Must-See: 60 Minutes on the Deepwater Horizon Blowout

Environment • Views: 4,067

This 60 Minutes segment is gripping, and horrifying, as the story of survivor Mike Williams brings to light new information about the Deepwater Horizon disaster, showing the astounding negligence of BP officials; they brushed off serious problems with the “annular seal” (a rubber gasket that seals off the top of the well), leading to a cascading series of failures.

And there’s a kicker at the end; BP is currently operating another drilling platform in the Gulf (the Atlantis) that by some accounts is ripe for another massive failure.

60 Minutes Video

60 Minutes Video

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348 comments
1 b_sharp  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:02:30pm

All I can say is, it is about time companies like BP are held accountable for their bean counting.

2 Nick Morgan  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:03:47pm

Considering what the BP CEO has said I don't think BP has any credibility and I hope they pay out the wazoo.

3 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:05:30pm

This may very well put BP completely out of business.

4 freetoken  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:07:54pm

re: #2 Nick Morgan

There is probably plenty of blame to go around.

Let us hope that the publicity this event is getting will convince the public that oil problems just aren't over there (the mysterious land outside our borders from whence all sorts of goodies flow), but that we have problems too.

Let us hope too that the laissez-faire world view espoused by The Sarah, Rubio, et. al. is exposed for the blind-sighted-ness that it is.

5 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:08:08pm

Repost about the 60 minute report:

Ooops

Williams says, during a test, they closed the gasket. But while it was shut tight, a crewman on deck accidentally nudged a joystick, applying hundreds of thousands of pounds of force, and moving 15 feet of drill pipe through the closed blowout preventer. Later, a man monitoring drilling fluid rising to the top made a troubling find.

"He discovered chunks of rubber in the drilling fluid. He thought it was important enough to gather this double handful of chunks of rubber and bring them into the driller shack. I recall asking the supervisor if this was out of the ordinary. And he says, 'Oh, it's no big deal.' And I thought, 'How can it be not a big deal? There's chunks of our seal is now missing,'" Williams told Pelley.

And, Williams says, he knew about another problem with the blowout preventer.

The BOP is operated from the surface by wires connected to two control pods; one is a back-up. Williams says one pod lost some of its function weeks before.

So the subsequent pressure tests were unreliable, and the BP executive forced a rush to displace the mud with seawater without the third concrete plug based upon those tests.

We know what happened next, the seawater couldn't hold down the undetected pressure and the initial plugs failed, the blowout Preventer then fails as it never worked in the first place, nor could it be activated.

Looks like Transwestern and BP are both culpable here, not so much Haliburton, if at all, and even Cameron is off the hook if this proves out.

6 b_sharp  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:08:23pm

re: #3 Charles

This may very well put BP completely out of business.

That will be a problem for the UK's faltering economy, but it may just be enough to give a heads up to the other large oil companies.

7 Nick Morgan  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:08:54pm

re: #3 Charles

I would not like that to happen but if they cannot exercise some responsibility, so be it.

8 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:09:17pm

re: #3 Charles

This may very well put BP completely out of business.

It should start by kicking them out of US waters.

9 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:10:18pm

re: #3 Charles

I certainly hope so.

10 Lemon  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:11:56pm

Watching the videos now. Thanks for keeping on this story, Charles.

In light of this, it amazes me how I used to be part of the Drill Here, Drill Now crowd. I hadn't realized how little safety technology existed for deepwater wells like the one in this case.

This is a disaster of astounding proportions, and I hope that it will be an impetus for the United States and the world to adopt alternative energy sources sooner. The reason we're drilling 35,000 feet down is because the easy-to-reach oil is gone now. Yes, it could very well cost more for energy, but if it avoids the danger of incidents like the Deepwater Horizon, I'd happily pay up.

There are myriad reasons to get off of oil, but the environmental impact certainly is at the forefront right now.

11 freetoken  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:12:39pm

re: #3 Charles

It is a very large international company, and even if Congress somehow can find a way to make BP pay more than $75 million to cover the costs, in the end everyone needs oil, and there are only 5 major private oil companies in the world (with lots of smaller players.)

Chevron is in its own political battles in South America (due to its purchase of Texaco in part).

It will be interesting to watch how this plays out in the political arena, but for sure the Drill Here Drill Now folk look pretty well compromised.

12 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:14:25pm

I saw it on the broadcast tonight and thought it was an absolutely awesome piece of journalism...

B.P. is going to have a large job trying to live this one down, investigative journalism still has a lot of power for good in this country, and least when it is done properly.

13 Virginia Plain  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:14:33pm

re: #3 Charles

This may very well put BP completely out of business.

Pardon me for being cynical, but I don't think that will happen. Exxon recovered from the Exxon-Valdez disaster with record profits.

14 MandyManners  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:15:23pm

What were the regulations in March, 2009?

15 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:15:35pm

re: #12 ausador

I saw it on the broadcast tonight and thought it was an absolutely awesome piece of journalism...

B.P. is going to have a large job trying to live this one down, investigative journalism still has a lot of power for good in this country, and least when it is done properly.

Time to crank up a new name and logo.

16 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:15:38pm

On the advice of their lawyers, nobody is ever going to admit to guilt. The price tag is too big. Guilt will have to be found by investigation.

17 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:17:48pm

re: #5 Bagua

Repost about the 60 minute report:

Ooops

Williams says, during a test, they closed the gasket. But while it was shut tight, a crewman on deck accidentally nudged a joystick, applying hundreds of thousands of pounds of force, and moving 15 feet of drill pipe through the closed blowout preventer. Later, a man monitoring drilling fluid rising to the top made a troubling find.

"He discovered chunks of rubber in the drilling fluid. He thought it was important enough to gather this double handful of chunks of rubber and bring them into the driller shack. I recall asking the supervisor if this was out of the ordinary. And he says, 'Oh, it's no big deal.' And I thought, 'How can it be not a big deal? There's chunks of our seal is now missing,'" Williams told Pelley.

And, Williams says, he knew about another problem with the blowout preventer.

The BOP is operated from the surface by wires connected to two control pods; one is a back-up. Williams says one pod lost some of its function weeks before.

So the subsequent pressure tests were unreliable, and the BP executive forced a rush to displace the mud with seawater without the third concrete plug based upon those tests.

We know what happened next, the seawater couldn't hold down the undetected pressure and the initial plugs failed, the blowout Preventer then fails as it never worked in the first place, nor could it be activated.

Looks like Transwestern and BP are both culpable here, not so much Haliburton, if at all, and even Cameron is off the hook if this proves out.

Hey Bagua.

My husband, who is a mud engineer, tells me he sees pieces of rubber all the time; that these rubber pieces in the BOP are very thick, and reinforced, and the shearing of a few chunks of it isn't a problem. Also, that they are designed so that pipe will move through them, so moving pipe through them was not in itself odd or unusual.

The REAL problem in this thing was in the 2nd part of the report, about the cement plugs. That second part of the report confirms the events that the Roi heard a week or so ago. The mud was the ONLY thing keeping pressure on the oil and gas and keeping it out of the riser (pipe). When they circulated the mud out before putting in the final plug - that sealed their fate.The blowout would not have occurred if they had taken the time to set that final plug before circulating the mud out, and the engineer in the 60 minutes report confirmed that.

The original plan was to do set that plug properly. It was BP who decided to do it differently to save a few days time (and money). It was BP who "won" that argument. This blowout is BP's fault. They will continue to try to claim that it was Transocean's fault or that the BOP was to blame. Not true. BP made the fatal decision when they circulated the mud out before putting in the final plug.

18 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:18:12pm

re: #12 ausador

I saw it on the broadcast tonight and thought it was an absolutely awesome piece of journalism...

B.P. is going to have a large job trying to live this one down, investigative journalism still has a lot of power for good in this country, and least when it is done properly.

What about Transwestern? If they concealed the damage to the annular seal from BP then they caused the accident. BP was relying on false tests, possibly without their knowledge.

19 freetoken  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:18:28pm

There was a study released at the end of 2007 about the big 5 private oil companies and how the business is handling its future. It painted a not-so-rosy picture of the largest players in the industry:

Baker Institute study shows 'Big Five' oil companies limit exploration

20 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:21:37pm

I wonder if Rush Limbaugh will admit he was wrong to blame "environmental terrorists" for this disaster?

21 bratwurst  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:23:35pm

re: #20 Reginald Perrin

I wonder if Rush Limbaugh will admit he was wrong to blame "environmental terrorists" for this disaster?

I liked his minimization of the disaster better, stating that "the oil is just as natural as the water".

22 MandyManners  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:24:52pm

Yeah, shut it down.

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:25:22pm

re: #20 Reginald Perrin

I wonder if Rush Limbaugh will admit he was wrong to blame "environmental terrorists" for this disaster?

No. He says whatever occurs to him, and he never looks back. And no one holds him to account.

24 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:26:04pm

re: #21 bratwurst

I liked his minimization of the disaster better, stating that "the oil is just as natural as the water".

That's true. And if I walked up to Rush and injected him with a syringe full of air, the air would be just as natural as the blood. But it would still kill him.

25 SpaceJesus  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:26:17pm

debbie schlussel loses mind over miss michigan being from dearborn


[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

26 MandyManners  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:26:17pm

Now, will someone tell me what to say to the dozens of BP employees I encounter every day?

27 Kragar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:26:34pm

Oh for fuck's sake,

Catholics fight move to deny schooling to children of lesbians, gays

Progressive Catholic groups vented outrage Friday over the decision of a Roman Catholic school in Massachusetts to rescind the admission of an 8-year-old student because his parents are lesbians.

"The idea that a child might be punished because he does not live with his two biologic parents is antithetical to notions of Christian charity and Catholic social justice," said Patrick Whelan, president of Catholic Democrats, in a statement Friday.

Other liberal Catholic and gay groups issued similar statements Friday, responding to news reports this week that a child accepted to St. Paul Elementary School in Hingham, Massachusetts, for the fall was told he couldn't enroll after the school learned that his parents are gay.

In addition to pressuring the Massachusetts school to reverse its decision and accept the student, progressive Catholic activists are attempting to do something much more dramatic: get the Archdiocese of Boston, which includes the Hingham school, to set a precedent for how the American church treats students with gay parents.

28 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:26:50pm

re: #13 Virginia Plain

Pardon me for being cynical, but I don't think that will happen. Exxon recovered from the Exxon-Valdez disaster with record profits.

This makes the Exxon Valdez look like a dripping faucet.

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:27:09pm

re: #24 SanFranciscoZionist

That's true. And if I walked up to Rush and injected him with a syringe full of air, the air would be just as natural as the blood. But it would still kill him.

Just to be clear, this is intended to be an analogy, not a threat. I have no designs on Rush's life.

30 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:27:22pm

re: #17 reine.de.tout

Hey Bagua.

My husband, who is a mud engineer, tells me he sees pieces of rubber all the time; that these rubber pieces in the BOP are very thick, and reinforced, and the shearing of a few chunks of it isn't a problem. Also, that they are designed so that pipe will move through them, so moving pipe through them was not in itself odd or unusual.

The REAL problem in this thing was in the 2nd part of the report, about the cement plugs. That second part of the report confirms the events that the Roi heard a week or so ago. The mud was the ONLY thing keeping pressure on the oil and gas and keeping it out of the riser (pipe). When they circulated the mud out before putting in the final plug - that sealed their fate.The blowout would not have occurred if they had taken the time to set that final plug before circulating the mud out, and the engineer in the 60 minutes report confirmed that.

The original plan was to do set that plug properly. It was BP who decided to do it differently to save a few days time (and money). It was BP who "won" that argument. This blowout is BP's fault. They will continue to try to claim that it was Transocean's fault or that the BOP was to blame. Not true. BP made the fatal decision when they circulated the mud out before putting in the final plug.

Hi my Queen, thank you for that. It certainly does look like displacing the mud at that stage set off the blow out. The guy making these allegations was a Chief Electronics technician and likely does not understand the whole process.

31 MandyManners  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:27:40pm

re: #26 MandyManners

Now, will someone tell me what to say to the dozens of BP employees I encounter every day?

You know, the folks who earn their living-wages from B.P.?

32 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:28:36pm

re: #17 reine.de.tout

Hey Bagua.

My husband, who is a mud engineer, tells me he sees pieces of rubber all the time; that these rubber pieces in the BOP are very thick, and reinforced, and the shearing of a few chunks of it isn't a problem. Also, that they are designed so that pipe will move through them, so moving pipe through them was not in itself odd or unusual.

The REAL problem in this thing was in the 2nd part of the report, about the cement plugs. That second part of the report confirms the events that the Roi heard a week or so ago. The mud was the ONLY thing keeping pressure on the oil and gas and keeping it out of the riser (pipe). When they circulated the mud out before putting in the final plug - that sealed their fate.The blowout would not have occurred if they had taken the time to set that final plug before circulating the mud out, and the engineer in the 60 minutes report confirmed that.

The original plan was to do set that plug properly. It was BP who decided to do it differently to save a few days time (and money). It was BP who "won" that argument. This blowout is BP's fault. They will continue to try to claim that it was Transocean's fault or that the BOP was to blame. Not true. BP made the fatal decision when they circulated the mud out before putting in the final plug.

An addition: The Roi also tells me it is not unusual for one of the control pods on the BOP's to be out of commission at different times. That's why there are TWO of them. If one goes out, operations continue and the out of commission control pod is repaired at the first available opportunity.

They were using a synthetic based mud; cement takes longer to harden with synthetic based mud than with oil or water based mud, and BP knows this. They should have waited at least 8-10 hours longer before attempting anything.

Again, the fault here is with BP, and their decision to replace the mud with seawater before setting that final seal. The test results apparently DID show a problem with the earlier cement jobs; given that, they should have set that final seal before circulating the mud out. BP didn't want to take the time, and killed 11 people, and polluted the Gulf of Mexico. It is their fault.

33 McSpiff  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:28:49pm

re: #26 MandyManners

Now, will someone tell me what to say to the dozens of BP employees I encounter every day?

I've been told here several times that no one has the right to a job. "Sorry you worked for a scummy company" might work?

34 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:29:37pm

re: #25 SpaceJesus

debbie schlussel loses mind over miss michigan being from dearborn

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

Debbie Schlussel lost her mind many, many years ago. And Miss Michigan is a lovely young woman.

35 Spare O'Lake  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:29:58pm

re: #3 Charles

This may very well put BP completely out of business.

It'll be interesting to see if the liability cap of $75M holds after this. I seriously doubt it - in which case bankruptcy may not be too far behind.

36 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:30:11pm

re: #21 bratwurst

I liked his minimization of the disaster better, stating that "the oil is just as natural as the water".

How about Fox News anchor Brit Hume claiming that there isn't much oil leaking into the gulf.
"Where's the oil?" "

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:30:41pm

re: #31 MandyManners

You know, the folks who earn their living-wages from B.P.?

"I'm so sorry. Are you OK?"

38 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:30:44pm

re: #30 Bagua

Hi my Queen, thank you for that. It certainly does look like displacing the mud at that stage set off the blow out. The guy making these allegations was a Chief Electronics technician and likely does not understand the whole process.

Exactly.
He knows his job and knows it very well, but not the rest of it. The press are having problems finding people to talk to them, I'm sure, so they are talking to whoever they can find and assuming those people know the whole process, when that is not necessarily true.

BP is spinning, spinning, spinning, trying to make this out to be somebody else's responsibility or at least some sort of shared responsibility. I just don't see that it is anything but BP's fault.

39 MandyManners  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:30:48pm

re: #33 McSpiff

I've been told here several times that no one has the right to a job. "Sorry you worked for a scummy company" might work?

And, I give you a great-big fucking "F".

40 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:30:53pm

re: #20 Reginald Perrin

Good luck, with that!

41 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:30:54pm

re: #20 Reginald Perrin

I wonder if Rush Limbaugh will admit he was wrong to blame "environmental terrorists" for this disaster?

Environmental terrorists? I thought the wingnut fringe had decided that it was a North Korean suicide squad on a mini-sub? Is Rush just trying to stick for a slighter less insane version of insanity here?

42 SpaceJesus  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:30:56pm

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

Debbie Schlussel lost her mind many, many years ago. And Miss Michigan is a lovely young woman.


i think debbie might just be a little jealous of miss michigan (in combination with being crazier than a shithouse rat)

43 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:31:29pm

re: #26 MandyManners

I'm sorry for your loss.

44 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:31:31pm

re: #31 MandyManners

You know, the folks who earn their living-wages from B.P.?

Tell them they need better union representation.

45 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:31:31pm

re: #26 MandyManners

Now, will someone tell me what to say to the dozens of BP employees I encounter every day?

Well, at least you found oil.

46 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:31:41pm

re: #31 MandyManners

You know, the folks who earn their living-wages from B.P.?

Good morning, how are you today?

That always works for me in sticky situations.

47 MandyManners  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:32:06pm

Bye!

48 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:32:50pm

re: #3 Charles

This may very well put BP completely out of business.

It will. And FWIW, I am late to the conversation because I watched the whole thing. I have skin in this game.

49 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:33:24pm

re: #46 reine.de.tout

Good morning, how are you today?

That always works for me in sticky situations.

That's really good. I must remember it!
((Reine))

50 SpaceJesus  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:33:39pm

re: #47 MandyManners

Bye!


flounce?

51 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:34:20pm

BP is nobody....let em fold
Jesus on the mainline, tell em what you need

52 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:34:27pm

re: #49 Floral Giraffe

That's really good. I must remember it!
((Reine))

{flo}
good to "see" you!

53 webevintage  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:34:30pm

I was grilling rib eyes when it was on and almost cooked them medium (which would have been a sin) I was so engrossed in this interview.
Horrifying is the correct word to describe it.

54 McSpiff  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:34:44pm

re: #39 MandyManners

And, I give you a great-big fucking "F".

Hey, not my fault BP fucked up. They committed the tort, they pay for it. That's how the system works. Business go bankrupt due to this stuff all the time. People lose their jobs from it. Hell, my family bankrupted a small carpentry firm in court because they fucked up a job. If you can't do the job properly, and safely, don't do it.

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:34:50pm

re: #42 SpaceJesus

i think debbie might just be a little jealous of miss michigan (in combination with being crazier than a shithouse rat)

Be careful. She shows up here when her name is spoken.

(Twice now. It's amazing.)

56 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:35:26pm

re: #52 reine.de.tout

You holding up OK?
This torrent of bad, can't be easy!
Dripped 24/7 on the "news".

57 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:35:45pm

re: #3 Charles

This may very well put BP completely out of business.

It serves me right for owning BP stock. I just can't catch a break.

58 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:36:14pm

re: #38 reine.de.tout

Exactly.
He knows his job and knows it very well, but not the rest of it. The press are having problems finding people to talk to them, I'm sure, so they are talking to whoever they can find and assuming those people know the whole process, when that is not necessarily true.

BP is spinning, spinning, spinning, trying to make this out to be somebody else's responsibility or at least some sort of shared responsibility. I just don't see that it is anything but BP's fault.

I wonder how much they paid this guy for the 60 Minutes exclusive interview? He must still be in shock and mourning after the disaster he survived.

59 Kragar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:36:33pm

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

Be careful. She shows up here when her name is spoken.

(Twice now. It's amazing.)

Debbie Schlussel!!!
Debbie Schlussel!!!
Debbie Schlussel!!!

60 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:36:43pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Short it quickly, cover yourself.
Channeling Sigma whatever the nic was!

61 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:36:48pm

re: #25 SpaceJesus

debbie schlussel loses mind over miss michigan being from dearborn

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

Lol@wingnuts.

62 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:37:12pm

re: #59 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nooo!

63 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:37:25pm

re: #50 SpaceJesus

flounce?

Don't flounce SpaceJesus, we need you.

64 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:38:18pm

re: #60 Floral Giraffe

I don't know if I'd short something even if a knew how.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:38:22pm

re: #59 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Debbie Schlussel!!!
Debbie Schlussel!!!
Debbie Schlussel!!!

Oh great. You think I'm kidding. She called me SanFranciscoLiar the last time she was here.

(I don't think she likes me.)

66 SpaceJesus  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:38:42pm

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

Be careful. She shows up here when her name is spoken.

(Twice now. It's amazing.)

she wasn't banned?

67 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:38:44pm

Gos is pissed, we are not paying attention and our heathen pursuit of greed will be our divine downfall

68 McSpiff  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:39:16pm

re: #67 albusteve

Gos is pissed, we are not paying attention and our heathen pursuit of greed will be our divine downfall

and God isn't impressed either!

69 Kragar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:39:29pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh great. You think I'm kidding. She called me SanFranciscoLiar the last time she was here.

(I don't think she likes me.)

What a nattering twit.

70 celticdragon  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:39:59pm

re: #17 reine.de.tout

Hey Bagua.

My husband, who is a mud engineer, tells me he sees pieces of rubber all the time; that these rubber pieces in the BOP are very thick, and reinforced, and the shearing of a few chunks of it isn't a problem. Also, that they are designed so that pipe will move through them, so moving pipe through them was not in itself odd or unusual.

The REAL problem in this thing was in the 2nd part of the report, about the cement plugs. That second part of the report confirms the events that the Roi heard a week or so ago. The mud was the ONLY thing keeping pressure on the oil and gas and keeping it out of the riser (pipe). When they circulated the mud out before putting in the final plug - that sealed their fate.The blowout would not have occurred if they had taken the time to set that final plug before circulating the mud out, and the engineer in the 60 minutes report confirmed that.

The original plan was to do set that plug properly. It was BP who decided to do it differently to save a few days time (and money). It was BP who "won" that argument. This blowout is BP's fault. They will continue to try to claim that it was Transocean's fault or that the BOP was to blame. Not true. BP made the fatal decision when they circulated the mud out before putting in the final plug.

Damn.

Damn BP to hell for that.

I have no words...but the folks at Reason Magazine keep telling us that companies can police themselves because they know cutting corners will bring market punishment if something goes boom.

Something did go "boom", and I want some bastards from BP management brought up on Federal indictments.

Maybe its time for literal torches and pitchforks. The "masters of the Universe" who privatize the profit and dump the disaster costs on everyone else need a fucking lesson.

71 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:40:16pm

re: #68 McSpiff

and God isn't impressed either!

wtf is Gos?....some PGA cady?

72 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:40:47pm

re: #63 Bagua

Don't flounce SpaceJesus, we need you.

OK, now who would have thought, back once upon a time, that THIS comment would get updinged? Seriously!

73 celticdragon  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:41:02pm

re: #58 Bagua

I wonder how much they paid this guy for the 60 Minutes exclusive interview? He must still be in shock and mourning after the disaster he survived.

Reputable news shows generally do not pay interviewees.

74 McSpiff  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:41:03pm

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

Be careful. She shows up here when her name is spoken.

(Twice now. It's amazing.)

That's who we're talking about? She was all sorts of crazy.

Personal attacks on SFZ is one of the classic signs of a troll.

75 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:41:07pm

re: #66 SpaceJesus

she wasn't banned?

Not that I know of, but I haven't been keeping close track.

76 Lemon  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:41:34pm

A great, and very sobering piece by 60 Minutes.

Does anyone know how much oil is estimated to be undersea still? I know they plan to have relief wells in August, but will it still be leaking with as much force, or will the pocket be somewhat depleted by then?

I guess I'm just wondering how long it would continue to leak if it couldn't be stopped.

77 SpaceJesus  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:41:48pm

re: #63 Bagua

Don't flounce SpaceJesus, we need you.


no no, i thought mandy just flounced

78 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:42:19pm

re: #73 celticdragon

Reputable news shows generally do not pay interviewees.

Really? What about 60 Minutes?

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:42:29pm

re: #77 SpaceJesus

no no, i thought mandy just flounced

No, I think she just left.

80 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:42:59pm

re: #54 McSpiff

Hey, not my fault BP fucked up. They committed the tort, they pay for it. That's how the system works. Business go bankrupt due to this stuff all the time. People lose their jobs from it. Hell, my family bankrupted a small carpentry firm in court because they fucked up a job. If you can't do the job properly, and safely, don't do it.

They can fall back on the $75 million cap if they choose. They won't because they want to be able to drill the US in the future. BP will pay a great deal of money out above their legal obligation, probably billions, and still survive.

81 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:43:04pm

re: #76 Lemon

I have heard 210K gallons a day to 3.5 Mil a day.

82 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:43:49pm

re: #63 Bagua

Don't flounce SpaceJesus, we need you.

Don't woory about it, even if he flounced, SJ would be back in three days.

83 Interesting Times  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:43:50pm

re: #68 McSpiff

I'm not religious, but if I were, I would see this as one big-ass sign from God to come up with an oil alternative, now.

84 Kragar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:43:59pm

Its like an episode of Love America Style.

1: I thought you flounced.
2: But I thought you...
(pause)
1 and 2: I love you!

85 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:44:07pm

re: #76 Lemon

A great, and very sobering piece by 60 Minutes.

Does anyone know how much oil is estimated to be undersea still? I know they plan to have relief wells in August, but will it still be leaking with as much force, or will the pocket be somewhat depleted by then?

I guess I'm just wondering how long it would continue to leak if it couldn't be stopped.

The pocket would eventually be depleted, or the formation would collapse in on itself and close off by itself, but no telling how long that could take.

They have managed to get a pipe down there and are now bringing oil up to a ship at the surface. So the leakage is a bit more contained than it was. Unsure as to how much this will contain it, but it's something.

86 SpaceJesus  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:44:30pm

re: #82 Reginald Perrin

Don't woory about it, even if he flounced, SJ would be back in three days.

charles (me) can't ban himself anyway. that would just be silly

87 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:45:04pm

re: #83 publicityStunted

I'm not religious, but if I were, I would see this as one big-ass sign from God to come up with an oil alternative, now.

think of all the trips to the salon to have your toe nails painted...we are getting killed here

88 Kragar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:45:41pm

re: #86 SpaceJesus

charles (me) can't ban himself anyway. that would just be silly

It would cause some sort of cross time paradox where SpaceJesus ends up taking his Mom to prom.

89 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:45:55pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

It serves me right for owning BP stock. I just can't catch a break.

So, we finally get to talk to the owner. Good gosh Kilgore, are you not already legion on teh intertoobs without causing the Gulf Oilmagedon!

There will be a firestorm.

90 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:46:18pm

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It would cause some sort of cross time paradox where SpaceJesus ends up taking his Mom to prom.

SJ is his own dad?

91 MandyManners  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:46:53pm

Cutis Loew plays the blues.

Youtube Video
92 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:47:35pm

re: #58 Bagua

I wonder how much they paid this guy for the 60 Minutes exclusive interview? He must still be in shock and mourning after the disaster he survived.

The Roi tells me that his company had 2 killed, and 3 survivors of that event. One of the survivors is so utterly devastated by this that he will be unable to work again in that capacity.

I imagine for the survivors, the shock will never completely go away.

93 Nimed  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:47:43pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh great. You think I'm kidding. She called me SanFranciscoLiar the last time she was here.

(I don't think she likes me.)

SanFranciscoLiar? Really? :p
Debbie is not the evil genius type, hu?

94 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:47:49pm

re: #90 albusteve

SJ is a force of nature.
It can NOT be understood, only appreciated.

95 McSpiff  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:47:51pm

re: #80 Bagua

They can fall back on the $75 million cap if they choose. They won't because they want to be able to drill the US in the future. BP will pay a great deal of money out above their legal obligation, probably billions, and still survive.

Exactly. Hell, I'm sure there would be a way to ban BP from even shipping oil to the US. Which is why the US gov't won't do anything to bankrupt BP. They'd rather go bankrupt on their own and not pay a dime more than the $75 million cap.

96 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:47:51pm

re: #86 SpaceJesus

charles (me) can't ban himself anyway. that would just be silly

Now things are becoming confusing, the stalkers accused me of being you.
Does that mean I am Charles Johnson?

97 Kragar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:48:16pm

re: #90 albusteve

SJ is his own dad?

Stranger things have happened.

98 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:48:41pm

I may have missed it. Where is the second rig located?

99 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:48:51pm

re: #70 celticdragon

Damn.

Damn BP to hell for that.

I have no words...but the folks at Reason Magazine keep telling us that companies can police themselves because they know cutting corners will bring market punishment if something goes boom.

Something did go "boom", and I want some bastards from BP management brought up on Federal indictments.

Maybe its time for literal torches and pitchforks. The "masters of the Universe" who privatize the profit and dump the disaster costs on everyone else need a fucking lesson.

I agree, we are talking about criminal negligence here.

100 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:48:54pm

Just got done watching the 60 Minutes piece. That is damning stuff. Thanks Charles for linking to this.

101 Spare O'Lake  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:49:29pm

re: #90 albusteve

SJ is his own dad?

Any suggestion that He is the Father and the Son would be heresay.

102 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:49:42pm

re: #91 MandyManners

Cutis Loew plays the blues.


[Video]

nice again...it's where my music head is at

103 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:49:52pm

How's that drilly drilly thang workin' out for yah?

104 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:50:19pm

re: #101 Spare O'Lake

Any suggestion that He is the Father and the Son would be heresay.

he's just the Holy Ghost...leave it at that

105 Kragar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:50:40pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

How's that drilly drilly thang workin' out for yah?

Great!!!

Oh wait...

106 Nimed  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:51:04pm

re: #26 MandyManners

Now, will someone tell me what to say to the dozens of BP employees I encounter every day?

Don't freak out just yet. I seriously doubt a giant like BP will go out of business.

107 webevintage  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:51:06pm

re: #93 Nimed

SanFranciscoLiar? Really? :p
Debbie is not the evil genius type, hu?

Crazy lady is crazy...

108 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:51:14pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

How's that drilly drilly thang workin' out for yah?

how else do we get oil?....moon rocks?
we need oil regardless of this incident

109 Kragar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:51:46pm

re: #104 albusteve

he's just the Holy Ghost...leave it at that

That explains the white sheet and him popping out of the confessional going "BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA!"

110 Lemon  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:52:25pm

re: #85 reine.de.tout

Did they manage to keep that relief pipe in place today? I know they had tried to siphon from one of the the leaks recently but they had to pull it up and adjust it.

Good news, no matter how small it may be.

111 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:52:49pm

re: #26 MandyManners

Now, will someone tell me what to say to the dozens of BP employees I encounter every day?

Drill here drill now?

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:53:03pm

re: #70 celticdragon

Damn.

Damn BP to hell for that.

I have no words...but the folks at Reason Magazine keep telling us that companies can police themselves because they know cutting corners will bring market punishment if something goes boom.

That's the problem. In the actual event, like this, they go from that line of reasoning to feeling that the company is too valuable to really be held accountable.

113 McSpiff  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:53:04pm

re: #108 albusteve

how else do we get oil?...moon rocks?
we need oil regardless of this incident

If you guys don't want to drill anymore, Canada has no problem ramping up Oil Sands production. Ecological disasters and all.

114 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:53:19pm

re: #109 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That explains the white sheet and him popping out of the confessional going "BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA!"

I'm telling you...that pinnacle was STARCHED!....(fake)

115 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:54:18pm

re: #113 McSpiff

If you guys don't want to drill anymore, Canada has no problem ramping up Oil Sands production. Ecological disasters and all.

it will come to that...start cooking

116 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:54:31pm

re: #110 Lemon

Did they manage to keep that relief pipe in place today? I know they had tried to siphon from one of the the leaks recently but they had to pull it up and adjust it.

Good news, no matter how small it may be.

Yeah, it's in place and working.
so . . . we'll see how it goes.

117 Interesting Times  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:54:40pm

re: #87 albusteve

think of all the trips to the salon to have your toe nails painted...

I do that myself, at home :) And the organization I work for is a participant in this:

The Ontario BioCar Initiative

(and yes, there's a focus on using non-edible agricultural byproducts as well)

118 lazardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:54:48pm

It is amazing how conservatives will still insist on drilling for more oil, thus increasing the risk for disasters like this. This goes along with the "more nuclear power!" line they put as an alternative, which means more Chernobyls and Three Mile Isles. "Safer technology" be damned, that's what they said about the Deepwater Horizon.

119 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:55:43pm

re: #108 albusteve

how else do we get oil?...moon rocks?
we need oil regardless of this incident

John Galt is a fictional fucker, the real world version is a massive asshole of epic proportions.

120 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:56:12pm

re: #118 lazardo

It is amazing how conservatives will still insist on drilling for more oil, thus increasing the risk for disasters like this. This goes along with the "more nuclear power!" line they put as an alternative, which means more Chernobyls and Three Mile Isles. "Safer technology" be damned, that's what they said about the Deepwater Horizon.

I have a two bedroom cave you might be interested in...idealism is fine when you're young....rock on

121 Lemon  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:56:46pm

re: #98 Cannadian Club Akbar

According to this page, it's 190 miles south of New Orleans.

122 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:56:54pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

John Galt is a fictional fucker, the real world version is a massive asshole of epic proportions.

you have an alternative?
speak up

123 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:57:06pm

re: #118 lazardo

It is amazing how conservatives will still insist on drilling for more oil, thus increasing the risk for disasters like this. This goes along with the "more nuclear power!" line they put as an alternative, which means more Chernobyls and Three Mile Isles. "Safer technology" be damned, that's what they said about the Deepwater Horizon.

Don't you live right next to France?

124 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:57:08pm

re: #108 albusteve

how else do we get oil?...moon rocks?
we need oil regardless of this incident

A moratorium on drilling until the technology is up to snuff would not reduce the current supply, it would only delay new oil coming on line. Of course the Oil Price will spike, but that's a cost we have to bear.

It is a risky move for Obama though, Oil would likely spike above $100 bbl where the pain sets in. Could mean a recession as well. But it is the only sensible choice at the present.

125 McSpiff  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:57:15pm

re: #115 albusteve

it will come to that...start cooking

We're discussing putting in a nuclear reactor to power the new production sites. This disaster will be a boom for Canada, as horrible as it is to say.

126 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:57:17pm

What will the flying car I was promised years ago run on?

127 lazardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:57:21pm

re: #120 albusteve

I have a two bedroom cave you might be interested in...idealism is fine when you're young...rock on

And speaking of rocking on, Ronnie James Dio is dead. ):

Youtube Video
128 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:57:29pm

re: #70 celticdragon

Damn.

Damn BP to hell for that.

I have no words...but the folks at Reason Magazine keep telling us that companies can police themselves because they know cutting corners will bring market punishment if something goes boom.

Something did go "boom", and I want some bastards from BP management brought up on Federal indictments.

Maybe its time for literal torches and pitchforks. The "masters of the Universe" who privatize the profit and dump the disaster costs on everyone else need a fucking lesson.

Well, here's the thing.
Drilling has been going on for decades by responsible companies and here and here have been no events like this one.

So - punish them all because BP tried to take a shortcut that backfired on them? BP should be accountable for this; not the companies that do things properly.

129 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:57:43pm

re: #116 reine.de.tout

It is a step ( OK, a small one) in the right direction.

130 Kragar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:58:05pm

re: #126 Cannadian Club Akbar

What will the flying car I was promised years ago run on?

Happy thoughts and pixie farts

131 b_sharp  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:58:07pm

re: #126 Cannadian Club Akbar

What will the flying car I was promised years ago run on?

Hot air.

132 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:58:09pm

re: #121 Lemon

According to this page, it's 190 miles south of New Orleans.

Thanks. And welcome.

133 McSpiff  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:58:13pm

re: #125 McSpiff

PIMF big time: a boon for Canada.

134 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:58:27pm

re: #127 lazardo

And speaking of rocking on, Ronnie James Dio is dead. ):


[Video]

he means nothing to me...never heard of him

135 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:58:35pm

re: #126 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes, and WHERE is my JetPack?

136 Altermite  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:58:45pm

My favorite posts back in the Dark Ages were when SJ would randomly log on and say something like "We should sell the south, but who'd want it?" and the board would go NUTS.

Also, he'd get a billion down dings, but w/e.

137 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:59:20pm

re: #125 McSpiff

We're discussing putting in a nuclear reactor to power the new production sites. This disaster will be a boom for Canada, as horrible as it is to say.

it's not horrible, it's a fact of life....we need energy and lots of it

138 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 16, 2010 8:59:38pm

re: #122 albusteve

you have an alternative?
speak up


How about obeying safety regulations? How about some common sense? How about putting the safety of humans above profits? Is that really so unrealistic?

139 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:00:02pm

re: #136 Altermite

Heh. He had quad digit negative karma. I never downdinged him.

140 Lemon  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:00:16pm

re: #132 Cannadian Club Akbar

Thanks, CCA. I've been around for a while -- I just rarely have anything to contribute.

141 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:00:43pm

re: #115 albusteve

it will come to that...start cooking

Cooking?
Cooking did you say?

Buy Volume 2 of the LGF Cookbook - Reality Bites!

The last time I posted a shameless cookbook promotion, somebody *cough-SJ-cough* said they would buy one.

Only thing is - we stood at 26 copies sold when somebody *cough-SJ-cough* said that, and we still stand at 26 copies sold.

I have to wonder if somebody *cough-SJ-cough* bought the book they promised they would buy.

142 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:00:53pm

re: #124 Bagua

A moratorium on drilling until the technology is up to snuff would not reduce the current supply, it would only delay new oil coming on line. Of course the Oil Price will spike, but that's a cost we have to bear.

It is a risky move for Obama though, Oil would likely spike above $100 bbl where the pain sets in. Could mean a recession as well. But it is the only sensible choice at the present.

yes, I'm not favorable to the current situation...BP is dirt, they can collect their last paycheck and punch out...drillers beware!

143 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:01:00pm

Those who want smaller government won't have oil or nukes. Nuclear is inherently large-scale, and episodes like BP will increase the people's tolerance for more government regulation.

144 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:01:20pm

re: #140 Lemon

Thanks, CCA. I've been around for a while -- I just rarely have anything to contribute.

My bad. I see you have been. Well, jump in more, K?

145 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:01:56pm

re: #125 McSpiff

We're discussing putting in a nuclear reactor to power the new production sites. This disaster will be a boom for Canada, as horrible as it is to say.

Canada produces most of its own oil, so why does gas in Canada cost more than $5/gal?

146 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:02:03pm

re: #135 Floral Giraffe

Yes, and WHERE is my JetPack?

It's in the closet underneath the boxes with all the bondage gear.

147 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:02:16pm

re: #145 Alouette

Canada produces most of its own oil, so why does gas in Canada cost more than $5/gal?

TAXES!!!

148 lazardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:02:17pm

Meanwhile, the oil-rich Middle East is developing the world's first carbon-neutral city near Abu Dhabi.

When the Middle East is ahead of America in carbon-neutral development, you know something's very wrong.

149 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:02:58pm

re: #138 Killgore Trout

How about obeying safety regulations? How about some common sense? How about putting the safety of humans above profits? Is that really so unrealistic?

that is no alternative, that's your federal tax dollars at work

150 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:02:58pm

re: #146 Reginald Perrin

It's in the closet underneath the boxes with all the bondage gear.

Ding for connecting dots.

151 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:03:40pm

re: #147 Cannadian Club Akbar

TAXES!!!

Somebody's gotta pay for all the free health care.

152 Interesting Times  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:03:50pm

re: #125 McSpiff

We're discussing putting in a nuclear reactor to power the new production sites. This disaster will be a boom for Canada, as horrible as it is to say.

re: #133 McSpiff

PIMF big time: a boon for Canada.

Thanks - the words "nuclear reactor" and "boom" in such close proximity isn't exactly a recipe for mental tranquility ;)

153 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:04:06pm

re: #143 Decatur Deb

Those who want smaller government won't have oil or nukes. Nuclear is inherently large-scale, and episodes like BP will increase the people's tolerance for more government regulation.

wrong...a Hyperion can easily be managed locally

154 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:04:08pm

re: #141 reine.de.tout

BUY THE COOKBOOK.
It's fun, has good recipes in it, and
*cough*
several lizards worked very hard on it.
If you contributed, your Mom NEEDS to get a copy.
The art work alone, is worth the price!

155 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:04:42pm

re: #146 Reginald Perrin

Yeah, and your hockey skates.
Sheesh.

156 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:04:46pm

If we stopped all oil production right now, with in a few years society would be much more localized, more agrarian, more self-sustaining. Mass transit would be better developed, people would live close to their work. Communities would be more self-sustaining, less bedroom community mentality. Think of the Amish, sans the religious aspects. It really would be the best thing that could happen.

157 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:04:49pm

re: #154 Floral Giraffe

BUY THE COOKBOOK.
It's fun, has good recipes in it, and
*cough*
several lizards worked very hard on it.
If you contributed, your Mom NEEDS to get a copy.
The art work alone, is worth the price!

My Super Awesome To Die For Cheesecake recipe alone, is worth the price!

158 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:05:25pm

re: #155 Floral Giraffe

Yeah, and your hockey skates.
Sheesh.

ew. And probably dirty socks worn with those hockey skates. ew again.

159 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:05:33pm

re: #156 Walter L. Newton

If we stopped all oil production right now, with in a few years society would be much more localized, more agrarian, more self-sustaining. Mass transit would be better developed, people would live close to their work. Communities would be more self-sustaining, less bedroom community mentality. Think of the Amish, sans the religious aspects. It really would be the best thing that could happen.

We'd all ride on unicorns everywhere we go.

160 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:05:56pm

re: #153 albusteve

wrong...a Hyperion can easily be managed locally

NRC gets a bigger mission, even if only for public comfort, with every reactor that comes on line.

161 webevintage  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:06:08pm

re: #127 lazardo

And speaking of rocking on, Ronnie James Dio is dead. ):


[Video]

My kid came home from work and I told him.
He's been listening to Dio for the last hour now.
(RJD was my son's God of Metal)

I guess it's like when Lynyrd Skynyrd died?
(and I remember that day because of all the kids at school dressed in black. Stoners were crying...it was a sight.)

162 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:06:20pm

I can't believe how many people here roll over for the feds...all the money you give them and a fucking 3rd grade oil spill is what you get...BP is on the ropes but I hold the feds accountable...isn't that exactly why we pay taxes?

163 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:06:21pm

re: #157 Alouette

It takes a while to receive the book, as they are printed upon demand.
Mine should be here this week.
Camping out at the mailbox, to be sure!

164 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:06:36pm

re: #157 Alouette

My Super Awesome To Die For Cheesecake recipe alone, is worth the price!

I make the greatest lasagna know to man. But that will be next years book.

165 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:07:02pm

re: #128 reine.de.tout

Well, here's the thing.
Drilling has been going on for decades by responsible companies and here and here have been no events like this one.

So - punish them all because BP tried to take a shortcut that backfired on them? BP should be accountable for this; not the companies that do things properly.

What troubles me is not that, I agree we can raise standards and punish BP. The problem is that this incident demonstrates that we are not able to quickly contain an accident, nor are the current state of the art BOPs foolproof.

There needs to be a new design with real fail-safes which prevent a blowout even after an accident or mistake, and the ability for reliably shut off by a submersible robot should one still occur.

We are pushing the envelope in deep water drilling and robotics, but we are not properly prepared for damage control. It was all seat of the pants and nothing was ready to be deployed.

166 Lemon  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:07:17pm

re: #144 Cannadian Club Akbar

Usually I end up reading threads near the end of the day, and by the time I get to the end of the comments, nobody else has been on that thread for hours, it's completely dead, and any thought I would have injected into the conversation has already been stated, discussed, and put to rest.

I'm too slow.

I'll try better, though.

167 McSpiff  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:07:19pm

re: #145 Alouette

Canada produces most of its own oil, so why does gas in Canada cost more than $5/gal?

It doesn't cost nearly that much. I'm in an expensive province, and it's about $1.00/L or according to Google that's about $3.78/Gal. So between a $1.00 and $0.78 than Maine, the closet state. Which is due to tax I believe.

168 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:07:38pm

re: #160 Decatur Deb

NRC gets a bigger mission, even if only for public comfort, with every reactor that comes on line.

change the law

169 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:07:44pm

re: #159 Alouette

We'd all ride on unicorns everywhere we go.

No... but mass transit has been powered by steam, by electricity, by animals for quite some time. Similarly, buildings are not a recent discovery, they have been constructed for centuries without the need for petroleum. As far as I am aware, electricity has been produced by coal, and by nuclear sources. Electricity, heat, and cooling are not dependent solely upon petroleum but can and are generated by other sources. Had there not been a ready supply of petroleum, civilization would have continued to exist. Having a source of cheap oil has made certain aspects more convenient and improved the present quality of life in many instances, but mankind and civilization will survived without it.

Stop drilling now.

170 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:07:51pm

re: #158 reine.de.tout

ew. And probably dirty socks worn with those hockey skates. ew again.

If they're touching my corset, it's going to the cleaners & somebody will have to wait.

171 webevintage  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:07:57pm

re: #141 reine.de.tout

Cooking?
Cooking did you say?

Buy Volume 2 of the LGF Cookbook - Reality Bites!

I love my cookbook.
I have little post-it-notes on each page with a recipe I want to try.

172 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:08:19pm

re: #166 Lemon

My first 3 years I barely posted. Work thingy. Feel ya.

173 darthstar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:08:47pm

Not that it would hurt the company, but I'd like to take a few BP executives, dip them in oil a few times, and leave them floundering in the surf on a rocky beach somewhere and let them see how they like it.

174 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:09:33pm

re: #173 darthstar

Nah, make them clean off the animals, covered in oil.

175 McSpiff  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:09:41pm

re: #167 McSpiff

It doesn't cost nearly that much. I'm in an expensive province, and it's about $1.00/L or according to Google that's about $3.78/Gal. So between a $1.00 and $0.78 than Maine, the closet state. Which is due to tax I believe.

Sigh PIMF again... "more than Maine"

176 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:09:56pm

re: #169 Walter L. Newton

No... but mass transit has been powered by steam, by electricity, by animals for quite some time. Similarly, buildings are not a recent discovery, they have been constructed for centuries without the need for petroleum. As far as I am aware, electricity has been produced by coal, and by nuclear sources. Electricity, heat, and cooling are not dependent solely upon petroleum but can and are generated by other sources. Had there not been a ready supply of petroleum, civilization would have continued to exist. Having a source of cheap oil has made certain aspects more convenient and improved the present quality of life in many instances, but mankind and civilization will survived without it.

Stop drilling now.

no...drill even more, but invest in alpaca's

177 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:10:17pm

re: #168 albusteve

change the law

People want to know their reactor isn't built by the Mafia and being run by Ukrainian engineers. Nuke=Bigger Government, NTTAWWT.

178 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:10:25pm

re: #169 Walter L. Newton

Stop drilling now.

Agreed. But not pumping from existing wells. We'd still have loads of oil, we'd just pay more for it.

179 darthstar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:10:41pm

re: #174 Floral Giraffe

Nah, make them clean off the animals, covered in oil.

Yes, but make them experience what it feels like, first.

180 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:10:42pm

re: #174 Floral Giraffe

Nah, make them clean off the animals, covered in oil.

The animals covered in oil, or the Exects?

181 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:11:10pm

re: #178 Bagua

Agreed. But not pumping from existing wells. We'd still have loads of oil, we'd just pay more for it.

No... stop now... life would be different and many of the advances that we take for granted would not be available. My point is socieity would not have the look that it does now, that we would likely live in self sustaining agrarian communities, producing foodstuff, clothing, and commodities locally as much as possible since trucking in vegetables from South America or shipping cheap consumer goods from China would not be effective. We might be living and working in buildings that simply used windows instead of air conditioning. There would likely be more use of mass transit, whether rail lines or other alternatives used instead of singular use of personal vehicles. Alternatives would have likely been developed, such as cotton for insulation for wiring as was the practice early on. Similarly, man has been pretty good at filling in the gaps by creating new technologies. There was a lot of early development of fuels such as hydrogen that was dropped due to the prevalence and economy of using petroleum. My opinion is that society would have continued to develop, not as easily or quickly, but possibly in different directions. Probably less affluent, but possibly more self-sustaining.

182 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:11:14pm

re: #177 Decatur Deb

People want to know their reactor isn't built by the Mafia and being run by Ukrainian engineers. Nuke=Bigger Government, NTTAWWT.

fuck them...change the law

183 darthstar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:11:31pm

re: #178 Bagua

Agreed. But not pumping from existing wells. We'd still have loads of oil, we'd just pay more for it.

I'll pay eight bucks a gallon. I'll drive less, too, but I'm willing to adapt.

184 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:11:32pm

re: #165 Bagua

What troubles me is not that, I agree we can raise standards and punish BP. The problem is that this incident demonstrates that we are not able to quickly contain an accident, nor are the current state of the art BOPs foolproof.

There needs to be a new design with real fail-safes which prevent a blowout even after an accident or mistake, and the ability for reliably shut off by a submersible robot should one still occur.

We are pushing the envelope in deep water drilling and robotics, but we are not properly prepared for damage control. It was all seat of the pants and nothing was ready to be deployed.

Absolutely agreed!

This didn't just kill 11 people and put another hundred or so people into a state of shock from which many will not recover.

It has also affected the livelihoods of many who make their living fishing, or shrimping or harvesting oysters in those waters.

It has the potential to be utterly devastating to sea life in the Gulf. It can't be known right now how far-reaching those effects will be.

BP caused this suffering, in a desire to save a few hours of time and money. The technology to finish this job safely was there and was actually the ORIGINAL plan. They discarded it in favor of a risky maneuver they had to know was risky.

185 laZardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:11:45pm

re: #180 Cannadian Club Akbar

The animals covered in oil, or the Exects?

The animals covered in oil. The execs are not worthy to be that high up on the food chain.

186 webevintage  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:11:50pm

re: #161 webevintage


I guess it's like when Lynyrd Skynyrd died?
(and I remember that day because of all the kids at school dressed in black. Stoners were crying...it was a sight.)

and in case you are wondering, yes I know Lynyrd Skynyrd is not a person, but a band...but you can't list all the names and really was no one else in high school when that happened?

187 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:12:20pm

re: #173 darthstar

Not that it would hurt the company, but I'd like to take a few BP executives, dip them in oil a few times, and leave them floundering in the surf on a rocky beach somewhere and let them see how they like it.

Just a normal day at the beach, oil up and work on your tan. Take a dip to cool off occasionally. Why treat them to a holiday?

188 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:12:36pm

re: #183 darthstar

I'll pay eight bucks a gallon. I'll drive less, too, but I'm willing to adapt.

It would depend on how quickly and how feasible it would be to develop alternatives as it would take society several generations to fully adapt. Recycling of plastics, coal gasification, dramatic changes in lifestyles among many other alternatives would be necessary to bridge to longer term alternatives. It is not possible to adapt into an agrarian self sustaining community very quickly, so food would certainly be an immediate priority, if large scale fertilizer based farming might not be feasible. So food might certainly become expensive. Plastics can be formed from non petrochemical sources (soy, algae among other plantstuffs) but again may not be feasible immediately for some time and are based on a petroleum driven agriculture. I could envision hydrogen becoming an important fuel source with an emphasis such as with the atomic bomb or space program push.

189 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:12:44pm

re: #183 darthstar

I'll pay eight bucks a gallon. I'll drive less, too, but I'm willing to adapt.

$8 will flatten our economy...but you are certainly noble and heroic

190 laZardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:12:54pm

re: #181 Walter L. Newton

No... stop now... life would be different and many of the advances that we take for granted would not be available. My point is socieity would not have the look that it does now, that we would likely live in self sustaining agrarian communities, producing foodstuff, clothing, and commodities locally as much as possible since trucking in vegetables from South America or shipping cheap consumer goods from China would not be effective. We might be living and working in buildings that simply used windows instead of air conditioning. There would likely be more use of mass transit, whether rail lines or other alternatives used instead of singular use of personal vehicles. Alternatives would have likely been developed, such as cotton for insulation for wiring as was the practice early on. Similarly, man has been pretty good at filling in the gaps by creating new technologies. There was a lot of early development of fuels such as hydrogen that was dropped due to the prevalence and economy of using petroleum. My opinion is that society would have continued to develop, not as easily or quickly, but possibly in different directions. Probably less affluent, but possibly more self-sustaining.

Nuclear power could have been a lot safer were it not for the Cold War.

191 austin_blue  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:13:03pm

re: #162 albusteve

I can't believe how many people here roll over for the feds...all the money you give them and a fucking 3rd grade oil spill is what you get...BP is on the ropes but I hold the feds accountable...isn't that exactly why we pay taxes?

That was not comprehensible. What's a third grade oil spill?

Does the MMS have a dog in this hunt? Yes. Are they ultimately responsible for the drilling of this well? No. This thing was drilled as "Business as Usual". It went to shit. It happens.

The question at this point is what we do going forward.

192 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:13:15pm

re: #186 webevintage

and in case you are wondering, yes I know Lynyrd Skynyrd is not a person, but a band...but you can't list all the names and really was no one else in high school when that happened?

I was in "A" skool with Eddie King, jr. Look it up.

193 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:13:29pm

re: #180 Cannadian Club Akbar

The animals covered in oil, or the Exects?

Yes.

194 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:14:04pm

re: #186 webevintage

and in case you are wondering, yes I know Lynyrd Skynyrd is not a person, but a band...but you can't list all the names and really was no one else in high school when that happened?

hahaha!...Lynard is gone!.....he was a great....guy?

195 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:14:09pm

re: #182 albusteve

fuck them...change the law

They'll change it--making controls tighter, whether needed or not, will be the political trade-off for going back to Nukes.

196 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:14:21pm

re: #190 laZardo

Nuclear power could have been a lot safer were it not for the Cold War.

I never even mentioned nuclear, so why are you referring my comment to it?

197 Lemon  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:14:49pm

While we're on the topic of oil and gasoline, what's the consensus here on switchgrass as a biofuel? I love what I've heard, but I've also seen so few negatives that I'm somewhat skeptical.

198 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:15:33pm

re: #197 Lemon

While we're on the topic of oil and gasoline, what's the consensus here on switchgrass as a biofuel? I love what I've heard, but I've also seen so few negatives that I'm somewhat skeptical.

Got a link? Post it!!

199 darthstar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:15:46pm

re: #188 Walter L. Newton

Coal gasification is just as toxic and energy draining as oil exploration. Infrastructure - high speed rail. That's the answer. We just need to spend the next twenty years building it...one region at a time, and use existing rail lines for connecting them so the people in rural areas have transport. In a generation, people will see rail travel as normal...in the United States.

200 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:15:57pm

re: #191 austin_blue

That was not comprehensible. What's a third grade oil spill?

Does the MMS have a dog in this hunt? Yes. Are they ultimately responsible for the drilling of this well? No. This thing was drilled as "Business as Usual". It went to shit. It happens.

The question at this point is what we do going forward.

figure it out...it's a hell of alot more simple than a 3000 posts about it...someone failed, who?...this was bound to happen

201 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:16:51pm

re: #199 darthstar

Are you serious? Rail? We can't make it work now.

202 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:17:08pm

re: #170 Floral Giraffe


re: #158 reine.de.tout

ew. And probably dirty socks worn with those hockey skates. ew again.

If they're touching my corset, it's going to the cleaners & somebody will have to wait.

I never wore socks with skates. Be advised, it may be a good idea to wear rubber gloves and a nose-plug when handling my skates.

203 laZardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:17:44pm

re: #196 Walter L. Newton

I never even mentioned nuclear, so why are you referring my comment to it?

Apart from the aforementioned comment on France, you mentioned that developing power technology could have gone in different directions. I was just pointing out one of those directions.

204 austin_blue  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:17:45pm

re: #197 Lemon

While we're on the topic of oil and gasoline, what's the consensus here on switchgrass as a biofuel? I love what I've heard, but I've also seen so few negatives that I'm somewhat skeptical.

The Tech is not mature. It has promise. Period, full stop.

205 darthstar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:17:51pm

re: #189 albusteve

$8 will flatten our economy...but you are certainly noble and heroic

You'll pay it too. And no, it won't flatten our economy. That's just a bullshit excuse to do anything to keep us from not being able to buy a 52" flat panel TV to replace our too-small 46" one. I was paying close to $4.50 a gallon when I lived in England in 2000 - 2002.

206 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:17:53pm

re: #191 austin_blue

That was not comprehensible. What's a third grade oil spill?

Does the MMS have a dog in this hunt? Yes. Are they ultimately responsible for the drilling of this well? No. This thing was drilled as "Business as Usual". It went to shit. It happens.

The question at this point is what we do going forward.

My answer is a moratorium on offshore drilling until new technology is developed, and proven which can quickly seal off a leak like this. Then the equipment must be available for quick deployment. The current kit is obviously not fit for purpose.

207 Lemon  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:18:10pm

re: #198 Cannadian Club Akbar

Here's one

And another

It can be made into ethanol, or pressed and used like coal. It grows like a weed in many environments, and you'll get out far more energy than it takes to grow and process.

208 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:18:42pm

re: #202 Reginald Perrin

No, thank you.
YOU can touch them.
I can provide a body bag, if needed.

209 austin_blue  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:18:46pm

re: #200 albusteve

figure it out...it's a hell of alot more simple than a 3000 posts about it...someone failed, who?...this was bound to happen

Again, your comment was not comprehensible. What's a third grade oils spill?

210 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:19:13pm

re: #205 darthstar

You'll pay it too. And no, it won't flatten our economy. That's just a bullshit excuse to do anything to keep us from not being able to buy a 52" flat panel TV to replace our too-small 46" one. I was paying close to $4.50 a gallon when I lived in England in 2000 - 2002.

yehaa! go for it...bigscreens are the litmus of our economy!

211 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:19:52pm

re: #207 Lemon

I hope you are thinking of joining the party more often.

212 darthstar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:20:02pm

re: #201 Floral Giraffe

Are you serious? Rail? We can't make it work now.

We can. We just don't want to, or we're not willing to put up with waiting for it to be ready for us to use. If we wanted to, we could make it work. Hell, we wanted to put a man on the moon in 1963, and a few years later, we'd done it.

213 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:20:43pm

re: #209 austin_blue

Again, your comment was not comprehensible. What's a third grade oils spill?

it's a problem that should easily have been considered, thus a back up plan in place if in fact it did occur...simple stuff

214 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:21:13pm

Up too late in CST--'Nite, all.

215 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:22:10pm

re: #199 darthstar

En Wikipedia...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

And, I can tell a couple of very funny stories, of rail freight getting stuck in a snowstorm in Texas, and we had to FLY goods in, to keep our commitments.
Yes, you got it air freight costs versus rail.
Oh, and we owned all of the goods, so then the rail goods, had to be re-routed. Big expensive mess.

216 SpaceJesus  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:22:25pm

re: #96 Reginald Perrin

Now things are becoming confusing, the stalkers accused me of being you.
Does that mean I am Charles Johnson?

it works like clockwork doesn't it

217 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:22:45pm

re: #208 Floral Giraffe

I can provide a body bag, if needed.

You have body bags lying around the house?

You're starting to frighten me, it may be prudent not to let you tie me up anymore.

218 laZardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:23:12pm

re: #199 darthstar

Coal gasification is just as toxic and energy draining as oil exploration. Infrastructure - high speed rail. That's the answer. We just need to spend the next twenty years building it...one region at a time, and use existing rail lines for connecting them so the people in rural areas have transport. In a generation, people will see rail travel as normal...in the United States.

Speaking of which, whatever happened to Fenway_Nation?

219 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:23:35pm

re: #217 Reginald Perrin

You have body bags lying around the house?

You're starting to frighten me, it may be prudent not to let you tie me up anymore.

Wait. She tied you up too?
///

220 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:23:45pm

One of the girls I go to seminary and church with just linked to this LGF article on the BP scandal on facebook. My head has officially exploded. I really really hope she's a fellow lizard.

221 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:23:57pm

re: #217 Reginald Perrin

You have body bags lying around the house?

You're starting to frighten me, it may be prudent not to let you tie me up anymore.

It's just airproof for your smelly skates, silly.
And, they're stored in the garage, not the house.

222 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:24:27pm

re: #218 laZardo

Banned, in the September frenzy.

223 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:24:37pm

re: #218 laZardo

Speaking of which, whatever happened to Fenway_Nation?

Banned or flounced. To bad.

224 Interesting Times  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:25:00pm

re: #207 Lemon

Here's one

And another

It can be made into ethanol, or pressed and used like coal. It grows like a weed in many environments, and you'll get out far more energy than it takes to grow and process.

Here's some more info about it if you're interested: Switchgrass: An Ontario Perspective

225 laZardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:25:20pm

re: #222 Floral Giraffe

Banned, in the September frenzy.

Figured. ): He was the go-to for trains here, hence the association.

226 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:25:51pm

re: #220 Irenicum

Please be careful. SFZ had a scare last week & the F'ing stalkers read every word posted here. Caution is best.

227 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:25:58pm

re: #223 Cannadian Club Akbar

Banned or flounced. To bad.

yeah...a reasonable voice...Charles must have seen it otherwise, there are rules

228 austin_blue  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:26:09pm

re: #206 Bagua

My answer is a moratorium on offshore drilling until new technology is developed, and proven which can quickly seal off a leak like this. Then the equipment must be available for quick deployment. The current kit is obviously not fit for purpose.

The Tech is there, it just didn't work in this case. A double stack of BOPs might have done the trick. We don't know if this was a backside blowout (around the production string- a bad cement job) or a primary blowout (through the production casing- not maintaining sufficient weight to keep the downhole pressure from overcoming the hydrostatic head.).

This is not rocket science, but BP isn't talking.

Oh, and by the way, I used to be a wellhead geologist and did this for a living.

229 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:26:23pm

re: #214 Decatur Deb

Piker. (have a good nite)

230 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:26:41pm

re: #219 Cannadian Club Akbar

Wait. She tied you up too?
///

She slipped something into my drink, all 12 times it happened.
I'm a slow learner.

231 Walter L. Newton  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:26:48pm

re: #212 darthstar

We can. We just don't want to, or we're not willing to put up with waiting for it to be ready for us to use. If we wanted to, we could make it work. Hell, we wanted to put a man on the moon in 1963, and a few years later, we'd done it.

And if we went cold turkey on using oil, there will be a whole lot of another benefits too. It will certainly decrease the population, families certainly won't be having as many children, therefor cutting down on the over all carbon footprints of humans. Less vehicles on the road, less roadkill, and the chances are we'll see less of the family pets getting run over by cars and trucks.

Physical fitness will increase in most people, walking and riding is much better for you than riding in a gas powered vehicle. Those citizens who are not physically able to walt distances or ride a bike will eventually die out, which will be good for the over all cleansing of the species.

Probably most important, the CO2 levels will certainly start to fall, which will not be as advantageous for the agriculture of the planet, but then again, with the loss of humans do to attrition, this two we turn out to find new levels and self sustain.

Stop drilling now.

232 darthstar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:26:50pm

re: #227 albusteve

yeah...a reasonable voice...Charles must have seen it otherwise, there are rules

Aw, shit...I'm going to get banned because I believe that the US is actually capable of making the transition to rail travel? Fuck me.

233 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:27:45pm

re: #228 austin_blue

The Tech is there, it just didn't work in this case. A double stack of BOPs might have done the trick. We don't know if this was a backside blowout (around the production string- a bad cement job) or a primary blowout (through the production casing- not maintaining sufficient weight to keep the downhole pressure from overcoming the hydrostatic head.).

This is not rocket science, but BP isn't talking.

Oh, and by the way, I used to be a wellhead geologist and did this for a living.

Hey, austin blue, I'll send you what the Roi told me he heard, if you'll e-mail me.

It's too technical for my brain to get the full meaning of.

234 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:27:52pm

re: #232 darthstar

No, stay polite & don't go posting at the fever swamps & I bet you get to stay.

235 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:27:57pm

re: #226 Floral Giraffe

Considering my recent email and blog issues, point well taken. Thanks.

236 Firstinla  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:28:01pm

Isn't BP one of those "too big to fail" corporations? I would imagine western governments will bail them out, with the US carrying most of the expense.

237 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:28:15pm

re: #232 darthstar

Aw, shit...I'm going to get banned because I believe that the US is actually capable of making the transition to rail travel? Fuck me.

K. See ya.
/And you didn't hold down the fort today...

238 laZardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:28:16pm

re: #232 darthstar

Aw, shit...I'm going to get banned because I believe that the US is actually capable of making the transition to rail travel? Fuck me.

I remember Freetoken making a similar case, though more focused on urban mass transit.

Given my experience with local mass transit and government corruption, I was actually pretty doubtful.

239 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:28:30pm

re: #230 Reginald Perrin

She slipped something into my drink, all 12 times it happened.
I'm a slow learner.

You're a big dreamer, I will grant you that.

240 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:28:51pm

re: #232 darthstar

Aw, shit...I'm going to get banned because I believe that the US is actually capable of making the transition to rail travel? Fuck me.

whatever...I really could care less about your future

241 austin_blue  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:29:54pm

re: #233 reine.de.tout

Hey, austin blue, I'll send you what the Roi told me he heard, if you'll e-mail me.

It's too technical for my brain to get the full meaning of.

I click your nic and get the cookbook page.

242 Lemon  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:30:37pm

Still on switchgrass,

Wikipedia on Switchgrass uses

I like that it's, potentially, such a multipurpose crop. It's mentioned on the page linked that scientists are working on making switchgrass produce biodegradable plastics.

It also serves as a habitat for many species of animals, helps prevent soil erosion, and it makes a good CO2 sponge.

I told you I loved the stuff.

re: #224 publicityStunted

Thanks for the link. I'm reading through it now.

243 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:30:42pm

re: #241 austin_blue

I click your nic and get the cookbook page.

click my avatar - email addy is in my profile.

244 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:30:47pm

re: #241 austin_blue

It's off to the right side, IIRC....

245 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:35:45pm

re: #228 austin_blue

The Tech is there, it just didn't work in this case. A double stack of BOPs might have done the trick. We don't know if this was a backside blowout (around the production string- a bad cement job) or a primary blowout (through the production casing- not maintaining sufficient weight to keep the downhole pressure from overcoming the hydrostatic head.).

This is not rocket science, but BP isn't talking.

Oh, and by the way, I used to be a wellhead geologist and did this for a living.

Good to have an expert here.

I don't think the answer is beyond our ability, but the units being used have proven inadequate.

Also, why can't we contain the leak once the worst has happened? We are literally "out of our depth" if we cannot. I also made the point that we can put a robot on Mars but we can't make one plug a leaky pipe. It is not rocket science indeed, so why don't we have this ability before we do the drilling?

At minimum there needs to be truly failsafe BOPs and a way to quickly handle leaks before we continue.

246 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:36:10pm

well what the hell

Youtube Video

speak up!

247 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:36:19pm

re: #226 Floral Giraffe

Please be careful. SFZ had a scare last week & the F'ing stalkers read every word posted here. Caution is best.


It was just the sophomore English teacher. Although now the dean is interested in posting here. If someone with a truly obnoxious name shows up here, it is NOT my fault.

248 laZardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:36:54pm

re: #246 albusteve

well what the hell

[Video]speak up!

Fine.

Youtube Video
249 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:37:29pm

re: #233 reine.de.tout

Hey, austin blue, I'll send you what the Roi told me he heard, if you'll e-mail me.

It's too technical for my brain to get the full meaning of.

Oh right, let's just cut Bagua out of the loop on the good stuff eh? hmmph!

250 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:37:51pm

re: #248 laZardo

Fine.


[Video]

can't stand that shit...nice try tho

251 darthstar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:38:29pm

re: #234 Floral Giraffe


re: #237 Cannadian Club Akbar

People came. I left. My work was done.

re: #240 albusteve

whatever...I really could care less about your future


Thanks, Steve...I knew I could count on you.:)

252 TedStriker  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:38:40pm

Sorry I've not been around the past couple of weeks...been dealing with the aftermath of the Great Nashville Flood of 2010 (house got flooded and it's gonna wind up being torn down and rebuilt, for cost and safety reasons) and with work. Anyways, check this crap that Glenn Beck's pulling with the FCC over net neutrality:

Glenn Beck's war on the FCC (and Satan worshippers)

Just makes me want to laugh and hurl at the same time...

253 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:39:00pm

re: #236 Firstinla

Isn't BP one of those "too big to fail" corporations? I would imagine western governments will bail them out, with the US carrying most of the expense.

Nope, BP is British Petroleum. The Germans will have to bail them out. Snicker.

254 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:39:17pm

re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist

We're counting on you to alert us.
Should we gang up on him & drive him off, or give him a chance?
LOL!

255 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:39:18pm

re: #3 Charles

This may very well put BP completely out of business.

I hope not. That would put hundreds in the Chicago area out of work.

256 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:39:24pm

re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist

I wondered what that was about. Wow, HS teachers can be freaky to have show up later on. But then again, I never went to HS, so I wouldn't know. Good to stay safe though.

257 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:39:25pm

re: #249 Bagua

Oh right, let's just cut Bagua out of the loop on the good stuff eh? hmmph!

heh.
I need a translation first!

258 freetoken  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:40:15pm

re: #252 talon_262

Sorry to hear about your flooding, but glad you are at least still alive and kicking.

Glenn Beck has a war on all things rational.

259 austin_blue  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:40:26pm

re: #243 reine.de.tout

click my avatar - email addy is in my profile.

I'll do it tomorrow. Thanks!

260 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:41:34pm

I have an allergic reaction to nuts. Glenn Beck is the worst.

261 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:41:39pm

re: #254 Floral Giraffe

We're counting on you to alert us.
Should we gang up on him & drive him off, or give him a chance?
LOL!

He's a good guy. Catholic family man with a tendency to push the limits.

262 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:41:51pm

re: #202 Reginald Perrin

I never wore socks with skates. Be advised, it may be a good idea to wear rubber gloves and a nose-plug when handling my skates.

Down Reggie! It's too late to be that frisky! ;)

263 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:41:52pm

re: #257 reine.de.tout

heh.
I need a translation first!

It's OK, I speak jive.

Youtube Video
264 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:42:38pm

re: #260 Irenicum

I have an allergic reaction to nuts. Glenn Beck is the worst.

Are you sure that isn't just an allergy to Bad Craziness?

265 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:42:55pm

While I like to start my morning/evening with Morning/Evening Honcos, I will leave you with this...Good night, Infidels. Heh.

266 albusteve  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:43:36pm

for the Cooder haters out there...

Youtube Video

it's more than a 30 second hook

267 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:43:56pm

re: #261 SanFranciscoZionist

Just give us a wink, we'll follow your lead!

268 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:44:18pm

re: #264 Dark_Falcon

My body goes into full final stage heaves over bad craziness, so yeah, it's pretty bad.

269 Nimed  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:45:02pm

Meanwhile, in the Climate Change front:

It was the hottest April on record in the NASA dataset. More significantly, following fast on the heels of the hottest March and hottest Jan-Feb-March on record, it’s also the hottest Jan-Feb-March-April on record.

The record temperatures we’re seeing now are especially impressive because we’ve been in “the deepest solar minimum in nearly a century.”(...)

Most significantly, NASA’s March prediction has come true: “It is nearly certain that a new record 12-month global temperature will be set in 2010.″

[Link: climateprogress.org...]

270 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:45:54pm

re: #262 Dark_Falcon

Already taken care of.
He's handling his OWN skates, and waiting for the corsets to come back form the cleaners.
Serves him right.

Glad to hear your Mom is likely to come home this week.
((DF))

271 Interesting Times  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:46:30pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

I hope not. That would put hundreds in the Chicago area out of work.

I understand why you'd feel that way, but to be brutally honest, I'm infinitely more concerned with the Gulf coast fisherman, tour-boat operators, hotel owners, etc. who've seen not only their jobs but entire way of life destroyed, perhaps forever. No amount of money could ever compensate them for that.

272 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:47:26pm

re: #269 Nimed

Weather is not Climate.

273 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:47:30pm

re: #270 Floral Giraffe

But but but....I had to wear a sweater last night!!! That proves climate change ain't happening!!!

274 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:47:40pm

re: #271 publicityStunted

I understand why you'd feel that way, but to be brutally honest, I'm infinitely more concerned with the Gulf coast fisherman, tour-boat operators, hotel owners, etc. who've seen not only their jobs but entire way of life destroyed, perhaps forever. No amount of money could ever compensate them for that.

Also a tremendous blow to the oil industry workers.

275 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:48:26pm

re: #262 Dark_Falcon

Down Reggie! It's too late to be that frisky! ;)

DF, the only time it's too late to be frisky is after your heart stops beating.

p.s. It's no joke about being sock-less with skates. It became quite popular after Bobby Orr started the trend.

276 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:50:39pm

re: #273 Irenicum

Did I totally click on the wrong comment with that brilliantly snarky comment? I'm such a dork. (comment still stands)

277 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:51:11pm

re: #275 Reginald Perrin

*smooch*
Even without socks!
No, real socks, not sockpuppets.
Mmm, skates too...

278 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:51:49pm

re: #276 Irenicum

Yes, but we still like you.
LOL!

279 freetoken  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:51:54pm

re: #269 Nimed

Here's the link to GISS:

[Link: data.giss.nasa.gov...]

The NCDC version will be out shortly.

280 austin_blue  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:52:25pm

re: #245 Bagua

Good to have an expert here.

I don't think the answer is beyond our ability, but the units being used have proven inadequate.

Also, why can't we contain the leak once the worst has happened? We are literally "out of our depth" if we cannot. I also made the point that we can put a robot on Mars but we can't make one plug a leaky pipe. It is not rocket science indeed, so why don't we have this ability before we do the drilling?

At minimum there needs to be truly failsafe BOPs and a way to quickly handle leaks before we continue.

I don't disagree, but you have to understand that the environment has changed tremendously. When I left the offshore drilling industry (1990), after being seriously injured offshore and having my back repaired, we were drilling at water depths of a thousand feet. Not a big deal. Now they are drilling at 5 to 6,000 feet. Those are crushing depths of up to 150 to 175 atmospheres. Brutal shit and very little room for fuck ups. The relationship between the MMS, which both approves the drilling work and also collects the royalties based on on production is toxic.

That needs to change. The implicit conflict of interest must be split off. The regulatory body, based on safety of the work done in the field, cannot be connected with arm of the Gov't that makes money off that work.

281 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:52:38pm

re: #278 Floral Giraffe

This thread is just too fast! (such a terrible problem to have)

282 Nimed  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:52:44pm

re: #272 Floral Giraffe

Weather is not Climate.

Right you are. But this new record is a continuation of a 50 year trend. The very small consolation is that deniers will quickly learn that argument now, and perhaps we'll stop hearing about how the planet is cooling since 1998.

283 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:52:55pm

re: #270 Floral Giraffe

Already taken care of.
He's handling his OWN skates, and waiting for the corsets to come back form the cleaners.
Serves him right.

Silly girl, why did you take the latex corset to the cleaners?

*smack*

284 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:54:38pm

Cute BP ad

Youtube Video

Gonna need to come up with some new PR.

I propose this one.

Youtube Video
285 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:54:51pm

re: #283 Reginald Perrin

Um, no. It was the good silk corsets.
And, yes, they go to the best cleaners.
Latex? Not my attire, might be yours?

286 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:55:24pm

Well, it turns out my friend posted to LGF b/c of a previous post I had put up. Now she's hooked. Bwahahaha!!!

287 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:55:53pm

re: #285 Floral Giraffe

Leather

288 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:56:19pm

BP Official Public Apology

Youtube Video
289 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:57:20pm

re: #287 Reginald Perrin

Leather is hot. Very hot.
Anything that burns is good, if it melts, I won't touch it.

290 laZardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 9:58:57pm

re: #286 Irenicum

Well, it turns out my friend posted to LGF b/c of a previous post I had put up. Now she's hooked. Bwahahaha!!!

Facebook is part of the Global Zionist Conspiracy. %P%-)

291 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:01:28pm

re: #270 Floral Giraffe

Already taken care of.
He's handling his OWN skates, and waiting for the corsets to come back form the cleaners.
Serves him right.

Glad to hear your Mom is likely to come home this week.
((DF))

Thanks.

292 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:03:22pm

re: #287 Reginald Perrin

Leather? Are we back to Thursday night? ;)

293 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:05:01pm

re: #292 Irenicum

Leather? Are we back to Thursday night? ;)

Nope

We don't have a bunny troll to BBQ.

294 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:05:12pm

re: #290 laZardo

Facebook is part of the Global Zionist Conspiracy. %P%-)

So is LGF. Didn't you get the memo?

295 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:05:36pm

re: #292 Irenicum

Would you like to go there?
We could try...

296 Reginald Perrin  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:06:39pm

re: #294 Dark_Falcon

So is LGF. Didn't you get the memo?

The memo I got stated that LGF was funded by George Soros

297 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:08:19pm

re: #296 Reginald Perrin

Cammo clad deviants, waving their bottoms at the stalkers, were also funded by "Dear Georgie". LOL!

298 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:08:36pm

re: #296 Reginald Perrin

The memo I got stated that LGF was funded by George Soros

He's Jewish so its the same thing.

/ wingnut-moonbat logic

299 freetoken  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:09:41pm

Luap Dnar looks like a shoe-in:

Rand Paul Headed for an Easy Victory in Kentucky, Latest Poll Says

300 austin_blue  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:10:03pm

Night all. Sweet dreams.

301 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:10:57pm

re: #299 freetoken

Luap Dnar looks like a shoe-in:

Rand Paul Headed for an Easy Victory in Kentucky, Latest Poll Says

A Luap Dnar win will leave me ashamed to be a Republican. I hope the poll is wrong.

302 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:12:02pm

But I'm a good Christian boy. Why would y'all try to deviate me??? Oh wait, that's right, I'm weak on sanctification. (I actually have and wear a T shirt that says that. Great conversation starter)

But in other news, leather is drop dead sexy. I'm not entirely sure why, but it is.

303 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:12:07pm

Waddell is Mystery Trader in Market Plunge

NEW YORK (Reuters)—A big mystery seller of futures contracts during the market meltdown last week was not a hedge fund or a high frequency trader as many have suspected, but money manager Waddell & Reed Financial Inc., according to a document obtained by Reuters.

Waddell sold on May 6 a large order of e-mini contracts during a 20-minute span in which U.S. equities markets plunged, briefly wiping out nearly $1 trillion in market capital, the internal document from Chicago Mercantile Exchange parent CME Group Inc. said.

Regulators and exchange officials quickly focused on Waddell's sale of 75,000 e-mini contracts, which the CME said in the document "superficially appeared to be anomalous activity."

Gary Gensler, chairman of the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, said in congressional testimony on Tuesday [May 11] that it had found one sale was responsible for about 9 percent of the volume in e-minis during the sell-off in the U.S. markets.

...

'Quite a Shock to the Market'

Mr. Gensler said the contracts were sold between 2:32 p.m. and 2:51 p.m., the height of the meltdown.

The market for e-minis on May 6 fell more than 5 percent in a little more than 5 minutes starting at 2:40 p.m.—the height of the crash, the CME said in the document. The e-minis began to recover before stock prices turned higher.

An order the size of the Waddell contract would be a big trade to execute on a normal day, said a trader whose firm is active in the S&P 500 futures market. About 50,000 contracts are typically traded in an hour, the trader said.

"To get rid of 75,000 contracts, that's a lot of trading even if the market is healthy," the trader said. "But when suddenly the market changes and there's not as many bids there to trade with, 75,000 is going to cause quite a shock to the market. That's an enormous position for anybody, whether it's a hedge or whether it's a trade. It's a big position, no doubt about it."

The sharp drop in the futures preceded the dive in the broader U.S. equities markets.

304 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:12:41pm

re: #299 freetoken

Well, now we need a good term for "Not Republican, but not Democrat" either.
"Stuck in the middle with you " is a song, not a movement.
Hmmm.

305 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:13:12pm

re: #302 Irenicum

Silk is good too.
Just saying!

306 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:13:56pm

re: #300 austin_blue

As Bugs says, nighty night!

307 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:14:43pm

re: #303 Bagua

Posted in the linkage, hours ago.
*waves*

308 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:15:47pm

re: #303 Bagua

Damn scary times. Just like every other.

309 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:15:52pm

re: #280 austin_blue

I don't disagree, but you have to understand that the environment has changed tremendously. When I left the offshore drilling industry (1990), after being seriously injured offshore and having my back repaired, we were drilling at water depths of a thousand feet. Not a big deal. Now they are drilling at 5 to 6,000 feet. Those are crushing depths of up to 150 to 175 atmospheres. Brutal shit and very little room for fuck ups. The relationship between the MMS, which both approves the drilling work and also collects the royalties based on on production is toxic.

That needs to change. The implicit conflict of interest must be split off. The regulatory body, based on safety of the work done in the field, cannot be connected with arm of the Gov't that makes money off that work.

My point exactly, we are literally 'out of our depth' at the present. We need to prove we can prevent the blow-out and handle a blow-out at the depths we are working. We all know that isn't the case now. Thank you for the insights.

310 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:16:26pm

re: #305 Floral Giraffe

Oh, smooth response.

311 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:18:12pm

re: #309 Bagua

My point exactly, we are literally 'out of our depth' at the present. We need to prove we can prevent the blow-out and handle a blow-out at the depths we are working. We all know that isn't the case now. Thank you for the insights.

Yes, how is it that "we" are working where we can't control the results.
I don't get that part.

312 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:19:19pm

re: #304 Floral Giraffe

Well, now we need a good term for "Not Republican, but not Democrat" either.
"Stuck in the middle with you " is a song, not a movement.
Hmmm.

How about a song called "Allergic to Insanity"? The music video could someone freeing themselves from a crazy funhouse jointly run by Glenn Beck Maxine Waters.

/kidding

313 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:20:47pm

re: #307 Floral Giraffe

Posted in the linkage, hours ago.
*waves*

Good grief, I'm behind the times... there is no keeping up with a Giraffe is full gallop. My legs are just too short.

314 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:21:09pm

re: #312 Dark_Falcon

That would be a video I would watch with a glad heart.

315 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:21:25pm

re: #312 Dark_Falcon

Maxine Waters is a few fries short of a Happy Meal, maybe a couple of fries shorter than Cynthia McKinney, although presents herself in a more rational fashion. Maxine is local here, I'm NOT a fan.

316 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:22:28pm

re: #313 Bagua

Nice post. Well put. Style points upding.

317 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:22:34pm

re: #313 Bagua

((Bagua)) Your insights are valued!
(Do you wear socks with your skates?)

318 laZardo  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:23:46pm

Brb lunch. O:

319 Irenicum  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:26:42pm

Well my non-denier friends, it's late and tomorrow beckons. A big day in several ways. A new day will begin and I suspect a day will end. Be well one and all.

320 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:26:47pm

re: #311 Floral Giraffe

Yes, how is it that "we" are working where we can't control the results.
I don't get that part.

That is where I am at as the larger picture. Add another stack of BOPs, fix the flaws, find the cause of the accident, whatever. Accidents will occur none-the-less. Thus we need to address the containment issues first. Prove that we can handle a worst case scenario before we again use the new shiny drilling equipment at this depth.

321 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:26:53pm

Good night all.
Be well.

322 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:28:10pm

re: #317 Floral Giraffe

((Bagua)) Your insights are valued!
(Do you wear socks with your skates?)

Nope, naked. Isn't everybody?

(Thanks)

323 freetoken  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:35:56pm

Creationist education in action:

The Salisbury (NC) Post just published the following editorial:

Megan Bean: What text books don't tell you


It is full of fallacies and inaccurate statements. I thought about writing a comment on it... until I saw it was written by a senior of their local high school.

I give her credit for writing it... as it takes courage and determination for a student to publish a full opinion piece. But to reference Antonio Snider as some refuting the modern science just goes to show that someone is feeding the poor girl some bull.

Intentionally making children ignorant is child abuse.

324 freetoken  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:37:09pm

PIMF: " But to reference Antonio Snider as somehow refuting the modern science of geology ...

325 freetoken  Sun, May 16, 2010 10:43:03pm

So I did a search, and yes, both AIG and ICR pimp "Antonio Snider" (leaving out the full surname, just like the HS senior) as evidence against evolutionists.

Is creationism child abuse?

326 lostlakehiker  Sun, May 16, 2010 11:11:13pm

re: #70 celticdragon

Damn.

Damn BP to hell for that.

I have no words...but the folks at Reason Magazine keep telling us that companies can police themselves because they know cutting corners will bring market punishment if something goes boom.

Something did go "boom", and I want some bastards from BP management brought up on Federal indictments.

Maybe its time for literal torches and pitchforks. The "masters of the Universe" who privatize the profit and dump the disaster costs on everyone else need a fucking lesson.

If the disaster is as bad for the environment as people seem to think, just holding BP responsible and letting the law take its course should be a "market punishment". How many billions can BP shrug off? I'm not even talking punitive damages. Laying for a company to destroy it is not the proper function of the law. But neither is it part of the law to let them off the hook because the damages are worse than they say they thought might happen. However bad it gets, however much it costs our fishermen and whoever, that's how much BP pays. Unless they go bankrupt, in which case they just pay everything they have and too bad they didn't have more.

The next company facing a decision about safety will know that a bet on cutting corners bets the whole company and everyone's job and all the stockholder equity, all the directors' bonuses, the works.

Justice, simple justice, is amazingly powerful if there are no get out of jail free cards. We don't need pitchforks. We don't need new laws. We just need a court system that can't be gamed.

327 lostlakehiker  Sun, May 16, 2010 11:21:31pm

re: #323 freetoken

Creationist education in action:

The Salisbury (NC) Post just published the following editorial:

Megan Bean: What text books don't tell you

It is full of fallacies and inaccurate statements. I thought about writing a comment on it... until I saw it was written by a senior of their local high school.

I give her credit for writing it... as it takes courage and determination for a student to publish a full opinion piece. But to reference Antonio Snider as some refuting the modern science just goes to show that someone is feeding the poor girl some bull.

Intentionally making children ignorant is child abuse.

The girl writes well. But here's the snag. The absence of oxygen from the Miller-Urey experiment is perfectly sensible. If you're trying to explore the possibility of life resulting from natural processes, you would of course start from a hypothesis about what the atmosphere of the earth was like before there was life.

Before there was life, they would have reasoned, there were no living plants, no algae, none of the life forms that crack CO2 and produce oxygen. It's not a trick to leave out oxygen from that hypothetical early atmosphere. It's a logical necessity. This is a weakness in the essay. She made a point that's actually not a point.

As an adult, she is responsible for her own thinking. A good place to start would be to meditate upon how she fell into such an error as the one pointed out above. She can figure out for herself, following such a train of thought, who mislead her.

328 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 11:31:27pm

BTW, Miss Michigan won. Poor Debbie.

329 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 11:32:21pm

re: #326 lostlakehiker

BP can fall back on the $75 million statutory cap on liability damages from a single incident which is far short of bankruptcy. They had a $4.3 billion fourth-quarter profit, they also had a market value about $170 as of February, though that is slipping now.

331 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 16, 2010 11:47:11pm

re: #328 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, Miss Michigan won. Poor Debbie.

Debbie is now announcing it is a 'sad day in America' because this little Muslim girl is Miss USA, calling Donald Trump a 'dhimmi' (I donna think that means what she thinks it means), and suggesting that the contest was 'rigged'.

Since the other 49 girls who were actually in the pageant appear to have avoided totally melting down, you would think a grown woman who was not competing would have more sense.

Sheeeeesh.

332 Bagua  Sun, May 16, 2010 11:53:16pm

re: #331 SanFranciscoZionist

It's a sad day for America when the Muslims have prettier girls. I'm seethin'!

333 Gus  Mon, May 17, 2010 12:02:24am

Down with the establishment!

/

334 Gus  Mon, May 17, 2010 12:08:38am

You know what I hate?

The way the Google search page always looks different.

/

335 Gus  Mon, May 17, 2010 12:13:19am

Glenn Miller- American Patrol

Youtube Video
336 Varek Raith  Mon, May 17, 2010 2:39:25am

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

Debbie Schlussel lost her mind many, many years ago. And Miss Michigan is a lovely, HOT, young woman.


FTFY.

337 ryannon  Mon, May 17, 2010 3:02:55am

re: #11 freetoken

It is a very large international company, and even if Congress somehow can find a way to make BP pay more than $75 million to cover the costs, in the end everyone needs oil, and there are only 5 major private oil companies in the world (with lots of smaller players.)

Chevron is in its own political battles in South America (due to its purchase of Texaco in part).

It will be interesting to watch how this plays out in the political arena, but for sure the Drill Here Drill Now folk look pretty well compromised.

Heck, they'll just join the swelling ranks of the nuclear power crowd. Same blind enthusiasm, same lack of knowledge of the actual details and dangers.

338 ryannon  Mon, May 17, 2010 3:04:38am

re: #15 Decatur Deb

Time to crank up a new name and logo.

Gulf Oil? With a big, happy pelican.

Or is that one already taken...?

339 ryannon  Mon, May 17, 2010 3:14:53am

re: #90 albusteve

SJ is his own dad?

More like his own Son.

340 ryannon  Mon, May 17, 2010 3:30:39am

re: #120 albusteve

I have a two bedroom cave you might be interested in...idealism is fine when you're young...rock on

Real men live in caves, Steve.

341 ryannon  Mon, May 17, 2010 3:31:55am

re: #126 Cannadian Club Akbar

What will the flying car I was promised years ago run on?

Unicorn flatulence, silly man.

342 ryannon  Mon, May 17, 2010 3:36:03am

re: #153 albusteve

wrong...a Hyperion can easily be managed locally

Do they still talk about the necessity for 24/24 security, or has that been edited out of the website?

343 ryannon  Mon, May 17, 2010 3:37:47am

re: #156 Walter L. Newton

If we stopped all oil production right now, with in a few years society would be much more localized, more agrarian, more self-sustaining. Mass transit would be better developed, people would live close to their work. Communities would be more self-sustaining, less bedroom community mentality. Think of the Amish, sans the religious aspects. It really would be the best thing that could happen.

Hahahahahaha!

344 ryannon  Mon, May 17, 2010 3:39:54am

re: #169 Walter L. Newton

No... but mass transit has been powered by steam, by electricity, by animals for quite some time. Similarly, buildings are not a recent discovery, they have been constructed for centuries without the need for petroleum. As far as I am aware, electricity has been produced by coal, and by nuclear sources. Electricity, heat, and cooling are not dependent solely upon petroleum but can and are generated by other sources. Had there not been a ready supply of petroleum, civilization would have continued to exist. Having a source of cheap oil has made certain aspects more convenient and improved the present quality of life in many instances, but mankind and civilization will survived without it.

Stop drilling now.

Mwahahahahahah!

345 S'latch  Mon, May 17, 2010 5:33:27am

BP deserves to be shut down for this disaster. I don't even care what it takes to do it or what the effect of it might be. BP should be dissolved and the individuals who are responsible should be driven into unemployment and bankruptcy. I would sooner buy gas directly from Hugo Chavez than I would from BP.

346 Kefirah  Mon, May 17, 2010 5:45:52am

re: #3 Charles

unfortunately [and maybe this has been said], i'm not sure it will.

i do believe there's a congressional cap on damages at $75 million. the obama administration is pushing for a higher cap in light of what's happened, but you can be SURE there will be complaining from the far right. hell - maybe even just the right.

[Link: www.businessweek.com...]

personally? i want to see the company excoriated. i hate the prospect of job.loss, so maybe i just want to see everyone who had personal knowledge of impending doom locked up for criminal negligence. plaintiff? the whole damn world.

347 simoom  Mon, May 17, 2010 7:57:01am

re: #252 talon_262

...
Anyways, check this crap that Glenn Beck's pulling with the FCC over net neutrality:

Glenn Beck's war on the FCC (and Satan worshippers)

Just makes me want to laugh and hurl at the same time...

Yeah, FNC has been going after Net Neutrality and the FCC pretty hard. Here's a recent example of some of their midday 'news' coverage of the topic:

Youtube Video

They've managed to completely detach the debate from any semblance of reality. You've got to love the expressions of total disbelief on that guy from Free Press -- it's what the Internet's "WTF!?" looks like on a real person.

348 yoshicastmaster  Mon, May 17, 2010 10:23:42am

It sounds like BP has a culture of BS

It's outstanding that the CEO is trying to pass the buck, when his own managers pressed for the expeditious but more dangerous placing of the plugs. Company culture comes from the top down, and here that is clearly a problem.

It's also outstanding that, if you watch quotes on John Stewart, the companies are trying to blame Haliburton. While clearly a convenient scapegoat, the compounding of other errors makes Haliburton look like the least culpable party involved so far.

The cultures of pass-the-buck and no-accountability are dangerous.

Thank you Mike for coming forward with this. And thank you 60 Minutes for an excellent explanation.


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