In his commencement speech at the University of Michigan, Barack Obama voiced some very pointed criticism of the extremist rhetoric “starting to creep into the center of our discourse.”
1 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 2:25:20pm |
This was a great speech/commencement address.
Seriously, bookmark it.
| 2 |
RogueOne Sat, May 1, 2010 2:27:36pm |
He was so close to being correct. The hyperbole hasn't just been practiced by the fringes, it's been the center of political life since our founding. We may not like it, and we may think it isn't productive, but we can't pretend that only the "crazies" do it.
| 3 |
Reginald Perrin Sat, May 1, 2010 2:28:29pm |
re: #1 Stanley Sea
This was a great speech/commencement address.
Big deal, he was reading it off a teleprompter.
/ snark: off
| 4 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 2:29:13pm |
re: #3 Reginald Perrin
Big deal, he was reading it off a teleprompter.
/ snark: off
Preview of comments to come, I bet.
| 5 |
Charles Johnson Sat, May 1, 2010 2:29:22pm |
Full speech here:
[Link: www.freep.com...]
| 6 |
webevintage Sat, May 1, 2010 2:31:50pm |
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
Obama drew repeated cheers in Michigan Stadium from a friendly crowd that aides called the biggest audience of his presidency since the inauguration. The venue has a capacity of 106,201, and university officials distributed 80,000 tickets – before they ran out.
"Obama hoped the graduates hearing his words can avoid cynicism and brush off the overheated noise of politics. In fact, he said, they should seek out opposing views.
His advice: If you're a regular Glenn Beck listener, then check out the Huffington Post sometimes. If you read The New York Times editorial page the morning, then glance every now and then at The Wall Street Journal.
"It may make your blood boil. Your mind may not be changed. But the practice of listening to opposing views is essential for effective citizenship," he said."
He should have told them to join LGF.
;-)
| 7 |
jamesfirecat Sat, May 1, 2010 2:31:50pm |
"Starting to creep into the center.." That is the key problem isn't it? Well said Mr. President...
| 8 |
brookly red Sat, May 1, 2010 2:33:33pm |
re: #7 jamesfirecat
"Starting to creep into the center.." That is the key problem isn't it? Well said Mr. President...
not so much a creep as a march...
| 9 |
bratwurst Sat, May 1, 2010 2:33:33pm |
re: #2 RogueOne
He was so close to being correct. The hyperbole hasn't just been practiced by the fringes, it's been the center of political life since our founding. We may not like it, and we may think it isn't productive, but we can't pretend that only the "crazies" do it.
Um, which part of “starting to creep into the center of our discourse” is unclear to you?
| 10 |
RogueOne Sat, May 1, 2010 2:34:34pm |
re: #9 bratwurst
Um, which part of “starting to creep into the center of our discourse” is unclear to you?
The whole portion, what part of "angry political discourse has been part of the center since before our inception" is unclear to you?
| 11 |
jamesfirecat Sat, May 1, 2010 2:35:01pm |
re: #3 Reginald Perrin
Big deal, he was reading it off a teleprompter.
/ snark: off
I'd like to request starting a new meme?
Stealthprompter!
Like I said I see an SNL sketch where Barack Obama as agent 00O (Pronounced Double-O-O) is shown an array of ordinary devices by X (David Axelrod) that all look like perfectly ordinary household objects, but secretly contain teleprompters.
Teleprompter cufflinks, teleprompter tie, teleprompter wristwatch...
| 13 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 2:35:41pm |
Who is actually listening? Before commenting? Thank you.
| 15 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, May 1, 2010 2:36:24pm |
Thank you Mr. President...I'm over the name calling in politics...
We are not a Marxist state or Socialists.. As a matter of fact we vote in Indiana for the primaries Tuesday. Some socialist state.
/My last vote in Indiana...oh..And they aren't going to like how I'm voting in Nov. in Oklahoma...But I'm pretty sure nobody is going to drag me off in the middle of the night
| 16 |
webevintage Sat, May 1, 2010 2:37:06pm |
re: #13 Stanley Sea
Who is actually listening? Before commenting? Thank you.
I listened to it earlier today.
I also listen to his short message each Saturday they make me happy he is President.
I likes the kool aide.
| 17 |
RogueOne Sat, May 1, 2010 2:37:45pm |
re: #15 HoosierHoops
You vote in the primaries? I always skip them. I'm neither a repub or a dem so I figure it's only polite to leave it to the parties to choose who they want to run.
| 18 |
jamesfirecat Sat, May 1, 2010 2:37:59pm |
| 21 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 2:39:12pm |
re: #18 jamesfirecat
Bad time for a spelling error my friend.
It wasn't a spelling error. Get a clue.
| 24 |
shiplord kirel Sat, May 1, 2010 2:40:03pm |
re: #12 Ojoe
Obama's goddamn wright about this.
Wright disappeared under the bus two years ago, roadkill on the highway to the White House.
For all I know, he might join fellow ejectee Bill Ayers in cozying up to the Tea Parties.
| 25 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:40:24pm |
re: #9 bratwurst
Na he's just pushing the meme that 'both sides are just as bad!' Nothin' new to see here >
| 26 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, May 1, 2010 2:40:50pm |
re: #17 RogueOne
You vote in the primaries? I always skip them. I'm neither a repub or a dem so I figure it's only polite to leave it to the parties to choose who they want to run.
I vote every chance I'm afforded bro...Take care of Indiana for me when I'm gone...It's been a good 3 years here...
| 27 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 2:41:01pm |
Just one part.
Throwing around phrases like “socialists” and “Soviet-style takeover” and “fascist” and “right-wing nut” -- (laughter) -- that may grab headlines, but it also has the effect of comparing our government, our political opponents, to authoritarian, even murderous regimes.
Which it is not.
| 28 |
bratwurst Sat, May 1, 2010 2:41:14pm |
re: #12 Ojoe
Obama's goddamn wright about this.
Guilt by association is not dead...it just smells funny!
| 29 |
Ojoe Sat, May 1, 2010 2:41:30pm |
I think the Democrats, the Republicans, and politicians in general are responsible for the nasty tone these days, and yes Obama is a Politician with a capital P, but if he is going to say useful things, like in this case, it is OK by me, and welcome.
| 30 |
RogueOne Sat, May 1, 2010 2:41:45pm |
re: #25 windsagio
Na he's just pushing the meme that 'both sides are just as bad!' Nothin' new to see here >
If you're referring to me I would not say "both sides" but "everybody".
| 31 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, May 1, 2010 2:41:53pm |
| 32 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, May 1, 2010 2:41:56pm |
A funny typo in the transcript!
It’s always been a little less gentile during times of great change.
| 33 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sat, May 1, 2010 2:43:35pm |
I only caught parts of it on the news today, but it reminded me of why I joined LGF - back in the days when it was a lot more right-wing than it is now.
But I nonetheless found it to be sane right-wing and not a frothing wingnut site. And I am pleasantly surprised at the developments it has taken over the past two years.
| 34 |
jamesfirecat Sat, May 1, 2010 2:43:40pm |
re: #32 Floral Giraffe
A funny typo in the transcript!
Definitive proof that Obama is in bed with Iran and hates the Joos!
| 35 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 2:44:49pm |
re: #23 windsagio
Yer fellin' feisty again Walter >>
Just woke up from a nap. Got to go pull an 5-10 shift at the store in a bit. Have to deal with preoccupied people with change purses and 85 coupons... who spend all my "till" time at the cash register trying to find their car keys before they pay me. Grrrr... lady, give me that fucking purse.
| 36 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:44:54pm |
| 37 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:45:41pm |
re: #35 Walter L. Newton
One of the reasons I'd die if I had to do retail. Those people are bad enough when you're stuck behind them in line!
| 38 |
Ojoe Sat, May 1, 2010 2:46:00pm |
re: #36 windsagio
Well yes one group is. It swings. That's why I gravitate toward the Whigs.
| 39 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 2:46:07pm |
Some of todays pundits need to take a history class on politcal discourse. Granted this is an unprecedented level for the last 100 years of politcal name calling. Go back to the 1800s and look at what was written about politcal opponents. Pretty vile stuff.
| 40 |
RogueOne Sat, May 1, 2010 2:46:54pm |
re: #36 windsagio
In that you're mistaken, cuz' right now one group is substantially worse :p
I would expect a left partisan to view the current political situation in just that way. Don't worry, when the repubs take over I'm sure you'll feel differently.
| 41 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:47:24pm |
| 42 |
Ojoe Sat, May 1, 2010 2:47:29pm |
re: #39 pingjockey
In the run up to the Civil War, physical beatings were administered on the floor of Congress, between political opponents.
| 43 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:48:20pm |
re: #40 RogueOne
You should know I was raised republican and only really changed in the mid-90s. Their behavior in the last 20 years has been pushing me consistantly left :p
| 44 |
jamesfirecat Sat, May 1, 2010 2:48:32pm |
re: #42 Ojoe
In the run up to the Civil War, physical beatings were administered on the floor of Congress, between political opponents.
Which is why now all senators must relinquish their wooden canes upon entering the Senate Floor in exchange for Whiffle Canes....
At least according to "America the Book"....
| 45 |
RogueOne Sat, May 1, 2010 2:49:26pm |
re: #39 pingjockey
Some of todays pundits need to take a history class on politcal discourse. Granted this is an unprecedented level for the last 100 years of politcal name calling. Go back to the 1800s and look at what was written about politcal opponents. Pretty vile stuff.
Exactly but nothing going on now is unprecedented and it has never been better. This is the way it has always been. The left thinks it's out-of-control when there is a dem in the white house and the right thinks the same when it's a republican.
Someone name for me a time period in our history where we treated each other with the utmost respect in political matters? Show me a time period where we played nice, ever.
| 46 |
Ojoe Sat, May 1, 2010 2:49:31pm |
re: #41 windsagio
Wow, the first part is nice and the second rather poisonous.
| 47 |
brookly red Sat, May 1, 2010 2:49:40pm |
re: #43 windsagio
You should know I was raised republican and only really changed in the mid-90s. Their behavior in the last 20 years has been pushing me consistantly left :p
you should know I was raised democrat and only really changed in the mid-90s. Their behavior in the last 20 years has been pushing me consistantly right :p
| 48 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:50:04pm |
re: #39 pingjockey
Hows this, "It's certainly the worst it's been in many decades".
| 49 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 2:50:43pm |
re: #42 Ojoe
That's a fact. One congress critter damn near killed another by beating the rep with a cane.
| 50 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 2:51:31pm |
| 51 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 2:51:37pm |
re: #37 windsagio
One of the reasons I'd die if I had to do retail. Those people are bad enough when you're stuck behind them in line!
This is the biggest "role" I have ever played in my life. You know me, sort of, from this blog. I see almost every moment, every minute of life as something oddly humorous or as a snark.
Can you imagine ME, having to stand behind a cash register, smiling and being playful with myriads of different kinds of people?
Of course you can't. That's why I have to look at each shift like a performance, "I'm your friendly grocer and I am glad you are here.' Did you find every thing you are looking for... do you needs stamps... ice... wood pellets.... road kill.... Hi... no go ahead... I know, you have over 15 items but I won't tell anyone... (pick up the phone, feign using the intercom)... security... we have a customer with over 15 items in lane 8... here's your receipt... you don't need the receipt... ok... (looks at receipt)... too bad, you were the winner of the Mystery Million... (after folding up a really long receipt)... here... give this to your lawyer and he will explain it all to you..."
And life goes on...
| 52 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 2:51:52pm |
re: #48 windsagio
That'll work. IMO, it's the damn 24 hr news cycle. Have to have something on all the time.
| 53 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, May 1, 2010 2:53:35pm |
re: #52 pingjockey
And the politicians want the attention, so the rhetoric escalates.
| 54 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:53:46pm |
re: #52 pingjockey
That's part of it, but also look again at my 41. There was an organized attempt starting in the mid 90s to poison the dialogue.
That and the Southern Strategy have gotten us to where we are now.
| 55 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:54:09pm |
re: #51 Walter L. Newton
aah checkout patter >>
one of the reasons I like to use those self-serve thingies :D
| 56 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 2:55:52pm |
re: #55 windsagio
aah checkout patter >>
one of the reasons I like to use those self-serve thingies :D
Fuck you :)
I work U-scan too! "Sir... you forgot your receipt... don't want security body slamming you in the parking lot.."
See, I can work the side show or in the main tent.
| 57 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, May 1, 2010 2:55:54pm |
re: #39 pingjockey
Some of todays pundits need to take a history class on politcal discourse. Granted this is an unprecedented level for the last 100 years of politcal name calling. Go back to the 1800s and look at what was written about politcal opponents. Pretty vile stuff.
The Presidential campaign of 1828 (Jackson vs. JQ Adams) was probably the nastiest on record:
Jackson's marriage came in for attack: when he had married his wife Rachel, the couple had believed that she was divorced; however, the divorce was not yet finalized, so he had to remarry her once the legal papers were complete. In the Adams campaign's hands, this became a scandal. Charles Hammond in his Cincinnati Gazette asked: “Ought a convicted adulteress and her paramour husband to be placed in the highest offices of this free and Christian land?”
The notorious Coffin Handbills attacked Jackson for his court martial and execution of deserters, for his massacres of Indian villages, and for his habit of dueling.
Adams did not escape attack. It was charged that Adams, while serving as Minister to Russia, had surrendered an American servant girl to the appetites of the Czar. Adams was also accused of using public funds to buy gambling devices for the presidential residence; it turned out that these were a chess set and a pool table.
| 58 |
bratwurst Sat, May 1, 2010 2:56:10pm |
re: #47 brookly red
you should know I was raised democrat and only really changed in the mid-90s. Their behavior in the last 20 years has been pushing me consistantly right :p
So you guys...uh...cancel each other out or something.
| 59 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:56:27pm |
Another thought:
Isn't it scary that to find a worse time in American politics we need to go to the build-up to the Civil War?
| 60 |
brookly red Sat, May 1, 2010 2:56:44pm |
re: #58 bratwurst
So you guys...uh...cancel each other out or something.
only in national elections...
| 61 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:56:49pm |
re: #58 bratwurst
Except I'm right (or Wright) and he's wrong (or rong) ;)
| 62 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:57:18pm |
re: #60 brookly red
oh don't worry about that, I live in OR and WA (depending). My vote doesn't matter anyways >>
| 63 |
bratwurst Sat, May 1, 2010 2:57:37pm |
re: #60 brookly red
only in national elections...
Actually you both live in states where your presidential votes are next to meaningless.
| 64 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 2:57:58pm |
re: #55 windsagio
aah checkout patter >>
one of the reasons I like to use those self-serve thingies :D
Interesting choice of word "patter." By any chance are you a amateur (or professional) magician? That word is rarely used in the "dialog" sense anymore, except by magicians, the repartee is commonly called "patter."
| 65 |
brookly red Sat, May 1, 2010 2:58:06pm |
re: #63 bratwurst
Actually you both live in states where your presidential votes are next to meaningless.
damn skippy.
| 66 |
bratwurst Sat, May 1, 2010 2:58:52pm |
re: #65 brookly red
damn skippy.
Will you support going to a popular vote to rectify this situation?
| 67 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 2:58:57pm |
re: #57 Shiplord Kirel
That's the one I couldn't think of. Thanks.
| 68 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 2:59:08pm |
re: #64 Walter L. Newton
I pick up weird pieces of language really.
I think its from reading all those 19th and early 20th century books.
I think old carnies and patent medicine people used the term 'patter' too >>
| 69 |
brookly red Sat, May 1, 2010 3:00:34pm |
re: #66 bratwurst
Will you support going to a popular vote to rectify this situation?
I am tempted but probably not...
| 70 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 3:00:46pm |
re: #67 pingjockey
No seriously :P
There's something kinda weird in saying "Well there was a worse election 190 years ago!" as if it mitigates the awful situation we're facing now.
We need to deal with the situation (well as much as we can), or at least acknowledge how bad it is, not make excuses.
| 71 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, May 1, 2010 3:01:34pm |
WOW! Out there replies to an article on the President's speech!
Full blown ODS!
The maoist is the first offender.
Barry is king of the strawman argument.
Is this the community organizer who has spent his life bashing US local, state and federal governments?
| 72 |
RogueOne Sat, May 1, 2010 3:01:37pm |
Date night prep, cya people. Play nice, the president frowns upon your hyperbole which means you get coal in your tax return or something.
| 73 |
bratwurst Sat, May 1, 2010 3:02:32pm |
re: #69 brookly red
I am tempted but probably not...
Upding for honesty. In the meantime, I am not exactly disappointed your presidential vote is meaningless. ;)
| 74 |
brookly red Sat, May 1, 2010 3:02:54pm |
re: #70 windsagio
No seriously :P
There's something kinda weird in saying "Well there was a worse election 190 years ago!" as if it mitigates the awful situation we're facing now.
We need to deal with the situation (well as much as we can), or at least acknowledge how bad it is, not make excuses.
bad? it is wonderful... people are getting involved.
| 76 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 3:03:28pm |
re: #72 RogueOne
Date night prep, cya people. Play nice, the president frowns upon your hyperbole which means you get coal in your tax return or something.
You be NICE to your date, ok?
| 77 |
windsagio Sat, May 1, 2010 3:04:45pm |
| 78 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 3:05:09pm |
re: #68 windsagio
I pick up weird pieces of language really.
I think its from reading all those 19th and early 20th century books.
I think old carnies and patent medicine people used the term 'patter' too >>
Yes they did... all of that is one of my areas of expertise. In an earlier part of my life, I was a professional magician who produced shows for outdoor venues such as the State Fair of Texas and other entertainment centers. Did my share of hobnobbing with the fraternity. Speaking of "patent medicine", a good friend of mine developed a character name "Doc Snooker" for Six Flags parks back in the 60's. It was a medicine man magic show done on a typical medicine wagon.
I enjoyed those years writing and producing magic shows.
| 79 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 3:06:03pm |
re: #78 Walter L. Newton
Yes they did... all of that is one of my areas of expertise. In an earlier part of my life, I was a professional magician who produced shows for outdoor venues such as the State Fair of Texas and other entertainment centers. Did my share of hobnobbing with the fraternity. Speaking of "patent medicine", a good friend of mine developed a character name "Doc Snooker" for Six Flags parks back in the 60's. It was a medicine man magic show done on a typical medicine wagon.
I enjoyed those years writing and producing magic shows.
PIMF = 70's
| 80 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 3:06:05pm |
re: #70 windsagio
Oh, I agree. However, pols like sound bites, news orgs love sound bites, and pols like their money for air time. It is a damn vicious circle. I disagree with a ton of the Pres. policies, however, the man isn't a closet muslim, he's not a card carrying socialist. even though I feel some of our current policies are EU lite. But that's why we have elections. The rabid barking from both sides is asinine. I will admit some of the folks on the right have made me mad enough to bust heads. RWR was my man, and those fools have ran away from him and me.
| 81 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, May 1, 2010 3:07:40pm |
It was a fine speech with fine words.
But between the words and the substance lies the shadow.
For example, will there now be a chorus of objections the next time the Arizona state legislature are called fascists or Nazis?
| 83 |
brookly red Sat, May 1, 2010 3:08:38pm |
re: #81 Spare O'Lake
It was a fine speech with fine words.
But between the words and the substance lies the shadow.
For example, will there now be a chorus of objections the next time the Arizona state legislature are called fascists or Nazis?
not a snowman's chance in hell...
| 84 |
~Fianna Sat, May 1, 2010 3:10:17pm |
re: #72 RogueOne
Date night prep, cya people. Play nice, the president frowns upon your hyperbole which means you get coal in your tax return or something.
as long as it's clean coal.
| 85 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, May 1, 2010 3:10:31pm |
Political discourse was probably at its most polite during the Eisenhower and Kennedy administrations and would probably have reached a new height if JFK had survived to run for a second term.
Kennedy and the eventual Republican nominee, Barry Goldwater, were almost polar opposite politically, sharing only a mutual loathing of communism, but it happens that they were great friends personally, drinking and fishing buddies since their days together in the senate.
Goldwater has said that in the summer of 1963, when it started to seem possible that they would run against each other in '64, he and JFK hatched a plan for a campaign like no other. They would conduct a joint whistle-stop tour, traveling around the country on the same train and stopping to hold debates along the way. Since both were noted party animals, this might have been quite a trip.
That tragic day in Dallas cancelled the plan, and Goldwater ended up running against Lyndon Johnson, whom he regarded as a heavy-handed boor. It was a notably acrimonious campaign, probably the worst since 1932, and things have not improved since.
| 86 |
allegro Sat, May 1, 2010 3:10:33pm |
re: #81 Spare O'Lake
For example, will there now be a chorus of objections the next time the Arizona state legislature are called fascists or Nazis?
How about dumbass and racist?
| 87 |
Idle Drifter Sat, May 1, 2010 3:12:11pm |
re: #59 windsagio
Another thought:
Isn't it scary that to find a worse time in American politics we need to go to the build-up to the Civil War?
We haven't yet reached the level of political intensity of the 1960's. Though there is no lack of trying on some people's parts. Close yet so far away is preferred over rioting and bomb throwing. Dear God, please don't let it get that far.
| 88 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 3:12:53pm |
re: #86 allegro
It may be a misguided law, however, the Feds haven't done shit to control the border. The state reps felt they had to do something.
| 89 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 3:13:37pm |
re: #88 pingjockey
It may be a misguided law, however, the Feds haven't done shit to control the border. The state reps felt they had to do something.
Horrible argument.
| 90 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, May 1, 2010 3:14:21pm |
re: #86 allegro
How about dumbass and racist?
Do those characterizations promote civil discourse? Maybe for you they do.
| 91 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 3:14:43pm |
re: #89 Stanley Sea
Then what do you propose? Open borders? Let everybody in? No rules for gaining citizenship? What?
| 92 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 3:14:57pm |
re: #88 pingjockey
It may be a misguided law, however, the Feds haven't done shit to control the border. The state reps felt they had to do something.
How may "misguided laws" will we have to endure to blackmail the Federal Govt.? Again, horrible argument.
| 93 |
allegro Sat, May 1, 2010 3:15:28pm |
re: #90 Spare O'Lake
Do those characterizations promote civil discourse? Maybe for you they do.
If being uncivil is defined as calling out racism for what it is, then I will continue to be uncivil.
| 94 |
brookly red Sat, May 1, 2010 3:15:28pm |
re: #88 pingjockey
It may be a misguided law, however, the Feds haven't done shit to control the border. The state reps felt they had to do something.
as I said on another thread I don't think the law was intended to stick... just stir the pot.
| 95 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 3:15:52pm |
re: #91 pingjockey
Then what do you propose? Open borders? Let everybody in? No rules for gaining citizenship? What?
I propose something other than a misguided law. It's a deep issue that will not be solved with misguided laws.
| 96 |
bratwurst Sat, May 1, 2010 3:15:55pm |
| 97 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 3:16:00pm |
re: #89 Stanley Sea
Horrible argument.
That's why I was saying the other day, we need totally open borders. The states can't control it because they make draconian laws like this one, and the Feds have laws but they don't spend any time or money enforcing them, and in the long run, we are paying for all the problems.
Open the borders.
| 98 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, May 1, 2010 3:16:34pm |
re: #91 pingjockey
Then what do you propose? Open borders? Let everybody in? No rules for gaining citizenship? What?
Isn't that pretty close to the present situation on the ground?
| 99 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 3:17:08pm |
re: #94 brookly red
as I said on another thread I don't think the law was intended to stick... just stir the pot.
Real intelligent in the long run.../
| 100 |
reidr Sat, May 1, 2010 3:17:27pm |
re: #88 pingjockey
It may be a misguided law, however, the Feds haven't done shit to control the border. The state reps felt they had to do something.
Is that really true? I know they haven't build a giant wall, which some may want, but aren't there lots of border patrol agents, etc. patrolling?
| 101 |
Political Atheist Sat, May 1, 2010 3:18:06pm |
re: #71 Floral Giraffe
Oh man I liked that speech. He was funny and poignant.
| 102 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 3:18:14pm |
re: #92 Stanley Sea
I don't fucking know! The Feds refuse to take any positive steps to control the border. AZ has the 2nd highest kidnap rate IN THE WORLD. What do you propose? Just like the environmental NIMBYS, don't burn oil or coal, but get the energy from somewhere else. You ask where? and you get the shoulder shrug. Stop this/stop that, but no Goddamn solutions.
| 104 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, May 1, 2010 3:18:32pm |
re: #88 pingjockey
It may be a misguided law, however, the Feds haven't done shit to control the border. The state reps felt they had to do something.
hahah this is so not what they were thinking
it's politics, baby!It's not OH THE POOR ARIZONANS WE'RE UNDER SIEGE, that's nonsense. it's nativist politics at a time where nativist politics are on a massive rise.
| 106 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, May 1, 2010 3:18:35pm |
re: #93 allegro
If being uncivil is defined as calling out racism for what it is, then I will continue to be uncivil.
I take it then that you reject Obama's graduation message.
| 107 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, May 1, 2010 3:19:05pm |
re: #101 Rightwingconspirator
Oh man I liked that speech. He was funny and poignant.
How did it go today downtown? Were you eating fish tacos watching the world march by?
| 109 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 3:19:42pm |
re: #102 pingjockey
I don't fucking know! The Feds refuse to take any positive steps to control the border. AZ has the 2nd highest kidnap rate IN THE WORLD. What do you propose? Just like the environmental NIMBYS, don't burn oil or coal, but get the energy from somewhere else. You ask where? and you get the shoulder shrug. Stop this/stop that, but no Goddamn solutions.
I live in San Diego (you know, the city on the border?) I'm not freaking out. That's my nimby view.
| 110 |
reidr Sat, May 1, 2010 3:20:03pm |
re: #102 pingjockey
I don't fucking know! The Feds refuse to take any positive steps to control the border. AZ has the 2nd highest kidnap rate IN THE WORLD.
That's a pretty amazing stat. Where did you get it?
| 111 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, May 1, 2010 3:20:28pm |
re: #101 Rightwingconspirator
Oh man I liked that speech. He was funny and poignant.
C'mon! Spill it!
| 112 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 3:21:04pm |
re: #109 Stanley Sea
I lived there for 14 years. Fine don't freak out. A country that can't control its borders, controls nothing.
| 113 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 3:21:05pm |
re: #109 Stanley Sea
I live in San Diego (you know, the city on the border?) I'm not freaking out. That's my nimby view.
That doesn't count. There is no difference between San Diego and Mexico.
| 114 |
brookly red Sat, May 1, 2010 3:21:07pm |
re: #99 Stanley Sea
Real intelligent in the long run.../
if fact it is... it is forcing the discussion & you are now part of it. next.
| 115 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, May 1, 2010 3:21:43pm |
re: #63 bratwurst
Actually you both live in states where your presidential votes are next to meaningless.
It's so true :D
| 116 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, May 1, 2010 3:21:44pm |
re: #113 Walter L. Newton
That's not true, Walter.
| 117 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, May 1, 2010 3:21:57pm |
| 118 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 3:22:03pm |
re: #110 reidr
Out of my ass. Actually, a left wing loon, my SiL quoted it to me. Have no idea where she heard it.
| 119 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, May 1, 2010 3:22:17pm |
re: #110 reidr
That's a pretty amazing stat. Where did you get it?
| 120 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, May 1, 2010 3:22:29pm |
re: #109 Stanley Sea
I live in San Diego (you know, the city on the border?) I'm not freaking out. That's my nimby view.
SD? I hate driving I-5 when I'm there..You are still lucky...Try Indiana in the winter
| 121 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 3:22:43pm |
re: #113 Walter L. Newton
That doesn't count. There is no difference between San Diego and Mexico.
Ha ha! Come visit! Seriously, you are invited.
| 122 |
allegro Sat, May 1, 2010 3:23:02pm |
re: #106 Spare O'Lake
I take it then that you reject Obama's graduation message.
I take it you think racism is cool. (Not playing your little game.)
| 123 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, May 1, 2010 3:23:05pm |
re: #116 Floral Giraffe
That's not true, Walter.
How many comic conventions and internationally known video game developers are there in Mexico? :D
| 124 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 3:23:09pm |
re: #121 Stanley Sea
Ha ha! Come visit! Seriously, you are invited.
It was humor... very little I guess.
| 125 |
jaunte Sat, May 1, 2010 3:23:26pm |
re: #118 pingjockey
ABC News:
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
| 126 |
~Fianna Sat, May 1, 2010 3:23:27pm |
re: #102 pingjockey
I don't fucking know! The Feds refuse to take any positive steps to control the border. AZ has the 2nd highest kidnap rate IN THE WORLD. What do you propose? Just like the environmental NIMBYS, don't burn oil or coal, but get the energy from somewhere else. You ask where? and you get the shoulder shrug. Stop this/stop that, but no Goddamn solutions.
That's actually unsourceable:
Arizona state Sen. Russell Pearce this week told CNN's Tony Harris that half the murders in Phoenix are committed by unauthorized immigrants and that the city is the second in the world in kidnappings.
A CNN Fact Check found that the senator's claim about the murders in Phoenix cannot be proven, but he did have police statistics to back up his claims of the city's high number of kidnappings, although its exact standing in the world is not clear.
(from CNN
| 127 |
reidr Sat, May 1, 2010 3:23:41pm |
re: #118 pingjockey
Seems like a strange thing for a lefty-loon to trot out.... Anyway, I'm a bit skeptical about AZ being 2nd in the whole world.
| 128 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, May 1, 2010 3:23:56pm |
| 129 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 3:24:46pm |
re: #123 WindUpBird
How many comic conventions and internationally known video game developers are there in Mexico? :D
For years in this industry, whenever an African American character, hero or villain, was introduced - usually by *white* artists and writers - they got slapped with racist names that singled them out as Negroes. Now, my book, "White-Hatin' Coon," don't have none of that bullshit. The hero's name is Maleekwa, and he's a descendant from the black tribe that established the first society on the planet, while all you European motherfuckers were still hiding in caves and shit, all terrified of the sun. He's a strong role model that a young black reader can look up to. 'Cause I'm here to tell you, the chickens is coming home to roost, y'all. The black man's no longer gonna play the minstrel in the medium of comics and sci-fi fantasy. We keepin' it real, and we gonna get respect by any means necessary.
Always some white boy gotta invoke the holy trilogy. Bust this: Those movies are about how the white man keeps the brother man down, even in a galaxy far, far away. Check this shit: You got cracker farm boy Luke Skywalker, Nazi poster boy, blond hair, blue eyes. And then you got Darth Vader, the blackest brother in the galaxy, Nubian god!
| 131 |
brookly red Sat, May 1, 2010 3:24:58pm |
re: #122 allegro
I take it you think racism is cool. (Not playing your little game.)
when in doubt, cry racism... it's getting kinda old.
| 134 |
~Fianna Sat, May 1, 2010 3:25:22pm |
re: #128 WindUpBird
Mmmm...fuzzy statistics, I cuddle with them at night
are they warm and soft like kittens?
| 135 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, May 1, 2010 3:27:07pm |
This Arizona thing is gamesmanship, it's politics. Talking about it like it's real serious business, I just can't relate. Moving political pieces around the chessboard, bringing out the tribalism, bringing out the nativists.
I bet ya this law will be tied up in court before too long. It's a play.
| 136 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, May 1, 2010 3:27:37pm |
re: #124 Walter L. Newton
It was humor... very little I guess.
Now, if you'd said Santa Ana, I might have agreed with you.
//sorta
| 138 |
reidr Sat, May 1, 2010 3:27:54pm |
re: #119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Just saw this, thanks for the link. Years of video gaming still haven't given me the skills to keep up with all of these posts.
| 139 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, May 1, 2010 3:28:22pm |
re: #122 allegro
I take it you think racism is cool. (Not playing your little game.)
You are an illustration of the apparent futility in some quarters of Obama's bipartisan call for civil discussion of the the issues and a cessation of polarizing name-calling.
| 140 |
allegro Sat, May 1, 2010 3:28:29pm |
re: #131 brookly red
when in doubt, cry racism... it's getting kinda old.
I live in Texas and as a Caucasian I hear a lot of free talk about "those Meskins", and "them illegals", etc. I know where this Arizona law is coming from. Do you believe it isn't racist?
| 141 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 3:29:00pm |
re: #135 WindUpBird
Well don't tell all the business owners up here where I live it's all a play. They have to close business early tonite because they are closing the main street for a pro immigration reform rally.
| 142 |
Political Atheist Sat, May 1, 2010 3:29:17pm |
re: #105 Stanley Sea
Hi
Okay no pictures yet. In another window my copyright is being applied and the pictures re sized. I'll report as soon as I have the images up.
| 143 |
pharmmajor Sat, May 1, 2010 3:29:33pm |
While I too find the hostile, hateful rhetoric that's been coming from the far right disgusting, it seems that Charles is one of the many falling into a trap of labeling any criticism of government as "radical" and lumping us in with the far right.
| 144 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, May 1, 2010 3:29:53pm |
Out to work... leave all comments in the box hanging on my door.
| 145 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, May 1, 2010 3:29:53pm |
re: #129 Walter L. Newton
God dammit, I need to see that movie again, it's been way too long!
| 146 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 3:30:01pm |
re: #139 Spare O'Lake
You are an illustration of the apparent futility in some quarters of Obama's bipartisan call for civil discussion of the the issues and a cessation of polarizing name-calling.
Racism is racism. Obama in his speech did not iirc bring up racism.
When people want to deny racism as just another political point, I'm worried.
It is what it is. You may not believe it, but it is.
| 147 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 3:30:23pm |
re: #142 Rightwingconspirator
Hi
Okay no pictures yet. In another window my copyright is being applied and the pictures re sized. I'll report as soon as I have the images up.
Thank you! yay!
| 148 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, May 1, 2010 3:30:23pm |
re: #141 pingjockey
Well don't tell all the business owners up here where I live it's all a play. They have to close business early tonite because they are closing the main street for a pro immigration reform rally.
A play still affects people.
Just ask us fags ;-)
| 149 |
brookly red Sat, May 1, 2010 3:30:30pm |
re: #140 allegro
I live in Texas and as a Caucasian I hear a lot of free talk about "those Meskins", and "them illegals", etc. I know where this Arizona law is coming from. Do you believe it isn't racist?
look I don't know anything about that I am from NYC, I just want to mention the fact that you are quick to make the accusation...
| 150 |
reidr Sat, May 1, 2010 3:30:57pm |
re: #143 pharmmajor
When has he labelled reasonable criticism as radical? Seems like he calls out the really over-the-line stuff.
| 151 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 3:33:02pm |
re: #148 WindUpBird
Gotcha. My best friends son is gay and I've known them for 30 years and I wish someway somehow we could get the gay 'marriage' thing resolved. Drives me nuts. You can't force a church to marry people, but some sort of ceremony done by a judge should be just as binding.
| 152 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, May 1, 2010 3:33:07pm |
| 153 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, May 1, 2010 3:33:48pm |
re: #136 Floral Giraffe
Now, if you'd said Santa Ana, I might have agreed with you.
//sorta
Napa Valley has always had a large Hispanic community...The Valley has deep historical roots with them and there is a respect on both sides of this issue there...Besides..If anybody thinks white people are spending 12 hours a day picking grapes in the fields they are out of their fucking mind.. Next time you sip a 100 dollar bottle of fine wine..Thank a Mexican..
| 154 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, May 1, 2010 3:34:25pm |
re: #146 Stanley Sea
Racism is racism. Obama in his speech did not iirc bring up racism.
When people want to deny racism as just another political point, I'm worried.
It is what it is. You may not believe it, but it is.
You just don't get it. Read Obama's speech...he stated the inconvenient truth about the dangerous level of political discourse in America.
| 155 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, May 1, 2010 3:35:59pm |
re: #143 pharmmajor
While I too find the hostile, hateful rhetoric that's been coming from the far right disgusting, it seems that Charles is one of the many falling into a trap of labeling any criticism of government as "radical" and lumping us in with the far right.
Not true.
| 156 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 3:36:06pm |
re: #154 Spare O'Lake
You just don't get it. Read Obama's speech...he stated the inconvenient truth about the dangerous level of political discourse in America.
No, I get it dude.
Political discourse does not equal (or allow???) racism.
| 157 |
Linden Arden Sat, May 1, 2010 3:37:15pm |
Net Neutral for all packets?
....."Obama is taking over the Internet!"
Fin Reg to prevent another blowout?
....."Obama is taking over the banks!"
Sensible Health Insurance Regs?
....."Obama is taking over 1/6 of the economy!"
Carbon trading and limits?
....."Its a world plot to transfer wealth to the UN!"
| 159 |
Ojoe Sat, May 1, 2010 3:41:06pm |
re: #87 Idle Drifter
We haven't yet reached the level of political intensity of the 1960's.
The Weather Underground actually blew things up; fortunately it was their own bomb factory.
| 160 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, May 1, 2010 3:42:18pm |
re: #159 Ojoe
Last time I brought up the WU and the 1960s, people jumped down my throat for using "antiquated talking points".
| 161 |
Spare O'Lake Sat, May 1, 2010 3:42:33pm |
| 162 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, May 1, 2010 3:42:33pm |
re: #157 Linden Arden
Yeah! I don't like it either!
/
| 163 |
pingjockey Sat, May 1, 2010 3:43:23pm |
re: #159 Ojoe
You forgot the Pentagon and a couple of ROTC offices. But, hey, they were just little bombs. Nothing approaching McVey or what some other right wing loonies might do.
| 164 |
Ojoe Sat, May 1, 2010 3:44:30pm |
re: #97 Walter L. Newton
Walter that won't work, if only because people on the run cross borders, how many songs have you heard where someone on the run from the law goes down to Mexico. Even Jimi Hendrix had a song like that. So it operates in reverse too, and we get some real bad hombres.
| 166 |
Ojoe Sat, May 1, 2010 3:45:58pm |
| 167 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, May 1, 2010 3:46:55pm |
re: #153 HoosierHoops
I've never had a $100 bottle of wine.
But, the laborers do pick my strawberries!
| 170 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, May 1, 2010 3:50:27pm |
re: #167 Floral Giraffe
I've never had a $100 bottle of wine.
But, the laborers do pick my strawberries!
Visit Napa! They have free wine tastings.. It's perfect for poor college students and tourists!
This is going to hurt me to say this...
Congrads to your Lakers
| 172 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 3:54:46pm |
Racism does not equal unsavory political discourse.
| 173 |
allegro Sat, May 1, 2010 3:56:30pm |
re: #172 Stanley Sea
Spare is apparently unaware of the difference.
| 174 |
~Fianna Sat, May 1, 2010 3:57:45pm |
re: #170 HoosierHoops
Visit Napa! They have free wine tastings.. It's perfect for poor college students and tourists!
This is going to hurt me to say this...
Congrads to your Lakers
Is anyone in Napa still doing free tastings? Even in Paso, most places are charging a tasting fee (usually waived with a purchase)
| 175 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, May 1, 2010 4:01:11pm |
re: #174 ~Fianna
Is anyone in Napa still doing free tastings? Even in Paso, most places are charging a tasting fee (usually waived with a purchase)
You bet! It is wine capital of the US and maybe the world...I had a buddy that worked behind the bar at Sattui winery...Forget the tour pal..Just keep the wine flowing..
*wink*
| 177 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 4:03:27pm |
re: #175 HoosierHoops
Hoops! One of my newer clients is based in Napa. She's opening up a brick and mortar shop (always been internet before this)
So...I'm going to work in an on-site consult soon I hope.
I've only gone as a tourist, this would really be no different.
| 178 |
webevintage Sat, May 1, 2010 4:04:47pm |
re: #81 Spare O'Lake
It was a fine speech with fine words.
But between the words and the substance lies the shadow.
For example, will there now be a chorus of objections the next time the Arizona state legislature are called fascists or Nazis?
Of course that could be what he was talking about.
| 179 |
Political Atheist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:04:47pm |
re: #176 Stanley Sea
The May Day Report
It was a festival feeling on the street. Very calm for such a huge event. Party atmosphere, very little anger in the air. A few nutty or angry signs, a lot of flags. The better shots are up in my photo blog and the whole bunch are in my picasa web album.
Very curious to hear what you think.
| 180 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, May 1, 2010 4:06:49pm |
re: #177 Stanley Sea
Hoops! One of my newer clients is based in Napa. She's opening up a brick and mortar shop (always been internet before this)
So...I'm going to work in an on-site consult soon I hope.
I've only gone as a tourist, this would really be no different.
That is awesome! Is your client opening in the city or up valley?
I was raised outside of Yountville..Keep me up to date friend
| 181 |
Political Atheist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:06:53pm |
re: #179 Rightwingconspirator
Whoops PIMF my picasa link...
| 182 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, May 1, 2010 4:11:03pm |
| 183 |
Political Atheist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:12:09pm |
re: #182 HoosierHoops
Who knows. I have no explanation.
| 184 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, May 1, 2010 4:13:15pm |
re: #183 Rightwingconspirator
Who knows. I have no explanation.
Did you see any movie stars? Like Lindsey Lohan passed out or something?
| 185 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 4:23:52pm |
re: #179 Rightwingconspirator
The May Day Report
It was a festival feeling on the street. Very calm for such a huge event. Party atmosphere, very little anger in the air. A few nutty or angry signs, a lot of flags. The better shots are up in my photo blog and the whole bunch are in my picasa web album.Very curious to hear what you think.
Thank you thank you thank you for going and reporting. From your photos, I hope the first bunch were just the "fringe"? I saw the La Rouche, but wonder about the upside down American flags...hmmm.
The others were great!! And what I hoped to see, actually.
From what you just typed, with the "festival" feeling, I'll take it that it was a nice experience and not a hyped up anti-anything march.
Thank you RWC!!!
| 186 |
Political Atheist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:24:50pm |
re: #185 Stanley Sea
You are welcome. And yes it was a pro American, pro immigration event. A pleasure to attend really.
| 187 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 4:24:53pm |
re: #180 HoosierHoops
I think city? I'll have an address of the new place soon. I'll have to fill you in on her very very very successful, unusual business.
| 189 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:28:19pm |
re: #71 Floral Giraffe
WOW! Out there replies to an article on the President's speech!
Full blown ODS!
Is this the community organizer who has spent his life bashing US local, state and federal governments?
Wait, is it good or bad to bash the government? No one seems to be able to stay clear on this point. HELP!
| 190 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 4:28:53pm |
re: #181 Rightwingconspirator
Whoops PIMF my picasa link...
OK, checking out the Picasa. Excellent. KFI - KKK. I rarely listen, but they are pretty right wing?
| 191 |
Athens Runaway Sat, May 1, 2010 4:30:53pm |
re: #160 TheMatrix31
Last time I brought up the WU and the 1960s, people jumped down my throat for using "antiquated talking points".
Are you on acid? You're being monomaniacal. Quit drawing false equivalences.
/
| 192 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:32:18pm |
re: #100 reidr
Is that really true? I know they haven't build a giant wall, which some may want, but aren't there lots of border patrol agents, etc. patrolling?
From Wikipedia:
As of January 2010 the fence project has been completed from San Diego, California all the way to Yuma, Arizona. From there it continues into Texas and consists of a fence that is 21 feet tall and 6 feet deep in the ground, cemented in a 3 foot wide trench with 5000 psi concrete. There were no fatalities during construction, but there were 4 serious injuries with multiple aggressions against building crews, there was one reported shooting with no injury to a crew member in Mexicali region. All fence sections are south of the all American canals, and have access roads giving border guards the ability to reach any point easily, including the dunes area where a border agent was killed 3 years ago and is now sealed off.
My God, if only the Feds would do something!!!
| 193 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:32:47pm |
re: #102 pingjockey
I don't fucking know! The Feds refuse to take any positive steps to control the border. AZ has the 2nd highest kidnap rate IN THE WORLD. .
Jesus, evidence for that?
| 194 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, May 1, 2010 4:32:47pm |
re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist
From the rest of that site, it was a bad thing.
I had to leave, my eyes were starting to bleed.
They were using all kinds of ugly words...
| 195 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 4:33:23pm |
re: #190 Stanley Sea
The flag photo sequence is great! I'm still going through though.
| 196 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, May 1, 2010 4:33:33pm |
re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist
Keep reading, it gets posted a couple below.
;)
| 197 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:34:05pm |
re: #109 Stanley Sea
I live in San Diego (you know, the city on the border?) I'm not freaking out. That's my nimby view.
Stanley, don't try that. Californians are, by general consensus, not involved in this conversation. We get left off all the lists of border states. We haven't been authorities on illegal immigration since Prop 187. They liked us then...sigh.
///:)
| 198 |
reidr Sat, May 1, 2010 4:34:52pm |
re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist
Heh. Okay, so there really is a 20-foot tall wall. I clearly don't follow this issue very closely....
| 199 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:34:56pm |
| 200 |
Athens Runaway Sat, May 1, 2010 4:35:49pm |
re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist
Stanley, don't try that. Californians are, by general consensus, not involved in this conversation. We get left off all the lists of border states. We haven't been authorities on illegal immigration since Prop 187. They liked us then...sigh.
///:)
San Francisco seems quite eager to join the conversation.
Then again, you people are quite eager to openly defy federal immigration law and declare your cities "sanctuaries" for law-breakers illegal immigrants "undocumented Americans."
| 201 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:36:32pm |
re: #140 allegro
I live in Texas and as a Caucasian I hear a lot of free talk about "those Meskins", and "them illegals", etc. I know where this Arizona law is coming from. Do you believe it isn't racist?
Shhh. We're just from the OTHER border states. We don't know what it's LIKE in Arizona.
///
| 202 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:36:51pm |
re: #141 pingjockey
Well don't tell all the business owners up here where I live it's all a play. They have to close business early tonite because they are closing the main street for a pro immigration reform rally.
Oh my God! They're having a rally!!
| 203 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 4:37:58pm |
re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist
Stanley, don't try that. Californians are, by general consensus, not involved in this conversation. We get left off all the lists of border states. We haven't been authorities on illegal immigration since Prop 187. They liked us then...sigh.
///:)
Oh so true!! Hi SFZ!
| 205 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:39:07pm |
re: #160 TheMatrix31
Last time I brought up the WU and the 1960s, people jumped down my throat for using "antiquated talking points".
I do not recall the exact incident, but I can say that it has been a source of neverending amusement to me that when people say 'the left is more violent', they tend to bring up the Weather Underground, who have been defunct for 40 years, and who managed to kill precisely one poor soul who was not a member of their organization.
The left is pretty damn violent, all right.
| 206 |
Political Atheist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:39:50pm |
re: #190 Stanley Sea
Yes in general. KKK is way over the top of course.
| 207 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:40:55pm |
re: #186 Rightwingconspirator
You are welcome. And yes it was a pro American, pro immigration event. A pleasure to attend really.
Glad you had a nice time. Write and ask CHarles if he'd like to put some of the photos up for a thread.
| 208 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:42:10pm |
re: #198 reidr
Heh. Okay, so there really is a 20-foot tall wall. I clearly don't follow this issue very closely...
I'm just astonished that people keep saying that the Feds have done NOTHING. It's a pretty damn big building project, that.
| 209 |
Gus Sat, May 1, 2010 4:42:45pm |
re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist
Glad you had a nice time. Write and ask CHarles if he'd like to put some of the photos up for a thread.
Hey SFZ. Was just looking at some photos from the LATimes. Looked like a pretty good rally (or protest) to me. Lots of American flags.
[Link: www.latimes.com...]
Looked like a beautiful day too.
| 210 |
Athens Runaway Sat, May 1, 2010 4:44:16pm |
re: #204 Stanley Sea
clarity please?
San Fran is a sanctuary city, meaning that within city limits, an individual's immigration status is irrelevant. The city, for the last 2 decades or so, has refused to cooperate in any way with federal or state immigration enforcement, unless the Feds or state threaten to put the city on double-sekrit suspension.
San Fran, per official city policy, is also leading the charge for the economic boycott of Arizona. No SF employees are allowed to travel to the Fourth Reich Aryan-zona Arizona.
| 211 |
Cato the Elder Sat, May 1, 2010 4:44:40pm |
re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm just astonished that people keep saying that the Feds have done NOTHING. It's a pretty damn big building project, that.
The ones who are the most upset about immigration issues won't think the Feds have done anything until all the brown faces disappear from Main Street.
| 212 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:45:10pm |
re: #200 Athens Runaway
San Francisco seems quite eager to join the conversation.
Then again, you people are quite eager to openly defy federal immigration law and declare your cities "sanctuaries" for
law-breakersillegal immigrants"undocumented Americans."
I rest my case. I hear nothing but sobbing about how Arizona felt pushed to the wall, and had to do SOMETHING, but when Californians offer a perspective on what the situation is actually like on the ground, we get this crap.
Go piss and moan about New York, they've got elected officials going to Arizona to chain themselves to the border or something.
(What do you mean, 'you people'?)
| 213 |
Gus Sat, May 1, 2010 4:45:39pm |
re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist
Glad you had a nice time. Write and ask CHarles if he'd like to put some of the photos up for a thread.
Hey SFZ. Was just looking at some photos from the LATimes. Looked like a pretty good rally (or protest) to me. Lots of American flags.
[Link: www.latimes.com...]
Looked like a beautiful day too.
| 214 |
reidr Sat, May 1, 2010 4:46:35pm |
re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm just astonished that people keep saying that the Feds have done NOTHING. It's a pretty damn big building project, that.
It does seem like hyperbole, and yet it's rarely questioned. I figured if nothing else, they've hired a lot more border patrol people.
The idea that we have to build a giant wall is kind of depressing, though.
| 215 |
Cato the Elder Sat, May 1, 2010 4:46:38pm |
re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm just astonished that people keep saying that the Feds have done NOTHING. It's a pretty damn big building project, that.
The ones who are the most upset about immigration issues won't think the Feds have done anything until all the brown faces disappear from Main Street.
| 216 |
Athens Runaway Sat, May 1, 2010 4:47:13pm |
re: #204 Stanley Sea
clarity please?
San Fran is a sanctuary city, meaning that within city limits, an individual's immigration status is irrelevant. The city, for the last 2 decades or so, has refused to cooperate in any way with federal or state immigration enforcement, unless the Feds or state threaten to put the city on double-sekrit suspension.
San Fran, per official city policy, is also leading the charge for the economic boycott of Arizona. No SF employees are allowed to travel to the Fourth Reich Aryan-zona Arizona.
Saying that Californians are staying neutral on immigration policy is ridiculious. Cities across the state have been leading the pro-illegal immigration charge for upwards of 20 years.
| 217 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 4:47:14pm |
re: #200 Athens Runaway
San Francisco seems quite eager to join the conversation.
Then again, you people are quite eager to openly defy federal immigration law and declare your cities "sanctuaries" for
law-breakersillegal immigrants"undocumented Americans."
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. Thank you for the example.
| 218 |
Athens Runaway Sat, May 1, 2010 4:49:31pm |
re: #204 Stanley Sea
clarity please?
San Fran is a sanctuary city, meaning that within city limits, an individual's immigration status is irrelevant. The city, for the last 2 decades or so, has refused to cooperate in any way with federal or state immigration enforcement, unless the Feds or state threaten to put the city on double-sekrit suspension.
San Fran, per official city policy, is also leading the charge for the economic boycott of Arizona. No SF employees are allowed to travel to the Fourth Reich Aryan-zona Arizona.
Saying that Californians are staying neutral on immigration policy, as SFZ claimed, is ridiculous. Cities across the state have been leading the pro-illegal immigration charge for upwards of 20 years.
| 219 |
webevintage Sat, May 1, 2010 4:49:37pm |
If you are a praying person, please take a minute to send good thoughts the way for those of us in Arkansas.
There are tornado warnings popping up all around us.
Long, long night tonight.
| 220 |
reidr Sat, May 1, 2010 4:50:02pm |
re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm just astonished that people keep saying that the Feds have done NOTHING. It's a pretty damn big building project, that.
It does seem like hyperbole, and yet it's rarely questioned. I figured if nothing else, they've hired a lot more border patrol people.
The idea that we have to build a giant wall is kind of depressing, though.
| 221 |
Cato the Elder Sat, May 1, 2010 4:53:02pm |
re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm just astonished that people keep saying that the Feds have done NOTHING. It's a pretty damn big building project, that.
The ones who are the most upset about immigration issues won't think the Feds have done anything until all the brown faces disappear from Main Street.
| 222 |
Gus Sat, May 1, 2010 4:55:30pm |
I think the hamsters need some food and water. Server's stalling on my end.
| 223 |
brainiac-dumdum Sat, May 1, 2010 4:56:02pm |
If y'all listened to the whole speech you would see that he talks about the inflammatory rhetoric omnipresent in American politics since the beginning. And yes, he mentions the caning.
| 224 |
sagehen Sat, May 1, 2010 4:56:16pm |
semi-OT
The White House Correspondents' Dinner starts at 8, on C-Span.
I'm not sure who's the entertainment this year, but I really enjoyed John Hodgman last year.
| 225 |
reidr Sat, May 1, 2010 4:59:09pm |
re: #220 reidr
Pardon the double post. It just spun and spun, seeming like it'd never post it.
| 227 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, May 1, 2010 5:03:27pm |
re: #216 Athens Runaway
San Fran is a sanctuary city, meaning that within city limits, an individual's immigration status is irrelevant. The city, for the last 2 decades or so, has refused to cooperate in any way with federal or state immigration enforcement, unless the Feds or state threaten to put the city on double-sekrit suspension.
San Fran, per official city policy, is also leading the charge for the economic boycott of Arizona. No SF employees are allowed to travel to
the Fourth ReichAryan-zonaArizona.Saying that Californians are staying neutral on immigration policy is ridiculious. Cities across the state have been leading the pro-illegal immigration charge for upwards of 20 years.
I didn't say, ya eejit, that we were staying neutral. I said I was effing sick of being dismissed when we talked about what the situation is really like in the border states. After all the "OH, you don't know what Arizona is SUFFERING," telling someone from San Diego to butt out is sort of dumb.
Also, San Francisco does not actually represent the State of California, much as we wish we did.
| 228 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 5:06:51pm |
re: #224 sagehen
semi-OT
The White House Correspondents' Dinner starts at 8, on C-Span.
I'm not sure who's the entertainment this year, but I really enjoyed John Hodgman last year.
Leno I'm afraid.
| 229 |
Stanghazi Sat, May 1, 2010 5:08:02pm |
re: #227 SanFranciscoZionist
I didn't say, ya eejit, that we were staying neutral. I said I was effing sick of being dismissed when we talked about what the situation is really like in the border states. After all the "OH, you don't know what Arizona is SUFFERING," telling someone from San Diego to butt out is sort of dumb.
Also, San Francisco does not actually represent the State of California, much as we wish we did.
Yeah!
Yeah again!!
| 230 |
prairiefire Sat, May 1, 2010 5:11:34pm |
re: #94 brookly red
as I said on another thread I don't think the law was intended to stick... just stir the pot.
That is a lousy way to govern if that is the case. Republicans also have not been reading the census trends. Personally, I'm thrilled if they lose even more Latino support because of these actions.
| 231 |
prairiefire Sat, May 1, 2010 5:13:48pm |
re: #219 webevintage
If you are a praying person, please take a minute to send good thoughts the way for those of us in Arkansas.
There are tornado warnings popping up all around us.Long, long night tonight.
Oh dear, again tonight? I saw photos from last night. Take care.
| 232 |
kirkspencer Sat, May 1, 2010 5:30:25pm |
TANSTAAFL. You want someone to make sure the foods from China aren't full of lead and insecticides? You want someone on your side when the peanut butter has e coli? You want interstates that don't require new tolls every 30 miles or so? You want to know the computer's power supply you bought in New York will work in Seattle?
That's part of what government does. And if you want it, you have to pay for it. Taxes? TANSTAAFL.
| 233 |
lostlakehiker Sat, May 1, 2010 6:04:34pm |
Now, this requires us to agree on a certain set of facts to debate from. That’s why we need a vibrant and thriving news business that is separate from opinion makers and talking heads. (Applause.) That’s why we need an educated citizenry that values hard evidence and not just assertion. (Applause.) As Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously once said, “Everybody is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.” (Laughter.)
That's a good speech. But Moynihan himself got in a lot of trouble over bringing up some unpc facts.
| 235 |
Cato the Elder Sat, May 1, 2010 6:34:20pm |
My general impression is that people who call San Francisco "San Fran" have no business talking about that city, and should probably avoid visiting there, too.
| 237 |
reidr Sat, May 1, 2010 6:56:46pm |
| 238 |
Ojoe Sat, May 1, 2010 8:30:56pm |
re: #200 Athens Runaway
San Francisco seems quite eager to join the conversation.
Then again, you people are quite eager to openly defy federal immigration law and declare your cities "sanctuaries" for
law-breakersillegal immigrants"undocumented Americans."
If the rule of law is not upheld, chaos results.
Good night all.
| 239 |
Tigger2005 Sat, May 1, 2010 10:16:51pm |
I posted a link to this speech on Facebook. Almost immediately a friend of a friend of mine replied "Where's my dislike button?"
I asked her if she'd even read the speech. No reply yet.
| 240 |
astronmr20 Sat, May 1, 2010 11:12:02pm |
extremist rhetoric “starting to creep into the center of our discourse.”
Like "God Damn America?"
| 242 |
Vambo Sun, May 2, 2010 9:37:47am |
re: #240 astronmr20
Like "God Damn America?"
Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell were saying God Damn America before J. Wright, and they said it on national TV. Look it up, dumbass.
| 243 |
swamprat Sun, May 2, 2010 9:47:08am |
re: #242 Vambo
Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell were saying God Damn America before J. Wright, and they said it on national TV. Look it up, dumbass.
I looked it up.
You should look up what those two guys actually said. To be"damned" is to burn in hell forever.
Talking point is not applicable.
| 244 |
Vambo Sun, May 2, 2010 10:12:38am |
They made the exact same point, that America "deserved" what it got on 9/11 because of their foreign policy. Talking point is not applicable.
| 245 |
swamprat Sun, May 2, 2010 10:26:05am |
Seriously guy. Just because you read a talking point somewhere, does not make it a valid argument. Wright yelling GOD DAMN AMERICA is a little different than those two televangelists saying that god was going to, or had punished America. For one thing, when a person says "God Damn" they are requesting that the diety so named answer their request. That is why is is called "cussing". It is a curse. A curse is a request or prayer, if you will, for harm to come to another. That is a little different than having the opinion that you have managed to piss off a diety by yourself.
And this is the sort of rhetoric we should avoid.
But they are not equal styles. One style is proactively being an asshole, and the other style is passive-agressively being an asshole.
| 246 |
swamprat Sun, May 2, 2010 10:29:48am |
re: #245 swamprat
Now, if Wright had said "God Damned America" It would have then been the same.
| 247 |
ClaudeMonet Sun, May 2, 2010 5:06:59pm |
re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist
Is this the community organizer who has spent his life bashing US local, state and federal governments?
Wait, is it good or bad to bash the government? No one seems to be able to stay clear on this point. HELP!
When "we" are the government, it's bad to bash the government, uncivil, seditious, treasonous. When "they" are the government, it's good exercise of our civil rights, civil, loyal opposition, etc.
You can thank me later.
| 248 |
ClaudeMonet Sun, May 2, 2010 5:12:26pm |
re: #235 Cato the Elder
My general impression is that people who call San Francisco "San Fran" have no business talking about that city, and should probably avoid visiting there, too.
It could be worse. You could refer to the PRSF as "Frisco".
kirkspencer--Heinlein fan?
| 249 |
astronmr20 Sun, May 2, 2010 7:55:31pm |
re: #242 Vambo
Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell were saying God Damn America before J. Wright, and they said it on national TV. Look it up, dumbass.
They sure were.
How does that make it better for Wright, et all? Speaking of discourse, you need to tone yours down a little.
| 250 |
astronmr20 Sun, May 2, 2010 8:05:12pm |
re: #244 Vambo
They made the exact same point, that America "deserved" what it got on 9/11 because of their foreign policy. Talking point is not applicable.
Weathermen: "Days of rage," October 1969
Weathermen: Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, March, 1970
Weather Underground: "Declaration of War against the United States government." May, 1970.
Hey, I AGREE with Obama's remarks about discourse. But he sure didn't apply the same standard when launching his political career in Ayers' living room.
Just something to think about.
You know.. double-standards and all.
| 251 |
Synesius Tue, May 4, 2010 11:15:46pm |
Am I the only one who was troubled by the great, ecstatic roar of applause when he told the grads they would be covered by their parent's insurance until they were 26? How is this a good thing? Why would the Democrats want to promote such dependency and immaturity (he asked rhetorically)?
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
Abortions Outside Medical System Increased Sharply After Roe Fell, Study Finds The number of women using abortion pills to end their pregnancies on their own without the direct involvement of a U.S.-based medical provider rose sharply in the months after the Supreme Court eliminated a constitutional right to abortion, according ... Cheechako
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
