Rep. Souder Resigns After Affair Becomes Public

Politics • Views: 3,795

Rep. Mark Souder (R-IN) has resigned after he was revealed to be carrying on an affair with a female aide.

As usual when Republicans are caught with their weenies where they shouldn’t be, he’s invoking God.

Eight-term Indiana Rep. Mark Souder announced his resignation Tuesday after admitting to an affair with a female aide who worked in his district office.

Souder, a Republican, will will step down on Friday. He said in remarks obtained by Fox News that he “sinned against God, my wife and my family by having a mutual relationship with a part-time member of my staff.”

“I wish I could have been a better example,” he said. “In this poisonous environment of Washington, D.C., any personal failing is seized upon, often twisted, for political gain. I am resigning rather than to put my family through that painful, drawn-out process. … We are a committed family but the error is mine and I should bear the responsibility. Not only am I thankful for a loving family but for a loving God.”

And the hypocrisy gets even juicier, because Souder recorded a web video singing the praises of “abstinence” — in which one of the “interviewers” was none other than the woman he was boinking, Tracy Jackson. I wonder if politicians who pull this stuff laugh about it in private?

Youtube Video

Also in the video, Souder expresses his support for “intelligent design” creationism; it’s no surprise to find a lying, cheating “family values” GOP politician supporting a lying, cheating form of pseudo-science.

UPDATE at 5/18/10 10:38:38 am:

Souder has now deleted his video from YouTube.

UPDATE at 5/18/10 10:52:19 am:

Of course, in the Internet era, trying to hide something like this is futile.

Youtube Video

Jump to bottom

523 comments
1 lgffan  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:35:54am

just crazy those republicans…just crazy

2 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:37:37am
sinned against God, my wife and my family by having a mutual relationship with a part-time member of my staff.

Of course your wife and family play second fiddle in the apologies…

3 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:37:54am

“In this poisonous environment of Washington, D.C., any personal failing is seized upon, often twisted, for political gain.”

Escpecially when you’re a lying hypocritical dirtbag who can’t keep his dick in his pants.

4 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:37:58am
I wonder if politicians who pull this stuff laugh about it in private?

Guaranteed.

5 sagehen  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:38:07am

The video’s already been pulled down.

That was quick.

6 wrenchwench  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:38:20am
This video has been removed by the user.

Dang.

7 Randall Gross  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:38:33am

Another craptastic “Family Values” populist hypocrite

8 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:38:55am

Good, he stepped down. That’s what politicians should do when they act disgracefully.

9 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:39:26am

re: #5 sagehen

The video’s already been pulled down.

That was quick.

He (or his staff) must have deleted the video only minutes ago. I just finished watching it.

10 oklahoma  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:39:36am

Regarding abstinence education, I think he was saying someone should have taught me how to keep it holstered.

11 Lidane  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:39:42am

“Family values” at work. Again.

12 Randall Gross  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:40:12am

This guy came in on the Gingrich wave and promised to only serve two terms — people should have known something was stinky when he ran for term III….

13 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:40:14am

re: #9 Charles

He (or his staff) must have deleted the video only minutes ago. I just finished watching it.

maybe he has a staffer monitoring LGF.

14 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:40:38am

re: #9 Charles

Perhaps he is well practiced at pulling out early.

15 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:40:56am

Just once, I want there to be a politician caught on video with a mistress and when asked what his wife thinks he says “Who do you think was taking the video?”

Hell, as long as he was honest about it and not a two faced bastard like this douchebag, I really could care less.

16 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:41:05am

re: #14 Rightwingconspirator

Perhaps he is well practiced at pulling out early.

Bravo.

17 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:41:24am

re: #14 Rightwingconspirator

Perhaps he is well practiced at pulling out early.

unlike john edwards

18 Randall Gross  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:42:52am

re: #9 Charles

Maybe you can find the /temp flv? :)

19 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:43:12am

re: #13 cliffster

maybe he has a staffer monitoring LGF.

TPM had the video up for a while, too.

20 Blue Point  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:43:35am

Sorry, God. Old what’s her name will get over it I’m sure.

21 Gus  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:44:47am
22 Randall Gross  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:45:06am

Yanking that down is an issue. Anytime you try to memory hole something that makes it big news in the modern world… twas a mistake on his part…

23 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:46:18am

Wanna tell you about the girl I love
My she looks so fine
She’s the only one that I been dreamin’ of
Maybe someday she will be all mine
I wanna tell her that I love her so
And thrill her with my every touch
I need to tell her she’s the only one I really love

— zeppelin

24 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:46:50am

This is just great.
Now if MSM can just call out Paul, Beck, Palin, Bachman, Limbaugh et al, for having affairs, then most of America’s political problems will be well and truly solved.

25 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:48:14am

re: #21 Gus 802

Congressman Souders Role in Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

[Video]

Quackers!

At least she’s cute.

26 Gus  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:49:19am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

At least she’s cute.

Here’s more!

Mark Souder and Tracy Jackson Discuss Abstinence

Classic. Souder on condoms and abstinence.

27 wrenchwench  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:49:39am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

At least she’s cute.

Yeah, but he’s not.

28 abbyadams  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:50:01am
I wonder if politicians who pull this stuff laugh about it in private?

I dunno about that, but I sure laugh about it in public.

Also… “horndog” as a tag? Brilliance.

29 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:50:29am

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

At least she’s cute.

Okay, so I’m not the only one thinking that.

Well, besides Souder…

30 wrenchwench  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:50:34am

re: #26 Gus 802

Here’s more!

Mark Souder and Tracy Jackson Discuss Abstinence


[Video]Classic. Souder on condoms and abstinence.

Grab that one before it gets pulled too.

31 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:51:34am

re: #1 lgffan

just crazy those republicans…just crazy

There’s crazy everywhere, not just republicans. Left, middle, right, democratic, independent, the insanity knows no boundaries and isn’t exclusive. Republicans aren’t the only ones that have been caught using their dipsticks in someone else’s car.

(annoyed because I’m in the midst of quitting smoking, the patch is close to freaking useless)

32 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:51:37am

“spare my family”???should have thought of that before deuchebag.

33 Randall Gross  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:52:19am

Another Theocrat bozo bites the dust….

34 Gus  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:52:20am
35 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:52:32am

re: #31 MrSilverDragon

There’s crazy everywhere, not just republicans. Left, middle, right, democratic, independent, the insanity knows no boundaries and isn’t exclusive. Republicans aren’t the only ones that have been caught using their dipsticks in someone else’s car.

(annoyed because I’m in the midst of quitting smoking, the patch is close to freaking useless)

Not if you chew on it.

36 soap_man  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:52:33am

re: #24 Spare O’Lake

This is just great.
Now if MSM can just call out Paul, Beck, Palin, Bachman, Limbaugh et al, for having affairs, then most of America’s political problems will be well and truly solved.

For the love of God, who would have sex with Rush Limbaugh?

37 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:53:09am

re: #26 Gus 802

Here’s more!

Mark Souder and Tracy Jackson Discuss Abstinence


[Video]Classic. Souder on condoms and abstinence.

Gee, the bimbo’s kind of cute. Guess she has a thing for double chins.

38 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:53:14am

Where’s your god now flanders…er souder?
Homer Simpson

39 wrenchwench  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:53:14am

From the article at the top:

In his statement, he added that by stepping down, his “mistake cannot be used as a political football” to undermine the causes he supports.

Oh yes it can. And it’s a little green one, too.

40 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:53:31am

re: #27 wrenchwench

Yeah, but he’s not.

But we aren’t able to see him lick his eyebrows or perform his “Tripod” act in these videos.

41 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:53:49am

re: #37 Shiplord Kirel

power groupie

42 soap_man  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:54:02am

re: #31 MrSilverDragon

There’s crazy everywhere, not just republicans. Left, middle, right, democratic, independent, the insanity knows no boundaries and isn’t exclusive. Republicans aren’t the only ones that have been caught using their dipsticks in someone else’s car.

(annoyed because I’m in the midst of quitting smoking, the patch is close to freaking useless)

Those pills work really well, according to a friend who hasn’t smoked in 13 weeks. Although she did warn of mood swings. (I’m talking about the pills that have caused people to kill themselves. So if you can avoid that, they seem to be worth the money.)

43 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:55:31am

re: #1 lgffan

Today it’s a Republican. Next time may well be a Democrat. The Democrat may not have publicly been a family values advocate, but odds are he or she did not have an open sexual marriage. They broke the same vows or promises. Less grist for the MSM & ratings bait, but just as harmful to those caught in it.

I wonder if men in power cheat more often?

44 MandyManners  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:55:42am

Thank goodness the staffer was a woman!

45 wrenchwench  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:55:49am

re: #40 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But we aren’t able to see him lick his eyebrows or perform his “Tripod” act in these videos.

Never judge a book by its cover, I guess. We can be pretty sure he has a forked tongue. That means both eyebrows at once.

46 MandyManners  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:56:19am

re: #10 oklahoma

Regarding abstinence education, I think he was saying someone should have taught me how to keep it holstered.

That’s easy. It’s called honoring your marital vows.

47 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:56:36am

re: #43 Rightwingconspirator

Today it’s a Republican. Next time may well be a Democrat. The Democrat may not have publicly been a family values advocate, but odds are he or she did not have an open sexual marriage. They broke the same vows or promises. Less grist for the MSM & ratings bait, but just as harmful to those caught in it.

I wonder if men in power cheat more often?

No, but we are more likely to hear about it because they are public figures. Especially when their public image is that of a moral crusader.

48 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:56:40am

re: #42 soap_man

Those pills work really well, according to a friend who hasn’t smoked in 13 weeks. Although she did warn of mood swings. (I’m talking about the pills that have caused people to kill themselves. So if you can avoid that, they seem to be worth the money.)

It was considered, but I’m already on a daily multi-pill diet and there could be interactions. I’ll kick it yet.

49 MandyManners  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:56:40am

re: #14 Rightwingconspirator

Perhaps he is well practiced at pulling out early.

Freaking post of the day.

50 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:57:26am

We now have more than enough GOP sexual foibles to post a coherent view of their attitude. It is not just one or two that have been spectacularly caught boinking those whom they would preach should not be boinked. So just to understand the GOP position of sexuality…

The formal declaration of the GOP position.

Sex is bad, unless I am doing it.

Sex is evil and wrong, unless I am doing it.

Sex that is not missionary, with the lights out and through a hole in the sheet, may lead to distracting amounts of pleasure and corruption. It is therefore dangerous to maintaining order and control, unless I am doing it.

Gay sex is so immoral and inherently wrong that it must be purged from our society by any and all draconian means called for. Unless I am doing it.

Gay sex can be cured. But I do not personally need to be cured.

Abortion is wrong and evil, unless I, or the woman I knocked up, needs one.

As such, the obvious truth, is that since I am a fundamentally better person than you, who has different rules applied to them by God - as John Calvin wrote and the founding fathers clearly understood when they made this country a Christian nation, the issue is not what I do with my genitals, but rather proscribing what you do with yours. After all, you are not amongst the elect. I am, and it is necessary that we as your betters impose this control on you. See you in heaven if you make the list. But I doubt it you liberal feminist homo-lover.

51 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:57:43am

re: #48 MrSilverDragon

It was considered, but I’m already on a daily multi-pill diet and there could be interactions. I’ll kick it yet.

I would offer my services, but my travel is restricted.

52 MandyManners  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:57:48am

Can we stop talking about “yanking” and “grabbing” and “pulling” on a thread of this nature? Puh-leeze!

53 Interesting Times  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:57:54am

Caught hiking the Appalachian trail,
Souder’s an epic abstinence fail

54 abbyadams  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:58:27am

re: #43 Rightwingconspirator

Science says…yes!
Decision making in men leads to power, also to infidelity.

Not an excuse, though.

55 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:58:46am

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I would offer my services, but my travel is restricted.

This isn’t a “Cat’s Eye” thing, is it? If so… no thanks, not signing the contract.

56 MandyManners  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:58:52am

He got playing with his staff?

57 MandyManners  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:59:13am

re: #56 MandyManners

He got caught playing with his staff?

58 abbyadams  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:59:44am

re: #42 soap_man

Have a FOAF who is trying to quit, and has been on said pills for a long time. Didn’t help anyone but the Rx company, sez he. He’s finding more success with lifestyle changes and the patch.

Good luck to you!

59 truth stick  Tue, May 18, 2010 10:59:57am

re: #31 MrSilverDragon


(annoyed because I’m in the midst of quitting smoking, the patch is close to freaking useless)


I’ve tried the gum and patch, and in the process I found what did more good was something they call Blu cigs. They have nicotine in them, but it is just vaporized and you puff on them just the same. Helped me….good luck with your efforts.

60 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:00:17am

Well, at least he’s not gay.
/

61 Gus  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:01:03am

From Souder’s House website:

Intelligent Design & The Expelled Movie

In December 2006, my subcommittee staff completed an investigation of bias at the Smithsonian Institution and released a report entiteld: “Intolerance and the Politicization of Science at the Smithsonian Institution.”

The report concluded that the Smithsonian’s leadership permitted the harrassment and demotion of Dr. Richard v. Sternberg, a Research Associate at the National Museum of Natural History, because he allowed publication of an article favoring the theory of Intelligent Design in Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, a peer-reviewed biology journal published by the Biological Society of Washington.

The staff report was mentioned in “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed,” a documentary hosted by Ben Stein that was released nationwide in April 2008. A copy of the report may be downloaded here.

You may find out more about Darwinian Theory and Intelligent Design by visiting: [link to Explaining the Science of Intelligent Design]. If you’re specifically looking for books, I’d recommend that you visit the Books page on the Web site for the Discovery Institute’s Center for Science and Culture. I’d especially recommend: Darwin’s Black Box by Michael Behe, Signs of Intelligence by William Dembski and James Kushiner, and Darwin on Trial by Phillip Johnson.

62 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:01:18am

I honestly don’t give a shit who fucks who or why.

I do however take no small amount of delight in seeing “family values” types exposed for hypocrisy.

Where I stick my dick and what it does for me should NEVER be a political issue, assholes.

63 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:01:34am

I believe what’s really being pointed out is the hypocrisy of the political grandstanding that was being done. The “do what I say, not what I’m doing” action.

Beyond that the actions in violation of marriage vows and basically not being a person of honor is primarily private and between him and those he has the contract with. Aside from the fact that if they will cheat on that, how can you expect them to be trustworthy in public office?

These actions are not monopolized by either of the major parties. But you do see many more Republicans making statements in defense of “values” and then being caught with their pants around their ankles.

64 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:01:49am

re: #55 MrSilverDragon

This isn’t a “Cat’s Eye” thing, is it? If so… no thanks, not signing the contract.

Nothing like that. I just tackle you anytime I see you with a cigarette. Worked out for the last guy.

“Sgt Kragar, Chung just snuck behind the warehouse to smoke.”
stomp stomp stomp LEAP “RAWR!!!”
“AAAAAGGGHH!!!”

Got him to stop inside of 4 months.

65 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:01:55am

re: #52 MandyManners

Can we stop talking about “yanking” and “grabbing” and “pulling” on a thread of this nature? Puh-leeze!

Well I hear your point, but you have to admit that the GOP does more foibles leading to yanking than a Penthouse Letter.

It was dark in his office and he had been drinking scotch. He had called me in to discuss the latest polls. The senator had his tie loosened in a beckoning bad boy manner. He looked at me with that look, the one that makes my knees buckle, knowing he would soon be passing his bill through my capital hill…

66 MandyManners  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:02:14am

re: #62 Fozzie Bear

Well, now.

Feel better?

67 MandyManners  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:03:32am

re: #65 LudwigVanQuixote

Well I hear your point, but you have to admit that the GOP does more foibles leading to yanking than a Penthouse Letter.

It was dark in his office and he had been drinking scotch. He had called me in to discuss the latest polls. The senator had his tie loosened in a beckoning bad boy manner. He looked at me with that look, the one that makes my knees buckle, knowing he would soon be passing his bill through my capital hill…

If you ever wanna’ give up your day job, you have a future writing bodice-rippers.

68 Gus  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:03:40am
…In fact, the Democrat-controlled House of Representatives has passed “hate crimes” legislation that would treat homosexuals as a special class. Certain violent crimes committed against homosexuals would result in more severe penalties than if the same crimes were committed against heterosexuals.

Moreover, the debate is not about whether homosexuals in America have difficulty being hired for jobs or being accepted into college. Indeed, some colleges grant special preference to students who identify themselves as homosexual in their applications.

ENDA infringes on the ability of Christians, Jews and Muslims to exercise their religious rights. It represents a direct challenge to Christian bookstores and other Christian businesses, group homes and the Boy Scouts. Moreover, once liberal activist courts get involved (and does anyone doubt that they will?) there’s a good chance that it will interpreted to challenge church policies, too.

The Bible, the Torah and the Koran all condemn homosexuality. During debate on the House floor, Democrats repeatedly called such a view bigoted, prejudiced and hateful. And they passed legislation that would force all Americans to share their view (the subordination of religious rights to sexual orientation rights).

In today’s climate, no one is comfortable talking about this issue. But I spoke out and voted against ENDA because I felt it was necessary. I am sickened that even our founding principles are under direct assault by the liberals in Washington, D.C.


Mark Souder

69 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:03:45am

re: #65 LudwigVanQuixote

Well I hear your point, but you have to admit that the GOP does more foibles leading to yanking than a Penthouse Letter.

It was dark in his office and he had been drinking scotch. He had called me in to discuss the latest polls. The senator had his tie loosened in a beckoning bad boy manner. He looked at me with that look, the one that makes my knees buckle, knowing he would soon be passing his bill through my capital hill…

Oh Mr Congressman, I’m here for that position on your staff.

70 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:04:19am

re: #61 Gus 802

From Souder’s House website:

Intelligent Design & The Expelled Movie

ANY educated person who purports to believe in ID/creationism is likely to be consciously pandering to the ignorant, and is therefore ethically suspect across the board.

71 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:04:26am

re: #65 LudwigVanQuixote


Hmm. Interesting that you use first-person there…

72 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:04:34am

re: #66 MandyManners

I’ll feel better when the GOP agrees that kids need to be taught the actual biological facts of life, so they can make rational decisions based on reason, rather than be told to not do what hundreds of millions of years of evolution absolutely compel them to do.

73 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:04:38am

re: #62 Fozzie Bear

I honestly don’t give a shit who fucks who or why.

I do however take no small amount of delight in seeing “family values” types exposed for hypocrisy.

Where I stick my dick and what it does for me should NEVER be a political issue, assholes.

That’s why this these things are slightly bigger scandals with Republicans. This stuff always reflects on a persons honesty but with Dems it’s mostly a personal family issue. With “Family values” Republicans there’s the element of hypocrisy because they’re pushing it as a national agenda.

74 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:05:39am

re: #62 Fozzie Bear

I honestly don’t give a shit who fucks who or why.

I do however take no small amount of delight in seeing “family values” types exposed for hypocrisy.

Where I stick my dick and what it does for me should NEVER be a political issue, assholes.

But don’t you understand that if we can make you feel that you must listen to us to the extent that you can no longer stick your dick anywhere, except when we have approved it, we have absolute control over you on the most basic level.

Bow to your superiors.

See you in Heaven if you make the list… but I doubt it, you liberal, pleasure seeking homo loving feminist rebel against the natural order of things.

Accept that we in the GOP are superior to you and have been mandated since the beginning of creation to be that way.

75 MandyManners  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:05:54am

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh Mr Congressman, I’m here for that position on your staff.

Do you take DICtation?

76 Stanley Sea  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:06:02am

It’s the hypocrisy stupid!

Simple as that.

77 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:06:46am

re: #73 Killgore Trout

That’s why this these things are slightly bigger scandals with Republicans. This stuff always reflects on a persons honesty but with Dems it’s mostly a personal family issue. With “Family values” Republicans there’s the element of hypocrisy because they’re pushing it as a national agenda.

I wonder why this one resigned. Ensign and Sandford did their public penance (poorly in Sandford’s case, I might add) and stayed in office. Makes me think (hope?) there might be more to this story…

78 MandyManners  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:07:01am

re: #72 Fozzie Bear

I’ll feel better when the GOP agrees that kids need to be taught the actual biological facts of life, so they can make rational decisions based on reason, rather than be told to not do what hundreds of millions of years of evolution absolutely compel them to do.

I’m all for teaching abstinence but, kids should also be taught what to do if the flesh is weaker than the will.

79 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:07:23am

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nothing like that. I just tackle you anytime I see you with a cigarette. Worked out for the last guy.

“Sgt Kragar, Chung just snuck behind the warehouse to smoke.”
stomp stomp stomp LEAP “RAWR!!!”
“AAAGGGHH!!!”

Got him to stop inside of 4 months.

Sounds effective, but I’m a delicate flower…

/

80 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:07:26am

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh Mr Congressman, I’m here for that position on your staff.

Oh G-d, that was the best pun I’ve read in a very long time.

81 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:07:47am

re: #76 Stanley Sea

It’s the hypocrisy stupid!

Simple as that.

That what I was trying to get across in the last thread… I don’t think there is anything wrong with what Blumenthal said about his Vietnam service, it was just a misstatement, at least he was not being hypocritical.

82 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:08:11am

re: #77 JasonA

The only public penance that would make any sense is to abandon hypocritical and ridiculous political positions based on sexuality.

Sexuality has no place in the legal framework, except as regards sexual assault, rape, pedophilia, and the like. None whatsoever.

83 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:08:48am

re: #78 MandyManners

I’m all for teaching abstinence but, kids should also be taught what to do if the flesh is weaker than the will.

Kids are going to screw around. They’re kids. Teach them all the reasons not to, then teach them how to be safe when they do. Its the only sane course of action.

84 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:09:55am

re: #82 Fozzie Bear

The only public penance that would make any sense is to abandon hypocritical and ridiculous political positions based on sexuality.

Sexuality has no place in the legal framework, except as regards sexual assault, rape, pedophilia, and the like. None whatsoever.

Except as a way to impose control on those who feel the need to be controlled and are bitter at the freedoms of others.

Very seriously, when you read 1984, what was the point of Winston’s orgasm being a triumph of rebellion? Remember that the members of the inner party got laid when they wanted.

85 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:09:56am

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Kids are going to screw around. They’re kids. Teach them all the reasons not to, then teach them how to be safe when they do. Its the only sane course of action.

When I was growing up, the reason was really very simple and effective… because my father was going to beat the ever loving shit out of me if I tried anything like that.

86 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:10:05am

re: #79 MrSilverDragon

Sounds effective, but I’m a delicate flower…

/

It was great when his buddies called me on a Saturday night.

“Chung’s been drinking and bummed a smoke, he’s in his room right now.”
“I’ll be there in 20. Keep him busy.”

87 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:11:32am

re: #85 Walter L. Newton

Even if I knew for certain I would be publicly flayed alive if I were caught having sex, that would not have been an effective deterrent as a teenager.

You can’t fight biology.

88 MandyManners  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:12:01am

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Kids are going to screw around. They’re kids. Teach them all the reasons not to, then teach them how to be safe when they do. Its the only sane course of action.

Not all kids. But, I’d reckon a large percentage of them do the deed.

89 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:12:10am

So gay people getting married corrupts the word and the concept of marriage but fucking anything that moves while you are married is perfectly fine. Interesting perspective.

90 Olsonist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:12:18am
I’m sick of politicians who drag their spouses up in front of the cameras rather than confronting the problem they caused.

Translated into English:

My wife’s lawyered up already.
91 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:12:27am

re: #87 Fozzie Bear

Even if I knew for certain I would be publicly flayed alive if I were caught having sex, that would not have been an effective deterrent as a teenager.

You can’t fight biology.

I was only recounting my situation. It did fight biology. So you’re wrong.

92 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:13:15am

re: #85 Walter L. Newton

When I was growing up, the reason was really very simple and effective… because my father was going to beat the ever loving shit out of me if I tried anything like that.

Same. You didn’t misbehave with the same action twice in my household. Getting popped by my Dad once was enough, never did it again, at least not in front of him.

93 bluecheese  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:13:15am

So Kentucky polls close at 6pm?

Isn’t that kinda early?

94 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:13:32am

re: #49 MandyManners

Thanks Mandy! *blush*

95 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:13:58am

re: #50 LudwigVanQuixote

Hypocrisy is hardly unique to the GOP.

96 Olsonist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:14:19am

re: #95 Spare O’Lake

Hypocrisy is hardly unique to the GOP.

No, they’re just better at it.

97 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:14:37am

re: #85 Walter L. Newton

When I was growing up, the reason was really very simple and effective… because my father was going to beat the ever loving shit out of me if I tried anything like that.

I remained chaste the old fashinoned way, lack of opportunity.

98 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:15:22am

re: #97 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I remained chaste the old fashinoned way, lack of opportunity.

I went to an all-boys high school. Ugh.

99 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:17:22am

re: #98 JasonA

I went to an all-boys high school. Ugh.

Late bloomer, plus a lack of reliable transportation.

100 Walter L. Newton  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:17:28am

re: #92 Locker

Same. You didn’t misbehave with the same action twice in my household. Getting popped by my Dad once was enough, never did it again, at least not in front of him.

There was never once, and there was never enough. In our household violence was chaotic and arbitrary. It was not metered out in response to something, smacking and punching and slapping was a preventative exercise, designed to show how life wasn’t fair, and that you needed to be prepared at all times to protect yourself.

101 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:18:28am

re: #95 Spare O’Lake

This particular brand of it is certainly vastly more prevalent in the GOP, however.

102 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:19:18am

OT: A cop-beating I can get behind.
Saudi woman beats up virtue cop

103 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:20:26am

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

There was never once, and there was never enough. In our household violence was chaotic and arbitrary. It was not metered out in response to something, smacking and punching and slapping was a preventative exercise, designed to show how life wasn’t fair, and that you needed to be prepared at all times to protect yourself.

Definitely not the same. My dad didn’t yell.. he barely spoke, didn’t ground you, didn’t lecture, didn’t take away allowance he just hit. However, he was as impartial as a referee and he never even seemed that upset.

He was so impartial that he knocked one of my friends right out of his chair at the dining room when he reached for a roll before we said grace. I tried to warn him…

104 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:20:39am

re: #95 Spare O’Lake

Hypocrisy is hardly unique to the GOP.

No need to worry. This site had fun with Edwards and Spitzer when their little heads got the better of them.

105 palomino  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:20:43am

Souder: “nothing in the GAO report says abstinence education doesn’t work.” Maybe so, but lots of other studies suggest abstinence education deosn’t work. It certainly didn’t work for Rep. Souder.

Abstinence education? Great, just one more thing the right wants us to be afraid of—sex.

It must have been all this talk of abstinence and the forbidden fruit that got the Congressman and his aide all lustful.

106 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:20:53am

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

are we related?

107 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:21:51am

re: #102 JasonA

OT: A cop-beating I can get behind.
Saudi woman beats up virtue cop

I’m going to invest in Arabic versions of “F*** the Police” ASAP.

108 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:21:58am

I think the GOP should just simplify it’s platform a little to “FEAR YOUR GENITALS” and be done with it.

109 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:22:39am

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Kids are going to screw around. They’re kids. Teach them all the reasons not to, then teach them how to be safe when they do. Its the only sane course of action.

You know it is not as if there aren’t billions of years of evolution dictating that we are going to boink.

Any sensible approach to the discussion must start from the premise that not only will people d it, but they will find ways to do it, no matter how harsh you get.

How many of us here didn’t sneak off with a girlfriend or boyfriend when we were teens? Seriously…How many? I would bet that less than one in ten lizards was still a virgin by age 20. Though I confess, at the village of the banned, it is possible that half of them are still virgins. But I digress, I am talking about normal functioning people.

This is yet another case of the GOP thinking that facts of nature are subservient to dogma. Just say no is not going to happen. Every normal person will (no pun intended) seek an outlet sooner or later - unless they ave the most compelling reasons not to. While there may be some individuals that can handle celibacy, there is not one large group of people on the planet that can do so well for long. I wonder how many nuns have mechanical aids hidden away. We know from the news that thousands (possibly tens of thousands) of priests frequently have even more severe issues than just illicit consensual sex with a grown woman.

So what you need to do, is teach people that there are consequences to acting on impulses and make certain that when they do act on those impulses, they do so safely. The argument that people will cheat more on their spouses if they are educated about the birds and the bees is nonsense. However, the argument that repression of information will only lead to unwanted pregnancy, spread of disease and all manner of neurosis, is absolutely the case.

110 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:23:55am

re: #95 Spare O’Lake

Hypocrisy is hardly unique to the GOP.

No, but this sort of hypocrisy is all their own. You know it and I know it. If Nancy Pelosi came out tomorrow that she had three twenty year old boy toys, the typical Dem response would be good for her.

111 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:24:10am

re: #108 Fozzie Bear

I think the GOP should just simplify it’s platform a little to “FEAR YOUR GENITALS” and be done with it.

Uhh they have….

112 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:24:12am

re: #68 Gus 802

And in Toronto, the Police have classified the use of the Jewish word “shiksa” as a possible hate crime!

The 2009 shiksa incident, classified as “mischief,” happened in 53 Division, a central uptown area colloquially known among police as “Sleepy Hollow” because it includes the city’s most pleasant residential communities, including some of the Jewish neighbourhoods around Bathurst and Lawrence.

It is not known whether a charge was laid, or a prosecution successful.
www.nationalpost.com

113 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:25:40am

re: #110 LudwigVanQuixote

No, but this sort of hypocrisy is all their own. You know it and I know it. If Nancy Pelosi came out tomorrow that she had three twenty year old boy toys, the typical Dem response would be good for her.

That depends. Did she earn them or are they Rentboys?

114 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:25:45am

re: #96 Olsonist

No, they’re just better at it.

That’s what my girlfriends tell me.
I wish.

115 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:27:36am

re: #112 Spare O’Lake

And in Toronto, the Police have classified the use of the Jewish word “shiksa” as a possible hate crime!

Clearly the law was passed by a shaigitz.

For those who don’t know Yiddish, a shaigitz is the masculine form of a shiksa.

116 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:28:48am

The only moral implication to sex is that it (well if it’s good anyway) involves other people. So, the potential negative logical implications of that are:
1. Unwanted pregnancy
2. Disease, Injury
3. Victimization (rape, incest, molestation, assault)

That’s it. Anything outside that has no place in a legal system, at all, ever. I would go further to say that anyone who would attempt to prevent educating people as to how best to avoid those negatives, is essentially advocating for the spread of disease and unwanted pregnancy. Their actual motives matter not, as that is the result, ultimately.

117 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:29:37am

re: #110 LudwigVanQuixote

No, but this sort of hypocrisy is all their own. You know it and I know it. If Nancy Pelosi came out tomorrow that she had three twenty year old boy toys, the typical Dem response would be good for her.

So the typical dem would think it was cool if she was cheating on her husband. Interesting

118 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:29:41am

re: #98 JasonA

I went to an all-boys high school. Ugh.

Yeah but then you went to college…

As for me, coed education was a blessing ;)

119 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:30:05am

re: #117 cliffster

So the typical dem would think it was cool if she was cheating on her husband. Interesting

No the typical Dem would not think it was any of our business.

120 waltersafety  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:31:09am

Uh, can someone from Indiana explain to me what the freaking hell is with the congressman’s hair in that video?

I hope he didn’t pay money for that. Maybe bed-head from off screen?

(Yeah, I went there.)

121 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:31:13am

re: #119 LudwigVanQuixote

No the typical Dem would not think it was any of our business.

For all we know her husband could be cool with it.

122 Stanley Sea  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:32:02am

Vice President Joe Biden’s son left the hospital Tuesday, a week after what doctors said was a mild stroke.

123 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:32:21am

re: #117 cliffster

So the typical dem would think it was cool if she was cheating on her husband. Interesting

I think the reaction would generally be more along the lines of “as long as she isn’t making my sexual behavior the business of government, then it is none of my business how she handles same privately.”

I don’t give a rat’s ass who sleeps with who, unless they attempt to make my sexuality their business. Then, it’s war as far as I’m concerned.

124 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:32:44am

re: #119 LudwigVanQuixote

No the typical Dem would not think it was any of our business.

Yeah right.

125 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:32:52am

re: #105 palomino

Souder: “nothing in the GAO report says abstinence education doesn’t work.” Maybe so, but lots of other studies suggest abstinence education deosn’t work. It certainly didn’t work for Rep. Souder.

Abstinence education? Great, just one more thing the right wants us to be afraid of—sex.

It must have been all this talk of abstinence and the forbidden fruit that got the Congressman and his aide all lustful.

Commn sense says it won’t work. Of all the places where you know the GOP has never particularly let the real world interfere with their statements of how the universe works, the whole notion that just telling kids to say no, when they are at the height of teenage rebellion and have more hormones coursing through their bodies than an adult system could handle without dying, will have any positive effect, is amongst the most compelling that they are utterly divorced from reality.

126 teleskiguy  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:33:02am

This reminds me of this classic Daily Show clip.
The Global War in Your Pantswww.thedailyshow.comPolitical Humor

127 General Nimrod Bodfish  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:33:02am

I don’t understand the mindset of these “Family Values” (a bit misleading nowadays, don’t ya think?) types who want to legislate what we do in the bedroom. I’ll admit that I don’t understand why a man/woman would want to engage in sexual activities with another man/woman (coming from a heterosexual mindset), but, frankly, I don’t give a damn if the two consenting adults are gay or straight. It’s their business, not mine. I wouldn’t like it if someone told me I would burn in Hell for something I like, so I won’t tell someone to burn in Hell for being gay. Gays, to me, are the same people as straights. The only difference is their sexual preference. And I’m comfortable with that.

When I was in high school, I actually had a bit of a crush on a girl. Imagine my surprise when I found out she was gay. I just shrugged it off and moved on with my life. And there were two lesbians in high school, and no one gave a damn about it, and neither did I. I was friends with one of them, and it never entered my mind about her sexuality, and it never hurt the friendship at all.

There was a time in my life where I was against gay marriage. Now, I’m all for it. Gay, straight, trans-gender, whatever. If they are American citizens, they should have the same rights, regardless of gender, ethnicity, or sexual orientation.

I loathe those that try to push their bigoted views on to others. It’s why we must expose them for what they are, mock them and shun them for it, and vote them out of office. Charles is doing a damn fine job of it, but he’s only one man, and, as we have seen, there’s an ocean of ignorance swelling amongst the Republican party that support bigots, Dark Ages mindsets, and misogyny. And it saddens me that, as a person with some conservative leanings, I’m watching a viable party that I’ve voted for since I’ve turned 18 disintegrate into a bubbling mass of stupid.

Thankfully, Souder won’t be trying to push idiocy into law now, but for everyone one that resigns, there will be several who will take his place.

128 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:33:17am

Going to Extreme

Utah Republicans have denied Robert Bennett, a very conservative three-term senator, a place on the ballot, because he’s not conservative enough. In Maine, party activists have pushed through a platform calling for, among other things, abolishing both the Federal Reserve and the Department of Education. And it’s becoming ever more apparent that real power within the G.O.P. rests with the ranting talk-show hosts.

News organizations have taken notice: suddenly, the takeover of the Republican Party by right-wing extremists has become a story (although many reporters seem determined to pretend that something equivalent is happening to the Democrats. It isn’t.) But why is this happening? And in particular, why is it happening now?

The right’s answer, of course, is that it’s about outrage over President Obama’s “socialist” policies — like his health care plan, which is, um, more or less identical to the plan Mitt Romney enacted in Massachusetts. Many on the left argue, instead, that it’s about race, the shock of having a black man in the White House — and there’s surely something to that.

But I’d like to offer two alternative hypotheses: First, Republican extremism was there all along — what’s changed is the willingness of the news media to acknowledge it. Second, to the extent that the power of the party’s extremists really is on the rise, it’s the economy, stupid.

129 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:33:54am

re: #121 JasonA

For all we know her husband could be cool with it.

For all we know he is player number 5.

The bottom line is that if you have someone in their sixties or seventies getting a lot of action you should be happy that such things are possible.

130 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:34:00am

GOP Logic: Smaller government, less regulation. Oh, unless it has to do with sex. Let’s regulate the hell out of that.

131 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:34:13am

re: #119 LudwigVanQuixote

No the typical Dem would not think it was any of our business.

The voter that would easily vote for a guy shown to be a philanderer is few and far between. If you think otherwise, then you’re just believing what you want to believe.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:34:38am

re: #32 Boondock St. Bender

“spare my family”???should have thought of that before deuchebag.

I couldn’t be bothered to think of them, but you folks certainly should…

133 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:35:03am

She is boinkable, but he’s not.

134 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:36:18am

re: #133 darthstar

She is boinkable, but he’s not.

But he’s hung like a new born.

10” long, 9 lbs 6 oz.

135 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:36:47am

re: #134 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

ew

136 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:36:53am

re: #133 darthstar

She is boinkable, but he’s not.

Pelosi might explode, or deflate, or something even worse.

137 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:37:00am

re: #134 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Like a baby’s arm holding a plum I tell you.

138 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:37:44am

re: #137 Fozzie Bear

Like a baby’s arm holding a plum I tell you.

I call it the Kickstand.

139 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:38:52am

This made me laugh out loud, Charles, as I first tried playing the removed video, then scrolled down to see the second one.

UPDATE at 5/18/10 10:38:38 am:

Souder has now deleted his video from YouTube.

UPDATE at 5/18/10 10:52:19 am:

Of course, in the Internet era, trying to hide something like this is futile.


14 minutes…he managed to do damage control for 14 minutes.

140 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:38:53am

Can we please get off talking about penises?

Oh wait…

141 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:39:32am

re: #140 JasonA

You’re right, we should rigidly avoid this sort of thing.

142 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:39:41am

re: #136 Spare O’Lake

Pelosi might explode, or deflate, or something even worse.

I didn’t see Nancy Pelosi in the video. Are you on the same channel?

143 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:40:06am

re: #141 Fozzie Bear

You’re right, we should rigidly avoid this sort of thing.

No need to take such a hard stand.

144 Mark Pennington  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:40:29am

Charles said weenies! LOL

145 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:40:47am

re: #141 Fozzie Bear

You’re right, we should rigidly avoid this sort of thing.

As hard as that may be.

146 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:41:04am

re: #143 darthstar

Sometimes I can’t help it. I just dive right in and start spouting off all over the place.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:41:10am

re: #89 Locker

So gay people getting married corrupts the word and the concept of marriage but fucking anything that moves while you are married is perfectly fine. Interesting perspective.

Or can at least be forgiven after you mention God and your wife in a packaged speech.

148 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:41:13am

re: #131 cliffster

The voter that would easily vote for a guy shown to be a philanderer is few and far between. If you think otherwise, then you’re just believing what you want to believe.

Really, that is what Benjamin Franklin’s political opponents tried to nail him with when news of his exploits in Paris hit America. The typical response in the American press, top the fact that an 80 year old American was getting his fair share of 19 year old French girls was “Go Ben Go!”

Now I will grant that he was a widower at the time. Adultery is an issue that matters. However, it is also something between the two spouses and God. It is not for you or me to comment on unless we have a personal attachment to one of the human parties involved.

But even then, most Americans secretly thought that Jack Kennedy gained status for banging Marilyn Monroe, not lost it. Had Monica Lewinsky been really hot and famous, it would not have had the political traction it did.

149 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:41:20am

re: #143 darthstar

No need to take such a hard stand.

Some people are just too stiff.

150 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:41:37am

re: #140 JasonA

Can we please get off talking about penises?

Oh wait…

Thank you for calling a halt to this childish nonsense.
BTW, does anyone know the difference between an English cucumber and an American cucumber?

151 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:41:38am

I can’t think of another pun so I’ll go with throbbing love sausage.

152 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:41:40am

re: #130 Fozzie Bear

GOP Logic: Smaller government, less regulation. Oh, unless it has to do with sex. Let’s regulate the hell out of that.

Smaller government members, maybe. So when will he be asked if he wore protection while boinking his aide?

153 Mark Pennington  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:41:41am

re: #139 darthstar

This made me laugh out loud, Charles, as I first tried playing the removed video, then scrolled down to see the second one.


14 minutes…he managed to do damage control for 14 minutes.

I posted it a while ago on Linkage. I guess I need to go change the youtube url…

154 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:42:44am

re: #152 darthstar

Smaller government members, maybe. So when will he be asked if he wore protection while boinking his aide?

SINNER!

155 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:42:44am

re: #133 darthstar

She is boinkable, but he’s not.

Again, when we see a fat loser like him getting some from an attractive woman, we should not rush to condemn. Rather, we should be grateful that women are still attracted to us if we turn into fat slobs.

156 teleskiguy  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:42:44am

The penis … mightier than the sword.

Oh wait …

That’s actually … The pen is mightier than the sword.

My bad. ((snicker))

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:42:50am

re: #110 LudwigVanQuixote

No, but this sort of hypocrisy is all their own. You know it and I know it. If Nancy Pelosi came out tomorrow that she had three twenty year old boy toys, the typical Dem response would be good for her.

??? I would be a little shocked. I expect better from a married Catholic grandma. Now, if she was single…

158 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:43:34am

re: #151 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I can’t think of another pun so I’ll go with throbbing love sausage.

Is this really the place to insert such comments?

159 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:44:16am

re: #158 JasonA

Is this really the place to insert such comments?

Would quivering love pudding be more appropriate?

160 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:44:22am

I’ve said a thousand time…”Nothing surprises me anymore”!
I was wrong!
SHE”S ( a cutie) is doing HIM???

161 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:44:29am

re: #134 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But he’s hung like a new born.

10” long, 9 lbs 6 oz.

When I was 8 days old, I lost 3lbs….

162 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:44:44am

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

??? I would be a little shocked. I expect better from a married Catholic grandma. Now, if she was single…

From San Francisco?

163 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:45:16am

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

??? I would be a little shocked. I expect better from a married Catholic grandma. Now, if she was single…

I hear that. I would be surprised, but I would not see it as my business either. Then again, I am not a Dem, and I may be projecting.

164 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:45:36am

re: #150 Spare O’Lake

Thank you for calling a halt to this childish nonsense.
BTW, does anyone know the difference between an English cucumber and an American cucumber?

The English ones are seedless, and more solid through the fruit. As a result, they also don’t have that slightly sour pulpy stuff in the middle.

Better for sandwiches, but I much prefer the American varieties for salads.

165 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:45:43am

re: #161 LudwigVanQuixote

When I was 8 days old, I lost 3lbs…

But is was a lovely Bris.

166 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:45:57am

re: #159 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Would quivering love pudding be more appropriate?

I find your jokes to be a little limp today.

167 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:46:00am

re: #142 darthstar

I didn’t see Nancy Pelosi in the video. Are you on the same channel?

I thought we were watching Botox Bubbies Part III.

168 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:46:05am

re: #162 JasonA

From San Francisco?

We do get married out here.

169 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:46:28am

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh Mr Congressman, I’m here for that position on your staff.

Rotating title nomination!

170 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:47:32am

re: #169 Floral Giraffe

Rotating title nomination!


And it was comment “69”…*snicker*

171 webevintage  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:47:37am

Looks like Rand Paul supporters are getting a bit rambunctious in KY today:

www.kentucky.com

“Paul’s campaign manager, David Adams, called the allegations “dubious,” saying Democrats may have been behind the incidents.”

WTH?
Why would Democrats care about Rand Paul bringing his form of crazy to the Republican ticket?

172 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:48:03am

Wow…once again, the morning family bible study comes through.

1 Samuel 15:22
To obey is better than sacrifice.

In other words, to keep it in your pants (with a woman other than your wife) is better than making a whole bunch of “helpful” videos and public apologies.

173 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:48:13am

re: #146 Fozzie Bear

Sometimes I can’t help it. I just dive right in and start spouting off all over the place.

Premature explication…so sad.

174 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:49:24am

re: #156 teleskiguy

The penis … mightier than the sword.

Oh wait …

That’s actually … The pen is mightier than the sword.

My bad. ((snicker))

The pen is envy. (Margaret Atwood - The Handmaid’s Tale)

175 webevintage  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:50:23am

re: #131 cliffster

The voter that would easily vote for a guy shown to be a philanderer is few and far between. If you think otherwise, then you’re just believing what you want to believe.

I think if he wanted Eliot Spitzer could get re-elected.

Personally I don’t care if a pol messes around on their spouse unless they have a habit of spewing things about family values whenever in front of a crowd.

176 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:50:43am

re: #131 cliffster

The voter that would easily vote for a guy shown to be a philanderer is few and far between. If you think otherwise, then you’re just believing what you want to believe.

And one other thing. NOted, known philanderer Presidents.

George Washington,
Abe Lincoln,
TR,
FDR,
Jack Kennedy.

I would take any of those men over Obama any day.

Elizabeth I boinked a lot too. If there were some way to ressurect her and make her a president rather than a monarch, I would vote for her in a heartbeat as well.

And so would you.

177 teleskiguy  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:51:12am

LGF commenters are flippin’ hilarious when something like this comes up! Keep up the snark my fellow lizards!

BBL

178 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:51:57am

re: #176 LudwigVanQuixote

And one other thing. NOted, known philanderer Presidents.

George Washington,
Abe Lincoln,
TR,
FDR,
Jack Kennedy.

I would take any of those men over Obama any day.

Elizabeth I boinked a lot too. If there were some way to ressurect her and make her a president rather than a monarch, I would vote for her in a heartbeat as well.

And so would you.

What is your evidence for philandering on the part of the first three? I don’t mean flirty letters exchanged before marriage, either.

179 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:52:12am

re: #171 webevintage

Looks like Rand Paul supporters are getting a bit rambunctious in KY today:

[Link: www.kentucky.com…]

“Paul’s campaign manager, David Adams, called the allegations “dubious,” saying Democrats may have been behind the incidents.”

WTH?
Why would Democrats care about Rand Paul bringing his form of crazy to the Republican ticket?

I have a practical suggestion:
Since Democrats and Paulians will both be celebrating Paul’s victory tonight, they should call a truce, combine their orders for booze and strippers, and try to get a volume discount.

180 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:52:44am

re: #176 LudwigVanQuixote
Ben Franklin was smart not to run for POTUS…Or did he?
He was a Tom Cat….My hero!

181 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:52:57am

re: #110 LudwigVanQuixote

No, but this sort of hypocrisy is all their own. You know it and I know it. If Nancy Pelosi came out tomorrow that she had three twenty year old boy toys, the typical Dem response would be good for her.

Yep…because she’s never claimed to be sexually retarded repressed as Souder has. If he had said he loves boinking women and that he and his wife have an open marriage (which, I’m guessing, they don’t) and that he still believed in abstinence only education, then it wouldn’t be such a big deal…at least he would have been honest about his hypocrisy.

182 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:53:04am

re: #175 webevintage

I think if he wanted Eliot Spitzer could get re-elected.

Personally I don’t care if a pol messes around on their spouse unless they have a habit of spewing things about family values whenever in front of a crowd.

I don’t know, that’s a tough one. A guy’s married, he shouldn’t fuck around on his wife. If he does, that says something about him, and “this guy will faithfully execute his office” is not what it says. I’m not saying it’s a be-all-end-all, but it’ll give one pause.

183 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:54:23am

I can accept sexual hypocrisy as en exclusive Republican issue if no conservative Dem’s have cheated, and no priests that are registered Democrats have cheated.

CNN showed an interesting study, that usually shows how emotionally loaded the argument is rather than the science. The article has the science. The reactions shows the politics of the readers.
Study: Abstinence program most effective at delaying sex among youths

184 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:55:12am

re: #176 LudwigVanQuixote

And one other thing. NOted, known philanderer Presidents.

George Washington,
Abe Lincoln,
TR,
FDR,
Jack Kennedy.

I would take any of those men over Obama any day.

Elizabeth I boinked a lot too. If there were some way to ressurect her and make her a president rather than a monarch, I would vote for her in a heartbeat as well.

And so would you.

I should have been more careful with the phrase “Elizabeth I boinked a lot too.” While I did have a very serious relationship with a woman named Elizabeth once, I was referring to the actions of Elizabeth I, not my involvement with the monarch.

185 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:55:19am

As long as the politician didn’t make his platform all telling people what they can do in the bedroom, I don’t really care how he spends his free time. What goes on between consenting adults, goes on between consenting adults. As long as he isn’t trying to sneak behind anyones back and is getting his job done, more power to him. If I agreed with his political positions, I’d vote for the guy.

This guy was a liar, a hypocrite and a cheat. He can go fuck himself.

186 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:56:41am

re: #176 LudwigVanQuixote

And one other thing. NOted, known philanderer Presidents.

George Washington,
Abe Lincoln,
TR,
FDR,
Jack Kennedy.

I would take any of those men over Obama any day.

Elizabeth I boinked a lot too. If there were some way to ressurect her and make her a president rather than a monarch, I would vote for her in a heartbeat as well.

And so would you.

Yes, but none of them had a spouse like Michelle Obama.

187 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:56:51am

re: #184 LudwigVanQuixote
Thanks for clearing THAT UP!!
I thought…..Ah…DUDE!!

188 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:57:08am

re: #185 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Does the wife give consent too?
Otherwise the husband is a cheat and a liar. Some of the things we admire least in our leadership.

189 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:57:54am

Just imagine if “consenting adults” meant the spouse had to consent too…
///

190 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:57:57am

re: #188 Rightwingconspirator

Does the wife give consent too?
Otherwise the husband is a cheat and a liar. Some of the things we admire least in our leadership.

Like I said, no sneaking behind anyone’s back.

191 webevintage  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:58:05am

re: #183 Rightwingconspirator

CNN showed an interesting study, that usually shows how emotionally loaded the argument is rather than the science. The article has the science. The reactions shows the politics of the readers.
Study: Abstinence program most effective at delaying sex among youths

Yes, it helped delay the the age at which the kids had sex and that is a good thing, but in the end it does not keep them from having sex as teenagers.
Just pushes the age up a bit.
So in the end you still need to provide comprehensive, truth based sex education to teens.

192 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:58:15am

re: #190 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Agreed!

193 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:58:23am

re: #189 Rightwingconspirator

Just imagine if “consenting adults” meant the spouse had to consent too…
///

And in some cases, they do.

194 Olsonist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:58:42am

re: #176 LudwigVanQuixote

You left out Clinton. He boinked quite a bit and I’d take him over Obama as well. And I voted for Obama and I probably will again. Lack of boinking does not make a man great and boinking in and of itself does not disqualify a man. But there’s this lying about it with moral certitude that Republicans and Christian Conservatives seem to have perfected.

Oh, and I were lucky enough to be married to Michelle Obama, I wouldn’t bother boinking around either.

195 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:59:11am

Fair enough, but well… not mine! :-)>

196 webevintage  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:59:40am

re: #182 cliffster

I don’t know, that’s a tough one. A guy’s married, he shouldn’t fuck around on his wife. If he does, that says something about him, and “this guy will faithfully execute his office” is not what it says. I’m not saying it’s a be-all-end-all, but it’ll give one pause.

You know, I’m probably full of bull shit because John Edwards just makes me ill.

197 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 11:59:41am

re: #185 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

As long as the politician didn’t make his platform all telling people what they can do in the bedroom, I don’t really care how he spends his free time. What goes on between consenting adults, goes on between consenting adults. As long as he isn’t trying to sneak behind anyones back and is getting his job done, more power to him. If I agreed with his political positions, I’d vote for the guy.

This guy was a liar, a hypocrite and a cheat. He can go fuck himself.

I know having an affair is so blaise these days, but why? Is it so horrible to expect a man to be faithful to his wife? And let’s get real here. This is a man’s issue. I’m well informed that women cheat, but find me ONE woman politician who had an affair on her husband.

I think it’s a sad comment that the affair doesn’t matter. It sure does to me. It sure does if you’ve ever been cheated on.

198 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:00:28pm

re: #194 Olsonist

Oh, and I were lucky enough to be married to Michelle Obama, I wouldn’t bother boinking around either.

Not unless you wanted your testicles served to you for dinner.

199 Renaissance_Man  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:00:40pm

re: #183 Rightwingconspirator


CNN showed an interesting study, that usually shows how emotionally loaded the argument is rather than the science. The article has the science. The reactions shows the politics of the readers.
Study: Abstinence program most effective at delaying sex among youths

Note that that study asks only about one, very narrow, question: do abstinence programmes delay or reduce sexual activity in the short term among very early teens?

Apparently they do. They reduce the rate of sexual activity from 40-50% or so to about 33%. That’s something, and it’s not a surprising result. However, one wonders if the rate of sexually transmitted diseases or teen pregnancy is any lower with abstinence programmes versus other methods. One wonders if abstinence programmes among teens, with a higher rate of sexual activity, work as well.

200 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:01:16pm

re: #178 EmmmieG

What is your evidence for philandering on the part of the first three? I don’t mean flirty letters exchanged before marriage, either.

Well, IN the case of GW, it was common and expected for a Gentleman of his position to have a mistress. We should include Jefferson in that list as well. there are polite references to his mistresses in the common talk amongst his colleagues and instructions from his estates for their upkeep. The only major founding father who did not get around was John Adams. He was deeply in love with his wife.

IN the case of Abe Lincoln, he was suffering from syphilis. He had long before grown estranged from his wife’s bed. Mary Todd Lincoln did not have syphilis.

TR had his exploits. Much like the case of GW and the founding fathers, it was just something that was understood, and it was not made a big deal about, however, he certainly kept the company of and paid for the expenses of several young and attractive women.

FDR is very famous for this. He had his main Mistress sitting next to his wife at his inauguration. Eleanor, famously refused his bed for the rest of his marriage, but they remained friendly and conveniently, to both of them, married.

201 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:01:33pm

re: #176 LudwigVanQuixote

See that’s exactly the point I think.

Whatever you think of Obama, he is a fucking saint to his wife and kids. But, here’s the thing: That doesn’t matter, at all, for the performance of his job as president. We have succumbed to the cult of personality above substance. I would caution anyone who voted for Obama just because he seems like a neat guy to do some reading on his positions on the issues, and vote accordingly. The whole Obama farts rainbows meme is proof enough of that.

I happen to like Obama, and will probably vote for him in 2012, but it doesn’t have anything to do with who he is as a person. I thought he was the better choice in 2008, and barring some really surprising development, I don’t see the GOP presenting me with a viable alternative. (I would be amazed, frankly)

People need to start thinking about what leadership qualities they value, what political philosophy, and what positions they hold on issues important to them, THEN choose the candidate that best reflects those views. I don’t care if they are gay, straight, ugly, beautiful, whatever.

202 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:01:57pm

re: #186 Spare O’Lake

Yes, but none of them had a spouse like Michelle Obama.

I don’t think that Obama would stray actually. He seems very in love with his wife, and good for them.

203 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:02:12pm

re: #196 webevintage
If I ran into John Edwards I’d put him in a head lock and give him
“Nugie”! He’d run back to his limo with his breifcase on his head!
Not my hair ..Not my hair…!

204 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:02:33pm

re: #197 marjoriemoon

I know having an affair is so blaise these days, but why? Is it so horrible to expect a man to be faithful to his wife? And let’s get real here. This is a man’s issue. I’m well informed that women cheat, but find me ONE woman politician who had an affair on her husband.

I think it’s a sad comment that the affair doesn’t matter. It sure does to me. It sure does if you’ve ever been cheated on.

I hear you but I really don’t think human monogamy is a natural thing and affairs seem to be the result of trying to jam a man into a monogamous relationship for which is is not suited or equipped.

Some folks do it but I am not at all surprised when affairs happen. Being a man for about five minutes makes that abundantly clear.

205 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:03:06pm

re: #200 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, IN the case of GW, it was common and expected for a Gentleman of his position to have a mistress. We should include Jefferson in that list as well. there are polite references to his mistresses in the common talk amongst his colleagues and instructions from his estates for their upkeep. The only major founding father who did not get around was John Adams. He was deeply in love with his wife.

IN the case of Abe Lincoln, he was suffering from syphilis. He had long before grown estranged from his wife’s bed. Mary Todd Lincoln did not have syphilis.

TR had his exploits. Much like the case of GW and the founding fathers, it was just something that was understood, and it was not made a big deal about, however, he certainly kept the company of and paid for the expenses of several young and attractive women.

FDR is very famous for this. He had his main Mistress sitting next to his wife at his inauguration. Eleanor, famously refused his bed for the rest of his marriage, but they remained friendly and conveniently, to both of them, married.

It was common? Not good enough. Name names.

I’m not be prudish. I’m being a historian.

206 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:04:27pm

re: #205 EmmmieG

It was more than common. It was very rare for gentlemen of means to NOT have mistresses.

207 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:05:32pm

re: #200 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, IN the case of GW, it was common and expected for a Gentleman of his position to have a mistress. We should include Jefferson in that list as well. there are polite references to his mistresses in the common talk amongst his colleagues and instructions from his estates for their upkeep. The only major founding father who did not get around was John Adams. He was deeply in love with his wife.

IN the case of Abe Lincoln, he was suffering from syphilis. He had long before grown estranged from his wife’s bed. Mary Todd Lincoln did not have syphilis.

TR had his exploits. Much like the case of GW and the founding fathers, it was just something that was understood, and it was not made a big deal about, however, he certainly kept the company of and paid for the expenses of several young and attractive women.

FDR is very famous for this. He had his main Mistress sitting next to his wife at his inauguration. Eleanor, famously refused his bed for the rest of his marriage, but they remained friendly and conveniently, to both of them, married.

Lincoln also got freaky with Joshua Speed (wife’s distant relative) or such is the scuttlebutt.

208 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:05:47pm

re: #199 Renaissance_Man

All worth a good objective look. De-politicizing this subject is the first essential step to accuracy. Otherwise it’s all noise and fury, no worthwhile results.

209 webevintage  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:06:26pm

And i’m not saying that screwing around on your spouse is not a shitty thing to do.
It is.
And it is even worse if you are a pol because then your wife or husband ends up getting to be humiliated all over TV while you apologize for being such a shit.
But it still would not stop me from voting for someone…except John Edwards ‘cause he is just a dog.

210 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:06:39pm

re: #204 Locker

I hear you but I really don’t think human monogamy is a natural thing and affairs seem to be the result of trying to jam a man into a monogamous relationship for which is is not suited or equipped.

Some folks do it but I am not at all surprised when affairs happen. Being a man for about five minutes makes that abundantly clear.

With due respect, that’s bullshit.

He doesn’t have to marry. If he wants to have many women, he can stay single.

211 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:07:04pm

re: #183 Rightwingconspirator

I can accept sexual hypocrisy as en exclusive Republican issue if no conservative Dem’s have cheated, and no priests that are registered Democrats have cheated.

CNN showed an interesting study, that usually shows how emotionally loaded the argument is rather than the science. The article has the science. The reactions shows the politics of the readers.
Study: Abstinence program most effective at delaying sex among youths

So liberal Dems are free to cheat? Or are you saying that only conservative Democrats are expected not to cheat?

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy. People who claim to be moral role models don’t cheat any more than those who don’t…it just looks worse when you claim one thing and do another (see Craig, Haggard, Foley, Sanford, Souder, Rekers, etc…) That’s what makes it fun to mock them. Who was that Democratic idiot who liked to tickle his male aides? He’s no better…but not all Republicans who cheat are hypocrites…John McCain admitted he liked banging younger blondes so much he left his wife for one…she also happened to be quite wealthy (good score John!).

212 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:07:04pm

Yikes!

Secret Service probes Ala. teacher geometry lesson

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) — The Secret Service questioned an Alabama teacher after school officials said he used an hypothetical example of shooting at the president to teach geometric angles.

The teacher at Corner High School in Birmingham was not identified Tuesday by the Jefferson County school district.

Senior Joseph Brown told the Birmingham News that the teacher “was talking about angles and said, ‘If you’re in this building, you would need to take this angle to shoot the president.’”

The Secret Service interviewed the teacher after authorities were notified, determined there was not a credible threat and closed the investigation.

Superintendent Phil Hammonds says the teacher showed extremely poor judgment but there are no plans to fire him.

That depends entirely on which window you shoot from and how many accomplices you have on the grassy knoll.

213 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:07:31pm

re: #209 webevintage

If it’s an open marriage, it’s rude not to invite her/him to join in.
;-)>

214 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:07:33pm

re: #202 LudwigVanQuixote

I don’t think that Obama would stray actually. He seems very in love with his wife, and good for them.

And good for their kids too.

And especially good for his nuts, which he would find in his soup if she ever caught him.

215 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:07:52pm

re: #206 Fozzie Bear

It was more than common. It was very rare for gentlemen of means to NOT have mistresses.


Let me introduce you to inductive reasoning. “X was a US president. Lots of US presidents had mistresses. Therefore X had a mistress.”

I have never heard a name mentioned as a possible mistress for George Washington with the exception of Sally Fairfax, and we have no proof that that was more than letters.

216 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:08:18pm

re: #201 Fozzie Bear

Whatever you think of Obama, he is a fucking saint to his wife and kids. But, here’s the thing: That doesn’t matter, at all, for the performance of his job as president.

Of course it matters. An affair trumps everything else. EVERYTHING. The smartest, the brightest don’t stand a chance.

i.e. Clinton.

What will Clinton be FIRST remembered for?

217 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:08:29pm

re: #210 marjoriemoon

With due respect, that’s bullshit.

He doesn’t have to marry. If he wants to have many women, he can stay single.

Or get divorced.

218 Stanley Sea  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:08:43pm

re: #214 Spare O’Lake

And good for their kids too.

And especially good for his nuts, which he would find in his soup if she ever caught him.

Why do you assume this? And keep repeating it?

219 Renaissance_Man  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:08:51pm

re: #197 marjoriemoon

I’m well informed that women cheat, but find me ONE woman politician who had an affair on her husband.

There have been a few. A few notable State and Congressional Reps, and of course several foreign ones.

There will always be less, though. There are less female politicians, and less men are attracted to women in power than vice versa.

220 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:08:57pm

re: #202 LudwigVanQuixote

I don’t think that Obama would stray actually. He seems very in love with his wife, and good for them.

Plus Michelle looks like she rocks his world…

221 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:09:21pm

Sneaking around to have sex behind your partner’s back, without them having any idea? Total scumball behavior.

You and your partner growing apart, so you both decide to make other arrangements in that regard, and you still take care of your family and responsibilities? I’m not seeing a problem there.

222 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:09:46pm

re: #211 darthstar

Well-Liberals who espouse consenting adults would be less hypocritical than a family values bible thump-er. Breaking promises still sucks. The hypocrisy would be about keeping his or her word, not so strong a hypocrisy as say a Priest caught out.

I guess I refer to kind and degree thereof.

223 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:09:47pm

re: #210 marjoriemoon

With due respect, that’s bullshit.

He doesn’t have to marry. If he wants to have many women, he can stay single.

It’s not bullshit, it’s reality. If you think, for a single second, that any other heterosexual male doesn’t want to have as many women as he can you are dreaming and a large percentage of them are married.

Society can demand monogamy all it wants to but just like with teenagers… overriding a biological drive isn’t a very successful process. Do you really think he got married thinking “haha stupid cow! Just wait until I have some staffers to boink!”.

It’s likely that he went in just like most of us and then had his biology lead him astray. It happens constantly.

224 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:09:55pm

re: #216 marjoriemoon

Well, of course it matter to idiots. I don’t care what idiots think.

It doesn’t matter at all as far as his ability to make executive decisions.

225 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:10:34pm

re: #197 marjoriemoon

I know having an affair is so blaise these days, but why? Is it so horrible to expect a man to be faithful to his wife? And let’s get real here. This is a man’s issue. I’m well informed that women cheat, but find me ONE woman politician who had an affair on her husband.

I think it’s a sad comment that the affair doesn’t matter. It sure does to me. It sure does if you’ve ever been cheated on.

Women are ot politically secure enough yet to be able to be open about any affairs they may or may not have. That is the real disparity in this case.

As to adultery, I am obviously against it. I obviously think that people should keep their vows and work to build a loving marriage. I do not excuse adultery in a persons’s private lives. I do however, not think it affects how well they govern.

Again, do you think that the many lovers that Elizabeth had made her less of a monarch? Granted she wasn’t married, but suppose she had somehow been secretly married to some little duke… Would her affairs had made her less of a monarch?

Was GW less of a president for his exploits? What about Jefferson and Lincoln? What about TR, FDR and Kennedy? Even given that we don’t like adultery, tell me truthfully, would you not wish for those men to be involved in politics today rather than the current crowd of twits?

226 Interesting Times  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:10:55pm

re: #197 marjoriemoon

I know having an affair is so blaise these days, but why? Is it so horrible to expect a man to be faithful to his wife? And let’s get real here. This is a man’s issue. I’m well informed that women cheat, but find me ONE woman politician who had an affair on her husband.

Helen Chenoweth-Hage

Chenoweth remained a controversial and polarizing figure in Idaho politics throughout her career. While in Congress she articulated and defended a freedom philosophy that was simultaneously cherished and derided by supporters and opponents. She was a critic of President Bill Clinton during the Lewinsky scandal and was one of the first to call for his resignation over the affair, although she admitted that she had carried on a six-year illicit romance with rancher Vernon Ravenscroft, when she worked for his natural-resources consulting firm during the 1980s. Chenoweth claimed that her case was different from the Clinton/Lewinsky case since she was a private citizen at the time and was honest with the public when confronted with the charge in 1998, although claims were made that she had denied it in a 1995 interview.
227 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:11:02pm

re: #223 Locker
Not those that take Marrige and VOWS seriously!!

228 Stanley Sea  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:11:03pm

I posted into links/pages, but will do here too.

Bill Nelson of FL has received (from BP) and released 4 new videos of the oil link. Here’s the first - refer to the YouTube page for the other 3.

229 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:12:07pm

re: #219 Renaissance_Man

There have been a few. A few notable State and Congressional Reps, and of course several foreign ones.

There will always be less, though. There are less female politicians, and less men are attracted to women in power than vice versa.

Foreigners don’t count. I’m talking about domestic. We see sex very differently in the U.S. I agree that we’re hung up here. Affairs really don’t matter in Europe. While I do agree with European views about sex and sexuality, I don’t agree with the fooling around part. I take marriage very seriously.

230 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:12:18pm

re: #205 EmmmieG

It was common? Not good enough. Name names.

I’m not be prudish. I’m being a historian.

OK, I have read those names in respectable history books from respectable historians. I do not have the desire to go hunting it down for you. However, if you desire to do some google fu, you will find names. If you are an historian you know them already and if you are an amateur historian, you can look it up.

231 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:14:18pm

re: #218 Stanley Sea

Why do you assume this? And keep repeating it?

Does the idea of a woman beating the crap out of her lying, cheating, scumbag spouse bother you?

232 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:14:22pm

re: #227 reloadingisnotahobby

Not those that take Marrige and VOWS seriously!!

Are you saying that taking vows seriously turns off your dick? You may behave, not speak up, keep the fact that your eyes are automatically drawn to every single female you see for an assessment to yourself but it’s still there.

233 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:14:31pm

re: #223 Locker

It’s not bullshit, it’s reality. If you think, for a single second, that any other heterosexual male doesn’t want to have as many women as he can you are dreaming and a large percentage of them are married.

Society can demand monogamy all it wants to but just like with teenagers… overriding a biological drive isn’t a very successful process. Do you really think he got married thinking “haha stupid cow! Just wait until I have some staffers to boink!”.

It’s likely that he went in just like most of us and then had his biology lead him astray. It happens constantly.

I don’t buy that “overriding biological drive”. You know that’s pretty much akin to the Devil Mad Me Do It!

Women hit their peak at 40, men at 20, so who has the drive? When you become a grownup, you learn to control yourself, sexually and otherwise.

234 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:14:48pm

re: #228 Stanley Sea

I posted into links/pages, but will do here too.

Bill Nelson of FL has received (from BP) and released 4 new videos of the oil link. Here’s the first - refer to the YouTube page for the other 3.


[Video]

Call my cynical, but the leak seems to be a bit slower than the previous video release…I wonder if they’re slowing the tape and overlaying a time stamp to make it look like it’s not as violent a gusher as the original 30 second video…Now I need to go compare the two.

235 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:15:01pm

Studies have shown women are just as likely to have an affair as men are. Part of the reason we don’t see as many female politicians having them as men is simply because there are significantly fewer female than male politicians.

236 Stanley Sea  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:15:09pm

re: #231 Spare O’Lake

Does the idea of a woman beating the crap out of her lying, cheating, scumbag spouse bother you?

Depends. We were talking about Michelle Obama I thought.

237 webevintage  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:15:10pm

Don’t forget to go vote today!

238 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:15:31pm

re: #233 marjoriemoon

Nobody said it was overriding, but it’s true. Men *are* biologically compelled to look, fantasize, and contemplate. You can keep it in check, of course, but you can’t turn it off.

239 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:17:17pm

re: #215 EmmmieG

Let me introduce you to inductive reasoning. “X was a US president. Lots of US presidents had mistresses. Therefore X had a mistress.”

I have never heard a name mentioned as a possible mistress for George Washington with the exception of Sally Fairfax, and we have no proof that that was more than letters.

OH for crying out loud, Thank you for reminding me of the name. Sally Fairfax, and then there was a cousin that that was involved too… Or so my old history professor taught me some time ago. Let’s for the sake of argument but GW in a grey zone. For the sake of argument and not having the main point dismissed.

There is no question at all in the cases of Jefferson, Lincoln, FDR and Kennedy.

Genetic testing of the descendent’s of Sally Hemmings proves Jefferson’s case - as do other contemporary accounts from France when he was there.

The fact the Lincoln had Syphilis and Mary Todd did not proves his case.

The fact that Eleanor refused her husbands bed for the legnth of their marriage over his affair with his chief secretary is well documented. I forget the woman’s name. Look it up.

The point is that these are all people you would vote for, and they all screwed around.

240 wrenchwench  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:17:17pm

Just tweeted:

Cheating Congressman Mark Souder Once Lectured My Father on the Evils of Sex

[…]

Souder frequently meddled with CDC research into at-risk behavior, and made life difficult for medical researchers of teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease. For example, in March 2004, Souder hauled Dr. Jonathan Zenilman, a former C.D.C. officer and S.T.D. specialist at Hopkins who happens to be my father, before his committee and proceeded to lecture him on the sins of condoms and sex outside of wedlock and its liberal enablers….

241 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:17:44pm

re: #238 Fozzie Bear

Nobody said it was overriding, but it’s true. Men *are* biologically compelled to look, fantasize, and contemplate. You can keep it in check, of course, but you can’t turn it off.

As some comedian once noted. “A woman will decided whether she is willing to have sex with a man within the first minute of meeting. A man will decide if he is willing to have sex with a woman within the first 15 seconds of meeting her, and the answer is yes.”

242 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:18:44pm

re: #238 Fozzie Bear

Nobody said it was overriding, but it’s true. Men *are* biologically compelled to look, fantasize, and contemplate. You can keep it in check, of course, but you can’t turn it off.

I’m not asking them to turn it off. I understand the male libido. I believe monogamy works (if you work it, like the drunks say lol), but if you don’t want monogamy, that’s fine. Just don’t marry. What’s the problem.

243 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:19:00pm

re: #229 marjoriemoon

Foreigners don’t count. I’m talking about domestic. We see sex very differently in the U.S. I agree that we’re hung up here. Affairs really don’t matter in Europe. While I do agree with European views about sex and sexuality, I don’t agree with the fooling around part. I take marriage very seriously.

So do I. I am not trying to say that people should cheat on their spouses. I am however saying that there are many who do, and yet would be vastly more qualified as leaders than many who do not.

244 Nick Morgan  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:19:07pm

re: #230 LudwigVanQuixote

I haven’t read every post on this thread (can’t, ‘cause I’m late) but are you saying many powerful men in American history have had affairs/mistresses?

245 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:19:16pm

re: #242 marjoriemoon

I’m not asking them to turn it off. I understand the male libido. I believe monogamy works (if you work it, like the drunks say lol), but if you don’t want monogamy, that’s fine. Just don’t marry. What’s the problem.

I agree.

246 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:19:20pm

re: #233 marjoriemoon

I don’t buy that “overriding biological drive”. You know that’s pretty much akin to the Devil Mad Me Do It!

Women hit their peak at 40, men at 20, so who has the drive? When you become a grownup, you learn to control yourself, sexually and otherwise.

How can you honestly state this when there is so much evidence to the contrary? It’s not hard to understand but you just don’t want to accept it. You can tell a compulsive eater to stop eating if they love you and they might even do it but don’t think for a second that they actually stop thinking about food constantly.

I think it’s blatantly obvious by the failure rate of human males at “becoming grown up and learning to control themselves, sexually and otherwise” so why pretend otherwise.

247 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:19:30pm

re: #238 Fozzie Bear

Nobody said it was overriding, but it’s true. Men *are* biologically compelled to look, fantasize, and contemplate. You can keep it in check, of course, but you can’t turn it off.

(Actually Locker did say it was overriding :>)

248 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:19:58pm

re: #242 marjoriemoon

I understand the male libido.

I don’t. It’s more fun that way.

249 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:20:21pm

re: #244 Nick Morgan

I haven’t read every post on this thread (can’t, ‘cause I’m late) but are you saying many powerful men in American history have had affairs/mistresses?

Yeah I know… It’s shocking to say something so outrageous… I am even going further and saying that many of those philanderers were much better leaders than the crop we have today.

250 Gus  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:20:24pm

re: #228 Stanley Sea

I posted into links/pages, but will do here too.

Bill Nelson of FL has received (from BP) and released 4 new videos of the oil link. Here’s the first - refer to the YouTube page for the other 3.

[Video]

The 75 million dollar liability cap is a joke. That’s almost the price of one little old 737NG. Estimated liability costs are said to be around 3 to 8 billion. BP claims they’ll go over the 75 million limit. I’m sure they’ll have no choice.

BP’s already lawyered up and hired the firm of Kirkland & Ellis.

251 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:20:28pm

re: #243 LudwigVanQuixote

So do I. I am not trying to say that people should cheat on their spouses. I am however saying that there are many who do, and yet would be vastly more qualified as leaders than many who do not.

Wait, men who cheat are better leaders?

252 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:20:51pm

Bristol Palin to hit speakers’ circuit

JUNEAU, Alaska – Bristol Palin is hitting the speakers’ circuit and will command between $15,000 and $30,000 for each appearance, Palin family attorney Thomas Van Flein said Monday.

Van Flein confirmed a report by celebrity news website RadarOnline that the daughter of former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has signed with Single Source Speakers. He added her exact fees will depend on factors such as which group she’s addressing and what she must to do prepare.

Bristol Palin, 19, is listed on the speaking group’s website as available for conferences, fundraisers, special events and holidays, as well as women’s, youth, abstinence and “pro-life” programs.

Her fee is denoted by four question marks, meaning “Call to discuss!” The same designation is given to New Orleans Saints quarterback Drew Brees.

253 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:21:13pm

re: #248 MrSilverDragon

Indeed. I don’t understand women as well as I would like, and yet I like not understanding them. What fun would it be if they weren’t wired a little differently?

254 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:21:34pm

re: #251 marjoriemoon

Wait, men who cheat are better leaders?

Only if they are Democrats.

255 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:21:44pm

re: #254 Spare O’Lake

Only if they are Democrats.

LOL

256 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:21:52pm

re: #251 marjoriemoon

Wait, men who cheat are better leaders?

Some men who cheat are great leaders regardless of their marital infidelity.

257 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:22:21pm

re: #256 Fozzie Bear

Some men who cheat are great leaders regardless of their marital infidelity.

That’s not what my dear friend said upthread, tho.

258 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:22:27pm

re: #251 marjoriemoon

Wait, men who cheat are better leaders?

He’s saying their personal relationships had no bearing on their abilities.

259 b_sharp  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:22:45pm

re: #251 marjoriemoon

Wait, men who cheat are better leaders?

There was no causal link in LVQ’s comment, don’t put one there.

260 webevintage  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:23:12pm

re: #252 Shiplord Kirel

Bristol Palin to hit speakers’ circuit

I like Wonkette’s take better:

Famous abstinence activist/teen mom Bristol Palin is hitting the lecture circuit to teach teen moms how to deal with the poverty that usually accompanies teen pregnancy: Go on the lecture circuit and make up to $30,000 per hour — if your mom is famous wingnut Sarah Palin, that is. WE REPEAT: dumb teenager Bristol Palin, who would actually have to keep that fake job working part-time in a medical office if not for her TeeVee Clown Mother’s Millions of Dollars, will make between $15,000 and $30,000 per appearance on the lecture circuit.

Read more at Wonkette: wonkette.com

261 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:23:17pm

re: #242 marjoriemoon

I’m not asking them to turn it off. I understand the male libido. I believe monogamy works (if you work it, like the drunks say lol), but if you don’t want monogamy, that’s fine. Just don’t marry. What’s the problem.

The problem is that a man never wants monogamy, even if you convince him that he wants it. We are biologically programmed to mate with anything and everything we can get our hands on, period. He might love you, he might jam himself into a monogamy model just to be with you but when he fucks up later it’s kind of obtuse to say “if you don’t want monogamy don’t marry” because if it were taken literally no man would ever marry.

262 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:23:37pm

re: #233 marjoriemoon

We have to eat. We can easily eat ourselves to death. Discipline makes the difference. Both are primal survival/biological imperatives right from our DNA. Seems a fair comparison.

263 Four More Tears  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:24:29pm

re: #260 webevintage

I like Wonkette’s take better:

Famous abstinence activist/teen mom Bristol Palin is hitting the lecture circuit to teach teen moms how to deal with the poverty that usually accompanies teen pregnancy: Go on the lecture circuit and make up to $30,000 per hour — if your mom is famous wingnut Sarah Palin, that is. WE REPEAT: dumb teenager Bristol Palin, who would actually have to keep that fake job working part-time in a medical office if not for her TeeVee Clown Mother’s Millions of Dollars, will make between $15,000 and $30,000 per appearance on the lecture circuit.

Read more at Wonkette: [Link: wonkette.com…]

I’m really in the wrong line of work. Thanks a lot, mom.

264 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:24:52pm

re: #261 Locker

The problem is that a man never wants monogamy, even if you convince him that he wants it. We are biologically programmed to mate with anything and everything we can get our hands on, period. He might love you, he might jam himself into a monogamy model just to be with you but when he fucks up later it’s kind of obtuse to say “if you don’t want monogamy don’t marry” because if it were taken literally no man would ever marry.

Many men just want to have it both ways, in a manner of speaking.

265 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:25:07pm

re: #261 Locker

The problem is that a man never wants monogamy, even if you convince him that he wants it. We are biologically programmed to mate with anything and everything we can get our hands on, period. He might love you, he might jam himself into a monogamy model just to be with you but when he fucks up later it’s kind of obtuse to say “if you don’t want monogamy don’t marry” because if it were taken literally no man would ever marry.

When people ask, “how could he cheat on her, she’s gorgeous”, they are missing the point completely.

266 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:25:21pm

You forgot Benjamin Franklin. Documented. As in, raised his illegitimate son himself documented.

(For that matter, he was never actually legally married because his “wife” couldn’t find her first husband to get a divorce.)

How come nobody ever throws around James Madison’s name? He was late to marry, and frankly, he was one of our great founding fathers. Do you have something against short founding fathers? Only the tall, good-looking ones get to have mistresses?

267 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:25:28pm

re: #261 Locker

I would say we may want to be monogamous, but sometimes it takes a serious amount of willpower to do so. Sometimes, when we are very happy, it’s not hard at all.

But you can’t just turn it off like a switch. Not possible.

268 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:25:38pm

re: #252 Shiplord Kirel

Bristol Palin to hit speakers’ circuit

The only people who will pay 15 to 30 K for someone who just barely finished high school (she was apparently short on credits and planning on taking the GED when suddenly, after the election she managed to graduate with her class) will be those who know they’ll make more than that much money from the event because they’ve got a Palin coming in to read a speech.

I’d love to see a speech she actually wrote herself, but she’s a puppet, just like her mother.

269 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:25:54pm

re: #258 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He’s saying their personal relationships had no bearing on their abilities.

Ok, so Souder shouldn’t resign. Affair, no biggie? Affair with a woman who you’re busy writing Abstinence Only Videos?

I can see it now. “Ooooh baby… keep talking abstinence only. It makes me SO HOTTTT. No, you can’t touch that…. “

270 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:26:24pm

re: #267 Fozzie Bear

I would say we may want to be monogamous, but sometimes it takes a serious amount of willpower to do so. Sometimes, when we are very happy, it’s not hard at all.

But you can’t just turn it off like a switch. Not possible.

Salt peter in the eggs would do it for a while.

271 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:26:37pm

re: #251 marjoriemoon

Wait, men who cheat are better leaders?

NO NOT AT ALL!

I am saying it does not matter to my view of them as leaders. There have been great presidents who were faithful like Truman and terrible ones who were faithful - like Jimmy Carter.

There have been truly great presidents like Lincoln who were not, and ones like Adams who were.

What people do with their willies, may reflect on their character, but it does not reflect on their ability to govern well.

272 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:26:43pm

re: #265 cliffster

When people ask, “how could he cheat on her, she’s gorgeous”, they are missing the point completely.

True but that’s a standard dodge we see often, pretending that things are different than they actually play out.

273 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:26:56pm

re: #270 MrSilverDragon

Salt peter in the eggs would do it for a while.

Naa, it would just make him wonder what’s wrong with him.

274 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:27:10pm

re: #265 cliffster

And, for all I’ll talk about how a man should be true to his vows, I’ve never been rich and famous. Can’t really say for sure I’d have the character to stay true if I were. Probably not - I’m pretty much a shit head. I wouldn’t mind getting a chance to try, though.

275 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:27:12pm

re: #269 marjoriemoon

Ok, so Souder shouldn’t resign. Affair, no biggie? Affair with a woman who you’re busy writing Abstinence Only Videos?

I can see it now. “Ooooh baby… keep talking abstinence only. It makes me SO HOTTT. No, you can’t touch that… “

No. Souder was a liar and a hypocrit who cheated on his wife.

276 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:27:37pm

re: #254 Spare O’Lake

Only if they are Democrats.

re: #257 marjoriemoon

That’s not what my dear friend said upthread, tho.

You are correct, that is not what I said. I said that there is no correlation between leadership ability and fidelity in our history.

277 Gus  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:27:42pm

re: #252 Shiplord Kirel

Bristol Palin to hit speakers’ circuit

Of course that’s no guarantee she’ll get an audience. However, I do find this rather laughable which is from the Single Source Speakers website:

Bristol Palin becomes flagship client for SSS

Single Source Speakers’ flagship client Bristol Palin got Americans talking about teenage pregnancy during the 2008 presidential campaign. Today, she is a proud mom to son, Tripp, and a Teen Ambassador for Candie’s Foundation. Bristol recently appeared on the ABC drama, “The Secret Life of the American Teenager” and is writing her first book.

Bristol Palin

Travels From: Alaska

Programs: Abstinence, Conference, Fundraiser, Pro-Life, Special Event/Holiday, Women’s, Youth


NOW AVAILABLE FOR SPECIAL APPEARANCES

Bristol Palin, Sarah Palin’s oldest daughter, took the country by storm practically overnight when she was introduced to Americans during the 2008 presidential campaign. Her teen pregnancy and the birth of her son Tripp, resulted in millions of Americans discussing the issues surrounding teen pregnancy. Bristol has since gone on to become a Teen Ambassador for the Candie’s Foundation, and speaks about pregnancy prevention, abstinence, faith and life. She recently appeared on the ABC drama “The Secret Life of the American Teenager” and is working on her first book.

278 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:27:54pm

re: #265 cliffster

Halle Berry.

279 brookly red  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:28:11pm

re: #265 cliffster

When people ask, “how could he cheat on her, she’s gorgeous”, they are missing the point completely.

He screwed up, he got caught, he resigned. That is the way it should be. People would have more trust & respect in Washington & politics in general if the was the rule & not the exception. IMHO.

280 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:28:16pm

Don’t foget, Souder was screwing his employee, which makes it worse.

281 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:28:17pm

re: #278 EmmmieG

Halle Berry.

Yup

282 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:28:22pm

re: #267 Fozzie Bear

I would say we may want to be monogamous, but sometimes it takes a serious amount of willpower to do so. Sometimes, when we are very happy, it’s not hard at all.

But you can’t just turn it off like a switch. Not possible.

Why would you want to be monogamous for any reason other than some version of “because that’s what she wants me to do”? Serious question and I’m talking about an actual want, desire, etc so none of this “church told me it’s right” or whatever.

283 Gus  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:28:25pm

re: #277 Gus 802

Talk about the dumbing down of America.

284 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:29:41pm

re: #280 Spare O’Lake

Don’t foget, Souder was screwing his employee, which makes it worse.

What about boinking your slave? I find that utterly repellent, and I can not forgive Jefferson at all for it. Yet, does this mean that all of TJ’s accomplishments no longer count?

285 MrSilverDragon  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:29:42pm

re: #282 Locker

Why would you want to be monogamous for any reason other than some version of “because that’s what she wants me to do”? Serious question and I’m talking about an actual want, desire, etc so none of this “church told me it’s right” or whatever.

Because she lets me do the “weird stuff”.

(props to Joss Whedon for that one)

286 JoyousMN  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:29:51pm

re: #258 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He’s saying their personal relationships had no bearing on their abilities.

of course they don’t…and we won’t care unless you hypocritically hold others to a standard that even you can’t maintain. (not addressing you, Kragar just using it as a jumping off point).

The whole Clinton debacle got us to this point. I don’t care who they bonk. It’s NONE of my business. But pols MAKE it my business when they think they are the ones who should extol their own virtues…then fail to live up to those same them.

287 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:30:14pm

re: #246 Locker

How can you honestly state this when there is so much evidence to the contrary? It’s not hard to understand but you just don’t want to accept it. You can tell a compulsive eater to stop eating if they love you and they might even do it but don’t think for a second that they actually stop thinking about food constantly.

I think it’s blatantly obvious by the failure rate of human males at “becoming grown up and learning to control themselves, sexually and otherwise” so why pretend otherwise.

Are you upset at Souder then? And if so why? How about Edwards or all the rest?

When you get married you make a promise to your spouse. That you will not cheat. That, along with the other promises mean something. If you think I’m old fashioned or a prude or whatever, that’s fine. I don’t care. If you can’t live up to that promise 1) don’t marry; 2) get a divorce.

288 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:30:35pm

re: #274 cliffster

And, for all I’ll talk about how a man should be true to his vows, I’ve never been rich and famous. Can’t really say for sure I’d have the character to stay true if I were. Probably not - I’m pretty much a shit head. I wouldn’t mind getting a chance to try, though.

Yea handled on a recent South Park episode about Tiger Woods. You see this big board room with all these guys talking about the new epidemic/disease where rich men want to screw lots of beautiful women.

“Why would a rich guy want to go out and screw lots and lots of women? What would make them do that? It’s a new disease!”

289 Nick Morgan  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:31:27pm

re: #249 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah I know… It’s shocking to say something so outrageous… I am even going further and saying that many of those philanderers were much better leaders than the crop we have today.

Infidelity to ones spouse is wrong, but men (I’m writing only of men) who can achieve objectives in one area could be (and might need to be) successful in others.

290 wrenchwench  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:31:40pm

re: #282 Locker

Why would you want to be monogamous for any reason other than some version of “because that’s what she wants me to do”? Serious question and I’m talking about an actual want, desire, etc so none of this “church told me it’s right” or whatever.

There’s only one way to appreciate the benefits of a long term monogamous relationship, and that’s to have one. There are benefits, and I can’t believe only women appreciate them.

291 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:31:56pm

re: #261 Locker

The problem is that a man never wants monogamy, even if you convince him that he wants it. We are biologically programmed to mate with anything and everything we can get our hands on, period. He might love you, he might jam himself into a monogamy model just to be with you but when he fucks up later it’s kind of obtuse to say “if you don’t want monogamy don’t marry” because if it were taken literally no man would ever marry.

I don’t believe that for one minute because I know many men who love their wives and are happy in their relationships.

That doesn’t mean they don’t look or fantasize or whatever (which there’s nothing wrong with doing).

292 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:32:00pm

re: #286 JoyousMN

of course they don’t…and we won’t care unless you hypocritically hold others to a standard that even you can’t maintain. (not addressing you, Kragar just using it as a jumping off point).

The whole Clinton debacle got us to this point. I don’t care who they bonk. It’s NONE of my business. But pols MAKE it my business when they think they are the ones who should extol their own virtues…then fail to live up to those same them.

Exactly.

293 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:32:03pm

re: #238 Fozzie Bear

Nobody said it was overriding, but it’s true. Men *are* biologically compelled to look, fantasize, and contemplate. You can keep it in check, of course, but you can’t turn it off.

Don’t go there. Unless the man is gay, there was a woman involved in the adultery who shares precisely one half the responsibility.

294 brookly red  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:32:07pm

re: #287 marjoriemoon

Are you upset at Souder then? And if so why? How about Edwards or all the rest?

When you get married you make a promise to your spouse. That you will not cheat. That, along with the other promises mean something. If you think I’m old fashioned or a prude or whatever, that’s fine. I don’t care. If you can’t live up to that promise 1) don’t marry; 2) get a divorce.

/hey If you can’t even fool around and not get caught you probably shouldn’t be in such a high position anyways.

295 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:32:08pm

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

What about boinking your slave? I find that utterly repellent, and I can not forgive Jefferson at all for it. Yet, does this mean that all of TJ’s accomplishments no longer count?

Why does everyone get worked up about that, but not about the fact that Sally Hemings’ father gave her as a wedding gift to her half-sister?

Powerful men screwing the women they have power over is old news. Still happening. (Not nice, but very common.)

I just can’t fathom the whole giving one daughter to another daughter as a wedding gift thing. That’s the one that blows my mind, and reminds me that we just don’t think the way they did.

296 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:32:30pm

re: #285 MrSilverDragon

Because she lets me do the “weird stuff”.

(props to Joss Whedon for that one)

Ok so that one cracked me up completely. Can’t say I’d rather have one girl letting me do the weird stuff when I could actually have 3 or more girls letting me do the weird stuff. Thank god for freaky spouses.

297 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:34:04pm

re: #282 Locker

Why would you want to be monogamous for any reason other than some version of “because that’s what she wants me to do”? Serious question and I’m talking about an actual want, desire, etc so none of this “church told me it’s right” or whatever.

For me, it’s a negotiation. I would be jealous if she cheated on me, and so as a matter of fairness, I have to behave the way I would want her to. It’s the marital golden rule, as I see it. I don’t want to hurt the woman I love. I also want to boink women X, Y, and Z. I choose my wife, not at all reluctantly, but definitely deliberately.

It certainly has nothing to do with religion in my case. It’s about respect for my wife. Even if she said “sure go ahead, have fun, I’ll do the same” I wouldn’t take that deal, because I don’t want to think about her with other men.

I suppose you could say my penis has a double standard, but really, it’s more like my penis has one standard, and my heart quite another.

298 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:34:06pm

re: #296 Locker

Thank god for freaky spouses.

Quoted again for truth.

299 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:35:50pm

re: #233 marjoriemoon

I don’t buy that “overriding biological drive”. You know that’s pretty much akin to the Devil Mad Me Do It!

Women hit their peak at 40, men at 20, so who has the drive? When you become a grownup, you learn to control yourself, sexually and otherwise.

Exept that for every cheating straigt man, there is woman who is ok with taking him from his marriage.

You are both making outrageous and honestly sexist comments.

Both men and women have the capacity to stay faithful and to respect th institution of marriage. Both men and women fail equally at it. Further, I can assure you that when you look at the stats for divorce based on infidelity, the women cheat too.

300 palomino  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:36:41pm

re: #136 Spare O’Lake

Pelosi might explode, or deflate, or something even worse.

The woman is 70 years old. Why are you thinking about boinking her?

301 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:37:18pm

re: #287 marjoriemoon

Are you upset at Souder then? And if so why? How about Edwards or all the rest?

When you get married you make a promise to your spouse. That you will not cheat. That, along with the other promises mean something. If you think I’m old fashioned or a prude or whatever, that’s fine. I don’t care. If you can’t live up to that promise 1) don’t marry; 2) get a divorce.

No, I’m not upset about any of them and if you could see all my comment history I try to avoid bashing anyone for this type of thing. I have no illusions about men and how they operate and it’s not a R, D, Lib or Con thing at all… it’s a biology thing and it’s not some random and rare accident when a man cheats… political or otherwise… it’s insanely common.

I feel that it’s cheap to attack and bash someone for properties we, ourselves, possess. Personally I am far from perfect and I think you are begging for disappointment to expect perfection from someone else.

Yes I think it’s hypocritical to pass anti-gay legislature when you are gay. Yes I think it’s hypocritical to speak about abstinence when you’ve just had a baby.

However, we are all, each one of us, hypocritical all the freaking time. Every single time you change your mind about a position or grow you are being hypocritical. I don’t find it to be such a horrible thing.

302 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:38:42pm

re: #295 EmmmieG

Why does everyone get worked up about that, but not about the fact that Sally Hemings’ father gave her as a wedding gift to her half-sister?

Powerful men screwing the women they have power over is old news. Still happening. (Not nice, but very common.)

I just can’t fathom the whole giving one daughter to another daughter as a wedding gift thing. That’s the one that blows my mind, and reminds me that we just don’t think the way they did.

You are right. It is utterly disgusting. That is part of what makes it so repellent. One sister was his wife and the other was his property.

And Jefferson certainly took advantage of it.

However repugnant it i - and it is about the most disgusting sexual exploit of a major American leader I can think of, did it make TJ less important to history or the formation of this nation?

Of course it did not.

Does it make TJ scum in my eyes… of course it does. My only argument here is that what people do with their willies is not an indicator of presidential performance.

303 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:38:54pm

re: #290 wrenchwench

There’s only one way to appreciate the benefits of a long term monogamous relationship, and that’s to have one. There are benefits, and I can’t believe only women appreciate them.

What benefits. I’m in a long term non-monogamous relationship and I don’t feel that I’m missing out on something that I would be getting if the only thing to change were monogamy. Just asking.

304 b_sharp  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:39:07pm

Don’t make the assumption its only men that have an evolutionary disposition to stray, women are also subject to their genes. One thing that has to be considered though is the ESS of both monogamy and polygamy. Both have been used and both are successful strategies depending on the societal situation.

In situations where the genders are roughly equal in number, monogamous relationships will give better support to offspring. In situations where females outnumber males, such as at a time of war, or in a society where going to war and dying is held as an honourable thing to do, polygynous relationships are an advantage because of an increased birth rate. Polyandry is an advantage where the population number must be restricted because of hardship or nomadic habits.

However, in all cases, it is the human mind that controls the arrangement, not the genes. The push for replication is strong in both males and females, both evolutionarily choosing the most successful strategy for their gender, even though they frequently conflict with each other. This is where the brain takes over. We are not limited to giving in to our genes, because those same genes give us the ability to choose our path. That current path is monogamy. If you choose to get married, you also choose to live with the consequences if you stray from the marriage.

305 oklahoma  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:39:19pm

He was boinking that chick? Wondered if she had bad vision or low self esteem?

306 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:39:54pm

re: #291 marjoriemoon

I don’t believe that for one minute because I know many men who love their wives and are happy in their relationships.

That doesn’t mean they don’t look or fantasize or whatever (which there’s nothing wrong with doing).

Don’t you think there are plenty of men just like you describe above who ended up being unfaithful by starting with looking and fantasizing?

307 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:40:32pm

re: #275 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No. Souder was a liar and a hypocrit who cheated on his wife.

I’m totally confused.

If there is no correlation between fidelity and leadership like Ludwig says, than why be pissed at Souder? I mean outside of the hypocrisy in this particular case.

I think Power in and of itself is intoxicating. And it takes a male libido that is probably operating at 80% to begin with and puts it into overdrive.

308 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:41:53pm

re: #297 Fozzie Bear

For me, it’s a negotiation. I would be jealous if she cheated on me, and so as a matter of fairness, I have to behave the way I would want her to. It’s the marital golden rule, as I see it. I don’t want to hurt the woman I love. I also want to boink women X, Y, and Z. I choose my wife, not at all reluctantly, but definitely deliberately.

It certainly has nothing to do with religion in my case. It’s about respect for my wife. Even if she said “sure go ahead, have fun, I’ll do the same” I wouldn’t take that deal, because I don’t want to think about her with other men.

I suppose you could say my penis has a double standard, but really, it’s more like my penis has one standard, and my heart quite another.

So to paraphrase you want monogamy to sooth jealousy? Just checking that I have it right but it’s not like it doesn’t make some sense.

309 wrenchwench  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:41:57pm

re: #303 Locker

I’m afraid I am not in a position to compare LTM with LTNM. My opinion would be speculation about the ramifications of the “non” part. Wouldn’t work for me, I think.

310 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:43:01pm

If I’m missing some responses, I apologize in advance… I’m busy having sex at my computer with a coworker. Don’t tell my husband.

312 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:43:36pm

re: #307 marjoriemoon

Because he’s an asshole who takes political positions on private matters, even while privately demonstrating he doesn’t believe a word he is saying. Because he threatens to make my kids (and yours) dumber by making sure they don’t learn anything useful regarding sexuality in school. Because he thinks sex is a political issue. Because he is a hypocrite.

313 Nick Morgan  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:43:37pm

re: #310 marjoriemoon

If I’m missing some responses, I apologize in advance… I’m busy having sex at my computer with a coworker. Don’t tell my husband.

I think that… you’re what!

314 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:44:02pm

re: #216 marjoriemoon

Of course it matters. An affair trumps everything else. EVERYTHING. The smartest, the brightest don’t stand a chance.

i.e. Clinton.

What will Clinton be FIRST remembered for?

What is Jefferson first remembered for?

315 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:44:08pm

re: #299 LudwigVanQuixote

Exept that for every cheating straigt man, there is woman who is ok with taking him from his marriage.

You are both making outrageous and honestly sexist comments.

Both men and women have the capacity to stay faithful and to respect th institution of marriage. Both men and women fail equally at it. Further, I can assure you that when you look at the stats for divorce based on infidelity, the women cheat too.

I wasn’t saying they didn’t cheat, if you are addressing me. I’m just speaking about men from my perspective as a married, faithful and non-monogamous male.

Yes I do believe that being monogamous and being faithful are two different things. I’ve always been faithful to the agreements and understandings between myself and my spouse. She is just smart enough to understand the male sex drive and we have constructed our agreement to work with, rather than against, biology and natural tendancies.

316 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:44:22pm

re: #313 Nick Morgan

I think that… you’re what!

See, I can make a funny!

317 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:44:23pm

re: #310 marjoriemoon

If I’m missing some responses, I apologize in advance… I’m busy having sex at my computer with a coworker. Don’t tell my husband.

Please press Ctrl-Alt-R to engage your webcam.

318 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:44:39pm

re: #307 marjoriemoon

I’m totally confused.

If there is no correlation between fidelity and leadership like Ludwig says, than why be pissed at Souder? I mean outside of the hypocrisy in this particular case.

I think Power in and of itself is intoxicating. And it takes a male libido that is probably operating at 80% to begin with and puts it into overdrive.

Souder can screw anyone he likes for all I care. His personal sex life is not something I care about. The problem here is 1) He did this behind his wife’s back 2) He did this with an employee 3) he has based his entire political career on preaching the opposite of how he lives.

319 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:44:39pm

re: #308 Locker

So to paraphrase you want monogamy to sooth jealousy? Just checking that I have it right but it’s not like it doesn’t make some sense.

I want stability and peace in my life. I want my wife to be with me until death because she is my best friend. The rest is a means to that end.

320 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:45:29pm

re: #314 LudwigVanQuixote

What is Jefferson first remembered for?

Moving on up to the East Side?

321 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:45:55pm

re: #312 Fozzie Bear

Because he’s an asshole who takes political positions on private matters, even while privately demonstrating he doesn’t believe a word he is saying. Because he threatens to make my kids (and yours) dumber by making sure they don’t learn anything useful regarding sexuality in school. Because he thinks sex is a political issue. Because he is a hypocrite.

Yea, but he doesn’t have to be a cheat to be all those things. In fact, he was all those things before we knew he was a cheat so that doesn’t change. The fact that he cheated with that particular woman (whom, might I add, looks like his freakin daughter for cripes sake) is the hypocrisy.

322 Nick Morgan  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:46:02pm

re: #316 marjoriemoon

Indeed, young woman. :)

323 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:46:22pm

re: #310 marjoriemoon

If I’m missing some responses, I apologize in advance… I’m busy having sex at my computer with a coworker. Don’t tell my husband.

If you happen to be my wife hanging out under this nick then you know I don’t mind as long as I get to see the video tape.

324 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:48:30pm

re: #319 Fozzie Bear

I want stability and peace in my life. I want my wife to be with me until death because she is my best friend. The rest is a means to that end.

Ok so you didn’t want monogamy, per se, as I see it. I could and would say the exact same thing about my wife, monogamy just isn’t required as part of the “means to an end” for us, anyway.

325 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:48:46pm

re: #300 palomino

The woman is 70 years old. Why are you thinking about boinking her?

70? You gotta be shittin’ me!

326 palomino  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:48:47pm

re: #183 Rightwingconspirator

I can accept sexual hypocrisy as en exclusive Republican issue if no conservative Dem’s have cheated, and no priests that are registered Democrats have cheated.

CNN showed an interesting study, that usually shows how emotionally loaded the argument is rather than the science. The article has the science. The reactions shows the politics of the readers.
Study: Abstinence program most effective at delaying sex among youths

Sometimes it helps to read the entire article. From near the end of the CNN piece you reference: “The study’s authors — John B. Jemmott III, Loretta S. Jemmott and Geoffrey T. Fong — cautioned that abstinence programs are not an effective long-term solution.”

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that sexual hypocrisy is exclusively the gop’s province, just primarily.

327 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:49:05pm

A drive by post:

You know how you type, LOL, but you just do it out of courtesy or such. I checked the tags; horndog, I about blew a gasket!

That. Was. Hilarious!

BWAAAHAAAAHAAAAA!!

328 b_sharp  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:49:31pm

re: #307 marjoriemoon

I’m totally confused.

If there is no correlation between fidelity and leadership like Ludwig says, than why be pissed at Souder? I mean outside of the hypocrisy in this particular case.

Because we live in a moralistic society more concerned with appearance than substance.

329 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:50:13pm

re: #327 Oh no…Sand People!

A drive by post:

You know how you type, LOL, but you just do it out of courtesy or such. I checked the tags; horndog, I about blew a gasket!

That. Was. Hilarious!

BWAAAHAAAHAAA!!

Hey, whatever goes on between you and a consenting gasket is on you. Just make sure the wife knows about it before hand.

330 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:50:16pm

re: #318 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Souder can screw anyone he likes for all I care. His personal sex life is not something I care about. The problem here is 1) He did this behind his wife’s back 2) He did this with an employee 3) he has based his entire political career on preaching the opposite of how he lives.

I don’t want to beat this to death, but then you do care about the affair.

You know what the issue is here really? Is that he got caught. It’s not so much that he DID the deed. He got caught doing the deed. If he hadn’t got caught, he’d still be making the same stupid abstinence vids, same stupid political stands etc.

331 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:50:48pm

re: #323 Locker

If you happen to be my wife hanging out under this nick then you know I don’t mind as long as I get to see the video tape.

Open marriage then?

You really don’t want to hear my views about that!

332 Nick Morgan  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:51:30pm

re: #314 LudwigVanQuixote

What is Jefferson first remembered for?

The Louisiana Purchase, repealing the Alien and sedition act, declaration of Independence, the modern plough.. Oh, that was rhetorical. :)

333 palomino  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:51:40pm

re: #223 Locker

It’s not bullshit, it’s reality. If you think, for a single second, that any other heterosexual male doesn’t want to have as many women as he can you are dreaming and a large percentage of them are married.

Society can demand monogamy all it wants to but just like with teenagers… overriding a biological drive isn’t a very successful process. Do you really think he got married thinking “haha stupid cow! Just wait until I have some staffers to boink!”.

It’s likely that he went in just like most of us and then had his biology lead him astray. It happens constantly.

Almost as many married women cheat as men. That biological drive isn’t exclusive to one gender.

334 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:52:28pm

re: #314 LudwigVanQuixote

What is Jefferson first remembered for?

When Clinton writes one of the founding documents we can talk.

Actually, the first thing that I think of when I think of Clinton is that he made that billion dollar surplus. Now if that ain’t sexy, I don’t know what is!

335 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:53:24pm

re: #334 marjoriemoon

You should reward him biologically.

(I keed I keed)

336 b_sharp  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:54:08pm

re: #333 palomino

[snip] That biological drive isn’t exclusive to one gender.

I think I said that upstream.

337 cliffster  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:54:42pm

Gotta run. Don’t forget to tip your local blues-stringer



See the voodoo chile
Holding out his hand
I’ve been waitin’ on you brother
Welcome to the band
Good blues-stringin’
Heaven-fine singin’
Jesus, Mary and Joseph
Been listenin’ to your playin’
Heaven done called
Another blues-stringer back home
Lord they called
Another blues-stringer back home
338 Nick Morgan  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:54:48pm

re: #333 palomino

Almost as many married women cheat as men. That biological drive isn’t exclusive to one gender.

Yes!

339 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:55:30pm

re: #315 Locker

I wasn’t saying they didn’t cheat, if you are addressing me. I’m just speaking about men from my perspective as a married, faithful and non-monogamous male.

Yes I do believe that being monogamous and being faithful are two different things. I’ve always been faithful to the agreements and understandings between myself and my spouse. She is just smart enough to understand the male sex drive and we have constructed our agreement to work with, rather than against, biology and natural tendancies.

NO that is a rationalization that both you and your wife have to accept whatever arrangement you and she have. If you are both completely ok with whatever deal you two have come up with that is great. I do not judge you and good for you.

However the argument that our biology forces us to be unfaithful is insulting and untrue.

I, and many people I know, manage to go their entire lives without cheating on their spouses or significant others, and they are not worse for wear because they saw building a monogamous commitment as more important than fooling around.

The argument that biology will almost always win really only applies to calls for celibacy and it applies to both genders.

The argument that people can not keep their commitments or see those commitments as more important is nonsense.

The argument that how they see those commitments historically suggests they make better or worse leaders is nonsense.

The argument that men just simply can’t control their peckers is nonsense.

The argument that women are somehow pristine and more controlled is nonsense. In fact if you want to get biological about it, in times past where a woman was more dependent on her husband, she was less likey to cheat, out of reasons of security. For those same reasons younger women were more likely to try to steal him. To this day, if you want to do a truly depressing experiment on human nature, go to a bar, as a man, who is moderately good looking. Wear a wedding ring and see how many *more* women come to flirt with you. I’ve actually done the experiment.

Now that there is women’s liberation, married women are just as likely to cheat. They are not dependent on their husbands for survival. So the one who wants someone “pre-vetted” will seek out a married man and the one who is married, but wants to insure discretion will seek out a married man.

Women are just as guilty.

340 palomino  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:56:07pm

re: #325 Spare O’Lake

70? You gotta be shittin’ me!

Moreover, she’s a married grandmother. Ewww, why are you thinking about tapping that?

341 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:57:01pm

re: #330 marjoriemoon

I don’t want to beat this to death, but then you do care about the affair.

You know what the issue is here really? Is that he got caught. It’s not so much that he DID the deed. He got caught doing the deed. If he hadn’t got caught, he’d still be making the same stupid abstinence vids, same stupid political stands etc.

If he was a guy (or a girl) with a record of keeping the budget balanced, the criminals off the streets, and the trains running on time, and his/her spouse didn’t have a problem with them seeing someone else, I wouldn’t have a problem with them either.

342 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:57:28pm

re: #306 Locker

Don’t you think there are plenty of men just like you describe above who ended up being unfaithful by starting with looking and fantasizing?

That’s not fair to say.

This is going to sound crazy (I know you all think that’s not a stretch), but I think there’s a “cheater gene”. Maybe not really a gene, but some guys cheat. Some girls cheat. It’s like drinking or drugging. It’s what they do.

Looking, having dirty pictures is not a problem and doesn’t lead to infidelity. You know that.

343 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:58:25pm

re: #319 Fozzie Bear

I want stability and peace in my life. I want my wife to be with me until death because she is my best friend. The rest is a means to that end.

That’s so sweet!!

344 webevintage  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:58:31pm

re: #319 Fozzie Bear

I want stability and peace in my life. I want my wife to be with me until death because she is my best friend. The rest is a means to that end.

This.

(I think monogamy is not our norm but something we strive for subconsciously even if it goes against our sexual nature because of the need for “stability and peace” and life long companionship.)

345 Nick Morgan  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:58:38pm

re: #340 palomino

Moreover, she’s a married grandmother. Ewww, why are you thinking about tapping that?


Ewww is “operative” (channeling Alexander Haig.)

346 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:58:39pm

re: #289 Nick Morgan

Infidelity to ones spouse is wrong, but men (I’m writing only of men) who can achieve objectives in one area could be (and might need to be) successful in others.

Entirely my point. The two are not correlated and it applies to women as well.

347 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:58:43pm

en.wikipedia.org

Apropos to the biology underpinning all of this.

348 webevintage  Tue, May 18, 2010 12:59:54pm

re: #340 palomino

Moreover, she’s a married grandmother. Ewww, why are you thinking about tapping that?

Oh my.
That was such the wrong thing to say….

349 Slap  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:01:13pm

re: #339 LudwigVanQuixote

Right on, right on, right on.

I’m no celeb hound — but I remember seeing an interview with Courtney Cox and David Arquette, and they were talking about their marriage. They showed the inscription on the inside of their wedding bands:

“A deal’s a deal.”

I have no idea how they’re doing, but that’s the essence of it, right there. You agree to a set of terms, you stick to them or negotiate changes. Period.

Far as I can tell, the ability to keep one’s word has nothing in particular to do with biology.

350 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:02:24pm

re: #334 marjoriemoon

When Clinton writes one of the founding documents we can talk.

Actually, the first thing that I think of when I think of Clinton is that he made that billion dollar surplus. Now if that ain’t sexy, I don’t know what is!

IIRC that was smoke and mirrors because after taking into account the various trust fund surpluses there was actually a net deficit. The national debt actually went up.

351 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:02:24pm

re: #301 Locker

No, I’m not upset about any of them and if you could see all my comment history I try to avoid bashing anyone for this type of thing. I have no illusions about men and how they operate and it’s not a R, D, Lib or Con thing at all… it’s a biology thing and it’s not some random and rare accident when a man cheats… political or otherwise… it’s insanely common.

I feel that it’s cheap to attack and bash someone for properties we, ourselves, possess. Personally I am far from perfect and I think you are begging for disappointment to expect perfection from someone else.

Yes I think it’s hypocritical to pass anti-gay legislature when you are gay. Yes I think it’s hypocritical to speak about abstinence when you’ve just had a baby.

However, we are all, each one of us, hypocritical all the freaking time. Every single time you change your mind about a position or grow you are being hypocritical. I don’t find it to be such a horrible thing.

I don’t expect perfection, but I view cheating as the same as addicts. In fact, it most usually is an addiction. And I have two very large red flags that have served me well in my life. I don’t (or didn’t) date addicts or cheaters. If I suspected either, that was the end for me.

Hypocrisy is only a big deal when you’re doing shit like telling people not to have sex, while you’re boinking everything that moves.

You think this little lassie is his FIRST conquest??

352 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:02:48pm

re: #343 marjoriemoon

That’s so sweet!!

Oh, I’m still a pig. I just am aware of it. Think of me like a dry drunk. Thankfully, my wife understands, and I don’t try to pretend. We talk about things, rather than let them fester. She likes to look too, so you know, it is what it is. She’s pretty much the same way. It’s just that these conversations end with us doing unspeakable things to each other, and so I think I’ve found my match, lol.

It wouldn’t be possible if I wasn’t completely smitten with her.

353 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:03:12pm

re: #333 palomino

Almost as many married women cheat as men. That biological drive isn’t exclusive to one gender.

What I read and see leads me to believe that women cheat for emotional reasons, not sexual, in almost all cases. Since I am not a woman, however, I try not to speculate and just speak from my on personal reference.

354 b_sharp  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:04:43pm

re: #342 marjoriemoon

That’s not fair to say.

This is going to sound crazy (I know you all think that’s not a stretch), but I think there’s a “cheater gene”. Maybe not really a gene, but some guys cheat. Some girls cheat. It’s like drinking or drugging. It’s what they do.

Looking, having dirty pictures is not a problem and doesn’t lead to infidelity. You know that.

That is what I was trying to say, more or less, upstream with my talk about ESS. We should, as a species, have alleles that push us toward multiple partners, cheating as you put it, and alleles that push us toward monogamy. However, we also have a brain that can and does override genetic tendencies where those genetics give us a choice.

355 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:05:48pm

re: #350 Spare O’Lake

IIRC that was smoke and mirrors because after taking into account the various trust fund surpluses there was actually a net deficit. The national debt actually went up.

Link please, because that’s 100% bullshit.

356 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:05:56pm

re: #339 LudwigVanQuixote

NO that is a rationalization that both you and your wife have to accept whatever arrangement you and she have. If you are both completely ok with whatever deal you two have come up with that is great. I do not judge you and good for you.

However the argument that our biology forces us to be unfaithful is insulting and untrue.

I, and many people I know, manage to go their entire lives without cheating on their spouses or significant others, and they are not worse for wear because they saw building a monogamous commitment as more important than fooling around.

The argument that biology will almost always win really only applies to calls for celibacy and it applies to both genders.

The argument that people can not keep their commitments or see those commitments as more important is nonsense.

The argument that how they see those commitments historically suggests they make better or worse leaders is nonsense.

The argument that men just simply can’t control their peckers is nonsense.

The argument that women are somehow pristine and more controlled is nonsense. In fact if you want to get biological about it, in times past where a woman was more dependent on her husband, she was less likey to cheat, out of reasons of security. For those same reasons younger women were more likely to try to steal him. To this day, if you want to do a truly depressing experiment on human nature, go to a bar, as a man, who is moderately good looking. Wear a wedding ring and see how many *more* women come to flirt with you. I’ve actually done the experiment.

Now that there is women’s liberation, married women are just as likely to cheat. They are not dependent on their husbands for survival. So the one who wants someone “pre-vetted” will seek out a married man and the one who is married, but wants to insure discretion will seek out a married man.

Women are just as guilty.

You are putting words in my mouth and arguing against things I didn’t say. I didn’t say biology forces us to cheat, I said that people do cheat, all the time and that with men biology is the key driver.

It didn’t FORCE them to do it, it just created the need/desire. Once again I’m not saying men can’t control their sex drive but with so much overwhelming evidence of failure do think that it may be accurate to say that some men can control their sex drive and others can’t?

People are all different man.

357 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:07:27pm

re: #303 Locker

What benefits. I’m in a long term non-monogamous relationship and I don’t feel that I’m missing out on something that I would be getting if the only thing to change were monogamy. Just asking.

Well, do you have children? Do you two raise them together, each knowing they’re yours? That’s the biological foundation of monogamous relations. They are an adaptation to the human necessity for prolonged parental care. Our brains are so big and complicated that first of all the mother cannot bring forth an infant as developed as say a foal is, ready to walk. And then a long stretch of education is required, because making a living by your wits is tougher than lowering the muzzle and grazing.

Can you count on your partner? Absolutely? With money, secrets, other men/women, you name it? Can she count on you? Monogamous partners, if it’s done right, have each others’ backs.

You will perhaps be thinking that that’s impossible. Well, now you know what you’re missing.

358 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:07:31pm

re: #342 marjoriemoon

That’s not fair to say.

This is going to sound crazy (I know you all think that’s not a stretch), but I think there’s a “cheater gene”. Maybe not really a gene, but some guys cheat. Some girls cheat. It’s like drinking or drugging. It’s what they do.

Looking, having dirty pictures is not a problem and doesn’t lead to infidelity. You know that.

I don’t know that and why isn’t my statement fair to say? Your earlier comments seem to be very black and white, if you don’t want monogamy, don’t get married or get divorced. That leaves no room for reality which is that many folks enter the relationship as loving and committed partners and it goes wrong, all the time.

359 webevintage  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:07:39pm

re: #349 Slap

Right on, right on, right on.

“A deal’s a deal.”

I have no idea how they’re doing, but that’s the essence of it, right there. You agree to a set of terms, you stick to them or negotiate changes. Period.

Yep.
We will be married 27 years on Friday and it has been bad and it has been great but neither of us have ever walked because we made a promise.
Plus my hubby has this sweet, but dignified sense of honor that pretty much is his code.

“man’s gotta have a code”

360 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:07:41pm

re: #340 palomino

Moreover, she’s a married grandmother. Ewww, why are you thinking about tapping that?

Hey, grannies can be hot.
And very grateful.

361 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:07:51pm

re: #352 Fozzie Bear

Oh, I’m still a pig. I just am aware of it. Think of me like a dry drunk. Thankfully, my wife understands, and I don’t try to pretend. We talk about things, rather than let them fester. She likes to look too, so you know, it is what it is. She’s pretty much the same way. It’s just that these conversations end with us doing unspeakable things to each other, and so I think I’ve found my match, lol.

It wouldn’t be possible if I wasn’t completely smitten with her.

This is the thing. My step mother always told me, “It’s better when they love you more.” Men need that special little edge… umph… whatever it is, to stay faithful. If they’re crazy, head over heels, they’ll do much better at it.

362 b_sharp  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:08:10pm

re: #347 Fozzie Bear

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Apropos to the biology underpinning all of this.

I don’t agree with that argument, it is far to simplistic and ignores evolutionarily stable strategies.

363 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:08:36pm

re: #344 webevintage

This.

(I think monogamy is not our norm but something we strive for subconsciously even if it goes against our sexual nature because of the need for “stability and peace” and life long companionship.)

I think that’s cultural. You have been culturally programmed to believe that monogamy = ‘stability and peace’. In other models monogamy just means you can’t hook up with anyone or that you are unsuccessful in the mating game.

Sexual nature is constant, culture is not.

364 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:08:40pm

re: #355 marjoriemoon

Link please, because that’s 100% bullshit.

I don’t have it handy. Google “Clinton deficit myth”.

365 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:09:45pm

re: #362 b_sharp

I don’t agree with that argument, it is far to simplistic and ignores evolutionarily stable strategies.

It’s not a complete argument, to be sure, but it does illuminate some aspects of the situation of human sexual dynamics, I think.

366 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:12:27pm

re: #351 marjoriemoon

I don’t expect perfection, but I view cheating as the same as addicts. In fact, it most usually is an addiction. And I have two very large red flags that have served me well in my life. I don’t (or didn’t) date addicts or cheaters. If I suspected either, that was the end for me.

Hypocrisy is only a big deal when you’re doing shit like telling people not to have sex, while you’re boinking everything that moves.

You think this little lassie is his FIRST conquest??

No idea, do you know that it isn’t his first conquest? I’m not saying I don’t have my own red flags and I don’t like or accept lying and manipulation either but my point is that in lots and lots of cases, the marriage agreement is broken by men and it’s broken because they want sex with a new partner, not because they hate their wife or are an asshole or upset at their mom.

I can’t really think of any other reason besides a biological drive where a guy would jack up a good marriage to a wife he actually loves, which happens all the time, agreements not withstanding.

367 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:14:47pm

re: #356 Locker

You are putting words in my mouth and arguing against things I didn’t say. I didn’t say biology forces us to cheat, I said that people do cheat, all the time and that with men biology is the key driver.

It didn’t FORCE them to do it, it just created the need/desire. Once again I’m not saying men can’t control their sex drive but with so much overwhelming evidence of failure do think that it may be accurate to say that some men can control their sex drive and others can’t?

People are all different man.

And that is all fair. Like I said, I am not judging you or your relationship. I have a very strong sense that what people do as consenting adults, provided everything is honest, is absolutely none of my business.

It is possible I misread some of what you were saying. If so I apologize. It is possible I misread marjoree as well. But, she knows I adore her posts, and I doubt she will take it harshly.

In the end, the key thing I think is to remove preconceptions about how we think that all should work and look honeslty, at how it actually does end up working.

The fact is that many are perfectly faithful and better for it.

The fact is that many are faithful to horrible marriages that they should leave but simply can not find the power to do so.

The fact is that many who are poly will write long manifestos about how they think it is great and truly loving, yet for every one of them, that actually made it work, there are dozens of relationships that went down in flames after the first threesome.

Biology does not make us unfaithful any more than our social needs, which also evolved for strong reasons keep us faithful. Everyone falls on a spectrum.

As to my personal ideal, I am all about the monogamy.

368 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:15:12pm

re: #358 Locker

I don’t know that and why isn’t my statement fair to say? Your earlier comments seem to be very black and white, if you don’t want monogamy, don’t get married or get divorced. That leaves no room for reality which is that many folks enter the relationship as loving and committed partners and it goes wrong, all the time.

I’m not talking about relationships going wrong, lots of relationships go wrong, but men go into relationships knowing they will cheat. It’s common in Latin/Hispanic culture. Most of my Cuban girlfriends (maybe all, I’d have to think on that) their fathers had mistresses. It’s cultural. Ok, but the wives hated it and they hated it. They dealt with it, because they thought they had to except it. They don’t.

There are men, sorry, there are people, out there who don’t cheat. You just have to find them.

369 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:15:25pm

re: #364 Spare O’Lake

I don’t have it handy. Google “Clinton deficit myth”.

I’ll get right on that ;)

370 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:15:35pm

re: #357 lostlakehiker

Well, do you have children? Do you two raise them together, each knowing they’re yours? That’s the biological foundation of monogamous relations. They are an adaptation to the human necessity for prolonged parental care. Our brains are so big and complicated that first of all the mother cannot bring forth an infant as developed as say a foal is, ready to walk. And then a long stretch of education is required, because making a living by your wits is tougher than lowering the muzzle and grazing.

Can you count on your partner? Absolutely? With money, secrets, other men/women, you name it? Can she count on you? Monogamous partners, if it’s done right, have each others’ backs.

You will perhaps be thinking that that’s impossible. Well, now you know what you’re missing.

Once again you act like monogamy is the key to all this but I have it all without the monogamy part and I dispute the fact that there is any biological drive for men to be monogamous because of child care. Certain cultures and communities which are ripe with single mothers and men with multiple children from different women should punctuate my point.

371 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:16:12pm

re: #357 lostlakehiker

Oh and yes we are raising a child but it’s not your standard pairing as she’s my step-daughter.

372 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:16:40pm

re: #357 lostlakehiker

Well, do you have children? Do you two raise them together, each knowing they’re yours? That’s the biological foundation of monogamous relations. They are an adaptation to the human necessity for prolonged parental care. Our brains are so big and complicated that first of all the mother cannot bring forth an infant as developed as say a foal is, ready to walk. And then a long stretch of education is required, because making a living by your wits is tougher than lowering the muzzle and grazing.

Can you count on your partner? Absolutely? With money, secrets, other men/women, you name it? Can she count on you? Monogamous partners, if it’s done right, have each others’ backs.

You will perhaps be thinking that that’s impossible. Well, now you know what you’re missing.

I don’t usually like what you say, but that was very nice.

373 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:16:57pm

re: #361 marjoriemoon

This is the thing. My step mother always told me, “It’s better when they love you more.” Men need that special little edge… umph… whatever it is, to stay faithful. If they’re crazy, head over heels, they’ll do much better at it.

Bullshit.

Or at least bullshit in terms of that only applying to men.

374 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:18:20pm

re: #350 Spare O’Lake

IIRC that was smoke and mirrors because after taking into account the various trust fund surpluses there was actually a net deficit. The national debt actually went up.

It was a budget surplus, not a debt surplus. It’s a common trick to conflate the deficit and debt to make a bullshit argument sound like it might have merit.

375 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:18:45pm

re: #361 marjoriemoon

This is the thing. My step mother always told me, “It’s better when they love you more.” Men need that special little edge… umph… whatever it is, to stay faithful. If they’re crazy, head over heels, they’ll do much better at it.

Men are more visually oriented but we aren’t as different as you assert, despite my being faithful to her my ex-wife demonstrated that she didn’t have that “special little edge” either. Lots of women cheat.

376 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:18:47pm

re: #370 Locker

Once again you act like monogamy is the key to all this but I have it all without the monogamy part and I dispute the fact that there is any biological drive for men to be monogamous because of child care. Certain cultures and communities which are ripe with single mothers and men with multiple children from different women should punctuate my point.

I’m sorry, did I miss it? You have an open marriage? She has affairs too?

Single mothers and men with multiple children. So do the children know who their fathers are? Or is it just a free for all.

377 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:19:27pm

re: #375 goddamnedfrank

Men are more visually oriented but we aren’t as different as you assert, despite my being faithful to her my ex-wife demonstrated that she didn’t have that “special little edge” either. Lots of women cheat.

Absolutely. Women do cheat. I just don’t think as much or as often.

378 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:19:38pm

re: #261 Locker

The problem is that a man never wants monogamy, even if you convince him that he wants it. We are biologically programmed to mate with anything and everything we can get our hands on, period. He might love you, he might jam himself into a monogamy model just to be with you but when he fucks up later it’s kind of obtuse to say “if you don’t want monogamy don’t marry” because if it were taken literally no man would ever marry.

The prospect of future pain and indignity is sufficiently real that we human mice can walk away from the fucking cheese in the fucking trap. Because that’s what infidelity is.

In any reasonable marriage you’ll get affectionate sex and other benefits. You can throw that all away on a fling. Nibble nibble blam.

379 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:20:09pm

re: #373 LudwigVanQuixote

Bullshit.

Or at least bullshit in terms of that only applying to men.

I didn’t think that would go over well with the males here, but I didn’t really say it for you guys ;)

380 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:20:19pm

re: #368 marjoriemoon

I’m not talking about relationships going wrong, lots of relationships go wrong, but men go into relationships knowing they will cheat. It’s common in Latin/Hispanic culture. Most of my Cuban girlfriends (maybe all, I’d have to think on that) their fathers had mistresses. It’s cultural. Ok, but the wives hated it and they hated it. They dealt with it, because they thought they had to except it. They don’t.

There are men, sorry, there are people, out there who don’t cheat. You just have to find them.

So are you assuming our “reference guy” in the above article went into his relationship knowing he was going to cheat?

Honestly I look at it like an alcoholic (someone else may have said this). You can marry an sober alcoholic who promises (and means it) that he’s done drinking and won’t ever do it again. You might even believe him but can you really act shocked when he falls off the wagon again? Making a promise doesn’t change ones nature and some folks are strong or lucky enough to maintain and some aren’t.

381 Kobyashi Maru  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:20:40pm

re: #340 palomino

NFW, Tracey Jackson is not 70, 37 maybe…..unless you mean the former NBA star who is like 50ish

382 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:22:06pm

re: #377 marjoriemoon

Absolutely. Women do cheat. I just don’t think as much or as often.

And that is where you are wrong. Just wrong. It takes at least two people to make cheating happen. IS the lover less of a cheater?

As to being the married spouse who strays, women do that all the time. They always have. In fact a large portion of women’s literature and liffetie telivision and Oprah type shows seem to have a common theme of she is married to a lout who never talks to her, and she tries so hard to be noticed, but then the dashing young man arrives.

It is the same damn thing and I really do not understand why you think it is that different for women.

383 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:22:16pm

re: #376 marjoriemoon

I’m sorry, did I miss it? You have an open marriage? She has affairs too?

Single mothers and men with multiple children. So do the children know who their fathers are? Or is it just a free for all.

I’m speaking about a non-monogamous relationship, yes. The single mothers and men with multiple children isn’t an example so you’d probably have to ask the individual children if they know their father.

384 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:22:46pm

re: #380 Locker

So are you assuming our “reference guy” in the above article went into his relationship knowing he was going to cheat?

Honestly I look at it like an alcoholic (someone else may have said this). You can marry an sober alcoholic who promises (and means it) that he’s done drinking and won’t ever do it again. You might even believe him but can you really act shocked when he falls off the wagon again? Making a promise doesn’t change ones nature and some folks are strong or lucky enough to maintain and some aren’t.

I’m saying Souder was a cheater before this woman. I’m saying she wasn’t the first. Yes, without a stitch of proof, I’m saying it. Because 9 times out of 10, it’s true.

hehe I made the addict analogy. I would no more marry a man in recovery than a cheater in recovery. Been there, done that and would never do it again.

385 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:22:47pm

re: #355 marjoriemoon

Link please, because that’s 100% bullshit.


Here’s something I just looked up for you. There’s a lot more out there, and it’s not bullshit IMO.

It is government’s job to make and enforce the rules that allow a civilized society to flourish. But it has a dismal record of regulating itself. Imagine, for instance, if a corporation, seeking to make its bottom line look better, transferred employee contributions from the company pension fund to its own accounts, replaced the money with general obligation corporate bonds, and called the money it expropriated income. We all know what would happen: The company accountants would refuse to certify the books and management would likely — and rightly — end up in jail.

But that is exactly what the federal government (which, unlike corporations, decides how to keep its own books) does with Social Security. In the late 1990s, the government was running what it — and a largely unquestioning Washington press corps — called budget “surpluses.” But the national debt still increased in every single one of those years because the government was borrowing money to create the “surpluses.”
online.wsj.com

386 Kobyashi Maru  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:22:54pm

D’oh! Pelosi, now she is one GM**F….

387 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:22:56pm

re: #379 marjoriemoon

I didn’t think that would go over well with the males here, but I didn’t really say it for you guys ;)

OK fine, but it is actually not true and sexist.

Cheating women have been around just as long as there were cheating men.

388 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:22:59pm

re: #378 lostlakehiker

The prospect of future pain and indignity is sufficiently real that we human mice can walk away from the fucking cheese in the fucking trap. Because that’s what infidelity is.

In any reasonable marriage you’ll get affectionate sex and other benefits. You can throw that all away on a fling. Nibble nibble blam.

Happens all the time.

389 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:22:59pm

re: #377 marjoriemoon

Absolutely. Women do cheat. I just don’t think as much or as often.

Bullshit.

390 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:25:17pm

re: #377 marjoriemoon

Absolutely. Women do cheat. I just don’t think as much or as often.

Recent studies place it at about equal.

391 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:26:40pm

re: #382 LudwigVanQuixote

And that is where you are wrong. Just wrong. It takes at least two people to make cheating happen. IS the lover less of a cheater?

As to being the married spouse who strays, women do that all the time. They always have. In fact a large portion of women’s literature and liffetie telivision and Oprah type shows seem to have a common theme of she is married to a lout who never talks to her, and she tries so hard to be noticed, but then the dashing young man arrives.

It is the same damn thing and I really do not understand why you think it is that different for women.

Lifetime has nothing to do with actual real life, just saying. Lifetime shows women getting their asses beaten on a daily basis. Well I think they changed that format. Now all the women are heartless, cold, demon bitches. Not a fan of the Oprah either.

When you are married you make a promise to your spouse not to cheat. When you break that promise, that makes YOU the cheater. If the other person isn’t married, they made no promises to anyone. They aren’t AS culpable, unless, of course, they are married.

392 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:26:58pm

re: #374 darthstar

It was a budget surplus, not a debt surplus. It’s a common trick to conflate the deficit and debt to make a bullshit argument sound like it might have merit.

Any moron knows the difference between a budget deficit and the national debt (which is what I think you must have been trying to say).
Bottom Line: If the national debt was more at the end of the year than at the beginning of the year, then there was no real surplus.

393 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:27:13pm

I see absolutely no reason to believe women are any more or less likely to be faithful sexually. For every pig of a man, there is out there somewhere a slut. That’s just how it is.

394 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:27:24pm

re: #390 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Recent studies place it at about equal.

Any attorney who handles divorce will tell you that. Any rabbi who counsels couples will tell you that. Any marriage counselor who is secular will tell you that.

395 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:27:38pm

re: #390 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Recent studies place it at about equal.

Then what’s all this talk Locker said about men being wired to have sex constantly? (or something similar to that). Didn’t we just have an entire discussion on the male libido?

396 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:28:11pm

re: #370 Locker

Once again you act like monogamy is the key to all this but I have it all without the monogamy part and I dispute the fact that there is any biological drive for men to be monogamous because of child care. Certain cultures and communities which are ripe with single mothers and men with multiple children from different women should punctuate my point.

In climates where winters are harsh and making it through is always a challenge, with a long history of pastoral or agricultural economies, monogamy is more common. A woman left to shift for herself and her child will starve. An average man trying to keep both a wife and a mistress will bring in too little crops or earn too little money to sustain both. That would be Europe and Northeast Asia and Siberia in between.

In climates where the hazards of life are less predictable and disease strikes children down almost at random, monogamy doesn’t seem to be as common. It’s like there’s nothing the parent can do to secure the life of the child, even if they did forge such a bond. So, have many and hope for the best.

397 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:28:37pm

re: #395 marjoriemoon

Then what’s all this talk Locker said about men being wired to have sex constantly? (or something similar to that). Didn’t we just have an entire discussion on the male libido?

I think it possible that women cheat just as often, but perhaps for slightly different reasons.

398 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:29:06pm

re: #198 Spare O’Lake

Not unless you wanted your testicles served to you for dinner.

A First Lady can’t win. Clinton fooled around, the theory went, because Hillary was a ball-buster. Now it turns out that Obama’s not fooling around because the same applies to Michelle?

399 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:29:56pm

re: #387 LudwigVanQuixote

OK fine, but it is actually not true and sexist.

Cheating women have been around just as long as there were cheating men.

Well the statement I made is that it’s better if the man loves the woman more and I’ve found that statement, after 2 husbands and more boyfriends that I’d like to count, to be 100% true. Men don’t take that well, I know…

I don’t have the figures on men v. women, but if there are some, I’d like to see them.

400 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:30:16pm

re: #200 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, IN the case of GW, it was common and expected for a Gentleman of his position to have a mistress. We should include Jefferson in that list as well. there are polite references to his mistresses in the common talk amongst his colleagues and instructions from his estates for their upkeep. The only major founding father who did not get around was John Adams. He was deeply in love with his wife.

Also, New England was a whole different cultural ball of wax. And I don’t think Adams could have AFFORDED a mistress.

401 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:31:01pm

re: #384 marjoriemoon

I’m saying Souder was a cheater before this woman. I’m saying she wasn’t the first. Yes, without a stitch of proof, I’m saying it. Because 9 times out of 10, it’s true.

hehe I made the addict analogy. I would no more marry a man in recovery than a cheater in recovery. Been there, done that and would never do it again.

Laugh well that’s my point. A monogamous man is just a polygamous man in recovery. Such a nice, short way to say it. Some are successful and lots aren’t. Some fall off the wagon once and never again, some fall off once and never get back on.

402 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:31:08pm

re: #391 marjoriemoon

Lifetime has nothing to do with actual real life, just saying. Lifetime shows women getting their asses beaten on a daily basis. Well I think they changed that format. Now all the women are heartless, cold, demon bitches. Not a fan of the Oprah either.

It would not be such a recurring theme if it did not resonate, and Lifetime was one example. You can not deny that a lot of the media that women buy have that theme. If women were so opposed to cheating because something inherent about being female made cheating unacceptable they would not buy such entertainment in droves.

When you are married you make a promise to your spouse not to cheat. When you break that promise, that makes YOU the cheater. If the other person isn’t married, they made no promises to anyone. They aren’t AS culpable, unless, of course, they are married.

ON that, you will have to blame me for taking a more traditional view in which both parties to adultery, male and female are stoned, and no distinction is made for whether or not the married one was male or female. However, I see your point there, so I will simply counter with the fact that married women cheat just as often as men do.

403 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:31:51pm

re: #397 Fozzie Bear

I think it possible that women cheat just as often, but perhaps for slightly different reasons.

Could be. I just don’t think women think about sex as much as men. Women don’t need sex like men need sex. Don’t men masturbate daily?

404 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:32:16pm

re: #398 SanFranciscoZionist

I think Michelle is a hottie, and she probably takes good care of the presidential unit.

I can’t remember what comedian said it, but the man who has access to the red button had better be very very satisfied at all times. You don’t want him getting tense, lol.

405 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:32:22pm

re: #395 marjoriemoon

Then what’s all this talk Locker said about men being wired to have sex constantly? (or something similar to that). Didn’t we just have an entire discussion on the male libido?

Well, the same studies also concluded women are better at covering it up.

Think men are the unfaithful sex? A study shows WOMEN are the biggest cheats - they’re just better at lying about it

According to Dr David Holmes, a psychologist at Manchester Metropolitan University, women are having more affairs than ever - recent studies say the figure is around 20 per cent for men and a bit over 15 per cent for women - but they behave very differently from men when they cheat.

‘The biggest difference is that women are much better at keeping their affairs secret,’ he says. ‘If you look at the studies into paternity, even conservative figures show that between eight and 15 per cent of children haven’t been fathered by the man who thinks he’s the biological parent.’

406 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:32:26pm

re: #396 lostlakehiker

In climates where winters are harsh and making it through is always a challenge, with a long history of pastoral or agricultural economies, monogamy is more common. A woman left to shift for herself and her child will starve. An average man trying to keep both a wife and a mistress will bring in too little crops or earn too little money to sustain both. That would be Europe and Northeast Asia and Siberia in between.

In climates where the hazards of life are less predictable and disease strikes children down almost at random, monogamy doesn’t seem to be as common. It’s like there’s nothing the parent can do to secure the life of the child, even if they did forge such a bond. So, have many and hope for the best.

Nice little climate twist on the more common 3rd world poverty argument. If you’re correct then AGW will finish off monogamy.

407 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:32:55pm

re: #395 marjoriemoon

Then what’s all this talk Locker said about men being wired to have sex constantly? (or something similar to that). Didn’t we just have an entire discussion on the male libido?

Yes you too did, and most of the other people here think it was biased from both of you.

408 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:33:12pm

re: #388 Locker

Happens all the time.

It doesn’t just “happen”. It’s a decision, and a bad one in most cases. And if it counted for something, what of the wronged partner? Not only does the cheater end up worse off than if he/she had made the other decision, but the cheatee is hurt. Trust is broken. Financial security is often out the window. The lives of children, if there are any, are upended.

Pain all around. Foreseeable pain. Inevitable, almost. What are brains good for, if not to steer clear of such coasts?

409 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:33:42pm

re: #407 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes you too did, and most of the other people here think it was biased from both of you.

Agreed.

410 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:34:42pm

re: #392 Spare O’Lake

Any moron knows the difference between a budget deficit and the national debt (which is what I think you must have been trying to say).
Bottom Line: If the national debt was more at the end of the year than at the beginning of the year, then there was no real surplus.

yourself excluded, it would appear.

411 b_sharp  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:34:49pm

re: #395 marjoriemoon

Then what’s all this talk Locker said about men being wired to have sex constantly? (or something similar to that). Didn’t we just have an entire discussion on the male libido?

Men have traditionally been more able to get away with it (social acceptance). This means the cost/benefit ratio is different for men than for women. As men are less successful at getting away with it, and/or women become more successful at getting away with it, the ratios become more similar. In our culture, the perceived benefits outweigh the costs for a growing segment of the population. Heavy accent on the word ‘perceived’.

412 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:34:50pm

re: #223 Locker

It’s not bullshit, it’s reality. If you think, for a single second, that any other heterosexual male doesn’t want to have as many women as he can you are dreaming and a large percentage of them are married.

Society can demand monogamy all it wants to but just like with teenagers… overriding a biological drive isn’t a very successful process. Do you really think he got married thinking “haha stupid cow! Just wait until I have some staffers to boink!”.

It’s likely that he went in just like most of us and then had his biology lead him astray. It happens constantly.

An animal with a big enough brain to make a contract should have a big enough brain not to enter one it can’t keep.

413 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:34:54pm

re: #398 SanFranciscoZionist

A First Lady can’t win. Clinton fooled around, the theory went, because Hillary was a ball-buster. Now it turns out that Obama’s not fooling around because the same applies to Michelle?

Heh. I don’t think Bill Clinton in his prime gave a flying fuck what Hillary thought.

414 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:34:54pm

And to think, I can remember a time not too long ago when agreeing with Ludwig would have made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

///

I kid, I kid

415 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:35:13pm

re: #407 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes you too did, and most of the other people here think it was biased from both of you.

Well first you don’t speak for anyone other than yourself. Second you show me a single line of text anywhere in this thread where I make any claim that men cheat more often than women and I’ll be happy to apologize. I’m feeling fairly safe since I said nothing of the sort.

416 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:36:21pm

re: #400 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, New England was a whole different cultural ball of wax. And I don’t think Adams could have AFFORDED a mistress.

Adams didn’t chase after wealth the way some of the others did, because he’d made a decision that allowed him to live well without upscale income or expenditure. The decision? Not to chase after skirts.

I read a biography of Adams. He was a challenge to the ladies of France, during his stint there. They gave it the good old college try. But some men are just rock solid.

417 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:36:31pm

re: #408 lostlakehiker

It doesn’t just “happen”. It’s a decision, and a bad one in most cases. And if it counted for something, what of the wronged partner? Not only does the cheater end up worse off than if he/she had made the other decision, but the cheatee is hurt. Trust is broken. Financial security is often out the window. The lives of children, if there are any, are upended.

Pain all around. Foreseeable pain. Inevitable, almost. What are brains good for, if not to steer clear of such coasts?

All that doesn’t change the fact that it happens, even if it’s a bad idea, even if it hurts their spouse, even if it hurts the cheater, which it often does. All of these people have brains… what is your explanation?

418 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:37:15pm

re: #412 SanFranciscoZionist

An animal with a big enough brain to make a contract should have a big enough brain not to enter one it can’t keep.

How things should be and how they are don’t normally line up very well.

419 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:37:44pm

re: #405 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Daily Mail? You can do better. I have faith in you.

According to Dr David Holmes, a psychologist at Manchester Metropolitan University, women are having more affairs than ever - recent studies say the figure is around 20 per cent for men and a bit over 15 per cent for women - but they behave very differently from men when they cheat.

#1, that’s not a study “recent studies say”. Show me. #2, 15% compared to 20% is not exactly a majority.

420 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:37:48pm

re: #231 Spare O’Lake

Does the idea of a woman beating the crap out of her lying, cheating, scumbag spouse bother you?

Not really, however it’s not terribly flattering to a woman or to her spouse to assume that the threat of domestic violence is all that keeps him chaste.

421 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:39:03pm

re: #232 Locker

Are you saying that taking vows seriously turns off your dick? You may behave, not speak up, keep the fact that your eyes are automatically drawn to every single female you see for an assessment to yourself but it’s still there.

True for women as well, but we’re taught to pretend it’s not.

However, what you actually do is entirely up to you. Biology may flood blood to your bits, but it doesn’t move your muscles without your say-so.

422 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:39:17pm
Still, the changes in the landscape of cheating have surprised researchers who have found that infidelity is on the rise and “women appear to be closing the adultery gap: younger women appear to be cheating on their spouses nearly as often as men.”

That’s not to say that the guys are entirely off the hook. Medical advances like Viagra and erectile dysfunction remedies ensure that those with XY chromosomes can cheat longer and um, stronger. But when it comes to the younger set, women may be finding more opportunities to cheat via interoffice affairs and the good ‘ole World Wide Web. While men might be content to “stray” by looking at porn—a relatively benign form of infidelity in the grand scheme of things—Atlanta psychiatrist Dr. Frank Pittman notes that he’s observed more women acknowledging sexual affairs that began with electronic contact born out of the desire to emotionally connect with someone on a more intimate (and therefore stereotypically “feminine”) level.

So yes, it would appear that women certainly cheat more than they’re usually given credit for. (Of course, who wants to take credit for something as damaging as an extramarital affair?) But when it comes to our original second question pertaining to the idea that the fairer sex is more likely to lie about it due to societal double standards, one wonders if the modern woman has just become more open about her transgressions than in the past?

423 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:39:24pm

re: #414 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And to think, I can remember a time not too long ago when agreeing with Ludwig would have made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

///

I kid, I kid

You’re welcome :)

424 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:39:28pm

re: #310 marjoriemoon

If I’m missing some responses, I apologize in advance… I’m busy having sex at my computer with a coworker. Don’t tell my husband.


I call BS. Link? With pix?
/:-)

425 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:39:56pm

re: #401 Locker

Laugh well that’s my point. A monogamous man is just a polygamous man in recovery. Such a nice, short way to say it. Some are successful and lots aren’t. Some fall off the wagon once and never again, some fall off once and never get back on.

Broaden your assumptions on the human constant. Not everyone is is wired or conditioned to a single spec.

426 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:40:41pm

re: #252 Shiplord Kirel

Bristol Palin to hit speakers’ circuit

Well, heck.

427 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:40:59pm

re: #422 goddamnedfrank

That’s TWO surveys that show men cheat more. Even if women are “closing the gap.” So am I right??

428 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:41:42pm

re: #412 SanFranciscoZionist

An animal with a big enough brain to make a contract should have a big enough brain not to enter one it can’t keep.

Are you saying that size does matter?

429 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:41:55pm

re: #261 Locker

The problem is that a man never wants monogamy, even if you convince him that he wants it. We are biologically programmed to mate with anything and everything we can get our hands on, period. He might love you, he might jam himself into a monogamy model just to be with you but when he fucks up later it’s kind of obtuse to say “if you don’t want monogamy don’t marry” because if it were taken literally no man would ever marry.

You know, I know a fair number of men who seem quite happy in monogamous relationships.

430 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:41:58pm

re: #421 SanFranciscoZionist

True for women as well, but we’re taught to pretend it’s not.

However, what you actually do is entirely up to you. Biology may flood blood to your bits, but it doesn’t move your muscles without your say-so.

Well there’s one muscle it moves without my say-so all the time.. isn’t that the thrust of the discussion? ;)

431 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:43:23pm

re: #425 Decatur Deb

Broaden your assumptions on the human constant. Not everyone is is wired or conditioned to a single spec.

There may be the occasional male with low or no sex drive but for the most part I would say that yes, everyone (male) is wired on a few single specs. Eat, drink, expunge, reproduce… A LOT!

432 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:43:32pm

re: #430 Locker

Well there’s one muscle it moves without my say-so all the time.. isn’t that the thrust of the discussion? ;)

I think the conversation is much deeper than that.

433 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:44:04pm

re: #427 marjoriemoon

That’s TWO surveys that show men cheat more. Even if women are “closing the gap.” So am I right??

Right about what, exactly?

Women might be slightly less likely to cheat, but then again, they probably have slightly fewer opportunities in a society that hasn’t yet achieved total equality between the sexes.

It certainly isn’t a male problem. It’s a human problem.

434 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:44:12pm

re: #277 Gus 802

I am trying, for a moment, to imagine this kind of deal being made available to the teenage single-mom daughter of a Liberal Democrat.

Then I’m trying to imagine the screaming and the wailing from the Morality Pundit Squad over it.

My ears hurt now.

435 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:44:22pm

re: #429 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I know a fair number of men who seem quite happy in monogamous relationships.

Me too.. but I believe I’m missing your point. Help me out.

436 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:44:28pm

re: #417 Locker

All that doesn’t change the fact that it happens, even if it’s a bad idea, even if it hurts their spouse, even if it hurts the cheater, which it often does. All of these people have brains… what is your explanation?

They have brains. But either they don’t use them, or they’re not very good brains. A pilot who makes a controlled flight into terrain has brains too, for what good they do him. Until they’re splattered on the ground with the rest of the wreckage.

The cheater who sires a lust-child can at least explain himself with the impeccable logic that hey, everybody else is hurtin but I got my genes into the next generation so there. Historically, that was the nearly inevitable consequence of an affair, which would explain why men of power and authority took that route. It paid in Darwinian coin. For the women, too, it paid, sometimes. To be the mother of the bastard son of the prince might be worth something.

Nowadays, with birth control, that logic, sociopathic but to some degree effective, fails entirely.

437 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:44:36pm

re: #419 marjoriemoon

The Daily Mail? You can do better. I have faith in you.


#1, that’s not a study “recent studies say”. Show me. #2, 15% compared to 20% is not exactly a majority.

^ a b c d Jayson, Sharon (2008-11-17). “Getting reliable data on infidelity isn’t easy”. USA Today. www.usatoday.com Retrieved 2009-10-19.
^ Close encounters: Communication in relationships.Guerrero , L.K. , Anderson, P.A. , & Afifi, W.A. (2007).Sage Publications.
^ Truth About Deception [1]
^ Truth About Deception [2]
^ Clinical Psychology resources on infidelity [3]
^ Willow Lawson - Stolen Kisses
^ Close encounters: Communication in relationships.Guerrero , L.K. , Anderson, P.A. , & Afifi, W.A. (2007).Sage Publications.
^ Gottman’s Sound Marital House Model
^ Rescuing Marriages Before They Begin
^ Women’s Infidelity by Michelle Langley (ISBN 0-9767726-0-4) Straight talk about why women have affairs, 2005 [4]
^ John Elliott and Rachel Dobson Straying wives match men as marital cheats The Times October 26, 2003.
^ a b Stoller, Gary (2007-04-23). “Infidelity is in the air for road warriors”. USA Today. www.usatoday.com Retrieved 2009-10-19.
^ Truth About Deception [5]
^ If how and when to tell children conceived or witnesses in an affair by Clinical Psychologist
^ Gender Differences, Sexuality and Emotional Infidelity [6]
^ ”Adultery: An Analysis of Love and Betrayal by Annette Lawson.
^ Adultery by Louise DeSalvo.
^ The State of Affairs by Jean Duncombe, Karen Harrison, Graham Allan, and Dennis Marsden
^ Adultery by Louise DeSalvo.
^ Adultery Has Roots in Psychology [7]
^ Adultery by Louise DeSalvo. Page 145
^ Infidelity: Is Monogamy Just a Myth [8]
^ The State of Affairs by Jean Duncombe, Karen Harrison, Graham Allan, and Dennis Marsden
^ The State of Affairs by Jean Duncombe, Karen Harrison, Graham Allan, and Dennis Marsden
^ Sex Differences in Jealousy: The Case of Internet Infidelity by Hinke A. K. Groothof, Pieternel Dijkstra and Dick P. H. Barelds
^ The Philosophy of Sex by Alan Soble and Nicholas Power
^ Sex Differences in Jealousy: The Case of Internet Infidelity by Hinke A. K. Groothof, Pieternel Dijkstra and Dick P. H. Barelds
^ Online Infidelity in Internet Chat Rooms: An Ethnographic Exploration [9]
^ Clinical Psychology summary [11]
^ Office Mate: The Employee Handbook for Finding—and Managing—Romance on the Job by Stephanie Losee and Helaine Olen.
^ The New Infidelity, Newsweek[12]
^ Dr. Debra Laino Phd. “Why Women Cheat”. ShaveMagazine.com. www.shavemagazine.com Retrieved 2010-02-10.
^ Meyer, Cathy - Types of Infidelity
^ Mayo Clinic - Marriage counseling: Working through relationship problems
^ Examples of Operatic Characters and Infidelity
^ Surviving Infidelity: What Wives Do When Men Cheat [13]

438 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:44:50pm

re: #432 darthstar

I think the conversation is much deeper than that.

Depends on the level of the blessing.

439 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:45:36pm

re: #438 Locker

Well played, sir.

440 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:45:44pm

re: #293 LudwigVanQuixote

Don’t go there. Unless the man is gay, there was a woman involved in the adultery who shares precisely one half the responsibility.

Ah, but Ludwig, you forget. Men have sex out of lust. Women do it because they want love, or access to power.

//

441 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:46:08pm

re: #433 Fozzie Bear

Right about what, exactly?

Women might be slightly less likely to cheat, but then again, they probably have slightly fewer opportunities in a society that hasn’t yet achieved total equality between the sexes.

It certainly isn’t a male problem. It’s a human problem.

I’m doing better! I got a “slightly less likely” out of you!!

Women have as much opportunity as men. They work too. They ain’t home poppin out the chillins.

Your bros here think women cheat at least as much as men. I said they do not. And I was proved here they do not.

442 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:46:18pm

re: #427 marjoriemoon

That’s TWO surveys that show men cheat more. Even if women are “closing the gap.” So am I right??

On a technical and somewhat pedantic level, yes. Also the surveys only purport to show relative levels of self-reporting between men and women, actual cheating rates are of course impossible to measure directly. Society is sexist, men’s reputations aren’t harmed as much by an admission of infidelity, the stud vs. slut label, which very well may skew the results.

443 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:47:18pm

re: #437 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

^ a b c d Jayson, Sharon (2008-11-17). “Getting reliable data on infidelity isn’t easy”. USA Today. [Link: www.usatoday.com…] Retrieved 2009-10-19.
^ Close encounters: Communication in relationships.Guerrero , L.K. , Anderson, P.A. , & Afifi, W.A. (2007).Sage Publications.
^ Truth About Deception [1]
^ Truth About Deception [2]
^ Clinical Psychology resources on infidelity [3]
^ Willow Lawson - Stolen Kisses
^ Close encounters: Communication in relationships.Guerrero , L.K. , Anderson, P.A. , & Afifi, W.A. (2007).Sage Publications.
^ Gottman’s Sound Marital House Model
^ Rescuing Marriages Before They Begin
^ Women’s Infidelity by Michelle Langley (ISBN 0-9767726-0-4) Straight talk about why women have affairs, 2005 [4]
^ John Elliott and Rachel Dobson Straying wives match men as marital cheats The Times October 26, 2003.
^ a b Stoller, Gary (2007-04-23). “Infidelity is in the air for road warriors”. USA Today. [Link: www.usatoday.com…] Retrieved 2009-10-19.
^ Truth About Deception [5]
^ If how and when to tell children conceived or witnesses in an affair by Clinical Psychologist
^ Gender Differences, Sexuality and Emotional Infidelity [6]
^ ”Adultery: An Analysis of Love and Betrayal by Annette Lawson.
^ Adultery by Louise DeSalvo.
^ The State of Affairs by Jean Duncombe, Karen Harrison, Graham Allan, and Dennis Marsden
^ Adultery by Louise DeSalvo.
^ Adultery Has Roots in Psychology [7]
^ Adultery by Louise DeSalvo. Page 145
^ Infidelity: Is Monogamy Just a Myth [8]
^ The State of Affairs by Jean Duncombe, Karen Harrison, Graham Allan, and Dennis Marsden
^ The State of Affairs by Jean Duncombe, Karen Harrison, Graham Allan, and Dennis Marsden
^ Sex Differences in Jealousy: The Case of Internet Infidelity by Hinke A. K. Groothof, Pieternel Dijkstra and Dick P. H. Barelds
^ The Philosophy of Sex by Alan Soble and Nicholas Power
^ Sex Differences in Jealousy: The Case of Internet Infidelity by Hinke A. K. Groothof, Pieternel Dijkstra and Dick P. H. Barelds
^ Online Infidelity in Internet Chat Rooms: An Ethnographic Exploration [9]
^ Clinical Psychology summary [11]
^ Office Mate: The Employee Handbook for Finding—and Managing—Romance on the Job by Stephanie Losee and Helaine Olen.
^ The New Infidelity, Newsweek[12]
^ Dr. Debra Laino Phd. “Why Women Cheat”. ShaveMagazine.com. [Link: www.shavemagazine.com…] Retrieved 2010-02-10.
^ Meyer, Cathy - Types of Infidelity
^ Mayo Clinic - Marriage counseling: Working through relationship problems
^ Examples of Operatic Characters and Infidelity
^ Surviving Infidelity: What Wives Do When Men Cheat [13]

Ack, I’m not writing a thesis! Any of that say that women cheat more or as much?

444 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:48:01pm

re: #432 darthstar

I think the conversation is much deeper than that.

Your position may be untenable.

445 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:48:15pm

re: #442 goddamnedfrank

On a technical and somewhat pedantic level, yes. Also the surveys only purport to show relative levels of self-reporting between men and women, actual cheating rates are of course impossible to measure directly. Society is sexist, men’s reputations aren’t harmed as much by an admission of infidelity, the stud vs. slut label, which very well may skew the results.

I think they could be measured as far as divorce goes. That would be a matter of record. I don’t know how they are measured actually.

446 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:48:34pm

re: #442 goddamnedfrank

On a technical and somewhat pedantic level, yes. Also the surveys only purport to show relative levels of self-reporting between men and women, actual cheating rates are of course impossible to measure directly. Society is sexist, men’s reputations aren’t harmed as much by an admission of infidelity, the stud vs. slut label, which very well may skew the results.

It seems that the point was glossed over earlier but regardless of the percentages men cheat primarily for sex while women cheat primarily for emotional reasons. Oh and btw sluts rule and I mean that in a good way.

447 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:48:47pm

re: #431 Locker

There may be the occasional male with low or no sex drive but for the most part I would say that yes, everyone (male) is wired on a few single specs. Eat, drink, expunge, reproduce… A LOT!

It’s lonely out here on the tail of the bell-curve.

448 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:49:46pm

re: #447 Decatur Deb

It’s lonely out here on the tail of the bell-curve.

Say it isn’t so! I think you can rent a stunt penis here:

w0w.sexualstandin.com

449 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:49:56pm

re: #441 marjoriemoon

I’m doing better! I got a “slightly less likely” out of you!!

Women have as much opportunity as men. They work too. They ain’t home poppin out the chillins.

Your bros here think women cheat at least as much as men. I said they do not. And I was proved here they do not.

Many, many women still are at home poppin out the chillins. Lets not pretend that we have as a society provided actually equal opportunities for the sexes in terms of philandering. Look at the laundry list of studies linked above. Women stray, alot. They aren’t purer of heart, or in practice.

I think a 5% disparity could easily be accounted for by looking at how many women are still virtually the chattel of men. The feminist movement wasn’t completely successful, just mostly so.

450 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:50:37pm

re: #443 marjoriemoon

Ack, I’m not writing a thesis! Any of that say that women cheat more or as much?

Some have concluded women cheat more. Some the opposite.

451 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:51:08pm

re: #403 marjoriemoon

Could be. I just don’t think women think about sex as much as men. Women don’t need sex like men need sex. Don’t men masturbate daily?

So do an awful lot of women…

452 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:51:43pm

re: #445 marjoriemoon

I think they could be measured as far as divorce goes. That would be a matter of record. I don’t know how they are measured actually.

There’s no court record of my ex-wife cheating on me, California is a no-fault divorce state, 48 States of the Union are. Court records will tell you nothing.

453 darthstar  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:51:46pm

re: #444 Spare O’Lake

Your position may be untenable.

Face north, Jack.

454 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:52:03pm

re: #448 Locker

Say it isn’t so! I think you can rent a stunt penis here:

w0w.sexualstandin.com

I married the second girl I ever loved, the first and last I ever bedded. The first of our 4 children was born 9 mos and 5 days later.

455 Nick Morgan  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:52:28pm

Crap! I’m backing out of this like Hedley lamarr in “Blazing Saddles.”

456 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:52:35pm

re: #443 marjoriemoon

Ack, I’m not writing a thesis! Any of that say that women cheat more or as much?

Based on a study of divorces where extramarital affairs were listed as the reason for the divorce, 55% of the time it was the man, 45% of the time, the woman.

457 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:52:39pm

re: #451 SanFranciscoZionist

So do an awful lot of women…

And to think I was an SFZ fan BEFORE this post… WOOP WOOP! ;)

458 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:53:37pm

re: #454 Decatur Deb

I married the second girl I ever loved, the first and last I ever bedded. The first of our 4 children was born 9 mos and 5 days later.

Ah laugh! I thought you were talking about the sex drive bell curve. Obviously not… congratulations to you and the better half. That’s nice work there!

459 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:53:56pm

re: #403 marjoriemoon

Don’t men masturbate daily?

Only if the wife is around.
*ducks*

460 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:54:13pm

re: #415 Locker

Well first you don’t speak for anyone other than yourself. Second you show me a single line of text anywhere in this thread where I make any claim that men cheat more often than women and I’ll be happy to apologize. I’m feeling fairly safe since I said nothing of the sort.

Look I am not trying to jump on you. However, the notion that men just can’t control their libidos as well as women, because biology makes them perpetually more horny, and therefore male infidelity is more tolerable is ludicrous.

If you did not make that argument I misread you and I apologize. If you did, you are just not looking at the facts. Just as many married women cheat in this society. That’s really all there is to it. The lack of cheating married women in other societies is more of a function of feminine repression than of feminine libido. Opportunity matters. Living in a society where a woman might be killed for even being suspected of infidelity matters.

IF she is from a place where husbands are as equally replaceable as wives, like ours, she has just as much reason to cheat, or not cheat as a man.

461 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:54:26pm

re: #435 Locker

Me too.. but I believe I’m missing your point. Help me out.

I’m not sure I have one, except that men and women are equally horny, and equally responsible for their actions.

However, the cultural stakes on cheating for women have often been much, much higher.

462 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:55:02pm

re: #445 marjoriemoon

I think they could be measured as far as divorce goes. That would be a matter of record. I don’t know how they are measured actually.

And the attorneys in my family who have handled divorces will tell you that they get just as many male as female clients and just as many male as female cheaters.

463 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:55:38pm

re: #461 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m not sure I have one, except that men and women are equally horny, and equally responsible for their actions.

However, the cultural stakes on cheating for women have often been much, much higher.

Amen. I have been arguing that my last dozen posts. All the data support that fact too.

464 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:56:13pm

re: #402 LudwigVanQuixote

ON that, you will have to blame me for taking a more traditional view in which both parties to adultery, male and female are stoned, and no distinction is made for whether or not the married one was male or female. However, I see your point there, so I will simply counter with the fact that married women cheat just as often as men do.

In the ancient world, things were much different, and polygamy was more accepted. Namely because men got killed more easily. In Judaism anyway, if a man was killed, his wife and children would go to the brother in law (if there was one) and she would be his wife, or to an inlaws family. They did this because of land and inheritance, to keep everything in the family.

In those days, because of land and inheritance, it was VERY important that a man knew who his children were. It would not be good for a woman to have multiple husbands because they wouldn’t know the father of the children. A man had to know his inheritance was being passed to his own blood.

465 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:56:14pm

re: #461 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m not sure I have one, except that men and women are equally horny, and equally responsible for their actions.

However, the cultural stakes on cheating for women have often been much, much higher.

At the most basic level, the reproductive system is hardly equally harsh on both sides. If a man cheats and it results in a child, it is possible for him to escape consequences. Women cannot do the same.

466 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:56:44pm

re: #460 LudwigVanQuixote

Look I am not trying to jump on you. However, the notion that men just can’t control their libidos as well as women, because biology makes them perpetually more horny, and therefore male infidelity is more tolerable is ludicrous.

If you did not make that argument I misread you and I apologize. If you did, you are just not looking at the facts. Just as many married women cheat in this society. That’s really all there is to it. The lack of cheating married women in other societies is more of a function of feminine repression than of feminine libido. Opportunity matters. Living in a society where a woman might be killed for even being suspected of infidelity matters.

IF she is from a place where husbands are as equally replaceable as wives, like ours, she has just as much reason to cheat, or not cheat as a man.

You want to keep arguing that women cheat as much as men that’s fine by me man, I’m not disagreeing with you. I do think males have a harder time controlling their libiodos (sorry, I can’t spell) than women but that doesn’t mean that women cheat less. I just believe the driver for cheating is different for women than it is for men. Emotion vs Sex Drive.

467 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:57:27pm

re: #232 Locker

Are you saying that taking vows seriously turns off your dick? You may behave, not speak up, keep the fact that your eyes are automatically drawn to every single female you see for an assessment to yourself but it’s still there.

Monkey see, monkey do. Human see, human want, human no necessarily do. Human see further than monkey see.

468 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:57:29pm

re: #461 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m not sure I have one, except that men and women are equally horny, and equally responsible for their actions.

However, the cultural stakes on cheating for women have often been much, much higher.

I have a very hard time believing that women are as horny as men. A very, very hard time.

469 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:57:31pm

re: #464 marjoriemoon

In the ancient world, things were much different, and polygamy was more accepted. Namely because men got killed more easily. In Judaism anyway, if a man was killed, his wife and children would go to the brother in law (if there was one) and she would be his wife, or to an inlaws family. They did this because of land and inheritance, to keep everything in the family.

In those days, because of land and inheritance, it was VERY important that a man knew who his children were. It would not be good for a woman to have multiple husbands because they wouldn’t know the father of the children. A man had to know his inheritance was being passed to his own blood.

A book I was reading recently said that polyandry wasn’t uncommon on the Arabian peninsula in Mohammed’s day. I don’t know how they handled inheritance issues.

470 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:58:15pm

re: #468 Locker

I have a very hard time believing that women are as horny as men. A very, very hard time.

You have never met my wife.

471 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:58:35pm

re: #464 marjoriemoon

In the ancient world, things were much different, and polygamy was more accepted. Namely because men got killed more easily. In Judaism anyway, if a man was killed, his wife and children would go to the brother in law (if there was one) and she would be his wife, or to an inlaws family. They did this because of land and inheritance, to keep everything in the family.

In those days, because of land and inheritance, it was VERY important that a man knew who his children were. It would not be good for a woman to have multiple husbands because they wouldn’t know the father of the children. A man had to know his inheritance was being passed to his own blood.

You missed my point entirely.

In Judaism, the person who cheats with the adulterer is just as much guilty of adultery, male or female. You are a man cheating with a married woman the penalty is the same for the married woman. If you are a woman cheating with a married man, the penalty is the same for the married man. In all cases, it is stoning. Even if I were not Jewish, I would agree with that view.

472 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:59:08pm

re: #471 LudwigVanQuixote

Except the stoning part, I hope…

473 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:59:12pm

re: #449 Fozzie Bear

Many, many women still are at home poppin out the chillins. Lets not pretend that we have as a society provided actually equal opportunities for the sexes in terms of philandering. Look at the laundry list of studies linked above. Women stray, alot. They aren’t purer of heart, or in practice.

I think a 5% disparity could easily be accounted for by looking at how many women are still virtually the chattel of men. The feminist movement wasn’t completely successful, just mostly so.

I didn’t mean to get trapped in this discussion really. If you read my beginning posts, I absolutely admitted to women cheating. Somewhere along the line it got to be a comparison and I didn’t really want to make that point.

The feminist movement was widely successful if you look at where we were even 50 years ago.

474 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:59:45pm

re: #465 Fozzie Bear

At the most basic level, the reproductive system is hardly equally harsh on both sides. If a man cheats and it results in a child, it is possible for him to escape consequences. Women cannot do the same.

Although the delightful book How To Do It: Guides To Good Living For Renaissance Italians does suggest a number of ways that traditional societies avoided trouble over this sort of thing, as, apparently, does Muslim legal tradition.

475 windsagio  Tue, May 18, 2010 1:59:49pm
476 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:00:11pm

re: #468 Locker

I have a very hard time believing that women are as horny as men. A very, very hard time.

Why?

477 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:00:20pm

re: #451 SanFranciscoZionist

So do an awful lot of women…

DAILY?? Multiple times daily?

478 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:00:25pm

re: #468 Locker

I have a very hard time believing that women are as horny as men. A very, very hard time.

Obviously you’ve never met…

Nevermind, just going to let that one go

479 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:00:25pm

re: #470 Fozzie Bear

You have never met my wife.

That’s a woman, not women. I’ve been with women who’s sex drive roughly equaled mine on one or maybe two occasions but just about every man I meet or talk to is just as horny, if not hornier than me.

You never met my wife either but you try crawling on top of her during a hot flash and good luck trying to find your beanbag in the next county.

480 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:00:25pm

re: #468 Locker

I have a very hard time believing that women are as horny as men. A very, very hard time.

We wish.

481 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:00:26pm

re: #468 Locker

I have a very hard time believing that women are as horny as men. A very, very hard time.

Then you aren’t dating the right women… Ok that was a joke, it wasn’t meant to give you or your wife shit. But it has been my experience that my partners (I am straight, so they have all been women) like to instigate about as much as I do.

482 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:00:39pm

re: #472 Fozzie Bear

Except the stoning part, I hope…

Yeah I am not so keen on that.

483 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:01:20pm

re: #471 LudwigVanQuixote

You missed my point entirely.

In Judaism, the person who cheats with the adulterer is just as much guilty of adultery, male or female. You are a man cheating with a married woman the penalty is the same for the married woman. If you are a woman cheating with a married man, the penalty is the same for the married man. In all cases, it is stoning. Even if I were not Jewish, I would agree with that view.

If the woman isn’t married, stoning isn’t an issue, neh?

484 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:02:02pm

re: #452 goddamnedfrank

There’s no court record of my ex-wife cheating on me, California is a no-fault divorce state, 48 States of the Union are. Court records will tell you nothing.

That’s true. Some do though. Infidelity as a cause.

485 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:02:09pm

re: #470 Fozzie Bear

You have never met my wife.

I might have.
///
(DUCKING!)

486 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:02:34pm

re: #476 SanFranciscoZionist

Why?

www.webmd.com


Birds do it, bees do it, and men do it any old time. But women will only do it if the candles are scented just right — and their partner has done the dishes first. A stereotype, sure, but is it true? Do men really have stronger sex drives than women?

Well, yes, they do. Study after study illustrates that men’s sex drives are not only stronger than women’s, but much more straightforward. The sources of women’s libidos, by contrast, are much more difficult to pin down.

Lots more in the article, lots of good information.

487 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:03:19pm

re: #473 marjoriemoon

Widely, yes, but not totally. My wife makes less at her job than the men there that do the exact same job. Is that illegal? Yes, sure it is. But as a practical matter, you can’t go suing all the time when things don’t work out. Especially when it is so hard to find a job. Once of her co-workers comes to work bruised, regularly, and refuses to discuss her home life. The poor girl lives in a state of fear. If she were to cheat, I imagine she might just be beaten to death. My wife has tried to help, but you can’t help someone who won’t admit the nature of the problem.

The feminist movement still has ALOT of work to do. Better than 50 years ago? Yes, absolutely. But we aren’t there yet, not even close.

488 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:04:48pm

re: #485 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I might have.
///
(DUCKING!)

HAHAHA nice.

*hurls shoe*

489 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:04:51pm

re: #477 marjoriemoon

DAILY?? Multiple times daily?

Uh, yes. And not all men do.

490 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:06:07pm

re: #486 Locker

Lots more in the article, lots of good information.

Sorry, but with so much cultural baggage hanging on this, I’m just not convinced.

491 Fozzie Bear  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:06:11pm

re: #477 marjoriemoon

DAILY?? Multiple times daily?

re: #470 Fozzie Bear

You have never met my wife.

492 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:06:34pm

re: #489 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh, yes. And not all men do.

If your perspective is such that, because of your personal experience, you think women are hornier and masturbate more than men then maybe I should seriously consider Zionism as a way of life.

SIGN ME UP!

493 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:06:55pm

re: #477 marjoriemoon

DAILY?? Multiple times daily?

You have never meant Miss S. She is real…

494 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:07:28pm

re: #483 SanFranciscoZionist

If the woman isn’t married, stoning isn’t an issue, neh?

If A married man boinks an unmarried woman, they are both stoned.

495 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:07:28pm

re: #485 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I might have.
///
(DUCKING!)

You are on a roll this afternoon…BRAVO!

496 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:07:30pm

re: #490 SanFranciscoZionist

Sorry, but with so much cultural baggage hanging on this, I’m just not convinced.

Well if that article didn’t convince you then I’d say you are unoconvinceable.

497 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:07:46pm

re: #487 Fozzie Bear

Widely, yes, but not totally. My wife makes less at her job than the men there that do the exact same job. Is that illegal? Yes, sure it is. But as a practical matter, you can’t go suing all the time when things don’t work out. Especially when it is so hard to find a job. Once of her co-workers comes to work bruised, regularly, and refuses to discuss her home life. The poor girl lives in a state of fear. If she were to cheat, I imagine she might just be beaten to death. My wife has tried to help, but you can’t help someone who won’t admit the nature of the problem.

The feminist movement still has ALOT of work to do. Better than 50 years ago? Yes, absolutely. But we aren’t there yet, not even close.

Oh for sure.

Maybe your wife could leave some pamphlets in her work area, discreetly. Abuse is a very humiliating thing to talk about with people. How awful.

498 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:08:40pm

re: #477 marjoriemoon

DAILY?? Multiple times daily?

It is as unique as the individual. It depends on the person.

499 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:08:43pm

re: #481 LudwigVanQuixote

Then you aren’t dating the right women… Ok that was a joke, it wasn’t meant to give you or your wife shit. But it has been my experience that my partners (I am straight, so they have all been women) like to instigate about as much as I do.

ThinkGeek t-shirt: “Particle Physics gives me a hadron”.

500 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:08:49pm

If you can find a study, then ok, but I know it would be difficult.

Most men masturbate daily. MOST NOT ALL.

Most women do not. MOST NOT ALL.

501 What, me worry?  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:09:46pm

I have to go… I’m sorry… Let’s to this again soon LOL

502 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:10:50pm

re: #501 marjoriemoon

I have to go… I’m sorry… Let’s to this again soon LOL

Later girl, thanks for the sex chat. ;)

503 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:12:26pm

re: #499 Decatur Deb

ThinkGeek t-shirt: “Particle Physics gives me a hadron”.

Lol… Physicists like puns.

Can you imagine the snickers that go on when talking about the super symmetric partner to the W - the wino?

The most unfortunately named Fock space?

The Killing field? That’s something to do with GR and is named after Dr. Killing.

Or worst of all, the Weiner measure.

504 CSKapper  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:26:11pm

My question is…why in the hell would she have sex with *him*?!

505 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:27:14pm

re: #290 wrenchwench

Been workin’ and away from my desk-but if I may say… 26 years and still thrilled with Dragon_Lady.

506 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:28:44pm

re: #505 Rightwingconspirator

Been workin’ and away from my desk-but if I may say… 26 years and still thrilled with Dragon_Lady.

Amateurs.

507 Political Atheist  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:36:47pm

re: #506 Decatur Deb

And you? 30+?

508 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:37:43pm

re: #507 Rightwingconspirator

And you? 30+?

44 in Sep.

509 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:39:50pm

re: #508 Decatur Deb

That’s great! My parents made 50.

510 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:41:47pm

re: #505 Rightwingconspirator

Been workin’ and away from my desk-but if I may say… 26 years and still thrilled with Dragon_Lady.

Only 12 for us and I’m still thrilled with Mrs Locker… and her best friend. ;)

511 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:45:54pm

re: #510 Locker

Only 12 for us and I’m still thrilled with Mrs Locker… and her best friend. ;)

If I’d known I was dealing with beginners, I wouldn’t have been so nice.

512 Locker  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:55:51pm

re: #511 Decatur Deb

If I’d known I was dealing with beginners, I wouldn’t have been so nice.

Ahah. When were you nice, I must have missed it?! I’d consider myself a beginner at 19 when I married my first wife while on a 3 day pass from Redstone Arsenal.

What a n00b.

513 Nimed  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:58:34pm

re: #500 marjoriemoon

If you can find a study, then ok, but I know it would be difficult.

Most men masturbate daily. MOST NOT ALL.

Most women do not. MOST NOT ALL.

:O
What the hell is going on here?
Good afternoon, lizards.

514 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 18, 2010 2:58:51pm

re: #512 Locker

Ahah. When were you nice, I must have missed it?! I’d consider myself a beginner at 19 when I married my first wife while on a 3 day pass from Redstone Arsenal.

What a n00b.

We waited until I got out—I wasn’t asking some damn 23 yr old 1LT for permission.

515 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 18, 2010 3:02:06pm

re: #513 Nimed

:O
What the hell is going on here?
Good afternoon, lizards.

You missed the fun. Everyone’s having a smoke one thread up.

516 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 18, 2010 3:07:31pm

Speaking of food—BBL.

517 Radical Rafe  Tue, May 18, 2010 3:37:06pm
As usual when Republicans are caught with their weenies where they shouldn’t be, he’s invoking God.

That’s hilarious. I nearly blew yogurt out my nose the when I read that line

518 im_gumby_damnit  Tue, May 18, 2010 5:03:10pm

An abstinence video. Snort.

519 b_sharp  Tue, May 18, 2010 5:07:23pm

re: #507 Rightwingconspirator

And you? 30+?

33

520 ClaudeMonet  Tue, May 18, 2010 6:34:37pm

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Kids are going to screw around. They’re kids. Teach them all the reasons not to, then teach them how to be safe when they do. Its the only sane course of action.

Sane? Did you just mention the word “sane”? There’s no sanity in politics!

521 ClaudeMonet  Tue, May 18, 2010 6:39:05pm

re: #120 waltersafety

Uh, can someone from Indiana explain to me what the freaking hell is with the congressman’s hair in that video?

I hope he didn’t pay money for that. Maybe bed-head from off screen?

(Yeah, I went there.)

He went to the same stylist as former Congressman Traficante. You know, the northeast Ohio guy with the tribble on top of his head. Crooked as they come, didn’t lose his seat on the Hill until he was finally convicted.

522 ClaudeMonet  Tue, May 18, 2010 6:47:54pm

re: #203 reloadingisnotahobby

If I ran into John Edwards I’d put him in a head lock and give him
“Nugie”! He’d run back to his limo with his breifcase on his head!
Not my hair ..Not my hair…!

I’d give him a real buzz cut, a reverse Mohawk.

John Edwards—Wow, talk about going from somebody to nobody in almost nothing flat.

523 ClaudeMonet  Tue, May 18, 2010 7:16:35pm

re: #239 LudwigVanQuixote

The fact that Eleanor refused her husbands bed for the legnth of their marriage over his affair with his chief secretary is well documented. I forget the woman’s name. Look it up.

The point is that these are all people you would vote for, and they all screwed around.

Lucy Mercer Rutherfurd was FDR’s mistress—

en.wikipedia.org


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