What Racism at the Tea Parties?

Wingnuts • Views: 4,893

Mark Williams, talk radio host and chairman of one of the largest tea party groups, Tea Party Express, was previously featured at LGF when he went on CNN and called Barack Obama an “Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug.”

That was right after he said that there were no racists at the tea party protests. Which is a perfect illustration of the blinding cognitive dissonance that drives the racist mentality; they’ll deny their racism in one sentence, then spout hate speech in the next.

Mark Williams is at it again, with some stunningly bigoted statements about Muslims at his blog: Tea Party Leader: Allah Is ‘Monkey God’.

This kind of talk is everywhere on the right wing blogs, of course, but what makes this case a bit different is that Williams is a leader of the tea party movement.

But remember, there are no racists or bigots or extremists at the tea parties. Just patriots a-skeered of losin’ their liberty.

Jump to bottom

339 comments
1 euphgeek  Wed, May 19, 2010 9:47:25am

And they accuse others of playing the race card? It's not playing the race card to point out actual racism.

2 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 9:47:26am

Mark Williams is at it again, with some stunningly bigoted statements about Muslims at his blog: Tea Party Leader: Allah Is ‘Monkey God’


But, but, I joined this blog because it is an Anti-Muslim site. What gives?
///

3 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, May 19, 2010 9:51:16am

Hatriots

4 z_nihilist  Wed, May 19, 2010 9:53:22am

It's all over the place here in the Lone Star State. It seems to predominantly come from Christianists and Evangelicals who fear that big bad Islam is invading their land. They really can't see the difference between the extremists and their religion.

5 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 9:54:08am

From the linky:

But an activist for Tea Party Patriots didn't mince words. "This is hate speech and has no place in the tea party movement," he said.

I guess someone has a bit of common sense.

6 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 19, 2010 9:54:51am

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

From the linky:

But an activist for Tea Party Patriots didn't mince words. "This is hate speech and has no place in the tea party movement," he said.

I guess someone has a bit of common sense.

Don't point that out.

7 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, May 19, 2010 9:56:11am

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

Must be a RINO plant.

8 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 9:56:54am

re: #7 Bubblehead II

Must be a RINO plant.

No. A Dem plant acting like a RINO.
/

9 darthstar  Wed, May 19, 2010 9:57:53am

That's going to help them big time in the general election...not.

Racism at tea parties?
the answer is yes.

10 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, May 19, 2010 9:58:05am

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

From the linky:

But an activist for Tea Party Patriots didn't mince words. "This is hate speech and has no place in the tea party movement," he said.

I guess someone has a bit of common sense.

Yeah. But it appears they are from the other TP group - the Tea Party Patriots, vs. the TP Express. Whatever. This dude said it.

11 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 9:59:12am

re: #10 Stanley Sea

Yeah. But it appears they are from the other TP group - the Tea Party Patriots, vs. the TP Express. Whatever. This dude said it.

I never denied what he said.

12 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:00:59am

re: #8 Cannadian Club Akbar

It's all a conspiracy to discredit the Tea Party movement.

//

13 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:01:32am

re: #11 Cannadian Club Akbar

I know.

I just get so sick when I read this shit. No backtracking of any TPP ass reduces my indigestion.

14 euphgeek  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:01:40am

re: #12 Bubblehead II

Agent provocateur! Also.

15 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:01:48am

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm sure there are plenty of people in the Tea Party that are sick of the supposed 'leaders' being opportunistic assholes.

It's a double-edged sword; the Tea Party groups like to claim that they're all associated when it's useful to them-- i.e. to show off numbers-- but at the same time, they don't want to be responsible for each other's actions, statements, and positions.

There's also, I think, a realization creeping across the Tea Party people that they've been had, and that they're being exploited by the Dick Army types and the Paulian types.

16 dugmartsch  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:01:52am

The problem is that anything approaching this kind of crazy gets you unceremoniously booted from the Democratic party. Every time the Republicans want to go tit-for-crazy-tat its always current Republican leader with former Democratic member.

Republicans have been trying to redefine crazy for a long time to include whatever policies they disagree with. But that's not how it works. You aren't crazy because you think card check is a good idea, you're crazy because you think the president is a secret Muslim, or you'll go on TV and say blatantly racist things.

The problem of course is that everyone censors themselves in public. So if this is the kind of thing they'll say in public imagine what they say in private! Racists are terrifying, and so brazen in private conversation it takes me a minute to realize I'm not just missing the joke.

17 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:02:25am

re: #12 Bubblehead II

It's all a conspiracy to discredit the Tea Party movement.

//

No. A Tea Party guy is acting like a Democrat but is actually libertarian.
//My head hurts.

18 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:04:31am

re: #17 Cannadian Club Akbar

Pretzel logic does seem to have that effect.

19 MandyManners  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:04:47am

re: #16 dugmartsch

The Democrats booted Cindy Sheehan?

20 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:05:07am

I have said it before and I'll say it again. I went to the first tea Party. 1 Kook. This was a good idea that was hijacked, IMO.

21 z_nihilist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:05:31am

re: #16 dugmartsch


The problem of course is that everyone censors themselves in public. So if this is the kind of thing they'll say in public imagine what they say in private! Racists are terrifying, and so brazen in private conversation it takes me a minute to realize I'm not just missing the joke.

That's what e-mail is for. Anonymous racism, i.e. "I didn't write it I just forwarded it to a few people."

22 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:06:31am

re: #19 MandyManners

The Democrats booted Cindy Sheehan?

Cindy Sheehan never held any sort of office or position, and has never succeeded in a Democratic primary.

So she didn't even get far enough along to get booted.

23 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:07:21am

Sheesh! Now we have a wingnut blogger so eaten up with ODS that he uncritically repeats Taliban propaganda:
Drones in Pakistan Have Only Killed 30 Al-Queda Members

This morning I came across an article with chart from the website PakistanBodyCount.org. The chart, seen above, shows how many more civilians have been injured or killed using drones in Pakistan.

This got me thinking. Wasn’t this the strategy that Joey Biden was urging the President to use? Thank God we didn’t stick with that plan and use MORE drones.

One of the main talking points the Left has used to argue against escalation (a.k.a the amount of troops we need to win a war) is that to many civilians are dying. Well if our esteemed Vice President got his way a lot more would be dead right now.

There is simply no replacing boots on the ground when it comes to war. Drones can only do so much and using this strategy would have been essentially giving up all the gains we had already made.

Joey Biden needs to answer for this. I want to know what he thinks now.

Note that there are only two categories, "Al Qaeda members" (30 killed) and "civilians" (1281 killed). Apparently, non-AQ Taliban are counted as "civilians." Beyond that, we have commented many times on the prevalence of the magic number 30 as shorthand for (apparently) "more than 3, less than 500" in casualty reports from various sources.

24 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:07:26am

re: #22 Obdicut

heh. Always comes to this.

25 Olsonist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:08:36am

re: #19 MandyManners

Find me a mainstream Democratic politician who takes Cindy Sheehan seriously, or Shut The Fuck Up.

26 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:08:55am

re: #19 MandyManners

The Democrats booted Cindy Sheehan?

Cindy Sheehan was a Democrat?

27 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:10:30am

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

Cindy Sheehan was a Democrat?

Yep, but she left the party:

On May 26 and May 28, 2007, Sheehan officially left the Democratic Party after the Democratic-controlled Congress passed a bill authorizing the continued funding of the war in Iraq,[75] and submitted her resignation as the "face" of the American anti-war movement via two messages posted to Daily Kos, stating that she wanted to go home and be a mother to her surviving children, and concluding her letters with the words

The Democrats weren't anti-war enough for her, so she left.

28 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:10:57am

re: #20 Cannadian Club Akbar

I have said it before and I'll say it again. I went to the first tea Party. 1 Kook. This was a good idea that was hijacked, IMO.

I hate to tell you this bro, but that's what the Paulbots have been saying for the last year or so. They were the ones who started the Tea Party thing around '06-'07 or so.

29 MandyManners  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:11:13am

re: #22 Obdicut

Cindy Sheehan never held any sort of office or position, and has never succeeded in a Democratic primary.

So she didn't even get far enough along to get booted.

Mark Williams is in office?

30 MandyManners  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:11:45am

re: #25 Olsonist

Find me a mainstream Democratic politician who takes Cindy Sheehan seriously, or Shut The Fuck Up.

My, aren't you special.

31 MandyManners  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:12:02am

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

Cindy Sheehan was a Democrat?

Yep.

32 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:12:13am

re: #28 Slumbering Behemoth

I hate to tell you this bro, but that's what the Paulbots have been saying for the last year or so. They were the ones who started the Tea Party thing around '06-'07 or so.

Not the official ones.

33 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:12:25am

Huffington Post has a good article that sheds some more light on Mark Williams:

Tea Party Hates Tea Party Leader

SNIP

Williams is chairman of Tea Party Express, a leading organization in the Tea Party movement....other Tea Party groups consider the Express an Astroturf organzation, implying that it has corporate backers and lacks grass-roots support, it has organized three successful cross-country bus tours to oppose the policies of the Obama administration.

These tours garnered heavy media attention from Fox News and, eventually, CNN, and its most recent tour featured two appearances by Sarah Palin, one of which was dubbed the Conservative Woodstock. Sounds good. So what's the problem?

SNIP

Williams has referred to President Obama as a Nazi, a half-white racist, a half-black racist and an Indonesian Muslim turned welfare fraud. In turn, much of the Tea Party movement has referred to Williams as a racist, a bigot, amoral, lacking any semblance of a conscience, deceitful, selfish, conniving, the Michael Steele of the Tea Party and, perhaps worst of all, a liberal.

SNIP

"After he got himself fired for going on the air drunk, he apparently got tired of bouncing from station to station while guys who sold out to the Rush Limbaugh clone theory of talk radio were staying put in relatively stable jobs," said Grayson.

SNIP

34 dugmartsch  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:12:41am

re: #19 MandyManners

The Democrats booted Cindy Sheehan?

You're just proving my point.

35 Walter L. Newton  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:13:11am

re: #25 Olsonist

Find me a mainstream Democratic politician who takes Cindy Sheehan seriously, or Shut The Fuck Up.

Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney in More Photos from Berkeley

[Link: www.indybay.org...]

36 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:13:37am

This just in...

According to a FOX news "Breaking news report" on the air just now Arizona has threatened to stop it's electrical sales to Los Angeles unless L.A. rescinds it's boycott of Arizona. Arizona provides about a quarter of L.A.'s power currently...

Damn, it seems that idealism comes face to face with practicality once again, I wonder which will win?

/

37 Daniel Ballard  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:14:09am

Who thinks Rand will win the general election?
Not me.

38 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:14:22am

re: #35 Walter L. Newton

Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney in More Photos from Berkeley

[Link: www.indybay.org...]

Cynthia is Hot!!!
//I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

39 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:14:30am

Tea Party Express: GOP Astroturf Group?

GOP operatives crash the tea party

Just days after the first widespread tea party demonstrators hit the streets a year ago Thursday, Joe Wierzbicki, a Republican political consultant with the Sacramento firm Russo Marsh + Rogers, made a proposal to his colleagues that he said could “give a boost to our PAC and position us as a growing force/leading force as the 2010 elections come into focus.”

The proposal, obtained by POLITICO, was for a nationwide tea party bus tour, to be called the Tea Party Express, which over the past seven months has become among the most identifiable brands of the tea party movement. Buses emblazoned with the Tea Party Express logo have brought speakers and entertainers to rallies in dozens of small towns and big cities, including one in Boston on Wednesday that will feature former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

Aided by campaign-style advance work and event planning, slick ads cut by Russo Marsh, impressive crowds and a savvy media operation, the political action committee run by Wierzbicki, Russo Marsh founder Sal Russo and a handful of other Republican operatives has also emerged as among the prolific fundraising vehicles under the tea party banner. Known as Our Country Deserves Better when it was founded during the 2008 election as a vehicle to oppose Barack Obama’s campaign for president, the PAC saw its fundraising more than quadruple after it took the Tea Party Express public in July, raising nearly $2.7 million in roughly the following six months, compared with less than $600,000 in the preceding six months, according to Federal Election Commission filings.

Its fundraising success has made the PAC — which formally filed with the FEC in October to change its name to “Our Country Deserves Better PAC–TeaPartyExpress.org” — a power player in the tea party and beyond, airing hundreds of thousands of dollars in ads supporting Republican campaigns such as Scott Brown’s successful special election for Senate in Massachusetts and blasting Democratic ones, such as Senate Majority Leader Reid’s reelection bid in Nevada.

...

So we see that Tea Party Express is really filing as Our Country Deserves Better PAC.

Here are the FEC filings...

[Link: query.nictusa.com...]

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:15:18am

re: #35 Walter L. Newton

Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney in More Photos from Berkeley

[Link: www.indybay.org...]

OK, we get it. Cindy Sheehan was a major figure in Democratic politics for years, high influential, and therefore the Tea Party Patriots (TM) cannot be held responsible for the filth that comes out of their mouths.

Super.

Now, what's the most racist thing Cindy Sheehan ever said?

41 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:15:21am

re: #29 MandyManners

Mark Williams is in office?

He's the head of the Tea Party Express, as the article says.

I'm really not sure what your point is here, Mandy. Could you explain?

42 zora  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:15:31am

re: #37 Rightwingconspirator

i certainly hope not. his brand of crazy may be brought to light by then.

43 MandyManners  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:15:37am

Gotta' go clean up puke and head to the doctor.

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:15:51am

re: #35 Walter L. Newton

Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney in More Photos from Berkeley

[Link: www.indybay.org...]

BTW, we did actually boot McKinney.

45 Renaissance_Man  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:15:51am

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

Cindy Sheehan was a Democrat?

You need to consider the logical evidence.

1. Weather Underground.
2. Jeremiah Wright.
3. Democrats were the pro-slavery party.
4. Robert Byrd.
5. A liberal is someone who rejects logical and biblical standards for self-centred reasons.
6. Socialism.

Conclusion: Tea Partiers may say some crazy things. But they hate Democrats and liberals, which means, deep down, they must be right.


Also, Hitler.

46 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:15:56am

re: #32 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not the official ones.

Not the official ones?

/that's four links. there's more.

47 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:16:52am

Our Country Deserves Better = Tea Party Express.

Let's have a look at their leaders:

Board and Staff %P% ourcountrydeservesbetter.com

Hon. Howard Kaloogian, Chairman

The Honorable Howard Kaloogian (Republican-California, 1994-2000) serves as Chairman of the Our Country Deserves Better PAC. A proud conservative, Kaloogian served as Assistant Republican Leader in the California State Assembly during his six-year term in office. Kaloogian has been a leader in numerous conservative causes. In 2003 he launched the historic Recall Gray Davis Committee, which helped recall Democratic Governor Gray Davis – the first recall of a statewide official in California history. Kaloogian made countless national media appearances advocating on behalf of the recall effort, such as this appearance on MSNBC’s Buchanan & Press.

Sal Russo, Chief Strategist

Sal Russo got his start in politics by working as a Special Assistant to RonaldReagan. Mr. Russo has spent over 30 years in the field of political consulting and public affairs. He has been a senior advisor to several Republican presidential campaigns.

A renowned consultant and strategist, Mr. Russo’s expertise extends to every aspect of the profession. Russo’s early conservative influence can be traced back to Barry Goldwater, who inspired Russo to become active in political causes while in college. Soon thereafter he met Reagan and his life was forever changed. Mr. Russo went on to become a leader in Republican campaigns at the state and national level, and helped freedom-loving people in campaigns around the world. He helped Violetta Chamorro win her election victory in Nicaragua.

Mark Williams, Vice Chairman

Mark Williams is a veteran journalist and conservative radio talk show host who has been covering social, political and lifestyle issues for more than 25 years. He has won numerous awards for his work over the years. In 2005 Williams won the Associated Press “Best Special Program” award for his live broadcasts from Iraq as part of the “Voices of Soldiers” truth tour. “Voices of Soldiers” featured the troops themselves taking unscreened calls from Mark’s audience, and freely speaking their minds about their missions in the War on Terror.

48 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:18:18am

re: #46 Slumbering Behemoth

Not the official ones?

/that's four links. there's more.

Not the one I was at. There was one Infowar dude there handing out fliers.

49 dugmartsch  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:18:40am

re: #37 Rightwingconspirator

Who thinks Rand will win the general election?
Not me.

I like it when Republican's get handed a wave election on a silver platter and manage somehow to still fuck it up. Seven special elections in the house, seven losses. Only Mass in the Senate and if the Democrats had run a fern rather than "i'm not much of a campaigner" coakely, it stays blue.

The people who get ushered in during wave elections are centrist outsiders. The Republicans seem to want to run either centrist insiders or rabidly reactionary outsiders. That is not the strategy to win an election, or to form much of a governing mandate if they eek out a majority.

That's why Sestak has a good shot in PA and Paul tuned a slam dunk into a toss up in KY.

50 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:19:22am

[Link: query.nictusa.com...]

Presented by the Federal Election Commission
Committee ID: C00454074

OUR COUNTRY DESERVES BETTER PAC - TEAPARTYEXPRESS.ORG

30151 Tomas
RnchoStaMargarita, CA 92688

Treasurer Name: Presley, Betty
Committee Designation: U (UNAUTHORIZED)
Committee Type: QUALIFIED NON-PARTY

Betty Presley, Treasurer

Few individuals have earned the respect and acclaim for their work with Republican political campaigns as Betty Presley.

Ms. Presley is routinely acknowledged by the media for her service as a campaign treasurer for Republican organizations. Republican political consultants have heaped accolades on Ms. Presley’s professionalism, proclaiming that “Betty Presley’s got your back.” One conservative talk radio host described Presley as, “A woman who’s name is very well known in political circles.” Ms. Presley has an unequaled track record of experience working for Republican campaigns at the local, state, and federal levels.

51 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:19:42am

Any questions?

52 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:20:41am

re: #51 Gus 802

Any questions?

What is the fastest animal on earth?

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:20:43am

re: #41 Obdicut

He's the head of the Tea Party Express, as the article says.

I'm really not sure what your point is here, Mandy. Could you explain?

And the Tea Party Express is directly linked to the GOP. If I were a Republican, I would want this guy hauled over the coals as publicly as possible.

54 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:20:51am

re: #48 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sorry brother. It's been well documented here that the Tea Party movement began back in '06-'07 as a Ron Paul/Libertarian movement. If it's been hijacked, it's been hijacked from them.

55 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:21:30am

re: #52 Cannadian Club Akbar

What is the fastest animal on earth?

Cheetah!

Unless of course you consider a Peregrine Falcon in a dive.

56 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:21:41am

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

And the Tea Party Express is directly linked to the GOP. If I were a Republican, I would want this guy hauled over the coals as publicly as possible.

I want to see some photos of this guy and the GOP leaders.

57 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:21:49am

re: #54 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry brother. It's been well documented here that the Tea Party movement began back in '06-'07 as a Ron Paul/Libertarian movement. If it's been hijacked, it's been hijacked from them.

I didn't hear about it until the CNBC guy went off.

58 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:22:11am

re: #57 Cannadian Club Akbar

I didn't hear about it until the CNBC guy went off.

And?

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:22:16am

re: #51 Gus 802

Any questions?

May an egg laid on the Sabbath be eaten on the Sabbath?

60 Renaissance_Man  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:22:47am

re: #51 Gus 802

Any questions?

Why is the ocean near the shore?

61 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:22:56am

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

May an egg laid on the Sabbath be eaten on the Sabbath?

By me? Sure!

/:p

62 theheat  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:22:56am

re: #52 Cannadian Club Akbar

A Jack Russell terrier being chased by a cheetah.

63 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:23:10am

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #60 Renaissance_Man

No more questions!

:)

64 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:23:12am

re: #52 Cannadian Club Akbar

What is the fastest animal on earth?

The Ethiopian chicken

65 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:23:31am

re: #58 Slumbering Behemoth

And?

And, we were against spending. That's about it.

66 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:24:05am

re: #52 Cannadian Club Akbar

What is the fastest animal on earth?

Some say the fastest creature on earth is the cheetah,
Others nominate a duenna getting between a senor and a senorita.

Odgen Nash, ladies and gentlemen

67 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:25:10am

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

Some say the fastest creature on earth is the cheetah,
Others nominate a duenna getting between a senor and a senorita.

Odgen Nash, ladies and gentlemen

I've never seen a purple cow.

68 sagehen  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:25:41am

re: #35 Walter L. Newton

Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney in More Photos from Berkeley

[Link: www.indybay.org...]


Cynthia McKinney is such a joke to Dems that they primaried her, replacing her with the guy who worries that Guam may capsize if too many people line up on one side.

69 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:25:46am

re: #65 Cannadian Club Akbar

What you're saying does not change the fact that the movement started as part of the Ron Paul rEVOLution long before folks like you got involved.

70 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:26:05am

re: #67 Mad Al-Jaffee

I've never seen a purple cow.

There is the Purple Cow (or clam) in Sarasota.

71 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:26:31am

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

The word "duenna" is underused, and it's replacement "Cock-blocker extraordinaire" doesn't have the same zing.

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:26:36am

re: #68 sagehen

Cynthia McKinney is such a joke to Dems that they primaried her, replacing her with the guy who worries that Guam may capsize if too many people line up on one side.

There's something about that seat...

73 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:26:57am

re: #70 Cannadian Club Akbar

There is the Purple Cow (or clam) in Sarasota.

There's a bar called The Bearded Clam in Ocean City, MD.

74 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:27:09am

re: #69 Slumbering Behemoth

What you're saying does not change the fact that the movement started as part of the Ron Paul rEVOLution long before folks like you got involved.

I knew of no movement before the CNBC guy.

75 tigger2005  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:27:38am

Conservative columnist Bobby Eberle who writes for GOPUSA Eagle or something like that was talking in a recent column about how "refreshing" it is to throw political correctness to the winds. He was asking "Why can't we call them Orientals? Why is it OK to say someone is from Asia, but not from the Orient?"

Well, because, Bobby, the word "Oriental" used to go hand in hand with negative portrayals of (Primarily Chinese and Japanese) people as either wicked, sinister and inscrutable, or as buck-toothed, near-sighted, blabbering idiots.

We're seeing people unleash their inner insensitive bigot under the guise of "abandoning the strictures of political correctness."

76 sagehen  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:27:50am

re: #36 ausador

This just in...

According to a FOX news "Breaking news report" on the air just now Arizona has threatened to stop it's electrical sales to Los Angeles unless L.A. rescinds it's boycott of Arizona. Arizona provides about a quarter of L.A.'s power currently...

Damn, it seems that idealism comes face to face with practicality once again, I wonder which will win?

/

oh sure, some privately owned Arizona utility is just going to let all that electricity dissipate into the air rather than sell it. To make a political statement.

Or maybe they're thinking they can stuff it into FedEx boxes, and ship it to New Jersey instead.

77 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:29:02am

re: #74 Cannadian Club Akbar

I knew of no movement before the CNBC guy.

Well, I gave you plenty of links, so now you know. It was a Paulbot movement from the start. And look at it now. Still heavily Paulbot. Go figure.

78 sagehen  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:29:22am

re: #45 Renaissance_Man

You need to consider the logical evidence.

1. Weather Underground.
2. Jeremiah Wright.
3. Democrats were the pro-slavery party.
4. Robert Byrd.
5. A liberal is someone who rejects logical and biblical standards for self-centred reasons.
6. Socialism.

Conclusion: Tea Partiers may say some crazy things. But they hate Democrats and liberals, which means, deep down, they must be right.

Also, Hitler.

And the Clenis.

79 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:30:07am

re: #76 sagehen

oh sure, some privately owned Arizona utility is just going to let all that electricity dissipate into the air rather than sell it. To make a political statement.

Or maybe they're thinking they can stuff it into FedEx boxes, and ship it to New Jersey instead.

Yea we talked about that a bit one thread up. The threats the letter sender from Arizona is making don't seem to be enforceable as he doesn't have any decision making power in that area.

80 darthstar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:30:16am

re: #49 dugmartsch

I like it when Republican's get handed a wave election on a silver platter and manage somehow to still fuck it up. Seven special elections in the house, seven losses. Only Mass in the Senate and if the Democrats had run a fern rather than "i'm not much of a campaigner" coakely, it stays blue.

Yep...they're starting to act like the Democrats normally do...stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.

81 zora  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:30:32am

re: #74 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ron Paul Tea Party 07

82 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:30:35am

re: #77 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, I gave you plenty of links, so now you know. It was a Paulbot movement from the start. And look at it now. Still heavily Paulbot. Go figure.

And if you look at my comment history here, you'll see me making fun of the Paulians. We good.

83 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:30:52am

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

May an egg laid on the Sabbath be eaten on the Sabbath?

Depends.

"Thus, if a hen had laid on the Sabbath, the egg was forbidden, because, evidently, it could not have been destined on a weekday for eating, since it was not yet laid, and did not exist; while if the hen had been kept, not for laying but for fattening, the egg might be eaten as forming a part of the hen that had fallen off!"

84 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:31:34am

re: #75 tigger2005

I've heard the same thing except from people who want to be free to use the "n" word.

I used it the other day, and got called a racist.

Don't know what the big deal is about saying "NASCAR"

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:31:39am

re: #75 tigger2005

Conservative columnist Bobby Eberle who writes for GOPUSA Eagle or something like that was talking in a recent column about how "refreshing" it is to throw political correctness to the winds. He was asking "Why can't we call them Orientals? Why is it OK to say someone is from Asia, but not from the Orient?"

Well, because, Bobby, the word "Oriental" used to go hand in hand with negative portrayals of (Primarily Chinese and Japanese) people as either wicked, sinister and inscrutable, or as buck-toothed, near-sighted, blabbering idiots.

We're seeing people unleash their inner insensitive bigot under the guise of "abandoning the strictures of political correctness."

Do people really feel that repressed by the standards of basic politeness and modern language usage? Do people really go through the day feeling that they would be happier if they were allowed to refer to Bob as 'the Oriental guy in accounting', rather than 'the Asian guy in accounting'?

86 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:31:41am

re: #16 dugmartsch

The problem is that anything approaching this kind of crazy gets you unceremoniously booted from the Democratic party. Every time the Republicans want to go tit-for-crazy-tat its always current Republican leader with former Democratic member.

Republicans have been trying to redefine crazy for a long time to include whatever policies they disagree with. But that's not how it works. You aren't crazy because you think card check is a good idea, you're crazy because you think the president is a secret Muslim, or you'll go on TV and say blatantly racist things.

The problem of course is that everyone censors themselves in public. So if this is the kind of thing they'll say in public imagine what they say in private! Racists are terrifying, and so brazen in private conversation it takes me a minute to realize I'm not just missing the joke.

re: #19 MandyManners

The Democrats booted Cindy Sheehan?

Way to prove the point, Mandy. (Emphasis mine)

87 sagehen  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:31:43am

re: #49 dugmartsch

I like it when Republican's get handed a wave election on a silver platter and manage somehow to still fuck it up. Seven special elections in the house, seven losses. Only Mass in the Senate and if the Democrats had run a fern rather than "i'm not much of a campaigner" coakely, it stays blue.

The people who get ushered in during wave elections are centrist outsiders. The Republicans seem to want to run either centrist insiders or rabidly reactionary outsiders. That is not the strategy to win an election, or to form much of a governing mandate if they eek out a majority.

That's why Sestak has a good shot in PA and Paul tuned a slam dunk into a toss up in KY.

And an independent ex-Republican looks likely to win Florida.

88 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:31:54am

re: #75 tigger2005

Conservative columnist Bobby Eberle who writes for GOPUSA Eagle or something like that was talking in a recent column about how "refreshing" it is to throw political correctness to the winds. He was asking "Why can't we call them Orientals? Why is it OK to say someone is from Asia, but not from the Orient?"

Well, because, Bobby, the word "Oriental" used to go hand in hand with negative portrayals of (Primarily Chinese and Japanese) people as either wicked, sinister and inscrutable, or as buck-toothed, near-sighted, blabbering idiots.

We're seeing people unleash their inner insensitive bigot under the guise of "abandoning the strictures of political correctness."

You can call them Orientals all you want but why act like your free speech is being repressed when it's other peoples free speech, regarding your word choice, that restricts and scares you. Weird.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:32:24am

re: #78 sagehen

And the Clenis.

What IS the Clenis?

90 theheat  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:32:36am

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

Since many of these same people don't bother to turn off the ALL CAPS key, I'd have to say yes.

91 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:32:50am

re: #87 sagehen

And an independent ex-Republican looks likely to win Florida.

Uh. No.

92 sagehen  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:32:57am

re: #52 Cannadian Club Akbar

What is the fastest animal on earth?

A dog in the backseat of a Ferrari.

93 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:32:58am

re: #79 Locker

Yea we talked about that a bit one thread up. The threats the letter sender from Arizona is making don't seem to be enforceable as he doesn't have any decision making power in that area.

And apparently the LA boycott is 'illegal', although naturally I can't get a simple explanation of why.

94 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:33:44am

re: #93 SanFranciscoZionist

And apparently the LA boycott is 'illegal', although naturally I can't get a simple explanation of why.

Yea I saw "someone" make that claim in the last thread and it seemed like total bullshit to me.

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:33:44am

re: #83 Bubblehead II

Depends.

"Thus, if a hen had laid on the Sabbath, the egg was forbidden, because, evidently, it could not have been destined on a weekday for eating, since it was not yet laid, and did not exist; while if the hen had been kept, not for laying but for fattening, the egg might be eaten as forming a part of the hen that had fallen off!"

I'll just let my husband eat it.

96 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:34:06am

re: #82 Cannadian Club Akbar

And if you look at my comment history here, you'll see me making fun of the Paulians. We good.

Oh, I hope you did not get the impression that I thought you were a Paulbot apologist. You've never struck me as such. I'm just giving you the facts that have been discovered about the current TP origins.

97 Sionainn  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:34:06am

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

Do people really feel that repressed by the standards of basic politeness and modern language usage? Do people really go through the day feeling that they would be happier if they were allowed to refer to Bob as 'the Oriental guy in accounting', rather than 'the Asian guy in accounting'?

Yes, I've run into plenty of them.

98 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:34:16am

re: #75 tigger2005

Conservative columnist Bobby Eberle who writes for GOPUSA Eagle or something like that was talking in a recent column about how "refreshing" it is to throw political correctness to the winds. He was asking "Why can't we call them Orientals? Why is it OK to say someone is from Asia, but not from the Orient?"

Well, because, Bobby, the word "Oriental" used to go hand in hand with negative portrayals of (Primarily Chinese and Japanese) people as either wicked, sinister and inscrutable, or as buck-toothed, near-sighted, blabbering idiots.

We're seeing people unleash their inner insensitive bigot under the guise of "abandoning the strictures of political correctness."

The Orient includes Persia (Iran) and Egypt. I'm pretty sure that Mr. Eberle does not understand that distinction. It's OK to use the word Orient but saying Oriental is to be avoided and is also considered and outdated and archaic word.

I think this has been discussed before at LGF and there are some differences within particular countries such as the UK where Oriental is not considered offensive.

99 Renaissance_Man  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:34:21am

re: #80 darthstar

Yep...they're starting to act like the Democrats normally do...stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.

To be fair, I don't blame this wave of Tea Party cultish insanity on Republicans. They are swept up in it and forced to ride on the wave in order to get any votes at all. Were they in charge of their own message, I have no doubt their platform would be different and less crazy.

Unfortunately, they are not. They are slaves to a Conservative cult media that doesn't have the best interests of their party, or the nation, at heart. In some ways, it's almost preferable for this cult media to have a hardcore, perpetually angry minority of about 30% that is slavishly devoted to them, than have a more nuanced, reasonable majority that has a greater capacity for independent thought.

100 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:34:28am

re: #87 sagehen

And an independent ex-Republican looks likely to win Florida.

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]

I hate polls.

101 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:34:48am

re: #92 sagehen

A dog in the backseat of a Ferrari.

The driving hat, driving glasses and driving dog bone completely the ensemble.

102 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:35:11am

re: #96 Slumbering Behemoth

Na, just reporting what I saw.

103 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:35:31am

re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist

What IS the Clenis?

Pres. Clinton?

104 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:35:45am

re: #92 sagehen

A dog in the backseat of a Ferrari.

But will there ever be a boy who can swim faster than a shark?

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:36:17am

re: #94 Locker

Yea I saw "someone" make that claim in the last thread and it seemed like total bullshit to me.

I'm open to learning. But when I ask why it's illegal, and the answer starts with 'Well, excuse me,", I start to wonder if there's gonna be an answer to my question.

106 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:36:25am

re: #104 Mad Al-Jaffee

But will there ever be a boy who can swim faster than a shark?

Sea Man & Swallow can do it!

107 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:36:27am

re: #93 SanFranciscoZionist

And apparently the LA boycott is 'illegal', although naturally I can't get a simple explanation of why.

I think a power utility commissioner writing a letter to the mayor of Los Angeles threatening to cut of the power should be considered dubious at the least. I'm sure you heard about that this morning.

108 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:36:35am

re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist

I'll just let my husband eat it.

It strikes me that for every restriction placed upon our behavior by religious dictate we will find some convoluted way to reason our way out of it.

109 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:36:41am

re: #99 Renaissance_Man

I'd suggest calling it a reactionary cult instead of a conservative one. It's really not very conservative; it shows a stark divide that has been present amongst people who call themselves 'conservative', between the actual conservatives and the reactionaries.

The probem is that the GOP, and the associated media, have been promoting being reactionary as opposed (literally) to being conservative.

110 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:36:57am

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

Do people really feel that repressed by the standards of basic politeness and modern language usage? Do people really go through the day feeling that they would be happier if they were allowed to refer to Bob as 'the Oriental guy in accounting', rather than 'the Asian guy in accounting'?

They're everywhere in Pennsyltucky. People can be very proud of their ignorance, and wear it like a badge of pride.

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:37:16am

re: #98 Gus 802

The Orient includes Persia (Iran) and Egypt. I'm pretty sure that Mr. Eberle does not understand that distinction. It's OK to use the word Orient but saying Oriental is to be avoided and is also considered and outdated and archaic word.

I think this has been discussed before at LGF and there are some differences within particular countries such as the UK where Oriental is not considered offensive.

Remember how people here used to get hysterical when Pakistani terror suspects were called "Asians" by the British press?

112 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:37:29am

re: #109 Obdicut

I'd suggest calling it a reactionary cult instead of a conservative one. It's really not very conservative; it shows a stark divide that has been present amongst people who call themselves 'conservative', between the actual conservatives and the reactionaries.

The probem is that the GOP, and the associated media, have been promoting being reactionary as opposed (literally) to being conservative.

I would guess that a lot of the tea partiers will go away when they go back to work.

113 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:37:39am

re: #102 Cannadian Club Akbar

Heh. You just reminded me of that old saying. Every group has a crazy person in it. Look around at your group. If you don't see a crazy person, you're it.

/but you said you saw one kook, so you're in the clear

114 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:38:04am

re: #112 PT Barnum

I would guess that a lot of the tea partiers will go away when they go back to work.

Or when the new season of Matlock is released on DVD.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:38:14am

re: #107 Gus 802

I think a power utility commissioner writing a letter to the mayor of Los Angeles threatening to cut of the power should be considered dubious at the least. I'm sure you heard about that this morning.

I think everyone should calm down in a major way.

116 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:38:28am

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

Remember how people here used to get hysterical when Pakistani terror suspects were called "Asians" by the British press?

But by that measure, Russians are Asians aren't they?

117 sagehen  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:38:29am

re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist

What IS the Clenis?

Clinton's penis.

118 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:38:47am

re: #113 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh.

119 theheat  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:38:48am

re: #99 Renaissance_Man

Had the Republicans collectively acted like adults since Obama's election, I would agree with you. With or without the the party, the GOP has gone off the rails. More like, jumping on the tea party bandwagon was the perfect fit. It's a symbiotic relationship, and hardly accidental.

120 AK-47%  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:38:54am

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

I think everyone should calm down in a major way.

As if Arizona could afford to lose that revenue. Heck, they just passed a sales-tax hike....

121 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:38:54am

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

Remember how people here used to get hysterical when Pakistani terror suspects were called "Asians" by the British press?

I don't remember that. But Pakistan is in Asia as is India.

And Africa is not a country. /

122 Sionainn  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:38:56am

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

I think everyone should calm down in a major way.

That'd be no fun. //

123 AK-47%  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:39:19am

re: #117 sagehen

Clinton's penis.


His name was "Willard".

124 theheat  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:39:38am

re: #119 theheat

PIMF - with or without the tea party...

125 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:39:42am

re: #75 tigger2005

Conservative columnist Bobby Eberle who writes for GOPUSA Eagle or something like that was talking in a recent column about how "refreshing" it is to throw political correctness to the winds. He was asking "Why can't we call them Orientals? Why is it OK to say someone is from Asia, but not from the Orient?"

Well, because, Bobby, the word "Oriental" used to go hand in hand with negative portrayals of (Primarily Chinese and Japanese) people as either wicked, sinister and inscrutable, or as buck-toothed, near-sighted, blabbering idiots.

We're seeing people unleash their inner insensitive bigot under the guise of "abandoning the strictures of political correctness."

I was not aware that the usage "Oriental" has become unacceptable. Is it only the use as a noun that is objectionable, or is the adjective also verboten?

126 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:39:51am

re: #114 Locker

Or when the new season of Matlock is released on DVD.

old, unemployed, and stupid is no way to go through life.

127 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:40:05am

re: #78 sagehen

And the Clenis.

True. Tea baggers hate a clean penis. WTF is a good tea bagging without an earthy, fragrant bouquet.

128 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:40:34am

re: #127 Locker

True. Tea baggers hate a clean penis. WTF is a good tea bagging without an earthy, fragrant bouquet.

Ewww.

129 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:41:23am

re: #128 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ewww.

Victory is mine!

130 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:41:25am

re: #127 Locker

True. Tea baggers hate a clean penis. WTF is a good tea bagging without an earthy, fragrant bouquet.

Do you have personal experience in this area? I decided I had no curiousity about that after I had a colonoscopy and a gastroscopy the same day. Thank god they knocked me out for both.

131 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:41:45am

re: #127 Locker

True. Tea baggers hate a clean penis. WTF is a good tea bagging without an earthy, fragrant bouquet.

[Thwack!]

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:41:46am

re: #116 PT Barnum

But by that measure, Russians are Asians aren't they?

Brits refer to South Asians, Indians, Pakistanis, Nepalese, etc., as 'Asians'.

I assume they think Russians are Europeans, but who knows?

People here got upset about it because they saw it as the British press deliberately not saying the terror suspects were "MUSLIMSSSS!!!!"

133 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:41:47am

re: #120 ralphieboy

As if Arizona could afford to lose that revenue. Heck, they just passed a sales-tax hike...

Exactly. I (luckily) missed this story, but AZ is going to refuse money? No state is in the position to do that now. geeze.

134 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:42:18am

re: #130 PT Barnum

Do you have personal experience in this area? I decided I had no curiousity about that after I had a colonoscopy and a gastroscopy the same day. Thank god they knocked me out for both.

Yes, I definitely having personal experience in cleaning my penis. The scopies... not so much...

135 MrSilverDragon  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:42:21am

re: #127 Locker

True. Tea baggers hate a clean penis. WTF is a good tea bagging without an earthy, fragrant bouquet.

I don't want to know how you know this.

I... just don't.

136 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:42:26am

re: #125 Spare O'Lake

I was not aware that the usage "Oriental" has become unacceptable. Is it only the use as a noun that is objectionable, or is the adjective also verboten?

I think you can still say "the Orient" to refer to geography without offending, but apart from that, it has been coopted by racists, and thus, people who don't want to be associated with the racists have abandoned the word.

I find this to be one of the more peculiar aspects of racism / political correctness. I can think of dozens of descriptive terms that were considered completely neutral in tone when I was a kid that now, you just don't say anymore.

137 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:42:44am

I have to run. I hate it when a thread is fun and I have to go.:(

138 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:43:02am

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist

Brits refer to South Asians, Indians, Pakistanis, Nepalese, etc., as 'Asians'.

I assume they think Russians are Europeans, but who knows?

People here got upset about it because they saw it as the British press deliberately not saying the terror suspects were "MUSLIMSSS!!!"

Why don't we just refer to them as Religiously Motivated Violent Fanatics? Leave the nationality out of it.

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:43:20am

re: #125 Spare O'Lake

I was not aware that the usage "Oriental" has become unacceptable. Is it only the use as a noun that is objectionable, or is the adjective also verboten?

I think you can still refer to an Oriental rug without difficulty, but an Oriental country may cause people to look at you with some bafflement.

140 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:43:41am

re: #110 Fozzie Bear

They're everywhere in Pennsyltucky. People can be very proud of their ignorance, and wear it like a badge of pride.

True as I spent a large amount of time in PA but I think the preferred term is zipper head as opposed to Oriental. I'm not even joking here...

141 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:44:10am

re: #125 Spare O'Lake

I was not aware that the usage "Oriental" has become unacceptable. Is it only the use as a noun that is objectionable, or is the adjective also verboten?

You can use it to describe rugs, but that's about it.

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:44:17am

re: #133 Stanley Sea

Exactly. I (luckily) missed this story, but AZ is going to refuse money? No state is in the position to do that now. geeze.

They just got annoyed and started to throw threats around. Doubt they'll even think about following through.

143 ShaunP  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:44:34am

re: #125 Spare O'Lake

I was not aware that the usage "Oriental" has become unacceptable. Is it only the use as a noun that is objectionable, or is the adjective also verboten?

Lets just say that you should not go around calling people oriental...

[Link: encarta.msn.com...]

taboo term: a highly offensive term for somebody from East Asia ( dated )

144 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:44:42am

re: #141 marjoriemoon

You can use it to describe rugs, but that's about it.

Or a lamp.

145 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:45:13am

re: #138 PT Barnum

Why don't we just refer to them as Religiously Motivated Violent Fanatics? Leave the nationality out of it.

Usually it was some preliminary report--"Three Asian men from Finchley were taken into custody.."

Mocking and upset would ensue.

146 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:45:13am

re: #138 PT Barnum

Why don't we just refer to them as Religiously Motivated Violent Fanatics? Leave the nationality out of it.

Because that doesn't parse to a nice acronym. Still trying to figure out the words that would create WHACKJOB.

147 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:45:15am

re: #127 Locker

True. Tea baggers hate a clean penis. WTF is a good tea bagging without an earthy, fragrant bouquet.

ROFL After yesterday's conversation, I really don't want to know any more.

148 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:45:21am

re: #143 ShaunP

I'm feeling highly disoriented myself..

149 Nick Morgan  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:45:23am

re: #116 PT Barnum

But by that measure, Russians are Asians aren't they?

Actually, their culture is, in a way, Asian. They have been not quite European, not quite Asian: much of their architecture is Byzantine.

150 zora  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:45:41am

re: #125 Spare O'Lake

it is my understanding that the people are asian. things from asia are oriental. as in an oriental rug.

151 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:45:44am

re: #140 Locker

True as I spent a large amount of time in PA but I think the preferred term is zipper head as opposed to Oriental. I'm not even joking here...

Oh I think "oriental" is one of the more tame descriptors I've heard. I've been in places in PA where asians are simply referred to as "Charlie", without a hint of irony or humor. The degree of casual white nationalism here is astounding.

152 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:45:51am

re: #144 Gus 802

Or a lamp.

Or an Express.

153 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:45:54am

re: #140 Locker

Also, Dude; "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature. "Asian-American", please.

154 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:46:08am

re: #148 PT Barnum

I'm feeling highly disoriented myself..

Is this a sexual orientation problem?

///

155 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:46:42am

re: #151 Fozzie Bear

Oh I think "oriental" is one of the more tame descriptors I've heard. I've been in places in PA where asians are simply referred to as "Charlie", without a hint of irony or humor. The degree of casual white nationalism here is astounding.

Born Pittsburgh. Lower schooling, Bradford. College... IUP. You are in no way exaggerating.

156 Renaissance_Man  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:46:49am

re: #109 Obdicut

I'd suggest calling it a reactionary cult instead of a conservative one. It's really not very conservative; it shows a stark divide that has been present amongst people who call themselves 'conservative', between the actual conservatives and the reactionaries.

The probem is that the GOP, and the associated media, have been promoting being reactionary as opposed (literally) to being conservative.

Indeed, it's not conservative at all. Unfortunately, it has co-opted the word, and I think the face of a frothing Tea Partier shouting about a Communist in the White House is what most people will think of when they hear the word 'conservative', inaccurate as that may be.

It is similar, but not the same, to the way 'liberal' is now an epithet. The difference is that the freakish caricature of liberal that you find on Conservapedia and in the minds of the culties is such a cartoonish demonisation that the counterargument is a denial of definition. In other words, when someone says 'liberal' and means 'a self-centred hatemonger who rejects all things decent', everyone agrees that these characteristics are bad, but the reasonable response is that it's a caricature and liberals are not really like that. Even the most insane liberal isn't going to agree that he's a self-centred hatemonger who rejects all things decent.

Conversely, the association of 'conservative' with 'atavistic reactionary screaming about a socialist in the White House deliberately destroying the country' is not similarly a universally denounced caricature. Make this connotation to a member of the cult, and the response will be, 'What's wrong with that? It's true.'

157 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:47:33am

When I lived in Sioux City, we had a big todo about the local baseball team being called the Sioux City Siouxs. The local native american population got upset. I suggested they call them the Godless Savages just out of spite.

Instead they named them the Sioux City Explorers.

I think that wasn't politically correct enough. They should have been the
Sioux City Oppressors of Indigeonous Peoples.

158 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:47:36am

re: #153 Mad Al-Jaffee

Also, Dude; "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature. "Asian-American", please.

Yeah. I usually leave that to the cranky apartment maintenance guy that comes to unplug my toilet.

159 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:48:18am

re: #154 Gus 802

Is this a sexual orientation problem?

///

Your wife didn't think so..
///

160 elizajane  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:48:20am

According to the TPM story linked above, this Williams clown also posted at his website a picture of Allah with a swastika on his head.
What I want to know is, where's the fatwah? Why do they want to kill a British novelist and a Danish cartoonist but not a professional hate-monger? Where are their priorities?
Not that I think the man should be killed, mind you--but I honestly don't get why, when a person with actual political power does and says these things, they seem to be shrugged off by the lunatics on the other side.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:48:39am

re: #157 PT Barnum

When I lived in Sioux City, we had a big todo about the local baseball team being called the Sioux City Siouxs. The local native american population got upset. I suggested they call them the Godless Savages just out of spite.

Instead they named them the Sioux City Explorers.

I think that wasn't politically correct enough. They should have been the
Sioux City Oppressors of Indigeonous Peoples.

Envelope yourself, and the horse you oppressed by riding in on!

162 Olsonist  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:49:44am

Orient and orientalism are perfectly fine words. I think it comes down to intent. It always does. Ross Perot got into trouble at the NAACP convention for saying y'all. Personally I think he got jobbed on that one but politics is politics.

163 theheat  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:49:59am

re: #160 elizajane

Because it's easy to target and individual with an opinion, rather than stir up a bee's nest of Nazis, just aching to kick some ass.

164 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:50:30am

re: #162 Olsonist

Orient and orientalism are perfectly fine words. I think it comes down to intent. It always does. Ross Perot got into trouble at the NAACP convention for saying y'all. Personally I think he got jobbed on that one but politics is politics.

I thought he said you people..not y'all

165 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:51:49am

re: #164 PT Barnum

I thought he said you people..not y'all

July 11, 1992 in History
Event: President candidate Ross Perot at NAACP speech calls them "you people"

[Link: www.brainyhistory.com...]

166 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:52:53am

re: #164 PT Barnum

I thought he said you people..not y'all

"You people" never fails to get the speaker in trouble, no matter how innocent the intent.

167 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:53:49am

re: #165 Gus 802

July 11, 1992 in History
Event: President candidate Ross Perot at NAACP speech calls them "you people"

[Link: www.brainyhistory.com...]

Ahh, yes... billionaire populist H. Ross Perot. Pulled outta politics 'cause Republican operatives were plotting to disrupt his daughter's wedding, or something.

He was bat-guano whacky when bat-guano whacky wasn't cool.

168 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:54:12am

re: #163 theheat

Because it's easy to target and individual with an opinion, rather than stir up a bee's nest of Nazis, just aching to kick some ass.

Oh cage match. Jihadis v. neo-Nazis. I'm so there.

169 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:54:38am

re: #168 marjoriemoon

Oh cage match. Jihadis v. neo-Nazis. I'm so there.

Put it on pay per view and we could possibly retire some portion of the national debt.

170 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:55:21am

Re: "Oriental"

The word "Chinaman" is simply a transliteration of the Chinese term for a Chinese person, "China" (中國) and "man" or "person" (人).
It was originally used without offensive intent, and was similarly used until quite recently, but it became offensive by virtue of being the term of choice among anti-Chinese bigots in the 19th century and later.
Much the same has happened with such terms as "oriental," originally an inoffensive if rather vague term for "east of Europe." Again, its common usage in disparaging statements among racists has given it a strongly offensive character.

171 ArchangelMichael  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:55:24am

re: #166 Fozzie Bear

That's what happens when a language loses it's 2nd person plural pronoun. We also lost our 3rd person neutral but not inanimate object pronoun too which leads to all this "he or she" or worse "they" crap.

172 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:55:25am

re: #167 Guanxi88

Ahh, yes... billionaire populist H. Ross Perot. Pulled outta politics 'cause Republican operatives were plotting to disrupt his daughter's wedding, or something.

He was bat-guano whacky when bat-guano whacky wasn't cool.

Yeah, much like Steve Forbes the elevator didn't go to the top floor.

173 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:55:39am

FOX: Atheists Want Their Version of Religion Taught in Texas

Yeah, right. That's exactly what this whole flap is about. *sigh*

174 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:56:00am

re: #172 Gus 802

Yeah, much like Steve Forbes the elevator didn't go to the top floor.

Forbes always creeped me out. If you saw a guy matching his description hanging around a playground....

175 Soap_Man  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:56:22am

re: #170 Shiplord Kirel

Re: "Oriental"

The word "Chinaman" is simply a transliteration of the Chinese term for a Chinese person, "China" (中國) and "man" or "person" (人).
It was originally used without offensive intent, and was similarly used until quite recently, but it became offensive by virtue of being the term of choice among anti-Chinese bigots in the 19th century and later.
Much the same has happened with such terms as "oriental," originally an inoffensive if rather vague term for "east of Europe." Again, its common usage in disparaging statements among racists has given it a strongly offensive character.

Oriental is offensive now? I must have missed the memo.

176 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:57:03am

re: #175 Soap_Man

Oriental is offensive now? I must have missed the memo.

Sure did, gweilo.

177 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:57:50am

re: #173 Slumbering Behemoth

FOX: Atheists Want Their Version of Religion Taught in Texas

Yeah, right. That's exactly what this whole flap is about. *sigh*

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

That's thread worthy.

178 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:57:54am

re: #173 Slumbering Behemoth

FOX: Atheists Want Their Version of Religion Taught in Texas

Yeah, right. That's exactly what this whole flap is about. *sigh*

Um... isn't the "athiest version" pretty much what it taught in regular public school? Devoid of religious content?

179 ArchangelMichael  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:58:25am

re: #176 Guanxi88

Sure did, gweilo.

What about Celestial?

/

180 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:58:42am

re: #178 marjoriemoon

Um... isn't the "athiest version" pretty much what it taught in regular public school? Devoid of religious content?

I think it's called "secular".

181 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:59:00am

re: #179 ArchangelMichael

What about Celestial?

/

That one's still acceptable, is a bit esoteric.

182 ArchangelMichael  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:59:38am

re: #181 Guanxi88

That one's still acceptable, is a bit esoteric.

Never head it anywhere but on Deadwood.

183 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 10:59:53am

re: #180 Locker

I think it's called "secular".

Those poor atheists. They get left outa everything :(

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:00:03am

re: #178 marjoriemoon

Um... isn't the "athiest version" pretty much what it taught in regular public school? Devoid of religious content?

The California Social Studies standards address religions in detail, and entirely from the point of view of 'this is what this culture believed/believes'.

I think it works very well.

185 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:00:17am

re: #179 ArchangelMichael

What about Celestial?

/

(BTW, haven't seen that one outside of some late 19th century stuff. Good term, though.)

186 Soap_Man  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:00:33am

re: #176 Guanxi88

Sure did, gweilo.

I can't keep up anymore. Maybe somebody should establish a National Department of Annoyingly-Over-The-Top Political Correctness. They can write essays every month to update me on what is now offensive.

187 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:00:38am

re: #183 marjoriemoon

Those poor atheists. They get left outa everything :(

Bless their souls.

188 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:01:02am

re: #173 Slumbering Behemoth

FOX: Atheists Want Their Version of Religion Taught in Texas

Yeah, right. That's exactly what this whole flap is about. *sigh*

Clearly, the liberals have a stranglehold on the media. It blows my mind that I still see the "liberal media" descriptor thrown around like it somehow has some relation to reality. It's the conservative meme that won't die.

189 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:01:03am

re: #186 Soap_Man

I can't keep up anymore. Maybe somebody should establish a National Department of Annoyingly-Over-The-Top Political Correctness. They can write essays every month to update me on what is now offensive.

That's been out-sourced to the liberal arts departments of most of the larger universities.

190 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:01:31am

re: #178 marjoriemoon

Not allowing Creationists to shove religion down every child's throat in science class = Atheist plot to pervert America's youth. Also, communism.

/also, nazis.

191 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:01:35am

re: #93 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #94 Locker

Snark all you want.
My gut tells me it's illegal on constitutional grounds because a municipality's legal powers derive from the State and I doubt the power to boycott another State was ever delegated to LA by CA.
It's just a gut feeling and you can sit there and bitch and moan about how noone is giving you legal proof, but I would suggest instead that you do a little research yourselves.

192 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:01:53am

re: #184 SanFranciscoZionist

The California Social Studies standards address religions in detail, and entirely from the point of view of 'this is what this culture believed/believes'.

I think it works very well.

I guess I meant what Locker said. Public schools are secular. Not that religion isn't discussed at all, of course, as in comparative religion or specific religious ties to large groups of people.

193 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:02:14am

re: #179 ArchangelMichael

What about Celestial?

/

Just don't call a Chinese Korean or ask if he or she is Vietnamese, and you won't get any fights.

194 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:02:20am

re: #175 Soap_Man

Oriental is offensive now? I must have missed the memo.

If used to describe a person. It is vague enough to be a dismissive characterization in other contexts as well, ie "oriental country." In the context of art or certain terms of cultural reference with strong historical antecedents, "oriental rug" "oriental architecture," it is perfectly acceptable.
A better example might be the term "Asiatic," a reasonable and inoffensive term in and of itself, which is nevertheless largely proscribed today purely because of its extensive use by racists in the past.

195 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:02:40am

re: #191 Spare O'Lake

You forgot your sarc tags.

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:02:49am

re: #185 Guanxi88

(BTW, haven't seen that one outside of some late 19th century stuff. Good term, though.)

Prime for 'reclaiming', I should think.

197 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:02:53am

re: #194 Shiplord Kirel

If used to describe a person. It is vague enough to be a dismissive characterization in other contexts as well, ie "oriental country." In the context of art or certain terms of cultural reference with strong historical antecedents, "oriental rug" "oriental architecture," it is perfectly acceptable.
A better example might be the term "Asiatic," a reasonable and inoffensive term in and of itself, which is nevertheless largely proscribed today purely because of its extensive use by racists in the past.

"Yellow menace" is also more or less out these days.

198 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:03:02am

Bush's Education Secretary Paige opposes Texas' social studies curriculum revisions
By Dave Montgomery
The Fort Worth Star-Telegram

AUSTIN — Former Education Secretary Rod Paige on Wednesday expressed opposition to revised social studies curriculum standards being prepared for the state's 4.7 million public school students, urging members of the State Board of Education not to let personal ideology shape "what is taught to our children."

Paige, a former Houston school superintendent who directed the nation's education policies in President George W. Bush's administration, was one of more than 200 witnesses scheduled to testify at a hearing Wednesday as the 15-member board opened a three day meeting on the revised standards.

The board will consider amendments on Thursday and take a final vote on Friday...

That would be a no vote against McLeroy's standards from a former Bush administration official.

199 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:03:03am

re: #186 Soap_Man

It's pretty much common sense. To me, it's not PC, it's common courtesy.

200 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:03:24am

re: #190 Slumbering Behemoth

Not allowing Creationists to shove religion down every child's throat in science class = Atheist plot to pervert America's youth. Also, communism.

/also, nazis.

I sometimes wonder if all those creationists even graduated high school. Would be interesting to know their education.

201 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:03:27am

re: #191 Spare O'Lake

re: #94 Locker

Snark all you want.
My gut tells me it's illegal on constitutional grounds because a municipality's legal powers derive from the State and I doubt the power to boycott another State was ever delegated to LA by CA.
It's just a gut feeling and you can sit there and bitch and moan about how noone is giving you legal proof, but I would suggest instead that you do a little research yourselves.

I'm fairly certain the City of LA can do business with whoever it wants according to their own guidelines. The state "may" have a say about spending of money which the state provided to the city, say education dollars, but for standard contracts and purchasing they can boycott Jimmy Dean's if they feel like it and the State can't say "no".

202 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:04:10am

re: #188 Fozzie Bear

I am not terribly naive. All news media outlets are biased. Always have been. But sometimes it seems to me that FNC is angling for first prize in the bias contest. Do they still use the motto "Fair and Balanced"?

203 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:04:27am

re: #201 Locker

I don't know man. His gut is a pretty authoritative source. I'm going to cite my pancreas next time I want to make outrageous claims.

204 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:05:26am

re: #136 Fozzie Bear

I think you can still say "the Orient" to refer to geography without offending, but apart from that, it has been coopted by racists, and thus, people who don't want to be associated with the racists have abandoned the word.

I find this to be one of the more peculiar aspects of racism / political correctness. I can think of dozens of descriptive terms that were considered completely neutral in tone when I was a kid that now, you just don't say anymore.

In Toronto in particular, which has a huge Asian population, the word Oriental appears on literally hundreds of restaurant and business signs.

205 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:05:28am

re: #203 Fozzie Bear

I don't know man. His gut is a pretty authoritative source. I'm going to cite my pancreas next time I want to make outrageous claims.

I am Jack's pancreas.....

206 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:05:29am

re: #203 Fozzie Bear

I don't know man. His gut is a pretty authoritative source. I'm going to cite my pancreas next time I want to make outrageous claims.

Well I do make assessments about the logic of certain situations but my "authoritative source" is that I work for a CA state agency in the fiscal and account division so I do have some experience.

207 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:05:44am

re: #205 Guanxi88

I am Jack's pancreas...

I'm Jack's colon. I get cancer, I kill Jack.

208 ArchangelMichael  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:06:10am

re: #193 Guanxi88

Just don't call a Chinese Korean or ask if he or she is Vietnamese, and you won't get any fights.

HH: "So are you Chinese or Japanese?"
KS: "Laotian... from Laos"
HH: "So are you Chinese or Japanese?"

209 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:06:50am

re: #191 Spare O'Lake

Hughes v. Alexandria.

If the city is a participant-- i.e. a buyer in the market-- and not just a regulator, they're free to boycott as they choose.

210 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:06:53am

re: #204 Spare O'Lake

I think, oddly, it's still ok when referring to food. Don't ask me why. I don't know.

211 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:07:07am

re: #208 ArchangelMichael

HH: "So are you Chinese or Japanese?"
KS: "Laotian... from Laos"
HH: "So are you Chinese or Japanese?"

Gotta love the Hankster.

212 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:07:10am

re: #208 ArchangelMichael

HH: "So are you Chinese or Japanese?"
KS: "Laotian... from Laos"
HH: "So are you Chinese or Japanese?"

No, Mr Kahn's Laotian, aren't you, Mr. Kahn?

213 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:07:22am

re: #191 Spare O'Lake

re: #94 Locker

Snark all you want.
My gut tells me it's illegal on constitutional grounds because a municipality's legal powers derive from the State and I doubt the power to boycott another State was ever delegated to LA by CA.
It's just a gut feeling and you can sit there and bitch and moan about how noone is giving you legal proof, but I would suggest instead that you do a little research yourselves.

I'm sorry your feelings are hurt, but when you declare something 'illegal', and then go into a snit when asked why it's illegal, I'm gonna snark. I understand that you want it to be illegal, but that doesn't have any bearing on whether it is or isn't.

The law doesn't run on 'gut feelings', and I'm really not interested in doing research on a possible legal issue someone else brought up.

214 Kragar  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:07:33am

re: #203 Fozzie Bear

I don't know man. His gut is a pretty authoritative source. I'm going to cite my pancreas next time I want to make outrageous claims.

MY PINEAL GLAND TAKES UMBRAGE AT THAT STATEMENT!

215 Soap_Man  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:08:06am

re: #212 Guanxi88

No, Mr Kahn's Laotian, aren't you, Mr. Kahn?

"Fetch me a Mai Tai Mr. Kahn."

216 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:08:17am

re: #208 ArchangelMichael

My favorite episode is when Kahn turns into a hillbilly pit-fighter.

217 Kragar  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:08:24am

re: #212 Guanxi88

No, Mr Kahn's Laotian, aren't you, Mr. Kahn?

KKKAAAHHHNNN!

Sorry, reflex action.

218 ArchangelMichael  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:08:32am

re: #212 Guanxi88

No, Mr Kahn's Laotian, aren't you, Mr. Kahn?

"Le Ocean? What Ocean?"

219 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:08:43am

re: #197 Guanxi88

"Yellow menace" is also more or less out these days.

During World War 2, when training planes were commonly painted yellow, the Navy N3N biplane was officially called the "Canary" but was more usually known as the "Yellow Peril."

220 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:09:15am

re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist

"Your honor, the prosecution would like to call as an expert witness Mr. Fozzie Bear's adrenal gland."

221 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:09:26am

re: #217 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

KKKAAAHHHNNN!

Sorry, reflex action.

Welcome to FANTASY ISLAND!

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:09:30am

re: #192 marjoriemoon

I guess I meant what Locker said. Public schools are secular. Not that religion isn't discussed at all, of course, as in comparative religion or specific religious ties to large groups of people.

It's important for me to point out, I feel, because people have this idea that secular education means you can't mention religion at all. Sixth grade includes big units on Judaism and Christianity, seventh covers Islam, and a whole lot of other faiths get covered as those two years go by.

But people will still try to insist that it's 'illegal' to tell children that early American settlers were Christians, or to talk about the Bible in a public school class. Total BS.

223 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:09:48am

re: #215 Soap_Man

"Fetch me a Mai Tai Mr. Kahn."

Mr. kahn! My bags.

224 Kragar  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:10:00am

re: #197 Guanxi88

"Yellow menace" is also more or less out these days.

And then there is "Yellow Fever", which is what you feel when you seen a hot asian chick.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:10:39am

re: #197 Guanxi88

"Yellow menace" is also more or less out these days.

Used by one of my high school GF's (Chinese) to describe her ex-husband, but...

226 theheat  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:10:40am

re: #200 marjoriemoon

I've dealt with many, many over the years in my business. I notice the majority that did attend college didn't attend anything other than maybe Christian college or Ag school. NONE - no of them - can spell worth a shit, and and many are nearly illiterate. They love guns. They love God, and have no bones about telling everyone else they should, also. Most are strongly anti-abortion, and share varying degrees of dislike of homosexuals from finding them distasteful, to wishing they could be killed.

YMMV

227 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:10:49am

re: #212 Guanxi88

No, Mr Kahn's Laotian, aren't you, Mr. Kahn?


Mihn, it finally happened. Hillbilly neighbor marry trailer trash cousin. You owe me five dollars!

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:10:53am

re: #197 Guanxi88

"Yellow menace" is also more or less out these days.

Actually, she says 'yellow peril'.

229 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:10:58am

I would like to state for the record that I have never seen a varmint with an actually yellow belly. Light tan, perhaps, but not quite yellow.

230 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:11:09am

re: #212 Guanxi88

No, Mr Kahn's Laotian, aren't you, Mr. Kahn?

BTW, anyone else notice that Cotton Hill seems to have a very keen sense of ethnography, if nothing else? With his surname, I'd have probably pegged Kahn as a SE Asian, and probably would have gone with Thai as my default guess, but old Shinless there nailed it in one.

231 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:11:18am

re: #214 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

MY PINEAL GLAND TAKES UMBRAGE AT THAT STATEMENT!

Keep that filthy thing to yourself, I've seen what you use it for!

*NSFW Horror film clip*

232 Nick Morgan  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:11:19am

My children are half "Oriental". Their mother has not objected to that word nor have my kids (not that it comes up). If anyone called them gooks, etc,. I'd be one pissed off occidental!
BTW: I use "Asian" when I am referring to those of eastern ancestry. I just don't consider "oriental" pejorative.

233 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:11:47am

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

It's important for me to point out, I feel, because people have this idea that secular education means you can't mention religion at all. Sixth grade includes big units on Judaism and Christianity, seventh covers Islam, and a whole lot of other faiths get covered as those two years go by.

But people will still try to insist that it's 'illegal' to tell children that early American settlers were Christians, or to talk about the Bible in a public school class. Total BS.

Secular, to me, means exactly what you described. Discussion Religion and Culture from an objective and non-promoting/non-demeaning way.

2 + 2 = 4
Dog is a noun and sometimes a verb
A large percentage of North Americans are Christians.
Christians believe X, Y and Z.

234 Kragar  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:12:06am

re: #231 Slumbering Behemoth

Keep that filthy thing to yourself, I've seen what you use it for!

*NSFW Horror film clip*

I don't even need to see it to know its "From Beyond."

235 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:12:56am

re: #200 marjoriemoon

I sometimes wonder if all those creationists even graduated high school. Would be interesting to know their education.

McLeroy is a dentist, while his pro-creationist Governor Rick Perry graduated from Texas A&M and served in the Air Force as a C-130 pilot. This only means that these two are cynical panderers rather than the actual superstitious ignoramuses they purport to be.

236 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:13:05am

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

It's important for me to point out, I feel, because people have this idea that secular education means you can't mention religion at all. Sixth grade includes big units on Judaism and Christianity, seventh covers Islam, and a whole lot of other faiths get covered as those two years go by.

But people will still try to insist that it's 'illegal' to tell children that early American settlers were Christians, or to talk about the Bible in a public school class. Total BS.

My misspeak for sure. Religion has always made its way into education. When we learned about Asian cultures, we learned about Buddhism and Hinduism, early American history and the Christians leaving Europe. Didn't have much Jewish education in my day, but they teach the Holocaust now, so that's good.

So I'm sorry. I said "devoid" but that's not true at all.

237 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:13:45am

re: #226 theheat

I've dealt with many, many over the years in my business. I notice the majority that did attend college didn't attend anything other than maybe Christian college or Ag school. NONE - no of them - can spell worth a shit, and and many are nearly illiterate. They love guns. They love God, and have no bones about telling everyone else they should, also. Most are strongly anti-abortion, and share varying degrees of dislike of homosexuals from finding them distasteful, to wishing they could be killed.

YMMV

How Godly of them :)

238 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:13:57am

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

I usually hear the BS statement about how 'they' "took god out of public schools".

I generally reply "Which one"?

239 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:14:22am

re: #227 Mad Al-Jaffee

Mihn, it finally happened. Hillbilly neighbor marry trailer trash cousin. You owe me five dollars!

I love the Kahns.

240 Nick Morgan  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:14:29am

re: #233 Locker

Christians believe X, Y and Z.

I believe X, Y and Z!

241 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:14:40am

re: #238 Slumbering Behemoth

I usually hear the BS statement about how 'they' "took god out of public schools".

I generally reply "Which one"?

Seems as an omnipresent Deity, the Almighty really can't be taken out of anywhere.

242 theheat  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:14:54am

re: #237 marjoriemoon

Forgot to mention, about 50% are outright racist. Some aren't racist whatsoever, but the ones who are aren't shy about it.

243 Kragar  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:14:58am

re: #232 Nick Morgan

My children are half "Oriental". Their mother has not objected to that word nor have my kids (not that it comes up). If anyone called them gooks, etc,. I'd be one pissed off occidental!
BTW: I use "Asian" when I am referring to those of eastern ancestry. I just don't consider "oriental" pejorative.

My wife is Japanese or Asian, our kids are Asian-Americans. Keeps it simple. Any derogatory remarks on either heritage causes problems for the speaker.

244 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:15:22am

re: #239 SanFranciscoZionist

I love the Kahns.

I swear to you, sometimes I think Mike Judge knows or knows of my bosses.

245 Locker  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:15:22am

re: #226 theheat

I've dealt with many, many over the years in my business. I notice the majority that did attend college didn't attend anything other than maybe Christian college or Ag school. NONE - no of them - can spell worth a shit, and and many are nearly illiterate. They love guns. They love God, and have no bones about telling everyone else they should, also. Most are strongly anti-abortion, and share varying degrees of dislike of homosexuals from finding them distasteful, to wishing they could be killed.

YMMV

Two movies addressing and mocking the above situation:

Saved!
But I'm a Cheerleader!

Great, great flicks.

246 Renaissance_Man  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:15:58am

re: #235 Shiplord Kirel

McLeroy is a dentist, while his pro-creationist Governor Rick Perry graduated from Texas A&M and served in the Air Force as a C-130 pilot. This only means that these two are cynical panderers rather than the actual superstitious ignoramuses they purport to be.

No, I'm pretty sure McLeroy isn't just a cynical panderer. Nobody could be that breathtakingly idiotic without being a true zealot. And a realistic worldview isn't necessary to get into dental school, or even medical school.

247 Fozzie Bear  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:16:11am

re: #226 theheat

I dream of a day when people who 'graduate' from Bob Jones University or Liberty University can't get a job unless they omit their alma mater from their resumes entirely.

248 Kragar  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:17:25am

re: #238 Slumbering Behemoth

I usually hear the BS statement about how 'they' "took god out of public schools".

I generally reply "Which one"?

Loki pulled the fire alarm during gym class again.

249 Soap_Man  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:18:14am

re: #199 Obdicut

It's pretty much common sense. To me, it's not PC, it's common courtesy.

That's fine, but I think intent matters much more than what word is being used. Perhaps the person just doesn't know. Allow me to give an example. This happened at a bar a few years back:

I walk up to the bar, which is being tended by a black guy about my age. I've ordered from him before, as he works at a couple of bars in my neighborhood. We are friendly with each other. I ask for a drink and he brings it back.

I say, "Thanks, boss." (A common statement from me at the time, no matter who I am talking to.)

The guy gives me a weird look and takes my money. I go back to my table of white hipsters and say "The bartender just gave me the weirdest look." A guy at my table explains that "boss" can be deemed offensive when it comes from a white guy toward a black guy.

I explained that I never heard of that, but my friend insisted that I apologize, which I did the next time I ordered a drink.

Me: "Hey, sorry for calling you boss."
Him: "Why."
Me: "Isn't it offensive?"
Him: "I don't know."
Me: "Then why did you give me a weird look?"
Him: "Because you paid for a $3 beer in quarters."

250 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:18:24am

re: #248 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Loki pulled the fire alarm during gym class again.

And Pan there just can't keep his hands to himself. Ought to team him up with Vishnu over there.

251 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:19:01am

re: #209 Obdicut

Hughes v. Alexandria.

If the city is a participant-- i.e. a buyer in the market-- and not just a regulator, they're free to boycott as they choose.

Thanks for that.
If you have any, would you please cite some authority for your rather expansive and generous interpretation of that case?
I ask because that case involved State legislation and not Municipal legislation. Also, that case did not involve a boycott, but rather was a regulatory program to dispose of scrap automobiles.

252 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:20:05am

re: #241 Guanxi88

When I hear folks say they want to bring prayer back to public schools, I generally reply "That's great. Will children be able to sacrifice cattle in honor of Zeus once again?"

253 Nick Morgan  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:20:48am

re: #243 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My (ex) wife is sansei: and she is 100% American.

254 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:21:00am

re: #252 Slumbering Behemoth

When I hear folks say they want to bring prayer back to public schools, I generally reply "That's great. Will children be able to sacrifice cattle in honor of Zeus once again?"

Will there be bull-dancing in PE?

255 theheat  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:21:11am

re: #246 Renaissance_Man

And some of these people I know are 'professionals' and still can't spell their own name, or put together anything like a sentence. These are the same uppity fucks that make fun of foreigners struggling with English, and that's no lie.

256 ArchangelMichael  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:22:11am

re: #246 Renaissance_Man

No, I'm pretty sure McLeroy isn't just a cynical panderer. Nobody could be that breathtakingly idiotic without being a true zealot. And a realistic worldview isn't necessary to get into dental school, or even medical school.

If Wikipedia is correct on this:

McLeroy received a Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering from Texas A&M University in College Station and his D.D.S. from the University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston. McLeroy formerly served as a first lieutenant in the United States Army.

257 Kragar  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:23:30am

Truly Epic

“Shit,” I mumbled in shock.

“What’s up, man? Everything OK?” Stanley, my friend in the cubicle opposite me, poked his head over the wall like the neighbor from Home Improvement. I hated when he did that. Trying to hold a conversation with somebody peeking down at you over a wall while you remain sitting at your desk is so fundamentally awkward. Your seated posture, which seemed so natural a second ago, suddenly feels stupid and inappropriate.

“Dio just died,” I recited to him, like I had only memorized the words phonetically and had no idea as to their meaning.

“What? Who?”

I stood up abruptly, the back of my knees straightening so quickly that they sent my wheeled office chair spinning out into the corridor between cubicle rows.

“Whoa, what’s going on, dude?” Stanley asked, coming around the barrier to stare into my face. “Oh shit. I know that look. That’s the ‘I’m going out to get supernaturally tanked and engage in a series of increasingly wacky shenanigans that accidentally end in tragedy’ look. Am I right?”

“No, Stanley,” I informed him, adjusting the length of my shirt-cuffs on my wrists and straightening my tie, “What happens next is very deliberate. In a moment, I am going to take the elevator to the ground floor, where I will exit this building. I will proceed two blocks east to Promenade Plaza, where I will strip naked and lay siege to the doughnut shop. If police arrive, I will maul them with my teeth. I will escape on foot, and make my way to the fairgrounds out by the paper mill. Once there, I will burn down the circus. Then I am going to steal the largest, fastest car I can find, and I am going to crash that car at a terrible speed into the oldest and most sacred looking tree I can find. I will then mouth-fuck the OnStar operator from the wreckage.”

All measure of reason drained from Stanley’s face.

“But why?” He asked plainly.

“Because Dio taught me, in part, what it is to be a man. Oh, he did not teach the rational lessons: He did not teach me morality, or responsibility, or restraint. No, Stanley, he taught me that being a man means sometimes ruining things in the most extravagant fashion possible. Because you can, and because it’s awesome. And Dio died today, so now I am going to ruin things. I am going to ruin everything, Stanley. For Dio.”

I took another bite of Danish; I would need the calories.

“But first, Stanley, first I am going to orally pleasure the receptionist – your fiancé – on top of the copier. I will set the machine for 666 copies, and if she has not climaxed by the time it’s finished making them, I will throw her out the window. I’ll be sure to mail one to you, buddy.”

“W… wh…”

“What’s that? Why? You want to know why, again? Because you didn’t know his name, Stanley. You didn’t know his god damn name. But you will now. It was Ronnie James, incidentally. Ronnie James Motherfucking Dio. But that’s okay: I promise this time, you won’t soon forget it.”

I polished off the rest of my coffee, and gently pushed him aside.

“Welp, I gotta be off now to pleasure your woman and commit some Tribute Crimes. Oh, and Stanley?” I turned, clapping him reassuringly on the shoulder, “Ride the tiger, buddy. Ride the tiger.”

258 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:24:00am

According to my boss, who was born & raised in ROC, the preferred term for Chinese is "Creditors"; Japanese are "Elderly," and Vietnamese are "Tradesmen."

259 jvic  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:25:58am

re: #175 Soap_Man

Oriental is offensive now? I must have missed the memo.

Me too. I use 'Asian', but presumed 'Oriental' was falling into disuse as part of the natural evolution of language. I had no idea the word was thoughtcrime.

Much in the language wars--'Oriental', the 'theory' of evolution, etc etc--is about imposing your terms of discourse on your opponent. If he can be intimidated into walking on eggshells for fear of impropriety, so much the better. The merits are secondary or immaterial.

(The opposite tactic is to come as close as possible to the boundary of the unacceptably offensive while retaining plausible deniability.)

IMO the language wars contribute about as much to human progress as debates about angels dancing on pins did.

260 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:26:09am

re: #249 Soap_Man

Heh. Yes, intent matters a hell of a lot. However, common courtesy and common sense tell me that racism actually exists, and that some words really do take on negative connotations due to their use, and that it's best to try to figure that out before talking about another person's race or culture.

For example: Totally fine to call British people "Brits", though a little dismissive. Totally uncool to call Japanese people "Japs", as that was the common usage during WWII when they were our enemy.

So, if you're a guy from Midwest Parakeet Bicycle Supply Inc., doing business for the first time with a Japanese guy, it behooves you to get a little informed about Japanese culture. Likewise, if your new neighbors are Hmong, it behooves you to learn a little bit about them. Included in this little bit would be racial slurs, since they're sadly still all too common.

My favorite "intent matters" story:


One dude at UofC who I really adored came from a ten-person town in Appalachia. Leonard was his name. He was brilliant, and had an uncle who supplied him with an unending supply of textbooks and other stuff so that he actually was able to get into UofC. He'd never, ever met a black person before arriving in Chicago.

I was volutneering at orientation, and I invited him to a party at my house. He came that evening, and I introduced him to one of the co-hosts, my friend Diamon, a seven foot tall black dude. Leonard took his hand, shook it firmly, and said, in his incredible Appalachian accent "I just want you to know I never believed the things they said about you people".

Diamon had to work really hard not to bust a guy laughing, and just thanked Leonard and offered to show him around campus later --and let him know why 'you people' was something he should excise from his vocabulary in the future.

261 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:26:27am

re: #249 Soap_Man

That's fine, but I think intent matters much more than what word is being used. Perhaps the person just doesn't know. Allow me to give an example. This happened at a bar a few years back:

I walk up to the bar, which is being tended by a black guy about my age. I've ordered from him before, as he works at a couple of bars in my neighborhood. We are friendly with each other. I ask for a drink and he brings it back.

I say, "Thanks, boss." (A common statement from me at the time, no matter who I am talking to.)

The guy gives me a weird look and takes my money. I go back to my table of white hipsters and say "The bartender just gave me the weirdest look." A guy at my table explains that "boss" can be deemed offensive when it comes from a white guy toward a black guy.

I explained that I never heard of that, but my friend insisted that I apologize, which I did the next time I ordered a drink.

Me: "Hey, sorry for calling you boss."
Him: "Why."
Me: "Isn't it offensive?"
Him: "I don't know."
Me: "Then why did you give me a weird look?"
Him: "Because you paid for a $3 beer in quarters."

LOL cute

262 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:26:44am

re: #255 theheat

I just read an application with four typos from a guy with a Masters from Johns Hopkins. Depressing.

263 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:27:34am

Oh, how clever...

Preying on Prayers

264 theheat  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:29:09am

re: #262 Obdicut

You want to know what's more depressing? I get correspondence daily from these people, and have to disseminate it. Add their red meat political emails, insincere FW FW prayer chains, and off-color jokes many feel free to share with me, and my job sucks all day long.

265 lostlakehiker  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:29:13am

There is some body of law around boycotts. The general idea was that secondary boycotts are illegal. One may boycott the bus company because it discriminates, but one may not boycott the gas chain because it sells gasoline to the bus company.

A boycott of Arizona might be seen as a primary boycott. A boycott of Oklahoma, because it fails to boycott AZ, would certainly be a secondary boycott.

How would LA enforce its boycott? Are grocery stores in LA forbidden to carry produce from AZ? Are LA civilians forbidden to vacation in AZ? Are AZ civilians forbidden to vacation in LA? Or is it just that LA city officials may not schedule a "retreat" in AZ?

266 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:30:42am

re: #263 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, how clever...

Preying on Prayers

He's right. In my village hall, they say a "generic" prayer. They don't mention Jesus.

267 ArchangelMichael  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:30:46am

re: #262 Obdicut

I just read an application with four typos from a guy with a Masters from Johns Hopkins. Depressing.

We get resumes here all the time full of typos and... my favorite part is they usually have email addresses that are something like cooldude3452 at hotmail or something equally 'unprofessional'. These are 1099 IT and Security contractors.

268 Renaissance_Man  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:30:52am

re: #262 Obdicut

I just read an application with four typos from a guy with a Masters from Johns Hopkins. Depressing.

When I was doing my Masters, the final bonus throwaway question on one of the final exams was something about why someone on a spaceship wouldn't hear the sound of an explosion outside. As I came out of that exam, I saw two guys arguing about this stupid throwaway question, and they called me to intercede. One was insisting that the answer couldn't be right, because there was air in space, just no oxygen.

That guy not only got that Masters, but is now in med school.

269 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:31:28am

re: #252 Slumbering Behemoth

When I hear folks say they want to bring prayer back to public schools, I generally reply "That's great. Will children be able to sacrifice cattle in honor of Zeus once again?"

Old Time Religion

We will pray to Aphrodite
She's beautiful but flighty
In her silken see-thru nightie
She's good enough for me.

We will pray to Zarathrustra,
Pray just like we used-to,
I'm a Zarathrustra booster,
He's good enough for me.

We will pray just like the Druids,
Drinking strange fermented fluids,
Go dancing naked through the woods,
They're good enough for me.

We will pray to the god Buddha,
Of gods there is none cuter,
Come in silver, brass or pewter,
He's good enough for me.

We will pray with those Egyptians,
Who built pyramids to put our crypts in
Covered up with strange inscriptions,
They're good enough for me.

We will pray to Ra and Ahmen
Just like Tutankhamen,
And teach our friends embalming,
They're good enough for me.

Hare Krishna he must be laughed on,
To see me dressed in saffron,
With my hair only half-on
He's good enough for me.

I will rise up at early morning,
When my Lord gives me the warning,
That the solar age is dawning,
He's good enough for me.

We won't worship like the Persians,
We'll sacrifice no virgins,
Please control your carnal urgin's,
It's good enough for me.

We will all worship the Mother
Not the womb of any other
Virgin, crone and mother
She's good enough for me

We will pray for New Age Aquarians,
And hang out in Planetariums,
Lotta um are Unitarians,
They're good enough for me.

We will pray to a god named Odin,
In their wooden boats go floatin'
Filled Europe with forbodin'
He's good enough for me.

We will pray to the Quakers
Oft confused with the Shakers,
Of war they are not makers,
They're good enough for me.

We will pray to the god Shiva,
the one with many sleeva's
Who destroys all disbelivas
He's good enough for me.

We will pray to rev Moon
All our friend will think we're loony
As we sing this crazy tune-y,
He's good enough for me.

(Recorded by Pete Seeger on Precious Friend)

270 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:31:39am

re: #262 Obdicut

I just read an application with four typos from a guy with a Masters from Johns Hopkins. Depressing.

We'd all better get used to it. Ours is a post-literate age, sad to say; our written language is slowly devolving into a sort of crude pictogrammic system with the occasional bit of wildly unstandardized phoneticism for clarification.

271 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:31:47am

re: #265 lostlakehiker

How would LA enforce its boycott? Are grocery stores in LA forbidden to carry produce from AZ? Are LA civilians forbidden to vacation in AZ? Are AZ civilians forbidden to vacation in LA? Or is it just that LA city officials may not schedule a "retreat" in AZ?

No, no, and no.

It's limited to the city's own financial actions, and does not invalidate or necessarily ban renewal of city contracts with Arizona companies.

It's mostly just grandstanding.

272 Spider Mensch  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:32:16am

re: #260 Obdicut

My favorite "intent matters" story:


One dude at UofC who I really adored came from a ten-person town in Appalachia. Leonard was his name. He was brilliant, and had an uncle who supplied him with an unending supply of textbooks and other stuff so that he actually was able to get into UofC. He'd never, ever met a black person before arriving in Chicago.

I was volutneering at orientation, and I invited him to a party at my house. He came that evening, and I introduced him to one of the co-hosts, my friend Diamon, a seven foot tall black dude. Leonard took his hand, shook it firmly, and said, in his incredible Appalachian accent "I just want you to know I never believed the things they said about you people".

Diamon had to work really hard not to bust a guy laughing, and just thanked Leonard and offered to show him around campus later --and let him know why 'you people' was something he should excise from his vocabulary in the future.

Yup, not many 7 foot tall people in Appalachia :^)

273 ArchangelMichael  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:32:27am

re: #268 Renaissance_Man

When I was doing my Masters, the final bonus throwaway question on one of the final exams was something about why someone on a spaceship wouldn't hear the sound of an explosion outside. As I came out of that exam, I saw two guys arguing about this stupid throwaway question, and they called me to intercede. One was insisting that the answer couldn't be right, because there was air in space, just no oxygen.

That guy not only got that Masters, but is now in med school.

I know someone with a BS in Information Technology who thought the sun was a big ball of gas that was on fire... not nuclear fusion... FIRE... like burning.

274 theheat  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:32:31am

re: #270 Guanxi88

Aspire 2 text gr8ly.

275 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:33:13am

re: #263 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, how clever...

Preying on Prayers

Fox News has morphed into the 700 Club.

276 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:33:14am

re: #263 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, how clever...

Preying on Prayers

Who was that woman, the blondie? She's an idiot. I don't watch FOX news.

277 Aceofwhat?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:33:15am

re: #199 Obdicut

It's pretty much common sense. To me, it's not PC, it's common courtesy.

I concur in part and dissent in part. But then again, i don't get worked up about it because i don't believe in "accidentally" offended. If i didn't intend to offend someone, they can cry as much as they want, but they're not getting more than a quick sorry from me.

so i disagree that it's common sense, as evidenced by all of the questions throughout this thread, but i agree that it's not a big deal. someone who is offended by the innocent use of some old, quasi-questionable term has an internal problem they need to deal with.

(and good afternoon!)

278 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:33:41am

re: #265 lostlakehiker

Nope. See my post above. Or SFZ's.

It's amusing to me that many of the same people who are very for States' rights and local control-- and I don't mean you-- are so angry at LA for doing this.

279 Kragar  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:33:59am

Now the real fun comes in when you're doing a twelve person conference call reviewing technical procedures and you spend 45 minutes arguing whether one of the subtables should be using a colon or a semi-colon.

280 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:34:08am

re: #265 lostlakehiker

How would LA enforce its boycott? Are grocery stores in LA forbidden to carry produce from AZ? Are LA civilians forbidden to vacation in AZ? Are AZ civilians forbidden to vacation in LA? Or is it just that LA city officials may not schedule a "retreat" in AZ?


I'm pretty sure it was a non-binding symbolic vote.

281 lostlakehiker  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:34:42am

re: #247 Fozzie Bear

I dream of a day when people who 'graduate' from Bob Jones University or Liberty University can't get a job unless they omit their alma mater from their resumes entirely.

I dream of a day when people are hired for their ability to do the job. Period. Nothing else should matter at all. Blacklists and discriminatory practices are odious.

It's perfectly fair to take into account the quality of instruction at a school. You wouldn't want a Bob Jones graduate to be curator of the Museum of Natural History.

282 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:34:50am

re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sorry your feelings are hurt, but when you declare something 'illegal', and then go into a snit when asked why it's illegal, I'm gonna snark. I understand that you want it to be illegal, but that doesn't have any bearing on whether it is or isn't.

The law doesn't run on 'gut feelings', and I'm really not interested in doing research on a possible legal issue someone else brought up.

No problem, no hurt feelings. You called me on it and you had every right to do so.
However, you might want to keep in mind that after you called me on it yesterday I did respond to you, and that it was therefore a bit surprising today when you found it necessary to keep harping on it.

283 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:35:21am

re: #278 Obdicut

Nope. See my post above. Or SFZ's.

It's amusing to me that many of the same people who are very for States' rights and local control-- and I don't mean you-- are so angry at LA for doing this.

And in many cases were overtly disdainful of the idea that there might be Constitutional issues with SB 1070 to begin with.

284 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:35:24am

re: #277 Aceofwhat?

If someone doesn't bother to learn anything about another culture before talking about them or associating with them, I think they're liable for the offense they cause. Innocence is a good excuse, but not intentional ignorance.

285 Kragar  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:35:26am

re: #280 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty sure it was a non-binding symbolic vote.

You say that now. Wait till they get the stocks and pillories set up.

286 ArchangelMichael  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:35:45am

re: #280 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty sure it was a non-binding symbolic vote.

AFAIK, the city government cancelled, or is supposed to cancel any contracts they have with businesses based in Arizona.

287 theheat  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:35:50am

re: #276 marjoriemoon

Fox News could be fundie pr0n all day anymore, for all I know. I simply can't watch it.

288 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:37:27am

re: #287 theheat

Fox News could be fundie pr0n all day anymore, for all I know. I simply can't watch it.

I dunno about you, but fundie pr0n sounds like it'd be kinda dull to me.

289 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:37:29am

re: #287 theheat

Fox News could be fundie pr0n all day anymore, for all I know. I simply can't watch it.

hehehe If it was fundie pr0n, my hubby would watch it. He's pretty much ecumenical that way.

290 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:38:46am

re: #289 marjoriemoon

hehehe If it was fundie pr0n, my hubby would watch it. He's pretty much ecumenical that way.

Kinky, in a strait-laced kinda way.

(Amish wet-bonnet contests and the like)

291 Kragar  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:38:49am

re: #288 Guanxi88

I dunno about you, but fundie pr0n sounds like it'd be kinda dull to me.

Well, its kind of dull to start, but when they think no ones watching, its all whips, wife swapping and teh gay buttsekhs.

292 lostlakehiker  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:39:18am

re: #273 ArchangelMichael

I know someone with a BS in Information Technology (BSIT) who thought the sun was a big ball of gas that was on fire... not nuclear fusion... FIRE... like burning.

That's ridiculous. There isn't any oxygen in space air.
/bsittin

293 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:39:31am

re: #280 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty sure it was a non-binding symbolic vote.

I'm wondering also if this is more of an embargo rather than a boycott. As was stated above you have primary and secondary boycotts. There are also vertical and horizontal boycotts.

As long as city council affects their relationship with Arizona from within their own authority they should be fine. The only trouble I can see would be if they forced or coerced other city departments to make their decisions based on their intent to boycott (or embargo) Arizona outside of their jurisdiction.

294 Guanxi88  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:39:31am

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, its kind of dull to start, but when they think no ones watching, its all whips, wife swapping and teh gay buttsekhs.

Secret indulgence of neurotic pathologies is always sad and dull.

295 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:39:43am

re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist

In honor of the discussion of race, here is the very UN-PC take on it by Brad Neely:

Please don't watch if you're offended by eagle-fucking or satire.

296 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:39:46am

re: #284 Obdicut

If someone doesn't bother to learn anything about another culture before talking about them or associating with them, I think they're liable for the offense they cause. Innocence is a good excuse, but not intentional ignorance.

?
So . . . if I unexpectedly meet up with someone whose culture is one I have not had done recent research, I should - what, ignore them and be rude? Or try to be pleasant and courteous but risk an unintentional offense?

297 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:39:54am

re: #290 Guanxi88

Kinky, in a strait-laced kinda way.

(Amish wet-bonnet contests and the like)

If there's any chance of an appearance of a bosom, he's pretty much non-denominational.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:41:04am

re: #282 Spare O'Lake

No problem, no hurt feelings. You called me on it and you had every right to do so.
However, you might want to keep in mind that after you called me on it yesterday I did respond to you, and that it was therefore a bit surprising today when you found it necessary to keep harping on it.

It was today, I believe.

299 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:42:31am

re: #209 Obdicut

Much to my disappointment, you haven't responded to my #251.

300 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:42:47am

re: #268 Renaissance_Man

When I was doing my Masters, the final bonus throwaway question on one of the final exams was something about why someone on a spaceship wouldn't hear the sound of an explosion outside. As I came out of that exam, I saw two guys arguing about this stupid throwaway question, and they called me to intercede. One was insisting that the answer couldn't be right, because there was air in space, just no oxygen.

That guy not only got that Masters, but is now in med school.

I've told the story before of a young Moon landing denialist I met shortly after Fox TV's broadcast of its notorious "documentary" Conspiracy Theory:
Did We Land on the Moon.
One of my points against the hoax claim was that amateur radio operators were able to track the Apollo craft all the way to the Moon. If they could, I argued, practically any military force in the world could, implying of course that a hoax would be exposed immediately.

The denialist immediately yelped that her uncle had been in the military and that they were all robots and would go along with whatever they were told so there. I ignored the slander and clarified that I was talking about FOREIGN and potentially unfriendly forces. I mean, if we couldn't get the NVA to stop shooting at us, it was a fair bet they would not go along with a fake Moon landing.

After some back and forth, it finally emerged that this girl did not know THAT THERE IS MORE THAN ONE NATIONAL MILITARY FORCE IN THE WORLD. She thought all "military" was American and that the people we fought from time to time were armed civilians resisting our attempts to repress them. She did realize that foreign forces, chiefly Nazis, had existed in the past but apparently thought we had a monopoly now.

301 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:42:54am

re: #286 ArchangelMichael

L.A. approves boycott of Arizona


The resolution is expected to be signed by Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa. It bars the nation's second-largest city from conducting business or reaching new contracts with Arizona businesses unless the immigration law is repealed, and also prohibits most city business trips to the state.

Los Angeles has investments and contracts in Arizona worth as much as $58 million, much of which involve airport, port and energy service that can't lawfully be affected by the boycott. That leaves about $7.7 million in city contracts that could possibly be affected, said Councilwoman Janice Hahn, who co-authored the resolution.

Some of those contracts include helicopter services, Taser guns, waste management, engineering and surveillance equipment.

It's not a complete boycott, just partial. I assume there are legal issue with existing contracts, LA could be sued if they hust cancel them.

302 engineer cat  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:44:31am

it's a real pleasure to read a freeper post strenuously attempting to explain away the democratic win in Murtha's old seat. the best the poor bastard can do is to blame it on the governor maliciously scheduling the special election on the same day as the primary.

also, studying the polls for the Kentucky senate race, it seems that the Paul vs. Conway race makes for the best chance for democrats to take over this republican seat.

finally, i should note that despite the press repeatedly describing the Paul victory as a victory for the teabag party, my correspondants among the bag people strenously reject the paulistas and tell me that they are not "true conservatives"!

303 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:44:44am

re: #276 marjoriemoon

Who was that woman, the blondie? She's an idiot. I don't watch FOX news.

She is an idiot. Her co-host isn't that bright either.

304 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:45:05am

re: #300 Shiplord Kirel

I've told the story before of a young Moon landing denialist I met shortly after Fox TV's broadcast of its notorious "documentary" Conspiracy Theory:
Did We Land on the Moon.
One of my points against the hoax claim was that amateur radio operators were able to track the Apollo craft all the way to the Moon. If they could, I argued, practically any military force in the world could, implying of course that a hoax would be exposed immediately.

The denialist immediately yelped that her uncle had been in the military and that they were all robots and would go along with whatever they were told so there. I ignored the slander and clarified that I was talking about FOREIGN and potentially unfriendly forces. I mean, if we couldn't get the NVA to stop shooting at us, it was a fair bet they would not go along with a fake Moon landing.

After some back and forth, it finally emerged that this girl did not know THAT THERE IS MORE THAN ONE NATIONAL MILITARY FORCE IN THE WORLD. She thought all "military" was American and that the people we fought from time to time were armed civilians resisting our attempts to repress them. She did realize that foreign forces, chiefly Nazis, had existed in the past but apparently thought we had a monopoly now.

That still just blows my mind.

305 bratwurst  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:45:12am

re: #296 reine.de.tout

?
So . . . if I unexpectedly meet up with someone whose culture is one I have not had done recent research, I should - what, ignore them and be rude? Or try to be pleasant and courteous but risk an unintentional offense?

Obviously the latter. Only a small percentage of people get seriously upset over an honest mistake regarding a term the may find offensive. Speaking for myself, I tolerate the first "don't Jew me down" I hear from someone...repetition after I request a change in terminology is another story.

306 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:45:24am

re: #265 lostlakehiker

There is some body of law around boycotts. The general idea was that secondary boycotts are illegal. One may boycott the bus company because it discriminates, but one may not boycott the gas chain because it sells gasoline to the bus company.

A boycott of Arizona might be seen as a primary boycott. A boycott of Oklahoma, because it fails to boycott AZ, would certainly be a secondary boycott.

How would LA enforce its boycott? Are grocery stores in LA forbidden to carry produce from AZ? Are LA civilians forbidden to vacation in AZ? Are AZ civilians forbidden to vacation in LA? Or is it just that LA city officials may not schedule a "retreat" in AZ?

Has there ever to your knowledge been a case of a municipality boycotting another State? Or of a State boycotting another State?

307 Jaerik  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:46:06am

re: #288 Guanxi88

I dunno about you, but fundie pr0n sounds like it'd be kinda dull to me.

Judging from the public sexual proclivities of fundamentalism-inclined politicians recently, it's probably actually pretty wild.

308 What, me worry?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:46:11am

re: #301 Killgore Trout

L.A. approves boycott of Arizona

It's not a complete boycott, just partial. I assume there are legal issue with existing contracts, LA could be sued if they hust cancel them.

Wow. That's really heavy. What's on their tshirts? COFEM?

309 Nick Morgan  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:47:06am

re: #301 Killgore Trout

So, L.A. is not going to boycott energy services? If they did, would that mean no power from AZ?

310 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:47:53am

re: #296 reine.de.tout

Hrm. I'm not sure where I'm not making myself clear. Let me try to break it down:

A) If you're using particular words to refer to a racial group (or other group), you should verify whether those words are actually sourced in racism. As I noted, "Brit" is a pretty inoffensive term for a person from Britain, but "Jap" or "Spic" are both racist words with racist roots, even though "Jap" is just a shortening of Japanese and Spic is just a shortening of Hispanic.

B) When you meet someone from a cultural group you're ignorant about, common courtesy will get you through just fine. Hell, you can even go ask your Hmong neighbors, "So tell me about the Hmong." I just meant that, to me, politeness means that I want whoever I'm conversing with to be comfortable, and to do so I'll want to know their cultures taboos and interesting tidbits.

C) Intent does matter, and most people realize that. Some people don't, and I think they're tiresome. I'm just saying that a good intent is best shown by making sure your interaction is appropriate for whoever you're talking to- and culture is part of that.

I'm careful not to say things on LGF that would cause offense that wouldn't cause offense amongst subgroups of my friends. This isn't because I think you guys are wilting violets, but because intent is harder to read over the internet and I don't want to get bogged down explaining what I meant.

311 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:49:04am

re: #301 Killgore Trout

L.A. approves boycott of Arizona

It's not a complete boycott, just partial. I assume there are legal issue with existing contracts, LA could be sued if they hust cancel them.

This could present a problem:

Councilwoman Jan Perry said the city should try to lure any organization considering holding a convention in Arizona to Los Angeles, while Councilman Richard Alarcon suggested offering Arizona businesses incentives to relocate to Los Angeles.

That implies coercion or a conspiracy.

312 Aceofwhat?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:50:55am

re: #284 Obdicut

If someone doesn't bother to learn anything about another culture before talking about them or associating with them, I think they're liable for the offense they cause. Innocence is a good excuse, but not intentional ignorance.

Bolded - completely agree.

313 ArchangelMichael  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:51:02am

re: #311 Gus 802

That implies coercion or a conspiracy.

That and there's a snowballs chance in hell that any business already doing well in Arizona is going to move to California... there's a mass exodus going the other way out of the state now.

314 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:51:07am

re: #299 Spare O'Lake

Sorry, the amount of time I prefer to spend dealing with Canadians who are relying on their own 'gut feeling' about the US Constitution is kind of limited. Especially when you don't even get that 'illegal' and 'unconstitutional' aren't synonyms.

Here you go-- make sure to read the comments.

[Link: volokh.com...]

In general, if it's a constitutional issue and you want a reasonable conservative site to read about it on, Volokh is pretty good.

315 Aceofwhat?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:55:01am

re: #296 reine.de.tout

?
So . . . if I unexpectedly meet up with someone whose culture is one I have not had done recent research, I should - what, ignore them and be rude? Or try to be pleasant and courteous but risk an unintentional offense?

You would be innocent, in that case. I'm holding him to "intentional ignorance" from his post...

316 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:55:47am

re: #313 ArchangelMichael

That and there's a snowballs chance in hell that any business already doing well in Arizona is going to move to California... there's a mass exodus going the other way out of the state now.

Very true -- realistically speaking. Like I said earlier I think the city will be fine if they limit this to their legal role and authority. Once they step outside and try to affect private conventions; luring businesses away from Arizona; printing up literature; trying to influence and sports franchises; etc.; they will run into legal problems. They also have to honor existing contracts. That means all they can simply do is refuse any new contracts.

317 sagehen  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:56:10am

re: #306 Spare O'Lake

Has there ever to your knowledge been a case of a municipality boycotting another State? Or of a State boycotting another State?

Everybody boycotted Arizona once before, when they decided to be the only state that wouldn't recognize Martin Luther King Day.

After the Superbowl went to some other place instead, the voters of Arizona (by referendum) overturned the State Legislature's error.

318 Gus  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:58:09am

Back later!

Watch out where the huskies go...

319 Aceofwhat?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:58:29am

re: #309 Nick Morgan

So, L.A. is not going to boycott energy services? If they did, would that mean no power from AZ?

exaaactly...bunch of highly principled folks over there...

320 Aceofwhat?  Wed, May 19, 2010 11:59:01am

ooh...shiny new thread...

321 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:02:27pm

re: #305 bratwurst

Obviously the latter. Only a small percentage of people get seriously upset over an honest mistake regarding a term the may find offensive. Speaking for myself, I tolerate the first "don't Jew me down" I hear from someone...repetition after I request a change in terminology is another story.

Not an expression I use.

But to Obdi's point - I honestly don't go researching all cultures every time I leave my house to see if something has changed and there are expressions I should avoid in case I happen to run into someone from that culture.

Not every unintentional offense is done through the laziness of the offender. It just sometimes happens.

322 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:04:53pm

re: #310 Obdicut

Hrm. I'm not sure where I'm not making myself clear. Let me try to break it down:

A) If you're using particular words to refer to a racial group (or other group), you should verify whether those words are actually sourced in racism. As I noted, "Brit" is a pretty inoffensive term for a person from Britain, but "Jap" or "Spic" are both racist words with racist roots, even though "Jap" is just a shortening of Japanese and Spic is just a shortening of Hispanic.

B) When you meet someone from a cultural group you're ignorant about, common courtesy will get you through just fine. Hell, you can even go ask your Hmong neighbors, "So tell me about the Hmong." I just meant that, to me, politeness means that I want whoever I'm conversing with to be comfortable, and to do so I'll want to know their cultures taboos and interesting tidbits.

C) Intent does matter, and most people realize that. Some people don't, and I think they're tiresome. I'm just saying that a good intent is best shown by making sure your interaction is appropriate for whoever you're talking to- and culture is part of that.

I don't disagree; but I just do not think to sit down and check out every culture I could possibly encounter during a day before I leave my house.

I'm careful not to say things on LGF that would cause offense that wouldn't cause offense amongst subgroups of my friends. This isn't because I think you guys are wilting violets, but because intent is harder to read over the internet and I don't want to get bogged down explaining what I meant.

And I think it's been fairly clear that I hold this same view, and try to be careful with how I put things.

323 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:05:20pm

re: #314 Obdicut

Sorry, the amount of time I prefer to spend dealing with Canadians who are relying on their own 'gut feeling' about the US Constitution is kind of limited. Especially when you don't even get that 'illegal' and 'unconstitutional' aren't synonyms.

Here you go-- make sure to read the comments.

[Link: volokh.com...]

In general, if it's a constitutional issue and you want a reasonable conservative site to read about it on, Volokh is pretty good.

Thanks again for responding.
Contrary to your claims, the site you referred me to does not support the constitutionality of the LA boycott.
The blogger's lead comment is in agreement with my own gut feeling, and the following comments are all over the map but in no way can fairly be said to support your smug position.
As a Canadian, I do not pretend to expertise in your laws.
But you sir have substantially misrepresented the position.

324 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:08:06pm

re: #317 sagehen

Everybody boycotted Arizona once before, when they decided to be the only state that wouldn't recognize Martin Luther King Day.

After the Superbowl went to some other place instead, the voters of Arizona (by referendum) overturned the State Legislature's error.

Did that involve a legislative boycott or an administrative decision by the NFL?

325 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:10:16pm

re: #323 Spare O'Lake

You didn't bother to read the comments, or, apparently, the full post that was updated in light of the comments.. I did not represent the position of the site at all-- I referred you to the discussion. Please read the comments, and don't claim I misrepresented a position when I didn't even represent it.

The blogger's lead comment is in agreement with my own gut feeling, and the following comments are all over the map but in no way can fairly be said to support your smug position.

Really? Not even the bit where it says:

[And thanks to commenters who referred me to the “market participant” exception to the dormant commerce clause — I had indeed forgotten about that, and it probably would have applicability here to shield LA’s actions/DGP]

As a Canadian, I do not pretend to expertise in your laws.

You do, actually, when you say what your gut feeling about the constitutionality of something is.

Do you get why saying something is illegal and saying it is unconstitutional are wildly divergent, and why it is foolish to confuse the two?

326 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:11:49pm

re: #322 reine.de.tout

I don't disagree; but I just do not think to sit down and check out every culture I could possibly encounter during a day before I leave my house.

I'm not saying you should, and I'm unsure why you think that I am. The incidents I've referred to have been a neighbor moving in or doing business with someone, not encountering someone randomly.

327 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:13:14pm

re: #325 Obdicut

Messed up the formatting. The sentence "As a Canadian, I do not pretend to expertise in your laws." belongs to Spare, not to Volokh.

328 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:20:09pm

re: #326 Obdicut


I misunderstood, then, your #284:

re: #284 Obdicut

If someone doesn't bother to learn anything about another culture before talking about them or associating with them, I think they're liable for the offense they cause. Innocence is a good excuse, but not intentional ignorance.

329 Spare O'Lake  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:24:25pm

re: #325 Obdicut

In your first response to my comment you did indeed make a representation of the legality of the LA law, and your subsequent attempt to deny it is silly.
Suffice it to say that the constitutionality of the law is very much in issue.
As for your pedantic reflux regarding the difference between illegality and unconstitutionality, I won't waste my time answering such a picayune point other than to point out that the consequences of the boycott being unconstitutional are far more egregious than if the boycott were merely illegal.

330 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:24:57pm

re: #328 reine.de.tout

I meant if you know it's going to happen ahead of time. Or, say, if you live in a neighborhood with a lot of orthodox Jews-- it makes sense to find out what's up with that whole orthodox Jew thing so you don't unintentionally cause offense.

I'm sure you do just fine on this.

331 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:28:46pm

re: #329 Spare O'Lake

In your first response to my comment you did indeed make a representation of the legality of the LA law, and your subsequent attempt to deny it is silly.

Are you trying to talk about the constitutionality of the law? Because the 'legality' of the law is something very different.

As for your pedantic reflux regarding the difference between illegality and unconstitutionality, I won't waste my time answering such a picayune point other than to point out that the consequences of the boycott being unconstitutional are far more egregious than if the boycott were merely illegal.

Then it's not such a picayune point, is it, if the difference means that it's far more egregious one way or the other? You can't claim both at once; they're contradictory.

As I said, the case I cited supports the ability of cities to boycott when they're the market participant rather than just the regulator, which is the case here. Is there something you're failing to understand about that?

332 jvic  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:30:32pm

re: #260 Obdicut

My favorite "intent matters" story:

One dude at UofC who I really adored came from a ten-person town in Appalachia. Leonard was his name. He was brilliant, and had an uncle who supplied him with an unending supply of textbooks and other stuff so that he actually was able to get into UofC. He'd never, ever met a black person before arriving in Chicago.

I was volutneering at orientation, and I invited him to a party at my house. He came that evening, and I introduced him to one of the co-hosts, my friend Diamon, a seven foot tall black dude. Leonard took his hand, shook it firmly, and said, in his incredible Appalachian accent "I just want you to know I never believed the things they said about you people".

Diamon had to work really hard not to bust a guy laughing, and just thanked Leonard and offered to show him around campus later --and let him know why 'you people' was something he should excise from his vocabulary in the future.

Your friend was demonstrating (what should be) an essential feature of the 'intent matters' principle: both parties in a voluntary interaction should presume the other's good intentions.

Such interactions are also situational, IMO: assuming good intentions by both, I would expect a visitor or immigrant to be more flexible & adaptive to the host culture than vice versa.

333 Obdicut  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:32:19pm

re: #332 jvic

Yep. Common courtesy only really works when both people use it.

334 Tigger2005  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:48:13pm

I think certain words just had the misfortune of being in use at a time when racial stereotyping was pretty much a matter of course in society...something that people did more or less unthinkingly. The words became inextricably linked with the stereotypes. Now, "Oriental" through no fault of its own, sounds to some like a racial epithet. It calls to mind the old stereotypes of Asians.

I don't find it "politically correct" to not use the term. It's called being courteous and polite.


re: #136 Fozzie Bear

I think you can still say "the Orient" to refer to geography without offending, but apart from that, it has been coopted by racists, and thus, people who don't want to be associated with the racists have abandoned the word.

I find this to be one of the more peculiar aspects of racism / political correctness. I can think of dozens of descriptive terms that were considered completely neutral in tone when I was a kid that now, you just don't say anymore.

335 aurelius  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:52:48pm

cue wingnuts falsely claiming islam is not a race in 3..2...1...

336 reidr  Wed, May 19, 2010 12:53:45pm

re: #125 Spare O'Lake

I was not aware that the usage "Oriental" has become unacceptable. Is it only the use as a noun that is objectionable, or is the adjective also verboten?

I was informed of that fact after using the term back in the early '90s by a friend who was more in tune with such things. I felt like the goober from a small upstate NY town that I mostly was. Or like my parents.

I'd avoid either use, by the way....

337 Mr.Boots  Wed, May 19, 2010 1:50:07pm

All winter, down in SW Forida, I heard racist hate speech uttered with the same disclaimer, " I'm not racist, I just refuse to be politically correct."

338 AK-47%  Wed, May 19, 2010 1:50:31pm

re: #336 reidr

I was informed of that fact after using the term back in the early '90s by a friend who was more in tune with such things. I felt like the goober from a small upstate NY town that I mostly was. Or like my parents.

I'd avoid either use, by the way...

Do we have to change the title of the Agatha Christie mystery novel to Murder on the Central Eurasian landmass Express?

339 Mr.Boots  Wed, May 19, 2010 2:38:53pm

re: #336 reidr

re: #336 reidr

re: #125 Spare O'Lake


I was informed of that fact after using the term back in the early '90s by a friend who was more in tune with such things. I felt like the goober from a small upstate NY town that I mostly was. Or like my parents.

I'd avoid either use, by the way...

I also learned that a few years back because we live in a university area with a large Asian population. It works for me. I also worked in the Farmingville of film fame area, and one learns quickly that not not all Latinos are Mexican. My friend has a store in Brooklyn and has learned the difference between Eastern Europeans, both legal and illegal. Knowing the proper terms sure beats pissing people off.

I believe the people and persons being referred to should determine what term is acceptable.


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