DOJ’s Car Bomb Graphic
US News • Views: 4,553
This illustration released by the Department of Justice shows the layout of the explosives inside the Nissan Pathfinder driven by suspect Faisal Shahzad:
341 comments
1 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 4, 2010 11:45:51am |
As Jon Stewart Said, so hard to find the actual facts in an important matter that we really need these days, WAY TOO EASY to find the facts we shouldn't have!
| 2 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 11:46:29am |
How far would the blast have reached if it had gone off?
| 3 |
Liberal Classic Tue, May 4, 2010 11:47:12am |
Vehicle on video looked like an Isuzu Rodeo.
| 5 |
darthstar Tue, May 4, 2010 11:47:21am |
I know it's a minor quibble of mine, but I never like seeing detailed graphics of attempted car-bomb setups. Some nutcase could see this and think, Oh, it's THAT easy? and the next thing you know there's a Prius full of bottle rockets parked next to a post office.
| 6 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 4, 2010 11:48:09am |
DOJ shouldn't be releasing this kind of "how to diagram" even if this one failed, it's not that diff from ones that work in Pakistan and Iraq.
| 7 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 4, 2010 11:48:30am |
re: #5 darthstar
I know it's a minor quibble of mine, but I never like seeing detailed graphics of attempted car-bomb setups. Some nutcase could see this and think, Oh, it's THAT easy? and the next thing you know there's a Prius full of bottle rockets parked next to a post office.
This is one of an infinite number of "How Not To..." diagrams.
| 8 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 4, 2010 11:48:46am |
Two clocks, an m-80 firework, 10 gallons of gas-o-lean, 250 pounds of s***, and sixty gallons of pro-pane... hell a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff!
(I don't know why, it just came to me...)
| 9 |
darthstar Tue, May 4, 2010 11:48:47am |
re: #2 MandyManners
How far would the blast have reached if it had gone off?
They say the fertilizer wasn't set up in a way to be explosive, and that the propane tanks weren't a major explosive hazard, either. The two gas cans could have ripped the car in half.
It wouldn't have made a crater and taken the front off of the Marriott.
| 10 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 11:50:58am |
re: #9 darthstar
They say the fertilizer wasn't set up in a way to be explosive, and that the propane tanks weren't a major explosive hazard, either. The two gas cans could have ripped the car in half.
It wouldn't have made a crater and taken the front off of the Marriott.
Didn't how splodey-dopes useta' pour rat poison (blood thinner) on the ball bearings in their vests?
| 11 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 4, 2010 11:51:11am |
I don't really see a problem with releasing this graphic -- this cat was out of the bag long ago on the Internet. People who want to make bombs can find much better information on it than a DOJ graphic.
| 12 |
Kragar Tue, May 4, 2010 11:51:44am |
re: #9 darthstar
They say the fertilizer wasn't set up in a way to be explosive, and that the propane tanks weren't a major explosive hazard, either. The two gas cans could have ripped the car in half.
It wouldn't have made a crater and taken the front off of the Marriott.
Wouldn't want it to have gone off if I was anywhere on the same block either, mind you.
| 13 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, May 4, 2010 11:52:18am |
re: #1 jamesfirecat
As Jon Stewart Said, so hard to find the actual facts in an important matter that we really need these days, WAY TOO EASY to find the facts we shouldn't have!
That Genie has been out of the bottle for some time. If you need a DOJ graphic to design your bomb, you aren't looking in the right places online.
| 14 |
lawhawk Tue, May 4, 2010 11:52:44am |
re: #9 darthstar
Probably would have caused a pretty significant fireball, causing injuries to pedestrians in and around the vehicle; additional injuries from possible broken/flying glass from nearby buildings, but no building collapses or infrastructure failures.
| 15 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 11:52:54am |
Shoulda, Coulda Woulda...
So now will the President please replace Janet Napolitano as head of Homeland Security?
How much more convincing evidence must there be that she is not the man... or woman... for the job?
[Link: wcbstv.com...]
| 16 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 4, 2010 11:53:14am |
re: #10 MandyManners
Didn't how splodey-dopes useta' pour rat poison (blood thinner) on the ball bearings in their vests?
Things I already knew about from Burn Notice # 32....
| 17 |
Kragar Tue, May 4, 2010 11:53:39am |
re: #11 Charles
I don't really see a problem with releasing this graphic -- this cat was out of the bag long ago on the Internet. People who want to make bombs can find much better information on it than a DOJ graphic.
Basic bomb set up isn't really that hard to picture. The devil is in the details.
| 18 |
Liberal Classic Tue, May 4, 2010 11:55:12am |
re: #2 MandyManners
I'm far from an expert, but I would call this more of an incendiary than an explosive. Liquid propane and gunpowder have much less specific energy than high explosive chemicals. If the propane tanks would have ignited, it would have made a big fireball and blown out some windows nearby. Since there was no high explosive material, I don't think it would have left a crater in concrete and the pressure wave would not have been as great as IEDs encountered in Iraq and Afghanistan that are made from motars and artillery shells. The blast could have killed someone in close proximity, and left people nearby badly burned. I do not mean to minimize the magnitude of the crime.
| 19 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 11:56:27am |
| 20 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 11:57:04am |
re: #18 Liberal Classic
I'm far from an expert, but I would call this more of an incendiary than an explosive. Liquid propane and gunpowder have much less specific energy than high explosive chemicals. If the propane tanks would have ignited, it would have made a big fireball and blown out some windows nearby. Since there was no high explosive material, I don't think it would have left a crater in concrete and the pressure wave would not have been as great as IEDs encountered in Iraq and Afghanistan that are made from motars and artillery shells. The blast could have killed someone in close proximity, and left people nearby badly burned. I do not mean to minimize the magnitude of the crime.
What if the pin-head had used the correct fertilizer?
| 21 |
Obdicut Tue, May 4, 2010 11:57:11am |
re: #15 tradewind
Did 9/11 prove that Bush wasn't the man for the job?
| 22 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 4, 2010 11:57:54am |
re: #19 MandyManners
That was in an episode?
Sort of.
It was mentioned that this REALLY EVIL IRA bomber used rat poison as part of the mix for his bombs to make sure that his victims bled out and suffered as much as possible.
| 23 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 4, 2010 11:57:56am |
re: #15 tradewind
Shoulda, Coulda Woulda...
So now will the President please replace Janet Napolitano as head of Homeland Security?
How much more convincing evidence must there be that she is not the man... or woman... for the job?
[Link: wcbstv.com...]
I'm not finding anything in your link to back your criticism of Napolitano.
| 24 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 11:58:41am |
re: #21 Obdicut
Given that there were no further successful attacks in eight years on American soil, and Obama has already seen two ( Major Hassan and this one) in barely a year, I don't really think so.
But hang on to that BDS. It'll be worth something someday, when it's really aged and ripe.
| 25 |
cliffster Tue, May 4, 2010 11:59:32am |
re: #21 Obdicut
Did 9/11 prove that Bush wasn't the man for the job?
Really? You think that's a valid analogy?
| 26 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, May 4, 2010 12:00:10pm |
re: #2 MandyManners
If the propane cans really split and dispersed the gas before it went off as in fuel air explosion-which would set off the rest-My utterly amateur guess would be a lethal radius out to 100 yards or so. Huge in human terms
| 27 |
Obdicut Tue, May 4, 2010 12:00:40pm |
re: #24 tradewind
I'm sorry, that didn't really approach an answer to my question.
You are taking this incident-- that harmed no one in any way, where the perpetrator was caught-- and saying it shows that Napolitano is unfit for her job.
That is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with BDS. I have no particular problem with Bush's immediate response to 9/11; it was an excession.
| 28 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 4, 2010 12:00:48pm |
re: #24 tradewind
Given that there were no further successful attacks in eight years on American soil, and Obama has already seen two ( Major Hassan and this one) in barely a year, I don't really think so.
But hang on to that BDS. It'll be worth something someday, when it's really aged and ripe.
ANTHRAX!
Do you remember the ANTHRAX?
| 29 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 4, 2010 12:00:51pm |
re: #24 tradewind
Given that there were no further successful attacks in eight years on American soil, and Obama has already seen two ( Major Hassan and this one) in barely a year, I don't really think so.
But hang on to that BDS. It'll be worth something someday, when it's really aged and ripe.
You just called this a successful attack.
| 30 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, May 4, 2010 12:00:52pm |
re: #18 Liberal Classic
Look up thermobaric or fuel air explosive-propane is key.
| 31 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:01:07pm |
re: #23 wrenchwench
Yeah, there's this problem... she ( her department) didn't find anything that would put Faisal on the watch list, either.
But PIMF.... I meant this one to be posted down a thread. So sorry to interrupt.
| 32 |
Obdicut Tue, May 4, 2010 12:01:14pm |
re: #25 cliffster
I think it's a valid demonstration of the absurdity of saying that any particular event can show that Napolitano is unfit for the job.
| 33 |
darthstar Tue, May 4, 2010 12:01:40pm |
re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Basic bomb set up isn't really that hard to picture. The devil is in the details.
I remember when I did a search on that PETN crap once to understand what was in it and found the recipe along with step-by-step instructions (22 grams of high explosive you can make in a kitchen - enough to blow the doors off a Hummer).
I'm a homebrewer, and PETN is easier to make.
| 34 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:01:49pm |
re: #22 jamesfirecat
Sort of.
It was mentioned that this REALLY EVIL IRA bomber used rat poison as part of the mix for his bombs to make sure that his victims bled out and suffered as much as possible.
All bombers are evil.
| 35 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 12:01:56pm |
re: #28 jamesfirecat
ANTHRAX!
Do you remember the ANTHRAX?
LAX ticket counter?
Seriously, I feel like all this discussion has happened before and will happen again...
| 36 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:02:00pm |
re: #27 Obdicut
The fact that no one was harmed is sheer serendipity.
Not my idea...see Ray Kelly's quote re what could have happened.
| 37 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 4, 2010 12:02:23pm |
| 38 |
Kragar Tue, May 4, 2010 12:02:36pm |
| 39 |
Liberal Classic Tue, May 4, 2010 12:02:39pm |
re: #20 MandyManners
ANFO is considered a high explosive, so sure. It could have been worse.
| 40 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, May 4, 2010 12:03:01pm |
Simply? I'm glad the guy's an inept douche-bag.
| 41 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 12:03:25pm |
re: #24 tradewind
Given that there were no further successful attacks in eight years on American soil, and Obama has already seen two ( Major Hassan and this one) in barely a year, I don't really think so.
But hang on to that BDS. It'll be worth something someday, when it's really aged and ripe.
You're forgetting the guy that crashed the plane into the IRS building. That was a terrorist attack.
Oh, and the guy who shot up the Holocaust Museum. Terrorist attack.
Pentagon shooting? Terrorist attack.
Why do you ignore those, I wonder...
| 42 |
cliffster Tue, May 4, 2010 12:03:25pm |
re: #32 Obdicut
I think it's a valid demonstration of the absurdity of saying that any particular event can show that Napolitano is unfit for the job.
I'm not going to disagree with you on the bit about any particular event. But given the amount of focus there was on terrorism on 9/10/2001, as opposed to now, I think one is wise to avoid the "oh yeah, what about 9/11??" argument.
| 43 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:03:28pm |
re: #39 Liberal Classic
ANFO is considered a high explosive, so sure. It could have been worse.
I'll refrain from saying something about the Religion of Pieces.
| 44 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, May 4, 2010 12:03:35pm |
OT
Witchhunt!
State attorney general demands ex-professor's files from University of Virginia
Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli II is demanding that the University of Virginia turn over a broad range of documents from a former professor to determine whether he defrauded taxpayers as he sought grants for global warming research.The civil investigative demand asks for all data and materials presented by former professor Michael Mann when he applied for five research grants from the university. It also gives the school until May 27 to produce all correspondence or e-mails between Mann and 39 other scientists since 1999.
The actions by Cuccinelli (R) -- who has sued the federal government over its regulation of greenhouse gases and has become a leading national voice in alleging that scientists have skewed data to show evidence the Earth is warming -- were cheered by those on the right, who have long targeted Mann as a leading proponent of the theory.
| 45 |
webevintage Tue, May 4, 2010 12:05:17pm |
How many terror plots have been foiled in the last few years?
| 47 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 4, 2010 12:05:41pm |
re: #34 MandyManners
All bombers are evil.
Well yeah it's just its Burn Notice, so they needed to make it clear that this Ex-IRA guy was really evil as opposed to Micheal "quirky" Ex-IRA girlfriend who we all cheer for when she plants bombs under people's cars when Micheal tells her that he wants to be able to disable it at any moment.
| 48 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 4, 2010 12:05:58pm |
re: #11 Charles
I don't really see a problem with releasing this graphic -- this cat was out of the bag long ago on the Internet. People who want to make bombs can find much better information on it than a DOJ graphic.
While I agree that the cat was out of the bag for anyone determined to be terrorist, and that there are better blueprints, I don't want our government releasing this stuff. It might encourage a crazy person who could just get lucky by happenstance.
| 49 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, May 4, 2010 12:06:18pm |
re: #45 webevintage
How many terror plots have been foiled in the last few years?
I think the official number is "bunches".
| 50 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 12:06:18pm |
re: #11 Charles
I don't really see a problem with releasing this graphic -- this cat was out of the bag long ago on the Internet. People who want to make bombs can find much better information on it than a DOJ graphic.
apparently not, in this case. Thank god this "terrorist mastermind" doesn't understand google.
| 51 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:06:29pm |
re: #32 Obdicut
True, there have been several.
Why she was selected in the first place is a mystery, given that the state she was charged with securing is..... not.
| 52 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:06:45pm |
re: #45 webevintage
How many terror plots have been foiled in the last few years?
Our investigators have to succeed every time. The terrorists have to succeed only once.
| 53 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 4, 2010 12:07:05pm |
Ridiculous to say that somehow homeland security failed.
They stopped and arrested this guy. Success!
| 54 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:07:13pm |
re: #47 jamesfirecat
Well yeah it's just its Burn Notice, so they needed to make it clear that this Ex-IRA guy was really evil as opposed to Micheal "quirky" Ex-IRA girlfriend who we all cheer for when she plants bombs under people's cars when Micheal tells her that he wants to be able to disable it at any moment.
Yeah, Fiona is a real peach.
| 55 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 12:07:26pm |
re: #45 webevintage
How many terror plots have been foiled in the last few years?
probably like 5-10 that we've heard of. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I'd like to think that there are many foiled without gracing the front pages of NYTimes.
| 56 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:08:31pm |
re: #41 JasonA
That was a terrorist attack.
Yes, and the nutjob had the backing of a well-organized jihadi group too. They're always leaving messages on websites about how they will bring death to America.//
| 57 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, May 4, 2010 12:08:34pm |
re: #44 Shiplord Kirel
In case of doubt about where Kookonelly is coming from, he also had a bare breast on the Virginia State Seal covered up on his staff's lapel pins, and has ruled that police chaplains may invoke Jesus at public events.
| 58 |
William of Orange Tue, May 4, 2010 12:09:11pm |
Major incident in the Netherlands!
Today is May 4th, remembrance day for the ones who have fallen in WW2 and have fallen since in conflict. The main event was at Dam square. At precisely 20:00 hours local time everyone is silent for two minutes.
After one and a half minute something happened. I saw the thing unfold on TV. A shout was heard in the crowd and moment later panic erupted. A stampede!
Her Majesty Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands was rushed away moments later. After some words from the master of ceremony, who said someone had a stroke, things dumbed down and the ceremony was started again with the playing of the National Anthem.
Just now I heard the incident was somewhat different. Someone intentionally disrupted the ceremony. His motives are unknown at the moment but the attack last year on April 30th is still fresh in our minds. There is still no word if this person had a terrorist motive but he really reached his goal; creating panic...
| 59 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 4, 2010 12:09:58pm |
re: #26 Rightwingconspirator
If the propane cans really split and dispersed the gas before it went off as in fuel air explosion-which would set off the rest-My utterly amateur guess would be a lethal radius out to 100 yards or so. Huge in human terms
The energy is there, but FAE is very, very, hard to do (otherwise half the delinquents in my neighborhood would have done it). Most non-military stuff will end up just like this clown's.
| 60 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:10:15pm |
re: #53 Stanley Sea
He boarded the freaking airplane.
Seconds, maybe minutes, literally, to spare, and he would have been on his way to Dubai.
(But I'm sure that we'd have scrambled some fighters to bring the passenger jet back).
| 61 |
garhighway Tue, May 4, 2010 12:10:27pm |
re: #51 tradewind
True, there have been several.
Why she was selected in the first place is a mystery, given that the state she was charged with securing is... not.
I hate it when states become unsecured. Towing them back to their original location and bolting them back down is a pain.
| 62 |
William of Orange Tue, May 4, 2010 12:11:07pm |
Forgot to mention that the man who was the cause of this panic was caught. Primeminister Balkenende said a briefcase was found.
| 63 |
lawhawk Tue, May 4, 2010 12:11:11pm |
re: #53 Stanley Sea
To play devil's advocate:
DHS failed because they didn't prevent the attack from being launched. Only quick thinking witnesses, the NYPD and FDNY putting out the fires and the failure of a properly designed explosive/device prevented a far more serious situation. Homeland security didn't prevent Shahzad from entering the country from Pakistan, nor did it stop him from assembling the weapon or delivering it to Times Square.
It did, however, help facilitate the capture of Shahzad trying to leave the country. So, in that respect, it was successful doing what law enforcement does best - investigate an activity and bring the perps to justice.
| 64 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:11:16pm |
re: #52 MandyManners
And in the case of Ft. Hood, we're already down one.
Not that anyone talks of that.
| 65 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 4, 2010 12:11:17pm |
re: #53 Stanley Sea
Ridiculous to say that somehow homeland security failed.
They stopped and arrested this guy. Success!
They also made him rely on unworkable but easy-to-get materials.
| 66 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 4, 2010 12:11:21pm |
OT - Go Arizona!
PHOENIX -- The Phoenix Suns will wear "Los Suns" on their jerseys Wednesday for Game 2 of the Western Conference semifinals, owner Robert Sarver said, "to honor our Latino community and the diversity of our league, the state of Arizona and our nation."
[Link: sports.espn.go.com...]
| 67 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, May 4, 2010 12:11:23pm |
Three guys are going to the guillotine. First guy is laid down, blade is released; stops halfway down. The Judge claims him "Not guilty! The hand of God has saved him." The man is released.
Second guy is laid down, blade is released; stops halfway down. The Judge again, says, "Not Guilty! The hand of God has saved him!"
Third guy is laid down, turns to the Judge and says, "Sir, if you adjust the tension on the..."
Let's keep discussions of what might have made this work to ourselves...
| 68 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 4, 2010 12:11:28pm |
re: #60 tradewind
He boarded the freaking airplane.
Seconds, maybe minutes, literally, to spare, and he would have been on his way to Dubai.
(But I'm sure that we'd have scrambled some fighters to bring the passenger jet back).
You didn't read your own link.
Based on what law enforcement sources told CBS 2, it's now clear that the arrest of 30-year old Faisal Shahzad on board the departing jet was the culmination of an elaborate, highly controlled sting operation.
| 69 |
Obdicut Tue, May 4, 2010 12:11:36pm |
re: #51 tradewind
It's really odious of you to politicize this attack.
| 71 |
webevintage Tue, May 4, 2010 12:11:45pm |
re: #55 EastSider
probably like 5-10 that we've heard of. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I'd like to think that there are many foiled without gracing the front pages of NYTimes.
That is probably true.
I was just wondering in light of the "OMG!!11!!!!That Janet lady is worst EVAR!!!!".....
How do people in Israel act when a bomber is successful? Or the British when a IRA bomber ended up blowing people up.
Do they automatically assume that the people in charge suck or are they glad that so many are caught and grieve that the reality of life is that it sucks and bad things happen and you can't ever truly be safe?
| 72 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, May 4, 2010 12:11:46pm |
| 73 |
engineer cat Tue, May 4, 2010 12:12:13pm |
re: #45 webevintage
How many terror plots have been foiled in the last few years?
people seem to think that they know, but i have yet to see documentation on incidents that weren't foiled by the underpants-level stupidity of the would-be terrorists themselves
| 74 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:12:38pm |
re: #68 wrenchwench
Then perhaps Homeland Sec. may want to upgrade its capabilities to include ' capable of detecting sneaky sting ops by evildoers'.//
| 75 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, May 4, 2010 12:12:51pm |
re: #59 Decatur Deb
I worry about that because some guys in Iraq are very good at IED's.
| 76 |
William of Orange Tue, May 4, 2010 12:12:51pm |
First footage of the incident!!
| 78 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 4, 2010 12:13:23pm |
re: #60 tradewind
He boarded the freaking airplane.
Seconds, maybe minutes, literally, to spare, and he would have been on his way to Dubai.
(But I'm sure that we'd have scrambled some fighters to bring the passenger jet back).
Read Lawhawk's post above. The pilots were notified not to take off. You have no idea what the police and FBI had planned. They got the guy. He didn't take off. Now, you can suppose what could have happened all day, but it really is a waste, and not a reason to call for Napalitano's resignation.
| 79 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 4, 2010 12:13:32pm |
re: #74 tradewind
Then perhaps Homeland Sec. may want to upgrade its capabilities to include ' capable of detecting sneaky sting ops by evildoers'.//
Let me know when you've read your own link.
| 80 |
webevintage Tue, May 4, 2010 12:14:05pm |
re: #60 tradewind
He boarded the freaking airplane.
Seconds, maybe minutes, literally, to spare, and he would have been on his way to Dubai.
(But I'm sure that we'd have scrambled some fighters to bring the passenger jet back).
sigh.
They knew where the dude was.
They were tracking him.
He got on the plane.
The plane was turned back and he was arrested along with 2 other people.
EVEN if he had made it to Dubai he would have been arrested as he got off the plane and sent back to us.
| 81 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, May 4, 2010 12:14:12pm |
re: #75 Rightwingconspirator
I worry about that because some guys in Iraq are very good at IED's.
Not as many as there used to be.......
| 82 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 4, 2010 12:14:45pm |
re: #77 garhighway
Facts.
So inconvenient.
You'd think if one links to an article, they've at least skimmed it. especially if that person makes assertions supposedly based on it.
| 83 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:14:48pm |
re: #64 tradewind
And in the case of Ft. Hood, we're already down one.
Not that anyone talks of that.
Ssshhhh.
| 84 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:15:01pm |
re: #71 webevintage
Somehow I don't really think the US wants to adopt the fatalistic, hair -trigger - hyper - alert -living on the edge reality of daily life that Israel has been forced to adopt.
| 85 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, May 4, 2010 12:15:04pm |
re: #61 garhighway
I hate it when states become unsecured. Towing them back to their original location and bolting them back down is a pain.
That's what superglue is for.
| 86 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 4, 2010 12:15:21pm |
re: #75 Rightwingconspirator
I worry about that because some guys in Iraq are very good at IED's.
Yeah--but they have a staggering amount of left-over military grade, and a route to a friendly supply/cadre "helper".
| 87 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:15:43pm |
re: #78 Stanley Sea
Oh, I've called for it before. This is just aggravated evidence.
| 88 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 4, 2010 12:15:51pm |
re: #75 Rightwingconspirator
I worry about that because some guys in Iraq are very good at IED's.
//We're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here!
| 89 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 12:16:13pm |
re: #63 lawhawk
To play devil's advocate:
DHS failed because they didn't prevent the attack from being launched. Only quick thinking witnesses, the NYPD and FDNY putting out the fires and the failure of a properly designed explosive/device prevented a far more serious situation. Homeland security didn't prevent Shahzad from entering the country from Pakistan, nor did it stop him from assembling the weapon or delivering it to Times Square.It did, however, help facilitate the capture of Shahzad trying to leave the country. So, in that respect, it was successful doing what law enforcement does best - investigate an activity and bring the perps to justice.
That's the problem with security. There's only so much you can do in a free society. Tilt the balance too far, and you've reduced freedoms to the extent that the "terrorists win" by default.
That said, the point above about this guy having limited access to legitimate weapons is a good point. I can see how what happened here may have slipped through as "not a credible threat."
Also, in terms of getting into the country, he was an American citizen, which certainly makes it easier.
But yeah, you make a good devil's advocate point.
| 90 |
webevintage Tue, May 4, 2010 12:16:36pm |
re: #84 tradewind
Somehow I don't really think the US wants to adopt the fatalistic, hair -trigger - hyper - alert -living on the edge reality of daily life that Israel has been forced to adopt.
Of course not...but that was not my point and really anyone who thinks we can ever be really safe is living in a world not based in reality.
| 91 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:16:39pm |
| 92 |
cliffster Tue, May 4, 2010 12:16:44pm |
re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Three guys are going to the guillotine. First guy is laid down, blade is released; stops halfway down. The Judge claims him "Not guilty! The hand of God has saved him." The man is released.
Second guy is laid down, blade is released; stops halfway down. The Judge again, says, "Not Guilty! The hand of God has saved him!"
Third guy is laid down, turns to the Judge and says, "Sir, if you adjust the tension on the..."Let's keep discussions of what might have made this work to ourselves...
No telling how many or how few attacks we have prevented, and how we did it. That is as it should be.
| 93 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 4, 2010 12:16:51pm |
re: #80 webevintage
sigh.
They knew where the dude was.
They were tracking him.
He got on the plane.
The plane was turned back and he was arrested along with 2 other people.
EVEN if he had made it to Dubai he would have been arrested as he got off the plane and sent back to us.
Failure! Once again! sigh, we suck, right?
/
| 94 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 12:16:58pm |
re: #78 Stanley Sea
Read Lawhawk's post above. The pilots were notified not to take off. You have no idea what the police and FBI had planned. They got the guy. He didn't take off. Now, you can suppose what could have happened all day, but it really is a waste, and not a reason to call for Napalitano's resignation.
I think there is an upside & down side to the way the arrest went down, on the upside he had already gone through screening so they were pretty sure he was not carrying a gun... down side do you want some one who likes to play with explosives on an airplane?
| 95 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, May 4, 2010 12:17:13pm |
Nepalitano's resignation? Really?
Focus... No bureaucrat will succeed in stopping every terrorist attack. They're too many bad guys, the country's too big, and they don't mind if they fail.
This would've happened with any administration.
Good. We got the D-B.
His mad Wile E. Coyote skills saved us.
| 96 |
garhighway Tue, May 4, 2010 12:17:28pm |
| 97 |
osprey34229 Tue, May 4, 2010 12:17:56pm |
We should focus on the important facts
Was he a member of The Tea Party?
Was he unhappy with Obamacare?
Was he upset with the new Az immigration law?
We certainly can't bring up his religion !
And we all know it was Bush's fault!!
| 98 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 4, 2010 12:18:26pm |
I consider it way over the top to call for Napolitano's resignation, however it's also incorrect to say everything went right here. There does need to be at least a "lessons learned" level of investigation of this incident.
| 99 |
webevintage Tue, May 4, 2010 12:19:01pm |
re: #97 osprey34229
We should focus on the important facts
Was he a member of The Tea Party?
Was he unhappy with Obamacare?
Was he upset with the new Az immigration law?
We certainly can't bring up his religion !
And we all know it was Bush's fault!!
What a nice little spewing of bullshit.
And with that folks I have to bow out of the conversation.
Gotta go do some errands.
Have a good day!
| 100 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:19:07pm |
| 101 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, May 4, 2010 12:19:11pm |
re: #95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Nepalitano's resignation? Really?
Focus... No bureaucrat will succeed in stopping every terrorist attack. They're too many bad guys, the country's too big, and they don't mind if they fail.
This would've happened with any administration.
Good. We got the D-B.
His mad Wile E. Coyote skills saved us.
Most important, we have freedom, rights to privacy etc. This makes stopping the bad guys that much harder.
| 102 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 4, 2010 12:19:12pm |
re: #63 lawhawk
To play devil's advocate:
DHS failed because they didn't prevent the attack from being launched. Only quick thinking witnesses, the NYPD and FDNY putting out the fires and the failure of a properly designed explosive/device prevented a far more serious situation. Homeland security didn't prevent Shahzad from entering the country from Pakistan, nor did it stop him from assembling the weapon or delivering it to Times Square.
I don't see how you can call these things "failures," because the reality is that no human being will ever be able to stop attacks like this from being launched. Sometimes the authorities get lucky and learn about the plots before they're launched, but they're not omnipotent; it's a big world, and it's simply impossible to catch every plotter.
I call it a success because they caught the guy before he managed to escape. That seems like a big win to me.
| 103 |
cliffster Tue, May 4, 2010 12:19:32pm |
re: #98 Thanos
I consider it way over the top to call for Napolitano's resignation, however it's also incorrect to say everything went right here. There does need to be at least a "lessons learned" level of investigation of this incident.
I'm sure Republicans will be calling for an investigation tomorrow
| 104 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 4, 2010 12:19:45pm |
re: #97 osprey34229
Got something to contribute other than wingnut whinging?
| 105 |
zora Tue, May 4, 2010 12:20:06pm |
re: #87 tradewind
and you will call for it again i'm sure. facts are obviously irrelevant to you.
| 106 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 12:21:33pm |
re: #97 osprey34229
We should focus on the important facts
Was he a member of The Tea Party?
Was he unhappy with Obamacare?
Was he upset with the new Az immigration law?
We certainly can't bring up his religion !
And we all know it was Bush's fault!!
Barking up the wrong tree buddy. LGF is pretty squarely against violent extremist and doesn't prejudice against motive.
Anything or anyone that riles up a rube enough for him to pick up a gun, a bag of fertilizer or a plane and aim it at some innocent people is addressed.
I don't care if you've got a show on fox news or a mosque full of people in Pakistan--if you're pushing people towards violence, you need to be told what's up. And if you're in either audience, and desperate enough to buy the garbage and try to kill people, you need some help as well.
| 107 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 4, 2010 12:21:40pm |
re: #102 Charles
But that subset returning from short visits to Pakistan are something we could watch better. I'm not calling it a failure, but overall we got lucky again. I think there does need to be at least a "lessons learned" review or investigation here.
| 108 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 12:22:27pm |
re: #104 Thanos
Got something to contribute other than wingnut whinging?
Caution: Butthurt Achieved.
| 109 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 4, 2010 12:23:10pm |
re: #107 Thanos
But that subset returning from short visits to Pakistan are something we could watch better. I'm not calling it a failure, but overall we got lucky again. I think there does need to be at least a "lessons learned" review or investigation here.
Agreed - and I'm sure they'll be doing that. Every attempted terror attack is also an opportunity to improve security techniques.
| 110 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:23:21pm |
re: #107 Thanos
But that subset returning from short visits to Pakistan are something we could watch better. I'm not calling it a failure, but overall we got lucky again. I think there does need to be at least a "lessons learned" review or investigation here.
Should such visits be grounds for a search warrant to tap phones?
| 111 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, May 4, 2010 12:24:29pm |
Heard today on the radiowaves that the DB's phone calls to Pakistan were monitored, but they couldn't listen in on his domestic calls... ie... to the airport.
| 113 |
osprey34229 Tue, May 4, 2010 12:25:20pm |
re: #104 Thanos
It was Bloomberg who made the connection to Obamacare
and the right wing not me!!
| 114 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, May 4, 2010 12:25:25pm |
re: #109 Charles
Agreed - and I'm sure they'll be doing that. Every attempted terror attack is also an opportunity to improve security techniques.
Not to mention refining our drone targeting.
| 115 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, May 4, 2010 12:25:29pm |
re: #107 Thanos
I wonder how many people a day fly in and out of the US from and to the middle east?
| 116 |
darthstar Tue, May 4, 2010 12:25:37pm |
| 117 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 12:25:54pm |
re: #111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Heard today on the radiowaves that the DB's phone calls to Pakistan were monitored, but they couldn't listen in on his domestic calls... ie... to the airport.
we learn, they learn, and so it goes.
| 118 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:26:22pm |
| 119 |
Jadespring Tue, May 4, 2010 12:26:33pm |
re: #113 osprey34229
It was Bloomberg who made the connection to Obamacare
and the right wing not me!!
So if someone else jumped off a bridge you would too?
| 120 |
Kragar Tue, May 4, 2010 12:26:58pm |
| 121 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:27:05pm |
re: #115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I wonder how many people a day fly in and out of the US from and to the middle east?
I'm not talking about the Middle East. I'm talking about Pakistan where people get training in making bombs. And, Yemen.
| 122 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 12:27:24pm |
re: #113 osprey34229
It was Bloomberg who made the connection to Obamacare
and the right wing not me!!
I think he is going to run in 2012...
| 123 |
darthstar Tue, May 4, 2010 12:27:48pm |
re: #95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
His mad Wile E. Coyote skills saved us.
Note to self: ACME Car Bombs for sale on Craigslist are not 100% reliable.
| 124 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, May 4, 2010 12:28:13pm |
re: #113 osprey34229
It was Bloomberg who made the connection to Obamacare
and the right wing not me!!
Bloomberg made an ass of himself, no doubt about it. That's one reason even ordinary stiffs like us make such a point of not speculating about a specific motive until we have actual information.
| 126 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 4, 2010 12:28:43pm |
re: #115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I'm not worried about the whole Middle East. There are known places almost all of these terrorists go to train and prep logistics. One of them is definitely the Hinterlands of Pakistan, certain suburbs in Quetta, Karachi, Peshawar, and Dara Adam Khel.
That's a no brainer.
| 127 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, May 4, 2010 12:28:45pm |
We had hurricane force winds today, power went out 4:00am this morning, back on around noon, back off 12:30pm back on now, and, power line down at top of mountain, wildfire... about 2/4 miles southwest (and up hill) of my house...
Local scanner info...
The fire is on ***** Circle right up the road. Sounds like 2 acres so far & moving to the west. Heavy fire, moving up the hill - Elk Creek on scene. Mutual aid requested from Evergreen, reverse 911 goning out for 1 mile area around fire. Evergreen not available, already fighting another fire. West Mutual fire requested for Type 1 and Type 6 engines, Intercanyon assist also requested. State Assistance offered and accepted. Platte Canyon and North fork Fire both have units on standby and Evergreen has freed up some units. New fire at Thunderbolt and Marauder.
I did a dry run with my car and all the critters, two big dogs in back seat, kitten in a carrier, parrot in a carrier, and two male cats roaming loose.
Went to top of hill, of course they chased me back down, some heavy white smoke...
Not so much now, but winds are still whipping up above 50 miles an hour gusts.
Will stay in touch.
| 129 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 4, 2010 12:29:16pm |
| 131 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:30:07pm |
| 132 |
osprey34229 Tue, May 4, 2010 12:30:16pm |
re: #122 brookly red
The dem's have a big tent he will fit right in!
| 133 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, May 4, 2010 12:30:46pm |
Gotta git to work.
Y'all save some of the world's problems for me to solve. Okay?
| 134 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 4, 2010 12:30:46pm |
re: #114 Shiplord Kirel
Not to mention refining our drone targeting.
All depends, I'd rather not have them practicing in New York...
| 135 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 12:30:58pm |
Here are my thoughts on security: We can't ask the US government to guarantee our safety. That would be impossible, and to attempt it would be insanely expensive (both in dollars and in civil rights sacrificed).
Similarly, I don't ask the government to guarantee that a tornado doesn't plow through my house. In either case, I want them to study the causes of these events, and do what they can to build protection, and help out if the worst happens.
The obvious difference is the factor of human motive. Its more personal when some asshole thinks up an idea to blow up some innocent people. We can't bomb the tornadoes (though maybe the Tea Partiers would want to).
But here's my answer to this "emotion": When I take trains, and I do so regularly, through Union Station in DC or Penn Station in NY, I consider the act of me walking through the station enjoying a cup of coffee on the way to work as a subtle middle finger to the would-be assholes planning attacks in caves all over the world.
And I enjoy the knowledge that even if the roof gets blown up while I'm in the station, that in a few months or years, some other American will be back, drinking her cup of coffee, giving her subtle middle finger to the next round of assholes.
| 137 |
avanti Tue, May 4, 2010 12:32:31pm |
re: #18 Liberal Classic
I'm far from an expert, but I would call this more of an incendiary than an explosive. Liquid propane and gunpowder have much less specific energy than high explosive chemicals. If the propane tanks would have ignited, it would have made a big fireball and blown out some windows nearby. Since there was no high explosive material, I don't think it would have left a crater in concrete and the pressure wave would not have been as great as IEDs encountered in Iraq and Afghanistan that are made from motars and artillery shells. The blast could have killed someone in close proximity, and left people nearby badly burned. I do not mean to minimize the magnitude of the crime.
The propane tanks would not explode without defeating a safety device, they would just vent like a flamethrower.
| 138 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 12:33:55pm |
re: #134 jamesfirecat
All depends, I'd rather not have them practicing in New York...
... so as I was saying...
Boom!
hey what was that?
oh that? drone practice.
OK, whatever, pass the wasabi...
| 139 |
avanti Tue, May 4, 2010 12:34:23pm |
re: #20 MandyManners
What if the pin-head had used the correct fertilizer?
It still would not have done anything without a few enhancements mentioned over and over on TV.
| 140 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 4, 2010 12:34:29pm |
re: #135 EastSider
What fails to kill you just makes you a better N'Yawker.
| 141 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, May 4, 2010 12:35:10pm |
re: #134 jamesfirecat
All depends, I'd rather not have them practicing in New York...
Don't worry, we have the census to refine the coordinates.
/The troof is out there, somewhere.
| 142 |
lawhawk Tue, May 4, 2010 12:36:13pm |
re: #137 avanti
See the video from Mythbusters above - they could do quite the fireball.
Also, the former head of the NYPD bomb squad said that we were quite lucky - the bomb had the potential to cause mass casualties.
Kevin Barry, a retired NYPD bomb squad supervisor and the head of the International Association of Bomb Technicians and Investigators, painted a gruesome picture of what might have been if the bomb had gone off Saturday night."Several hundred" could have been killed or maimed by a fireball exploding from the Nissan Pathfinder found loaded down with firecrackers, fertilizer, gasoline, propane and alarm clocks.
The propane-fueled flames wouldn't have brought down any buildings and would have lasted only a few seconds, but with flames shooting as high as 30 feet, the toll on people nearby would have been devastating, Barry said.
| 143 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 12:37:02pm |
re: #140 Decatur Deb
What fails to kill you just makes you a better N'Yawker.
personally I'm waiting for the Onion article that talks about Jets and Yankees fans who are pissed off that an amateur terrorist even attempted his act in their city. We don't stand for that shit, keep your JV terrorism in the minor leagues--this is NY, bring the A game or stay home.
/Butttt that would probably be a little too much fate tempting, even for us.
| 144 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:38:01pm |
re: #83 MandyManners
I forgot the talking points for a minute..
Isolated incident/Lone Gunman/ deranged doc.
Check.
| 146 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:38:49pm |
re: #127 Walter L. Newton
Beggin you, please keep the stormy stuff west of the Rockies.....
| 147 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 4, 2010 12:40:37pm |
re: #74 tradewind
They're already doing that. Please drop the ODS.
| 148 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, May 4, 2010 12:40:53pm |
re: #136 MandyManners
Take care!
I will... I just got the older step-critter to come home from job hunting and she is going to take the two large dogs in her van to the high school (which the country told us is the evacuation place if we needed)... and I have the kitten and parrot and two carriers ready. Right now, minimal white smoke coming off of the top of the mountain... we'll see what happens... I'm monitoring on a scanner, radio and a local community website.
I hope this doesn't get in the way of watching LOST tonight.
| 149 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:41:15pm |
re: #146 tradewind
Beggin you, please keep the stormy stuff west of the Rockies...
Nashville's fucked.
| 150 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, May 4, 2010 12:41:44pm |
re: #146 tradewind
Beggin you, please keep the stormy stuff west of the Rockies...
This ain't a storm, this is a wildfire at the top of the mountain where I live, 3/4 mile away, high winds, power lines up and down all day, electric spark started this...
| 151 |
MandyManners Tue, May 4, 2010 12:42:14pm |
re: #148 Walter L. Newton
I will... I just got the older step-critter to come home from job hunting and she is going to take the two large dogs in her van to the high school (which the country told us is the evacuation place if we needed)... and I have the kitten and parrot and two carriers ready. Right now, minimal white smoke coming off of the top of the mountain... we'll see what happens... I'm monitoring on a scanner, radio and a local community website.
I hope this doesn't get in the way of watching LOST tonight.
Good to see you're keeping things in perspective!
| 152 |
lawhawk Tue, May 4, 2010 12:42:54pm |
re: #127 Walter L. Newton
Stay safe! And don't take any chances -
| 153 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 4, 2010 12:43:33pm |
Interesting. News just came out that Shahzad was NOT on the plane -- he was arrested before he ever boarded the flight. So he wasn't actually very close to escaping.
| 154 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:43:36pm |
re: #150 Walter L. Newton
Oh crap... just figured that out. Take care, and don't hang around too long if it gets bad.
| 155 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 12:43:56pm |
re: #150 Walter L. Newton
This ain't a storm, this is a wildfire at the top of the mountain where I live, 3/4 mile away, high winds, power lines up and down all day, electric spark started this...
is worth it to spray some water on the roof?
| 157 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 12:45:50pm |
re: #153 Charles
Interesting. News just came out that Shahzad was NOT on the plane -- he was arrested before he ever boarded the flight. So he wasn't actually very close to escaping.
He could've been five hours into his overseas flight and the plane could still be diverted. I don't even Emirates Airline would refuse a demand to land with a wanted terrorist on board. This whole "skin of our teeth" meme is false.
| 158 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 12:46:01pm |
re: #149 MandyManners
I saw some shots of the Cumberland that looked pretty awful.
We're totally dry here, in fact I had to water the dad gummed hydrangeas that were drooping... but a few miles north, it's boat city.
| 159 |
cliffster Tue, May 4, 2010 12:46:54pm |
re: #157 JasonA
He could've been five hours into his overseas flight and the plane could still be diverted. I don't even Emirates Airline would refuse a demand to land with a wanted terrorist on board. This whole "skin of our teeth" meme is false.
c'mon, man, don't spoil all their fun.
| 161 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 12:47:07pm |
re: #153 Charles
I didn't think they would let a suspected bomber on a plane...
| 165 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 12:49:11pm |
re: #157 JasonA
He could've been five hours into his overseas flight and the plane could still be diverted. I don't even Emirates Airline would refuse a demand to land with a wanted terrorist on board. This whole "skin of our teeth" meme is false.
But...But...I was half way through writing my own Vince Flynn novel based on these events!!!
| 166 |
avanti Tue, May 4, 2010 12:49:13pm |
re: #142 lawhawk
See the video from Mythbusters above - they could do quite the fireball.
Also, the former head of the NYPD bomb squad said that we were quite lucky - the bomb had the potential to cause mass casualties.
Mythbuster showed how to defeat the safety by making a special tool. Without modification, the tank will just vent.
| 167 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, May 4, 2010 12:49:53pm |
re: #155 brookly red
is worth it to spray some water on the roof?
Yea... that will keep the dust down when the 60 foot lodge pole pines crack and go piking through the roof... :) no... we live on the side of a hill, we have it bush wacked twice a year, but there would be no way to stop it if the winds are just right.... right now the smoke is very minimal... I'll stay on line as I can...
The two large dogs are already off the property with my older step-critter. I got the kitten and Maisey the Parrot, and two animal carriers. I'm fine. and I have a road in front of my house and one that runs west-east on the other side... this thing would have to be moving very fast to jump the road before I could get out.
| 168 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 12:50:33pm |
re: #166 avanti
Mythbuster showed how to defeat the safety by making a special tool. Without modification, the tank will just vent.
how thoughtful of them...
| 169 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 4, 2010 12:50:44pm |
re: #156 tradewind
Did he make it past TSA?
Probably. It would be much safer to arrest him after he passed through security screening.
| 170 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 4, 2010 12:51:17pm |
| 171 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, May 4, 2010 12:51:47pm |
Latest up date from the local community PHP forum....
Shoutbox poster says fire on (my street) under control per News
| 172 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 12:52:57pm |
re: #169 Killgore Trout
Probably. It would be much safer to arrest him after he passed through security screening.
he left the gun in the car? Unless they were looking for his name (which maybe they were?) the TSA may not have had reason to stop him.
Why did he wait 48 hours to try to leave? He could've been on a plane just a few hours after the attack...or have driven to Canada?
Worst. Terrorist. Ever.
/Comic Book Guy
| 173 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 4, 2010 12:53:18pm |
re: #171 Walter L. Newton
Latest up date from the local community PHP forum...
Shoutbox poster says fire on (my street) under control per News
Glad to hear that. Stay safe, Walter.
| 174 |
avanti Tue, May 4, 2010 12:53:23pm |
re: #168 brookly red
how thoughtful of them...
They did not show exactly how they modified a common wrench to do the job, but I could do it in my garage.
| 175 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 12:53:57pm |
Emirates 202 carrying Times Square Bomb Suspect is recalled to gate at JFK moments before takeoff. Audio from liveatc.net.
| 176 |
Digital Display Tue, May 4, 2010 12:54:53pm |
re: #153 Charles
Interesting. News just came out that Shahzad was NOT on the plane -- he was arrested before he ever boarded the flight. So he wasn't actually very close to escaping.
Interesting indeed..Every time they drag somebody off a plane there are dozens of passengers giving interviews to the news..
Not one peep or eye witness account
| 177 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 4, 2010 12:55:12pm |
re: #175 JasonA
Emirates 202 carrying Times Square Bomb Suspect is recalled to gate at JFK moments before takeoff. Audio from liveatc.net.
[Video]
Nope. He wasn't on the plane. Latest news is that they called the plane back to search for more evidence, interview other people, etc.
Apparently they searched every bag on that plane.
| 178 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 4, 2010 12:55:23pm |
re: #9 darthstar
They say the fertilizer wasn't set up in a way to be explosive, and that the propane tanks weren't a major explosive hazard, either. The two gas cans could have ripped the car in half.
It wouldn't have made a crater and taken the front off of the Marriott.
Could have easily maimed or killed anyone in close range, though.
| 179 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 12:55:57pm |
re: #176 HoosierHoops
Interesting indeed..Every time they drag somebody off a plane there are dozens of passengers giving interviews to the news..
Not one peep or eye witness account
I think the other passengers are out of country by now...
| 180 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 12:56:08pm |
re: #177 Charles
Nope. He wasn't on the plane. Latest news is that they called the plane back to search for more evidence, interview other people, etc.
Apparently they searched every bag on that plane.
Sorry, I was just quoting the video's label. Yeah, they called it back to check the other passengers.
| 181 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 4, 2010 12:56:43pm |
re: #172 EastSider
he left the gun in the car? Unless they were looking for his name (which maybe they were?) the TSA may not have had reason to stop him.
I suspect they were keeping a close eye on him and monitoring his contacts before he tried to flee. TSA was probably alerted.
| 182 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 4, 2010 12:56:51pm |
re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Basic bomb set up isn't really that hard to picture. The devil is in the details.
"Chana, never sneak up behind the bomb maker."
| 183 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 4, 2010 12:57:42pm |
re: #22 jamesfirecat
Sort of.
It was mentioned that this REALLY EVIL IRA bomber used rat poison as part of the mix for his bombs to make sure that his victims bled out and suffered as much as possible.
IRA seems to have provided some training to Palestinian orgs at various times.
| 184 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 4, 2010 12:58:25pm |
| 185 |
garhighway Tue, May 4, 2010 12:58:41pm |
re: #177 Charles
Nope. He wasn't on the plane. Latest news is that they called the plane back to search for more evidence, interview other people, etc.
Apparently they searched every bag on that plane.
That's too bad. It ruins a really good "How could they let him get that close to escaping!?" narrative.
| 186 |
cliffster Tue, May 4, 2010 12:58:45pm |
I don't think she was really doing kitty CPR, but it's real sweet nonetheless. And very sad. You probably shouldn't watch it. I probably shouldn't post it.
| 187 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 12:58:52pm |
I think this is good news:
Crist Takes Lead in Three-Way Race
| 188 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 12:59:00pm |
/OK, lemmie see 3 propane tanks, 2 gas cans, 2 alarm clocks...
will that be cash or charge sir?
| 189 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 12:59:08pm |
re: #181 Killgore Trout
I suspect they were keeping a close eye on him and monitoring his contacts before he tried to flee. TSA was probably alerted.
What I enjoy is that even though the people on these LGF threads aren't privvy to the inner-workings of the task force searching for this guy, we're:
1) Not making wild assumptions about what was happening, and waiting for facts, and
2) Generally thinking they had their act together
The confidence in our security forces is encouraging.
| 190 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 1:01:24pm |
re: #188 brookly red
/OK, lemmie see 3 propane tanks, 2 gas cans, 2 alarm clocks...
will that be cash or charge sir?
I'm camping in the woods and driving my fourwheeler there.
And...umm....barbequeing....
And...umm...waking up early....
/He probably could have bought these w/ cash at many different locations over a week
//Buttt what we know about him indicates he was too stupid for that. He probably used a credit card and bought them all at the same home depot, and a book on safe handling of explosives
| 191 |
Digital Display Tue, May 4, 2010 1:02:21pm |
re: #179 brookly red
I think the other passengers are out of country by now...
So when they landed not one passenger made a statement to the press?
Hey..They took the Times square attempted bomber off my plane.. I was there! Maybe not..But something doesn't sound right...
| 192 |
avanti Tue, May 4, 2010 1:02:49pm |
re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist
Could have easily maimed or killed anyone in close range, though.
In opinion you likely would have had a big fire, not necessarily a big explosion from a gasoline fire. Movie car explosions are rigged, not from the gas tank explosion. You'll get a short fireball, than a hell of a fire. I'm not even certain it would heat the propane tanks hot enough to vent, but I'd bet the feds will try and replicate a working version of his contraption to find out.
| 193 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 1:03:39pm |
re: #190 EastSider
I'm camping in the woods and driving my fourwheeler there.
And...umm...barbequeing...
And...umm...waking up early...
/He probably could have bought these w/ cash at many different locations over a week
//Buttt what we know about him indicates he was too stupid for that. He probably used a credit card and bought them all at the same home depot, and a book on safe handling of explosives
And bought a map of Manhattan. And joined their mailing list. And gave them his business card....
| 194 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:04:04pm |
re: #190 EastSider
probably needed to go out of state for the fire works...
| 195 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 4, 2010 1:04:23pm |
re: #153 Charles
Interesting. News just came out that Shahzad was NOT on the plane -- he was arrested before he ever boarded the flight. So he wasn't actually very close to escaping.
Cnn breaking just twittered that he's been charged now
| 196 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 1:05:05pm |
re: #195 Thanos
Cnn breaking just twittered that he's been charged now
oh brave new world that has CNN tweeting the booking of a terrorist suspect.
| 197 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:05:20pm |
re: #193 JasonA
And bought a map of Manhattan. And joined their mailing list. And gave them his business card...
well if you remember the first WTC bomber tried to get the deposit on the truck back...
| 198 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 4, 2010 1:05:24pm |
re: #29 wrenchwench
You just called this a successful attack.
Anthrax attacks.
Shoe bomber.
Two killed by gunfire at LAX.
Beltway sniper attacks.
That was Bush's first two years, and I am deliberately leaving out attacks cannot possibly be linked to the WOT.
And, just to be damn clear, none of that is Bush's FAULT. But he was the guy on watch. Now Obama's the guy on watch.
| 199 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 1:05:57pm |
re: #193 JasonA
And bought a map of Manhattan. And joined their mailing list. And gave them his business card...
All probably true.
For me, I'm just really pissed that we let someone this stupid become an American citizen. Forget about malicious intent, this guy seems to be dumber than the nails he forgot to put in the truck.
| 200 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 4, 2010 1:06:17pm |
re: #195 Thanos
Cnn breaking just twittered that he's been charged now
I hope he gets the maximum. This guy needs to locked down and kept locked down.
| 201 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 4, 2010 1:06:52pm |
re: #52 MandyManners
Our investigators have to succeed every time. The terrorists have to succeed only once.
Yep. But there's no way to fix that except to be really, really good.
| 202 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, May 4, 2010 1:07:07pm |
re: #188 brookly red
/OK, lemmie see 3 propane tanks, 2 gas cans, 2 alarm clocks...
will that be cash or charge sir?
do you take Diner's Club?
| 203 |
Obdicut Tue, May 4, 2010 1:07:20pm |
re: #199 EastSider
Meh. One of the smarter physicists I know just nearly severed his pinky finger with a can opener over the weekend.
There's smart and then there's smart. I'm glad this guy wasn't smart. But he still might have been smart.
| 204 |
Nimed Tue, May 4, 2010 1:07:22pm |
re: #199 EastSider
All probably true.
For me, I'm just really pissed that we let someone this stupid become an American citizen. Forget about malicious intent, this guy seems to be dumber than the nails he forgot to put in the truck.
You're obviously surrounded by more intelligent people than I am.
| 205 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 4, 2010 1:07:54pm |
re: #60 tradewind
He boarded the freaking airplane.
Seconds, maybe minutes, literally, to spare, and he would have been on his way to Dubai.
(But I'm sure that we'd have scrambled some fighters to bring the passenger jet back).
OK, it was a tragedy. A disaster. Everybody run and scream!!
| 206 |
Lidane Tue, May 4, 2010 1:08:06pm |
re: #41 JasonA
You're forgetting the guy that crashed the plane into the IRS building. That was a terrorist attack.
Oh, and the guy who shot up the Holocaust Museum. Terrorist attack.
Pentagon shooting? Terrorist attack.Why do you ignore those, I wonder...
Because it fucks with the convenient narrative of brown people with funny names being the only terrorist threat in this country.
| 207 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:09:00pm |
re: #199 EastSider
All probably true.
For me, I'm just really pissed that we let someone this stupid become an American citizen. Forget about malicious intent, this guy seems to be dumber than the nails he forgot to put in the truck.
the sucky part is that as the WTC showed once these guys pick a target they are likely to try, try again.
| 208 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 1:09:12pm |
re: #200 Dark_Falcon
I hope he gets the maximum. This guy needs to locked down and kept locked down.
All depends on whether or not he has some useful information to give us.
| 209 |
Racer X Tue, May 4, 2010 1:11:13pm |
re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist
OK, it was a tragedy. A disaster. Everybody run and scream!!
*wrings hands*
What to do, what to do?
Answer:
Hug your kids, kiss your spouse, live your life the way you desire. Do everything in our power to prevent the next one. Do not let them terrorize us.
| 210 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:11:57pm |
re: #209 Racer X
*wrings hands*
What to do, what to do?
Answer:
Hug your kids, kiss your spouse, live your life the way you desire. Do everything in our power to prevent the next one. Do not let them terrorize us.
and if you see something, say something...
| 211 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 1:12:07pm |
re: #209 Racer X
*wrings hands*
What to do, what to do?
Answer:
Hug your kids, kiss your spouse, live your life the way you desire. Do everything in our power to prevent the next one. Do not let them terrorize us.
i'll bring the beer? I'll bring the beer. I'll bring the beer!
| 212 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:12:42pm |
re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist
And, just to be damn clear, none of that is Bush's FAULT. But he was the guy on watch. Now Obama's the guy on watch.
If the Presidents had the kind of power that their critics accuse them of neglecting to use we'd all be perfectly save living under the care of our benevolent overlords.
| 213 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:13:24pm |
re: #204 Nimed
You're obviously surrounded by more intelligent people than I am.
Half the people I know are below average.
| 215 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 1:14:34pm |
re: #213 DaddyG
Half the people I know are below average.
That's strange, half the people I know are below the median.
/Grammar Nazi's neglected cousin, Math Nazi
| 216 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, May 4, 2010 1:15:08pm |
re: #203 Obdicut
Meh. One of the smarter physicists I know just nearly severed his pinky finger with a can opener over the weekend.
There's smart and then there's smart. I'm glad this guy wasn't smart. But he still might have been smart.
what did the dumber physicists you know do over the weekend?
(yes, i am proud of myself. thank you.)
| 217 |
Buck Tue, May 4, 2010 1:15:29pm |
re: #48 Thanos
While I agree that the cat was out of the bag for anyone determined to be terrorist, and that there are better blueprints, I don't want our government releasing this stuff. It might encourage a crazy person who could just get lucky by happenstance.
It might also twig a suspicion if you see someone loading a gun safe in the back of a truck next to propane tanks and gas containers.
| 218 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 4, 2010 1:15:37pm |
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
# Suspect Faisal Shahzad will be charged with act of terrorism, attorney general says
# "It is clear that this was a terrorist plot," Attorney General Eric Holder says
# Other suspects arrested in house raid in Karachi, Pakistan, Pakistani source says
# Shahzad, 30, will appear Tuesday in federal court in Manhattan
Like I said well above, there are certain areas of Karachi....
| 219 |
Mark Pennington Tue, May 4, 2010 1:15:50pm |
re: #78 Stanley Sea
Read Lawhawk's post above. The pilots were notified not to take off. You have no idea what the police and FBI had planned. They got the guy. He didn't take off. Now, you can suppose what could have happened all day, but it really is a waste, and not a reason to call for Napalitano's resignation.
A lot is going on that they have no clue about but it hasn't stopped them from flapping their gums. I have to sign off because I may say something that I cannot say and some comments are making my blood boil.
| 220 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:15:51pm |
re: #209 Racer X
*wrings hands*
What to do, what to do?
Answer:
Hug your kids, kiss your spouse, live your life the way you desire. Do everything in our power to prevent the next one. Do not let them terrorize us.
The day after the Olympic Park Bombing in '96 we took our kids to the park along with a gazillion other Atlantans to show the terrorists we owned our city. Paradoxically it was the safest I've ever felt in a crowd that large.
| 221 |
Lidane Tue, May 4, 2010 1:16:06pm |
re: #213 DaddyG
Half the people I know are below average.
Heh. That reminds me of a line from George Carlin. I don't remember his exact words, but he basically told people to think about how stupid the average person was, then realize that half of them are even dumber than that.
| 222 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:16:40pm |
re: #215 EastSider
That's strange, half the people I know are below the median.
/Grammar Nazi's neglected cousin, Math Nazi
That figures. /
| 223 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, May 4, 2010 1:17:07pm |
re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist
IRA seems to have provided some training to Palestinian orgs at various times.
Norman Finkelstein is just so totally outrageously outraged that anyone would dare accuse the cute, cuddly, social-services-providing Hamas of putting rat poison into their bomb belts along with the nails, shrapnel, and ball bearings.
| 224 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 4, 2010 1:17:20pm |
| 225 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 4, 2010 1:17:30pm |
re: #217 Buck
It might also twig a suspicion if you see someone loading a gun safe in the back of a truck next to propane tanks and gas containers.
You don't need extraordinary means to check on someone like this who returns from Pakistan either. I suspect Normal cop shop stuff that they do before they get warrants would have uncovered this, but it's hard to tell without more detail. That's why I'm suggesting some followup
| 226 |
Kragar Tue, May 4, 2010 1:18:27pm |
Rage really building up that we aren't killing this man:
John Gardner Blames Rage At ‘State Budget Cuts’ For Girl’s Deaths
According to Gardner, he was angry over budgets cuts in the state of California, and that it caused him to stalk, attack, and then kill the two girls He even blamed school cuts on DuBois even having been walking for him to abduct, assault and then kill in the first place.
“I was in a major rage and pissed off — pissed off at my whole life and everybody that’s hurt me and blew up, and I hurt the wrong people.
“I hate myself. I really do. There is no taking back what I did. And if I could, yes I would, are you kidding me? But I was out of control. If I was able to stop myself in the middle of it, I would have. And I could not. I was out of control.”
But his remorse can’t be that strong. ABC reports that when they asked him after this statement if there were other victims, he started laughing.He has also not explained how his rage over those cuts related to the attempted assault on 23-year-old Candice Moncayo, or his 2000 molestation of a 13-year-old girl.
| 227 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 1:18:32pm |
| 228 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:19:27pm |
| 229 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 1:19:35pm |
re: #227 JasonA
On this, at least, LGF is not divided.
Yeah, but you really have to...umm....don't forget the....uhhhh....MULTIPLY.
| 230 |
avanti Tue, May 4, 2010 1:20:01pm |
LGF in the news
"As even the right-leaning blog Little Green Footballs comments: "An honest American citizen is handcuffed and forced to show a birth certificate, in a harbinger of what to expect when Arizona's absurd immigration laws go into effect".
| 231 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, May 4, 2010 1:20:50pm |
re: #203 Obdicut
Meh. One of the smarter physicists I know just nearly severed his pinky finger with a can opener over the weekend.
There's smart and then there's smart. I'm glad this guy wasn't smart. But he still might have been smart.
Smart doesn't mean coordinated.
| 232 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 1:21:12pm |
re: #230 avanti
LGF in the news
"As even the right-leaning blog Little Green Footballs comments: "An honest American citizen is handcuffed and forced to show a birth certificate, in a harbinger of what to expect when Arizona's absurd immigration laws go into effect".
For all LGF news articles:
Ctrl+F: "Right-Leaning"
Ctrl+R: "Sane-Leaning"
| 233 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:21:20pm |
re: #229 EastSider
Yeah, but you really have to...umm...don't forget the...uhhh...MULTIPLY.
Just carry the remainder.
| 234 |
lawhawk Tue, May 4, 2010 1:22:22pm |
Stocks definitely took it on the chin today - following the continuing mess with the Greek debt situation.
Dow unofficially closes down 1.99 pct, S&P 500 down 2.37 pct, Nasdaq down 2.98 pct
| 235 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 4, 2010 1:22:22pm |
re: #208 JasonA
All depends on whether or not he has some useful information to give us.
If he does, then I'd let him have a lower security level. Once an Islamist has progressed to this sort of murder attempt, I don't think they can be reformed.
| 236 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 1:22:28pm |
| 237 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:23:22pm |
re: #235 Dark_Falcon
If he does, then I'd let him have a lower security level. Once an Islamist has progressed to this sort of murder attempt, I don't think they can be reformed.
/not even by Saudi Art therapy?
| 238 |
avanti Tue, May 4, 2010 1:23:33pm |
re: #232 EastSider
For all LGF news articles:
Ctrl+F: "Right-Leaning"
Ctrl+R: "Sane-Leaning"
I agree, once mostly right leaning posters, now, mostly all sane posters of all types.
| 239 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 1:23:34pm |
re: #235 Dark_Falcon
If he does, then I'd let him have a lower security level. Once an Islamist has progressed to this sort of murder attempt, I don't think they can be reformed.
I don't think we manage to reform many criminals at all.
| 240 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 4, 2010 1:23:37pm |
re: #230 avanti
LGF in the news
"As even the right-leaning blog Little Green Footballs comments: "An honest American citizen is handcuffed and forced to show a birth certificate, in a harbinger of what to expect when Arizona's absurd immigration laws go into effect".
Enjoy that while it lasts, if all goes according to plan this blog will be left leaning by the time they start talking about how Charles Johnson foresaw Obama's complete trouncing of Sarah Palin in the 2012 election...
| 241 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:23:51pm |
| 242 |
lawhawk Tue, May 4, 2010 1:23:51pm |
re: #236 JasonA
Don't deviate from the mean and you'll be just fine.
| 243 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, May 4, 2010 1:24:03pm |
re: #230 avanti
LGF in the news
"As even the right-leaning blog Little Green Footballs comments: "An honest American citizen is handcuffed and forced to show a birth certificate, in a harbinger of what to expect when Arizona's absurd immigration laws go into effect".
we're still right-leaning? sweet! high-five...come on...don't leave me hanging...
| 244 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:24:26pm |
| 245 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 4, 2010 1:24:34pm |
re: #230 avanti
LGF in the news
"As even the right-leaning blog Little Green Footballs comments: "An honest American citizen is handcuffed and forced to show a birth certificate, in a harbinger of what to expect when Arizona's absurd immigration laws go into effect".
Charles should email them his "Why I left the Right" column.
| 246 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, May 4, 2010 1:24:54pm |
| 247 |
Digital Display Tue, May 4, 2010 1:24:55pm |
| 248 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, May 4, 2010 1:25:14pm |
| 249 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 1:25:28pm |
| 250 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:25:54pm |
re: #239 JasonA
I don't think we manage to reform many criminals at all.
I have seen very heartening things in our state with some public private initiatives aimed at getting offenders back out into society and working productive jobs/living productive lives. Some of them turn and counsel recent parolees. It is difficult to reassimilate to the point where many feel it is safer to commit another crime and go back to prison.
| 251 |
Nimed Tue, May 4, 2010 1:26:06pm |
re: #235 Dark_Falcon
If he does, then I'd let him have a lower security level. Once an Islamist has progressed to this sort of murder attempt, I don't think they can be reformed.
That makes sense.
You were actually thinking about the man's reform? You're a better man than I am.
| 252 |
Lidane Tue, May 4, 2010 1:26:40pm |
OT, but I am amused:
Phoenix Suns to wear 'Los Suns' Jerseys on Cinco de Mayo
The Phoenix Suns will wear "Los Suns" on their jerseys Wednesday for Game 2 of the Western Conference semifinals, owner Robert Sarver said, "to honor our Latino community and the diversity of our league, the state of Arizona and our nation."
The decision to wear the jerseys on the Cinco de Mayo holiday stems from a law passed by the Arizona Legislature and signed by Gov. Jan Brewer that has drawn widespread criticism from Latino organizations and civil rights groups that say it could lead to racial profiling of Hispanics. President Barack Obama has called the law "misguided."
In a statement, Sarver said the frustration with the federal government's failure to deal with the illegal immigration issue led to the passage of what he called "a flawed state law."
He said that the law calls into question "our basic principles of equal rights and protection under the law" and will cause Arizona's economy to suffer setbacks at a time when the state is already in economic distress.
| 253 |
avanti Tue, May 4, 2010 1:26:41pm |
re: #234 lawhawk
Stocks definitely took it on the chin today - following the continuing mess with the Greek debt situation.
Dow unofficially closes down 1.99 pct, S&P 500 down 2.37 pct, Nasdaq down 2.98 pct
I bought some low hanging fruit today. The rest of the news is so good, a dip is just a buying opportunity. ( I hope)
| 254 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:26:44pm |
re: #240 jamesfirecat
Enjoy that while it lasts, if all goes according to plan this blog will be left leaning by the time they start talking about how Charles Johnson foresaw Obama's complete trouncing of Sarah Palin in the 2012 election...
Charles doesn't lean so much as pedal.
| 255 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, May 4, 2010 1:26:54pm |
UPDATE....
Well, I don't see any new smoke, no billowing white clouds of smoke like I saw two hours ago... although the county issued this callback to our phones and to emails...
"This message is to let you know the Jeffco sheriffs office is reporting two fires in the Conifer area…one south of (my neighborhood) and the other south of Highway 74. Conifer high has been set up as an evacuation site for residents in the (my subdivision) subdivision…if you live in this area, your child will be held at their respective schools. Students who live in the (my subdivision) will need to be picked up by their parents. If parents have questions call your child’s school directly."
But no smoke in my area right now at all. As I say, two hours ago, I went 3/4 miles up hill from my house, toward the smoke, dry run with all my critters, and there was an active brush fire at the top of the mountain.
All in all, I think this is subsiding. I suspect the country is playing it safe with all the contingent plans and warnings.
Report back in a bit.
| 256 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 1:27:01pm |
| 257 |
keloyd Tue, May 4, 2010 1:27:42pm |
I am grateful beyond words for the incompetent boobery of our enemies. The Atlantic has a short, clever article asserting it may stay this way for a long time - that terrorist attacks within the US will be perpetrated by mostly incompetent loners, Islamist or not.
Bonus - most Arab Americans are Christian.
Imagine if Germans or Japanese were attempting to bomb stuff here. Do you think they would use a 17 year old SUV, the wrong fertilizer, and appear to just throw together what happened to be laying around in any Texan's garage?
During WW1, in the years when we were technically neutral but selling arms to the British, Gerry bombed the crap out of various targets in an around New York. They targeted military production, and the bombs actually went off, devil his due.
| 258 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:27:46pm |
re: #250 DaddyG
I have seen very heartening things in our state with some public private initiatives aimed at getting offenders back out into society and working productive jobs/living productive lives. Some of them turn and counsel recent parolees. It is difficult to reassimilate to the point where many feel it is safer to commit another crime and go back to prison.
we are talking car bombs here...
| 259 |
Nimed Tue, May 4, 2010 1:28:12pm |
| 260 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:28:13pm |
re: #244 brookly red
hmmm, a calculating punster...
Just factoring in my audience.
Here's your sine.
| 262 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 1:29:09pm |
| 263 |
Digital Display Tue, May 4, 2010 1:29:27pm |
| 264 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, May 4, 2010 1:29:38pm |
Here is some pictures... I live on the down side of that mountain, to the left, in the foreground...
| 265 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, May 4, 2010 1:29:52pm |
re: #259 Nimed
Just try to keep it real.
so...no taking the square root of -1? or no science fiction tangents?
because one of those statements is fightin' words...
| 266 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:30:04pm |
| 267 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, May 4, 2010 1:30:20pm |
re: #260 DaddyG
Just factoring in my audience.
Here's your sine.
Ok, that's it. I've died and gone to math pun hell.
| 268 |
Buck Tue, May 4, 2010 1:30:23pm |
re: #225 Thanos
You don't need extraordinary means to check on someone like this who returns from Pakistan either. I suspect Normal cop shop stuff that they do before they get warrants would have uncovered this, but it's hard to tell without more detail. That's why I'm suggesting some followup
Follow up everyone who returns from Pakistan?
I don't understand.
| 269 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 4, 2010 1:30:31pm |
re: #239 JasonA
I don't think we manage to reform many criminals at all.
Agreed. The worst thing is that this man isn't a simple criminal, he's a terrorist. He did not do what he did for money or power, but out of ideological conviction. Such people cannot be made to change and the closed cycle ideology makes a real reform unlikely.
| 270 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 4, 2010 1:30:44pm |
re: #257 keloyd
I am grateful beyond words for the incompetent boobery of our enemies. The Atlantic has a short, clever article asserting it may stay this way for a long time - that terrorist attacks within the US will be perpetrated by mostly incompetent loners, Islamist or not.
Bonus - most Arab Americans are Christian.
Imagine if Germans or Japanese were attempting to bomb stuff here. Do you think they would use a 17 year old SUV, the wrong fertilizer, and appear to just throw together what happened to be laying around in any Texan's garage?
During WW1, in the years when we were technically neutral but selling arms to the British, Gerry bombed the crap out of various targets in an around New York. They targeted military production, and the bombs actually went off, devil his due.
That said during WW2 a lot of their machines/weapons weren't being made by Germans but instead by the people they'd conquered/allied with...
[Link: tvtropes.org...]
"This troper's neighbour recalls an unexploded bomb in his village. When a bomb disposal team opened the casing, they found an inscription tracing the bomb to a Czech factory, and that the fuse system had been replaced with cement. Think about it for a moment. Czech workers, whose country had been conquered by the Nazis even before the war had begun, were risking their lives in order to save people they'd never know."
Well their mistake was our gain...
| 271 |
lawhawk Tue, May 4, 2010 1:30:54pm |
re: #257 keloyd
Black Tom Incident took out a significant chunk of the harbor facilities - and damaged Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty and caused shattered windows and property damage for miles all around. It damaged the torch, and since then, the arm has been off limits to visitors.
| 272 |
Kragar Tue, May 4, 2010 1:30:58pm |
| 273 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, May 4, 2010 1:31:01pm |
re: #264 Walter L. Newton
Here is some pictures... I live on the down side of that mountain, to the left, in the foreground...
beautiful country...hope they keep that sucker contained.
| 274 |
charlz Tue, May 4, 2010 1:31:08pm |
re: #267 Shiplord Kirel
Ok, that's it. I've died and gone to math pun hell.
The ratio of groaners is growing, isn't it?
| 275 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 1:31:12pm |
re: #266 brookly red
/you equate sane with rational?
well, i really meant sane. but that didn't have a math pun. so a shoe-horned rational in there.
I'm really a lesser punnist. (BOOM!)
| 276 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, May 4, 2010 1:31:38pm |
re: #267 Shiplord Kirel
Ok, that's it. I've died and gone to math pun hell.
oh, come on. integrate with the rest of us/
| 277 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:31:48pm |
re: #258 brookly red
we are talking car bombs here...
Uh... Yeah- never mind. I went on a rabbit trail there.
Your point is good. The kinds of offenders in the programs are not attempted mass murderers.
| 278 |
Buck Tue, May 4, 2010 1:31:55pm |
re: #257 keloyd
and the bombs actually went off, devil his due.
Ya, that is what Billy the terrorist is saying... at least my bombs went off.
| 279 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:32:04pm |
re: #267 Shiplord Kirel
Ok, that's it. I've died and gone to math pun hell.
now if we can get FVB to come up with one for Pi...
| 280 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, May 4, 2010 1:32:49pm |
Small Luggage Explodes at Bush Airport
A small piece of luggage exploded at Bush Intercontinental Airport on Tuesday afternoon. No injuries were reported.The luggage exploded shortly after it was unloaded from a jet around 2 p.m., according to the Houston Airport System. The jet had just landed at the airport.
Ground crews said they noticed something strange about the luggage and were working to remove it when the explosion occurred. While no injuries were reported, several agencies including the Houston Fire Department, were called to the scene.
The flight number and airline on which the luggage was carried was not immediately released, and no further information was available.
A small luggage? Small enough to hide behind a shrubbery?
| 281 |
lawhawk Tue, May 4, 2010 1:33:02pm |
re: #270 jamesfirecat
The Nazis also used slave labor and even Jews in building munitions - including the V rockets. There are numerous accounts of various kinds of sabotage to the weapons systems - whether dealing with fuses, the explosives, or other parts of those systems to prevent their proper operation.
| 282 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:34:19pm |
re: #267 Shiplord Kirel
Ok, that's it. I've died and gone to math pun hell.
Bonus points to anyone who can incorporate boobs into math pun thread...
/Lizards love a challenge
| 283 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:34:26pm |
re: #279 brookly red
now if we can get FVB to come up with one for Pi...
oh wait Pi squared = Sicilian pizza my favorite!
sorry FVB.
| 284 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 1:34:46pm |
Faisal Shahzad Arrest: Lieberman Proposes Taking Away Citizenship Of Suspected Terrorists
I'd be a little more comfortable with this line of talk if the word 'convicted' was in there...
Also, I learned something new from the article:
Lieberman's bill would amend current law that revokes the citizenship of any American who joins a foreign military. The law exempts those who fight for Israel.
Never knew that.
| 285 |
Digital Display Tue, May 4, 2010 1:34:57pm |
| 286 |
lawhawk Tue, May 4, 2010 1:35:03pm |
re: #280 Shiplord Kirel
Sounds like an aerosol canister that went off after being pressurized/depressurized.
| 287 |
darthstar Tue, May 4, 2010 1:35:08pm |
re: #264 Walter L. Newton
Here is some pictures... I live on the down side of that mountain, to the left, in the foreground...
Lots of steamy smoke...all that late moisture was a good thing...10 to 100 hour fuels burning primarily...some hand cut line and a few sawyers and they should have that thing contained in short time. (Missing my days in the forest service fighting fires right now...though that was pre-high speed internet).
Let's hope the fire season is relatively mild this year.
| 288 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 1:35:13pm |
#267 Shiplord Kirel
Ok, that's it. I've died and gone to math pun hell.
Ahh, but the Math Nerds will be the only ones who can appreciate today's significance as Star Wars Day.
Yes, May the Fourth be with you all.
| 289 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 4, 2010 1:35:19pm |
re: #268 Buck
Follow up everyone who returns from Pakistan?
I don't understand.
No, not everyone who returns but there are patterns and places. This guy went Karachi - Peshawar - Waziristan and back to my understanding.
| 290 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:35:23pm |
re: #282 DaddyG
Bonus points to anyone who can incorporate boobs into math pun thread...
/Lizards love a challenge
2 + 2 = more?
| 291 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, May 4, 2010 1:35:28pm |
re: #282 DaddyG
Bonus points to anyone who can incorporate boobs into math pun thread...
/Lizards love a challenge
You're going to milk it for all it's worth, aren't you?
| 292 |
Nimed Tue, May 4, 2010 1:36:47pm |
| 293 |
Digital Display Tue, May 4, 2010 1:37:07pm |
re: #282 DaddyG
Bonus points to anyone who can incorporate boobs into math pun thread...
/Lizards love a challenge
My Dimensional analysis prof had great boobs
| 294 |
cliffster Tue, May 4, 2010 1:37:42pm |
re: #282 DaddyG
Bonus points to anyone who can incorporate boobs into math pun thread...
/Lizards love a challenge
hey baby, you have nice boobs. Let's multiply.
| 295 |
Kragar Tue, May 4, 2010 1:37:50pm |
re: #290 brookly red
2 + 2 = more?
Who remembers Gully Dwarf math?
How many guards were there?
2.
Just 2?
1 and 1 and 1 and 1 and 1 and 1 and 1. No more than 2.
| 296 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:38:00pm |
re: #282 DaddyG
Bonus points to anyone who can incorporate boobs into math pun thread...
/Lizards love a challenge
maybe something about lowest common denominator?
| 297 |
lawhawk Tue, May 4, 2010 1:38:23pm |
re: #282 DaddyG
Well, I heard that there was once a person with a supernumerary nipple. ///
| 298 |
Kragar Tue, May 4, 2010 1:38:27pm |
re: #288 EastSider
#267 Shiplord Kirel
Ahh, but the Math Nerds will be the only ones who can appreciate today's significance as Star Wars Day.
Yes, May the Fourth be with you all.
You will rue the day.
| 299 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, May 4, 2010 1:39:19pm |
| 300 |
EastSider Tue, May 4, 2010 1:40:15pm |
I feel bad for latecomers to this thread looking for a political discourse on car bomb schematics.
| 301 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 4, 2010 1:40:38pm |
re: #251 Nimed
That makes sense.
You were actually thinking about the man's reform? You're a better man than I am.
I try to consider whose life can be turned around. If you've got some 15 year old in Iraq who set up a bomb for money, you don't waterboard him. You lock him up, yes, but you also try to get him away from jihadist ideas and teach him a useful skill. When you're dealing with a 23 year old who traveled far to learn to kill, and then set up a bomb solely to kill 'infidels', you're dealing with someone that most likely is past changing. The only thing to do is lock him up.
| 302 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, May 4, 2010 1:40:56pm |
| 303 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 1:41:02pm |
| 304 |
Aceofwhat? Tue, May 4, 2010 1:41:40pm |
re: #302 rwdflynavy
OK, now I've got an axes to grind with you!
ah, i'm sure we'll intersect somewhere...
| 305 |
DaddyG Tue, May 4, 2010 1:41:42pm |
| 306 |
darthstar Tue, May 4, 2010 1:41:53pm |
re: #282 DaddyG
Bonus points to anyone who can incorporate boobs into math pun thread...
/Lizards love a challenge
| 307 |
brookly red Tue, May 4, 2010 1:42:00pm |
re: #300 EastSider
I feel bad for latecomers to this thread looking for a political discourse on car bomb schematics.
sorry if we are subtracting from the conversation...
| 308 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, May 4, 2010 1:42:03pm |
Everyone wish me a Happy Anniversary, 20 years in the Navy today. Think I might make it a career...
| 309 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 4, 2010 1:42:07pm |
re: #280 Shiplord Kirel
Small Luggage Explodes at Bush Airport
A small luggage? Small enough to hide behind a shrubbery?
BLAME BUSH!!1
/Keith Olbermann
| 310 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, May 4, 2010 1:42:27pm |
re: #307 brookly red
sorry if we are subtracting from the conversation...
that really struck a chord with me.
| 311 |
cliffster Tue, May 4, 2010 1:42:49pm |
re: #252 Lidane
OT, but I am amused:
When San Antonio played Miami this year, they always wore jerseys saying, "Los Heat" and "Los Spurs".
| 312 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, May 4, 2010 1:42:59pm |
re: #288 EastSider
#267 Shiplord Kirel
Ahh, but the Math Nerds will be the only ones who can appreciate today's significance as Star Wars Day.
Yes, May the Fourth be with you all.
And happy Life Day to you!
| 313 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 4, 2010 1:42:59pm |
re: #308 rwdflynavy
Everyone wish me a Happy Anniversary, 20 years in the Navy today. Think I might make it a career...
Happy anniversary. Thank you for serving our country.
| 314 |
Kragar Tue, May 4, 2010 1:43:34pm |
| 315 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, May 4, 2010 1:44:21pm |
Going OT because I want to add a little humor to a very serious thread subject.
This is a minute long and brought tears of laughter to my eyes.
How To Deal With Global Warming Deniers
| 316 |
keloyd Tue, May 4, 2010 1:44:36pm |
re: #284 JasonA
Faisal Shahzad Arrest: Lieberman Proposes Taking Away Citizenship Of Suspected Terrorists
I'd be a little more comfortable with this line of talk if the word 'convicted' was in there...
Also, I learned something new from the article:
Never knew that.
1. I wonder if a conviction of fraud in the process of becoming a citizen would be enough to take away citizenship? OR just enough to put a citizen in prison for life?
2. Didn't one of those homosexual Air Force pilots go to Australia and join their Air Force? Good for Australia on that one.
3. That Israel exception rubs me slightly the wrong way. Our interests and theirs occasionally conflict, and we both already routinely put spies for the other in prison. Lots of our friends - the UK, Canada, France, etc. are perfectly nice places with healthy, civilized culture, but the military is no place for divided loyalty. Treat them all the same I say.
| 317 |
Digital Display Tue, May 4, 2010 1:45:02pm |
re: #308 rwdflynavy
Everyone wish me a Happy Anniversary, 20 years in the Navy today. Think I might make it a career...
I salute you for your service sir...Thank you
| 318 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, May 4, 2010 1:46:41pm |
re: #314 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
You are so deserving a smack right now.
Could be worse. If I wasn't at work I would post the clip of a stoned Carrie Fischer singing the Life Day song.
| 319 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 1:46:51pm |
re: #316 keloyd
3. That Israel exception rubs me slightly the wrong way. Our interests and theirs occasionally conflict, and we both already routinely put spies for the other in prison. Lots of our friends - the UK, Canada, France, etc. are perfectly nice places with healthy, civilized culture, but the military is no place for divided loyalty. Treat them all the same I say.
I agree.
| 320 |
darthstar Tue, May 4, 2010 1:46:51pm |
| 321 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 4, 2010 1:47:22pm |
re: #84 tradewind
Somehow I don't really think the US wants to adopt the fatalistic, hair -trigger - hyper - alert -living on the edge reality of daily life that Israel has been forced to adopt.
No one wants to. But if it's coming, it's coming. Israel does not have the problem they have because they've been soft on terror. By a long shot.
That said, I do not foresee us ever reaching that kind of level of crisis in this conflict.
| 322 |
Digital Display Tue, May 4, 2010 1:48:02pm |
re: #315 LudwigVanQuixote
Going OT because I want to add a little humor to a very serious thread subject.
This is a minute long and brought tears of laughter to my eyes.
How To Deal With Global Warming Deniers
[Video]
LOL
Love ya Ludwig!
Be well
| 323 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, May 4, 2010 1:48:17pm |
re: #316 keloyd
1. I wonder if a conviction of fraud in the process of becoming a citizen would be enough to take away citizenship? OR just enough to put a citizen in prison for life?
2. Didn't one of those homosexual Air Force pilots go to Australia and join their Air Force? Good for Australia on that one.
3. That Israel exception rubs me slightly the wrong way. Our interests and theirs occasionally conflict, and we both already routinely put spies for the other in prison. Lots of our friends - the UK, Canada, France, etc. are perfectly nice places with healthy, civilized culture, but the military is no place for divided loyalty. Treat them all the same I say.
That's actually not the reason for the exception. Many Jews who hold dual citizenship serve or have served in the IDF as part of the mandatory military service required of Israelis. The law is simply making clear that that is not a hostile act.
| 324 |
cliffster Tue, May 4, 2010 1:48:30pm |
re: #308 rwdflynavy
Everyone wish me a Happy Anniversary, 20 years in the Navy today. Think I might make it a career...
Thank you for your multiple decades of service, my friend.
| 325 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 4, 2010 1:48:58pm |
re: #97 osprey34229
We should focus on the important facts
Was he a member of The Tea Party?
Was he unhappy with Obamacare?
Was he upset with the new Az immigration law?
We certainly can't bring up his religion !
And we all know it was Bush's fault!!
Your litany of whine would be more effective if anyone here were, in fact, making those arguments.
| 326 |
Racer X Tue, May 4, 2010 1:50:46pm |
re: #315 LudwigVanQuixote
Going OT because I want to add a little humor to a very serious thread subject.
This is a minute long and brought tears of laughter to my eyes.
How To Deal With Global Warming Deniers
[Video]
OK, that's some funny right there.
| 327 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, May 4, 2010 1:51:35pm |
re: #308 rwdflynavy
Everyone wish me a Happy Anniversary, 20 years in the Navy today. Think I might make it a career...
Congratulations!
| 328 |
Lidane Tue, May 4, 2010 1:51:48pm |
re: #311 cliffster
When San Antonio played Miami this year, they always wore jerseys saying, "Los Heat" and "Los Spurs".
Ah, but the Suns owner is calling this a political statement-- and he's a Republican:
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]
After the Suns won their first-round series in Portland on Thursday, Sarver made the decision that he wanted the Suns to wear the orange "Los Suns" jerseys, which Phoenix wore in two March home wins for the NBA's Noche Latina marketing. In a team meeting at Sarver's house Saturday, the players were unanimously in favor of wearing them on Cinco de Mayo, Sarver said by phone.
"I looked around our plane and looked at our players and the diversity in our organization," Sarver said. "I thought we need to go on record that we honor our diversity in our team, in the NBA and we need to show support for that. As for the political part of that, that's my statement."
| 329 |
Nimed Tue, May 4, 2010 1:53:21pm |
re: #284 JasonA
Faisal Shahzad Arrest: Lieberman Proposes Taking Away Citizenship Of Suspected Terrorists
I'd be a little more comfortable with this line of talk if the word 'convicted' was in there...
Also, I learned something new from the article:
Never knew that.
That fucker and Tom Friedman. I think I loathe them more than any "fringe" figure in our politics.
| 330 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, May 4, 2010 1:53:27pm |
Fuck Robert Sarver.
The only statement we should be making is beating the shit out of the Spurs in this series.
THATS IT.
| 331 |
Mocking Jay Tue, May 4, 2010 1:56:15pm |
re: #323 Dark_Falcon
That's actually not the reason for the exception. Many Jews who hold dual citizenship serve or have served in the IDF as part of the mandatory military service required of Israelis. The law is simply making clear that that is not a hostile act.
A lot of friendly countries still have conscription:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 332 |
Nimed Tue, May 4, 2010 1:56:31pm |
re: #308 rwdflynavy
Everyone wish me a Happy Anniversary, 20 years in the Navy today. Think I might make it a career...
Here's a 40 year music to celebrate the occasion:
Sorry, I just couldn't resist it.
| 333 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, May 4, 2010 1:59:49pm |
re: #308 rwdflynavy
Everyone wish me a Happy Anniversary, 20 years in the Navy today. Think I might make it a career...
Many congratulations and thank you for your service!
| 334 |
charlz Tue, May 4, 2010 2:11:37pm |
re: #291 Shiplord Kirel
You're going to milk it for all it's worth, aren't you?
This should be nipped in the bud.
| 335 |
William of Orange Tue, May 4, 2010 2:22:29pm |
UPDATE:
Video of someone who was standing about 10 meters from where the Amsterdam incident started. Skip to 1'25" for the start of the incident. The man is swiftly arrested.
According to pressreleases there were several people hurt in the incident, cuts and broken bones. The Queen inisested that the ceremony would continue. Afterwards she visited some of the injured people.
The complete incident from how it was televized. The incident occurs after 2'48".
More and more videos are emerging on Youtube. Watch the start of the panic here.
[Link: nos.nl...]
| 336 |
Buck Tue, May 4, 2010 2:58:16pm |
re: #316 keloyd
3. That Israel exception rubs me slightly the wrong way. Our interests and theirs occasionally conflict, and we both already routinely put spies for the other in prison. Lots of our friends - the UK, Canada, France, etc. are perfectly nice places with healthy, civilized culture, but the military is no place for divided loyalty. Treat them all the same I say.
I don't see why. Of course Rahm would have lost his US citizenship.... born in Chicago... Nah, just kidding he didn't SERVE in the Israeli Armed forces... that is just a rumor...
| 337 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 4, 2010 3:10:33pm |
re: #160 tradewind
Ever flown Emirates?
Best .service .ever.
I'd prefer not to. Even if the stewardesses do seem to wear cute little medieval headdresses.
| 338 |
RogueOne Tue, May 4, 2010 3:26:27pm |
re: #53 Stanley Sea
Ridiculous to say that somehow homeland security failed.
They stopped and arrested this guy. Success!
The only success here was the capture. The bomber and Homeland Security both failed. I'm willing to give DHS a pass so far but to call this a successful stop of a terrorist is crazy. They didn't stop him from blowing up his car, he failed.
| 339 |
tradewind Tue, May 4, 2010 4:06:34pm |
re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist
It was a tragedy averted.
Hope they don't have to do it again.
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