Moron vs. Moron in Alabama Governor Race

Wingnuts • Views: 4,892

Today’s right wing jawdropper: in Alabama, the “True Republican PAC” is running an advertisement mocking Republican gubernatorial candidate Bradley Byrne for supporting the teaching of evolution in schools.

Yes, you read that right — these “True Republicans” are so proudly, invincibly ignorant that they’re making fun of a fellow Republican for not being a moron.

Youtube Video

Except — Byrne actually is a moron too, just like the “True Republicans.” And he’s outraged that his moron credentials were questioned.

Byrne responds to this “despicable attack” with a statement: “I have never wavered in my belief that this world and everything in it is a masterpiece created by the hands of God… I fought to ensure the teaching of creationism in our school text books.”

UPDATE at 5/11/10 6:13:48 pm:

This story gets even more absurd and disturbing.

The group that’s funding the “True Republican PAC?”

The Alabama Education Association.

Jump to bottom

1323 comments
1 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:48:38pm

LOL, to hell in a FedEx box we go~!

2 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:48:52pm

Who was it who first said "Such a shame they both can't lose..."

3 alexknyc  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:49:50pm

Why is it we're falling behind the rest of the world in math and science again?

4 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:50:10pm

Why the hell is believing that parts of the Bible are untrue relevant to anything?

5 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:50:55pm

re: #3 alexknyc

Why is it we're falling behind the rest of the world in math and science again?

UNIONS!!!1!!!
/

6 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:51:00pm

By the way after listening to the add... wow is that really what your standard person sounds like in Alabama? Because its like they took the voice in my head that I hear when I think of the phrase "ignorant red neck accent" (is it wrong of me that I have a clear image of such a voice?) and then used the male and female versions of it to voice over this add....

7 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:52:11pm

re: #6 jamesfirecat

By the way after listening to the add... wow is that really what your standard person sounds like in Alabama? Because its like they took the voice in my head that I hear when I think of the phrase "ignorant red neck accent" (is it wrong of me that I have a clear image of such a voice?) and then used the male and female versions of it to voice over this add...

No, the true native Alabama accent is Truman Capote's.

8 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:52:59pm

re: #7 Decatur Deb

No, the true native Alabama accent is Truman Capote's.

You mean there are more people who sound like that?

9 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:53:57pm

Mmm, a creationist thread. These are always fun. Ludwig holding court with the Troll Hammer of Science, roast flounceling cooking over the fire. Great times and great company.

10 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:54:06pm

re: #3 alexknyc

Why is it we're falling behind the rest of the world in math and science again?

That's liberal elitist talk. "True" conservatives know that the real test of wisdom can only be judged with a Bible quiz!
/

11 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:54:16pm

For added laughs the blog "Left in Alabama" is angry that the video implies that Alabama Democrats are liberal. They're not.

[Link: www.leftinalabama.com...]

12 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:55:01pm

re: #8 JasonA

Probably not many. Should have ///.

13 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:55:40pm

Why not go full-theocracy and just let clergymen run for office?

14 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:55:46pm

lol the south

15 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:55:52pm

The 3 pk of Bacon Hot Sauce I ordered up on Sunday arrived today.

I'm thinking of trying it on eggs first, but what do ya'll think? Maybe pizza?

16 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:56:45pm

re: #13 JasonA

Why not go full-theocracy and just let clergymen run for office?

Rev Huckabee will do well here.

17 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:56:55pm

there's a pretty funny bible themed photoshop going at SA right now btw


[Link: forums.somethingawful.com...]

18 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:57:02pm

re: #15 eclectic infidel

The 3 pk of Bacon Hot Sauce I ordered up on Sunday arrived today.

I'm thinking of trying it on eggs first, but what do ya'll think? Maybe pizza?

Hmm, why not everything???
:)

19 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:57:25pm

This advertisement is more entertaining in the original Turkish language version.

/

20 darthstar  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:57:48pm

Well, at least we know there are some people who won't boycott Arizona...if only they could figure out how to get there on one of them new-fangled flying machines.

21 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 4:59:32pm

re: #20 darthstar

Well, at least we know there are some people who won't boycott Arizona...if only they could figure out how to get there on one of them new-fangled flying machines.

/I don't trust em, if man had been meant to fly he would have been born with wings!

22 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:00:46pm

re: #5 Varek Raith

UNIONS!!!1!!!
/

Unions vs. Unicorns!

/

23 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:02:51pm

Alabama getaway, getaway. Alabama getaway, getaway,
Only way to please me, ya just gotta leave and walk away.

24 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:02:55pm

Texas finally catches a break. Somebody else has entered the Tennessee Tootin Darwin-trashin contayest.

But do let's keep in mind that the landmark case was Dover, PA.

25 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:03:00pm

re: #17 SpaceJesus

That's actually pretty obnoxious, SJ. downding.

26 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:03:32pm

Have the legislators thought through one bit what actual effect this will have on the children's abilities to get into colleges, get scholarships, get jobs, etc?

27 avanti  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:03:34pm

re: #4 JasonA

Why the hell is believing that parts of the Bible are untrue relevant to anything?

Time for another Jefferson quote:

"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute inquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814"

28 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:04:34pm

While we're on the subject of ignorant yokels here's Alan Keyes touting Roy Moore for vice president and even as a SCOTUS nominee:

Alan Keyes wants someone like Roy Moore for Vice-President

Youtube Video

Roy Moore is the man behind said advertisement.

29 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:04:35pm

re: #27 avanti

Time for another Jefferson quote:

"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute inquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814"

Damn!

30 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:04:51pm

re: #22 Gus 802

Unions vs. Unicorns!

/

Baseball bats and crowbars backed by unicorn farts! OMG!!1

31 wrenchwench  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:05:02pm

I need an additional hand. Double face-palm is insufficient.

32 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:05:07pm

re: #23 brookly red

Alabama getaway, getaway. Alabama getaway, getaway,
Only way to please me, ya just gotta leave and walk away.

You'll never find me Alabama
No, no, no, no!
Being there, it's no fun
I get a work out
Because all I do is run!
In Alabama!

-Wayne Brady on Whose Line is it Anyway...

33 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:05:12pm

re: #27 avanti

Time for another Jefferson quote:

"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute inquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814"

How un-American!!//

34 Randall Gross  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:05:51pm

Alabama -- another of those states that if I must pass through I do so expeditiously.

35 avanti  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:05:52pm

re: #29 Varek Raith

Damn!

Now you know why Texas wants to edit Jefferson out of America's history.

36 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:06:40pm

Crazy in Alabama--Kate Campbell (Auburn Girl, but the accent is N. Mississippi.)

Youtube Video
37 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:06:50pm

re: #31 wrenchwench

I need an additional hand. Double face-palm is insufficient.

Youtube Video
38 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:07:00pm

re: #33 JasonA

How un-American!!//

That's why we have to replace Thomas Jefferson with a real American, John Calvin!!111!!!!1

/

39 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:08:27pm

re: #34 Thanos
Your loss.//

40 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:08:36pm

re: #17 SpaceJesus

there's a pretty funny bible themed photoshop going at SA right now btw

[Link: forums.somethingawful.com...]

It's totally acceptable to mock evangelism in all its forms. I've got no problem with religion existing in society but I'm of the personal opinion people should STFU about it, and if they don't, it's open season.

41 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:08:47pm

re: #32 jamesfirecat

You'll never find me Alabama
No, no, no, no!
Being there, it's no fun
I get a work out
Because all I do is run!
In Alabama!

-Wayne Brady on Whose Line is it Anyway...

In Birmingham they love the governor
Now we all did what we could do
Now Watergate does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you?
Tell the truth

42 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:09:06pm

re: #26 Obdicut
Howell Raines is working on that.

43 ryannon  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:09:09pm

re: #32 jamesfirecat

You'll never find me Alabama
No, no, no, no!
Being there, it's no fun
I get a work out
Because all I do is run!
In Alabama!

-Wayne Brady on Whose Line is it Anyway...


Aw heck.

And that's all I'm going to say about that.

44 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:10:07pm

re: #6 jamesfirecat

By the way after listening to the add... wow is that really what your standard person sounds like in Alabama? Because its like they took the voice in my head that I hear when I think of the phrase "ignorant red neck accent" (is it wrong of me that I have a clear image of such a voice?) and then used the male and female versions of it to voice over this add...

Just for you!

Youtube Video
45 wrenchwench  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:10:29pm

re: #37 Varek Raith

[Video]

That's about right!

46 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:11:41pm

re: #17 SpaceJesus

there's a pretty funny bible themed photoshop going at SA right now btw

[Link: forums.somethingawful.com...]

I've got to admit this now before I forget.

I am LOLing right now. Thank you Space Jesus.

47 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:12:01pm

re: #8 JasonA
There are about ten or eleven distinct Alabama accents, same as TN and MS. Dependent upon region, education, and well.... can't think of a good word. Not so much economic status, because that can be recent. Economic status from a few generations back.

48 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:12:42pm

re: #45 wrenchwench

That's about right!

This might work, as well...:)

Youtube Video
49 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:13:15pm

re: #42 tradewind

Howell Raines is working on that.

By working for Conde Nast?

50 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:14:27pm

BBL

51 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:14:48pm

And for the rest of you:

Youtube Video

A jolly good evening from hot, muggy, Austin, my dear Lizards.

How's tricks?

52 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:15:12pm

so now it's an Alabama hate/scornfest...hahaha!, where is the tolerance?....
don't go to Jamaica, it's full of superstitious, voodoo head, Rastas

53 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:17:36pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

That's actually pretty obnoxious, SJ. downding.


Where is your sense of humor tonight?
This parody sign with Dr. George Rekers is hilarious

54 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:17:39pm

re: #52 albusteve

What are you talking about?

You don't find it scorn-worthy that two candidates in Alabama are fighting over who believes in evolution the least?

55 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:17:57pm

re: #52 albusteve

where is the tolerance?...

Oh, it flourishes along both coasts, in havens like CA and NY.,,,
Except they're broke. Maybe they'll be able to homestead in AL when all the goodies are gone.//

56 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:18:10pm

This November, vote for a candidate that will fight for the right to teach your children that the world is flat. Vote for Roy Moore.

I'm Roy Moore and I approve this message.

/

57 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:18:22pm

re: #52 albusteve

so now it's an Alabama hate/scornfest...hahaha!, where is the tolerance?...
don't go to Jamaica, it's full of superstitious, voodoo head, Rastas

I pay the taxes, I get to mock.

58 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:18:31pm

So!
There was Mexican an Arab and an Arizona Cowgirl
drinking beer in a bar....ah oops ..Wrong thread!
My bad!

59 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:19:11pm

re: #18 Varek Raith

Hmm, why not everything???
:)

Mmm...bacon...

60 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:19:11pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

How is that obnoxious? Especially since going there to look at it is purely voluntary?

61 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:19:14pm

re: #54 Obdicut
But you don't find comments such as ' LOL the South ' off topic?
Interesting.

62 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:19:40pm

re: #55 tradewind

Oh, it flourishes along both coasts, in havens like CA and NY.,,,
Except they're broke. Maybe they'll be able to homestead in AL when all the goodies are gone.//

You know if memory serves don't the coastal states tend to pay more in taxes then they get in federal aid and the inner states like Alabama do the reverse?

Talk about being broke!

63 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:19:55pm

re: #58 reloadingisnotahobby

A rabbi, a nun, and a priest walk into a bar

the bartender says "What is this, some kind of joke?"

64 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:19:59pm

I don't hate on Alabama. I'm sure there are mellow yellow pro-science folk there who just want to chill out and watch the History & Sci Fi channels in peace, free from the crazed creationists and Jesus pimps.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:19:59pm

re: #4 JasonA

Why the hell is believing that parts of the Bible are untrue relevant to anything?

Because being 'Bible-believing' is a conservative value.

For those of you conservatives who didn't know that yet, well, there you go.

66 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:20:38pm

re: #61 tradewind

Off topic? No. Silly? Yes.

I'm sorry, but I am not my SpaceJesus's keeper.

Isn't it near-certain that one of these two will get elected?

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:20:44pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

That's liberal elitist talk. "True" conservatives know that the real test of wisdom can only be judged with a Bible quiz!
/

Quiz me! Quiz me!

68 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:21:05pm

re: #27 avanti

Time for another Jefferson quote:

"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute inquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814"

Meh. Everybody knows that Jefferson was the demon sheep of our Founding Fathers. He has a commemorative plaque plaque in the Champs-Élysées. 'Nough said.

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:21:20pm

re: #11 Decatur Deb

For added laughs the blog "Left in Alabama" is angry that the video implies that Alabama Democrats are liberal. They're not.

[Link: www.leftinalabama.com...]

Reminds me of the lady who said that her gay friends in Texas didn't want to come out of the closet for fear folks would think they were Democrats.

70 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:21:23pm

re: #62 jamesfirecat
James, ( congratulations on the final, btw)...
States like CA and NY break a cardinal rule of economics. They live above their means.
And now they're handing out IOUs.
They're a step behind Greece.

71 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:21:30pm

George Wallace, we need you back. You could help teach Christianity.

Change of views

Wallace announced that he was a born-again Christian in the late 1970s, and apologized to black civil rights leaders for his earlier segregationist views. He said that while he had once sought power and glory, he realized he needed to seek love and forgiveness.[note 3] In 1979, as blacks began voting in large numbers in Alabama, Wallace said of his stand in the schoolhouse door: "I was wrong. Those days are over and they ought to be over."[4] His final term as Governor (1983–1987) saw a record number of black appointments to government positions.[31] In the 1982 Alabama gubernatorial Democratic primary, Wallace's main opponents were Lieutenant Governor George McMillan and Alabama House Speaker Joe McCorquodale. In the primary, McCorquodale was eliminated, and the vote went to a runoff with Wallace holding a slight edge over McMillan. Wallace won the Democratic nomination by a margin of 51 to 49 percent.

In the general election, his opponent was Montgomery Republican mayor Emory Folmar. Polling experts said this was the best chance since Reconstruction for a Republican to be elected Alabama governor. However, it was Wallace who made the victory speech on Election Night.

(source, Wikipedia.)

72 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:21:53pm

50 percent of voters have an IQ under 100, by definition, and an education to go with that.

Guess where the biggest payback in dumbass TV ads lies?

(of course 50% of LGF readers have an IQ under 167)

73 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:22:00pm

re: #54 Obdicut

What are you talking about?

You don't find it scorn-worthy that two candidates in Alabama are fighting over who believes in evolution the least?

no...it's their business, not mine...I would hardly blow off an entire state and everybody in it for that reason....keep your Plastic Jesus on your dash and out of the schools is all I suggest....there are loonies everywhere and on most levels they don't bother me in the least

74 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:22:05pm

As a Texan, I thank Nature's God everyday for Alabama and Mississippi.

Hey, you guys need a Governor with really Good Hair?? Come kidnap ours. And hurry!

75 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:22:25pm

re: #54 Obdicut

What are you talking about?

You don't find it scorn-worthy that two candidates in Alabama are fighting over who believes in evolution the least?

Don't worry. We haven't gotten to the tu quoque stage when former Alabama Gov. George Wallace (the Democrat!11!) comes up.

76 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:23:18pm

How the hell did ignorance and stupidity get to be virtues, anyway?

77 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:23:20pm

re: #57 Decatur Deb

I pay the taxes, I get to mock.

mock on

78 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:23:42pm

re: #66 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but I am not my SpaceJesus's keeper.

Nor mine, or anyone else's.
Remember that the next time you have an urge to topic-monitor.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:25:04pm

re: #20 darthstar

Well, at least we know there are some people who won't boycott Arizona...if only they could figure out how to get there on one of them new-fangled flying machines.

Now Darth. Just because a person is a creationist does not mean that they're necessarily in favor of kneejerk immigration enforcement.

I hope.

80 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:25:13pm

re: #57 Decatur Deb

I pay the taxes, I get to mock.

mocking tax... even congress hadn't come up with that one yet. thanks a lot.

81 compound idaho  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:25:38pm

re: #62 jamesfirecat

You know if memory serves don't the coastal states tend to pay more in taxes then they get in federal aid and the inner states like Alabama do the reverse?

Talk about being broke!

If memory serves me correctly 2/3 if the state of ID is owned by the federal government. (more in UT, NV and others) They do not pay anywhere near 2/3 of ID property taxes.

82 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:25:49pm

re: #40 eclectic infidel

It's totally acceptable to mock evangelism in all its forms. I've got no problem with religion existing in society but I'm of the personal opinion people should STFU about it, and if they don't, it's open season.

I don't care about the mockery.

But those of us who are religious should just STFU?
Okey-dokey.

83 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:26:08pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

Now Darth. Just because a person is a creationist does not mean that they're necessarily in favor of kneejerk immigration enforcement.

I hope.

I thought it was the other way around?

84 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:26:26pm

re: #61 tradewind

But you don't find comments such as ' LOL the South ' off topic?
Interesting.

You know SpaceJ is gonna do that.
Scroll on past.

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:26:31pm

re: #24 lostlakehiker

Texas finally catches a break. Somebody else has entered the Tennessee Tootin Darwin-trashin contayest.

But do let's keep in mind that the landmark case was Dover, PA.

I'd make fun of Pennsylvanians if I had the slightest idea what people from Pennsylvania are supposed to sound like.

They make quilts, right? How much of a regional stereotype can you get off of that?

86 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:26:35pm

re: #53 Reginald Perrin

Where is your sense of humor tonight?
This parody sign with Dr. George Rekers is hilarious

I don't find referring to Pope Benedict as a "nazi pedo pope" very funny. I find it the mark of a Christian hating asshole. I don't find the original signs out of line at all.

87 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:26:59pm

re: #78 tradewind

Nor mine, or anyone else's.
Remember that the next time you have an urge to topic-monitor.

it's impulsive to some....
post whatever you want, and CJ will make the call

88 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:27:16pm

re: #73 albusteve

no...it's their business, not mine...I would hardly blow off an entire state and everybody in it for that reason...keep your Plastic Jesus on your dash and out of the schools is all I suggest...there are loonies everywhere and on most levels they don't bother me in the least

I find this attitude of yours massively hypocritical, given how often you bag on California. Nor am I 'blowing off' an entire state-- that's a silly accusation. I do think that Alabama is part of the US, and that it's perfectly okay to mock their candidates for governor if they're creationist whackos. I'm really unsure why you think this isn't okay.

Moreover, if you believe Plastic Jesus should be kept out of school, then you share the opinion that these dudes are both wrong.

89 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:27:27pm

re: #82 reine.de.tout

I don't care about the mockery.

But those of us who are religious should just STFU?
Okey-dokey.

I think he was trying to say if you don't care about mockery, the feel free to speak, if you do care about being mocked ten you should keep to yourself.

The old "people who don't want to have their sillies views mocked should stop reminding people they have such silly views" bit...

90 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:27:28pm

re: #80 brookly red

mocking tax... even congress hadn't come up with that one yet. thanks a lot.

Denigration without Taxation is something or other.....

91 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:27:39pm

re: #32 jamesfirecat

You'll never find me Alabama
No, no, no, no!
Being there, it's no fun
I get a work out
Because all I do is run!
In Alabama!

-Wayne Brady on Whose Line is it Anyway...

Why do white people love Wayne Brady?

92 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:27:45pm

re: #78 tradewind

Nor mine, or anyone else's.
Remember that the next time you have an urge to topic-monitor.

Did you have a point?

93 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:28:34pm

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

Why do white people love Wayne Brady?

pssst... who is Wayne Brady?

94 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:28:58pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd make fun of Pennsylvanians if I had the slightest idea what people from Pennsylvania are supposed to sound like.

They make quilts, right? How much of a regional stereotype can you get off of that?

Our accents are a colorful patchwork.

95 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:29:02pm

re: #89 jamesfirecat

I think he was trying to say if you don't care about mockery, the feel free to speak, if you do care about being mocked ten you should keep to yourself.

The old "people who don't want to have their sillies views mocked should stop reminding people they have such silly views" bit...

ah.
Glad you understood it.

96 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:29:26pm

re: #90 Decatur Deb

Denigration without Taxation is something or other...

constipation because of taxation?

97 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:29:29pm

re: #62 jamesfirecat

You know if memory serves don't the coastal states tend to pay more in taxes then they get in federal aid and the inner states like Alabama do the reverse?

Talk about being broke!

Alabama is a coastal state. High income states pay more in taxes than they get in federal aid. So does almost everyone else. The feds don't just redistribute, they spend. At a guess, New Mexico is one of the very few states that gets more federal aid than it pays in federal income tax.

Places like Kansas are prosperous enough to manage without federal aid, weak enough to have no chance of getting it through pull, and Republican enough that companies such as Boeing that do business with the DOD concluded long ago that they had to relocate from Kansas to a state (WA) where they could have their own Senator to chair the armed services cte.

98 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:29:35pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd make fun of Pennsylvanians if I had the slightest idea what people from Pennsylvania are supposed to sound like.

They make quilts, right? How much of a regional stereotype can you get off of that?

Shakers, Mennonites, Amish
buncha freaks?
don't go to Pennsylvania

99 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:30:14pm

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

Why do white people love Wayne Brady?

Because he's like a snowball

Cool, but no edge.

100 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:30:22pm

Southerners hate the stereotype that Northerners consider them to be uneducated, slow witted, backwards hicks.

They take offense at the notion.

Alas, if you are voting for these guys, and you honestly think that trying to destroy science is better for this nation than talking about foreign policy or how to fix the economy - with a sensible cohesive plan -it's another bit of data, that yes, Southerners really are stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks.

Alas, it would appear that Maine is populated with its share or stupid, uneducated backwards hicks too.

Looking at all the evidence, the only conclusion is that the GOP has become the party of stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks. It elects stupid, slow witted, backwards hicks. It mocks those who are not uneducated and backwards enough. However, they are angry, slow witted, backwards, uneducated hicks, so they are easy to inflame and get marching in one direction.

And angry white trash, with a victim complex, marching in one direction to vent their inchoate rage at easy targets is a very powerful political tool. Just ask Hitler.

101 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:30:38pm

re: #86 Dark_Falcon

Oh geez. I don't think it shows 'hate' at all. It shows a lack of respect. That's hardly the same thing.

102 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:30:52pm

re: #89 jamesfirecat

So, what was your final grade in your other life as a student?

103 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:30:53pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd make fun of Pennsylvanians if I had the slightest idea what people from Pennsylvania are supposed to sound like.

They make quilts, right? How much of a regional stereotype can you get off of that?

They must be crazy. Everybody knows that crazy goes with quilt.
/end deliberately lame, resume unintentionally lame

104 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:31:52pm

re: #55 tradewind

Oh, it flourishes along both coasts, in havens like CA and NY.,,,
Except they're broke. Maybe they'll be able to homestead in AL when all the goodies are gone.//

Oh, come on. I offered up a California political ad for mockery. I'm allowed to gawk at this one.

105 ryannon  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:32:10pm

re: #3 alexknyc

Why is it we're falling behind the rest of the world in math and science again?

It doesn't matter. The best and brightest are always a statistical minority and they generally find their way into the best schools, do good work and move on into business, teaching research and wherever good minds are needed.

The hard truth is that most of the people in the category of those who are falling behind the rest of the world in math and science barely need to master the traditional 3Rs to get along just fine professionally and socially. America needs plumbers just as much as rocket scientists.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:32:31pm

re: #62 jamesfirecat

You know if memory serves don't the coastal states tend to pay more in taxes then they get in federal aid and the inner states like Alabama do the reverse?

Talk about being broke!

James, we've established this: that does not matter.

//

107 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:32:44pm

re: #102 Naso Tang

So, what was your final grade in your other life as a student?

Posted a few threads back but it was a 92 on the test which shot me up to a 78 % from a 74% in the class.

108 JRCMYP  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:33:02pm

As my Irish grandmother used to say... "Holy.Fucking.Shit."

109 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:33:05pm

re: #86 Dark_Falcon

I agree, some of the signs cross the line, but others are well done and quite funny.

110 teleskiguy  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:33:23pm

Me no believe in evolution. Me think evolution Communist idea. Me go find woman now, make little me.
/≈∞

111 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:33:23pm

re: #100 LudwigVanQuixote

Southerners hate the stereotype that Northerners consider them to be uneducated, slow witted, backwards hicks.

They take offense at the notion.

Alas, if you are voting for these guys, and you honestly think that trying to destroy science is better for this nation than talking about foreign policy or how to fix the economy - with a sensible cohesive plan -it's another bit of data, that yes, Southerners really are stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks.

Alas, it would appear that Maine is populated with its share or stupid, uneducated backwards hicks too.

Looking at all the evidence, the only conclusion is that the GOP has become the party of stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks. It elects stupid, slow witted, backwards hicks. It mocks those who are not uneducated and backwards enough. However, they are angry, slow witted, backwards, uneducated hicks, so they are easy to inflame and get marching in one direction.

And angry white trash, with a victim complex, marching in one direction to vent their inchoate rage at easy targets is a very powerful political tool. Just ask Hitler.

Let's see... according to The Book of Ludwig... all Tea Party members are Nazi Scum... all Southerners really are stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks...

I'm making a list Ludwig... I certainly have forgotten some of your favorites...

Can you help me here?

112 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:33:32pm

re: #82 reine.de.tout

I don't care about the mockery.

But those of us who are religious should just STFU?
Okey-dokey.

STFU in reference to evangelism. I talk about religion on occasion with a good friend; I know she's a practicing Baptist and she knows I'm an atheist with no stake in being 'saved' nor caring which religion is the one and only 'true' religion. But she doesn't get preachy and I don't go out of my way to put her down in any fashion. In practice, I've only had to get confrontational a couple times, with someone who wouldn't STFU about being evangelical to my face. I didn't resort to vulgarity, but I wasn't polite either. I can count instances such as that on one hand. I suppose that it's subjective as to what is and is no evangelism. Perhaps I've been evangelized to before and didn't even know it, if it was subtle enough.

113 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:34:15pm

re: #101 Obdicut

Oh geez. I don't think it shows 'hate' at all. It shows a lack of respect. That's hardly the same thing.

in some ways that is worse no? as we say In Brooklyn, you go hater... dis me an it's on.

114 ryannon  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:34:15pm

re: #98 albusteve

Shakers, Mennonites, Amish
buncha freaks?
don't go to Pennsylvania

They wear beards like the Taliban and drive around in horse and buggies. And they call outsiders 'The English'.

I mean, how ridiculous can you get?

115 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:34:23pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd make fun of Pennsylvanians if I had the slightest idea what people from Pennsylvania are supposed to sound like.

They make quilts, right? How much of a regional stereotype can you get off of that?

I'm from Pa. About the best you can say is that we are rather boring as a state - kinda like Maryland or Delaware or Ohio.

You can point out that Philly sport fans are only slightly more devolved than a hormonal chimp, but that is rather unfair to the whole state. In the west of the State we have the whole Pittsburgh steel town thing, but again, that really is an image of blue collar nobility mixed with recovering urban blight. It is massively overshadowed by Detroit.

Yeah, in the end, we are remarkable boring. But, Amish quilts and carpentry are amazing, and no one should ever turn down warm shoo-fly pie.

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:34:28pm

re: #70 tradewind

James, ( congratulations on the final, btw)...
States like CA and NY break a cardinal rule of economics. They live above their means.
And now they're handing out IOUs.
They're a step behind Greece.

I think there was comment made about tolerance at some point? Or is it OK to point and laugh if it's a blue coastal state?

117 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:34:59pm

re: #88 Obdicut

I find this attitude of yours massively hypocritical, given how often you bag on California. Nor am I 'blowing off' an entire state-- that's a silly accusation. I do think that Alabama is part of the US, and that it's perfectly okay to mock their candidates for governor if they're creationist whackos. I'm really unsure why you think this isn't okay.

Moreover, if you believe Plastic Jesus should be kept out of school, then you share the opinion that these dudes are both wrong.

of course they are wrong with regard to the school gig...as for CA and any massive hypocrisy I have....that's something you have made up....I don't hate CA....it's a piece of ground, full of people much like the other 49....mocking politicians is hardly the same as mocking all of a state and it's citizens....if I have, prove it

118 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:36:09pm

re: #113 brookly red

in some ways that is worse no? as we say In Brooklyn, you go hater... dis me an it's on.

No, it's not worse to disrespect something than to hate it.

119 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:36:47pm

re: #109 Reginald Perrin

I agree, some of the signs cross the line, but others are well done and quite funny.

Well you have to scroll over the link to see somthingawful either you know about it already, or the name is a clue.

120 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:36:57pm

re: #5 Varek Raith

UNIONS!!!1!!!
/

Well, actually, yes, the teachers' unions are a part of the problem. When an invisibly small fraction of one percent of teachers in NY lose their jobs each year, because the union protects their tenure so well, it means that the really bad apples never move on to another career. They just sit there, like a parcheesi blockade on the life chances of their students. Get one, and you'll be behind half a year within 9 months.

121 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:36:58pm

re: #117 albusteve

You talk shit about California all the time, Steve. Are you really denying you've talked shit about California? About the unions and pensions and our financial woes?

Really?

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:37:09pm

re: #93 brookly red

pssst... who is Wayne Brady?

(A comedian. Used to appear on "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" with Drew Cary. Very good improv.)

123 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:37:19pm

Ever notice that those who want you to listen to them tell you all about your religion never seem to want to return the favor?

I don't mind a good discussion, it's the inability of some folk to accept other points of view as equally valid for the people who hold them.

124 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:37:36pm

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

Let's see... according to The Book of Ludwig... all Tea Party members are Nazi Scum... all Southerners really are stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks...

I'm making a list Ludwig... I certainly have forgotten some of your favorites...

Can you help me here?

Well I never said all Walter, you marvelously concerned and pedantic fellow.

However, if these stupid backwards, slow witted hicks are elected by a majority, that does indicate that the majority are stupid backwards hicks.

I don't give Gazans a break for electing Hamas either.

And yes, the majority of Gazans do not really want peace. Does that help you any?

125 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:37:46pm

re: #111 Walter L. Newton

Let's see... according to The Book of Ludwig... all Tea Party members are Nazi Scum... all Southerners really are stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks...

I'm making a list Ludwig... I certainly have forgotten some of your favorites...

Can you help me here?

toss in Hitler every post

126 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:37:48pm

re: #118 Obdicut

No, it's not worse to disrespect something than to hate it.

not if you keep your hate to yourself then it's your business, one you take it outta your pocket all kinds of shit can happen.

127 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:37:55pm

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

I think there was comment made about tolerance at some point? Or is it OK to point and laugh if it's a blue coastal state?

I've never known California to not be in the red. Comparing our state to that of Greece, however is just funny.

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:38:22pm

re: #98 albusteve

Shakers, Mennonites, Amish
buncha freaks?
don't go to Pennsylvania

There are still Shakers?

129 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:38:32pm

re: #82 reine.de.tout

I don't care about the mockery.

But those of us who are religious should just STFU?
Okey-dokey.

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he meant STFU as in stop shoving it down people's throats at school board meetings.

It's almost always the Bible-believing Christian folks who seem to do that, too. Makes me wonder if they read their own book:

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

(Matthew 6:5-7)

130 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:38:44pm

re: #124 LudwigVanQuixote

Well I never said all Walter, you marvelously concerned and pedantic fellow.

However, if these stupid backwards, slow witted hicks are elected by a majority, that does indicate that the majority are stupid backwards hicks.

I don't give Gazans a break for electing Hamas either.

And yes, the majority of Gazans do not really want peace. Does that help you any?

Let's see... according to The Book of Ludwig... all Tea Party members are Nazi Scum... all Southerners really are stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks... the majority of Gazans do not really want peace.

That helps... thanks.

131 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:38:49pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

There are still Shakers?

I think they died out, since celibacy was one of their tenets.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:38:55pm

re: #99 jamesfirecat

Because he's like a snowball

Cool, but no edge.

"White people love Wayne Brady because Wayne Brady makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcom X."

133 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:38:58pm

On Topic:


[Link: digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com...]

134 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:39:09pm

re: #126 brookly red

not if you keep your hate to yourself then it's your business, one you take it outta your pocket all kinds of shit can happen.

That's nice.

135 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:39:11pm

re: #40 eclectic infidel

It's totally acceptable to mock evangelism in all its forms. I've got no problem with religion existing in society but I'm of the personal opinion people should STFU about it, and if they don't, it's open season.

That last sentence is a bit... confrontational. I'm a happy Deist and if someone says "I am a devout Evangelical/Catholic/Jew," my general response is "Good for you! As a long as you are happy with your faith, I am happy for you."

And drop the subject. My faith is strong enough that I don't bridle.

Just as I don't feel that Gay Marriage makes my straight marriage illegitimate in any way, shape, or form.

136 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:39:32pm

re: #104 SanFranciscoZionist
Hey, I agree. And the ad is laughable, and eminently mock-able. That's not my objection. The problem is when a few... not many... extrapolate anything happening in a southern state as a reason to broad-brush the entire region with ' lol the south'.

137 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:39:44pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

There are still Shakers?

Last I checked, only salt and pepper.

/

138 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:40:25pm

re: #125 albusteve
Don't forget Wimmin have no right to be so stupit.//

139 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:40:25pm

re: #136 tradewind

Why not address those people in particular, then, instead of addressing it to the thread at large?

140 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:40:32pm

re: #130 Walter L. Newton

Let's see... according to The Book of Ludwig... all Tea Party members are Nazi Scum... all Southerners really are stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks... the majority of Gazans do not really want peace.

That helps... thanks.

Well, if I wanted to start something here - and it's a slow night, so maybe I do - I could remind you about how AGW deniers are worse than pedophiles...

[ducks, runs]

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:40:35pm

re: #114 ryannon

They wear beards like the Taliban and drive around in horse and buggies. And they call outsiders 'The English'.

I mean, how ridiculous can you get?

Eh, in Los Angeles I'm an Anglo. Also in Israel. English I can deal with.

142 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:40:38pm

re: #121 Obdicut

You talk shit about California all the time, Steve. Are you really denying you've talked shit about California? About the unions and pensions and our financial woes?

Really?

no I don't deny it or even imply it...it's a terrific destination and by and large I've always been treated well over there....you seem overly sensitive that your state is run by lunatic crackpots, or what is the gist?

143 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:40:40pm

re: #130 Walter L. Newton

Let's see... according to The Book of Ludwig... all Tea Party members are Nazi Scum... all Southerners really are stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks... the majority of Gazans do not really want peace.

That helps... thanks.

And yet I never said all.

Nice Walter, nice.

That's ok. I don't think the majority of foolish pedantic people are washed up twits. Just you.

144 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:41:12pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

There are still Shakers?

Movers too!

145 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:41:24pm

re: #142 albusteve

you seem overly sensitive that your state is run by lunatic crackpots, or what is the gist?

Thank you for giving such a vivid demonstration of hypocrisy, Steve.

146 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:41:46pm

re: #131 PT Barnum

I think they died out, since celibacy was one of their tenets.

They "closed the book" of the old Shakers in upstate NY a few yrs ago. They had some young followers who are not part of the communion.

147 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:41:52pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

There are still Shakers?

I'll have a margarita

148 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:42:12pm

re: #144 Floral Giraffe

Movers too!

Tell the movers to watch the furniture! The pieces are a little shaky.

//

149 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:42:36pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

There are still Shakers?

Can I get Fryers with that?

150 ryannon  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:42:52pm

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

Eh, in Los Angeles I'm an Anglo. Also in Israel. English I can deal with.

I can deal with the Amish as well. In fact, I'd love to have them as neighbors.

I hope no one took my sarcasm literally.

151 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:42:53pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

There are still Shakers?

one maybe...actually two ancient Shaker sisters died off I think...but hey!, I used them for meme points!

152 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:43:01pm

To be fair, we should avoid unwarranted generalizations from the Alabama story. some open-minded conservatives recognize that the Bible, or at least the currently available translations, are not perfect. In fact, they're filled with liberal drivel and subliminal messages. That's where the Conservative Bible Project come in (not a parody). My favorite objectives of the project below:

- Framework against Liberal Bias: providing a strong framework that enables a thought-for-thought translation without corruption by liberal bias. For example, the Living Bible translation has liberal evolutionary bias; the widely used NIV translation has a pro-abortion bias.

- Not Emasculated: avoiding unisex, "gender inclusive" language, and other feminist distortions; preserve many references to the unborn child (the NIV deletes these)

- Accept the Logic of Hell: applying logic with its full force and effect, as in not denying or downplaying the very real existence of Hell or the Devil.

- Express Free Market Parables; explaining the numerous economic parables with their full free-market meaning

- Prefer Conciseness over Liberal Wordiness: preferring conciseness to the liberal style of high word-to-substance ratio; avoid compound negatives and unnecessary ambiguities; prefer concise, consistent use of the word "Lord" rather than "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" or "Lord God."

Some work is still needed in several Books of the Old Testament, in case you people want to lend these folks a hand.

153 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:43:25pm

re: #112 eclectic infidel

STFU in reference to evangelism. I talk about religion on occasion with a good friend; I know she's a practicing Baptist and she knows I'm an atheist with no stake in being 'saved' nor caring which religion is the one and only 'true' religion. But she doesn't get preachy and I don't go out of my way to put her down in any fashion. In practice, I've only had to get confrontational a couple times, with someone who wouldn't STFU about being evangelical to my face. I didn't resort to vulgarity, but I wasn't polite either. I can count instances such as that on one hand. I suppose that it's subjective as to what is and is no evangelism. Perhaps I've been evangelized to before and didn't even know it, if it was subtle enough.

The best evangelists are those who quietly set a good example and are perfectly willing to "give it a rest" for years on end. On rare occasion, when the moment seems right, they may gently mention faith and God. Once. And then the ball is in your court, to carry on the discussion and get into theology, or to bring the conversation back to its original subject.

I don't even know anyone who's pushy and in my face about religion.

154 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:43:38pm

re: #140 Cato the Elder

Well, if I wanted to start something here - and it's a slow night, so maybe I do - I could remind you about how AGW deniers are worse than pedophiles...

[ducks, runs]

Let's see... according to The Book of Ludwig... all Tea Party members are Nazi Scum... all Southerners really are stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks... the majority of Gazans do not really want peace... AGW deniers are worse than pedophiles...

Thank's Cato... if anyone else wants to chime in and refresh my memory, your help will be appreciated.

155 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:43:47pm

re: #149 jamesfirecat

Can I get Fryers with that?

No Friars here, just Shakers, unless we're having an auto-de-fe, in which case it would be Shake-n-Bake

Where's cliffster when I need him around to be outraged?

156 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:44:34pm

re: #134 Obdicut

That's nice.

I don't think you will like it here :)

157 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:44:35pm

re: #152 Nimed

To be fair, we should avoid unwarranted generalizations from the Alabama story. some open-minded conservatives recognize that the Bible, or at least the currently available translations, are not perfect. In fact, they're filled with liberal drivel and subliminal messages. That's where the Conservative Bible Project come in (not a parody). My favorite objectives of the project below:

- Framework against Liberal Bias: providing a strong framework that enables a thought-for-thought translation without corruption by liberal bias. For example, the Living Bible translation has liberal evolutionary bias; the widely used NIV translation has a pro-abortion bias.

- Not Emasculated: avoiding unisex, "gender inclusive" language, and other feminist distortions; preserve many references to the unborn child (the NIV deletes these)

- Accept the Logic of Hell: applying logic with its full force and effect, as in not denying or downplaying the very real existence of Hell or the Devil.

- Express Free Market Parables; explaining the numerous economic parables with their full free-market meaning

- Prefer Conciseness over Liberal Wordiness: preferring conciseness to the liberal style of high word-to-substance ratio; avoid compound negatives and unnecessary ambiguities; prefer concise, consistent use of the word "Lord" rather than "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" or "Lord God."

Some work is still needed in several Books of the Old Testament, in case you people want to lend these folks a hand.

They're editing Jesus to make a political point. It's not a good thing. At all.

158 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:44:37pm

re: #146 Decatur Deb

Make that Maine

[Link: www.google.com...]

159 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:44:44pm

Pretty messed up for it to be a slur to be a believer in evolution. I don't know why some feel their faith is so threatened by evolutionary theory and science. I mean it is beyond pathetic to blame the Holocaust on Darwin.

160 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:44:46pm

re: #136 tradewind

Hey, I agree. And the ad is laughable, and eminently mock-able. That's not my objection. The problem is when a few... not many... extrapolate anything happening in a southern state as a reason to broad-brush the entire region with ' lol the south'.

Quite agreed, but you know how SJ is about the South. I honestly don't think he can resist.

My only personal connection to Alabama is that my husband's father is from there. This does not recommend it to me.

161 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:44:49pm

re: #140 Cato the Elder

Well, if I wanted to start something here - and it's a slow night, so maybe I do - I could remind you about how AGW deniers are worse than pedophiles...

[ducks, runs]

good one....that was a great laff, thanks for the reminder

162 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:44:51pm

re: #155 PT Barnum

No Friars here, just Shakers, unless we're having an auto-de-fe, in which case it would be Shake-n-Bake

Where's cliffster when I need him around to be outraged?

Friars! Broilers. Detroit barbecue ribs!

//

163 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:45:10pm

re: #140 Cato the Elder

Well, if I wanted to start something here - and it's a slow night, so maybe I do - I could remind you about how AGW deniers are worse than pedophiles...

[ducks, runs]

Well you see they are. AGW, if unchecked, will kill hundreds of millions of children. By the numbers, they are worse. But that is only if you are the type who believes that one's actions have consequences.

But then again thinking that one's lifestyle will kill children is not comfortable. So it is much easier to pretend it isn't true. After all, we don't mean to hurt them. We just don't care if our actions do kill them. In that way it is also worse than the pedophile. At least they are honest about what they are doing.

164 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:45:44pm

re: #40 eclectic infidel

It's totally acceptable to mock evangelism in all its forms. I've got no problem with religion existing in society but I'm of the personal opinion people should STFU about it, and if they don't, it's open season.

Replace the word "religion" with "homosexuality" in that second sentence and you get:

"I've got no problem with homosexuality existing in society but I'm of the personal opinion people should STFU about it, and if they don't, it's open season."

I have in fact heard anti-gay bigots say just that.

So as a religious person, allow me to tell you to shut the fuck up about me shutting the fuck up.

165 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:45:45pm

re: #156 brookly red

I don't think you will like it here :)

Are you joking? I love Brooklyn. I've stayed there with my friend Jake on many occasions.

Why would you think I wouldn't like it?

166 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:45:54pm

re: #154 Walter L. Newton

Is there a reason why you are misquoting me and picking a fight?

167 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:46:13pm

"... even recently said that the Bible is only partially true."

So when Joshua says that the Sun stood still ... does that mean the earth stopped rotating / orbiting, and that somehow this jarring change in rotational momentum did not send people flying, or is it a metaphor for his perception of divine providence that made an incredibly exhausting amount of killing possible? When Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt, was she really transformed physically or was it a metaphor for a person who was petrified by fear of change/turmoil, shocked and struck down by an inability to let go of the past that cannot be returned to?

The Bible is only as true or false as the reader's ability to comprehend literary constructs and their meaning. People who emphasize the inerrancy of the word of God should not also arrogate themselves to the position of final arbiter of His literary intent.

168 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:46:16pm

re: #166 LudwigVanQuixote

Is there a reason why you are misquoting me and picking a fight?

It's just what he does.

169 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:46:41pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd make fun of Pennsylvanians if I had the slightest idea what people from Pennsylvania are supposed to sound like.

They make quilts, right? How much of a regional stereotype can you get off of that?

Zedushka is from Pennsylvania. He makes fun of my Michigan accent.

170 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:47:02pm

Hey Renie, Floral & SFZ,

Have the boys always fought like this?

171 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:47:20pm

re: #135 austin_blue

That last sentence is a bit... confrontational. I'm a happy Deist and if someone says "I am a devout Evangelical/Catholic/Jew," my general response is "Good for you! As a long as you are happy with your faith, I am happy for you."

And drop the subject. My faith is strong enough that I don't bridle.

Just as I don't feel that Gay Marriage makes my straight marriage illegitimate in any way, shape, or form.

Specifically, my initial post on this topic referenced a link that Space Jesus shared:

Bus Stop Bible Studies: Ask God Important Questions.

I completely understand how the last sentence containing "...open season" could be seen as being confrontational. Ultimately, if someone is ready to evangelize to me, they need to be ready to hear my objection, and if they persist, be prepared to be mocked (usually a last ditch effort to get them to back off).

That said, given the nature of evangelical bus ads, all bets are off.

172 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:47:21pm

re: #159 HappyWarrior

Pretty messed up for it to be a slur to be a believer in evolution. I don't know why some feel their faith is so threatened by evolutionary theory and science. I mean it is beyond pathetic to blame the Holocaust on Darwin.

Well the reason is that they are ignorant, stupid, backwards hicks. Why is it a crime to call it as it is?

173 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:47:24pm

re: #165 Obdicut

Are you joking? I love Brooklyn. I've stayed there with my friend Jake on many occasions.

Why would you think I wouldn't like it?

just a feeling I get... could be wrong.

174 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:47:46pm

re: #145 Obdicut

Thank you for giving such a vivid demonstration of hypocrisy, Steve.

call it whatever you want...CAs loonies are loose...what's hypocritical about that?....forget it, don't answer, you might be one of them

175 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:47:59pm

re: #157 ~Fianna

They're editing Jesus to make a political point. It's not a good thing. At all.

A camel will fit inside the eye of a.... hurricane?.... more easily than a rich man will enter into the kingdom of god!


/Take that social justice!

176 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:48:16pm

re: #173 brookly red

just a feeling I get... could be wrong.

Okay. Why do you get the feeling that I wouldn't like Brooklyn? Can you actually explain yourself at all?

177 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:48:17pm

re: #152 Nimed

To be fair, we should avoid unwarranted generalizations from the Alabama story. some open-minded conservatives recognize that the Bible, or at least the currently available translations, are not perfect. In fact, they're filled with liberal drivel and subliminal messages. That's where the Conservative Bible Project come in (not a parody). My favorite objectives of the project below:

- Framework against Liberal Bias: providing a strong framework that enables a thought-for-thought translation without corruption by liberal bias. For example, the Living Bible translation has liberal evolutionary bias; the widely used NIV translation has a pro-abortion bias.

- Not Emasculated: avoiding unisex, "gender inclusive" language, and other feminist distortions; preserve many references to the unborn child (the NIV deletes these)

- Accept the Logic of Hell: applying logic with its full force and effect, as in not denying or downplaying the very real existence of Hell or the Devil.

- Express Free Market Parables; explaining the numerous economic parables with their full free-market meaning

- Prefer Conciseness over Liberal Wordiness: preferring conciseness to the liberal style of high word-to-substance ratio; avoid compound negatives and unnecessary ambiguities; prefer concise, consistent use of the word "Lord" rather than "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" or "Lord God."

Some work is still needed in several Books of the Old Testament, in case you people want to lend these folks a hand.

I'd help out--I read Biblical Hebrew pretty well--except that I'm afraid of going to Hell for participating in such a travesty. The Free Market Parables have always been my favorite part.

I recall that on one occasion I actually checked one of their 'corrections'. They'd gone from gender-neutral to masculine, apparently under the impression that MUST be right.

The original was actually an inclusive feminine.

They FAIL.

178 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:48:17pm

re: #170 Stanley Sea

Hey Renie, Floral & SFZ,

Have the boys always fought like this?

Yes, it's usually some fun!
Wait 'till they've had a couple of drinks!
(The typos will tell you when!)

179 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:49:19pm

re: #175 jamesfirecat

A camel will fit inside the eye of a... hurricane?... more easily than a rich man will enter into the kingdom of god!

/Take that social justice!

SSShhhhhhh! Glenn Beck will hear you and it will make him cry.

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:49:52pm

re: #153 lostlakehiker

The best evangelists are those who quietly set a good example and are perfectly willing to "give it a rest" for years on end. On rare occasion, when the moment seems right, they may gently mention faith and God. Once. And then the ball is in your court, to carry on the discussion and get into theology, or to bring the conversation back to its original subject.

I don't even know anyone who's pushy and in my face about religion.

There's just nothing quite like a twenty-year-old evangelical on campus who took three Saturdays worth of evangelizing class, and is now approaching you with fire in her eyes.

181 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:49:57pm

re: #176 Obdicut

Okay. Why do you get the feeling that I wouldn't like Brooklyn? Can you actually explain yourself at all?

well just your views on respect, respect is king round these parts.

It is what it is.

182 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:50:06pm

re: #164 Cato the Elder

Replace the word "religion" with "homosexuality" in that second sentence and you get:

"I've got no problem with homosexuality existing in society but I'm of the personal opinion people should STFU about it, and if they don't, it's open season."

I have in fact heard anti-gay bigots say just that.

So as a religious person, allow me to tell you to shut the fuck up about me shutting the fuck up.

Lighten up Francis.

183 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:50:15pm

re: #175 jamesfirecat

A camel will fit inside the eye of a... hurricane?... more easily than a rich man will enter into the kingdom of god!

/Take that social justice!

Eddie Izzard has a routine where he says the rich people just put the camels in a big blender and shot them through the eye of the needle with small jets, so they all got in.

184 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:50:19pm

re: #127 eclectic infidel
It doesn't seem at all possible that if... when.... CA is forced to make real cuts in entitlements that some groups /recipients won't react with disturbances? I hope not, but I would not want to bet.
The difference is that I don't think it is funny, or something to point and mock. It's a problem to be solved.

185 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:50:22pm

re: #154 Walter L. Newton

I'm not the boss of you, Walter, but is it wise to bait Ludwig like that?

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:50:34pm

re: #154 Walter L. Newton

Let's see... according to The Book of Ludwig... all Tea Party members are Nazi Scum... all Southerners really are stupid, uneducated, backwards hicks... the majority of Gazans do not really want peace... AGW deniers are worse than pedophiles...

Thank's Cato... if anyone else wants to chime in and refresh my memory, your help will be appreciated.

Not really interested. Maybe a creationist troll will pop up, though.

187 Jerk  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:50:40pm

"If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve" -Jello Biafra

188 Renaissance_Man  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:50:43pm

re: #157 ~Fianna

They're editing Jesus to make a political point. It's not a good thing. At all.

It's what he would have wanted. It seems most folks are completely unaware of the fact that Christ was actually a fire-breathing conservative in the Objectivist mould, and constant liberal bias in such as replacing the word 'volunteer' in the bible and inserting some rubbish about caring for the poor has led to this misconception. Is there no end to the corruption of liberals?

Apparently Christ did not die for your sins as collectivist parasites may have suggested. He just went Galt.

189 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:50:48pm

From Pharyngula:

"Saying the Bible is only partially true is only partially false."

190 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:50:49pm

re: #181 brookly red

well just your views on respect, respect is king round these parts.

It is what it is.

I thought logic was king round these parts, with "these parts" meaning LGF.

191 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:50:56pm

re: #139 Obdicut
There you go again.
Perhaps an official title....?

192 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:50:57pm

re: #163 LudwigVanQuixote

Well you see they are. AGW, if unchecked, will kill hundreds of millions of children. By the numbers, they are worse. But that is only if you are the type who believes that one's actions have consequences.

But then again thinking that one's lifestyle will kill children is not comfortable. So it is much easier to pretend it isn't true. After all, we don't mean to hurt them. We just don't care if our actions do kill them. In that way it is also worse than the pedophile. At least they are honest about what they are doing.

I believe actions have consequences. I also believe that humans in the aggregate are not equipped to think far enough into the future to govern their actions according to what could happen in 50 years. I no more believe the Indians made decisions based on how it would affect the next seven generations than I do that Druids were wise old fellows with the second sight.

We've been over this ground before.

I think a little humility and resignation in the face of unchanging human nature would go a long way to preserving your sanity.

193 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:51:27pm

I wasn't sure anything could top Carly Fiorina's "Demon Sheep".

Youtube Video
194 Obdicut  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:51:37pm

re: #181 brookly red

well just your views on respect, respect is king round these parts.

It is what it is.

I somehow doubt that all of Brooklyn is a unified, monolith cultural whole. From what I've found, it's awesomely multicultural. Also, saying that respect is not worse than hate doesn't imply that showing disrespect isn't also something to be avoided.

You're not really making much sense.

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:51:49pm

re: #170 Stanley Sea

Hey Renie, Floral & SFZ,

Have the boys always fought like this?

Oh, this is nothing!

196 elektramourns  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:51:57pm

If you go to Huffpost, everyone is laughing and making fun of these assholes in Alabama. I htink it is more serious than that and people of intelligence and good will need to start to think about what we are going to do about this type of thing in the internet age. Look at Maine over the weekend. Maybe I am a bit paranoid but I think these folks would like to usher in the Dark Ages again. Will we let them? of course not but I think we need to take out ads in newspapers and in media spots where people like this can be properly denounced. Where are the churches? where are the liberal groups? this is just outrageous. If you study Germany in the 30's, they burned books and did a lot of "mild" stuff before stepping up the action. This is like a book burning. We must speak out ! People of good will must let these wingnuts know they are wrong.

197 charlz  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:52:29pm

re: #153 lostlakehiker

I don't even know anyone who's pushy and in my face about religion.

My ex-mother-in-law would love to give you some pamphlets.

198 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:52:34pm

re: #184 tradewind

It doesn't seem at all possible that if... when... CA is forced to make real cuts in entitlements that some groups /recipients won't react with disturbances? I hope not, but I would not want to bet.
The difference is that I don't think it is funny, or something to point and mock. It's a problem to be solved.

Entitlements? Disturbances? You are pretty transparent there.

199 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:52:44pm

re: #180 SanFranciscoZionist

There's just nothing quite like a twenty-year-old evangelical on campus who took three Saturdays worth of evangelizing class, and is now approaching you with fire in her eyes.

We have the yelly-screamers at UNLV. They come complete with fetus pictures and insane rants. They also were giving away free copies of the annotated Origin of the Species last fall. One of them was wearing a monkey mask. I'm so sorry that DH didn't get a picture of that, but he did call me laughing his ass off.

200 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:52:51pm

re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, this is nothing!

I'm not even warmed up

201 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:53:48pm

re: #197 charlz

My ex-mother-in-law would love to give you some pamphlets.

Hope their Chick tracts, they're a hoot!

202 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:53:51pm

re: #160 SanFranciscoZionist
/My condolences/.
I'm not letting a father in law ruin the beauty that is Lake Tahoe, but I know what you mean.//

203 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:53:55pm

re: #182 eclectic infidel

Lighten up Francis.

No. I'm going to bear down hard on you for your original stupid comment and for this irrelevant riposte.

204 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:54:08pm

re: #167 goddamnedfrank

"... even recently said that the Bible is only partially true."

So when Joshua says that the Sun stood still ... does that mean the earth stopped rotating / orbiting, and that somehow this jarring change in rotational momentum did not send people flying, or is it a metaphor for his perception of divine providence that made an incredibly exhausting amount of killing possible? When Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt, was she really transformed physically or was it a metaphor for a person who was petrified by fear of change/turmoil, shocked and struck down by an inability to let go of the past that cannot be returned to?

The Bible is only as true or false as the reader's ability to comprehend literary constructs and their meaning. People who emphasize the inerrancy of the word of God should not also arrogate themselves to the position of final arbiter of His literary intent.

The story of the flood cannot be explained as metaphor. It's a factual error in the Bible, unless one takes the whole story as a story illustrating the perils of ignoring warnings while there is yet time. In that role, it's excellent.

The story of the parting of the waters (in Exodus) is widely misunderstood as another factual error. But the account, taken literally, is not inconsistent with physics. A prolonged strong wind, said to have come from exactly the right quarter to have been consistent with physics, could indeed have cleared a passage. Sea levels have fluctuated, even over historic times, and we do know that the climate in Africa was milder back in those days than it was even in the 19th century. And that reindeer roamed Germany. And that there are many ancient towns now submerged, around the Mediterranean. Sea levels were lower then, making it easier for the wind to do the rest of the work.

205 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:54:11pm

re: #185 Dark_Falcon

I'm not the boss of you, Walter, but is it wise to bait Ludwig like that?

Lud deserves it....his inflammatory rhetoric should be challenged...hahaha!

206 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:54:22pm

re: #185 Dark_Falcon

I'm not the boss of you, Walter, but is it wise to bait Ludwig like that?

My... my... I suggest you also include Cato in your admonitions... you're right, you're not my boss... any other questions?

207 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:54:31pm

re: #190 jamesfirecat

I thought logic was king round these parts, with "these parts" meaning LGF.

there is a logic, OK let's say you go to someone's home and have dinner & you hate the food... you keep it to your self. You insult it and disrespect the cook/host then it is what it is. Hence the difference between hate & disrespect. that is all.

208 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:54:54pm

re: #199 ~Fianna

We have the yelly-screamers at UNLV. They come complete with fetus pictures and insane rants. They also were giving away free copies of the annotated Origin of the Species last fall. One of them was wearing a monkey mask. I'm so sorry that DH didn't get a picture of that, but he did call me laughing his ass off.

Is Jed Smock still running his traveling freak show? He's gotta be ancient by now. I last saw him at U of I around 82, and I think he was in his 40s then..

209 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:54:57pm

re: #188 Renaissance_Man

It's what he would have wanted. It seems most folks are completely unaware of the fact that Christ was actually a fire-breathing conservative in the Objectivist mould, and constant liberal bias in such as replacing the word 'volunteer' in the bible and inserting some rubbish about caring for the poor has led to this misconception. Is there no end to the corruption of liberals?

Apparently Christ did not die for your sins as collectivist parasites may have suggested. He just went Galt.

Mary Dagnylane?

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:55:03pm

re: #184 tradewind

It doesn't seem at all possible that if... when... CA is forced to make real cuts in entitlements that some groups /recipients won't react with disturbances? I hope not, but I would not want to bet.
The difference is that I don't think it is funny, or something to point and mock. It's a problem to be solved.

I think that many of the people on this forum from outside California seem much more concerned about our imminent horrific collapse than any of the posters living in California.

This might tell people something.

211 Romantic Heretic  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:55:39pm

Only in America. Sigh.

212 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:56:06pm

re: #198 Stanley Sea
I wasn't going for opacity. You know very well that there will have to be cuts in social programs, and they will not be popular. If the recipients of the cuts sigh and say ' okay, guess we gotta' I will be happy, but also surprised.

213 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:56:08pm

re: #203 Cato the Elder

No. I'm going to bear down hard on you for your original stupid comment and for this irrelevant riposte.

Yeah yeah.

Just remember, opinions are like assholes, we've all got one.

214 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:56:18pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!
*runs screaming in circles*

Was that what you meant?

215 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:56:37pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that many of the people on this forum from outside California seem much more concerned about our imminent horrific collapse than any of the posters living in California.

This might tell people something.

Day after day
More people move to L.A.
Shhh! Don't you tell anybody
The whole place shakin' away

Where will you go
When there's no San Francisco?
Better get ready
To tie up your boat in Idaho

216 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:56:40pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that many of the people on this forum from outside California seem much more concerned about our imminent horrific collapse than any of the posters living in California.

This might tell people something.

DING! thank you!

217 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:56:51pm

re: #170 Stanley Sea

I'm convinced it's the testosterone.
Really.
NTTAWWT.

I find LVQ's language to be very strong and harsh at times, but . . .it's what he does. I know he's not talking about ME, so I try not to get offended.

SpaceJ is always down on the south, would like to give us away.

Sheesh - it takes more energy than I have to get upset at everything! I just try to pick and choose ...

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:56:53pm

re: #196 elektramourns

If you go to Huffpost, everyone is laughing and making fun of these assholes in Alabama. I htink it is more serious than that and people of intelligence and good will need to start to think about what we are going to do about this type of thing in the internet age. Look at Maine over the weekend. Maybe I am a bit paranoid but I think these folks would like to usher in the Dark Ages again. Will we let them? of course not but I think we need to take out ads in newspapers and in media spots where people like this can be properly denounced. Where are the churches? where are the liberal groups? this is just outrageous. If you study Germany in the 30's, they burned books and did a lot of "mild" stuff before stepping up the action. This is like a book burning. We must speak out ! People of good will must let these wingnuts know they are wrong.

I call troll. Am I mistaken?

219 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:56:54pm

re: #152 Nimed

To be fair, we should avoid unwarranted generalizations from the Alabama story. some open-minded conservatives recognize that the Bible, or at least the currently available translations, are not perfect. In fact, they're filled with liberal drivel and subliminal messages. That's where the Conservative Bible Project come in (not a parody). My favorite objectives of the project below:

- Framework against Liberal Bias: providing a strong framework that enables a thought-for-thought translation without corruption by liberal bias. For example, the Living Bible translation has liberal evolutionary bias; the widely used NIV translation has a pro-abortion bias.

- Not Emasculated: avoiding unisex, "gender inclusive" language, and other feminist distortions; preserve many references to the unborn child (the NIV deletes these)

- Accept the Logic of Hell: applying logic with its full force and effect, as in not denying or downplaying the very real existence of Hell or the Devil.

- Express Free Market Parables; explaining the numerous economic parables with their full free-market meaning

- Prefer Conciseness over Liberal Wordiness: preferring conciseness to the liberal style of high word-to-substance ratio; avoid compound negatives and unnecessary ambiguities; prefer concise, consistent use of the word "Lord" rather than "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" or "Lord God."

Some work is still needed in several Books of the Old Testament, in case you people want to lend these folks a hand.

Yes indeed. I just love seeing theocrats use the bible to justify injustice.

By the way, for some real Bible, the worst sin in the Bible is taking the Lord's name in vain. Now worse than murder? As a matter of fact, there is room to believe from the tradition that one can repent from murder - and be forgiven - though it is nearly impossible. Yet God's name in vain, never forgiven.

Why is this?

Well first off, it means a lot more than just cussing or swearing falsely. You don't get that kind of sanction (like worse than murder) for that.

No you get it for doing evil things in God's name.

When you do that, you pervert the message and destroy the credibility of the faith. You make God into a villain falsely. You blame Him for your own evil deeds and you convince others that God is evil Himself.

It means you do not murder and then say God told you to when he did not. It means you do not rob and say that God told you to when he did not. It means that you do not cruelly forget all the calls to social justice and then say God did not tell you to uphold them.

The socons who would promote this evil should be aware of this. Of course they would be if they weren't trying to edit the Bible to become a document of self serving reinforcement of their callousness and hatreds.

If there is any Divine punishment in the world to come, trust me, these guys have earned a special place.

220 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:56:54pm

re: #201 PT Barnum

Hope their Chick tracts, they're a hoot!

We used to color those while sitting at the coffee shop.

The Halloween ones were always the best.

221 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:56:57pm

re: #211 Romantic Heretic

Only in America. Sigh.

Europa has its fair share of whackamoles too.

222 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:57:20pm

To me it's a simple issue. Evolution is a scientific theory hence why it is taught in science classes. Creationism is not science. If you want to teach it, go ahead but do not put it in a biology class. Why is that so hard to figure out? And why wouldn't anyone want to be related to the primates? Primates are awesome creatures.

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:57:33pm

re: #198 Stanley Sea

Entitlements? Disturbances? You are pretty transparent there.

It'll be the Watts riots all over again!! LA will burn! BUURRRRRN, I'm telling you!!!!

224 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:58:20pm

re: #171 eclectic infidel

Specifically, my initial post on this topic referenced a link that Space Jesus shared:

Bus Stop Bible Studies: Ask God Important Questions.

I completely understand how the last sentence containing "...open season" could be seen as being confrontational. Ultimately, if someone is ready to evangelize to me, they need to be ready to hear my objection, and if they persist, be prepared to be mocked (usually a last ditch effort to get them to back off).

That said, given the nature of evangelical bus ads, all bets are off.

Mocking is pointless. Just ask them if they would care to discuss "My Lord, Satan?" I promise you it will end the discussion in a fury of fluttering and confusion. (Nice alliteration, eh?)

Don't mock the faithful, lest ye be mocked.

As for the bus ads, is life that short for you? Let it roll over you. It really hurts no one. It's just opinion. Some people have faith that life begins at conception. I agree. But I don't think *human* life begins at conception. My faith is that human life begins when you have a functional cerebral cortex. It is what we say is the *end* of human life, after all. Just ask any heart transplant recipient if they disagree.

225 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:58:23pm

re: #220 ~Fianna

We used to color those while sitting at the coffee shop.

The Halloween ones were always the best.

I first saw them in grade school. Wasn't until later that I realized how awful they really were.

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:58:30pm

re: #199 ~Fianna

We have the yelly-screamers at UNLV. They come complete with fetus pictures and insane rants. They also were giving away free copies of the annotated Origin of the Species last fall. One of them was wearing a monkey mask. I'm so sorry that DH didn't get a picture of that, but he did call me laughing his ass off.

I have a real problem with people who feel they can approach a complete stranger (me), and present them with The Truth. I have an even bigger one with people who feel comfortable knocking at my door with this.

227 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:58:31pm

re: #207 brookly red

there is a logic, OK let's say you go to someone's home and have dinner & you hate the food... you keep it to your self. You insult it and disrespect the cook/host then it is what it is. Hence the difference between hate & disrespect. that is all.

I think on reflection when you said "these parts" you meant where you live in the real world, thus making my post sort of pointless but thank you for not jumping down my throat about it.

228 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:58:53pm

re: #136 tradewind

Hey, I agree. And the ad is laughable, and eminently mock-able. That's not my objection. The problem is when a few... not many... extrapolate anything happening in a southern state as a reason to broad-brush the entire region with ' lol the south'.

That's why I think it's important that we here who are in the south try to behave - nicely. We'll show 'em!

229 compound idaho  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:58:56pm

re: #215 Alouette

Day after day
More people move to L.A.
Shhh! Don't you tell anybody
The whole place shakin' away

Where will you go
When there's no San Francisco?
Better get ready
To tie up your boat in Idaho

As far as I am concerned, you will all be welcomed!
(native CA)

230 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:59:02pm

re: #208 PT Barnum

Is Jed Smock still running his traveling freak show? He's gotta be ancient by now. I last saw him at U of I around 82, and I think he was in his 40s then..

No idea who it is... I don't pay that much attention to the insane, although I don't think any of them are that old.

231 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:59:26pm

re: #206 Walter L. Newton

My... my... I suggest you also include Cato in your admonitions... you're right, you're not my boss... any other questions?

Nope. I said my piece.

232 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:59:35pm

re: #212 tradewind

I wasn't going for opacity. You know very well that there will have to be cuts in social programs, and they will not be popular. If the recipients of the cuts sigh and say ' okay, guess we gotta' I will be happy, but also surprised.

California shradenfrude.

Don't worry about us, OK.

233 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:59:39pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist
It's often a lot scarier to watch something happening than to be right in the middle of it.
CA affects the entire country.... and it is so gorgeous and unique. Everyone hopes... ....wants things to straighten out.

234 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:59:42pm

re: #204 lostlakehiker

The story of the flood cannot be explained as metaphor. It's a factual error in the Bible, unless one takes the whole story as a story illustrating the perils of ignoring warnings while there is yet time. In that role, it's excellent.

The story of the parting of the waters (in Exodus) is widely misunderstood as another factual error. But the account, taken literally, is not inconsistent with physics. A prolonged strong wind, said to have come from exactly the right quarter to have been consistent with physics, could indeed have cleared a passage. Sea levels have fluctuated, even over historic times, and we do know that the climate in Africa was milder back in those days than it was even in the 19th century. And that reindeer roamed Germany. And that there are many ancient towns now submerged, around the Mediterranean. Sea levels were lower then, making it easier for the wind to do the rest of the work.

Anyone, and I mean anyone who has been informed of the existence of G-d through either the Hebrew Scriptures or the Greek Scriptures, or have gained their information from religious leaders, teachers, priests, rabbi's... have nothing to hang their faith on, since all of that is based on flawed material. The foundational texts are a mess of fiction, partially hazy history and myths.

235 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:59:43pm

re: #213 eclectic infidel

Yeah yeah.

Just remember, opinions are like assholes, we've all got one.

Odd. I distinctly remember once getting the impression that you were intelligent.

236 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:59:47pm

re: #192 Cato the Elder

I believe actions have consequences. I also believe that humans in the aggregate are not equipped to think far enough into the future to govern their actions according to what could happen in 50 years. I no more believe the Indians made decisions based on how it would affect the next seven generations than I do that Druids were wise old fellows with the second sight.

We've been over this ground before.

I think a little humility and resignation in the face of unchanging human nature would go a long way to preserving your sanity.

And I think a little less cynicism on your part might help to make a difference. I honestly believe that if most people were aware of how their actions will kill others - including children, they would start to change.

237 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:59:49pm

re: #215 Alouette

Day after day
More people move to L.A.
Shhh! Don't you tell anybody
The whole place shakin' away

Where will you go
When there's no San Francisco?
Better get ready
To tie up your boat in Idaho

California's great,
It's such a lovely state
But everyone
Is sitting on
A continental plate!

Youtube Video
238 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 5:59:57pm

I've been spending more time with the creationists lately (and less time elsewhere, including here.) It's not so much that I hope to "convert" many of them - on the whole it's a pretty hopeless venture.

However, there are some who are coming out of creationism (and often fundamentalism in general) and if possible it seems like it is worth my time to give them encouragement/help. Often all it takes is knowledge to know one is not alone to help.

As I've mentioned before, I look upon creationism as more of a symptom than a cause. Along with creationism comes an entire suite of baggage, and when one sorts through the mess I believe at the root of most of confusion/mind-death is fear. Many of them are afraid of the "other", which manifests itself in everything from sex to politics.

So off I go, into the wheat-fields of fundamentalism, fearing not to eat the corn on the Sabbath.

239 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:00:18pm

Well. This is largely about politics. It's obvious that these two candidates are stuck in the early 20th century.

I have the perfect solution for Alabamans.

Vote for Ron Sparks.

240 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:00:29pm

re: #227 jamesfirecat

I think on reflection when you said "these parts" you meant where you live in the real world, thus making my post sort of pointless but thank you for not jumping down my throat about it.

well I was, but I figured it was not a big thing.

241 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:01:27pm

re: #238 freetoken

I've been spending more time with the creationists lately (and less time elsewhere, including here.) It's not so much that I hope to "convert" many of them - on the whole it's a pretty hopeless venture.

However, there are some who are coming out of creationism (and often fundamentalism in general) and if possible it seems like it is worth my time to give them encouragement/help. Often all it takes is knowledge to know one is not alone to help.

As I've mentioned before, I look upon creationism as more of a symptom than a cause. Along with creationism comes an entire suite of baggage, and when one sorts through the mess I believe at the root of most of confusion/mind-death is fear. Many of them are afraid of the "other", which manifests itself in everything from sex to politics.

So off I go, into the wheat-fields of fundamentalism, fearing not to eat the corn on the Sabbath.

A noble cause.

242 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:01:33pm

re: #222 HappyWarrior

To me it's a simple issue. Evolution is a scientific theory hence why it is taught in science classes. Creationism is not science. If you want to teach it, go ahead but do not put it in a biology class. Why is that so hard to figure out? And why wouldn't anyone want to be related to the primates? Primates are awesome creatures.

I wish I had a prehensile tail....

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:01:35pm

re: #212 tradewind

I wasn't going for opacity. You know very well that there will have to be cuts in social programs, and they will not be popular. If the recipients of the cuts sigh and say ' okay, guess we gotta' I will be happy, but also surprised.

It has long been the fate of the poor to sigh and say "okay, I guess we gotta".

244 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:01:48pm

re: #188 Renaissance_Man

It's what he would have wanted. It seems most folks are completely unaware of the fact that Christ was actually a fire-breathing conservative in the Objectivist mould, and constant liberal bias in such as replacing the word 'volunteer' in the bible and inserting some rubbish about caring for the poor has led to this misconception. Is there no end to the corruption of liberals?

Apparently Christ did not die for your sins as collectivist parasites may have suggested. He just went Galt.

Good God, that's brilliant.

245 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:01:57pm

re: #217 reine.de.tout

I'm convinced it's the testosterone.
Really.
NTTAWWT.

I find LVQ's language to be very strong and harsh at times, but . . .it's what he does. I know he's not talking about ME, so I try not to get offended.

SpaceJ is always down on the south, would like to give us away.

Sheesh - it takes more energy than I have to get upset at everything! I just try to pick and choose ...

I feel like a mom driving a car on a long trip who wants to reach her arm back and whack whoever is closest. I'll just turn up the radio instead.

246 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:02:01pm

re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd help out--I read Biblical Hebrew pretty well--except that I'm afraid of going to Hell for participating in such a travesty. The Free Market Parables have always been my favorite part.

I recall that on one occasion I actually checked one of their 'corrections'. They'd gone from gender-neutral to masculine, apparently under the impression that MUST be right.

The original was actually an inclusive feminine.

They FAIL.

LOL
Well, all is not lost, since you at least accept the Logic of Hell.
I'm thinking of making my personal contribution to the Project in the First Epistle to the Corinthians - I'll try to sneak in a "Who is John Galt?" somewhere.

247 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:02:17pm

re: #214 Floral Giraffe

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!
*runs screaming in circles*

Was that what you meant?

Basically.

Which we will, but that's going to happen when the San Andreas tips us off the edge of the continent, not because we ran up the electric bill.

248 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:02:39pm

re: #224 austin_blue

Mocking is pointless. Just ask them if they would care to discuss "My Lord, Satan?" I promise you it will end the discussion in a fury of fluttering and confusion. (Nice alliteration, eh?)

Don't mock the faithful, lest ye be mocked.

As for the bus ads, is life that short for you? Let it roll over you. It really hurts no one. It's just opinion. Some people have faith that life begins at conception. I agree. But I don't think *human* life begins at conception. My faith is that human life begins when you have a functional cerebral cortex. It is what we say is the *end* of human life, after all. Just ask any heart transplant recipient if they disagree.

I've got thick skin and thanks to engaging certain folk on LGF, it's become thicker over the years. Regarding the bus ads, no I won't be losing any sleep over 'em. The mock ads on SA are exceptionally funny though.

An upding for the alliteration.

249 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:02:49pm

re: #232 Stanley Sea

shradenfrude.


ansr cloudy, try again./

250 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:02:57pm

re: #239 Gus 802

Well. This is largely about politics. It's obvious that these two candidates are stuck in the early 20th century.

I have the perfect solution for Alabamans.

Vote for Ron Sparks.

Another alternative for Alabama:

Vote for Artur Davis.

251 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:02:59pm

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

I have a real problem with people who feel they can approach a complete stranger (me), and present them with The Truth. I have an even bigger one with people who feel comfortable knocking at my door with this.

Yes, completely. I grew up around the block from a Kingdom Hall, so they were always stopping by... until they woke me up one day when I was about 15. I told them we were Satanists and they never came back.

252 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:03:10pm

re: #241 LudwigVanQuixote

A noble cause.

Said "Quixote "....

253 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:03:37pm

re: #235 Cato the Elder

Odd. I distinctly remember once getting the impression that you were intelligent.

Well you told me!

254 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:03:53pm

re: #251 ~Fianna

Yes, completely. I grew up around the block from a Kingdom Hall, so they were always stopping by... until they woke me up one day when I was about 15. I told them we were Satanists and they never came back.

Always good to answer the door in a cowl and robe and yell back behind you "Hey guys! The sacrifice is here."

255 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:03:58pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

I call troll. Am I mistaken?

I read through their comment history and nothing there triggered my trolldar.
Time will tell.

256 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:04:27pm

re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist

Basically.

Which we will, but that's going to happen when the San Andreas tips us off the edge of the continent, not because we ran up the electric bill.

/oh fine run up huge bills & then just fall into the ocean & leave everyone else the tab!

257 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:04:33pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

I call troll. Am I mistaken?

Maybe, or you might just be hungry?

258 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:04:41pm

re: #245 Stanley Sea

I feel like a mom driving a car on a long trip who wants to reach her arm back and whack whoever is closest. I'll just turn up the radio instead.

My dad used to threaten to put us in the trunk.
We didn't really believe him, but we surely got quiet.

So - my brother tried the same thing with his son, once. Told him he needed to behave on the way home or he'd be riding in the trunk.

When they went to leave, brother opened the car door for his son, who immediately broke down in tears, "I thought you said we could ride in the trunk!"

LOL

259 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:04:42pm

re: #252 freetoken

Said "Quixote "...

Always. Just remember, in the end, he won.

260 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:05:10pm

re: #233 tradewind

It's often a lot scarier to watch something happening than to be right in the middle of it.
CA affects the entire country... and it is so gorgeous and unique. Everyone hopes... ...wants things to straighten out.

I have high hopes for our continued well-being, if not our balanced budget.

261 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:05:11pm

re: #254 PT Barnum
That's so bad....
Laughing anyway.

262 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:05:32pm

re: #236 LudwigVanQuixote

And I think a little less cynicism on your part might help to make a difference. I honestly believe that if most people were aware of how their actions will kill others - including children, they would start to change.

I don't think so....most everyone here agrees with the AGW premise...in your case, you are insolent and inflammatory and mostly love to hear your own voice....it's not leadership you express, it's bullying...and if you honestly believe that your hyper annoying method will have a difference to non believers then you have missed the boat....relax and try to be positive

263 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:05:35pm

Speaking of religious fundamentalists, the JWs have been hitting me hard. For over a year they've been leaving their tracks in the door, and now they are hand writing me letters (without my name, just my address.)

Who knows, maybe I really am one of the small group, the 144,000, who will be saved?

144,000 out of billions of people who have lived (probably 100 billion since our species emerged). Not good odds, but people do win the lottery nevertheless.

264 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:05:37pm

re: #251 ~Fianna

Yes, completely. I grew up around the block from a Kingdom Hall, so they were always stopping by... until they woke me up one day when I was about 15. I told them we were Satanists and they never came back.

I first ask them if either of the two who are at my door are an Elder? If not, than I inform them that I am an apostate from the Organization, and as ordinary members, they are not allowed to talk to me. If there is an Elder present, than I tell them to leave, mark my house on their field service report as the house of an apostate, and I rarely see them.

I am an apostate from the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses... and from any religious beliefs.

265 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:05:46pm

re: #259 LudwigVanQuixote

Always. Just remember, in the end, he won.

fiction is like that...

266 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:05:50pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

Anyone, and I mean anyone who has been informed of the existence of G-d through either the Hebrew Scriptures or the Greek Scriptures, or have gained their information from religious leaders, teachers, priests, rabbi's... have nothing to hang their faith on, since all of that is based on flawed material. The foundational texts are a mess of fiction, partially hazy history and myths.

Walter, my faith doesn't need anything to hang on. Like St. Brigid's cloak, it simply drapes on a sunbeam.

267 Renaissance_Man  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:06:03pm

re: #238 freetoken

I've been spending more time with the creationists lately (and less time elsewhere, including here.) It's not so much that I hope to "convert" many of them - on the whole it's a pretty hopeless venture.

However, there are some who are coming out of creationism (and often fundamentalism in general) and if possible it seems like it is worth my time to give them encouragement/help. Often all it takes is knowledge to know one is not alone to help.

As I've mentioned before, I look upon creationism as more of a symptom than a cause. Along with creationism comes an entire suite of baggage, and when one sorts through the mess I believe at the root of most of confusion/mind-death is fear. Many of them are afraid of the "other", which manifests itself in everything from sex to politics.

So off I go, into the wheat-fields of fundamentalism, fearing not to eat the corn on the Sabbath.

Darwin bless you and all your good work.

268 tradewind  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:06:40pm

re: #258 reine.de.tout
Okay, I'm outta here. Now the posts are dredging up PTSD from long haul car trips as a tot....make it stop....
Night ya'll/

269 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:06:46pm

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

Well said. 1 up.

270 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:07:02pm

re: #259 LudwigVanQuixote

Always. Just remember, in the end, he won.

And someday we may have need of him again...

[Link: xkcd.com...]

271 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:07:10pm

re: #204 lostlakehiker

The story of the flood cannot be explained as metaphor. It's a factual error in the Bible, unless one takes the whole story as a story illustrating the perils of ignoring warnings while there is yet time. In that role, it's excellent.

The story of the parting of the waters (in Exodus) is widely misunderstood as another factual error. But the account, taken literally, is not inconsistent with physics. A prolonged strong wind, said to have come from exactly the right quarter to have been consistent with physics, could indeed have cleared a passage. Sea levels have fluctuated, even over historic times, and we do know that the climate in Africa was milder back in those days than it was even in the 19th century. And that reindeer roamed Germany. And that there are many ancient towns now submerged, around the Mediterranean. Sea levels were lower then, making it easier for the wind to do the rest of the work.

I think that the story of the Flood is supposed to be about the universality of the regret induced by allowing one self to be overcome with blind wrath. Even God is shocked by the shear amount of indiscriminate, and in retrospect pointless destruction He wrought and vowed to Himself (I believe this is a unique event?) to never repeat that mistake twice. It's more a cautionary tale about the reality and nature of who we are, where we come, and what we are capable of than an attempt at historical fact, though there were plenty of floods that may have co-inspired its creation.

272 Digital Display  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:07:17pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

Anyone, and I mean anyone who has been informed of the existence of G-d through either the Hebrew Scriptures or the Greek Scriptures, or have gained their information from religious leaders, teachers, priests, rabbi's... have nothing to hang their faith on, since all of that is based on flawed material. The foundational texts are a mess of fiction, partially hazy history and myths.


The only existence of God is only in your heart Walter..
No pointing to tests...Nor intellectual boilerplate words are effectual concerning God....

273 compound idaho  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:07:46pm

re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist

Basically.

Which we will, but that's going to happen when the San Andreas tips us off the edge of the continent, not because we ran up the electric bill.

CA is not going to fall into the pacific. The rest of the country is going to fall into the atlantic.

274 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:07:50pm

Isn't part of the problem that these folks understand freedom of religion as only pertaining to religion and not freedom of belief? The frequent comment I hear is the constitution guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Which apparently means if you don't have one, they have the right to impose theirs on you.

275 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:07:56pm

re: #172 LudwigVanQuixote

Well the reason is that they are ignorant, stupid, backwards hicks. Why is it a crime to call it as it is?

Well, it's no crime. However, they are not in fact stupid. Hard as it may be to believe, those hicks do OK at the cognitive challenges of everyday life. They do OK on the armed forces qualification tests. Ignorant, well, evidently ignorant of evolutionary science. Backwards? Perhaps few have IPODS, but they do use machinery on their farms. Hicks? From London, every American is a hick.

If you truly believed they were stupid, they wouldn't worry you.

276 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:07:59pm

re: #264 Walter L. Newton

I first ask them if either of the two who are at my door are an Elder? If not, than I inform them that I am an apostate from the Organization, and as ordinary members, they are not allowed to talk to me. If there is an Elder present, than I tell them to leave, mark my house on their field service report as the house of an apostate, and I rarely see them.

I am an apostate from the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses... and from any religious beliefs.

I'll keep that in mind. We don't have many JWs here... mostly we get LDS missionaries (who are at least polite) and non-denominationals who vary - some are downright obnoxious.

277 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:08:07pm

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, my faith doesn't need anything to hang on. Like St. Brigid's cloak, it simply drapes on a sunbeam.

You found G-d all on your own, without being informed by tradition, by family, by friends, by a history of organized religion... and you have never read or been taught by any religious texts... which is the foundation of most Judeo-Christians faiths... if you can answer no to all of these questions, then yes, I believe you.

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:08:16pm

re: #251 ~Fianna

Yes, completely. I grew up around the block from a Kingdom Hall, so they were always stopping by... until they woke me up one day when I was about 15. I told them we were Satanists and they never came back.

I liked the Catholics who came by our old place. They would ask if there were any baptized Catholics in the house, and when there weren't, they would give you a flyer for their church and leave.

Kiruv within a community--fine by me.

279 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:08:31pm

re: #239 Gus 802

Well. This is largely about politics. It's obvious that these two candidates are stuck in the early 20th century.

I have the perfect solution for Alabamans.

Vote for Ron Sparks.

I have his sign in my yard. He has no chance, so I'll be putting up an Artur Davis sign after the primary. He has no chance.

280 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:08:37pm

re: #257 Floral Giraffe

Maybe, or you might just be hungry?

If you're hungry, buy Volume 2 of the LGF COOKBOOK!

Please! Proceeds are used to support LGF (and all the great things Charles provides for us) and Soldier's Angels.

We've sold 25 books, and with a mere $5 per book "profit", that ain't much to split between the two.

Only $16.35 for a great book with great art, Cato's poem featuring favorite lizards, SpaceJesus even appears in the ROFLMAO section, Killgore's Gardening section - wow. Such value!

281 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:08:40pm

re: #277 Walter L. Newton

All new episode has begun!

282 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:09:26pm

re: #273 compound idaho

CA is not going to fall into the pacific. The rest of the country is going to fall into the atlantic.

And then California can open sushi houses along BOTH coasts and we'll be the toast of the Pacific region. The wine, the seafood, the beach front property!

283 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:09:40pm

re: #276 ~Fianna

I'll keep that in mind. We don't have many JWs here... mostly we get LDS missionaries (who are at least polite) and non-denominationals who vary - some are downright obnoxious.

Well, I wouldn't advise you to use that "line" if it's not true. If a Elder is with them, he will quickly know if you are lying or not. There is a "group speak" that Jehovah's Witnesses have, and you can't fool them just by play acting...

284 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:10:21pm

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, my faith doesn't need anything to hang on. Like St. Brigid's cloak, it simply drapes on a sunbeam.

Well said, darlin'!

It is as difficult to be an Atheist as to be a True Believer in any religion. It takes a hell of a lot of faith.

285 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:10:22pm

re: #279 Decatur Deb

I have his sign in my yard. He has no chance, so I'll be putting up an Artur Davis sign after the primary. He has no chance.

Bummer. I used to get really disappointed about things like that when I was young. Might as well resign yourself to the next Governor Mongo.

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:10:28pm

re: #263 freetoken

Speaking of religious fundamentalists, the JWs have been hitting me hard. For over a year they've been leaving their tracks in the door, and now they are hand writing me letters (without my name, just my address.)

Who knows, maybe I really am one of the small group, the 144,000, who will be saved?

144,000 out of billions of people who have lived (probably 100 billion since our species emerged). Not good odds, but people do win the lottery nevertheless.

My local Jehovah's Witnesses have my name and address. I don't know how they got it, but they've got it. I got an invite to some Easter thing (I thought they didn't do holidays?), with my name and address handwritten.

Beautiful handwriting. The old ladies who seem to make up their evangelizing force went to school when they TAUGHT penmanship.

287 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:10:31pm

re: #281 Bagua

All new episode has begun!

Then you better watch... I have 1 hour yet... we are getting ready to sit down to Tuesday Night LOST Pizza...

288 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:10:55pm

re: #264 Walter L. Newton

I am an apostate from the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses...


Aha! Thats it! I get to take Walter's place in heaven!!

Thank you Walter.

289 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:11:03pm

re: #280 reine.de.tout

If there is going to be a volume 3 LGF cookbook, how would one get his recipe into it?

290 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:11:17pm

re: #264 Walter L. Newton

I first ask them if either of the two who are at my door are an Elder? If not, than I inform them that I am an apostate from the Organization, and as ordinary members, they are not allowed to talk to me. If there is an Elder present, than I tell them to leave, mark my house on their field service report as the house of an apostate, and I rarely see them.

I am an apostate from the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses... and from any religious beliefs.

A friend of mine got rid of Mormon missionaries coming to his house for all time by telling them that he was a polygamist. They left so fast they almost forgot their briefcases.

291 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:11:24pm

re: #284 austin_blue

Well said, darlin'!

It is as difficult to be an Atheist as to be a True Believer in any religion. It takes a hell of a lot of faith.

No it doesn't. And if you are not an atheist, then there is no way you can make that statement and be absolutely sure that you are correct.

292 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:11:33pm

Best evidence why most religion is silly (h/t to Emo PHillips):

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

293 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:11:33pm

re: #284 austin_blue

Well said, darlin'!

It is as difficult to be an Atheist as to be a True Believer in any religion. It takes a hell of a lot of faith.

No.

294 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:12:11pm

re: #288 freetoken

Aha! Thats it! I get to take Walter's place in heaven!!

Thank you Walter.

Sorry... I was of the "other sheep," not one of the 144,000... you can have my place in the Earthly Paradise...

295 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:12:12pm

re: #289 eclectic infidel

If there is going to be a volume 3 LGF cookbook, how would one get his recipe into it?

One would NOW e-mail me (e-mail is in my profile and also at the blog), and I will keep it in a folder I have called "Volume 3" (dull, yes I know, but it does the job).

Just in case.
But Volume 2 needs to sell at least 100 copies.

296 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:12:16pm

re: #283 Walter L. Newton

Well, I wouldn't advise you to use that "line" if it's not true. If a Elder is with them, he will quickly know if you are lying or not. There is a "group speak" that Jehovah's Witnesses have, and you can't fool them just by play acting...

Darn. That seemed like a good way to get off their little list.

My husband's ex was kicked out of the JWs along with her whole family because her father chose to get a blood transfusion rather than die. I'm not inclined to want to hear out people who expect people to die and leave a widow with two young fatherless children. That's just ... yeah.

297 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:12:31pm

re: #284 austin_blue

Well said, darlin'!

It is as difficult to be an Atheist as to be a True Believer in any religion. It takes a hell of a lot of faith.

I don't give it a second thought...why would I?

298 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:12:34pm

re: #286 SanFranciscoZionist

My local Jehovah's Witnesses have my name and address. I don't know how they got it, but they've got it. I got an invite to some Easter thing (I thought they didn't do holidays?), with my name and address handwritten.

Beautiful handwriting. The old ladies who seem to make up their evangelizing force went to school when they TAUGHT penmanship.

Do they know that you're Jewish? If they do, have you told them you're not interested? I used to get bugged by JWs in college and I politely but firmly told them to go away and they did.

299 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:12:36pm

re: #277 Walter L. Newton

Now Walter that's unfair. We have all been exposed to one kind of religion or another. How could we wholly separate that suggestion from our own personal conclusions? I claim my faith in spite of some of those influences.

300 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:12:43pm

re: #213 eclectic infidel

Yeah yeah.

Just remember, opinions are like assholes, we've all got one.

I have many opinions, and one asshole. So, no, opinions are not like assholes. And you don't attract more flies with honey then shit, you attract more flies with dead things. Dead, stinky things.

301 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:13:06pm

re: #288 freetoken

Sure that's heaven? :)

302 darthstar  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:13:06pm

re: #277 Walter L. Newton

You found G-d all on your own, without being informed by tradition, by family, by friends, by a history of organized religion... and you have never read or been taught by any religious texts... which is the foundation of most Judeo-Christians faiths... if you can answer no to all of these questions, then yes, I believe you.

You watch Bulamanganao Island religiously, and you question SFZ's beliefs? Fuck me.

303 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:13:22pm

This story gets even more absurd and disturbing.

The group that's funding the "True Republican PAC?"

The Alabama Education Association.

304 darthstar  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:13:36pm

re: #289 eclectic infidel

If there is going to be a volume 3 LGF cookbook, how would one get his recipe into it?

There'd better be...I want to be in the next one.

305 charlz  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:13:45pm

re: #260 SanFranciscoZionist

I have high hopes for our continued well-being,

it's that medical marijuana. 8-)

306 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:14:18pm

re: #259 LudwigVanQuixote

Always. Just remember, in the end, he won.

Ok. It is a nice fantasy.
(Insert poke emotie here)

307 compound idaho  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:14:25pm

re: #276 ~Fianna

I'll keep that in mind. We don't have many JWs here... mostly we get LDS missionaries (who are at least polite) and non-denominationals who vary - some are downright obnoxious.

Hey, the LDS tell ask me if I want to spend eternity with my wife. Lovely woman, but no comment.

An evangelical couple came to my door the other day blah blah blah. All I could think of is wow! your wife is good looking. Am I going to hell?

no disrespect to Mrs. Compound.

308 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:14:39pm

re: #296 ~Fianna

Darn. That seemed like a good way to get off their little list.

My husband's ex was kicked out of the JWs along with her whole family because her father chose to get a blood transfusion rather than die. I'm not inclined to want to hear out people who expect people to die and leave a widow with two young fatherless children. That's just ... yeah.

An apostate has had to actually publicly speak out against the organization, not just quit or leave. A person that has simply left is considered "disassociated," a person who is simply kick out is "disfellowshipped" ... I got the big award... I went all around Dallas to Christian Churches with a program about how Jehovah's Witnesses were wrong.

309 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:14:42pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that many of the people on this forum from outside California seem much more concerned about our imminent horrific collapse than any of the posters living in California.

This might tell people something.

I've got family living in CA. Others who've lived there for a spell. And I read the papers. Vallejo did in fact declare bankruptcy. Is Vallejo unique? CA as a state did in fact resort to delaying tax refunds and paying people in scrip for a while. Your collapse isn't imminent. CA has enormous strengths. But it also has enormous liabilities. Do you seriously think that all those promised pensions and benefits can actually be funded out of tax revenue, without a court stepping in to modify them downward? The baby boomer retirement wave hasn't hit its stride, after all. Today is just a taste of the fiscal challenges to come.

310 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:14:52pm

re: #303 Charles

This story gets even more absurd and disturbing.

The group that's funding the "True Republican PAC?"

The Alabama Education Association.

Lol.

311 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:15:19pm

If you're so inclined and have ~50 minutes to kill, check out this interview with Charles Peirce, talking about his book "Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free".

MP3 Audio
312 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:15:21pm

re: #262 albusteve


Nice try at starting a flame war.

I promise to keep bullying people with the harsh realities of the science. I will continue to do so until the threads turn into discussions of what we are doing about it.

Because if people are doing things about it, they are also convincing others to do something about it.

Given that a year and a half ago, you and many others were openly pouting denier talking points, and now even you admit it is real, I think I have made tremendous progress here. I don't claim to have done this alone. People like Freetoken and Thanos and Obdicut and a few others who have since moved on, helped tremendously. Charles helped the most. I give him the biggest props ever for taking the time to look into it himself, teach himself the science and speak truth. But I would like to take some small credit for being the expert who fought this the most doggedly.

So Stevo, we are making progress and you are laboring under the very false conception that I care what you think or am interested in a fight with you.

Toodles!

313 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:15:51pm

re: #304 darthstar

There'd better be...I want to be in the next one.

You're not the only one!

314 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:15:53pm

re: #300 Jeff In Ohio

I have many opinions, and one asshole. So, no, opinions are not like assholes. And you don't attract more flies with honey then shit, you attract more flies with dead things. Dead, stinky things.

and why would anyone think attracting flys is a good thing anyway?

315 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:16:01pm

If you want there to be another cookbook buy this volume! We have a long way to go. Buy 2! Buy 3! buy buy buy!

316 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:16:08pm

re: #299 Rightwingconspirator

Now Walter that's unfair. We have all been exposed to one kind of religion or another. How could we wholly separate that suggestion from our own personal conclusions? I claim my faith in spite of some of those influences.

Totally fair... the texts are flawed... if you base anything about you're religious beliefs in any of the material there, you are worng.

it's plain science... textual criticism... it's a science... the texts have been proved, scientifically, to be flawed...

I didn't do it.

317 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:16:22pm

SUPPER... and then TV...

318 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:16:30pm

re: #280 reine.de.tout

VERY nice segue!

319 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:16:45pm

re: #272 HoosierHoops

The only existence of God is only in your heart Walter..
No pointing to tests...Nor intellectual boilerplate words are effectual concerning God...

You are talking a different language Hoops. Some things do not translate. He will not get it.

320 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:16:48pm

re: #311 negativ

If you're so inclined and have ~50 minutes to kill, check out this interview with Charles Peirce, talking about his book "Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free".


[Video]

Very good book. The copy I read is severely overdue from the library.

321 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:17:51pm

re: #308 Walter L. Newton

An apostate has had to actually publicly speak out against the organization, not just quit or leave. A person that has simply left is considered "disassociated," a person who is simply kick out is "disfellowshipped" ... I got the big award... I went all around Dallas to Christian Churches with a program about how Jehovah's Witnesses were wrong.

That's pretty cool. Did you get a certificate or a t-shirt or anything? That's an achievement - they should give you something to commemorate it.

(Unless you lost a lot of friends and/or family over the whole thing and it was painful, in which case I respect you for what you did, and I apologize for being flip about it).

322 What, me worry?  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:18:15pm

re: #274 PT Barnum

Isn't part of the problem that these folks understand freedom of religion as only pertaining to religion and not freedom of belief? The frequent comment I hear is the constitution guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Which apparently means if you don't have one, they have the right to impose theirs on you.

Freedom of religion, even if your religion is no religion!

The last time I had someone knock on the door, I politely said I was Jewish and they apologized and left. Later on, I felt a little disappointed. Aren't I supposed to be a challenge? But they don't come around even when I see them in the neighborhood. (Yes, it's a good tihng.)

323 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:18:37pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Totally fair... the texts are flawed... if you base anything about you're religious beliefs in any of the material there, you are worng.

it's plain science... textual criticism... it's a science... the texts have been proved, scientifically, to be flawed...

I didn't do it.

A flawed text does not mean a lying text. It rather depends on the nature and extent of the flaws.

324 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:18:40pm

Sorry folks, we lost a family member just now.

A hawk just swooped 20' away from me and scooped up a lizard.

Probably old Uncle Bernie.

325 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:18:51pm

re: #309 lostlakehiker

I've got family living in CA. Others who've lived there for a spell. And I read the papers. Vallejo did in fact declare bankruptcy. Is Vallejo unique? CA as a state did in fact resort to delaying tax refunds and paying people in scrip for a while. Your collapse isn't imminent. CA has enormous strengths. But it also has enormous liabilities. Do you seriously think that all those promised pensions and benefits can actually be funded out of tax revenue, without a court stepping in to modify them downward? The baby boomer retirement wave hasn't hit its stride, after all. Today is just a taste of the fiscal challenges to come.

well said, as usual

326 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:18:55pm

re: #277 Walter L. Newton

You found G-d all on your own, without being informed by tradition, by family, by friends, by a history of organized religion... and you have never read or been taught by any religious texts... which is the foundation of most Judeo-Christians faiths... if you can answer no to all of these questions, then yes, I believe you.

Hmmm...

First, I didn't say "I found God on my own".

Secondly, I don't accept your premise that a flawed text, or even a flawed understanding of a text leads to a flawed faith.

Thirdly, I'm sorry that my moment of Irish mysticism leaves you cold. I was trying to avert a theological fight with an interesting image.

Fourth, and finally, you can sometimes come on with the theology with an alarming heavy-footedness, but I think you know that already.

327 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:19:08pm

re: #300 Jeff In Ohio

I have many opinions, and one asshole. So, no, opinions are not like assholes. And you don't attract more flies with honey then shit, you attract more flies with dead things. Dead, stinky things.

I've been over this before Cato got all worked up over it in the first place. By all means though, if it blows your skirt up, keep the complaining going for as long as you need it.

328 Unakite  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:19:22pm

re: #81 compound idaho

If memory serves me correctly 2/3 if the state of ID is owned by the federal government. (more in UT, NV and others) They do not pay anywhere near 2/3 of ID property taxes.

Been to Idaho a couple of times. Beautiful state, enjoyed it. You're right. Feds don't pay taxes.

329 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:19:52pm

re: #303 Charles

This story gets even more absurd and disturbing.

The group that's funding the "True Republican PAC?"

The Alabama Education Association.

Both leading Republicans are anti-education and anti-union. Byrne is the sane one, and they'd rather a Dem faced Moore.

330 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:20:02pm

re: #308 Walter L. Newton

An apostate has had to actually publicly speak out against the organization, not just quit or leave. A person that has simply left is considered "disassociated," a person who is simply kick out is "disfellowshipped" ... I got the big award... I went all around Dallas to Christian Churches with a program about how Jehovah's Witnesses were wrong.

And as an aside, isn't that sort of cult-like? I mean, I've said some nasty and unfair things about the Catholic church, especially when I was younger and more arrogant about my not-Catholicness and the church really couldn't be bothered. In fact, if I was sincerely apologetic, they'd take me back and forgive because they're... I don't know what the word is... a "normal" religion

331 avanti  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:20:19pm

Briebert's site sticking with the Mullah Omar capture story.

link.

332 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:20:33pm

re: #303 Charles

This story gets even more absurd and disturbing.

The group that's funding the "True Republican PAC?"

The Alabama Education Association.

See. That proves it. UNIONS are the cause of education's failings.

The state's powerful teachers union has given $500,000 to political action committees that contributed to an effort to attack Republican gubernatorial candidate Bradley Byrne.

333 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:20:52pm

A little testy in here today.

Everyone still mad the Lakers swept Utah?

334 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:20:54pm

re: #303 Charles

This story gets even more absurd and disturbing.

The group that's funding the "True Republican PAC?"

The Alabama Education Association.

Aarrgh! The Stupid, It Burns!

335 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:20:54pm

re: #330 ~Fianna

In my opinion, the JWs are a cult.

336 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:20:58pm

re: #303 Charles

I've been looking up info on this race (because of this thread), and it really does look like a choice between atavist A or atavist B.

I'm wondering if the AEA isn't help funding the attack on Byrne because they think if he wins the nomination that it will be hard to defeat him in the fall? Byrne appears to be well known, and his opponent lacks campaign experience.

Politics does make strange bedfellows.

337 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:21:41pm

re: #324 Stanley Sea

Sorry folks, we lost a family member just now.

A hawk just swooped 20' away from me and scooped up a lizard.

Probably old Uncle Bernie.

I think it just scooped up Sigma's carcass. :D

338 Unakite  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:22:09pm

re: #273 compound idaho

CA is not going to fall into the pacific. The rest of the country is going to fall into the atlantic.

Heh, just catching up but we'll be here when coastal California moves north to the Aleutians.

339 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:22:30pm

The whole "it's a flawed text, therefore the religion is invalid" argument is the mirror image of the fallacy that "it's an inerrant text, therefore a valid religion".

Just sayin'.

340 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:22:44pm

re: #336 freetoken

I've been looking up info on this race (because of this thread), and it really does look like a choice between atavist A or atavist B.

I'm wondering if the AEA isn't help funding the attack on Byrne because they think if he wins the nomination that it will be hard to defeat him in the fall? Byrne appears to be well known, and his opponent lacks campaign experience.

Politics does make strange bedfellows.

Pretty much it, but no Alabama election can be explained in one night.

341 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:23:00pm

re: #306 Floral Giraffe

Ok. It is a nice fantasy.
(Insert poke emotie here)

*smack*

342 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:23:08pm

re: #335 prairiefire

In my opinion, the JWs are a cult.


ARen't the JWs the ones whose leader keeps predicting the end of the world and has to revise his estimates outward every so often? (Sounds like some software projects I've been involved with)

343 darthstar  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:23:18pm

Okay...just bought my book (LGF Cookbook vol 2)...Looking forward to seeing (and making) the recipes.

344 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:23:42pm

re: #335 prairiefire

In my opinion, the JWs are a cult.

Based on what I know, I'd be inclined to agree.

Any church that has an organizational principle against higher education just strikes me as something that's terrified of members having access to critical reasoning skills.

345 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:24:19pm

re: #341 LudwigVanQuixote

*smack*

More, please?

346 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:24:23pm

re: #298 eclectic infidel

Do they know that you're Jewish? If they do, have you told them you're not interested? I used to get bugged by JWs in college and I politely but firmly told them to go away and they did.

I don't think they know anything except where I live, for some reason.

I may have told this story before but: It's winter, a few years ago. It's before dawn, absolutely freezing, frost on the road, and I'm freezing my ass off, waiting for the bus to work. Everything is going wrong in my life. I'm cold, I'm depressed, I'm miserable...and I find myself asking God for a sign. In exactly those hackneyed terms.

As I'm praying, a passing car slows down. A little boy, about nine or ten, hops out of it, approaches me, and asks if I'd like to read something about the future world, or however they phrase it, and hands me a copy of The Watchtower. Back in the car, and they drive away.

I'm standing there, with this magazine in my hand, cracking up.

OK, OK, I got a sign, great...

347 compound idaho  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:24:27pm

re: #328 Unakite

Been to Idaho a couple of times. Beautiful state, enjoyed it. You're right. Feds don't pay taxes.

Northern ID and Souther ID two completely different places geographically and culturally. Central ID the largest road-less area in the lower 48. My personal favorite!

348 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:24:34pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Whether the texts are flawed is beside the point. Whether we could honestly separate the texts influence on our faith from anything else that has influence on our faith, is my point. We can not honestly tell what all is in our faith. We can point out some, but not lay it out like some material inventory.

For example, in my personal instance-science assists and broadens my faith regularly. Science has never diminished my faith in a creator. It has shown me where texts written by people long ago went wrong quite often. I credit the sheer vastness and beauty of the visible universe more than the old testament for my faith. But I can not exclude that controversial text.

349 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:25:01pm

re: #312 LudwigVanQuixote

Nice try at starting a flame war.

I promise to keep bullying people with the harsh realities of the science. I will continue to do so until the threads turn into discussions of what we are doing about it.

Because if people are doing things about it, they are also convincing others to do something about it.

Given that a year and a half ago, you and many others were openly pouting denier talking points, and now even you admit it is real, I think I have made tremendous progress here. I don't claim to have done this alone. People like Freetoken and Thanos and Obdicut and a few others who have since moved on, helped tremendously. Charles helped the most. I give him the biggest props ever for taking the time to look into it himself, teach himself the science and speak truth. But I would like to take some small credit for being the expert who fought this the most doggedly.

So Stevo, we are making progress and you are laboring under the very false conception that I care what you think or am interested in a fight with you.

Toodles!

I have never denied AGW, that seems to be something you need to claim to disregard my attitude toward you...nice try, but it's false and you know it...you have become even more zealous because you have built up a peanut gallery of admirers that drive you forward...regardless, thanks for your undying strive to save the planet and take all the credit you need to pump yourself up for the next round...and if there is bad blood between us, go back and read the archives where you will find that you brought it on yourself

350 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:25:11pm

sup peoples? everyone getting along?

351 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:25:29pm

BTW, Byrne has incurred the wrath of the VDARE crowd (because in the past it appears he hasn't been harsh enough on foreigners.) This probably explains the "English" advert by James... Byrne is likely desperate to keep the racists' votes from being siphoned off by his "True Republican" competitors, but his opponents knows how to work the racists' crowd much better.

352 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:25:39pm

re: #308 Walter L. Newton

An apostate has had to actually publicly speak out against the organization, not just quit or leave. A person that has simply left is considered "disassociated," a person who is simply kick out is "disfellowshipped" ... I got the big award... I went all around Dallas to Christian Churches with a program about how Jehovah's Witnesses were wrong.

Walter, one of these days can you explain to us why the hell you became a Jehovah's Witness and then left in such a spectacular manner?

353 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:25:44pm

re: #323 Cato the Elder

A flawed text does not mean a lying text. It rather depends on the nature and extent of the flaws.

I dare say you can make this point much more forcefully. If you accept the concept of Sacred Scripture, you are required to believe that any flaws, not only in the original text but also in subsequent translations, are relatively minor. God would not allow his Word to be heavily distorted.

354 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:25:48pm

re: #350 cliffster

sup peoples? everyone getting along?

Hey Cliff! I made a passing reference to an auto-de-fe and wondered where you were...:)

355 darthstar  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:26:00pm

re: #350 cliffster

sup peoples? everyone getting along?

Oh, I figured YOU would have the fuckin' nerve to say that!

356 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:26:06pm

re: #346 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think they know anything except where I live, for some reason.

I may have told this story before but: It's winter, a few years ago. It's before dawn, absolutely freezing, frost on the road, and I'm freezing my ass off, waiting for the bus to work. Everything is going wrong in my life. I'm cold, I'm depressed, I'm miserable...and I find myself asking God for a sign. In exactly those hackneyed terms.

As I'm praying, a passing car slows down. A little boy, about nine or ten, hops out of it, approaches me, and asks if I'd like to read something about the future world, or however they phrase it, and hands me a copy of The Watchtower. Back in the car, and they drive away.

I'm standing there, with this magazine in my hand, cracking up.

OK, OK, I got a sign, great...

well considering the boy is 9 or 10 he may have a point about the world's future... oh my.

357 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:26:08pm

bbiab. time to walk the pupperface.

358 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:26:21pm

re: #336 freetoken

I've been looking up info on this race (because of this thread), and it really does look like a choice between atavist A or atavist B.

I'm wondering if the AEA isn't help funding the attack on Byrne because they think if he wins the nomination that it will be hard to defeat him in the fall? Byrne appears to be well known, and his opponent lacks campaign experience.

Politics does make strange bedfellows.

Bizaro World...

The Alabama Education Association is a professional organization that represents the teachers of public schools in the state of Alabama. It is based in the state capital of Montgomery.

Though it is officially a professional organization, it performs many of the same functions as a trade union, and is thus frequently referred to as such by the news media and other writers, as well as political opponents. (State law prevents public employees from being represented by a union per se, hence the designation.) As a professional association, AEA is not able to call for strikes or participate in collective bargaining.

The AEA is headed by Executive Secretary-Treasurer Paul Hubbert, who was the Democratic Party nominee for the 1990 gubernatorial election.

359 darthstar  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:26:26pm

re: #355 darthstar

Oh, I figured YOU would have the fuckin' nerve to say that!

Sarc needed? I hope not...Howdy cliff

360 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:26:46pm

re: #354 PT Barnum

Hey Cliff! I made a passing reference to an auto-de-fe and wondered where you were...:)

I'm going to take that as a compliment.

361 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:27:16pm

re: #331 avanti

Briebert's site sticking with the Mullah Omar capture story.

link.

it's Brad Thor's story and he's pretty reliable....Brietbart is just going with the flow

362 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:27:20pm

re: #350 cliffster

I'm good, having a nice chat. Chicken in the oven, beer at hand.

363 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:27:27pm

re: #360 cliffster

I'm going to take that as a compliment.

Do...it had nothing to do with the unpleasantness some time ago..but I did think of you :)

364 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:27:28pm

re: #352 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, one of these days can you explain to us why the hell you became a Jehovah's Witness and then left in such a spectacular manner?

/sssssh, lost is on.

365 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:27:41pm

re: #344 ~Fianna

Based on what I know, I'd be inclined to agree.

Any church that has an organizational principle against higher education just strikes me as something that's terrified of members having access to critical reasoning skills.

Or, like some serious ones, they don't want to be distracted by the negligible part of their existence that will be spent on Earth.

366 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:28:06pm

:sigh: And in the 21st century no less. This is why we don't have fusion powered hover cars yet./

367 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:28:09pm

re: #355 darthstar

Oh, I figured YOU would have the fuckin' nerve to say that!

haha, I just dove right in, no reading of the thread. If it's pin-drop mode in here, I was unawares.

368 darthstar  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:28:35pm

re: #364 brookly red

/sssh, lost is on.

Tonight's episode: "Is it all just a dream, or a dream within a dream?"

369 Digital Display  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:28:44pm

re: #341 LudwigVanQuixote

*smack*

Hey you! Thanks..(you know)
You know we just have to play chess off-line this year..I miss not playing people and just computers...
I have to show you the Collie Sting.. a hundred year old attack I won with once..The room was what the fuck? Beautiful Bishop sacrifice on the King side..
Talk to you soon Ludwig!

370 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:28:50pm

re: #366 Slumbering Behemoth

:sigh: And in the 21st century no less. This is why we don't have fusion powered hover cars yet./

have you ever been on the jersey turnpike?

371 compound idaho  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:28:52pm

re: #338 Unakite

Heh, just catching up but we'll be here when coastal California moves north to the Aleutians.

You are indeed correct, but the joke is not as funny if CA ends up in AK and the rest of the country ends up in Mexico!

372 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:28:54pm

re: #312 LudwigVanQuixote

Nice try at starting a flame war.

I promise to keep bullying people with the harsh realities of the science. I will continue to do so until the threads turn into discussions of what we are doing about it.

Because if people are doing things about it, they are also convincing others to do something about it.

Given that a year and a half ago, you and many others were openly pouting denier talking points, and now even you admit it is real, I think I have made tremendous progress here. I don't claim to have done this alone. People like Freetoken and Thanos and Obdicut and a few others who have since moved on, helped tremendously. Charles helped the most. I give him the biggest props ever for taking the time to look into it himself, teach himself the science and speak truth. But I would like to take some small credit for being the expert who fought this the most doggedly.

So Stevo, we are making progress and you are laboring under the very false conception that I care what you think or am interested in a fight with you.

Toodles!

Nice job folks.

373 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:28:56pm

WEll time to go read to the yungin' Ya'll have a good night.

374 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:29:15pm

re: #362 Rightwingconspirator

I'm good, having a nice chat. Chicken in the oven, beer at hand.

Oh hell, beer! I knew I was forgetting something. brb

375 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:29:22pm

re: #323 Cato the Elder

A flawed text does not mean a lying text. It rather depends on the nature and extent of the flaws.

A flawed text, like a flawed crystal, has more to explore.

I was raised on Eliahu being fed in the desert by ravens. There are lessons to be learned from that story. But if they are not orevim, but aravim, Arabs, does the text fall apart? Do I conclude that there is nothing to be learned from this text? No, I learn that there is more to be learned. And I keep travelling with the text.

Textual criticism does not close the book, it opens it further.

376 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:29:36pm

re: #324 Stanley Sea

Sorry folks, we lost a family member just now.

A hawk just swooped 20' away from me and scooped up a lizard.

Probably old Uncle Bernie.

The Circle of Life.

TM.

377 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:29:50pm

re: #352 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, one of these days can you explain to us why the hell you became a Jehovah's Witness and then left in such a spectacular manner?

Walter is a hoot...he would do something like that just to please himself...he's got balls

378 darthstar  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:29:51pm

re: #367 cliffster

haha, I just dove right in, no reading of the thread. If it's pin-drop mode in here, I was unawares.

Nah...we're all in good spirits...I just bought the LGF cookbook (so if you haven't yet, get on it!). Everyone is lovely and happy...unless of course you think George Burns created the world while smoking a fat cigar.

379 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:30:09pm

re: #353 Nimed

I dare say you can make this point much more forcefully. If you accept the concept of Sacred Scripture, you are required to believe that any flaws, not only in the original text but also in subsequent translations, are relatively minor. God would not allow his Word to be heavily distorted.

Unless you, counter to all my impressions, personally represent the Magisterium of the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, you are in no position to tell me what I am required to believe.

380 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:30:41pm

re: #345 Floral Giraffe

re: #341 LudwigVanQuixote

*smack*

More, please?


Hey, get a room....and a webcam.

381 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:30:44pm

re: #340 Decatur Deb

Pretty much it, but no Alabama election can be explained in one night.

Of that I am sure.

382 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:30:56pm

IN fact here is a general statement on AGW and quixotic quests.

Just because the odds are against you, if failure is not an option, you are required to still try. With AGW, failure is not an option.

It doesn't matter if the fight is nearly impossible and likely doomed to fail. If the fight fails all fail.

So here is a pledge for AGW supporters and deniers alike.

I promise to keep bullying people, begging people to look, bludgeoning people with data and facts. I will never exaggerate with the harsh realities of the science. They are more harsh than I could confabulate if I tried.

I will continue to do so until the threads turn into discussions of what we are doing about it.

Because if people are doing things about it, they are also convincing others to do something about it.

Given that a year and a half ago, many here were openly spouting denier talking points, and now admit it is real, I think I have made tremendous progress.

It is only step one. When I see people writing stories about how they argued with this or that fool, how they greened up teir act, how they wrote their congress critter etc... We will have step two.

I don't claim to have swayed people here to the realities of AGW alone. People like Freetoken and Thanos and Obdicut and a few others, like Coracle who have since moved on, helped tremendously.

Charles helped the most. I give him the biggest props ever for taking the time to look into it himself, teach himself the science and speak truth. I would like to take some small credit for being the actual expert who fought this the most doggedly - but it means nothing if we don't move to the second step.

383 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:31:31pm

re: #345 Floral Giraffe

More, please?

Like I said, I am taken... But if I weren't, you know it.

384 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:31:41pm

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

No it doesn't. And if you are not an atheist, then there is no way you can make that statement and be absolutely sure that you are correct.

Of course I can! If you Believe that it is impossible for a *thing* (undefined but lets call it God just for shits and grins) to exist that meddled with the fundamentals of the universe (weak force, strong force, gravity, the speed of light, and who-knows-what we haven't discovered) just before the initiation of the Creation (let's call it "The Big Bang", again just for S&Gs), and then did *nothing* to modify it after the fact, then you are nothing but jam-packed with Faith. As much as any Evangelical or other True believer of any faith who can accept that God is active, hears all prayers, answers yes to some but mostly no, and tolerates the rape and murder of innocents in a Cosmos the He controls.

That is my problem with the Vocal Atheists like Dawkins. It takes a lot of Faith to believe that a Prime Mover, who may be the creator of a multi-verse of billions of universes (according to String Theory), but doesn't mess with them, doesn't exist.

385 darthstar  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:32:10pm

re: #377 albusteve

Walter is a hoot...he would do something like that just to please himself...he's got balls

My grandfather on my father's side was an athiest...he used to invite the Jehovah's witnesses into the house for company...we'd get back after church on Sundays to find him shouting obsenities at them as they ran back to their bicycles...happened every few weeks. He just liked fucking with them, then went off the rails when he saw our car approaching to get them out of the house.

386 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:33:20pm

re: #350 cliffster

sup peoples? everyone getting along?

I don't know. We're discussing faith and the future of California.

387 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:33:41pm

re: #369 HoosierHoops

Must be half time!
Hiya Hoopster!
Is your team winning?

388 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:33:51pm

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

Why do white people love Wayne Brady?

You really don't want to be asking that question.

389 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:34:02pm

re: #344 ~Fianna

Yes, plus there is the not allowing of any type of celebrations (birthday, holidays, etc.). I have heard either way about being able to say the pledge of allegiance. You can't get to Heaven unless you follow their extra special rules, added to the Bible, on and on.
I think it's very hard on the children to exclude themselves from all of the extra activities at school.

390 darthstar  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:34:03pm

re: #386 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know. We're discussing faith and the future of California.

California has a future? Cool. I was beginning to worry about this state.

391 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:34:11pm

re: #343 darthstar

Okay...just bought my book (LGF Cookbook vol 2)...Looking forward to seeing (and making) the recipes.

Hooray!

392 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:34:23pm

re: #353 Nimed

I dare say you can make this point much more forcefully. If you accept the concept of Sacred Scripture, you are required to believe that any flaws, not only in the original text but also in subsequent translations, are relatively minor. God would not allow his Word to be heavily distorted.

Eh, don't know if God would really intervene. The Torah was given to us. If we screw it up, we'll have to put it back together.

393 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:34:29pm

re: #328 Unakite

Been to Idaho a couple of times. Beautiful state, enjoyed it. You're right. Feds don't pay taxes.

But they do collect fees on the use of public lands (grazing rights, mineral extraction) although they are laughably low. Public lands *do* produce income.

394 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:34:40pm

re: #380 Reginald Perrin

Hey, get a room...and a webcam.

The more the merrier!

395 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:34:44pm

re: #375 SanFranciscoZionist

A flawed text, like a flawed crystal, has more to explore.

I was raised on Eliahu being fed in the desert by ravens. There are lessons to be learned from that story. But if they are not orevim, but aravim, Arabs, does the text fall apart? Do I conclude that there is nothing to be learned from this text? No, I learn that there is more to be learned. And I keep travelling with the text.

Textual criticism does not close the book, it opens it further.


Very well said.

396 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:35:36pm

re: #384 austin_blue

Of course I can! If you Believe that it is impossible for a *thing* (undefined but lets call it God just for shits and grins) to exist that meddled with the fundamentals of the universe (weak force, strong force, gravity, the speed of light, and who-knows-what we haven't discovered) just before the initiation of the Creation (let's call it "The Big Bang", again just for S&Gs), and then did *nothing* to modify it after the fact, then you are nothing but jam-packed with Faith. As much as any Evangelical or other True believer of any faith who can accept that God is active, hears all prayers, answers yes to some but mostly no, and tolerates the rape and murder of innocents in a Cosmos the He controls.

That is my problem with the Vocal Atheists like Dawkins. It takes a lot of Faith to believe that a Prime Mover, who may be the creator of a multi-verse of billions of universes (according to String Theory), but doesn't mess with them, doesn't exist.

I can readily accept that people might be critical of Dawkins. However, find me one religious leader that isn't vocal himself or herself. All religious leaders are vocal and in fact are more vocal then most secular political leaders.

397 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:35:47pm

re: #385 darthstar

My grandfather on my father's side was an athiest...he used to invite the Jehovah's witnesses into the house for company...we'd get back after church on Sundays to find him shouting obsenities at them as they ran back to their bicycles...happened every few weeks. He just liked fucking with them, then went off the rails when he saw our car approaching to get them out of the house.

I grew up next door to JWs...they were good people and fine neighbors, but then they didn't put their hustle on us....now that I myself am a grandpa I can relate tho...you'd be appalled at what little mercy I have for people intruding into my space....hahaha!....gramps was right!

398 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:36:41pm

re: #394 Floral Giraffe

The more the merrier!

Only with permission missy ;)

399 compound idaho  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:36:46pm

re: #385 darthstar

My grandfather on my father's side was an athiest...he used to invite the Jehovah's witnesses into the house for company...we'd get back after church on Sundays to find him shouting obsenities at them as they ran back to their bicycles...happened every few weeks. He just liked fucking with them, then went off the rails when he saw our car approaching to get them out of the house.

Growing up here ID, I had a number of friends that went on LDS missions. Tough duty. I always try to be nice and send them on their way.

400 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:37:01pm

re: #381 SanFranciscoZionist

Of that I am sure.

Much of this November's election depends on questions like "Are the Porch Creek Indians honest Indians? It's much too late in CST to go there.

401 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:37:04pm

re: #394 Floral Giraffe

The more the merrier!

Ohh and *smack*

402 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:37:06pm

re: #395 LudwigVanQuixote

Very well said.

I have a pilpul with your response!

403 TheMatrix31  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:37:38pm
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R-CA) spoke today at Emory University’s commencement, and got in a good zinger about Arizona’s controversial new immigration law.

“I was also going to give a graduation speech in Arizona this weekend,” he said. “But with my accent, I was afraid they would try to deport me.”

Oh Arnold, you stupid fuckin' guy. Didn't know you were an illegal immigrant.

404 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:37:47pm

Once again atheists are being told to be silent.

405 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:37:55pm

re: #382 LudwigVanQuixote

I think that, at least here in California, LOTS of people ARE doing things about AGW. Lots of little everyday, things. Many of them things our Grandparents would have done without thinking about. Turn the water off while brushing your teeth. Don't water unless it's late in the afternoon, or early morning. Don't wash your car at home, take it to the carwash where all the water is recycled. RECYCLE everything that you can. Turn the lights off when you leave the room. Simple, practical things. They add up.

406 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:37:56pm

re: #379 Cato the Elder

Unless you, counter to all my impressions, personally represent the Magisterium of the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, you are in no position to tell me what I am required to believe.

Wouldn't dream of it - I actually have no idea what you believe in. My point is that those who accept the concept of Sacred Scripture should also accept that it hasn't suffered serious distortions.

407 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:38:15pm

On a related note, it looks like Thanos is going to have to work overtime to keep his state from slipping back into the dark ages:

INSIGHT KANSAS: Move over Arizona: Kansas Legislature is coming through

[...] A new governor will be occupying Cedar Crest come 2011. In all likelihood, his name will be Sam Brownback. Brownback’s brand of conservatism falls more in line with the [Kansas] House and [Kansas] Senate conservatives versus the Moderate Coalition.

Brownback, schooled in the hyper-partisan politics of Washington, D.C., is not likely to rely on Democrats for anything and is very likely to punish Republican legislators who stray from the party line. Even though this does not doom the Moderate Coalition per se, Brownback’s presence in Cedar Crest alters the conditions by which the coalition was able to win so many battles over the past decade.

So, with Brownback large and in-charge and the Moderate Coalition shelved for the time being, what can we expect from Topeka next year? The strongest clues come from Arizona. After Democratic Governor Janet Napolitano was confirmed as Secretary for Homeland Security, Republican Lt. Governor Jan Brewer replaced her. Upon swearing in, Governor Brewer made it clear that she was ready to sign a backlog of conservative legislation. Since January 2010, Arizona’s state legislature has become a beacon among conservatives nationally; passing new illegal immigration enforcement measures, reforms allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons without training or permits, restrictions on embryonic cell research, and a law forbidding the teaching ethnic solidarity.

Compared to their Arizona counterparts, Kansas’s conservative Republican lawmakers have an even longer backlog of initiatives, all of which have been held at bay for eight years by the Moderate Coalition and Democratic governors. The list includes the standard litany of spending cuts, many pointed at K-12 education, TaBoR legislation, restricting the growth of state spending to the inflation rate and population growth, elimination of the state income tax, and deregulation. The leaders of the Kansas Chamber of Commerce and Industry will find much comfort in this agenda.

But that is not all. Brownback and his conservative legislative allies can be expected to support creationism in public schools, a pilot school voucher program, immigration reforms following the outlines of legislation passed by Arizona, written by Chris Kobach, and new limits on access to abortions, perhaps matching or surpassing the efforts of our neighbors in Nebraska. [....]

408 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:38:21pm

re: #402 austin_blue

I have a pilpul with your response!

my pilpul is inside my eyeball I think

409 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:38:31pm

re: #402 austin_blue

I have a pilpul with your response!

You have a pilpul with very well said?

pilpul away - and props for using the word. A pilpul is a difficult logic puzzle.

410 Digital Display  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:38:51pm

re: #387 Floral Giraffe

Must be half time!
Hiya Hoopster!
Is your team winning?

Hi you! Halftime report is almost over...
Go Celts!

411 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:39:04pm

re: #382 LudwigVanQuixote

As to step two-some things I had linked from the online version already-

Discover Magazine June Issue
The Five Year Energy Fix issue. Great stuff. Stuff we can do ourselves. Great news like mini nuke reactors first to be installed in old nuke plant locations-a dozen mini's in a pre approved nuclear site-developing the safety operational database for safe installation in factories or small towns.

412 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:39:25pm

re: #397 albusteve

I grew up next door to JWs...they were good people and fine neighbors, but then they didn't put their hustle on us...now that I myself am a grandpa I can relate tho...you'd be appalled at what little mercy I have for people intruding into my space...hahaha!...gramps was right!

I was amazed at how easily I could imagine separating a windpipe from a thorax after I had kids.

413 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:39:27pm

re: #404 Gus 802

Once again atheists are being told to be silent.

Shut up unbeliever!

///

C'mon, I wrote a giant discussion the other day about how guys like you keep guys like me honest.

414 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:39:29pm

re: #404 Gus 802

Once again atheists are being told to be silent.

I have nothing to say anyway...it's not a socio/political tool

415 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:39:38pm

re: #410 HoosierHoops

I really enjoy watching LeBron.

He'll get his chance for several rings.

I just hope it's after he comes to the Celtics.

416 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:39:44pm

re: #396 Gus 802

I can readily accept that people might be critical of Dawkins. However, find me one religious leader that isn't vocal himself or herself. All religious leaders are vocal and in fact are more vocal then most secular political leaders.

You make my point exactly. Atheism is as much a faith-based philosophy as any other religion. And as unprovable in a secular world until such time as the Flying Spaghetti Monster gets his Noodly Appendages down here and sets us straight.

417 Unakite  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:39:55pm

re: #347 compound idaho

Northern ID and Souther ID two completely different places geographically and culturally. Central ID the largest road-less area in the lower 48. My personal favorite!

Still behind (but hopefully catching up). Been north, south & west (spent six weeks in Moscow). From VA, but enjoyed Idaho.

418 compound idaho  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:39:59pm

re: #393 austin_blue

But they do collect fees on the use of public lands (grazing rights, mineral extraction) although they are laughably low. Public lands *do* produce income.

And tourism right. Tourists change their underwear more often than changing a $20. (not all that often)

419 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:40:01pm

re: #382 LudwigVanQuixote

IN fact here is a general statement on AGW and quixotic quests.

Just because the odds are against you, if failure is not an option, you are required to still try. With AGW, failure is not an option.

It doesn't matter if the fight is nearly impossible and likely doomed to fail. If the fight fails all fail.

So here is a pledge for AGW supporters and deniers alike.

I promise to keep bullying people, begging people to look, bludgeoning people with data and facts. I will never exaggerate with the harsh realities of the science. They are more harsh than I could confabulate if I tried.

I will continue to do so until the threads turn into discussions of what we are doing about it.

Because if people are doing things about it, they are also convincing others to do something about it.

Given that a year and a half ago, many here were openly spouting denier talking points, and now admit it is real, I think I have made tremendous progress.

It is only step one. When I see people writing stories about how they argued with this or that fool, how they greened up teir act, how they wrote their congress critter etc... We will have step two.

I don't claim to have swayed people here to the realities of AGW alone. People like Freetoken and Thanos and Obdicut and a few others, like Coracle who have since moved on, helped tremendously.

Charles helped the most. I give him the biggest props ever for taking the time to look into it himself, teach himself the science and speak truth. I would like to take some small credit for being the actual expert who fought this the most doggedly - but it means nothing if we don't move to the second step.

I think, if you are waiting for threads to turn into what you want them to be, you will be permanently frustrated and angry, and you will still never get what you want.

Perhaps it's time to start your own blog? I would read it.

420 engineer cat  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:40:07pm

Moron vs. Moron

can we make it a regular feature like Spy vs. Spy?

421 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:40:35pm

re: #404 Gus 802

Once again atheists are being told to be silent.

By whom?

422 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:40:46pm

re: #412 prairiefire

I was amazed at how easily I could imagine separating a windpipe from a thorax after I had kids.

that notion leaves me speechless

423 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:41:00pm

re: #370 brookly red

have you ever been on the jersey turnpike?

Which exit... (LOST starts in 20 minutes)

424 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:41:32pm

re: #406 Nimed

Wouldn't dream of it - I actually have no idea what you believe in. My point is that those who accept the concept of Sacred Scripture should also accept that it hasn't suffered serious distortions.

That is nonsense.

425 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:41:35pm

re: #405 Floral Giraffe

I think that, at least here in California, LOTS of people ARE doing things about AGW. Lots of little everyday, things. Many of them things our Grandparents would have done without thinking about. Turn the water off while brushing your teeth. Don't water unless it's late in the afternoon, or early morning. Don't wash your car at home, take it to the carwash where all the water is recycled. RECYCLE everything that you can. Turn the lights off when you leave the room. Simple, practical things. They add up.

Yes they do. That is wonderful stuff.

I think that if people realized just how much those little things do add up they would feel more confident that doing something is actually possible. We have the technology to fix the problems. We need the will to deploy it. People who are already doing those little things are committed. They should be publicly thanked.

I propose telling them in public how cool they are for doing something.

The more positive feedback, the bigger the movement.

426 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:41:46pm

re: #420 engineer dog

Too many morons to choose from...

427 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:42:16pm

re: #404 Gus 802

Once again atheists are being told to be silent.

I don't want Atheists to be silent, I want them to be honest and self-aware.

428 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:42:23pm

re: #423 Walter L. Newton

Which exit... (LOST starts in 20 minutes)

dose it matter which exit? your still in jersey...

429 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:42:26pm

I wonder if I can make polenta in my rice cooker.

430 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:42:59pm

re: #429 Killgore Trout

I wonder if I can make polenta in my rice cooker.

well you can I am sure... but why?

431 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:43:16pm

re: #425 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes they do. That is wonderful stuff.

I think that if people realized just how much those little things do add up they would feel more confident that doing something is actually possible. We have the technology to fix the problems. We need the will to deploy it. People who are already doing those little things are committed. They should be publicly thanked.

I propose telling them in public how cool they are for doing something.

The more positive feedback, the bigger the movement.



you're catching on after all

432 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:43:24pm

re: #411 Rightwingconspirator

As to step two-some things I had linked from the online version already-

Discover Magazine June Issue
The Five Year Energy Fix issue. Great stuff. Stuff we can do ourselves. Great news like mini nuke reactors first to be installed in old nuke plant locations-a dozen mini's in a pre approved nuclear site-developing the safety operational database for safe installation in factories or small towns.

Brilliant! This is exactly the sort of thing we should be encouraging. That and actually getting clear on the science of power generation and the economics of oil. The little fixes are hugely important, but to really lick the problem, educated folks need to put loud and cohesive vocal pressure on politicians.

433 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:43:38pm

re: #396 Gus 802

I can readily accept that people might be critical of Dawkins. However, find me one religious leader that isn't vocal himself or herself. All religious leaders are vocal and in fact are more vocal then most secular political leaders.

In America, there are no secular political leaders.

434 Unakite  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:44:05pm

re: #371 compound idaho

You are indeed correct, but the joke is not as funny if CA ends up in AK and the rest of the country ends up in Mexico!

No worries. Mexico is going to end up here.
//Just kidding!!

435 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:44:08pm

re: #428 brookly red

dose it matter which exit? your still in jersey...

Which is a wonderful thing. It would be even more wonderful if the taxes weren't so ridiculously high.

436 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:44:14pm

re: #427 austin_blue

I don't want Atheists to be silent, I want them to be honest and self-aware.

And if I said I want Catholics to be honest and self-aware what would the response be? Not that I would dare ask such a question since it's none of my business and I cannot know where my fellow human beings are coming from.

437 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:44:21pm

There is this line I've been contemplating.

On one side of this line are you average "I'm glad I'm alive and here to enjoy this life" people.

On the other side of this line are your average "This life is just a unimportant means to an "afterlife" which is much more important and appealing than the current reality" people.

While respecting every person's right to believe and live how they want I would like to make this practical suggestion.

If you happen to be a member of group B, please refrain from involving yourself in the current reality and those of us who wish to be here. Chase your afterlife, do your thing but keep it to yourself and with those who share your perspective.

I firmly believe that the majority of folks who call themselves "religious" are NOT a member of group B. I firmly believe that these two yokels are most definitely members of group B.

438 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:44:35pm

re: #428 brookly red

dose it matter which exit? your still in jersey...

I liked Jersey, when I lived there, which was the very northern part, Lake Hopatcong... it was country, not city at all. Two summers, worked at Casino Pier at Seaside Heights, operating two rides in the kiddieland part of the amusement area. Winters were worst than here in Colorado...

439 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:44:36pm

“True Republican PAC”

It's like someone called in the friggin no true Scotsman cavalry.

440 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:44:56pm

re: #422 albusteve

that notion leaves me speechless

If some one was coming after my girl or my boy, I think I could do it.

441 brookly red  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:45:02pm

re: #435 NJDhockeyfan

Which is a wonderful thing. It would be even more wonderful if the taxes weren't so ridiculously high.

well you do have an interesting new Governor...

442 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:45:10pm

re: #430 brookly red

well you can I am sure... but why?

Saves on cleanup, it also acts sort of like a "low pressure" pressure cooker.

443 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:45:13pm

Back to our cover topic-I guess the Alabama GOP make me feel much better about the California GOP. Not that it ever wins anything, but ... well never mind.

444 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:45:13pm

Over the past couple of weeks I've been monitoring "creationism" in the news (via google and other feeds.)

Interesting to watch local newspapers as they churn week after week in their "letters to the editor" sections, on the issue of evolution and creationism.

One such example is the Sioux Falls Argus Leader, which has had a tit-for-tat going on for a few weeks. The letters, and comments on them, are full of long discredited talking points... eg:

bumpy02 wrote:
If apes evolved into humans then why are there still apes? Did a couple of ape friends decide that they were going to resist evolving. Last time I went to the zoo if an ape mated with an ape then they had a baby ape. The once succesfully mated a bulldog with a Shitzu and got a Bullsh*t but either way it was still a dog. Why do we still very cleary have humans and apes...where did all of the evolving apes go that were half man half ape? Why have humans not evolved into something else now? Did evolution decide that humans were the end so it should just stop there?
5/11/2010 3:24:00 PM

I keep reminding myself that as long as people keep having babies we will have no end to these sort of dead ends...

445 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:45:22pm

re: #419 Cato the Elder

I think, if you are waiting for threads to turn into what you want them to be, you will be permanently frustrated and angry, and you will still never get what you want.

Perhaps it's time to start your own blog? I would read it.

Please Cato, be less of a buzz kill. I don't want to start my own blog, I don't have the time. What I want to do, is have AGW discussions shift more to discussing what we are doing to fix the problem.

If people here believe the science, then we should all act like it.

446 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:46:00pm

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

Eh, don't know if God would really intervene. The Torah was given to us. If we screw it up, we'll have to put it back together.

But who do you mean by "we"? Would God allow our remote ancestors to make such a poor job that all subsequent generations who didn't understand Hebrew would be deprived of His Word?

(note: I'm an atheist, but I'm not being flippant here)

447 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:46:09pm

re: #405 Floral Giraffe

I think that, at least here in California, LOTS of people ARE doing things about AGW. Lots of little everyday, things. Many of them things our Grandparents would have done without thinking about. Turn the water off while brushing your teeth. Don't water unless it's late in the afternoon, or early morning. Don't wash your car at home, take it to the carwash where all the water is recycled. RECYCLE everything that you can. Turn the lights off when you leave the room. Simple, practical things. They add up.

I also feel like the general public is very supportive of alternative energy in this state. We have our issues getting things up and running (wind farms, solar, etc) but our citizens are actively aware in most cases. Now we just need to ditch that nuclear moratorium...

448 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:46:13pm

Dayton, Tennessee - Clip from the BBC1 documentary 'Science Friction: Creation' circa 1996

Youtube Video
449 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:46:17pm

re: #441 brookly red

well you do have an interesting new Governor...

Let's hope he turns that state around. I might contemplate moving back if it gets better. He has a lot of work to do.

450 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:46:22pm

re: #445 LudwigVanQuixote

LGF Pages. You already have it.

451 compound idaho  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:46:23pm

re: #434 Unakite

No worries. Mexico is going to end up here.
//Just kidding!!

Right lateral fault or are you discussing demographics? ;)

452 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:46:27pm

re: #352 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, one of these days can you explain to us why the hell you became a Jehovah's Witness and then left in such a spectacular manner?

Truth.

453 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:46:30pm

re: #409 LudwigVanQuixote

You have a pilpul with very well said?

pilpul away - and props for using the word. A pilpul is a difficult logic puzzle.

Ah! Was it very well said because of its construction, its content, or its relation to the truth in Torah?

454 Digital Display  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:47:20pm

re: #415 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I really enjoy watching LeBron.

He'll get his chance for several rings.

I just hope it's after he comes to the Celtics.

You can't help it as a fan..I grew up watching baseball at Candlestick..I love the Giants..I watched Golden State since I was a little kid..When we won the World Championship in 75 I was in Heaven..But for some reason I have always loved the Celts and Red Sox's.. I love all things Boston..I don't know why..So Sue me!
*wink*

455 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:47:41pm

re: #453 austin_blue

Ah! Was it very well said because of its construction, its content, or its relation to the truth in Torah?

yes.

456 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:47:51pm

re: #440 prairiefire

If some one was coming after my girl or my boy, I think I could do it.

I know I could in that case

457 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:48:16pm

re: #450 Rightwingconspirator

LGF Pages. You already have it.

Yes I do, I need to spend a day - I am planning on it, posting like 100 links with descriptions.

458 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:48:31pm

Go LeBron! You are superhuman.. come claim what is your due!

howdy HH ;)

459 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:48:36pm

re: #432 LudwigVanQuixote

Brilliant! This is exactly the sort of thing we should be encouraging. That and actually getting clear on the science of power generation and the economics of oil. The little fixes are hugely important, but to really lick the problem, educated folks need to put loud and cohesive vocal pressure on politicians.

We're still years away from that last. The smug* emitted by the Deniers will still take a long time to blow away enough for people to see through it.

460 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:48:48pm

re: #421 SanFranciscoZionist

By whom?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive. I've got that unfortunate personality trait which bubbles up from time to time.

461 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:49:02pm

Chilean police detain Pakistani in US Embassy

SANTIAGO, Chile – Traces of explosives were found on a Pakistani man who was summoned to the U.S. Embassy because his U.S. visa had been revoked, authorities said Tuesday, and a Chilean judge ordered him held in a high-security prison under anti-terrorism laws.

Mohammed Saif-ur-Rehman Khan, 28, was detained Monday after the embassy's detectors were set off by traces of bomb-making material, said Mario Schilling, a Chilean prosecutor's spokesman. Schilling did not elaborate on what kind of explosives were involved or provide more details about the case.

U.S. Ambassador Paul Simon said there was not any indication that the embassy was a target of a attack.

A judge agreed on Tuesday to keep Khan behind bars for five more days under Chile's anti-terrorism law to give more time for the investigation. Khan has not been charged with any crime.

462 What, me worry?  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:49:39pm

re: #437 Locker

There is this line I've been contemplating.

On one side of this line are you average "I'm glad I'm alive and here to enjoy this life" people.

On the other side of this line are your average "This life is just a unimportant means to an "afterlife" which is much more important and appealing than the current reality" people.

While respecting every person's right to believe and live how they want I would like to make this practical suggestion.

If you happen to be a member of group B, please refrain from involving yourself in the current reality and those of us who wish to be here. Chase your afterlife, do your thing but keep it to yourself and with those who share your perspective.

I firmly believe that the majority of folks who call themselves "religious" are NOT a member of group B. I firmly believe that these two yokels are most definitely members of group B.

You know what I found out? The most gossipy, cattiest, mean-spirited women at work have daily "revelations" about God on their facebook, telling everyone not to be gossipy, catty and mean-spirited. ...sigh...

463 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:49:54pm

re: #446 Nimed

But who do you mean by "we"? Would God allow our remote ancestors to make such a poor job that all subsequent generations who didn't understand Hebrew would be deprived of His Word?

(note: I'm an atheist, but I'm not being flippant here)

I always wondered about the faith required to be an atheist. Personally that's my problem with religion... the whole faith thing and atheism demanded no less faith than any of the theistic heavy hitters.

464 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:49:57pm

re: #459 Dark_Falcon

We're still years away from that last. The smug* emitted by the Deniers will still take a long time to blow away enough for people to see through it.

I love it... we can talk about AGW deniers and believers in a g-d, all in the same thread and expect to be taken seriously.

465 engineer cat  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:50:01pm

in this country, the voices of conformity and puritanicalism are still so loud and insistant that atheists and actual real live socialists or communists hardly dare speak up

a poll recently asking "would you vote for a..." (woman, muslim, catholic, socialist, etc) registered atheists near the bottom in terms of electability

466 Unakite  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:50:05pm

re: #389 prairiefire

Yes, plus there is the not allowing of any type of celebrations (birthday, holidays, etc.). I have heard either way about being able to say the pledge of allegiance. You can't get to Heaven unless you follow their extra special rules, added to the Bible, on and on.
I think it's very hard on the children to exclude themselves from all of the extra activities at school.

OK, my two cents. My wife works with a JW. He's a nice guy, works hard, and doesn't celebrate birthdays, holidays, etc. but he sure accepts his Christmas bonus, even though he won't show up to the Christmas party.

467 Digital Display  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:50:08pm

re: #458 cliffster

Go LeBron! You are superhuman.. come claim what is your due!

howdy HH ;)

What's kicking chicken?

468 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:50:35pm

re: #445 LudwigVanQuixote

Please Cato, be less of a buzz kill. I don't want to start my own blog, I don't have the time. What I want to do, is have AGW discussions shift more to discussing what we are doing to fix the problem.

If people here believe the science, then we should all act like it.

I accept (not "believe") the science. I'm skeptical that we can act on it short of massive coercion, and even then I'm skeptical that the massive coercion will do anything but add to the sum of human misery.

And the notion that "we (the Lizards on this board) should all" do anything has me howling with sad laughter.

469 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:50:45pm

re: #459 Dark_Falcon

We're still years away from that last. The smug* emitted by the Deniers will still take a long time to blow away enough for people to see through it.

* = South Park reference

470 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:50:51pm

re: #459 Dark_Falcon

We're still years away from that last. The smug* emitted by the Deniers will still take a long time to blow away enough for people to see through it.

The odds don't matter because failure is not an option.

471 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:51:00pm

re: #436 Gus 802

And if I said I want Catholics to be honest and self-aware what would the response be? Not that I would dare ask such a question since it's none of my business and I cannot know where my fellow human beings are coming from.

I would say. "Good for for you! I think *all* human beings should be honest and self-aware. It's a *good* thing."

472 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:51:20pm

re: #448 Slumbering Behemoth

Love it... "we're different skin"...

The BBC has long had excellent production values - they really know how to pick out things.

473 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:51:28pm

re: #465 engineer dog

in this country, the voices of conformity and puritanicalism are still so loud and insistant that atheists and actual real live socialists or communists hardly dare speak up

a poll recently asking "would you vote for a..." (woman, muslim, catholic, socialist, etc) registered atheists near the bottom in terms of electability

And guess what, there are a lot of us atheists who are respectful or believers and will only debate the topic is all involved are interested in the debate... otherwise, I rarely bring it up.

474 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:51:36pm

re: #455 LudwigVanQuixote

yes.

You know, that's the perfect answer.

475 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:51:48pm

re: #446 Nimed

But who do you mean by "we"? Would God allow our remote ancestors to make such a poor job that all subsequent generations who didn't understand Hebrew would be deprived of His Word?

(note: I'm an atheist, but I'm not being flippant here)

Are you talking about translation here, or transmission of the text, or what?

476 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:52:16pm

re: #459 Dark_Falcon

We're still years away from that last. The smug* emitted by the Deniers will still take a long time to blow away enough for people to see through it.

deniers and liberal greenies....they are holding up the show...if I were president I would immediately fire federal judges that promote energy dependence and simply install those who would dismiss cases for minnows or butterflies

477 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:52:25pm

re: #433 Cato the Elder

In America, there are no secular political leaders.

Just one in congress: Rep. Pete Stark (D-CA).

478 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:52:36pm

re: #452 Walter L. Newton

Truth.

All right, then.

479 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:52:48pm

Can I clutter this thread with a Fernando Pessoa's poem? It's this kind of day for me.

All love letters are
Ridiculous.
They wouldn't be love letters if they weren't
Ridiculous.

In my time I also wrote love letters
Equally, inevitably
Ridiculous.

Love letters, if there's love,
Must be
Ridiculous.

But in fact
Only those who've never written
Love letters
Are
Ridiculous.

If only I could go back
To when I wrote love letters
Without thinking how
Ridiculous.

The truth is that today
My memories
Of those love letters
Are what is
Ridiculous.

(All more-than-three-syllable words,
Along with unaccountable feelings,
Are naturally
Ridiculous.)

480 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:53:00pm

re: #468 Cato the Elder

I accept (not "believe") the science. I'm skeptical that we can act on it short of massive coercion, and even then I'm skeptical that the massive coercion will do anything but add to the sum of human misery.

And the notion that "we (the Lizards on this board) should all" do anything has me howling with sad laughter.

If you believe that science is accurate, then you must believe that you personally should be taking actions to help.

If you do not believe the science I will gladly educate you.

If you do not believe that once you know the science you are excused from action then I will start considering you immoral and be correct to do so.

481 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:53:09pm

re: #475 SanFranciscoZionist

Are you talking about translation here, or transmission of the text, or what?

If you asked me that question, I would be talking about the actual content, which is flawed, provably flawed.

482 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:53:16pm

re: #464 Walter L. Newton

I love it... we can talk about AGW deniers and believers in a g-d, all in the same thread and expect to be taken seriously.

hahaha!....don't include me in that eclectic group

483 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:53:18pm

re: #346 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think they know anything except where I live, for some reason.

I may have told this story before but: It's winter, a few years ago. It's before dawn, absolutely freezing, frost on the road, and I'm freezing my ass off, waiting for the bus to work. Everything is going wrong in my life. I'm cold, I'm depressed, I'm miserable...and I find myself asking God for a sign. In exactly those hackneyed terms.

As I'm praying, a passing car slows down. A little boy, about nine or ten, hops out of it, approaches me, and asks if I'd like to read something about the future world, or however they phrase it, and hands me a copy of The Watchtower. Back in the car, and they drive away.

I'm standing there, with this magazine in my hand, cracking up.

OK, OK, I got a sign, great...

LOL!

484 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:53:27pm

re: #474 austin_blue

You know, that's the perfect answer.

yes.

(I have some experience with pilpuls ;) :

485 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:53:35pm

re: #460 Gus 802

Oh, I don't know. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive. I've got that unfortunate personality trait which bubbles up from time to time.

I think most people do. Let me know if I tell any atheists to sit down and shut up, though.

486 Unakite  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:54:06pm

re: #422 albusteve

that notion leaves me speechless

I can't stomach that thought.

487 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:54:28pm

re: #467 HoosierHoops

What's kicking chicken?

It's kind of like teabagging, just a little more messy...

488 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:54:29pm

BBL... got to have my hour fix of TV for this week...

489 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:54:31pm

re: #470 LudwigVanQuixote

The odds don't matter because failure is not an option.

of course it is...we are on the brink by your own admission, and it's likely we will continue to "fail"

490 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:54:50pm

re: #445 LudwigVanQuixote

Please Cato, be less of a buzz kill. I don't want to start my own blog, I don't have the time. What I want to do, is have AGW discussions shift more to discussing what we are doing to fix the problem.

If people here believe the science, then we should all act like it.

I hate to be kind of a buzz kill, too, but even if the western world moved radically wholesale into nuclear power generation I doubt the developing world would follow suit rapidly enough to make a difference in the future climate trends. This is not to say we shouldn't move away from combustion energy. We should. Doing so will ease the forcing function that is driving the climate out of the interglacial period thus giving us a longer time to adapt to change, and provide a stable energy source for the long term. What I am saying is I believe we are past the point of no return and I think "how do we stop it" is the wrong question. We need to be planning "how will human civilization cope."

491 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:55:17pm

re: #467 HoosierHoops

What's kicking chicken?

Just your ordinary evening in Austin. Getting all the recycling together for tomorrow. American Idol has commandeered the TV so I am following the action on my iphone. Breaking down boxes, checking my phone every 30 seconds. How's you?

492 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:55:49pm

re: #461 NJDhockeyfan

Chilean police detain Pakistani in US Embassy

Hope he wasn't wasn't playing poker after using hand lotion that day...

[Link: www.angelfire.com...]

493 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:55:55pm

re: #480 LudwigVanQuixote

If you believe that science is accurate, then you must believe that you personally should be taking actions to help.

If you do not believe the science I will gladly educate you.

If you do not believe that once you know the science you are excused from action then I will start considering you immoral and be correct to do so.

Now you would dictate my actions to me as well as my beliefs?

That is immoral.

494 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:56:00pm

re: #464 Walter L. Newton

I love it... we can talk about AGW deniers and believers in a g-d, all in the same thread and expect to be taken seriously.

Are you disappointed that despite your and Steve's best attempts to start a flame war you have failed?

495 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:56:08pm

re: #475 SanFranciscoZionist

Are you talking about translation here, or transmission of the text, or what?

We can narrow the discussion to, say, the King James translation.

496 Gus  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:56:31pm

Think I'll go watch House.

497 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:56:42pm

re: #495 Nimed

We can narrow the discussion to, say, the King James translation.

Boston's up by 15.

498 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:57:03pm

re: #490 Liberal Classic

I hate to be kind of a buzz kill, too, but even if the western world moved radically wholesale into nuclear power generation I doubt the developing world would follow suit rapidly enough to make a difference in the future climate trends. This is not to say we shouldn't move away from combustion energy. We should. Doing so will ease the forcing function that is driving the climate out of the interglacial period thus giving us a longer time to adapt to change, and provide a stable energy source for the long term. What I am saying is I believe we are past the point of no return and I think "how do we stop it" is the wrong question. We need to be planning "how will human civilization cope."

As a hopeful thought it's quite possible that a big move away from fossil fuels, lets say a five thousand percent tax on any fossil fuel would have the effect of driving some serious innovation.

Hopefully that innovation would produce some serious solutions which could be used by the parts of our world which lag behind economically and/or industrially.

499 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:57:41pm

re: #486 Unakite

I can't stomach that thought.

I'm usually pretty low key and avoid drama when I can. After I had my kids, I was very surprised at the ferociousness of my protective instincts.

500 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:58:02pm

re: #404 Gus 802

Once again atheists are being told to be silent.

Speaking as, I don't feel particularly singled out. There are plenty of religious people who are being shouted down, too.

501 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:58:04pm

re: #490 Liberal Classic

I hate to be kind of a buzz kill, too, but even if the western world moved radically wholesale into nuclear power generation I doubt the developing world would follow suit rapidly enough to make a difference in the future climate trends. This is not to say we shouldn't move away from combustion energy. We should. Doing so will ease the forcing function that is driving the climate out of the interglacial period thus giving us a longer time to adapt to change, and provide a stable energy source for the long term. What I am saying is I believe we are past the point of no return and I think "how do we stop it" is the wrong question. We need to be planning "how will human civilization cope."

If we started on those sorts of projects now the tipping points get moved further back. That would give us time to go to them. The major problems, US, China, India, Europe and the practices of oil companies in the ME and Africa are the first priority.

If we go green as a nation and help others develop the technology, they go green and the oil problem begins to solve itself, because we buy most of it.

502 Unakite  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:58:08pm

re: #451 compound idaho

Right lateral fault or are you discussing demographics? ;)

It's late and I was mixing up a little of both. Geology an geography only differ by a couple of letters. :)

503 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:58:35pm

re: #490 Liberal Classic

I hate to be kind of a buzz kill, too, but even if the western world moved radically wholesale into nuclear power generation I doubt the developing world would follow suit rapidly enough to make a difference in the future climate trends. This is not to say we shouldn't move away from combustion energy. We should. Doing so will ease the forcing function that is driving the climate out of the interglacial period thus giving us a longer time to adapt to change, and provide a stable energy source for the long term. What I am saying is I believe we are past the point of no return and I think "how do we stop it" is the wrong question. We need to be planning "how will human civilization cope."

and I'd add, exporting new technology is a goldmine waiting to be tapped

504 Linden Arden  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:58:38pm

PBS' Frontline just finished a show on a true hero - the Tank Man of Tiannamen Square.

Good stuff if you care.

505 engineer cat  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:58:51pm

re: #473 Walter L. Newton

And guess what, there are a lot of us atheists who are respectful or believers and will only debate the topic is all involved are interested in the debate... otherwise, I rarely bring it up.

Walter, i seem to detect some traces of your having been in discussions where people weren't totally polite...

506 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:58:54pm

re: #490 Liberal Classic

The quality of life motivation still works. All the low/no carbon energy sources are more pleasant to be near than oil and coal.

507 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:59:31pm

re: #504 Linden Arden

I just hope our President and Sec State watch.

508 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 6:59:41pm

re: #463 Locker

I always wondered about the faith required to be an atheist. Personally that's my problem with religion... the whole faith thing and atheism demanded no less faith than any of the theistic heavy hitters.

I disagree, but I'm not gonna go there today. Depending on who you are referring to with the phrase "heavy hitters", I might agree - some of these guys are pretty insufferable.

509 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:00:17pm

re: #494 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you disappointed that despite your and Steve's best attempts to start a flame war you have failed?

don't be so self centered...I have no inclination to a flame war, you are hardly the center of my attention

510 Ojoe  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:00:33pm

Down, also, with the other morns who tanked the economy.

Pffiibbiiith.™

Tonight's early Towercam, with well defined canyons. San Gabriel Mountains of California, Pacific time zone.

511 allegro  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:00:35pm

re: #384 austin_blue

That is my problem with the Vocal Atheists like Dawkins. It takes a lot of Faith to believe that a Prime Mover, who may be the creator of a multi-verse of billions of universes (according to String Theory), but doesn't mess with them, doesn't exist.

This is wrong on a number of levels. It takes no faith whatsoever to echew a concept with no basis in fact or evidence. It requires no more faith for one who does not accept the concept of a supreme being than it does to not accept the concept of fairies or unicorns. There is no difference.

Atheism is as much a faith-based philosophy as any other religion.

Not even close.

I don't want Atheists to be silent, I want them to be honest and self-aware.

Clearly this is not the case. It appears that your definition of "honest and self-aware" is to accept your belief system.

512 Digital Display  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:00:42pm

re: #491 cliffster

Just your ordinary evening in Austin. Getting all the recycling together for tomorrow. American Idol has commandeered the TV so I am following the action on my iphone. Breaking down boxes, checking my phone every 30 seconds. How's you?

I'm watching the game on TV...Go Celtics!
/Hi cliff! hope you are well

513 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:00:44pm

re: #493 Cato the Elder

Now you would dictate my actions to me as well as my beliefs?

That is immoral.

Cato that is a ridiculous sophistry that is well beneath you.

Are you trying to tell me that there is no such thing as a social contract. Are you arguing that mere anarchy be loosed on the world. The second you live in a society, you have certain actions dictated to you and others restricted.

Now I get that you are bored and are interested in picking a fight for sport, but that was really pathetic and frankly shameful to your normal high caliber thinking.

514 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:00:58pm

re: #476 albusteve

deniers and liberal greenies...they are holding up the show...if I were president I would immediately fire federal judges that promote energy dependence and simply install those who would dismiss cases for minnows or butterflies

The problem is that those judges can't be fired, only impeached and they cannot be impeached unless they break the law.

515 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:01:08pm

re: #498 Locker

As a hopeful thought it's quite possible that a big move away from fossil fuels, lets say a five thousand percent tax on any fossil fuel would have the effect of driving some serious innovation.

Hopefully that innovation would produce some serious solutions which could be used by the parts of our world which lag behind economically and/or industrially.

A 5,000% tax?

So a product that now costs $1 would cost $50?

Dream on.

516 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:02:00pm

re: #487 LudwigVanQuixote

It's kind of like teabagging, just a little more messy...

So it features a Happy Ending?

517 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:02:09pm

re: #509 albusteve

don't be so self centered...I have no inclination to a flame war, you are hardly the center of my attention

And yet you have made five attempts. I suppose that counts as six. I'll bite just a little, does being irrelevant sting?

518 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:02:34pm

re: #490 Liberal Classic

I hate to be kind of a buzz kill, too, but even if the western world moved radically wholesale into nuclear power generation I doubt the developing world would follow suit rapidly enough to make a difference in the future climate trends. This is not to say we shouldn't move away from combustion energy. We should. Doing so will ease the forcing function that is driving the climate out of the interglacial period thus giving us a longer time to adapt to change, and provide a stable energy source for the long term. What I am saying is I believe we are past the point of no return and I think "how do we stop it" is the wrong question. We need to be planning "how will human civilization cope."

Here's a start:

[Link: www.betterplace.com...]

519 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:03:06pm

re: #514 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that those judges can't be fired, only impeached and they cannot be impeached unless they break the law.

huh?...Clinton fired 92 federal judges

520 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:03:10pm

re: #495 Nimed

We can narrow the discussion to, say, the King James translation.

It's not the worst there is, given what they had to work with, and it is stunningly beautiful.

I don't know. Is there a special providence that watches over translators? Is there a sanctity that creeps into a good translation? I would like to think so, but I don't know about that. I do feel privileged to be part of a generation that has the advantage of textual comparison, scientific text study, and all the other bells and whistles that have developed since the nineteenth century or so. It

521 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:04:05pm

re: #517 LudwigVanQuixote

And yet you have made five attempts. I suppose that counts as six. I'll bite just a little, does being irrelevant sting?

I simply post...your regard for yourself clouds your judgment

522 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:04:17pm

OT: The Taliban adopt a Nazi tactic:

Gassing Girls For Defying God

May 10, 2010: Recently, 17 students at a Kabul, Afghanistan, girls high school fell ill and had to be hospitalized, along with several teachers. Doctors at the hospital agreed that it was some kind of poison, but have not been able to identify it yet. All the victims smelled something odd when they got to school, then fell ill, with some of the students losing consciousness. This is the second such incident at this school, and there was a similar attack at a girls high school further north. The Taliban have been known to attack girls schools, including injuring or killing students with gunfire, explosives and, in at least one case, acid thrown into the faces of students. Now it appears that poison gas has been added to the Taliban arsenal.

The Taliban do not believe in education for girls (which they believe is forbidden by Islam), but do believe in chemical weapons (which they do not believe is forbidden by Islam). When the Taliban ran Afghanistan in the late 1990s, they hosted al Qaeda, and al Qaeda set up a chemical warfare research facility. If the Taliban are using some kind of poisonous chemical for these attacks, they could have gotten them from their better educated friends in al Qaeda. American military personnel collected air and soil samples from the schools, but have not announced any results yet.

523 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:04:27pm

re: #493 Cato the Elder

Now you would dictate my actions to me as well as my beliefs?

That is immoral.

Après moi le Deluge. That's in effect what you're saying if accept the consequences of climate change without supporting any action.

524 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:05:03pm

re: #503 albusteve

and I'd add, exporting new technology is a goldmine waiting to be tapped

Ding ding ding! You want to rebuild America's manufacturing sector and repopulate the blue-collar middle class? The way forward is clear.

525 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:05:17pm

re: #508 Nimed

I disagree, but I'm not gonna go there today. Depending on who you are referring to with the phrase "heavy hitters", I might agree - some of these guys are pretty insufferable.

What I'm saying is that it takes faith to believe any religious dogma. There isn't any sort of "preview tour" of heaven or valhalla or whatever you just have to like have faith and believe and hope or whatever.

Same thing for atheism as I understand it. There isn't an sort of preview tour or whatever that proves there is "nothing" after death you just have to have faith and believe or whatever.

That's why it's so much fun to be an agnostic. You get to say "I don't know shit" and never be trapped in a corner or have to rely on faith.

526 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:05:26pm

re: #518 austin_blue

Here's a start:

[Link: www.betterplace.com...]

Great link!

I am really happy with people who spread awareness of these things. The technology for solutions is available and would be profitable in its own right if deployed.

This is exactly the kind of information that needs to be shared.

527 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:05:28pm

Oh yeah? Well I completely believed in creationism before you did!
No you didn't!
Yes I did!
No you didn't!
Yes I did!

/farkin morons is right, childish ones as well... :p

528 Linden Arden  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:05:31pm

re: #519 albusteve

huh?...Clinton fired 92 federal judges

Don't you mean US attorneys?

529 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:06:40pm

re: #515 Cato the Elder

A 5,000% tax?

So a product that now costs $1 would cost $50?

Dream on.

Something like that might be sold, if it were almost the only tax.

530 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:07:18pm

re: #515 Cato the Elder

A 5,000% tax?

So a product that now costs $1 would cost $50?

Dream on.

It was an extreme example to illustrate a point buckethead. Go fight with your fan club I've got grandaddy x haze that needs my attention and they'll miss you.

531 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:07:35pm

re: #501 LudwigVanQuixote

If we started on those sorts of projects now the tipping points get moved further back. That would give us time to go to them. The major problems, US, China, India, Europe and the practices of oil companies in the ME and Africa are the first priority.

If we go green as a nation and help others develop the technology, they go green and the oil problem begins to solve itself, because we buy most of it.

I respectfully disagree that the problem will solve itself. Even if our demand for fossil fuels were to decrease due to aggressive investment in nuclear power (and to lesser degrees geo, solar, and wind), the demand in the developing world will continue to increase. A reduction of demand on the part of the western world would ease oil prices, thus allowing the developing world to continue to use fossil fuels longer. The developing world, particularly China and India, are not going to stop developing. They will use fossil fuels so long as it is economical to do so.

For me, the question of climate change is not "if" but "when".

532 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:08:17pm

re: #528 Linden Arden

Don't you mean US attorneys?

I don't know what I'm talking about here...I thought they were appointed judges

533 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:09:23pm

re: #519 albusteve

huh?...Clinton fired 92 federal judges

Do you have any proof from the reality based universe to backup that claim?

534 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:09:50pm

My back is killing me. I have beer in the fridge. Can someone go get one for me?

Pretty please?

535 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:09:52pm

re: #524 austin_blue

Ding ding ding! You want to rebuild America's manufacturing sector and repopulate the blue-collar middle class? The way forward is clear.

We're Number 2!
We're Number 2!
kinda sucky to bow before the Fwench

536 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:09:53pm

Russia don't play when it comes to Somali pirates hijacking their ships.

Russia says freed pirates didn't reach land

MOSCOW — A Russian official claimed Tuesday that 10 pirates seized by Russian special forces aboard an oil tanker last week were quickly freed but then died on their way back to the Somali coast.

The unidentified high-ranking Defense Ministry official did not elaborate on how the pirates died, deepening a mystery that has prompted speculation the pirates were executed by commandos who had freed a Russian oil tanker seized in waters 500 miles (800 kilometers) east of Somalia's coast.

The official told Russian news agencies the pirates' boat disappeared from Russian radar about an hour after their release.

"They could not reach the coast and, apparently, have all died," the official said.

The Defense Ministry could not be reached despite repeated phone calls Tuesday to the press office and the cell phones of spokesmen.

Heh.

537 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:10:12pm

re: #503 albusteve

and I'd add, exporting new technology is a goldmine waiting to be tapped

I agree with you on this point, because our manufacturing base and export market is centered around high-tech industry.

538 allegro  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:10:28pm

re: #531 Liberal Classic

The developing world, particularly China and India, are not going to stop developing.

I believe I read recently that China is leading on wind energy technology. They are not incapable of seeing where the world is going and jumping on it.

539 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:10:32pm

re: #520 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, there is a special providence. I think it is called the Holy Spirit. I also thank God for the gift of faith since I was young. I'm a big 2nd chapter of Acts gal.

540 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:10:34pm

re: #519 albusteve

huh?...Clinton fired 92 federal judges

No, he fired US Attorneys. Federal Judges cannot be fired. They can only leave office via death, resignation, or impeachment.

541 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:10:39pm

re: #532 albusteve

No, they were US Attorneys.

542 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:11:02pm

re: #531 Liberal Classic

I respectfully disagree that the problem will solve itself. Even if our demand for fossil fuels were to decrease due to aggressive investment in nuclear power (and to lesser degrees geo, solar, and wind), the demand in the developing world will continue to increase. A reduction of demand on the part of the western world would ease oil prices, thus allowing the developing world to continue to use fossil fuels longer. The developing world, particularly China and India, are not going to stop developing. They will use fossil fuels so long as it is economical to do so.

For me, the question of climate change is not "if" but "when".

Again, you are pointing out that such actions might not happen soon enough to work. If that happens it will be because of lack of political will on the part of the world's peoples.

However, there is no scientific or engineering reason we could not avert catastrophe.

I do guarantee that an attitude of "we are fucked anyway, so why bother?" will assure the catastrophe. Some chance is better than no chance, and failure is not an option.

So let me ask why you are saying this stuff?

Is it because you think it is nice when other people do things about this, but that you are excused, and you use this sort of thinking as a rationalization for inaction?

543 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:11:14pm

re: #536 NJDhockeyfan

At least the Russians have some things right.

544 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:11:20pm

re: #533 Reginald Perrin

Do you have any proof from the reality based universe to backup that claim?

no...my bad

545 compound idaho  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:11:34pm

re: #534 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My back is killing me. I have beer in the fridge. Can someone go get one for me?

Pretty please?

I cannot get one for you. I will do the next best thing and get one for me. Sorry :(

546 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:11:37pm

'Nite all.

547 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:11:44pm

re: #513 LudwigVanQuixote

Cato that is a ridiculous sophistry that is well beneath you.

Are you trying to tell me that there is no such thing as a social contract. Are you arguing that mere anarchy be loosed on the world. The second you live in a society, you have certain actions dictated to you and others restricted.

Now I get that you are bored and are interested in picking a fight for sport, but that was really pathetic and frankly shameful to your normal high caliber thinking.

I am trying to tell you that the social contract has never included people who won't be born for another three generations. It may not be just, it may not be rational, but it's pure, immutable human nature.

I'm arguing that whether or not mere anarchy is loosed upon the world is not up to you, or me, or any conclave of anointed prophets, or any group of climate scientists, no matter how we fume and sputter.

I am not bored at all and I'm not picking a fight. I'm merely calling it like I see it.

Hell, there was every opportunity to stop WWII in its tracks. A bold French government could have put an end to Hitler in the Rhineland.

Everybody with eyes to see saw it coming, and it came anyway.

What hope do you really have that the avalanche of hot meat that is humanity can be stopped or turned in its course by words?

548 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:12:11pm

re: #538 allegro

There's a lot more to it than that. Ask Lawhawk about it.

Guy's got mad "Facts" skills.

549 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:12:23pm

re: #534 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My back is killing me. I have beer in the fridge. Can someone go get one for me?

Pretty please?

I bet you have a recliner chair. Am I right?

550 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:12:32pm

re: #538 allegro

I believe I read recently that China is leading on wind energy technology. They are not incapable of seeing where the world is going and jumping on it.

The literally don't have the coal supplies to have their entire population consume electricity at the rate that the top 20% (who are living in "developed" conditions) are doing.

551 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:12:32pm

re: #544 albusteve

I know what you meant.

552 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:12:36pm

Wow, King James and his boys are getting an ass-whoopin'. It's ok, Lebron, you're still just a kid. When I was your age, I hadn't even hit puberty yet.

553 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:12:46pm

re: #536 NJDhockeyfan

Russia don't play when it comes to Somali pirates hijacking their ships.

Russia says freed pirates didn't reach land

Heh.

Ok now that is some seriously hilarious pwnage.

We let them go right away but they accidentally swam through an area we were using for target practice. We had no idea!

554 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:13:19pm

re: #520 SanFranciscoZionist

It's not the worst there is, given what they had to work with, and it is stunningly beautiful.

I don't know. Is there a special providence that watches over translators? Is there a sanctity that creeps into a good translation? I would like to think so, but I don't know about that. I do feel privileged to be part of a generation that has the advantage of textual comparison, scientific text study, and all the other bells and whistles that have developed since the nineteenth century or so.

Fair enough.

555 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:13:29pm

re: #549 prairiefire

No. Sad am I.

Beer's only ten steps away... but getting up hurts like a mo fo.

556 Linden Arden  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:13:41pm

re: #547 Cato the Elder

I am trying to tell you that the social contract has never included people who won't be born for another three generations. It may not be just, it may not be rational, but it's pure, immutable human nature.

What about the US Constitution?

557 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:14:04pm

re: #536 NJDhockeyfan

Russia don't play when it comes to Somali pirates hijacking their ships.

Russia says freed pirates didn't reach land

Heh.

Cause of Death: 7.62mm Hemorrhage. Different century, same Russia. That said, I approve of their actions. Making the pirates see raiding our ships as being equivalent to death is the only way these raids stop.

558 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:14:08pm

re: #551 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know what you meant.

it appears I didn't

559 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:14:29pm

re: #511 allegro

Clearly this is not the case. It appears that your definition of "honest and self-aware" is to accept your belief system.

No, I happily accept all belief systems unless they trend to the radical and include forcing it upon others.

Full stop.

560 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:14:37pm

re: #536 NJDhockeyfan

Russia don't play when it comes to Somali pirates hijacking their ships.

Russia says freed pirates didn't reach land

Heh.

We put them in a boat and set them free. Not our fault the boat had all those holes in it.

561 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:15:12pm

re: #547 Cato the Elder

I am trying to tell you that the social contract has never included people who won't be born for another three generations. It may not be just, it may not be rational, but it's pure, immutable human nature.

I'm arguing that whether or not mere anarchy is loosed upon the world is not up to you, or me, or any conclave of anointed prophets, or any group of climate scientists, no matter how we fume and sputter.

I am not bored at all and I'm not picking a fight. I'm merely calling it like I see it.

Hell, there was every opportunity to stop WWII in its tracks. A bold French government could have put an end to Hitler in the Rhineland.

Everybody with eyes to see saw it coming, and it came anyway.

What hope do you really have that the avalanche of hot meat that is humanity can be stopped or turned in its course by words?

two words...
Micheal Valentine Smith
he's coming and all will be well again

562 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:15:20pm

re: #557 Dark_Falcon

You don't really need a trial when someone boards your fucking ship fifty miles out to sea. Motives are pretty clear there.

563 Unakite  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:15:22pm

re: #534 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My back is killing me. I have beer in the fridge. Can someone go get one for me?

Pretty please?

Got one. But you have to come get it.

564 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:16:06pm

re: #563 Unakite

People do not appear to be getting my request right...

565 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:16:15pm

re: #558 albusteve

it appears I didn't

Well, you were man enough to admit it honestly and without butthurt. You're a good egg, Steve, and we're lucky to have you.

566 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:16:24pm

re: #536 NJDhockeyfan

Russia don't play when it comes to Somali pirates hijacking their ships.

Russia says freed pirates didn't reach land

Heh.

Oh, shit! Did I press that button? I'll send them a bouquet of whoopsie daises.

567 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:16:46pm

re: #560 Racer X

We put them in a boat and set them free. Not our fault the boat had all those holes in it.

Anyone see my ticking time bomb? I left it in one of the row boats.

568 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:16:51pm

re: #556 Linden Arden

What about the US Constitution?

What about it?

569 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:16:55pm

re: #557 Dark_Falcon

Cause of Death: 7.62mm Hemorrhage. Different century, same Russia. That said, I approve of their actions. Making the pirates see raiding our ships as being equivalent to death is the only way these raids stop.

Damn straight. NJDHF's post is a rare one indeed where I continue to click the plus button in the hope of additional updings.

570 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:17:04pm

re: #528 Linden Arden

Don't you mean US attorneys?

He does, just like every Admin before Clinton's. Just another Faux talking point that somehow has survived.

571 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:17:30pm

re: #542 LudwigVanQuixote

Again, you are pointing out that such actions might not happen soon enough to work. If that happens it will be because of lack of political will on the part of the world's peoples.

However, there is no scientific or engineering reason we could not avert catastrophe.

I do guarantee that an attitude of "we are fucked anyway, so why bother?" will assure the catastrophe. Some chance is better than no chance, and failure is not an option.

So let me ask why you are saying this stuff?

Is it because you think it is nice when other people do things about this, but that you are excused, and you use this sort of thinking as a rationalization for inaction?

Please don't be so hostile. I'm simply saying the catastrophe has already happened. We need to learn to cope with changing growing seasons and rising seas. In my mind the question is not "if" it is "when". Moving away from fossil fuels towards nuclear power helps ease the coming change, such that we will have a longer time to adapt. But "how do we stop it" is the wrong question. We need to be asking ourselves "how will human civilization cope with climate change."

572 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:17:41pm

re: #565 Dark_Falcon

Well, you were man enough to admit it honestly and without butthurt. You're a good egg, Steve, and we're lucky to have you.

they all look the same to me?

573 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:17:58pm

re: #570 austin_blue

What do you mean Faux?

Every president does it, right?

574 compound idaho  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:18:10pm

re: #564 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

People do not appear to be getting my request right...

I'm drinking as fast as I can. Are you feeling better yet?

575 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:18:39pm

re: #552 cliffster

Wow, King James and his boys are getting an ass-whoopin'. It's ok, Lebron, you're still just a kid. When I was your age, I hadn't even hit puberty yet.

TMI...

576 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:18:59pm

re: #547 Cato the Elder

I am trying to tell you that the social contract has never included people who won't be born for another three generations. It may not be just, it may not be rational, but it's pure, immutable human nature.

Really? I think most people are very interested in the welfare of their children, and the effects of AGW are happening NOW already in ways that will continue to get worse over our lifetimes. The unbearable - and I mean truly unbearable, stuff for everyone as a whole, starts in about 100 years.
But don't think it will not be getting progressively worse between no and then.


I'm arguing that whether or not mere anarchy is loosed upon the world is not up to you, or me, or any conclave of anointed prophets, or any group of climate scientists, no matter how we fume and sputter.

But it is up to us. We have the power to stop it. So what exactly are you doing to fix it Cato other than justifying your lack of action to yourself?

I am not bored at all and I'm not picking a fight. I'm merely calling it like I see it.

I half give that to you. I think you are simply your own rationalizing inaction.

Hell, there was every opportunity to stop WWII in its tracks. A bold French government could have put an end to Hitler in the Rhineland.

So we could perhaps learn from such things... We learned not to impose another Versailles, and came up with the Marshall plan as well.

Everybody with eyes to see saw it coming, and it came anyway.

And yet, there is still time to avoid it.

What hope do you really have that the avalanche of hot meat that is humanity can be stopped or turned in its course by words?

Words are the first step to actions. Words convinced people this is real - well that and data and facts. There is still a large amount to do on that front. You can't get people to help fix a problem they do not believe exists.

577 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:19:07pm

re: #562 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You don't really need a trial when someone boards your fucking ship fifty miles out to sea. Motives are pretty clear there.

Quite Concur. But Ludwig is right when he says we need to try such scum fairly before we waste them. I hate pirates and I favor executing them, but we are a different nation than Russia and we need to live up to our rules. We need to create a tribunal to attend to the pirates we capture.

578 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:19:46pm

re: #570 austin_blue

He does, just like every Admin before Clinton's. Just another Faux talking point that somehow has survived.

my point is that the courts are disrupting all progress with regard to our nuclear capability...if that's a talking point then it's a valid one

579 Linden Arden  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:19:52pm

re: #568 Cato the Elder

What about it?

The Constitution is a social contract that applies to many generations forward.

I caught the tail end of this discussion so I may be off the reservation here.

580 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:20:05pm

re: #577 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. But Ludwig is right when he says we need to try such scum fairly before we waste them. I hate pirates and I favor executing them, but we are a different nation than Russia and we need to live up to our rules. We need to create a tribunal to attend to the pirates we capture.

Sigh... You're right...
Still gonna get a Man of War and go huntin!

581 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:20:21pm

re: #556 Linden Arden

What about the US Constitution?

Brilliant point, and don't worry, Cato saw the point too. He is too bright not to have. Don't let him sucker you.

582 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:20:30pm

re: #577 Dark_Falcon

Sorry. No quarter.

Summarily execute them.

I think the other idea is really nice and all...

583 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:20:32pm

re: #574 compound idaho

I'm drinking as fast as I can. Are you feeling better yet?

heh...good one
I'll chip in....BARTENDER!

584 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:20:33pm

re: #574 compound idaho

I'm drinking as fast as I can. Are you feeling better yet?

No, have a couple more!
LOL!

585 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:20:41pm

re: #571 Liberal Classic

Yes, thank you. Please get right to it. I think the numbers of our younger generations of work force will open these new fields.
Cato, you are correct about the three generations removed theory. At least 65% feel that way.

586 engineer cat  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:20:58pm

re: #570 austin_blue

He does, just like every Admin before Clinton's. Just another Faux talking point that somehow has survived.

they never die. they exist somewhere outside of time and space and reality and reason, in a pristine eternal alternative universe where teenagers will still never think of sex unless they hear rock and roll or attend biology classes, and earl warren should still be impeached

587 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:21:00pm

re: #573 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What do you mean Faux?

Every president does it, right?

Faux = Fox. While new Presidents routinely replace US Attorneys, very few purge their own Republicans from the ranks as 43's Admin did. Faux tried to pass it off as routine. It wasn't, by any means.

588 Unakite  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:21:26pm

re: #577 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. But Ludwig is right when he says we need to try such scum fairly before we waste them. I hate pirates and I favor executing them, but we are a different nation than Russia and we need to live up to our rules. We need to create a tribunal to attend to the pirates we capture.

But I bet they don't f*ck with a Russian ship anymore.

589 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:21:52pm

There just has to be some sort of thriving market in the east african freighter guarding business. I'll tell you right now, a single squad of regular army veterans with a light compliment of weapons could fight off just about any pirate force. A single Tow 2 with ammo and it's all over folks.

590 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:22:01pm

re: #587 austin_blue

Don't they serve at the pleasure of the President? Period?

591 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:22:14pm

re: #557 Dark_Falcon

Cause of Death: 7.62mm Hemorrhage. Different century, same Russia. That said, I approve of their actions. Making the pirates see raiding our ships as being equivalent to death is the only way these raids stop.

Seldom I like what Russians do, but sometimes stuff coincides.

592 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:22:54pm

re: #525 Locker

What I'm saying is that it takes faith to believe any religious dogma. There isn't any sort of "preview tour" of heaven or valhalla or whatever you just have to like have faith and believe and hope or whatever.

Same thing for atheism as I understand it. There isn't an sort of preview tour or whatever that proves there is "nothing" after death you just have to have faith and believe or whatever.

This is true only if you accept that the same burden of evidence is required for absence of existence as for existence. Most people do not accept this principle for almost any other entity besides God. But, of course, believers claim that God should not be in the same ontological category as other objects, and so on.

Another day, Locker.

593 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:23:04pm

We'll see you guys in the morning.

G'night knuckleheads.

594 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:23:16pm

re: #579 Linden Arden

The Constitution is a social contract that applies to many generations forward.

I caught the tail end of this discussion so I may be off the reservation here.

In hindsight, it has applied to many generations since it was written.

I would not bet a clipped copper on its continuing to do so for even one more generation. It might, but then the teabaggers might also gain power and destroy what they claim to want to preserve.

595 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:23:28pm

re: #576 LudwigVanQuixote

Words are the first step to actions. Words convinced people this is real - well that and data and facts. There is still a large amount to do on that front. You can't get people to help fix a problem they do not believe exists.

you go around the problem....I've said a dozen times to disregard the disbelievers and make it a security issue, and hence a profitable economic scheme....fuck the greenies, deniers and oil magnates

596 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:23:34pm

re: #577 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. But Ludwig is right when he says we need to try such scum fairly before we waste them. I hate pirates and I favor executing them, but we are a different nation than Russia and we need to live up to our rules. We need to create a tribunal to attend to the pirates we capture.

Be careful, if we capture them then yes they need a trial. If we shoot them in the commission of piracy, that is fully kosher.

597 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:23:45pm

re: #577 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. But Ludwig is right when he says we need to try such scum fairly before we waste them. I hate pirates and I favor executing them, but we are a different nation than Russia and we need to live up to our rules. We need to create a tribunal to attend to the pirates we capture.

I think that if we were in the pirates shoes, with the options that the pirates have, and the potential CASH that the hijackings promise, we'd all be in a little boat, with the biggest gun we could afford. And attack anything we could get to. The Somali's do not have a lot of options. Google "Failed State" and it's the definition of Somalia.

598 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:24:38pm

re: #592 Nimed

This is true only if you accept that the same burden of evidence is required for absence of existence as for existence. Most people do not accept this principle for almost any other entity besides God. But, of course, believers claim that God should not be in the same ontological category as other objects, and so on.

Another day, Locker.

You are like my old girlfriend who would never hang up the phone. You keep saying another day and then you respond. Information tease!

599 Linden Arden  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:24:38pm

re: #590 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Don't they serve at the pleasure of the President? Period?

Yes. In particular when the President wants to prosecute innocents for political purpose.

Like firing Carol Lam because she was about to bust Jerry Lewis (R) in a tight House race.

600 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:24:49pm

re: #589 Locker

There just has to be some sort of thriving market in the east african freighter guarding business. I'll tell you right now, a single squad of regular army veterans with a light compliment of weapons could fight off just about any pirate force. A single Tow 2 with ammo and it's all over folks.

It's against many Maritime regulations, IIRC. Places like the Suez Canal do not allow arms.

601 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:24:53pm

re: #530 Locker

It was an extreme example to illustrate a point buckethead. Go fight with your fan club I've got grandaddy x haze that needs my attention and they'll miss you.

I'd ask you to explain that sentence, but I really don't care what you meant.

602 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:25:12pm

re: #595 albusteve

you go around the problem...I've said a dozen times to disregard the disbelievers and make it a security issue, and hence a profitable economic scheme...fuck the greenies, deniers and oil magnates

Uhh steve, I was the first one on this thread to argue about the economic and security benefits of going green as national policy. You were one of the first to jump all over it with made up "economics."

Massive troll fail.

603 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:25:16pm

re: #596 LudwigVanQuixote

Be careful, if we capture them then yes they need a trial. If we shoot them in the commission of piracy, that is fully kosher.

What if they surrender, as is reported to have been the case?

604 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:25:26pm

re: #589 Locker

There just has to be some sort of thriving market in the east african freighter guarding business. I'll tell you right now, a single squad of regular army veterans with a light compliment of weapons could fight off just about any pirate force. A single Tow 2 with ammo and it's all over folks.

heh....there is a beauty in this simplicity, no?

605 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:25:39pm

re: #594 Cato the Elder

In hindsight, it has applied to many generations since it was written.

I would not bet a clipped copper on its continuing to do so for even one more generation. It might, but then the teabaggers might also gain power and destroy what they claim to want to preserve.

But you don't approve of the teabaggers' actions!

606 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:26:12pm

re: #591 Naso Tang

Seldom I like what Russians do, but sometimes stuff coincides.

fuck it...cross the beams

607 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:26:20pm

What's this about Mormons fighting it out for governor of Alabama?

608 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:26:28pm

re: #603 Bagua

What if they surrender, as is reported to have been the case?

Clearly we should take prisoners and try them.

609 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:26:58pm

re: #605 Nimed

But you don't approve of the teabaggers' actions!

Huh? What does that have to do with my point about the unknowable future?

610 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:27:57pm

re: #600 Floral Giraffe

It's against many Maritime regulations, IIRC. Places like the Suez Canal do not allow arms.

What weapons? These aren't the droids you are looking for...

Sorry to tease but I can guarantee that XE doesn't give a damn about maritime regulations. If someone isn't making a profit off this, they will be soon.

It's beautiful to be honest. Like running a protection racket where someone else is the muscle and takes all the blame.

611 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:28:00pm

re: #609 Cato the Elder

Huh? What does that have to do with my point about the unknowable future?

Known unknowns or unknown unknowns?

612 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:28:12pm

re: #608 LudwigVanQuixote

Clearly we should take prisoners and try them.

Then enough of this, wink, wink, we kill them in the act of piracy nonsense. You can't have it both ways.

613 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:28:14pm

re: #577 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. But Ludwig is right when he says we need to try such scum fairly before we waste them. I hate pirates and I favor executing them, but we are a different nation than Russia and we need to live up to our rules. We need to create a tribunal to attend to the pirates we capture.

How long have "we" had to do that? The point here is not try or waste, the point is when you have armed pirates coming at you shooting, you waste them, and you waste their lairs. It is a war, period.

It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to have the navies of the word to simply place 4 or 5 men with a couple of chain guns on ships going through the area and shoot on sight of arms visible, than to have them on a few navy ships here and there, hundreds of miles from most attacks.

614 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:28:31pm

re: #609 Cato the Elder

Huh? What does that have to do with my point about the unknowable future?

Cato, I will let you play sophistry with the others after you tell me why you feel the need to attempt to rationalize your own inaction.

615 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:28:41pm

re: #601 Cato the Elder

I'd ask you to explain that sentence, but I really don't care what you meant.

We hold a generally similar perspective... as shown by the above statement.

616 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:29:01pm

re: #603 Bagua

What if they surrender, as is reported to have been the case?

Then it is at least homicide. But what was the status of the pirates being "released prisoners". They could they be covered by universal maritime law for being "sailors in distress"?

617 avanti  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:29:05pm

re: #590 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Don't they serve at the pleasure of the President? Period?

Yes, when Clinton came in, he only kept maybe one of Bush's attorney appointees.


link.

618 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:29:20pm

re: #612 Bagua

Then enough of this, wink, wink, we kill them in the act of piracy nonsense. You can't have it both ways.

Can't we kill them and then give them a fair trial?

619 Linden Arden  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:29:29pm

re: #594 Cato the Elder

In hindsight, it has applied to many generations since it was written.

I would not bet a clipped copper on its continuing to do so for even one more generation. It might, but then the teabaggers might also gain power and destroy what they claim to want to preserve.

Absolutely agreed.

There is nothing in the Bill of Rights that cannot be overturned by voter fiat.

(Even Glenn Beck's immutable "god-given rights".

620 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:30:22pm

re: #576 LudwigVanQuixote

But it is up to us. We have the power to stop it. So what exactly are you doing to fix it Cato other than justifying your lack of action to yourself?

First, I don't believe we do have the power to stop it. Two, what "action" would you have me take? Hop up and down on one leg and scream at people?

621 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:30:30pm

re: #602 LudwigVanQuixote

Uhh steve, I was the first one on this thread to argue about the economic and security benefits of going green as national policy. You were one of the first to jump all over it with made up "economics."

Massive troll fail.

prove it if it's that important to you....I've posted that line since before you were registered...same with my refusal to quibble over science...get to the solutions and forge ahead....your claim to credit is laughable

622 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:30:54pm

re: #612 Bagua

Then enough of this, wink, wink, we kill them in the act of piracy nonsense. You can't have it both ways.

Did I write something hthat was so hard to understand, or do I need to lay out the scene in spoonfed bits. It is no different than the apprehension of any other criminal. If they are resisting arrest, threatening hostages or it is to the advantage of the Navy for tactical reasons, it is a kosher shoot. That does not mean that if they do not resist capture and surrender, we should take no prisoners.

I can't even begin to fathom how you thought your comment was pointing to a contradiction.

623 sattv4u2  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:30:55pm

re: #620 Cato the Elder

First, I don't believe we do have the power to stop it. Two, what "action" would you have me take? Hop up and down on one leg and scream at people?

You do that here on a daily basis, no !?!?!

//

624 Summer Seale  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:31:00pm

Texas Freedom Network talks about Pam Geller:

[Link: tfninsider.org...]

625 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:32:01pm

re: #624 Summer

Think Ann Coulter, but with even less restraint or shame. Seriously.

Probably an understatement.

626 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:32:42pm

re: #608 LudwigVanQuixote

Clearly we should take prisoners and try them.

yeah, read them their Mirandas and give them American rights to CNN exposure, then a 5 year trial before we cut them loose....good thinking

627 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:33:07pm

re: #616 prairiefire

Then it is at least homicide. But what was the status of the pirates being "released prisoners". They could they be covered by universal maritime law for being "sailors in distress"?

Correct. As to "releasing prisoners" to a certain death, that is savage and unacceptable.

628 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:33:44pm

re: #609 Cato the Elder

Huh? What does that have to do with my point about the unknowable future?

You claim that some principle of the Constitution might not survive for the 3 generations. But you agree this doesn't imply that we shouldn't try to preserve them. Yet, in regard to climate change, you were arguing that, because efforts to avoid global warming may fail, it's immoral to try to implement the necessary actions to avoid it.

629 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:33:54pm

re: #618 Spare O'Lake

Can't we kill them and then give them a fair trial?

"give em a trial, then hang em...."
Roy Bean

630 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:34:00pm

re: #616 prairiefire

A Pirate becoming a sailor in distress would be like a kid that kills his parents and then begs mercy as an orphan. Laughable. I truly hope the Russians did not kill those men. The mystery may serve as a deterrent. Maybe it's off to a secret Gulag. Who knows.

631 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:34:11pm

re: #626 albusteve

yeah, read them their Mirandas and give them American rights to CNN exposure, then a 5 year trial before we cut them loose...good thinking

You forgot the eventual "green card" ad/or asylum.//

632 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:34:12pm

re: #590 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Don't they serve at the pleasure of the President? Period?

They do. But canning them for not prosecuting Dems without just cause is a little over the top, eh?

633 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:34:37pm

re: #628 Nimed

You claim that some principle of the Constitution might not survive for the 3 generations. But you agree this doesn't imply that we shouldn't try to preserve them. Yet, in regard to climate change, you were arguing that, because efforts to avoid global warming may fail, it's immoral to try to implement the necessary actions to avoid it.

You have not understood a word I've said.

634 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:34:39pm

re: #601 Cato the Elder

I'd ask you to explain that sentence, but I really don't care what you meant.

If I were you I'd offer him a plugged nickel and a thin dime for his thoughts.

635 engineer cat  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:34:43pm

re: #619 Linden Arden

Absolutely agreed.

There is nothing in the Bill of Rights that cannot be overturned by voter fiat.

(Even Glenn Beck's immutable "god-given rights".

not only that, there is nothing in the bill of rights that can't be overturned by ignorant or malicious reinterpretation

it seems now that all citizens have equal rights, but some citizens have rights that are more equal than others

636 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:34:47pm

re: #612 Bagua

Then enough of this, wink, wink, we kill them in the act of piracy nonsense. You can't have it both ways.

Well I think it's a line between military vs private security. But in either case, if you are being fired at or even threatened with weapons you can respond with deadly fire. Period.

Now, if the military comes up to some hijacked boat and the pirates surrender then we should take them prisoner. We don't kill prisoners.

Private security doesn't have that quandary as they are on the scene pre-hijack attempt and are purely defensive.

637 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:34:55pm

re: #596 LudwigVanQuixote

Be careful, if we capture them then yes they need a trial. If we shoot them in the commission of piracy, that is fully kosher.

Oh, I agree entirely. We can, if they refuse to surrender when summoned, simply blow them away.

638 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:35:20pm

re: #627 Bagua

Correct. As to "releasing prisoners" to a certain death, that is savage and unacceptable.

an eye for an eye bro....might makes right sometimes

639 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:35:24pm

re: #622 LudwigVanQuixote

You said:

Be careful, if we capture them then yes they need a trial. If we shoot them in the commission of piracy, that is fully kosher.

That sounds like you were advocating that they be shot. Those men surrendered and were taken prisoner.

640 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:35:37pm
Youtube Video


MSA member: Good evening, I just wanted to say thank you for coming to campus tonight and presenting your point of view, its always important to have to sets of, ah, views going on at the same time. Um, very useful. My name is [Jimena Imad Musa Ahmal Bahiri](sp) and I’m a student here at UCSD. Ah I was reading your literature, I found that much more interesting than your talk, and I found some interesting things about the MSA, which is an organization that is very active on campus and is hosting our annual “Hitler Youth” week, you should come out to those events. Um, if you could clarify the connection between the MSA and Jihad terrorist networks, because last time I checked, we had to do our own fundraising, and we never get help from anyone. So if you could clarify the connection between UCSD’s MSA or if you don’t have such information, if you could connect other MSA’s on UC’s, because the connection wasn’t to clear in the pamphlet, just if you could clarify.

Horowitz: Okay. Will you condemn Hamas, here and now?

MSA member: I’m sorry, what?

Horowitz: Will you condemn Hamas?

MSA member: Would I condemn Hamas?

Horowitz: As a terrorist organization. Genocidal organization.

MSA member: Are you asking me to put myself on a cross?

Horowitz: So you won’t. I have actually had this experience many times. You didn’t actually read the pamphlet, because the pamphlet is chapter and verse. The main connection is that the MSA is part of the Muslim Brotherhood Network as revealed…

MSA member: I don’t think you understood what I meant by that. I meant if I say something, I am sure that I will be arrested, for reasons of homeland security. So if you could please just answer my question.

Horowitz: If you condemn Hamas, Homeland Security will arrest you?

MSA member: If I support Hamas, because your question forces me to condemn Hamas. If I support Hamas, I look really bad.

Horowitz: If you don’t condemn Hamas, obviously you support it. Case closed. I have had this experience at UC Santa Barbara, where there were 50 members of the Muslim Students Association sitting right in the rows there. And throughout my hour talk I kept asking them, will you condemn Hizbollah and Hamas. And none of them would. And then when the question period came, the president of the Muslim Students Association was the first person to ask a question. And I said, ‘Before you start, will you condemn Hizbollah?’ And he said, ‘Well, that question is too complicated for a yes or no answer.’ So I said, ‘Okay, I’ll put it to you this way. I am a Jew. The head of Hizbollah has said that he hopes that we will gather in Israel so he doesn’t have to hunt us down globally. For or Against it?

MSA member: For it.

Horowitz: Thank you for coming and showing everybody what’s here.

641 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:35:40pm

re: #620 Cato the Elder

First, I don't believe we do have the power to stop it. Two, what "action" would you have me take? Hop up and down on one leg and scream at people?

Well, you could likely do several dozen small and relatively painless changes in your routine that would lower your personal footprint. You could better learn the science and understand what the problems really are and how they are addressable. Thus, when you write about the issue, you could talk about the actual technological solutions that do exist and how it is possible to make a difference. You could write your congress critter that you get it and demand he/she/it take action and vote accordingly.

You could tell others.

Or, you could be a whiny pissbag who would rather lament his own death for three years and blame others as the "redmeat of humanity" for his own lack of actions. Secret for you Cato, if you do nothing, you are part of that redmeat that you disparage so much and no better at all.

642 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:35:46pm

re: #598 Locker

You are like my old girlfriend who would never hang up the phone. You keep saying another day and then you respond. Information tease!

I'm not sympathetic to the Goldilocks Theory of agnosticism. :)

643 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:36:13pm

re: #635 engineer dog

it seems now that all citizens have equal rights, but some citizens have rights that are more equal than others

This is new?

644 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:36:40pm

Well, at least we're no longer seeing that brain-dead old saw "It takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in creationism" that was once so often used on threads like this.

Progress!

645 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:36:55pm

re: #631 Naso Tang

You forgot the eventual "green card" ad/or asylum.//

former killer pirate now in the pool cleaning business in Tampa....gotta love it

646 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:37:16pm

re: #638 albusteve

an eye for an eye bro...might makes right sometimes

I disagree, such savagery is beneath us. If we are to execute them, fine, but after due process is followed.

647 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:38:08pm

re: #636 Locker

Well I think it's a line between military vs private security. But in either case, if you are being fired at or even threatened with weapons you can respond with deadly fire. Period.

Now, if the military comes up to some hijacked boat and the pirates surrender then we should take them prisoner. We don't kill prisoners.

Private security doesn't have that quandary as they are on the scene pre-hijack attempt and are purely defensive.

Agreed. The pirate who was killed during the recapture was a fully legit kill, but if we'd captured the other 10, we would be obliged to try them.

648 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:38:30pm

re: #621 albusteve

prove it if it's that important to you...I've posted that line since before you were registered...same with my refusal to quibble over science...get to the solutions and forge ahead...your claim to credit is laughable

Attempt 9 at trolling Stevo?

lol.
re: #626 albusteve

yeah, read them their Mirandas and give them American rights to CNN exposure, then a 5 year trial before we cut them loose...good thinking


Attempt 10?

Troll fail...

649 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:39:19pm

Coming across this article:

Study explores religion and mental health care

Doctoral student Bronwyn Clark says studies overseas have shown that a therapist's understanding of a client's deeply held religious or spiritual views and values is crucial in developing effective treatment, but anecdotal evidence suggest therapists in New Zealand typically steer clear of discussing religious beliefs.

[...]

"Religion is not some kind of add-on. It's a fundamental part of who a person is, it colours everything. To ignore or neglect this creates major limitations to therapy. Spiritual and religious concerns are intimately connected with mental health in numerous ways that can be considered to both help and hinder."

[...]

She says that for some mental health professionals, discussing a person's religious beliefs is "in the too-hard basket", irrespective of the religious beliefs of the therapist. "There is a big fear around ethics - how do you discuss a client's religious and spiritual beliefs sensitively? There isn't any training to deal with this."

.... raises a question. In a modern society like ours, if someone believes the Earth (and the universe) is only 6014 years old, should that been seen as a sign of mental illness?

Are YEC's not exhibiting what may be called a "delusional disorder" in the DSM?

650 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:39:30pm

re: #638 albusteve

an eye for an eye bro...might makes right sometimes

might always makes right. That generally pisses off the unmighty.

651 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:39:43pm

re: #642 Nimed

I'm not sympathetic to the Goldilocks Theory of agnosticism. :)

I don't know if I'm sympathetic or not as my google efforts leave me even more confused. WTF is the Goldilocks Theory of Agnosticism.

Personally I find Agnosticism to be the "spiritual" expression of quantum physics and probability.

652 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:40:00pm

re: #636 Locker

Well I think it's a line between military vs private security. But in either case, if you are being fired at or even threatened with weapons you can respond with deadly fire. Period.

Now, if the military comes up to some hijacked boat and the pirates surrender then we should take them prisoner. We don't kill prisoners.

Private security doesn't have that quandary as they are on the scene pre-hijack attempt and are purely defensive.

Exactly.

653 Linden Arden  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:40:23pm

I love a good knish.

(random musing)

654 sattv4u2  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:41:11pm

re: #653 Linden Arden

I love a good knish.

(random musing)

The lonely wolf bays at the moon

(hey ,, it's been on my mind for awhile!!)

655 engineer cat  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:41:20pm

re: #643 Naso Tang

This is new?

got me there

656 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:42:01pm

re: #639 Bagua


That sounds like you were advocating that they be shot. Those men surrendered and were taken prisoner.

So far they, the pirates, have learned that the worst case that can happen if they don't succeed, and surrender, is that they will lose their equipment and either be release or be fed and given medical treatment, and probably be sent home in due course.

Do you think this is a plan to reduce piracy?

This would all end overnight if no prisoners were taken.

Send in the Russians, I say.

657 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:42:27pm

re: #647 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. The pirate who was killed during the recapture was a fully legit kill, but if we'd captured the other 10, we would be obliged to try them.

None of which means I didn't laugh my ass off and say "You gotta love the Russians" when I saw that shit. Yea yea I'm going against my morality by proxy but that's humanity for you.. I 85% think we should try pirates and terrorists before we execute them but the other 15% didn't go anywhere and quite enjoys a good laugh when things go his way.

658 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:42:35pm

re: #653 Linden Arden

I love a good knish.

(random musing)

Now I am hungry. Be well all. Gotta go for a bit.

659 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:43:01pm

re: #641 LudwigVanQuixote

Secret for you Cato, if you do nothing, you are part of that redmeat that you disparage so much and no better at all.

I am part of the meat avalanche. I have no choice in the matter. Nor do I disparage the avalanche. It is what it is: a force of nature. You are the one who thinks he's above the crowd. Hint: you are not. You are a shouter, I am a mocker. We will both tumble down the mountain and crush whatever is in the path of the avalanche of which we are part.

660 Summer Seale  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:43:17pm

I'm going to bed, everyone. Have a great night. =)

(No whips or chains tonight, I'm afraid, Cato...) =)

661 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:43:24pm

re: #648 LudwigVanQuixote

Attempt 10?

Troll fail...

you've been calling me a troll for months now but it doesn't stick....you have an inflated sense of worth around here...this infatuation with trolling is bad form bro, and further I like posting with you, but you get way too defensive because I disagree with your style and sometimes, your message....relax and try to have a positive outlook

662 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:43:25pm

re: #636 Locker

Well I think it's a line between military vs private security. But in either case, if you are being fired at or even threatened with weapons you can respond with deadly fire. Period.

Now, if the military comes up to some hijacked boat and the pirates surrender then we should take them prisoner. We don't kill prisoners.

Private security doesn't have that quandary as they are on the scene pre-hijack attempt and are purely defensive.

What about all that "take no prisoners" crap in Lawrence of Arabia? Oh...Arabs...never mind.

663 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:43:45pm

re: #644 Slumbering Behemoth

"Evolutionism is a religion" is now a popular claim on creationist blogs.

I think it's part of the suggested marriage of post-modernism with creationism, similar to what is discussed here:

Creationism as postmodernism and Marxism

664 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:44:23pm

re: #661 albusteve

Steve, you're a good man.
LVQ, so are you.

665 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:44:28pm

re: #661 albusteve

The martyrdom gene is strong with some.

666 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:44:57pm

re: #661 albusteve

you've been calling me a troll for months now but it doesn't stick...you have an inflated sense of worth around here...this infatuation with trolling is bad form bro, and further I like posting with you, but you get way too defensive because I disagree with your style and sometimes, your message...relax and try to have a positive outlook

Anyone who disagrees with LVQ is a troll. Didn't you get the memo from the troll office?

667 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:45:01pm

re: #625 freetoken

Probably an understatement.

"Think Ann Coulter, but with even less restraint or shame, or education, or sobriety, or writing ability, or.... Seriously, I could go on and on."

668 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:45:15pm

re: #660 Summer

I'm going to bed, everyone. Have a great night. =)

(No whips or chains tonight, I'm afraid, Cato...) =)

Sigh.

669 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:45:23pm

It is well within the powers and abilities of the developed world to deal with the pirates forcefully, without ourselves becoming bloodthirsty savages.

To hell with the Russians, we in the West have values to uphold. Period.

670 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:45:50pm

re: #666 NJDhockeyfan

Anyone who disagrees with LVQ is a troll. Didn't you get the memo from the troll office?

Hey, I disagree with LVQ on my warp drive and he doesn't call me a troll.
:P

671 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:45:57pm

re: #664 Varek Raith

Steve, you're a good man.
LVQ, so are you.

Verek - you are a bad man. Sorry. Grading on a curve.. ;)

672 Linden Arden  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:46:11pm

re: #663 freetoken

"Evolutionism is a religion" is now a popular claim on creationist blogs.

I think it's part of the suggested marriage of post-modernism with creationism, similar to what is discussed here:

Creationism as postmodernism and Marxism

What do they think of us existentialists?

us = me and some haughty novelists.

673 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:46:13pm

The Bat Phone is ringing. BBL

674 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:46:17pm

We've had a steady stream of crazies to keep us entertained. The Sigma X melt down yesterday was a thing of wonder. What a pimp.

675 bratwurst  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:46:17pm

re: #618 Spare O'Lake

So are you willing to back up your assertion here that the appointment Rehnquist as a non-judge was preferable to that of Kagan's because he "had a completely non-partisan resume" against the following?

Rehnquist's path to the U.S. Supreme Court began in Arizona REPUBLICAN PARTY politics of the 1950s. Under the leadership of U.S. Senator BARRY M. GOLDWATER, the party became the dominant force in Arizona government, espousing a political view that was more rigid and doctrinaire than that of the national Republican party. Rehnquist became active in the party and made the acquaintance of RICHARD G. KLEINDIENST, an attorney who chaired the state Republican Party and who was a close adviser to Goldwater. Kleindienst served as Rehnquist's political mentor and involved him in the 1964 presidential election that Goldwater lost to President LYNDON B. JOHNSON.

In 1968, Kleindienst worked on RICHARD M. NIXON's presidential campaign. After Nixon was elected, he appointed Kleindienst to be deputy attorney general. Kleindienst in turn recommended Rehnquist for the position of assistant attorney general in charge of the Office of Legal Counsel in the U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. Attorney General JOHN N. MITCHELL was initially reluctant to hire Rehnquist, but, after interviewing him, Mitchell became convinced that Rehnquist was the right person for the job.

As head of the Office of Legal Counsel, Rehnquist supplied legal advice to all of the departments of the federal government. He also became one of the most stalwart defenders of the Nixon administration's policies.

[Link: law.jrank.org...]

676 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:46:19pm

re: #671 cliffster

Verek - you are a bad man. Sorry. Grading on a curve.. ;)

Well, duh. I'm Sith.

677 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:46:30pm

re: #657 Locker

None of which means I didn't laugh my ass off and say "You gotta love the Russians" when I saw that shit. Yea yea I'm going against my morality by proxy but that's humanity for you.. I 85% think we should try pirates and terrorists before we execute them but the other 15% didn't go anywhere and quite enjoys a good laugh when things go his way.

Hey, I'm exactly the same way. On more than one level i like what the Russians did to those pirates, but Ludwig's right about that: It's not a way America should want to be. We tell the world we're better than such things, and if we want anyone to believe us we have to show ourselves as better, even when its tough.

678 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:47:11pm

re: #649 freetoken

Coming across this article:

Study explores religion and mental health care

... raises a question. In a modern society like ours, if someone believes the Earth (and the universe) is only 6014 years old, should that been seen as a sign of mental illness?

Are YEC's not exhibiting what may be called a "delusional disorder" in the DSM?

1. They're not delusional, they are simply choosing to believe something against available scientific evidence. That's not an illness, that's human nature.

2. Given how things turned out when the Soviets went down this road, I would state without reservation that it is better for a society to have people believing weird shit of their own free will than to try to treat religious belief as a psychiatric disorder.

679 sattv4u2  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:47:50pm

re: #659 Cato the Elder

You are the one who thinks he's above the crowd.

re: #661 albusteve

you have an inflated sense of worth around here


Houston, we have a pattern !!

680 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:48:04pm

re: #674 prairiefire

We've had a steady stream of crazies to keep us entertained. The Sigma X melt down yesterday was a thing of wonder. What a pimp.

That was an amusing hour. Has he been back since then?

681 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:48:22pm

re: #662 Spare O'Lake

What about all that "take no prisoners" crap in Lawrence of Arabia? Oh...Arabs...never mind.

I strongly suggest against taking "Lawrence of Arabia" as a model for dealing with pirates.

682 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:48:39pm

re: #680 NJDhockeyfan

That was an amusing hour. Has he been back since then?

Stinky got him. He's an ex-Sigma.

683 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:49:15pm

re: #680 NJDhockeyfan

That was an amusing hour. Has he been back since then?

His account was blocked. The elders had him tagged as a con man.

684 sattv4u2  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:49:27pm

re: #682 Cato the Elder

Stinky got him. He's an ex-Sigma.

Sigma got the axe??!??!

Pray tell, what was the subject at hand?

685 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:49:29pm

re: #678 SanFranciscoZionist

1. They're not delusional, they are simply choosing to believe something against available scientific evidence. That's not an illness, that's human nature.

One should be careful when confusing words like delusional with ignorant, even if the ignorance is deliberate.

686 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:49:38pm

re: #649 freetoken

Coming across this article:

Study explores religion and mental health care

... raises a question. In a modern society like ours, if someone believes the Earth (and the universe) is only 6014 years old, should that been seen as a sign of mental illness?

Are YEC's not exhibiting what may be called a "delusional disorder" in the DSM?

You are getting at the core value of belief systems, you little scamp. Is it Nature or Nurture?

Here's a middle ground:

If they believe that The Old Sod is 6014 years old because of indoctrination and a stubborn monkey refusal to disrespect their teachers, then they are sane but misguided.

If they believe it because they believe they personally Created it, they have a mental illness.

687 researchok  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:50:01pm

Denis Leary:

Elena Kagan would become third Jewish Supreme Court Justice. May mean nothing to you but it's killing Mel Gibson.

688 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:50:16pm

re: #684 sattv4u2

Sigma got the axe??!??!

Pray tell, what was the subject at hand?

The subject was Sigma. This is how it goes with narcissistic weirdos.

689 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:50:25pm

re: #651 Locker

I don't know if I'm sympathetic or not as my google efforts leave me even more confused. WTF is the Goldilocks Theory of Agnosticism.

Personally I find Agnosticism to be the "spiritual" expression of quantum physics and probability.

Don't worry about it, true "atheists" know, they just know that there is no god(s), It is pretty much just as much a belief as those of us with faith.

The only real choices that can be logically (in the scientific sense) defended are either deist or agnostic. Everything else is either theist or to put it very, very bluntly, anti-theist. ;)

690 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:50:37pm

re: #659 Cato the Elder

I am part of the meat avalanche. I have no choice in the matter. Nor do I disparage the avalanche. It is what it is: a force of nature. You are the one who thinks he's above the crowd. Hint: you are not. You are a shouter, I am a mocker. We will both tumble down the mountain and crush whatever is in the path of the avalanche of which we are part.

Yes Cato, it is because I am doing things that I am different than you on this.

Even from a Darwinistic standpoint, action beats inaction.

691 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:50:42pm

re: #685 Naso Tang

One should be careful when confusing words like delusional with ignorant, even if the ignorance is deliberate.

Or, for that matter, delusional with pig-headed, or wrong, or in denial. You can be all of those things and not be psychiatrically ill.

692 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:51:01pm

re: #680 NJDhockeyfan

That was an amusing hour. Has he been back since then?

He has been banned. Only you damn right wingers could have so mercilessly pile on such a lovable individual as Sigma_x.

693 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:51:29pm

re: #684 sattv4u2

Sigma got the axe??!??!

Pray tell, what was the subject at hand?

When you have a free 20-30 minutes, start with the end of Sunday's overnight thread, and then all of the threads on Monday until late afternoon. It is a stunning display of delusion and narcissism. With graphs.

694 b_sharp  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:51:30pm

re: #227 jamesfirecat

I think on reflection when you said "these parts" you meant where you live in the real world, thus making my post sort of pointless but thank you for not jumping down my throat about it.

You've grown.

695 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:52:32pm

re: #663 freetoken

It used to be relatively "popular" here amongst a certain crowd. They have since moved on to less thought provoking pastures.

696 austin_blue  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:52:38pm

Night folks! Sweet dreams to all. SWMBO is back and it's conjugal time!

697 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:52:42pm

re: #526 LudwigVanQuixote

Great link!

I am really happy with people who spread awareness of these things. The technology for solutions is available and would be profitable in its own right if deployed.

This is exactly the kind of information that needs to be shared.

Here's another link I'm sure you will enjoy.

698 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:52:44pm

re: #684 sattv4u2

Sigma got the axe??!??!

Pray tell, what was the subject at hand?

You have to ask?
Himself! It was all he could talk/lie about!
Charles had warned him.

699 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:53:22pm

re: #691 SanFranciscoZionist

Or, for that matter, delusional with pig-headed, or wrong, or in denial. You can be all of those things and not be psychiatrically ill.

As Larry Summers put it, "THERE ARE IDIOTS. Look around.".

700 RogueOne  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:54:02pm

re: #659 Cato the Elder

I am a mocker.

+1 to the mockers.

701 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:54:06pm

re Pirates: Fuck them hard. Kill them where they stand. You wanna be a predator on the high seas? You will be treated like such.

Yeah I know, I have no heart. Sue me.

702 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:54:34pm

re: #666 NJDhockeyfan

Anyone who disagrees with LVQ is a troll. Didn't you get the memo from the troll office?

Well posts like that one certainly reinforce it hocky puck. It is not that you disagree with me that makes you a troll. It is not that you write mindless idiocy and drool the GOP line in knee jerk defenses of immoral actions that make you a troll. It is not that you are just simply uneducated, smug and arrogantly stupid that makes you a troll - though that helps. It is the whiny beta male way you try to snipe and bait that makes you one.

Just to be clear.

;)

703 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:54:37pm

re: #689 ausador

Don't worry about it, true "atheists" know, they just know that there is no god(s), It is pretty much just as much a belief as those of us with faith.

The only real choices that can be logically (in the scientific sense) defended are either deist or agnostic. Everything else is either theist or to put it very, very bluntly, anti-theist. ;)

Rubbish

::=)

704 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:54:40pm

re: #675 bratwurst

How long are you gonna hound me, shit-head?
Get a life.

705 sattv4u2  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:54:43pm

re: #688 cliffster

re: #693 prairiefire

re: #698 Floral Giraffe

Thanks,,, in the wee hours of tomorrow morning I'll go take a peek

706 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:54:52pm

re: #694 b_sharp

You've grown.

I know. Plus, he got a 92 on his exam. I feel so proud, sniff.

707 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:54:58pm

0re: #682 Cato the Elder

re: #683 prairiefire

re: #692 Nimed

I remember the day he signed up. He was obnoxious and rude from the get go. I told him I gave him 5 weeks before he was gone. He left right on schedule.

708 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:55:26pm

re: #678 SanFranciscoZionist

On the second point I agree with you.

On the first one, though, I fear that there is a spectrum of "creationism" delusion, and some have indeed fallen into mental illness. I say this after seeing over many years a variety of reactions by creationists when confronted with facts (from science). At the extreme end are those who clearly are emotionally disturbed by anything challenging them, to the point of histrionic demonstrations.

Perhaps it is a developmental issue, where some individuals become adults without any ability to deal with "outsiders".

Tests for rationality may be some of the slipperiest goals to attempt (in deal with people's mental health).

709 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:55:29pm

Evening Honcos.

710 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:55:33pm

re: #697 Alouette

Here's another link I'm sure you will enjoy.

Mermaids in Israel?

Wow...

711 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:55:39pm

re: #536 NJDhockeyfan

Russia don't play when it comes to Somali pirates hijacking their ships.

Russia says freed pirates didn't reach land

Heh.

Let me guess. They set them adrift in their own cigarette boat with a minimum of food, fuel and water.

712 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:56:06pm

re: #709 Cannadian Club Akbar

Evening Honcos.

Evening, guy who calls people Honco

713 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:56:19pm

re: #690 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes Cato, it is because I am doing things that I am different than you on this.

Even from a Darwinistic standpoint, action beats inaction.

you recycle and use curly light bulbs...fine....besides that what exactly are you doing beside reciting the same old meme over and over?...frankly you have no clue as to Cato's lifestyle or mine...you presume too much, posting day after day with the redundancy of a robocall...who do you work for?, whom pays your wages to finance this personal crusade?

714 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:56:34pm

re: #702 LudwigVanQuixote

Well posts like that one certainly reinforce it hocky puck. It is not that you disagree with me that makes you a troll. It is not that you write mindless idiocy and drool the GOP line in knee jerk defenses of immoral actions that make you a troll. It is not that you are just simply uneducated, smug and arrogantly stupid that makes you a troll - though that helps. It is the whiny beta male way you try to snipe and bait that makes you one.

Just to be clear.

;)

Calm down dude, I was teasing. Hasn't humor entered the LVQ household yet?

715 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:56:39pm

re: #700 RogueOne

+1 to the mockers.

+1 for unwittingly causing a Nostalgic Moment!

Youtube Video
716 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:56:53pm

re: #681 SanFranciscoZionist

I strongly suggest against taking "Lawrence of Arabia" as a model for dealing with pirates.

Did you think I was advocating it?

717 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:57:17pm

re: #706 prairiefire

I know. Plus, he got a 92 on his exam. I feel so proud, sniff.

What makes it amazing was that as I was grading myself I thought I got a 71 on the test....

718 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:57:43pm

Austin Blue, are you here?

This account in WSJ describes the blowout events essentially the same as what the Roi heard.

BP, the well owner, blames the failure of a big set of valves on the sea floor, known as the blowout preventer, to halt the blowout once it started.

A different account comes from Halliburton, a contractor in the drilling. This account is corroborated to some extent by Transocean, as well as by two workers on the drilling rig, The Wall Street Journal has determined.

This account describes a failure to place a cement plug within the well. The plug is designed to prevent gas from escaping up the pipe to the surface.

Before such a plug is placed, the job of keeping underground gas from coming up the pipe is done by heavy drilling fluid inside the well, commonly known as "mud." The plug is normally put in before the mud is removed, but according to the account of Halliburton, Transocean and the two workers, in this case, that wasn't done—drilling mud was removed before a final cement plug was placed in the well.

It is not clear why such a decision would have been made. Rig owner Transocean says that BP, as owner of the well that was just being completed, made key decisions on how to proceed. BP declined to comment on this account of the drilling procedures.

The Roi also thinks it's possible this formation is beginning to (or could) collapse in on itself, reducing the flow and could shut itself off naturally (given time). Does that sound possible to you?

Also - he said BP's drilling plan would have to have been approved by MMS. Sounds like heads might have to roll there, as well as elsewhere.

719 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:57:47pm

re: #707 NJDhockeyfan

0

re: #683 prairiefire

re: #692 Nimed

I remember the day he signed up. He was obnoxious and rude from the get go. I told him I gave him 5 weeks before he was gone. He left right on schedule.

You called it right on him, both ball and pocket.

720 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:58:01pm

re: #676 Varek Raith

Well, duh. I'm Sith.

Now I get it, that's how you're able to spend so much time here. You've become independently wealthy via the exclusive vodka trade.

/waitforit

721 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:58:03pm

re: #717 jamesfirecat

What makes it amazing was that as I was grading myself I thought I got a 71 on the test...

That's why you don't grade them
/congrats!!

722 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:58:06pm

re: #707 NJDhockeyfan

0

re: #683 prairiefire

re: #692 Nimed

I remember the day he signed up. He was obnoxious and rude from the get go. I told him I gave him 5 weeks before he was gone. He left right on schedule.

Some might say you had an eeringly prescient moment right there.

723 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:58:09pm

re: #669 Bagua

It is well within the powers and abilities of the developed world to deal with the pirates forcefully, without ourselves becoming bloodthirsty savages.

To hell with the Russians, we in the West have values to uphold. Period.

so what do you suggest we do with surrendered pirates?....stash them in Kenya?

724 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:59:08pm

re: #713 albusteve

Ug, accusations of astro-turfing and hidden agendas gets old. Not saying you don't have creeps like Sigma_x hanging around, but seriously...you couldn't pay me to post here ;-)

LVQ says "Little things matter!". People respond with "No, they don't". So LVQ assumes those people don't do the little things. Fairly logical if you ask me, not sure why it needs accusations of malice.

725 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:59:18pm

re: #678 SanFranciscoZionist

1. They're not delusional, they are simply choosing to believe something against available scientific evidence. That's not an illness, that's human nature.

2. Given how things turned out when the Soviets went down this road, I would state without reservation that it is better for a society to have people believing weird shit of their own free will than to try to treat religious belief as a psychiatric disorder.

You've made me think a bit and I have a question. This is going to be a bit of a challenge to put into words but let's give it a shot. I'm sure you are aware that I think of you as an intelligent, rational and thoughtful person.

Additionally, as a religious person, I find that you do not seem to cross the line where a person attempts to project their personal religious beliefs onto everyone, everything and every situation they encounter.

Why is that line crossed? Is it "evangelism"? Is it narcissism? Is it a faith based reality bubble?

Either way these line crossers don't seem to accept and support the fact that each person is entitled to their own reality. That baffles me and I'm wondering if you have any insight?

726 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:59:32pm

re: #711 Alouette

Let me guess. They set them adrift in their own cigarette boat with a minimum of food, fuel and water.

Moat likely they were killed before being set adrift.

727 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:59:47pm

re: #723 albusteve

so what do you suggest we do with surrendered pirates?...stash them in Kenya?

I suggest we give them a fair trail before a jury of as close to their peers as we can reasonably find and have the judge give them them the proper sentence which I can quite easily understand if its death/life in prison.

728 Linden Arden  Tue, May 11, 2010 7:59:51pm

re: #718 reine.de.tout

Check out the Oil Pollution Act of 1990.

I own stock in RIG. Liability is very limited - sad to say.

But I have to survive.

729 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:00:22pm

re: #723 albusteve

so what do you suggest we do with surrendered pirates?...stash them in Kenya?

IIRC marooning on a desert island is the humane middle ground.

730 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:00:26pm

re: #713 albusteve

you recycle and use curly light bulbs...fine...besides that what exactly are you doing beside reciting the same old meme over and over?...frankly you have no clue as to Cato's lifestyle or mine...you presume too much, posting day after day with the redundancy of a robocall...who do you work for?, whom pays your wages to finance this personal crusade?

Ohh I never try to educate people on the issues... and being a physicist who researches this in real life doesn't count either I guess... Yeah Stevo, right... I do nothing at all.

Though to be honest, if everyone used the curly lightbulbs and did all the practical non lazy things, it would have a giant impact.

That impact alone would not be sufficient, but it would be a much larger step in the right direction than you think.

Now that is attempt 11 to start a fight. How does failing to start one feel?

731 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:00:26pm

re: #714 NJDhockeyfan

Calm down dude, I was teasing. Hasn't humor entered the LVQ household yet?

You're such a Teasy Troll!

732 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:00:55pm

re: #702 LudwigVanQuixote

Well posts like that one certainly reinforce it hocky puck. It is not that you disagree with me that makes you a troll. It is not that you write mindless idiocy and drool the GOP line in knee jerk defenses of immoral actions that make you a troll. It is not that you are just simply uneducated, smug and arrogantly stupid that makes you a troll - though that helps. It is the whiny beta male way you try to snipe and bait that makes you one.

Just to be clear.

;)

pretty good...are you on a roll now?, getting that old rise back?

733 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:01:00pm

re: #727 jamesfirecat

I suggest we give them a fair trail before a jury of as close to their peers as we can reasonably find and have the judge give them them the proper sentence which I can quite easily understand if its death/life in prison then shoot them.

FIFY

734 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:01:14pm

re: #718 reine.de.tout

Austin Blue, are you here?

This account in WSJ describes the blowout events essentially the same as what the Roi heard.

The Roi also thinks it's possible this formation is beginning to (or could) collapse in on itself, reducing the flow and could shut itself off naturally (given time). Does that sound possible to you?

Also - he said BP's drilling plan would have to have been approved by MMS. Sounds like heads might have to roll there, as well as elsewhere.

This is a great link.

735 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:02:01pm

re: #725 Locker

Hope you don't mind me injecting myself into the discussion, but I've yet to meet anything even close to an 'Evangelical Jew'. I mean I think SFZ is totally awesome, but I think what you're describing somehow has its basis in Judaism. Sadly I don't know enough about Judaism to say why that's true.

736 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:02:54pm

'Audit the Fed' Passes 96-0

737 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:03:04pm

re: #674 prairiefire

We've had a steady stream of crazies to keep us entertained. The Sigma X melt down yesterday was a thing of wonder. What a pimp.

Bagua eated my followers!!11!!!1

738 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:03:41pm

re: #693 prairiefire

When you have a free 20-30 minutes, start with the end of Sunday's overnight thread, and then all of the threads on Monday until late afternoon. It is a stunning display of delusion and narcissism. With graphs.

With graphs.
LOL!
True.

Sigma was convinced:
Bagua hacked his twitter account and removed all of his 500 followers.
All of his problems here had to do with LGF right-wingers.
Obdicut kisses ass.
He's rich and we're not.
He has a gorgeous wife, and we don't.
He sees no problem promoting and engaging in illegal trading practices; mostly because it makes him rich (while we're not) and eligible to have a gorgeous wife (which we don't).

739 Ojoe  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:04:02pm

re: #725 Locker

Either way these line crossers don't seem to accept and support the fact that each person is entitled to their own reality.

It is a fine point, but I think "view" would be a better word than "reality" here, because reality is what it is.

740 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:04:08pm

re: #737 Bagua

Bagua eated my followers!!11!!!1

You are ebil!!
/

741 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:04:15pm

re: #737 Bagua

Bagua eated my followers!!11!!!1

Do you have any idea how long it takes to make 500 reasonably convincing twitter-socks?

742 Linden Arden  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:05:11pm

re: #736 NJDhockeyfan

'Audit the Fed' Passes 96-0

Populist claptrap.

The Fed has wrongly been placed alongside Fannie Mae as the prime culprit of the financial crisis.

743 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:05:32pm

re: #382 LudwigVanQuixote

IN fact here is a general statement on AGW and quixotic quests.

Just because the odds are against you, if failure is not an option, you are required to still try. With AGW, failure is not an option.

It doesn't matter if the fight is nearly impossible and likely doomed to fail. If the fight fails all fail.

So here is a pledge for AGW supporters and deniers alike.

I promise to keep bullying people, begging people to look, bludgeoning people with data and facts. I will never exaggerate with the harsh realities of the science. They are more harsh than I could confabulate if I tried.

I will continue to do so until the threads turn into discussions of what we are doing about it.

Because if people are doing things about it, they are also convincing others to do something about it.

Given that a year and a half ago, many here were openly spouting denier talking points, and now admit it is real, I think I have made tremendous progress.

It is only step one. When I see people writing stories about how they argued with this or that fool, how they greened up teir act, how they wrote their congress critter etc... We will have step two.

I don't claim to have swayed people here to the realities of AGW alone. People like Freetoken and Thanos and Obdicut and a few others, like Coracle who have since moved on, helped tremendously.

Charles helped the most. I give him the biggest props ever for taking the time to look into it himself, teach himself the science and speak truth. I would like to take some small credit for being the actual expert who fought this the most doggedly - but it means nothing if we don't move to the second step.

Are you channeling Churchill? Or is it just that there often really is just one answer, and anybody who can think will reach it?

If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

744 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:05:55pm

re: #689 ausador

Don't worry about it, true "atheists" know, they just know that there is no god(s), It is pretty much just as much a belief as those of us with faith.

The only real choices that can be logically (in the scientific sense) defended are either deist or agnostic. Everything else is either theist or to put it very, very bluntly, anti-theist. ;)

Personally I was raised as Presbyterian and have dabbled in this and that very, very thoroughly. I also consider myself to be reasonably intelligent and fairly logical. I gave the deist thing a fair shake and came out saying..

I don't know a goddamn thing and I don't believe a goddamn thing. I'm clueless!

Once I became OK with that feeling I learned that it had a name, agnosticism.

745 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:05:59pm

re: #734 LudwigVanQuixote

This is a great link.

Yes, it is easily understandable.
But it appears Austin_Blue left before I posted that.
drat.

746 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:06:02pm

re: #709 Cannadian Club Akbar

Evening Honcos.

Long live the Gaza Rooster!
Hi CCA!

747 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:06:28pm

re: #725 Locker

You've made me think a bit and I have a question. This is going to be a bit of a challenge to put into words but let's give it a shot. I'm sure you are aware that I think of you as an intelligent, rational and thoughtful person.

Additionally, as a religious person, I find that you do not seem to cross the line where a person attempts to project their personal religious beliefs onto everyone, everything and every situation they encounter.

Why is that line crossed? Is it "evangelism"? Is it narcissism? Is it a faith based reality bubble?

Either way these line crossers don't seem to accept and support the fact that each person is entitled to their own reality. That baffles me and I'm wondering if you have any insight?

They do it for the same reasons that anyone does such things - assuming we are not talking calls to arms or legitimately standing up to something terrible or illegitimately trying to impose political power. They are uncertain in their own faith enough to be threatened by other views, so they project.

It's pretty simple.

748 researchok  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:06:57pm

re: #738 reine.de.tout

With graphs.
LOL!
True.

Sigma was convinced:
Bagua hacked his twitter account and removed all of his 500 followers.
All of his problems here had to do with LGF right-wingers.
Obdicut kisses ass.
He's rich and we're not.
He has a gorgeous wife, and we don't.
He sees no problem promoting and engaging in illegal trading practices; mostly because it makes him rich (while we're not) and eligible to have a gorgeous wife (which we don't).

I really need to quit working so much and hang out around here more. I always miss the good stuff.

749 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:07:03pm

re: #746 Floral Giraffe

Long live the Gaza Rooster!
Hi CCA!

*waves*

750 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:07:14pm

re: #741 McSpiff

Do you have any idea how long it takes to make 500 reasonably convincing twitter-socks?

That part was as amusing as his pretending to be a professional trader, getting 500 twitter followers after 6 months of "hard work" is a mark of failure, not success.

751 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:07:18pm

I think those Fed smarty pants should be able to handle an audit.

752 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:07:27pm

re: #720 Slumbering Behemoth

Now I get it, that's how you're able to spend so much time here. You've become independently wealthy via the exclusive vodka trade.

What, no bites? :(

753 cliffster  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:07:35pm

re: #736 NJDhockeyfan

'Audit the Fed' Passes 96-0

Good grief. A "one-time" audit though. I guess they'll have to pass a bill every time they want to audit then. Maybe include it as a line-item in future bills. Let's make Congress more complicated!

754 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:07:40pm

re: #737 Bagua

Bagua eated my followers!!11!!!1

Actually, all you did was show he was full of crap. Afterwards, he did what trolls do: screamed, spewed, then melted down. He had no answer to logic, so he came apart.

755 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:07:57pm

re: #743 lostlakehiker

If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

Perfect quote.

756 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:08:20pm

re: #738 reine.de.tout

With graphs.
LOL!
True.

Sigma was convinced:
Bagua hacked his twitter account and removed all of his 500 followers.
All of his problems here had to do with LGF right-wingers.
Obdicut kisses ass.
He's rich and we're not.
He has a gorgeous wife, and we don't.
He sees no problem promoting and engaging in illegal trading practices; mostly because it makes him rich (while we're not) and eligible to have a gorgeous wife (which we don't).

"Extremely old Turkish right wingers with funny names and no life ruined my professional contacts."

The painful truth is we all felt like this at some point of our lives.

757 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:08:20pm

re: #737 Bagua

Bagua eated my followers!!11!!!1

I think it's sorta like "King for a day" though.
He's gone and, what have you done for me TODAY?

758 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:09:14pm

re: #737 Bagua

Bagua eated my followers!!11!!!1

I really do have to give you credit for that one.
re: #738 reine.de.tout

With graphs.
LOL!
True.

Sigma was convinced:
Bagua hacked his twitter account and removed all of his 500 followers.
All of his problems here had to do with LGF right-wingers.
Obdicut kisses ass.
He's rich and we're not.
He has a gorgeous wife, and we don't.
He sees no problem promoting and engaging in illegal trading practices; mostly because it makes him rich (while we're not) and eligible to have a gorgeous wife (which we don't).

I wonder where he is attempting his scams now?

759 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:10:07pm

re: #757 Floral Giraffe

I think it's sorta like "King for a day" though.
He's gone and, what have you done for me TODAY?

I have threatened to spank you ;)

760 RogueOne  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:10:11pm

re: #742 Linden Arden

Populist claptrap.

The Fed has wrongly been placed alongside Fannie Mae as the prime culprit of the financial crisis.

You could prove that point if there were to be an audit but since there isn't....

761 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:10:20pm

re: #758 LudwigVanQuixote

He's all OVER twitter, tweeting his own horn.
If that's the right expression.
Tweeting his twits.

762 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:10:28pm

re: #754 Dark_Falcon

Actually, all you did was show he was full of crap. Afterwards, he did what trolls do: screamed, spewed, then melted down. He had no answer to logic, so he came apart.

Or more precisely, he had an answer for everything, including things no one asked or cared about. Those answers were also wrong.

763 avanti  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:10:30pm

Arizona Racism

Youtube Video
764 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:10:58pm

re: #744 Locker

Personally I was raised as Presbyterian and have dabbled in this and that very, very thoroughly. I also consider myself to be reasonably intelligent and fairly logical. I gave the deist thing a fair shake and came out saying..

I don't know a goddamn thing and I don't believe a goddamn thing. I'm clueless!

Once I became OK with that feeling I learned that it had a name, agnosticism.

Ex-Religious Agnostics Rule!

765 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:11:01pm

re: #759 LudwigVanQuixote

I have threatened to spank you ;)

Promises, promises, promises...
;)

766 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:11:17pm

0re: #748 researchok

I really need to quit working so much and hang out around here more. I always miss the good stuff.

Sigma_X made me late for work that day. I could tear myself from the computer. It was like watching a car wreck in slow motion.

767 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:12:01pm

re: #762 Bagua

Or more precisely, he had an answer for everything, including things no one asked or cared about. Those answers were also wrong.

It was awesome how you called him out, particularly on his illegal advocations.
Kudos to you!

768 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:12:05pm

re: #750 Bagua

That part was as amusing as his pretending to be a professional trader, getting 500 twitter followers after 6 months of "hard work" is a mark of failure, not success.

Here's the "bio" on his twitter account:

Bio: I enjoy making obscene amounts of money,... spending it on whores & drugs, & then just sort of blowing the rest.

I wonder how his gorgeous wife feels about his blowing money on whores.

And then there is this, one of FOUR comments at his blog:

Actual Trader [Moderator] 1 day ago
1 person liked this.
So you admit you made a beginner mistake, got spanked, and now you've learned your lesson and want to be a trading advisor? LOL.

Keep guessing, meanwhile all you are doing is providing liquidity for the actual professionals.

769 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:12:24pm

re: #735 McSpiff

Hope you don't mind me injecting myself into the discussion, but I've yet to meet anything even close to an 'Evangelical Jew'. I mean I think SFZ is totally awesome, but I think what you're describing somehow has its basis in Judaism. Sadly I don't know enough about Judaism to say why that's true.

Well, I wasn't really asking a Jewish question. More a question of a rational/nonevangelical religious person's opinion on the evangelical ones.

770 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:12:47pm

re: #756 Nimed

"Extremely old Turkish right wingers with funny names and no life ruined my professional contacts."

The painful truth is we all felt like this at some point of our lives.

And then we grew up.

771 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:12:59pm

re: #726 Dark_Falcon

Moat likely they were killed before being set adrift.

In the novel The Orpheus Deception by David Stone, Somali pirates attempt to capture an oil tanker which has already been hijacked by Bosnian terrorists.

They deal with the pirates in their own inimitable way.

772 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:13:03pm

re: #768 reine.de.tout

IIRC, he had a hot Iranian wife.

773 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:13:09pm

re: #744 Locker

Just a little more faith and you might be a Presbyterian! ZOMG! (mean that in a good way).

774 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:13:32pm

re: #765 Floral Giraffe

Promises, promises, promises...
;)

Hand, paddle, crop or strap? ;)

775 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:13:38pm

re: #768 reine.de.tout

All lies. It's the intertubes, he could be who he wanted to be!

776 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:14:01pm

re: #739 Ojoe

It is a fine point, but I think "view" would be a better word than "reality" here, because reality is what it is.

You can't prove that! ;)

I agree, when I reread it I thought I should have replaced reality with perspective or something.

777 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:14:19pm

re: #751 prairiefire

I think those Fed smarty pants should be able to handle an audit.

Audits, in general are fine. However, if we are to continue with our current monetary principle, that is one controlled at arms length from both Congress and the President and solely by the various Feds than an audit can only be called for from within. Otherwise we an encroaching on something we swore to keep impartial and apolitical.

We've given the Fed a truly incredible amount of power, essentially in return from saving us from ourselves. Now, this system in general has resulted in a currency that in previous centuries was almost unimaginable. I would argue that the American dollar is now more powerful than any currency in history.

So, while saying something simple like "Audit the fed!" makes a great bumper sticker, what we're really doing is examining the relationship between the American people, the American government and the American Dollar.

Which is fine. Ultimately it is the people's currency. But I think if that's the discussion we wish to have, we need to be honest and forthright about it, not hide behind bumper stickers and sound bites. There's simply too much at stake to do otherwise.

778 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:14:19pm

re: #774 LudwigVanQuixote

Hand, paddle, crop or strap? ;)

Yes, please!

779 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:14:28pm

re: #725 Locker

You've made me think a bit and I have a question. This is going to be a bit of a challenge to put into words but let's give it a shot. I'm sure you are aware that I think of you as an intelligent, rational and thoughtful person.

Additionally, as a religious person, I find that you do not seem to cross the line where a person attempts to project their personal religious beliefs onto everyone, everything and every situation they encounter.

Why is that line crossed? Is it "evangelism"? Is it narcissism? Is it a faith based reality bubble?

Either way these line crossers don't seem to accept and support the fact that each person is entitled to their own reality. That baffles me and I'm wondering if you have any insight?

Jesus charged each one of his believers with spreading the faith, of course in his version it was to live such an exemplary, peaceful, and content life that people would come to you and ask what it was that made you so happy when they were so miserable, (it was a different world back then after all too).

He also said to do all your praying in private to avoid becoming a pious "holier than thou" hypocrite, so...uhh...so much for the church.

Not sure your question can really be answered, since none of it has any basis in the bible at all, modern evangelicals are just making it up as they go along. It doesn't have a thing to do with anything Jesus taught, just like the supposed "rapture."

780 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:14:47pm

re: #775 Floral Giraffe

All lies. It's the intertubes, he could be who he wanted to be!

I AM A JEDI DAMN IT...

Ok no, I'm a thirty something physicist with a ponytail...

781 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:15:04pm

re: #738 reine.de.tout

With graphs.
LOL!
True.

Sigma was convinced:
Bagua hacked his twitter account and removed all of his 500 followers.
All of his problems here had to do with LGF right-wingers.
Obdicut kisses ass.
He's rich and we're not.
He has a gorgeous wife, and we don't.
He sees no problem promoting and engaging in illegal trading practices; mostly because it makes him rich (while we're not) and eligible to have a gorgeous wife (which we don't).

The funniest part?

He was a Lib.

782 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:15:38pm

re: #780 LudwigVanQuixote

I AM A JEDI DAMN IT...

Ok no, I'm a thirty something physicist with a ponytail...

Braided, or unbraided?

783 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:15:51pm

re: #758 LudwigVanQuixote

I wonder where he is attempting his scams now?

Well, there are no shortage of market con-men games out there. Judging by his writing, he will soon blow out his five tiny trading accounts and need a real job.

But as a wanna-be advisor he is doomed, his tweets were meaningless and un-tradable and his "blog" a farce. That he has to "work hard for six months to get 500 "followers"" for his free service does not sound at all promising.

784 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:15:53pm

re: #778 Floral Giraffe

Yes, please!

*smack* *SMACK* *snick* *CRACK*

785 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:15:55pm

re: #780 LudwigVanQuixote

I AM A JEDI DAMN IT...

Ok no, I'm a thirty something physicist with a ponytail...

That sounds like an action character... Have you ever given thought to... oh well, I'll save it.

786 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:16:28pm

re: #785 Casual Talker

No, please continue!

787 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:16:43pm

re: #774 LudwigVanQuixote

Hand, paddle, crop or strap? ;)

This kind of talk is going to make Rodan jealous.

788 Linden Arden  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:16:59pm

re: #760 RogueOne

You could prove that point if there were to be an audit but since there isn't...

The Fed is audited every year by Deloitte and Touche.

Congress wants to referee Open Market decisions = disaster in the making.,

789 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:17:05pm

re: #784 LudwigVanQuixote

You forgot switches :(

790 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:17:09pm

Speaking of AGW, one of the leading cheerleaders of science denialism, Steve Milloy, has a new piece in the Moonie Times:

Tree ring circus

Global-warming hysteria might be a crime

He's defending the VA AG's current witch-hunt of Prof. Mann. Of course he would, as he's been one of the biggest encouragers of this kind of nonsense.

791 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:17:18pm

re: #766 NJDhockeyfan

0

Sigma_X made me late for work that day. I could tear myself from the computer. It was like watching a car wreck in slow motion.

It's really hard to to log off from LGF when a troll is being frenzied. It's so pathetic to watch the troll while about how it is being abused after it flung insults and abuse. The banning, when it happens, seems entirely just and carries an air of celebration as the troll is carries to the barbecue pit and roasted.

792 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:17:29pm

Muhammad cartoonist 'head-butted' during lecture

STOCKHOLM – A Swedish artist who angered Muslims by depicting the Prophet Muhammad as a dog was assaulted as furious protesters interrupted his university lecture about the limits of free speech.

Lars Vilks told The Associated Press that a man leaped from the front row and head-butted him Tuesday as he was delivering his lecture at Uppsala University, breaking Vilks' glasses but leaving him uninjured.

Police later said the attacker was stopped before he could reach Vilks and that the artist may have bumped into plain-clothes officers who briskly evacuated him from the room. Three people were detained, but it wasn't immediately clear whether the attacker was among them.

A video clip of the incident by a Swedish newspaper showed police using pepper spray and batons to hold off an angry crowd shouting "God is great" in Arabic after Vilks was escorted out of the lecture hall.

Vilks has faced numerous threats over his controversial drawing of Muhammad with a dog's body, but Tuesday's incident was the first physical assault directed against him.

793 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:17:38pm

re: #786 Floral Giraffe

No, please continue!

Well... it sounded halfway like a pitch to a Hollywood executive, so I was just taking it to its next logical step, no?!?

794 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:17:45pm

re: #782 Floral Giraffe

Braided, or unbraided?

Unbraided. It makes it easier to do the dramatic let your hair down and look byronic when wearing all black Dom attire.

795 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:17:58pm

Mommy Rhapsody

Vimeo
796 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:17:58pm

re: #747 LudwigVanQuixote

They do it for the same reasons that anyone does such things - assuming we are not talking calls to arms or legitimately standing up to something terrible or illegitimately trying to impose political power. They are uncertain in their own faith enough to be threatened by other views, so they project.

It's pretty simple.

Fair enough so let's go one level deeper. What keeps them there? Is that sort of behavior so self perpetuating that they are completely incapable of growth? Is it really that big of a leap from "hey if I force my shit on to them then that could happen to me"?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass I just don't understand why it's so... rampant.

797 bratwurst  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:18:28pm

re: #704 Spare O'Lake

How long are you gonna hound me, shit-head?
Get a life.

Until you answer the question?

And no, I am not going to lower myself to your level and reciprocate your nastiness. An explanation of your erroneous statement will satisfy me. Thank you in advance.

798 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:18:36pm

re: #767 Floral Giraffe

It was awesome how you called him out, particularly on his illegal advocations.
Kudos to you!

Thank you my dear, he got my Irish up with the nasty and personal attacks on Walter and Cato, the rest was easy.

799 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:18:39pm

re: #651 Locker

WTF is the Goldilocks Theory of Agnosticism

Oh, come on. Goldilocks. "Just right". Search those childhood memories.

800 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:18:59pm

re: #789 Floral Giraffe

You forgot switches :(

Did I? That is only if you have been either very good or very bad Miss Floral ;)

801 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:19:20pm

re: #789 Floral Giraffe

You forgot switches :(


He forgot belts, whips, canes and floggers too

802 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:19:30pm

re: #791 Dark_Falcon

It's really hard to to log off from LGF when a troll is being frenzied. It's so pathetic to watch the troll while about how it is being abused after it flung insults and abuse. The banning, when it happens, seems entirely just and carries an air of celebration as the troll is carries to the barbecue pit and roasted.

We need some troll pinatas for a more festive atmosphere this summer.

803 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:19:42pm

re: #787 Reginald Perrin

This kind of talk is going to make Rodan jealous.

He fantasizes these things, while paying for a booth in t Times Square Peep Booth.

804 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:19:59pm

Fine, I'll do it myself :sigh: 9_9

re: #676 Varek Raith

Well, duh. I'm Sith.

re: #720 Slumbering Behemoth

Now I get it, that's how you're able to spend so much time here. You've become independently wealthy via the exclusive vodka trade.

Because only the Sith deal in Absolut.

/fizzle

805 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:20:04pm

re: #796 Locker

Fair enough so let's go one level deeper. What keeps them there? Is that sort of behavior so self perpetuating that they are completely incapable of growth? Is it really that big of a leap from "hey if I force my shit on to them then that could happen to me"?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass I just don't understand why it's so... rampant.

Because people lash out when they feel threatened. Then they feel vindicated by being told how right they were. It is much less complicated than you are making it.

806 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:20:06pm

re: #769 Locker

Well, I wasn't really asking a Jewish question. More a question of a rational/nonevangelical religious person's opinion on the evangelical ones.

I think, well, actually, no, I know there are people who think it is their obligation to SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVE everybody with their particular brand of faith.

I personally don't think there is any way God is going to send everybody to hell EXCEPT those few who have found TRUTH in one particular brand of faith. So, I'm not big in favor of proselytizing.

Mission work, charity work - all OK. But those who are "in your face" about it are just going about it the wrong way. Just my .02.

807 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:20:21pm

re: #792 NJDhockeyfan

Muhammad cartoonist 'head-butted' during lecture

The Cartoon Jihad continues. File this under the "ROPMA" category.

808 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:21:12pm

re: #779 ausador

Jesus charged each one of his believers with spreading the faith, of course in his version it was to live such an exemplary, peaceful, and content life that people would come to you and ask what it was that made you so happy when they were so miserable, (it was a different world back then after all too).

He also said to do all your praying in private to avoid becoming a pious "holier than thou" hypocrite, so...uhh...so much for the church.

Not sure your question can really be answered, since none of it has any basis in the bible at all, modern evangelicals are just making it up as they go along. It doesn't have a thing to do with anything Jesus taught, just like the supposed "rapture."

What rapture? Where is there a rapture in the Hebrew or Greek texts?

809 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:21:23pm

re: #801 Reginald Perrin

He forgot belts, whips, canes and floggers too

Did I?

I was actually going to move on to old fashioned ropes, leather shackles or hardware?

810 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:21:32pm

re: #800 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #801 Reginald Perrin

Choices, choices, choices!
LOL!

811 prairiefire  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:21:42pm

re: #769 Locker

Well, I wasn't really asking a Jewish question. More a question of a rational/nonevangelical religious person's opinion on the evangelical ones.

That question has many answers...

812 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:21:52pm

re: #781 Racer X

The funniest part?

He was a Lib.

He thought he was.
I thought he was just an asshole.

813 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:22:57pm

re: #810 Floral Giraffe

re: #801 Reginald Perrin

Choices, choices, choices!
LOL!

Yes but not your choice ;)

814 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:23:13pm

re: #812 reine.de.tout

I thought he was just here to pimp his tweets. And his supposed "expertise"!

815 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:23:23pm

re: #795 Racer X

Mommy Rhapsody


[Video]

OK that was funny as hell!

Momma, oooooooh
I don't wanna die
Well, you should have thought of that before you broke my lamp!

816 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:23:47pm

re: #802 NJDhockeyfan

We need some troll pinatas for a more festive atmosphere this summer.

We can a page from the Incas for that: We'll flay a troll alive and use its skin to make a pinata.

817 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:24:12pm

re: #803 Floral Giraffe

He fantasizes these things, while paying for a booth in t Times Square Peep Booth.

That was back in the day, now he fantasies about it while hanging out and toe tapping at rest stops on I 75 just outside of Tampa.

818 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:24:13pm

re: #814 Floral Giraffe

I thought he was just here to pimp his tweets. And his supposed "expertise"!

Agree!
And that's what made him such an asshole.
He truly had no clue he had stumbled upon the smartest place on the internet.

819 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:24:24pm

re: #808 Walter L. Newton

What rapture? Where is there a rapture in the Hebrew or Greek texts?

Blondie speaks about rapture. That's good enough for me.

820 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:25:23pm

re: #773 Casual Talker

Just a little more faith and you might be a Presbyterian! ZOMG! (mean that in a good way).

Hey there is truth in jest!

And in this case... you are absolutely correct. Of all the things I tried, being a Presbyterian was the easiest. You don't kneel, Communion is wonder bread and grape juice and you read a paragraph from the program as a group to confess and it goes something like this...

Sins are bad m'kay. I did sins and I was bad m'kay. Please forgive me m'kay?

821 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:25:27pm

re: #817 Reginald Perrin

That was back in the day, now he fantasies about it while hanging out and toe tapping at rest stops on I 75 just outside of Tampa.

oooh!

Low blow.
Upding!

822 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:25:30pm

re: #814 Floral Giraffe

I thought he was just here to pimp his tweets. And his supposed "expertise"!

Yeah, the more I look at it, the more I think it really was just a scam.

823 sattv4u2  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:25:32pm

re: #808 Walter L. Newton

Still snowing ??

Oh, wait

It's still Colorado and it's still May ,, nevahmind!

824 b_sharp  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:25:50pm

re: #564 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

People do not appear to be getting my request right...

I just mailed you a Sleemans.

825 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:25:53pm

re: #819 Casual Talker

Blondie speaks about rapture. That's good enough for me.

That's so funny... I guess that means you don't know the answer either. Thanks for playing.

826 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:26:18pm

re: #817 Reginald Perrin

That was back in the day, now he fantasies about it while hanging out and toe tapping at rest stops on I 75 just outside of Tampa.


That isn't fair to those of us who live here. He was in Miami. I 95.
/

827 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:26:26pm

re: #817 Reginald Perrin

That was back in the day, now he fantasies about it while hanging out and toe tapping at rest stops on I 75 just outside of Tampa.

Can you tell the story without naming names?

A tale of say R and Bubba?

828 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:26:43pm

re: #825 Walter L. Newton

That's so funny... I guess that means you don't know the answer either. Thanks for playing.

It was fun. Do I get a prize?

829 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:26:56pm

re: #809 LudwigVanQuixote

Did I?

I was actually going to move on to old fashioned ropes, leather shackles or hardware?

ever consider using your own fleshy hardware? or do you need accessories?....hahaha!...don't reply please

830 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:26:59pm

re: #797 bratwurst

Hi stupid.

831 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:27:39pm

re: #777 McSpiff

Audits, in general are fine. However, if we are to continue with our current monetary principle, that is one controlled at arms length from both Congress and the President and solely by the various Feds than an audit can only be called for from within. Otherwise we an encroaching on something we swore to keep impartial and apolitical.

Stop saying WE you fucking Canadian!

832 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:27:50pm

re: #823 sattv4u2

Still snowing ??

Oh, wait

It's still Colorado and it's still May ,, nevahmind!

Yes, it's snowing, but it's actually light, not as heavy as first expected, but it's also possible it hasn't really started big time yet... this storm has been slow in moving in, it may or may not dump as much as expected... the heaviest may stay a bit north of Denver... we'll see.

833 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:27:53pm

re: #807 Dark_Falcon

The Cartoon Jihad continues. File this under the "ROPMA" category.

I found the video of the attack.

Youtube Video

Allah Akbar!

834 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:27:56pm

re: #768 reine.de.tout

Keep guessing, meanwhile all you are doing is providing liquidity for the actual professionals.

For those not familiar with financial jargon, saying the Sigma_x is "providing liquidity for the actual professionals" means that he is buying when they want to sell, and selling when they want to buy. A losing game.

Retail traders who think they are clever and gifted are a big part of what makes the game profitable for the pros. Indeed, as many are quite smart and accomplished in their own fields - such as medicine, engineering and real estate - they fancy they can outwit the markets. Another losing game.

835 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:27:58pm

re: #825 Walter L. Newton

That's so funny... I guess that means you don't know the answer either. Thanks for playing.

And...how was Lost? (late to the thread, I may have missed your report)

836 sattv4u2  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:28:25pm

re: #832 Walter L. Newton

Yes, it's snowing, but it's actually light, not as heavy as first expected, but it's also possible it hasn't really started big time yet... this storm has been slow in moving in, it may or may not dump as much as expected... the heaviest may stay a bit north of Denver... we'll see.

Stay safe!

837 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:28:28pm

re: #822 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah, the more I look at it, the more I think it really was just a scam.

*gasp*

You mean he really doesn't have millions of dollars, a house in Malibu and married to a Brazilian supermodel?

I'm just *shocked*

838 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:28:51pm

re: #835 Stanley Sea

And...how was Lost? (late to the thread, I may have missed your report)

No report, it's still hasn't aired on the West coast... I don't want to drop any spoilers.

839 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:29:01pm

re: #597 Floral Giraffe

I think that if we were in the pirates shoes, with the options that the pirates have, and the potential CASH that the hijackings promise, we'd all be in a little boat, with the biggest gun we could afford. And attack anything we could get to. The Somali's do not have a lot of options. Google "Failed State" and it's the definition of Somalia.

Would we? Somalia is a failed state because everybody thinks that way, not the other way around. Her coasts are near enough to wealthier nations that if she had some law and order, the resort and tourist trade would bring more income than piracy does now.

We can maybe go on as we do now, steering around the problem zone. Unfortunately, it extends now more than halfway to India. For now, one feasible policy is to avoid sending U.S.-flagged ships into pirate waters unless they're well enough armed or fast enough they have nothing to fear.

The other answer to piracy is to arm the merchant ships, put Q ships in the mix to ambush and sink pirates that fall for the bait if they will not surrender, and generally meet force with superior force. If we go that route, it will be a hard path and we will have to expect that many of our own sailors and travelers will be killed.

Captured pirates should be held until such time as piracy has more or less died out in Somalia. But it will take great determination to hold prisoners, because the first few times we take prisoners, other pirates will take some of our people prisoner, demand we release ours, and then kill theirs when we don't release ours. We don't work like Russia; we won't kill everybody whose release was requested. We don't work like Russia, we won't kill all the pirates we encounter out of hand.

We might send some RPV's and PGM's to visit the warlords who kill our hostages. But that will be a tough call because those guys know the game and they will never be separated from their human shields, other mens' wives and other mens' children.

It will take the Somalis a good long time to figure out that we mean business and that the only way they'll win the release of the guys we're holding is by quitting piracy.

840 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:29:16pm

re: #781 Racer X

The funniest part?

He was a Lib.

All that other stuff was bullshit but you "believe" that he was a lib? Talk about environmentalists blowing up the oil rig.

841 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:29:36pm

re: #782 Floral Giraffe

Braided, or unbraided?

Trust FG to ask the really deep and pertinent questions. Yeah LVQ inquiring minds want to know, if braided what kind of braid? Amateur psychoanalysts are waiting for your reply.

/ ;)

842 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:29:46pm

Image: zNndF.jpg

843 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:29:49pm

re: #822 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah, the more I look at it, the more I think it really was just a scam.

I think he tried to rush the scam in the end. We saw the whole thing play out in fast-forward while his poorly crafted persona crumbled. He went from posting on his blog "Hey, I'm just figuring this stuff out too!" to "I'm a wildly successful multi-millionaire with a sexy wife!" literally in hours. I suspect he planned on making that metamorphoses over months or even years. I was a little surprised to see his blog still online today. Wonder if it'll see any updates, or if he'll just copy and paste it to a new domain and continue there.

844 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:29:53pm

re: #838 Walter L. Newton

No report, it's still hasn't aired on the West coast... I don't want to drop any spoilers.

Darth thanks you. I have a feeling he watches now.

845 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:30:16pm

re: #821 reine.de.tout

oooh!

Low blow.
Upding!

After all the death threats I've received from Rodan, it's the least I could do to pay the silly little man back.

846 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:30:16pm

re: #809 LudwigVanQuixote

Did I?

I was actually going to move on to old fashioned ropes, leather shackles or hardware?

Channeling Homer Simpson's voice...
Mmmm hardware!

847 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:30:23pm

re: #832 Walter L. Newton

Yes, it's snowing, but it's actually light, not as heavy as first expected, but it's also possible it hasn't really started big time yet... this storm has been slow in moving in, it may or may not dump as much as expected... the heaviest may stay a bit north of Denver... we'll see.

we want your Sangre de Cristo snow....c'mon, do it!

848 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:30:44pm

re: #788 Linden Arden

The Fed is audited every year by Deloitte and Touche.

Congress wants to referee Open Market decisions = disaster in the making.,

Spot on. Let's meddle with the thing that has brought us wealth and prosperity unknown to humans thought their history? Nope!

849 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:30:45pm

re: #840 Locker

All that other stuff was bullshit but you "believe" that he was a lib? Talk about environmentalists blowing up the oil rig.

Yeah you're right. Dude was a Moby Tea Bagger for sure.

/

850 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:30:55pm

re: #829 albusteve

ever consider using your own fleshy hardware? or do you need accessories?...hahaha!...don't reply please

Actually, if you are large enough and strong enough to make it convincing, some submissives prefer the feeling of strong hands over any other form of restraint.

But these comments are to make the stalkers heads explode... not yours.

851 bratwurst  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:31:05pm

re: #830 Spare O'Lake

Hi stupid.

So you are just not going to defend your original post at all. Got it. Please carry on with your insults.

852 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:31:59pm

re: #840 Locker

All that other stuff was bullshit but you "believe" that he was a lib? Talk about environmentalists blowing up the oil rig.

Where Racer X sees libs, I see people whose nicks end with an "x".

853 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:32:00pm

re: #837 Alouette

*gasp*

You mean he really doesn't have millions of dollars, a house in Malibu and married to a Brazilian supermodel?

I'm just *shocked*

Lol, well yes...

That was BS,

no I mean I think his purpose here was to scam people into his "clientèle."

854 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:32:22pm

re: #847 albusteve

we want your Sangre de Cristo snow...c'mon, do it!

So far, it looks like the real dumper will stay north of I70... since you know where I am, that puts me about 25 miles south of I70... but we still may get 8 inches (instead of the 2 feet).

855 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:32:32pm

re: #831 Locker

Stop saying WE you fucking Canadian!

Fine. You sneeze and WE catch a cold.

Would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those damn kids and their mangy dog....

856 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:32:51pm

re: #799 Nimed

Oh, come on. Goldilocks. "Just right". Search those childhood memories.

Sorry man, I'm thick, I don't get how that applies unless you are saying Agnostics claim that thing came out "just right" for no reason.

Well, my personal agnosticism tells me that I have no idea if things are "just right" or how the hell things got here, how THIS all works and wtf I'm supposed to be doing, if anything.

I have no idea what is going to happen when I die and I have no idea what's going to happen 2 seconds from now. I would not be shocked at all if a jet engine fell through my roof onto my bed while I was out back staring at a large rabbit.

857 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:33:31pm

re: #839 lostlakehiker

There needs to be a functional government, of any kind, before what you describe can happen. I wish for it to, but do not see it in the near future.
I hope that I am very wrong.

858 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:33:32pm

re: #843 McSpiff

I think he tried to rush the scam in the end. We saw the whole thing play out in fast-forward while his poorly crafted persona crumbled. He went from posting on his blog "Hey, I'm just figuring this stuff out too!" to "I'm a wildly successful multi-millionaire with a sexy wife!" literally in hours. I suspect he planned on making that metamorphoses over months or even years. I was a little surprised to see his blog still online today. Wonder if it'll see any updates, or if he'll just copy and paste it to a new domain and continue there.

Certainly he will. Unless he has a sucker.

859 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:33:51pm

re: #805 LudwigVanQuixote

Because people lash out when they feel threatened. Then they feel vindicated by being told how right they were. It is much less complicated than you are making it.

Ok Mr Simple get that pony tail working and come up with a goddamn vaccine or something.

860 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:33:52pm
World's poshest prison? Cells with en-suite bathrooms and no window bars

It's the ultimate prison break for murderers and rapists - en-suite bathrooms, £1million Banksy-style art and even windows without bars.

That's the 'hard-time' waiting for some of Norway's most dangerous criminals in the new purpose built £15 million Halden Prison.

The jail took 10 years to build and has been touted to be the most humane in the world for its 252 inmates.

They are mean and nasty and evil because they were just not coddled enough!

861 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:33:59pm

re: #850 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, if you are large enough and strong enough to make it convincing, some submissives prefer the feeling of strong hands over any other form of restraint.

But these comments are to make the stalkers heads explode... not yours.

me thinks it's your head about to explode

862 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:34:07pm

re: #725 Locker

You've made me think a bit and I have a question. This is going to be a bit of a challenge to put into words but let's give it a shot. I'm sure you are aware that I think of you as an intelligent, rational and thoughtful person.

Additionally, as a religious person, I find that you do not seem to cross the line where a person attempts to project their personal religious beliefs onto everyone, everything and every situation they encounter.

Why is that line crossed? Is it "evangelism"? Is it narcissism? Is it a faith based reality bubble?

Either way these line crossers don't seem to accept and support the fact that each person is entitled to their own reality. That baffles me and I'm wondering if you have any insight?

I think it's a simpler thing that that. It's easy to just believe things. For people who are completely faith-based, they just believe that things happen because they do - because it's God's will and there's not much you can do about it. It's a level of surrender that I sometimes wish I was capable of. Thinking is really hard work.

It's the same mental shortcut as conspiracy theories - it's too frightening to believe that bad things _just happen_ for no reason and with no justice. It's much more comforting to believe that something that you know and understand (like the government) is behind it and has motives. Looking beyond that requires asking the difficult questions, and also accepting that life is a risk and a gamble and even if you're smart, or talented or determined or a really good person, something awful can happen just because.

863 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:34:32pm

re: #839 lostlakehiker

Would we? Somalia is a failed state because everybody thinks that way, not the other way around. Her coasts are near enough to wealthier nations that if she had some law and order, the resort and tourist trade would bring more income than piracy does now.

We can maybe go on as we do now, steering around the problem zone. Unfortunately, it extends now more than halfway to India. For now, one feasible policy is to avoid sending U.S.-flagged ships into pirate waters unless they're well enough armed or fast enough they have nothing to fear.

The other answer to piracy is to arm the merchant ships, put Q ships in the mix to ambush and sink pirates that fall for the bait if they will not surrender, and generally meet force with superior force. If we go that route, it will be a hard path and we will have to expect that many of our own sailors and travelers will be killed.

Captured pirates should be held until such time as piracy has more or less died out in Somalia. But it will take great determination to hold prisoners, because the first few times we take prisoners, other pirates will take some of our people prisoner, demand we release ours, and then kill theirs when we don't release ours. We don't work like Russia; we won't kill everybody whose release was requested. We don't work like Russia, we won't kill all the pirates we encounter out of hand.

We might send some RPV's and PGM's to visit the warlords who kill our hostages. But that will be a tough call because those guys know the game and they will never be separated from their human shields, other mens' wives and other mens' children.

It will take the Somalis a good long time to figure out that we mean business and that the only way they'll win the release of the guys we're holding is by quitting piracy.

I think this is an excellent post.

864 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:34:33pm

re: #808 Walter L. Newton

What rapture? Where is there a rapture in the Hebrew or Greek texts?

That is the point, there isn't any!

Well unless you cherry pick a verse here and there from five different books of the bible and then twist them together to mean something completely different from what they meant in the context where they were found. Under those rules you make the bible mean or say just about anything you want it to though, can't you? (and they do that too, don't they?)

865 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:34:42pm

re: #856 Locker


Did you hear about the dislexic, agnostic insomniac? He stayed up all night wondering if there really is a dog.

866 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:34:48pm

re: #852 Nimed

Where Racer X sees libs, I see people whose nicks end with an "x".

Heh.

At least my trophy wife is real.

867 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:35:07pm

re: #861 albusteve

me thinks it's your head about to explode

Attempt 12?

868 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:35:22pm

re: #833 NJDhockeyfan

I found the video of the attack.


[Video]Allah Akbar!

The next time one of these cartoonist speak, the guards should be issued shotguns who first several rounds should be less-lethal ammo. If Islamists decide to cheer on a wanna-be jihadi who attacks, then they should be subjected to some rubber riot shot. That might convince the next batch o Islamists that starting a mini-riot isn't fun.

869 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:36:08pm

re: #865 Casual Talker

Did you hear about the dislexic, agnostic insomniac? He stayed up all night wondering if there really is a dog.

Only updinged because that joke was found on a cave painting and your paleo- anthropological skills should be lauded.

870 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:36:23pm

re: #865 Casual Talker

Did you hear about the dislexic, agnostic insomniac? He stayed up all night wondering if there really is a dog.

Stealing that.

871 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:37:07pm

re: #856 Locker

Sorry man, I'm thick, I don't get how that applies unless you are saying Agnostics claim that thing came out "just right" for no reason.

Well, my personal agnosticism tells me that I have no idea if things are "just right" or how the hell things got here, how THIS all works and wtf I'm supposed to be doing, if anything.

I have no idea what is going to happen when I die and I have no idea what's going to happen 2 seconds from now. I would not be shocked at all if a jet engine fell through my roof onto my bed while I was out back staring at a large rabbit.

Top ten signs an internet poster is high as a kite...
...

#8 Thinks they're staring in Donnie Darko.

#7

...

//
Much love. Lettermen isn't funny anyways.

872 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:37:48pm

re: #870 Cannadian Club Akbar

Stealing that.

Consider it google theft. All yours my friend.

873 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:37:49pm

re: #851 bratwurst

So you are just not going to defend your original post at all. Got it. Please carry on with your insults.

obsessive stalking from thread to thread is bad style...but if you want to be a poodle, no body will stop you....some things are just out of your reach and to pursue them will bring nothing but frustration

874 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:38:32pm

re: #850 LudwigVanQuixote

Not posting that thought.
NO. Not going to say that in public.
NO.

875 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:39:00pm

re: #838 Walter L. Newton

No report, it's still hasn't aired on the West coast... I don't want to drop any spoilers.

Gratitude, sir. You have my gratitude.

876 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:39:08pm

re: #873 albusteve

My first dog was a poodle. I still miss him badly. Hopefully you don't kick poodles.

877 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:39:14pm

re: #846 Floral Giraffe

Channeling Homer Simpson's voice...
Mmmm hardware!

Seeing as you liked #850, in real life, I am large enough to be capable of being convincing...

Hardware or hands?

878 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:39:22pm

re: #774 LudwigVanQuixote

Hand, paddle, crop or strap? ;)

yes please?

879 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:39:22pm

re: #861 albusteve

me thinks it's your head about to explode

Ah leave him alone, the poor guy's got a pony tail.

880 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:39:33pm

re: #875 Slumbering Behemoth

Gratitude, sir. You have my gratitude.

IT WAS ALL A DREAM.

881 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:40:02pm

Cool quote I read last night.

Alfred North Whitehead:

"The Bibles excels in its suggestions of infinitude. Here we are with our finite being and physical sense in the presence of a universe whose possibilities are infinite. And even though we may not apprehend them, those infinite possibilities are actualities. Don't reject anything. The Bible interpreters unfortunately have scaled and whittled down the sense of infinitude into finite and limited concepts."

I was going to post that earlier, but I was feeling too lazy for that much typing.

882 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:40:07pm

Care to guess how much time you do for threatening the life of the President?
8 Years.
Longer than I would have guessed.

883 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:40:08pm

re: #867 LudwigVanQuixote

Attempt 12?

am I supposed to be flattered because you count posts?....12 or 20 hahaha!

884 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:40:25pm

re: #874 Floral Giraffe

Not posting that thought.
NO. Not going to say that in public.
NO.

Ohh missed that post ignore my last post... Just trying to 'splode heads.

885 What, me worry?  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:40:25pm

re: #856 Locker

Sorry man, I'm thick, I don't get how that applies unless you are saying Agnostics claim that thing came out "just right" for no reason.

Well, my personal agnosticism tells me that I have no idea if things are "just right" or how the hell things got here, how THIS all works and wtf I'm supposed to be doing, if anything.

I have no idea what is going to happen when I die and I have no idea what's going to happen 2 seconds from now. I would not be shocked at all if a jet engine fell through my roof onto my bed while I was out back staring at a large rabbit.

It's really from a sense of religious duty, to proselytize. Wrapped up in an image of the afterlife, Jesus as the only salvation and a goodly amount of self-righteousness.

Jews don't evangelize outside the faith. We also don't focus a whole lot on the afterlife. It's about what you do and how you act while you're here. Chabad (Lubavitchers) are our "evangelists". They do a lot of work trying to get less religious Jews more interested in Judaism.

886 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:40:45pm

re: #838 Walter L. Newton

No report, it's still hasn't aired on the West coast... I don't want to drop any spoilers.

I'm chomping at the bit, but am too well trained to drop any spoilers.

One question for you: In the opening moments of the first scene, was it obvious to you as well what was going to occur?

887 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:40:50pm

re: #878 ~Fianna

yes please?

I love this blog!

888 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:41:07pm

re: #883 albusteve

You'll really love me. I can tell you how many capital letters you've used ;-)

889 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:41:27pm

re: #880 Walter L. Newton

IT WAS ALL A DREAM.

It was the sled.

He's Luke's father.

Voldemort dies but Malfoy lives.

890 Renaissance_Man  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:41:29pm

re: #874 Floral Giraffe

Not posting that thought.
NO. Not going to say that in public.
NO.

This is the internet. Untold numbers of men who are at keyboards instead of in bed with women will now be waiting for a self-admitted woman on their forum to articulate her thoughts on large hands and restraints.

891 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:41:39pm

re: #869 LudwigVanQuixote

Only updinged because that joke was found on a cave painting and your paleo- anthropological skills should be lauded.

That joke was old when the Dead Sea was sick.

892 webevintage  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:42:07pm

re: #889 EmmmieG

It was the sled.

He's Luke's father.

Voldemort dies but Malfoy lives.

Soylent Green is people.
It's PEOPLE!!!!!!

893 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:42:10pm

R&B + Bluegrass + The Horror Express = one pleasantly odd WIN!

894 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:42:40pm

re: #889 EmmmieG

It was the sled.

He's Luke's father.

Voldemort dies but Malfoy lives.

I'm cancelling my Netflix account now.

895 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:42:40pm

Dude!

Check out the prices of this stuff. They sure did not have those machines at my high school.

Image: NFKnK.jpg

896 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:43:12pm

re: #880 Walter L. Newton

IT WAS ALL A DREAM.

AAARGHH!!!

(that would probably make the authors of Lost more hated than a Goldman Sachs shark)

897 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:43:19pm

re: #880 Walter L. Newton

IT WAS ALL A DREAM.

If they pull that crap, I'm never watching television again.
/Unless the Sharks are playing.

898 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:43:30pm

re: #886 Bagua

I'm chomping at the bit, but am too well trained to drop any spoilers.

One question for you: In the opening moments of the first scene, was it obvious to you as well what was going to occur?

If you meant the conclusion of the first scene, no. If you meant in general what happened up to the conclusion of the first scene, yes. But the very ending of the first scene was a bit of surprise.

899 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:43:51pm

re: #889 EmmmieG

It was the sled.

He's Luke's father.

Voldemort dies but Malfoy lives.

Bruce Willis was dead the whole time!

900 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:44:16pm

re: #896 Nimed

re: #897 Slumbering Behemoth

Evidently, I was joking...

901 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:44:43pm

re: #876 Casual Talker

My first dog was a poodle. I still miss him badly. Hopefully you don't kick poodles.

no I don't kick poodles...there are two standards across the road that greet me when I come and go...one is cinnamon and her twin is black...I call them the Sisters...lovable dogs that really enjoy it when I go over and pet them and talk to them over the wall....different sort of poodle entirely

902 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:45:01pm

re: #899 Alouette

Bruce Willis was dead the whole time!

The last movie to blow me away.

903 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:45:13pm

re: #900 Walter L. Newton

So was I. Less evident, apparently.

904 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:45:28pm

Guys... OK you should know I have like a super deal! I'm a professional and all sorts of people read everything I write!

If you want to get rich listen to my advice!

You can have a super trophy wife, pay for any plastic surgery she wants, live in as many mansions you want! I'm telling you, but you have to take my financial advice!


Don't go into physics...

905 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:45:41pm

re: #869 LudwigVanQuixote

Only updinged because that joke was found on a cave painting and your paleo- anthropological skills should be lauded.

Who says I didn't paint it?

906 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:45:55pm

re: #796 Locker

Fair enough so let's go one level deeper. What keeps them there? Is that sort of behavior so self perpetuating that they are completely incapable of growth? Is it really that big of a leap from "hey if I force my shit on to them then that could happen to me"?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass I just don't understand why it's so... rampant.

Because their leaders teach them every Sunday that it is the way to frigging heaven. I am not kidding, you should go to my moms "mega-church" for just one Sunday, you'd walk out asking yourself "what the F**K does anything he said have to do with anything Jesus said in the bible?"

The 'modern' American evangelical church has less to do with Jesus all the time, they have bands, fiery sermons against progressives, light shows, choirs with hundreds of people singing adapted rock and roll lyrics, you will have a good time there and be entertained. It isn't like church when I was a kid where you could fall asleep during the sermon.

The only problem that they never teach the actual scripture either, it is all just a kinda tame concert with no mosh pit. The younger people have about as much knowledge of the actual scripture as their toddler children do, which is to say none. Anything the pastor says is accepted as scriptural even when it isn't because they just don't know any better.

It is really effing sad... :(

907 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:46:05pm

re: #874 Floral Giraffe

Not posting that thought.
NO. Not going to say that in public.
NO.

Not even if you were commanded to post it?

908 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:46:12pm

re: #889 EmmmieG

It was the sled.

He's Luke's father.

Voldemort dies but Malfoy lives.

42! Tyler Durden is not real! They all stabbed him once! Sean Penn was just fooling around with Michael Douglas!

909 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:46:26pm

re: #899 Alouette

Bruce Willis was dead the whole time!

I never saw that coming, really. But I never see those things coming, that's why I enjoy most movies... I just go with the flow... LOST, since it is a episodic 6 year long movie, has afforded me the pleasure of trying to "figure out" where the plot arcs takes us, but in general, in a good book or a good two hour movie, I never see the "twists" coming.

910 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:46:39pm

Cooper suffers "We've Got Mail!":

Anderson Cooper Sees A Surge In Birther Hate Mail Since His Attacks On The Movement

Outside of his almost universally acclaimed reporting from disaster areas and war zones, recently Anderson Cooper has found another niche for his typically non-partisan but still confrontational style: dismantling the birther movement. Last night, he admitted he’s starting to pay the price for repeatedly attacking the birthers in the currency of “vitriolic emails,” which have increased since his coverage intensified.

911 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:46:42pm

re: #879 Spare O'Lake

Ah leave him alone, the poor guy's got a pony tail.

pony tail?...wow, a real progressive hair guy!...I had a pony tail 2 feet down my back years ago

912 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:46:43pm

re: #901 albusteve

Neighbor has a labra-doodle. Smart dog, but not all that bright if that makes any sense...

913 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:46:46pm

re: #902 Cannadian Club Akbar

Tell me you're joking.

914 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:47:24pm

re: #901 albusteve

no I don't kick poodles...there are two standards across the road that greet me when I come and go...one is cinnamon and her twin is black...I call them the Sisters...lovable dogs that really enjoy it when I go over and pet them and talk to them over the wall...different sort of poodle entirely

I grew up with a silver. They are really intelligent dogs. Perhaps the use of the word was as an insult, but it could have an unintended effect for those of us familiar poodles. Just a sugg.

915 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:47:27pm

re: #894 Casual Talker

I'm cancelling my Netflix account now.

My daughter finished HP #7 by noon the day it came out. She was under a death threat, I mean a serious one, to keep the story to herself. I was going to KEEL her if she wrecked it for me. (We were on vacation, and she can read in the car and I can't.)

Then, after I finished it, my father had me tell him the whole story (he doesn't read). He realized he was missing so much of the books that he went out and bought all 7 books on CD (not kidding, he doesn't read).

For a few months, we drove my mother nuts with analysis.

916 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:47:30pm

re: #899 Alouette

Bruce Willis was dead the whole time!

I saw the movie twice, and I still don't believe it.

917 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:47:36pm

re: #889 EmmmieG

It was the sled.

He's Luke's father.

Voldemort dies but Malfoy lives.

Malfoy not only lives... he's now on a beach earning 20%.

918 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:47:55pm

re: #913 Slumbering Behemoth

Tell me you're joking.

Nope. Taking writing classes ruined movies.

919 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:47:57pm

re: #904 LudwigVanQuixote


If you want to get rich listen to my advice!
...
Don't go into physics...

Anyone should know the one sure way to "get rich"...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
BUY GOLD!!

920 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:48:03pm

re: #877 LudwigVanQuixote

Seeing as you liked #850, in real life, I am large enough to be capable of being convincing...

Hardware or hands?

Mmm, yes.

921 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:48:08pm

re: #911 albusteve

pony tail?...wow, a real progressive hair guy!...I had a pony tail 2 feet down my back years ago

Yeah, but mine is sexy.

922 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:48:32pm

re: #920 Floral Giraffe

Mmm, yes.

I love this blog.

*smack*

923 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:48:39pm

re: #900 Walter L. Newton

re: #897 Slumbering Behemoth

Evidently, I was joking...

She's a dude.

924 Jadespring  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:48:43pm

Evening all.

The other day I asked about courses or online sites to learn Spanish.

Just thought I'd share a neat site I found. [Link: www.busuu.com...]

It's a world wide site that teaches many languages. The cool thing is that there's hundreds other people on it learning and they help you with their language and you help them with yours. It even is set up so you can chat directly to a native speaker if you want. So far I've had people from Bogata, Mexico, Brazil and Costa Rica correct my writing exercises and have helped people from all over the world with their English.

It's neat and super easy to use.

925 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:49:18pm

re: #843 McSpiff

I think he tried to rush the scam in the end. We saw the whole thing play out in fast-forward while his poorly crafted persona crumbled. He went from posting on his blog "Hey, I'm just figuring this stuff out too!" to "I'm a wildly successful multi-millionaire with a sexy wife!" literally in hours. I suspect he planned on making that metamorphoses over months or even years. I was a little surprised to see his blog still online today. Wonder if it'll see any updates, or if he'll just copy and paste it to a new domain and continue there.

Yep, he got panicked, blew up and showed his cards too soon. A busted flush.

When looking at the markets in general, it is important to keep in mind who is making money, almost exclusively professionals. And note that is not restricted to successful professional traders, the vast majority of professionals are advisors and brokers who get paid whether their retail clients make or lose money.

926 bratwurst  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:49:27pm

re: #873 albusteve

obsessive stalking from thread to thread is bad style...but if you want to be a poodle, no body will stop you...some things are just out of your reach and to pursue them will bring nothing but frustration

Thanks boss...glad you are back to lend me guidance. Here is a link to a Stones concert from 1973 as a token of my appreciation. Free sign-up to listen if you (or anyone else) is not already familiar with Wolfgang's Vault:

[Link: www.wolfgangsvault.com...]

927 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:49:46pm

re: #888 McSpiff

You'll really love me. I can tell you how many capital letters you've used ;-)

you're cool, I have no beef with you...but Lud would be a miserable date, counting this and that...checking his chains and crops

928 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:50:01pm

Saw the headlined political add floating around the internet and figured it would be featured here. What utter ignorance from the anti-evolutionists. Late to the thread, but any interesting blowups

929 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:50:27pm

re: #890 Renaissance_Man

This is the internet. Untold numbers of men who are at keyboards instead of in bed with women will now be waiting for a self-admitted woman on their forum to articulate her thoughts on large hands and restraints.

See #920 and weep.

930 reidr  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:51:14pm

re: #146 Decatur Deb

They "closed the book" of the old Shakers in upstate NY a few yrs ago. They had some young followers who are not part of the communion.

Western Mass, too:

Hancock Shaker Village

I may be a New Mexican now, but I grew up in those parts.

931 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:51:22pm

Anyone want to speculate on this one?
Koch Industries distances itself from tea parties

The big money behind the Birch Society revival is, at least publicly, backing off from the Tea Parties. What makes it more curious is this obfuscation from the Frum Forum.....
The Left’s Billion Dollar Tea Party Lie

The Koch brand is regularly assailed for funding all that liberals view as repugnant. Indeed, Charles and David Koch are the left’s equivalent of George Soros – the figure that progressives love to hate. But digging deeper, one finds the Koch Foundations trying to distance themselves from Tea Partiers and modernizing to build a more governance-minded form of conservatism.

What really sets off my BS detector is there's no mention of the Birch Society in the Frum article. It would seem something that a moderate and sane conservative site would ask about.

Something's going on. Not sure what.

932 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:51:52pm

re: #918 Cannadian Club Akbar

I asked a buddy of mine to go see that movie with me. About halfway through, he turns to me and asks "Dude. Are you gay?'

I say "What? No. Why?"

He says "This is a chic-flick, dude. You asked me to come with you to a chic-flick".

933 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:51:56pm

re: #910 freetoken

Cooper suffers "We've Got Fail!":

Anderson Cooper Sees A Surge In Birther Hate Mail Since His Attacks On The Movement

Slightly altered.

934 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:52:00pm

re: #907 Reginald Perrin

No, but you might get it out of me, if you really tried!

935 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:52:16pm

re: #899 Alouette

Bruce Willis was dead the whole time!

I recently saw Fight Club for the first time. It caught me off guard. Much better than I thought it would be.

936 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:52:38pm

re: #924 Jadespring

Evening all.

The other day I asked about courses or online sites to learn Spanish.

Just thought I'd share a neat site I found. [Link: www.busuu.com...]

It's a world wide site that teaches many languages. The cool thing is that there's hundreds other people on it learning and they help you with their language and you help them with yours. It even is set up so you can chat directly to a native speaker if you want. So far I've had people from Bogata, Mexico, Brazil and Costa Rica correct my writing exercises and have helped people from all over the world with their English.

It's neat and super easy to use.

Sounds like an interesting concept. Took a look at the site--under "the latest learning units" one finds the topic "Underwear and accessories". Hmmm, guess that's still part of learning the language :)

937 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:52:38pm

re: #929 Floral Giraffe

See #920 and weep.

What really entertains me is that all the people who are not vanilla know it.

938 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:52:40pm

G'nite lizards. Sleep tight!

939 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:52:44pm

Dover sole is a damn nice fish.
/just sayin'

940 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:52:47pm

re: #932 Slumbering Behemoth

I asked a buddy of mine to go see that movie with me. About halfway through, he turns to me and asks "Dude. Are you gay?'

I say "What? No. Why?"

He says "This is a chic-flick, dude. You asked me to come with you to a chic-flick".

I love chick flicks.

941 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:53:20pm

re: #907 Reginald Perrin

Not even if you were commanded to post it?

IT would be very cool to hear the tale.

942 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:53:20pm

re: #898 Walter L. Newton

If you meant the conclusion of the first scene, no. If you meant in general what happened up to the conclusion of the first scene, yes. But the very ending of the first scene was a bit of surprise.

I mean in general, but the conclusion was no surprise as it fit so well with other episodes.

943 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:53:56pm

Ron Paul is pissed so I feel a little bit better...
Ron Paul slams Audit the Fed vote

944 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:54:03pm

re: #939 Killgore Trout

Dover sole is a damn nice fish.
/just sayin'

I loves my flatfish, though halibut may be at the top of my list. Nothing like a good sole meuniere though.

945 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:54:55pm

re: #914 Casual Talker

I grew up with a silver. They are really intelligent dogs. Perhaps the use of the word was as an insult, but it could have an unintended effect for those of us familiar poodles. Just a sugg.

a net poodle is a person that won't let some trivial matter go...following, nipping...a pest more or less...I just made that up, not to diss dog poodles

946 Lidane  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:55:01pm

re: #906 ausador

Not only that, but a lot of these mega-churches are drawing influence from the more popular televangelists and book authors, like Joel Osteen. They end up preaching more about how faith in God is good because of the personal and material rewards you gain from it than it is for its own sake.

If you just believe hard enough, they say, God will get you that promotion at work, and that raise that you're long overdue for. He'll get you that perfect house you've always wanted, find you the perfect spouse, and bump you from coach to First Class because you're in his favor.

In the end, not only do you get people who call themselves Christian that don't know their own Scripture, but they *also* believe in things that actually contradict Christ's words, such as the Prosperity Gospel. It's just really sad all the way around.

947 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:55:19pm

re: #934 Floral Giraffe

No, but you might get it out of me, if you really tried!

And I an going to bet asking nicely isn't the way to go.


*wink*

948 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:56:09pm

re: #945 albusteve

a net poodle is a person that won't let some trivial matter go...following, nipping...a pest more or less...I just made that up, not to diss dog poodles

Didn't think you were ripping on the fine breed of poodles, but it's nice that you clarified. Thank you there.

949 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:56:18pm

re: #925 Bagua

Yep, he got panicked, blew up and showed his cards too soon. A busted flush.

When looking at the markets in general, it is important to keep in mind who is making money, almost exclusively professionals. And note that is not restricted to successful professional traders, the vast majority of professionals are advisors and brokers who get paid whether their retail clients make or lose money.

Exactly. I've known a few traders, advisers and brokers. I'm also in a professional degree program. Giving unsolicited, free advice is not something a professional generally does. Creates way too many legal hazards. And when they do, its given with about a million disclosures ala "mad money". Sigma was not a professional or an entertainer.

950 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:56:28pm

re: #939 Killgore Trout

Dover sole is a damn nice fish.
/just sayin'

Pan fried? Yummy!

951 webevintage  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:57:03pm

I will be so glad when the primaries are over with on Tuesday.
I am sick to death of political TV ads....

952 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:57:05pm

re: #944 Casual Talker

I loves my flatfish, though halibut may be at the top of my list. Nothing like a good sole meuniere though.

from an environmental perspective, flat fish are a responsible consumer choice, too. The lower down on the food chain a fish is, the better it is from a sustainable ocean perspective.

953 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:57:23pm

re: #950 Floral Giraffe

Pan fried? Yummy!

With a Lemon/Wine sauce and scallions.

954 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:57:25pm

re: #725 Locker

You've made me think a bit and I have a question. This is going to be a bit of a challenge to put into words but let's give it a shot. I'm sure you are aware that I think of you as an intelligent, rational and thoughtful person.

Additionally, as a religious person, I find that you do not seem to cross the line where a person attempts to project their personal religious beliefs onto everyone, everything and every situation they encounter.

Why is that line crossed? Is it "evangelism"? Is it narcissism? Is it a faith based reality bubble?

Either way these line crossers don't seem to accept and support the fact that each person is entitled to their own reality. That baffles me and I'm wondering if you have any insight?

Sorry for the delay, my mom called.

I honestly can't tell you with any certainly. I was raised in an interfaith family, in a Jewish community at several different levels of observance, and in a very multicultural school and public setting. My assumption from an early age was that you had to be respectful of other ways of doing things, and that different people related to God in different ways, and had different beliefs about spiritual things.

Judaism in general, I think has long been an ethnic minority's faith, and we don't go looking for converts. It's still, at core, a tribal religion--people are welcomed in, but Judaism does not see Gentiles as lacking in something you need to be a good person, or even to have a good relationship with God.

My experience with people who 'overstep' is that they tend to not have the idea that various religious paths can be valid, and for the most part (trying not to be bigoted here), the oversteppers seem to come out of an evangelical Protestant tradition that does believe in a single path to salvation, and regards it as both an obligation and a kindness to try to get everyone on that path.

I think evangelism and a 'faith based reality bubble' come closest, but I really don't know.

955 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:57:26pm

re: #944 Casual Talker

I like good old humble Oregon Rockfish. It's considered a garbage fish and not even sold locally around here.

956 Locker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:57:30pm

Time to go frag some RTardz in TF2.

Peace.

957 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:57:31pm

re: #919 freetoken

Anyone should know the one sure way to "get rich"...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
BUY GOLD!!

it has worked for me...my goldage is worth five times what I paid for it....metal coins, not paper...why is this a joke of some sort?...do you own land?

958 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:58:15pm

re: #952 ~Fianna

from an environmental perspective, flat fish are a responsible consumer choice, too. The lower down on the food chain a fish is, the better it is from a sustainable ocean perspective.

I've never chosen them for that reason, but that's good to know. Thanks!

Does that mean I should eat more sea slugs?

959 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:58:25pm

On sure way to get rich
.
.
.
.
.
Spend less than you make, and live a long time.

960 Racer X  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:58:37pm

re: #957 albusteve

it has worked for me...my goldage is worth five times what I paid for it...metal coins, not paper...why is this a joke of some sort?...do you own land?

Difference is you probably bought it when the price was low.

961 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:58:38pm

re: #950 Floral Giraffe

Pan fried? Yummy!

Pan fried and served with shiitake pollenta. Yum!

962 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:59:03pm

re: #946 Lidane

If you just believe hard enough, they say, God will get you that promotion at work, and that raise that you're long overdue for. He'll get you that perfect house you've always wanted, find you the perfect spouse, and bump you from coach to First Class because you're in his favor.

The implication being that if you don't get those things, you're obviously not a good enough Christian in God's eyes.

963 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:59:11pm

re: #931 Killgore Trout

Anyone want to speculate on this one?
Koch Industries distances itself from tea parties

The big money behind the Birch Society revival is, at least publicly, backing off from the Tea Parties. What makes it more curious is this obfuscation from the Frum Forum...
The Left’s Billion Dollar Tea Party Lie

What really sets off my BS detector is there's no mention of the Birch Society in the Frum article. It would seem something that a moderate and sane conservative site would ask about.

Something's going on. Not sure what.

time to scrub maybe?

964 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:59:23pm

re: #941 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #907 Reginald Perrin

Not even if you were commanded to post it?

IT would be very cool to hear the tale.

I think Floral should be a good little pet and tell Us what she was thinking.

965 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:59:24pm

re: #958 Casual Talker

I've never chosen them for that reason, but that's good to know. Thanks!

Does that mean I should eat more sea slugs?

Sounds responsible to me!

966 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:59:41pm

re: #959 EmmmieG

On sure way to get rich
.
.
.
.
.
Spend less than you make, and live a long time.

Kind of like the SNL spoof on money management book. "Don't buy stuff you can't afford" was it's one line of content .

967 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:59:51pm

re: #690 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes Cato, it is because I am doing things that I am different than you on this.

Even from a Darwinistic standpoint, action beats inaction.

Actually as far as the planet goes, I think inaction beats action.

It's what I don't do that counts.

I don't fly all over the place. Since I'm poor, I barely drive. I can't afford to buy new stuff, so my consumption of packaging and products is very, very low. I'd wager that my "footprint" is smaller than most by virtue of the fact that my shoes are worn down to the heel. My dog and I together probably create less CO2 pollution than the average man of my age. About the only thing I could do to be less of a burden on the planet would be to kill myself.

Not planning on that.

968 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 8:59:56pm

re: #931 Killgore Trout

Anyone want to speculate on this one?
Koch Industries distances itself from tea parties

The big money behind the Birch Society revival is, at least publicly, backing off from the Tea Parties. What makes it more curious is this obfuscation from the Frum Forum...
The Left’s Billion Dollar Tea Party Lie

What really sets off my BS detector is there's no mention of the Birch Society in the Frum article. It would seem something that a moderate and sane conservative site would ask about.

Something's going on. Not sure what.

Frum doesn't want to poison the well. He wants to move conservatism away from the Tea Party, and then resume a leading role. By leaving out the JBS, he avoids tainting fellow conservatives too badly. This allows them to move back to sanity without being electorally damaged by Frum, as would happen if he associated them with the Birchers.

969 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:00:32pm

LOST time. Laters.

970 ~Fianna  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:01:11pm

bbl or tomorrow. dinner is calling.

971 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:01:13pm

re: #969 Slumbering Behemoth

LOST time. Laters.

Enjoy!

972 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:01:17pm

re: #934 Floral Giraffe

No, but you might get it out of me, if you really tried!

Floral, educate the masses. You had an interesting thought. And it would, if you are interested in continuing the game, make heads of various interesting people explode.

This is after all a *joke*

Is it the feeling of a firm hand entwined in your hair, putting you in position and the steady voice in your ear, or the waiting while bound, knowing that your fate is being decided that is more appealing?

973 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:01:39pm

re: #931 Killgore Trout

The author of the piece is Tim Mak, whose own bio on FF says:

Tim Mak is a reporter and columnist for FrumForum.com. Previously, Tim was a Koch Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. He has also been employed at the Fraser Institute and the Office of the Minister of Foreign Affairs in Canada.

974 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:01:48pm

re: #946 Lidane

Not only that, but a lot of these mega-churches are drawing influence from the more popular televangelists and book authors, like Joel Osteen. They end up preaching more about how faith in God is good because of the personal and material rewards you gain from it than it is for its own sake.

If you just believe hard enough, they say, God will get you that promotion at work, and that raise that you're long overdue for. He'll get you that perfect house you've always wanted, find you the perfect spouse, and bump you from coach to First Class because you're in his favor.

In the end, not only do you get people who call themselves Christian that don't know their own Scripture, but they *also* believe in things that actually contradict Christ's words, such as the Prosperity Gospel. It's just really sad all the way around.

get used to it...they will be the most powerful political force in this immediate future...perfect hair, toothy smile

975 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:02:44pm

re: #968 Dark_Falcon

Frum doesn't want to poison the well. He wants to move conservatism away from the Tea Party, and then resume a leading role. By leaving out the JBS, he avoids tainting fellow conservatives too badly. This allows them to move back to sanity without being electorally damaged by Frum, as would happen if he associated them with the Birchers.

Possible but it seems he's whitewashing the Koch Bros more that he's protecting the Tea Parties.

976 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:03:31pm

re: #973 freetoken

Tim Mak is a reporter and columnist for FrumForum.com. Previously, Tim was a

Koch Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. He has also been employed at the Fraser Institute and the Office of the Minister of Foreign Affairs in Canada.


Aha!. Nice catch. I think that explains it.

977 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:03:43pm

re: #808 Walter L. Newton

What rapture? Where is there a rapture in the Hebrew or Greek texts?

Walter, you're worse than my rabbi getting on my case about angels. And you don't even have a cute German accent.

978 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:04:03pm

re: #964 Reginald Perrin

I think Floral should be a good little pet and tell Us what she was thinking.

Or if she no longer thinks this is fun, we drop it.

979 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:04:44pm

re: #954 SanFranciscoZionist

Sorry for the delay, my mom called.

While you were, Walter spoiled the end of Lost for us. Basically, Jack wakes up in an apartment somewhere in Texas and finds Bobby Ewing in the shower.

980 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:04:45pm

re: #280 reine.de.tout

If you're hungry, buy Volume 2 of the LGF COOKBOOK!

Please! Proceeds are used to support LGF (and all the great things Charles provides for us) and Soldier's Angels.

We've sold 25 books, and with a mere $5 per book "profit", that ain't much to split between the two.

Only $16.35 for a great book with great art, Cato's poem featuring favorite lizards, SpaceJesus even appears in the ROFLMAO section, Killgore's Gardening section - wow. Such value!

wait what

981 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:06:52pm

re: #960 Racer X

Difference is you probably bought it when the price was low.

I've made money off of metals, jems, antiques, property...what's the big deal with gold? if it's supposed to be some derogatory slur, it's not working

982 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:06:52pm

re: #865 Casual Talker

Did you hear about the dislexic, agnostic insomniac? He stayed up all night wondering if there really is a dog.

I feel sure of dog's existence.

983 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:07:00pm

The Stalkers are on a "insult Charles and Ludwig with Haiku" kick, so here's a answer to that:

Bested by logic,
Snork must bow to science.
Ludwig won cleanly.

984 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:07:03pm

re: #952 ~Fianna

from an environmental perspective, flat fish are a responsible consumer choice, too. The lower down on the food chain a fish is, the better it is from a sustainable ocean perspective.

Excellent post.

985 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:07:28pm

re: #980 spacejesus

wait what

Guess you be funny.

986 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:07:38pm

re: #882 Rightwingconspirator

Care to guess how much time you do for threatening the life of the President?
8 Years.
Longer than I would have guessed.

Makes sure that you stay locked up the whole time he's in office.

987 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:07:40pm

re: #960 Racer X

Difference is you probably bought it when the price was low.

Isn't that the idea?

988 b_sharp  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:07:41pm

re: #804 Slumbering Behemoth

Fine, I'll do it myself :sigh: 9_9

Because only the Sith deal in Absolut.

/fizzle

I'm sorry, did you say something?

989 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:08:00pm

re: #943 Killgore Trout

Ron Paul is pissed so I feel a little bit better...
Ron Paul slams Audit the Fed vote

The Vitter amendment failed? Well yeah. I do not understand how Vitter has survived. That's my first take on the thing.

990 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:08:51pm

re: #985 Cannadian Club Akbar

Guess you be funny.

totally better find a royalties check in my space mail box tomorrow

991 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:09:55pm

re: #979 Nimed

While you were, Walter spoiled the end of Lost for us. Basically, Jack wakes up in an apartment somewhere in Texas and finds Bobby Ewing in the shower.

Yep, never saw that twist coming...

992 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:10:22pm

re: #904 LudwigVanQuixote

Guys... OK you should know I have like a super deal! I'm a professional and all sorts of people read everything I write!

If you want to get rich listen to my advice!

You can have a super trophy wife, pay for any plastic surgery she wants, live in as many mansions you want! I'm telling you, but you have to take my financial advice!

Don't go into physics...

Also, don't become a schoolteacher.

993 Lidane  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:10:36pm

re: #974 albusteve

get used to it...they will be the most powerful political force in this immediate future...perfect hair, toothy smile

Pfft. As if any of that shit is new. It's been prevalent for decades. Hell, Genesis mocked it back in 1991:

Youtube Video

The fact that that song is still relevant almost 20 years later says more about the state of evangelical Christianity than it does the song.

994 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:11:25pm

re: #986 SanFranciscoZionist

Good point.

995 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:11:50pm

re: #914 Casual Talker

I grew up with a silver. They are really intelligent dogs. Perhaps the use of the word was as an insult, but it could have an unintended effect for those of us familiar poodles. Just a sugg.

Poodles are ridiculously smart dogs. I used to run into a pair of black standards in the park when I walked my dog...I always felt afterward that I should thank them for playing with him. They're like people in dog suits.

996 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:11:55pm

re: #990 spacejesus

totally better find a royalties check in my space mail box tomorrow

Ha! SpaceJesus +1,165. I had faith I'd see this day.

997 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:12:19pm

re: #992 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, don't become a schoolteacher.

no!...my beloved mom was an elementary teacher for 40 years, and they still talk about her around the district

998 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:12:34pm

re: #979 Nimed

While you were, Walter spoiled the end of Lost for us. Basically, Jack wakes up in an apartment somewhere in Texas and finds Bobby Ewing in the shower.

SMACK!

999 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:13:01pm

re: #996 Bagua

Ha! SpaceJesus +1,165. I had faith I'd see this day.

that's a swing of about 3k

unban the stalkers, i miss being in the red

1000 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:13:31pm

re: #986 SanFranciscoZionist

Makes sure that you stay locked up the whole time he's in office.

That is a great point.

1001 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:14:24pm

re: #995 SanFranciscoZionist

Poodles are ridiculously smart dogs. I used to run into a pair of black standards in the park when I walked my dog...I always felt afterward that I should thank them for playing with him. They're like people in dog suits.

Add in some athleticism and I'm in complete agreement. Great post!

1002 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:14:26pm

re: #979 Nimed

While you were, Walter spoiled the end of Lost for us. Basically, Jack wakes up in an apartment somewhere in Texas and finds Bobby Ewing in the shower.

I was waiting for the Bobby Ewing reference.!

1003 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:14:41pm

re: #962 Slumbering Behemoth

The implication being that if you don't get those things, you're obviously not a good enough Christian in God's eyes.

The elect are prosperous...old Calvinist idea, now pushed to new limits.

1004 b_sharp  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:15:42pm

re: #883 albusteve

am I supposed to be flattered because you count posts?...12 or 20 hahaha!

I thought you had outgrown this crap.

1005 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:15:46pm

re: #980 spacejesus

wait what

Buy it.

1006 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:16:26pm

re: #977 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, you're worse than my rabbi getting on my case about angels. And you don't even have a cute German accent.

Ok... let me try to clarify (just for the sake of an exercise) what case I am trying to make. I say most people with a belief in G-d had that belief nurtured by another source, probably first off a mother and/or father, then maybe a religious figure (priest, minister, rabbi) and then at some point examining the concept for ones self and so on, the basic growth pattern of a person who believes.

And the foundational material that has informed you, your mother and/or father, the priest, minister and rabbi and informed most of your self examination is religious texts, in this case we are talking about the Hebrew and Greek texts.

You can't deny this. There are not many people who just stumbled on the concept of a g-d all on their own, oblivious to the form and structure of the "g-d nature" that is disclosed in the religious texts.

And it is at that point that science can be inserted into the concept, the science of archeology, the science of textual criticism, the science of linguistics and so on.

And it is these sciences that have proven with out a doubt, that these religious texts, the same texts that has informed a large percent of mankind about G-d, these texts have been scientifically proven to be flawed.

Now you can twist and spin and try to explain that the text has been corrupted by man, but I am sorry, that's the only guide book explaining G-d and it has been used as the foundation of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

A flawed foundation in the least.

1007 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:16:33pm

re: #981 albusteve

I've made money off of metals, jems, antiques, property...what's the big deal with gold? if it's supposed to be some derogatory slur, it's not working

It's funny because Beck is pushing it like a madman on Fox. This is not to say that no one ever turns a profit on gold.

How do you feel about hybrid seeds?

1008 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:17:16pm

re: #1002 Stanley Sea

I was waiting for the Bobby Ewing reference.!

Careful with that. We don't want to hype Ewing Oil. They've been financing Deniers, after all.

/It it was a real oil company, Ewing Oil would be screaming that AGW was a lie.

1009 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:18:31pm

re: #1004 b_sharp

I thought you had outgrown this crap.

crap seems to follow me around....others are keeping a count, not me

1010 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:18:34pm

re: #1006 Walter L. Newton

Ok... let me try to clarify (just for the sake of an exercise) what case I am trying to make. I say most people with a belief in G-d had that belief nurtured by another source, probably first off a mother and/or father, then maybe a religious figure (priest, minister, rabbi) and then at some point examining the concept for ones self and so on, the basic growth pattern of a person who believes.

And the foundational material that has informed you, your mother and/or father, the priest, minister and rabbi and informed most of your self examination is religious texts, in this case we are talking about the Hebrew and Greek texts.

You can't deny this. There are not many people who just stumbled on the concept of a g-d all on their own, oblivious to the form and structure of the "g-d nature" that is disclosed in the religious texts.

And it is at that point that science can be inserted into the concept, the science of archeology, the science of textual criticism, the science of linguistics and so on.

And it is these sciences that have proven with out a doubt, that these religious texts, the same texts that has informed a large percent of mankind about G-d, these texts have been scientifically proven to be flawed.

Now you can twist and spin and try to explain that the text has been corrupted by man, but I am sorry, that's the only guide book explaining G-d and it has been used as the foundation of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

A flawed foundation in the least.

Why would you try to undermine someone's faith on a message board? Honest question....

1011 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:19:20pm

re: #1010 Casual Talker

If a few words from Walter can undermine their faith, it wasn't much to begin with.

1012 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:19:27pm

In other LOST news from tonight's episode:

"The Smoke Monster has fallen in love with the BP oil slick."

Never say that coming.

1013 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:20:06pm

re: #1011 EmmmieG

If a few words from Walter can undermine their faith, it wasn't much to begin with.

True, but why try?

1014 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:20:31pm

re: #1008 Dark_Falcon

Careful with that. We don't want to hype Ewing Oil. They've been financing Deniers, after all.

/It it was a real oil company, Ewing Oil would be screaming that AGW was a lie.

Not only that, but if Ewing Oil was a real company, Rahm Emanuel would have found Bobby Ewing in a shower.

1015 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:20:33pm

re: #1006 Walter L. Newton

Ok... let me try to clarify (just for the sake of an exercise) what case I am trying to make. I say most people with a belief in G-d had that belief nurtured by another source, probably first off a mother and/or father, then maybe a religious figure (priest, minister, rabbi) and then at some point examining the concept for ones self and so on, the basic growth pattern of a person who believes.

And the foundational material that has informed you, your mother and/or father, the priest, minister and rabbi and informed most of your self examination is religious texts, in this case we are talking about the Hebrew and Greek texts.

You can't deny this. There are not many people who just stumbled on the concept of a g-d all on their own, oblivious to the form and structure of the "g-d nature" that is disclosed in the religious texts.

And it is at that point that science can be inserted into the concept, the science of archeology, the science of textual criticism, the science of linguistics and so on.

And it is these sciences that have proven with out a doubt, that these religious texts, the same texts that has informed a large percent of mankind about G-d, these texts have been scientifically proven to be flawed.

Now you can twist and spin and try to explain that the text has been corrupted by man, but I am sorry, that's the only guide book explaining G-d and it has been used as the foundation of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

A flawed foundation in the least.

Quoted for truth, favorited for future reference, well done!

1016 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:20:51pm

re: #1007 SanFranciscoZionist

It's funny because Beck is pushing it like a madman on Fox. This is not to say that no one ever turns a profit on gold.

How do you feel about hybrid seeds?

NO! If you try to trade them in post apocalyptic America, you will get sodomized by a radioactive mole man!

1017 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:21:24pm

re: #1010 Casual Talker

Why would you try to undermine someone's faith on a message board? Honest question...

Why do you confuse faith with facts? Faith stands along, doesn't it. You need holy texts to prove G-d's existence to/for yourself. You just proved my point.

How can I undermine faith... do you know "a" definition of faith.

1018 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:22:48pm

re: #1007 SanFranciscoZionist

It's funny because Beck is pushing it like a madman on Fox. This is not to say that no one ever turns a profit on gold.

How do you feel about hybrid seeds?

don't really know...Monsanto seems to dictate that area and one monster company in the feds pocket cannot be a good thing...OTOH specialized seeds are the wave of the future

1019 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:22:49pm

re: #1015 McSpiff

Quoted for truth, favorited for future reference, well done!

Thank you.

1020 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:23:18pm

re: #1013 Casual Talker

True, but why try?

I followed the thread back. The discussion was whether a current belief has foundation in the Bible or not.

Personally, I think more faith has been killed because it was built on nonsense that was touted as being biblical than by questions.

But that's just my opinion.

1021 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:23:39pm

re: #997 albusteve

no!...my beloved mom was an elementary teacher for 40 years, and they still talk about her around the district

I don't deny it's wonderful work. Just not a way to get rich.

1022 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:23:56pm

re: #1021 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't deny it's wonderful work. Just not a way to get rich.

...in money.

1023 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:24:09pm

re: #1014 Nimed

Not only that, but if Ewing Oil was a real company, Rahm Emanuel would have found Bobby Ewing in a shower.

I could do a lot with that bit of material, but I'm going to just leave it.

1024 Reginald Perrin  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:24:18pm

re: #999 spacejesus

that's a swing of about 3k

unban the stalkers, i miss being in the red

Didn't I warn you this would happen if you went on a mission from dog

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

1025 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:24:53pm

re: #1011 EmmmieG

If a few words from Walter can undermine their faith, it wasn't much to begin with.

indeed...Walter is a fair guy and does not interfere with other's faith

1026 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:25:01pm

I'm not stating my particular 'faith', sir .

I'm not sure that one needs holy texts as proof as you think, but all the same it's mystifying why you would take this route on a non-religious message board. I'm new so maybe I've not quite understood the gestalt here, in which case enlightenment would be appreciated.

1027 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:26:17pm

re: #1003 SanFranciscoZionist

The elect are prosperous...old Calvinist idea, now pushed to new limits.

Actually, it's different. Calvinism teaches that the elect are predestined. So if you're not prosperous, you might not be elect, but one way or another, it's none of your doing, but only the grace of God.

This concept seems to be that you can achieve not only salvation through faith, but also riches.

1028 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:26:27pm

re: #1026 Casual Talker

Walter knows more about religion than most of those who follow organized religion.

1029 b_sharp  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:27:14pm

re: #1026 Casual Talker

I'm not stating my particular 'faith', sir .

I'm not sure that one needs holy texts as proof as you think, but all the same it's mystifying why you would take this route on a non-religious message board. I'm new so maybe I've not quite understood the gestalt here, in which case enlightenment would be appreciated.

Bible literalists do need the text as proof, so much so they deny anything that disagrees with it.

1030 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:27:48pm

re: #1010 Casual Talker

Why would you try to undermine someone's faith on a message board? Honest question...

Honest question: Why do you think a response to a question amount to undermining?

And what is this bit about undermining?

1031 engineer cat  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:28:00pm

re: #1006 Walter L. Newton

i don't particularly disagree with you until you get to

these texts have been scientifically proven to be flawed

here you are attempting to use science to judge faith

1032 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:28:04pm

re: #1005 Stanley Sea

Buy it.

ok can i color in it

1033 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:29:00pm

re: #1021 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't deny it's wonderful work. Just not a way to get rich.

you are correct about that, but teaching, to her, was an almost spiritual endeavor...by mid summer she was restless to get back to school

1034 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:29:03pm

re: #1026 Casual Talker

I'm not stating my particular 'faith', sir .

I'm not sure that one needs holy texts as proof as you think, but all the same it's mystifying why you would take this route on a non-religious message board. I'm new so maybe I've not quite understood the gestalt here, in which case enlightenment would be appreciated.

Well, considering that almost everyone on LGF, at one time or another, talks about religion, even Ludwig, and since if you go back up thread, you will see there has been a lot of discussion about faith and religion tonight IN THIS THREAD, I suspect that one reason I would take the route of discussing G-d on this "non-religious" message board.

Did you see a single comment in the last 1000 or so comments on this thread... there has been a lot of religious talk going on tonight.

1035 jaunte  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:29:36pm

re: #1032 SpaceJesus

ok can i color in it

The cookbook is ideal for coloring in.

1036 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:29:49pm

re: #1030 Naso Tang

Honest question: Why do you think a response to a question amount to undermining?

And what is this bit about undermining?

Maybe I should back off. Based on the comments, I feel I should perhaps get a little more context. I think I may have not incorporated the original question into my thinking before responding the first time. Thanks for the tip.

1037 b_sharp  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:29:50pm

re: #1031 engineer dog

i don't particularly disagree with you until you get to

these texts have been scientifically proven to be flawed

here you are attempting to use science to judge faith

Not really, science is used to show a literal reading is nothing but faith.

1038 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:30:20pm

One of the downsides about being an atheist is that you're left with a very impoverished concept of Evil. No one's left to incarnate Evil. :(

1039 b_sharp  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:30:54pm

re: #1034 Walter L. Newton

Well, considering that almost everyone on LGF, at one time or another, talks about religion, even Ludwig, and since if you go back up thread, you will see there has been a lot of discussion about faith and religion tonight IN THIS THREAD, I suspect that one reason I would take the route of discussing G-d on this "non-religious" message board.

Did you see a single comment in the last 1000 or so comments on this thread... there has been a lot of religious talk going on tonight.

We tend to talk about whatever piques our interest.

1040 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:31:02pm

re: #1034 Walter L. Newton

Well, considering that almost everyone on LGF, at one time or another, talks about religion, even Ludwig, and since if you go back up thread, you will see there has been a lot of discussion about faith and religion tonight IN THIS THREAD, I suspect that one reason I would take the route of discussing G-d on this "non-religious" message board.

Did you see a single comment in the last 1000 or so comments on this thread... there has been a lot of religious talk going on tonight.

See comment 1036. I'm still new here and learning and going back in the thread. If I overstepped there was no harm intended.

1041 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:31:08pm

re: #1032 SpaceJesus

ok can i color in it

Yes, you can actually, Juante's drawings are ready for your pencils.

1042 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:31:21pm

re: #1035 jaunte

The cookbook is ideal for coloring in.

Yea, but can I clean the seeds out of my pot with the back cover?
///

1043 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:31:25pm

re: #1035 jaunte

The cookbook is ideal for coloring in.


i would like 57 of them.


does it have my recipe where i turn a pint of ten high and a taco into a gallon of scotch and a truck full of gorditas?

1044 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:31:50pm

re: #1007 SanFranciscoZionist

It's funny because Beck is pushing it like a madman on Fox. This is not to say that no one ever turns a profit on gold.

How do you feel about hybrid seeds?

What does hybrid seeds have to do with gold speculation?

Or is that a Glen Beck fantasy that I've missed?

1045 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:31:55pm

re: #1010 Casual Talker

Why would you try to undermine someone's faith on a message board? Honest question...

Why not? If someone sincerely believes that the faith is harmful, wouldn't it be a moral thing to do? You may agree convincing someone to leave a cult is an ok thing to do. The question you ask assumes ill intent, as if convincing someone to not have their faith is inherently a bad thing.

1046 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:32:02pm

re: #1031 engineer dog

i don't particularly disagree with you until you get to

these texts have been scientifically proven to be flawed

here you are attempting to use science to judge faith

I'm not attempting to use proven science to judge faith, but I am suggesting that if your faith grew out of the foundational material that has informed most believers, than I'm pointing out that you can't deny the flaw foundation that you used to build that faith.

I'm discussing the foundation. If your faith is such, my conversation doesn't hold anything of any weight for you, and I can't see why you would even be concerned?

1047 jaunte  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:32:22pm

re: #1043 SpaceJesus

If you buy 57, we'll devote a spread to it in #3.

1048 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:32:32pm

re: #1035 jaunte

The cookbook is ideal for coloring in.

oh man..I have not seen it yet...but I did see the graphics you did...h00t!
well done

1049 jaunte  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:33:26pm

re: #1048 albusteve

Thanks, it was a hoot to do.

1050 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:33:35pm

re: #1036 Casual Talker

Maybe I should back off. Based on the comments, I feel I should perhaps get a little more context. I think I may have not incorporated the original question into my thinking before responding the first time. Thanks for the tip.

Wasn't a tip, but you seem to an observant type. Hang in there.

1051 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:33:49pm

re: #1040 Casual Talker

See comment 1036. I'm still new here and learning and going back in the thread. If I overstepped there was no harm intended.

No, you didn't overstep anything, you were doing what everyone does here, comment, ask questions, inquire, and I was just given you some insight as to what goes on.

Most threads on LGF starts with a topic, and eventually it can branch off into multiple topics, all in the same thread.

That's the nature of blogs.

1052 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:33:52pm

re: #980 spacejesus

wait what

You should know everything!
But if you don't, you have to buy the cookbook.
Only $16.35, plus shipping which is less than $4.

1053 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:33:59pm

re: #1048 albusteve

oh man..I have not seen it yet...but I did see the graphics you did...h00t!
well done

Buy it.

1054 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:34:29pm

re: #1031 engineer dog

i don't particularly disagree with you until you get to

these texts have been scientifically proven to be flawed

here you are attempting to use science to judge faith

Why not use science to judge faith? It's the best method we have for investigation and discovering facts.

1055 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:34:49pm

re: #1038 Nimed

One of the downsides about being an atheist is that you're left with a very impoverished concept of Evil. No one's left to incarnate Evil. :(

what crap....are you insulting atheists?...evil is not bound to some faith

1056 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:34:51pm

re: #1046 Walter L. Newton

I'm not attempting to use proven science to judge faith, but I am suggesting that if your faith grew out of the foundational material that has informed most believers, than I'm pointing out that you can't deny the flaw foundation that you used to build that faith.

I'm discussing the foundation. If your faith is such, my conversation doesn't hold anything of any weight for you, and I can't see why you would even be concerned?

Ah, but what if you admit that the text has come down through many hands, and admit that flaws may have been introduced, intentionally or unintentionally?

Of course, this leaves us with the highly-unscientific holy spirit, which is why I will stop this line of thought now, because it lends to no proof or parsing.

1057 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:35:11pm

re: #1029 b_sharp

Bible literalists do need the text as proof, so much so they deny anything that disagrees with it.

Ah, but Walter isn't discussing 'Biblical literalists', he's taking out the Abrahamic faiths with one mighty swing.

1058 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:35:16pm

re: #1052 reine.de.tout

You should know everything!
But if you don't, you have to buy the cookbook.
Only $16.35, plus shipping which is less than $4.

Only $20? I'll get order mine tomorrow or Thursday.

1059 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:35:21pm

re: #1051 Walter L. Newton

No, you didn't overstep anything, you were doing what everyone does here, comment, ask questions, inquire, and I was just given you some insight as to what goes on.

Most threads on LGF starts with a topic, and eventually it can branch off into multiple topics, all in the same thread.

That's the nature of blogs.

Don't forget the puns.

1060 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:35:41pm

re: #1030 Naso Tang

Honest question: Why do you think a response to a question amount to undermining?

And what is this bit about undermining?

I didn't ask a question, BTW.

1061 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:35:52pm

re: #1054 BryanS

Why not use science to judge faith? It's the best method we have for investigation and discovering facts.

Because much of what faith requires cannot be verified by science. Science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, for example.

1062 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:36:27pm

re: #1033 albusteve

you are correct about that, but teaching, to her, was an almost spiritual endeavor...by mid summer she was restless to get back to school

I know teachers like that. Incredible to see in action.

1063 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:36:32pm

re: #1055 albusteve

what crap...are you insulting atheists?...evil is not bound to some faith

I was wondering about that. Evil is a word to describe a human condition, not necessarily based on faith, although that's probably where the word came from. ??

1064 b_sharp  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:36:47pm

re: #1054 BryanS

Why not use science to judge faith? It's the best method we have for investigation and discovering facts.

We can and do use science to investigate the basis for religion and religious belief, but science isn't really a method of judgment of quality for things like faith.

1065 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:37:08pm

re: #1059 EmmmieG

Don't forget the puns.

BOOB THREAD!! Wait, what?

1066 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:37:22pm

re: #1045 BryanS

Why not? If someone sincerely believes that the faith is harmful, wouldn't it be a moral thing to do? You may agree convincing someone to leave a cult is an ok thing to do. The question you ask assumes ill intent, as if convincing someone to not have their faith is inherently a bad thing.

I personally don't think anyones faith in G-d is harmful, at least not an unassuming faith that instills a morals sense of being.

And I have belonged to many cults where there are some members in which the cult is actually a positive experience for them.

So, I don't judge a persons faith at all, but I will, I can, lay out my ideas and tell you why I don't find a belief in G-d to be a valid position, if that's a subject at hand.

1067 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:37:23pm

haiku night at stalkerblog might be fun

1068 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:37:33pm

re: #1054 BryanS

Why not use science to judge faith? It's the best method we have for investigation and discovering facts.

Dangerous waters you tread in. Not that I want to tonight.

1069 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:37:39pm

re: #1055 albusteve

what crap...are you insulting atheists?...evil is not bound to some faith

Did you miss that episode of Dr. Who? Evil is bound to some rocks in the center of the earth which we stupid humans decide to mine.

1070 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:37:44pm

re: #1045 BryanS

Why not? If someone sincerely believes that the faith is harmful, wouldn't it be a moral thing to do? You may agree convincing someone to leave a cult is an ok thing to do. The question you ask assumes ill intent, as if convincing someone to not have their faith is inherently a bad thing.

You can make an argument based on reciprocity. Believers have your best interest in mind when they try to persuade you to join their religion. But you dislike being constantly evangelized. So you enter an implicit agreement with believers that you get off their back if they get off yours.

1071 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:37:55pm

re: #1051 Walter L. Newton

No, you didn't overstep anything, you were doing what everyone does here, comment, ask questions, inquire, and I was just given you some insight as to what goes on.

Most threads on LGF starts with a topic, and eventually it can branch off into multiple topics, all in the same thread.

That's the nature of blogs.

I appreciate your comment.

1072 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:38:09pm

re: #1007 SanFranciscoZionist

How do you feel about hybrid seeds?

I suppose now you'll claim never to have heard of the vast trading profits to be made in seeds both hybrid and and non-hybrid? Why else would it have it's own market venue? The NYSE (New York Seed Exchange)?


///too far?

1073 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:38:23pm

re: #1052 reine.de.tout

You should know everything!
But if you don't, you have to buy the cookbook.
Only $16.35, plus shipping which is less than $4.


ok i will buy it. it better come with crayons

1074 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:38:48pm

re: #1066 Walter L. Newton

Did you do EST?

1075 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:39:00pm

re: #1038 Nimed

One of the downsides about being an atheist is that you're left with a very impoverished concept of Evil. No one's left to incarnate Evil. :(

Are you saying that it takes a religion to really come up with Evil concepts? I guess I can buy that. /

1076 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:39:13pm

re: #1044 Naso Tang

What does hybrid seeds have to do with gold speculation?

Or is that a Glen Beck fantasy that I've missed?

One of Glenn Beck's advertisers is hocking NON-hybrid seeds. For when society falls apart. The website is surreal.

1077 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:39:36pm

re: #1055 albusteve

what crap...are you insulting atheists?...evil is not bound to some faith

I'm an atheist myself. But I do find belief in pure Evil, something that many religions have, much harder than when I was a Catholic.

1078 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:39:48pm

re: #1066 Walter L. Newton

I personally don't think anyones faith in G-d is harmful, at least not an unassuming faith that instills a morals sense of being.

And I have belonged to many cults where there are some members in which the cult is actually a positive experience for them.

So, I don't judge a persons faith at all, but I will, I can, lay out my ideas and tell you why I don't find a belief in G-d to be a valid position, if that's a subject at hand.

I judge this faith, just too much empirical statistics working against it:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Rabid RoP attacking Lars the Mohammed Cartoonist at a University.
Allahu Akbar indeed...

You'll need your youtube account since it's been flagged...shocka.

1079 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:39:56pm

re: #1057 SanFranciscoZionist

Ah, but Walter isn't discussing 'Biblical literalists', he's taking out the Abrahamic faiths with one mighty swing.

No I'm not. I'm taking out the foundational material that informs believers of that Abrahamic g-d. I can't take out your faith, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (hebrews 11:1)... only you can.

1080 b_sharp  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:40:01pm

Just when the discussion gets really interesting, my wife reminds me of the time.

'night all.

1081 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:40:13pm

So I started watching Discovery TV's program " Man on Earth", and in the first 5 minutes it has demonstrated just about every failing with science reportage/coverage against which I often rail.

There is little hope in battling the creationists when science is presented as a cross between a Roland Emmerich-ian blockbuster and a credit card television advert.

1082 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:40:24pm

re: #1073 SpaceJesus

ok i will buy it. it better come with crayons

Surely you can conjure up crayons?
nevah mind.

For you, a special special.

You can buy Volume 2 at the regular price.

And you can check out and buy Volume 1, also at its regular price.

Sound good?

1083 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:40:48pm

re: #1076 SanFranciscoZionist

One of Glenn Beck's advertisers is hocking NON-hybrid seeds. For when society falls apart. The website is surreal.

The issue is that hybrid seeds must be re-purchased, while non-hybrids can be gotten from the previous year's crop.

Which makes me wonder how many of the people buying them know what they are doing, or are they just going to hope that some seeds will fall out of last year's crop?

1084 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:41:27pm

re: #1082 reine.de.tout


Heh.

1085 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:41:54pm

re: #1060 SanFranciscoZionist

I didn't ask a question, BTW.

I don't recall responding to you on this issue; and I have no questions about you.

But if we disagree I am pleased to discuss. :=)

1086 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:42:09pm

re: #1054 BryanS

Why not use science to judge faith? It's the best method we have for investigation and discovering facts.

In this case I don't even think Walter is even suggesting we judge faith.

Basically, we have some translated Bronze Age texts. These texts attempt to describe the planet, solar system, etc. They make very specific claims. Many if not all of these claims have been disproved. This is all fact. What you choose to do with these texts, and the knowledge of the errors contained in them is entirely up to you.

I choose not to base my worldview around texts with such (in my opinion) profound errors. Others here clearly do not have these same issues as me. However,I don't think anyone can refute that the errors exist.

1087 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:42:11pm

re: #1073 SpaceJesus

ok i will buy it. it better come with crayons

Tell you what. I'll dig the crayons out of the couch and the toy box.

Since you are Space Jesus, you just come get them. They're only a little dusty and crummy.

1088 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:42:14pm

re: #1074 Stanley Sea

Did you do EST?

No... and yes, I know what it is. Ernhart Sensitivity Training.

1089 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:42:25pm

re: #1079 Walter L. Newton

No I'm not. I'm taking out the foundational material that informs believers of that Abrahamic g-d. I can't take out your faith, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (hebrews 11:1)... only you can.

But of course, by your standard, this statement holds no water. Unless I misunderstand your position.

1090 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:42:50pm

re: #1078 Oh no...Sand People!

I judge this faith, just too much empirical statistics working against it:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Rabid RoP attacking Lars the Mohammed Cartoonist at a University.
Allahu Akbar indeed...

You'll need your youtube account since it's been flagged...shocka.

The Islamic censor brigade always tries to flag vids like that. They don't like being shown as the aggressors they really are.

1091 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:42:56pm

re: #1089 Casual Talker

But of course, by your standard, this statement holds no water. Unless I misunderstand your position.

What part hold no water?

1092 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:43:00pm

Nighty all.

1093 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:43:17pm

re: #1063 Stanley Sea

I was wondering about that. Evil is a word to describe a human condition, not necessarily based on faith, although that's probably where the word came from. ??

I'm comfortably grounded in the evil department I think, and I'm not really insulted...but the notion that I cannot perceive evil without an accompanying faith seems ludacris...maybe that was not the intention of the post

1094 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:43:34pm

re: #1067 SpaceJesus

haiku night at stalkerblog might be fun

Cesspools imitate
craniums left empty by
autoerotics.

1095 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:43:42pm

re: #1061 Dark_Falcon

Because much of what faith requires cannot be verified by science. Science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, for example.

I think this goes down the path of what Dawkins calls the myth of Non-Overlapping Magisteria (NOMA). Science cannot prove lots of things, but that doesn't mean a religion gets to claim it's version of facts are the truth. There are all sorts of unprovable claims one could make, but those claims are just nonsense if they are not provable.

1096 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:43:51pm

shit i think i left my debit card at the bar

1097 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:43:56pm

re: #1076 SanFranciscoZionist

One of Glenn Beck's advertisers is hocking NON-hybrid seeds. For when society falls apart. The website is surreal.

Oh, right, I remember that from an earlier time. I missed your sarc. Sorry.

1098 SpaceJesus  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:44:13pm

cookbook tomorrow it is

1099 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:44:15pm

re: #1075 BryanS

Are you saying that it takes a religion to really come up with Evil concepts? I guess I can buy that. /

See 1077.

1100 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:44:24pm

re: #1091 Walter L. Newton

What part hold no water?

Quoting biblical text as support for your argument seems to be spurious, given your previously stated point of view, no?

1101 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:45:06pm

re: #1088 Walter L. Newton

No... and yes, I know what it is. Ernhart Sensitivity Training.

That would be fun, though: Give Walter carte blance to go after a sensitivity trainer, and then take bets on how long it takes for Walter to make the trainer cry. >:D

1102 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:45:06pm

re: #1064 b_sharp

We can and do use science to investigate the basis for religion and religious belief, but science isn't really a method of judgment of quality for things like faith.

But faith has no "quality" in my opinion. Unprovable claims, in my point of view, hold no authority.

1103 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:45:44pm

re: #1069 EmmmieG

Did you miss that episode of Dr. Who? Evil is bound to some rocks in the center of the earth which we stupid humans decide to mine.

missed it...darn

1104 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:46:13pm

re: #1090 Dark_Falcon

The Islamic censor brigade always tries to flag vids like that. They don't like being shown as the aggressors they really are.

I've been in some shaky situations and I know pretty well the feeling that comes from it. It's interesting to me that, as a general rule, I can handle borderline anything Hollywood can throw at me and it's kind of a 'oohhh', what if that really happened, sort of reaction.

When you see actual reality, the feeling is like, "wow"..accompanied by that 'it's gametime' rush and you gotta act or be acted upon. That guy has guts and it's a tragedy cartoons are a pretext for attempted murder.

1105 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:46:29pm

re: #1088 Walter L. Newton

No... and yes, I know what it is. Ernhart Sensitivity Training.

I went to their updated version - Landmark Forum. Probably 15 years ago. It wasn't too heavy, and I actually got something out of it, and met some great people, close friends to this day.

One of the courses we took was a kind of make every day worth it theme. Our assignment was to have one party a week. It was fun coming up with unusual events.

1106 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:46:34pm

re: #1086 McSpiff

In this case I don't even think Walter is even suggesting we judge faith.

Basically, we have some translated Bronze Age texts. These texts attempt to describe the planet, solar system, etc. They make very specific claims. Many if not all of these claims have been disproved. This is all fact. What you choose to do with these texts, and the knowledge of the errors contained in them is entirely up to you.

I choose not to base my worldview around texts with such (in my opinion) profound errors. Others here clearly do not have these same issues as me. However,I don't think anyone can refute that the errors exist.

You're spot on in describing what I am saying. I hear the argument over and over that science can't prove (or disprove) G-d. And I basically agree with that. But that same science can show numerous flaws in the foundational material that has informed most people of the existence of G-d.

So, science may not be able to disprove G-d, but it may be able to disprove the origins of that concept.

1107 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:47:13pm

re: #1096 SpaceJesus

shit i think i left my debit card at the bar

If you can't find that card, call the bar right way. That's not a thing you want to have wait till morning.

1108 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:47:54pm

re: #1103 albusteve

missed it...darn

I looked it up for you (aren't I nice?)

two parter:

The Impossible Planet
The Satan Pit

One of the scarier ones, mostly because the genocidal shopvacs aren't around.

1109 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:48:05pm

re: #1083 EmmmieG

The issue is that hybrid seeds must be re-purchased, while non-hybrids can be gotten from the previous year's crop.

Which makes me wonder how many of the people buying them know what they are doing, or are they just going to hope that some seeds will fall out of last year's crop?

I seriously doubt that most of them know what they're doing. If they were familiar with food gardening, they'd probably already be growing, and either have a seed supplier they like, or be harvesting their own seeds already.

I think this, for most people, just another purchase that will live in the safe in the hall closet with the Krugerrands.

Nu, OK.

1110 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:48:17pm

re: #1088 Walter L. Newton

No... and yes, I know what it is. Ernhart Sensitivity Training.

And I think Ernhart was not a friend of Scientology right?

I remember people there who were friends/admirers of Buckminster (Bucky they called him) Fulton.

1111 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:48:22pm

re: #1070 Nimed

You can make an argument based on reciprocity. Believers have your best interest in mind when they try to persuade you to join their religion. But you dislike being constantly evangelized. So you enter an implicit agreement with believers that you get off their back if they get off yours.

Eh...I don't mind telling the street evangelist that I am not convinced by their "gospel". They may scream and rant that I'm going to hell, but it's not like I believe in such a place such that it bothers me.

1112 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:49:09pm

re: #1096 SpaceJesus

shit i think i left my debit card at the bar

Transport yourself right on over there and get it!

1113 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:49:14pm

re: #1109 SanFranciscoZionist

I seriously doubt that most of them know what they're doing. If they were familiar with food gardening, they'd probably already be growing, and either have a seed supplier they like, or be harvesting their own seeds already.

I think this, for most people, just another purchase that will live in the safe in the hall closet with the Krugerrands.

Nu, OK.

You ever been in Northern Utah / Souther Idaho?

A whole lot of us know what we are doing.

1114 engineer cat  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:49:40pm

re: #1046 Walter L. Newton

I'm not attempting to use proven science to judge faith, but I am suggesting that if your faith grew out of the foundational material that has informed most believers, than I'm pointing out that you can't deny the flaw foundation that you used to build that faith.

I'm discussing the foundation. If your faith is such, my conversation doesn't hold anything of any weight for you, and I can't see why you would even be concerned?

actually, i'm a rationalist and therefore i look at it basically from your point of view. however, even if you are disputing the point of view of a biblical literalist who 'bases' his or her faith on the 'literal' truth and divine inspiration of the text, your definition of flawed does not answer what is important to them about the book. in other words, you are arguing at cross porpoises, uh, purposes

you might try thinking of religious texts like the best modern poetry, that inspire well even though perhaps one is not quite sure what the words mean literally. i am very fond of dylan thomas, james joyce, and wallace stevens for just that reason

1115 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:49:48pm

re: #1100 Casual Talker

Quoting biblical text as support for your argument seems to be spurious, given your previously stated point of view, no?

ID I say... "every single passage, every single moral concept, every pithy saying in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures is flawed, of no use, defective... of course I didn't.

Why, you don't find truthfulness in this concept "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

?

1116 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:50:17pm

re: #1077 Nimed

I'm an atheist myself. But I do find belief in pure Evil, something that many religions have, much harder than when I was a Catholic.

yes, I get you...evil, to some degree, is redeemed in the CC...I don't get all of it myself....Reine or Walter would know more about it...I've always shied away from the collective, especially churches so I'm a rube about the fine points

1117 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:50:18pm

re: #1113 Oh no...Sand People!

You ever been in Northern Utah / Souther Idaho?

A whole lot of us know what we are doing.

Yes, but I get my seeds for $15.00 from my ward Emergency Preparedness Specialist.

1118 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:50:43pm

re: #1069 EmmmieG

Did you miss that episode of Dr. Who? Evil is bound to some rocks in the center of the earth which we stupid humans decide to mine.

Hah. So that is where the Avatar script writers got their brilliantly original theme from!//

(I did however love it in 3D)

1119 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:51:12pm

re: #1117 EmmmieG

Yes, but I get my seeds for $15.00 from my ward Emergency Preparedness Specialist.

I just bought some from Glenn Beck.

///

1120 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:51:21pm

re: #1113 Oh no...Sand People!

You ever been in Northern Utah / Souther Idaho?

A whole lot of us know what we are doing.

You miss my point by a country mile.

1121 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:51:34pm

re: #1118 Naso Tang

Hah. So that is where the Avatar script writers got their brilliantly original theme from!//

(I did however love it in 3D)

Seriously? I didn't see Avatar.

3-D would leave with me a monster headache. Imax was torture.

1122 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:51:46pm

re: #1110 Stanley Sea

And I think Ernhart was not a friend of Scientology right?

I remember people there who were friends/admirers of Buckminster (Bucky they called him) Fulton.

Fuller! oops

1123 Silvergirl  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:52:12pm

re: #792 NJDhockeyfan

Muhammad cartoonist 'head-butted' during lecture

Here's the video

It's right after it happened and shows the scuffle with the police and the shouts of the other Muslims.

1124 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:52:39pm

re: #1120 SanFranciscoZionist

You miss my point by a country mile.

Sorry I didn't jump on the 'anyone who buys from Glenn is a moron' train.

1125 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:52:59pm

re: #1115 Walter L. Newton

ID I say... "every single passage, every single moral concept, every pithy saying in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures is flawed, of no use, defective... of course I didn't.

Why, you don't find truthfulness in this concept "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

?

I just don't find it a convincing argument for the errancy of biblical text. Too circularly corrupted as a convincing argument, sir. You don't see that, too? You had me there for a while, though.

1126 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:53:22pm

re: #1114 engineer dog

You are being ever so kind.

1127 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:53:32pm

re: #1106 Walter L. Newton

You're spot on in describing what I am saying. I hear the argument over and over that science can't prove (or disprove) G-d. And I basically agree with that. But that same science can show numerous flaws in the foundational material that has informed most people of the existence of G-d.

So, science may not be able to disprove G-d, but it may be able to disprove the origins of that concept.

yeah, that was a good post

1128 Casual Talker  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:53:58pm

re: #1115 Walter L. Newton

ID I say... "every single passage, every single moral concept, every pithy saying in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures is flawed, of no use, defective... of course I didn't.

Why, you don't find truthfulness in this concept "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

?

Have to go now, Walter. E. Newton. Have a wonderful night.

1129 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:54:04pm

re: #1086 McSpiff

In this case I don't even think Walter is even suggesting we judge faith.

Basically, we have some translated Bronze Age texts. These texts attempt to describe the planet, solar system, etc. They make very specific claims. Many if not all of these claims have been disproved. This is all fact. What you choose to do with these texts, and the knowledge of the errors contained in them is entirely up to you.

I choose not to base my worldview around texts with such (in my opinion) profound errors. Others here clearly do not have these same issues as me. However,I don't think anyone can refute that the errors exist.

But why is faith not judgeable? Why is questioning the validity of faith taboo? We certainly have passed judgement on faiths no longer practiced. The gods in Greek and Roman mythology were afterall sincerely believed in. Someone with a lack of faith can be asked to justify their position. I don't think someone of faith would think it offensive to ask that of an atheist.

1130 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:54:36pm

re: #1121 EmmmieG

Seriously? I didn't see Avatar.

3-D would leave with me a monster headache. Imax was torture.

No. You should see it. No headaches, no jumps in the seat. Beautiful scenery.

1131 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:54:39pm

re: #1111 BryanS

Eh...I don't mind telling the street evangelist that I am not convinced by their "gospel". They may scream and rant that I'm going to hell, but it's not like I believe in such a place such that it bothers me.

It's not the possibility that he converts you with his rant that bothers you. Frankly, out of all the discussions about religion that you've witnessed or participated in, how many people changed their mind?

The thing is, you're surrounded by people with different beliefs. Some of your family, friends, co-workers, etc. are bound to be religious. And I personally find it tiring (though you may not) to discuss it every time it comes up. Hence the reciprocity thing.

1132 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:54:42pm

re: #1123 Silvergirl

Here's the video

It's right after it happened and shows the scuffle with the police and the shouts of the other Muslims.

I would hate being police there.

1133 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:54:49pm

"Uppsala University spokeswoman Pernilla Bjork said Vilks was showing an excerpt from a film by an Iranian artist about Islam and homosexuality that had been banned from YouTube when the commotion started."

"It was about when Muslims and Muhammad are represented in homosexual situations," said Anders Montelius, a 23-year-old student who attended the lecture.

"Some people started shouting, things happened really fast. About 10 to 15 seconds later it erupts. A guy from the front row gets up and sets upon Vilks. Several others followed this man. There was commotion and police pepper-sprayed a couple of people," Montelius told AP.

"When the university person responsible for the lecture announced that the lecture was discontinued, there were cheers and chants in Arabic," he said.

AP

Another divine victory for the Religion of Peace.

1134 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:54:52pm

re: #1124 Oh no...Sand People!

Sorry I didn't jump on the 'anyone who buys from Glenn is a moron' train.

So, prepared survivalists are getting their gardening seeds in the special $149.99 cylinder that you can bury in the ground to save it from being confiscated?

REALLY?

1135 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:55:09pm

re: #1114 engineer dog

actually, i'm a rationalist and therefore i look at it basically from your point of view. however, even if you are disputing the point of view of a biblical literalist who 'bases' his or her faith on the 'literal' truth and divine inspiration of the text, your definition of flawed does not answer what is important to them about the book. in other words, you are arguing at cross porpoises, uh, purposes

you might try thinking of religious texts like the best modern poetry, that inspire well even though perhaps one is not quite sure what the words mean literally. i am very fond of dylan thomas, james joyce, and wallace stevens for just that reason

It doesn't matter what a biblical literalist bases whatever on, it doesn't change the scientific knowledge that has been built around the accuracy and validity of the religious texts. A literalist of any persuasion can find anything IN anything... but that doesn't change the science, doesn't change the truth.

And I have no purpose other than to speak the truth. If ones faith is secure, the truth should not matter.

1136 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:55:12pm

re: #1108 EmmmieG

I looked it up for you (aren't I nice?)

two parter:

The Impossible Planet
The Satan Pit

One of the scarier ones, mostly because the genocidal shopvacs aren't around.

thanks, and no shop vac is gonna take me down

1137 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:55:21pm

ahem, cough *ANNOUNCER VOICE*

"After world war III, after the apocalypse, after the rapture when only a handful of humanity was left clinging to life, there came...THE SEED WARS!"

"Tiny bands of humans barely clinging to life but willing to fight to the death over which type of seeds to plant.!"

Cyndi Lauper and Viggo Mortensen star in...THE SEED WARS! */ANNOUNCER VOICE*

1138 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:56:22pm

re: #1106 Walter L. Newton

You're spot on in describing what I am saying. I hear the argument over and over that science can't prove (or disprove) G-d. And I basically agree with that. But that same science can show numerous flaws in the foundational material that has informed most people of the existence of G-d.

So, science may not be able to disprove G-d, but it may be able to disprove the origins of that concept.

Ah, now I see the foundations of our different beliefs about religion.

You see the Bible as where the belief in God began.

I see the Bible as a record kept by people who believed in God.

1139 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:56:29pm

re: #1129 BryanS

Someone with a lack of faith can be asked to justify their position. I don't think someone of faith would think it offensive to ask that of an atheist.

I would. Why is it any of my business what someone thinks about the nature of things? If the person is a friend, maybe if we're close we'll talk about it, but I can't imagine demanding 'justification' for someone's lack of faith.

Who the hell am I?

1140 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:57:38pm

re: #1106 Walter L. Newton

We've been agreeing a lot lately. I apologize. But back to the topic at hand..

I think its important to note that religious texts can be an important aspect of any given religion, but they aren't the religion as such. We know of examples of religions in societies that don't have writing. Purely oral traditions as far as we can tell. In those cases, Walter's point about flawed texts doesn't apply.

So I don't view what you're saying as an attack on any religion as such. From my experience as a Catholic, some of the theological weight is carried by things not even seen in the Bible, such as saints and their miracles. In many ways, by accepting evolution and other aspects of modern science, the Catholic Church has largely accepted the errors in the text, and built around them theologically, reinforcing what science had weakened.

I truly hope I haven't offended anyone, and if I have I'd be happy to clarify myself and hopefully sort things out.

1141 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:57:43pm

re: #1136 albusteve

thanks, and no shop vac is gonna take me down

They didn't scare me when I was twelve, and they don't now.

Now, Jamie, from the Empty Child?

Jamie scares the crud out of me.

1142 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:58:01pm

re: #1134 SanFranciscoZionist

So, prepared survivalists are getting their gardening seeds in the special $149.99 cylinder that you can bury in the ground to save it from being confiscated?

REALLY?

Really. I guarantee there are people who do buy them. I personally wouldn't, but I guarantee there are. I would even dare say that there are those who not only buy them, but also know how to use them correctly, so if utilized for a 10 years, it would work out to be that 14.99 a year cost. But that's a lot of spent time.

1143 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:58:50pm

re: #1133 Bagua

"Uppsala University spokeswoman Pernilla Bjork said Vilks was showing an excerpt from a film by an Iranian artist about Islam and homosexuality that had been banned from YouTube when the commotion started."

"It was about when Muslims and Muhammad are represented in homosexual situations," said Anders Montelius, a 23-year-old student who attended the lecture.

"Some people started shouting, things happened really fast. About 10 to 15 seconds later it erupts. A guy from the front row gets up and sets upon Vilks. Several others followed this man. There was commotion and police pepper-sprayed a couple of people," Montelius told AP.

"When the university person responsible for the lecture announced that the lecture was discontinued, there were cheers and chants in Arabic," he said.

AP

Another divine victory for the Religion of Peace.

OK, I know nothing of this situation, but reading what you just posted "It was about when Muslims and Muhammad are represented in homosexual situations,"

Is that correct? Was that shown?

If so, what would our American Christian people here do if they saw something like that applied to their religion? Freak out.

Or am I completely off base?

1144 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:59:09pm

re: #82 reine.de.tout

I don't care about the mockery.

But those of us who are religious should just STFU?
Okey-dokey.

Bad phrasing I think it was. Not STFU.

1145 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:59:27pm

re: #1116 albusteve

yes, I get you...evil, to some degree, is redeemed in the CC...I don't get all of it myself...Reine or Walter would know more about it...I've always shied away from the collective, especially churches so I'm a rube about the fine points

:)
People may be redeemed, but Evil exists in a very real sense for a Catholic (it's even personified) and people are being constantly tempted by it.

I think this is a somewhat alien concept for an atheist. I certainly find the whole thing pretty strange myself.

1146 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 9:59:45pm

re: #1142 Oh no...Sand People!

Really. I guarantee there are people who do buy them. I personally wouldn't, but I guarantee there are. I would even dare say that there are those who not only buy them, but also know how to use them correctly, so if utilized for a 10 years, it would work out to be that 14.99 a year cost. But that's a lot of spent time.

OK.

1147 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:00:06pm

re: #1138 EmmmieG

Ah, now I see the foundations of our different beliefs about religion.

You see the Bible as where the belief in God began.

I see the Bible as a record kept by people who believed in God.

Chicken and egg dilemma. Nope... I see the bible as the notebook people used to put down their beliefs in G-d, their stories about G-d and their explanation about why they credit G-d with the motivation to do what they did, both spiritually and socially and politically.

I see science as the agent that has proven that what was written down in those texts is flawed in many, many places.

Makes you wonder what they thought they were writing?

1148 Jadespring  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:00:19pm

Sometimes it just hits me and I think, 'Wow the internet is way cool'.

I've just been chatting in part (bad) Spanish (with the help of google translator) and part English to some random person in Ecuador. Ecuador! Blows my mind sometimes when I really think about it.

1149 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:00:24pm

re: #1133 Bagua

"Uppsala University spokeswoman Pernilla Bjork said Vilks was showing an excerpt from a film by an Iranian artist about Islam and homosexuality that had been banned from YouTube when the commotion started."

"It was about when Muslims and Muhammad are represented in homosexual situations," said Anders Montelius, a 23-year-old student who attended the lecture.

"Some people started shouting, things happened really fast. About 10 to 15 seconds later it erupts. A guy from the front row gets up and sets upon Vilks. Several others followed this man. There was commotion and police pepper-sprayed a couple of people," Montelius told AP.

"When the university person responsible for the lecture announced that the lecture was discontinued, there were cheers and chants in Arabic," he said.

AP

Another divine victory for the Religion of Peace.

That is so pathetic. To cancel a lecture because of a crowd chanting "Allahu Akbar!" only encourages the radicals. The correct answer is to call in the riot squad and crush the Islamists like bugs. Then finish the lecture. Never Back Down.

1150 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:00:28pm

re: #1143 Stanley Sea

OK, I know nothing of this situation, but reading what you just posted "It was about when Muslims and Muhammad are represented in homosexual situations,"

Is that correct? Was that shown?

If so, what would our American Christian people here do if they saw something like that applied to their religion? Freak out.

Or am I completely off base?

Anyone die over a cross in urine? Fecal Virgin Mary? No.

1151 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:01:48pm

re: #1150 Oh no...Sand People!

Anyone die over a cross in urine? Fecal Virgin Mary? No.

Come on.

You don't see it how I do, do you.

1152 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:02:21pm

re: #1131 Nimed

It's not the possibility that he converts you with his rant that bothers you. Frankly, out of all the discussions about religion that you've witnessed or participated in, how many people changed their mind?

The thing is, you're surrounded by people with different beliefs. Some of your family, friends, co-workers, etc. are bound to be religious. And I personally find it tiring (though you may not) to discuss it every time it comes up. Hence the reciprocity thing.

People do change their minds. Something sure happened to Kirk Cameron to make him jump on the anti-evolutionist band wagon. Nobody is ever born say a Christian--in the sense that they have an innate belief in Christ without being indoctrinated. There are plenty of people who have converted to atheism. These conversion in either direction don't happen in a vacuum.

1153 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:02:28pm

re: #1149 Dark_Falcon

That is so pathetic. To cancel a lecture because of a crowd chanting "Allahu Akbar!" only encourages the radicals. The correct answer is to call in the riot squad and crush the Islamists like bugs. Then finish the lecture. Never Back Down.

That culture only responds to force. Sad, but that's the way it is. You back down, you are a target from then on.

1154 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:02:53pm

re: #1129 BryanS

But why is faith not judgeable? Why is questioning the validity of faith taboo? We certainly have passed judgement on faiths no longer practiced. The gods in Greek and Roman mythology were afterall sincerely believed in. Someone with a lack of faith can be asked to justify their position. I don't think someone of faith would think it offensive to ask that of an atheist.

Because I can't win. And I debate to win. Faith is purely between someone else's ears. I can only debate what can be shown to be a falsifiable hypothesis.

In a personal way, I judge. Every time I'm exposed to a new faith, I mentally run it through a gauntlet of questions. If one day I can answer them all satisfactorily I may just convert.

1155 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:03:34pm

re: #1122 Stanley Sea

Fuller! oops

I remember going to monthly events like you describe. I remember going to a lot of "spiritual" events of all sorts... I also remember being disenchanted a lot.

I'm very comfortable with the facts as I now know them.

1156 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:03:50pm

re: #1135 Walter L. Newton

It doesn't matter what a biblical literalist bases whatever on, it doesn't change the scientific knowledge that has been built around the accuracy and validity of the religious texts. A literalist of any persuasion can find anything IN anything... but that doesn't change the science, doesn't change the truth.

And I have no purpose other than to speak the truth. If ones faith is secure, the truth should not matter.

That is precisely what I find scary about faith--that if one's faith is secure, the truth should not matter. How is this good?

1157 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:04:18pm

re: #1140 McSpiff

I should have said former Catholic. Just meant to imply I had some degree of familiarity with the theology there. Sorry for any confusion.

1158 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:04:20pm

re: #1145 Nimed

:)
People may be redeemed, but Evil exists in a very real sense for a Catholic (it's even personified) and people are being constantly tempted by it.

I think this is a somewhat alien concept for an atheist. I certainly find the whole thing pretty strange myself.

I just listen and try to learn stuff....this blog abounds with religious input

1159 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:04:37pm

re: #1143 Stanley Sea

OK, I know nothing of this situation, but reading what you just posted "It was about when Muslims and Muhammad are represented in homosexual situations,"

Is that correct? Was that shown?

If so, what would our American Christian people here do if they saw something like that applied to their religion? Freak out.

Or am I completely off base?

Way off base. Christians believe in peace, not violence. While there are exceptions, it is unusual to see a violent crowd attacking an artist while shouting "Jesus loves you!"

1160 Silvergirl  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:04:43pm

re: #1143 Stanley Sea

OK, I know nothing of this situation, but reading what you just posted "It was about when Muslims and Muhammad are represented in homosexual situations,"

Is that correct? Was that shown?

If so, what would our American Christian people here do if they saw something like that applied to their religion? Freak out.

Or am I completely off base?

This whole situation isn't easily compared as you're doing. To start, Vilks already had a fatwa declared on him from an earlier incident. He's truly lucky he got away with a headbutt instead of a having his head lopped off.

1161 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:04:45pm

Yeah fine, science has disproved a lot of biblical points so therefore it is all bullshit...sigh.

But what about Jesus showing up on a piece of toast several times a year? Doesn't the empirical evidence disprove your science theories in that case?

/I can be just as silly as you if were only going to mangle logic theory...

1162 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:04:45pm

re: #1151 Stanley Sea

Come on.

You don't see it how I do, do you.

You could have art showing JC shagging a rabid rhino and it would make we 'christian's' a bit perturbed and frustrated, but I highly doubt that the person would need body guards from then on out.

But the books are at odds with one another.

1163 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:06:04pm

re: #1159 Bagua

Way off base. Christians believe in peace, not violence. While there are exceptions, it is unusual to see a violent crowd attacking an artist while shouting "Jesus loves you!"

No, that's usually reserved for abortion clinics it seems.

1164 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:06:39pm

re: #1156 BryanS

That is precisely what I find scary about faith--that if one's faith is secure, the truth should not matter. How is this good?

I know lots of people who's faith is secure. They don't harm no one, they are moral, non-judgmental, careful and cautious, but not over bearing, scientific but open to spiritual concepts... anything bad about all that?

I think you confuse faith with stupidity.

1165 engineer cat  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:07:07pm

re: #1135 Walter L. Newton

It doesn't matter what a biblical literalist bases whatever on, it doesn't change the scientific knowledge that has been built around the accuracy and validity of the religious texts. A literalist of any persuasion can find anything IN anything... but that doesn't change the science, doesn't change the truth.

And I have no purpose other than to speak the truth. If ones faith is secure, the truth should not matter.

well, i definitely agree with you that persons who believe that the bible is a book of legal statutes handed down by judge god, to be followed to the letter, or a textbook of history that is never wrong, are bound to be betrayed by the actuality of what is in it. 'flawed' would not be exactly the way i would put it, but it is a contradictory text that defies being mistaken for a consistent and realistic guidebook

actually, i was quite shocked the first time i read the bible through. the old testament is an autobiography of a people who practised slavery, polygamy, and animal sacrifice. almost every important person in it does something horrible and inexcusable. yet, there are also righteous commandments

but the bible literalists don't seem to want to talk about any of that, including the righteous commandments...

1166 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:07:25pm

re: #1159 Bagua

Way off base. Christians believe in peace, not violence. While there are exceptions, it is unusual to see a violent crowd attacking an artist while shouting "Jesus loves you!"

All I know, from what you posted (I didn't watch the vid) If a program had Jesus and whoever in a homosexual vignette, people would FREAK.

Hell, goddamnedfrank gets hell here at LGF for his name. come on

1167 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:07:42pm

re: #1163 McSpiff

No, that's usually what happens once in a blue moon reserved for abortion clinics it seems.

FTFY

1168 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:07:50pm

re: #1139 SanFranciscoZionist

I would. Why is it any of my business what someone thinks about the nature of things? If the person is a friend, maybe if we're close we'll talk about it, but I can't imagine demanding 'justification' for someone's lack of faith.

Who the hell am I?

You may not ask an atheist to justify themselves, but it is a very common thing once it does come up.

1169 engineer cat  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:08:21pm

re: #1126 Naso Tang

You are being ever so kind.

:-)

thank you - but i'm not 100% sure of the import of this statement

:-)

1170 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:08:27pm

re: #1162 Oh no...Sand People!

You could have art showing JC shagging a rabid rhino and it would make we 'christian's' a bit perturbed and frustrated, but I highly doubt that the person would need body guards from then on out.

But the books are at odds with one another.

Bullshit.

1171 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:08:30pm

re: #1153 Oh no...Sand People!

That culture only responds to force. Sad, but that's the way it is. You back down, you are a target from then on.

Quite Concur!

1172 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:08:34pm

re: #1161 ausador

Yeah fine, science has disproved a lot of biblical points so therefore it is all bullshit...sigh.

But what about Jesus showing up on a piece of toast several times a year? Doesn't the empirical evidence disprove your science theories in that case?

/I can be just as silly as you if were only going to mangle logic theory...

If you were not originally informed by those biblical texts of the possible existence of a personage named Jesus, you or anyone would never have seen him in a piece of toast.

No someone may have mistaken the image for Mick Jagger, but that's another topic.

1173 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:09:00pm

re: #1168 BryanS

You may not ask an atheist to justify themselves, but it is a very common thing once it does come up.

Apparently I'm not allowed to have morals. Or some such.
:)

1174 Silvergirl  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:09:02pm

re: #1166 Stanley Sea

All I know, from what you posted (I didn't watch the vid) If a program had Jesus and whoever in a homosexual vignette, people would FREAK.

Hell, goddamnedfrank gets hell here at LGF for his name. come on

I've missed that. Yet he still goes by that name.

1175 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:09:14pm

re: #1170 Stanley Sea

Bullshit.

Before you continue your moral relative ingorance, WATCH THE VIDEO.

1176 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:09:20pm

re: #1163 McSpiff

No, that's usually reserved for abortion clinics it seems.

Exactly. Ask Dr. Tiller how his fatwa worked out.

1177 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:09:43pm

re: #1163 McSpiff

No, that's usually reserved for abortion clinics it seems.

That is one of the exceptions, and an extreme one at that. But if you feel better making such a ridiculous TQQ, then enjoy.

1178 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:09:49pm

re: #1172 Walter L. Newton

One must ask...

What kind of food would Keith Richards' image appear on?

Justin Bieber?

1179 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:09:56pm

re: #1167 Oh no...Sand People!

FTFY

Do you have any idea how many Muslims are on this planet? Hint: its approaching a quarter of the world's population. You really think most of them are out attacking artists, etc? No. Most of them just live their lives.

1180 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:09:56pm

re: #1149 Dark_Falcon

That is so pathetic. To cancel a lecture because of a crowd chanting "Allahu Akbar!" only encourages the radicals. The correct answer is to call in the riot squad and crush the Islamists like bugs. Then finish the lecture. Never Back Down.

I think I read elsewhere the lecture was stopped because the speaker was physically attacked.

1181 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:10:05pm

re: #1150 Oh no...Sand People!

Anyone die over a cross in urine? Fecal Virgin Mary? No.

As I linked the other day, Poland has prosecuted before and is doing so now similar offenses. Punishment includes years in jail.

1182 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:10:21pm

re: #1178 EmmmieG

One must ask...

What kind of food would Keith Richards' image appear on?

Justin Bieber?

A pool of vomit probably.

1183 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:11:06pm

re: #1177 Bagua

That is one of the exceptions, and an extreme one at that. But if you feel better making such a ridiculous TQQ, then enjoy.

You're right, most Christians just live quiet normal lives. Same with over a billion Muslims.

1184 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:11:24pm

To bed... goodnight all...

1185 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:11:25pm

re: #1178 EmmmieG

One must ask...

What kind of food would Keith Richards' image appear on?

Justin Bieber?

Coconut.

1186 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:11:28pm

re: #1166 Stanley Sea

All I know, from what you posted (I didn't watch the vid) If a program had Jesus and whoever in a homosexual vignette, people would FREAK.

Hell, goddamnedfrank gets hell here at LGF for his name. come on

They'd freak, but that freaking would mean protests and calls for boycott. It would not mean attempts to cut the director's head off.

1187 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:12:02pm

re: #1145 Nimed

:)
People may be redeemed, but Evil exists in a very real sense for a Catholic (it's even personified) and people are being constantly tempted by it.

I think this is a somewhat alien concept for an atheist. I certainly find the whole thing pretty strange myself.

Not a strange concept, even to an atheist, although I am not sure I understand your meaning of strange.

1188 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:12:30pm

re: #1179 McSpiff

Do you have any idea how many Muslims are on this planet? Hint: its approaching a quarter of the world's population. You really think most of them are out attacking artists, etc? No. Most of them just live their lives.

I feel like it's 2006 here. Ok, let's run the number of 1.6 gabszilliongatrillion people.

Let's pretend that only .05 (being half) of 1% are the wahabi nutjobs.

That is = 80,000,000?

I feel better already.

1189 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:13:15pm

re: #1166 Stanley Sea

All I know, from what you posted (I didn't watch the vid) If a program had Jesus and whoever in a homosexual vignette, people would FREAK.

Hell, goddamnedfrank gets hell here at LGF for his name. come on

You are saying they would attack the presenter? Threaten his life? Cause riots?

You equate Frank getting snappy comments with violent assault of a lecturer in a university?

Why this desperation to deny what is so painfully obvious and this need to say "The Christians do it too"?

1190 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:13:41pm

re: #1188 Oh no...Sand People!

I feel like it's 2006 here. Ok, let's run the number of 1.6 gabszilliongatrillion people.

Let's pretend that only .05 (being half) of 1% are the wahabi nutjobs.

That is = 80,000,000?

I feel better already.

500000

1191 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:13:54pm

re: #1178 EmmmieG

With the warm, fuzzy feeling that most people here have no idea who Justin Bieber is (I have teens, unfortunately), I will leave you all and go to bed now.

Good, serious conversation tonight.

1192 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:14:02pm

re: #1188 Oh no...Sand People!

I feel like it's 2006 here. Ok, let's run the number of 1.6 gabszilliongatrillion people.

Let's pretend that only .05 (being half) of 1% are the wahabi nutjobs.

That is = 80,000,000?

I feel better already.

Well you just did that ass backwards. Most rational people would estimate the number of extremists, and then determine the % of radicals from that. The calculation you just did is beyond meaningless.

1193 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:14:25pm

re: #1175 Oh no...Sand People!

Before you continue your moral relative ingorance, WATCH THE VIDEO.

1.3 billion Muslims in the world. A very small fraction of which concerned with your drawings.

1194 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:14:29pm

re: #1178 EmmmieG

One must ask...

What kind of food would Keith Richards' image appear on?

Justin Bieber?

I see him in my bowl of Fruit Loops

1195 freetoken  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:14:29pm

That "Man on Earth" show, which I am trying to watch but find that I can't stand it, was produced by Channel 4 in the UK, and distributed in the US by Discovery.

The problem is the host is an actor/politician (Tony Robinson), who clearly doesn't have the expertise needed to realize the script given to him is full of very non-scientific hyperbole.

1196 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:14:31pm

STOCKHOLM (AP) -- A Swedish artist who angered Muslims by depicting the Prophet Muhammad as a dog was assaulted as furious protesters interrupted his university lecture about the limits of free speech.

Lars Vilks told The Associated Press that a man leaped from the front row and head-butted him Tuesday as he was delivering his lecture at Uppsala University, breaking Vilks' glasses but leaving him uninjured.

Police later said the attacker was stopped before he could reach Vilks and that the artist may have bumped into plain-clothes officers who briskly evacuated him from the room. Three people were detained, but it wasn't immediately clear whether the attacker was among them.

A video clip of the incident by a Swedish newspaper showed police using pepper spray and batons to hold off an angry crowd shouting "God is great" in Arabic after Vilks was escorted out of the lecture hall.

Vilks has faced numerous threats over his controversial drawing of Muhammad with a dog's body, but Tuesday's incident was the first physical assault directed against him.

1197 BlackFedora  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:15:21pm

That's a cynical ad all the way down to the folksy "aw shucks" voices talking in it.

1198 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:16:18pm

re: #1193 Nimed

1.3 billion Muslims in the world. A very small fraction of which concerned with your drawings.

Are you sure? My business partners, Christians, fled their native country because the Muslims would periodically attack their community, burn their churches, etc.

1199 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:16:18pm

re: #1161 ausador

Yeah fine, science has disproved a lot of biblical points so therefore it is all bullshit...sigh.

But what about Jesus showing up on a piece of toast several times a year? Doesn't the empirical evidence disprove your science theories in that case?

/I can be just as silly as you if were only going to mangle logic theory...

Heh...take and eat, for this is my body. See, Jesus toast proves the bible is right.

1200 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:16:46pm

re: #1189 Bagua

You are saying they would attack the presenter? Threaten his life? Cause riots?

You equate Frank getting snappy comments with violent assault of a lecturer in a university?

Why this desperation to deny what is so painfully obvious and this need to say "The Christians do it too"?

Don't you see the possibility of religious outrage? Christians in America would do who knows what if they saw something with Jesus in a homosexual situation.

1201 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:17:24pm

re: #1187 Naso Tang

Not a strange concept, even to an atheist, although I am not sure I understand your meaning of strange.

Maybe we're talking about different things. What do you understand by pure Evil?

1202 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:18:32pm

re: #1164 Walter L. Newton

I know lots of people who's faith is secure. They don't harm no one, they are moral, non-judgmental, careful and cautious, but not over bearing, scientific but open to spiritual concepts... anything bad about all that?

I think you confuse faith with stupidity.

Two incongruent ideas there--scientific, but open to spiritual concepts.

1203 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:18:50pm

re: #1192 McSpiff

Well you just did that ass backwards. Most rational people would estimate the number of extremists, and then determine the % of radicals from that. The calculation you just did is beyond meaningless.

When the radicals number in the 4% range, I know I am giving them the benefit of the round down. There are many surveys in Canada alone that the extremists tend to a close to 10%. Since this website has toned down and trended to the moderate, I don't have all my links to show you handy, as well as being late and not all that up to enlighten you.

1204 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:19:54pm

re: #1198 Bagua

Are you sure? My business partners, Christians, fled their native country because the Muslims would periodically attack their community, burn their churches, etc.

No way? I know some business owners who fled Christian attacks in their homeland! Maybe we should introduce them to each other?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The plural of anecdote is not data.

1205 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:20:19pm

re: #1173 Varek Raith

Apparently I'm not allowed to have morals. Or some such.
:)

Right, since atheists "have nothing to base morality on". As if the person of faith has nothing but their religion to old them back from rape and murder.

1206 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:20:38pm

Logging off for the night. Won't be back till late tomorrow afternoon. Sleep well, All.

1207 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:20:59pm

re: #1203 Oh no...Sand People!

When the radicals number in the 4% range, I know I am giving them the benefit of the round down. There are many surveys in Canada alone that the extremists tend to a close to 10%. Since this website has toned down and trended to the moderate, I don't have all my links to show you handy, as well as being late and not all that up to enlighten you.

I'd seriously need to see some data backing up the claim that somewhere in the range of 4-10% of 1.5 billion people are extremists.

1208 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:21:06pm

re: #1200 Stanley Sea

Don't you see the possibility of religious outrage? Christians in America would do who knows what if they saw something with Jesus in a homosexual situation.

The possibility? Are you serious? As opposed to what? The countless examples of violence from Muslims in the name of Islam?

Get real. Your imaginary violence does not equate with the very real violence associated with present day Islam.

1209 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:21:18pm

re: #1200 Stanley Sea

Don't you see the possibility of religious outrage? Christians in America would do who knows what if they saw something with Jesus in a homosexual situation.

It's been done already!

Jesus has been depicted of sleeping with Mary Magdelane, a 'whore'.
He has slept with boys as part of his 'mysteries'.

It's been done. No outrage, no liberal self righteous bonus points in pointing it out. And now We have Trey and South Park other dude working on a Broadway Play about Mormons. Hooray...snore. When they take on Islam and truly take a risk, I'll be interested.

1210 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:22:03pm

re: #964 Reginald Perrin

I think Floral should be a good little pet and tell Us what she was thinking.

Pet? BAH? Show me the switch.

1211 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:22:10pm

re: #1208 Bagua

The possibility? Are you serious? As opposed to what? The countless examples of violence from Muslims in the name of Islam?

Get real. Your imaginary violence does not equate with the very real violence associated with present day Islam.

I am talking about this current incident.

You are combining it with every experience you've had and read about.

1212 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:22:10pm

re: #1207 McSpiff

I'd seriously need to see some data backing up the claim that somewhere in the range of 4-10% of 1.5 billion people are extremists.

I have loads and loads...just not at my fingertips.

And it's late. And I am tired.

You all enjoy your nights.

1213 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:22:36pm

re: #1212 Oh no...Sand People!

I have loads and loads...just not at my fingertips.

And it's late. And I am tired.

You all enjoy your nights.

Agreed. But I'll hit you up for those another time if its cool?

1214 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:22:50pm

re: #1179 McSpiff

Do you have any idea how many Muslims are on this planet? Hint: its approaching a quarter of the world's population. You really think most of them are out attacking artists, etc? No. Most of them just live their lives.

Yes, thankfully most Muslims are choosing to ignore their texts' requirement wage war on non believers, Christians, and Jews. Still, many of them choose to take up the call.

1215 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:23:07pm

re: #1213 McSpiff

Agreed. But I'll hit you up for those another time if its cool?

Completely. Later folks.

1216 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:23:17pm

re: #1209 Oh no...Sand People!

Fuck Islam.
Fuck Hinduism.
Fuck Christianity.
Fuck Jedi.
Fuck religion.
Satisfied?

1217 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:23:21pm

re: #1203 Oh no...Sand People!

When the radicals number in the 4% range, I know I am giving them the benefit of the round down. There are many surveys in Canada alone that the extremists tend to a close to 10%. Since this website has toned down and trended to the moderate, I don't have all my links to show you handy, as well as being late and not all that up to enlighten you.

and they have been walking across our borders for decades now...radical Muslims have not even shown their faces yet...we are in for a real treat when they do

1218 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:23:25pm

re: #972 LudwigVanQuixote

Floral, educate the masses. You had an interesting thought. And it would, if you are interested in continuing the game, make heads of various interesting people explode.

This is after all a *joke*

Is it the feeling of a firm hand entwined in your hair, putting you in position and the steady voice in your ear, or the waiting while bound, knowing that your fate is being decided that is more appealing?

No, I cannot post those thoughts in public.
It was a good try, though!

1219 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:23:33pm

re: #1204 McSpiff

No way? I know some business owners who fled Christian attacks in their homeland! Maybe we should introduce them to each other?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The plural of anecdote is not data.

How amusing, Uganda? That's scraping the bottom of the barrel. Of course there are exceptions, but unusual and not at all widespread. Alternatively, Islamic violence is a worldwide phenomenon.

1220 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:24:36pm

re: #1207 McSpiff

I'd seriously need to see some data backing up the claim that somewhere in the range of 4-10% of 1.5 billion people are extremists.

what difference will the exact numbers make?

1221 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:24:47pm

re: #1198 Bagua

Are you sure? My business partners, Christians, fled their native country because the Muslims would periodically attack their community, burn their churches, etc.

But this also happens in some Christian communities (remember that Kenyan priest that expelled a witch from his village and blessed Palin?). This discussion always boils down to a question of numbers, and yes, Muslims commit more atrocities in the name of their faith than Christians today.

OTOH, this hasn't always been the case historically, and the fact that the vast majority of Muslims don't, in fact, participate in these atrocities makes me very reticent to claim that there's something intrinsically more violent about Islam.

1222 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:24:49pm

re: #1219 Bagua

How amusing, Uganda? That's scraping the bottom of the barrel. Of course there are exceptions, but unusual and not at all widespread. Alternatively, Islamic violence is a worldwide phenomenon.

I'm glad you can belittle their stories. I wasn't picking them as an example to amuse you.

1223 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:25:25pm

re: #1211 Stanley Sea

I am talking about this current incident.

You are combining it with every experience you've had and read about.

Right, and this "current incident" features apparent Muslims, shouting Allah Akba in Arabic and attacking a university lecturer.

1224 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:25:48pm

re: #1214 BryanS

Yes, thankfully most Muslims are choosing to ignore their texts' requirement wage war on non believers, Christians, and Jews. Still, many of them choose to take up the call.

'Choosing to ignore' falls into the Spencerian trap of assuming there is no valid interpretation of Muslim text that doesn't require such.

1225 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:26:02pm

re: #1216 Varek Raith

Fuck Islam.
Fuck Hinduism.
Fuck Christianity.
Fuck Jedi.
Fuck religion.
Satisfied?

You left me out!

1226 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:26:06pm

I highly recommend reading James Micheners "The Source" to get a perspective on religion.

Yes it is fiction and thus has a readable plot (mostly) but it is also highly accurate historically and very well researched. You will probably never see religion (at least Judaism, Christian, or Islam) quite the same way again after reading it.

As was already said up thread, God was here long before the bible was, I don't need to find my belief there and I don't. I do like the "Gospel" though, and find inspiration there. Nothing too wrong with Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John, just stop there before Paul comes along and messes it all up. ;)

1227 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:26:06pm

re: #1220 albusteve

what difference will the exact numbers make?

In a discussion about whether or not Islam has a larger number of extremists in its ranks given its size? That's basically the entire point.

1228 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:26:26pm

re: #1205 BryanS

Right, since atheists "have nothing to base morality on". As if the person of faith has nothing but their religion to old them back from rape and murder.

Right, but that's a very different matter. That claim always pisses me off.

1229 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:27:09pm

re: #1216 Varek Raith

Fuck Islam.
Fuck Hinduism.
Fuck Christianity.
Fuck Jedi.
Fuck religion.
Satisfied?

It's a good start.

1230 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:27:51pm

re: #1225 SanFranciscoZionist

You left me out!

Aren't you guys all Jedi???
/

1231 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:27:58pm

re: #1216 Varek Raith

Fuck Islam.
Fuck Hinduism.
Fuck Christianity.
Fuck Jedi.
Fuck religion.
Satisfied?

ahhh....I'm bored, stroked and satisfied

1232 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:28:21pm

re: #1207 McSpiff

I'd seriously need to see some data backing up the claim that somewhere in the range of 4-10% of 1.5 billion people are extremists.

These argument based on percentages relating to "extremists" are meaningless. The only issue is whether or not "they" are willing to denounce (and that applies to any religion) as not belonging to "their" religion when they hold or take stances that warrant the label of extremist.

As far as I can tell, no religion is willing to go to that extreme.

1233 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:28:24pm

re: #1223 Bagua

Right, and this "current incident" features apparent Muslims, shouting Allah Akba in Arabic and attacking a university lecturer.

After viewing a vignette of their religious leader in a homosexual situation.

1234 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:28:25pm

re: #1231 albusteve

ahhh...I'm bored, stroked and satisfied

Indeed. I'm bored as hell.

1235 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:29:10pm

re: #1221 Nimed

But this also happens in some Christian communities (remember that Kenyan priest that expelled a witch from his village and blessed Palin?). This discussion always boils down to a question of numbers, and yes, Muslims commit more atrocities in the name of their faith than Christians today.

OTOH, this hasn't always been the case historically, and the fact that the vast majority of Muslims don't, in fact, participate in these atrocities makes me very reticent to claim that there's something intrinsically more violent about Islam.

Bingo. Pretending that Islam has violence in its genes and Christianity does not, merely based on the current situations, involves ignoring a hell of a lot of history.

I wouldn't mind ignoring history and focusing on the present, except that the 'violence in the genes' argument always seems to go back to the seventh century lickety-split.

1236 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:29:22pm

re: #1222 McSpiff

I'm glad you can belittle their stories. I wasn't picking them as an example to amuse you.

Belittle their stories? What is your problem? Uganda is a hell-hole and that freak group is hardly typical of Christianity. You quote an incident from some African cult leader who proclaims himself "spokesman for God" and suggest that is typical of Christians?

And guess what? From your link:

The group asserts itsef to be Christian and is influenced by a blend of Mysticism, Islam, traditional religion, and witchcraft,

I wonder what the influence from Islam is? Heh.

1237 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:30:15pm

Goodnight all.

1238 Jadespring  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:30:57pm

re: #1234 Varek Raith

Indeed. I'm bored as hell.

I would think that hell is a lot of things. I doubt boring is one of them. Though I suppose there could be section of it designated to those who can't stand being bored. That could be quite hellish now that I think about it.

1239 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:31:07pm

re: #1233 Stanley Sea

After viewing a vignette of their religious leader in a homosexual situation.

You homophobic?

You are saying that depicting someone as Gay is justification for violence and riot?

1240 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:31:49pm

re: #1238 Jadespring

I would think that hell is a lot of things. I doubt boring is one of them. Though I suppose there could be section of it designated to those who can't stand being bored. That could be quite hellish now that I think about it.

QUIT MESSING UP MY METAPHORS!!1!!!
:)

1241 Silvergirl  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:32:10pm

re: #1233 Stanley Sea

After viewing a vignette of their religious leader in a homosexual situation.

This is their get out of jail free card?

1242 Jadespring  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:32:20pm

re: #1240 Varek Raith

QUIT MESSING UP MY METAPHORS!!1!!!
:)

;)

1243 BryanS  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:33:55pm

re: #1224 SanFranciscoZionist

'Choosing to ignore' falls into the Spencerian trap of assuming there is no valid interpretation of Muslim text that doesn't require such.

Perhaps. But the text says what it says--and in some places very clearly. Being more familiar with the bible in particular, the book of genesis could be "interpreted" in a way to mean it is all allegory. Certainly with that sort of leeway, a text could potentially be made to say whatever humans want it to. In a sense, I think that does happen. But it's hard to interpret away the clear message of Muslim subjugation of non-Muslims throughout their text.

1244 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:34:20pm

re: #1234 Varek Raith

Indeed. I'm bored as hell.

you just need more horsepower...speed away from questions like...how many radical Islamists does it take to kill you?

1245 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:34:25pm

What is your problem McSpiff? You think and artist depicting someone as gay is justification to attack the artist?

1246 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:34:35pm

re: #1244 albusteve

you just need more horsepower...speed away from questions like...how many radical Islamists does it take to kill you?

Good point.

1247 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:35:59pm

re: #1245 Bagua

What is your problem McSpiff? You think and artist depicting someone as gay is justification to attack the artist?

Nope, I think replying with a charge of "you homophobic?" is a poor way to debate. If you want someone to clarify what they've said, ask. That's a pretty strong accusation to make based off a one liner that was clearly lacking context, either for or against.

1248 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:37:10pm

re: #1240 Varek Raith

QUIT MESSING UP MY METAPHORS!!1!!!
:)

That was a simile, actually.

1249 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:37:34pm

re: #1248 SanFranciscoZionist

That was a simile, actually.

.....
....
...
Damn!!!

1250 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:37:49pm

re: #1239 Bagua

You homophobic?

You are saying that depicting someone as Gay is justification for violence and riot?

Ah, no.

1251 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:38:15pm

re: #1244 albusteve

you just need more horsepower...speed away from questions like...how many radical Islamists does it take to kill you?

Well, it only takes one rabid dog. So I'd assume they're at least as successful as a rapid dog and say one.

1252 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:38:32pm

I have had all the thread I can stand for the evening, and my husband is out getting a pudding ring.

Good night, all.

1253 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:38:38pm

re: #1227 McSpiff

In a discussion about whether or not Islam has a larger number of extremists in its ranks given its size? That's basically the entire point.

So should we also be talking be talking about what percentage of Christians believe in the rapture and therefore don't give a shit about polluting the planet, believe in the UN takeover and one world government under the anti-christ, believe that wars and plagues and starvation "just happen" because the bible says they will (and will get worse as the "end times" approach) and therefore are not to be opposed?

Christianity as some practice it, especially in this country, is doing a heck of a lot of damage to the world too, it isn't all just Islamic bombers.

1254 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:38:44pm

re: #1247 McSpiff

Nope, I think replying with a charge of "you homophobic?" is a poor way to debate. If you want someone to clarify what they've said, ask. That's a pretty strong accusation to make based off a one liner that was clearly lacking context, either for or against.

Oh really?

He said:


After viewing a vignette of their religious leader in a homosexual situation.

With the obvious implication that it was understandable that they rushed the stage and violently attacked the artist.

Art depicting Gay themes is most certainly not a justification for attacking artists. It is indeed homophobic.

1255 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:41:15pm

re: #1254 Bagua

Well, I've seen Stanley defend gay rights here countless times. So I have my own bias and didn't do quite as much nipple gazing into that one comment. But I commend you on being able to write a critique 4x longer than the original comment.

1256 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:41:20pm

re: #1241 Silvergirl

This is their get out of jail free card?

All I can imagine is a Christian reacting to the same thing with Jesus. Sorry.

1257 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:41:33pm

re: #1253 ausador

So should we also be talking be talking about what percentage of Christians believe in the rapture and therefore don't give a shit about polluting the planet, believe in the UN takeover and one world government under the anti-christ, believe that wars and plagues and starvation "just happen" because the bible says they will (and will get worse as the "end times" approach) and therefore are not to be opposed?

Christianity as some practice it, especially in this country, is doing a heck of a lot of damage to the world too, it isn't all just Islamic bombers.

Not caring about pollution is equivalent to violently assaulting an artist for a homoerotic picture?

Some desperate spinning going on here folks.

1258 albusteve  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:43:05pm

re: #1251 McSpiff

Well, it only takes one rabid dog. So I'd assume they're at least as successful as a rapid dog and say one.

agreed...the other 300m just rub it in...in other words, it's not the numbers, it's the effectiveness of the few

1259 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:43:41pm

re: #1235 SanFranciscoZionist

Bingo. Pretending that Islam has violence in its genes and Christianity does not, merely based on the current situations, involves ignoring a hell of a lot of history.

I wouldn't mind ignoring history and focusing on the present, except that the 'violence in the genes' argument always seems to go back to the seventh century lickety-split.

:)
Very well put. Personally, if was to claim superiority for any religion based on History (I don't), Greek paganism (and its Roman cousin) would get the big prize. Cradle of Western civilization and all that. A relatively tiny number of people who jump-started pretty much all arts, sciences, philosophy, politics, you name it.

Then Christianity enters the picture, and what happens? 1000 years of near-stagnation (with Islam arguably kicking European ass in poetry and mathematics), which only ends when the religious institutions are sufficiently weakened and... classical Greek and Roman values make a come back in the Renaissance.

Zeus is the man.

1260 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:43:48pm

re: #1257 Bagua

So somehow comparing this to the shooting of an abortion doctor is too far, but comparing it denial of pollution isn't far enough. Do I literally need to find a case for you where an artist was assaulted (but not critically!) for making Jesus look like a homosexual?

1261 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:45:51pm

re: #1255 McSpiff

Well, I've seen Stanley defend gay rights here countless times. So I have my own bias and didn't do quite as much nipple gazing into that one comment. But I commend you on being able to write a critique 4x longer than the original comment.

Well I commend you for speaking for someone else. I addressed my comment to Stanley and he can respond for himself.

Your entire approach here is Tu quoque. To be clear, are you saying that they were justified in attacking the artist giving the lecture because his presentation had gay content?

1262 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:48:51pm

re: #1254 Bagua

With the obvious implication that it was understandable that they rushed the stage and violently attacked the artist.

Art depicting Gay themes is most certainly not a justification for attacking artists. It is indeed homophobic.

You, in the beginning of posting this issue, omitted the homosexuality depiction of Mohammed.

Any religious person seeing their Prophet/Jesus/God depicted that way would (my word) FREAK. A religious person I'm saying. Religious homophobia - fact.

1263 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:50:15pm

re: #1261 Bagua

Well I commend you for speaking for someone else. I addressed my comment to Stanley and he can respond for himself.

Your entire approach here is Tu quoque. To be clear, are you saying that they were justified in attacking the artist giving the lecture because his presentation had gay content?

In this specific incident, yes. My entire approach is Tu quque because we're discussing simple assault and battery. I've seen people head butted over pizza pops before. If Muslim terror attacks have descended to the level of football hooligans the war on terror is won.

1264 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:51:11pm

re: #1261 Bagua

Well I commend you for speaking for someone else. I addressed my comment to Stanley and he can respond for himself.

Your entire approach here is Tu quoque. To be clear, are you saying that they were justified in attacking the artist giving the lecture because his presentation had gay content?

As well, I downdinged you for a pointless attack and then you addressed a comment to me.

1265 McSpiff  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:52:32pm

Night for me, later all.

1266 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:52:49pm

FUCK.

me too! :)

1267 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:53:09pm

re: #978 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #947 Reginald Perrin

Honey will get you more than vinegar...
Just saying!

1268 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:53:35pm

re: #1262 Stanley Sea

You, in the beginning of posting this issue, omitted the homosexuality depiction of Mohammed.

Any religious person seeing their Prophet/Jesus/God depicted that way would (my word) FREAK. A religious person I'm saying. Religious homophobia - fact.

Great, so if in posting about a violent rape I omitted the part about the victim dressing provocatively you would fault that as well?

I'm sorry, but art, no matter how offensive, does not justify violence.

These people did not spontaneously "freak", that artist lives under police protection due to death threats and they clearly went to his lecture intending to riot.

1269 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:56:20pm

re: #1268 Bagua

Great, so if in posting about a violent rape I omitted the part about the victim dressing provocatively you would fault that as well?

I'm sorry, but art, no matter how offensive, does not justify violence.

These people did not spontaneously "freak", that artist lives under police protection due to death threats and they clearly went to his lecture intending to riot.

Bagua, you're a pretty reasonable guy, but I don't see what's the thesis are you are trying to defend here.

1270 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 10:58:48pm

re: #1264 McSpiff

As well, I downdinged you for a pointless attack and then you addressed a comment to me.

Yes, and I addressed my comment to your reaction to find out why. And my comment was not an "attack", I like Stanley and we are on friendly terms. I asked him that pointed question to make him think about what he was saying and to make my point. No need for hostility.

Lot's of artists are gay, lots of art has homoerotic themes, including much religious art. While everyone is entitled an opinion, absolutely no-one is entitled to physically assault someone because them showed a "gay" picture, especially at a forum addressing free speech.

1271 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:03:31pm

re: #1269 Nimed

Bagua, you're a pretty reasonable guy, but I don't see what's the thesis are you are trying to defend here.

I'm saying that there was absolutely no justification is attacking that artist, a man who lives under police protection in fear of his life for drawing a cartoon. There was no justification when he drew a picture of Mohamed as a dog, and there is no justification when he showed a film by an Iranian artist depicting Mohamed as gay.

If this was an isolated incident, I could care less, but there is a pattern of this behaviour in Europe and this is only one of many such incidents. Not so much a thesis as an observation of reality.

1272 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:07:19pm

re: #1271 Bagua

I'm saying that there was absolutely no justification is attacking that artist, a man who lives under police protection in fear of his life for drawing a cartoon. There was no justification when he drew a picture of Mohamed as a dog, and there is no justification when he showed a film by an Iranian artist depicting Mohamed as gay.

If this was an isolated incident, I could care less, but there is a pattern of this behaviour in Europe and this is only one of many such incidents. Not so much a thesis as an observation of reality.

If that's all you're saying, it's hard to disagree. I think no one denies (at least I don't) that violent episodes committed in the name of Islam outnumber those of other religions.

1273 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:11:30pm

Note also, that this is far from an isolated incident.

It may be Europe's most liberal city - but if you are gay, you had best beware

Surrounded, Mr Crain was kicked to the ground by the gang and ended up in hospital with a broken nose and badly bruised face.

His attackers were Moroccan youths, blamed by Dutch gay rights groups for a disturbing rise of gay-bashing, as conservative Islamic culture clashes with Dutch liberalism.

For the first time, the Amsterdam Tourist Board has issued a warning to gay visitors to be careful in the city. In the first country to legalise homosexual marriage, gays are increasingly fearful of holding hands in public. Some have been chased out of their houses and middle-class gays are moving to rural areas for safety.

Intolerance by muslims of homosexuality is a growing problem in Europe. I've read a book on the subject. Anyone who seeks to justify or rationalise violence by saying the attacker was enraged by teh Gay is going to get some disapproval from me. Period.

1274 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:15:38pm

re: #1273 Bagua

Note also, that this is far from an isolated incident.

It may be Europe's most liberal city - but if you are gay, you had best beware

Intolerance by muslims of homosexuality is a growing problem in Europe. I've read a book on the subject. Anyone who seeks to justify or rationalise violence by saying the attacker was enraged by teh Gay is going to get some disapproval from me. Period.

We Americans don't resort to outsourcing to keep the gay population in their place.///

1275 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:16:29pm

re: #1272 Nimed

If that's all you're saying, it's hard to disagree. I think no one denies (at least I don't) that violent episodes committed in the name of Islam outnumber those of other religions.

Yes, that is a big part of what I am saying, and this is occurring in a liberal western nation in Europe. What I saw in that video was intolerable, and I have seen many such videos and read countless similar reports.

1276 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:16:37pm

re: #1267 Floral Giraffe

re: #947 Reginald Perrin

Honey will get you more than vinegar...
Just saying!

*whack!* you are such a tease!

1277 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:16:38pm

I know it's 2:15 AM EDT, but why is this place so dead? Little Green Tumbleweeds are starting to blow in!

1278 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:17:18pm

re: #1277 JasonA

I know it's 2:15 AM EDT, but why is this place so dead? Little Green Tumbleweeds are starting to blow in!

Well you sort of answered your own question there ;)

1279 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:20:03pm

re: #1278 LudwigVanQuixote

Well you sort of answered your own question there ;)

Oh I've seen this place hoppin' at this time of night. Has Blade taken out most of our vampire population or something?

1280 Jaerik  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:20:13pm

Can we at least agree that the principle problem does not appear to be any innate, inherent difference in the content or teachings of each religion, but rather in their real-world relationships with government?

I am no religious scholar, but I can rattle off a number of instances in my head from the Old Testament condoning infanticide, genocide, and a whole host of very nasty things. Easily comparable to any of the darker parts of the Qur'an.

The difference is, the rise of largely secular government in the West has forced the dominant religion (Christianity) to paper over the older, perhaps nastier parts of the religion and instead focus on the good parts. By and large, Islam is currently situated primarily in a part of the world which, for various historical reasons, never made the Enlightenment transition to secular government.

Divisive politics is a very lucrative game. There's a lot of money and power at stake, not just internationally but domestically as well. If you have this political systems where there's no separation of church and state, the religion will inevitably be brought into the fight, and you end up breeding a feedback loop where the nastier the interpretation, the more politically pointed and useful it can be to those in power.

1281 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:24:27pm

re: #1279 JasonA

Oh I've seen this place hoppin' at this time of night. Has Blade taken out most of our vampire population or something?

I kicked Blade's ass.

1282 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:25:12pm

re: #1263 McSpiff

In this specific incident, yes. My entire approach is Tu quque because we're discussing simple assault and battery. I've seen people head butted over pizza pops before. If Muslim terror attacks have descended to the level of football hooligans the war on terror is won.

No I'm sorry McSpiff, this is not at all "simple assault and battery." This was a public lecture at an European University on the subject of free speech, given by an artist who lives in fear of his life under death threats. There was a mob there chanting Allah Akba, rushing the stage and creating a riot.

It was obviously pre-meditated, they were not there to hear his lecture, they were there to silence him. I find this chilling and frightening. I also assert that the "gay Mohamed" pretext was utterly irrelevant and the keffiah wearing attacker would have made his attack regardless of the content of the lecture.

1283 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:25:44pm

re: #1280 Jaerik

Hm. Was a looser interpretation of the Bible a result of secular gov't or one of the causes of it? My Enlightenment history's a little rusty so it's a serious question.

1284 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:27:34pm

re: #1283 JasonA

Hm. Was a looser interpretation of the Bible a result of secular gov't or one of the causes of it? My Enlightenment history's a little rusty so it's a serious question.


re: #1280 Jaerik

Can we at least agree that the principle problem does not appear to be any innate, inherent difference in the content or teachings of each religion, but rather in their real-world relationships with government?

I am no religious scholar, but I can rattle off a number of instances in my head from the Old Testament condoning infanticide, genocide, and a whole host of very nasty things. Easily comparable to any of the darker parts of the Qur'an.

The difference is, the rise of largely secular government in the West has forced the dominant religion (Christianity) to paper over the older, perhaps nastier parts of the religion and instead focus on the good parts. By and large, Islam is currently situated primarily in a part of the world which, for various historical reasons, never made the Enlightenment transition to secular government.

Divisive politics is a very lucrative game. There's a lot of money and power at stake, not just internationally but domestically as well. If you have this political systems where there's no separation of church and state, the religion will inevitably be brought into the fight, and you end up breeding a feedback loop where the nastier the interpretation, the more politically pointed and useful it can be to those in power.

Exactly. To go looking for the root sources of differential religious violence in the religious texts is a red herring.

My personal theory of religion is summarized in 1259 - essentially, it claims that Zeus rules.

1285 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:27:40pm

re: #1282 Bagua

Sad how we humans can go batshit over insults about the fictions we've chosen to believe are true.

1286 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:28:04pm

re: #1284 Nimed

Exactly. To go looking for the root sources of differential religious violence in the religious texts is a red herring.

My personal theory of religion is summarized in 1259 - essentially, it claims that Zeus rules.

Odin is displeased.

1287 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:28:26pm

re: #1286 JasonA

Odin is displeased.

No Valhalla for him!

1288 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:29:38pm

re: #1286 JasonA

Odin is displeased.

Norse paganism - definitely not a religion of peace.

1289 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:30:07pm

re: #1276 LudwigVanQuixote

*whack!* you are such a tease!

No, never a tease.
Promises, only.

1290 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:30:13pm

re: #1285 JasonA

Sad how we humans can go batshit over insults about the fictions we've chosen to believe are true.

Tragically sad.

1291 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:30:46pm

re: #1288 Nimed

Norse paganism - definitely not a religion of peace.

And no one would imagine claiming otherwise.

Especially not this guy:

Youtube Video
1292 Varek Raith  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:31:08pm

re: #1288 Nimed

Norse paganism - definitely not a religion of peace.

I gots me a hot Valkyrie, what do I care???

1293 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:31:43pm

re: #1292 Varek Raith

Do you share? Hot is good!

1294 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:32:20pm

re: #1290 Bagua

Tragically sad.

Honestly, I don't think we atheists sit in our rooms and wish really really hard that people would stop believing in this stuff. I mean, sure it would be nice, but I'd settle for not pushing it in our people's lives.

1295 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:33:07pm

re: #1291 JasonA

And no one would imagine claiming otherwise.

Especially not this guy:


[Video]

That video rocks! :D

1296 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:34:10pm

re: #1295 Nimed

That video rocks! :D

Beowulf looks like him.

1297 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:35:28pm

re: #1294 JasonA

Honestly, I don't think we atheists sit in our rooms and wish really really hard that people would stop believing in this stuff. I mean, sure it would be nice, but I'd settle for not pushing it in our people's lives.

At the risk of sounding too optimistic, I think we have the wind on our backs when it comes to (absence of) religion.

1298 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:38:04pm

re: #1297 Nimed

At the risk of sounding too optimistic, I think we have the wind on our backs when it comes to (absence of) religion.

I think where you live might play a big part in your perception of that. I live in the NY area, and yeah, religion's no big thing here. Then I see a video like the one at the top of the page and remember that Wyoming has as much say in our Senate as my state does.

1299 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:38:14pm

re: #1291 JasonA

And no one would imagine claiming otherwise.

Especially not this guy:


[Video]

Little known fact: Techno Viking has his very own hunting dog.

1300 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:39:25pm

re: #1297 Nimed

At the risk of sounding too optimistic, I think we have the wind on our backs when it comes to (absence of) religion.

And gay marriage. And abortion. And basically all social liberal causes.

Youtube Video

Not so sure about the other causes.

1301 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:42:00pm

re: #1300 Nimed

I could listen to Republican candidates if their social positions would change. The Tories, for example, seems so much more reasonable than our Conservatives. Hell, they seem more reasonable than their own Labour party.

1302 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:42:35pm

re: #1298 JasonA

I think where you live might play a big part in your perception of that. I live in the NY area, and yeah, religion's no big thing here. Then I see a video like the one at the top of the page and remember that Wyoming has as much say in our Senate as my state does.

Yeah, I live in NYC too, and it does help. But numbers are on our side.
[Link: religions.pewforum.org...]

1303 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:45:11pm

re: #1301 JasonA

I could listen to Republican candidates if their social positions would change. The Tories, for example, seems so much more reasonable than our Conservatives. Hell, they seem more reasonable than their own Labour party.

Tell me about it. The things that come out of the mouth of the conservative candidate in the UK are pretty amazing.

1304 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:46:47pm

re: #1294 JasonA

Honestly, I don't think we atheists sit in our rooms and wish really really hard that people would stop believing in this stuff. I mean, sure it would be nice, but I'd settle for not pushing it in our people's lives.

Yep, and I'm happy to let anyone have their beliefs and faiths, and even express their beliefs no matter how ridiculous they appear to me. But I draw the line when they use violence and intimidation to silence those they regard as heretics. Throughout history this has been a plague on mankind, and not unique to Islam by any means.

But in modern day Europe, it is a growing problem associated with those who identify as muslims, and their favourite victims appear to be Gays, Jews, Police, Fire-fighters, Artists and other innocents.

1305 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:48:57pm

re: #1301 JasonA

I could listen to Republican candidates if their social positions would change. The Tories, for example, seems so much more reasonable than our Conservatives. Hell, they seem more reasonable than their own Labour party.

I was actually pretty fond of the Lib Dems (except for the relative hostility toward the US - which is really a big no-no).

1306 Bagua  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:50:57pm

re: #1301 JasonA

I could listen to Republican candidates if their social positions would change. The Tories, for example, seems so much more reasonable than our Conservatives. Hell, they seem more reasonable than their own Labour party.

They don't call Cameron's re-branding of the Tory party the Not-Conservative party for nothing you know. He made a concerted effort to court the Lib-Dim voters, a policy that backfired spectacularly.

1307 Mocking Jay  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:54:26pm

re: #1305 Nimed

I was actually pretty fond of the Lib Dems (except for the relative hostility toward the US - which is really a big no-no).

It's weird having conversations about this with other Americans, most of whom don't realize that these labels don't translate perfectly. No, the Lib Dems aren't the hard left you'd think they are. But I don't expect most people I meet to know anything about our political system much less Britain's.
re: #1306 Bagua

They don't call Cameron's re-branding of the Tory party the Not-Conservative party for nothing you know. He made a concerted effort to court the Lib-Dim voters, a policy that backfired spectacularly.

Seriously. the Lib Dems were the big winners this election, it seems. Was 'Lib Dim' a typo, btw? :)

1308 Nimed  Tue, May 11, 2010 11:56:24pm

This poem rocks:

But the Tobacco Show Owner has come to the door and stands there now.
I look at him, straining my half turned neck,
Straining my half-blind soul.
He'll die and so will I.
He'll leave his signboard, I'll leave my poems.
After a while his signboard will perish too, and so will my poems.
A little later the street will die where his signboard hung,
And so will the language my poems were written in.
Then the spinning planet where all this happened will die,
In other satellites in other systems something like people
Will go on making things like poems and living under things like signboards,
Always one against another,
Always one thing as useless as another,
Always the impossible thing as useless as the real thing,
Always the fundamental mystery as certain as the sleeping surface mystery,
Always this thing or that, or neither one nor the other.
But now a man's gone into the Tobacco Shop (to buy tobacco?)
And the plausible reality of it all suddenly hits me.
I'm getting up, full of energy, convinced, human,
And about to write these lines, which say the opposite.

1309 Nimed  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:01:28am

re: #1307 JasonA

It's weird having conversations about this with other Americans, most of whom don't realize that these labels don't translate perfectly. No, the Lib Dems aren't the hard left you'd think they are. But I don't expect most people I meet to know anything about our political system much less Britain's.

You dare you sir! :)

Hey, I've lived a relatively large part of my life in Portugal, and witnessed the Socialist Party privatize most major State companies. You don't need to warn me about how misleading labels can be.

But the Liberal Democrats did run on a platform of closer integration to the EU (which I favor), and of not necessarily supporting some of the official US positions in international affairs.

1310 Mocking Jay  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:03:03am

re: #1309 Nimed

Eh, was this a great week for the "closer integration to the EU" argument?

1311 Nimed  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:04:29am

re: #1310 JasonA

Yeah, well... Taking the long view and all that.

1312 Bagua  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:06:22am

re: #1307 JasonA

Seriously. the Lib Dems were the big winners this election, it seems. Was 'Lib Dim' a typo, btw? :)

Oh absolutely they were the big winners, and if they succeed in pushing PR they have scored a lasting, huge goal. I meant it backfired for the Torries as Cameron failed to win a majority and now has an unstable government with a party that is far from a natural ally. This "win" by the Cleggerons is a blow to Cameron and will likely result in his demise as leader of the Tory Party. Both Clegg and Cameron have demonstrated that they will sell out their respective bases in order to achieve the trappings of power. Both will pay the price.

The term Lib-Dim is a non-affectionate nickname, like the Not-Conservative party. I hold the entire slate in contempt, Parliament has become an increasingly irrelevant circus show. Blair got the ball rolling with the personality politics and Brown and Cameron are his imitators. Two cheeks of the same arse.

1313 Nimed  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:06:26am

re: #1310 JasonA

By the way, that was a (translated) poem by Fernando Pessoa. Does the guy rock or what?

1314 Mocking Jay  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:07:32am

re: #1311 Nimed

Yeah, well... Taking the long view and all that.

I know, I know. I kid because I care. I really don't have an opinion on the issue. A Republican friend asked me what I thought of Kagan today and I told him the same thing. It's okay to admit you have an insufficient grasp of the facts to have an opinion on the issue.

1315 Mocking Jay  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:09:11am

re: #1313 Nimed

By the way, that was a (translated) poem by Fernando Pessoa. Does the guy rock or what?

It made look at the cigarette in my hand :)

1316 Mocking Jay  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:10:30am

re: #1312 Bagua

Fair enough. Isn't tossing Labour out a big win, though?

1317 Bagua  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:10:35am

re: #1310 JasonA

Eh, was this a great week for the "closer integration to the EU" argument?

The Lib-Dems are definitely Europhiles. Their presence in coalition blunts any hope that Cameron will reveal some secret Eurosceptic affinity. This is exactly what cost Cameron the election.

1318 Mocking Jay  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:13:17am

re: #1317 Bagua

The Lib-Dems are definitely Europhiles. Their presence in coalition blunts any hope that Cameron will reveal some secret Eurosceptic affinity. This is exactly what cost Cameron the election.

So you're saying he would've performed better had he taken a harder stance against integration? Seriously, I'm learning here. This is good stuff.

1319 Nimed  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:17:30am

re: #1318 JasonA

So you're saying he would've performed better had he taken a harder stance against integration? Seriously, I'm learning here. This is good stuff.

I disagree with Bagua. Most of the lost Eurosceptic conservative votes went to the UK Independence Party, which only got 3% of the votes. And, of course, they would have lost some centrist voters had Cameron courted the UKIP base.

1320 Bagua  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:19:43am

re: #1316 JasonA

Fair enough. Isn't tossing Labour out a big win, though?

Nope. From a conservative/Eurosceptic point of view (different from American conservatism as you know) it would have been far better had Brown continued with a weak government that would fall within the year. Cameron would have been replaced with someone who appealed to core conservative values and the end result could have been a strong Tory government that could last a term or two after the inevitable Labour trainwreck.

Instead, we have the nitwit Cameron playing Prime Minister, but gelded by the Lib-Dems. Thus we will witness the wrong train-wreck and the way will be paved for a Labour return when the Cleggeron farce collapses.

1321 Bagua  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:24:28am

re: #1319 Nimed

I disagree with Bagua. Most of the lost Eurosceptic conservative votes went to the UK Independence Party, which only got 3% of the votes. And, of course, they would have lost some centrist voters had Cameron courted the UKIP base.

No, you don't disagree with me at all. It was exactly the UKIP effect which cost Cameron the election. Had he not gone back on his promise for a referendum on the EU constitution Lisbon Treaty, UKIP would have stepped aside for this election and Cameron would have won the majority easily. That is strictly counting UKIP votes he would have gained, not even considering the many voters who chose none of the above.

Alternatively, his gamble to appeal to the Lib-Dem voters backfired, surprise-surprise they voted Lib-Dem and Cameron gave it all up for nothing.

1322 Bagua  Wed, May 12, 2010 12:37:23am

re: #1318 JasonA

So you're saying he would've performed better had he taken a harder stance against integration? Seriously, I'm learning here. This is good stuff.

To be specific, there were 23 seats in which the UKIP vote was larger than the winning majority. That would have given the Tories a majority. That is four seats over the baseline of 325.

If one includes the BNP, this brings the number up to 41 seats. However, the BNP votes would more likely go to Labour, but the eurosceptic component may have voted Tory on this one issue alone whereas the Labour types would have stayed with BNP, and in any case the BNP did not offer to step aside.

(Time to turn in, thanks for the chat)

1323 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, May 12, 2010 1:03:53am

re: #1289 Floral Giraffe

No, never a tease.
Promises, only.

Lol, I told you, I am taken!


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