you mean? The recovery is on track.

Dammit, Walter, you're ruining my scam!

574 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:58:26am

re: #570 Spare O'Lake

Yep. And the IRS is cracking down on that, too. I do expect most of my billings to go to my current company, but I want that number to diminish over time.

575 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:58:29am

re: #551 MandyManners

Are you kidding me?! What did you say after that?

It was honestly pretty creepy. We were watching cartoons. (dang rights, I love Spongebob.) Then a commercial came on about helping the environment.

Joking I said, "Blah blah blah, who cares about the Earth." (But yeah he's 6 so I can understand how he could take my tone wrong, but we joke a lot.)

Now this kid is a bubbly, upbeat kid, but immediately he turned and looked at me with a dark look, "Dad, I care about the Earth. My teacher is going to hear about this and she won't like it." He was mortified.

So I said to him, "Buddy, we need to pick up the garbage and litter and be good stewards (then I explained the word steward to him). The earth is important. But just to let you know for the future and this is one of the most important things I think I can tell you, even if you just remember the words and don't get what it means, "Question Authority".

I would have explained what that means but Spongebob came back on. I do try to throw it out their on occasion though. But the idea that he was so willing to throw me under the bus for his teacher's 'cause' is what got me little concerned.

/Now if it was my cause on the other hand...

576 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:58:48am

re: #572 reine.de.tout

Heh.
I tell my daughter:
Life's not always fair, get over it.
Sometimes that's they way it has to be.

And actually, that's not as harsh as it sounds.
What it means is - pick yourself up and FIND A DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITY - or different friends, or whatever, just make a change.

577 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:59:21am

re: #544 reine.de.tout

Those kinds of books - I will read for the descriptions of the experiences people have, as well as the conclusions they draw even if I disagree.

Every little bit of information helps us understand the world around us.

I think that's a good approach.

I don't understand the hostility toward Ehrenreich's book, honestly. It's very clear about what it is.

The 'sequel' was a similar experiment in white-collar work, and it didn't work nearly as well.

578 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:00:37am

re: #571 SanFranciscoZionist

You think your son's first grade teacher is going to turn you in to the government for failing to be sufficiently eco-friendly?

By 2020 I'll get back to you on that.

I wish I was joking.

579 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:00:43am

re: #577 SanFranciscoZionist

Agreed. She clearly addressed every objection that I've heard against the book in this thread in the actual book.

580 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:01:26am

re: #567 Aceofwhat?

Huh? It's a dude who started with nothing to see if he could meet a few objective goals after a year.

I'm misunderstanding you, i think...

Yes, I was referring to Ehrenreich.

581 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:01:51am

Time for the morning shameless cookbook promotion:

Volume 2 of the LGF Readers cookbook is ready! Click my nic to get to the blog, and then click the orange LULU button to the right. Volume 1 is still available at the blue LULU button.

The price of the book is set just as the price was for Volume 1, that is, the sale of the book will result in a "profit" of $5 per book sold. This will be distributed according to the final distribution vote - the vote closes on April 30th.

There are lots of great recipes, plus special bonus material!

Killgore has his very own special gardening section.

And be sure to check out the ROFLMAO section, which includes a Very Long Geeky Engineer Pun Thread; the Definitive Cognito Banning Timeline; How Honcos Came To Be; We Have Our Very Own Personal SpaceJesus; Viagra Creates the 4-hour Thread; and many more! These feature comments by a cast of - well - a lot - including FBV, Lazardo, Walter L Newton, Spare O'Lake, LVQ, Slumbering Behemoth, Hoosier Hoops and many others!

A NOTE ABOUT THE PROOFING: There was a lot of help with that, but remember that everyone who helped is an amateur volunteer!

Also, in the ROFLMAO section - any errors were left intact in that section, in which people's comments appear exactly as written. Hehehe.

And as a bonus, there are more than a dozen illustrations inside Cookbook 2, which is helpfully priced below the cost of Cookbook 1.

And Mandy - your Egg Goop is in there, with a handwritten note acknowledging the heinous error in Volume 1 where it was accidentally left out.

582 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:02:27am

re: #546 Obdicut

Sure. But that's also called The Slippery Slope Fallacy. If we accept that there are some necessary restrictions on speech and that there is a danger of going too far, then it doesn't really add anything to point out that any new limit can have unintended consequences. What would be adding something is to directly show how that consequence would play out.

Well, I believe that I made a valid point upthread by stating that outllawing promotions and incentives by companies for children's food, creates a precedent for outlawing promotions and incentives for anything a future congress might deem "unhealthy" or not in the public interest.

583 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:02:57am

re: #450 Obdicut

Have you read Nickle-and-Dimed, Reine? I think you might like it a lot.

That is a great book.

584 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:03:36am

re: #556 Aceofwhat?

i just now liked you more.

I get to play way too much ping-pong at work.....

585 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:03:36am

re: #578 Oh no...Sand People!

By 2020 I'll get back to you on that.

I wish I was joking.

Have you ever considered how you kid feels about the environment? Is it possible that he is genuinely concerned about certain issues, and a clavier attitude about these issues is something he can't deal with?

586 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:04:24am

re: #581 reine.de.tout

Is there a Kindle version?
/

587 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:04:37am

re: #582 charles_martel

Well, I believe that I made a valid point upthread by stating that outllawing promotions and incentives by companies for children's food, creates a precedent for outlawing promotions and incentives for anything a future congress might deem "unhealthy" or not in the public interest.

Oh I don't agree with outlawing promotions, mainly because it's an unworkable idea.

588 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:04:52am

re: #578 Oh no...Sand People!

By 2020 I'll get back to you on that.

I wish I was joking.

Whoa.

589 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:04:59am

re: #582 charles_martel

Well, I believe that I made a valid point upthread by stating that outllawing promotions and incentives by companies for children's food, creates a precedent for outlawing promotions and incentives for anything a future congress might deem "unhealthy" or not in the public interest.

Hypothetical:

I walk up to you. and 1. I say I am going to punch you. 2. Cock my fist back. 3. Run up to you at full speed.

Would it be fallacious for you to punch me in defense?

I agree with what you say FYI. In theory I agree with the X,Y,Z fallacy, but in practice I let common sense take over.

590 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:05:04am

re: #582 charles_martel

Well, I believe that I made a valid point upthread by stating that outllawing promotions and incentives by companies for children's food, creates a precedent for outlawing promotions and incentives for anything a future congress might deem "unhealthy" or not in the public interest.

And that would be a good idea. We already have bans on certain kinds of advertising of products that are not good for us, why can't we have the same considerations for our children, who are probably more susceptible than adults?

591 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:06:32am

re: #585 Walter L. Newton

Have you ever considered how you kid feels about the environment? Is it possible that he is genuinely concerned about certain issues, and a clavier attitude about these issues is something he can't deal with?

No. Once the McDonald's toys and promos about the environment are removed I wont have to worry about it.

/Just kidding.

But yes. We have addressed the topic.

592 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:06:53am

re: #574 Obdicut

Yep. And the IRS is cracking down on that, too. I do expect most of my billings to go to my current company, but I want that number to diminish over time.

I'm sure the tax rules are different down there, but up here in Canada the CRA looks at a number of factors, including whether the consultant owns its own equipment, has its own business premises, has a separate corporate existence, has any other employees, spends all its time working for one client, etc. I'm sure you have been prudent enough to get professional tax advice in order to minimize your risk of being labeled an "employee".

593 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:07:05am

re: #591 Oh no...Sand People!

No. Once the McDonald's toys and promos about the environment are removed I wont have to worry about it.

/Just kidding.

But yes. We have addressed the topic.

Good... that makes me feel better.

594 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:07:15am

re: #582 charles_martel

And to add full disclosure: I work for a company that makes educational children's toys, and we advertise to children as well as parents. And by parents, I really mean moms-- egalitarianism aside, mothers still make the vast majority of purchase decisions about products for children.

595 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:07:37am

re: #586 Mad Al-Jaffee

Is there a Kindle version?
/

Heavens no!

The artwork is too precious for a Kindle version.

596 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:08:01am

re: #592 Spare O'Lake

It's pretty simple; it has to do with freedom and scheduling. If they set my schedule and allow me not creativity, then I'm an employee. But having at least one other client also helps.

597 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:09:49am

re: #593 Walter L. Newton

Good... that makes me feel better.

And this addresses the larger point I want to get at. Your feelings, his teachers feelings, and Governments feelings mean nothing to me in terms of how they want to use them to regulate and project how I have to live my life or even raise my child.

The rules in place are enough and we don't need more...but that's just how I 'feel'. ;)

598 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:09:57am

Gen. Franco, is that you? New reports indicate that the Taliban leader Mehsud isn't dead after all. He was thought killed in a January UAV airstrike. Now, he's apparently keeping a low profile to avoid allowing the US to regain his trail.

599 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:10:28am

re: #564 Varek Raith

Stupid recession.

I'm thinking of opening a Unicorn Ranch. Any interested investors???

Hunting?

600 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:10:32am

But now I got to design some ads. Later folks.

601 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:11:04am

re: #599 MandyManners

Hunting?

Yes.
:evilgrin:

602 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:11:29am

re: #597 Oh no...Sand People!

And this addresses the larger point I want to get at. Your feelings, his teachers feelings, and Governments feelings mean nothing to me in terms of how they want to use them to regulate and project how I have to live my life or even raise my child.

The rules in place are enough and we don't need more...but that's just how I 'feel'. ;)

Oh... you're serious... that makes me feel sad.

603 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:11:38am

re: #574 Obdicut

Yep. And the IRS is cracking down on that, too. I do expect most of my billings to go to my current company, but I want that number to diminish over time.

I'm sure you are aware of this, but just in case:
The IRS has lots of information about how to determine if a person is an independent contractor vs an employee.

604 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:11:58am

re: #575 Oh no...Sand People!

Now this kid is a bubbly, upbeat kid, but immediately he turned and looked at me with a dark look, "Dad, I care about the Earth. My teacher is going to hear about this and she won't like it." He was mortified.

I'd start looking into the chance that his school encourages kids to "tattle" on their parents.

605 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:12:09am

re: #580 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, I was referring to Ehrenreich.

whoops. sorry!

606 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:12:32am

re: #590 Walter L. Newton

And that would be a good idea. We already have bans on certain kinds of advertising of products that are not good for us, why can't we have the same considerations for our children, who are probably more susceptible than adults?

And I believe that all new government restrictions should be challenged, debated, and analyzed. I don't share your optimism and trust in the governments wise decisions about my freedom to choose.

607 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:13:52am

Mexican Buffet. Good.

Sign on the wall, that I'm finding funny. Wish Hoops was here.

It says...

"We only serve the finest California Wines here. Did you bring any?"

608 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:13:58am

re: #601 Varek Raith

Yes.
:evilgrin:

A unicorn's horn would look great over the mantle next to my X's left nut.

609 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:14:47am

re: #606 charles_martel

And I believe that all new government restrictions should be challenged, debated, and analyzed. I don't share your optimism and trust in the governments wise decisions about my freedom to choose.

Both the extreme right and the extreme left.

610 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:15:18am

re: #590 Walter L. Newton

And that would be a good idea. We already have bans on certain kinds of advertising of products that are not good for us, why can't we have the same considerations for our children, who are probably more susceptible than adults?

is regulation free? and are kids driving up to Mickey D's without dad in the car?

bet you my kiwi that i can spend the same regulatory $ elsewhere and save more lives...

611 brennant  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:17:24am

re: #128 Mad Al-Jaffee

This made me howl. It is now my FB status, with proper credit to you and LGF.

612 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:17:58am

re: #610 Aceofwhat?

is regulation free? and are kids driving up to Mickey D's without dad in the car?

bet you my kiwi that i can spend the same regulatory $ elsewhere and save more lives...

It wouldn't be a money problem if President Obama didn't make a promise not to raise taxes on people making under 250,000 dollars. That was a bad move. I don't think there is any problem with taking what ever he needs from people making under 250,000... that's a lot of people, it's the majority of people, and it shouldn't be just the responsibility of the rich to make up the deficits... there's a whole lot of poorer citizens who can contribute.

That would help a lot.

613 charles_martel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:19:41am

re: #609 MandyManners

Both the extreme right and the extreme left.

Exactly. Good and just laws may be fine for an administration that you like. But any law can be abused (and expanded upon) by a future government that may have a different agenda.

614 avanti  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:20:25am

With the potential environmental mess brewing in the gulf I wonder if Palin will change her sound bite to "Spill baby,spill. This could set the off- shore drilling drive back a bit if the spill hits the shoreline of the gulf. Spills are going to happen, we need to learn to contain them.
BP will pay all of the expenses, and they may be significant.

615 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:21:38am

re: #612 Walter L. Newton

It wouldn't be a money problem if President Obama didn't make a promise not to raise taxes on people making under 250,000 dollars. That was a bad move. I don't think there is any problem with taking what ever he needs from people making under 250,000... that's a lot of people, it's the majority of people, and it shouldn't be just the responsibility of the rich to make up the deficits... there's a whole lot of poorer citizens who can contribute.

That would help a lot.

the right amount of taxes and the right amount of government spending is good. we often debate on where to draw that line, but i'm not a "no taxes" person...that's just ridiculous.

but money is far, far better off in the pockets of mom and dad or reducing the deficit than in the hands of some nimrod state pol trying to ban kid's toys at drive-thrus.

it's not even close, my mile-high friend...

616 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:21:50am

re: #614 avanti

With the potential environmental mess brewing in the gulf I wonder if Palin will change her sound bite to "Spill baby,spill. This could set the off- shore drilling drive back a bit if the spill hits the shoreline of the gulf. Spills are going to happen, we need to learn to contain them.
BP will pay all of the expenses, and they may be significant.

8 billion.
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

617 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:22:20am

re: #614 avanti

With the potential environmental mess brewing in the gulf I wonder if Palin will change her sound bite to "Spill baby,spill. This could set the off- shore drilling drive back a bit if the spill hits the shoreline of the gulf. Spills are going to happen, we need to learn to contain them.
BP will pay all of the expenses, and they may be significant.


Conservatives have sadly stopped caring about the environment. It leads to socialism or something.

618 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:22:56am

re: #597 Oh no...Sand People!

And this addresses the larger point I want to get at. Your feelings, his teachers feelings, and Governments feelings mean nothing to me in terms of how they want to use them to regulate and project how I have to live my life or even raise my child.

The rules in place are enough and we don't need more...but that's just how I 'feel'. ;)

Here's the problem: First grade teachers teach social values. They teach standing in line, and sharing, and asking first, and saying please and thank you, and putting the paper in the recycling bin, and saluting the flag.

Children are taught that their teachers are authorities, and they have been coming home and saying "My teacher says blah...you don't do it right..." at home for as long as there have been first-grade teachers. Eventually, your son will learn to balance out what's important to his parents, what's important at school, and what's important to him as an adult.

So basically, this seems to be about what you are feeling, which seems to be concern that the government is trying to interfere in your life. And frankly, the analogy to adult family members turning one another in to the authorities under the Soviets seems overwrought and sort of paranoid to me. As did your odd comment about keeping your son at a distance from your theological beliefs.

Is Miss Nancy really the thin wedge of the Eco-Tyranny?

619 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:24:30am

re: #608 MandyManners

Ix-nay on astration-kay alk-tay!

620 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:24:31am

re: #617 Killgore Trout

Conservatives have sadly stopped caring about the environment. It leads to socialism or something.

Wait - Mandy can't complain about progressives writing about capitalism but it's ok to say that conservatives don't care about the environment?

I don't agree with everything that Mandy says or does but i'm having a dissonance alert...

621 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:24:34am

Massive fail on Drudge. Bitching about a Pelosi photoshop but it's right next to an airbrushed pic of Laura Bush.

622 freetoken  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:25:12am

I see we have more Kahane-ists in the spin-offs. They never post an entry in the body of threads, but they love to pimp their blogs in the spin-offs.

623 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:25:15am

re: #613 charles_martel

Exactly. Good and just laws may be fine for an administration that you like. But any law can be abused (and expanded upon) by a future government that may have a different agenda.

Didja' read the link above about the abortion law in Oklahoma has been challenged already? The plaintiffs are seeking an injunction.

624 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:25:21am

re: #620 Aceofwhat?

I have no problem with anything Mandy said.

625 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:26:06am

re: #624 Killgore Trout

I have no problem with anything Mandy said.

Point taken. Anyone else?

626 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:26:12am

re: #615 Aceofwhat?

Ace, how do you feel about restrictions on tobacco companies promoting cigarettes to kids? Are there any examples of government restrictions on advertising that you are comfortable with?

627 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:26:29am

re: #620 Aceofwhat?

Wait - Mandy can't complain about progressives writing about capitalism but it's ok to say that conservatives don't care about the environment?

I don't agree with everything that Mandy says or does but i'm having a dissonance alert...

No one said Mandy couldn't, some argued that she shouldn't.

You should feel free to do likewise!

628 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:26:29am

re: #617 Killgore Trout

Conservatives have sadly stopped caring about the environment. It leads to socialism or something.

Most conservatives I know care about the environment.

629 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:26:44am

re: #619 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ix-nay on astration-kay alk-tay!

At least I wasn't a doctor in England who removed the whole thing instead of just a litlte cyst.

630 freetoken  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:26:45am

re: #621 Killgore Trout

You're assuming too much of the faithful believers in Drudge's truthfulness.

631 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:27:46am

re: #612 Walter L. Newton

I'm on record. I would gladly accept a five year, five percent income tax increase. But I'd want it to be wired di-fucking-rectly to whoever the guy is who we owe the most money to.

Out of my check... ACH'd to a spot where the pols can't get at it and it will immediately begin to reduce the debt.

Oh, and, an across the board spending freeze.

632 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:28:07am

re: #626 iossarian

Ace, how do you feel about restrictions on tobacco companies promoting cigarettes to kids? Are there any examples of government restrictions on advertising that you are comfortable with?

oh, absolutely. i have no trouble making logical distinctions between the restrictions on marketing cigarettes, alcohol, etc. to kids and the question of marketing drive-through toys. just saying it out loud is almost humorous...

as Obdicut said, it's about where to draw the line...but this line seems simpler to draw than most.

633 zzzzzzzzzz.....  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:28:33am

Hello All...But they won't do that we are being taxed without being represented at all....

634 webevintage  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:28:59am

re: #583 prairiefire

That is a great book.


re: #621 Killgore Trout

Massive fail on Drudge. Bitching about a Pelosi photoshop but it's right next to an airbrushed pic of Laura Bush.


No "real" news for Drudge to bitch about today?

(I'm always surprised that people go to that crappy site.)

635 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:29:35am

re: #632 Aceofwhat?

oh, absolutely. i have no trouble making logical distinctions between the restrictions on marketing cigarettes, alcohol, etc. to kids and the question of marketing drive-through toys. just saying it out loud is almost humorous...

as Obdicut said, it's about where to draw the line...but this line seems simpler to draw than most.

Beer and hard liquor are both advertised on television. But, considering the sheer addictive nature of smokes, I can understand the ban.

636 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:29:43am

re: #632 Aceofwhat?

Really? What's the logic you apply?

I'm honestly not trolling here - I don't see any "bright line" myself. I happen to think fast food companies shouldn't be allowed to promote their incredibly unhealthy food to kids. You disagree, but on what grounds?

637 avanti  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:29:43am

re: #616 Cannadian Club Akbar

8 billion.
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

From your link:

"The Deepwater Horizon rig was reportedly not equipped with a shutoff switch that could have been used to try to close the well. Such switches are not required in the United States, but are used in other countries such as Norway and Brazil. "

My question is, if true, why not a requirement in the US ? That's one government regulation all could sides could support.

638 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:29:47am

re: #628 Spare O'Lake

Most conservatives I know care about the environment.

Then why don't Republican politicians or conservative pundits advance ideas to protect the environment?

639 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:30:47am

re: #633 zzzzzzzzzz.....

Hello All...But they won't do that we are being taxed without being represented at all...

Repost in English please.

640 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:30:47am

re: #627 SanFranciscoZionist

No one said Mandy couldn't, some argued that she shouldn't.

You should feel free to do likewise!

i sorta dislike blanket statements of all sorts...i noticed that you do too.

i disagree with both Mandy's statement and Killgore's statement, although i mean 'disagree' in a very apathetic sense....

i'll take others' silence as tacit assent to my point!!

641 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:31:31am

re: #636 iossarian

I disagree on capitalist grounds.

I also think parents shouldn't buy that shit for their kids.

That is where the responsibility lies.

642 MandyManners  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:32:41am

re: #638 Killgore Trout

Then why don't Republican politicians or conservative pundits advance ideas to protect the environment?

None ever have? Not even Teddy Roosevelt?

643 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:32:49am

re: #617 Killgore Trout

Some environmentalists don't care about the environment either. They're too busy opposing wind farms, or buying up (or building) massive mansions on the coast that far outstrip their needs (do as they say, but don't do as they do).

In the case of the Cape Wind project, the environmentalists demanded and got a reduction in the number of turbines from 170 down to 130 (and predict that the number will drop further due to ongoing opposition). Here's what the Cape Wind project will do when it is eventually built:

The project is a big win for Siemens who will supply 130 3.6 MW towers, outbidding GE, Vestas, and other competitors. Siemens has already sold over 1,000 of these large off-shore turbines. The Cape Wind facility will generate a maximum electric output of 468 megawatts with an average anticipated output of 182 megawatts. At average expected production, Cape Wind could produce enough energy to power more than 200,000 homes in Massachusetts, or charge 200,000 electric cars.

So, if we had 170 instead of 130 turbines, we'd have another 144MW in power, and an average of 238MW instead of 182MW. Tell me again how the opposition is helping the environment?

644 freetoken  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:33:27am

re: #642 MandyManners

Teddy was... shhh... a progressive. Indeed Glen Beck loves to crucify Teddy for that.

645 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:33:30am

re: #628 Spare O'Lake

Most conservatives I know care about the environment.

I think if you ask most conservatives about environmental ideas and principles, they'll agree. I also think if you ask them specifically about ideas that liberals espouse, in most cases they agree or have very minor points of difference. Similarly, I think if you ask liberals about ideas that conservatives would hold dear, most would agree in the general sense. Most people are not crazy extremists. Stupid and easily led, yes, but not crazy extremists.

The main point of difference is really that 'everything the other side believes in is evil and wrong, because the other side is entirely made up of Satan's spawn'. And this attitude unfortunately looms large in the consciousness of too many, because that is the attitude that is fostered by the media they follow, both regular and blogosphere. There are strong elements of it on both sides of the aisle, though I think the Conservative cult media is very much the worst, and most organised, exponent of it. And for that reason alone, I think that unfortunate attitude runs strong in today's Conservative movement.

646 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:34:03am

re: #636 iossarian

Really? What's the logic you apply?

I'm honestly not trolling here - I don't see any "bright line" myself. I happen to think fast food companies shouldn't be allowed to promote their incredibly unhealthy food to kids. You disagree, but on what grounds?

No problem with an honest question!

first, see #334 (i think that was it)

second, drugs which are inherently addictive are an entirely different question. how is fast food different than candy bars, ice cream...do you support a ban of the marketing of ALL unhealthy foods to kids?

having fast food once or twice per month is absolutely fine. having cigarettes or alcohol once or twice a month, as a minor, is absolutely horrific.

see how much sense i make? i'm here all week...have some apple fries;)

647 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:34:56am

re: #638 Killgore Trout

Then why don't Republican politicians or conservative pundits advance ideas to protect the environment?

you mean like attempts to build nuclear power plants?

SNAPPITY SNAP

;)

648 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:35:30am

re: #641 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I disagree on capitalist grounds.

I also think parents shouldn't often buy that shit for their kids.

That is where the responsibility lies.

ftfy...

649 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:35:43am

re: #645 Renaissance_Man

"That's what the Man said. So, won't you listen to what the man said."
-Paul McCartney

Nice.

650 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:36:03am

re: #638 Killgore Trout

Then why don't Republican politicians or conservative pundits advance ideas to protect the environment?

Most do, but their priorities are a bit different due to their greater belief in market forces and suspicion of government.

651 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:36:08am

re: #641 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think perhaps the biggest difference between right-wing and left-wing views is the amount of control and responsibility that parents have over their kids' future. It goes all the way from economic (how much do we level the playing field for the next generation) to social (can teachers encourage kids to disagree with their parents' views - see upthread comments, and I realize that the original discussion arose from a misunderstanding).

I don't see that there's a moral argument in favor of either position really, other than observing the outcomes (along the whole spectrum from Victorian capitalism through post-war Western Europe to COMMUNIST RUSSIA).

652 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:36:37am

re: #648 Aceofwhat?

Yeah... once a month? Get yer damn kid a happy meal.

I agree.

653 vinnievin  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:37:04am

ooh no agenda show is streaming right now at [Link: www.noagendastream.com...]

check it out, post your thoughts please

654 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:38:12am

re: #637 avanti

From your link:

"The Deepwater Horizon rig was reportedly not equipped with a shutoff switch that could have been used to try to close the well. Such switches are not required in the United States, but are used in other countries such as Norway and Brazil. "

My question is, if true, why not a requirement in the US ? That's one government regulation all could sides could support.

indeed.

i nominate this regulation as a more worthy expense than banning small plastic toys in drive-thrus.

regulation ain't free. let's spend it where we need it.

655 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:39:54am

re: #646 Aceofwhat?

Well, fair enough. I happen to think that eating fast food one or twice a month is probably about as bad as, or at least comparable to, smoking a cigarette once or twice a month. For minors and adults alike.

In the 50s, a lot of people would probably have agreed (though they would have thought that both were mostly harmless). The difference is that cigarettes have been demonized since then (largely due to government policies to curb smoking) while fast food is still marketed as part of a happy childhood. If Ronald McDonald had been banned in the 50s, I think we'd have a very different view of cheeseburgers today.

656 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:39:56am

re: #651 iossarian

can teachers encourage kids to disagree with their parents' views?

I get there was disagreement upthread, but I'd like to address that sentence.

A teacher who teaches/encourages my kid to disagree with me's gonna have a problem.
A teacher who teaches/encourages my kid to think for him/herself is gonna have my respect.

657 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:40:34am

re: #611 brennant

This made me howl. It is now my FB status, with proper credit to you and LGF.

Glad you liked it!

658 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:40:45am

re: #637 avanti


My question is, if true, why not a requirement in the US ? That's one government regulation all could sides could support.

If regulations on industrial safety were indeed ones that enjoyed broad support, accidents like this and mine disasters would be much less common.

I think we can all see who would oppose such regulations, and why.

659 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:41:31am

re: #652 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

When I was growing up in France it was common for some parents to give their young children small quantities of wine on a regular basis. Admittedly the practice was being discouraged and has probably since declined, again as a result of government policies.

What's the difference between this and giving a child a "Happy Meal" (not the name!) once in a while?

660 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:42:03am

re: #655 iossarian

Well, fair enough. I happen to think that eating fast food one or twice a month is probably about as bad as, or at least comparable to, smoking a cigarette once or twice a month. For minors and adults alike.

Nominally, i agree. If one can stick to two cigarettes and two fast-food meals per month, living well otherwise, one's health will not be impacted.

Now, though, i want you to ask some folks here who have or are desperately trying to quit smoking about your point...specifically, about whether you've considered all of the variables involved.

661 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:43:25am

re: #655 iossarian

I remember seeing an ad for Vantage Cigarettes by Mario Lanza... talked about how they helped sooth his throat before he sang...

Mario Lanza died as the result of a new "fad" diet.

See why I don't diet?

662 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:44:41am

re: #659 iossarian

What's the difference between this and giving a child a "Happy Meal" (not the name!) once in a while?

seriously? what's the difference between occasionally giving a kid a mind-altering drug and an occasional happy meal?

663 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:44:42am

re: #656 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

OK, a real world example that applies to me. What if one day you're a grandparent, and your child chews you out for giving your grandchildren a Happy Meal while you're looking after them? And basically goes on to say: if you won't promise not to do it again, we can't have the kids stay with you any more?

Do you respect your child's right to think differently then?

664 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:45:28am

re: #659 iossarian

There was an episode of "Everybody Loves Raymond" where Robert (the brother) found out that the caramel colored sugar water that momma gave him at bedtime as a boy was bourbon.

665 avanti  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:45:48am

re: #658 Renaissance_Man

If regulations on industrial safety were indeed ones that enjoyed broad support, accidents like this and mine disasters would be much less common.

I think we can all see who would oppose such regulations, and why.

Yep, you get lobbyists claiming the regulation will stifle their ability to be good capitalists and make a profit for the shareholders.

666 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:46:36am

re: #663 iossarian

Absolutely. Of course my son is "Super-Vegan!". I'd know better than to take his kid to a McDonalds. If I did? I'd deserve the tongue lashing he'd give me.

667 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:47:56am
Yeah... once a month? Get yer damn kid a happy meal.

I agree.

I am taking my kids tonight and booking a birthday party. McD.'s is half the price of Chuckie Cheese's and we are budgeting this year. After this year, we switch to the "taking two friends out to dinner" birthday parties.

668 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:48:01am

re: #662 Aceofwhat?

Fast food has been shown to be addictive. We've been socialized to think of alcohol in one way and fast food in another. From a health perspective (life expectancy etc.) their effects may be very close. In any case, a sip of wine is not going to show a measurable "mind-altering effect".

Meanwhile, although the effect of sugar on kids is sometimes overstated, there are definitely foods that have a behavioral impact on kids that you could call "mind-altering".

So yes, I am serious - what is the difference between a sip of wine and a Happy Meal, in terms of their long-term effects on a child's health?

669 Semper Fi  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:50:33am

re: #413 Joo-LiZ

Troubling signs in the geo-political alignment in the Middle East.

Thanks to Obama's policy (or lack thereof), we are already seeing major shifts.

Barry Rubin looks at some obvious examples:

With so much going south with US Foreign Policy, why can't more people make legitimate criticisms instead of unleashing the craziness?

Good morning, Lizard Nation, from wonderful weather Phoenix, AZ

Thanks for that post Liz. Now, if only all our gov't administrations, present and future, would just stay mindful of the score.

670 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:51:21am

re: #667 prairiefire

I am taking my kids tonight and booking a birthday party. McD.'s is half the price of Chuckie Cheese's and we are budgeting this year. After this year, we switch to the "taking two friends out to dinner" birthday parties.

awww! C'mon! My daughter works for the Cheese!

671 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:51:40am

re: #668 iossarian

Fast food has been shown to be addictive. We've been socialized to think of alcohol in one way and fast food in another. From a health perspective (life expectancy etc.) their effects may be very close. In any case, a sip of wine is not going to show a measurable "mind-altering effect".

Meanwhile, although the effect of sugar on kids is sometimes overstated, there are definitely foods that have a behavioral impact on kids that you could call "mind-altering".

So yes, I am serious - what is the difference between a sip of wine and a Happy Meal, in terms of their long-term effects on a child's health?

First you need to explain to me why fast food is more destructive than ice cream, cookies, candy bars, or any other unhealthy food that may be lying around the house or available for purchase at the local store.

One of the flaws in your argument is demonstrated in the false distinction between fast food and other unhealthy food. I make no such distinction between different types of alcohol.

672 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:52:28am

re: #629 MandyManners

At least I wasn't a doctor in England who removed the whole thing instead of just a litlte cyst.

According to former Enron adviser Paul Krugman: "In Britain, the government itself runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We've all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false."

673 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:53:42am

re: #668 iossarian

Fast food has been shown to be addictive. We've been socialized to think of alcohol in one way and fast food in another. From a health perspective (life expectancy etc.) their effects may be very close. In any case, a sip of wine is not going to show a measurable "mind-altering effect".

Meanwhile, although the effect of sugar on kids is sometimes overstated, there are definitely foods that have a behavioral impact on kids that you could call "mind-altering".

So yes, I am serious - what is the difference between a sip of wine and a Happy Meal, in terms of their long-term effects on a child's health?

second, overeating may be an addictive disorder, but 'fast food' as a stand-alone term is nowhere near as addictive as nicotine or alcohol.

not even close...

674 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:54:07am

re: #670 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

awww! C'mon! My daughter works for the Cheese!

I spent $238 for his birthday there last year. I prefer Dave & Buster's because then I can at least drink.
The Cheese has the market cornered for 4-6 year olds.

675 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:54:08am

re: #601 Varek Raith

Yes.
:evilgrin:

In Nevada it could be taken as something else...

676 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:54:41am

re: #629 MandyManners

At least I wasn't a doctor in England who removed the whole thing instead of just a litlte cyst.

According to former Enron adviser Paul Krugman: "In Britain, the government itself runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We've all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false."

677 vinnievin  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:56:52am

i have a question - how does california plan to generate the electricity for the high speed rail

678 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:57:02am

re: #676 rwdflynavy

There are scare stories about both private and public hospitals, both private and public insurance. Mistakes happen. Anecdotes don't matter. Data does.

679 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:58:38am

re: #671 Aceofwhat?

I don't make any kind of distinction between those kinds of foods - I pick fast food because it's the obvious example.

My formal position on this is not entirely fleshed out but would be something along the lines of: companies wishing to market and/or sell any product should compensate society for the external costs that it bears due to the increased consumption of those products.

In the real world, this means some kind of tax/regulation framework that, essentially, pays up front for the long-term costs of the products involved. And of course, the real world being what it is, the actual framework would not be overly complex - maybe different foods would be assigned a "level", according to which their promotion would be regulated, or their sale would be taxed.

Note this is already what happens with cigarettes and alcohol, more or less.

680 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:00:06am

re: #673 Aceofwhat?

second, overeating may be an addictive disorder, but 'fast food' as a stand-alone term is nowhere near as addictive as nicotine or alcohol.

not even close...

This is, at least, debatable:

[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

681 vinnievin  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:00:33am

re: #677 vinnievin

i have a question - how does california plan to generate the electricity for the high speed rail

I'm just saying, solar panels won't cut it, and i dont think you can put windmills on the train car roofs. will they really endorse more nuke plants, or crank up the carbon?

682 avanti  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:01:33am

re: #668 iossarian

Fast food has been shown to be addictive. We've been socialized to think of alcohol in one way and fast food in another. From a health perspective (life expectancy etc.) their effects may be very close. In any case, a sip of wine is not going to show a measurable "mind-altering effect".

Meanwhile, although the effect of sugar on kids is sometimes overstated, there are definitely foods that have a behavioral impact on kids that you could call "mind-altering".

So yes, I am serious - what is the difference between a sip of wine and a Happy Meal, in terms of their long-term effects on a child's health?

I see both sides of the issue. I grew up in the 50, and recall mostly skinny teenagers, with the rare overweight kid. Even when McDonalds first opened, it was just 15 cent hamburgers and 19 cent cheeseburgers, fries and a small shake.
Now, you can find fast food meals that give you a full days calories in one meal. KFC just introduced a sandwich with bacon and cheese with the bun being replaced with two fried chicken breasts.
In a perfect world, parents would limit those types of meals, but they don't. Adding a toy to encourage the kid to get mommy to buy them a happy meal is good marketing on one hand, on the other it's pretty unhealthy.
Do I think the government should ban 2000 calorie sandwiches, no. I don't mind informing the public about the calories, not including toys with the meals is not so problematic to me either.

683 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:01:59am

re: #678 Obdicut

There are scare stories about both private and public hospitals, both private and public insurance. Mistakes happen. Anecdotes don't matter. Data does.


If you have enough anecdotes, you have data. James Taranto has been publishing stories from UK hospitals for a while on his Best of the Web daily email. Worth a read.

684 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:05:10am

re: #679 iossarian

My formal position on this is not entirely fleshed out but would be something along the lines of: companies wishing to market and/or sell any product should compensate society for the external costs that it bears due to the increased consumption of those products.

It would be easier to put a man on mars. that is not hyperbole. doing such a thing accurately would be stupefyingly difficult, and it is my firm desire that we stop projecting costs on society that ought to be borne primarily by those whose poor choices lead to the majority of the costs.

Note this is already what happens with cigarettes and alcohol, more or less.

again, you conflate food and drugs. for some people, food is a drug. then again...for some people, video games are a drug.

but drugs are always drugs. that's why we call them drugs.

in short: most things in life are fine in moderation. i strongly disagree with where you're going because it is much more appropriate to promote a life of moderation than to attempt to regulate every non-drug which can possibly be unhealthy in excess. you'll leave us with padded rooms and Beethoven;)

685 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:05:27am

re: #683 rwdflynavy

If you have enough anecdotes, you have data. James Taranto has been publishing stories from UK hospitals for a while on his Best of the Web daily email. Worth a read.

I have lived in the UK, the USA and Western Europe. I have had surgery, and one of my close family members has a long-term critical illness.

I can categorically state that, given the choice, I (and the family member) would choose not to endure the US health care "system" 1000 times out of 1000.

I also know many other people who have experienced both, and the vast majority of them would say the same (though perhaps not with the same vehemence).

686 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:06:16am

re: #683 rwdflynavy

If you have enough anecdotes, you have data. James Taranto has been publishing stories from UK hospitals for a while on his Best of the Web daily email. Worth a read.

No, if you have enough anecdotes and do analysis on them in a proper manner, then you have data. A collection of anecdotes is a collection of anecdotes.

687 vinnievin  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:06:31am

re: #681 vinnievin

guess i am just talking to myself. like the last guy to the party standing by the mostly empty punchbowl, i'll just sip some more of the backwash and find my way home

688 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:06:40am

re: #683 rwdflynavy

If you have enough anecdotes, you have data. James Taranto has been publishing stories from UK hospitals for a while on his Best of the Web daily email. Worth a read.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

If scare stories are what you want, a quick search on medical mistakes in the supposedly 'free market' US system will give you all you want.

689 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:06:56am

re: #680 iossarian

This is, at least, debatable:

[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

first: updinged for quoting the WSJ. nicely done;)

second: food addiction exists, and i agree that it has been shown to affect CERTAIN people in the same manner as drugs.

that is as opposed to drugs themselves, which affect MOST people in the same manner as...well, drugs.

that's why they're drugs!!

690 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:06:59am

re: #684 Aceofwhat?


but drugs are always drugs. that's why we call them drugs.

So... if enough people call a food a drug (and vote accordingly), it becomes a drug, right?

691 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:08:17am

re: #685 iossarian

I have lived in the UK, the USA and Western Europe. I have had surgery, and one of my close family members has a long-term critical illness.

I can categorically state that, given the choice, I (and the family member) would choose not to endure the US health care "system" 1000 times out of 1000.

I also know many other people who have experienced both, and the vast majority of them would say the same (though perhaps not with the same vehemence).

the data, not anecdotes, suggest that you will get better outcomes for the treatment of serious illnesses such as cancer in the US.

692 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:09:30am

re: #690 iossarian

So... if enough people call a food a drug (and vote accordingly), it becomes a drug, right?

nope. food can be a drug for some minority of people.

drugs are drugs.

oh, and only food is a prerequisite to survival...

693 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:10:31am

re: #677 vinnievin

i have a question - how does california plan to generate the electricity for the high speed rail

i have no idea.

how's the backwash?

694 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:11:15am

re: #691 Aceofwhat?

the data, not anecdotes, suggest that you will get better outcomes for the treatment of serious illnesses such as cancer in the US.

If you're rich, that is possibly correct.

I don't want to disclose the illness from which my family member suffers, but I happen to know that US families regularly go bankrupt if they have children affected by it.

695 vinnievin  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:11:45am

re: #693 Aceofwhat?

needs more salt

696 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:12:19am

re: #694 iossarian

If you're rich, that is possibly correct.

I don't want to disclose the illness from which my family member suffers, but I happen to know that US families regularly go bankrupt if they have children affected by it.

that may be. the question was not 'which is more affordable'. the question was which provided the better outcome, IIRC!

697 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:12:53am

re: #695 vinnievin

needs more salt

shhh...don't let a New Yorker hear you say that...they'll turn you in/

698 vinnievin  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:15:22am

re: #697 Aceofwhat?

I meant, Pepsico/Frito Lay's crystal-modified salt

[Link: www.popsci.com...]

699 iossarian  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:15:36am

re: #696 Aceofwhat?

that may be. the question was not 'which is more affordable'. the question was which provided the better outcome, IIRC!

OK, but then you have to qualify your question - "which has the better outcome, providing you can afford treatment?"

Anyway, my window of Lizard opportunity is coming to an end... So long folks.

700 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:16:32am

re: #699 iossarian

OK, but then you have to qualify your question - "which has the better outcome, providing you can afford treatment?"

Anyway, my window of Lizard opportunity is coming to an end... So long folks.

been fun debating with you - you're a good sport

701 vinnievin  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:18:43am

was there any posts here about the ridiculous overreaction by the european aviation governors about the volcano ash?

702 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:18:48am

re: #698 vinnievin

I meant, Pepsico/Frito Lay's crystal-modified salt

[Link: www.popsci.com...]

cool!

703 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:19:22am

re: #701 vinnievin

was there any posts here about the ridiculous overreaction by the european aviation governors about the volcano ash?

yep, a day or two ago. search and ye shall find...

704 vinnievin  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:24:39am

re: #703 Aceofwhat?

I see an article about jindal, i see one talking about the fragile economy, i mean one that talks about how many flights were unnecessarily grounded because of the un recommendation - and maybe even how the rail industry benefited? maybe i am missing it, searched volcano ash volcanic ash ... like to think i can work a search engine but i have been wrong once or twice

705 vinnievin  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:27:10am

something like this:

[Link: www.npr.org...]

[Link: www.npr.org...]

ps their sponsors include Siemens

706 vinnievin  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:32:41am

ok thanks for responding earlier, I am out - take care!

707 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:47:14am

re: #644 freetoken

Teddy was... shhh... a progressive. Indeed Glen Beck loves to crucify Teddy for that.

So was Bush apparently.

708 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:52:45am

re: #697 Aceofwhat?

shhh...don't let a New Yorker hear you say that...they'll turn you in/

How's our resident advocate for Big Salt doing today?

709 advocatusdiaboli  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:15:09pm

A woman walks into a bar and the bartender says "Hey where'd you get the pig?" ...

710 Sacred Plants  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:48:23pm

Not only does the guy write criminally stuffed sentences, he also talks as if his greatest dream really was a natural catastrophy.


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