Fanatics, Creationists, and Theocrats Win One in Texas

Wingnuts • Views: 5,328

So long, Thomas Jefferson.

Been nice knowing you, separation of church and state.

Hi there, Joe McCarthy! I thought you were dead?

In Texas, social studies textbooks get a conservative make-over.

In a move that has potential national impact, the Texas State Board of Education has approved controversial changes to social studies textbooks – pushing high school teaching in a more conservative direction.

The Dallas Morning news reports that the curriculum standards adopted Friday by a 9-5 vote along party lines on the elected board have “a definite political and philosophical bent in many areas.”

“For example, high school students will have to learn about leading conservative groups from the 1980s and 1990s in U.S. history – but not about liberal or minority rights groups that are identified as such. Board members also gave a thumbs down to requiring history teachers and textbooks to provide coverage on the late U.S. Sen. Ted Kennedy while the late President Ronald Reagan was elevated to more prominent coverage in the curriculum. In addition, the requirements place Sen. Joseph McCarthy in a more positive light in U.S. history despite the view of most historians who condemn the late Republican senator’s tactics and his view that the U.S. government was infiltrated by Communists in the 1950s.”

Lizards may wish to vote in this Wall Street Journal poll: Do you support the Texas Board of Education’s plan for social studies curriculum changes that portray America as a nation rooted in Biblical values?

Jump to bottom

842 comments
1 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:21:56pm

Sigh.

I need the sweet release from reality that dreamwine brings.

Wake me up when they lose one.

2 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:23:26pm

The WSJ poll is now at 87% for NO. And their readers/subscribers are typically conservative people.

3 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:25:34pm

“NO’ is at 87% in that poll!
Good.

4 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:27:38pm

The poll is overwhelmingly tilted toward NO because PZ Myers linked to it. Before his link, it was 60% in favor.

5 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:29:28pm

re: #4 Charles

The poll is overwhelmingly tilted toward NO because PZ Myers linked to it. Before his link, it was 60% in favor.

I’m sure the natural tendency would be a poll result that reflects a number that puts the USA one notch over Turkey.

/

6 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:30:11pm

re: #4 Charles

I tweeted it out to #skeptic and a few other spots, but I bet that poll turns around tomorrow after sermons in Texas.

7 pingjockey  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:30:14pm

Goddamn asshats. I’m a conservative and this isn’t correct.

8 Kragar (Antichrist )  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:30:37pm

Texas, taking the lead for dumb inbred hicks in the 21st century

9 austin_blue  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:31:33pm

Hey Reine! I’m grieving over stories like this:

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

10 pingjockey  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:32:18pm

Halp! Didn’t the founders use a number of different documents to end up with the Declaration of Independence and the Constituition? It’s been a while since I took a history class of any kind.

11 The Curmudgeon  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:32:52pm

Fox News has been covering the thing, in a way. They’ve been entirely sympathetic to the creationist-theocrats. They had Cynthia Dunbar on this morning, and treated her well, even though she’s just as bad as McLeroy.

12 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:33:06pm

I find it ironic that Republicans in Texas are striking the first Republican president from their history books.

13 Kragar (Antichrist )  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:34:37pm

re: #12 TampaKnight

I find it ironic that Republicans in Texas are striking the first Republican president from their history books.

Irony is lost on these people.

14 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:35:46pm

be back later… I’m working on the riding lawnmower. When I went to replace the blades because the old ones were getting realll stubby (six yrs old…) I found out that the skirt was bent in at the front from … *cough* driver error *cough* which meant the new blades won’t spin without hitting the skirt….

I tried the car’s screwjack to bend it back out without much luck, so the single jack was next. It worked… one blade spins. Now for the next…. later all.

15 austin_blue  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:36:12pm

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Texas, taking the lead for dumb inbred hicks in the 21st century

Yup. Our new State song:

Pitiful, pitiful, pitiful.

16 Kragar (Antichrist )  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:36:28pm

re: #10 pingjockey

Halp! Didn’t the founders use a number of different documents to end up with the Declaration of Independence and the Constituition? It’s been a while since I took a history class of any kind.

No. They just used the Bible.

I read that in my History textbook I got from Texas.

17 pingjockey  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:37:31pm

How much creationist stuff did they manage to get in? How long before the Islamists, Hindus, Buddists, etc…sue to have their version of creation put into text books? Frakkin’ idiots.

18 pingjockey  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:38:18pm

re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Heh. / Sheesh.

19 Randy W. Weeks  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:41:00pm

It would be nice to hear the publishers say, “Uh, fuck you Texas.”

Geeze, I love this state and wouldn’t live anywhere else, but these damned fundamentalist are driving me crazy. Buncha damned fools and idiots.

20 Mark Pennington  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:41:16pm

These are people who do not take their jobs seriously, or even understand their jobs. They’re nothing but childish, simple-minded political hacks (and racist ones to boot), who don’t care about facts, don’t understand or respect education and have no business having so much power.

21 austin_blue  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:41:18pm

re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No. They just used the Bible.

I read that in my History textbook I got from Texas.

Their attitude is “The Bible says, I believe it, and that settles it.”

Pitiful, pitiful, pitiful.

22 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:41:23pm

Just a note but the boneheads actually put Thomas Jefferson back in:

Thomas Jefferson: This might not sound like much, but last month, he was stricken from the list of required Enlightenment thinkers and replaced with John Calvin. After much back-and-forth and all manner of compromise proposals, the author of the Declaration of the Independence is once again back in the good graces of the school board. The mood at Jefferson headquarters, so far as we can tell, is jubilant.

I don’t know if that comes with any qualifiers and caveats.

More here.

23 Kragar (Antichrist )  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:42:14pm

re: #21 austin_blue

Their attitude is “The Bible says, I believe it, and that settles it.”

Pitiful, pitiful, pitiful.

Beware of the person of one book.
Saint Thomas Aquinas

24 ProdSlash  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:43:48pm

So I think Texas was envious of Arizona taking #1 in the dumbass state competition.

25 Jack Burton  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:45:35pm

I expect that Conservapedia will be OK to use as a source for research papers in Texas High Schools soon.

26 Kragar (Antichrist )  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:46:23pm

re: #25 ArchangelMichael

I expect that Conservapedia will be OK to use as a source for research papers in Texas High Schools soon.

NOT IN THE BIBLE!
/

27 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:47:06pm

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

NOT IN THE BIBLE!
/

But but… according to Conservapedia the Bible is wrong!

28 ProdSlash  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:47:34pm

re: #4 Charles

The poll is overwhelmingly tilted toward NO because PZ Myers linked to it. Before his link, it was 60% in favor.

And no one was worried when Rupert Murdoch took over the WSJ. You used to be able to find some decent reasoning over there.

29 austin_blue  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:47:54pm

re: #21 austin_blue

Their attitude is “The Bible says *it*, I believe it, and that settles it.”

Pitiful, pitiful, pitiful.

PIMF.

Oops, second half is starting on FOX.

30 Jack Burton  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:48:34pm

Texas High School student term paper:

Evilution and Adam and Steve: Why do Liberals hate everything good, decent, and wholesome?

31 euphgeek  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:49:13pm

re: #19 LoneStarSpur

It would be nice to hear the publishers say, “Uh, fuck you Texas.”

That’s what I was hoping for, too. But unfortunately the publishers are probably more interested in making a buck than teaching accurate history.

32 ProdSlash  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:49:46pm

re: #31 euphgeek

Probably? I think that’s virtually guaranteed.

33 abolitionist  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:49:50pm

re: #17 pingjockey

How much creationist stuff did they manage to get in? How long before the Islamists, Hindus, Buddists, etc…sue to have their version of creation put into text books? Frakkin’ idiots.

In God, Jesus, Mohamed, Mary, Joseph Smith, Gandhi, Jefferson, Athena, Buddha, the Holy See, the UN and the IRS we Trust.

By Jove, I think that might work. Oh wait..

34 pingjockey  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:51:16pm

re: #33 abolitionist
Heh. They’re a buncha assholes. Just do the history without any damn political embellishments.

35 euphgeek  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:51:30pm

re: #32 ProdSlash

You’re right, I was being too optimistic.

36 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:51:50pm

re: #30 ArchangelMichael

Texas High School student term paper:

Evilution and Adam and Steve: Why do Liberals hate everything good, decent, and wholesome?

A+!

37 austin_blue  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:52:44pm

re: #30 ArchangelMichael

Texas High School student term paper:

Evilution and Adam and Steve: Why do Liberals hate everything good, decent, and wholesome?

That’s just the way we roll. We all worship Satan, too!

///

38 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:53:17pm

If you want to see a world of hurt just read the comments here:

New Guidelines for Texas Textbooks %P% The FOX Nation

Samples:

The enemy of the state and people has become the Democratic party..It is treason for elected representatives to stand as one with a foreign leader in opposition of US citizens. All the traitors should be taken to the gallows.
Saturday, May 22, 2010 at 03:28 PM
—-
What is so hard about teaching facts, Black Panthers are a violent based organization, T. Jefferson was not the only founding father, Affirmative action has backfired and Social Security was robbed by the Congress to supplement other entitlement programs. Why not teach the truth?
—-
This is one more step on the way home. Impeach the dictator now. I`ve had enough of his whole “change” thing.

39 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:53:35pm

re: #37 austin_blue

That’s just the way we roll. We all worship Satan, too!

///

Doing the Devil’s work, one civil right at a time.

40 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:53:55pm

Actually, in a nod to the criticism, the TX board put Jefferson back on the list of philosophers. He’d never been written out of the history standards, incidentally.

41 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:54:42pm

How is replacing Jefferson with fuckin’ John Calvin not a violation of Church-State separation that could be taken before the Supreme Court?

(I really, really want to visit Switzerland again, for the lack of minarets and to piss on Calvin’s grave.)

42 abolitionist  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:55:13pm

re: #37 austin_blue

I knew I was forgetting something.

43 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:56:11pm

re: #38 Gus 802

Here’s a couple more:

Anti-Lib

No dummy, mythology is what liberals have been teaching our children for 40 years. Liberals have denounced American exceptionalism, America’s great unselfish deeds, America’s righting of it’s own wrongs, America’s once economic might built on capitalism, America’s standing as a beacon of freedom around the world. Instead, liberals have taught our children that America is a selfish, mean, corrupt country who is to blame for all of the woes around the world. Sorry bucko, your time is up. We are taking our country back to it’s rightfull standing as the place of rugged individualism, pride, freedom, and a place deserving of all of God’s blessings….you libs have attempted to make us Cuba or Venezuela and you have failed, your time is up.
Saturday, May 22, 2010 at 08:12 AM
—-
Poor Working Tax- Payer

The liberals have sunk to a new Anti American low, Moveon.org and Organizing for America, SEIU have been twittering today to go to Fox Poll and vote to ban the Flag
And it is working; here are the current results as of 7:35 AM, May 22, 2010:
No. This is a lame decision. Teach the kids what the flag means, instead of banning it. 25%
Yes. The safety of students comes first. 59%
Not sure, but of all things to ban, the American flag would seem the least ‘incendiary.’

44 euphgeek  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:56:26pm

re: #38 Gus 802

Sadly, that’s typical for the right-wing nutjobs.

45 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:58:01pm

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Texas, taking the lead for dumb inbred hicks in the 21st century

Not a chance of that. West Virginia has a lock on inbred. All those tight mountain valleys. Cousin marriages are not a Texas thing. All those wide open plains. On top of which, a great many Texans come from somewhere else.

46 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 12:58:48pm

OT: follow up to the overnight Pipe bomb incident —
Ooops… I think I just blowed up myself instead of my Ex….

/ok normally I don’t make fun of the recently deceased, but if there’s a Darwin Award in need of an awardee….

47 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:00:47pm

I denounce American exceptionalism with every breath I talk. It’s a myth.

48 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:01:18pm

“take”

49 Kragar (Antichrist )  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:01:23pm

California bill takes aim at new Texas standards

A new bill introduced in the state Senate by Sen. Leland Yee (D-San Francisco) seeks to ensure that none of the Texas standards are allowed to be used in California in any fashion.

Under Yee’s bill, SB1451, the California Board of Education would be required to look out for any of the Texas content as part of its standard practice of reviewing public school textbooks. The board must then report any findings to the legislature and to the secretary of education.

California education officials say they aren’t worried about any spillover. Tom Adams, director of the state Education Department’s standards and curriculum division, was quoted by the Associated Press as saying that the Texas standards could make their way into national editions of textbooks, but that California uses its own.

50 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:02:22pm

Oh, and fuck rugged individualism, too. It’s become a code word for the likes of Pamz Geller. Shove it sideways, Pamz.

51 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:02:29pm

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

California bill takes aim at new Texas standards

Now there’s something to stand behind. I hope more states follow suit.

52 Areozol  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:02:43pm

From across the Big Pond I can surely say: something is going wrong in the US of A.

OT:

Some time ago, I was reading Pajamasmedia, and considered it as a model form of blogging community.

Now I’m reading and subscribing Huffington Post. At least they are not publishing articles from people like Howard Nemerov or stuff like “Fight Illegal Immigration: Buy from Arizona”. It’s basically a Tea Party’s mouthpiece.

53 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:04:17pm

Hey, whoever tried to help me with that damn Pacman sound that I could not get to go away yesterday thanks, but it was actually a weird bug that only affected Firefox users who have the add-on CoolPreviews.
They did a fix this morning and it is gone.

54 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:05:41pm

re: #52 Areozol


Some time ago, I was reading Pajamasmedia, and considered it as a model form of blogging community.

I assume that was before Charles severed all ties?

55 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:06:47pm

re: #46 Thanos
And, in a related story, another work-place accident takes its toll….(sob)
[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

56 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:07:19pm

“Rugged individualist”: a libertarian in a toupee.

57 austin_blue  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:09:55pm

re: #55 tradewind

And, in a related story, another work-place accident takes its toll…(sob)
[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

Good. Riddance.

58 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:10:09pm

re: #56 Cato the Elder

“Rugged individualist”: a libertarian in a toupee.

Actually, it would be one sans toupee outdoors without a hat

“Look at me,, I can take those rays!”

59 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:10:09pm

re: #56 Cato the Elder

“Rugged individualist”: a libertarian in a toupee.

Rugged individualism? Is that like driving the original rugged individualists of North America, the American Indians, into remote corners of squalid land known as Indian Reservations?

60 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:11:16pm

re: #4 Charles

The poll is overwhelmingly tilted toward NO because PZ Myers linked to it. Before his link, it was 60% in favor.

I love it when a nonsense poll gets Pharyngulated.

61 simoom  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:11:42pm

re: #53 webevintage

… Pacman sound that I could not get to go away yesterday …

Did it have anything to do with the banner Google put up on their page that had/has a working Pacman clone running inside?

62 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:11:52pm

re: #7 pingjockey

Goddamn asshats. I’m a conservative and this isn’t correct.

Upding for the use of asshats.

63 freetoken  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:12:19pm

re: #59 Gus 802

Nah. “Rugged individualism” is the right to have a choice between buying a Japanese SUV or a German SUV to drive to NASCAR events.

64 pingjockey  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:12:44pm

re: #47 Cato the Elder
Why? It seems anytime something happens in the world, if the US doesn’t help, jack shit doesn’t get done. That is an oversimplification, however, if the tsunami victims had waited for the UN, help wouldn’t have got there as quick, Haiti, is the UN helping there? I also didn’t realize there was a huge line to immigrate to France as compared to here.

65 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:12:53pm

Excessive patriotism always leads to brain-cell death.

If these people had been born in Pakistan, they would now be supporting the Taliban.

66 Areozol  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:13:02pm

re: #54 JasonA

I assume that was before Charles severed all ties?

To be exact: first Mr. Charles disconnected from PJM, then I stopped subscribing PJM, after few months. I just could not believe how PJM could sink low.

67 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:14:13pm

Real rugged individualists don’t follow populist demagogues…

//Thomas Jefferson was a rugged individualist - he wrote his own bible because he didn’t like the one in common use….

68 pingjockey  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:14:35pm

re: #62 b_sharp
It’s a great word. Those people, the theocrats, socons, or whatever you wish to call them, are as bad as the extremist Islamists. Believe as we say, or else!

69 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:15:04pm

re: #64 pingjockey

Why? It seems anytime something happens in the world, if the US doesn’t help, jack shit doesn’t get done. That is an oversimplification, however, if the tsunami victims had waited for the UN, help wouldn’t have got there as quick, Haiti, is the UN helping there? I also didn’t realize there was a huge line to immigrate to France as compared to here.

Yes, America is God’s gift to the universe. No place has ever been as beautiful, or as generous, or as brave, or as full of beautiful wymyns, or as lucky, or as rich, or as overweening, or as rude, or as self-obsessed, or as culturally barren, or as whiny, or…

Wait, what? I guess we are pretty exceptional.

70 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:15:39pm

re: #63 freetoken

Nah. “Rugged individualism” is the right to have a choice between buying a Japanese SUV or a German SUV to drive to NASCAR events.

The other night I watched a video, Dangerous Roads, in Siberia. Talk about rugged individualism.

“Rugged individualism” is relative. All nations, societies and cultures have their own unique samples. It’s a common human trait anyway since it is and was essential for the survival of the human (primate) species.

71 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:15:58pm

re: #27 JasonA

But but… according to Conservapedia the Bible is wrong!

It ain’t conservative enough. I guess the Bible needs to include a few tea parties.

72 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:16:16pm

Ed Morrisey joins Alex Jones in denouncing the New World Order: Obama to West Point: You’re fighting for the New World Order, or something


The lesson from the past century is that these multinational organizations exist to maintain inertia and to hobble the democracies while giving tyrants a boost through moral relativism. In any case, telling West Point cadets that they’re fighting to establish an “international order” hardly seems like an inspirational moment.
73 pingjockey  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:17:29pm

re: #69 Cato the Elder
I asked a legitimate question. We aren’t perfect, not by a long freakin’ shot. I wanted to know what exceptionalism you are talking about?

74 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:17:52pm

re: #61 simoom

Did it have anything to do with the banner Google put up on their page that had/has a working Pacman clone running inside?

Yep.
But I did not get the bug until I went to Rachael Maddows blog where it was the top story.
So, so annoying….

75 freetoken  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:17:52pm

Put in the spin-offs:

“Heretical” Copernicus Reburied as a Hero

Seemed like an appropriate news item for today.

I wonder if the Texastan SBOE approves of Copernicus’s ideas?

76 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:17:58pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey joins Alex Jones in denouncing the New World Order: Obama to West Point: You’re fighting for the New World Order, or something

I think Ed needs to rewind the tape and go back in American history. He doesn’t have to go very far. Just start with President George H. W. Bush.

77 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:18:23pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey joins Alex Jones in denouncing the New World Order: Obama to West Point: You’re fighting for the New World Order, or something

Full text of President Obama’s Speech here:

[Link: www.cbsnews.com…]

78 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:18:33pm

Okay,, so reading through the rest of the article I have to say I agree this is not good

That stated, I’m not sure as to why “requiring history teachers and textbooks to provide coverage on the late U.S. Sen. Ted Kennedy while the late President Ronald Reagan was elevated to more prominent coverage in the curriculum. ” is controversial?

Shouldn’t a President have more prominent coverage than a senator, especially a senator that was NOT from that state?

79 Areozol  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:18:38pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

This guy is behind Captains Quarters? Oh God…

the process of mainstreaming conspiracy theories is just creepy…

80 political lunatic  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:18:54pm

I’m just surprised that they didn’t go so far as to put something like “Some say Hitler wasn’t so bad, because (insert bullshit reason here)” in textbooks. They might as well could have since they changed the name of the slave trade to the “Atlantic triangular trade”, as if slavery wasn’t morally wrong.

81 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:19:40pm

re: #48 Cato the Elder

“take”

Works both ways.

82 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:20:05pm

re: #80 political lunatic

I’m just surprised that they didn’t go so far as to put something like “Some say Hitler wasn’t so bad, because (insert bullshit reason here)” in textbooks. They might as well could have since they changed the name of the slave trade to the “Atlantic triangular trade”, as if slavery wasn’t morally wrong.

Covered on the Joseph Kennedy/ Charles Lindburgh section!

83 Kragar (Antichrist )  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:21:12pm

How long until they present a list of great political thinkers of the 20th century and throw Robertson, Buchanan and Falwell on it?

84 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:21:13pm

re: #50 Cato the Elder

Oh, and fuck rugged individualism, too. It’s become a code word for the likes of Pamz Geller. Shove it sideways, Pamz.

What exactly is rugged individualism? Living in a cave by yourself while eating bugs?

85 austin_blue  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:21:26pm

re: #75 freetoken

Put in the spin-offs:

“Heretical” Copernicus Reburied as a Hero

Seemed like an appropriate news item for today.

I wonder if the Texastan SBOE approves of Copernicus’s ideas?

Is he a American? No?

Then no.

86 Areozol  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:22:16pm

re: #77 Thanos

You know what is funny?

“World order” is a common phrase used in political science to describe the outlook of international politics, both contemporary and in the history.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Conspiracy kooks are simply hijacking this phrase for their loony theories.

87 pingjockey  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:22:19pm

Between idiots screwing up text books, maniacs shooting cops and Luap Dnar, I’ve had enough, nap time. Later folks.

88 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:22:32pm

re: #78 sattv4u2

Okay,, so reading through the rest of the article I have to say I agree this is not good

That stated, I’m not sure as to why gave a thumbs down to requiring history teachers and textbooks to provide coverage on the late U.S. Sen. Ted Kennedy while the late President Ronald Reagan was elevated to more prominent coverage in the curriculum. ” is controversial?

Shouldn’t a President have more prominent coverage than a senator, especially a senator that was NOT from that state?

pimf

89 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:22:38pm

re: #76 Gus 802

He mentions Bush….

Bush 41’s idea of a “new world order” preceded the explosion of Islamist terrorism against the US, which the UN, the IAEA, and other multinationals proved inadequate or completely anachronistic to confront.

Is he blaming Bush’s interventionist approach for the rise of Islamic terrorism? Probably.

90 political lunatic  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:23:25pm

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Give them a week. After all, (I think) they did include a section on how good for America right wing hate radio talkers like Limbaugh are.

91 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:23:39pm

oh texas board uh edyakashun u so unamerican

92 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:24:00pm

re: #73 pingjockey

I asked a legitimate question. We aren’t perfect, not by a long freakin’ shot. I wanted to know what exceptionalism you are talking about?

It’s a doctrine. Called “American exceptionalism”. There are various versions, but the one I’m objecting to is the theological explanation, which says that God has given us a special place among nations. It’s so wide-open to abuse that you could - and people have done it already - drive trucks full of genocide, jingoism, race-hatred, slavery, Manifest Destiny, imperialism and death through it.

The shining city on the hill whose effluents everyone else has to eat.

93 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:24:03pm

re: #84 b_sharp

What exactly is rugged individualism? Living in a cave by yourself while eating bugs?

For me, while on a business trip, checking into a Hyatt and finding out it the kitchen is NOT open after 1 am for room service!

94 palomino  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:24:40pm

re: #80 political lunatic

I’m just surprised that they didn’t go so far as to put something like “Some say Hitler wasn’t so bad, because (insert bullshit reason here)” in textbooks. They might as well could have since they changed the name of the slave trade to the “Atlantic triangular trade”, as if slavery wasn’t morally wrong.

I think my “favorite” is the contention that the Civil War was fought over “states’ rights, NOT slavery” (as if there was a difference).

Some of the BOE’s recommendations have a definite neo-Confederate feel—for example, the recommendation that Jefferson Davis be elevated to the status of Lincoln in curricula.

95 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:24:52pm

re: #77 Thanos

This seems to be the section that strikes fear into the hearts of wingnuts….

Yes, we are clear-eyed about the shortfalls of our international system. But America has not succeeded by stepping out of the currents of cooperation - we have succeeded by steering those currents in the direction of liberty and justice, so nations thrive by meeting their responsibilities and face consequences when they don’t.

So we have to shape an international order that can meet the challenges of our generation. We will be steadfast in strengthening those old alliances that have served us so well, including those who will serve by your side in Afghanistan and around the globe. As influence extends to more countries and capitals, we also have to build new partnerships, and shape stronger international standards and institutions.


FEMA CAMPS!

96 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:25:25pm

re: #84 b_sharp

What exactly is rugged individualism? Living in a cave by yourself while eating bugs?

Basically it’s sitting pretty while claiming you would never, ever take help from anyone. Not if you were starving in the gutter. Nope, no sir, welfare is for maggots.

97 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:25:26pm

re: #84 b_sharp

What exactly is rugged individualism? Living in a cave by yourself while eating bugs?

It’s driving a Dodge Ram upholstered in American flags while smoking a hundred marlboros at once and looking out onto the Texas desert with a single tear in your eye, stroking your manliest of manly beards that is thicker than steel woll

98 Renaissance_Man  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:25:58pm

re: #64 pingjockey

Why? It seems anytime something happens in the world, if the US doesn’t help, jack shit doesn’t get done. That is an oversimplification, however, if the tsunami victims had waited for the UN, help wouldn’t have got there as quick, Haiti, is the UN helping there? I also didn’t realize there was a huge line to immigrate to France as compared to here.

What a bizarre notion.

Contrary to popular belief in the US, the world is not divided into ‘USA’ and ‘foreign people’. While it may seem to you like ‘nothing ever gets done unless the US is involved’, is it, perhaps, just possible that you don’t hear about it unless the US is involved? Could it be that stories about a couple of other nations being involved in something that doesn’t impact on US politics or interests somehow don’t make it onto the cable news cycle?

The world is not divided into ‘US government’ and ‘UN’ either. Yes, as it happens, other nations do get involved in natural disasters around the world. Sometimes they even give more aid than the US. Sometimes they even do it without answering to some mythical one world government.

And as for immigration, America is 31st. And while it is a popular destination for immigrants, its popularity is similar to other Western First World nations.

99 pingjockey  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:26:00pm

re: #92 Cato the Elder
Gotcha. Thank whomever, I went to school in the 60s and they didn’t teach that, or if they did, it didn’t take!

100 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:26:48pm

re: #95 Killgore Trout

This seems to be the section that strikes fear into the hearts of wingnuts…


FEMA CAMPS!

heh ,,, you must be having a terrible week. 1st, the stretch of bad weather where you are, then dnaR luaP, now this

Should we remove sharp objects from your reach??
//

101 freetoken  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:26:59pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

He mentions Bush…

Is he blaming Bush’s interventionist approach for the rise of Islamic terrorism? Probably.

They’re all headed towards PaleoPat-Land.

If Obama is waging war in Afghanistan, and since Obama is the Anti-Christ, then the war is bad.

In the end I doubt many of them will blame “America”; rather, I can see them blaming the Jews banking establishment for whom Obama works.

102 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:27:04pm

re: #65 Cato the Elder

Excessive patriotism always leads to brain-cell death.

If these people had been born in Pakistan, they would now be supporting the Taliban.

“Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.”

-Oscar Wilde

103 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:27:27pm

Hilarious spin attempt from Fox News…..
Arizona Boycotts Could Hit Hispanic Hospitality Workers

Oddly enough the article lacks any quotes of concern from actual Hispanic hospitality workers.

104 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:27:45pm

Don’t know if this was mentioned yesterday but SEIU thugs went to the HOME of a BOA Executive, stormed his private property, and scared his kid to the point of locking himself in the bathroom.

Sad.

105 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:28:09pm

More from Obama today:

“More than anything else, though, our success will be claimed by who we are as a country. This is more important than ever, given the nature of the challenges that we face. Our campaign to disrupt, dismantle, and to defeat al Qaeda is part of an international effort that is necessary and just.

But this is a different kind of war. There will be no simple moment of surrender to mark the journey’s end - no armistice, no banner headline. Though we have had more success in eliminating al Qaeda leaders in recent months than in recent years, they will continue to recruit, and plot, and exploit our open society. We see that in bombs that go off in Kabul and Karachi. We see it in attempts to blow up an airliner over Detroit or an SUV in Times Square, even as these failed attacks show that pressure on networks like al Qaeda is forcing them to rely on terrorists with less time and space to train. We see the potential duration of this struggle in al Qaeda’s gross distortions of Islam, their disrespect for human life, and their attempt to prey upon fear and hatred and prejudice.

So the threat will not go away soon, but let’s be clear: Al Qaeda and its affiliates are small men on the wrong side of history. They lead no nation. They lead no religion. We need not give in to fear every time a terrorist tries to scare us. We should not discard our freedoms because extremists try to exploit them. We cannot succumb to division because others try to drive us apart. We are the United States of America. (Applause.) We are the United States of America, and we have repaired our union, and faced down fascism, and outlasted communism. We’ve gone through turmoil, we’ve gone through Civil War, and we have come out stronger - and we will do so once more. (Applause.) “

ZOMG!!!111!!!!
He did not use the word Islamofascists!!!111!!!!
/

106 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:29:05pm

re: #69 Cato the Elder

Yes, America is God’s gift to the universe. No place has ever been as beautiful, or as generous, or as brave, or as full of beautiful wymyns, or as lucky, or as rich, or as overweening, or as rude, or as self-obsessed, or as culturally barren, or as whiny, or…

Wait, what? I guess we are pretty exceptional.

I take exception to that well-worn ‘culturally barren.’ meme. Year in and year out, the U.S. produces more quality film, music, architecture, sculpture, painting (etc., the list is hardly inclusive) than most of the countries of the world put together. There is simply no comparison - unless you want to go back to the Medicis or the Bourbons.

107 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:29:09pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey joins Alex Jones in denouncing the New World Order: Obama to West Point: You’re fighting for the New World Order, or something

As I suspected. Most of what Obama spoke of is part of the current military curriculum. I’m pretty sure some of what was called “international order” is even being taught at West Point.

Here are some examples from US military sites: “international order” site:*.mil.

From Paradigm Lost?: Transitions and the Search for a New World Order by Dr. David Jablonsky at the U.S. Army War College • Strategic Studies Institute:


The defeat of the Soviet Union settled the remaining issues left over from World War II with the exception of a divided Korea and the Russian occupation of the Kurile Islands. After both the major wars of this century, it took some time for the international order to settle into what proved to be a relatively stable period until overturned by the next war (or war equivalent). A similar process is currently underway throughout the world in this third major transition period for the United States in the 20th century. Moreover, the victors of the cold war, like their predecessors in 1918 and 1945, are proclaiming a new world order in which, as President Bush described it, “nations recognize the shared responsibility for freedom and justice…where the strong respect the rights of the weak.”

For American statesmen, a similar success in achieving the implementation of a strategic vision to guide the United States through this third major transition of the 20th century will require that they successfully issue a new call to greatness to the American people. This time, however, there will be no clarion calls for stirring crusades against fascism and communism. Instead, the call must be focused on creating stability in the international order, on averting chaos in an anarchical world. The problem is that while equilibrium is a necessity for that stability, it does not constitute a sufficient purpose for the American people, with their historic sense of mission. Peace must be presented as more than the absence of conflict. Stability must be perceived as a bridge to the realization of human aspirations, not an end in itself.

Or,

Title: North Korea The Reality of a Rogue State in the International Order
Descriptive Note : Master’s thesis
Corporate Author : NAVAL POSTGRADUATE SCHOOL MONTEREY CA

Abstract : This thesis examines what it means to be a rogue state in a world in which the international order is increasingly becoming interdependent. The last two U.S. administrations as well as the other major powers, The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) has been labeled by as a pariah state exhibiting rogue behavior. This thesis analyzes the varied and competing views of the international order and measures how North Korea does or does not fit the parameters of what it means to be a normal state. Since its creation in 1948, North Korea has pursued policies of limited engagement heavily influenced by an ideology that markedly contradicts the commonly accepted values and principles of the majority of the states in the international system. After the Cold War, the DPRK has further alienated the other players in the system with continued proliferation attempts as well as brinkmanship negotiating behavior. In order for the current Six Party Talks to be successful, the major powers involved need to understand the perspective with which north Korea views the international order.

108 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:29:14pm

re: #92 Cato the Elder

It’s a doctrine. Called “American exceptionalism”. There are various versions, but the one I’m objecting to is the theological explanation, which says that God has given us a special place among nations. It’s so wide-open to abuse that you could - and people have done it already - drive trucks full of genocide, jingoism, race-hatred, slavery, Manifest Destiny, imperialism and death through it.

The shining city on the hill whose effluents everyone else has to eat.

It is part of a great tradition that has included German exceptionalism, Soviet exceptionalism, French exceptionalism, Spanish exceptionalism, Roman exceptionalism, Mongolian exceptionalism, Greek exceptionalism, Egyptian exceptionalism, Babylonian exceptionalism, Persian exceptionalsm, Assyrian exceptionalism, etc.

And is destined to wind up on the same heap as all its predecessors.

109 palomino  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:30:01pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

Hilarious spin attempt from Fox News…
Arizona Boycotts Could Hit Hispanic Hospitality Workers

Oddly enough the article lacks any quotes of concern from actual Hispanic hospitality workers.

That’s reminiscent of the bankrupt 1980s argument that boycotting South Africa over apartheid would hurt poor blacks who lived there. Invariably it was white westerners (who profited from business dealings with the racist SA govt) that made this argument, not the actual blacks who would allegedly be further harmed.

110 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:30:08pm

re: #104 TampaKnight

Don’t know if this was mentioned yesterday but SEIU thugs went to the HOME of a BOA Executive, stormed his private property, and scared his kid to the point of locking himself in the bathroom.

Sad.

You’re the second person to bring that up today, and the second one not to provide a link.

Surely you must know by now that no one will just take your word for it?

Especially not if you dogwhistle the word “thugs”.

111 austin_blue  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:30:15pm

re: #102 WindUpBird

“Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.”

-Oscar Wilde

By Jingo! I think he’s right!

112 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:30:40pm

re: #110 Cato the Elder

You’re the second person to bring that up today, and the second one not to provide a link.

Surely you must know by now that no one will just take your word for it?

Especially not if you dogwhistle the word “thugs”.

Here you go. Also, a simple Google news search would bring up tons of articles.

[Link: money.cnn.com…]

113 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:30:55pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

He mentions Bush…

Is he blaming Bush’s interventionist approach for the rise of Islamic terrorism? Probably.

Ignorance. Ed Morrissey is living in his own little “private universe” and incapable of accepting the realities of an ever increasing international order of things.

114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:31:39pm

re: #104 TampaKnight

Don’t know if this was mentioned yesterday but SEIU thugs went to the HOME of a BOA Executive, stormed his private property, and scared his kid to the point of locking himself in the bathroom.

Sad.

Not as sad and as significant as what BOA is doing and has done to people but you know, anecdotes about meany mean union meanies shouting (OH SHIT THEY SHOUTED! STOP THE PRESSES OMG) are more fun to talk about than the far reaching implications of the mortgage crisis, because financial crises aren’t as sexy

Also LOLOLOL Fortune columnist whines and whines [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

115 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:32:36pm

re: #106 ryannon

I take exception to that well-worn ‘culturally barren.’ meme. Year in and year out, the U.S. produces more quality film, music, architecture, sculpture, painting (etc., the list is hardly inclusive) than most of the countries of the world put together. There is simply no comparison - unless you want to go back to the Medicis or the Bourbons.

Fixed that for you.

Unfortunately, most of what we produce is ugly.

And really? Sculpture, painting, music, more than the rest of the world combined? How much culture from the rest of the world do you actually follow?

116 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:32:51pm

re: #113 Gus 802

Ignorance. Ed Morrissey is living in his own little “private universe” and incapable of accepting the realities of an ever increasing international order of things.

He goes about things his own way!

He is human and he wants to be loved!

117 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:32:52pm

re: #114 WindUpBird

Not as sad and as significant as what BOA is doing and has done to people but you know, anecdotes about meany mean union meanies shouting (OH SHIT THEY SHOUTED! STOP THE PRESSES OMG) are more fun to talk about than the far reaching implications of the mortgage crisis, because financial crises aren’t as sexy

Also LOLOLOL Fortune columnist whines and whines [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

Funny- if you replace “BOA” with “Government employee” and the union people with “tea partiers”, I’m sure you’d be sharing my disgust for these actions.

Don’t take sides on stupidity and extremism.

118 freetoken  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:33:59pm

re: #115 Cato the Elder

Unfortunately, most of what we produce is ugly.


Especially the “architecture” part.

119 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:34:32pm

re: #117 TampaKnight

Funny- if you replace “BOA” with “Government employee” and the union people with “tea partiers”, I’m sure you’d be sharing my disgust for these actions.

Don’t take sides on stupidity and extremism.

LOL@Stupidfalseequivalency.com

120 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:34:49pm

re: #112 TampaKnight

Here you go. Also, a simple Google news search would bring up tons of articles.

[Link: money.cnn.com…]

An obvious photoshop

umm, err,, Tea Party! ,,,


ahhh,, hey, at least all the signs are spelled correctly!!

121 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:34:51pm

re: #118 freetoken

Especially the “architecture” part.

More grey glass boxes!

My god, it’s beautiful!

122 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:35:03pm

A NEWER WORLD ORDER - THE RETURN TO A MULTIPOLAR ERA
by Lieutenant Colonel Robert L. DeYeso Jr.
United States Army

Following its turbulent revolution, a preponderant France, led by Napoleon Bonaparte, constituted the first real threat to the international order established at Westphalia.
—-
The Truman Doctrine was the embodiment of the strategy proposed by Kennan. The United States would actively oppose the Soviet Union whenever and wherever it sought to expand its ideological influence. Thus began the “Cold War,” a phrase that journalist Herbert Bayard Swope used in 1947 to best describe the chronic state of hostility between the United States and the Soviet Union.28 Now the world would see a new type of superpower conflict, one fought by every means possible except military. Robert Libbon creatively uses a sports analogy to describe this new international order. “The international balance of power, once an intricate system of alliances, ententes and state systems, had become part of a global skins-and-shirts game, you either played for the Soviet Union or the United States; it was a very small league.” Stalin’s Communist governments in Eastern Europe created two Europe’s divided by an “Iron Curtain.” By implementing the Truman Doctrine, the United States had clearly opted for western unity rather than any further East-West negotiations.

123 KingKenrod  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:35:21pm

re: #117 TampaKnight

Funny- if you replace “BOA” with “Government employee” and the union people with “tea partiers”, I’m sure you’d be sharing my disgust for these actions.

Don’t take sides on stupidity and extremism.

Or you could compare and contrast reactions to this protest with the reaction to gateway pundit’s idiotic coffin stunt.

124 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:35:46pm

re: #119 WindUpBird

LOL@Stupidfalseequivalency.com

It’s sad that you seemingly support this type of action when it fits your views.

125 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:36:09pm

re: #112 TampaKnight

Here you go. Also, a simple Google news search would bring up tons of articles.

[Link: money.cnn.com…]

You bring it up, you do the googling.

And fuck Greg Baer. A man whose main job is to take away other people’s homes should not be upset if some of those people come and wave signs outside of his.

126 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:36:13pm

To be honest I’m not in favor of anyone protesting in front of someone else’s home, whether it’s a government employee, a BoA… person, or an abortion doctor.

127 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:36:42pm

re: #117 TampaKnight

Funny- if you replace “BOA” with “Government employee” and the union people with “tea partiers”, I’m sure you’d be sharing my disgust for these actions.

Don’t take sides on stupidity and extremism.


Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

128 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:37:17pm

re: #125 Cato the Elder

You bring it up, you do the googling.

And fuck Greg Baer. A man whose main job is to take away other people’s homes should not be upset if some of those people come and wave signs outside of his.

The point is this:

DON’T TAKE SIDES OR DOUBLE TALK ON EXTREMIST ACTIONS THAT CLEARLY SHOULD INCLUDE STORMING PRIVATE PROPERTY WITH THE INTENT TO INTIMIDATE OR INCITE VIOLENCE.

What is so fucking hard to understand?

Protest at the fucking Bank, Wall Street, WHATEVER. Leave homes out of it.

129 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:37:21pm

re: #112 TampaKnight

re: #120 sattv4u2

An obvious photoshop

umm, err,, Tea Party! ,,,


ahhh,, hey, at least all the signs are spelled correctly!!

((although,, one lady is holding hers upsice down ,, perhaps so she can read it!!))

130 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:37:21pm

re: #127 Varek Raith

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.


ho

lee

shit

!

131 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:37:23pm

Blame the protesters! Why are they so pissed off? I wonder…thinking…thinking

ennedy told HuffPost she’d been making reduced monthly payments thanks to a trial modification via the Home Affordable Modification Program. She said that when the bank turned her down for a permanent mod, she was told she still owed all the money she’d been paying during the trial. She said she’s been notified of several sheriff’s sale dates but has somehow managed to keep her home.

“Every time I’m inches away from losing my house, by some miracle it’s been pushed off,” said Kennedy, who is a member of Illinois People’s Action.

Oh yeah, that’s right! Because the scumbags are playing games with people’s mortgages and their lives. It’s been ALL OVER THE NEWS FOR MONTHS

but let’s blame the protesters, that’s fuuunnn

132 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:37:32pm

re: #105 webevintage

More from Obama today:

“More than anything else, though, our success will be claimed by who we are as a country. This is more important than ever, given the nature of the challenges that we face. Our campaign to disrupt, dismantle, and to defeat al Qaeda is part of an international effort that is necessary and just.

But this is a different kind of war. There will be no simple moment of surrender to mark the journey’s end - no armistice, no banner headline. Though we have had more success in eliminating al Qaeda leaders in recent months than in recent years, they will continue to recruit, and plot, and exploit our open society. We see that in bombs that go off in Kabul and Karachi. We see it in attempts to blow up an airliner over Detroit or an SUV in Times Square, even as these failed attacks show that pressure on networks like al Qaeda is forcing them to rely on terrorists with less time and space to train. We see the potential duration of this struggle in al Qaeda’s gross distortions of Islam, their disrespect for human life, and their attempt to prey upon fear and hatred and prejudice.

So the threat will not go away soon, but let’s be clear: Al Qaeda and its affiliates are small men on the wrong side of history. They lead no nation. They lead no religion. We need not give in to fear every time a terrorist tries to scare us. We should not discard our freedoms because extremists try to exploit them. We cannot succumb to division because others try to drive us apart. We are the United States of America. (Applause.) We are the United States of America, and we have repaired our union, and faced down fascism, and outlasted communism. We’ve gone through turmoil, we’ve gone through Civil War, and we have come out stronger - and we will do so once more. (Applause.) “

ZOMG!!!111!!!
He did not use the word Islamofascists!!!111!!!
/

Any chance we in Canada could trade our cherished Harper for your hated Obama?

133 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:37:46pm

re: #124 TampaKnight

It’s sad that you seemingly support this type of action when it fits your views.

weaksauce@bullshitconcerntroll.com

134 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:38:23pm

re: #131 WindUpBird

Blame the protesters! Why are they so pissed off? I wonder…thinking…thinking

Oh yeah, that’s right! Because the scumbags are playing games with people’s mortgages and their lives. It’s been ALL OVER THE NEWS FOR MONTHS

but let’s blame the protesters, that’s fuuunnn

You sound like a left leaning tea bagger.

135 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:38:26pm

re: #115 Cato the Elder

Fixed that for you.

Unfortunately, most of what we produce is ugly.

And really? Sculpture, painting, music, more than the rest of the world combined? How much culture from the rest of the world do you actually follow?

I have to take you to task about that blanket assumption. Firstly, remember, 90% of everything is bullshit, America just turns it out in such astounding volume that the good stuff gets overwhelmed by the mass of bad.

But the rest of the world must be desperate for culture if they lap our stuff up so vigorously and emulate it in their own cultures.

Europans, for example, have a lot more state-sponsored art, but I can assure that is also 90% bullshit, too. I see it as even more so because these people get their money up front for producing this pretentions crap.

136 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:39:15pm

re: #127 Varek Raith

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

/and Soros spelled backwards is Soros… what does it all mean?

137 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:39:34pm

re: #136 brookly red

/and Soros spelled backwards is Soros… what does it all mean?

Something!11!!!~

138 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:39:39pm

re: #128 TampaKnight

The point is this:

DON’T TAKE SIDES OR DOUBLE TALK ON EXTREMIST ACTIONS THAT CLEARLY SHOULD INCLUDE STORMING PRIVATE PROPERTY WITH THE INTENT TO INTIMIDATE OR INCITE VIOLENCE.

What is so fucking hard to understand?

Protest at the fucking Bank, Wall Street, WHATEVER. Leave homes out of it.

I am not moved to tears.

139 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:40:04pm

re: #136 brookly red

/and Soros spelled backwards is Soros… what does it all mean?


And Toyota spelled backwards is “Atoyot”

Shouldn’t they be building model boats?

140 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:41:04pm

It’s utterly sad that people on THIS board seem fine with these thugs showing up at a HOUSE to intimidate, yet share “outrage” when tea baggers do very similar bullshit.

Apparently denouncing extremism only swings in one direction for many of you.

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:41:29pm

The problem, Tampaknight, is you are clumsily and in a very dull way attempting to equate “protesters angry at banks playing games with their very lives” with “tea-party nativist birchers who call the president a n*** and advocate the overthrow of the government through violent means”

You just keep on keepin’ on with your false equivalency, it’s the name of the game, it’s the new sensation everyone’s talking about

142 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:42:12pm

re: #134 TampaKnight

You sound like a left leaning tea bagger.

Say it with me, to the tune of that Gary Glitter song

nah nah nah nah

concern troll!

nah nah NAH nah nah

143 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:42:31pm

re: #141 WindUpBird

The problem, Tampaknight, is you are clumsily and in a very dull way attempting to equate “protesters angry at banks playing games with their very lives” with “tea-party nativist birchers who call the president a n*** and advocate the overthrow of the government through violent means”

You just keep on keepin’ on with your false equivalency, it’s the name of the game, it’s the new sensation everyone’s talking about

You don’t get it, and apparently you’re too dense to get it. The tea baggers ARE USING THE EXACT SAME REASONS TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS- THE GOVERNMENT IS PLAYING GAMES WITH THEIR LIVES.

I guess you can’t step back to see it.

144 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:42:51pm

Also, no matter how righteous your indignation, the caps lock button does not improve your argument. Ever.

145 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:43:28pm

re: #144 Cato the Elder

Also, no matter how righteous your indignation, the caps lock button does not improve your argument. Ever.

BULLSHIT!
Image: lemnpcta.jpeg

146 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:43:30pm

re: #144 Cato the Elder

Also, no matter how righteous your indignation, the caps lock button does not improve your argument. Ever.

HUH? ;)

j/k

147 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:43:35pm

re: #115 Cato the Elder

Fixed that for you.

Unfortunately, most of what we produce is ugly.

And really? Sculpture, painting, music, more than the rest of the world combined? How much culture from the rest of the world do you actually follow?

I’m not even going to try and take this any further. My condolences if all you see is the ugly or the mediocre in American cultural production. Being geographically separated from for the last four decades has sharpened my perceptions of what actually is and the perception of the same by certain ill-informed or prejudiced observers. Personally, I wouldn’t care if it was Albania or Swaziland rather than the U.S. I don’t receive any royalties or residuals in any case. But since what you term ‘culture’ has become something vital in my life, I’m quite attentive to both its quality and where it’s coming from. Once again, the U.S. wins, hands-down.

But if all you want to admit is the ugly, remember that it’s a choice rather than an inevitable condition.

148 Areozol  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:43:35pm

re: #122 Gus 802

Thids is exactly what I had in mind here: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

149 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:43:45pm

re: #140 TampaKnight

It’s utterly sad that people on THIS board seem fine with these thugs showing up at a HOUSE to intimidate, yet share “outrage” when tea baggers do very similar bullshit.

Apparently denouncing extremism only swings in one direction for many of you.

It’s probably within their rights to show up at private home to protest. This is done frequently against abortion doctors and providers.

The police are there in either case to help maintain the peace and prevent any violence.

150 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:44:41pm

re: #149 Gus 802

It’s probably within their rights to show up at private home to protest. This is done frequently against abortion doctors and providers.

The police are there in either case to help maintain the peace and prevent any violence.

You can protest on the street but I’d be very surprised if you can actually protest on the front porch, the grass, the side of the house, etc. Aka actually on their property.

151 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:45:22pm

re: #141 WindUpBird

The problem, Tampaknight, is you are clumsily and in a very dull way attempting to equate “protesters angry at banks playing games with their very lives” with “tea-party nativist birchers who call the president a n*** and advocate the overthrow of the government through violent means”

You just keep on keepin’ on with your false equivalency, it’s the name of the game, it’s the new sensation everyone’s talking about


SWINGANDAMISS

Tampa has denounced radical “tea baggers”, just as he is now denouncing this action

IF Tampa were condoning the actions of one while denouncing the other, you would have a case

You on the other hand ARE condoning the action of one!

152 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:45:22pm

re: #150 TampaKnight

You can protest on the street but I’d be very surprised if you can actually protest on the front porch, the grass, the side of the house, etc. Aka actually on their property.

I’m not going to argue the technicalities.

You’re not supposed to shoot bullets into an abortion doctors home either.

153 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:46:29pm

re: #152 Gus 802

I’m not going to argue the technicalities.

You’re not supposed to shoot bullets into an abortion doctors home either.

And I have never condoned that, nor would I.

154 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:46:53pm

re: #152 Gus 802

I’m not going to argue the technicalities.

You’re not supposed to shoot bullets into an abortion doctors home either.

Where has Tampa said that was okay?

He mentions the SEIU thing because it just occured

155 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:47:06pm

re: #151 sattv4u2

SWINGANDAMISS

Tampa has denounced radical “tea baggers”, just as he is now denouncing this action

IF Tampa were condoning the actions of one while denouncing the other, you would have a case

You on the other hand ARE condoning the action of one!

Holy shit, someone gets it.

156 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:47:13pm

re: #143 TampaKnight

You don’t get it, and apparently you’re too dense to get it. The tea baggers ARE USING THE EXACT SAME REASONS TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS- THE GOVERNMENT IS PLAYING GAMES WITH THEIR LIVES.

I guess you can’t step back to see it.

The difference is the Tea Partiers are lying. And being led by white supremacists and secessionists and confedarate loons. :)

Maybe you should actually, you know, read LGF? You know, the actual posts? With the actual pictures of actual Tea Partiers and their racist psychotic Bircher rhetoric scrawled on their misspelled signs with actual magic markets clutched in their cheeto-dust-stained fingers?

Keep on apologizing for racists, keep doing it. You don’t KNOW how much I want you to keep doing it and keep showing your true self

157 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:47:18pm

re: #153 TampaKnight

And I have never condoned that, nor would I.

I didn’t say you did. All I’m saying is that it’s legal and sometimes protesters will engage in illegal acts.

158 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:48:20pm

re: #156 WindUpBird

The difference is the Tea Partiers are lying. And being led by white supremacists and secessionists and confedarate loons. :)

Maybe you should actually, you know, read LGF? You know, the actual posts? With the actual pictures of actual Tea Partiers and their racist psychotic Bircher rhetoric scrawled on their misspelled signs with actual magic markets clutched in their cheeto-dust-stained fingers?

Keep on apologizing for racists, keep doing it. You don’t KNOW how much I want you to keep doing it and keep showing your true self

I think the horse is dead, Bird.

159 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:48:28pm

re: #156 WindUpBird

The difference is the Tea Partiers are lying. And being led by white supremacists and secessionists and confedarate loons. :)

Maybe you should actually, you know, read LGF? You know, the actual posts? With the actual pictures of actual Tea Partiers and their racist psychotic Bircher rhetoric scrawled on their misspelled signs with actual magic markets clutched in their cheeto-dust-stained fingers?

Keep on apologizing for racists, keep doing it. You don’t KNOW how much I want you to keep doing it and keep showing your true self

What’s hilarious is that in your head, you keep inventing the idea that I support tea party people.

Are you “ok”?

160 alexknyc  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:48:35pm

I was disappointed in the WSJ poll answer choices— there wasn’t a “Hell, no!” or “Are you insane?”

161 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:49:03pm

re: #160 alexknyc

I was disappointed in the WSJ poll answer choices— there wasn’t a “Hell, no!” or “Are you insane?”

“Ron Paul”

162 freetoken  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:49:30pm

re: #147 ryannon

During my time in Japan I was stunned by the high quality of goods and especially the very high quality of craftsmanship displayed by everyday crafts people.

You mentioned architecture: what is so great about American architecture?

We had two earthquakes here this morning. No buildings fell down. That is an accomplishment, due in no small part by having buildings fall down in the past! But the A-frame 2x4 wood house is hardly a new innovation.

Sorry, but if you are somehow unhappy with German quality it does not follow that America must be the land of great quality.

163 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:49:46pm

re: #147 ryannon

I’m not even going to try and take this any further. My condolences if all you see is the ugly or the mediocre in American cultural production. Being geographically separated from for the last four decades has sharpened my perceptions of what actually is and the perception of the same by certain ill-informed or prejudiced observers. Personally, I wouldn’t care if it was Albania or Swaziland rather than the U.S. I don’t receive any royalties or residuals in any case. But since what you term ‘culture’ has become something vital in my life, I’m quite attentive to both its quality and where it’s coming from. Once again, the U.S. wins, hands-down.

But if all you want to admit is the ugly, remember that it’s a choice rather than an inevitable condition.

If you didn’t want to take it any further, why did you write all the rest?

You make a blanket statement that the US wins in culture, hands-down, yet try to preclude any further discussion.

Very well.

I don’t agree, but you’re welcome to your opinion.

164 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:50:08pm

re: #155 TampaKnight

Holy shit, someone gets it.

scroll back,, I have since your original link to this story

I agree wholeheartedly. Go down to Main Street and protest in front of the bank
Inundate your newspaper with letters condemning the bank
Use your influence to persuade freinds, neighbors and family to NOT do business with the bank

BUT ,, stay the fuck off the mans lawn, be he a banker or abortion doctor

165 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:51:36pm

re: #159 TampaKnight

What’s hilarious is that in your head, you keep inventing the idea that I support tea party people.
Are you “ok”?

How could he else justify his ranting without that association?

166 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:51:55pm

re: #151 sattv4u2

SWINGANDAMISS

Tampa has denounced radical “tea baggers”, just as he is now denouncing this action

IF Tampa were condoning the actions of one while denouncing the other, you would have a case

You on the other hand ARE condoning the action of one!

You don’t seem to,,,understand,,,how,,,false,,,equivalency,,,works, but,,,that’s,,,ok

There is no equivalency between SEIU people protesting bank policies, and teabaggers advocating the murder of Barack Obama.

There is none at all, and trying to equate the two is essentially apologizing for teabaggers. ALL PROTESTERS THEY’RE ALL THE SAME I MEAN THEY SHOUT WHOA

167 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:51:56pm

re: #162 freetoken

During my time in Japan I was stunned by the high quality of goods and especially the very high quality of craftsmanship displayed by everyday crafts people.

You mentioned architecture: what is so great about American architecture?

We had two earthquakes here this morning. No buildings fell down. That is an accomplishment, due in no small part by having buildings fall down in the past! But the A-frame 2x4 wood house is hardly a new innovation.

Sorry, but if you are somehow unhappy with German quality it does not follow that America must be the land of great quality.

Allow me to repeat that I’m not even going to engage in this discussion. Life is too short.

As for Germany, I’m in France.

168 ShaunP  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:52:00pm

re: #164 sattv4u2

scroll back,, I have since your original link to this story

I agree wholeheartedly. Go down to Main Street and protest in front of the bank
Inundate your newspaper with letters condemning the bank
Use your influence to persuade freinds, neighbors and family to NOT do business with the bank

BUT ,, stay the fuck off the mans lawn, be he a banker or abortion doctor

I quite concur.

169 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:52:43pm

re: #168 ShaunP

I quite concur.

Nice try, DF.
/

170 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:53:24pm

re: #167 ryannon

Allow me to repeat that I’m not even going to engage in this discussion. Life is too short.

As for Germany, I’m in France.

So why did you write me a whole little lecture about how US culture trumps the rest of the world’s hands-down?

I’m supposed to take your word for it?

You’re a funny guy. Or gal. Whatever.

171 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:53:33pm

re: #159 TampaKnight

What’s hilarious is that in your head, you keep inventing the idea that I support tea party people.

Are you “ok”?

you’re equating legitimate protesters with a legitimate complaint with tea party people. You’re minimizing what teabaggers say, in effect apologizing for them, downplaying their significance so that you can smear unions.

172 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:54:23pm

re: #171 WindUpBird

you’re equating legitimate protesters with a legitimate complaint with tea party people. You’re minimizing what teabaggers say, in effect apologizing for them, downplaying their significance so that you can smear unions.

You don’t get it, and probably never will. The entire point has escaped your breadth of reality, despite the fact that many others here have gotten the point.

173 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:54:27pm

re: #166 WindUpBird

There is no equivalency between SEIU people protesting bank policies, and teabaggers advocating the murder of Barack Obama.

YOU’RE the one thats making that “equivalency”.

Tamp linked to a story. You assinged to him that he SUPPORTS any vile actions by Tea Party adherents, thus setting up the “false equivalency”

174 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:54:30pm

re: #164 sattv4u2

scroll back,, I have since your original link to this story

I agree wholeheartedly. Go down to Main Street and protest in front of the bank
Inundate your newspaper with letters condemning the bank
Use your influence to persuade freinds, neighbors and family to NOT do business with the bank

BUT ,, stay the fuck off the mans lawn, be he a banker or abortion doctor

You can protest, just don’t do it in an effective way! Write letters to the editor? Really?

yeahright :D

175 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:55:06pm

re: #173 sattv4u2

There is no equivalency between SEIU people protesting bank policies, and teabaggers advocating the murder of Barack Obama.

YOU’RE the one thats making that “equivalency”.

Tamp linked to a story. You assinged to him that he SUPPORTS any vile actions by Tea Party adherents, thus setting up the “false equivalency”

he is minimizing the vile actions of tea partiers.

176 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:55:23pm

re: #175 WindUpBird

he is minimizing the vile actions of tea partiers.

where ??

177 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:55:40pm

re: #176 sattv4u2

where ??

Yes, I’d like to know where as well.

178 Lidane  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:55:48pm

*sigh*

Dear Texas SBOE,

Stop making the rest of us in Texas look like a bunch of ignorant, inbred mouth-breathers. Also, fuck you for deliberately aiming to make kids dumb, thus forcing the universities to pick up the slack later.

No love,
Me

179 freetoken  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:55:58pm

re: #167 ryannon

As for Germany, I’m in France.


Sorry about that, I got you confused with a sometimes night-time poster who does so from Germany.

Fine, you don’t want to support your assertion about architecture.

So I’ll just summarize: American architecture is nothing to brag about.

OTOH, Housing codes in the US are pretty good, in that they lessen common problems found earlier or in many parts of the world (fires, earthquakes, floods, etc.)

180 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:55:59pm

re: #174 WindUpBird

You can protest, just don’t do it in an effective way! Write letters to the editor? Really?

yeahright :D

wait… I thought you were against the tea parties?

181 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:56:25pm

re: #174 WindUpBird

You can protest, just don’t do it in an effective way! Write letters to the editor? Really?

yeahright :D

Burning the mans house down would be “effective”
Tar and feathering while running him out of town on a rail would surely send a message!

182 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:56:37pm

re: #172 TampaKnight

You don’t get it, and probably never will. The entire point has escaped your breadth of reality, despite the fact that many others here have gotten the point.

hahaha the point is the righties don’t like unions, don’t worry, I get the tribalism, I understand you, I post a lot here, I know who basically believes what, and which people just believe down the party line.

I know you’re OH SO CONCERNED ABOUT THAT GUY’S LAWN OH NO WON’T SOMEONE SAVE HIS GRASS??? ;_;

183 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:56:49pm

re: #163 Cato the Elder

If you didn’t want to take it any further, why did you write all the rest?

You make a blanket statement that the US wins in culture, hands-down, yet try to preclude any further discussion.

Very well.

I don’t agree, but you’re welcome to your opinion.

I thoroughly agree. It would have taken up pages, and in the end, we’d be screaming insults at each other. Not worth it. American culture sucks. Nothing but idiots and no-necked philistines. Thank God for Japan (Mangas) and France (Johnny Hallyday).

184 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:56:57pm

re: #180 brookly red

wait… I thought you were against the tea parties?

LOL

As I read that, this thought instantly came to my mind.

Looks like WindUp is a tea party supporter in secrecy.

185 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:57:00pm

re: #140 TampaKnight

It’s utterly sad that people on THIS board seem fine with these thugs showing up at a HOUSE to intimidate, yet share “outrage” when tea baggers do very similar bullshit.

Apparently denouncing extremism only swings in one direction for many of you.

Where there any threats of physical abuse? Any racist comments? How about comments that should be Godwinned?

Before you declare an equivalency, perhaps we should be sure there is one.

Without that equivalency, intruding on someone’s private property when protesting his/her part in what turned in to a very destructive process is at most minor trespassing and somewhat rude.

186 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:57:24pm

re: #176 sattv4u2

where ??

just explained it in multiple posts, if you don’t want to read what I write, that’s fine!

187 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:57:49pm

re: #186 WindUpBird

just explained it in multiple posts, if you don’t want to read what I write, that’s fine!

No, a link to my exact post stating this would be appreciated.

188 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:58:02pm

re: #143 TampaKnight

You don’t get it, and apparently you’re too dense to get it. The tea baggers ARE USING THE EXACT SAME REASONS TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS- THE GOVERNMENT IS PLAYING GAMES WITH THEIR LIVES.

I guess you can’t step back to see it.

But the severity of the actions is different, and that is an important difference.

189 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:58:47pm

re: #186 WindUpBird

just explained it in multiple posts, if you don’t want to read what I write, that’s fine!

I read what YOU wrote
I want you to show me where TAMPA wrote
he is minimizing the vile actions of tea partiers.

as you stated in #175

190 rwdflynavy  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:58:54pm

re: #182 WindUpBird

hahaha the point is the righties don’t like unions, don’t worry, I get the tribalism, I understand you, I post a lot here, I know who basically believes what, and which people just believe down the party line.

I know you’re OH SO CONCERNED ABOUT THAT GUY’S LAWN OH NO WON’T SOMEONE SAVE HIS GRASS??? ;_;

600 union thugs on the guy’s property scaring his kid who is home alone. That is crap regardless of how you feel about the Tea Party.

191 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:59:02pm

re: #144 Cato the Elder

Also, no matter how righteous your indignation, the caps lock button does not improve your argument. Ever.

YES IT DOES!!!

Sorry for yelling, the wife has he TV turned up watching Dirty Jobs and I can barely hear myself think.

192 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:59:03pm

That damn dirty BofA executive deserved to have his family terrorized! He is in business to steal people’s property and bankrupt them!

Are you fucking shitting me?

It’s one thing to be a pro-socialist hack who craves the death of capitalism, but entirely another to smile with glee when a family is being terrorized because you don’t like the business practices of the company the father works for.

193 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:59:05pm

re: #188 b_sharp

But the severity of the actions is different, and that is an important difference.

I don’t care what the intent or words used are, when you STORM someone’s house while his kid is at home, it’s stupid extremism that only serves the idiots who are storming the house.

Protest at the bank, leave the fucking home alone.

And this goes for the idiot braindead tea baggers as well. In fact, it goes for EVERYONE.

194 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:59:24pm

re: #184 TampaKnight

LOL

As I read that, this thought instantly came to my mind.

Looks like WindUp is a tea party supporter in secrecy.

hahahaha yep, that’s me!

You go on being very concerned about peoples’ lawns. Maybe you can start a charity to help save the bankers lawns. Won’t you donate today? For just five cents a day, you can support a banker’s landscaping efforts!

195 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:59:24pm

re: #170 Cato the Elder

So why did you write me a whole little lecture about how US culture trumps the rest of the world’s hands-down?

I’m supposed to take your word for it?

You’re a funny guy. Or gal. Whatever.

Glad to have amused you.

196 palomino  Sat, May 22, 2010 1:59:34pm

re: #104 TampaKnight

Don’t know if this was mentioned yesterday but SEIU thugs went to the HOME of a BOA Executive, stormed his private property, and scared his kid to the point of locking himself in the bathroom.

Sad.

Is there a link for this?

197 freetoken  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:00:10pm

re: #183 ryannon

If you’re so fed up with France that you have to resort to stereotypes (note that I didn’t mention manga) then why not leave the country? Why take out your unhappiness on us by writing idiotic statements?

198 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:00:29pm

re: #187 TampaKnight

No, a link to my exact post stating this would be appreciated.

I’m not going to repeat myself, I’ve made myself perfectly clear. Crystal clear. Problem’s on your end!

199 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:00:57pm

re: #196 palomino

Is there a link for this?

in post # 112

200 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:01:37pm

re: #151 sattv4u2

SWINGANDAMISS

Tampa has denounced radical “tea baggers”, just as he is now denouncing this action

IF Tampa were condoning the actions of one while denouncing the other, you would have a case

You on the other hand ARE condoning the action of one!

Not at all, just arguing against a false equivalence.

201 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:01:40pm

re: #196 palomino

Is there a link for this?

The “stormed his private property” is SERIOUSLY seriously amped up spin. It’s spinning so fast it’s hitting the rev limiter. But SEIU did protest outside the home of bankers, yes.

202 rwdflynavy  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:01:45pm

What’s really behind SEIU’s Bank of America protests?


Instead, a friendly Huffington Post blogger showed up, narrowcasting coverage to the union’s leftist base. The rest of the message these protesters brought was personal-aimed at frightening Baer and his family, not influencing a broader public.

Of course, HuffPost readers responding to the coverage assumed that Baer was an evil former Bush official. He’s not. A lifelong Democrat, Baer worked for the Clinton Treasury Department, and his wife, Shirley Sagawa, author of the book The American Way to Change and a former adviser to Hillary Clinton, is a prominent national service advocate.

In the 1990s, the Baers’ former bosses, Bill and Hillary Clinton, denounced the “politics of personal destruction.” Today politicians and their voters of all stripes grieve the ugly bitterness that permeates our policy debates. Now, with populist rage providing a useful cover, it appears we’ve crossed into a new era: The politics of personal intimidation. To top of page

203 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:01:45pm

I will agree that going on someone’s property itself is probably beyond the pale. But standing outside on the sidewalk or street and raising hell has been upheld by numerous court decisions.

I think perhaps if one wants to protest at a private residence, notice should be given and permits obtained.

204 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:01:57pm

re: #198 WindUpBird

I’m not going to repeat myself, I’ve made myself perfectly clear. Crystal clear. Problem’s on your end!

No,, YOU made an accusation

(he is minimizing the vile actions of tea partiers.)


You were asked to show where he did that
Burden of proof lies at your feet.

Sorry if this is a hard life lesson for you

205 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:02:07pm

re: #197 freetoken

If you’re so fed up with France that you have to resort to stereotypes (note that I didn’t mention manga) then why not leave the country? Why take out your unhappiness on us by writing idiotic statements?

/Now imagine if you had said that about the USA, oh my!

206 palomino  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:02:14pm

re: #110 Cato the Elder

You’re the second person to bring that up today, and the second one not to provide a link.

Surely you must know by now that no one will just take your word for it?

Especially not if you dogwhistle the word “thugs”.

It’s not usually hard to find the source of “union thug” articles. Just go to Drudge and follow the links to Breitbart. Great journalism.////////////////////////////

207 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:02:46pm

re: #200 b_sharp

Not at all, just arguing against a false equivalence.

One that Tampa never made! THATS the point

WindUpBird has said he is minimizing the vile actions of tea partiers.. Tampa NEVER has

208 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:02:55pm

re: #158 brookly red

I think the horse is dead, Bird.

It’s just resting. Beautiful plumage.

209 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:03:06pm

re: #199 sattv4u2

in post # 112

“stormed his private property” is language that is, shall we say…in dispute!

Conjures up images of breaking and entering doesn’t it? Makes it sound like they’re all WE CAME HERE TO SCARE YOUR POOR LITTLE KID GRRR WE’RE EEEVIL UNION THUGGS

210 wrenchwench  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:03:08pm
211 rwdflynavy  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:03:20pm

re: #206 palomino

It’s not usually hard to find the source of “union thug” articles. Just go to Drudge and follow the links to Breitbart. Great journalism.///

Or CNN…. see my link above.

212 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:03:31pm

Just so I can sum up the views for many here:

Tea Baggers storm private residence in angry mob = BAD

Union Thugs storm private residence in angry mob = OK

Really? I mean really?

213 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:04:00pm

re: #208 b_sharp

It’s just resting. Beautiful plumage.

no, it’s getting all cold and stiff… I am pretty sure its dead.

214 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:04:15pm

I smell a change in America and it fucking stinks.

Attack capitalism = Yay!
Attack big government = Racists! Boo!

Not that I agree with one over the other. We are smart people and should be able to work shit out without violence. The violent Tea Party knuckledraggers are idiots. The morons who who go after capitalism are idiots as well.

Don’t like a certain business? Start your own and make it better than the competition!

215 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:04:25pm

I want this castle.
Image: HimejiCastle.jpg

216 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:04:33pm

re: #179 freetoken

Sorry about that, I got you confused with a sometimes night-time poster who does so from Germany.

Fine, you don’t want to support your assertion about architecture.

So I’ll just summarize: American architecture is nothing to brag about.

OTOH, Housing codes in the US are pretty good, in that they lessen common problems found earlier or in many parts of the world (fires, earthquakes, floods, etc.)

I’m being drawn into this besides my better judgement.

Architecture: Wright, Eames, Saarinen (to name only a few) and today, Frank Gehry. Can you trump even one of these in terms of an international career and/or influence?

217 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:04:44pm

re: #97 WindUpBird

It’s driving a Dodge Ram upholstered in American flags while smoking a hundred marlboros at once and looking out onto the Texas desert with a single tear in your eye, stroking your manliest of manly beards that is thicker than steel woll

Don’t exaggerate, you know it’s impossible to smoke more than one cigarette with your mouth full of dip.

218 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:04:47pm

re: #209 WindUpBird

“stormed his private property” is language that is, shall we say…in dispute!

Conjures up images of breaking and entering doesn’t it? Makes it sound like they’re all WE CAME HERE TO SCARE YOUR POOR LITTLE KID GRRR WE’RE EEEVIL UNION THUGGS

DODGE BALL. Only now are you bringing up the “language”

There is still an open challenge for you in post 196

219 freetoken  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:04:54pm

re: #205 brookly red

/Now imagine if you had said that about the USA, oh my!

Heh… but I have assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that he or his family chose to move there some time ago.

In an ideal world if he really liked France but deplored where the “culture” is headed he/she would be actively engaged in changing that culture.

220 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:05:10pm

Phoenix Bank Of America Protest

The Fire Coalition and United for A Sovereign America on March 10th 2007 staged a financial protest of Bank of America for allowing illegal aliens to apply for credit cards. Americans across the country closed their accounts and cut up their cards on that day.

Funny how it was “different” when it came down to Bank of America and “illegal aliens.”

No private property events in this video.

221 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:05:27pm

re: #204 sattv4u2

No,, YOU made an accusation

(he is minimizing the vile actions of tea partiers.)

You were asked to show where he did that
Burden of proof lies at your feet.

Sorry if this is a hard life lesson for you

he’s doing it by equating legitimate protestors with teapartiers. I’ve already proved that, I’ve already hit it out of the park. Deep left field, bye bye baseball, I’m rounding the bases

Hard life lesson indeed! It’s tough being around so many people who are so obviously partisan, so obviously party line about everything, so selectively outraged. It bums me out sometimes. But I press on!

222 Virginia Plain  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:05:53pm

re: #214 Racer X


Don’t like a certain business? Start your own and make it better than the competition!

Or better still, migrate to another business. If you don’t like BOA, move your money to another bank or a local credit union.

223 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:06:08pm

re: #221 WindUpBird

he’s doing it by equating legitimate protestors with teapartiers. I’ve already proved that, I’ve already hit it out of the park. Deep left field, bye bye baseball, I’m rounding the bases

Hard life lesson indeed! It’s tough being around so many people who are so obviously partisan, so obviously party line about everything, so selectively outraged. It bums me out sometimes. But I press on!

Show us the post where Tampa is minimizing the vile actions of tea partiers.

224 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:06:21pm

re: #221 WindUpBird

he’s doing it by equating legitimate protestors with teapartiers. I’ve already proved that, I’ve already hit it out of the park. Deep left field, bye bye baseball, I’m rounding the bases

Hard life lesson indeed! It’s tough being around so many people who are so obviously partisan, so obviously party line about everything, so selectively outraged. It bums me out sometimes. But I press on!

Where is this “legitimate protester” registration at?

225 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:06:54pm

re: #219 freetoken

Heh… but I have assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that he or his family chose to move there some time ago.

In an ideal world if he really liked France but deplored where the “culture” is headed he/she would be actively engaged in changing that culture.

OK, to be truthful I was really just snarking about other posts… I just piggybacked on your comment.

226 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:06:55pm

re: #214 Racer X

I find your premise of ‘attacking capitalism!’ a bit questionable.

What do you mean by that? Regulating predatory banks? Criticizing BP (‘cuz accidents happen, right?)

Help a brother out >

227 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:07:02pm

re: #224 TampaKnight

Where is this “legitimate protester” registration at?

comes with the nifty T-Shirt you get after your union dues check clears

228 ShaunP  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:07:07pm

re: #221 WindUpBird

he’s doing it by equating legitimate protestors with teapartiers. I’ve already proved that, I’ve already hit it out of the park. Deep left field, bye bye baseball, I’m rounding the bases

Hard life lesson indeed! It’s tough being around so many people who are so obviously partisan, so obviously party line about everything, so selectively outraged. It bums me out sometimes. But I press on!

That’s not what he did. He was just making the point (a valid one) that if people you disagreed with did the same thing; you would be against it.

229 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:07:30pm

re: #223 sattv4u2

Show us the post where Tampa is minimizing the vile actions of tea partiers.

haha we’re done here, you don’t want to read, sorry

230 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:07:33pm

re: #9 austin_blue

Hey Reine! I’m grieving over stories like this:

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

Oh, argh.
I am too.

From your link:

The fact that 11 human beings were killed in the Deepwater Horizon explosion (their bodies never found) has become, at best, an afterthought.

An afterthought.
Bodies never found.
They were right where the blowout happened. There are no bodies to recover. I just want to cry.

231 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:07:44pm

Round and round we go~

232 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:07:46pm

Apparently logic and reason is escaping at least one LGF user on this Saturday afternoon.

233 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:08:06pm

re: #221 WindUpBird

he’s doing it by equating legitimate protestors with teapartiers. I’ve already proved that, I’ve already hit it out of the park. Deep left field, bye bye baseball, I’m rounding the bases

Hard life lesson indeed! It’s tough being around so many people who are so obviously partisan, so obviously party line about everything, so selectively outraged. It bums me out sometimes. But I press on!

soooo exactly who gets to decide the matter of legitimacy… as if I had to ask.

234 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:08:07pm

re: #221 WindUpBird

I’ve already hit it out of the park

Oh ,,and by the way, this is the big leagues ,, not T-Ball

235 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:08:13pm

re: #220 Gus 802

Phoenix Bank Of America Protest


[Video]

Funny how it was “different” when it came down to Bank of America and “illegal aliens.”

No private property events in this video.

WHAT?!?

Those greedy capitalist bastards are extending credit to illegals and the poor? Those assholes!

236 Tigger2005  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:08:17pm

re: #92 Cato the Elder

It’s a doctrine. Called “American exceptionalism”. There are various versions, but the one I’m objecting to is the theological explanation, which says that God has given us a special place among nations. It’s so wide-open to abuse that you could - and people have done it already - drive trucks full of genocide, jingoism, race-hatred, slavery, Manifest Destiny, imperialism and death through it.

The shining city on the hill whose effluents everyone else has to eat.

Well, I guess I can agree with this. I don’t believe America is exceptional by divine fiat. Hitler claimed pretty much the same thing about Germany. To the degree America is exceptional, it’s exceptional because it broke away from (many of) the chains of the past and enshrined certain Enlightenment ideals into law, and a significant fraction of its citizens have actually tried to live up to those ideals.

237 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:08:17pm

re: #224 TampaKnight

Where is this “legitimate protester” registration at?

perhaps you should have been paying attention to real estate and financial news all these many months

238 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:08:32pm

re: #197 freetoken

If you’re so fed up with France that you have to resort to stereotypes (note that I didn’t mention manga) then why not leave the country? Why take out your unhappiness on us by writing idiotic statements?

I’d be tempted to suggest that you try shitting up a ladder, but all this is becoming old hat. And like I said, life’s too short to spend it arguing with the intellectually circumscribed.

239 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:08:39pm

re: #232 TampaKnight

Imo man up and say who you’re talking about. >>

240 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:08:40pm

re: #231 Varek Raith

Round and round we go~

241 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:08:50pm

re: #237 WindUpBird

perhaps you should have been paying attention to real estate and financial news all these many months

Oh, ok. So there are more “legitimate” forms of hate and anger?

242 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:08:55pm

re: #222 Virginia Plain

Or better still, migrate to another business. If you don’t like BOA, move your money to another bank or a local credit union.

Works for me.

But then, I support capitalism.

243 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:09:05pm

re: #239 windsagio

Imo man up and say who you’re talking about. >>

Tag! You’re in!

244 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:09:39pm

Anyone else want popcorn?

245 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:09:39pm

re: #226 windsagio

I find your premise of ‘attacking capitalism!’ a bit questionable.

What do you mean by that? Regulating predatory banks? Criticizing BP (‘cuz accidents happen, right?)

Help a brother out >

A BofA executive’s home being terrorized.

246 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:10:01pm

WindUp- be honest, you were on the guys’ front porch with the SEIU folks, weren’t you?

At this point, it’s the only thing that wold make sense of your argument.

247 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:10:09pm

re: #243 WindUpBird

Don’t look at me, I don’t wanna have to read the whole loathsome convo to get caught up >>

Looks like its more of the same ol’, same ol’. Tho’.

248 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:10:11pm

re: #232 TampaKnight

Apparently logic and reason is escaping at least one LGF user on this Saturday afternoon.

I’m thinking more than one.

249 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:10:17pm

re: #241 TampaKnight

Oh, ok. So there are more “legitimate” forms of hate and anger?

Being angry because a bank is fucking with your mortgage = legitimate

being angry at the president because he is a secret muslim = illegitimate

any other questions?

250 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:10:25pm

re: #229 WindUpBird

haha we’re done here, you don’t want to read, sorry

TRANSLATION

“Tampa never said it, so I CAN’T provide the post where he did!”

See WUB,, it would have been “done here” IF you could have showed where Tampa said it

In that he didn’t,, not so much!

251 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:10:36pm

re: #245 Racer X

A BofA executive’s home being terrorized.

hahaha protest = terror

Now you’re doing it too!

252 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:11:02pm

re: #235 Racer X

WHAT?!?

Those greedy capitalist bastards are extending credit to illegals and the poor? Those assholes!

Well, it was a big deal for the right wing at the time. Lou Dobbs, Tom Tancredo, Michelle Malkin, and other joined in on the anti-Bank-of-America bandwagon.

Por ejemplo:

Bank of Illegal Aliens in America
By Michelle Malkin • February 13, 2007 09:21 AM

So it was PC for the right wing to get their hate on for Bank of America at the time.

253 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:11:22pm

re: #247 windsagio

Don’t look at me, I don’t wanna have to read the whole loathsome convo to get caught up >>

Looks like its more of the same ol’, same ol’. Tho’.

It is, it’s just the good old fashioned tribal lines. Gotta hate the unions! I mean, they vote democrat!

254 alexknyc  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:11:24pm

re: #221 WindUpBird

he’s doing it by equating legitimate protestors with teapartiers. I’ve already proved that, I’ve already hit it out of the park. Deep left field, bye bye baseball, I’m rounding the bases

Hard life lesson indeed! It’s tough being around so many people who are so obviously partisan, so obviously party line about everything, so selectively outraged. It bums me out sometimes. But I press on!

The only one selectively outraged here is you.

Let me say this for you in small words— trespassing on private property to intimidate is bullshit no matter what the cause is.

Simple enough. Why can’t you seem to get it?

255 engineer cat  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:11:27pm

are people even aware of the depth of ignorance in this country, and the boastful self confidence which which morons declare things that are clearly not true?

just yesterday, discussing rand paul, a blazing ignoramus on a right wing blog posted this comment:

I would suggest that people look into who sponsored and passed the 1964 civil rights act: it was the Republicans who did that over the objections of the Democrats. LBJ reluctantly signed the bill into law because he knew this would get him into trouble with his political base.

there is a impenetrable and obdurate quality of this kind of ignorance that defies physics

256 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:11:28pm

re: #219 freetoken

Heh… but I have assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that he or his family chose to move there some time ago.

In an ideal world if he really liked France but deplored where the “culture” is headed he/she would be actively engaged in changing that culture.

Not in an ideal world. In your severely circumscribed and apparently manipulative imagination.

Now please drop this before it gets ugly.

257 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:11:32pm

re: #221 WindUpBird
In what world are people who protest that their taxes are too high any less legitimate than those who protest that they’re not getting enough goodies from taxpayers?
I don’t have a beef with any group of people exercising their right to a peaceful protest ( although five hundred people converging on one private home’s lawn is a bit much). I do have a problem with the taxpayers subsidizing a police escort.

258 rwdflynavy  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:11:44pm

re: #251 WindUpBird

hahaha protest = terror

Now you’re doing it too!

What’s really behind SEIU’s Bank of America protests?

Reading is fundamental.

259 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:12:05pm

re: #171 WindUpBird

you’re equating legitimate protesters with a legitimate complaint with tea party people. You’re minimizing what teabaggers say, in effect apologizing for them, downplaying their significance so that you can smear unions.

Actually, I think s/he is trying to elevate the level of the ‘SEIU thugs’ to that of the Tea Party.

Not, the Tea Party dudes are as harmless as the SEIU thugs, but, the SEIU thugs are equally as evil as the racists in the Tea Party.

Intent matters.

260 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:12:16pm

re: #244 Varek Raith

Anyone else want popcorn?

The show’s over, I’m afraid, they’re just repeating themselves

261 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:12:20pm

re: #251 WindUpBird

hahaha protest = terror

Now you’re doing it too!

I think someone mentioned the home being broken into.

Like that kinda ‘protest’?

262 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:12:31pm

re: #232 TampaKnight
It happens.
In both camps.

263 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:12:32pm

re: #260 WindUpBird

The show’s over, I’m afraid, they’re just repeating themselves

Bugger.

264 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:12:37pm

re: #230 reine.de.tout

An afterthought.
Bodies never found.
They were right where the blowout happened. There are no bodies to recover. I just want to cry.

{reine.de.tout}

265 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:12:54pm

re: #257 tradewind

In what world are people who protest that their taxes are too high any less legitimate than those who protest that they’re not getting enough goodies from taxpayers?
I don’t have a beef with any group of people exercising their right to a peaceful protest ( although five hundred people converging on one private home’s lawn is a bit much). I do have a problem with the taxpayers subsidizing a police escort.

lol@ apologist for tea partiers

266 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:12:54pm

re: #260 WindUpBird

The show’s over, I’m afraid, they’re just repeating themselves

TRANSLATION

I’m getting my arse kicked ,,please m,ake the bad man stop!!

267 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:12:59pm

re: #252 Gus 802

Well, it was a big deal for the right wing at the time. Lou Dobbs, Tom Tancredo, Michelle Malkin, and other joined in on the anti-Bank-of-America bandwagon.

Por ejemplo:

Bank of Illegal Aliens in America
By Michelle Malkin • February 13, 2007 09:21 AM

So it was PC for the right wing to get their hate on for Bank of America at the time.

My point exactly!

Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

268 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:13:06pm

re: #261 Racer X

I think someone mentioned the home being broken into.

Like that kinda ‘protest’?

links plz

269 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:13:31pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

lol@ apologist for tea partiers

You’re like a walking talking mouth piece for illiteracy.

270 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:13:50pm

re: #258 rwdflynavy
And from the mouth/keyboard of that noted right-winger, Nina Easton, no less.//

271 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:13:57pm

re: #245 Racer X

Oh that;

I’m sure others have been over this, but that’s less ‘attacking capitalism’ as an abstraction, more ‘protesting (or attacking if you must) one bank that people really don’t like’.

Your dive into abstraction is kinda messed up.

272 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:13:57pm

re: #268 WindUpBird

links plz

I’m still waiting for my link where I support the tea party people or even defend them.

273 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:14:12pm

re: #267 Racer X

My point exactly!

Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

Yeah. Well, Bank of America isn’t the worst I’ve ever encountered. Bank wise I can’t stand HSBC.

Bank of America actually loans out quite a sum to SEIU.

274 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:14:19pm

re: #265 WindUpBird
lol@apologist for subsidized mobs invading private homes.

275 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:14:45pm

re: #271 windsagio

So how’ve you been? :D

276 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:14:59pm

re: #274 tradewind

lol@apologist for subsidized mobs invading private homes.

links plz

277 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:15:05pm

re: #268 WindUpBird

re: #272 TampaKnight

I’m still waiting for my link where I support the tea party people or even defend them.

WUB ,,, in case you forgot,,, post # 196

278 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:15:11pm

….Jesus…..

279 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:15:24pm

re: #221 WindUpBird

he’s doing it by equating legitimate protestors with teapartiers. I’ve already proved that, I’ve already hit it out of the park. Deep left field, bye bye baseball, I’m rounding the bases

Hard life lesson indeed! It’s tough being around so many people who are so obviously partisan, so obviously party line about everything, so selectively outraged. It bums me out sometimes. But I press on!

Sorry WUB.
This mob at this man’s house doesn’t look like any sort of legitimate protest to me.

In #112, that’s a CNN link, not Fox, not WSJ, not any of the usual suspects.
It’s CNN.

Looks to me like YOU’RE the one showing your party line tribalism here.

Lots of us conservatives here are as outraged about the teapartiers and their tactics.

Looks to me like when hit in the face with outrageous behavior by those on “your” side of the street, you could show some outrage yourself.

280 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:15:31pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

lol@ apologist for tea partiers

sorry dude people protesting being overtaxed don’t need apologists

281 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:15:33pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

That’s what kinda upsets me about this. Even people who seemed reasonable letting their shields down and letting their “OMG BIG GOVERNMENT! TEA!!!!!” Flags fly.

282 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:15:40pm

re: #276 WindUpBird

links plz

My front porch is my PRIVATE HOME

For that matter, so is my front LAWN

283 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:15:50pm

re: #278 TheMatrix31

…Jesus…

He’s dead, Jim.

284 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:16:18pm

re: #283 Varek Raith

He’s dead, Jim.

And Mary Chain?

285 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:16:19pm

re: #268 WindUpBird

links plz

You OK with this particular ‘protest’?

A simple yes or no will suffice.
re: #258 rwdflynavy

What’s really behind SEIU’s Bank of America protests?

Reading is fundamental.

286 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:16:24pm

re: #275 WindUpBird

Playin’ alot of DF >>

Was gonna go play SF and MvC with Andy last night, but he ditched me >>

If you guys wanna go out and get some lunch let me know ;)

287 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:16:34pm

re: #283 Varek Raith

He’s dead, Jim.

wait ,, I saw a twitch!

288 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:16:47pm

re: #272 TampaKnight
Me too… when you find it, we can share.
I live in a total red state ( although admittedly, in an outlier blue county), and I couldn’t even name a personal acquaintance who belongs to the tea party.
/But I know they’re out there, plotting/……

289 TampaKnight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:16:56pm

I believe this debate is over and won.

Better luck next time, WindUp.

290 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:17:11pm

re: #281 windsagio

That’s what kinda upsets me about this. Even people who seemed reasonable letting their shields down and letting their “OMG BIG GOVERNMENT! TEA!!!” Flags fly.

Big Government Tea!

Brilliant!

291 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:17:13pm

re: #279 reine.de.tout

SNAP

292 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:17:36pm

re: #281 windsagio

That’s what kinda upsets me about this. Even people who seemed reasonable letting their shields down and letting their “OMG BIG GOVERNMENT! TEA!!!” Flags fly.

What….people are only allowed to be outraged by the behavior you have decided is outrageous? Or else they are “teabaggers”?

That’s just silly.

293 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:17:41pm

re: #285 Racer X

yeah about that post too, first of all some emotional force behond it… altho’ that CAN make good reporting.

Secondly, I don’t see any mention of the cops. You’d think if they were being all thuggy and home-invasiony, there would have been some arrests.

294 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:17:46pm

re: #290 Varek Raith

Big Government Tea!

Brilliant!

MULTIPLE strings attached to every bag!

295 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:18:06pm

re: #290 Varek Raith

Big Government Tea!

Brilliant!

f that, I am still waiting for my free cheese!

296 freetoken  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:18:09pm

re: #216 ryannon

I’m being drawn into this besides my better judgement.

Architecture: Wright, Eames, Saarinen (to name only a few) and today, Frank Gehry. Can you trump even one of these in terms of an international career and/or influence?

Wright? That is a century ago. And as for influence and well known careers - that American Al Capone had one but I don’t want people to follow in his path.

Architecture is not just about being paid big bucks (and acquiring fame) to design some gaudy edifice to modern building technologies (all too common.)

It is in everyday life.

Every time I walk buy a strip mall here, these days with notable vacancies, and notice how poorly they hold up even after only 30 years… or when I walk by house after house and all I am presented with is the garage door (or the back end of an auto in the driveway)… or when I look closely at houses built here in the ‘70’s and later and see how they so quickly fall apart, as compared to the WWII era and earlier houses (of which there are plenty around the area)… or when I walk in the cold corridors of US cities or the very cold and disinviting outdoor “malls” with their un-walkable myriad of unnecessary staircases of two steps (thrown in to relieve the boredom of 1000 feet of barren concrete)… or when I want to walk to a store and find they don’t have a sidewalk from the street to the door because they’ve surrounded the store building with a hundred acres of asphalt for parking cars…

I’m talking about the real American architecture, not the shiny glass and steel monstrosities that get put on the cover of glossy magazines, about which few people outside of Davos will take as seriously representing real life.

297 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:18:56pm

re: #276 WindUpBird
That’s been done already, merely peruse.

298 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:18:58pm

re: #293 windsagio

there would have been some arrests.

I see,, so if there are no arrests there was no crime?

You sure you want to stick with that reasoning?

299 avanti  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:19:20pm

More from Jefferson on the subect:


Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom


and

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”

Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814.

300 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:19:33pm

re: #292 reine.de.tout

That’s not what I said at all.

What I *do* see is that people can’t be outraged by this on its own, but have to make every effort to use the occasion to defend the ‘baggers.

Case in point:

Attack capitalism = Yay!
Attack big government = Racists! Boo!

I can’t stop them from being upset at whatever, but when they use their upset as a channel to defend terrible people, theres an issue.

301 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:19:39pm

re: #293 windsagio

yeah about that post too, first of all some emotional force behond it… altho’ that CAN make good reporting.

Secondly, I don’t see any mention of the cops. You’d think if they were being all thuggy and home-invasiony, there would have been some arrests.

Yeah I have no idea if the home was broken into or not. I do recall a BofA executive’s home being firebombed a year or so ago. Not sure who or why.

But same question to you - are you OK with the ‘protest’ that occurred at the guy’s home?

302 Ojoe  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:20:00pm

Molding little minds with great disrespect for the child’s innate ability to actually see things for himself.™

(or herself)

Gaaa!

303 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:20:26pm

re: #294 sattv4u2

MULTIPLE strings attached to every bag!

and 40% is gone before you see it…

304 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:20:28pm

re: #298 sattv4u2

its more; I suspect they’re gilding their scare some. If it was as bad as all that why weren’t the cops called?

305 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:20:42pm

re: #279 reine.de.tout

Sorry WUB.
This mob at this man’s house doesn’t look like any sort of legitimate protest to me.

In #112, that’s a CNN link, not Fox, not WSJ, not any of the usual suspects.
It’s CNN.

Looks to me like YOU’RE the one showing your party line tribalism here.

Lots of us conservatives here are as outraged about the teapartiers and their tactics.

Looks to me like when hit in the face with outrageous behavior by those on “your” side of the street, you could show some outrage yourself.

it’s a legitimate protest that ended up on a guy’s lawn. Yes it was loud, yes it was pissed off. Don’t dispute that at all. You want me to say they should hve stayed off his lawn? Sure! They shoulda stayed off his lawn.

But! Equating it with people who are waving signs advocating the murder of the president, it’s not the same. Trying to make them equivalent is ridiculous.

The way I see it, if I’m to parse this down, we have people who are very concerned that people ended up on the guy’s lawn. And they seem to believe that a protest with angry people who are pissed off at the games being played with mortages, with some lawn action going on, is JUST AS SIGNIFICANT as teapartiers being led by racists, waving racists signs, advocating violence, advocating bircherism.

Sorry, I’m not there with you.

306 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:20:43pm

re: #207 sattv4u2

One that Tampa never made! THATS the point

WindUpBird has said he is minimizing the vile actions of tea partiers.. Tampa NEVER has

Here is where Tampa made the false equivalence:

Funny- if you replace “BOA” with “Government employee” and the union people with “tea partiers”, I’m sure you’d be sharing my disgust for these actions.

307 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:20:58pm

re: #293 windsagio

Secondly, I don’t see any mention of the cops.


Yeah, that shoe dropped later. Kind of embarrassing, and no serious reporter good democrat really wanted to talk about it.

308 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:21:00pm

re: #296 freetoken

Wright? That is a century ago. And as for influence and well known careers - that American Al Capone had one but I don’t want people to follow in his path.

Architecture is not just about being paid big bucks (and acquiring fame) to design some gaudy edifice to modern building technologies (all too common.)

It is in everyday life.

Every time I walk buy a strip mall here, these days with notable vacancies, and notice how poorly they hold up even after only 30 years… or when I walk by house after house and all I am presented with is the garage door (or the back end of an auto in the driveway)… or when I look closely at houses built here in the ‘70’s and later and see how they so quickly fall apart, as compared to the WWII era and earlier houses (of which there are plenty around the area)… or when I walk in the cold corridors of US cities or the very cold and disinviting outdoor “malls” with their un-walkable myriad of unnecessary staircases of two steps (thrown in to relieve the boredom of 1000 feet of barren concrete)… or when I want to walk to a store and find they don’t have a sidewalk from the street to the door because they’ve surrounded the store building with a hundred acres of asphalt for parking cars…

I’m talking about the real American architecture, not the shiny glass and steel monstrosities that get put on the cover of glossy magazines, about which few people outside of Davos will take as seriously representing real life.

LOL! You sound like a one-man cultural Tea Party, my friend. Too funny, and what a fucking hell you live in.

309 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:21:24pm

Protest outside the property line at one’s home. Ok.
Crossing over said property line. No, no, and a no.

310 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:21:34pm

re: #300 windsagio

That’s not what I said at all.

What I *do* see is that people can’t be outraged by this on its own, but have to make every effort to use the occasion to defend the ‘baggers.

Case in point:

I can’t stop them from being upset at whatever, but when they use their upset as a channel to defend terrible people, theres an issue.

I’m not defending either group.

But just as you look to see if we are sufficiently outraged by the tea-guys, it would be nice, really nice, if some sort of outrage would be shown by YOU at what honestly was an outrageous incident. There’s a photo with the link at #112.

311 Lidane  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:21:49pm

All this talk about Bank of America and all I can think of is this song:

312 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:22:33pm

re: #301 Racer X

“OK” is a bit tough, to be perfectly frank.

I wouldn’t have attended thats for sure…

That being said, as I’ve mentioned above, that story (CNN or no) doesn’t really meet a smell test. I’d have to know how ‘in his face’ they really were before I could reply properly.

To do my best tho’, I’d say “They were in their rights, but it was probably pointless, if not counterproductive”.

313 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:22:33pm

re: #282 sattv4u2

My front porch is my PRIVATE HOME

For that matter, so is my front LAWN

playing games with language, I understand, playing little games

So if some guy chases down his model airplane he was flying or his soccer ball into your front lawn to retrieve it, that’s totally the same as the guy entering your front door and walking through your house, and you’d treat both exactly the same?


BULL

and

SHIT

314 palomino  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:22:37pm

re: #151 sattv4u2

SWINGANDAMISS

Tampa has denounced radical “tea baggers”, just as he is now denouncing this action

IF Tampa were condoning the actions of one while denouncing the other, you would have a case

You on the other hand ARE condoning the action of one!

I think the difference is that the SEIU protests are infrequent and small. How many others can you even think of?

Teapartiers, on the other hand, are everywhere and have shaped the direction of the current GOP. Thus attempting to draw equivalency between the two groups seems disingenuous.

315 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:22:43pm

re: #306 b_sharp

thanks :D

316 Ojoe  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:22:50pm

re: #296 freetoken

I’m talking about the real American architecture,

Try the Greene brothers.

And a lot of the good stuff is anonymous.

And the “Star system” in architecture makes for some pretty perverse buildings if you ask me.

— Ojoe, Architect.

317 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:23:14pm

re: #305 WindUpBird

it’s a legitimate protest that ended up on a guy’s lawn. Yes it was loud, yes it was pissed off. Don’t dispute that at all. You want me to say they should hve stayed off his lawn? Sure! They shoulda stayed off his lawn.

But! Equating it with people who are waving signs advocating the murder of the president, it’s not the same. Trying to make them equivalent is ridiculous.

The way I see it, if I’m to parse this down, we have people who are very concerned that people ended up on the guy’s lawn. And they seem to believe that a protest with angry people who are pissed off at the games being played with mortages, with some lawn action going on, is JUST AS SIGNIFICANT as teapartiers being led by racists, waving racists signs, advocating violence, advocating bircherism.

Sorry, I’m not there with you.

Never said trespassing on private property and scaring the guy’s kids was equivalent to advocating the murder of the President.

Doesn’t make the behavior ANY LESS OUTRAGEOUS.
And your attempts to minimize it are - surprising, honestly.

318 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:23:25pm

re: #312 windsagio

“OK” is a bit tough, to be perfectly frank.

I wouldn’t have attended thats for sure…

That being said, as I’ve mentioned above, that story (CNN or no) doesn’t really meet a smell test. I’d have to know how ‘in his face’ they really were before I could reply properly.

To do my best tho’, I’d say “They were in their rights, but it was probably pointless, if not counterproductive”.

what you have is anti-union prejudice. Look at the language. “union thugs” “subsidized mobs”

319 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:23:31pm

re: #309 Varek Raith

Protest outside the property line at one’s home. Ok.
Crossing over said property line. No, no, and a no.

Really?

That level of protest at a guys house is OK. What did he do to deserve that type of protest? Honest question.

320 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:23:49pm

re: #317 reine.de.tout

Never said trespassing on private property and scaring the guy’s kids was equivalent to advocating the murder of the President.

Doesn’t make the behavior ANY LESS OUTRAGEOUS.
And your attempts to minimize it are - surprising, honestly.

I’m afraid we just wildly disagree on what is outrageous, Reine.

321 rwdflynavy  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:24:04pm

re: #318 WindUpBird

what you have is anti-union prejudice. Look at the language. “union thugs” “subsidized mobs”

I think at this point Union Shill is the right term for you.

322 Ojoe  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:24:14pm

re: #308 ryannon

Freetoken has spoken well.

323 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:24:38pm

re: #322 Ojoe

Freetoken has spoken well.

I shall inform the media.

324 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:24:51pm

re: #309 Varek Raith

Protest outside the property line at one’s home. Ok.
Crossing over said property line. No, no, and a no.

I agree, they shouldn’t have been on the guy’s lawn!

But it’s not equivalent to the tea-party rhetoric at all. It’s selective outrage.

325 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:25:04pm

re: #314 palomino

I think the difference is that the SEIU protests are infrequent and small. How many others can you even think of?

Teapartiers, on the other hand, are everywhere and have shaped the direction of the current GOP. Thus attempting to draw equivalency between the two groups seems disingenuous.


[Link: news.google.com…]

GOOGLE is your friend

326 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:25:14pm

re: #318 WindUpBird

what you have is anti-union prejudice. Look at the language. “union thugs” “subsidized mobs”

You forgot to mention ACORN!

327 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:25:25pm

re: #321 rwdflynavy

I think at this point Union Shill is the right term for you.

hahaha union shill! I’m self employed, dude. I draw pictures of monsters for a living :D

328 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:25:29pm

re: #296 freetoken

We need to get back to core issues - such as our inalienable right to blow people off our lawns and porches with no remorse, warnings or apologies.

329 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:25:35pm

re: #317 reine.de.tout

Never said trespassing on private property and scaring the guy’s kids was equivalent to advocating the murder of the President.

people have been shot for less…

330 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:25:40pm

re: #319 Racer X

Really?

That level of protest at a guys house is OK. What did he do to deserve that type of protest? Honest question.

Beats me. If they’re on public property and got proper permits, then yes, it’s ok. If they don’t have permits, then it shouldn’t be ok with a crowd that big.

331 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:25:44pm

re: #310 reine.de.tout

I really think its not as outrageous as people advocating armed revolt or the killing of the president in public rallies. Really really, and sorry.

332 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:26:13pm

re: #312 windsagio

“OK” is a bit tough, to be perfectly frank.

I wouldn’t have attended thats for sure…

That being said, as I’ve mentioned above, that story (CNN or no) doesn’t really meet a smell test. I’d have to know how ‘in his face’ they really were before I could reply properly.

To do my best tho’, I’d say “They were in their rights, but it was probably pointless, if not counterproductive”.

There’s a photo with the link at #112.

re: #320 WindUpBird

I’m afraid we just wildly disagree on what is outrageous, Reine.

I would be scared shitless if I looked outside my house and saw that sort of crowd. I would not feel that myself or my daughter were safe. I’ve called the cops out to my house for MUCH less than that.

That was outrageous.

333 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:26:14pm

re: #308 ryannon

LOL! You sound like a one-man cultural Tea Party, my friend. Too funny, and what a fucking hell you live in.

you wish you could express yourself with half as much eloquence as freetoken.

334 rwdflynavy  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:26:20pm

re: #327 WindUpBird

hahaha union shill! I’m self employed, dude. I draw pictures of monsters for a living :D

So you just shill on the side?
//

I thought you worked in the medical field and did the drawing on the side. If you were able to go full time with your passion, then congrats!!

335 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:26:40pm

It’s always “selective outrage”, I guess. Guess we have to defer to others who seemingly know better when to be outraged and when not to be.

336 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:26:44pm

re: #320 WindUpBird

I’m afraid we just wildly disagree on what is outrageous, Reine.

Clearly.

Lets flip it.

You OK with Tea Partiers protesting in this same fashion at say, Nancy Pelosi’s house? That’s OK?

337 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:26:53pm

re: #314 palomino

How many others can you even think of?


The google references for ’ SEIU Protest ’ stretch on for miles. First four I saw after the most recent, were Burger King, Monterey County, Sedexo, Citi, but the list is endless. It’s evidently a requirement for membership./

338 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:27:00pm

re: #316 Ojoe

Try the Greene brothers.

And a lot of the good stuff is anonymous.

And the “Star system” in architecture makes for some pretty perverse buildings if you ask me.

— Ojoe, Architect.

Perverts (and the merely perverse) need houses too, Joe.

339 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:27:02pm

re: #317 reine.de.tout

Never said trespassing on private property and scaring the guy’s kids was equivalent to advocating the murder of the President.

And to be clear, YOU didn’t, but that’s what I’m hearing from Tampa.

340 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:27:14pm

re: #331 windsagio

I really think its not as outrageous as people advocating armed revolt or the killing of the president in public rallies. Really really, and sorry.

and nopbody but YOU has mentioned that nor minimized it

YOU did however say that TAMPA condoned such actions

YOU STILL have’nt shown the post where he did

341 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:27:23pm

re: #212 TampaKnight

Just so I can sum up the views for many here:

Tea Baggers storm private residence in angry mob = BAD

Union Thugs storm private residence in angry mob = OK

Really? I mean really?

You are missing our point.

Tea Baggers storm private residence in angry mob, pounding on the door, yelling racist epithets, threatening physical violence, calling the people inside Nazis, Fascists, Commies, all while wielding poorly spelled signs = BAD (We’ve got badly spelled signs and we’re not afraid to use them!)

Inconsiderate asshat union members storm private residence in angry mob = not as BAD.

342 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:27:27pm

re: #332 reine.de.tout

Believe it or not, I saw the picture… multiple times. Can you separate the picture from the inflammatory language of the article?

343 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:27:59pm

re: #336 Racer X

Are they advocating sedition, holding up actively racist signs, or threatening to kill somebody?

344 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:27:59pm

re: #334 rwdflynavy

So you just shill on the side?
//

I thought you worked in the medical field and did the drawing on the side. If you were able to go full time with your passion, then congrats!!

I actually quit my medical field job, so yes. :) It was sorta backwards, the health care job was making me much less than the art gigs for years, but it wasn’t worth quitting, if that makes any sense? Then it got to the point where it was interfering, so I quit.

345 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:28:17pm

re: #331 windsagio

I really think its not as outrageous as people advocating armed revolt or the killing of the president in public rallies. Really really, and sorry.

Interesting.

I don’t understand how one corresponds to the other.

Both can be bad.

346 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:28:31pm

re: #340 sattv4u2

Dude, I’m not WUB. I started in at about 220.

Rageblinders, lol >>

347 palomino  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:28:39pm

re: #214 Racer X

I smell a change in America and it fucking stinks.

Attack capitalism = Yay!
Attack big government = Racists! Boo!

Not that I agree with one over the other. We are smart people and should be able to work shit out without violence. The violent Tea Party knuckledraggers are idiots. The morons who who go after capitalism are idiots as well.

Don’t like a certain business? Start your own and make it better than the competition!

Good point. I don’t like what BP has done, so I think I’ll start my very own multinational energy corporation.

348 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:28:41pm

re: #330 Varek Raith

Beats me. If they’re on public property and got proper permits, then yes, it’s ok. If they don’t have permits, then it shouldn’t be ok with a crowd that big.

Addendum. I’m completely ignorant in the laws regarding protests like this.
Whether permits are needed or not, all that jazz.

349 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:28:43pm

re: #341 b_sharp

You are missing our point.

Tea Baggers storm private residence in angry mob, pounding on the door, yelling racist epithets, threatening physical violence, calling the people inside Nazis, Fascists, Commies, all while wielding poorly spelled signs = BAD (We’ve got badly spelled signs and we’re not afraid to use them!)

Inconsiderate asshat union members storm private residence in angry mob = not as BAD.

well except that the second actually happened

350 rwdflynavy  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:28:50pm

re: #344 WindUpBird

I actually quit my medical field job, so yes. :) It was sorta backwards, the health care job was making me much less than the art gigs for years, but it wasn’t worth quitting, if that makes any sense? Then it got to the point where it was interfering, so I quit.

Congrats! I know you mentioned you just worked the medical thing for health coverage. That is awesome!!

351 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:29:08pm

re: #322 Ojoe

Freetoken has spoken well.

Right. So pass the fucking peace-pipe and some raw buffalo liver and let’s move on, chief.

352 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:29:22pm

re: #345 Racer X

One is substantially worse.

Substantially.

There’s that equivalency word again >>

353 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:30:09pm

re: #222 Virginia Plain

Or better still, migrate to another business. If you don’t like BOA, move your money to another bank or a local credit union.

That doesn’t help the people being evicted. Nor does it stop virtual money from tanking the economy.

354 rwdflynavy  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:30:09pm

re: #347 palomino

Good point. I don’t like what BP has done, so I think I’ll start my very own multinational energy corporation.

I think Prestige Worldwide is a good name!
//

355 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:30:15pm

I’m really pissed at my fellow lefties now for making me side with the righties.

356 rwdflynavy  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:30:21pm

bbiab.

357 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:30:35pm

re: #333 WindUpBird

you wish you could express yourself with half as much eloquence as freetoken.

How the hell do you have the slightest idea of what I wish?

Bad, dumb moon rising on LGF tonight.

358 Red Pencil  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:30:36pm

re: #304 windsagio

its more; I suspect they’re gilding their scare some. If it was as bad as all that why weren’t the cops called?


From the link in #112 the cops WERE called.

Baer, on his way home from a Little League game, parked his car around the corner, called the police, and made a quick calculation to leave his younger son behind while he tried to rescue his increasingly distressed teen. He made his way through a din of barked demands and insults from the activists who proudly “outed” him, and slipped through his front door.

and

But when hundreds of loud and angry strangers are descending on your family, your children, and your home, a more apt description of this assemblage would be “mob.” Intimidation was the whole point of this exercise, and it worked-even on the police. A trio of officers who belatedly answered our calls confessed a fear that arrests might “incite” these trespassers.

359 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:30:43pm

re: #342 windsagio

Believe it or not, I saw the picture… multiple times. Can you separate the picture from the inflammatory language of the article?

Why would I?

The photo illustrates the language of the article.
The guy is reporting what he saw.

The photo illustrates what he saw.

Are you saying the person who wrote the article is a liar?

360 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:30:53pm

re: #339 WindUpBird

equivalent to advocating the murder of the President.

And to be clear, YOU didn’t, but that’s what I’m hearing from Tampa.


I’m seething now ,, WHERE did you “hear” from Tampa that it was equivalent to advocating the murder of the President.
WHERE??

Put up, or shut up. You’ve been asked repeatedly sisnce #196

361 alexknyc  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:31:10pm

I don’t get why certain people have to bring up worse behavior to try to excuse/ignore bad behavior by “their” side.

By any reasonable standard, trespassing with the intention of intimidating the homeowner is bullshit regardless of cause.

Why is this a problem for some people?

362 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:31:13pm

re: #355 JasonA

I’m really pissed at my fellow lefties now for making me side with the righties.

Be glad. Us being able to disagree with each other is actually a good thing.

Keeps us less tribal, imo. Like WUB said the other day, one of the things you don’t have to worry about on the left is blind loyalty and a monolithic position.

363 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:31:29pm

re: #355 JasonA

I’m really pissed at my fellow lefties now for making me side with the righties.

welcome to my world… here have a beer.

364 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:31:53pm

Too much emotion.
Silly humans.
:)

365 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:31:59pm

re: #345 Racer X

Interesting.

I don’t understand how one corresponds to the other.

Both can be bad.


Tampa was making the equivalency. Bsharp linked to it. Tampa’s argument was that SEIU guys protesting on the dude’s lawn was equivalent to teabaggers.

Thus minimizing the teabaggers, when their message is incredibly hateful, and the SEIU people are angry for a legitimate reason.

366 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:32:08pm

re: #363 brookly red

But you’re not a lefty :p

You just play one when its convenient ;)

367 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:32:09pm

re: #343 windsagio

Are they advocating sedition, holding up actively racist signs, or threatening to kill somebody?

Irrelevant.

My position is: a large angry mob protesting at a personal residence is wrong.

See how easy that was? No politics involved, no mention of Tea Party or Unions.

368 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:32:09pm

Tribal, tribal, tribal, tribal, tribal.

369 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:32:10pm

re: #357 ryannon

How the hell do you have the slightest idea of what I wish?

Bad, dumb moon rising on LGF tonight.

hahaha

370 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:32:43pm

re: #364 Varek Raith

Emotion is healthy!

Another reason the Jedis are burning in hell >>

(That and the pedophilia)

371 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:33:03pm

re: #355 JasonA

I’m really pissed at my fellow lefties now for making me side with the righties.

sorry man

372 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:33:14pm

So glad to know that there are others around to decide legitimate reasons for being upset enough to protest. Makes life easier, I suppose.

373 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:33:14pm

re: #355 JasonA

I’m really pissed at my fellow lefties now for making me side with the righties.

{jasonA}

And after all our squabbles, too!
LOL
It’s sort of how I felt when I started disagreeing with former folks here before they flounced.

374 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:33:26pm

re: #347 palomino

Good point. I don’t like what BP has done, so I think I’ll start my very own multinational energy corporation.

Or, you could purchase form someone else. Citigo sure took a hit after Hugo spewed his crap. How many Exxon gas stations are left out there?

375 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:33:32pm

re: #370 windsagio

Emotion is healthy!

Another reason the Jedis are burning in hell >>

(That and the pedophilia)

That, sir, was funny.
:)

376 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:33:33pm

re: #362 windsagio

Honestly, I can never be okay with people protesting in front of someone’s house. I wouldn’t want it to happen to me. Hell, I wouldn’t even want it happen to someone in my neighborhood.

377 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:33:42pm

re: #369 WindUpBird

hahaha

I hope you manage to keep that sense of humor, Bird. It’s all that separates most of us from them.

378 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:34:07pm

re: #371 WindUpBird

YOU MUST CONFORM!

No seriously.

Whats funny is this whole outrage because the story is based on ‘omg they terrorised his kid!’ “FAMILY!!!!”

If they were on his property, they were over the line. But the sheer emotional force totally comes from the framing of the story.

379 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:34:24pm

CAP LOCKS SUCK111111

Kid was a teenager.
SEIU Thugs=working class people

Besides that I don’t like this protesting outside someone’s home.
Not only for the sake of the family BUT also because of the neighbors who have a right to not be annoyed in their homes.

(and I think it is a right not to be annoyed in your home and should probably be in the Constitution, then maybe I could stop my neighbor from blowing leaves at 8 am and have him see someone for his obviously debilitating leaf obsession.)

380 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:34:25pm

re: #373 reine.de.tout

{jasonA}

And after all our squabbles, too!
LOL
It’s sort of how I felt when I started disagreeing with former folks here before they flounced.

they’re not “folks” anymore since they flounced? What are they now,, cows?? plankton ???

381 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:34:27pm

re: #336 Racer X

Clearly.

Lets flip it.

You OK with Tea Partiers protesting in this same fashion at say, Nancy Pelosi’s house? That’s OK?

Well, you addressed this to WUB.

But I surely would not be OK with that.

A person’s home and family is (or should be) off-limits, IMO.

382 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:34:49pm

re: #361 alexknyc

I don’t get why certain people have to bring up worse behavior to try to excuse/ignore bad behavior by “their” side.

By any reasonable standard, trespassing with the intention of intimidating the homeowner is bullshit regardless of cause.

Why is this a problem for some people?

I have said over and over again they should have stayed off the guy’s lawn

But some people here are way more concerned with the guy’s lawn than the actual thing they were protesting

383 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:34:53pm

re: #380 sattv4u2

they’re not “folks” anymore since they flounced? What are they now,, cows?? plankton ???

Why, they are now floundering flouncers, silly!

384 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:34:59pm

re: #366 windsagio

But you’re not a lefty :p

You just play one when its convenient ;)

was a lefty still a registered D… but it is discussions like this one that push me to the right.

385 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:35:43pm

re: #352 windsagio

One is substantially worse.

Substantially.

There’s that equivalency word again >>

OK then.

My problem was it seemed there for a minute that some here felt the protests were totally OK.

Not sure how or why it turned into a ‘yeah but the tea party guys are worse’ discussion. Irrelevant.

386 Varek Raith  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:35:52pm

BBL.
Time for the eating of the food.

387 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:36:09pm

re: #362 windsagio

Be glad. Us being able to disagree with each other is actually a good thing.

Keeps us less tribal, imo. Like WUB said the other day, one of the things you don’t have to worry about on the left is blind loyalty and a monolithic position.

At the International Stud, both being blind and not worrying about a certain position always helps open you up tot he tribe.

388 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:36:22pm

re: #378 windsagio

YOU MUST CONFORM!

No seriously.

Whats funny is this whole outrage because the story is based on ‘omg they terrorised his kid!’ “FAMILY!!!”

If they were on his property, they were over the line. But the sheer emotional force totally comes from the framing of the story.

yep! and by framing the story in that way, everyone is all OUTRAGED! LAWN! KID!

as opposed to the much more complicated issues they were, you know, actually protesting.

389 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:36:28pm

re: #355 JasonA

I’m really pissed at my fellow lefties now for making me side with the righties.

Heh.

390 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:36:29pm

re: #375 Varek Raith

We all have a few in us >>

I do have a point tho’, as long as you’re not being a rage-addict, a bit of anger and outrage can be healthy. You just can’t let it cloud your judgment.

Its really annoying when people who are clearly upset Insist something along hte lines of ‘I’m not mad, I’m just amused!’

391 Ojoe  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:36:36pm

re: #323 Bagua

This is the media.

392 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:37:23pm

re: #385 Racer X


Not sure how or why it turned into a ‘yeah but the tea party guys are worse’ discussion. Irrelevant.

Liar, you know exactly how and why it turned into that.

/

393 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:37:40pm

re: #361 alexknyc

I don’t get why certain people have to bring up worse behavior to try to excuse/ignore bad behavior by “their” side.

By any reasonable standard, trespassing with the intention of intimidating the homeowner is bullshit regardless of cause.

Why is this a problem for some people?

Damn straight.

394 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:37:57pm

re: #385 Racer X

I think everyone has said now that they should have stayed off the guys property.

The problem is the comparisons being made really.

395 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:37:58pm

re: #331 windsagio

I really think its not as outrageous as people advocating armed revolt or the killing of the president in public rallies. Really really, and sorry.

I have not said it was as outrageous.

It is however, awful and outrageous behavior, intended to intimidate and frighten the guy by getting at his family!
Just absolutely wrong.
Not equivalent to advocating murder or armed revolt.
But just as wrong, and unethical.

396 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:38:16pm

Don’t worry too much about the school kids in TX…. even with the whack textbook changes, things will even out when they graduate and enroll in UT , People’s Republic of Austin. They’ll set ‘em straight in no time. Or not, if that’s their preference.
:)

397 Ojoe  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:38:21pm

re: #351 ryannon

How about some firewater? And some buffalo jerky?

Mmmmm!

398 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:38:22pm

re: #387 Walter L. Newton

Love you walter!

No homo!

399 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:38:26pm

BBL also

Have to go get myself presentable for a formal dinner/ auction/ charity event

Damn ,, and the Celtics are playing the Magic in game 3 tonight

“{cough,, cough,,, honey ,, I think i’m coming down with soemthing. Maybe I shouldn’t go tonight at the risk of spreading it. Maybe the best thing for me is to just stay here on the recliner ,,,, in front of the flat screen,,, and , oh,, could you bring me a beer before you leave!!??”

400 alexknyc  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:38:45pm

re: #382 WindUpBird

I have said over and over again they should have stayed off the guy’s lawn

But some people here are way more concerned with the guy’s lawn than the actual thing they were protesting

On the other hand, it could have been viewed as you being OK with tea bagger tactics when it’s a cause you agree with.

Arguing that the tea baggers are worse is irrelevant.

401 palomino  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:38:50pm

re: #325 sattv4u2

[Link: news.google.com…]

GOOGLE is your friend

So there have been a lot of other protests like this one? Your search just highlights a lot of anger over this particular protest.

Again, trying to create some equivalency between teabaggers and SEIU is pretty weak, but I guess you gotta do whatever makes you feel good.

402 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:39:13pm

re: #394 windsagio

I think everyone has said now that they should have stayed off the guys property.

The problem is the comparisons being made really.

Bingo!

403 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:39:16pm

Ok… so I get Sunday evening off at 7:00pm, the finale of LOST starts at 8pm. Considering I am low man at work among about 20 checkers, this was a gift from my manager. Normally I work 4-5 hours in the evening on Sunday, but this Sunday, they managed to schedule me from 11:45 to 7:00pm… near next to impossible for someone as “green” as I am to get any requested time off.

For the 1 or 2 LOST fans out there… just a reminder about the schedule of LOST events on TV this weekend. Tonight, Sat. evening they are playing the Pilot 1 and Pilot 2 episodes, the fisrt two hours of the show from 6 years ago.

Then on Sunday evening, there will be a 2 hour recap of the complete series… if you want to catch up on 6 years of episodes, that’s the time to do it… and then… the 2 1/2 hour series finale… after your local news there will be an hour of Jimmy Krimmel Live show with members of the LOST cast.

So… a total of 7 1/2 hours of LOST coverage this weekend. The TV event of a lifetime.

(This has been a Public Service announcement from your Department of LOST Fanatics)

404 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:40:06pm

re: #398 windsagio

Love you walter!

No homo!

I was just making a informative statement in case anyone ever need that information… glad to oblige.

405 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:40:09pm

re: #400 alexknyc

On the other hand, it could have been viewed as you being OK with tea bagger tactics when it’s a cause you agree with.

Arguing that the tea baggers are worse is irrelevant.

Yep.

406 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:40:15pm

re: #395 reine.de.tout

There’s a pattern in this thread of people not recognizing that distinction. Take that away, and there’s not much to argue about.

We could take up the issue of how media presentation of an incident can instill a large amount of undue emotional force if you want, I guess :)

407 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:40:27pm

re: #378 windsagio

YOU MUST CONFORM!

No seriously.

Whats funny is this whole outrage because the story is based on ‘omg they terrorised his kid!’ “FAMILY!!!”

If they were on his property, they were over the line. But the sheer emotional force totally comes from the framing of the story.

You find it funny that a child was terrorized by and angry mob? This was not a protest, it was an act of personal intimidation. You are the one framing the story from your own twisted perspective.

408 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:41:05pm

re: #406 windsagio

There’s a pattern in this thread of people not recognizing that distinction. Take that away, and there’s not much to argue about.

We could take up the issue of how media presentation of an incident can instill a large amount of undue emotional force if you want, I guess :)

naw, I’m finished.

I am, however, a bit surprised by those who seem to be OK with that incident.

409 Why I Never!  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:41:06pm

re: #388 WindUpBird

yep! and by framing the story in that way, everyone is all OUTRAGED! LAWN! KID!

as opposed to the much more complicated issues they were, you know, actually protesting.

Lazy media doing their thing. The whole ZOMG KID! LAWN! BLARGH! angle just comes naturally. You can write it in your sleep, and some of those covering it no doubt did.

410 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:41:08pm

re: #403 Walter L. Newton

Ok… so I get Sunday evening off at 7:00pm, the finale of LOST starts at 8pm. Considering I am low man at work among about 20 checkers, this was a gift from my manager. Normally I work 4-5 hours in the evening on Sunday, but this Sunday, they managed to schedule me from 11:45 to 7:00pm… near next to impossible for someone as “green” as I am to get any requested time off.

For the 1 or 2 LOST fans out there… just a reminder about the schedule of LOST events on TV this weekend. Tonight, Sat. evening they are playing the Pilot 1 and Pilot 2 episodes, the fisrt two hours of the show from 6 years ago.

Then on Sunday evening, there will be a 2 hour recap of the complete series… if you want to catch up on 6 years of episodes, that’s the time to do it… and then… the 2 1/2 hour series finale… after your local news there will be an hour of Jimmy Krimmel Live show with members of the LOST cast.

So… a total of 7 1/2 hours of LOST coverage this weekend. The TV event of a lifetime.

(This has been a Public Service announcement from your Department of LOST Fanatics)

When the heck is this wind supposed to stop?

411 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:41:24pm

re: #397 Ojoe

How about some firewater? And some buffalo jerky?

Mmmm!

I’d settle for a TowerCam shot. Places like that must have been sacred (or at least special) to the peoples who lived there before we arrived with our shitty architecture, culture and fire-water.

412 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:41:48pm

re: #400 alexknyc

That’s crap, because people are using this incident to defend the ‘baggers.

If they’d never been brought up you’d be right. But once the subject was breached, and this was used to defend them, the point has to be made.

413 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:41:53pm

re: #403 Walter L. Newton
Mental health professionals are bracing themselves for the fallout.
Although I saw an interview with D&C, and they admitted that they probably would be revisiting their baby after a short while, even though they have promised not to go there. So maybe all is not……uh, you know.

414 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:42:09pm

re: #310 reine.de.tout

I’m not defending either group.

But just as you look to see if we are sufficiently outraged by the tea-guys, it would be nice, really nice, if some sort of outrage would be shown by YOU at what honestly was an outrageous incident. There’s a photo with the link at #112.

Outrage is called for, but should the outrage at the union be equivalent to the outrage at the Tea Party given the essential difference in protest tactics?

If you can show me the same racism, the same promise of violence in the union protest as is heard during the Tea Partier’s protests and meetings, then I’ll apologize to Tampa and swallow my words.

415 alexknyc  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:42:35pm

re: #412 windsagio

That’s crap, because people are using this incident to defend the ‘baggers.

If they’d never been brought up you’d be right. But once the subject was breached, and this was used to defend them, the point has to be made.

Who’s been defending teabaggers on this thread?

416 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:42:38pm

re: #409 iceweasel

Lazy media doing their thing. The whole ZOMG KID! LAWN! BLARGH! angle just comes naturally. You can write it in your sleep, and some of those covering it no doubt did.

Hey Ice. Saw that you liked a couple of my previous posts with links. Here’s one I call Irony.

417 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:42:43pm

re: #407 Bagua

Never said that man. I do think that the person writing that article knew exactly what buttons to press to get a proper sense of outrage worked up.

418 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:42:44pm

re: #336 Racer X

Clearly.

Lets flip it.

You OK with Tea Partiers protesting in this same fashion at say, Nancy Pelosi’s house? That’s OK?

I would not be going OMG They’re oon her lawn!

I was always concerned about the message. If they’re honest to gud THREATENING Pelosi, that’s different.

I have not seen any evidence that there was a THREAT on this bank dude’s person. There was implied intimidation by nature of the fact that a lot of angry people were protesting at him.

That is intimdating! But people here are characterizing it as a threat, they’re characterizing people on the guy’s lawn as being equivalent to breaking and entering, this whole thing is rolling down hyperbole boulevard.

If TPers want to yell and stomp on Pelosi’s Azaleas, whatever. I’m way more concerned about THEIR MESSAGE. Unless! We get to the point where we’re talking about honest-to-God threats. I haven’t seen that.


And the reason I’m all fired up about this is because of (I believe) the anti-union sentiment here, people here are looking for any reason to attack the union. As opposed to checking out why they’re so mad, why they went there in the first place.

If I protest somewhere, and I break a law somewhere in the protest, does that completely invalidate the protest? How many protestors litter? How many protestors have stopped traffic? How many protestors have committed petty vandalism by posting up flyers un;lawfully?

Trying to get out of the internet zinger mode and into actually discussing this. You know, so I don’t get called the poster child for illiteracy :D

419 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:42:55pm

re: #412 windsagio

because people are using this incident to defend the ‘baggers.

Problem is ,,, NOBODY did that

420 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:42:56pm

re: #378 windsagio

YOU MUST CONFORM!

No seriously.

Whats funny is this whole outrage because the story is based on ‘omg they terrorised his kid!’ “FAMILY!!!”

If they were on his property, they were over the line. But the sheer emotional force totally comes from the framing of the story.

OMG.
I cannot tell you how ridiculous this is, what you’ve said.

If there is one thing I would gladly give my life for, it’s the safety and welfare of my family. Really. I have no clue whether or not you are a parent. People can mess with me all they want. But do NOT cause grief or harm to my kid. Ever.

421 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:43:27pm

re: #415 alexknyc

gmta (419)

422 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:43:38pm

re: #395 reine.de.tout

I have not said it was as outrageous.

It is however, awful and outrageous behavior, intended to intimidate and frighten the guy by getting at his family!
Just absolutely wrong.
Not equivalent to advocating murder or armed revolt.
But just as wrong, and unethical.

do you really think that the protestors ****conscious tactic**** was “let’s scare his family?”

Really? Or is that an unintended consequence of protesting at all?

423 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:43:39pm

re: #408 reine.de.tout

naw, I’m finished.

I am, however, a bit surprised by those who seem to be OK with that incident.

If the demon TEA PARTY did this same intimidation act at the home of one of their targets, the same people minimising this would be howling in rage.

424 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:43:58pm

re: #315 WindUpBird

thanks :D

Welcome. I was just trying to answer an honest question with an honest answer.

425 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:43:59pm

re: #415 alexknyc

A few really, go back and read.

Heres one example, since its still in my clipboard.

Attack capitalism = Yay!
Attack big government = Racists! Boo!

Also, there’s a link up above to Tampa making a specific equivalency.

426 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:44:00pm

re: #419 sattv4u2

because people are using this incident to defend the ‘baggers.

Problem is ,,, NOBODY did that

What I saw instead was people diminishing this incident because it’s not as awful as what the baggers do.

427 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:44:02pm

Speaking only for myself if I was called to serve on a jury to judge a man that used deadly force to protect his home and or family from a mob, that man would walk same day.

428 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:44:20pm

re: #408 reine.de.tout
The thing is….. who paid for the police escort? Protest was in MD, not even DC cops’ jurisdiction . If something had broken out, they would have had no author-i-tie.

429 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:44:43pm

re: #422 WindUpBird

do you really think that the protestors ***conscious tactic*** was “let’s scare his family?”

Really? Or is that an unintended consequence of protesting at all?

If you show up at a person’s home, yes, you know you will be affecting his family. Just a fact that home is exactly where a person’s family WILL BE.

430 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:44:51pm

If someone’s family is scared because of a protest, by the numbers of people, by their volume and their anger, does that invalidate the protest?

431 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:44:52pm

re: #415 alexknyc
Oh, it’s, you know…. implied.
They can just tell.

432 Why I Never!  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:45:04pm

re: #416 Gus 802

Hey Ice. Saw that you liked a couple of my previous posts with links. Here’s one I call Irony.

Holy cow!

(yes, I was reading over some of your stuff that I missed, I have work to do updinging you! :) )

433 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:45:26pm

re: #420 reine.de.tout

I totally understand that, but people use that (not only healthy but positive and neccesary) emotion in many ways to manipulate people.

Like in this story.

434 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:45:38pm

re: #423 Bagua

If the demon TEA PARTY did this same intimidation act at the home of one of their targets, the same people minimising this would be howling in rage.

And I would be howling in rage, as well.

That’s what I find so very surprising - the lack of consistency.

435 alexknyc  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:46:35pm

re: #425 windsagio

A few really, go back and read.

Heres one example, since its still in my clipboard.

Also, there’s a link up above to Tampa making a specific equivalency.

Context is everything. Your clipboard quote was showing the hypocrisy of what the OP thought was your position.

Your equivalency argument is crap too since your reaction to the story was already there before the comparison was made.

Not to mention that asking whether you’d still be OK with what happened if were the tea baggers doing it.

A question I still haven’t seen answered, by the way, but maybe I missed it.

436 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:46:38pm

re: #430 WindUpBird
It just highlights the douchery.

437 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:46:45pm

re: #378 windsagio

Whats funny is this whole outrage because the story is based on ‘omg they terrorised his kid!’ “FAMILY!!!”

I pray that you mean “FUNNY”NOT in the Ha Ha Ha way

BECAUSE,,, no matter what MY actions were, if I were to come home and find my 15 year old in my house surrounded by people encroaching on my property I would be in a lot more trouble than being a bank exec who authorized some questionable dealings

438 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:46:56pm

re: #430 WindUpBird

If someone’s family is scared because of a protest, by the numbers of people, by their volume and their anger, does that invalidate the protest?

does the end justify the means?

439 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:47:02pm

re: #433 windsagio

I totally understand that, but people use that (not only healthy but positive and neccesary) emotion in many ways to manipulate people.

Like in this story.

Well, the STORY reports what happened.
Which is the protesters used the emotional impact of showing up at the guy’s house …
It’s not the reporting of what happened that carries the emotional impact - it’s what actually did happen that is emotional.

440 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:47:12pm

re: #431 tradewind

We’ve been over this many many times, I figured you’d know right now.

There’s an underhanded tactic for defending something (its a logical fallacy to boot!) by saying ‘the other side is just as bad!’ Its handy because you don’t actually have to say anything to defend people the community at large consider awful, but you can still get your point out there.

441 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:47:29pm

re: #423 Bagua

If the demon TEA PARTY did this same intimidation act at the home of one of their targets, the same people minimising this would be howling in rage.

Like I said, I’m not concerned about peoples’ lawns. I’m concerned about message. If the TPers want to go stand on Pelosi, or Blanche Lincoln, or Harry Reid’s lawn and be all angry, it’s not going to bust me up inside.

But I will be checking out their signs, and what they’re saying. And if they’re calling for assassinations, THEN. THEN I get very interested!

442 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:47:52pm

re: #434 reine.de.tout

Honestly? Not that surprised.

443 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:47:55pm

re: #413 tradewind

Mental health professionals are bracing themselves for the fallout.
Although I saw an interview with D&C, and they admitted that they probably would be revisiting their baby after a short while, even though they have promised not to go there. So maybe all is not…uh, you know.

From what I have heard them say, this is not to revisit the show with any new plot material or spin offs or a movie (although Disney owns the franchise, and you can’t stop Disney from doing something if they want).

What they have been talking about is books, documentaries and other supportive material all about the creation and production of the show itself.

That’s all I heard that was possible, just supportive media of all sorts.

But not more plot.

444 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:48:09pm

re: #422 WindUpBird

do you really think that the protestors ***conscious tactic*** was “let’s scare his family?”

Really? Or is that an unintended consequence of protesting at all?

By going to the mans house, who do you think they were trying to scare, the fire ants on his lawn !?!?!

445 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:48:16pm

re: #327 WindUpBird

hahaha union shill! I’m self employed, dude. I draw pictures of monsters for a living :D

I’m self employed too, with upwards of 3 whole employees. I’ve belonged to unions but I certainly don’t agree with much of what they do. As far as I can tell they’re nothing more than a deterrent to keep non-union shops honest.

446 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:48:18pm

re: #440 windsagio

We’ve been over this many many times, I figured you’d know right now.

There’s an underhanded tactic for defending something (its a logical fallacy to boot!) by saying ‘the other side is just as bad!’ Its handy because you don’t actually have to say anything to defend people the community at large consider awful, but you can still get your point out there.

Which is exactly what I saw you and WUB doing - responding to this story with but but but the baggers are worse!

Just sayin …

447 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:48:18pm

re: #437 sattv4u2

NO believe me, I didn’t mean ‘haha’ funny. I figured it’d be clear from the context >>

448 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:49:09pm

re: #410 Gus 802

When the heck is this wind supposed to stop?

It’s been strong up here all day, which means it must be really strong along the front range… we lost power for about 45 minutes this morning because the wind knocked something down.

449 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:49:10pm

re: #417 windsagio

Never said that man. I do think that the person writing that article knew exactly what buttons to press to get a proper sense of outrage worked up.

Of, course, the MSM is above all lazy, they go for emotional hooks and simplification of what they report to conform to their narrative and keep up with what the rest of their herd are saying.

But what you are doing is similar, selective ridicule to fit your narrative, if the “protesters” were those you oppose you would overlook the media’s failings.

Thus I find your position disingenuous. WUB on the other hand, I have seen oppose media bias and laziness on both sides so I tend to respect his observations more.

450 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:49:23pm

re: #439 reine.de.tout

That story is full of loaded terms and expressions. Its an emotional piece, not a reporting piece.

451 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:50:07pm

re: #447 windsagio

NO believe me, I didn’t mean ‘haha’ funny. I figured it’d be clear from the context >>

It wasn’t, from the way you and WUB are defending it, and i’m not the only one that didn’t know it wasn’t meant as “funny” “ha ha “

452 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:50:18pm

re: #449 Bagua

Do you have any examples? Because I seriously don’t know what you’re talking about.

453 Why I Never!  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:50:24pm

re: #416 Gus 802

Hey Ice. Saw that you liked a couple of my previous posts with links. Here’s one I call Irony.

Hey Gus— is this guy a troll? Suspect a sleeper.
It’s been a few hours since YoungLibertarian was last banned after all. /

(Just kidding about YL, though I was pleased to see Nick Morgan got the boot—had him pegged for a stalker.)

454 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:50:44pm

re: #448 Walter L. Newton

It’s been strong up here all day, which means it must be really strong along the front range… we lost power for about 45 minutes this morning because the wind knocked something down.

It started early this morning and yes, it is pretty strong with a lot of gusts. Kind of warm too. I have a portable AC which vents out the patio door so the wind kind of messes things up with the exhaust blowing back in.

455 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:50:48pm

re: #440 windsagio
’ Hi honey, how was your day ‘?
’ Pretty sweet! Me and the guys ran down to the ‘burbs and terrorized a fifteen year old kid in his house alone because his old man’s a capitalist! And get this: we had a police escort! ’
‘Okay, but did you remember to mail the mortgage payment ‘?

456 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:51:08pm

re: #219 freetoken

In passing, but sincerely, my apologies for the name-calling. My bad, and no excuses, other than a lack of proportion and self-control.

And thank you for having the intelligence to let it pass.

457 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:51:22pm

re: #455 tradewind

That’s so irrelevant to what I posted, I hardly have words for it.

458 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:51:28pm

re: #445 b_sharp

I’m self employed too, with upwards of 3 whole employees. I’ve belonged to unions but I certainly don’t agree with much of what they do. As far as I can tell they’re nothing more than a deterrent to keep non-union shops honest.

The supermarket I am currently working part time at, part of the whole Kroger mega-company, is a non-union shop, something to do with distance from the local union chapter (?)… but most all of the other stores in the chain locally are union, so, most of the rules that are followed in our store are union rules, because it’s easier for the company to do thing the same way in all stores… of course, the salary levels are different… almost the only thing different.

459 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:51:28pm

re: #429 reine.de.tout

If you show up at a person’s home, yes, you know you will be affecting his family. Just a fact that home is exactly where a person’s family WILL BE.

So let me ask you this: do you believe there should never be a protest outside someone’s home? Leaving aside tresspassing issues. Assuming they stay on public property and not his lawn.

Should that be unlawful, or do you believe it’s just simply that should Never Be Done?

Because personally, I don’t believe that it should be off limits to protest outside someone’s residence. Maybe you do, and that’s a perfectly valid disagreement we have.

Now, once it goes from a protest to stalking, or blocking the person from their residence, or making it impossible for them to leave, then it’s serious. But that’s why we have anti-stalking laws!

460 sattv4u2  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:51:37pm

re: #435 alexknyc

A question I still haven’t seen answered, by the way, but maybe I missed it.

hell ,,, I’m still waiting for an answer to #196!

461 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:52:26pm

re: #457 windsagio
Then my mission here is finished./

462 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:52:46pm

re: #422 WindUpBird

do you really think that the protestors ***conscious tactic*** was “let’s scare his family?”

Really? Or is that an unintended consequence of protesting at all?

Blatantly, for that exact reason they targeted his home, and not his business. They are also trying to personalise and isolate their target, they claim to be protesting a corporation, yet they single out individuals to torment at their homes knowing they will involve their family and neighbors. It is Mafia style tactics. Disgusting.

463 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:52:54pm

re: #434 reine.de.tout

And I would be howling in rage, as well.

That’s what I find so very surprising - the lack of consistency.

I don’t really know where I have given my opinions on this board before to day, with regard to how I feel about the tactics of protesting.

I’ve talked about MESSAGES of protestors, but not about when and where I believe protesting should be appropriate.

If there’s a place I’ve been inconsistent, let me know!

464 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:53:15pm

re: #453 iceweasel

Hey Gus— is this guy a troll? Suspect a sleeper.
It’s been a few hours since YoungLibertarian was last banned after all. /

(Just kidding about YL, though I was pleased to see Nick Morgan got the boot—had him pegged for a stalker.)

Did you see the moron from early this morning? A MrBrisco? Sheesh.

I couldn’t figure out “Nick Morgan.” Guess my Trolldar™ is broken or something.

465 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:53:17pm

re: #455 tradewind

’ Hi honey, how was your day ‘?
’ Pretty sweet! Me and the guys ran down to the ‘burbs and terrorized a fifteen year old kid in his house alone because his old man’s a capitalist! And get this: we had a police escort! ’
‘Okay, but did you remember to mail the mortgage payment ‘?

?

466 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:53:30pm

re: #461 tradewind

Actually there is something I can respond to.

Because his old man’s a capitalist!

Is that really what you think this is about? because let me tell you.

Communism is a Red Herring.

467 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:53:36pm

re: #425 windsagio

A few really, go back and read.

Heres one example, since its still in my clipboard.

Also, there’s a link up above to Tampa making a specific equivalency.

You know that is totally disingenuous on your part, and I really do not appreciate it at all. Why not quote the entire thing?

re: #214 Racer X

I smell a change in America and it fucking stinks.

Attack capitalism = Yay!
Attack big government = Racists! Boo!

Not that I agree with one over the other. We are smart people and should be able to work shit out without violence. The violent Tea Party knuckledraggers are idiots. The morons who who go after capitalism are idiots as well.

Don’t like a certain business? Start your own and make it better than the competition!

You just dropped a few notches.

468 palomino  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:53:43pm

re: #434 reine.de.tout

And I would be howling in rage, as well.

That’s what I find so very surprising - the lack of consistency.

You’re right. There’s a lack of consistency.

Maybe part of the reluctance to join in the criticism of the SEIU protest is the fact that virtually all mention of them starts off as “SEIU thugs” (see #104 above), which has become the right’s code (Limbaugh, Malkin, Beck all use the term frequently) to disparage not only an entire labor union, but the very idea of unions.

469 Ojoe  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:54:35pm

re: #411 ryannon

OK here’s the Towercam, but: it is foggy:

View of Fog, at the moment of posting anyway.

Enjoy ?

470 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:54:45pm

re: #462 Bagua
I liked the heads up they gave the Huffington Post, though. That was considerate, giving them ample time to get there without rushing.

471 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:55:05pm

re: #467 Racer X

I’ll live.


Certainly tho’, thats exactly the comparison you’re making, and you make no mention that there might be any difference between the 2 things.

472 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:55:15pm

re: #465 WindUpBird
Just doodling.
No response required.

473 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:55:50pm

re: #457 windsagio

Almost as irrelevant as bringing up tea parties in response to our “manufactured outrage” regarding the SEIU protests, maybe.

474 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:56:01pm

re: #407 Bagua

You find it funny that a childre: #459 WindUpBird

So let me ask you this: do you believe there should never be a protest outside someone’s home? Leaving aside tresspassing issues. Assuming they stay on public property and not his lawn.

Should that be unlawful, or do you believe it’s just simply that should Never Be Done?

Never Be Done
(except for public officials and even then NO if they live in a neighborhood)
I just don’t like it and neither does Ceiling Cat…

475 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:56:04pm

re: #441 WindUpBird

Like I said, I’m not concerned about peoples’ lawns. I’m concerned about message. If the TPers want to go stand on Pelosi, or Blanche Lincoln, or Harry Reid’s lawn and be all angry, it’s not going to bust me up inside.

But I will be checking out their signs, and what they’re saying. And if they’re calling for assassinations, THEN. THEN I get very interested!

Why make a false comparison? So your mind is so lofty you consider only ideas, not a howling mob at your doorstep? I very much doubt that would be true if you were the victim of this thuggish behaviour.

476 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:56:13pm

re: #349 brookly red

well except that the second actually happened

Point taken.

Tea Baggers hold angry mob protests and meetings, yelling racist epithets, threatening physical violence, encouraging tribal sentiment, calling the government and their supporters Nazis, Fascists, Commies, Socialists all while wielding poorly spelled signs (We’ve got badly spelled signs and we’re not afraid to use them!) = BAD

Inconsiderate asshat union members storm private residence in angry mob = not as BAD.

Is that better?

477 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:56:13pm

re: #459 WindUpBird

So let me ask you this: do you believe there should never be a protest outside someone’s home? Leaving aside tresspassing issues. Assuming they stay on public property and not his lawn.

Should that be unlawful, or do you believe it’s just simply that should Never Be Done?

Because personally, I don’t believe that it should be off limits to protest outside someone’s residence. Maybe you do, and that’s a perfectly valid disagreement we have.

Now, once it goes from a protest to stalking, or blocking the person from their residence, or making it impossible for them to leave, then it’s serious. But that’s why we have anti-stalking laws!

Yes, it should be off-limits.

These people are protesting Bank of America, and that guy’s association with Bank of America is, for the protesters, the “personification” of BofA.

Why in hell should this guy’s family be subject to having protesters outside their private home?

Same applies for any protest. Protest at the business site or a neutral site.
Do NOT protest at a person’s private home, which should be a person’s haven, a place where he can feel safe and secure from the pressures of the outside world. It’s probably not illegal to protest in a public area outside a person’s home; but it sure is unethical, and I would NEVER take part in something like that.

478 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:56:39pm

re: #469 Ojoe

OK here’s the Towercam, but: it is foggy:

View of Fog, at the moment of posting anyway.

Enjoy ?

I’ll let you know once the fog burns off.

Otherwise, I’ve always been a fan of your TowerCam posts. As well as your posts in general.

479 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:57:09pm

re: #473 TheMatrix31

As far as I remember, it was neither WUB nor I that brought up the ‘baggers in the first place. It was someone on ‘the other side’.

480 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:57:26pm

re: #466 windsagio
Sorry, I’ve got to remember that only a few can see the hash marks when they’re written in the special ink….

481 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:57:32pm

re: #467 Racer X

You just dropped a few notches.

There are still notches to lose?

482 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:58:20pm

re: #462 Bagua

Blatantly, for that exact reason they targeted his home, and not his business. They are also trying to personalise and isolate their target, they claim to be protesting a corporation, yet they single out individuals to torment at their homes knowing they will involve their family and neighbors. It is Mafia style tactics. Disgusting.

Sorry, I wildly disagree. They targeted his home likely because they could actually reach him there.

They are trying to personalize their target. I don’t believe that’s disgusting at all. It’s real. These are real people who make decisions on real peoples’ mortgages, which may well ruin their REAL lives.

Corporations are made up of people. People make those decisions. Corporations are legal entities, but they require people to make every single solitary decision.

There;s nothing mafia about any of this, and honestly what’s disgusting is the notion that people angry about their mortgages and financial policy that protects banks at the expense of homeowners are being compared to smugglers and murderers.

And involving family and neighbors? It sounds like you want such an artifically high barrier for a protest that it can’t possibly exist. A protest that affects nobody?

483 tradewind  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:58:30pm

Out like Arlen Specter./
Have a great Saturday, ya’ll.

484 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:58:50pm

Sigh.
“According to the official web site of the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) — an independent Baptist church and hate group known for its hatred of homosexuals and its protest activities (which include picketing funerals) — WBC is planning on picketing Ronnie James Dio’s public memorial service on Sunday, May 30 at 2:00 p.m. at The Hall Of Liberty located at Forest Lawn Hollywood Hills, 6300 Forest Lawn Drive, Los Angeles, California.”

[Link: www.roadrunnerrecords.com…]

485 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:58:50pm

re: #480 tradewind

Goddammit, no love for a Clue reference?

Philistines.

486 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:58:57pm

re: #466 windsagio

Actually there is something I can respond to.

Is that really what you think this is about? because let me tell you.

Communism is a Red Herring.

Mister Boddy’s body!

487 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:59:05pm

re: #485 windsagio

Goddammit, no love for a Clue reference?

Philistines.

I think we’re it :D

488 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:59:21pm

re: #138 Cato the Elder

I am not moved to tears.

Union (- -four blanks- -).

Hint…there’s a g in the answer.

Not to excuse any sort of tea-party abuse of civility, but SEIU “protests” and “demonstrations” at a banker’s home are neither. They are threats. The implicit message is this:

Look. We have mobs at our disposal. Who knows what might happen? When next our representative calls at your bank and asks for the danegeld relief for our members who are faced with foreclosure, you will see the wisdom of a positive response.

489 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:59:30pm

re: #367 Racer X

Irrelevant.

My position is: a large angry mob protesting at a personal residence is wrong.

See how easy that was? No politics involved, no mention of Tea Party or Unions.

You are right, and had Tampa not mentioned the TPers, the argument would have been less … umm, vitriolicly interesting.

490 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 2:59:32pm

re: #471 windsagio

I’ll live.

Certainly tho’, thats exactly the comparison you’re making, and you make no mention that there might be any difference between the 2 things.

Perhaps I was unclear in my original post. My point was both actions are bad. I did not feel a need to assign a scale.

No one here was defending the Tea Party, yet you made that claim using a snip from my post. Very deceitful on your part.

491 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:00:29pm

OK bottom line what would you be willing to do to protect your family? Anyone wanna go first?

492 Why I Never!  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:00:35pm

re: #466 windsagio

Actually there is something I can respond to.

Is that really what you think this is about? because let me tell you.

Communism is a Red Herring.

Clue reference! Upding!

re: #464 Gus 802

Did you see the moron from early this morning? A MrBrisco? Sheesh.

I couldn’t figure out “Nick Morgan.” Guess my Trolldar™ is broken or something.

Haha— I saw the smackdown you were giving him! Only after his posts were already nuked though.
I think I just ran into Nick when he was especially obvious.

493 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:01:01pm

re: #463 WindUpBird

I don’t really know where I have given my opinions on this board before to day, with regard to how I feel about the tactics of protesting.

I’ve talked about MESSAGES of protestors, but not about when and where I believe protesting should be appropriate.

If there’s a place I’ve been inconsistent, let me know!

The inconsistency is that you are defending these SEIU protesters who clearly acted in an intimidating and yes, thuggish, fashion, where you would be outraged if BofA employees used similar tactics at the home of the SEIU representative to protest something.

494 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:01:29pm

re: #491 brookly red

If necessary, I would kill.

Not hard to say.

495 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:01:29pm

re: #491 brookly red

OK bottom line what would you be willing to do to protect your family? Anyone wanna go first?

Anything necessary to protect them. Is there any other answer?

496 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:02:32pm

re: #490 Racer X

Don’t call me deceitful please. I posted that snip because that’s exactly what I thought you were doing, altho’ I guess its possible you weren’t doing it conciously.

Its not about misrepresenting or trying to win points, its about trying to expose and change harmful thinking patterns.

Also, people can implicitly defend things, especially when they know that explicitly defending them will just get them crap.

497 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:02:47pm

In my quest for greater irony I find at the FEC…

contributions…

BAER, GREGORY
WASHINGTON, DC 20815
WILMERHALE/ATTORNEY

DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSIONAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE
10/26/2006 250.00 28991204060

That’s the BOA attorney they protested.

I’ll look for more.

498 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:03:01pm

re: #491 brookly red

OK bottom line what would you be willing to do to protect your family? Anyone wanna go first?

Is there any question?
To the death of course.
I hope the police never accidentally kick down my door and start shooting my dogs….

499 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:03:08pm

re: #468 palomino

You’re right. There’s a lack of consistency.

Maybe part of the reluctance to join in the criticism of the SEIU protest is the fact that virtually all mention of them starts off as “SEIU thugs” (see #104 above), which has become the right’s code (Limbaugh, Malkin, Beck all use the term frequently) to disparage not only an entire labor union, but the very idea of unions.

Could be.
But if you read that story and see the photo - those folks were acting in a thuggish way. There is no way around it, IMO.

500 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:03:35pm

re: #497 Gus 802

In my quest for greater irony I find at the FEC…

contributions…

BAER, GREGORY
WASHINGTON, DC 20815
WILMERHALE/ATTORNEY

DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSIONAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE
10/26/2006 250.00 28991204060

That’s the BOA attorney they protested.

I’ll look for more.

More fun!


BAER, GREGORY A
CHEVY CHASE, MD 20815
BANK OF AMERICA/ATTORNEY

CLINTON, HILLARY RODHAM
VIA HILLARY CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT
02/22/2007 2300.00 27930580217
03/13/2007 2300.00 27930580218

501 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:03:42pm

re: #477 reine.de.tout

Yes, it should be off-limits.

These people are protesting Bank of America, and that guy’s association with Bank of America is, for the protesters, the “personification” of BofA.

Why in hell should this guy’s family be subject to having protesters outside their private home?

Same applies for any protest. Protest at the business site or a neutral site.
Do NOT protest at a person’s private home, which should be a person’s haven, a place where he can feel safe and secure from the pressures of the outside world. It’s probably not illegal to protest in a public area outside a person’s home; but it sure is unethical, and I would NEVER take part in something like that.

Well, we’re just going to have to disagree on that.

Consider this: What if I work from home? What if the things I say that are worthy of protest, I say from home?

And say I have a business location on a busy street, a storefront, perhaps. With many other stores nearby that have nothing to do with me. And people protest AT MY BUSINESS LOCATIOON, but they scare the nice lady with the thai eatery next door, and the laundromat owner across the street.

See what I’m getting at here? Protests are not perfect and clean and tidy. They’re messy affairs. It’s a bunch of angry people. It’s the world. Your home is your haven, which is why we have tresspassing laws. I think tresspassing laws do their job. If someone’s on my lawn, I can call the cops and get rid of them. In some states, I can aim a firearm at them if they;re on my property!

502 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:03:51pm

That BOA attorney is a Democrat!

:)

503 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:04:23pm

re: #450 windsagio

That story is full of loaded terms and expressions. Its an emotional piece, not a reporting piece.

The story is full of loaded terms?
And the protesters showing up at the guy’s home, with his kids there, while he’s trying to get them to and from their activities, was not loaded with emotional impact?
sheesh.

504 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:04:43pm

re: #482 WindUpBird

Sorry, I wildly disagree. They targeted his home likely because they could actually reach him there.

They are trying to personalize their target. I don’t believe that’s disgusting at all. It’s real. These are real people who make decisions on real peoples’ mortgages, which may well ruin their REAL lives.

Corporations are made up of people. People make those decisions. Corporations are legal entities, but they require people to make every single solitary decision.

There;s nothing mafia about any of this, and honestly what’s disgusting is the notion that people angry about their mortgages and financial policy that protects banks at the expense of homeowners are being compared to smugglers and murderers.

And involving family and neighbors? It sounds like you want such an artifically high barrier for a protest that it can’t possibly exist. A protest that affects nobody?

What if the protesters were not from a point of view that you find appealing? Let’s say they were against gay marriage, and instead of holding their protests in public places they showed up unannounced at the home of a gay activist? Screaming and denouncing him in his home in a large angry mob? You would be howling in rage and calling them a lynch mob. As would I.

505 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:04:51pm

re: #499 reine.de.tout

Could be.
But if you read that story and see the photo - those folks were acting in a thuggish way. There is no way around it, IMO.

“union thug” is a code word, it’s a GOP meme. It’s a talking point. I respond poorly to it because it is a talking point.

506 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:04:53pm

re: #502 Gus 802

So?

507 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:05:31pm

re: #503 reine.de.tout

I think we’re gonna have to accept that we see the thing differently.

I just bridle instinctively if I feel someones trying to manipulate me. Probably has something to do with my parents >>

That article struck me as manipulative, so I’m not gonna like it on a gut level.

508 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:05:42pm

re: #506 TheMatrix31

So?

He’s not so far off being on SEIUs side.

You don’t see the irony in that?

509 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:05:42pm

re: #132 b_sharp

Any chance we in Canada could trade our cherished Harper for your hated Obama?

Not much. We may not think he’s the One, but he’s the one we elected, and that’s that.

510 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:05:43pm

re: #496 windsagio

Don’t call me deceitful please. I posted that snip because that’s exactly what I thought you were doing, altho’ I guess its possible you weren’t doing it conciously.

Its not about misrepresenting or trying to win points, its about trying to expose and change harmful thinking patterns.

Also, people can implicitly defend things, especially when they know that explicitly defending them will just get them crap.

Bullshit.

I specifically called the tea partiers idiots. For you to now claim I was somehow unconsciously defending them and I am not aware of it is laughable.

Keep digging.

511 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:05:53pm

re: #501 WindUpBird

Are you cool with the WBC protesting at funerals? I’m not. I don’t think we need to go so far as to draft legislation to prevent them, but I don’t like it one bit.

512 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:06:25pm

re: #502 Gus 802

That BOA attorney is a Democrat!

:)

And a capitalist bastard!

513 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:06:35pm

re: #504 Bagua

What if the protesters were not from a point of view that you find appealing? Let’s say they were against gay marriage, and instead of holding their protests in public places they showed up unannounced at the home of a gay activist? Screaming and denouncing him in his home in a large angry mob? You would be howling in rage and calling them a lynch mob. As would I.

I’d be pissed. I’d be pissed AT THEIR MESSAGE.

I wouldn’t be demonizing them FOR PROTESTING.

I would be upset at the content of their message,

See the difference?

People are demonizing the SEIU thing FOR BEING A PROTEST, and not because of it’s message.

Notice nobody’s talking about the message?

Notice how everyone is sudiously AVOIDING talking about the message of the SEIU protestors?

Why is that?

514 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:06:43pm

re: #502 Gus 802

That BOA attorney is a Democrat!

:)

/Not anymore.

515 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:06:50pm

re: #512 Racer X

And a capitalist bastard!

OMG!
My brain just exploded….

516 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:06:50pm

re: #512 Racer X

And a capitalist bastard!

Here’s his contributions to Kerry:

BAER, GREGORY
CHEVY CHASE, MD 20815
WILMER CUTLER & PICKERING/ATTORNE

KERRY, JOHN F
VIA JOHN KERRY FOR PRESIDENT INC
03/26/2003 1000.00 25971195456
12/03/2003 250.00 25971206840
02/02/2004 250.00 25971214907
06/30/2004 500.00 24971352936

This is hilarious.

517 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:06:55pm

re: #511 JasonA

Are you cool with the WBC protesting at funerals? I’m not. I don’t think we need to go so far as to draft legislation to prevent them, but I don’t like it one bit.

I don’t either.
They are nasty vile people, and I sure wish there was a way to keep them away from funerals.

518 Why I Never!  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:07:03pm

re: #502 Gus 802

That BOA attorney is a Democrat!

:)

He’s a leftist plant to make bankers look bad!

/Wait…what?

519 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:07:15pm

re: #508 Gus 802

Irony in both directions, I guess.

520 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:07:28pm

re: #453 iceweasel

Hey Gus— is this guy a troll? Suspect a sleeper.
It’s been a few hours since YoungLibertarian was last banned after all. /

(Just kidding about YL, though I was pleased to see Nick Morgan got the boot—had him pegged for a stalker.)

Morgan got nailed? I missed it.

521 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:07:30pm

re: #519 TheMatrix31

Irony in both directions, I guess.

Yes.

522 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:08:10pm

re: #510 Racer X

You said they were idiots, but you also said that the the ‘morons who go after capitalism’ (which is kinda a misrepresentation anyways, since they weren’t protesting an abstraction) were also idiots.

Its the same ol’ ‘defend A by damning B, which just happens to be on the opposite side’.

You can say I’m totally wrong and mistaken, but I certainly am not being dishonest or deceitful.

523 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:08:14pm

re: #482 WindUpBird

And involving family and neighbors? It sounds like you want such an artifically high barrier for a protest that it can’t possibly exist. A protest that affects nobody?

Also… no high barrier. They have a right to protest, not to trespass. An orderly protest would also alert the police, seek any necessary permits and act in an orderly fashion in a public place. This whole escapade was not protest, it was intimidation.

524 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:08:30pm

re: #494 TheMatrix31

re: #495 ryannon

re: #498 webevintage

well then may I humbly suggest that threating or intimidating someones loved ones is just about as far down on the social scale as someone can go and there is no excuse or equivalence for it period.

525 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:08:30pm

re: #511 JasonA

Are you cool with the WBC protesting at funerals? I’m not. I don’t think we need to go so far as to draft legislation to prevent them, but I don’t like it one bit.

I am not. See! I’m not absolutist! I actually believe a funeral home should have a zone of no-protest about it. Perhaps when a funeral is in progress.

I’m also not broken up about traffic being stopped for half an hour for a funeral procession.

I absolutely believe funeral homes should be 100% off limits to protestors. Exceptions in certain cases make sense!

526 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:08:55pm

re: #517 reine.de.tout

I don’t either.
They are nasty vile people, and I sure wish there was a way to keep them away from funerals.

Even though they can’t be kept away the local community and the bikers show up and shield (and mock with mocking mockity signs) the WBC folks from the family and friends of the deceased.

527 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:08:58pm

re: #513 WindUpBird

I’d be pissed. I’d be pissed AT THEIR MESSAGE.

I wouldn’t be demonizing them FOR PROTESTING.

I would be upset at the content of their message,

See the difference?

People are demonizing the SEIU thing FOR BEING A PROTEST, and not because of it’s message.

Notice nobody’s talking about the message?

Notice how everyone is sudiously AVOIDING talking about the message of the SEIU protestors?

Why is that?

Their choice of location did them no good at all. No one is talking about the message. So, my question is - why didn’t they pick a better place to get their message out?
Why go to this guy’s HOME.

528 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:09:13pm

re: #518 iceweasel

He’s a leftist plant to make bankers look bad!

/Wait…what?

I’ll bet that protest pissed off Mr. Baer to no end. Given that he’s backed Hillary Clinton and John Kerry in their presidential bids.

I double checked the FEC filings with his address so it all checks.

529 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:09:14pm

re: #524 brookly red

100% correct.

530 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:09:32pm

re: #525 WindUpBird

Man those funeral processions piss me off.

531 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:09:40pm

re: #525 WindUpBird

I am not. See! I’m not absolutist! I actually believe a funeral home should have a zone of no-protest about it. Perhaps when a funeral is in progress.

I’m also not broken up about traffic being stopped for half an hour for a funeral procession.

I absolutely believe funeral homes should be 100% off limits to protestors. Exceptions in certain cases make sense!

Don’t they usually show up at the cemetary, like outside the gates?

532 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:10:03pm

re: #523 Bagua

Also… no high barrier. They have a right to protest, not to trespass. An orderly protest would also alert the police, seek any necessary permits and act in an orderly fashion in a public place. This whole escapade was not protest, it was intimidation.

Man, i’ve been over the tresspassing thing over and over and over

It was a protest, AND it was intimidating. Big groups of pissed people are intimidating! People shouting are intimidating! If a protest doesn’t create any emotional response, that’s a bad protest!

And again, we’re all about the guy’s lawn, and nobody wants to talk about what’s being protested.

533 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:10:16pm

re: #527 reine.de.tout

I’m guessing, but presumably because they can find him there. I’d imagine protesting outside the BOA office wouldn’t work at all for a number of reasons.

534 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:10:17pm

re: #458 Walter L. Newton

The supermarket I am currently working part time at, part of the whole Kroger mega-company, is a non-union shop, something to do with distance from the local union chapter (?)… but most all of the other stores in the chain locally are union, so, most of the rules that are followed in our store are union rules, because it’s easier for the company to do thing the same way in all stores… of course, the salary levels are different… almost the only thing different.

Unions were needed ~60 years ago, and they did change how employers treated their employees, but I think most modern employers would be fair without unions.

535 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:10:46pm

re: #517 reine.de.tout

I don’t either.
They are nasty vile people, and I sure wish there was a way to keep them away from funerals.

Legislation!

I’m honestly shocked some clever politician isn’t drafting anti-funeral-protest legislation.

536 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:10:51pm

re: #532 WindUpBird

What were they protesting?

537 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:10:56pm

re: #524 brookly red

re: #495 ryannon

re: #498 webevintage

well then may I humbly suggest that threating or intimidating someones loved ones is just about as far down on the social scale as someone can go and there is no excuse or equivalence for it period.

I agree and have stated now in 2 threads that I think it is wrong to protest outside someone’s home because of family and because the neighbors have a right not to be annoyed because their neighbor might be some kind of bastard.
(and i have no idea if the BOA dude is a bastard or not)

538 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:11:32pm

re: #532 WindUpBird

I think we might need to let this one go man.

People just can’t get over the emotional impact of ‘OH GOD THEY ATTACKED HIS FAMILY! IS NOTHING SACRED!?! AND A KID WAS SCARED TOO!’

That kind of thing fogs the lines of communication to say the least.

539 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:11:40pm

re: #534 b_sharp

Unions were needed ~60 years ago, and they did change how employers treated their employees, but I think most modern employers would be fair without unions.

I completely disagree. I could not disagree more. I have friends in health care, who work with the mentally ill, who are in the process of unionizing, because they are in wildly unsafe envrionments and being endangered on a daily basis.

540 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:11:42pm

87 degrees. Thought it was warm out there.

541 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:11:59pm

re: #534 b_sharp

Unions were needed ~60 years ago, and they did change how employers treated their employees, but I think most modern employers would be fair without unions.

I’m not a union fan, in general… I also don’t have a big problem with some of the basic reasons for a unions existence, but what they have become, in the bigger picture, a different animal.

542 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:12:24pm

re: #538 windsagio

I think we might need to let this one go man.

People just can’t get over the emotional impact of ‘OH GOD THEY ATTACKED HIS FAMILY! IS NOTHING SACRED!?! AND A KID WAS SCARED TOO!’

That kind of thing fogs the lines of communication to say the least.

Well, it’s fogging intentionally. It’s selective outrage. One kid in a house = thousands of peoples’ lives upended by mortgage games.

543 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:12:39pm

re: #469 Ojoe

OK here’s the Towercam, but: it is foggy:

View of Fog, at the moment of posting anyway.

Enjoy ?

Is that gray bear taking a crap in the fog?

544 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:12:44pm

re: #539 WindUpBird

I completely disagree. I could not disagree more. I have friends in health care, who work with the mentally ill, who are in the process of unionizing, because they are in wildly unsafe envrionments and being endangered on a daily basis.

Why drag LGF into this discussion?

545 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:12:49pm

re: #534 b_sharp

Its a different subject, but in my experience, the places with unions don’t need them anymore really, and the places without unions need them desperately.

Both sides of that will take whatever advantage they can during the time they’re in power.

546 The Shadow Do  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:12:52pm

Good day all. A slight correction to the post is in order and has probably already been reported somewhere above in the lengthy thread.

“Jefferson still lives”.

After renewed debate today, the board reinserted Jefferson (but not James Madison, who didn’t the cut) in the world history curriculum.

It would seem that enough people played enough light on the subject (thanks to Charles et all), that the board found themselves embarrassed. I did not think it possible to embarrass these fools.

547 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:13:21pm

re: #534 b_sharp

Unions were needed ~60 years ago, and they did change how employers treated their employees, but I think most modern employers would be fair without unions.

I guess you don’t work for some place like say WalMart?

548 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:13:28pm

re: #542 WindUpBird

The problem is that its dragging in innocent bystanders >>

549 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:13:33pm

re: #532 WindUpBird

Man, i’ve been over the tresspassing thing over and over and over

It was a protest, AND it was intimidating. Big groups of pissed people are intimidating! People shouting are intimidating! If a protest doesn’t create any emotional response, that’s a bad protest!

And again, we’re all about the guy’s lawn, and nobody wants to talk about what’s being protested.

I happen to think that what they’re protesting is irrelevant in this case. Maybe if the guy was a former Nazi or something…

550 [deleted]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:13:57pm
551 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:13:58pm

re: #513 WindUpBird

I’d be pissed. I’d be pissed AT THEIR MESSAGE.

I wouldn’t be demonizing them FOR PROTESTING.

I would be upset at the content of their message,

See the difference?

People are demonizing the SEIU thing FOR BEING A PROTEST, and not because of it’s message.

Notice nobody’s talking about the message?

Notice how everyone is sudiously AVOIDING talking about the message of the SEIU protestors?

Why is that?

No, not every protest is equal. While you may equally condemn the message, the actions of the protesters deserve examination as well indispensable of their message. Protesters have a legal and moral obligation not to incite violence or riot, not to trespass, especially at a persons home.

If you had chicks or eggs in your roost you may cotton on to how people feel when their home safety and family are target and intimidated.

552 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:14:00pm

re: #538 windsagio

Sorry we’re not all as clear-minded as you two are.

553 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:14:22pm

re: #537 webevintage

I agree and have stated now in 2 threads that I think it is wrong to protest outside someone’s home because of family and because the neighbors have a right not to be annoyed because their neighbor might be some kind of bastard.
(and i have no idea if the BOA dude is a bastard or not)

I don’t think neighbors have a right not to be annoyed. I don’t have the right not to be annoyed by my neighbor’s gigantic truck with the dualies and the broken muffler (sounds like) he lets idle in the morning, I don’t have the right not to be annoyed by all the commotion the kids playing in the parking lot, etc. And if my neighbors do something stupid and people protest outside my complex, oh well!

554 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:14:31pm

re: #552 TheMatrix31

Its the cross we have to bear >>

555 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:14:33pm

re: #544 ryannon

Why drag LGF into this discussion?

?

556 Red Pencil  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:14:45pm

re: #505 WindUpBird

“union thug” is a code word, it’s a GOP meme. It’s a talking point. I respond poorly to it because it is a talking point.

It is true that it is a talking point. I can even see why it makes you put your hands over your ears and stop listening. But I would like to point out that it’s a talking point because there is, at least historically, thuggish behavior on the part of union, well, thugs, to talk about.

A few decades ago a family member lost several teeth to a union “legitimate protester” for opposing unionization of his workplace. Maybe there is another word than “thug” that should be used for that fine upstanding union representative, if so you may suggest it. But it seems to me that “thug” can be a concise and readily understood descriptor as well as a talking point.

557 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:15:03pm

re: #550 brookly red

Show any real threat to the guys family except for being on his lawn.

That’s the breakdown.

558 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:15:09pm

re: #536 Racer X

Evil corporations, duh.

559 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:15:31pm

re: #491 brookly red

OK bottom line what would you be willing to do to protect your family? Anyone wanna go first?

Not “anything”. Not, for starters, fly a jetliner into a skyscraper. Not treason, generally. Not open warfare with the law. Not much that’s grossly dishonorable. Not bear false witness against an accused person I knew to be innocent, in a capital murder case.

At the end of what I would do, well, die, if that’s what it took. Or kill, if it were legal to do so, and if that would serve, and if I had the chance. As to caving, yeah, I might go silent rather than testify against a burglar.

These aren’t actually hard questions. The knowing what to do is the easy part. Getting up the nerve to actually do what you know is right if push comes to shove isn’t a walk in the park. It’s easy to declare that one has the requisite courage, and in the end many people do, but there’s only one way to find out and there are no practice rounds.

560 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:16:11pm

re: #491 brookly red

OK bottom line what would you be willing to do to protect your family? Anyone wanna go first?

Depends on the threat. Anything from nasty, no holds barred, violent wordplay to real physical violence.

561 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:16:42pm

re: #553 WindUpBird

I don’t think neighbors have a right not to be annoyed. I don’t have the right not to be annoyed by my neighbor’s gigantic truck with the dualies and the broken muffler (sounds like) he lets idle in the morning, I don’t have the right not to be annoyed by all the commotion the kids playing in the parking lot, etc. And if my neighbors do something stupid and people protest outside my complex, oh well!

When I become an evil overlord this will be a right specifically stated in my Evil Overlord Manifesto….

562 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:16:42pm

re: #560 b_sharp

Depends on the threat.

That bit is important imo.

563 allegro  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:17:32pm

re: #534 b_sharp

Unions were needed ~60 years ago, and they did change how employers treated their employees, but I think most modern employers would be fair without unions.

Do you think there’s any connection between the essential dismantling of unions since the 80s and the income disparity that has grown since, coincidentally, the 80s?

564 What, me worry?  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:17:51pm

If there’s nothing wrong with protesting on someone lawn, then why are you required to get a permit to protest or march? This wasn’t a protest. This was an angry mob. There’s a difference.

And what makes BOA any different than Chase or Wachovia, or Citibank? Should we all show up on the lawns of all these bank officers because why, we can’t pay our mortgages? Holy crap.

When out of reasonable solutions, terrorize?

565 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:18:05pm

re: #502 Gus 802

That BOA attorney is a Democrat!

:)

Don’t matter, dude.

566 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:18:12pm

re: #556 Red Pencil

It is true that it is a talking point. I can even see why it makes you put your hands over your ears and stop listening. But I would like to point out that it’s a talking point because there is, at least historically, thuggish behavior on the part of union, well, thugs, to talk about.

A few decades ago a family member lost several teeth to a union “legitimate protester” for opposing unionization of his workplace. Maybe there is another word than “thug” that should be used for that fine upstanding union representative, if so you may suggest it. But it seems to me that “thug” can be a concise and readily understood descriptor as well as a talking point.

Assault = thuggery

My friends who work with the infirm and the mentally ill and the helpless who ar eunionizing because they’re afraid for their safety and the company is intimidating their employees into silence when it comes to abuse of their clients?

“thug” is a smear, as used hand in hand with unions. It’s a concise smear.

If you want to call all union members thugs, sorry, I’m not going to listen to you. Because I know union people. Teachers’ union members. I have a hard time imagining my 4th grade teacher Ms. Miller being a “thug”. No more than I can call all christians bigots because some are radically ant-gay, you don’t get to refer to all union members as thugs because your family member was beat up by one.

567 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:18:26pm

re: #557 windsagio

Show any real threat to the guys family except for being on his lawn.

That’s the breakdown.

the law say a threat only needs to be implied & a crowd implies a threat more so if trespassing…

568 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:18:27pm

re: #558 TheMatrix31

Evil corporations, duh.

sometimes corporations do evil things.

569 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:18:29pm

re: #532 WindUpBird

Man, i’ve been over the tresspassing thing over and over and over

It was a protest, AND it was intimidating. Big groups of pissed people are intimidating! People shouting are intimidating! If a protest doesn’t create any emotional response, that’s a bad protest!

And again, we’re all about the guy’s lawn, and nobody wants to talk about what’s being protested.

You seem unclear on the concept. What is wrong is not the protest, and the message is irrelevant. What is wrong is that they were not protesting, they were seeking to personally intimidate the man and his family and acting illegally. I would have the same view regardless of what their issue was.

570 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:19:05pm

re: #567 brookly red

the law say a threat only needs to be implied & a crowd implies a threat more so if trespassing…

If you’re correct, then that bank dude has a legal case!

Somehow, I don’t believe you’re correct. :)

571 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:19:54pm

re: #565 b_sharp

Don’t matter, dude.

Sure it does. It creates an ideological conundrum for one. Secondly, SEIU borrows millions from Bank of America. Mr. Baer’s contribution to Democratic candidates are by default supporting union causes. There’s a duality of ideologies here.

572 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:20:05pm

re: #569 Bagua

You seem unclear on the concept. What is wrong is not the protest, and the message is irrelevant. What is wrong is that they were not protesting, they were seeking to personally intimidate the man and his family and acting illegally. I would have the same view regardless of what their issue was.

You’re making artifical distinctions. I am crystal clear “on the concept”.

573 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:20:19pm

re: #528 Gus 802

I’ll bet that protest pissed off Mr. Baer to no end. Given that he’s backed Hillary Clinton and John Kerry in their presidential bids.

I double checked the FEC filings with his address so it all checks.

Is there an equivalence between Dems and unions?

574 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:20:47pm

re: #573 b_sharp

Is there an equivalence between Dems and unions?

Absolutely.

575 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:20:53pm

re: #564 marjoriemoon

If there’s nothing wrong with protesting on someone lawn, then why are you required to get a permit to protest or march? This wasn’t a protest. This was an angry mob. There’s a difference.

And what makes BOA any different than Chase or Wachovia, or Citibank? Should we all show up on the lawns of all these bank officers because why, we can’t pay our mortgages? Holy crap.

When out of reasonable solutions, terrorize?

Now they’re “terrorizing”!

wow, the hyperbole today.

576 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:21:06pm

re: #568 WindUpBird

sometimes corporations do evil things.

BP anyone?

577 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:21:11pm

re: #574 Gus 802

Absolutely.

We need a real labor party in America.

578 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:21:18pm

So from what I can tell from the story, the guy walked through the protesters and entered his front door, right?

579 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:21:27pm

re: #538 windsagio

I think we might need to let this one go man.

People just can’t get over the emotional impact of ‘OH GOD THEY ATTACKED HIS FAMILY! IS NOTHING SACRED!?! AND A KID WAS SCARED TOO!’

That kind of thing fogs the lines of communication to say the least.

When you start with the ALL CAPS OMG!!! THEY ARE ALL NITWITS, it really shows how threatened you feel by views you can’t shout down through mockery. It also shows an attempt to demonise and ridicule those you disagree with on this forum. This drags down the conversation.

580 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:21:59pm

re: #576 webevintage

BP anyone?

yeah. I’m so tired of the lame sarcasm about “evil corporations”. it’s just such weakness, especially with BP on the front pages.

581 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:22:12pm

re: #579 Bagua

When you try to be an interwebs psychiatrist, it drags down the conversation.

582 What, me worry?  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:22:32pm

re: #575 WindUpBird

Now they’re “terrorizing”!

wow, the hyperbole today.

Absolutely terrorizing. What would you think if 500 people showed up screaming on your yard?

583 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:22:43pm

re: #572 WindUpBird

You’re making artifical distinctions. I am crystal clear “on the concept”.

Perhaps, we each have our perspective on this.

584 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:22:56pm

re: #579 Bagua

It’s fucking stupid, that’s what it is.

585 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:23:37pm

re: #579 Bagua

When you start with the ALL CAPS OMG!!! THEY ARE ALL NITWITS, it really shows how threatened you feel by views you can’t shout down through mockery. It also shows an attempt to demonise and ridicule those you disagree with on this forum. This drags down the conversation.

There’s a long history of mockery, sarcasm, and biting satire on LGF. It’s allowed, it’s encouraged, we all do it. it’s part of the game. You’re being selectively concerned and clucking about it.

586 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:23:49pm

re: #581 Obdicut

When you try to be an interwebs psychiatrist, it drags down the conversation.

As you do on a constant basis? Hypocrite.

587 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:24:40pm

re: #581 Obdicut

Windsaigo was the one talking about “explicit” and “implicit” demonstrations of thought and thinking patterns, sounded a bit more psychological to me. Maybe you should talk him down about playing “interweb psychologist”

588 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:24:42pm

re: #585 WindUpBird

There’s a long history of mockery, sarcasm, and biting satire on LGF. It’s allowed, it’s encouraged, we all do it. it’s part of the game. You’re being selectively concerned and clucking about it.

That rarely happens on LGF… you must be thinking of some other blog…

589 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:24:43pm

A) I don’t like any kind of angry shouty protest like this because I don’t feel it does a damn bit of good.

B) The kids are definitely innocents in this

C) I don’t think the union should have protested in this way

D) However, the guy appears to have walked through the protesters and entered his own front door, which hardly makes it seem like they were a dangerous mob.

590 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:24:58pm

re: #539 WindUpBird

I completely disagree. I could not disagree more. I have friends in health care, who work with the mentally ill, who are in the process of unionizing, because they are in wildly unsafe envrionments and being endangered on a daily basis.

Are the environments unsafe because of employer negligence or because the work is inherently dangerous? If the employer is negligent and refuses to deal with the situation then a union is necessary. But does that mean it is a general rule?

BTW, my daughter works in health care and her union is one of the most militant I’ve seen.

591 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:25:25pm

re: #579 Bagua

“threatened” isn’t the word I’d use >>

‘annoyed’ would be appropriate. I admit tho’, that that post probably wasn’t helpful. I just feel people are being manipulated, and that bugs the hell out of me.

592 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:25:27pm

re: #586 Bagua

No, I don’t, actually. Feel free to point out any time you think that I do. You won’t be able to.

re: #587 TheMatrix31

Sure, I will, if I notice him doing it.

593 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:25:35pm

What’s really behind SEIU’s Bank of America protests?

Snippets from the link:

Targeting homes and families seems to put SEIU in the ranks of (now jailed) radical animal-rights activists and the Kansas anti-gay fundamentalists harassing the grieving parents of a dead 20-year-old soldier at his funeral (the Supreme Court has agreed to weigh in on the latter). But that’s not a conversation that SEIU officials want to have.

When I asked Stephen Lerner, SEIU’s point-person on Wall Street reform, about these tactics, he accused me of getting “emotional.” Lerner was more comfortable sticking to his talking points: “Millions of people are losing their homes, and they have gone to the banks, which are turning a deaf ear.”

Perhaps government policies are partially to blame?

In the 1990s, the Baers’ former bosses, Bill and Hillary Clinton, denounced the “politics of personal destruction.” Today politicians and their voters of all stripes grieve the ugly bitterness that permeates our policy debates. Now, with populist rage providing a useful cover, it appears we’ve crossed into a new era: The politics of personal intimidation

And this is what irritates me the most. SEIU is blaming this one guy, and using intimidation on him personally, because of what is happening to entire industry. Many factors contributed to the housing collapse. Many factors contributed to the financial crash. Corporations make business decisions. Right or wrong.

Yes people are losing their homes, I get that. Painting this one guy as evil - just because he is a banking bigwig - is wrong. Period.

594 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:25:42pm

re: #582 marjoriemoon

Absolutely terrorizing. What would you think if 500 people showed up screaming on your yard?

In broad daylight? No. I would not be terrorized. I’d be surprised and probably pretty pissed. But I wouldn’t be “terrorized” unless they were actually threatening me. I’d shut the door and call the cops on them for tresspassing, and I’d wait it out.

People busting up my windows at night? that i can’t see? That’s terror. People in broad daylight that I can film with my handicam and zoom in on each one of their faces? Not terror.

595 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:25:43pm

re: #582 marjoriemoon

Absolutely terrorizing. What would you think if 500 people showed up screaming on your yard?

I won the lottery and no one told me….

no odds are I should get the shotguns…

596 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:25:44pm

re: #585 WindUpBird

There’s a long history of mockery, sarcasm, and biting satire on LGF. It’s allowed, it’s encouraged, we all do it. it’s part of the game. You’re being selectively concerned and clucking about it.

I agree, I’m not saying it is evil, just that it seems to occur quite a bit in this context from that poster. But it is nice to be able to have serious conversations some times as well, and of course we are all selectively concerned about different things, thus this dispute.

597 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:26:01pm

re: #592 Obdicut

Less than a hundred posts ago.

598 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:26:15pm

re: #580 WindUpBird

yeah. I’m so tired of the lame sarcasm about “evil corporations”. it’s just such weakness, especially with BP on the front pages.

If only employers could be allowed to treat their employees how ever they wanted without any interference from the gov’t or unions then we’d all be living in mansions and have golden unicorns that shit rainbows.
/

599 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:27:12pm

re: #589 Obdicut

A) I don’t like any kind of angry shouty protest like this because I don’t feel it does a damn bit of good.

B) The kids are definitely innocents in this

C) I don’t think the union should have protested in this way

D) However, the guy appears to have walked through the protesters and entered his own front door, which hardly makes it seem like they were a dangerous mob.

I’m more with the rowdyness than you are, and B is of course true, but it’s sort of a thing that will always happen. If people are protesting outside a business, how do they know there aren’t kids in the business?

And D is yes.

600 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:28:02pm

re: #593 Racer X

I’d go one step further— not only is it wrong, it scapegoats and detracts from the overall message. It’s counterproductive to single out an individual. It probably made the people at the shouty protest feel good.

If they’d spent the same amount of time writing letters and calling congresspeople, they’d achieve a hell of a lot more. And writing letters and calling prosecutors and district attorneys, too, letting them know they want to see more high-level white collar crime prosecuted.

601 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:28:42pm

re: #587 TheMatrix31

Windsaigo was the one talking about “explicit” and “implicit” demonstrations of thought and thinking patterns, sounded a bit more psychological to me. Maybe you should talk him down about playing “interweb psychologist”

Dude is pretty good. He knows what’s buried in my subconscious.

602 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:28:58pm

re: #591 windsagio

“threatened” isn’t the word I’d use >>

‘annoyed’ would be appropriate. I admit tho’, that that post probably wasn’t helpful. I just feel people are being manipulated, and that bugs the hell out of me.

I don’t insist my observation is exactly accurate in that word, what you said shows you can see what I’m pointing out here. I’m just saying we can have a better conversation if we focus on the dynamics a bit more and not try to offend each other through ridicule. This applies to me as well.

603 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:29:07pm

An observation before I finish off the last bit of yard work….

I’m against outlawing protests at homes. That said, I don’t support assholes who protest at people’s homes, whether it’s the Phelps clan crazies, Bill O’Reilly ambush journalism, Bloody Randall Terry and the OR crazies, or SEIU chasing fat cat bankers, they are all asses. It’s their right to protest and it’s clearly our right — no — our duty — to criticize the freaking bozos.

There are better places.

That said it should not be illegal to protest at homes - I support free speech, even for yo yo’s — because there might be a hypothetical need to protest someone at their home because that’s the only place you can?

[Think of the future David Duke in a wheel chair running stormfront from his basement or something….]

604 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:29:26pm

re: #589 Obdicut

A) I don’t like any kind of angry shouty protest like this because I don’t feel it does a damn bit of good.

B) The kids are definitely innocents in this

C) I don’t think the union should have protested in this way

D) However, the guy appears to have walked through the protesters and entered his own front door, which hardly makes it seem like they were a dangerous mob.

so please remember that when discussing the tea party folks.

605 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:29:29pm

re: #590 b_sharp

Are the environments unsafe because of employer negligence or because the work is inherently dangerous? If the employer is negligent and refuses to deal with the situation then a union is necessary. But does that mean it is a general rule?

BTW, my daughter works in health care and her union is one of the most militant I’ve seen.

The envrionment is unsafe because there are very dangerous clients being taken in by the origanization, clients too dangerous for the staff to handle, being cared for by half the staff they need, and even that half are undertrained and have not the resources. And whenever anyone complains about it, they’re intimidated or outright fired.


Your daughter is lucky. Where my friends work, been a lot of hard work to even get to the point where they can TRY to unionize.

606 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:30:04pm

re: #602 Bagua

Oh sure. Its just so frustrating sometimes.

Has bad effects to, Racer X isn’t somebody I’d like to have pisst at me on this blog.

607 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:30:31pm

re: #601 Racer X

Makes me wonder why the fuck my parents spent so much money on psychologists when I could get Windsaigo’s fresh and superb analysis for free.

608 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:30:47pm

re: #604 brookly red


My problem has been with the MESSAGE of the tea-partiers. what they advocate.

609 avanti  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:30:49pm

OK, you oil experts, I have a idea to seal the leak, but I’m probably missing something obvious. I use a pipe expander when working on auto exhaust systems. I can imagine a hydraulic expanding version of that with a pipe and open valve on one end to allow it to be inserted with the oil flowing through it so you don’t have to fight the pressure of the out flow.

Once inside, expand the cylinder to fit tightly against the pipe walls and close the valve.

610 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:31:23pm

re: #603 Thanos

An observation before I finish off the last bit of yard work…

I’m against outlawing protests at homes. That said, I don’t support assholes who protest at people’s homes, whether it’s the Phelps clan crazies, Bill O’Reilly ambush journalism, Bloody Randall Terry and the OR crazies, or SEIU chasing fat cat bankers, they are all asses. It’s their right to protest and it’s clearly our right — no — our duty — to criticize the freaking bozos.

There are better places.

That said it should not be illegal to protest at homes - I support free speech, even for yo yo’s — because there might be a hypothetical need to protest someone at their home because that’s the only place you can?

[Think of the future David Duke in a wheel chair running stormfront from his basement or something…]

I really wish you wouldn’t equate Phelps with this SEIU thing. :(

611 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:31:28pm

re: #599 WindUpBird

This guy can just say ‘Fuck it, I retire’. Will that be a win for the union? No, a guy just the same will take his place. It’s the system, not the individuals, that are broken. They could get this guy to kill himself and it wouldn’t solve any problem or heal any wound.

We just got a needed financial reform package passed; we need more prosecution of white-collar crime, which means that we need to let prosecutors and DAs, and judges, for that matter— elected law enforcement officials— know that we want them to come down hard on white collar crime.

I am baffled by the comparisons between this and the Tea Party stuff, though. There doesn’t seem to be any relevance.

612 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:31:30pm

re: #608 WindUpBird

My problem has been with the MESSAGE of the tea-partiers. what they advocate.

lower taxes?

613 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:31:56pm

re: #593 Racer X

re: #600 Obdicut

I’ve decided that this protest at this individuals was completely wrong. Even if they maintained distance from the property lines and held it in the right-of-way.

SEIU has the right to protest and the prudent thing is to protest at BOA business locations or in general public areas.

SEIU and NPA should issue an apology to Mr. Baer directly.

614 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:31:57pm

re: #604 brookly red

Please remember what?

615 Red Pencil  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:32:02pm

re: #566 WindUpBird

Assault = thuggery

“thug” is a smear, as used hand in hand with unions. It’s a concise smear.

If you want to call all union members thugs, sorry, I’m not going to listen to you. Because I know union people. Teachers’ union members. I have a hard time imagining my 4th grade teacher Ms. Miller being a “thug”. No more than I can call all christians bigots because some are radically ant-gay, you don’t get to refer to all union members as thugs because your family member was beat up by one.

I did not nor would not call all union members “thugs”. Sometimes the word is a smear, sometimes it is a description. You are putting words in my pencil.

The word “thug” in conjunction with “union” is not something that was invented by the Reagan administration; you can find it in popular culture going back to the ’30s at least, because it was descriptive. Describing anti-union Pinkertons as “thugs”, which goes back at least that far, was also a valid description.

616 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:32:14pm

re: #606 windsagio

Oh sure. Its just so frustrating sometimes.

Has bad effects to, Racer X isn’t somebody I’d like to have pisst at me on this blog.

No worries. I have a short attention span. We can kiss and make up later. No tongue.

617 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:32:31pm

re: #592 Obdicut

No, I don’t, actually. Feel free to point out any time you think that I do. You won’t be able to.

Of course Obdicut, it is a given that you will always deny, distract, claim cluelessness and condemn. I care not what you say. I ignore you unless you address me as there is no benefit in engaging someone as stubborn as you.

618 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:32:50pm

re: #613 Gus 802

re: #600 Obdicut

I’ve decided that this protest at this individuals was completely wrong. Even if they maintained distance from the property lines and held it in the right-of-way.

SEIU has the right to protest and the prudent thing is to protest at BOA business locations or in general public areas.

SEIU and NPA should issue an apology to Mr. Baer directly.

Agreed.

619 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:32:59pm

Hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) are leaving the church every year, “non-religious” (atheist, agnostic, non-aligned) is the fastest growing religious affiliation in this country. The far right evangelicals are scared, scared because they are losing both their majority and political power at the same time. Why are they over in Uganda campaigning for a law that would allow Gays to be executed while explicitly saying “Uganda is a Christian country while the united states no longer is.”

Rather than accept that they have abandoned the gospel in favor of political bullshit and that their own behaviour is what is destroying the church they instead strive even harder to leave the gospel behind.

I must have missed the part of the bible where Christ said that true Christians should overthrow the government and create a theocracy in his name. All I recall is His saying to give Rome it’s due…

/I guess I need more Bible study.

620 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:33:11pm

re: #614 Obdicut

Please remember what?

that no violence was actually committed.

621 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:33:22pm

re: #612 brookly red

“The blood of Tyrants”

or if you prefer,

“Go back to Africa!”

622 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:33:29pm

re: #615 Red Pencil

Describing anti-union Pinkertons as “thugs”, which goes back at least that far, was also a valid description.

I think murderers might be an even better word….

623 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:33:30pm

re: #613 Gus 802

SEIU should also issue an apology to all the people who have mortgage problems, for confusing the issue and garnering sympathy for the banks.

re: #615 Red
Pencil

Describe the Pinkertons as thugs would actually be a lot more accurate.

624 What, me worry?  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:33:37pm

re: #594 WindUpBird

In broad daylight? No. I would not be terrorized. I’d be surprised and probably pretty pissed. But I wouldn’t be “terrorized” unless they were actually threatening me. I’d shut the door and call the cops on them for tresspassing, and I’d wait it out.

People busting up my windows at night? that i can’t see? That’s terror. People in broad daylight that I can film with my handicam and zoom in on each one of their faces? Not terror.

lol What do you consider threatening? You think they came for tea and cookies? Why did the boy hide in the bathroom? He must have been a real wussy, eh?

625 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:33:58pm

re: #611 Obdicut

This guy can just say ‘Fuck it, I retire’. Will that be a win for the union? No, a guy just the same will take his place. It’s the system, not the individuals, that are broken. They could get this guy to kill himself and it wouldn’t solve any problem or heal any wound.

We just got a needed financial reform package passed; we need more prosecution of white-collar crime, which means that we need to let prosecutors and DAs, and judges, for that matter— elected law enforcement officials— know that we want them to come down hard on white collar crime.

I am baffled by the comparisons between this and the Tea Party stuff, though. There doesn’t seem to be any relevance.

I think the protest is valuable not because of the guy they’re targeting, but because it sorta gets the message across that real people make these decisions, that it’s not some monolithic logo, some alien entity called a “corporation” doing it. I think it gets more press and becomes a more compelling story than if they just go outside a bank branch or whatnot. Protesting a decision made by a person, as opposed to protesting an abstract.

But I agree about that if the guy retires, nothing changes.

626 [deleted]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:34:11pm
627 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:34:17pm

re: #563 allegro

Do you think there’s any connection between the essential dismantling of unions since the 80s and the income disparity that has grown since, coincidentally, the 80s?

The income disparity is partly because of unions. California unionized workers are paid, counting retirement benefits, on the order of twice what private sector workers with comparable duties earn. That money comes out of the taxpayers’ hides, and it’s a prime reason why CA is going broke.

Another part of the reason for income disparity is skill disparity. With the rise of roboticized production, there is less demand for skilled craftsmen in the ordinary sense, and more demand for the craftsman who knows algebra and can navigate CAD/CAM, spreadsheets, and algorithms. The robots are what in the military is called a “force multiplier”; they make such workers hugely productive. The same thing has happened in management. Middle management has seen its ranks depleted as the many routine data-crunching tasks that used to be sent their way now go to computer programs. The strategist who is good at seeing the big picture can now implement his/her vision with a leaner organization. More “horizontal”. Again, force multipliers.

The musician or film maker with top talent can sell endless copies of his/her work. High-fidelity speakers and digital recording and reproduction of music and video make the cheap reproduction and dissemination of the work possible.

If the rules of basketball shifted so that a basket from mid-court was worth 20 points, there would be a great demand for mid-court shooters and a desperately limited supply. The few whose shooting was good enough to make those 20-pointers a profitable game plan would earn big bucks.

Unions aren’t the answer to a winner-take-all economy. The progressive income tax smoothly and efficiently milks the big earner while sparing the little guy. These few who fit into the new economy just right and make bazillions are paying their way. For every dollar they spend on themselves, they generate three in value to the economy. One goes to the consumer, who gets a great song or what have you at a price below what it’s worth to them. One goes to the government in taxes. And one goes to the super-producer. It’s a workable system. It ain’t broke, and we shouldn’t fix it beyond adustments at the margins.

628 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:34:18pm

re: #623 Obdicut

Oh, sorry, that’s what you said, Red Pencil. Apologies.

629 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:34:23pm

re: #610 WindUpBird

Why not? They both protest at homes. Sorry, they might be large degrees apart in evil, but you need to see everything you are supporting when you say you support home protesting.

Randall Terry and co used to protest abortion dr’s at their homes.

630 What, me worry?  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:34:24pm

re: #593 Racer X

What’s really behind SEIU’s Bank of America protests?

Snippets from the link:

And this is what irritates me the most. SEIU is blaming this one guy, and using intimidation on him personally, because of what is happening to entire industry. Many factors contributed to the housing collapse. Many factors contributed to the financial crash. Corporations make business decisions. Right or wrong.

Yes people are losing their homes, I get that. Painting this one guy as evil - just because he is a banking bigwig - is wrong. Period.

Right on.

631 palomino  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:34:39pm

re: #499 reine.de.tout

Could be.
But if you read that story and see the photo - those folks were acting in a thuggish way. There is no way around it, IMO.

You’re right. That group was. But the right’s meme for years has been that nearly all unions are equivalent to the mafia. It harkens back to the days of Jimmy Hoffa, and it means to smear the entire idea of organized labor.

632 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:35:14pm

re: #626 WindUpBird

Damn, I didn’t know every tea partier advocated this.

633 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:35:48pm

re: #625 WindUpBird

This thread should show you the effect of the protest, dude. If it makes people like Gus and me think that the protest was wrong-headed and assholish, then it was counterproductive. This is like Critical Mass. Sure, they have a point, but this is not the way I want to see things done.

Like I said, if they channeled their energy into letter-writing, they’d achieve a fuckload more.

634 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:36:02pm

re: #577 WindUpBird

We need a real labor party in America.

You said it, bro.

635 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:36:13pm

re: #589 Obdicut

A) I don’t like any kind of angry shouty protest like this because I don’t feel it does a damn bit of good.

B) The kids are definitely innocents in this

C) I don’t think the union should have protested in this way

D) However, the guy appears to have walked through the protesters and entered his own front door, which hardly makes it seem like they were a dangerous mob.

He’s an adult. And even if he’s desperately afraid, his best course, his only course really, is to march right up to his door and go in. He has to set a good example for his family and for the wider world.

636 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:36:58pm

re: #624 marjoriemoon

lol What do you consider threatening? You think they came for tea and cookies? Why did the boy hide in the bathroom? He must have been a real wussy, eh?

The kid was threatened, because he’s a kid! People are shouting! As a kid, I felt threatened by dogs. Not even big ones! I’m still not that confortable around dogs.

So what you’re saying is nobody can protest if someone is afraid of the protest? If one person is freaked out by a loud group of people, that’s it, they’re now thugs?

I have a friend who is afraid of crowds. She doesn’t leave the house much. She’s in ther 40’s.

It just sounds like the vibe here is “Let’s demonize the very act of protesting because it might upset someone.”. What is that about?

637 [deleted]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:37:08pm
638 webevintage  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:38:12pm

re: #634 ryannon

You said it, bro.

I love the first comment there:
Ah, back when the working class realized the rich didn’t give two shits about them.
Too bad these days so many have been fooled.

639 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:38:29pm

re: #606 windsagio

Oh sure. Its just so frustrating sometimes.

Has bad effects to, Racer X isn’t somebody I’d like to have pisst at me on this blog.

I know, we all get frustrated and snip at each other from time to time.

640 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:38:41pm

re: #635 lostlakehiker

Um, no. He could also wait for the cops, or say ‘fuck it’ and go have a beer. The fact that he made it to his front door, also, says that they weren’t being violent.

There have been real, violent union protests in the past— and often for good reason. I hope we don’t see those days again, but this is nothing like that. As I’ve said, I think it was stupid, I think it was wrong-headed, and I think it was ineffective, but it’s not nearly as much concern to me— as WindUpBird said, and I agree with— as people threatening to kill the president, talking about armed uprisings, or killing cops.

641 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:39:48pm

re: #629 Thanos

Why not? They both protest at homes. Sorry, they might be large degrees apart in evil, but you need to see everything you are supporting when you say you support home protesting.

Randall Terry and co used to protest abortion dr’s at their homes.

And I don’t like Randall terry, and I don’t like his MESSAGE.

My problem with Terry is that his rhetoric was (and is) ADVOCAING VIOLENCE. His website with all the abortion doctors being killed, the thing with them being crossed out like they’re planes the Red Baron shot down?

That is DIFFERENT. than what these SEIU guys are doing. THEY ARE NOT ADVOCATING VIOLENCE. I understand protesting abortion. I get it. Terry isn’t just protesting abortion doctors, his rhetoric is advocating their murder.

Big big BIG difference.


And again. I talk about message. And then I get ignored, because the message of the SEIU people is NOT violence, is NOt advocating murder.

Gosh I get tired of repeating myself. :(

642 Macha  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:40:41pm

re: #534 b_sharp

Unions were needed ~60 years ago, and they did change how employers treated their employees, but I think most modern employers would be fair without unions.

I heartily disagree. I feel most employers would cut every corner possible to increase their profit. Safety first comes to mind. Just think about how many rules have needed to be put in place because of businesses placing employees in unsafe situations. What comes easily to mind is the most recent coal mine disaster. And think of the airlines that habitually required pilots to fly long hours past the point that it is safe to do so. I could name hundreds of examples and most people here could also. Where money is involved, exploitation of the employee has been and is alive and well.

643 What, me worry?  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:40:58pm

re: #636 WindUpBird

The kid was threatened, because he’s a kid! People are shouting! As a kid, I felt threatened by dogs. Not even big ones! I’m still not that confortable around dogs.

So what you’re saying is nobody can protest if someone is afraid of the protest? If one person is freaked out by a loud group of people, that’s it, they’re now thugs?

I have a friend who is afraid of crowds. She doesn’t leave the house much. She’s in ther 40’s.

It just sounds like the vibe here is “Let’s demonize the very act of protesting because it might upset someone.”. What is that about?

Oh no, that’s not what was said at all. One is an angry mob. The other is a legal protest. Two different things and I said that already.

If they wanted to protest, they should have showed up at the office where this man does business. We had the carpenter’s union protest outside our offices for 2 years. I’m not kidding. From about 9a to 2p, every day. Something about contract bidding. They were loud, sang, banged drums. You could hear them inside the building.

I’m a huge advocate for protests. It’s one of the backbones of this nation. We are guaranteed peaceful assembly. This was not peaceful, nor was it legal. And that the cops would sanction this kind of trespassing is disgraceful. Seems he has a huge lawsuit.

644 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:40:59pm

re: #603 Thanos

An observation before I finish off the last bit of yard work…

I’m against outlawing protests at homes. That said, I don’t support assholes who protest at people’s homes, whether it’s the Phelps clan crazies, Bill O’Reilly ambush journalism, Bloody Randall Terry and the OR crazies, or SEIU chasing fat cat bankers, they are all asses. It’s their right to protest and it’s clearly our right — no — our duty — to criticize the freaking bozos.

There are better places.

That said it should not be illegal to protest at homes - I support free speech, even for yo yo’s — because there might be a hypothetical need to protest someone at their home because that’s the only place you can?

[Think of the future David Duke in a wheel chair running stormfront from his basement or something…]

Well said. We can’t get in the habit of making civilized behavior the law.

645 brookly red  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:41:08pm

well I guess I should take the hint and wish you all a good night :)

646 What, me worry?  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:41:26pm

re: #636 WindUpBird

The kid was threatened, because he’s a kid! People are shouting! As a kid, I felt threatened by dogs. Not even big ones! I’m still not that confortable around dogs.

So what you’re saying is nobody can protest if someone is afraid of the protest? If one person is freaked out by a loud group of people, that’s it, they’re now thugs?

I have a friend who is afraid of crowds. She doesn’t leave the house much. She’s in ther 40’s.

It just sounds like the vibe here is “Let’s demonize the very act of protesting because it might upset someone.”. What is that about?

And btw, if that was me, and I’m a 48 non-agoraphobic woman, I would have been petrified.

647 Linden Arden  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:41:45pm

re: #12 TampaKnight

I find it ironic that Republicans in Texas are striking the first Republican president from their history books.

I thought Lincoln was the first Republican president - and Andrew Jackson was officially the first Democrat.

(maybe addressed upthread)

648 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:41:59pm

re: #641 WindUpBird

Then don’t repeat yourself. We could use the break.

649 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:42:39pm

re: #633 Obdicut

This thread should show you the effect of the protest, dude. If it makes people like Gus and me think that the protest was wrong-headed and assholish, then it was counterproductive. This is like Critical Mass. Sure, they have a point, but this is not the way I want to see things done.

Like I said, if they channeled their energy into letter-writing, they’d achieve a fuckload more.

ahaha Critical mass! Fair enough, I’m not a fan of Critical Mass. They’re pretty goddamn annoying in Portland sometimes :D

I don’t know about letter writing though. I DEFINITELY agree there are more creative and awesome ways to protest a bank than just shouting on a bigwig’s lawn. I’m a smart guy, you’re a smart guy, we’re very internet, we probably share a love of clever stuff like flash mobs and things. A flash mob, a big demonstration thats organzied and not just shouting, but has a huge message, something synchronized that is impossible to ignore.

That’s what I’d dig.

650 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:42:41pm

re: #641 WindUpBird

That is a good point, but the Phelps clan are non violent. They aren’t advocating violence, they are stating that God hates … well you know their hate message…
Same for O’Reilly and the rest of the ambush journos - none of them are advocating violence either.

651 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:43:47pm

re: #643 marjoriemoon

Oh no, that’s not what was said at all. One is an angry mob. The other is a legal protest. Two different things and I said that already.

If they wanted to protest, they should have showed up at the office where this man does business. We had the carpenter’s union protest outside our offices for 2 years. I’m not kidding. From about 9a to 2p, every day. Something about contract bidding. They were loud, sang, banged drums. You could hear them inside the building.

I’m a huge advocate for protests. It’s one of the backbones of this nation. We are guaranteed peaceful assembly. This was not peaceful, nor was it legal. And that the cops would sanction this kind of trespassing is disgraceful. Seems he has a huge lawsuit.

We’ll see if he does! If he does file a lawsuit and he wins, I’ll happily stand corrected.

652 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:44:27pm

re: #641 WindUpBird

And I don’t like Randall terry, and I don’t like his MESSAGE.

My problem with Terry is that his rhetoric was (and is) ADVOCAING VIOLENCE. His website with all the abortion doctors being killed, the thing with them being crossed out like they’re planes the Red Baron shot down?

That is DIFFERENT. than what these SEIU guys are doing. THEY ARE NOT ADVOCATING VIOLENCE. I understand protesting abortion. I get it. Terry isn’t just protesting abortion doctors, his rhetoric is advocating their murder.

Big big BIG difference.

And again. I talk about message. And then I get ignored, because the message of the SEIU people is NOT violence, is NOt advocating murder.

Gosh I get tired of repeating myself. :(

I agree that they are not advocating violence and that this is more a question of bad form and at most a misdemeanor or two. There are much worse crimes to be sure.

653 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:44:28pm

re: #643 marjoriemoon

Oh no, that’s not what was said at all. One is an angry mob. The other is a legal protest. Two different things and I said that already.

If they wanted to protest, they should have showed up at the office where this man does business. We had the carpenter’s union protest outside our offices for 2 years. I’m not kidding. From about 9a to 2p, every day. Something about contract bidding. They were loud, sang, banged drums. You could hear them inside the building.

I’m a huge advocate for protests. It’s one of the backbones of this nation. We are guaranteed peaceful assembly. This was not peaceful, nor was it legal. And that the cops would sanction this kind of trespassing is disgraceful. Seems he has a huge lawsuit.

I’m curious because this took place in Chevy Chase, MD. DC police don’t have jurisdiction there.

654 allegro  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:44:29pm

re: #643 marjoriemoon

I’m a huge advocate for protests. It’s one of the backbones of this nation. We are guaranteed peaceful assembly. This was not peaceful, nor was it legal. And that the cops would sanction this kind of trespassing is disgraceful. Seems he has a huge lawsuit.

Now, this is why I am discomforted by the actions taken in this instance. There is already the “union thugs” meme and this has just added to the arsenal to make it appear like a universal truth for those who wish to promote. It was counterproductive in the extreme.

655 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:47:02pm

re: #649 WindUpBird

Actually just sitting down and writing a letter to your representatives, your senator, your state reps, your state senators, your governor, the DA, etc. etc. is more effective than any actual physical protest, barring large marches on Washington.

Think that Bush gave a tenth of a half of a dried up crap that people protested the war— or anything else— in San Francisco?

The board of BOA is glad that this protest happened, I’ll bet. They ought to be— now their dude looks like a victim. That’s not what you want in a protest.

The civil rights marches were powerful because they were the ones being attacked.

Can you name a protest of this kind that was ‘successful’?

656 Macha  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:47:17pm

re: #650 Thanos

That is a good point, but the Phelps clan are non violent. They aren’t advocating violence, they are stating that God hates … well you know their hate message…
Same for O’Reilly and the rest of the ambush journos - none of them are advocating violence either.

A case could be made that they are inflicting a form of psychological violence on the people they are targeting. I can only imagine the pain they have caused at many of the funerals at which they have appeared. Violence does not always have to be physical.

657 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:47:24pm

re: #651 WindUpBird

Last chance; I’m gonna go out, wanna have a beer and lunch?

658 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:47:26pm

re: #650 Thanos

That is a good point, but the Phelps clan are non violent. They aren’t advocating violence, they are stating that God hates … well you know their hate message…
Same for O’Reilly and the rest of the ambush journos - none of them are advocating violence either.

I would argue the Phelps clan is advocating violence in a roundbaout way. “Thank God for aids” and “turn or burn” and “You’re going to hell” I would say are in that abllpark, but they’re not advocacy.

O’Reilly said that thing about how he thinks terrorists should hit San Francisco.

“I hope you die and are tortured” is sort of a strong thing, you know?

659 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:48:42pm

re: #657 windsagio

Last chance; I’m gonna go out, wanna have a beer and lunch?

Oh right, and don’t invite the rest of us?

660 What, me worry?  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:48:49pm

re: #654 allegro

Now, this is why I am discomforted by the actions taken in this instance. There is already the “union thugs” meme and this has just added to the arsenal to make it appear like a universal truth for those who wish to promote. It was counterproductive in the extreme.

Actually I’m surprised a union would do a “protest” like this. I think they usually work within the law, so it seems odd. I mean, they couldn’t have possibly received a permit to protest on his yard. Maybe on the street and sidewalk outside the house… I have no idea.

The Westboro Church protests within the law. They’re smart that way, at least for the time being. Yes, they’re abhorrent, but they are careful not to go to jail.

661 What, me worry?  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:49:34pm

re: #653 Gus 802

I’m curious because this took place in Chevy Chase, MD. DC police don’t have jurisdiction there.

Well, that’s kind like saying if a cop sees a crime in another district, he’s just supposed to stand there? Something is weird with this one.

662 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:50:05pm

re: #659 Bagua

I’d have to already be drunk to go anyway.

663 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:50:37pm

re: #659 Bagua

Oh right, and don’t invite the rest of us?


If you can make it to the Victory Bar on division in half an hour!

664 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:52:02pm

re: #662 TheMatrix31

I’d have to already be drunk to go anyway.

Nah, don’t say that. We’d all get along swimmingly in person. Probably laugh at most of the things we get angry at on the screen.

665 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:52:37pm

re: #662 TheMatrix31

I’d have to already be drunk to go anyway.

ya know, we’re pretty mellow in person! Many are the people I have tangled with on forums elsewhere that I wound up getting along with in person. ;-)

666 allegro  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:52:42pm

re: #660 marjoriemoon

Actually, to me it’s not a legal issue, it’s more a moral one. And I mean a moral issue beyond presenting a threatening image to a man’s family. I mean a moral issue in respect to the goals of the union and the people it is representing and the millions of people who have been harmed by the mortgage debacle. This is not bringing to light that plight and the actions of the banking industry that have contributed to it or caused it outright. Just the opposite.

667 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:52:51pm

re: #664 Bagua

Nah, don’t say that. We’d all get along swimmingly in person. Probably laugh at most of the things we get angry at on the screen.

ahahaha GET OUT OF MY HEEEAAAAAD

668 Virginia Plain  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:52:56pm

A 26-page recipe for brownies? Only the Pentagon can come up with this stuff:

Baking brownies is one of the easiest things you can do in the kitchen. Most recipes have fewer than 10 ingredients, and the instructions are simple — measure, mix, bake.

Well, not if you’re baking for the Pentagon. The latest viral sensation to hit the Internet is a 26-page document laying out all the rules and regulations you need to follow to bake appropriate treats for our men and women in uniform.

Take Section 3.2.6 of the recipe, for example, which covers eggs. It reads, in part, “Whole eggs may be liquid or frozen and shall have been processed and labeled in accordance with the Regulations Governing the Inspection of Eggs and Egg Products (7 CFR Part 59).”

You get the picture.

And I bet they taste like cardboard. Maybe it’s a good thing that third-party contractors are allowed to provide food on bases.

669 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:53:42pm

re: #661 marjoriemoon

Well, that’s kind like saying if a cop sees a crime in another district, he’s just supposed to stand there? Something is weird with this one.

Looking at the map now. His house is about 3 blocks from the DC border.

On a side note. This protest means that they would have had advertised his home address. That’s always been frowned upon because in many cases such as this it is looked as inciting violence when this is done.

670 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:54:06pm

re: #663 WindUpBird

If you can make it to the Victory Bar on division in half an hour!

Yeah, like all of us can fly or something, geesh!

671 windsagio  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:54:12pm

I for one just haven’t seen a person I actually konw since Wed, that makes you kinda crazy.

I’ll leave you guys with this!

Hell of a song!

672 TheMatrix31  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:54:50pm

re: #664 Bagua


Eh, I have my doubts on that.

673 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:55:53pm

re: #669 Gus 802

I have seen protests at homes done peacefully and tastefully, like a candlelight vigil outside a judge’s house who was presiding in a murder trial and had disallowed a crucial piece of evidence for the defense.

I agree that “We know where you live” is by default threatening and that something needs to ameliorate it if it’s not to be seen as a threat.

674 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:56:31pm

speaking of beer, I swear, the Piraat is like 15%. ([Link: beeradvocate.com…] I have two of the little 12oz bottles and I am DRUNK. And I can normally drink many beers and not feel it!

675 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:56:46pm

re: #670 Bagua

Yeah, like all of us can fly or something, geesh!

:D

676 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:57:27pm

re: #673 Obdicut

I have seen protests at homes done peacefully and tastefully, like a candlelight vigil outside a judge’s house who was presiding in a murder trial and had disallowed a crucial piece of evidence for the defense.

I agree that “We know where you live” is by default threatening and that something needs to ameliorate it if it’s not to be seen as a threat.

Correct. That’s how it is practiced here. The posting of personal addresses are forbidden.

677 Red Pencil  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:57:36pm

re: #674 WindUpBird

speaking of beer, I swear, the Piraat is like 15%. ([Link: beeradvocate.com…] I have two of the little 12oz bottles and I am DRUNK. And I can normally drink many beers and not feel it!


Much has been explained.

678 What, me worry?  Sat, May 22, 2010 3:59:57pm

re: #666 allegro

Actually, to me it’s not a legal issue, it’s more a moral one. And I mean a moral issue beyond presenting a threatening image to a man’s family. I mean a moral issue in respect to the goals of the union and the people it is representing and the millions of people who have been harmed by the mortgage debacle. This is not bringing to light that plight and the actions of the banking industry that have contributed to it or caused it outright. Just the opposite.

I agree, but the law doesn’t legislate morality, or what “appears” to be right or wrong. I tend to look at the legal aspect when it comes to things like this. Trespassing is against the law, which is why if anyone shows up on your yard, and you tell them to leave and they don’t, you can call the cops. Well that’s how it’s supposed to work!

But yes, it doesn’t seem to be the most effective way to resolve the problem. It may make THEM feel better however.

679 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:00:03pm

re: #669 Gus 802

Looking at the map now. His house is about 3 blocks from the DC border.

On a side note. This protest means that they would have had advertised his home address. That’s always been frowned upon because in many cases such as this it is looked as inciting violence when this is done.

I guess I would draw a distinction between organizing a protest to go to a guy’s address, and publicizing the guy’s address on the internet or whatnot as part of the protest.

I’m sorta splitting hairs, but I do agree that publishing someone’s address and saying HERE HE IS, that’s intimidating by its nature.

But say, meeting up somewhere, and then everyone goes to the guy’s house but it isn’t like, spread everywhere or publicized, is different. There are Holywood tours of famous peoples’ houses, we don’t have the right to have our addresses kept secret, but there’s a line.

680 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:00:34pm

re: #619 ausador

For those that still doubt what the “Evangelicals” are up to in Uganda here is a little investigative journalism that proves it. If you are at all interested you should try to make the time to watch it.

[Link: www.hulu.com…]


(once again made to feel ashamed to call myself Christian, and pissed about it) :(

681 What, me worry?  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:00:37pm

re: #673 Obdicut

I have seen protests at homes done peacefully and tastefully, like a candlelight vigil outside a judge’s house who was presiding in a murder trial and had disallowed a crucial piece of evidence for the defense.

I agree that “We know where you live” is by default threatening and that something needs to ameliorate it if it’s not to be seen as a threat.

Didn’t Code Pink protest outside of Pelosi’s home? But they never went on the yard. They stayed on the sidewalk, IIR.

682 Aceofwhat?  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:00:51pm

hey all.

nice talk about the protests…i have nothing to add.

i’ve returned from the battlefield; the Babolat sang her beautiful, terrible song of fury and destruction.

now clean and drinking a protein shake, watching Return of the Jedi with my son.

life is good.

683 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:00:58pm

re: #677 Red Pencil

Much has been explained.

Hey! I’m stone sober at the moment!

believe me, if I’md rinking on LGF, it makes me a LOT nicer and happier. I post rock videos and make silly jokes.

684 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:01:31pm

re: #682 Aceofwhat?

hey all.

nice talk about the protests…i have nothing to add.

i’ve returned from the battlefield; the Babolat sang her beautiful, terrible song of fury and destruction.

now clean and drinking a protein shake, watching Return of the Jedi with my son.

life is good.

The classic Jedi or the one Lucas CGI fiddled with? :D

685 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:02:36pm

re: #666 allegro

Actually, to me it’s not a legal issue, it’s more a moral one. And I mean a moral issue beyond presenting a threatening image to a man’s family. I mean a moral issue in respect to the goals of the union and the people it is representing and the millions of people who have been harmed by the mortgage debacle. This is not bringing to light that plight and the actions of the banking industry that have contributed to it or caused it outright. Just the opposite.

I will happily agree that going to that guy’s house is not the most effective way to protest. :) There are far more creative ways to protest that don’t involve just GO YELL AT THIS GUY

686 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:02:50pm

re: #682 Aceofwhat?

But it could have been a planet full of Wookies!

After I found that out, ROJ was ruined for me.

687 allegro  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:03:14pm

re: #678 marjoriemoon

Clearly, we agree that this was a real bad plan. ;)

688 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:03:30pm

re: #674 WindUpBird

speaking of beer, I swear, the Piraat is like 15%. ([Link: beeradvocate.com…] I have two of the little 12oz bottles and I am DRUNK. And I can normally drink many beers and not feel it!

Light weight.

689 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:03:37pm

re: #658 WindUpBird

And if you’re going to stretch then I could point out that there are hotheads in every union, some who do advocate and some who do practice violence. (I once took a thrown hammer in the back to shield a pregnant woman at an IBEW picket. She was just there to pick up her husband’s check — meanwhile he was in the picket line screaming at the rowdies to cut it out as they finished breaking the last bit of glass out of his car….) SEIU is not an exception to that, I am sure there are a few examples out there.

690 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:03:44pm

re: #685 WindUpBird

I will happily agree that going to that guy’s house is not the most effective way to protest. :) There are far more creative ways to protest that don’t involve just GO YELL AT THIS GUY

Which is a point I tried to make here:


re: #527 reine.de.tout

Their choice of location did them no good at all. No one is talking about the message. So, my question is - why didn’t they pick a better place to get their message out?
Why go to this guy’s HOME.

691 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:03:57pm

re: #686 Obdicut

But it could have been a planet full of Wookies!

After I found that out, ROJ was ruined for me.

I have a friend who has a fursuit of an ewok. She looks like EXACTLY LIKE AN EWOK when she’s dressed up. Perfect build, the little spear and the animal skin hood thing. :D

692 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:04:52pm

re: #688 NJDhockeyfan

Light weight.

see, I’m not, though! I can drink six of these and I’m fine: [Link: www.rogue.com…]

I don’t know why it’s the Piraats. Just that, they just get on top of me.

693 Aceofwhat?  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:05:03pm

re: #684 WindUpBird

The classic Jedi or the one Lucas CGI fiddled with? :D

eh, they don’t play the classic ones anymore…but he won’t know the difference!

694 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:05:42pm

Okay. Splitting headache and a sink full of dishes. See you all later.

re: #691 WindUpBird

It ain’t exact unless she stinks like an Ewok, too.

695 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:05:54pm

re: #690 reine.de.tout

Which is a point I tried to make here:

Amazing how we all agree in the end.

696 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:08:12pm

re: #685 WindUpBird

I will happily agree that going to that guy’s house is not the most effective way to protest. :) There are far more creative ways to protest that don’t involve just GO YELL AT THIS GUY

Right. Go yell at this guy! In the end it was not covered by the MSM. It was covered by Glenn Beck and Fox News so all it accomplished was negative publicity for SEIU and NPA. Whatever grievances these protesters have with BOA has been masked by the immature protest and trespassing. Not only that but this protest has fed into the Obama conspiracies since some are claiming that this was somehow connected to the administration.

So in the end all it accomplished was even more negative publicity for SEIU, NPA (if anyone even remembers them), the Metro Police Department, and the greater expansion of Obama conspiracies.

697 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:08:22pm

re: #690 reine.de.tout

I agree with that point, I just don’t believe it should be off limits to go to the guy’s house.

I love clever protests! I love culture jamming, information manipulation, flash mobs, and that stuff. I love a stunt that gets attention. I love the Merry Pranksters, I love Ken Kesey. That stunt where they threw dollar bills onto the floor of the NYSE. genius.

698 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:08:34pm

re: #693 Aceofwhat?

eh, they don’t play the classic ones anymore…but he won’t know the difference!

Yes, but you do!

699 allegro  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:09:48pm

re: #696 Gus 802

So in the end all it accomplished was even more negative publicity for SEIU, NPA (if anyone even remembers them), the Metro Police Department, and the greater expansion of Obama conspiracies.

There it is.

700 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:12:00pm

re: #689 Thanos

And if you’re going to stretch then I could point out that there are hotheads in every union, some who do advocate and some who do practice violence. (I once took a thrown hammer in the back to shield a pregnant woman at an IBEW picket. She was just there to pick up her husband’s check — meanwhile he was in the picket line screaming at the rowdies to cut it out as they finished breaking the last bit of glass out of his car…) SEIU is not an exception to that, I am sure there are a few examples out there.

There’s bad union members, and there’s bad businessmen. There’s bad everywhere!

I guess I’m more worried about the bad businessmen these days, because they seem to do a lot more harm than some asshole union guy. It’s a balance, I just don’t like the selective outrage about unions bad behavior and the ignoring of the reasons the unions are there in the first place.

I like labor laws! I like collective bargaining. I like overtime and vacation time.

701 Aceofwhat?  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:12:28pm

re: #698 WindUpBird

Yes, but you do!

heh…i probably wouldn’t have it on if i wasn’t watching it with my little dude…

702 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:14:33pm

re: #692 WindUpBird

see, I’m not, though! I can drink six of these and I’m fine: [Link: www.rogue.com…]

I don’t know why it’s the Piraats. Just that, they just get on top of me.

My brother brought back some very strong beer from Germany once. It was called Parkbrau Perminator.

703 Gus  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:15:59pm

Back later!

704 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:16:07pm

re: #655 Obdicut

The civil rights marches were powerful because they were the ones being attacked.

Can you name a protest of this kind that was ‘successful’?

I guess it dpends what success means, but you and Gus are making good arguments.

705 pharmmajor  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:16:08pm

FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!

706 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:16:34pm

re: #705 pharmmajor

Now?

707 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:16:39pm

re: #688 NJDhockeyfan

Light weight.

If you can drink a full four pack of “Mickey’s Big Mouth Malt Liquor” and then stand up without wobbling you will forever lose the “lightweight” label.

That stuff is killer, ice cold is isn’t that bad, but let it warm up at all and it is completely disgusting.

708 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:16:54pm

re: #702 NJDhockeyfan

My brother brought back some very strong beer from Germany once. It was called Parkbrau Perminator.

mmmm dopplebocks, that’s generally what the -ator means

709 pharmmajor  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:17:11pm

re: #706 JasonA

Now?

I was out running errands and didn’t get back until now.

710 Aceofwhat?  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:17:54pm

re: #707 ausador

updinged. it’s disgusting.

711 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:18:53pm

My copy of the LGF Cookbook arrived today!
The printing came out very nice.

712 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:19:30pm

re: #708 WindUpBird

mmm dopplebocks, that’s generally what the -ator means

He said he knew guys who ciuld drink a case of Bud and barely feel it. They couldn’t finish a 6 pack of Perminator.

713 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:22:28pm

re: #697 WindUpBird

I agree with that point, I just don’t believe it should be off limits to go to the guy’s house.

I love clever protests! I love culture jamming, information manipulation, flash mobs, and that stuff. I love a stunt that gets attention. I love the Merry Pranksters, I love Ken Kesey. That stunt where they threw dollar bills onto the floor of the NYSE. genius.

Yeah, it sure turned things around on Wall Street.

714 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:23:11pm

re: #705 pharmmajor

Ruckly? That you?

715 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:25:01pm

re: #713 ryannon

Yeah, it sure turned things around on Wall Street.

Point to Ryannon. Those sorts of protests are not really productive.

716 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:25:38pm

From Beer to Eternity

American brewing goes way back. Early Virginians enjoyed corn ale. George Washington preferred porter. And according to Brooklyn Brewery Brewmaster Garrett Oliver, Harvard’s first schoolmaster was “dismissed in disgrace for failing to supply the students with enough beer.”

Once the Revolutionary War started, drinking the royal supply didn’t sit well, so colonials brewed their own. By 1810 there were 140 U.S. breweries. Most crafted ales in the English and Dutch tradition. Then came the Germans. Over a million immigrants poured into the United States in the mid-19th century, bringing with them a taste for lager — a lighter, crisper aged style of beer that quickly caught on. As a result, independent breweries speckled post-Civil War America. Thousands of warehouses clamored with kettles of all sizes. These steaming vats of malted barley and aromatic hops were overseen mostly by ambitious young Germans. But for various reasons — wars, ill-fated prohibitions, a fellow named Busch — 100 years later, there were only 40 U.S. breweries left.

Now, as any moderately conscious bar-goer knows, American beer is back. According to the Brewers Association, as of 2009 there were nearly 1,600 native breweries: the highest total since before Prohibition. Nearly every state has its own craft brewers, complementing the big guys with varied styles, challenging flavors and less corporate restraint. To trace the convoluted path of our country’s beer legacy, here’s a whirlwind tour of American brewing, past to present, with plenty of pints along the way.

[snip]

717 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:26:07pm

re: #715 Dark_Falcon

Point to Ryannon. Those sorts of protests are not really productive.

But they were great fun for Abbie and Jerry. And that’s a lot of what it was all about.

718 Sionainn  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:26:36pm

re: #680 ausador

For those that still doubt what the “Evangelicals” are up to in Uganda here is a little investigative journalism that proves it. If you are at all interested you should try to make the time to watch it.

[Link: www.hulu.com…]

(once again made to feel ashamed to call myself Christian, and pissed about it) :(

I’m halfway through with watching this. It’s quite disturbing, but completely worthwhile to watch.

719 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:27:48pm

re: #716 NJDhockeyfan

From Beer to Eternity

Cheers to that. Stories of craft and achievement are great things to read.

720 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:28:07pm

re: #712 NJDhockeyfan

He said he knew guys who ciuld drink a case of Bud and barely feel it. They couldn’t finish a 6 pack of Perminator.

Bud is 5%, Some Doppelbocks are like 12%!

721 Linden Arden  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:28:51pm

SEIU - hotel maids and office building janitors….

Be afraid - very, very afraid!

722 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:28:51pm

bbl

723 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:29:20pm
724 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:29:50pm

re: #563 allegro

Do you think there’s any connection between the essential dismantling of unions since the 80s and the income disparity that has grown since, coincidentally, the 80s?

The disparity is a product of more than the existence of unions. Tax levels, inflation, even changes in regulations can influence real world take home pay. As good as unions are at increasing pay levels, they are just as subject to skilled employee availability and competition as non-union shops. We have a couple of unions, CLAC being one of them, that are about to supply skilled workers at lower wages to our construction industry. The contractors are going to walk away with more money in their pockets while the workers are going to have less.

Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t get rid of unions, but I think many companies, especially some of the smaller organizations realize that treating their employees well brings more money into the business. In western Canada, as long as the government doesn’t start pissing around, unions work well as deterrents. On the other hand, some are asking for more than the economy can bear.

Walmart is a bit of an exception because it has a virtual monopoly.

725 Ojoe  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:29:59pm

re: #478 ryannon

Why thank you.

BBL

726 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:30:08pm

BP Gulf Oil Spill update:

The Top Kill attempt is still scheduled for Tuesday. I believe they are going to try the mud injection first and keep the junk shot as a reserve plan. This could all go horribly wrong and the leak could be significantly increased with only the relief wells still a viable option.

Almost 10 million gallons of oily water have been recovered. About 715,000 gallons of dispersant have been applied, 85,000 gallons of that sub-sea.

Our thanks and prayers should go out to the men risking their lives to deal with this situation. This is combat duty

727 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:30:25pm

re: #717 ryannon

But they were great fun for Abbie and Jerry. And that’s a lot of what it was all about.

I share my father’s hatred for all the shit those two helped stir up in Chicago in 1968. I hadn’t been born yet, but my father has told me of how violent and filthy they made things. I’m glad that Daley the Elder dropped the hammer on them.

728 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:30:34pm

re: #715 Dark_Falcon

Point to Ryannon. Those sorts of protests are not really productive.

Well, when both parties are beholden to Wall Street, yes, hard to change things.

I’m glad someone’s trying though!

729 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:31:40pm

re: #719 Dark_Falcon

Cheers to that. Stories of craft and achievement are great things to read.

Alcoholic beverages are also part of a country’s culture. Once again, it’s clear that America has none. Nada. Zilch. Thank God for the Belgians and Poles and the Brits, of course.

/

730 Linden Arden  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:32:26pm

re: #729 ryannon

Alcoholic beverages are also part of a country’s culture. Once again, it’s clear that America has none. Nada. Zilch. Thank God for the Belgians and Poles and the Brits, of course.

/

Sour mash bourbon?

731 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:32:46pm

re: #723 Killgore Trout

Somewhere Alex Jones is very happy. Fox: At West Point, Obama Presses for New World Order to Defeat Al Qaeda

omg, that’s the actual headline at Fox.

732 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:33:10pm

re: #721 Linden Arden

SEIU - hotel maids and office building janitors…

Be afraid - very, very afraid!

Some members of that union have been violent, and it’s not been a force for good. Not a bogeyman, but a negative force nonetheless.

733 Linden Arden  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:33:35pm

re: #729 ryannon

I am slow with the slash //

My bad

734 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:34:20pm

re: #729 ryannon

Alcoholic beverages are also part of a country’s culture. Once again, it’s clear that America has none. Nada. Zilch. Thank God for the Belgians and Poles and the Brits, of course.

/

haha Belgians make some of the best beer on earth, man. ;-) Our culture is still used to Bud. Belgian culture has a FAR FAR more advanced palate for beer than we do on average. We have awesome craft beers, but in most of the country, macro swill rules the roost.

735 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:35:02pm

re: #728 WindUpBird

Well, when both parties are beholden to Wall Street, yes, hard to change things.

I’m glad someone’s trying though!

I’d rather have parties beholden to Wall Street rather than to leftist agitators.

736 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:35:21pm

re: #732 Dark_Falcon

Some members of that union have been violent, and it’s not been a force for good. Not a bogeyman, but a negative force nonetheless.

I’ll take the occasional negative force in a union with the positives that unions have achieved. They’re overall been a massive force for good.

737 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:35:54pm

re: #735 Dark_Falcon

I’d rather have parties beholden to Wall Street rather than to leftist agitators.

So you don’t like a 40 hour work week or child labor laws or workplace safety?

Unions!

738 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:36:10pm

re: #730 Linden Arden

Sour mash bourbon?

Disgustingly sweet crap, but distinctly American, still I suppose it counts.

739 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:37:56pm

re: #738 ausador

Disgustingly sweet crap, but distinctly American, still I suppose it counts.

yeah, i don’t do bourbon. I don’t really do hard liquor much at all.

I’m a student of the world when it comes to beer. Our craft breweries rock, Belgian abbey ales rock, German dopplebocks rock.

Beer is way WAY WAY WAY older than America. And we should recognize that.

740 Aceofwhat?  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:38:10pm

re: #734 WindUpBird

haha Belgians make some of the best beer on earth, man. ;-) Our culture is still used to Bud. Belgian culture has a FAR FAR more advanced palate for beer than we do on average. We have awesome craft beers, but in most of the country, macro swill rules the roost.

yep. stella artois = belgian budweiser. it’s table beer.

741 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:38:22pm

re: #697 WindUpBird

I agree with that point, I just don’t believe it should be off limits to go to the guy’s house.

I love clever protests! I love culture jamming, information manipulation, flash mobs, and that stuff. I love a stunt that gets attention. I love the Merry Pranksters, I love Ken Kesey. That stunt where they threw dollar bills onto the floor of the NYSE. genius.

Didja ever cover your entire body with glow in the dark paint and run up to someone’s house at night?
Now, that’s a stunt that would tickle me no end.

742 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:38:49pm

re: #731 Stanley Sea

omg, that’s the actual headline at Fox.

It also bears only faint resemblance to the actual content of the article. Poor decision by Fox, ruining a decent article with an overwrought headline.

743 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:38:58pm

re: #731 Stanley Sea

omg, that’s the actual headline at Fox.

It sure is. Check out the comments too.

744 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:39:54pm

re: #740 Aceofwhat?

yep. stella artois = belgian budweiser. it’s table beer.

I know. I ain’t talking about Stella.

I’m talking about Trappists. I’m talking about Piraat. I’m talking about Trippel Karmeliet.

You gotta go to very specific parts of America (like my town Portland, like Colorado, like Norcal) to find the good beer culture. In Belgium, it’s a lot easier to find good beer culture.

745 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:40:08pm

re: #742 Dark_Falcon

It also bears only faint resemblance to the actual content of the article. Poor decision by Fox, ruining a decent article with an overwrought headline.

It’s a dog whistle. Did you read any of the comments? Horrid.

746 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:40:18pm

re: #730 Linden Arden

Sour mash bourbon?

It was sarcasm, relative to an earlier discussion about the merits of American culture.

In Europe, one would be hard-pressed to find micro-brews of the inventiveness and quality of those being produced in the U.S. Same for garage wines (not to be confused with home-made plonk) and of course, our traditional whiskeys and bourbons.

747 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:40:47pm

re: #741 reine.de.tout

Didja ever cover your entire body with glow in the dark paint and run up to someone’s house at night?
Now, that’s a stunt that would tickle me no end.


I do have this light-up EL wire costume… *_*

748 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:41:28pm

re: #711 Killgore Trout

My copy of the LGF Cookbook arrived today!
The printing came out very nice.

Great!
I hope you enjoy it!

Be sure to show your Mom that Gardening Section - she will be proud (it’s what Moms do).

749 Linden Arden  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:41:46pm

re: #739 WindUpBird

I can see you know about beer than I do - but my favorite is Pilsner Urquell (sp?) reportedly brewed in the same Prague brewery since the 15th century.

750 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:41:46pm

re: #605 WindUpBird

The envrionment is unsafe because there are very dangerous clients being taken in by the origanization, clients too dangerous for the staff to handle, being cared for by half the staff they need, and even that half are undertrained and have not the resources. And whenever anyone complains about it, they’re intimidated or outright fired.

Abusive employer. They do still exist. In an environment where the number of skilled employees outnumbers the number of available positions, they are more likely to drop the facade and show their true intent. This place needs a union, or the threat of government regulations.

Your daughter is lucky. Where my friends work, been a lot of hard work to even get to the point where they can TRY to unionize.

The problem with her union at that particular care facility is the upper limit of wages has pretty much been reached but the union still threatens to strike. The management of the facility has had to increase fees to pay the employees to such a degree they are losing patients. This is self defeating.

751 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:42:05pm

re: #737 WindUpBird

So you don’t like a 40 hour work week or child labor laws or workplace safety?

Unions!

Please don’t misinterpret my words. I simply distrust the political left, far more than I do corporations. Too many on the left are desirous of great power for the government, and I distrust such ambitions. That does not mean I oppose all efforts at reform.

752 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:43:02pm

Neo Nazis organizing Republican events now….
Arizona immigration law rally loses group due to neo-Nazi links

The website for the “Phoenix Rising” Arizona Rally and Freedom March event scheduled for Wesley Bolin Plaza lists as “confirmed” speakers former Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, state Sen. and Senate Bill 1070 sponsor Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, and GOP Senate challenger J.D. Hayworth, although a spokesman said Hayworth won’t be participating.

The rally intends to show support for the statute, Gov. Jan Brewer and other Arizona lawmakers who supported the legislation.
….
But William Gheen, president of Americans for Legal Immigration Political Action Committee, or ALIPAC, is distancing his group from event organizer Daniel Smeriglio of Hazleton, Pa., over Facebook connections to White supremacists and a European neo-Nazi musical act.

We have worked diligently behind the scenes to try to resolve this situation with the knowledge that our political opposition does have strong evidence of neo-Nazi supporters being involved with the event still going forward on the 5th,” ALIPAC said Thursday in a written statement. “We feel it is completely unacceptable that Dan Smeriglio and Tom Tancredo or anyone else would put the brave activists, lawmakers, candidates, and citizens of Arizona at risk by proceeding with an event that our opponents can use to harm our cause of stopping and reversing illegal immigration.”

Only one group complained and the rally refused to exclude the neoNazis. Disgraceful.

753 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:43:05pm

re: #734 WindUpBird

haha Belgians make some of the best beer on earth, man. ;-) Our culture is still used to Bud. Belgian culture has a FAR FAR more advanced palate for beer than we do on average. We have awesome craft beers, but in most of the country, macro swill rules the roost.

It’s a sterile discussion. Needs some yeast and a little fermentation. You’re not a macro swill drinker, are you? Connect the dots and stop squirming. You don’t know how well-off you are.

754 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:43:31pm

re: #609 avanti

OK, you oil experts, I have a idea to seal the leak, but I’m probably missing something obvious. I use a pipe expander when working on auto exhaust systems. I can imagine a hydraulic expanding version of that with a pipe and open valve on one end to allow it to be inserted with the oil flowing through it so you don’t have to fight the pressure of the out flow.

Once inside, expand the cylinder to fit tightly against the pipe walls and close the valve.

Sounds good to me. But what the hell do I know.

755 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:43:49pm

re: #748 reine.de.tout

:)

756 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:43:52pm

re: #749 Linden Arden

I can see you know about beer than I do - but my favorite is Pilsner Urquell (sp?) reportedly brewed in the same Prague brewery since the 15th century.

I like it, but I’m not really a pilsener guy, I’m a deep dark bock/abbey/IPA/heavy ale guy :D

757 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:44:14pm

re: #739 WindUpBird

yeah, i don’t do bourbon. I don’t really do hard liquor much at all.

I’m a student of the world when it comes to beer. Our craft breweries rock, Belgian abbey ales rock, German dopplebocks rock.

Beer is way WAY WAY WAY older than America. And we should recognize that.

I recognize that beer is way WAY WAY WAY older than America.

Now what?

758 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:44:24pm

re: #743 Killgore Trout

It sure is. Check out the comments too.

This one is especially bad:

aggie7

Texas

THIS IS PLAYING RIGHT INTO SATANS WORLD!!!! “NEW WORLD oRDER” (does George Orwell 1984 ring a bell), We know now for sure Obama is trying to destroy America and all her Christians like a sneaky panther in the night he will leap upon us and rip our throats out before we have a chance to speak out….No More Talk
Saturday, May 22, 2010 at 6:37 PM

Full Mental Wingnut.

759 Aceofwhat?  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:44:27pm

re: #744 WindUpBird

I know. I ain’t talking about Stella.

I’m talking about Trappists. I’m talking about Piraat. I’m talking about Trippel Karmeliet.

You gotta go to very specific parts of America (like my town Portland, like Colorado, like Norcal) to find the good beer culture. In Belgium, it’s a lot easier to find good beer culture.

no question, that’s the good stuff. it’s just funny that what is exotic beer on tap at most US joints is the working man’s beer in Belgium. lofty standards…

760 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:45:20pm

re: #744 WindUpBird

I know. I ain’t talking about Stella.

I’m talking about Trappists. I’m talking about Piraat. I’m talking about Trippel Karmeliet.

You gotta go to very specific parts of America (like my town Portland, like Colorado, like Norcal) to find the good beer culture. In Belgium, it’s a lot easier to find good beer culture.

It’s easier because Belgium is about the size of the city of Portland.

761 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:45:20pm

re: #751 Dark_Falcon

Please don’t misinterpret my words. I simply distrust the political left, far more than I do corporations. Too many on the left are desirous of great power for the government, and I distrust such ambitions. That does not mean I oppose all efforts at reform.

Mainstream left?

Or like, far left?

I’m “left” and I just want a level playing field and corporations to play by rules.

762 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:45:41pm

re: #760 ryannon

It’s easier because Belgium is about the size of the city of Portland.

that is true! Point taken!

(and now I’m off to go drink, whee)

763 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:46:02pm

re: #752 Killgore Trout

Neo Nazis organizing Republican events now…
Arizona immigration law rally loses group due to neo-Nazi links

Only one group complained and the rally refused to exclude the neoNazis. Disgraceful.

But a respectful tip of the hat to Mr. Gheen for doing the right thing.

764 Aceofwhat?  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:46:14pm

re: #750 b_sharp

well said

765 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:47:50pm

re: #632 TheMatrix31

Damn, I didn’t know every tea partier advocated this.

Goal post mover. :(

766 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:49:18pm

re: #737 WindUpBird

So you don’t like a 40 hour work week or child labor laws or workplace safety?

Unions!

Unions are bad Mmmkay? All members are communists, all leaders are corrupt fifth columnists making fortunes while selling the country out.

The very idea of individual employees electing Representatives to negotiate with the management about their working conditions is completely un-American! (don’t ask me how, I have no fuckin clue, but all the rightwingers say it’s true)

The history of unions in this country over most of the last thirty years has been nothing but corruption trials, FBI investigations, and Mafia killings and blowback. The Unions destroyed themselves, their credibility has gone down much faster than…err…congresses even! :p

767 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:49:32pm

re: #761 WindUpBird

Mainstream left?

Or like, far left?

I’m “left” and I just want a level playing field and corporations to play by rules.

It depends on what those rules are. In your case, we’d simply discuss the specific rules and attempt to forge a compromise. The problem the mainstream left runs into is that it gets pulled into bad positions at times by the far left (the right has this problem as well, and has it worse at the present time).

768 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:50:07pm

re: #642 Macha

I heartily disagree. I feel most employers would cut every corner possible to increase their profit. Safety first comes to mind. Just think about how many rules have needed to be put in place because of businesses placing employees in unsafe situations. What comes easily to mind is the most recent coal mine disaster. And think of the airlines that habitually required pilots to fly long hours past the point that it is safe to do so. I could name hundreds of examples and most people here could also. Where money is involved, exploitation of the employee has been and is alive and well.

I never advocated dissolving all unions. I never would.

769 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:50:36pm

re: #766 ausador

Unions are bad Mmmkay? All members are communists, all leaders are corrupt fifth columnists making fortunes while selling the country out.

The very idea of individual employees electing Representatives to negotiate with the management about their working conditions is completely un-American! (don’t ask me how, I have no fuckin clue, but all the rightwingers say it’s true)

The history of unions in this country over most of the last thirty years has been nothing but corruption trials, FBI investigations, and Mafia killings and blowback. The Unions destroyed themselves, their credibility has gone down much faster than…err…congresses even! :p

Thanks, Mr. Macky, Mmmkay!

770 Aceofwhat?  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:51:08pm

re: #749 Linden Arden

I can see you know about beer than I do - but my favorite is Pilsner Urquell (sp?) reportedly brewed in the same Prague brewery since the 15th century.

You should try a Saison beer if you’re ever somewhere esoteric enough to carry it. It’s relatively low-alcohol - a great summer beer with an interesting past. It’s a style akin to what they brewed on the farms centuries ago for the workers.

771 wrenchwench  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:54:16pm

re: #763 Dark_Falcon

But a respectful tip of the hat to Mr. Gheen for doing the right thing.

He’s only doing it because he recognizes the damage to his cause that will result. He doesn’t deserve your respect. He’s the one who accused Lindsey Graham of being gay.

772 bratwurst  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:55:12pm

Um, as someone who re: #749 Linden Arden

I can see you know about beer than I do - but my favorite is Pilsner Urquell (sp?) reportedly brewed in the same Prague brewery since the 15th century.

It is actually brewed in the town of Plzeň (west of Prague) and only since about 1842. Definitely a solid beer, but only about average for the Czech Republic really. A trip to the country is a must for beer lovers…I spent 3 drunken years there myself.

773 wrenchwench  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:56:03pm

re: #752 Killgore Trout

Neo Nazis organizing Republican events now…
Arizona immigration law rally loses group due to neo-Nazi links

Only one group complained and the rally refused to exclude the neoNazis. Disgraceful.

Tancredo’s digging down deeper.

“The allegations against one of the rally’s organizers, Daniel Smeriglio, have been examined and are not only without merit, they are the worst kind of character assassination that no decent person in politics, left, right or center, should condone,” Tancredo said in the statement.
774 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:57:06pm

re: #771 wrenchwench

He’s only doing it because he recognizes the damage to his cause that will result. He doesn’t deserve your respect. He’s the one who accused Lindsey Graham of being gay.

That I did not know. Hat tip withdrawn.

775 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:58:54pm

re: #763 Dark_Falcon

But a respectful tip of the hat to Mr. Gheen for doing the right thing.

Gheen’s a dirtbag racialist and doesn’t deserve kudos unless you want to credit him for being intelligent enough to recognize that some were stating the real message and direction just a touch too clearly.

Meet the Nativists:

[Link: www.splcenter.org…]

776 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 4:59:29pm

Friday Night Blue Collar Brew Review -
Tyranena Scurvy India Pale Ale

I have really hoped for the IPA style of beer and my tongue to get along. But the mere mention of orange in the same sentence with the word IPA had me thinking once again, that I was all wrong about my original thoughts on IPAs, most likely due to my own inexperience. And that Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale. But that’s now just a bad memory that comes back each time I eye an IPA on the shelf.

The beer poured into the glass filling it with a rather pale orange hue with a hint of red. Tons of different sized bubbles raced to the top which was blanketed in about a half-inch of off-white foam. The aroma was that of a light grapefruity essence with a smile on its face.

The first sip was a real sock in the chops. Nice darkish malts blended with an overall grapefruit flavor, finally finishing a whip crack of hoppiness on the way down. This beer should mellow out nicely as we go along.

There’s a distinct bitterness at the end, but during the initial sips, I had to look for it. The liquid itself was neither thin nor thick, but of ample viscosity to let the tongue know that there was a good body in each sip and each sip left a nice foamy lace on the inside of the glass.

As the sips drove on, the front became more pronounced with a nice sweet taste, perhaps to say hello to all the mouth parts. The middle had the malty richness which lent a lot of husky character to the beer.

The end of the sip was the slapshot, the twang, the fruity manifestation, the southern accent which said, “How y’all are?” reminiscent of Justin Wilson and not at all like “ ‘Ow be ye his fine brath of a day? Arr.” ala John Newton’s Long John Silver.

By the bottom of the second glass I became fully aware of the seasonality of this drink. The grapefruity overtones of this beer coupled with the heavenly malts made a perfect blend for the hot weather we’re sure to experience soon. The nice sweetness that seems to last in the mouth between sips is a pure treat.

777 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:00:58pm

re: #735 Dark_Falcon

I’d rather have parties beholden to Wall Street rather than to leftist agitators.

Luckily, that’s a false dichotomy.

778 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:01:49pm

re: #680 ausador

For those that still doubt what the “Evangelicals” are up to in Uganda here is a little investigative journalism that proves it. If you are at all interested you should try to make the time to watch it.

[Link: www.hulu.com…]

(once again made to feel ashamed to call myself Christian, and pissed about it) :(

Humans aren’t a monolithic group. We are noisy chimps who tend to play follow the leader a lot and gravitate to groups that typify what we believe that leader is telling us. Christians range from truly honest, helpful people to complete crazy asshats, so there is bound to be some that will embarrass you. Don’t let it get to you. Do do what you can to minimize their nonsense.

Just my humble opinion.

779 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:02:36pm

re: #682 Aceofwhat?

hey all.

nice talk about the protests…i have nothing to add.

i’ve returned from the battlefield; the Babolat sang her beautiful, terrible song of fury and destruction.

now clean and drinking a protein shake, watching Return of the Jedi with my son.

life is good.

Hey Ace.

780 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:02:52pm

re: #773 wrenchwench

It seems there’s more to the story…..
ALIPAC Withdraws From AZ Rallies Over Nazi Groups & Tom Tancredo


….we picked up a release by a smaller illegal alien supporting group called One People’s Project. The group was attacking Dan Smeriglio claiming he was working with skin heads and Nazis and attacking ALIPAC for associating with Smeriglio.

The illegal alien and amnesty supporting activists and groups constantly play the race card and twist information in a way that is false and designed to try to throw mud on anyone who stands up and speaks out against illegal immigration.

However, we reviewed the video and computer screen shots that our opposition possesses regarding Dan Smeriglio and discovered that they are correct.

The video and screen shots of Dan Smeriglio’s Facebook account indicates that he has willingly been working with members or racist skin head groups long after he knew their identities and politics. In fact, Dan’s Facebook profile, which remains his main way of broadcasting a rally for June 5, promoted one of Europe’s most popular neo-Nazi rock groups until a few days ago.

TO REVIEW THE VIDEOS, SCREEN SHOTS, AND EVIDENCE SHOWING DAN SMERIGLIO ASSOCIATING WITH SKIN HEADS AND NEO-NAZI ROCK GROUPS CLICK HERE.
[Link: www.alipac.us…]

781 pingjockey  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:03:27pm

It’s all irrelevant any way. History channel has a bunch of people that say the aliens did all this civilization stuff and when they come back all will be well. It must be true, it’s on the History Channel!
BTW….Yaaaay Beer!

782 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:03:56pm

re: #617 Bagua

Of course Obdicut, it is a given that you will always deny, distract, claim cluelessness and condemn. I care not what you say. I ignore you unless you address me as there is no benefit in engaging someone as stubborn as you.

Oh hey, I missed this.

None of this is true, and you should stop making personal attacks on me, because it’s about as stupid as protesting at the BOA guy’s house, and less effective.

783 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:05:40pm

re: #711 Killgore Trout

My copy of the LGF Cookbook arrived today!
The printing came out very nice.

Mine came on Friday. The wife is tickled pink… well red.

784 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:06:09pm

re: #776 Racer X

I love that guy’s beer reviews. Man I wish I could put words to paper like that. Oh, and the eye candy there is nice too.

785 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:06:28pm

re: #782 Obdicut

Oh hey, I missed this.

None of this is true, and you should stop making personal attacks on me, because it’s about as stupid as protesting at the BOA guy’s house, and less effective.

Oh hey, Obdicut, stop making personal attacks on me and then whining when I reply.

786 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:07:22pm

re: #783 b_sharp

Juante’s illustration for “Sides” still cracks me up.

787 wrenchwench  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:07:57pm

re: #780 Killgore Trout

It seems there’s more to the story…
ALIPAC Withdraws From AZ Rallies Over Nazi Groups & Tom Tancredo

TO REVIEW THE VIDEOS, SCREEN SHOTS, AND EVIDENCE SHOWING DAN SMERIGLIO ASSOCIATING WITH SKIN HEADS AND NEO-NAZI ROCK GROUPS CLICK HERE.
[Link: www.alipac.us…]

Yeah. I didn’t look at Gheen’s proof (too many .pdfs and videos) but if HE says Smerglio is too icky to protest with, Tancredo is sticking his neck out in calling it a smear.

788 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:08:43pm

re: #780 Killgore Trout

The Key thing to note is that they were fine with the slime ball until he got outted.

789 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:10:50pm

re: #785 Bagua

Oh hey, Obdicut, stop making personal attacks on me and then whining when I reply.

Have it your way, then. Your portrayal of me is false, and everyone here knows it. I don’t know why you write things like that. It’s not going to change anyone else’s mind about me, and since you’ve already called me a Marxist, a tool of the Palestinian National Authority, and said I should be banned, it’s not like I don’t know that you don’t like me.

In other news, dishes are done, but headache persists. Time for a nap.

790 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:11:08pm

You want to know what’s lame? I just realized that the “tails” side of a penny has changed. dang.

[Link: 2010lincolncents.com…]

791 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:13:03pm

re: #789 Obdicut

Have it your way, then. Your portrayal of me is false, and everyone here knows it. I don’t know why you write things like that. It’s not going to change anyone else’s mind about me, and since you’ve already called me a Marxist, a tool of the Palestinian National Authority, and said I should be banned, it’s not like I don’t know that you don’t like me.

In other news, dishes are done, but headache persists. Time for a nap.

Nonsense Obdicut, drop the hostility, or ignore me if you don’t like me.

792 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:13:55pm

re: #790 Stanley Sea

You want to know what’s lame? I just realized that the “tails” side of a penny has changed. dang.

[Link: 2010lincolncents.com…]

Can we just killed the penny? Each one costs us 2 cents to make.

793 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:14:19pm

re: #776 Racer X

Friday Night Blue Collar Brew Review -
Tyranena Scurvy India Pale Ale

I love your brew review. Keep’em coming.

794 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:14:59pm

re: #790 Stanley Sea

You want to know what’s lame? I just realized that the “tails” side of a penny has changed. dang.

[Link: 2010lincolncents.com…]

It’s a plot! It’s not reallllll money! It’s part of an insidious new world order…..

// Whirled Nuts Daily emulator mode OFF

795 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:15:28pm

re: #782 Obdicut

Oh hey, I missed this.

None of this is true, and you should stop making personal attacks on me, because it’s about as stupid as protesting at the BOA guy’s house, and less effective.

A grain of salt.

796 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:18:36pm

re: #793 b_sharp

I love your brew review. Keep’em coming.

Frank at Sixpacktech writes those. I really enjoy his writing style. And his beer reviews!

797 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:18:41pm

re: #786 Killgore Trout

Juante’s illustration for “Sides” still cracks me up.

Juante’s artwork is fantastic.

Can we sell one book right now? Anyone here who hasn’t purchased it?

798 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:22:06pm

re: #790 Stanley Sea

You want to know what’s lame? I just realized that the “tails” side of a penny has changed. dang.

[Link: 2010lincolncents.com…]

At least they haven’t put Bugs Bunny on it yet.

799 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:22:44pm

re: #796 Racer X

Frank at Sixpacktech writes those. I really enjoy his writing style. And his beer reviews!

But you post them.

800 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:22:46pm

re: #788 Thanos

The Key thing to note is that they were fine with the slime ball until he got outted.

Not really. Part of the objection revolves around Steve Smith who is still a member of Voice of The People USA even after all this dust up.
Steve Smith is appearently a skinhead….
Keystone State Skinheads Interview WYOU

The video isn’t good enough to tell but I think he has a Nazi German eagle logo on his shirt during the interview.

801 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:23:25pm

re: #797 Stanley Sea

Juante’s artwork is fantastic.

Can we sell one book right now? Anyone here who hasn’t purchased it?

I’ll be grabbing one for my daughter (as soon as she coughs up the money).

802 Racer X  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:24:54pm
803 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:24:57pm

re: #801 b_sharp

I’ll be grabbing one for my daughter (as soon as she coughs up the money).

Actually, I’m going to buy the first one. Don’t know why I didn’t at the same time, but oh well. Very very reasonable for what you get.

804 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:25:52pm

re: #488 lostlakehiker

Union (- -four blanks- -).

Hint…there’s a g in the answer.

Not to excuse any sort of tea-party abuse of civility, but SEIU “protests” and “demonstrations” at a banker’s home are neither. They are threats. The implicit message is this:

Look. We have mobs at our disposal. Who knows what might happen? When next our representative calls at your bank and asks for the danegeld relief for our members who are faced with foreclosure, you will see the wisdom of a positive response.

Gee.

And what’s the message when the teabaggers show up in Washington and elsewhere with guns?

805 Four More Tears  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:27:43pm

re: #804 Cato the Elder

Gee.

And what’s the message when the teabaggers show up in Washington and elsewhere with guns?

It’s huntin’ season?

806 Randall Gross  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:31:59pm

Craig Venter unveils “synthetic life”
Craig Venter and team make a historic announcement: they’ve created the first fully functioning, reproducing cell controlled by synthetic DNA. He explains how they did it and why the achievement marks the beginning of a new era for science.


807 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:33:24pm

re: #797 Stanley Sea

Juante’s artwork is fantastic.

Can we sell one book right now? Anyone here who hasn’t purchased it?

If you needle enough we might be able to get a sale our two.
Can we sell a cookbook tonight? Anyone wanna step up?

808 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:36:21pm

re: #805 JasonA

It’s huntin’ season?

Be wery, wery, quiet. We’re hunting Liberals. Huh, huh, huh. huh!

809 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:36:31pm

OK, there’s a recipe in there for breaded brussels sprouts that I made. Unbelievable.

810 wrenchwench  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:38:52pm

I’ll order my cookbook next week. I promise.

Later, lizards.

811 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:40:22pm

re: #807 Killgore Trout

Well, mine was taking a LOONG time to arrive, so I just checked.
Oops, forgot to buy it.
BBIAM

812 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:41:19pm

re: #811 Floral Giraffe

Well, mine was taking a LOONG time to arrive, so I just checked.
Oops, forgot to buy it.
BBIAM

Oh lol! Mine came so quick, and us being in the same area, I couldn’t believe yours was taking so long.

It’s not the shipping, it’s the ordering!

813 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:44:30pm

re: #811 Floral Giraffe

re: #812 Stanley Sea

Cool!

814 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:49:58pm

Killgore, gardening question (and I didn’t look in the cookbook first, so don’t be mad!)

We have a lot of rabbits. We are trying hard to plant a garden. So far it’s safe because it’s in cinder block planters. So far… We also planted morning glories around the perimeter of the yard. Bunnies are a-munching. They are almost decimated. What do you suggest?

815 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:51:28pm
816 Nimed  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:51:45pm

re: #56 re: #65 Cato the Elder

Excessive patriotism always leads to brain-cell death.

If these people had been born in Pakistan, they would now be supporting the Taliban.

Cato the Elder

“Rugged individualist”: a libertarian in a toupee.

Quoted for truth, concision and humor.

Libertarian Glenn Reynolds gains the price of best specimen of this sort of rugged individualism.

Image: glennreynolds.jpg

Just look at that! His natural hair (I presume) looks like a toupee. Magnificent!

817 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:51:45pm

re: #814 Stanley Sea

Killgore, gardening question (and I didn’t look in the cookbook first, so don’t be mad!)

We have a lot of rabbits. We are trying hard to plant a garden. So far it’s safe because it’s in cinder block planters. So far… We also planted morning glories around the perimeter of the yard. Bunnies are a-munching. They are almost decimated. What do you suggest?

Perhaps a cat is in order. They kill rabbits.

818 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:53:28pm

re: #815 Bagua

Image: 720_wood_20ga_lg.jpg

Dude, one is marinating as we speak. I think I had a conversation with it the other morning, so I am sad.

819 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:55:03pm

re: #818 Stanley Sea

Dude, one is marinating as we speak. I think I had a conversation with it the other morning, so I am sad.

Nothing more wholesome than a garden fed rabbit, it’s like a free range chicken. Delicious.

820 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:55:27pm

re: #815 Bagua

Image: 720_wood_20ga_lg.jpg

Nice. Italian craftsmanship its finest.

821 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:56:27pm

re: #819 Bagua

Nothing more wholesome than a garden fed rabbit, it’s like a free range chicken. Delicious.

We’ll see. It was a baby. (not really, but to me….)

822 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 5:59:14pm

re: #814 Stanley Sea

Killgore, gardening question (and I didn’t look in the cookbook first, so don’t be mad!)

We have a lot of rabbits. We are trying hard to plant a garden. So far it’s safe because it’s in cinder block planters. So far… We also planted morning glories around the perimeter of the yard. Bunnies are a-munching. They are almost decimated. What do you suggest?

Rabbit stew.

823 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:04:29pm

All the defenders of little bunnies are strangely silent tonight. Is there a convention or something?

824 albusteve  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:05:12pm

re: #820 Dark_Falcon

Nice. Italian craftsmanship its finest.

my Stoeger, a Benelli spinoff, was made in Turkey to Benelli specs…a very decent gun at a couple a hundred less

825 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:05:23pm

re: #814 Stanley Sea

Killgore, gardening question (and I didn’t look in the cookbook first, so don’t be mad!)

We have a lot of rabbits. We are trying hard to plant a garden. So far it’s safe because it’s in cinder block planters. So far… We also planted morning glories around the perimeter of the yard. Bunnies are a-munching. They are almost decimated. What do you suggest?

I’m having really good luck with my Contech Electronics CRO101 Scarecrow Motion-Activated Sprinkler. Runs off a 9 volt battery and has a field of view of about 45 degrees and a distance of maybe 40-60 feet. It might help you out. Especially at night and early morning when the critters are most active. The rabbits are skittish enough that it might work.

826 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:05:58pm

re: #823 Bagua

All the defenders of little bunnies are strangely silent tonight. Is there a convention or something?

It’s only me! After I taste it, I’ll let you know if my feelings have changed.

Morning glories, eh. My tomatoes? Rabbit stew.

827 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:06:41pm

re: #825 Killgore Trout

I’m having really good luck with my Contech Electronics CRO101 Scarecrow Motion-Activated Sprinkler. Runs off a 9 volt battery and has a field of view of about 45 degrees and a distance of maybe 40-60 feet. It might help you out. Especially at night and early morning when the critters are most active. The rabbits are skittish enough that it might work.

THANK YOU! Will check it out.

828 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:06:49pm

re: #822 b_sharp

Rabbit stew.

Yes, he could also manage them as a food source. Cull the warren enough so they aren’t a devastating pest but keep them around for free protein.

829 albusteve  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:08:55pm

re: #826 Stanley Sea

It’s only me! After I taste it, I’ll let you know if my feelings have changed.

Morning glories, eh. My tomatoes? Rabbit stew.

I never liked any rabbit I’ve eaten….blech, they are varmint imo

830 Bagua  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:13:23pm

re: #829 albusteve

I never liked any rabbit I’ve eaten…blech, they are varmint imo

Shouldn’t put you off shooting them.

831 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:13:29pm

Annoying people in Texas annoy me.

I just sent the following email to my state representative:

Representative Parisi,

Given the recent assault on standards by the Texas State Board of Education, is it possible to follow the lead of the state of California and pass legislation banning the purchase or use of any textbooks that are certified to meet these ideologically based standards? Any such book is incompatible with a real education anyway, but we need to avoid wasting money on these textbooks at all cost.

As a Wisconsin resident, I’m especially appalled by the historical (hysterical?) revisionism regarding former Senator Joseph McCarthy, though in many ways that’s the least of the issues.

Sincerely,

William

832 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:20:39pm

re: #829 albusteve

I never liked any rabbit I’ve eaten…blech, they are varmint imo

I will let you know. Had rabbit when I was a kid, don’t remember. It’s marinating now, ready for the grill. ugh.

833 Failing Eye Sight  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:22:40pm

re: #832 Stanley Sea

I will let you know. Had rabbit when I was a kid, don’t remember. It’s marinating now, ready for the grill. ugh.

Weep while you eat.

834 Stanley Sea  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:26:35pm

re: #833 b_sharp

Weep while you eat.

Stop!!!

835 deadletterboy  Sat, May 22, 2010 6:57:45pm

It’s sort of amazing how much power PZ Myers and Pharyngula have to absolutely destroy idiotic polls. I love it.

836 ryannon  Sat, May 22, 2010 7:41:47pm

re: #834 Stanley Sea

Stop!!!


Poor wittle wabbit….poor wittle wabbit

837 swamprat  Sat, May 22, 2010 7:50:55pm

Hey gang!
Want to have some fun?
Go through this thread and see how many “tu quoque”s you can find!

838 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 22, 2010 8:44:34pm

re: #804 Cato the Elder

Gee.

And what’s the message when the teabaggers show up in Washington and elsewhere with guns?

Guns don’t belong at demonstrations. Demonstrations are inherently on the edge of violence and any little thing can spark them into riots. The police reaction to a demonstration at which some of the participants are (albeit peacefully) breaking the law can become a police riot. If there had been guns at the demonstration where this happened, instead of the broken bones, eyes put out, and assorted mayhem that did occur, with casualties to police, lawbreakers, other demonstrators, and random civilians who stepped out the door into tear gas and clubbings, there would likely have been fatalities.

Bringing a gun to a demonstration is at best uncivil. It’s inherently threatening, particularly to the law officers who must escort the procession and try to see that things stay orderly.

We mean business. Don’t get in our way or something could happen, you never know what.


I hope you weren’t trying to suggest that I’d excuse the stunt.

839 I Love Bush  Sat, May 22, 2010 11:09:13pm

Does this mean the Ted Kennedy Drivers Ed program will be cut?

840 tats66  Sat, May 22, 2010 11:48:41pm

Does anyone have or have a link that has the exact content of these new textbooks? Id like to see if all the uproar is founded in my opinion before I pass judgement on the issue. Thanks!

841 Roadkiller  Sun, May 23, 2010 5:39:53pm

If one actually reads the standards approved by the School Board authorities, there is very little if anything controversial, and certainly nothing approaching the characterizations presented by mainstream journalists - who don’t quite get around to quoting the actual text.

This is, for the most part, a lot of media - and new media - hype.

For Charles: Three more recommended tags for this post:

“Liberal Media Bias,” “Failure to Read the Source Documents,” and “I like the spin of this article so I’m going to post it”

842 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 23, 2010 6:17:05pm

re: #841 Roadkiller

I was wondering how long it would take for the apologists to show up.

If you want to put deceptive tags on a post about this subject, start your own blog.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 71 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 days ago
Views: 169 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1