As a longtime humorist for such outlets as National Lampoon and The Onion who has written a great deal of blasphemy against all three of the largely interchangeable monotheist religions, and who has worked with a great number of other humorists over the years, and who has in fact lived in a country with a near-majority Muslim population and who once shared an apartment with a devout Sunni, I can assure this commenter and everyone else that it has never once crossed my mind that I might actually be killed for mocking the Ismaili branch of the global Yahweh/Elohim/Allah cult, and I sincerely doubt that a single American humorist has ever refrained from writing a single line out of concern that he might be killed for it.

Yes, that's all one sentence, folks.

re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist

LOL I noticed that. It made my eyes cross and got me breathless just reading it.

Uhh, I thought that you kind of liked his stuff and that you were collaborators on a few recent projects. Now he is Persona-non-grata too or something?

Damn your picky Charles... :p

/after all no one is actually perfect.

re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, say that out loud without taking a breath.

But nobody could crank out run-on sentences like David Foster Wallace.

why don't fundamentalist christians stop complaining about getting made fun of exclusively, and start making fun of islam themselves?

oh wait, that requires a sense of humor to begin with.

re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist

As a longtime humorist for such outlets as National Lampoon and The Onion who has written a great deal of blasphemy against all three of the largely interchangeable monotheist religions, and who has worked with a great number of other humorists over the years, and who has in fact lived in a country with a near-majority Muslim population and who once shared an apartment with a devout Sunni, I can assure this commenter and everyone else that it has never once crossed my mind that I might actually be killed for mocking the Ismaili branch of the global Yahweh/Elohim/Allah cult, and I sincerely doubt that a single American humorist has ever refrained from writing a single line out of concern that he might be killed for it.

Yes, that's all one sentence, folks.

Fueled by caffeine!

I don’t know what atheist jihad entails yet, but I suspect it will involve drinking more coffee, and I’ve already had like a whole big pot of coffee today, so look out, world!

re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist

As a longtime humorist for such outlets as National Lampoon and The Onion who has written a great deal of blasphemy against all three of the largely interchangeable monotheist religions, and who has worked with a great number of other humorists over the years, and who has in fact lived in a country with a near-majority Muslim population and who once shared an apartment with a devout Sunni, I can assure this commenter and everyone else that it has never once crossed my mind that I might actually be killed for mocking the Ismaili branch of the global Yahweh/Elohim/Allah cult, and I sincerely doubt that a single American humorist has ever refrained from writing a single line out of concern that he might be killed for it.

Yes, that's all one sentence, folks.

Look up the "story of Cuthbert Hatch" if you want to see the longest single sentence ever written that is grammatically correct.

re: #5 SpaceJesus

why don't fundamentalist christians stop complaining about getting made fun of exclusively, and start making fun of islam themselves?

oh wait, that requires a sense of humor to begin with.

Also, they actually are afraid that Muslims might kill them. They'd rather some secular comedian make fun of Islam and get killed. Then they could laugh at the jokes, and be irate about Islamic violence, PLUS, still be alive.

re: #3 ausador

Uhh, I thought that you kind of liked his stuff and that you were collaborators on a few recent projects. Now he is Persona-non-grata too or something?

Damn your picky Charles... :p

/after all no one is actually perfect.

Don't tell me I need to start using sarc tags on my posts.

I once saw a piece by a Palestinian-American comedian from California who went to Israel and reported back. His report was that everyone involved in the conflict looks the same. Also, we all look like Mexicans. He wasn't sure this would get us anywhere, but thought it worth mentioning.

Important life lessons you can learn from the Simpsons, just make fun of everybody and you'll never (well hardly ever) have to say you're sorry.

re: #11 jamesfirecat

Important life lessons you can learn from the Simpsons, just make fun of everybody and you'll never (well hardly ever) have to say you're sorry.

Didn't work too well for Matt Stone and Trey Parker after 200 & 201.

re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist

I once saw a piece by a Palestinian-American comedian from California who went to Israel and reported back. His report was that everyone involved in the conflict looks the same. Also, we all look like Mexicans. He wasn't sure this would get us anywhere, but thought it worth mentioning.

mexican juice?

re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist

I once saw a piece by a Palestinian-American comedian from California who went to Israel and reported back. His report was that everyone involved in the conflict looks the same. Also, we all look like Mexicans. He wasn't sure this would get us anywhere, but thought it worth mentioning.

Wow...

So horribly tasteless.

The only funny joke I ever heard along similar lines was from a comic of Indian decent...

"Please note I'm not Muslim, I'm Hindu. They can't eat pork we can't eat beef. They are connected with 9-11... we are connected with 7-11..."

And that only worked because he was saying it rather than me...

Side-note:
Barrett must be young iffn' he wuz takin' Vicodin as a teenager!

Friday is mind numbing data entry day.

With background noise. Click listen now.

re: #16 Racer X

Friday is mind numbing data entry day.Click listen now.

I thought it was Hawaiian Shirt Day.

So does my polytheistic belief get a pass then?

There used to be a Muslim humor page, kind of like The Onion, called "IslamicaNews.com (News You Can Lose)"

It is gone now, but they used to have some pretty funny article, like "Local Man Blames His Traffic Tickets on the Jews" and "Muslim Gal Wears Orange Headscarf at her Hooters Job"

re: #19 Alouette

There used to be a Muslim humor page, kind of like The Onion, called "IslamicaNews.com (News You Can Lose)"

It is gone now, but they used to have some pretty funny article, like "Local Man Blames His Traffic Tickets on the Jews" and "Muslim Gal Wears Orange Headscarf at her Hooters Job"

Traffic accident caused by flagrant display of ankle...

hahah tags: vicodin

Lol.

re: #9 Charles

Don't tell me I need to start using sarc tags on my posts.

Wouldn't hurt for the sake of those of us that are sarcasm impaired... ;)

Pbbbtt!

Echo chamber sure is quiet for a Friday evening.

;-)

Aaarrrghhh!

Megyn Kelly interviews Ron Paul on the Greece crisis.
Asked whether the crisis can spread to the US, Paul says,
"“Absolutely, there’s going to be anger. There’s going to be riots in the streets as well. But this is all a consequence of the fact of why and how government could spend like this. It’s because they don’t have sound money."

The perfect storm of crazy. Buy Gold! (Credit, debit and printed Federal Reserve notes accepted).

re: #24 Racer X

Echo chamber sure is quiet for a Friday evening.

;-)

If you want I can post some stuff about how it looks like our economy is doing better and only 20% of our over half a million new jobs are do to the census.

Would that make your evening?

re: #26 jamesfirecat

If you want I can post some stuff about how it looks like our economy is doing better and only 20% of our over half a million new jobs are do to the census.

Would that make your evening?

Over quarter of a million new jobs!

re: #25 Shiplord Kirel

Aaarrrghhh!

Megyn Kelly interviews Ron Paul on the Greece crisis.
Asked whether the crisis can spread to the US, Paul says,
"“Absolutely, there’s going to be anger. There’s going to be riots in the streets as well. But this is all a consequence of the fact of why and how government could spend like this. It’s because they don’t have sound money."

[Video]The perfect storm of crazy. Buy Gold! (Credit, debit and printed Federal Reserve notes accepted).

NUKE THE GOLD!

Well the LGF cookbook didn't arrive today...I guess I can't wait
* Queue to some weird screen wipe *
Cookbook Dreaming...Mama's and Papa's

All the leaves are brown
(All the leaves are brown)
And the sky is gray.
(And the sky is gray).
I've been waiting for the cookbook
Waiting for the cookbook
(To arrive today)
On a springtime day.
(On a springtime day).

I'd be safe and warm
(I'd be safe and warm)
if I was in L.A.
(If I was in L.A.)
California cookbook'
(California cookbook') on such a springtime day.

Stopped in to a church I passed along the way.
Well I got down on my knees
(got down on my knees)
And I pretend to pray.
(I pretend to pray).
You know my mailman just likes to play.
(mailman likes the cold).
He knows I'm gonna stay.
(knows I'm gonna stay).
California cookbook'
(California cookbook) on such a springtime day.

re: #28 Varek Raith

NUKE THE GOLD!

You're forgetting one thing. If I fail to report, 008 replaces me.

re: #26 jamesfirecat

If you want I can post some stuff about how it looks like our economy is doing better and only 20% of our over half a million new jobs are do to the census.

Would that make your evening?

20%?

Fer reals?

re: #25 Shiplord Kirel

Aaarrrghhh!

Megyn Kelly interviews Ron Paul on the Greece crisis.
Asked whether the crisis can spread to the US, Paul says,
"“Absolutely, there’s going to be anger. There’s going to be riots in the streets as well. But this is all a consequence of the fact of why and how government could spend like this. It’s because they don’t have sound money."

[Video]

The perfect storm of crazy. Buy Gold! (Credit, debit and printed Federal Reserve notes accepted).

Buying gold seems like a really dumb idea to me. If the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and you are holding gold bullion as your hedge against economic disaster, who do you expect will have enough cash to buy it from you?

re: #31 Racer X

20%?

Fer reals?

If you trust Washington Monthly...
[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...]

I did the math 290,000 new jobs, with 231,000 from the private sector = 59,000 census jobs = 59,000/290,000 = 0.20344 and some other fiddly bits.

time to go, peeps. have a good one.

I'm waiting for the market to dip a little more. I didn't grab a few stocks I should have last time, and am hoping for a second chance.

Greedy capitalist bastard that I am.

re: #29 HoosierHoops

While you wait, here's a few main dishes to anticipate:

Aglio e Olio
Alligator Jambalaya
Baked Parmesan Chicken
Bang Cock, Pat Thigh, Rinse/Lather/Repeat (pad thai)
Beef with Cactus Pieces
Blue Monday Fettuccine
Braised Osso Bucco
Cajun ‘Popcorn’ shrimp
Cajun Chicken Pasta
Caribbean Lamb Curry
Champagne Shrimp
Cheese Blintzes
Chello (Persian Rice)
Chicken Alfredo Lasagna
Chicken Cacciatore.
Chicken Fried Rice
Chicken Shwarma
Chicken Tikka
Chileqillas (Mexican Lasagna)
Chinese Barbecued Pork
Crawfish/Shrimp Etouffee
Eggs a la Madame Begue
Haggis Pakora
Hot Chicken Curry
Israeli Fried Chicken
Jamaican Jerk Barbecued Ribs
Khoreshe Gheymeh
Khoresht-e Fesenjan (Chicken or duck in pomegranate sauce)
Khoresht-e Ghormeh Sabzi (Stewed lamb with black-eyed peas)
Kiteroo's Ziploc Omelets
Lamb Vindaloo
Lamb Roast, Big Papa style
Lasagna di BubbleheadII
Latkes (potato pancakes)
Lemon-Prosciutto Risotto

...and that's just main dishes up to "L"

re: #35 Racer X

I'm waiting for the market to dip a little more. I didn't grab a few stocks I should have last time, and am hoping for a second chance.

Greedy capitalist bastard that I am.

Did you try typing all "b"s into an Entrade order just to see what happens? :p

re: #32 _RememberTonyC

Buying gold seems like a really dumb idea to me. If the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and you are holding gold bullion as your hedge against economic disaster, who do you expect will have enough cash to buy it from you?

Er, Tony, I'm not really a gold bug though it I had any I would cheerfully sell it for enough of what Paul calls counterfeit fiat money.
See here.

re: #25 Shiplord Kirel

Aaarrrghhh!

Megyn Kelly interviews Ron Paul on the Greece crisis.
Asked whether the crisis can spread to the US, Paul says,
"“Absolutely, there’s going to be anger. There’s going to be riots in the streets as well. But this is all a consequence of the fact of why and how government could spend like this. It’s because they don’t have sound money."

[Video]The perfect storm of crazy. Buy Gold! (Credit, debit and printed Federal Reserve notes accepted).

Yeah, Ron Paul has been predicting civil unrest here for a while. It's why the militias and Tea Parties love him so much.

re: #28 Varek Raith

NUKE THE GOLD!

wan't one of the Jame Bond movies about that? it's been a long time...

re: #40 brookly red

wan't one of the Jame Bond movies about that? it's been a long time...

Do you expect me to talk?

re: #41 jamesfirecat

Do you expect me to talk?

No Mr. Bond I expect you to die.

re: #32 _RememberTonyC

Buying gold seems like a really dumb idea to me. If the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and you are holding gold bullion as your hedge against economic disaster, who do you expect will have enough cash to buy it from you?

cash? no, no, beer...

re: #40 brookly red

wan't one of the Jame Bond movies about that? it's been a long time...

Gold Finger, the Chineses (although they didn't ever identify them, but they sure looked purposefully Chinese).

re: #35 Racer X

I'm waiting for the market to dip a little more. I didn't grab a few stocks I should have last time, and am hoping for a second chance.

Greedy capitalist bastard that I am.

/wait another week and by Greece...

re: #32 _RememberTonyC

Buying gold seems like a really dumb idea to me. If the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and you are holding gold bullion as your hedge against economic disaster, who do you expect will have enough cash to buy it from you?

You've got it all wrong. When the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and society goes down the tubes, you don't sell your gold for cash.

You take that gold ingot you bought for $1200 and trade it for a pound of rice and a roll of toilet paper.

/BUY GOLD!

re: #36 jaunte

While you wait, here's a few main dishes to anticipate:

Aglio e Olio
Alligator Jambalaya
(I ate Alligator tail once..Tastes like chicken! Not! Tasted like a dog's chew toy)
Baked Parmesan Chicken
(5 stars I'm sure)
Bang Cock, Pat Thigh, Rinse/Lather/Repeat (pad thai)
( The first XXX recipe at LGF)
Beef with Cactus Pieces
Blue Monday Fettuccine
Braised Osso Bucco
Cajun ‘Popcorn’ shrimp
Cajun Chicken Pasta
( Drooling )
Caribbean Lamb Curry
(I have never eat'n lamb..Save the lamb!)
Champagne Shrimp
(Tailgating on a Sunday morning...That's what I'm talking about!)
*wink*

re: #46 Slumbering Behemoth

You've got it all wrong. When the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and society goes down the tubes, you don't sell your gold for cash.

You take that gold ingot you bought for $1200 and trade it for a pound of rice and a roll of toilet paper.

/BUY GOLD!

No you fool, gold is heavy, you walk up poor fool with the rice, use the shininess of the gold to blind him and then slam the gold brick into his face and while he's out cold take the rice and run!

re: #44 ausador

I just happened to reread the book of Goldfinger.

They're supposed to be Korean.

BTW, Ian Fleming REALLY hates Koreans for some reason.

re: #25 Shiplord Kirel

I do believe Luap Nor said the US government is going to fall.

I also believe he has been going way too far with the eyebrow plucking. His right one is almost gone.

re: #40 brookly red

wan't one of the Jame Bond movies about that? it's been a long time...

And which lizardoid has the same make of car as Goldfinger? Anyone wonder why? Buwaahaahaa!

Oh and BTW, excellent polemic Mr. Brown.

OK as to atheism and montheism and isms in general.

The critiques of atheists to religion are necessary. They force religious people to stay honest. However, ironicly, any statement about a deity existing or not is a faith based statement. If one believes in God, the atheist will go on and on about how there is no proof for God. Very well... That is why it is called faith.

However, a definitive statement that God does not exist also is made in the absence of proof - and must always remain unproven since lack of observation can never prove lack of existence.

The irony is the athiest who gets himself in a bunch over this is being just as much a fundamentalist as those he excoriates and for the exact same philosophical reasons.

If you want to get scientific and say that faith is not scientific, you are correct. That is why it is called faith. Again ironicly, there is no scientific reason to definitively say God does not exist. The atheist who chortles about how enlightened he is by "disproving" God has no data to do so.Again, he is arguing his faith.

The only actually scientific stance on the question is agnosticism.

But this is all a side show. The excesses and horrors perpetrated by religious people are terrible to list and impossible to deny. Of course the same could be said about atheists as well. Last I checked the Khmer Rouge and the Red Army and the Chinese Army and the Cultural revolution were all atheist movements. Come to think of it, Imperial Japan was not a religious order either - nor were the Nazis.

From this we can conclude that the horrors of history have more to do with the way that people abuse their beliefs than what those beliefs actually are.

The end argument for thinking people to make, IMHO is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. A good debate with a thinking atheist keeps religious folks like me smart and like all philosophical debates helps me to refine my arguments and thoughts. I ask that the other side remember that not every religious statement is horrible a-priori and the many of the teachings that would also be wiped away if you got rid of the whole enterprise, are things you might actually also admire - things like: social justice, duty to those in need, kindness and compassion for those around you, love of culture and continuity, self sacrifice, refraining from instant gratification in the face of larger goals.

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

Something I've wanted to say since the last time this came up.

"The real pure science position is agnostic, not atheist."

Now I feel better.

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

OH CRIPES!

You said that too, but somehow Imissed it.

my bad >>

re: #54 windsagio

Something I've wanted to say since the last time this came up.

"The real pure science position is agnostic, not atheist."

Now I feel better.

Does science have to be agnostic about pink space unicorns? Flying spaghetti monsters?

re: #56 Varek Raith

yup.

You can play the probabilities, but saying they absolutely cannot exist simply isn't scientific.

Also OT: Lol, that stupid Flag thread is still drawing nutjobs.

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

However, a definitive statement that God does not exist also is made in the absence of proof - and must always remain unproven since lack of observation can never prove lack of existence.

I think this is proof of the existence of unicorns. I hear they're tasty.

re: #57 windsagio

yup.

You can play the probabilities, but saying they absolutely cannot exist simply isn't scientific.

Also OT: Lol, that stupid Flag thread is still drawing nutjobs.

Heh, that thread is crazy.

re: #56 Varek Raith

Does science have to be agnostic about pink space unicorns? Flying spaghetti monsters?

A girl my dim-bulb cousin used to date was a math atheist. In particular, she thought algebra was a hoax because a letter could not be a number. The rest of us were apparently just dupes for believing in it.

re: #58 Slumbering Behemoth

I think this is proof of the existence of unicorns. I hear they're tasty.

Better proof.

re: #56 Varek Raith

Does science have to be agnostic about pink space unicorns? Flying spaghetti monsters?

/every time I hear the term "Flying spaghetti monster" I am reminded of this argument I once had with an Italian woman...

well actually IIRC it was linguine, but close enough.

re: #60 Shiplord Kirel

A girl my dim-bulb cousin used to date was a math atheist. In particular, she thought algebra was a hoax because a letter could not be a number. The rest of us were apparently just dupes for believing in it.

Lol, don't get me started on imaginary numbers!
/

re: #60 Shiplord Kirel

A girl my dim-bulb cousin used to date was a math atheist. In particular, she thought algebra was a hoax because a letter could not be a number. The rest of us were apparently just dupes for believing in it.

We should have another one based on whatever current developing event about the entire thing is most most interesting, tommorow . Charles doesn't tend to do many posts on Saturday's and that one could keep us busy for quite a while. I could even invite my newly registered brother to join in the fun!

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

A definitive statement that impossible things do not exist, however, is an acceptable one.

And I think that you're underestimating the importance of the synthesis of Buddhism and Shintoism that was in Imperial Japan, if you're referring to WWII. Given that the status of Emperor as divine was one of the sticky points in negotiation, WWII Imperial Japan definitely had religion as a large component of its culture.

. I ask that the other side remember that not every religious statement is horrible a-priori and the many of the teachings that would also be wiped away if you got rid of the whole enterprise, are things you might actually also admire - things like: social justice, duty to those in need, kindness and compassion for those around you, love of culture and continuity, self sacrifice, refraining from instant gratification in the face of larger goals.

None of those are religious statements. They are often statements made by religious people, derived from what they believe god-- or whomever-- wants. But in so far as you have written them, they contain no religious elements.

There's great wisdom in the religious texts; you're absolutely right about that. Everyone should read the Bible, though skimming in Kings is acceptable.

Everyone should also read the Bhagavad Gita, I think.

re: #60 Shiplord Kirel

A girl my dim-bulb cousin used to date was a math atheist. In particular, she thought algebra was a hoax because a letter could not be a number. The rest of us were apparently just dupes for believing in it.

I dated that girl, I think. Was she also into tarot and astrology?

re: #60 Shiplord Kirel

A girl my dim-bulb cousin used to date was a math atheist. In particular, she thought algebra was a hoax because a letter could not be a number. The rest of us were apparently just dupes for believing in it.

try estimating your income @ y dollars & see if the IRS believes in it either...

re: #56 Varek Raith

Does science have to be agnostic about pink space unicorns? Flying spaghetti monsters?

Science is agnostic about alien life... Why could something that looks like a pink unicorn not exist somewhere else? Same for spaghetti monsters.

No data means no data.

Now if I told you that the spaghetti monster, came to times square every Tuesday at noon and fondled girls with his noodlely appendages, that is a measurable and falsifiable claim. There is no need to be agnostic about that.

If I told you that pink unicorns created the magnetic field, when you can go an measure mag fields and know all about moving charges and what relativistic effects do to electric fields, again, I would be SOL.

However, religions only get in trouble when their more stupid adherrents try to ignore facts and evidence.

If you want to say that there are lots of really obnoxious and dumb religious people, I will be right with you. Just be scientific about how you say it and don't forget all the really shitty non-believers out there too.

re: #66 Slumbering Behemoth

I dated that girl, I think. Was she also into tarot and astrology?

/we all dated TAHT girl...

re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote

Science is agnostic about alien life... Why could something that looks like a pink unicorn not exist somewhere else? Same for spaghetti monsters.

No data means no data.

Now if I told you that the spaghetti monster, came to times square every Tuesday at noon and fondled girls with his noodlely appendages, that is a measurable and falsifiable claim. There is no need to be agnostic about that.

If I told you that pink unicorns created the magnetic field, when you can go an measure mag fields and know all about moving charges and what relativistic effects do to electric fields, again, I would be SOL.

However, religions only get in trouble when their more stupid adherrents try to ignore facts and evidence.

If you want to say that there are lots of really obnoxious and dumb religious people, I will be right with you. Just be scientific about how you say it and don't forget all the really shitty non-believers out there too.

I'm just being somewhat annoying.
:)

re: #70 Varek Raith

Haha good to admit it, I hate the spaghetti monster thing because its outright mockery, and that's not really so cool.

I can say something 'cuz you're upfront about it :D

re: #65 Obdicut

Everyone should read the Bible, though skimming in Kings is acceptable.

I will now read aloud the most humorous portions of the book of Job.

*Ahem*

Well I'm done...

re: #71 windsagio

Haha good to admit it, I hate the spaghetti monster thing because its outright mockery, and that's not really so cool.

I can say something 'cuz you're upfront about it :D

This is what happens when I'm bored.

re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote

If I told you that pink unicorns created the magnetic field...

OMG! So that's how fuckin' magnets work? What a relief, that's had me puzzled for some time.

re: #72 jamesfirecat

I will now read aloud the most humorous portions of the book of Job.

*Ahem*

Well I'm done...

Has the Jesus cartoon show been discussed yet?

re: #73 Varek Raith

Want me to find you some 'blow the girls clothes off' breakout games for you?

re: #75 brookly red

Which one? Flying house?

re: #75 brookly red

oh, responded to the wrong post...sorry.

re: #72 jamesfirecat

I will now read aloud the most humorous portions of the book of Job.

*Ahem*

Well I'm done...

Ur doin it rong.

The Book of Job can be funny, you just have to narrate it properly.

I ask that the other side remember that not every religious statement is horrible a-priori and the many of the teachings that would also be wiped away if you got rid of the whole enterprise, are things you might actually also admire - things like: social justice, duty to those in need, kindness and compassion for those around you, love of culture and continuity, self sacrifice, refraining from instant gratification in the face of larger goals.

This presumes that, as an atheist, I want to get rid of the whole enterprise. I don't care whether you and all the other religious folk continue your practice. It also assumes that "social justice, duty to those in need, kindness and compassion for those around you, love of culture and continuity, self sacrifice, refraining from instant gratification in the face of larger goals" can't exist outside of the religious enterprises. Not true.

I don't mind anyone saying my belief that there is no god is a "belief", but I think it's incorrect to say that "faith" is part of it. There may be a god, there may not. I don't even have faith that I'll find out after I die.

Just my 2 drachma.

re: #65 Obdicut

A definitive statement that impossible things do not exist, however, is an acceptable one.

You can not definitively say that God is impossible.

And I think that you're underestimating the importance of the synthesis of Buddhism and Shintoism that was in Imperial Japan, if you're referring to WWII. Given that the status of Emperor as divine was one of the sticky points in negotiation, WWII Imperial Japan definitely had religion as a large component of its culture.

OK fine, say I give to you... You still have to find a way to make the Maoists, Stalinist, Khmer Rouge and Nazis religious. Good luck with that.

None of those are religious statements.

Those are all actually direct commandments. You are just wrong on that.

There's great wisdom in the religious texts; you're absolutely right about that. Everyone should read the Bible, though skimming in Kings is acceptable.

Lol, Kings does get a little dry in some places, but it some of the most historically verified accounting in the whole Bible.

Everyone should also read the Bhagavad Gita, I think.

And if you know some kaballah when you do, it is especially fascinating.

Just got back from the bargain movie house... a movie recommendation...

Don't waste you money on "Shutter Island."

re: #77 windsagio

Which one? Flying house?

the one planned by comedy central... don't know anything else about it except it is making some people crazy.

re: #81 LudwigVanQuixote

I thought Kings was okay, I didn't like the (�(*#@$ lists.

re: #66 Slumbering Behemoth

I dated that girl, I think. Was she also into tarot and astrology?

As a matter of fact she was.

I briefly dated one who had the full catalog of New Age delusions beliefs. She became wildly enthusiastic when I happened to tell her that I had been born in Salisbury England on the twenty-first of June. She realized that this was within sight of Stonehenge (if you climbed a high steeple), on midsummers day no less, and could only mean that I had some kind of enormously developed paranormal powers. She blankly replied, "Oh." when I told her I did not even believe in such things. The relationship deteriorated from there, not that it had been much of anywhere anyway.

re: #80 wrenchwench

The interesting thing is that its important to you that you don't have "Faith".

I'm sure that means something, but have no idea what :D

re: #54 windsagio

Something I've wanted to say since the last time this came up.

"The real pure science position is agnostic, not atheist."

Now I feel better.

Nope.

re: #87 b_sharp

I am hugely surprised at your position :P

The one to take it up with is Ludwig tho', if you dare :D

When cheap japanese animation and cutrate evangelical writing crosspollinate

Shifting gears, we have yet another deep scientific insight from the wingnuts:

millions of people have and will smoke their entire lives without getting lung cancer, it can never be booked as a definate encarcinogen.

But remember these folks know that AGW is not real. Of course the memes used by the tobacco companies were the same ones used against AGW and Evolution by the same sorts of lobby groups. Their garbage was bought by the same sorts of idiots. The same GOP politicians throw it all out ass red meat and legitimatize it.

Hmmm, I may yet get a FTL Drive after all...
;)

re: #85 Shiplord Kirel

Either it's the same gal, or gals like that are a dime a dozen.

Mine broke when I laughed at her for honestly believing the baloney about how a tarot reader is supposed to acquire their cards. And the astrology stuff.

re: #81 LudwigVanQuixote

You can not definitively say that God is impossible.

I can definitely say that every well-defined God I've ever been presented with was impossible or would have no possible way of interacting with the world.

But you've read Dennett, so you basically know what my thesis on that would be so I needn't reproduce it here.

OK fine, say I give to you... You still have to find a way to make the Maoists, Stalinist, Khmer Rouge and Nazis religious. Good luck with that.

Why do I have to find a way to do that? I'm just pointing out that using Imperial Japan detracts from your argument; the larger point about it being corruption of belief, not belief itself, as the problem is perfectly true.

Those are all actually direct commandments. You are just wrong on that.

They may be direct commandments. But they are not religious. They involve nothing supernatural. They may exist in religions, as I said, or be said by religious people, but they are not sourced in religion. It is perfectly possible for an atheist to say and believe in all those things out of their own non-religious conception of humanity. I certainly believe and try to practice all of those things, while being an atheist.

Those statements do not depend on the existence of religion for their existence. The implication that they do is mildly insulting to atheists.

re: #92 Slumbering Behemoth

If its the same gal, she sure gets around. I dated her too >>

re: #90 LudwigVanQuixote

Shifting gears, we have yet another deep scientific insight from the wingnuts:

But remember these folks know that AGW is not real. Of course the memes used by the tobacco companies were the same ones used against AGW and Evolution by the same sorts of lobby groups. Their garbage was bought by the same sorts of idiots. The same GOP politicians throw it all out ass red meat and legitimatize it.

Glad to know that now then excuse me while I light up...

Image: smoking-20smoking-small.jpg

re: #94 windsagio

If its the same gal, she sure gets around. I dated her too >>

Pfft, she's just a figment of your imaginations...

re: #95 jamesfirecat

Geez, you can get three kinds of cancer from just looking at that picture.

re: #96 Varek Raith

Dominican Girlfriend, eh? :D

re: #93 Obdicut

And I don't really consider debating the validity of atheism with religious people polite on my part, so I'm going to leave it there. Also< I have to go commute.

I recommend to everyone Daniel Dennet's book Darwin's Dangerous Idea, for the very best-presented arguments concerning atheism that I'm aware of.

And the book The Ball and the Cross, by G.K. Chesterton, for a very sweet religious conception of atheism.

re: #95 jamesfirecat

I desperately wanted to find the 'Bill's Bazooka barfing' bloom county, but I totally failed >>

Stupid google.

re: #96 Varek Raith

Pfft, she's just a figment of your imaginations...

Nope, she's real. I touched, tasted and smelled her. A lot.

re: #89 windsagio

When cheap japanese animation and cutrate evangelical writing crosspollinate

I still wanna see "the 10 Commandments" in 3D...

re: #99 Obdicut

You're a beautiful soul :D

re: #90 LudwigVanQuixote

Shifting gears, we have yet another deep scientific insight from the wingnuts:

But remember these folks know that AGW is not real. Of course the memes used by the tobacco companies were the same ones used against AGW and Evolution by the same sorts of lobby groups. Their garbage was bought by the same sorts of idiots. The same GOP politicians throw it all out ass red meat and legitimatize it.

Well you have got to admit this is True..Millions will never get lung Cancer from smoking..They will drop from a heart attack way before that..

re: #101 Slumbering Behemoth

Nope, she's real. I touched, tasted and smelled her. A lot.

uggg, that damned petchoulie oil...

re: #102 brookly red

I still wanna see "the 10 Commandments" in 3D...

I'm still waiting for "Ten things I hate about Commandments..."

Anyone who buys gold as their principal form of payment for the post-'pocalyptic polity is a poltroon.

Everyone knows the best thing is going to be silver dollars for major purchases and silver dimes for everyday shopping.

And you can get rolls of pre-debasement pure silver Roosevelt dimes for a very reasonable price.

When TSHTF, one of those dimes is likely to be worth at least ten of today's funny-money back-by-nothing-but-Chinese-debt dollar bills.

re: #107 Cato the Elder

Anyone who buys gold as their principal form of payment for the post-'pocalyptic polity is a poltroon.

Everyone knows the best thing is going to be silver dollars for major purchases and silver dimes for everyday shopping.

And you can get rolls of pre-debasement pure silver Roosevelt dimes for a very reasonable price.

When TSHTF, one of those dimes is likely to be worth at least ten of today's funny-money back-by-nothing-but-Chinese-debt dollar bills.

No. Bottle caps.
Bottle caps.

re: #57 windsagio

yup.

You can play the probabilities, but saying they absolutely cannot exist simply isn't scientific.

Also OT: Lol, that stupid Flag thread is still drawing nutjobs.

I think you have the wrong idea about what atheism is based on.

In science, if something has a high enough probability it is accepted as valid. An atheist says the same thing. The probability that an invisible giant teapot is not orbiting the Earth is high enough to be accepted as fact. The probability that a god does not exist is high enough that it can be accepted as fact.

The subject is shifting, but one last 'seriously effed up childrens animation that has something to do with religion'

The Mysterious Stranger

re: #105 brookly red

uggg, that damned petchoulie oil...

What do you take me for? I would never date a woman who wore that. The only granola I eat is the kind that goes in a cereal bowl.

re: #86 windsagio

The interesting thing is that its important to you that you don't have "Faith".

I'm sure that means something, but have no idea what :D

It's not very important, I'm just pointing out what I think is incorrect. I'm sure I operate on faith in many things, like that the laws of physics aren't going to change when I apply the brakes on my bike.

re: #93 Obdicut

Those statements do not depend on the existence of religion for their existence. The implication that they do is mildly insulting to atheists.

I hope I am more than just mildly insulting to atheists of the dogmatic Dawkinsian stamp.

If I haven't been up to now, I shall have to try harder.

re: #108 Varek Raith

No. Bottle caps.
Bottle caps.

Nuka-Cola caps, to be specific.

re: #113 Cato the Elder

Just tell them they have a faith, or even better are part of the 'atheist religion'.

Then step back to keep the spittle off of your nice dinner jacket.

re: #93 Obdicut

I can definitely say that every well-defined God I've ever been presented with was impossible or would have no possible way of interacting with the world.

Which is why Jewish Tradition, through Rambam, goes on about only being able to ascribe what God is not if you are discussing His actual attributes.

But you've read Dennett, so you basically know what my thesis on that would be so I needn't reproduce it here.

But you've read Guide for the Perplexed, so I need not replicate that either.

They may be direct commandments. But they are not religious. They involve nothing supernatural.

I do not understand how you can say that. They are direct commandments from God as far as the religion is concerned. God certainly counts as supernatural.

They may exist in religions, as I said, or be said by religious people, but they are not sourced in religion. It is perfectly possible for an atheist to say and believe in all those things out of their own non-religious conception of humanity. I certainly believe and try to practice all of those things, while being an atheist.

I never said that being an atheist makes you a bad person, nor did I imply it. However, since the believer can claim that those notions are literally woven into the structure of the creation - as manifested by the will of a creator, they have more authority than the utilitarian arguments that an atheist is forced to use to justify them.

Those statements do not depend on the existence of religion for their existence

Correct, but they do have more "punch" the religious way.

The implication that they do is mildly insulting to atheists.

I never implied that.

re: #115 windsagio

Just tell them they have a faith, or even better are part of the 'atheist religion'.

Then step back to keep the spittle off of your nice dinner jacket.

If that's what floats your boat.
:P

re: #107 Cato the Elder

last I checked the melt weight value was 12x the face value...

re: #117 Varek Raith

If that's what floats your boat.
:P

Its more the bee up my bonnet :D

Were you around for my 'I hate exceptionalism' rant?

re: #110 windsagio

The subject is shifting, but one last 'seriously effed up childrens animation that has something to do with religion'

The Mysterious Stranger

[Video]

WTF is this shit.

re: #120 Varek Raith

Somebody was on seconal I think.

The original story is dark, but not THAT dark.

re: #116 LudwigVanQuixote

However, since the believer can claim that those notions are literally woven into the structure of the creation - as manifested by the will of a creator, they have more authority than the utilitarian arguments that an atheist is forced to use to justify them.

Self justifying argument.

re: #114 Slumbering Behemoth

Nuka-Cola caps, to be specific.

I am stockpiling cheap booze...

re: #121 windsagio

Somebody was on seconal I think.

The original story is dark, but not THAT dark.

Heh, that was freaking awesome.

re: #107 Cato the Elder

Anyone who buys gold as their principal form of payment for the post-'pocalyptic polity is a poltroon.

Everyone knows the best thing is going to be silver dollars for major purchases and silver dimes for everyday shopping.

And you can get rolls of pre-debasement pure silver Roosevelt dimes for a very reasonable price.

When TSHTF, one of those dimes is likely to be worth at least ten of today's funny-money back-by-nothing-but-Chinese-debt dollar bills.

"Time counts and keeps countin', and we knows now finding the trick of what's been and lost ain't no easy ride. But that's our trek, we gotta' travel it. And there ain't nobody knows where it's gonna' lead. Still in all, every night we does the tell, so that we 'member who we was and where we came from... but most of all we 'members the man that finded us, him that came the salvage. And we lights the city, not just for him, but for all of them that are still out there. 'Cause we knows there come a night, when they sees the distant light, and they'll be comin' home."

re: #57 windsagio

yup.

You can play the probabilities, but saying they absolutely cannot exist simply isn't scientific.

Also OT: Lol, that stupid Flag thread is still drawing nutjobs.

A little more.

An agnostic says we can never really rule out the existence of a god because we cannot logically prove a negative so I will live my life as though there probably isn't such a thing, but I'll reserve a bit of space in my mind for a god just in case.

An atheist says we can rule out the existence of a god even though it is not possible to logically prove a negative because the preponderance of evidence shows a god is not only not necessary but not possible given the physical laws as we understand them. I will not bother reserving that bit of space because it would be a waste. However if the evidence changes, I will then make room, but the evidence will have to be spectacular and overturn all previous evidence against. I do not expect that to happen.

An atheist is closer to science than an agnostic.

re: #65 Obdicut

A definitive statement that impossible things do not exist, however, is an acceptable one.

And I think that you're underestimating the importance of the synthesis of Buddhism and Shintoism that was in Imperial Japan, if you're referring to WWII. Given that the status of Emperor as divine was one of the sticky points in negotiation, WWII Imperial Japan definitely had religion as a large component of its culture.

None of those are religious statements. They are often statements made by religious people, derived from what they believe god-- or whomever-- wants. But in so far as you have written them, they contain no religious elements.

There's great wisdom in the religious texts; you're absolutely right about that. Everyone should read the Bible, though skimming in Kings is acceptable.

Everyone should also read the Bhagavad Gita, I think.

Ha!

I found 'Time Enough for Love' quite enough, thank you.

(BTW, I read the Bible at 12, and the BG >30 years ago.)

re: #32 _RememberTonyC

Buying gold seems like a really dumb idea to me. If the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and you are holding gold bullion as your hedge against economic disaster, who do you expect will have enough cash to buy it from you?

Buying gold at today's prices is probably a bad idea. But gold has a good track record as a store of value. It doesn't spoil, it's compact enough that you can hold it without needing a warehouse, it's portable, and it's impossible to counterfeit.

So let's say we have another Jimmy Carter style inflation, but prolonged. Money loses 15 to 20% of its purchasing power a year. You might invest in stocks, or collectible comic books, but gold is likely to hold up fairly well. As to who will have the cash to buy your gold, the problem would be that everybody is flush with cash but unfortunately it doesn't seem to go as far as it used to.

This kind of inflation is bad for the economy. It leads to misdirected efforts and waste. But those who hold gold get hurt less than those who hold dollars in a bank account.

Who can say whether that's what's in store? If fiat money holds up in value, paper money and bank accounts will be a better way to save than buying gold when you have spare cash, selling it when you lack cash.

re: #69 brookly red

/we all dated TAHT girl...

I am that girl. Oops sorry, I'm not a girl. But I do have a set of Tarot cards.

re: #122 Naso Tang

Self justifying argument.

Well, I am not going to argue the other side.

However, it is not an invalid argument either. The argument that you refrain from killing Larry when he is annoying because Larry has incalculable worth endowed by the fabric of creation itself, is much stronger than you don't kill Larry in order to prevent Larry's friends from killing you or because you think Larry is useful even though annoying.

re: #128 lostlakehiker

I am stockpiling cheap booze...

re: #118 brookly red

last I checked the melt weight value was 12x the face value...

Which is why you want your silver in small chunks. Cuttin' up silver dollars to pay for stuff is a pain. Silver dimes, by that reckoning, would each be worth $1.20. But that's pre-TSHTF, and I'd imagine that once the Almighty Worthless Paper Dollar becomes birdcage lining, today's dollar valuations would quickly become meaningless.

Of course another thing that may become readily tradeable - in one sense or the other - is ammo.

re: #130 LudwigVanQuixote

And everyone knows, Larry is damn annoying.

re: #128 lostlakehiker

Buying gold at today's prices is probably a bad idea. But gold has a good track record as a store of value. It doesn't spoil, it's compact enough that you can hold it without needing a warehouse, it's portable, and it's impossible to counterfeit.

So let's say we have another Jimmy Carter style inflation, but prolonged. Money loses 15 to 20% of its purchasing power a year. You might invest in stocks, or collectible comic books, but gold is likely to hold up fairly well. As to who will have the cash to buy your gold, the problem would be that everybody is flush with cash but unfortunately it doesn't seem to go as far as it used to.

This kind of inflation is bad for the economy. It leads to misdirected efforts and waste. But those who hold gold get hurt less than those who hold dollars in a bank account.

Who can say whether that's what's in store? If fiat money holds up in value, paper money and bank accounts will be a better way to save than buying gold when you have spare cash, selling it when you lack cash.

re: #128 lostlakehiker

Buying gold at today's prices is probably a bad idea. But gold has a good track record as a store of value. It doesn't spoil, it's compact enough that you can hold it without needing a warehouse, it's portable, and it's impossible to counterfeit.

So let's say we have another Jimmy Carter style inflation, but prolonged. Money loses 15 to 20% of its purchasing power a year. You might invest in stocks, or collectible comic books, but gold is likely to hold up fairly well. As to who will have the cash to buy your gold, the problem would be that everybody is flush with cash but unfortunately it doesn't seem to go as far as it used to.

This kind of inflation is bad for the economy. It leads to misdirected efforts and waste. But those who hold gold get hurt less than those who hold dollars in a bank account.

Who can say whether that's what's in store? If fiat money holds up in value, paper money and bank accounts will be a better way to save than buying gold when you have spare cash, selling it when you lack cash.

I don't see it in store at the moment too many people seem to use the dollar as a benchmark of value to let it inflate much. Other currencies rise in value above it (Pound worth $2, Canada dollar equal to American dollar which is a form of defacto inflation if you go abroad) but the dollar itself doesn't seem to be inflating here at home...

re: #126 b_sharp

A little more.

An agnostic says we can never really rule out the existence of a god because we cannot logically prove a negative so I will live my life as though there probably isn't such a thing, but I'll reserve a bit of space in my mind for a god just in case.

An atheist says we can rule out the existence of a god even though it is not possible to logically prove a negative because the preponderance of evidence shows a god is not only not necessary but not possible given the physical laws as we understand them. I will not bother reserving that bit of space because it would be a waste. However if the evidence changes, I will then make room, but the evidence will have to be spectacular and overturn all previous evidence against. I do not expect that to happen.

An atheist is closer to science than an agnostic.

Sorry I think you have it wrong...All scientists should on the face of it be agnostic...Look everybody knows the first Rainbow wasn't 6000 years ago..Light have passed through water particles for Billions of years...Yes there was a rainbow long before Noah..It's a fable my friends..
That doesn't mean there isn't God..The Lord Almighty...You don't get to prove God in Science...And by keeping it separate Mankind as made wonderful strides in Science...

re: #126 b_sharp

A little more.

An agnostic says we can never really rule out the existence of a god because we cannot logically prove a negative so I will live my life as though there probably isn't such a thing, but I'll reserve a bit of space in my mind for a god just in case.

An atheist says we can rule out the existence of a god even though it is not possible to logically prove a negative because the preponderance of evidence shows a god is not only not necessary but not possible given the physical laws as we understand them. I will not bother reserving that bit of space because it would be a waste. However if the evidence changes, I will then make room, but the evidence will have to be spectacular and overturn all previous evidence against. I do not expect that to happen.

An atheist is closer to science than an agnostic.

That a bit of arrogant presumption on your part. A literal version of God as presented in various religious texts might fall into that category. Outside of those definitions we can narrow it down to a force/entity responsible for creation of reality/the universe/etc. That is likely to be something that is beyond human comprehension (much as quantum mechanics would be to a lemur), for which you don't even know what evidence for it would be. Such a thing cant be matter-of-fact said to be impossible due to physical laws.

re: #132 Cato the Elder

Which is why you want your silver in small chunks. Cuttin' up silver dollars to pay for stuff is a pain. Silver dimes, by that reckoning, would each be worth $1.20. But that's pre-TSHTF, and I'd imagine that once the Almighty Worthless Paper Dollar becomes birdcage lining, today's dollar valuations would quickly become meaningless.

Of course another thing that may become readily tradeable - in one sense or the other - is ammo.

hence the shortage...

re: #135 HoosierHoops

re: #136 ArchangelMichael

Don't argue with the religious extremist >>

re: #115 windsagio

Just tell them they have a faith, or even better are part of the 'atheist religion'.

Then step back to keep the spittle off of your nice dinner jacket.

Well, if they don't, why do so many insist on capitalizing "Atheist" and "Atheism"?

Things that make you go "hmm"...

re: #138 windsagio

re: #136 ArchangelMichael

Don't argue with the religious extremist >>

SPAGHETTIHU AKBAR!
BOOM!
/I'm so going to the Earth's core.

re: #139 Cato the Elder

Well, if they don't, why do so many insist on capitalizing "Atheist" and "Atheism"?

Things that make you go "hmm"...

I never capitalize it, except at the beginning of a sentence. Why would you, it's not a proper noun, is it?

re: #126 b_sharp

An atheist says we can rule out the existence of a god even though it is not possible to logically prove a negative because the preponderance of evidence shows a god is not only not necessary but not possible given the physical laws as we understand them.

If physical laws as we understand them allowed yu to make this claim, you would have a point. However,they do not. How do Maxwell's equations or QM or SR or chemistry or biology rule out God?

You've made a very bold statement. How do you support it?

I will not bother reserving that bit of space because it would be a waste. However if the evidence changes, I will then make room, but the evidence will have to be spectacular and overturn all previous evidence against. I do not expect that to happen.

OK that is fair, but what physical, measurable, scientific evidence do you have against Him?

An atheist is closer to science than an agnostic.

Not unless you can back up your remarkable claim.

re: #110 windsagio

The subject is shifting, but one last 'seriously effed up childrens animation that has something to do with religion'

The Mysterious Stranger

[Video]

That was seriously fucked up.

re: #139 Cato the Elder

Because its not rational. The whole point is in believing that they're different and better, which is the source of my discontent.

re: #140 Varek Raith

I'm trying to be good, I swear >>

re: #143 Alouette

That was seriously fucked up.

It was seriously awesome.
Or am I just messed up???
:)

re: #143 Alouette

and remember it was written for and marketed to children, and on Network TV!

re: #146 Varek Raith

Both? Or maybe all 3 if you include what Aluette said :p

re: #148 windsagio

Both? Or maybe all 3 if you include what Aluette said :p

Awesome. Three for the price of none!

re: #139 Cato the Elder

Well, if they don't, why do so many insist on capitalizing "Atheist" and "Atheism"?

I don't recall ever seeing one who does not accept the existence of a supreme being capitalize either of those words. Hmmm...

re: #144 windsagio

Because its not rational. The whole point is in believing that they're different and better, which is the source of my discontent.

Who are these atheist you are talking about? Name names?

re: #126 b_sharp

An atheist is closer to science than an agnostic.

Mmm...warm and snuggly Science! Come a little closer, baby.

And fuck that slut, Truth.

re: #152 Cato the Elder

Mmm...warm and snuggly Science! Come a little closer, baby.

And fuck that slut, Truth.

Lol.

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

Do I have to? You're asking me to insult people ot their face :P

re: #154 windsagio

Do I have to? You're asking me to insult people ot their face :P

Bring it!

re: #65 Obdicut

Everyone should also read the Bhagavad Gita, I think.

There's a lovely little iPhone app that sings the Gita to you, verse by verse, first in Sanskrit and then in English translation.

re: #81 LudwigVanQuixote

You can not definitively say that God is impossible.

So what? I don't need to have 100% proof of that, all I need is for the evidence to be convincing.

How small does the place a god, or God, could possibly hide have to be, before we accept that he/she/it doesn't exist? That God hiding place keeps getting smaller and smaller.

Why does the idea of a god/God have a different standard of disproof than everything else? The existence of Thor doesn't need to be 100% disproved for it to be rejected. Yahweh is no different.

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

Who are these atheist you are talking about? Name names?

/J'accuse!

re: #143 Alouette

That was seriously fucked up.

I am not admonishing you, but I have noticed a change in your use of language of late.

Too much nonsense going on?

re: #88 windsagio

I am hugely surprised at your position :P

The one to take it up with is Ludwig tho', if you dare :D

Oh damn! When did I let the cat out of the bag? ;)

re: #150 allegro

I don't recall ever seeing one who does not accept the existence of a supreme being capitalize either of those words. Hmmm...

I've seen it more times than I can count.

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

Hi Ludwig! I shouldn't have said anything about God.. We have a wicked bad storm moving in with large cracks of lightning and Little Winston is under the bed..
We know Nature is not directed by human behavior but by Science...
Now..If the house gets hit by lightning..I may change my mind..
/

re: #159 LudwigVanQuixote

I am not admonishing you, but I have noticed a change in your use of language of late.

Too much nonsense going on?

My kids are not around to tell me "Ma, I don't like it when you say 'fuck' on Little Green Footballs."

re: #162 HoosierHoops

Hi Ludwig! I shouldn't have said anything about God.. We have a wicked bad storm moving in with large cracks of lightning and Little Winston is under the bed..
We know Nature is not directed by human behavior but by Science...
Now..If the house gets hit by lightning..I may change my mind..
/

It's because b_sharp dissed Thor...

Regina Spektor - "Laughing With" Official Video

re: #113 Cato the Elder

I hope I am more than just mildly insulting to atheists of the dogmatic Dawkinsian stamp.

If I haven't been up to now, I shall have to try harder.

Go for it.

Some of you may have noticed the dog that seems to be a the center of the action at the Greek riots, well, here's his Facebook page.
Riot dog.

"I live in Athens, in exarxeia and this dog is very famous and everybody feeds and loves this animal.BUT his name is LOUK,from Loukanikos a word that means sausage,because he used to eat sausages all the time.He lives on the street,he has no master and he, along with 4-5 other dogs comes to every demonstration here in Athens.You will find him every day in MESOLLOGIOU street,where ALEXANDROS GRIGOROPOULOS,a 15 year old student was shot by the police."

More at the link.

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

OK as to atheism and montheism and isms in general.

The critiques of atheists to religion are necessary. They force religious people to stay honest. However, ironicly, any statement about a deity existing or not is a faith based statement. If one believes in God, the atheist will go on and on about how there is no proof for God. Very well... That is why it is called faith.

However, a definitive statement that God does not exist also is made in the absence of proof - and must always remain unproven since lack of observation can never prove lack of existence.

The irony is the athiest who gets himself in a bunch over this is being just as much a fundamentalist as those he excoriates and for the exact same philosophical reasons.

If you want to get scientific and say that faith is not scientific, you are correct. That is why it is called faith. Again ironicly, there is no scientific reason to definitively say God does not exist. The atheist who chortles about how enlightened he is by "disproving" God has no data to do so.Again, he is arguing his faith.

The only actually scientific stance on the question is agnosticism.

But this is all a side show. The excesses and horrors perpetrated by religious people are terrible to list and impossible to deny. Of course the same could be said about atheists as well. Last I checked the Khmer Rouge and the Red Army and the Chinese Army and the Cultural revolution were all atheist movements. Come to think of it, Imperial Japan was not a religious order either - nor were the Nazis.

From this we can conclude that the horrors of history have more to do with the way that people abuse their beliefs than what those beliefs actually are.

The end argument for thinking people to make, IMHO is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. A good debate with a thinking atheist keeps religious folks like me smart and like all philosophical debates helps me to refine my arguments and thoughts. I ask that the other side remember that not every religious statement is horrible a-priori and the many of the teachings that would also be wiped away if you got rid of the whole enterprise, are things you might actually also admire - things like: social justice, duty to those in need, kindness and compassion for those around you, love of culture and continuity, self sacrifice, refraining from instant gratification in the face of larger goals.

Indeed. I'm in the camp of the jury that, when asked to render a verdict guilty or not guilty, returned the verdict not proved. Ethical humanism is a tough row to hoe. "We" owe a huge debt to religion. And here's a metaphor: what are "go" proverbs, anyhow? They're the religion of go players. Proverb believers play one way, free thinkers play another. Proverb believers tend to win. How's that? We absolutely know that "go" is just a game with a decision tree, that there are no "go" miracles, and that everything depends purely and entirely on "if he goes there and I go there then he can go there and that would lead to this" type reasoning. By rights, the scoffer should win. He's right. But---not really. Because although those proverbs are not literally divine commandments, they are the distilled wisdom of many centuries of champions and go teachers. Human minds are incapable of chasing down all the by-ways and intricacies of the he-goes-there-then-I-do-that approach to go. Thus, it is entirely possible that go proverbs are true in the sense that the believer plays better than the scoffer.

Likewise, it is entirely possible that even if there is no miracle worker in the background, that even if there is no God, these religious teachings are nevertheless true---in the sense that we would make less of a mess of our lives than we normally do if we treated them as true.

It is also possible that they're true because faith is a resonance with something real in a sense that physics cannot capture.

re: #130 LudwigVanQuixote

Natural selection selected those who were capable of forming social bonds, weeding out the mindless killers the best it can.

re: #164 Varek Raith

It's because b_sharp dissed Thor...

If I get hit during the play-offs..Well I'll...
/So far so good..I can tell the power is going to go out..A couple of years in Indiana with these storms..You know shit is going down...

re: #157 b_sharp

So what? I don't need to have 100% proof of that, all I need is for the evidence to be convincing.

What convincing evidence against God's existence do you have? That is all I ma asking. I am not asking for 100% evidence or even 5% evidence. What evidence at all, that is physical, measurable and scientific do you have against His existence do you have?

How small does the place a god, or God, could possibly hide have to be, before we accept that he/she/it doesn't exist? That God hiding place keeps getting smaller and smaller.

Respectfully, you are making sloppy work of Feynman's argument.

When Feynman made that argument he was more careful in what he said. If you mean that more and more of the physical world is explained by science as we go on, then yes of course. However, in his arguments he was referring to ancient pagans as examples - even though he falsely extended it to monotheists. If you are a pagan and you worship natural phenomena, then yes indeed, science is going to come and clean your clock, because natural phenomena are subject to scientific investigation.

But that does not apply to God as conceived by monotheism.

Why does the idea of a god/God have a different standard of disproof than everything else? The existence of Thor doesn't need to be 100% disproved for it to be rejected. Yahweh is no different.

Thor is a god of thunder. Thunder is a natural phenomena caused by the interactions of electromagnetism and fluid dynamics. God is conceived as the creator of those physical principles. Hence there is no contradiction in the case of God.

re: #163 Alouette

My kids are not around to tell me "Ma, I don't like it when you say 'fuck' on Little Green Footballs."

I do adore you. I just want to be clear.

re: #157 b_sharp

So what? I don't need to have 100% proof of that, all I need is for the evidence to be convincing.

How small does the place a god, or God, could possibly hide have to be, before we accept that he/she/it doesn't exist? That God hiding place keeps getting smaller and smaller.

Why does the idea of a god/God have a different standard of disproof than everything else? The existence of Thor doesn't need to be 100% disproved for it to be rejected. Yahweh is no different.

If I come to die and find myself turned away from Valhalla by Thor along with all the other deluded Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, Animists, Pantheists and the rest, I will at least be able to take comfort in the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Atheists amongst the crowd.

re: #173 Cato the Elder

If I come to die and find myself turned away from Valhalla by Thor along with all the other deluded Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, Animists, Pantheists and the rest, I will at least be able to take comfort in the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Atheists amongst the crowd.

I'd roflmao.

re: #169 McSpiff

Natural selection selected those who were capable of forming social bonds, weeding out the mindless killers the best it can.

What about the social bonds used to kill other groups? You have to be very careful with the minefield (no pun intended) that line of reasoning goes down.

I agree that there is a selective pressure on our species to maintain group bonds. However, that does not remove the possibility that God intended it that way.

re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote

What about the social bonds used to kill other groups? You have to be very careful with the minefield (no pun intended) that line of reasoning goes down.

I agree that there is a selective pressure on our species to maintain group bonds. However, that does not remove the possibility that God intended it that way.

one of your better IMO.

re: #173 Cato the Elder

If I come to die and find myself turned away from Valhalla by Thor along with all the other deluded Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, Animists, Pantheists and the rest, I will at least be able to take comfort in the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Atheists amongst the crowd.

Dude viking is not so great anyway. You sit around in a giant meade hall getting tanked and brawling with other guests until Ragnarök comes and you and even the gods face total oblivion. Though the boinking valkyries part sounds appealing...

re: #174 Varek Raith

I'd be more upset that they'd let my dog across the Rainbow Bridge, but not me >>

re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote

What about the social bonds used to kill other groups? You have to be very careful with the minefield (no pun intended) that line of reasoning goes down.

I agree that there is a selective pressure on our species to maintain group bonds. However, that does not remove the possibility that God intended it that way.

Considering the religious wars throughout human history, with those social bonds used to kill other groups, did a god intend it that way?

re: #172 LudwigVanQuixote

I do adore you. I just want to be clear.

I find that I am more inclined to use cuss words when I am in a lot of pain. Arthritis has spread from my feet and ankles to my knees and every step is, well, it's unpleasant.

I have vicodin, but I don't like to take it unless the pain gets really, really unbearable. I'd rather grit my teeth and grunt "Scheiss burgers!" than pop pills all day long.

re: #177 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude viking is not so great anyway. You sit around in a giant meade hall getting tanked and brawling with other guests until Ragnarök comes and you and even the gods face total oblivion. Though the boinking valkyries part sounds appealing...

Ragnarök would be awesome as hell to watch...

re: #180 Alouette

That's the kind of post you don't know whether to upding or not. Condolances for your pain >

re: #168 lostlakehiker

Indeed. I'm in the camp of the jury that, when asked to render a verdict guilty or not guilty, returned the verdict not proved. Ethical humanism is a tough row to hoe. "We" owe a huge debt to religion. And here's a metaphor: what are "go" proverbs, anyhow? They're the religion of go players. Proverb believers play one way, free thinkers play another. Proverb believers tend to win. How's that? We absolutely know that "go" is just a game with a decision tree, that there are no "go" miracles, and that everything depends purely and entirely on "if he goes there and I go there then he can go there and that would lead to this" type reasoning. By rights, the scoffer should win. He's right. But---not really. Because although those proverbs are not literally divine commandments, they are the distilled wisdom of many centuries of champions and go teachers. Human minds are incapable of chasing down all the by-ways and intricacies of the he-goes-there-then-I-do-that approach to go. Thus, it is entirely possible that go proverbs are true in the sense that the believer plays better than the scoffer.

Likewise, it is entirely possible that even if there is no miracle worker in the background, that even if there is no God, these religious teachings are nevertheless true---in the sense that we would make less of a mess of our lives than we normally do if we treated them as true.

It is also possible that they're true because faith is a resonance with something real in a sense that physics cannot capture.

I think that is an excellent post.

I can't measure love with a spectrometer or write an equation for joy or beauty.

re: #182 windsagio

pain sucks.

37% of all atheists utter "Oh God" as their last dying words.

/I'm just saying.

Oh brother.

re: #180 Alouette

I find that I am more inclined to use cuss words when I am in a lot of pain. Arthritis has spread from my feet and ankles to my knees and every step is, well, it's unpleasant.

I have vicodin, but I don't like to take it unless the pain gets really, really unbearable. I'd rather grit my teeth and grunt "Scheiss burgers!" than pop pills all day long.

do you use ginger? it is a very potent anti-inflammatory.

re: #179 allegro

Considering the religious wars throughout human history, with those social bonds used to kill other groups, did a god intend it that way?

Did he intend it that way when non-religious Nazis, Stalinists, Maoists and Khmer Rouge killed even more?

The scripture is rather clear on the don't murder people stuff.

re: #185 Racer X

37% of all atheists utter "Oh God" as their last dying words.

/I'm just saying.

Oh, God...
Just kidding!
:P

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

I can't measure love with a spectrometer or write an equation for joy or beauty.

Yet the physical and chemical responses in the brain in response to both can be seen and measured.

re: #184 Alouette

pain sucks.

I hear that. Fish oil capsules helps me.

re: #180 Alouette

{{{Alouette}}}

I think there are fewer side effects from cussing, although I admit I am unfamiliar with potential consequences for your immortal soul.

re: #46 Slumbering Behemoth

You've got it all wrong. When the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and society goes down the tubes, you don't sell your gold for cash.

You take that gold ingot you bought for $1200 and trade it for a pound of rice and a roll of toilet paper.

/BUY GOLD!

I know a few people who got through the Second World War like that, but it's not exactly an ideal long-term financial plan.

re: #177 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude viking is not so great anyway. You sit around in a giant meade hall getting tanked and brawling with other guests until Ragnarök comes and you and even the gods face total oblivion. Though the boinking valkyries part sounds appealing...

If the universe indeed created itself ex nihilo in the Big Bang, the theological notion that whatever gods there are will disappear in the Big Crunch has some scientific merit to it. And drinking and brawling and listening to skalds sing ribald songs in between Valkyrie boinking sessions sounds like a pretty good way to pass the interim time to these lascivious, drunken old ears...

re: #187 brookly red

do you use ginger? it is a very potent anti-inflammatory.

I like to cook with ginger. I have a big chunk in the fridge. What should I do, drop a slice in my tea?

re: #49 windsagio

I just happened to reread the book of Goldfinger.

They're supposed to be Korean.

BTW, Ian Fleming REALLY hates Koreans for some reason.

That sort of thing usually goes back to a girl in college...

re: #185 Racer X

37% of all atheists utter "Oh God" as their last dying words.

/I'm just saying.

If they see it coming. I have seen a number of people buy it with the phrase "oh shit!"

re: #180 Alouette

I find that I am more inclined to use cuss words when I am in a lot of pain. Arthritis has spread from my feet and ankles to my knees and every step is, well, it's unpleasant.

I have vicodin, but I don't like to take it unless the pain gets really, really unbearable. I'd rather grit my teeth and grunt "Scheiss burgers!" than pop pills all day long.

I understand. My mom has similar problems. She has recently started cussing up a storm I am told. She too does not want to take pain killers until she is about to fall over.

I really think that taking the prescribed dosage if you are actually hurting will not lead to addiction or lead to any long term harm.

re: #190 allegro

Yet the physical and chemical responses in the brain in response to both can be seen and measured.

Your point being?

re: #197 brookly red

If they see it coming. I have seen a number of people buy it with the phrase "oh shit!"

46% to be precise.

re: #188 LudwigVanQuixote

Did he intend it that way when non-religious Nazis, Stalinists, Maoists and Khmer Rouge killed even more?

The scripture is rather clear on the don't murder people stuff.

Yes it is... and it's also very clear on which city to invade, which populations were worth saving, and which one weren't, how to divide the spoils and how not to divide the spoils and what will happen if you don't follow G-d's rules of warfare.

And your also right... non-religious Nazis, Stalinists, Maoists and Khmer Rouge killed even more.

re: #192 wrenchwench

{{{Alouette}}}

I think there are fewer side effects from cussing, although I admit I am unfamiliar with potential consequences for your immortal soul.

Saying stuff like "Scheiss burgers!" is naughty but it's not on the same magnitude of soul damage as cursing the name of G-d.

re: #197 brookly red

If they see it coming. I have seen a number of people buy it with the phrase "oh shit!"

And don't forget the ever popular, "...".

re: #190 allegro

Yet the physical and chemical responses in the brain in response to both can be seen and measured.

So if humans have a spiritual component, why could that not be a physical manifestation of it?

re: #203 Varek Raith

"Worst hundred dollars I ever spent"

re: #130 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, I am not going to argue the other side.

However, it is not an invalid argument either. The argument that you refrain from killing Larry when he is annoying because Larry has incalculable worth endowed by the fabric of creation itself, is much stronger than you don't kill Larry in order to prevent Larry's friends from killing you or because you think Larry is useful even though annoying.

Religion certainly is good for keeping people in line, and for convincing them to take certain actions.

I do however, have trouble accepting the idea we don't kill Larry because Larry has worth. We don't kill Larry because of the cost/benefit ratio. Religion has the ability to skew the belief in what that ratio happens to be, even if it does not reflect reality.

Our current social conscience, which has been partially influenced by religion, does the same thing.

re: #199 Cato the Elder

Your point being?

My point being that most any phenomenon that is used to point to the existence of a supreme being has been, or arguably will at some point, be explained through scientific means and measurements as not supernatural at all.

re: #205 windsagio

"Hey Larry, hold my beer and watch this".

re: #207 allegro

My point being that most any phenomenon that is used to point to the existence of a supreme being has been, or arguably will at some point, be explained through scientific means and measurements as not supernatural at all.

100 percent of the time.

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

That sort of thing usually goes back to a girl in college...

LOL.

That is so true.

I was talking with the GF about kids names. Several were ruled out because she did not like so and so from college or earlier.

re: #133 windsagio

And everyone knows, Larry is damn annoying.

It's that nose picking, isn't it?

re: #195 Alouette

I like to cook with ginger. I have a big chunk in the fridge. What should I do, drop a slice in my tea?

that is a good method, if you like the pickled ginger that comes with sushi you can buy a whole jar for a coupla bucks & eat a coupla ounces at a time... it has other benefit too.

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

That sort of thing usually goes back to a girl in college...

Or, High School!

re: #211 b_sharp

It's that nose picking, isn't it?

More like

All those wedgies he gave
All those shoe strings he tied
All those brownies he made
With the Ex-lax inside...

While interesting, this debate is pointless. One could never prove nor disprove the existence of any supreme entity.
Carry on!
:)

re: #206 b_sharp

Religion certainly is good for keeping people in line, and for convincing them to take certain actions.

I do however, have trouble accepting the idea we don't kill Larry because Larry has worth. We don't kill Larry because of the cost/benefit ratio. Religion has the ability to skew the belief in what that ratio happens to be, even if it does not reflect reality.

Our current social conscience, which has been partially influenced by religion, does the same thing.

All cost benefit ratios are by definition subjective when looked at in this way.

My religion for example, will tell you flat out that buying those jeans that were sewn by a five year old is contributing to her murder.

I am actually rather proud that we are taught that sort of awareness.

re: #215 Varek Raith

While interesting, this debate is pointless. One could never prove nor disprove the existence of any supreme entity.
Carry on!
:)

True. It would be difficult for me to prove that something doesn't exist.

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

That sort of thing usually goes back to a girl in college...

or getting your ass kicked by a 5'4" Tia Kawn Dow guy...

Image: funny-pictures-cat-asks-for-cheeseburger.jpg

re: #215 Varek Raith

That's kinda the whole point of what LVQ and I have been saying tho >

reine de tout!

Just got my cookbooks and OMG. Fantastic, thank you!!! Jaunte ditto!!

re: #207 allegro

My point being that most any phenomenon that is used to point to the existence of a supreme being has been, or arguably will at some point, be explained through scientific means and measurements as not supernatural at all.

That is not what LVQ was talking about.

You can measure brain responses to beauty? Big surprise!

Seeing a response to something explains neither the response nor the thing.

"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." --Gandalf

re: #218 brookly red

or getting your ass kicked by a 5'4" Tia Kawn Dow guy...

Lol, I have met the 5'4, 65-300 year old short, bald, grinning Asian man... Who promptly picked on me in the dojo because I was so much larger and one of the top students. It is the serene smile of utter self satisfaction they get as you fly through the air upside down that sticks with you.

re: #217 Gus 802

True. It would be difficult for me to prove that something doesn't exist.

Heh, it's fun though. I used to be the "in your face" kind of atheist. Now, meh, what ever floats your boat. Just as long as you leave me out of your* religious belief.
:)
*Not you, Gus.

re: #221 Rightwingconspirator

reine de tout!

Just got my cookbooks and OMG. Fantastic, thank you!!! Jaunte ditto!!

Glad you like it!
It's pretty awesome! Major kudos to Jaunte, his assistant George G., Cato and everyone who submitted a recipe (or an entire Gardening Section of their Very Own) -

re: #221 Rightwingconspirator

reine de tout!

Just got my cookbooks and OMG. Fantastic, thank you!!! Jaunte ditto!!

Grrr.Still waiting out here in the cornfields!
Thanks Reine!

re: #220 windsagio

That's kinda the whole point of what LVQ and I have been saying tho >

I still think he/she/they do not exist. I just don't care for endless debates.
:)

re: #227 Varek Raith

I still think he/she/they do not exist. I just don't care for endless debates.
:)

Well said.

re: #130 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, I am not going to argue the other side.

However, it is not an invalid argument either. The argument that you refrain from killing Larry when he is annoying because Larry has incalculable worth endowed by the fabric of creation itself, is much stronger than you don't kill Larry in order to prevent Larry's friends from killing you or because you think Larry is useful even though annoying.

A self defining argument (a close relative of self justifying).

You don't know squat about why I wouldn't kill someone because they were annoying.

re: #224 Varek Raith

Thats a sign of growing up. You don't need to prove you're superior to the proles anymore*

*because, of course its already abundantly clear :D

re: #225 reine.de.tout

I am going to do one of these dishes for a party. I do a pool party every year. Heh. BTW-Lizards will be invited.

re: #227 Varek Raith

You can think that all you want, hell you could be right (altho I don't think you are :p)

Saying that its "PROVEN" is just silly tho' ;)

re: #215 Varek Raith

While interesting, this debate is pointless. One could never prove nor disprove the existence of any supreme entity.
Carry on!
:)

Proving or debating on the existence of g-d, from a faith point of view is pointless... if one believes, one believes. Belief is not knowledge, but it is sufficient for a faith in the existence of g-d.

But, you can question one who believes as to what was it, by what manner, by what idea, by... well... what was the foundational reason for that belief.

If a believer answer ANYTHING besides "it's just what I feel, what I feel I know, what I belief, I don't need anything "foundational" for my belief" then you do have a questionable position.

Because if you can attribute your belief to material like holy books, religious stories, assumed miracles or other "proofs" of that nature, then you are open to criticism and scientific disagreement.

You can't base you belief on flawed material, which most people do.

re: #223 LudwigVanQuixote

Lol, I have met the 5'4, 65-300 year old short, bald, grinning Asian man... Who promptly picked on me in the dojo because I was so much larger and one of the top students. It is the serene smile of utter self satisfaction they get as you fly through the air upside down that sticks with you.

I do the Chinese soft forms, & I could tell you some stories..

re: #223 LudwigVanQuixote

Did they teach you recounters to the moves?

re: #235 Rightwingconspirator

Did they teach you recounters to the moves?

getting out of the way is the best...

re: #232 windsagio

You can think that all you want, hell you could be right (altho I don't think you are :p)

Saying that its "PROVEN" is just silly tho' ;)

Proven, definitely not. Which is why this annoys me, as a deity that exists outside our very reality can never be tested. Just might as well not be there in my mind.
:shrugs: I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. :P

All should be made fun of, no exceptions.

It is the only safe way.

I salute Mel Brooks and Monty Python.

re: #224 Varek Raith

Heh, it's fun though. I used to be the "in your face" kind of atheist. Now, meh, what ever floats your boat. Just as long as you leave me out of your* religious belief.
:)
*Not you, Gus.

I've always been tempted to evangelize atheism but my track record proves otherwise. For the most part I've been trained in this society that it's not socially acceptable to do as such. However, society readily accepts the evangelizing of all religions.

That is coming to an end as we're seeing with the rapid growth of atheism. I never expected to see such growth in like minded people in my lifetime. It's about time since those of us that came before us had to endure nearly 2000 years of silence. So if some people want to capitalize Atheism, I welcome it. It's about time.

re: #135 HoosierHoops

Sorry I think you have it wrong...All scientists should on the face of it be agnostic...Look everybody knows the first Rainbow wasn't 6000 years ago..Light have passed through water particles for Billions of years...Yes there was a rainbow long before Noah..It's a fable my friends..
That doesn't mean there isn't God..The Lord Almighty...You don't get to prove God in Science...And by keeping it separate Mankind as made wonderful strides in Science...

Wonderful strides in science are hardly proof of existence. Those wonderful strides were made, possibly, because of the belief in a god, not because of the existence of a god.

God doesn't get an exception from science just because so many people have a huge investment in his/her/its existence.

As long as believers keep putting forward instances of their god(s) affecting reality, those instances can be examined, predictions made, and tests run on their validity.

So far, every instance has been shown to be false. If god/God can't interact with our physical world, then what kind of god is he/she/it?

re: #238 Ojoe

All should be made fun of, no exceptions.

It is the only safe way.

I salute Mel Brooks and Monty Python.

There's a very small percentile,
Who enjoys a dancing gentile,
I'm sad to be the one with this bad news!
But never mind your swordplay,
You just won't succeed on Broadway,
You just won't succeed on Broadway,
If you don't have any Jews!

re: #235 Rightwingconspirator

Did they teach you recounters to the moves?

Here's one that often works:

re: #229 Naso Tang

A self defining argument (a close relative of self justifying).

You don't know squat about why I wouldn't kill someone because they were annoying.

I claimed that the religious argument in this case is stronger than a utilitarian one or a subjective one. If you have a reason that is neither subjective or utilitarian, I will remove the assertion.

NB: here we see that atheists get just as cranky over their beliefs as believers.

re: #236 brookly red

Agreed. But I refer to the attacker having a recounter to the judo response. In other words breaking the throw at its inception.

re: #239 Gus 802

I've always been tempted to evangelize atheism but my track record proves otherwise. For the most part I've been trained in this society that it's not socially acceptable to do as such. However, society readily accepts the evangelizing of all religions.

That is coming to an end as we're seeing with the rapid growth of atheism. I never expected to see such growth in like minded people in my lifetime. It's about time since those of us that came before us had to endure nearly 2000 years of silence. So if some people want to capitalize Atheism, I welcome it. It's about time.

Fine, but don't start asking for tax-exempt status for your meeting rooms. That's reserved for Religions.

re: #237 Varek Raith

You're making a hell of a lot of sense for someone who doesn't know what they're talking about :P