Maine Republicans Adopt Completely Insane Platform

Politics • Views: 5,445

OK, here’s the “Wow!” moment of the day, as the Republican Party of Maine adopts a new party platform straight from the loony bin.

The official platform for the Republican Party of Maine is now a mix of right-wing fringe policies, libertarian buzzwords and outright conspiracy theories.

The document calls for the elimination of the Department of Education and the Federal Reserve, demands an investigation of “collusion between government and industry in the global warming myth,” suggests the adoption of “Austrian Economics,” declares that “‘Freedom of Religion’ does not mean ‘freedom from religion’” (which I guess makes atheism illegal), insists that “healthcare is not a right,” calls for the abrogation of the “UN Treaty on Rights of the Child” and the “Law Of The Sea Treaty” and declares that we must resist “efforts to create a one world government.”

It also contains favorable mentions of both the Tea Party and Ron Paul. You can read the whole thing here.

Good grief. The GOP meltdown is accelerating.

Jump to bottom

1232 comments
1 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 10:58:30am

One could call it Mainiacal.

2 Lidane  Mon, May 10, 2010 10:58:43am

OLIGARHY! SEEDS! GOLD!

Wow. I'd expect that sort of Luap Nor silliness here in the South, but Maine? WTF?

3 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 10:59:29am

What was Snowe's reaction?

4 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, May 10, 2010 10:59:52am

RON PAUL!!!

5 Lidane  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:00:27am

re: #3 Obdicut

What was Snowe's reaction?

Ouzo, probably.

6 AK-47%  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:02:03am

Austrian Economics? Is that not the name for Schwarzenegger's california budget?

7 jaunte  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:02:37am
We have let rot from within, the foundation upon which freedom and prosperity must be built for it to survive.


Well, there you go. "Rot" it is.

8 erraticsphinx  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:03:53am

These people are insane. And the GOP is so pathetic and so desperate they are only happy to let them all in.

9 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:04:23am

Page 4, letter G. (couldn't copy/paste)

10 AK-47%  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:04:32am

There is only one person fit to lead a party with a platform like that: Sarah Palin. But first somebody will have to get her a map and explain that Austria is not the place where they get kangaroos...

11 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:04:42am

Facepalm. This is straight out of Lew Rockwell's vault.

12 jaunte  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:04:54am

re: #9 Cannadian Club Akbar

g. Defeat Cap and Trade, investigate collusion between government and industry in the global warming myth, and prosecute any illegal collusion.

13 nines09  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:05:14am

And you thought it was only a movie? Ya Know?
Pvt. Joe Bowers: [addressing Congress] ... And there was a time in this country, a long time ago, when reading wasn't just for fags and neither was writing. People wrote books and movies, movies that had stories so you cared whose ass it was and why it was farting, and I believe that time can come again!

14 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:05:24am

re: #12 jaunte

g. Defeat Cap and Trade, investigate collusion between government and industry in the global warming myth, and prosecute any illegal collusion.

Thanks!!

15 EastSider  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:06:09am

Anyone else think of this?

16 badger1970  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:06:10am

Ah, coming from the state that produced Stephen King. Is it the water, weather or too much pine in the air? //

17 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:06:16am

re: #9 Cannadian Club Akbar

Page 4, letter G. (couldn't copy/paste)


I could:

Defeat Cap and Trade, investigate collusion between government and industry in the global warming myth, and prosecute any illegal collusion.

18 jaunte  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:06:20am

re: #14 Cannadian Club Akbar

What a useless circus that attempted prosecution would be.

19 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:06:34am

I see that one Dan Billings has called the new platform "wack job pablum" and "nutcase stuff."
No, he is not a delighted Democrat, but a GOP LAWYER.
If this gets much worse, Teddy Roosevelt is liable to rise from the grave and try to bitch slap some sanity back into this mob.

20 AK-47%  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:07:28am

re: #19 Shiplord Kirel

Glenn Beck would slap him right back down for being a "progressive".

21 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:08:10am

re: #18 jaunte

What a useless circus that attempted prosecution would be.

I'm sure Oily Tights has spare time.
/

22 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:08:10am

re: #19 Shiplord Kirel

I see that one Dan Billings has called the new platform "wack job pablum" and "nutcase stuff."
No, he is not a delighted Democrat, but a GOP LAWYER.
If this gets much worse, Teddy Roosevelt is liable to rise from the grave and try to bitch slap some sanity back into this mob.

Wouldn't work. Zombies need to eat brains and this pack hasn't got any, receivers in their heads tuned to whatever Glenn Beck is saying.

23 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:08:23am

And more:

VI. To Secure the Blessings of Liberty:
a. Restore a vigorous grounding in the history and precepts of liberty, freedom, and the constitution to the educational process. As Thomas Jefferson said, “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”
i. Eliminate the Department of Education and restore schools to local control as specified in the constitution.
b. Repeal and prohibit any participation in efforts to create a one world government

24 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:08:34am

re: #20 ralphieboy

Glenn Beck would slap him right back down for being a "progressive".

A RINO for sure. I would still put odds on Teddy, though, even 90 years dead.

25 lawhawk  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:08:54am

re: #19 Shiplord Kirel

And he'd be called a RINO for his efforts... heck, Reagan would probably be called a RINO if he tried talking sense to the right wing.

26 middy  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:09:12am

The faster the meltdown, the sooner a viable third party or reformation.

Bring on the crazy, I say.

27 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:09:17am

Was this posted? From the platform:

V. To Promote the General Welfare:

c. Pass and implement Fed bill #1207 (Introduced by Ron Paul), to Audit the Federal Reserve, as the first step in Ending the Fed.

Alex Jones meets the Maine GOP platform.

28 jaunte  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:09:20am

re: #23 Stanley Sea


“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”


Ha!

29 EastSider  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:09:24am

re: #24 Shiplord Kirel

A RINO for sure. I would still put odds on Teddy, though, even 90 years dead.

I'm reading Theodore Rex. Its very good. And yes, I'd take dead TR in the third round as a straight knockout of Glen Beck.

30 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:09:27am

re: #24 Shiplord Kirel

A RINO for sure. I would still put odds on Teddy, though, even 90 years dead.

Man took a bullet and kept on talking. Tough bird.

31 engineer cat  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:09:50am

i demand that the platform include the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition!

32 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:10:02am

re: #19 Shiplord Kirel

I see that one Dan Billings has called the new platform "wack job pablum" and "nutcase stuff."
No, he is not a delighted Democrat, but a GOP LAWYER.
If this gets much worse, Teddy Roosevelt is liable to rise from the grave and try to bitch slap some sanity back into this mob.

I for one welcome our new zombie Progressive President overlord...

/

33 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:10:14am
III. To Insure Domestic tranquility:

a. Promote family values.
i. Marriage is an institution between a man and a woman.

34 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:10:32am

re: #17 Stanley Sea

That's Lysenkoism, pure and simple. They hold a political belief and want to see scientists prosecuted because reality diverges from that belief.

The irony is astounding.

35 RadicalModerate  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:10:42am

Doing a bit of reading on the Austrian Economics idea. The best analogy I can think of is this.

It's creationism applied to monetary policy.

36 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:11:01am

Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion... So we are not free to not listen to religious views we don't like or does that mean we can be forced to practice a state religion?

Everyone should be terrified of this first and foremost. Except for the following of course.

No rights of children?

Healthcare is not a right - but I'm sure owning guns is....

Look to corporations for pushing the "myth" of AGW?

This is the GOP? Yeah. We now see that a critical mass has happened in the wingnutsphere. The GOP kicked out all the adults and we are left with this. I am reminded of the Girondists being removed by the Jacobins and the Sans Coulettes.

Don't worry, nothing that strikes of terror happened then.

37 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:12:47am

I'm waiting on calls to annex the Sudetanland to start showing up at Tea Parties.

38 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:13:45am
b. Direct the State of Maine to join with other states in asserting our 10th amendment sovereignty rights which protect us from unconstitutional federal government intrusions.

I do want to hear Snowe's take on this.

39 erraticsphinx  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:13:51am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They'll want to take back Texas and Arizona first!

/I think.

40 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:14:08am

re: #36 ludwigvanquixote

Check out the Lynsenkoism in what Stanley Sea and jaunte posted.

41 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:14:14am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm waiting on calls to annex the Sudetanland to start showing up at Tea Parties.

First we need a corridor to Alaska.

42 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:14:27am

re: #36 ludwigvanquixote

Eh, but I think of the Tea Party as more of a counter-revolutionary force; I'm not up on my revolutionary history, but I'm fairly certain there have been examples of counter-rev terror.

43 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:15:14am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm waiting on calls to annex the Sudetanland to start showing up at Tea Parties.

NO shit.

The thing is, this wasn't the tea parties, these are GOP. I am waiting for someone to have the courage to tell these fuckers that the US Constitution is not there for them to wipe their asses with, and that the actual real Americans will fight to defend our liberties.

44 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:15:26am

The last line in their platform....

b. Repeal and prohibit any participation in efforts to create a one world government.


Lol!

45 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:15:28am

The tone of this platform is nasty:

i. Restore the process of assimilation of immigrants to preserve the benefits of an advanced educated and prosperous society. Rescind Maine’s sanctuary State status. No amnesty, no benefits, no citizenship -ever- for anyone in the country illegally. Arrest and detain, for a specified period of time, anyone here illegally, and then deport, period.

46 EastSider  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:15:30am

Anyone else surprised there hasn't been more of a RW outrage over Holder angling for decreased Miranda rights for suspected terrorists?

47 Mark Pennington  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:15:40am

re: #17 Stanley Sea

Wow, just wow.

48 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:15:50am

BBL

49 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:16:34am

I'm insurrecting. Where's my wife when I need her?

50 Linden Arden  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:16:54am

So now I know what American "Exceptionalism" means to these conservative nutcases.

It means the laws of physics, biology, law, philosophy, and common sense doesn't apply to them.

51 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:17:33am

re: #42 Guanxi88

Eh, but I think of the Tea Party as more of a counter-revolutionary force; I'm not up on my revolutionary history, but I'm fairly certain there have been examples of counter-rev terror.

Ahh, Hungary, and the destruction of Bela Kun's soviet regime. There's at least one, comparatively recent instance.

52 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:17:39am

re: #46 EastSider

Anyone else surprised there hasn't been more of a RW outrage over Holder angling for decreased Miranda rights for suspected terrorists?

Outrage does not apply to those deemed outside the Collective.

53 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:17:39am

Austrian Economics?

54 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:18:06am

re: #45 Gus 802

Let's just force them to actually adopt this. Make the hospitals in Maine check everyone's citizenship before treating them. Hell, make paramedics. Bleed out before your wife can get your birth certificate to the scene of the accident? Too bad, you might have been an undocumented alien, and we can't give those people benefits.

Not that I would actually want that, but it is the logical outgrowth of what they want.

55 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:18:08am

re: #46 EastSider

Anyone else surprised there hasn't been more of a RW outrage over Holder angling for decreased Miranda rights for suspected terrorists?

why would there be rightwing outrage over that (except insofar as they attack everything Obama or any Obama appointee does)?

The only people I've seen getting upset over that are (largely) on the left-- civil libertarians.

56 badger1970  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:18:39am

re: #36 ludwigvanquixote

This is the same play that the whigs went through in the 19th century. A little political blood-letting might actually be good for sane conservatives to see what actual screw-balls (picture Bugs Bunny slide) the tea-partiers are.

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:19:06am

re: #2 Lidane

OLIGARHY! SEEDS! GOLD!

Wow. I'd expect that sort of Luap Nor silliness here in the South, but Maine? WTF?

How many Republicans are there in Maine, anyway?

58 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:19:19am

re: #42 Guanxi88

Eh, but I think of the Tea Party as more of a counter-revolutionary force; I'm not up on my revolutionary history, but I'm fairly certain there have been examples of counter-rev terror.

You are correct that the parallel to the French Revolution is not in terms of what slogans were spouted. The parallel is to what happens when all the sane folks are eaten by their own movement and you are only left with the uneducated but angry, and those who exploit them.

As to historical counter revolutionary terror, there is just as much of it as revolutionary terror. Dozens of examples exist, but I would point out that the US did quite a number on the Confederacy.

59 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:19:25am

re: #43 ludwigvanquixote

NO shit.

The thing is, this wasn't the tea parties, these are GOP. I am waiting for someone to have the courage to tell these fuckers that the US Constitution is not there for them to wipe their asses with, and that the actual real Americans will fight to defend our liberties.

"The GOP" is a vessel. The people who show up to the caucuses and other party functions fill that vessel and become the GOP. The ones who showed up in Maine are tea partiers. They now own the GOP there. That's also what has happened in my county.

60 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:19:34am

re: #3 Obdicut

What was Snowe's reaction?

It was in Greek, but we understood the hand gestures.

61 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:20:07am

re: #16 badger1970

Stephen King was a great author up until a few years ago.

62 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:20:12am

re: #53 Varek Raith

Austrian Economics?

That should be a giant warning to you. Mises.

63 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:20:51am

re: #50 Linden Arden

So now I know what American "Exceptionalism" means to these conservative nutcases.

It means the laws of physics, biology, law, philosophy, and common sense doesn't apply to them.

The wingnut culture warriors have always held a version of American Exceptionalism: Some Americans are more equal than others.

(white, straight, Christian, male, etc)

64 jaunte  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:20:59am

re: #46 EastSider

Anyone else surprised there hasn't been more of a RW outrage over Holder angling for decreased Miranda rights for suspected terrorists?

There was a little on Fox this morning; the objection was that the fiddle was to the wrong (criminal justice) side of the available tools, and that enemy combatant status was the right way to deal with the accused.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:21:00am

re: #16 badger1970

Ah, coming from the state that produced Stephen King. Is it the water, weather or too much pine in the air? //

Anything like this in New England I tend to attribute to the malign spirits of old ladies who were unjustly executed for witchcraft.

66 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:21:26am

OT:

National Democrats Bow Out of Hawaii Race

Democrat-on-Democrat battles are under way in several primary contests around the country. But few are as intense – or symbolic – as the fight under way for a special election on May 22 in Hawaii’s First Congressional District.

The acrimony between two Democratic candidates has grown so intense that the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee announced Monday that it was essentially throwing in the towel – for now – to save money to spend in the fall election.

“Local Democrats were unable to work out their differences,” said Jennifer Crider, a spokeswoman for the committee. “The D.C.C.C. will save the resources we would have invested in the Hawaii special election this month for the general election in November.”

The race carries an extra measure of symbolism because it is unfolding in President Obama’s native state and the district where he spent his teen-age years. The contest is to fill the seat of Representative Neil Abercrombie, a Democrat, who stepped down to run for governor.

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:21:42am

re: #20 ralphieboy

Glenn Beck would slap him right back down for being a "progressive".

In a fight between Teddy Roosevelt and Glenn Beck...I don't think there can be any doubt as to the outcome.

68 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:21:52am

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

Frankly, I've been disappointed that she hasn't stood up to the craziness more. I thought she would be leading the charge against it.

I know it's political suicide right now, but it will be very, very hard for me to ever respect any member of the GOP who hasn't condemned the crap that's currently going on. I'm sure they'll all be lining up to condemn it after the tide recedes, leaving scum at the high-water mark. I want to see people fighting it now, when it's strong.

69 EastSider  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:21:53am

re: #45 Gus 802

The tone of this platform is nasty:

i. Restore the process of assimilation of immigrants to preserve the benefits of an advanced educated and prosperous society. Rescind Maine’s sanctuary State status. No amnesty, no benefits, no citizenship -ever- for anyone in the country illegally. Arrest and detain, for a specified period of time, anyone here illegally, and then deport, period.

Okay. I love it. It at least gives us something to work with.

Anyone want to run the numbers on how much it would cost to "arrest, detain, and deport" 10M illegal immigrants right now?

I'm not even talking the economic impact of every restaurant in NYC closing because their kitchen just got deported, I'm not even talking judical costs as people with "gray area" statuses challenge their deportation.

I'm talking the logistics costs of moving 10M people from this country to another. Hell, I'll even give the benefit that they're completely willing to go.

If you assume it will cost $1,000 per person to locate, confirm illegality, and transport to another country (probably a conservative estimate), congratulations, you just spent $10B. Now if you look at the actual costs I noted above, you may be asking to spend closer to $100B or even $1T.

But this kind of a conversation would have to occur between adults--and not ostrich headed radicals who don't understand that the world is not as simple as they want it to be.

70 Tigger2005  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:22:32am

“collusion between government and industry in the global warming myth,”

Hey, some sanity here! There definitely seems to be some degree of collusion between some people in government and industry to deny that global warming is happening.

Oh, they mean the claim that it IS happening is a myth? My bad.

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:22:33am

re: #23 Stanley Sea

And more:

ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT?

OY. Also, does it really say in the Constitution that schools are under local control?

72 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:22:48am

re: #63 iceweasel

The wingnut culture warriors have always held a version of American Exceptionalism: Some Americans are more equal than others.

(white, straight, Christian, male, etc)

What shocks me is that this is going on in the region that folks like Ethan Allen and John Adams came from. The true old Yankee patriots would weep.

73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:23:08am

re: #68 Obdicut

I don't think they can decide which direction the tide is moving. The 21st Century definition of leadership?

Find out which way the mob is charging? Jump in front and point in that direction.

74 EastSider  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:23:23am

re: #55 iceweasel

why would there be rightwing outrage over that (except insofar as they attack everything Obama or any Obama appointee does)?

The only people I've seen getting upset over that are (largely) on the left-- civil libertarians.

I kind of figure'd the Conspiracy nuts would say that this is the first step towards Obama illegally detaining tea partiers...I guess they haven't put together yet that a "suspected terrorist" can also be white.

75 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:23:36am

re: #54 Obdicut

Let's just force them to actually adopt this. Make the hospitals in Maine check everyone's citizenship before treating them. Hell, make paramedics. Bleed out before your wife can get your birth certificate to the scene of the accident? Too bad, you might have been an undocumented alien, and we can't give those people benefits.

Not that I would actually want that, but it is the logical outgrowth of what they want.

It's strange. There was never really an official "process of assimilation of immigrants" in this country. That was typically left to social pressure and that remains in place. Assimilation by and large equal survival and a better standard of living. However, I find it troubling that one would promote an idea of an official "process of assimilation."

I also find the idea of not allowing amnesty ever to be troubling. That's a blanket denial and I doubt anyone who calls themselves a "patriot" would be wanting to deny amnesty (had they been illegal) for the family or spouse of a soldier that served in Iraq or Afghanistan -- which has occurred already.

76 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:24:05am

re: #23 Stanley Sea

And more:


VI. To Secure the Blessings of Liberty:
a. Restore a vigorous grounding in the history and precepts of liberty, freedom, and the constitution to the educational process. As Thomas Jefferson said, “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”

I'm confused. I thought the good Texan Board of Education erased Jefferson from history? What's a wingnut to do...quote Jefferson or forget Jefferson...so hard...head hurting...//

77 Tigger2005  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:24:08am

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

In a fight between Teddy Roosevelt and Glenn Beck...I don't think there can be any doubt as to the outcome.

That would be such an unfair matchup, it isn't even funny.

But I'd laugh anyway.

78 EastSider  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:24:22am

re: #63 iceweasel

The wingnut culture warriors have always held a version of American Exceptionalism: Some Americans are more equal than others.

(white, straight, Christian, male, etc)

what's the etc for? That's the end of the list.

79 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:24:40am

Huh. Yahoo news? Gordon Brown is resigning.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:25:01am

re: #46 EastSider

Anyone else surprised there hasn't been more of a RW outrage over Holder angling for decreased Miranda rights for suspected terrorists?

Why? They should love it.

I, on the other hand, have nearly levitated off the ground with rage three or four times so far. I may be able to fly if this keeps up.

81 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:25:07am

re: #56 badger1970

This is the same play that the whigs went through in the 19th century. A little political blood-letting might actually be good for sane conservatives to see what actual screw-balls (picture Bugs Bunny slide) the tea-partiers are.

I've long thought that the only way out of a crisis is to go through it.re: #76 Aceofwhat?

I'm confused. I thought the good Texan Board of Education erased Jefferson from history? What's a wingnut to do...quote Jefferson or forget Jefferson...so hard...head hurting...//

Now, Texas didn't cut out Jefferson, they just de-listed him from the ranks of Enlightenment philosophers.

82 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:25:30am

Afternoon.

Can anybody join this party, or do I need an invite?

83 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:25:31am

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You're right. I should say "If the tide recedes". The theocrats and bugnut-crazy Paulians may win, in the end.

And what an America that would be.

84 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:25:38am

re: #68 Obdicut

Frankly, I've been disappointed that she hasn't stood up to the craziness more. I thought she would be leading the charge against it.

I know it's political suicide right now, but it will be very, very hard for me to ever respect any member of the GOP who hasn't condemned the crap that's currently going on. I'm sure they'll all be lining up to condemn it after the tide recedes, leaving scum at the high-water mark. I want to see people fighting it now, when it's strong.

Yes. It is obvious that the GOP does not have the courage to police their own. The propaganda they have legitimatized from Fox and the wingnuts has taken on a life of its own. The lost the tiger's tail. If they fight it now, they have to admit how they fed the tiger in the first place. They will have no such courage.

Personally, I think the intelligence check is going to come when one of these medieval morons pulls a McVeigh.

85 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:25:53am

re: #79 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Huh. Yahoo news? Gordon Brown is resigning.

[Link: www.thesun.co.uk...]

86 badger1970  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:26:50am

re: #61 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

True, but his writing was still out there in his prime.

87 EastSider  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:26:55am

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

Why? They should love it.

I, on the other hand, have nearly levitated off the ground with rage three or four times so far. I may be able to fly if this keeps up.

see my 74

88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:27:15am

re: #85 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, there is that?

Thanks Mr. Site McCiter.

89 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:27:39am

re: #72 LudwigVanQuixote

What shocks me is that this is going on in the region that folks like Ethan Allen and John Adams came from. The true old Yankee patriots would weep.

Anyone else getting the sense that this is what the GOP wants their conventions to look like?

Sounds like a speech they'd like too...

90 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:27:40am

BBL

91 avanti  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:28:07am

re: #76 Aceofwhat?

I'm confused. I thought the good Texan Board of Education erased Jefferson from history? What's a wingnut to do...quote Jefferson or forget Jefferson...so hard...head hurting...//

No, quote Jefferson when it suits your purpose, ignore the facts that support that he was a deist. Sort of like what they do with Christ teachings in the Bible, just follow the stuff you like.

92 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:28:10am

re: #88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, there is that?

Thanks Mr. Site McCiter.

You started it.

93 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:28:12am

It seems odd to me that people who scream so much about "educating the children" seem to reject all scientific, political and economic knowledge and ideology which has been developed since the Enlightenment.

94 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:28:12am

re: #75 Gus 802

I remember my grandfather speaking with pride about how he could still speak Icelandic, Danish, and Swedish. Every Christmas we had with him was celebrated Scandinavian style. He loved America, but had the audacity to say that looking at other countries was a good way of figuring out how to do things better here.

Somehow, the unassimilated nature of his Scandinavian heritage never bothered anyone.

I also find the idea of not allowing amnesty ever to be troubling. That's a blanket denial and I doubt anyone who calls themselves a "patriot" would be wanting to deny amnesty (had they been illegal) for the family or spouse of a soldier that served in Iraq or Afghanistan -- which has occurred already.

Exactly. These are the people who accuse the government of not being responsive to individuals-- and they want a policy that would grind away any individual human difference.

Why do the supposed champions of individuality refuse to deal with nuance?

95 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:28:26am

re: #83 Obdicut

You're right. I should say "If the tide recedes". The theocrats and bugnut-crazy Paulians may win, in the end.

And what an America that would be.

Well how do lower class uneducated populist revolutions turn out? In this case it does not matter if they are left or right. The violence and the memes used to incite the masses are basically the same.

But because these assholes are very much more like nazis than commie or we should stick to the nazi meme. The nazi meme is exemplified by the racism.

96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:28:30am

re: #86 badger1970

The "out there" made it great. I thought you were being anti-King.

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:28:31am

re: #74 EastSider

I kind of figure'd the Conspiracy nuts would say that this is the first step towards Obama illegally detaining tea partiers...I guess they haven't put together yet that a "suspected terrorist" can also be white.

It is odd. They were so upset about the DHS report on right-wingers.

98 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:29:00am

re: #69 EastSider

Okay. I love it. It at least gives us something to work with.

Anyone want to run the numbers on how much it would cost to "arrest, detain, and deport" 10M illegal immigrants right now?

I'm not even talking the economic impact of every restaurant in NYC closing because their kitchen just got deported, I'm not even talking judical costs as people with "gray area" statuses challenge their deportation.

I'm talking the logistics costs of moving 10M people from this country to another. Hell, I'll even give the benefit that they're completely willing to go.

If you assume it will cost $1,000 per person to locate, confirm illegality, and transport to another country (probably a conservative estimate), congratulations, you just spent $10B. Now if you look at the actual costs I noted above, you may be asking to spend closer to $100B or even $1T.

But this kind of a conversation would have to occur between adults--and not ostrich headed radicals who don't understand that the world is not as simple as they want it to be.

Gets even better when you read the Grassfire or FAIR numbers. They're claiming 30 million illegals. Logistically that's impossible. They can't even run the no fly list in a smooth manner. They'd never be able to coral 30 million people and send them back to their home country. The cost would be mind boggling and so would the international repercussions because half of all illegal immigrant do not come from Mexico. Many come from China or other nations that would require return flights. Those countries would not be ready to accept this form of repatriation.

Mind you I'm not calling for doing nothing. It's just that we have to do this right and it may and should include a route to citizenship which many would call amnesty -- which isn't cheap by the way. They were last talking paying fines of up to 2000 dollars.

99 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:29:02am

re: #63 iceweasel

The wingnut culture warriors have always held a version of American Exceptionalism: Some Americans are more equal than others.

(white, straight, Christian, male, etc)

*white, straight Christian male fidgets nervously...*

Vote for Crist!

;)

100 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:29:02am

re: #82 b_sharp

Afternoon.

Can anybody join this party, or do I need an invite?

This aint no party, this aint no disco, this aint no fooling around.

101 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:29:12am

re: #93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hell, the attacks on scientists, peer review, and the scientific method are basically an attack on the Enlightenment itself.

102 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:29:56am

re: #89 iceweasel

Anyone else getting the sense that this is what the GOP wants their conventions to look like?


[Video]Sounds like a speech they'd like too...

Here's what I'd like to hear, as spoken by my favorite fictional PM:

103 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:30:00am

re: #89 iceweasel

Anyone else getting the sense that this is what the GOP wants their conventions to look like?


[Video]

Sounds like a speech they'd like too...

Ohh honey, I have been pointing out the nazi/tea-bag link for weeks now.

We are starting to see this shit catalyze. The next step will be a kristalnacht for "illegal immigrants."

104 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:30:28am

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

This aint no party, this aint no disco, this aint no fooling around.

This ain't no Mud Club, or CBGB
I ain't got time for that now.

105 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:30:29am

re: #94 Obdicut

I remember my grandfather speaking with pride about how he could still speak Icelandic, Danish, and Swedish. Every Christmas we had with him was celebrated Scandinavian style.

My sister in law's Danish Christmas dinner is my favorite holiday meal. I always bring homemade rugbroed.

106 badger1970  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:30:37am

re: #96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sorry, for the confusion.

107 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:31:57am

re: #104 Guanxi88

This ain't no Mud Club, or CBGB
I ain't got time for that now.

Upding for CBGB reference. I had a CBGB shirt years ago. I miss it.

108 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:32:08am

Hey...

Someone hacked into the Republican party and deleted all the sane followers that they had left. I bet it was someone from LGF.

109 RogueOne  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:32:14am

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT?

OY. Also, does it really say in the Constitution that schools are under local control?

Yes, the 10th Amendment. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

110 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:32:41am

re: #94 Obdicut

I remember my grandfather speaking with pride about how he could still speak Icelandic, Danish, and Swedish. Every Christmas we had with him was celebrated Scandinavian style. He loved America, but had the audacity to say that looking at other countries was a good way of figuring out how to do things better here.

Somehow, the unassimilated nature of his Scandinavian heritage never bothered anyone.

Exactly. These are the people who accuse the government of not being responsive to individuals-- and they want a policy that would grind away any individual human difference.

Why do the supposed champions of individuality refuse to deal with nuance?

My folks came here and started learning English on their own. No classes and it was basically done with a dictionary. From Argentina they were fluent in Spanish. However, my dad had already learned Latin in the Seminary and my mom was rather fluent in French. So they had a talent for languages already. Nothing was ever done through coercion.

Almost everyone that came here learned English -- short of one aunt and uncle from Cuba that were already up there in years and never learned how to speak English.

111 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:33:28am

re: #95 LudwigVanQuixote

Well how do lower class uneducated populist revolutions turn out? In this case it does not matter if they are left or right. The violence and the memes used to incite the masses are basically the same.

But because these assholes are very much more like nazis than commie or we should stick to the nazi meme. The nazi meme is exemplified by the racism.

Not just the racism. The nationalism-- the desire for a 'pure' America, the need to rewrite American history...lots of stuff.

112 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:33:53am

re: #110 Gus 802

I know some adults that moved her and gave up on learning English. Every single one of them is determined that their children learn English.

And English isn't even our national language.

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:34:31am

re: #109 RogueOne

Yes, the 10th Amendment. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

That's not local control, that's state or non-federal control. Local control is just how we've traditionally handled schools.

114 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:34:54am

re: #112 Obdicut

I know some adults that moved her and gave up on learning English. Every single one of them is determined that their children learn English.

And English isn't even our national language.

We speak American!!
///

115 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:35:40am

re: #114 Cannadian Club Akbar

We speak American!!
///

We embrace our noble Klingon heritage.

116 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:35:41am

re: #114 Cannadian Club Akbar

We speak American!!
///

Galactic Basic.

117 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:36:25am

re: #93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It seems odd to me that people who scream so much about "educating the children" seem to reject all scientific, political and economic knowledge and ideology which has been developed since the Enlightenment.

That is the point. It is an open declaration that they want to remove the science from eh teaching of their children- in addition to inconvenient history, sexual education and the notion that other cultures exist.

Let's get it clear. These people are not just batshit. They are directly opposed to the modern world as presented from the Enlightenment. They are opposed to the very foundations of this nation - while wrapped in the flag.

The want to subvert our justice system and its legal principles, throw out enshrined liberties of the Constitution, re-write our history to create a bizarre vision of an earlier and much more brutal time and destroy learning.

I have never seen in my life such dedicated enemies of America on our own soil. They must be defeated. Don't just call them crazy. These people are the enemies of America.

118 RogueOne  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:36:59am

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

That's not local control, that's state or non-federal control. Local control is just how we've traditionally handled schools.

I consider that the same thing. Anything not taken by the feds is "local" in my book.

119 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:37:29am

uh oh, looks like the nazis are coming.

120 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:37:40am

re: #118 RogueOne

Californians find that definition amusing.

121 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:38:00am

This thread is all hornet's nesty, I'm not sure a foreigner like me should be pokin' anything.

Gotta ask though - if I travel through Maine am I going to have to feign religion?

122 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:38:14am

re: #111 iceweasel

Not just the racism. The nationalism-- the desire for a 'pure' America, the need to rewrite American history...lots of stuff.

Oh yes.

Let's remunerate it:

This point can not be over stated.When I talk about Nazism, I am not talking about American Nazis goose-stepping down our streets. We are not there yet. I am talking about the trends and memes that spread through Germany in the Twenties and thirties that led to Nazism.

Let me point out a few of them.

They griped a lot about a mythic past that never existed as an example of a shining birthright that was stolen from the average German.

They used a message that a corrupt and weak government was loyal to foreigners before Germany.

They argued that the real Germans couldn't make it in Germany anymore because of those traitors within. Those traitors were at first, immigrants, homosexuals, intellectuals, union members and of course Jews. In America, the message is not pointed at Jews yet.

They saw communists everywhere. They spread fear that communists secretly controlled the government and would take over and destroy all German liberties.

They flirted with notions of pay back and violence and the meme that the oppressed, natural master would take back his "rightful place."

They pitched all manner of outrageous conspiracy theories. Those communists and leftists and intellectuals and elites were violent and out to get them.

It all played upon the racial fears of Germans who felt they had no control over their lives. But after working that fear into a lather, they represented a "voice of resistance." The individual German could now be seduced into thinking he too would be a Hero of his people and save his culture.

It was backed by well funded industrialists who spread a disproportionate voice to the movement through the media.

This message is pure evil.

123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:38:48am

re: #121 b_sharp

This thread is all hornet's nesty, I'm not sure a foreigner like me should be pokin' anything.

Gotta ask though - if I travel through Maine am I going to have to feign religion?

Oh, why not. It appears that many of them do.

124 RogueOne  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:38:51am

re: #120 Obdicut

Californians find that definition amusing.

Don't even get me started about california./

125 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:39:02am

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

In a fight between Teddy Roosevelt and Glenn Beck...I don't think there can be any doubt as to the outcome.

Though if faced with Glenn Beck Teddy (leader of the ZIP* Party) would starve...

* - Zombie Independent Progressives

126 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:39:17am

re: #116 Varek Raith

Galactic Basic.

Goopta mo bossa!

127 RogueOne  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:39:27am

re: #119 cliffster

uh oh, looks like the nazis are coming.

I took that as sarcasm.

128 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:40:31am

I wonder if they would have considered Lend-Lease to be unconstitutional? Guess that would require some reading for a defense:

U.S. Constitution: Article II
INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS WITHOUT SENATE APPROVAL

The capacity of the United States to enter into agreements with other nations is not exhausted in the treaty-making power. The Constitution recognizes a distinction between ''treaties'' and ''agreements'' or ''compacts'' but does not indicate what the difference is. 388 The differences, which once may have been clearer, have been seriously blurred in practice within recent decades. Once a stepchild in the family in which treaties were the preferred offspring, the executive agreement has surpassed in number and perhaps in international influence the treaty formally signed, submitted for ratification to the Senate, and proclaimed upon ratification.

129 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:40:34am

re: #127 RogueOne

I took that as sarcasm.

It is his first language.

130 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:40:36am

re: #117 LudwigVanQuixote


I have never seen in my life such dedicated enemies of America on our own soil. They must be defeated. Don't just call them crazy. These people are the enemies of America.

I hate them at least as much as you, but let's call them the enemies of American ideals and the American promise, and reserve the term 'enemies of america' for those americans who are actually calling for sedition and civil war and the like. (which is unfortunately a lot of the baggers).

*Leftie here, got called unamerican or an enemy of America constantly under the Bush years (and quite a bit here). Would like to see a moratorium on calling other Americans 'enemies of America'--except when they actually are.

131 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:40:40am

re: #121 b_sharp

This thread is all hornet's nesty, I'm not sure a foreigner like me should be pokin' anything.

Gotta ask though - if I travel through Maine am I going to have to feign religion?

If they get their way, apparently - at gunpoint. Though it really depends if you are white or not.

132 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:40:40am

re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We embrace our noble Klingon heritage.

Our glorious simian heritage, to quote W.S. Burroughs:

“Ladies and gentlemen it is my coveted privilege and deep honor to introduce to you the distinguished Senator and former Justice of the Supreme Court Homer Mandrill known to his many friends as the Purple Better One. No doubt most of you are familiar with a book called African Genesis written by Robert Ardrey a native son of Chicago and I may add a true son of America. I quote from Mr. Ardrey’s penetrating work: ‘When I was a boy in Chicago I attended the Sunday School of a neighborhood Presbyterian church. I recall our Wednesday-night meetings with the simplest nostalgia. We would meet in the basement. There would be a short prayer and a shorter benediction. And we would turn out all the lights and in total darkness hit each other with chairs.’
“Mr. Ardrey’s early training tempered his character to face and make known the truth about the origins and nature of mankind. ‘Not in innocence and not in Asia was mankind born. The home of our fathers was the African highland on a sky-swept savannah glowing with menace. The most significant of all our gifts was the legacy bequeathed us by our immediate forebears a race of terrestrial, flesh-eating killer apes . . . Raymond A. Dart of the University Of Johannesburg was
the strident voice from South Africa that would prove the southern ape to be the human ancestor. Dart put forward the simple thesis that Man emerged from the anthropoid background for one reason only: because he was a killer. A rock, a stick, a heavy bone was to our ancestral killer ape the margin of survival . . .And he said that since we had tried everything else we might in last resort try the truth . . .Man’s original nature imposes itself on any human solution.’
“The aggressive southern ape suh, glowing with menace, fought your battles on the perilous veldts of Africa 500,000 years ago. Had he not done so you would not be living here in this great city in this great land of America raising your happy families in peace and prosperity. Who more fitted to represent our glorious Simian heritage than Homer Mandrill himself a descendent of that illustrious line? Who else can restore to this nation the spirit of true conservatism that imposes itself on any human solution? What candidate is better fitted for the highest office in the land at a time when this great republic is threatened by enemies foreign and domestic? Actually, there can be only one candidate: The Purple Batter One your future President.”

133 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:40:44am

re: #121 b_sharp

This thread is all hornet's nesty, I'm not sure a foreigner like me should be pokin' anything.

Gotta ask though - if I travel through Maine am I going to have to feign religion?

i don't think so. but if you run into a bear, i would suggest giving it a fair shot;)

134 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:41:27am

re: #122 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh yes.

Let's remunerate it:

This point can not be over stated.When I talk about Nazism, I am not talking about American Nazis goose-stepping down our streets. We are not there yet. I am talking about the trends and memes that spread through Germany in the Twenties and thirties that led to Nazism.

Let me point out a few of them.

They griped a lot about a mythic past that never existed as an example of a shining birthright that was stolen from the average German.

They used a message that a corrupt and weak government was loyal to foreigners before Germany.

They argued that the real Germans couldn't make it in Germany anymore because of those traitors within. Those traitors were at first, immigrants, homosexuals, intellectuals, union members and of course Jews. In America, the message is not pointed at Jews yet.

They saw communists everywhere. They spread fear that communists secretly controlled the government and would take over and destroy all German liberties.

They flirted with notions of pay back and violence and the meme that the oppressed, natural master would take back his "rightful place."

They pitched all manner of outrageous conspiracy theories. Those communists and leftists and intellectuals and elites were violent and out to get them.

It all played upon the racial fears of Germans who felt they had no control over their lives. But after working that fear into a lather, they represented a "voice of resistance." The individual German could now be seduced into thinking he too would be a Hero of his people and save his culture.

It was backed by well funded industrialists who spread a disproportionate voice to the movement through the media.

This message is pure evil.

Quoted for truth.

135 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:42:17am

re: #130 iceweasel


*Leftie here, got called unamerican or an enemy of America constantly under the Bush years (and quite a bit here). Would like to see a moratorium on calling other Americans 'enemies of America'--except when they actually are.

motion seconded...

136 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:42:52am

OIC:


The Home School Legal Defense Association has stated that the CRC threatens homeschooling and that the government could tell you to stop homeschooling your child if they deemed it against the best interest of the child.

Link.

137 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:43:21am

re: #130 iceweasel

I hate them at least as much as you, but let's call them the enemies of American ideals and the American promise, and reserve the term 'enemies of america' for those americans who are actually calling for sedition and civil war and the like. (which is unfortunately a lot of the baggers).

*Leftie here, got called unamerican or an enemy of America constantly under the Bush years (and quite a bit here). Would like to see a moratorium on calling other Americans 'enemies of America'--except when they actually are.

Yeah, but as you point out, many are calling for insurrection.

But America is much more than a land. It is an ideal. They are trying to kill the ideal. To my mind, it is that ideal which makes Aerica and forms us as a nation and polity worth preserving. America in this view is so much more important that land or even lives - as all those who fought in places like Normandy, and Gettysburg and Yorktown believed.

No Ice, these people are enemies of America.

138 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:43:28am

Oh look!

FDR Signed Lend-lease Bill He Called Unconstitutional

I could probably look for other examples that "saved our ass" in the long run.

139 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:43:32am

Paging Senators Snowe and Collins...Party switch on line two.

140 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:44:25am

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't think they can decide which direction the tide is moving. The 21st Century definition of leadership?

Find out which way the mob is charging? Jump in front and point in that direction.

I thought it was yell and point from a safe distance behind to avoid being run over. And then go loot the bank while the mob was keeping the police busy elsewhere.

Characters like Sam Starfall organize mobs and leads them, (or more correctly gets chased by them) - but I think he does it from a combination of habit and instinct.

141 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:44:53am

re: #131 LudwigVanQuixote

If they get their way, apparently - at gunpoint. Though it really depends if you are white or not.

Whew, guess I dodged at least one bullet. It doesn't look good for my wife though, I doubt she could pull of being white as well as I can being religious.

I was kind of hoping the dimwit tomfoolery was going to be restricted to the far south states. It starting to look like a vacation in the States is a no go.

142 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:45:12am

NATO
Kosovo
Vietnam

143 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:45:30am

re: #117 LudwigVanQuixote

I have never seen in my life such dedicated enemies of America on our own soil. They must be defeated. Don't just call them crazy. These people are the enemies of America.

I have seen them lots of times. I just haven't seen them take the reins of the Republican Party before. They usually sit behind the curtain, over in the wings.

144 RogueOne  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:45:42am

re: #138 Gus 802

Oh look!

FDR Signed Lend-lease Bill He Called Unconstitutional

I could probably look for other examples that "saved our ass" in the long run.

It's alright to subvert the constitution if it's for a good cause.

145 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:46:00am

Korean War ---> UN

Unconstitutional?

146 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:46:06am

re: #141 b_sharp

Whew, guess I dodged at least one bullet. It doesn't look good for my wife though, I doubt she could pull of being white as well as I can being religious.

I was kind of hoping the dimwit tomfoolery was going to be restricted to the far south states. It starting to look like a vacation in the States is a no go.

Don't matter really, I don't think that Maine would let you over the border.

147 RogueOne  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:47:26am

re: #146 Walter L. Newton

Don't matter really, I don't think that Maine would let you over the border.

According to the article main is a sanctuary state. Sharp could just move in and stay, everyone else does.

148 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:47:26am

re: #144 RogueOne

It's alright to subvert the constitution if it's for a good cause.

Right -- yet "good cause" tends to be rather subjective for many people. The Constitution is rarely subverted however.

149 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:47:31am

re: #109 RogueOne

Yes, the 10th Amendment. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The problem is people wanting to tell other people what to do. What to worship and what not to worship, who to fuck and who not to fuck. What to eat and what not to eat. How you should spend your money. Whether you should wear a seat belt. There seems to be very few people who don't feel that they are entitled in some way to tell others how to live their lives.

150 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:48:28am

re: #145 Gus 802

Korean War ---> UN

Unconstitutional?

No war has been actually declared since WW2.

151 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:48:37am

In fact I want this to stand on its own.

America is much more than a land. It is not in the province of earth , but in the province of the nobler parts of men. It is an ideal. These monsters are trying to kill the ideal.

To my mind, it is that ideal which makes America what it is and the beacon of hope that led my ancestors here. It is that Ideal that my family fought for and struggled for in both war and peace.

Those ideals form us as a nation and polity worth preserving. They allowed us to put a man on the moon and break the yoke of slavery. America in this view is so much more important that land or even lives - as all those who fought in places like Normandy, and Gettysburg and Yorktown believed.

These people are enemies of America.

152 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:49:19am

re: #147 RogueOne

According to the article main is a sanctuary state. Sharp could just move in and stay, everyone else does.

Look... you have to be careful in Maine... you don't want to tussle with people like this...

Image: chute_1020.jpg

They'll whoop your ass.

[Link: www.time.com...]

153 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:49:50am

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Wot?!? How else are we supposed to fight off the Invid invasion?

154 avanti  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:50:15am

re: #120 Obdicut

Californians find that definition amusing.

Speaking of California, they were mentioned on Fox today in relation to Germany and others bailing out France. The Fox guy actually said Texas might have to bail out California.
He has no idea of the sizes of the two economies or there share of the federal tax money each pays into the shared pool. Hell, if the richest states did not have to share with the poorer ones, they'd be in much better shape.

155 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:50:23am

re: #149 cliffster

The problem is people wanting to tell other people what to do. What to worship and what not to worship, who to fuck and who not to fuck. What to eat and what not to eat. How you should spend your money. Whether you should wear a seat belt. There seems to be very few people who don't feel that they are entitled in some way to tell others how to live their lives.

But if you bring up seat belts then you're bringing up driving which is considered a privilege and not a right.

156 [deleted]  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:50:37am
157 Lidane  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:51:00am

re: #104 Guanxi88

This ain't no Mud Club, or CBGB
I ain't got time for that now.

Heard about Houston? Heard about Detroit?
Heard about Pittsburgh, PA?
You oughta know not to stand by the window
Somebody might see you up there...

158 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:51:21am

Ugh.

159 [deleted]  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:51:26am
160 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:51:50am

re: #156 LudwigVanQuixote

Please don't give the stalker's any more ammunition LVQ. Pun intended.

161 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:52:00am

re: #154 avanti

We need to change out structure to make it harder to spend and easier to tax. Prop 13 needs to die, especially-- at the very fucking least the corporate part of it.

Right now, we can cut programs from the budget and then immediately hire external contractors, for even more money, to do what the state employees used to do, for more money. And somehow this is applauded as a budget cut.

162 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:52:03am

Economics is a science. A social science, perhaps, but a science nonetheless. It is the study of how large groups of people make decisions about goods and services. There are competing schools of thought and competing theories in economics just as there are in other disciplines of social and physical sciences.

Personally, I feel the socon commitment to science in general is weak, and this includes the science of economics. I think the right wing's promotion of capitalism today is merely a strategy to keep fiscal conservatives in the GOP fold. The GOP has pretty much the domain of the social conservative now, and IMO the socon commitment to free-market economics is not what I would call solid. Social conservatives seem amenable to the use of governmental authority in the economy if doing so meets with their religious goals.

163 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:52:03am

If 156 gets deleted, I don't care. If these people take power and destroy our constitution, we will no longer be living in America. I will fight for America.

164 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:52:35am

re: #156 LudwigVanQuixote

You're as quick as those you criticize to use violent rhetoric.

165 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:52:42am

re: #155 Gus 802

But if you bring up seat belts then you're bringing up driving which is considered a privilege and not a right.

I'm not into people telling other people what to do. It also happens to be that the people who want to tell other people what to do always rationalize it in their head somehow. But the point is, the less trying to control other people, the better.

166 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:53:13am

re: #163 LudwigVanQuixote

If 156 gets deleted, I don't care. If these people take power and destroy our constitution, we will no longer be living in America. I will fight for America.

Your not caring reflects badly upon your host AND yourself.

167 kirkspencer  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:53:20am

re: #103 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh honey, I have been pointing out the nazi/tea-bag link for weeks now.

We are starting to see this shit catalyze. The next step will be a kristalnacht for "illegal immigrants."

I think the kristallnacht is a step or two away, yet. I think a necessary intervening step is the establishment of an equivalent to the Nuremberg laws. The Arizona law and its equivalents in other states are close, but they have to get past a few hurdles before they're established.

168 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:54:02am

I don't even know what to say anymore. The crazy is everywhere I look.

I'm past anger. It's more like a sort of acceptance that maybe humanity really just doesn't want to be enlightened or free, really. They just want somebody to blame when the shit goes down. Now it's "libruls", tomorrow, who knows what it will be.

I'm an atheist liberal. In the US, I may as well be satan.

Fuck this place.

169 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:54:05am

re: #160 McSpiff

Please don't give the stalker's any more ammunition LVQ. Pun intended.

Why? They are there masturbating to the idea of an open fight, but they are not a real threat. The threat is in terms of a political movement that sweeps into power and destroys everything we hold dear. Remember that Hitler got elected.

I do not think that America will fall to these fools, but if does begin to teeter, there are Americans who will give their lives to defend her.

170 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:54:15am

re: #156 LudwigVanQuixote

Ludwig:

If it ever came to actual armed insurrection against the government, of course we'd fight them.

However, when you don't include any actual context, when you just said "if it comes to it", that is not going to be the first interpretation anyone takes away from this.

This issue is too important to detract from like that. Moreover, that exact same sentence could be said by a member of the Tea Party.

171 avanti  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:54:37am

re: #163 LudwigVanQuixote

If 156 gets deleted, I don't care. If these people take power and destroy our constitution, we will no longer be living in America. I will fight for America.

Ludwig, we can't bitch about the wing nuts on the right calling for violence, if we do the same.

172 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:54:50am

Damn!

173 MandyManners  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:54:59am

re: #114 Cannadian Club Akbar

We speak American!!
///

We speak English.

174 RogueOne  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:55:17am

The rhetoric has never been this bad, I'm scared for the republic.....

175 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:55:20am

re: #165 cliffster

I'm not into people telling other people what to do. It also happens to be that the people who want to tell other people what to do always rationalize it in their head somehow. But the point is, the less trying to control other people, the better.

The seat belt law has been abused in many states. I think it's either in Maryland or Virginia where they've set up road blocks of sorts where they check each driver for seat belt use and submit fines.

176 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:55:29am

re: #168 Fozzie Bear

I don't even know what to say anymore. The crazy is everywhere I look.

I'm past anger. It's more like a sort of acceptance that maybe humanity really just doesn't want to be enlightened or free, really. They just want somebody to blame when the shit goes down. Now it's "libruls", tomorrow, who knows what it will be.

I'm an atheist liberal. In the US, I may as well be satan.

Fuck this place.

Door's open - emigration is always available.

177 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:55:45am

Freedom of religion but not freedom from religion. What does that even mean. One of the wonderful things about this country is that we have the freedom to practice or not to practice whatever religion we want to. Some people think not being able to force people to pray or legalizing gay marriage is an attack on their religion. Those people are idiots I have to say.

178 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:55:48am

re: #166 wrenchwench

Your not caring reflects badly upon your host AND yourself.

YOur unwillingness to realize that the founding fathers were correct about the need to be vigilant to preserve freedom, and that it does not come for free, reflects badly on you. Notice my phrases. I am not hoping that violence happens. I am saying that if it comes to it, because these animals started it, I will fight - and so will anyone who has a real belief in America.

179 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:55:56am

re: #156 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm all for defending my country against anyone who would try to destroy it. As one marine said of the tea party and their calls for 'revolution' in recent months, "Once you take up arms against my country, I no longer see you as fellow country-men, but as a foe." It is something for the wannabe revolutionaries to think about while they're spewing their anger at having a black president and 'wanting to take their country back.'

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:55:59am

re: #118 RogueOne

I consider that the same thing. Anything not taken by the feds is "local" in my book.

Fair enough.

181 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:56:19am

re: #169 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm not saying I disagree you. And I'd be happy to blue my nic to discuss with you my real thoughts on the matter. But we're dealing with people who use any slip of the tongue or metaphor to justify their next political land grab. If they can point to even vague threats of left wing violence, you will see Tea Party training camps, mark my words. Do not play their games.

182 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:56:22am

re: #169 LudwigVanQuixote

Come on, man. You know there's a policy about that kind of talk. Cut it out.

183 badger1970  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:56:27am

re: #173 MandyManners

Joe Don Baker?

184 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:57:11am

re: #174 RogueOne

The rhetoric has never been this bad, I'm scared for the republic...

It's just that...rhetoric. Little kids bragging about their penis size on the playground, but none willing to prove it.

185 lawhawk  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:57:39am

re: #154 avanti

Here's a map showing relative economies as translated to various states.

# California, it is often said, would be the world’s sixth- or seventh-largest economy if it was a separate country. Actually, that would be the eighth, according to this map, as France (with a GDP of $2,15 trillion) is #8 on the aforementioned list.
# Texas’ economy is significantly smaller, exactly half of California’s, as its GDP compares to that of Canada (#10, $1,08 trillion).
# Florida also does well, with its GDP comparable to Asian tiger South Korea’s (#13 at $786 billion).
# Illinois – Mexico (GDP #14 at $741 billion)
# New Jersey – Russia (GDP #15 at $733 billion)
# Ohio – Australia (GDP #16 at $645 billion)
# New York – Brazil (GDP #17 at $621 billion)
# Pennsylvania – Netherlands (GDP #18 at $613 billion)
# Georgia – Switzerland (GDP #19 at $387 billion)
# North Carolina – Sweden (GDP #20 at $371 billion)

The amount of taxes paid and federal share are besides the point - CA is twice the size of Texas' economy, and therefore would require that much more assistance than Texas alone could provide in bailing out (and that further assumes that Texas is actually solvent and in a position to do any kind of bailing).

186 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:57:42am

re: #182 Charles

Come on, man. You know there's a policy about that kind of talk. Cut it out.

Charles, delete my 159, I quoted it.

187 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:57:46am

re: #170 Obdicut

re: #171 avanti

What I said was said carefully and deliberately.

IF they start violence and an actual insurrection comes, we must fight it.

If they reshape America into the form that they are proposing, America ceases to be America and we must fight it.

Grow some spine. Americans fight to preserve liberty. We do not coddle evil.

188 webevintage  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:57:58am

Austrian Economics

WTF? Is Austrian Economics?

Yes I will use the google...

189 badger1970  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:58:21am

re: #184 darthstar

Like these Scots?

190 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:58:31am

re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote

YOur unwillingness to realize that the founding fathers were correct about the need to be vigilant to preserve freedom, and that it does not come for free, reflects badly on you. Notice my phrases. I am not hoping that violence happens. I am saying that if it comes to it, because these animals started it, I will fight - and so will anyone who has a real belief in America.

Now you make statements for which you have no basis. Time to either cool down a bit, or take your heat somewhere that it might do some good.

191 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:58:32am

re: #184 darthstar

It's just that...rhetoric. Little kids bragging about their penis size on the playground, but none willing to prove it.

This is my profound hope. I hope 99% of it is just people blowing off steam.

The problem is that this steam (words, votes, policies, laws) has a real impact on people. And you can't combat the willfully stupid with information.

192 RadicalModerate  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:58:45am

re: #153 Slumbering Behemoth

Wot?!? How else are we supposed to fight off the Invid invasion?

Recapture of Reflex Point?

193 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:58:45am

re: #183 badger1970

Joe Don Baker?

MITCHELL!

194 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:58:58am

re: #175 Gus 802

The seat belt law has been abused in many states. I think it's either in Maryland or Virginia where they've set up road blocks of sorts where they check each driver for seat belt use and submit fines.

That's just ridiculous. I can't stand the road block thing, for any reason. Why not just have random searches of people's homes, then?

195 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:58:58am

re: #182 Charles

Come on, man. You know there's a policy about that kind of talk. Cut it out.

Very well.

I seem to have been misread. I am not calling to start anything Charles. I am calling to defend by all means nescessary if needed.

196 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:59:25am

re: #188 webevintage

Austrian Economics

WTF? Is Austrian Economics?

Yes I will use the google...

It's an economic theory which is popular among quacks like Ron Paul. Gold based currency, etc.

197 Lidane  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:59:40am

re: #168 Fozzie Bear

I don't even know what to say anymore. The crazy is everywhere I look.

Tell me about it. I'm at the point where I just can't muster up any outrage anymore, despite having my mind repeatedly blown by the stunning ignorance and short-sightedness on display with platforms like this. I see my friends on Facebook -- all people I've known for years, mind -- falling for this shit, and it's both scary and sad.

198 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 11:59:57am

re: #192 RadicalModerate

Recapture of Reflex Point?

The Invid are not the real threat.

199 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:00:10pm

re: #179 darthstar

I'm all for defending my country against anyone who would try to destroy it. As one marine said of the tea party and their calls for 'revolution' in recent months, "Once you take up arms against my country, I no longer see you as fellow country-men, but as a foe." It is something for the wannabe revolutionaries to think about while they're spewing their anger at having a black president and 'wanting to take their country back.'

Exactly my point.

200 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:00:12pm

re: #190 wrenchwench

Now you make statements for which you have no basis. Time to either cool down a bit, or take your heat somewhere that it might do some good.

Some days I fear that the spirit of Irish Rose has taken possession of LVQ.

Ludwig, you're better than that. But hanging around the Village of the Banned to see what they're saying about you, the fumes can get to a person. Give yourself a break.

201 jvic  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:00:42pm

I read the platform.

The strident utopianism of the rhetoric is incompatible with the conservative mindset as I understand it.

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:00:43pm

re: #121 b_sharp

This thread is all hornet's nesty, I'm not sure a foreigner like me should be pokin' anything.

Gotta ask though - if I travel through Maine am I going to have to feign religion?

Please remember that Maine is not a particularly conservative state. Baldacci is a Democrat, and both of the Senators are centrist types. I don't know what went wrong here, but I don't think it reflects the general tenor of the state.

203 MandyManners  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:00:48pm

re: #168 Fozzie Bear

I don't even know what to say anymore. The crazy is everywhere I look.

I'm past anger. It's more like a sort of acceptance that maybe humanity really just doesn't want to be enlightened or free, really. They just want somebody to blame when the shit goes down. Now it's "libruls", tomorrow, who knows what it will be.

I'm an atheist liberal. In the US, I may as well be satan.

Fuck this place.

WTF?

204 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:00:51pm

re: #117 LudwigVanQuixote

LVQ,

I really like reading your posts, particularly those on the environment, so I'm asking you to step back and take a deep breath and relax. Do not succumb to the same hysterics that drives the fringes. I don't like what the GOP is becoming any more than you do, but we're not "there" yet.

205 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:00:56pm

re: #199 LudwigVanQuixote

Exactly my point.


Yep...just ixnay on the 'ill-them-kay'..

206 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:01:20pm

re: #184 darthstar

Oh, I'll prove it all right! Hand me that micrometer.
/

207 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:01:23pm

re: #167 kirkspencer

I think the kristallnacht is a step or two away, yet. I think a necessary intervening step is the establishment of an equivalent to the Nuremberg laws. The Arizona law and its equivalents in other states are close, but they have to get past a few hurdles before they're established.

Well said.

208 MandyManners  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:01:50pm

re: #183 badger1970

Joe Don Baker?

Nope. Some GOP hopeful. Hopeful but, distant.

209 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:02:35pm

re: #169 LudwigVanQuixote

I will fight for the Constitution and the rule of law, as I have done for 40 years, but I don't think it will come to that. Violence from the crazies is not likely to come in the form of an organized insurrection or jackboot oppression by a government they control, but from an increasing mass of Tim McVeigh style "lone wolves." They will unified by a set of media memes and common ideas, rather than by an actual network.
Our fight will be in the media and the political arena, with whatever direct measures are necessary to protect ourselves if we happen to individually become targets.

210 Lidane  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:02:36pm

re: #188 webevintage

Austrian Economics

WTF? Is Austrian Economics?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

211 avanti  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:02:48pm

re: #187 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #171 avanti

What I said was said carefully and deliberately.

IF they start violence and an actual insurrection comes, we must fight it.

If they reshape America into the form that they are proposing, America ceases to be America and we must fight it.

Grow some spine. Americans fight to preserve liberty. We do not coddle evil.

You left out a lot of the "If's", without them, I have a issue.

212 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:02:49pm

re: #208 MandyManners

Nope. Some GOP hopeful. Hopeful but, distant.

Hope is the light at the end of the tunnel.

Sometimes, its an express train coming at ya.

213 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:03:16pm

re: #179 darthstar

I'm all for defending my country against anyone who would try to destroy it. As one marine said of the tea party and their calls for 'revolution' in recent months, "Once you take up arms against my country, I no longer see you as fellow country-men, but as a foe." It is something for the wannabe revolutionaries to think about while they're spewing their anger at having a black president and 'wanting to take their country back.'

I was trying to explain the part about becoming a foe to My Moonbat Brother (MMB™) yesterday when he got all whiny about the death order on Awlaki. He still doesn't get it.

214 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:03:48pm

re: #210 Lidane

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

GOOOLLLDDD~

215 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:04:29pm

re: #141 b_sharp

Whew, guess I dodged at least one bullet. It doesn't look good for my wife though, I doubt she could pull of being white as well as I can being religious.

I was kind of hoping the dimwit tomfoolery was going to be restricted to the far south states. It starting to look like a vacation in the States is a no go.

The real split is more Rural/Urban than geographic. It just shows more in the South and West. Stay where the streets are well-lit.

216 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:04:38pm

re: #188 webevintage

Austrian Economics

WTF? Is Austrian Economics?

Yes I will use the google...

Please report back if you figure that one out.

217 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:04:48pm

Well it's done.

I had a 74.56% going into that test.

Final exam counts for 20% of the grade so that means I had a 59.648 as my total score for the class.

That means I needed to score around at least a 52 on the final (52 *.20% =10.4 GPA points = 59.648+ 10.4= 70.048) to pass the class.

If I did that I get to graduate and find out what this "real world" you guys talk so much about.

If I didn't then I'm gonna have A LOT of explaining to do to my folks....

Now I just have to wait a few hours for my professor to grade it and then I'll know one way or the other....

218 MandyManners  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:05:01pm

re: #212 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hope is the light at the end of the tunnel.

Sometimes, its an express train coming at ya.

Chugga-chugga!

219 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:05:06pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

Please remember that Maine is not a particularly conservative state. Baldacci is a Democrat, and both of the Senators are centrist types. I don't know what went wrong here, but I don't think it reflects the general tenor of the state.

Good point. The Republican Party in my county is tiny compared to the Democrats. Makes for an easier target. This was possibly an ailing party unit, and perhaps stronger ones can fight off the infestation.

220 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:05:15pm

Well, health care is not a "right" any more than food, clothing, or shelter are rights. The word "right" has to do with what the government may not take from you, not what the government must give to you.

Health care, by law, is now an entitlement. That means that everybody gets it out of somebody else's taxes until such time as the machinery of taxing and spending fails. As in Greece, now. As in the pipeline to fail, in the rest of the welfare-state world.

Libert'e, egalite, fraternite. Fine. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, check. To be secure in your habitation against unreasonable searches and seizures. To not have troops quartered on you. To speak...These are rights.

Nobody has to be taxed so that you can enjoy these rights. But rights to somebody else's labor are not rights. They are more nearly encroachments upon his rights, dressed up in the language of rights. At best, they are analogous to conscription, an instance of compelling people to contribute to the common good because that common good must be secured and the free-rider problem makes it impossible to secure by voluntary means. By that analogy, the law can be argued to be constitutional. It's a permissible exercise of government authority, if that interpretation holds up. It probably will, so we who objected must submit.

But please, don't tell me that your rights include the right to make some third party pay for your health care. You've won the political fight. You can compel it. You will compel it. The losers, the young and healthy, will take the hit and then manage somehow to make ends meet with what's left them after paying this new tax. Gloating is less unseemly than dressing up this political victory as some step in the saga that included Exodus and the Emancipation Proclamation.

221 MandyManners  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:05:38pm

re: #217 jamesfirecat

Good luck!

222 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:06:08pm

re: #217 jamesfirecat

Well it's done.

I had a 74.56% going into that test.

Final exam counts for 20% of the grade so that means I had a 59.648 as my total score for the class.

That means I needed to score around at least a 52 on the final (52 *.20% =10.4 GPA points = 59.648+ 10.4= 70.048) to pass the class.

If I did that I get to graduate and find out what this "real world" you guys talk so much about.

If I didn't then I'm gonna have A LOT of explaining to do to my folks...

Now I just have to wait a few hours for my professor to grade it and then I'll know one way or the other...

You'll do fine... there's a lot of people in the real world who do just well enough to skate by...

223 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:06:19pm

re: #217 jamesfirecat

Luck be upon you.

224 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:06:23pm

re: #217 jamesfirecat

Good luck. I feel for you.

225 Achilles Tang  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:06:30pm

Just checking in briefly here, but the OP makes me want to mention that I was driving all day yesterday, up to the Appalachians, and happened to catch Rush Limbaugh on the radio. I had to turn him off after 10 minutes or so of his monologue, because every 5 minutes he begins to just repeat what he already said; but I must say that it was unnerving to listen.

Even Glenn Beck doesn't drip with venom like Rush does and at least Glenn Beck tries, poorly, to justify his conspiracy theories; Rush just makes stuff up on the fly. Whatever he has really borders on a mental disease and it is worrying that so many people can't see that.

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:06:47pm

re: #217 jamesfirecat

Well it's done.

I had a 74.56% going into that test.

Final exam counts for 20% of the grade so that means I had a 59.648 as my total score for the class.

That means I needed to score around at least a 52 on the final (52 *.20% =10.4 GPA points = 59.648+ 10.4= 70.048) to pass the class.

If I did that I get to graduate and find out what this "real world" you guys talk so much about.

If I didn't then I'm gonna have A LOT of explaining to do to my folks...

Now I just have to wait a few hours for my professor to grade it and then I'll know one way or the other...

The real world is not all that real sometimes...you may be better of where you are.

But you'll run out of money.

227 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:06:48pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

Please remember that Maine is not a particularly conservative state. Baldacci is a Democrat, and both of the Senators are centrist types. I don't know what went wrong here, but I don't think it reflects the general tenor of the state.

Does that mean Snowe and Collins might get ousted in their eventual primaries and replaced crazy GOP wing nuts who will lose to Democrats?

228 MandyManners  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:06:52pm

re: #217 jamesfirecat

Go have beer. If you're old enough.

229 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:06:56pm

re: #121 b_sharp

This thread is all hornet's nesty, I'm not sure a foreigner like me should be pokin' anything.

Gotta ask though - if I travel through Maine am I going to have to feign religion?

No. Of course not. This isn't Poland, where a woman faces jail for having remarked that she found it hard to believe a book written by men who drank too much wine.

230 MandyManners  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:07:02pm

re: #228 MandyManners

Go have beer. If you're old enough.

*whack*

231 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:07:29pm

re: #188 webevintage

Austrian Economics

WTF? Is Austrian Economics?

Yes I will use the google...

It was originally a particular school of economic thought but it has been transformed into a kind of political cult, popular with Paulians, the JBS, and (most strikingly) with neo-Confederates.

232 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:07:32pm

re: #217 jamesfirecat

Nearly twenty years ago...

I sat down to take a history final. The prof walks in, puts our tests out, and then puts up a poster he had made of people skiing, sitting on the beach, etc.

He says, "Things you'd rather be doing," grinned at us, and left.

Grumble.

233 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:07:36pm

re: #220 lostlakehiker

But yet you have the right to compel me to pay for your defense through my taxes. Interesting.

234 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:07:45pm

re: #230 MandyManners

*whack*

Quit whacking yourself!
/ducks

235 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:08:03pm

re: #179 darthstar

I'm all for defending my country against anyone who would try to destroy it. As one marine said of the tea party and their calls for 'revolution' in recent months, "Once you take up arms against my country, I no longer see you as fellow country-men, but as a foe." It is something for the wannabe revolutionaries to think about while they're spewing their anger at having a black president and 'wanting to take their country back.'

There comes a point where you have to ask the TPers;

"You realize you've just threatened to kill me because I disagree with you, right? Do you really want to go there?"

236 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:08:30pm

re: #187 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #171 avanti

What I said was said carefully and deliberately.

IF they start violence and an actual insurrection comes, we must fight it.

If they reshape America into the form that they are proposing, America ceases to be America and we must fight it.

Grow some spine. Americans fight to preserve liberty. We do not coddle evil.

I'm sorry, are you saying 'grow some spine' to me?

Why, if what you said was careful and deliberate, did it not say what you've now said?

As I said: what you said could easily have been said by any Tea Party member.

America was America back when we had slavery. America was America when we had McCarthyism. America was America when we sent soldiers to fight for the profits of the Dole company. I do not think that violent insurrection would have solved any of those problems.

237 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:08:41pm

re: #146 Walter L. Newton

Don't matter really, I don't think that Maine would let you over the border.

I'm not that ugly!

238 Randy W. Weeks  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:08:52pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

In a fight between Teddy Roosevelt and Glenn Beck...I don't think there can be any doubt as to the outcome.

Crying. Lots and lots of crying.

These people are scariest kind of ignorant: they think believe that they know it all.

One can forgive a person for being ignorant as long as they are aware of the fact and willing to change that fact. These people are neither.

239 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:08:55pm

re: #167 kirkspencer

I think the kristallnacht is a step or two away, yet. I think a necessary intervening step is the establishment of an equivalent to the Nuremberg laws. The Arizona law and its equivalents in other states are close, but they have to get past a few hurdles before they're established.

You know, I don't support the Arizona law. I think that law is the wrong answer to a real problem. I also think some of the provisions of the law will lead to racial profiling and harassment of legal residents and citizens. And I do think there are some racists cheering it on.

That having been said, can we please have some sense of perspective? We're a long way from the Nuremberg Laws. Good grief.

240 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:09:07pm

Meanwhile, I see Sigma spent the morning defending the morality of day-trading. (One wonders: shouldn't he have been day-trading?)

Here's a quote from Michael Milken (remember him? the living embodiment of "greed is good"?) prominently posted on Sigma's sad little visitorless website that explains it all very succinctly:

"The secret to successful trading is to find people stupider than you to take advantage of."

That is the sum and essence of Sigma's philosophy.

I rest my case.

And until Sigma personally apologizes to Bagua for naming him as the eeevul Lizard who "deleted" all of Siggy's followers on Twitter, I suggest we scroll him to death, the pseudo-leftist attention whore.

241 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:09:11pm

re: #187 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #171 avanti

What I said was said carefully and deliberately.

IF they start violence and an actual insurrection comes, we must fight it.

If they reshape America into the form that they are proposing, America ceases to be America and we must fight it.

Grow some spine. Americans fight to preserve liberty. We do not coddle evil.

Could have been spoken by an Oathkeeper.

242 RadicalModerate  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:09:51pm

re: #198 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Invid are not the real threat.

Well, you gotta remember, the Invid actually were looking to evolve - a concept completely alien to the TP/SoCon crowd.

/this has to be really obscure, even for the LGF crowd, btw.

243 Achilles Tang  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:10:08pm

re: #217 jamesfirecat

Good luck from me too, but I must say I see you here often when you could be in the library doing you know what.

244 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:10:21pm

re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist

Please report back if you figure that one out.

No one figures out Austrian Economics. They just adopt it as a banner and wave it in people's faces.

245 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:10:22pm

re: #239 Liberal Classic

Is revoking citizenship based on the mere suspicion of committing a crime close enough or?

246 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:10:40pm

re: #217 jamesfirecat

Well it's done.

I had a 74.56% going into that test.

Final exam counts for 20% of the grade so that means I had a 59.648 as my total score for the class.

That means I needed to score around at least a 52 on the final (52 *.20% =10.4 GPA points = 59.648+ 10.4= 70.048) to pass the class.

If I did that I get to graduate and find out what this "real world" you guys talk so much about.

If I didn't then I'm gonna have A LOT of explaining to do to my folks...

Now I just have to wait a few hours for my professor to grade it and then I'll know one way or the other...

what class, if you don't mind my asking?

247 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:10:44pm

re: #164 wrenchwench

You're as quick as those you criticize to use violent rhetoric.

That is a false equivalence. I am not calling for violence and I hope it never happens. I am saying that America is worth preserving and that these fools really are enemies of America. I am saying that these fools are calling for violence themselves and will soon be perpetrating that violence on unprotected groups and easy targets. Then the process mushrooms if they are allowed to gain power.

I am saying that there is a history here that can not be ignored and a pattern that anyone who has studied the rise of violent populist movements can point out all too easily.

When I say if it comes to it, I do not know where that line is. B ut let us imagine that the Teabaggers get elected. When will it "come to it?"

Is it when they haul off suspected terrorists, who are stripped of their citizenship?

Is it when they haul off brown people or gays?

Is it when they arrest folks for teaching science that they don't like?

Is it when they restrict your freedoms with call of if you have nothing to hde then why protest this camera or wire tap?

Is it when they start finding enemies of the State under every corner and purge their political opponents?

Is it when you start living in fear of being an enemy of the state because you have the wrong beliefs or politics, but no longer any protectin under the law?

At some point we find that we have lost our nation if we allow these monsters to take over.

I am not saying we are at that point now. I am not saying that violence is called for now. I am saying that if it does come to it (and I don't know where that line is) real Americans will fight for this nation.

248 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:11:34pm

OT, but more wingnut bullshit over Kagan:

Far-Right Group AFA Demands To Know Kagan’s Sexuality, Since ‘No Lesbian Is Qualified’ To Sit On SCOTUS

In a blog post for the far-right American Family Association (AFA) today, Bryan Fischer comes right out and says that the media should pointedly ask Kagan, “Are you a lesbian?” And if she is, according to AFA, she shouldn’t serve on the court:

It’s time we got over the myth that what a public servant does in his private life is of no consequence. We cannot afford to have another sexually abnormal individual in a position of important civic responsibility, especially when that individual could become one of nine votes in an out of control oligarchy that constantly usurps constitutional prerogatives to unethically and illegally legislate for 300 million Americans.

The stakes are too high. Social conservatives must rise up as one and say no lesbian is qualified to sit on the Supreme Court. Will they?

Americans For Truth — a group “devoted exclusively to exposing and countering the homosexual activist agenda” — also put out a statement saying that Kagan needs to answer, “Are (or were) you a practicing homosexual or do you consider yourself homosexual (gay)?” Last month, Focus on the Family also said that it would not be open to a gay Supreme Court justice.

The religious right wingnuts are all mobilised: emails going out to their mailing lists.
I said early on that this year we were going to see homophobia explode on the right in much the same way that racism crawled out from under every rock last year. This is going to add to it.

249 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:12:04pm

re: #204 Liberal Classic

LVQ,

I really like reading your posts, particularly those on the environment, so I'm asking you to step back and take a deep breath and relax. Do not succumb to the same hysterics that drives the fringes. I don't like what the GOP is becoming any more than you do, but we're not "there" yet.

I don't think we are there yet. I agree. I just want people to see what lies down that road and get real about it.

250 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:12:05pm

re: #220 lostlakehiker

Well, health care is not a "right" any more than food, clothing, or shelter are rights. The word "right" has to do with what the government may not take from you, not what the government must give to you.

Health care, by law, is now an entitlement. That means that everybody gets it out of somebody else's taxes until such time as the machinery of taxing and spending fails. As in Greece, now. As in the pipeline to fail, in the rest of the welfare-state world.

Libert'e, egalite, fraternite. Fine. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, check. To be secure in your habitation against unreasonable searches and seizures. To not have troops quartered on you. To speak...These are rights.

Nobody has to be taxed so that you can enjoy these rights. But rights to somebody else's labor are not rights. They are more nearly encroachments upon his rights, dressed up in the language of rights. At best, they are analogous to conscription, an instance of compelling people to contribute to the common good because that common good must be secured and the free-rider problem makes it impossible to secure by voluntary means. By that analogy, the law can be argued to be constitutional. It's a permissible exercise of government authority, if that interpretation holds up. It probably will, so we who objected must submit.

But please, don't tell me that your rights include the right to make some third party pay for your health care. You've won the political fight. You can compel it. You will compel it. The losers, the young and healthy, will take the hit and then manage somehow to make ends meet with what's left them after paying this new tax. Gloating is less unseemly than dressing up this political victory as some step in the saga that included Exodus and the Emancipation Proclamation.

And the IRS is unconstitutional, too!

Good luck with that.

251 webevintage  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:12:06pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

It's an economic theory which is popular among quacks like Ron Paul. Gold based currency, etc.

So buy GOLD and Survivor Seeds?
Thanks

252 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:12:06pm

re: #246 Aceofwhat?

what class, if you don't mind my asking?

Computer Science 445 Design/Analysis of Algorithms.

253 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:12:17pm

re: #232 EmmmieG

Nearly twenty years ago...

I sat down to take a history final. The prof walks in, puts our tests out, and then puts up a poster he had made of people skiing, sitting on the beach, etc.

He says, "Things you'd rather be doing," grinned at us, and left.

Grumble.

Well, that's what I call a prick move. I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about my finals this week since two of them are in history.

254 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:12:31pm

re: #173 MandyManners

We speak English.


[Video]

Heh, here's another genius political ad from Alabama.

255 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:12:31pm

re: #242 RadicalModerate

Well, you gotta remember, the Invid actually were looking to evolve - a concept completely alien to the TP/SoCon crowd.

/this has to be really obscure, even for the LGF crowd, btw.

Well, then you had the whole Regent/Regess Schism, and then the Invid who chose to stay behind.

256 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:12:53pm

re: #247 LudwigVanQuixote

If they get elected, that's when we've failed. Ballot box > ammo box. Just ask Garry Adams.

257 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:13:06pm

re: #236 Obdicut

agree completely

258 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:14:00pm

re: #168 Fozzie Bear

I don't even know what to say anymore. The crazy is everywhere I look.

I'm past anger. It's more like a sort of acceptance that maybe humanity really just doesn't want to be enlightened or free, really. They just want somebody to blame when the shit goes down. Now it's "libruls", tomorrow, who knows what it will be.

I'm an atheist liberal. In the US, I may as well be satan.

Fuck this place.

It's getting that way in western Canuckville too.

259 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:14:17pm

re: #227 jamesfirecat

Does that mean Snowe and Collins might get ousted in their eventual primaries and replaced crazy GOP wing nuts who will lose to Democrats?

Really, I don't know. I don't know how representative this production is of Maine Republicans. Remember, the Bennett ouster in Utah wasn't something the voters did. Mainers may just dig in their heels. I don't know how popular Collins and Snowe are with their actual voters right now, as a opposed to with the Tea Zealots.

260 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:14:38pm

re: #256 McSpiff

Indeed. Let's fight them in the primaries, in the elections, in the courts, so we don't have to fight them in the streets.

261 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:15:17pm

re: #231 Shiplord Kirel

It was originally a particular school of economic thought but it has been transformed into a kind of political cult, popular with Paulians, the JBS, and (most strikingly) with neo-Confederates.

IMO Birchers and neo-Rebs don't really understand what they're advocating. I think they're just latching on to heterodoxy for the sake of it.

262 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:15:21pm

re: #254 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh, here's another genius political ad from Alabama.

A politician who thinks only parts of the Bible are true? STONE HIM!

///

263 Lidane  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:15:58pm

re: #242 RadicalModerate

/this has to be really obscure, even for the LGF crowd, btw.

Only if they've never seen Robotech. As it happens, I have. ;)

FSM save me from Linn Minmei and her insufferable self. I hated that character with the fire of a thousand suns.

264 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:16:08pm

re: #262 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A politician who thinks only parts of the Bible are true? STONE HIM!

///

///Now just wait a minute.... are there any women here today?

265 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:16:27pm

EH, in spite of the differences in politics I might have with LVQ, and even though I think he's a bit over the top on this one, I'll say this - I'd just as soon have him on my side as not.

266 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:17:01pm

re: #168 Fozzie Bear

I don't even know what to say anymore. The crazy is everywhere I look.

I'm past anger. It's more like a sort of acceptance that maybe humanity really just doesn't want to be enlightened or free, really. They just want somebody to blame when the shit goes down. Now it's "libruls", tomorrow, who knows what it will be.

I'm an atheist liberal. In the US, I may as well be satan.

Fuck this place.

I've sometimes thought the same way. But go where? In our history we've had a great deal of rhetoric such as we find in the platform. It would never find widespread appeal in this nation and largely represents the atavistic sentiment of an isolated state (Maine) with little or no influence on the American psyche.

In Poland there are two pop stars facing two years in prison under there national blasphemy laws. In other nations such as Germany, France and England you will never find the kind of freedom of speech we enjoy. France has a rather strict "French only" law which applies to their media and other venues:

France - French Language Law

The Decree implementing Law No. 94-665 on the use of the French language was published on March 5, 1995, and entered into full effect as of August 5, 1995. The law mandates the use of the French language in connection with designations, offers, presentations, instructions, descriptions or guarantees of products or services; invoices and receipts; and international conferences.

267 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:17:39pm

re: #195 LudwigVanQuixote

Very well.

I seem to have been misread. I am not calling to start anything Charles. I am calling to defend by all means nescessary if needed.

It's no so much about what you said, or even what you meant, it's about how it can be misconstrued.

268 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:17:44pm

re: #264 jamesfirecat

///Now just wait a minute... are there any women here today?

You're just making it worse for yourself.

269 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:17:46pm

re: #262 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A politician who thinks only parts of the Bible are true? STONE HIM!

///

He's one of the sane Repub candidates.

270 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:18:07pm

re: #214 Varek Raith

GOOOLLLDDD~

Is that how they plan to advertise it during the World Cup?

271 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:18:32pm

re: #247 LudwigVanQuixote

That is a false equivalence. I am not calling for violence and I hope it never happens.

I'm not trying to say you are equivalent to them. I criticized that one post where you actually did call for violence, and any further comments that defend that post.

I am not saying we are at that point now. I am not saying that violence is called for now. I am saying that if it does come to it (and I don't know where that line is) real Americans will fight for this nation.

This real American went to a bunch of Republican Party meetings last year to see whether there was anything there worth working with. I concluded there wasn't, and now work to diminish their (tiny, as it happens) power.

What have you done? No, don't answer that. I see you lead a good life from what you post here. You don't need to justify yourself to me. Nor I to you, so button up that rhetoric.

272 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:18:48pm

re: #266 Gus 802

Exactly - there's no place left to go. Any sane American, irrespective of politics, cannot enjoy the levels of liberty that are available here. An American lefty would be just as pissed off living abroad as would an American righty, since they're both American in outlook and temperament.

273 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:19:12pm

This all stems from the constant flood of paranoid wingnut propaganda. Rush, Beck, Malkin, etc.

No nation in the history of the world has so mastered the art of mass manipulation (i.e., 'marketing', 'public relations') like we have, and this is the result of that mastery. Even our euphemisms have euphemisms.

"Truth", and "fact" are just symbols now, to be assigned any value the speaker wishes. How can you possibly oppose ignorance in such an environment?

274 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:19:34pm

Article 166 of the German Criminal Code, states:

Section 166 Insulting of Faiths, Religious Societies and Organizations Dedicated to a Philosophy of Life

(1) Whoever publicly or through dissemination of writings (Section 11 subsection (3)) insults the content of others' religious faith or faith related to a philosophy of life in a manner that is capable of disturbing the public peace, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.

(2) Whoever publicly or through dissemination of writings (Section 11 subsection (3)) insults a church, other religious society, or organization dedicated to a philosophy of life located in Germany, or their institutions or customs in a manner that is capable of disturbing the public peace, shall be similarly punished.

275 elektramourns  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:19:43pm

re: #248 iceweasel

I wonder how Lindsey Graham will handle it...he is known in SC to be gay, and he is a Log Cabin Republican. He cannot truthfully attack her for that issue unless he is an asshole and does not mind being outed.

Lindsey's defense to being outed will be to be all the more conservative....

Interesting......

276 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:19:43pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

Really, I don't know. I don't know how representative this production is of Maine Republicans. Remember, the Bennett ouster in Utah wasn't something the voters did. Mainers may just dig in their heels. I don't know how popular Collins and Snowe are with their actual voters right now, as a opposed to with the Tea Zealots.

Over two years ago, I was predicting what I thought was going to happen, that this was going to get violent. I wasn't promoting it, it was just an observation of mine.

For the sake of not stirring the pot, or anyone taking my comments the wrong way, Charles asked me (and everyone) to stop referring to these possibilities in the flammable language that I was using.

And still adhering to Charles request, I won't go there. But I can say, this sort of rhetoric I see above, from the Maine GOP, is what I saw coming two years ago.

Wish I wasn't right.

277 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:19:47pm

re: #245 McSpiff

Is revoking citizenship based on the mere suspicion of committing a crime close enough or?


That one scares me half to death.

278 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:20:00pm

Reading the document now. Jefferson weeps for the state of writing in this country.

279 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:20:14pm

re: #236 Obdicut

I'm sorry, are you saying 'grow some spine' to me?

My apologies.

Why, if what you said was careful and deliberate, did it not say what you've now said?

Because I am frustrated at being misunderstood.

As I said: what you said could easily have been said by any Tea Party member.

Only I am playing defense while hoping it does not come to it, and they are playing offence hoping it does.

America was America back when we had slavery.

Which was crushed by the Civil war.

America was America when we had McCarthyism.

Which was defeated democratically when the government came back to its senses. McCArthy over reached and went for the Army. He went too far too fast in his attempted purge. HAd he been a smarter populist revolutionary, who knows?

America was America when we sent soldiers to fight for the profits of the Dole company.

America was certainly acting against the ideals of America when it did that. PArt of America is that folks lie us know about such things and are free to speak out.

I do not think that violent insurrection would have solved any of those problems.

I am not calling for violent insurrectionist. You misunderstand me.

280 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:20:23pm

re: #245 McSpiff

Is revoking citizenship based on the mere suspicion of committing a crime close enough or?

Are we talking about the Arizona law, or the quote by Joe Lieberman? I've read the Arizona law. It doesn't revoke citizenship. It authorizes police to ask for residency status, requires legal residents to carry proof of residency status, establishes legal residency as eligibility for public social services, makes a crime out of picking up day workers off the street, etc. It's not the Nuremberg Laws FFS.

281 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:20:23pm

re: #247 LudwigVanQuixote

I am not saying we are at that point now. I am not saying that violence is called for now. I am saying that if it does come to it (and I don't know where that line is) real Americans will fight for this nation.

Of course we would fight for our nation. Real americans inhale when they need oxygen, too. I'm going to file that statement under "D" for Duh.

Why don't we keep the obvious yet inflammatory stuff to a dull roar, unless we find ourselves on the precipice of such an unlikely thing? As Obdicut said, our union is not so fragile. Your parallels with 1920's Germany omit an incredible amount of pertinent contrasts with the present-day situation.

I am concerned about the viability of the untrue Scotsmen who rally behind such idiotic positions as "let's investigate the government over AGW hoaxes ZOMG Gold Austria dude", but the only thing they threaten is a GOP majority...because lots of people like me aren't voting for the Rubios of the world.

Your clarion call is both unnecessary and inflammatory.

282 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:20:24pm

re: #179 darthstar

I'm all for defending my country against anyone who would try to destroy it. As one marine said of the tea party and their calls for 'revolution' in recent months, "Once you take up arms against my country, I no longer see you as fellow country-men, but as a foe." It is something for the wannabe revolutionaries to think about while they're spewing their anger at having a black president and 'wanting to take their country back.'

Any group strong enough to profit from fighting a civil war to take over the country would be strong enough to win an election in a landslide. Close-fought elections foretell a close-fought war if it came to a fight, and that kind of war, nobody profits from. Not even the winners. That's one of the reasons elections are a pretty stable way of deciding who calls the shots.

Defecting from the game just doesn't pay.

There's also that marine. He and millions of others will fight to defend the game, regardless of who wins this round or that in it. Defecting from the game brings all of them into the other side's camp. We've been here before. From Wikipedia article about Fort Sumter:

In response, the Confederate cabinet, meeting in Montgomery, decided on April 9 to open fire on Fort Sumter in an attempt to force its surrender before the relief fleet arrived. Only Secretary of State Robert Toombs opposed this decision: he reportedly told Jefferson Davis the attack "will lose us every friend at the North. You will only strike a hornet's nest. ... Legions now quiet will swarm out and sting us to death. It is unnecessary. It puts us in the wrong. It is fatal."[10]

Talk of civil war, of willingness to fight if this or that line is crossed, is unwise precisely because such talk blurs the line separating those who start the fight from those who uphold and defend the constitution. It makes it more difficult for the marine, and the legions now quiet, to discern who truly is defecting.

283 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:20:34pm

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

No nation in the history of the world has so mastered the art of mass manipulation (i.e., 'marketing', 'public relations') like we have, and this is the result of that mastery. Even our euphemisms have euphemisms.

LOL!

And even our dogwhistles have dogwhistles.

284 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:20:34pm

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

This all stems from the constant flood of paranoid wingnut propaganda. Rush, Beck, Malkin, etc.

No nation in the history of the world has so mastered the art of mass manipulation (i.e., 'marketing', 'public relations') like we have, and this is the result of that mastery. Even our euphemisms have euphemisms.

"Truth", and "fact" are just symbols now, to be assigned any value the speaker wishes. How can you possibly oppose ignorance in such an environment?

Mockery.

285 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:20:41pm

Wouldn't it be fun if Bennett, having seen the new GOP for what it is, decided to caucus with the Democrats for the next six months? No filibusters, rational and reasoned debate on the issues--Climate Change legislation, Immigration Reform and Financial Reform all passed before November. McConnell's jowels would be sore and red from all the shaking they'd have to endure.

286 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:20:51pm

Real or fake?
Liquid Mountaineering

287 avanti  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:20:54pm

re: #248 iceweasel

OT, but more wingnut bullshit over Kagan:

Far-Right Group AFA Demands To Know Kagan’s Sexuality, Since ‘No Lesbian Is Qualified’ To Sit On SCOTUS

The religious right wingnuts are all mobilised: emails going out to their mailing lists.
I said early on that this year we were going to see homophobia explode on the right in much the same way that racism crawled out from under every rock last year. This is going to add to it.

I'm hoping it will backfire badly. I just spoke to a nice Christian lady that left her church over the issue. Her teenage daughter just came out to the family and she got sick of hatred she heard from the pulpit.
She found a church where both her and her daughter could receive "Christs love" as she put it. In hindsight, she knew her daughter was different, but now believes God make her that way, not that she's a "pervert"
Many of us have gay friends or family members and a hate campaign against someone on account of sexual preference won't go over as well as it might have 50 years ago. ( I hope)

288 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:21:03pm

re: #248 iceweasel

OT, but more wingnut bullshit over Kagan:

Far-Right Group AFA Demands To Know Kagan’s Sexuality, Since ‘No Lesbian Is Qualified’ To Sit On SCOTUS

The religious right wingnuts are all mobilised: emails going out to their mailing lists.
I said early on that this year we were going to see homophobia explode on the right in much the same way that racism crawled out from under every rock last year. This is going to add to it.

Scum. Absolute scum.

289 EastSider  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:21:23pm

re: #247 LudwigVanQuixote

When I say if it comes to it, I do not know where that line is. B ut let us imagine that the Teabaggers get elected. When will it "come to it?"

Is it when they haul off suspected terrorists, who are stripped of their citizenship?

Guantanamo, Holder's Miranda Plea today

Is it when they arrest folks for teaching science that they don't like?

They're making the law to teach the science they do like

Is it when they restrict your freedoms with call of if you have nothing to hde then why protest this camera or wire tap?

They can already do a lot in terms of privacy monitoring

Is it when they start finding enemies of the State under every corner and purge their political opponents?

I think we're still pretty far from this

A lot of this is already happening.

I think the issue is the dangling modifier of "they." The question is who do we really trust to be in power. I think Republicans/TPers are shit terrified that someone they don't like has control of the tools that they helped sharpen.

Personally, I don't like that anyone has that kind of power, because eventually someone will try to do bad things with it.

290 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:21:31pm

re: #252 jamesfirecat

Computer Science 445 Design/Analysis of Algorithms.

nice. go get it-

291 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:21:44pm

re: #275 elektramourns

I wonder how Lindsey Graham will handle it...he is known in SC to be gay, and he is a Log Cabin Republican. He cannot truthfully attack her for that issue unless he is an asshole and does not mind being outed.

Lindsey's defense to being outed will be to be all the more conservative...

Interesting...

Did you miss the wingnut smear of the week last week or so, when they were claiming that Graham was being 'blackmailed' over his sexuality by the Dems?

That was interesting.

292 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:21:51pm

Ireland Blasphemy Law:

"A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding 25,000 euro."

293 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:22:18pm

re: #284 Decatur Deb

Mockery.

Now you're talking my language.

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:22:19pm

re: #263 Lidane

Only if they've never seen Robotech. As it happens, I have. ;)

FSM save me from Linn Minmei and her insufferable self. I hated that character with the fire of a thousand suns.

My husband would like you!

295 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:22:26pm

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

Actually, Fozzie-- while I agree with your emotions, message control was historically much, much easier. In the past, the number of sources available to people were so small, and the governments or other powers-that-be so quick to stomp on any sort of rebellions thought, that people were far more influenced by propaganda, or at least unidirectional propaganda, than they are now.

Imperial Japan is a good example of a modern society with greater message control than we have.

296 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:22:30pm

re: #248 iceweasel

I wish I could say I was surprised.

I wonder how much crazier this rhetoric will get?

297 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:22:50pm

re: #283 Cato the Elder

LOL!

And even our dogwhistles have dogwhistles.

/So when I say that she's a very "empathetic" judge I mean she's a very "actavist judge" and when I say she's a very "actavist judge" I mean she'll continue to support our country's policy of killing unborn children emass....

298 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:22:56pm

re: #280 Liberal Classic

Are we talking about the Arizona law, or the quote by Joe Lieberman? I've read the Arizona law. It doesn't revoke citizenship. It authorizes police to ask for residency status, requires legal residents to carry proof of residency status, establishes legal residency as eligibility for public social services, makes a crime out of picking up day workers off the street, etc. It's not the Nuremberg Laws FFS.

Not the Arizona law. The Joe Lieb one.

299 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:23:01pm

re: #248 iceweasel

OT, but more wingnut bullshit over Kagan:

Far-Right Group AFA Demands To Know Kagan’s Sexuality, Since ‘No Lesbian Is Qualified’ To Sit On SCOTUS

The religious right wingnuts are all mobilised: emails going out to their mailing lists.
I said early on that this year we were going to see homophobia explode on the right in much the same way that racism crawled out from under every rock last year. This is going to add to it.

What in the world does her sexual orientation have to do with how well she can judge from the bench?

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:23:17pm

re: #272 Guanxi88

Exactly - there's no place left to go. Any sane American, irrespective of politics, cannot enjoy the levels of liberty that are available here. An American lefty would be just as pissed off living abroad as would an American righty, since they're both American in outlook and temperament.

There's places I could stand, but I'd rather be here.

301 MandyManners  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:23:37pm

re: #254 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh, here's another genius political ad from Alabama.

Gah. Lose the shit about evolution and keep the tax stuff.

302 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:23:43pm

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

This all stems from the constant flood of paranoid wingnut propaganda. Rush, Beck, Malkin, etc.

No nation in the history of the world has so mastered the art of mass manipulation (i.e., 'marketing', 'public relations') like we have, and this is the result of that mastery. Even our euphemisms have euphemisms.

"Truth", and "fact" are just symbols now, to be assigned any value the speaker wishes. How can you possibly oppose ignorance in such an environment?

I do it by subscribing to LGF through PayPal.

I'm thinking about that thing Barrett Brown is doing too.

303 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:23:48pm

re: #292 Gus 802

Ireland Blasphemy Law:

*Note to self; Do not go to Ireland*

304 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:24:13pm

re: #263 Lidane

Only if they've never seen Robotech. As it happens, I have. ;)

FSM save me from Linn Minmei and her insufferable self. I hated that character with the fire of a thousand suns.

All hail the Zentraedi

305 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:24:24pm

re: #275 elektramourns

I wonder how Lindsey Graham will handle it...he is known in SC to be gay, and he is a Log Cabin Republican. He cannot truthfully attack her for that issue unless he is an asshole and does not mind being outed.

Lindsey's defense to being outed will be to be all the more conservative...

Interesting...

You know, I'd been vaguely aware of Graham for twenty years or so, and I had never given his sexuality a thought until these nuts popped up yelling about it.

306 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:24:30pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

Really, I don't know. I don't know how representative this production is of Maine Republicans. Remember, the Bennett ouster in Utah wasn't something the voters did. Mainers may just dig in their heels. I don't know how popular Collins and Snowe are with their actual voters right now, as a opposed to with the Tea Zealots.

I see stuff like this mainepolitics.com (or whatever) blog post and just assume there is one part truth to five parts spin. You have to take all this sort of thing with a grain of salt. I do understand that liberals really like the idea that Republicans have suddenly all gone crazy..

307 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:24:39pm

re: #287 avanti

I'm hoping it will backfire badly. I just spoke to a nice Christian lady that left her church over the issue. Her teenage daughter just came out to the family and she got sick of hatred she heard from the pulpit.
She found a church where both her and her daughter could receive "Christs love" as she put it. In hindsight, she knew her daughter was different, but now believes God make her that way, not that she's a "pervert"
Many of us have gay friends or family members and a hate campaign against someone on account of sexual preference won't go over as well as it might have 50 years ago. ( I hope)

That's precisely why we'll see virulent homophobia on the right this year and next though-- because that particular culture war dogwhistle isn't making the dogs hunt any more.
Younger evangelicals especially don't care about the issue the way the religious right did in the 80's (and after). This is the last stand for the culture warriors like Dobson-- and they know it.

308 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:24:49pm

Seriously, screw the AFA. They're a bunch of dickheads who spend their lives whining about gays.

309 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:24:51pm

re: #303 Varek Raith

*Note to self; Do not go to Ireland*

Yep. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

310 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:25:06pm

re: #303 Varek Raith

*Note to self; Do not go to Ireland*

Yeah, well, while you're at it, don't set your time machine to 18th century Puritan New England. They won't fine you. They'll nail your tongue to a tree.

311 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:25:12pm

re: #263 Lidane

Only if they've never seen Robotech. As it happens, I have. ;)

FSM save me from Linn Minmei and her insufferable self. I hated that character with the fire of a thousand suns.

Minmei must die a peasant's death. Her cousin was an insufferable prick as well.

312 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:25:13pm

re: #305 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I'd been vaguely aware of Graham for twenty years or so, and I had never given his sexuality a thought until these nuts popped up yelling about it.

/I blame his parents personally, who names a male child "Lindsey" in the first place?

313 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:25:17pm

re: #233 McSpiff

But yet you have the right to compel me to pay for your defense through my taxes. Interesting.

I'd put it this way. I, (we, the majority), have the authority to so compel you. And whether you like to think of it this way or not, it is your own defense that you're paying for, as well as mine. But I wouldn't say that making you pay for the common defense is one of my rights, part of the life, liberty, etc. list. That's a different story. And now, you have the legal authority, (you, the majority) to compel me or some third party to pay into your health care insurance. On paper, it reads differently. But if by law the insurance company must take all comers, regardless of preexisting conditions, then you're not really buying insurance. You're receiving an entitlement, at somebody else's expense, if you do have that preexisting condition, or you're funding somebody else's entitlement, out of your own pocket, if you don't.

314 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:25:18pm

re: #292 Gus 802

Ireland Blasphemy Law:

They must fund their entire budget out of the pubs.

315 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:25:19pm

re: #292 Gus 802

Ireland Blasphemy Law.

Does that cover Islam as well as Christianity?

What about Buddha?

What about Thor?

316 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:25:21pm

re: #168 Fozzie Bear

I don't even know what to say anymore. The crazy is everywhere I look.

I'm past anger. It's more like a sort of acceptance that maybe humanity really just doesn't want to be enlightened or free, really. They just want somebody to blame when the shit goes down. Now it's "libruls", tomorrow, who knows what it will be.

I'm an atheist liberal. In the US, I may as well be satan.

Fuck this place.

Portland loves you! Portland loves all misfits, that's why I'm here :D

317 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:25:25pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

There's places I could stand, but I'd rather be here.


Bah! Where is an American to go? Sure, there are a few places one could tolerate, but you can hardly build a life there.

Unless you're thinking of Sicily or Paraguay.

318 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:25:31pm

re: #249 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't think we are there yet. I agree. I just want people to see what lies down that road and get real about it.

Bad craziness is contagious. Take care that in opposing the bad craziness that you don't come down with a case of it, too.

319 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:25:41pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

There's places I could stand, but I'd rather be here.

One thing I like about Canada, and I imagine it's similar with America is just the size. I'm beginning to think I want to move a few thousand miles away, to somewhere totally different! And I'll still be in the same country. You guys are even luckier with places like Puerto Rico.

320 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:25:41pm

re: #240 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, I see Sigma spent the morning defending the morality of day-trading. (One wonders: shouldn't he have been day-trading?)

Here's a quote from Michael Milken (remember him? the living embodiment of "greed is good"?) prominently posted on Sigma's sad little visitorless website that explains it all very succinctly:

"The secret to successful trading is to find people stupider than you to take advantage of."

That is the sum and essence of Sigma's philosophy.

I rest my case.

And until Sigma personally apologizes to Bagua for naming him as the eeevul Lizard who "deleted" all of Siggy's followers on Twitter, I suggest we scroll him to death, the pseudo-leftist attention whore.

Someone hacked LGF and all his apologies disappeared.

321 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:26:07pm

re: #279 LudwigVanQuixote

I agree with everything you said there.

I think the main problem is that it's a truism that we'll fight if America is threatened that greatly. But we have faced threats like this before-- like McCarthy-- and been able to take them down. I agree with the importance of doing so.

The English language makes it hard to say that 'we will' do something without making it seem like you consider it either inevitable or are speaking for everyone in the 'we'.

I agree with you that there are things that are worth fighting for. I would fight for them if the time so came. I would probably not be a very effective soldier, but I'd fight for them.

But I will do everything in my power to not let it come to that.

322 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:26:19pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

There's places I could stand, but I'd rather be here.

I can stand being here, but there's places I'd rather be.

323 avanti  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:26:26pm

re: #262 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A politician who thinks only parts of the Bible are true? STONE HIM!

///

They really would have a problem with this politician:


"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823"

324 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:26:38pm

re: #299 Walter L. Newton

What in the world does her sexual orientation have to do with how well she can judge from the bench?

Harder for Scalia to sway her.

325 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:26:40pm

re: #304 WindUpBird

All hail the Zentraedi

HAIL BREETAI!

326 MandyManners  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:26:43pm

re: #299 Walter L. Newton

What in the world does her sexual orientation have to do with how well she can judge from the bench?

You can think clearly only if you either have a penis or er...um..never mind.

327 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:27:09pm

re: #304 WindUpBird

All hail the Zentraedi

I have a VF-1 in my garage.

328 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:27:09pm

re: #315 Cato the Elder

Does that cover Islam as well as Christianity?

What about Buddha?

What about Thor?

I could only imagine that technically it would be a matter of filing a complaint and filling out the paper work. That or whoever makes the loudest noise.

I'm not so sure about Thor.

329 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:27:20pm

re: #308 HappyWarrior

Seriously, screw the AFA. They're a bunch of dickheads who spend their lives whining about gays.

It's very satisfying that an AFA goon was once smacked down and sued by a queer Oregonian. Puts a little spring in my step :D

330 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:27:39pm

re: #303 Varek Raith

*Note to self; Do not go to Ireland*

It's lovely...do go! I've seen plenty of blasphemy there, and no one has ever actually been dragged out of the pub before my eyes.

331 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:27:52pm

re: #327 Varek Raith

I have a VF-1 in my garage.

Do want! :D

332 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:27:53pm

re: #327 Varek Raith

I have a VF-1 in my garage.

I would still kill to have a Cyclone bike.

333 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:28:01pm

re: #326 MandyManners

You can think clearly only if you either have a penis or er...um..never mind.

What are you talking about? I have a penis and I've never thunk... er...um..never mind.

334 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:28:22pm

re: #306 cliffster

I see stuff like this mainepolitics.com (or whatever) blog post and just assume there is one part truth to five parts spin. You have to take all this sort of thing with a grain of salt. I do understand that liberals really like the idea that Republicans have suddenly all gone crazy..

I'm not sure 'like' sums it up, exactly...

335 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:28:30pm

re: #322 Cato the Elder

I can stand being here, but there's places I'd rather be.

Well, yeah, if I had a little place in Tusculum, I imagine I'd have much the same attitude.

336 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:28:39pm

re: #250 Cato the Elder

And the IRS is unconstitutional, too!

Good luck with that.

I didn't say that. And I wouldn't. Look: there was a constitutional amendment. After that amendment was ratified, the IRS was indeed constitutional. Anything can be made constitutional with an amendment.

If you're going to knock over straw men, try putting them somewhere near my actual position. Not 180 from it.

337 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:28:46pm

re: #329 WindUpBird

It's very satisfying that an AFA goon was once smacked down and sued by a queer Oregonian. Puts a little spring in my step :D


Haha very nice.

338 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:29:02pm

re: #313 lostlakehiker

I'd put it this way. I, (we, the majority), have the authority to so compel you. And whether you like to think of it this way or not, it is your own defense that you're paying for, as well as mine. But I wouldn't say that making you pay for the common defense is one of my rights, part of the life, liberty, etc. list. That's a different story. And now, you have the legal authority, (you, the majority) to compel me or some third party to pay into your health care insurance. On paper, it reads differently. But if by law the insurance company must take all comers, regardless of preexisting conditions, then you're not really buying insurance. You're receiving an entitlement, at somebody else's expense, if you do have that preexisting condition, or you're funding somebody else's entitlement, out of your own pocket, if you don't.

As long as you see the similarities between the two (and from my reading of your post, you do) then I agree with you.

339 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:29:19pm

re: #306 cliffster

So you don't think this actually happened, or what?

340 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:29:26pm

re: #321 Obdicut

I agree with everything you said there.

I think the main problem is that it's a truism that we'll fight if America is threatened that greatly. But we have faced threats like this before-- like McCarthy-- and been able to take them down. I agree with the importance of doing so.

The English language makes it hard to say that 'we will' do something without making it seem like you consider it either inevitable or are speaking for everyone in the 'we'.

I agree with you that there are things that are worth fighting for. I would fight for them if the time so came. I would probably not be a very effective soldier, but I'd fight for them.

But I will do everything in my power to not let it come to that.

I wish I had said it like that the first time. If I had, I would not have been misunderstood.

341 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:30:12pm

re: #322 Cato the Elder

You don't want to be here tomorrow night. Weather forecast is for 1 1/2 to 2 feet of snow between Tuesday evening and Wed.

By the way, your room is still here, it's my office now, computer is set up on the fold-down desk with all the cubbyholes... cozy.

342 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:30:14pm

re: #334 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not sure 'like' sums it up, exactly...

Sorry, I should have qualified it with, "some" or "many".

343 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:30:18pm

re: #318 Liberal Classic

Bad craziness is contagious. Take care that in opposing the bad craziness that you don't come down with a case of it, too.

See Obdis post. He said what I was trying to say better than I did. Take care that you don't draw a false equivalence.

344 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:30:27pm

re: #306 cliffster

I see stuff like this mainepolitics.com (or whatever) blog post and just assume there is one part truth to five parts spin. You have to take all this sort of thing with a grain of salt. I do understand that liberals really like the idea that Republicans have suddenly all gone crazy..

They haven't all gone crazy, it's just that they're all pandering to those who have gone crazy :D

345 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:30:55pm

re: #317 Guanxi88

Bah! Where is an American to go? Sure, there are a few places one could tolerate, but you can hardly build a life there.

Unless you're thinking of Sicily or Paraguay.

I wasn't thinking of either!

If I left the States for whatever reason, I'd probably look at Ireland. Israel is always a possibility, but my husband would whine.

346 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:31:03pm

re: #317 Guanxi88

Bah! Where is an American to go? Sure, there are a few places one could tolerate, but you can hardly build a life there.

Unless you're thinking of Sicily or Paraguay.

Oh please. There are plenty of successful and happy people in other places. The US is a decent place to live, but stop pretending it's the only one.

Pardon me if I don't join you in furiously humping the stars and stripes.

347 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:31:06pm

re: #336 lostlakehiker

I didn't say that. And I wouldn't. Look: there was a constitutional amendment. After that amendment was ratified, the IRS was indeed constitutional. Anything can be made constitutional with an amendment.

If you're going to knock over straw men, try putting them somewhere near my actual position. Not 180 from it.

So you think health-care reform should have required an amendment?

348 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:31:14pm

Dammit, now I want to watch Macross...

349 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:31:31pm

re: #343 LudwigVanQuixote

See Obdis post. He said what I was trying to say better than I did. Take care that you don't draw a false equivalence.

I stand by my words 100%.

350 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:31:31pm

re: #340 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm never impugning what's in your heart, man, just the way you put it.

Though I'd love to see a version of the torah or talmud as written by you.

351 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:31:56pm

OT: Good three-d googly-map site for understanding the size of the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

[Link: paulrademacher.com...]

352 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:32:03pm

re: #346 Fozzie Bear

Oh please. There are plenty of successful and happy people in other places. The US is a decent place to live, but stop pretending it's the only one.

Pardon me if I don't join you in furiously humping the stars and stripes.

For an American, I'd say America is a good place to live. I don't ask you to dry-hump old glory, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't wipe your feculent posterior on it.

353 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:32:28pm

re: #350 Obdicut

You mean translated, right? Writing the torah talks a fair amount of authority.

354 elektramourns  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:32:34pm

I loved it, and I wondered what action LIndsey would take. It would be his death sentence in South Carolina yet people seem to vaguely know about it.

AS with Kagan it should not be an issue but his GOP opponents will clearly use it against him. He has more to fear from the right. What is all this self-loathing? why not be open?

355 Renaissance_Man  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:32:39pm

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

This all stems from the constant flood of paranoid wingnut propaganda. Rush, Beck, Malkin, etc.

No nation in the history of the world has so mastered the art of mass manipulation (i.e., 'marketing', 'public relations') like we have, and this is the result of that mastery. Even our euphemisms have euphemisms.

"Truth", and "fact" are just symbols now, to be assigned any value the speaker wishes. How can you possibly oppose ignorance in such an environment?

This is the issue that strikes to the very core of all of this. We are reaching the point in the Information Age where the power to create alternate realities, false memes, and essentially control populations and events entirely through the information they receive, rather than force of law or force of arms, is the real power. Soon, we will reach the point where buying off politicians is irrelevant. Why would you bother doing that, and doing things that the public would never approve of behind their backs, when you can spend that effort and money on a marketing campaign that will have the public believe wholeheartedly that the dirty work you want done is the right thing?

Our capacity for rational thought has not kept pace with our capacity to disseminate information. We've always been vulnerable to demagoguery, of course. But the reach of that demagoguery has only been as far as the demagogue can get his message. Only now, in this age of 24 hour media, of the unlimited internet, do we have the power to truly create worlds where populations never have to leave their world of false facts. They never have to move out of the demagogue's reach - they never have to interact with other points of view or other information at all. There is no limit to the size of the cult you can create now. And there is no limit to the falsehoods you can give to them, because they will never have that falsehood challenged in any meaningful way.

There must be an answer. I don't yet know what it is. But I fear the vast power of our 24-hour media to create cults and memes far more than I fear any idiot Tea Partier getting elected.

356 MandyManners  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:33:06pm

Just walk away, Mandy. It ain't worth your BP spiking.

357 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:33:16pm

re: #345 SanFranciscoZionist

I wasn't thinking of either!

If I left the States for whatever reason, I'd probably look at Ireland. Israel is always a possibility, but my husband would whine.

Seems to me that if you're going to go abroad, one might as well go somewhere with a weak government and no enemies on the border.

358 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:33:39pm

re: #341 Walter L. Newton

You don't want to be here tomorrow night. Weather forecast is for 1 1/2 to 2 feet of snow between Tuesday evening and Wed.

By the way, your room is still here, it's my office now, computer is set up on the fold-down desk with all the cubbyholes... cozy.

Cubbyholes are win. *_* A friend of mine when I was in high school, his parents designed and built their home, and it was this awesome quirky dream house with cubbyholes and built in storage nooks everywhere, and weird catwalk balconies. It was glorious, it was like the Wincester Mansion. The computer (a 386, we stayed up late rocking the Wing Commander series) was in this little loft balcony that looked over the dining room.

359 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:33:47pm

re: #353 EmmmieG

I should have said just the Talmud. The LVQ commentaries on the Talmud.

360 RadicalModerate  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:34:00pm

re: #248 iceweasel

OT, but more wingnut bullshit over Kagan:

Far-Right Group AFA Demands To Know Kagan’s Sexuality, Since ‘No Lesbian Is Qualified’ To Sit On SCOTUS

The religious right wingnuts are all mobilised: emails going out to their mailing lists.
I said early on that this year we were going to see homophobia explode on the right in much the same way that racism crawled out from under every rock last year. This is going to add to it.

I saw this earlier today on the AFA site, but didn't want to link directly to them, for obvious reasons.

What I don't get is this - people who are not on the social/political right for the most part have few issues on identification of their sexual orientation. In other words if Kagan were to be a lesbian, she'd likely be "out" already - instead she has categorically denied the rumors. It's the self-proclaimed "righteous" types who are almost always caught with a prostitute, or taking a "wide stance".

Also, I just love this quote, given that conservatives have a 5-4 majority presently:

It’s time we got over the myth that what a public servant does in his private life is of no consequence. We cannot afford to have another sexually abnormal individual in a position of important civic responsibility, especially when that individual could become one of nine votes in an out of control oligarchy that constantly usurps constitutional prerogatives to unethically and illegally legislate for 300 million Americans.

We have a "sexually abnormal individual" currently seated on the Supreme Court? You mean those rumors about Clarence Thomas way back when were actually true?

361 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:34:15pm

re: #348 Varek Raith

Dammit, now I want to watch Macross...

They got em here

362 Renaissance_Man  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:34:40pm

re: #313 lostlakehiker

I'd put it this way. I, (we, the majority), have the authority to so compel you. And whether you like to think of it this way or not, it is your own defense that you're paying for, as well as mine.

There's no reason health care shouldn't have the same logic. It doesn't have to be a right. But the principle is exactly the same - it's our own care we're paying for, as well as yours.

363 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:34:40pm

re: #353 EmmmieG

...takes....

I'm on the "slow" computer and I don't see what I'm typing right away.

364 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:34:40pm

re: #359 Obdicut

I should have said just the Talmud. The LVQ commentaries on the Talmud.

Hell, I think if we gave the guy a good pot of coffee and an open mic, we'd have the makings of one hell of a radio talk show.

365 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:35:10pm

re: #346 Fozzie Bear

Oh please. There are plenty of successful and happy people in other places. The US is a decent place to live, but stop pretending it's the only one.

Pardon me if I don't join you in furiously humping the stars and stripes.

It's not so much that I desperately want to live in the US, it's that I desperately want to stay in Portland. :D And I will furiously and with great gusto hump the 503. SEXAY

366 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:35:11pm

SAVE THE GOP,
D E MOCRACY,
SAVE THE USA,
OBAMA ALL THE WAY!

omfg

367 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:35:21pm

re: #361 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They got em here

Fuck Yeah!
Nice quality, too!
I iz happy camper :)

368 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:35:38pm

re: #361 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They got em here

I find Anime to be kind of boring, and not even animated.

369 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:35:50pm

re: #349 Liberal Classic

I stand by my words 100%.

Always a bad idea.

370 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:36:06pm

re: #360 RadicalModerate

I'm sure they all think Ginsburg is queer. After all, she's a woman with a distinguished career AND THEY'RE ALL GAY I GUESS

371 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:36:10pm

re: #352 Guanxi88

For an American, I'd say America is a good place to live. I don't ask you to dry-hump old glory, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't wipe your feculent posterior on it.

I'd appreciate it if people would stop interpreting criticism of policies and philosophies as wiping one's ass on the flag. I would consider the ability to wipe one's ass on a flag openly to be a good sign that I am in the right place, honestly.

Don't confuse the symbols with what they represent.

372 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:36:13pm

re: #368 darthstar

I find Anime to be kind of boring, and not even animated.

BUUURRRRNNNN!~~~
///

373 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:36:24pm

re: #368 darthstar

I find Anime to be kind of boring, and not even animated.

In that case, it's manga.

374 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:36:28pm

re: #368 darthstar

I find Anime to be kind of boring, and not even animated.

Depends on the story and writing, like anything else.

375 Lidane  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:36:35pm

More GOP idiocy:

RNC uses Thurgood Marshall speech to attack Supreme Court nominee Kagan

Republicans are questioning Elena Kagan’s ties to a liberal icon and the nation’s first African-American Supreme Court justice, Thurgood Marshall.

In its first memo to reporters since Kagan’s nomination to the high court became public, the Republican National Committee highlighted Kagan’s tribute to Marshall in a 1993 law review article published shortly after his death.

Kagan quoted from a speech Marshall gave in 1987 in which he said the Constitution as originally conceived and drafted was “defective.”

Marshall cited in particular the definition in the original Constitution to slaves as representing three-fifths of “free Persons” when counting the nation’s population. That reference was rendered moot with the ratification, following the Civil War, of the 13th and 14th Amendments abolishing slavery and granting full citizenship to all people born in the U.S.

Kagan quoted him as saying the Supreme Court’s mission was to “show a special solicitude for the despised and the disadvantaged.”

“Does Kagan Still View Constitution ‘As Originally Drafted And Conceived’ As ‘Defective’?” the RNC asked in its research document. “And Does Kagan Still Believe That The Supreme Court's Primary Mission Is To ‘Show A Special Solicitude For The Despised And Disadvantaged’?”

376 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:36:41pm

re: #368 darthstar

I find Anime to be kind of boring, and not even animated.

Try Spirited Away and Paprika. I can guarantee you won't find them boring. :D

377 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:37:01pm

re: #355 Renaissance_Man

See my version at # 302. :)

378 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:37:13pm

re: #371 Fozzie Bear

I'd appreciate it if people would stop interpreting criticism of policies and philosophies as wiping one's ass on the flag. I would consider the ability to wipe one's ass on a flag openly to be a good sign that I am in the right place, honestly.

Don't confuse the symbols with what they represent.

Wait a minute - I thought you were leaving this place? Now you take offense? Which is it : Fuck this place, or glad I'm free to disrespect it, as those are two very different sentiments.

379 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:37:18pm

re: #355 Renaissance_Man

This. A thousand times this.

380 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:37:19pm

re: #376 WindUpBird

Try Spirited Away and Paprika. I can guarantee you won't find them boring. :D

I like paprika on my deviled eggs.

381 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:37:21pm

re: #376 WindUpBird

Try Spirited Away and Paprika. I can guarantee you won't find them boring. :D

Paprika was good.

382 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:37:28pm

re: #376 WindUpBird

Try Spirited Away and Paprika. I can guarantee you won't find them boring. :D

Upding for Spirited

383 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:37:37pm

re: #345 SanFranciscoZionist

I wasn't thinking of either!

If I left the States for whatever reason, I'd probably look at Ireland. Israel is always a possibility, but my husband would whine.


Bless their backward hearts, the Irish have had female and (part) Jewish presidents.

384 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:38:11pm

re: #375 Lidane

Wait, they're okay with the 3/5ths of a person thing?

That's where they're going? The RNC?

(still think this is just a liberal meme, cliffster?)

385 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:38:17pm

re: #383 Decatur Deb

Bless their backward hearts, the Irish have had female and (part) Jewish presidents.

To quote Yogi Berra: Only in America.

386 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:38:24pm

re: #358 WindUpBird

Cubbyholes are win. *_* A friend of mine when I was in high school, his parents designed and built their home, and it was this awesome quirky dream house with cubbyholes and built in storage nooks everywhere, and weird catwalk balconies. It was glorious, it was like the Wincester Mansion. The computer (a 386, we stayed up late rocking the Wing Commander series) was in this little loft balcony that looked over the dining room.

Well, this place has a combination of built in cubby holes, and a lot of plain pine book shelfs, not stand a lone, but all bolted to the walls, we have over 2000 books here, and actually probably a 1000 more downstairs on shelves and boxes.

All hardwood floors everywhere, no rugs, lodge pole pines for load bearing supports, lots and lots of wood.

But not lavish or anything, rustic, built 50 years ago, as a bar, about 10 miles from here, moved up here many years ago.

387 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:38:35pm

re: #382 Guanxi88

Upding for Spirited

Favorite animated film of all time *_*

388 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:38:44pm

re: #339 Obdicut

So you don't think this actually happened, or what?

I'm saying that I see this sort of thing and my eyes glaze over. It's really not that weird to see Bob write something bad about Billy, if Bob hates Billy. And if you read what Bob writes, you should take it with a grain of salt.

389 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:39:01pm

re: #317 Guanxi88

Bah! Where is an American to go? Sure, there are a few places one could tolerate, but you can hardly build a life there.

Unless you're thinking of Sicily or Paraguay.

There's a rather infamous politician (Umberto Bossi?) that wanted to use the Italian Navy to shoot illegal immigrants in the Mediterranean. Then try thinking about living with the constant racial tension against Romanian, gypsies, etc. Or the far-right politicians in Austria. The BNP, Vlaams Belang. Burkas banned in France. Minarets banned in Switzerland. Etc, etc.

390 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:39:20pm

re: #387 WindUpBird

Favorite animated film of all time *_*

I liked Bambi...I thought Thumper was funny, especially when he got twitterpated.

391 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:39:37pm

re: #386 Walter L. Newton

Well, this place has a combination of built in cubby holes, and a lot of plain pine book shelfs, not stand a lone, but all bolted to the walls, we have over 2000 books here, and actually probably a 1000 more downstairs on shelves and boxes.

All hardwood floors everywhere, no rugs, lodge pole pines for load bearing supports, lots and lots of wood.

But not lavish or anything, rustic, built 50 years ago, as a bar, about 10 miles from here, moved up here many years ago.

AHH AND IT USED TO BE A BAR?!?!?! *seizure* Seriously, that sounds like the greatest place ever.

392 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:40:11pm

re: #389 Gus 802

There's a rather infamous politician (Umberto Bossi?) that wanted to use the Italian Navy to shoot illegal immigrants in the Mediterranean. Then try thinking about living with the constant racial tension against Romanian, gypsies, etc. Or the far-right politicians in Austria. The BNP, Vlaams Belang. Burkas banned in France. Minarets banned in Switzerland. Etc, etc.

My point exactly - America's about as close to decent as folk are likely to find.

393 JeffM70  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:40:12pm

I weep for my state.re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

Really, I don't know. I don't know how representative this production is of Maine Republicans. Remember, the Bennett ouster in Utah wasn't something the voters did. Mainers may just dig in their heels. I don't know how popular Collins and Snowe are with their actual voters right now, as a opposed to with the Tea Zealots.

As a Maine resident I can tell you Collins and Snowe are very popular with Maine residents as a whole, but it's no longer certain they would win the Republican caucus.

394 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:40:20pm

re: #390 darthstar

I liked Bambi...I thought Thumper was funny, especially when he got twitterpated.

I do like Bambi! I like a lot of the Disney classics. Favorite of those is Alice in Wonderland, then Sleeping Beauty, then probably Rescuers Down Under.

395 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:41:01pm

re: #394 WindUpBird

I do like Bambi! I like a lot of the Disney classics. Favorite of those is Alice in Wonderland, then Sleeping Beauty, then probably Rescuers Down Under.

Sleeping Beauty... that puts you right there with my four-year-old daughter ;)

396 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:41:56pm

re: #375 Lidane

More GOP idiocy:

RNC uses Thurgood Marshall speech to attack Supreme Court nominee Kagan

[...] “Does Kagan Still View Constitution ‘As Originally Drafted And Conceived’ As ‘Defective’?” the RNC asked in its research document. “And Does Kagan Still Believe That The Supreme Court's Primary Mission Is To ‘Show A Special Solicitude For The Despised And Disadvantaged’?

Right. The constitution can't have been defective, because it was written by gods in human form, immutable, perfect, imperishable, in saecula saeculorum.

Wait, what? Those same gods amended the very document they crafted with the addition of the Bill of Rights?

Well, "amend" meant something different then, then!

As for the second question from the RNC, I surely hope the answer is "yes".

397 Lidane  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:42:06pm

re: #345 SanFranciscoZionist

If I left the States for whatever reason, I'd probably look at Ireland. Israel is always a possibility, but my husband would whine.

I'd go in the opposite direction and probably end up in New Zealand.

398 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:42:08pm

I was always a Secret of Nimh fan.

399 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:42:09pm

re: #394 WindUpBird

I do like Bambi! I like a lot of the Disney classics. Favorite of those is Alice in Wonderland, then Sleeping Beauty, then probably Rescuers Down Under.

The Jungle Book...that movie rocks. (My wife and I used "The Bear Necessities" as our exit song at our wedding last summer)

400 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:42:36pm

re: #390 darthstar

I liked Bambi...I thought Thumper was funny, especially when he got twitterpated.

Of course you realize Bambi was in large part responsible for the population explosion of deeyah.

401 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:42:38pm

re: #378 Guanxi88

Wait a minute - I thought you were leaving this place? Now you take offense? Which is it : Fuck this place, or glad I'm free to disrespect it, as those are two very different sentiments.

No they're not.

402 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:42:52pm

re: #378 Guanxi88

Wait a minute - I thought you were leaving this place? Now you take offense? Which is it : Fuck this place, or glad I'm free to disrespect it, as those are two very different sentiments.

Who said I was leaving?

Ohhh, you are one of those mind reading types.

403 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:42:57pm

re: #350 Obdicut

Though I'd love to see a version of the torah or talmud as written by you.

If there was ever anything that was over my pay grade it would be that.

As to the topic at hand, I have never been more afraid for my nation and the ideals that I have always believed in and was proud of when I called myself American.

There have always been sad and sorry nutjobs. I had thought that this nation had turned a corner in many ways. What we see though is that the [power of mass media and lies, endless lies designed to inflame wounded egosand instill pervasive fear and hatred has power. We see it in a way that was actually very well written about by Hitler himself. Understand what he wrote here in the greater context. See how it applies. It is pure evil. It works.

Before you judge my fear for this nation, or feel that I am being too crazy by saying, that it may, God forbid, come to a fight consider this bit from Mein Kampf:

The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

All propaganda must be popular and its intellectual level must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to. Consequently, the greater the mass it is intended to reach, the lower its purely intellectual level will have to be. But if, as in propaganda for sticking out a war, the aim is to influence a whole people, we must avoid excessive intellectual demands on our public, and too much caution cannot be extended in this direction.
The more modest its intellectual ballast, the more exclusively it takes into consideration the emotions of the masses, the more effective it will be. And this is the best proof of the soundness or unsoundness of a propaganda campaign, and not success pleasing a few scholars or young aesthetes.

The art of propaganda lies in understanding the emotional ideas of the great masses and finding, through a psychologically correct form, the way to the attention and thence to the heart of the broad masses. The fact that our bright boys do not understand this merely shows how mentally lazy and conceited they are.

Once understood how necessary it is for propaganda in be adjusted to the broad mass, the following rule results:
It is a mistake to make propaganda many-sided, like scientific instruction, for instance.

The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan. As soon as you sacrifice this slogan and try to be many-sided, the effect will piddle away, for the crowd can neither digest nor retain the material offered. In this way the result is weakened and in the end entirely cancelled out.

Thus we see that propaganda must follow a simple line and correspondingly the basic tactics must be psychologically sound.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

What, for example, would we say about a poster that was supposed to advertise a new soap and that described other soaps as 'good'?
We would only shake our heads.

Exactly the same applies to political advertising.

The function of propaganda is, for example, not to weigh and ponder the rights of different people, but exclusively to emphasize the one right which it has set out to argue for. Its task is not to make an objective study of the truth, in so far as it favors the enemy, and then set it before the masses with academic fairness; its task is to serve our own right, always and unflinchingly.

404 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:42:59pm

re: #376 WindUpBird

Try Spirited Away and Paprika. I can guarantee you won't find them boring. :D

I liked the Patlabor series.

405 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:43:46pm

re: #391 WindUpBird

AHH AND IT USED TO BE A BAR?!?!?! *seizure* Seriously, that sounds like the greatest place ever.

Except I keep finding rubbers in the corners :)

Yes, the common room (kitchen) and the living room were the main area of the bar, there is a step up to the living room. Looking at the way it's constructed, it appears that the common room was the bar area, and the living room would have been tables, maybe pool tables or a small band stand and dance area... the basement appears to have been constructed up here first, and then the bar moved and plopped on top (basement is only partially in ground, more like a walkout downstairs... a garage, which has been walled over, no entrance for cars anymore into the garage).

406 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:44:06pm

Re completely insane:
BOHICA alert:
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

407 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:44:25pm

re: #404 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I liked the Patlabor series.

"Avalon" is my favorite anime.

408 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:45:13pm

re: #392 Guanxi88

My point exactly - America's about as close to decent as folk are likely to find.

In a practical sense it could only work out if someone had friends or family there. Otherwise, it would be like a fish out of water. All they would do would replace one set of political grievances for another -- many of which may in fact be worse.

I'm sure the first sight of a soccer riot and/or soccer hooligans would be rather unsettling. Especially when they're mixed in with far-right skin heads as we sometimes see in the UK.

409 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:45:14pm

re: #346 Fozzie Bear

Oh please. There are plenty of successful and happy people in other places. The US is a decent place to live, but stop pretending it's the only one.

Pardon me if I don't join you in furiously humping the stars and stripes.

The problem is that America is so powerful. If, and I judge it an impossibly remote if, but if the U.S. were to go fascist, Ireland or Canada would be nice until they got treated to the fate that Belgium and Poland suffered the last time a fascist great power arose.

That's why, for Americans, there's no place to run. Right now, there's no reason to be thinking fight or flight. There's no fascist movement with any prospects. But if one did arise, flight would be immoral and futile.

410 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:45:21pm

re: #406 tradewind

Re completely insane:
BOHICA alert:
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

What's the worst that could happen?

411 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:45:52pm

re: #395 cliffster

Sleeping Beauty... that puts you right there with my four-year-old daughter ;)

It's one of the great classics! I'm a student of animation, my mother is a Disney obsessive who collects the animation cells and production drawings from disney films, and Maleficent is one of my favorite character designs of all time. it was back when they still handpainted EVERYTHING, and it has all that Ken Anderson look all over it.

Those films loom large as culture, they're not just for kids. They changed everything, they were the state of the art.

412 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:46:18pm

re: #323 avanti

They really would have a problem with this politician:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823"

"A law was made in the latter end of the last century repealing the cruel punishments of the former laws but substituting fine and imprisonment
upon all those blasphemers upon any book of the old Testament or new.

Now what free inquiry when a writer must surely encounter the risk of fine or imprisonment for adducing any argument for investigation into the divine authority of those books? Who would run the risk of translating Volney's Recherches Nouvelles? who would run the risk of translating Dupuis?

But I cannot enlarge upon this subject, though I have it much at heart. I think such laws a great embarrassment, great obstructions to the improvement of the human mind. Books that cannot bear examination certainly ought not to be established as divine inspiration by penal laws. The substance and essence of Christianity as I understand it is eternal and unchangeable and will bear examination forever but it has been mixed with extraneous ingredients, which I think will not bear examination and they ought to be separated."

--Adams to Jefferson

413 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:46:32pm

re: #407 Decatur Deb

"Avalon" is my favorite anime.

I will have to admit Tank Police is also a guilty pleasure of mine.

414 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:47:29pm

re:

415 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:47:32pm

re: #398 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I was always a Secret of Nimh fan.

Secret of NIMH is RIGHTEOUS. I gre wup watching that one to death, that and the little-known Animalympics, done by some of the same guys who would later use their glowy effects wizardy on the movie Tron.

416 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:47:38pm

re: #405 Walter L. Newton

Except I keep finding rubbers in the corners :)

Yes, the common room (kitchen) and the living room were the main area of the bar, there is a step up to the living room. Looking at the way it's constructed, it appears that the common room was the bar area, and the living room would have been tables, maybe pool tables or a small band stand and dance area... the basement appears to have been constructed up here first, and then the bar moved and plopped on top (basement is only partially in ground, more like a walkout downstairs... a garage, which has been walled over, no entrance for cars anymore into the garage).

And a shout out to my girlfriend, she's the one that built the board feet on board feet of plain pine book shelves... when I moved in she even built some new shelves for my hundred or so research books and misc. novels.

417 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:47:52pm

re: #403 LudwigVanQuixote

It's just sophistry, with a fancy name.

418 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:48:31pm

BBL

419 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:48:35pm

re: #417 Fozzie Bear

Propaganda, that is.

420 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:48:42pm

re: #383 Decatur Deb

Bless their backward hearts, the Irish have had female and (part) Jewish presidents.

I wouldn't mind living in England, well, parts of England, but I don't think I would want to raise kids there.

421 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:48:55pm

re: #399 darthstar

The Jungle Book...that movie rocks. (My wife and I used "The Bear Necessities" as our exit song at our wedding last summer)

Awww! That's awesome :D

422 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:49:00pm

re: #415 WindUpBird

Secret of NIMH is RIGHTEOUS. I gre wup watching that one to death, that and the little-known Animalympics, done by some of the same guys who would later use their glowy effects wizardy on the movie Tron.

Jenner is one of my all time favorite villains.

423 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:49:04pm

re: #411 WindUpBird

It's one of the great classics! I'm a student of animation, my mother is a Disney obsessive who collects the animation cells and production drawings from disney films, and Maleficent is one of my favorite character designs of all time. it was back when they still handpainted EVERYTHING, and it has all that Ken Anderson look all over it.

Those films loom large as culture, they're not just for kids. They changed everything, they were the state of the art.

Excellent article in a Vanity Fair a couple of months ago:

Coloring the Kingdom

Behind the breakthrough magic of Walt Disney’s first animated feature, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, and his other 30s and 40s classics—Pinocchio, Fantasia, Bambi—toiled as many as 100 young women, the inkers and painters, working from dawn to dusk on thousands of cels that brought his dreams to life. The author recaptures their white-gloved esprit de corps, and a golden age of Disney that would be disrupted by strike, World War II, and, eventually, the Xerox machine.

424 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:49:19pm

re: #355 Renaissance_Man

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

see my 403

The bottom line is when I say we are facing Nazis, I am not making an exaggeration.

We facing the same memes but with a different American flavor. It's cowboys and Jesus rather than Wagner and Wotan. But those differences are superficial. What matters is that they are speaking the same ideas, just in a different language, and the effects are spreading through the same mechanisms. They are spreading in the same patterns.

The only reason this has not been more successful is that we have not hit an economic collapse.

However, if we do, If the economy tanks. We are in position now to see some angry Jesus misquoting cowboy sweep into power and then consolidate it. The base is already primed. The brown shirts are ripe for recruitment. We will live in a fascist state at that point.

425 RadicalModerate  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:49:21pm

re: #263 Lidane

Only if they've never seen Robotech. As it happens, I have. ;)

FSM save me from Linn Minmei and her insufferable self. I hated that character with the fire of a thousand suns.

Robotech was a blasphemy. Believe me, the original three series that Carl Macek combined were *much* better as individual series.

And I'd assume that you're basing your hatred for Lynn Minmay on the Robotech version - the original Macross series had her as a much more sympathetic character. Side note: I actually got to meet the original voice actress (Mari Iijima) a few years back, as she's now a US resident. Very pleasant lady, actually.

426 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:49:24pm

re: #402 Fozzie Bear

Who said I was leaving?

Ohhh, you are one of those mind reading types.

re: #168 Fozzie Bear

I don't even know what to say anymore. The crazy is everywhere I look.

I'm past anger. It's more like a sort of acceptance that maybe humanity really just doesn't want to be enlightened or free, really. They just want somebody to blame when the shit goes down. Now it's "libruls", tomorrow, who knows what it will be.

I'm an atheist liberal. In the US, I may as well be satan.

Fuck this place.

In general, those are the obiter dicta of one on his way out the door.

As you seem now determined to condescend to dwell in the bastion of benighted boors that is the USA, I must conclude you're a masochist or a saint. Or both; or inconsistent.

427 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:49:30pm

re: #346 Fozzie Bear

Oh please. There are plenty of successful and happy people in other places. The US is a decent place to live, but stop pretending it's the only one.

Pardon me if I don't join you in furiously humping the stars and stripes.

Xactly. it's the best place for those who think it's the best place. but plenty of people are quite happy in other places, and God bless them too...there are a buttload of fascinating places to live on this little world of ours...

428 lawhawk  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:49:44pm

Sick twisted criminal act of the day. Three New Mexico men lured and kidnapped a mentally challenged man and branded him with a swastika and shaved his hair in the form of a swastika.

429 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:49:47pm

re: #420 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't mind living in England, well, parts of England, but I don't think I would want to raise kids there.

I would love to fly down tiny little English roads in a Caterham or an Elise, but I don't think i could live there either.

430 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:49:51pm

re: #393 JeffM70

I weep for my state.


As a Maine resident I can tell you Collins and Snowe are very popular with Maine residents as a whole, but it's no longer certain they would win the Republican caucus.

What would happen if they ran as Democrats?

431 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:50:16pm

BBIAB - getting ready for work...

432 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:50:33pm

re: #426 Guanxi88

In general, those are the obiter dicta of one on his way out the door.

As you seem now determined to condescend to dwell in the bastion of benighted boors that is the USA, I must conclude you're a masochist or a saint. Or both; or inconsistent.

Your mind reading skills need work.

433 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:50:39pm

re: #423 Stanley Sea

they're not kidding about the Xerox machine, that's what they started using for cel production, was xerography.

434 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:51:10pm

re: #420 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't mind living in England, well, parts of England, but I don't think I would want to raise kids there.

It's way better to be an American overseas than to be a local. I've often said the back page of the passport should be a group portrait of the 101st Airborne.

435 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:51:27pm

re: #432 Fozzie Bear

Your mind reading skills need work.

So, one can say "Fuck this place" and in fact intend to stay therein? Seems to me it's not my mentalism that needs work, but rather your modes of expression.

436 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:51:32pm

re: #428 lawhawk

Sick twisted criminal act of the day. Three New Mexico men lured and kidnapped a mentally challenged man and branded him with a swastika and shaved his hair in the form of a swastika.

Sick fucks.

437 Old Dragon  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:51:45pm

Re: Maine.

Not at the top of my listing when I think of places that influence much policy. "As Maine goes......so goes NH ???"

Honestly now.

Lob-stah and scenic coastline, a-yuh.
This platform sounds as though they already have dismantled the Dept. of Education.

Old Dragon who loves Maine as a tourist should.

438 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:51:50pm

re: #409 lostlakehiker

The problem is that America is so powerful. If, and I judge it an impossibly remote if, but if the U.S. were to go fascist, Ireland or Canada would be nice until they got treated to the fate that Belgium and Poland suffered the last time a fascist great power arose.

That's why, for Americans, there's no place to run. Right now, there's no reason to be thinking fight or flight. There's no fascist movement with any prospects. But if one did arise, flight would be immoral and futile.

Oh, piffle.

If fascists ever did take power in this country, there are plenty of people in plenty of other countries who would take in threatened Americans just to piss on the fascists' shoes.

re: #408 Gus 802

In a practical sense it could only work out if someone had friends or family there. Otherwise, it would be like a fish out of water. All they would do would replace one set of political grievances for another -- many of which may in fact be worse.

I'm sure the first sight of a soccer riot and/or soccer hooligans would be rather unsettling. Especially when they're mixed in with far-right skin heads as we sometimes see in the UK.

As someone who moved to Europe in his early twenties and stayed for a decade, I beg to differ.

America is a great place. So are a lot of other places. The notion that every human being on earth would come here if they could is pure drivel.

I would move to the Cape Verde Islands or the Azores in a heartbeat. Ditto Portugal, France, Germany, England, Scotland, Ireland, Sweden, Iceland, Greece, Italy, or the Czech Republic. For starters.

Not because I hate America, but because I'm bored with it.

439 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:51:58pm

re: #424 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

see my 403

The bottom line is when I say we are facing Nazis, I am not making an exaggeration.

We facing the same memes but with a different American flavor. It's cowboys and Jesus rather than Wagner and Wotan. But those differences are superficial. What matters is that they are speaking the same ideas, just in a different language, and the effects are spreading through the same mechanisms. They are spreading in the same patterns.

The only reason this has not been more successful is that we have not hit an economic collapse.

However, if we do, If the economy tanks. We are in position now to see some angry Jesus misquoting cowboy sweep into power and then consolidate it. The base is already primed. The brown shirts are ripe for recruitment. We will live in a fascist state at that point.

So I guess you believe it would be high time for the Dems to get armed and organized?

440 bosforus  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:52:19pm
It also contains favorable mentions of both the Tea Party and Ron Paul. You can read the whole thing here.

No thank you.

441 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:52:47pm

re: #429 WindUpBird

I would love to fly down tiny little English roads in a Caterham or an Elise, but I don't think i could live there either.

I think I could have a great time living in Cork or Galway, though.

442 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:53:06pm

re: #422 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Jenner is one of my all time favorite villains.

I love Don Bluth, because he's edgy and crazy and just one of the all time virtuoso animating gods :D He probably shouldn't have spent so much time trying to do laserdisc arcade games, but man the animation in those things. o_o

443 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:53:50pm

re: #400 Spare O'Lake

Of course you realize Bambi was in large part responsible for the population explosion of deeyah.

We need more Godzillas to help with that problem.

444 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:53:58pm

re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote

YOur unwillingness to realize that the founding fathers were correct about the need to be vigilant to preserve freedom, and that it does not come for free, reflects badly on you. Notice my phrases. I am not hoping that violence happens. I am saying that if it comes to it, because these animals started it, I will fight - and so will anyone who has a real belief in America.

WTF? This is starting to sound like the rhetoric of very people that you consider to be a threat to freedom.

445 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:54:00pm

re: #441 SanFranciscoZionist

I think I could have a great time living in Cork or Galway, though.

I lived in Galway a month last summer. Awesome city and awesome people. I can't wait to go back honestly. Just don't know when that it is.

446 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:54:39pm

re: #444 ryannon

WTF? This is starting to sound like the rhetoric of very people that you consider to be a threat to freedom.

Not at all; the radicals are all on the other side, see?

447 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:54:42pm

re: #438 Cato the Elder


America is a great place. So are a lot of other places. The notion that every human being on earth would come here if they could is pure drivel.

Totally agree. I dig America, doesn't mean I have to be all HARDCORE WE'RE NUMBER ONE FOREVER about it.

448 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:54:59pm

re: #428 lawhawk

Sick twisted criminal act of the day. Three New Mexico men lured and kidnapped a mentally challenged man and branded him with a swastika and shaved his hair in the form of a swastika.

oh oh oh

449 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:55:34pm

re: #419 Fozzie Bear

Propaganda, that is.

It is so much more than that. Consider this part:

The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan. As soon as you sacrifice this slogan and try to be many-sided, the effect will piddle away, for the crowd can neither digest nor retain the material offered. In this way the result is weakened and in the end entirely cancelled out.

This is the essence of why big lies work. We have to be clear on this. Educated and thinking people always understand that issues are usually complex and require research and deliberation. Educated people have a certain humility about what they know because they are receptive to new information.

Educated people always get their asses kicked in a propaganda war because they falsely assume everyone is just as reasonable as they are.

We are losing this fight on the level of propaganda. We don't fight like Fox does. Fox fights like the nazis did and is bearing great fruit.

Hitler was totally evil. If you want to fight evil effectively, it is important to recognize it when you see it. The nazis were brilliant in their evil. They understood mass psychology and the darker parts of the human condition. They were innovators in bringing that out on a national scale. We are seeing the same things here and now in my nation.

450 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:55:43pm

re: #445 HappyWarrior

I lived in Galway a month last summer. Awesome city and awesome people. I can't wait to go back honestly. Just don't know when that it is.

Cork has a synagogue, which is in its favor.

451 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:56:40pm

speaking of animation, I got to make a bunch of stuff move around a screen in exchange for currency

452 Renaissance_Man  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:57:02pm

re: #424 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

see my 403

The bottom line is when I say we are facing Nazis, I am not making an exaggeration.

You're right, in that the rhetoric and memes are essentially the same. However, the difference here, I think, is that the ultimate goal in the Germany of the 1930s was agitation for another war to restore German pride, and to claim the Lebensraum Hitler coveted. Here and now, the motivation is different - the agitation comes almost entirely from media personalities and the faceless blogosphere, and is motivated mostly by a desire to generate an angry emotional response to build a following. There isn't really any cohesive thread binding it all together except hatred of 'liberals' and all things 'liberal'.

Should they come to power, all things that smacked of 'liberalism', whatever some demagogue might be able to attach that label to, would be in for a hard time. The consequences for domestic and foreign policy would be disastrous. Would they lead to turmoil as great as the Second World War? Hard to say.

453 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:57:07pm

re: #435 Guanxi88

So, one can say "Fuck this place" and in fact intend to stay therein?


Yes, yes they can. Staggering, I know.

Seems to me it's not my mentalism that needs work, but rather your modes of expression.


Or perhaps it's just you aren't as good at reading between the lines as you think.

I really don't care if you care. That's the thing. Re-read what I said above. I don't care if me wiping my ass on your symbol offends you, because I don't value the symbol, at all. I value what it purports to represent. Perhaps you do value the symbol, I don't know. I also don't assume that I know. And I don't care.

454 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:57:12pm

re: #450 SanFranciscoZionist

Cork has a synagogue, which is in its favor.

Wasn't in Cork unfortunately. My profile pic by the way is a photo I took outside of Dingle down in Kerry. I'm biased to Galway honestly since my family was from there on my dad's side. Tried like hell to find perhaps distant relatives while I was there to no avail.

455 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:57:16pm

re: #447 WindUpBird

Totally agree. I dig America, doesn't mean I have to be all HARDCORE WE'RE NUMBER ONE FOREVER about it.

So you're saying you dont have a 3 piece suit made from the American flag, a red white and blue cowboy hat and a cell phone ringtone of "God bless America"?

HERETIC!

///

456 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:57:56pm

re: #450 SanFranciscoZionist

Cork has a synagogue, which is in its favor.

And Irish chicks are really, really, hot too...or so I've been told.

457 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:58:34pm

re: #454 HappyWarrior

Wasn't in Cork unfortunately. My profile pic by the way is a photo I took outside of Dingle down in Kerry. I'm biased to Galway honestly since my family was from there on my dad's side. Tried like hell to find perhaps distant relatives while I was there to no avail.

It's beautiful. Did you get a chance to go out to Aran?

458 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:58:36pm

re: #447 WindUpBird

Totally agree. I dig America, doesn't mean I have to be all HARDCORE WE'RE NUMBER ONE FOREVER about it.

We are number one. All others are number two, or lower.

459 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:58:43pm

re: #453 Fozzie Bear

Or perhaps it's just you aren't as good at reading between the lines as you think.

I really don't care if you care. That's the thing. Re-read what I said above. I don't care if me wiping my ass on your symbol offends you, because I don't value the symbol, at all. I value what it purports to represent. Perhaps you do value the symbol, I don't know. I also don't assume that I know. And I don't care.

Good. So, it's still fuck this place, then? And yet, you claim to value it? Your attitude toward the flag means little or nothing to me.

Just trying to figure out your approach.

460 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:58:55pm

re: #456 Spare O'Lake

And Irish chicks are really, really, hot too...or so I've been told.

Mmm, redheads!

461 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:59:11pm

re: #442 WindUpBird

I love Don Bluth, because he's edgy and crazy and just one of the all time virtuoso animating gods :D He probably shouldn't have spent so much time trying to do laserdisc arcade games, but man the animation in those things. o_o

HA! when i was in college, my folks' basement flooded and the insurance check was enough for my dad and brother to do the labor themselves, saving enough money to put in a little home theater room.

dad bought a laserdisc player because he thought it was the successor to the VHS! and this from a guy who'd never driven anything more flashy than a Chevy Corsica because he hated the thought of his money depreciating in a car asset.

whoops - DVD came out the next year or so;)

462 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:59:16pm

re: #439 Spare O'Lake

So I guess you believe it would be high time for the Dems to get armed and organized?

NO it is high time for people who care about America to pause and reflect on what really makes us free and realize where the far right is headed.

It is time for educated people who get this to start screaming bloody murder so it never comes to that.

463 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 12:59:41pm

re: #452 Renaissance_Man

You're right, in that the rhetoric and memes are essentially the same. However, the difference here, I think, is that the ultimate goal in the Germany of the 1930s was agitation for another war to restore German pride, and to claim the Lebensraum Hitler coveted. Here and now, the motivation is different - the agitation comes almost entirely from media personalities and the faceless blogosphere, and is motivated mostly by a desire to generate an angry emotional response to build a following. There isn't really any cohesive thread binding it all together except hatred of 'liberals' and all things 'liberal'.

Should they come to power, all things that smacked of 'liberalism', whatever some demagogue might be able to attach that label to, would be in for a hard time. The consequences for domestic and foreign policy would be disastrous. Would they lead to turmoil as great as the Second World War? Hard to say.

This is a distinction without a difference. First you build up the hate, then you take power. It's exactly the same equation as the Nazis used.

464 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:00:08pm

re: #460 Mad Al-Jaffee

Mmm, redheads!

I'm detecting a trend, here.

465 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:00:16pm

re: #457 SanFranciscoZionist

It's beautiful. Did you get a chance to go out to Aran?

Yep, that was another exercision we had. We went on this awesome bike ride up the island.

466 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:00:31pm

re: #463 Cato the Elder

This is a distinction without a difference. First you build up the hate, then you take power. It's exactly the same equation as the Nazis used.

That is exactly what I was going to respond with.

467 kirkspencer  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:00:39pm

re: #239 Liberal Classic

You know, I don't support the Arizona law. I think that law is the wrong answer to a real problem. I also think some of the provisions of the law will lead to racial profiling and harassment of legal residents and citizens. And I do think there are some racists cheering it on.

That having been said, can we please have some sense of perspective? We're a long way from the Nuremberg Laws. Good grief.

Really? I'm going to quote in full a translation of the second of the laws, -- the Reich Citizenship law. Source linked after the quote. I ask you to read it, and then consider how close some of the laws such as the Arizona come in intent if not specificity.

The Reich Citizenship Law
(September 15, 1935)

Article I

1. A subject of the State is a person who belongs to the protective union of the German Reich, and who therefore has particular obligations towards the Reich.

2. The status of subject is acquired in accordance with the provisions of the Reich and State Law of Citizenship.

Article 2

1. A citizen of the Reich is that subject only who is of German or kindred blood and who, through his conduct, shows that he is both desirous and fit to serve the German people and Reich faithfully.

2. The right to citizenship is acquired by the granting of Reich citizenship papers.

3. Only the citizen of the Reich enjoys full political rights in accordance with the provision of the laws.

Article 3

The Reich Minister of the Interior in conjunction with the Deputy of the Fuhrer will issue the necessary legal and administrative decrees for carrying out and supplementing this law.

Translation source: Jewish Virtual Library

468 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:00:40pm

re: #458 Liberal Classic

We are number one. All others are number two, or lower.

And why am I wearing the watermelon on my feet?

469 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:01:19pm

re: #459 Guanxi88

Good. So, it's still fuck this place, then? And yet, you claim to value it? Your attitude toward the flag means little or nothing to me.

Just trying to figure out your approach.

I think perhaps you started with the assumption that I'm not at all conflicted about it? I am.

I value certain ideas which I think we are (as a nation) in danger of abandoning. Perhaps that sheds light on my point of view.

470 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:01:43pm

re: #460 Mad Al-Jaffee

Mmm, redheads!

Give me the Galway girls where her hair is black but her eyes are blue. Sorry lol it's a Steve Earle song that I heard everywhere in Galway.

471 JeffM70  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:02:05pm

re: #430 SanFranciscoZionist

What would happen if they ran as Democrats?

I wouldn't be on them winning simply from the standpoint that caucus (as we have in Maine) and primary results tend to be determined by the more partisan members. Interestingly enough, Snowe actually is more popular with Democrats and Independents than with Republicans right now, so who knows.

472 jaunte  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:02:09pm

re: #468 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And why am I wearing the watermelon on my feet?

[Link: wavs.unclebubby.com...]

473 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:02:34pm

re: #467 kirkspencer

cf. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

474 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:02:34pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

NO it is high time for people who care about America to pause and reflect on what really makes us free and realize where the far right is headed.

It is time for educated people who get this to start screaming bloody murder so it never comes to that.

But if educated people are necessarily at a disadvantage in the propaganda war being waged so successfully by the enemies of America, isn't the effort doomed from the start, given that intellect and education aren't widely distributed in the overall population of the politically energized?

"Be reasonable" is not exactly an inspiring slogan, after all.

475 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:02:45pm

re: #467 kirkspencer

Thank G-d I am not alone, and I am not the only one who see this.

476 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:02:54pm

re: #454 HappyWarrior

Wasn't in Cork unfortunately. My profile pic by the way is a photo I took outside of Dingle down in Kerry. I'm biased to Galway honestly since my family was from there on my dad's side. Tried like hell to find perhaps distant relatives while I was there to no avail.

I stayed in the village of Clahan on the other side of Connor's Pass from Dingle for several summers. A wonderful place and marvelous people. The perfume of Kerry peat burning in a fireplace still signifies bliss for me....

477 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:03:36pm

re: #465 HappyWarrior

Yep, that was another exercision we had. We went on this awesome bike ride up the island.

I had a wonderful couple of days out there about ten years ago. It's an amazing place. I even had a dog to take a walk with--this dog showed up and escorted me for several miles. And there's really nothing more amazing than sitting in the hotel bar and listening to teenage girls in pink lipgloss gossiping in Irish.

478 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:04:03pm

re: #469 Fozzie Bear

I think perhaps you started with the assumption that I'm not at all conflicted about it? I am.

I value certain ideas which I think we are (as a nation) in danger of abandoning. Perhaps that sheds light on my point of view.

All right, then, I think we're on the same page, just different columns, as it were.

479 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:04:06pm

re: #475 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank G-d I am not alone, and I am not the only one who see this.

You aren't alone, I have thought these things before. I am just not sure that I am any longer of the belief that anything can be done about it, really.

I really fervently hope I am wrong.

480 webevintage  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:04:16pm

re: #375 Lidane

Kagan quoted him as saying the Supreme Court’s mission was to “show a special solicitude for the despised and the disadvantaged.”

“Does Kagan Still View Constitution ‘As Originally Drafted And Conceived’ As ‘Defective’?” the RNC asked in its research document. “And Does Kagan Still Believe That The Supreme Court's Primary Mission Is To ‘Show A Special Solicitude For The Despised And Disadvantaged’?”

The more important question is does the GOP NOT think that as originally drafted the Constitution was defective in regards to slavery?

481 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:05:28pm

re: #479 Fozzie Bear

You aren't alone, I have thought these things before. I am just not sure that I am any longer of the belief that anything can be done about it, really.

I really fervently hope I am wrong.

I'm coming in from the Right side, and share the sentiment.

482 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:05:33pm

re: #455 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So you're saying you dont have a 3 piece suit made from the American flag, a red white and blue cowboy hat and a cell phone ringtone of "God bless America"?

HERETIC!

///

well, in his defense, i have that suit, but only because i make that shit look good//

483 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:06:05pm

re: #480 webevintage

The more important question is does the GOP NOT think that as originally drafted the Constitution was defective in regards to slavery?

When you start putting the document on an altar, these kinds of things happen.

484 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:06:10pm

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

NO it is high time for people who care about America to pause and reflect on what really makes us free and realize where the far right is headed.

It is time for educated people who get this to start screaming bloody murder so it never comes to that.

It appears to me that the more the left "screams bloody murder" the farther to the right the reactionary pendulum is swinging. This is a political strategy by the left to marginalize the right and I think it's probably working. Of course there's no telling what can happen when folks get crazy.

485 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:06:53pm

re: #451 WindUpBird

speaking of animation, I got to make a bunch of stuff move around a screen in exchange for currency

Shaking your booty in a porn movie is not the same thing as animation :)

486 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:06:57pm

re: #456 Spare O'Lake

And Irish chicks are really, really, hot too...or so I've been told.

it's the accent. that accent turns perfectly cute women into goddesses...

487 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:06:58pm

Where's all the right-wingers on this board and how come they're not busy defending their beloved party? Is it because it was Charles who called out the GOP for being the ridiculous theater of the absurd that it's become? I find it really interesting that, were it me or one of the other left-leaning posters here that said something disparaging about the republican party as a whole, along the lines of what Charles wrote, we/I would've been quickly dog-piled on for "painting with a broad brush" or for "generalizing."

But when Charles says it: crickets. The right-wing crowd around here simply vanishes, instead of sticking around to try and defend the indefensible.

Where'd they go? It's like magic!

488 RadicalModerate  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:06:58pm

No link yet, but CNN's reporting (and has amateur video) of a major student demonstration in Iran protesting the execution of dissidents over the weekend.

489 ShaunP  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:06:59pm

re: #480 webevintage

The more important question is does the GOP NOT think that as originally drafted the Constitution was defective in regards to slavery?

Or women's sufferage...

490 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:07:30pm

re: #474 Guanxi88

But if educated people are necessarily at a disadvantage in the propaganda war being waged so successfully by the enemies of America, isn't the effort doomed from the start, given that intellect and education aren't widely distributed in the overall population of the politically energized?

"Be reasonable" is not exactly an inspiring slogan, after all.

It is to some.

491 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:08:30pm

re: #486 Aceofwhat?

it's the accent. that accent turns perfectly cute women into goddesses...


Yep, can't go wrong with a girl with an Irish accent.

492 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:08:35pm

oh, brother

493 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:09:16pm

re: #487 Sigma_x

Where's all the right-wingers on this board and how come they're not busy defending their beloved party? Is it because it was Charles who called out the GOP for being the ridiculous theater of the absurd that it's become? I find it really interesting that, were it me or one of the other left-leaning posters here that said something disparaging about the republican party as a whole, along the lines of what Charles wrote, we/I would've been quickly dog-piled on for "painting with a broad brush" or for "generalizing."

But when Charles says it: crickets. The right-wing crowd around here simply vanishes, instead of sticking around to try and defend the indefensible.

Where'd they go? It's like magic!

Go diddle some stupid people, according to your Milken maxim: "The secret to successful trading is to find people stupider than you to take advantage of."

Turkey.

494 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:09:39pm

re: #492 Aceofwhat?

oh, brother

I have an hour a 15 minutes before I have to leave to "bag groceries." Can we get this over in that period of time?

495 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:10:00pm

re: #487 Sigma_x

What you've said isn't true in the least. Do you really read this site?

496 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:10:07pm

re: #490 Cato the Elder

It is to some.

I'm thinking of its inspirational value for the masses, Cato, not for such as we.

We live in the age of the microcast masses, sad to say. What radio did for mass propaganda, the web etc is doing at the individualized level. It is now possible to live in a bubble more or less that confirms and even deepens one's own prejudices. And no coercive state power is required to effect this miracle.

I tell ya, mass literacy was the beginning of the end.....

497 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:10:24pm

re: #368 darthstar

I find Anime to be kind of boring, and not even animated.

I don't have time right now, but you and I need to have a little talk. "Perfect Blue" is the best thriller ever.

498 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:10:38pm

re: #474 Guanxi88

But if educated people are necessarily at a disadvantage in the propaganda war being waged so successfully by the enemies of America, isn't the effort doomed from the start, given that intellect and education aren't widely distributed in the overall population of the politically energized?

"Be reasonable" is not exactly an inspiring slogan, after all.

That is correct. That is why you keep the message simple and direct.

Teabaggers promote fear and hatred like nazis will do.

Teabaggers promote Nazi values will do.

Now when good educated folks "say hey wait a minute!" the educated people need to have all of their facts in a row to back it up - and do so in a reasonable and educated manner that is capable of accepting distinctions and all the finer points of debate. The difference between the two is that what we are saying has a strong factual basis behind it for those who care to see the case made. I'm saying it may be propaganda to use memes to win arguments, but it isn't evil propaganda if it is true.

For the average stupid person who does no research into anything, they get that nazis are bad folks and that American liberties are good things. That is the important point. Because the avewrage stupid person who does no research into anything already believes that evolution and AGW are myths and that black helicopters are going to take their grannies to death panels.

So just be really clear about how the teabaggers really are nazi scum. Say it l;oud and mean it. When asked by someone who knows history what is meant by that, explain it. The average person will not ask so teach them. But start with the main point first and make it bite sized.

The Teabaggers are fucking nazis who will destroy America if they can.

499 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:11:07pm

re: #496 Guanxi88

I'm thinking of its inspirational value for the masses, Cato, not for such as we.

We live in the age of the microcast masses, sad to say. What radio did for mass propaganda, the web etc is doing at the individualized level. It is now possible to live in a bubble more or less that confirms and even deepens one's own prejudices. And no coercive state power is required to effect this miracle.

I tell ya, mass literacy was the beginning of the end...

That's because it was never achieved.

500 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:11:19pm

re: #494 Walter L. Newton

I have an hour a 15 minutes before I have to leave to "bag groceries." Can we get this over in that period of time?

i was told that your employment status means that i am supposed to disbelieve anything that you say...but it's hard...because i love the mountains and the snow and anything that dwells therein...

501 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:11:29pm

re: #496 Guanxi88

That makes the opposite of sense.

Previously, people generally had one source of information, or two: the oligarchs of their society, and the religious leaders.

Now they have more, and less chance of never being exposed to a contrary opinion.

502 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:11:49pm

re: #475 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank G-d I am not alone, and I am not the only one who see this.

Of course you're not alone - nor are you the only one who sees this. I can see it from where I am in France, and I can even see it happening in France, the UK and probably a lot of other places which don't enjoy a high media profile.

It's a shitty time on the planet for sure. And a time for reasonable people of good will to do their best to prevent it from getting any worse.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

503 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:12:51pm

re: #498 LudwigVanQuixote

You're never going to convince people that the folk at the Tea Partiers are stormtroopers without portfolio. Your appeal must be not a reductio ad hitlerum, but rather a "none of these people have the slightest clue as to what they're talking about."

504 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:13:22pm

re: #500 Aceofwhat?

i was told that your employment status means that i am supposed to disbelieve anything that you say...but it's hard...because i love the mountains and the snow and anything that dwells therein...

I was told that Walter is stupid, ugly, and old, and then that I am too.

Σ = troll derivative

505 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:13:22pm

re: #496 Guanxi88

Mass literacy isn't the same thing as lots of people being able to read.

We have never achieved mass literacy, no culture ever has.

506 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:13:43pm

re: #487 Sigma_x

Where's all the right-wingers on this board and how come they're not busy defending their beloved party? Is it because it was Charles who called out the GOP for being the ridiculous theater of the absurd that it's become? I find it really interesting that, were it me or one of the other left-leaning posters here that said something disparaging about the republican party as a whole, along the lines of what Charles wrote, we/I would've been quickly dog-piled on for "painting with a broad brush" or for "generalizing."

But when Charles says it: crickets. The right-wing crowd around here simply vanishes, instead of sticking around to try and defend the indefensible.

So where do you think gold is going to go?

Where'd they go? It's like magic!

507 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:14:00pm

re: #501 Obdicut

That makes the opposite of sense.

Previously, people generally had one source of information, or two: the oligarchs of their society, and the religious leaders.

Now they have more, and less chance of never being exposed to a contrary opinion.

It is the way of the world. One can very easily fall into a realm where one's every belief is perpetually confirmed and never contradicted. Doubt it at your peril.

509 Lidane  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:15:04pm

Even more fail from Caribou Barbie:

Sarah Palin: American Law Should Be 'Based On The God Of The Bible And The Ten Commandments'

Sarah Palin joined Fox News's Bill O'Reilly recently to condemn the critics of the National Day of Prayer, saying that the Judeo-Christian belief was the basis for American law and should continue to be used as a guiding force for creating future legislation.

According to Palin, the recent backlash against the National Day of Prayer is proof that some people are trying to enact a "fundamental transformation of America" and to "revisit and rewrite history" in order to shift the Christian nation away from its spiritual roots.

Palins's advice: "Go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant -- they're quite clear -- that we would create law based on the God of the bible and the ten commandments."

510 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:15:41pm

re: #503 Guanxi88

You're never going to convince people that the folk at the Tea Partiers are stormtroopers without portfolio. Your appeal must be not a reductio ad hitlerum, but rather a "none of these people have the slightest clue as to what they're talking about."

And that is where you slip into wrongness. They know full well what sort of vision of America they have. They may not get the full implications of it. They may not have a clear voice to make sensible arguments out of their inchoate rage, but they do certainly know in their own minds what they are talking about.

No pointing out their lies and stupidity is a supporting argument.

Pointing out that their goals and tactics are nazi goals and nazi tactics and that such things never end well is the point.

511 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:15:45pm

re: #504 Cato the Elder

I was told that Walter is stupid, ugly, and old, and then that I am too.

Σ = troll derivative

Strange, I never thought of you as old.

512 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:15:49pm

re: #507 Guanxi88

The thing is, we have never before lived in an age where any two people, regardless of location, can co-opt a third to their perspective, without ever leaving the house.

The old paradigms don't fully apply, imo.

513 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:16:46pm

re: #504 Cato the Elder

I was told that Walter is stupid, ugly, and old, and then that I am too.

Σ = troll derivative

i only got stupid...apparently there is at least some common ground on my belief that i am pretty...

514 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:16:56pm

re: #84 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes. It is obvious that the GOP does not have the courage to police their own. The propaganda they have legitimatized from Fox and the wingnuts has taken on a life of its own. The lost the tiger's tail. If they fight it now, they have to admit how they fed the tiger in the first place. They will have no such courage.

Personally, I think the intelligence check is going to come when one of these medieval morons pulls a McVeigh.

So much talk of propaganda... You sound like Noam Chomsky.

/too much?

515 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:17:36pm

re: #513 Aceofwhat?

i only got stupid...apparently there is at least some common ground on my belief that i am pretty...

Hey, I have no belief on that score one way or the other.

It wasn't till yesterday that I even found out you were a grrrl.

516 ShaunP  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:17:38pm
517 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:17:41pm

re: #503 Guanxi88

You're never going to convince people that the folk at the Tea Partiers are stormtroopers without portfolio. Your appeal must be not a reductio ad hitlerum, but rather a "none of these people have the slightest clue as to what they're talking about."

Exactly. Just keep linking this over and over:

The Misinformed Tea Party Movement
Bruce Bartlett, 03.19.10, 12:01 AM EDT
For an antitax group, they don't know much about taxes.

518 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:18:10pm

re: #512 Fozzie Bear

The thing is, we have never before lived in an age where any two people, regardless of location, can co-opt a third to their perspective, without ever leaving the house.

The old paradigms don't fully apply, imo.

And we agree, yet again. All the implication of the new communications technologies haven't been worked out yet. Will it be mass atomism, a sort of hive-like thing, with the occasional burst of more or less spontaneously organized events, or what form will it all take?

519 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:18:29pm

re: #507 Guanxi88

Okay. I not only doubt it, I'm saying that what you're saying was far more likely before there was mass literacy. Do you not understand why I'm saying that or something?

Back in the bad old days, especially pre-Enlightenment, many cultures held that ordinary people couldn't even really think right. There was no sense that their opinions even mattered one whit. To the extent they did have opinions, ones that went against the group tended to be very directly punished. That's why the early printers were subject to such persecution by the state.

I can see no way, at all, that your argument makes any sense. Yes, it's true people can just post on Stormfront if they want and never get challenged. That doesn't mean they get no other information elsewhere; hell, a ton of the posts on Stormfront are about how the mass media totally got some story wrong.

I agree totally that people can choose to isolate themselves. Where you're completely and utterly wrong is that mass literacy has aided this.

520 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:19:07pm

re: #500 Aceofwhat?

i was told that your employment status means that i am supposed to disbelieve anything that you say...but it's hard...because i love the mountains and the snow and anything that dwells therein...

Power went out, I had too much stuff running in this part of the house... just rebooted and got back...

Did I miss the apology from Sigma_x?

521 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:19:13pm

re: #509 Lidane

Guh.

Dan Barker on FOX News re: National Day of Prayer

522 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:19:36pm

re: #498 LudwigVanQuixote


The Teabaggers are fucking nazis who will destroy America if they can.

I think that American political history is replete with politicians and movements who have used hatred, fear and bigotry to advance their political aims. That did not make them nazis...it made them haters, fearmongers and bigots.

523 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:19:47pm

re: #438 Cato the Elder

As someone who moved to Europe in his early twenties and stayed for a decade, I beg to differ.

America is a great place. So are a lot of other places. The notion that every human being on earth would come here if they could is pure drivel.

I would move to the Cape Verde Islands or the Azores in a heartbeat. Ditto Portugal, France, Germany, England, Scotland, Ireland, Sweden, Iceland, Greece, Italy, or the Czech Republic. For starters.

Not because I hate America, but because I'm bored with it.

Azores, especially Sao Miguel, is magnificent. I envy you for having been to Cape Verde.

524 Interesting Times  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:19:56pm

re: #509 Lidane

Even more fail from Caribou Barbie:

Sarah Palin: American Law Should Be 'Based On The God Of The Bible And The Ten Commandments'

Palins's advice: "Go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant -- they're quite clear -- that we would create law based on the God of the bible and the ten commandments."


There's a demotivational poster for that...

525 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:20:55pm

re: #519 Obdicut

The quip about mass literacy was a joke.

526 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:21:20pm

re: #504 Cato the Elder

I was told that Walter is stupid, ugly, and old, and then that I am too.

Σ = troll derivative

I don't think you are stupid, you ugly old man.

527 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:21:32pm

re: #514 Nimed

So much talk of propaganda... You sound like Noam Chomsky.

/too much?

If you weren't a friend I would likely beat you for that :)

Yes it was too much. You see Chomsky gets these points too. That is why he is so effective in his Israel bashing.

528 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:21:49pm

re: #506 ryannon

I totally messed up my reply in 506.

529 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:21:51pm

i've made a habit of every time i hear or read the word tea party i immediately seek out the benny hill theme song on youtube before i continue listening or reading any further.

530 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:22:31pm

re: #517 iceweasel

Where were you, (and other liberals) last night, iceweasel? I had no one to whine with about the big disappointment that was Kagan's pick. All I got was right-wing schadenfreude and left-wing "absolute confidence in Obama, because he know what he is doing".

531 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:22:59pm

re: #522 Spare O'Lake

I think that American political history is replete with politicians and movements who have used hatred, fear and bigotry to advance their political aims. That did not make them nazis...it made them haters, fearmongers and bigots.

Spare there is much more to it than that. Have you missed the 50 posts I have made on all the different parallels. I am not making these things up.

Look, if you want the definitive essay about this, look up Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism.

532 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:22:59pm

re: #529 spacejesus

i've made a habit of every time i hear or read the word tea party i immediately seek out the benny hill theme song on youtube before i continue listening or reading any further.

Yakety Sax?

533 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:23:27pm

re: #524 publicityStunted


There's a demotivational poster for that...

I LOVE IT!

Jimmah and I had only made this about Pammy:
Image: pammotivater.jpg

534 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:24:16pm

re: #504 Cato the Elder

I was told that Walter is stupid, ugly, and old, and then that I am too.

Σ = troll derivative

I think you're pretty, Cato.

535 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:24:22pm

re: #504 Cato the Elder

I was told that Walter is stupid, ugly, and old, and then that I am too.

Σ = troll derivative

I hate to be that guy at the party, but a Σ is much more likely to a troll integral.

536 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:24:28pm

re: #525 Guanxi88

The quip about mass literacy was a joke.

Okay. The rest of your post is still strangely off, though, in a similar way. When you said

It is now possible to live in a bubble more or less that confirms and even deepens one's own prejudices

,

that has always been true. And it hasn't ever needed state coercion; states have used coercion because it's useful to them.

I'm basically wondering how you think more information, the ability to fact-check, the impossibility of censorship in the modern media means that it's easier for people to wall themselves off from other opinions. It makes it more dramatically stupid when they do, but how on earth is it easier?

537 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:24:37pm

re: #532 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yakety Sax?

yup, sometimes i put it on loop

538 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:24:43pm

re: #529 spacejesus

i've made a habit of every time i hear or read the word tea party i immediately seek out the benny hill theme song on youtube before i continue listening or reading any further.

539 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:25:34pm

re: #530 Nimed

Where were you, (and other liberals) last night, iceweasel? I had no one to whine with about the big disappointment that was Kagan's pick. All I got was right-wing schadenfreude and left-wing "absolute confidence in Obama, because he know what he is doing".

I was just reading that thread and wishing I'd been around to help you out!
I just knew it would be Kagan and I'm pretty unhappy. Feh.

Jimmah and and I were otherwise occupied, IYKWIM....

540 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:25:40pm

re: #519 Obdicut

Back in the bad old days, especially pre-Enlightenment, many cultures held that ordinary people couldn't even really think right.

Post-Enlightenment, it is clear that the common clay of humanity is much the same as it ever was; indeed, there's a suspicion that the spread of communications has not aided enlightenment to any extent greater than it has facilitated the transmission of pernicious nonsense.

541 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:25:50pm

re: #487 Sigma_x

Oh, please.
The GOP sucks.
Ooohhh, downding Armageddon for me!!!
Wait, no?
o_O

542 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:26:16pm

re: #535 McSpiff

I hate to be that guy at the party, but a Σ is much more likely to a troll integral.

My bad.

The "x" in his name stands for the unknown quantity of his skin's thinness on any given day.

543 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:26:32pm

re: #540 Guanxi88

Post-Enlightenment, it is clear that the common clay of humanity is much the same as it ever was; indeed, there's a suspicion that the spread of communications has not aided enlightenment to any extent greater than it has facilitated the transmission of pernicious nonsense.

No, that last part you keep saying is totally wrong. Why do you believe it? That's what I'm asking.

544 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:26:51pm

re: #508 Slumbering Behemoth

Every Summer Music Festival You've Ever Been To

Awesome...been there...done that.

545 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:27:11pm

re: #536 Obdicut

My point is that the masses are now brainwashing and propagandizing themselves. It's no longer necessary to have a censor, when the citizen/subject is more than prepared to take over that function on his own.

546 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:27:28pm

re: #543 Obdicut

No, that last part you keep saying is totally wrong. Why do you believe it? That's what I'm asking.

Have you looked at popular culture lately?

547 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:27:51pm

re: #524 publicityStunted


There's a demotivational poster for that...

Now that is what I am talking about!

548 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:29:15pm

re: #508 Slumbering Behemoth

Every Summer Music Festival You've Ever Been To

ahahahaha yes

"genre-defying nutjob"

All the summer music festivals I went to were more focused, they were all alt/rock (Lollapalooza, endfest) or local Seattle metal bands. :D

549 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:29:17pm

And now, for something completely different.

Catch ya later, Lizards.

550 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:29:48pm

re: #545 Guanxi88

And again: That has always been true as well. I'm not sure what you're not understanding about what I'm saying. The state has used various means to coerce people into believing what it wants, but on their own, people have always been able to self-censor and refuse to listen to the truths about their own pet ideas, as well. It is much harder to do in the modern day when you might, say, post something on your blog about AGW and then have someone post a link to the reality; you can still scorn it and deny it, but you have still actually seen it.

Why do you think that self-censorship is a new phenomenon?

551 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:29:52pm

re: #504 Cato the Elder

I was told that Walter is stupid, ugly, and old, and then that I am too.

Σ = troll derivative

You like Ice and fire, you can't be stupid. A stupid person would get lost 5 chapters in.

Never saw your face, so I can't say if you are ugly.

But I am going to have to go with old. No hipster considers himself a Roman. And yes I wrote that to vex the GF.

552 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:29:54pm

re: #543 Obdicut

No, that last part you keep saying is totally wrong. Why do you believe it? That's what I'm asking.

That's simple enough - I do not believe that people today are in any meanignful way different, in their temperament, character, and intellect, than they were a thousand years ago. I believe in the durability of human nature, and suspect that the 'net, etc., facilitates the exchange of pleasantries and rumors among the peasantry, even as it also facilitates the exchanges of the greater minds, making it more or less a wash.

553 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:30:00pm

re: #546 Cato the Elder

Have you looked at popular culture lately?

Some of it's good!

554 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:30:31pm

re: #553 WindUpBird

meant to link in that post...

555 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:30:52pm

re: #543 Obdicut

No, that last part you keep saying is totally wrong. Why do you believe it? That's what I'm asking.

According to the polls, how many people believe that 9-11 was an inside job? And what did they base that opinion on? And where did they find it?

556 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:30:52pm

re: #546 Cato the Elder

Have you looked at popular culture lately?

Yes. It highly resembles popular culture from any other point in time. Can you explain what's significantly different?

557 allegro  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:31:16pm

re: #531 LudwigVanQuixote

Spare there is much more to it than that. Have you missed the 50 posts I have made on all the different parallels. I am not making these things up.

Look, if you want the definitive essay about this, look up Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism

A thoughtful person who has a mind open to being educated might respond to arguments outlining these parallels and understand the points you are trying to make. But these are not the people populating the tea party and those sympathetic to that propaganda to whom these appeals are being directed. The only word heard is NAZIS! Then the response "no, YOU are the Nazi! ad infinitum. It is not effective approach, IMO.

558 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:31:28pm

re: #548 WindUpBird

ahahahaha yes

"genre-defying nutjob"

All the summer music festivals I went to were more focused, they were all alt/rock (Lollapalooza, endfest) or local Seattle metal bands. :D

I mainly go to blues festivals, and I'm usually there more as a performer (or volunteer) than a spectator.

559 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:31:30pm

re: #556 Obdicut

Yes. It highly resembles popular culture from any other point in time. Can you explain what's significantly different?

the music scene is beginning to wrap around to the 70's. Which i find HIGHLY DESIRABLE

560 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:31:56pm

re: #515 Cato the Elder

Hey, I have no belief on that score one way or the other.

It wasn't till yesterday that I even found out you were a grrrl.

This should be good - what did i do to give that mistaken impression?

(not that i'm offended...divining gender over teh intertoob is always an entertaining endeavor.)

561 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:32:12pm

re: #548 WindUpBird

I went to this one in '99. It. Was. AWESOME!

All right, now I really need to split. Laters.

562 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:32:21pm

re: #552 Guanxi88

That's simple enough - I do not believe that people today are in any meanignful way different, in their temperament, character, and intellect, than they were a thousand years ago. I believe in the durability of human nature, and suspect that the 'net, etc., facilitates the exchange of pleasantries and rumors among the peasantry, even as it also facilitates the exchanges of the greater minds, making it more or less a wash.

But you didn't say it was more or less a wash-- you said that it was now possible for people to self-censor, indicating it wasn't before.

I'm sorry, but ignoring that the internet allows people to factcheck in a way that they haven't been able to before is odd. I also have no idea why you think peasantry and greater minds are opposed categories, but that's beside the point.

563 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:32:26pm

re: #550 Obdicut

Intersubjective certitude is the fancy name for it; individuals are now able, across untold distances, to find, foster, and confirm, the most outlandish beliefs, and can, indeed, construct an entire epistemic and even sub-cultural apparatus for the maintenance of a belief that would, a scant 50 years ago, have had them certifiably committed to the state nervous hospital for crafts therapy.

See "gang stalking" as a good instance of this.

564 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:32:35pm

re: #546 Cato the Elder

Have you looked at popular culture lately?

'When I hear the words "pop culture" I reach for my popgun.'

565 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:33:13pm

re: #564 Decatur Deb

'When I hear the words "pop culture" I reach for my popgun.'

time to reach for the popcorn.

566 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:33:16pm

re: #553 WindUpBird

Some of it's good!

And some fungus is tasty.

It's still always something that grows on the corpse of a higher life-form.

567 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:33:28pm

re: #561 Slumbering Behemoth

I went to this one in '99. It. Was. AWESOME!

All right, now I really need to split. Laters.


YOU WENT TO DYNAMO?!?!?!?! YOU BASTARD

*jealousy*

568 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:33:44pm

re: #556 Obdicut

Yes. It highly resembles popular culture from any other point in time. Can you explain what's significantly different?

More depravity.

569 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:33:59pm

re: #560 Aceofwhat?

This should be good - what did i do to give that mistaken impression?

(not that i'm offended...divining gender over teh intertoob is always an entertaining endeavor.)

ZOMG, THERE ARE GRRRLS HERE?!?!
:P

570 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:34:13pm

re: #568 Cato the Elder

More depravity.

Worse, depravity that claims there is nothing higher than itself.

571 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:34:22pm

re: #568 Cato the Elder

More depravity.

Quicker access to it, at least. :D

572 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:34:28pm

re: #562 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but ignoring that the internet allows people to factcheck in a way that they haven't been able to before is odd. I also have no idea why you think peasantry and greater minds are opposed categories, but that's beside the point.

Do you honestly think that the internet has improved people's grasp on facts?

573 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:34:37pm

re: #539 iceweasel

I was just reading that thread and wishing I'd been around to help you out!
I just knew it would be Kagan and I'm pretty unhappy. Feh.

Jimmah and and I were otherwise occupied, IYKWIM...

:)
Glad someone was having fun.

574 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:34:53pm

re: #560 Aceofwhat?

This should be good - what did i do to give that mistaken impression?

(not that i'm offended...divining gender over teh intertoob is always an entertaining endeavor.)

Hmm. I thought I saw something to that effect yesterday. From someone else, who called you "she".

575 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:35:25pm

re: #572 cliffster

Do you honestly think that the internet has improved people's grasp on facts?

It improved their reach, don't know about their grasp.

576 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:35:25pm

re: #557 allegro

A thoughtful person who has a mind open to being educated might respond to arguments outlining these parallels and understand the points you are trying to make. But these are not the people populating the tea party and those sympathetic to that propaganda to whom these appeals are being directed. The only word heard is NAZIS! Then the response "no, YOU are the Nazi! ad infinitum. It is not effective approach, IMO.

You are missing the dynamics here.

Most of them are stupid sheep. They are tasting the "power" of collective anger fot he first time in their beta lives. Like all bullies, their strength is in numbers and perceived popularity and fear.

The only message to point at them is, you are nazi scum and if you fight, you will not be able to bully us or cow us, in fact, we will kick your asses. It is important to make certain they get that we are not scared. Bullies only like easy targets.

The main message though is for the millions of Americans who think that the Teabaggers might be crazy, but really don't know and are subject to the teabag propaganda. The point that the teabaggers really are nazi scum who will destory American values is not only true, correct and accurate, but an inoculation for the masses.

577 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:35:26pm

re: #563 Guanxi88

Intersubjective certitude is the fancy name for it; individuals are now able, across untold distances, to find, foster, and confirm, the most outlandish beliefs, and can, indeed, construct an entire epistemic and even sub-cultural apparatus for the maintenance of a belief that would, a scant 50 years ago, have had them certifiably committed to the state nervous hospital for crafts therapy.

See "gang stalking" as a good instance of this.

I don't really care if there's a fancy term for it-- what importance is there to distance in this regard? Distance doesn't seem like it matters at all, when talking about the capability of people to self-censor. Can you explain why the fact that now people can adapt dogmatic ideas from far away rather than from close by matters?

Can you give an example of something that people can construct a sub-culture for now that would have gotten them committed fifty years ago?

578 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:35:36pm

re: #568 Cato the Elder

More depravity.

We're not exactly naming our horses to the Imperial Senate.

579 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:35:44pm

re: #564 Decatur Deb

'When I hear the words "pop culture" I reach for my popgun.'

Why not a bop gun?

580 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:36:02pm

re: #572 cliffster

Do you honestly think that the internet has improved people's grasp on facts?

it provides tools for people to increase their grasp on facts, but it doesn't do it for you.

581 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:36:15pm

re: #539 iceweasel

I was just reading that thread and wishing I'd been around to help you out!
I just knew it would be Kagan and I'm pretty unhappy. Feh.

Jimmah and and I were otherwise occupied, IYKWIM...

Ice baby, there are many lizards who regularly get some :) We are happy though that you are happy ;)

582 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:36:20pm

re: #568 Cato the Elder

More depravity.

More depravity than when? Then when there was bear-baiting? Or when there were public executions?

583 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:36:50pm

re: #568 Cato the Elder

More depravity.

More opportunity to carry deparavity out and more publicicty of said depravity. I don't know if that translates to a more depraved society because there are also many positive trends and resources enabled by the light speed technology we have today.

584 webevintage  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:36:59pm

re: #530 Nimed

Where were you, (and other liberals) last night, iceweasel? I had no one to whine with about the big disappointment that was Kagan's pick. All I got was right-wing schadenfreude and left-wing "absolute confidence in Obama, because he know what he is doing".

I don't I took part because I don't know enough about her except I normally assume that if someone is annoying both sides of the political spectrum then they might be doing something right.

585 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:37:02pm

re: #581 LudwigVanQuixote

Ice baby, there are many lizards who regularly get some :) We are happy though that you are happy ;)

Sometimes with another person even!

586 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:37:04pm

re: #582 Obdicut

More depravity than when? Then when there was bear-baiting? Or when there were public executions?


Cato has been around for thousands of years, he ought to know...
//

587 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:37:41pm

re: #530 Nimed

Where were you, (and other liberals) last night, iceweasel? I had no one to whine with about the big disappointment that was Kagan's pick. All I got was right-wing schadenfreude and left-wing "absolute confidence in Obama, because he know what he is doing".

yeah, but you have to admit, we were pretty kind to you - i know i felt bad that you were crying out for company on that topic and getting no love in return.

i know i'm contractually obliged not to feel sympathetic for dyed-in-the-wool libruls, but what can i say...i'm a bad republican.

588 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:37:43pm

re: #572 cliffster

Do you honestly think that the internet has improved people's grasp on facts?

Grasp- no
Availability - yes
ability to make meaning of facts - heck no.

589 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:37:52pm

re: #568 Cato the Elder

More depravity.

And less attention-span.

590 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:37:52pm

re: #571 WindUpBird

Quicker access to it, at least. :D

A culture that finds movies like "The Human Centipede" to be just another form of entertainment has passed into a realm in which I do not care to live.

591 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:38:05pm

re: #410 Guanxi88
The ' audit the Fed' cries could get louder?//
Heck, what's one more bailout?

592 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:38:17pm

re: #586 rwdflynavy

Cato has been around for thousands of years, he ought to know...
//

Are you calling him old? He doesn't like that.

593 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:38:23pm

re: #577 Obdicut

I don't really care if there's a fancy term for it-- what importance is there to distance in this regard? Distance doesn't seem like it matters at all, when talking about the capability of people to self-censor. Can you explain why the fact that now people can adapt dogmatic ideas from far away rather than from close by matters?

Can you give an example of something that people can construct a sub-culture for now that would have gotten them committed fifty years ago?

Gang stalking is a nice place to begin. It is clearly a web-based epiphenomenon of paranoid schizophrenia. If, 50 years ago, a person were to ask "Say, do you think there's a possibility that I am being targeted by a group of total strangers, all of whom communicate in secret, for the sole purpose of harassing me in ways that are not visible to those around me?" that same person would certainly be thought insane. Today, however, he or she can find an entire community of similarly delusional folk, all of whom provide independent confirmation of the experience, and exchange theories as to its origin and purpose.

594 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:38:29pm

re: #568 Cato the Elder

More depravity.

What's your position on Lions v. Christians?

595 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:38:36pm

re: #592 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you calling him old? He doesn't like that.

Let's go with ancient.

596 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:38:59pm

re: #578 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We're not exactly naming our horses to the Imperial Senate.

That was an honest jape by a sane man compared to what we're doing today.

597 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:39:04pm

re: #594 Decatur Deb

What's your position on Lions v. Christians?

You've got to root for the underdog.

598 allegro  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:39:26pm

re: #576 LudwigVanQuixote

You are missing the dynamics here.

I believe I am seeing the dynamics quite clearly.

The point that the teabaggers really are nazi scum who will destory American values is not only true, correct and accurate, but an inoculation for the masses.

And as soon as you say that, and in those exact terms, you have shut down the avenue of communicating with the very people to whom you wish to convince. Therefore, it is a ineffective argument, regardless of how accurate it may be.

599 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:39:44pm

re: #580 WindUpBird

it provides tools for people to increase their grasp on facts, but it doesn't do it for you.

It also provides tools for people to become completely misinformed on things. I think those tools generally win out.

600 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:40:04pm

re: #576 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm sorry, Ludwig, but there's one aspect I disagree with. First of all, a lot of bullies don't just pick on the cowards. I was told that, but it's not true. Plenty of bullies fight each other, fight the teachers, fight fucking anyone they can. THeir motivations are not so simple. Some of them basically act in a nihilistic fashion.

Likewise, I think we see a lot of nihilistic behavior from people on the fringe in the political spectrum, too-- with active fantasies about society breaking down, of themselves being murdered during a race war, etc. Sure, some of them also talk about their bunkers and surviving it, but many of them seem very happy to simply predict a completely absurd doom scenario, all the while ignoring very real threats.

Furthermore, before the actual experience of battle, many people are unafraid of it. If you challenge a person who's a bully at heart but never really gotten into a fight, they may not back down because they don't actually have any experience getting their asses kicked.

I do not think that the people who are fomenting unrest are all of one type. I don't think only one approach will work.

601 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:40:05pm

re: #582 Obdicut

More depravity than when? Then when there was bear-baiting? Or when there were public executions?

Who says bear-baiting and public executions are gone? Indeed, thanks to the glories of the communication revolution, one can enjoy these spectacle anywhere and at any time.

602 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:40:27pm

re: #378 Guanxi88

Wait a minute - I thought you were leaving this place? Now you take offense? Which is it : Fuck this place, or glad I'm free to disrespect it, as those are two very different sentiments.

Are they mutually exclusive?

603 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:40:36pm

re: #590 Cato the Elder

A culture that finds movies like "The Human Centipede" to be just another form of entertainment has passed into a realm in which I do not care to live.

You do realize you're now forcing us to look that up so we can form a proper frame of reference?

604 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:40:47pm

re: #594 Decatur Deb

What's your position on Lions v. Christians?

The missionary one.

605 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:40:57pm

re: #594 Decatur Deb

What's your position on Lions v. Christians?

Depends; what odds is Vegas giving?

606 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:41:08pm

re: #603 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don't. Its not worth it.

607 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:41:11pm

re: #590 Cato the Elder

A culture that finds movies like "The Human Centipede" to be just another form of entertainment has passed into a realm in which I do not care to live.

Had to google that.

608 ShaunP  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:42:00pm

re: #601 Guanxi88

Who says bear-baiting and public executions are gone? Indeed, thanks to the glories of the communication revolution, one can enjoy these spectacle anywhere and at any time.

There's an app for that...

///

609 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:42:48pm

re: #593 Guanxi88


What are you talking about? Of course that belief has been around forever. That's one of the most common anti-semitic allegations. Someone could have held the opinion that worldwide Jewry was engineering his downfall in ways invisible to those around him without getting committed, and with an excellent chance of being elected in some areas.

It's just a basic 'people are out to get me' conspiracy theory, adapted to modern technology. There's nothing new about it.

610 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:42:51pm

re: #557 allegro

A thoughtful person who has a mind open to being educated might respond to arguments outlining these parallels and understand the points you are trying to make. But these are not the people populating the tea party and those sympathetic to that propaganda to whom these appeals are being directed. The only word heard is NAZIS! Then the response "no, YOU are the Nazi! ad infinitum. It is not effective approach, IMO.

I have no idea what you are talking about, and neither do you. The discussion here is about drawing conclusions and applying inapplicable labels based on an ambiguous and incomplete set of data. Furthermore, it is a discussion among anti-idiotarians, not tea party members and sympathizers.

611 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:43:16pm

In fact I think this thread has helped me to articulate my most important point.

You will not convert a teabagger with reason. You can only make certain that they run out of steam and get distracted. This is accomplished by making it hard to impress people by being a teabagger.

The only message to point at them is:

You are nazi scum and if you fight, you will not be able to bully us or cow us.

When you lie, we will call you liars. When you cheat we will catch you. When you are stupid we will mock you.

But most importantly, we will not tolerate your racism or your evil anti American ways.

In fact, if you do try to start some revolution, we will kick your asses.

It is important to make certain they get that we are not scared. Bullies only like easy targets. Bullies that do not have easy targets go back to being frustrated betas.

612 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:43:37pm

re: #606 McSpiff

Don't. Its not worth it.

What has been seen...cannot be unseen.

613 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:43:39pm

re: #601 Guanxi88

Okay. Back when it was perfectly acceptable to take your wife and kids to a bear-baiting, when it was actually part of culture, not a skulking thing that people did in their basements with sweaty palms.

614 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:43:48pm

re: #607 Varek Raith

Had to google that.

I'm sorry.

615 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:44:24pm

re: #611 LudwigVanQuixote

In fact I think this thread has helped me to articulate my most important point.

You will not convert a teabagger with reason. You can only make certain that they run out of steam and get distracted. This is accomplished by making it hard to impress people by being a teabagger.

The only message to point at them is:

You are nazi scum and if you fight, you will not be able to bully us or cow us.

When you lie, we will call you liars. When you cheat we will catch you. When you are stupid we will mock you.

But most importantly, we will not tolerate your racism or your evil anti American ways.

In fact, if you do try to start some revolution, we will kick your asses.

It is important to make certain they get that we are not scared. Bullies only like easy targets. Bullies that do not have easy targets go back to being frustrated betas.

Simple question... if a person is a member of a local/regional/nation Tea Party chapter, are they a Nazi?

616 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:44:41pm

re: #614 Cato the Elder

I'm sorry.

My reaction to that "thing", WTF?!
Crazy.

617 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:45:11pm

re: #611 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm sorry, but this isn't true. Bullies do not just like easy targets. Some bullies-- and the most dangerous kinds-- disrespect themselves, and their own lives, and their own happiness, and think nothing of sacrificing it on their way to hurt others.

618 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:45:14pm

re: #609 Obdicut

No, read it again. It's not a variation on the Protocols or the jesuits or the freemasons. It is a very different type of thing. Altogether different.

619 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:45:16pm

re: #590 Cato the Elder

A culture that finds movies like "The Human Centipede" to be just another form of entertainment has passed into a realm in which I do not care to live.

Leda and the Swan: good.

The Human Centipede: ugh. squishy.

620 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:45:28pm

re: #573 Nimed

:)
Glad someone was having fun.

i completely agree with you on that, btw. And you're certainly right that this means if anything a rightward tilt to the court.
feh.

621 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:46:16pm

re: #598 allegro

And as soon as you say that, and in those exact terms, you have shut down the avenue of communicating with the very people to whom you wish to convince. Therefore, it is a ineffective argument, regardless of how accurate it may be.

No you are missing the point. I am not trying to convince the teabaggers. I am trying to remind the non-teabaggers of which there are many that nazis are bad and only bad things come from them.

The teabaggers are nazi scum. They use nazi memes and nazi tactics to promote nazi goals. All of these things are easily backed up by direct comparison with history and nazi propaganda. The average person does not know the history in that depth. However, the average person gets that being a nazi is a bad thing. It is our job to point out the same old shit in the new mod repackaging.

622 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:47:00pm

re: #615 Walter L. Newton

Simple question... if a person is a member of a local/regional/nation Tea Party chapter, are they a Nazi?

I think most are not in the parade, but many are rapturously waving flags along the route.

623 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:47:10pm

re: #615 Walter L. Newton

Simple question... if a person is a member of a local/regional/nation Tea Party chapter, are they a Nazi?

Nazi scum, actually

624 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:47:49pm

re: #616 Varek Raith

My reaction to that "thing", WTF?!
Crazy.

And this wasn't a Sci Fi Channel original movie?

625 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:47:59pm

re: #618 Guanxi88

No, read it again. It's not a variation on the Protocols or the jesuits or the freemasons. It is a very different type of thing. Altogether different.

I have read it again. I do not find it significantly different than any other conspiratorial belief. Insisting over and over it's somehow different doesn't actually engender any differences.

People have always been able to propagandize themselves. That they now have a wider choice of what to self-propagandize themselves with is hardly a significant change, and, perversely, ignores the obvious: that they must encounter significantly more challenges to their worldview than in the past.

626 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:48:04pm

Well, thanks to Cato, I'm now closer to pushing the Shiny Red Button of DOOM on my super laser.
/

627 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:48:22pm

re: #615 Walter L. Newton

Simple question... if a person is a member of a local/regional/nation Tea Party chapter, are they a Nazi?

In as much as they believe in a movement that would replace MAerican values with Nazi values, they are.

Simple question, was every German who went to a Nazi rally a full blown believing nazi?

Probably not.

Do such distinctions really make a difference to the point at hand?

Certainly not.

628 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:48:45pm

re: #613 Obdicut

Okay. Back when it was perfectly acceptable to take your wife and kids to a bear-baiting, when it was actually part of culture, not a skulking thing that people did in their basements with sweaty palms.

Still is, in a number of places, along with dog-fighting, and other blood sports. It;s not gone at all, and it's only disapproved of or forbidden in some places; however, those who delight in seeing one beast tear apart another may choose from any number of such "sports" today, and without violating any local law.

629 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:49:15pm

re: #607 Varek Raith

Had to google that.

...wish I hadn't.

Immature boys were making up trashy stories like this in order to gross each other out since the dawn of time. Only in 2010 you can raise capital, a production crew and get syndication over the web to gross out a wider audience.

630 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:49:24pm

re: #611 LudwigVanQuixote
' nazi scum '?
I always knew you were a really tolerant type, but now I find you're on a veritable crusade against the gratuitous use of wildly inappropriate slurs as well./

631 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:49:28pm

re: #598 allegro

And as soon as you say that, and in those exact terms, you have shut down the avenue of communicating with the very people to whom you wish to convince. Therefore, it is a ineffective argument, regardless of how accurate it may be.

One does not "convince" Nazis. One neutralizes them.

632 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:49:38pm

re: #626 Varek Raith

Well, thanks to Cato, I'm now closer to pushing the Shiny Red Button of DOOM on my super laser.
/

Yup, prepping the virus bombs and the orbital lance strike as we speak.

Some people should not be allowed near film equipment. Ever.

633 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:49:47pm

re: #623 cliffster

Nazi scum, actually

Evil, racist, homophobic, theocratic, anti-constitional, fascist, misogynist, ignorant, anti American destroyers of all that is good about this nation, nazi scum to be precise.

634 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:49:50pm

re: #593 Guanxi88

Gang stalking is a nice place to begin. It is clearly a web-based epiphenomenon of paranoid schizophrenia. If, 50 years ago, a person were to ask "Say, do you think there's a possibility that I am being targeted by a group of total strangers, all of whom communicate in secret, for the sole purpose of harassing me in ways that are not visible to those around me?" that same person would certainly be thought insane. Today, however, he or she can find an entire community of similarly delusional folk, all of whom provide independent confirmation of the experience, and exchange theories as to its origin and purpose.

Oh my god-- I found a forum of those people years ago. It's the saddest thing-- they're feeding and fostering each other's delusions. One of the characteristics of schizophrenic delusions is that they're florid-- that is, if an interviewer asks them a question about their peculiar belief for which they don't have an answer, they'll still respond immediately and fluently, as if they are inventing and elaborating their delusion on the spot. (in contrast to some other forms of mental illness that also involve delusional belief).

This was completely in evidence in the forum-- the posters, by asking each other questions, were in effect helping each other to incorporate other delusions or elaborate new ones.

635 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:50:56pm

re: #587 Aceofwhat?

yeah, but you have to admit, we were pretty kind to you - i know i felt bad that you were crying out for company on that topic and getting no love in return.

i know i'm contractually obliged not to feel sympathetic for dyed-in-the-wool libruls, but what can i say...i'm a bad republican.

:) Thanks. You were indeed very kind.

636 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:50:58pm

re: #634 iceweasel

That's really very sad.

637 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:51:07pm

re: #628 Guanxi88

Still is, in a number of places, along with dog-fighting, and other blood sports. It;s not gone at all, and it's only disapproved of or forbidden in some places; however, those who delight in seeing one beast tear apart another may choose from any number of such "sports" today, and without violating any local law.

And when an esteemed figure admits that he participates in such things, he is vilified and castigated for it, and sent to jail for it.

This is pretty simple: In the old days, it was considered perfectly normal to take the wife and kids to watch blood sports. These days, in the US, it is far, far out of the mainstream to do so. In that one, easy example, modern society is less depraved-- if you think that dogfighting is depraved, which I do.

638 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:51:09pm

re: #631 Cato the Elder

One does not "convince" Nazis. One neutralizes them.

In the sense that if one thinks of citizens as cells in the national body, one provides an inoculation of truth to prevent the infection from spreading to healthy cells, yes.

639 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:51:21pm

re: #625 Obdicut


People have always been able to propagandize themselves. That they now have a wider choice of what to self-propagandize themselves with is hardly a significant change, and, perversely, ignores the obvious: that they must encounter significantly more challenges to their worldview than in the past.

Then perhaps you can explain the hardening and radicalization of opinion and world-view we witness of late among heavy users of the communications technologies? Just because you bother to seek out alternate opinions and points of view does not mean that this is a generalized pattern of behavior; I'd suggest - cringe though I do at saying it - that you are perhaps more reasonable in your approach to the world than most other people are.

640 allegro  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:52:40pm

re: #631 Cato the Elder

One does not "convince" Nazis. One neutralizes them.

My understanding of LVQ's point is that he is trying to convince those who are not tea party members, that teabaggers are nazis.

641 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:52:41pm

re: #593 Guanxi88

Gang stalking is a nice place to begin. It is clearly a web-based epiphenomenon of paranoid schizophrenia. If, 50 years ago, a person were to ask "Say, do you think there's a possibility that I am being targeted by a group of total strangers, all of whom communicate in secret, for the sole purpose of harassing me in ways that are not visible to those around me?" that same person would certainly be thought insane. Today, however, he or she can find an entire community of similarly delusional folk, all of whom provide independent confirmation of the experience, and exchange theories as to its origin and purpose.

I believe that community is called 4-Chan.

642 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:52:42pm

re: #627 LudwigVanQuixote

In as much as they believe in a movement that would replace MAerican values with Nazi values, they are.

Simple question, was every German who went to a Nazi rally a full blown believing nazi?

Probably not.

Do such distinctions really make a difference to the point at hand?

Certainly not.

I'm not even arguing with you, I just wanted you to distill it down to a simple concept, idea, answer. I think you answer to Cliffster is totally clear on what you believe...

Evil, racist, homophobic, theocratic, anti-constitional, fascist, misogynist, ignorant, anti American destroyers of all that is good about this nation, nazi scum to be precise.

I think that is clear enough.

643 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:52:57pm

re: #630 tradewind

' nazi scum '?
I always knew you were a really tolerant type, but now I find you're on a veritable crusade against the gratuitous use of wildly inappropriate slurs as well./

Yes, they use the same tactics and the same memes to whip up the same class of people in order achieve similar ends.

I am not exaggerating. It is not a Godwin. Look at the history if you doubt me.

644 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:53:00pm

re: #574 Cato the Elder

Hmm. I thought I saw something to that effect yesterday. From someone else, who called you "she".

Ha! Offended, i am not. But i'm a dude, through and through. 33yo, 6', 160lbs, Leo, MBA, German/English heritage, tennis enthusiast, gin over vodka...am i missing anything?

645 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:53:02pm

re: #633 LudwigVanQuixote

Evil, racist, homophobic, theocratic, anti-constitional, fascist, misogynist, ignorant, anti American destroyers of all that is good about this nation, nazi scum to be precise.

I honestly, from the bottom of my heart, hope that the democrats use this GOP = Tea Party = Nazi theme in the elections this fall.

646 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:53:55pm

re: #636 Floral Giraffe

That's really very sad.

It was terrible. It was posted somewhere like Fark (people were making fun of them)-- it really upset me. Those poor people. Guanx is right that this is something that couldn't have happened without the internet. (or possibly, it could in a mental asylum if you isolated all the schizophrenics together in a room and didn't treat them.)
How are you, Floral?

647 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:54:02pm

re: #634 iceweasel

Oh my god-- I found a forum of those people years ago. It's the saddest thing-- they're feeding and fostering each other's delusions. One of the characteristics of schizophrenic delusions is that they're florid-- that is, if an interviewer asks them a question about their peculiar belief for which they don't have an answer, they'll still respond immediately and fluently, as if they are inventing and elaborating their delusion on the spot. (in contrast to some other forms of mental illness that also involve delusional belief).

This was completely in evidence in the forum-- the posters, by asking each other questions, were in effect helping each other to incorporate other delusions or elaborate new ones.

It's like a white dwarf, with the material packing itself in tighter and tighter to radiate.

648 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:54:30pm

re: #640 allegro
Ya think?/

649 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:54:39pm

re: #639 Guanxi88

Then perhaps you can explain the hardening and radicalization of opinion and world-view we witness of late among heavy users of the communications technologies?

Can you back up this claim at all?

Just because you bother to seek out alternate opinions and points of view does not mean that this is a generalized pattern of behavior; I'd suggest - cringe though I do at saying it - that you are perhaps more reasonable in your approach to the world than most other people are.

Which has nothing to do with the point I'm making, at all. It has nothing to do with seeking them out. People encounter more views if they use the net in a normal fashion. If you Google 'international Jewish conspiracy' the very first hit you get is a satire of people who believe in an international Jewish Conspiracy.

In the modern day, you have do a hell of a lot work to make yourself insular and surround yourself only with those saying what you believe. In the old days, it was very unlikely to even encounter an idea that ran contrary to the generally accepted beliefs.

650 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:54:52pm

re: #641 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I believe that community is called 4-Chan.

Hey!
:P

651 ShaunP  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:55:07pm

re: #644 Aceofwhat?

Ha! Offended, i am not. But i'm a dude, through and through. 33yo, 6', 160lbs, Leo, MBA, German/English heritage, tennis enthusiast, gin over vodka...am i missing anything?

Upding for your gin preference. Nothing is finer than a well made gin and tonic. Screw grey goose...

652 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:55:44pm

re: #637 Obdicut

And when an esteemed figure admits that he participates in such things, he is vilified and castigated for it, and sent to jail for it.

This is pretty simple: In the old days, it was considered perfectly normal to take the wife and kids to watch blood sports. These days, in the US, it is far, far out of the mainstream to do so. In that one, easy example, modern society is less depraved-- if you think that dogfighting is depraved, which I do.

Football is a blood sport.

And in many countries, bullfighting is considered perfectly acceptable family entertainment.

Dogfighting is widespread in this country and some people were quite happy to defend Vick's involvement.

The notion that culture has somehow "improved" since the "Enlightenment" is a sad fantasy.

653 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:55:55pm

re: #645 cliffster

I honestly, from the bottom of my heart, hope that the democrats use this GOP = Tea Party = Nazi theme in the elections this fall.

They won't. They'll just say "They're Nuts!" which is also true and does not give the same offense as the Nazi meme can (even if its true).

654 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:56:05pm

re: #645 cliffster
They won't have to.... there will be plenty of willing sycophants to do it for them.
But I get your drift, and, yeah. Bring it. What have they got to lose... besides the House, which is looking more likely every day....

655 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:56:30pm

re: #640 allegro

My understanding of LVQ's point is that he is trying to convince those who are not tea party members, that teabaggers are nazis.

Yes and the teabaggers really are nazi scum. People should be aware of how Nazism spread. People should get what its political tactics were and how it happened. It is the same pattern here.

Now I repeat, I don't think that they can take over wthout an economic collapse. Perhaps that is what Rush really meant hoped Obama failed with the bailout. However, many of the other pieces of the actual rise to power of the actual nazis are in play right now.

Hell, the folks who penned the AZ law are actually pretty open about being nazis.

656 Digital Display  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:56:39pm

re: #644 Aceofwhat?

Ha! Offended, i am not. But i'm a dude, through and through. 33yo, 6', 160lbs, Leo, MBA, German/English heritage, tennis enthusiast, gin over vodka...am i missing anything?


I used to love you
But it's all over now
*wink*

657 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:56:39pm

I'm depraved on account of I'm deprived.

658 allegro  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:56:49pm

re: #653 Dark_Falcon

They won't. They'll just say "They're Nuts!" which is also true and does not give the same offense as the Nazi meme can (even if its true).

Exactly.

659 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:57:10pm

re: #651 ShaunP

Upding for your gin preference. Nothing is finer than a well made gin and tonic. Screw grey goose...

Bah, Gin tastes like ground up Christmas tree -- bulbs and all. Give me a nice spiced rum or scotch any day.

660 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:57:36pm

re: #650 Varek Raith

Hey!
:P

Oh quiet. You know I'm right.

661 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:57:46pm

re: #651 ShaunP

Upding for your gin preference. Nothing is finer than a well made gin and tonic. Screw grey goose...

I've seen grey goose and screwing go together on more than one occasion, but I've never seen anyone actually screw grey goose.

662 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:57:51pm

re: #660 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh quiet. You know I'm right.

Yes.

663 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:57:57pm

BBL

664 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:58:04pm

re: #659 McSpiff

Bah, Gin tastes like ground up Christmas tree -- bulbs and all. Give me a nice spiced rum or scotch any day.

well, Lah-dee-dah, Mr. Rockefeller!

My tipple, of late, has been Thunderbird, a much under-appreciated domestic "white port" as I think I shall call it.

665 The Left  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:59:00pm

re: #664 Guanxi88

well, Lah-dee-dah, Mr. Rockefeller!

My tipple, of late, has been Thunderbird, a much under-appreciated domestic "white port" as I think I shall call it.

Sez our resident bootlegger. :)

666 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:59:01pm

re: #652 Cato the Elder

The notion that culture has somehow "improved" since the "Enlightenment" is a sad fantasy.

As a pretty much liberated female, I must disagree.

667 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:59:01pm

re: #653 Dark_Falcon

They won't. They'll just say "They're Nuts!" which is also true and does not give the same offense as the Nazi meme can (even if its true).

If they were smart, they would. GOP = Tea Party = Nazi theme is starting to resonate with a lot of people, and it would make a very snappy bumper sticker or campaign slogan.

668 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:59:08pm

re: #664 Guanxi88

My folks just brought me back an excellent Havana Club Amber from their travels. Along with several cans of Tu Kola for mixing. Commie goodness at its finest.

669 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 1:59:31pm

re: #645 cliffster

I honestly, from the bottom of my heart, hope that the democrats use this GOP = Tea Party = Nazi theme in the elections this fall.

And why is that - because you hope that the Dmes lose and the GOP which now is beholden to these creeps wins?

If that is the case, you are more of an asshole than I ever expected. Nice to see you put politics before America. Loyal as a typical Republican I see.

I truly hope we get this message out loud well before the election and make every American realize what we are dealing with so that these assholes are shouted down wherever they show up, and the majority of them fade from the movement.

670 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:00:06pm

re: #665 iceweasel

Sez our resident bootlegger. :)

Got me in a whole buncha bootleg 'baccy, which I'm processing in secret when the wife goes off to church and such. Fingers crossed, it'll be something like smokeable in a few months' time.

671 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:00:32pm

re: #620 iceweasel

i completely agree with you on that, btw. And you're certainly right that this means if anything a rightward tilt to the court.
feh.

too early to say, i think. Stevens was supposed to be a right-leaning justice, wasn't he?

i believe that we won't really know her until she starts to opine.

but i'm with webvintage...outrage from both extremes seems like a promising sign...

672 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:00:44pm

re: #652 Cato the Elder

So, in a society where Vick is castigated and sent to jail for engaging into dogfight = highly depraved.

A society where women and children would have gone to see the dogfights and then talked about it over tea = less depraved.

I really don't get how that works in your head.

The Enlightenment was the birthplace of the idea of individual rights, individual liberty, and with it came a respect for ourselves as moral agents, the responsibility of ethics attendant on us, not on rule-following. With that came ethical questioning of many casually cruel things that used to be standard, and their amelioration.

It's always weird when you pick up the anti-Enlightenment clubs, Cato. Do you notice the company you're in when you do so?

673 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:01:29pm

re: #631 Cato the Elder

One does not "convince" Nazis. One neutralizes them.

Is there in your opinion a non-violent method to neutralize these teavolk who have apparently been charged, tried, convicted and publicly labeled as the Nazi scum in America?

674 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:02:10pm

re: #669 LudwigVanQuixote

And why is that - because you hope that the Dmes lose and the GOP which now is beholden to these creeps wins?

If that is the case, you are more of an asshole than I ever expected. Nice to see you put politics before America. Loyal as a typical Republican I see.

I truly hope we get this message out loud well before the election and make every American realize what we are dealing with so that these assholes are shouted down wherever they show up, and the majority of them fade from the movement.

You're a real sweetheart.

675 Digital Display  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:03:00pm

Madness takes it's toll
Please have exact change
/Hi Lizards

676 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:03:01pm

re: #674 cliffster

You're a real sweetheart.

And you would rather see America in the hands of fools like this. What does that make you?

677 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:03:03pm

re: #672 Obdicut

So, in a society where Vick is castigated and sent to jail for engaging into dogfight = highly depraved.

A society where women and children would have gone to see the dogfights and then talked about it over tea = less depraved.

I really don't get how that works in your head.

The Enlightenment was the birthplace of the idea of individual rights, individual liberty, and with it came a respect for ourselves as moral agents, the responsibility of ethics attendant on us, not on rule-following. With that came ethical questioning of many casually cruel things that used to be standard, and their amelioration.

It's always weird when you pick up the anti-Enlightenment clubs, Cato. Do you notice the company you're in when you do so?

Who said I was anti-Enlightenment? I just think we should discard the capital "E" and put the word in quotes, because it was not all that.

And some of the things that it has allowed to crawl out of the depths of the depraved human soul are worse than the evils it suppressed.

678 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:03:47pm

re: #673 Spare O'Lake

Is there in your opinion a non-violent method to neutralize these teavolk who have apparently been charged, tried, convicted and publicly labeled as the Nazi scum in America?

Thorazine in their tea water.

679 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:03:51pm

re: #676 LudwigVanQuixote

And you would rather see America in the hands of fools like this. What does that make you?

Makes Cliffster a nazi... right?
///

680 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:04:02pm

Upon seeing a sentence constructed like this:

"All of those ______'s are just a bunch of ______'s"

I tend to GAZE

681 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:04:04pm

re: #672 Obdicut

Reservations about the Enlightenment do not negate the concepts of rights or any of the rest of it. And celebration of the purported "triumph" of the Enlightenment in the West bears more than a passing resemblance to the vulgar worship of success.

682 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:04:37pm

re: #576 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm sorry, Ludwig, but I'm finding a lot to object to in your posts today. Calling people names like "sheep" and "nazi scum" and "teabagger" isn't going "inoculate the masses". It's more likely going to cause people to tune you out. You've gotten so worked up, you almost sound like one of them.

683 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:05:15pm

re: #680 DaddyG

Upon seeing a sentence constructed like this:

"All of those ___'s are just a bunch of ___'s"

I tend to GAZE

Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

684 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:05:16pm

re: #676 LudwigVanQuixote

And you would rather see America in the hands of fools like this. What does that make you?

You just called me as asshole because I want Republicans to win. Think about that.

685 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:05:16pm

re: #677 Cato the Elder

Who said I was anti-Enlightenment? I just think we should discard the capital "E" and put the word in quotes, because it was not all that.

And some of the things that it has allowed to crawl out of the depths of the depraved human soul are worse than the evils it suppressed.

What effect would removing the capital have, exactly?

Can you name something terrible that was done post-Enlightenment that wasn't done before it?

686 albusteve  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:05:25pm

re: #680 DaddyG

Upon seeing a sentence constructed like this:

"All of those ___'s are just a bunch of ___'s"

I tend to GAZE

but then you miss all the redundant, rhetorical, hysterical blather....c'mon, stay tuned

687 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:06:02pm

re: #683 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

No...
Yes...
Maybe?
Dammit!

688 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:06:03pm

re: #646 iceweasel

Outstanding!
Bopping in & out, doing some outdoor projects!
*waves*

689 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:06:11pm

Question: Is flame war really necessary again today? Sigma x deserved it, but all the people here now are good and loyal lizards.

690 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:06:18pm

re: #679 Walter L. Newton

Makes Cliffster a nazi... right?
///

NO I didn't say that. It makes him blinded by partisanship to the point of stupidity.

691 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:06:22pm

re: #655 LudwigVanQuixote
Here's one of your AZ nazis. ( Curiously, he appears to have shaved his 'stache).
[Link: phoenix.bizjournals.com...]
But reading the story, he seems to have been the victim of brown shirts.
Whose actions here were more reminiscent of the Third Reich?

692 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:06:30pm

re: #671 Aceofwhat?

too early to say, i think. Stevens was supposed to be a right-leaning justice, wasn't he?

Noooo, nononono.

Stevens was considered the most liberal justice in the Court.
[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

You should read my yesterday's rants. Profound wisdom to be found there, as always.

693 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:06:46pm

re: #685 Obdicut

What effect would removing the capital have, exactly?

Can you name something terrible that was done post-Enlightenment that wasn't done before it?

The mass marketing of mass murder as mass entertainment.

694 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:07:03pm

re: #651 ShaunP

Upding for your gin preference. Nothing is finer than a well made gin and tonic. Screw grey goose...

exactly. a spirit distilled for the purposes of removing all taste? speaks for itself!

695 albusteve  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:07:04pm

re: #689 Dark_Falcon

Question: Is flame war really necessary again today? Sigma x deserved it, but all the people here now are good and loyal lizards.

there are Nazi Lizards among us...watch out

696 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:07:08pm

re: #664 Guanxi88
Any port in a storm?/

697 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:07:33pm

re: #690 LudwigVanQuixote

NO I didn't say that. It makes him blinded by partisanship to the point of stupidity.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood the intent of your comment.. being blinded to the point of being stupid is better... right! :)
//

698 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:07:53pm

re: #685 Obdicut

Can you name something terrible that was done post-Enlightenment that wasn't done before it?

Bell Bottoms.

699 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:08:13pm

re: #698 DaddyG

Bell Bottoms.

DISCO

700 prairiefire  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:08:17pm

re: #644 Aceofwhat?

Ha! Offended, i am not. But i'm a dude, through and through. 33yo, 6', 160lbs, Leo, MBA, German/English heritage, tennis enthusiast, gin over vodka...am i missing anything?

You love your fine shoes.

701 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:08:57pm

re: #681 Guanxi88

And celebration of the purported "triumph" of the Enlightenment in the West bears more than a passing resemblance to the vulgar worship of success.

Oh, what a load of dirty underpants. What meaning there is in that sentence is devoutly idiotic.

The Enlightenment was a triumph. It was a wonderful, electrifying moment when human progress leaped forwards, where the ideas of self-governance and ethical responsibility really took root, and when science became something that was able to hold onto its discoveries and put them into a framework accessible even to amateurs. It was a triumph. The only things that have suffered enormously from the Enlightenment are religious institutions that have failed to learn the lessons of the Enlightenment.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with 'worship of success'. That's asinine.

702 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:09:00pm

re: #700 prairiefire

You love your fine shoes.

And he likes his fancy clothes.

703 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:09:08pm

re: #691 tradewind

Here's one of your AZ nazis. ( Curiously, he appears to have shaved his 'stache).
[Link: phoenix.bizjournals.com...]
But reading the story, he seems to have been the victim of brown shirts.
Whose actions here were more reminiscent of the Third Reich?

To be fair:

“I said, ‘No, I’m not going to do that,’” said Clark. Republic, based in Phoenix, deals in precious metals and offers investments in gold and silver.

he does sound like a Paulian....

704 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:09:26pm

re: #686 albusteve

but then you miss all the redundant, rhetorical, hysterical blather...c'mon, stay tuned

Oh. O.K.
I was never good at flouncing anyway.

705 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:09:41pm

re: #506 ryannon

There's a good chance gold will be @ $1500 an ounce by this time next year.

Then again there's an even better chance that China and/or Europe will start emptying their vaults and dumping their supplies on the open market to help pay down their debt and it'll drop back down to under $1000 quicker than you can say Rosslyn Capital. (The fear is is that they might also do the same with U.S. Treasuries.)

The problem with gold is that every single ounce that was ever mined on this planet is still here among us, unlike oil, which is a ever-diminishing commodity.

706 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:09:57pm

re: #693 Cato the Elder

The mass marketing of mass murder as mass entertainment.

That's been around forever. Hell, it's in the Bible.

707 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:10:36pm

re: #675 HoosierHoops
Change has been exacted.
Still waiting on hope./

708 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:11:44pm

re: #701 Obdicut

Oh, what a load of dirty underpants. What meaning there is in that sentence is devoutly idiotic.

The Enlightenment was a triumph. It was a wonderful, electrifying moment when human progress leaped forwards, where the ideas of self-governance and ethical responsibility really took root, and when science became something that was able to hold onto its discoveries and put them into a framework accessible even to amateurs. It was a triumph. The only things that have suffered enormously from the Enlightenment are religious institutions that have failed to learn the lessons of the Enlightenment.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with 'worship of success'. That's asinine.

All you need do is establish the Feast of the Goddess Reason, reform the calendar, and you could be Robespierre's secretary. I'd say you were pretty devout in your worship of the enlightenment.

Thank goodness for it, by the way! There was certainly no independent thought before it, no self-governance, no science, nothing but darkness all around until a group of coffehouse intellectuals proclaimed the dawn of reason in the west.

Vulgar worship of success, as I said.

709 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:12:02pm

re: #706 Obdicut

That's been around forever. Hell, it's in the Bible.

The goats had it comin'.

710 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:12:23pm

re: #691 tradewind

Here's one of your AZ nazis. ( Curiously, he appears to have shaved his 'stache).
[Link: phoenix.bizjournals.com...]
But reading the story, he seems to have been the victim of brown shirts.
Whose actions here were more reminiscent of the Third Reich?

That sort of attitude.. of trying to stifle any conversation about something, actually deserves a comparison to the gestapo. And it's happening all around the country with regards to this issue.

711 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:12:57pm

re: #691 tradewind

Here's one of your AZ nazis. ( Curiously, he appears to have shaved his 'stache).
[Link: phoenix.bizjournals.com...]
But reading the story, he seems to have been the victim of brown shirts.
Whose actions here were more reminiscent of the Third Reich?

You see it's bullshit like this that cause my blood to boil. Your fat republican douche who wore that shirt is not some oppressed Jew in Nazi Germany and there is no comparison. YOu see that shit is a Godwin.

How about we look at the history and connections of FAIR.

You remember them, the folks who penned the law?

The ones who are into eugenics and keeping America white?

The ones who are all about "white culture" and "white heritage" who think that Cinqo de Mayo is something that no American can celebrate?

The ones that Stormfront loves?

The ones who write direct quotes from Hitler's Nuremberg rally speech in 29?

Those guys?

But no, acknowledging that truth would get int eh way of your partisan denial of what is in front of your nose. Your willful blindness is only surpassed by your silly attempt to make this about some false the "left did it too" meme. Idiot, the people who are opposed to this are not all leftwing. They are pissed at seeing themselves discriminated against.

712 Digital Display  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:14:23pm

re: #709 DaddyG

The goats had it comin'.

For Whom does the Gaza rooster crow for?

713 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:14:46pm

re: #643 LudwigVanQuixote
I'm just afraid that when you have to confront actual evil, Ludwig, you will have shot your entire wad of invective and will have to resort to calling them ' meanie pooh-pooh heads'.

714 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:15:01pm

re: #705 Sigma_x

Let redirect this flaming: There's Sigma, get him!

715 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:15:05pm
716 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:15:10pm

re: #691 tradewind

Here's one of your AZ nazis. ( Curiously, he appears to have shaved his 'stache).
[Link: phoenix.bizjournals.com...]
But reading the story, he seems to have been the victim of brown shirts.
Whose actions here were more reminiscent of the Third Reich?

Letting them watch the game is equivalent to being 'brown shirts'?

The law is stupid.

717 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:15:24pm

re: #708 Guanxi88

All you need do is establish the Feast of the Goddess Reason, reform the calendar, and you could be Robespierre's secretary. I'd say you were pretty devout in your worship of the enlightenment.

Thank goodness for it, by the way! There was certainly no independent thought before it, no self-governance, no science, nothing but darkness all around until a group of coffehouse intellectuals proclaimed the dawn of reason in the west.

Vulgar worship of success, as I said.

The Reign of Terror was the legitimate offspring of the Enlightenment.

718 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:15:40pm

re: #710 cliffster
Believe me... been reminded more than once that I have no power to stifle conversation here. If you do,.....wow!

719 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:15:42pm

re: #713 tradewind

I'm just afraid that when you have to confront actual evil, Ludwig, you will have shot your entire wad of invective and will have to resort to calling them ' meanie pooh-pooh heads'.

We are confronting actual evil. That is the point.

720 ShaunP  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:16:07pm

re: #685 Obdicut

What effect would removing the capital have, exactly?

Can you name something terrible that was done post-Enlightenment that wasn't done before it?

2 girls, 1 cup

721 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:16:37pm

re: #716 b_sharp
They were allowed to return to their seats only after the team owners got wind of the actions of the guards, and stopped it.
The guards were acting in a most heavy handed manner.

722 ShaunP  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:16:52pm

re: #720 ShaunP

2 girls, 1 cup

DISCLAIMER: If you don't know what that is, don't go looking for it. NSFW or kids or your soul or your dinner plans...

723 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:17:03pm

re: #714 Dark_Falcon

Let redirect this flaming: There's Sigma, get him!

Hehe, you made me belly laugh. Thanks.

724 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:17:48pm

re: #720 ShaunP

2 girls, 1 cup

You forgot 2 wenches 1 goblet.

725 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:17:52pm

re: #719 LudwigVanQuixote
Sigh.
Boy, Wolf.

726 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:17:55pm

re: #722 ShaunP

DISCLAIMER: If you don't know what that is, don't go looking for it. NSFW or kids or your soul or your dinner plans...

OMG that is brilliant! Here is my new meme.

Teabaggers, the 2 girls 1 cup of politics!

727 charlz  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:18:11pm

re: #590 Cato the Elder

A culture that finds movies like "The Human Centipede" to be just another form of entertainment has passed into a realm in which I do not care to live.

I don't think "The Human Centipede" will be the ABC Saturday Night Movie anytime soon.

728 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:18:24pm

re: #717 Cato the Elder

The Reign of Terror was the legitimate offspring of the Enlightenment.

Hell, it was a requirement of it. You can't cut loose from tradition and not have to use the threat of death to get things done. As Burke pointed out, every prospect leads tot he gallows.

729 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:18:40pm

re: #725 tradewind

Sigh.
Boy, Wolf.

Sigh, red ridinghood's granny.

Sometimes the wolves are real.

730 Bob Levin  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:18:42pm

re: #719 LudwigVanQuixote

Ludwig, this is completely off the subject, but I'd like to talk to you about another topic altogether. How can we make this happen?

731 albusteve  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:18:46pm

re: #716 b_sharp

Letting them watch the game is equivalent to being 'brown shirts'?

The law is stupid.

it's my understanding that the AZ law simply empowers state LE to enforce federal law and in fact mimics federal law right down the line....the stupidity is having immigration laws on the books that are ignored....imo

732 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:19:19pm

re: #728 Guanxi88

Hell, it was a requirement of it. You can't cut loose from tradition and not have to use the threat of death to get things done. As Burke pointed out, every prospect leads tot he gallows.

I am very impressed at a thread that quotes Burke.

733 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:19:21pm

re: #720 ShaunP

SMACK! THUMP! [crunch]

734 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:19:27pm

re: #720 ShaunP

2 girls, 1 cup

When Ron Jeremy says you've gone too far, you've gone too far.

735 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:19:35pm

re: #718 tradewind

Believe me... been reminded more than once that I have no power to stifle conversation here. If you do,...wow!

Threats of boycotting anyone and anything in Arizona, this sort of thing like the story you posted.. it's scary.

736 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:19:37pm

I've said it before, I'm sayin it again.

No one on this planet is a Nazi. As in, a member of the Nationalist Socialist German Worker's Party. That organization was destroyed by the Occupying Allied Powers.

We do have Neo-Nazis. These guys claim linage to the existing Nazi party. Usually with no basis in reality. No one really cares about these guys.

We do have fascist groups that advocate similar policies to the Nazis, usually with some difference. Some embrace the moniker Fascist and some don't. Usually these guys are easy enough to avoid, and get very little play in the media or mainstream discourse.

Now, what we do have are a bunch of separate groups that contain some ideas that overlap with the Fascists. Racism and Nationalism jump to mind. Some aspects of economic policy depending on the group (distrust of free trade come to mind here). These groups are not fascist.

However, depending on largely the economic situation in America, and parts of Western Europe, these groups may begin to form alliances. As they merge, along with organizational merging and manpower merging, you will also begin to see ideological merging. Economic protectionists may find common ground with anti-immigration groups, who may see the appeal of white supremacists. Only using those as an example.

If this occurs, depending on the exact some circumstances, you may see populist groups with an ideology matching the earlier discounted fascists. They will however, refute this label viciously. Since we're seeing these groups form largely in what could be considered a conservative substraight (although its extremely important to note that these groups are not conservative in the least) they will most likely attempt to wear the trappings of former movements with glorious histories. Much like the neo-Nazis attempt to establish ideological links to the old Nazi party.

So, what I see today is the disparate component parts of a modern fascist-like movement in many of the fringe right wing groups. I'm not sure I can link them all under the banner of Tea Party, but I certainly see fellow travelers amongst their leaders.

So, where does that leave us in terms of terminology? I'd argue that these groups could be viewed as precursors. On their own, relative harmless. But with a guiding hand, potentially extremely dangerous. So thats my desired label. "Precursor extremist groups"

737 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:20:14pm

re: #730 Bob Levin

Ludwig, this is completely off the subject, but I'd like to talk to you about another topic altogether. How can we make this happen?

You can ask me something about that topic? Or is this your way of saying you are tired of hearing the teabggers are nazi scumbags who deserve to be cast into a pit of nazi oblivion?

738 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:20:15pm

re: #726 LudwigVanQuixote
I'd go with that one. Gets rid of the ridiculous nazi comparison, and is obscure enough to confuse anyone who hasn't looked it up.
Good move.

739 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:20:15pm

re: #724 DaddyG

You forgot 2 wenches 1 goblet.

2 nymphs, 1 amphora

740 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:20:53pm

re: #735 cliffster
Courage, grasshopper.

741 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:20:57pm

re: #645 cliffster

I honestly, from the bottom of my heart, hope that the democrats use this GOP = Tea Party = Nazi theme in the elections this fall.

Not going to happen. Sadly, I suspect they will swing right to meet the trend.

Sorry.

742 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:21:25pm

re: #733 Dark_Falcon

SMACK! THUMP! [crunch]


Now. No resorting to violence or we'll have to send you to the Guillotine and place your head on a pike as an example.

743 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:21:48pm

re: #692 Nimed

Nooo, nononono.

Stevens was considered the most liberal justice in the Court.
[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

You should read my yesterday's rants. Profound wisdom to be found there, as always.

Sorry, perhaps i was unclear. I don't believe that at the time of his nomination, the republicans predicted that he'd turn out to be as liberal as he has.

that's all i meant.

744 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:21:49pm

re: #731 albusteve

it's my understanding that the AZ law simply empowers state LE to enforce federal law and in fact mimics federal law right down the line...the stupidity is having immigration laws on the books that are ignored...imo

That is correct. The lies that have been spread about the law are pretty crazy. And it's Democrats doing it. All partisan crap.

745 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:22:25pm

re: #736 McSpiff

I've said it before, I'm sayin it again.

No one on this planet is a Nazi. As in, a member of the Nationalist Socialist German Worker's Party. That organization was destroyed by the Occupying Allied Powers.

We do have Neo-Nazis. These guys claim linage to the existing Nazi party. Usually with no basis in reality. No one really cares about these guys.

We do have fascist groups that advocate similar policies to the Nazis, usually with some difference. Some embrace the moniker Fascist and some don't. Usually these guys are easy enough to avoid, and get very little play in the media or mainstream discourse.

Now, what we do have are a bunch of separate groups that contain some ideas that overlap with the Fascists. Racism and Nationalism jump to mind. Some aspects of economic policy depending on the group (distrust of free trade come to mind here). These groups are not fascist.

However, depending on largely the economic situation in America, and parts of Western Europe, these groups may begin to form alliances. As they merge, along with organizational merging and manpower merging, you will also begin to see ideological merging. Economic protectionists may find common ground with anti-immigration groups, who may see the appeal of white supremacists. Only using those as an example.

If this occurs, depending on the exact some circumstances, you may see populist groups with an ideology matching the earlier discounted fascists. They will however, refute this label viciously. Since we're seeing these groups form largely in what could be considered a conservative substraight (although its extremely important to note that these groups are not conservative in the least) they will most likely attempt to wear the trappings of former movements with glorious histories. Much like the neo-Nazis attempt to establish ideological links to the old Nazi party.

So, what I see today is the disparate component parts of a modern fascist-like movement in many of the fringe right wing groups. I'm not sure I can link them all under the banner of Tea Party, but I certainly see fellow travelers amongst their leaders.

So, where does that leave us in terms of terminology? I'd argue that these groups could be viewed as precursors. On their own, relative harmless. But with a guiding hand, potentially extremely dangerous. So thats my desired label. "Precursor extremist groups"

In other words, exactly like the Nazis were in the early twenties... Look at the history.

746 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:22:34pm

Oh well - a quick traffic warning:

I'll be heading south on I-35 here in about 20 minutes or so, so, get the hell off the highway, 'cause I;m not a good driver, and I'm jacked up on coffee, anti-enlightenment thinking, and a goodly dose of nicotine.

747 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:22:38pm

re: #736 McSpiff

Correct. Plenty to worry about, but not Nazis.

748 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:22:40pm

re: #724 DaddyG

You forgot 2 wenches 1 goblet.

Hey now.....

749 Bob Levin  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:22:55pm

re: #737 LudwigVanQuixote

lol. Not exactly. I don't want to detract from the thread, that's all. But we've verged onto some pretty esoteric points in the past. And this is esoteric off the charts.

750 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:23:05pm

re: #708 Guanxi88

All you need do is establish the Feast of the Goddess Reason, reform the calendar, and you could be Robespierre's secretary. I'd say you were pretty devout in your worship of the enlightenment.

Thank goodness for it, by the way! There was certainly no independent thought before it, no self-governance, no science, nothing but darkness all around until a group of coffehouse intellectuals proclaimed the dawn of reason in the west.

Vulgar worship of success, as I said.

I don't really get how obtuseness functions as an argument for you.

Robespierre's secretary (there were two of them that I know of) were incredibly evil men who were secret police in addition to being secretaries, turning many people in for crimes against the revolution. Are you sure you actually want to make that horrific a charge against me?

Why on earth do you view my saying that the Enlightenment was a great triumph as supporting the French Revolution? How does that equate?

And yes, science before the Enlightenment was a painful, limping process. There were great discoveries, amazing ones-- and many of them were lost, because there was no framework for science, because science was often seen as a parochial affair, or worse, a secret society.

Even amongst the earliest scientists we can see a yearning for an open society and the values and systems that the Enlightenment could bring for science. And the Enlightenment came about because of the work of those scientists, natural philosophers, and others who had labored over the years to bring us to that point. If you are going to celebrate their achievements-- the Enlightenment was the greatest of them.

Calling me fit to be Robespierre's secretary is foolishly insulting hyperbole. Why do you feel that it's okay to say something like that?

751 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:23:53pm

re: #737 LudwigVanQuixote
You're playing a drinking game with some kids and every time they hear the word nazi, they do a shot!

752 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:24:11pm

re: #742 DaddyG

Now. No resorting to violence or we'll have to send you to the Guillotine and place your head on a pike as an example.

PFFTTT, you call that an "example"?
Drop a neutronium-core asteroid on the planet.

753 albusteve  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:24:11pm

re: #744 cliffster

That is correct. The lies that have been spread about the law are pretty crazy. And it's Democrats doing it. All partisan crap.

sorta blows away the whole Nazi's in AZ meme....it's laughable, but makes you wonder who the bad guys are

754 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:25:10pm

re: #744 cliffster

That is correct. The lies that have been spread about the law are pretty crazy. And it's Democrats doing it. All partisan crap.

It doesn't simply empower them. That is incorrect. It mandates that they do so.

755 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:25:27pm

re: #721 tradewind

They were allowed to return to their seats only after the team owners got wind of the actions of the guards, and stopped it.
The guards were acting in a most heavy handed manner.

They allowed the two to return to their seats after discussing it with their boss, the director of security. You know, the head brown shirt?

Read for comprehension.

756 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:25:27pm

re: #748 wrenchwench

Hey now...

Oops... That was you behind the curtain at the Renaissance faire??!

757 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:25:43pm

re: #700 prairiefire

You love your fine shoes.

oh, it's so true. I love my Cole Haans, and my new pair of Adidas are everything i hoped they'd be;)

758 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:26:27pm

re: #749 Bob Levin

Sounds interesting! We're over 700, so OT isn't out of line!

759 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:26:50pm

re: #738 tradewind

I'd go with that one. Gets rid of the ridiculous nazi comparison, and is obscure enough to confuse anyone who hasn't looked it up.
Good move.

The comparison is not ridiculous. If you really think it is, you do not know or are not remembering your history.

Let's remunerate it:

This point can not be over stated.When I talk about Nazism, I am not talking about American Nazis goose-stepping down our streets. We are not there yet. I am talking about the trends and memes that spread through Germany in the Twenties and thirties that led to Nazism.

Let me point out a few of them.

They griped a lot about a mythic past that never existed as an example of a shining birthright that was stolen from the average German.

They used a message that a corrupt and weak government was loyal to foreigners before Germany.

They argued that the real Germans couldn't make it in Germany anymore because of those traitors within. Those traitors were at first, immigrants, homosexuals, intellectuals, union members and of course Jews. In America, the message is not pointed at Jews yet.

They saw communists everywhere. They spread fear that communists secretly controlled the government and would take over and destroy all German liberties.

They flirted with notions of pay back and violence and the meme that the oppressed, natural master would take back his "rightful place."

They pitched all manner of outrageous conspiracy theories. Those communists and leftists and intellectuals and elites were violent and out to get them.

It all played upon the racial fears of Germans who felt they had no control over their lives. But after working that fear into a lather, they represented a "voice of resistance." The individual German could now be seduced into thinking he too would be a Hero of his people and save his culture.

It was backed by well funded industrialists who spread a disproportionate voice to the movement through the media.

This message is pure evil.

760 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:26:52pm

re: #745 LudwigVanQuixote

In other words, exactly like the Nazis were in the early twenties... Look at the history.

The problem, Ludwig, is that the word "Nazi" has very specific connotations that make it a lightning rod and a poor choice of words, however true it is. As a result, I recommend the use of McSpiff's terminology.

761 albusteve  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:26:57pm

re: #754 Obdicut

It doesn't simply empower them. That is incorrect. It mandates that they do so.

yes, enforce the law...what a novel concept

762 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:27:00pm

re: #750 Obdicut

Well, it's because I'm a nazi, on some readings. Chiefly, it's your blind enthusiasm for the Enlightenment and its many great achievements than makes your tone and attitude largely indistinguishable from that of the most partisan functionaries of the terror, which was itself the inevitable and necessary result of the enlightenment. So, if you think it makes you evil, so be it; I'm not one to toss the label about like hundred dollar bills in a rap video.

763 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:27:06pm

re: #749 Bob Levin

lol. Not exactly. I don't want to detract from the thread, that's all. But we've verged onto some pretty esoteric points in the past. And this is esoteric off the charts.

Shoot!

764 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:27:12pm

re: #752 Varek Raith

PFFTTT, you call that an "example"?
Drop a neutronium-core asteroid on the planet.

Sorry, but you brought this on yoursef;

Rocks are NOT “free”, citizen.

Firstly, you must manoeuvre the Emperor’s naval vessel within reach of the asteroid belt, almost assuredly sustaining damage to the Emperor’s ship’s paint from micrometeoroids, while expending the Emperor’s fuel.

Then the tech priests must inspect the rock in question to ascertain its worthyness to do the Emperor’s bidding. Should it pass muster, the Emperor’s Servitors must use the Emperor’s auto-scrappers and melta-cutters to prepare the potential ordinance for movement. Finally, the tech priests finished, the Emperor’s officers may begin manoeuvring the Emperor’s warship to abut the asteroid at the prepared face (expending yet more of the Emperor’s fuel), and then begin boosting the stone towards the offensive planet.

After a few days of expending a prodigious amount of the Emperor’s fuel to accelerate the asteroid into an orbit more fitting to the emperor’s desires, the Emperor’s ship may then return to the planet via superluminous warp travel and await the arrival of the stone, still weeks (or months) away.

After twiddling away the Emperor’s time and eating the Emperor’s food in the wasteful pursuit of making sure that the Emperor’s enemies do not launch a deflection mission, they may finally watch the ordinance impact on the planet (assuming the Emperor’s warship does not need to attempt any last-minute course correction upon the rock, using yet more of the Emperor’s fuel).

Given a typical (class Bravo-CVII) system, we have the following:
Two months, O&M, Titan class warship: 4.2 Million Imperials.
Two months, rations, crew of same: 0.2 MI
Two months, Tech Priest pastor: 1.7 MI
Two months, Servitor parish: 0.3 MI
Paint, Titan class warship: 0.9 MI
Dihydrogen peroxide fuel: 0.9 MI
Total: 9.8 MI

Contrasting with the following:
5 warheads, magna-melta: 2.5 MI
One day, O&M, Titan class warship: 0.3 MI
One day, rations, crew of same: 0.0 MI
Dihydrogen peroxide fuel: 0.1 MI
Total: 2.9 MI

Given the same amount with under one third of the cost, the Emperor will have saved a massive amount of His most sacred money and almost a full month of time, during which His warship may be bombarding an entirely different planet.

The Emperor, through this – His office of Imperial outlays – hereby orders you to attend one (1) week of therapeutic accountancy training/penance. Please report to Areicon IV, Imperial City, Administatum Building CXXI, Room 1456, where you are to sit in the BLUE chair.

For the Emperor,
Bursarius Tenathis,
Purser Level XI,
Imperial Office of Outlays.

765 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:27:16pm

re: #744 cliffster
MSNBC today reported that a majority of Democrats polled think that the AZ law should be allowed to take effect to see how it works before passing judgement.
Not a majority of Republicans, tea-partiers, or any other similar un-American, nazi-esque cabels, but a majority of Democrats.
So that oughta say something.

766 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:27:24pm

re: #731 albusteve

it's my understanding that the AZ law simply empowers state LE to enforce federal law and in fact mimics federal law right down the line...the stupidity is having immigration laws on the books that are ignored...imo

Any law that promotes irrational profiling is stupid.

767 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:27:33pm

re: #750 Obdicut

Calling me fit to be Robespierre's secretary is foolishly insulting hyperbole. Why do you feel that it's okay to say something like that?

It is very funny, that's why.

768 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:27:36pm

re: #736 McSpiff

I've said it before, I'm sayin it again.

No one on this planet is a Nazi. As in, a member of the Nationalist Socialist German Worker's Party. That organization was destroyed by the Occupying Allied Powers.

We do have Neo-Nazis. These guys claim linage to the existing Nazi party. Usually with no basis in reality. No one really cares about these guys.

We do have fascist groups that advocate similar policies to the Nazis, usually with some difference. Some embrace the moniker Fascist and some don't. Usually these guys are easy enough to avoid, and get very little play in the media or mainstream discourse.

Now, what we do have are a bunch of separate groups that contain some ideas that overlap with the Fascists. Racism and Nationalism jump to mind. Some aspects of economic policy depending on the group (distrust of free trade come to mind here). These groups are not fascist.

However, depending on largely the economic situation in America, and parts of Western Europe, these groups may begin to form alliances. As they merge, along with organizational merging and manpower merging, you will also begin to see ideological merging. Economic protectionists may find common ground with anti-immigration groups, who may see the appeal of white supremacists. Only using those as an example.

If this occurs, depending on the exact some circumstances, you may see populist groups with an ideology matching the earlier discounted fascists. They will however, refute this label viciously. Since we're seeing these groups form largely in what could be considered a conservative substraight (although its extremely important to note that these groups are not conservative in the least) they will most likely attempt to wear the trappings of former movements with glorious histories. Much like the neo-Nazis attempt to establish ideological links to the old Nazi party.

So, what I see today is the disparate component parts of a modern fascist-like movement in many of the fringe right wing groups. I'm not sure I can link them all under the banner of Tea Party, but I certainly see fellow travelers amongst their leaders.

So, where does that leave us in terms of terminology? I'd argue that these groups could be viewed as precursors. On their own, relative harmless. But with a guiding hand, potentially extremely dangerous. So thats my desired label. "Precursor extremist groups"

Great post. Favorited.

769 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:27:54pm

re: #754 Obdicut

It doesn't simply empower them. That is incorrect. It mandates that they do so.

The crap that came out was that it gave police the ability (nay - the mandate) to stop people in the street and ask for proof of legality. Hence the "let me see your papers" stuff. It's just not true. That's not what the law does.

770 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:28:10pm

re: #760 Dark_Falcon

The problem, Ludwig, is that the word "Nazi" has very specific connotations that make it a lightning rod and a poor choice of words, however true it is. As a result, I recommend the use of McSpiff's terminology.

And as a Jew who knows history, and lost family to the nazis, I will keep honest when I see the same shit starting up again. It gives me little pleasure to use the word accurately.

771 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:28:34pm

re: #745 LudwigVanQuixote

Not really. Nazis without Hitler maybe. Which is not what anyone thinks about when you use the term Nazi. I more mean German Worker's Party and the Freikorps. Nazi implies a level of overall control, hierarchy and totality of ideology which I certainly do not mean.

772 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:28:41pm

re: #749 Bob Levin

lol. Not exactly. I don't want to detract from the thread, that's all. But we've verged onto some pretty esoteric points in the past. And this is esoteric off the charts.

Detract from this thread?! The point of the thread was never really addressed in the first place - which is that the GOP has gone completely off the rails. When it's a state like, say, Arizona that pulls something like this, no one's too surprised. When it's fucking Maine, of all places, you know that the entire party has been completely hijacked by the lunatic-fringe and that there's no turning back for them.

I just find it curious that there's no one on this board willing to try and defend their once-great party against this scurrilous charge against it.

773 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:28:48pm

re: #755 b_sharp
Whatever. Heavy handed guards tried to ride roughshod over ticket holders because they didn't like their politics.
Glad it didn't stand.

774 Spare O'Lake  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:29:09pm

ACHTUNG!
bbl

775 Bob Levin  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:29:23pm

re: #758 Floral Giraffe

We've gotten into some very arcane aspects of Judaism, and this is arcane squared. It might be interesting, but I just think it's too arcane.

776 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:29:33pm

re: #764 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Asteroids do not concern me, Admiral"

777 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:29:55pm

re: #772 Sigma_x
Maybe they're waiting until after the Republicans take back the House to talk to them about it./

778 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:30:12pm

re: #736 McSpiff

well done, there-

779 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:30:14pm

re: #717 Cato the Elder

The Reign of Terror was the legitimate offspring of the Enlightenment.

So was the United States of America. Are we going on the theory that if one kid becomes a mass murderer, you fail as a parent?

780 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:30:32pm

re: #774 Spare O'Lake
Bless you!
Oh wait..... thought you sneezed.

781 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:30:32pm

re: #765 tradewind

MSNBC today reported that a majority of Democrats polled think that the AZ law should be allowed to take effect to see how it works before passing judgement.
Not a majority of Republicans, tea-partiers, or any other similar un-American, nazi-esque cabels, but a majority of Democrats.
So that oughta say something.


A majority of Democrats are NA...wwwww I just can't do it. Not even with a sarc tag.

782 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:30:47pm

re: #771 McSpiff

Not really. Nazis without Hitler maybe. Which is not what anyone thinks about when you use the term Nazi. I more mean German Worker's Party and the Freikorps. Nazi implies a level of overall control, hierarchy and totality of ideology which I certainly do not mean.

As I have written before, the Teabaggers and the GOP are still looking for their torchbearer. I have said over and over these are Nazis before they found Hitler. That is why I keep pointing out early Nazis.

The right charismatic evil monster who fires them all up at the same time will do the job.

783 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:30:52pm

re: #772 Sigma_x

Can't find anyone stupider than you to rob, cheat, or steal from this afternoon?

Poor you.

784 ArchangelMichael  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:31:05pm

re: #760 Dark_Falcon

The problem, Ludwig, is that the word "Nazi" has very specific connotations that make it a lightning rod and a poor choice of words, however true it is. As a result, I recommend the use of McSpiff's terminology.

That and when you call your partisan political opponents in America "Nazis" or "evil", rational people generally (and more often than not correctly) think you are engaged in over the top histrionics and will tune you out. Don't cry wolf... there can be serious consequences in doing so.

785 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:31:17pm

re: #524 publicityStunted


There's a demotivational poster for that...

Date is off by 100 years.

786 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:31:20pm

re: #764 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sorry, but you brought this on yoursef;

Rocks are NOT “free”, citizen.

Firstly, you must manoeuvre the Emperor’s naval vessel within reach of the asteroid belt, almost assuredly sustaining damage to the Emperor’s ship’s paint from micrometeoroids, while expending the Emperor’s fuel.

Then the tech priests must inspect the rock in question to ascertain its worthyness to do the Emperor’s bidding. Should it pass muster, the Emperor’s Servitors must use the Emperor’s auto-scrappers and melta-cutters to prepare the potential ordinance for movement. Finally, the tech priests finished, the Emperor’s officers may begin manoeuvring the Emperor’s warship to abut the asteroid at the prepared face (expending yet more of the Emperor’s fuel), and then begin boosting the stone towards the offensive planet.

After a few days of expending a prodigious amount of the Emperor’s fuel to accelerate the asteroid into an orbit more fitting to the emperor’s desires, the Emperor’s ship may then return to the planet via superluminous warp travel and await the arrival of the stone, still weeks (or months) away.

After twiddling away the Emperor’s time and eating the Emperor’s food in the wasteful pursuit of making sure that the Emperor’s enemies do not launch a deflection mission, they may finally watch the ordinance impact on the planet (assuming the Emperor’s warship does not need to attempt any last-minute course correction upon the rock, using yet more of the Emperor’s fuel).

Given a typical (class Bravo-CVII) system, we have the following:
Two months, O&M, Titan class warship: 4.2 Million Imperials.
Two months, rations, crew of same: 0.2 MI
Two months, Tech Priest pastor: 1.7 MI
Two months, Servitor parish: 0.3 MI
Paint, Titan class warship: 0.9 MI
Dihydrogen peroxide fuel: 0.9 MI
Total: 9.8 MI

Contrasting with the following:
5 warheads, magna-melta: 2.5 MI
One day, O&M, Titan class warship: 0.3 MI
One day, rations, crew of same: 0.0 MI
Dihydrogen peroxide fuel: 0.1 MI
Total: 2.9 MI

Given the same amount with under one third of the cost, the Emperor will have saved a massive amount of His most sacred money and almost a full month of time, during which His warship may be bombarding an entirely different planet.

The Emperor, through this – His office of Imperial outlays – hereby orders you to attend one (1) week of therapeutic accountancy training/penance. Please report to Areicon IV, Imperial City, Administatum Building CXXI, Room 1456, where you are to sit in the BLUE chair.

For the Emperor,
Bursarius Tenathis,
Purser Level XI,
Imperial Office of Outlays.

Very good 40K riff.

787 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:32:01pm

re: #779 SanFranciscoZionist

So was the United States of America. Are we going on the theory that if one kid becomes a mass murderer, you fail as a parent?

Well, yes, actually.

788 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:32:24pm

re: #777 tradewind

Maybe they're waiting until after the Republicans take back the House to talk to them about it./

Would you really want the GOP, as it now stands, to re-take the house? That'd be like me saying, after the uber-left, code-pink element of the democratic party somehow took control of the party, that I was glad they won. I wouldn't be. I'd be mortified.

789 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:32:32pm

re: #773 tradewind

Whatever. Heavy handed guards tried to ride roughshod over ticket holders because they didn't like their politics.
Glad it didn't stand.

So, you're admitting your characterization of them as brown shirts was wrong?

790 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:32:50pm

re: #786 Dark_Falcon

Very good 40K riff.

Indeed. My #776 was the best I could muster against that monstrosity of logic.
:D

791 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:33:12pm

re: #786 Dark_Falcon

Very good 40K riff.

One of the classics.

792 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:33:29pm

re: #788 Sigma_x

Would you really want the GOP, as it now stands, to re-take the house? That'd be like me saying, after the uber-left, code-pink element of the democratic party somehow took control of the party, that I was glad they won. I wouldn't be. I'd be mortified.

Heh, you really buy they hype don't you?

793 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:33:42pm

re: #772 Sigma_x

Detract from this thread?! The point of the thread was never really addressed in the first place - which is that the GOP has gone completely off the rails. When it's a state like, say, Arizona that pulls something like this, no one's too surprised. When it's fucking Maine, of all places, you know that the entire party has been completely hijacked by the lunatic-fringe and that there's no turning back for them.

I just find it curious that there's no one on this board willing to try and defend their once-great party against this scurrilous charge against it.

I can't defend against the charge because it is true. In adopting the Tea Party-drafted platform, the Republican Party of Maine has indeed gone completely off the rails. I hate the fact, but it is a fact.

794 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:34:01pm

re: #768 Dark_Falcon

Great post. Favorited.

My favorite comment today was from Mandy Manners, who wrote that twitting yourself makes you blind.

795 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:34:18pm

re: #782 LudwigVanQuixote

That is why I keep pointing out early Nazis.

As soon as the GOP reduces the debt and gets AMTRACK running on time we'll talk about the comparison. /

796 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:34:28pm

re: #762 Guanxi88

Well, it's because I'm a nazi, on some readings. Chiefly, it's your blind enthusiasm for the Enlightenment and its many great achievements than makes your tone and attitude largely indistinguishable from that of the most partisan functionaries of the terror, which was itself the inevitable and necessary result of the enlightenment. So, if you think it makes you evil, so be it; I'm not one to toss the label about like hundred dollar bills in a rap video.

I have never called you a Nazi, so I have no clue why you're putting that in there. Are you trying to have a conversation with someone who's not me?

There is nothing blind in my appreciation of the Enlightenment. It didn't solve all problems. It didn't solve any problems. It gave us a starting point, for science, for government based on consent of the governed, for the equality of man. That's a great thing. It was an intellectual triumph for mankind. Which is all I've said.

You're not even embarrassed you said I'd make a good secretary for Robespierre. I don't even believe in the death penalty, and you think I'd be a good secretary for a man who sent person after person to the guillotine.

And your best explanation for why you did so is that people call you a Nazi and I'm really enthusiastic about the Enlightenment. That's a shitty reason to say that someone would enthusiastically help a mass murderer and tyrant.

797 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:34:30pm

re: #759 LudwigVanQuixote

This point can not be over stated.

I humbly submit that you have proven that statement wrong on more than one occasion today...

798 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:34:49pm

re: #728 Guanxi88

Hell, it was a requirement of it. You can't cut loose from tradition and not have to use the threat of death to get things done. As Burke pointed out, every prospect leads tot he gallows.

Much as with the Russian Revolution however, we like to ignore the horror that came before it, which was just called 'tradition'.

799 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:35:04pm

Well, this has been fun (not) but I have to head home. I'll join up with you later.

800 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:35:14pm

re: #790 Varek Raith

Indeed. My #776 was the best I could muster against that monstrosity of logic.
:D

Yeah, but your reply was Star Wars. And you didn't even use Force Choke. ;)

801 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:35:30pm

re: #784 ArchangelMichael

That and when you call your partisan political opponents in America "Nazis" or "evil", rational people generally (and more often than not correctly) think you are engaged in over the top histrionics and will tune you out. Don't cry wolf... there can be serious consequences in doing so.

Guys, it is interesting to hear this.

For you and all the educated and thinkg lizards, I point to the history and stand by my claims. They really are using the same memes and tactics as the early nazis and appealing to the same base through the same psychology. The results are starting to bear fruit.

I agree that not all things overlap, the imagery is differently flavored and the actual Nazis were differently flavored in their cultural metaphors, but the message is the same. Exactly the same.

There is a class of human being that fals for this and gets swept up in it. It spreads like a cancer through a culture and right now, America has a tumor. If the economy collapses, and they find that charismatic leader, then the tumor will metastasize

802 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:35:37pm

re: #759 LudwigVanQuixote
But Ludwig... and this is all I will say on the subject.... you didn't mention one huge thing: nazis exterminated millions of people. In horrible, excruciating ways. Tried to wipe out an entire human section. That is what people think of when they hear the word ' nazi'. And you just cannot equate that horror with any political party in America today.

803 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:36:06pm

re: #797 Aceofwhat?

I humbly submit that you have proven that statement wrong on more than one occasion today...

How have I proved the point wrong at all?

804 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:36:23pm

OT

If you are anywhere in West Texas and want to witness a miracle, get to central Lubbock as soon as possible. No, it's not an apparition of the Virgin or a crashed UFO, it is something even less likely: The intersection at 34th street and Quaker Avenue is FULLY OPEN TO TRAFFIC, not an orange traffic cone or barrel in sight.
This is the first time since 2003 that this intersection has been fully open during the height of the business day. I don't know if the Cone-heads of the street department and the Texas Department of Transportation just overlooked it, or if they have finally run out of make work projects to keep it closed but you can see it with your own eyes.
I had suggested at one point that the city should just plow up the intersection and plant grass on it since it was their obvious purpose to keep it partially closed forever.
Btw, the 34th st intersection is the south anchor of the notorious Quaker red-light barrage. From there north, this five lane (allegedly main) thoroughfare is choked by no fewer than SIX red lights in a distance of just 3800 feet.

805 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:36:27pm

re: #779 SanFranciscoZionist

So was the United States of America. Are we going on the theory that if one kid becomes a mass murderer, you fail as a parent?

SFZ, I'm on your and Obdicut's side on the enlightenment thing, but I must say that this wasn't the most helpful metaphor to your case.

806 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:37:16pm

re: #798 SanFranciscoZionist

Anastasia, the movie, pissed me the fuck off for that very reason.

807 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:37:42pm

re: #804 Shiplord Kirel Lubbock has paved roads?! /

808 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:37:51pm

re: #788 Sigma_x
Then get your mortified hat ready, because it is looking more and more likely. Not my idea, but analysts from both sides. Republicans seriously appear poised to win in Hawaii and PA, so no telling what else could happen.

809 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:38:01pm

re: #802 tradewind

But Ludwig... and this is all I will say on the subject... you didn't mention one huge thing: nazis exterminated millions of people. In horrible, excruciating ways. Tried to wipe out an entire human section. That is what people think of when they hear the word ' nazi'. And you just cannot equate that horror with any political party in America today.

Yet.

810 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:38:06pm

re: #753 albusteve

sorta blows away the whole Nazi's in AZ meme...it's laughable, but makes you wonder who the bad guys are

OK, I see we've dismissed all the arguments against the law in question raised and discussed here, and gone back to default.

811 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:38:55pm

re: #793 Dark_Falcon

I can't defend against the charge because it is true. In adopting the Tea Party-drafted platform, the Republican Party of Maine has indeed gone completely off the rails. I hate the fact, but it is a fact.

Sigma_x's argument...
Image: shot-down.jpg

812 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:39:02pm

re: #796 Obdicut

I have never called you a Nazi, so I have no clue why you're putting that in there. Are you trying to have a conversation with someone who's not me?

There is nothing blind in my appreciation of the Enlightenment. It didn't solve all problems. It didn't solve any problems. It gave us a starting point, for science, for government based on consent of the governed, for the equality of man. That's a great thing. It was an intellectual triumph for mankind. Which is all I've said.

You're not even embarrassed you said I'd make a good secretary for Robespierre. I don't even believe in the death penalty, and you think I'd be a good secretary for a man who sent person after person to the guillotine.

And your best explanation for why you did so is that people call you a Nazi and I'm really enthusiastic about the Enlightenment. That's a shitty reason to say that someone would enthusiastically help a mass murderer and tyrant.

On your reading, the Enlightenment has been a net positive. That being so, you've got to adopt the attitude that its worst excesses were justified on the basis of the results.

I suggest to you that atavistic human nature is what it is and always will be, and that to think otherwise is to set oneself up for disappointment or worse.

And, also, your sense of humor is sadly defective this afternoon; in calling you Robespierre's secretary, I was suggesting that you weren't quite as fanatical as he, but certainly on the same page; as that antique Roman Cato observed, it's funny to characterize you, not as the author of the Terror, but rather as its recorder and scribe.

813 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:39:14pm

re: #802 tradewind

But Ludwig... and this is all I will say on the subject... you didn't mention one huge thing: nazis exterminated millions of people. In horrible, excruciating ways. Tried to wipe out an entire human section. That is what people think of when they hear the word ' nazi'. And you just cannot equate that horror with any political party in America today.

If the economy takes a nosedive, and the teabag meme becomes the dominant meme in this nation, do you really think they won't round up political opponents (who are now terrorists of course), suspected socialists, gays, or brown people?

I have said many times we are not there yet. I don't want it to get there. I understand that when people think of the Nazis, they think of the full blown horror. What they don't think of enough is the process through which that full blown horror took root and gained the capacity to be a horror. We are in the early stages of that now with this movement.

814 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:39:26pm

re: #810 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, I see we've dismissed all the arguments against the law in question raised and discussed here, and gone back to default.

No, there are plenty of good arguments against the bill. The ones that are based on false information are not, however, good arguments.

815 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:39:32pm

re: #798 SanFranciscoZionist

Much as with the Russian Revolution however, we like to ignore the horror that came before it, which was just called 'tradition'.

True, but compared to the Bolsheviks the Czar's men were pikers. The Reds killed more people in 3 years (outside of combat) than the Okra had killed in the preceding 20 years.

816 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:39:55pm

re: #798 SanFranciscoZionist

Much as with the Russian Revolution however, we like to ignore the horror that came before it, which was just called 'tradition'.


At least the suffering and poverty was kept to the peasant classes where it belonged. /

817 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:40:20pm

re: #798 SanFranciscoZionist

Much as with the Russian Revolution however, we like to ignore the horror that came before it, which was just called 'tradition'.

Russia has always been the idiot stepchild of the West, sad to say. From one czar to another; from the Romanovs to the KOMINTERN, no real difference, save in scale and ambition.

818 _remembertonyc  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:40:29pm

Palestinian female athletes training and competing under hamas rule ...

[Link: www.boston.com...]

I'd laugh if I didn't feel so sad for women living under islamist oppression
:(

819 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:41:04pm

re: #811 Varek Raith

Sigma_x's argument...
Image: shot-down.jpg

Falcon to Varek, Dark Falcon to Raith. Scratch one Zeke. Returning to patrol altitude.

820 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:41:21pm

I can only hope that the entire GOP adopts this platform and shows its true face to the rest of the world, not to mention all the moderates during the coming election. Nothing would mobilize the moderates, centrists, and liberals more than seeing the GOP holding these tenets up as their new platform.

821 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:41:22pm

re: #773 tradewind

Whatever. Heavy handed guards tried to ride roughshod over ticket holders because they didn't like their politics.
Glad it didn't stand.

Some security guys acted like assholes!! It's just the same as the Nazis!!

822 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:41:26pm

re: #809 Cato the Elder

Yet.

Minority Report reference in ...3...2...1

823 Guanxi88  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:42:15pm

And I'm off! Keep your eyes peeled for a Mercedes 300 series with a pissed-off guy behind the wheel, and give me wide berth.

824 Digital Display  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:42:24pm

re: #818 _remembertonyc

Palestinian female athletes training and competing under hamas rule ...

[Link: www.boston.com...]

I'd laugh if I didn't feel so sad for women living under islamist oppression
:(


some women raced barefoot? Where the heck is Nike?
/

825 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:42:26pm

re: #805 Nimed

Heh. It was a little jarring.

However, the point SFZ made is very valid. The United States is an outgrowth of the Enlightenment. So is women's suffrage, ending slavery, the belief that children are not simply property of their parents, etc. etc.

For anyone who's interested in learning more about the French Revolution, by the way, I highly recommend the book:

Citizens: A Chronicle of the French Revolution

It is a masterful summary of the economic, cultural, and political factor surrounding the French Revolution, and does a very sage job of pointing out how it ironically laid the framework for Emperor Bonaparte.

826 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:42:46pm

re: #798 SanFranciscoZionist

Much as with the Russian Revolution however, we like to ignore the horror that came before it, which was just called 'tradition'.

re: #806 Obdicut

Anastasia, the movie, pissed me the fuck off for that very reason.

I think it is safe to say that the Russian Revolution and what followed outdid "tradition" in all respects of barbarity, inhumanity, cruelty, delusion and violence.

Or are we talking about some alternate history or parallel universe?

827 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:42:54pm

re: #772 Sigma_x

Detract from this thread?! The point of the thread was never really addressed in the first place - which is that the GOP has gone completely off the rails. When it's a state like, say, Arizona that pulls something like this, no one's too surprised. When it's fucking Maine, of all places, you know that the entire party has been completely hijacked by the lunatic-fringe and that there's no turning back for them.

I just find it curious that there's no one on this board willing to try and defend their once-great party against this scurrilous charge against it.

No, the point of the thread is that my once-great party is melting. Scroll up and read it again.

I agree that it's melting. The Maine platform has nothing i wish to defend. Rather, i will stand for a much more palatable, reasonable set of positions and do what i can to reverse the meltdown.

At least quote the "point of the thread" correctly in between deep thoughts such as "gold could go way up, but it could also go way down".

You'll pardon me if i don't hustle over to twitter so that i can subscribe for similarly wise financial insights...you'd probably think i was there to erase your followers.

828 albusteve  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:43:09pm

re: #810 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, I see we've dismissed all the arguments against the law in question raised and discussed here, and gone back to default.

I have spoken....carry on

829 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:43:17pm

re: #787 Cato the Elder

Well, yes, actually.

So what went right with us?

830 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:43:56pm

re: #789 b_sharp

So, you're admitting your characterization of them as brown shirts was wrong?

Yeah, whatever. /.

831 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:44:01pm

re: #813 LudwigVanQuixote

do you really think they won't round up political opponents (who are now terrorists of course), suspected socialists, gays, or brown people?


No, I don't. And if you are implying that ' they ' would, and would proceed to march ' them ' a' la nazis to death camps, then you might want to put down the mouse and call a friend.

832 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:44:23pm

re: #827 Aceofwhat?

No, the point of the thread is that my once-great party is melting. Scroll up and read it again.

I agree that it's melting. The Maine platform has nothing i wish to defend. Rather, i will stand for a much more palatable, reasonable set of positions and do what i can to reverse the meltdown.

At least quote the "point of the thread" correctly in between deep thoughts such as "gold could go way up, but it could also go way down".

You'll pardon me if i don't hustle over to twitter so that i can subscribe for similarly wise financial insights...you'd probably think i was there to erase your followers.

Please don't go there, Ace. That just leads to flaming.

833 avanti  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:44:34pm

More on the attack on Elena Kagan from the "American Family Association"

"My main argument against adding a homosexual to the bench is simply this. That individual would have already made up his (generic use) mind on one of the central public policy issues of they day, whether homosexuals deserve special rights or just the equal rights the rest of us have.

Everyone is supposed to be equal under the law, but with a homosexual on the bench, gay activists would be more equal than others. They'd have a vote in the bag before oral arguments were ever presented. This is hardly sporting, and hardly fair if justice indeed is supposed to be blind.

The Supreme Court would become the leading activist organization for the advance of the homosexual agenda. Other jurists might find it difficult to vote their jurisprudential conscience on things like gay marriage, civil unions, ENDA, gays in the military, homosexual adoptions, etc. etc. for the very personal reason that they would not want to offend a colleague on the bench. Justice would be hopelessly compromised. The mere fact that the other justices would have to calculate such personal implications of their rulings is sufficient in and of itself to know it's a bad idea."


Which is why self-described "conservative lesbian" (note: there can be no such thing; homosexuality is not a conservative value) ."

read more.

834 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:44:38pm

re: #782 LudwigVanQuixote

As I have written before, the Teabaggers and the GOP are still looking for their torchbearer. I have said over and over these are Nazis before they found Hitler. That is why I keep pointing out early Nazis.

The right charismatic evil monster who fires them all up at the same time will do the job.

You say it, and I hear it. And a few others. But, thanks largely to his own efforts Hitler is synonymous with Nazi. The entire point is that

Pissed off unemployed people + Former soldiers + Hitler + Hierarchy = Nazis

Calling the first two groups, even when they're found in America, Nazi or Nazi like doesn't really make much sense. I agreed with you. As my Giant Rant (two of those today! I really need to work on be succinct..) pointed out, these groups are the powder. Give them a spark and they'll blow. But lets not call them an explosion yet.

835 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:44:54pm

re: #829 SanFranciscoZionist

So what went right with us?

For one thing, we didn't go crazy reading Voltaire and try to kill all the priests.

836 _remembertonyc  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:45:27pm

re: #824 HoosierHoops

some women raced barefoot? Where the heck is Nike?
/

the hamas track team couldn't afford Nikes because their budget was used for other supplies such as nails, backpacks, and C4.

837 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:45:45pm

re: #833 avanti

More on the attack on Elena Kagan from the "American Family Association"

"My main argument against adding a homosexual to the bench is simply this. That individual would have already made up his (generic use) mind on one of the central public policy issues of they day, whether homosexuals deserve special rights or just the equal rights the rest of us have.


If he were a robot, his head would've asploded.

838 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:45:50pm

re: #805 Nimed

SFZ, I'm on your and Obdicut's side on the enlightenment thing, but I must say that this wasn't the most helpful metaphor to your case.

I don't have a case, per se. Well, I have one, but it's long and my computer is slow.

839 DaddyG  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:46:48pm

re: #833 avanti

Everyone is supposed to be equal under the law, but with a homosexual on the bench, gay activists would be more equal than others.

One vagina good, two vaginas baaaaad. /

840 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:47:15pm

re: #803 LudwigVanQuixote

How have I proved the point wrong at all?

I humbly submit that you have overstated some things, in contrast with your statement that "it cannot be overstated".

That's all. As usual, when i disagree with you, it's chiefly a disagreement over your evangelistic methodology...

841 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:47:21pm

re: #834 McSpiff

You say it, and I hear it. And a few others. But, thanks largely to his own efforts Hitler is synonymous with Nazi. The entire point is that

Pissed off unemployed people + Former soldiers + Hitler + Hierarchy = Nazis

Calling the first two groups, even when they're found in America, Nazi or Nazi like doesn't really make much sense. I agreed with you. As my Giant Rant (two of those today! I really need to work on be succinct..) pointed out, these groups are the powder. Give them a spark and they'll blow. But lets not call them an explosion yet.

I'll meet you half way by abusing the metaphor a little more.

Powder has many parts.

We already have the saltpeter, charcoal and sulfur mixed. It has already bee primed in the pan. We are just awaiting the sparks.

842 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:47:24pm

re: #812 Guanxi88

On your reading, the Enlightenment has been a net positive. That being so, you've got to adopt the attitude that its worst excesses were justified on the basis of the results.

In so far as that phrase is logically cohesive, which it really isn't, sure. The Enlightenment was worth the French Revolution. It doesn't mean the French Revolution was an inevitable outgrowth of the Enlightenment. It wasn't, any more than the Spanish Inquisition was a logical outgrowth of Catholicism.


I suggest to you that atavistic human nature is what it is and always will be, and that to think otherwise is to set oneself up for disappointment or worse.

Again, this is not a point that I have ever argued against, so I'm not sure why you need to keep posting it.


And, also, your sense of humor is sadly defective this afternoon; in calling you Robespierre's secretary, I was suggesting that you weren't quite as fanatical as he, but certainly on the same page; as that antique Roman Cato observed, it's funny to characterize you, not as the author of the Terror, but rather as its recorder and scribe.

Why on earth do you find it funny to say that people you're having an intellectual disagreement with would have made a great assistant to evil murdering fuckheads? Can you detail the humor in that for me?

It's just a shitty thing to say to someone. Saying "haha I was joking when I said you'd be secretary to the guy who sent children to the guillotine-- get it?" doesn't really cut it. It's the lamest of excuses.

843 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:47:31pm

re: #833 avanti
SCOTUS picks should not be subject to scrutiny re their gender or sexual preference, religion or lack of it, etc.
But what bothers me about Kagan is that she's literally never sat on a bench, she would make the SC a total hall of Harvard, and she has not one word of opinion on which to suss out her ideas on the law.
Well, except for the part about kicking the ROTC people off campus at Harvard.

844 Kragar  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:48:01pm

re: #833 avanti

More on the attack on Elena Kagan from the "American Family Association"

"My main argument against adding a homosexual to the bench is simply this. That individual would have already made up his (generic use) mind on one of the central public policy issues of they day, whether homosexuals deserve special rights or just the equal rights the rest of us have.

Everyone is supposed to be equal under the law, but with a homosexual on the bench, gay activists would be more equal than others. They'd have a vote in the bag before oral arguments were ever presented. This is hardly sporting, and hardly fair if justice indeed is supposed to be blind.

The Supreme Court would become the leading activist organization for the advance of the homosexual agenda. Other jurists might find it difficult to vote their jurisprudential conscience on things like gay marriage, civil unions, ENDA, gays in the military, homosexual adoptions, etc. etc. for the very personal reason that they would not want to offend a colleague on the bench. Justice would be hopelessly compromised. The mere fact that the other justices would have to calculate such personal implications of their rulings is sufficient in and of itself to know it's a bad idea."


Which is why self-described "conservative lesbian" (note: there can be no such thing; homosexuality is not a conservative value) ."

read more.

The AFA must be a proctologists wet dream; the perfect group of assholes.

845 allegro  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:48:04pm

re: #833 avanti

...whether homosexuals deserve special rights or just the equal rights the rest of us have....

With no apparent sense of irony.

846 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:48:29pm

re: #815 Dark_Falcon

True, but compared to the Bolsheviks the Czar's men were pikers. The Reds killed more people in 3 years (outside of combat) than the Okra had killed in the preceding 20 years.

True, but it's not as though either pre-Revolutionary France or Russia was a nice place.

847 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:48:34pm

re: #831 tradewind

No, I don't. And if you are implying that ' they ' would, and would proceed to march ' them ' a' la nazis to death camps, then you might want to put down the mouse and call a friend.

There will be Tea Party influenced people voted into office this fall. Maybe a lot of them. Next April will come and no minorities, gays, etc will have been publicly beaten or hauled off to camps. The crazies will have to come up with new wacko stuff to go off on then. Can't wait to see what it is.

848 brookly red  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:49:08pm

re: #839 DaddyG

One vagina good, two vaginas baaad. /

/and ex of mine said that once, just before becoming an ex...

849 avanti  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:49:12pm

re: #837 Varek Raith

If he were a robot, his head would've asploded.

Using his argument, women will want more rights than men, men more than women and hetro's more than gays, Christians over Jews blacks over whites and on and on.

850 _remembertonyc  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:49:28pm

re: #841 LudwigVanQuixote

I'll meet you half way by abusing the metaphor a little more.

Powder has many parts.

We already have the saltpeter, charcoal and sulfur mixed. It has already bee primed in the pan. We are just awaiting the sparks.


The left called Bush and Cheney nazis too ... they weren't.

851 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:49:57pm

re: #705 Sigma_x

There's a good chance gold will be @ $1500 an ounce by this time next year.

Then again there's an even better chance that China and/or Europe will start emptying their vaults and dumping their supplies on the open market to help pay down their debt and it'll drop back down to under $1000 quicker than you can say Rosslyn Capital. (The fear is is that they might also do the same with U.S. Treasuries.)

The problem with gold is that every single ounce that was ever mined on this planet is still here among us, unlike oil, which is a ever-diminishing commodity.

When you thought Bagua had deleted your 500 Twitter followers last night (by the way, have you retracted that absurd statement yet?), what exactly was it you feared you had lost?

Does anyone actually pay for your semi-literate Jack-Handyesque market thoughts?

852 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:50:01pm

re: #835 Cato the Elder

For one thing, we didn't go crazy reading Voltaire and try to kill all the priests.

Or Diderot.

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.

Those were the days, you know...

853 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:50:37pm

re: #841 LudwigVanQuixote

I'll meet you half way by abusing the metaphor a little more.

Powder has many parts.

We already have the saltpeter, charcoal and sulfur mixed. It has already bee primed in the pan. We are just awaiting the sparks.

Actually, Ludwig, I'd argue we still don't have the sulfur. The far-right still has no charismatic leader to really rally around. Without that, even with a spark, their threat is much less.

854 webevintage  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:50:48pm

re: #833 avanti

Everyone is supposed to be equal under the law, but with a homosexual on the bench, gay activists would be more equal than others. They'd have a vote in the bag before oral arguments were ever presented. This is hardly sporting, and hardly fair if justice indeed is supposed to be blind.

Yesh.
What a load of crap...

I'm kind of confused why they think she is a lesbian.
Is it the short hair?
The fact that she is not married?

Do they think nuns are all lesbians too?

855 Digital Display  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:50:57pm

re: #836 _remembertonyc

the hamas track team couldn't afford Nikes because their budget was used for other supplies such as nails, backpacks, and C4.

At least..I think..The tennis shoes wouldn't have a bomb in them..I think..
Hey Tony..What do you think of Cushing winning the Rookie of the year for the NFL when he tested positive in Sept for PED's? Should AP revoke the award?

856 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:51:22pm

re: #826 Cato the Elder

No. The Russian Revolution did not outdo the Czars in terms of barbarity, inhumanity, cruelty, delusion, and violence. Serfdom was actually, it turns out, no damn fun at all.

857 darthstar  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:51:24pm

OT: Just got an email from a recruiter asking for a meeting, noting that she is aware that I'm VERY busy (yes, bolded and ALL CAPPED) and that my time would be time well spent!!!!!!!(seven exclamation marks, though LGF will truncate this to three)...seven !s in a row...I don't know...I find it hard to get excited over an email that uses less than nine consecutive exclamation marks.

858 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:51:43pm

re: #846 SanFranciscoZionist

True, but it's not as though either pre-Revolutionary France or Russia was a nice place.

Agreed.

859 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:51:55pm

re: #843 tradewind

SCOTUS picks should not be subject to scrutiny re their gender or sexual preference, religion or lack of it, etc.
But what bothers me about Kagan is that she's literally never sat on a bench, she would make the SC a total hall of Harvard, and she has not one word of opinion on which to suss out her ideas on the law.
Well, except for the part about kicking the ROTC people off campus at Harvard.

If she had advanced that idea because she is anti-military, I would think that was bad. But since her reason was the unfairness of "don't ask-don't tell", I think it was good (although she lost.)

860 avanti  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:52:10pm

re: #843 tradewind

SCOTUS picks should not be subject to scrutiny re their gender or sexual preference, religion or lack of it, etc.
But what bothers me about Kagan is that she's literally never sat on a bench, she would make the SC a total hall of Harvard, and she has not one word of opinion on which to suss out her ideas on the law.
Well, except for the part about kicking the ROTC people off campus at Harvard.

Wasn't the right asking for new justices that were not tainted by serving on lower courts. They asked for independent justices in the past did they not ?

861 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:52:30pm

re: #825 Obdicut

Heh. It was a little jarring.

However, the point SFZ made is very valid. The United States is an outgrowth of the Enlightenment. So is women's suffrage, ending slavery, the belief that children are not simply property of their parents, etc. etc.

For anyone who's interested in learning more about the French Revolution, by the way, I highly recommend the book:

Citizens: A Chronicle of the French Revolution

It is a masterful summary of the economic, cultural, and political factor surrounding the French Revolution, and does a very sage job of pointing out how it ironically laid the framework for Emperor Bonaparte.

Thanks, I will check it out. I don't think anyone truly believes that the Enlightenment wasn't immensely beneficial.

862 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:53:08pm

re: #858 Dark_Falcon

Agreed.

My favorite misconception about the French Revolution was that it was peasants revolting against the nobility, or the newly-engaged middle class revolting against the nobility.

If you haven't read the book I posted above, I highly, highly, highly recommend it.

863 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:53:35pm

re: #850 _remembertonyc

The left called Bush and Cheney nazis too ... they weren't.

They were part of the process that started this. They created a climate for it. I blame Fox most of all.

The racist and totalitarian memes we are seeing here should not be dismissed.

Read what the good teabaggers in Maine have the GOP posing as a platform again.

Does any of that sound like American values to you?

They do however fit in very well with Nazi values.

864 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:53:40pm

re: #832 Dark_Falcon

Please don't go there, Ace. That just leads to flaming.

ok.

865 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:53:45pm

re: #847 cliffster
Still licking their wounds after the epic FAILout from the ' lynched ' census worker .

866 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:54:23pm

re: #827 Aceofwhat?

No, the point of the thread is that my once-great party is melting. Scroll up and read it again.

I agree that it's melting. The Maine platform has nothing i wish to defend. Rather, i will stand for a much more palatable, reasonable set of positions and do what i can to reverse the meltdown.

At least quote the "point of the thread" correctly in between deep thoughts such as "gold could go way up, but it could also go way down".

You'll pardon me if i don't hustle over to twitter so that i can subscribe for similarly wise financial insights...you'd probably think i was there to erase your followers.

Well, if that's what you got out of my post about gold (and I was asked, by the way) then clearly your reading comprehension skills are somewhat suspect. That's what you took away from it, huh? "Gold could go up,... and then again it could go down?" I think I made it pretty clear where I think gold is going. Your jaw-droppingly superficial paraphrasing of my thoughts says more about your ability to understand various complex opinions (or lack thereof) that aren't simply a matter of yes/no black/white than it does about any insight I might have into the market.

If you have to twist my words around to try and make your point, than your point is probably bullshit to begin with.

867 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:54:46pm

re: #856 Obdicut

No. The Russian Revolution did not outdo the Czars in terms of barbarity, inhumanity, cruelty, delusion, and violence. Serfdom was actually, it turns out, no damn fun at all.

The serfs were freed long before the Revolution.

And yes, I'm afraid the Revolution and the sixty years that followed outdid just about everyone in history in respect of those categories.

868 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:56:30pm

re: #866 Sigma_x

Downding for an insult after ACE had already decided to stop.

869 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 2:58:43pm

re: #854 webevintage
Probably because of this type of thing. Supposedly identified as a lesbian on a Harvard epinons site, living with a fairly well known legal scholar in a committed relationship.
Don't see what it has to do with her qualifications, but it will all come out in the wash.
[Link: www.zimbio.com...]

870 Digital Display  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:00:44pm

re: #868 Dark_Falcon

Downding for an insult after ACE had already decided to stop.

Fire in the hole!
A wise man said once, ' Tell me what you believe. And I'll tell you where you are going wrong.'

871 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:01:20pm

PIMF... ' e-pinions'.

872 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:01:25pm

re: #867 Cato the Elder

The serfs were freed long before the Revolution.

And yes, I'm afraid the Revolution and the sixty years that followed outdid just about everyone in history in respect of those categories.

The status of the serfs didn't materially change after being freed-- it was similar, but worse, than the situation freed blacks faced in the South of the United States. Moreover, the reason why they were emancipated was because of the influence of Western-- i.e Enlightenment-- thought.

Before the Russian Revolution, you could be imprisoned for saying the wrong thing, your property could be taken from you by the corrupt legal system, if you were a normal citizen and not a privileged member of the nobility you had fewer property rights. You were not allowed to choose your own career but generally forced into one by your semi-caste. Forced conscription was the norm. The government entered into disastrous and terrible military adventurism. And of course, the Jews were persecuted and blamed.

After the Russian Revolution, you could be imprisoned for saying the wrong thing, your property could be taken from you by the corrupt legal system, if you were a normal citizen and not a privileged member of the party you had fewer property rights. You were not allowed to choose your own career but generally forced into one by your semi-caste. Forced conscription was the norm. After a brief period where Jews were okay, Jews were persecuted and blamed.

The Soviet Union was evil. So was Czarist Russia. I see no real point in holding one above the other in terms of ethics or morality. They were both fundamentally corrupt at the very root.

873 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:02:58pm

re: #853 Dark_Falcon

Actually, Ludwig, I'd argue we still don't have the sulfur. The far-right still has no charismatic leader to really rally around. Without that, even with a spark, their threat is much less.

well, that, and we're eons away from 1930's Germany in socioeconomic terms...

874 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:03:46pm

re: #860 avanti
Don't know, can't speak for 'The Right'.
I know some people like the idea of a non-judicially-experienced SCOTUS justice, but it seems counterintuitive to me.

875 webevintage  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:03:58pm

re: #869 tradewind

Probably because of this type of thing. Supposedly identified as a lesbian on a Harvard epinons site, living with a fairly well known legal scholar in a committed relationship.
Don't see what it has to do with her qualifications, but it will all come out in the wash.
[Link: www.zimbio.com...]

Ewwww, those are some nasty comments on that site.
But thanks for the gossip.
And like you said either way it has nothing to do with whether or not she would be a good SC Judge.

876 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:04:03pm

re: #855 HoosierHoops

At least..I think..The tennis shoes wouldn't have a bomb in them..I think..
Hey Tony..What do you think of Cushing winning the Rookie of the year for the NFL when he tested positive in Sept for PED's? Should AP revoke the award?

better question: what do we think of USC now that it's Bush, Cushing et al?

no wonder Carroll made like a tree and got outta there!

877 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:04:36pm

re: #853 Dark_Falcon

Actually, Ludwig, I'd argue we still don't have the sulfur. The far-right still has no charismatic leader to really rally around. Without that, even with a spark, their threat is much less.

You know, I'd argue we really have no idea what we have. Not to scare monger, but there's really no way to say there isn't some super charismatic leader out in a barn somewhere giving amazingly passionate speeches on white nationalism, just waiting to make their way onto youtube.

But, this is true in every nation, always has been always will be. Problem is the first part of the equation, mixing, is now much easier than before. Thanks to the internet, cheap video production,etc. This genie is out of the bottle. Have the parts mixed? Maybe, maybe not. The ratios aren't right yet at the very least. Or maybe we are lacking parts. Who knows?

The spark we can, and do need to control. Not to say we should play to fear, but I do think we need to keep people from getting truly desperate. A majority of people have no desire to be Nazis. But, many would rather be comfortable Nazis than watch their family starve. Making sure Nationalism and Racism, ideas like "We'd be fine if it wasn't for those damn foreigners taking your job. Those blacks unable to pay back loans. Those jews stealing our money through the fed. The gays ruining our families and the left destroying our economy" do not get a foothold in the American consciousness is vital.

Its also important that we don't focus on one ideology or side of the political spectrum. If the Tea Party fails, and the economy gets worse, there's no reason why a laid off union couldn't be the group to turn violent. Again, just an example.

But I suspect I'm already preaching to the choir.

878 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:04:59pm

re: #875 webevintage
Didn't get as far as the comments, just went to the first bio site I saw that mentioned it.
But eww, and thanks.

879 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:05:33pm

re: #851 Cato the Elder

When you thought Bagua had deleted your 500 Twitter followers last night (by the way, have you retracted that absurd statement yet?), what exactly was it you feared you had lost?

Does anyone actually pay for your semi-literate Jack-Handyesque market thoughts?

Wow, you're just a bitter, creepy, mean old fart, aren't you?

I have close to 500 followers because of my eerily prescient market predictions. It's as simple as that. Check for yourself, if you want. They're there for all to see.

880 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:06:36pm

re: #877 McSpiff

You're preaching pretty, though. Good stuff.

881 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:06:39pm

re: #859 wrenchwench

If she had advanced that idea because she is anti-military, I would think that was bad. But since her reason was the unfairness of "don't ask-don't tell", I think it was good (although she lost.)

eh. that's a little thin, isn't it? why ban something when you can allow it while speaking out against what you don't agree with?

when the right bans something they find amoral, we wring hands. let's be consistent...

882 Digital Display  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:06:48pm

re: #876 Aceofwhat?

better question: what do we think of USC now that it's Bush, Cushing et al?

no wonder Carroll made like a tree and got outta there!

So USC has been left in ashes..And who do they hire? Lane? This is going to be funny...I think we are going to see corruption on a new level...This thing is higher than the AD...Follow the money

883 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:06:58pm

re: #879 Sigma_x

I know 14 year old girls with more friends on facebook. Hell, leave a twitter account public long enough and can get a few hundred spam bots following you.

884 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:07:34pm

re: #879 Sigma_x

885 webevintage  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:07:42pm

re: #879 Sigma_x

Wow, you're just a bitter, creepy, mean old fart, aren't you?

You may be the biggest asshole that I have ever seen on this site.
And that is saying a lot....
I guess if that is your goal then well done.

886 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:08:04pm

re: #877 McSpiff

Well said. Upding.

887 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:08:18pm

re: #879 Sigma_x

Wow, you're just a bitter, creepy, mean old fart, aren't you?

I have close to 500 followers because of my eerily prescient market predictions. It's as simple as that. Check for yourself, if you want. They're there for all to see.

Predictions like this... and this.

But I guess none of that means anything to you. To you it's... what was it? "Jacky Handy simpleton" something or other?

888 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:08:26pm

re: #879 Sigma_x

Wow, you're just a bitter, creepy, mean old fart, aren't you?

I have close to 500 followers because of my eerily prescient market predictions. It's as simple as that. Check for yourself, if you want. They're there for all to see.

If you were really as good as your boast, you would have paying clients, not Twitter followers.

I suspect some are there to point and laugh when you say things like "my eerily prescient market predictions".

Please stick around, the chuckles are like medicine to me.

889 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:08:28pm

re: #868 Dark_Falcon

Downding for an insult after ACE had already decided to stop.

i have no problem not responding to it out of the tremendous respect that i have for you (not to mention Charles).

890 _remembertonyc  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:09:14pm

re: #855 HoosierHoops

At least..I think..The tennis shoes wouldn't have a bomb in them..I think..
Hey Tony..What do you think of Cushing winning the Rookie of the year for the NFL when he tested positive in Sept for PED's? Should AP revoke the award?

excellent question ..... not sure how I feel about that one, Hoosier.

891 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:09:41pm

re: #882 HoosierHoops

So USC has been left in ashes..And who do they hire? Lane? This is going to be funny...I think we are going to see corruption on a new level...This thing is higher than the AD...Follow the money

i knew i liked you...i just had a good feeling about you...

892 avanti  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:10:28pm

re: #874 tradewind

Don't know, can't speak for 'The Right'.
I know some people like the idea of a non-judicially-experienced SCOTUS justice, but it seems counterintuitive to me.

Well, it was OK for Nixon to send William H. Rehnquist to the court, and Reagan to elevate him to chief justice without previous experience.


"Law Practice
Private practice of law, Phoenix, Arizona, 1953-1969. Engaged in a general practice of law with primary emphasis on civil litigation.
Government Service
Served in the United States Army Air Corps in this country and overseas from 1943 to 1946. Discharged with the rank of sergeant. Appointed Assistant Attorney General, Office of Legal Counsel, by President Nixon in January 1969.
Judicial Offices
Nominated Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States by President Nixon on October 21, 1971; sworn in on January 7, 1972.

Nominated Chief Justice of the United States by President Reagan on June 17, 1986; sworn in on September 26, 1986. "

893 webevintage  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:10:29pm

I think "eerily prescient market predictions" should become one of the rotating titles at the top.

894 garhighway  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:10:52pm

re: #843 tradewind

SCOTUS picks should not be subject to scrutiny re their gender or sexual preference, religion or lack of it, etc.
But what bothers me about Kagan is that she's literally never sat on a bench, she would make the SC a total hall of Harvard, and she has not one word of opinion on which to suss out her ideas on the law.
Well, except for the part about kicking the ROTC people off campus at Harvard.

The "you have to have sat on the bench to be on SCOTUS" is a relatively new phenomena. Across the Court's history, there were a lot of Justices that came fro other fields of the law.

895 wrenchwench  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:11:34pm

re: #881 Aceofwhat?

eh. that's a little thin, isn't it? why ban something when you can allow it while speaking out against what you don't agree with?

when the right bans something they find amoral, we wring hands. let's be consistent...

Must be a little thin, since she lost. But I wouldn't criticize her for that position.

896 _remembertonyc  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:12:44pm

re: #863 LudwigVanQuixote

They were part of the process that started this. They created a climate for it. I blame Fox most of all.

The racist and totalitarian memes we are seeing here should not be dismissed.

Read what the good teabaggers in Maine have the GOP posing as a platform again.

Does any of that sound like American values to you?

They do however fit in very well with Nazi values.

I think the fact that you disagreed with Bush and Cheney is proof of their "dark" hearts. Sorry, but I'm not taking that leap. Both are fine Americans.

897 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:14:25pm

re: #888 Cato the Elder

If you were really as good as your boast, you would have paying clients, not Twitter followers.

I suspect some are there to point and laugh when you say things like "my eerily prescient market predictions".

Please stick around, the chuckles are like medicine to me.

All it is is having the balls to post your trades in real time - both winners and losers. You post your entry and exit on each and every trade, and it's all there in front of God and everyone. It's one thing to just say you make money in the stock market. It's an entirely different matter to put it all out there on the line and actually prove you make money in the stock market.

After enough people see you make money, they start following you and going in and out with you on these trades. If I were no good at what I do, I would be the laughing stock (no pun intended) of the twitter-shpere.

But I guess it's easier for you to harbor some fantasy that I'm just one big loser. Well, whatever makes you happy.

898 _remembertonyc  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:14:40pm

re: #876 Aceofwhat?

better question: what do we think of USC now that it's Bush, Cushing et al?

no wonder Carroll made like a tree and got outta there!

The athletic director at USC (former Heisman Trophy winner Mike Garrett) is a real dick. Carroll probably had enough of him ...

899 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:14:55pm

re: #895 wrenchwench

Must be a little thin, since she lost. But I wouldn't criticize her for that position.

i don't think it's a big deal, but i think it smacks of similar practices which we don't condone on the right.

DADT is an ugly wart, not a terminal illness. i think it'd be fair to ask why she threw the baby out with the bathwater, but i wouldn't support anything stronger than that line of questioning.

900 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:15:50pm

re: #897 Sigma_x

That's nice, Captain You Planet.
;)

901 _remembertonyc  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:16:14pm

re: #879 Sigma_x

Wow, you're just a bitter, creepy, mean old fart, aren't you?

I have close to 500 followers because of my eerily prescient market predictions. It's as simple as that. Check for yourself, if you want. They're there for all to see.

LOL .... What powerball numbers should I play?

902 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:16:20pm

re: #879 Sigma_x

Did somebody piss in your cornflakes this morning?

903 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:16:34pm

Sigma, the new thread is about you.

Really.

Can we ever expect you to acknowledge that your spectacular meltdown on the overnight thread, in which you accused a specific Lizard of buggering your Twitter account, was insanely paranoid-delusional nonsense?

There are many here who are waiting to hear you say it. It will not go away or be glossed over or forgotten if you simply act like it never happened.

Call it an eerily prescient premonition of mine.

904 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:17:37pm

re: #863 LudwigVanQuixote

The racist and totalitarian memes we are seeing here should not be dismissed.

I'll grant you that the far right is exhibiting a troubling racist meme.

Totalitarian? Not so much.

905 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:18:02pm

re: #897 Sigma_x

Still here desperately pimping your Stock Tips Agency scam I see. Great, I'll repost my reply for the benefit of your intended victims here.

906 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:18:09pm

re: #903 Cato the Elder

I could dig it

907 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:18:11pm

re: #903 Cato the Elder

Sigma, the new thread is about you.

Really.

Can we ever expect you to acknowledge that your spectacular meltdown on the overnight thread, in which you accused a specific Lizard of buggering your Twitter account, was insanely paranoid-delusional nonsense?

There are many here who are waiting to hear you say it. It will not go away or be glossed over or forgotten if you simply act like it never happened.

Call it an eerily prescient premonition of mine.

Well, I suppose it's fair game to pile up on someone, get them all flustered, and then, once they say something stupid, use that as evidence to further your insults. And that's exactly what happened.

It's brilliantly simple, when I think about it. And I fell for it.

908 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:18:42pm

re: #905 Bagua

Still here desperately pimping your Stock Tips Agency scam I see. Great, I'll repost my reply for the benefit of your intended victims here.

dude, why did you hack Sigma's twitter account?

909 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:19:42pm

re: #879 Sigma_x

It's the Butthurt Fandango, danced by trolls on their way out the door. It's an easy dance, here are the steps:

1. Drop a turd of a comment (such as accusing others of deleting your Twitter followers).

2. Complain about farts from other posters.

3. Complain about being singled out when someone points out you dropped a turd.

4. Whine, seeth, and threaten when Cato, Walter and Ace call you on your lies and BS.

5. Complain about the blog and suggest others be banned.

6. Get bounced out on your ass by Charles.

7. Go to LGF-hostile site (in Sigma's case this would likely be Nodrog's blog and scream about "the Tyrannical Charles of LFG".

910 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:19:53pm

re: #881 Aceofwhat?

eh. that's a little thin, isn't it? why ban something when you can allow it while speaking out against what you don't agree with?

when the right bans something they find amoral, we wring hands. let's be consistent...

I'm going to have to be a repeat poster on the subject of Kagan and the Military Recruiting ban. Here is one part of a very long story. It is not as simple as "she's against the military" which is the theme being pushed, and repeated by those who do not wish to read the whole long story. Here is the beginning, from SCOTUSblog

In 1979, Harvard Law School adopted an anti-discrimination policy requiring any employer using the Office of Career Services for recruiting to sign a statement indicating that it did not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or certain other criteria; pursuant to that policy, the law school banned military recruiters from using the Office of Career Services.

At some point between 1979 and 1992, the school permitted recruitment through a student group, the HLS Veterans Association. (That group was founded in 1985; it is possible another group was involved earlier.) Under that policy, the recruiters used the same physical facilities, but were denied recognition under the law school’s career placement processes.

The ban started under the ban of anyone who discriminated. It went from there. It was never completely banned, and she as President followed the court ruling. It was not only Harvard either.

I highly recommend reading this long article.

SCOTUS blog

911 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:19:54pm

re: #908 cliffster

dude, why did you hack Sigma's twitter account?

He didn't hack my twitter account. That was stupid and paranoid of me to say.

But he did go on my blog and post some nasty comment. So it wasn't entirely ridiculous of me to assume that.

Or was it?

912 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:20:04pm

re: #908 cliffster

dude, why did you hack Sigma's twitter account?

Dude, he's a CLASS A SUPER HACKER! He deleted every friend on twitter!
///

913 Digital Display  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:20:15pm

re: #891 Aceofwhat?

i knew i liked you...i just had a good feeling about you...

/Psst..I'm a NorCal boy...We have a law that you must hate all things SoCal..
Schools..Cities..Sports teams..Hollywood..Everything..OK not the Beaches..But that's another issue..California is a very competitive state...We should just turn off the water and make em all move to Arizona..
/Anybody else talks trash about California that isn't from there are not allowed to say anything..It's like brothers fighting..The last thing you want to do is step between them..Both will kick your butt

914 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:20:46pm

re: #910 Stanley Sea

The ban started under the ban of anyone who discriminated. It went from there. It was never completely banned, and she as President followed the court ruling. It was not only Harvard either.

I highly recommend reading this long article.

SCOTUS blog

thanks, i appreciate that. am reading now.

915 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:20:47pm

Goodbye. Have a nice night, folks.

916 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:20:53pm

re: #907 Sigma_x

Man, you haven't even said anything of a creationist nature yet and you're losing karma faster than a tea partier flouncing on acid...=)

917 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:21:29pm

re: #909 Dark_Falcon

for the record, i'm still refraining, although the teeth are grinding a bit;)

918 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:21:40pm

re: #896 _remembertonyc

I think the fact that you disagreed with Bush and Cheney is proof of their "dark" hearts. Sorry, but I'm not taking that leap. Both are fine Americans.

I think a big part of the current problem is Karl Rove, and what I believe was his idea of an endless majority. The idea that the right was so strong with its SoCon grass roots, Neo-con leaders, etc, etc that it could never be defeated. Which was never going to happen from day one. But it seems like some of their followers bought into that idea to the point that it somehow mutated into the 'right' to lead America. Losing this election wasn't just an exercise in democracy, something they owned was cruelly, and unfairly ripped from their arms.

Some decided to reject the system whole sale, others have latched onto Alex Jones conspiracies. The whole 'endless majority' idea meant they would never need to work with the Dems again, warping the dialog into the current "enemy of America" that some factions use. Glenn Beck's "Something isn't right in America" speeches.

The something, I think, is that their promised endless power was removed. I have no evidence what so ever to back any of this up. Feel free to shred this post as you see fit.

919 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:21:55pm

re: #907 Sigma_x

Well, I suppose it's fair game to pile up on someone, get them all flustered, and then, once they say something stupid, use that as evidence to further your insults. And that's exactly what happened.

It's brilliantly simple, when I think about it. And I fell for it.

Ah. So you're a scion of Marion Barry. "Goddamn bitch set me up."

You'll never apologize, I can see that.

Good for you. Stick to your shtick. It stinks, but it's so bad it's good, in a way that you would not appreciate if it were explained to you.

920 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:22:08pm

re: #897 Sigma_x

It's not all about you! Get over it. I don't care about your business exploits.

921 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:22:19pm

re: #911 Sigma_x

Yes, it was really fucking stupid and ridiculous of you to accuse him of hacking your Twitter account.

And I don't like Bagua at all, in any way. But it was completely, paranoidly idiotic of you to accuse anyone-- much less a specific someone-- of hacking your Twitter account.

How does your brain make the leap from "He posed a bad comment on my blog" to "He hackzored my twitters"?

922 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:22:46pm

re: #919 Cato the Elder

#911 was kind've an apology

923 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:23:39pm

re: #728 Guanxi88

Hell, it was a requirement of it. You can't cut loose from tradition and not have to use the threat of death to get things done. As Burke pointed out, every prospect leads tot he gallows.

It was early Pol Pot. Chopped the head off the king, the queen, and anyone suspected of being or sympathizing with the nobility. Waged genocidal wars against entire territories in the provinces that wanted nothing to do with the Parisian-inspired revolution. In the cemetery a few blocks from my place there's a very old collective tombstone with the names of a dozen or so nuns who were slaughtered in their convent.

Liberty, Fraternity and Equality.

Mes fesses (my ass).

924 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:24:27pm

Repost from [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

re: #364 Sigma_x


LOL, whine much? You are here pimping yourself and your blog/tweets as a trading advisor, basically spamming the forum and you are surprised you get a little attention? Tough luck. You are not going to find gullible people here to follow your stock tip service without some fact checking. This is LGF, not Twitter.

I will only address one of your long-winded posts.


B) You claim that I "don't even have $25K in my account." Question - how would you know how much money I have in my account(s)? Just curious. I have 5 different accounts, and, without divulging how much money I keep in them, I will simply say that it is a lot more than $25K. That was just a stupid thing to say, and I think anyone could see right through that one.

How do I know? Because you said so on yourBlog which I quoted above in #192.


You don’t have to put much money in it to open up the account, and you can withdraw it at any time (or you can just go ahead and use it to trade with - having several accounts helps one get around the round trip rule - which is supposed to preclude you from buying and selling - and then buying again - the same stock within a 24 hr. period. But no one follows it, anyway, and it’s very rare that the SEC comes down on retail traders for violating it. sigma -x blog

Those are your words, on your blog. A Day Trader only need have $25,000 in their account in order to daytrade. * The SEC believes that people whose account sizes are less than $25,000 may represent less sophisticated traders, who may be more prone to being misled by advisory brokers and/or tipping agencies. The only reason you would need “several accounts” to help you “get around” that rule is because you do not have $25,000 in any account. QED.

Stop pretending, and stop the bullshit.

In fact you admit as much and far, far worse:

You claim that I advise people on how to get around SEC rules. In that you're correct. For people that aren't listed as day traders on their taxes, there's a little thing known as the in-and-out rule - which precludes one from selling a stock and then buying back in within a 24 hr period. I advise traders to open several accounts to get around that rule. Why should the big boys on Wall St. be free to do whatever they want, when your average joe is hampered by rules designed to cut them off at the knees. I have no regrets on that point.

So you are not only advising people to violate SEC regulations intended to protect them from people like you*, you are also advising them how to commit tax fraud as well. Obviously you “have no regrets,” because you are a con-man pimping your stock-tip agency, pure and simple.

925 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:24:57pm

re: #892 avanti
It doesn't really make that much difference to me... I just found it a little counterintuitive, not a deal breaker. Most justices have had at least some prior lower court experience, which seems to make sense.

926 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:24:58pm

re: #911 Sigma_x

I went through the comments on your blog. What are you talking about???

927 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:25:11pm

re: #905 Bagua

Still here desperately pimping your Stock Tips Agency scam I see. Great, I'll repost my reply for the benefit of your intended victims here.

Please do. I didn't see the original.

928 tradewind  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:27:24pm

re: #921 Obdicut

And I don't like Bagua at all, in any way.

Tough cookies... you still have to share your toys. /

929 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:27:36pm

re: #922 cliffster

#911 was kind've an apology

Yeah, if "apology" means "keep blaming others for making me forget to put on my pants and underwear before leaving the house in the morning"...

930 McSpiff  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:28:10pm

re: #924 Bagua

re: #924 Bagua

I reposted one of your posts from last night earlier, as well as recanting some of our discussion. Just to provide some context on why Sigma picked you out as the likely super hacker.

All done to uphold your sterling reputation I assure you.

931 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:29:36pm

re: #879 Sigma_x

I have close to 500 followers because of my eerily prescient market predictions.

Prophecy and prescience — How can they be put to the test in the face of the unanswered questions? Consider: How much is actual prediction of the "wave form" (as Muad'Dib referred to his vision-image) and how much is the prophet shaping the future to fit the prophecy? What of the harmonics inherent in the act of prophecy? Does the prophet see the future or does he see a line of weakness, a fault or cleavage that he may shatter with words or decisions as a diamond-cutter shatters his gem with a blow of a knife?
— Private Reflections on Muad'Dib by the Princess Irulan

932 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:30:44pm

re: #896 _remembertonyc

I think the fact that you disagreed with Bush and Cheney is proof of their "dark" hearts. Sorry, but I'm not taking that leap. Both are fine Americans.

I resent the way that you dismiss my points with language like disagreed. As if it were a matter of simply having differing views on the best ice cream for desert.

So before we get into this, for the record, I am not a Dem. My disgust with Bush and Cheney is not partisan.

MY disgust with them has to do with illegal actions they undertook which IMHO were impeahable, the polarization of American politics to the point of stupidity, contempt for the constitution, anti-science propaganda and attempts to stifle science and a host of socon wedge issues.

They lied to start the war in Iraq. They lied and I know it because I know what it takes to extract weapons grade Uranium. So does every physicist. We all knew that their lies cost thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars and in the process weakened the United States militarily, economically and politically.

That is not some disagreement. They lied. I know it, the physics proves it. The consequences are that we are still there in an ever more destabilized region while Iran with a real atomic program marches forward and the US can do precious little about it without incurring heavy costs- even if we had a hawk for a president.

They tortured. Torturing prisoners is evil and against what America stands for. It is also against the law.

They spied on Americans without the consent of the law. I don't care that Obama is continuing some of the same bad policies. No warrant, no search.

They did everything in their power to stifle AGW scientists. Fortunately they did not have direct control over America's research facilities. Don't even get me started on stem cells or evolution.

They persistently used insipid wedge issues like gay marriage to distract from the real problems America was facing.

The so called fiscally responsible ones created the financial crisis. There were eight years of GOP mismanagement that caused this. That rests squarely on the GOP.

Don't even get me started on the fact that outing an undercover agent for political purposes is called treason.

Don't get me started on their ties to the Saudis.

So no, it was not some "disagreement." They are not fine Americans. They are criminals.

933 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:31:13pm

re: #851 Cato the Elder

When you thought Bagua had deleted your 500 Twitter followers last night (by the way, have you retracted that absurd statement yet?), what exactly was it you feared you had lost?

Does anyone actually pay for your semi-literate Jack-Handyesque market thoughts?

What's this? I was accused of hacking? Lol.

934 avanti  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:31:46pm

re: #925 tradewind

It doesn't really make that much difference to me... I just found it a little counterintuitive, not a deal breaker. Most justices have had at least some prior lower court experience, which seems to make sense.

Most of those without court experience, clerked for the Supreme's, just as Obama's pick did. I think we've had great justices without experience, and bad ones with plenty. It's a issue to discuss, but not necessarily a deal breaker.

As in politics, if you have experience, your labeled a insider, if not, you lack experience.

935 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:32:05pm

re: #933 Bagua

What's this? I was accused of hacking? Lol.

Yes. It was very lol.

936 [deleted]  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:32:08pm
937 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:32:10pm

re: #926 Varek Raith

I went through the comments on your blog. What are you talking about???

Forget it, he's gone. He's a Sniper Troll: he pops up to spew and attack and then dives back into his troll hole when things get too hot for him.

938 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:33:23pm

re: #904 Aceofwhat?

I'll grant you that the far right is exhibiting a troubling racist meme.

Totalitarian? Not so much.

So, revamping schools to teach only the truths they see fit, re-writing history and science and sex ed is not totalitarian?

Removing separation of church and state is not totalitarian?

Forcing people who don't look right to prove their citizenship on demand is not totalitarian?

Stripping accused people before a trial even of citizenship is not totalitarian?

Torturing people is not totalitarian?

Being opposed to giving accused criminals open trials is not totalitarian?

Are you kidding me?

939 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:34:38pm

re: #935 Varek Raith

Yes. It was very lol.

Okay, this is funny, I've got to go find the comment.

940 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:34:45pm

re: #924 Bagua

You Pwned him. =)

941 theheat  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:36:55pm

Wow. Talk about "clinging to their guns and religion"... Who would'a thought that quip would have some teeth? Truer words were never spoken. The GOP has all the fancy trimmings: ignorance, racism, fundieness, rowdyness, conspiracy kookness, flatearthers, closeted hater homos, and lots and lots of guns.

Reform is out of the question, so I can only hope the party dies a hasty death before they inflict too much damage on everyone who isn't them. Every time I read about their march off the cliff to the right, I reposition a little farther left so not to get caught in the undertow.

The crazy is unstoppable, and it's to the core.

942 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:37:04pm

re: #932 LudwigVanQuixote

I resent the way that you dismiss my points with language like disagreed. As if it were a matter of simply having differing views on the best ice cream for desert.

So before we get into this, for the record, I am not a Dem. My disgust with Bush and Cheney is not partisan.

MY disgust with them has to do with illegal actions they undertook which IMHO were impeahable, the polarization of American politics to the point of stupidity, contempt for the constitution, anti-science propaganda and attempts to stifle science and a host of socon wedge issues.

They lied to start the war in Iraq. They lied and I know it because I know what it takes to extract weapons grade Uranium. So does every physicist. We all knew that their lies cost thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars and in the process weakened the United States militarily, economically and politically.

That is not some disagreement. They lied. I know it, the physics proves it. The consequences are that we are still there in an ever more destabilized region while Iran with a real atomic program marches forward and the US can do precious little about it without incurring heavy costs- even if we had a hawk for a president.

They tortured. Torturing prisoners is evil and against what America stands for. It is also against the law.

They spied on Americans without the consent of the law. I don't care that Obama is continuing some of the same bad policies. No warrant, no search.

They did everything in their power to stifle AGW scientists. Fortunately they did not have direct control over America's research facilities. Don't even get me started on stem cells or evolution.

They persistently used insipid wedge issues like gay marriage to distract from the real problems America was facing.

The so called fiscally responsible ones created the financial crisis. There were eight years of GOP mismanagement that caused this. That rests squarely on the GOP.

Don't even get me started on the fact that outing an undercover agent for political purposes is called treason.

Don't get me started on their ties to the Saudis.

So no, it was not some "disagreement." They are not fine Americans. They are criminals.

don't get me started about stem cells either. the promise is in the adult stem cells. let's not let a policy we might deem restrictive blind us to the basic fact that embryonic stem cells seem to pose far more risk for similar reward than adult stem cells.

943 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:37:29pm

Someone put some smegma
In the Twitter feed of Sigma.
Sigma sensed something was wrong
And gave us all a little song.

The song became an aria
In which a certain Bagua
Got blamed for x-ing Sigma's friends.
Sigma nearly got the bends.

When Sigma's story's water broke
And all could see it was a joke,
Sigma seethed and whined and spat,
Very like a clawless cat.

The moral of the story is,
When Sigma-x is taking hits
He devolves quickly into fits
While all the Lizards take the pizz.

Copyright © 2010 Cato the Elder

944 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:37:42pm

re: #939 Bagua

Okay, this is funny, I've got to go find the comment.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

945 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:38:38pm

re: #933 Bagua

What's this? I was accused of hacking? Lol.

You didn't see it? Sigma named you personally as the Lizard who hacked his Twitter account and deleted all 500 of his followers. He nearly had an aneurysm over it.

946 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:38:54pm

re: #936 Sigma_x

You advocate violating SEC rules by tricking your brokers and violating the agreements you sign with them, this adds perjury to your scam, much worse you advocate Tax Fraud and and give your gullible followers instructions how to do so.

What is even more amusing, hysterical in fact, is that you don't even seem to understand what you are admitting to.

947 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:40:25pm

re: #938 LudwigVanQuixote

So, revamping schools to teach only the truths they see fit, re-writing history and science and sex ed is not totalitarian?

Removing separation of church and state is not totalitarian?

Forcing people who don't look right to prove their citizenship on demand is not totalitarian?

Stripping accused people before a trial even of citizenship is not totalitarian?

Torturing people is not totalitarian?

Being opposed to giving accused criminals open trials is not totalitarian?

Are you kidding me?

totalitarian: Of, relating to, being, or imposing a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed.

i am not saying that what you have listed is good or bad. i am saying that your definition of "totalitarian" is far too broad. that's all.

948 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:41:11pm

re: #943 Cato the Elder

Someone put some smegma
In the Twitter feed of Sigma.
Sigma sensed something was wrong
And gave us all a little song.

The song became an aria
In which a certain Bagua
Got blamed for x-ing Sigma's friends.
Sigma nearly got the bends.

When Sigma's story's water broke
And all could see it was a joke,
Sigma seethed and whined and spat,
Very like a clawless cat.

The moral of the story is,
When Sigma-x is taking hits
He devolves quickly into fits
While all the Lizards take the pizz.

Copyright © 2010 Cato the Elder

LMAO! Laughing at both the joke and Sigma. All restrictions of going after him are withdrawn. Lets go hunt some troll.

949 [deleted]  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:41:39pm
950 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:43:27pm

re: #944 Varek Raith

Oh, Lol, thanks for that.

re: #945 Cato the Elder

What a riot! Not only a con-man, but a delusional paranoid to boot!

I wonder if sigma-x will use the same nic on the stalker blogs?

951 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:44:14pm

re: #949 Sigma_x

Wow, I can't believe it's come to this - I actually have to show a screen shot of one of my accounts.

If this is what it takes to shut you up,...

With that screenshot, you have given Bagua everything he needs to hack into your account and steal all your money.

952 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:44:43pm

re: #949 Sigma_x

Wow, I can't believe it's come to this - I actually have to show a screen shot of one of my accounts.

If this is what it takes to shut you up,...

How gauche.

953 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:46:35pm

re: #949 Sigma_x

Wow, I can't believe it's come to this - I actually have to show a screen shot of one of my accounts.

If this is what it takes to shut you up,...

Dude, even if he's way off about the 25k, your "this is how to circumvent the SEC rules" trick is as amoral as the "corporate interests" who, according to you, own the republican party as a full subsidiary. And i'm quoting you there, as i usually do.

Hypocrite much? Aahhh...much too much, thankyouverymuch...

954 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:47:01pm

re: #952 Summer

How gauche.

you should see the OT. this is nothing...

955 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:47:07pm

I'm still waiting to hear how exactly I qualify as a "con-man" if I don't charge anyone anything?

I simply post my trades in real time on twitter, as thousands and thousands of other traders do.

I wouldn't expect a bunch of shut-ins to understand the first thing about trading. So I don't know why I'm even bothering to get into this with you.

I just don't like being called a con-man.

956 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:47:15pm

re: #949 Sigma_x

Wow, I can't believe it's come to this - I actually have to show a screen shot of one of my accounts.

If this is what it takes to shut you up,...

I'm not going to click your link. Your accounts are your business and of absolutely no interest to me.

What would interest me is the morality behind your approval of the quote from Michael Milken on your blog: "The secret to successful trading is to find people stupider than you to take advantage of."

This is how you admit to making your money. And then you have the purple gall to mock someone like Walter who makes his living bagging groceries, for now. In a bad economy, he took the job he was offered.

You are an élitist of the worst kind and part of the problem in this society. Sure, what you do is legal. So is selling booze to alcoholics.

957 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:48:20pm

re: #953 Aceofwhat?

Dude, even if he's way off about the 25k, your "this is how to circumvent the SEC rules" trick is as amoral as the "corporate interests" who, according to you, own the republican party as a full subsidiary. And i'm quoting you there, as i usually do.

Hypocrite much? Aahhh...much too much, thankyouverymuch...

Like chucking a planet at a barrel of fish.

958 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:48:58pm

re: #955 Sigma_x

I'm still waiting to hear how exactly I qualify as a "con-man" if I don't charge anyone anything?

I simply post my trades in real time on twitter, as thousands and thousands of other traders do.

I wouldn't expect a bunch of shut-ins to understand the first thing about trading. So I don't know why I'm even bothering to get into this with you.

I just don't like being called a con-man.

I'm sure Walter didn't like being called old, stupid and ugly.

Suck it up or go find another sandbox. Your reputation on LGF is what you make it.

959 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:49:33pm

re: #955 Sigma_x

I just don't like being called a con-man.

Let me help. I'll quote you.


My advice were [sic] for people trying to circumvent that rule. I have no regrets passing that on.

actually, maybe you're right. this is more up the fraud alley than the con alley...

960 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:49:41pm

re: #956 Cato the Elder

I'm not going to click your link. Your accounts are your business and of absolutely no interest to me.

What would interest me is the morality behind your approval of the quote from Michael Milken on your blog: "The secret to successful trading is to find people stupider than you to take advantage of."

This is how you admit to making your money. And then you have the purple gall to mock someone like Walter who makes his living bagging groceries, for now. In a bad economy, he took the job he was offered.

You are an élitist of the worst kind and part of the problem in this society. Sure, what you do is legal. So is selling booze to alcoholics.

'Cause if you want to swim with the sharks, you better grow some teeth. Wall St. is a criminal enterprise, and they want your money. Plain and simple. I don't think there's a single thing wrong with leveling the playing field. What would you have me do - stick to some vague notion of principles - and stay poor - or use the same dirty tricks the crooks on Wall st. use and make money?

I've made my decision.

961 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:49:43pm

re: #952 Summer

How gauche.

Hey, beauty! I'm having a toga party later this week. Wanna come?

962 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:50:43pm

re: #949 Sigma_x

Wow, I can't believe it's come to this - I actually have to show a screen shot of one of my accounts.

If this is what it takes to shut you up,...

I don't think you could wait to show that off.

963 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:50:59pm

re: #960 Sigma_x

'Cause if you want to swim with the sharks, you better grow some teeth. Wall St. is a criminal enterprise, and they want your money. Plain and simple. I don't think there's a single thing wrong with leveling the playing field. What would you have me do - stick to some vague notion of principles - and stay poor - or use the same dirty tricks the crooks on Wall st. use and make money?

I've made my decision.

I suppose the idea of getting a real job never occurred to you?

964 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:51:39pm

re: #958 Cato the Elder

I'm sure Walter didn't like being called old, stupid and ugly.

Suck it up or go find another sandbox. Your reputation on LGF is what you make it.

Walter's a big boy - and if he's man enough to go around telling other people "fuck you" out of nowhere for no reason whatsoever, then he should be man enough to take whatever is thrown back his way.

965 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:52:07pm

LOL.

966 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:53:16pm

re: #951 cliffster

With that screenshot, you have given Bagua everything he needs to hack into your account and steal all your money.

LOL, on it!

For the record, that is a screen shot of some random IRA account, not a margin account of the type sigma-x discusses in his blog. Now this is true Con-man behaviour, posting screen shots of phony accounts. I believe this is called "flashing the money" during aConfidence Trick AKA Long Con.

967 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:53:20pm

re: #957 Varek Raith

Like chucking a planet at a barrel of fish.

indeed. not difficult. still fun, though! excessive firepower is a riot;)

968 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:54:36pm

re: #964 Sigma_x

Walter's a big boy - and if he's man enough to go around telling other people "fuck you" out of nowhere for no reason whatsoever, then he should be man enough to take whatever is thrown back his way.

I like that you nic is about a deviation. I am more than a little biased about Walter so I'll stick up for you on that one point, but Cato is good people.

I don't have a really good read for you though. You seem to enjoy being a bit of a soft troll. I can dig it, but you will catch fie if you do that.

969 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:54:37pm

re: #949 Sigma_x

Wow, I can't believe it's come to this - I actually have to show a screen shot of one of my accounts.

If this is what it takes to shut you up,...

HELLO! My name is Summer Seale, daughter of UMBATWA BAFEZU, former PRIME MINISTER OF NIGERIA.

As you may know, my father was ousted from power by a band of thugs and died recently in Botswana. However, he has left me a huge family fortune along the lines of $15,000,000. Unfortunately, I am unable to access this account at this time because of certain legal complications. I appeal to you to send me your bank account number so as to....

970 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:54:40pm

re: #967 Aceofwhat?

indeed. not difficult. still fun, though! excessive firepower is a riot;)

FUCK YEAH!

971 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:55:16pm

re: #958 Cato the Elder

I'm sure Walter didn't like being called old, stupid and ugly.

Suck it up or go find another sandbox. Your reputation on LGF is what you make it.

And right now he's put his reputation in the toilet. Already down around 150 karma for the day. And he's spiked the meter too:

972 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:55:38pm

re: #960 Sigma_x

'Cause if you want to swim with the sharks, you better grow some teeth. Wall St. is a criminal enterprise, and they want your money. Plain and simple. I don't think there's a single thing wrong with leveling the playing field. What would you have me do - stick to some vague notion of principles - and stay poor - or use the same dirty tricks the crooks on Wall st. use and make money?

I've made my decision.

Now if you actually believe this, what you have done is write a manifesto for exactly why our civilization is going to hell.

973 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:56:00pm

re: #966 Bagua

LOL, on it!

For the record, that is a screen shot of some random IRA account, not a margin account of the type sigma-x discusses in his blog. Now this is true Con-man behaviour, posting screen shots of phony accounts. I believe this is called "flashing the money" during aConfidence Trick AKA Long Con.

You are an idiot of epic proportions. That is my IRA account. One of several I use to trade from. And how you could tell whether or not it's a margin account is beyond me, unless you're a psychic. There's nothing on the balance page of an account that would indicate whether or not the trader has a margin account.

You're a real piece of shit for calling me a con-man. And I can guarantee you you wouldn't say that shit to my face, unless you wanted to get your head popped off like a bottle cap.

But I'll ask again - how exactly am I a con-man, if I don't charge anyone anything? What is it, exactly, that I am conning people out of?

974 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:56:29pm

re: #960 Sigma_x

'Cause if you want to swim with the sharks, you better grow some teeth. Wall St. is a criminal enterprise, and they want your money. Plain and simple. I don't think there's a single thing wrong with leveling the playing field. What would you have me do - stick to some vague notion of principles - and stay poor - or use the same dirty tricks the crooks on Wall st. use and make money?

I've made my decision.

That's odd. I make a few bucks (not going to post any accounts...it's called "taste") and yet I don't use dirty, illegal tricks. Of course, the supply chain management field isn't nearly as glamorous as tricking stupid people out of their money.

975 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:57:02pm

re: #946 Bagua

You advocate violating SEC rules by tricking your brokers and violating the agreements you sign with them, this adds perjury to your scam, much worse you advocate Tax Fraud and and give your gullible followers instructions how to do so.

What is even more amusing, hysterical in fact, is that you don't even seem to understand what you are admitting to.

Loathe to do it, but well said. very well said.

976 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:58:19pm

re: #973 Sigma_x

And I can guarantee you you wouldn't say that shit to my face, unless you wanted to get your head popped off like a bottle cap.

Cue the internet tough guy. He will e-kick your iButt.

977 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:59:19pm

re: #969 Summer

HELLO! My name is Summer Seale, daughter of UMBATWA BAFEZU, former PRIME MINISTER OF NIGERIA.

As you may know, my father was ousted from power by a band of thugs and died recently in Botswana. However, he has left me a huge family fortune along the lines of $15,000,000. Unfortunately, I am unable to access this account at this time because of certain legal complications. I appeal to you to send me your bank account number so as to...

Only if you promise to come to my toga party.

978 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 3:59:40pm

re: #972 ludwigvanquixote

Now if you actually believe this, what you have done is write a manifesto for exactly why our civilization is going to hell.

it gets better after you read his rants about corporate america owning the politicans through and through.

the dissonance is strong with this one...

979 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:00:11pm

re: #969 Summer

Don't worry, like Bagua said, he only has $25,000 in his account

980 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:00:16pm

re: #977 Cato the Elder

Only if you promise to come to my toga party.

Speaking of which we should have you come down to the DC area... The GF and I are going to throw a shindig in the near future and your woofer can play with my woofers.

981 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:00:17pm

re: #966 Bagua

LOL, on it!

For the record, that is a screen shot of some random IRA account, not a margin account of the type sigma-x discusses in his blog. Now this is true Con-man behaviour, posting screen shots of phony accounts. I believe this is called "flashing the money" during aConfidence Trick AKA Long Con.

I suppose to someone who's probably never made more than $14 an hour in his life, it might all seem very scary to you, have you thinking that it must be a fraud, all this making real money.

I'm still waiting on your answer on how exactly I'm conning people. Out of what, I ask? That's a pretty serious accusation.

982 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:00:27pm

re: #973 Sigma_x

Does Goldman Sachs know that you're conducting business or offering financial advice using the name SIGMA X? It seems as though Goldman Sachs has been using SIGMA X as a trade name for their crossing networks since 2005.

983 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:01:29pm

re: #980 LudwigVanQuixote

Speaking of which we should have you come down to the DC area... The GF and I are going to throw a shindig in the near future and your woofer can play with my woofers.

NTTAWWT/

984 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:01:41pm

re: #978 Aceofwhat?

it gets better after you read his rants about corporate america owning the politicans through and through.

the dissonance is strong with this one...

Well corporate America does own quite a few of the politicians through and though on both sides of the aisle.

I suppose a broken clock is correct at least twice a day.

985 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:02:24pm

re: #983 Aceofwhat?

NTTAWWT/

? OK I don't know that one.

986 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:02:25pm

I'm not even sure what started this whole thing. I just, out of nowhere, was accused of being a con-man.

I wonder how any of you would feel if a bunch of strangers started hurling seriously libelous accusations against you? Ones that weren't in the least bit true.

987 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:02:27pm

re: #973 Sigma_x

And I can guarantee you you wouldn't say that shit to my face, unless you wanted to get your head popped off like a bottle cap.

I can guarantee that I would say anything to your face that I say to you here. Including reciting a scathing skaldic mocking poem in front of your girlfriend and all your drinking buddies.

988 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:03:28pm

re: #986 Sigma_x

I know what I'd do. I'd leave and never come back.

989 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:03:29pm

re: #987 Cato the Elder

I can guarantee that I would say anything to your face that I say to you here. Including reciting a scathing skaldic mocking poem in front of your girlfriend and all your drinking buddies.

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to the guy who keeps calling me a con-man.

Why do you feel the need to insert yourself into the mix?

990 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:03:53pm

re: #980 LudwigVanQuixote

Speaking of which we should have you come down to the DC area... The GF and I are going to throw a shindig in the near future and your woofer can play with my woofers.

You have my email, right?

991 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:03:54pm

re: #977 Cato the Elder

Only if you promise to come to my toga party.

Lol Cato...

992 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:04:22pm

re: #976 Liberal Classic

Cue the internet tough guy. He will e-kick your iButt.

Yep. did i mention that i was 6'8", 275lbs, and can bench-press a VW?

993 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:04:28pm

re: #990 Cato the Elder

You have my email, right?

I think I do.

994 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:04:46pm

I'll bet not one of you can even state with any certainty what it is I did that managed to piss everyone off.

Because I can't think of anything, other than me and Walter getting into it yesterday.

995 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:04:56pm

re: #985 LudwigVanQuixote

? OK I don't know that one.

"not that there's anything wrong with that"

from Seinfeld? does that help...?

996 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:05:47pm

re: #991 Summer

Lol Cato...

Actually, just because it will vex Cato, would you be my blog girlfriend? Ice got taken and all...

997 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:05:52pm

re: #989 Sigma_x

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to the guy who keeps calling me a con-man.

Why do you feel the need to insert yourself into the mix?

Because your replies usually give me girly giggle-fits. I like that in a con-man.

998 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:06:10pm

re: #994 Sigma_x

I'll bet not one of you can even state with any certainty what it is I did that managed to piss everyone off.

Because I can't think of anything, other than me and Walter getting into it yesterday.

"Walter and I"

999 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:06:54pm

re: #997 Cato the Elder

Because your replies usually give me girly giggle-fits. I like that in a con-man.

Ouch, remind me not to piss you off for real.

1000 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:07:14pm

re: #994 Sigma_x

I'll bet not one of you can even state with any certainty what it is I did that managed to piss everyone off.

Because I can't think of anything, other than me and Walter getting into it yesterday.

We could explain it to you, but you wouldn't understand. Poor thing.

It didn't start with you and Walter, of that you can be certain.

1001 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:07:16pm

re: #994 Sigma_x

I'll bet not one of you can even state with any certainty what it is I did that managed to piss everyone off.

Because I can't think of anything, other than me and Walter getting into it yesterday.

I can state what you did: You flung a bunch of insults around and generally acted like a paranoid jerk. We don't like that much around here.

1002 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:08:23pm

re: #973 Sigma_x

... And how you could tell whether or not it's a margin account is beyond me, unless you're a psychic. There's nothing on the balance page of an account that would indicate whether or not the trader has a margin account.

...

Lol, you really have no clue about the business you claim expertise in, do you? Hint: no I'm not psychic.

You've admitted, and detailed, Fraud, Tax Evasion, Perjury, and a scam to evade SEC rules which are specifically intended to protect the gullible from people like you. Lucky for you, you post anonymously.

1003 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:08:25pm

Don't mess with Cato. You'll lose. Big time.

1004 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:08:59pm

re: #996 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, just because it will vex Cato, would you be my blog girlfriend? Ice got taken and all...

OK, Summer - time to choose. Me, or Ludwig?

Pistols at dawn!

1005 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:09:02pm

re: #1001 Dark_Falcon

I can state what you did: You flung a bunch of insults around and generally acted like a paranoid jerk. We don't like that much around here.

"Flung a bunch of insults around?"

Just totally unprovoked, right? Out of nowhere. I just came out of nowhere and started flinging insults around.

Yeah, that sounds like something I'd do. It's almost as if I just said "fuck you" to someone out of nowhere, over nothing.

1006 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:09:12pm

re: #994 Sigma_x

I'll bet not one of you can even state with any certainty what it is I did that managed to piss everyone off.

Because I can't think of anything, other than me and Walter getting into it yesterday.

i'm disgusted every time you respond to sarcasm with invective and pretend like you're the one who was offended...

i'm disgusted that you rail on "corporate america" while simultaneously defending your use of "dirty tricks" so that you can "keep the playing field level"...

i'm disgusted that you actually thought someone hacked into your feeble little twitter party...

basically, it's become clear that it is impossible to have a balanced, insult-free conversation with you.

1007 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:09:22pm

re: #994 Sigma_x

I'll bet not one of you can even state with any certainty what it is I did that managed to piss everyone off.

Because I can't think of anything, other than me and Walter getting into it yesterday.

A guy went to a doctor and said, "I broke my arm in two places" and the doctor responded, "Well, stop going to those places"

1008 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:09:35pm

re: #998 Summer

"Walter and I"

Lol, and he was attacking Walter's status as a writer.

1009 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:10:46pm

re: #1008 Bagua

Lol, and he was attacking Walter's status as a writer.

I don't pretend to be a writer. That's the difference.

I'm still waiting to hear your explanation as to how I qualify as a con-man?

1010 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:11:59pm

re: #1006 Aceofwhat?

i'm disgusted every time you respond to sarcasm with invective and pretend like you're the one who was offended...

i'm disgusted that you rail on "corporate america" while simultaneously defending your use of "dirty tricks" so that you can "keep the playing field level"...

i'm disgusted that you actually thought someone hacked into your feeble little twitter party...

basically, it's become clear that it is impossible to have a balanced, insult-free conversation with you.

So Walter was just being sarcastic when he came out of nowhere and said "fuck you" to me? Is that what that was.

It's pretty clear that you people can dish it out, but you sure as shit can't take it.

1011 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:12:27pm

re: #1004 Cato the Elder

OK, Summer - time to choose. Me, or Ludwig?

Pistols at dawn!

Cato, swords. I use swords. Everyone here knows I am a sword geek. I am so insulted that I choose a truly evil weapon... Palin videos at dawn, first one to cry for mercy to make them stop loses.

1012 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:12:31pm

re: #1005 Sigma_x

"Flung a bunch of insults around?"

Just totally unprovoked, right? Out of nowhere. I just came out of nowhere and started flinging insults around.

Yeah, that sounds like something I'd do. It's almost as if I just said "fuck you" to someone out of nowhere, over nothing.

every single name you've called me was unprompted. not that i care. you'll notice i've spent my time ridiculing your positions rather than clutching my pearls.

but let's not pretend that the sky is green. i am sardonic. you are insulting. i don't care...until you want someone to believe that you're always provoked. At that point, the hypocrisy just stings the nostrils...it's a formidable scent...

1013 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:12:32pm

re: #1005 Sigma_x

Irrelevant. You were not insulted and you resported to throwing insults since you could not answer the charges against you and you are still flinging insults. Shape up or flounce off!

1014 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:13:36pm

re: #992 Aceofwhat?

Yep. did i mention that i was 6'8", 275lbs, and can bench-press a VW?

I thought Cato said you were a grrrrl NTTIAWWT

1015 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:13:53pm

re: #1003 Varek Raith

Don't mess with Cato. You'll lose. Big time.

Mess with you? Why, I wouldn't dream of it.

Unless you insult SPQR, that is.

1016 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:14:04pm

re: #1004 Cato the Elder

OK, Summer - time to choose. Me, or Ludwig?

Pistols at dawn!

You're both being really silly...I don't have an "LGF/Blog/Twitter" BF...

Anyway, Cato is so intellectually hot. Plus he's an older guy, and that kinda does turn me on, Ludwig.... =)

1017 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:15:31pm

re: #1010 Sigma_x

So Walter was just being sarcastic when he came out of nowhere and said "fuck you" to me? Is that what that was.

It's pretty clear that you people can dish it out, but you sure as shit can't take it.

no, fine, tell him to fuck off. respond in kind, if you can't ape a better person like DF who consistently rises above it.

want to discuss any of the other bald-truth points that i raised?

1018 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:16:33pm

re: #1013 Dark_Falcon

Irrelevant. You were not insulted and you resported to throwing insults since you could not answer the charges against you and you are still flinging insults. Shape up or flounce off!

What in the fuck are you talking about? What do you mean, "I was not insulted?" So you obviously don't classify Walter coming out of nowhere and saying "fuck you" to me for no reason whatsoever as an insult? Or was that sarcasm?

And what charges, exactly? What is it I'm being charged with? I'm curious.

I think what it is is that you people spend all day every day calling anybody with whom you disagree "stupid." And that, right there, is your whole life.

1019 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:17:26pm

re: #1018 Sigma_x

You sound...obsessed.

1020 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:17:26pm

re: #1016 Summer

You're both being really silly...I don't have an "LGF/Blog/Twitter" BF...

Anyway, Cato is so intellectually hot. Plus he's an older guy, and that kinda does turn me on, Ludwig... =)

Hey I would never impugn Cato's brilliance. He truly is - and if you dig on older guys then I certainly can't complain... However, theoretical physics doesn't count as intellectual? Ouch!

And with that he realizes that building that neutron death ray was not so immoral after all!

1021 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:17:36pm

I'd seriously like to see how any of you would respond to being called a con-man.

1022 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:17:57pm

re: #1014 LudwigVanQuixote

I thought Cato said you were a grrrl NTTIAWWT

Heh. I don't mind being hit on by any gender...a compliment is a compliment...but i'm quite male.

Of course, now i've ruined the opportunity to attend Cato's toga party and completely disappoint upon my entrance/

1023 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:18:03pm

re: #1019 Varek Raith

You sound...obsessed.

And you sound... like an idiot.

1024 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:18:57pm

re: #1020 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey I would never impugn Cato's brilliance. He truly is - and if you dig on older guys then I certainly can't complain... However, theoretical physics doesn't count as intellectual? Ouch!

And with that he realizes that building that neutron death ray was not so immoral after all!

Ooh you're into theoretical physics? Ok, now you have my attention as well.... =)

Considering I made a really famous particle chamber art piece in SL called "String Theory".

Not bad for a blonde, right?

1025 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:19:06pm

re: #1023 Sigma_x

Awesome.
:)

1026 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:19:09pm

re: #1011 LudwigVanQuixote

Cato, swords. I use swords. Everyone here knows I am a sword geek. I am so insulted that I choose a truly evil weapon... Palin videos at dawn, first one to cry for mercy to make them stop loses.

guns are so uncivilized...

1027 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:19:47pm

re: #1010 Sigma_x

So Walter was just being sarcastic when he came out of nowhere and said "fuck you" to me? Is that what that was.

It's pretty clear that you people can dish it out, but you sure as shit can't take it.

This from the "man" who when challenged in his pronunciamentos immediately reaches for the epithets "simpleton", "idiot", and the like.

You really are most entertaining in your hyper-sensitivity and pomposity. You waltzed in here as though you expected to be greeted as God's gift to LGF, and your butt has been hurtin' ever since you first got called on your bullshit.

Keep it up. We've needed a real motley fool around here for some time now.

1028 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:20:20pm

re: #1021 Sigma_x

I'd seriously like to see how any of you would respond to being called a con-man.

Well, i wouldn't respond with "sure, i help people mislead the SEC" or with "playing dirty is the only way to level the field".

so at least you know how i wouldn't respond...

1029 Jadespring  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:20:29pm

re: #1021 Sigma_x

I'd seriously like to see how any of you would respond to being called a con-man.

Here's me responding......

1030 ShaunP  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:21:17pm

re: #1021 Sigma_x

I'd seriously like to see how any of you would respond to being called a con-man.

ShaunP's response to being called a con-man:
"I have a lightly used bridge you can have for a song..."

1031 Jadespring  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:22:12pm

re: #1030 ShaunP

ShaunP's response to being called a con-man:
"I have a lightly used bridge you can have for a song..."

Does it traverse my swampland?

1032 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:22:45pm

re: #1024 Summer

Ooh you're into theoretical physics? Ok, now you have my attention as well... =)

Considering I made a really famous particle chamber art piece in SL called "String Theory".

Not bad for a blonde, right?

Lol... I don't know whether to say that's it Cato, she's mine or wonder if feigning not knowing that I am the resident physics guy is the best main gauche I have ever been delivered.

Definitely out of my league then. Cato, she's a subtle one. You Romans are into that sort of thrill of passion accentuated by a slight threat of assassination thing.

She's all yours!

1033 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:23:14pm

re: #1021 Sigma_x

I'd seriously like to see how any of you would respond to being called a con-man.

I would seriously shrug it off.

This is an anonymous blog. Sort of. A lot of people know who a lot of other people are.

I've been called far worse, and by golly, I couldn't care less.

But if you don't like "con-man", how does "amoral, opportunistic vulture capitalist" grab you?

1034 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:23:46pm

re: #1026 Aceofwhat?

guns are so uncivilized...

Random too. The sword is an elegant weapon from a more civilized age.

1035 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:24:19pm

re: #1033 Cato the Elder

I would seriously shrug it off.

This is an anonymous blog. Sort of. A lot of people know who a lot of other people are.

I've been called far worse, and by golly, I couldn't care less.

But if you don't like "con-man", how does "amoral, opportunistic vulture capitalist" grab you?

Now THAT I can live with!

But if the determining factor on being all of what you called me is simply to buy and sell and then buy again the same stock within a 24 hr period, I think you might be reaching a little.

1036 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:25:20pm

Alright, back to making skimpy outfits in Maya. I'll chat in SL if any of you IM me but for now, I have to close this window to free up some RAM while I render textures. Tho I am on Gtalk if you wanna chat, on my droid. Love my droid. Other than that, Cato and Luddy, you can hit on me in SL if you ever come over. I'm lots of fun! =)

Have fun scalping the nub with the big mouth while I'm workin' on stuff.

1037 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:26:02pm

re: #1034 LudwigVanQuixote

Random too. The sword is an elegant weapon from a more civilized age.

that's why i play tennis. it's a duel.

1038 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:26:07pm

re: #1036 Summer

Alright, back to making skimpy outfits in Maya. I'll chat in SL if any of you IM me but for now, I have to close this window to free up some RAM while I render textures. Tho I am on Gtalk if you wanna chat, on my droid. Love my droid. Other than that, Cato and Luddy, you can hit on me in SL if you ever come over. I'm lots of fun! =)

Have fun scalping the nub with the big mouth while I'm workin' on stuff.

SL?

1039 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:26:44pm

re: #1035 Sigma_x

Now THAT I can live with!

But if the determining factor on being all of what you called me is simply to buy and sell and then buy again the same stock within a 24 hr period, I think you might be reaching a little.

is such a practice legal or not?

1040 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:27:24pm

re: #1018 Sigma_x

What in the fuck are you talking about? What do you mean, "I was not insulted?" So you obviously don't classify Walter coming out of nowhere and saying "fuck you" to me for no reason whatsoever as an insult? Or was that sarcasm?

And what charges, exactly? What is it I'm being charged with? I'm curious.

I think what it is is that you people spend all day every day calling anybody with whom you disagree "stupid." And that, right there, is your whole life.

Really? Let's see; I often disagree with Obdicut, but I never call him stupid. I sometimes disagree with Ludwig and Cato, but I'd never confuse either one of them with a stupid person. And what about Jimmah and Iceweasel? Nope no taunts of stupidity there. Your charge doesn't stand up to empirical research.

1041 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:28:04pm

re: #1037 Aceofwhat?

that's why i play tennis. it's a duel.

Beating people to death with a tennis racket sounds gratifying, but it doesn't work. Nah,

Swords for me.

Or perhaps 4 point correlation functions.

1042 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:28:06pm

re: #1038 LudwigVanQuixote

SL?

heh. yep, she's out of your league;) guess you'll have to stick with She Who Must Be Obeyed...

1043 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:28:45pm

re: #1039 Aceofwhat?

is such a practice legal or not?

All this feigned righteous indignation over helping people circumvent the in-and-out rule is a little much, if you ask me.

I got called a con-man over and over again, and when I asked bagua to specify how, exactly, I qualify as a con-man, if I don't charge anyone anything at any time, he disappears.

No, it's not "legal." But you know what the "punishment" is for violating it? You get a response from the SEC warning you against violating it again within a 90 day period. And if you violate it again? You get your account put on restriction for 90 days.

Not exactly robbing a bank. But if it help your argument that it somehow makes me a con-man, you do what you gotta do.

1044 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:28:53pm

re: #1034 LudwigVanQuixote

Random too. The sword is an elegant weapon from a more civilized age.

I don't know about that. I'd hardly call a gladius elegant, but it was very brutally effective.

1045 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:29:06pm

re: #1038 LudwigVanQuixote

Second Life. Check my blog. Summer Seale in Second Life. I'm a creator there. Seeya! =)

1046 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:29:57pm

re: #1041 LudwigVanQuixote

Beating people to death with a tennis racket sounds gratifying, but it doesn't work. Nah,

Swords for me.

Or perhaps 4 point correlation functions.

it's about practicality. a tennis duel lasts longer than a sword duel, and the loser remains available (i.e. alive) for a potential rematch...

1047 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:30:24pm

re: #1033 Cato the Elder

I would seriously shrug it off.

This is an anonymous blog. Sort of. A lot of people know who a lot of other people are.

I've been called far worse, and by golly, I couldn't care less.

But if you don't like "con-man", how does "amoral, opportunistic vulture capitalist" grab you?

It is inadequate, any trader could earn that title. sigma-x not only details and admits to fraud, perjury, tax evasion and securities violations, he actively recruits and advises his followers how to do the same.

Posting a phony account with a balance of $11 million and working 6 months to develop twitter followers suggests some sort of confidence con is in operation.

1048 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:32:12pm

re: #1047 Bagua

It is inadequate, any trader could earn that title. sigma-x not only details and admits to fraud, perjury, tax evasion and securities violations, he actively recruits and advises his followers how to do the same.

Posting a phony account with a balance of $11 million and working 6 months to develop twitter followers suggests some sort of confidence con is in operation.

A "phony account?" "Perjury?" "Tax fraud?" (I pay more in taxes on an annual basis than you've probably ever made in your entire life.) Where do you come up with this shit?

Those are some pretty serious allegations there, chief.

Why don't you go eat a box of rusty dicks?

1049 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:33:07pm

re: #1022 Aceofwhat?

Heh. I don't mind being hit on by any gender...a compliment is a compliment...but i'm quite male.

Of course, now i've ruined the opportunity to attend Cato's toga party and completely disappoint upon my entrance/

You missed the opportunity of a life time to pull a "toga surprise".

1050 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:33:15pm

re: #1047 Bagua

Hey, Bagua, I'm curious - do you even have a job?

1051 ShaunP  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:33:22pm

re: #1048 Sigma_x

A "phony account?" "Perjury?" "Tax fraud?" (I pay more in taxes on an annual basis than you've probably ever made in your entire life.) Where do you come up with this shit?

Those are some pretty serious allegations there, chief.

Why don't you go eat a box of rusty dicks?

Funny you didn't mention "securities violations"...

1052 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:33:28pm

re: #1043 Sigma_x

All this feigned righteous indignation over helping people circumvent the in-and-out rule is a little much, if you ask me.

I got called a con-man over and over again, and when I asked bagua to specify how, exactly, I qualify as a con-man, if I don't charge anyone anything at any time, he disappears.

No, it's not "legal." But you know what the "punishment" is for violating it? You get a response from the SEC warning you against violating it again within a 90 day period. And if you violate it again? You get your account put on restriction for 90 days.

Not exactly robbing a bank. But if it help your argument that it somehow makes me a con-man, you do what you gotta do.

ah. i see. so it's only important to obey the rules in society which carry a large enough penalty to make one leery of being caught. got it.

note that the folks who might share some blame for this recent financial meltdown broke fewer rules than the one you're casually brushing off in your pursuit to "level the playing field".

rarely is hypocrisy delivered in such a high-grade concentration. if this were uranium, we could stop worrying and learn to love the bomb...

1053 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:33:56pm

re: #1043 Sigma_x

All this feigned righteous indignation over helping people circumvent the in-and-out rule is a little much, if you ask me.

I got called a con-man over and over again, and when I asked bagua to specify how, exactly, I qualify as a con-man, if I don't charge anyone anything at any time, he disappears.

No, it's not "legal." But you know what the "punishment" is for violating it? You get a response from the SEC warning you against violating it again within a 90 day period. And if you violate it again? You get your account put on restriction for 90 days.

Not exactly robbing a bank. But if it help your argument that it somehow makes me a con-man, you do what you gotta do.

It's not your blog.
You're here pimping something that is illegal, on a blog owned by Charles Johnson, who is the name that everyone knows, and if anyone will get a letter or a visit, it will be Charles Johnson, not you.

Don't you understand that?

Not to mention, it's just unethical to promote illegal activity, regardless of whether the outcome is jail or a letter. It's just wrong. Do you have any ethics or morals whatsoever?

1054 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:35:31pm

re: #1049 Nimed

You missed the opportunity of a life time to pull a "toga surprise".

i know. i'm kicking myself.

1055 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:35:49pm

re: #1053 reine.de.tout

It's not your blog.
You're here pimping something that is illegal, on a blog owned by Charles Johnson, who is the name that everyone knows, and if anyone will get a letter or a visit, it will be Charles Johnson, not you.

Don't you understand that?

Not to mention, it's just unethical to promote illegal activity, regardless of whether the outcome is jail or a letter. It's just wrong. Do you have any ethics or morals whatsoever?

WHAT?!!!! "Pimping something that's illegal on Charle's blog?!""

WTF are you talking about?>!

Alright, it's official - you people are seriously unhinged.

1056 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:36:00pm

re: #1053 reine.de.tout

It's not your blog.
You're here pimping something that is illegal, on a blog owned by Charles Johnson, who is the name that everyone knows, and if anyone will get a letter or a visit, it will be Charles Johnson, not you.

Don't you understand that?

Not to mention, it's just unethical to promote illegal activity, regardless of whether the outcome is jail or a letter. It's just wrong. Do you have any ethics or morals whatsoever?

His morality is in telling himself that all the big crooks are doing it, so he's going to level the playing field and do it too.

His fig-leaf is that he claims to donate to charity.

Well, so did Bernie Madoff.

1057 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:36:01pm

re: #1043 Sigma_x

You also detailed perjury and tax evasion and conspiracy. These are very real crimes as many of your fellow crooks sitting in federal penitentiary will attest to. What is worse, you are actively advising and recruiting gullible victims to commit the same violations and crimes that you have done. That you do not even understand what you have admitted to demonstrates you are all wet, and way out of your depth.

1058 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:36:30pm

re: #1050 Sigma_x

Do you even have a life, flouncebait?

1059 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:36:49pm

re: #1048 Sigma_x

A "phony account?" "Perjury?" "Tax fraud?" (I pay more in taxes on an annual basis than you've probably ever made in your entire life.) Where do you come up with this shit?

Those are some pretty serious allegations there, chief.

Why don't you go eat a box of rusty dicks?

OK this is entertainment. Randomly claiming on the web that you make a shit ton of money (and hey, that may even be true, I don't know or care) is vaguely more pathetic than claiming you have an enormous unit.

It's a little shocking to see you say such crap.

1060 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:37:07pm

re: #1055 Sigma_x

WHAT?!!! "Pimping something that's illegal on Charle's blog?!""

WTF are you talking about?>!

Alright, it's official - you people are seriously unhinged.

you just admitted that it was illegal. how can you be confused so soon afterwards?

1061 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:37:26pm

re: #1053 reine.de.tout

It's not your blog.
You're here pimping something that is illegal, on a blog owned by Charles Johnson, who is the name that everyone knows, and if anyone will get a letter or a visit, it will be Charles Johnson, not you.

Don't you understand that?

Not to mention, it's just unethical to promote illegal activity, regardless of whether the outcome is jail or a letter. It's just wrong. Do you have any ethics or morals whatsoever?

I wasn't "promoting" anything at all. People went to my blog (thanks, by the way - I could use the hits) and quoted some piece by me word for word in a feeble attempt to illustrate just how amoral and crooked I am.

I didn't post or promote anything.

1062 Jadespring  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:37:43pm

re: #1043 Sigma_x

All this feigned righteous indignation over helping people circumvent the in-and-out rule is a little much, if you ask me.

I got called a con-man over and over again, and when I asked bagua to specify how, exactly, I qualify as a con-man, if I don't charge anyone anything at any time, he disappears.

No, it's not "legal." But you know what the "punishment" is for violating it? You get a response from the SEC warning you against violating it again within a 90 day period. And if you violate it again? You get your account put on restriction for 90 days.

Not exactly robbing a bank. But if it help your argument that it somehow makes me a con-man, you do what you gotta do.

Oh okay then. Not con-man. I'll take "What is a self righteous, petty,white collar criminal for 1000 Alex?"

1063 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:38:09pm

re: #1055 Sigma_x

WHAT?!!! "Pimping something that's illegal on Charle's blog?!""

WTF are you talking about?>!

Alright, it's official - you people are seriously unhinged.

Uh, no.
You are.
Sitting here telling people how to get around a law, all the while justifying it as being OK because, well, gee, the penalty is just a letter.
That's pimping.
And it's YOU who are seriously unhinged.

1064 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:38:14pm

re: #1056 Cato the Elder

His morality is in telling himself that all the big crooks are doing it, so he's going to level the playing field and do it too.

His fig-leaf is that he claims to donate to charity.

Well, so did Bernie Madoff.

while railing against "corporate interests", mind you. pure-grade stuff, there...

1065 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:39:25pm

re: #1042 Aceofwhat?

heh. yep, she's out of your league;) guess you'll have to stick with She Who Must Be Obeyed...

Speaking of which, I am very much considering asking her to marry me.

1066 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:39:53pm

re: #1059 LudwigVanQuixote

OK this is entertainment. Randomly claiming on the web that you make a shit ton of money (and hey, that may even be true, I don't know or care) is vaguely more pathetic than claiming you have an enormous unit.

It's a little shocking to see you say such crap.

Oh my god - see this is where it gets surreal. Bagua was mindlessly, baselessly claiming over and over again that I, "didn't even have $25K" in my account. Using some twisted logic that only made sense to him to show what a "con-man" I am.

So I posted a screen shot of one of my accounts, in an effort to try and salvage some credibility.

That's a far cry from randomly claiming on the web.... blah blah blah.

You guys just want to be right so badly you stopped making sense a while ago.

1067 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:40:57pm

re: #1065 LudwigVanQuixote

If it feels right, just so right you can't believe you're not doing it right now, then do it.

It was a very happy moment for me. Even though I wasn't in any doubt about her answer.

1068 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:41:23pm

re: #1066 Sigma_x

Oh my god - see this is where it gets surreal. Bagua was mindlessly, baselessly claiming over and over again that I, "didn't even have $25K" in my account. Using some twisted logic that only made sense to him to show what a "con-man" I am.

So I posted a screen shot of one of my accounts, in an effort to try and salvage some credibility.

That's a far cry from randomly claiming on the web... blah blah blah.

You guys just want to be right so badly you stopped making sense a while ago.

No.
The problem is that you registered at LGF, which is full of seriously smart people who don't fall for things.

And you've been found out, called out, and you don't like it.

1069 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:41:46pm

re: #1065 LudwigVanQuixote

Speaking of which, I am very much considering asking her to marry me.

that's awesome. i'm 10 years into my marriage and there's no looking back...if she's the right one, lock it down.

my best wishes for a happy ending no matter what your eventual decision is...

1070 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:42:31pm

re: #1066 Sigma_x

What Bagua was saying was that you were advocating illegal activity, a charge you have not refuted, preferring to loose a stream of invective instead.

1071 Jadespring  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:42:56pm

re: #1066 Sigma_x

Oh my god - see this is where it gets surreal. Bagua was mindlessly, baselessly claiming over and over again that I, "didn't even have $25K" in my account. Using some twisted logic that only made sense to him to show what a "con-man" I am.

So I posted a screen shot of one of my accounts, in an effort to try and salvage some credibility.

That's a far cry from randomly claiming on the web... blah blah blah.

You guys just want to be right so badly you stopped making sense a while ago.

I admit to doing the illegal and everyone is bitching at me. Waaahhh
I don't know why? Waaahhhh They just don't git me. Waahhh

Get a friggin baby soother or something.

1072 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:43:05pm

re: #1067 Obdicut

If it feels right, just so right you can't believe you're not doing it right now, then do it.

It was a very happy moment for me. Even though I wasn't in any doubt about her answer.

Yeah... massive mazel tov to you on that.

It is not that I am a commitment phobe. It is that we need to have some rather serious talks about kids and future plans and all that sort of thing. But the desire to do so is there.

1073 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:43:34pm

re: #1070 Dark_Falcon

What Bagua was saying was that you were advocating illegal activity, a charge you have not refuted, preferring to loose a stream of invective instead.

and to his credit, Bagua has not responded in kind.

1074 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:43:45pm

re: #1048 Sigma_x

A "phony account?" "Perjury?" "Tax fraud?" (I pay more in taxes on an annual basis than you've probably ever made in your entire life.) Where do you come up with this shit?

Those are some pretty serious allegations there, chief.

Why don't you go eat a box of rusty dicks?

Amigo, like the clever trader you are, maybe it's time to accept your losses and move on - meaning give it a rest for a while.

Some of the nicest and most respected people here got off to bad starts on LGF, but time and civility aiding, they're become valued members of the forum. An apology when and where it's merited and the patience to suss out and respect the prevalent social morays can go a long way in easing the tensions and lowering the flash-points.

I suppose I shouldn't get involved, but I like to see things work out for people. Since you haven't flounced yet, I presume you'd like to stick around. If that's so, then please accept my friendly advice and let things ride and rest until the dust clears.

1075 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:44:19pm

re: #1066 Sigma_x

Why on earth did you think a screenshot of some account would prove anything to anyone? Are you really that naive?

1076 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:44:56pm

re: #1072 LudwigVanQuixote

PIMF

Yeah! massive mazel tov to you on that!

It is not that I am a commitment phobe. It is that we need to have some rather serious talks about kids and future plans and all that sort of thing. But the desire to do so is there.

1077 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:45:27pm

re: #1074 ryannon

Amigo, like the clever trader you are, maybe it's time to accept your losses and move on - meaning give it a rest for a while.

Some of the nicest and most respected people here got off to bad starts on LGF, but time and civility aiding, they're become valued members of the forum. An apology when and where it's merited and the patience to suss out and respect the prevalent social morays can go a long way in easing the tensions and lowering the flash-points.

I suppose I shouldn't get involved, but I like to see things work out for people. Since you haven't flounced yet, I presume you'd like to stick around. If that's so, then please accept my friendly advice and let things ride and rest until the dust clears.

Upding for "social morays". I thought those eels were vicious loners.

1078 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:45:58pm

re: #1074 ryannon

Wisely and kindly said.

Many people in this thread have said things as foolish as you have, Sigma_X. The key is to put down the shovel. You don't even have to admit you were wrong. Just stop the flailing.

1079 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:47:20pm

re: #1077 Cato the Elder

Upding for "social morays". I thought those eels were vicious loners.

O tempura, O morays.

1080 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:47:36pm

re: #1072 LudwigVanQuixote

That's responsible of you. I know that whatever direction this takes, you'll handle it with grace and class.

Oh, and my friend has agreed to play me down the aisle, so my bride and I will be married to Balkan klezmer music. He's an accordionist.

1081 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:47:53pm

Hay guys what's happening in this thread I heard it was wacky


Here is an Accept song in honor of that twitter thing

1082 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:48:18pm

re: #1078 Obdicut

Wisely and kindly said.

Many people in this thread have said things as foolish as you have, Sigma_X. The key is to put down the shovel. You don't even have to admit you were wrong. Just stop the flailing.

Did I get a little carried away in my fun?

1083 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:49:01pm

Can we get back to pointing out how the GOP has gone batshit crazy and entered a dimension of stupid, dangerous and repellent so profound that simply watching them speak runs the risk of inflicting brain damage?

1084 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:49:40pm

re: #1080 Obdicut

That's responsible of you. I know that whatever direction this takes, you'll handle it with grace and class.

Oh, and my friend has agreed to play me down the aisle, so my bride and I will be married to Balkan klezmer music. He's an accordionist.

I really am happy for you and thank you.

1085 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:50:10pm

ok guys, I gots to go!

1086 [deleted]  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:50:31pm
1087 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:50:48pm

re: #1082 Varek Raith

You not only can't punch anyone over the interwebs, you can't force-choke them either.

When Vader was talking to that one dude he just fell suddenly ill by total coincidence.

1088 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:51:20pm

re: #1080 Obdicut

That's responsible of you. I know that whatever direction this takes, you'll handle it with grace and class.

Oh, and my friend has agreed to play me down the aisle, so my bride and I will be married to Balkan klezmer music. He's an accordionist.

cool. i had a friend play for us, too - it was 100x better than recorded music.

1089 ryannon  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:51:25pm

re: #1077 Cato the Elder

Upding for "social morays". I thought those eels were vicious loners.

And more's the pity of it.

1090 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:52:09pm

re: #1083 LudwigVanQuixote

Can we get back to pointing out how some of the the GOP has gone batshit crazy and entered a dimension of stupid, dangerous and repellent so profound that simply watching them speak runs the risk of inflicting brain damage?

ftfy!

1091 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:52:19pm

re: #1053 reine.de.tout

Not to mention, it's just unethical to promote illegal activity, regardless of whether the outcome is jail or a letter. It's just wrong. Do you have any ethics or morals whatsoever?

welll...

Also, there's this blog I frequent, where speeding is not only advocated, it's strategized. ;-)

(this isn't my thread, just pointing out that illegal doesn't mean immoral or unethical)

1092 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:52:21pm

re: #1085 LudwigVanQuixote

ok guys, I gots to go!

Have a good evening, Ludwig! That's for the good conversation and the great troll smackdown.

1093 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:52:43pm

re: #1086 Sigma_x

Even if you are living there, with your money and your girlfriend and all, I'd still much rather be moving to New York with my lovely and brilliant girl. Sure, I'm very worried about money-- I've never really had financial security. But I still have a very, very, very happy life. Books are pretty cheap, and I'm not that materialistic.

I hope your next attempt at socialization works out better for you. This is always sad to see.

1094 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:54:14pm

re: #1086 Sigma_x

Flounce!

1095 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:55:00pm

re: #1086 Sigma_x

What a boring flounce.

1096 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:55:53pm

re: #1093 Obdicut

Even if you are living there, with your money and your girlfriend and all, I'd still much rather be moving to New York with my lovely and brilliant girl. Sure, I'm very worried about money-- I've never really had financial security. But I still have a very, very, very happy life. Books are pretty cheap, and I'm not that materialistic.

I hope your next attempt at socialization works out better for you. This is always sad to see.

No, not a flounce. Sadly. Just a goodnight gift.

You hope my next attempt at socialization works out better for me? Well, that sweet of you.

Good luck with you and your girl. Seriously.

1097 Macha  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:57:07pm

re: #981 Sigma_x

I suppose to someone who's probably never made more than $14 an hour in his life, it might all seem very scary to you, have you thinking that it must be a fraud, all this making real money.

I'm still waiting on your answer on how exactly I'm conning people. Out of what, I ask? That's a pretty serious accusation.

Your response to being called a con man speaks for itself. There is no one more outraged than a thief when he is called a thief. Frankly, your need to feel adequate by all of the bragging and low blow putdowns you blow forth is wearing pretty thin.

1098 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:57:28pm

re: #1095 Bagua

What a boring flounce.

You never bothered to answer my question - do you even have a job? Or is your job simply sitting around in your underwear all day in your mom's basement pointing out to everyone how much smarter you are than them?

Does it pay well?

1099 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:58:14pm

re: #1086 Sigma_x

I've been "found out, called out?" Found out as what, exactly? And by whom?

Oh yeah, a "bunch of seriously smart people." People who are clearly so smart they spend the bulk of their sad, lonely lives obsessively, relentlessly chatting on a message board on the internet to complete strangers, insulting anyone they deem an "outsider" and calling anyone with whom they disagree "stupid", proving to anyone and everyone just how clever and biting their words can be. (Ouch, it hurts! Make it stop!)

Whereas me - hypocrite, ol' con-man me - is just a 38 yr old guy with a drop dead gorgeous wife, living in a beautiful waterfront condo in Miami, who makes a shit load of money.

What on Earth am I doing wasting my time arguing with you people? I should have my head examined.

As a parting gift, this is for you all, and with that I bid you farewell, so long, auf wiedersehen, adieu,... adieu, to you and you and you...

Flounce, or time-out?

Somehow I don't believe that this one will be able to stay away from "people who are clearly so smart they spend the bulk of their sad, lonely lives obsessively, relentlessly chatting on a message board", no matter how hard he tries.

But the ungrammatical pathos of his parting boast ("whereas me [sic] - hypocrite, ol' con-man me [sic] - is [sic] just a 38 yr old guy with a drop dead gorgeous wife, living in a beautiful waterfront condo in Miami, who makes a shit load of money") had a kind of poetry to it, did it not?

1100 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:58:50pm

re: #1097 Macha

Your response to being called a con man speaks for itself. There is no one more outraged than a thief when he is called a thief. Frankly, your need to feel adequate by all of the bragging and low blow putdowns you blow forth is wearing pretty thin.

Wait - so your proof that I'm a con-man is simply because I took offense at being a con-man?

Why that's brilliant. Bravo. Good work, detective.

1101 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:59:25pm

re: #1100 Sigma_x

Wait - so your proof that I'm a con-man is simply because I took offense at being a con-man?

Why that's brilliant. Bravo. Good work, detective.

Sorry, that I took offense at being called a con-man.

(Speed typing over here makes for mistakes.)

1102 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:59:43pm

re: #1098 Sigma_x

You never bothered to answer my question - do you even have a job? Or is your job simply sitting around in your underwear all day in your mom's basement pointing out to everyone how much smarter you are than them?

Does it pay well?

Creative, you are not.

1103 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 4:59:57pm

re: #1091 WindUpBird

welll...

Also, there's this blog I frequent, where speeding is not only advocated, it's strategized. ;-)

(this isn't my thread, just pointing out that illegal doesn't mean immoral or unethical)

would it be immoral if you frequented that site but while at LGF, often railed about how speeding is an epidemic and a major source of what is wrong with society;)

1104 ShaunP  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:00:01pm

re: #1100 Sigma_x

Wait - so your proof that I'm a con-man is simply because I took offense at being a con-man?

Why that's brilliant. Bravo. Good work, detective.

The proof was where you admitted to being a thief. Your outrageous outrage was just icing...

1105 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:00:23pm

I'm waiting around for bagua to answer me as to whether or not he has a job before I shove off.

1106 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:00:33pm

re: #1096 Sigma_x

I don't really accept well-wishes from people who have said things as virulently nasty about me as you have.

Er, and how wasn't it a flounce, exactly? You say that you should have your head examined for arguing with us, so, um, you'll be back tomorrow to do it again?

That makes very little sense.

1107 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:01:29pm

re: #1106 Obdicut

I don't really accept well-wishes from people who have said things as virulently nasty about me as you have.

Er, and how wasn't it a flounce, exactly? You say that you should have your head examined for arguing with us, so, um, you'll be back tomorrow to do it again?

That makes very little sense.

I repeat....

1108 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:01:49pm

re: #1106 Obdicut

I don't really accept well-wishes from people who have said things as virulently nasty about me as you have.

Er, and how wasn't it a flounce, exactly? You say that you should have your head examined for arguing with us, so, um, you'll be back tomorrow to do it again?

That makes very little sense.

Like this picture!
Image: star-wars-darth-vader-sense.jpg

1109 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:02:26pm

re: #1098 Sigma_x

You're an ass who fouls blogs with insults and butthurt. You need a long timeout from all online social networking while you learn to treat people better.

1110 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:03:43pm

re: #1105 Sigma_x

I'm waiting around for bagua to answer me as to whether or not he has a job before I shove off.

Somehow I don't think Bagua of all people on this blog owes you any kind of explanation for anything.

1111 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:03:57pm
1112 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:05:34pm

re: #1108 Varek Raith

One of the very best pictures floating around the intertubes.

1113 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:05:36pm

re: #1086 Sigma_x

. . .
Whereas me - hypocrite, ol' con-man me - is just a 38 yr old guy with a drop dead gorgeous wife, living in a beautiful waterfront condo in Miami, who makes a shit load of money.

What on Earth am I doing wasting my time arguing with you people? I should have my head examined.
. . .


[Video]


You make a shitload of money?
Gee, good for you.

What are you doing wasting your time here?
That's a question only you can answer.

1114 Macha  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:05:52pm

re: #1100 Sigma_x

Wait - so your proof that I'm a con-man is simply because I took offense at being a con-man?

Why that's brilliant. Bravo. Good work, detective.

Well I could have speculated about the size of your dick. Usually guys who act as you have, have some issues in that dept.

1115 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:06:02pm

re: #1107 Sigma_x

Yes, you do.

1116 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:06:06pm

You know what's funny? What's funny is the people I manage to piss off the most are the right-wingers on this site. Coincidence? I'll leave that to you to decide.

(aside from obdicut - but he's so paranoid about getting on the wrong side of you old-timers here that he'll kiss just about any ass in order to be liked.)

But I just realized - aceofwhat, cato, dark_falcon, walter - you're all right-wingers.

I'm doing God's work here.

1117 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:07:49pm

re: #1113 reine.de.tout

You make a shitload of money?
Gee, good for you.

What are you doing wasting your time here?
That's a question only you can answer.

Two words
Superiority. Complex
/PhD, Internet Psychology

1118 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:08:00pm

Same old thing.

Sooner or later they bleed out the superiority complex: my wife is the prettiest; I make the most money; I have the best house; etc.

The narcissism is high with this one (as it is with most of this kind) and it shows in the words.

1119 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:08:09pm

re: #1109 Dark_Falcon

You're an ass who fouls blogs with insults and butthurt. You need a long timeout from all online social networking while you learn to treat people better.

And you're an ignorant, pompous ass who has a particularly nerdy nicname.

Dark_falcon?! Seriously?! You think I'm going to have my feelings hurt by a guy who goes around calling himself "dark falcon?!" Or give a shit about ANYTHING you have to say?!

That's hilarious. Dark Falcon.

1120 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:09:14pm

re: #1116 Sigma_x

Yes, Cato and Bagua both know me as a huge ass-kisser. GuanXII, too-- man, I always apologize so much when I offend that guy.
/

Dude, your version of reality is weird. What's weirder is that you expect anyone else to believe it.

1121 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:09:16pm

re: #1119 Sigma_x

And you're an ignorant, pompous ass who has a particularly nerdy nicname.

Dark_falcon?! Seriously?! You think I'm going to have my feelings hurt by a guy who goes around calling himself "dark falcon?!" Or give a shit about ANYTHING you have to say?!

That's hilarious. Dark Falcon.

Dude you are a standard deviation and that is not nerdy... Please chill.

1122 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:09:26pm

re: #1119 Sigma_x

You amuse me.
Make fun of my name next!
:)

1123 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:09:47pm

re: #1116 Sigma_x

You know what's funny? What's funny is the people I manage to piss off the most are the right-wingers on this site. Coincidence? I'll leave that to you to decide.

(aside from obdicut - but he's so paranoid about getting on the wrong side of you old-timers here that he'll kiss just about any ass in order to be liked.)

But I just realized - aceofwhat, cato, dark_falcon, walter - you're all right-wingers.

I'm doing God's work here.

You know what's funny? Good folks who lean left who are going to have to ask that you not be submitted as an example of the left.

But don't worry. I'm not pissed. A sneer with a tinge of disgust is the strongest thing you've elicited.

1124 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:10:01pm

re: #1122 Varek Raith

You amuse me.
Make fun of my name next!
:)

My name is misspelled but no one can tell.

1125 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:10:34pm

re: #1107 Sigma_x

And I repeat:

1126 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:11:16pm

re: #1116 Sigma_x

You know what's funny? What's funny is the people I manage to piss off the most are the right-wingers on this site. Coincidence? I'll leave that to you to decide.

(aside from obdicut - but he's so paranoid about getting on the wrong side of you old-timers here that he'll kiss just about any ass in order to be liked.)

But I just realized - aceofwhat, cato, dark_falcon, walter - you're all right-wingers.

I'm doing God's work here.

Ehh.... Cato is Cato, he is on his own axis. DF is yeah a little to the right, but he is getting better. Ace though, you are correct about... total teabagger that one.

Dude, you don't even know who the real right wingers are here.

1127 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:11:43pm

Hmm, I getting into troll territory with some of my comments. I think I'll tone it down a bit.
:)

1128 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:11:44pm

re: #1119 Sigma_x

And you're an ignorant, pompous ass who has a particularly nerdy nicname.

Dark_falcon?! Seriously?! You think I'm going to have my feelings hurt by a guy who goes around calling himself "dark falcon?!" Or give a shit about ANYTHING you have to say?!

That's hilarious. Dark Falcon.

Oh, so the nickname is the basis on which you judge people. That actually makes a little sense...Lord knows you aren't weighing folks by the cogency of what they submit, so it had to be something else.

1129 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:11:44pm

re: #1116 Sigma_x

You know what's funny? What's funny is the people I manage to piss off the most are the right-wingers on this site. Coincidence? I'll leave that to you to decide.

(aside from obdicut - but he's so paranoid about getting on the wrong side of you old-timers here that he'll kiss just about any ass in order to be liked.)

But I just realized - aceofwhat, cato, dark_falcon, walter - you're all right-wingers.

I'm doing God's work here.

I'm a right-winger?

Some people are going to be very shocked to learn of this.

Your penetrating perspicacity seems to have abandoned you for the day. Here's hoping you don't lose it altogether, along with your eerie prescience, or you might end up having to ask Walter for a job as a shopping-cart gatherer.

1130 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:11:48pm

re: #1122 Varek Raith

You amuse me.
Make fun of my name next!
:)

I have no idea what your name alludes to, so I couldn't make fun of it.

I can, however, make fun of the fact that I just did a google search of your nic, and what pops up are about 10 gazillion blog posts all over the internet.

Like, apparently, this is ALL you do. So, bearing that in mind, it's not a far stretch to assume that you're pretty much just another internet-addict shut-in.

Tell me, do YOU have a job? Or is relentlessly posting on the internet it?

1131 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:12:16pm

re: #1126 LudwigVanQuixote

Ehh... Cato is Cato, he is on his own axis. DF is yeah a little to the right, but he is getting better. Ace though, you are correct about... total teabagger that one.

Dude, you don't even know who the real right wingers are here.

LMFAO...

1132 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:12:38pm

re: #1129 Cato the Elder

I'm a right-winger?

Some people are going to be very shocked to learn of this.

Your penetrating perspicacity seems to have abandoned you for the day. Here's hoping you don't lose it altogether, along with your eerie prescience, or you might end up having to ask Walter for a job as a shopping-cart gatherer.

If your a right winger, I'm Allah.

1133 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:12:40pm

re: #1111 Gus 802

re: #1125 Dark_Falcon

GMTA

1134 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:12:46pm

re: #1117 Varek Raith

Two words
Superiority. Complex
/PhD, Internet Psychology

Corollary to that is typically a high level of low self-esteem. The superiority complex is a coping mechanism to bolster a feeling of low self worth.

1135 ShaunP  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:12:55pm

re: #1130 Sigma_x

I have no idea what your name alludes to, so I couldn't make fun of it.

I can, however, make fun of the fact that I just did a google search of your nic, and what pops up are about 10 gazillion blog posts all over the internet.

Like, apparently, this is ALL you do. So, bearing that in mind, it's not a far stretch to assume that you're pretty much just another internet-addict shut-in.

Tell me, do YOU have a job? Or is relentlessly posting on the internet it?

LMAO. How can you take someone seriously when they make fun of someone for posting on the internet, by posting it on the internet?

1136 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:13:07pm

re: #1127 Varek Raith

Hmm, I getting into troll territory with some of my comments. I think I'll tone it down a bit.
:)

it's been funny, though. that's always a saving grace;)

1137 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:13:31pm

re: #1123 Aceofwhat?

You know what's funny? Good folks who lean left who are going to have to ask that you not be submitted as an example of the left.

...snip.

No Problem, Mon. We're so tolerant we have almost no standards at all.

1138 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:13:53pm

re: #1126 LudwigVanQuixote

Ehh... Cato is Cato, he is on his own axis. DF is yeah a little to the right, but he is getting better. Ace though, you are correct about... total teabagger that one.

Dude, you don't even know who the real right wingers are here.

Anytime I posted anything left leaning, or anything taking the piss out of the GOP, cato was right there to "put me in my place." So I just assumed he was a right-winger,

If he's a lefty, he sure has a funny approach to furthering his leftist views.

1139 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:14:07pm

re: #1130 Sigma_x

I have no idea what your name alludes to, so I couldn't make fun of it.

I can, however, make fun of the fact that I just did a google search of your nic, and what pops up are about 10 gazillion blog posts all over the internet.

Like, apparently, this is ALL you do. So, bearing that in mind, it's not a far stretch to assume that you're pretty much just another internet-addict shut-in.

Tell me, do YOU have a job? Or is relentlessly posting on the internet it?

Lol, mostly gaming forums with that one disappointing time I spent at NewsBusters. Lol.

1140 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:14:40pm

re: #1137 Decatur Deb

No Problem, Mon. We're so tolerant we have almost no standards at all.

*chortle*

1141 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:14:46pm

re: #1129 Cato the Elder

I hope I haven't chapped your ass too much by kissing it when I told you you were completely idiotic about your attitude towards the Enlightenment. I want to provide you with the best ass-kissing experience possible. I have a work ethic here. Should I refrain from telling you that your view of the ACLU is positively medieval in the future? Would that help my derrière-smooching attain higher levels of perfection?

I'd rather live your live than his, though. That's a smooch I'll give happily.

1142 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:15:14pm

re: #1141 Obdicut

PIMF: Live your life. Sorry.

1143 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:15:18pm

re: #1135 ShaunP

LMAO. How can you take someone seriously when they make fun of someone for posting on the internet, by posting it on the internet?

That is ironic, I admit.

1144 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:15:18pm

re: #1132 Varek Raith

If your a right winger, I'm Allah.

I thought you were a vampire of the White Court.

1145 palomino  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:15:30pm

re: #1086 Sigma_x

I've said some nasty shit to people here a few times, and sometimes it got personal. But even I think your comments to Walter were over the top. You ridiculed his unfortunate life situation, which you wouldn't have even known about except that he volunteered the information.

And, yeah, there's a pecking order here. So what? There aren't a million people here holding you down. More like a few hundred regular commenters, many of whom have known each other for nearly 10 years. And they communicate with one another daily. So if you've only been here a month and you start with really mean-spirited personal attacks, people will close ranks and you'll be ostracized. Is that fair? Maybe not in some larger cosmic sense, but in the context of a blog's unique logic, it's perfectly reasonable.

And why are you lording your $11 million bank account over others? That's just petty and irrelevant.

1146 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:16:22pm

re: #1145 palomino

He donated $50,000 to some orphans once so it's cool.

1147 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:17:19pm

re: #1138 Sigma_x

Anytime I posted anything left leaning, or anything taking the piss out of the GOP, cato was right there to "put me in my place." So I just assumed he was a right-winger,

If he's a lefty, he sure has a funny approach to furthering his leftist views.

I didn't say I was a lefty, either.

Check your schemata. You seem to be missing a few.

1148 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:18:11pm

Heh. Google my nic.

About 385 results (0.12 seconds)

Sigma_x

About 37,600 results (0.14 seconds)

How I love childish games.

1149 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:18:21pm

re: #1145 palomino

eh, he doesn't have an 11MM account.

unless his jubilation over a particular trade the other day was a pure, bald-faced lie...

1150 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:19:03pm

re: #1145 palomino

I've said some nasty shit to people here a few times, and sometimes it got personal. But even I think your comments to Walter were over the top. You ridiculed his unfortunate life situation, which you wouldn't have even known about except that he volunteered the information.

And, yeah, there's a pecking order here. So what? There aren't a million people here holding you down. More like a few hundred regular commenters, many of whom have known each other for nearly 10 years. And they communicate with one another daily. So if you've only been here a month and you start with really mean-spirited personal attacks, people will close ranks and you'll be ostracized. Is that fair? Maybe not in some larger cosmic sense, but in the context of a blog's unique logic, it's perfectly reasonable.

And why are you lording your $11 million bank account over others? That's just petty and irrelevant.

Well, when you put it that way - I can't really argue with you. My attacks on Walter were a bit over the top and personal. But you have to understand that the guy comes at with this seething anger every single time I post here. That "fuck you" out of nowhere was NOT the first time he's done that. And I have a hard time taking shit from someone over and over again.

As for me posting that account - I was being called a liar over and over and over again by bagua saying I "didn't have even $25K in my account." And I wanted to prove him wrong.

It didn't bring me any pleasure to post that. I know exactly how something like that comes off. It was either that or have him relentlessly call me a liar, which I simply couldn't stand for.

1151 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:19:56pm

re: #1148 Varek Raith

Heh. Google my nic.

How I love childish games.

most of those are in reference to one of goldman sach's trading platforms.

Not me.

1152 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:20:15pm

re: #1149 Aceofwhat?

It could be perfectly true, and he's a gambling type. Who cares?

There are a lot of people richer than me in this world. it's not exactly news.

1153 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:21:10pm

re: #1143 Sigma_x

That is ironic, I admit.

You don't know me, boy, so I'll say this to you once: If you ever misuse the word "ironic" in my presence again, you will find out what the root meaning of the word "sarcasm" is. Your internet flesh will rip, your bones will crack, and you will pray for Charles to ban you so I can never get at you again.

1154 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:21:33pm

re: #1146 Obdicut

He donated $50,000 to some orphans once so it's cool.

You're just sad. Plain and simple. I had you on ignore for a while and it was working out fine.

I have no idea why I started responding to you again. Won't make that mistake twice.

See ya, obdi.

1155 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:22:02pm

re: #1153 Cato the Elder

You don't know me, boy, so I'll say this to you once: If you ever misuse the word "ironic" in my presence again, you will find out what the root meaning of the word "sarcasm" is. Your internet flesh will rip, your bones will crack, and you will pray for Charles to ban you so I can never get at you again.

Ironic is the exact opposite of something's intended meaning.

I used it perfectly.

1156 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:22:04pm

re: #1151 Sigma_x

most of those are in reference to one of goldman sach's trading platforms.

Not me.

Like I said, childish games.
Also, some jerk at Atari has the same nic I do.
:(

:)

1157 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:23:23pm

Cripes. It's been Sigma_x day for the most part. All day long about this new-money, McMansion mentality, 38-year old KID and internet personality that accused everyone at LGF of hacking his Twitter account early this morning after he made some insulting comments yesterday regarding Walter's personal life.

1158 Obdicut  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:23:31pm

re: #1154 Sigma_x

Oh no.

1159 Sigma_x  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:23:42pm

re: #1149 Aceofwhat?

eh, he doesn't have an 11MM account.

unless his jubilation over a particular trade the other day was a pure, bald-faced lie...

Well, I simply can't compete with that logic.

1160 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:24:08pm

re: #1155 Sigma_x

Ironic is the exact opposite of something's intended meaning.

I used it perfectly.

Nope.

1161 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:25:40pm

re: #1157 Gus 802

Cripes. It's been Sigma_x day for the most part. All day long about this new-money, McMansion mentality, 38-year old KID and internet personality that accused everyone at LGF of hacking his Twitter account early this morning after he made some insulting comments yesterday regarding Walter's personal life.

I missed it all, I'm busy playing with my new art toy

1162 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:26:46pm

re: #1152 Obdicut

It could be perfectly true, and he's a gambling type. Who cares?

There are a lot of people richer than me in this world. it's not exactly news.

oh, i don't really care. i could be the Baron of Redonkulus but if my contribution here smells like a barrel of rotten fish, then it is what it is.

I think what you're implying, and i'm seconding, is the notion that a baseball player could be Finnish royalty, but what matters in baseball are the stats on the back of your card. apparently that's a novel concept for our trader extraordinaire.

the reason i mentioned it is that i'm now curious about the posts in question the other day...i was quite supportive and positive that he'd done well, and now i want to know if i've been hoodwinked.

that's all.

1163 palomino  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:27:34pm

re: #1149 Aceofwhat?

eh, he doesn't have an 11MM account.

unless his jubilation over a particular trade the other day was a pure, bald-faced lie...

I don't think there's really any way to tell if he's lying about the fat stacks of cash. Not without getting into his real identity, which seems like a bad idea.

Either way, it's hollow and beside the point to use the size of your bank account as a counter-argument.

1164 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:27:36pm

re: #1161 WindUpBird

I missed it all, I'm busy playing with my new art toy

Happened about the same time that another nutcase showed up by the name of Scrooster. Oddly enough they're both narcissists.

1165 Macha  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:28:49pm

re: #1161 WindUpBird

I missed it all, I'm busy playing with my new art toy

What new art toy do you have?

1166 Liberal Classic  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:29:06pm

re: #1162 Aceofwhat?

oh, i don't really care. i could be the Baron of Redonkulus...

That would make a great username.

1167 cliffster  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:29:13pm

hehe. Bout to go for a run. Thought I'd drop back by to see if that loser was still here trollin'. heh

1168 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:30:36pm

re: #1163 palomino

I don't think there's really any way to tell if he's lying about the fat stacks of cash. Not without getting into his real identity, which seems like a bad idea.

Either way, it's hollow and beside the point to use the size of your bank account as a counter-argument.

i agree. #1162 provides more detail.

1169 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:31:02pm

Of course, that jerk at Atari is most likely me and I just forgot the login info.

1170 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:32:00pm

re: #1166 Liberal Classic

That would make a great username.

i love the stories behind the nics...Brookly red, Decatur Deb, etc. small windows in what can otherwise be a fairly impersonal medium.

1171 palomino  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:32:28pm

re: #1150 Sigma_x

Well, when you put it that way - I can't really argue with you. My attacks on Walter were a bit over the top and personal. But you have to understand that the guy comes at with this seething anger every single time I post here. That "fuck you" out of nowhere was NOT the first time he's done that. And I have a hard time taking shit from someone over and over again.

As for me posting that account - I was being called a liar over and over and over again by bagua saying I "didn't have even $25K in my account." And I wanted to prove him wrong.

It didn't bring me any pleasure to post that. I know exactly how something like that comes off. It was either that or have him relentlessly call me a liar, which I simply couldn't stand for.

Here's my advice, FWIW. Just like in life, there are some people here who will invariably piss you off; so if you want to hang around here, you should avoid them for the most part.

I don't think there was much ill will directed at you before your harshly personal comments to Walter. He's a fixture here, and people got defensive when they saw you taking pleasure in his misfortune.

1172 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:33:13pm

re: #1165 Macha

What new art toy do you have?

Cintiq 21ux LCD tablet: Image: aCintiq.21UX_01.jpg

(It's actually a serious business expense, art's how I make my living, and my old tablet is slowly dying but that doesn't mean I'm not GIGGLING LIKE A MADMAN)

1173 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:34:29pm

re: #1172 WindUpBird

Cintiq 21ux LCD tablet: Image: aCintiq.21UX_01.jpg

(It's actually a serious business expense, art's how I make my living, and my old tablet is slowly dying but that doesn't mean I'm not GIGGLING LIKE A MADMAN)

Madmen don't giggle.
Schoolgirls do.

:P

1174 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:35:17pm

re: #1173 Varek Raith

Madmen don't giggle.
Schoolgirls do.

:P

I'm sort of a little of both :D

1175 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:35:21pm

He claims to be married. Here's his profile at "Stock Twits":

sigma_x00
sigma_x00 avatar

Location: Miami, FL

Bio: I enjoy making obscene amounts of money,... spending it on whores & drugs, & then just sort of blowing the rest.

I wonder if his wife thinks the "spending it on whores" line is funny.

1176 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:35:25pm

Sigma, since you don't like being called a liar, I'm going to call you one and say your drop-dead gorgeous wife is a figment of your imagination, you puffed-up little internet boasthard.

Prove me wrong by posting a picture of her.

(See what I'm doing here, folks? Advanced internet psych jiujitsu.)

1177 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:35:57pm

re: #1174 WindUpBird

I'm sort of a little of both :D

I knew you'd say that.
;)

1178 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:36:05pm

OK! I'll stand down.

He's finally been blocked.

Whew. What a relief.

1179 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:36:46pm

re: #1145 palomino

I've said some nasty shit to people here a few times, and sometimes it got personal. But even I think your comments to Walter were over the top. You ridiculed his unfortunate life situation, which you wouldn't have even known about except that he volunteered the information.

And, yeah, there's a pecking order here. So what? There aren't a million people here holding you down. More like a few hundred regular commenters, many of whom have known each other for nearly 10 years. And they communicate with one another daily. So if you've only been here a month and you start with really mean-spirited personal attacks, people will close ranks and you'll be ostracized. Is that fair? Maybe not in some larger cosmic sense, but in the context of a blog's unique logic, it's perfectly reasonable.

And why are you lording your $11 million bank account over others? That's just petty and irrelevant.

To file under "things that people should know without being told".

Sigma_x, I don't doubt your good intentions. But you are an egocentric hothead with a profound sense of victimhood. God forbid you should perceive any real or imaginary slight; you will use any available personal information you have on a commenter to be as deliberately hurtful as possible.

And you alternate these attacks to complaints about how unfairly you're being treated. Seriously, it's like a part of your brain is missing.

1180 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:36:55pm

re: #1178 Gus 802

THANK YOU, Stinky!

1181 palomino  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:37:01pm

re: #1154 Sigma_x

You're just sad. Plain and simple. I had you on ignore for a while and it was working out fine.

I have no idea why I started responding to you again. Won't make that mistake twice.

See ya, obdi.

Now you're getting into it with obdicut, varek and gus? I'm not the official LGF scorekeeper, but I don't think any of those guys are right wingers.

Ease up, please.

1182 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:37:32pm

re: #1178 Gus 802

OK! I'll stand down.

He's finally been blocked.

Whew. What a relief.

It really wasn't going anywhere good. Slowly...

1183 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:38:16pm

re: #1182 Stanley Sea

It really wasn't going anywhere good. Slowly...

Yeah. My head gasket was about to spring a leak.

1184 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:38:17pm

re: #1181 palomino

It's dead, Jim.

1185 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:40:36pm

re: #1150 Sigma_x

...

As for me posting that account - I was being called a liar over and over and over again by bagua saying I "didn't have even $25K in my account." And I wanted to prove him wrong.

...

And you failed. The SEC rule, which you posted on your blog that you maintain multiple accounts to circumvent and advised others to do the same, applies only to accounts less than $25,000. If you had an account with $25,000 or more, you could Day Trade to your hearts desire and have no need of such blatant dishonesty. You have admitted as much, so your frantic efforts to backtrack are quite silly.

You claim that I advise people on how to get around SEC rules. In that you're correct. For people that aren't listed as day traders on their taxes, there's a little thing known as the in-and-out rule - which precludes one from selling a stock and then buying back in within a 24 hr period. I advise traders to open several accounts to get around that rule. [And you wrote that you do the same yourself] Why should the big boys on Wall St. be free to do whatever they want, when your average joe is hampered by rules designed to cut them off at the knees. I have no regrets on that point.

Your rationalisation that the "big boys" are crooks why shouldn't you do the same doesn't hold water. A cheat is a cheat, and if you were in fact trading an $11 million dollar account, then you would be a big cheater yourself.

As it makes exactly zero sense that you would be a multi-millionaire and yet be unable to keep $25,000 in your trading account, the document you posted is obviously fraudulent. This is typical con-man behaviour.

1186 palomino  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:41:32pm

re: #1184 Floral Giraffe

It's dead, Jim.

Who's Jim?

But there was no hope once he started lashing out at everyone.

1187 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:41:45pm
"And just like that, poof! he's gone..."

--Verbal Kint


Fire up the grill, Dark Falcon, ye of the silly name!

1188 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:43:52pm

re: #1186 palomino

Who's Jim?

But there was no hope once he started lashing out at everyone.

Huh, speak up.
Image: captain-james-t-kirk-awesome1.jpg

1189 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:44:36pm

re: #1182 Stanley Sea

It really wasn't going anywhere good. Slowly...

Would you rather be going nowhere fast?

1190 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:45:06pm

re: #1186 palomino

Who's Jim?

But there was no hope once he started lashing out at everyone.

He'd been like that for as long as i can recall. Still, let it not be said that this is a place where one doesn't have multiple chances to start anew...i rather appreciate how tolerant our good host can be.

Lord knows, i've needed to make a tolerance withdrawal on more than one occasion.

1191 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:45:52pm

re: #1138 Sigma_x

Anytime I posted anything left leaning, or anything taking the piss out of the GOP, cato was right there to "put me in my place." So I just assumed he was a right-winger,

If he's a lefty, he sure has a funny approach to furthering his leftist views.

You might notice that when it comes to harsh on the GOP, there are few here more willing to judge them harshly for their many sins than me. I do it so often, that I need to remind people that I also dislike the Dems - but for different reasons and not nearly as much.

Yet, Cato and I get on rather well.

I am not sure what your purpose is here.

I get that being on the bottom of a pile up is no fun and believe me, I know what it is like to get baited, lose it and have lots of people ignore your points in order to be concerned about how you are saying them. It is infuriating. However, I don't get the impression you are trying to communicate a point or be instructive beyond claiming how awesome you are anonymously on a blog. That's pretty silly and ultimately self defeating.

When I get pissed at something people here know why and they know I am trying to make a point - they hopefully don't think I am just wagging my parts about.

If the point is about science, they know I can back it up.

I suppose that's the thing. I'm not here to prove anything about me. I am here to talk about things I care about with people I like even when they do give me hell.

Why are you here?

1192 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:47:46pm

Ohh and it seems he got sticked while I was typing that... Oh well. Now he isn't here.

1193 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:48:49pm

re: #1191 LudwigVanQuixote

Why are you here?

Redshirt, evidently.
Image: redshirt.jpg

1194 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:50:21pm

re: #1192 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh and it seems he got sticked while I was typing that... Oh well. Now he isn't here.

I was too late in my sermonizing too. A shame.

1195 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:50:36pm

re: #1193 Varek Raith

Redshirt, evidently.
Image: redshirt.jpg

YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A FAN BOY AND NOT A TREKKIE!

That's like 50 sith demerits for you!

Present yourself to the discipline droid in two cycles.

1196 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:52:03pm

re: #1194 Nimed

I was too late in my sermonizing too. A shame.

He wouldn't have listened. His type never do. He finally cracked yesterday and went off the deep end this morning.

1197 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:52:33pm

re: #1196 Gus 802

He wouldn't have listened. His type never do. He finally cracked yesterday and went off the deep end this morning.

Wonder if he shows up in the village?

1198 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:53:09pm

re: #1195 LudwigVanQuixote

YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A FAN BOY AND NOT A TREKKIE!

That's like 50 sith demerits for you!

Present yourself to the discipline droid in two cycles.

I like both.
OUTCAST TO TREKKIES AND FANBOYS, I AM.
Though, Enterprise sucked.

1199 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:54:11pm

re: #1197 LudwigVanQuixote

Wonder if he shows up in the village?

He's probably never heard of the place. If he has I doubt it. I'm thinking he'll show up somewhere else to basically pimp his "financial advice" and get banned from there too.

1200 Summer Seale  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:55:02pm

I guess he'll have to go back to living in his dream mansion on the dreamy waterfront with his dreamily amazing and gorgeous wife instead of being like us "nerds" with normal bank accounts and twitter accounts chatting with each other online.... We must be so uncool and un-dreamy or something.

1201 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:55:25pm

re: #1197 LudwigVanQuixote

Wonder if he shows up in the village?

I hope not. They don't deserve that disruptive cretin. He needs to learn how to talk to other people before he joins another blog.

1202 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:56:47pm

re: #1200 Summer

I guess he'll have to go back to living in his dream mansion on the dreamy waterfront with his dreamily amazing and gorgeous wife instead of being like us "nerds" with normal bank accounts and twitter accounts chatting with each other online... We must be so uncool and un-dreamy or something.

But first he'll have his imaginary butler pour him an imaginary drink!

/

1203 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 5:58:08pm

re: #1202 Gus 802

But first he'll have his imaginary butler pour him an imaginary drink!

/

Hey! If I can have my imaginary robot grrrl, he can have his imaginary butlers and drinks!

1204 Gus  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:00:47pm

Think I'll "cool off" here and get some snacks.

BBL

1205 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:01:40pm

re: #1199 Gus 802

He's probably never heard of the place. If he has I doubt it. I'm thinking he'll show up somewhere else to basically pimp his "financial advice" and get banned from there too.

Well, that was exactly the direction he was headed. Start by posting what you think the blog wants to hear - in this case, a bunch of pseudo-leftist rants about ecology or whatever - and then let it drop that you just made an amazing amount of money with a simple if nerve-wracking single trade - and with the proceeds you're about to go party in Europe for the weekend.

Mention that a whole 500 people follow your every word on Twitter, and insert a few comments on gold prices and the European bailout.

Link directly to your financial blog with every post, and wait for somebody gullible to ask for your advice.

It's actually classic con-man behavior. Someone gets suspicious, pretend to be hurt and say "all my trades are out in the open for anyone to see". It's a long con - you reel 'em in slowly, then offer to be their financial adviser or money manager or present a "once-in-a-lifetime" opportunity to get in on a big trade that will bring you fortune with eerie prescience.

Seen it all before, a hundred times.

1206 Varek Raith  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:02:19pm

BBL or in the morning.
Later!

1207 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:02:35pm

re: #1198 Varek Raith

I like both.
OUTCAST TO TREKKIES AND FANBOYS, I AM.
Though, Enterprise sucked.

What? Of all the Star Trek spin ff that was the best one. It had the best plot lines - and Jolene Blalock.

Now you are just trying to use Sith sorcery on me....

1208 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:03:54pm

re: #1201 Dark_Falcon

I hope not. They don't deserve that disruptive cretin. He needs to learn how to talk to other people before he joins another blog.

Oh come on, those people will certainly buy gold!

1209 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:05:03pm

re: #1196 Gus 802

He wouldn't have listened. His type never do. He finally cracked yesterday and went off the deep end this morning.

You're absolutely right, it was clearly meant to be.

Guys like this never fail to surprise me. Sigma was perfectly convinced, right to the end, he was the victim of a colossal injustice. What's wrong with these people? Do they skip kindergarten or something?

1210 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:05:09pm

re: #1199 Gus 802

He's probably never heard of the place. If he has I doubt it. I'm thinking he'll show up somewhere else to basically pimp his "financial advice" and get banned from there too.

Yeah, but the ones at the village watch Beck!

1211 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:06:02pm

re: #1200 Summer

I guess he'll have to go back to living in his dream mansion on the dreamy waterfront with his dreamily amazing and gorgeous wife instead of being like us "nerds" with normal bank accounts and twitter accounts chatting with each other online... We must be so uncool and un-dreamy or something.

Funny how someone who claims to have eleven million needs to spend six months and 1,600 posts to get under 500 followers on twitter, and then joins up here to pimp himself and his blog as an advisor.

Con-men such as sigma_x are a dime a dozen in the stock market world, the one thing he has going for him is that he is such a mouse that the SEC and IRS will quite possible overlook him, as he intimated.

Sadly, many people lose their hard earned money being misled and conned by phonies like sigma_x.

1212 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:06:16pm

re: #1205 Cato the Elder

Well, that was exactly the direction he was headed. Start by posting what you think the blog wants to hear - in this case, a bunch of pseudo-leftist rants about ecology or whatever - and then let it drop that you just made an amazing amount of money with a simple if nerve-wracking single trade - and with the proceeds you're about to go party in Europe for the weekend.

Mention that a whole 500 people follow your every word on Twitter, and insert a few comments on gold prices and the European bailout.

Link directly to your financial blog with every post, and wait for somebody gullible to ask for your advice.

It's actually classic con-man behavior. Someone gets suspicious, pretend to be hurt and say "all my trades are out in the open for anyone to see". It's a long con - you reel 'em in slowly, then offer to be their financial adviser or money manager or present a "once-in-a-lifetime" opportunity to get in on a big trade that will bring you fortune with eerie prescience.

Seen it all before, a hundred times.

Thanks for catching wise to him, Cato. Assholes like that are a boil on the leg of capitalism.

1213 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:06:21pm

re: #1209 Nimed

You're absolutely right, it was clearly meant to be.

Guys like this never fail to surprise me. Sigma was perfectly convinced, right to the end, he was the victim of a colossal injustice. What's wrong with these people? Do they skip kindergarten or something?

Nah I think the sense that Gus and Cato have is likely correct. There was too much outrage over the wrong things and too much desire to pimp himself to be a political blogger.

1214 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:06:27pm

re: #1209 Nimed

You're absolutely right, it was clearly meant to be.

Guys like this never fail to surprise me. Sigma was perfectly convinced, right to the end, he was the victim of a colossal injustice. What's wrong with these people? Do they skip kindergarten or something?

i dunno. it doesn't make sense to me either.

but i promise to only occasionally use him as an example of the left;)

1215 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:07:37pm

re: #1214 Aceofwhat?

i dunno. it doesn't make sense to me either.

but i promise to only occasionally use him as an example of the left;)

Go right ahead, we have Palin and Rush to use as examples.

1216 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:09:16pm

re: #1208 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh come on, those people will certainly buy gold!

I don't care. I wouldn't wish a con-man on them, even so. I want them to come to their senses, not be fleeced for someone's ill-gotten gains. I want that ass exposed and arrested. Madoff wannabes like him do our nation great injury.

1217 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:09:48pm

re: #1209 Nimed

You're absolutely right, it was clearly meant to be.

Guys like this never fail to surprise me. Sigma was perfectly convinced, right to the end, he was the victim of a colossal injustice. What's wrong with these people? Do they skip kindergarten or something?

The oddest part was that he admitted his scamming of the SEC, IRS and several brokers in various posts and on his blog, and yet claimed he was wrongly accused.

1218 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:10:22pm

re: #1215 LudwigVanQuixote

Go right ahead, we have Palin and Rush to use as examples.

ouch

1219 Nimed  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:10:57pm

re: #1205 Cato the Elder

re: #1211 Bagua

re: #1212 Dark_Falcon

re: #1213 LudwigVanQuixote

People... I don't know about that theory. He was way to antagonistic and quick to anger. It's not smart to be as offensive as you can to your future clients.

1220 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:12:54pm

re: #801 LudwigVanQuixote

Guys, it is interesting to hear this.

For you and all the educated and thinkg lizards, I point to the history and stand by my claims. They really are using the same memes and tactics as the early nazis and appealing to the same base through the same psychology. The results are starting to bear fruit.

I agree that not all things overlap, the imagery is differently flavored and the actual Nazis were differently flavored in their cultural metaphors, but the message is the same. Exactly the same.

There is a class of human being that fals for this and gets swept up in it. It spreads like a cancer through a culture and right now, America has a tumor. If the economy collapses, and they find that charismatic leader, then the tumor will metastasize

No it won't. What America has is constipation. This whole scene is alien to America. We've seen hard times before, and the depression was worse for us than it was for Germany, and we didn't seriously flirt with fascism.

Also, some of your sources of information are painting things darker than they are. For instance, this new AZ law specifically requires that the officer making the stop have some legal grounds for making the stop, apart from any immigration issues. People won't be stopped and harassed for looking Hispanic. They will be stopped for running a stop sign. If you've ever violated a traffic law, you know that being a citizen does not exempt you from having to produce a DL on the spot. Now like the AZ law or not, what it calls for is that at this point, if the driver cannot produce valid ID and if a reasonable person would think it fairly likely that the reason is he's an illegal immigrant, THEN the officer can look into the question of citizenship as well as the stop sign violation.

No citizen has anything much to worry about. Illegal immigrants, that's another story, and the debate is heated over whether the immigration laws on the books should be enforced or waived. The federal govt right now has a policy of waiving many of them, in practice, and AZ wants to force the issue and this law is its vehicle for asking the feds to do something about the kidnapping epidemic now in progress there. If the law stands, it'll be hard on immigrants, even unreasonably hard, but it's not fascism. Almost every nation on earth has immigration laws that it enforces. That doesn't make the whole rest of the world Nazi.

1221 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:13:39pm

re: #1219 Nimed

re: #1211 Bagua

re: #1212 Dark_Falcon

re: #1213 LudwigVanQuixote

People... I don't know about that theory. He was way to antagonistic and quick to anger. It's not smart to be as offensive as you can to your future clients.

Hey, I didn't say he was a good con-man.

1222 Bagua  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:20:35pm

re: #1219 Nimed

re: #1211 Bagua

re: #1212 Dark_Falcon

re: #1213 LudwigVanQuixote

People... I don't know about that theory. He was way to antagonistic and quick to anger. It's not smart to be as offensive as you can to your future clients.

Con-men generally hold contempt for their victims and consider them suckers. They also try to make it appear they have no self-interest in the scam they are promoting. In the case of sigma_x, we don't know the end game, we only saw the confidence part and he couldn't conceal the contempt he felt for us. It could be something as simple as a pump and dump once he made critical mass. That is as common as white bread. Or he could be hoping to build a subscription service.

1223 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 10, 2010 6:20:38pm

re: #360 RadicalModerate

We have a "sexually abnormal individual" currently seated on the Supreme Court? You mean those rumors about Clarence Thomas way back when were actually true?

Aw, cripes. If he was abnormal, it was that he took being a gentleman and being careful what he said and where his eyes went, when in the company of a lady, more seriously than the other 99% of the working world, and we're mostly tolerably civilized about it. And if he rented some movies, how would that be abnormal? It's maybe not socially approved in Baptist circles, but if you got hold of their movie rental history I'll bet it's not exactly abnormal there either.

As to Kagan, it is of no consequence and no interest whether she's lesbian or straight. The job description for the SC doesn't include lap dances or any other sort of favors a woman might confer upon a man. Or another woman.

Obama has steered a sensible course. He's not looking for a fight. He shouldn't get one.

1224 Timmeh  Mon, May 10, 2010 7:46:32pm

Well at least party platforms are non-binding and can be ignored by the sane.

1225 potus_lies  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:31:05am

I love (not) how Little Green Footballs doesn't even try to show any understanding of non-progressive opinions. I love (not) how LGF accepts demonizing one's opponents as normal and healthy. This article on the Maine Republican platform is itself "totally insane."

1226 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:14:54am

re: #1225 potus_lies

I'm not a "progressive".
My non-progressive views aren't demonized, nor am I for that matter.
Many will disagree, and forcefully, but - that's life.

Hey - why don't you come into the current and live thread and talk with us? This thread's deader'n a doornail.

1227 jordash1212  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:14:00am

Soon they'll be calling for secession.

1228 jordash1212  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:17:18am

Here's the link to their proposed amendments / manifesto:

1229 wrenchwench  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:06:52am

re: #1225 potus_lies

Welcome (not) hatchling (not?).

1230 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:50:17am

Smells like Paulian in here.

1231 The Left  Tue, May 11, 2010 2:51:26pm

re: #1225 potus_lies

I love (not) how Little Green Footballs doesn't even try to show any understanding of non-progressive opinions. I love (not) how LGF accepts demonizing one's opponents as normal and healthy. This article on the Maine Republican platform is itself "totally insane."

WTF are you talking about? There are something like only 3 progressive commenters here-- and I'm one of them.

You are insane yourself if you don't realise that the Maine GOP platform is insane-- as even the conservatives here think it is.

I'm sorry to pop your little delusional bubble about 'what LGF accepts' and what 'viewpoints LGF understands' -- the fact is that this is an independent blog and the opinions expressed here by commenters tend to be centrist-- whether slightly right leaning or left leaning. We have a few partisan outliers or ideological outliers but the overall commentariat is centrist.

But why the hell am I talking to someone who chooses a nic like 'potus lies'.

1232 jordash1212  Tue, May 11, 2010 2:54:32pm

re: #1225 potus_lies

I'd really like to think what you are tacitly promoting is progressive, but it's not. If your definition of progressive is removing the department of education, clamping down on other's freedom of religion or abstaining from religion, and dismissing scientific fact as myth and positing a conspiracy between companies that seek sustainability and the government, etc. ... I think that's closer to regression than to progression.


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