Rand Paul: We Wouldn’t Need Laws If Everyone Were Christian

Politics • Views: 7,693

At ReligionDispatches, Sarah Posner has some more data on Rand Paul’s crackpot brand of libertarianism, which is inexplicably mixed with fundamentalist Christianity: Rand Paul: We Wouldn’t Need Laws If Everyone Were Christian.

Appearing on The Brody File, Rand Paul, who believes that portions of the 1964 Civil Rights Act need “further discussion” and may violate private business owners’ First Amendment rights, said that we wouldn’t really need laws in this country if everyone were a good Christian:

I’m a Christian. We go to the Presbyterian Church. My wife’s a Deacon there and we’ve gone there ever since we came to town. I see that Christianity and values is the basis of our society… . 98% of us won’t murder people, won’t steal, won’t break the law and it helps a society to have that religious underpinning. You still need to have the laws but I think it helps to have a people who believe in law and order and who have a moral compass or a moral basis for their day to day life.

Although Paul attends a mainline Protestant church, in his comments one might hear an echo of Christian Reconstructionism. RD contributor Julie Ingersoll, an expert on Christian Reconstructionism, once described it to me this way: “Reconstructionists claim to have an entirely integrated, logically defensible Christian worldview. Reconstructionism addresses everything you have to think about.” In other words, as a society we should follow (preferable) biblical law, and dispense with all but a small handful of civil laws.

The younger Paul may not be an ardent Christian Reconstructionist — he may not even realize its influence on his views — but his father, Congressman Ron Paul, used to employ one of Christian Reconstrutionism’s leading thinkers, Gary North, on his staff. North is the son-in-law of the founder of Christian Reconstructionism, R.J. Rushdoony.

Howard Phillips, the former Nixon administration official who founded the Conservative Caucus and Constitution Party (formerly the U.S. Taxpayers Party) and co-founded the powerful Council for National Policy, claims Rushdoony as his mentor. Phillips once observed, “Much of the energy in the home school movement, the Christian school movement, the right-to-life movement, and in the return of Christians to the political world, is directly traceable to Dr. Rushdoony’s work.” James Dobson, who offered a last-minute endorsement of Paul, had voted for Phillips in 1996 as “protest vote” against the GOP. Ron Paul spoke at the Constitution Party’s fundraiser in 2009, as did John Birch Society president John McManus.

The John Birch Society, R. J. Rushdoony, Gary North (who’s on record advocating the death penalty for homosexuals, atheists, blasphemers, and women who have abortions), the Constitution Party — the nomination of Rand Paul is a perfect storm of far right bad craziness, several streams of theocratic atavistic weirdness all coming together at this moment in US politics.

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574 comments
1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:50:40am

1. Well, yes, if everyone did their best to treat others as they would wish to be treated, we wouldn't need laws, I suppose.

2. As long as there is one sociopath, we need the laws.

1b. Wouldn't it be nice if Christians in this country worked a little harder on the golden rule?

2 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:51:36am

Keep on digging.

3 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:51:54am

Where did he get the notion that Christians are perfect?

4 Daniel Ballard  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:52:09am

All hail the new world order-The Liber-Taliban party.

5 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:52:15am

I'm a Christian...Not a SAINT!!
..I need laws!!

6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:53:37am

Two words:

Phelps Cult.

7 Daniel Ballard  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:54:04am

re: #4 Rightwingconspirator

All hail the new world order-The Liber-Taliban party.

PIMF

/// Need I?

8 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:54:52am

re: #1 EmmmieG

1. Well, yes, if everyone did their best to treat others as they would wish to be treated, we wouldn't need laws, I suppose.

2. As long as there is one sociopath, we need the laws.

1b. Wouldn't it be nice if Christians in this country worked a little harder on the golden rule?

I thought we were pretty much currently operating under the "whoever has the gold makes/bends the rules" meme as it was.

9 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:55:26am
the nomination of Rand Paul is a perfect storm of far right bad craziness, several streams of theocratic atavistic weirdness all coming together at this moment in US politics.

Yep, and the far right's chief mover, shaker, and enabler, Dick Armey, thinks it is a winning combination. This is scary in and of itself, since Armey is evil but not stupid.

10 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:56:02am

re: #9 Shiplord Kirel

Yep, and the far right's chief mover, shaker, and enabler, Dick Armey, thinks it is a winning combination. This is scary in and of itself, since Armey is evil but not stupid.

And evil will always win because good is dumb...

11 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:56:26am

Even Christ said that we need laws.

12 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:56:37am

If we were all Lizards, we wouldn't need laws.
/We police ourselves.:)

13 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:56:44am

re: #10 oaktree

And evil will always win because good is dumb...

Not true.

14 Varek Raith  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:57:08am

LOLOLOLOLOL.
His handlers really need to tell Rand to kindly STFU.

15 Stanghazi  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:57:16am

Stormfront!

Apparently on March 18th, Stormfront's Don Black tweeted Papa Doc's fundraising request for Baby Doc.

Tweet from Stormfront

16 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:57:28am

re: #10 oaktree

And evil will always win because good is dumb...

Excuse me??

17 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:58:09am

re: #11 MandyManners

There you go having to bring in that pesky Jesus Fellow. We all know that the books that matter are all in the old testament.

//

18 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:59:15am

re: #16 reloadingisnotahobby

Mangled quote from Spaceballs.

19 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:59:15am

I have an idea that Rand Paul doesn't understand human nature and has an over-reliance on rational thought.

20 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:59:19am

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth

Two words:

Phelps Cult.

Six words:

Christ said not to throw rocks.

21 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:59:36am

re: #17 Dreggas

Huh?

22 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, May 24, 2010 11:59:56am

re: #18 Dreggas

Mangled quote from Spaceballs.

Thanks!

23 webevintage  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:00:01pm

How do you respond to something that is so profoundly moronic as this?
When a person is willing to so totally ignore history and human nature and make ridiculous statements that boil down to "my way would work if everyone loved baby Jesus enough" then all I can think of is STFU.

24 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:00:13pm

re: #20 EmmmieG

Six words:

Christ said not to throw rocks.

Unless you have no sin.

25 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:00:27pm

but wasn't it God that said we needed laws in the first place?

26 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:00:41pm

re: #13 MandyManners

re: #16 reloadingisnotahobby

Spaceballs.

27 Varek Raith  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:00:57pm

Dark Helmet: So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

28 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:01:12pm

re: #21 MandyManners

You say that even Christ said we need laws. To these people Christ is a nuissance (to the religious right he's always been a nuissance) they prefer vengeful/wrathfull got (aka Rambo Jesus) to the one in the new testament.

29 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:01:18pm

re: #24 MandyManners

Unless you have no sin.

But if you have no sin, then throw rocks, isn't that a sin?

30 webevintage  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:01:44pm

re: #25 brookly red

but wasn't it God that said we needed laws in the first place?

What?
You missed him mumbling under his breath "except for those Christians in the future, they will be cool"......
/

31 Nimed  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:01:52pm

re: #25 brookly red

but wasn't it God that said we needed laws in the first place?

No, that was Hammurabi. :p

32 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:02:00pm

re: #20 EmmmieG

So far, the Phelps have managed not throw rocks. At least as far as I know.

33 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:02:09pm

re: #27 Varek Raith

Dark Helmet: So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

Apologies for messing up the quote. :(

Need to hurry less and check more.

34 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:02:20pm

odd then, that the most non-believing nation on earth (Sweden) has some of the lowest crime rates on the planet.

35 pharmmajor  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:02:33pm

Statements like this demonstrate that Rand Paul has no idea about what Libertarianism stands for. (Separation of church and state. Look it up, Rand.)

36 Olsonist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:03:11pm

re: #20 EmmmieG

Six words:

Christ said not to throw rocks.

He added some weasel words if I recall correctly.

37 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:03:30pm

re: #34 SpaceJesus

odd then, that the most non-believing nation on earth (Sweden) has some of the lowest crime rates on the planet.

Ya, but they're fucked when you bring the Tribulation.
/

38 Varek Raith  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:03:41pm

re: #35 pharmmajor

Statements like this demonstrate that Rand Paul has no idea about what Libertarianism stands for. (Separation of church and state. Look it up, Rand.)

Neither did Barr, and he was the freaking '08 candidate for the Libertarian party!

39 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:04:10pm

re: #34 SpaceJesus

odd then, that the most non-believing nation on earth (Sweden) has some of the lowest crime rates on the planet.

well if you consider suicide to be a crime then the numbers change.

40 ShaunP  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:04:38pm

"...98% of us won’t murder people, won’t steal, won’t break the law and it helps a society to have that religious underpinning."


[Link: bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov...]

41 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:04:39pm

re: #37 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ya, but they're fucked when you bring the Tribulation.
/


naw, I used to live there. they're cool. they get in.

42 subsailor68  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:04:42pm

re: #25 brookly red

but wasn't it God that said we needed laws in the first place?

Hi brookly! No, you must have misread the famous story of how Moses went up on the mountain and brought back the tablets with the ten suggestions on them.

Wait a minute....that doesn't sound right.

;-)

43 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:04:50pm

re: #29 Cannadian Club Akbar

But if you have no sin, then throw rocks, isn't that a sin?

You get to throw one, and only one, stone. No freebees after the first.

44 Nimed  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:04:50pm

re: #24 MandyManners

Unless you have no sin.

Jesus finds a small crowd who has surrounded a young woman they believed to be a prostitute. They are preparing to stone her to death. To diffuse the situation, Jesus says: "Whoever is without sin among you, let them cast the first stone." Suddenly, an old lady at the back of the crowd picks up a rock and scores a direct hit on the woman's head, breaking her skull and rendering her dead on the spot. Jesus frowns and looks over at the old lady: "You know, Mother, sometimes you really piss me off."

45 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:05:18pm

re: #39 brookly red

well if you consider suicide to be a crime then the numbers change.


which i don't, and the suicide thing is only during the winter time. cold and dark make people sad.

46 abbyadams  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:06:33pm

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

Ghandi

47 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:06:41pm

re: #45 SpaceJesus

which i don't, and the suicide thing is only during the winter time. cold and dark make people sad.

I lived in Canada for 3 months during winter. Dark at 4 in the afternoon. Best sports? Drinking and suicide.

48 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:06:46pm

re: #27 Varek Raith

May the schwartz be with you!

49 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:06:46pm

re: #29 Cannadian Club Akbar

But if you have no sin, then throw rocks, isn't that a sin?

I'm just paraphrasing what Jesus said.

50 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:07:30pm

re: #49 MandyManners

I'm just paraphrasing what Jesus said.

I forgot the sarc tag.

51 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:07:35pm

re: #39 brookly red

well if you consider suicide to be a crime then the numbers change.

High suicide rate?

52 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:07:36pm

because I died for your sins, you can all start throwing rocks now FYI

53 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:07:40pm

And if we all had wings we wouldn't need planes.

54 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:07:58pm

re: #34 SpaceJesus

odd then, that the most non-believing nation on earth (Sweden) has some of the lowest crime rates on the planet.

i don't think that's true. in 2001 it was double that of the USA.

i thought nonbelievers liked facts? because without them, what do you have...?

55 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:08:13pm

re: #51 MandyManners

High suicide rate?

yup.

56 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:09:00pm

re: #53 Cato the Elder

And if we all had wings we wouldn't need planes.

some people would still be too lazy...

57 pharmmajor  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:09:05pm

re: #47 Cannadian Club Akbar

I lived in Canada for 3 months during winter. Dark at 4 in the afternoon. Best sports? Drinking and suicide.

I'd fail at the former, but if depressed enough, I could probably take the gold in the latter.

58 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:09:10pm

re: #53 Cato the Elder

And if we all had wings we wouldn't need planes.

Or Hooters.
/

59 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:09:17pm

re: #29 Cannadian Club Akbar

But if you have no sin, then throw rocks, isn't that a sin?

Yes, but how many people have no sin? It's kind of like that beam/mote in the eye thing.

(BTW, for those of you who aren't parents, kids do this. Three boys are standing there. I say, "Clean up your room." Oldest boy immediately turns to younger boys and says, "you clean up."

I say, "I didn't ask you to be his policeman. You clean up your stuff, and let me worry about him."

We're really just kids grown up big, in some ways.)

60 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:09:41pm

re: #57 pharmmajor

I'd fail at the former, but if depressed enough, I could probably take the gold in the latter.

Ummm...do you have them confused?

61 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:09:52pm

re: #54 Aceofwhat?
What the hell!
There wasn't a Swedish babe on that whole site!!

62 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:10:06pm

re: #60 MandyManners

Ummm...do you have them confused?

Me thinks yes.

63 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:10:11pm

re: #47 Cannadian Club Akbar

I lived in Canada for 3 months during winter. Dark at 4 in the afternoon. Best sports? Drinking and suicide.

Denmark is like that too. But the payoff is summers with like 20 hours of daylight.

64 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:10:17pm

If a frog had wings his butt wouldn't bump when he jumped.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:10:51pm

re: #17 Dreggas

There you go having to bring in that pesky Jesus Fellow. We all know that the books that matter are all in the old testament.

//

Except, of course, for the stuff about social justice and shrimp. And bacon. We can ignore those parts.

66 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:11:02pm

re: #61 reloadingisnotahobby

What the hell!
There wasn't a Swedish babe on that whole site!!

and now your depressed?

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:11:18pm

re: #19 MandyManners

I have an idea that Rand Paul doesn't understand human nature and has an over-reliance on rational thought.

I think you may be on to something there.

68 Nimed  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:11:22pm

re: #39 brookly red

well if you consider suicide to be a crime then the numbers change.

No they don't.

[Link: fathersforlife.org...]

Sweden suicide rate - 18.1 per 100,000
US suicide rate - 17.7 per 100,000

A lot of less developed countries than ours have a lower suicide rate. What should we conclude from that?

69 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:11:41pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

Except, of course, for the stuff about social justice and shrimp. And bacon. We can ignore those parts.

What about bacon wrapped shrimp?

70 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:12:06pm

re: #66 brookly red

and now your depressed?

No....Shattered a little...../

71 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:12:10pm

Someone should pick up on the 2008 Baby Doc quote mentioned on the last thread about how Iran having nukes would not be a problem.

I think that alone might be enough to sink him with rational conservatives.

72 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:12:50pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

Except, of course, for the stuff about social justice and shrimp. And bacon. We can ignore those parts.

free fish sandwiches, cool!

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:13:02pm

re: #24 MandyManners

Unless you have no sin.

"Mom! That's NOT FUNNY! Cut it out!"

74 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:14:12pm

re: #71 Cato the Elder

Someone should pick up on the 2008 Baby Doc quote mentioned on the last thread about how Iran having nukes would not be a problem.

I think that alone might be enough to sink him with rational conservatives.

Me thinks the only rational conservatives are here.

75 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:14:22pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

I think you may be on to something there.

He takes his philosophy too seriously.

76 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:14:25pm

re: #68 Nimed

No they don't.

[Link: fathersforlife.org...]

Sweden suicide rate - 18.1 per 100,000
US suicide rate - 17.7 per 100,000

A lot of less developed countries than ours have a lower suicide rate. What should we conclude from that?

the more you have to struggle to live the less you wanna off your self?

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:15:19pm

re: #32 Slumbering Behemoth

So far, the Phelps have managed not throw rocks. At least as far as I know.

They would throw rocks in a minute if they didn't know they would be arrested, tried, and their asses put in jail. Pretty sure of that.

The rule of law is such a nice thing...

78 MrSilverDragon  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:15:26pm

re: #76 brookly red

the more you have to struggle to live the less you wanna off your self?

More like the more you have to struggle, the less time you have to think about offing yourself, perhaps?

79 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:15:39pm

OT: I have a green dog. Literally.

Haku and I went to a party at my old school yesterday and he rolled on the lawn with such fierce abandon that large parts of his pelt look like a St. Paddy's Day parade.

80 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:15:51pm

re: #76 brookly red

the more you have to struggle to live the less you wanna off your self?


Sadly ...That makes perfect sense to me!!/

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:15:57pm

re: #42 subsailor68

Hi brookly! No, you must have misread the famous story of how Moses went up on the mountain and brought back the tablets with the ten suggestions on them.

Wait a minute...that doesn't sound right.

;-)

The Ten Strong Recommendations.

82 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:16:03pm

Traditionally, Don't Christians require 10 laws?

83 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:16:42pm

re: #79 Cato the Elder

Pictures please!LOL

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:16:53pm

re: #51 MandyManners

High suicide rate?

Scandinavia has a hellacious suicide rate. The winters are killer.

85 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:16:53pm

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

The Ten Strong Recommendations.

Is that like a strongly worded letter?
/

86 ShaunP  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:17:00pm

re: #54 Aceofwhat?

i don't think that's true. in 2001 it was double that of the USA.

i thought nonbelievers liked facts? because without them, what do you have...?

Just a bit of context from your link:

"...It should be observed that the above data reveal that comparatively speaking, Sweden has a low crime rate in regard to murder and major assault, a medium crime rate in regard to rape and robbery, and an exceedingly high rate in regard to property crimes (burglary, larceny, and auto theft)..."

Christians more likely to murder, but less likely to rob? ///

In all honesty, I doubt very much that you could find a strong correlation between religious (christian) piety and incidence of crime...

87 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:17:11pm

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Traditionally, Don't Christians require 10 laws?

I never did understand why not coveting was mentioned twice?

88 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:17:43pm

"I am the Lord thy God, and strongly recommend that you listen to me."

89 lawhawk  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:17:45pm

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

The 15 no... 10, 10 Commandments.

90 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:18:20pm

re: #87 brookly red

I never did understand why not coveting was mentioned twice?

The first rule of not coveting is you don't talk about not coveting.

91 Varek Raith  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:18:44pm

re: #89 lawhawk

The 15 no... 10, 10 Commandments.


[Video]

Lol, I was just gonna post that.
XD

92 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:18:52pm

re: #87 brookly red

I never did understand why not coveting was mentioned twice?

Because we are dense.

93 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:19:12pm

re: #83 reloadingisnotahobby

Pictures please!LOL

Is there a way to post pictures here that come straight off your hard drive, or do you have to post them somewhere online first?

94 Obdicut  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:19:43pm

re: #93 Cato the Elder

You have to post them somewhere first.

I recommend tinypic:

[Link: tinypic.com...]

95 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:19:49pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The first rule of not coveting is you don't talk about not coveting.

.....But..but The greatest of these is LOVE!!
But not with ..her or her or him or that!/

96 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:20:02pm

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

Scandinavia has a hellacious suicide rate. The winters are killer.

Severe Seasonal Affective Disorder?

97 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:20:45pm

I love it when threads spin out of control. Heh.

98 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:20:59pm

re: #93 Cato the Elder

Yea.. Phot opucket or??
As if I have a clue!!lol
I can't get rid of the F'ing avatar I've got!

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:21:00pm

re: #96 MandyManners

Severe Seasonal Affective Disorder?

Basically. Also, high rates of alcoholism.

100 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:21:20pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The first rule of not coveting is you don't talk about not coveting.

First rule? then the commandments have sub commandments?

101 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:21:23pm

re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar

I love it when threads spin out of control.


in bed

102 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:21:40pm

re: #54 Aceofwhat?

i don't think that's true. in 2001 it was double that of the USA.

i thought nonbelievers liked facts? because without them, what do you have...?


i do like facts, i especially like the fact that the site you linked to made a serious typo. the murder rate in sweden isn't 10, it is 1.0 per 100,000 people. this makes it 1/5 that of the US's 5.0 homicides per 100,000

103 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:22:04pm

re: #68 Nimed

No they don't.

[Link: fathersforlife.org...]

Sweden suicide rate - 18.1 per 100,000
US suicide rate - 17.7 per 100,000

A lot of less developed countries than ours have a lower suicide rate. What should we conclude from that?

They're too busy subsisting to contemplate killing themselves?

104 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:22:13pm

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

Basically. Also, high rates of alcoholism.

Who needs a season as an excuse?

105 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:22:25pm

It's kind of amazing to see someone like Rand Paul becoming the new face of the GOP -- it ties together many of the crazy fringe ideas that have caused me to make serious political reassessments over the past few years.

There's even a connection to the Eurofascist movement. Rand Paul and his father are involved in the Robert A. Taft Club, a paleo-right wing group that has hosted Filip DeWinter of the Belgian Vlaams Belang party.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:22:28pm

re: #100 brookly red

First rule? then the commandments have sub commandments?

The freshman religion teacher here likes to have the kids write their stuff. So, they have to write their own commandments, their own Beatitudes, and so on.

My favorite one reads "Thou shalt not kill any other human being, no matter how annoying they may be."

107 Reginald Perrin  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:22:50pm

re: #78 MrSilverDragon

More like the more you have to struggle, the less time you have to think about offing yourself, perhaps?

Iit may have something to do with needs and personal aspirations. Perhaps in developing counties, one sees themselves as having a satisfactory life if the basics needs for survival are met.
In wealthier "more advanced" nations people aspire to higher goals and see their lives as being a failure if they can't have everything Madison Avenue tells us we need.

108 Nimed  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:23:09pm

re: #76 brookly red

the more you have to struggle to live the less you wanna off your self?

That's definitely part of it. Seasonal suicide in northern regions is also a well established phenomenon. Plus, the longer you live, the greater the chances you kill yourself at some point - and most suicides occur in old age.

109 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:23:37pm

re: #102 SpaceJesus

i do like facts, i especially like the fact that the site you linked to made a serious typo. the murder rate in sweden isn't 10, it is 1.0 per 100,000 people. this makes it 1/5 that of the US's 5.0 homicides per 100,000

there is a death panel joke in there somewhere...

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:24:16pm

re: #108 Nimed

That's definitely part of it. Seasonal suicide in northern regions is also a well established phenomenon. Plus, the longer you live, the greater the chances you kill yourself at some point - and most suicides occur in old age.

So basically, living in a hard-drinking culture with bad winters where you have a long life expectancy, and lots of free time to contemplate the emptiness of existence just basically builds up into a bad set of suicide stats?

111 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:24:44pm

re: #105 Charles

It's kind of amazing to see someone like Rand Paul becoming the new face of the GOP -- it ties together many of the crazy fringe ideas that have led to my own political reassessments over the past few years.

There's even a connection to the Eurofascist movement. Rand Paul and his father are involved in the Robert A. Taft Club, a paleo-right wing group that has hosted Filip DeWinter of the Belgian Vlaams Belang party.

They're the gifts that just keep giving.

112 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:25:07pm

re: #108 Nimed

That's funny...My whole family thought I was
hell bent NOT to reach my 25th B-day!

113 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:25:21pm

re: #108 Nimed

That's definitely part of it. Seasonal suicide in northern regions is also a well established phenomenon. Plus, the longer you live, the greater the chances you kill yourself at some point - and most suicides occur in old age.

do these figures include accidental suicides like overdoses?

114 Jaerik  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:25:35pm

re: #35 pharmmajor

Statements like this demonstrate that Rand Paul has no idea about what Libertarianism stands for. (Separation of church and state. Look it up, Rand.)

Came to say this, beat me to it.

The resurgent "libertarianism" of the past few years is... not. It is extreme right conservatism packaged up and sold under a new name, just with a "and this time, we mean it!" spin.

You cannot be a social conservative and a libertarian -- allowing government and religion to merge and dictate legal/social policy is fundamentally incompatible with any supposed wariness of big government.

115 Nimed  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:25:37pm

re: #53 Cato the Elder

And if we all had wings we wouldn't need planes.

We can walk, and we still have cars. :p

116 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:25:41pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

So basically, living in a hard-drinking culture with bad winters where you have a long life expectancy, and lots of free time to contemplate the emptiness of existence just basically builds up into a bad set of suicide stats?

Ever watch a Bergman film?

/

117 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:25:58pm

You got to watch those Presbyterians, they're a sneaky bunch. We wondered into a Presbyterian retreat outside Black Mountain, North Carolina once and got a personal and kind of intimidating (ok, might have been the weed) escort out.

To give them some credit, if it weren't for Presby's starting Camp Meetings all over Appalachia in the 19th century, you'd prolly not have that cool synthesis of gospel, African and scotch-irish music you young'ns call country.

Hoot and holler y'all!

118 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:26:33pm

Rand Paul is like a libertarian, but with all the bits that I might like cut out and replaced with the stuff crazy winger evangelicals stand for.

I mean, really. I like the (ostensibly) libertarian position of maximizing civil liberties, decriminalizing victimless crimes, separation of church and state, etc... And R.P. just kind of chucks all that out as if THAT were the bad part.

The man seems determined to piss me off.

119 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:27:03pm

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

Basically. Also, high rates of alcoholism.

Isn't the over-dependence on booze a mal-adjustment to SAD?

120 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:27:29pm

re: #117 Jeff In Ohio

You got to watch those Presbyterians, they're a sneaky bunch. We wondered into a Presbyterian retreat outside Black Mountain, North Carolina once and got a personal and kind of intimidating (ok, might have been the weed) escort out.

To give them some credit, if it weren't for Presby's starting Camp Meetings all over Appalachia in the 19th century, you'd prolly not have that cool synthesis of gospel, African and scotch-irish music you young'ns call country.

Hoot and holler y'all!

Music is one of the best things about religion, unless your religion forbids music.

121 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:27:49pm

re: #119 MandyManners

Isn't the over-dependence on booze a mal-adjustment to SAD?

*WHACK*

122 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:28:02pm

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

They'd do a hell of a lot worse then that if there were some Sharia-like legal system in place that favored their views.

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:28:16pm

re: #119 MandyManners

Isn't the over-dependence on booze a mal-adjustment to SAD?

Might well be.

124 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:29:31pm

That isn't quite the way I took his statement.

Sarah Posner did some "constructive" editing but thankfully posted the video clip.

[Link: blogs.cbn.com...]


"I think that in some ways it's funny because people talk about laws and say "well, we have a law against this". Laws really only work because most of us don't even need the laws. You know what I mean? 98% of us won’t murder people, won’t steal, won’t break the law and it helps a society to have that religious underpinning. You still need to have the laws but I think it helps to have a people who believe in law and order and who have a moral compass or a moral basis for their day to day life.

I take that "us" as being inclusive of the population as a whole, meaning 98% of the population aren't murderous thieves.

125 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:29:31pm

re: #121 Cannadian Club Akbar

*WHACK*

?

It's one thing to enjoy a few brews. It's another to use booze to avoid problems.

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:29:38pm

re: #120 Cato the Elder

Music is one of the best things about religion, unless your religion forbids music.

Garrison Keillor (I know, I know) did a very funny piece, writing to young Methodists trying to work out if they have a talent for music.

You need to figure out if your talent is from God. If your talent is for choir or church music, of course it is, because who else would bother?

127 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:30:31pm

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

Might well be.

Smoke more dope? I've never known a suicidal pot-head.

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:30:34pm

re: #122 Slumbering Behemoth

They'd do a hell of a lot worse then that if there were some Sharia-like legal system in place that favored their views.

Damn skippy. This is just one of the many, many reasons I like the legal system of the United States just the way it is. (With room for improvements, of course.)

129 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:31:34pm

re: #120 Cato the Elder

Music is one of the best things about religion, unless your religion forbids music.

Why don't Baptists have sex standing up?

Because someone might think they were dancing.

130 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:31:42pm

re: #125 MandyManners

I forgot the sarc tag...again. Look at the amount of people who use pills these days. Replaces booze, replaces problems. Sad, really.

131 Renaissance_Man  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:31:55pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

I think you may be on to something there.

I think not - I don't see a whole lot of rationality in thought at all.

What I see is a school of thought that has bounced around an echo chamber for so long that it's considered to be a truth, despite having never interacted with reality or any contrary facts or opinions. Exposed to the harsh light of reality, the philosophy cannot survive unchanged. And rather than adapt it to reality, instead it crawls back into its cave where it can carry on unmolested by inconvenient facts, opinions and questions.

In the alternate universe of the Conservative cult media, everything Rand Paul and his ilk believe is true. The difficulty we are seeing now is what happens when that universe and the real one intersect a little. The strategy for the cult now is to divide those universes again for six months or so, so that the memes can metastasise and incubate a little more, and then the denizens of that universe can briefly interact with ours again in November at the polling booth.

132 Racer X  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:31:55pm

re: #122 Slumbering Behemoth

They'd do a hell of a lot worse then that if there were some Sharia-like legal system in place that favored their views.

It kinda sounds like this is what RP wants.

133 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:32:00pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

Garrison Keillor (I know, I know) did a very funny piece, writing to young Methodists trying to work out if they have a talent for music.

You need to figure out if your talent is from God. If your talent is for choir or church music, of course it is, because who else would bother?

I was in the Methodist Bell Choir. It's not keeping me out of hell. The Methodist's shout a good game, but when it's time to rock with the holy spirit, they just can't bring it as much as shove it in your face.

134 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:32:31pm

re: #127 MandyManners

Smoke more dope? I've never known a suicidal pot-head.

Why bother with such things?

135 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:32:31pm

/wait a minute... so then if we were all Christians then we wouldn't need congress either? Hmmmmm

136 Obdicut  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:32:38pm

re: #124 RogueOne

Then what is this part doing in there?

98% of us won’t murder people, won’t steal, won’t break the law and it helps a society to have that religious underpinning

Are you saying they're just two unconnected thoughts in the same sentence?

137 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:33:17pm

re: #127 MandyManners

Smoke more dope? I've never known a suicidal pot-head.

ever see em when they run out?

138 Varek Raith  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:33:35pm

Funny, I don't need religion to guide my moral compass.
Why is that?

139 Stanghazi  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:33:52pm

Anyone watching the presser on the gulf oil crap?

140 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:34:02pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

Funny, I don't need religion to guide my moral compass.
Why is that?

Common Sense?

141 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:34:25pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

Funny, I don't need religion to guide my moral compass.
Why is that?

HERETIC!!!

/

142 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:34:29pm

re: #137 brookly red

ever see em when they run out?

When they run out of Doritos?

143 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:34:34pm

re: #132 Racer X

Sort of a "There are no gays in Iran" vibe.

144 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:34:42pm

If everyone were vegan, we wouldn't need meat inspectors.

145 Nimed  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:34:43pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

So basically, living in a hard-drinking culture with bad winters where you have a long life expectancy, and lots of free time to contemplate the emptiness of existence just basically builds up into a bad set of suicide stats?

:)
Apparently. It also helps that your religion doesn't have a particularly strong stigma against suicide. But I've hard there's a lot of problems with inter-country comparison of suicide data, because that same stigma may lead to misclassification of suicide cases. My grandfather used to tell stories about some deceased in his village were widely suspected to have killed themselves, but basically everybody tacitly agreed to put up an act.

146 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:34:59pm

re: #136 Obdicut

Then what is this part doing in there?

Are you saying they're just two unconnected thoughts in the same sentence?

No. You disagree that having a moral compass helps you to make the right choices?

147 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:35:18pm

re: #142 Mad Al-Jaffee

When they run out of Doritos?

oh that can get ugly...

148 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:35:26pm

re: #144 Cato the Elder

If everyone were vegan, we wouldn't need meat inspectors.

The above statement is true.

149 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:35:59pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

Funny, I don't need religion to guide my moral compass.
Why is that?

Absolute Morality.

150 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:36:09pm

re: #17 Dreggas

There you go having to bring in that pesky Jesus Fellow. We all know that the books that matter are all in the old testament.

//

If they had all been good Jews, they wouldn't even have needed the Ten Commanments.

151 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:36:10pm

I wish I could tell whether Rand Paul actually said that we wouldn't need laws if everybody were a good christian, or whether this is the Brody File's paraphrase or interpretation of what he in fact said.

If what Rand said was just that

98% of us [christians? religious believers?] won’t murder people, won’t steal, won’t break the law and it helps a society to have that religious underpinning. You still need to have the laws but I think it helps to have a people who believe in law and order and who have a moral compass or a moral basis for their day to day life.


then he said nothing exceptional. That, after all, was also the opinion of George Washington. That other two percent remain a problem, after all, so IF what Rand said was just that a religious underpinning helps reduce the frequency of stealing and murder, then that quote of his above doesn't imply we don't need laws. It doesn't imply that we wouldn't need laws if everybody professed Christianity, or some other faith that teaches obedience to the law, that teaches not to steal and not to murder.

Whether the religions he has in mind succeed in regulating the behavior of those professing that faith is a question of fact. Christian opinion on the matter is rather pessimistic. It is, so the teaching goes, unfortunately rather likely that those who embrace the faith will sometimes do really bad things. Knowing that they shouldn't. And that for that reason, there must be laws. Professions of faith can be hollow, and even those who devoutly believe can sometimes rationalize all manner of crimes. The prospect of worldly punishment is no perfect regulator of behavior either, but it has its uses and we cannot do without it.

152 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:36:15pm

re: #146 RogueOne

No. You disagree that having a moral compass helps you to make the right choices?

Morality and Religion are two separate ideas.

153 Gus  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:36:23pm

re: #144 Cato the Elder

If everyone were vegan, we wouldn't need meat inspectors.

Steven Wright!

Not really but now that I think about it Steven Wright could come up with a lot of "Rand Paul Logic."

154 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:36:25pm

re: #147 brookly red

oh that can get ugly...

You can have my Doritos when you try them from my cold dead Paprika colored hands...

155 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:36:31pm

re: #146 RogueOne

No. You disagree that having a moral compass helps you to make the right choices?

Hasn't helped me any.

156 Obdicut  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:36:51pm

re: #146 RogueOne

No. You disagree that having a moral compass helps you to make the right choices?

What the hell kind of a question is that, and where did it come from what I asked? What a weird question-- I mean, a 'moral compass' is something that by definition helps you make the 'right choices'.

Can you ask whatever you're asking again in a way that isn't "Do you disagree that A=A"?

Also, if it had some relevance to what Rand had said, that'd be great.

157 ShaunP  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:36:55pm

re: #146 RogueOne

No. You disagree that having a moral compass helps you to make the right choices?

I disagree that being baptized gives you moral compass.

158 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:37:21pm

re: #155 Jeff In Ohio

Hasn't helped me any.

With you, I'm not surprised/

159 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:37:26pm

re: #154 Cannadian Club Akbar

You can have my Doritos when you try them from my cold dead Paprika colored hands...

did you ever try making nachos out of Doritos?

160 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:37:40pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

Garrison Keillor (I know, I know) did a very funny piece, writing to young Methodists trying to work out if they have a talent for music.

You need to figure out if your talent is from God. If your talent is for choir or church music, of course it is, because who else would bother?

No need to apologize for Garrison Keillor. I don't care what your politics are, when you're that talented and funny I'm gonna love you.

161 Locker  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:37:52pm

I bought my moral compass from REI but I think it's defective. It keeps pointing me towards weed, bbq and curvy naked woman. Doesn't mean I want to return it... just saying...

162 Ericus58  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:37:53pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

What is it with Garrison that I don't know in making you give the disclaimer?

163 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:38:10pm

re: #130 Cannadian Club Akbar

I forgot the sarc tag...again. Look at the amount of people who use pills these days. Replaces booze, replaces problems. Sad, really.

Not if there is a medical reason such as as a problem with seratonin levels.

164 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:38:22pm

re: #161 Locker

I must have gotten one from the same batch.

165 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:38:31pm

re: #159 brookly red

did you ever try making nachos out of Doritos?

You're treading into "Pineapple Pizza" territory with that one.

166 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:38:42pm

re: #158 RogueOne

With you, I'm not surprised/

:)
Hell, if I didn't have a moral compass, I wouldn't know where all the real fun is.

167 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:38:52pm

re: #161 Locker

I bought my moral compass from REI but I think it's defective. It keeps pointing me towards weed, bbq and curvy naked woman. Doesn't mean I want to return it... just saying...

I use moral GPS...

168 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:38:57pm

re: #159 brookly red

did you ever try making nachos out of Doritos?

Never.

169 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:38:58pm

re: #162 Ericus58

He's unabashedly liberal? Maybe that's what she meant.

170 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:39:00pm

re: #137 brookly red

ever see em when they run out?

DOOD. YOU HARSHED DA BUZZ.

171 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:39:12pm

re: #156 Obdicut

That is what he was talking about, you've never had a multiple sentence statement that dealt with 2 ideas? If you want to believe he's strictly talking about christians that's well within your rights.

172 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:39:18pm

re: #149 Slumbering Behemoth

Absolute Morality.

This fails to convince.

173 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:39:21pm

re: #165 Slumbering Behemoth

You're treading into "Pineapple Pizza" territory with that one.

You know it!!!!

174 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:39:21pm

The whole religion teaches morals kind of hits a brick wall when you have preachers of every creed saying worshippers have a religious reason to kill their neighbors because of their beliefs or race.

175 lawhawk  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:39:31pm

re: #148 Cannadian Club Akbar

What? You mean that Carl Sagan was right, and we've been getting messages from aliens via Vega? /

176 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:39:55pm

"Religious underpinning" sounds just fine on the surface. anything that encourages people to be more moral and lead better lives can be of a benefit to all of society.

But it smacks of a codeword for "theocracy".

177 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:40:05pm
178 garhighway  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:40:13pm

re: #175 lawhawk

What? You mean that Carl Sagan was right, and we've been getting messages from aliens via Vega? /

Close. The aliens are DRIVING a Vega.

Stupid aliens.

179 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:40:14pm

re: #168 Cannadian Club Akbar

Never.

then your not a stoner...

180 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:40:49pm

Now wait just a second, he claims to be a "true Christian©" but says that his wife is a Deacon?

How can that be? When everything in the bible says that women are not to be teachers nor have any authority over men?

1 Corinthians 14:34

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the Law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”

1 Timothy 2:11-15,

“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved with childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity, and holiness with sobriety.”

And that is without even getting into all the blatantly misogynistic things that Paul had to say. Luap Dnar is obviously not following the teachings to found in his bible!

He is a CINO!

///

181 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:41:03pm

re: #161 Locker

I bought my moral compass from REI but I think it's defective. It keeps pointing me towards weed, bbq and curvy naked woman. Doesn't mean I want to return it... just saying...

I make those in my spare time. That's not a bug, that's a feature.

182 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:41:05pm

re: #174 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The whole religion teaches morals kind of hits a brick wall when you have preachers of every creed saying worshippers have a religious reason to kill their neighbors because of their beliefs or race.

Especially if their religious text commands them to kill infidels.

183 ShaunP  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:41:05pm

LGF Cookbook just arrived. Thanks Reine...

184 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:41:17pm

re: #179 brookly red

then your not a stoner...

Nope. Used to be. I can roll freehand to this day.

185 Obdicut  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:41:39pm

re: #171 RogueOne

That is what he was talking about, you've never had a multiple sentence statement that dealt with 2 ideas? If you want to believe he's strictly talking about christians that's well within your rights.

Again, I don't have any clue what you're talking about. Didn't you just say "No" to my question "Are you saying they're just two unconnected thoughts in the same sentence?"

Can you explain the relevance of a 'religious underpinning' to the 98% of people not committing crimes part of the sentence?

186 Racer X  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:41:58pm

re: #159 brookly red

did you ever try making nachos out of Doritos?

Spread a handful of Doritos on a plate.
Sprinkle shredded cheese everywhere. Lots.
Microwave for 20 secs.

187 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:41:59pm

re: #176 ralphieboy

"Religious underpinning" sounds just fine on the surface. anything that encourages people to be more moral and lead better lives can be of a benefit to all of society.

But it smacks of a codeword for "theocracy".

I've been told it's not if it's wrapped around "promote the general welfare" clause of the preamble to the constitution. It's for the betterment of the population as a whole and and all that.

188 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:42:01pm

re: #172 Cato the Elder

Not surprised.

189 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:42:24pm

And to think the pilgrims set sail to get religious freedom, to then burn people alive for not following their dictates.

Pilgrim's paradox..gotta love it. Until we realize it's never really left.

190 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:42:34pm

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

Basically. Also, high rates of alcoholism.

Iceland particularly has trouble with alcohol. The people of Iceland have no thousands-of-years history of wine drinking. They've not evolved a tolerance for alcohol. The Greeks and the French are better able to cope with the availability of inexpensive, high alcohol content drinks than are Icelanders or Russians.

People differ, the one from the next, in their ability to cope with alcohol. To some extent this varies from group to group as well. Whether it's an individual thing or whether it's connected to ancestry, those who find themselves particularly vulnerable to the stuff need to be extra cautious. Yes, Lindsay, you too.

Those who find that they can drink like a sailor need to be cautious too. Enough heavy alcohol use for long enough will warp the mind and wreck the liver every time.

191 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:42:44pm

re: #186 Racer X

Spread a handful of Doritos on a plate.
Sprinkle shredded cheese everywhere. Lots.
Microwave for 20 secs.

Dude, no jalapenos? WTF?
/

192 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:43:22pm

re: #182 MandyManners

Especially if their religious text commands them to kill infidels.

The whole "God wants you to kill a fag" is riding pretty high right now. And generations of Irish want to have a word with the Catholic Church about morality.

193 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:43:39pm

re: #185 Obdicut

I said "No". Was that too confusing? I'm not playing word games with you today. If you want to believe he was strictly talking about christians then please go ahead, I was stating my contrary view that that isn't how I understood his whole statement.

194 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:44:02pm

re: #190 lostlakehiker

Iceland particularly has trouble with alcohol. The people of Iceland have no thousands-of-years history of wine drinking. They've not evolved a tolerance for alcohol. The Greeks and the French are better able to cope with the availability of inexpensive, high alcohol content drinks than are Icelanders or Russians.

People differ, the one from the next, in their ability to cope with alcohol. To some extent this varies from group to group as well. Whether it's an individual thing or whether it's connected to ancestry, those who find themselves particularly vulnerable to the stuff need to be extra cautious. Yes, Lindsay, you too.

Those who find that they can drink like a sailor need to be cautious too. Enough heavy alcohol use for long enough will warp the mind and wreck the liver every time.

This is why I sniff glue.
/

195 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:44:43pm

re: #194 Cannadian Club Akbar

Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit.

196 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:45:22pm

re: #195 Fozzie Bear

Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit.

Ever been in a men's locker room?

197 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:45:28pm

re: #194 Cannadian Club Akbar

This is why I sniff glue.
/

To each his own weakness: I have a bottle of vodka in my cupboard that I eopened at Christmas, 2008, I still haven't finished it off. But I cannot keep good skunk in the house, I pounce on it like catnip.

198 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:45:29pm

re: #186 Racer X

Spread a handful of Doritos on a plate.
Sprinkle shredded cheese everywhere. Lots.
Microwave for 20 secs.

you sound like my room mate in school... but that was a toaster oven there were no microwaves yet.

199 Obdicut  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:45:50pm

re: #193 RogueOne

I said "No". Was that too confusing? I'm not playing word games with you today. If you want to believe he was strictly talking about christians then please go ahead, I was stating my contrary view that that isn't how I understood his whole statement.

What word games, Rogue? I literally have no clue what you're trying to argue here, at all. I also haven't mentioned 'Christians' once, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing Christians up. I'm talking about this sentence:

98% of us won’t murder people, won’t steal, won’t break the law and it helps a society to have that religious underpinning.

And I'm asking you what relevance 'that religious underpinning' has to the first part of the sentence.

200 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:45:55pm

re: #156 Obdicut

What the hell kind of a question is that, and where did it come from what I asked? What a weird question-- I mean, a 'moral compass' is something that by definition helps you make the 'right choices'.

Can you ask whatever you're asking again in a way that isn't "Do you disagree that A=A"?

Also, if it had some relevance to what Rand had said, that'd be great.

A moral compass may point the way. But a diet guide points the way to how many calories to consume. Having the diet guide in front of me, along with a platter of steak and fries, I can imagine myself putting the folder aside and tucking in. I don't always do what I know I should, even when I know full well what that is. I expect most people likewise find that having the compass is a far cry from staying on the path.

201 Virginia Plain  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:46:34pm

Wow, the wind is so bad out there, I can feel the house swaying.

202 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:46:48pm

re: #197 ralphieboy

To each his own weakness: I have a bottle of vodka in my cupboard that I eopened at Christmas, 2008, I still haven't finished it off. But I cannot keep good skunk in the house, I pounce on it like catnip.

I love a good skunk bud, but I hate the high.

203 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:46:50pm

re: #197 ralphieboy

I started taking chantix. I'm still smoking cigarettes but I've managed to make a 1/4 last 6 weeks. Something isn't working right.

204 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:47:13pm

re: #201 Virginia Plain

Wow, the wind is so bad out there, I can feel the house swaying.


Never underestimate the power of a Chinook

205 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:47:33pm

re: #201 Virginia Plain

Wow, the wind is so bad out there, I can feel the house swaying.

Did the earth move for you?

206 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:47:39pm

Speaking of chantix, If Cato is around... How goes the no smoking?

207 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:47:49pm

As an agnostic, I look at from 1 of 2 ways.

1) If there is a God, he wants us to grow, learn and expand. Spending time hurting each other takes away from that.

or

2) Assume there is no God or afterlife, why do you want to hurt someone needlessly if here and now is all there is to it? Stop wasting time and breath and get on with living your life.

Religion fails on both counts and I won't waste my time on it.

208 Ericus58  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:48:15pm

re: #160 Cato the Elder

No need to apologize for Garrison Keillor. I don't care what your politics are, when you're that talented and funny I'm gonna love you.

I listen to The Writer's Almanac most every day on the way home from work. I enjoy it. Occasionally he will highlight someone whose is to my left in politics, but that's alright - it's his show.

I don't listen for the politics, I listen for the poetry. It's a nice calming influence after a day of work... the last three years have been very challenging with the program I'm on and finding a way to relax is good.

209 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:48:39pm

re: #203 RogueOne

I started taking chantix. I'm still smoking cigarettes but I've managed to make a 1/4 last 6 weeks. Something isn't working right.

really I was thinking of trying it but the fair balance is scary...

210 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:49:04pm

re: #204 ralphieboy

Never underestimate the power of a Chinook

A black helicopter?!

211 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:49:36pm

re: #198 brookly red

you sound like my room mate in school... but that was a toaster oven there were no microwaves yet.

Books on papyrus scrolls?

212 Obdicut  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:50:18pm

re: #200 lostlakehiker

And a compass can be completely independent of any religious sentiment, as well. You don't need religion to have a 'moral compass'. Many religions have a very faulty moral compass, too, in regards the treatment of women, as the easiest example. Luckily, a lot of religions have evolved over time to be more humane-- they've had their moral compass adjusted by the work of human beings.

There are still a lot of religions, however, that condone very immoral things on a regular basis, like the subservient position of women in Thai Buddhism and some Christian sects, the anti-Jewish sentiment of mainstream Islam or Southern Baptism, or the huge immoral mess that was the Schiavo incident.

213 garhighway  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:50:22pm

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

As an agnostic, I look at from 1 of 2 ways.

1) If there is a God, he wants us to grow, learn and expand. Spending time hurting each other takes away from that.

or

2) Assume there is no God or afterlife, why do you want to hurt someone needlessly if here and now is all there is to it? Stop wasting time and breath and get on with living your life.

Religion fails on both counts and I won't waste my time on it.

Does your conclusion from your first assumption follow? Why couldn't an all-powerful creator of the universe be utterly indifferent to the activities of the various beings in it? Why does creation imply interest?

214 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:50:34pm

re: #209 brookly red

really I was thinking of trying it but the fair balance is scary...

I did Chantix with Wellbutrin. Went from 2 packs a day to 4 smokes a day. Nothing but positive feedback here. (Although I still smoke cigs because I am weak)

215 sffilk  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:50:44pm

It's sounding more and more like maybe I should sell everything off and move somewhere else. (I'm Jewish).

216 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:50:47pm

re: #208 Ericus58

I listen to The Writer's Almanac most every day on the way home from work. I enjoy it. Occasionally he will highlight someone whose is to my left in politics, but that's alright - it's his show.

I don't listen for the politics, I listen for the poetry. It's a nice calming influence after a day of work... the last three years have been very challenging with the program I'm on and finding a way to relax is good.

What program are you in? Some kinda schoolin'?

Man, don't you know all you need is the Bible?

217 Stanghazi  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:51:00pm

Admiral Thad Allen giving the presser on the oil mess.

Pretty tough dude.

I was getting answers to my questions till they cut away!

218 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:51:07pm

re: #209 brookly red

It works fairly well and if I had a chance to take a week away from other smokers I think I could kick it. I'm down to about 1/2 a pack a day without really trying.

219 Obdicut  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:51:20pm

re: #214 Cannadian Club Akbar

Welbutrin helped me quit cold turkey. It was also my fifth try, and the hardest thing I'd ever done.

220 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:51:28pm

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There are people who have faith without ever being involved in any kind of organized religion. The converse is also true.

221 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:52:01pm

re: #214 Cannadian Club Akbar

I did Chantix with Wellbutrin. Went from 2 packs a day to 4 smokes a day. Nothing but positive feedback here. (Although I still smoke cigs because I am weak)

Wellbutrin made me angry so they switched me to chantix.

222 Stanghazi  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:52:02pm

re: #208 Ericus58

Are you the one here who has reposted the Writer's Almanac? Much appreciated.

223 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:52:17pm

re: #219 Obdicut

Welbutrin helped me quit cold turkey. It was also my fifth try, and the hardest thing I'd ever done.

I originally did Wellbutrin. I didn't quit, but I yelled less.

224 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:52:27pm

re: #214 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had a cigar yesterday (second smoke of the year) and I can still taste it. And I'm still hungover from Saturday's party and yesterday's leftovers.

225 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:52:28pm

re: #214 Cannadian Club Akbar

I did Chantix with Wellbutrin. Went from 2 packs a day to 4 smokes a day. Nothing but positive feedback here. (Although I still smoke cigs because I am weak)

with Welbutrin? Hmmm I thought it was one or the other... but then again Pfizer is a bit territorial.

226 Gus  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:52:59pm

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

As an agnostic, I look at from 1 of 2 ways.

1) If there is a God, he wants us to grow, learn and expand. Spending time hurting each other takes away from that.

or

2) Assume there is no God or afterlife, why do you want to hurt someone needlessly if here and now is all there is to it? Stop wasting time and breath and get on with living your life.

Religion fails on both counts and I won't waste my time on it.

I believe the same factors motivate people not to murder regardless of whether they're religious or non-religious. Some would call it human behavior and it is innate.

227 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:53:08pm

re: #225 brookly red

with Welbutrin? Hmmm I thought it was one or the other... but then again Pfizer is a bit territorial.

Zyban and Welbutrin are the same.

228 Obdicut  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:53:17pm

re: #223 Cannadian Club Akbar

I originally did Wellbutrin. I didn't quit, but I yelled less.

The only downside to it was that it made me even more disgustingly upbeat and chipper. My fiancée nearly throttled me.

I'm one of those morning people, and on Welbutrin, I was literally humming happy tunes five minutes after waking up. Terrible.

229 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:53:34pm

re: #213 garhighway

Does your conclusion from your first assumption follow? Why couldn't an all-powerful creator of the universe be utterly indifferent to the activities of the various beings in it? Why does creation imply interest?

True, so I just follow my basic drives, which are to learn, grow and expand, both my own knowledge and experience and raising my family.

God keeps to his business, I keep to mine and we both end up happy.

230 garhighway  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:53:56pm

re: #229 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

True, so I just follow my basic drives, which are to learn, grow and expand, both my own knowledge and experience and raising my family.

God keeps to his business, I keep to mine and we both end up happy.

Good plan.

231 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:54:04pm

re: #228 Obdicut

The only downside to it was that it made me even more disgustingly upbeat and chipper. My fiancée nearly throttled me.

I'm one of those morning people, and on Welbutrin, I was literally humming happy tunes five minutes after waking up. Terrible.

BASTARD!!!!
/

232 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:54:05pm

re: #214 Cannadian Club Akbar

If I could get you to elaborate a little... any side effects of chantix? I'm curious to try it.

233 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:54:06pm

[Link: patcondell.com...]

At times like this Pat Condell is good for what ails ya.

234 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:55:11pm

re: #107 Reginald Perrin

Iit may have something to do with needs and personal aspirations. Perhaps in developing counties, one sees themselves as having a satisfactory life if the basics needs for survival are met.
In wealthier "more advanced" nations people aspire to higher goals and see their lives as being a failure if they can't have everything Madison Avenue tells us we need.

I came across an article in the British "Telegraph" newspaper about five years ago detailing the wide divergence of suicide rates in Britain and France. The article explored the subject quite carefully and came to this basic conclusion: in France, the general course of your life is largely out of your control. Your own efforts cannot jump your life out of its channel, nor will lack of effort boot you from that channel. Little things like what to have for dinner are in your control, but not much else is. In Britain, life is less secure but opportunity is wider. People feel under the gun, and they struggle to succeed. Mostly, they do succeed, to a point anyway.

This breeds a sense of futility in France, and a sense of agency in Britain. Feeling like nothing you do matters, because in fact nothing you do much matters, sets the stage for suicide.

235 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:55:13pm

re: #221 RogueOne

Wellbutrin made me angry so they switched me to chantix.

Maybe they should change the name to Notwellbutrin.

236 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:55:17pm

re: #226 Gus 802

I believe the same factors motivate people not to murder regardless of whether they're religious or non-religious. Some would call it human behavior and it is innate.


I think it goes back to the Beginning..Cain and Able and all that.

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:55:30pm

re: #154 Cannadian Club Akbar

You can have my Doritos when you try them from my cold dead Paprika colored hands...

My sixth-graders used to smuggle Red Hot Cheetos into the classroom. I would catch them when they raised their hands--their little fingertips would be stained chili-powder red.

238 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:55:47pm

re: #232 Fozzie Bear

If I could get you to elaborate a little... any side effects of chantix? I'm curious to try it.

Zero. And I do not take any pills. (including aspirin) But ask about sleep quality. I don't recall any but it is possible there might be some.

239 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:56:03pm

re: #226 Gus 802

I believe the same factors motivate people not to murder regardless of whether they're religious or non-religious. Some would call it human behavior and it is innate.

Plenty of reasons to kill a man, secular and religious.
There are also plenty of reasons to let a man live, secular and religious.

240 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:56:27pm

re: #234 lostlakehiker

I came across an article in the British "Telegraph" newspaper about five years ago detailing the wide divergence of suicide rates in Britain and France. The article explored the subject quite carefully and came to this basic conclusion: in France, the general course of your life is largely out of your control. Your own efforts cannot jump your life out of its channel, nor will lack of effort boot you from that channel. Little things like what to have for dinner are in your control, but not much else is. In Britain, life is less secure but opportunity is wider. People feel under the gun, and they struggle to succeed. Mostly, they do succeed, to a point anyway.

This breeds a sense of futility in France, and a sense of agency in Britain. Feeling like nothing you do matters, because in fact nothing you do much matters, sets the stage for suicide.


France gave us existentialism, Britain gave us the Protestant Work ethic.

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:56:28pm

re: #162 Ericus58

What is it with Garrison that I don't know in making you give the disclaimer?

He ticked me off majorly with some comments over the holidays about Jews writing too many popular Christmas carols.

242 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:56:32pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

My sixth-graders used to smuggle Red Hot Cheetos into the classroom. I would catch them when they raised their hands--their little fingertips would be stained chili-powder red.

Love those things.

243 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:56:57pm

re: #227 Cannadian Club Akbar

Zyban and Welbutrin are the same.

I still wouldn't trust mixing them w/Chantix.

244 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:56:58pm

re: #232 Fozzie Bear

If I could get you to elaborate a little... any side effects of chantix? I'm curious to try it.

Techni-color dreaming and the occasional thought of "I wonder if getting hit by a truck hurts?". They both go away.....eventually.

245 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:57:06pm

re: #240 ralphieboy

France gave us existentialism, Britain gave us the Protestant Work ethic.

AND fish and chips!

246 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:57:10pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

He ticked me off majorly with some comments over the holidays about Jews writing too many popular Christmas carols.


They are just good songwriters, and if it sells, it sells...

247 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:57:44pm

re: #245 Mad Al-Jaffee

AND fish and chips!

and spotted dick.

248 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:57:46pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plenty of reasons to kill a man, secular and religious.
There are also plenty of reasons to let a man live, secular and religious.

But there's only one reason to kill a man, then bring him back to life.
/Bwahahahah!

249 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:57:53pm

re: #234 lostlakehiker

in France, the general course of your life is largely out of your control. Your own efforts cannot jump your life out of its channel, nor will lack of effort boot you from that channel.


What? That sounds rather feudal.

250 Gus  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:58:05pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plenty of reasons to kill a man, secular and religious.
There are also plenty of reasons to let a man live, secular and religious.

That's why I said murder. Killing to save the life of another is justified in many case and can be found in the Catechism (just one example) as well as in secular laws.

251 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:58:19pm

re: #243 brookly red

I still wouldn't trust mixing them w/Chantix.

Chantix and Welbutrin have the same result. And as far as mixing them, I did fine. QWDLFJQDWFLJQW{ovjc

252 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:58:21pm

re: #212 Obdicut

There are still a lot of religions, however, that condone very immoral things on a regular basis, like the subservient position of women in Thai Buddhism and some Christian sects, the anti-Jewish sentiment of mainstream Islam or Southern Baptism, or the huge immoral mess that was the Schiavo incident.

Interesting that you should mention the Thai Buddhist example. I have a friend from Thailand and she could sing you a song or two about that.

Many people just assume that Buddhists are generally more "enlightened" about such things, but the truth is much more complicated. For example, in Thailand if you want to become a fully-ordained Buddhist nun you still have to do it in secret. Whereas Catholics have had nuns ever since one can remember.

253 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:58:52pm

re: #248 Slumbering Behemoth

But there's only one reason to kill a man, then bring him back to life.
/Bwahahahah!

To kill him again.

254 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:59:27pm

re: #247 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

and spotted dick.


And toad in the hole. And they refer to spaghetti Bolognese as "spagbol". Amazing, their ability to take even tasty food and make it sound unappealing...

255 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:59:31pm

re: #187 RogueOne

I've been told it's not if it's wrapped around "promote the general welfare" clause of the preamble to the constitution. It's for the betterment of the population as a whole and and all that.

Err...so 'general welfare' doesn't mean a health-care bill, but can mean the demolition of the Establishment Clause?

256 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:59:32pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plenty of reasons to kill a man, secular and religious.
There are also plenty of reasons to let a man live, secular and religious.

Anyone who wants to commit a murder, or perform any other immoral action, will always be able to justify their particular action no matter what religion they belong to. -- or don't. Moral exceptionalism-- it's what's on the menu.

257 ShaunP  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:59:33pm

re: #253 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To kill him again.

I was gonna say "to terrorize the villagers"...

258 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 12:59:36pm

re: #253 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To kill him again.

IIRC North Carolina saved a mans life to execute him.

259 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:00:02pm

re: #189 Oh no...Sand People!

And to think the pilgrims set sail to get religious freedom, to then burn people alive for not following their dictates.

Pilgrim's paradox..gotta love it. Until we realize it's never really left.

They didn't burn in America.

260 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:00:44pm

re: #258 Cannadian Club Akbar

IIRC North Carolina saved a mans life to execute him.


Sounds like Lawrence of Arabia.

261 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:00:52pm

re: #257 ShaunP

I was gonna say "to terrorize the villagers"...

Yeah, but I can be a vindictive bastard.

262 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:00:55pm

re: #247 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Remember, in England, an elevator is called a lift, a mile is called a kilometer, and botulism is called steak and kidney pie."

Marj Simpson

263 ryannon  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:00:55pm

re: #240 ralphieboy

France gave us existentialism, Britain gave us the Protestant Work ethic.

France gave us Brigitte Bardot and Eric Cantona.

Britain gave us Mr. Bean and Benny Hill.

You can play this game forever. Doesn't prove squat.

264 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:01:34pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

They preferred crushing people under large piles of stones. It sort of combines the burial with the death itself. Very efficient.

265 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:01:46pm

re: #253 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #257 ShaunP

I was fishing for "Zombie Army", but you guys have great answers.

266 ryannon  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:01:55pm

re: #249 MandyManners

What? That sounds rather feudal.

Broad brush.

267 Locker  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:02:02pm

re: #233 Oh no...Sand People!

[Link: patcondell.com...]

At times like this Pat Condell is good for what ails ya.

Pat Condell is the mofaking man. All time favorite.

268 Gus  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:02:47pm

re: #267 Locker

Pat Condell is the mofaking man. All time favorite.

Yeah, but UKIP?

[mumbles]

269 Virginia Plain  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:02:49pm

re: #263 ryannon

Britain gave us Mr. Bean and Benny Hill.

And Monty Python.

270 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:02:52pm

re: #264 Fozzie Bear

They preferred crushing people under large piles of stones. It sort of combines the burial with the death itself. Very efficient.

also there is the moral loop hole that you are not actually throwing the stones...

271 Ericus58  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:03:00pm

re: #216 Cato the Elder

What program are you in? Some kinda schoolin'?

Man, don't you know all you need is the Bible?

Commercial Aerospace
Fairly new program
Charles knows which company.

Now don't get me wrong, the Good Book was a strong influence in my youth. But my travels and experiences have continued to "round" me out.

272 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:03:13pm

re: #265 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, Jesus was essentially a zombie that promised his followers zombiehood as well.

273 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:03:13pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

They didn't burn in America.

Were the victims of the Salem witch trials burned at the stake?

With the exception of Giles Corey--who was crushed to death for refusing to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty, the executed were hanged, not burned. In Colonial America, witchcraft was a felony punishable by death by hanging. However, in Europe witchcraft was considered heresy and punishable by burning at the stake.

Correct!

I retract the burn and replace with a noose.

274 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:03:20pm

re: #266 ryannon

Broad brush.

Perhaps so but, it sounds as if someone's lot in life is not determined by that person but rather by a bureaucracy.

275 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:03:48pm

re: #267 Locker

Pat Condell is the mofaking man. All time favorite.

I so love this guy.

276 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:03:53pm

re: #269 Virginia Plain

And Monty Python.

And The Office.

277 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:03:56pm

re: #245 Mad Al-Jaffee

AND fish and chips!

The original fish recipe that became fish and chips came with Portuguese Jews to England.

278 Honorary Consul General  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:04:29pm

Good day here at LGF. Gotta do some stuff. BBL.

279 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:04:50pm

re: #277 SanFranciscoZionist

The original fish recipe that became fish and chips came with Portuguese Jews to England.

It came with Portugese Jews? What, they were served as a side? :)

280 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:05:10pm

re: #163 MandyManners

Not if there is a medical reason such as as a problem with seratonin levels.

A term I use oftentimes is 'self medicating' and there's a lot of people who drink and do drugs, particularly in their teens and twenties, in an effort to feel better. For a lot of people I've known, nothing seemed to work and their efforts to figure out how to fix themselves led them to pretty high rates of drug use.

Then when you look at older generations, when depression, anxiety and PTSD were all stigmatized, particularly for men. For that generation, drinking was the way to deal with things. Again, more self medicating.

We've gotten some progress in understanding how Serotonin works in the brain, but in the end, we're still treating symptoms. But it's better than nothing. And if it keeps someone from dying, then that's a start.

(I'm not even sure I have a point here, I'm more or less musing, so please forgive if I've rambled)

281 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:05:24pm

re: #255 SanFranciscoZionist

Err...so 'general welfare' doesn't mean a health-care bill, but can mean the demolition of the Establishment Clause?

Hey, I'm just going with the flow. Go along to get along...looking out for my fellow man....caring....etc.//

282 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:05:29pm

re: #277 SanFranciscoZionist

The original fish recipe that became fish and chips came with Portuguese Jews to England.

The original Anglo-Saxon recipie was boiled porridge with fish in it...

283 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:05:44pm

re: #273 Oh no...Sand People!

She turned me into a newt! ... I got better.

284 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:05:53pm

re: #272 Fozzie Bear

Well, Jesus was essentially a zombie that promised his followers zombiehood as well.

Jewish Zombie worship is all the rage nowadays.

Image: christianityexplained001.jpg

285 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:06:23pm

re: #280 bloodstar

Your rambling made sense.

286 ryannon  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:06:43pm

re: #274 MandyManners

Perhaps so but, it sounds as if someone's lot in life is not determined by that person but rather by a bureaucracy.

Like everywhere, it can be determined by mentalities: one's own, and that of others.

But to imagine that people's lives are determined by faceless (or not) bureaucracies is simply laughable. Might as well say by cheese production or the Great Gallic Zog.

287 ShaunP  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:07:23pm

re: #270 brookly red

also there is the moral loop hole that you are not actually throwing the stones...

Is that a legal loophole? Because, I'm pretty sure I can set up a Rube Goldberg device to do my dirty work...

288 Locker  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:07:33pm

re: #268 Gus 802

Yeah, but UKIP?

[mumbles]

I had to look that up and I'm assuming he's a member and that you aren't happy about it. Personally I had no idea and it doesn't matter to me. Richard Prior could have been a flat earth, global cooling, black helicopter watching crack smoker but he was still funny as hell... just like Pat Condell.

289 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:07:44pm

re: #252 Cato the Elder

Interesting that you should mention the Thai Buddhist example. I have a friend from Thailand and she could sing you a song or two about that.

Many people just assume that Buddhists are generally more "enlightened" about such things, but the truth is much more complicated. For example, in Thailand if you want to become a fully-ordained Buddhist nun you still have to do it in secret. Whereas Catholics have had nuns ever since one can remember.

People just assume that Ancient NonWestern Traditions (TM) must suit their modern sensibilities. Often, they don't, but it's harder to find out.

Once sat on a Muni bus behind two teenage girls, one of whom was grousing to the other that she goes to the temple every weekend with her grandma, and knows all the rituals and stuff, but if her brother drops in once in a blue moon, they treat him like some kind of big deal...

Can't recall if it was Taoist or Buddhist, or if I ever figured that out. She was quite annoyed.

290 RogueOne  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:07:44pm

I'm out folks. Have a good night.

291 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:09:19pm

re: #264 Fozzie Bear

They preferred crushing people under large piles of stones. It sort of combines the burial with the death itself. Very efficient.

They only did that because the dude wouldn't enter a plea!!

/Why am I defending the Salem Witch Trials?

292 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:10:15pm

re: #291 SanFranciscoZionist

They only did that because the dude wouldn't enter a plea!!

/Why am I defending the Salem Witch Trials?

Uh..that's a defense?

293 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:10:16pm

re: #291 SanFranciscoZionist

They only did that because the dude wouldn't enter a plea!!

/Why am I defending the Salem Witch Trials?

MORE WEIGHT is not an acceptable plea in this court of law.

294 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:10:16pm

re: #287 ShaunP

Is that a legal loophole? Because, I'm pretty sure I can set up a Rube Goldberg device to do my dirty work...

not a legal loop hole no, in fact setting up the rig would be proof of pre meditation as opposed to the accidental like piling of stones...

295 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:10:59pm

re: #284 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It all makes sense now.
/

296 ShaunP  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:11:03pm

re: #294 brookly red

not a legal loop hole no, in fact setting up the rig would be proof of pre meditation as opposed to the accidental like piling of stones...

Darn...

*puts down bowling ball*

297 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:11:40pm

re: #234 lostlakehiker


[...]
This breeds a sense of futility in France, and a sense of agency in Britain.

No offense, but this is exactly the sort of anti-France propaganda that the readers of the paper nicknamed the 'Daily Torygraph' would love.
I don't doubt your memory of it, but that's how they are.

298 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:11:42pm

Apparently, there is a Christmas Carol for Zombie Jesus

Away in a graveyard, a stone overhead
The zombie lord Jesus is raised from the dead
The bones and the corpses are at his command
And rise like their master to swarm o'er the land!

The women are screaming, then running away
Poor Mary and Martha are gnawed where they lay
I fear thee, lord Jesus, your curséd undeath
With worms in your bowels and rot on your breath.

Have mercy, lord Jesus, don't eat me today
Next year I'll be bigger, I promise! I pray
Some shaman or rabbi or priestess or such
Will stake you and save us from your deadly touch.

299 Gus  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:11:54pm

Damn wind just caused the power to go off for a few seconds.

300 ryannon  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:12:43pm

re: #286 ryannon

That said, if you want to go looking for FUS (Fucked-Up Shit) in France, you'll find just as much of it as anywhere else, the UK included.

301 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:13:28pm

re: #300 ryannon

That said, if you want to go looking for FUS (Fucked-Up Shit) in France, you'll find just as much of it as anywhere else, the UK included.

But "our" FUS is always better than somebody else's FUS

302 ryannon  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:14:48pm

re: #301 ralphieboy

But "our" FUS is always better than somebody else's FUS

That's why people prefer to pick their own noses rather than someone else's.

/

303 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:15:02pm

re: #213 garhighway

Does your conclusion from your first assumption follow? Why couldn't an all-powerful creator of the universe be utterly indifferent to the activities of the various beings in it? Why does creation imply interest?

It is not even that necessarily, there is also the question of the Creator giving us "free will" which is stated over and over again in the bible. So, how do you have "free will" if God punishes you here on earth for your wrong choices?

The "Christians" who blame natural catastrophes and accidents on the "wrath of God" have never reconciled their faith, they want to see evidence of God acting in this life.

304 Gus  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:15:12pm

re: #301 ralphieboy

But "our" FUS is always better than somebody else's FUS

USA! USA! USA!

//

305 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:15:30pm

re: #302 ryannon

That's why people prefer to pick their own noses rather than someone else's.

/


Is that some kind of Jewish joke?
/

306 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:15:49pm

re: #300 ryannon

That said, if you want to go looking for FUS (Fucked-Up Shit) in France, you'll find just as much of it as anywhere else, the UK included.

Well..They know good food, wine, art and happened to be not afraid to run Nuclear Reactors...

307 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:16:13pm

re: #302 ryannon

That's why people prefer to pick their own noses rather than someone else's.

/

that is just snot right in so many ways...

308 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:16:35pm

re: #306 HoosierHoops

Well..They know good food, wine, art and happened to be not afraid to run Nuclear Reactors...

And don't forget the topless beaches! (I can always find a way to start a boob thread)

309 Renaissance_Man  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:16:38pm

re: #234 lostlakehiker

I came across an article in the British "Telegraph" newspaper about five years ago detailing the wide divergence of suicide rates in Britain and France. The article explored the subject quite carefully and came to this basic conclusion: in France, the general course of your life is largely out of your control. Your own efforts cannot jump your life out of its channel, nor will lack of effort boot you from that channel. Little things like what to have for dinner are in your control, but not much else is. In Britain, life is less secure but opportunity is wider. People feel under the gun, and they struggle to succeed. Mostly, they do succeed, to a point anyway.

Curious theory. I imagine it's one of those theories that is based more on the author's ideology than facts. In other words, if you believe that the rugged individuals of the UK are much happier than the trapped socialist serfs of France, then it follows that their suicide rate is lower.

But who knows. Maybe it's true. It would seem odd, then, that the suicide rate in the US is about double that of the UK. Maybe the British have far more opportunity than Americans too.

Or maybe complex matters like suicide rates have complex causes, that aren't easily reduced down to libertarian or other ideologies.

310 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:16:53pm

re: #307 brookly red

that is just snot right in so many ways...

Just run with it.

311 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:16:53pm

re: #304 Gus 802

USA! USA! USA!

//

FUSA!!!

312 pingjockey  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:17:04pm

I guess Rand Paul and his merry band of theocrats don't realize they sound the same as the Islamic extremists who want all law to come out of the Koran. Frakkin' mush brained asshats.

313 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:17:13pm

re: #307 brookly red

that is just snot right in so many ways...

I think you blew that one.

314 ryannon  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:17:38pm

re: #307 brookly red

that is just snot right in so many ways...

I can see that you're anything but phlegmatic about the practice.

315 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:17:44pm

re: #255 SanFranciscoZionist

Err...so 'general welfare' doesn't mean a health-care bill, but can mean the demolition of the Establishment Clause?

"general welfare" as understood at the time had to do with things such as a postal service, dredging shipping channels, establishing uniform weights and measures, etc.

Later additions in the same spirit would have been the TVA, the interstate highway system, universal inoculation against polio and other infectious diseases, [herd immunity!], the NSF, and much more.

Universal health care partly works that way; if everybody gets treated for their MRSA staph infection before it can spread, that serves the general welfare. Public education on the risks of obesity serves the general welfare.

Fancy surgery for me doesn't serve your welfare. It doesn't serve the general welfare. It serves me. I have a job and an income. The responsibility for the cost ought to be mine. Either to look ahead and buy insurance, or to just suck it up and cut spending elsewhere.

The term 'general welfare' cannot sensibly be taken to mean that the government should take a lot of everyone's income and then provide out of it a lot of common necessities. The overhead makes the project wasteful, and when people get a quota of everything, they fail to economize. Everyone ends up with more of the stuff they didn't really want, than they really want, and less of the stuff they really like, than they could have had by skimping on stuff they don't want so as to have the money for the stuff they do want.

316 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:17:55pm

re: #312 pingjockey

I guess Rand Paul and his merry band of theocrats don't realize they sound the same as the Islamic extremists who want all law to come out of the Koran. Frakkin' mush brained asshats.


Not to mention the Marxist promise that when we all become good Communists, it will herald in the Withering Away of the State

317 pingjockey  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:19:53pm

re: #316 ralphieboy
Ah yes. I don't understand these people at all.

318 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:20:34pm

re: #279 Mad Al-Jaffee

It came with Portugese Jews? What, they were served as a side? :)

It was brought to England by Portuguese Jews. Aaagh! Phrases! Phrases!

319 pingjockey  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:21:46pm

re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist
Hehe! When I first looked, I thought you wrote Pharisees'!

320 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:21:48pm

re: #297 iceweasel

No offense, but this is exactly the sort of anti-France propaganda that the readers of the paper nicknamed the 'Daily Torygraph' would love.
I don't doubt your memory of it, but that's how they are.

It was an attempt to understand a fact. They interviewed people, talked to experts, etc. The fact is that the suicide rate in France was twice that in England, this despite comparable levels of wealth and education and many broad similarities in culture, history, and demographics.

321 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:21:59pm

re: #280 bloodstar

A term I use oftentimes is 'self medicating' and there's a lot of people who drink and do drugs, particularly in their teens and twenties, in an effort to feel better. For a lot of people I've known, nothing seemed to work and their efforts to figure out how to fix themselves led them to pretty high rates of drug use.

Then when you look at older generations, when depression, anxiety and PTSD were all stigmatized, particularly for men. For that generation, drinking was the way to deal with things. Again, more self medicating.

We've gotten some progress in understanding how Serotonin works in the brain, but in the end, we're still treating symptoms. But it's better than nothing. And if it keeps someone from dying, then that's a start.

(I'm not even sure I have a point here, I'm more or less musing, so please forgive if I've rambled)

I've been diagnosed w/clinical depression. They give me pills.

My father, grandfather, grgrandfather, etc., were probably depressive too.

They drank. My dad still drinks, but is starting to get some suitable drugs.

322 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:22:04pm

re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist

It was brought to England by Portuguese Jews. Aaagh! Phrases! Phrases!

yeah but by the time it got there it was cold and soggy... that is the problem with take out.

323 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:25:15pm

re: #306 HoosierHoops

Well..They know good food, wine, art and happened to be not afraid to run Nuclear Reactors...

Created the modern perfume industry, and most of its best products...

324 pingjockey  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:25:16pm

BBIAB, lunch.

325 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:26:15pm

re: #312 pingjockey

I guess Rand Paul and his merry band of theocrats don't realize they sound the same as the Islamic extremists who want all law to come out of the Koran. Frakkin' mush brained asshats.

Like the Islamic extremists, they believe that their version will be better than anyone else's.

326 Radical Rafe  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:26:27pm
...which is inexplicably mixed with fundamentalist Christianity...

Actually, the explanation for it seems obvious; I think the applicable word here is "inextricably"

in·ex·tri·ca·ble   /ɪnˈɛkstrɪkəbəl, ˌɪnɪkˈstrɪkə-/ Show Spelled[in-ek-stri-kuh-buhl, in-ik-strik-uh-]
–adjective
1.from which one cannot extricate oneself: an inextricable maze.
2.incapable of being disentangled, undone, loosed, or solved: an inextricable knot.
3.hopelessly intricate, involved, or perplexing: inextricable confusion.

327 Fozzie Bear  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:26:49pm

re: #325 SanFranciscoZionist

Utopia! Only this time it will work! We swear!

328 webevintage  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:26:55pm

IF ONLY EVRYONE WUD WORSHIP CEILIN KAT PEEPS WUD PULAY NICE AN HAS ALL TEH CHEEZ BURGERS WE WANTD.

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:26:58pm

re: #315 lostlakehiker

"general welfare" as understood at the time had to do with things such as a postal service, dredging shipping channels, establishing uniform weights and measures, etc.

Later additions in the same spirit would have been the TVA, the interstate highway system, universal inoculation against polio and other infectious diseases, [herd immunity!], the NSF, and much more.

Universal health care partly works that way; if everybody gets treated for their MRSA staph infection before it can spread, that serves the general welfare. Public education on the risks of obesity serves the general welfare.

Fancy surgery for me doesn't serve your welfare. It doesn't serve the general welfare. It serves me. I have a job and an income. The responsibility for the cost ought to be mine. Either to look ahead and buy insurance, or to just suck it up and cut spending elsewhere.

The term 'general welfare' cannot sensibly be taken to mean that the government should take a lot of everyone's income and then provide out of it a lot of common necessities. The overhead makes the project wasteful, and when people get a quota of everything, they fail to economize. Everyone ends up with more of the stuff they didn't really want, than they really want, and less of the stuff they really like, than they could have had by skimping on stuff they don't want so as to have the money for the stuff they do want.

I see the point of that comment was utterly lost in the din.

330 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:27:49pm

re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist

my sister the shrink some times tells her clients, no you are not depressed your life really dose suck. It is really hard to get good drugs outta her.

331 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:27:57pm

re: #319 pingjockey

Hehe! When I first looked, I thought you wrote Pharisees'!

No, they've never bothered me. Except for UJA, but you can't escape UJA. In this world or the next.

332 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:28:11pm

re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist

It was brought to England by Portuguese Jews. Aaagh! Phrases! Phrases!

I know, I was joking. I think for dinner I'm going to have to go to the Irish pub across the street and get their fish and chips. At least my appetite is coming back.

333 ryannon  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:28:20pm

re: #323 SanFranciscoZionist

Created the modern perfume industry, and most of its best products...

And a deliciously uncomplicated attitude towards sex.

334 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:29:32pm

re: #333 ryannon

And a deliciously uncomplicated attitude towards sex.

sex was never complicated, it the afterwards that is complicated.

335 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:30:13pm

re: #329 SanFranciscoZionist

I see the point of that comment was utterly lost in the din.

That's why you don't store your points in the din. I usually store mine in the upper left corner of the fray. Much easier to find them there.

336 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:33:29pm

re: #333 ryannon

And a deliciously uncomplicated attitude towards sex.


That sums it up: the British cling to life in the hope of finally getting laid. The French get laid, realize it wasnÄt that great and decide to end it all.

But beyond that, it's national character: the British hang on doggedly and persevere even if they are getting beaten out of sheer bloody-mindedness. The French have always known when it is time to surrender.

///

337 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:33:56pm

re: #320 lostlakehiker

It was an attempt to understand a fact. They interviewed people, talked to experts, etc. The fact is that the suicide rate in France was twice that in England, this despite comparable levels of wealth and education and many broad similarities in culture, history, and demographics.

It does sound like a fairly ideologically-agreeable conclusion was reached, though, especially in light of the fact that the U.S., Australia, Canada and New Zealand all have substantially higher suicide rates than the UK.

338 ryannon  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:34:42pm

re: #320 lostlakehiker

It was an attempt to understand a fact. They interviewed people, talked to experts, etc. The fact is that the suicide rate in France was twice that in England, this despite comparable levels of wealth and education and many broad similarities in culture, history, and demographics.

My explanation is that a series of technocratic and catastrophic campaigns of 'modernization' and 'rationalization' of what was until recently the last great agrarian (i.e., traditional and traditionalist) society of Western Europe produced a series of collective and individual traumas that were demoralizing to the point of provoking suicide.

It's as plain as the nose on one's face, and backed up by a great deal of evidence.

339 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:35:15pm

re: #335 Slumbering Behemoth

That's why you don't store your points in the din. I usually store mine in the upper left corner of the fray. Much easier to find them there.

LOL.

I really hope we sell enough Volume 2 to try to do a Volume 3.
I'm capturing a number of great comments that would be PERFECT for Volume 3.

Volume 2 is very reasonably priced at $16.35 per copy (plus shipping is a hair less than $4).

It's a great book, and honestly, it should be a gen-u-wine collector's item in a few years.

Each sale produces a "profit" of $5, which (decided by vote) is split, half to LGF and half to Soldier's Angels.

That is a tiny amount to show your appreciation for Charles and LGF and the wonderful features here! Have you checked the new "Pages" feature? Pretty spectacular, and getting better every day.

340 cliffster  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:36:00pm

I can almost see you now
Is my imagination fooling me somehow?
Flying through the lining of a silver cloud?
I swear I can see you now

341 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:37:13pm

re: #340 cliffster

I can almost see you now
Is my imagination fooling me somehow?
Flying through the lining of a silver cloud?
I swear I can see you now

/huh... see that is why I won't mix Chantix & Zyban...

342 cliffster  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:38:05pm

re: #341 brookly red

/huh... see that is why I won't mix Chantix & Zyban...

Shelby Lynne rocks

343 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:39:35pm

Archaeologist Tired Of Unearthing Unspeakable Ancient Evils

HASAKE, SYRIA—When archaeologist Edward Whitson joined a Penn State University dig in Hasake last year, he did so to participate in the excavation of a Late Bronze Age settlement rich in pottery shards and clay figurines. Whitson had hoped to determine whether the items contained within the site were primarily Persian or Assyrian in origin.

Instead, he found himself fleeing giant flying demon-cats as he ran through the temple's cavernous halls, jumping from ledge to ledge while locked in a desperate struggle for his life and soul for what seemed like the thousandth time in his 27-year career.

344 ryannon  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:40:08pm

re: #333 ryannon

And a deliciously uncomplicated attitude towards sex.

Somewhere in the ether, I can feel many Lizard minds contemplating this phrase...

345 cliffster  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:41:45pm

re: #326 Radical Rafe

Actually, the explanation for it seems obvious; I think the applicable word here is "inextricably"

in·ex·tri·ca·ble  ;  /ɪnˈɛkstrɪkəbə ;l, ˌɪnɪkˈstrɪkə-/ Show Spelled[in-ek-stri-kuh-buhl, in-ik-strik-uh-]
–adjective
1.from which one cannot extricate oneself: an inextricable maze.
2.incapable of being disentangled, undone, loosed, or solved: an inextricable knot.
3.hopelessly intricate, involved, or perplexing: inextricable confusion.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word
itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words -
"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean ? It's a mystery, and that's
why so is mankind.

346 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:41:58pm

It is lines like this that I remind any non-Christian who is interested in the GOP to get a serious clue.

This also applies to any mainstream Christian.

Shall we dissect the BS?

If everyone were Christian, we would not need laws.

ON the outset, let's be fair. If by that you mean that everyone lived a Christ like life, and took care of the poor, fed the hungry, opposed corruption in government, despised wealth, gave up greed and always did what was moral and just - i.e. the ideal of Christian in terms of social justice, there would indeed be no crime. Everyone would work together and share whatever they had. People would love each other like brothers and sisters. No one would be forgotten or left to suffer. No one would take crazy risks with dangerous technology that would endanger others for mere profit.

Hmmmm... Sounds Utopian. Sounds even almost communist.

Well at least a Libertarian or Republican would call such things utopian and communist. That whole social justice thing in the Bible really comes to bite them in the ass. Of course they are too blind to see it. And of course, this is not what he means.

What he really means is that if everyone believed in the twisted view of Christianity that he has, then the economic theories he holds would not be questioned and he would not have to worry about making any laws that would get in the way of racism or corporate corruption.

347 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:47:45pm

re: #346 LudwigVanQuixote

Like I mentioned, Marx promised that when we all become good Communists, the state will wither away.

These convergences are just scary sometimes...

348 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:52:53pm

re: #346 LudwigVanQuixote

On a side note..I checked out the Village of the Damned this morning and they were pissing and moaning that we chat about Chess..Of all fucking things to trash you and I about...Got quite the giggle from that..Somebody said we only use a Queen on the board.. Really? 3rd grade bullshit
I'm not sure if I want to play a nice game of Chess with somebody from there or meet up in a dark bar for a nice chat...
/There is no Bottom over there.. I check every week how far they can sink...

349 _RememberTonyC  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:53:54pm

In her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.

The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US
resident, which was posted on the Internet.


Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I
have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination .. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other
elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male
and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is
in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is
how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it
creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my
neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite
them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to
kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses.
Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the
hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig
makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two
different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy
considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and
unchanging.

Your adoring fan.

James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus, Dept. Of Curriculum,
Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

(It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian :)

350 What, me worry?  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:56:35pm

re: #349 _RememberTonyC

hehe Heya lizards.

I was looking for that to send to Dr. Paul. I think he would appreciate it.

351 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:57:05pm

re: #349 _RememberTonyC

At least Christians received the teaching that the laws of the Hebrews did not apply to them. But Dr. Laura better not be caught wearing a polyester mix!

352 _RememberTonyC  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:58:24pm

Thanks Lizards .... gotta run to a meeting ...... BBL!

353 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 1:59:06pm

re: #351 ralphieboy

At least Christians received the teaching that the laws of the Hebrews did not apply to them. But Dr. Laura better not be caught wearing a polyester mix!

Or white after Labor Day!

354 bratwurst  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:00:22pm

re: #349 _RememberTonyC

I think the first time that was posted, it was done with a 1200 baud modem.

355 cliffster  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:01:35pm

re: #349 _RememberTonyC

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is
in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is
how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

oh, you can tell

356 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:03:15pm

re: #355 cliffster

oh, you can tell

How? Having a quarter pound of chocolate shoved up your nose for asking?

Is that really such a dead giveaway?

357 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:03:38pm

re: #351 ralphieboy

At least Christians received the teaching that the laws of the Hebrews did not apply to them. But Dr. Laura better not be caught wearing a polyester mix!

Poly mixes are fine. It's wool/linen mixes that are the issue.

358 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:04:39pm

re: #348 HoosierHoops

On a side note..I checked out the Village of the Damned this morning and they were pissing and moaning that we chat about Chess..Of all fucking things to trash you and I about...Got quite the giggle from that..Somebody said we only use a Queen on the board.. Really? 3rd grade bullshit
I'm not sure if I want to play a nice game of Chess with somebody from there or meet up in a dark bar for a nice chat...
/There is no Bottom over there.. I check every week how far they can sink...

Oh my....

Well I am sure the experts over there, who after all, know that in real physics, vacuums conduct and convect heat, energy is not conserved and that no-one needs to look at actual numbers to make a coherent scientific argument, are equally expert in chess.

I recommend against playing one of them though honestly. First off, they are the types who would think that Scholar's Mate is their secret weapon.

Second off, they are the sorts to toss the board and scream you are a liberal, progressive, tranzi, fascist for putting them in check.

Now all of that said. How about the real fact that they do not think that BP management should be tried for gross criminal negligence?

How about the fact that they honestly love Rand Paul and go on and on about how unfairly victimized they are by black and brown people?

How about the fact that they frequently call for all Muslims to be abused or even murdered?

How about the fact that they honestly do believe that there is no separation of Church and State and support the Texas BOE?

Ohhh and then there is the endless posturing and puffing up of their thickly breasted man chests? Threats? Calls to violence? Endless whining and mewling?

The bottom line is that they are not just evil, but they are spoiled little delusional children trapped in grown flabby bodies. It is one whiny temper tantrum after another. Children that fussy and irrational are usually disciplined.

The far right has brought that whiny, frightened, fat, greedy, spoiled baby out of so much of America, by convincing them of a false entitlement and scary bedtime stories.

The village of the banned is a good indicator of where the far right is. Not the talking heads, but rather the rank and file fat heads.

359 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:04:42pm

President Josiah Bartlet: Good. I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an abomination.

Dr. Jenna Jacobs: I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.

President Josiah Bartlet: Yes it does. Leviticus.

Dr. Jenna Jacobs: 18:22.

President Josiah Bartlet: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I have you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?

While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police?

Here's one that's really important because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point?

Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?

One last thing: while you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tight-Ass Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits.

360 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:04:53pm

re: #354 bratwurst

While riding a dinosaur through the Arby's drive thru!

361 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:04:57pm

re: #357 SanFranciscoZionist

Poly mixes are fine. It's wool/linen mixes that are the issue.


Is this because polyester was unknown to Hebrews?

362 What, me worry?  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:05:11pm

re: #346 LudwigVanQuixote

The first thing that struck me after reading that were the Crusades because almost all of Europe was Christian at the time. And what a lovely peaceful time it was..... ugh.

I'm pretty much convinced at this point that Rand is a racist against anything that is not white and Christian. People who truly do not harbor resentment against "outsiders" do not make statements like his.

363 cliffster  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:05:33pm

re: #356 EmmmieG

How? Having a quarter pound of chocolate shoved up your nose for asking?

Is that really such a dead giveaway?

that would do it

364 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:05:45pm

re: #357 SanFranciscoZionist

Poly mixes are fine. It's wool/linen mixes that are the issue.

I generally don't care for these 'funny laws from the OT' routines, since they're based on an essential misunderstanding of how Tanach is meant to be read--but if you're gonna be literalist, you may as well have to deal with literal questions.

365 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:06:12pm
366 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:07:14pm

re: #362 marjoriemoon

The first thing that struck me after reading that were the Crusades because almost all of Europe was Christian at the time. And what a lovely peaceful time it was... ugh.

I'm pretty much convinced at this point that Rand is a racist against anything that is not white and Christian. People who truly do not harbor resentment against "outsiders" do not make statements like his.


Ahem, they were all Catholics back then, and I have heard it argued enough times that those people were and are not True Christians (TM)

367 What, me worry?  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:07:23pm

re: #359 SanFranciscoZionist

I loved that one!

368 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:07:46pm

re: #361 ralphieboy

Is this because polyester was unknown to Hebrews?

Possibly, but the wool/linen blend had ritual significance, whereas polyester, even if it had been available, has no particular ritual importance.

369 webevintage  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:09:25pm

re: #359 SanFranciscoZionist

One last thing: while you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tight-Ass Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits.


THAT was such a brillant scene.....

BTW Beck just said we have corruption in this country worse then we have EVER SEEN IT!!!! and the commies are rearing their heads and are church's are dying out because they stand for nothing!!!!
It is all the fault of Progressives that people don't go to church anymore.
Make your pastor teach between individual rights and collective rights or the next thing you know we will be fucking revolutionary France cutting off the heads of the Becks of the world.!!!!11111!!!!!
THIS is what the enemy of FREEDOM want!!!111!!!!!!

370 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:09:31pm

re: #366 ralphieboy

Ahem, they were all Catholics back then, and I have heard it argued enough times that those people were and are not True Christians (TM)

I once met a man who went to Lithuania, to convert the people there to Christianity. Having had the idea that Saint Casimir took care of that around 1000 AD, I asked what faith they were presently following.

"Catholicism."

371 What, me worry?  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:09:38pm

re: #366 ralphieboy

Ahem, they were all Catholics back then, and I have heard it argued enough times that those people were and are not True Christians (TM)

Oh dear, I've opened that can of worms before and it didn't end so well.

372 Daniel Ballard  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:09:57pm

re: #359 SanFranciscoZionist

I still miss west wing.

373 webevintage  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:10:14pm

Oh and BILL AYERS and ACORN!!!111!!!

374 webevintage  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:11:29pm

Why you would ask am I watching Beck....ugh, my son thinks it is a hilarious form of entertainment to yell back at Glenn.

375 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:14:16pm

CATO,, if you're here, Cambridge University could use your assistance!!

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

//

376 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:14:38pm

re: #349 _RememberTonyC

This is a case of an odious person (Dr. Laura) who should not be speaking for Judaism, prompting a legitimately angry but deeply ill-informed response.

Each of those points has a tremendous number of caveats to them. The Bible - particularly in Judaism is NOT a literal reading of King James. Honestly, much confusion would be removed if people saw King James as a distinct book from the Torah and the Nach - as distinct as the Koran or the Rig Veda.

This is not an insult to King James or people who see it as their Book. However, it can not be used to counter Jewish Law because, by selective translation and rejection of the Oral Law, it is completely divorced from actual Jewish Law.

For example, slavery is a mistranslation. It was actually a form of indenture with very strong protections on the indentured servant. There were many ways one could find oneself in that position. There were no prisons of the time in the modern sense, so the court could order someone into a period of servitude to pay off damages.

IN the case of a daughter, the idea was that she would be promised to the son of the wealthy man who took her in as a servant. When she came of age, she had the right to decide she did not want to marry the boy. During the period of her indenture, if she were molested in anyway, there were very stiff penalties to the master of the house - including a financial settlement for the girl and removing her from the house.

In an age where there was no welfare, this was an attempt to see to it that poor children were cared for. This was a form of adoption.

Whether or not you consider it a good system or the best system to care for children who would otherwise be left is another issue. It was however not at all the egregious system that selling her into slavery implies. The word is servant, not slave.

377 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:15:46pm

This is hysterical.

"Lost" reenacted by Cats in one minute.

378 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:15:58pm

It's just about Guinness time. See you all later!

379 cliffster  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:16:34pm

With all due respect, it kinda makes me laugh, all these people pissed about the ending of Lost. Er, what did you expect??

380 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:16:46pm

re: #376 LudwigVanQuixote

This is a case of an odious person (Dr. Laura) who should not be speaking for Judaism, prompting a legitimately angry but deeply ill-informed response.

Each of those points has a tremendous number of caveats to them. The Bible - particularly in Judaism is NOT a literal reading of King James. Honestly, much confusion would be removed if people saw King James as a distinct book from the Torah and the Nach - as distinct as the Koran or the Rig Veda.

This is not an insult to King James or people who see it as their Book. However, it can not be used to counter Jewish Law because, by selective translation and rejection of the Oral Law, it is completely divorced from actual Jewish Law.

For example, slavery is a mistranslation. It was actually a form of indenture with very strong protections on the indentured servant. There were many ways one could find oneself in that position. There were no prisons of the time in the modern sense, so the court could order someone into a period of servitude to pay off damages.

IN the case of a daughter, the idea was that she would be promised to the son of the wealthy man who took her in as a servant. When she came of age, she had the right to decide she did not want to marry the boy. During the period of her indenture, if she were molested in anyway, there were very stiff penalties to the master of the house - including a financial settlement for the girl and removing her from the house.

In an age where there was no welfare, this was an attempt to see to it that poor children were cared for. This was a form of adoption.

Whether or not you consider it a good system or the best system to care for children who would otherwise be left is another issue. It was however not at all the egregious system that selling her into slavery implies. The word is servant, not slave.

Thank you, Ludwig. Excellent clarifications--but beyond that, I do see these shticks as a way of pointing out that such people are at time obsessively literal with the KJV, and at other times ignore it completely.

Hence such sites as godhatesshrimp.com.

381 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:17:05pm

re: #364 SanFranciscoZionist

I generally don't care for these 'funny laws from the OT' routines, since they're based on an essential misunderstanding of how Tanach is meant to be read--but if you're gonna be literalist, you may as well have to deal with literal questions.

I learn so much from you...
That's why God's Word in a book and God's Science is never to meet....
Look If I was in the Desert with Moses for a couple of Months and had a GPS device, A Toyota jeep full of Saudi oil..Every Jew in the world would be following our tire tracks home to Jerusalem ...I think God loves Science..Since he invented it and all...And gave us brains to explore it.

382 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:18:10pm

re: #380 SanFranciscoZionist

Thank you, Ludwig. Excellent clarifications--but beyond that, I do see these shticks as a way of pointing out that such people are at time obsessively literal with the KJV, and at other times ignore it completely.

Hence such sites as godhatesshrimp.com.


Then I can have indentured servants from Canada?

383 Kragar  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:18:44pm

Videos don't seem to be working.

384 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:19:07pm

re: #382 ralphieboy

Then I can have indentured servants from Canada Russian?


/Have you seen the websites?

385 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:19:33pm

re: #383 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Videos don't seem to be working.

Ok here

re-boot maybe?

386 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:19:37pm

re: #349 _RememberTonyC

In her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.

Laura Schlessinger's popularity as a religious talk show host went to the crapper after she was outed snacking on shrimp and other non-kosher goodies.

387 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:19:58pm

re: #379 cliffster

With all due respect, it kinda makes me laugh, all these people pissed about the ending of Lost. Er, what did you expect??

Well, The Sopranos did pretty well.

388 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:20:38pm

re: #384 HoosierHoops

Then I can have indentured servants from Canada Russian Brazil

/Have you seen the websites?

ftfy both

389 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:21:18pm

re: #382 ralphieboy

Then I can have indentured servants from Canada?

Sorry dude. The law of the land is the law. The United States is raining on your parade.

..

..
..

OK, you can have ONE indentured Canadian.

390 cliffster  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:21:26pm

re: #387 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, The Sopranos did pretty well.

True, but that one came out of left field. Based on what little I saw of Lost, it was pretty whacked out the whole time.

391 webevintage  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:21:40pm

re: #377 Cato the Elder

This is hysterical.

"Lost" reenacted by Cats in one minute.
[Video]


My 2 favorite things.
Kittahs and LOST.

392 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:22:52pm

re: #391 webevintage

My 2 favorite things.
Kittahs and LOST.

you really have to get out more!!!

//

393 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:22:54pm

re: #379 cliffster

With all due respect, it kinda makes me laugh, all these people pissed about the ending of Lost. Er, what did you expect??

Gilligan would marry Maryann and settle into a life of many doobies and perfect children? The Professor would bag Ginger, then leave her for real science and Ginger would end up in porn?? Mr.and Mr. Howell would fund The Heritage Foundation? The Skipper would be the unofficial Mayor of The Castro?

How did it end, was it all a dream?

394 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:23:05pm

re: #386 Alouette

Laura Schlessinger's popularity as a religious talk show host went to the crapper after she was outed snacking on shrimp and other non-kosher goodies.

A friend of mine, a devout Christian, once called me up and said, "So, Dr. Laura. Does she make you feel kind of the way Pat Robertson makes me feel?"

She (Dr. Laura, not my friend) ragged on Reform Jews for years, and then decided being Jewish was too boring and quit. I have issues.

395 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:23:48pm

re: #376 LudwigVanQuixote

The word is servant, not slave.

The word "servant" comes directly from Latin "servus" - which means slave.

396 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:24:25pm

re: #393 Jeff In Ohio

How did it end, was it all a dream

No , that was the season that Dallas didn't have Bobby!!

397 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:24:46pm

re: #390 cliffster

True, but that one came out of left field. Based on what little I saw of Lost, it was pretty whacked out the whole time.

I have an idea...There should never be a final show... M*A*S*H, Lost, Sapronos whatever..You make a final movie that ties up everything and make 300 million dollars...Everybody would want to go to the Theater and you would make a fortune...
/Somebody get my agent on line 2!

398 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:25:27pm

re: #395 Cato the Elder

The word "servant" comes directly from Latin "servus" - which means slave.

So when I go to my favorite restaurant(s) and ask the Maitre D' who is going to serve us, I'm asking for a slave!?!?!

cool!!!

399 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:25:47pm

re: #395 Cato the Elder

The word "servant" comes directly from Latin "servus" - which means slave.

As in the American service industry?

400 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:26:01pm

re: #397 HoosierHoops

I have an idea...There should never be a final show... M*A*S*H, Lost, Sapronos whatever..You make a final movie that ties up everything and make 300 million dollars...Everybody would want to go to the Theater and you would make a fortune...
/Somebody get my agent on line 2!

That's what Joss Whedon did after Fox killed "Firefly".

401 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:27:23pm

re: #398 sattv4u2

So when I go to my favorite restaurant(s) and ask the Maitre D' who is going to serve us, I'm asking for a slave!?!?!

cool!!!

No, you're asking for an art student. Or an actor.

402 cliffster  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:28:26pm

re: #397 HoosierHoops

I have an idea...There should never be a final show... M*A*S*H, Lost, Sapronos whatever..You make a final movie that ties up everything and make 300 million dollars...Everybody would want to go to the Theater and you would make a fortune...
/Somebody get my agent on line 2!

Too late, I'm already stealing your idea. Sucker.

Even funnier would be to schedule the show, have it in the listings, but when the time comes, you show some infomercial instead. People are expecting final episode of Seinfeld, and they get a 30 minute Bowflex ad. I can see people cursing, flipping channels, calling the station..

That's of course if you're in it for the post-modern comedy aspect, not for the profit aspect.

403 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:31:21pm

re: #382 ralphieboy

Then I can have indentured servants from Canada?

Well if you agree to the following conditions from the actual Jewish Law:

1. They are to be well fed - before you eat and to the same standard that you eat.

2. They are to be given shelter and clothing to the standard of your house. In other words, if you can afford silks and finery for yourself, they are not to be seen in rags and further, if you are to make a discretionary luxury purchase on your own clothing, you are to use those funds on their upkeep first. This is in line with the commandment of feeding the poor and clothing the naked.

3. You are absolutely prohibited from using them sexually - unless you marry them.

4. You will set them free, with parting wages after their period of indenture is up.

5. You will not cause them permanent injury or give them tasks that would seriously risk permanent injury.

6. If they are seriously injured when working for you, they are compensated by you - and usually immediately set free. If you are found negligent and can not pay the damages in such a case, the court might make you a servant to someone else to pay off your debt.

7. You have to have a functioning Beit Din (Jewish Court) that has such jurisdiction over you and the Canadian in question. Since civil law supercedes the authority of the Beit Din in such cases (and this is acknowledged by the Beit Din and has been since the Diaspora) the entire discussion is moot.

404 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:31:53pm

Local news ,, you gotta luv it

Anchor asks if subject is enjoying penis more!!

405 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:32:29pm

re: #395 Cato the Elder

The word "servant" comes directly from Latin "servus" - which means slave.

The word is ehved in Hebrew and it is not a slave at all. A maid or a butler or a farm hand is a servant, but not a slave.

406 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:32:45pm

re: #400 Cato the Elder

That's what Joss Whedon did after Fox killed "Firefly".

Note to self: Google Firefly
If you have a hugely successful 4-6 year run on TV I think the final should be a movie.. Think Friends or Steinfield or a full length Sapronos movie...
You would have to go to the movie if you were a fan...
To see the ending....in a full featured film...
And since everything is always about money...Why make 25 million instead of 300 million?
/Hold on..Cell phone is ringing...It's a SOCAL Area code...
*wink*

407 cliffster  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:33:11pm

re: #404 sattv4u2

I saw that. It makes me physically uncomfortable to watch

408 zora  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:33:18pm

a chuck devore ad from the california senate race.

DeVore's "24"-Inspired Ad: What Would Jack Bauer Do?

hard to believe this is ad is real.

409 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:33:42pm

re: #405 LudwigVanQuixote

The word is ehved in Hebrew and it is not a slave at all. A maid or a butler or a farm hand is a servant, but not a slave.

But the ancient Israelites did have actual slaves too, did they not?

What is the Hebrew word for "slave"?

410 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:34:04pm

re: #403 LudwigVanQuixote

Well if you agree to the following conditions from the actual Jewish Law:

1. They are to be well fed - before you eat and to the same standard that you eat.

2. They are to be given shelter and clothing to the standard of your house. In other words, if you can afford silks and finery for yourself, they are not to be seen in rags and further, if you are to make a discretionary luxury purchase on your own clothing, you are to use those funds on their upkeep first. This is in line with the commandment of feeding the poor and clothing the naked.

3. You are absolutely prohibited from using them sexually - unless you marry them.

4. You will set them free, with parting wages after their period of indenture is up.

5. You will not cause them permanent injury or give them tasks that would seriously risk permanent injury.

6. If they are seriously injured when working for you, they are compensated by you - and usually immediately set free. If you are found negligent and can not pay the damages in such a case, the court might make you a servant to someone else to pay off your debt.

7. You have to have a functioning Beit Din (Jewish Court) that has such jurisdiction over you and the Canadian in question. Since civil law supercedes the authority of the Beit Din in such cases (and this is acknowledged by the Beit Din and has been since the Diaspora) the entire discussion is moot.


Forget, I'm gonna get me a Mexican


/

411 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:34:32pm

re: #407 cliffster

I saw that. It makes me physically uncomfortable to watch

The news anchor in the middle was also

You can see her literally stop all motion and just stare at the guy, unable to say anythong for a moment

412 cliffster  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:35:04pm

re: #411 sattv4u2

there's brain farts and then there's... that

413 Jadespring  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:37:50pm

re: #411 sattv4u2

The news anchor in the middle was also

You can see her literally stop all motion and just stare at the guy, unable to say anythong for a moment

What was he supposed to say? (I can't watch the video)

414 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:37:50pm
415 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:37:52pm

re: #412 cliffster

there's brain farts and then there's... that

Well , there was this CNN anchor

[Link: www.ebaumsworld.com...]

416 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:39:32pm

re: #413 Jadespring

What was he supposed to say? (I can't watch the video)

The story was about the new "Viagra" drug for women (the "G" shot)

He says ",,, so she's enjoying penis a little more, is she"

417 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:40:24pm

and one from a weatherman

418 Jadespring  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:42:39pm

re: #416 sattv4u2

The story was about the new "Viagra" drug for women (the "G" shot)

He says ",,, so she's enjoying penis a little more, is she"

Oh my..... o.0

419 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:43:00pm

re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist

I've been diagnosed w/clinical depression. They give me pills.

My father, grandfather, grgrandfather, etc., were probably depressive too.

They drank. My dad still drinks, but is starting to get some suitable drugs.

He should not be drinking at all with those "Suitable drugs" unless he is getting nothing stronger than Lithium. Not only does it ruin your liver rather quickly it can also cause major malfunctions in your brain processes, their are also an entire other host of contraindications. It is either drinking or the drugs, you can't do both and expect to live for very long.

Then again if you really don't care? (Which is unfortunately a frequent attitude of the people who actually need these medications). :(

420 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:44:01pm

re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist

No, you're asking for an art student. Or an actor.

A group of us from a radiological protection class in San Antonio did the Alamo visit one night. We piled into the horse-drawn carriage, and the guide/driver did his spiel. To chat us up, he asked where we were from, and one of the margarita-
enabled ladies told him all about the class and mentioned Avogadro's Number. The guide, who watches a horse's ass all day, came back with "6.0221415 × 1023".

421 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:44:23pm

re: #411 sattv4u2

The news anchor in the middle was also

You can see her literally stop all motion and just stare at the guy, unable to say anythong for a moment

Paging Dr. Freud.

422 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:44:47pm

re: #419 ausador

He should not be drinking at all with those "Suitable drugs" unless he is getting nothing stronger than Lithium. Not only does it ruin your liver rather quickly it can also cause major malfunctions in your brain processes, their are also an entire other host of contraindications. It is either drinking or the drugs, you can't do both and expect to live for very long.

Then again if you really don't care? (Which is unfortunately a frequent attitude of the people who actually need these medications). :(

I'm kind of having to trust his doctors as we work through this.

423 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:46:37pm

re: #409 Cato the Elder

But the ancient Israelites did have actual slaves too, did they not?

What is the Hebrew word for "slave"?

The phrase you are looking for is ehved Caanani. These were enemy soldiers captured in battle from the early wars with the surrounding tribes. There are many restrictions on mistreating them as well, however, as prisoners of war, they were subject to hard labor. They were also not to be indentured for a period of longer than seven years.

The law for them too is that they are set free and compensated if injured. They too must be well fed and sheltered. The Jewish law on this would certainly be in line with the standards of the modern enlightened POW camps.

Judaism never had a notion of lifelong chattle slavery of the sort that the word slave conjures up to the modern mind. They did not even have a chattle system like that of the Greeks or the Romans.

Now, as tot he actual history, one of the biggest splits between Pharisee (the people who kept the actual Jewish law and Rabbinic tradition) and the Sadducees (Hellenized and Romanized land owners and priests) was the fact that in the times of the Roman occupation, the Sadducim practiced actual chattle slavery. There was a great deal of violence as a result of this. Jews would literally raid wealthy homes and set the slaves free.

424 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:47:28pm

re: #421 MandyManners

Paging Dr. Freud.

I'm still thinking about this from this morning!!

Image: sofia-vergara.jpg

425 freetoken  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:49:01pm

re: #414 Killgore Trout

More trouble for the Vatican...
Priest Accused Of Abusing Boy, Turning Home Into 'Erotic Dungeon' Surrenders To Police

Nah, no problems for the Vatican. They will show this as being yet another example of the evils of homosexuality. Teh ghey is the real root of all evil.

426 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:49:22pm

re: #423 LudwigVanQuixote

I believe there is a talmudic reference to travailing with one's slave and having only one pillow. The slave gets the pillow.

427 Mich-again  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:50:23pm
we wouldn’t really need laws in this country if everyone were a good Christian:

Good luck finding anyone who would qualify as a good Christian.

428 dauntlessone  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:50:23pm

How does she get the headline quote from this statement?

"I'm a Christian. We go to the Presbyterian Church. My wife’s a Deacon there and we’ve gone there ever since we came to town. I see that Christianity and values is the basis of our society. . . . 98% of us won’t murder people, won’t steal, won’t break the law and it helps a society to have that religious underpinning. You still need to have the laws but I think it helps to have a people who believe in law and order and who have a moral compass or a moral basis for their day to day life."

If he actually said "We wouldn't need laws if everyone were Christian", that is kooky. Please point out if I am incorrect. Also please point out what is unreasonable about the long quote.

429 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:50:43pm

Oh, ugh!

From the oilspill twitter feed that webevintage posted in "Pages" -
39 photos showing just how awful this thing is.

And it's only going to get worse; there seems to be no end in sight for getting this thing sealed off.

430 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:52:32pm

re: #429 reine.de.tout

Oh, ugh!

From the oilspill twitter feed that webevintage posted in "Pages" -
39 photos showing just how awful this thing is.

And it's only going to get worse; there seems to be no end in sight for getting this thing sealed off.

I heard today the best course of action is a parralel releif well but they won;t be able to do that till August. No explanation as to why

I can only surmise getting the rigging in place. Any thoughts?

431 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:53:22pm

re: #423 LudwigVanQuixote

The phrase you are looking for is ehved Caanani. These were enemy soldiers captured in battle from the early wars with the surrounding tribes. There are many restrictions on mistreating them as well, however, as prisoners of war, they were subject to hard labor. They were also not to be indentured for a period of longer than seven years.

The law for them too is that they are set free and compensated if injured. They too must be well fed and sheltered. The Jewish law on this would certainly be in line with the standards of the modern enlightened POW camps.

Judaism never had a notion of lifelong chattle slavery of the sort that the word slave conjures up to the modern mind. They did not even have a chattle system like that of the Greeks or the Romans.

Now, as tot he actual history, one of the biggest splits between Pharisee (the people who kept the actual Jewish law and Rabbinic tradition) and the Sadducees (Hellenized and Romanized land owners and priests) was the fact that in the times of the Roman occupation, the Sadducim practiced actual chattle slavery. There was a great deal of violence as a result of this. Jews would literally raid wealthy homes and set the slaves free.

According to Wiktionary, עבד all by itself can mean several things, including "slave".

I think you are making things sound better than they probably were in actual life.

Etymology

From Proto-Semitic *ʿabd-. Formed from the root ע־ב־ד (`-b-d).
[edit] Pronunciation

* (Modern Israeli) IPA: /ˈeved/

[edit] Noun

עֶבֶד (éved)

1. A slave, a serf.
2. (archaic) A servant, a worshipper (of G-d).

432 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:53:25pm

re: #426 Bagua

I believe there is a talmudic reference to travailing with one's slave and having only one pillow. The slave gets the pillow.

That is absolutely correct. Good show. But aain the entire use of the word slave conjures up the wrong image of what the system was.

In general, people would be sold into servitude to pay of debts or damages. The person would sell their services and use the proceeds to pay off their debts.

It is also important to note that the slave owns his own property. His clothing is his clothing for example.

433 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:53:41pm

re: #424 sattv4u2

I'm still thinking about this from this morning!!

Image: sofia-vergara.jpg

I can certainly understand that, but I need to study those pictures a bit further to understand their full impact on the virile male viewer.

/(Hey I am only pursuing this in a scientific manner) ;)

434 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:54:35pm

re: #429 reine.de.tout

re: #430 sattv4u2

I heard today the best course of action is a parralel releif well but they won;t be able to do that till August. No explanation as to why

I can only surmise getting the rigging in place. Any thoughts?


CONTINUED

I would think a drilling platform could be towed into place in days, not months

435 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:54:45pm

re: #429 reine.de.tout

Oh, ugh!

From the oilspill twitter feed that webevintage posted in "Pages" -
39 photos showing just how awful this thing is.

And it's only going to get worse; there seems to be no end in sight for getting this thing sealed off.

There is an end in sight, but it is two months away with the relief wells.

There is also the top kill attempts that may begin Wednesday, but we should all be prepared for the possibility that the top kill will make the leak far worse.

The ultimate end in sight will be when the reservoir is drained. In this we got lucky that this is a relatively small discovery.

436 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:55:16pm

re: #432 LudwigVanQuixote

That is absolutely correct. Good show. But aain the entire use of the word slave conjures up the wrong image of what the system was.

In general, people would be sold into servitude to pay of debts or damages. The person would sell their services and use the proceeds to pay off their debts.

It is also important to note that the slave owns his own property. His clothing is his clothing for example.

Sounds a bit like some jobs I have had...

437 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:55:27pm

re: #433 ausador

I can certainly understand that, but I need to study those pictures a bit further to understand their full impact on the virile male viewer.

/(Hey I am only pursuing this in a scientific manner) ;)

My scientific conclusion after seeing many of her photos and TV appearances>>> {SIGH}

438 Mich-again  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:55:34pm

re: #428 dauntlessone

Please point out if I am incorrect. Also please point out what is unreasonable about the long quote.

My problem with the quote is that having religion has nothing at all to do with having morals. I see no correlation between a person claiming to subscribe to a religion and that person being a good moral person. Zero.

439 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:56:01pm

re: #423 LudwigVanQuixote

What is the Hebrew word for "slave" when referring to the Hebrew slaves in Egypt?

440 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:56:09pm

re: #414 Killgore Trout

More trouble for the Vatican...
Priest Accused Of Abusing Boy, Turning Home Into 'Erotic Dungeon' Surrenders To Police


(AP) SAO PAULO - A Polish priest accused of sexually abusing a former altar boy in Rio de Janeiro and turning his parish home into an "erotic dungeon" has surrendered and is now in police custody, a public safety official said Saturday.

State prosecutors have accused Marcin Michael Strachanowski of handcuffing the 16-year-old former altar boy to a bed three years ago in the parish house where the priest lived and threatening to kill the youth if he spoke of the abuse.

. . .

The 44-year-old priest was suspended from duties after the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Rio de Janeiro learned that a judge had issued an order Thursday for his arrest.

The archdiocese issued a statement Friday announcing the suspension and expressing regret over the alleged abuse.


An expression of regret?
No excommunication?

441 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:56:19pm

re: #431 Cato the Elder

OK I give a crap in this case what wiktionary translates this as. I am telling you what the actual status of such a person was under Jewish Law.

Serf is a complete misnomer. Even under the monarchy in ancient times, there was no feudal system of the sort that was practiced in Europe.

Slave is a complete misnomer, because when people think of slaves thy think of chattle slavery. The person in this system is not the property of the master of the house in that sense. They are not chattle.

442 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:56:49pm

re: #430 sattv4u2

I heard today the best course of action is a parralel releif well but they won;t be able to do that till August. No explanation as to why

I can only surmise getting the rigging in place. Any thoughts?

They are in the process of drilling two relief wells, it is certainly the most reliable option for a shut off, and permanent seal to the MC252 well. The time delay is the amount of time it takes to drill the relief well, they are making excellent progress.

443 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:57:07pm

re: #439 Cato the Elder

poke

poke poke

poek poke poke

444 zora  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:57:25pm

re: #433 ausador

from wiki:

Vergara was discovered by a photographer while walking on a Colombian beach.

for good reason.

445 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:58:11pm

re: #442 Bagua

They are in the process of drilling two relief wells, it is certainly the most reliable option for a shut off, and permanent seal to the MC252 well. The time delay is the amount of time it takes to drill the relief well, they are making excellent progress.

Thanks,,, the radio reporter made it sound as if the drilling wouldn;'t be started till August ,, not that it has already begun and should be finished by then

446 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:59:15pm

re: #444 zora

from wiki:


for good reason.

NOTE TO SELF

Call Travel Agent

Book flight to Columbia

No hotel reservations needed

get tent to camp out ON beach

447 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:59:16pm

re: #434 sattv4u2

re: #430 sattv4u2


CONTINUED

I would think a drilling platform could be towed into place in days, not months

Note: Both relief well drilling platforms are not only on site, they are well into drilling and racing each other to the planned intersection with MC252 at 18,000 feet, just above the reseviour.

448 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 2:59:37pm

re: #430 sattv4u2

I heard today the best course of action is a parralel releif well but they won;t be able to do that till August. No explanation as to why

I can only surmise getting the rigging in place. Any thoughts?

No thoughts, sorry.

Drilling equipment is owned by one company, and then leased by an oil company. There's not a whole lot of these things just sitting around available for use at the drop of a hat. Just too expensive - so it's possible that for some reason they simply can't get the equipment they need until August. Otherwise -- I have no clue.

449 sattv4u2  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:00:49pm

K all

Hitting the kitchen to make dinner

450 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:01:21pm

re: #439 Cato the Elder

What is the Hebrew word for "slave" when referring to the Hebrew slaves in Egypt?

Abad, plural abadim.

Different word. Different concept.

451 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:03:29pm

re: #434 sattv4u2

re: #430 sattv4u2


CONTINUED

I would think a drilling platform could be towed into place in days, not months

Depends on where it's being towed from, and if there's even one available for use.

re: #435 Bagua

There is an end in sight, but it is two months away with the relief wells.

There is also the top kill attempts that may begin Wednesday, but we should all be prepared for the possibility that the top kill will make the leak far worse.

The ultimate end in sight will be when the reservoir is drained. In this we got lucky that this is a relatively small discovery.

I don't have a lot of hope for that top kill attempt. It was supposed to already have begun; then delayed 'til Tuesday; now delayed 'til Wednesday; and then it's very iffy as to whether it will even work.

We can always hope that this formation is weakening and will collapse in on itself.

452 abolitionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:03:46pm

re: #430 sattv4u2

I heard today the best course of action is a parralel releif well but they won;t be able to do that till August. No explanation as to why

I can only surmise getting the rigging in place. Any thoughts?

Perhaps the bean counters have recommended waiting for hurricane season?
/pure speculation

453 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:04:35pm

Hello everyone! My first post. Good to be here.

454 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:04:57pm

re: #448 reine.de.tout

Development Driller II is onsite and spudded a well on May 18th, right now they have drilled to 8,650 feet.

Development Driller II is onsite and spudded their well on May 2nd. They have drilled to 10,100 feet, and are setting their 18" liner.


Those are both parallel wells in progress. One is a backup in case one fails or is delayed.

455 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:05:45pm

re: #453 Truman

Hello everyone! My first post. Good to be here.

Crap. Another Democrat.

456 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:05:50pm

re: #453 Truman

Welcome. Now get me a beer.

457 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:05:51pm

re: #447 Bagua

Note: Both relief well drilling platforms are not only on site, they are well into drilling and racing each other to the planned intersection with MC252 at 18,000 feet, just above the reseviour.

They've got two drilling platforms there now?
I missed that somehow, I'm so very concerned about the clean up. There's a humonguous amount of oil out there, with streamers of it going off in all different directions, getting caught up in various currents. I imagine the clean up is going to take a very long time.

458 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:07:09pm

re: #453 Truman

Hello everyone! My first post. Good to be here.

welcome...

just curious, what do you put on your pizza?

459 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:07:36pm

re: #454 Bagua

Development Driller II is onsite and spudded a well on May 18th, right now they have drilled to 8,650 feet.

Development Driller II is onsite and spudded their well on May 2nd. They have drilled to 10,100 feet, and are setting their 18" liner.

Those are both parallel wells in progress. One is a backup in case one fails or is delayed.

OK, thanks.
I knew one drilling operation had made a good deal of progress; didn't realize there was a second one out there.

460 Mich-again  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:08:00pm

re: #441 LudwigVanQuixote

OK I give a crap in this case what wiktionary translates this as. I am telling you what the actual status of such a person was under Jewish Law.

Serf is a complete misnomer. Even under the monarchy in ancient times, there was no feudal system of the sort that was practiced in Europe.

Slave is a complete misnomer, because when people think of slaves thy think of chattle slavery. The person in this system is not the property of the master of the house in that sense. They are not chattle.

I disagree. Exodus chapter 21 lays down the law about Hebrew slaves and its pretty clear they are considered property. For instance..

20 Death is the punishment for beating to death any of your slaves. 21 However, if the slave lives a few days after the beating, you are not to be punished. After all, you have already lost the services of that slave who was your property.
461 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:08:02pm

re: #450 LudwigVanQuixote

I stand instructed.

462 Gus  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:08:32pm

re: #454 Bagua

Development Driller II is onsite and spudded a well on May 18th, right now they have drilled to 8,650 feet.

Development Driller II is onsite and spudded their well on May 2nd. They have drilled to 10,100 feet, and are setting their 18" liner.

Those are both parallel wells in progress. One is a backup in case one fails or is delayed.

I thought they were already drilling. The August date means they'll have all relief wells done by that time. Could be early August which is roughly 70 days away.

463 researchok  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:08:47pm

re: #455 Decatur Deb

Crap. Another Democrat.

I'm still laughing.

464 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:09:07pm

re: #440 reine.de.tout

An expression of regret?
No excommunication?

Innocent until proven guilty does not apply to accused priests?

Give it some time and await some proof, think of the daycare witch hunt here, particularly the Mc Martin daycare scandal.

465 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:09:09pm

re: #451 reine.de.tout

I don't have a lot of hope for that top kill attempt. It was supposed to already have begun; then delayed 'til Tuesday; now delayed 'til Wednesday; and then it's very iffy as to whether it will even work.

We can always hope that this formation is weakening and will collapse in on itself.

They know that the top-kill could lead to an unrestricted flow. As the current leak is in the 5,000 - 10,000 barrel a day range, an unrestricted flow could be around 60,000 barrels a day. Oilmagedon.

I believe the most likely result is the leak will continue to get worse due to the effect of the sand eroding the bits choking the flow.

466 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:09:10pm

re: #451 reine.de.tout

I don't have a lot of hope for that top kill attempt. It was supposed to already have begun; then delayed 'til Tuesday; now delayed 'til Wednesday; and then it's very iffy as to whether it will even work.

We can always hope that this formation is weakening and will collapse in on itself.

The weather conditions may not be good enough to attempt it, or it might be conditions on the sea floor. There's never been a leak like this at this depth before, so the normal methods will require major alterations to work, if they work at all.

467 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:09:11pm

re: #462 Gus 802

I thought they were already drilling. The August date means they'll have all relief wells done by that time. Could be early August which is roughly 70 days away.

hurricane season no?

468 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:09:20pm

re: #455 Decatur Deb

Ooh jeez. I was born into a Democrat family.

469 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:09:33pm

re: #426 Bagua

I believe there is a talmudic reference to travailing with one's slave and having only one pillow. The slave gets the pillow.

There's a reason the rest of the Roman world thought we were total freaks.

470 Gus  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:09:55pm

re: #467 brookly red

hurricane season no?

That could hold things up. If they get a hurricane that is.

471 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:10:20pm

re: #427 Mich-again

Good luck finding anyone who would qualify as a good Christian.

I know a few. None of them think we can get along without a legal system, though.

472 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:10:22pm

re: #453 Truman

Hello everyone! My first post. Good to be here.

Go slow at first.

If you try to turn LGF into the Truman Show, it will be noticed.

Now make me a Vesper, עבד!

473 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:10:31pm

re: #456 Bubblehead II

Welcome. Now get me a beer.

Domestic or German? There is no other choice.

474 dauntlessone  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:10:40pm

re: #438 Mich-again

My problem with the quote is that having religion has nothing at all to do with having morals. I see no correlation between a person claiming to subscribe to a religion and that person being a good moral person. Zero.

I would not go so far as to say religion has nothing to do with having morals. I will agree that a specific religion does not make you any more moral of a person inherently than someone of a different religion. Still waiting on someone to explain why her inference does not constitute journalistic malfeasance. She goes way beyond the contents of the quote and even states the opposite because he says we do need laws. Hang the guy on his real views, not a made up quote from a journalist who obviously has an axe to grind.

475 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:11:04pm

re: #453 Truman

Hello everyone! My first post. Good to be here.

You here to give us Hell, Harry?


Just kidding. Welcome.

476 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:11:20pm

re: #468 Truman

So was I, and raised one.

477 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:11:36pm

re: #431 Cato the Elder

Perhaps, but by the standard of the day, not a bad system at all.

478 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:11:36pm

re: #473 Truman

Domestic or German? There is no other choice.

got any German dark?

479 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:11:45pm

re: #424 sattv4u2

I'm still thinking about this from this morning!!

Image: sofia-vergara.jpg

*blink*

480 Mich-again  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:12:07pm

re: #471 SanFranciscoZionist

I know a few. None of them think we can get along without a legal system, though.

Any good Christian would know that humans are weak and prone to sin.

481 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:12:12pm

re: #473 Truman

Domestic or German? There is no other choice.

How so? There is also Dutch, Chinese, Thai, Mexican...

482 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:12:16pm

re: #478 brookly red

got any German dark?

Spaten Optimator coming up!

483 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:12:35pm

re: #439 Cato the Elder

What is the Hebrew word for "slave" when referring to the Hebrew slaves in Egypt?

Once again, eved, as in "Avadim hayinu".

484 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:12:48pm

re: #462 Gus 802

I thought they were already drilling. The August date means they'll have all relief wells done by that time. Could be early August which is roughly 70 days away.

Yes, that's right, we are already deep into both planned relief wells, completion is about two months out. We can't have them rushing any faster than the MC252 well as we don't want another tragedy. They are able to accurately predict the time needed to drill the wells because they just finished one next to it.

485 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:12:51pm

re: #479 MandyManners

*blink*

Pretty girl, eh?

486 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:13:07pm

re: #460 Mich-again


Head to desk.

All of that needs to be taken into the context of the oral law. You can not take the verses - in translation - out of context and assume you have a complete or even accurate picture of the system.

The period of servitude is the property of the master of the house. The labor of the servant and the proceeds from that labor are the property of the master of the house. The person himself is not property.

If you really want to disagree with what I have told you, look up the relevant Talmud - and not from some online source that may have translated even that for its own purposes. Get an actual Talmud, sit with a rabbi and learn the material. In fact please do, you will find I am not lying.

487 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:13:29pm

re: #482 Truman

Spaten Optimator coming up!

but that's malt liquor no? it's OK I like it anyway...

488 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:14:07pm

re: #483 SanFranciscoZionist

Once again, eved, as in "Avadim hayinu".

Yes, the root is the same, but the change in vowel makes a big difference.

489 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:14:44pm

re: #464 ausador

Innocent until proven guilty does not apply to accused priests?

Give it some time and await some proof, think of the daycare witch hunt here, particularly the Mc Martin daycare scandal.

If you read the article, it looks to me to be a pretty solid case, from the description of what the investigators found.

I'm very disturbed by the Church's tepid actions and reactions to these cases, and the failure to ensure protection of the very ones who should be protected by any means.

490 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:14:44pm

re: #464 ausador

Innocent until proven guilty does not apply to accused priests?

Give it some time and await some proof, think of the daycare witch hunt here, particularly the Mc Martin daycare scandal.

I'd be more inclined to go that route if there was evidence that they'd taken appropriate action to see such men charged in the past, or given a damn when the charges were correct. Ya know?

491 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:14:48pm

re: #475 Dark_Falcon

Thank you. I won't be giving anyone hell for awhile. :)

492 Mich-again  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:15:08pm

re: #474 dauntlessone

Still waiting on someone to explain why her inference does not constitute journalistic malfeasance.

I read what he said and I do think the headline sums up his position quite succinctly. It boils the whole paragraph down to one single ridiculous untenable point.

493 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:15:50pm

re: #465 Bagua

They know that the top-kill could lead to an unrestricted flow. As the current leak is in the 5,000 - 10,000 barrel a day range, an unrestricted flow could be around 60,000 barrels a day. Oilmagedon.

I believe the most likely result is the leak will continue to get worse due to the effect of the sand eroding the bits choking the flow.

O.M.G.

I hope they don't screw this one up then.

494 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:16:10pm

re: #473 Truman

A Fat Tire Draft would be just fine.

495 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:16:40pm

re: #467 brookly red

hurricane season no?

Hurricane season 2010 begins June 1st.

496 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:17:14pm

re: #481 Dark_Falcon

How so? There is also Dutch, Chinese, Thai, Mexican...

You forgot Egyptian! goes back 4 thousand years. I didn't mean to disparage all those nations who've discovered beer. I like it all!

497 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:17:41pm

re: #477 SanFranciscoZionist

Perhaps, but by the standard of the day, not a bad system at all.

I only brought it up because the laws were there for a reason, that is, I assume they were often ignored.

Slavery or servitude or whatever you want to call it was hedged about with restrictions in many cultures, and in all cases it was assumed that a slave-owner would naturally treat his property with more care than a day-laborer would necessarily receive, because "it" was his property. The same theory applied in the Old South.

My hunch is that what was supposed to happen in theory did not actually happen in fact in many instances, and that whatever the laws, the life of an עבד looked very different from the outside as opposed to the way it was experienced by the עבד himself.

498 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:18:31pm

Note also that slave does not equal slave. Take the word prisoner for example.

Both are deprived of their liberty, true, similar.

But one is treated humanely, given medical help, not abused, fed well and provided education. The other is subject to torture, rape, hard labour, starvation.

True, both are called prisoner.

499 brookly red  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:19:12pm

re: #495 reine.de.tout

Hurricane season 2010 begins June 1st.

I wonder would that help or hurt?

500 Steve Magruder  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:20:11pm

So, where can the moral center be located in Dr. Rand Paul's racism by proxy, where one thinks it's all right to allow private businesses to discriminate based on race?

501 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:21:18pm

re: #482 Truman

Spaten Optimator coming up!

Upding for Spaten Beer..Welcome

502 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:21:51pm

re: #453 Truman

Hello everyone! My first post. Good to be here.

Lemme' see your hat.

503 researchok  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:21:58pm

re: #497 Cato the Elder

I only brought it up because the laws were there for a reason, that is, I assume they were often ignored.

Slavery or servitude or whatever you want to call it was hedged about with restrictions in many cultures, and in all cases it was assumed that a slave-owner would naturally treat his property with more care than a day-laborer would necessarily receive, because "it" was his property. The same theory applied in the Old South.

My hunch is that what was supposed to happen in theory did not actually happen in fact in many instances, and that whatever the laws, the life of an עבד looked very different from the outside as opposed to the way it was experienced by the עבד himself.

I suspect the treatment of the slave mirrored the values of the community.

For the Jews, slavery was at best a delicate issue. Jews are specifically commanded to be kind to the slave because they were reminded that they too were once slaves. Further, the OT does provide a limit on how long one can 'own' a slave before the slave must be set free.

504 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:22:41pm

re: #499 brookly red

I wonder would that help or hurt?

I read somewhere, and I can't recall where I read it, that some experts in this sort of thing are concerned that the oil sitting on that water does not allow heat to dissipate as it normally would, and so the Gulf waters may be warmer than usual. That = bad - the warmer the waters, the more likely a hurricane can form or become a really bad one if it forms somewhere else and enters the Gulf.

Usually the worst storms are in August/September, when the Gulf waters are really warm.

A storm in the area would mean all operations would cease and personnel evacuated to land - delaying the attempts to cap the well. So, no, we don't want a storm.

505 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:22:42pm

Oooh. Someone instructed Cato.

506 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:23:00pm

re: #458 brookly red

welcome...

just curious, what do you put on your pizza?

Anything but onions and bell peppers: they overwhelm every other flavor. My favorite topping is shrimp (it's a long story).

507 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:23:12pm

re: #500 Steve Magruder

So, where can the moral center be located in Dr. Rand Paul's racism by proxy, where one thinks it's all right to allow private businesses to discriminate based on race?

Welcome hatchling. Looks like the beer is going to flow tonight.

As for your question, at the same moral center that the scum at stormfront gravitate to.

508 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:23:30pm

re: #468 Truman

Ooh jeez. I was born into a Democrat family.

Nobody's perfect.

509 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:24:27pm

re: #493 reine.de.tout

O.M.G.

I hope they don't screw this one up then.

We don't really have a metric for doing this right as it has never been tried at this depth/pressure. While everybody is wittering on about how BP is evilly underestimating the flow, we all better hope that BP is spot on. If they have the pressure wrong then the top kill is more dangerous and less likely to work.

510 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:24:48pm

re: #506 Truman

Your dead. :-0

511 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:25:03pm

re: #497 Cato the Elder

I only brought it up because the laws were there for a reason, that is, I assume they were often ignored.

Slavery or servitude or whatever you want to call it was hedged about with restrictions in many cultures, and in all cases it was assumed that a slave-owner would naturally treat his property with more care than a day-laborer would necessarily receive, because "it" was his property. The same theory applied in the Old South.

My hunch is that what was supposed to happen in theory did not actually happen in fact in many instances, and that whatever the laws, the life of an עבד looked very different from the outside as opposed to the way it was experienced by the עבד himself.

That's all undoubtedly true. However, Ludwig is correct in that there is a considerable amount of law built around the idea that slaves must be treated with a degree of human dignity and legal oversight, and a great deal of evidence of a culture that believed that treating one's slaves with concern and respect was something that made you a godly person, rather than a pathetic schmuck.

Please remember also, in respect to Mich-again's quote from Exodus 21, that we're talking about a considerable stretch of time here, from the status of a slave in early tribal days, to the controls laid down by rabbinic courts a few thousand years later. A lot can happen in a few thousand years, both in terms of social development, and societal influences, and in terms of people abusing power.

512 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:25:12pm

re: #485 Dark_Falcon

Pretty girl, eh?

Actually, I never got around to looking at her face.

513 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:25:17pm

Just found out that my first cousin once removed is coming to town for a visit.

She has chosen to follow in my footsteps and major in German. She'll be an exchange student in Vienna (where they speak German, after a fashion) come the fall.

Looking forward to putting her through her paces as her tutor when she gets here. All she has to do is take me out for crabs and beer.

514 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:26:09pm

re: #457 reine.de.tout

They've got two drilling platforms there now?
I missed that somehow, I'm so very concerned about the clean up. There's a humongous amount of oil out there, with streamers of it going off in all different directions, getting caught up in various currents. I imagine the clean up is going to take a very long time.

Most of the oil, like 80%+ will break up and sink before ever reaching land. It already is doing that, this is why FSU and other researchers are warning about underwater oil plumes being carried for hundreds of miles already.

There is no clean-up for that, none. So far the amount of surface oil that has made it to land is really negliable, although doubly damaging for striking protected bird sanctuaries and wetlands.

Concentrate on that, ignore the trash gyre in the pacific, ignore that sailors for the last two decades have said that they have seen oil sheens or clumps on the surface of the ocean 2 out of three days across the entire Atlantic and Pacific oceans.

This is a horrible example of pollution and I am quite sure it will be blamed for 50% of the pollution that was already there too. BP is fucked no matter what they do, deservedly so...apparently. But then again we are convicting them without any real evidence as of yet.

515 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:26:15pm

re: #494 Bubblehead II

A Fat Tire Draft would be just fine.

It is yours, sir or Madam!

516 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:26:25pm

re: #420 Decatur Deb

A group of us from a radiological protection class in San Antonio did the Alamo visit one night. We piled into the horse-drawn carriage, and the guide/driver did his spiel. To chat us up, he asked where we were from, and one of the margarita-
enabled ladies told him all about the class and mentioned Avogadro's Number. The guide, who watches a horse's ass all day, came back with "6.0221415 × 1023".

But that's wrong. Since the rest of it is right, you must have mis-remembered what he said. The exponent is 23, not 1023. There aren't that many nucleons in the known universe, if you use the larger exponent.

People in humble jobs often know more than you might think. I got a kick out of one encounter while working night shift as a security guard. Cleaning lady's sister was over from France. Neither spoke the other's language. So I translated for them. It was a ragged job, but as with bears riding bicycles, the wonder was that the night guard could do it at all.

517 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:26:35pm

re: #508 MandyManners

Upding for the 4th of July reference.

518 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:27:18pm

re: #497 Cato the Elder

I only brought it up because the laws were there for a reason, that is, I assume they were often ignored.

Slavery or servitude or whatever you want to call it was hedged about with restrictions in many cultures, and in all cases it was assumed that a slave-owner would naturally treat his property with more care than a day-laborer would necessarily receive, because "it" was his property. The same theory applied in the Old South.

My hunch is that what was supposed to happen in theory did not actually happen in fact in many instances, and that whatever the laws, the life of an עבד looked very different from the outside as opposed to the way it was experienced by the עבד himself.

Yes and no.

There are several discussions there.

First off, what is on the books (and this is certainly where it started as a discussion) is clearly, demonstrably not what a simple reading of King James would lead one to believe it is.

Second off, the period of time that a Beit Din could actually place someone into servitude covers over 1000 years of history. It would be foolish to believe that over those 1000 years it was always practiced to the high standards of the law. However, the times where Jewish History recounts mass violations of those laws, there are also violent liberations of slaves from cruel owners.

Third, from the get go, standing against cruel servitude was of the fabric of Jewish Law. It is an up and up command to not return an escaped slave to a cruel master. This commandment even got extended to people seeking asylum from other cultures.

519 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:27:26pm

re: #506 Truman

Anything but onions and bell peppers: they overwhelm every other flavor. My favorite topping is shrimp (it's a long story).

Wear extra Armour...When we discuss Pizza it's a Blog mine field..Tread lightly.
*wink*

520 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:27:36pm

re: #512 MandyManners

Actually, I never got around to looking at her face.

Well, her other parts are quite nice as well.


/Sorry, I'm a guy.

521 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:29:01pm

re: #517 Bubblehead II

Upding for the 4th of July reference.

I've seen part of the movie. Not that part.

522 Daniel Ballard  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:29:15pm

re: #454 Bagua

Would you or anyone know why BP or whoever could not shut down a nearby deep drill platform tow it over there and re-equip from the pipe to the BOP? At this point expense should be no issue. Besides=Every barrel lost is going to be $$ to clean up instead or sold for current prices.

523 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:29:42pm

re: #520 Dark_Falcon

Well, her other parts are quite nice as well.


/Sorry, I'm a guy.

No need to apologize for being a man. Where do you think you are? Code Pink?

524 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:30:12pm

re: #519 HoosierHoops

Thank you for the warning. Pizza is a mine field? Crimeney!

525 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:30:28pm

Then, there's the delirously fun distinctions to be made between the Biblical use of shifcha and ama, both of which tend to go into English as 'maidservant'.

526 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:30:30pm

re: #515 Truman

Thanks. BTW, my parents worked for a living so don't be calling me Sir. :-)

527 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:30:42pm

re: #516 lostlakehiker

I copied in the number--the exponent (23) fell from superscript.

528 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:30:43pm

re: #498 Bagua

Note also that slave does not equal slave. Take the word prisoner for example.

Both are deprived of their liberty, true, similar.

But one is treated humanely, given medical help, not abused, fed well and provided education. The other is subject to torture, rape, hard labour, starvation.

True, both are called prisoner.

Depends whose prisoner. You do not want to be a prisoner in Iran. For details, read "Persepolis" (Marjane Satrapi). It's also now out as a movie. Either way, well worth the price.

You did not want to be a prisoner of the Germans unless you were taken on the Western Front, and perhaps because of the way the Germans treated their Russian prisoners, you did not want to be a German prisoner of the Russians, taken at Stalingrad. You really didn't want to be a prisoner of the Japanese in WW2.

529 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:32:11pm

re: #514 ausador

Most of the oil, like 80%+ will break up and sink before ever reaching land. It already is doing that, this is why FSU and other researchers are warning about underwater oil plumes being carried for hundreds of miles already.

There is no clean-up for that, none. So far the amount of surface oil that has made it to land is really negliable, although doubly damaging for striking protected bird sanctuaries and wetlands.


I think you are missing the fact that the reason not much is reaching the shore is because of the dispersant and the natural biodegrading of the oil. A similar process will occur with the oil plumes, but minus a couple of beneficial factors the oil on the surface enjoys. Among them, agitation, exposure to the atmosphere, sunlight, warmth, skimming, etc.

The dose makes the poison, sufficiently dilute and the oil is no longer significant.

530 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:34:09pm

re: #523 MandyManners

No need to apologize for being a man. Where do you think you are? Code Pink?

It's just what I say when I say something that is somewhat untoward. It's part of being polite to you, Mandy.

531 MandyManners  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:36:09pm

re: #530 Dark_Falcon

It's just what I say when I say something that is somewhat untoward. It's part of being polite to you, Mandy.

LOL! I'm quite good at bawdy speech!

532 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:36:12pm

re: #524 Truman

Thank you for the warning. Pizza is a mine field? Crimeney!

Ring Ring...
Chicago Pizza may I help you
Large Veggie Pizza please..
Veggie
Extra Veggies and don't go all cheap on me with the Veggies..
Is that all?
No Pineapples also..
Pineapples?
No extra Pineapples.. Pretend you were Born in Hawaii!
( Red is slamming his head against the wall right now)

533 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:37:13pm

re: #102 SpaceJesus

i do like facts, i especially like the fact that the site you linked to made a serious typo. the murder rate in sweden isn't 10, it is 1.0 per 100,000 people. this makes it 1/5 that of the US's 5.0 homicides per 100,000

we weren't parsing individual crimes. you made a general statement which was completely contradicted by actual facts.

even without homicides, the Swedish crime rate was double the US in 2001.

so what statement were you going to make about religion and crime again? remember, this is your statement, not mine...

534 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:39:11pm

re: #521 MandyManners

I've seen part of the movie. Not that part.

It was right after they decided to take the alien ship armed with a nuke up to the mothership and inject a virus into their system to drop their shields and then launch the nuke.

The (freshly) fired SecDef was asked to join a prayer circle. He replied that he wasn't Jewish. The old guy (father of the guy who found the method to do it) replied that no one was perfect.

535 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:39:16pm

re: #522 Rightwingconspirator

Would you or anyone know why BP or whoever could not shut down a nearby deep drill platform tow it over there and re-equip from the pipe to the BOP? At this point expense should be no issue. Besides=Every barrel lost is going to be $$ to clean up instead or sold for current prices.

Two relief wells are probably adequate. Only one has to work, the other is a back-up. I believe there is another one scheduled to be deployed. Also, the Discoverer Enterprise Drill Ship is onsite working on the Insertion Tube siphon and the top kill attempt. It could start drilling another well with sufficient preparation and supply.

Keep in mind also, that each new relief well needs to have a drilling plan approved by the MMS and everything that involves. All the procedures, test, evaluations, BOP tests, (etc. etc.). There is a massive drilling operation going on out there.

I'm not sure what you mean by "re-equip from the pipe to the BOP?"

536 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:39:36pm

re: #532 HoosierHoops

Sounds like a Chicago vs. New York thing.

537 Bagua  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:40:16pm

re: #528 lostlakehiker

Depends whose prisoner. You do not want to be a prisoner in Iran. For details, read "Persepolis" (Marjane Satrapi). It's also now out as a movie. Either way, well worth the price.

You did not want to be a prisoner of the Germans unless you were taken on the Western Front, and perhaps because of the way the Germans treated their Russian prisoners, you did not want to be a German prisoner of the Russians, taken at Stalingrad. You really didn't want to be a prisoner of the Japanese in WW2.

My point exactly.

538 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:42:26pm

re: #536 Truman

Sounds like a Chicago vs. New York thing.

True. But I'm kind of weird that way: I live in the Chicago suburbs and was born and raised in Chicago, but I do not like deep dish, preferring thin crust instead.

539 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:42:32pm

re: #536 Truman

Sounds like a Chicago vs. New York thing.

Nope not at all...The only place that knows how to make a decent Veggie Pizza locally is Chicago Pizza...I'm a California Boy...Red is good people...

540 William of Orange  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:43:11pm

It's interesting to know that the same can be said about communism. If everyone lived according to the true meaning of that ideal you also wouldn't have envy, crime, murder etc.


But this is utopia. The communist block never was true communism. People were oppressed into that ideal and just as George Orwell wrote in his novel Animal Farm, some pigs are more equal than others.....


You cannot force an idea or faith on someone else if he/she doesn't want to. Believe me, if you're a Christian, that's fine with me. It's also a form of someone's persuit of happiness. But don't force a faith on another person!!

541 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:43:13pm

re: #524 Truman

Thank you for the warning. Pizza is a mine field? Crimeney!

Brookly and i have been known to gang up on cretins who blaspheme with pineapple...

542 Mich-again  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:47:04pm

There is a pizza buffet restaurant around here that serves up all kinds of disgusting pizza. Hows about some of that Macaroni and Cheese pizza? yech. But someone must like it because they keep serving it up. I'm more a traditionalist. Keep it simple and leave off the pineapples, shrimp, mac and cheese, and marshmallows.

543 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:48:14pm

re: #541 Aceofwhat?

Brookly and i have been known to gang up on cretins who blaspheme with pineapple...


It's like in the Movie 'The River runs through it' When Mom walks into the Kitchen in the Middle of a fight between 2 Brothers and gets the crap knocked out of her..You hit Mom! No!
You hit Mom!
And the fight starts all over...Don't walk into a pizza fight unless you have a good right cross.. Cause you aren't going to like it

544 Mich-again  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:49:03pm

re: #540 William of Orange

But don't force a faith on another person!!

Especially when they try to pawn off their religion as science and inject it into public school curriculum.

545 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:49:20pm

re: #538 Dark_Falcon

I have never tried teh dip dish thing. It looks good on tv but I'm a thin crust kinda guy. If I get to Chicago I will have a deep dish Chicago pizza! And I will love it!

546 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:52:19pm

re: #539 HoosierHoops

I'm a California boy too. Although I was in Tucson when I ate my first pizza.

547 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:52:41pm

re: #545 Truman

I have never tried teh dip dish thing. It looks good on tv but I'm a thin crust kinda guy. If I get to Chicago I will have a deep dish Chicago pizza! And I will love it!

Cool.

548 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:53:42pm

re: #546 Truman

I'm a California boy too. Although I was in Tucson when I ate my first pizza.

Cali guy? I was born in Firebaugh and Raised in Napa Valley...Nice to have you here

549 Mich-again  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:54:41pm

re: #545 Truman

If I get to Chicago I will have a deep dish Chicago pizza! And I will love it!

One piece of the Chicago deep dish pizza is a meal. Two pieces will leave you stuffed. To go beyond that is not recommended.

550 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:55:19pm

re: #543 HoosierHoops

It's like in the Movie 'The River runs through it' When Mom walks into the Kitchen in the Middle of a fight between 2 Brothers and gets the crap knocked out of her..You hit Mom! No!
You hit Mom!
And the fight starts all over...Don't walk into a pizza fight unless you have a good right cross.. Cause you aren't going to like it

heh...great analogy.

and with regard to deep dish - i love deep dish. it's not pizza, but i love it.

551 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:56:59pm

re: #548 HoosierHoops

Thank you. Hoosier? Is there a story there?

552 Daniel Ballard  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:57:00pm

re: #535 Bagua

I know nothing of drilling for oil. The dip stick on my car is as close as I get.

Okay this relief well thing I get, drilling nearby to intercept the oil before it gets to the leak. What puzzles me, is why not bring a whole new platform over-remove the old b.o.p., replace that with a good one and establish another pipe up to the platform. In other words replace the whole thing with a proper intact platform, pipe, BOP the works.

A top to bottom replacement setup. Why is that not faster/better?

553 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:59:15pm

re: #549 Mich-again

One piece of the Chicago deep dish pizza is a meal. Two pieces will leave you stuffed. To go beyond that is not recommended.

I will go beyond! Depend on it.

554 Digital Display  Mon, May 24, 2010 3:59:43pm

re: #551 Truman

Thank you. Hoosier? Is there a story there?

California is Home..I travel a lot..The more people from California here the better...I don't care about what people say about my state...I will always defend her

555 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:01:13pm

re: #553 Truman

I will go beyond! Depend on it.

Unwise. Mich is correct. Two slices will fill you.

556 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:03:02pm

re: #555 Dark_Falcon

Unwise. Mich is correct. Two slices will fill you.

agree...

one slice = full
two slices = stuffed
three slices = it's coming back up

557 firstinla  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:04:03pm

As a hurricane absorbs moisture from the water source as it moves, wouldn't it also be sucking up oil? And would that oily water drop as the hurricane moves ashore, spreading the disaster deeper inland? Don't know if these questions make any sense but I don't know how else to phrase them.

558 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:08:38pm

re: #555 Dark_Falcon

Unwise. Mich is correct. Two slices will fill you.

I did not say nor did I imply I was wise. I love pizza and will eat until my health is compromised. When I was fifteen I ate a 16" pizza (which I made) by myself. Some people choose base jumping or leaping motorcycles over cars, I choose pizza!

559 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:09:01pm

re: #523 MandyManners

No need to apologize for being a man. Where do you think you are? Code Pink?

This place does bare a slight resemblance at certain hours of the day, one can never be completely sure can one?

/:p

560 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:12:56pm

re: #557 firstinla

As a hurricane absorbs moisture from the water source as it moves, wouldn't it also be sucking up oil? And would that oily water drop as the hurricane moves ashore, spreading the disaster deeper inland? Don't know if these questions make any sense but I don't know how else to phrase them.

oil doesn't evaporate in the same manner that water does.

561 Truman  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:14:07pm

re: #558 Truman

I did not say nor did I imply I was wise. I love pizza and will eat until my health is compromised. When I was fifteen I ate a 16" pizza (which I made) by myself. Some people choose base jumping or leaping motorcycles over cars, I choose pizza!

I did have crippling heart-burn that night so, no, you are probably correct. :)

562 firstinla  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:14:11pm

re: #560 Aceofwhat?

Okay; thanks.

563 Aceofwhat?  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:17:36pm

re: #562 firstinla

Okay; thanks.

i know it was an overly pithy answer, but remember that oil is quite hydrophobic in its natural state. certainly, the sun and elements will excite some hydrocarbons into the atmosphere, but AFAIK, not on a scale that matters in the scheme of things.

for example, think about all of the oil still up in Alaska from the Exxon Valdez...over time, it will dry with exposure, but the thick tar that is raw crude oil doesn't go away quickly.

564 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:17:39pm

re: #514 ausador

Most of the oil, like 80%+ will break up and sink before ever reaching land. It already is doing that, this is why FSU and other researchers are warning about underwater oil plumes being carried for hundreds of miles already.

There is no clean-up for that, none. So far the amount of surface oil that has made it to land is really negliable, although doubly damaging for striking protected bird sanctuaries and wetlands.

Concentrate on that, ignore the trash gyre in the pacific, ignore that sailors for the last two decades have said that they have seen oil sheens or clumps on the surface of the ocean 2 out of three days across the entire Atlantic and Pacific oceans.

This is a horrible example of pollution and I am quite sure it will be blamed for 50% of the pollution that was already there too. BP is fucked no matter what they do, deservedly so...apparently. But then again we are convicting them without any real evidence as of yet.

They apparently are injecting some sort of dispersant into some of those undersea plumes of oil, but there may be a problem with the dispersant being toxic, itself.

As far as convicting BP without any real evidence - well, I'm certain that they made some decisions they knew better than to make, and that they put that rig in danger with those decisions, in order to save a few hours of time and money.

I think the investigators and those who know about these things already know exactly how and why this thing happened.

565 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:21:24pm

re: #559 ausador

This place does bare a slight resemblance at certain hours of the day, one can never be completely sure can one?

/:p

Well we are Lizards as is the Chameleon.

Watch where you step.

566 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:31:38pm

re: #557 firstinla

As a hurricane absorbs moisture from the water source as it moves, wouldn't it also be sucking up oil? And would that oily water drop as the hurricane moves ashore, spreading the disaster deeper inland? Don't know if these questions make any sense but I don't know how else to phrase them.

If you're in that LA, you'll be first to know.

567 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:39:52pm

Night Lizards.

568 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 24, 2010 4:45:45pm

re: #567 Bubblehead II

Night Lizards.

Have a good one, BH2.

569 acacia  Mon, May 24, 2010 8:15:23pm

Wait a minute. I'm sure there are things to criticize the guy for but since when is saying that it is good to have a society with a moral compass a controversial thing? Do we want an amoral society? The heading says that "we wouldn't need laws" but the body says "we still need laws." This seems like a cheap shot. Criticize him for what he deserves to be criticized for but not for an innocuous statement like that.

570 ClaudeMonet  Mon, May 24, 2010 10:26:05pm

re: #144 Cato the Elder

If everyone were vegan, we wouldn't need meat inspectors.

If cows had wings, we'd all need hardhats.

571 [deleted]  Tue, May 25, 2010 5:48:00am
572 Obdicut  Tue, May 25, 2010 8:11:04am

re: #571 dauntlessone

Then explain what he meant by 'that religious underpinning', you end-of-thread hero, you.

573 [deleted]  Tue, May 25, 2010 10:09:16am
574 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 25, 2010 10:26:25am

re: #571 dauntlessone

So long, Paulian.


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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 87 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 258 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1