Rand Paul: Uh, I Meant ‘Yes’

Politics • Views: 3,689

On the Laura Ingraham show this morning, Rand Paul decided to announce: “Yes, I would have voted for the Civil Rights Act.” (You have to wonder why he couldn’t answer “yes” last night when Rachel Maddow repeatedly asked this very question.)

“These are settled issues in the Civil Rights Act,” he said. “I have no intention of bringing up anything related to the Civil Rights Act… I think [segregation] is sort of a stain and blight on our history — so, no, I have never really favored any change in the Civil Rights Act or any of that. But they have seemed to unleash the loony left on me.”

“Sort of a stain?” Is there some question about this?

Paul also says his appearance on the Maddow show was a “mistake,” which is indisputably true, and says he does not favor repealing the Civil Rights Act, which no one accused him of.

Notice, however, that even when he’s trying to walk back his disastrous statements, he still slips in those little weasel phrases that make the far right’s hearts rejoice.

Laura: “Would you have voted for the Civil Rights Act?”

“Yes, because I think the preponderance of the evidence was that we had some abhorrent things going on in our society—segregation, the Jim Crow laws…I think the south had failed and that the federal government did have a role in ending discrimination in all of these practices.”

UPDATE at 5/20/10 12:22:10 pm:

Correction: Democratic opponent Jack Conway did accuse Rand Paul of wanting to repeal the Civil Rights Act and the Americans With Disabilities Act, on the Chris Matthews show.

Conway said Rand Paul made this statement in an interview with the Louisville Courier-Journal editorial board. If this is the interview Conway references, then his statement is false; the section in question starts at about one hour in, and Rand Paul does not say he wants to repeal either of those historic laws. Instead he does the same waffle dance he did with NPR and Rachel Maddow, including the bits about Martin Luther King, Jr.

Rand Paul absolutely is calling into question one of the fundamental tenets of the Civil Rights Act, and that’s bad enough. But I haven’t found a statement from him in which he calls for its repeal.

Jump to bottom

312 comments
1 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:39:07am

I think some aide must have smacked him in the face or something after Maddow last night.

2 Obdicut  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:39:28am

For someone who's supposedly a principled idealist, he sure weasels around a lot.

3 Vambo  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:39:46am

Damn loony left and their civil rights.

4 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:39:47am

I'm sure his handlers read him the riot act after that.

5 Nick Morgan  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:40:10am

Yes, Rand is a freaking weasel (not offense to Ice).

6 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:40:37am

There is a part of me which can't help but want to see Samuel L Jackson walk in, pimp slap Rand and say "Yes or no Motherfucker!"

7 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:41:15am

"I can see the Mason Dixon line from my backyard." -- Rand Paul

8 Cineaste  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:41:27am

Bill Clinton splices a grammatical hair about whether he slept with someone and he gets torn to bits and impeached.

Rand Paul splices a grammatical hair about whether segregation should have been ended and he gets cheered.

Good bye Right, have fun on that ship you're all on. Watch out as you sail over the horizon, the earth is flat, ya' know? /

*head smack*

9 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:42:11am

I find Rand Paul lacking in moral clarity...

10 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:42:19am

Day 2 as the GOP's nominee for the Senate, and he's already in damage control mode. But hey, he tied his own shoelaces together...now he's got nowhere to go except up...having fallen flat on his face in less than 24 hours.

I'm guessing he has discovered an army of GOP strategists waiting on his doorstep this morning with a list of appropriate talking points to get him through the next week or two.

11 Nick Morgan  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:43:13am

re: #9 JasonA

I find Rand Paul lacking in moral clarity...


But he has moral flexibility.

12 Reginald Perrin  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:43:19am
Paul also says his appearance on the Maddow show was a “mistake,” which is indisputably true.

His mistake was not answering the question Ms Maddow asked him five times.

13 Vambo  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:43:32am

re: #8 Cineaste

Bill Clinton splices a grammatical hair about whether he slept with someone and he gets torn to bits and impeached.

Rand Paul splices a grammatical hair about whether segregation should have been ended and he gets cheered.

Good bye Right, have fun on that ship you're all on. Watch out as you sail over the horizon, the earth is flat, ya' know? /

*head smack*

Bill Clinton lied about sex, and a liar is a liar. ///

14 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:43:45am

re: #4 Charles

I'm sure his handlers read him the riot act after that.

I just wish they'd given him a day or two longer off leash so we could get some choice comments defending his position from the likes of Beck, Palin, Bachmann, etc...

15 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:44:02am

re: #10 darthstar

Day 2 as the GOP's nominee for the Senate, and he's already in damage control mode. But hey, he tied his own shoelaces together...now he's got nowhere to go except up...having fallen flat on his face in less than 24 hours.

I'm guessing he has discovered an army of GOP strategists waiting on his doorstep this morning with a list of appropriate talking points to get him through the next week or two.

"We are left with only one choice. Blame the liberal media!"

/Clearly Rand Paul is the victim of a liberal witch hunt.

//

16 cliffster  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:44:10am

re: #7 Gus 802

"I can see the Mason Dixon line from my backyard." -- Rand Paul

you just made me choke on my latte

17 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:44:49am

re: #14 darthstar

I just wish they'd given him a day or two longer off leash so we could get some choice comments defending his position from the likes of Beck, Palin, Bachmann, etc...

I can only take incoherent ramblings about Boston in the 1840s for so long.

18 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:44:52am

re: #16 cliffster

you just made me choke on my latte

Elitist.
/

19 Cineaste  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:44:54am

re: #13 Vambo

If only Bill had said that he hired Monica to 'carry his bags'.

20 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:45:17am

re: #16 cliffster

you just made me choke on my latte

Latte? You reading the New York Times with that?

//

21 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:45:24am

re: #19 Cineaste

If only Bill had said that he hired Monica to 'carry his bags'.

Or was hiking the Appalachians.

22 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:46am

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Or was hiking the Appalachians.

I was just amazed to discover just how far south that trail goes.
/

23 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:47:29am

I don't know. I watched the Maddow piece this morning and thought he had the look of a man painfully aware of the conflict between what he knew was morally right (discrimination is bad, whether public or private) and his political principles (the government should interfere in private affairs as little as possible).

He seems like an intelligent guy, but maybe it's an issue he has never truly been forced to struggle with or think about. His instinct was to grab for his anti-government principles, without first considering the ethical issues involved.

Which, now that I think about it, is not a bad description of the entire Tea Party movement.

24 Cineaste  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:47:56am

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Or was hiking the Appalachians.

Or that he just had an unusually wide stance.

25 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:48:35am

re: #22 Varek Raith

I was just amazed to discover just how far south that trail goes.
/

It's a painstaking and arduous task that seems to go on and on forever, and just when you think things are going your way, nothing happens.

26 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:48:42am

White supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain is defending Rand Paul, naturally. He says Rachel Maddow is an "intellectual terrorist."

27 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:49:02am

re: #23 gehazi

I don't know. I watched the Maddow piece this morning and thought he had the look of a man painfully aware of the conflict between what he knew was morally right (discrimination is bad, whether public or private) and his political principles (the government should interfere in private affairs as little as possible).

He seems like an intelligent guy, but maybe it's an issue he has never truly been forced to struggle with or think about. His instinct was to grab for his anti-government principles, without first considering the ethical issues involved.

Which, now that I think about it, is not a bad description of the entire Tea Party movement.

This completely conflicts with his social conservatism.

28 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:50:13am

re: #26 Charles

White supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain is defending Rand Paul, naturally. He says Rachel Maddow is an "intellectual terrorist."

Well, she was certainly proficient in throwing getaclue bombs at this fool Rand.
/

29 boxhead  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:50:15am

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There is a part of me which can't help but want to see Samuel L Jackson walk in, pimp slap Rand and say "Yes or no Motherfucker!"

LOL You just made me choke on my Miller High Life...

30 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:50:16am

re: #26 Charles

White supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain is defending Rand Paul, naturally. He says Rachel Maddow is an "intellectual terrorist."

Stupid media axin' questions an' stuff grumble grumble...

31 cliffster  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:50:19am

re: #20 Gus 802

Latte? You reading the New York Times with that?

//

Field and Stream. I'm a walking enigma.

32 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:50:22am

re: #26 Charles

White supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain is defending Rand Paul, naturally. He says Rachel Maddow is an "intellectual terrorist."

Two words I will never be called. Heh.

33 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:50:22am

Dr. Rand should have is eyes checked.

And then the thingy that connects them to the brain. And then the brain.

Something's haywire, that's for sure. His father the gynecologist is probably no help here.

Maybe Ross Perot could be hired to get under the hood and have a look.

34 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:50:56am

re: #27 Varek Raith

This completely conflicts with his social conservatism.

Get government out of your business and into your home.

35 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:51:11am

re: #33 Cato the Elder

Dr. Rand should have is eyes checked.

And then the thingy that connects them to the brain. And then the brain.

Something's haywire, that's for sure. His father the gynecologist is probably no help here.

Maybe Ross Perot could be hired to get under the hood and have a look.

I hereby declare May 21st "Draw Rand Paul Day."

//

36 wrenchwench  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:51:14am

re: #26 Charles

White supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain is defending Rand Paul, naturally. He says Rachel Maddow is an "intellectual terrorist."

I can see him as "intellectually terrorized." By a second grader.

37 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:51:22am

re: #33 Cato the Elder

Dr. Rand should have is eyes checked.

And then the thingy that connects them to the brain. And then the brain.

Something's haywire, that's for sure. His father the gynecologist is probably no help here.

Maybe Ross Perot could be hired to get under the hood and have a look.

Can't we just have Bill Frist watch the Maddow piece?

38 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:52:22am

re: #27 Varek Raith

This completely conflicts with his social conservatism.

Yes, and?

39 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:52:48am

Hahahahahahaha
It was a "mistake" because Maddow made him look like a fool.
(and he can go on to be interviewed by as many safe people like Laura or Beck as he wants BUT the interview from last night will live on. I guess what happened last night is why Lynn Chaney won't go on Rachael's show.)

Why was it so damn hard to say NO when Maddow asked him to if he would vote to repeal the civil rights art?

40 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:53:57am

re: #38 gehazi

Yes, and?

...nothing else.
It amuses me to see those who say "limited government" so hellbent on legislating what goes on in our bedrooms.

41 ShaunP  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:54:22am

re: #23 gehazi

...He seems like an intelligent guy, but maybe it's an issue he has never truly been forced to struggle with or think about. His instinct was to grab for his anti-government principles, without first considering the ethical issues involved...

If you said that about the NPR interview, I might have agreed with you. He was pretty vague there.

In the Maddow interview, he went into detail about the 10 parts of the act and how he agreed with nine of them. Seemed very well versed in the CRA and why he was conflicted, but couldn't say yes or no to what should have been a gimme...

42 Renaissance_Man  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:54:25am

re: #23 gehazi

I don't know. I watched the Maddow piece this morning and thought he had the look of a man painfully aware of the conflict between what he knew was morally right (discrimination is bad, whether public or private) and his political principles (the government should interfere in private affairs as little as possible).

He seems like an intelligent guy, but maybe it's an issue he has never truly been forced to struggle with or think about. His instinct was to grab for his anti-government principles, without first considering the ethical issues involved.

Which, now that I think about it, is not a bad description of the entire Tea Party movement.

I like this analysis.

I do think, however, that he is all too aware that his support depends heavily on never, ever, publicly deviating from the core principles of the radical cult that supports him. And he knows full well that to agree with Rachel that 'yes, in some cases civil rights do trump property rights, even if the government is involved' would only send a confusing message to his supporters. They don't want to hear that. They want to hear 'government is always bad'.

That's why on Laura Ingraham's show he can, paradoxically, actually agree that civil rights are settled rights. Because firstly, Laura won't probe him on this question further, and will allow him to frame it in whatever way he likes. And secondly, because he can then follow it up unchallenged with the canard of 'the liberal media is out to get me', and his supporters can relax, because they had another of their core G-spots touched with that meme too.

'Government is always bad, liberals are always bad, all is well with the world. Rand Paul!'

43 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:54:30am

re: #39 webevintage

Why was it so damn hard to say NO when Maddow asked him to if he would vote to repeal the civil rights art?

I could swear I heard the gears in his head doing the calculations of how many votes a "no" answer would cost from his base.

44 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:54:47am

re: #40 Varek Raith

...nothing else.
It amuses me to see those who say "limited government" so hellbent on legislating what goes on in our bedrooms.

They can pry my adult novelty items from my cold dead...

45 [deleted]  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:54:56am
46 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:55:08am

re: #23 gehazi

He seems like an intelligent guy, but maybe it's an issue he has never truly been forced to struggle with or think about. His instinct was to grab for his anti-government principles, without first considering the ethical issues involved.


He has made the same statement at least 5-6 times in various interviews. He does support the right of private businesses to segregate, discriminate or refuse service to minorities. He has said so many times. He's thought about it, his mistake was speaking his mind.

47 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:55:08am

re: #26 Charles

White supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain is defending Rand Paul, naturally. He says Rachel Maddow is an "intellectual terrorist."

Yeah, that's the problem with smart chicks....
I bet she'll even discuss that tonight for a nice bit o' laughs.

48 cliffster  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:56:11am

re: #40 Varek Raith

...nothing else.
It amuses me to see those who say "limited government" so hellbent on legislating what goes on in our bedrooms.

I don't know Paul's position on the social issues, but I do know that what you're talking about is one of the biggest head-scratchers for me.

49 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:57:09am

Intellectual terrorism: Terrorizing butthurt idiots with facts since the beginning of time.

50 Batman  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:57:31am

politiciany: adjective
being unprincipled and just telling everyone what they want to hear.
Despite being considered the outsider candidate, Rand Paul is perphaps the most politiciany politician ever.

51 boxhead  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:57:53am

re: #48 cliffster

I don't know Paul's position on the social issues, but I do know that what you're talking about is one of the biggest head-scratchers for me.

It is simply to attract the Christian Right.. :p

52 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:58:00am

re: #49 Varek Raith

Intellectual terrorism: Terrorizing butthurt idiots with facts since the beginning of time.

Put it on a bumper sticker. You'll be rich!!

53 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:58:20am

re: #46 Killgore Trout

He has made the same statement at least 5-6 times in various interviews. He does support the right of private businesses to segregate, discriminate or refuse service to minorities. He has said so many times. He's thought about it, his mistake was speaking his mind.

That he made these statements before is what makes the inevitable focus on Maddow even more ridiculous. Rand Pauls's stance has already been established -- well before his appearance on Maddow.

54 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:59:39am

Paul jumps out to a 25-point lead in KY Senate race
by Ed Morrissey

Even if the Democrats continue to attack Paul as an extremist or nut, which has already begun, it’s going to take a lot of erosion to bring Paul down to Conway’s low favorability ratings.
....
Paul’s challenge to Barack Obama to campaign in Kentucky was a smart move, according to the poll’s internals. Obama has a deeply underwater job approval, 36/63, with a majority of likely voters strongly disapproving of his performance. Except for the youngest voters, every age demographic has a strong majority disapproving; among independents, it’s 31/65. And the youngest voters are overwhelmingly supporting Paul, 58/32. Nineteen percent of black voters strongly disapprove of Obama, and 88% of “other” ethnicities also strongly disapprove.

It’s still early in Kentucky, but the internals show that one of the nominees is a fringe, marginal candidate. It’s just not the Republican.


Of course he's relying on a bogus Rassmussen poll.

55 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 10:59:42am

re: #53 Gus 802

That he made these statements before is what makes the inevitable focus on Maddow even more ridiculous. Rand Pauls's stance has already been established -- well before his appearance on Maddow.

And he still won the primary?

Yikes.

56 Renaissance_Man  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:00:05am

re: #48 cliffster

I don't know Paul's position on the social issues, but I do know that what you're talking about is one of the biggest head-scratchers for me.

It's simple. The one legitimate role of government is to protect the nation from enemies, both foreign and domestic. Liberals support freedom of sexual expression. This means that freedom of sexual expression is wrong, because liberals support it. Government is allowed to act in this case, because protecting the nation from liberals is just and good.

At least one Redstate blogger has been known to ask 'it's war, so when can we start shooting back at liberals?', but I suspect that most of them would be relatively happy if the government simply passed laws to safeguard the nation and its morals from liberals.

57 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:00:07am

re: #55 JasonA

And he still won the primary?

Yikes.

See #54.

58 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:00:12am

Against the day when the Pauls and their fellow pols and pals repeal the ADA, I'm training Haku to piss on command so I can have him do it on the shoes of business owners who refuse to admit him.

The command word shall be dracarys.

59 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:01:12am

re: #53 Gus 802

That he made these statements before is what makes the inevitable focus on Maddow even more ridiculous. Rand Pauls's stance has already been established -- well before his appearance on Maddow.

Yup, and they can pull this gimmick on his all day long in a variety of ways. Just ask Rand if he feels the Civil War was justified and he'll instantly stick his foot in his mouth. He can't help it.

60 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:01:27am

re: #57 Gus 802

See #54.

I know, I know... yeesh. Depressing stuff, even if it is Rasmussen.

61 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:01:37am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Yup, and they can pull this gimmick on his all day long in a variety of ways. Just ask Rand if he feels the Civil War was justified and he'll instantly stick his foot in his mouth. He can't help it.

It's genetic.

62 Nick Morgan  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:03:20am

re: #58 Cato the Elder

Do you think anyone would try to repeal the ADA? Even a libertarian?

63 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:03:21am

Its freaking 2010...
I'd thought we would be long past this nonsense...
:(

64 Guanxi88  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:03:29am

re: #58 Cato the Elder

Against the day when the Pauls and their fellow pols and pals repeal the ADA, I'm training Haku to piss on command so I can have him do it on the shoes of business owners who refuse to admit him.

The command word shall be dracarys.

I've often thought you'd do well with one of those miniature pit ponies, trained as a service animal.

One well-placed hoof......

65 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:04:00am

re: #63 Varek Raith

It's freaking 2010...
I'd thought we would be long past this nonsense...
:(

Preview hates me.

66 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:04:14am

re: #53 Gus 802

That he made these statements before is what makes the inevitable focus on Maddow even more ridiculous. Rand Pauls's stance has already been established -- well before his appearance on Maddow.

Right.
It is not like she just decided to just ask him about civil rights out of the blue.
Maddow does not do "gotcha" interviews...except that people act like it was a "gotcha" when they get their shit thrown back at them.
I'm surprised we are not hearing how "ambushed" Dr. Paul last night...

67 Reginald Perrin  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:04:19am

It appears that Rand Paul isn't really a libertarian, at least not when it applies to abortion.


I would support legislation, a Sanctity of Life Amendment, establishing the principle that life begins at conception. This legislation would define life at conception in law, as a scientific statement.

LINK

Rand Paul obviously has the same respect for rigorous scientific method as do all extreme right-wingers.

That is to say, none

68 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:04:39am

re: #46 Killgore Trout

He has made the same statement at least 5-6 times in various interviews. He does support the right of private businesses to segregate, discriminate or refuse service to minorities. He has said so many times. He's thought about it, his mistake was speaking his mind.

Didn't he say something at the beginning of the Maddow piece about how he didn't know a lot about the Civil Rights Act, since it was all the way back in 1964?

See #42 on how he would never be probed on this issue elsewhere. They expect him to make noise about government interference in private life, and not to question what the actual consequences would be in such a society. If he's lived his entire life in this kind of political bubble (not an uncommon thing!), who's to say anyone ever has challenged him like Maddow did? His political culture is not one in which the protection of the oppressed matters much at all, to the extent that it isn't even worth thinking about.

Keep in mind, that even if I'm right, it doesn't excuse any of what he said. Ignorance is still ignorance, whether it is willful or not.

69 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:04:48am

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They can pry my adult novelty items from my cold dead...

Sounds like you'll die with a smile on yur face.

70 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:05:15am

Paulapolooza

Rasmussen had shown a particularly large house effect in this race. Whereas the Pollster.com trendline of all non-Rasmussen polls had shown Paul ahead by just 1 point, Rasmussen's trendline had him up by 15, even prior to this poll being released.
....
We've discussed before how Rasmussen's polling seems to be especially favorable to tea-party-type candidates. The makeup of the Tea Party is somewhat amorphous and therefore it may be hard to correct for self-selection bias by means of ordinary demographic weighting.
...
.... there are things that Rasmussen could do to quell the criticism from here and other quarters. For one thing, they could engage in a more earnest dialog about their methodology. For instance, they've said that their use of a likely voter model is the reason for their house effect, but a more careful examination reveals that it doesn't suffice to explain the discrepancy.

And, as Markos Moulitsas pointed out yesterday, Rasmussen has engaged in a strange disappearing act this year when it was actually time to put their necks on the line and poll races close to election day.

71 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:05:21am

re: #64 Guanxi88

I've often thought you'd do well with one of those miniature pit ponies, trained as a service animal.

One well-placed hoof...

I could train a Xenomorph as a service...creature for Cato.
Image: xenomorph.jpg
:)

72 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:06:41am

re: #67 Reginald Perrin

It appears that Rand Paul isn't really a libertarian, at least not when it applies to abortion.

LINK

Rand Paul obviously has the same respect for rigorous scientific method as do all extreme right-wingers.

That is to say, none

I've notice a lot of Libertarians seem to be anti-science.
*shakes head in shame*

73 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:07:23am

re: #67 Reginald Perrin

It appears that Rand Paul isn't really a libertarian, at least not when it applies to abortion.

LINK

Rand Paul obviously has the same respect for rigorous scientific method as do all extreme right-wingers.

That is to say, none

Yeah, I was blissfully unaware that scientific facts were created by US legislation.

74 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:07:29am

re: #72 Varek Raith

I've notice a lot of Libertarians seem to be anti-science.
*shakes head in shame*

Show me where the Founding Fathers mentioned science in the Constitution!///

75 Guanxi88  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:07:58am

re: #71 Varek Raith

I could train a Xenomorph as a service...creature for Cato.
Image: xenomorph.jpg
:)

Looks nifty, but I imagine the feed requirements for such a thing would cause Cato to de-populate whole districts monthly.

76 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:07:59am

re: #72 Varek Raith

I've noticed that a lot of Libertarians seem to be anti-science.
*shakes head in shame*

Good grief. I can't freaking spell today.

77 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:08:20am

re: #68 gehazi

He's on record about a half dozen times making the same statement. Even on the Ingram interview he approaches the same thing. He says that institutions that receive government money should be barred from racist discrimination. Private institutions such as businesses and restaurants are not included.

78 Nick Morgan  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:08:25am

Apropos of nothing, Megan Kelly of Fox annoys the hell out me.

79 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:08:36am

re: #71 Varek Raith

I could train a Xenomorph as a service...creature for Cato.
Image: xenomorph.jpg
:)

Don't be silly. Cato would rather have a lictor

Image: herotyr2.jpg

80 Obdicut  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:08:42am

re: #75 Guanxi88

They're silicone-based.

81 wrenchwench  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:08:53am

Dnar Luap's positions on Immigration:

I do not support amnesty. Those who come here should respect our laws. I support legal immigration and recognize that the country has been enriched by those who seek the freedom to make a life for themselves.

Immigrants should meet the current requirements, which should be enforced and updated. I realize that subsidizing something creates more of it, and do not think the taxpayer should be forced to pay for welfare, medical care and other expenses for illegal immigrants. Once the subsidies for illegal immigration are removed, the problem will likely become far less common.

I support local solutions to illegal immigration as protected by the 10th amendment. I support making English the official language of all documents and contracts.

Millions crossing our border without our knowledge constitutes a clear threat to our nation’s security. I will work to secure our borders immediately. My plans include an underground electric fence, with helicopter stations to respond quickly to breaches of the border. Instead of closing military bases at home and renting space in Europe, I am open to the construction of bases to protect our border.

[emphasis added]

No medical care for illegals. Public health crisis, anyone?

Underground fence and helicopters. WTF?

82 Cineaste  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:08:58am

re: #26 Charles

White supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain is defending Rand Paul, naturally. He says Rachel Maddow is an "intellectual terrorist."

What does that even mean?

Terrorism, in essence, is taking an action to intimidate someone.

She commits acts of intelligence to intimidate RSM & Rand? Isn't that just called being smart and liking to debate?

83 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:09:09am

re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don't be silly. Cato would rather have a lictor

Image: herotyr2.jpg

Hah, that's awesome.

84 Fozzie Bear  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:09:14am

re: #68 gehazi

Smart economic policy calls for countercyclical spending. Spend more when the economy contracts, pay down debt when it expands. I don't know how many times this has to be re-proven before fiscal utopians (conservatives) see the light.

85 Olsonist  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:09:46am

re: #76 Varek Raith

Good grief. I can't freaking spell today.

Dude, you need to chill out before Charles gives you a time out.

86 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:09:46am

re: #81 wrenchwench

Dnar Luap's positions on Immigration:

[emphasis added]

No medical care for illegals. Public health crisis, anyone?

Underground fence and helicopters. WTF?

No blimps?

87 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:09:56am

re: #83 Varek Raith

Hah, that's awesome.

it works on 2 levels. I'm quite proud of it myself.

88 Guanxi88  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:10:14am

re: #80 Obdicut

They're silicone-based.

Raised on the Bunny Ranch, no doubt.

89 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:10:27am
"I think what's important in this debate is not getting into any specific 'gotcha' on this, but asking the question 'What about freedom of speech?' Should we limit speech from people we find abhorrent? Should we limit racists from speaking? I don't want to be associated with those people, but I also don't want to limit their speech in any way in the sense that we tolerate boorish and uncivilized behavior because that's one of the things that freedom requires," Rand Paul said.

Short version: I hate Nazi's, but give me your money. I love black people, I just don't want to white people who give me money to have to eat dinner with them.

90 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:10:53am

re: #76 Varek Raith

Good grief. I can't freaking spell today.

As long as you can answer "no" to the following question you're a winner today.

"Should we repeal the Civil Rights Act?"

91 Obdicut  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:11:00am

re: #86 Cannadian Club Akbar

Underground electric blimps, too.

92 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:11:05am

re: #85 Olsonist

Dude, you need to chill out before Charles gives you a time out.

I know! Need to tread very carefully...
/
:)

93 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:11:24am

re: #77 Killgore Trout

He's on record about a half dozen times making the same statement. Even on the Ingram interview he approaches the same thing. He says that institutions that receive government money should be barred from racist discrimination. Private institutions such as businesses and restaurants are not included.

I understand that. What I'm saying is that he is instinctively (and abstractly, to use his words) anti-government, but doesn't actually think about the actual, practical racism that would ensue.

It doesn't make much sense to me to think in such a way, but I see that attitude all around me, and I thought I saw it in him. And it's no excuse.

94 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:11:32am

re: #80 Obdicut

They're silicone-based.

Plus, they can feed off of electicity by simply being in proximity to a power source, according to some sources at least.

95 brennant  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:11:44am

re: #86 Cannadian Club Akbar

Did anyone else notice his website looks sorta Obamaish in design?

96 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:11:54am

re: #91 Obdicut

Underground electric blimps, too.

Frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads!

97 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:13:07am

re: #77 Killgore Trout

He's on record about a half dozen times making the same statement. Even on the Ingram interview he approaches the same thing. He says that institutions that receive government money should be barred from racist discrimination. Private institutions such as businesses and restaurants are not included.

Perfectly reasonable. If the restaurant owner doesn't want to serve black people, you can eat somewhere else. If the restaurant owner kills your kid with salmonella, you can always eat somewhere else. See, life is all about the freedom to choose.

...well, except for the chicks and the girlymen.

98 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:13:18am

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Paulapolooza

From the Rassmussen poll:

Since winning the primary, Paul has gained ground among Republican voters and is now supported by 82% of the GOP faithful. That figure is up from 69% earlier. Paul also earns 73% support from unaffiliated voters at this time. That, too, reflects a huge bounce following the primary victory (see full demographic crosstabs.)

Conway, on the other hand, attracts support from just 59% of Democrats. Most conservative Democrats currently prefer Paul over the Democratic nominee. Conservative Democrats represent just under 15% of all Kentucky voters.

Polling data at this stage of the game isn't very significant.

99 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:13:25am

re: #96 Mad Al-Jaffee

Frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads!

Attached to blimps so that they can fly. Blimps coated in gold. Blimps coated in gold that also drop non-hybrid seeds.

100 Daniel Ballard  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:15:38am

re: #33 Cato the Elder

I think his VP pick would be the one to peek. If he is still alive anyway. Cato, missed your posts for a few days, how ya been?

101 ArchangelMichael  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:16:07am

re: #99 Varek Raith

Attached to blimps so that they can fly. Blimps coated in gold. Blimps coated in gold that also drop non-hybrid seeds.

He's the heir to the throne of the Ronulan Star Empire too so there should be a Bird of Prey painted on the bottom of the blimp. In this case the Eagle from American Gold Eagle coins.

102 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:16:31am

re: #93 gehazi

I understand that. What I'm saying is that he is instinctively (and abstractly, to use his words) anti-government, but doesn't actually think about the actual, practical racism that would ensue.

It doesn't make much sense to me to think in such a way, but I see that attitude all around me, and I thought I saw it in him. And it's no excuse.

He's a grown man whose father is a 'libertarian', not a freshman in Poli-Sci 101. He's had plenty of time to consider the ramifications of the shit that flows from his mouth and he owns every word, Libertarian be damned (damn you Dave Weigle!)

103 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:17:34am

re: #67 Reginald Perrin

It appears that Rand Paul isn't really a libertarian, at least not when it applies to abortion.

LINK

Rand Paul obviously has the same respect for rigorous scientific method as do all extreme right-wingers.

That is to say, none

No other way to be and win in Kentucky. A candidate who was not pro-life could not win there.

104 Guanxi88  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:17:47am

The Pauls are like catnip for crazies. Enough said, and said previously by others better than I could say it.

105 Locker  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:18:13am

re: #96 Mad Al-Jaffee

Frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads!

Sea bass? Are they ill-tempered?

106 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:18:19am

re: #102 Jeff In Ohio

Libertarian apologists be damned!
PIMF

107 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:18:21am

Ah. Here it is. Been waiting for the official victim card to be played.

From the NY Times, Paul’s Views on Civil Rights Cause a Stir

Update: Mr. Paul’s campaign issued a statement this morning in response to the uproar over his remarks. In it, he said that he supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the landmark anti-discrimination law. :

“I believe we should work to end all racism in American society and staunchly defend the inherent rights of every person,” he said. “I have clearly stated in prior interviews that I abhor racial discrimination and would have worked to end segregation. Even though this matter was settled when I was 2, and no serious people are seeking to revisit it except to score cheap political points, I unequivocally state that I will not support any efforts to repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964.”

Mr. Paul disputed the claim by opponents that he would support repealing the Civil Rights Act.

“These attacks prove one thing for certain: the liberal establishment is desperate to keep leaders like me out of office, and we are sure to hear more wild, dishonest smears during this campaign,” he said.

Yep, it's not Rand Pauls doing. It's all the "liberal establishments" fault. When in doubt, blame the media.

How Nixonian.

108 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:18:36am

'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists

Scientists in the US have succeeded in developing the first synthetic living cell.

The researchers constructed a bacterium's "genetic software" and transplanted it into a host cell.

The resulting microbe then looked and behaved like the species "dictated" by the synthetic DNA.

The advance, published in Science, has been hailed as a scientific landmark, but critics say there are dangers posed by synthetic organisms.

The researchers hope eventually to design bacterial cells that will produce medicines and fuels and even absorb greenhouse gases.

109 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:18:41am

re: #101 ArchangelMichael

Rock, Flag and Eagle!

110 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:18:58am

re: #74 JasonA

Show me where the Founding Fathers mentioned science in the Constitution!///

Article I, Section 8 "Powers of Congress"

"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;"

111 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:19:26am

re: #82 Cineaste

What does that even mean?

Terrorism, in essence, is taking an action to intimidate someone.

She commits acts of intelligence to intimidate RSM & Rand? Isn't that just called being smart and liking to debate?

Smart women terrorize Robert Stacey McCain....

112 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:19:27am

re: #58 Cato the Elder

Against the day when the Pauls and their fellow pols and pals repeal the ADA, I'm training Haku to piss on command so I can have him do it on the shoes of business owners who refuse to admit him.

The command word shall be dracarys.

Hopefully you could also train him to piss on Islamist cabbies who refuse to admit working dogs.

113 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:19:33am

re: #62 Nick Morgan

Do you think anyone would try to repeal the ADA? Even a libertarian?

Have you been paying attention? Rand-Boy called the ADA into question along with the Civil Rights Act.

Here's what you have to know about Libertarians: say any of the magic words or phrases "gold", "race", "property", "pot", "Fed", "states' rights", "IRS", "war", "Israel", "oil", or "the environment" and you'll soon have them tripping all over themselves, so tangled and tied-up in tongue contradictions it would be funny if they weren't so earnest about it.

What I don't get is why their opponents in the media don't hang their "legalize marijuana" stance around their necks every time one of them wins a primary. I mean, I'm for legal pot, too, but most Americans aren't (thanks to a century of brainwashing), and if you can nail 'em with that, well, all's fair in politics.

All of the "young libertarians" I know personally are victims of reading Ayn Rand when they were young and pimply and couldn't buy a date with a crack whore. And they now divide themselves into the brilliant Asperger's victims who still can't talk to girls and the stoners who can't get it up for them.

In fact, for far less than what any regular consulting firm would charge, I'll go out on the Hopkins campus and interview all the Paulians I can find, then edit it down to a thirty-second spot that will blow any November chances for Ron or Rand out of the water.

Or we could just use these guys.

114 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:19:47am

re: #29 boxhead

LOL You just made me choke on my Miller High Life...

Mmm...the champagne of beers...another fuckin' elitist.
///

115 Locker  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:19:49am

re: #97 Jeff In Ohio

Perfectly reasonable. If the restaurant owner doesn't want to serve black people, you can eat somewhere else. If the restaurant owner kills your kid with salmonella, you can always eat somewhere else. See, life is all about the freedom to choose.

...well, except for the chicks and the girlymen.

Free markets for all! Woop woop!

My restaurant won't serve Teabaggers or Dallas Cowboys fans, the civil rights act be damned!

116 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:20:07am

re: #107 Gus 802

Ah. Here it is. Been waiting for the official victim card to be played.

From the NY Times, Paul’s Views on Civil Rights Cause a Stir

Yep, it's not Rand Pauls doing. It's all the "liberal establishments" fault. When in doubt, blame the media.

How Nixonian.

Notice how he's desperately trying to reframe the whole thing as "my opponents say I want to repeal the Civil Rights Act." As far as I know, NO ONE has accused him of taking that position.

117 What, me worry?  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:20:29am

re: #9 JasonA

I find Rand Paul lacking in moral clarity...

I just popped in, but all of this has been bothering me since last night's discussion so if you all have covered it, I apologize. I haven't had time to read through the thread.

Is Rand a racist? Someone posted some quotes last night from Stormfront and one of them said something to the effect (paraphrasing), "If I were a politician, I'd lie until I got into office, tell them I support Israel, I support Black people, whatever until I could get in office and then I'd pass all the laws I could."

Is that what Rand's doing? In the Maddow vid, he says, "I do not support institutional racism", however, he does support businesses discriminating against people they don't want to serve. So how does he think we conquered institutional racism? Rand is AGAINST institutional racism but FOR reinstituting the practice that actually ended it?

I think he's a liar and I think he's a racist, because none of what he said in the Maddow vid makes any sense.

brb....

118 Nadnerb  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:21:08am

This has really spun me-how this guy is now a hero to certain people and is seen as the "white" shining hope. I saw Maddow interview him last night and I couldn't believe how infuriating he is, dodging the question and rambling on and on like a nouveau Pat Buchanan, revising history like a garbled-brain fool. This guy is not a responsible pragmatist. He is a total reactionary who belongs in the pasture like ol Buchanan. AND to top it all off, he's appeared on Alex Jones' shithouse-rat radio show, completing the bowl of lunatic stew. The mainstreaming of Jones is very disturbing-we've seen his acolyte Judge Napolitano on Fox many, many times and I think he's filled in for Glenn Beck.

I don't care if they oppose Obama, I don't want any part of the crazy. The lack of attention paid to this is appalling. Maddow should do a segment on Ron Paul/Rand Paul and their connections to 9/11 conspiracy theories, white supremacist organizations and other Alex Jones-type paranoia.

I'm renewing my drivers' license soon and will be re-registering to vote as an independent (decline to state). Not that it matters, but I am sick of this shit.

119 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:21:09am

re: #29 boxhead

LOL You just made me choke on my Miller High Life...

By the way, Miller High Life is one of my guilty-pleasure beers when I find myself in a neighborhood bar.

120 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:22:28am

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

No other way to be and win in Kentucky. A candidate who was not pro-life could not win there.

Speaking of which... Attorney General Jack Conway (KY)

Indicate which principles you support (if any) concerning abortion.
a) Abortions should always be illegal.
b) Abortions should always be legally available.
X c) Abortions should be legal only within the first trimester of pregnancy.
d) Abortions should be legal when the pregnancy resulted from incest or rape.
e) Abortions should be legal when the life of the woman is endangered.
f) Eliminate public funding for abortions and public funding of organizations that advocate or perform abortions.
X g) Other or expanded principles
Abortion should be rare, but safe and legal.

I know I should take these surveys with a shaker of salt, but shouldn't E be a no-brainer for a Dem candidate? Guess not in Kentucky...

121 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:22:50am

re: #106 Jeff In Ohio

Libertarian apologists be damned!
PIMF

Who's defending him? I'm certainly not.

122 Obdicut  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:22:51am

re: #113 Cato the Elder

Marijuana doesn't affect potency, just fertility. That's the only nit to be picked in your post, though.

123 Fozzie Bear  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:23:02am

re: #107 Gus 802

"Even though this matter was settled when I was 2, and no serious people are seeking to revisit it except to score cheap political points, I unequivocally state that I will not support any efforts to repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964."

... Which is why he decided to unequivocally equivocate on the issue when asked directly, several times.

When will the "liberal media" meme die? Asking a direct question is now an "attack" by the "liberal establishment"?

Nearly half the country is off the rails insane. I think it's entirely possible that someone like Rand to could be elected in the current climate. Never underestimate the stupidity of the majority (not the entirety) of middle America.

124 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:23:09am

re: #108 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists

The researchers hope eventually to design bacterial cells that will produce medicines and fuels and even absorb greenhouse gases.

We already have organisms that will do that. They are called "plants." Soon, we may see the Beeb breathlessly announce the creation of organisms that can make comfy fibers for trendy clothes and such.

125 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:23:51am

re: #116 Charles

Notice how he's desperately trying to reframe the whole thing as "my opponents say I want to repeal the Civil Rights Act." As far as I know, NO ONE has accused him of taking that position.

Yep. It was a rather specific question and he answered almost specifically on several occasion. Rand Paul believes that it is the right of a private business to discriminate. He has released no statement which either reverses this opinion or any clarification.

126 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:24:07am

re: #118 Nadnerb

I don't care if they oppose Obama, I don't want any part of the crazy. The lack of attention paid to this is appalling. Maddow should do a segment on Ron Paul/Rand Paul and their connections to 9/11 conspiracy theories, white supremacist organizations and other Alex Jones-type paranoia.

She probably will.
Once she gets her "intellectual" terrorist claws into someone she has a habit of diggin' deeper and deeper...I'm sure we will also see a segment at some point about his support from the Stormfront type folks.

127 palomino  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:24:37am

Paul is a disingenuous jackass. It's not just the "loony left" that has a problem when someone can't answer affirmatively to, "Would you have supported the 1964 Civil Rights Act?"

Actually it's pretty much the opposite: only the far far right would even hedge on an answer.

128 ShaunP  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:25:14am

re: #125 Gus 802

Yep. It was a rather specific question and he answered almost specifically on several occasion. Rand Paul believes that it is the right of a private business to discriminate. He has released no statement which either reverses this opinion or any clarification.

I won't hold my breath for that one...

129 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:25:57am

re: #115 Locker

Free markets for all! Woop woop!

My restaurant won't serve Teabaggers or Dallas Cowboys fans, the civil rights act be damned!

"Aggies Not Welcome!"
"Attention Paulians: Don't let the sun set on your head in this here town"

130 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:26:05am

re: #123 Fozzie Bear


When will the "liberal media" meme die? Asking a direct question is now an "attack" by the "liberal establishment"?

Well according to RSM it is "intellectual terrorism"....

(really I may never get tired of that new whine.)

131 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:26:14am

I slept like absolute shit last night.

And one reason I slept like absolute shit is I kept waking up, which means I was very aware of my dreams as opposed to a good night's sleep where you generally just catch a general sense of what was going on.

And my dreams? They were all of RAND PAUL as some sort of cheezy 1980's dark-future Orwellian American Emperor who was on every TV channel with his stupid voice and his dumb hair and had a gestapo kinda like the Vistors in V, with red jumpsuits, standing with guns on every corner that my friends and I had to hide from. I am not even kidding.

What a dick! He's even messing with my dreams!

132 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:26:18am

re: #123 Fozzie Bear

"Even though this matter was settled when I was 2, and no serious people are seeking to revisit it except to score cheap political points, I unequivocally state that I will not support any efforts to repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964."

... Which is why he decided to unequivocally equivocate on the issue when asked directly, several times.

When will the "liberal media" meme die? Asking a direct question is now an "attack" by the "liberal establishment"?

Nearly half the country is off the rails insane. I think it's entirely possible that someone like Rand to could be elected in the current climate. Never underestimate the stupidity of the majority (not the entirety) of middle America.

I make it a rule to never underestimate anyone's stupidity. How soon before we see Palin/Paul 2012 posters? I dearly want to believe no one's that stupid, but that's just wishful thinking.

133 Nick Morgan  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:26:20am

re: #113 Cato the Elder

"Have you been paying attention? "

Yes.

134 Fozzie Bear  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:26:27am

re: #127 palomino

Paul is a disingenuous jackass. It's not just the "loony left" that has a problem when someone can't answer affirmatively to, "Would you have supported the 1964 Civil Rights Act?"

Actually it's pretty much the opposite: only the far far right GOP would even hedge on an answer.

FTFY. Let's not pretend there's a difference anymore. I'll take it back when the party leadership throws him under the bus. I don't expect i'll have to take it back.

135 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:27:19am

re: #131 WindUpBird

I slept well last night but woke up with a hangover. Damn mid-week birthday!

136 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:27:57am

re: #135 Mad Al-Jaffee

I slept well last night but woke up with a hangover. Damn mid-week birthday!

Oh hangovers!

I get hangovers too easily, two beers will do it if it's close to bedtime :P

137 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:28:00am

re: #122 Obdicut

Marijuana doesn't affect potency, just fertility. That's the only nit to be picked in your post, though.

Oh, it affects potency, too. Or have you heard a potent argument from a stoner lately?

"Dude, like...you know, it's like...this pot, man [laughs, farts, wets pants]...this fuckin' weed...it's all, like, the colors, dude!"

Excessive drinking increases desire while decreasing ability.

Excessive bonging decreases boinking desire to the point where ability is irrelevant.

138 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:28:09am

re: #135 Mad Al-Jaffee

and happy birthday!

139 Guanxi88  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:28:13am

re: #131 WindUpBird

HA! Rand Paul's in ur hedd, messin with ur sub-conshus!

140 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:28:24am

If he's getting this worked up over Maddow what's he going to do once Jon Stewart gets back from vacation?

141 ShaunP  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:28:35am

re: #132 gehazi

I make it a rule to never underestimate anyone's stupidity. How soon before we see Palin/Paul 2012 posters? I dearly want to believe no one's that stupid, but that's just wishful thinking.

There are already t-shirts:

[Link: www.zazzle.com...]

142 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:29:59am

Q: Where would rand get this opposition to the Civil Rights Act?
A: Dad
The Trouble With Forced Integration

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD


The Civil Rights Act of 1964 gave the federal government unprecedented power over the hiring, employee relations, and customer service practices of every business in the country. The result was a massive violation of the rights of private property and contract, which are the bedrocks of free society. The federal government has no legitimate authority to infringe on the rights of private property owners to use their property as they please and to form (or not form) contracts with terms mutually agreeable to all parties. The rights of all private property owners, even those whose actions decent people find abhorrent, must be respected if we are to maintain a free society.

This expansion of federal power was based on an erroneous interpretation of the congressional power to regulate interstate commerce. The framers of the Constitution intended the interstate commerce clause to create a free trade zone among the states, not to give the federal government regulatory power over every business that has any connection with interstate commerce.

143 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:30:05am

re: #139 Guanxi88

HA! Rand Paul's in ur hedd, messin with ur sub-conshus!

He is! I dun like it :(

144 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:30:12am

Modifying bacteria? What could possibly go wrong?

In the early 1990s a European genetic engineering company was
preparing to field test and then commercialize on a major scale a
genetically engineered soil bacteria called Klebsiella planticola. The
bacteria had been tested--as it turns out in a careless and very
unscientific mannner--by scientists working for the biotech industry and
was believed to be safe for the environment. Fortunately a team of
independent scientists, headed by Dr. Elaine Ingham of Oregon State
University, decided to run their own tests on the gene-altered Klebsiella
planticola. What they discovered was not only startling, but terrifying--
the biotech industry had created a biological monster--a genetically
engineered microorganism that would kill all terrestrial plants

145 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:30:29am

re: #141 ShaunP

Yeah but that's the wrong Paul.

146 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:30:45am

re: #122 Obdicut

Marijuana doesn't affect potency, just fertility. That's the only nit to be picked in your post, though.

IIRC, it depends on how much is ingested and how often one smokes up.

147 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:30:57am

re: #116 Charles

Notice how he's desperately trying to reframe the whole thing as "my opponents say I want to repeal the Civil Rights Act." As far as I know, NO ONE has accused him of taking that position.

That won't stop him from spinning. He dug himself into a hole, and now he's frantically trying to get out. I hope he fails.

148 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:31:09am

re: #136 WindUpBird

Oh hangovers!

I get hangovers too easily, two beers will do it if it's close to bedtime :P

I didn't get to bed until after 1:00.

149 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:31:31am

re: #138 WindUpBird

and happy birthday!

Thanks!

150 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:32:53am

re: #148 Mad Al-Jaffee

I didn't get to bed until after 1:00.

For me it was 5am :D

151 subsailor68  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:33:08am

re: #145 gehazi

Yeah but that's the wrong Paul.

Heh, yeah. The right Paul is actually Paul Simon, who is writing Rand Paul's campaign song: "50 Ways to Duck and Cover".

;-)

152 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:33:14am

School bus takes wrong students on field trip
Mix-up in New Jersey sends kids on road to Six Flags park instead of class

Bus driver's name now "best bus driver ever!"

153 wrenchwench  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:33:19am

re: #116 Charles

Notice how he's desperately trying to reframe the whole thing as "my opponents say I want to repeal the Civil Rights Act." As far as I know, NO ONE has accused him of taking that position.

His Democratic opponent did. It's in the beginning of this clip.

154 Guanxi88  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:33:24am

re: #150 WindUpBird

For me it was 5am :D

Either you're in another time zone, or you know how to live

155 Fozzie Bear  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:34:18am

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

That won't stop him from spinning. He dug himself into a hole, and now he's frantically trying to get out. I hope he fails.

It doesn't matter, because I don't think it matters to his supporters. He has been speaking code for so long, it's time for him to do away with the rhetorical beard. I don't think it would repel his followers in the least, and everybody else already thinks he's nuts.

I think the numbers may play out, even given that I am correct, that he very easily could win the senate seat.

This is the "culture war", laid bare. It wasn't ever really about culture.

156 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:35:45am

re: #127 palomino

Paul is a disingenuous jackass. It's not just the "loony left" that has a problem when someone can't answer affirmatively to, "Would you have supported the 1964 Civil Rights Act?"

Actually it's pretty much the opposite: only the far far right would even hedge on an answer.

Up until yesterday Rand Paul was the crackpot with a father who is the crazy uncle of the GOP, Ron Paul. Rand was for closing GITMO; opposed to waterboarding; looking inwards for the cause of the World Trade Center attack (not unlike Ward Churchill or Rev. Wright); promoting hemp; and promoting isolationism. He was a guest on Alex Jones, and frequently promoted in places like Infowars, The Daily Paul, Stormfront (up until he released a statement in support of Israel), David Duke, and other dreg like locales of the internet.

157 Obdicut  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:35:48am

re: #146 Spare O'Lake

IIRC, it depends on how much is ingested and how often one smokes up.

You RIC. There aren't any studies showing any more than a lack of mental focus on sex after large doses of marijuana; you're still limbically able, you may be mentally uninterested because you're too damn stoned.

158 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:35:52am

re: #26 Charles

White supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain is defending Rand Paul, naturally. He says Rachel Maddow is an "intellectual terrorist."

Note to RSM: Just because you scare someone does not make you a 'terrorist'. The concept is there, you have the general idea, but merely inspiring fear, in this case because you're being called on your shit, does not an act of terror make.

159 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:35:55am

OT: Have I been living under a rock since May 10th?
http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/florida-mosque-bombed-fbi-calls-help-nation

On May 10th, a middle-aged man carried a can of gasoline and a pipe bomb into the Jacksonville Islamic Center of Northeast Florida during evening prayers and detonated it. Fortunately, there were no injuries to people, though the bomb did damage property.
160 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:36:51am

re: #155 Fozzie Bear

It doesn't matter, because I don't think it matters to his supporters. He has been speaking code for so long, it's time for him to do away with the rhetorical beard. I don't think it would repel his followers in the least, and everybody else already thinks he's nuts.

I think the numbers may play out, even given that I am correct, that he very easily could win the senate seat.

This is the "culture war", laid bare. It wasn't ever really about culture.

He may indeed win despite his gaffes. Kentucky is a conservative state, and this is an anti-Washington year. Calls to "send someone who will oppose the insiders" may well triumph over other considerations.

161 What, me worry?  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:37:11am

re: #125 Gus 802

Yep. It was a rather specific question and he answered almost specifically on several occasion. Rand Paul believes that it is the right of a private business to discriminate. He has released no statement which either reverses this opinion or any clarification.

I absolutely believe he wants to repeal the Civil Rights Act and/or the ADA. Otherwise, I can't understand how he can be against institutional racism yet support the practice that actually ended it. He's a double talker, a two-face. How can you trust a person like this?

162 What, me worry?  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:38:00am

re: #161 marjoriemoon

I absolutely believe he wants to repeal the Civil Rights Act and/or the ADA. Otherwise, I can't understand how he can be against institutional racism yet support the practice that actually ended it. He's a double talker, a two-face. How can you trust a person like this?

Ack, I'm sorry NOT SUPPORT the practice that ended it.

163 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:38:32am

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Q: Where would rand get this opposition to the Civil Rights Act?
A: Dad
The Trouble With Forced Integration

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

Remember the phrase, "You can't legislate morality"? That was the rallying call of many that opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

That would be a good question to ask junior.

164 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:39:39am

re: #153 wrenchwench

His Democratic opponent did. It's in the beginning of this clip.

Yep, that gut said that Rand Paul want's the repeal the Civil Rights Act and the ADA Act. Paul must be out of his mind to say things like that.

165 Varek Raith  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:39:50am

re: #159 JasonA

OT: Have I been living under a rock since May 10th?
http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/florida-mosque-bo mbed-fbi-calls-help-nation

WTH.
Sheesh, media reporting fail.

166 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:40:22am

re: #33 Cato the Elder

Dr. Rand should have is eyes checked.

And then the thingy that connects them to the brain. And then the brain.

Something's haywire, that's for sure. His father the gynecologist is probably no help here.

Maybe Ross Perot could be hired to get under the hood and have a look.

Welcome back Cato, I know that I can say LGF wouldn't be the same without you. (Not sure if this is your first post back but its the first one I've seen)

167 wrenchwench  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:40:27am

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Q: Where would rand get this opposition to the Civil Rights Act?
A: Dad
The Trouble With Forced Integration

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

From that piece of.....

Instead, the forced integration dictated by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 increased racial tensions while diminishing individual liberty.

[...]

July 3, 2004

What an ass.

168 ryannon  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:40:37am

re: #144 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Modifying bacteria? What could possibly go wrong?

An amazing and frightening study. A must read for those interested in the question, "what could possibly go wrong?" in the context of science.

169 Olsonist  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:40:49am

re: #161 marjoriemoon

I absolutely believe he wants to repeal the Civil Rights Act and/or the ADA. Otherwise, I can't understand how he can be against institutional racism yet support the practice that actually ended it. He's a double talker, a two-face. How can you trust a person like this?

If a politician criticizes something like the CRA or ADA, then it is fair to say that he supports repealing it, even if he never literally uses those words. Anything to the contrary is simple pedantry on his part, supporting the national discussion, not what I really meant, distorted by the Liberal Establishment, ....

170 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:40:55am

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

That won't stop him from spinning. He dug himself into a hole, and now he's frantically trying to get out. I hope he fails.

Maybe when he gets to China he'll be able to bring himself to ask for directions.

171 Guanxi88  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:41:36am

re: #170 jamesfirecat

Maybe when he gets to China he'll be able to bring himself to ask for directions.

And offer them some treasuries while he's there. Might as well get something for his trouble.

172 What, me worry?  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:41:53am

re: #169 Olsonist

If a politician criticizes something like the CRA or ADA, then it is fair to say that he supports repealing it, even if he never literally uses those words. Anything to the contrary is simple pedantry on his part, supporting the national discussion, not what I really meant, distorted by the Liberal Establishment, ...

Absolutely correct. He doesn't fool me.

173 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:41:54am

re: #159 JasonA

OT: Have I been living under a rock since May 10th?
http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/florida-mosque-bo mbed-fbi-calls-help-nation

No, that wasn't "real" terrorism and therefore not a story worthy of much media coverage.

Wait, what's the designator for sarcasm around these parts?

174 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:42:17am

The Pauls are nothing more than another would-be father-son dynasty in embryonic form. They just have a somewhat different shtick.

This explains why they can unite idealistic college students, stoners, and Nazis all under the same limp banner.

I think they have about as much chance in the long run as Ross Perot and Steve Forbes, two other gigantic phonies.

But they could well be spoilers, and Sarah Palin will probably be the next president.

175 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:43:23am

re: #170 jamesfirecat

Maybe when he gets to China he'll be able to bring himself to ask for directions.

When he get to China he'll finally learn what nasty and intrusive government really looks like.

176 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:43:43am

re: #160 Dark_Falcon

He may indeed win despite his gaffes. Kentucky is a conservative state, and this is an anti-Washington year. Calls to "send someone who will oppose the insiders" may well triumph over other considerations.

Well I try to keep hopeful. If he looses then a GOP seat goes blue (right?) And if he wins then the Senate make up stays the same (one more Republican who will vote "no" on everything Obama brings up more or less) and I look forward to seeing many clips of him on the Daily Show.

177 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:44:09am

re: #168 ryannon

An amazing and frightening study. A must read for those interested in the question, "what could possibly go wrong?" in the context of science.

But they tested it according to government standards! Sure, that was in a completely sterile environment totally unlike anything it would actually be used in, but it was tested.

178 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:44:35am

re: #163 Gus 802

Remember the phrase, "You can't legislate morality"? That was the rallying call of many that opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

That would be a good question to ask junior.

It was also used by those who opposed Prohibition. Just saying.

179 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:45:03am

re: #153 wrenchwench

His Democratic opponent did. It's in the beginning of this clip.

So... all the conservative on this thread are going to just ignore the statements in this video... Rand Paul's democrat opponent says that Paul wants to repeal the Civil Rights Act and the ADA Act... no, how do you support that?

180 Reginald Perrin  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:45:31am

re: #160 Dark_Falcon

His being an isolationist may hurt him in November if he is called out for being weak on defense and not supporting the "war on terror".

181 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:45:57am

re: #37 JasonA

Can't we just have Bill Frist watch the Maddow piece?

Be careful, his tears of sorrow may spread AIDS....

182 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:45:57am

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

It was also used by those who opposed Prohibition. Just saying.

OK. But it's well known for being used in the late 60s and into the 70s. I used to hear it all the time and the context was regarding race. It's attributable to Barry Goldwater.

183 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:46:58am

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

It was also used by those who opposed Prohibition. Just saying.

And you can't legislate morality, which is what Prohibition was about.

The CRA was not about legislating morality, it was about legislating legal rights of citizens. It's not as if it made it illegal to be a racist.

184 Olsonist  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:47:07am

re: #176 jamesfirecat

He would be replacing Jim Bunning, a tough act to follow in the crazy uncle role.

185 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:47:18am

re: #179 Walter L. Newton

So... all the conservative on this thread are going to just ignore the statements in this video... Rand Paul's democrat opponent says that Paul wants to repeal the Civil Rights Act and the ADA Act... no, how do you support that?

I say that he should retract it now that Rand Paul has made his opposition to that idea clear, and that was a throwing mud when it was still up in the air, if he ran the add after Rand Paul made it clear he doesn't favor that position then he's a slimeball/jerk/asshole who I wouldn't vote for not that I live in Kentucky....

186 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:47:55am

re: #160 Dark_Falcon

He may indeed win despite his gaffes. Kentucky is a conservative state, and this is an anti-Washington year. Calls to "send someone who will oppose the insiders" may well triumph over other considerations.

You call these "gaffs?" That sort of the same as saying Blumenthal's comments on his service in Vietnam was "misspoke."

These aren't gaffs, these are statements by a racist.

187 wrenchwench  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:48:28am

re: #179 Walter L. Newton

So... all the conservative on this thread are going to just ignore the statements in this video... Rand Paul's democrat opponent says that Paul wants to repeal the Civil Rights Act and the ADA Act... no, how do you support that?

That was a little more understandable than your previous comment. Are you calling out the Democrat for his incorrect remark, or are you calling out "all the conservative on this thread" for not calling out the Democrat? What does "how do you support that" mean?

188 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:48:51am

re: #184 Olsonist

He would be replacing Jim Bunning, a tough act to follow in the crazy uncle role.

Maybe he can give out copies of Atlas Shrugged at the Christmas party....

189 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:49:11am

re: #185 jamesfirecat

I say that he should retract it now that Rand Paul has made his opposition to that idea clear, and that was a throwing mud when it was still up in the air, if he ran the add after Rand Paul made it clear he doesn't favor that position then he's a slimeball/jerk/asshole who I wouldn't vote for not that I live in Kentucky...

What do you mean "still up in the air." According to the democrat opponent, Rand Paul said he wanted to repeal the Civil Rights act and the ADA act. What was "up in the air" about those two definitive statements?

190 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:50:05am

re: #153 wrenchwench

His Democratic opponent did. It's in the beginning of this clip.

Ah ha. So that's why Rand Paul is hammering the talking point so hard. That was a stupid over-reach; it gave Paul a chance to divert the discussion into a peripheral issue.

191 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:50:26am

OT. And "heh".
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

192 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:50:48am

re: #189 Walter L. Newton

What do you mean "still up in the air." According to the democrat opponent, Rand Paul said he wanted to repeal the Civil Rights act and the ADA act. What was "up in the air" about those two definitive statements?

Rand said clearly that he had some problems with 1/10th of the Civil Rights Act. If he has problems with it and we elect him as a Senator he'd be in a position to tinker with it and change it.

It's not exactly a leap of logic, more of a slight hop really, but it was still wrong of him to say.

193 SpaceJesus  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:50:57am

Scientists create first artificial life?

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

194 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:51:10am

OT, Orly Taitz is on the California ballot for Secretary of State.
*aieeee*

195 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:51:30am

re: #187 wrenchwench

That was a little more understandable than your previous comment. Are you calling out the Democrat for his incorrect remark, or are you calling out "all the conservative on this thread" for not calling out the Democrat? What does "how do you support that" mean?

Well, evidently Rand Paul HAS suggested that we repeal the Civil Right act and the ADA. I thought that when you linked to the video, that was what you were trying to clarify, that Rand has been accused of making these two points.

So, either Paul made these statements, or his democrat opponent is outright lying on TV, which would be near next to stupid and self-defeating if it's not true.

196 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:52:10am

Warning: Stormfront hate speech follows.

Latest thread regarding Rand Paul in their forums.

_____________________
Wurfaxt
Forum Member

Jewish NPR interviewer to Rand Paul %P% "Would you have voted for the Civil Rights Act?"
______________________
WhiteRights
Forum Member

The evil Jews will continue to try to trip up Rand Paul because he supports the Constitution and he'd vote against any "hate speech" laws that the Jews write up.

There's a whole list of Jewish litmus test questions such as:

* Would you vote for the 1964 Civil Rights Act?
* Would you ever condemn Israel?
* Do you believe in the Holocaust?
* Do you believe the races are equal?

I think Rand Paul did the right thing: He avoided answering the question so the Jew didn't get his "sound bite" so he could marginalize Rand Paul, and Rand turned the question around to focus on racial preferences such as the extremely WRONG Affirmative Action.

Rand Paul seems to have more political sense than Ron Paul, who never rose above Congressman. You don't walk into Jewish traps by giving them the answer they want.
______________________
BoyHowdy
"Friend of Stormfront"
Sustaining Member

Are they going to give Rand Paul the "Anti-Semitic Blood Test"??

197 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:52:30am

Seriously, I don't see how Paul's opponents can fail to beat back the Libertarian tide in November.

Just do a one-day search on YouTube for Ron and Rand's craziest supporters. String together ten five-second clips of their diverse rants. Put a picture of whichever Paul you're running against up at the start for five seconds, with a voiceover saying "What do Paul's supporters support?" Run rants. Close with five seconds of the American flag and a voiceover saying "Sane Americans don't agree."

Fine print:

thismessagewaspaidforbysaneamericansforasaneworld

Run resulting sixty-second spot for sixty days prior to the election.

Done. And done.

198 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:52:44am

By the way, whether Rand Paul actually supports repealing the Civil Rights Act or not, the fact is that this absolutely IS supported by many far right libertarians and many far right conservatives. This is not a new discussion.

199 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:52:46am

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

Well, evidently Rand Paul HAS suggested that we repeal the Civil Right act and the ADA. I thought that when you linked to the video, that was what you were trying to clarify, that Rand has been accused of making these two points.

So, either Paul made these statements, or his democrat opponent is outright lying on TV, which would be near next to stupid and self-defeating if it's not true.

Self defeating you say? Sounds like its right up our (the democrats) alley!

200 What, me worry?  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:52:59am

re: #174 Cato the Elder

The Pauls are nothing more than another would-be father-son dynasty in embryonic form. They just have a somewhat different shtick.

This explains why they can unite idealistic college students, stoners, and Nazis all under the same limp banner.

I think they have about as much chance in the long run as Ross Perot and Steve Forbes, two other gigantic phonies.

But they could well be spoilers, and Sarah Palin will probably be the next president.

Ack God forbid! But I agree with you.

And welcome back btw. Missed you!

201 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:53:07am

re: #182 Gus 802

OK. But it's well known for being used in the late 60s and into the 70s. I used to hear it all the time and the context was regarding race. It's attributable to Barry Goldwater.

It's also attributable to Larry Flynt.

Just sayin'.

202 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:53:37am

re: #193 spacejesus

Scientists create first artificial life?

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Check up thread. We're all gonna die.

203 gehazi  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:54:00am

re: #196 Gus 802

Anti-Semitic Blood Test?

204 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:54:05am

re: #200 marjoriemoon

Ack God forbid! But I agree with you.

And welcome back btw. Missed you!

And I agree with Cato and you... but I didn't miss you :)

205 Olsonist  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:54:33am

re: #190 Charles

Ah ha. So that's why Rand Paul is hammering the talking point so hard. That was a stupid over-reach; it gave Paul a chance to divert the discussion into a peripheral issue.

No, Charles, you have to take it to this guy. He's a really nice racist scum. I don't mind if the Dem goes down in the election; I do mind if Conway goes down quietly. You would call Paul a liar. It's good that Conway already has.

206 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:55:20am

re: #191 Cannadian Club Akbar

OT. And "heh".
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]


That's what happens when you let women go to amusement parks...
/

Seems like Saudi women are turning on their oppressors.

207 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:55:32am

Heh.

Report: Majority Of Government Doesn't Trust Citizens Either

WASHINGTON—At a time when widespread polling data suggests that a majority of the U.S. populace no longer trusts the federal government, a Pew Research Center report has found that the vast majority of the federal government doesn't trust the U.S. populace all that much either.

According to the poll—which surveyed members of the judicial, legislative, and executive branches—9 out of 10 government officials reported feeling "disillusioned" by the populace and claimed to have "completely lost confidence" in the citizenry's ability to act in the nation's best interests.

"All the vitriol and partisan bickering in Congress has caused most Americans to form negative opinions of the U.S. government," Pew researcher Amy Ratner said. "However, over the same time period, the government has likewise grown wary of U.S. citizens, largely due to their utter lack of foresight, laziness, and overall incompetence."

Added Ratner, "And the fact that American Idol is still the No. 1 show on television doesn't exactly make our government burst with confidence."

208 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:57:18am

Conway needs to just keep asking WHY it was so damn hard for Paul to answer NO to Maddow's question.
Sure he can say all he wants to say to Ingrahm or in a press release, but WTH was his problem last night?

209 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:57:20am

re: #205 Olsonist

No, Charles, you have to take it to this guy. He's a really nice racist scum. I don't mind if the Dem goes down in the election; I do mind if Conway goes down quietly. You would call Paul a liar. It's good that Conway already has.

So Conway was telling the truth, Rand Paul HAS publicly suggested for the repeal of the Civil Rights Acts and the ADA Act? I'm confused... Conway says he did, others are saying he didn't.

I watched that video, it seems to me Conway is not mincing words or just making something up out of a partial cloth, he definitively states that Rand Paul said these things.

210 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:57:43am

Complete backtrack.

Asked for further clarification, Jesse Benton, a spokesman for the Paul campaign, confirmed that Paul does in fact think the Federal government should have the power to ban private businesses from commiting racial discrimination. He told me:

"Civil Rights legislation that has been affirmed by our courts gives the Federal government the right to ensure that private businesses don't discriminate based on race. Dr. Paul supports those powers."

That's a reversal from what Paul said last night on Rachel Maddow's show.

The Plum Line

211 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:58:10am

re: #205 Olsonist

No, Charles, you have to take it to this guy. He's a really nice racist scum. I don't mind if the Dem goes down in the election; I do mind if Conway goes down quietly. You would call Paul a liar. It's good that Conway already has.

You mean take it to Rand Paul with an outright complete lie?

212 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:59:12am

re: #208 webevintage

Conway needs to just keep asking WHY it was so damn hard for Paul to answer NO to Maddow's question.
Sure he can say all he wants to say to Ingrahm or in a press release, but WTH was his problem last night?

Maybe he was under a voodoo curse, somewhere, someone was constantly poking a little doll of him in the brain with a stars and bars flag pin.

213 What, me worry?  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:59:21am

re: #198 Charles

By the way, whether Rand Paul actually supports repealing the Civil Rights Act or not, the fact is that this absolutely IS supported by many far right libertarians and many far right conservatives. This is not a new discussion.

No it's not. I do believe he would like to repeal the act and the ADA. However, it would be political suicide to come out and say it, so he's dancing around it.

I was very surprised to find on Rand Paul's campaign site, under Abortion the first two sentences HE bolded for added emphasis:

I am 100% pro life. I believe abortion is taking the life of an innocent human being. I believe life begins at conception and it is the duty of our government to protect this life.

[Link: www.randpaul2010.com...]
This coming from a libertarian who has the audacity to say that the CRA and ADA is all about the overreach of government. Bullshit.

214 What, me worry?  Thu, May 20, 2010 11:59:39am

re: #204 Walter L. Newton

And I agree with Cato and you... but I didn't miss you :)

I love you too, Walter :)

215 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:00:18pm

re: #190 Charles

Ah ha. So that's why Rand Paul is hammering the talking point so hard. That was a stupid over-reach; it gave Paul a chance to divert the discussion into a peripheral issue.

Typical politician tactic. He's just doing what they all do, something that should be explained to his supporters. They should be told hat he won't give them what they want, and that he's a kook.

216 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:00:23pm

This is the video in which Rand Paul supposedly says he would repeal the Civil Rights Act. I'm watching now...

[Link: link.brightcove.com...]

217 Olsonist  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:00:30pm

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

No, Paul doesn't get off the hook for only criticizing (wink wink) or not fully supporting (nod nod) the CRA.

218 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:01:01pm

re: #72 Varek Raith

I've notice a lot of Libertarians seem to be anti-science.
*shakes head in shame*

Wait?

what?

please for the love of all that is unholy, do not even think that Paul Rand is Libertarian in any way shape or form, He's anti Gay Marriage, anti abortion, believes that accused terrorists should be tried in a military tribunal or held without trial at all. None of these are Libertarian in any way shape or form.

if anything you're looking at a Constitutionalist. The only reason the term libertarian is being thrown around is because of Ron Paul.

Sorry, but I tend to hang out with a lot of libertarian people and everyone of them is very open to science and very pro science. Don't take a few mislabeled morons as a broader indicater of the hatred of science in the libertarian movement (libertarians have plenty of other issues, that's not one of them).

219 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:02:08pm

re: #216 Charles

This is the video in which Rand Paul supposedly says he would repeal the Civil Rights Act. I'm watching now...

[Link: link.brightcove.com...]

ITS A F***ING HOUR LONG? Someone who has already come down with a terminal disease this is your chance to take another one for the team, lest my brain flee out my noose in search of intellectual stimulation halfway through....

220 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:02:26pm

Oh wow. I forgot about this:
FLASHBACK: Paul Campaign Spokesman Resigned Over Racism On Myspace Page

In December, Chris Hightower, the spokesman for Paul's senate campaign, was forced to resign after a liberal Kentucky blog discovered that his MySpace page had a comment posted around Martin Luther King Day that read: "HAPPY N***ER DAY!!!" above what appears to be a historical photo of the lynching of a black man.

221 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:03:23pm

Jon Stossel everyone's most annoying Libertarian today on Paul and ADA:

Media Matters Video
222 avanti  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:03:26pm

Looks like Scott Brown from RI is a reliable Dem vote, he just voted with them for closure on the financial reform bill..

223 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:03:42pm

re: #220 JasonA

Oh wow. I forgot about this:
FLASHBACK: Paul Campaign Spokesman Resigned Over Racism On Myspace Page

I didn't.

He had a photograph of a lynching on his myspace. I believe it was on MLK day.

224 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:04:32pm

re: #222 avanti

Looks like Scott Brown from RI is a reliable Dem vote, he just voted with them for closure on the financial reform bill..

And teaparty heads begin to explode....

225 avanti  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:05:59pm

re: #222 avanti

Looks like Scott Brown from RI is a reliable Dem vote, he just voted with them for closure on the financial reform bill..

Sorry Ma., not RI.

226 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:06:25pm

re: #221 webevintage

Jon Stossel everyone's most annoying Libertarian today on Paul and ADA:
[Link: mediamatters.org...]

Please run with this, Fox. I could use an early Christmas.

227 avanti  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:07:19pm

re: #224 webevintage

And teaparty heads begin to explode...

Yep, he has to be a disappointment, but he's in a blue state and wants to get reelected.

228 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:07:40pm

Wow, here's another story that fell through the cracks last week....
Muslim Store Hit in Grenade Attack

Two unidentified men threw a grenade into a Muslim store in St. Petersburg on Wednesday, injuring two people.

“The men opened the door to the store, threw an explosive device inside and ran away,” said Vyacheslav Stepchenko, spokesman for the St. Petersburg police. Stepchenko said that the police were still investigating whether the device was a grenade or some other kind of explosive.

The store, which sells halal meat, is located about 30 meters from the central gates of the city’s main mosque.

Two people suffered shrapnel injuries. A woman was injured in the arm, while a man sustained a leg wound. Both people were taken to hospital, but their injuries were not serious, Stepchenko said. He said the police were searching for the perpetrators.


Here's video of the attack....
Muslim Store Hit in Grenade Attack

Liveleak Video

I wonder if this was near the mosque that was set on fire.

229 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:08:23pm

re: #227 avanti

Yep, he has to be a disappointment, but he's in a blue state and wants to get reelected.

Which won't happen assuming the Democrats run someone who knows Kurt Schilling from Derek Jeter against him.

230 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:09:00pm

re: #222 avanti

Looks like Scott Brown from RI is a reliable Dem vote, he just voted with them for closure on the financial reform bill..

I wouldn't say that. But he clearly wants to keep his seat and that means voting with the Dems a good bit of the time. As a conservative, it doesn't bother me too much, since I understand that the people he represents do not agree with me on many issues. Given that, I have to expect his record to be moderate at best.

231 Nick Morgan  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:09:37pm

re: #225 avanti

Thanks for the clarification. I googled to see if there was another Scott brown.

232 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:10:17pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

Ah, the mosque attack was in Jacksonville...
Reward increased in Jacksonville mosque attack

Something's up in Florida.

233 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:10:32pm
In this century, America is facing two different kinds of threats, though no less grave. This time, the threat does not come from nation-state superpowers, but from non-state networks, each pursuing an agenda based upon radical ideologies. The first motivates non-state terrorist networks to kill Americans both here and abroad. But even more disturbing than the threats from foreign terrorists is a second threat that is right here at home. It is an ideology so fundamentally at odds with historic American values that it threatens to undo the cultural ethics that have made our country great. I call it "secular-socialism." - Newt "Hears My Wang" Gingrich

Gosh Newt, nice to know Americans like me are more troubling then non-state terrorists bent on killing Americans...like me.

234 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:10:37pm

re: #217 Olsonist

No, Paul doesn't get off the hook for only criticizing (wink wink) or not fully supporting (nod nod) the CRA.

You never answered my question. I was talking about Conway. It's alright for Conway to make a lie about a definitive statement that Rand Paul never made in those exact words?

Rand Paul is a racist creep, I know his kind, they clothe their racism in vague legal opinions that have no support among practical law.

But at the same time, I don't give any credit to any politician who will simply outright lie about an issue just because that politician "thinks" someone deserves it.

If Rand Paul actually said those things plain and clear, then the whole ball game changes...

Sorry, I'm not partisan, I don't support bullshit from anyone.

235 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:11:17pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty sure that's St. Petersburg in Russia -- not the Florida version.

236 zora  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:11:52pm

here's a you tube video that was put together by the grayson campaign. he's says we should send the prisoners at gitmo back to where they came from. "drop them back on the battlefield". strange ideas, indeed.

Youtube Video
237 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:12:36pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

You never answered my question. I was talking about Conway. It's alright for Conway to make a lie about a definitive statement that Rand Paul never made in those exact words?

Rand Paul is a racist creep, I know his kind, they clothe their racism in vague legal opinions that have no support among practical law.

But at the same time, I don't give any credit to any politician who will simply outright lie about an issue just because that politician "thinks" someone deserves it.

If Rand Paul actually said those things plain and clear, then the whole ball game changes...

Sorry, I'm not partisan, I don't support bullshit from anyone.

Here's the link that Charles said shows an interview that he supposedly talks about it in...


[Link: link.brightcove.com...]


It's an hour long though, so I think we may need someone with an ironclad stomach to go in and find out the truth for us..

238 What, me worry?  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:12:42pm

Maddow's interview with Paul was great, but she missed an important question. He said he absolutely does not support "institutional racism" and is glad the country has moved away from it, but if he's against using anti-discrimination practices, how does he propose to end it?

239 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:12:46pm

re: #230 Dark_Falcon

I wouldn't say that. But he clearly wants to keep his seat and that means voting with the Dems a good bit of the time. As a conservative, it doesn't bother me too much, since I understand that the people he represents do not agree with me on many issues. Given that, I have to expect his record to be moderate at best.

Yeah.
I'm surprised when tea party types or conservatives get upset with Brown or Snowe or Collins. These folks are not in states that are safe conservative votes (same could be said for Blue Dog Dems) and they can't just always vote the straight party line or they will get voted out of office.
Brown is especially in MA when he has to run again if he is too conservative or even if the Dems have a decent candidate next time around. (2 years?)

240 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:12:54pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

Jacksonville = NE

St. Pete = SW (by Tampa)

Something is up.

241 Slap  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:13:05pm

All this Paul business.

Kentucky, vote for the RIGHT Paul, jeebus.

You KNOW it's Ru you really want.

(Wrong Paul's luv child....?)

242 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:13:19pm

re: #238 marjoriemoon

Maddow's interview with Paul was great, but she missed an important question. He said he absolutely does not support "institutional racism" and is glad the country has moved away from it, but if he's against using anti-discrimination practices, how does he propose to end it?

By having the invisible hand of the market bitchslap racists evidently....

243 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:13:21pm

re: #235 Charles

Oops!

Disregard my posts folks!

244 Nick Morgan  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:13:22pm

re: #231 Nick Morgan

By the way, I love Studebaker if that is the Avanti reference.

245 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:13:43pm

re: #235 Charles

I'm pretty sure that's St. Petersburg in Russia -- not the Florida version.

LOL! I saw the St Pete times and just assumed it was Florida. "Vyacheslav Stepchenko" should have been a clue.
/Duh

246 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:14:11pm

OK, the section of the interview in which Paul talks about the Civil Rights Act starts at about one hour in.

[Link: link.brightcove.com...]

And if that's the interview Conway references, Paul does not say he wants to repeal the Civil Rights Act. He does the same waffle dance he did with NPR and Rachel Maddow.

247 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:14:31pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

LOL! I saw the St Pete times and just assumed it was Florida. "Vyacheslav Stepchenko" should have been a clue.
/Duh

Also the .ru ;)

248 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:15:01pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

LOL! I saw the St Pete times and just assumed it was Florida. "Vyacheslav Stepchenko" should have been a clue.
/Duh

The one in St. Petersburg was in Russia.

There was another one in Jacksonville, Florida.

249 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:15:07pm

re: #246 Charles

OK, the section of the interview in which Paul talks about the Civil Rights Act starts at about one hour in.

[Link: link.brightcove.com...]

And if that's the interview Conway references, Paul does not say he wants to repeal the Civil Rights Act. He does the same waffle dance he did with NPR and Rachel Maddow.

Thanks for the info.

250 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:15:34pm

To Save America

Newt-a-nomics: Buy it new for $17 or used for $19. That's not a lot of toilet paper for $17 and I bet it burns your ass.

251 Slap  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:16:06pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

In Florida, that's pronounced "bubba".

252 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:16:34pm

How The Rekers ‘Rent Boy’ Scandal Could Undermine Prop. 8 Supporters’ Court Battle

Rekers may even be a problem in cases where he didn’t testify. Today, the New York Times reports on his role in the high-profile challenge to California’s marriage equality ban:

Dr. Rekers did not testify in that case, but his views, in the form of a declaration filed in a previous case, were cited in the documents prepared for trial by two men initially identified as expert witnesses. (Only one, David Blankenhorn of the Institute for American Values, testified.) The question of whether sexual orientation could be altered through therapy was also discussed extensively in court.

Charles J. Cooper, the attorney defending the marriage equality ban, told the Times that Rekers “has had no involvement in the Proposition 8 case.” However, ThinkProgress found at least four ties to the Prop. 8 trial:

1. Blankenhorn was the defendants’ star witness and was eviscerated on the stand by attorney David Boies, who was arguing against Prop. 8 for the American Foundation for Equal Rights. Blakenhorn has claimed that he is “not familiar” with Rekers’ work and didn’t “cite anyone named ‘Dr. Rekers’” in his “expert testimony submitted to the court.” However, Blankenhorn did reference Rekers’ work the bibliography of his “expert report” for the trial:

253 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:17:11pm

re: #225 avanti

Sorry Ma., not RI.

What's the difference?
//

254 avanti  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:17:28pm

re: #244 Nick Morgan

By the way, I love Studebaker if that is the Avanti reference.

It is, and it's what I do for a living, I buy and sell Studebakers.

255 zora  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:18:27pm

re: #236 zora

"he" is rand paul not grayson.

pimf

256 Olsonist  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:19:08pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

You never answered my question. I was talking about Conway. It's alright for Conway to make a lie about a definitive statement that Rand Paul never made in those exact words?

Again, no, Paul does not get off the hook that Conway is putting him on for not literally submitting a bill before the United States Congress explicitly repealing the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Conway's statement:

Rand Paul is promoting a narrow and rigid ideology and has repeatedly rejected a fundamental provision of the Civil Rights Act. He is focused on the Tea Party whereas I am running to be a senator for all the people of Kentucky, who are really hurting right now.
No matter how he tries to spin to the contrary, the fact is that Paul's ideology has dangerous consequences for working families, veterans, students, the disabled, and those without a voice in the halls of power. Kentucky voters have a choice between Rand Paul's ideology and our campaign to create jobs, cut the deficit, and bring accountability to Wall Street and Washington. We are reaching out to Democrats, Independents and Republicans across Kentucky to ask them to join our campaign and stand up for Kentucky families.
257 allegro  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:20:06pm

re: #252 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How The Rekers ‘Rent Boy’ Scandal Could Undermine Prop. 8 Supporters’ Court Battle

Heh. I just got an image of the next Gay Pride Parade goers holding up signs with Rekers pic that say "I love you, man!"

258 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:20:28pm

re: #217 Olsonist

No, Paul doesn't get off the hook for only criticizing (wink wink) or not fully supporting (nod nod) the CRA.

But it's alright for Conway to make a blanket statement like he made on that video, that Rand wants to repeal the "Civil Rights Act and the ADA" when no one yet has been able to find an actual statement like that, made by Rand?

259 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:20:52pm

re: #232 Killgore Trout

Ah, the mosque attack was in Jacksonville...
Reward increased in Jacksonville mosque attack

Something's up in Florida.

Yeah, but it's weird. Been here for more than a year now and i've never heard an untoward word about Islam. It'll be interesting to see who this nut is connected to when he gets caught. Aceofwhat may have a little on-the-ground reporting to do!

260 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:21:14pm

I want a journalist to ask him if he's for or against Equal Employment Opportunity Laws. Based on what he's said about private business owners and their right to discriminate against customers I know what answer I'd bet on.

261 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:22:25pm

re: #257 allegro

Heh. I just got an image of the next Gay Pride Parade goers holding up signs with Rekers pic that say "I love you, man!"

"Who wants a moustache ride?"

262 Nick Morgan  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:23:18pm

re: #254 avanti

Sounds like a very interesting job (and enviable). My late uncle was a Studebaker lover and I remember riding in his in the late 50's early 60's.

263 Olsonist  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:25:45pm

re: #258 Walter L. Newton

Yep, it's alright. If Rand Paul gets to speak in code to his followers, then Conway gets to interpret that code for the rest of us.

264 researchok  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:25:53pm

Paul seems determined to establish his Libertarian bona fides by maintaining a kind of intellectual integrity as it relates to that kind of ideology. What he doesn't grasp is that while intellectual integrity is important, it never, ever trumps moral integrity.

That is something Bill Buckley understood and held dear and that is why he parted company with the absolutists.

Morality always trumps ideology.

265 Fozzie Bear  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:26:28pm

re: #263 Olsonist

Yep, it's alright. If Rand Paul gets to speak in code to his followers, then Conway gets to interpret that code for the rest of us.

Exactly my feeling.

266 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:26:53pm

re: #259 Aceofwhat?

Yeah, but it's weird. Been here for more than a year now and i've never heard an untoward word about Islam. It'll be interesting to see who this nut is connected to when he gets caught. Aceofwhat may have a little on-the-ground reporting to do!

Looking forward to your report.

267 prairiefire  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:26:59pm

Oh, sinz54 at Frum Forum just gave a shout out to LGF. "It's a simple question of human rights versus property rights, as LGF pointed out."

268 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:27:19pm

re: #256 Olsonist

Conway said simply "Look at the statements he's made... he's made statements like he'd like to repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964..." That's what he said to Chris Matthews on the MSNBC video linked to above.

I'm certainly not support Paul, but I'm certainly not so partisan to let Conway get away with an outright lie, which at this time, his statement appears to be an outright lie... this may be what Conway feels that Rand Paul would like to do, and it may even BE what Rand Paul would like to do, but Conway is not framing his statement in that way, he is outright claiming that Rand Paul said this in this way.

269 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:27:36pm

re: #263 Olsonist

Yep, it's alright. If Rand Paul gets to speak in code to his followers, then Conway gets to interpret that code for the rest of us.

So when we say "empathetic" we mean "activist" and when we "say" "activist" we mean "likes abortion"!

What could be simpler?

270 Nick Morgan  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:27:57pm

re: #264 researchok

"Morality always trumps ideology."

I like that! I wish it was right all the time.

271 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:28:02pm

re: #263 Olsonist

Yep, it's alright. If Rand Paul gets to speak in code to his followers, then Conway gets to interpret that code for the rest of us.

Ok... well at least your consistent. Dishonest but consistent.

272 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:28:09pm

Oh, and Dave Weigel is losing it today.

Sent out a tweet asking why James Clyburn was considered a civil rights icon. Had to tweet a little bit later (minutes) "I stand corrected on Clyburn, thanks all!"

What the hell.

273 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:28:18pm

re: #267 prairiefire

Oh, sinz54 at Frum Forum just gave a shout out to LGF. "It's a simple question of human rights versus property rights, as LGF pointed out."

And now we wait for someone to quote Cato out of context...

274 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:29:07pm

Rand Paul Wants To Abolish The Americans With Disabilities Act, Citing Fairness ‘To The Business Owner’

PAUL: You know a lot of things on employment ought to be done locally. You know, people finding out right or wrong locally. You know, some of the things, for example we can come up with common sense solutions — like for example if you have a three story building and you have someone apply for a job, you get them a job on the first floor if they’re in a wheelchair as supposed to making the person who owns the business put an elevator in, you know what I mean? So things like that aren’t fair to the business owner. [...]

Q: Do you think Americans, based on the 2nd Amendment, do you think they have a Constitutional right to violently overthrow the government?

PAUL STAFFER: Alright, we’ll have to stop recording.

If someone says they think these things should be legislated locally, is it really unfair to suggest that they would rather the federal were gone? This is from May 17th, by the way. When was the Conway interview?

275 researchok  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:29:14pm

re: #270 Nick Morgan

"Morality always trumps ideology."

I like that! I wish it was right all the time.

You and me both.

276 ArchangelMichael  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:29:34pm

re: #264 researchok

Also, any political philosophy created by human beings is inherently flawed as we are not omniscient, so there always has to be exceptions to the rule. No one type of "ism" works for everything. Taking your beliefs to logical extremes like many libertarians do highlights crazy and undermines any legitimate positions or points they have to make.

277 freetoken  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:30:04pm

re: #268 Walter L. Newton

Conway said simply "Look at the statements he's made... he's made statements like he'd like to repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964..." That's what he said to Chris Matthews on the MSNBC video linked to above.

I'm certainly not support Paul, but I'm certainly not so partisan to let Conway get away with an outright lie, which at this time, his statement appears to be an outright lie... this may be what Conway feels that Rand Paul would like to do, and it may even BE what Rand Paul would like to do, but Conway is not framing his statement in that way, he is outright claiming that Rand Paul said this in this way.

It seems like you're splitting these hairs very finely.

278 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:31:22pm

I can't wait for a business owner to exercise his rights and tell Rand to get the fuck out of his store.

279 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:31:42pm

The PA-12 race (Critz v. Burns) cost the Republicans a little bit more than the loss of a talking point:

The NRCC has spent $958,897 -- one tenth of their cash on hand -- and nine (9) shady outside groups have spent more than $445,000 to defeat Democrat Mark Critz. Republican Committee Chairman Michael Steele guaranteed victory for Republican Tim Burns.

That wasn't exactly a cheap loss in a race they didn't try to win.

280 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:33:32pm

re: #274 JasonA

Rand Paul Wants To Abolish The Americans With Disabilities Act, Citing Fairness ‘To The Business Owner’

If someone says they think these things should be legislated locally, is it really unfair to suggest that they would rather the federal were gone? This is from May 17th, by the way. When was the Conway interview?

Of course, that all gets screwed up if you have a handicapped African American employee and all the bathrooms on the ground floor are 'whites only.'
/

281 Reginald Perrin  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:33:33pm

From the Wall Street Journal

Rand Paul: Cut Spending But Not Medicare Doctor Payments


Tea party favorite Rand Paul has rocketed to the lead ahead of Tuesday’s Republican Senate primary here on a resolute pledge to balance the federal budget and slash the size of government.

But on Thursday evening, the ophthalmologist from Bowling Green said there was one thing he would not cut: Medicare physician payments.

In fact, Paul — who says 50% of his patients are on Medicare — wants to end cuts to physician payments under a program now in place called the sustained growth rate, or SGR. “Physicians should be allowed to make a comfortable living.

So he was for cutting spending before he was against cutting spending?

Hypocrite

282 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:34:50pm

re: #281 Reginald Perrin

From the Wall Street Journal

Rand Paul: Cut Spending But Not Medicare Doctor Payments

So he was for cutting spending before he was against cutting spending?

Hypocrite

He's against socialized medicine except for the part about the payments to doctors like himself. Stop serving the people, but keep the money coming in, thank you very much.

283 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:34:51pm

re: #268 Walter L. Newton

Conway said simply "Look at the statements he's made... he's made statements like he'd like to repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964..." That's what he said to Chris Matthews on the MSNBC video linked to above.

I'm certainly not support Paul, but I'm certainly not so partisan to let Conway get away with an outright lie, which at this time, his statement appears to be an outright lie... this may be what Conway feels that Rand Paul would like to do, and it may even BE what Rand Paul would like to do, but Conway is not framing his statement in that way, he is outright claiming that Rand Paul said this in this way.

Agreed. Conway answer Rand Paul's dishonest BS with dishonest BS of his own. That's not good and you're right to call him on it.

284 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:35:30pm

re: #281 Reginald Perrin

From the Wall Street Journal

Rand Paul: Cut Spending But Not Medicare Doctor Payments

So he was for cutting spending before he was against cutting spending?

Hypocrite

Wow. Talk about having a vested interest...

285 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:35:37pm

re: #277 freetoken

It seems like you're splitting these hairs very finely.

Yep, I am. I'm probably unrealistically hoping that politicians (or anyone) can be more precise when debating issues of this import, but I'm probably also going to get disappointed.

What is more disappointing is the fact that some people actually, when talking about this sort of rhetoric, actually imply that it's alright to lie, or in the least, be willfully obtuse, in order to defeat an opponent.

That's why I couldn't do this, I couldn't run for office, or even manage a group of people at work, because I don't like playing in those gray areas, I won't willfully put myself in that position.

286 researchok  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:35:56pm

re: #276 ArchangelMichael

Also, any political philosophy created by human beings is inherently flawed as we are not omniscient, so there always has to be exceptions to the rule. No one type of "ism" works for everything. Taking your beliefs to logical extremes like many libertarians do highlights crazy and undermines any legitimate positions or points they have to make.

That's the appeal of Libertarianism- they don't have to be moral. They only have to be intellectually 'even-handed' and consistent no matter how corrupt the playing field.

They say they want an even playing field but won't do a damn thing to make that a reality.

287 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:36:25pm

Oh boy, that oil dispersant that BP is using? Toxic.

EPA demands a less toxic dispersant in Gulf spill

One of the chief agents being used, called Corexit 9500, is identified as a "moderate" human health hazard that can cause eye, skin or respiratory irritation with prolonged exposure, according to safety data documents.

A spokeswoman for the EPA declined immediate comment.

A spokesman for BP said Thursday the company is only using established dispersant products that are preapproved for use in the Gulf of Mexico.

One of the criteria for selecting Corexit was the manufacturer's ability to supply the large volumes needed to deal with the response to the massive spill, said BP spokesman Mark Salt

Corexit "is very effective in causing oil to form into small isolated droplets that remain suspended until they are either eaten by naturally occurring microbes, evaporate or are picked up or dissolved," Salt said.

Jackson used less glowing language, calling the dispersant "the lesser of two environmental outcomes no one wants to have to deal with. But we also need to be able to answer questions about what's out there and what's available for use," she said Tuesday after a Senate environment committee hearing.

In her testimony, Jackson said the long-term effects of the dispersants on aquatic life are still unknown, and said the EPA would work to ensure that "the dispersants that are used are as non-toxic as possible."

288 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:36:55pm

Neat graphic:

289 Mocking Jay  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:37:03pm

re: #287 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've gotta stop saying "this can't get any worse..."

290 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:37:48pm

re: #281 Reginald Perrin

From the Wall Street Journal

Rand Paul: Cut Spending But Not Medicare Doctor Payments

So he was for cutting spending before he was against cutting spending?

Hypocrite

two emails inbound to you. The second cancels out the first.

291 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:38:04pm

OT - Roommate Ad Fail

292 prairiefire  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:38:59pm

I think Dr. Paul will look even more wide eyed and confused after the intellectual beating he is going to take up until November. He looks like the little Dutch boy with his finger in the...you know.

293 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:39:40pm

re: #272 Stanley Sea

Oh, and Dave Weigel is losing it today.

Sent out a tweet asking why James Clyburn was considered a civil rights icon. Had to tweet a little bit later (minutes) "I stand corrected on Clyburn, thanks all!"

What the hell.

HA!
I've been watching him today with his tweets...

294 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:40:16pm

re: #285 Walter L. Newton

Yep, I am. I'm probably unrealistically hoping that politicians (or anyone) can be more precise when debating issues of this import, but I'm probably also going to get disappointed.

What is more disappointing is the fact that some people actually, when talking about this sort of rhetoric, actually imply that it's alright to lie, or in the least, be willfully obtuse, in order to defeat an opponent.

That's why I couldn't do this, I couldn't run for office, or even manage a group of people at work, because I don't like playing in those gray areas, I won't willfully put myself in that position.

That's part of sales, too. I've never lied in selling, but I have glossed over details when needed.

295 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:40:32pm

re: #292 prairiefire

He looks like the little Dutch boy with his finger in the...you know.

Damn, I really should have watched the whole Maddow interview

/rimshot

296 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:42:22pm
Costly, time-consuming test of cement linings in Deepwater Horizon rig was omitted, spokesman says

[Link: www.nola.com...]

297 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:42:41pm

re: #295 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Damn, I really should have watched the whole Maddow interview

/rimshot

She broke his fingers.

298 prairiefire  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:43:04pm

re: #295 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Damn, I really should have watched the whole Maddow interview

/rimshot

Ha! I knew there was a reason I could not say it! Aw, the gays took that word away just like they took "gay."/

299 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:44:00pm

The live BP Spill Cam is online.

The official page seems to be overwhelmed.

Found this alternative stream from WKRG.

300 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:44:11pm

In fact, Paul — who says 50% of his patients are on Medicare — wants to end cuts to physician payments under a program now in place called the sustained growth rate, or SGR. “Physicians should be allowed to make a comfortable living.

Oh fuck him.
We should ALL be allowed a "comfortable living"....
He belongs to a Country Club, I'd say he is living quite comfy now.
What a hypocrite.

I wonder what his blind patients would think about his stance on ADA?

301 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:44:24pm

re: #279 darthstar

The PA-12 race (Critz v. Burns) cost the Republicans a little bit more than the loss of a talking point:

That wasn't exactly a cheap loss in a race they didn't try to win.

*lovely* comments on that article.

302 webevintage  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:45:15pm

re: #295 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Damn, I really should have watched the whole Maddow interview

/rimshot

Well she is a "intellectual terrorist".....

303 prairiefire  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:45:19pm

re: #297 darthstar

She broke his fingers.

In a nice way. She way she went at him repeatedly, reminded me of my mom.

304 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:45:38pm

re: #299 Gus 802

That'll be cool when they make their next attempt to block the leak...unless they turn the camera off at that time. I think BP can afford to pay for the bandwidth needed to satisfy all the curious who want to watch the damn thing get fixed.

305 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:45:49pm

re: #207 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh.

Report: Majority Of Government Doesn't Trust Citizens Either

"All the vitriol and partisan bickering in Congress has caused most Americans to form negative opinions of the U.S. government," Pew researcher Amy Ratner said. "However, over the same time period, the government has likewise grown wary of U.S. citizens, largely due to their utter lack of foresight, laziness, and overall incompetence."

Indeed. My opinion of "the American people" as a whole is lower than my esteem for rats, or blind moles, or locusts.

If people get the government they deserve, surely ours is better than we've earned.

306 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:47:00pm

re: #301 oaktree

*lovely* comments on that article.

Losing brings out the best in some people...but those people didn't post any comments.

307 Gus  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:49:25pm

re: #304 darthstar

That'll be cool when they make their next attempt to block the leak...unless they turn the camera off at that time. I think BP can afford to pay for the bandwidth needed to satisfy all the curious who want to watch the damn thing get fixed.

There's already been over 33 million gallons of oil released.

I'm not optimistic about the junk shot idea.

308 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:51:37pm

re: #307 Gus 802

There's already been over 33 million gallons of oil released.

I'm not optimistic about the junk shot idea.

What they need to do is cut the pipe off about 10 feet from the base so there's only one massive gusher. Then they can drop an open valve over it, seal the damn thing, and end the first stage of this disaster.

The second stage, environmental destruction, is just getting started.

Stage three is clean-up. That'll take decades.

309 Kragar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:52:20pm

re: #307 Gus 802

There's already been over 33 million gallons of oil released.

I'm not optimistic about the junk shot idea.

And if that fucks up, now we have all sorts of other debris down there to deal with on top of the oil spill

310 darthstar  Thu, May 20, 2010 12:55:15pm

re: #309 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And if that fucks up, now we have all sorts of other debris down there to deal with on top of the oil spill

I saw some of the video of the underwater fields of dead fish and crabs in the Gulf yesterday...they need to do something soon. The food chain is getting cut off at the knees.

311 palomino  Thu, May 20, 2010 1:52:53pm

re: #156 Gus 802

Up until yesterday Rand Paul was the crackpot with a father who is the crazy uncle of the GOP, Ron Paul. Rand was for closing GITMO; opposed to waterboarding; looking inwards for the cause of the World Trade Center attack (not unlike Ward Churchill or Rev. Wright); promoting hemp; and promoting isolationism. He was a guest on Alex Jones, and frequently promoted in places like Infowars, The Daily Paul, Stormfront (up until he released a statement in support of Israel), David Duke, and other dreg like locales of the internet.

And now of course he's gonna try to distance himself from all that crap, or else he'll have to put out a lot more statements--like the one earlier today--that look simultaneously panicked and wishy-washy.

312 palomino  Thu, May 20, 2010 1:56:36pm

re: #134 Fozzie Bear

FTFY. Let's not pretend there's a difference anymore. I'll take it back when the party leadership throws him under the bus. I don't expect i'll have to take it back.

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic or generous towards the GOP. I suspect you're right: they won't cross the teabaggers, who absolutely love Randy.

But revisiting the Civil Rights Act isn't a fight the GOP wants, and in the past they've worked to marginalized Ron Paul; they should do the same with Rand, but the Senate seat is probably too alluring.


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