Outrageous Outrage of the Minute

Politics • Views: 5,742

I’ve been watching all week as the Republican Party and their right wing blogosphere lap dogs worked overtime to trump up some bogus accusations against Rep. Joe Sestak, accusations that have now fallen apart like wet tissue paper.

Just like the hundreds of similar nontroversies trumpeted by the right wing ever since Barack Obama was elected. My default assumption about every outrageous outrage that comes from the right these days is that it’s bogus — and I haven’t been wrong yet.

If you remember the fable about “The Boy Who Cried Wolf,” the moral of the story was that eventually people would stop paying attention to the boy, because he had exaggerated and lied so many times before. And then, of course, he’d be in deep trouble when there was a real wolf.

But in this dysfunctional right wing political climate, there are never any consequences for lying or promoting false outrages. They simply ignore the inevitable debunking, then move right on to the next phony story, as if they were never caught hyperventilating over nothing. Then they refer back to the phony story endlessly, as if it were never proven false.

There’s never a real wolf. Just cynical politicians and easily manipulated wingnut bloggers, feverishly enabling a party that’s become unmoored from reality.

Jump to bottom

165 comments
1 tnguitarist  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:09:30am

Exactly. I've been arguing with people on FB all week about this Memorial Day flap. Don't ask me why. I might as well be punching myself in the face. Why do people equate support for the military with indiscriminately throwing money at it? My idea of supporting troops is keeping them out of harm's way and bringing them home alive.

2 Kragar  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:11:31am

Remember the days when politics consisted of more than throwing out shit and seeing what sticks? When you actually had to have some kind of platform or ideas or real answers to problems?

I dont think the GOP is capable of that anymore.

3 blueraven  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:11:39am

FNC is still all over this. They will not give it up and are insisting this matter deserves a special prosecutor. They have gone so far past reporting the news into advocacy for the GOP, it ain't even funny.

4 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:12:29am

May I get a copyright on the term "De Jour Gate"?

5 Kragar  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:12:58am

re: #3 blueraven

FNC is still all over this. They will not give it up and are insisting this matter deserves a special prosecutor. They have gone so far past reporting the news into advocacy for the GOP, it ain't even funny.

They think not saying bless you after someone sneezes requires a special prosecutor.

6 Four More Tears  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:13:34am

re: #3 blueraven

FNC is still all over this. They will not give it up and are insisting this matter deserves a special prosecutor. They have gone so far past reporting the news into advocacy for the GOP, it ain't even funny.

It's more than just that. Sometimes it seems they're the ones steering the GOP.

7 Kragar  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:13:42am

re: #4 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

May I get a copyright on the term "De Jour Gate"?

They're still debating what the term should be. They're calling it Gategate.

8 Kragar  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:14:20am

I'm out, taking kids to the zoo.

9 researchok  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:15:08am

NYT

"Even former Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey, appointed by President George W. Bush, said on Fox News on Friday that it was “highly questionable if there’s any crime” and that a prosecution “really is a stretch.”

10 Mark Pennington  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:15:23am

You hit the nail on the head with the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" analogy, Charles.
I cannot take a word they say seriously anymore. That isn't good because there may come a time when they have a legitimate point but very few will be listening or care.

11 Renaissance_Man  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:16:08am
But in this dysfunctional right wing political climate, there are never any consequences for lying or promoting false outrages. They simply ignore the inevitable debunking, then move right on to the next phony story, as if they were never caught hyperventilating over nothing. Then they refer back to the phony story endlessly, as if it were never proven false.

This is what I like to call a Red Fact. It's a pathetic form of argument - create false facts and memes, and then develop whole arguments and secondary memes from there. It's the same as how climate deniers first assume the Red Fact that the scientists are liars/frauds and have been proven wrong, and then develop arguments from there.

Red Facts are never proven false in the eyes of those who believe them. They form the basis of the alternate reality. There's no way to alter that belief structure save deprogramming.

I would love to hear more substantive and viable criticisms of Obama and the Administration, especially if they came with actual alternatives. But if you only hear drowning kittens and the death rattle of freedom when the President speaks, and if you object to everything from the logos of his agencies to his attending of his kids' soccer games, then you have no valid criticisms. You are not upset because of anything he says or does, or doesn't do. You are upset because he is President. And it's basically impossible to take any criticism you have seriously from then on.

12 Renaissance_Man  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:18:08am

re: #6 JasonA

It's more than just that. Sometimes it seems they're the ones steering the GOP.

They absolutely are. FOX and the Conservative cult media in general. The GOP is no longer a political party - they exist solely as political proxies for the current media-driven meme.

13 researchok  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:20:42am

Hollywood hellraiser Dennis Hopper dead at 74

Hollywood actor Dennis Hopper, best known for directing and starring in the 1969 cult classic “Easy Rider,” died Saturday at his home in Venice, California, from complications of prostate cancer, a friend told Reuters. Hopper was 74.

The hard-living screen icon died at 8:15 a.m. PDT , surrounded by family and friends, said the friend, Alex Hitz.

14 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:21:03am

As long as the GOP sees a net gain of seats in the 2010 elections, they are going to see it as a mandate to continue on this course until they have alienated the majority of voters and fall flat on their faces.

15 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:21:04am

re: #9 researchok

NYT


"Even former Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey, appointed by President George W. Bush, said on Fox News on Friday that it was “highly questionable if there’s any crime” and that a prosecution “really is a stretch.”

Well of course he did because if there was anything there then other prosecutors at other times in the last 30 years would have gone after other Presidents at the behest of the opposition party.

16 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:21:49am

The only thing I've seen regarding Rep. Sestak is the White House problem. Which wasn't about Sestak? Was about the White House. Turned out to be true.

What Sestak attacks have been going on? Or would I miss them not being from PA?

17 sagehen  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:21:53am

re: #6 JasonA

It's more than just that. Sometimes it seems they're the ones steering the GOP.

Sometimes?

18 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:21:54am
19 researchok  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:21:57am

re: #15 webevintage

"Even former Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey, appointed by President George W. Bush, said on Fox News on Friday that it was “highly questionable if there’s any crime” and that a prosecution “really is a stretch.”

Well of course he did because if there was anything there then other prosecutors at other times in the last 30 years would have gone after other Presidents at the behest of the opposition party.

True- but he didn't have to say anything.

20 avanti  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:23:12am

I'll accept but one criticism. Political horse trading has always been the norm and as was pointed out Reagan got some minor press for doing it. In so far as Obama promised to change that, he's failed, end of my criticism.

21 Cathypop  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:23:15am

re: #13 researchok

Hollywood hellraiser Dennis Hopper dead at 74


Oh Crap. I really like him.

22 wrenchwench  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:23:47am
But in this dysfunctional right wing political climate, there are never any consequences for lying or promoting false outrages.

Keep calling them out.

23 researchok  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:25:29am

re: #21 Cathypop

Oh Crap. I really like him.

I think everyone liked him.

24 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:25:55am

re: #21 Cathypop

Oh Crap. I really like him.

One of the greatest actors of all time...I loved him in Hoosiers
Rest in Peace Dennis

25 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:26:20am

re: #13 researchok

Hollywood hellraiser Dennis Hopper dead at 74

Let this serve as a PSA to men. Go see your doctor!

26 researchok  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:26:46am

re: #25 MandyManners

Let this serve as a PSA to men. Go see your doctor!

That's worth a double ding.

27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:27:15am

He's been very, very ill for quite a while.

He was in some great movies...

Blue Velvet (his character was referenced earlier this morning)
Easy Rider

Some absolute stinkers

Super Mario Brothers
Speed

I'm very glad I saw the great ones. Not so glad I saw the bad ones.

RIP, Dennis.

28 Racer X  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:27:18am

The Right hates Obama - no matter what he does.
The Left loves Obama - no matter what he does.

Exhibit A:
The AZ immigration law flap. The left gets all in a tizzy over what they perceive the law will do. OUTRAGE from the left! OUTRAGE from the Right because Obama criticized a law he never read.

Obama meets with members of the GOP - they want him to do more to secure the border and reduce related crime. He does not commit to anything. The next day he announces he is sending 1200 National Guard troops to help with border security, and will provide $500 Million in border funding.

Crickets from the Left. No outrage over the increase in troops.
Crickets from the Right. No props for increasing troops and funding to help with border security.

The guy just cannot win friends from the Right.

Obama could use some tips on how to politically spin things.

29 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:28:08am

Dennis Hopper was a real wolf.

30 researchok  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:28:17am

re: #27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He's been very, very ill for quite a while.

He was in some great movies...

Blue Velvet (his character was referenced earlier this morning)
Easy Rider

Some absolute stinkers

Super Mario Brothers
Speed

I'm very glad I saw the great ones. Not so glad I saw the bad ones.

RIP, Dennis.

As for the stinkers, hell, he had to make a living. He was blackballed for a long time.

31 wrenchwench  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:28:40am

re: #28 Racer X

Obama could use some tips on how to politically spin things.

Oh, man. I think he'd get criticized for that.

32 Obdicut  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:29:01am

The funniest-- and saddest-- part to me is the otherwise reasonable people who join in on this sort of thing out of a dislike for Obama or opposition to 'lefties' in general.

There are substantial areas to criticize Obama on. I don't understand why reasonable people are letting the morons lead the charge against him, and I really don't understand why they're following those morons, time after time again.

33 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:29:07am

re: #25 MandyManners

Let this serve as a PSA to men. Go see your doctor!


My husband is 50.
Last year his Doctor ask if he had ever had a PSA.
Nope never.
Did one.
Yep, cancer.
He is fine after a summer of radiation therapy and his PSA was down in Jan. so we are feeling good.

Guys, get a PSA each year.

34 blueraven  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:29:08am

It's not just Fox news trying to direct the narrative to bolster the GOP. Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight has been posting some interesting information about Rasmussen polls lately.


[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

35 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:29:43am

re: #30 researchok

As for the stinkers, hell, he had to make a living. He was blackballed for a long time.

Why?

36 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:30:16am

Dennis' portrayal of Frank Booth in "Blue Velvet" was one of the most brilliantly disturbing characters in any movie I've ever seen.

37 ryannon  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:30:53am

re: #13 researchok

Hollywood hellraiser Dennis Hopper dead at 74

Fare thee well, Dennis. And may your spirit keep rolling on....

38 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:30:59am

re: #33 webevintage

My husband is 50.
Last year his Doctor ask if he had ever had a PSA.
Nope never.
Did one.
Yep, cancer.
He is fine after a summer of radiation therapy and his PSA was down in Jan. so we are feeling good.

Guys, get a PSA each year.

Ummm...my PSA was "Public Service Announcement". What's your PSA?

39 Mark Pennington  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:31:42am

re: #23 researchok

I think everyone liked him.

Indeed. I know Cato admired him greatly.

40 avanti  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:32:05am

re: #34 blueraven

It's not just Fox news trying to direct the narrative to bolster the GOP. Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight has been posting some interesting information about Rasmussen polls lately.

[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

Read that yesterday, I always wondered about Rassmusen's being the go-to poll for Fox and the right, something seems odd.

41 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:32:09am

re: #38 MandyManners

Ummm...my PSA was "Public Service Announcement". What's your PSA?


Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA) Test

42 Renaissance_Man  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:33:19am

re: #28 Racer X

The Right hates Obama - no matter what he does.
The Left loves Obama - no matter what he does.

The guy just cannot win friends from the Right.

Obama could use some tips on how to politically spin things.

Oh please. 'The Left', whoever you think they may be, have frequently reacted angrily to what Obama does. The lack of a public option and support for drilling leap to mind. For the most part he continues to have support from his party, in large part because there is no real alternative. To insist that love for Obama is monolithic on 'the Left' is a wilful disregard of the facts.

And when the President is criticised from 'the Right' for everything from the logos of his agencies to his Christmas ornaments, it's ridiculous to suggest that the hate for him is in some way the fault of his 'spin'. You said it - they hate him no matter what he does. What possible action or words, other than resignation, can you conceive of that would 'spin' it to his favour in the minds of the culties?

43 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:33:29am

re: #41 webevintage

Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA) Test

Blood draw instead of turn-and-cough.

44 ryannon  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:33:41am

re: #35 MandyManners

Why?

He went head-on against Harry Cohen, the studios and the directors. People didn't do that back then.

45 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:34:17am

re: #27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

For me..Dennis will always be shooter..
I loved him..RIP
Holy Crap! The Fa/15's just flew out of Indy and back to base..(Mount Comfort? )
They rip the sky with thunder...Just a guess but I'm thinking the fly by at the track will be those studs in the morning at the race...

46 sagehen  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:34:24am

re: #28 Racer X

The Right hates Obama - no matter what he does.
The Left loves Obama - no matter what he does.

Exhibit A:
The AZ immigration law flap. The left gets all in a tizzy over what they perceive the law will do. OUTRAGE from the left! OUTRAGE from the Right because Obama criticized a law he never read.

Obama meets with members of the GOP - they want him to do more to secure the border and reduce related crime. He does not commit to anything. The next day he announces he is sending 1200 National Guard troops to help with border security, and will provide $500 Million in border funding.

Crickets from the Left. No outrage over the increase in troops.
Crickets from the Right. No props for increasing troops and funding to help with border security.

The guy just cannot win friends from the Right.

Obama could use some tips on how to politically spin things.


The left has never objected to securing the border -- their tizzy about the AZ bill is to do with law enforcement's treatment of people who are already here (and who may or may not have been from here since birth).

And the left has plenty of criticism for Obama -- they're upset about most of the Bush policies he's continuing (Gitmo especially), about supporting offshore drilling for a minute (I'll bet he regrets that himself right about now), about no public option in the health care bill, about how weak the financial regulation bill is looking to be, and if I gave it some thought I could come up with more.

47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:35:39am

re: #45 HoosierHoops

Rent "Blue Velvet" dude. It will blow your mind. Hopper was amazing.

48 b_sharp  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:36:28am

re: #25 MandyManners

Let this serve as a PSA to men. Go see your doctor!

Been there, done that. Hated every minute of it.

Bloody glad I'm clean though, my dad has had to have his prostate and bladder removed because of cancer.

49 Renaissance_Man  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:36:32am

re: #32 Obdicut

By the way, Rogue responded to that bit about 'private hospitals' last thread. Apparently his current story is that he meant 'private hospitals' to mean hospitals that have a private membership list, that are run like a private club. As if, somehow, that were relevant to the discussion.

50 researchok  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:36:33am

re: #32 Obdicut

The funniest-- and saddest-- part to me is the otherwise reasonable people who join in on this sort of thing out of a dislike for Obama or opposition to 'lefties' in general.

There are substantial areas to criticize Obama on. I don't understand why reasonable people are letting the morons lead the charge against him, and I really don't understand why they're following those morons, time after time again.

Excellent point.

By not dealing with the real issues, the Dems are hurting themselves. They appear to place ideology above governance.

I can understand rolling eyes over the Sestak affair. In fact, even some Dems want to get to the bottom of it (Ed Rendell, for example) but when all is said and done the administrations missteps in the Gulf is a much bigger and more important story.

You can criticize Obama about his handling of the spill and BP without that meaning you have abandoned him. He is not infallible and will never get it all right. He is not and will never be the messiah. That dopesn't mean he can't be a good president. This lesson has yet to be learned by many- including some around him.

51 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:36:39am

re: #47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Rent "Blue Velvet" dude. It will blow your mind. Hopper was amazing.

But skip Apocalypse Now", he is just playing a bad parody of himself there.

52 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:40:54am

re: #44 ryannon

He went head-on against Harry Cohen, the studios and the directors. People didn't do that back then.

Things have changed.

53 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:41:24am

re: #48 b_sharp

Been there, done that. Hated every minute of it.

Bloody glad I'm clean though, my dad has had to have his prostate and bladder removed because of cancer.

Don't you have to have it done routinely?

54 ryannon  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:41:25am

re: #35 MandyManners

Why?

More precisely:

That generation was full of actors with wild streaks, hard-partying reputations and defiant attitudes that cemented bad-boy personas as they collided hard with a Hollywood establishment reluctant to embrace the social changes rolling in around them.

One night on the set of “From Hell to Texas”, veteran director Henry Hathaway decided to break Hopper of his “Method” approach to his role, forcing him to do repeated retakes of an emotionally difficult scene.

The creative clash went on for 15 hours, leaving both men exhausted and Hopper close to a nervous breakdown when Hathaway finally called “Print” on Take 80.

You didn’t even question a director’s vision back then and 24 hours later Hopper was blacklisted by every studio in LA.


[Link: the-legion-of-decency.blogspot.com...]

55 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:43:23am

re: #54 ryannon

Hathaway sounds like a difficult bastard.

56 Racer X  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:47:59am

re: #42 Renaissance_Man

What possible action or words, other than resignation, can you conceive of that would 'spin' it to his favour in the minds of the culties?

None.

The "culties" will hate him no matter what he says or does.

Obama could use some tips on how to politically spin things.

Clearly true, as several posters have said he has gotten flak from both sides on mundane issues.

*When I say Left or Right, I'm generally speaking about the fringe of both.

57 ryannon  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:49:00am

re: #55 MandyManners

Hathaway sounds like a difficult bastard.

I don't really know. What I do know is that it was the collision of the 60s with old school Hollywood. There's an excellent documentary about this that I'll try to find...

58 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:49:12am

re: #56 Racer X

Notably last week... Chris Matthews and James Carville gave the President hell!

59 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:50:00am

C'mon y'all. Let's go to work!

60 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:51:14am

re: #43 MandyManners

Blood draw instead of turn-and-cough.

re: #53 MandyManners

Don't you have to have it done routinely?

They way it went hubby was his Dr. just did a routine blood test then when it showed high levels he went to a Urologist who felt around and said his prostate did seem enlarged then they did a biopsy.

61 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:52:59am

re: #57 ryannon

I don't really know. What I do know is that it was the collision of the 60s with old school Hollywood. There's an excellent documentary about this that I'll try to find...

Is that when the studio system was busted up?

62 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:53:43am

re: #60 webevintage

They way it went hubby was his Dr. just did a routine blood test then when it showed high levels he went to a Urologist who felt around and said his prostate did seem enlarged then they did a biopsy.

Why do men get all upset about it? Isn't it analogous to the annual pap smear?

63 b_sharp  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:55:38am

re: #53 MandyManners

Don't you have to have it done routinely?

I have to have the PSA done every year, but last year it indicated something was amiss so I had to go through a number of other more painful and embarrassing tests.

I did get to see the inside of my bladder.

64 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:56:04am

re: #58 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Notably last week... Chris Matthews and James Carville gave the President hell!

WTH? was that anyway?
It was odd and shrill and when did the President have to be our daddy or uber empathetic.
I just want someone who is smart and does his job and does not need to be coaxed out from under the desk when bad things happen.
Really, I don't need (unlike Tweety or Broder or Noonan or Dowd) a President who "understands my pain" just one who is one the job and has the proper people in place to show up when bad things happen.

65 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:56:57am

re: #62 MandyManners

Why do men get all upset about it? Isn't it analogous to the annual pap smear?

Meh.
Guys are babies.

66 b_sharp  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:57:55am

re: #62 MandyManners

Why do men get all upset about it? Isn't it analogous to the annual pap smear?

Yah, kinda. Except where the finger goes is supposed to be one way only.

67 Pythagoras  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:58:10am

The NY Times has pointred out, in an editorial, that Sistak could not legally take trhe job offered.

68 JeffM70  Sat, May 29, 2010 10:59:18am

The Beltway media deserves as much blame as right-wing bloggers do for treating these stories as if they had merit and then doing nothing to fact-check them. Look at Blumenthal. The whole Harvard swim team non-story originated in the Hartford Courant 35 years ago in which a former Harvard swim team captain said he remembered Blumenthal being on the swim team. There is no evidence Blumenthal ever made such a claim. Yet the NY Times and the Beltway media use it as an example of Blumenthal's serial lying problem.

69 prairiefire  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:00:40am

re: #57 ryannon

I don't really know. What I do know is that it was the collision of the 60s with old school Hollywood. There's an excellent documentary about this that I'll try to find...

"Easy Riders, Raging Bulls"[Link: www.comingsoon.net...]

70 ryannon  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:01:20am

re: #61 MandyManners

Is that when the studio system was busted up?

The studios had run out of steam. At the same time, there was this incredible generation of actors and directors waiting impatiently in the wings. After the success of "Easy Rider", the studios began to give them the opportunity to work. It saved the studio's collective ass. Other factors came to bear later on which led to the progressive dismantlement of the studios. If I can find the references to that documentary, you might want to take a look: it's surprisingly good.

71 Racer X  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:01:46am

re: #63 b_sharp

I did get to see the inside of my bladder.

You're kinda bendy.

72 Pythagoras  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:02:04am

re: #66 b_sharp

Yah, kinda. Except where the finger goes is supposed to be one way only.

A PSA test is a blood test (no finger involved). Get one and you'll know this.

73 Obdicut  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:02:48am

re: #50 researchok

I assume you mean the GOP in the first bit, but otherwise, spot-on.

74 ryannon  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:02:50am

re: #69 prairiefire

"Easy Riders, Raging Bulls"[Link: www.comingsoon.net...]

Thank you! I've seen it at least twice, but couldn't remember the name for the life of me. Anyone interested in what was going on back then should watch it. It's very well done.

75 dr. luba  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:03:10am

re: #33 webevintage

Routine PSA testing is controversial. Recent data suggests it may do more harm than good. From the NCI website:

"Using the PSA test to screen men for prostate cancer is controversial because it is not yet known for certain whether this test actually saves lives. Moreover, it is not clear that the benefits of PSA screening outweigh the risks of follow-up diagnostic tests and cancer treatments. For example, the PSA test may detect small cancers that would never become life threatening. This situation, called overdiagnosis, puts men at risk of complications from unnecessary treatment.

"The procedure used to diagnose prostate cancer (prostate biopsy) may cause harmful side effects, including bleeding and infection. Prostate cancer treatments, such as surgery and radiation therapy, may cause incontinence (inability to control urine flow), erectile dysfunction (erections inadequate for intercourse), and other complications. For these reasons, it is important that the benefits and risks of diagnostic procedures and treatment be taken into account when considering whether to undertake prostate cancer screening."

i.e. yes, the test picks up cancers, especially very early and small ones. But there is no good evidence that picking them up early actually changes long term outcomes, and there is evidence that treatment can cause a lot of harm (impotence, incontinence) in men who wouldn't have died from the disease if untreated.

76 b_sharp  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:03:47am

re: #71 Racer X

You're kinda bendy.

Well I did have the help of an endoscope.

77 Renaissance_Man  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:03:56am

re: #73 Obdicut

I assume you mean the GOP in the first bit, but otherwise, spot-on.

I don't believe he does mean that.

78 Obdicut  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:04:49am

re: #49 Renaissance_Man

Whatever. That's just an obvious sidestep. That's not what "private hospital" means.

79 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:05:24am

re: #63 b_sharp

I have to have the PSA done every year, but last year it indicated something was amiss so I had to go through a number of other more painful and embarrassing tests.

I did get to see the inside of my bladder.

Cool!

80 b_sharp  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:05:42am

re: #72 Pythagoras

A PSA test is a blood test (no finger involved). Get one and you'll know this.

You might want to read this post.

I was referring to a test done after the PSA.

81 ryannon  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:06:36am

Hey, Mandy:

82 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:06:41am

re: #65 webevintage

Meh.
Guys are babies.

I get that impression at times.

83 goddamnedfrank  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:06:52am

re: #62 MandyManners

Why do men get all upset about it? Isn't it analogous to the annual pap smear?

Men often dread the idea of being invaded, in any context. Our sexual junk is mostly on the outside and that helps form the male attitude, we're used to the idea that we know our own bodies well enough to get by. We go the the doctor less often, the idea of doing it annually often takes an outside influence to effect. Also, Prostate surgery often comes with a loss of sexual function, though that risk is lessened with modern techniques. If we even get to thinking that far ahead the consequences often scare many men into denial, they avoid knowledge and often postpone dealing with the problem.

The fact is that men were never really built to last, but we're learning.

84 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:07:04am

re: #72 Pythagoras

Hell, with the finger you don't have to wear the damn band-aid from the needle.

It is always a time to make your physician uncomfortable. That can be fun all by itself!

I had a friend who had his wife write "Put it here big boy" with a sharpie on his ass when he went in to have his check.

85 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:07:29am

re: #66 b_sharp

Yah, kinda. Except where the finger goes is supposed to be one way only.

You'd run screaming from a speculum.

86 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:07:30am

re: #75 dr. luba

Routine PSA testing is controversial. Recent data suggests it may do more harm than good. From the NCI website:

So what should men do?
Is a manual exam still the best choice?

87 TheQuis  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:07:38am

re: #28 Racer X

The Right hates Obama - no matter what he does.
The Left loves Obama - no matter what he does.

Exhibit A:
The AZ immigration law flap. The left gets all in a tizzy over what they perceive the law will do. OUTRAGE from the left! OUTRAGE from the Right because Obama criticized a law he never read.

Obama meets with members of the GOP - they want him to do more to secure the border and reduce related crime. He does not commit to anything. The next day he announces he is sending 1200 National Guard troops to help with border security, and will provide $500 Million in border funding.

Crickets from the Left. No outrage over the increase in troops.
Crickets from the Right. No props for increasing troops and funding to help with border security.

The guy just cannot win friends from the Right.

Obama could use some tips on how to politically spin things.

You're right in part, the dude can't win for losing. There have HARDLY been crickets about the national guard increase. John McCain was pissed there weren't more and several folks were lamenting that they want 5000 National Guardsmen there (I guess those same deficit hawks want the troops to be paid for in unicorn juice and fairy dust)

The left reacted to the troop increase in Arizona and I quote from an Obama Message board "Can someone let me know why we elected a Republican in 2008!"

Stuck in the middle with you.

88 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:07:47am

re: #78 Obdicut

Whatever. That's just an obvious sidestep. That's not what "private hospital" means.

It means my hospital. Now get the hell off my lawn!

89 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:08:22am

re: #70 ryannon

The studios had run out of steam. At the same time, there was this incredible generation of actors and directors waiting impatiently in the wings. After the success of "Easy Rider", the studios began to give them the opportunity to work. It saved the studio's collective ass. Other factors came to bear later on which led to the progressive dismantlement of the studios. If I can find the references to that documentary, you might want to take a look: it's surprisingly good.

Look forward to it!

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:08:37am

re: #67 Pythagoras

Why?

91 b_sharp  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:09:32am

re: #79 MandyManners

Cool!

The doc did it so fast (and a bit painfully, even though he injected some anaesthetic first) my first though was ; I would have appreciated a bit of foreplay.

92 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:09:57am

re: #69 prairiefire

"Easy Riders, Raging Bulls"[Link: www.comingsoon.net...]

What a cast!

93 b_sharp  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:11:10am

re: #85 MandyManners

You'd run screaming from a speculum.

No shit.

94 Pythagoras  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:12:04am

re: #80 b_sharp

You might want to read this post.

I was referring to a test done after the PSA.

My bad. Apology offered. I know someone who had the "many needles test" and then had to sit through and afternoon of briefings. He was a Marine O-6 and held up magnificantly -- but he was in real pain.

95 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:12:31am

re: #81 ryannon

Hey, Mandy:

[Video]

Thanks!

96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:12:58am

re: #93 b_sharp

No shit.

Fer sher.

97 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:13:29am

re: #83 goddamnedfrank

Men often dread the idea of being invaded, in any context. Our sexual junk is mostly on the outside and that helps form the male attitude, we're used to the idea that we know our own bodies well enough to get by. We go the the doctor less often, the idea of doing it annually often takes an outside influence to effect. Also, Prostate surgery often comes with a loss of sexual function, though that risk is lessened with modern techniques. If we even get to thinking that far ahead the consequences often scare many men into denial, they avoid knowledge and often postpone dealing with the problem.

The fact is that men were never really built to last, but we're learning.

They'd rather die of cancer than not get an erection?

Man, men are weird.

98 Racer X  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:14:12am

re: #84 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had a friend who had his wife write "Put it here big boy" with a sharpie on his ass when he went in to have his check.

Oh shit that is funny.

My suggestion:

"Exit Only"

99 Pythagoras  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:14:20am

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why?

I wish I knew. The whole this doesn't add up.

100 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:15:00am

re: #91 b_sharp

The doc did it so fast (and a bit painfully, even though he injected some anaesthetic first) my first though was ; I would have appreciated a bit of foreplay.

Ouch.

101 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:15:21am

re: #93 b_sharp

No shit.

Women rock.

102 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:15:34am

re: #97 MandyManners

They'd rather die of cancer than not get an erection?

Man, men are weird.

They are.
I was more worried about him dying and him more worried about sex.
WTF?
I could live without sex if we had to, but I'd rather not spend my next 30 years alone.

103 Pythagoras  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:16:11am

re: #99 Pythagoras

I wish I knew. The whole this doesn't add up.


I can't type -- or see this tiny monitor. "The whole thing. . ."

104 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:16:20am

re: #102 webevintage

They are.
I was more worried about him dying and him more worried about sex.
WTF?
I could live without sex if we had to, but I'd rather not spend my next 30 years alone.

Aw, that's sweet.

105 Gus  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:18:07am

'Easy Rider' actor Dennis Hopper dies
By Todd Leopold, CNN
May 29, 2010 2:09 p.m. EDT

RIP

106 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:18:26am

re: #104 MandyManners

Aw, that's sweet.

Thanks...he is a keeper.

Plus he is properly trained.
I cannot imagine at my age having to go out and find a new one that does not have a whole host of disgusting/annoying habits who will put up with my annoying personality.
The thought alone wears me out.

107 b_sharp  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:18:28am

re: #97 MandyManners

They'd rather die of cancer than not get an erection?

Man, men are weird.

Yes we are.

My dad chose to get radiation therapy rather than removal because he was afraid of losing his erection. When they did the radiation, they over did it and burnt his bladder. The damage wasn't found out until several years later when he started peeing blood and clotting up. They went and to take a look and found more cancer so they removed the prostate and bladder.

Had they simply removed the prostate, he wouldn't be walking around with a plastic bag tied to his leg now.

So, yes, for some men, the erection is paramount.

108 Gus  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:19:20am

Guess that was already mentioned.

110 b_sharp  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:19:57am

re: #101 MandyManners

Women rock.

Abso-frikkin-lootly.

If women didn't exist, men would have to invent them just to stay sane.

111 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:20:34am

re: #106 webevintage

Thanks...he is a keeper.

Plus he is properly trained.
I cannot imagine at my age having to go out and find a new one that does not have a whole host of disgusting/annoying habits who will put up with my annoying personality.
The thought alone wears me out.

I know what you mean. I've adjusted to the idea of never remarrying.

112 Renaissance_Man  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:21:03am

re: #102 webevintage

They are.
I was more worried about him dying and him more worried about sex.
WTF?
I could live without sex if we had to, but I'd rather not spend my next 30 years alone.

Some doctors I know have patients who are impotent following prostate cancer.

They also happen to know that those patients' wives continue to get birth control.

There's a lot of a man's id that is tied up in sexual identity. Losing some things may indeed be worse than death.

113 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:21:22am

re: #107 b_sharp

Yes we are.

My dad chose to get radiation therapy rather than removal because he was afraid of losing his erection. When they did the radiation, they over did it and burnt his bladder. The damage wasn't found out until several years later when he started peeing blood and clotting up. They went and to take a look and found more cancer so they removed the prostate and bladder.

Had they simply removed the prostate, he wouldn't be walking around with a plastic bag tied to his leg now.

So, yes, for some men, the erection is paramount.

Egads. Poor guy.

114 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:22:59am

re: #110 b_sharp

Abso-frikkin-lootly.

If women didn't exist, men would have to invent them just to stay sane.

And you'd have no one to give flowers to on Mother's Day.

115 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:23:39am

re: #112 Renaissance_Man

Some doctors I know have patients who are impotent following prostate cancer.

They also happen to know that those patients' wives continue to get birth control.

There's a lot of a man's id that is tied up in sexual identity. Losing some things may indeed be worse than death.

Whatever happened to freakin' loyalty?

116 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:26:03am

re: #115 MandyManners

Whatever happened to freakin' loyalty?

Indeed.
Just because you can't have intercourse does not mean your sex life is dead.
Or for that matter whatever happened to a good old fashioned vibrator?

117 webevintage  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:27:28am
118 Renaissance_Man  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:28:33am

re: #116 webevintage

Indeed.
Just because you can't have intercourse does not mean your sex life is dead.
Or for that matter whatever happened to a good old fashioned vibrator?

I appreciate that women may indeed feel that way, and more power to them for it. But a man is unlikely to agree. Instead, he's going to feel even more useless.

119 blueraven  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:30:46am

re: #109 Killgore Trout

On Fox, law prof Hasen dismantles argument that Sestak offer was illegal, slams network's "breathless" coverage (video)

And he is not the only one. Steve Moore of the WSJ, who never defends Obama, and Larry Sabato also appeared on FNC and said there in nothing to this. I am sure there are others too. But they have their agenda and will not be swayed.

120 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:31:22am

re: #118 Renaissance_Man

I appreciate that women may indeed feel that way, and more power to them for it. But a man is unlikely to agree. Instead, he's going to feel even more useless.


We are getting at something that lies right at the very core of the human male psyche: our "manhood", our "pride", our ability to spread our seed, etc.

it leads to a lot of seemigly irrational behavior on our part.

121 ryannon  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:31:25am

re: #116 webevintage

Indeed.
Just because you can't have intercourse does not mean your sex life is dead.
Or for that matter whatever happened to a good old fashioned vibrator?

Do you really want to know?

122 kingkenrod  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:31:36am

re: #109 Killgore Trout

On Fox, law prof Hasen dismantles argument that Sestak offer was illegal, slams network's "breathless" coverage (video)

Well, it's interesting that Hasen explains the Hatch Act as a law that prohibits the president from mixing the jobs of executive and party leader. If Obama offered an official position for a political act, that's just what he would be doing.

123 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:32:33am

re: #116 webevintage

Well, now.

124 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:33:20am

re: #118 Renaissance_Man

I appreciate that women may indeed feel that way, and more power to them for it. But a man is unlikely to agree. Instead, he's going to feel even more useless.

So I'll find some spiders for him to kill.

125 Summer Seale  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:33:51am

re: #116 webevintage

Indeed.
Just because you can't have intercourse does not mean your sex life is dead.
Or for that matter whatever happened to a good old fashioned vibrator?

It's been majorly upgraded and is now referred to simply as a Hitatchi. =)

126 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:34:02am

I mean, it's just a penis, for crying out loud.

127 sagehen  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:34:50am

re: #70 ryannon

The studios had run out of steam. At the same time, there was this incredible generation of actors and directors waiting impatiently in the wings. After the success of "Easy Rider", the studios began to give them the opportunity to work. It saved the studio's collective ass. Other factors came to bear later on which led to the progressive dismantlement of the studios. If I can find the references to that documentary, you might want to take a look: it's surprisingly good.

Television.

128 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:35:15am

re: #126 MandyManners

I mean, it's just a penis, for crying out loud.


And they're only shoes, for crying out loud...

There are some things neither gender will understand about the other.

129 bricko  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:35:37am

Its too funny that the job Clinton offered Sestak is not even available to him. The rules of the committee require that all members be NON GOVERNMENT employees. Since Sestak is a congressman...he cant be on the committee.

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

heh, as some say.

130 Racer X  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:36:54am
131 Racer X  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:37:40am

re: #126 MandyManners

I mean, it's just a penis, for crying out loud.

We think with it. It is the center of our world.
Deal.

132 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:37:47am

re: #128 ralphieboy

And they're only shoes, for crying out loud...

There are some things neither gender will understand about the other.

You can live without shoes, too.

133 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:38:22am

re: #131 Racer X

We think with it. It is the center of our world.
Deal.

There's a life beyond the penis.

134 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:39:47am

1983: Dennis Hopper blows himself up with dynamite, walks away.

Not even Hunter S. Thompson ever topped that.

135 ryannon  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:40:06am

re: #130 Racer X

Kia presents: A new way to roll 2010.


[Video]

Furry pron.

I don't see it replacing the Escalade.

136 freetoken  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:40:44am

Over on bloggingheads John Hawks, paleoanthropologist of UoW, and Christina Agapakis (Harvard student and blogger*) discuss genomics and the latest finds about Neanderthals. Interesting and well done.

Here's the link to Hawk's discussing Neanderthals:
[Link: bloggingheads.tv...]

Enjoy

*and a hot babe hiding under those glasses and bangs...

137 ryannon  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:40:49am

re: #134 Cato the Elder

1983: Dennis Hopper blows himself up with dynamite, walks away.

Not even Hunter S. Thompson ever topped that.


[Video]

He did, but he didn't walk away.

138 Racer X  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:42:27am

re: #133 MandyManners

There's a life beyond the penis.

Blasphemy!

139 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:46:26am

re: #137 ryannon

He did, but he didn't walk away.

He didn't intend to.

140 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:47:03am

re: #134 Cato the Elder

1983: Dennis Hopper blows himself up with dynamite, walks away.

Not even Hunter S. Thompson ever topped that.

What the fuck was he on?

[Video]

141 MandyManners  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:48:01am

I'm taking the horde to the pool. bbl

142 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:48:35am

re: #140 MandyManners

Heh. A chair.

143 ryannon  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:50:48am

Dennis Hopper talks about art and collecting:

144 blueraven  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:51:54am

re: #122 kingkenrod

Well, it's interesting that Hasen explains the Hatch Act as a law that prohibits the president from mixing the jobs of executive and party leader. If Obama offered an official position for a political act, that's just what he would be doing.

He also explained that a Presidemt wears two hats; one is leader of the party in addition to chief executive. Had the President summoned Sestak into the oval office and made him an offer that would be mixing the roles. He did not do that. Did you miss that part?

145 Gus  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:52:30am
The Hatch Act prohibits a federal employee from being a candidate for nomination or election to a partisan political office. He had to choose one or the other, but he could not choose both. The job offer may have been a way of getting Sestak out of Specter's way, but this also is nothing new. Many candidates for top Administration appointments are politically active in the President's political party. Many are candidates or are considering candidacy in primaries.

White House political operatives don't like contentious fights in their own party primaries and sometimes suggest jobs in the Administration for persons who otherwise would be contenders. For the White House, this is usually a 'win-win' situation, giving the Administration politically savvy appointees in the Executive Branch and fewer contentious primaries for the Legislative Branch. This may not be best for voters who have less choice as a result, and Sestak thus should be commended for saying 'no'. The job offer, however, is hardly a 'bribe' when it is one of two alternatives that are mutually exclusive.

Richard Painter
Former chief ethics attorney for President George W. Bush

146 Racer X  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:56:37am

Bored.

Gonna watch a good movie.

Stephen Chow - God of Cookery Part 1

147 Gus  Sat, May 29, 2010 11:58:07am

Hmmm, getting a reading on my Troll Meter 2000™.

148 blueraven  Sat, May 29, 2010 12:48:10pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Hmmm, getting a reading on my Troll Meter 2000™.

Interesting, do tell.

149 Mr.Boots  Sat, May 29, 2010 1:05:46pm

re: #58 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Notably last week... Chris Matthews and James Carville gave the President hell!

Chris Matthews made a bigger jackass of himself than when he is sucking up to Tom DeLay. Demanding that Obama order all supertankers around the globe, regardless of flag or registry, to report to the Gulf and start sucking up oil under threat of never being allowed to do busines again with the US. No mention of the legality and logistics of doing this. Just hysteria on Matthews part. 24/7 corporate news is going to get even worse if all the hosts start whining and crying hysterically as a steady diet

150 swamprat  Sat, May 29, 2010 3:09:14pm

re: #32 Obdicut

The funniest-- and saddest-- part to me is the otherwise reasonable people who join in on this sort of thing out of a dislike for Obama or opposition to 'lefties' in general.

There are substantial areas to criticize Obama on. I don't understand why reasonable people are letting the morons lead the charge against him, and I really don't understand why they're following those morons, time after time again.

Yeah, right.
You down-dinged the guy who posted the story about SEIU intimidating a private citizen. I would like to know what issues you have with Obama, or with the Democrat party.

151 dr. luba  Sat, May 29, 2010 3:35:51pm

re: #86 webevintage

"So what should men do?
Is a manual exam still the best choice?"

Sit down and discuss it with your doctor. If you're old enough for a PSA you probably have an internist, and he/she should be up on the risks involved vs. the benefits. It depends on your risk factors, age, health, etc.

I had an elderly uncle who had an early prostate Ca picked up by PSA testing. He ended up getting treated for it, and the treatment made him incontinent. He had been quite active before, but became a recluse because of the incontinence. His last years were miserable and lonely.

We (the medical profession) went overboard with PSA testing when it first came out. Sort of like all those women who got CA-125 screening at health fairs--it's a useless test altogether. Rarely picks up ovarian cancer, but there are lots and lots of false positives for benign conditions. OB/GYNs (and others) have stopped doing it in low risk individuals as a screen. There simply is no good screen for ovarian Ca.

Similarly breast Ca. I put off my first mammogram until age 50, because there is no significant benefit before that time. And there are now upper age limits for breast screening, at least in other countries--after a certain age, the sorts of cancers that get picked up with mammography are very unlikely to kill you before you die of something else.

152 tigger2005  Sat, May 29, 2010 4:41:18pm

What the right wing is doing is almost exactly what the Left did during the Bush years, only worse. And remember how proudly they proclaimed themselves the "adults," the ones who operated on reason, facts, and evidence, the ones who saw the world "as it is" instead of through rose-colored glasses? Remember the pride they took in fact-checking, in catching the Left (especially the media) being willfully gullible? Remember the "24-hour rule"?

I guess this stuff only works one way. Wait, no, it doesn't. When you don't apply the same rules to yourself that you demand from your opponent, it means you're cynical and completely lacking in integrity.

153 abolitionist  Sat, May 29, 2010 6:27:36pm

re: #131 Racer X

We think with it. It is the center of our world.
Deal.

And computer code is just ones and zeros. Just arbitrary symbols.
/

154 joest73  Sat, May 29, 2010 7:05:22pm

While I think that bringing up the word "impeachment" is going way to far, I think it proves to everyone that President Obama isn't anything special. He is just another politician. The funny thing for me is that he in many ways is becoming the George W. Bush for the Democratic party. President Obama proclaimed that he would have a more transparency than previous administrations. So far his administration has been anything but transparent.
President Obama campaigned in New Orleans promising that he would never let anything like Katrina happen again and now those words are coming back to haunt him.

When you promise perfection you are setting everyone up to be disappointed.

155 joest73  Sat, May 29, 2010 7:09:40pm

re: #152 tigger2005

What the right wing is doing is almost exactly what the Left did during the Bush years, only worse. And remember how proudly they proclaimed themselves the "adults," the ones who operated on reason, facts, and evidence, the ones who saw the world "as it is" instead of through rose-colored glasses? Remember the pride they took in fact-checking, in catching the Left (especially the media) being willfully gullible? Remember the "24-hour rule"?

I guess this stuff only works one way. Wait, no, it doesn't. When you don't apply the same rules to yourself that you demand from your opponent, it means you're cynical and completely lacking in integrity.

To be fair the right did the same to Clinton....and the left did the same to Reagan. Anyone notice that all of this "gotcha" reporting started to increase with the birth of cable news?

156 RogueOne  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:52:56am

re: #49 Renaissance_Man

By the way, Rogue responded to that bit about 'private hospitals' last thread. Apparently his current story is that he meant 'private hospitals' to mean hospitals that have a private membership list, that are run like a private club. As if, somehow, that were relevant to the discussion.

I see you're still having a problem with the difference between "public access" and "private". Maybe you should step back and read a book. Just a thought.

157 RogueOne  Sun, May 30, 2010 4:59:04am

re: #156 RogueOne

Oh, and I'm still waiting for one of you two to tell me the name of a private hospital in this country. I noticed that little question still hasn't been answered. Keep up the nifty tap dancing though, It's mildly amusing.

158 Obdicut  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:01:20am

re: #157 RogueOne

This is getting sad, Rogue. A private hospital is a for-profit hospital, not a publicly funded hospital. Hell, you can even make the argument that non-profit hospitals that don't receive government funding are private vs. public.

Your attempt to claim that what you mean by 'private' is 'having a private membership list' is a really pathetic dodge.

159 Obdicut  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:07:36am

re: #150 swamprat

Yeah, right.
You down-dinged the guy who posted the story about SEIU intimidating a private citizen. I would like to know what issues you have with Obama, or with the Democrat party.

We've done this dance before, Swamprat.

Obama's support for biodeisel and cap-and-trade are both bullshit, since those won't actually help with AGW at all. Although Obama has been quite good at transparency, he's still been far from ideal and could be doing a hell of a lot more to open up government, especially his use of the 'state secrets' defense.

Obama has done nothing and said nothing about the state of prisons in the United States, which is both a incredibly large draw on our budget and a human rights problem in and of itself; the talk about the rights we give to prisoners of war or captured terrorists is ironic in the face of how bad we are at protecting the rights of prisoners or even preventing prisoners from committing crimes again.

Speaking of the SEIU, the proposed fix to the corporate contribution to political ads bill exempted unions-- that's an obvious and craven political move by the Democrats.

There's a lot of reasons, from all over the non-existent political spectrum, to criticize Obama.

Your continual attempt to paint me as hyperpartisan is boring and tedious; try not to interpret everything I do from your already-made conclusions, and we might not have to do this tedious dance every few weeks.

160 RogueOne  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:11:35am

re: #158 Obdicut

Another nice pirouette. I was discussing access to a private organization. I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand. My guess it isn't but since you can't back up your claim that there are private hospitals that don't accept any federal funds in the U.S., notice I didn't say non-profits, and that limit access you'll continue your little linguistic tap dance. I'll tell you what, I'll let it drop if the next time this argument comes up you don't try to use the same strawman.

161 Obdicut  Sun, May 30, 2010 8:17:36am

re: #160 RogueOne

I already provided you the name of hospitals that don't take federal funds in the US, Rogue. There are plenty of private, for-profit hospitals in the United States, not to mention tons of private, for-profit doctors operating clinics and doctor's officers.

It's nice of you to offer to drop the issue that you're trying to dance away from, but I'm really okay with keeping up with it.

Even if you do claim that 'membership lists' are what you meant, than how on earth is a doctor who decides on an individual basis whether or not to take on a new patient not essentially forming a membership list? You know, when you call and you ask if the doctor is taking new patients?

162 amrafel  Mon, May 31, 2010 1:24:04am

I would make little ado about this Sestak case if the answers given by Sestak and the answers given by the White House didn't contradict each other on at least three occasions:

• White House: "White House staff did not discuss these options with Congressman Sestak."
• Sestak: Replied "Yes" to the question "you were offered a job by someone in the White House?"

• White House: "It has been suggested that discussions of alternatives to the Senate campaign were improperly raised with the Congressman. There was no such impropriety. "
• Sestak: Replied "Yes" to the question "Were you ever offered a job to get out of this race?

• White House: "It has been suggested that the Administration may have offered Congressman Sestak the position of Secretary of the Navy in the hope that he would accept the offer and abandon a Senate candidacy. This is false."
• Sestak: Replied "No comment" to the question "Was it Navy Secretary?", when a simple "No" would have sufficed. In a separate interview, MSNBC says that Sestak did confirm the offer of the Secretary of the Navy position. See: [Link: www.eyeblast.tv...]

Googling on "Sestak Timeline" was helpful to me.

163 Walter Hudson  Mon, May 31, 2010 1:32:38am

You'll have to forgive me, as this is my first post and I am a guest in foreign ideological territory. For those of us incapable of discerning how your accusation of trumped up charges is self-evidently true, perhaps you could detail how. What charge has been made in the Sestak affair that is not true?

The Boy Who Cried Wolf comparison is interesting. On the surface, the moral of that story would seem to be one ought not raise false alarm, lest a true emergency occur. However, there is another way of looking at it. The villagers assumption that the boy was lying, when in the end he was not, endangers their flock as much as his. Even if there is some track record of "bogus accusations" (which I am not conceding), assuming there is nothing substantive to any new accusation is hardly wise.

164 Manfish97  Mon, May 31, 2010 7:12:42am

The Left hope to play the Ostrich game and hide their heads in the ground hoping this will go away but it will not. This event was not created by the Right but by Sestak who blurted the attempted political bribe to Larry King. The Left can try to paint this as nothing more than just business as usual in Washington - which I'm sure it is - but it's still unethical in the least and possibly even illegal.

Even the Huffington Post on 5/29/10 sees this for what it is;

AP/Huffington Post - Forced to disclose backstage political bargaining, President Barack Obama's embarrassed White House acknowledged on Friday it had enlisted Bill Clinton to try to ease Rep. Joe Sestak out of Pennsylvania's Senate primary with a job offer.

165 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 31, 2010 11:15:00am

re: #164 Manfish97

It's already gone away, sorry. Another nontroversy bites the dust. Must be disappointing to have it happen again and again and again.


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