Greek Financial Crisis Going Viral

Business • Views: 12,295

Yikes. The stock market is plunging on the latest news from Greece.

Problems with Greek debt are about to spread to other countries and could infect the US unless the nation tackles its own mounting problems, Pimco’s Mohamed El-Erian told CNBC.

Riots erupted in Greece again on Thursday night to protest austerity measures.

About an hour or so after El-Erian spoke, global stocks sold off sharply with major US averages shedding more than 3 percent.

Speaking as Greek austerity measures won enough votes to be approved by parliament, El-Erian offered a stern warning about the potential of the crisis to escalate into something resembling, though not duplicating, the 2008-09 financial crisis.

“We’ve seen a crisis start in a country—Greece—become regional, impact the whole of the Euro zone and is on the verge of truly going global,” said El-Erian, CEO of the world’s biggest bond fund. He said the debt is a “transmission mechanism to go from country to region to global. So we should take this very seriously.”

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461 comments

1 pharmmajor  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:53:45am

OT: Reason TV takes on the nonsense behind the "vaccines cause autism" lie.

[Link: reason.com...]

2 Obdicut  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:53:52am

All bets are off.

3 wrenchwench  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:54:19am

Somebody Greeced the skids.

4 prairiefire  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:54:19am

So I tried to be brave and check the news. I turned on the TV and saw this. Shit, more shit.

5 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:54:35am

Dow's acting like a yo-yo...down a thousand, back up a couple hundred...still an hour to go for people to get their shit together.

6 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:54:48am

The market was off about 1000, now at 470. I tried to get in at the bottom, but was a little late.

7 Digital Display  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:55:18am

pulling back to 454.. But I saw a 300 point drop in 3 minutes! Now it is dropping again

8 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:55:52am

Cities in the US are seeing the cost of unsustainable union benefits.

9 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:57:17am

re: #7 HoosierHoops

pulling back to 454.. But I saw a 300 point drop in 3 minutes! Now it is dropping again

Wow.

10 pharmmajor  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:57:48am

Have I mentioned how glad I am I don't play the stock market.

11 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:58:25am

Back up to just down 382. (Back up to just down? It's hard to type this stuff!)

12 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:58:42am

The good news is, I just took a fresh blackberry pie out of the oven.

13 engineer cat  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:58:55am

geez

well, remember the old wall st joke:

the stock market has correctly predicted 11 of the last 6 recessions

14 subsailor68  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:59:58am

It's heading back up.

Oops, it's heading back down.

Up a little.

Down a bit.

This is Sherman Stuffle, reporting live from the roller coaster at Six Flags Magic Mountain.

15 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:00:15pm

I think we need to pass a Greece reform bill

16 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:00:18pm

re: #12 Alouette

The good news is, I just took a fresh blackberry pie out of the oven.

Alouette,

That is bad news (for me)! cause I am not there to enjoy a piece! Looks great.

17 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:01:04pm

re: #16 rwdflynavy


That was supposed to read: Bad news for me since I am not there to enjoy a piece. Looks great Alouette!!!

18 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:01:37pm

re: #15 cliffster

I think we need to pass a Greece reform bill


Grecian Stimulus!

19 Digital Display  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:01:40pm

We are sitting at around 400 down..whoops 470 down...
But the eye opener was when the news reported the Dow almost drop a 1000 points in an hour...Wow..That was a shock! Luckily we have kind of recovered..What a drop!

20 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:02:25pm

re: #12 Alouette

The good news is, I just took a fresh blackberry pie out of the oven.

The pie was fresh to you? Did it catcall you, pinch you inappropriately?

21 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:02:36pm

on its way down

22 webevintage  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:02:44pm

re: #12 Alouette

The good news is, I just took a fresh blackberry pie out of the oven.

Yummy.
Nice counter tops....

23 charles_martel  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:03:22pm

Buy! Buy! Buy!

25 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:03:43pm

How soon before someone blames Bush?

26 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:04:01pm

I guess someone found the market's Achilles' heel.

27 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:04:08pm

re: #25 MandyManners

How soon before someone blames Bush?

I already did... in the last thread.

28 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:04:34pm

re: #24 rwdflynavy

Violent Movie Declares War on Arizona for Immigration Law

Christ, their headlines are getting more ridiculous.

29 wrenchwench  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:04:51pm

re: #20 Mad Al-Jaffee

That comment is all there in the Spy, but truncated on this page. Same for rwdflynavy's #16.

30 _RememberTonyC  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:05:18pm

nanny states lead to this sort of thing .... we are not immune

31 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:05:32pm

re: #26 Mad Al-Jaffee

I guess someone found the market's Achilles' heel.

What are you? Some Oracle at Delphi?

32 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:05:33pm

re: #29 wrenchwench

That comment is all there in the Spy, but truncated on this page. Same for rwdflynavy's #16.

Yeah, I noticed that after I posted it.

33 Digital Display  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:06:30pm

If you are the average investor ..You just lost 22% of your money in less than 60 minutes...

34 Randall Gross  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:06:33pm

That had to be a bot sell off...

35 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:06:40pm

re: #29 wrenchwench

That comment is all there in the Spy, but truncated on this page. Same for rwdflynavy's #16.

Don't mess with pie!

36 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:06:56pm

Funny thing is I took some money out of my IRA to pay for some home improvement last week, and had bough back in as it was approaching -900, but was a little late. I bought GE about 8 percent down, making about 3 % on my money in one day right now. Might get a free roof out of the deal.

37 wrenchwench  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:07:09pm

The video at the link at the top is very educational, by the way.

38 political lunatic  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:07:12pm

It was down close to 1000 20 minutes ago. We are fucked.

39 Randall Gross  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:07:14pm

re: #33 HoosierHoops

If you are the average investor ..You just lost 22% of your money in less than 60 minutes...

You haven't lost anything until you sell, and only if you sell. It will recover.

40 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:07:58pm

on the way up

41 badger1970  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:08:04pm

re: #25 MandyManners

How soon before someone blames Bush?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

42 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:08:10pm

re: #27 Walter L. Newton

I already did... in the last thread.

Why?

43 Randall Gross  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:08:24pm

Of course a few day traders and the likes might get caught in the grinders...

44 Spider Mensch  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:08:41pm

The EU members just need to stop the blah blah blah bullshitting about the way to solve the crisis and just start providing the financial assistance it has promised to all it's members. Greece is part of th EU, all other member countries kick in and put an end to it. It is the reason the EU was initiated..not only to spread the wealth in good times, but to cover for each other in bad times..well it's a bad time...fix it!

45 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:08:47pm

re: #30 _RememberTonyC

nanny states lead to this sort of thing ... we are not immune

DING!

46 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:08:50pm

re: #22 webevintage

Yummy.
Nice counter tops...

Eh, it's just formica. I couldn't afford granite.

47 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:08:52pm

It's a yo-yo effect. The markets are moving sharply on the debt crisis in Greece, and then it rebounds to the US. Then, the overreaction corrects moving the markets back up, before the stocks drop again.

For those wondering about circuit breakers/trading curbs: NASDAQ wont curb trading at this point, unless the markets drop 20% or more. Same on the DJIA.

48 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:09:38pm

The video of carbecues and riots from Greece?
Flash forward to California and NY in a few years if something isn't done.

49 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:09:57pm

re: #41 badger1970

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I'm hoping it was sarcasm.

50 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:10:04pm

re: #31 rwdflynavy

What are you? Some Oracle at Delphi?


It's gonna take a Labor of Heracles for the market to recover.

51 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:10:04pm

I'm looking forward to listening to Kai Ryssdall this afternoon on Marketplace...he'll be fun to listen to.

52 _RememberTonyC  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:10:15pm

gonna go vacuum my wife's car ..... maybe i'll be living in it by the end of the trading day ...

53 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:10:16pm

re: #23 charles_martel

Buy! Buy! Buy!

Duke & Duke, is that you? /

54 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:10:19pm

re: #33 HoosierHoops

If you are the average investor ..You just lost 22% of your money in less than 60 minutes...

I take the long view, 22% of the 50% plus gain from the recent lows.

55 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:10:19pm

CNN is showing live video of the riots in Athens...

56 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:10:52pm

I am sooooo glad I spent all of my retirement money during my unemployment. Now I don't sweat the market at all. //

57 freetoken  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:11:27pm

I think it is important to put Greece in perspective. Greece's financial problems affect the larger world economy because Greece's problems are the EU's problems, in two senses.

First, the Euro-nations have their currency at stake. This highlights the problem of the European central bank, which controls the Euro but whose decisions are very much removed from the fiscal decisions of the independent nations, like Greece. Thus Greek legislators have made decisions over the years quite independent of any regard for the Euro.

This then leads us to the second big problem: The Euro nations are a subset of the EU, thus the EU political system is hampered in dealing with the Euro.

It's very understandable why the Europeans got themselves into this situation - trying to avoid the problems that ran in WWI and WWII.

Yet once again we are reminded that the complex systems we create inevitably have their weaknesses challenged.

It's also why all those who just two years ago were touting the end of the Dollar were very much mistaken, or at least too early in their prognoses.

58 Lidane  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:11:29pm

re: #24 rwdflynavy

Violent Movie Declares War on Arizona for Immigration Law

Yeah. Because a film that was written almost 20 years ago and filmed here in Austin last year is directly about Arizona's new laws.

Machete just happens to have an illegal immigration plot. The only thing the directors did here was create a trailer based on current events. Fox needs to get over it.

59 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:11:38pm

prediction: the Dow will finish up for the day

60 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:11:56pm

re: #55 Charles

CNN is showing live video of the riots in Athens...

Fox business was, and they were watching on the NY exchange floor.

61 Randall Gross  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:12:04pm

re: #55 Charles

CNN is showing live video of the riots in Athens...

The Austerity measures passed I am going to guess?

62 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:12:27pm

Oooohkay. Official new rule. Cousins of EmmmieG are not allowed to travel internationally.

One cousin moved to Chile. They had a 9 plus earthquake.

Guess where her sister is right now? You guessed it.

All eyes on Zambia. My aunt is there. (Not their mother, their aunt.)

63 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:12:32pm

re: #58 Lidane

Yeah. Because a film that was written almost 20 years ago and filmed here in Austin last year is directly about Arizona's new laws.

Machete just happens to have an illegal immigration plot. The only thing the directors did here was create a trailer based on current events. Fox needs to get over it.

"We report, you decide!"//

64 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:13:14pm

Buy Seeds!
Buy Gold!

65 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:13:22pm

OK, the greek pun think just isn't taking off like I'd hoped...

66 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:13:37pm

re: #65 rwdflynavy

OK, the greek pun think thing just isn't taking off like I'd hoped...

67 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:13:51pm

re: #54 avanti

Dollar cost averaging is your friend, but we were due for a 10% correction following the most recent runup - we just don't expect it on one day.

Also, some of these reports make it look like the financial experts are idiots - claiming that they didn't know that the Greek situation would linger for years and that they'd face a depression for several years. What do you think happens when a nation goes that far into debt that it needs a massive bailout from other countries (that are themselves highly leveraged)?

68 subsailor68  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:13:56pm

re: #65 rwdflynavy

OK, the greek pun think just isn't taking off like I'd hoped...

Oh, you're just being a drachma queen!

;-)

69 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:14:11pm

re: #58 Lidane

Yeah. Because a film that was written almost 20 years ago and filmed here in Austin last year is directly about Arizona's new laws.

Machete just happens to have an illegal immigration plot. The only thing the directors did here was create a trailer based on current events. Fox needs to get over it.


I was just about to post all that. Also:

Principal photography began on July 29, 2009 in and around the city of Austin, Texas.


And nevermind the fact that, yeah, it will be violent, but an over-the-top comedic violence which may or may not make people laugh). Cheech Marin as a priest wielding two shotguns? Whatever, Fox.

70 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:15:08pm

MSNBC is saying there's a possible computer glitch adding to the panic. Proctor & Gamble went from down 2% to down 25%, and there's no rational reason for that kind of volatility, or so sayeth their expert.

71 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:15:10pm

re: #61 Thanos

It did.

72 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:15:21pm

re: #65 rwdflynavy

OK, the greek pun think just isn't taking off like I'd hoped...

Hercules was Roman. Heracles is your man here

73 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:16:08pm

re: #72 cliffster

Hercules was Roman. Heracles is your man here

re: #50 rwdflynavy

It's gonna take a Labor of Heracles for the market to recover.

re: #72 cliffster

Hercules was Roman. Heracles is your man here


I got it right!

74 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:16:30pm

re: #25 MandyManners

How soon before someone blames Bush?

A commenter at Free Republic wrote a post called "Beware Greece Bearing Debt" in which s/he mentioned "Obama" 13 times in 15 sentences, and "Greece" zero times.

75 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:16:37pm

re: #64 pingjockey

Buy Seeds!
Buy Gold!

Buy magic beans!

76 bosforus  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:16:53pm

Why did I put all my money in hummus?! WHY?!

77 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:17:05pm

re: #12 Alouette

Hope no one saw that....
I just drooled a little !
Yummy!!

78 badger1970  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:17:21pm

re: #56 DaddyG

same herere: #70 darthstar

Computer glitch like the like "Debt of Honor" plot?

79 subsailor68  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:17:32pm

re: #76 bosforus

Why did I put all my money in hummus?! WHY?!

Well, don't expect any pita from me!

80 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:17:36pm

re: #74 negativ

A commenter at Free Republic wrote a post called "Beware Greece Bearing Debt" in which s/he mentioned "Obama" 13 times in 15 sentences, and "Greece" zero times.

And,...?

81 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:17:40pm

Relax, everyone...John McCain says the fundamentals of the Greek economy are strong.

82 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:17:42pm

re: #75 Mad Al-Jaffee
Heh! Hey, I just got home for lunch, the Dow was down 1000?

83 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:17:46pm

re: #25 MandyManners
That ship sailed a while ago.

84 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:18:09pm

re: #73 rwdflynavy

I got it right!

hehe, I just took moron to a new level.

85 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:18:47pm

How far is Spain from being in the crapper like Greece?

86 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:18:56pm

re: #74 negativ

Might want to use a cached link if you're linking to that site.

87 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:19:01pm

Well... for those of us who have no investments, retirement plans, no money directly connected to the stock market, or have anything to do with the Euro... we can take one consolation in all this... maybe the Euro will be depressed enough against the dollar in 6 months or so that I will be able to afford to get back to Europe next winter.

88 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:19:04pm

re: #80 MandyManners

And,...?

And,...?;}'" hysterically scapegoating Bush is old and busted. Hysterically scapegoating Obama is the new hotness. Get with the program.

89 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:19:23pm
90 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:19:36pm

re: #84 cliffster

hehe, I just took moron to a new level.

I was a huge Greek Mythology nerd in school.

91 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:19:54pm

re: #87 Walter L. Newton
There ya go Walter! Think positive.

92 bosforus  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:20:04pm

re: #87 Walter L. Newton

We're all rootin' for ya!
;)

93 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:20:26pm

re: #65 rwdflynavy

OK, the greek pun think just isn't taking off like I'd hoped...

I don't know why. The puns were classics.

94 Lidane  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:20:45pm

re: #74 negativ

Every single comment in that thread ignores Greece altogether. There are rants about the AZ immigration laws, poorly Photoshopped pictures of Obama as the spawn of Satan, and other bits of inane blather.

95 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:20:57pm

Carne Asada street tacos with cilantro, onion and spicy salsa are making it hard to take this financial crisis seriously. Maybe after lunch...

96 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:21:09pm

Holy Shit! FNC and CNN showed a time lapse of the dow. That thing was going down like a dive bomber.

97 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:21:10pm

re: #88 negativ

And,...?;}'" hysterically scapegoating Bush is old and busted. Hysterically scapegoating Obama is the new hotness. Get with the program.

I do my best to ignore him.

98 prairiefire  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:21:29pm

re: #61 Thanos

The Austerity measures passed I am going to guess?

Yeah, the populace is having a fit.

99 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:21:53pm

This is big trouble for Europe.

The only EU country that really has the capital to do anything to bail out Greece is Germany, and the German people aren't feeling very generous toward Greece.

100 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:21:59pm

re: #45 MandyManners
England/UK's next. Just wait until the Brits wake up and find out what entitlements they're no longer entitled to under the new PM, whoever the poor sumbitch may be.
Maybe that veddy British reserve will kick in and they won't trash the place.

101 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:21:59pm

re: #95 Locker

Carne Asada street tacos with cilantro, onion and spicy salsa are making it hard to take this financial crisis seriously. Maybe after lunch...

Taco flavored kesses!

(sorry, couldn't resist)

102 webevintage  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:22:09pm

re: #69 JasonA

And nevermind the fact that, yeah, it will be violent, but an over-the-top comedic violence which may or may not make people laugh). Cheech Marin as a priest wielding two shotguns? Whatever, Fox.

Well that sounds all kinds of awesome covered with awesome sauce!

103 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:22:35pm

re: #100 tradewind

England/UK's next. Just wait until the Brits wake up and find out what entitlements they're no longer entitled to under the new PM, whoever the poor sumbitch may be.
Maybe that veddy British reserve will kick in and they won't trash the place.

Stiff upper lip.

104 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:22:58pm

re: #101 Mad Al-Jaffee

Taco flavored kesses!

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Oh shit... (looks around for flying debris from vinnievin)

105 webevintage  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:23:06pm

re: #74 negativ

A commenter at Free Republic wrote a post called "Beware Greece Bearing Debt" in which s/he mentioned "Obama" 13 times in 15 sentences, and "Greece" zero times.

Why would they even blame Obama?
Or Bush?
Or anyone but Greece?
Or...of course it is freepers.....

106 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:23:10pm

Do any of you smart lizards or those who've been watching this unfold, know what Greece raised their retirement age to?

107 bosforus  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:23:11pm

re: #94 Lidane

Every single comment in that thread ignores Greece altogether. There are rants about the AZ immigration laws, poorly Photoshopped pictures of Obama as the spawn of Satan, and other bits of inane blather.

At least our puns are on topic.

108 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:23:25pm

re: #106 pingjockey

Do any of you smart lizards or those who've been watching this unfold, know what Greece raised their retirement age to?


106
//

109 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:23:31pm

re: #106 pingjockey

Do any of you smart lizards or those who've been watching this unfold, know what Greece raised their retirement age to?

22.

110 bosforus  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:23:39pm

re: #106 pingjockey

Do any of you smart lizards or those who've been watching this unfold, know what Greece raised their retirement age to?

65
[Link: www.google.com...]

111 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:23:57pm

re: #99 Charles

And the scapegoated banks here in the US will likely be involved in rescuing the Greek government via the IMF or other vehicle, even as some of the same banks played a role in this mess in the first place - between the credit ratings agencies, the government, and banks turning a blind eye to the debt the Greek government was ringing up.

112 Lidane  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:24:09pm

re: #99 Charles

This is big trouble for Europe.

The only EU country that really has the capital to do anything to bail out Greece is Germany, and the German people aren't feeling very generous toward Greece.

It's going to get much, much worse before it gets better.

I've never been happier to not have any investments or mortgages as I am right now. I don't think I could have handled that kind of stress today.

113 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:24:18pm

re: #107 bosforus

At least our puns are on topic.


We like to Pan through various related topics.

114 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:24:23pm

re: #103 MandyManners
...or a stiff gin and tonic.

115 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:24:41pm

re: #85 pingjockey

How far is Spain from being in the crapper like Greece?

I believe, Portugal isn't far behind Greece, and Spain isn't far behind Portugal.
Spain is a much bigger economy than either Greece or Portugal.

116 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:24:47pm

re: #114 tradewind

...or a stiff gin and tonic.

Some folks around here need something stiff, that's for damn sure.

117 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:24:54pm

Somebody made a shitload of money today shorting the market.

Oh, and gold is up 25 dollars...so the Glenn Beckistanians will be happy.

118 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:25:02pm

re: #108 rwdflynavy

re: #109 MandyManners

Heh! I do know the EU has some, IMO, questionable social things they do. 6 weeks vacation, 35 hour work weeks, etc...State mandated.

119 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:25:12pm

re: #91 pingjockey

There ya go Walter! Think positive.

re: #92 bosforus

We're all rootin' for ya!
;)

First off... I wasn't kidding. I don't see my attitude about the ups and downs of the stock market or the world financial affairs any different that the folks who dump tons of money into the markets and cheer when they benefit off of selling short while other people loose their life savings.

Hell, we idolize anyone who can make a buck of the markets... so, in my little way, I have my niche, I wait for the "perfect" market, which is in my case a good dose of a good unhealthy market.

And then Europe here I come.

120 Digital Display  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:25:13pm

80% of all Greek debt is held outside the country...I don't think Germany wants any more of that action...

121 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:25:17pm

re: #106 pingjockey

Even the zygotes get a pension these days. ////

122 AK-47%  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:25:38pm
The EU members just need to stop the blah blah blah bullshitting about the way to solve the crisis and just start providing the financial assistance it has promised to all it's members. Greece is part of th EU, all other member countries kick in and put an end to it. It is the reason the EU was initiated..not only to spread the wealth in good times, but to cover for each other in bad times..well it's a bad time...fix it!

That's what they wanna do, but they are attatching conditions to keep it from turning into a bottomless pit, sorta what Obama wants to do with Wall Street, but the Greeks are reacting more violently than Wall Street.

123 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:25:48pm

re: #102 webevintage

Well that sounds all kinds of awesome covered with awesome sauce!

If you're taking a Robert Rodriguez movie seriously then you're doing it wrong. The only one I didn't find to be ridiculous was El Mariachi.

I don't mean that in a bad way, by the way.

124 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:26:01pm

re: #110 bosforus
What the hell was it before? You could retire at 62 here, if you don't want to eat!

125 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:26:07pm

re: #110 bosforus
That's just barbarism. Leaving the poor suckers with only maybe what... twenty five or thirty years in which to contemplate their misery?
That mediterranean diet does wonders, seriously. All the olive oil, red wine, and fish....
Centenarians all over the place.

126 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:26:11pm

re: #117 darthstar

Someone probably made a ton on the PG stock moves (of course someone lost a ton on those same moves).

127 charles_martel  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:26:24pm

If Greece goes bad, that will hurt the Euro, which in turn will probably strengthen the dollar.

128 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:26:32pm

re: #114 tradewind

...or a stiff gin and tonic.

Boodles, of course.

129 subsailor68  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:26:54pm

re: #121 lawhawk

Even the zygotes get a pension these days. ///

LOL! But it looks like all that may be ova now.

130 freetoken  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:27:02pm

In other news, the UK election results should start coming in. While everyone expect Labor to be the big loser, I guess the question is whether the Tories will be able to make a majority party.

With the EU roiling, probably not a good time for the UK to have a split government (which would make hard decisions very poorly.)

131 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:27:03pm

re: #127 charles_martel

If Greece goes bad, that will hurt the Euro, which in turn will probably strengthen the dollar.

I know that's not how I want the dollar strengthened.

132 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:27:10pm

re: #99 Charles

This is big trouble for Europe.

The only EU country that really has the capital to do anything to bail out Greece is Germany, and the German people aren't feeling very generous toward Greece.

There is no bailing out Greece. Greece is partially in the dumpster because of Germany dominating the Euro zone with its cheap yet skilled labor and the inability of the european competitors to devaluate their currency in order to compete. In short, Greece will be on handouts for a very long time until the whole market region there is completely restructured. Also, there is no formalized "lender of last resort" procedure within the Euro zone (something that was forgotten when the whole thing was set up), so Germans cannot expect to get any sort of political gain, some better representation out of getting taxed heavier to "bail out" Greece.

133 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:27:13pm

How the hell did we get this far without a
BUY GOLD!!!111!!
in this thread?

134 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:27:15pm

re: #118 pingjockey

re: #109 MandyManners

Heh! I do know the EU has some, IMO, questionable social things they do. 6 weeks vacation, 35 hour work weeks, etc...State mandated.

Buncha' fucking Spayshul Snowfwakes.

135 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:27:19pm

re: #129 subsailor68
Groan!

136 webevintage  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:27:31pm

Sigh.
While we are not investors (except for our pathetic 401K, we know we will work till we die) over half of my customers are international buyers and when they have money problems I have money problems.

137 truth stick  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:27:48pm

Gold went up to over 1200 bux an ounce, and oil is down to around 75 dollars a barrel.

138 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:27:50pm

re: #133 JasonA

How the hell did we get this far without a
BUY GOLD!!!111!!
in this thread?

See my 117

139 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:27:52pm

re: #127 charles_martel

If Greece goes bad, that will hurt the Euro, which in turn will probably strengthen the dollar.

Strong dollar, affordable European vacation. I just hope the protestors in Europe are careful and not burn down any of those wonderful old world historical attractions.

140 webevintage  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:27:55pm

re: #133 JasonA

How the hell did we get this far without a
BUY GOLD!!!111!!
in this thread?

Buy SEEDS!!!!

141 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:28:16pm

re: #133 JasonA

I did a double up thread. Gold and Seeds.

142 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:28:37pm

re: #113 rwdflynavy

We like to Pan through various related topics.

I don't feel like Kraken any jokes this afternoon.

143 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:28:41pm

re: #133 JasonA

How the hell did we get this far without a
BUY GOLD!!!111!!
in this thread?

I think Darthstar's "Glenn Beckistanians" comment was a nod in that direction. Beckistanians.. love it, love it, LOVE IT!

144 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:28:45pm

re: #138 darthstar

See my 117

Feh. You're 117 was a completely rational statement. There's no place for that in gold pimping.

145 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:28:50pm

re: #126 lawhawk These guys

... ...Results for: ShortPG.com


:)

146 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:29:02pm

re: #134 MandyManners
They think their shit don't stink.

147 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:29:04pm

re: #43 Thanos

Of course a few day traders and the likes might get caught in the grinders...

The new Grecian Formula turns day trader's hair gray in minutes...

148 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:29:11pm

re: #129 subsailor68
Just egging him on.

149 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:29:37pm

re: #143 Locker

I think Darthstar's "Glenn Beckistanians" comment was a nod in that direction. Beckistanians.. love it, love it, LOVE IT!

No caps? Srsly?

150 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:29:38pm

re: #142 Mad Al-Jaffee

I don't feel like Kraken any jokes this afternoon.

You deserve a trip to Tartarus for that one.

151 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:29:40pm

re: #144 JasonA

Feh. You're 117 was a completely rational statement. There's no place for that in gold pimping.

Curse me and my reasonable temperment.

152 bosforus  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:29:54pm

re: #119 Walter L. Newton

I was just giving you a hard time, Walter. My M-I-L was planning a trip for some of us to the Mediterranean next summer but changed plans bc of the cost so I'm actually in the same boat as you. We may get to go yet!

153 MisterCookie  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:30:04pm

There was a firebombing that killed a few people at a bank the other day. Its like, who wouldn't want to invest in Greece? I love that these anarchists who are supposed to represent the will of the people are now fucking over their own countries interests.

154 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:30:10pm

re: #146 pingjockey

They think their shit don't stink.

They're in for a surprise.

155 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:30:32pm

re: #143 Locker
Sorry, the ' Stan' isms by default belong to the followers of Islam.

156 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:30:34pm

re: #123 JasonA

If you're taking a Robert Rodriguez movie seriously then you're doing it wrong. The only one I didn't find to be ridiculous was El Mariachi.

I don't mean that in a bad way, by the way.

Sin City was pretty serious, with lots of humor of course.

157 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:30:39pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

Flip side to all that is the tourist industry in places like NYC metro area get hammered when the dollar weakens against the Euro, because Europeans come to the US to do their shopping (they'll arrive on a Friday with little more than a carry on, and return on Sunday with two bags worth of clothes bought cheap at places like Century 21 or Woodbury Commons outlets) - and make out like bandits vis a vis the exchange rate. That's been one of the saving graces on the NYC metro area economy, but if the Euro tanks, the tourism industry and business will get whacked. Not good either.

158 Randall Gross  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:30:43pm

re: #147 oaktree

The new Grecian Formula turns day trader's hair gray in minutes...

Yes and it works all the way out to the margins...

159 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:31:08pm

sorry, guys, today would have been a good day to have gold.

160 Big Steve  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:31:14pm

Is it ok to wear a Greek flag to school on Cinco de Mayo?

161 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:31:21pm

Er...Obligatory comment relating this mess to a Gordian Knot?

162 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:31:25pm

re: #154 MandyManners
We had better get our asses in gear. What happens if/when California has the issues Greece has? Or New Jersey?

163 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:31:27pm

re: #155 tradewind

Sorry, the ' Stan' isms by default belong to the followers of Islam.

Spoken like a true tradewindistanian.

164 goddamnedfrank  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:31:47pm

re: #99 Charles

This is big trouble for Europe.

The only EU country that really has the capital to do anything to bail out Greece is Germany, and the German people aren't feeling very generous toward Greece.

Early retirement in Germany is 63, normal retirement is 65.
Early retirement in Greece is 57, normal is 61.

I'd be pretty pissed off too were I a German citizen.

165 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:32:00pm

re: #155 tradewind

Sorry, the ' Stan' isms by default belong to the followers of Islam.

I think we should make an exception because that just works too well. Welcome to Beckistania! Please step to the left if your tinfoil hat is unregistered and please step the right if you have no gold...

166 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:32:05pm

re: #160 Big Steve

Is it ok to wear a Greek flag to school on Cinco de Mayo?

That would require more than three students and the history teacher to know what the Greek flag looks like.

167 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:32:07pm

re: #152 bosforus

I was just giving you a hard time, Walter. My M-I-L was planning a trip for some of us to the Mediterranean next summer but changed plans bc of the cost so I'm actually in the same boat as you. We may get to go yet!

Go for it... hang around a cocktail party, anyone who makes money off of others investments are treated like heros... so, I have no problem grabbing my little piece of the pie if I can... that's the game... right?

168 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:32:13pm

re: #134 MandyManners
I thought those rules were printed on the Euro.//

169 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:32:24pm

re: #162 pingjockey

In those instances, CA and NJ will get bailed out by the lender of last resort - the US govt. The problem is when the US govt needs its own bailout...

The trick is to avoid that problem, and that means getting spending and revenues in order.

170 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:32:36pm

re: #162 pingjockey

We had better get our asses in gear. What happens if/when California has the issues Greece has? Or New Jersey?

Gotta' make sure it never does.

171 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:32:41pm

re: #157 lawhawk

Flip side to all that is the tourist industry in places like NYC metro area get hammered when the dollar weakens against the Euro, because Europeans come to the US to do their shopping (they'll arrive on a Friday with little more than a carry on, and return on Sunday with two bags worth of clothes bought cheap at places like Century 21 or Woodbury Commons outlets) - and make out like bandits vis a vis the exchange rate. That's been one of the saving graces on the NYC metro area economy, but if the Euro tanks, the tourism industry and business will get whacked. Not good either.

Call me Soros... I don't care.

172 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:32:50pm

re: #169 lawhawk
Thank you.

173 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:32:56pm

re: #163 darthstar
Think I'll just distanistance myself from that one.

174 bosforus  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:33:11pm

re: #167 Walter L. Newton

Go for it... hang around a cocktail party, anyone who makes money off of others investments are treated like heros... so, I have no problem grabbing my little piece of the pie if I can... that's the game... right?

You do what you can when you can afford it. I think that's the game.

175 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:33:30pm

re: #156 Mad Al-Jaffee

Sin City was pretty serious, with lots of humor of course.


That's not quite what I mean. It's not that his movies are straight up comedies, but the action itself is portrayed in a humorous manner. That could mean rivers of unrealistic-looking blood or, well, Cheech Marin as a priest wielding two shotguns.

Also, Sin City was a collaborative effort.

176 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:33:42pm

re: #174 bosforus

You do what you can when you can afford it. I think that's the game.

I thought the game was to push the little cart?

177 Randall Gross  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:34:03pm

Greek Parliament passes austerity measures

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

178 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:34:23pm

re: #171 Walter L. Newton
Walter L. Newton Soros just doesn't sing.

179 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:34:51pm

re: #162 pingjockey
See [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

180 bosforus  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:34:54pm

re: #176 Locker

I thought the game was to push the little cart?

No. That's the sequel to the game.

181 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:34:56pm

re: #178 pingjockey

Walter L. Newton Soros just doesn't sing.

He pays lefties to sing for him.

182 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:35:12pm

re: #178 pingjockey

Walter L. Newton Soros just doesn't sing.

That's Walter Leslie Newton-Soros to you!

183 truth stick  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:35:23pm

It will be interesting to see how the far east markets react in the morning, and then what happens when Europe and the US markets. Whether we are done with the selloff or if we continue to go downward.

184 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:35:24pm

So the Greeks have learned from da French youts and had car b qs?

185 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:35:56pm

re: #180 bosforus

No. That's the sequel to the game.

There were no PL maps in the first release?

186 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:35:57pm

re: #89 lawhawk

Just before 3pm - PG dropped like a rock, and then jumped back. PG is 3.9% of the weighting in the DJIA 30.

Yep, some sharp traders with way more money than me to invest made millions in a few minutes.

187 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:36:11pm

re: #174 bosforus

You do what you can when you can afford it. I think that's the game.

Isn't the whole point of credit is that you can't afford it? (Usually but not always.)

188 truth stick  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:36:20pm

re: #184 pingjockey

So the Greeks have learned from da French youts and had car b qs?

The have moved on, from Car-B-Q's to Building-B-Q's

189 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:36:23pm
190 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:36:33pm

re: #179 tradewind
Saw that. IIRC, they(UK) are having elections today?

191 MrSilverDragon  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:36:40pm

I see this news, and the only thing I can think is "On the whole, it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy..."

192 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:36:59pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton
Ok, that's better!

193 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:37:08pm

re: #188 truth stick

And killed three people, including a pregnant woman.

194 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:37:51pm

re: #188 truth stick
Damn. Knew they'd burned down a bank. What else?

195 subsailor68  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:38:06pm

Well all, off to invest in several cold beers and a plate of boiled shrimp. I hope everyone has a terrific evening!

196 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:38:13pm

re: #96 pingjockey

Holy Shit! FNC and CNN showed a time lapse of the dow. That thing was going down like a dive bomber.

All over a the Greek economy, which is way smaller than California's.

197 wrenchwench  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:38:16pm

re: #184 pingjockey

So the Greeks have learned from da French youts and had car b qs?

I was in Greece for several weeks 30 years ago, and the youts then were demonstrating every weekend, sometimes twice, in downtown Athens. They weren't burning shit and killing people, though.

198 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:38:19pm

Anyone thinking that we are on the road to recovery is a moron. Anyone trying to politicize the economic situation is a jackass.

199 bosforus  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:38:32pm

re: #185 Locker

There were no PL maps in the first release?

Yes, but it's all fog-of-war type maps. What were we talking about again?

200 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:39:05pm

Off topic... I was just checking the weather... got to leave for work in a few minutes... the temperature is dropping (55-43 degrees F) in a few hours, and 40 percent chance of snow. There is snow at Loveland Pass on I70 and it's a mess... springtime in the Rockies.

201 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:39:18pm

re: #196 avanti
Yeah. I'm not a financial person, how much Greek debt does the US own and why did the riots affect the DJI so much?

202 wrenchwench  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:39:31pm

re: #198 cliffster

Anyone thinking that we are on the road to recovery is a moron. Anyone trying to politicize the economic situation is a jackass.

That would be every politician. We're in the realm of redundancy, there.

203 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:40:00pm

re: #199 bosforus

Yes, but it's all fog-of-war type maps. What were we talking about again?

Payload maps. Team Fortress 2.

We must push little cart!
Bomb cart will not push self!
Hey who stopped pushing the cart?

204 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:41:17pm

Here's a nice thought. Aren't Greece and Turkey still kind of adversaries on Cyprus? What if the Turks see this as an opportunity to grab some territory or concessions from the Greeks?

205 EastSider  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:41:24pm

this is some bad foreshadowing for where we could be in a few years. At least i hope its years, and not months.

206 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:41:28pm

OT: Yeah, thanks for clearing that up for us:

Ex-Gay Leader's Male Escort: Actually, We Did Have Sex

The escort, dubbed "Lucien" by the Miami New Times, told the paper that Rekers paid him to provide daily massages, in the nude. The massages included Rekers' favorite move, Lucien said, which he dubbed "the long stroke."

"Rekers liked to be rubbed down there," he said. He originally said the two did not have sex.

207 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:41:50pm

Off to work... have a 4011 on me.

208 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:41:56pm

re: #184 pingjockey
They can haz firez.

209 prairiefire  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:41:57pm

re: #123 JasonA

If you're taking a Robert Rodriguez movie seriously then you're doing it wrong. The only one I didn't find to be ridiculous was El Mariachi.

I don't mean that in a bad way, by the way.

My kids are big fans of his Spy Kids movies. They say number 3 is best.

210 reine.de.tout  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:42:08pm

Good grief! I just looked at my stock holdings.
I've lost 25% in just the past couple of weeks.
Yikes, indeed.

211 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:42:09pm

re: #202 wrenchwench

That would be every politician. We're in the realm of redundancy, there.

I can hear it now - Obama's gross mishandling of the economy. C'mon people.

212 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:42:28pm

re: #208 tradewind

They certainly did!

213 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:42:30pm

re: #210 reine.de.tout

Good grief! I just looked at my stock holdings.
I've lost 25% in just the past couple of weeks.
Yikes, indeed.

Oh no. I'm very sorry to hear that.

214 bosforus  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:42:58pm

re: #203 Locker

Ha ha, I've never played that game. I thought we were talking about a top-view parking lot (PL) game where you pushed shopping carts around. They both sound fun.

215 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:43:01pm

re: #210 reine.de.tout

Good grief! I just looked at my stock holdings.
I've lost 25% in just the past couple of weeks.
Yikes, indeed.

Set it and forget it, Reine. Gotta have the long view or you'll go nuts. And broke.

216 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:43:41pm

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

Off to work... have a 4011 on me.

I have a 1911 on me... well... sometimes.... mostly at the range.

217 reine.de.tout  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:43:57pm

re: #215 cliffster

Set it and forget it, Reine. Gotta have the long view or you'll go nuts. And broke.

Yeah, exactly.
The stocks are good ones, I've been thru this before with them, they will come back. I'm just glad I'm not expecting to have to use that money any time soon.

218 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:44:56pm

re: #198 cliffster

Anyone thinking that we are on the road to recovery is a moron. Anyone trying to politicize the economic situation is a jackass.

I think we are, and I'm not a moron. Many positives signs point to a faster than average recovery.

219 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:45:22pm

re: #214 bosforus

Ha ha, I've never played that game. I thought we were talking about a top-view parking lot (PL) game where you pushed shopping carts around. They both sound fun.

Probably cheap to pick up now a days and very fun to play. Here is the deal on the Payload maps. The site also has information on all the rest of the game features:

[Link: tf2wiki.net...]

220 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:46:30pm

Now there are some questions about the accuracy of the DOW drop. Many companies are questioning the DOW numbers.

221 pingjockey  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:46:32pm

BBIAB

222 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:46:38pm

re: #217 reine.de.tout

Let your eyes go blurry(un focused) turn the graph over (upside down)....and you'll feel better!
....sort of...:-(

223 EastSider  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:48:52pm

re: #201 pingjockey

Yeah. I'm not a financial person, how much Greek debt does the US own and why did the riots affect the DJI so much?

I'm not sure how much of it we own, but its certainly insignificant compared to our own debts.

Greece is connected to the Eurozone, its performance impacts the entire economy over there. The stocks in the DJIA are a dependent on the entire world's economy, so a hit to the Eurozone will hit them pretty hard. Everything is pretty well connected today, in a koom-bay-yah we're all in it together kind of way. Or, a kill the Archduke, put the whole world at war kind of way, if your glass is half empty.

Then again, I'm not a finance guy either.

224 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:48:55pm

back to -298 (subject to change)...but it looks like we'll have a down day, but not a catastrophically down day...12 minutes to go.

225 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:49:01pm

Yay! in the neg 200's now!

226 engineer cat  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:49:44pm

plunge blamed on "trading error", msnbc

wtf?

227 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:50:09pm

re: #224 darthstar

back to -298 (subject to change)...but it looks like we'll have a down day, but not a catastrophically down day...12 minutes to go.

Come on, 4:00.

228 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:50:26pm

MSNBC reporting a 'trading error at a major firm' is to blame for the big plunge.

So, if you're 50 floors down on your jump, now would be a good time to grab onto the side of the building...it was just a little mistake.

229 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:50:50pm

PG trade was a market error "bad trade" dropping the market, and there may be others. The PG error was over a trillion dollars. Some short sellers got rich this afternoon over the errors.

230 engineer cat  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:51:46pm

(makes sure mattress is well sewed up)

231 reine.de.tout  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:52:31pm

re: #229 avanti

PG trade was a market error "bad trade" dropping the market, and there may be others. The PG error was over a trillion dollars. Some short sellers got rich this afternoon over the errors.

I'm not understanding what you're saying.
What's a "bad trade" and a trading error?

232 EastSider  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:52:56pm

re: #231 reine.de.tout

I'm not understanding what you're saying.
What's a "bad trade" and a trading error?

santonio holmes for a 5th rounder.

233 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:53:08pm

If this is correct, then the PG trades darthstar and I posted about earlier led to program trading - selloffs based on what happened with PG, and sent the market into a tizzy (above and beyond the Greek debt crisis, which I think had been factored into the markets already since most folks figured the gov't there was going to adopt the austerity plan). Once the computer programs saw the data on PG, they instituted their sell programs accordingly.

234 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:54:21pm

re: #233 lawhawk

If this is correct, then the PG trades darthstar and I posted about earlier led to program trading - selloffs based on what happened with PG, and sent the market into a tizzy (above and beyond the Greek debt crisis, which I think had been factored into the markets already since most folks figured the gov't there was going to adopt the austerity plan). Once the computer programs saw the data on PG, they instituted their sell programs accordingly.

Someone's going to get a spanking over this.

235 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:54:49pm

re: #231 reine.de.tout

I'm not understanding what you're saying.
What's a "bad trade" and a trading error?

Somehow, the a trillion dollars of PG was reported sold, that was not, maybe others. If PG stock drops like a rock, other traders panic and sell their stock.

236 EastSider  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:55:06pm

re: #234 darthstar

Someone's going to get a spanking over this.

who's left? they fired all the bankers in the last two years. The cocaine and red bull markets of lower manhattan have been devastated.

237 reine.de.tout  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:55:54pm

From MSNBC. It looks like a bunch of things happened, including some computer-generated automatic selling?

KEITH SPRINGER, PRESIDENT, CAPITAL FINANCIAL ADVISORY SERVICES, SACRAMENTO, CALIF.:

"All you saw was the absence of bids and you had the trading programs kick in ... it's almost like institutions had them set on 10,500. It's just fear based selling. It started out as a catalyst for a market that was deeply overbought. It's a silly, fear-based decline ... people are looking at Greeks throwing bricks and molotov cocktails.

"The market reacts based on the fear it doesn't know, and right now it doesn't know about Spain and Portugal. The reality is that if Spain and Portugal go, then so does the UK.

"Right now you just have a panic sell. It could be a long-term negative for stock market because it could mean the long term high is in place. It's very likely we've seen the highs for this cycle."

238 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:55:54pm

re: #234 darthstar

They'll have to check the records and see what happened. That will take some time..

239 prairiefire  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:56:49pm

In 20 years, those young pup traders in the news photos are going to grizzled veterans trading stories over martinis about the craziness that started in 2008.

240 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:57:02pm

re: #235 avanti

Somehow, the a trillion dollars of PG was reported sold, that was not, maybe others. If PG stock drops like a rock, other traders panic and sell their stock.

And if it truely was an error (that led everyone onto dumping the stock) many will start re-buying it in earaly trading in the morning

241 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:57:11pm

More TSA professionalism in action.

For Airport Security, Size Matters

242 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:57:36pm

CNBC: Trading Error at Major Firm Blamed for Market Plunge: Sources (Story Developing) = someone pressed the wrong button in executing a trade, which led to the running of the bears.

243 prairiefire  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:58:35pm

re: #242 lawhawk

CNBC: Trading Error at Major Firm Blamed for Market Plunge: Sources (Story Developing) = someone pressed the wrong button in executing a trade, which led to the running of the bears.

Good call, market wiz lizards!

244 darthstar  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:58:42pm

re: #242 lawhawk

CNBC: Trading Error at Major Firm Blamed for Market Plunge: Sources (Story Developing) = someone pressed the wrong button in executing a trade, which led to the running of the bears.

An someone else is probably looking at this and thinking, There's an opportunity here to make a lot of money by pressing that button.

245 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:58:56pm

re: #242 lawhawk

CNBC: Trading Error at Major Firm Blamed for Market Plunge: Sources (Story Developing) = someone pressed the wrong button in executing a trade, which led to the running of the bears.

That happened today, so it doesn;t explain the triple digit losses of the prior days this week

246 reine.de.tout  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:58:59pm

re: #240 sattv4u2

And if it truely was an error (that led everyone onto dumping the stock) many will start re-buying it in earaly trading in the morning

Mine are already on their way back up.

Hm.

247 EastSider  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:59:07pm

re: #242 lawhawk

CNBC: Trading Error at Major Firm Blamed for Market Plunge: Sources (Story Developing) = someone pressed the wrong button in executing a trade, which led to the running of the bears.

jesus christ wall street, get your shit together.

248 ArchangelMichael  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:59:30pm

re: #231 reine.de.tout

I'm not understanding what you're saying.
What's a "bad trade" and a trading error?

Trading two first-round picks, a second-round pick, Patrick Sapp and Eric Metcalf for Ryan Leaf.

/

249 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, May 6, 2010 12:59:56pm

re: #178 pingjockey

Walter L. Newton Soros just doesn't sing.

If it was Robert Newton you'd get Long John Silver Soros. That rolls off the tongue better and goes 'Arrrrrr' as well. :)

250 webevintage  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:00:29pm

re: #247 EastSider

jesus christ wall street, get your shit together.

No shit.
So an error by one guy sitting at a computer can tank the market?
Good thing it did not happen at say 3:15 on a Friday....

251 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:00:37pm

re: #242 lawhawk

CNBC: Trading Error at Major Firm Blamed for Market Plunge: Sources (Story Developing) = someone pressed the wrong button in executing a trade, which led to the running of the bears.

I wouldn't go rushing your cash into the market at this point..

252 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:00:39pm

re: #248 ArchangelMichael

Trading two first-round picks, a second-round pick, Patrick Sapp and Eric Metcalf for Ryan Leaf.

/

Babe Ruth from the Red Sox to the Yankees for money to fund a stage play!

WORST TRADE EVAH IN ANY SPORT,,, PERIOD

253 EastSider  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:01:11pm

re: #252 sattv4u2

Babe Ruth from the Red Sox to the Yankees for money to fund a stage play!

WORST TRADE EVAH IN ANY SPORT,,, PERIOD

you missed the "r" in your....oh, wait, Boston, right.

254 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:01:23pm

Some cash rich big companies may make out like a bandit. i.e. if PG bought back their stock to protect it's value at down say 15%, than watched it recover in minutes..

255 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:01:36pm

re: #253 EastSider

you missed the "r" in your...oh, wait, Boston, right.

:)

256 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:01:42pm

re: #247 EastSider

There have been these kinds of problems in the past and some stocks have had individual halts placed, but the markets are skittish over the situation in Greece and concerns that it's going to hit Portugal, Spain, and the UK next, so when the piece of bad news about PG hits (falsely, as it apparently turns out), then everyone goes into sell mode figuring that the other guys know something about the market and they don't want to be left holding the stock either.

Satt: the markets have been looking at Greece and dropping value all week as a result, the possible error with PG looks like it was the catalyst for the major selloff.

257 EastSider  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:02:46pm

re: #250 webevintage

No shit.
So an error by one guy sitting at a computer can tank the market?
Good thing it did not happen at say 3:15 on a Friday...

I think saying that there was a "guy by the computer" is an optimistic outlook on this.

258 Digital Display  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:03:07pm

Here are the stats..In 22 minutes the dow dropped 998 points

259 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:03:26pm

re: #256 lawhawk

Satt: the markets have been looking at Greece and dropping value all week as a result, the possible error with PG looks like it was the catalyst for the major selloff.

I understand that. I was just making the point that the market has been tanking for days. -100+ each day. So if we end up -250 today, take into account that at least half of that would have (probably) happened with or without this PG screw-up

260 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:03:38pm

re: #256 lawhawk

There have been these kinds of problems in the past and some stocks have had individual halts placed, but the markets are skittish over the situation in Greece and concerns that it's going to hit Portugal, Spain, and the UK next, so when the piece of bad news about PG hits (falsely, as it apparently turns out), then everyone goes into sell mode figuring that the other guys know something about the market and they don't want to be left holding the stock either.

Satt: the markets have been looking at Greece and dropping value all week as a result, the possible error with PG looks like it was the catalyst for the major selloff.

How many billions were won and lost over this error ?

261 EastSider  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:03:41pm

re: #258 HoosierHoops

Here are the stats..In 22 minutes the dow dropped 998 points

Lebron-esque!

262 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:05:19pm

re: #260 avanti

How many billions were won and lost over this error ?

NONE, actually

It's just in different places now under different names yes, I know that the "market" is down 3% today. But someone(s) got a bargain that they will re-coup when that item goes up or when they sell it

263 truth stick  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:05:29pm

Freddy Mac(ward of the taxpayers) only lost 6 Billion in the 1st quarter and want another 11 billion, and say they will probably be coming back for me. Can't we just shoot this dog

264 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:05:41pm

re: #258 HoosierHoops

The DJIA is made up of 30 stocks, that are weighted. A major drop in 1 could outweigh gains in the others. In this case, PG was down 25% in short order, causing the DJIA to drop 1% by itself (PG is weighted 3.9%). That leads to sells by the other stocks on the DJIA, feeding into the losses. When PG recovers in short order, so did the rest.

(my math may be off on the actual drop to the DJIA, but PG is weighted 3.9% according to the DJIA itself).

265 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:06:25pm

re: #166 EmmmieG

That would require more than three students and the history teacher to know what the Greek flag looks like.


Sort of like an Israeli flag that got stuck in the printer... /

266 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:06:38pm

Someone typed in a "B" for billion, not M (million) for the error. Citigroup is the suspect trader.

267 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:06:49pm

re: #263 truth stick

Freddy Mac(ward of the taxpayers) only lost 6 Billion in the 1st quarter and want another 11 billion, and say they will probably be coming back for me. Can't we just shoot this dog

gmta ,, from 12 hours ago

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

268 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:08:09pm

re: #206 JasonA

OT: Yeah, thanks for clearing that up for us:

Ex-Gay Leader's Male Escort: Actually, We Did Have Sex

His original statement that he hired him to "handle his bags" seems different in context.

269 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:08:30pm

OT - Raiders release JaMarcus.

270 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:08:41pm

re: #262 sattv4u2

NONE, actually

It's just in different places now under different names yes, I know that the "market" is down 3% today. But someone(s) got a bargain that they will re-coup when that item goes up or when they sell it

I'm taking about the short sellers that make money on dips, and the losers that sold their stock too cheap. Money moved from one to the other.

271 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:09:36pm

re: #270 avanti

I'm taking about the short sellers that make money on dips, and the losers that sold their stock too cheap. Money moved from one to the other.


ummm,, isn't that what I stated!?!

272 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:10:38pm

My copy of the LGF cookbook just arrived in the mail!

273 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:10:56pm

re: #260 avanti

Billions were made by those selling short - billions were lost by those selling below their purchase price.

Overall, billions exchanged hands, but if you didn't sell, then all you have are paper losses. They're only dollar losses if you actually sold stock/bonds/mutual funds below your purchase price.

274 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:11:25pm

re: #269 Stanley Sea

Gooolly, Sergeant Carter. Didn't see that coming.

Related to the thread?

Those of us who have blown every cent we've ever made aren't as anxious as those of you who just had that sudden drop.

275 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:11:38pm

re: #269 Stanley Sea

OT - Raiders release JaMarcus.

The former New York Giants linebacker Lawrence Taylor was arrested early Thursday morning and will be charged with third-degree rape involving a 15-year-old girl at a hotel in Montebello, NY, according to police.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

276 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:14:01pm

re: #273 lawhawk

Billions were made by those selling short - billions were lost by those selling below their purchase price.

Overall, billions exchanged hands, but if you didn't sell, then all you have are paper losses. They're only dollar losses if you actually sold stock/bonds/mutual funds below your purchase price.

OK, who lost money on the paper profit I made today if I sold ? The guy that sold the stock on the false dip lost some money , right ?

277 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:14:27pm

re: #273 lawhawk

Billions were made by those selling short - billions were lost by those selling below their purchase price.

Overall, billions exchanged hands, but if you didn't sell, then all you have are paper losses. They're only dollar losses if you actually sold stock/bonds/mutual funds below your purchase price.

Exactly. The last thing you want to do in that situation is sell. Whatever the catalyst is pushes things down in a hurry, then people covering their short positions bring it back up again. Deep breaths.

I still wouldn't throw any extra cash into the market right now. You think that the situation in Greece is comprehended by the markets now, but there's a lot more pain that could be felt in Europe that's not built in.

278 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:15:06pm

re: #275 sattv4u2

The former New York Giants linebacker Lawrence Taylor was arrested early Thursday morning and will be charged with third-degree rape involving a 15-year-old girl at a hotel in Montebello, NY, according to police.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]


He'll have to retire from Football and run for Governor in Georgia. /I wish it were a joke...

279 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:15:09pm

re: #263 truth stick

Freddy Mac(ward of the taxpayers) only lost 6 Billion in the 1st quarter and want another 11 billion, and say they will probably be coming back for me. Can't we just shoot this dog

No, the dog is a pet of the Democrats.

280 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:15:42pm

Looks like globalization was about as good an idea as the UN.

281 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:15:50pm

JaMarcus Russell was in a terrible situation. I'd like to see the Cowboys pick him up. I think he has great potential.

282 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:16:23pm

re: #276 avanti

OK, who lost money on the paper profit I made today if I sold ? The guy that sold the stock on the false dip lost some money , right ?

Depends

How much did he buy it for? For instance, if he bought it at $1 and the 'paper value" increased to $2 while he owened it and he sold it for $1.25 he actually MADE money (twenty five cents per share)

he did NOT 'lose" $.75 a share

283 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:16:24pm

re: #275 sattv4u2

The former New York Giants linebacker Lawrence Taylor was arrested early Thursday morning and will be charged with third-degree rape involving a 15-year-old girl at a hotel in Montebello, NY, according to police.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Well, there goes that "rehab from fame" special he was doing for A&E. He apparently has not reformed at all.

284 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:16:59pm

re: #283 Dark_Falcon

Well, there goes that "rehab from fame" special he was doing for A&E. He apparently has not reformed at all.


He's been a mess for years.

285 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:17:47pm

re: #276 avanti

OK, who lost money on the paper profit I made today if I sold ? The guy that sold the stock on the false dip lost some money , right ?

Depends

How much did he buy it for? For instance, if he bought it at $1 and the 'paper value" increased to $2 while he owened it and he sold it for $1.25 he actually MADE money (twenty five cents per share)

he did NOT 'lose" $.75 a share
PIMF

286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:18:33pm

re: #281 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm hoping those dings are from Cowboy fans.

287 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:18:42pm

Would anyone like to buy a barely used lottery ticket? It was once potentially worth millions.

288 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:18:49pm

re: #281 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

JaMarcus Russell was in a terrible situation. I'd like to see the Cowboys pick him up. I think he has great potential.

Cowboys already got their 60 million dollar man

289 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:19:17pm

re: #286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm hoping those dings are from Cowboy fans.

heh

290 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:19:23pm

re: #288 cliffster

Cowboys already got their 60 million dollar man

They can pick him up for about 30 bucks.

291 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:19:50pm

re: #286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm hoping those dings are from Cowboy fans.

Not really, but I'd hope that he'd do well somewhere.

292 Nimed  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:20:14pm

re: #210 reine.de.tout

re: #266 avanti

No fucking way:

In one of the most dizzying half-hours in stock market history, the Dow plunged nearly 1,000 points before paring those losses in what possibly could have been a trader error. According to multiple sources, a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade possibly involving Procter & Gamble, a component in the Dow.

Sources tell CNBC the firm in question that handled the erroneous trade is Citigroup. The bank said it has no evidence of a bad trade but is investigating the situation

reine, your stock just might be safe after all.

293 Digital Display  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:20:33pm

re: #281 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

JaMarcus Russell was in a terrible situation. I'd like to see the Cowboys pick him up. I think he has great potential.

My brother..Just a background..He was the last to work and the first to leave..And he was way over weight...And the worst thing of all..He has no accuracy to his passes..If he could pass he could wear a purple pimp hat on Saturday night in Down town Oakland..nobody would care..They would still pay him millions.. Russell is out..Nobody picks him up except as a charity case...

294 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:20:50pm

re: #288 cliffster

Cowboys already got their 60 million dollar man

With the size of that stadium $60 million barely covers the cost of scribbing chewing tobacco stains from the stairwells. /

295 sattv4u2  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:20:54pm

re: #286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm hoping those dings are from Cowboy fans.

I wouldn't mind the Patriots signing him. Spend a year or three learning how to be a professional QB from Brady ,,,, a take no shit coaching staff. Would be good for him (and the Pats)

296 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:20:55pm

re: #269 Stanley Sea

OT - Raiders release JaMarcus.

Poor Herman Munster.

297 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:21:34pm

re: #277 cliffster

I still wouldn't throw any extra cash into the market right now. You think that the situation in Greece is comprehended by the markets now, but there's a lot more pain that could be felt in Europe that's not built in.

One of the great advantages to not having any extra cash or anything at all in any "markets" is not having to worry about where to put it or what happens if the "markets" go south.

The "world of finance" has never made any sense to me and though its crash might take us all down, I will be sucked into the whirlpool only indirectly and late.

Who knew that poverty could be so comforting?

298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:22:33pm

re: #292 Nimed

Well, P&G is owned by the debbil and all.

299 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:23:00pm

re: #293 HoosierHoops

first step - broadside of a barn. then maybe try hitting a moving receiver. I don't think he's got step one covered yet.

300 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:23:07pm

re: #286 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm hoping those dings are from Cowboy fans.

Glad you said that... DOWNDING!

FUCK THE COWGIRLS!

(what a fantastic phrase)

301 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:23:23pm

re: #284 Stanley Sea

He's been a mess for years.

True, but it looked like he might recover. This will put the kabosh on that idea, and if true will send Taylor to prison.

302 avanti  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:23:46pm

re: #285 sattv4u2

Depends

How much did he buy it for? For instance, if he bought it at $1 and the 'paper value" increased to $2 while he owened it and he sold it for $1.25 he actually MADE money (twenty five cents per share)

he did NOT 'lose" $.75 a share
PIMF

I get that, but he lost some "potential" profit by selling it to me at the $1.25, and I made real profit if I resold it at $2.00 BTW, it's all magic to me. making money with money just seems so strange on some level.

303 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:25:19pm

re: #292 Nimed

re: #266 avanti

No fucking way:

In one of the most dizzying half-hours in stock market history, the Dow plunged nearly 1,000 points before paring those losses in what possibly could have been a trader error. According to multiple sources, a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade possibly involving Procter & Gamble, a component in the Dow.

Sources tell CNBC the firm in question that handled the erroneous trade is Citigroup. The bank said it has no evidence of a bad trade but is investigating the situation

reine, your stock just might be safe after all.

Having quite a bit of P&G stock, something fishy happened. It's a pretty stable stock and a very stable, forward looking company. All of my other stuff did their normal not a good day shifts.

304 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:25:34pm

re: #298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, P&G is owned by the debbil and all.

My lawyer is calling you.

305 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:25:59pm

I've got it!

Its a plot by George Soros to take the heat off Halliburton and Dick Cheney for the gulf oil spill. //

306 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:26:12pm

re: #300 Locker

Glad you said that... DOWNDING!

FUCK THE COWGIRLS!

(what a fantastic phrase)

You mean like this cowgirl?

307 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:27:42pm

It's also a great comfort to know that even with people dying in the streets in Athens and the world financial markets teetering on the brink of the abyss, people can still find meaning in talking about some damn sports figure or other.

Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic? So be it. Let the band play on!

308 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:30:51pm

re: #307 Cato the Elder

It's also a great comfort to know that even with people dying in the streets in Athens and the world financial markets teetering on the brink of the abyss, people can still find meaning in talking about some damn sports figure or other.

Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic? So be it. Let the band play on!

OK... I find it ironic yet appropriate that a guy who uses Cato The Elder as a nic comments about using gladiatorial combat to distract the populace from political and economic troubles.

309 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:31:08pm

re: #305 DaddyG

Stick with me here. I'm just thinking out loud. Nothing's been proven.

Are Dicks finger prints all over this.? Who new, 9 years ago, he would successfully block climate change legislation by holding secret meetings that enabled oil rigs to avoid having acoustical sensors placed on their rigs that would prevent catastrophic oil spills, then have Haliburton blow a rig just at the right moment.

Evil genius? Or act of God?

I'm just asking questions.

310 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:31:08pm

re: #307 Cato the Elder

It's also a great comfort to know that even with people dying in the streets in Athens and the world financial markets teetering on the brink of the abyss, people can still find meaning in talking about some damn sports figure or other.

Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic? So be it. Let the band play on!

You are comforted by strange things Cato.
//

311 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:32:21pm

Breaking:

Stock panic may have been caused by trader transcription error.

ccording to multiple sources, a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade possibly involving Procter & Gamble [PG 60.75 -1.41 (-2.27%) ], a component in the Dow.

312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:32:23pm

re: #307 Cato the Elder

Oh, okay. Sorry, you're right. Very troubling situation.

So, anybody know how much the Olympics hurt Greece? They had to borrow a gazillion dollars (IIRC) to put them on. That was only three years ago.

I'm guessing they lost a buttload of money on them.

Anybody know?

313 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:33:07pm

re: #309 Jeff In Ohio

Stick with me here. I'm just thinking out loud. Nothing's been proven.

Are Dicks finger prints all over this.? Who new, 9 years ago, he would successfully block climate change legislation by holding secret meetings that enabled oil rigs to avoid having acoustical sensors placed on their rigs that would prevent catastrophic oil spills, then have Haliburton blow a rig just at the right moment.

Evil genius? Or act of God?

I'm just asking questions.


Rove you magnificent Bastard!

(or is that)

Rahm you magnificent Bastard!

(and has anyone seen Rove and Rahm in the same room at the same time?)

314 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:33:53pm

re: #310 rwdflynavy

You are comforted by strange things Cato.
//

I am comforted by the fact that my name is not Mike Hunt.

315 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:34:37pm

re: #314 cliffster

I am comforted by the fact that my name is not Mike Hunt.

If you can't be an athlete, be an athletic supporter.

316 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:34:42pm

re: #314 cliffster

I like girls.

317 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:35:00pm

re: #315 rwdflynavy

If you can't be an athlete, be an athletic supporter.


Is there a Jacque Strap here? A Mister Jacque Strap?

318 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:37:21pm

re: #311 Alouette

Breaking:

Stock panic may have been caused by trader transcription error.

ccording to multiple sources, a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade possibly involving Procter & Gamble [PG 60.75 -1.41 (-2.27%) ], a component in the Dow.

Somebody's gonna get so fired.

319 lawhawk  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:37:22pm

re: #312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Anywhere from $11 billion to $15 billion, probably more - factoring in interest on the debt needed to do the various construction projects.

320 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:41:45pm

re: #318 Killgore Trout

Somebody's gonna get so fired.

The 7 Most Disastrous Typos Of All Time

Sorry son of a bitch" just doesn't come close to describing the financial judgment day Mizuho Securities experienced on December 15, 2005. It all started when they debuted the now hilariously legendary job recruitment company J-Com Co. with the intention of offering it at 610,000 yen per share ($5,041). A typo pegged it significantly below that. At one yen per share.

While this was a disastrous enough move on its own to warrant seppuku, the shit-meter spiked to Battlefield Earth-levels once it was revealed that Mizuho Securities had also offered 41 times the number of J-Com Co. shares actually in existence. It'd be like you selling more than 40 times the number of copies of The Amazing Spider-Man #1 that were printed for less than a penny apiece on eBay... and being forced to back up your offer in yen for any dissatisfied customers.

Whoops!

321 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:44:23pm

Hmm. I was just about to file a support ticket because the servers were getting really sluggish -- and it opened up right before I hit the submit button. Weird.

Some kind of clog in the tubes.

322 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:45:27pm

re: #318 Killgore Trout

Somebody's gonna get so fired.

And sued, don't forget sued.

323 sagehen  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:45:36pm

re: #105 webevintage

Why would they even blame Obama?
Or Bush?
Or anyone but Greece?
Or...of course it is freepers...

There's actually good reason to blame Goldman Sachs.

324 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:46:49pm

re: #321 Charles

Hmm. I was just about to file a support ticket because the servers were getting really sluggish -- and it opened up right before I hit the submit button. Weird.

Some kind of clog in the tubes.

No, the system just bowed down before you, Charles. Every computer knows you rock.

325 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:46:55pm

re: #321 Charles

Hmm. I was just about to file a support ticket because the servers were getting really sluggish -- and it opened up right before I hit the submit button. Weird.

Some kind of clog in the tubes.

I just reloaded the page and since I am on the infamous NMCI it is probably my fault.
//

326 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:47:50pm

I love how one typo can totally fuck our world up. That's awesome in a "so bad it's good" way.

327 cliffster  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:47:59pm

re: #321 Charles

Hmm. I was just about to file a support ticket because the servers were getting really sluggish -- and it opened up right before I hit the submit button. Weird.

Some kind of clog in the tubes.

Sorry - that was me. I had 50,000 LGF Spy windows open. I won't let it happen again.

328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:49:18pm

re: #319 lawhawk

The numbers also do not take infrastructure (rail/roads) into consideration.

I'm kind of hoping we don't host the world until about 2074.

329 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:49:30pm

re: #320 Jeff In Ohio

Heh. I was reading that today, too.

330 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:51:05pm

Right-Wing Extremists Take On Local Law Enforcement, Lose

Right-wing extremists who question the legitimacy of Barack Obama's presidency tried to take on local law enforcement recently -- and they seem to have come out on the losing end.

First, a Tennessee man was arrested after walking into his local county courthouse to try to effect a citizen's arrest of a grand jury foreman who had refused to investigate President Obama's legitimacy to serve -- an encounter partially caught on video. That enraged one Georgia-based member of the far-right OathKeepers group. Responding to a call from an extremist leader, he drove to Tennessee with an AK-47 in a bid to get his comrade released -- only to wind up getting arrested himself.

331 Daniel Ballard  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:52:11pm

re: #321 Charles

I noticed a delay logging in to linkage, closed and re opened the browser then all was well.

332 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:52:16pm

re: #323 sagehen

There's actually good reason to blame Goldman Sachs.

GS may have may have taken advantage of the situation in Greece but they sure didn't create it it.

About 30% of the Greek work force is employed by the government and for decades they have enjoyed paid holidays and benefits they cannot afford.

They cooked the books to get into the EU and refuse to enforce tax collection.

And that's just the beginning. This has been going on since the war ended in 1945.

333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:52:51pm

re: #330 Killgore Trout

As contagious, it appears, as Zombieism.

334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:54:23pm

re: #332 researchok

I'd like to have a real look at China's books.

Of course, after they were transposed into English (Arabic numbers, I guess)...

Of course, I'd have no idea what I was looking at.

I am betting China ain't as rich as I think they are.

335 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:55:10pm

re: #330 Killgore Trout

/The military always turns out true american heros >>

336 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:55:28pm

Now I have to go to work, secure in the knowledge that we're one dyslexic hedge-fund manager away from financial panic.

337 engineer cat  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:55:34pm

i wish the economic health of this country wasn't so closely tied to a bunch of emotionally volatile traders in wall st

338 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:55:45pm

re: #334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well they probably use arabic numbers, their numbering system is really inefficient >>

339 Randall Gross  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:56:02pm

re: #321 Charles

Hmm. I was just about to file a support ticket because the servers were getting really sluggish -- and it opened up right before I hit the submit button. Weird.

Some kind of clog in the tubes.

It wasn't just your servers either, I couldn't pull up a single finance site earlier w/o crashing firefox. Google choked I think

340 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:56:03pm

re: #335 windsagio

/The military always turns out true american heros >>

They've always turned out heroes and imbeciles. Just like my mom did.

341 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:56:46pm

re: #336 JasonA

Now I have to go to work, secure in the knowledge that we're one dyslexic hedge-fund manager away from financial panic.

He hit the button and said, "OH DOG!"

342 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:56:55pm

re: #235 avanti
It's not really so much up to the traders to panic.... their brokerages have built-in stop-loss computer kick-ins.

343 Randall Gross  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:56:56pm

back to the grind, more centers to build arrggg.

344 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:56:59pm

re: #334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'd like to have a real look at China's books.

Of course, after they were transposed into English (Arabic numbers, I guess)...

Of course, I'd have no idea what I was looking at.

I am betting China ain't as rich as I think they are.

I'd bet you're right.

A lot of the Chinese economy is a mirage, They won't let the Yuan float. They flout health and safety rules and in fact, even their production is limited, in reality.

They can move widgets to port fir export or they can move food to feed the cities. Even their 'new' infrastructure' cannot sustain both.

345 engineer cat  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:57:36pm

re: #311 Alouette

Breaking:

Stock panic may have been caused by trader transcription error.

ccording to multiple sources, a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade possibly involving Procter & Gamble [PG 60.75 -1.41 (-2.27%) ], a component in the Dow.

or as they say in pgming: one bad bit can kill ya

346 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:57:40pm

re: #334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Grammatical butchering. My work here is finished.

347 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:57:58pm

re: #340 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Which is just about the point, minus my snarkiness ;)

With hindsight its not even that interesting a conicidence tho, considering we're talking about the Oathkeepers.

348 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:58:13pm

re: #332 researchok

GS may have may have taken advantage of the situation in Greece but they sure didn't create it it.

About 30% of the Greek work force is employed by the government and for decades they have enjoyed paid holidays and benefits they cannot afford.

They cooked the books to get into the EU and refuse to enforce tax collection.

And that's just the beginning. This has been going on since the war ended in 1945.

I wish Greece could simply be declared insolvent and turned over to its creditors. Take Greece private.

/Joking

349 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:58:59pm

re: #336 JasonA
The hedge funds are the ones who will come out of this smelling like roses.
Somehow when all the new regs kick in, check and see: hedge funds are still largely exempt from scrutiny, except in a cosmetic way.

350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:59:34pm

re: #348 Dark_Falcon

(build condos on the Acropolis)

351 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 1:59:52pm

re: #348 Dark_Falcon

I wish Greece could simply be declared insolvent and turned over to its creditors. Take Greece private.

/Joking

Or a Disneyland.

352 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:00:04pm

re: #348 Dark_Falcon

I wish Greece could simply be declared insolvent and turned over to its creditors. Take Greece private.

/Joking

If there were ever an example of financial management 'enabling', Greece is it.

The unions have looted the Greek treasury and have just found out there is a floor.

They aren't happy.

353 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:00:33pm

re: #330 Killgore Trout

That enraged one Georgia-based member of the far-right OathKeepers group. Responding to a call from an extremist leader, he drove to Tennessee with an AK-47 in a bid to get his comrade released -- only to wind up getting arrested himself.

Georgia is one of the worlds largest exporters of nuts. They can have him.

354 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:00:43pm

re: #350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(build condos on the Acropolis)

LOL

355 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:00:52pm

re: #350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
No can do.... it's going to be a homeless shelter.//

356 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:01:17pm

re: #330 Killgore Trout

Right-Wing Extremists Take On Local Law Enforcement, Lose

Nirther Rescue = EPIC FAIL

357 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:01:33pm

re: #351 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Or a Disneyland.

Worker expenses way too high in Greece.

358 Randall Gross  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:01:44pm

Antoine Dufour -- Hide and Seek

359 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:03:44pm

Results coming in...Conservatives has kicked Gordon Brown to the curb.

360 Daniel Ballard  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:04:17pm

re: #358 Thanos

Ahh.... Nice.

361 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:04:18pm

re: #352 researchok

If there were ever an example of financial management 'enabling', Greece is it.

The unions have looted the Greek treasury and have just found out there is a floor.

They aren't happy.

That's just too damn bad. Germany should tell them "You want our money. you obey our terms. You don't and it'll be a default for you." Germany and France need to put their collective foot down on this one. Greece must comply or default.

362 Randall Gross  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:04:44pm

re: #360 Rightwingconspirator

Ahh... Nice.

Think it's a new one

363 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:05:33pm

re: #359 researchok

Results coming in...Conservatives has kicked Gordon Brown to the curb.

Excellent news, Cameron is exactly the kind of sane conservative the UK needs, and his example will help American conservatives leave lunacy behind.

364 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:06:39pm

re: #361 Dark_Falcon

That's just too damn bad. Germany should tell them "You want our money. you obey our terms. You don't and it'll be a default for you." Germany and France need to put their collective foot down on this one. Greece must comply or default.

Germany has to bail them out to save the Euro (and the EU).

The real test will be Spain. In any event, the EU is counting on the US to help with a huge American bailout.

The Greeks are not the only ones who will see tax hikes.

365 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:07:35pm

re: #363 Dark_Falcon

Excellent news, Cameron is exactly the kind of sane conservative the UK needs, and his example will help American conservatives leave lunacy behind.

I hope you are right. The evangelicals here won't take to Cameron at all.

366 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:08:01pm

re: #359 researchok
He should get down on his knees and thank God for his good fortune.
The next PM of Great Britain is going to be one hapless chap.

367 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:08:31pm

re: #363 Dark_Falcon

I do like how Clegg felt the need to tell how many women he'd slept with >>

368 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:08:34pm

re: #364 researchok

Germany has to bail them out to save the Euro (and the EU).

The real test will be Spain. In any event, the EU is counting on the US to help with a huge American bailout.

The Greeks are not the only ones who will see tax hikes.

The GOP should scotch that idea quickly, until the required austerity measures and in place. Again, these countries must reform or default. Anything else and this problem will just keep happening.

369 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:09:31pm

re: #363 Dark_Falcon
Winston Churchill reincarnated would have an uphill battle to cobble together an effective government over there in the coming months.

370 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:10:04pm

re: #366 tradewind

Why on Earth does anyone want the job these days.

Again, it appears that Chris Christie is doing what a leader does these days. He's gonna be thrown out on his ass as soon as they can figure out how to do it up in Jersey.

371 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:10:08pm

re: #369 tradewind

Well, given that he got freakin' creamed once the war was over, yeah.

372 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:10:15pm

re: #366 tradewind

He should get down on his knees and thank God for his good fortune.
The next PM of Great Britain is going to be one hapless chap.

Depends on how he plays it. A Cameron/Merkel alliance might be bad tasting medicine (reality) might help reshape the EU economies (with no apologies to the French. They saddled Germany with the Greek bailout).

373 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:10:16pm

re: #365 researchok

I hope you are right. The evangelicals here won't take to Cameron at all.

Fiscal and smaller-government conservatives will come to like him, though. And I prefer leaders evangelicals don't like these days.

374 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:10:54pm

re: #359 researchok

Results coming in...Conservatives has kicked Gordon Brown to the curb.

First good news of the day!

375 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:11:47pm

re: #373 Dark_Falcon

Fiscal and smaller-government conservatives will come to like him, though. And I prefer leaders evangelicals don't like these days.

I agree. I suspect Obama will get along better with Cameron than will the GOP politicos looking to the TP and evangelicals for support.

376 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:11:50pm

re: #370 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Yep.
At least he can say he was a tourniquet, and not a shiv.

377 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:11:58pm

There is a difference between your national debt being more than 10 years of the entire GDP and it being less than one years....

I'm not saying that we aren't nearly at our maximum conceivably reasonable debt limit, we are, but deficit spending will have to continue on for at least another 5-6 years now matter how severe the "cuts" we make are. Cuts by themselves are not going to do it, we also have to raise taxes, sorry but we spent the money now we have to pay it back.

It's sickening how these people can parade around with signs that say "cut taxes" when they are already paying the lowest taxes ever since WWII. You don't see them carrying signs to "means test" medicare or social security do you?

They still want all the benefits, they just don't want to have to pay for any of it, fuck them.

378 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:13:42pm

re: #377 ausador

That's the dirty little secret tho', nobody really wants to cut spending, they just don't want to pay for services >>

379 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:13:50pm

re: #368 Dark_Falcon

The GOP should scotch that idea quickly, until the required austerity measures and in place. Again, these countries must reform or default. Anything else and this problem will just keep happening.

Won't happen. The French orchestrated that deal months ago and Obama agreed to the bailout via the IMF (we are the biggest contributors). We and teh Germans will be left with the biggest bill.

380 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:14:16pm

re: #371 windsagio
Given that England is facing an internal battle that is just beginning, they could use him.
Probably stripped his pictures and references from their textbooks by now.//

381 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:14:25pm

re: #351 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Or a Disneyland.

Disney wanted to build an attraction in Greece, while promoting the movie "Hercules." Outraged Greeks rejected this crass commercialization of their beloved national deities.

382 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:15:26pm

re: #377 ausador

I would gladly accept a five percent tax increase if 100% the funds were directly wired to the guy we owe the money to.

I'm sure I'm not the only American that feels that way.

Of course with some kind of "spending freeze" language built in too.

383 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:15:54pm

re: #380 tradewind

actually I have to admit I find their election this time fascinating.

The much greater emphasis on the PM candidates makes things different and odd.

per Churchill, I think that his kind of government isn't really what they need right now. They need someone who would be able to work well with the EU at least at some level.

384 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:16:38pm

Cafferty: "Greece is a world class welfare state".

385 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:16:41pm

re: #382 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'd be for that; or hell, Nixon-era taxation even!

386 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:16:50pm

re: #377 ausador

re: #378 windsagio

That's the dirty little secret tho', nobody really wants to cut spending, they just don't want to pay for services >>


We just faced that in Georgia. State Government has been on an austerity program for a while. We're doing our best to do more with less. (This is a good thing). Then the legislature continued to cut taxes for special interest groups while counting on bonds and fees to balance the already suffering budget. We're #46 in the nation for per capita tax burden, for crying out loud we can use some revenues.

(I'm making moderate noises again - I know)

387 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:18:46pm

re: #386 DaddyG

Oh I understand. The taxation thing here is way beyond the barrier of sanity. Even if you believe in trickle-down (general you note, not specific), there has to be SOME money coming in >>

388 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:19:14pm

re: #385 windsagio

Just don't want the money touched by anybody in the Federal Government.

If we owe the money to "some guy named Eddie", just point the money to Eddie. Don't let Timmy or anyone else get a look at it.

389 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:19:26pm

re: #372 researchok
I don't think there's been much love lost between the two since the royal Wettins changed their name to Windsor.//

390 kingkenrod  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:19:34pm

re: #377 ausador

There is a difference between your national debt being more than 10 years of the entire GDP and it being less than one years...

I'm not saying that we aren't nearly at our maximum conceivably reasonable debt limit, we are, but deficit spending will have to continue on for at least another 5-6 years now matter how severe the "cuts" we make are. Cuts by themselves are not going to do it, we also have to raise taxes, sorry but we spent the money now we have to pay it back.

It's sickening how these people can parade around with signs that say "cut taxes" when they are already paying the lowest taxes ever since WWII. You don't see them carrying signs to "means test" medicare or social security do you?

They still want all the benefits, they just don't want to have to pay for any of it, fuck them.

I like your comment. But we don't have to raise taxes - we have a very progressive tax system already. The national debt will take care of itself in a generation if we restrict the growth of government to the rate of inflation. It won't be easy because past commitments will likely outpace inflation (social security and health care), but tax policy is quite sane as it is. Economic growth is the key, and you risk that by raising taxes.

391 reine.de.tout  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:19:51pm

Crews readying oil containment box

ON THE GULF OF MEXICO – Crews prepared Thursday to lower a 100-ton box they hoped would cut off most of the crude spewing from a blown-out well in the Gulf of Mexico, the urgency of their task underscored by oil that started washing up on delicate barrier islands.

If the concrete-and-steel box they plan to plunge a mile into the ocean works, it could collect as much as 85 percent of the oil leaking from the ocean floor. The technique has not been tried before at that depth.

392 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:20:00pm

re: #387 windsagio

Oh I understand. The taxation thing here is way beyond the barrier of sanity. Even if you believe in trickle-down (general you note, not specific), there has to be SOME money coming in >>


ideology is a hell of a drug

393 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:20:11pm

re: #388 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Aww, you pulled it back!

To go over the old rhetorical question, you're willing to give up all the infastructure and programs we can't afford anymore too? ;)

394 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:20:42pm

re: #384 researchok

Cafferty: "Greece is a world class welfare failed state".

fixed.

395 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:20:53pm

re: #392 WindUpBird

Hey WUB! Shower is broken again, is there anybody at your house? ;)

396 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:21:02pm

re: #387 windsagio

Oh I understand. The taxation thing here is way beyond the barrier of sanity. Even if you believe in trickle-down (general you note, not specific), there has to be SOME money coming in >>


I guess its easier to say "no taxes" than it is to explain "maximizing revenue while minimizing economic burden".

397 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:21:07pm

re: #393 windsagio

Aww, you pulled it back!

To go over the old rhetorical question, you're willing to give up all the infastructure and programs we can't afford anymore too? ;)

Roads: they come in handy

398 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:21:30pm

re: #394 Dark_Falcon

Its kind of interesting actually, Greece, Italy, and Spain have alwyas been like that (to a lesser degree France too, but not as bad). I always wondered what made them different than Germany and Scandanavia.

399 reine.de.tout  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:21:39pm

re: #391 reine.de.tout

Crews readying oil containment box

More:

The containment box has a dome-like structure at the top that's designed to act like a funnel and siphon the oil up through 5,000 feet of pipe and onto a tanker at the surface.

First, crews need to properly position the four-story structure with the help of a remote-controlled robotic submarine. A steel pipe will then be attached to a tanker at the surface and connected to the top of the dome to move the oil.

That process presents several challenges because of the frigid water temperature — about 42 degrees Fahrenheit — and exceptionally high pressure at those depths. Those conditions could cause the pipe to clog with what are known in the drilling industry as "ice plugs." To combat that problem, crews plan to continuously pump warm water and methanol down the pipe to dissolve the clogging.

They are also worried about the volatile cocktail of oil, gas and water when it arrives on the ship above. Engineers believe the liquids can be safely separated without an explosion.

Let's hope this works, without further explosions.

400 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:21:42pm

re: #390 kingkenrod

I like your comment. But we don't have to raise taxes - we have a very progressive tax system already. The national debt will take care of itself in a generation if we restrict the growth of government to the rate of inflation. It won't be easy because past commitments will likely outpace inflation (social security and health care), but tax policy is quite sane as it is. Economic growth is the key, and you risk that by raising taxes.

Nooo. Government creates wealth.

401 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:21:47pm

re: #395 windsagio

Hey WUB! Shower is broken again, is there anybody at your house? ;)

yeah, should be, but they may be sleeping

402 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:21:52pm

re: #386 DaddyG

re: #378 windsagio

We just faced that in Georgia. State Government has been on an austerity program for a while. We're doing our best to do more with less. (This is a good thing). Then the legislature continued to cut taxes for special interest groups while counting on bonds and fees to balance the already suffering budget. We're #46 in the nation for per capita tax burden, for crying out loud we can use some revenues.

(I'm making moderate noises again - I know)

In CA we've got Meg Whitman campaigning almost solely on the point that our state has too many state workers. Her examples include enough workers to fill the Rose Bowl, etc.

It's nice to find out right from the jump that a candidate has no problem lying to advance their own interest. California was 48th in the nation (2008 statistics) with regard to state workers per capita.

[Link: www.mercedsunstar.com...]

403 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:21:53pm

re: #396 DaddyG

It has emotional resonance!

404 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:21:54pm

re: #391 reine.de.tout

At what time are they going to try? We, as an entire nation, should stop whatever we are doing, wherever we are and pray, wish, hope, good vibrations, wishing well, and anything else that we can come up with for the success of the workers to contain this.

Gotta run.

405 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:21:59pm

re: #87 Walter L. Newton

Well... for those of us who have no investments, retirement plans, no money directly connected to the stock market, or have anything to do with the Euro... we can take one consolation in all this... maybe the Euro will be depressed enough against the dollar in 6 months or so that I will be able to afford to get back to Europe next winter.

I'm just pretending that I had investments, and got wiped out in the terrible market of 2010. Now I can start from scratch, and not feel ashamed!

406 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:22:23pm

re: #401 WindUpBird

ok I'll just keep trying to call then, I haven't been able to wash without standing ankle deep in dirty cold water for days, and I've had enough >>

407 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:22:47pm

re: #399 reine.de.tout

Those are some gutsy folks.

408 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:22:58pm

re: #393 windsagio

Kinda. I am not doing anything I can't afford these days.

409 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:23:19pm

re: #400 MandyManners

Nooo. Government creates wealth.

government creates the environment for a level playing field and the opportunity to create wealth

410 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:23:28pm

re: #388 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just don't want the money touched by anybody in the Federal Government.

If we owe the money to "some guy named Eddie Zhang", just point the money to Eddie Zhang. Don't let Timmy Papadopoulos or anyone else get a look at it.

FIFY

411 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:24:06pm

re: #402 Locker

That's what bugs me really, its almost gotten to the point where its a religion, and the politicians involved are Oral Roberts or Jimmy Swaggart.

412 Donna Ballard  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:24:17pm

Hi everyone and Happy Thursday Friday Eve to you all!

413 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:24:31pm

re: #382 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I would gladly accept a five percent tax increase if 100% the funds were directly wired to the guy we owe the money to.

I'm sure I'm not the only American that feels that way.

Of course with some kind of "spending freeze" language built in too.

Can't happen. Bureaucracy.

You need a hammer. You get a paycheck and go the hardware store to buy a hammer.

The country needs a hammer. You pay 5% more in taxes. Then someone has to manage 5% more money. Someone has to ask for teh hammer (even though everyone knows we need the hammer. That application has to be studied and approved 3 or 4 times. Then the money has to disbursed and further managed until it is finally disbursed and the hammer bought. Then there has to be oversight to make sure the hammer got delivered.

And we haven't talked about the price and bid process yet.

All those government employees have to get paid and have their pensions and government health care funded.

Government is not capable of thrift or the judicious use of taxpayer funding.

414 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:24:40pm

re: #407 MandyManners

Those are some gutsy folks.

Indeed. May God bless their work and give them victory.

415 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:25:43pm

re: #413 researchok

This is the 'antigovernment religion' I was referring to just upthread.

Its become a point of faith that they're totally incapable of any kind of efficiency.

416 engineer cat  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:25:54pm

USA Today/Gallup Poll. May 1-2, 2010

"Which comes closest to your view about prayer: praying is effective only if a person prays regularly, praying can be effective for those who do not pray regularly, or how often someone prays has no impact on how effective prayer is?"

Effective only if pray regularly 19%
Can be effective if do not pray regularly 14%
How often someone prays has no impact 61%
Must be clutching effigy of flying spaghetti monster 6%

"Which comes closer to your view about prayer: prayer only is effective for people who hold certain religious beliefs, or prayer can be effective no matter what a person believes in?"

Only for people who hold certain beliefs 15%
No matter what a person believes in 80%
Why do you hate the flying spaghetti monster? 6%

417 _RememberTonyC  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:26:09pm

re: #99 Charles

This is big trouble for Europe.

The only EU country that really has the capital to do anything to bail out Greece is Germany, and the German people aren't feeling very generous toward Greece.

the people of arizona can probably relate to those in germany ...

418 Daniel Ballard  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:26:57pm

Survey crazy?
What about us here... I say no way my phone gets shut down.

Texting during sex? Some say it's OK

It may sound ridiculous, but a few blogs today are considering this question:

Is it appropriate to send or receive text messages during sex?

The chatter is a spin-off from a 1,000-person survey, published in March, which found about one in 10 people younger than 25 say that they would not mind being "interrupted by an electronic message" during sex.

Among people older than 25, 6 percent said they would be fine with that inconvenience, according to the online survey by Retrevo, a website that reviews consumer electronics.

The survey reports a 4 percent error margin.

419 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:28:03pm

re: #383 windsagio
Some level is the relevant phrase, since it's likely the EU as we know it may actually pass from existence.

Leaving with this word for the day:
' We are All thankingourstarsthatwearenot Athenians Now './/

420 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:28:52pm

re: #419 tradewind

That's a freaking great exit message I have to admit.

I kinda wish you were staying tho', do ya really think this is gonna smash the EU?

421 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:30:11pm

re: #415 windsagio

This is the 'antigovernment religion' I was referring to just upthread.

Its become a point of faith that they're totally incapable of any kind of efficiency.

Inefficiency is expected. We do need oversight which is always costly. It is the level of inefficiency that is up for discussion.

Some government agencies are relatively efficient. Most are not and that is the problem.

422 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:30:41pm

re: #402 Locker
If we could just get rid of all those poor people and bastard children we wouldn't need social services. A Modest Proposal

/need I?

423 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:30:55pm

re: #391 reine.de.tout
Have they got those giant sponge thingys ringing the oyster beds and wetlands around LA up and running yet? Just in case...

424 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:31:12pm

re: #421 researchok

its good that you're pulling back from this

Government is not capable of thrift or the judicious use of taxpayer funding.

425 _RememberTonyC  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:32:17pm

I have been saying for years that the EU would never work as a kind of "United States of Europe." We should take note. And we should be proud. The "imitation" is never as good as the original.

426 tradewind  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:32:36pm

re: #420 windsagio
.... on the way out..... I don't really know, of course, but I have read opinions from people who are students of that kind of thing, and some of them think this is the end of the big experiment. I guess we'll see.
Stash a few Euros for a souvenir, in case.

427 Donna Ballard  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:32:36pm

Well, from what I've seen of the situation I would say the Greeks are probably wishing for the island of Santorini to blow again, at least that way the rest of Europe and the US would be jumping to their rescue with both feet and bank books instead of watching the country to implode with civil uprising over the austerity measures. I seriously think those folks are acting like spoiled children over a measure that will save their economy. Ya know, I won't be able to retire until I'm at least 70! I think the whole uprising thing is silly, if you ask me.

428 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:32:45pm

re: #409 WindUpBird

government creates the environment for a level playing field and the opportunity to create wealth


Government can really screw up the playing field too. Its not a matter of more or less government (like government is some kind of commodity) it is about making good governing decisions.

Right now some states are overburdened and some are underfunded. Everyone is struggling but a knee jerk response based on immovable ideology is not the best prescription for a multiplicity of ills.

429 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:33:35pm

re: #424 windsagio

its good that you're pulling back from this

I don't know if I'm 'pulling back'. Clarifying is more like it.

430 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:33:44pm

re: #427 Dragon_Lady

Well, from what I've seen of the situation I would say the Greeks are probably wishing for the island of Santorini to blow again, at least that way the rest of Europe and the US would be jumping to their rescue with both feet and bank books instead of watching the country to implode with civil uprising over the austerity measures. I seriously think those folks are acting like spoiled children over a measure that will save their economy. Ya know, I won't be able to retire until I'm at least 70! I think the whole uprising thing is silly, if you ask me.

As I said earlier, buncha' fucking Spayshul Snowfwakes.

431 reine.de.tout  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:33:52pm

re: #423 tradewind

Have they got those giant sponge thingys ringing the oyster beds and wetlands around LA up and running yet? Just in case...

Not sure, I'll have to look for it. I think they're geared up to deploy them, though, and the locals have been trained and BP has agreed to hire them.
I'll post more as I come across it.

432 Donna Ballard  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:35:26pm

re: #430 MandyManners

As I said earlier, buncha' fucking Spayshul Snowfwakes.

Sorry, I'm kinda late to the thread and I missed it. :(

433 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:36:05pm

re: #415 windsagio

This is the 'antigovernment religion' I was referring to just upthread.

Its become a point of faith that they're totally incapable of any kind of efficiency.

Employees can - not legislators

434 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:37:19pm

re: #382 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I would gladly accept a five percent tax increase if 100% the funds were directly wired to the guy we owe the money to.

I'm sure I'm not the only American that feels that way.

Of course with some kind of "spending freeze" language built in too.

Hundreds of polls have consistently shown that the majority of Americans are willing to pay slightly higher taxes as long as it was going to a good purpose and not wasted, (most often mentioned is "paying down the debt").

You are by no means alone, the polls say that the majority of citizens agree with you, the Tea Partiers do not, but they are in the minority.

435 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:37:28pm

re: #430 MandyManners

As I said earlier, buncha' fucking Spayshul Snowfwakes.

They think if they can seem nasty enough, Germany and the US will simply cough up the cash with only weak conditions. Thus, Germany needs to decide how much the EU means to it. Because if Greece cannot get the austerity plan through, then none of the remaining options are good.

436 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:37:34pm

re: #432 Dragon_Lady

8-)

437 engineer cat  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:37:39pm

re: #415 windsagio

This is the 'antigovernment religion' I was referring to just upthread.

Its become a point of faith that they're totally incapable of any kind of efficiency.

and the corresponding idea that business is always efficient is highly overrated as well

438 MandyManners  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:39:05pm

re: #435 Dark_Falcon

They think if they can seem nasty enough, Germany and the US will simply cough up the cash with only weak conditions. Thus, Germany needs to decide how much the EU means to it. Because if Greece cannot get the austerity plan through, then none of the remaining options are good.

Well, they've passed it. It's gonna' be interesting to see them implement it. If I were in charge, I'd impose a curfew and lock up anyone who didn't obey it. Well, with certain exceptions, like going to work.

439 DaddyG  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:40:19pm

re: #437 engineer dog

and the corresponding idea that business is always efficient is highly overrated as well


Converting from Corporate slime to Government bureaucrat has really opened my eyes. My current government agency is run much more efficiently than any large corporation I've ever been a part of. The problem is you can't start charging more per sale to make up the difference when it comes to food stamps, or police protection, or highway building, or consumer fraud protection, or ...

440 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:40:43pm

re: #433 DaddyG

It's a constant battle (We're publicly funded, so believe me I know all about it). I just find the defeatist 'we're screwed anywys, lets just kill it!' attitude kind of frustrating.

441 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:41:56pm

re: #402 Locker

In CA we've got Meg Whitman campaigning almost solely on the point that our state has too many state workers. Her examples include enough workers to fill the Rose Bowl, etc.

It's nice to find out right from the jump that a candidate has no problem lying to advance their own interest. California was 48th in the nation (2008 statistics) with regard to state workers per capita.

[Link: www.mercedsunstar.com...]

Granted, we have a hell of a lot of capitas.

442 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:43:55pm

re: #418 Rightwingconspirator

Survey crazy?
What about us here... I say no way my phone gets shut down.

Texting during sex? Some say it's OK

It may sound ridiculous, but a few blogs today are considering this question:

Is it appropriate to send or receive text messages during sex?

The chatter is a spin-off from a 1,000-person survey, published in March, which found about one in 10 people younger than 25 say that they would not mind being "interrupted by an electronic message" during sex.

Among people older than 25, 6 percent said they would be fine with that inconvenience, according to the online survey by Retrevo, a website that reviews consumer electronics.

The survey reports a 4 percent error margin.

There is a picture in some medieval manuscript of a woman working a drop spindle during sex.

That said, what is the world coming to?

443 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:44:15pm

re: #441 SanFranciscoZionist

Granted, we have a hell of a lot of capitas.

True. The paragraph I find most illuminating is this one:

In fact, if you take out prison employees, the number of state employees per 1,000 Californians has actually decreased in the last 20 years.

444 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:44:42pm

re: #442 SanFranciscoZionist

That's a hell of an indifferent lover!

445 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:45:26pm

on an old sujbect also; The British political parties have way cooler symbols than ours do >

446 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:47:11pm

re: #445 windsagio

on an old sujbect also; The British political parties have way cooler symbols than ours do >

Well I think the Green Party logo is pretty cool...

447 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:49:35pm

re: #438 MandyManners

Well, they've passed it. It's gonna' be interesting to see them implement it. If I were in charge, I'd impose a curfew and lock up anyone who didn't obey it. Well, with certain exceptions, like going to work.

I agree. And I'd post heavy guard forces at large banks. They would have orders to shoot to kill in the event of arson attacks. When you're dealing with terror attacks like that, it's necessary to show a willingness to use leathal force if needed.

448 windsagio  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:49:39pm

Also, you wouldn't think it, but Cornwall is freakin' liberal for some reason >

449 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:50:04pm

re: #413 researchok

Can't happen. Bureaucracy.

You need a hammer. You get a paycheck and go the hardware store to buy a hammer.

The country needs a hammer. You pay 5% more in taxes. Then someone has to manage 5% more money. Someone has to ask for teh hammer (even though everyone knows we need the hammer. That application has to be studied and approved 3 or 4 times. Then the money has to disbursed and further managed until it is finally disbursed and the hammer bought. Then there has to be oversight to make sure the hammer got delivered.

And we haven't talked about the price and bid process yet.

All those government employees have to get paid and have their pensions and government health care funded.

Government is not capable of thrift or the judicious use of taxpayer funding.

I made a really good living doing contracts for the GSA and it doesn't always work like that. Giving them a "Not to Exceed" price while telling them that you will only mark up materials by 15% and Labor by 10% works quite well.

Your giving them a maximum price for the job that will almost always be lower than any of the competitors fixed bids. Your also saying that you will probable charge them less than that. They get to see all your receipts for materials and the time sheets of your employees. You charge them what it cost you to do the job plus the agreed mark up percentages.

If your not greedy you can earn a decent living doing that, government work made up about 65% of my contracting business. I didn't rip them off and I never had to jump through any of the layers of hoops you are talking about. Yeah, there was always a shit load of paperwork but that is true of any commercial job.

Have you ever done any government contracting or are you just repeating what "you heard" from other people badmouthing the government procurement process?

450 Donna Ballard  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:55:49pm

Well boys, girls and Lizards I'm still tired from doing my parents house work yesterday so I'm gonna go have a quick nap. Type to you all later, Keep Smiling! :-)

451 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 2:58:04pm

re: #449 ausador

I made a really good living doing contracts for the GSA and it doesn't always work like that. Giving them a "Not to Exceed" price while telling them that you will only mark up materials by 15% and Labor by 10% works quite well.

Your giving them a maximum price for the job that will almost always be lower than any of the competitors fixed bids. Your also saying that you will probable charge them less than that. They get to see all your receipts for materials and the time sheets of your employees. You charge them what it cost you to do the job plus the agreed mark up percentages.

If your not greedy you can earn a decent living doing that, government work made up about 65% of my contracting business. I didn't rip them off and I never had to jump through any of the layers of hoops you are talking about. Yeah, there was always a shit load of paperwork but that is true of any commercial job.

Have you ever done any government contracting or are you just repeating what "you heard" from other people badmouthing the government procurement process?

I was going to bitch but this is a much more reasonable description. I work for the state, in finance. I write contract, purchase order, budgeting apps etc.

The systems to purchase goods and services work well, move along quickly and the "lowest bid" system prevents us from selecting some contractor because we like their football team or because they are Jimmy's cousin.

The bid process is involved but that is to ensure that goods and services your tax money pay for are purchase for the lowest cost available from a vendor who is reliable and capable.

The biggest problem with regard to money/budgeting at least in California is all the outsourcing to private industry. All though the republicans, papers and complaining constituents never seem to acknowledge this problem.

Additionally our Union, which the same group of people hate, does everything they can to reduce the outsourcing of work which can be completed by existing state workers... to a great amount of resistance.

Still, the general California voter has no problem blaming the "lazy and ineffective" state worker who is sitting right next to a private contractor doing the same damn job for 10 times the cost.

452 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 3:07:57pm

re: #449 ausador

I made a really good living doing contracts for the GSA and it doesn't always work like that. Giving them a "Not to Exceed" price while telling them that you will only mark up materials by 15% and Labor by 10% works quite well.

Your giving them a maximum price for the job that will almost always be lower than any of the competitors fixed bids. Your also saying that you will probable charge them less than that. They get to see all your receipts for materials and the time sheets of your employees. You charge them what it cost you to do the job plus the agreed mark up percentages.

If your not greedy you can earn a decent living doing that, government work made up about 65% of my contracting business. I didn't rip them off and I never had to jump through any of the layers of hoops you are talking about. Yeah, there was always a shit load of paperwork but that is true of any commercial job.

Have you ever done any government contracting or are you just repeating what "you heard" from other people badmouthing the government procurement process?

My remarks come from an experience I became aware of with a company that was attempting to get a government contract.

Long story short, they took the (requested) plans and turned them over to a competitor who built the identical product at 75% more than the originator. The company went to court (some of ideas used were patented) and sued the government. In the end and after a really costly legal expense, the original company got the contract- but only after they agreed not to sue the govt or his competitor.

These practices are rife in the defense industry.

453 Locker  Thu, May 6, 2010 3:11:11pm

re: #452 researchok

My remarks come from an experience I became aware of with a company that was attempting to get a government contract.

Long story short, they took the (requested) plans and turned them over to a competitor who built the identical product at 75% more than the originator. The company went to court (some of ideas used were patented) and sued the government. In the end and after a really costly legal expense, the original company got the contract- but only after they agreed not to sue the govt or his competitor.

These practices are rife in the defense industry.

Maybe but they aren't rife in my state organization. No way that would happen here.

454 researchok  Thu, May 6, 2010 3:13:50pm

re: #452 researchok

I'm sure that is the case. I have no experience with state bureaucrats.

Still, there are lots of reasons there are federal whistle blower laws.

455 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, May 6, 2010 3:49:59pm

re: #454 researchok

I'm sure that is the case. I have no experience with state bureaucrats.

Still, there are lots of reasons there are federal whistle blower laws.

I did work for the GSA, the FAA, the Air Force (Elmendorf), the Army (Fort Richardson), the TSA, the University of Alaska, the Municipality of Anchorage, the Anchorage school district, the city of Bethel, the city of Nome, the North Slope Bureau school district, and many other government agencies during my 17 years in Alaska.

I never saw any sign of the type of wheels within wheels that you are talking about, I'm sure there is probably some amount of that in the weapons procurement system, or at least many swear that there is. I'm just saying that I never saw it or had anyone ask me for a "kickback" before approving my contract proposal.

Admittedly as a non-union shop I only bid on jobs in the mid 6 figures or smaller, otherwise I would have had the union picketing my jobs. Maybe I just wasn't a big enough fish for them to get me involved in their ongoing pervasive and never ending corruption...sigh. :(

456 palomino  Thu, May 6, 2010 3:52:52pm

re: #24 rwdflynavy

Violent Movie Declares War on Arizona for Immigration Law

The Fox headline says there's a "declaration of war." But there's no indication that the director or anyone else actually used that term.

As for the movie, it stars Don Johnson and Steven Seagal. Take it seriously at your own risk.

457 Dr. Shalit  Thu, May 6, 2010 6:12:51pm

Lookit -

Greece is bankrupt, as is my State of NJ. We and Greece will have to EAT POOP for a few years. Both can emerge on the other side as healed. My bet is on NJ. Debate? -S-

By the way - comin' atcha on a MAC - MacBookPro - 17" Late 2007 - for the first time. Prior owner got 1 Mo. Rent - $795 - for this machine a fair price so far as I can see. I feel like Jerry Lewis - in a Think Pink Mode - SO Many Sons -
Make the Next one a Daughter. So now, I communicate with "My Girl" unless the tenant can come up with the $795 in which case it will be returned. In any case, 'Doze to Mac gets one's juices going again - AND - I like iTunes better in windows than in MAC after trying both. Discussion?

-S-

458 Bob Levin  Thu, May 6, 2010 11:21:55pm

re: #57 freetoken

I apologize for coming so late to this thread, but I entered links about this crisis last week, and likened it to the dynamics that started WWI, events spinning out of control as diplomats did nothing. The EU scheduled a meeting for May 10th, next week, as if nothing could have occurred of significance between the Greek bonds going junk and May 10.

As Lawhawk already said, tomorrow will probably be a bounce back--but the problem is NOT simply European. It is also American, and there isn't any blame Obama or blame Bush that brings us closer to solving the problem--unless you believe that asking lawyers to fix an economic problem is like asking a roofer to fix the plumbing. (I do hold that belief.)

The problem comes from a lack of definition regarding wealth. It's not gold and hasn't been for a while. And while the price of gold goes up when no one is selling, you will see gold drop like....and ounce of gold (32 ft per second per second) when, like a contagion, everyone decides to sell.

The fact is that wealth is energy. Today fossil fuels. And anyone who can 'harvest energy', or control the technology to process it, controls wealth and therefore politics. Thirty five years ago the US should have launched a 'space program' type of scientific focus concentrating on developing new energy and new energy technology. Because, as it stands now, the Western world, for the most part, is consuming wealth, not producing it. It is losing industry and business, not adding to it.

If it weren't for Bill Gates and the Apple Steves, we might be tottering on the edge of the third world, starting over like India.

459 ryannon  Fri, May 7, 2010 4:12:38am

re: #398 windsagio

Its kind of interesting actually, Greece, Italy, and Spain have alwyas been like that (to a lesser degree France too, but not as bad). I always wondered what made them different than Germany and Scandanavia.

Protestant work ethic.

460 ryannon  Fri, May 7, 2010 4:25:28am

re: #430 MandyManners

As I said earlier, buncha' fucking Spayshul Snowfwakes.

They've been around a hell of a long time. In fact, they're the foundation of many of the institutions and ideals of our own civilization.

Spayshul snowfwakes?

Nope, just ordinary folks like you and I - used to a very different way of working and having leisure time. What the people are pissed about is the disconnect between the political class - who they hold responsible for the bankruptcy of the economy - and the population, which is being asked to give up a number of acquired rights and advantages - none of which are particularly out of line with those being enjoyed by other members of the EU.

And beware of media distortion: 99.9% of the population is going about its business just like they always did.

461 ryannon  Fri, May 7, 2010 4:28:04am

Ah, that invigorating Dead Thread smell!


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