Right Wing Raving Homophobia Watch, the Sequel

Wingnuts • Views: 2,983

Here’s another video clip of Family Research Council “senior fellow” Peter Sprigg.

If you’re gay, the Family Research Council thinks you should be thrown out of the United States. Really.

Youtube Video

Note that the Family Research Council doesn’t qualify for the label “fringe,” either — they sponsor the Values Voters Summit every year, attended faithfully by all the top leaders of the GOP.

(Hat tip: Gus 802.)

Jump to bottom

322 comments
1 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:05:27pm

Hey, if I can trade my grandma to a deth panil and my gay friends to some foreign country for cash, I’m all about this.

2 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:06:13pm

I bet these guys have some nifty ideas about pure bloodlines as well.

3 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:07:32pm

And just for the record, George “Rentboy” Rekers was also one of the founding members of the Family Research Council.

4 darthstar  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:08:40pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And just for the record, George “Rentboy” Rekers was also one of the founding members of the Family Research Council.

Not any more…they scrubbed him from their website.

5 researchok  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:08:53pm

Lunatics.

6 wrenchwench  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:09:34pm

Is he overcompensating for his name? He should blame his parents.

7 windsagio  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:09:46pm

His mannerisms totally remind me of the guy from Fargo

8 Gus  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:09:57pm

Homophobia is the last stronghold of the public bigot.

9 windsagio  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:10:31pm

re: #8 Gus 802

Homophobia is the last stronghold of the public bigot.

I was gonna get all ‘fixt’ on you, but you did get public in there afterall >>

10 Vambo  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:10:56pm

“Family Research Council wants to throw gays out of the United States”

JUST TRY IT, BITCHES!! I’m a good swimmer, I’ll be back.

11 Olsonist  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:11:04pm

re: #4 darthstar

Not any more…they scrubbed him from their website.

Did they? That means it didn’t happen.

12 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:11:16pm

re: #5 researchok

Lunatics.

Or just change it to Peter O’Tool.

13 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:11:44pm

re: #12 Cato the Elder

Whoops! That was meant in reply to #6.

14 Gus  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:11:46pm

re: #9 windsagio

I was gonna get all ‘fixt’ on you, but you did get public in there afterall >>

Right. I actually “backspaced” on that one and put the word “public” last — too some quick thinking.

15 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:12:15pm

re: #4 darthstar

Not any more…they scrubbed him from their website.

They can try to hide it, but he was there.

16 windsagio  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:13:18pm

re: #11 Olsonist

It is kinda funny how they seem ot have the power to ‘just forget about’ all their fallen brehteren.

17 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:14:18pm

re: #10 Vambo

“Family Research Council wants to throw gays out of the United States”

JUST TRY IT, BITCHES!! I’m a good swimmer, I’ll be back.

I’m suddenly having an image of a ocean-born migration of gay Americans, returning home—breasting the waves—playing ABBA…

18 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:14:59pm

re: #16 windsagio

It is kinda funny how they seem ot have the power to ‘just forget about’ all their fallen brehteren.

The fallen brohters who come back to Jesus are forgiven.

It’s the unrepentant gays that they want to export.

What is the gayest country in the world? I think we should import soldiers from them…

19 windsagio  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:15:12pm

re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist

New NatGeo special:

“Here we see the traditional migration of the gays, as they come pouring into the bay to spawn.”

20 avanti  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:15:28pm

Maybe, the far right Christian fundamentalist need to migrate to a newly formed county, say Christland. There they could form a government based on the 10 Commandments, have mandatory prayer, TV and movies suitable for 6 year olds, no gays, a conservative dress code and the rest, a sort of Christian Saudi Arabia.

21 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:15:47pm

re: #16 windsagio

It is kinda funny how they seem to have the power to ‘just forget about’ all their fallen brehteren.

They weren’t “True Christians”…

Besides, they have the fall back strategy of claiming they were ghey infiltrators attempting to bring them down by acting as agent provocateurs. (Must be bad, they use tactics that sound French!)

///

22 windsagio  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:15:59pm

re: #18 Cato the Elder

Haha, That would be worth looking up >>

What is the gayest country in the world?

23 middy  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:16:29pm

re: #8 Gus 802

Homophobia is the last stronghold of the public bigot.

As a public atheist, I disagree.

24 darthstar  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:16:41pm

re: #20 avanti

Maybe, the far right Christian fundamentalist need to migrate to a newly formed county, say Christland. There they could form a government based on the 10 Commandments, have mandatory prayer, TV and movies suitable for 6 year olds, no gays, a conservative dress code and the rest, a sort of Christian Saudi Arabia.

They already have.

25 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:17:03pm

re: #22 windsagio

Haha, That would be worth looking up >>

What is the gayest country in the world?

Bermuda. They have the shorts, and the muscly open shirts.

26 Gus  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:17:21pm

re: #23 middy

As a public atheist, I disagree.

No comprendo.

27 Varek Raith  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:17:21pm

re: #22 windsagio

Haha, That would be worth looking up >>

What is the gayest country in the world?

[Link: www.shortnews.com…]

28 windsagio  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:17:21pm

re: #23 middy

As a public atheist, I disagree.

Atheists and Fundamentalist Christians always feel the most discriminated against >>

29 Professor Chaos  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:17:42pm

re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m suddenly having an image of a ocean-born migration of gay Americans, returning home—breasting the waves—playing ABBA…

I was picturing a huge ship with thousands on deck dancing to the Village People’s In the Navy.

30 windsagio  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:18:16pm

re: #27 Varek Raith

How does a Dude fake an orgasm? otherwise, they’re phrasing that oddly.

31 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:18:31pm

re: #1 Cato the Elder

Hey, if I can trade my grandma to a deth panil and my gay friends to some foreign country for cash, I’m all about this.

seriously…let’s be level-headed about this for a second…has anyone made us a really good offer?

32 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:18:33pm

re: #23 middy

As a public atheist, I disagree.

Its from the same folks who hate the gays.
Get rid of that type of thinking and both gays and atheists will benefit.

33 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:19:03pm

re: #28 windsagio

Atheists and Fundamentalist Christians always feel the most discriminated against >>

Bah!

34 windsagio  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:19:22pm

re: #33 b_sharp

You know its true!

35 Varek Raith  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:19:25pm

re: #30 windsagio

How does a Dude fake an orgasm? otherwise, they’re phrasing that oddly.

Dunno. That was the first site on the search list.
:P

36 avanti  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:19:31pm

re: #24 darthstar

They already have.

Too wide a brush stroke, there lots of rational folks in the fly over states, many right here.

37 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:19:42pm

re: #18 Cato the Elder

The fallen brohters who come back to Jesus are forgiven.

It’s the unrepentant gays that they want to export.

What is the gayest country in the world? I think we should import soldiers from them…

Where has Ted Haggard been lately?

38 middy  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:20:14pm

re: #28 windsagio

Atheists and Fundamentalist Christians always feel the most discriminated against >>

Depends on where you live, I guess….

39 webevintage  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:20:41pm

re: #24 darthstar

They already have.

But I don’t want to live in JesusLand.

40 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:21:03pm

re: #24 darthstar

They already have.

Phew, we are safe.

41 windsagio  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:21:17pm

Goddammit, it looks to be an interesting thread finally, and I have a (&$@#$ staff meeting. You guys (and SFZ) have fun!

42 Varek Raith  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:21:25pm

University of Minnesota Study on American Attitudes Towards Atheists & Atheism

This group does not at all agree with my vision of American society…

Atheist: 39.6%
Muslims: 26.3%
Homosexuals: 22.6%
Hispanics: 20%
Conservative Christians: 13.5%
Recent Immigrants: 12.5%
Jews: 7.6%


I would disapprove if my child wanted to marry a member of this group….

Atheist: 47.6%
Muslim: 33.5%
African-American 27.2%
Asian-Americans: 18.5%
Hispanics: 18.5%
Jews: 11.8%
Conservative Christians: 6.9%
Whites: 2.3%

43 darthstar  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:21:28pm

re: #36 avanti

Too wide a brush stroke, there lots of rational folks in the fly over states, many right here.

That’s a 2004 map.

44 windsagio  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:21:35pm

re: #38 middy

Operative word is ‘feel’ not ‘are’ >>

Poof!

45 wrenchwench  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:22:04pm

re: #23 middy

As a public atheist, I disagree.

What do we call the atheist haters? Skeptiphobes?

46 wrenchwench  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:23:25pm

re: #44 windsagio

Operative word is ‘feel’ not ‘are’ >>

Poof!

I was thinking that was the inoperative word.

47 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:23:34pm

re: #34 windsagio

You know its true!

Double Bah!!

Hey, there are places atheists can’t be elected because of their disbelief. Can’t say that of Christians.

48 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:24:04pm

re: #36 avanti

Too wide a brush stroke, there lots of rational folks in the fly over states, many right here.

Why, I resemble that comment!

49 Gus  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:24:10pm

re: #23 middy

As a public atheist, I disagree.

Never mind I think I understand what you mean now. I’m an atheist too but I don’t see the bigotry against atheists as being equal to gays. Atheism, like any other philosophy as well as beliefs are mutable while in many cases being gay is an immutable characteristic.

50 ShaunP  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:24:55pm

re: #47 b_sharp

Double Bah!!

Hey, there are places atheists can’t be elected because of their disbelief. Can’t say that of Christians.

Try POTUS…

51 middy  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:25:40pm

re: #47 b_sharp


Hey, there are places atheists can’t be elected because of their disbelief.

Yes. I don’t believe I’m eligible for public office in Texas because I don’t believe in a “Supreme Being.”

Of course, it would be easy to just say I do, like half the “Christians” that I know.

52 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:26:12pm

re: #47 b_sharp

Double Bah!!

Hey, there are places atheists can’t be elected because of their disbelief. Can’t say that of Christians.

Sure you can. A Christian couldn’t get elected to any position in, say, Saudi Arabia.

/then again, neither could an atheist, so I guess that one’s a draw

53 Olsonist  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:27:07pm

re: #23 middy

As a public atheist, I disagree.

As another public atheist, I agree with your disagreement. I’d say that homophobia is about average on the public bigotry index. Racism is somewhat higher. As ugly and addled as the Spriggs are, acceptance of homosexuality is improving considerably.re: #51 middyI don’t live in Texas but I do believe in Halle Berry. Do I qualify?

54 middy  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:27:10pm

re: #49 Gus 802

Never mind I think I understand what you mean now. I’m an atheist too but I don’t see the bigotry against atheists as being equal to gays. Atheism, like any other philosophy as well as beliefs are mutable while in many cases being gay is an immutable characteristic.

Like I said, it depends on where you live. People in Minnesota shrug. People in Texas look at me like I just ate a baby.

55 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:28:26pm

re: #51 middy

Yes. I don’t believe I’m eligible for public office in Texas because I don’t believe in a “Supreme Being.”

Of course, it would be easy to just say I do, like half the “Christians” that I know.

Lies work for politicians in general, why buck the system?

56 middy  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:28:57pm

re: #55 b_sharp

Point.

57 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:29:48pm

re: #52 Slumbering Behemoth

Sure you can. A Christian couldn’t get elected to any position in, say, Saudi Arabia.

/then again, neither could an atheist, so I guess that one’s a draw

Dude, you just rolled them there goal posts right out of the continent. :)

58 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:30:34pm

I do wonder whether they prefer a Supreme Being that preferred to mess with butterflies and daffodils, or one that was all for lasers from 8 o’clock on Day 1?

:)

59 Mark Pennington  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:30:49pm

I’d prefer to throw them out of the United States and keep the gays.

Duty calls. Have a great day, Lizards.

60 Gus  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:30:55pm

re: #54 middy

Like I said, it depends on where you live. People in Minnesota shrug. People in Texas look at me like I just ate a baby.

Yes, but no one was ever denied visitation rights for being an atheist. No one was ever denied spousal benefits because they were an atheist. Being atheist in the military is clearly defended in the Constitution while being gay is not.

You can be sitting in a barracks and watch a Pat Condell or Christopher Hitchens video and other may look over you shoulder and say “right on.” That wouldn’t be the response if you were sitting in your barracks browsing Outfront or any other GLBT website.

61 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:31:37pm

re: #54 middy

Like I said, it depends on where you live. People in Minnesota shrug. People in Texas look at me like I just ate a baby.

Did you?

Eat a baby I mean.

I thought we weren’t supposed to do that outside our religious ceremonies.

62 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:32:35pm

re: #60 Gus 802

Yes, but no one was ever denied visitation rights for being an atheist. No one was ever denied spousal benefits because they were an atheist. Being atheist in the military is clearly defended in the Constitution while being gay is not.

You can be sitting in a barracks and watch a Pat Condell or Christopher Hitchens video and other may look over you shoulder and say “right on.” That wouldn’t be the response if you were sitting in your barracks browsing Outfront or any other GLBT website.

I’m always misremembering “GLBT” as “GBLT”.

Mmmm. Bacon.

63 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:33:10pm

re: #60 Gus 802

Yes, but no one was ever denied visitation rights for being an atheist. No one was ever denied spousal benefits because they were an atheist. Being atheist in the military is clearly defended in the Constitution while being gay is not.

You can be sitting in a barracks and watch a Pat Condell or Christopher Hitchens video and other may look over you shoulder and say “right on.” That wouldn’t be the response if you were sitting in your barracks browsing Outfront or any other GLBT website.

I’m just glad I’m not an atheist and gay. That would be a bummer.

64 Gus  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:33:16pm

re: #62 Cato the Elder

I’m always misremembering “GLBT” as “GBLT”.

Mmmm. Bacon.

I’ve done that on occasion.

65 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:35:12pm

gay spelled backwards is yag. The anagram of gay is ayg, or yga. gay rhymes with crochet.

66 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:37:50pm

re: #64 Gus 802

I’ve done that on occasion.

[Cato goes to deli, orders a GBLT]

[counter attendant] “What does the ‘G’ stand for, sir?”

[Cato] “Guacamole.”

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:38:21pm

re: #65 cliffster

gay spelled backwards is yag. The anagram of gay is ayg, or yga. gay rhymes with crochet.

Atheist spelled backward is tsiehta. That might mean something in Chinese.

68 middy  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:39:06pm

re: #60 Gus 802

Yes. You make some good points. I believe you are correct that gays are affected more negatively by bigotry than atheists are, in most cases.

I just disagree that “Homophobia is the last stronghold of the public bigot.”

And I will say that I have heard several people express the sentiment that a Christian homosexual is preferable to an atheist.

69 Varek Raith  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:39:33pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

Atheist spelled backward is tsiehta. That might mean something in Chinese.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.
That might mean something.
:P

70 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:39:53pm

We shouldn’t export gays. They just need to be trained.

71 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:40:18pm

Crazy Pam, Robert Spencer and the Thomas More Law Center are suing the city of New York for rejecting their stupid bus advertisements.

72 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:40:21pm

Random thought about Rand Paul:

Does he think it’s wrongly interfering in private business that we make food producers declare the ingredients of their goods on the label?

73 bluecheese  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:40:43pm

Every time I load LGF, my quicktime app fires up.

kinda irritating.

74 webevintage  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:40:54pm

re: #70 cliffster

We shouldn’t export gays. They just need to be trained.

I love Big Gay Al’s boatride!

75 middy  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:40:54pm

re: #61 b_sharp

Did you?

Eat a baby I mean.

I thought we weren’t supposed to do that outside our religious ceremonies.

Not where anyone could see me. And I think you meant “anti-religious ceremonies”….

76 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:40:59pm

re: #68 middy

Yes. You make some good points. I believe you are correct that gays are affected more negatively by bigotry than atheists are, in most cases.

I just disagree that “Homophobia is the last stronghold of the public bigot.”

And I will say that I have heard several people express the sentiment that a Christian homosexual is preferable to an atheist.

slow down…let’s not get sloppy enough to equate “preferable” to “bigoted”.

I prefer to vote for republicans. it does not mean that i am bigoted against democrats.

77 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:41:44pm

re: #72 Cato the Elder

Random thought about Rand Paul:

Does he think it’s wrongly interfering in private business that we make food producers declare the ingredients of their goods on the label?

Snake oil is a proud American tradition and the Federal Government needs to keep out of it.

78 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:42:23pm

re: #75 middy

Not where anyone could see me. And I think you meant “anti-religious ceremonies”…

Not according to many theists.

79 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:42:45pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

Atheist spelled backward is tsiehta. That might mean something in Chinese.

Peter Sprigg anagram: Egg Stripper

80 ShaunP  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:42:59pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

Atheist spelled backward is tsiehta. That might mean something in Chinese.

Anagram for athiest:

Hates It

81 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:44:59pm

re: #76 Aceofwhat?

slow down…let’s not get sloppy enough to equate “preferable” to “bigoted”.

I prefer to vote for republicans. it does not mean that i am bigoted against democrats.

It does if there is a little spittle dripping off your chin when you say demoncrat, or gay, or homosexual, or … atheist.

82 syrius  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:45:26pm

Free trips to exotic lands!
I’ll say I’m gay…get exported to where I want to go. Find Jesus, revert back to being hetero, call up the FRC for a free trip back! Awesome!

83 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:45:34pm

re: #77 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Snake oil is a proud American tradition and the Federal Government needs to keep out of it.

Yeah, but I stopped buying snake oil once they banned cocaine as an ingredient.

84 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:46:22pm

re: #82 syrius

Free trips to exotic lands!
I’ll say I’m gay…get exported to where I want to go. Find Jesus, revert back to being hetero, call up the FRC for a free trip back! Awesome!

We could call them “Gaycations”.

85 SpaceJesus  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:46:27pm

fun article about Vaughn Ward and Palin over at the NY Times

[Link: opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com…]

86 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:46:50pm

I’m afraid I am bigoted against many Republicans. Or is it that I just don’t like them?

87 webevintage  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:48:27pm

When posting a story about Palin on the LGF pages which category should one use?
I sat there for a few min before I choose wingnuts…but don’t really think that is the proper one.

88 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:48:30pm

re: #86 prairiefire

I’m afraid I am bigoted against many Republicans. Or is it that I just don’t like them?

That depends. Bigotry implies unreasonably unreasoned dislike. How reasoned is your dislike?

89 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:49:14pm

re: #87 webevintage

When posting a story about Palin on the LGF pages which category should one use?
I sat there for a few min before I choose wingnuts…but don’t really think that is the proper one.

Politicians?

90 lawhawk  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:49:14pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

Huh? They’re suing even though the NYC MTA didn’t find that the ads violated their policy? Guess they want even more attention… although similar ads were yanked by the Miami MTA, but were reinstituted after lawsuits were filed…

91 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:49:15pm

re: #87 webevintage

When posting a story about Palin on the LGF pages which category should one use?
I sat there for a few min before I choose wingnuts…but don’t really think that is the proper one.

Close enough.

92 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:49:30pm

re: #81 b_sharp

It does if there is a little spittle dripping off your chin when you say demoncrat, or gay, or homosexual, or … atheist.

Ah, there it is. The “if”.

yes.

I agree…it’s amazing what can be true if we first suppose any random thing…

93 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:49:51pm

Homosexuals pose the biggest threat to repressed homosexuals who go to fgreat lengths to pose and posture as advocates of “family values” in order to hide their repressed longings.

Could you fetch my bags, please?

94 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:49:59pm

So the Sprigg prig is an idiot who would like to deport gays. I can’t find where that is the stated policy of the FRC, and I’d bet that a poll of Values Voters, if you could get one, wouldn’t support it either.
He’s probably a deeply closeted latent lurker at the nearest man bar./

95 lostlakehiker  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:50:07pm

What he said, evidently in response to a question about a proposal to strike from U.S. immigration law a provision against allowing homosexual immigrants:

“I would much prefer to export homosexuals from the United States, than to import them into the United States, because we believe that homosexuality is destructive to society.”

I don’t understand his logic. No anchor babies to worry about this way.
/taking it seriously

96 wrenchwench  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:50:13pm

re: #86 prairiefire

I’m afraid I am bigoted against many Republicans. Or is it that I just don’t like them?

I’m registered as a Republican. If you liked me before you knew that, and don’t now, it’s bigotry. Since you said “many” and not “all”, I’m guessing it’s not necessarily their Republicanhood that makes you not like some of ‘em.

/sorry if I’m taking snark too seriously

97 Vambo  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:50:27pm

re: #19 windsagio

New NatGeo special:

“Here we see the traditional migration of the gays, as they come pouring into the bay to spawn.”

ah, memories of Provincetown….

98 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:51:27pm

re: #97 Vambo

ah, memories of Provincetown…

We wouldn’t have to put up a border fence to keep illegal gay immigrants out, just build a Stonewall…

99 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:51:32pm

re: #95 lostlakehiker
He’s an idiot, but to say that he wants to deport them is parsing to a degree… he was voicing a hypothetical either/or.
Still a bigot.

100 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:52:03pm

re: #98 ralphieboy

We wouldn’t have to put up a border fence to keep illegal gay immigrants out, just build a Stonewall…

couldn’t we just cover it with bad drapes//

101 webevintage  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:52:18pm

re: #89 prairiefire

Politicians?

But is she one?

102 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:52:25pm

re: #99 tradewind

He’s an idiot, but to say that he wants to deport them is parsing to a degree… he was voicing a hypothetical either/or.
Still a bigot.

How about, “homosexuality is destructive to society”? That’s no good eh

103 tnguitarist  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:52:51pm

Some nutjobs I know are going crazy because they say Obama isn’t attending the wreath laying ceremony at Arlington. Anyone know anything about this?

104 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:53:15pm

re: #98 ralphieboy
Or explain that stirrup pants are now in style.
’ Because there’s never an excuse for stirrup pants! ‘/ Kurt.

105 lostlakehiker  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:53:21pm

re: #68 middy

Yes. You make some good points. I believe you are correct that gays are affected more negatively by bigotry than atheists are, in most cases.

I just disagree that “Homophobia is the last stronghold of the public bigot.”

And I will say that I have heard several people express the sentiment that a Christian homosexual is preferable to an atheist.

Well, that would be the standard Christian take. From a Christian perspective, one more Christian sinner is all you ever get when you gain a convert, so why worry overmuch about which particular sin he’s most into? Adultery is much more serious, being a breach of commandment law, and that’s a perennial favorite among heteros.

106 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:53:22pm

re: #99 tradewind

He’s an idiot, but to say that he wants to deport them is parsing to a degree… he was voicing a hypothetical either/or.
Still a bigot.

Leave it to you to find even the most tenuous defense of a wingnut.

And here I thought I was the Jesuit around here.

107 drbuhd  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:53:26pm

Nice background there. Had to head to the local public library to find some books?

108 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:53:27pm

re: #103 tnguitarist

Some nutjobs I know are going crazy because they say Obama isn’t attending the wreath laying ceremony at Arlington. Anyone know anything about this?

we mocked the nontroversy yesterday…but you’re welcome to pile on…

109 Vambo  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:53:48pm

re: #103 tnguitarist

Some nutjobs I know are going crazy because Obama

…fill in the freakin’ blank.

what else is new. :P

110 rwdflynavy  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:53:52pm

re: #61 b_sharp

Did you?

Eat a baby I mean.

I thought we weren’t supposed to do that outside our religious ceremonies.


Did you bring enough for the whole class?
//

111 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:55:32pm

re: #96 wrenchwench

I’m registered as a Republican. If you liked me before you knew that, and don’t now, it’s bigotry. Since you said “many” and not “all”, I’m guessing it’s not necessarily their Republicanhood that makes you not like some of ‘em.

/sorry if I’m taking snark too seriously

Thanks for the nuance. I do look at it as an opinion after the fact. Meaning, I dislike Karl Rove, Ari Fleisher, Dick Chaney, 22% of folks in the state of Texas, because of the Republican defined actions they have taken.
I like most of the middle aged, suburan white folks I live around, and statistically they are most likely Republican.
I did have a healthy dose of snark thrown in as well. I volunteered for 6th grade Field Day today. I’ve been around solid snark all day.

112 lostlakehiker  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:56:12pm

re: #110 rwdflynavy

Did you bring enough for the whole class?
//

We humans eat babies all the time, from a certain point of view. Raspberries are baby raspberry bushes. Caviar is baby fish.

113 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:56:19pm

re: #90 lawhawk

Huh? They’re suing even though the NYC MTA didn’t find that the ads violated their policy? Guess they want even more attention… although similar ads were yanked by the Miami MTA, but were reinstituted after lawsuits were filed…

Very odd. Spencer posted a PDF of their complaint. I’m not sure exactly what they’re suing over.

114 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:56:36pm

re: #101 webevintage

But is she one?

I think that having served in public office, yes. Now, that is a broad brush.

115 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:56:51pm

re: #87 webevintage

When posting a story about Palin on the LGF pages which category should one use?
I sat there for a few min before I choose wingnuts…but don’t really think that is the proper one.

Until “Grifters” becomes a category, you’re stuck with wingnuts or politics I’m afraid.

116 lostlakehiker  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:57:23pm

re: #4 darthstar

Not any more…they scrubbed him from their website.

Down the memory hole!

117 Fozzie Bear  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:57:31pm

There is simply no other explanation for me that makes sense than that these guys are deeply closeted self-hating gays.

WHY THE HELL DO YOU CARE WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH THEIR GENITALS?!?!?!?!

118 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:58:03pm

re: #103 tnguitarist
He’s going home to Chi-town, but sending Biden in his place…. a triumph of hope over experience./
Personally, if I were military, I’d rather have Biden….. I believe he has much more respect for the uniform.

119 Renaissance_Man  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:58:39pm

re: #72 Cato the Elder

Random thought about Rand Paul:

Does he think it’s wrongly interfering in private business that we make food producers declare the ingredients of their goods on the label?

I’m pretty sure that Paul, and any who profess the libertarian view, haven’t really thought about anything like that. Because that would imply thinking, and considering how philosophy interacts with the world. I’ve yet to see any libertarian defender answer a straight question about their philosophy interacting with the world in any sort of realistic or difficult fashion. They invariably retreat to some canned response or platitude that doesn’t have any bearing on the question. And then they pretend that quotations are a valid substitute for argument.

120 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:59:12pm

re: #106 Cato the Elder
There’s no defending his views, they’re bad enough without heaping more onto them.
For the record, I think DADT should be ended without fanfare, and I doubt there would be much fallout.
Behavior, not sexual preference, should be the standard for military service.

121 Olsonist  Thu, May 27, 2010 12:59:31pm

Arguably, bigot comes from German, bei and gott: by God.

122 tnguitarist  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:00:22pm

re: #118 tradewind

So, he’s the first president to ever miss the ceremony?

123 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:00:24pm

re: #117 Fozzie Bear
Probably in a large number of cases you’re spot on.
Others are just misinformed, or prejudiced from upbringing.

124 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:01:18pm

re: #122 tnguitarist
No. But the first who didn’t serve in the military to miss it… Clinton was careful to attend all eight years.
I think he wants to avoid the DADT protests that might occur.

125 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:01:30pm

re: #117 Fozzie Bear

There is simply no other explanation for me that makes sense than that these guys are deeply closeted self-hating gays.

WHY THE HELL DO YOU CARE WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH THEIR GENITALS?!?!?!?!

They are afraid of what they might find themselves doing with their own genitals unless they keep their inner urges bound in a tightly-drawn moral corset.

126 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:01:38pm

re: #92 Aceofwhat?

Ah, there it is. The “if”.

yes.

I agree…it’s amazing what can be true if we first suppose any random thing…

It really isn’t a random supposition.

The point being made is the high likelihood of anyone expressing a preference for one of two currently somewhat ostracized groups being bigoted against at least one of them. It isn’t quite the same as discussing which flavour of pudding you prefer.

127 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:02:01pm

re: #121 Olsonist

Arguably, bigot comes from German, bei and gott: by God.

apocrypha.

Its roots are in Old French.

128 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:02:16pm

re: #122 tnguitarist

So, he’s the first president to ever miss the ceremony?

No. Cheney did it for Bush when Bush was at the Ranch. He’s going to the Abraham Lincoln cemetary in IL to honor the veterans buried there.

nontroversy.

129 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:03:39pm

re: #128 Stanley Sea

No. Cheney did it for Bush when Bush was at the Ranch. He’s going to the Abraham Lincoln cemetary in IL to honor the veterans buried there.

nontroversy.


At least he isn’t laying a wreath in Bitburg…

130 Steevlak  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:04:06pm

I was going to comment about how crazy this is, but then a homosexual climbed in through my window and raped me.

131 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:04:22pm

re: #87 webevintage
You might consider
Personal Bete Noire, or Really Gets Under My Skin./

132 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:04:53pm

re: #126 b_sharp

It really isn’t a random supposition.

The point being made is the high likelihood of anyone expressing a preference for one of two currently somewhat ostracized groups being bigoted against at least one of them. It isn’t quite the same as discussing which flavour of pudding you prefer.

presuming bigotry on the very thin evidentiary standard you make here is…unbecoming.

there is enough actual bigotry in the world without our presuming it of those who have “preferences”.

133 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:05:33pm

re: #128 Stanley Sea
Cheney went for Bush twice. But then, Dubya had a different relationship with the military.

134 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:07:44pm

re: #133 tradewind

Cheney went for Bush twice. But then, Dubya had a different relationship with the military.


The one thing I don’t get is why Arlington is the end all. There are no lesser veteran’s cemeteries across the country and no lesser veterans.

Nontroversy fueled by ODS.

135 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:09:38pm

re: #132 Aceofwhat?

presuming bigotry on the very thin evidentiary standard you make here is…unbecoming.

there is enough actual bigotry in the world without our presuming it of those who have “preferences”.

As usual you are right, my apologies if I offended anyone.

136 tnguitarist  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:09:51pm

re: #133 tradewind

You mean, he was a Republican so it was ok that he missed?

137 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:10:27pm

re: #133 tradewind

Cheney went for Bush twice. But then, Dubya had a different relationship with the military.

How was Bush’s relationship with the military different than the one with Obama?

138 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:11:04pm

re: #137 prairiefire

How was Bush’s relationship with the military different than the one with Obama?


Bush dressed up in a flight suit and marched down the deck of a carrier…

139 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:11:18pm

re: #137 prairiefire

Bush has no relationship with Obama…Doh!
/

140 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:11:23pm

re: #73 bluecheese
Mine too, it’s the oil cam feed.

141 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:11:57pm

re: #136 tnguitarist
Oh yeah, exactly.

142 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:12:29pm

re: #139 reloadingisnotahobby

Bush has no relationship with Obama…Doh!
/

Thank you. I noticed the atrocious grammar after I had posted.

143 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:12:42pm

re: #135 b_sharp

As usual you are right, my apologies if I offended anyone.

no, no offense - just a good discussion!

144 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:12:55pm

re: #137 prairiefire

re: #138 ralphieboy

Is these real questions ?
Or…are ya just being cute?

145 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:13:22pm

re: #133 tradewind

Cheney went for Bush twice. But then, Dubya had a different relationship with the military.

you’re on your own here…yikes…

146 Olsonist  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:14:53pm

re: #133 tradewind

Cheney went for Bush twice. But then, Dubya had a different relationship with the military.

And Cheney had a different relationship with the military as well.

147 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:14:56pm

re: #144 reloadingisnotahobby

re: #138 ralphieboy

Is these real questions ?
Or…are ya just being cute?

I would like to read what folks have to say about it, really.

148 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:17:52pm

re: #137 prairiefire
First, he was an AF reserve pilot, so he served in it.
Second, they loved him, because they knew the feeling was mutual.
According to the WaPo, Obama’s relationship with the military is ’ mixed ‘… and former military personnel have ’ had a hard time serving in his administration ‘. Then again, we are in the middle of two wars.
He should probably show up.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

149 tnguitarist  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:17:59pm

re: #141 tradewind

Obama is still laying a wreath at a ceremony honoring fallen soldiers. I’m curious what W was doing when he missed.

150 Renaissance_Man  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:18:16pm

re: #144 reloadingisnotahobby

re: #138 ralphieboy

Is these real questions ?
Or…are ya just being cute?

I too am curious as to whether President Bush really did have a totally different relationship with the military, or if it’s just a case of Red Facts.

151 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:18:49pm

re: #149 tnguitarist

Obama is still laying a wreath at a ceremony honoring fallen soldiers. I’m curious what W was doing when he missed.

meeting with the families of four fallen soldiers, or something along those lines.

152 celticdragon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:19:07pm

re: #8 Gus 802

Homophobia is the last stronghold of the public bigot.

There is a reason why I own guns.

Every now and then, one of these idiots decides to go “Leviticus” on some unsuspecting woman with a short haircut or a guy who “doesn’t look quite right”…

Fuck that.

153 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:19:34pm

re: #149 tnguitarist
Probably the same at a cemetery in TX.
I’m sure you can google it if you’re actually ’ curious’.

154 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:19:50pm

re: #147 prairiefire
IMHO….
G.W.Bush has/had genuine heart felt love and respect for the the military.
He didn’t need a”Special “day to honor them.
His actions after the Fort Hood shooting speaks Volumes of his
continuing relationship with the Military.
I didn’t always agree with him…but disingenuous about
the Military? Never!

155 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:20:00pm

re: #148 tradewind

First, he was an AF reserve pilot, so he served in it.
Second, they loved him, because they knew the feeling was mutual.
According to the WaPo, Obama’s relationship with the military is ’ mixed ‘… and former military personnel have ’ had a hard time serving in his administration ‘. Then again, we are in the middle of two wars.
He should probably show up.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

He is showing up at a military cemetery.

156 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:20:11pm

re: #152 celticdragon
Easy, big guy…..

157 boredtechindenver  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:20:20pm

re: #125 ralphieboy

They are afraid of what they might find themselves doing with their own genitals unless they keep their inner urges bound in a tightly-drawn moral corset.

They need to remember, it isn’t gay if its your wife that is “pegging” you.

158 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:20:32pm

re: #148 tradewind

why does it matter whether he honors fallen soldiers in DC or Chicago again?

159 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:21:11pm

re: #154 reloadingisnotahobby

IMHO…
G.W.Bush has/had genuine heart felt love and respect for the the military.
He didn’t need a”Special “day to honor them.
His actions after the Fort Hood shooting speaks Volumes of his
continuing relationship with the Military.
I didn’t always agree with him…but disingenuous about
the Military? Never!

So, Obama is being disingenuous towards the Military?

160 mich-again  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:21:41pm

I’d bet my left nut that Peter Sprigg is hiding an entire collection of skeletons in his closet. The more “holier than thou” a person is, the greater the chance that they are trying to compensate for being a sick twisted evil bastard.

161 tnguitarist  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:21:47pm

re: #158 Aceofwhat?

Any other time, people would be crying about politicians only caring what happens in D.C.

162 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:21:48pm

I’m sorry …but I find it unlikely that Obama wouldn’t rather be golfing!

163 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:22:20pm

re: #162 reloadingisnotahobby

I’m sorry …but I find it unlikely that Obama wouldn’t rather be golfing!

that’s what I’m going to be doing.

164 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:22:31pm

re: #154 reloadingisnotahobby

IMHO…
G.W.Bush has/had genuine heart felt love and respect for the the military.
He didn’t need a”Special “day to honor them.
His actions after the Fort Hood shooting speaks Volumes of his
continuing relationship with the Military.
I didn’t always agree with him…but disingenuous about
the Military? Never!

Did you see Obama’ eulogy at the memorial for the Ft. Hood soldiers???

Forgotten already?

165 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:22:48pm

re: #162 reloadingisnotahobby

I’m sorry …but I find it unlikely that Obama wouldn’t rather be golfing!

Bullshit.

166 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:22:49pm

re: #155 prairiefire
Fine.
It’s just one opinion, that he should probably lay the wreath in Arlington, since he’s the CIC of military that is involved in two fighting wars at the moment. He ought to welcome the opportunity to show support in an atmosphere where he is not universally seen as the most supportive.
Then again, maybe it’s too much drama for Obama.

167 Four More Tears  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:22:54pm

re: #158 Aceofwhat?

why does it matter whether he honors fallen soldiers in DC or Chicago again?

He should attend them all!/

168 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:23:02pm

re: #162 reloadingisnotahobby

I’m sorry …but I find it unlikely that Obama wouldn’t rather be golfing!

That’s your opinion. I think he would rather be plugging the oil hole, he just doesn’t know what to use.

169 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:23:47pm

re: #166 tradewind

Fine.
It’s just one opinion, that he should probably lay the wreath in Arlington, since he’s the CIC of military that is involved in two fighting wars at the moment. He ought to welcome the opportunity to show support in an atmosphere where he is not universally seen as the most supportive.
Then again, maybe it’s too much drama for Obama.

Or not enough drama for you.

170 Renaissance_Man  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:24:03pm

re: #158 Aceofwhat?

why does it matter whether he honors fallen soldiers in DC or Chicago again?

Apparently, it matters because the military know that Obama hates them.

171 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:24:37pm

re: #166 tradewind

Fine.
It’s just one opinion, that he should probably lay the wreath in Arlington, since he’s the CIC of military that is involved in two fighting wars at the moment. He ought to welcome the opportunity to show support in an atmosphere where he is not universally seen as the most supportive.
Then again, maybe it’s too much drama for Obama.

Arlington! Arlington! Forget it if your grandpa is buried in another military cemetery.

172 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:24:52pm

re: #165 Jeff In Ohio

Bullshit.

why? you’ve never heard the phrase, “I’d rather be golfing”, which applies to pretty much everything?

173 tnguitarist  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:25:17pm

re: #172 cliffster

I hate golf.

174 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:25:33pm

re: #172 cliffster

why? you’ve never heard the phrase, “I’d rather be golfing”, which applies to pretty much everything?

What are you talking about?

175 Four More Tears  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:25:55pm

re: #172 cliffster

why? you’ve never heard the phrase, “I’d rather be golfing”, which applies to pretty much everything?

Meh. I can’t stand golf. Waste of good land.

176 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:26:49pm

re: #173 tnguitarist

re: #175 JasonA

you two are messed up in the head.

177 Slap  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:27:09pm

Regarding the laying of the wreath….

Snopes sez….

FYI.

178 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:27:14pm

re: #164 Stanley Sea
A little late, IMO.
Better than a eulogy would have been an atmosphere that would have allowed the brass to have booted Dr Hasan out on his ass for treason-spouting and general unfitness ….without fear of being called profiling bigots.

179 Renaissance_Man  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:27:34pm

re: #164 Stanley Sea

Did you see Obama’ eulogy at the memorial for the Ft. Hood soldiers???

Forgotten already?

No, that was disingenuous, because he didn’t really mean it. That was just a photo op because he’s in permanent campaign mode. Our troops could see the insincerity. That’s part of why their relationship with him is so tense.

180 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:27:59pm

re: #177 Slap

Regarding the laying of the wreath…

Snopes sez…

FYI.

Ah, it started with Michael Savage.

181 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:28:23pm

re: #171 Stanley Sea
I have two uncles buried there, one of whom served in the Johnson administration.
Granddaddys, nope.

182 Slap  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:28:32pm

re: #180 Stanley Sea

That didn’t escape my notice….

183 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:28:55pm

re: #158 Aceofwhat?

why does it matter whether he honors fallen soldiers in DC or Chicago again?

Nope. It’s a nothing issue. Obama is doing his duty as Bush did his.

184 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:28:56pm

re: #166 tradewind

And I love that WaPo article. Where did Erik the Red serve again? McDonalds?

Fucking classic.

185 mich-again  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:29:24pm

re: #173 tnguitarist

I hate golf.

I play maybe once a year. Its a waste of time and money for a hack like me.

186 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:29:25pm

re: #179 Renaissance_Man

No, that was disingenuous, because he didn’t really mean it. That was just a photo op because he’s in permanent campaign mode. Our troops could see the insincerity. That’s part of why their relationship with him is so tense.


Obama readmitted the journalists that bush banned from photographing see the flag-draped coffins returning to Dover AFB, and even posed for a photo saluting them.


Bush wore a flight suit and marched down the deck of a carrier.

187 Four More Tears  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:29:35pm

re: #180 Stanley Sea

Ah, it started with Michael Savage Wiener.

ftfy

188 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:30:20pm

I hate golf with the heat of a thousand suns.

hat tip FBV

189 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:30:25pm

re: #183 Dark_Falcon

Nope. It’s a nothing issue. Obama is doing his duty as Bush did his.

i know. i just don’t know if tradewind knows…

190 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:31:08pm

re: #188 prairiefire

I hate golf with the heat of a thousand suns.

hat tip FBV

hey, now, i make those pants look good;)

191 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:31:13pm

re: #184 Jeff In Ohio
Erik the Red , whoever that is, didn’t write the article. Anna Kornblut did, and she quoted five or six sources, with differing opinions.
So your point?

192 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:31:30pm

re: #189 Aceofwhat?

i know. i just don’t know if tradewind knows…

If there is a chance to rag on Obama for reasons however tenuous and irrelevant, it will be taken.

There are plenty of valid reasons to take issue with him, but that calls for reasoned discourse and rational responses. Why waste time on that?

193 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:31:41pm

re: #188 prairiefire

I hate golf with the heat of a thousand suns.

hat tip FBV

what the hell is wrong with you people?

194 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:32:33pm

re: #179 Renaissance_Man

No, that was disingenuous, because he didn’t really mean it. That was just a photo op because he’s in permanent campaign mode. Our troops could see the insincerity. That’s part of why their relationship with him is so tense.

POE!

195 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:32:52pm

re: #190 Aceofwhat?

I missed the Roddick match! Just heard he reached the 3rd round.

196 blueraven  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:32:59pm

re: #133 tradewind

Cheney went for Bush twice. But then, Dubya had a different relationship with the military.

First you say Obama is the only president not to attend who has no military service. Then you excuse Bush for not attending because he has a different kind of relationship with the military.
I suspect what you mean is; its ok if a republican does it, because well…everyone knows they are real Americans who love their country./

197 Four More Tears  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:33:07pm

re: #193 cliffster

what the hell is wrong with you people?

Well why exactly should we like golf?

198 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:33:40pm

re: #192 ralphieboy

If there is a chance to rag on Obama for reasons however tenuous and irrelevant, it will be taken.

There are plenty of valid reasons to take issue with him, but that calls for reasoned discourse and rational responses. Why waste time on that?

OTOH, responding to blanket statements with blanket statements can be a difficult way to make your point…

199 Four More Tears  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:33:47pm

re: #196 blueraven

You speak fluent Tradewind?

200 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:01pm

re: #192 ralphieboy
Way too much time spent on it, not any more of mine.

201 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:02pm

re: #197 JasonA

Well why exactly should we like golf?


Darts is the only civilized sport: you can play it with a beer in one hand and a cigarette in your fizz.

202 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:09pm

re: #193 cliffster

what the hell is wrong with you people?

I was a golf orphan. Forced to creep silently around the house while that incredibly stupid game was on the television.
No addressing the father figure on week end afternoons!

203 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:11pm

re: #178 tradewind

A little late, IMO.
Better than a eulogy would have been an atmosphere that would have allowed the brass to have booted Dr Hasan out on his ass for treason-spouting and general unfitness …without fear of being called profiling bigots.

True, but that attitude had grown up over a long period of time and is normal in America today. Promoting diversity is seen as a key goal and sometimes that means unfit people get retained. And sadly the Army could likely better afford to bury its soldiers killed by Hassan than it could have stood the horrific PR backlash from dismissing him.

204 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:18pm

re: #191 tradewind

List the 5 or 6 sources. I see 2, Erik Erickson of Red State and Paul Rieckhoff of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.

205 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:29pm

re: #199 JasonA


L O L

206 ShaunP  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:45pm

re: #179 Renaissance_Man

No, that was disingenuous, because he didn’t really mean it. That was just a photo op because he’s in permanent campaign mode. Our troops could see the insincerity. That’s part of why their relationship with him is so tense.

How dare the president use the troops as a photo op…

Image: bush_mission_accomplished.jpg

207 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:45pm

re: #198 Aceofwhat?

OTOH, responding to blanket statements with blanket statements can be a difficult way to make your point…


it was and remains a nontroversy.

208 celticdragon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:47pm

re: #156 tradewind

Easy, big guy…

I’m a “she”, thank you very much.

The risk of being bashed is understood by gay men and women as well as transgendered people.

Being in the wrong place at the wrong time gets you beaten, and often even tortured and killed. Something like 60 % of trans women report being physically assaulted and/or raped. I have been stalked and threatened several times. I have had to flee for my life from bus stops on two occasions, which is why I will never take public transportation any more.

I keep two assault rifle at home, and I am getting a CCW where I live. My next weapon purchase will likely be a Ruger P series handgun, and that will be expressly to defend my self and my family in public.

The Family Research Council releases statements against violence, but then make unbelievable claims like this which directly encourage violence, as well as supporting despicable laws in Africa that criminalize GLBT people and encourage the use of gaybaiting to ‘slander’ other people and rally murderous machete lynch mobs.

I am not willing to be another GLBT violence statistic. I have been seconds away from being just that, and I am not willing to bet my and my family’s safety on luck and law enforcement.

209 Renaissance_Man  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:51pm

re: #196 blueraven

First you say Obama is the only president not to attend who has no military service. Then you excuse Bush for not attending because he has a different kind of relationship with the military.
I suspect what you mean is; its ok if a republican does it, because well…everyone knows they are real Americans who love their country./

That’s exactly what is meant. ‘Bush had a different relationship with the military me.’

210 mich-again  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:57pm

re: #188 prairiefire

I hate golf with the heat of a thousand suns.


My favorite guy to play golf with is the cheater who doesn’t count all his strokes, kicks the ball away from trees with the show wedge, takes Mulligans on bad T shots, and fluffs up the lie in the rough … and then brags about his score after its all over. Dude. your score is meaningless when you cheat. just shut up already.

Yeah, I miss golf a lot. /

211 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:34:59pm

re: #200 tradewind

Way too much time spent on it, not any more of mine.

And I thank you.

212 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:35:09pm

re: #197 JasonA

Well why exactly should we like golf?

Why do you like chocolate? Oh wait, let me guess, you don’t like chocolate..

213 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:35:34pm

re: #199 JasonA

You speak fluent Tradewind?

LOL.

214 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:35:48pm

re: #197 JasonA

Well why exactly should we like golf?

What’s to hate about golf?
Unless of course you happen to stink at it.

215 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:27pm

re: #206 ShaunP

How dare the president use the troops as a photo op…

Image: bush_mission_accomplished.jpg

Thank you for not posting the one with the flight suit bunched up crotch.

216 Four More Tears  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:36pm

re: #212 cliffster

Why do you like chocolate? Oh wait, let me guess, you don’t like chocolate..

Only if it has ?Milk” in its name. None of that dark or white stuff for me, thank you very much.

217 celticdragon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:45pm

re: #170 Renaissance_Man

Apparently, it matters because the military know that Obama hates them.

That was a fairly despicable and unworthy comment.

218 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:37:15pm

re: #210 mich-again

My favorite guy to play golf with is the cheater who doesn’t count all his strokes, kicks the ball away from trees with the show wedge, takes Mulligans on bad T shots, and fluffs up the lie in the rough … and then brags about his score after its all over. Dude. your score is meaningless when you cheat. just shut up already.

Yeah, I miss golf a lot. /

How exactly do you claim he cheated?

219 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:37:20pm

re: #215 Stanley Sea

Thank you for not posting the one with the flight suit bunched up crotch.


I still have visions of General Santa Ana marching into the smoking ruins of the Alamo with a banner hanging from the parapets reading “Mission Accomplished”…

220 Four More Tears  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:37:35pm

re: #217 celticdragon

I don’t think he meant it like that.

221 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:38:06pm

re: #195 Stanley Sea

I missed the Roddick match! Just heard he reached the 3rd round.

i have the day off…got to see the last set. tough sledding - la terre battue was really wet and slow, which isn’t his game, but he toughed it out!

he should be ok until he gets to Ferrer…that guy is good on clay…

222 What, me worry?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:38:07pm

Woot Woot Gus!

223 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:38:57pm

re: #208 celticdragon

I’m a “she”, thank you very much.

The risk of being bashed is understood by gay men and women as well as transgendered people.

Being in the wrong place at the wrong time gets you beaten, and often even tortured and killed. Something like 60 % of trans women report being physically assaulted and/or raped. I have been stalked and threatened several times. I have had to flee for my life from bus stops on two occasions, which is why I will never take public transportation any more.

I keep two assault rifle at home, and I am getting a CCW where I live. My next weapon purchase will likely be a Ruger P series handgun, and that will be expressly to defend my self and my family in public.

The Family Research Council releases statements against violence, but then make unbelievable claims like this which directly encourage violence, as well as supporting despicable laws in Africa that criminalize GLBT people and encourage the use of gaybaiting to ‘slander’ other people and rally murderous machete lynch mobs.

I am not willing to be another GLBT violence statistic. I have been seconds away from being just that, and I am not willing to bet my and my family’s safety on luck and law enforcement.

If that pistol features injection molded polymer, you might look into alternative colors. Some such pistols are actually available in pink (they really are), green, blue, gold, etc. Just an funny idea, not trying to be a pest.

224 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:39:42pm

re: #212 cliffster

Why do you like chocolate? Oh wait, let me guess, you don’t like chocolate..

Golf is enjoyable. Chocolate is enjoyable.

Chocolate on the the golf grip isn’t so enjoyable.

Gotta keep your club immaculate.

225 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:39:49pm

re: #207 ralphieboy

it was and remains a nontroversy.

i agree. so i was asking a specific question to drill down to the heart of the matter…

226 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:39:51pm

re: #217 celticdragon

That was a fairly despicable and unworthy comment.

I’m pretty sure he was using sarcasm to illustrate the subtext of posts that suggest the military has more respect of Bush then Obama and Obama is disrespecting the military by honoring veterans in Il. rather then Arlington.

227 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:40:03pm

re: #204 Jeff In Ohio
Ryan Galluci, and Ed O’Keefe, also quoted ’ other veterans ‘.
I’m done with this. Your post implied that it was some sort of piece by Redstate guy, and it most certainly was not.

228 celticdragon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:40:07pm

re: #220 JasonA

I don’t think he meant it like that.

Gotcha. My bad.

229 mich-again  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:40:26pm

re: #218 Spare O’Lake

How exactly do you claim he cheated?

LOL! exactly. Those guys don’t even blink an eye when they cheat. And I don’t really care if someone cheats. Just don’t go brag about the score afterward.

230 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:40:35pm

re: #217 celticdragon

That was a fairly despicable and unworthy comment.

i believe that sarcasm was implied…

231 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:40:52pm

re: #220 JasonA

I don’t think he meant it like that.

gmta, good sir…

232 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:41:26pm

re: #227 tradewind

Ryan Galluci, and Ed O’Keefe, also quoted ’ other veterans ‘.
I’m done with this. Your post implied that it was some sort of piece by Redstate guy, and it most certainly was not.

I’m sorry, I thought you read the article you used to back up your claims. My mistake.

233 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:42:02pm

re: #219 ralphieboy

I still have visions of General Santa Ana marching into the smoking ruins of the Alamo with a banner hanging from the parapets reading “Mission Accomplished”…

That’s actually somewhat apt. Santa Ana had banned slavery and the Texans seceded from Mexico in part to retain their slaves. Bush similarly went into Ira to punish a malfactor and liberate the oppressed. The different is that Bush did not order a “no prisoners” policy nor did he engage in deliberate massacre.

234 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:42:05pm

re: #229 mich-again

LOL! exactly. Those guys don’t even blink an eye when they cheat. And I don’t really care if someone cheats. Just don’t go brag about the score afterward.


Oh, go ahead and let him brag about his score - preferably to the fisherman who just caught a nine-pounder on the first cast.

235 celticdragon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:42:06pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

If that pistol features injection molded polymer, you might look into alternative colors. Some such pistols are actually available in pink (they really are), green, blue, gold, etc. Just an funny idea, not trying to be a pest.

LOL!

I really like the P93, but I want something in .40 S&W. I’ll stick with basic black to go with my evening wear and handbag… :)

236 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:42:15pm

re: #224 b_sharp

Golf is enjoyable. Chocolate is enjoyable.

Chocolate on the the golf grip isn’t so enjoyable.

Gotta keep your club immaculate.

Very good point. That same phenomena occurs, even more pronounced, with hot dogs.

237 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:42:48pm

re: #117 Fozzie Bear

There is simply no other explanation for me that makes sense than that these guys are deeply closeted self-hating gays.

WHY THE HELL DO YOU CARE WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH THEIR GENITALS?!?!?!?!

Because Jesus never played doctor with any of the disciples. Seriously.

238 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:42:57pm

re: #233 Dark_Falcon

That’s actually somewhat apt. Santa Ana had banned slavery and the Texans seceded from Mexico in part to retain their slaves. Bush similarly went into Ira to punish a malfactor and liberate the oppressed. The different is that Bush did not order a “no prisoners” policy nor did he engage in deliberate massacre.


Apt in that they both though that hostilities were as good as over at that point…

239 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:42:59pm

re: #203 Dark_Falcon

..sadly the Army could likely better afford to bury its soldiers killed by Hassan than it could have stood the horrific PR backlash from dismissing him.

… I totally get your point, DF, but that statement ( not your statement, the concept ) is just wrong on so many levels. And too sad to contemplate.

240 celticdragon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:43:37pm

re: #230 Aceofwhat?

i believe that sarcasm was implied…

I corrected the downding on the comment. Thanks.

241 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:44:15pm

re: #232 Jeff In Ohio
So your version whited out Ryan Galluci’s quote, and failed to credit Ed O’ Keefe?/
Check.

242 Slap  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:44:25pm

re: #208 celticdragon

The effect of their commentary and pronouncements is substantial.

Here’s what always chaps my ass about that crowd: many are fond of using the execrable statement: “hate the sin, love the sinner”. And they don’t get how much of a problem that really is — when the “sin” happens to be part of one’s core identity, they’re expressing hate for the “sinner”, not love. Disingenuous poop.

And what the hell are they doing even TEACHING the concept of hate in such a way?

(NOTE: the group to whom I am referring are those of a Christian bent who would support and encourage walking colonic slime like the Family Research Council. Those who are not in this hateful group are completely outside the target area of this rant.)

243 blueraven  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:45:05pm

re: #199 JasonA

You speak fluent Tradewind?

Its pretty easy to learn. Obama = Always Bad, Wrong, blah blah blah…

244 mojo9  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:46:07pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout
already have ‘em:

www.gaycations.com/

245 mich-again  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:46:44pm

I do enjoy the scenery and the peace and quiet at a nice golf course. And the creative original combinations of profanity and expletives that only golf can bring out in otherwise calm rational people.

246 celticdragon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:46:50pm

re: #203 Dark_Falcon

True, but that attitude had grown up over a long period of time and is normal in America today. Promoting diversity is seen as a key goal and sometimes that means unfit people get retained. And sadly the Army could likely better afford to bury its soldiers killed by Hassan than it could have stood the horrific PR backlash from dismissing him.

After the train wreck talk that Hassan gave at that conference we all heard about on NPR, the Army could have canned him and taken his commission. No problem.

None of his colleagues at the time wanted to be the first one to raise the issue, although speculation that he might be a religious spree killer was well known.

247 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:46:55pm

re: #238 ralphieboy

Apt in that they both though that hostilities were as good as over at that point…

Correct. The difference is that Bush was able to avoid a San Jancino type of defeat, and eventually found a General who could really win the war.

248 tradewind  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:47:07pm

re: #243 blueraven

Its pretty easy to learn.


But punctuation is hard.

249 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:47:59pm

re: #233 Dark_Falcon

That’s actually somewhat apt. Santa Ana had banned slavery and the Texans seceded from Mexico in part to retain their slaves. Bush similarly

went into Ira[q] to punish a malfactor and liberate the oppressed

. The different is that Bush did not order a “no prisoners” policy nor did he engage in deliberate massacre.

I thought he went in to destroy Sadam’s ability to attack the US with WMDs.

250 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:48:57pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

Correct. The difference is that Bush was able to avoid a San Jancino type of defeat, and eventually found a General who could really win the war.

But nobody caught on to the other point: Mission accomplished…Alamo Mission, get it?

(sometimes I even make myself laugh)

251 Fozzie Bear  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:49:06pm

re: #249 b_sharp

It depends which rationale you buy into. They had one for every occasion.

252 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:49:11pm

re: #239 tradewind

re: #246 celticdragon

The Army’s officers were career-oriented, and none of them wanted the black-mark of being called a “bigot”. Nor did the Army want to fire Hassan. Had he been fired, he might well have gone to the press, which would have taken his side.

253 blueraven  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:49:22pm

re: #248 tradewind

But punctuation is hard.

And sarc tags are over used by some who like to cover their ass.

254 celticdragon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:49:41pm

re: #242 Slap

The effect of their commentary and pronouncements is substantial.

Here’s what always chaps my ass about that crowd: many are fond of using the execrable statement: “hate the sin, love the sinner”. And they don’t get how much of a problem that really is — when the “sin” happens to be part of one’s core identity, they’re expressing hate for the “sinner”, not love. Disingenuous poop.

And what the hell are they doing even TEACHING the concept of hate in such a way?

(NOTE: the group to whom I am referring are those of a Christian bent who would support and encourage walking colonic slime like the Family Research Council. Those who are not in this hateful group are completely outside the target area of this rant.)

I don’t understand it myself, and I was brought up in a family and church with those very beliefs.

255 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:50:33pm

re: #245 mich-again

I do enjoy the scenery and the peace and quiet at a nice golf course. And the creative original combinations of profanity and expletives that only golf can bring out in otherwise calm rational people.

serenity now!!!

256 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:50:40pm

re: #245 mich-again

I do enjoy the scenery and the peace and quiet at a nice golf course. And the creative original combinations of profanity and expletives that only golf can bring out in otherwise calm rational people.

Personally, I like the drinks & driving the golf cart. I’m never allowed to take all my shots, as we would be there for way too long.

257 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:51:05pm

re: #251 Fozzie Bear

It depends which rationale you buy into. They had one for every occasion.

2 from column A, 3 from column B?

258 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:51:20pm

re: #252 Dark_Falcon

re: #246 celticdragon

The Army’s officers were career-oriented, and none of them wanted the black-mark of being called a “bigot”. Nor did the Army want to fire Hassan. Had he been fired, he might well have gone to the press, which would have taken his side.


Add to that the fact that the Army is currently short over 2,000 majors, which make them even more hesitant to create yet another vacancy in the ranks, even if it meant keeping on a known deranged looney.

259 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:52:35pm

re: #256 Stanley Sea

Personally, I like the drinks & driving the golf cart. I’m never allowed to take all my shots, as we would be there for way too long.

Sounds like my wife. We just wave the group behind us on.

260 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:52:39pm

re: #241 tradewind

So your version whited out Ryan Galluci’s quote, and failed to credit Ed O’ Keefe?/
Check.

You know Ryan Galluci said “We don’t really see the big deal, so long as he’s taking the time to honor our fallen war heroes throughout Memorial Day weekend,” and Ed O’KEefe is a writer that contributed content to the story.

I’m a little unsure how these ‘sources’ add to the narrative that the military is upset that Obama will not be at Arlington. In fact, they don’t.

261 celticdragon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:53:13pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

Correct. The difference is that Bush was able to avoid a San Jancino type of defeat, and eventually found a General who could really win the war.

Barely. Up until fall of 2006, the neocon choir was savagely denouncing anybody who suggested that things had even gone mildly off track in Iraq.

We damned near did loose the whole thing under the weight of our own propaganda…and it is not at all clear that we will really have “won” anything in the end except a kleptocratic Iranian ally getting ready for the big Sunni vs Shia cage match when we finally leave.

262 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:53:24pm

re: #257 b_sharp

2 from column A, 3 from column B?

you sunk my battleship!

#$!@#$!@ atheist

263 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:53:33pm

re: #249 b_sharp

I thought he went in to destroy Sadam’s ability to attack the US with WMDs.

The issue was Saddam’s possession of WMDs. No one though he would or could us them against the US proper. The emphasis on WMDs was mostly intended to provide political cover for Tony Blair.

264 mich-again  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:53:45pm

re: #256 Stanley Sea

Personally, I like the drinks & driving the golf cart. I’m never allowed to take all my shots, as we would be there for way too long.

Golf etiquette says pick up the ball after the 10th stroke on a hole and move on to the next hole.

265 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:53:51pm

re: #256 Stanley Sea

Personally, I like the drinks & driving the golf cart. I’m never allowed to take all my shots, as we would be there for way too long.

oh, was that you I hit in the leg with my ball the other day? Sorry about that..

266 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:53:52pm

re: #250 ralphieboy

But nobody caught on to the other point: Mission accomplished…Alamo Mission, get it?

(sometimes I even make myself laugh)

Sorry, I couldn’t respond earlier because I died laughing.

267 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:54:31pm

re: #266 Spare O’Lake

Sorry, I couldn’t respond earlier because I died laughing.


Mission accomplished, then…

268 celticdragon  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:54:36pm

re: #252 Dark_Falcon

re: #246 celticdragon

The Army’s officers were career-oriented, and none of them wanted the black-mark of being called a “bigot”. Nor did the Army want to fire Hassan. Had he been fired, he might well have gone to the press, which would have taken his side.

Could be, but I doubt we will see similar reticence in the future.

269 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:55:07pm

re: #265 cliffster

oh, was that you I hit in the leg with my ball the other day? Sorry about that..

Did I laugh or was I pissed?

270 webevintage  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:55:25pm

Are the fallen soldiers somehow different in Chicago then at Arlington?
Are they less heroes?
Do they “count” less and so make the President seem like he is dissing the military?
I didn’t know there was some type of rating system that infers more worth on Americans who’s families choose to have them buried at Arlington instead of their home town military cemetery.

Or does it only matter when the President is Obama…..

271 Renaissance_Man  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:56:24pm

re: #241 tradewind

So your version whited out Ryan Galluci’s quote, and failed to credit Ed O’ Keefe?/
Check.

The version you link to has Ryan Galluci supporting the President. His opinion is in fact contrary to your premise. Ed O’Keefe is not quoted with anything at all, just credited as a part author. He is a Washington Post blogger who part wrote the article, not a veteran with an opinion.

So, in fact, only two opinions are in this article that are critical of President Obama’s visit to Chicago. One is Erick son of Erick, who is a hack and a wingnut and who criticises literally everything Obama does, whether it be good, bad, or a choice in breakfast cereal. His opinion, such as it may be, is virtually irrelevant. The other is head of a veteran’s organisation, whose criticism is that he is ‘disappointed’. That’s incendiary stuff. Wow.

It is obvious that in your eyes, all things to do with the President are evil, immoral, unethical, toxic, or all of the above. But is it so bad now that you can read a quote supporting him, and see it as criticising him instead?

272 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:57:43pm

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

The issue was Saddam’s possession of WMDs. No one though he would or could us them against the US proper. The emphasis on WMDs was mostly intended to provide political cover for Tony Blair.

OK, so the real reason was to liberate the masses from a despot?

273 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:58:33pm

re: #271 Renaissance_Man

So says you.

274 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:58:47pm

re: #269 Stanley Sea

Did I laugh or was I pissed?

Yes.

275 tigger2005  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:59:03pm

“They need to be kicked out, they’re too much of a temptation to all of us self-hating hypocritical gays who keep ourselves shut up in the closet where we belong, except when we slip up with a rent boy or two!”

276 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:59:19pm

re: #269 Stanley Sea

Did I laugh or was I pissed?

You threw your beer at me. I didn’t know if you were throwing it in anger, or saying, “here, have a beer”

277 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 1:59:57pm

re: #271 Renaissance_Man

The version you link to has Ryan Galluci supporting the President. His opinion is in fact contrary to your premise. Ed O’Keefe is not quoted with anything at all, just credited as a part author. He is a Washington Post blogger who part wrote the article, not a veteran with an opinion.

So, in fact, only two opinions are in this article that are critical of President Obama’s visit to Chicago. One is Erick son of Erick, who is a hack and a wingnut and who criticises literally everything Obama does, whether it be good, bad, or a choice in breakfast cereal. His opinion, such as it may be, is virtually irrelevant. The other is head of a veteran’s organisation, whose criticism is that he is ‘disappointed’. That’s incendiary stuff. Wow.

It is obvious that in your eyes, all things to do with the President are evil, immoral, unethical, toxic, or all of the above. But is it so bad now that you can read a quote supporting him, and see it as criticising him instead?

As a lefty, this tickles me pink.

278 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:00:17pm

re: #265 cliffster

oh, was that you I hit in the leg with my ball the other day? Sorry about that..

heh. i’ve come close to that a few times…for some reason, i hit the ball best when the group in front is at the far end of my typical distance…

279 Fozzie Bear  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:01:17pm

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

I don’t buy that for a second. There was dozens of confirmable lies told during the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, and this is the part of it that still chaps my ass. They lied their asses off to the American people, the UN, and the world, and nary a peep was heard from the right. To utter a complaint regarding the war at that time was to invite some asshole windbag to draw your patriotism into question.

THAT
was when the GOP started to really go off the rails. ODS is just a continuation of that willful disregard for reason.

280 Stanley Sea  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:03:25pm

re: #276 cliffster

You threw your beer at me. I didn’t know if you were throwing it in anger, or saying, “here, have a beer”

I was offering to you, of course! ha!

281 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:05:35pm

re: #278 Aceofwhat?

heh. i’ve come close to that a few times…for some reason, i hit the ball best when the group in front is at the far end of my typical distance…

I was playing the other day and up pretty close to the green - had to be 330, 340 from the tee. Ball comes bouncing past me from behind. I’m not going to diss a guy for hitting into me from that far away. For a variety of reasons.

282 Fozzie Bear  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:06:52pm

re: #279 Fozzie Bear

There were dozens of confirmable…. PIMF

283 Slap  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:07:30pm

re: #281 cliffster

Used to work at a car dealership across from a pitch-and-putt place. During the three years I was there, skulls were missed by inches on a half-dozen occasions, and we had to replace four windshields.

It was either really bad golfers, or intentional. But dangerous.

284 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:08:47pm

re: #282 Fozzie Bear

There were dozens of confirmable… PIMF


No, the original useage was acceptable: in dealing with the Iraq War, the word “lies” becomes a collective, mass noun….

285 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:10:56pm

re: #283 Slap

oops, that was a 6-iron.. I thought it was a 9-iron.

286 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:11:38pm

re: #279 Fozzie Bear

good grief

287 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:11:58pm

re: #272 b_sharp

OK, so the real reason was to liberate the masses from a despot?

That was one of them. Other reasons were to remove a hostile regime that made frequent trouble for its neighbors, and settle the festering issue of Iraq once and for all. The sanctions regime was failing and Bush decided the only way to resolve the issue was to get rid of Saddam.

288 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:12:02pm

re: #281 cliffster

I was playing the other day and up pretty close to the green - had to be 330, 340 from the tee. Ball comes bouncing past me from behind. I’m not going to diss a guy for hitting into me from that far away. For a variety of reasons.

good call…

289 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:12:57pm

re: #281 cliffster

I was playing the other day and up pretty close to the green - had to be 330, 340 from the tee. Ball comes bouncing past me from behind. I’m not going to diss a guy for hitting into me from that far away. For a variety of reasons.

and FWIW, if i hit it 250+ and straight, i’m smiling.

i doubt i’ve ever rolled one 300, even downhill with the wind at my back;)

290 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:14:25pm

re: #286 Aceofwhat?

good grief

Unvarnished leftism is always hard to hear if you aren’t a leftist.

291 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:15:13pm

re: #94 tradewind

So the Sprigg prig is an idiot who would like to deport gays. I can’t find where that is the stated policy of the FRC, and I’d bet that a poll of Values Voters, if you could get one, wouldn’t support it either.
He’s probably a deeply closeted latent lurker at the nearest man bar./

This is their stated policy:

Family Research Council believes that homosexual conduct is harmful to the persons who engage in it and to society at large, and can never be affirmed. It is by definition unnatural, and as such is associated with negative physical and psychological health effects. While the origins of same-sex attractions may be complex, there is no convincing evidence that a homosexual identity is ever something genetic or inborn. We oppose the vigorous efforts of homosexual activists to demand that homosexuality be accepted as equivalent to heterosexuality in law, in the media, and in schools. Attempts to join two men or two women in “marriage” constitute a radical redefinition and falsification of the institution, and FRC supports state and federal constitutional amendments to prevent such redefinition by courts or legislatures. Sympathy must be extended to those who struggle with unwanted same-sex attractions, and every effort should be made to assist such persons to overcome those attractions, as many already have.

292 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:15:17pm

re: #289 Aceofwhat?

and FWIW, if i hit it 250+ and straight, i’m smiling.

i doubt i’ve ever rolled one 300, even downhill with the wind at my back;)

I can hit the ball a long ways. On a good day, that’s a good thing. On a bad day… “Fore!”

293 Slap  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:15:23pm

re: #285 cliffster

lol….reminds me of a random thought I’ve had from time to time: given that so many people moan and complain about their golf game, shouldn’t there be a club called a bitching wedge?

294 cliffster  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:17:30pm

re: #293 Slap

lol…reminds me of a random thought I’ve had from time to time: given that so many people moan and complain about their golf game, shouldn’t there be a club called a bitching wedge?

that’s hilarious. Why haven’t I ever thought of that??

295 Slap  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:18:33pm

re: #294 cliffster

That’s a good question — I usually resist saying it, figuring that SOMEBODY musta beat me to it somewhere….

296 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:18:39pm

re: #124 tradewind

No. But the first who didn’t serve in the military to miss it… Clinton was careful to attend all eight years.
I think he wants to avoid the DADT protests that might occur.

I think we’re getting into splitting hairs now. The President may either serve in the military OR be obligated to attend the ceremony?

297 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:21:03pm

re: #133 tradewind

Cheney went for Bush twice. But then, Dubya had a different relationship with the military.

No. He didn’t. He was the Commander in Chief. So is Obama.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:22:12pm

re: #146 Olsonist

And Cheney had a different relationship with the military as well.

Well, he didn’t serve, and neither did Obama…

299 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:22:25pm

re: #287 Dark_Falcon

That was one of them. Other reasons were to remove a hostile regime that made frequent trouble for its neighbors, and settle the festering issue of Iraq once and for all. The sanctions regime was failing and Bush decided the only way to resolve the issue was to get rid of Saddam.

D_F, you know I consider you a bud, but this is historical revisionism.

The justification for going in was Sadam’s putative desire to manufacture atomic weapons so he could threaten Israel and the US, either directly or indirectly by supplying those weapons to terrorists. The idea it was some altruistic attempt to remove a bad man and a bad regime came after the invasion and with the failure to find any ability to manufacture nuclear weapons.

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:24:25pm

re: #153 tradewind

Probably the same at a cemetery in TX.
I’m sure you can google it if you’re actually ’ curious’.

And Obama is doing the same in his home state.

301 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:25:58pm

re: #299 b_sharp

D_F, you know I consider you a bud, but this is historical revisionism.

The justification for going in was Sadam’s putative desire to manufacture atomic weapons so he could threaten Israel and the US, either directly or indirectly by supplying those weapons to terrorists. The idea it was some altruistic attempt to remove a bad man and a bad regime came after the invasion and with the failure to find any ability to manufacture nuclear weapons.

The unwavering goal is to disarm Iraq, enforcing a string of previous Security Council resolutions that Baghdad has contemptuously ignored. The cost of letting that happen has been diminished authority for the United Nations and a growing danger that Iraq’s unconventional weapons will be used in war or passed on to terrorists. Mr. Bush has galvanized the Security Council to declare that its orders must now be obeyed and those dangers eliminated.

-New York Times, 2002…

i.e., what the entire world believed.

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:26:35pm

re: #162 reloadingisnotahobby

I’m sorry …but I find it unlikely that Obama wouldn’t rather be golfing!

That’s fine. What he is ACTUALLY doing, however, is attending a ceremony and laying a wreath.

303 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:27:09pm

re: #279 Fozzie Bear

I don’t buy that for a second. There was dozens of confirmable lies told during the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, and this is the part of it that still chaps my ass. They lied their asses off to the American people, the UN, and the world, and nary a peep was heard from the right. To utter a complaint regarding the war at that time was to invite some asshole windbag to draw your patriotism into question.

THAT
was when the GOP started to really go off the rails. ODS is just a continuation of that willful disregard for reason.

I just love the avalanche of historical revisionism.
Almost the entire leadership of the West thought Sadaam had WMD and that it was a good idea for the US to invade.

304 Aceofwhat?  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:28:23pm

re: #303 Spare O’Lake

I just love the avalanche of historical revisionism.
Almost the entire leadership of the West thought Sadaam had WMD and some believedthat it was a good idea for the US to invade.

fixed…

305 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:28:49pm

re: #166 tradewind

Fine.
It’s just one opinion, that he should probably lay the wreath in Arlington, since he’s the CIC of military that is involved in two fighting wars at the moment. He ought to welcome the opportunity to show support in an atmosphere where he is not universally seen as the most supportive.
Then again, maybe it’s too much drama for Obama.

Bush was also the CiC of a military fighting two wars. But since you’ve decided that he had nothing to prove, you’re ignoring the fact that Obama is doing exactly what Bush did.

I don’t get it. What has he done that is unsupportive of the troops?

306 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:29:03pm

re: #303 Spare O’Lake

I just love the avalanche of historical revisionism.
Almost the entire leadership of the West thought Sadaam had WMD and that it was a good idea for the US to invade.

Quite Concur.

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:29:12pm

re: #167 JasonA

He should attend them all!/

And if he doesn’t, it proves he is not a true patriot!

308 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:29:37pm

re: #303 Spare O’Lake

I don’t buy that for a second. There was dozens of confirmable lies told during the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, and this is the part of it that still chaps my ass. They lied their asses off to the American people, the UN, and the world, and nary a peep was heard from the right. To utter a complaint regarding the war at that time was to invite some asshole windbag to draw your patriotism into question.

I just love the avalanche of historical revisionism.
Almost the entire leadership of the West thought Sadaam had WMD and that it was a good idea for the US to invade.

How does your comment contradict the original?

309 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:31:49pm

Correction:


re: #303 Spare O’Lake

I don’t buy that for a second. There was dozens of confirmable lies told during the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, and this is the part of it that still chaps my ass. They lied their asses off to the American people, the UN, and the world, and nary a peep was heard from the right. To utter a complaint regarding the war at that time was to invite some asshole windbag to draw your patriotism into question.

I just love the avalanche of historical revisionism.
Almost the entire leadership of the West thought Sadaam had WMD and that it was a good idea for the US to invade.

How does your comment contradict the original?

310 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:32:14pm

re: #178 tradewind

A little late, IMO.
Better than a eulogy would have been an atmosphere that would have allowed the brass to have booted Dr Hasan out on his ass for treason-spouting and general unfitness …without fear of being called profiling bigots.

GAZE.

311 Renaissance_Man  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:32:34pm

re: #305 SanFranciscoZionist

Bush was also the CiC of a military fighting two wars. But since you’ve decided that he had nothing to prove, you’re ignoring the fact that Obama is doing exactly what Bush did.

I don’t get it. What has he done that is unsupportive of the troops?

He’s been rubbing his Democratness in their faces ever since he was elected. The obvious fact that he’s a Democrat is a clear insult to them. And you can’t forget that time he was a Democrat.

312 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:33:16pm

re: #311 Renaissance_Man

He’s been rubbing his Democratness in their faces ever since he was elected. The obvious fact that he’s a Democrat is a clear insult to them. And you can’t forget that time he was a Democrat.

Did he actually play a Democrat once?

313 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:34:19pm

re: #308 b_sharp

How does your comment contradict the original?

Read back to DF’s preceding comment for context, please, and then get back to me if you still can’t see what’s been going on.

314 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:36:33pm

re: #237 eclectic infidel

Because Jesus never played doctor with any of the disciples. Seriously.

“When Jesus said to his disciples: ‘Love one another, as I have loved you,’ he was a man, speaking to men. Obviously, he was condemning heterosexuality.”

;)

315 mich-again  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:41:54pm

re: #303 Spare O’Lake

I just love the avalanche of historical revisionism.
Almost the entire leadership of the West thought Sadaam had WMD and that it was a good idea for the US to invade.

Agreed. Apparently people choose to forget about the never ending game of cat and mouse in the no-fly zone (threoughout both Clinton terms), Saddam expelling UN inspectors, and the whole “crude for food” debacle that the UN was in charge of. The sanctions were a big joke to Hussein. And the other inconvenient fact is that Uday and Qusay would still be with us if not for the war so its not like we could have just waited till Saddam croaked and hoped for a better leader next time. Those two made pops look like a moderate.

Its a common tactic of the armchair quarterback to compare the debacle that the war turned out to be with some sanitized utopian vision instead of the realistic alternative outcome.

316 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:42:12pm

re: #313 Spare O’Lake

Read back to DF’s preceding comment for context, please, and then get back to me if you still can’t see what’s been going on.

Here is your comment:

I just love the avalanche of historical revisionism.
Almost the entire leadership of the West thought Sadaam had WMD and that it was a good idea for the US to invade.

The second sentence looks to be an explanation of the first.

However, nowhere did I see a claim that other countries did not believe the story told by the US and UK.

What has been said is the original reason to invade Iraq was not to liberate the populace from a dictator. That reason was not given until after no WMDs were found.

You didn’t even address that point, you went off into areas no one was arguing about.

317 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:49:09pm

re: #315 mich-again

Agreed. Apparently people choose to forget about the never ending game of cat and mouse in the no-fly zone (threoughout both Clinton terms), Saddam expelling UN inspectors, and the whole “crude for food” debacle that the UN was in charge of. The sanctions were a big joke to Hussein. And the other inconvenient fact is that Uday and Qusay would still be with us if not for the war so its not like we could have just waited till Saddam croaked and hoped for a better leader next time. Those two made pops look like a moderate.

Its a common tactic of the armchair quarterback to compare the debacle that the war turned out to be with some sanitized utopian vision instead of the realistic alternative outcome.

Nobody did that here.

We were talking about the public justification for entering Iraq. The outcome is irrelevant, other than how it affected the professed justification.

318 tigger2005  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:53:50pm
What has been said is the original reason to invade Iraq was not to liberate the populace from a dictator. That reason was not given until after no WMDs were found.

You didn’t even address that point, you went off into areas no one was arguing about.

Nobody ever said anything about Saddam’s massacres of his own people, his persecution of the Kurds (isn’t that what the no-fly zone was about) or anything like that? Really?

Maybe Saddam’s brutality to his people wasn’t given as a reason for the invasion, but it certainly played into it. However, since there are a number of brutal dictatorships represented at the UN, it would have been harder to garner support for the invasion using that as a motivating factor.

The simple fact is, if intelligence agencies worldwide had not been pretty much unanimous in believing Saddam was developing WMDs, there would have been no invasion. 9/11 or no, Bush would not have been able to build coalition. He might have even found it difficult to get Blair on board.

In any case, Saddam was clearly in material violation of numerous UN resolutions. How many does it take before there are consequences? The sanctions regime was a complete failure.

319 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 27, 2010 2:54:23pm

re: #317 b_sharp

Nobody did that here.

We were talking about the public justification for entering Iraq. The outcome is irrelevant, other than how it affected the professed justification.

WMD’s were the main justification, though George W. Bush did cite freeing the populace as a goal as well. But the need to provide Tony Blair with political cover prevented the use of that argument as the primary one.

320 b_sharp  Thu, May 27, 2010 3:01:38pm

re: #319 Dark_Falcon

WMD’s were the main justification, though George W. Bush did cite freeing the populace as a goal as well. But the need to provide Tony Blair with political cover prevented the use of that argument as the primary one.

I’m sorry D_F, I don’t member that, and I was watching the lead up to the war fairly closely. All we heard in Canada was about the WMDs and what went on in the UN.

Once the fighting ended, we did hear about a number of other reasons, getting rid of Sadam for the people being one of them.

321 prairiefire  Thu, May 27, 2010 5:36:58pm

re: #261 celticdragon

Barely. Up until fall of 2006, the neocon choir was savagely denouncing anybody who suggested that things had even gone mildly off track in Iraq.

We damned near did loose the whole thing under the weight of our own propaganda…and it is not at all clear that we will really have “won” anything in the end except a kleptocratic Iranian ally getting ready for the big Sunni vs Shia cage match when we finally leave.

Thank you for the honesty!

322 lostlakehiker  Thu, May 27, 2010 7:06:49pm

re: #299 b_sharp

D_F, you know I consider you a bud, but this is historical revisionism.

The justification for going in was Sadam’s putative desire to manufacture atomic weapons so he could threaten Israel and the US, either directly or indirectly by supplying those weapons to terrorists. The idea it was some altruistic attempt to remove a bad man and a bad regime came after the invasion and with the failure to find any ability to manufacture nuclear weapons.

There were other reasons that weighed in peoples’ thinking, even if it was never articulated.

The sanctions were an ongoing expense, both economic and moral. Economically, that’s obvious. But the moral cost came from the fact that the direct impact of sanctions fell on Iraqi civilians who had no say in what Saddam did.

Whether they had worked or not, they were going to fail eventually. Sooner or later, there would be an end to them. But the Hussein regime was set to continue. Uday and Qusay, sons of Sam both, were waiting in the wings.

These kind of reasons figure in to what people do, though they never figure into what people say.


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